# am i pricing too high



## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

ok so what i have run into is that it seems like everyone is just undercutting each other here in town. I had some one that came to me and asked about 20 shirts one color on the front and one color on the back. I said 8 bucks a shirt. I then found out that another shop in town is going to do it for 6 bucks a shirt. they wanted to use a black gildan 2000 shirt with pink ink. i figured i would have to undercoat in white and then apply the pink so with time and printing coast i thought 8 bucks was a great deal...and i wasnt even goning to charge a step up fee or nothing...

can someone chime in and let me know what they would do this job for? where i may be going wrong and so forth....also what is a good profit per shirt?


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

There is so much capacity out there and so many desperate people, prices have been driven down.....


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

royster13 said:


> There is so much capacity out there and so many desperate people, prices have been driven down.....


 
yeah that is what i am seeing. i forgot to mention that the shop that is going to print the shirts has a 36 shirt minimum but they are going to do anyways? that is crazy. why have a minimum if you will do less? just to ask you where would you be on printing this kind of job? what kind of price would you have quoted?


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

You need to understand your overhead and then make sure you mark up your jobs with a high enough markup that will allow you to achieve a high enough gross margin to ensure you a viable profit.

Then you work hard to find customers that you can sell your work at those margins. If you have no sales training read a few sales books and try and incorporate some salesmanship when dealing with customers. This might allow you to better show the benefits for them when dealing with you. 

In these types of situations when talking price with the customer try and shift the conversation to the total price in these situation, instead of just a per shirt dollar amount. If you are talking about the benefits of dealing with your company and the service you will offer it is better to justify only a $40 difference in their overall $160 "investment' then arguing about $2.00 per shirt.

You must realize that you need to work towards building your business with the required gross profit margins and not waste your time creating work and expense for yourself that would be unprofitable. The competitor that was $6.00 may have lower overheard and achieving his required GM, or maybe he just doesn't understand his GM and expenses and is slowly running himself out of business. Either way, it really can't be your focus. Your focus must be on building sales where you need to be. 

Also by understanding your overhead and required margins, you will be prepared to know exact how low you can discount if is important to consider matching a price. Don't do it if the numbers don't justify it.

Lastly, I know how frustrating ans disheartening it can be to be excited about thinking you have a sale only to have a competitor low ball and steal it away. As hard as it is, try and remove your emotions from your decision making process. It is business and you need to know your numbers and make your decisions using logic not emotions. Getting in the habit of doing so will make it much less frustrating for you as you move forward (and more profitable).

Good luck


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

Louie2010 said:


> You need to understand your overhead and then make sure you mark up your jobs with a high enough markup that will allow you to achieve a high enough gross margin to ensure you a viable profit.
> 
> Then you work hard to find customers that you can sell your work at those margins. If you have no sales training read a few sales books and try and incorporate some salesmanship when dealing with customers. This might allow you to better show the benefits for them when dealing with you.
> 
> ...


 
thanks for the reply. yeah i do understand where i have to price to make a profit and you are right i can not go below this point. I am luck that my over head is low but i want to make it worth my while to print a job a s well. i guess i just have to find that balance. i have moved on from this situation and am trying not to look back at it...lol...i was just wondering if from a overall look where my price sits...i mean i called around town and i seem to be in the middle but just looking for input! thanks


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

That's great, it sounds like you have a real handle on your business. Good for you.

Hey everyone needs to vent once in awhile


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## HighTechBusiness (Sep 18, 2008)

Louie2010 has it right...

Also think about giving a discount to place your logo on the sleeve of each tee. That way you get to advertise on each garment and the customer gets a discount! That's a win-win for all.

We give clients FREE folding, bag & sealing to put our logo on their apparel. 
Just make transfer sheets (100's) in both black and white to go on every color garment. 

We get lots of business this way. I hope this helps.


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## kirkmansigns (Jun 22, 2007)

Price your shirts so that you make money. At $ 6.00 that other shop will not stay in business.


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

thanks for everyone that has commented, i just wanted to make sure i was not pricing too high and i think i am in the right range as far as price. i will continue to stand firm in my prices and continue to offer quality work...i will have to look into the whole placing my name on the garments cause i think that is a great tool as well! thanks for all the input and listening to what i am sure you have heard a million times over...lol


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## RawkstarApparel (May 30, 2012)

There are more facets to the business besides pricing. Not everyone will go to lowest bidder. Ppl will only do so much and look for so long before they give in to somebody. Having excellent customer service and letting someone trust you will go a long way. 
I myself have decided to raise my prices. Whats the point in doing a bunch of work if it can only get you so far? Especially if you don have tons of employees or an automatic press. you cant compete with those prices so dont wear yourself out trying. I am finding out all of this now after 6 months of being in the biz.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

I always let the other guy take the unprofitable jobs. I take the profitable ones. $8 is a good price, $6 is a price for over 100 shirts, maybe even more.


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## LimeBomb (May 29, 2012)

There are two ways to price products/services...cost based (usually lower more competitive prices) and value based (higher and delivers an "experience")

The best example I can give for this is hotels: Motel 6 VS. The Ritz Carlton. Both companies do very good catering to different people in the same business.

There are going to be customers that will be looking for both. Like another thread pointed out, not everyone is looking for the lowest price.

Make sure your customers know what they are getting for the higher price.....ie customer service, faster delivery, quality or maybe throw in something extra.

Best of luck.


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## SquareBiz (Aug 27, 2011)

Hey don't worry I have a couple of people around here that would low ball a job and may barely break even. Also remember customers will always tell you that so and so's price is lower than what you offer trying to get a deal. Only time I will low ball a price is if its for charity or a good cause that will allow me to also get free advertisement.


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

yeah i think i am at a good point and i feel any cheaper and i would not enjoy it so for now i will just allow the others to low ball and take pennies on each job and have the headache if something goes wrong...thanks to every one that had some input on this...


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Your cheaper then I would have quoted... I would have been at $12.25... black shirt p/f/p front and back. That is a lot of setup time for 20 shirts.


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

thutch15 said:


> Your cheaper then I would have quoted... I would have been at $12.25... black shirt p/f/p front and back. That is a lot of setup time for 20 shirts.


Ok, thanks for letting know where you would have been on price


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## precredit (Jan 22, 2010)

I think that was a real deal for 20 shirts. I did a job two months ago- Gildan 2000 Navy, one color front (white) two color back (White&Grey) for $9.50/shirt, for 200 shirts.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

Not knowing the other shops capabilities that quoted $6.00 per it is hard to say if they made money, broken even or lost money.

Most of the time when we are faced with these types of pricing realities the first thing we do is compare their price to ours. The next thing we do is try to rationalize that they will be out of business soon because there is no way we could do it for that price and make money so it stands to reason they cannot either.

The one thing that normally gets over looked is production rate of the other shop. You may look at a job like that and figure it will take you about an hour from start to finish. A well oiled automatic shop would spend less than 10 minutes total on a job like that. Actual printing time would be around 5 minutes. If they had enough of these size jobs to fill a day they could easily make around $2400 a day after paying for the shirts off jobs like that. If the owner then had to spend $1900 of that each day to pay expenses such as employees, money back into the company and things he could still walk away with $125,000 a year salary. I am not saying this is the case here but this type of thing is possible and is done every day all over the country.


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## jamerican352005 (Nov 1, 2008)

Did you ask if the other shop has any set up fees, artwork fees, or charge extra for plus sizes. Anytime someone local calls and needs a price quote and I hear "I can get it cheaper at so-in-so's" I always point out our price is what the customer will pay and the price will include 4 different layouts to choose from. Sometimes it isn't about trying to compete it is about pointing out you will offer more with no hidden fees. 8 times out of ten the same people will call me back saying the other company was charging artwork, set up and more for the plus sizes. They always say thanks and feel like the other guy is being sneaky with all the additional fees. Which they aren't set up, art, and charging more for plus sizes is pretty common. See if that sales strategy will work for you.


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

jamerican352005 said:


> Did you ask if the other shop has any set up fees, artwork fees, or charge extra for plus sizes. Anytime someone local calls and needs a price quote and I hear "I can get it cheaper at so-in-so's" I always point out our price is what the customer will pay and the price will include 4 different layouts to choose from. Sometimes it isn't about trying to compete it is about pointing out you will offer more with no hidden fees. 8 times out of ten the same people will call me back saying the other company was charging artwork, set up and more for the plus sizes. They always say thanks and feel like the other guy is being sneaky with all the additional fees. Which they aren't set up, art, and charging more for plus sizes is pretty common. See if that sales strategy will work for you.


 
yeah i think i will try that next time...


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

If a customer says they can get a better price elsewhere, my first question is: "Are you ready to make your payment right now?"

If they say yes, I'll look over our production schedule and if I see some openings that are wide (say, 3 hours without production), I'll usually take a job at a slimmer margin just to keep the production department busy.

If they say no, I'll tell them to come and discuss discounts when they're ready to buy -- I even explain to customers that I do give discounts when we're slow, but we're rarely slow since we do plenty of contract printing for other print resellers in the city.

We offer 4 pricing tiers: retail, friends, wholesale A and wholesale B. Most deals end up being what I charge my friends, which is still double what I charge our smaller wholesale customers.

Still profit to be made, but only if you can find moments in your production schedule where there's no work going on anyway.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We are close to Los Angeles and when someone comes in with a really low price we know those shirts are seconds and irregulars out of LA. We have had a couple of our wholesale customers bring in these shirts. They can be a PITA to work with.


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## beanie357 (Mar 27, 2011)

Some good input from Preston tree fox and jamerican here.
We usually go by the job, sled, and who they are.
Who they are might be important in the near future.
Or not.


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## 135367 (Mar 10, 2011)

I agree, $12.50 is about right. After you figure the cost of the shirt, ink costs, your time, overhead, profit margin, messed up shirts, etc., you can go broke at $8.00.


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

smartwear said:


> I agree, $12.50 is about right. After you figure the cost of the shirt, ink costs, your time, overhead, profit margin, messed up shirts, etc., you can go broke at $8.00.


True, but you don't know what the other guy is running to make things more efficient.

If he's got a CTS system, making screens is a lot faster and cheaper than exposing it by printing a film.

If he's using Newman Roller Frames with Pinlock Registration (and the software to support it) and his press supports them, alignment and calibration of the screens is really easy and fast.

If he's scheduling the job to run when he's already got the pink plastisol out and being used on another same-color job, there's a time savings there.

Would I take a job that cheap? Maybe if my press operator was free for an hour and not doing anything, but not as a retail price. I've taken jobs really slim when we've had gaping holes in our print schedule -- at least my guy gets paid and the dryers are all heated up anyway.

If I take a job at a discount, I always extend the due date by at least a week. No discounts for our regular turn-around.


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## mygivingtee (Dec 18, 2009)

Never negotiate with yourself.... You'll meet many people that are willing to pay $7 for a birthday card but won't pay $7 for a t-shirt that you spent several hours setting up and printing
I did cost accounting in apparel manufacturing and could send a copy of my Excel spreadsheet to anyone that needs help defining and understanding your costs.

Once you understand your costs you can decide what markup you are willing to take on a job. I never take less than a 40% markup on my costs.


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## suthernkumfert (Jun 29, 2010)

mygivingtee said:


> Never negotiate with yourself.... You'll meet many people that are willing to pay $7 for a birthday card but won't pay $7 for a t-shirt that you spent several hours setting up and printing
> I did cost accounting in apparel manufacturing and could send a copy of my Excel spreadsheet to anyone that needs help defining and understanding your costs.
> 
> Once you understand your costs you can decide what markup you are willing to take on a job. I never take less than a 40% markup on my costs.


Cool, i would love the speadsheet if you dont [email protected]


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## muibubbles (Apr 21, 2011)

mygivingtee i would love a copy as well if you dont mind! [email protected]

Thanks!


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## Rockingthecradle (May 24, 2012)

I think the most important questions when pricing are whether the price is sustainable for your business and worth it for your effort. If not you might need to reconsider whether you want to do it or not. Good luck


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## 135367 (Mar 10, 2011)

I would also love to have a copy of this spreadsheet. Please send it to: SmartWear@COmcast.net

thanks much!!


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## mygivingtee (Dec 18, 2009)

I'll create some instructions and send you a copy


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## lkt1954 (Nov 15, 2009)

my givingtee-

Would you mind posting your spreadsheet on this forum? That way it is there for anyone who might be interested in it. 

We too would be in the $ 12-15 range here. We just did 17 shirts for a vacation bible school on gildan 8000 front logo 11" x 11" @ $ 7.75 per shirt. 

Larry


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## mygivingtee (Dec 18, 2009)

Larry
I would gladly send it to anyone that wants the Screen Printing Quote spreadsheet and/or the DTG Printing spreadsheet. 
Each person would have to enter information that is specific to their business (e.g. products they usually print on by size and color, their fixed costs (rent, utilities, etc) 
Stephen


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## Pound4PoundPrint (May 30, 2012)

Everyone here brings up some great points.

I myself am teeter tottering on where to price at...most competitors in my area are at $6 per shirt for 1 color and location with screen fees at about $20-$25

I'm trying to find a happy medium myself...

MyGivingTee I would love to get my hands on that excel spreadsheet! I think it would be great to help me get a starting point. You can shoot me an email at [email protected]

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!


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## Vpmarx (Jun 26, 2012)

Mygivingtree: Can you send me the excel sheets as well? Please send me an email at: [email protected].

Thanks!


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## AceHighway (Jun 25, 2012)

Hey could I please get a copy of that spreadsheet? Thank you 

My email is [email protected]

Sent from my EVO 4G using T-Shirt Forums


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## fkudlack (Sep 16, 2009)

I agree with everyone's thoughts, I posted this earlier in another thread but didn't get a response just wanted to repost so maybe could touch on it more specifacly. "As a smaller outfit how have you set yourself up for growth? If you are printing out of a smaller sqft shop with a 6/6 manual and all that comes with that setup. What about home based printers with no rent that move into a commercial space and add $500+ in rent to overhead. What do you do with your pricing when you upgrade space and eqipment and your overhead goes up? Are you kind of committed to your initial pricing? Do you make up the shrinking margin on volume? Any info would be great as I'm working on my pricing structure and am fearful that I might be pricing myself out of business now due to growth in the future." I have no desire to be a low baller I just want to create a great product for a fair price and make a decent profit so I can grow the business an reinvest. Hopefully make a nice living at it down the road. 

Also I would appreciate a copy of the spreadsheet if still available [email protected]

Thanks


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## bshop84 (Aug 2, 2012)

When you guys say $6/shirt or $8/shirt, is that the total cost divided per shirt including screen setup fees? or is it $6/shirt PLUS fees?


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## jkewl99 (Feb 9, 2012)

suthernkumfert said:


> they wanted to use a black gildan 2000 shirt with pink ink. i figured i would have to undercoat in white and then apply the pink so with time and printing coast i thought 8 bucks was a great deal...and i wasnt even goning to charge a step up fee or nothing...


Curious as to why you felt an under-base was necessary, I have printed opaque pink on black, charcoal gray and navy with a p/f/p and have had great look and feel. Anyhow, My two cents, why would you not charge a setup fee? Would you do any other job for free. I know there are many posts on the forum but it bugs me when people undersell to get an order and customers do not realize the efforts that go in to making a quality print.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

jkewl99 said:


> Curious as to why you felt an under-base was necessary, I have printed opaque pink on black, charcoal gray and navy with a p/f/p and have had great look and feel. Anyhow, My two cents, why would you not charge a setup fee? Would you do any other job for free. I know there are many posts on the forum but it bugs me when people undersell to get an order and customers do not realize the efforts that go in to making a quality print.


You are doing a Print-Flash-Print so in essence you are using as much ink as he would doing a Base-Flash-Top Print. Are you not charging for two printed colors? You should be charge for 1 setup, 2 prints and a flash.

Now on an auto using the white base and a separate screen for the pink would speed production way up so it would not be in your or your customers best interest to not use a white base. Unless you are giving them the second layer of pink ink for free.

Anytime a print requires us to print/flash/print we charge for two colors regardless if we use one screen or two.


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## jkewl99 (Feb 9, 2012)

Preston said:


> You are doing a Print-Flash-Print so in essence you are using as much ink as he would doing a Base-Flash-Top Print. Are you not charging for two printed colors? You should be charge for 1 setup, 2 prints and a flash.
> 
> Now on an auto using the white base and a separate screen for the pink would speed production way up so it would not be in your or your customers best interest to not use a white base. Unless you are giving them the second layer of pink ink for free.
> 
> Anytime a print requires us to print/flash/print we charge for two colors regardless if we use one screen or two.


Thank you, I never thought about it that way. When I quoted my job, I quoted based on the one color one screen. My personal the amount of ink used on the P/f/P was very nominal so I never really thought of charging for the second coat...... Something to think about. Thanks again.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

jkewl99 said:


> Thank you, I never thought about it that way. When I quoted my job, I quoted based on the one color one screen. My personal the amount of ink used on the P/f/P was very nominal so I never really thought of charging for the second coat...... Something to think about. Thanks again.



Print a sample shirt with one coat and then print another shirt with the p/f/p .

Then you have something to show customers when you try and explain it. You can say "Do you want it this way or that way".


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

White is also cheaper then an opaque pink. Standard pink is cheaper then opaque ink. When I do black shirts with a pink I underbase with a reduced white on a 230 then Top coat with a 230 or 272. I use less ink softer prints and the pink is brighter then a p/f/p pink. The difference in a 100 shirt job for ink usage may shock you. I have tested this by weighing ink the printing 50 shirts with p/f/p on a 156 and the way I mentioned above. My ink usage with the white and pink was about 40% less the with just pink.


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## alrozac (Dec 20, 2012)

I had a similar situation today. Quoted $8 a shirt and was told my competitor was charging $6. I will not lose money to make a sale. If the customer is that cheap, I don't want his business. I plan on being here for a long time.


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## sudrust (Dec 4, 2012)

Screening that job would be 2c frt 2c back, 4 screens, 2 flash but it will look awesome and last and cost more than any price posted yet (premiums on qty < 36). Personally, I would sell them on nice neon vinyl due to low volume. Just told someone today 'my goal is not to be the cheapest, but to be the best'.


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## Cindylou (Jul 10, 2009)

I'd love a copy of the spreadsheet [email protected]


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## dougie54 (Jul 28, 2010)

Would please send me a copy of your Screen Printing Quote spreadsheet and/or the DTG Printing spreadsheet to [email protected] Thanks


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## sudrust (Dec 4, 2012)

Got the ss from your site... pretty nice. Actually taught me some new tricks for excel...thanks! I added front/back printing, flashing costs, and took out the "1+" margins. Also added a discount button for repeats, schools, etc. My ss was similar, but I think I'll switch to the modded version of yours. Appreciate it!


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## bshop84 (Aug 2, 2012)

I guess I'd like a copy too  [email protected]


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## Printavo (Oct 7, 2007)

Yeah I would like to see that too: [email protected]printavo.com

Maybe host it on Dropbox and post a Share link


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## Hegemone (Oct 18, 2011)

I think your pricing seems reasonable. I would have done one screen but mixed some pigment in with my white to achieve a pink. (or even some left over red I had lying around). Anything I can do to avoid another screen).

I have been low balled several times and have found customers come to me after the experience of a quick an dirty print job. These low ballers in my area are not full time printers and are usually someones uncle with junk in their basement. The bigger established shops in this area don't seem to play that game and frankly it works to everyone's advantage. We all have to compete with online and Walmart style operations so we have found our niche and offer a comprehensive experience rather then a copy and paste job. I know who my clients are going to be and I target them appropriately and I offer incentives for word of mouth advertising. As well I offer one off shirts that may not be a huge money maker for me but man if it doesn't get peoples mouths running to other potential clients.

I have also learned that as greedy as I am, I know my limits and am more then willing to let a customer look else where if I am not positive I can give a superior product. This is not to say that I don't direct my customer 
to consider options that I can do well. Finally my wife is a graphic designer and frankly pukes out steller designs in minutes that put clipart and block text cheapo designs to shame. Every person that has come to us with a craptastic online designer (customsoandso.com) print out has left that design in the circular file after seeing our sketch. Only one considered another local shop and they dropped the ball and gave them a crappy sketch that sent the client right back to us.

So just be confident in yourself (as you appear to be) and be supportive of clients that want to go some where else. They will remember your demeanor and helpfulness as they reflect on their experience.

Just my two cents. Toss them in a well and make a wish.


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## jegflhs (May 24, 2011)

I think your price is right in line and wouldn't worry about the loss of an occasional "low-ball". Competition in this line of business is really getting "cut throat". Try and establish a customer base where you have repeat customers who know you and your quality of work. Give a little extra now and then to get your foot in the door. Trying to compete with these other guys on a day-to-day bases isn't worth the effort. Print some brochures and give them to the local manufactures who sponsor yearly events.


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## iCON Graphix (Jan 25, 2013)

Mygivingtree would you please send me a copy of the ss? I'm a new business trying to get going. [email protected]


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