# SEO Company Help!



## zachariasCO (Jan 2, 2012)

Can someone tell me a good SEO company to use to boost my website traffic? And if you used them what it cost you and how much of a traffic boost did they get you?


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## pssent (Jan 26, 2012)

Try MerchantCircle. They have a free option that will get you in the search engines, provided you enter as much data in every available free outlet they offer and their paid subscriptions are reasonable. That will get you started. We joined Merchant Circle last week and already have 2 paid orders from their searches alone. 

Good Luck!
MVP Graphics


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

you don't need an seo, you need to know what to do with your website, here are some tips:


Your title bar should have words that people would search for. This is true for each page on your website but most true for your landing page.
Your web page needs readable text in it, not images of text. The search engines pick this up. Make sure the search words show up
Sign up for Google Places and the same for Bing and Yahoo.
Make a Yelp page for yourself as well as Merchant Circle and others like it.
Make an Alexa.com page for your site.
The taxonomy of your website should be consistent.
Get linked. The more links to your site the better chance you have of showing up.
Tweet and Face book. Search Engines pick this stuff up.
Update your website every couple of months. The search engines crawl about every six weeks so you should be fresh when then come back.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

binki said:


> you don't need an seo, you need to know what to do with your website, here are some tips:
> 
> 
> Your title bar should have words that people would search for. This is true for each page on your website but most true for your landing page.
> ...


That is all part of on-site SEO, but if you are competing for a high competition keyword that is not going to be near enough. You need to have other SEO done to get you to the top.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

KabirC said:


> That is all part of on-site SEO, but if you are competing for a high competition keyword that is not going to be near enough. You need to have other SEO done to get you to the top.


That will cover 90%+ of what needs to be done for SEO. The rest (off site people linking to you) can come naturally over time as you provide excellent service and stand out products.

I agree with @binki, I personally don't think a person needs to hire an SEO


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

Rodney said:


> That will cover 90%+ of what needs to be done for SEO. The rest (off site people linking to you) can come naturally over time as you provide excellent service and stand out products.
> 
> I agree with @binki, I personally don't think a person needs to hire an SEO


Sure if you are trying to get to the top of Google for a keyword that gets like 100 searches a month that is enough, or just your brand's name but if you are trying to get to the top of Google for one of your product's keywords that gets 1000s of searches a month and has high competition. That is not going to suffice whatsoever.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We don't pay for advertising but we show up on top for Embroidery, Screen Printing, Banners, Awards, and much more. We don't have a fancy website either, just one page but we cover all the bases that I mentioned. Now our business is local, we don't sell on the web, but the concept is the same. You have to grow it over time, it won't happen overnight. 

Oh, Do a youtube video too! That will help.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

binki said:


> We don't pay for advertising but we show up on top for Embroidery, Screen Printing, Banners, Awards, and much more. We don't have a fancy website either, just one page but we cover all the bases that I mentioned. Now our business is local, we don't sell on the web, but the concept is the same. You have to grow it over time, it won't happen overnight.
> 
> Oh, Do a youtube video too! That will help.


Is it city name embroidery or just embroidery? If it is city name then yeah obviously you should be there, especially if there is not competition there. If it is just embroidery, do you show up in Google Places? If it is Google Places then that isn't SEO that is Google Places Optimization where it shows up just for people that are in the same geo-location not anyone else.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Yes, we are location based search which is our market. Lot's of competition here too. But the concept is the same, just a wider marketspace and harder to move up.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

binki said:


> Yes, we are location based search which is our market. Lot's of competition here too. But the concept is the same, just a wider marketspace.


Google Places will rank you based off of how many "citations" you have. A citation is your company's information on a site like Yelp, Merchant Circle and all of those. Also, what do you consider a lot? 20, 50, 100 different screen printing companies? SEO is going to be ranking you for searches that aren't just in your location. Because he isn't just a local printer and he has a full line that appeals to people all over, local optimization is not as beneficial to him as actual SEO would be.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

you should check out your website here as well:
T-shirtforums.com Site Info


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

You also need to have keywords in your Header Section of your website. The content needs to match those words.

The Header Section doesn't show on your site.

Also, on every forum, directory, listing etc include your site. Even if it's in the Profile.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

KabirC said:


> Sure if you are trying to get to the top of Google for a keyword that gets like 100 searches a month that is enough, or just your brand's name but if you are trying to get to the top of Google for one of your product's keywords that gets 1000s of searches a month and has high competition. That is not going to suffice whatsoever.


I can tell you from direct experience that it's enough for both competitive and non competitive searches 

You don't need a seo expert to get good results. You just need to know the basics, be remarkable and have patience.

The problem is that most business owners don't even do the basics that binki mentioned above. The ones that do are head and shoulders above their competition. 

Local search is a big part of it, but it can also help in general results.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

Rodney said:


> I can tell you from direct experience that it's enough for both competitive and non competitive searches
> 
> You don't need a seo expert to get good results. You just need to know the basics, be remarkable and have patience.
> 
> ...


If you are trying to target local things then yeah sure it will work for some industries. For a lot of them it won't, not going to comment on your market as I don't know it very well but here in the Bay Area everyone has an SEO pro so it isn't all that easy to rank. Also, if he is trying to rank his PRODUCTS, those would be on then national level where there are people who have done SEO properly, doesn't matter whether or not the business owner has done it right, they have hired someone to do it for them. If you are trying to rank for a popular product or something that a lot of people have like let's say a Giants shirt, then you are going to need to have more than just the basics, which a lot of people do.


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## ericsson2416 (Aug 29, 2007)

binki said:


> you don't need an seo, you need to know what to do with your website, here are some tips:
> 
> 
> Your title bar should have words that people would search for. This is true for each page on your website but most true for your landing page.
> ...


Great suggestions @binki . I would also suggest creating a signature on TSF that has your web address in it. This provides more links to your website and as you post increase your web address presence.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

okay, let's say that, hypothetically, i was going to steal heavily and shamelessly from this thread and put the content in, let's say, a thread about marketing *whistles innocently*, is having a seo service (not sure of the correct phraseology) ever a bad thing? and how much would this cost since i'm asea in an ocean of technical stuff waaay over my head?

interestingly, here's something from wikipedia on seo: 

It is considered wise business practice for website operators to liberate themselves from dependence on search engine traffic.[47] Seomoz.org has suggested that "search marketers, in a twist of irony, receive a very small share of their traffic from search engines." Instead, their main sources of traffic are links from other websites.[


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We had 2 SEO companies come to us and the prices went from about $1200/yr to $6000/yr. That is the cost we know about. Now, we also know we need a 20 times return on our advertising dollar, so every dollar spent on ads needs a $20 sale to pay for it. We didn't see the numbers for SEO for us because we are local, not national or even regional. 

There you go, good luck


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

thanks, binki. 

so, what i'm hearing is doing seo for a local market is something you can do yourself for free and more than likely be topping the vast majority of the competition when it comes to positioning yourself. going for the national/world market and having seo done for you may not be a bad idea for some people? that price, i assume, is based on maintenance of the service as they change algorithms often?

how did you arrive at needing a $20 return for every $1 in advertising spent, out of curiosity? is that a generic standard, or your own amount? you say you need a $20 sale to pay for that $1 ~ is that just a sale with all overhead and material included, or do you mean you need $20 profit?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

$20 gross. That is 5% of sales which is on the low side of a norm but we are not a national company. Basically you can do some figuring to get to that number for yourself, here is a sample. 

COGS - direct materials: 20%
Fixed costs: 15%
Advertising: 5%
Labor: 16%
Total is 56% which leaves a 44% gross margin. 

with this number we want a 20 times return on ad money. If the number were higher then we would want less of a return to get the same margin or we would need to lower our costs somplace else. If we got more than 20X our ad dollar then that % would go down on actuals.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

that's very cool.  seeing as how i'm going to, ah, 'borrow' this for my thread (assuming i get that new computer this week that i'm supposed to so i can get to it), can i ask where you got this info at so i can link to it? COGS ~ cost of ?? supplies?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

COGS is cost of goods sold. Basically your material costs. 

There is no magic forumula, you need to look at your business and decide what it is and what you want it to be. Quickbooks is good at showing this information but you can do it with a spreadsheet too. 

You may sell your shirts for at 100% markup (50% margin) but add your decorating at a 1000% markup (90% margin) and the mix will come out to a % for COGS. 

The average or expected gross margin (after all expenses including labor but before taxes) in screen printing and embroidery is around 35%. That would be a healthy business. 20% is about the bottom and anything more is gravy.


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## zachariasCO (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the great feedback on the SEO I will work on some of the suggestion everyone has gave me. I had a local guy already do SEO for me like about 3 months ago. He didnt charge me much like $60 dollars but I didnt see much of an increase in traffic Im not sure if he did right. My goal right now is to get around 500 clicks a day.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

try adwords, it will cost you but get you the clicks that will move you up in the search engines.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

binki said:


> try adwords, it will cost you but get you the clicks that will move you up in the search engines.


Adwords won't move you up organically, just puts you in the spots for the ads if you are paying enough.

Ryan you got it right, local SEO is pretty easy and most people can do it yourself, but when it comes to targeting like one of your products on a level where you are trying to get buyers across the nation that's when it is a lot harder to do it yourself. I am guessing the guy who charged you $60 was just trying to make some money since that is a lot lower than most real professionals. Whoever offered you, binki, $6000 a year, what are their credentials? If they are good, that is a great deal for you.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

great information, all, thanks.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

If adwords gets you clicks you will move up in the search engines. One of the metrics is the number of clicks on your website. So in a backdoor way, you move up just by virtue of those clicking on your site.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We were approached by 2 companies, Adzoo and some other one that did online coupons and I can't remember their name right now. I forget which one charged what but they couldn't offer us anything we were not already doing.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

binki said:


> If adwords gets you clicks you will move up in the search engines. One of the metrics is the number of clicks on your website. So in a backdoor way, you move up just by virtue of those clicking on your site.


Where have you heard that? Google's latest algorithm, according to Matt Cutts a Google Associate, is based off of quality content and high quality links. I have never heard someone talk about number of clicks moving you up in the search engines by any of my peers or anyone at all.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

i thought the number of people clicking on your site was what moved you up, and seo essentially was a method of using the right keywords. am i wrong in that?


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

ryan barker said:


> i thought the number of people clicking on your site was what moved you up, and seo essentially was a method of using the right keywords. am i wrong in that?


You are wrong, what moves you up is backlinks. Backlinks are where there are links coming to a certain page of your site using the anchor text (your keyword) that you are trying to rank for. Now with the Panda update, if you just buy a lot of backlinks it is going to be absolutely useless, in fact it will have a negative effect. But if you hire a professional who does white hat SEO and gets you high quality and high PR backlinks then your site will move to the top of google. If it was just the number of people clicking on your site then you would have people buying a lot of fake traffic to get to the top.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Alexa keeps track of it: Alexa Internet - Data Services 

They are probably the top site for getting a value on your site by ranking both nationally and wordwide for both selling your site and advertising dollars.

Here is an example: http://www.alexa.com/search?q=t-shirts&r=topsites_index&p=bigtop


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

binki said:


> Alexa keeps track of it: Alexa Internet - Data Services
> 
> They are probably the top site for getting a value on your site by ranking both nationally and wordwide for both selling your site and advertising dollars.
> 
> Here is an example: http://www.alexa.com/search?q=t-shirts&r=topsites_index&p=bigtop


Yup, Alexa tracks how many views your site gets in comparison to the other sites around the world as well as a lot more. Don't know what that has to do with SEO though in our context.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

obviously i'm going to have to do some more research on this as i'm not quite grasping backlinks.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

ryan barker said:


> obviously i'm going to have to do some more research on this as i'm not quite grasping backlinks.


Send me an email at kabirchimni at techoptimization dot com and I will help you out.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Good deal Ryan. SEO changes all the time. If you offer good content and people come to your website then you will move up. It takes time unless you get one of those great mentions on the news or have a viral hit.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

good deal, kabir. i understand the concept of it, i think, but the mechanics allude me. i know i should be more computer literate than i am, but i have to force it because it's something that holds absolutely no appeal for me, ya know? i should wise up, huh?


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## zachariasCO (Jan 2, 2012)

Google adwords is a good way to get traffic to your website. I have used google adwords alot in the last 3 months but it cost alot of money no less then a dollar a click on low key words and up 5 dollars for high key words. Im looking for something I can pay a flat fee a month and get around 500 clicks a day. I have been doing research for the past 2 months on how many clicks do you need a day to get a sale and nobody really knows some say 500 some say 2000 a day. Does anyone know how many clicks a do you need to get a sale?


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

zachariasCO said:


> Google adwords is a good way to get traffic to your website. I have used google adwords alot in the last 3 months but it cost alot of money no less then a dollar a click on low key words and up 5 dollars for high key words. Im looking for something I can pay a flat fee a month and get around 500 clicks a day. I have been doing research for the past 2 months on how many clicks do you need a day to get a sale and nobody really knows some say 500 some say 2000 a day. Does anyone know how many clicks a do you need to get a sale?


There is no way to tell how many clicks, some days you can have 100 clicks and get 5 sales and others get 500 clicks but only 1 sale. It seriously just depends on a lot of different factors such as the quality of the product, their motives, how they came to your site and a lot more things.


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## SeoSplst (Feb 27, 2012)

binki said:


> you don't need an seo, you need to know what to do with your website, here are some tips:
> 
> 
> Your title bar should have words that people would search for. This is true for each page on your website but most true for your landing page.
> ...


You seem to be very knowledgable with seo. Being a Seo Professional I can say that whatever you have mentioned above is true except the last point.
The website needs to be updated as frequently as possible say every 1 week or even good if it is every single day.

The reason for that Google love fresh content.Lastly, search engines especially Google will not take six weeks to crawl. It can take as low as less than a minute.It all depends on how frequently the content is updated. have a look at twitter and facebook google crawls every single minute mainly because the content is updated frequently


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## SeoSplst (Feb 27, 2012)

zachariasCO said:


> Google adwords is a good way to get traffic to your website. I have used google adwords alot in the last 3 months but it cost alot of money no less then a dollar a click on low key words and up 5 dollars for high key words. Im looking for something I can pay a flat fee a month and get around 500 clicks a day. I have been doing research for the past 2 months on how many clicks do you need a day to get a sale and nobody really knows some say 500 some say 2000 a day. Does anyone know how many clicks a do you need to get a sale?


Did you do the adwords on your own or hire a professional?.

To answer your question, you dont need 500 clicks all you need is 50-100 clicks/keyword to see if that keyword converts or not.if that does not convert then you need to drop that keyword and focus on the other profitable keyword.


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## abdurrehman (Mar 2, 2011)

the idea being present on merchant circle and local listing websites helps a lot. You can use social media too to attract some serious customers...instead of investing on SEO try Facebook ads


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## zachariasCO (Jan 2, 2012)

I did the google adwords myself.


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## SeoSplst (Feb 27, 2012)

zachariasCO said:


> I did the google adwords my self.


Please go to youtube and search for some tutorials on the same.


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## Tinkler (Feb 6, 2012)

Cheers for this thread guys.
I was about to pay a few hundred USD per month to get someone else to do SEO for my start up.
As it is a start up I think it s better that I do it my self rather than spending money I dont have to get others to do it. Maybe if and when I become the next jonny cupcakes, or cafepress I will sub it out to the experts. But for now I think its like a small _mom & pop_ shop hiring WPP ad agency to do some marketing for them!

For us IT illiterates is there a step by step guide on this forum or the web detailing what I should be doing SEO/online marketing wise? Or does the bullet point post at the top just sum it all up?


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

check out youtube for tutorials. i know of one on there, though i don't remember exactly which one it was.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

On one of my sites I get about 500 hits per week. So far I've made two sales for $200 each.

You just need to get your name out there. Build a bunch of Directory listings like, Yelp, Yellowpages, etc. They're a bunch of yellow pages sites. Also do Merchant Circle, Facebook, Twitter, and put the Like links on your site so people can Like you. 

Post on several forums, and create a link a day. Give out some free t-shirts, stickers etc. with your website. 

Also, put your website as your Profile Signature. It really works.


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## johnbol1 (Aug 19, 2010)

KabirC said:


> Where have you heard that? Google's latest algorithm, according to Matt Cutts a Google Associate, is based off of quality content and high quality links. I have never heard someone talk about number of clicks moving you up in the search engines by any of my peers or anyone at all.


Quality content also = how many pages people click once they land on your site and browse = how long on site. I have seen many assumptions that people think they should direct people straight to the landing page that they are looking for but a few extra clicks to get them there in our experience doesnt hurt but yet tells "big G" that they are moving around and having a look which means they are interested and getting a good experience.

think of it as a local high street store,if you are browsing around your gonna see more things,sometimes we deliberately make the page we are advertising a click or two away from the landing page just for this reason...to make them browse.How many of you went in to a stroe just to buy a pack of 6 but bought some chips on the way round?
think like a high street store, its just the same process.

John


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

That's one thing I wish would go away, and that's Landing Pages. People have really abused them.


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