# Anyone have any thoughts on the Sawgrass Virtuoso Printers?



## leslie1023

I have been looking in to getting a sublimation printer and I've been reading about the new Sawgrass Virtuosos. I started out thinking about the Ricoh printers but it seems like these are just the newest versions of those. It does scare me that this is a first generation new product. From what I have read, Sawgrass seems to be a pretty reputable brand in sublimation. Does anyone have any pros/cons of these printers? I know they are not out yet but I was hoping someone would have some input. Thanks!


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## freebird1963

On here due a search for died gx-7000 and see how reliable SG is and reputable about their inks and doing the right thing.


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## leslie1023

Thanks for the heads up. I might just get an Epson with CIS from Cobra Ink. I'm still using my R200 for everyday home use- it's probably over 10 years old now and I've had zero issues with it.


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## Vitaman

I have a Ricoh 3110. It works fine, and the prints are great. The SawGrass ink is pricey, but I don't do a lot of sublimating, so the Ricoh is nice because it spits a little ink out every so often to keep the print head from getting clogged. I'm sure the new printers work pretty much the same.

If I was expecting to be printing stuff everyday, I would probably go with the biggest Epson I could get and use Cobra inks. If you are just dabbling, and might go a week or so without using it, Ricoh has peace of mind built in. Just leave it plugged in and powered on.


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## ModernTreasures

I have used Epsons for years. Back when the c88 was the printer. Yes Epson takes some maintenance. All I do is print a test page every day or 2 and they just keep on running. Again just like I commented on another post it's kind of an open end question like what is better Ford, Chevy, Dodge and so on. Everyone has had problems with both and hate both. I cannot comment on Ricoh because I have never owned one I can just comment on my Epson experience.


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## kennethj

I just purchased a Virtuoso SG400 from Coastal. It ships next week. I will post the results. Im new to sublimation and Sawgrass sold me on there printer. We will see.


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## mgtGrafix

I have a Ricoh 3110 and just picked up a Epson 7610 CISS from Cobra Inks. I love the Ricoh and have just started using the Epson. Other than the color profiles giving me issues from Cobra, I'm digging it.


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## leslie1023

Thanks for all of the feedback! I still keep going back and forth about which printer to get. The price of the Epson is looking pretty good. I feel like I would have the "newest technology" with Sawgrass. My brother in-law is a mechanic and he always says not to get a car when it first comes out/has a new style until they work the kinks out and I worry about that with the Sawgrass printers. I can get a 2 year warranty with it though, and I still have not heard back from Cobra Ink about their warranty, if they have one. I can't wait to hear how the Sawgrass works for people once they get them but I don't know if I want to wait that long to order a printer.


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## Vitaman

That Virtuoso looks exactly like my 3110dnw, except it says Sawgrass instead of Ricoh on the top left. Might want to compare the specs. It could just be re-branded for marketing/warranty reasons. Regardless, I'm sure it's a good printer.


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## cbs1963

Vitaman said:


> That Virtuoso looks exactly like my 3110dnw, except it says Sawgrass instead of Ricoh on the top left. Might want to compare the specs. It could just be re-branded for marketing/warranty reasons. Regardless, I'm sure it's a good printer.


The Virtuoso line is made by Ricoh for Sawgrass to use their new hd line of ink. Hope this helps.


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## mgtGrafix

Check out these from Conde: It's a 4 part series on the evaluation of the new SG800 Virtuoso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7TA8z4PvcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmrb7CALbG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR5kqvfxApI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MhQayYYhvs


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## dus7

We have two Ricoh sg7100dn's which are similar to the sg800 virtuoso printers. We have had a spurt where some of the inkjets were getting clogged, but eventually went away. The ink wasn't expired, but the printer may have not been in the correct environment (humidity and all that). We've been using Ricoh's for a while and they are pretty good with good resolution, but like probably many or all of the desktop sub printers, they are "disposable". They will eventually reach an end of life. In our case this means the print head eventually just wears out, but this probably happens on nearly all sub printers. It's just that some are worth replacing the head and some are not.


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## SubliTEK

*Virtuoso Printers is the new model that Rich oem for sawgrass, it's a good printer.
*


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## Eastcore

I live in a very dry climate, high desert, do you recommend a humidifier ? I don't think I will be using the printer every day. I hope to but I can't guarantee that.


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## mgparrish

Eastcore said:


> I live in a very dry climate, high desert, do you recommend a humidifier ? I don't think I will be using the printer every day. I hope to but I can't guarantee that.


If you are talking about a Ricoh printer those have a built in feature that "trickles" a little ink from the print head every once in a while so you don't have to print everyday. You may not be printing everyday but you are getting daily ink flow.

You can do the same with Epson automatically by using a utility such as Harvey's Head cleaner.

I'm in Phoenix and use Epson. Very very dry here.


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## proworlded

We have had great feedback for the new Virtuoso printers. Prints are brighter and sharper and the Creative Studio software that is included is fantastic.


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## arf3420

Just wanted to see if anyone has heard more on the Virtuoso yet?? I'm about to order one, but am still going back and forth between that or an Epson with CISS ink. I was leaning toward the Sawdust because they're claiming that new ink is more efficient and cost effective than CISS, but I'd really like to know if that's true before I purchase! If the ink doesn't really stretch that much further, then I'd definitely just go with Epson.


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## Vitaman

I honestly can't believe that Sawgrass inks can be close to what bulk refillable cartridges would cost. Not saying it's not going to be a great, low maintenance dye-sub printer, but you can buy bulk ink pretty cheap. I'd like to see a cost per print without factoring in the CIS system, just ink.


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## veetwincowboy

I might be chiming in a little late here but I bought a Ricoh/sawgrass combo from Conde and I love it.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a virtuoso if I needed another printer..


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## arf3420

veetwincowboy said:


> I might be chiming in a little late here but I bought a Ricoh/sawgrass combo from Conde and I love it.
> I wouldn't hesitate to buy a virtuoso if I needed another printer..


Are you able to comment at all on how you do with ink usage and cost? I've seen enough good reviews about Ricoh and Sawgrass that I feel pretty confident in their quality. I'm just a little worried about the cost to run it vs a CIS system. Like Vitaman said, the cost of bulk ink is so cheap, and the sawdust cartridges are pretty pricey? Do you have any estimate of how many prints you get from a cartridge? Also are they the same as the cartridges for Virtuoso? They made it sound like those are a new cartridge design that uses a thicker gel like substance. Could just be a fancy marketing technique though


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## Vitaman

I didn't mean to make it sound like I am against the Ricohs. I have a 3110DNw and use the Sawgrass inks and it works great for me. I like how it maintains itself since I don't use it everyday. That being said, I am going to try the eBay inks next time I need to reup. I've emailed the guy selling the refillable carts and inks on eBay, and he showed me some examples. Looked good to me. 

I guess it depends on how much ink you will be going through as to which system is right for you. For me Sawgrass makes sense since I might go a week or 2 without using it. For someone like skdave, who I'm sure goes through gallons of ink, price would probably be more of a deciding factor.


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## mgparrish

arf3420 said:


> Just wanted to see if anyone has heard more on the Virtuoso yet?? I'm about to order one, but am still going back and forth between that or an Epson with CISS ink. I was leaning toward the Sawdust because they're claiming that new ink is more efficient and cost effective than CISS, but I'd really like to know if that's true before I purchase! If the ink doesn't really stretch that much further, then I'd definitely just go with Epson.



Perhaps that claim from SG is against _their _own Ricoh inks vs. _their _Epson bulk sub inks in SG's "bag" CIS system.

Competitors sub inks on the Epson platform are around 1/5 the price of SG.


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## arf3420

Ahhh that's a good point, I'm sure they probably wouldn't consider the generic competitor inks for that statement. I run my vinyl cutter all day, 6-7 days a week, so I'm expecting to probably run the sublimation every day as well. Better play it safe and go with the bulk inks


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## veetwincowboy

Hi Amanda,
I have been using my ricoh/sawgrass combo for 2 months and I am still at around half on my levels, but having said that I haven't done a ton of shirts with it, just a handful. I have done about 35 mugs but I have sublimated about 48 tiles 6x6 and 4x4 and about a half dozen smaller flags, and some plates and awards, when you first install your cartridges the level drops a little as the lines fill with ink but every time I check my levels I am pleasantly surprised at how much is left. I think that if I were to do the math it has already paid for its self and any subsequent sawgrass cartridges that I have to buy are just the cost of doing business but well worth it, for me anyway.


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## veetwincowboy

And I almost forgot, i'm not trying to be a cheerleader for CONDE but my experience with them has been great so far, and with the ricoh/sawgrass set up they also gave me a $50.00 credit that I used for heat tape, sublimation paper, adhesive spray, teflon sheet and a bunch of sub samples and products....
I didn't expect that when I ordered so it was a nice touch.


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## kennethj

Conde has been very good with me too. Very helpful with my Virtuoso printer. Its also a great printer, i recommend it.


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## dusseven

The SG400 is a cheap, stripped down SG3110, which itself is a cheap, stripped down 3300.
You'll be paying thousands of dollars per liter in ink for a printer that is about as disposable as it gets, you'll be lucky if it lasts one year. I've heard they have had lots and lots of problems, including the magenta ink not working correctly. Avoid!


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## kgheirloom

I am just taking my FOURTH Ricoh printer to the dump and will not be purchasing another. The printers, ranging from 8.5" to 13" don't stay working and some of the models simply turned themselves off and wouldn't come back on. Ricoh said, "Oh, some of the models do that. You'll have to throw that one out and buy a new one." 
I am a high end fine art, screenprinting, and reproduction studio that depends upon exact duplication and colour matching. I absolutely love the Sawgrass inks and, no matter what the volume, can justify the cost of ink for the beautiful results it gives. BUT...I will never own another Ricoh printer. The last 3110 only worked for three months and came out of the box "old" according to Ricoh, so no one would replace it under warranty. The printer was working fine one minute and the next the paper feed went out and the print was 1.5 inches off the page. The earlier three printers did the same thing and an update of firmware resolved the issue (after we located a PC laptop because downloads will not work on Mac computers), but this printer couldn't be repaired and we were told to throw it out and buy a new printer-----OH, and buy a new computer because your operating system won't work with the new Virtuoso, according to Conde. I investigated and 10.7.2 works just fine, but Conde is out for a fifth printer sale. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!


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## westside02

kennethj said:


> I just purchased a Virtuoso SG400 from Coastal. It ships next week. I will post the results. Im new to sublimation and Sawgrass sold me on there printer. We will see.


ARe you sublimating light colour well on this virtuoso sg400? I have it as well but having so much trouble with light colours not sublimating smooth. They have dark streaks instead of nice light colour.


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## arf3420

So far the Sawgrass has been okay, but we go through ink super fast, and also have a lot of trouble with poor printing quality. Sometimes I have to reprint an image 4-5 times before I get one that isn't streaky looking. Not very happy about that, when the ink is so expensive. This is the only sublimation printer I've ever used though, so I don't have anything else to compare it to.


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## westside02

yes, poor quality streaky looking is the main issue im having with virtuoso. I've been testing a lot of things but when paper and ink is so expensive, im limiting myself. But i have a feeling that it's got to do with their driver and their preset settings.


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## smleh

Hi! I'm having major issues with my sg400 printing "dots" within my image. They sent me a replacement printer and I'm having the same issue straight out of the box. Any idea what the issue could be?


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## swischer

HI everyone. I just bought the sg400 and it's working awesome. My issue is all of the sudden the creative studio software is acting up..it keeps asking me what application I want to use to open up the documents....I can't print from the software anymore..I have no idea what happened. It was printing from there perfectly. Now I can't set up a new job or go to the saved ones  Can anyone help? I guess I need to know what "application" to choose when trying to open a document. Thank you.


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## David09

According to me good enough


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## kimki1

Leslie,

I am now considering a Ricoh Virtuoso 400 or an Epson Artisan 1430 and I am wondering how your search turned out and whether you are happy with your purchase ? Which printer did you buy? Thanks
Kim


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## malkram

kimki1 said:


> Leslie,
> 
> I am now considering a Ricoh Virtuoso 400 or an Epson Artisan 1430 and I am wondering how your search turned out and whether you are happy with your purchase ? Which printer did you buy? Thanks
> Kim


Sawgrass Virtuoso SG 400 is horrible.. better get the Artisan 1430, ink is cheaper with the CISS and quality will be superior.

SG 400 is a 4-color office printer.. while the Epson is a 6-color fine art/photo printer, you chose..


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## kimki1

malkram said:


> Sawgrass Virtuoso SG 400 is horrible.. better get the Artisan 1430, ink is cheaper with the CISS and quality will be superior.
> 
> SG 400 is a 4-color office printer.. while the Epson is a 6-color fine art/photo printer, you chose..


Thanks for the advice. I have run with a Workforce 7620 and Cobra inks. Will let you know how that turns out. Sorry you had such a bad experience with Sawgrass virtuous SG400. Kim


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## malkram

bro WorkForce are office printers, it's not really designed to deliver high quality prints. I'm interested in seeing how this printer does, as well as Cobra inks, can you PM me some pics ?


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## kimki1

malkram said:


> bro WorkForce are office printers, it's not really designed to deliver high quality prints. I'm interested in seeing how this printer does, as well as Cobra inks, can you PM me some pics ?


Will do. I am aware it is an office printer, but it came down to affordability, efficiency and durability. The Workforce 7610/20 seemed widely endorsed by members of this forum so I took a chance being a newbie. Will send you examples once I have everything up and running. Kim


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## mgparrish

malkram said:


> bro WorkForce are office printers, it's not really designed to deliver high quality prints. I'm interested in seeing how this printer does, as well as Cobra inks, can you PM me some pics ?


I have been using 4 color printers and have used 8 color printers and been sublimating since you first could with inkjet. 

For heat transfer there is very modest gain by using more colors, in fact since with ink jets clogging and banding have to dealt with then you have additional print head maintenance with additional color not to mention at least 50% more waste with 6 colors and 100% more waste with 8 colors when you do a head clean.

I have actually had the opportunity to compare side by side with 4 and 8 colors before using the same design and same ink vendor when I was running 2 different printers.

Only if you are using the higher glossy substrates will you notice AND the image itself must have wider gamut color content. Then you can only tell the difference if you are looking side by side. If you saw either substrate by itself you would say either looked good. And in most cases the gamut difference you have to look very very carefully where only really a good trained eye can see the difference.

I have also compared side by side using pigment inks with Epson Workforce models compared to my Pro model 4880 with 8 colors. I can see a decent difference using glossy photo paper but other papers not so much. But in that case the difference having the extra colors is more obvious than with sublimation.

The bottom line is that anyone can make beautiful images with a "office printer" and only marginal improvement going to extra colors.

The decision to use more colors comes down to a practical one, for me the hassle and cost of the extra colors are not worth the marginal image improvement. I also have artists and photographers as customers.

Sublimation cannot benefit nearly as much with the extra colors since the sub dye is less gamut to begin with than conventional ink jet inks and the paper we use and the "dot gain" of the image due to the expansion of the dot on the surface once heated.

Only if you look closely on a higher gloss surface and either have wider gamut in your image or have a lot gradients will you see much, and it's not really that dramatic. Only really noticeable side by side. Gradients will be smoother due to less dithering having additional colors.

The vast majority of desktop sublimation users are very happy with 4 colors. Many wide format as well using dual CMYK setups.


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## mgparrish

malkram said:


> bro WorkForce are office printers, it's not really designed to deliver high quality prints. I'm interested in seeing how this printer does, as well as Cobra inks, can you PM me some pics ?



All of these are from 4 color "office printers".


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## kimki1

mgparrish said:


> I have been using 4 color printers and have used 8 color printers and been sublimating since you first could with inkjet.
> 
> For heat transfer there is very modest gain by using more colors, in fact since with ink jets clogging and banding have to dealt with then you have additional print head maintenance with additional color not to mention at least 50% more waste with 6 colors and 100% more waste with 8 colors when you do a head clean.
> 
> I have actually had the opportunity to compare side by side with 4 and 8 colors before using the same design and same ink vendor when I was running 2 different printers.
> 
> Only if you are using the higher glossy substrates will you notice AND the image itself must have wider gamut color content. Then you can only tell the difference if you are looking side by side. If you saw either substrate by itself you would say either looked good. And in most cases the gamut difference you have to look very very carefully where only really a good trained eye can see the difference.
> 
> I have also compared side by side using pigment inks with Epson Workforce models compared to my Pro model 4880 with 8 colors. I can see a decent difference using glossy photo paper but other papers not so much. But in that case the difference having the extra colors is more obvious than with sublimation.
> 
> The bottom line is that anyone can make beautiful images with a "office printer" and only marginal improvement going to extra colors.
> 
> The decision to use more colors comes down to a practical one, for me the hassle and cost of the extra colors are not worth the marginal image improvement. I also have artists and photographers as customers.
> 
> Sublimation cannot benefit nearly as much with the extra colors since the sub dye is less gamut to begin with than conventional ink jet inks and the paper we use and the "dot gain" of the image due to the expansion of the dot on the surface once heated.
> 
> Only if you look closely on a higher gloss surface and either have wider gamut in your image or have a lot gradients will you see much, and it's not really that dramatic. Only really noticeable side by side. Gradients will be smoother due to less dithering having additional colors.
> 
> The vast majority of desktop sublimation users are very happy with 4 colors. Many wide format as well using dual CMYK setups.


Thanks Mike, you shored up my faith in my purchase. Kim


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## cr500r

Yes,
I have been using an SG400 for 6 months, I ended up not using the power driver, and finding my own settings in the ricoh driver, and then hunting for spot colors that don't "dot" very much, also not cooking too hot, (using ceramic mugs right now) but longer helps (about 355F for 4.5 minutes), but it's still not as good as I would like!
I have buyers remorse, and have spent way too much time on this problem, I have a Ricoh 3300 that works great still, but it's getting old.
let me know if you want to see my settings... but no promise it will make everything great, only better.
If anyone has a better solution I would love to hear it, as would everyone else who has a SG400 and is trying to make quality prints,
Thanks,
Jeff


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## 13 Stitches

kgheirloom said:


> I am just taking my FOURTH Ricoh printer to the dump and will not be purchasing another. The printers, ranging from 8.5" to 13" don't stay working and some of the models simply turned themselves off and wouldn't come back on. Ricoh said, "Oh, some of the models do that. You'll have to throw that one out and buy a new one."
> I am a high end fine art, screenprinting, and reproduction studio that depends upon exact duplication and colour matching. I absolutely love the Sawgrass inks and, no matter what the volume, can justify the cost of ink for the beautiful results it gives. BUT...I will never own another Ricoh printer. The last 3110 only worked for three months and came out of the box "old" according to Ricoh, so no one would replace it under warranty. The printer was working fine one minute and the next the paper feed went out and the print was 1.5 inches off the page. The earlier three printers did the same thing and an update of firmware resolved the issue (after we located a PC laptop because downloads will not work on Mac computers), but this printer couldn't be repaired and we were told to throw it out and buy a new printer-----OH, and buy a new computer because your operating system won't work with the new Virtuoso, according to Conde. I investigated and 10.7.2 works just fine, but Conde is out for a fifth printer sale. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!


I've had many problems too, 1 Ricoh, 7 epsons, but to be clear, are you referring to the new 
Sawgrass Virtuoso SG400 Sublimation Printer, or ricohs that you put sublimation ink in? I want to know how well the Sawgrass Virtuoso SG400 Sublimation Printer are holding up, & if it's worth it for the larger one, 3x's the price of the smaller one. 
Thanks


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## Conde_David

Sorry, I don't have a 10.7.2 Mac so I can't do a complete test. Did you install the driver?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zartuj

Hi,

I have a previous of SG800 - Ricoh SG7100DN for about 3-4 years and I just got the SG800. 
The Sawgrass is telling that SG800 is newer technology printer, etc but from what I see, I think it is just marketing sales point. The entire printer looks exact the same! And I do believe that it is exact the same printer! They might change some ink components - but I cant see that or say anything about it.
Try to do more research to find out WHAT EXACTLY is different between these two printers.

I have the 7100 I dont print much. Sometimes I havent been doing any prints and not using that printer for months! I had some problems with that but basically only wasting a lot of ink and time doing maintenance (head cleaning / flashing, etc) 
Which was ok.

Before I had an older model Ricoh (7700 - I believe!) and before that Epson 1100 - and that was a nightmare!!! Both! But especially Epson! So, compare to Epson - big plus to Ricoh + ! They solve the head clogging huge issue by using the new gel ink instead a regular ink.

Anyway, long story short. 
Recently my Ricoh 7100 started having some issues with the quality of prints. Any maintenance I have done didn't help! Ricoh is not making spare parts for that printer and I was not able to find a technical service to fix that problem. 
I was forced to buy a new printer which is SG800.

And since the beginning I started having an issues with setting up everything (software, drivers, ICC color profiles, etc.) and getting that printer ready to work

I just got that printer and I am tired of it!

And also, the fact, even I dont print much, after about 3 years that printer will be a trash again, doesnt makes me feel good about it! :/

So, that is my story. 

I do believe, after you will be able to setup everything correctly, eventually you will enjoy using that printer most of the time. There will be a time, when some thing might happen (smash the ink across the paper (especially 19x13) if the paper will not be perfectly flat, adjust the paper feed, or heads, the print will stop in the middle of print and after several seconds of auto maintenance, the printer will continue printing - but that pause will leave uneven print and that print will be a trash!, or sometimes just random the printer will just drop the prints on random stage and started printing the next print (if you printing a several images), etc) 

Anyway,

Good luck!


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## kwatsky

Yes sawgrassinc which sells the sg 400 has a very poor technical support i think they are a one army tech guy. I have been calling them to request help in installing the printer driver with negative result. 

What i got was an apology... But i dont need an apology what i need is have to have the printer running... I registered my sg400 with them and could not even access the creative studio using my log-in profile,

the conde tech was very helpfuly but could not also resolve the issue. I was refereed to sawgrasinc. But got nothing only a voice mail was heard.


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