# Dye Sub A Whole New World!!



## StackemHard (Jan 2, 2007)

*Hello everyone here in the Dye Sub Zone. I have posted many times in the Heat Transfer Method.*

*I wanted to post here because i wanted to know what is the Current technology in Dye Sub??? Last I checked Dye Sub couldnt print on Cotton. I'm taking a wild stab in saying that it hasnt changed. But does anyone know of a way that Dye Sub can be used on 100% cotton cause from what i understand you dont need special paper to use Dye Sub as you do in Heat Transfer. I read on a web site ( to be named later cause i forgot right now ) that all you have to do is print the image on a heavy weight paper. So tell me everyone is Dye Sub better on cotton or is Heat Transfer still the way to go????*


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

You can press a dye-sub image on cotton if you prep with a paper called duracotton98. take a look here:durracotton98

This paper is for lazer printers if you want to press with images printed on it. I have tried both ways and the results are pretty good.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

StackemHard said:


> *Last I checked Dye Sub couldnt print on Cotton. I'm taking a wild stab in saying that it hasnt changed.*


*

*It _kind of _has, but not really. There is now one brand that can print on 100% cotton on white shirts only. So the options are limited, and I believe it's way more expensive.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

binki said:


> You can press a dye-sub image on cotton if you prep with a paper called duracotton98.


Does that transfer a coating (like you might spray on), or does it just transfer paper onto the shirt which can then be dye sublimated?


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

Hi all,

New to the forum….having a blast gaining incite of other forms of apparel imaging.

I exclusively specialize in Dye-Sub and for any true dye sub to work you need one of two things, synthetic substrate or synthetic (polyester) coating applied to the substrate.

For dye-sub to truly shine you need a 100% synthetic garment or polyester coated substrates.

Any variation of applying dye sub inks or toners to non synthetic substrates will absolutely need to be coated with some form of polymer receptive to dye sub molecules.

I was informed of a new asian dye-sub experiment that has a synthetic agent in the dyes itself. During the transfer process, the polymer sticks to the cotton and the dyes stick to the polymer. The assessment from the source who told me about this process is that it is a nightmare. The print head takes a beating and the colors aren't very sharp or durable. Bottom line, it is my opinion that dye-sub has its specific uses and desired characteristics..........trying to stretch that use with chemistry can cause BIG headaches.

Kind of like using a Swiss army knife in a culinary class........use doesn't fit the need. 

Thanks for having such a great forum

Jae'
amerasource.com


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> Does that transfer a coating (like you might spray on), or does it just transfer paper onto the shirt which can then be dye sublimated?


it transfers the coating


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

binki said:


> it transfers the coating


That does sound useful. So you get the benefit of an even coating, and the benefit of dye sublimation. Any idea how washfast it is?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> That does sound useful. So you get the benefit of an even coating, and the benefit of dye sublimation. Any idea how washfast it is?


I have only done one wash with it and it held up. We have the fortunate problem of being so busy that we have little time to experiment.


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## StackemHard (Jan 2, 2007)

OK like I said before im not that wise to the ways of Dye Sub. So please tell me what do you do to prep the shirt you press a whole sheet of duracotton 98 on it then press the dye sub print out on top of that????

Sorry I dont mean to sound like a retard but im trying to figure out what would be best for me.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

I cut the durracotton98 paper to the size of my transfer. Press it, pull it, place the dyesub transfer after the shirt cools, press it, pull it and done. 

Even though you will be told there is no 'hand' to the duracotton98 you will notice it if you look and the place where you press it will be somewhat stiff. I try to cut that down as much as possible by trimming the paper down to my transfer size. The only trick to that is to place the dyesub transfer in the exact same place as the pre-treatment.


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## StackemHard (Jan 2, 2007)

that works ok??


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

StackemHard said:


> that works ok??


I did a couple of prints that way and it worked ok. I have only washed it once so I can't tell you how it holds up, just that the colors are brighter with the duracotton98 prep on a 50/50 white shirt. 

If you use a vapor apparel shirt (100% poly) you really need to use a high release paper otherwise you have to put so much pressure on the shirt that you will get lines where the paper ends and where the press ends. These are hard to get out without re-pressing which will start the dyesub process again and dull your colors.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

binki said:


> I cut the durracotton98 paper to the size of my transfer. Press it, pull it, place the dyesub transfer after the shirt cools, press it, pull it and done.



Does this really have many advantages over normal heat transfer at this point? You have an extra pressing step and extra costs, and it sounds like the end result still leaves you with something similar to a good quality heat transfer (fairly light hand but noticeable, good colors, light shirts only)?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Twinge said:


> Does this really have many advantages over normal heat transfer at this point? You have an extra pressing step and extra costs, and it sounds like the end result still leaves you with something similar to a good quality heat transfer (fairly light hand but noticeable, good colors, light shirts only)?


When you say normal heat transfers, are you referring to inkjet transfers or to the ones you can buy from transfer express and such? I will take a guess that you mean inkjet transfers. 

If I can get the durracotton98 in tabloid size I would purchase a wide format laser printer for it so I could use it on cotton shirts. The speed of printing on a laser and the ease of use of the printer works for us. Plus, I can use the printer for other things like printing custom paper documents such as convention programs which is a nice add-on business for us. 

Our dye-sub business is much more than t-shirts so I don't think too much about the extra work on the shirts if I get good results. I like dye-sub because it doesn't crack or fade. I can't even get the color to budge with bleach on the vapor apparel shirts. 

If we had a big enough t-shirt order for cotton shirts that would make sense to do with inkjet transfers then I would buy the printer, bulk ink system, transfer paper and go with it. But then again, if the order is that big I might either buy the transfers from a vendor and press them. 

We are also keeping a close eye on DTG printers. These printers are getting better all the time and as soon as their is one out there that can print on dark garments and doesn't cost a fortune and is easy to use with good support from the distributor, we will be right there.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

binki said:


> I will take a guess that you mean inkjet transfers.



Correct. I have yet to come up with a better phrase for these than 'normal heat transfers' to describe this.




binki said:


> If I can get the durracotton98 in tabloid size I would purchase a wide format laser printer for it so I could use it on cotton shirts.



Ah, I hadn't quite caught this on the first read through. So the paper is meant to be a 'normal' laser transfer paper, but will also work as a base for dye-subbing on top of?




binki said:


> We are also keeping a close eye on DTG printers. These printers are getting better all the time and as soon as their is one out there that can print on dark garments and doesn't cost a fortune and is easy to use with good support from the distributor, we will be right there.



So, in 25 years? 



Anyway, while that is some good info, it doesn't really address my question (if it was supposed to). I'm not saying that dye sub in general doesn't have advantages over 'normal heat transfer', I'm just saying that it seems if you need to apply Duracotton first and then apply the dye sub on top of it that it's not much of any better and takes a long time.

I guess if you're only set up for dye sub and NOT for normal heat transfer, and you just get a rare special order for cotton shirts it might make sense. However, it seems from what I've read so far, if you want to do cotton shirts from the start you might as well just go without this odd dye sub method.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Twinge said:


> Correct. I have yet to come up with a better phrase for these than 'normal heat transfers' to describe this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with Twinge if you are going to use paper and 100% cotton why do Dye-Sub at all. The Dye-Sub intent is zero paper or coating on the shirt, just a super soft hand and awesome durability in the print. I have some Vapor samples and they are nice feeling shirts but just a bit expensive. Not so expensive that you cant make any money for sure. Getting folks over the idea of 100% poly is the hard part...but those performance fabrics are leading the charge.

I havent stepped into desktop transfer as of yet but if I did...Dye-Sub or DTG would be my path.


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