# Cutting and Rhinestone systems available by Accugraphics



## sjidohair

Hey Guys there is a new machine out to Cut RhinestoneTemplates, It is Called the Eagle Ultraforce,
If anyone was at the Florida show you may have seen it,, that was its Premier,, I just had one delivered to day, it will work with usb, and vist 64 amd.
As i unpack it I will give reports on this machine, and the software, the software comes in the package, but I think it can be bought alone, if someone already has a cutter,, 
When i got the machine, I was told, no need for corel or adobe that you can design in the software,
So I will let you know,, and also the downforce, as I unpack all this info will be in there, i will also post pictures for you of a template cut, so you can see how it cuts,, I am like a kid in a candy store, so gotta go and start unpacking the EAGLE..
Sandy Jo


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## lizziemaxine

Do they have a website so we can get information while you are unpacking and testing?


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## sjidohair

Lizzie, 
I will get all that info for you on monday,, 
I loaded my software that came with a dongle, and it loaded in my vista like a dream, and them asked if i wanted to load all my fonts in , from my computer,, I had over 2000 fonts, i had no idea, when done i opened the program, and they were all there, loaded in,,
the software, looks like corel or adobe and flexi, all combined,, it looks like you can create, an cut from same program,
I played just a few seconds (because it was 3:30 am, ) and i had to do payroll yet,, but i found my rhinetone circle and spaced it how i wanted it and blended it to the line in like 3 seconds,, 
I have a ton to discover ,, I have a session with the tranier on Monday, where they can get into my computer and show me while talking on phone,, 
which i love,, 
i will keep you all posted,, and get you guys some important info to check it out yourselves.
this could be very interesting, and I have not even plugged the machine in yet,, lol
Everything went smooth as butter so far.
Sandy jo
MMM


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## RolandASDRick

Who is the cutter manufacturer? I searched the web and can't find information on an Eagle Ultraforce anywhere. Also, how much does one of these systems cost?


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## sjidohair

This machine is brand new,, i mean, I can smell the newness, 
so dont be alarmed, if you cant find the info, I will get that to you asap, i just need the right info from the Manufacturer, 
I recieved one of the first ones, as when i was searching for a unit last fall, I heard about this one being built,, and waited,, 
Here is the info I have so far,
I will get more,
dont forget to check out the downforce,, woweeee
I am not gonna put the price on here , as i dont think i can but it is less than anything i have found, cutter and software.
it does have 4 clamps very sturdey metal , and it can contour cut.
Here is the info, the software designs and cuts all in one, there is a vectortizing wizard in it, I have not had time to play with yet..
I have been learning the software, before i start to cut.








*ACS EAGLE Ultraforce 24" Cutter*

*Shipping Weight: *

53.00 pounds 

*Image shown with optional stand



*A Cutter Like No Other:*
Comes with ACS Design Studio software -- A full design application with additional rhinestone motif template design cutting ability.
The ACS Eagle has 1500 grams of force for cutting thicker materials, such as tackle twill, styrene, motif rubber and lots more. This system can also cut all the standard sign and decal vinyls, T-shirt transfer materials, light woods and plastics. It can even engrave on metals with our optional engraving tool!
*Media Width:*28"*Max Cutting Width:*24.5"*Operating System:*Windows (32 & 64 bit) or Mac (with Emulator)*Interface:*RS232 / USB*Motor Drives:*MSD*Language:*HPGL / DMPL*Down Force:*Up to 1500 grams*Precision:*.025mm*Repeat Accuracy:*<+ 0.1mm*Input Power:*AC 90 - 240V / 50Hz - 60Hz*Work Enviroment:*5°C - 35°C / 30% - 70% Humidity*Support:*Desktop / Stand Optional*Size / Weight:*24" x 34" / 14Kg*Positioning System:*LED Contour Cut*Buffer Memory:*Repeat Function 4mb


I will get the website so anyone who want to check it out can,
Sandy Jo


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## sjidohair

i will also post my cuts, first on vinyl, and then a template when i fire it up,, 
Sandy Jo


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## martinwoods

Hey Sandy when you get time can you let me know where I can get more info and who sells this machine. I have been interested in getting one for quite sometime. I had looked at smart designs but I know you had said a while back you were getting one so I wanted to wait to see what happened with it.
Please let me know as soon as possible, I am very interested in knowing more

Thanks


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## sjidohair

Yes i will,,,I will get that info asap
Sandy jo


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## silver6fox

The cutter you got is the next step from my KNK 900Grams force which is big in the arts & craft trade it is also sold as Foison you will be vary happy if is as good as they are, I am .


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## sjidohair

Ok , I have come up for air, and here is the info i know so far,, 
this machine has 1500 grams of force,
Is a Vinyl cutter plotter
Engraver with optional engraver tool
laser cutter for contour cutting
usb 64 bit compatable,
comes with software, for design and cut in one program,
Wow what a workhorse,, it is running so smooth,..
Sandy Jo


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## mrdavid

Hay sandyjo is this where you got it Ioline Crystal Press Motif Maker just checking


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## sjidohair

Hey Mr DAvid,, Nope wrong machine,,, 
it is posted in the post right above yours,, follow the eagle, and click on it,, it will take you there.
Sandy Jo


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## sunnydayz

I see that machine is also available at this site Buy-ACS.com: Rhinestone System.


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## sjidohair

yep,, same one,, It is so pretty,, lol
thanks bobbie lee
MMM


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## martinwoods

Hi Sandy
Do you have any pics of the stuff you have done with the machine or have you not gotten that far yet?
I am anxious to see what can be done and how easy or hard it is going to be

Thanks
Teresa


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## sjidohair

yep i do..
here are some pics,, 
It was very easy to set up,,


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## martinwoods

sjidohair said:


> yep i do..
> here are some pics,,
> It was very easy to set up,,


 
Thanks Sandy
How long does it take to make a template? and then you just press it on the shirt correct?
can you use any rhinestones??

Thanks again for the quick reply


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## sjidohair

YOu have to design your template,, which is not hard once you get the hang of it,, then you cut it,, while my eagle cuts i get my stones and table ready, it comes off the cutter, and then you weed it.
put in on a backer board,, everybody uses different stuff, the template material has a glue on the back, to you can stick whatever you want on the back so the stones dont fall thru.
some like a really stiff back and some like a flexible back, so use what is cheap and you like to work with,
When you cut your holes you cut them for the size of stone or stud you want to use. these templates, in my pic have some 6ss and 10ss,, 2mm and 3mm holes. YOu set your software up, to cut a lil bigger than the stone or stud so when you put your Hotfix tape over it,, it doesnt want to stickin the whole.. .
The Transfer itself you just dump a pile of Rhinestones or Rhinestuds on the template and swish them in there with your Template tool.
maybe 50 seconds, but this templates is reusuable for a very long time, I have not worn any of mine out..
If you need any more help, just ask.
Sandy Jo


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## sjidohair

YOu can use any Rhinestones as long as they are the right size,,, 
I wasnt sure if I totally answered that,, or not,, 
Sandy Jo


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## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> but this templates is reusuable for a very long time, I have not worn any of mine out..


Thanks for such a good description, Sandy Jo. 

How old are your templates, and how many transfers would you estimate you've done with the most used one you have that you can still use? Thanks.


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## sjidohair

Kelly the ones in the pic are brand new this weekend, but my oldest template was proble cut in Oct,, Bride and Bridesmaid.. I have used the bride probe 200 times and the bridesamaid 1000.
I am sure after a period of time the material might break down, but i have no signs of it, so far,,
Kelly love your green shirt,, 
here is my shirt for st pattys day


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## sjidohair

shoot, I sent without,, doing the pic,, 
I do that all the time,, 
let me try again,, lol
hey kelly i put yo on my twitter,,,


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## Girlzndollz

Thanks, Sandy Jo. =)

Love the Irish shirt, I have a cousin that absolutely prides herself on being an Irish princess. She'd trample over me to get to that shirt!  Thanks for the kudos on the TSF shirt. For real life, I have an old, old, Irish Girls shirt I wear. Something about being fabulous at just about everything, and humble to boot.  It's a fun one! 

That is awesome reusability on the templates. I didn't think they'd go that high number of times to be re-used. 

Twitter, I'll have to go on there more.. see what's a happening!  Thanks again for the info. Good stuff. =)


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## sjidohair

Kelly let me know if you want to make her a irish princess shirt, I have the template cut,, and ready to throw some stones, in,,,
i will wear this all year, i put it on a dark green sweatshirt,, the cool thing about these Rhinestone Templates, are , that You can put in whatever color of stone or stud you want,, when you want, as long as you use the right size,, of stone or stud..
I threw green in the middle,, cus, i liked the green stones.
Sandy JO


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## RolandASDRick

Looks like this system is very similar if not identical to what DAS sells (GCC cutter or Chinese made). How close can you place the rhinestones together without the stencil material ripping and what happens if the blade doesn't cut all the way through? Also, you say that the machine is low cost, but where you will spend the most money on is the stencil material and the backer material to place the stencil. It was also stated that the machine laser cuts, but the specification shows that it has an LED contour cut feature.


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## mrdavid

Hay Rick I think that the laser is like the laserpoint that Us Cutter uses and I think for production you will be in trouble that is why I don't counter cut with mine..


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## tfalk

Didn't see this particular setup at ISS over the weekend but I saw the Ioline... very impressed, particularly at the price they were offering.


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## charles95405

The ioline has two ways to put rhinestones one...one I saw was using the DAS system...on the ioline that has a flat bed feed...the other was an ioline machine that puts the stones on the backing sheet...very slow and needs attention during the process...The second one I would not choose


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## sjidohair

RolandASDRick said:


> Looks like this system is very similar if not identical to what DAS sells (GCC cutter or Chinese made).


Rick ,I can only tell you what I know,, As far as the Das system I choose not to get that system for a few reasons, It is a good system,there are alot of good systems, but my decisions were made by
1. the easy software usuage, with the Eagle, I only have one program , I dont need corel, or any other program.
2.force 1500 I have no idea if any other machines out there have that.I have no idea what i may be cutting in the future
3.The Frustration I have seen in other software with Rhinestoneing systems is not what i wanted , I am not super computer knowledgeable so I wanted something i could get cutting with fast
4.Expandable to engraver if i ever want
5.laser alignment (which i have not used yet)
6.Price is a few thousand below others
7. 4mg of memory instead of 1, to remember all those lil holes, nothing like getting into a few templates and all the sudden in the middel of the job, it quits, 



RolandASDRick said:


> How close can you place the rhinestones together without the stencil material ripping


 
Great question, with any Rhinestone software , the distance is what we program, it to do between rhinestones.
1.YOu can set them right next to each other and then the stone lines are all connected but you have to make sure and leave space for that stone to fall into the templates. if you crowd your Stones, they will not press well.
2.YOu can have a hairline space between the stones, and have them as close or far away as you want,, but when weeding if you are leaving a hairline just like with T-shirt vinyl or Sign Vinyl, becareful when weeding.



RolandASDRick said:


> and what happens if the blade doesn't cut all the way through?


If you dont have the blade cut all the way through you have the wrong force and it needs to be adjusted



RolandASDRick said:


> Also, you say that the machine is low cost, but where you will spend the most money on is the stencil material and the backer material to place the stencil.


Roland Rick, The machine is priced at a great price for me, with the software included.A Few Thousand less than i have seen other systems priced at.

Roland Rick, It sounds like you have cut some templates with some frustration, If I can help you,
Please ask , the template material you use is your choice, I use Sandblast stencil, and the material is comparable in price to speciality vinyl, so my cost is not high to make the Stencil. As far as the backer, i have seen poeple cardboard on the back, or folders from the dollar store, it is your choice.





RolandASDRick said:


> It was also stated that the machine laser cuts, but the specification shows that it has an LED contour cut feature.


Sorry about that,, it is a laser alignment system
for contour cutting I am just learning all this too 
Roland rick , I am still learning this machine, if I dont have all the right answers please follow the link to the poeple who sell them.
and if i can help you in any way,, ask, this machine like all the others may not be for everyone, But it is a awesome one for me so far, I am just sharing in my excitement of my New machine.



Thanks for asking all the Questions Roland rick, 
Sandy Jo


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## martinwoods

Do the rhinestone shirts hold up well in the wash???


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## sjidohair

I have been making Rhinestone Shirts with the Rhinestones and Rhinestuds from one supplier for over a year,, Chris, at www.Hypnotikwear.com
I only speak from what I use,,
I have not personally lost one stone,
I have not had a client lose one stone.
Martin, I will help you press and directions if you want. I am not saying it is the only, way,it is just the way I do it.
There are lots of Rhinestone sellers out there,the magic is in the Glue they use and the sparkle and facets on the Stones.
Hope this helps


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## RolandASDRick

Roland makes a solution that when all is said and done is about $4000 (machine + software). Roland R-WearStudio is a complete easy to use rhinestone application and includes over 500 rhinestone color and sizes to choose from (Swarovski library). The software also supports Roland's print/cut for integrated HTM w/ Rhinestones as well as the GX-24 cutter for CADCut w/ rhinestone embellishments. With the Roland solution you can cut the stones one next to the other without worrying about the material ripping because you're cutting a hard material. Also, because you're engraving the template you can use over the counter materials like MDF board that you can purchase at Home Depot or Lowes (about $10 for a 4'x8 sheet, which cut down would make 32 12"x12" sheets) and best of all you engrave on both sides of the material to get more bang for your buck (about $.10 per board), something you can't do with sandblast stencil material. So if you're selling the finished templates for the customer to use at say $30 the ROI (return on investment) is huge. Also, with the Ultracutter, in regards to engraving, you're only capable of diamond drag engraving on thin metals only, not true rotary engraving.

Just wanted to play devil's advocate. All the solutions seem to be nice solutions, just wanted to explain some of the drawbacks as compared to other systems out there. Have a great day 

BTW... I will be posting some videos on youtube in the coming weeks that show the difference between an engraved template and cut template for those who want to see for themselves.


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## martinwoods

I will say that I was very interested in the roland setup until I was SGIA speaking with some guys there and they basically said if I didn't buy the negraver they didn't want to speak to me because I would be wasting my money going the vinyl route

So I decided not to go that route. If they think the product is no good they should not be selling it, or if it was just the guys at the booth they should have someone else there that feels it is a good product. I know it was big turnoff to me the ways the guys talked at the booth, made me feel like I would be stupid if I did not go with the engraver.
JMO


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## sjidohair

Ok, I was impressed with my new Eagle,
But now I am even more, as I just had a online training session, one on one with the tech, he took over my computer and showed me things i have only imagined, in the rhinestone world, 
And the Techs are available, when we need them for support,,Now that is service.
I just hope in my T-shirt buisness ,that i give that kind of service.
Sandy jo


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## martinwoods

Glad it is working out well. I had looked at the digital soutions and the roland before you mentioned you were getting one, but like I said the Roland guys lost my business because of the way they talked at the show.


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## RolandASDRick

Martinwoods, I was at the SGIA show in Atlanta, wish I knew who you spoke with. When I provide demos I try to be as informative as possible when speaking about our advantages and disadvantages for the rhinestone application and the market in general. Sorry that whoever you spoke to didn't seem to want your business and hope that Roland can answer any future questions you may have should you reconsider.


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## sportkids

Hi Sandy,
How complicated is it, and to be point blank, how much was it? I have my own cutter, but honestly would just pay someone to make the templates. I am not good with learning new software. I looked at that DAS System. That is what I really would like, but I don't even know corel, and I know I would be in over my head, and there goes some more $$ down the tubes! thaks and can't wait to hear how it is going. what show did you get it at?


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## RolandASDRick

Sportkids, 
What cutter are you currently using?


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## sjidohair

Sportskids,
I got it at the florida show.
You do have to know how to run computer programs,, if you have never worked programs, I think if I were you, I would purchase templates or transfers premade and start learning now,, so you can do your own, in the future,,Do your homework, find out what kind of a system it is that you want, there are alot of great systems out there, i did my homework for a long time before my purchase, heck i made tranfers by hand forever untill i knew what machine and what software i wanted..
Take one step at a time, and I will help you in any way I can. I will post whatever i find out about this machine,, and software, if you have any questions or need help, please ask, we are all here to help everyone.
Sandy jo


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## Kleverrr1

Hi Sandy Jo,

Can you share what other things you learned from the tech person? Your system looks great !!! 

Thanks


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## sportkids

RolandASDRick said:


> Sportkids,
> What cutter are you currently using?


I am using a graphtec and flexi letter. i would like the shake and bake type for my own use. i do event vending on the weekend, and there usually isn't much time to reorder before I go out again.


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## martinwoods

RolandASDRick said:


> Martinwoods, I was at the SGIA show in Atlanta, wish I knew who you spoke with. When I provide demos I try to be as informative as possible when speaking about our advantages and disadvantages for the rhinestone application and the market in general. Sorry that whoever you spoke to didn't seem to want your business and hope that Roland can answer any future questions you may have should you reconsider.


Thanks
I have a roland 540 versacamm and a gx 24, I wanted to get started with something inexpensive until I could see if I could get more work for the rhinestones, however after talking to the person at the sgia show I was not very happy. He basically said we don't want to sell you anything if you don't buy the engraver and I said ok I guess you don't want my business and walked away.
Maybe they will learn from their mistakes because I was not the only person that walked away, I know of at least one other person that did also.


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## charles95405

Chris...I think the reason Roland did not want to sell something in vinyl cutter for Rhinestones is that there has been some disappointments (me included) in getting the GX24 to work with the DAS system. I had most of the stuff for the DAS system and before they came out, I had bought the EGX350..had it for about 18 months now. I bought the DAS system thinking I could do templates larger than 12x9, but found the GX24 was just not cutting as it should have been...in hindsight, I might have been using the wrong blade. I was using a 60 degree blade and consistenly getting partial cuts. I sold the Roland...got the Puma III and it works as advertised. Later I learned that perhaps to use the Roland you need a blade designed for flock. At the shows the vendors are often at the mercy of some employees who are not up to speed...sad but true. I must say that I have been dealing with Roland and Rick for 18 months and have had nothing but superb service.

The DAS system has its place as does the Roland engraver. I am not sure how the Eagle Force is going to do. I think that Sandy Jo is giving it a run through. One thing I have been told is the the software that comes with the Eagle is not going to be available separately in the near future.. long term out...maybe. So if the software is not sold separately, those of us with other machines cannot use it. Maybe Sandy Jo and confirm if that is right or not


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## sjidohair

Charles, Great post, as always,, 
I agree there are some great machines out there , and for all of us, that love doing these Rhinestones, we have plenty of options, Roland and Das are all great units. as well as the puma III cutters. And I am very thank full to be with all you guys so we can share, everything,.Charles I have no idea if the software will be sold separate or not,I was only interested, in the system for me,. but I am sure it would only take a email to the website to find out.
I will be here to help anyone that wants help, as I hope when i run into issues you will be there for me. That is how we all learn and share.
by the way anyone have any extra Swiss cheese, I am crock potting corned beef for reubens for st pattys day and they smell so good, I want to eat one, now,, lol
Sandy Jo


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## debz1959

RolandASDRick said:


> Roland makes a solution that when all is said and done is about $4000 (machine + software). Roland R-WearStudio is a complete easy to use rhinestone application and includes over 500 rhinestone color and sizes to choose from (Swarovski library).


Which macine are you referring to???


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## sportkids

I believe she called it Eagle Ultra Force. Haven't been able to find a website for it. I m interested in rhinestones period. Not too computer savy, always looking for something simple. Purchasing templates for me is probably the easiest and cost effective way. I probably would be wasting my $, unless I have someone sit down w/me side by side. I hate being a visual learner!


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## matchesc88

Thanks for the info


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## charles95405

I think the manufacturer's website 
Buy-ACS.com: Rhinestone System
The website seems to be a work in progress....I think they are located in Florida.

For Debz1955...I have the Roland EGX350 and R-Wear but I think the machine that Rick referred to as being around $4k with soft ware is probably the Roland EGX30A...specs found here: EGX-30A Desktop Engraver I have seen this machine in operation and is a very good unit...not quite as versatile as the 350 but nonetheless...a good system

I think when all is said and done...all systems work...all require some learning curve...so it really depends on what else you want to do with the system. The prices are pretty close. Looks like the total system costs will run from $3500 to around $5500


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## RolandASDRick

Roland EGX-30A ($3695) and R-WearStudio $499 ($299 when bundled with the EGX-30A). The $3695 is MSRP, so street price will typically be less. If you needed more speed and engraving capabilities, there's the EGX-350 @ $5795 MSRP, so under $6K you could have a machine that is capable of not only the rhinestone templates, but also of gift, signs, trophies, plaques, awards, and jewelry engraving to name a few. The Eagle Ultraforce is $3499 and the additional apps for it would be your standard cutter apps. and scribing of light metals with their optional engraving tool (no part number or price listed on their site). So, it really boils down to what other apps. you're looking to do.


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## RolandASDRick

If you're looking to get into this business and never done it before, it does pay in the end to be trained on the process and take a couple of PC classes to get up to speed on the lingo. An engraved rhinestone template on MDF board would cost me approx. $1-$5 to produce (tooling, materials and time) I can then turn around and sell the template itself for approx. $30-$50 (depending on demographics). That is a huge ROI, so definately something to think about.



sportkids said:


> I believe she called it Eagle Ultra Force. Haven't been able to find a website for it. I m interested in rhinestones period. Not too computer savy, always looking for something simple. Purchasing templates for me is probably the easiest and cost effective way. I probably would be wasting my $, unless I have someone sit down w/me side by side. I hate being a visual learner!


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## RolandASDRick

Problem with the Ioline is that it can ONLY do rhinestones and they built that machine to target the larger Auto Motif machines from Permaboss and Yongnam. The CrystalPress also is about $4500 for single hopper and $5500 for dual hopper configuration. When I saw this unit at the ISS LB show, the machine was missing quite a few stones and wasn't as fast as they claim it to be (at least at the show). Looks like if you're doing large runs, you need to keep an eye on it and keep the hoppers full of stones so it doesn't misfire. Also their software is not a true design and output program, so it is relying on Clipart, Corel or Illustrator for the designs which limits the customization behind making the templates. With a cutter or engraver solution, not only can you use it for Rhinestones, but also for a multitude of applications so you're not stuck with a unit with a single purpose in life. 



tfalk said:


> Didn't see this particular setup at ISS over the weekend but I saw the Ioline... very impressed, particularly at the price they were offering.


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## sjidohair

Yep, roland Rick is right on the Eagles price,, I also do not know how much the engraving tool, is but that would be the only upgrade, as far as i can see. I will ask when i call for my next support session.
I dont know what kind of engraver. it is, or how it works, but i am sure the webites have contact poeple to talk to as well.

Happy St Pattys day everyone,, hope you are all wearing green and some Rhinestones somewhere!
Sandy jo 
MonkeyMeMe


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## DTFuqua

Has anyone yet listed the material/resist that these systems are using to make the templates out of?I bought the 1.5 60 degree blade for my Graphtec cutter and it cuts some pretty small dots from the hartco sandblast resist. I did practice with my Corel Draw and figured out how to do the placement of dots using the brushes function, even posted a short and incomplete how to one time. Now I just need to know where to get what material for the plotter cut templates. Also, I have lost ONE rhinestone out of a couple of thousand. It wasn't the hot melt glue that failed. It was the glue that holds the crystal to the reflective backing. There is still a little silver dot there but the blue crystal is missing. Has anyone else seen any problems like that? Its on a shirt I did for Cathy (can't hand set the stones fast enough to sell for a reasonable price to anyone else) so I'm the only one that has noticed it. I guess its lucky it is right next to a couple of clear stones so its not sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb.


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## sportkids

there is a glue at the craft store that is a thin viscosity that works really well to replace 1 missing stone, and it won't budge. just be sure you have some very pointed tweezers. i will find out the actual name of the glue. (hope that is legal to post)


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## Girlzndollz

sportkids said:


> there is a glue at the craft store that is a thin viscosity that works really well to replace 1 missing stone, and it won't budge. just be sure you have some very pointed tweezers. i will find out the actual name of the glue. (hope that is legal to post)


By all means, feel free to share the name of the glue, with our appreciation. Thanks.


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## sunnydayz

DTFuqua said:


> Has anyone yet listed the material/resist that these systems are using to make the templates out of?I bought the 1.5 60 degree blade for my Graphtec cutter and it cuts some pretty small dots from the hartco sandblast resist. I did practice with my Corel Draw and figured out how to do the placement of dots using the brushes function, even posted a short and incomplete how to one time. Now I just need to know where to get what material for the plotter cut templates. Also, I have lost ONE rhinestone out of a couple of thousand. It wasn't the hot melt glue that failed. It was the glue that holds the crystal to the reflective backing. There is still a little silver dot there but the blue crystal is missing. Has anyone else seen any problems like that? Its on a shirt I did for Cathy (can't hand set the stones fast enough to sell for a reasonable price to anyone else) so I'm the only one that has noticed it. I guess its lucky it is right next to a couple of clear stones so its not sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb.



Terry, they have the material listed on the site here Buy-ACS.com: Rhinestone Supplies, for the template material. I am not sure if it is the same as the one that DAS uses, but it looks similar, the color of it.


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## DTFuqua

Thanks BobbieLee. I already went there just in case. It actually looks just like the Hartco sandblast resist I use for sandblasting. The one I use is 25 mil but they have a thicker one, 35 mil. I am planning on getting some of the material from acs.com someday and comparing it to the hartco sandblast mask. I will probably try out the resist I have just for kicks. But I'm getting a little short on time lately. Cathy takes a lot of time and attention and with the vinyl sign and T-shirts and I'm doing rustic type routed signs out of cedar plus now I found out about sandblasting. I have a good compressor from my auto restoration days and bought a pressure pot to try it out and now I want a cabinet. Something else I have to build. Sometimes I think I'll never do anything but try out new things and move on to something else. Maybe Cathy will get well enough to go to some markets with me so I can see if anything I'm learning to do will make any money. I hope so. I've spent a lot of money getting all these new toys and learning to use them. Still trying to get her moved to Florida for better medical care but having to wait on lawyers. Sorry about the long rant.
Terry


----------



## RolandASDRick

I would love to see some screenshots of the software to see what it's capabilities are and how easy the interface looks to use. Can you post a pic?


----------



## charles95405

I would agree with Rick about the Ioline rhinestone setter. I watched it in operation for some time at ISS, Long Beach. It was very slow...even slower than my EGX350 was BEFORE I learned it was slow because of operator error!...besides slow, it would miss a stone or one would drop off and needed to have an attendant standing by ...or at least while I was watching..

For Terry....I have seen some inexpensive sandblast cabinets at Harbor freight...probably not a lot more than the materials to build..


----------



## DTFuqua

Hi Charles. Thanks for the information. HF is where I bought the pressure pot. I went to look at those cabinets but they weren't big enough for what I want to do. I'm making signs that are 2' long and thats the small starting point. I hope to be doing glass and stone. My oldest son needs a head stone and I can't think of any better way to keep his memory than making his headstome myself. So I need one larger than the cheep one from HF. Besides, I'm a hardcore DIYer.


----------



## CustomRhinestone

Wow. The machine looks awesome. I was looking at DAS but I do metals too so I like the engraving option. Let me ask you a question because I am not familiar with using templates. Is it easy to do more complicated designs like designs that use multiple colors or multiple sizes. Most designs I use have 2-3 colors. I just don't know if it would work. I'd appreciate any info


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## sjidohair

Terry, 
I am sure that all your adventurer research will pay off, mine has,, and i too love that aspect of our business.
Keep doing what you are doing,, your work will show the love. 
sandy Jo


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## sjidohair

Customrhinestones, like most of the machines,, they can all place different colors of stones,, I have not used that feature yet,, I had a ton of orders come in in the last few weeks so i am not leaning all the extra fills and stuff yet, just using normal, stuff, at the moment to get my orders out,, and yes you can place different sizes in the same template as well.
Sandy Jo


----------



## charles95405

I can't agree more with RolandASDrick....you have to invest in proper training to learn your craft. If you invest a few thousand for a system...and not spend a few hundred to be trained is wasting time and money. With my Roland, I was a smart a$$ and could do it on my own..guess what....I couldnt and do it right...after two days at Roland University..things cleared up and now I have a happy camper...so no matter which system you choose...get proper training...you will glad you did

On a separate note about the Eagle UltraForce....I am disappointed in one aspect..that is that there is not a stand alone software that will work with other machines. I was told by one who should know that they do not have the windows specific drivers for other machines...but if you are just starting out and get this system....it will not matter to you


----------



## sjidohair

ok, guys just wanted to share my new toy update,,,
I have been so busy cutting templates that cut so clean,,,, the holes do not have to weeded out,, they stay on the backer,, paper,, it saves so much time,, i am totally in love with this machine just wanted to give a update,,,

ok now for the truth,, i on purpose have not read any directions, on the software and or the machine,, I wanted to see how hard it was in setting up and drivers connecting and stuff,,
I am now about to break out the directions to see what this machine can truley do,,,,,,, that i have not figured out by just going thru and looking and the vector wizard is awesome.... i do not see my self using inkscape or vector magic or photoshop any more for vectorizing..
Aandym i happy with my purchase,, oh yeahhhhhhh
Sandy jo


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## lizziemaxine

sjidohair said:


> Aandym i happy with my purchase,, oh yeahhhhhhh
> Sandy jo


Fabulous. Thanks for the update. I think I will take a look at this equipment.


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## sportkids

I like the part about the training, especially for the computer challenged like me. I would be happy to pay for side by side training. I am happy w/my craft robo pro, because of its size and I have the need to take it all over w/me on a plane. After the fact, Stahls said they would have gladly sent someone out to assist me had I purchased the Roland.


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## sjidohair

Here is a pic of a template after i just cut it and started to peel the Stencil material from the back, 
if you have the right force and the right speed, the dots stay on the paper, there are a few stuck to the back, as i layed it back on backer paper to run and grab a camera to show you guys . lol so i smushed em,, .
When i first starting cutting templates,, I weeded every hole untill i recieved my new machine. This will save me so much time , as every template has between 200 and 1500 holes.woohooo.
Sandy 
MonkeyMeMe


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## sjidohair

well i did it again,,
sorry, here is the pic,,


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## RolandASDRick

Is it possible to post some screenshots of the software? I can't find anything on the web that talks about it. Thanks in advance


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## sjidohair

Roland rick,
If you are interested in the software, I would contact the company as they will have all the info, so you can compare it to yours,,
And if you do, make sure and let us know what you think,,,
Sandy Jo


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## Kleverrr1

Hi Sandy Jo,

What settings did you use on you awsome machine to cut that template?

Force / Speed / Offset ??

Thank you


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## sjidohair

Chris, i will send it to you on pm,,, 
Sandy jo


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## agensop

hey sandy you do all the templates on your site with the eagle or do you have more than one system/machine you use. 




sjidohair said:


> Here is a pic of a template after i just cut it and started to peel the Stencil material from the back,
> if you have the right force and the right speed, the dots stay on the paper, there are a few stuck to the back, as i layed it back on backer paper to run and grab a camera to show you guys . lol so i smushed em,, .
> When i first starting cutting templates,, I weeded every hole untill i recieved my new machine. This will save me so much time , as every template has between 200 and 1500 holes.woohooo.
> Sandy
> MonkeyMeMe


----------



## sjidohair

I have 2 cutters,, i started my business with a different one, and had to write and create my own software to do what i wanted, it worked but is was hard,, and it took me 3 months to do all the software things., and weed every template.
This machine is my new toy,, I only cut templates on this machine at present,, but i also cut twill and cardboard and vinyl as well with the Eagle. I do not cut templates on my other machine,, I have not tried my software with my other machine as well. Once i get a port set up i like to leave em alone,, lol
I can have one machine going with vinyl, and the Eagle cutting templates, at the same time,one on a laptop and one on the desktop,, 
If i can help you with anything please let me know
Sandy


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## agensop

Does the table move back and forth or is it stationary. This is the first system since the DAS stuff that i have seen that interests me. Your templates are great by the way. I am trying to weigh what direction to go now *L* i was pretty set on going the das route until i saw this


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## sjidohair

the tables on the machine are stationary,, 
I understand the decisions between all the machines,, 
I have my reasons why i choose this one, I believe all the machines and software are good, My decisions was made on easy loading of software, hooking up to usb. and 64 bit vista,,tech support to get the info i needed when needed,if needed.
And the ablility to create whatever i can dream, not just create what they have created and i cut.
My abilities are in a lot of custom work, I would say 99 percent is Custom work.
I have a friend whom purchased another system at the same time i did, and we compared, apples to apples.. 
I am extremely happy with my purchase .
i also want the ablilty to cut very thick materials,, for sports teams out of denium, twill , ect,, 
I do not have the engraver attachment, Yet,, lol
Like i said choose the system that is right for you.
The Eagle is right for me.
Sandy Jo
MMM


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## agensop

oh i understand completely about choosing what right for you. i probably still with get the das system because i like their corel integration from start to finish which for me is HUGE. Just from the pictures i could not tell if the table was stationary or not.


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## sjidohair

that is one of the reasons, i wanted to eagle, i didn't want different programs,,
I tried doing a pattern in corel and pullin into a cutting program and it made my perfect circles,, 
eclipses,, not good for round stones,, lol
Let us see some of your work when you are done.
Sandy


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## sportkids

Hi Sandy,
Have any examples combining vinyl and rhinestones like you talked about?


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## agensop

hey sandy what do you use for artwork or do you do everything by hand???


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## sjidohair

I use the software that comes with the eagle,all one program,, I used to do it all by hand, not anymore, lol
the software will outline any font,, and fill any diagram and with different types of fills,
Fills are a solid Rhinestone design,
as i think most of the programs, it lets you set different size stones, in one template as well as different colors.
Sandy Jo
I will try to grab a pic of vinyl and rhinestone together,, for ya,,, there are different ways of doing this as well
1. you cut vinyl with the rhinestone area cut out and then take the Rhinestone transfer and set it in place, so it glues right on to fabric when pressed, and you actually see a lil of the fabric peekin thru on sides of stones,, almost makes it look like another color of vinyl outlineing stone.
2. some vinyl you can put transfer right on top of vinyl after you have pressed it and press again,, and it adhers well.
I have dont well with uscutters vinyl doing that,, and siser and easy weed..keeps less stones on and gives a 3 d look,,,, great for kids stuff... and sports lettering, I use the outlined fonts,, that are emty inside,, and lay stones in the empty area.
Sandy Jo
MMM

has anyone rhinestoned License plates?
and if so are you using the ultrasonic machines?


----------



## agensop

the software has images? and source material for your to start with?




sjidohair said:


> I use the software that comes with the eagle,all one program,, I used to do it all by hand, not anymore, lol
> the software will outline any font,, and fill any diagram and with different types of fills,
> Fills are a solid Rhinestone design,
> as i think most of the programs, it lets you set different size stones, in one template as well as different colors.
> Sandy Jo
> I will try to grab a pic of vinyl and rhinestone together,, for ya,,, there are different ways of doing this as well
> 1. you cut vinyl with the rhinestone area cut out and then take the Rhinestone transfer and set it in place, so it glues right on to fabric when pressed, and you actually see a lil of the fabric peekin thru on sides of stones,, almost makes it look like another color of vinyl outlineing stone.
> 2. some vinyl you can put transfer right on top of vinyl after you have pressed it and press again,, and it adhers well.
> I have dont well with uscutters vinyl doing that,, and siser and easy weed..keeps less stones on and gives a 3 d look,,,, great for kids stuff... and sports lettering, I use the outlined fonts,, that are emty inside,, and lay stones in the empty area.
> Sandy Jo
> MMM
> 
> has anyone rhinestoned License plates?
> and if so are you using the ultrasonic machines?


----------



## sjidohair

I was just contacted today that there is a update, already for the software, so i am not sure as i have not had time to contact them, I do know there will be designs with the software i just dont know if this is the upgrade with it or not,,
the software, gives you the tools to make anything into a design with your size of stones,, or any font, so you are not limited with fonts, There is a graphic cd that comes with the eagle,and fonts, so there are things to cut right away in eps form , and you can very easily convert those to the dot patterns,
I do see a area on the help buttom for downloads to graphics, as well. 
I also do Remember that there will be a site as well to purchase Rhinestone designs all ready to cut, too, for the more advanced Transfers.
I hope this helps and i am not confusing you more,, 
This program and machine are so new,, oh yeah i heard talk of a forum for help and support as well.If that is the case, you know i will be there to help
Sandy


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## plan b

agensop said:


> oh i understand completely about choosing what right for you. i probably still with get the das system because i like their corel integration from start to finish which for me is HUGE. Just from the pictures i could not tell if the table was stationary or not.


You can import directly from Corel Draw into this software, no problem. You can also cut leather patches with the machine.


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## sjidohair

oh and xara and sign blazer too,,


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## mrdavid

How long is the warranties on the machine and are there parts that you can get if some thing goes wrong..


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## agensop

2 years i believe..talked to the guy roger who owns the eagle ultra website



mrdavid said:


> How long is the warranties on the machine and are there parts that you can get if some thing goes wrong..


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## lizziemaxine

agensop said:


> 2 years i believe..talked to the guy roger who owns the eagle ultra website


Do you have a contact phone number or email for them?
I may be overlooking it, but I am not finding a way to contact them on their website.


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## agensop

check you Private messages



lizziemaxine said:


> Do you have a contact phone number or email for them?
> I may be overlooking it, but I am not finding a way to contact them on their website.


----------



## agensop

yeah i found out the crazy things people are using the machine to cut with am leaning toward this system slightly *L* 

i will still end up getting stuff from das though i plan on buying smart designer once i sell this g5.



plan b said:


> You can import directly from Corel Draw into this software, no problem. You can also cut leather patches with the machine.


----------



## agensop

i tried to use that initially and the form didnt work. but i found the email and mailed him directly. really nice guy.

i just hope i can have half the success when i get mine


----------



## sjidohair

if you cut vinyl and know converstion of jpg and vectorizing and eps files and all that, you will be able to creat in this program, or corel, or xara or inkscape or whatever you want,, 
When you get yours let me know and we will network,, it will be good to have another user to hang with,,
Sandy Jo


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## agensop

have never cut vinyl, i have to buy some *L* 

i have however figured out how to cut flock *L* so i been working on creating graphics with that and am learning that a good print font is NOT necessarily a good cut font.




sjidohair said:


> if you cut vinyl and know converstion of jpg and vectorizing and eps files and all that, you will be able to creat in this program, or corel, or xara or inkscape or whatever you want,,
> When you get yours let me know and we will network,, it will be good to have another user to hang with,,
> Sandy Jo


----------



## sjidohair

You are exactly right,, as it looks great for emborid, or for screening or anything but it can look nasty in vinyl if it is not the right height and width,,,
also same in Rhinestones and studs,, you need to pic your fonts carefully so that the letters remain looking like letters, and it has to be big enough and wide enough to alow the space it needs so it does not look crowded,,..
I will help you with all this, and you will also learn as you go, what works and what does not, you look at stuff totally differernt, because i screen print and tranfer and rhinestone and vinyl,, i look at things way different,, ok that will work ok that wont,, 
The learning curve for vinyl cutting is really in the programs and looking at things different, and having the time to invest in just sitting down and learning the systems and programs,,, 
this is my opinion,
sandy Jo


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## ashamutt

sjidohair said:


> well i did it again,,
> sorry, here is the pic,,


WOW! That stuff looks "thick & rubbery" ! lol!

Looks more "stable" than the templates that I purchased at the "going out of business" A.C. Moore sale! (you know, the real THIN see through kind of RS template!) 


I wish I had paid more attention at the ISS Orlando show!!!!


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## sjidohair

It is moveable, and works well for the templates,, and has adhesive on the backside for the backer piece you have to attach..
you can cut all kinds of material,, for sure, cardboard, wood, plastic stencil material, they all have there purpose, There is talk of some new material coming up, from a few sources... and one of them could be amazing,, and knock everyones socks off , if it behaves in the long run, there are few of us testing it now....
zip my lips,, I always give to much info,, lol
MMM
Sandy Jo


----------



## sportkids

how do you have time? and what is the quickest way you learn the software? i need to learn corel and will have 2 1/2 weeks in hawaii. (i won't be able to sit and do nothing, or be with/out my little mac.) any suggestions as to what the best method is? (i have a pc laptop for corel and flexi - that is my 1st problem!) i am a visual learner. i can buy all of this stuff, but I seem to not have the patience to figure it out. makes me need a margarita just thinking about it. atleast it is 6pm here!  the ice cubes are calling me!


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## agensop

I have learned a whole lot from the advancedartists.com tutorials. right now just using the free but i plan on buying the whole video set.


----------



## sportkids

i am going to check out their site. thanks!


----------



## siemed

Hi all,

I now use the Hartco sandblast paper and I have some problems. My cutting is deep enough, but the rounds stay attached in the sandblast paper. This means that I need to remove them all by hand. The rounds that I cut are almost perfect, but there is one little piece that stays connected. This is my problem. 
Maybe it is because I use it for the size SS06 and SS08. 
Wich sizes do you use and does anyone have the same problem?


----------



## sjidohair

I do not have that problem, it might have something to do with the force,, and the other settings on your machine,, 
as with most things there is a learning curve with software to create with and then the software to cut with, and also the settings on our machines, but once you have it learned , you are good..so hang in there keep trying different things untill you get it right it took me over 6 months to learn it all.... and then some new material or something else comes up, and we relearn all over....
Sandy jo

oh yeah the baby eagles name is Falcon..


----------



## charles95405

To correct the small hanging piece on cutting the circles...check the offset of your cutter. You don't say which system you are using or which cutter. I believe if you set the offset at .60..may a bit higher, this should correct the problem. Other settings..check your blade extension and your force..


----------



## DTFuqua

Which hartco? which cutter? what software?


----------



## siemed

DTFuqua said:


> Which hartco? which cutter? what software?


I'm sorry, I use Coreldraw to make my patterns and I'm using this Hartco Sandblast paper. My Cutter is an Puma II with a 60 degree knife.

So, if I understand you right, it may have to do with the right settings? On the Puma II (I think) you only can adjust the force and how deep the knife goes.


----------



## charles95405

you should be able to adjust the offset..


----------



## siemed

Thanks, I will try to do this. Just to clearify what I mean, I added a photo where you can see that the biggest round (ss16) has no problems, but the smaller rounds get worse.

So, I'm still wondering if some of you also use this sandblast mask for the smaller stones (ss08 and ss06).

Thanks again.


----------



## sjidohair

Yes, i can see you do not have round holes even on the large one it is not round but irregular shape.

It is not easy to cut perfect circles, and of all diffenent sizes, like i mentioned it earlier, it is not about getting the right soft ware, it is not about getting the right machine, it is learning each piece of equipment and software you own, and then working the 2 or 3 products together. to make a good system, as you have done, you will waste alot of material, and alot of time. some give up before they can figure it out, some stay with it.
I wish i could tell you what your puma is or is not doing, each of my machines,and different softwares are totally set up different, and when you get that set up then it is time to start trouble shooting blade depth and force.
I wish i could help you, further, please contact your software support or machine support poeple and show them the pic, one pic says thousands of words,
Back to the orginal questions, I cut 5 different materials, 2 of them are material similair to what you are cutting with my cutters for templates, and all circles are circles and are complete.
The only time i dont have to weed out every lil circle i cut, which is hundreds on each templates, is when i use the eagle and that machine i can just peel the front material off and peel the circles away.
with my cutters for templates, and all circles are circles and are complete.
There is a big learning curve to making these templates but once you have it setup , it is the most awesome thing.
Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## agensop

have you tried exposing your blade more?? i was having a flock problem like that and it was because my blade wasnt out far enough. also could be not enough pressure.


----------



## charles95405

with the GX24, some are using a flock blade...seems to work for them


----------



## DTFuqua

charles95405 said:


> with the GX24, some are using a flock blade...seems to work for them


Please elaborate on " flock blade" . Is it something besides a 60 degree blade? I understand there are 60 degree blades for both blade holders from Graphtec. I have the 45 degree blade for the blue topped holder which is a thinner shaft than the blades for the red topped holder which I bought the 60 degree blade for.( red topped holder was over a hundred bucks by itself) Can you see any limitations due to my equipment other than those of the operator ?


----------



## siemed

agensop said:


> have you tried exposing your blade more?? i was having a flock problem like that and it was because my blade wasnt out far enough. also could be not enough pressure.


[/quote]

I think that if I expose my blade more, it will cut deeper.
Or am I wrong? Could it be I have to lower the blade and give it less force? Because, now if I only lower the blade, it will cut trough the back of the material.

Thank you all very much for the reactions.


----------



## agensop

yes! thats what i meants sorry i didnt word it right



> I think that if I expose my blade more, it will cut deeper.
> Or am I wrong? Could it be I have to lower the blade and give it less force? Because, now if I only lower the blade, it will cut trough the back of the material.
> 
> Thank you all very much for the reactions.


----------



## sjidohair

my opinion is the holes will be the same no matter if you lower your blade or put more force on, it is in the setting or set up of your programs, talking to each other, to send the perfect circle to the cutter, unless it is a belt issue of roller issue,
MMM


----------



## DTFuqua

One thing I just thought of. Does this cutter use stepper or servo motors? I don't know about this particular cutter. The difference between stepper and servo motors ( not counting any variations in quality of said motors) is that stepper motor setups have no way of really knowing where the unit (blade holder) is and just assumes its where it was told to be. A servo motor on the other hand has an electronic means ( encoder strip ? )of knowing where the unit (blade holder) is. Just a thought. You know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Terry


----------



## charles95405

I am not sure of the nomenclature of the 'flock blade'....just that at the ISS show in long beach I was talking with Yolanda (I think) from Stahls ID direct and I complained that I sold my gx24 because of the small hanging bits...she took what she said was a 'flock blade' and cut perfect holes...I did not follow up as I had already sold my GX24...you might call stahls


----------



## agensop

also if you can, try a new blade ( your blade may be new just saying dullness could be an issue too that was part of it with my flock, new blade less pressure more blade)



> I think that if I expose my blade more, it will cut deeper.
> Or am I wrong? Could it be I have to lower the blade and give it less force? Because, now if I only lower the blade, it will cut trough the back of the material.
> 
> Thank you all very much for the reactions.


----------



## siemed

I did use a brand new blade (60 degrees), so this may not be a issue. Before I used this sandblast material I always used much thinner Sandblast material. This did work, but it was more difficult to keep the sontes in the cutted out rounds. The stones would easily slide out of the rounds. Over here (the Netherlands) there is no thicker material available. So, I did order the material at Hartco and let it ship to me. 

I used a 45 degrees blade withe the material I used before. The strange thing is, that with the 60 degrees blade the rounds are much smaller and now I have to alter the sizes of all my rounds? 

Now I did go back to the 45 degrees blade, with the new Hartco material. The rounds are again the bigger size and there is no more piece that is still attached. The only thing now is that the rounds are not that round. They are a little more square. I do not think this will be an issue.

Also, I'm only using Coreldraw and I send my job directly to the cutter. So I do not think that software (settings) may be an issue.


----------



## Winger61

I would like to get some feed back on the machine form anyone else that has bought this machine other than Sandy Jo (no offence).
How is the software as well.
I have the DAS system I don't like how there software does the fill.
I did have a demo with the Cams machine and really like it, but I'm not sure I want to drop down 20G's.

Thanks for the info


----------



## sjidohair

Steven, NO offense taken.
We are all here to learn,
Sandy Jo


----------



## sjidohair

I am actually wondering if I am the only ONE around that has purchased the eagle,, lol
Cuz nobody else is saying anything, and i would love to network with others that have this machine,, lol
sandy jo
ANYBODY OUT THERE!!!!!!!


----------



## agensop

Winger61 said:


> I have the DAS system I don't like how there software does


i am trying to get money set so i CAN buy atleast the eagle.

what dont you like about the das. i was planning on getting that until all this eagle/falcon busines....now i am just planning on possibly getting smart design.

-adam


----------



## priority1

We bought the DAS system after months of contemplating the options available. Our experience with them and our Smart Designer purchase 2 years ago sealed the deal. System is a breeze to learn, but please don't think doing more than a few designs a day is realistic. This sytem is awesome, but it is built for the "basic" customer. Don't get me wrong, we have cranked out over 80 templates in 3 weeks, and the requests keep piling up. Building a template is easy once you get the hang of it (and they provide AWESOME support). The fill option can be a little tricky, and I haven't mastered it yet. The hard part is doing 2 color (or more) designs. Taping, etc, can be a hassle. Our best selling designs are 2 color, and our initial process called for using 2 different size stones (so the smaller ones fall through the larger). However, working with 2mm stones can be difficult. We try and do all designs in 3mm.

Software setup, a couple of lessons online (I watched the videos on their site 4 times each), only ate up about 6hrs total. Take a vector image, transfer it over, and your in business. Learning which fonts work well and which do not has been a chore (but we kept notes, and I'm happy to share. Would also like input from others and the fonts you prefer). Overall, I'm blown away by the ease of the system, the support I've received, and most importantly the quality of the work that can be done. I'm sure all will agree that regardless of which system anyone uses, the end product is what is important.

From a cost standpoint the DAS system was extremely affordable. I wanted to do the Mesa equipment, but could not muster the strength to drop the large amount of cash. Sytem looks awesome, and they have been very helpful when discussing their system. Maybe someday. Until then, DAS works great.

If you learn the sytem, you can crank out templates a a very fast pace. The slow part is filling the templates with stones, setting the transfer paper, and pressing the garment. Shoot low when building your plan. I can comfortably press, peel, repress, and fold 60 garments an hour. I can also create a template (basic 5-10 minutes, medium 15-30 minutes depending on how many stones need to be moved). However, it is a slow process to fill the template, transfer paper, etc...... One color and one size of stones you can expect to do 20-30 transfers an hour (does not include pressing). 2 Color or 2 size stones you can plan on 5-10 minutes per transfer. Considering the revenue and margins on Rhinestone designs, the time is still well spent. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## lizziemaxine

sjidohair said:


> I am actually wondering if I am the only ONE around that has purchased the eagle,, lol
> Cuz nobody else is saying anything, and i would love to network with others that have this machine,, lol
> sandy jo
> ANYBODY OUT THERE!!!!!!!


 
I'm planning on buying as soon as I have the cash to pay for it, which I hope is soon.


----------



## tfalk

We're still on the fence, looking at the Eagle, the Ioline and the Roland software since we already have a GX24.


----------



## trendytee

I already have the Roland GX-24, so would I be able to use the DAS stone stencil software with the GX-24 cutter? Is anyone currently doing this?


----------



## charles95405

According to Dana, manager of the Roland vinyl cutter section...I think...says you can cut templates in vinyl using the GX24 and the latest version of their R-Wear program..If so you could do rhinestone templates for about another $500...sure would save you a lot of money!... Incidently I have both the DAS system and the EGX350/R-Wear from Roland


----------



## DTFuqua

I now have a reason to regret my decision to go with the Graphtec instead of the Rolad (cutter).Ya'll really know how to make a person feel good. What you guys at Roland need to do is to make drivers for my Graphtec . NOW!!!!!
Please!


----------



## Stitch-Up

What's wrong with copy & paste from R-Wear directly into Corel? Saw it done yesterday and cut on a Graphtec.

John


----------



## agensop

i thought rwear wouldnt work with anything except the a roland cutter?...is that not the truth? 

roland cutter or roland engraver otherwise....NO SOUP FOR YOU!!




Stitch-Up said:


> What's wrong with copy & paste from R-Wear directly into Corel? Saw it done yesterday and cut on a Graphtec.
> 
> John


----------



## Stitch-Up

I don't wish to sound like a guru on this subject! Just to say I went to a big show in the UK yesterday and was very interested to see the R-Wear software in action. As I have a Graphtec cutter and no plans to purchase a Roland, I asked the question:

"Can I use my Graphtec cutter".

The answer probably confirms that you can't use a Graphtec cutter with R-Wear BUT, the guy demo'ing the software created the pattern in R-Wear then selected it all (CTRL+A), then copied it (CTRL+C), opened Coreldraw and pasted (CTRL+V) directly. As Coreldraw supports other cutters, including my Graphtec CE5000-60 - job done.

Cheers

John

PS I don't have the software yet but it was demo'd to me


----------



## Winger61

John,
Did they show the different fill patterns??
I have the DAS software and I don't like how it does the fill patterns.
I wind up doiing it myself the old fashion way. Just paste them where I want them.


----------



## Stitch-Up

I'm afraid not Winger, it was my partner who was particularly interested in the system as she's about to take a shop located right on a beach in a holiday resort - she thinks it should be a good seller.

I just watched the guy copy and paste the vector graphic from R-Wear to CorelDraw. We returned to the stand later in the afternoon and spoke to another of the demo guys and he confirmed the Graphtec would work both for required pressure and copy & paste etc.

John


----------



## siemed

It is a pity that we could not test the software before buying. If you would be able to test the software for several days, then the choice would be so much easier.


----------



## RolandASDRick

The "flock" blade is actually the R-Wear Blade that Roland sells for the GX-24. This is a special blacde made specifically for cutting twill and flock and is a 54 degree angled blade. Also the GX-24 uses servo motors which will produce a much more accurate circle than that of a madchine with stepper motors. Also, the issues most of ytou are seeing with the smaller holes not cutting out right is something that you will have with the software and plyable material like the sandblast mask or equivalent materials. This is why the engraving method for producing the rhinestone templates is, in my opinion, a better solution for producing templates especially for the smaller stone sizes as the parallel cutters used will always produce a clean circle with no edges for the stone to catch onto and also alolow you to place stones a lot closer than you can with the cutter solution.


----------



## DTFuqua

Stitch-Up said:


> I don't wish to sound like a guru on this subject! Just to say I went to a big show in the UK yesterday and was very interested to see the R-Wear software in action. As I have a Graphtec cutter and no plans to purchase a Roland, I asked the question:
> 
> "Can I use my Graphtec cutter".
> 
> The answer probably confirms that you can't use a Graphtec cutter with R-Wear BUT, the guy demo'ing the software created the pattern in R-Wear then selected it all (CTRL+A), then copied it (CTRL+C), opened Coreldraw and pasted (CTRL+V) directly. As Coreldraw supports other cutters, including my Graphtec CE5000-60 - job done.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John
> 
> PS I don't have the software yet but it was demo'd to me


Great news John. Does this mean your going to get the software from Roland?


----------



## Stitch-Up

I'm not sure Roland will sell direct in the UK, I will purchase through one of their suppliers and as Xpres were the helpful company, I'd use them.

John


----------



## sjidohair

I totally agree, or at least let you play with one design,, your choice of design, test it and then choose, as all the systems are great systems , we all just like to use them different, 
I would also suggest getting your hands on a template to test if you have what it takes to make your own Rhinestone Transfers or not, the first 2 are a lil tricky on a full design keeping your stones on the hot fix tape, but oce you get it,, you got it,, If the system poeple would send you a template cut, so you can test it,, that would be awesome,, hey it doesnt hurt to ask.
Sandy jo


----------



## DTFuqua

Stitch-Up said:


> I'm not sure Roland will sell direct in the UK, I will purchase through one of their suppliers and as Xpres were the helpful company, I'd use them.
> 
> John


Glad to hear you are going to be our Guinea pig. I will anxiously await hearing your experiences as I want to do rhinestones also and have the Graphtec CE500-60 too.
Terry


----------



## Stitch-Up

I'll gladly be the 'Guinea Pig'.

I phoned the supplier this morning and once again they confirmed the Graphtec plotter would be fine. Of course, there is the extra step of copying and pasting from R-Wear Studio.

I'll keep you informed of my progress.

Cheers

John


----------



## Stitch-Up

This 'theme' is continued over at http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t18665-5.html


----------



## allhamps

Let me know how the template vinyl cuts and weeds. It's a little on the small size for most of my needs (only 12.5"), but the price looks good and I can always keep using what I have for the larger designs.

Have fun and hurry up with those pics


----------



## sjidohair

hey john, can you give us the break down of price for the software,, of what is all needed, this may be something for alot of members that already have a cutter..
thanks 
Sandy Jo


----------



## Stitch-Up

Okay, we've spent a bit of time using the software today. These are very early days and as we've never done anything with rhinestones before, our first attemps are sure to be cr*p 

The software is Roland's R-Ware Studio v1.2 We purchased it for £200GBP from Xpres in the UK. We also purchased a starter kit of various 'vinyls' and rhinestones. The starter kit cost more than the software!

It'll take a while for us to become competent with the software. Some of the things missing for me are:

1. Rulers on the X & Y axis
2. Dragable boundary lines

I've changed the blade in our Graphtec CE5000-60 for a 60deg one. Using the test cut facility and a bit of playing, I've got the cut depth just right so the sand blast vinyl cuts and only the slightest impression shows on the carrier sheet.

We've only attempted simple designs thus far, text etc, so bare with us.

Here are some pictures which show how easy the vinyl weeds.

This first pic shows the cutter at work - pretty useless really as it's like watching paint dry

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1302.jpg

This picture shows how easy weeding is - even with the vinyl still in the cutter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1310.jpg

Here's the template stuck on the tray.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1311.jpg

And with a sprinkling of rhinestones. Light circular movement with the foam places the rhinestones the right way up into the holes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1315.jpg

Applying the application tape to lift the stones

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1316.jpg


And lifting away
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1318.jpg


Finally, one we made earlier!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Rhinestones/Early Days/IMG_1327.jpg


----------



## andywt

fantastic, really hightened my interest in getting up n running with this , hope it will work with the smaller craft robo. Have found a site selling them with instructions on making the templates using coraldraw12. Anyway , those pics look great , many thanks.


----------



## Stitch-Up

No problem using Coreldraw.

Because the Roland software only supports Roland hardware, I created the designs in the software then, in order to use my Graphtec cutter - select all, copy, switch to Coreldraw & paste. That's exactly how I cut using the Graphtec.

John


----------



## sunnydayz

Stitch-Up said:


> No problem using Coreldraw.
> 
> Because the Roland software only supports Roland hardware, I created the designs in the software then, in order to use my Graphtec cutter - select all, copy, switch to Coreldraw & paste. That's exactly how I cut using the Graphtec.
> 
> John


Thanks for showing such a great example of what the Roland software can do  It just goes to show with a little ingenuity it can be done much cheaper then buying the much more expensive software's  Thanks again for taking the time to post.


----------



## allhamps

John, where are you getting your template vinyl?


----------



## Stitch-Up

My pleasure Bobbie.

The template vinyl came as part of the kit we purchased. It's more commonly known as sand blast vinyl - I believe. It's readily available from most vinyl suppliers.

Cheers

John


----------



## sjidohair

Looks like you are doing a great job,,
and having fun
allhamps, that material, is available like john said, where ever they sell sandblast material,, 
it is really thin compared to what you are using, but it is always fun to get diffrent materials to play with,, 
Thanks for the great pictures..
ok now is us dollars, how much would this system cost to someone whom had corel and the cutter?
It sounds like agood altrenative for someone who doesnt want to invest in a big package,, 
Thanks again for sharing
Sandy jo


----------



## agensop

last i remember it was around $500 us and when it first came out it was 450 but i didnt think you could buy it OUTSIDE of a package deal.


----------



## allhamps

Thanks, just wanted to check and see if it were something other than what I was using. Do you know how thick it is? I get mine from Sign Warehouse, but I just recently ordered the 35mil instead of the 25mil, because it seemed a little thin. Hope it's better.


----------



## sjidohair

wow that is a great entry price for someone wanting to get into this,, 
Looks like it does a good job as well.
the light colored tan material is very thin, it is called butter cream, cuts well, a little to thin for my templates as well , i need my stones to stay in where i put em, but it is pretty.
Sandy jo


----------



## siemed

So far as I have seen the R-Wear software does not do much more then you could do with Coreldraw. In Coreldraw you can also put text or a picture with some clicks in a rhinestone pattern. The only thing I can not do with Coreldraw is fill the pictures or text with stones. 

Is this possible with R-Wear?


----------



## Stitch-Up

To exploit the features of R-Wear fully, one does need a Roland cutter.

To answer your question about filling pictures or text with stones, the answer is yes you can BUT, you have to define the area to be filled as a picture is usually a bitmap. Text however can be filled or just the outside line.

Hope that helps

John


----------



## agensop

To me this doesnt make much since. What can a roland cutter do that no other cutter can do? I ask because one user said they copy and pasted into corel draw from R-wear and it worked fine. So what maked the roland so much better



Stitch-Up said:


> To exploit the features of R-Wear fully, one does need a Roland cutter.
> 
> To answer your question about filling pictures or text with stones, the answer is yes you can BUT, you have to define the area to be filled as a picture is usually a bitmap. Text however can be filled or just the outside line.
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> John


----------



## Stitch-Up

You're right, copy & paste to Coreldraw and cutting on another plotter works fine.

However, the software is designed by Roland for Roland hardware and I have discovered that certain functions i.e. viewing a simulated graphic of the final pattern isn't available to me. I assume this is because I'm NOT using Roalnd hardware.

It's no big deal as the main purpose of the software is to produce patterns for cutting - the software accomplishes this whether you have Roland hardware or not. If you don't have a Roland cutter, you have to cut and paste into a program that supports your cutter i.e. in my case Coreldraw.

Hope that helps.

John


----------



## RolandASDRick

R-WearStudio does give you 3 different fill patterns to choose from for text (true type) or graphics (EPS/AI) and Bitmap images (after vectorization). You can control the pitch (space between the lines of the fill) and the gap (distance between stones). As for the cutter, R-WearStudio is built to drive Roland cutters & engravers directly and not other brands and this is why you would have to copy and paste the job into a program such as CorelDRAW. Also, you cannot do everything that R-WearStudio is capable of in CorelDRAW, for instance convert any true type font into a stroke font, have the complete swarovski rhinestone library to choose from (which makes stone selection easier) and produce the numerous fill patterns to name a few. Some folks have asked why the Roland software doesn't come with graphics and the reason is that Roland is not a clipart company, they are solely hardware oriented and the software that is built is typically built for driving the units and nothing more. This is where a company like DAS does well as they include artwork, but artwork can be used from any source and is fairly easy to get and utilize in the R-WearStudio program and thus Roland is able to keep the cost of the software down ($499 US, $299 when bundled with a new engraver like the EGX-30A/350/360/400/600). Hope this answered some of the questions out there. If you want to see videos of the R-WearStudio workflows, visit the rolandasdvideos section on youtube (search for rolandasdvideos).


----------



## allhamps

Hey Rick, you mentioned "converting any True Type font into a single line font". Does this mean that I can use R-wear to change my font so that when I place the rhinestone pattern, it doesn't double up like it does in DAS? That is the only thing I DON't like about DAS. I have several favorite fonts I like to use for rhinestone patterns, but the DAS system always wants to place the stones along the each edge of the writing, so I end up spending time deleting the "extra set of outline" stones. DAS came with some single line engraving fonts that don't do this, but I don't really like them. Also, it's almost impossible to find and purchase a good set of single line fonts. It almost sounds like the $500 for R-Wear might be worth my investment just for the font conversion


----------



## RolandASDRick

Yes, R-WearStudio allows you to convert any Windows True Type font into a stroke font and also allows you to modifiy/cleanup the font and saves it as a Roland Single Line Font that can only be used with R-WearStudio. So unlike some of the other programs out there that leave you with either a small number of fonts or fonts you may not want to use, R-WearStudio allows you to convert your favorite fonts into true single line fonts for easy rhinestone placement. So, at $500, R-WearStudio is probably one of the better prorgams for Rhinestone template design.


----------



## Stitch-Up

When you install R-Ware from the CD, you can also install another program called SFEdit2.

SFEdit2 converts trute type fonts to single line fonts. Some it does well, some you're better off forgetting 

John


----------



## siemed

In Coreldraw you can convert any font into a bitmap. Then you can make a centerline from that font (bitmap) and let the stones follow that line. 
Is this what you are looking for?


----------



## DTFuqua

siemed said:


> In Coreldraw you can convert any font into a bitmap. Then you can make a centerline from that font (bitmap) and let the stones follow that line.
> Is this what you are looking for?


Can you elaborat on how this is done? Is there a tutorial for this? Thank you. 
Terry


----------



## RolandASDRick

Although you can do the centerline contour in CorelDraw, it is only for the text you typed in. This means that you have to go through this process each and everytime you create a new design. When you convert the font in R-WearStudio, it converts the entire font character map and when saved can be used over and over again, without having to do the conversion process each time which saves a lot of time and we all know that time is $$, .


----------



## allhamps

Thanks for the CorelDraw tip, but I'm not the type that wants to do 3 or 4 steps when I can do a click and viola!! That's why I like the rhinestone software. I set up my design, I click on a tool and the stones "magically" go where I want them. Maybe an adjustment or two of a few placements (I get real picky), and I'm ready to cut, shake, press and get paid. I'll harrass the guys at DAS to see if they plan on coming out with some font conversion add-in for Rhinestone Stencil, but I'm saving up for R-Wear just because of that feature. Thanks everyone!!


----------



## andywt

So if I purchase the r-wear software is anybody able to confirm it will work with the small craft robo cutter via coreldraw?


----------



## DTFuqua

andywt said:


> So if I purchase the r-wear software is anybody able to confirm it will work with the small craft robo cutter via coreldraw?


I don't have the small one and not sure how small the one you have is. You might find someone with some sandblast resist and use corel draw to make some circles at precise measurements (I think .188 inches ) and see if they cut round or elongated and that should show you what you can expect. Good luck.
Terry


----------



## Stitch-Up

I'll try the Craft ROBO with Coreldraw/R-Wear later


----------



## andywt

that would be fantastic , thankyou John.


----------



## andywt

any news on the r-wear software with the small craft robo john? hanging off from buying it until I can find out if it is viable on the small machine?
cheers


----------



## sjidohair

R-wear question,
if you created it in r-wear are you able to export as a eps?
Thanks
Sandy jo


----------



## Stitch-Up

andywt said:


> any news on the r-wear software with the small craft robo john? hanging off from buying it until I can find out if it is viable on the small machine?
> cheers


Hi Andy

We've lost the power supply to our Robo! I've connected it up to another 12v source so will give it a go soon.

I'm not at all familiar with the Robo as I've never use it!

I'll get back to you asap.

John

PS Is there a manual for the Robo online - I'll do a search now


----------



## Stitch-Up

sjidohair said:


> R-wear question,
> if you created it in r-wear are you able to export as a eps?
> Thanks
> Sandy jo


Sandy, there's no support for exporting to eps however, when the design is pasted into Coreldraw, you can export it to whatever you want

I might try renaming the extension of one of the files to .eps just to see if it works - you never know.


----------



## sjidohair

I think I have to get my hands on this to play with, and compare some features,, 
Can you post a pattern so i can see what the visual looks like. just something simple.

I am looking for a program that will make a nice presentation when presenting quotes.
Thanks
Sandy jo


----------



## sjidohair

something that looks like stones not just dots,, lol
Sandy Jo


----------



## allhamps

Sandy Jo, you mean like the DAS rhinestone simulations? With DAS, you can simulate the rhinestone glimmer with fills, or you can use bitmap fills that actually look like rhinestones with the facets and all. I typically just use the fills because I can adjust the color. DAS also has the "proof" sheet, but I don't like their format so I've done my own in a desktop publishing software that I can save as a pdf and send to the customer with the DAS rhinestone simulation of the work. I'd also like to know if R-Wear does anything similar?


----------



## patchs

I haven't heard much lately about the Eagle, just wondering if Sandy Jo is still happy with it. I have done lots of comparing and I'm about ready to take the plunge. This will be my first cutter, so I'm still not sure what I am doing. Sandy Jo did you say that The Eagle, not only does great with rhinestones, but it also cuts vinyl and twill? Does the software also make a stitch file? Thanks for all the helpfull information.


----------



## sjidohair

I am very happy with the eagle, it cuts twill vinyl and board material as well as a engraver.. with the attachment.
The software was very easy to load in, and it is an amazing vinyl, sign, garment , rhinestone, cutting program. the vectorizing program, is great as well,
here is what i do for the stich program,, which i just found out, by accident playing .
This machine has a laser alighnment cutting part for contour cutting but i had a design and instead of making it into a stone design, i hit the contour button, it looked like stitching,, around my design,, i liked it,,, 
What i have not figured out if it does is what i just asked about, having a realistic stone look to the dot for presentation of a bid or quote, i think that would look nice when presenting patterns.

I work with alot of programs, for rhinestones, and want to play with them all.lol
allhamps, that sounds like what i am looking for, 
which part of the das system is that? that makes the faceted stone part.. I have parts of the das system , but not that,,
Sandy Jo
thanks


----------



## allhamps

The rhinestone simulation piece is in SmartCut Pro2. The one I use the most is basically a fill pattern using the paint tool and the "radial" type fill. However, there are actually clip art simulations of pretty much every rhinestone color that can be used to. I don't quite remember how though. I have attached a picture in which I use the paint feature for most of the pattern, and then I plac ed manually, some of the clip art stones so you could see the effect. I'll try to find the instructions for using the clip art stones.


----------



## sjidohair

right hand corner of star is what i am looking for,, Sandy jo


----------



## Stitch-Up

andywt said:


> that would be fantastic , thankyou John.


Hi Andy

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I still haven't tried cutting with the ROBO! However, I did check out the technical specification of the robo and it seems it'll fail in two areas:

1. The cutting pressure (downforce ) is less than the 250 I was told was needed

and;

2. The cutting depth is insufficient.

As soon as I can, I will try despite what I've written above.

John


----------



## andywt

Cheers John . appreciate the help.


----------



## Rusty44

I've been interested in rhinestones for a long time. I screen print now, but looking to be a little more mobile as I would like to try the snowbird scenerio next year. I can't haul 100's of screens, but this sounds like something that would transport much easier.

So looking at something such as the Eagle system - what is it you need to have a complete set up? Besides a PC and the Cutter? Do they offer classes / tutorials?

Thanks so much for any information, I'd like to start planning ahead now.

Sandy


----------



## plan b

Hi,
I am going to answer some of these questions directed to the Eagle, (as a side note to this I am just answering direct questions and not promoting this machine).

The Eagle was probably released a little on the pre-mature side as far as documentation goes however to directly off set for that virtual training is provided by tech service, what I mean by that is that the software has the capability while connected to the internet and via telephone in that the tech actually will take control of the software remotely and give you hands on direct training this is done for now and in the future also until the pdf version of the manuel is completed along with videos.
The software is a mature and stable software that has been put through countless hours of testing. This is a one piece software that does everthing. You can also install this software on multible computers as it has a dongle you would just have to bring your files with you in order to work on projects you have started or just need to cut from a existing file.

The Falcon was designed to be the most portable machine or space saver.


----------



## Rusty44

So much great information to digest here. Couple question I have that I did not see answered was ...

1) When using different color stones in a design, do you cut a template for each color? Like you would have to make a screen for each color? 
If so, would they be pressed like this?
color 1, press cool peel 
color 2, press cool peel and so on.

Does this apply for different shape stones as well, to create a separate template?

IF different size stones (2mm, 3mm etc) are on one template, what keeps the smaller stone out of the larger stone's hole?

Thanks for clearing up this for me.

Sandy


----------



## allhamps

I have the DAS Stone Stencil System and I typically cut separate templates for separate colors and/or different size stones. However, that does not always have to be the case. I had one design that used 3mm and 4mm stones. There was only one line of the 4mm stones, so I placed the 4mm stones and lifted them to the transfer tape for all of the designs (you do the larger stones first because they can't fit in the smaller spaces). Then I placed some packing tape over the 4mm stone part and placed the 3mm stones. You don't need to press separately. The transfer tape is clear so you can see how to realign the tape for the second portion, or you can make alignment markings to keep your design pieces together. Sometimes, if there are only a few of one color in my design, I will cut it with a another color in the design where the stones are sort of spaced apart in the final design. Then again, you can either just brush the stones in that part of the template, or you can use the tape over method. I never use the press one piece and then another method because you ultimately end up pressing one or more portions too much and your glue becomes less effective. As you work more and more with the templates, you kind of develop a method that works good for your process. For example, my sons like to help so they can make pocket change. However, they have a hard time laying the transfer tape which can be very tricky. So when they are helping, I simply cut the transfer paper a little longer than the finished template and then cut it into 2-4 strips. This way they can manage the smaller pieces better and you only need to overlap the transfer tape a little because it is so sticky.


----------



## Stitch-Up

Rusty44 said:


> So much great information to digest here. Couple question I have that I did not see answered was ...
> 
> 1) When using different color stones in a design, do you cut a template for each color? Like you would have to make a screen for each color?
> If so, would they be pressed like this?
> color 1, press cool peel
> color 2, press cool peel and so on.
> 
> Does this apply for different shape stones as well, to create a separate template?
> 
> IF different size stones (2mm, 3mm etc) are on one template, what keeps the smaller stone out of the larger stone's hole?
> 
> Thanks for clearing up this for me.
> 
> Sandy


Hi sandy

We're very much beginners at this but this is just what we did for multi-coloured designs.

We created a template for each colour and pressed the 1st colour then applied the 2nd colour etc etc.

With regard to large and smaller stones.

If you sweep the larger stone first, they will only fill the larger holes in the template. If you then sweep on the smaller stones ....... I think you might be able to work this one out


----------



## Rusty44

Thanks John ... now that I read your answer to the stone size ... my face is blushing, the obvious. 

I appreciate your response. 

Sandy


----------



## sjidohair

This is how i do it,, there are many different ways, find the one that works for you, as long as the outcome is the same,, find your own way..
I cut templates with up to 3 different size stones,,
I push the largest in first. they will not go in the smaller holes
then go 2nd largest,
then 3rd,,
i dont tape anything off, 
When doing multi color, i just dump my stones on the area and dont push them off to the other areas,, now when you get into multi,color , multi stone size,, it gets fun,,,,
sandy jo


----------



## bob emb

Hi Rusty,

I t does get rather complicated when you have multi color and multi size stones as everyone seems to atest to.

We thought long and hard about this problem. Most designs usually have 1-2 colors, but what happens when you have multiples of color and stones. It becomes like screenprinting multiple scrrens or in your case multiple templates.

We chose the CAMMS machine and I can do 175 stones per hour in up to 6 colors and stone sizes. I understand that the DAS and EAGLE systems along with the Roland EG-350 are very inexpensive compared to my machine, put we are set up for production not 1 offs. Any of those machines are great if you are not doing a lot of color and stone sizes. Just my opinion.

Best Regards,

Bob


----------



## sjidohair

Bob, this would be good for me to know as well as others,, that get a call for this,, 
Can you take a picture and rip it and put it in your software and have your cam machine replicate it,
I just had a request for this yesterday.
If this is possible it is good to know, and would they have to order how many to make it worth the work you put into it, to product it?
thanks sandy Jo
The cool thing here is we have so many different techiniques,, we should be able to do just about anything, and share it with each other


----------



## bob emb

Hi Sandy,

Just got the new machine yesterday. I had the machine that did 75 stones per hour. The new one does 175 stones per hour. I am not quit sure what you want me to do. Would you like me to take a logo and convert it to stones do the job and take a pic and upload it. Or just make a circle or shape and fill it with different colors and stone sizes.

Obviously if the art is complicated the set up charge would cost money, similar to your charging for templates. Then depending on the quantity and size of stones there is a charge based on quantity produced.

Hope I did not confuse anyone. Please feel free to contact me for a more indepth talk( really not high tech).

Best Regards,

Bob


----------



## allhamps

Hey Bob, what's the price range on those machines, the one that does 75/hr and the new one at 175/hr, if you don't mind my asking. I like my DAS, but more and more of my designs are complicated (more than one color), so I'm subcontracting those out if the order is over 25. I think it's time for me to start planning for something else

Thanks.


----------



## sjidohair

bob, I am glad you are here to help us in this, 
As we grow in our business, and the graphics become more filled I just wondered what piece of equipment and software, justifies what kind of design 
my understanding is the cam machine can do what some of us cant do with templates,, 
Like a complicated photo,
as the cam can go into the cam hoppers and pic up whatever color needs to go where ever,, 
Lets take for example the obama rhinestone transfers, which by the way proworld sells at a great price, 
now that was done from a photo, and that must have been done on a cam machine dont you think?

thanks bob. and thanks gail 
Sandy Jo


----------



## priority1

Fill patterns are a bear to work with. We've fought the system for a month now, and I finally decided to call and ask for help. Imagine my surprise (and embarrassment) when after 5 minutes I had it down pat with Matts help. The key is to use the "User" option when placing stones, and making a few slight adjustments. I'm blown away at how easy it is now. Dumb me waiting to ask..........

60 days in, and the software costs have been covered, and the cutter and materials are very close. This system rocks.....


----------



## bob emb

Hi Sandy,

I will have 2 designs to post with pics on Thursday. One is just a 2 color 2 size stone design 650 stones and the other is the CHILI'S logo with 2 ss6 2 ss10 2 different size reds a green and a clear. It is about 675 stones. I may change the ss10 in the word chilis to ss6 to make it more filled.

The one bad thng about the CAMMS machine is the software that comes with it now is very low tech. I think the software that comes with your machine Sandy and the DAS are more advanced.
The CAMMS machine will have vector software with fills etc very soon. I guess that will add $2,000.00 more to the machine.

Bob


----------



## sjidohair

Bob, thanks and i look forward to the pics, If i can help you design just ask. All these new machines that are coming out, they are coming out so fast,, there is always something missing it seems, but thank goodness , that we all have machines that make our jobs easy. wonder what the new machine will be next month? or week,, lol I have heard a few rumors,,lol
Sandy Jo


----------



## andywt

Stitch-Up said:


> Hi Andy
> 
> Sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I still haven't tried cutting with the ROBO! However, I did check out the technical specification of the robo and it seems it'll fail in two areas:
> 
> 1. The cutting pressure (downforce ) is less than the 250 I was told was needed
> 
> and;
> 
> 2. The cutting depth is insufficient.
> 
> As soon as I can, I will try despite what I've written above.
> 
> John


Hi John , thanks for that info, have you managed to physically try it yet?


----------



## debbiedaralbert

Hello Sandyjo I am new to this forum and I have just purchased the eagle ultra force falcon I have not set it up yet but thanks for all your info on the the eagle product I know I will be happy. I look forward to learning and sharing info
Thanks Darlene


----------



## Rusty44

When making rhinestone templates, are any of the systems software able to give you the number of stones used in a pattern as well as a count by stone size? 

Thanks
Sandra


----------



## sjidohair

The system i use does count the stones for you,, not sure about each individual size, or color.


----------



## dan-ann

Hi Sandi

is the software withthe eagle the same as with the falcon? Is it difficult to learn


----------



## sjidohair

The softwear is the same, if you know graphic programs it is not hard,, but the support from ACS which is the software,, is great, if you run into a problem there is a support line,, and a phone call away,
I am still learning as this is also a awesome vectorizing program,,,
i will be glad to answer any questions about the software....
sandy jo


----------



## bfgraphics

So far reports of this machine seem very favorable. The video blows the DAS machine out of the water. The DAS cutter is a GCC, and though not a bad machine, I don't see where it can cut all the materials that this one can. This seems to be a cross between a roll cutter and a flatbed. 
I'd love to see more videos on the software in use.

Bob


----------



## sjidohair

Let us that have the cutter get a handle on it,, and i am sure some of us will post some videos,,
on the ACS software


----------



## bfgraphics

I appreciate it, as I am sure many others will. Not a lot of info out there on this cutter, the company or software. I was hoping to see it at the Printwear show this past week in Indy, but no luck. 
You have a teriffic web page and seem to really have a handle on templates and all that go along with making them. A recommendation from owners like you will go along way towards calming any jitters about buying from a seemingly unknown company with a brand new product, if that is the case.
I am especially interested in the machine's ability to cut twill and other fabrics, along with templates.
Thanks again for the reply.

Bob


----------



## sjidohair

Bob, this co that makes the machine has been making machines for i think 30 years,, something like that, 
and it cuts twill like cutter, i cut cardboard the other night ,, lol
and you can spray adheasive, on the cutting mat,, and or tape fabric on it, and it cuts fabic for embroid, and applique and quilters,, ect, scrapbookers will love this also as the ablilty to cut paper with the mat, is awesome.. 
there are 2 new members that have the falcon, this week, and are sharing info to , so watch for there posts, it is nice that someone else finally has this machine,, i cant wait to network, with them, i have kinda felt like the kid playing in the corner by themselves,, now i have friends to play with..
yahooo
thanks for the comments on my website, someone on the forum here helped me with it, if you ever need help pm me and i will refer you..
sandy Jo


----------



## sunnydayz

Well I was just crusing the internet the other day and came across a cutter that looks to be the same cutter as the eagle.
Here are pics of the cutter: 

Scrapbookdiecutter.com: KNK-MAXX 24"

It looks to be identical to the eagle that can be seen here Vinyl Cutters | Buy-ACS.com.

The only difference I could find was the force on the specs. The eagle lists it at 1500 grams of force, where as the Maxx cutter is 
listed at 950 grams of force. So I decided to contact a rep for the KNK and was told their are a couple different features on the software. One is that the KNK software can only be installed on two computers, and the ACS/Eagle can be installed unlimited times. If more installs are needed for the KNK they can be purchased. Another difference in the software is that the ACS/Eagle software has a hatch fill option, but with the KNK, you can create a simulated fill that works just fairly well. 

I also asked what differences the machine had, as I found out they are indeed made by the same company. One difference is that the ACS/Eagle has the blade holder built to be closer to the pinch wheels for more accurate circle cuts, although the KNK has been used to make rhinestone templates, and does cut the template material. The ACS/Eagle is just I guess more accurate. Another difference is that the controls on the ACS/Eagle are hand held, while on the KNK they are machine mounted.

There is however a huge difference in price, as the maxx cutter is $2300 cheaper. So I think this is a great deal for those looking to get into the rhinestone business.

Here is the ACS/Eagle cutting, with a quick shot of the software .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4mzv5jgaqw

And if you look at this more in depth video here

http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/RhinestoneTutorials1.wmv, you will see it is basically the same
Software, although without the hatch fill option. I have downloaded the demo software version from ACS and did the exact tutorial in this video from here http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/RhinestoneTutorials1.wmv, and they
worked exactly the same, although I did not do any fill on the design.

Now most cutters such as the Graphtec and the Roland which I will provide links to both have much less force then this machine.
The Graphtec has only 300 grams of force, and the Roland has only 250 grams of force. So once you get to 950, does it really matter if it has 1500? I would think that
with 950 grams of force, it would be more then enough to get the job done 

Roland link Roland GX-24 Vinyl Cutter Plotter + Free Shipping
Graphtec link Graphtec CE5000-60 Vinyl Cutter & Floor Stand

Basically at the starting price of $1199 compared to $3499 I think it is a great oppertunity for people that want to get into rhinestones, to do it at a very low cost. 

I can only say that looking at the comparisons of these two machines, with the differences I have listed, it will be up to the consumer
to decide whether this is an option for them, where the knk maxx cutter is around $2300 cheaper, and makes it very affordable for
those looking to get into doing rhinestones at a lower price point. 

Here is a small list of the suppliers of this machine that I found in just a few minutes, I am sure there are more 

Now I have found these suppliers from google, so it really should be noted that you should verify that any one
of these vendors is reputable, as I myself have not dealt with them. I did contact Sandy at Digital Die Cutting With Sandy McCauley, to check the 
differences of the machines, and verify what I am posting. So if you are looking to get more info, it would be a good idea to maybe check with
her about maybe finding a reliabe vendor of the machine.

Scrapbookdiecutter.com: Klic-N-Kut

Klic-N-Kut

TexasCutters.com**** Orders shipping NOW! : Klic-N-Kut

And for our Aussie and Uk friends  I also found a couple suppliers there as well. I thought this was really cool, because I know 
how hard it is for our Aussie friends to find products with all those duties you guys have to pay to get stuff
shipped over there. In fact I believe in Australia there is even a 40" inch version of this machine 
Craft Robo & Klic-N-Kut - Klic-N-Kut - Scrapping With You - online papercraft store and more

SKATKATZ


Well happy rhinestoning  and I sure hope this helps those of you that are looking at a more affordable option


----------



## ashamutt

!!!AWESOME!!! post BobbieLee!!!!!!!!

Great links and info!!!!!

I could actually afford a "rhinestone" cutter now!!!  
The *KNK-MAXX 24" @ *$1199 is an AWESOME deal/value!!!!!


----------



## DTFuqua

so this KNK Studio does rhinestone templates and can be sent directly to my Graphtec ce5000-60? Does it do single line fonts? Does it "spray" circles of a particular size along a line of varying length and either straight or curved?


----------



## bfgraphics

That's some great research that you have done. Thanks for sharing.
Actually for cutting the template material, you do NOT need 900 grams force or even close to it. There are folks using the GCC Jaguar and Puma (600 grams force and 450gf) and even cutters with less force. There are some special blades made by Clean Cut Blades that are not just 60 degree blades but a special 60 degree blade that requires less force to cut through the material. Folks with even the Roland GX24 with 250 grams force are cutting template material with these blades. Google Clean Cut Blades to find the site. Ross Jones owns the company and makes the blades right here in the US. They are sharper and last longer than OEM blades or crappy imported blades. The template material is the same material used for sand blast templates for sandblasting on glass, stone etc. All that extra force is not required. It is good if you are cutting wood, but not needed for these stencils. As far as the machine model with the controls on the flexible "pendant" cord, I would rather have the controls machine mounted anytime. There is less chance for the control unit to be damaged by dropping it, stepping on it, or the cord being damaged. I worked around industrial equipment in a manufacturing facility for a lot of years, and controls mounted on flexible cords are very prone to damage. If remote operation was needed, a better idea would be a panel mounted control, and then an additional "slave" remote control that was wireless-infrared, or better yet- radio frequency, just like a TV remote. These are used now for everything from overhead cranes to tow trucks. It is not that expensive to do. Cord-mounted remote controls are old time technology and too damage-prone. But remote control is just not even needed for stencils.
Buy-ACS.com., scrapbookdiecutter.com, Eagle Ultraforce are all the same company, or parts of the same, or related to each other. They are all part of Accugraphic, Sales Inc, which is also Automated Cutting Systems.(ACS) When you buy from them on the internet, the sale is processed through the Scrapbookdiecutter-whatever web site. I have personally seen it.

I guess the software for the rhinestones is big part of the feature of the Eagle, but your are saying that the other software is the same or close enough? Wild!
Thanks for the info and I hope I added more food for thought. I can't see overbuying for something that we can do for less. I am experimenting with different materials for templates. If anyone has success with alternative template material, please post it. If I find a winner, I'll post as well. Thanks.

Bob


----------



## sunnydayz

I do not believe the software will work with the graphtec. I think it only works for their machines. Maybe Sandy will come by and answer your question as she is a member here. Or maybe sandy jo can even answer, as from what I understand is the hatch fill function is the only different thing on the software between the eagle and the knk.


----------



## SandyMcC

I will need to clarify this on Monday. While an earlier version of KNK Studio had drivers for the CR Pro and a couple other cutters, I no longer see them present in version 8.

Sandy McC


----------



## martinwoods

Hi Bobbie
Do you know what steps it take to make the fill for a design? with the knk software?

Thanks for any help, it looks like a pretty good deal compared to what the other is selling for


----------



## sunnydayz

You know what Teresa, on Sandys page, she has some great video tutorials. 

Here are a couple of links to the ones that show the fills being made with the knk software.

http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/RhinestoneTutorials4.wmv

http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/RhinestoneTutorials5.wmv

I played around with a demo version of the software, it was super easy to do the fills.


----------



## sportkids

sunnydayz said:


> Well I was just crusing the internet the other day and came across a cutter that looks to be the same cutter as the eagle.
> Here are pics of the cutter:
> 
> Scrapbookdiecutter.com: KNK-MAXX 24"
> 
> It looks to be identical to the eagle that can be seen here Vinyl Cutters | Buy-ACS.com.
> 
> The only difference I could find was the force on the specs. The eagle lists it at 1500 grams of force, where as the Maxx cutter is
> listed at 950 grams of force. So I decided to contact a rep for the KNK and was told their are a couple different features on the software. One is that the KNK software can only be installed on two computers, and the ACS/Eagle can be installed unlimited times. If more installs are needed for the KNK they can be purchased. Another difference in the software is that the ACS/Eagle software has a hatch fill option, but with the KNK, you can create a simulated fill that works just fairly well.
> 
> I also asked what differences the machine had, as I found out they are indeed made by the same company. One difference is that the ACS/Eagle has the blade holder built to be closer to the pinch wheels for more accurate circle cuts, although the KNK has been used to make rhinestone templates, and does cut the template material. The ACS/Eagle is just I guess more accurate. Another difference is that the controls on the ACS/Eagle are hand held, while on the KNK they are machine mounted.
> 
> There is however a huge difference in price, as the maxx cutter is $2300 cheaper. So I think this is a great deal for those looking to get into the rhinestone business.
> 
> Here is the ACS/Eagle cutting, with a quick shot of the software .
> 
> YouTube - ACS Eagle
> 
> And if you look at this more in depth video here
> 
> http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/RhinestoneTutorials1.wmv, you will see it is basically the same
> Software, although without the hatch fill option. I have downloaded the demo software version from ACS and did the exact tutorial in this video from here http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/RhinestoneTutorials1.wmv, and they
> worked exactly the same, although I did not do any fill on the design.
> 
> Now most cutters such as the Graphtec and the Roland which I will provide links to both have much less force then this machine.
> The Graphtec has only 300 grams of force, and the Roland has only 250 grams of force. So once you get to 950, does it really matter if it has 1500? I would think that
> with 950 grams of force, it would be more then enough to get the job done
> 
> Roland link Roland GX-24 Vinyl Cutter Plotter + Free Shipping
> Graphtec link Graphtec CE5000-60 Vinyl Cutter & Floor Stand
> 
> Basically at the starting price of $1199 compared to $3499 I think it is a great oppertunity for people that want to get into rhinestones, to do it at a very low cost.
> 
> I can only say that looking at the comparisons of these two machines, with the differences I have listed, it will be up to the consumer
> to decide whether this is an option for them, where the knk maxx cutter is around $2300 cheaper, and makes it very affordable for
> those looking to get into doing rhinestones at a lower price point.
> 
> Here is a small list of the suppliers of this machine that I found in just a few minutes, I am sure there are more
> 
> Now I have found these suppliers from google, so it really should be noted that you should verify that any one
> of these vendors is reputable, as I myself have not dealt with them. I did contact Sandy at Digital Die Cutting With Sandy McCauley, to check the
> differences of the machines, and verify what I am posting. So if you are looking to get more info, it would be a good idea to maybe check with
> her about maybe finding a reliabe vendor of the machine.
> 
> Scrapbookdiecutter.com: Klic-N-Kut
> 
> Klic-N-Kut
> 
> TexasCutters.com**** Orders shipping NOW! : Klic-N-Kut
> 
> And for our Aussie and Uk friends  I also found a couple suppliers there as well. I thought this was really cool, because I know
> how hard it is for our Aussie friends to find products with all those duties you guys have to pay to get stuff
> shipped over there. In fact I believe in Australia there is even a 40" inch version of this machine
> Craft Robo & Klic-N-Kut - Klic-N-Kut - Scrapping With You - online papercraft store and more
> 
> SKATKATZ
> 
> 
> Well happy rhinestoning  and I sure hope this helps those of you that are looking at a more affordable option


Oh my..all of you have been so resourceful and can't thank you enough! It is SO much info to absorb. I am wondering if one or more of these affordable solutions will show up at an upcoming tradeshow in the midwest. I am going to be inquiring bright and early Monday morning. I just wish one of these manufacturers or dealers would do a 1 day class for some of the visual learners just to get the basics down. Bet they would be surprised at the response. I am already throwing some dough in the piggy bank! At that price, it is affordable. Can you imagine what this market will be in a year down the road?


----------



## ruiarahman

this is so cool i wonder if they r gonna sell this one at the chicago trade show coming august 15, i will be there and i want to buy a rhinestone machine


----------



## bfgraphics

So far from the vendors list, the only vendor I see at the upcoming Schaumburg show (Chicago) is the one with the highest priced "system". I have been following the shows closely and have not seen anyone else. I think the "eagle" was at one show in Florida, but was not even at this past week's PRINTWEAR SHOW in Long Beach, nor the east coast show recently either. This $1,100 cutter is very interesting. Gotta love American ingenuity! Thanks again to BobbieLee for her very interesting post.


----------



## dan-ann

I too was hoping for a machine at the Chicago show. This new one is very interesting to me. I have been drooling over the falcon but this price is even better. I want to add to my embroidery business not necessarily go rhinestones only so this price would be just great. I am very leary of spending thousands more on equipment. 

Thanks so much for finding this for us to investigate


----------



## BlingItOn

I too came across this same rhinestone template cutter and tutorials yesterday. Anyone that is interested in purchasing one of these cutters should definitely watch all 6 tutorials that Sandy McCauley has posted. The software is clearly explained by Sandy and looks to be and easy program to use. I was saving up to purchase the Falcon because it was more in my budget but now I think I may purchase one of these cutters without having to sacrifice my maximum cutting area. 

Thank you Bobbi Lee for doing the research between the different machines. You seemed to be one step ahead of me as I was going to contact Sandy McClauley and ask some of the same questions myself regarding the differences.

If anyone decides to purchase the KNK MAXX 24" cutter and software I hope that you'll fill us all in on the performance of the cutter as well as the software program. I still have a few more $$ to save before I can make my purchase of a rhinestone template cutter but the price of this new cutter may just get me a template cutter sooner than I thought.


----------



## plan b

Hi,

The people inside of KNK, Eagle and Falcon organization are well aware of the report here by a third party and we have been in communication about this topic with the owner/manufacturer of the product.

Early next week you can expect a statement from the owner/manufacturer about the facts on the seperate machines and softwares as not all of the facts have been represented here in a accurate manner.

We in upmost confidence can represent these products but felt it would be better coming from the manufacturer.


----------



## patchs

Please help me find Sandy's page with these tutorials you mentioned.


----------



## sunnydayz

> Early next week you can expect a statement from the owner/manufacturer about the facts on the seperate machines and softwares as not all of the facts have been represented here in a accurate manner.


If I have missed anything that would be great, as I am just posting things as I understand them. It really is great to have all the facts, and to know all the options that are out there.

Edited to add:

I wanted to also clear this comment up:



> The people inside of KNK, Eagle and Falcon organization are well aware of the report here by a third party


To me a third party is someone who sells an after market or alternate product. I wanted to just state that I have no affiliation with either product, only as a member of this forum that could be interested in this machine, and presented information that I have found as I understand it. I have not used either of these machines but was just collecting info for myself, as well as other members here who may be looking for a more affordable option.

Thanks


----------



## sunnydayz

patchs said:


> Please help me find Sandy's page with these tutorials you mentioned.


Here is a link to her site http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/, you just click on the video tutorial page and then click complete list of videos and it will show you the whole list. Down the list under R and all of the rhinestone tutorials.


----------



## BlingItOn

plan b said:


> Hi,
> 
> The people inside of KNK, Eagle and Falcon organization are well aware of the report here by a third party and we have been in communication about this topic with the owner/manufacturer of the product.
> 
> Early next week you can expect a statement from the owner/manufacturer about the facts on the seperate machines and softwares as not all of the facts have been represented here in a accurate manner.
> 
> We in upmost confidence can represent these products but felt it would be better coming from the manufacturer.


Do you know if the statement be posted on this forum or on the manufacturers website?


----------



## plan b

It will be posted here,


----------



## Girlzndollz

Thank Youuuu, Bobbielee!!! Of course, in the pics the machines appear_ identical,_ for the most part, so I thank you for posting the info on the specs and on what the differences might be. Great job. 

Thank you, too, to SandyM for checking on the software question, bc I do have a Graphtec cutter. 

A price tag of $1199 for the Maxx makes me think I probably won't care what little differences there may be between the machines. Of course, I will wait to hear what they are, but if they are _not significant_ at all (as long as the end result is a similar template) then for a savings of $2300 -- it's all good to me! That's my choice, of course, others would have to decide for themselves. 

Okay, thanks to everyone who said they will be posting more information on the two machines, because I know I have alot of questions, as many other readers of the thread might, too. 

We all know how we all love the bling, and this new option may help alot more of us bring the bling home... cheaper!!


----------



## bfgraphics

sunnydayz said:


> If I have missed anything that would be great, as I am just posting things as I understand them. It really is great to have all the facts, and to know all the options that are out there.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I wanted to also clear this comment up:
> 
> To me a third party is someone who sells an after market or alternate product. I wanted to just state that I have no affiliation with either product, only as a member of this forum that could be interested in this machine, and presented information that I have found as I understand it. I have not used either of these machines but was just collecting info for myself, as well as other members here who may be looking for a more affordable option.
> 
> Thanks


I am not sure if you are the third party, or if they are saying *I* am the third party, with the comments I added in my post, so their "Statement" will be interesting.
It's forums like this that help us learn about new products and technology, and help separate facts from fiction. This is a very new technology for most of us, and there is a lot of confusion, especially with some of the claims that are made by certain distributors. I have seen "systems" selling for almost $6K, now down to $1.1K. That is a huge price spread to get into the business.
Lots of confusion about which cutters will work, with some obvious misinformation presented at times.
There is only one distributor who is consistently at trade shows. It seems impossible to get a "hands on" demo from any other distributor on their machines or system, so the best we have are these groups, U tube videos etc. All we can do is report information as we see it. I have not seen any "third party" info either, just some helpful research and tips from members of this forum. 

Bob


----------



## sportkids

It is nice to know that I have been using the correct blades! You said the magic word..overbuying! Perhaps if the software only was available, there is a good possibility the cutters we currently own more than likely could perform the job. Now that is promising!


----------



## charles95405

I think that the KNK machine mentioned here is the same as the post on Mar 15 in this thread by Ron...It is also...I think...sold under another name foison.net a machine from china I had done some checking on this in the past and I place it in the category of a hobby machine...it will do a lot of what some systems do, but falls very short on documentation, warranty and after market support. When I checked, it had a one year warranty on the machine, but after setup, support is not provided unless you pay. Maybe someone who has purchased the KNK machine can chime in. I have the DAS system and Roland 350...using each for different purposes and have not seen in person or used either the KNK or ACS system..this is just what I recall from some past research before I made my purchases.


----------



## DTFuqua

charles95405 said:


> I think that the KNK machine mentioned here is the same as the post on Mar 15 in this thread by Ron...It is also...I think...sold under another name foison.net a machine from china I had done some checking on this in the past and I place it in the category of a hobby machine...it will do a lot of what some systems do, but falls very short on documentation, warranty and after market support. When I checked, it had a one year warranty on the machine, but after setup, support is not provided unless you pay. Maybe someone who has purchased the KNK machine can chime in. I have the DAS system and Roland 350...using each for different purposes and have not seen in person or used either the KNK or ACS system..this is just what I recall from some past research before I made my purchases.


Was the KNK Studio software as able as it seems to be now when you were doing the research?


----------



## sunnydayz

charles95405 said:


> I think that the KNK machine mentioned here is the same as the post on Mar 15 in this thread by Ron...It is also...I think...sold under another name foison.net a machine from china I had done some checking on this in the past and I place it in the category of a hobby machine...it will do a lot of what some systems do, but falls very short on documentation, warranty and after market support. When I checked, it had a one year warranty on the machine, but after setup, support is not provided unless you pay. Maybe someone who has purchased the KNK machine can chime in. I have the DAS system and Roland 350...using each for different purposes and have not seen in person or used either the KNK or ACS system..this is just what I recall from some past research before I made my purchases.


I see what post you are talking about Charles, but I found this info on their site where they state
they also sell it to an industrial market. 


Hmm I am reading on their site and someone asks about the machine differences and I came across this:

> 7. Why there is always an example of scrapbook or craft kind of work when it comes to KNK, I assume it can handle much of difficult contour cuttings which can be used to make stencils/templates? please correct me if I'm wrong.

We can cut stencils much better than any standard cutter on the market. Our machine is mostly metal ,others are mostly plastic. We sell to industrial marketplaces under a different brand name and a much higher price.


This seems to me that they are saying this machine is capable of heavier work then it is being marketed for, no only that but it is also stating they sell to industrial marketplaces
under a different brand name and a much higher price.

The eagle and falcon are also made by the same company in china.  They are made by the same people, which they state I believe is the same company that makes graphtec. You can see they 
associate themselves with graphtec on the bottom of the knk webiste.
What I can see is the body of the machines are identical, other then the 
hand held controls on the eagle, and then a couple of differences inside that have been modified, such as a different motor for more force,
and the blade holder being placed closer to the pinch wheels for more accurate cutting. So they are the same company, then there is the difference in the software where it does not have a hatch fill, and you have to create your own fill, which looks to be quite easy.



This is written by Chad, who I believe is the same person I have seen Sandyjo mention that gives her support for her machine.

I looked at this thread here in their forum Scrapbookdiecutter.com Support • View topic - Photos of what the KNK can do!, and it looks as though it has pretty good 
cutting abilities with 950 grams of force by the examples shown in that thread.

I am not saying that the eagle is not a good machine, I am just saying that their is cheaper option for a product that does not seem to have that much differences.

I know that there are members using their Graphtecs and Rolands to cut Rhinestone templates with much less
force. So it seems reasonable that this is an option for those that cannot afford that higher price point.

Knk does sell the rhinestone template material and the rhinestones, so they must feel confidant that their machine can cut
them as well.

As far as support they do have a forum, with a phone number to call if you have problems with the machine, so I dont think that seems to 
be an issue, although it is important to make sure you can get the help you need. Its not so unusuall for a company to have a warranty
for a year. That is what I had with my dtg machine. For that price even if you had a problem after a year, I am sure with the savings
it would be worth the cost of repair.


----------



## SandyMcC

charles95405 said:


> I think that the KNK machine mentioned here is the same as the post on Mar 15 in this thread by Ron...It is also...I think...sold under another name foison.net a machine from china I had done some checking on this in the past and I place it in the category of a hobby machine...it will do a lot of what some systems do, but falls very short on documentation, warranty and after market support. When I checked, it had a one year warranty on the machine, but after setup, support is not provided unless you pay. Maybe someone who has purchased the KNK machine can chime in. I have the DAS system and Roland 350...using each for different purposes and have not seen in person or used either the KNK or ACS system..this is just what I recall from some past research before I made my purchases.


The KNK Maxx comes with a 106 page user manual, similar to that of the Eagle.... the only differences being what is different about operating the KNK, the different blade holder, software differences, etc. And the support you get varies from dealer to dealer. Some provide assistance with installation and setup only, while others provide free additional classes by phone/VNC, as well as free assistance with designing files, free videos, etc. 

I spoke with Accugraphic today and they are tabulating the differences between the Eagle, Falcon, and KNK's and will have it ready in a day or two. They were closed all last week, so today was hectic catching up on customer orders, phone messages, and e-mails.

Sandy McC


----------



## SandyMcC

SandyMcC said:


> I will need to clarify this on Monday. While an earlier version of KNK Studio had drivers for the CR Pro and a couple other cutters, I no longer see them present in version 8.
> 
> Sandy McC


I confirmed this today. KNK Studio does not come with drivers to cut to other brands of cutters. It was listed as doing so on the web site however the product description was left over from Version 7 of the software, which is no longer sold.


----------



## plan b

Looks as if someone else just got off the phone....

Ok I just talked to the owner and he will make a statement later this week as he is comming off of a weeks vacation and is very busy, so here are a few tidbits,,

As far as the assumption that the graphtec logo is associated with that machine is completly false and one should really know the facts first, the reason why the Graphtec logo is there is because they are one of Graphtecs largests distributors and a authorized service center for Graphtec, one should just pick up the phone and give us a call if reports of this nature are made. The body of these machines are the same but the differences stop there, sure it has up to 950 grams of down force and like most machines you can dial it up and you have what you have,, the knk's also only have 2 mb of memory and the rhinestone application is just a little bit better than what you can do with corel draw and use any cutter.. on the other hand the Eagle of course as you stated that the cutter head has been repositioned for more accurate cutting , the cutter head and all moving parts have been beefed up over the other machine to take the pounding of that head moving up and down as much as it does,, if you have ever cut SS6 size of holes you would know what kind of accuracy that it takes do do this repeatedly all day long, also the Eagle is set up with a different motherboard, what happens is that we know that just one down pressure in a commercial setting just will not do the trick so thats why the Eagle and Falcon machine is computer controlled to know when to apply more down force during specific phases of the cut. These machines are built for speed, durability and accuracy. Will the knks cut the material? Yes. Will the holes come out perfect ? No Is the machine supported? Only for warranty and initial start up. Any on going training or operation support? Its paid support. Warranty 1 year. The Eagle and Falcon cuts material once dialed in perfect everytime, 4mb memory. Both Eagle and Falcon machines are supported and training provided virtually and phone. Eagle and Falcon has a full blown Rhinestone application with pre designed fonts include and free software upgrades as the software advances with more and more options, which is a on going development, the KNK will never get any more than it has. Is the KNK a good machine? Yes for what its main functions are meant to be. Its a ultra scrapbookers machine. Is the Eagle and Falcon a good machine? Yes these machines are built for heavy cutting and built to do it day end and day out. This is only a small section of what the Eagle and Falcon machine will do if anyone likes they can pm me and I will get in to other applications that can be done as the software handles many different things other than Rhinestones... So if you want a good all around cutter that does fair on stones with no automatic rhinestone fill functions etc, then by all means knk is the way to go.

If you want a heavy duty machine with a full blown rhinestone application and are serious about your business then the Eagle and Falcon is the way to go.


----------



## RolandASDRick

The software is based on CADLink Signlab software. Permaboss also uses this software and it is called RhinestoneWorx. The Roland R-WearStudio software is 1) easier to use, 2) has better capabilities and 3) much lower in price, $500 vs the $795 for the basic and $1595 for the Pro version of RhinestoneWorx. Although the cutter solution is slightly cheaper than the engraver solution for producing the rhinestone motif templates, the engraving method over the long haul is the better solution as the running costs (materials and blades) with the cutter solution will get you in the end. So when thinking about a rhinestone solution don't jump at the initial cost of the unit and take into account the running costs involved in the supplies and maintenance.


----------



## Girlzndollz

SandyMcC said:


> I confirmed this today. KNK Studio does not come with drivers to cut to other brands of cutters. It was listed as doing so on the web site however the product description was left over from Version 7 of the software, which is no longer sold.


Hi, and thanks, Sandy. I have a question or two about version 7 of the software. 

* Would version 7 work with a Graphte FC2100-50?

* When it was available/sold, was it ever sold alone, or was it only sold with the KNK as a package?

* What time frame was version 7 available during?

Thanks a ton. I am wondering if I can find something used out there, maybe something someone is no longer using, or upgraded from, that has version 7, and if I can buy that used, and will it work with my cutter, since it had the drivers.

Thanks alot for any help.


----------



## Girlzndollz

RolandASDRick said:


> The software is based on CADLink Signlab software.


Sorry for the confusion, but "what" software, Rick? The software for the KNK, the Eagle, both? Thanks.



> Although the cutter solution is slightly cheaper than the engraver solution for producing the rhinestone motif templates, the engraving method over the long haul is the better solution as the running costs (materials and blades) with the cutter solution will get you in the end. So when thinking about a rhinestone solution don't jump at the initial cost of the unit and take into account the running costs involved in the supplies and maintenance.


Hey Rick, again, looking for a little clarity. Are you suggesting a totally different machine/method than the KNK/Falcon/Eagle? I am just a little confused as I thought at least one, if not all, of these machines can engrave. Thanks.


----------



## SandyMcC

Girlzndollz said:


> Hi, and thanks, Sandy. I have a question or two about version 7 of the software.
> 
> * Would version 7 work with a Graphte FC2100-50?
> 
> * When it was available/sold, was it ever sold alone, or was it only sold with the KNK as a package?
> 
> * What time frame was version 7 available during?
> 
> Thanks a ton. I am wondering if I can find something used out there, maybe something someone is no longer using, or upgraded from, that has version 7, and if I can buy that used, and will it work with my cutter, since it had the drivers.
> 
> Thanks alot for any help.


Regarding Graphtec cutters, Version 7 of KNK Studio only cut to the CR Pro and the little Craft Robo 100. 

It was sold separately, but again only to those who were using it with those two particular Graphtec models. It was sold between November 2006 and November 2008.


----------



## sjidohair

SandyM and Roger,
Thank you for taking the time to check on the facts for us, straight from the Manufacture.
My eagle also has a metal engraver, for trophy and metal engraving, with upgrades,, does the KNK have that?
I also have a laser alignment for contour cutting, does the KNK have that?
I have 4 pinch rollers. How many does the knk have
I have 5 grit rollers to move the heavy material thru for proper feed,, How many does the knk have
I have not posted on this subject yet, as when i did my research it was over a year ago. when i made my decision for my Eagle. I am not sure if the KNK had updated or upgraded the machine since then, or heck mine could have been upgraded too lol since then.. I did pass up the knk machine as I knew i needed a machine that would last, for what i was using if for, I also wanted and needed the online support and interactive training.
I believe the knk is a awesome machine, but not for my purpose.
I have watched the videos with the software being used and there are differences. As well as 10 fonts, preloaded in software.
I believe the eagle and falcon have same software,,.I might be wrong and please correct me, if I am...
I would however purchase the knk for vinyl cutting, and specialty vinyl cutting. and for its other uses..which are alot,, This is like a baby falcon....
I feel it is important to get the right facts, about all the machines and products we can purchase.
So we can make the best decision we can and stretch our dollars as far as they can go. 
These are my opinions, from my use of the eagle and the research i did over a year ago.
Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## RolandASDRick

Sorry, I am talking about the Eagle software which is based on CADLink Signlab software with some additional rhinestone functionality built in. The Roland R-WearStudio was built specific for the Rhinestone application. Also a cutter cannot rotary engrave.


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## sjidohair

RolandASDRick said:


> The software is based on CADLink Signlab software. Permaboss also uses this software and it is called RhinestoneWorx. The Roland R-WearStudio software is 1) easier to use, 2) has better capabilities and 3) much lower in price, $500 vs the $795 for the basic and $1595 for the Pro version of RhinestoneWorx. Although the cutter solution is slightly cheaper than the engraver solution for producing the rhinestone motif templates, the engraving method over the long haul is the better solution as the running costs (materials and blades) with the cutter solution will get you in the end. So when thinking about a rhinestone solution don't jump at the initial cost of the unit and take into account the running costs involved in the supplies and maintenance.


I have used r-wear, and it does work for creating Rhinestone patterns, I also use Das. and some, others, 
Sandy Jo 
MMM


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## plan b

Only drag engrave, rotory is never represented


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## Girlzndollz

SandyMcC said:


> Regarding Graphtec cutters, Version 7 of KNK Studio only cut to the CR Pro and the little Craft Robo 100.


 
Thanks, Sandy. One more, please... does the Craft robo Pro (are we talking the CE5000 series?) have the downforce needed to cut the rhinestone template material adequately?

_Is this what people used the software and cutters for, or was it for other applications at the time?_ Thanks.


----------



## Girlzndollz

plan b said:


> Only drag engrave, rotory is never represented


 
With the Eagle/Falcon/KNK? Thanks._ I am not familiar w/engravers._


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## sjidohair

plan b said:


> Only drag engrave, rotory is never represented


I agree.. Wow we have a active subject here,,  kelly did you ever get your cutter going yet?
Sandy jo


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## plan b

sjidohair said:


> I agree.. Wow we have a active subject here,,  kelly did you ever get your cutter going yet?
> Sandy jo


I agree and it seems kinda of one sided too..


----------



## SandyMcC

Girlzndollz said:


> Thanks, Sandy. One more, please... does the Craft robo Pro (are we talking the CE5000 series?) have the downforce needed to cut the rhinestone template material adequately?
> 
> _Is this what people used the software and cutters for, or was it for other applications at the time?_ Thanks.


No, the KNK's and KNK Studio have been marketed to those in paper crafting and modeling hobbies and we get a LOT of scrapbookers buying them. We also have sold a lot to those interested in cutting vinyl, both indoor and outdoor applications. I also have KNK customers cutting acetate stencils, cupcake wrappers, elaborate wedding invitations, party bags and boxes, and on and on. There's a lot you can do. It's only recently that we decided to test them for cutting rhinestone template materials and discovered that for the home hobbyist, it would work fine. But if you are serious about doing it for a business, then a higher force cutter, like the Falcon or Eagle, is a better choice.

I cannot speak to the main uses for a Craft Robo Pro. There are some scrapbookers who have bought them in the past, but were not thrilled that they couldn't cut chipboard well. That's the litmus test now for the scrapbookers purchasing a digital die cutter... "What chipboard can I cut?" Anyhow, I've never operated a Craft Robo Pro... only the smaller 8" Craft Robo (which is also the Wishblade and Silhouette). These three are popular amongst the scrapbookers and KNK Studio has been a dream application for the kind of designing we want to do.


----------



## SandyMcC

sjidohair said:


> SandyM and Roger,
> Thank you for taking the time to check on the facts for us, straight from the Manufacture.
> My eagle also has a metal engraver, for trophy and metal engraving, with upgrades,, does the KNK have that?
> I also have a laser alignment for contour cutting, does the KNK have that?
> I have 4 pinch rollers. How many does the knk have
> I have 5 grit rollers to move the heavy material thru for proper feed,, How many does the knk have
> I have not posted on this subject yet, as when i did my research it was over a year ago. when i made my decision for my Eagle. I am not sure if the KNK had updated or upgraded the machine since then, or heck mine could have been upgraded too lol since then.. I did pass up the knk machine as I knew i needed a machine that would last, for what i was using if for, I also wanted and needed the online support and interactive training.
> I believe the knk is a awesome machine, but not for my purpose.
> I have watched the videos with the software being used and there are differences. As well as 10 fonts, preloaded in software.
> I believe the eagle and falcon have same software,,.I might be wrong and please correct me, if I am...
> I would however purchase the knk for vinyl cutting, and specialty vinyl cutting. and for its other uses..which are alot,, This is like a baby falcon....
> I feel it is important to get the right facts, about all the machines and products we can purchase.
> So we can make the best decision we can and stretch our dollars as far as they can go.
> These are my opinions, from my use of the eagle and the research i did over a year ago.
> Sandy Jo
> MMM


Q: My eagle also has a metal engraver, for trophy and metal engraving, with upgrades,, does the KNK have that?

A: You can separately purchase a drop-in engraving tip to replace the blade in the KNK Maxx blade holder and use it to engrave metal, hard acrylic, and vellum. Naturally, the Eagle, with so much more force, will be able to engrave harder materials than the Maxx.

Q: I also have a laser alignment for contour cutting, does the KNK have that?

A: Yes, the Maxx models both come with the same laser alignment and same software functionality for accurate contour cutting, which I refer to in the user manuals, as Print and Cut. Instead of a laser alignment light, the KNK Groove-E comes with an alignment pin that fits near the blade holder, but otherwise performs the same way.

Q: I have 4 pinch rollers. How many does the knk have

A: The Groove-E has 2. The two Maxx models have 3.

Q: I have 5 grit rollers to move the heavy material thru for proper feed,, How many does the knk have

A: The Groove-E and 15" Maxx have 4 and the 24" Maxx has 5.

Q: I have not posted on this subject yet, as when i did my research it was over a year ago. when i made my decision for my Eagle. I am not sure if the KNK had updated or upgraded the machine since then, or heck mine could have been upgraded too lol since then.. I did pass up the knk machine as I knew i needed a machine that would last, for what i was using if for, I also wanted and needed the online support and interactive training.

A: The KNK customers have to be very careful about the dealer they choose as there's a wide range in competency, as well as the level of service they provide. 


Q: I believe the knk is a awesome machine, but not for my purpose.

A: I agree completely! For a serious business application... for anyone wanting to cut rhinestone templates "all day long", you would want the Eagle which can cut accurate small circles at a much higher speed. 

Q: I have watched the videos with the software being used and there are differences. As well as 10 fonts, preloaded in software.

A: ACS Studio has a particular fill feature not available in KNK Studio. And yes, those buying an Eagle or Falcon, receive 10 rhinestone fonts, in addition to the 1100+ fonts that come on a CD. The KNK customers only receive the 1100+ fonts... not the rhinestone fonts.

Q: I believe the eagle and falcon have same software,,.I might be wrong and please correct me, if I am...

A: That's correct... the Eagle and Falcon both come with ACS Studio and there is no difference.

Hope this helps!

Sandy McC


----------



## sunnydayz

Sandyjo


> I also wanted and needed the online support and interactive training


 I believe from one of SandyM's posts she stated that they do have  free additional classes by phone/VNC, as well as free assistance with designing files, free videos, etc (The VNC I would imagine means _Virtual Network Computing_) so it does seem support is available depending on who you buy from.

Sandyjo


> I have watched the videos with the software being used and there are differences. As well as 10 fonts, preloaded in software.


 I tried using just a standard Arial font on the demo and was able to make it a rhinestone font no problem. I think anyone who has design program experience can figure this out quiet easily. I never really worry about fonts so much as they are very easy to work with and not a big deal. You can pretty much get fonts that will work from just about any font place.

Rick



> The software is based on CADLink Signlab software. Permaboss also uses this software and it is called RhinestoneWorx.


 _I also seen this software and it does apprear the to be the same platform as well as the eagle and KnK_

Sandyjo


> kelly did you ever get your cutter going yet?


 I dont think this has anything to do with whether there might be an alternate solution for some members, did you ever think maybe she is asking about the software to do exactly
that?
 
Roger


> I agree and it seems kinda of one sided too..


 Roger can you explain how putting information out there for others to make their own decisions on is one sided? My thinking here is that the majority of members here do no want to make rhinestone templates for selling, they simply want to make templates to apply rhinestones to their own clothing lines.
This seems to me to be a great option for those people. Its not like they are going to be making hundreds of templates a day, but maybe 5 or 10 even,this seems like it would ge a great option at that price of the cheaper machine. For instance, Sandy Jo sells her templates starting at $30 a piece so if someone were to be able to make their own templates instead of having to order them, well they would pay for their machine after making roughly 50 templates. 

This to me seems a very realistic goal for a lot of our members here, and I think could be a great alternative. Not everyone wants to go into the business of making and selling templates, in fact I think the majority here just want an option to make their own templates for their own lines or orders for shirts they may get. 

For instance if some one gets an order for 100 shirts that say California girl in rhinestones, they can then make one template to make those hundred shirts, therefore not having to turn the job away, or send out for a custom template from someone else. This is what I am talking about.

I guess my point again is showing all the option, thus not being one sided but having choices, its not only about making templates for sale


----------



## sjidohair

Bobbie lee, the reason i posted about Kelly getting her cutter going yet, is I have tried to help her in the past get it going, and seeing she had a interest in the rhinestones, if she had not,, that Island girl, had one up in the classifieds, to get her going on Rhinestones,. that would be even less expensive than the knk system.
Sandy Jo


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## sunnydayz

sjidohair said:


> Bobbie lee, the reason i posted about Kelly getting her cutter going yet, is I have tried to help her in the past get it going, and seeing she had a interest in the rhinestones, if she had not,, that Island girl, had one up in the classifieds, to get her going on Rhinestones,. that would be even less expensive than the knk system.
> Sandy Jo


I guess I must have mistook all the tounge sticking out smiley faces to not be a serious question.


----------



## DTFuqua

Girlzndollz said:


> Thanks, Sandy. One more, please... does the Craft robo Pro (are we talking the CE5000 series?) have the downforce needed to cut the rhinestone template material adequately?
> 
> _Is this what people used the software and cutters for, or was it for other applications at the time?_ Thanks.


 Hi Kelly. My Graphtec CE5000-60 does very well at cutting the sandblast material a lot of people say they use for their templates. Its the Hartco sand blast material. I have cut very delicate designs in the sandblast mask for sandblasting wooden signs and it does a wonderful job. I did get the red top blade holder and 60 degree blade for ti to cut sandblast masking with. I am hoping to take Cathy to a few markets when the weather cools a little here in the south, hence the questions about the ladies apparel questions I posted else where. Hope this helps.
Terry


----------



## Girlzndollz

SandyMcC said:


> It's only recently that we decided to test them for cutting rhinestone template materials and discovered that for the home hobbyist, it would work fine.


Great, thanks, that answers probably my "biggest" question. 

My main interest is in the finished template. From what I can see, it seems the KNK and the Eagle use the same rubber template material:

KNK:
Scrapbookdiecutter.com: 12.5" x 15' roll of Black Rhinestone<br>Motif Template rubber

Eagle:
Template Materials

If that is true, and the KNK can adequately cut a template fine, then, as long as there isn't anything else I need to know, that sounds great.

I already asked Sandy Jo how long her templates last, and at that time, one of Sandy Jo's templates were on 1,000+ uses.  Oh, it was in this thread! http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t78625-2.html#post467674

So I am getting really happy here. 

Thanks for all the great info... from everyone. I really am looking forward to the post from the mfg, too. 



> KNK Studio has been a dream application for the kind of designing we want to do.


Well, it may be a dream for us, too. I am glad you tested it for rhinestone templates.


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## dan-ann

Well I am hoping it can be used for someone like me who just wants to make templates for my own use in my business and not sell them. My life would be much easier and the cost within my budget. After purchasing a couple mulit needle embroidery machines and all the trimmings. I don't think I am into spending 3-4 thousand on another machine and I appreciate all the info that has been brought forth here- thanks so much to everyone


----------



## Girlzndollz

DTFuqua said:


> Hi Kelly. My Graphtec CE5000-60 does very well at cutting the sandblast material a lot of people say they use for their templates. Its the Hartco sand blast material. I have cut very delicate designs in the sandblast mask for sandblasting wooden signs and it does a wonderful job.


This stuff, Terry? http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t87349-2.html#post520339

And, thank so much for the info in your post. I now wonder if the Hartco stuff will also go thru the KNK machine. (?)

New KNK question because of that thread:
There is a question in that thread (above) about how long the cutters (Graphtecs-300gf/Pumas-400gf) will last from cutting the heavy duty material. 

Is this a concern where the KNK is involved, since it cuts rubber template material with a 950 downforce?


----------



## plan b

Well its not as simple as just making templates for your own line, I would say that there are less expensive methods than the KNK machine , is it a alternative? yes, however I think the idea is to work smarter and not harder, you even heard it from Sandy that its not the best solution but you keep trying to hammer out your point, as a matter of fact as a direct result of this thread there is something that we discussed today and will come out later this week with a real alternative, matter of fact Bobbie Lee we not only defended a cutter line today but at the end of the day we listened also, so i think I may have to thank you for this thread because it will open up to a more inexpensive way so everyone will be able to afford a system with great software. (Not talking about the KNK system)


----------



## plan b

Girlzndollz said:


> This stuff, Terry? http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t87349-2.html#post520339
> 
> And, thank so much for the info in your post. I now wonder if the Hartco stuff will also go thru the KNK machine. (?)
> 
> New KNK question because of that thread:
> There is a question in that thread (above) about how long the cutters (Graphtecs-300gf/Pumas-400gf) will last from cutting the heavy duty material.
> 
> Is this a concern where the KNK is involved, since it cuts rubber template material with a 950 downforce?


Well lets put it this way, it would be like driving your car at full speed every time you drive it,, how long do you think it will last?


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## Girlzndollz

plan b said:


> Well lets put it this way, it would be like driving your car at full speed every time you drive it,, how long do you think it will last?


Roger, I am sorry but that is not a real answer.


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## plan b

The reasoning is that one machine is built to run at full speed all day and the others are not, you cannot take a machine that is not built for that and expect it to last, there is no way to know how long but it will be a lot less than normal cutting..


----------



## Girlzndollz

plan b said:


> The reasoning is that one machine is built to run at full speed all day and the others are not, you cannot take a machine that is not built for that and expect it to last, there is no way to know how long but it will be a lot less than normal cutting..


 
Thanks, that makes alot more sense about what you are trying to explain.

Probably my question could be clearer, too.  I will ask it again later, and phrase it better when I do. It's not that important right now. 

Right now, just learning about the differences and the real intended uses/purpose for these cutters is way more important.


----------



## sjidohair

Girlzndollz said:


> Right now, just learning about the differences and the real intended uses/purpose for these cutters is way more important.


I totally agree with that statment kelly
sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## DTFuqua

Girlzndollz said:


> This stuff, Terry? http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t87349-2.html#post520339


Hi Kelly. Yep, thats the stuff. Cuts like butterwhen using the right blade and holder.. And for Rodger(?), This sandblast mask doesn't tax my cutter at all. My Graphtec is a very good machine and I have no doubt that it will last a good many years.


----------



## sportkids

Some good, valid points Bobbie Lee. I have been to 2 trade shows in the last 3 months, and Bob is correct, only one manufacturer is showing their equipment. I looked on my Graphtech and it is made in Japan. I appreciated Rick's comments as well; food for thought. I am hoping someone from Graphtec will chime in, or another forum member who is using a Graphtec machine to cut rhinestone templates. This is a major purchase and all of these posts are beneficial. ALL information posted here will no doubt assist us who are planning to make this purchase in the near future. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to research and report! Bobbie Lee; rhinestone designer by day; investigative reporter by night! (I know insomnia seems to be a prereq for anyone who decorates apparel! lol)


----------



## bfgraphics

dan-ann said:


> Well I am hoping it can be used for someone like me who just wants to make templates for my own use in my business and not sell them. My life would be much easier and the cost within my budget. After purchasing a couple mulit needle embroidery machines and all the trimmings. I don't think I am into spending 3-4 thousand on another machine and I appreciate all the info that has been brought forth here- thanks so much to everyone


The "best" machine or software will not be the same for each of us, especially if we think about what else we would use the machine for if the rhinestone market eventually fizzles..

If there is truly a difference in construction and one machine is "beefier" than the others, despite the outward appearance, and if there is a better warranty and support available, then it will be an excellent discussion topic, which I look forward to. The important thing is to know and understand (try to understand) the facts and the options that are available. I for one appreciate the distributor(s) being willing to tell their side of the story. Then it is up to us to weigh what they are saying vs other vendors
and try to make the most intelligent choice.
I also appreciate the research on alternatives that has reignited this thread. 
The cheapest may or may not necessarily be the best choice, but then again, neither might the most expensive. Several folks have mentioned that a couple thousand dollar difference will make the difference of whether they can buy now or not. I certainly understand that, and I also understand that the market for rhinestones is HOT right now. No one knows how long it will last.
This is a great thread and I hope the distributors that are reading this understand that there is a lot of confusion on this topic, especially with different vendors claiming that THEIR machine, software or "system" is the "BEST". There is even a claim that one of them "invented" this technology. Vendors should not take the quest for the the facts personal, or as an attack on their credibility if they ARE credible. It's no different than the hype about the "best" car, $5 sandwich, embroidery machine or cell phone carrier. Folks here are on a mission to spend wisely and get the most for their hard earned bucks.
Bob


----------



## DTFuqua

sportkids said:


> Some good, valid points Bobbie Lee. I have been to 2 trade shows in the last 3 months, and Bob is correct, only one manufacturer is showing their equipment. I looked on my Graphtech and it is made in Japan. I appreciated Rick's comments as well; food for thought. I am hoping someone from Graphtec will chime in, or another forum member who is using a Graphtec machine to cut rhinestone templates. This is a major purchase and all of these posts are beneficial. ALL information posted here will no doubt assist us who are planning to make this purchase in the near future. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to research and report! Bobbie Lee; rhinestone designer by day; investigative reporter by night! (I know insomnia seems to be a prereq for anyone who decorates apparel! lol)


 Made in Japan doesn't carry the stigma that it did back in the 60's. Now days, made in Japan is generally a good thing. I have cut the sandblast mask that people are using for making the rhinestone templates and as I said, it cuts like butter. My biggest problem is being lazy and wanting the software to do all the hard work for me. I like the way the "Sandy " videos show the software working for the KNK and I like it being around $200 (would rather it be like $50) I may wind up buying the Roland R-Ware software if the KNK Studio doesn't fit the bill but I'll wait a little longer before purchasing the software to see what develops .


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## sjidohair

Bob, 
I agree with you.. we have many machines that will do the job, and many software providers that will do the job, and once we get these tools in our hands it is up to us to make them work for us.. and one day the rhinestone business will fizzle back to what it was, we will be left with machines, hopefully that will do other things with on our buisness's. as we move on to.. the next thing.
Great post Bob.
Sandy jo
MMM


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## sportkids

Hi Roger,
I have appreciated your opinions and knowledge as well. Do you have any info on upcoming trade shows where the Eagle and Falcon will be demonstrated? Is the KNK machines shown at CHAA shows since they are marketed to scrapbookers? I like the option of a learning day, but wouldn't want to listen to scrapbookin' questions. Perhaps the ACS people might consider this for hands on, visual learners? Anxiously awaiting the announcement for another alternative solution. I know Bobbie Lee opened the "can of worms," but her "investigative reporting" has provided a wealth of info and prompted questions and comments. Thanks.


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## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> .... when i did my research it was over a year ago. when i made my decision for my Eagle. ... I did pass up the knk machine as I knew i needed a machine that would last, for what i was using if for, I also wanted and needed the online support and interactive training.
> 
> I believe the knk is a awesome machine, but not for my purpose. These are my opinions, from my use of the eagle and the research i did over a year ago.


Awww, do you mean you saw the KNK machine _a year ago _when you were looking for your template making machine, when picked the Eagle instead?  I didn't pick that up at first. Oh, wow. I would have loved to have heard about this KNK option back then.


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## sjidohair

yep,,, like i said it is a great machine the knk , for what it is made for.. 
I also burned out a us cutter trying to cut template material, for templates, before i got my eagle so i know how it is to over use a machine. I did it. 
sandy jo


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## sportkids

ah..ha! mighty expensive lesson. Your point is well taken and can see where you are coming from. You are truly a rhinestone pioneer!


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## DTFuqua

While I bought my Graphtec from USCutter, don't think ist is in the same category as the refines or copams. While I think the copam is a better machine than the refines, it isn't in the same class as the Graphtec. The Graphtec is among the highest quality machines you can get without mortaging the grandkids to pay for it.


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## plan b

sportkids said:


> Hi Roger,
> I have appreciated your opinions and knowledge as well. Do you have any info on upcoming trade shows where the Eagle and Falcon will be demonstrated? Is the KNK machines shown at CHAA shows since they are marketed to scrapbookers? I like the option of a learning day, but wouldn't want to listen to scrapbookin' questions. Perhaps the ACS people might consider this for hands on, visual learners? Anxiously awaiting the announcement for another alternative solution. I know Bobbie Lee opened the "can of worms," but her "investigative reporting" has provided a wealth of info and prompted questions and comments. Thanks.


I am going to let Sandy M answer this as I don't work in that division.


----------



## plan b

DTFuqua said:


> While I bought my Graphtec from USCutter, don't think ist is in the same category as the refines or copams. While I think the copam is a better machine than the refines, it isn't in the same class as the Graphtec. The Graphtec is among the highest quality machines you can get without mortaging the grandkids to pay for it.


Glad to hear that!!


----------



## plan b

sportkids said:


> Hi Roger,
> I have appreciated your opinions and knowledge as well. Do you have any info on upcoming trade shows where the Eagle and Falcon will be demonstrated? Is the KNK machines shown at CHAA shows since they are marketed to scrapbookers? I like the option of a learning day, but wouldn't want to listen to scrapbookin' questions. Perhaps the ACS people might consider this for hands on, visual learners? Anxiously awaiting the announcement for another alternative solution. I know Bobbie Lee opened the "can of worms," but her "investigative reporting" has provided a wealth of info and prompted questions and comments. Thanks.


Depending on the show but it looks as of now that we will do most of the ISS shows this coming year.


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## dan-ann

plan b said:


> Depending on the show but it looks as of now that we will do most of the ISS shows this coming year.


+++++++++++++++Does this mean the eagle and Falcon will be in Schaumburg next week? 
or are you talking 2010

Gosh this year would be awesome


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## plan b

No next year


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## accu4321

Hello All
This is my first post to this Forum. We are the manufacturer of the KNK Maxx,Falcon,and Eagle Ultraforce machines.
I have been reading many of the post and see many questions regarding our machines . I will watch this thread and try and answer as many questions as I can. 
Thank You


Gary


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## bfgraphics

DTFuqua said:


> While I bought my Graphtec from USCutter, don't think ist is in the same category as the refines or copams. While I think the copam is a better machine than the refines, it isn't in the same class as the Graphtec. The Graphtec is among the highest quality machines you can get without mortaging the grandkids to pay for it.


US Cutter is a distributor, and they sell different brands of machines, not all made by the same company. They CLEARLY describe on their web page the expectations and the recommendations of cutters for each level of use.
I have not purchased a machine from them, but have purchased vinyl and supplies and received excellent service, price and super fast delivery. I would not hesitate to recommend to others a company that treated me well. US does have a huge forum with a lot of members to hear feedback from.
US is up front with the fact that some of the "bargain" cutters are not meant for production use. But we all know folks who used a bargain cutter to get into the business and to either make money to buy a better cutter or to decide if they really wanted to offer a particular cutter-related service. Might not be a bad way to go for some, as opposed to buying a high buck machine then trying to sell it used on ebay. I did notice that US cutter lists spare parts and prices on their web page, so you can check up front to see the cost of a stepper motor is only $50, main board is $80 and power supply is $40 for the bargain basement machines. So if you burn up a motor and you are not under warranty, not a big deal.
I would ask these questions of any other company that you consider buying a "cheap" cutter from. Are spare parts readily available, and what do they cost?
Not everyone here is willing to tackle a motor or board replacement, but there are also many who ARE, in order to get into a cutter for less money to start out.

In addition to buying the "right" machine, the help and service from the vendor is key in the decision of not only WHAT to buy, but where to buy from.
When I almost decided on a machine, I changed my decision because a particular company gave me very poor customer service not once, but twice on a small order.
I viewed this as a preview of upcoming customer service had I bought an expensive machine from them.
I go out of my way to help my customers but I know that mistakes can happen. I made certain that the poor service was a conscious effort and not just an oversite before I scratched them as a poor choice.
I figured that if they screwed me on a $50 order, they probably will not have any better service after they had my $3-4K.

There is a lot to consider in the decision to buy a machine. Maybe I overthink too much, but I find forums like this and the experience of others invaluable in making these key decisions. It's amazing what we can learn from the Internet,


----------



## Rodney

bfgraphics said:


> The "best" machine or software will not be the same for each of us, especially if we think about what else we would use the machine for if the rhinestone market eventually fizzles.
> 
> This is a great thread and I hope the distributors that are reading this understand that there is a lot of confusion on this topic, especially with different vendors claiming that THEIR machine, software or "system" is the "BEST". There is even a claim that one of them "invented" this technology. Vendors should not take the quest for the the facts personal, or as an attack on their credibility if they ARE credible. It's no different than the hype about the "best" car, $5 sandwich, embroidery machine or cell phone carrier. Folks here are on a mission to spend wisely and get the most for their hard earned bucks


Great points Bob. I think that once the facts are cleared up about the different machines and options, it will be helpful to all.

Not everyone wants a less expensive machine and not everyone wants the most expensive machine option. Just like some will be fine with sub $200 Sunie press and others will want a $1000+ auto-everything heat press. One size doesn't fit all.


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## RolandASDRick

Looks like the KNK, Eagle and DAS products are nothing more than redesigned GCC cutters (correct me if I'm wrong). The majority of cutters on the market are capable of cutting rhinestone templates as long as they have the right tool and pressure (I've found anything with 180GF or better is more than enough to handle this).

After looking closer at the Advanced Cutting Systems product they look like the Chinese made Foison cutters and not GCC afterall. Also, the ACS Design Studio software is definately based on SignLab from CADLink.


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## dan-ann

Hi Gary - welcome 

Hopefully you will be able to help many of us make decisions as to which machine would be best for us

sally


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## accu4321

Hello
None of our machines are redesigned GCC. 
Our machines have a Flatbed attached to the plotter to allow for better cutting of rigid products. Our 1500 gram machine will cut thick tackle twill ,we have also cut .040" Polypropylene stencils. We wanted to design a machine that was open to many industries and not obsolete when the Fads fizzle. We have our own Rhinestone stencil material, we had it made Black and it has a surface that is slicker than the Hartco mask . This allows the stones to slide and drop better than the Green Hartco. It also has a price advantage .
We have 30 years experience in the cutter business with a full service and repair facility. 
Best Regards
Gary


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## SandyMcC

I have sold hundreds of KNK’s over the past 3 years and I also moderate or own the majority of the KNK support groups and message boards…. So, I know a LOT of the owners out there. What has always impressed me with Accugraphic’s support and repair is that it is prompt. Murphy’s Law dictates that your cutter will have a problem at the worst possible time and on occasion, I will have a customer freaking out over the thought that he/she might have to send their KNK in for repair. But Accugraphic will always do their best to handle the diagnosis and repair over the phone and even ship a replacement part to the customer. Even if the customer is not comfortable with the repair, a friend/neighbor/family member can often be asked to come over, speak to Accugraphic by phone, and get the repair done. In the event that a KNK needs to be shipped back to Accugraphic, their turn-around time has ALWAYS been 1-3 business days. I don’t recall them ever taking longer than that. 



Sandy McC


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## sjidohair

Gary,, It is awesome to have you on here, to best describe, which machine is best for which purpose, so everyone can make the best decision, for thier needs..
Thanks for taking the time 
Sandy Jo


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## accu4321

Hello there Sandy Jo
Thanks for the nice response. 
We will sure do our best ! Our machines can do many different things including Drag engraving on Aluminum and Brass for Trophies and Plaques (with our optional tool)...we strive to give diversity with our products. 


Thanks Again
Gary


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## sunnydayz

SandyMcC said:


> I have sold hundreds of KNK’s over the past 3 years and I also moderate or own the majority of the KNK support groups and message boards…. So, I know a LOT of the owners out there. What has always impressed me with Accugraphic’s support and repair is that it is prompt. Murphy’s Law dictates that your cutter will have a problem at the worst possible time and on occasion, I will have a customer freaking out over the thought that he/she might have to send their KNK in for repair. But Accugraphic will always do their best to handle the diagnosis and repair over the phone and even ship a replacement part to the customer. Even if the customer is not comfortable with the repair, a friend/neighbor/family member can often be asked to come over, speak to Accugraphic by phone, and get the repair done. In the event that a KNK needs to be shipped back to Accugraphic, their turn-around time has ALWAYS been 1-3 business days. I don’t recall them ever taking longer than that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sandy McC


Hi Sandy 

I have a question for you. I keep seeing the knk machine listed as a hobby machine by several people. To me a Hobby machine is a machine that is used every so often by that stay at home mom that does her scrap books to make memories of her kids. But in fact don't alot of hobbiest make goods that they sell at craft and art fairs? Do you have customers that use their machines this way. That they make their wares and sell them at fairs? I know I have sold at many of these type of shows, and have seen many products that appear to be like the pictures of what can be done with the KNK. 

If someone were making templates a few at a time, not hundreds or thousands, but to make their own garments or making one template to apply a design to many shirts, do you see this as being a viable option?

Do you have any idea on average how long these knk machines have lasted with your customers?

Thanks


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## sunnydayz

accu4321 said:


> Hello there Sandy Jo
> Thanks for the nice response.
> We will sure do our best ! Our machines can do many different things including Drag engraving on Aluminum and Brass for Trophies and Plaques (with our optional tool)...we strive to give diversity with our products.
> 
> 
> Thanks Again
> Gary



Hi Gary and thanks so much for joining the discussion as I am sure it will clear up alot of questions 

I do have a question for you. I keep seeing the knk machines listed as hobby machines, yet when looking at the specs, most of them are higher graded then say the Graphtec and some other cutters. Can you tell me with these specs that rate higher then some commercial machines, what is it that is not as good as them that makes them categorized as hobby? I think this is where I am getting confused with this, is that the specs look so much better on the knk then some other machines, yet it keeps being referred to as for hobbies.

I actually just got rid of my graphtec CE5000 - 60 a couple of weeks ago, and it was a work horse for sure. In the future I am thinking I will get back into the cutting of materials, and it seems that the Knk with its specs is a great machine.


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## plan b

SandyMcC said:


> I have sold hundreds of KNK’s over the past 3 years and I also moderate or own the majority of the KNK support groups and message boards…. So, I know a LOT of the owners out there. What has always impressed me with Accugraphic’s support and repair is that it is prompt. Murphy’s Law dictates that your cutter will have a problem at the worst possible time and on occasion, I will have a customer freaking out over the thought that he/she might have to send their KNK in for repair. But Accugraphic will always do their best to handle the diagnosis and repair over the phone and even ship a replacement part to the customer. Even if the customer is not comfortable with the repair, a friend/neighbor/family member can often be asked to come over, speak to Accugraphic by phone, and get the repair done. In the event that a KNK needs to be shipped back to Accugraphic, their turn-around time has ALWAYS been 1-3 business days. I don’t recall them ever taking longer than that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sandy McC


Sandy,
I have to agree with you , these guy's really care. One would have to think that a some point in time they were in that same "freaked out" position that we all face from time to time and decided to make a difference.


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## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> Hi Sandy
> 
> I have a question for you. I keep seeing the knk machine listed as a hobby machine by several people. To me a Hobby machine is a machine that is used every so often by that stay at home mom that does her scrap books to make memories of her kids. But in fact don't alot of hobbiest make goods that they sell at craft and art fairs? Do you have customers that use their machines this way. That they make their wares and sell them at fairs? I know I have sold at many of these type of shows, and have seen many products that appear to be like the pictures of what can be done with the KNK.
> 
> If someone were making templates a few at a time, not hundreds or thousands, but to make their own garments or making one template to apply a design to many shirts, do you see this as being a viable option?
> 
> Do you have any idea on average how long these knk machines have lasted with your customers?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, I have customers who use their KNK's to make things to sell at fairs or on E-Bay. Off the top of my head (and this is mostly a repeat of what I already answered in an earlier post), this includes: acetate stencils, vinyl wall words, vinyl car window decorations, cardstock die cuts, chipboard die cuts, ornate greeting cards, gift boxes and bags, and so on.

Our KNK's first came out in November 2006 and I have original customers who are still cutting daily. Note that our original KNK's were 500g cutters and then the new Maxx, with 950g was introduced last December. There is no indication that these machines "fall apart" with time. This is not your Mama's Cricut! 

Speaking of Cricut, that reminds me... our software will import PDF's.... if the PDF was created from a vector image, then no tracing is required. There are loads of free PDF catalogs on the Internet and many of these ARE vectors, thus the resource of free files is incredible. Now, in most cases, copyright would prevent someone from using the images to create designs to sell, but for the hobbyist, making things for themselves or to give away as gifts, these PDF's have provided us a great resource of free cutting files. Note that the software will also import .eps, .dxf, .ai, .wmf and other vector formats... as well as the standard raster formats to auto-trace or manually trace. But the PDF's have really been an added treasure chest and my customers are always finding new ones to share.

Sandy McC


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## Girlzndollz

SandyMcC said:


> Note that our original KNK's were 500g cutters and then the new Maxx, with 950g was introduced last December. There is no indication that these machines "fall apart" with time. This is not your Mama's Cricut!


Lol.  Okay, this sounds very good, and thank you for the info. I have seen the older KNK's out there. I read a review on a blog, and the pic was of a yellow and black one simply labeled Klik-N-Kut. So, now I know that *only* the KNKMaxx has the 950g.



SandyMcC said:


> ... Note that the software will also import .eps, .dxf, .ai, .wmf and other vector formats... as well as the standard raster formats to auto-trace or manually trace.


Sandy, I did buy Coreldraw to use with my cutter. I still have to learn how to work in this program. I am a newb in this area, so I just want to confirm, pls, will the KNK cut things I make in Corel? 

Part of the *big, huge* attraction to the KNK, for me, is the ease of use of the software. _I've watched your videos on YouTube, Sandy._  What you are doing in the vids is all I want to do. It looks *so* easy, which of course, is inline with everything we've already been told about the software. 

But, knowing that I already have the Corel, it's nice to know that if I do want to put the time in to learn it, I can create there and import. So I just want to confirm that. Thanks!! 




accu4321 said:


> I will watch this thread and try and answer as many questions as I can. Thank You Gary


Hi Gary, and :welcome: 

Thanks for helping out with the info. I'm not sure if we are supposed to be waiting for a post, like the comparisons or something, or do you want us to just go ahead and ask some questions? 

Thanks alot, Kelly


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## accu4321

Hello Bobbielee
We are Graphtec Dealers so I can speak fairly intelligently to compare.
I spoke in a previous post about having flat beds. When a Rigid or Semi rigid material is cut and the material is cantilevered over the round platen ,the material has a tendency to lift the blade holder and lessen the amount of blade inserted into the material when it returns to the center it will now cut all the way through. This spells inconsistency of cut. Graphtec makes a great machine even though it is now made in China. 
We tested and found that our Flat Bed really can help in the consistency field. They are removable if one desires to.
KNK 
Our KNK machine was built with high end Crafters in mind. There are a few differences wich I will pont out.
1. Eagle has a 4 meg buffer KNK 1 meg
2.Eagle cutting head is placed much closer to the pinch wheels, this is to make the cut more accurate. When cutting thick materials with higher force the substate has the tendency to bow up and deflect if it is farther away. So the hole will be more accurately round with the Eagle. 
3.The Grit rollers on the Eagle are wider for the first segment, about 3.5" for the first one.The KNK Maxx Rollers are all 1"
4.The Eagle now comes with a $750 starter kit....this is a large part of the cost difference.
5.Software.... 10 Free Rhinestone fonts come withe the Eagle Software. The Eagle Software has many more fill types for more design capability. The Eagle Software will have upgrades available for Rhinestones and the KNK Maxx Software will not
6. These are just some of the tangable differences ,other differences are business decisions like how much after support we will give to an Industrial customer as apposed to a Crafter. We need to build in costs to pay for our time and they can differ. 
7.Force Eagle up to 1500 grams Maxx up to 950 grams.
We have seen many plotters over the years with head coils burn't up from over using a machine that was not designed to handle constant heavy abuse. That is one of the reasons you see our Force so high.

If you slow the Maxx down it will do a respectable job for Rhinestone Motifs however the Eagle will give you more production. I would sugest that if one was not going to use a Maxx as a full time Rhinestone Motif maker it would satisfy many. I do however believe it is important to get the full ACS Design Studio for making the Motifs.
We will be offereing this package of ACS Design Studio and a Maxx cutter in the very near future for a lesser than Eagle or Falcon pricing respective to the machine size.
All of our ACS and Maxx cutters have a Pen Jaw that will hold a knife holder as well as Markers,Pens and other instruments up to 3/4" in Diameter. 
They all will cut Vinyl and T shirt transfer etc....

Sorry this was so long winded ...I'm sure there will be many more questions. 
We reserve the right to change specifications .
Best Regards
Gary


----------



## Girlzndollz

Girlzndollz said:


> or do you want us to just go ahead and ask some questions?


Okay, I only have a limited amount of time on the computer today, so if it's okay, I'm just going to go ahead and ask my first question. 


**********************************************



SandyMcC said:


> It's only recently that we decided to test them for cutting rhinestone template materials and discovered that for the home hobbyist, it would work fine.


 
Dear SandyMcC and Gary,

Obviously, this machine was being used for a different intended purpose originally. 

What was it about the KNKMaxx machine that originally prompted the idea to test it for cutting rhinestone template material? 

Thanks, Kelly =)


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## DTFuqua

First thing is my Graphtec is less than a year old and has "made in japan" on it. It is a good cutter. Now to why I am posting this time. I quit being lazy for a short time and did the work to make a simple template with the Hartco sand mask. I only have the cheap rhinestones that aren't as good and consistent as some of the better ones but I used them anyway. The only problems I had were making the art work and weeding all those tiny dots.Cutting took less than 3 minutes from clicking the cut/plot button to turning off the cutter. It took less than 2 minutes to do all the stones by sliding them around with my finger. I'm slow so someone with dexterity and with practice and/or one of those sliding brushes will likely be faster. Here are a couple of pictures of the results.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Looks great, Terry!! Thanks for showing what can be done!  I didn't realize everyone had come so far with making the templates with their own cutters (I dropped out of those threads a while ago.) Nice job. What software did you use?


----------



## DTFuqua

Just Corel Draw and the Cutting master plug in to cut with. Actually, this is the first rhinestone template I have even tried making with my cutter. I just knew I could do it from the results I had making masks for sandblasting.


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## Girlzndollz

Hey Terry, after all this time, my hub got my cutter set up and cutting last night.  Seems this thread is prompting alot of put off projects!!  Thanks for the info on Corel and the Cutting master plug in. Where would I get that plug in? Thanks again, Terry, and great job on your first template.  Dolphins are awesome!! =)


----------



## sportkids

AW... They should come to Chicago!! Bet they could still get a cheap flight here. With all of this buzz on the forum, bet they would sell a FEW machines! (If they aren't able to come, just send on the equipment and we will sell for them in the Convention Center parking lot! LOL!!)


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## bfgraphics

Terry,

Very nice!!!
I am sure with a change in settings or possibly another blade that you can get close to a "no weed'
result. Thanks for sharing.

Bob


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## sjidohair

kelly woohooo on your cutter,, Now if i can help you, please ask,, 
sandy jo


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## sportkids

Great info Sandy! I like your training classes and support. That is why I would buy from you! I am confused, a bit though. If you buy the "souped up" Eagle or Falcon, is it the same software as the Maxx? Do you offer the on-line training classes and support w/the Eagle and Falcon?


----------



## DTFuqua

Hi Kelly. The cutting master plug-in for Corel Draw is generaly on the disk that came with the cutter. Graphtec cutter that is. If you don't have the disk, you can download it from Graphtec America: Cutting Plotters, Vinyl Cutters, InkJet Printers, Wide Format Image Scanners, Data Loggers, Acquisition platforms, Electronic Testing Instruments, Craft Robo. You did get the Graphtec cutter didn't you?
Hi Bob. I have the red top blade holder and 60 degree blade for the graphtec. I get almost a no weed cut for the sandblast mask doing text and graphics for actual sandblasting but the little tiny circles are a little harder to get away from the main body of the mask. I might try one of the Clean Cut Blades (if that is the correct one I'm thinking about) someday but this works pretty good. Complete cuts and all.


----------



## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> kelly woohooo on your cutter,, Now if i can help you, please ask,,sandy jo


SandyJo, he was setting it up when you asked! Just making sure it cuts! But, not really for me to use it, that all depends on how all of this goes. That's why I am here. 

I *really* want to know what this KNKMaxx *is*. I seem to understand what it "*isn't*" at this point, but I am not sure I am getting a clear picture of what it "*is*". 

So far, the posts that have been made are not really getting to the heart of "my" questions, though they are very informative for what they are. 

I am hoping between SandyMcC and Gary, I'll be able to ask what I would like to know. I hope someone comes back soon, but there's no rush. I am just excited, that's all. 




sunnydayz said:


> ... there might be an alternate solution for some members, did you ever think maybe [Kelly] is asking about the software to do exactly that?


Bobbielee was right when she said this ^^. I just didn't get a chance to tell you yesterday - too many other posts coming in that I wanted to learn about first. 

But that's pretty much what I am doing here -- checking this machine out for someone like me, who does not want to go into retail or wholesale template sales. 



sjidohair said:


> Bobbie lee, the reason i posted about Kelly getting her cutter going yet, is I have tried to help her in the past get it going, and seeing she had a interest in the rhinestones,


Lol, as you know, I've had an interest in rhinestones since we all started talking about them. I've had two obstacles: 1. Patience to hand set 2. The learning curve of Coreldraw.

After my diagnosis in January, tedious hand setting isn't too good for my hands, and taking on Coreldraw just isn't/wasn't a priority. But my love of and desire to work with rhinestones has never diminished.

I just simply want to make a reusable template and brush the stones in -- and I want software that I can use easily as a newbie to graphics. 

_I have the rhinestones I ordered still sitting here in their bags, unused. I've thought about ordering a template, but you know how much they cost. And which *one* would I order, because I couldn't keep ordering them for onsie/twosie shirts, too much $$ -- and how many of the "same" shirt would I want, so I'd have to choose carefully. So there hasn't been an easy, obvious solution to me, yet._



sjidohair said:


> if she had not,, that Island girl, had one up in the classifieds, to get her going on Rhinestones,. that would be even less expensive than the knk system. Sandy Jo


Yes, well, I saw that classified, but it was after I saw the 15" KNKMaxx machine  ($1060). http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t81507-6.html#post541342 . So while I didn't view the ad as cheaper per se, I did look at the specs on those two machines. 

Spec-wise, the 15" machines (KNK and Falcon) look even closer than the 24" KNK and Eagles).  I have no idea how close the 15" machines are comparatively speaking to the 24" machines. I *am* hoping that once these 24" machines are understood, that maybe the same can be done for the 15" machines. ~fingers crossed~

Thanks again, everyone. Good info coming out. I, for one, appreciate knowing what is what. =)


Adding for Terry:



> You did get the Graphtec cutter didn't you?


Yes, I did, Terry, but I got an older one. A few members here have this model, and helped me buy it used. I had to be sure I could learn this stuff and especially the Coreldraw before I invested.  Hey, thanks for the link! I am going to go look up the force on my cutter.


----------



## plan b

sportkids said:


> Great info Sandy! I like your training classes and support. That is why I would buy from you! I am confused, a bit though. If you buy the "souped up" Eagle or Falcon, is it the same software as the Maxx? Do you offer the on-line training classes and support w/the Eagle and Falcon?


 
Its not the same software as the Maxx


----------



## DTFuqua

I think SunnyDayz and Kelly are asking the right questions. By now, we have figured out that for cutting sandblast mask for rhinestone templates that almost all the major brands will work. What is really needed is software that includes everything up to the kitchen sink, And someone to follow us/me around and help out till I get it figured out. Others have said and I have proven that you can do a lot with just Corel Draw and others use Illistrator. There are two people that put up tutorials using Corel Draw for Rhinestone work( Thank you Louis and Lnform sorry for any misspelling) but in reality, there should be either and affordable software soultion that does what we want it to do with the rhinestones or a plug-in modual for Corel Draw. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE LAZY ! Its not realy being lazy but with all the other things we have to stay on top of, a good program with drivers for most common cutters or at least so plug-in moduals would be a great help and with all the stuff that is already out there, it should be acvailable and affordable.


----------



## sunnydayz

> Yes, I have customers who use their KNK's to make things to sell at fairs or on E-Bay.


This is great info, as we do have quite a few members who do this with garments. So if they were to want to make just a few templates for rhinestones at a time, not going into the business of making thousands of templates to sell, then it sounds like the KNK would work great for that at a minimum.



> Our KNK's first came out in November 2006 and I have original customers who are still cutting daily. Note that our original KNK's were 500g cutters and then the new Maxx, with 950g was introduced last December. There is no indication that these machines "fall apart" with time. This is not your Mama's Cricut!


I think this is exactly one of the points I was trying to understand, that it is not a cheap flimsy piece of equipment, and that with the new upgraded machine, it sounds like it is even better, I love the "This is not your Mama's Cricut!" that was also a point I was making, because I happen to know quite a few hobbiest that are more serious then many business people I know haha. I would not think someone would buy a machine for over $1000 if it were not a good investment.



> Speaking of Cricut, that reminds me... our software will import PDF's.... if the PDF was created from a vector image, then no tracing is required. There are loads of free PDF catalogs on the Internet and many of these ARE vectors, thus the resource of free files is incredible. Now, in most cases, copyright would prevent someone from using the images to create designs to sell, but for the hobbyist, making things for themselves or to give away as gifts, these PDF's have provided us a great resource of free cutting files. Note that the software will also import .eps, .dxf, .ai, .wmf and other vector formats... as well as the standard raster formats to auto-trace or manually trace. But the PDF's have really been an added treasure chest and my customers are always finding new ones to share.


This is great info as well. It really does make it more versatile to work with pretty most file types then. That is fantastic info for people working in other vector programs, that they can simply import their files here as .eps and then use the simulated rhinestone fills that I have seen are possible in the Knk softwarer, well not only possible but really quite easy to achieve. 

Thanks so much for taking the time answering my questions.


----------



## SandyMcC

Girlzndollz said:


> Lol.  O
> 
> Sandy, I did buy Coreldraw to use with my cutter. I still have to learn how to work in this program. I am a newb in this area, so I just want to confirm, pls, will the KNK cut things I make in Corel?
> 
> Kelly


Yes. In fact, I believe you can simply copy/paste images from Corel directly into KNK Studio and ACS Studio. But KNK Studio and ACS Studio also have the import filters to open Corel files.

Sandy McC


----------



## SandyMcC

sportkids said:


> Great info Sandy! I like your training classes and support. That is why I would buy from you! I am confused, a bit though. If you buy the "souped up" Eagle or Falcon, is it the same software as the Maxx? Do you offer the on-line training classes and support w/the Eagle and Falcon?


Yes, I do. I have ACS Studio, as well as KNK Studio and I can teach either. Although, when I teach, I normally connect by VNC so that I can see YOUR computer and show you things.

Sandy


----------



## sunnydayz

SandyMcC said:


> Yes, I do. I have ACS Studio, as well as KNK Studio and I can teach either. Although, when I teach, I normally connect by VNC so that I can see YOUR computer and show you things.
> 
> Sandy


I love VNC, its awesome  I used it when I was first interested in Smart Designer and it really is awesome to have things shown to you directly on the program itself. That was how I came to make my decision to buy my Smart designer from DAS, was through seeing what it could do right up close


----------



## sportkids

SandyMcC said:


> Yes. In fact, I believe you can simply copy/paste images from Corel directly into KNK Studio and ACS Studio. But KNK Studio and ACS Studio also have the import filters to open Corel files.
> 
> Sandy McC


Number one selling feature for me! Customer service and support!


----------



## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> I love VNC, its awesome  I used it when I was first interested in Smart Designer and it really is awesome to have things shown to you directly on the program itself. That was how I came to make my decision to buy my Smart designer from DAS, was through seeing what it could do right up close


Yes, I completely agree! They say a picture is worth a 1000 words and that's why I use it for both tech support and teaching. Videos are the same way. Since almost every person I meet tells me they are a visual learner, the software videos have been even better than phone classes because the users can pause them and then repeat what they see me do in the software. That's the way to really learn.


----------



## sunnydayz

> Hello Bobbielee
> We are Graphtec Dealers so I can speak fairly intelligently to compare.
> I spoke in a previous post about having flat beds. When a Rigid or Semi rigid material is cut and the material is cantilevered over the round platen ,the material has a tendency to lift the blade holder and lessen the amount of blade inserted into the material when it returns to the center it will now cut all the way through. This spells inconsistency of cut. Graphtec makes a great machine even though it is now made in China.
> We tested and found that our Flat Bed really can help in the consistency field. They are removable if one desires to.


Now as I understand and can see by the sites that sell both the Eagle and the KNK, they both do have this flatbed correct? So that is the same right? on both machines? 


> KNK
> Our KNK machine was built with high end Crafters in mind. There are a few differences wich I will pont out.
> Eagle has a 4 meg buffer KNK 1 meg


This would just mean that the transfer rate of your graphic would take a little longer to spool on the KNK then the Eagle correct? I dont see that as a issue since it would not really effect the machines ability itself for cutting. That to me is more of a communication thing and not how the machine itself cuts. I guess you could say it has more to do with the brains then the brawn 




> The Grit rollers on the Eagle are wider for the first segment, about 3.5" for the first one.The KNK Maxx Rollers are all 1"


I would think with it having 5 grit rollers it would hold the material fine, is it just the first one, the 3.5" one that is different? What are the widths of the other four?




> The Eagle now comes with a $750 starter kit....this is a large part of the cost difference.


I see on the Knk Maxx site that the KNK comes with this :
Each KNKMAXX comes with the following: Power cable,USB cable,Serial cable. 
Bolt on Tables 
Laser Alignment 
2 Blades (1 Standard material blade, 1 Thick material blade) 
1 Blade Holder 
1 pen 
1 Carrier Sheet 
1 Can of Easy Tack spray adhesive. 
KNK Studio Software. 
Font and Clipart CD (1100 fonts, 3900pcs of clipart) 
Designer CD featuring over 80 exclusive ready to cut files from TSI

Is there other things that come with the Eagle? if so that would be great if you could post a comparable list, as I was not able to find it on the eagle or acs site. Thanks  I think it would be helpful for the members to be able to compare apples to apples.



> Software.... 10 Free Rhinestone fonts come withe the Eagle Software. The Eagle Software has many more fill types for more design capability. The Eagle Software will have upgrades available for Rhinestones and the KNK Maxx Software will not


After I watched the videos of the KNK software, I would not think this is a major difference for me, as I am able to create simulated fills, and since the software does work for vista 64 bit systems, I am thinking the way it is would be fine for most without upgrades. Oh here is another question then. Since most of the sites sell the software for the KNK stand alone, would they not be able to buy new versions as it comes out? Say a new version comes out 3 years down the road, wouldnt they just be able to buy a new version?



> Force Eagle up to 1500 grams Maxx up to 950 grams.
> We have seen many plotters over the years with head coils burn't up from over using a machine that was not designed to handle constant heavy abuse. That is one of the reasons you see our Force so high.


This is probably the one point that really got me looking at this machine, is even on the KNK the force is so much higher then most of the other cutters out there. In fact I could not find another cutter that had that force, or the speed it has as well on the KNK. Your company seems to be the only company that has machines with this force and speed. 

I guess that was my whole point of asking what makes this rated a hobby machine compared to graphtecs commercial machine which has specs that are much lower rated. I still have not figured that out, as this post was more about the comparisons of the Eagle and the Maxx (which is fine because it is all good helpful information ), but I would still like to know why is this machine rated a hobby machine compared to say Graphtec, which has much lower spec ratings then your KNK machine?



> We will be offereing this package of ACS Design Studio and a Maxx cutter in the very near future for a lesser than Eagle or Falcon pricing respective to the machine size.


Now I am confused again. I have heard over and over how the KNK/Maxx can not do an adequate job with rhinestone templates, but now their will be a package put together to do exactly that? So then the only difference in this package would be the software? With the same KNK machine?



> Sorry this was so long winded ...I'm sure there will be many more questions.
> We reserve the right to change specifications .
> Best Regards
> Gary


Thats ok  I am being long winded as well haha. This really is all very interesting to me to be able to have other options available not only for myself but for others as well  I can only imagine how much all of this direct information will help not only the members we have now but many future members to come  So thanks again for taking the time out of your day in answering all of our questions, it really is appreciated.


----------



## Girlzndollz

accu4321 said:


> We have our own Rhinestone stencil material, we had it made Black and it has a surface that is slicker ...


Can someone please tell me:

1. How many "MIL" this rhinestone stencil material is? (30 mil, 42 mil? Not mm, but "mil".)

2. Does the material have an adhesive back?

Thank you.


----------



## SandyMcC

I'll respond to the ones that I know the answer for sure....



sunnydayz said:


> Now as I understand and can see by the sites that sell both the Eagle and the KNK, they both do have this flatbed correct? So that is the same right? on both machines?


Yes, all of our KNK's, Eagle and Falcon now come with attachable flatbed tables. 



sunnydayz said:


> This would just mean that the transfer rate of your graphic would take a little longer to spool on the KNK then the Eagle correct? I dont see that as a issue since it would not really effect the machines ability itself for cutting. That to me is more of a communication thing and not how the machine itself cuts. I guess you could say it has more to do with the brains then the brawn


No, it's not about the transfer rate; it's about how much memory is in the cutter itself. We have found that if a design has a LOT of detail, then the design may not start cutting on the Maxx. Users will then have to select the design in two parts to cut or whatever. With 4 mb on the Eagle and Falcon, this should never be an issue. Gary posted today that the Maxx has 1 mb, but I was pretty sure it's actually 2 mb. That may have been a typo. I'll confirm tomorrow.



sunnydayz said:


> After I watched the videos of the KNK software, I would not think this is a major difference for me, as I am able to create simulated fills, and since the software does work for vista 64 bit systems, I am thinking the way it is would be fine for most without upgrades. Oh here is another question then. Since most of the sites sell the software for the KNK stand alone, would they not be able to buy new versions as it comes out? Say a new version comes out 3 years down the road, wouldnt they just be able to buy a new version?


Yes. But not all of the enhancements that get made to ACS Studio will necessarily be put into a new version of KNK Studio.... just as there are no plans to add the rhinestone fill feature already available in ACS Studio (with 6 fill options) to KNKStudio.

But as you saw from my videos, I'm pretty good at coming up with clever ways to do what I need in KNK Studio... with the help from customer questions that "get me thinkin' outside the box!"  I'll never forget when I had a customer ask me how to design a mud puddle! I had to ponder that one for a few weeks before I came with the perfect quick easy way to do it. Since I'm an engineer, my artistic talents are sorely lacking... It's imperative that I come up with software solutions that do not involve being able to freehand draw more than a straight line! 




sunnydayz said:


> This is probably the one point that really got me looking at this machine, is even on the KNK the force is so much higher then most of the other cutters out there. In fact I could not find another cutter that had that force, or the speed it has as well on the KNK. Your company seems to be the only company that has machines with this force and speed.


I can't speak to the entire market, but in the paper crafting world, it's the only cutter with this much power. It's also brought in a lot of interest from those who build models from styrene, balsa, chipboard, etc.... and from the quilting hobby world.



sunnydayz said:


> So thanks again for taking the time out of your day in answering all of our questions, it really is appreciated.


You're welcome. Today and tomorrow, I'm actually working on a 25' frog/pond scene to be cut from poster board and paper for my friend's new kindergarten classroom! My Maxx is getting a work-out! 

Hopefully Gary will have time tomorrow to address the rest of your questions... or maybe Roger has the answers to the rest.


----------



## SandyMcC

Girlzndollz said:


> Can someone please tell me:
> 
> 1. How many "MIL" this rhinestone stencil material is? (30 mil, 42 mil? Not mm, but "mil".)
> 
> 2. Does the material have an adhesive back?
> 
> Thank you.


The thickness appears to be about 1/2 - 2/3 mm. So, if I did my math correct... that makes it ~20 - 25 mil. 

It has a VERY sticky backing... thus you can stick it to a sheet of chipboard, styrene, cardstock, whatever you like.


----------



## sunnydayz

> No, it's not about the transfer rate; it's about how much memory is in the cutter itself. We have found that if a design has a LOT of detail, then the design may not start cutting on the Maxx. Users will then have to select the design in two parts to cut or whatever. With 4 mb on the Eagle and Falcon, this should never be an issue. Gary posted today that the Maxx has 1 mb, but I was pretty sure it's actually 2 mb. That may have been a typo. I'll confirm tomorrow.


Yes I believe you are right on this Sandy, I believe I also seen the 2mb as well. I would think with cutting rhinestone templates, the detail would not be such a large amount that it would effect it. Have you yourself run into any issues of a rhinestone template file being to big to cut?



> But as you saw from my videos, I'm pretty good at coming up with clever ways to do what I need in KNK Studio... with the help from customer questions that "get me thinkin' outside the box!"  I'll never forget when I had a customer ask me how to design a mud puddle! I had to ponder that one for a few weeks before I came with the perfect quick easy way to do it. Since I'm an engineer, my artistic talents are sorely lacking... It's imperative that I come up with software solutions that do not involve being able to freehand draw more than a straight line!


 You have done an excellent job of making tutorials and really being there for help. That is exactly what I look for when looking to purchase new equipment, is people like you  Gary is very lucky to have you helping thats for sure.

Thanks so much for taking your time with helping us all with our questions, it really has been a great education  Sounds like a fun project you are working on, Wow 25 feet haha that is huge, I bet they will have the coolest classroom around.


----------



## Rodney

SandyMcC said:


> No, it's not about the transfer rate; it's about how much memory is in the cutter itself. We have found that if a design has a LOT of detail, then the design may not start cutting on the Maxx. Users will then have to select the design in two parts to cut or whatever. With 4 mb on the Eagle and Falcon, this should never be an issue. Gary posted today that the Maxx has 1 mb, but I was pretty sure it's actually 2 mb. That may have been a typo. I'll confirm tomorrow.


Interesting. So the memory *inside* the machine helps it to be able to do the more complex designs. I could see why that would be a feature of a higher end machine (the ability to do a wider range of designs with ease).

I thought I read earlier in the thread that one of the machines has 4MB of memory? Is that correct?

Thanks again for sharing this info


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## sjidohair

Rodney, good to have you here,, 
The eagle has the 4mb of memory.
Sandy jo


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## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> Yes I believe you are right on this Sandy, I believe I also seen the 2mb as well. I would think with cutting rhinestone templates, the detail would not be such a large amount that it would effect it. Have you yourself run into any issues of a rhinestone template file being to big to cut?


No, but then I haven't cut that many rhinestone files! I just got into this rhinestone arena in JUNE! Prior to that, I didn't have any problems BUT I tend to cut rather simple things. I did have a customer who sent me this incredible lattice design that must have had several hundred tiny squares and she couldn't get it to cut on her KNK... and neither could I. It was a perfect example of a file that needed to be cut in separate parts. Thus, if a rhinestone design had hundreds of circles, then it could be an issue. 

I already know the next question... could I possibly do some testing to see how many circles can be cut at once? Sure! But it may also be dependent on how they are arranged and what sizes they are. But hey... it would give us all a feeling for what the limits might be, yes?



sunnydayz said:


> You have done an excellent job of making tutorials and really being there for help.
> That is exactly what I look for when looking to purchase new equipment, is people like you


Thank you!



sunnydayz said:


> Gary is very lucky to have you helping thats for sure.


Well, it's been a great 3 years for all of us. I've had offers from other cutter companies... I even had an offer from a company right here in Arizona! But my heart has never been into these alternative companies. Accugraphic is like family to me. I don't EVER see myself working with anyone else... even if they ARE SIX states away! 



sunnydayz said:


> Thanks so much for taking your time with helping us all with our questions, it really has been a great education  Sounds like a fun project you are working on, Wow 25 feet haha that is huge, I bet they will have the coolest classroom around.


I will take photos and place on my blog once it's done. Thank you all for making me feel so welcomed here!


----------



## sunnydayz

> I already know the next question... could I possibly do some testing to see how many circles can be cut at once? Sure! But it may also be dependent on how they are arranged and what sizes they are. But hey... it would give us all a feeling for what the limits might be, yes?


Ok I will just say it haha, you are awesome and that is a great idea  Thanks for doing this test, it will be a great benefit for us here. Could you maybe base it on the 4 mm stones, as I know that is a very popular size. It would be even super cool if you could post a pic of how it looks


----------



## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> Ok I will just say it haha, you are awesome and that is a great idea  Thanks for doing this test, it will be a great benefit for us here. Could you maybe base it on the 4 mm stones, as I know that is a very popular size. It would be even super cool if you could post a pic of how it looks


You bet! But I've got to get the Kindergarten room decorated first! BIG priority!


----------



## Girlzndollz

> The thickness appears to be about 1/2 - 2/3 mm. So, if I did my math correct... that makes it ~20 - 25 mil.
> 
> It has a VERY sticky backing... thus you can stick it to a sheet of chipboard, styrene, cardstock, whatever you like.


Thanks, SandyM.

Okay, I still have some back reading to catch up on, focusing on my own questions first here  - but can someone out there tell me why this machine called the Magnum Force Cutter is being sold to professionals in the sandblasting industry, for industrial use and it has:

* 500g of force
* Cuts material of 42 MIL


http://www.scmsysteminc.com/magnum_force.php


Why is the KNKMaxx seen as a hobby machine next to that? This is what I don't understand? The Maxx 24" seems fine for the job. 

Even if it's not "tested" for industrial rhinestone template making (but at 950g, it does seem much better than the Magnum Force already) - it seems like it should be totally fine for the garment decorator who wants to make *A* template to use 1000 times (not a machine to make 1000 templates with.)

Okay, please explain, if someone can help. Thanks a ton. 

Signed,
Confused in USA


----------



## plan b

Rodney said:


> Interesting. So the memory *inside* the machine helps it to be able to do the more complex designs. I could see why that would be a feature of a higher end machine (the ability to do a wider range of designs with ease).
> 
> I thought I read earlier in the thread that one of the machines has 4MB of memory? Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks again for sharing this info


 
Here is a break down as far as the information that I have on higher end cutter memory.

Eagle-- 4 MB

Roland GX24-- 800 Kb

Graphtec 5000-60-- 2 Mb


----------



## sunnydayz

plan b said:


> Here is a break down as far as the information that I have on higher end cutter memory.
> 
> Eagle-- 4 MB
> 
> Roland GX24-- 800 Kb
> 
> Graphtec 5000-60-- 2 Mb


Ok so if the graphtec is 2mb as well as the KNK, then I can vouch for the fact that it is sufficient  Because I ran my graphtec CE5000-60 for the last year and never ever had a problem with any file being able to be buffered to it. Thanks for that info Roger  That is exactly what I wanted to know on that question. So basically the buffer is again no different or higher then other commercial machines out there


----------



## plan b

sunnydayz said:


> Ok so if the graphtec is 2mb as well as the KNK, then I can vouch for the fact that it is sufficient  Because I ran my graphtec CE5000-60 for the last year and never ever had a problem with any file being able to be buffered to it. Thanks for that info Roger  That is exactly what I wanted to know on that question. So basically the buffer is again no different or higher then other commercial machines out there


Well if you look at the GX 24 it only has 800 KB which is a very popular machine well below any cutter we are discussing here, in my opinion the graphtec is a better built machine than the GX 24 Roland, alot of these things are a little confusing and normally wouldn't make much difference to a lay person until you start to cut precise items and only then would you notice a considerable differance.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Girlzndollz said:


> Obviously, this machine was being used for a different intended purpose originally.
> 
> What was it about the KNKMaxx machine that originally prompted the idea to test it for cutting rhinestone template material?
> 
> Thanks, Kelly =)


 
Okay, with so much to discuss, this question is going unanswered. I really do not want to know about the Eagle specs anymore, I really want to know more about the KNKMaxx. Please, if someone can answer these questions:

1. Why did someone decide to test the KNK for rhinestone templates - when it was not used for that original purpose. Was it the force that prompted the testing? What was the positive attribute(s) of the the machine that lead to the idea to test for this?

2. When the KNK passed the test, what criteria did it meet to pass the test?

3. When the KNK was deemed *viable* for coming to the market with it as a rhinestone template cutter -- (as seen in this link: Scrapbookdiecutter.com - Welcome ) -- what was the expected output capacity at the time? 

Point blank, if a prospective customer asks, "How many templates can I produce with this machine in a day, month, year?" what was the expected output capability shown in the testing stages? 

4. Who was the intended market when it was decided to come to market with the KNKMaxx as a rhinestone template machine?

5. Was there any foreseeable conflict with the Falcon and/or Eagle in that capacity when it was decided to market yet another machine in this capacity, as they are all made by the same mfg.

Thank you. Thank you very, very much.


----------



## plan b

Well first of all the KNK was never meant to be a production rhinestone machine and will always stay at the scrapbook level so the intentions were not for that application and it has limited capability for rhinestone application.

The KNK specs have been covered already

Again customers are directed to the proper machine for rhinestone production.

The intended market for the KNK is the scrapbook industry.

No conflict is seen with the Falcon or Eagle, these are production machines and according to our market studies when you are serious about building and running a rhinestone specific business that the amount of shirts and motif's warrants a production piece of equipment, what seems to be the confusion here is that you guy's see the KNK as a production unit and it clearly is not, its a high end hobby machine with limited rhinestone capabilities.


----------



## Girlzndollz

plan b said:


> Well first of all the KNK was never meant to be a production rhinestone machine and will always stay at the scrapbook level so the intentions were not for that application and it has limited capability for rhinestone application.
> 
> The KNK specs have been covered already
> 
> Again customers are directed to the proper machine for rhinestone production.
> 
> The intended market for the KNK is the scrapbook industry.
> 
> No conflict is seen with the Falcon or Eagle, these are production machines and according to our market studies when you are serious about building and running a rhinestone specific business that the amount of shirts and motif's warrants a production piece of equipment, what seems to be the confusion here is that you guy's see the KNK as a production unit and it clearly is not, its a high end hobby machine with limited rhinestone capabilities.


 
Thank you, Roger. I am looking for much more *specific answers* to my specific questions. I posed them each for a purpose, intentionally. I think the answers to these questions may have been getting missed in the mix of things and I am hoping they come out. 

Also, please don't assume to know what I am thinking. I'm not thinking the KNK is a production machine.  Much appreciated.


----------



## ashamutt

DTFuqua said:


> First thing is my Graphtec is less than a year old and has "made in japan" on it. It is a good cutter.


MINE TOO!!!

I LOVE MY GRAPHTEC CE5000-60!!!!!
....and I purchased it from Gary!
Drove 11 miles to Apopka and picked up my "baby" a little over 13 months ago!
Gary gave me a *GREAT* deal on the cutter & stand!!!!!! (thanks Gary!!!)

Welcome to the forums Gary!!!!!!



DTFuqua said:


> Now to why I am posting this time. I quit being lazy for a short time and did the work to make a simple template with the Hartco sand mask. I only have the cheap rhinestones that aren't as good and consistent as some of the better ones but I used them anyway. The only problems I had were making the art work and weeding all those tiny dots.Cutting took less than 3 minutes from clicking the cut/plot button to turning off the cutter. It took less than 2 minutes to do all the stones by sliding them around with my finger. I'm slow so someone with dexterity and with practice and/or one of those sliding brushes will likely be faster. Here are a couple of pictures of the results.


Thanks so much Terry for all of this great info!!!(you always help)
....now, I know that I can cut "rhinestone templates" using "sandblast material"!!!!!
Thanks!!!!!


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## ashamutt

WHY is the KNK considered a "hobby model"????......and the GRAPHTEC ce5000-60 considered a "commercial/business model" ????..... WHEN........ the KNK is a more(much more) powerful machine!!!(very confused)

Can someone please answer this question?????????????????(or did I miss something?)

_I am considering selling my Graphtec and purchasing the KNK 24"_ after reading this GREAT thread!!!


----------



## sjidohair

sunnydayz said:


> Ok I will just say it haha, you are awesome and that is a great idea  Thanks for doing this test, it will be a great benefit for us here. Could you maybe base it on the 4 mm stones, as I know that is a very popular size. It would be even super cool if you could post a pic of how it looks


If you are truly testing this machine for memory 2mm would be the most beneficial to try.
Sandy Jo


----------



## sunnydayz

sjidohair said:


> If you are truly testing this machine for memory 2mm would be the most beneficial to try.
> Sandy Jo


I really don't agree with this as I do not think that many people even really use 2mm stones. The most popular sizes used are 4mm and 3mm. I have 2mm stones and have yet to use them more then once. The reason is that they are so small with such a minimal amount of glue on them, that the longevity of that size is no where near as good as the 3 or 4mm stones. I would think basing it on the most popular size used would be more beneficial for the people who make templates for their items.


----------



## sjidohair

Bobbie, if you are testing the machine , you need to test it with what will stress it out the most,
this is not about what is the most popular stone, it is about finding out if this machine can handle the test it will be put to, isnt it?
Sandy jo


----------



## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> If you are truly testing this machine for memory 2mm would be the most beneficial to try. Sandy Jo


*If* it goes for a vote, I vote for at least 4mm. 

I _have_ 3mm here and these things are _tiny_. When I saw them, I was _disappointed_ in how _little _they are. 

My shirts with rhinestones have _larger_ stones than the 3mm. As soon as I saw Bobbielee suggest 4mm, I was excited the test may focus on a bigger, yet still small, sized stone, because I know, there is just no reality in me working in a 3mm stone as the main stone. 

Bobbielee has worked with the stones, so I trust her judgement, as well. JMO, at least 4mm.


----------



## sjidohair

Girlzndollz said:


> *If* it goes for a vote, I vote for at least 4mm.
> 
> I _have_ 3mm here and these things are _tiny_. When I saw them, I was _disappointed_ in how _little _they are.
> 
> My shirts with rhinestones have _larger_ stones than the 3mm. As soon as I saw Bobbielee suggest 4mm, I was excited the test may focus on a bigger, yet still small, sized stone, because I know, there is just no reality in me working in a 3mm stone as the main stone.
> 
> Bobbielee has worked with the stones, so I trust her judgement, as well. JMO, at least 4mm.


I thought we were testing a machine here for memory function. 
Sandy Jo


----------



## Girlzndollz

I guess SandyM will let us know. I thought we were making a real-life sample template with alot of holes, to see how many holes the KNK can realistically buffer. 

For a real life sample, I would think those holes would be the size stones one might realistically expect to_ use_ in a template. I would never use 2mm stones. Why would I want SandyM to test that size? 

I would much rather see how many 4mm stones (or even larger) the KNK can buffer. That's more realistic. Again, just sharing some thoughts here as an interested party.

I trust SandyM's judgement on this. I'm sure she knows what she's doing.


----------



## sunnydayz

sjidohair said:


> I thought we were testing a machine here for memory function.
> Sandy Jo


If the test is going to be for the use that it is being suggested, then it should also be realistic about what people are going to be using it for. I just don't see people using the 2mm stones I guess. It could just be me though. But I do not use that size stone (Even though I have a ton of them) and I don't think there are really many if any others that do. Realistic testing is what needs to be done. I found that size to be a waste and they are still sitting there after using them one time.


----------



## sjidohair

Girlzndollz said:


> .
> For a real life sample, I would think those holes would be the size stones one would use in a real life situation, you know? Using the size stones one might realistically expect to_ use_ in a template. I would never use 2mm stones. Why would I want SandyM to test that size?
> 
> I would much rather see how many 4mm stones (or even larger) the KNK can buffer. That's more realistic.


Testing for Memory is different than Testing a cut to see the hole.
You may not want to see it! But others may, This test is for everyone right? a 2mm hole will be the hardest on the machine to cut,, and stress it the most under cutting conditions for memory research.
It would not be a fair test if doing 4mm or 5mm holes.
Sandy Jo


----------



## sjidohair

sunnydayz said:


> If the test is going to be for the use that it is being suggested, then it should also be realistic about what people are going to be using it for. I just don't see people using the 2mm stones I guess. It could just be me though. But I do not use that size stone (Even though I have a ton of them) and I don't think there are really many if any others that do. Realistic testing is what needs to be done. I found that size to be a waste and they are still sitting there after using them one time.


As a Rhinestone Template Designer, I can Tell you 2mm and smaller are used as often as 3mm and 4mm.
If you want a fair test it will be 2mm or smaller.
If you dont want a fair test,, pick what ever you want. it is up to you guys to be fair, in the test.. 
Sandy Jo


----------



## SandyMcC

Why don't I just cut the same pattern at 2mm, then 3mm, then 4mm... then everyone is happy, right?


----------



## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> Testing for Memory is different than Testing a cut to see the hole.
> You may not want to see it! But others may, This test is for everyone right? a 2mm hole will be the hardest on the machine to cut,, and stress it the most under cutting conditions for memory research.
> It would not be a fair test if doing 4mm or 5mm holes.
> Sandy Jo


I understand that others may want to see a stress test of 2mm like you do -- but I personally would love to see what kind of a template this machine can make for me. How many holes can be on a template ... and I wouldn't use 2mm stones.

Maybe you can ask for a stress test, unless I am mistaken, and this is supposed to be a test to stress the machine, and is not in fact a test to find out how many holes the machine can realistically buffer. 

If not, then I would still like to see how many 4mm holes will go on a template. I do not care about a 2mm stress test because that won't ever come up for me. Sorry.


----------



## sportkids

too funny about the kindergarten room! I just came in from cutting all of the text for my husbands bulletin boards for his 6th grade classroom. I can't believe back in the day our daughters would use stencils and cut out every letter by hand. We've come along way...


----------



## Girlzndollz

Sounds good, SandyM, thank you. 

SandyJo, to use Roger's analogy, why would I want to see a Porsche drive at 150mph, when my speed limit is 65?


----------



## sunnydayz

Thanks SandyM for offering to do the testing  I had posted a response but its really not needed since you are willing to do the tests of the different sizes  That will be great.


----------



## Girlzndollz

sunnydayz said:


> Thanks SandyM for offering to do the testing  I had posted a response but its really not needed since you are willing to do the tests of the different sizes  That will be great.


 
Agreed, and thanks again, SandyM. Appreciate it, as there is alot of interest in what the machine can do, from many perspectives.


----------



## sunnydayz

sjidohair said:


> Bobbie, if you are testing the machine , you need to test it with what will stress it out the most,
> this is not about what is the most popular stone, it is about finding out if this machine can handle the test it will be put to, isnt it?
> Sandy jo


Sandy Jo,

It seems you have alot more invested here then merely being an end user. Can you give me a little more info on how involved you are in this whole process of testing machines? I am simply looking to see a realistic use of the machine as most members will be looking for, but you seem to be on a whole other agenda here.


----------



## sjidohair

sunnydayz said:


> Sandy Jo,
> 
> It seems you have alot more invested here then merely being an end user. Can you give me a little more info on how involved you are in this whole process of testing machines? I am simply looking to see a realistic use of the machine as most members will be looking for, but you seem to be on a whole other agenda here.


I just want to make sure the right poeple get the right machine, in their hands,, to use for many years,, that is my agenda,, 
Sandy Jo


----------



## sunnydayz

I guess it just seems like you were much more involved in testing from the way you are talking, which I had thought you just bought a machine, I guess that is where my confusion is


----------



## sjidohair

Bobbie, 
I have had 3 cutters,, 
1 us cutter, I burned out,, cutting templates, that is my concern here,.
If you and kelly are suggesting to poeple that this machine will work for templates, Please make sure and have all the details,
1 us cutter to replace the one i burned out,, to cut only vinyl now, and speciality vinyl
and the eagle I recieved 1 or 2 weeks after the florida show,, I do not have a new cutter,, 
My next purchase will be a cam machine.
Sandy Jo


----------



## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> I just want to make sure the right poeple get the right machine, in their hands,, to use for many years,, that is my agenda,, Sandy Jo


Well, I am one of those people, and I do appreciate your concern.  
Believe me, I do. 

But - the size stone you requested isn't going to help "me" see if this is the right machine "for me". 

It _might_ help show if the KNK has any limitation in that arena (2mm and less), where as the Eagle might not, as has been boasted here many times, but that may be all it could show me, and I'm not interested in that. 

You see, if the KNK works for me, and I can cut nice, reuseable templates with it, in the 3mm (yuk) or bigger size stones (yea!), than I will be golden. 

Hey, if a time ever comes that I have a need for a template that is 2mm or smaller, I think I know where I can buy a speciality one like that, if I ever needed it.  

It's all good. If interested parties want to see a test template in the size stone they'd likely be using, what is wrong with that?  Moot point, SandyM is graciously testing a range of sizes. Now that is service. Thank you, SandyM.


----------



## sportkids

ashamutt said:


> WHY is the KNK considered a "hobby model"????......and the GRAPHTEC ce5000-60 considered a "commercial/business model" ????..... WHEN........ the KNK is a more(much more) powerful machine!!!(very confused)
> 
> Can someone please answer this question?????????????????(or did I miss something?)
> 
> _I am considering selling my Graphtec and purchasing the KNK 24"_ after reading this GREAT thread!!!


Maybe someone from Graphtec is a member and will respond. Perhaps some of the controversy may be due to having the word scrapbooking and hobby associated with the machines? How many different templates does a full time rhinestone operation cut in 1 day? Maybe the DAS people can answer this one?


----------



## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> If you and kelly are suggesting to poeple that this machine will work for templates, Please make sure and have all the details,


Sandy Jo, are you suggesting the KNKMaxx *won't* work for templates?


----------



## sunnydayz

sjidohair said:


> Bobbie,
> I have had 3 cutters,,
> 1 us cutter, I burned out,, cutting templates, that is my concern here,.
> If you and kelly are suggesting to poeple that this machine will work for templates, Please make sure and have all the details,
> 1 us cutter to replace the one i burned out,, to cut only vinyl now, and speciality vinyl
> and the eagle I recieved 1 or 2 weeks after the florida show,, I do not have a new cutter,,
> My next purchase will be a cam machine.
> Sandy Jo


I myself have used the graphtec for the last year, and have never gotten into testing, so I guess that is where my confusion was. 

As far as us cutter, well that is hardly a comparison right? We all know around here that us cutter is a bargain cutter. Kind of like a sunie is a bargain press, which we would never expect a sunie to be able to handle what the hotronix could. I think it should be a comparison of apples to apples here. I mean do you think that the maxx is in the same catagory of quality as the us cutter you burned out?


----------



## sjidohair

Kelly that is NOT what i am suggesting, Any cutter can cut a template if it has enough force,, 
What you need is far more than force, to cut a nice template.. and to maintain a healthy machine.. 
but on a positive note.. 
The software is easy to work with, and you will love it,, 
did you know I have seen the software sold seperate,,$139.00 for the knk system,, 
Now I am not sure,, which machines it all works with,, or not... 
I believe the knk machine to be a great machine as well as the falcon and the yellow one,, 
Sandy Jo


----------



## sjidohair

sunnydayz said:


> I myself have used the graphtec for the last year, and have never gotten into testing, so I guess that is where my confusion was.
> 
> As far as us cutter, well that is hardly a comparison right? We all know around here that us cutter is a bargain cutter. Kind of like a sunie is a bargain press, which we would never expect a sunie to be able to handle what the hotronix could. I think it should be a comparison of apples to apples here. I mean do you think that the maxx is in the same catagory of quality as the us cutter you burned out?


Hey now I do have a Sunie, so be careful here, that machine has , done well for me,, lol
Girls, I am off to bed,, 
Sandy Jo


----------



## Girlzndollz

sjidohair said:


> Kelly that is NOT what i am suggesting,


Sandy Jo, that is good. I am really glad you clarified that because from this:



sjidohair said:


> 1 us cutter, I burned out,, cutting templates, that is my concern here,.
> *If you and kelly are suggesting to poeple that this machine will work for templates*, Please make sure and have all the details,


Whew, you really had me wondering. I really didn't know what else you could mean by that, especially bringing up your cutter burning out when trying it for template material.

I am sure that ACS would not put a machine on the market and suggest people cut rhinestone templates with it, if it could not cut those templates. 



sjidohair said:


> The software is easy to work with, and you will love it,, did you know I have seen the software sold seperate,,$139.00 for the knk system,, Now I am not sure,, which machines it all works with,, or not...


I know, I know. I've seen a few tutorials. Looks nice and easy! I think SandyM covered earlier that the software no longer has the drivers to work with other machines. Not since version 7. You'll have to look back to see for sure, tho. 



sjidohair said:


> ... I believe the knk machine to be a great machine ... Sandy Jo


I know! Me, too! I wish you had shared the info about it last year when you found it, but it didn't have the 950g force yet, at that time it was still a 500g force. Either way, I think it may have been capable of cutting templates.. not sure if the software was geared toward that yet.


----------



## sportkids

sjidohair said:


> Bobbie,
> I have had 3 cutters,,
> 1 us cutter, I burned out,, cutting templates, that is my concern here,.
> If you and kelly are suggesting to poeple that this machine will work for templates, Please make sure and have all the details,
> 1 us cutter to replace the one i burned out,, to cut only vinyl now, and speciality vinyl
> and the eagle I recieved 1 or 2 weeks after the florida show,, I do not have a new cutter,,
> My next purchase will be a cam machine.
> Sandy Jo


Still and will source my transfers out to the big robotic machine people. Has worked the best for me, and by far so much cheaper if you are doing volume; not to mention LESS AGGERVATION, plus they are PRECISE! Yes, I want one of these new machines to on do onzies, threezies and maybe tens. The jury is still out!


----------



## bfgraphics

SandyMcC said:


> Why don't I just cut the same pattern at 2mm, then 3mm, then 4mm... then everyone is happy, right?



Sandy,

Awesome idea on the testing and much appreciated.

I agree with the school of thought that says "why test 2mm if I would never use them", but it would make a fair test to include them as a comparison".

Thanks, Bob


----------



## bfgraphics

accu4321 said:


> Hello Bobbielee
> We are Graphtec Dealers so I can speak fairly intelligently to compare...............................
> 
> 
> Sorry this was so long winded ...I'm sure there will be many more questions.
> We reserve the right to change specifications .
> Best Regards
> Gary


Gary, 

Thanks for all the the excellent information. "Long winded" is not a problem, as the "wind" was full of very helpful info.

There seems to be a lot of emphasis put on the fact that the knk is not a "production" machine, but that is subjective and will mean different things to different people. There is a very diverse group here, as we all make and peddle different products to try to keep food on the table in this very tumultuous economy.
To me, production means it should not be used for continuous use at average or high speeds, as if to be used to to make templates for sale. A larger majority of folks would probably use the machines for templates for their own use, selling either the rhinestone motifs or the garments.
I believe it was mentioned that a "coil" burning out might be a hazard of pushing the machine near it's limits.
So if used in a higher than average hobby mode, the danger is a coil can overheat and burn out due to not having enough "cool down" time between templates is my assumption. 

Are replacement coils stocked at your facility and what do they cost? I guess I have the same question about the stepper motors, power supply and main board. We know what these items cost for another brand, just as an example. I ask this question as it can be a deciding factor if the fear of a burned out coil or motor can be relieved with a fairly inexpensive user repair.

I guess if someone was considering one of these machines and was concerned about a failure, maybe keeping an "emergency kit" of the weakest link spare parts on hand might not be a bad idea. I am assuming the coil mentioned would be the coil that lowers / holds the cutting head downward in the cutting position? 

Going out on a limb here, but would the heavier duty coil from the Eagle or falcon work on the knk, or would the additional milli-amp current draw of the eagle coil be too much for the knk main board? I realize there could be other constraints, such as physical size/shape or a different coil voltage, but it is a thought. Not trying to redesign your machines, just looking for a solution to the weakest link (s). 

All the other differences were recognized and the comparison is appreciated.

Thanks again for your participation and candid answers to some very important and timely question.

Bob


----------



## bfgraphics

sjidohair said:


> Bobbie,
> I have had 3 cutters,,
> 1 us cutter, I burned out,............................
> Sandy Jo


Sandy,

When you say you "burned out" a US machine,
I am assuming it was one of the lower level machines that they sell, as they also sell Graphtecs and
other higher end machines as well as some very nice mid level machines.
Do you know just what burned up? Wasn't it replaceable? I noticed they do list costs of replacement motors, power supplies etc, even the "carriage" that contains the coil is only $35.
I know others who have easily and successfully replaced these parts on not only US, but other brands, and been back in business fairly easily.
I just was curious what failure that you had that would not be worth fixing? I realize at some point a $270 machine is easier to replace than pour a lot of money into, but if it was a $400 cutter, replacing a $50 motor or $35 carriage might be worth the effort as having a "spare" machine is not a bad thing either if you have the room for it.

I know you are extremely prolific/ productive and have tons of excellent templates on your web page. 
I can understand YOU going to a heavier duty, better quality cutter for your busines.
I think you probably classify as a "production" user.
Just wondering what the kiss of death was to the "burned out" machine. Thanks, Bob


----------



## dan-ann

A few pages back someone touched on one of the reasons I am hesitant to put out another $3000-4000 on a new machine. The market is hot now but who know how long it will last. 

It has been stressed being able to use the bigger machines for things other then rhinestones. 

Just how are you going to use these machines in a profitable way if the market falls off for rhinestones?

I need to justify to my banker(husband) that I will continue using a $4000 machine


----------



## plan b

Girlzndollz said:


> I also am looking for much more *specific answers* to my specific questions. I posed them each for a purpose, intentionally. They speak to my direct questions. Thanks, anyway.
> 
> Also, please don't assume to know what I am thinking. Much appreciated.



You guy's are fueling this thread and its obvious whats going on.

Its to the point now that readers are getting confused by the same questions asked and answered by just re-constructing the same questions.


----------



## SandyMcC

dan-ann said:


> Just how are you going to use these machines in a profitable way if the market falls off for rhinestones?
> 
> I need to justify to my banker(husband) that I will continue using a $4000 machine


I have a list I prepared for the PBS Creative Living segments I taped back in March... for their newsletter/magazine, called "101 Uses for a Klic-N-Kut." Naturally these would apply to the more expensive cutters as well. Anyhow, it's in PDF format and I'm attaching it. I've removed the photo and promotional wording from the beginning, so I hope this conforms to the rules of the board here.


----------



## bfgraphics

dan-ann said:


> A few pages back someone touched on one of the reasons I am hesitant to put out another $3000-4000 on a new machine. The market is hot now but who know how long it will last.
> 
> It has been stressed being able to use the bigger machines for things other then rhinestones.
> 
> Just how are you going to use these machines in a profitable way if the market falls off for rhinestones?
> 
> I need to justify to my banker(husband) that I will continue using a $4000 machine


I was the one who mentioned other uses for the machine if the rhinestone market fizzles. I don't think it will for quite a while, but we know how fads come and go in cycles, especially in fashion. You are here on the T-Shirt forum for a reason other than rhinestones. If you are in any way involved is T-shirts or garment embellishment, there will be a use for SOME machine, IMHO.

We are primarily embroiderers, but have a full complement of heat presses for application of heat applied transfers and lettering. My initial reason for a cutter was to cut our own twill and vinyl letters and numbers, but ALSO to "contour cut" around heat applied inkjet transfer paper so that the transfer did not have that white border. Hand cutting is not only inaccurate, but tedious.
I also wanted to cut twill and other material for applique purposes.

When I started to research machines, other uses caught my eye. Rhinestone templates, signs, banners, vehicle lettering and a lot more.
There is some crossover from one machine to another, but then the area greys a bit as you look farther into the capabilities and limitations of not only each machine make and model, but machine "types" as well.

Some examples:

An Ioline flatbed cutter has been the gold standard in the embroidery industry for many years. The carrier tray, cutting force and material holding system sets it apart from roll cutters. One model will even cut leather. Folks who have these use it for everything from cutting applique materials to "KISS CUT" lettering for school jackets. The Ioline has it's limitations in that it is limited to the material tray size and inability to handle roll materials.

Roll type vinyl cutters have the obvious advantage of accepting the long rolls of materials for vehicle, window and wall graphics, as well as banner graphics. Because of the roller systen that is used, they are obviously limited to handling certain material types.

Rotary engravers such as the Roland EGX series and Laser cutters are other possibilities for rhinestone templates
and again there is a size limitation, but they can be used for different finished products than the other machines above can handle.

The Eagle and knk style of flatbed cutter to me is a very unique "hybrid" cutter in that it started out as a roll cutter, then the bolt-on tables were added to emulate the operation of a flatbed cutter. Some type of carrier tray or material is then used with some type of tacky adhesive, similar to the more familiar IOLINE and other true flatbed cutters. We learned that other enhancements were also added in addition to the tables. Some of the US cutters have table-type attachments as well. It's actually pretty simple with a few bucks worth of material from Lowes or Home Depot to add "table" to any roll cutter to eliminate that curved front and rear surface.
A found a lot of cutter owners using the "Cricut" mats from the little hobby cutters on their bigger cutters.

When the tables are removed, how well does each cutter track long materials? Tracking accuracy and roll material handling are questions I would also be asking when considering a machine. I would also ask about a roll handling system. Does it come with the machine or is it available as an accessory. You are not going to cut a 20 foot long graphic without it. MAybe you won't care about a 20 foot graphic. What about 10 foot? Wall lettering in homes is very popluar now. Removable vinyl is very inexpensive. You may not be interested in doing vehicle or window lettering now, but what about in 2 years, even if just for your own needs? "Force" has been discussed a lot, but not one mention by anyone of long tracking accuracy.

The choice of a cutter to me has been like peeling the proverbial onion. I am actually glad I had some issues up front with the perceived integrity of a vendor that caused me to look further, as I discovered a cutter is not a cutter is not a cutter.

I hope this give some ideas for other uses, and there are lots more.

I have not even gotten into software capabilities yet.......


----------



## accu4321

bfgraphics said:


> Gary,
> 
> Thanks for all the the excellent information. "Long winded" is not a problem, as the "wind" was full of very helpful info.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of emphasis put on the fact that the knk is not a "production" machine, but that is subjective and will mean different things to different people. There is a very diverse group here, as we all make and peddle different products to try to keep food on the table in this very tumultuous economy.
> To me, production means it should not be used for continuous use at average or high speeds, as if to be used to to make templates for sale. A larger majority of folks would probably use the machines for templates for their own use, selling either the rhinestone motifs or the garments.
> I believe it was mentioned that a "coil" burning out might be a hazard of pushing the machine near it's limits.
> So if used in a higher than average hobby mode, the danger is a coil can overheat and burn out due to not having enough "cool down" time between templates is my assumption.
> 
> Are replacement coils stocked at your facility and what do they cost? I guess I have the same question about the stepper motors, power supply and main board. We know what these items cost for another brand, just as an example. I ask this question as it can be a deciding factor if the fear of a burned out coil or motor can be relieved with a fairly inexpensive user repair.
> 
> I guess if someone was considering one of these machines and was concerned about a failure, maybe keeping an "emergency kit" of the weakest link spare parts on hand might not be a bad idea. I am assuming the coil mentioned would be the coil that lowers / holds the cutting head downward in the cutting position?
> 
> Going out on a limb here, but would the heavier duty coil from the Eagle or falcon work on the knk, or would the additional milli-amp current draw of the eagle coil be too much for the knk main board? I realize there could be other constraints, such as physical size/shape or a different coil voltage, but it is a thought. Not trying to redesign your machines, just looking for a solution to the weakest link (s).
> 
> All the other differences were recognized and the comparison is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks again for your participation and candid answers to some very important and timely question.
> 
> Bob


Hello Bob
I am very slow to respnd here so please forgive me as we are swamped coming back from our Vacation.
We call the KNK Maxx a Prosumer machine...being able to do some high end things at less than Professional machine price. It is really not my concern that it will blow up as much as we seen the deformation of the hole shape when cutting fast ,we changed the head position in relation to the pinch wheel rollers for the Falcon and Eagle( giving away our secrets). We have not done high load ,long term testing for Rhinestone Motif cutting with the Maxx....so I won't dare go there,and won't make any warranty statements .Truly this puts our company in a position of having angry customers when a machine is used in an inappropriate fashion. Believe me we do not want that to happen. We want HAPPY customers. So for low to medium use and slower speeds it is my opinion that the Maxx will last for a long long time with cutting Rhinestone Motifs. Sandy M has done a fair amount of cutting Rhinestone Motifs with her Maxx and I believe she has not encountered any major problems.It could well be a great entry level solution.The Maxx really is a strong machine.

We stock a huge amount of repair parts . We are an authorized repair center for many brands of cutters . For our own brands we have the largest parts inventory. I believe if you are in the machinery business you need to have the parts. The good thing is we rarely need them . Prices are typical ,Low priced machines have low priced parts and high end machines have more expensive parts prices. I do not a parts replacement price list at hand but I will get one together.


Best Regards
Gary


----------



## bfgraphics

plan b said:


> You guy's are fueling this thread and its obvious whats going on.
> 
> Its to the point now that readers are getting confused by the same questions asked and answered by just re-constructing the same questions.


I am not sure what you are saying is "obvious" that is going on here. Machine and software selection in the past has been clouded by the claims of only a couple of machine vendor's choices. Anyone who has attended a Printwear or NBM trade show knows what I am talking about.
Some of us looked at other choices but the lack of a good solid history was lacking, or suspect. Options now being presented are being discussed with as many considerations as possible. This is open and honest discussion. I do not see any flaming that has even a hint of names attached. No one wants to make a $3500, $5500 or even $1000 mistake.
I think a lot of us truly appreciate the research done by BobbieLee and the background and factual information presented by Gary and Sandy. These are all things that most here were unaware of in the past.

I said this before and will repeat it again. No dealer or vendor should take a factual review of machine specs and potential personally. If someone here does not have the facts straight, please correct us or at least tell us your side of the story or your facts. 
I don't see any agenda here other than a quest for information.


----------



## bfgraphics

accu4321 said:


> Hello Bob
> 
> We stock a huge amount of repair parts . We are an authorized repair center for many brands of cutters . For our own brands we have the largest parts inventory. I believe if you are in the machinery business you need to have the parts. The good thing is we rarely need them . Prices are typical ,Low priced machines have low priced parts and high end machines have more expensive parts prices. I do not a parts replacement price list at hand but I will get one together.
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> Gary


 Gary,

We heard you just returned from vacation and certainly appreciate your time on these questions, and do not want your business or customer service to suffer because of time on this list.

I don't think anyone could ask for a better response than the above and I know I appreciate your honest and candid reply.
Thank you.


----------



## dan-ann

wow thank you Sandy -


----------



## Rodney

plan b said:


> Here is a break down as far as the information that I have on higher end cutter memory.
> 
> Eagle-- 4 MB
> 
> Roland GX24-- 800 Kb
> 
> Graphtec 5000-60-- 2 Mb


Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. I'm surprised the Roland GX-24 has the lowest amount of internal memory. 

I haven't seen it have any issues with regular cutting. Does the memory play more of an effect when it comes to rhinestone templates, or is it with *any* intricately cut design?


----------



## dan-ann

Thank you Bob - this was very informative. my business is embroidery have included rhinestones and would like to add more areas


----------



## Bling

Bob:

As I have recently said, you do a great job and are so knowlegable! Thank you.

Beverley


----------



## accu4321

Rodney said:


> Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. I'm surprised the Roland GX-24 has the lowest amount of internal memory.
> 
> I haven't seen it have any issues with regular cutting. Does the memory play more of an effect when it comes to rhinestone templates, or is it with *any* intricately cut design?



Hello Rodney
There are a few factors in buffer memory . Older and usually less expensive machines have a slower Baud rate.... this the rate at which it transfers the data to the hardware from the computer This is directly linear with the speed a cutter can go... example if the plotter can cut faster than the flow of information, the cutter will be slowed waiting for information. The plotter sends a signal back to the computer when the buffer is full and tells it not to send ..."buffer full "then as data is eaten the plotter will now send the message to start sending. We have found that a larger memory will circumvent data being lost because it can send a larger string of data the to the larger memory chip. It will aslo curcumvent problems if the flow control between Hardware devices and Computer are not set up correctly.

Now the amount of data on a circle in much more than a straight line and with hundreds or thousands of little circles the file size is much larger ....this may lead to inconsistent cuts and data loss. Theoretically if the machine and Computer are set up properly the SYSTEM should work flawlessly. Many times there are conflicts with other devices that destroy the theory.
Soooo my opinion is that bigger memory less problems.
Hope this helps
Gary


----------



## accu4321

Girlzndollz said:


> Can someone please tell me:
> 
> 1. How many "MIL" this rhinestone stencil material is? (30 mil, 42 mil? Not mm, but "mil".)
> 
> 2. Does the material have an adhesive back?
> 
> Thank you.




Hello Our Template material is 20 mil plus the adhesive and liner. Yes it is PSA.
Thanks
Gary


----------



## charles95405

This has certainly been an interesting thread. As some of you may know, I started playing with Rhinestone templates/transfers about 2 years ago. I currently own two systems. Each with it's own strengths and while some of the abilities of the systems are duplicates...other abilities are used for different purposes. This post has opened up some new areas for some of us..others will not be so enthralled but there are some jewels of information scattered among the posts.

A couple of observations... I have had an opportunity to read a manual for the Eagle that I understand was written by SandyM and I must say it is the clearest manual for most users that I have read...great job! and after looking at SandyM's rhinestone tutorials, I can see that she has a good grasp of her subjects and explains them well and shows how a relatively inexpensive machine can be used for things I did not believe would be done. There are some elements in the KNK Maxx software and the ACS software that is absent in the more expensive sets. This is not to say one is better...just that _some _elements _seem _easier

Most of us who do not use CAM machines do not use our equipment hours on end ...or even everyday as we are somewhat diversified in our projects and sales goals...to say nothing about some lack of space for a lot of equipment.

In the end, there is a place for each of the machines....and I am sure more systems will evolve. without throwing stones at any system, I think the prospective user should look at each and the software used and it will fit with the projected uses. 

I can see limits of each of the machines...no one fills ALL the needs that ALL of us may want but any of them will do a credible job IF we understand the machine and software. It is clear that SandyM has a better grasp of the software she is using in her tutorials than I have in what I use....This tells me I must go back to basics and become better with what I have. Also thanks to Gary for his posts and information shared

I hope that those who will make a purchase of one of the systems will give us some feedback on their experiences.


----------



## SandyMcC

charles95405 said:


> A couple of observations... I have had an opportunity to read a manual for the Eagle that I understand was written by SandyM and I must say it is the clearest manual for most users that I have read...great job! and after looking at SandyM's rhinestone tutorials, I can see that she has a good grasp of her subjects and explains them well and shows how a relatively inexpensive machine can be used for things I did not believe would be done. There are some elements in the KNK Maxx software and the ACS software that is absent in the more expensive sets. This is not to say one is better...just that _some _elements _seem _easier


Thank you so much, Charles! I take my job as a technical writer and "cutter educator" seriously. I want everyone to be successful and to learn as much as possible about the software and how to get the results they need from their cutters. 

Also, KNK Studio/ACS Studio is highly addictive software!  Even after almost 3 years, I STILL enjoy opening it every single day, designing whatever I need to cut out.... and making videos for my blog or to sell. I call that software "the gift that keeps on giving" because there never seems to be an end to how you can use the dozens of features to make unique custom designs.


----------



## Girlzndollz

My personal thanks to *every* single person in this thread, because everyone has contributed to this being a really well rounded discussion on the machines. 

I am seriously considering this machine myself. If I do go ahead, I will certainly share my experiences.  

But, I will share that as the thread continued, and I sensed a perceived lack of confidence in the Maxx to cut templates, and that had me hesitant about my original excitement. Hence the *sole basis* for my questions.

I would really, really like to thank Gary for this:



accu4321 said:


> We want HAPPY customers. So for low to medium use and slower speeds it is my opinion that the Maxx will last for a long long time with cutting Rhinestone Motifs. Sandy M has done a fair amount of cutting Rhinestone Motifs with her Maxx and I believe she has not encountered any major problems.It could well be a great entry level solution.The Maxx really is a strong machine.


That is the answer/inforamtion/feedback that I have been waiting on. Others are really interested in the "production" comparison, and that was really focused on, but there are also those of us who are the user that Gary described above. Thank you again for putting this out there for us. 

In the end, I may not even use the machine for anything but personal use, depending on the CPSIA and lead testing. There is that to deal with, and time will tell where that goes. But I still want one of these things, badly, haha. Knowing what the level of confidence in the machine, just like Gary just posted, is all I really wanted to know. As you can see, Gary, I can't thank you enough.


----------



## ashamutt

Girlzndollz said:


> Agreed, and thanks again, SandyM. Appreciate it, as there is alot of interest in what the machine can do, from many perspectives.


yes!! Thanks so much SandyM for offering your time!!!
It is truly MUCH appreciated!!!

I will be using the 4mm and larger stones as well......but maybe _once in a while_ the 2mm's on a hat or something of that nature(the designs will be small(micro) of course for the hats)

I have a sun visor now that has this type of "micro rhinestone" design on it. 
It is a pink flamingo made out of 2mm stones and a 3mm stone for the eye. I purchased it at a Sanibel Island "up-scale" gift shop for 35.00 on sale!!!(Too much - I know - ,but I had to have some sort of sun protection!!LOL) 
There were only a few of each item in the store so I am guessing that "micro-rhinestoning" has not reached a "mass-market" yet.
Too bad because that would be a money maker!!!
.......the 2mm stone design is about 1.75" x 1.25" so it is very small and not a lot of cutter memory would be required. 
My Graphtec could handle the job just fine.......but, I would like to see what the KNK could do!  ...... on all size stones. (but mainly, for the 4mm and larger since that is what most shirts are stoned with) (please correct me if I am wrong)
Again....thanks so much!


----------



## sunnydayz

> When the tables are removed, how well does each cutter track long materials? Tracking accuracy and roll material handling are questions I would also be asking when considering a machine


 - quoted from Bob's message

This is a very good question, because if it does track well, this does indeed make it more versatile then just a regular cutter, as it also has the flat bed.
SandyM, have you cut any long lengths of any material? If so have is been fairly accurate for tracking the material?
Gary do you know what the accuracy is on the tracking?

I think I seen this back a bit, but will just ask again because I dont remember if it was mentioned. What is the warranty on the Maxx
and does it include all parts and labor, is it one year? I do remember Sandy M saying that turnaround time on repairs is usually around 1 to 3 days,
is this once it reaches your facility Gary?



> Machine and software selection in the past has been clouded by the claims of only a couple of machine vendor's choices. Anyone who has attended a Printwear or NBM trade show knows what I am talking about.


 - quoted from Bob's message

I have to say I totally agree with Bob here, as I have attended many trade shows, and when purchasing equipment I have learned that no question is a dumb question, and then when you get an 
an answer verify it to be true haha  I went through alot of research buying my direct to garment printer, and it is amazing how much different information can be from the manufacturer and its distributors. So it really is great to get it right from the horses mouth here  I really think once I finish taking care of reorganizing my business (due to cspia) I am very seriously
considering the KNK Maxx. It really sounds like it would be perfect for some things I have ideas about 



> A couple of observations... I have had an opportunity to read a manual for the Eagle that I understand was written by SandyM and I must say it is the clearest manual for most users that I have read...great job! and after looking at SandyM's rhinestone tutorials, I can see that she has a good grasp of her subjects and explains them well and shows how a relatively inexpensive machine can be used for things I did not believe would be done


 - quoted from Charles message

This is one of the things that completely amazes me  I have dealt with a lot of learning with all of my different equipment and programs I use. I have to say that those tutorials, and Sandy M's way of explanation is very clear and easy to understand, and it truly is hard sometimes to find such clear explanations and personal support from some vendors in general. I was very impressed by her attention to detail and making things easy to understand. Her video tutorials are really good for showing what you can do as well Charles .

I really wanted to thank everyone for answering questions and helping us all decide it this is a option for us. For me it seems that it very well can be.

I am very interested in its tracking capabilities.


----------



## BML Builder

I just found this thread and finished reading the 26 pages of content. 

First of all, thank you very much Bobbielee for starting this thread. I had never heard of the KNK before this and it is really nice to see another option at a much lower cost. Next, thank you very much to SandyMc and Gary for all of the info about the machines. Finally, thank you very much for all of the others including Kelly, Bob, Charles, Rodney, and Sandy Jo for all your questions and responses to all the info provided here. 

I along with the many others that have read and responded to this thread really appreciate being able to hear about the information available and the willingness of everyone to help us get info to make an informed decision as to what options we may have to rhinestoning. I like many others do mostly embroidering and DTG but have added the rhinestones to the mix and would like to have more viable options to do them. I do not intend to make a lot of templates for sale, however I like to be able to make my own template for my own use for multiple uses. So having a less expensive option available is really nice to see. If one day my work goes in a different direction I would love to have one of the more expensive options, especially one of the cam machines, but at this point I do not have the need for it. 

Gary, you said that in the near future that you may be including the ACS software with a KNK machine for a lesser price than the Eagle or Falcon, do you have any idea when that may be??

Thanks again to everyone that has contributing to this great thread!!!!


----------



## DTFuqua

Another thing you might ask is what kind of motors do these two cutters use. Stepper or servo? Steppers are whats used in the cheaper USCutter machines and servos are in most of the better brand name cutters.


----------



## SandyMcC

BML Builder said:


> I just found this thread and finished reading the 26 pages of content.
> 
> First of all, thank you very much Bobbielee for starting this thread. I had never heard of the KNK before this and it is really nice to see another option at a much lower cost. Next, thank you very much to SandyMc and Gary for all of the info about the machines. Finally, thank you very much for all of the others including Kelly, Bob, Charles, Rodney, and Sandy Jo for all your questions and responses to all the info provided here.
> 
> I along with the many others that have read and responded to this thread really appreciate being able to hear about the information available and the willingness of everyone to help us get info to make an informed decision as to what options we may have to rhinestoning. I like many others do mostly embroidering and DTG but have added the rhinestones to the mix and would like to have more viable options to do them. I do not intend to make a lot of templates for sale, however I like to be able to make my own template for my own use for multiple uses. So having a less expensive option available is really nice to see. If one day my work goes in a different direction I would love to have one of the more expensive options, especially one of the cam machines, but at this point I do not have the need for it.
> 
> Gary, you said that in the near future that you may be including the ACS software with a KNK machine for a lesser price than the Eagle or Falcon, do you have any idea when that may be??
> 
> Thanks again to everyone that has contributing to this great thread!!!!


It will be available by the end of today.


----------



## ashamutt

DTFuqua said:


> Another thing you might ask is what kind of motors do these two cutters use. Stepper or servo? Steppers are whats used in the cheaper USCutter machines and servos are in most of the better brand name cutters.


GREAT question!!!!!
I was thinking about this last night.

(my Graphtec ce5000-60 has a SERVO motor)


----------



## accu4321

Hello
We use a Hybrid motor and control system that has Micro Stepper motors. They are much smoother and accurate than standard steppers. There is not necessarily a correlation of price difference from Stepper and Servo. This can be a very deep subject and I don't think I should go here because it will take me hours to properly portrait the technicalities. Some companies call closed loop stepper systems" Servo" and there is a lot of skewing of the truth. Some of the most expensive CNC systems use Stepper and some Servo. It comes down to quality first and method for purpose and lastly and still important is price . Servo systems are most always much faster than Stepper but when you can only cut a said material so fast what is the need to have a system that can exceed a maximum cutting speed of the material .
Regards
Gary


----------



## ashamutt

accu4321 said:


> Hello
> We use a Hybrid motor and control system that has Micro Stepper motors. They are much smoother and accurate than standard steppers. There is not necessarily a correlation of price difference from Stepper and Servo. This can be a very deep subject and I don't think I should go here because it will take me hours to properly portrait the technicalities. Some companies call closed loop stepper systems" Servo" and there is a lot of skewing of the truth. Some of the most expensive CNC systems use Stepper and some Servo. It comes down to quality first and method for purpose and lastly and still important is price . Servo systems are most always much faster than Stepper but when you can only cut a said material so fast what is the need to have a system that can exceed a maximum cutting speed of the material .
> Regards
> Gary


 
Hey Gary Thanks for all of the info!

....please tell me..... is this a good (brief) description of servo & stepper motors....???
AMCI : Tech Tutorials : Stepper vs. Servo


P.S. I still LOVE the Graphtec you sold me!!!!


----------



## accu4321

Hello 
I quickly read the article and it is very accurate however as we all know Electronics are being upgraded daily. Their quote was I think standard 100 poles ours are 180 poles (more accurate) and Micro stepper also adds 33% more poles through holding a negative and negative magnetic force to create a middle imaginary pole between 2 physical poles. Again this can get very deep and confusing. The stepper pulses to bring the motor vanes to the next and it takes a high frequency controller to do it quickly .
Wow what are we getting into here!!! You all don't need to know this, you need to be creating !!!!


----------



## ashamutt

You are a BRAIN!!!!
...and ...as always.... thanks for the great service!!!!


----------



## sjidohair

I totally agree with Garys knowledge on the machines, he sells, and creates,, he is one in a million, and then for him to choose his team carefully, Eagleultraforce and SandyM as well as many others we dont know,, let alone the softwear and support, that all his team provide,, some of it is free, with the purchase of the machines and some of it is paid per hour,, and all of it is the Best, I have seen,, ever. 
Sandy jo


----------



## DTFuqua

OK. No its not OK. We should be thinking about this if we are to be informed consumers and make good purchasing decisions. I personally take offense at being told "I don't need to know something". Who do you think you are? I wouldn't take it from him either. I really have a lot more "feedback" regarding anyone thinking I shouldn't be bothering with learning something for my own good. BUT, I won't elaborate any further on THAT subject any further unless you'd like my opinions via a PM.
I don't fully pursue the latest updates on stepper motors and such but, the last research (limited it may have been) I did on the subject said that the micro stepping function is part of the controllers. That may possibly the reason for the upgraded circuitry ( Mother board or controller board) mentioned previously as different between the KNK and the Eagle. There is also a "smooth stepping function that I have limited knowledge of at this time that may make improvements in control ability and smooth functioning of the cutters. Maybe? 
If you guys want a real relationship with your users/customers, you shouldn't be condescending towards them/us!


----------



## charles95405

wow....Terry...I sure did not think this was condesending for Gary to make the comment....I took it as we need to be creating with WHICH EVER machine we choose...He gave the info..take it or leave it...but please don't bash him for this comment..For one I appreciate the info...I may not totally understand it but then I don't need to IF the machines I have do what I want.

I think we are getting far too technical for _most_ of us. But if you need the info...there it is


----------



## ashamutt

DTFuqua said:


> OK. No its not OK. We should be thinking about this if we are to be informed consumers and make good purchasing decisions. I personally take offense at being told "I don't need to know something". Who do you think you are? George W(armonger) Bush. I wouldn't take it from him either. I really have a lot more "feedback" regarding anyone thinking I shouldn't be bothering with learning something for my own good. BUT, I won't elaborate any further on THAT subject any further unless you'd like my opinions via a PM.
> I don't fully pursue the latest updates on stepper motors and such but, the last research (limited it may have been) I did on the subject said that the micro stepping function is part of the controllers. That may possibly the reason for the upgraded circuitry ( Mother board or controller board) mentioned previously as different between the KNK and the Eagle. There is also a "smooth stepping function that I have limited knowledge of at this time that may make improvements in control ability and smooth functioning of the cutters. Maybe?
> If you guys want a real relationship with your users/customers, you shouldn't be condescending towards them/us!


yes.... I would like to learn the GUTS of EVERY machine that I purchase.
.....to compare , ya know!?!?

I guess I am weird that way.


----------



## sunnydayz

BML Builder said:


> I just found this thread and finished reading the 26 pages of content.
> 
> First of all, thank you very much Bobbielee for starting this thread. I had never heard of the KNK before this and it is really nice to see another option at a much lower cost. Next, thank you very much to SandyMc and Gary for all of the info about the machines. Finally, thank you very much for all of the others including Kelly, Bob, Charles, Rodney, and Sandy Jo for all your questions and responses to all the info provided here.
> 
> I along with the many others that have read and responded to this thread really appreciate being able to hear about the information available and the willingness of everyone to help us get info to make an informed decision as to what options we may have to rhinestoning. I like many others do mostly embroidering and DTG but have added the rhinestones to the mix and would like to have more viable options to do them. I do not intend to make a lot of templates for sale, however I like to be able to make my own template for my own use for multiple uses. So having a less expensive option available is really nice to see. If one day my work goes in a different direction I would love to have one of the more expensive options, especially one of the cam machines, but at this point I do not have the need for it.
> 
> Gary, you said that in the near future that you may be including the ACS software with a KNK machine for a lesser price than the Eagle or Falcon, do you have any idea when that may be??
> 
> Thanks again to everyone that has contributing to this great thread!!!!


Well I cannot take the credit for starting this thread as Sandy Jo did that, I pretty much just brought up the topic more deeply of the KNK maxx as another option after researching and posting it here http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t78625-14.html#post541334. My point is that all of the members here whether they are consumers or suppliers can all take the credit for providing so much information to really open up all options that are available, by asking so many great questions, and providing so many valuable answers. This thread I am sure will help many many members to come, which is the most important part of this.

I do still have these questions that I would love it it SandyM and Gary could answer http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t78625-26.html#post543808, post #379 is where it is located on page 26. I think there is so much info coming out here, they might have gotten overlooked  So just wanted to ask them again haha. 

Love all the help every one is contributing to this, it really is opening doors for all levels of production


----------



## DTFuqua

Thats not being weird Mrs. B., thats being a responsible person. When you have all the information and it hasn't been skewed to misrepresent something, you can make the best decision you are able. I know there are a lot of people that would rather not be troubled with details of anything but their special area of concern, but I feel they are lazy in a sence that is worse than someone that never works a lick. We should all be informed consumers and more importantly, informed citizens. Use advertisments to discover what may be available but then dig deep into any subject for the honest truth . Don't let slick advertisments or smart sounding half truths be the information you use in your dialy life.


----------



## SandyMcC

DTFuqua said:


> OK. No its not OK. We should be thinking about this if we are to be informed consumers and make good purchasing decisions. I personally take offense at being told "I don't need to know something". Who do you think you are? George W(armonger) Bush. I wouldn't take it from him either. I really have a lot more "feedback" regarding anyone thinking I shouldn't be bothering with learning something for my own good. BUT, I won't elaborate any further on THAT subject any further unless you'd like my opinions via a PM.
> I don't fully pursue the latest updates on stepper motors and such but, the last research (limited it may have been) I did on the subject said that the micro stepping function is part of the controllers. That may possibly the reason for the upgraded circuitry ( Mother board or controller board) mentioned previously as different between the KNK and the Eagle. There is also a "smooth stepping function that I have limited knowledge of at this time that may make improvements in control ability and smooth functioning of the cutters. Maybe?
> If you guys want a real relationship with your users/customers, you shouldn't be condescending towards them/us!


Definitely do not take Gary's remark as condescending. He's accustomed to me jumping on him when he gets too technical in answering questions at the KNK Yahoo groups!  Almost all of our users have the opinion that if it works, great... I don't want to know anything more, thank you very much! Obviously the make up of this message board is a lot different than our paper crafting groups... many of you have been using cutters for years and have not only an interest in the constructional differences between one cutter and the next, but REALLY understand this stuff when it's answered. I'm very impressed. 

So, cut him some slack on this one! He will ALWAYS be happy to answer ALL of your questions, including the highly technical ones.


----------



## plan b

Information given here by Gary is way more than any one in the business is going to give you. The man is bending over backwards to give everyone the information that is asked and then some.


----------



## sjidohair

And so do you Roger, I also believe Sandy M does also,, as we get to know her more , I think this will be apparant,
Sandy JO


----------



## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> - quoted from Bob's message
> 
> This is a very good question, because if it does track well, this does indeed make it more versatile then just a regular cutter, as it also has the flat bed.
> SandyM, have you cut any long lengths of any material? If so have is been fairly accurate for tracking the material?
> Gary do you know what the accuracy is on the tracking?


I'll ask Gary to address this one tomorrow. I have not cut anything longer than about 24" and it was dead on. But I know that those using the Maxx to cut vinyl wall words haven't mentioned having any issues with tracking. 



sunnydayz said:


> I think I seen this back a bit, but will just ask again because I dont remember if it was mentioned. What is the warranty on the Maxx
> and does it include all parts and labor, is it one year? I do remember Sandy M saying that turnaround time on repairs is usually around 1 to 3 days,
> is this once it reaches your facility Gary?


Maxx has a one year parts and labor warranty. And yes, the 1-3 days is after it reaches Accugraphic in Florida, thus obviously the shipping time will vary depending on how far away the customer lives. 




sunnydayz said:


> - quoted from Bob's message
> 
> I have to say I totally agree with Bob here, as I have attended many trade shows, and when purchasing equipment I have learned that no question is a dumb question, and then when you get an
> an answer verify it to be true haha


I agree completely... and we are always happy to answer all questions. I apologize for missing this post earlier. I will get more information on tracking to you or ask Gary to answer it when he's back to work tomorrow.


----------



## DTFuqua

Now to my concern (besides the political ones) . I seem to remember someone mentioning the possibility of KNK and ACS coming together and If true, what about the software? And is there a possibility of getting a few drivers for some of the more common cutters? Specifically, the Graphtec CE5000-60? Thanks and sorry if I jumped on my high horse a little too quickly.
OK, one political question. for whomever stated that the Graphtec's are made in China, would you please post where the information is located ? Or at least speak up about why you think it is made in China?


----------



## plan b

DTFuqua said:


> Now to my concern (besides the political ones) . I seem to remember someone mentioning the possibility of KNK and ACS coming together and If true, what about the software? And is there a possibility of getting a few drivers for some of the more common cutters? Specifically, the Graphtec CE5000-60? Thanks and sorry if I jumped on my high horse a little too quickly.
> OK, one political question. for whomever stated that the Graphtec's are made in China, would you please post where the information is located ? Or at least speak up about why you think it is made in China?


This may have been done most recently, they have redisgned some models for this new go around of releases.

Gary would have to answer his intentions on the machine and software.


----------



## ashamutt

DTFuqua said:


> Now to my concern (besides the political ones) . I seem to remember someone mentioning the possibility of KNK and ACS coming together and If true, what about the software? And is there a possibility of getting a few drivers for some of the more common cutters? Specifically, the Graphtec CE5000-60? Thanks and sorry if I jumped on my high horse a little too quickly.
> OK, one political question. for whomever stated that the Graphtec's are made in China, would you please post where the information is located ? Or at least speak up about why you think it is made in China?


It's ok Terry ....we ALL have "high horses" sometimes!!! 
You would be able to meet mine a lot more often if this was a "talking/speech" forum....as I really do not like to write/type that much! LOL! (my mouth usually gets ahead of my brain.....but "typing" is a different/difficult thing for me)

Anyway...... I am not interested in purchasing the Eagle or the Falcon .... because I am not in the "rhinestone template *production*" arena.
....and I cannot afford the 3000+ price tag.
(kudos to those who can and are in the production business)

I am interested in doing this kind of thing on my Graphtec.(like you are)
Or possibly the KNK....*if* it is better than the Graphtec.


----------



## dan-ann

well could you put a red flag on the technical posts? They come under the catagory of "I don't need to know that much info LOL I am one of those who just want to know if it works , how good the service is and the cost.


----------



## plan b

dan-ann said:


> well could you put a red flag on the technical posts? They come under the catagory of "I don't need to know that much info LOL I am one of those who just want to know if it works , how good the service is and the cost.


Words well said !!!!!


----------



## Girlzndollz

Hi folks, this thread is for "everyone".  I thought that's why we were asking SandyM to test the 2mm, 3mm, and 4mm size stones.  I don't really see a difference here. Some want more user orientated info, some want more techinal info, some want stress tests, some want real-life situation template samples, capacity tests. It's all is relevant to each for their own needs. We are just really fortunate to have access to such gracious, knowledgable people who are willing to share what they can on all of the topics. Thanks again for that. 

PS: There are many more readers of the thread than posters. Sometimes we can never know what *all* of the readers are getting the most out of in the posts. I don't think any amount of education can ever be irrelevant. I'm going back to enjoying the info being posted. All the best.


----------



## ashamutt

dan-ann said:


> well could you put a red flag on the technical posts? They come under the catagory of "I don't need to know that much info LOL I am one of those who just want to know if it works , how good the service is and the cost.


Good idea!....... it will help those of us who "*do* need to know that much"(_and more_) too!!


I want it all!!!! LOL
"_user orientated info, some want more techinal info, some want stress tests, some want real-life situation template samples, capacity tests_"


----------



## ashamutt

Girlzndollz said:


> Hi folks, this thread is for "everyone".  I thought that's why we were asking SandyM to test the 2mm, 3mm, and 4mm size stones.  I don't really see a difference here. Some want more user orientated info, some want more techinal info, some want stress tests, some want real-life situation template samples, capacity tests. It's all is relevant to each for their own needs. We are just really fortunate to have access to such gracious, knowledgable people who are willing to share what they can on all of the topics. Thanks again for that.


TOTALLY agree......this is for us all!!



Girlzndollz said:


> PS: There are many more readers of the thread than posters. Sometimes we can never know what *all* of the readers are getting the most out of in the posts. I don't think any amount of education can ever be irrelevant. I'm going back to enjoying the info being posted. All the best.


Over 9,000 readers!!!! ....just think of how many potential eagle's, knk's , etc.....might be sold now!!!!!!!...just because of this thread


PLEASE....keep ALL of the info coming!
....and thanks for sharing!!!
(I love it when my eyes hurt!)


----------



## sunnydayz

Well I am definitely one that believes you should know what you are buying, and its all in the details. When I purchase equipment I don't take anything for granted. Just like the research I have done here, I did the same thing when I purchased my DTG machine. For me its all about what it made of and what it can do. 

Too much information never hurt anyone (one of my dads favorite quotes)  It only helps you to understand better what you are getting for your money. I myself have issues with any vendor that believes there are things a customer does not need to know. I know I dealt with that a bunch when shopping for my DTG, and my decision was based very highly on how forth coming I thought a vendor was as well as the quality of the machine. In fact there were several machines that I outright dismissed because I felt I could not get proper information on them from the vendor. I guess my theory is that if a vendor cant give me the information to begin with, he wont be there for me if I ever have a problem.

I love that the details are being answered here, for all of those members like me that want the details


----------



## accu4321

Hello Terry
Please don't be offended ,when we use emails and forum text a lot is lost ,we have no tonality or body language that indicated the jest intended so that is why I put happy faces etc... Just so you know I don't operate with any nasty intentions ,it would be suicide ! I merely meant that I think general questions for consumers are important and delving too deep may only confuse .I think PM is the way to go for the questions that are more highly technical....just an opinion.Best Regards
Gary


----------



## sunnydayz

Gary, 

You have been more then forthcoming then most vendors, and its been really, really appreciated 

I guess that was what I was saying above is that you were being very helpful, more so then most 

Does the eagle and the Knk have the same motor in them ? That was a question i thought of over night. Also do you know how accurate the tracking is on the Knk? For longer length materials? 

Thanks again for your valuable input


----------



## ashamutt

accu4321 said:


> Hello Terry
> Please don't be offended ,when we use emails and forum text a lot is lost ,we have no tonality or body language that indicated the jest intended so that is why I put happy faces etc... Just so you know I don't operate with any nasty intentions ,it would be suicide ! I merely meant that I think general questions for consumers are important and delving too deep may only confuse .I think PM is the way to go for the questions that are more highly technical....just an opinion.Best Regards
> Gary


I have spoken to Gary over the phone several times(_while purchasing my Graphtec from him_) and met him and his wife personally while at the ISS Orlando.

I can personally testify that he is VERY nice and jolly.  And he will answer ANY question that you ask.
(I do believe that one might say he could play "santa" at Christmas time) 


Note:
I(for one) would still like the "tech" questions to be answered as much/best as possible.


*The below was added AFTER "thanks" was given......*

Idea:
maybe for the "TECH" answers one could actually type "TECH ANSWER" in red , then post the answer.
??
That way the "non-tech" readers can skip over it.
??


----------



## BML Builder

sunnydayz said:


> Gary,
> 
> You have been more then forthcoming then most vendors, and its been really, really appreciated
> 
> I guess that was what I was saying above is that you were being very helpful, more so then most
> 
> Does the eagle and the Knk have the same motor in them ? That was a question i thought of over night. Also do you know how accurate the tracking is on the Knk? For longer length materials?
> 
> Thanks again for your valuable input


I agree with BobbieLee completely!!! Gary, you have been very helpful and it is greatly appreciated!!! There are some people that just want to know if the equipment will work for what they want and others want to know the more technical info. My husband is an electrician so he likes to know all of the technical stuff and I just rely on him to make sure it will work for what I want. So in our house all of the information you are willing to share is very greatly appreciated and wanted!!!! Keep the info coming and thanks again!!!!


----------



## accu4321

sunnydayz said:


> Gary,
> 
> You have been more then forthcoming then most vendors, and its been really, really appreciated
> 
> I guess that was what I was saying above is that you were being very helpful, more so then most
> 
> Does the eagle and the Knk have the same motor in them ? That was a question i thought of over night. Also do you know how accurate the tracking is on the Knk? For longer length materials?
> 
> Thanks again for your valuable input


 Hello
Yes the KNK and the Eagle series have the same motors. 
We actually did some testing today on tracking and length of cut. 
1. Tracking can be media dependent....some materials like Flock may track differently than vinyl. 
2. Vinyl test today tracked very good for 20 ft. then some slight drift . We have had longer runs in other tests . If you do not initially put the media in perfectly straight there will be tendencies to drift. This is typical in ALL machines. Some less expensive are very bad .
3.To tell a story we had a customer years ago whom stored a roll of vinyl on the concrete floor, the end down swelled from moisture and when he run it in his plotter it drifted quickly. 
4. Our grit rollers are very aggressive and will grip hard, they don't slip easily.
5.I have asked 2 of our techs about their opinions and they say ours is much better than most Chinese machines and equivalent to the Graphtec CE series .
We have not compared all brands side by side. 

Best Regards
Gary


----------



## DTFuqua

The tracking problem from user error is there in all machines. Even on my Graphtec, if I have to make a long cut, I have to run the vinyl back and forth enough times to keep realigning it till it runs straight. I generaly fudge a little bit by putting my pinch rollers a little closer to the inside than I would for a short run giving a small amount of variance so I don't have to make it absolutely perfect. I also unroll enough vinyl to do the job and have it just hanging loose so the rollers don't have to jerk a heavy roll into motion often times resulting in a messed up cut.


----------



## sunnydayz

So I just read a blog post at Sandy M's site and it seems she is going to be a rep now for selling all the different systems from ACS. That is really cool, because if I decide to buy one that is where I am going  She lists her support that she offers when you buy from her, and there are definitely some extra perks there, here is where you can read it Digital Die Cutting With Sandy McCauley. 

I did have one question though on the demo software, I notice that a few features are not present such as saving and importing. I am assuming this is only because its the demo right? I also noticed I could not cut and paste, but I am assuming that once your software is registered those functions will work?

I wanted to come back and add more to why I stated what I did above.  I was in a hurry this morning but wanted to clarify my post a bit more. The reason why I would buy from there if I were to buy a machine is that I have gone through all the great tutorials and materials that are available and I am amazed by all that has been compiled over there. I really like when I have a question that I can find an answer, and there is so much info on her site that I would feel confident in either finding my answer there, or being able to get an answer if it is not there, since it has all been so thoroughly taken care of for sharing there. Since the answers here have answered my questions about the machines themselves, it would then come down to where would I get the best support. The Iloveknk site is very thorough, and truly represents what I look for, when trying to decide if I would get the support I need once I am an owner. 

Ok hope that explains my quick post this morning a little more


----------



## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> So I just read a blog post at Sandy M's site and it seems she is going to be a rep now for selling all the different systems from ACS. That is really cool, because if I decide to buy one that is where I am going  She lists her support that she offers when you buy from her, and there are definitely some extra perks there, here is where you can read it Digital Die Cutting With Sandy McCauley.
> 
> I did have one question though on the demo software, I notice that a few features are not present such as saving and importing. I am assuming this is only because its the demo right? I also noticed I could not cut and paste, but I am assuming that once your software is registered those functions will work?


Thanks, Bobbilee. I appreciate your vote of confidence. 

Yes... those features are turned off in the demo. Not being able to save is obvious. The copy/cut/paste feature is to prevent people from being able to use the demo to design files and then copy/paste them into other Windows applications. You can also only print 10 times...similar to how it will only cut 10 times. 

If you need to copy an image, there's a by-pass you can use. Just select the image and go to Layout>Array and then you can make multiples of your images that way. It doesn't go to the Windows clipboard, so the programmers left that ability in the demo.


----------



## sjidohair

yep Bobbie, you are right,, Gary opened up the eagle and falcon to SandyM and The knk machines to Roger at eagleultraforce.com
,I saw it on both of there sites yesterday my self, I think that was a good thing, the service from both of them will be great from whom ever chooses to purchase from whomever,, 
It is not often a Manufacturer listens to the consumer, but Gary did from ACS.
Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## sjidohair

Oh, yeah, when i was on the sites, yesterday, 
If anyone is interested in any of the Machines,, we have been discussing, make sure and ask, How much support is Free and what support you Pay for and the cost per hour.,, there are differences in the machines for tech support, that is Free, not the Distrubutors but the machines.. have different support criteria... 
but either way, it doesnt matter, when you need it,, you need it,, lol
Sandy jo
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

SandyMcC said:


> Thanks, Bobbilee. I appreciate your vote of confidence.
> 
> Yes... those features are turned off in the demo. Not being able to save is obvious. The copy/cut/paste feature is to prevent people from being able to use the demo to design files and then copy/paste them into other Windows applications. You can also only print 10 times...similar to how it will only cut 10 times.
> 
> If you need to copy an image, there's a by-pass you can use. Just select the image and go to Layout>Array and then you can make multiples of your images that way. It doesn't go to the Windows clipboard, so the programmers left that ability in the demo.


Thanks for clarifying that with the demo software. I figured that was what it was haha  But sometimes others would be confused as to why those features might be missing.


----------



## sunnydayz

sjidohair said:


> Oh, yeah, when i was on the sites, yesterday,
> If anyone is interested in any of the Machines,, we have been discussing, make sure and ask, How much support is Free and what support you Pay for and the cost per hour.,, there are differences in the machines for tech support, that is Free, not the Distrubutors but the machines.. have different support criteria...
> but either way, it doesnt matter, when you need it,, you need it,, lol
> Sandy jo
> MMM


Yep I agree totally that each member should check to make sure what is available. That was why I was so impressed with the Iloveknk site, as it has it completely listed of what you get and what you pay for.


----------



## allhamps

Hi Gary and welcome aboard. I too hope you can answer some of the questions. There are a lot of things going back and forth here about the cutters and their advantages/disadvantages. Right now, I'm using a Puma III w/440g downforce. This seems fine for the Hartco that I have used to replace the more expensive "template" material I have seen offered by just about everyone else. I'd love to have an Eagle or other machine with 1500g of downforce. Don't know what I would cut with it, but I'm sure I could find something. Right now, my main questions center around the following:

1. Why is the stencil material so expensive and the size so limiting. I switched to the Hartco for the cheaper price, but also because I could get it in 15", 20", or 25" widths. My main reason for choosing the template method was because I was not limited in size to my designs, then everyone started make the template material 15" and expensive. Back to limitations. Gary you noted that your material was slicker than the Hartco which made the stones slide better. That sounds good, but does it warrant a higher price? I'm asking because I haven't tried your template material, but I would for comparison sake. Also, are there any plans in the future to offer the material in larger widths?

2. It's the software that I have a major problem with. Everything is specific to the cutter you purchase, or so it seems, unless you do some intermediate work arounds through Corel. I would like for someone to bring out a rhinestone design software that would work with a variety of cutters, just like the regular sign making software. I don't want to have to replace my software just because I want to beef up my cutter. DAS has a good software, yes I'm partial because it's what I use (not saying it's better than anything else, because I haven't used anything else, but it has it's shortcomings. Not enough single line fonts for rhinestone designing, which I gather from the forum are prevalent in some other software.

I realize the rhinestone "manual systems, i.e. templates" is sort of new and hot and everyone wants to corner the market with their own "bigger and better" product, but at some point, can we get some standard collaboration to make the software work on several different platforms, or am I in a dream world?


----------



## sjidohair

Ok, Guys, and SandyM , might know this or others of you that work with a dongle on software,,
the Eagle and Knk machines and others come with a dongle for security purposes, we can download the eagle software to other computers,, therefore working off other computers inthe shop is great, but one dongle,, I am not sure with the knk , how many times it can be downloaded or if it same,, Sandy M might know, as she has the knk, i have the eagle.
Anyway, I am afraid I am going to lose my dongle,, lol
any suggestions, on how not to loose this lil thing, i have a big ribbon tied to it, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. 
sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

sjidohair said:


> Ok, Guys, and SandyM , might know this or others of you that work with a dongle on software,,
> the Eagle and Knk machines and others come with a dongle for security purposes, we can download the eagle software to other computers,, therefore working off other computers inthe shop is great, but one dongle,, I am not sure with the knk , how many times it can be downloaded or if it same,, Sandy M might know, as she has the knk, i have the eagle.
> Anyway, I am afraid I am going to lose my dongle,, lol
> any suggestions, on how not to loose this lil thing, i have a big ribbon tied to it, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
> sandy Jo
> MMM


I am REALLY glad you brought this up! 

Since I have primarily sold to paper crafters for the past 3 years, I have seen it all regarding dongles. Actually the biggest problem we've had is people who pull it out of the USB ports SO much that it starts to come apart! So, if you need to remove it often, we recommend that users buy an inexpensive USB Adaptor, such as this one by Belkin:

Belkin : Flexible USB Cable Adapter

You keep the dongle plugged into IT, thus you're putting the strain on the adaptor when you're yanking it out, versus on the dongle itself. We call it a Dongle Protector but don't ask the sales kid in Best Buy where they have the dongle protectors in the store because he won't have a CLUE what you're talking about! 

Also, write down the number on your dongle into your little black book. In case you ever lose your Products files (license files) in the software, you can just call up Accugraphic and give them this number and they can get CADLink to regenerate the license files. It's the number ending in H. Some users, again, after handling their dongle so much, wore off the number.

As far as NOT losing it? If I'm at home and I need to remove it (seldom, but occasionally), it ALWAYS goes into the same place... my top desk drawer. If I'm on the road and need to remove it, it ALWAYS goes inside the SAME zipper location in my laptop bag. I think the key thing is to ALWAYS have these designated places where they're not out in the open and they remain the same always. 

BTW, we had a dongle humor contest once at one of my cutting groups... the participants took a commonly-known song or poem or phrase and replaced the subject with "dongle". For example, one entry was changing "You Are My Sunshine, My Only Sunshine" with "You Are My Dongle, My Only Dongle!"  If there's an appropriate place for this sort of humor on this forum, let me know and I'll upload the entries for this contest. You'll be cracking up over some of the ones that got submitted!


----------



## sjidohair

Thanks Sandy thats some great info, , do you leave yours in your usb port all the time unless travleling?
I am taking mine for design from desktop, laptop, desktop, all the time.. 
I am going to get one of the flexible usb connectors,, I will also make sure and write the code off my dongle, down,, thanks a ton
Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

sjidohair said:


> Thanks Sandy thats some great info, , do you leave yours in your usb port all the time unless travleling?
> I am taking mine for design from desktop, laptop, desktop, all the time..
> I am going to get one of the flexible usb connectors,, I will also make sure and write the code off my dongle, down,, thanks a ton
> Sandy Jo
> MMM


I rarely need to move mine (only when taking a trip) but it'll happen more often if I begin doing videos from ACS Studio versus KNK Studio because I always use my laptop for recording them. 

Anyhow, I use that Belkin adaptor and my dongle stays plugged into it all of the time. And yes, unless I'm traveling, my dongle/adaptor is plugged into a computer constantly. And it seems fine... it'll be 3 years in December since I first received it.

Some people like the adaptors with the retractable cords... that works well, too. I've had a few customers with little kids and they liked having the dongle "out of site" by using a USB adaptor with a long cord.


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## ashamutt

I have had my Magicut dongle for about 8 months now and have kept track of it just fine. 
I keep it in its box when not in use.


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## charles95405

I have mine plugged into a usb port with 4 slots..and I also have it attached to one of the name tags that hang around your neck...so even I should be able to keep up with it!


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## sjidohair

charles95405 said:


> I have mine plugged into a usb port with 4 slots..and I also have it attached to one of the name tags that hang around your neck...so even I should be able to keep up with it!


 
hahaa charles great idea,, thanks for the chuckle,, 
Sandy JO
MMM


----------



## DTFuqua

I hate dongles. I'ld rather just use it on one machine than keep up with a dongle. I even un installed the flexi starter I bought because of it needing it's dongle.


----------



## sunnydayz

I have to be honest, that is one of the things I do like about the knk software, is no dongle, and it has two installs, plus if you need more licenses you can buy them. That is what Gary should do, is make a dongleless software that will work on other cutters as well  I have the dongle for my HM1 but come on like I am going to be moving that anywhere else hehe


----------



## ashamutt

Yes..... having a dongle is a pain. 

That is one of the things that I do not like about the "magicut" software that I have!!
Its dongle.....

I would rather install completely on my laptop and my pc....period
no dongles


----------



## sjidohair

Now what is magicut?
lol, You know me i have to know everything,, but you also know I share whatever i know, good or bad, so what is it, who makes it, and what kind of cutter do you need, lol


----------



## ashamutt

sjidohair said:


> Now what is magicut?
> lol, You know me i have to know everything,, but you also know I share whatever i know, good or bad, so what is it, who makes it, and what kind of cutter do you need, lol


 
Magicut is a software program made for almost all cutters.

Contour cutting with the press of a button among lots of other things.....

It's from themagictouch


----------



## sjidohair

sunnydayz said:


> I have to be honest, that is one of the things I do like about the knk software, is no dongle, and it has two installs, plus if you need more licenses you can buy them. That is what Gary should do, is make a dongleless software that will work on other cutters as well  I have the dongle for my HM1 but come on like I am going to be moving that anywhere else hehe


I wonder if the new package that gary put together, with the full software will have the dongle? hummmmmmm
Sandy jo


----------



## BlingItOn

sunnydayz said:


> I did have one question though on the demo software, I notice that a few features are not present such as saving and importing. I am assuming this is only because its the demo right? I also noticed I could not cut and paste, but I am assuming that once your software is registered those functions will work?


I've looked on SandyM's site but I don't see a link for the demo software for the KNK MAXX. I have watched all of the tutorials but would like to play around with the software too. Can you post a link or direct me to where you found it. 

I'm so enthralled in reading all of the great posts about this new template cutter. My goal for owning my own template cutter may be here much sooner than I expected. Keep up the great questions


----------



## sunnydayz

Its right here on this page, which is where the machines are sold, but not Sandy's site directly Scrapbookdiecutter.com - Downloads, its the first pink link. I think it is nice that we can try to software, like with corel draw or adobe. Most equipment software's don't let you demo first so this is nice


----------



## SandyMcC

sjidohair said:


> I wonder if the new package that gary put together, with the full software will have the dongle? hummmmmmm
> Sandy jo


It's my understanding that all ACS software packages will come with the dongle and all KNK software packages will have the 2 computer activation.

I have to tell you that when we first released KNK Studio, it was a 1 computer activation and the customers threw a fit. So Accugraphic immediately shipped a dongle to everyone who had purchased a KNK and then switched to dongles for the next two years for all releases. Well, there was a lot of whining about the dongle... almost every new owner didn't like the idea. But THEN... when we introduced the Maxx and Groove last December, and a lot of our customers started upgrading, they were NOT happy that the dongle was gone and they could only have two activations. They got very concerned about what happens when they buy a new computer. What happens if their hard drive crashes. What about the fact they have THREE computers. What about the fact that a lot of our people with full time jobs like to install it on their work computer so they can design files during lunch. What happens if they sell their Maxx to upgrade again... does the new buyer have to pay for activation? And on and on.

So the dongle DOES have its benefits. For example, if you get a new computer for Christmas and you want to purchase a new third activation... you have to wait until Accugraphic comes back to work the first week of January to get it done. 

BUT, with activations, you don't have to worry about losing or breaking a dongle. And you dont' have to move your dongle back and forth between computers.

So, they each have their benefits, obviously.


----------



## BlingItOn

sunnydayz said:


> Its right here on this page, which is where the machines are sold, but not Sandy's site directly Scrapbookdiecutter.com - Downloads, its the first pink link. I think it is nice that we can try to software, like with corel draw or adobe. Most equipment software's don't let you demo first so this is nice



Thank you so much for the link. It's a great tool to offer a potential custom a demo of their software to try out and get familiar with before we make a purchase. I can't wait to play around with it and see if it is as easy as SandyM makes it look.


----------



## allhamps

Great question Sandy Jo. I have this same fear also. I have my DAS software loaded on my laptop so I can design whenever I'm sitting at my son's football practice, but I'm always afraid I'm going to lose it or I forget to bring it and then I'm wasting time. I kind of thought about putting it on my key ring, but then it's constantly out in the open and I'm afraid it might get damaged. Do you have to buy another copy of the software (I'm going to check with the DAS folks) to get another dongle?


----------



## dan-ann

Is it the one that says knk studio maxx- below it saying it will only work if you have purchased?


----------



## ashamutt

SandyMcC said:


> It's my understanding that all ACS software packages will come with the dongle and all KNK software packages will have the 2 computer activation.
> 
> I have to tell you that when we first released KNK Studio, it was a 1 computer activation and the customers threw a fit. So Accugraphic immediately shipped a dongle to everyone who had purchased a KNK and then switched to dongles for the next two years for all releases. Well, there was a lot of whining about the dongle... almost every new owner didn't like the idea. But THEN... when we introduced the Maxx and Groove last December, and a lot of our customers started upgrading, they were NOT happy that the dongle was gone and they could only have two activations. They got very concerned about what happens when they buy a new computer. What happens if their hard drive crashes. What about the fact they have THREE computers. What about the fact that a lot of our people with full time jobs like to install it on their work computer so they can design files during lunch. What happens if they sell their Maxx to upgrade again... does the new buyer have to pay for activation? And on and on.
> 
> So the dongle DOES have its benefits. For example, if you get a new computer for Christmas and you want to purchase a new third activation... you have to wait until Accugraphic comes back to work the first week of January to get it done.
> 
> BUT, with activations, you don't have to worry about losing or breaking a dongle. And you dont' have to move your dongle back and forth between computers.
> 
> So, they each have their benefits, obviously.


 
How about letting the customers have a choice....?

"_I would like one full install for 1 comp AND one dongle please_..." ....etc....


With my Magicut software I would have loved to have this option offered to me! J…..especially at the 500.00 price tag!


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## charles95405

You CAN buy an extra dongle for the DAS software, but you probably want to!...last I heard, it was in the $800 to $1000 range.....Needless to say they don't sell many. I am told the reason is something to do with the license agreement with the software provider...not sure of much except I don't want to buy one!


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## allhamps

Ouch. I can almost get a whole new machine and software with that.


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## charles95405

exacty...that is why I don't have any extra dongle

BTW...aside to moderators/Rodney....since this thread started about the Eagle/Falcon...maybe it would serve the readers better to break off the last few pages into a thread on the KNK and KNK Maxx ? I know they are from the same source....but.... just wondering


----------



## sjidohair

I agree,, We have found another great machine, but I believe it should have its own thread , If someone is looking for info on it, it will be buried in this thread and they might not find what they are looking for, for info, if doing research on possible using the knk machine.
Sandy jo 
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

I have gone ahead and changed the title to apply to all of the accugraphics cutting packages ,since all of this info together really is helpful when someone is looking at what system to get  This will make it a much more complete collection of information for all of their systems and what options are available


----------



## accu4321

allhamps said:


> Hi Gary and welcome aboard. I too hope you can answer some of the questions. There are a lot of things going back and forth here about the cutters and their advantages/disadvantages. Right now, I'm using a Puma III w/440g downforce. This seems fine for the Hartco that I have used to replace the more expensive "template" material I have seen offered by just about everyone else. I'd love to have an Eagle or other machine with 1500g of downforce. Don't know what I would cut with it, but I'm sure I could find something. Right now, my main questions center around the following:
> 
> 1. Why is the stencil material so expensive and the size so limiting. I switched to the Hartco for the cheaper price, but also because I could get it in 15", 20", or 25" widths. My main reason for choosing the template method was because I was not limited in size to my designs, then everyone started make the template material 15" and expensive. Back to limitations. Gary you noted that your material was slicker than the Hartco which made the stones slide better. That sounds good, but does it warrant a higher price? I'm asking because I haven't tried your template material, but I would for comparison sake. Also, are there any plans in the future to offer the material in larger widths?
> 
> 2. It's the software that I have a major problem with. Everything is specific to the cutter you purchase, or so it seems, unless you do some intermediate work arounds through Corel. I would like for someone to bring out a rhinestone design software that would work with a variety of cutters, just like the regular sign making software. I don't want to have to replace my software just because I want to beef up my cutter. DAS has a good software, yes I'm partial because it's what I use (not saying it's better than anything else, because I haven't used anything else, but it has it's shortcomings. Not enough single line fonts for rhinestone designing, which I gather from the forum are prevalent in some other software.
> 
> I realize the rhinestone "manual systems, i.e. templates" is sort of new and hot and everyone wants to corner the market with their own "bigger and better" product, but at some point, can we get some standard collaboration to make the software work on several different platforms, or am I in a dream world?


Our template material is less expensive than other template suppliers. It is different and better in our opinion . If you are using Hartco and buying full length rolls that is why the price is lower. Selling smaller amounts is typically more costly. We have a conversion line here so we do cut this down from larger rolls. As we build the line and the market demands it we will most likely add larger more economical rolls.

I can not do a fair compariison to the other Software products because we don't have them but what I can say is that in past experience working from 1 program not 2 or 3 makes for a smoother work flow. We have looked at selling the software with many other plotter drivers but that will drive the price up and because we don't sell all the other cutters we could not do a great job of support not knowing all the different products. This is a very small market in the big picture and development costs need to have a large market to keep the prices low. 
We think we were already offering the best bang for the buck . If a business can't make enough money to support itself, it is doomed.In this soft market we are already riding a fine line. 
Best Regards
Gary


----------



## DTFuqua

accu4321 said:


> We have looked at selling the software with many other plotter drivers but that will drive the price up and because we don't sell all the other cutters we could not do a great job of support not knowing all the different products. This is a very small market in the big picture and development costs need to have a large market to keep the prices low.
> We think we were already offering the best bang for the buck . If a business can't make enough money to support itself, it is doomed.In this soft market we are already riding a fine line.
> Best Regards
> Gary


Does that mean not useable on my Graphtec CE5000 cutter?


----------



## ashamutt

DTFuqua said:


> Does that mean not useable on my Graphtec CE5000 cutter?


 

I ask this question as well, Gary....... Since you do sell Graphtec , will you make the software available to Graphtec cutters???????( since you could give support to those
......


----------



## sunnydayz

Just a note that I started a new thread for the template materials, and moved those posts over there, since it was getting kind of off topic of the machines themselves. Here is a link to that thread http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t93018.html.


----------



## sjidohair

Bobbie, 
why did you move the post i made with the picture i put up showing a design i made with acs software and cut with a accugraphic machine. The Eagle?
Here is is again incase you did it by mistake, and did not mean to do it!
This design was designed in ACS software, from accugraphic, and cut on a Eagleultraforce Cutter.
I just wanted to share what these machines can do. 
Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

Oh ok I read the post and it was talking about a design you made with a template you cut, so I thought you were pointing out the template, of how nice the material made a template  Thanks for reposting, since it actually fits both threads


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## sjidohair

Thank you bobbie, 
That was not my intent,, It was to help poeple have a visual of what can be done with these machines.
Eagle, KNK, Groove and all the rest of accugraphics makes, as well as other sytems.. 
Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## martinwoods

RolandASDRick said:


> The software is based on CADLink Signlab software. Permaboss also uses this software and it is called RhinestoneWorx. The Roland R-WearStudio software is 1) easier to use, 2) has better capabilities and 3) much lower in price, $500 vs the $795 for the basic and $1595 for the Pro version of RhinestoneWorx. Although the cutter solution is slightly cheaper than the engraver solution for producing the rhinestone motif templates, the engraving method over the long haul is the better solution as the running costs (materials and blades) with the cutter solution will get you in the end. So when thinking about a rhinestone solution don't jump at the initial cost of the unit and take into account the running costs involved in the supplies and maintenance.


So why sell a product for a cutter and then tell everyone it is no good. I just can't see why Roland would sell something and then tell everyone at the shows they are no good, bu that is just me I guess.


----------



## accu4321

ashamutt said:


> I ask this question as well, Gary....... Since you do sell Graphtec , will you make the software available to Graphtec cutters???????( since you could give support to those
> ......


Graphtec uses a different motor control language than we do . So we would have to include a different driver. I will give this some thought . 
The question would be ....Is our Software worth $599 to a Graphtec owner? Also we would not be responsible for any premature wear to the Graphtec CE and Graphtec may not either. So let me know your thoughts so I can digest this .

Best Regards
Gary


----------



## Girlzndollz

SandyMcC said:


> The KNK Maxx comes with a 106 page user manual, similar to that of the Eagle.... the only differences being what is different about operating the KNK, the different blade holder, *software differences*, etc ...
> 
> Yes, I do. I have ACS Studio, as well as KNK Studio and I can teach either. Although, when I teach, I normally connect by VNC so that I can see YOUR computer and show you things.
> Sandy


SandyM, may I please ask you a question about your post? In an effort to stay on a narrower topic here, I made a new thread: KNK Studio vs. ACS Studio: What are the differences in the software? Thx. - T-Shirt Forums Thanks, alot!


----------



## sportkids

ashamutt said:


> How about letting the customers have a choice....?
> 
> "_I would like one full install for 1 comp AND one dongle please_..." ....etc....
> 
> 
> With my Magicut software I would have loved to have this option offered to me! J…..especially at the 500.00 price tag!


Let me tell you, with Flexi, you get one, and I say one only. If you lose it, the send the FBI out.  They could care less how many computers you have or what your situation is. Talk about tall cash!!


----------



## sportkids

Nothing like getting right down to"brass tacks!" I love your no fluff approach Kelly. I know Sandy M. is a great teacher by speaking w/her!


----------



## accu4321

martinwoods said:


> So why sell a product for a cutter and then tell everyone it is no good. I just can't see why Roland would sell something and then tell everyone at the shows they are no good, bu that is just me I guess.


 I also think you should consider the use of the machine. The Eagle could be used for many different products from standard sign making to metal engraving to Tackle twill cutting and on and on. The R engraver is small and has limited uses.The tooling for an Engraver is MUCH more expensive than a blade for the plotter. We sell engraving stock about $3 per sq.ft for high grade and it is more expensive than Rubber .Not to mention the rubber will be going down in price as we have higher volumes made for us.
Roland has not purchased our machine and software (that I am aware) so I think it unfair for Rick to say their product is the best. I would much rather prefer to tell about our product than make some assumptions about a competitors.I have stated previously I have not tested the competition so I could not possibly give an honest opinion.Best Regards
Gary


----------



## DTFuqua

accu4321 said:


> The question would be ....Is our Software worth $599 to a Graphtec owner? Also we would not be responsible for any premature wear to the Graphtec CE and Graphtec may not either. So let me know your thoughts so I can digest this .
> 
> Best Regards
> Gary


I haven't messed with it much but if it is equal to all the praise it gets from current users, YES. (more than likely) Now, after saying that, I have to say I probably will limit my shirt business in the future as I won't be able to do the things I wanted to do with Cathy. I will probably have to revert to driving a wrecker and rebuilding cars and trucks.


----------



## ashamutt

accu4321 said:


> Graphtec uses a different motor control language than we do . So we would have to include a different driver. I will give this some thought .
> The question would be ....Is our Software worth $599 to a Graphtec owner? Also we would not be responsible for any premature wear to the Graphtec CE and Graphtec may not either. So let me know your thoughts so I can digest this .
> 
> ......I also think you should consider the use of the machine. The Eagle could be used for many different products from standard sign making to metal engraving to Tackle twill cutting and on and on. The R engraver is small and has limited uses.The tooling for an Engraver is MUCH more expensive than a blade for the plotter. We sell engraving stock about $3 per sq.ft for high grade and it is more expensive than Rubber .Not to mention the rubber will be going down in price as we have higher volumes made for us.
> Roland has not purchased our machine and software (that I am aware) so I think it unfair for Rick to say their product is the best. I would much rather prefer to tell about our product than make some assumptions about a competitors.I have stated previously I have not tested the competition so I could not possibly give an honest opinion
> 
> Best Regards
> Gary


 
Hey Gary! J

Thanks so much for answering!! J

(Questions are marked in RED)

Since sooooooo many people own a Graphtec I think that this would be a GREAT option! 
ACS software for the Graphtec(not to mention - you sell Graphtec) J

….a 599.00 software program that would allow the current - (and future) - Graphtec owners to be able to cut rhinestone templates compared to spending another whopping 3500.00 on a totally new machine ……is…. well… …enough said. 
Money saved! J good thing!

Now, as for the 599.00 price tag…..in my opinion that is a “little bit” much. Please remember , just my opinion….please do not take offence, none is meant. J

Since the KNK studio software is 199.00 , how many more features are added on to the ACS software to warrant the 400.00 mark up? 
i.e……is it worth it?

Here is a new thread that might help people determine this…..maybe you can help here , please… J
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t93093.html#post546508

I would gladly pay 599.00 so as to be able to cut Rhinestone Templates w/ my Graphtec! J…. *IF* it is worth it. J

Otherwise, I will gladly sell my Graphtec pay 1199.00 for the KNK MAXX that comes w/ the KNK studio.
I can just as easily make rhinestone templates with that.

….here are 6 Video tutorials for creating rhinestone templates using the KNK MAXX… And 3 of these videos show how to make different “FILL” patterns! J
http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/

I am “DEMOing” the KNK Studio software right now and it is more than adequate …. I really love it for “making rhinestone designs”

Will you be offering the ACS software for DEMO???

I will get the same support from SandyMcC (Sandy McCauley) with any KNK/eagle/falcon machine that buy….and no matter where/who I purchase it from too!
Right?
 So , this will not be a problem.



I can safely say that for me (and for most of us on here who are hurting “in the wallet”–please correct me if I am wrong) it is all about saving money right now.
Most of us are hurting……. So a 1199.00 rhinestone template cutting machine sounds a lot better! J


IF I would have *known* about the KNK Maxx a year ago… I would have purchased that instead of the Graphtec.

Then, this KNK MAXX would have been listed here on the forums many many months ago as an GREAT AND AFFORDABLE option for all of us!!!! J
…..I am sure that a separate thread about the _“KNK MAXX rhinestone template cutting system – the affordable option”_ is on the horizon soon. J
So….get ready for some orders! J





About your statement “…_could be used for many different products from standard sign making to metal engraving_…….”


Engraving is a great option to be able to boast, truly! WOW! …..this is a nice option that the eagle/falcon have.
But…

“Can they engrave like “true” engravers?” would be my next question to you before deciding on whether to purchase an eagle/falcon.


I am researching “engravers”, since I do not know a lot about them.
Here is a website that lists actual engraving machines……and a “light-top desktop engraver” is 3695.00- with the Optional R-Wear Rhinestone Package. 
http://customengravingcompany.com/index.php?act=1&p=EGX30LightdutyDesktopEngraver

I spoke with Peter Delagarza(_from the company above_) over the phone and he is going to set up an appointment w/ me so I can actually see an “engraver” in action! Cool!
He is going to show me the R-wear studio software and how to cut rhinestone templates on this “EGX-30A engraver” as well.

I was told that the templates that this “EGX-30A engraver” will cut are made out of hard-rigid–thick plastic….and will outlast rubber material…not to mention less steps involved.
(i.e….no removing the sticky back of the rubber template and then adhering to a rigid board)


Can the eagle/falcon do most/all of the things that this EGX-30A Engraver can do?

Please see their sister company… to see all of the different things one can engrave.
http://www.autoplates.com

License Plates
License Plate Frames
Business Cards
Digital Frames
Engravable Leather
Luggage Tags
Ornamental & Door Plates
Pet tags
…and the list goes on….
 
And look at all of these products to engrave… too long to list.
Engrave & Customize Personal Gifts
http://www.autoplates.com/store/personally-yours-c-6663_6664_6681.html


Peter said that there is a forever market for “engraved” items unlike rhinestones which will only be around for a limited time.
(similar to what you have said?)

He also said that “cutter/plotter” machines(even with the flat bed addition) cannot do the same job as a true “Engraving machine”.
Is this true/accurate?
(He was at the ISS ORLANDO(like you) and saw all of the machines there)


So, in my opinion, people wanting this added “engraving” feature would do well to research “engravers” before purchasing ANY machine.
Which is what I am doing right now.


FOR NOW…. I do believe that the KNK MAXX w/ the KNK Studio will suit me just fine. J
(_that is , until my meeting w/ peter)……I do see my business options opening up! (thanks Peter & Gary)_




…and with the KNK MAXX I will also be able to do limited “engraving” 

Please see just one of many great videos…. From your son Chad’s youtube channel. (way to go Chad!!!) J

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAzV9rCay0

(I did not know that you were so famous sandyMcC!!! ….I hear that you have been on T.V. many times!!!) J



Here is another great VIDEO by sandyMcC about the KNK!

Titled:
*Twenty Materials You Can Cut with a Klic-N-Kut*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uMA6q7a7UI&feature=channel_page
(thanks SandyM & Chad for posting)

The above would make a GREAT thread !!!!!!!


Ok….I am off to study engravers & make my appointment with Peter! J



Note:

I do have to give a BIG thanks to SunnyDayz *(BobbieLee) for posting the info about the KNK MAXX!
(_it is not a “new” machine option…It has been out there since December 2008 – why has it taken this long(8 mo) to be added/”discovered” here on t-shirtforums as another AFFORDABLE option for Rhinestone template design & cutting???...just think….8 months of sales down the tube. __L__ )_


----------



## sportkids

Awesome post and jammed packed with good info! I like all the options available. This researching has taken all of you a good amount of time and I am sure is greatly appreciated by all. I can hardly wait to do my "homework" and look at all of the sites! I have a Graphtech, so I would be interested in the software, if it can be made as easy as the others. I wouldn't ditch my cutter. I complained from day 1 numerous times that the vinyl never fed straight. Took it to my dealer for servicing WITHOUT vinyl in it, and well AHH! Those pinch rollers weren't lined up under the blue marks, that's why it never worked from day one.
after a bit of "persuading," the nice people at Graphtec happily replaced my machine with a brand, spankin' new one that works like a charm!!!


----------



## SandyMcC

ashamutt said:


> I will get the same support from SandyMcC (Sandy McCauley) with any KNK/eagle/falcon machine that buy….and no matter where/who I purchase it from too!
> Right?
> So , this will not be a problem.


This is ABSOLUTELY not true! And I want to make it VERY clear to everyone that the only way you get MY free support package is if you purchase through me! If you purchase from either of Accugraphic's web sites and you have not been in direct communication with me prior to the sale and notified me that you plan to purchase, then you are not my customer. 

If you purchase from Roger's site or any other dealer of the KNK, Eagle, or Falcon, you are NOT my customer. You have to find out from them what support you will receive. 

Sorry if that wasn't clear earlier. It's just that I cannot possible provide free personal support on sales in which I received no commission. Does that make sense?


----------



## ashamutt

SandyMcC said:


> This is ABSOLUTELY not true! And I want to make it VERY clear to everyone that the only way you get MY free support package is if you purchase through me! If you purchase from either of Accugraphic's web sites and you have not been in direct communication with me prior to the sale and notified me that you plan to purchase, then you are not my customer.
> 
> If you purchase from Roger's site or any other dealer of the KNK, Eagle, or Falcon, you are NOT my customer. You have to find out from them what support you will receive.
> 
> Sorry if that wasn't clear earlier. It's just that I cannot possible provide free personal support on sales in which I received no commission. Does that make sense?


 
Thanks so much SandyM ....I did need clarification on this!!! 

Roger.....what support is offered by your company....and who gives it? how much is it?


----------



## sportkids

accu4321 said:


> Graphtec uses a different motor control language than we do . So we would have to include a different driver. I will give this some thought .
> The question would be ....Is our Software worth $599 to a Graphtec owner? Also we would not be responsible for any premature wear to the Graphtec CE and Graphtec may not either. So let me know your thoughts so I can digest this .
> 
> Best Regards
> Gary


I won't give up the Graphtec, but do you think the software will be as easy as the others that run with your cutters? How long does it take to develop software? The software issue is my downside, since I was "suckered" into Flexi, and bought Corel just so I could use the Stahl's easy CD. I like the visual training Sandy M. offers and am more than willing to pay for it. It would be great if I didn't have to fork out the $ for a new machine. Bet this solution could make alot of us happy. (Sure wish Stahl's Cadworx Live suported the Graphtec. That would make it easier, too!!) Appreciate the technical side of your answers.


----------



## sportkids

"No tickie, no washie!" I got it long ago. YOU SELL THE MACHINE AND YOUR TRAINING SUPPORT SERVICE!! I think it might have been a misunderstanding. But it's Loud and Clear now!


----------



## plan b

ashamutt said:


> Thanks so much SandyM ....I did need clarification on this!!!
> 
> Roger.....what support is offered by your company....and who gives it? how much is it?


Q: What support is offered?

A: Full training support provided that you have your cutter set up, software installed, you have read the manual, tried a few practise cuts and of course you would normally want to do this so you get the most out of training.

Q: Who gives training?

A: Depends on who is not busy at the time.

As`a side note this is one of Gary's requirements, support is number one in his book.
I can't talk for the other KNK dealers however Sandy, myself and Gary pretty much provides the support you need, after all thats why you purchase a machine so you can produce what you need.
We are pretty much a family so we have a tendency to all work together.


----------



## SandyMcC

We're not having an entirely new software program developed. We'll just need to pay CADLink to have a driver developed so that ACS Studio will cut to the Graphtec CE. Otherwise everything within the program should look and work the same as it does for the Eagle and Falcon.


----------



## plan b

Now, as for the 599.00 price tag…..in my opinion that is a “little bit” much. Please remember , just my opinion….please do not take offence, none is meant. J

Since the KNK studio software is 199.00 , how many more features are added on to the ACS software to warrant the 400.00 mark up?
i.e……is it worth it?



It is my understanding after talking with Gary today is that you will not be able to buy the KNK software unless you already have a KNK cutter or it will come with a new machine so that $199 price is not even a option.

So if he does indeed install a Graphtec driver in any software it will be the ACS. This is the understanding of our conversation today and I am sure he will clarify his postion if I am wrong.


----------



## sjidohair

ashamutt said:


> Roger.....what support is offered by your company....and who gives it? how much is it?


I would like to add That Rogers support Has been the best.
IF there is a new update he sends it out to all of us as soon as it is posted to him. He makes sure we have it and downloaded it and it is working.
If I need tech support I have a 1-800 number to call ACS and have a session or questions answered.
In the ACs Software there is also a Tech support Button, that puts you in touch with a Tech, and they do get right back to you,.
I have always had answers in a very short time.
GAry, Roger, Sandy Chad, all work together, for the same Company. Their Service is unquestionable.

Now Roger and Sandy,
What other Machines does Accugraphic have?
I have seen the Groove, on the site and i think another, can you tell us about those machines?
Lets get all the facts out , so everyone can purchase what is right for them.

Sandy Jo
MMM


----------



## plan b

sjidohair said:


> I would like to add That Rogers support Has been the best.
> IF there is a new update he sends it out to all of us as soon as it is posted to him. He makes sure we have it and downloaded it and it is working.
> If I need tech support I have a 1-800 number to call ACS and have a session or questions answered.
> In the ACs Software there is also a Tech support Button, that puts you in touch with a Tech, and they do get right back to you,.
> I have always had answers in a very short time.
> GAry, Roger, Sandy Chad, all work together, for the same Company. Their Service is unquestionable.
> 
> Now Roger and Sandy,
> What other Machines does Accugraphic have?
> I have seen the Groove, on the site and i think another, can you tell us about those machines?
> Lets get all the facts out , so everyone can purchase what is right for them.
> 
> Sandy Jo
> MMM


Their product line is pretty diverse and working on new stuff all of the time, some of which I will be handling, and at least a brain storming session once a week.

But they do just about any vinyl cutter from inexpensive on up, they are really big in the window tint industry along with small and large cnc routers, solvent printers and lasers.


----------



## sjidohair

Do you know when the Cam system for Rhinestones is coming out, Roger or Sandy?


----------



## SandyMcC

sjidohair said:


> GAry, Roger, Sandy Chad, all work together, for the same Company. Their Service is unquestionable.


I'm sorry to be SUCH a stickler for details, and I don't want to bore anyone with trivial information, but it's very important to me that everyone fully understands the relationships here.

Gary Youngblut and his wife, Heather, OWN Accugraphic Sales, Inc in Apopka, Florida. Their son, Chad, also works there and provides a large portion of their excellent tech support... because he has grown up in the business! I owe a great deal of my solid basic knowledge of their cutters and the software to Chad, who has spent many hours answering my questions.

Roger Brinkman, who lives in California, is an independent retailer and currently sells Accugraphic products. He doesn't "work for" Accugraphic Sales. But he's in close contact with Gary because of his dedication to the Eagle and Falcon line of cutters. He has also now added the KNK Maxx w/ ACS Software to his product line.

My situation is a little different. I live in Arizona and I have sold and supported KNK cutters since they were introduced... almost 3 years ago. Currently, I sell ACS and KNK cutters, software, and my videos on commission with Accugraphic. I do NOT sell blades, blade holders, mats, cutting materials, rhinestone supplies, or any of the other accessories, because it is my personal goal to spend my time:



Supporting my customers directly
Teaching cutting/software classes by phone/VNC
Attending retreats and conventions to teach classes and do demos
Posting free information/videos on my web site
Providing free support to any message boards and Yahoo groups in which there are customers of our products asking questions and seeking help

For the past three years, Accugraphic Sales has also hired me as an independent contractor to write user manuals for them.

I've known Gary for over 3 years and Chad for almost 3 years and we are in day-to-day contact. Up until a few weeks ago, I wasn't even aware of Roger at all. I first saw his posts here after Gary suggested to me that I expand my sales and support to include the Eagle and Falcon after having written the user manual for them. Then I figured out that Roger was one of Gary's other dealers. 

So, we're not all part of some family and we do NOT, technically, all "work for the same company." Again, I apologize to those who find this tedious and irrelevant. I'm just VERY sensitive about what gets publicly posted. I don't want any misunderstandings. I've never met Roger...I've never even spoken to him by phone. Thus, we're certainly NOT family! Roger is most definitely my competitor... but I hope we can be friendly competitors. 




sjidohair said:


> Now Roger and Sandy,
> What other Machines does Accugraphic have?
> I have seen the Groove, on the site and i think another, can you tell us about those machines?
> Lets get all the facts out , so everyone can purchase what is right for them.
> 
> Sandy Jo
> MMM


Well, I think we've thoroughly covered the differences between the Maxx and the Eagle and Falcon. The Groove-E is the only other cutter in this product line that is a current model. It has 800g of cutting force, a 13" wide cutting range, and does not come with the laser alignment light. Instead it has an alignment pin that fits into a small hole, on the blade holder seat, next to the blade holder. It is an affordable and suitable model for our scrapbooking and cardmaking customers because of the size and ability to cut the majority of the materials they need for their hobby.


----------



## accu4321

ashamutt said:


> Hey Gary! J
> 
> Thanks so much for answering!! J
> 
> (Questions are marked in RED)
> 
> Since sooooooo many people own a Graphtec I think that this would be a GREAT option!
> ACS software for the Graphtec(not to mention - you sell Graphtec) J
> 
> ….a 599.00 software program that would allow the current - (and future) - Graphtec owners to be able to cut rhinestone templates compared to spending another whopping 3500.00 on a totally new machine ……is…. well… …enough said.
> Money saved! J good thing!
> 
> Now, as for the 599.00 price tag…..in my opinion that is a “little bit” much. Please remember , just my opinion….please do not take offence, none is meant. J
> 
> Since the KNK studio software is 199.00 , how many more features are added on to the ACS software to warrant the 400.00 mark up?
> i.e……is it worth it?
> 
> Here is a new thread that might help people determine this…..maybe you can help here , please… J
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t93093.html#post546508
> 
> I would gladly pay 599.00 so as to be able to cut Rhinestone Templatesw/ my Graphtec! J…. *IF* it is worth it. J
> 
> Otherwise, I will gladly sell my Graphtec pay 1199.00 for the KNK MAXX that comes w/ the KNK studio.
> I can just as easily make rhinestone templates with that.
> 
> ….here are 6 Video tutorials for creating rhinestone templates using the KNK MAXX… And 3 of these videos show how to make different “FILL” patterns! J
> http://www.iloveknk.com/FreeVideos/
> 
> I am “DEMOing” the KNK Studio software right now and it is more than adequate …. I really love it for “making rhinestone designs”
> 
> Will you be offering the ACS software for DEMO???
> 
> I will get the same support from SandyMcC (Sandy McCauley) with any KNK/eagle/falcon machine that buy….and no matter where/who I purchase it from too!
> Right?
> So , this will not be a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I can safely say that for me (and for most of us on here who are hurting “in the wallet”–please correct me if I am wrong) it is all about saving money right now.
> Most of us are hurting……. So a 1199.00 rhinestone template cutting machine sounds a lot better! J
> 
> 
> IF I would have *known* about the KNK Maxx a year ago… I would have purchased that instead of the Graphtec.
> 
> Then, this KNK MAXX would have been listed here on the forums many many months ago as an GREAT AND AFFORDABLE option for all of us!!!! J
> …..I am sure that a separate thread about the _“KNK MAXX rhinestone template cutting system – the affordable option”_ is on the horizon soon. J
> So….get ready for some orders! J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About your statement “…_could be used for many different products from standard sign making to metal engraving_…….”
> 
> 
> Engraving is a great option to be able to boast, truly! WOW! …..this is a nice option that the eagle/falcon have.
> But…
> 
> “Can they engrave like “true” engravers?” would be my next question to you before deciding on whether to purchase an eagle/falcon.
> 
> 
> I am researching “engravers”, since I do not know a lot about them.
> Here is a website that lists actual engraving machines……and a “light-top desktop engraver” is 3695.00- with the Optional R-Wear Rhinestone Package.
> http://customengravingcompany.com/index.php?act=1&p=EGX30LightdutyDesktopEngraver
> 
> I spoke with Peter Delagarza(_from the company above_) over the phone and he is going to set up an appointment w/ me so I can actually see an “engraver” in action! Cool!
> He is going to show me the R-wear studio software and how to cut rhinestone templates on this “EGX-30A engraver” as well.
> 
> I was told that the templates that this “EGX-30A engraver” will cut are made out of hard-rigid–thick plastic….and will outlast rubber material…not to mention less steps involved.
> (i.e….no removing the sticky back of the rubber template and then adhering to a rigid board)
> 
> 
> Can the eagle/falcon do most/all of the things that this EGX-30A Engraver can do?
> 
> Please see their sister company… to see all of the different things one can engrave.
> http://www.autoplates.com
> 
> License Plates
> License Plate Frames
> Business Cards
> Digital Frames
> Engravable Leather
> Luggage Tags
> Ornamental & Door Plates
> Pet tags
> …and the list goes on….
> 
> And look at all of these products to engrave… too long to list.
> Engrave & Customize Personal Gifts
> http://www.autoplates.com/store/personally-yours-c-6663_6664_6681.html
> 
> 
> Peter said that there is a forever market for “engraved” items unlike rhinestones which will only be around for a limited time.
> (similar to what you have said?)
> 
> He also said that “cutter/plotter” machines(even with the flat bed addition) cannot do the same job as a true “Engraving machine”.
> Is this true/accurate?
> (He was at the ISS ORLANDO(like you) and saw all of the machines there)
> 
> 
> So, in my opinion, people wanting this added “engraving” feature would do well to research “engravers” before purchasing ANY machine.
> Which is what I am doing right now.
> 
> 
> FOR NOW…. I do believe that the KNK MAXX w/ the KNK Studio will suit me just fine. J
> (_that is , until my meeting w/ peter)……I do see my business options opening up! (thanks Peter & Gary)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and with the KNK MAXX I will also be able to do limited “engraving”
> 
> Please see just one of many great videos…. From your son Chad’s youtube channel. (way to go Chad!!!) J
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAzV9rCay0
> 
> (I did not know that you were so famous sandyMcC!!! ….I hear that you have been on T.V. many times!!!) J
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another great VIDEO by sandyMcC about the KNK!
> 
> Titled:
> *Twenty Materials You Can Cut with a Klic-N-Kut*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uMA6q7a7UI&feature=channel_page
> (thanks SandyM & Chad for posting)
> 
> The above would make a GREAT thread !!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Ok….I am off to study engravers & make my appointment with Peter! J
> 
> 
> 
> Note:
> 
> I do have to give a BIG thanks to SunnyDayz *(BobbieLee) for posting the info about the KNK MAXX!
> (_it is not a “new” machine option…It has been out there since December 2008 – why has it taken this long(8 mo) to be added/”discovered” here on t-shirtforums as another AFFORDABLE option for Rhinestone template design & cutting???...just think….8 months of sales down the tube. __L__ )_



Our KNK Software is only Licensed for Craft and Hobby. So that is why we only bundle and sell it to customers that currently own a Maxx.

The ACS Software does not have the same license restrictions and also has other fill routines. This would be the reasons for the difference in price.

We have not decided to make a Demo .

The Maxx & Eagles can not do all the things a spindle engraver can do ,this is for sure . We do not currently have a spindle however we can drag engrave metals with accuracy and speed similar or faster than most spindle engravers. We have a much larger platform which most spindle engravers do not. One must also look at all the other applications that we can do with the Maxx and Eagle lines. So it woud be a personal choice of what one would think is their best future direction and price they can afford.
Best Regards
Gary


----------



## plan b

SandyMcC said:


> I'm sorry to be SUCH a stickler for details, and I don't want to bore anyone with trivial information, but it's very important to me that everyone fully understands the relationships here.
> 
> Gary Youngblut and his wife, Heather, OWN Accugraphic Sales, Inc in Apopka, Florida. Their son, Chad, also works there and provides a large portion of their excellent tech support... because he has grown up in the business! I owe a great deal of my solid basic knowledge of their cutters and the software to Chad, who has spent many hours answering my questions.
> 
> Roger Brinkman, who lives in California, is an independent retailer and currently sells Accugraphic products. He doesn't "work for" Accugraphic Sales. But he's in close contact with Gary because of his dedication to the Eagle and Falcon line of cutters. He has also now added the KNK Maxx w/ ACS Software to his product line.
> 
> My situation is a little different. I live in Arizona and I have sold and supported KNK cutters since they were introduced... almost 3 years ago. Currently, I sell ACS and KNK cutters, software, and my videos on commission with Accugraphic. I do NOT sell blades, blade holders, mats, cutting materials, rhinestone supplies, or any of the other accessories, because it is my personal goal to spend my time:
> 
> 
> 
> Supporting my customers directly
> Teaching cutting/software classes by phone/VNC
> Attending retreats and conventions to teach classes and do demos
> Posting free information/videos on my web site
> Providing free support to any message boards and Yahoo groups in which there are customers of our products asking questions and seeking help
> For the past three years, Accugraphic Sales has also hired me as an independent contractor to write user manuals for them.
> 
> I've known Gary for over 3 years and Chad for almost 3 years and we are in day-to-day contact. Up until a few weeks ago, I wasn't even aware of Roger at all. I first saw his posts here after Gary suggested to me that I expand my sales and support to include the Eagle and Falcon after having written the user manual for them. Then I figured out that Roger was one of Gary's other dealers.
> 
> So, we're not all part of some family and we do NOT, technically, all "work for the same company." Again, I apologize to those who find this tedious and irrelevant. I'm just VERY sensitive about what gets publicly posted. I don't want any misunderstandings. I've never met Roger...I've never even spoken to him by phone. Thus, we're certainly NOT family! Roger is most definitely my competitor... but I hope we can be friendly competitors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I think we've thoroughly covered the differences between the Maxx and the Eagle and Falcon. The Groove-E is the only other cutter in this product line that is a current model. It has 800g of cutting force, a 13" wide cutting range, and does not come with the laser alignment light. Instead it has an alignment pin that fits into a small hole, on the blade holder seat, next to the blade holder. It is an affordable and suitable model for our scrapbooking and cardmaking customers because of the size and ability to cut the majority of the materials they need for their hobby.


Sandy I am sorry if you misunderstood my statement, I did not mean we all work for Gary or Accugraphic,,, I simply meant that we represent the ACS-KNK cutter family of products, I had no intention of any mis representation and I should have been clear on that point. So again my bad.


----------



## sjidohair

I would like to say that the support that i get for the ACS software, is

1. 1-800 number to TEch line
2. Threw my Acs Software at any time of night or day with one click online built in to my software
3. Roger at Eagleultraforce.com via phone or email.
4.Chad for visual online sessions at Accugraphics
5.My support has been with Gary, Chad and Roger.
and other Eagle and Faclon members
6. Roger at eagleultraforce.com has a forum set up for questions as well and interaction between himself, and other owners.
I have never been billed for a session to this date.
Sandy jo
MMM


----------



## accu4321

sjidohair said:


> I would like to say that the support that i get for the ACS software, is
> 
> 1. 1-800 number to TEch line
> 2. Threw my Acs Software at any time of night or day with one click online built in to my software
> 3. Roger at Eagleultraforce.com via phone or email.
> 4.Chad for visual online sessions at Accugraphics
> 5.My support has been with Gary, Chad and Roger.
> and other Eagle and Faclon members
> 6. Roger at eagleultraforce.com has a forum set up for questions as well and interaction between himself, and other owners.
> I have never been billed for a session to this date.
> Sandy jo
> MMM



Hello Sandy Jo
I just want to be clear that we classify support and training as 2 very different things. We do charge for training if one wants training outside of the manual that is included.If your machine is giving you trouble go to your dealer as first line of support and if they can not resolve the issues contact us as a second resource. If we deem a problem as a customer computer issue you would have to contact the manufacturer of the computer.
Best Regards
Gary


----------



## dan-ann

Thanks to everyone I now know which machine I will purchase and why I need that machine. I was like a deer in headlights till this topic came up here. I hate to see this great topic taking a bad twist in the road. I am confident that all the installation and support will be spelled out when I purchase my machine in October


----------



## Girlzndollz

accu4321 said:


> Our KNK Software is only Licensed for Craft and Hobby. So that is why we only bundle and sell it to customers that currently own a Maxx.
> 
> The ACS Software does not have the same license restrictions.


Hi Gary, 

Thanks for the information you've been posting. May I ask what the differences in the licenses are? Are there any commercial restrictions on either? 

Thanks, Kelly =)


----------



## ashamutt

plan b said:


> ......
> As far as Mrs. Bacons question, I don't ask for inside information on how anyone runs their business or who conducts what phases and certainly not names of those individuals. The only way that one would be privey to this information is if a purchase were made and then of course they would become a customer.


I have ALWAYS received DETAILED info for EVERY product BEFORE the purchase.....sometimes I purchase and sometimes not.....but I am ALWAYS made aware of ALL of the DETAILED info & facts..... this is GOOD & HONEST business!


----------



## Girlzndollz

Agreed, Ashamutt.  And while I also feel that SandyM is *very* forthcoming with her information, we do need to realize that not *every* business operates the same way. 

We, as posters, may be expecting the same level of forthcomingness and service from all of the suppliers, but that just isn't likely to happen. Of course, lol, having extensive experience in the workforce, I do realize each business needs to operate the way they see fit. 

That difference, though, is part of what helps *us* decide to purchase with a particular vendor or not, and sometimes, to become/stay employed with a company or not. 

Sometimes, a company's policies may not be a good fit as a customer, or an employee. Each company has a right to decide their own level of service and transparency.

As such, I think it is a good idea, instead of some alternatives being utilized at the moment, that if a particular question makes one uncomfortable, it is okay to simply state that that information is not at liberty to be discussed at the moment, or another statement of one's own choice, to decline from comment. 

Declining from comment is another perfectly acceptable answer, and sometimes, a better alternative.


----------



## Rodney

*Thread note:* in an effort to keep this thread on track sharing the helpful information that has been coming out, some posts have been moved out of this thread. 

I know we're trying to get all the facts out about the different options out there, but please, let's not get into any personal attacks or sharing of private emails. 

There's enough bling to go around for everyone  Let's try to keep things friendly and professional.​


----------



## plan b

ashamutt said:


> I have ALWAYS received DETAILED info for EVERY product BEFORE the purchase.....sometimes I purchase and sometimes not.....but I am ALWAYS made aware of ALL of the DETAILED info & facts..... this is GOOD & HONEST business!


 You have the details and facts been asked and answered, however if you think I am going to give out a persons name in a public forum, well its just not going to happen...


----------



## ashamutt

plan b said:


> You have the details and facts been asked and answered, however if you think I am going to give out a persons name in a public forum, well its just not going to happen...


...?????

All I would like to know is WHO will be giving the TECH Support for *your* machines? (that you sell on YOUR site)

you?- just you?
Gary? 
...the both of you?

or did you "_contract_" it out to "someone"....if so...who is that "someone"???????

That is a GOOD thing to know......
...and should be transparent.


----------



## Rodney

ashamutt said:


> ...?????
> 
> All I would like to know is WHO will be giving the TECH Support for *your* machines? (that you sell on YOUR site)
> 
> you?- just you?
> Gary?
> ...the both of you?
> 
> or did you "_contract_" it out to "someone"....if so...who is that "someone"???????
> 
> That is a GOOD thing to know......
> ...and should be transparent.


He has said he doesn't want to give out that information. As Kelly pointed out, it's up to each business to decide on the level of transparency that they are comfortable with and each consumer to decide which business they are comfortable with.

Hopefully we can move on from here to more great info about the machines


----------



## sunnydayz

> We have not decided to make a Demo .


I was wondering if you are able to do the virtual demo, similar to what digital art solutions does. That is how I was able to see how their softwares worked before purchasing each one. Just curious if you have this same ability. The way they did it was to have a link setup on their site, that opens the their software on your desktop, similar to pc anywhere, where they could show you the functions that are available while you are on the phone with them, and watching them on the screen. Is this a possibility maybe in the future  Thanks Gary.


----------



## bfgraphics

plan b said:


> Now, as for the 599.00 price tag…..in my opinion that is a “little bit” much. Please remember , just my opinion….please do not take offence, none is meant. J
> 
> Since the KNK studio software is 199.00 , how many more features are added on to the ACS software to warrant the 400.00 mark up?
> i.e……is it worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> It is my understanding after talking with Gary today is that you will not be able to buy the KNK software unless you already have a KNK cutter or it will come with a new machine so that $199 price is not even a option.
> 
> So if he does indeed install a Graphtec driver in any software it will be the ACS. This is the understanding of our conversation today and I am sure he will clarify his postion if I am wrong.


Any plans to release the software for cutters other than the Graphtec?
How about for the GCC Jaguar and Puma?
Thanks


----------



## lizziemaxine

sunnydayz said:


> I was wondering if you are able to do the virtual demo, similar to what digital art solutions does. That is how I was able to see how their softwares worked before purchasing each one. Just curious if you have this same ability. The way they did it was to have a link setup on their site, that opens the their software on your desktop, similar to pc anywhere, where they could show you the functions that are available while you are on the phone with them, and watching them on the screen. Is this a possibility maybe in the future  Thanks Gary.


 I would love to have a virtual demo. I find them very helpful.


----------



## SandyMcC

lizziemaxine said:


> I would love to have a virtual demo. I find them very helpful.


I will check into this... but no promises. Meanwhile, the free videos I put on my blog are exactly what I would show you in a virtual demo.


----------



## accu4321

bfgraphics said:


> Any plans to release the software for cutters other than the Graphtec?
> How about for the GCC Jaguar and Puma?
> Thanks


Hello
We do not have plans at this time. Every time we add a driver for a new machine it adds to the price of the software. So I would have to have lots of interest.
Best Regards
Gary


----------



## bfgraphics

accu4321 said:


> Hello
> We do not have plans at this time. Every time we add a driver for a new machine it adds to the price of the software. So I would have to have lots of interest.
> Best Regards
> Gary


Thanks for the response. 
I guess it's a dual-edged sword, because the more cutters are supported, the more folks would look at the software. If someone's cutter is not included, they will look elsewhere.
Best regards,


----------



## Girlzndollz

accu4321 said:


> We will be offereing this package of ACS Design Studio and a Maxx cutter in the very near future
> Best Regards
> Gary



Hi Gary,

I see there is a nice price drop on the Maxx with ACS, down to $1499. 

Rhinestone Systems | Buy-ACS.com

Is that a temporary sale, or the new sale price? Thank you for that, as this is an item of real interest, and also for the price drop on the ACS stand alone software. Same Q, is that a temporary sale, or is $399 the new price? 

Thanks alot!!! 
Best regards,
Kelly =)


----------



## DTFuqua

Well Gary?


----------



## SandyMcC

DTFuqua said:


> Well Gary?


Accugraphic is closed for the day. You won't receive a response before tomorrow morning.


----------



## charles95405

The website list the $399 price for the Graphtec cutter...does not mention the original ACS software...but that would not do one much good without a compatible cutter I guess


----------



## sunnydayz

It looks like they have a sale price on the Maxx and ACS systems as well. Those prices were lowered as well


----------



## Girlzndollz

charles95405 said:


> The website list the $399 price for the Graphtec cutter...does not mention the original ACS software...but that would not do one much good without a compatible cutter I guess





buy-acs.com website said:


> SALE!!! ACS Design Studio CE (For Graphtec Plotters)      $399.00



Charles, it says $399 for the ACS Design Studio software for the Graphtec cutters/plotters. 

There's no seperate page for the software listing... had to copy/paste the material into here.


----------



## accu4321

DTFuqua said:


> Well Gary?


I am at home and working late!
Hello
The following applies to both the system and the Software.
"At this time this is a special (sale) price until we analyze the market and competition. 
These are tough times and we need the Sales just like any other business.So please go and order if you are interested.
Best Regards
Gary


----------



## sjidohair

Just wondering if anyone has any tips, for cutting sign vinyl 12 foot long section ,off the matt,, oracle 651 to be exact,, , 
what pressure and what speed they are using so that the vinyl does not get thrown all over and have to start over.

It works great for me with the matt, but when i am doing huge banners, there must be a different setting when not using the matt for huge banners and signs. Please share speed and force for off the matt cutting.

These machines can be used for so many things, I want to use it for everything,, lol


MMM

Sandy M,, do you know if the blade holder for the eagle, has changed from the original machines,, mine does not have a lip, to show where it sits in the blade holder,, 
I can take a pic if you like,, or are the blade holders interchangable?
The Max blade holder looks awesome,, and if it would fit in the eagle i would purchase it in a heartbeat...

MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Sandy Jo, on my graphtec I used speed of 30 and force of 15 with a 45 degree blade. Not sure what the settings would be on the ACS machines though. If they are similar to the graphtec, these should work well for you. The way I would set the blade in the holder was I would always use a credit card, and measure the thickness of the blade sticking out, to the thickness of the credit card. Worked perfect every time


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sjidohair said:


> Just wondering if anyone has any tips, for cutting sign vinyl 12 foot long section ,off the matt,, oracle 651 to be exact,, , what pressure and what speed they are using so that the vinyl does not get thrown all over and have to start over. It works great for me with the matt, but when i am doing huge banners, there must be a different setting when not using the matt for huge banners and signs. Please share speed and force for off the matt cutting.


I use a force setting of 30 and a speed of 350. Also, I use the 45 degree blade... not the one used when cutting the rhinestone rubber.



sjidohair said:


> These machines can be used for so many things, I want to use it for everything,, lol Sandy M,, do you know if the blade holder for the eagle, has changed from the original machines,, mine does not have a lip, to show where it sits in the blade holder,,


 It hasn't changed. Accugraphic ships the black one with the Falcon and Eagle and the Maxx/Groove-E one with the KNK machines. Accugraphic feels that the black one provides a tighter hold on the blade and allows for better cutting of small circles. But the templates I've cut have been with the Maxx/Groove-E one and it performs great in my experience.



sjidohair said:


> I can take a pic if you like,, or are the blade holders interchangable? The Max blade holder looks awesome,, and if it would fit in the eagle i would purchase it in a heartbeat... MMM


Both blade holders fit in the currently-sold ACS and KNK machines, but the blades are not interchangeable. So, you would also need to purchase new blades to use the Maxx/Groove-E blade holder. I do like the physical size of the Maxx/Groove-E blade holder... easier to handle and mount into the machine. But you still need to watch your blade height so that the tip of the blade is a tiny bit higher than the material. I accomplish this by cutting O Rings (spacers) from chipboard and then using a specific number of them for each type of material I cut. For example, with vinyl and no mat, I don't need one. But with vinyl or paper on a mat, I need 1 spacer. With cardstock and rhinestone rubber, I need 2. With chipboard I need 2 or 3, with craft foam and stiffened felt, I need 3 or 4. See attached photo.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Thanks for the response but cutting on a matt and off are different, 
Bobbie are you cutting on a matt with yours?
With the eagle it has a different setting on and off, 

About the blade,, yep, i now how much blade to stick out,, 
but when you change blades,, I think i have the orignal blade holder , i think they are different now,, 
and this holder, has no lip to stop it in the blade holder.. so it is where you clamp it in,, 
I think they have upgraded it,, like I said
Sandy M will know, or Roger or Gary,, I am sure,
and let us know, if they have now made the blade holder with a lip,, or if infact the knk, or max will fit the Eagle,,,
My blade holder is smooth from top to bottom with no place for it to cradle in the holder,, like i said, I think this has been updated, would love to get the part number to order one that i know will fit.
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Sandy Jo, those settings are with just cutting straight from the roll vinyl with no matt.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



SandyMcC said:


> I use a force setting of 30 and a speed of 350. Also, I use the 45 degree blade... not the one used when cutting the rhinestone rubber.
> 
> It hasn't changed. Accugraphic ships the black one with the Falcon and Eagle and the Maxx/Groove-E one with the KNK machines. Accugraphic feels that the black one provides a tighter hold on the blade and allows for better cutting of small circles. But the templates I've cut have been with the Maxx/Groove-E one and it performs great in my experience.
> 
> 
> Both blade holders fit in the currently-sold ACS and KNK machines, but the blades are not interchangeable. So, you would also need to purchase new blades to use the Maxx/Groove-E blade holder. I do like the physical size of the Maxx/Groove-E blade holder... easier to handle and mount into the machine. But you still need to watch your blade height so that the tip of the blade is a tiny bit higher than the material. I accomplish this by cutting O Rings (spacers) from chipboard and then using a specific number of them for each type of material I cut. For example, with vinyl and no mat, I don't need one. But with vinyl or paper on a mat, I need one. With cardstock and rhinestone rubber, I need two. With chipboard I need 2 or 3, with craft foam and stiffened felt, I need 3 or 4. I keep detailed cutting logs so that I know what I with each particular material. See attached photo.


Sandy,, is the picture the max blade holder? love love love the lip,, 
that is not like mine,, 
that would make things so simple..
so if i go to that blade holder,, i need to order those blades to go with it, correct? 
Do my adjustments and all will be well?
Thank you
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sjidohair said:


> Sandy,, is the picture the max blade holder? love love love the lip,,
> that is not like mine,,
> that would make things so simple..
> so if i go to that blade holder,, i need to order those blades to go with it, correct?
> Do my adjustments and all will be well?
> Thank you
> MMM


Yes, that's the Maxx blade holder in the photo. And yes, you will need to order the respective 45 and 60 degree blades to work with it. Also, it loads the blades a little differently. You push in the pin at the top and hold it in while you insert the blades into the holder. You'll feel a little magnet grab hold of the blade and then you let go of the pin.

Note that Accugraphic is closed until January 4, so your order cannot be shipped before then. But their web sites are definitely up, so you can go ahead and place the order, if you like.

If you want my O Ring file, let me know. I cut them from chipboard with the Maxx and the thick materials blade.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

OK, that will help alot,, and save me alot of time, yes, i would love the o ring file, please,, 
Do you still have my email?
It seems this blade holder is more similiar to my us cutter blade holder and should load the same way it sounds using the pin.

I will try again the vinyl off the matt.. 
I have a few banners to get out today,, and have the other cutter busy doing decals, so wanted to use the eagle, for the banners,, 
Everybody wants banners for new years parties, and I like that,,
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

You can use your US Cutter blade holder, as well. That's the cool thing about the ACS and KNK machines... you can use any other blade holder or pen in the grip on the machine. Some of my paper crafting customers like to put Sharpies or gel pens right into the blade holder seat and do lettering that way.

Yes, I still have your email... I'll send the file to you in a few minutes.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Are you kidding me,, I can use a us cutter blade holder,, ?
I have a ton of those,, 
I had no idea,, 
I think we are going to learn alot of what we can do with the Acs and cutters in this Thread,, 
Thank you for sharing
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I've never personally tested a US Cutter blade holder, but you can see how much freedom you have to insert whatever you want into that grip. Give it a test and see how it works.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I am measuring right now, the 2 holders,, length,, they look very similiar,, 
I will let you know how it goes,
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sjidohair said:


> Sandy M,, do you know if the blade holder for the eagle, has changed from the original machines,, mine does not have a lip, to show where it sits in the blade holder,,
> I can take a pic if you like,, or are the blade holders interchangable?
> The Max blade holder looks awesome,, and if it would fit in the eagle i would purchase it in a heartbeat...
> 
> MMM


Sandy Jo, isnt the reason why Roger had said the Eagle and the Falcon were so much more expensive, was that the blade holder was so much better on them then the KNK Maxx? Or maybe I am wrong, but I will have to go look back in that thread to find out. I guess I am wondering if the Eagle blade holder is so much better, why you would want to put a lesser blade holder on your machine? I am going to go back and read that thread again about the blade holders again.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sunnydayz said:


> Sandy Jo, isnt the reason why Roger had said the Eagle and the Falcon were so much more expensive, was that the blade holder was so much better on them then the KNK Maxx? Or maybe I am wrong, but I will have to go look back in that thread to find out. I guess I am wondering if the Eagle blade holder is so much better, why you would want to put a lesser blade holder on your machine? I am going to go back and read that thread again about the blade holders again.


Bobbie, I am not sure on the blade,, but I think the carriage is built different and operates different than some other brands,, 
I did not get time to cut today with the uscutter blade,, holder in the eagle,, but I will try to find some time tomorrow,, 
Sandy Mc said it should work,, I am hoping it does..
I will make sure and post when i know how it works, it might take some work with the o rings,, too.
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Yea that will be interesting, the reason I am asking is that I will be buying a machine soon and want to get the best value for my money haha. I am heading over to read what it said about them.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I will let you know,, 
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I have a question for Sandy M, Sandy do you know if accugraphics will be at the long beach show in January? That would be really cool to see the machines there if they will be there.


----------



## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> I have a question for Sandy M, Sandy do you know if accugraphics will be at the long beach show in January? That would be really cool to see the machines there if they will be there.


I don't think they will be there.



sunnydayz said:


> Sandy Jo, isnt the reason why Roger had said the Eagle and the Falcon were so much more expensive, was that the blade holder was so much better on them then the KNK Maxx? Or maybe I am wrong, but I will have to go look back in that thread to find out. I guess I am wondering if the Eagle blade holder is so much better, why you would want to put a lesser blade holder on your machine? I am going to go back and read that thread again about the blade holders again.


On the Eagle and Falcon, the blade holder seat on the machine is positioned slightly closer to the pinch wheels and that, coupled with the thinner black blade holder shipped with the Eagle and Falcon, you end up with the tip of the blade set further back and, apparently this results in more perfect circles. Since I only use the Maxx, I've not tested this directly myself. I can only say that I'm able to cut circles in the black rhinestone rubber on the Maxx and not have any problems getting the rhinestones to fall into the holes.


----------



## DTFuqua

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sunnydayz said:


> Yea that will be interesting, the reason I am asking is that I will be buying a machine soon and want to get the best value for my money haha..


 Get a Graphtec


----------



## Mistyann

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

BobbieLee,
I think I've narrowed my search to the same 2 you're looking at. (the falcon anf the KNK Maxx) Let me know what you decide....I'm torn!


----------



## charles95405

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I have not used either...but it seems to me that the KNK Maxx w/ACS is a better value...takes same size vinyl and is a bit cheaper isn't it? I don't know the durability of the Maxx but all things equal would not the Maxx be a better buy...unless you forsee huge use...then I might look at the Eagle


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I myself was looking at the Maxx with ACS, I cannot see enough differences in the higher priced machine to justify the added expense. Since the only real main difference is the way the blade is held, and the maxx has the same motor and all, it would seem the better value to me.


----------



## Mistyann

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Okay, thanks! I don't see myself doing 10 or 15 aday or anything....so I was kind of thinking the same thing. However, I tend to be wishy washy and keep going backand forth LOL.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I have not had my hands on the max, or the knk, only the eagle, 
If I can answer any questions about the Eagle, please ask,,
It is nice that we have some members here with the falcon, knk,& eagle, to answer the questions directed at the machines as well as the software.
MMM


----------



## Mistyann

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Thanks Sandy Jo!
The Falcon is the same as the Eagle...just smaller, right?


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Mistyann, if you read this thread here http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t78625-14.html#post541334, I believe starting at around page 14, you can see a comparison of the different machines Accugraphics sells. Its a very long read but I think you will learn alot of info from it  All of the info in that thread is what has narrowed down what I am looking at.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



Mistyann said:


> Thanks Sandy Jo!
> The Falcon is the same as the Eagle...just smaller, right?


Yes the Eagle is I think one of the larger units,, I think there is one larger,, maybe 2.
But with the larger unit, it also brings the larger price tag.
The eagle is a 24 inch machine, so I can put big rolls of template material in,( 20 inch)
for larger designs,

MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Mistyann, the Eagle is the same machine as the Maxx 24" , the eagle having the blade modifications on it, but the same model machine, just a few mods. Here is a link that shows both machines, and you can see the eagle is built off the same machine as the maxx Rhinestone Systems | Buy-ACS.com. For me this will probably be my choice, the maxx, as I cannot see paying $2000 for a few modifications


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

There is one more difference: the Eagle and Falcon come with a $700 bonus package which includes the black rhinestone rubber, transfer tape, rhinestones and some other goodies. I can't recall the exact list of items, but I can get more details when Accugraphic reopens, if you're interested in that.


----------



## sjidohair

Also Repostion spray for our mats.

How many grit rollers does the max have , i cant remember!

MMM

The eagle is also dongled

I still get worried, i am gonna lose that thing,, 
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sjidohair said:


> Also Repostion spray for our mats.
> 
> How many grit rollers does the max have , i cant remember!
> 
> MMM


Both the 15" Maxx, 24" Maxx, and 15" Falcon have 3 pinch wheels; the Eagle has 4.


----------



## charles95405

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Mistyann...there is probably only one thing that will pop up....no matter which machine you choose...you will at some point wish for the other...doesn't matter whether it is larger or smaller, cheaper or more expensive...that is just people. I am living proof of that...bought one system...pretty pricey..then changed my cutter...then changed my software..then upgraded my cutter...Just doing my part to help stimulate the economy!

But jump in...it can be fun AND profitable...just don't think the world will instantly line up.. You will have to develop your market...If I can at my age...anyone can


----------



## sjidohair

charles95405 said:


> Mistyann...there is probably only one thing that will pop up....no matter which machine you choose...you will at some point wish for the other...doesn't matter whether it is larger or smaller, cheaper or more expensive...that is just people. I am living proof of that...bought one system...pretty pricey..then changed my cutter...then changed my software..then upgraded my cutter...Just doing my part to help stimulate the economy!
> 
> But jump in...it can be fun AND profitable...just don't think the world will instantly line up.. You will have to develop your market...If I can at my age...anyone can


 
Charles you are so right,, 
That is why i have 3 or more systems,, Being a adult and choosing my toys is fun,,,,, 
MMM



SandyMcC said:


> Both the 15" Maxx, 24" Maxx, and 15" Falcon have 3 pinch wheels; the Eagle has 4.


The eagle has 5 Grit rollers,, and like Sandy Mc says it has 4 pinch rollers,
MMM

Whatever system bobbie and Misty choose, it will be a ton of fun and we will be here to help.
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sjidohair said:


> The eagle has 5 Grit rollers,, and like Sandy Mc says it has 4 pinch rollers,
> MMM


Oh yeah... I spaced out there for a bit!  

The Eagle and 24" Maxx both have 5 grit rollers and the 15" Maxx and Falcon have 4. It seems like the Eagle has wider ones, as well. What's the width of one of your grit rollers? They are 1" wide on the Maxx... not sure about the Falcon... it may be like the Eagle.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

I want a cams also,, it is in my future as well,, 
good we can learn that together as well,, 


Grit rollers on eagle are 
3 - 3 inch
2- 1 inch

MMM


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*

Ok I put the us cutter blade holder in the eagle carriage, 
It cut, but,, needs some adjustment , which is what i am trying to get away from, so i think i will just purchase the max holder, with the lip, so i can plunk it in and go,,,, 

I think the only issues i have had with the eagle are overcoming the cutting on the matt thing, 
all the applications cut fabulous on the matt,, 
when i take the matt off, is where we need adjustments on force .
we should start posting some of those, for the newer cutters,, 
I have found that vinyl without the matt,, 
cuts well at 150 force and 70 speed,, 
this is not speciality vinyl,, 
This is reg vinyl,, 
MMM


----------



## SandyMcC

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



sjidohair said:


> Ok I put the us cutter blade holder in the eagle carriage,
> It cut, but,, needs some adjustment , which is what i am trying to get away from, so i think i will just purchase the max holder, with the lip, so i can plunk it in and go,,,,
> 
> I think the only issues i have had with the eagle are overcoming the cutting on the matt thing,
> all the applications cut fabulous on the matt,,
> when i take the matt off, is where we need adjustments on force .
> we should start posting some of those, for the newer cutters,,
> I have found that vinyl without the matt,,
> cuts well at 150 force and 70 speed,,
> this is not speciality vinyl,,
> This is reg vinyl,,
> MMM


I think you mean the other way around, the v (velocity/speed) is 150 and the f (force) is 70. But that's a much higher force that I would use with regular vinyl. I would cut it at a setting of 30 with or without the mat. I would have the blade holder sitting lower in the blade holder seat on the machine if the mat isn't being used because the vinyl would be sitting lower.


----------



## sjidohair

*Re: Rhinestone Software ACS and This is What It can Do!*



SandyMcC said:


> I think you mean the other way around, the v (velocity/speed) is 150 and the f (force) is 70. But that's a much higher force that I would use with regular vinyl. I would cut it at a setting of 30 with or without the mat. I would have the blade holder sitting lower in the blade holder seat on the machine if the mat isn't being used because the vinyl would be sitting lower.


I will try these settings, 
MMM


----------



## sunnydayz

I wonder if Gary can give confirmation on something that was passed along to me in email regarding distributors of the eagle, falcon and maxx cutters. Is it true that only ACS, scrapbookdiecutter.com and SandyM at iloveknk.com are the US based distributors of these systems now, that come with the ACS software, and that Roger is no longer selling these systems? It would be great if this info could be verified so those interested in these systems contact the correct persons for purchase. So could Gary or Sandy M at confirm this to true or now for me and others looking at these systems? 

Thanks so much for helping to keep the info up to date


----------



## SandyMcC

sunnydayz said:


> I wonder if Gary can give confirmation on something that was passed along to me in email regarding distributors of the eagle, falcon and maxx cutters. Is it true that only ACS, scrapbookdiecutter.com and SandyM at iloveknk.com are the US based distributors of these systems now, that come with the ACS software, and that eagleultraforce.com is no longer selling these systems? It would be great if this info could be verified so those interested in these systems contact the correct persons for purchase. So could Gary or Sandy M at confirm this to true or now for me and others looking at these systems?
> 
> Thanks so much for helping to keep the info up to date


That is correct... Roger is no longer a dealer of the ACS or KNK Maxx systems. 

Also, www.buy-acs.com is now re-directed to Klic-N-Kut.com - Computerized Cutting systems and supplies which is owned by Accugraphic. 

I am currently taking a break from selling machines so that I can catch up on a long list of projects on my To Do list.  I plan to resume selling in the fall. Please note that I am continuing to provide full support for my existing customers during this time.


----------



## charles95405

That is odd....if Roger is no longer selling ACS equipment (website is still active) and Sandy Mc is no longer selling the machines - does that mean you can only buy ACS systems direct? I did notice on the new site referenced by Sandy Mc that the Eagle and Falcon are not listed. Wonder if those models have been dropped in favor of the KNK system???

On a brighter note for BobbieLee...did you get your DTG sold? and how are you doing with FuntimePro? As you know I have used WinPCSign 2010 but have not used Funtime Pro. Curious as to what drivers are included with FuntimePro

You will have to post some pics once you are up and running.


----------



## SandyMcC

charles95405 said:


> That is odd....if Roger is no longer selling ACS equipment (website is still active) and Sandy Mc is no longer selling the machines - does that mean you can only buy ACS systems direct? I did notice on the new site referenced by Sandy Mc that the Eagle and Falcon are not listed. Wonder if those models have been dropped in favor of the KNK system???
> 
> On a brighter note for BobbieLee...did you get your DTG sold? and how are you doing with FuntimePro? As you know I have used WinPCSign 2010 but have not used Funtime Pro. Curious as to what drivers are included with FuntimePro
> 
> You will have to post some pics once you are up and running.


The Eagle is sold at Accugraphic's site. You need to click on Rhinestone Systems on the home page. Here's a more direct link to the machines:

Rhinestone Systems


----------



## sunnydayz

charles95405 said:


> On a brighter note for BobbieLee...did you get your DTG sold? and how are you doing with FuntimePro? As you know I have used WinPCSign 2010 but have not used Funtime Pro. Curious as to what drivers are included with FuntimePro
> 
> You will have to post some pics once you are up and running.


I think I have my machine sold, I spent around 5 hours yesterday with another member here showing him my machine and teaching him all my tricks, I need to contact my leasing company today to get all the details of what I need to do now  So hopefully with in a week or so I can look at getting a cutter. In between all the other stuff I have going on right now, I have been playing with the funtime a little. Been a bit busy right now but will be sure to post more once I have more time


----------



## charles95405

I called Accugraphics to see who is selling what...and 'Chad' told me that Roger is no longer a dealer of their machines as they were also selling a competing brand!....If you want an Eagle/Falcom you have to go to them direct. Guess they cannot stand any competition from other cutters.. I thought the Eagle was a professional grade cuttter...now I wonder! 

BobbieLee since you are soon to be knee deep in rhinestones, you will have to post some pics!


----------



## sunnydayz

charles95405 said:


> I called Accugraphics to see who is selling what...and 'Chad' told me that Roger is no longer a dealer of their machines as they were also selling a competing brand!....If you want an Eagle/Falcon you have to go to them direct. Guess they cannot stand any competition from other cutters.. I thought the Eagle was a professional grade cutter...now I wonder!
> 
> BobbieLee since you are soon to be knee deep in rhinestones, you will have to post some pics!


I definitely will Charles  You can bet on it LOL. You know how I am once I get my hands on something, I go to town, and will post lots of pics of what I do. It is just really going to make things much easier on my physically due to my botched spinal cord surgery to be able to do something that is much more simple then the whole upkeep on my dtg. I really really love my dtg machine and wish I could justify keeping it, but the whole process is just more work than I can handle at this point, and much more expensive if I am not using it and wasting ink  So Yea this is going to be much fun for me as well as making some cash.

As far as the Eagle falcon and maxx cutters, well its obvious that there are many happy owners, in fact Roger and Sandy Jo have boasted about it for the last year or so, and I am sure if it was not such a good machine they would have voiced that opinion by now for sure  I don't know if the reason they stopped allowing the sales was due to competing machines, or maybe just not being represented properly for the distributor, due to customer service or other things. Who knows, it could have been many factors involved to make any decision on why, but I myself do plan on buying the cheaper version, the maxx as to me the differences do not and have never justified the almost $2000 difference the Eagle and Falcon were being sold for, plus the customer service I have seen from the distributor I am purchasing from has been really great from what I have seen on this forum. To me Customer service is #1 after the machine itself. 

I will definitely let anyone and everyone know what my opinions are of the maxx once I get my hands on it  I have seen enough good feedback on the machines though to say I am confident on making a purchase of it. Just have to close out this whole dtg thing first, which might take a couple weeks due to closing out the lease and such.

Oh one other reason I am also choosing the maxx other then the great specs, is that it will work with my funtime as well  So I will have two softwares I can choose to use.


----------



## ashamutt

sunnydayz said:


> ....
> Oh one other reason I am also choosing the maxx other then the great specs, is that it will work with my funtime as well  So I will have two softwares I can choose to use.


I purchased the KNK Groove-E cutter package for 599.99!
Awesome cutter and software. 
Awesome Rhinestone Package altogether, especially for the price!

I get SUPERB Tech-Support from Sandy McCauley too. 

(and...my new Funtime 2010 rhinestone software works with my Groove-E cutter as well as with my Graphtec CE5000-60) ...so I am a happy camper!


----------



## SandyMcC

charles95405 said:


> Guess they cannot stand any competition from other cutters.. I thought the Eagle was a professional grade cuttter...now I wonder!


That's ridiculous. Two of their main dealers are Skat Katz and Paper Threads and both carry other brands of cutters. That might have been a "business correct" response to your inquiry or you misunderstood what Chad said. Personally, I'm guessing they were unhappy with the lack of customer support that Roger provided... along with the fact that Roger had decided to "rebrand" the Maxx by giving it a new name... The Mighty... which is NOT an acceptable thing to do.


----------



## charles95405

Sandy Mc....are you now a spokesperson for ACS? How can you be 'sure' of your statements.How can someone not present during a conversation label any part of the conversation 'ridiculous'. My conversation was about the Eagle and the Falcon. Chad did not mention the other dealers...and do they sell the Eagle and Falcon? And you will note that I did not mention any name but Chad. Do you perhaps some personal vendetta here? I was merely relating a conversation I had to clear up question posed by Sunnydayz. Chad was very clear that Roger was dropped because of selling other cutters/software. I was not putting down any person/cutter or action. I was only getting information as I have a couple of good friends with an Eagle (no not a dealer) and was curious as to their status after Sunnydayz posted her question. I had not heard of the withdrawal of any distributor authorization. As a side note...doesn't re-branding involve putting a label/sticker or other identifying mark on a particular item?

In the past I have said that you wrote what I consider to be the best user's manual for a software product that I have seen...and I have been involved with computers on a professional level since 1983. And you do good...no great.. instructional videos. But lately.....................


----------



## SandyMcC

charles95405 said:


> Sandy Mc....are you now a spokesperson for ACS? How can you be 'sure' of your statements.





charles95405 said:


> In the past I have said that you wrote what I consider to be the best user's manual for a software product that I have seen...and I have been involved with computers on a professional level since 1983. And you do good...no great.. instructional videos. But lately.....................


I am most definitely NOT a spokesperson for Accugraphic. I am an independent retailer. But I have been witness to the things I mentioned. It broke my heart when one of Roger's customers contacted me last fall, extremely frustrated and in tears, because she had bought an Eagle from him and he wouldn't help her with the basic operating questions, which IS expected from dealers of these machines. When something like this happens, I tend to hop on my white horse, draw my sword and go after the dragon. 

And this isn't something recent at all. I actually started my dragon-slaying BEFORE I even owned my first cutter... in 2005,I went after Xyron for "messing with" a friend of mine who had bought a Wishblade from them. I then started the Cutter Venting Yahoo group for owners of Wishblades and other hobby cutters who needing to vent their anger and frustration and weren't permitted to do so at other message boards. 

So, Charles, I do more than just write user manuals and make videos. But I do thank you for the positive review of my work.

Chad will address your erroneous post himself.


----------



## [email protected]

charles95405 said:


> I called Accugraphics to see who is selling what...and 'Chad' told me that Roger is no longer a dealer of their machines as they were also selling a competing brand!....If you want an Eagle/Falcom you have to go to them direct. Guess they cannot stand any competition from other cutters.. I thought the Eagle was a professional grade cuttter...now I wonder!
> 
> BobbieLee since you are soon to be knee deep in rhinestones, you will have to post some pics!



Hi Charles,

I feel there may have been a bit of a misunderstanding here. Firstly, I didn't delve into any details regarding Roger. This is a personal business matter and is not something that, I feel, needs to be shared with anyone other than the parties involved. Sorry if I wasn't clear or misleading in any way. I should note that never did I say it was due to Roger selling a competing product.

As for our cutter -- There are many great systems available out there. We have provided a high-end, professional model backed by great software and great support. We rely on our repeat business, so we recognize the need to provide professional products and professional support. I don't mean to post this as an advertisement, but as a clarification to the quote above. I'll understand if this needs to be moderated, (if this does not fall within the forum guidelines ).

- Chad


----------



## charles95405

'nuff' said...We all have had our say... We have beat this horse to death. let's move on to positive things and get this thread back to topic at hand..the software and cutters...not the personalities.


----------



## sunnydayz

charles95405 said:


> 'nuff' said...We all have had our say... We have beat this horse to death. let's move on to positive things and get this thread back to topic at hand..the software and cutters...not the personalities.


This information is important for those looking at this machine, and getting accurate information, please remember that there will always be new people reading and will not always have the info we have due to being new to the forums. So it is important to get updated accurate information if a new vendor becomes available, or an old one is no longer selling a product. All opinions and information is valuable from each poster.

I also want to say thanks to Chad for clearing up his side of things. That is what is great about this forum, is that both sides of situations are able to post their side of things and keep things straight.

Having said this, it is important to keep things professional as this is business forum.


----------



## sunnydayz

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have removed the links to Rogers eagle website, due to the derogatory comments made against who is now his competitor on those links. It is clear there were issues between Accugraphics and Roger that resulted in his no longer selling these products, what ever those issues were is irrelevant. The forums are not a place to link to a site where derogatory remarks are made by a competitor, since Roger is now selling a new competing product. His site as far as the eagle or falcon are concerned are no longer relevant to this thread, as he is no longer a distributor, but instead a competitor of a new product.

The relevant links to buy the machines and software from Accugraphics and get support are :

Klic-N-Kut.com - Computerized Cutting systems and supplies which is owned by Accugraphic. 

Klic-N-Kut

Digital Die Cutting With Sandy McCauley (although Sandy M is taking a break right now, her site has much helpful information such as videos and tutorials, and she is great for support, and will again be selling once she catches up on things  )


----------



## sportkids

Been away for a while, and sounds like alot of mud slinging going on. Here is some food for thought for all of you who may be interested in purchasing rhinestone software. Been through computer hell here. Hard drive crashed, and you already can guess the rest of the story. If you want quality and more importantly, real SUPPORT, and can't pay a fortune, then call Sandy M. She was extremely helpful in reinstalling the ACS software for our Graphtec cutter, and making sure everything is running smoothly. She is so comitted, and did all of this in between her son graduating college. She helped trouble shoot a major problem with Flexi, and they were right on target. If this is her version of "taking a break," need I say more? The service and support you receive AFTER THE SALE IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT. SHE REALLY DOES WANT YOU TO SUCEED, AND BELIEVES IN THE PRODUCTS SHE SELLS! I would highly recommend her products and SERVICES to anyone looking for a rhinestone system! I can assure you that you will not be disappointed! Can't thank her enough!! If it weren't for this forum, I would have never learned about ACS products and Sandy M.'s awesome services and support. Give her a call and an opportunity to help you. I am confident you wil be writing the next positive comments and testimonials on her!


----------



## Leg cramps

thanks for the post! I just started out looking into the rhinestone business and found this thread very helpfull!


----------



## bfgraphics

I think it is "*Buyer Beware" *with both of these comapanies until proven otherwise.

I tried to simply buy supplies from Accugraphics last year and twice had a terrible experience. I was seriously considering the Eagle machine, after a long conversation with Roger on the phone, but wanted to try stone stencils with a borrowed Jaguar. Well, twice I ordered and twice, after the order was accepted via the web page, someone from a third company contacted me. First was a request that I change my credit card address. Same card I used for hundreds of business transactions yearly. It was confusing because there were about three different company names involved with Accugraphics. I had so much backup documentation to provide to Accugraphics and actually even could have gone to their location when I was in Florida last year, but they burned me on the order with some lame "policy" that was never stated on their original web page. The second time I ordered I used Paypal(at their suggestion), and their Paypal account was not setup properly.
I tried to get the issue resolved, but they were absolutly no help. I can understand being cautious, but I have been in an established location for over 10 years- same address and same credit cards and they treated ME like I was a con artist- when THEY are using three different names on their contact information. They had absolutley horrrible customer service. 

I then contacted Roger, but he was no help. He told me to order from HIS web page, but his shipping charges were outrageous.

I then went to a trade show, found a reputable dealer and had a GCC Jaguar within a few days. BTW, I order supplies every few weeks from them with the same credit card Accugraphics refused.

As to the Eagle machines, I tried to find out if they were made by Foison, the purpose of the pendant mounted control, why not servo motors (I think Roger said stepper motors) and I just decided there were too many unknowns to take the chance. I decided on a known brand with a reputable dealer. Burned twice- won't happen again.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob





charles95405 said:


> I called Accugraphics to see who is selling what...and 'Chad' told me that Roger is no longer a dealer of their machines as they were also selling a competing brand!....If you want an Eagle/Falcom you have to go to them direct. Guess they cannot stand any competition from other cutters.. I thought the Eagle was a professional grade cuttter...now I wonder!
> 
> BobbieLee since you are soon to be knee deep in rhinestones, you will have to post some pics!


----------



## SandyMcC

bfgraphics said:


> I think it is "*Buyer Beware" *with both of these comapanies until proven otherwise.
> 
> I tried to simply buy supplies from Accugraphics last year and twice had a terrible experience.
> 
> I was seriously considering the Eagle machine, after a long conversation with Roger on the phone, but wanted to try stone stencils with a borrowed Jaguar. Well, twice I ordered and twice, after the order was accepted via the web page, someone from a third company contacted me. First was a request that I change my credit card address. Same card I used for hundreds of business transactions yearly. It was confusing because there were about three different company names involved with Accugraphics. I had so much backup documentation to provide to Accugraphics and actually even could have gone to their location when I was in Florida last year, but they burned me on the order with some lame "policy" that was never stated on their original web page. The second time I ordered I used Paypal(at their suggestion), and their Paypal account was not setup properly.
> I tried to get the issue resolved, but they were absolutly no help. I can understand being cautious, but I have been in an established location for over 10 years- same address and same credit cards and they treated ME like I was a con artist- when THEY are using three different names on their contact information. They had absolutley horrrible customer service.
> 
> I then contacted Roger, but he was no help. He told me to order from HIS web page, but his shipping charges were outrageous.
> 
> I then went to a trade show, found a reputable dealer and had a GCC Jaguar within a few days. BTW, I order supplies every few weeks from them with the same credit card Accugraphics refused.
> 
> As to the Eagle machines, I tried to find out if they were made by Foison, the purpose of the pendant mounted control, why not servo motors (I think Roger said stepper motors) and I just decided there were too many unknowns to take the chance. I decided on a known brand with a reputable dealer. Burned twice- won't happen again.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Bob


First of all, I am SO sorry you had a terrible experience with Accugraphic Sales. I remember when this happened and I attempted to explain then about their shipping policy and I will again explain it here. Before I start, note that I am NOT an employee of Accugraphic. I do contract work for them and sell on commission. They are located in Florida... I live in Arizona. I have been working with them (but not FOR them) for over 4 years.

Several years ago, Accugraphic was ripped off for ~$14,000 in equipment by someone using a stolen credit card account. After that, all new customers have been required to have items shipped to an address on their credit card account. Note that it only takes a phone call to your credit card company to add another address as an ALTERNATIVE address... it's not necessary to CHANGE the billing address on your account... just add a second address, which is proof that you have full access to that credit card account.

Now, I realize that the far majority of other companies selling on the Internet do not practice this and I'm guessing they've also not suffered $14,000 losses. I TOTALLY agree with those of you who posted that there must be other ways to protect yourself, as a business, from scams such as this. However, when I spoke with the owner of Accugraphic about this, I was told that their cc authorization service told them to institute this policy as the only safe way to protect themselves. Now, if you some of you have alternate methods to ensure that you do not get scammed (as suggested in the earlier thread about this), then PLEASE explain the method in detail. Telling me that there are "other ways" does not provide me anything I can use to convince Accugraphic that they should change their policy.

Note that once a customer has purchased a cutter (or another substantially large order) from them, then they will gladly ship future orders to an alternate shipping address. They just want to make sure that the first order/customer is legitimate.

Regarding different names: Accugraphic Sales, Inc is the company name and they have been in business for over 20 years... over 25, I believe. They do set up different web site domains to target different markets. For example, they created their scrapbookdiecutter web site to target paper crafters such as scrapbookers and card makers for their Klic-N-Kut line of machines. Then, when they came out with the Eagle and Falcon, which were higher force and more expensive systems, they set up buy-acs for selling those machines for business applications. In February of this year, Go Daddy had a server crash and Accugraphic lost all of their sites, due to a serious misunderstanding about "backing up" being included in the price they were paying for server rental. (Note to anyone out there using Go Daddy for your web site: do not assume you are receiving automatic back up of your web site!). So, after the crash, they decided it would be far easier to combine those two sites and they did that. They now promote the name knkusa.com which forwards to scrapbookdiecutter. There is no more buy-acs. But note that it is quite common for companies to set up multiple domain names to appeal to a wider range of customers.

Accugraphic Sales is the Foison distributor for the United States now. The Klic-N-Kuts, Eagle, and Falcon are made at a Foison plant in China and then they add Klic-N-Kut Studio or ACS Design Studio to the package along with the bolt-on support tables, cutting blades and blade holder, and other accessories.

Regarding reputation, there have been numerous posts here supporting their systems and customer service. Again, I regret that you had a bad experience. If you had originally worked through me instead of Roger, things would have turned out far differently.


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## dan-ann

I have to say I have had very good service from them when i ordered my cutter and then when I ordered supplies. Even when the website was down I just called and they took the order and sent it out right away


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## sjidohair

I too agree my service with accugraphics has always been a positive one, with Gary, and chad and Heather from Accugraphics. These were always the poeple that I contacted there.

Sandy jo


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## bfgraphics

SandyMcC said:


> First of all, I am SO sorry you had a terrible experience with Accugraphic Sales.
> "clip"
> ......... Again, I regret that you had a bad experience. If you had originally worked through me instead of Roger, things would have turned out far differently.


Sandy,

Actually it was not Roger at all who played the games with my order, but some lady whose name I cannot remember- maybe "Cruella", I am not sure.

Roger just gave me wrong info. I was certain the Eagle looked a lot like the Foison line, but he denied it. There were other issues with his information that made me a bit suspicious and since these machines seemed so new to the market I just wanted more technical info that was hard to come by.

I am not going to beat a dead horse as I am extremely happy with the choice that I made, but just to make it clear that I did try to resolve the issue,.....
My problem with the customer service was the fact that Accugraphics then proceeded to screw me the second time when I used the Paypal account that was on their web page- per THEIR instructions. I have had the same Paypal account since Paypal was established and they still played games. My emails went unreturned when their Paypal interface messed up. 
I can understand being a bit cautious after being burned, we have all been burned at one time or another. It was the was total lack of any attempt to help me fulfill my order that made me become suspicious of them. MY concern was if customer service was so bad with a small order for template material, how would it be if I needed machine parts?

As to requiriing a shipping address to be added to the credit card account... So if all businesses operated this way. I would have to add all my customers' addresses to my credit card if I drop shipped to them from MY vendors?
I would have to add all my family and friends' addresses to my credit card when I sent them Flowers? Every time I used a "gift" option to ship to another address I would have to add all those addresses? See how ridiculous this can get?

I honestly tried to make it work out as at the time I really thought this was the machine fo rme. 

First impressions are lasting.

I am certain you are a much better ambassador for this company than the person I dealt with.

Regards and thanks for the reply.

Bob


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## NeoCop

I want to start doing rhinestone clothing. I already purchased a Roland gx-500 cutter.
What software will work the best with it?
Not looking to break the bank, just want some software that is easy and reliable.
Thank you.


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## sjidohair

There are alot of programs out there right now, they are all good, they all work and do work differntly.
Punch in Rhinestones software here on the forum and start keeping notes of what you have heard poeple say they like or dislike about each one, 
figure out what is important to you,, 
We will help you as your questions come up.
Take your time and research.
Sandy jo


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## charles95405

Elliot.. the following are some rhinestone systems. I am not sure which will work with your Roland 500. This is a questions to ask the vendors of each product. The follow is a list of names you may wish to do a search for on the forum..under rhinestones...I have listed the _*approx*_ price as I last heard...you will need to check with the vendor. All work very well..some are more robust than others. 
Acugraphics- around $400-$500 ( Klic-N-Kut.com - Computerized Cutting systems and supplies )
Funtime- around $60 to $169( Funtime Scrapbooking - Digital scrapbooking software! )
Digital Arts Solutions ( www,stonestencils.com ) price will depend on what equip/software you have
winpcsign pro-under $299 ( Signmax.us Our Products )
Roland R-Wear- around $500 ( R-Wear Studio )
Bling It (Graphtec) just came out and I do not know the price...( Bling !t Biz.com, Iron On Rhinestone Transfer Systems, Rhinestone Shirts )
Roland EGX 350 (a desktop rotary engraver)-around $5k ( EGX-350 Desktop Engraver )

I am sure I have missed some...if so someone will remind me.

As Sandy Jo suggests...do a search and read the various posts...it is a fascinating field


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## vadan

I use r-wear, just make your design and copy it to illustrator, ten cut on craftrobo.

What I wanted to ask is with regards to the ACS simulation system. I'd really like to be able to do this but obviously r-wear doesn't (roland learn something here).

What other ways can I get a similar effect, I have both Adobe and Corel packages.

How much is the ACS software?

V


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## sjidohair

if you are using rwear,, you do have a fill feature,,,

I havent opened the program for a while,, 
but let me see if i can get to it and show you how to do a fill..

plan B corel,,, luis here on the forum has made a macro, for corel,,,,, for fills,,, contact luis,,, 

if you need any further info please ask


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## SandyMcC

vadan said:


> I use r-wear, just make your design and copy it to illustrator, ten cut on craftrobo.
> 
> What I wanted to ask is with regards to the ACS simulation system. I'd really like to be able to do this but obviously r-wear doesn't (roland learn something here).
> 
> What other ways can I get a similar effect, I have both Adobe and Corel packages.
> 
> How much is the ACS software?
> 
> V


ACS Studio is $399 and it has the driver to cut to the Graphtec 5000. KNK Studio GE has the driver to cut to the smaller Craft Robo and it retails for $139. It doesn't have the Hatch Fill feature contained in ACS Design Studio, but you can fill designs with a number of other methods that I show in the rhinestone videos here:

KNK Rhinestone Videos


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## vadan

Cheers guys, r-wear doesn't do the simulation fill like ACS, it just does colour fill.

I got r-wear for £100 and its not really worth me spending another £200-300 on a software just for fill so hmmm... need another option.

V


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## sjidohair

Hang on V, I think i can show you how,, ,
i have to get to that computer , that wont happen till tonight,, 
Like i said i have not used rwear for a fill for a while, but i have used it in the past....

with so many programs, going back and forth to each one,, i have to refamilize myself as well,, 
so hang on,,,


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## vadan

Thanks a lot ur saving my life, can't wait to see what you show me 

btw, congrats in the world cup, we're both through lol.



sjidohair said:


> Hang on V, I think i can show you how,, ,
> i have to get to that computer , that wont happen till tonight,,
> Like i said i have not used rwear for a fill for a while, but i have used it in the past....
> 
> with so many programs, going back and forth to each one,, i have to refamilize myself as well,,
> so hang on,,,


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## vadan

*UPDATE: HOW TO CREATE RHINESTONE SIMULATION DESIGNS IN ADOBE ILLUSTRATOR*

First off, I want to thank everyone for their input and help, especially Sandy .

Secondly, i've figured out how to create rhinestone simulation designs in Adobe Illustrator, the process is exactly as Sandy shows in the ACS tutorial, and it works like a charm.

Step 1.
Create your rhinestone template in your desired application, be it R-wear, corel, acs (for which you can do this anyway), etc...

Step 2.
Import your template design in to Illustrator, I just copy and paste from R-wear in to Illustrator without problem. Remember, the design you import has to be a vector file, so no bitmap, jpeg etc, it wont work.

Step 3.
Your design will automatically group when pasted in to AI so upgroup it but keep it entirely selected. Then on your toolbar at the top go to *Object > Compound Path > Make* (click it).

Step 4.
If you are fortunate enough to have watched Sandy's tutorial you will see she has created background images of different rhinestone colours. (With consent from Sandy, download these as you will need them). *Thank you Sandy, I hope i'm not being too cheeky *

Step 5.
Once you have your backgrounds, simply drag and drop your chosen colour in to Illustrator. Align you rhinestone design on top of the background and make sure you arrange the design to front. I'm sure you know how that works.

Step 6.
Select both the design and the background and then on your toolbar go to *Object > Clipping Mask > Make* (click it).

Step 7.
Enjoy your beautiful rhinestone simulated design 

You can use multiple colours for your design. Just follow the same step but instead of creating a compound path for the entire design just create sections of the design you want in a particular colour. Then simply complete the step and apply each grouped compound to your required colour and hey presto.

I hope this helps, it's definately made my day learning something new lol!

Raj​


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## BML Builder

Thanks Raj,

Wonderful tutorial. You did a great job and I am sure that many will greatly benefit from these instructions.


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## sjidohair

I agree,, a great job,,, 
thanks for posting it, in fact it might need to have its own, thread,,,, as it may get lost here in this thread,,,,,, just something to think about,,
sandy jo


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## SandyMcC

Raj did start a new thread at the same time he responded here:

AI Simulation


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## vadan

This lesson I learn't couldn't have come at a better time! I made a few standard rhinestones designs and they wern't getting interest, so I simulated them all, added them back and i've had 5 orders confirmed today purely 'cos of the images. Now that's a result! lol

Hope this does help others

Raj


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## SandyMcC

That's GREAT news! Congrats!!!


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## sccreativedesign

Does anyone who has this machine know how to use the engraving portion, how does that tie in with the software? I paid extra for the engraving blade and cant figure out how to use it?
Sue


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## SandyMcC

Hi Sue,

Have a look at Sections 9.6 and 9.7 of the ACS User Manual or Sections 9.4 and 9.5 of the KNK User Manual. They cover how to use the Banner Fill function in the software, as well as how to use the drop-in engraving tool. Then feel free to post your questions here or even contact me privately if you need help with engraving.


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## sccreativedesign

Thanks
Sandy


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## circuit

Hello Sandy, 
Do you know what driver I would need to use if I was trying to run the eagle with FlexiStarter 8.6? I can't seem to get it to cut because it keeps asking for a driver. I am using a macbook pro. ... which is obviously the whole problem. These cutters do not like macs. 

thanks...


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## SandyMcC

Did you order the Foison edition of Flexi-starter? That's the only one that I know of that will work because it comes with the driver for Foison machines.


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## circuit

I just asked the people at accugraphics if the Flexistarter 8 for mac would work with the machine. They said "yes" it would, so I ordered flexistarter







8 for mac...


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## SandyMcC

Oh okay... then look for Foison in the list of available machines.


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## circuit

it has Foison in the list of manufacturers

and the list of models it supports are

c12
c24
c30
c36
c48
s12
s24
s30
s36
s48


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## SandyMcC

I believe you need to use c24 (24 being the max cutting width on your model). Also, you'll need to find your COM Port assignment and then make sure that's set up. You may possibly also need the Baud Rate... I'm not really sure since I've never used Flexistarter. But in our software, those are the things that have to be set up in the software.


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## circuit

Just got it working....
Thank you soooooooo much.
You are so very helpful.


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## SandyMcC

YAY!!! That's terrific news!!! Happy I could help!


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## agensop

Told ya she was the best person to help ya 




circuit said:


> Just got it working....
> Thank you soooooooo much.
> You are so very helpful.


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