# hoodies and fleece problems



## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Hey, everyone. I just finished a run of hoodies, and they weren't going so hot, but I thought they looked passable at least. Turns out my customer wasn't completely satisfied, so I'm going to redo some of them.
My problem is that these black hoodies are coming out bumpy, I think partially because my initial underbase white tends to fight going on solidly and evenly, but I think there are other factors at play. 

1. It seems like it would be a good idea to use more adhesive, but hoodies tend to have softer, lintier insides; meaning the fluff may stick to the board and let the rest of the hoody pull up. That said, I wasn't having too many problems with the hoody lifting.

2. The hoody material seems to really suck up a lot more ink than a t-shirt, which means a good number of hits, and even a pfp to get a nice white base. Is this to be expected with a coarser knit?

3. Between the shirt prints and the hood prints, I didn't adjust my off-contact. Is that a significant oversight?

4. I assumed screen tension would be the big factor. But when I moved from static screens on one design, to 30 newton retensionables on the next, I didn't notice much of a difference.

5. My underbase is going through a 160 mesh (because there's one little spot that requires some halftones). Should I move to a 110

Is a bumpier print just unavoidable on a coarser material to a certain extent?
Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated! I really want to figure this out so I can avoid displeased customers where ever possible! The test print on the black test pelon, by the way, comes out perfectly nice and smooth.

Thanks for any suggestions!


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

If you tried the 30 newton screen and it was the same I would say it would probably be your off contact and maybe even also your inks may be too stiff. Your underbase needs to be super smooth for the final colors on top to be smooth. Are you using an auto or manual press? Squeegee flood and print strokes are just as important. Use web adhesive spray tack for hooded sweatshirts and fleece type material. A little bit of lift will cause the ink to pull back up and cause a hairy bumpy print. I would stick with the 30 newton screen, raise your off contact, stir your inks and maybe even warm them up next to a flash dryer if you live in a cold place and perhaps add a little reducer, and give that a try.


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## foot print (Jun 2, 2010)

Tshirt Guru nailed it..off contact is key..if the underbase is bumpy the rest of the print will do exactly the same. Try some reducer and make sure the ink clears from the screen after each print.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

the off contact is defiantly a factor. you measure the distance from the bottom of your screen to the top of the fabric, not the platen. With the added garment thickness from a t-shirt to a hoody, you would need to adjust your off contact. 
Sweat shirts do absorb allot more ink, ideally you want the ink to sit on top of the fibers, try not to drive the ink into the fabric.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Thanks, guys! I'm using a manual, 6-color press. 

So what is the best method to adjust my off-contact after printing the t-shirts? normally I just lay a sheet of ~1/8inch cardboard on my pallet, bring my screen down on it, and tighten down my adjusters. Should I do the same thing, but lay the board on TOP of the hoody?

Also, should I maybe consider a triple durometer squeegee?

Lastly, I am printing in a cold city, and my basement is definitely colder than the rest of the house. Is there a standard method people use to make sure their ink stays creamy enough? Hang a heater of some kind over the screens or something?

Thanks again!


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Thanks, PixelPimp. 
The white ink definitely requires some pressure to clear. How do I manage to lay the ink on top of the fabric without going too light on the squeegee? Just thin and stir/heat the ink?


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

One other quick thing - I'm using a hopkins 6/4 manual press, which has 3 nuts I need to loosen for off contact adjustments. If my design is in perfect registration for the t-shirts, and then I need to adjust the off contact for the hoodies, will I need to re-register? If so, that's going to be a pain since the screens will already have ink in them


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

teezecrost said:


> Thanks, PixelPimp.
> The white ink definitely requires some pressure to clear. How do I manage to lay the ink on top of the fabric without going too light on the squeegee? Just thin and stir/heat the ink?


i would try not to thin the ink too much if you need to add some reducer. best to warm/stir the ink to get it manageable. i know you're having a temperature issue in the shop, the cold won't make this easy for you.

you're printing manuly, so i'm thinking you may need to use a flood print technique using a hard squeegee. this will allow you to laydown a bit more ink for the hoodys and clear your screen. As long as you're not trying for fine detail this should help allot.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Thanks again, PixelPimp. Should I go with a triple durometer, or just something harder like a 70 or 80?


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

anything harder is a step up, triple is good but maybe tougher to flood with. i'd suggest trying the 80 if you have them handy, should be fine with 70 too.. whatever you have handy.

The offcontact issue is most probably the main cause of your problem. using the 1/8"board is a good idea, load a shirt and place the board. do the same thing for the hoody.

I forget how the hopkins works with off contact.. if adjusting off contact throws the setup off registration i have a feeling there's no way around it.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Ok, I've ordered some web adhesive, new white ink, made a note to use a triple durometer squeegee on the white screen, made some more accurate off contact spacers out of business cards and packing tape (to put ON TOP of the fabric), will remember to crank my heat up in preparation for printing, will stir my ink, will use an off-contact tab, and will pre-heat the hoodies, will use new 30+ newton screens... And will cross my fingers.
Not sure when the re-print is going to happen, but I'll let y'all know how it turns out! 
Thanks again!


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

I just did some experimenting, and yes the registration does indeed get thrown off when the off-contact is adjusted. I don't want to have to re-register and re-off-contact every time I switch from hoody to t-shirt and vise-versa. I'll have 7 designs to do that for!
Can someone please tell me it'll be ok to just set off-contact for the hoody and use that with the t-shirts too??


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

(bump)
Anyone? It's actually something I've wondered about - what are the cons of extra off-contact?


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

arrrg i thought i replied to this, not sure what happened to my post lol

i'm really not sure if the extra contact will cause you major problems. i do think it's a good option tho. i'm thinking you would need allot more pressure and that tiny detail will most likely smudge but it may be a good solution for the job you're doing. If you can do a test.. i'd try it.

too much off contact often causes a ruff print tho :/
i'm hoping this is an easy solution for you... if not.. you'll have to adjust off contact and reregister.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Haha - I wish screen printing wasn't such a case-by-case, "dive in and see" kind of art to learn!
Thanks though, PP. Maybe is better than never!


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

teezecrost said:


> Haha - I wish screen printing wasn't such a case-by-case, "dive in and see" kind of art to learn!
> Thanks though, PP. Maybe is better than never!


hehe so true, screen printing is easy in theory but can get complicated in practice. There's so many variables to account for, it's almost rocket science ;]


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Ok, the ongoing saga...
I burned my screens for the next hoody design and did all the stuff i mentioned in my post earlier in this thread.
good news: no bumps (so far)
bad news: new mysteries (of course)

So, here's the deal: This design is on black hoodies, and contains white, tan, and blue. The blue actually comes in 2 shades, which I'm mimicking using halftones for the lighter shade. So i figure "let's make it nice", and I put the blue on a 230 screen. This actually turns out to be not so bad, except in some areas of the solid blue where I'm getting virtually NO coverage. These areas are the areas where the underbase was done at 70 or 80% to avoid super thick deposits. Seems like the blue (and tan) is virtually repelled from any part of the underbase that isn't a dot of ink. This is not good!

I was eventually able to get one hoody done, and looking fairly decent, but not without stroke after stroke after stroke! Also, the tan area that was having this problem (also a 230) printed fine (2 strokes) on a regular t-shirt when I loaded one, and the whole design printed perfectly on a test pelon when i was registering initially. I'm confused and tired!

my best guesses are, I need to:
-reburn tan and blue to use 156 screens
-thin my inks a lot (already mixed and warmed as much as I'm ever willing to do)
-reburn white underbase as a solid color; no halftones
-burn all hoodies. No more hoodies for anyone, ever.

Thanks for any insight anyone can offer me. I can scrounge up and email a shot of the art if anyone needs a visual aid.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

And when I say "stroke after stroke", I mean 20 or so at least. Aside from the tiny blips appearing on the halftone dots of the underbase, there was NO tan ink passing onto the garment. It was like someone laminated the ink into the mesh; until i printed it out onto a waste shirt.


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## foot print (Jun 2, 2010)

If no ink is coming through your screen sounds like you are not washing your screens correctly..20 strokes to get in through any mesh count is about 18 or 19 strokes to many...LOL upload a pic of your handy work and maybe someone can give a better answer.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Thanks, foot print. Here's a piece of the art; I haven't taken a shot of a print yet, but you can't see the problem on the one I finished anyway. 
Like I said, it prints fine on t-shirt fabric, so there's no wash-out issues on the stencil.

Underneath that tan color is a flashed 70% white underbase (34 lpi pattern, 156 screen)










Thanks!


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

for a bright spot print like that, a solid underbase for a hoodie would be best.


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## teezecrost (May 9, 2007)

Thanks, PP. To stay positive, at least I'm learning a lot on this job!!


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## Charms4all (Jan 29, 2007)

perhaps change your platen to a slightly thicker one when you print the t-shirts so you dont have to adjust the off contact.


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