# Who uses waterbased inks?



## droboy (Sep 2, 2007)

I was wondering does anybody print using waterbased colors? What is the difference and is it better?


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## jlcanterbury (Jul 26, 2007)

the reason I use water based inks is to achieve a softer hand on my shirts... I think that is the reason for the majority who choose waterbased


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

We use them too. Probably for 75% of our work at this time and hopefully for 100% in the next couple months.

They're softer, brighter (my opinion), breathable, and the best part: easy to clean up!


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

isn't it more difficult to work with, especially for the beginners?


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## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

I think it's easier for beginners. 
I use them because they are thought to be more environmentally friendly (NOT trying to start any debates), softer hand, look brighter, more breathable, easier to work with and especially clean up.
They do have their drawback, specifically clogging, but new ink lines like Matsui are removing those drawbacks.
Waterbased is coming back in a big way.


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## stugrey (Aug 24, 2007)

We used water based inks when we were beginners and have had no trouble at all. I think plastisol inks strength is in preventing clogging in long runs or in hot conditions etc. We mostly do short runs and the conditions in Glasgow could never be called hot so we've never had a problem.


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## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

I don't meet many other Stuarts, so hello.
Matsui RC and spot colors dry so slowly that they don't have a real clogging issue. I've had matsui inks on screens for 4 hours without clogging issues.
Their opaque inks can still clog.


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## droboy (Sep 2, 2007)

Can someone send me a sample of what a waterbased ink looks like?


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

We have started using Wilflex Oasis discharge and it has a little learning curve from printing plastisal for 20+ years. Luckily our large customers wanting H2O understand about trying to match PMS and double dyeing of garmets. Also we had the ink rep from Wilflex in our shop all day in December and he is returning next week to help us on all our questions we still have. The hand is a lot softer than strait plastisal mixing in Wilflex MX but using Wilflex equalizer in a Fashion Soft base I was suprised at how there is not much difference,


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## corradomatt (Jan 16, 2007)

I heard that the Wilflex Oasis discharge was pricey. How much more expensive is it than plastisol? And why not just print plastisol that is heavily reduced?

All the water-based hybrids I've seen are just as heavy anyway.


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## Timofei (Feb 2, 2008)

I am interested in this process as well and plan to purchase the inks and do some print samples for wash tests after air drying thoroughly.


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

I print exclusively with grafco waterbased.No drying issues,lovely soft hand and great opacity.


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## corradomatt (Jan 16, 2007)

ukscreenprinter said:


> I print exclusively with grafco waterbased.No drying issues,lovely soft hand and great opacity.


I assume you are talking about these inks.....

Grafco,advanced inks and chemical specialties for screen printing, textile printing and graphic applications

But what line are you using? And where do you purchase these inks from?

-oh, and how are the prices?


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## birdman_tulsa (Oct 28, 2008)

I have never used anything but water based. Easy clean up, plus you can throw the environment card!


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## Timofei (Feb 2, 2008)

corradomatt said:


> I assume you are talking about these inks.....
> 
> Grafco,advanced inks and chemical specialties for screen printing, textile printing and graphic applications
> 
> ...



Matt,

I actually sent an email to your company this morning about the matsui inks.

Tim


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

corradomatt said:


> I assume you are talking about these inks.....
> That's correct
> 
> Grafco,advanced inks and chemical specialties for screen printing, textile printing and graphic applications
> ...


excellent very competitive with other suppliers,between £12 to £21 a kilo less if bulk purchase


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

corradomatt said:


> I heard that the Wilflex Oasis discharge was pricey. How much more expensive is it than plastisol? And why not just print plastisol that is heavily reduced?
> 
> All the water-based hybrids I've seen are just as heavy anyway.


Yes the Super White Discharge base is pricey, but it makes the whitest print we have found. We licensed shirts where our clients demand discharge on white. The had is much softer. On reduced plastisol the colors don't pop like discharge, its more like a waterbase on a dark shirt.


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## corradomatt (Jan 16, 2007)

studog79 said:


> Yes the Super White Discharge base is pricey, but it makes the whitest print we have found. We licensed shirts where our clients demand discharge on white. The had is much softer. On reduced plastisol the colors don't pop like discharge, its more like a waterbase on a dark shirt.


Have you tried the Matsui Discharge White? It's pretty bright and easy to use. The price is right and it can print through a 160 mesh.


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## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

I would print matsui's discharge white all day! I use it whenever possible, when I'm supposed to do a white print. But if the shirt doesn't discharge well normally, the white won't be bright enough. (like red shirts for example)


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

Wilflex has 3 differnet discharge bases that we use depending on how white we want the shirts. We have had no problem printing real white on Gildan, Anvil, and AA black or white shirts. We have the biggest issue with royal shirts.


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## fender967 (Sep 28, 2007)

I use Permaset Aqua and International Coatings Gen 4 water-based ink for all of my shirts. Permaset is very very soft but dries up easier, Gen 4 is definitely not as soft but can literally sit in the screen for an hour and still work. 

Both clean up very easily with just water and a couple sprays of ink cleaner. 

Permaset is much cheaper, around $25 for a gallon compared to $50+


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## Billyboy (Apr 25, 2006)

Guys...as far as water based inks go...what the curing process, can you still cure using a spot/conveyor? Also, I'm based in the UK, my supplier sells a catalyst that can be added to waterbased inks which make them washfast in 7 days, so with need no need to heat cure? or do both for extra measure? whats the deal!? lol


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

If you have a conveyor or flash curer use that as once you start adding catalyst what ink you don't use is no good after about 8hrs, so wastage can be high. I use both conveyor and or flash depending on quantity,just refer to your ink manufacturers curing spec and for safety wash a shirt before selling/sending.
My shirts cure fully in 90 secs through the tunnel dryer.What you are looking for is steam when you cure as this shows the water is be driven out by the heat.


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## Billyboy (Apr 25, 2006)

Cheers Ian, ok that sounds cool, I've been watching some Videos on the net though and makes it seem that it can be really hard to dry/cure waterbased inks using standard equipment aimed at plastisol. So you reckon it cures at around 90 secs, how long does it take to dry the inks? and what inks do you use? So you get an output of about 40 shirts an hour? Sorry bout all the questions!!


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

Billy,
If you have a large production run I usually just flash the shirts dry (10 secs), stack them and then run them through the conveyor once I have finished the print run. I generally use newtex one waterbased by Grafco if I need opacity,although I really like Union if I want an ultra soft hand finish.


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## parkst23 (Sep 4, 2008)

very interesting


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Waterbased defenitlely need longer cure time. Like was brought out, watch for the steam. Light garments will take less time to cure generally, because you use a thinner film of ink. Dark garments will need more time in the oven and perhaps slightly higher temps. With the inks we use, we can tell if the darks have been cured well enough by doing a stretch test. The ink cracks easier if it wasn't cured thoroughly.


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## Billyboy (Apr 25, 2006)

What kind of heat should you cure your water based shirts for? On the ryonet videos is says lower heat more time?! So for 90 seconds cure, would 230 degrees b ok?


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## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

Billyboy said:


> What kind of heat should you cure your water based shirts for? On the ryonet videos is says lower heat more time?! So for 90 seconds cure, would 230 degrees b ok?


I doubt it. I go atleast 330-340 degrees for 90 seconds. With discharge, you can see the discharge process start at about 250 degrees, but the ink must get hotter than that to cure.


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## Billyboy (Apr 25, 2006)

ok cheers guys, any one had any experience with just leaving the newtex one to cold cure, as it says here:

Textile Inks


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

cold cured the white only as a test,works fine,But as I have a tunnel dryer I heat cure EVERYTHING because I want to sleep at night and not worry about the dreaded phone call from a customer saying his colour has washed off his shirts


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## Billyboy (Apr 25, 2006)

I know what you mean! I did my first real run with waterbased today, and had problems! I'm not using the grafco yet, but wwill be from now on, was using an opaque white from another company. Started using it neat, and it wouldnt even push through the screen! Now it can't be drying issues, straight out the tub onto the screen and printed almost immediately! The ink in maybe only 1 month on my shelf unopened. So decided to water it down, worked better but still began to clog, so had to splash water on the ink (now have a spray bottle!). This was only 100 shirts, so not a big run. Are all waterbased like this cos if so I'll revert to plastisol! lol


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## 4thstoryprints (Dec 10, 2008)

waterbased inks are fairly easy to use and I like the appearance and quality as well. try Standard Screen Supply Corp. | Manufacturer of Holden's Screen Printing Supplies for inks helpful and have a good selection. many discharge colors to


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I have had no problems with water based and use only water based


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Oh yeah and i love the clean up


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Is there any reason water based inks couldn't be cured with a heat press? Print the shirts, allow them to dry, then heat press them?


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## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

Wormil-
You can use a heat press to cure WB inks. I've seen several people on here recommend it, if a heat press is all you've got. I'd use a heat gun to dry it to the touch, then heat press it, perhaps laying down a sheet of wax paper or transfer paper or something for the chance that you didn't perfectly dry the prints.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't really want to get back into screenprinting but sometimes I have an awful urge to drag a squeegee.


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## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

My blood is waterbased


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## nuclearmaker (Aug 18, 2008)

hoe about dye clogging ?


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