# My latest DAS experience...



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Some things stay the same it seems... I've spent literally thousands with DAS over the years... Smart Vector Pro, Smart Designer, Countless Artwork Volumes, DRAWings Embroidery software etc, etc.

I'm very familiar with their selling practices and somewhat what I feel are over exaggerated claims on how amazing a piece of software will make my life. Honestly any software company that is selling software and doesn't list the pricing on their website is a little shady to me.

With all the talk here about the wonderful Stone Cut Pro I broke down and called DAS and talked with Cameron...

A couple weeks later he suggested we do a one on one demonstration... I was supposed to send him some artwork and we would meet the next day... I sent him the artwork and explained I was holding one file back... I didn't want him to see the file.. .Very basic... But I wanted a real time ok here is the challenge and here's what we would do in Stone Cut Pro to stone the design... One of their chief claims is Stone Cut can whip out a design much faster than with CoreDRAW...

So he says to call him at 2:00pm... I call just a few minutes after... They tell me he's gone for the day... WHAT!!! Literally it was like 2:05...

So I sent him an email... It's the middle of the afternoon now... I call DAS... Cameron is gone till next week at a trade show... I ask to speak with another salesman... She ask what about... I said I wanted to talk with someone about Stone Cut Pro... I explained that I was working with Cameron but I was not interesting in waiting till next week. She again asks what I needed with Stone Cut Pro... I explained I had a pre-sales question... She said it sounds like I need to talk to tech support to call back and talk to tech support...

I then asked if their was a manager available... She said that the manager was not available... I then asked who was the manager in the office... She said it was Jay... I know Jay I've dealt with him in the past... She says she can leave him a message... Which is a little strange I thought because before she was trying to send me to Cameron's voicemail.... Why not connect me to Jay's voicemail?...

She then tells me that actually Jay is not in the office at all and she just realized that...

I then promptly hung up...

I don't know if customer service is just that crappy... Or if they just didn't want to deal with me... Cameron actually made a comment yesterday when he was going on and on about this and that and I rebutted with well I can do all that in CorelDRAW.... Why do I need to spend $1,000... He said I sound like someone who knows Corel very well... It's true I'm not a real push over... I've got money to spend if it makes sense for me... But I'm already a little gun shy because they don't quote a price online... Then they say I'm in their loyalty program and get the run around and no call back no return email... Just a crappy way to do business...

Now that I have vented I am going to call again. See what happens...

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

OK I call back... I asked to speak with someone in sales about upgrading some existing software I had...

She then got real snippy and said Oh you're not having a tech support issue anymore?...

I then had to explain that I never had a tech support Issue... It was she who told me I had a tech support issue... We go around and around a bit she connects me with "sales" I get an answering machine... I left a message for someone to call me... 

We'll see what happens from there... Who knew buying a piece of software was such a hassle!

What other vendor wants to sell me some Rhinestone software?... I'm open to suggestions! I might have to abandon my Stone Cut Pro dreams....

Kevin


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> What other vendor wants to sell me some Rhinestone software?


Probably any other vendor you contact (although all vendors may have issues from time to time )

There's lots of information here in this section of the forum about the different rhinestone software programs. 

With a little research, I'm sure you can find a software and vendor that will fit your needs.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Well day one ends with no call back from DAS.... I guess I will wait and see what day two brings.

I will keep you posted. It's important for people to know what kind of customer service you get. I know one thing for sure... There are tons of people who will tell you DAS customer service is second to none... Which pisses me off even more...

Honestly for me I have felt like if you are clueless they will come off as the most helpful people on earth... But if you know a little something and start really asking questions... They would just assume not do business with you because it's like you are somehow questioning their products or putting them on the spot and making them look dumb.

I've been doing business with DAS for years... They have quality products and from what I've seen of Stone Cut Pro it has some neat features... Not a $1,000 neat to me, but neat... Now if it can do what they claim great... I'm all for it and would buy it in an instant...

I can tell you from my experience I'm not the only one that feels DAS hasn't given them great customer service. I've got the PM's to prove it... 

Bottom line the way I was treated today was really uncalled for. And for Cameron not to be there when he told me he would be and then vanish for a week... He could of had another salesperson touch base with me if he was going to be gone for a week.

Anyhow I'll wait and see how long it takes for them to call me back.

Kevin









Kevin


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## DCans (Nov 21, 2009)

Hey Kevin
I'll be speaking with Cameron at the ISS Orlando this Friday.
I'm will be at the booth to see the same software, no DAS artwork bundles for me this year.

I have bought all the same stuff from them with the exception of the embroidery software. 
With the embroidery I've decided that it's just easier, and cheaper, to just pay someone to do it for me than it is for me to learn the whole process.

I felt the same way about them being very helpful if you have no knowledge and then they don't want to bother with you if you have a basic knowledge and have more than a surface question.

I've had similar problems with their customer service. Jay (the GM) has always been the one to go to with issues. Craig (the owner) would be the last one that I would even waste my breath on. The salesmen have been hit or miss and the tech guys (the 2 times that needed tech help) acted like I was taking them away from something that they found more interesting. 

Want me to pass on any love notes from you?


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

DCans said:


> Want me to pass on any love notes from you?



Oh yeah call him out for me! 

"You know that Kevin dude from Iowa you were supposed to talk to at 2:00pm the other day? Yeah that guy is lighting it up on the boards! He's not happy you were not in your office like you said you were going to be to do a live Stone Cut Pro Demo and then you don't respond to emails... No one called to let him know you were going to be gone for a WEEK!... Then he calls to talk with someone else and just got a run around..."

They have Blackberry's or Email on their phones... I have an iPhone that I get emails all day long and respond to my customers... Now if I'm actually going to be away... I use this crazy thing called an email autoresponder... Super easy to do and lets people know you are not ignoring them... You are just out for a bit and will get back to them when you return...

I'm pissed because I feel like they just wrote me off... That guy asks too many questions he's going to be a problem let's blow him off... Surely they have to know people share their experiences with others in the industry no?...

I wish I was going... I would sure like to hold their feet to the fire and listen to the explanation they have...

When I mentioned I know Jay... That's why I know him... He's the one to put out the fires when there are issues and he's a level headed guy... Craig not so much... He's always right and we customers don't know what we are talking about... Except I know I do! When DRAWings first came out years ago... They were like oh you're having problems.. Send it back we'll give you a refund... Why just because I know more about the program than your tech guy?... In the end I kept DRAWings and love it to this day but I was on my own to "figure it out"... They were clueless...

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

UPDATE... UPDATE... UPDATE...

Firstly I'm not out to bash DAS... But I'm willing to call a spade a spade despite the fact many will not like what I have to say....

I got a call EARLY! Katie Owen was her name... Super nice...

I actually got an email from Cameron..... Here is that email...

"I had to run home for a family emergency which is why I was not able to call you. I am in Orlando now for a trade show so we can setup something up for next, however, I am not sure what you are wanting to see with the rhine stone part? You have seen all the videos, you have joined the webcast to see the software in action and you have spoken with Craig on this matter. By the way, we do not have a discount for upgrading from Smart Vector Pro so the discount you are getting in not common."  

He's not sure what I wanted to see on the Rhinestone part?... I sent him several design I wanted to see him process with Stone Cut Pro and make me a Rhinestone Template... Seemed simple enough to me?...

There are 10 videos on their website all are actually Smart Cut Pro the software before Stone Cut Pro... These 10 videos are in my opinion for clueless people that are easily impressed that don't know enough to ask the right questions... The Web Cast the Trade Show demos... That means nothing... Those examples are hand picked to show the very best result... The designs I sent over that Katie demonstrated... Those are everyday actual client orders that I wanted to see how the software processed...

She was really nice and did the one on one demo for me as I asked... She had the approach, it is what it is, you decide what you think...

So I spent an hour with her... She went thru the 5 or 6 designs I sent her... We didn't get a single usable design however. I did record the session for anyone who wants to see the complete session PM me for the details...

My thing was solely to see if the software really is what it says it is and in the demonstration I saw... It isn't... 

I did this video using CorelDRAW...

CorelDRAW Rhinestone - Checkered Flag - YouTube

Perfect results in 15 minutes... But you have to know what you are doing...

So my question is with Stone Cut Pro do I have to know anything or can I click and get the results I need or close to the results I need with less effort... Turns out for our simple little Checkered Flag.. Stone Cut is not the answer... More over... To get the same exact results in any "Rhinestone Software" You just can't click a button and get anywhere near the same results... You can get similar results if you take the same steps I did in CorelDRAW... But then why not just use CorelDRAW?...

I have a video segment of the Stone Cut Demo Katie did for me if you want to PM me for details.

You can see in the demo the results are not useable... She didn't want to stay in my parameters either... She kept wanting to scale the design to get better results but I needed the design the size I made it...

I had to laugh towards the end she asked if I had seen enough and I told her I had... I explained if I'm spending a $1000.00 on software that is a big commitment for me and it better do something pretty special for $1,000.00... She totally laughed that off... Really? $1,000 is a big deal for software?... Are you kidding me?... Drop in the bucket... She goes on to explain how she spent like $17,000 on embroidery software... So please! $1,000 pocket change... LOL

Anyhow again this wasn't about putting DAS down or bashing Stone Cut Pro... The software does some interesting things no doubt... But I'm a software developer by trade... It's what I do everyday... My fiance is the embroidery rhinestone and screen printer... I help with the artwork... All those "fancy" features... I have all that in CorelDRAW... Granted I had to program those added features...

At least now I can rest easy that I don't feel I'm being left out...

I'll stick to my CorelDRAW ways for now... But I've always got my eyes open for the next great thing!

Kevin


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Try ACS, Sandy's support is the finest! Second to none, and a hell of a lot cheaper.


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

katruax said:


> .... I know one thing for sure... There are tons of people who will tell you DAS customer service is second to none... Which pisses me off even more...
> 
> 
> Kevin
> ...


Kevin, I've come to respect your opinion and the work you do, but it seems as though you have forgotten to respect the OPINION of others. 

I agree 100% that customer service should be top priority and great all the time. But CRAP happens. I've people who think I'm the worst customer service person in the world, because something happened and no matter what I do it won't be enough.

I'm sorry your experience with DAS has not been pleasurable, but I AM one of those people that will tell you that DAS is the best thing since sliced bread, and I don't see why that should "piss" you off Aren't I entitled to my opinion? You may not agree, but piss you off, isn't that a little, well maybe mean?

I am also one of those people who will tell you that there is no other rhinestone program out there that can do the things for ME, that the DAS software has done, from the initial SmartCut to the current Stone Cut. I had, and still don't have, any "graphic software" knowledge. Even more important, I don't really want to have any. When I accidentally got into rhinestoning in 2007, I needed, something that would let me take a picture, not one I drew, but one I "aquired" from somewhere, click a button, and voila, a rhinestone pattern. That's all I had the time and patience for, and DAS fulfilled that need. Of course, when folks here posted the method for using CorelDraw to do this, I bought CorelDraw and gave it a try. Even paid somebody $50 for a training webinar. My final determination, IT'S NOT FOR ME. If I can't click it and stone it, then basically, it's not for me. The important part here is FOR ME. You guys do some amazing things with CorelDraw, and I respect and am intrigued by your knowledge of that software, it's just not for me. So while tons of us here have spent thousands of words on "what can DAS do that ???? can't do, and in the same amount of time", most of the "old heads" have already discovered that your level of knowledge in certain areas, will make certain programs seem over rated to you. But to ME, it's the best thing since sliced bread


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

No disrespect to you Carol and your opinion...

What I meant to say is other people such as yourself can get great customer service... And yet for some reason I never have... It's like there is a personality conflict or something...

So when I said it pisses me off... What I meant was it pisses me off you and others can get great customer service and I've always struggled getting customer service issues resolved...

So I'm sorry about that confusion...

_"When I accidentally got into rhinestoning in 2007, I needed, something that would let me take a picture, not one I drew, but one I "aquired" from somewhere, click a button, and voila, a rhinestone pattern. That's all I had the time and patience for, and DAS fulfilled that need."_

This is what frustrates ME!

You're well respected in what you do... You say DAS allows you to essentially click a button and bam your Rhinestone design or very close to it with little knowledge and work... I want to believe!

So the other day I did this video on a simple checkered flag in CorelDRAW... Very easy to do if you know CorelDRAW...

CorelDRAW Rhinestone - Checkered Flag - YouTube

Now here was the demo I got today of the same design with Stone Cut Pro...

StoneCutDemo.mp4 - YouTube

Total rubbish... Nothing usable at all... Katie attempted many settings and adjustments and nothing came close to what I did in CorelDRAW...

So you say click and bam... OK... I tried to let the experts show me the click and bam... What I actually got was click and bam... OK not so great... You'll have to tweak this that and the other... Honestly not a single example was something I would use or even remotely close to what I would use... 

You can watch the whole demonstration here if you want... I'm not making this stuff up...

http://youtu.be/4S51l-5zzbQ?hd=1


I did this video on making a Rhinestone Baseball Heart...

Rhinestone Baseball Heart with CorelDRAW - YouTube

If you watch the full demo above where she does the baseball heart... PAINFULL to watch... I mean she try's but the results after this setting and that are just BLEAK!... Much better results using CorelDRAW in my opinion...

So I want to believe DAS will save me tons of time... Or some other Rhinestone software... I just haven't yet seen an real life example to say WOW! This thing is slick!

Kevin


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## tee09 (Oct 30, 2009)

katruax said:


> What I meant to say is other people such as yourself can get great customer service... And yet for some reason I never have... It's like there is a personality conflict or something...


You NEVER have? But yet you "spent literally thousands with DAS over the years" 

Im just a little confused


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

You read it right... Just because the customer service has lacked doesn't mean their products suck... When I bought my first copy of DRAWings they were the only dealer I knew of.. So I bought from them... That's where it kinda all started with them... Then they have their artwork packages... Like $300-$500 a piece... I have like 8 or 10 of them... Then I got SmartVector Pro... Liked the idea of the vectorization... Never really used it because the results I got with the images I was given and using weren't really the best... The demo they show over and over works great... But it's supposed to... They are not going to show you something that doesn't work very well...

Then I went on to purchase SmartDesigner.... So as a retailer I could buy things from them... But on the customer service side of things not the best experiences...

Now I am quick to point out Katie today was super sweet and answered all my questions and did her best to explain how the Stone Cut software works... But getting to her was an uphill battle...

Previous to that I've had my challenges...

Kevin


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Kevin, I watched the Flag video, and I honestly don't know what she was doing. I know my approach would have been different, from what I think she was trying to do. What's missing, is what size was the design she was working with, what size stones were you trying to use, and what was the spacing? It looks to me like you were trying to cram some big stones in a small space, and that is never going to work, no matter what software you are using. I'd love to give your artwork a spin myself.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

allhamps said:


> What's missing, is what size was the design she was working with, what size stones were you trying to use, and what was the spacing? It looks to me like you were trying to cram some big stones in a small space, and that is never going to work, no matter what software you are using. I'd love to give your artwork a spin myself.


Oh but see that is what she kept trying to say too... I have the finished design... I did a video that shows how I did the flag in CorelDRAW... So there was no cramming of stones in a small space... The design is what it is and looks great.

This flag was used as a car decal... So it was 5 inches wide... She kept trying to scale it up or use a smaller stone but that's not what I wanted... I wanted the flag to be about 5" wide... Really my thing was each square in the flag to hold 4 SS10 stones... That's what really dictates the overall size... The exact spacing between stones really doesn't matter... I use .4mm between stones generally but it's whatever spacing is required to produce a usable template ss10 3.3mm holes and .4mm spacing = width and height of design.

What I wanted to see is how would you create the exact same design I did in CorelDRAW in Stone Cut Pro and get the exact same results. And more over can Stone Cut Pro really do the design faster than I can do in CorelDRAW? 

It really can't make the design "better" in this case because it's already a perfect design and it's a simple design so really you can't have a better fill than what it already has.

Simply put the software is no substitute for brains... I actually thought it might be but in reality for stone placement it places stones basically the same way as I do it in CorelDRAW from what I can see...

I will send you the artwork and my finished design via PM... 

The goal here is not to say my way is better... My goal is to understand what I'm missing out on... If Stone Cut Pro really is this wonder software... How do I make do what I want it to do and how will it save me time...

One of the biggest expenses is making the Rhinestone design... If I can save time I can make more money... So it only makes sense to seek out alternative ways to streamline the process.

Kevin


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Ok, here is where I disagree with you. Given the input parameters of the software you are using, IT DOES matter about stone spacing, etc. You may have engineered your macro where you can handle that on the fly, but these are parameters that the Stone Cut Pro require you to input, so that you can obtain the effect you need.

It is crucial to attempt to duplicate your design, using Stone Cut available parameters, to know the measurements and what size stones you wanted to use. Based on your information that the design is 5", and looking at the number of squares, I could still only guess at the size of each square. None the less, I was able to achieve that effect with a simple click, once I understood HOW you wanted to the squares to be filled.

I don't know how much she really works with the software, but I could see from the video, she wasn't familiar with what she was trying to do. That doesn't make it an ineffective software, just an ineffective user


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## fedoraoriginali (Aug 30, 2010)

For $35 you can buy the Macro "Drawstone" from corelvba. It does a lot eg: bitmap fills, outlines, matrix, island fills, multi stone size outlines and you can alter the stone sizes!
I have tried many programs (except DAS) and each one has it's strengths and weaknesses and every design after it being Rhinestoned needs to be tweaked.
I would rather waste $35 than $1000 wouldn't you? Unless you can prove to me that Stonecutter Pro 30 times better I know I have made the right choice.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

OK here is the actual artwork in CorelDRAW format... Click Here

Here is my finished design...

Here is the video I made on creating the design in CorelDRAW.

CorelDRAW Rhinestone - Checkered Flag - YouTube

My contention is a simple one... You cannot create the design in Stone Cut Pro to have it look just exactly like this one does without essentially building it in Stone Cut Pro the very way I did in CorelDRAW... That is my contention.. 

If I'm wrong... I'll buy everyone here a copy of Stone Cut Pro when I buy my copy!... 

(OK Just kidding about that part...)

Seriously though... Every example I gave her she could not produce anything remotely usable... More over I knew and she told me up front she wasn't the most experienced user... But isn't that was Stone Cut Pro claims to be anyhow?... You said it yourself... You don't want to know a graphics program... You just want to click and have something... Heck we all want that...

I would love to see your flag with Stone Cut Pro!

If you look at my finished design and your little graphic... They are not the same... You have 4 dots next to each other... My dots are staggered and they all line up creating a swoosh or a wave effect from left to right...

Now some might say why all the back and forth... If your way works for you, just use it! Well I will... But I like to educate myself too... If there is something I'm not seeing I appreciate anyone that will offer me insight to what I'm not seeing.. In the end once I see the light I would become the biggest advocate... Right now I'm the biggest critic...

My day job is programming software... I love it when a challenging customer comes over and says why should I buy your software... I can do that with Photoshop and actions... I say really?... Can you do this and this and this... And their eyes get as big as saucers! They are not as smart as they thought they were...

I will say this and it's gonna sound super crazy!

Every Rhinestone software I've seen is exactly identical!... From the $50.00 CorelDRAW Macro to the $1,500+ stand alone software programs...

What I mean by that is every programs core function placing Rhinestones are all basically the same... 

They all take an existing path or they make a path and place the stones on that path... That's it... There is nothing really magical at all about it... It's all mathematics. I have a line this long an object this size and a spacing of this... How many objects will fit and put that many objects in place.

So if you want to take the time... I would love to see your Stone Cut Pro Checkered Flag... The bright side... You'll have a new design for your library...

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

fedoraoriginali said:


> For $35 you can buy the Macro "Drawstone" from corelvba. It does a lot eg: bitmap fills, outlines, matrix, island fills, multi stone size outlines and you can alter the stone sizes!
> I have tried many programs (except DAS) and each one has it's strengths and weaknesses and every design after it being Rhinestoned needs to be tweaked.
> I would rather waste $35 than $1000 wouldn't you? Unless you can prove to me that Stonecutter Pro 30 times better I know I have made the right choice.


EXACTLY!... That's what I'm talking about... Now I don't care for DRAWStone myself but that is no matter... The point is well taken... DrawStone will do about 50% of the job... The day to day tasks we do when making Rhinestone designs... It's a bold statement I know because some would say are you crazy?... It does everything I need it to... That's really only because you have the tools you have and so you stick with those tools... If you had more tools say twice as many tools you would like use those tools as well.

But your point is for a minimal investment in DRAWStones you have the basics... Stone Cut Pro at $1,000 - $1,500 depending on who you are I guess... Has got to be some kind of fantastical program... They have 10 demonstrations on their website for an outdated version... Katie says they have more on their owners page and 35 videos on the install CD... I say this is all well and good... But based on the 10 outdated videos I see... The webcast you give... It's all fluff! The examples you show are the most basic of basic things... As soon as I enter a real world example... Things fell apart quick...

I'm anxious to see a real world examples that really work slick...

Now I'm off to try the OOBling demo! At least they have an actual demo to try... 

Kevin


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

fedoraoriginali said:


> ...I would rather waste $35 than $1000 wouldn't you? Unless you can prove to me that Stonecutter Pro 30 times better I know I have made the right choice.


Dora, again, my point as stated, is what is BEST for me may NOT be best for you. I would NEVER attempt to convince you something is BETTER just because it works for me, as I would NEVER knock a product because it is expensive.

I think Kevin has a valid question about whether or not HE can do somethings in DAS that he has been able to do on his own. Having no experience with Corel, I'd like to see if I can answer his question.

I like what I use, and I feel it was a good investment. That $1,000 software gave me the speed and agility to increase my sales in 2011 by 40%. Instead of spending an hour on a quote, I can do it in half the time. It took some learning time investment, but it was what I needed. Quite franky I would rather NOT waste ANY money, no matter how little it is


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

katruax said:


> ... The webcast you give... It's all fluff! The examples you show are the most basic of basic things... As soon as I enter a real world example... Things fell apart quick...
> 
> I'm anxious to see a real world examples that really work slick...
> 
> Kevin


I'm still waiting on your artwork sample Kevin, or did you not notice that I was able to duplicate your stone pattern? I have no problem giving your "real world example" a try. I just may learn something

Plenty of "real world" examples on my website and twice as many more not posted. I've actually attached a couple for you to go ahead and try.

Blackhawks - 45 mins - start to finish, including vectorization

Bulldog - 20 mins - start to finish including vectorization


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

allhamps said:


> I'm still waiting on your artwork sample Kevin, or did you not notice that I was able to duplicate your stone pattern?


I noticed you were not able to duplicate my stone pattern... LOL

I posted my link to my artwork a couple posts up...

would love to see your flag with Stone Cut Pro!

If you look at my finished design and your little graphic... They are not the same... You have 4 dots next to each other... My dots are staggered and they all line up creating a swoosh or a wave effect from left to right.

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

allhamps said:


> Plenty of "real world" examples on my website and twice as many more not posted.
> 
> Blackhawks - 45 mins - start to finish, including vectorization
> 
> Bulldog - 20 mins - start to finish including vectorization


See this is what I'm talking about... Bold statements you make... No one would argue that the example designs you posted are stellar... But there's a "catch"... It's just a finished designed... You could of spent 6 days on those each and we would never know the difference... I'm not calling you a liar by any means... But saying see this you can create this in minutes!... Um OK but how?... I probably couldn't do it in 20 minutes because I don't know how... I know the demos I was given yesterday were dismal

I can tell you this... There is no way for this complex of a design to be completed in CorelDRAW in 20 minutes... I'm not sure proper vectorization could be done in 20 minutes let alone the vectorization and stoning...

But if I'm DAS why on earth would I not use your example of the Bulldog... Actually stone that sucker out in Stone Cut Pro live... Do it in 20 minutes and you would have people LINED UP! Handing you money right and left! Even if the process really took a lot of know how to do I wouldn't care... If I can be shown that can be produced in 20 minutes start to finish I'm sold...

You sell transfers right?... How about I pay you $100.00 for a half hour of your time and you show me the process of that Bulldog in 20 minutes? We can use my GoToMeeting account.

Kevin


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

OK. A twist to this converstion:

1.) I downloaded the Corel image.
2.) Adjusted the horizontal size to 5". (It was a bit smaller originally.)
3.) Exported in jpeg format (300 dpi)
4.) Opened the jpeg in GemMaster
5.) Used the Line function with 0.05" distance value.
6.) Manually (and carelessly) pulled 26 lines in 3 minutes (!).

The flag was ready.

I didn't spend time for changing the color of the stones but it can be done in another minute or two.

The file is ready for our CAMS rhinestone placement machine. The image contains 236 stones. It is a 2 minutes-long job for the CAMS. If you put 9 images on the table it will last 15 minutes to create the 9 images.

Design: less than 5 minutes (as fast as in Corel if not faster)
Manufacturing: 2-3 minutes (much faster than making a template)

Tools: a Stupid GemMaster + a little brain


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

katruax said:


> I noticed you were not able to duplicate my stone pattern... LOL
> 
> I posted my link to my artwork a couple posts up...
> 
> ...


Send me the actual artwork, so I am not GUESSING. Obviously, if I don't have the actual artwork, I can only simulate what I "think" is going on, instead of being able to follow the lines of the vector work. You know that, so let's not play semantics here.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Whoa Carol!... I didn't mean to piss you off... I sent you the actual vector artwork in CorelDRAW?... I'm not sure what you wanted?... If you looked at my video when I did the design in CorelDRAW you will see I simply had a JPG which I also sent you in the zip file... I didn't have the vector artwork for the design... I just did the vector artwork for DAS to see if that helped in creating the design with Stone Cut Pro...

So I'm just guessing here as I've never used Stone Cut Pro... But I would assume if you only had the JPG version like with the bull dog example... You would take the JPG I gave you... Vectorize and stone... Now I have already made a perfect vectorized version for you... So I would assume you would use it to stone with Stone Cut Pro?...

I don't know?... That's why I'm trying to understand the process...

If you need something other than the vectorized version and the JPG version please let me know and I will send it to you...

Sorry for the confusion...

Kevin


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

allhamps said:


> Send me the actual artwork, so I am not GUESSING. Obviously, if I don't have the actual artwork, I can only simulate what I "think" is going on, instead of being able to follow the lines of the vector work. You know that, so let's not play semantics here.


Probably I am misunderstanding something. Am I?

The "actual artwork" is the jpg file about the flags. It is there; downloadable. The task is to create a rhinestone image with Stone Cut Pro. 

The result should look like the Corel version (shown also here). The design method should be better than the Corel method, and the time should be less than 8-10 minutes. 

Am I right?


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

api said:


> Probably I am misunderstanding something. Am I?
> 
> The "actual artwork" is the jpg file about the flags. It is there; downloadable. The task is to create a rhinestone image with Stone Cut Pro.
> 
> ...


The design itself doesn't need to be better than the CorelDRAW version as I think it's about as good as it gets... The purpose of the exercise is creating the same design in considerably less time using Stone Cut Pro... That's the whole reason I would be interested in the software. It could be $2,000 I could care less at the cost... If it can produce the example Bulldog in 20 minutes with an experienced user at the wheel it would be worth every single nickel of that $2,000 because short of handsetting each stone with CorelDRAW... That design cannot be done in an "automated" fashion of any sort with CorelDRAW.

Stone Cut Pro bills itself as an easy to use Rhinestone software where you can get results with little know how... For those with a little know how you can get great results and far less time...

I have a computer software I developed for Photoshop... I get users all the time that are "experts" with Photoshop that think they can do what my Plug-In can do... They can... I can just run circles around them using my plug-in because it does what they can do but it does it automatically and it works...

It's the same with Stone Cut Pro... I can use CorelDRAW with a $50.00 Macro or I can use Stone Cut Pro, OOBling etc etc... These stand alone programs bill themselves as the solution to and the automation to the process of Rhinestone template design.. But is their "automated" result up to the same quality and can you get the same quality of design with less know how and less actual time spent making the design....

For the flag design I did... I had to manually create each path for the stones to follow.. Total I manually created 15 paths... Not a huge deal... It did take some CorelDRAW know how... Not much but some... And it took a little time.. Again not much but some... 

My contention is there is no "automated" way in Stone Cut Pro, OObling etc to create the same result without taking the exact same steps I did in CorelDRAW... If one were to take the exact same steps I did in Stone Cut Pro for example... They would come up with virtually the same result... But the point of the exercise is not can we do the same steps and get the same results... It's to showcase the shortcut that Stone Cut Pro can offer us... Can we import a JPG like with did with CorelDRAW and produce a similar design of equal quality and save a fair bit of time in the process?

I don't know? From the demonstration I got from DAS yesterday I'm not sure?... Carol has the software, actually uses on a day to day basis so I think she's better positioned as an actual user to know.

I would invite anyone with Stone Cut Pro to join the discussion... Can you produce this design in say 6 minutes with Stone Cut Pro from a JPG? It took me about 12-15 minutes in CorelDRAW.

Kevin


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Ok, Kevin, I had a moment between real jobs, to try your Flag. First let me thank you Kevin for the rousing if not unlevel challenge. Attached is the RAW DAS attempt at matching your design. I've also attached a copy of the screen print showing the timing of it all.

I would like to point out, that you mentioned your finished design was 5" (don't know if that's width or height or both), but the artwork you suggested I use was only about 4.4" wide by 3.4" high. I'm a FAIR person, and since my only interest was to answer YOUR question, I used what you sent me.

Not yours exactly, and would need some cleaning, maybe about 2-3 minutes, but I'll take a ONE minute initial job with DAS anyday over what I've seen EVERYTHING else do.

Let me know when you've gotten a chance to run the ones I sent you through YOUR process. FYI the bulldog is all ss06 and 5.717x5.272. The blackhawk is 6.999x6.00 and is ss06 and ss10.

Happy Stoning


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

OK. So we proved that the task can be done MANUALLY. You did it Corel in 12-15 minutes; I did in GemMaster in 5-8. If I'd be real careful with the drawing I'd need a few more minutes. 

My statement is that - as of today - there is no such a software on the market which would be able to do the same design automatically as you did manually in Corel. 

We would need a much better algorithm than just
"give me the stone size, the distance, the vector object and I will do the outline and the fill".

In my opinion there are at least two problems with this approach. 

1.) We don't have the image in vector format to start with. Most people cannot use the Trace function in Corel or Illustrator. They don't have Vector Magic either. Just to convert a bitmap to vector properly is a huge problem.

2.) The fill function should be much more intelligent. There are multiple objects in a vectorized bitmap image and the fill should be able to "see the big picture" too, not just a single object. This can be real tricky. This is the field where the human brain is much more powerful than the machine. (That's why you have to recognize and type in the jagged text to a website to show that you are human and not an Internet robot.)

I think we have to wait until the demand will be high enough for the automated rhinestone software to get a company to develop a good algorithm for this difficult task. Until then we have to accept these mediocre attempts as "PRO" versions.

Sorry if it is difficult to understand what I want to say; my English is still work in progress.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello Carol,

Respectable results... 

Did you use the JPG that I sent you?... Because that's what I used when I did have my version because I didn't have the vector version...

Can you walk me thru the basic process you took to get the results you got?...

Like you import the JPG... Then Vectorize?... Then?... I see your setting you used there but I don't know if that was on the vector objects or not?...

If it only took 60 seconds it's an impressive result... But if you look at the demo that was done for me yesterday by DAS on the same design I think you can agree it was dismal... What she would so is try this setting try that setting and all that takes time to...

If you imported the JPG, Vectorized and entered these setting and bam in 60 seconds the design in very usable order... That's awesome... But if the end result if after you tried this and tried that and from the vector design... Than the 60 seconds isn't really a fair comparison...

So for the interest for all of us.. .Could you explain a little more of the steps one would need to take to import the JPG and produce the result you did...

Thank you,

Kevin


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

This is a quick Snipping from the GemMaster version with SS6 stones. Sorry for the image quality.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Beautiful impressive result... It did take a little know how and like you said, you had to create the paths manually... But once that was done it's a simple task to add the stones... But that process took you few minutes and was basically the same process I did in CorelDRAW...

With Stone Cut Pro Carol's result was done in 60 seconds... That's impressive... I have no idea what the steps were to get that result in 60 seconds but impressive none-the-less...

Hopefully Carol will explain a little more details... 


Kevin


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Kevin, the link you provided had a Corel Draw file. I can import .cdr into DAS so I used that instead of taking the .jpg and vectorizing it. That might explain the size difference.

I don't dispute you that the person you were dealing with in that video could not do it, but that wasn't your question. You wanted to know if it could be done, and it can. Can it be done by everyone using DAS? My answer would be yes, EVENTUALLY. DAS has a ton of features and it takes time and practice to master them. I have not mastered them all, I just happened to have a better idea of how to accomplish your design than the person you were dealing with.

That's the whole purpose of this forum, is to answer questions, give examples and help teach others. It doesn't matter what software you use, as long as you are able to become proficient at what you do.

What I did:

I imported your Corel file into DAS
I separated the parts
I did an "inline" of all the pieces
I selected the pieces I wanted to fill. I did this in two steps, no particular reason.
I chose the fill option with a raster type, and I think it was a 60 degree angle.
I hit the button and let DAS put in my ss10 stones.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

No, I didn't have to create a path and THEN "stoning it". In GemMaster it is one step. You can draw WITH stones. I just clicked on the top corner of the jpg flag, pulled down the cursor to the bottom with the stones already there.

I am also interested how can this image be done in 60 seconds. I hope we can learn something.

Thanks Carol in advance. I really appreciate your help.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

allhamps said:


> Let me know when you've gotten a chance to run the ones I sent you through YOUR process. FYI the bulldog is all ss06 and 5.717x5.272. The blackhawk is 6.999x6.00 and is ss06 and ss10.


Hello Carol... I've already conceded that there is no automation in CorelDRAW that is going to produce that design with that quality short of hand setting each stone... None that I know of anyhow... That's why I offered to pay you to show me how that design is done in 20 minutes... I would love to see DAS give me that demonstration... That demo yesterday was not pretty...

Kevin


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Test Results:


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

OK so an update from DAS... Doesn't look like they want to sell me a copy?... I talked with Katie again... She was personally offended by my posts... She says I was not kind to her nor DAS...

I wasn't out to slight anyone or any program.. I was a little taken back when she told me she doesn't think I'm interested in purchasing this software at all... I guess all this was just for fun then?...

One of the most expensive steps in the Rhinestone process is creating the Rhinestone design... As I told her I'm not playing games... If this software is going to simplify the process then I'm in... But I would really like to see the simplified process on a couple artwork examples. I don't want to see the finished product... I want to see each step along the way and then I'm convinced...

I can tell you a story from this morning... I was talking with someone in the industry... She says she was at a trade show and Craig pulled her aside to see a demo of Stone Cut Pro... He proceeded to show her a wolf design that apparently is used in their web casts?... After 20 minutes of stumbling and fumbling he couldn't get the design right... He stopped the demo and said well see this is the finished design... As impressive as I'm sure that design was... Seeing is believing...

I don't need to buy Stone Cut Pro... It's not the only product on the market... I was interested in the software because DAS are known as leaders in the industry... I have many of their products... Had the demo gone better I would of been the first to say PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS!

So it is what it is... Maybe I will get a call back maybe not?

I can tell you this.... When people publicly "criticize" my software that I spent years developing and am very proud of... I don't attack them... I simply prove them wrong or at least offer a different view and then let people make up their own decision... I'm not saying I was attacked... But I will tell you it doesn't feel good when a sales person essentially refuses to sell you a product... Now for full disclosure she did offer to have someone else work with me... But she was just going to take herself out of the situation... There is no "situation" from my point of view... I'm just a consumer wanting to understand how their product works to make a purchase decision. That's it...

Now I guess I will have to find someone else to "pick on".

Kevin


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

It seems that the emotions took over this subject, so I am OUT. 

Api


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## Knehmer (May 6, 2007)

I'm with Api...sounds like you were just looking for a reason not to like the DAS software and nothing was ever going to be right...


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Knehmer said:


> I'm with Api...sounds like you were just looking for a reason not to like the DAS software and nothing was ever going to be right...


Yep that's why I'm here... Just to start trouble...

Like I care about whether people think I like a particular software or not...

I offered Carol $100.00 to show me the Bulldog design start to finish... I'll offer $200.00 to see it.... Start to Finish in 20 minutes... Not because I have an ax to grind... Because I'm interested in understanding...

Is exactly these types of comments from people such as yourself that make me not even want to contribute.

I can't like or dislike a particular piece of software I've never personally used... OObling has a demo... Once I have used the demo I can determine if I like it or not... I don't have that option with Stone Cut Pro... So I have to rely on what others say about it and the few video tutorials they have on their website and the live demo I was given... That's all I have to go by...

Kevin


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

I appreciate you putting this info out there. When I spoke with DAS they weren't willing to give me a hands on demo. They simply told me to find a webinar on their site and watch it. They said it would answer any questions I had. Anyone can show you gorgeous end results.


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## Knehmer (May 6, 2007)

I'm sorry, it's been a tough week--not one, but two suicides in our small town. I was not referring to the discussion of software--it was the unforgiving bashing that started the thread, even when someone had a family emergency you couldn't really let that go. You can see that I'm not a frequent contributor and you are..so seriously do not stop on my account. I'm sorry that my comment makes you not wish to contribute...but your comments made me uncomfortable (probably shouldn't have read the start of this thread to start my day--or maybe they wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way).


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

I wanted to be out, but there is a misunderstanding here so I have to drop in again:

In my opinion the behavior of DAS was close to ridiculous. I watched the video; the presentation and the communication was unprofessional, the design result was useless. After that THEY were pissed off and accused a customer of being an "enemy"... 

I wanted to be out because I wanted to talk about softwares (is there a plural for software?) and algorithms, not peoples' behaviors.

In my opinion Kevin was demanding but correct. DAS couldn't keep up. Slick was very kind and constructive but the result with the AUTOMATED version is still worse than the manual setups. (See the results above.) It is definitely NOT Slick's fault. This is the state of the fill algorithms in this industry...


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

Krystle1981 said:


> I appreciate you putting this info out there. When I spoke with DAS they weren't willing to give me a hands on demo. They simply told me to find a webinar on their site and watch it. They said it would answer any questions I had. Anyone can show you gorgeous end results.



I had the same experience as you did and could not get much information about the software, so I purchased Oobling instead of DAS...


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

Guess we weren't important enough. I use Oobling as well and I'm very satisfied.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

OK Slick...

Here is my Bulldog... I named him Brutus... Nothing Auto Magically on this one... Ever stone is hand placed...


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Kevin,
I think your posts were very helpful and I've learned a ton reading them. I totally agree with you. I wouldn't spend $1k or even $50 bucks on software if it doesn't do what it claims or is just as good as software I'm already using. It seems that you asked them to prove that it does what it claims, and they could not do that. The fact that you shared it with us made them upset and emotional. I was also waiting for them or "anyone" to show their results" as I'm also in the market for rhinestone software. Unfortunately DAS isn't it. 
As you are very knowledgable in programming, please continue to post and let us know what you think about OOBLING. I downloaded their demo a couple days ago. I also purchased drawstones and rstones to get started until I find a suitable program. The problem I'm running across is, I don't see a difference in the macro's I've downloaded and the expensive software programs.
Insight anyone?


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Kevin I don't recall you offering me money for anything but never the less I don't want your money. I am not a DAS employee and will not do paid demonstrations of their software. They will accomodate you should the feel it's warranted. If there is a true interest in learning something here, the purpose of this forum, and not simply to continue a rant against DAS, then I will see if I can find the time to try and put together a video. I will be honest with you though Kevin, I am more concerned with moving on with my business than redoing somthing that is already available, as well as being very concerned about the ugly nature this thread has taken. Consider me a non-participant to this thread from this point.


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## Cathy91722 (Feb 26, 2010)

Each and every one of us has softwares we like and some we don't. Many of us have almost every single rhinestone software out as we are looking for the best for our purpose. Personally I have a mental block with Corel, yet there are those of you that swear by it and nothing else is "up to par" with it. That software that you are comfortable with and willing to learn it's idiosyncrasies will be what works for you. This particular thread kept me entertained most of the day watching to see just where it would go. Now it's just getting tedious.


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## DASBoss (Dec 11, 2008)

My latest experience with Kevin Truax.... I am the owner of Digital Art Solutions and I have a long history with Kevin. Cameron asked me stand in for him on a demo last week, as he had to rush to the emergency room to attend to a family member. Apparently this is bad customer service. At DAS, family comes first. He forwarded me the details of the appointment, I saw that the client was Kevin and based on my previous experience with him, I decided that I did not want to get involved with him. Since Cameron was unavailable, Kevin subsequently tracked down Katie Owen to provide him with a demo to persuade him that our software was better than his current technique in CorelDRAW. Without her knowledge, he recorded this demo and posted it on youtube. Incidentally, it is illegal under federal law to record video with sound or a phone conversation with an individual without their consent. Recording Phone Calls and Conversations | Citizen Media Law Project. In addition to being illegal, it is also a really crappy thing to do to someone. 
I do not know if it was Kevin's intention to humiliate Katie and damage DAS, but after viewing his interactions with Katie during the demo, that would be the most obvious conclusion. Katie is one of the kindest, most generous human beings you will ever meet. She took an hour out of her busy day as a commissioned sales person, to help Kevin who was not even her client. She was covering for a co-worker with a sick family member. Kevin put her on the spot, made her extremely uncomfortable, she did not have a good demo as she was rattled by him. He then posted his illegally recorded video on youtube and his subsequent commentary on this site. He even commented on how nice she was, why would he do this to her, what was his agenda? We are judged by our behavior, and you can draw your own conclusions regarding his. Under no circumstances will any member of our team choose to have any further interaction with Kevin Truax without an immediate apology to Katie. Katie is one of the true gems in our industry. She is beautiful person that has generously given herself to her clients and her co-workers. She is the most consistently praised member of our staff and has a devoted following of loyal clients that support her. She is one of the kindest people I know and I am proud to have her as a member of our team. I do not believe that this thread was about evaluating our software. If Kevin has a problem with me or Digital Art Solutions, he is welcome to call me at any time. I will not sit and debate Kevin on this forum and any further communication I have with him, will be either face to face or via telephone. Our staff, or myself personally will be happy to provide anyone a personal online demo of our StoneCut Pro software. They can judge for themselves. Craig Mertens.


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## designs by amir (Feb 1, 2012)

Wow! I've never thought i would ever hear about DAS I know Craig personally and he seems ok. I'm going to spend a lot of money with them in a few days. I'm going to drive over there because I live near them. All i want from them is Smart Designer X4.5 and their Digital Arts Vol. 1 and 2 and their Promo Studio 2. As far as the business grahics goes I'll be buying *Corel DRAW X5 $59.00*

*Software: Smart Designer X 4.5 $699.00*

*Introducing Sports Studio 2 499.00*

*Promo Studio Vol. 1 399.00*

*Digital Graphics Collection 1 399.00*

*Digital Graphics Collection 2 399.00*

*Elements Of Style Volume 2 599.00*

Action Illustrated has great cipart. Well wish me luck.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

DASBoss said:


> My latest experience with Kevin Truax.... I am the owner of Digital Art Solutions and I have a long history with Kevin.


Long history? What is our long history do tell? Unlike you I'm willing to be very public... Truth be told I can recall only one conversation with you many years ago about DRAWings.. You make it sound like I'm some troubled customer you've been dealing with for years...


You can see exactly what I've purchased over the years... I've spent $5,245.00 with them... In my book that is a lot of money and a valuable customer.




DASBoss said:


> Cameron asked me stand in for him on a demo last week, as he had to rush to the emergency room to attend to a family member. Apparently this is bad customer service.


This is not bad customer service... I do have to wonder however when I called for our scheduled appointment and your secretary answered and I asked to speak with Cameron and she told me he was gone for the day and I asked if she was sure because I had a 2:00pm appointment why it was she simply didn't explain to me that he had an unexpected family emergency. Seems reasonable?... I would of totally understood that and there would of been no problem things happen.



DASBoss said:


> He forwarded me the details of the appointment, I saw that the client was Kevin and based on my previous experience with him, I decided that I did not want to get involved with him.


If this is truly how you felt... Again I would ask why that simply was not conveyed to me when I called for our scheduled appointment why your secretary just didn't ask my name and then say oh you're Kevin Truax... Well Craig sys he's not interested in dealing with you given your past experiences with DAS... I would of been pissed as hell because I'm just a paying customer... But it's your business there really isn't much I could do about it... And that would of been that...



DASBoss said:


> I do not know if it was Kevin's intention to humiliate Katie and damage DAS, but after viewing his interactions with Katie during the demo, that would be the most obvious conclusion. Katie is one of the kindest, most generous human beings you will ever meet. She took an hour out of her busy day as a commissioned sales person, to help Kevin who was not even her client. She was covering for a co-worker with a sick family member. Kevin put her on the spot, made her extremely uncomfortable, she did not have a good demo as she was rattled by him. He then posted his illegally recorded video on youtube and his subsequent commentary on this site. He even commented on how nice she was, why would he do this to her, what was his agenda? We are judged by our behavior, and you can draw your own conclusions regarding his.


I couldn't agree more Craig... People can and will make their own judgments... I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. There is however a but... What he doesn't actually mention... After Carol posted her little example on my checkered flag and the Bulldog and Indian... I called Katie back to order the software!... LOL She refused to sell me a copy and told me what I was thinking in my head that I really had no intention of buying the software...



DASBoss said:


> Under no circumstances will any member of our team choose to have any further interaction with Kevin Truax without an immediate apology to Katie. Katie is one of the true gems in our industry.


I actually did apologize to Katie when I called her back a second time to order the program.. She came right out and asked why would I do such a thing to her and to DAS... I explained best as I could that my intention was not to put her down or DAS down... I've said in many posts that DAS has quality products... I've spent a lot of money with DAS already... There simply isn't much info on Stone Cut Pro on the website for the public to see. Thus all my questions...



DASBoss said:


> Our staff, or myself personally will be happy to provide anyone a personal online demo of our StoneCut Pro software. They can judge for themselves. Craig Mertens.


People will judge from themselves... But as you can see form the others that have been "brave" enough to post... I'm not the only one with "issues" regarding customer service... More specifically with Stone Cut Pro... Certainly we can't all be off our rockers can we?... I wonder what motive the others who have posted saying they couldn't get service or a demo on Stone Cut Pro could have?... I guess they too have some axe to grind?...

I will say this... Every single word I have posted here about my dealings with DAS is 100% factual... I will also tell you and I know many of you have already drawn your own conclusions... This was about the poor customer service I received and my desire to learn what available options there are to help with the creation of Rhinestone templates and nothing more... 

All you have to do is open your eyes and look around... Every single piece of Rhinestone on the planet is sorely lacking in what I call "Real World Examples" 

How are we to judge what software to purchase based on huff and fluff?... I for one would love to see a demo of that BullDog design.. My checkered flag with WinPC Sign... Stone Cut Pro, CorelDRAW, Funtime (Derivitive of WinPC SIgn), OObling and BlingIt (Derivitive of OObling)... Side by side... Maybe a few other design examples side by side... There are various demos out there for all these programs... Honestly I haven't watched all the demos at Ryonet on BlingIt but I'm going to... They seem at first glance to have the most tutorials...

I really take pride in the fact that I devote my time to learn my craft... I literally have spent HUNDREDS of hours reading nearly every single post every single response on this forum and others... I've watched so many YouTube videos I lost count... I'm like a sponge trying to get a firm handle and understanding of Rhinestones to make my business more successful....

To then be questioned that I have some hidden agenda or and axe to grind with DAS?... It's just dumb!

Trust me Craig I have no interest in going back and forth with you either... Because of you no one from the 480 area code is ever allowed to call me again!... LOL 

I'm just kidding... You or anyone is welcome to call from the 480 area code... But it is frustrating because honestly I'm telling you I really was and am interested in your software if I can be shown it will do what I would expect it to do for me... I wasn't happy with the way I was treated initially with my appointment with Cameron... I think anyone would of felt the same way.. I do feel it was fair to share my experience with others... I have a right to do that... I'm not the only one on here who has posted an unfavorable post about DAS... Had it simply been explained to me Cameron was out of the office with a personal emergency and that the next day had to fly out for Orlando ISS I would of not had to post anything here... Had it been explained to me you as an owner decided not to have me as a customer any longer... I probably would of posted here in frustration but it wouldn't had to of been so testy as it became... Honestly I don't feel it was me who made it so testy though.

What a turn around it would be if I become a happy user of Stone Cut Pro in the near future...

You can bet I will be emailing those privately who I may have offended including Katie... She was a sweet, sweet person and she did take the time to deal with me and I am appreciative of the time she spent with me.

Respectfully..

Kevin Truax


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

> How are we to judge what software to purchase based on huff and fluff?... I for one would love to see a demo of that BullDog design.. My checkered flag with WinPC Sign... Stone Cut Pro, CorelDRAW, Funtime (Derivitive of WinPC SIgn), OObling and BlingIt (Derivitive of OObling)... Side by side... Maybe a few other design examples side by side... There are various demos out there for all these programs... Honestly I haven't watched all the demos at Ryonet on BlingIt but I'm going to... They seem at first glance to have the most tutorials...



Kevin, 

Actually winpc was a derivitave from cadlinks signlab as you can see here on their site here : Signlab sign making software -- Everything the sign maker will ever need. There is also a demo listed on cadlinks site that you can download and try for yourself. I did this long ago when winpc first came out, and I figured out that it was actually a software made by cadlink.


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## cadart (May 4, 2009)

Kevin, way to come out with the olive branch !!! Larger companies have to realize their first line of interaction with a client, past present or future is usually the guy or gal answering the phone. Many times I have had employees slam down a phone cursing, face red and hot as hell !!! I can walk over to them and say "thank you for hanging up first!" before that outbreak. The client on the other end thinks he/she just had a wonderful experience. Of course there is that time or two the things spiral out of control and then its mop up time. I think thats where you guys are now, so good luck.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

sunnydayz said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Actually winpc was a derivitave from cadlinks signlab as you can see here on their site here : Signlab sign making software -- Everything the sign maker will ever need. There is also a demo listed on cadlinks site that you can download and try for yourself. I did this long ago when winpc first came out, and I figured out that it was actually a software made by cadlink.


Oh wait Kevin, I was wrong here, winpc was actually the original funtime, I have that one too. The only difference in funtime and winpc is the drivers.


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## designs by amir (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm so excited to be able to go to DAS to get my software! Finally! I have been looking at the training videos and I"m so excited I didn't buy this years ago. I guess I wasn't ready. But Craig has put my mind at ease and I'm ready to finally start my t-shirt business. He along with the rest of DAS are professionals and I can't wait to meet them. The smart designer X4.5 is my missing key to success. Anyway wish me luck!.


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## DASBoss (Dec 11, 2008)

I sincerely appreciate Kevin's apology to Katie. As I said earlier, any further conversation I have with Kevin will be offline between the two of us. There seems to be some confusion regarding videos on StoneCut Pro. There are 16 videos on the software on the main product page. StoneCut Pro: Rhinestone Transfer Design & Production Software 
There is also a one hour product launch webcast on the product page and over four hours of archived webcasts on our public webcasts page: Free Online Training: Corel Draw, Rhinestone Transfers, Direct to Garment Printing We have five live webcasts on rhinestoning with StoneCut Pro between now and the middle of March. I am personally conducting the webcast on our "trade up program" on February 23rd. There is tons of information on our system online and we conduct personalized online demos every day.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Yep.... Smart Designer is a slam dunk! I have it too! You have to get to know the software... Lots of buttons to push... But once you know what you are doing... It's sweet...

Kevin


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## designs by amir (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes I'm blown away by the design of it. I think with all of the Webinars that Craig has put on I think I can figure it out. It is Goof Proof! All you have to do is just read the manuals and watch the Tutorials! I can't wait to get mine. I will be visting Arizona very soon to pick up my copy along with other programs that you have. Craig and DAS has really open up my mind and my eyes to all the Possiblilites of the programs. I Know there are not any other programs to even come close to yours. I'm sorry I missed the ISS show in Jan in Long Beach. But, the NBM show is what I really want to go to.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

cadart said:


> Of course there is that time or two the things spiral out of control and then its mop up time. I think that's where you guys are now, so good luck.


I'm happy to report that the mop bucket has come out... But it has week old dirty water in it! Darn it!

From Craig via email.. 

"Kevin, I will politely ask you once to remove the youtube video that you illegally recorded and posted without the consent of Katie Owen. I am shocked that you would record someone and post a copy of the recording without their consent. Are you not aware of the legalities of this and your potential exposure? You can either leave the evidence of this illegal recording on youtube, or I can forward the link to our attorney. I have no desire to have any further involvement with you or debate you on the forum. I would respectfully ask that you delete the youtube video and apologize to Katie for misleading her and posting the video. What a crappy thing to do to to one of the nicest people you well ever meet. Not that it means anything to you, but she was in tears over this. Craig"


Why, Why, Why Kevin... Why do you keep going?... STOP ALREADY! 



It's the devil inside of me!... He makes me do it...


People I'm honestly not out to hurt a sole! I truly want to learn! If their is a company out there with stellar products and stellar customer service to back it up... I want to know... If there is a company out there with a stellar product and so, so customer service I want to know... If their is a company out there with piss poor products being touted as "the next best thing to sliced bread"... and it really isn't... I want to know... If there is a company out there with a poor product and really poor customer service I want to know... It saves me the hassle... Or at least gives me a heads up... We shouldn't have to fear "legal" action for sharing our experiences... 



Was it "illegal" for me to record a software demonstration and then post that software demonstration for others to see as well?.. Um... Maybe? Technically... But that is why we have courts and judges to decide such things... You see recording "conversations" is a bit of a gray area... What is "legal" in Iowa may not be in Arizona... or Vice Versa... I mean... You guys don't remember the whole Linda Tripp thing? ( I understand there is a new documentary coming out that may refresh our memories... )



OK I steered off course a little.. LOL


Here 's the thing... It's my understanding the spirit of this forum is to share information and personal experiences... I talked with Cameron a month ago when I first started about my interest in the software... I educated myself... Watched every video there was to watch... Read every post there was to read... Now I have some knowledge to ask the right questions... I call back... I want this software can you do a live demo with a few of my graphics... I already knew how I did them in CorelDRAW... Now educate me on a couple really simple designs how Stone Cut Pro is going to simplify my life... Cameron is away Katie Steps in...


Katie you'll do a demo for me? You're a doll... Thank you! I record the session... Why?... Was it because I wanted to "catch her"... Was it because I wanted to cast DAS in a bad light because of an experience years ago?... Maybe?


Maybe though I recorded it to have the information to review over an over again at a later date for myself so when I actually had the software in hand.. I could do just what she did and get the same stellar results she demonstrated and learn from her... I mean it's possible right?... Can anyone really read someones mind what their motive really is?... What can't it be innocent?...


Well the demo didn't go well sadly... I think we can agree on that for those that saw the demo... But for others who are considering the very same software the information I shared wasn't valuable?... It was one bad demonstration out of I'm sure countless fantastic ones... Only I haven't seen the fantastic ones to judge... For me to have a basic understanding of the software it's easier for me to take a design I have already done... I know how I did it... I know how long it took... I know how much knowledge it took... 



Now give me another piece of software... Let me understand the process with it... Less time... More know how required? More time but required less know how? More time and More know how?.. What is the deal? Then I can more easily judge what's best for me... Keep doing the same as I have been as I can produce the design with my method... Or switch to another product because of the time it saves me?...


That's all this was about... LEARNING!... Honestly that's all it was about... If I really had an axe to grind and wanted to run DAS thru the mud... Why did I wait a month after first talking with Cameron on my initial inquiry?


I hope those that read this thread get some useful information good or bad...


I applaud the moderators up to this point as this is not a "nice" thread but it is full of what I think is valuable information for the people to decide... People can read it or not agree with it or not... But letting them decide for themselves...


There is nothing intentionally malicious I can assure you of that... I know you can't really read my mind... But it's true... It's just information... Take from it what you will...


Kevin


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

designs by amir said:


> Wow! I've never thought i would ever hear about DAS I know Craig personally and he seems ok. I'm going to spend a lot of money with them in a few days. I'm going to drive over there because I live near them. All i want from them is Smart Designer X4.5 and their Digital Arts Vol. 1 and 2 and their Promo Studio 2. As far as the business grahics goes I'll be buying *Corel DRAW X5 $59.00*
> 
> *Software: Smart Designer X 4.5 $699.00*
> 
> ...


Action Illustrated does have some great clipart. Their team is also great to deal with. I would consider Action Illustrated as well before dumping all your money in DAS. You can always give them a call, or find their booths at just about any convention in our industry.


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## taricp35 (Dec 10, 2008)

In certain States, it is legal to record a person as long as one person involved gives consent. For example in the State of GA, if I am recording a conversation between two people and I am one of the people involved in the conversation, I can give myself consent to record the conversation. No laws have been broken. I know this for a fact based on a current case I am involved in where I recorded a cop. 

@DASBoss I think you need to search the State laws in the Sate in which Kevin resides before you start making claims that the recording is illegal. From the link you posted


> Federal law and many state wiretapping statutes permit recording if one party (including you) to the phone call or conversation consents. Other states require that all parties to the communication consent.


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## DCans (Nov 21, 2009)

Kevin

Just to let you know, I did pass on your message to Cameron on Friday afternoon at the show.
I did not know about your live demo when I passes it on.


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## leapoffaith (Nov 8, 2009)

Who cares if secretly recording a video is legal or not in your particular state? It's a crappy thing to do. End of story. 

Whatever side you fall on this, it's just plain ol' wrong to have someone sincerely trying to help you, and secretly record it and post on youtube. People who do this type of thing ruin things for those of us who are truly seeking help. Next time I call DAS and the person who should be helping me is unavailable, you think Katie is going to be eager to step in and help? I doubt it! I will add that she has, in fact, helped me before and was very helpful. But if I were her, I'd never help anyone over the phone again! Thanks for that. 

Another thing.......if this was truly about trying to educate yourself, then what was the purpose of posting it on youtube? Don't bother answering that. I already know the answer. 

If DAS has such awful customer service and crappy software, why don't you just purchase somewhere else? That's certainly what I would do.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

If we back up and look at what my initial post from the start was about... It has nothing to do with their software. 

What was it about?... It was about the way I was treated initially by DAS... These companies should realize that people do talk... And when you treat one customer badly they are even more likely to talk no?...

Can it really even be argued?... I had a scheduled appointment on Tues. at 2:00pm. I call sorry Cameron is not here. WHAT! But we have a scheduled appointment... I didn't get any call or email or explanation from anyone canceling the appointment... Sorry he's not here that's it... So I wait all the next day for a return phone call or email... Nothing... I call back... Cameron in... NOPE sorry he's gone for the week at a tradeshow... WHAT! So basically I was left at the alter.... No explanation, no nothing... Now I have to wait a week for him to get back to me?... Can it really be argued that's bad business? Cameron may of had that emergency but that really is no reason not to communicate that to me when we did have a scheduled appointment... I am a current customer... I have spent thousands of dollars with your company.. It's now how I expect to be treated.

Now Katie was "nice enough" to step in to do a demo... But um unless I'm missing something here... Is it totally unreasonable for me to not expect just that?... Why should I have to wait a week to get the information I need to make an informed purchase decision if there is someone available who can answer my questions now? I own a software business.... If someone has a question about my software I don't want them to wait a week for someone to get back with them.

I don't look at what Katie did as anything so special... She's in sales... It's what she gets paid to do... Whether she gets the commission Cameron that's of no concern to me... I had questions that I was looking to have answered... Nothing more than that...

If you critics would look at my posts here... What are they primarily about?... 75%-90%... All sharing of information... Isn't that what this forum is about? Good or bad... Share your experiences so others can learn from them and grow their businesses? I have asked a question here or there... But primarily it has been sharing demonstration after demonstration after demonstration that I have created for anyone who is interested in learning from them...

You can think I had some back door agenda but I think my record speaks for itself and honestly it really pisses me off that I have spent my time to share what I have learned and my experiences and then be vilified that I had some ulterior motive.

Years ago... 2009!

A similar post about DAS and their business practices by a well respected member and moderator of this forum.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t97880.html


You can see their situation... The reaction by DAS and then the feedback from others who had their own beefs on top of that... 

Take a look at the post above... There was an issue there... He never actually directly commented on those people's issues either... So there is a pattern there...

This is a open forum and people are free to express whatever opinion they have... If you think it was low down that I shared the live demo I was given... OK then it was low down in your mind... I for one would be very appreciative however if I was looking at making a purchase on a piece of software and saw a live video demonstration of that software that was not available elsewhere good or bad...


In business we all have that case or two every now and again that goes sour... To me what makes a really great business... Is how they handle those situations when they come up... Craig's initial position... Make me look like the rotten evil one... Make me out to the problem customer he has been dealing with for years. He can disagree with the sharing of the live demonstration... But at the core of the post initially is how I was treated... He never actually addressed that... I would of liked him to have taken the high road... He could of simply stated... While I don't agree with Kevin's sharing of a live video demonstration without our consent... We as a company did drop the ball and should of had better communication with him why Cameron was not able to keep his appointment... But instead... He leads with... "My latest Experience with Kevin Truax" Like I somehow did him wrong when really... We've only actually had one or two conversations about a single piece of software I purchased from... That's it...

Now I'm going to go eat some rhinestone stones so I can make pretty poo too... LOL

Kevin


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

Good to know about recording laws. I feel the same way as Kevin when it comes to recording webinars or tutorials to rewatch later on. Sometimes I start a webinar and have to walk away for a bit or maybe I don't remember everything that was covered. I have no problem recording it to watch back later. As for posting it on YouTube, it depends on the intent. If he was simply showing that the software couldn't do what he asked, then what's the problem? I don't think he was trying to humiliate her. He was showing that he asked someone who is a sales representative of the company to show him how to do something before he purchased it, and to his standards, they didn't prove it could do what he wanted.

Go onto YouTube and look for reviews of other products. There are tons of them. I know what some of you will say..."Why did he have to record her?” My guess is that if they gave him a demo to use himself, he would have recorded himself doing it showing that it could or could not be done. If DAS or someone using the DAS software can make it do what Kevin wants it to do, I’m sure they would create a simple video showing that it can be done. I know he also mentioned trying out the OOBling Pro demo, and I hope it can do what he wants. Maybe he'll make a video of it and post that it worked or didn't work for him as well. If he can’t make it do what he wants, maybe I’ll take a shot at making it work.

After viewing a few of Kevin's post, I can see where he comes from. He's an Engineer and likes to see how things work and function. I'm the same way and like to dabble with lots of software, hardware, and processes to see how they work or which will work best for me. I, like him, also like to simply learn new things. People like him can provide good feedback on their experiences when they come out and say..."This is how it worked for me"...or "Look what I found will also work to do this job". Innovators are what keep new products and ideas coming out and keep businesses on their toes. There are plenty of people out there who used to buy some material or products to find later that something else works better or cost cheaper and they switch products. It's just part of the business. Small business owners need to cut costs or find new methods to keep their business profitable.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

To be fair and for full transparency... Craig from DAS did email me and did offer to give me that live demonstration I was seeking from the start personally... So that was nice... As a software business owner I know it's hard to swallow ones pride and attempt to satisfy a customer even when you feel like you have been ran over and even feel there was an ulterior motive at hand... 

That offer did come with a couple restrictions however... First he asked me to apologize to Katie... I already had attempted to do that when I called her back the second time to order the software after Carol had posted her examples here... She was upset and graciously stepped aside and said she would have someone else contact me shortly which was super classy on her part. Being she took things so personally and it wasn't meant to be personal at all it really goes to her character... Had I been hurt like she was I would of probably just hung up on me... I did later writer her an email as well apologizing.. 

Craig also asked I remove the YouTube video... I did even though technically... There was no need to... I was well within my rights to post that demonstration.. It's perfectly legal in Iowa to do so...

Craig also asked that I remove post 60... He didn't care that I shared an email that he sent me privately... And while he might not care for it... It's within my right to post it if I want... I don't actually need his consent... But really he's missing the bigger picture... It's really not about that there is a problem... It's how you react to fix the problem that matters...

He can say anyone can contact him for a demo... But in posts 41 and 44 people had issues doing just that... Not to mention the Private Messages I received...

I hope he does call me... I hope he blows my mind with how Stone Cut Pro is going to simplify my life... If it happens.. I can promise you one thing... I will be 100% factual of my experience... Maybe I won't post the video demonstration though... LOL But I will share my experiences for all to learn from it what they will good or bad....

If he doesn't cal... Well... He doesn't call... He can look at me as a liability or an asset... I hope he chooses to have me as an asset... Time will tell...

Kevin


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

This thread seems to be getting way out of hand, and is getting to the point where it's way beyond what this forum is supposed to be about. 

It's gone passed the original intent of sharing an experience with a company (which happens all the time...both good and bad).

No company has a 100% perfect record. There's going to be an unhappy customer somewhere along the line. We're all in business, and sometimes there are misunderstandings, miscommunications, and sometimes customers and companies aren't good fits or a product and a customer isn't a good fit, or sometimes a company (made up by real people just like us), just messes up. 

How a company deals with those situations is more important than the fact that an issue came up. 

Somewhere along the line in this thread, it got the feeling that it went passed just "sharing", and started to feel more like trying to "prove something". I honestly would like to believe that probably wasn't the intent, but when it gets to the point of sharing full copies of private emails and recording someone who is trying to be helpful without their consent and posting that on a public forum, that's just the _impression_ it gave. I don't know of the legalities, but I do know how it *seems*.

Yes, this forum is about sharing information, but it's also meant to be a _friendly_ place for people to be able to visit. That means for both customers and companies.

It's not an easy goal to have, and sometimes we don't always reach it, but I think it's a worthwhile goal. 

I'm probably pretty biased, but I think this forum is unlike almost any other in that respect  Members are encouraged to post and share their opinions and experiences, whether they have 1 post or 1000 posts. I think that friendly atmosphere is what has helped this forum grow to the great community it is today. That's why, with your help, I try not to let things get out of hand here as much as humanly possible while still trying encourage the open sharing of information. 

Friendly has a few meanings. It means that new members won't get flamed just for being new and asking a question. It means that it's a friendly environment to ask questions of your peers without feeling like you're going to get spammed or "sold to" with the replies (hence the no self promotion guidelines). 

It also meant that the forum is friendly to companies (again, people). Whether they are members of the forum or just a random company that gets recommended, this was never meant to be a place to settle a vendetta against a company or trash a company (hence the no company bashing guidelines). 

We all want honest opinions and experiences shared. Good or bad. 

But there's a difference between sharing an experience and turning it into some kind of mission. 

Whether that mission is to continuously show the company in a bad light or whether it's continually posting about the same company over and over again almost as if you're posting ads for that company, there is a definite point where things go to far. I get the fun job of trying to make that call. 

Some cases are more blatant than others, but too far in either direction and the actual goal of the forum (sharing useful information in a friendly environment) is hurt. Some say "just let it be and let the chips fall where they may", but I've seen first hand that it just doesn't work. Online or offline. A neighborhood with a lot of broken windows will beget more broken windows and people will rush to leave the area. A neighborhood that looks out for each other is just a better place to hang out.

Sorry to get long winded, but I really care about this place. 

I talked to dozens of people this weekend at ISS Orlando that really care about this place too. They use the forum to research products to buy, get answers in their time of need, connect with their business peers, and use the forum in so many other wonderful ways that I never could have imagined.

I said all that to try to help explain why I'm closing out this thread.

I'm not pointing fingers, but from reading through the posts, it sounds like things have moved forward from the original issue. Apologies have been made, some misunderstandings have been cleared up and some good information was shared. I'd hate to see the thread devolve back into something less helpful from here. 

If there are further specific questions about the software (or any software or product), please feel free to start a new thread. 

*Let's try to be nice to each other though and remember we're all here for the same thing...to learn and share* 

*Edit:* yes, some posts have been moved out of this thread. Most of them were replies to a post that seemed way off topic for the thread, but it wasn't a matter of a difference of opinion. So the post that solicited the responses were removed (this thread really isn't about recording legalities) and the responses to that post didn't make sense afterwards. There are *lots* of opinions here and I may not agree with them all, but that's NEVER why anything would get moderated. If anyone has any questions about this thread or ever has questions about how the forum runs (or has heard something that doesn't seem right), feel free to send me an email or PM at any time.


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