# Explaining Plastisol Transfers to Customers



## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

If you have t-shirt with a design that you pressed using plastisol transfers, and a potential customer asks what process you used, how do answer that?

Most won't have a clue what plastisol is. So do you say screen printing? Does it matter that it wasn't screen printed directly onto the garment? 

I'm struggling for a simple but honest way of answering this question for a customer without having to launch into an industry detailed scientific explanation. Currently I answer by saying something like "This shirt was pressed using screen printing inks."

So far, I only have two samples using plastisol. But since I plan to place my first custom orders next week, I'm sure the question will be asked more. So any advice would be appreciated.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

You Know Maxine, 

That has been a never ending (it seams) stigma with re-sellers/retailers etc. educating people what it is.

I personally think it is time well worth spending educating your clients what plastisol transfers are. I do it one customer at a time and I feel that I'm contributing to the Plastisol Makers Industry. 

Comparing to 10 years ago, more and more people are aware of it today.

The best I find, is to have a few samples around in order to show/compare and let the product speak for it self. 

...but that's just me and I'm sure others do it or feel different about this topic.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

i dont think you are too far off if you tell them it is screen printed.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



binki said:


> i dont think you are too far off if you tell them it is screen printed.


 ...the problem with this picture is the "Transfer" word I think.


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## NathanAnderson (Feb 15, 2007)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

It's an interesting question, one that I answer about 200 times a day at trade shows. I usually tell them that it is a pvc (plastic) based ink that is used in screenprinting and that plastisol transfers are simply carrier sheets that have been screen printed with the same type of plastisol inks. This is then transfered on you garment using a commercial heat press. This usually leads to one of two questions: Why not just screen print? or Whats the difference between that and digital?

Here is a list of advantages I give:
-It's versatile (Take the same image and use it on bags, shirts, shorts, hats, etc.)
-It's durable (It washes and can be made for more substrates that Digitial)
-Greater Opacity (The millage (thickness of your ink) achieved through printing first onto paper keeps the garment color from bleeding through)
-Do you want your graphic to be printed by a manufacture who is approved to print for large corporate accounts? (like some of the plastisol transfer mfgs in the US)
-You don't have to stock finished garments, just stock blanks and transfers and decorate as you need them. The cost of wasted inventory gets passed to the customer whether they like it or not, using transfers helps you keep that cost down.

There is certainly a perception battle to fight with transfers. How can transfer be good enough to be used by large apparel corporations and not for tommy's little league shirt? The difference between digital and plastisol is still not clear a large portion of people. The technology and methods of printing transfers have change dramatically since my father was printing his own in his fathers basement in the 70s. Some old timers who were burned back in the day by Farrah Fawcett & Daisy Duke falling off after a wash or two refuse to go anywhere but direct screen printing.

All that to say, keep educating your customers on what they are getting. If you put out a good product the truth won't hurt you.

Nathan Anderson
F&M Expressions 
Numberalls


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

Well, your transfers (if they come from a home printer) are not screen printed transfers. If they are screen printed transfers, and they use plastisol based inks, then you tell your customers that you use heat transferable designs. Plastisol is the kind of ink you use. There's also water-based inks, soy-based inks and pvc-free inks.

You've got direct screen printing and indirect (heat transfers) screen printing. 

In all of my experiences, don't even mention it if you don't have to. If you have a hard time explaining it, don't you think they'll have a hard time understanding you?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



> Here is a list of advantages I give:
> -It's versatile (Take the same image and use it on bags, shirts, shorts, hats, etc.)
> -It's durable (It washes and can be made for more substrates that Digitial)
> -Greater Opacity (The millage (thickness of your ink) achieved through printing first onto paper keeps the garment color from bleeding through)
> ...


Thanks for the great breakdown, Nathan!


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

Yes, that's it! I just had a light-bulb moment!



NathanAnderson said:


> There is certainly a perception battle to fight with transfers.


This was hurdle number one. 

I was reluctant to use the word "transfer" to describe it. Inversely, "Screen printed" has a greater perceived value in the average customer's mind than a "transfer". So naturally I wanted to find a way to let a potential customer know the benefits of this process that uses screen printing processes and screen printing inks. 

I understood and could explain what plastisol transfers are and how they are made, but then, as Nathan stated....



NathanAnderson said:


> This usually leads to one of two questions: Why not just screen print? or Whats the difference between that and digital?


I would have no problem explaining the pros and cons of plastisol versus digital. 

I now understand that it was the *"why not just screen print?"* question that was the other major stumpling block that I was jumping through hoops to avoid! I didn't know a good reason "why not" that would be truly acceptable to ME if I were the customer.



NathanAnderson said:


> Here is a list of advantages I give:
> -It's versatile (Take the same image and use it on bags, shirts, shorts, hats, etc.)
> -It's durable (It washes and can be made for more substrates that Digitial)
> -Greater Opacity (The millage (thickness of your ink) achieved through printing first onto paper keeps the garment color from bleeding through)
> ...


Nathan, your list of advantages educated me. Now I can confidently offer this form of imprinting services and I can openly and honestly discuss both the processes AND the true benefits to my customers. 



NathanAnderson said:


> All that to say, keep educating your customers on what they are getting. If you put out a good product the truth won't hurt you.





T-BOT said:


> I personally think it is time well worth spending educating your clients what plastisol transfers are. I do it one customer at a time and I feel that I'm contributing to the Plastisol Makers Industry.


I agree. Education is the key...

... and thanks for educating me today.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

I think you could say "heat pressed using screen printing ink" or "heat pressed using screen printed paper".


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## hammered (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

Ive opted to not explain about Plastisol. I just tell them I offer silk screened graphics. Im telling them the truth, just not offering all the details about the process. As long as the ends are the same, I see no reason to offer more information than needed.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

When people think of transfer. They remember the old transfer that didn't old up. I never mention the word transfer.I tell them, I screenprint. This seems to make them happy. I had one customer that remarked how much better screenprinting looks rather than transfers.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*

Describing it in round-about, but truthful, terms is one thing.

Saying it's "screen-printed" is flat-out lying.

That's like a restaurant saying its pizzas are "oven-baked", when they reheat them in a microwave.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



monkeylantern said:


> Describing it in round-about, but truthful, terms is one thing.
> 
> Saying it's "screen-printed" is flat-out lying.
> 
> That's like a restaurant saying its pizzas are "oven-baked", when they reheat them in a microwave.


I screen print my transfers. It's just that they're printed on release paper and not fabric. But it's screen printed.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> I screen print my transfers. It's just that they're printed on release paper and not fabric. But it's screen printed.


you're right, but how do you explain that to someone who Only Knows the term "Screen Printing" ? 

....when the word Transfers is mix in there, you get this from some: "Don't Transfers Crack" ? 

so that's what the thread is about.  

I say show clients samples and let them decide. They do write the checks.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> I screen print my transfers. It's just that they're printed on release paper and not fabric. But it's screen printed.


And the restaurant oven-bakes its pizzas. It just reheats them in a microwave before serving.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



> Saying it's "screen-printed" is flat-out lying.


What makes you say that? Can you go into it in a bit more depth.

Obviously you're not the only one with that opinion (hence the need for this thread), but can you expand a bit on why you feel that way? 

Have you seen high quality screen printed transfers? 

They are screen printed, so what would make it "not" screen printed?

I honestly don't think 97% of the population (including me) could tell the difference in a t-shirt that was printed with a screen printed transfer applied with a heat press or a shirt that was screen printed directly onto the garment. Both done perfectly.

There are a few techniques and specialty types that screen printed transfers still can't touch (say the zero feel water based ink designs of oddica), but take your average (or above average) design at threadless or johnny cupcakes or life is good and they could be done with a screen printed transfer and I'm not sure you would know the difference (not saying that they are printed that way).

I'm really curious about this  Is there really a reason why you couldn't call it screen printed if it is indeed a screen printed design?


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Explaining Plastisol to Customers*



COEDS said:


> I never mention the word transfer.I tell them, I screenprint.


True, the graphic is created via screen print. 

Saying "I screen print" is fine if you are a screen printer. 

I'm not a screen printer (yet). So personally, I would not tell a customer or anyone else that "I screen print" or that "I screen printed the graphic".

But saying that the graphic was created using a "screen printed process" or "using screen printing inks" or that it was "heat pressed using a screen printed graphic" is acceptable to me. 

And now that I know the pros and cons of the process, I feel comfortable providing full disclosure for any customer that wants further information about the process.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

It's lying by omission.

If you say "screenprinted" to a potential customer, they will likely know what you mean. It is a process.

Screenprinted transfers may in many ways be identical. This isn't a question of quality, or anything else, it's that you are not screenprinting. You are applying screenprinted transfers. Dress it up however you want, but to simply say "screenprinted" is a partial picture, just as "oven-baked pizza" is true even for the microwaved pizza, but misleading.


The very fact we're *having* this conversation shows that there is *intention* to mislead.

I don't believe in lying to get custom.


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

monkeylantern said:


> The very fact we're *having* this conversation shows that there is *intention* to mislead.


Well no, not quite. The reason for this conversation was to find a way to honestly convey the benefits of the process, without bringing into play the prejudice against transfers, in a simple statement that didn't lead into having the complicated discussion with a customer that we're all having now.


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

Now I understand why companies (people) create new names for processes. 

"Introducing the NEW SPT PROCESS! This revolutionary new product combines the benefits of Screen Printing with the ease of use and advantages of Transfers. ORDER YOURS TODAY!!!"


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Screenprinted transfers may in many ways be identical. This isn't a question of quality, or anything else, it's that you are not screenprinting. You are applying screenprinted transfers. Dress it up however you want, but to simply say "screenprinted" is a partial picture, just as "oven-baked pizza" is true even for the microwaved pizza, but misleading.
> 
> 
> The very fact we're *having* this conversation shows that there is intention to mislead.


I don't think there's any intention to mislead being conveyed in this thread. It's definitely not the purpose.

But since you agree that quality isn't the issue, it's just that they aren't "screenprinting". 

What makes screen printing directly on a t-shirt really screen printing and and screen printing on a transfer not screen printing?

If the quality is the same and the output is the same and the inks are the same and the printing is the same and the process is the same, why does the existence of release paper instead of going directly to the shirt strip it of the "screen printing" moniker?

Right or wrong, I have a strong feeling (judging by the clients of the plastisol transfer makers) that it's already being called "screen printing" by businesses large and small. From large apparel companies, to sportwear companies, to amusement parks to a local business selling soccer designs.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

> Right or wrong, I have a strong feeling (judging by the clients of the plastisol transfer makers) that it's already being called "screen printing" by businesses large and small. From large apparel companies, to sportwear companies, to amusement parks to a local business selling soccer designs.


I have no doubt that it is.

But I like to call a duck a duck.

I have little bias against pla.transfers (I view them, in most cases, as comparable in quality to screenprinting, and a long way above other forms of heat transfer for most fashion applications).

But you can't sell synthetic diamonds as geniune diamonds, even if they are molecularly identical.

But one is a diamond and one is a man-made diamond. I doubt a jeweller selling one for the price of the other would get away with saying "but they they same!".


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I'm not sure your analogies are fitting for screen printing on the shirt and screen printing on release paper 



> I have little bias against pla.transfers (I view them, in most cases, as comparable in quality to screenprinting, and a long way above other forms of heat transfer for most fashion applications)


I'm getting that. I'm trying to dig deep to see if the reluctance to call them screen printing is a knee jerk reaction that comes from a preference for traditional screen printing. 

Because, to be honest, I have the same reaction myself. But when I really think about it, I'm trying to figure out if they are both just ducks


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Isn't the difference between many processes based on carrier mediums involved in the process, not the end result?

Else how is a machine printing directly onto a garment DTG, and printing onto a paper for heat application at a later date, where there is no backing medium left behind and using the same inks, a form of transfer printing?


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I'm trying to figure out if they are both just ducks


they are not both ducks.  

they are made via the same screen print type process but are different. We all know what the difference is. 

1. you print on the shirt.
2. you print on paper.

I think because the print on paper is an extra step, that it self will lead to questions. ....and open the door to further necessary explaining to clients.

but come on, a screen print is a screen print no matter how you look at it.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

The language in our industry (Garment Manufacturing) is quite simple.

Are you a direct or indirect printer?

As for transfers, there are many different ways to produce a heat transfer. A screen-printing method is one way, ink-jet and laser printing are others. And there are others that I'm not familiar with as of yet.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

T-BOT said:


> but come on, a screen print is a screen print no matter how you look at it.


Then a backing free computer-printed based print is a DTG print no matter how you look at it.


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

This is good. 

Here's a direct question for Nick, Rodney and Lucy:

Do you personally feel it is misleading to refer to it as an "indirect screen printing process"?

Jimmy, I'd be interested in your opinion as well.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

> Do you personally feel it is misleading to refer to it as an "indirect screen printing process"?


That seems far more honest.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

monkeylantern said:


> Then a backing free computer-printed based print is a DTG print no matter how you look at it.


ok Nick, you can rest your wine glass now. ...DTG new machines, no "screens".


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

mzmadmax said:


> This is good.
> 
> Do you personally feel it is misleading to refer to it as an "indirect screen printing process"?


I think it's confusing, that's what I think it is. 

It takes a trained eye to tell the difference between a quality heat transfer shirt and quality direct printed shirt. See, we're talking about a manufacturing technique here. _Screen printed_ no longer means directly printed designs. And this is because it isn't accurate anymore. 95% of people who purchase t-shirts with designs on them don't know how the hell it was created. And this would include the majority of posters on this board. Nautica, Tony Hawk, Guess, Timberland, Nike, Addidas and Disney are all world-wide top-dollar garments. And every one of them use, at some rate, heat transfer designs on their shirts, pant and shorts. Not a lot of people know that, nor do they really care. But the fact is, heat transfer, screen printed designs can be of a very high quality. So why distinguish a small difference?


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

mzmadmax said:


> Do you personally feel it is misleading to refer to it as an "indirect screen printing process"?


no, 

But I like to refer to it as " ready made Screen Printing ready to apply ". ...in seconds.


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## hammered (Apr 14, 2006)

So whats being said is, its not that the quality, but that *I* dont do the screen printing? When offer the screened finish, I do just that, I offer silk screening. As stated before, it is screened, just onto a mylar release sheet. The end product is just as nice, looks every bit as top end and will last every bit as long as a screened shirt with the same quality inks. Any company that out sources, lists their services, state them this way. Customers arent as savy as some of you would hope. Thats why they come to those who are. Lets be honest, if this work was as easy as it is for some of you, we'd all be doing it and wouldnt need the others. Most of my customers dont want to know the details of how I get the job done. As long as its done right, on time and on or under budget. They dont care that I dont have a $20,000, 6 color turret setup. Several of my customers who are business owners themselves, understand that its not necessary to know how or what I do to make sure their job is to the standard Ive set.
Its a matter of semantics. Id say calling it a flat out lie is harsh and over the top. If I stated to my customers the *I* do silk screening, then yes, that would be a lie.


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## NathanAnderson (Feb 15, 2007)

Personally, I will take the time to explain the difference in method(if they want to hear, lots of people don't care). Since I don't deal directly with the end user, I supply the transfer, I rarely have those discussions directly. I help my customers when they ask me what they should tell their customer. 



Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> I think it's confusing, that's what I think it is.
> 
> It takes a trained eye to tell the difference between a quality heat transfer shirt and quality direct printed shirt. See, we're talking about a manufacturing technique here. _Screen printed_ no longer means directly printed designs. And this is because it isn't accurate anymore. 95% of people who purchase t-shirts with designs on them don't know how it was created. And this would include the majority of posters on this board. Nautica, Tony Hawk, Guess, Timberland, Nike, Addidas and Disney are all world-wide top-dollar garments.


I think this is an important point. The large corporate apparel companies are further ahead than your local screen pinter, team dealer, mom & pops, etc. They have the capital to invest in testing so they know the quality they are getting. They also have a lot of their garments decorated as they are being sewn in the production line (big transfer advantage). Walk through your local mall, a significant majority of what you find will be a transfer like it or not. As far as perception goes the big boys have gotten over the bad 70's history of transfers. 

Look at Tagless labels how do you think they are made?

Nathan Anderson
F&M Expressions
Numberalls
[email protected]


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