# copyright for now?



## tone1tees (Dec 24, 2009)

hey guys have a bit of a problem,i started a limited eddition apparel company,call( FOUR-T's ) the thing is i have, more then one brand im trying to put out, but only had money to get one brand trademark,so far so i was thinking maybe i would jus get the rest copyrighting for now an til i get my money right to get every thing trademark what do ya'll think? p.s and would that even help me.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

I'd spend my money on something practical rather than protect a new-born brand. It's just a question of priorities.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

What is your reasoning for copyrighting and trademarking?

Keep in mind, registering your brand name, logo and designs are not going to automatically prevent anyone from stealing it. You will need to actively enforce your registrations by issuing cease and desist letters and/or suing those who infringe. And that will take money. And if you can only afford one trademark application, then you can't afford legal fees to sue people.

So as Dave said, put your money into other areas of your business, like production or marketing.


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## wayneG (Dec 26, 2009)

Trademark - when indicated by the superscript capital letters TM provide a minimum of two years protection, you are telling the world that is my logo, so hands off. It is as good as a registered traded trademark. It's in the rules to give people time to complete the paperwork necessary for a registered trademark (the capital R in a circle). You are telling people this is mine and I will defend it, however be careful about including public domain material, it may nullify your claim. Examples of trademarks are: Coke; Microsoft; iPhone; company logos; product logos; etc.

Copyright - it is completely different from trademarks. It is protection for creative works: Books, Articles, Paintings, art work, etc. Indicated by a circle surrounding a captial C. For example, (c) 2010 by wayneG (pretend that () is a circle). It is a warning to the honest world and establishes your rights of ownship.

Now, if something takes off and starts making lots of money, register it as quickly as possible.

There are lots of ways to defend, trademarks and copyright that do not cost a lot of money. In most cases, an American or European Company with not produce knockoff. Asia is another story, the solution is the Federal Trade Comission, they can provide a lot of help in defending against knockoffs.

As a business, trademarks and copyrights should always be used. If you do not use them, then you have zero standing in court.

How much time does it take to put (C) 2010 by "your company name" on artwork. (remember superscript C with a circle.)

good luck


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

...if Nike had bothered to trademark it would stop all the knock-offs (not). And Nike have big lawyers.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

wayneG said:


> Trademark - when indicated by the superscript capital letters TM provide a minimum of two years protection, you are telling the world that is my logo, so hands off. It is as good as a registered traded trademark. It's in the rules to give people time to complete the paperwork necessary for a registered trademark (the capital R in a circle). You are telling people this is mine and I will defend it, however be careful about including public domain material, it may nullify your claim. Examples of trademarks are: Coke; Microsoft; iPhone; company logos; product logos; etc.


Anyone can use the ™ symbol, it is simply a public claim to the mark. It is not necessary to have a registration or even a pending application to use the ™ symbol, so the claim may or may not even be valid. It is not as good as a federal registration and should never be considered a substitute for one. And the only way to tell anyone "hands off" or "this is mine and I will defend it" is to send a cease and desist letter. Otherwise, there are always risks of people being dishonest. A mark, whether it is a ™ or ®, will not stop most people from bootlegging if they really want to. But a lawsuit will....


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## wayneG (Dec 26, 2009)

PositiveDave said:


> ...if Nike had bothered to trademark it would stop all the knock-offs (not). And Nike have big lawyers.


Nike is a registered trademark. But, even Nike cannot fight foreign governments that endorse and support companies producing knock-offs. This is where the Federal Trade Commission and U.S. Customs come into play. Part of their job is to catch knock-offs coming into the country, destroy them, and charge the importer.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

And with Nike (big $$) in that spot, to go back to the OP's situation at hand, it does not make sense to drop money on a TM you can't take to court to protect. Nor the copyright. But that's just one girlz opinion, not advice to be followed. Advice in these matters should come from the trained professional. 

Please, Tone, seek a lawyer when you need legal advice. These are opinions, some very educated, but by the ensuing debate in this thread, you can see, opinions or levels of understanding of "what means what" do vary from person to person.

Number one suggestion, go to and spend time at:

U.S. Copyright Office
www.trademark.gov

One of the first things you will learn is that you are practically using the terms interchangeably, and they are two completely separate things.

Copyright "helps" you "protect" your designs. I refuse to say copyright protects your designs, as it doesn't. Anyone can steal your work, at any time. The copyright gives you much more legal weight in a court of law to stop the other party. But, you can have a design copyrighted, and it still can be stolen. If you do NOT have the funds to have a cease and desist letter drawn up, followed by a court date if that does not work, then your copyright will not help you.

Btw, you automatically have copyright once a design is in it's fixed and completed form. Filing only makes it official that in court, you have a much, much greater chance at defense of it. 

Let the lawyers begin, and the deepest pocket win!! 

Trademark is the company logo or service mark. To file, the website says it usually must be shown that a trademark, service mark or logo has a history of being attached to that brand. Go see the site. It will help you with many of your questions, and help fill in the gaps.

You could take that money and have some shirts printed!


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## tone1tees (Dec 24, 2009)

so ya'll are saying i should jus put my other brand out to? and worry about the bootleg later.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

tone1tees said:


> so ya'll are saying i should jus put my other brand out to? and worry about the bootleg later.


I would suggest launching all of your brands, focus on selling as many shirts as you can, and not worry about bootlegs at all. In the event you do get bootlegged, your attorney will advise what to do.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Do you know you can copyright a whole "book" of designs for the same price as one?

And the last I looked, that was around $35 if you do it thru the copyright.gov site I gave you the link to? 

It's not that much $, will cover what you really are looking to cover, and let's you get on with establishing your brand. Once you get large enough for someone to want to impersonate you by stealing your Logo, you'll already have the money to TM it anyway.

Copyright if you like, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Go to the site, go to the site, go to the site, hahaa! You will like what you read, you will use what you learn. It's not rocket science, you'll be fine. The site is very user friendly, easy to read. Best wishes.


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## tone1tees (Dec 24, 2009)

thanks alot guys thats what im going to do,i have to many good brands im holding back on to wait ya'll are right im going ahead b4 my concpect get old and stell/lol


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Good for you, Tone. Good luck, best wishes!


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

tone1tees said:


> thanks alot guys thats what im going to do,i have to many good brands im holding back on to wait ya'll are right im going ahead b4 my concpect get old and stell/lol



I have to agree with everyone else here, unless you have the funds to sue someone, trademarking now is not going to do you any good. The only thing it is good for, is if you have the funds to defend it in court. Copyright all of your designs on one collection and print some shirts  invest your money in what you can make money on right now, not invest in something you cannot afford to protect 

Then if the designs do well, by all means trademark the brand 

I see a lot of people spend money on trademarking only to find that their vision was not successful and they wasted the money on a trademark they never end up using for long. Wait till it proves itself by selling shirts and then invest in trademarking the brand name.


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

If you come up with a BRAND that you want to
protect and feel that it will grow into a business 
entity that will generate revenue over the long
haul AND you can effort the $375 to apply for
the federal trademark then I say DO IT.



Just because 20 people tell you not to doesn't
make it a wise business decision. We are talking
about your business and if you wish to look at
it like a small T-Shirt business then that is all
it will be. 

There are numerous hidden costs in setting up
any business. There are deposits, licenses and
filing fees. A clothing line is one of the least
expensive entities to get up and operational
so the costs of protecting your brand should
always be considered.



There are several reasons to get that ® next 
to your brand name. Some may never understand 
it's importance and so be it.

Do you homework and look into it further.

Decide if your brand or business name is important
to you and what steps you will take to protect it.

Think about where your business and brand will
be in 10 years.

Think about who you are getting advice from and
where it is coming from. You can get directions
from a bum on the street but will they get you
to where you want to go?

Does the PBR (professional Bull Riding) have a
federal trademark?

Did the PBR start off small with a group of 
people who now enjoy the wealth from the
merchandising with their logo on it?




Look at all the major established brands out there
and ask yourself one question..

WHY do THEY have a registered Trademark?


Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm


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## Charms4all (Jan 29, 2007)

what exact paper do you fill out to protect all your designs in one shot?


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Back to the topic at hand, if money is an issue at this time then you need to spend that money in a manner that yields immediate profit that can then be reinvested back into the company by either repeating the process or another project that accomplishes the same thing- quick cash. Trademarks and copyrights are at the bottom of the list of importance at this time. It'd be about the equivalent of buying a gun but not the ammo since you do not have the means to enforce any infringements.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

Under current U.S. copyright laws just by creating a design you have some protection. Not everything we create needs a registered copyright. Don't waste your money until do some research and please don't make decisions based on what you read in a forum.


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