# graphic design question



## kellsey67 (Feb 21, 2012)

Hello! How is everyone? I hope well.
I have gotten myself into a pickle and I am hoping someone will read this post that can give me some advice.
I have been doing a lot of graphic design work for a local "karate" federation. They wanted me to do their certificates, but the certificates needed signatures from members all over the world. To boot, the certificates needed a lot of work to make them look acceptable. I agreed to do these certificates, with the agreement that I was doing all of the work for them. I have put in countless hours for this federation in a lot of other aspects, because I was told that I would be their supplier for their various needs.
Well, now they want all of their certificates emailed back to them so that they can go to a different print company, but they want their certificates the way that they are now! Do I have any legal stand-point here? Their explanation as to why they are now "diversifying" their vendors is hogwash. Can I hold on to their stuff until they pay me for what I have done or have I bought a lesson? Thanks in advance and sorry for the length!


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Did you have any kind of written agreement?
Have you been paid for any of the work you have done so far?

Without knowing any specific details, you are entitled to be paid for your design time.


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## csaluone (Dec 29, 2011)

I wouldn't send them anything other than an invoice with a due date and an email saying that when its paid in full, you'll send them the art files. 

I prefer to work with medium to low-res jpegs until the client has paid up to whatever the original agreement was. You may not get paid but they will need to have another design it for them which will most likely cost them. 

Good luck


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## hilltoptees (Jun 11, 2012)

No, there was only a verbal agreement that I would be the vendor for the federation-which is a world-wide federation. But, now, they are taking most of the business away. Now, they want all of their certificates-that I fixed and put the work into back-without any payment. What can I do, legally?


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## Fenrir (Mar 13, 2012)

I would start out by sending them a bill. No letters demanding your verbal contract be honored, no comments, just a detailed invoice of the work and a final cost.

If they fire back with some kind of legal demand, then you either need to hire a lawyer yourself, or give in to their demands.


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## hilltoptees (Jun 11, 2012)

Yeah, that is what I was afraid of. I thought about putting a watermark on the certificates and not removing it until they pay me, but again, I am not sure what my legal rights are. The certificates were designed by them, but it took alot of my time and effort to get them ready to be printed; not to mention the different signatures that they had to email me to apply to their certificates (the members are located all over the world). But it looks like I just bought an expensive lesson! Thanks for your time!


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## eric55 (Oct 24, 2009)

If they're not going to pay for your time and talent, I would send their original e-mails back to them without your clean-up. That is all they are entitled to as far as I would be concerned. I'm no lawyer, but they shouldn't be allowed to your work for nothing. Just my thoughts.


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## hilltoptees (Jun 11, 2012)

My thoughts exactly! Thanks for your time!


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## hilltoptees (Jun 11, 2012)

Sorry, should have put this comment in the previous one, but I did not think of that! Thanks! I sure did save all of their emails against a rainy day and boy is it storming here! Thanks!


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## CCClothing (Apr 1, 2011)

I would send them an invoice with a bill amount for the work you have already done. You completed a partial of the project, therefor you should receive partial payment. Send the invoice, if they refuse to pay, refuse to hand over the completed work and send back to "original" files. Be ready for small claims.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I would also retun the originals only if they have not paid you already for that work. Offer to sell the NEW designs and let them go their way. Unfortunate yet welcome to the world of business. Happens all the time. Make sure you get everything in writing or someone will come along with cheaper pricing and you will loose out. Some good advice posted by others. If you did any work, make sure you are paid for said work. 

- Fluid
Corel Master

Sent from somewhere using T-Shirt Forums App


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## jmorrison0722 (Mar 31, 2012)

If they paid you to work on them, they own them. If its a 'new' design you came up with for them, you could argue that you own the files and you could sell them to them. But in the end you will gain nothing by holding them captive.


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## jmorrison0722 (Mar 31, 2012)

kellsey67 said:


> Hello! How is everyone? I hope well.
> I have gotten myself into a pickle and I am hoping someone will read this post that can give me some advice.
> I have been doing a lot of graphic design work for a local "karate" federation. They wanted me to do their certificates, but the certificates needed signatures from members all over the world. To boot, the certificates needed a lot of work to make them look acceptable. I agreed to do these certificates, with the agreement that I was doing all of the work for them. I have put in countless hours for this federation in a lot of other aspects, because I was told that I would be their supplier for their various needs.
> Well, now they want all of their certificates emailed back to them so that they can go to a different print company, but they want their certificates the way that they are now! Do I have any legal stand-point here? Their explanation as to why they are now "diversifying" their vendors is hogwash. Can I hold on to their stuff until they pay me for what I have done or have I bought a lesson? Thanks in advance and sorry for the length!


Where are you located?


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## hilltoptees (Jun 11, 2012)

Tennessee.


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## jmorrison0722 (Mar 31, 2012)

hilltoptees said:


> Tennessee.


Okay, wanted to make sure it wasn't me they were going to...I have a local Karate place where I'm at who is trying to get artwork from their previous supplier. I was going to offer to help make sure you got paid at the very least. I didn't set out to take their business, I was just referred by a friend of a friend who said they were not happy with their current vendor. Just making sure it wasn't you.

So, here's something I do...
When people give me art, I file it away safe and sound as is. If I need to do clean up work to it, I have a decision to make. If I charge them, then they are technically paying for me to clean up their artwork, and they would then 'own' the artwork files. If I don't charge them and just do the clean up on my own dime (or by working it into the overhead of doing the job) then the files are mine. When they request their art to go elsewhere, I return the original art they gave me that I had filed away. Since they never hired me to clean up their files, as far as I'm concerned, those files don't exist since they were made on my dime for that one project.

Now, on the topic of 'doing the right thing', you might want to ask yourself what you stand to gain my not giving them their files? If you feel they agreed to pay you for that work and they haven't, then you have nothing to deliver.


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## pamelahaley (May 31, 2012)

I would send them a password protected, locked PDF to show them the work you have done along with an invoice. They can have the password to use the file once you have your payment. There is no point in sending them back the original file via e-mail since they already have it...

Bringing lawyers into this is only going to cost you money and probably not work out in your favor since it is their original work you have in hand. If you feel the need to sue for the work you've done; file a small claim and maintain the evidence as the original file and the file you completed per your agreement.

That's more than I would do back when I was silly enough not to create a written contract. Next time, you know better. Especially in an industry like ours where everyone thinks what you do should be free.


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## swoopent1969 (Jun 13, 2012)

Send them a clean bitmap from photo shop at 72 dpi


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## pamelahaley (May 31, 2012)

Then they will just get pissed off when they try to print it... Not that my idea is any better... They might still try to print it at low res. I see it all the time.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm not clear on the situation but don't give them any of the cleaned up work without payment.

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