# HELP! Design Dilemma



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

This is something I run into all the time and would like some feedback...

Below is a design I recently completed... 

Now it looks good but there is 4 colors and each color has two stone sizes... So whether you are doing templates or an automated machine this one is TRICKY!...

If you look at the completed design I think it looks great...

But if you look at the close up this is where I struggle...

In the close up you can see the D I used two sizes of stones because I couldn't ft a 3rd row of ss10... 

But in the close up on the right... To me that is UGLY compared to the one on the left...

There is just too much spacing for my taste....

One option might be to use all ss6 but those are buggers with templates... 

So do most of you just sacrifice the design and stick to one stone size for simplicity?...

If I only saw the one it probably wouldn't matter.... But side by side I know which I would pick...

So what do you think?


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Three foot rule - if it looks good from 3 feet away it is fine.


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## web528 (Jul 6, 2011)

I usually bring the whole letter in (or out) and space - The outline and everything. It's a lot of extra stone moving, but it usually looks good in the end without using many if any ss6.


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## idelements (Feb 3, 2009)

Keep in mind that what we see and what the customer sees are two different things. We tend to be much more critical. 

I would avoid at ALL costs combining SS6 and SS10 (especially multiple colors) if I had to create these with templates. If I had a setting machine, maybe that would be different. 

But in my opinion, I can't see that you would gain much from using 6 templates (2 sizes/3 colors)...the customer is likely to not even see the difference!


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## ifusion (Jun 3, 2011)

I so agree with that. Nothing looks perfect when zoomed in at 200% in coreldraw, but pressed on a shirt, with natural wrinkles, reflections, etc... no one would tell.


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## rena PEAK (Oct 22, 2011)

Agree with ifusion. If the size of the design is not very big, no one would notice the difference.


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## hot fix motif (Jun 5, 2011)

use ss10 only is better , I think


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## ShaggyDog (May 28, 2012)

I have to agree too, i don't think the customer is going to see what you see.

I will also jump out there and say, I think you are extremely talented, I love your designs, but the mix of stone sizes stops me from buying a lot of the time. A 2 color simple design is usually 6’s and 10’s turns into 4 layers of flock or those with 2 color, hopper, bins it takes 2 runs and changes of bins/plates/hoppers in a machine to complete a 4 layer desing. It is not cost effective for flock and for machines it means you have to keep changing bin etc on a multiple run of the same design, think team, because you would have to complete the desing before it comes out of the machine. Then another set of changes for each run.


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

I agree with the post above that you are very talented. I always like seeing your designs.


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## rubyred (Aug 22, 2007)

katruax with a design dilemma! Never thought I would see the day!  imo using two size rhinestones in a design is not cost or time efficient. Having to stock every color in two sizes would be at least twice as expensive. Changing out and lining up templates, and/or hand placing the smaller rhinestones if using one template takes a LOT of time. A fix to the design might make a larger circle of crystal rhinestones in the middle of the D, making the open space inside of the D larger, but snugging up the outer rows of rhinestones a bit. Or you could randomize the colored rhinestones instead of making rows, if you want a more filled in effect, but you would lose the clean lines. Decisions, decisions!


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Most recently over the past two months, I have come to experience that customers DO notice the extra "dead" space in a design when you settle for using all ss10 to avoid the hassle of the ss06 stones. Kevin, I don't really think that applies to your design, as the spacing is not too bad.

I have been contacted by several new customers who are unhappy with being told that "using ss10 stones in a template is easier", so that is the design proof or transfer they get, and it has too much space. Customers who are dealing with higher end clients want stones packed as tight as they can get them, for that popping bling effect.

Now I have never used Sticky Flock, so my opinion may not matter, but if spacing is a concern, I would definitely go with ss06 stones, OR, as RubyRed stated, you could adjust the sizing of the center of the "D", or move the two rows of ss10 in the "D" closer to each other and use all ss10 in the center of the "D" to make it look a little more uniform. Either way, it is a great piece of work.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Thank you all for your input... When I design I go with what looks the best but often what looks best to me often is not production friendly so it's a give and take always....

This design was challenging production wise because of the 4 colors... No matter if you are using templates or an automated machine of some sort...

If you look at all the detail lines in the diamond shape... I have to fudge some from the original artwork because there was too much detail in the design to do in ss6 stones... If I switch all those out to ss10 then I have to lose even more detail....

Initially I always get permission to use or not use more than on size stone per color... Generally designs like this one will look better with two stone sizes with all the details and points in the design but that comes at a cost.... But I get worried that if I use all ss10 for ease and simplicity that a customer will not like the design due to the limitations of using one size stone... 

I should do this design in all ss10 and I think the result would be a very different looking design overall... In certain areas you can fudge and maybe not notice much... But other areas are really going to stand out...

If you look at the attached Afro design... 

It was a bugger to design because I used to different size stones... But I really think the two sizes of stones adds to the look...

Same with the attached Ozark Decal Design... Super simple design really... But I went crazy 3 stone sizes on the text... But I think the 3 stone sizes really adds to the look...

In the end though my customer went with basic Arial Text one ss6 stones only... LOL

I guess Carol I need to find more high end clients as most of my designs are multiple stone sizes...


Kevin


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## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

I know a few people aren't going to want to hear this, but I'm a DAS customer and use their entire system. Your design could easily be done in SS10 (or SS06) with the stones set at .2mm apart using their new WonderFlock and the Transfer Application System. WonderFlock is the best material I've ever used, and I've made my own flock since flock became a thing. I think I even gleaned a few tips for making it from you, Kevin. SS06es go in beautifully with the microfiber sponge, and the TAS makes registration fast and consistent. IIRC, you're not a fan, but I'm just putting it out there as a suggestion. DAS sells both WonderFlock and the TAS to everyone, you don't have to be a customer or buy the rest of the components. And check out the price of WonderFlock, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. 

However, I struggled with a cheap cutter for 2 years and finally broke down and bought a Jaguar IV. Because that's what DAS builds their system around, I literally brought home some WonderFlock and it cut and weeded perfectly the first time, without test cutting, based on the settings from their instruction sheet. 

This was an experimental cut using a 60 degree zcut blade (you have to use a Zcut Blade with WonderFlock), stone size for SS10 is set at 3mm, .13mm spacing, single cut, and I maybe had to pick out 10 holes out of 731. That one above it had 4774 stones and I picked about 20. When the stones are set farther apart or double cut, I don't have any weeding to do. (I'd post the picture of the 5780 stone design that weeded absolutely perfectly, but I'm sure you all have figured out what I was trying to do here, and I can't give away how I perfected it.) This template did not fall apart either, except for that corner (because I had run the pinch rollers over it previously).








This isn't meant to be a DAS commercial, even though I guess it is, I'm just trying to show you that you don't have to sacrifice anything or go crazy with multiple sizes. 
1. Design it once, 
2. Cut it once (per color), 
3. Go design more stuff, 
4. Profit.


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## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

That Afro design is beautiful, by the way; and the multi size designs are great too, but would throw me into a serious OCD attack.


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