# Color profile(color munki)



## dkdesign (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi,

I tryed to make(Color munki) a profile for my printer(Epson 7515 aka 7510) with the default ink, on jpss paper, heated on polyester. I then found a picture, which i compaired it with, here is the result:









How come some of the colors are so far away? and how do you think i can fix it(what colors are off)?

Illustrator:
Rendering Intent: Perceptual

Pprinter settings:
quality: fine
Papertype: normal

Heat press:
Temperature: 375 F
Time: 30 seconds
Pressure: Heavy


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

These are not your typical Colormunki test charts. The Colormunki uses a pair of charts, with 50 patches each. 
The first set is always printed the same, the second set is "tuned" based on the results of the first. What model 
of the Colormunki are you using?

On your pictures, the colors (hue) are similar between the two, but the density and saturation are way different. 
You should try making a profile with standard paper first. Use that experience to help you make profiles for 
non-paper substrates, like cloth.


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## dkdesign (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks a lot for the reply.

I used the color munki own pictures, to make the profile:
http://oi43.tinypic.com/2mwi6bm.jpg
http://oi43.tinypic.com/10rilno.jpg
The pictures in my first post, was to show you guys, how it looks - Didnt use them to calibrate the printer.

model number: CMUNPH

I tryed with normal paper and the above settings, but one thing i might have done wrong before, was i chose "Automatic" under color control. I now tryed to make a profile with both that and also "No color adjustment", which i watched a youtube video, that i had to choose and here is the result(compair with the picture in my first post) of the "No color adjustment" : http://oi39.tinypic.com/3144a6a.jpg Im new to all this, but you said that Hue is correct, but if you look at the 2. top right colors, there is magenta/blue on the left picture in first post and in the right, its more greenish?

What do you think is going on? the file im using to compair screen pc with paper, is a tiff file i found..


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Many of the colors are close in hue, but not all. You can't just take a random example of the 
chart and compare, because you don't know what type of printer made it. If you have a 4-channel
printer (which you do) you're not going to get all the colors you see on a chart made with a 
6- or 8-channel printer. 

Sorry I can't help you more than this. The ColorMunki I've used made TOTALLY different color charts
than the ones you're showing. Either they've changed how the product works, or you're not printing
with the right charts. Do a Google or Bing image search for 'colorMunki chart' and you'll see what I
mean.


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## dkdesign (Apr 9, 2012)

The forum wont allow me to add photos in MEDIA /MEDIA tags. Thats why you couldnt see the pictures in my last post and didnt see i used the same charts as you talk about  I have updated my last #3


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

If the ColorMunki can read the strips back -- the column will turn red if it can't -- then the colors are close
enough to make a profile. 

Complete the profile, do a test print, then maybe run the optimization if you want to improve the profile. 
Do this for a paper profile and when you're happy with the results, you can spend the time and effort 
doing it for JPSS. Just remember to profile the printed and transferred image.

Back to the colors you're getting in the sample on the left: Again, many of the colors are close in hue, but the 
problem is that they lack density/saturation. You can also see -- especially in the blues -- your printer just
doesn't have the gamut to produce the subtle levels you can see in the other chart. This is the major limitation
of 4-channel printers. This is why photographers work with 6-, 8, and even 10-channel printers. These
better printers are able to produce a wider spectrum of colors.

That said, there are ways you can help reduce the "squashed" levels by fiddling with the gamma, exposure,
and other controls in your graphics program. Mike Parrish here is an expert at this, and hopefully he will 
chime in with some suggestions for you. You would try these techniques only after you create your profile(s).


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## dkdesign (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks for taking your time helping me. Guess others will find this helpfull down the road.
I tryed to optimize the below results, but it didnt help. I went and found a vector cmyk color chart:
[media]http://oi40.tinypic.com/2drw8jk.jpg[/media]
Vector file etc.
and here is the results:
[media]http://oi43.tinypic.com/2d17ki8.jpg[/media]
What do you think?

"Just remember to profile the printed and transferred image." why do i need both?


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

You're doing this the hard way. Vector CMYK color charts are pretty much useless for what you want to do.
If you want to do vector color matching start in the reverse by printing a color chart, then using the *result*
as guide colors. Use RGB for your document. The fact that your printer uses CMYK is irrelevent.

You should instead use a *BITMAP* RGB test photo, and compare. This one is a good place to start

DOWNLOAD PDI TEST IMAGE Photodisc Color Management Calibration Target Reference Image Baby Faces How To Achieve True Print Color

As I pointed out, you will never EVER get 100% match with the color chart, even with a profile. Your printer
simply does not have the color accuracy. You need a printer with more color channels.


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## dkdesign (Apr 9, 2012)

I have to show what #colors the customer can have on their clothes. Lets say my monitor is perfect in colors - how do i know what colors i can print, just as they are on my monitor? is there a way illustrator etc. can make it easy for me? i will mainly be offering vector graphics/solid colors on my clothes


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

The solution is pretty simple, when you think about it. Just print out your swatches onto fabric using
the JPSS. Mount them on some plastic or heavy cardboard. Under each swatch can be the name of the
color. They pick the color they want. Since you produced the color using your printer and JPSS, you
know it's now reproducible.

Some customers may want to specify Pantone colors or something like that. It's unlikely you'll get target
colors to match, even with a higher priced printer. Avoid having them select colors from anything but your own 
custom swatches. 

There are too many variables involved with heat pressing colors onto fabric. Even with your own custom 
swatches warn your customer there may be slight color differences, due to manufacturing variations. This 
is a common practice phrase used in the printing business, and it applies to textile printing like it does to 
any other.

As for what the colors look on your monitor, that's not important, if your customers have selected what they
want from your swatch book. Even expensive monitors have a tough time reproducing printed colors. How do
you match texture, light reflection, and other such physical things on a monitor? The answer: you can't.


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

You're getting into the black magick part of printing!

Your monitor (RGB) produces colors in a totally different way than almost ANY printer. Monitors produce colors by "subtract" 3 colors (RGB) from perfect white. Printers "add" 4 colors or more to create a muddy black.

As such, your printer can not print what your monitor can see.

What we do in-house is we use a much more expensive calibration system than the one you use ($3000 to start, I think). We calibrate every printer's maximum color gamut as best as possible. This also creates an ICC file for that printer, on each particular media we print on.

We also color calibrate our monitor, based on the lighting expected at that monitor position. This also gives us an ICC profile for the monitor.

When we import those ICC profiles into our design programs (say, Photoshop), we use a feature that lets us show a "color proof" of what the printed image will look like, on the screen. It is VERY accurate. People bring us some crazy RGB designs, when we open them up and show them the color proof, they freak out! "Where did my blues and reds go?" Well, those are unprintable colors!

What you can do is get really, really close. For DTG, we don't color calibrate AT ALL. We have a few shirts with color swatches: one with 6x11 colors of the rainbow, then one 6x11 of blues, one 6x11 of reds, etc. We know what the RGB value of each of those colors was, so people can actually pick a particular color.

When it prints, it's close, but what we see on the screen can be WAY OFF. Especially light pinks and light blues, as well as saturated blues and saturated reds.


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## dkdesign (Apr 9, 2012)

@GordonM Im not showing my colors IRL/offline. They will be shown on my website, where they can pick out what they want. So i guess i have to print a chart and find out what colors are close - guess i can do what treefox mentioned, to use "color proof", well i have to test it now, how close it is to the correct colors.
"Just remember to profile the printed and transferred image." why do i need both?

@treefox2118 thanks for joining in  I will look more into "Color proof" and if i can work out, exacly what colors i can offer.. but i have to get colormunki to work also. Colors are so way off.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

There is no way to guarantee color fidelity on other people's monitors, so why even try. Look to see how
other people sell their product on their Web sites. Do any of them say, " We guarantee the colors exactly
as you see them"? Of course not, so you need to find language that allows you to operate within the
color space you have with your equipment. 

Look for ways to prepare your customers that the colors as shown on their monitor may not be exactly what
they'll get. If you're in a business where you must color match to known standards, like Pantone, you're using
the wrong printer. You need to upgrade to one with a much wider gamut. You will also not likely get what
you want with JPSS. It's not a material that can faithfully reproduce all the colors of the rainbow.

The ColorMunki can help you calibrate your monitor, so that at least you know the colors as defined in your
graphics program as shown properly. You can try to carefully match back the printed colors to swatches you
create for display on your Web site, but that still won't help your customers, who may see very different
colors on their (likely uncalibrated) monitors.


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