# all emulsion washing out!



## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

first screen exposure works fine. Second screen we thought we left in the dark room to long and humidity might have been an issue as the stencil and the entire screen washed out like it was nothing. (drying time was 48hrs). Third screen started at night when humidity was low 30% let dry over night 10hrs coating one pass on both sides of screen. Exposure time was 10min first thing in the morning humidity was low and again entire screen washed out very easy. Using sink sprayer with less than average pressure. Emulsion was mixed last week and stored in fridge inside the original box. FYI first and second screen where done at the same time in the same dark room with the same conditions. We are not talking about haveing a hard time spraying out the image and then everything comes off at once. we are talking about it coming off like it is wet even though it is dry to the touch and not sticky at all.

I have one more screen to do and have it drying now for 12hrs with a fan blowing across it horizontally. Really frustrated as I set a procedure and it worked fine for the first screen now the problem seems epic with very little change in procedure.

Going to video the next one so if there is a problem exeryone can see!

Thanks

James


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## PhillyPrintPros (Jul 2, 2015)

What type of water pressure do you have. Do you have enough water pressure? If the pressure is not right the emulsion absorbs the water and washes out.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Im not washing for long as soon as the water hits the emulsion it starts to come off within 5 seconds like I am using the same pressure I used on the first screen and it came out just fine looke exacly like the video I was watching.


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## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

This still sounds like an exposure issue to me. As if the screen is not being exposed to uv light during your exposure time. As a test, can you just take a coated and dried screen out into the sun and let it expose and try to wash that out? If it doesn't wash out, you have an exposure uv problem


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## artlife (Jan 15, 2010)

smokumjames said:


> first screen exposure works fine. Second screen we thought we left in the dark room to long and humidity might have been an issue as the stencil and the entire screen washed out like it was nothing. (drying time was 48hrs). Third screen started at night when humidity was low 30% let dry over night 10hrs coating one pass on both sides of screen. Exposure time was 10min first thing in the morning humidity was low and again entire screen washed out very easy. Using sink sprayer with less than average pressure. Emulsion was mixed last week and stored in fridge inside the original box. FYI first and second screen where done at the same time in the same dark room with the same conditions. We are not talking about haveing a hard time spraying out the image and then everything comes off at once. we are talking about it coming off like it is wet even though it is dry to the touch and not sticky at all.
> 
> I have one more screen to do and have it drying now for 12hrs with a fan blowing across it horizontally. Really frustrated as I set a procedure and it worked fine for the first screen now the problem seems epic with very little change in procedure.
> 
> ...


It's a light problem (exposure unit) if the screens were basically coated and dried the same way. Remember if something washed out it means it was *not* exposed. Entire screen washing out: no exposure at all. So it isn't that your dark room isn't dark enough etc. It means your lights aren't working. I don't want to say most- but many- emulsions are rather forgiving under a variety of circumstances, for instance, not that great exposure unit, not good vacuum, high humidity, hot, cold, etc. So you would get some image and it would good or bad but it would be there in some form. 
p.s. I would not keep the emulsion in the fridge, that's too cold and may create condensation in the bucket. Climate control room temp is best.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Depends on the emulsion. Photopolymer will reabsorb humidity. The fridge trick can extend dual cure emulsion. If it's kept in a tight container, allowed warm to room temp for a hour before opened there will be no condensation. Downside is if gets pushed to back or fridge is too cold any freezing and the emulsion is trash. That also goes for photopolymers. 

Either the emulsion is bad or issues with the light. Using a halogen? Did you take the glass off. 

Tape a nickel to the screen, make sure the back side is covered with cardboard or other material to block out light. Go out side for 30 sec in bight sunlight. If all washed out the emulsion is bad. If just where the nickel is the problem with exposure unit.


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## synful prod (Apr 27, 2011)

your lights are not turning on in your exposure unit. We had this happen once before and it was a bad ballast.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Here is the link to watch and see the setup I really think the emulsion is bad. Gonna order some new and try try again!

https://youtu.be/5J8rC6zfibQ


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

OK screen number 5 new emulsion 500watt light 15" away with glass. mixed emulsion let sit for two hours coated screen let sit for 3 hours exposed 9 minutes. all emulsion washed out like nothing. like it was wet with no effort at all. have a video ill post a link to later but this is some kind of joke. Also dark room set at 50% humidity and 85 deg F.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Does your halogen light have the glass on it. If so remove it. Other wise use the coin trick I posted using the sun to expose. If that works then problem with your ligh If it still washes out your getting bad emulsion or you saying mixing, are you mixing in a sensitizer(dual cure) or using pre mixed (photopolymer).


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

PhillyPrintPros said:


> What type of water pressure do you have. Do you have enough water pressure? If the pressure is not right the emulsion absorbs the water and washes out.


What type of emulsion are you using? Every type I've used over the last 25 years can soak under water overnight and still wash out fine in the morning if it was burned properly... Just curious.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

screen six same result just want to print a shirt this is not right! This time exposed for 9 min again with glass sprayed with water and let sit for 5 min before trying to wash out same result emulsion doesn't stick to screen. just washes all out in the sink what am I doing wrong. Even went to a print shop today and told the guy what im doing said he too thought the emulsion was bad but I wish he was right not it though!


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Sben763 I will take the glass out of the light using This is Saati emulsion DW. Will try the coin trick this weekend. Would like to see some differance as I keep changing variables with the same result.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Take seven coated a screen this morning (getting good at using the scoop coater). Going to let dry for 6-8 hours and take it outside in the sun keeping my fingers crossed!


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Sun exposure worked progress at last. Taped a CD to the screen and was able to see detail on the screen with no washout. Will be trying the step wedge tonight as per the tips I found on this forum 
How to Determine the Correct Exposure when using Vellum.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and sorry for the frustration. Guess the learning curve is big!

James


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## jeron (Jul 16, 2012)

Yeah 9 min it's probably way to short using a 500 watt halogen.. I was at about 10.5 min with a 1000 watt halogen using photopolymer emulsion.

From reading the forums I think your going to be around 20-30 min using a 500 watt..

Sent from my Nexus 6 using T-Shirt Forums


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

You might want to check the area where you store your filled screens. If you have any light leakage into that area (even small amounts) it will wreak havoc with your screens and when you burn them they will have a tendency to wash out this same way.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Here is my sun test as suggested by sben763. We had success no wash out I used a CD instead of a nickel and let it sit outside for 40 sec. Making progess going to do and exposure test tonight with the step-wedge at 5min increments and see how that goes. Thanks again for all the help!

Was gonna post some pics but don't see manage attachments under additional options? Bummer!


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Update getting somewhere now ran the step wedge tonight with long interavals of 5min ending on 40min (I know thats way too long but I just didn't want to see wash out again it would kill me). Detail is seen but it looks like I need to expose 5 min or less. Also my screens are now getting coated thinner and more even which is probably cause I have had to do it a few times now. Will work another step wedge tomorrow.

Thanks again


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## ScottEvil (Apr 20, 2015)

what brand emulsion are you using? 
I'm using a 500watt halogen w/o the glass 18" above my screen and currently use 3 different brands of emulsion with single thin coat on both sides:
Chromablue - 9 minutes
WBP- 9 minutes
CP TEX-15 minutes
43% humidy, dry time 24 hours, garden hose to wash out


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

ScottEvil said:


> what brand emulsion are you using?
> I'm using a 500watt halogen w/o the glass 18" above my screen and currently use 3 different brands of emulsion with single thin coat on both sides:
> Chromablue - 9 minutes
> WBP- 9 minutes
> ...


Scott using Saati emulsion DW did the step wedge at 5min increments and the last one washed out the best going to do another tonight at 2min increments to get my final exposure time for me 50% humidity dry time 4 hours garden hose to wash out. 

I think two factors where originally affecting me:

1. switched out to a 500w halogen light that was in my garadge was much brighter than the one that shipped in my kit.

2. I am applying a much thinner coat of emulsion now to the screens which I think is drying out better.

Would love to attach a picture but I don't have that option under additional options


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Did you remove the glass. The glass on those lights are high iron and have a couple of other materials added for strenght due to the heat. They also are UV filters. This is what is crosslinking(hardening) the emulsion. So with the glass on your only getting 40% of your exposure. 

For the manage attachments. Click Go Advanced next to the post quick reply button. Then when page reloads the manage attachments icon (paper clip) appears at the top of the replay box. Click that and then choose up to 5 pics. It's best to load the no larger the 640 or 720 or it makes the rest of the thread get tiny. Also the file size limit(2-3mb) goes for all pics combined.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

here is my test with the step wedge at 2 min increments i think my exposure is 3-4 min to work best you can see some wash out at 2 min on the fine print going for it tomorrow

going to post an additional thread as this one wont let me post attachements!

no advanced options on the thread at all and no option on additional options


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

No need. I believe before 15 post it restricted. Also you can try clicking the reply with quote button under a post. That will open the advanced reply box with the paper clip icon to attach a pic.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Here is my step wedge in two min increments from 1-8. Im guessing my exposure should be 3min based as on the fine lines on 8 there was some wash out.


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

We are good 4min exposure and my image looks great thanks for all the tips and advice!!!!!!!!!!


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Wow! Everyone says the glass on those lights has a lot of led and UV blocker in it but that's crazy. from 10min. with no exposure to 4min. is sweet. I want that glass in all my windows GAME ON!


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## smokumjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Also used some foam cut to fit inside the screen covered it with a black shirt placed my screen on that and then used some clamps from the glass to the platen to act as weight got a really good positive contact. Too bad my alignment was off but I'm reall happy with my procces now and feel good going forward!


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