# Beginner screen printing out of small apartment.



## sgl825 (Dec 24, 2013)

Hey Everyone,

I want to start screen printing some of my designs. I'm on a very tight budget and live in a small apartment. Therefore, space/money for big equipment is not exactly available. I was thinking about using mod podge as a blocker (unless you guys think this is crazy). Photo emulsion seems complicated to do in my small apt. I've been doing a lot of research, however, I still need some guidance/opinions.

Can you dry water based ink with a hair dryer and iron?
What is your choice of wb ink? (that is also good on dark shirts)
What is a good wb metallic gold ink? 

side note: a lot of my designs are intricate. I'm looking for thin clean lines as opposed to thick lines. Should I just scrap the screen printing idea and go for a heat press method?

Thank you in advance for you advice.


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

"welcome to the party pal!" (my fave die hard bruce willis quote).

i live in a one bedroom. i bought a 4 color silver one station press from ryonet. which i attached to a very strong built thick table i found one day on the street someone was throwing out. i push it up against the wall when not using which saves on space and pull it out into my 'work' section when printing.

you will have to buy screens and if you are doing water-based printing (which is the majority of the work i do along with discharge printing) they will have to be of a higher mesh count, above 200 at least. they run you about $20-25 a piece. higher mesh count for higher detail. then there is plastisol which needs to be printed through a lower mesh count 110 - 155 typically but i just printed a run today using a 220 mesh screen and came out fine (smaller print on design so i needer higher mesh). 

i use my bathroom to coat and expose my screens. remember the screens have to be nice and clean and dehazed before coating. if you are going to do a lot of water based printing you'll want to use a water resist emulsion or a hybrid. ryonet sells this as well. i coat the screens with the window blocked out and a bug light (yellow) put into my bathroom light instead of white. darkroom. then i place the screen(s) in a light safe cardboard box (use duct tape on all seams of box) seal it and cover with a dark blanket and let it sit covered in my 'work area' section of my living room and let dry overnite (the longer the better). to expose the screens you will need your artwork output to film. either inkjet acceptable film or sometimes i use my vinyl cutter to cut out on a dark vinyl. i hang a 500 watt halogen worklite on my shower curtain rod and have the screen balancing between toilet and tub. the light is 16" above the screen and exposed for 13 min 30 secs. i wash out the screen using a small sink hose the has the female side which attaches to the shower head connection (of course take off the shower head) then once rinsed out completely and up to snuff let air dry on the 2 rungs under my drafting table.

then it's printing time. no, a hairdryer will not work but i've heard of people air drying their shirts using WB ink so..........

i use a heat gun bought of ebay (i bought both work light and heat gun both by dewalt for 1/2 the price and they were brand new, just open boxes).

print the shirt and dry right on the pallet (oh yeah pallets......you can make your own. the silver press comes with a 14"16" regular size one, but i've made my own oversized pallet and bought a zip-up hoodie pallet for like $55 off ebay). even after this drying process on pallet i make sure shirts are completely cured by throwing in industrial dryer in the basement of my building that runs hot for like 25 mins.

chemicals, inks, emulsions, screens etc. it ain't all that cheap but the results are soooo much better than any heat press method that's available.

i have a heta press an vinyl cutter which i make one or two color shirts for customers that want less than what i offer as a minimum doing screen printing. 

either way you'll have to go into biz officially to set up wholesale accounts with tshirt distributors.

hope this helps.


----------



## iSukGolf (Dec 10, 2013)

Like Tim above, I coat my screens in the bathroom. But I dry them there. I have found the heat gun from a distance helps with drying times. Also like Tim I have the 4 color silver. I only attach the arms I need. Just too big and heavy otherwise. I don't have a permeant table, so I clamp my press with so clamps I got at home depot. 

If your exposure is correct and your positive is dark enough (I print two), then the shower head with a hose attachment is more than enough. 

It's relatively easy to put up and take down, now.


----------



## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

One way to handle screens is to coat them and use childrens wooden blocks on the corners to keep the screens off the floor and separate. Dry them in a closet and store them in a light tight card board box till needed.


----------



## sgl825 (Dec 24, 2013)

Thank you guys so much for your advice!


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

ShirlandDesign said:


> One way to handle screens is to coat them and use childrens wooden blocks on the corners to keep the screens off the floor and separate. Dry them in a closet and store them in a light tight card board box till needed.


exactly what i do when coating multiple screens. i found a big box that someone in our building tossed that had an office chair in it so it's long and wide and got some height to it. i tape little pieces of wood carefully to the corners of the screens with duct ape. carefully meaning i've found that if the wood or tape get's onto any area with emulsion on it when taking it off if the wood or tape has dried onto it it can pull the screen away from the frame.

but yeah i tape the wood onto the corners then i tape the whole set of screens together (so as when placing in the box everything stays on top of one another without the chance of them sliding around and falling onto one of the other screen's wet emulsion. then put the whole package in the box tape it light tight and cover it with a dark old blanket. my bathroom is really small so a lot of times to transfer wet screens into the box you have to tip things either which way to get things done. i've found out to leave the box outside the bathroom in my hallway with all immediate lights off and tape it open so when you come out of the darkroom/bathroom you just slide the whole package of screens into it (wood block sides down of course) and tape up the box quickly the seconds it takes to do that will no affect the emulsion in exposing it in anyway.

wish i had room in a closet. too many skeletons in there....


----------



## iSukGolf (Dec 10, 2013)

miktoxic said:


> wish i had room in a closet. too many skeletons in there....


Lol @ Tim ... same here!

Here is how I coat my screens in a limited space ... 1 x 6 on the floor, lean the screen against the wall and coat away. The 1 x 6 prevents the screen from pushing forward against the wall. I put 1x2 in between layers ... I have not done more than 4 screens at one time. I then get my heat gun and FROM A DISTANCE help them dry. It takes a few hours of time to get them ready ... It takes about 6 hours to coat, dry and expose.

I had not thought of the card box idea. 

Wow I thought I was the only one so tight on space!


----------



## joey1320 (Feb 21, 2012)

Good info on this thread. Thanks!

Sent from my HTC One X using T-Shirt Forums


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

iSukGolf said:


> Lol @ Tim ... same here!
> 
> Here is how I coat my screens in a limited space ... 1 x 6 on the floor, lean the screen against the wall and coat away. The 1 x 6 prevents the screen from pushing forward against the wall. I put 1x2 in between layers ... I have not done more than 4 screens at one time. I then get my heat gun and FROM A DISTANCE help them dry. It takes a few hours of time to get them ready ... It takes about 6 hours to coat, dry and expose.
> 
> ...


merry xmas everybody. i do the same thing when coating my screens except i do it in my bath tub. that way if anything spills there's a water source right there to do the clean up. then i do the wooden blocks and the cardboard box thing.

i tried the heat gun thing the first time i exposed a screen and got too close and the heat melted the screen. laying them flat and letting them dry in a light free box for that same amount of time works for me without a heat gun, especially now when the temp goes down and the radiators in my apt. are on full blast. i'll watch tv and turn the box to different sides 2 hrs each. and when i need one out of the box and they aren't totally dry i'll use a hairdryer (in the darkroom/bathroom) to dry them out which takes about 3 or 4 minutes. i don't have the patience or arm strength anymore to be sitting in a cramped area trying to dry my screens in a rush. just know beforehand that it might take 24 hours and plan your schedule and printing time around it.

sure i can get jobs done in 2-3 days, but i always tell my customers 2 weeks (because of apparel delivery time, graphic design and output of films, coating and drying of screens and then exposing washing out and taping up).

when you tell them 2 weeks and they get their product in 4 days they are pretty impressed and are likely to work with you again. (i'm not talking about the people that expect you to be competitive with customink.com or $6 tshirts or whatever) i'm talking about local customers that you meet face to face with and know the diffeerence of supporting a local small biz compared to a muli-million dollar conglomerate that will sell you shirts at the cheapest price but have no customer interaction.


----------



## ukracer (Feb 11, 2010)

Do you guys make any money working from an apartment doing small quantity runs?


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

ukracer said:


> Do you guys make any money working from an apartment doing small quantity runs?


what is small quantity in your eyes?


----------



## ukracer (Feb 11, 2010)

10---29 ish


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

ukracer said:


> 10---29 ish


well buying from wholesale distributors you get a better discount when you order dozens of the same size/color shirt, so there has to be a point where you say yes or no to a customer. 

and it's also what do you think your hourly rate or time is worth. remember the steps involved in just creating a screen. the time it takes to do the graphics and output. the time for cleanup and the charge on your electric bill for running a heat source to dry/cure the shirts.

i bought a roland gx-24 vinyl cutter and a heat press years before i got into doing silkscreen (even though i had worked for people in the past both printing and preparing artwork) just to do shirts. but it is limited also by cost and time and overhead and the finished product is not the same in feel on the shirt itself.

so when doing a small run like you suggest it'd have to be one color vinyl on heat press with the pricing by piece not dozen.

the charge to the customer would be pretty high to make a profit.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I don't have to buy in dozens or case quantity to get case pricing. Wholesale blank to me isn't the issue with screen printing. Its all the screen making,setup, cleanup where it get expensive to do low quantity. I do have some customers that will demand screen printing with lower quantities and will pay the price to get what they want. 

There are some vinyl options that are as good if not better feel then plastisol if done right. I exclusively use Thermalflex plus any witha second 10-15 second press its a soft as a light plastisol print. 

With that said there are some stuff impossible to use vinyl on. I get some car guys wanting a custom shirt usually 4-6 colors where I take a picture of their car and cartoon it the screen print. They usually never want more then 6-12 shirts and some only want 1. I have had e them pay $200 for 1 shirt. I guess when they spent $30,000 or more on a car that sits in a garage most of the time and get it out 6 times a year. Mostly to show it off $200-$400 for a few shirt is like a drop in the bucket. 

I have a small operation but I have a 16x20 garage and have a 6/6 sidewinder 12' conveyor dryer, single point exposure unit, washout booth, 2 screen boxes, workbench and a Newman stretch table. For thoes doing this indoors in your living space I hope you have some ventilation even if its your bath fan or a fan in a window. I have a vent on my dryer and am installing a large bath vent fan. Yes most of the green chemicals and even the plastisol and WB ink are a real low health risk if let build up and continually live in the same area without ventilation your risk goes up greatly.


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

sben763 said:


> I don't have to buy in dozens or case quantity to get case pricing. Wholesale blank to me isn't the issue with screen printing. Its all the screen making,setup, cleanup where it get expensive to do low quantity. I do have some customers that will demand screen printing with lower quantities and will pay the price to get what they want.
> 
> There are some vinyl options that are as good if not better feel then plastisol if done right. I exclusively use Thermalflex plus any witha second 10-15 second press its a soft as a light plastisol print.
> 
> ...


well i know i wasn't going to live forever and the lack of ventilation due to no circulation (live in the deep corner section of apt. building alcove......abd curing discharge gives off some nasty chemical smell. i don't know about the other inks.

but hey after doing what i've been doing for years and what i've been through in my life, just chalk it up to another risk. just like crossing the street.


----------



## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Nike has successfully branded polyester a "performance" fabric.
Most of my life it was just considered cheap and tacky. Having said that there are some pretty cool things they are doing with plastic clothing these days. We have a 12 piece minimum and never, well rarely say no, we just price very high for short run stuff and push the onezy, twozy folks towards a dye subbed poly.


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Nike has successfully branded polyester a "performance" fabric.
> Most of my life it was just considered cheap and tacky. Having said that there are some pretty cool things they are doing with plastic clothing these days. We have a 12 piece minimum and never, well rarely say no, we just price very high for short run stuff and push the onezy, twozy folks towards a dye subbed poly.


ok, now i'm interested in exactly what that means. so you print performance wear blanks with silkscreen process or using a heat press vinyl for nylon/poly?

merry xmas!

-tim.


----------



## ukracer (Feb 11, 2010)

miktoxic said:


> so when doing a small run like you suggest it'd have to be one color vinyl on heat press with the pricing by piece not dozen.
> 
> the charge to the customer would be pretty high to make a profit.


This is what concerns me. How many potential customers want more than 30 shirts the same at the same time?? THIS is why I have not seen screen printing as a viable option worth bothering with. Even stag and hen parties are not screen print viable.

That said DTG is expensive and not got a good reputation for the hand on the garment. Certainly nothing like screen printing. In fact I have used vinyl that is better than DTG in my humble opinion. I am seriously starting to think an A3 laser is a better option and outsource any screen runs I get.


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

ukracer said:


> This is what concerns me. How many potential customers want more than 30 shirts the same at the same time?? THIS is why I have not seen screen printing as a viable option worth bothering with. Even stag and hen parties are not screen print viable.
> 
> That said DTG is expensive and not got a good reputation for the hand on the garment. Certainly nothing like screen printing. In fact I have used vinyl that is better than DTG in my humble opinion. I am seriously starting to think an A3 laser is a better option and outsource any screen runs I get.


but remember these days of the internet your customers will have the same option from companies that you'd outsource to, so you trying to make money on top of that, why would they choose you?

purchasing a cutter and heat press will allow you to do the one color jobs at their same price if not cheaper.

if they went online to one of these sites that offer screen printed shirts at no minimum, their cost would be very high as well.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

ukracer said:


> This is what concerns me. How many potential customers want more than 30 shirts the same at the same time?? THIS is why I have not seen screen printing as a viable option worth bothering with. Even stag and hen parties are not screen print viable.
> 
> That said DTG is expensive and not got a good reputation for the hand on the garment. Certainly nothing like screen printing. In fact I have used vinyl that is better than DTG in my humble opinion. I am seriously starting to think an A3 laser is a better option and outsource any screen runs I get.


This may work for you. My average order is between 50-100 shirts. It will depend on how many colors. If its a 12 shirt job and 1 color depending on artwork, size a lot of times I still screen it. It all depends on the individual's operation. I keep 24-36 screens ready at all times and have about 100+ roller frames to cycle though so I can have 36 ready and save up to 36 to reclaim while being able to catalog 36 screens until I make sure the customer has everything they need. When a customer wants small orders I just pass on the cost to them. Don't get complaints about pricing often. If I do I will simply invite them to get pricing elsewhere. 

I personally hate cutting, weeding and pressing and some artwork is just not possible with vinyl


----------



## ukracer (Feb 11, 2010)

sben763 said:


> This may work for you. My average order is between 50-100 shirts. It will depend on how many colors. If its a 12 shirt job and 1 color depending on artwork, size a lot of times I still screen it. It all depends on the individual's operation. I keep 24-36 screens ready at all times and have about 100+ roller frames to cycle though so I can have 36 ready and save up to 36 to reclaim while being able to catalog 36 screens until I make sure the customer has everything they need. When a customer wants small orders I just pass on the cost to them. Don't get complaints about pricing often. If I do I will simply invite them to get pricing elsewhere.
> 
> I personally hate cutting, weeding and pressing and some artwork is just not possible with vinyl


Thanks for all the info. I am intrigued how you work from an apartment with a 100 screens. Thats also a lot of money 2.5k sitting there in screens. wow

What sort of customers are buying 100 shirts of one design? 
I can see that 12 shirts of one colour is actually fairly cheap to produce but labour intensive for small reward. But if orders are slow then I can see how you would be able to do it!


----------



## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> ok, now i'm interested in exactly what that means. so you print performance wear blanks with silkscreen process or using a heat press vinyl for nylon/poly?


Simply print out a mirrored design on transfer paper with Sublijet inks and heat press onto a polyester "performance" T shirt.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I don't work from a apt but I only have. 16x20 garage with a 6x6 press 12' conveyor dryer 2 dry boxes single point exposure unit. 

I buy big lots of Used frames. Pick the best either sell the usable or scrap the trash. I don't have anywhere near 2.5k in the frames but I do use the Newman roller mesh exclusively because how tough it is so I do have money wrapped up in mesh.


----------



## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

sben763 said:


> I personally hate cutting, weeding and pressing and some artwork is just not possible with vinyl


oh i agree 100%. but like i saidif it's an EASY job with text like 'HAPPY 50TH REUNION' and they only want 8 shirts i'm not going to take the time to coat, dry, expose then print, dry and cleanup for a price that i need to make it worthwhile which will scare the customer away.

i don't have that kind of room to always have screens at the ready. my bedroom if full of my computer gear, a 42" inkjet printer, my gx-24 and 2 desktop printers both wide format, which leaves room for my bed my dog's bed and a bike hanging over my 42" tv which is on one of 2 dressers.

my living room is presentable with a recliner drafting table couch coffee table another 42" tv and stereo gear, my girlfriends PC work area a locker for my inks and frames and my four color silver press.

in other words there's not an inch more of space available in this place. 

don't ask me what's in my closets (3).

man i long for the days when i lived in ohio and we had a 2 car garage 'barn' with work area downstairs next to the cars and an upper level with 2 other rooms.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

ukracer said:


> What sort of customers are buying 100 shirts of one design?
> I can see that 12 shirts of one colour is actually fairly cheap to produce but labour intensive for small reward. But if orders are slow then I can see how you would be able to do it!


I do a lot of school orders and they are almost always 100+. Volleyball, basketball, choir, spirit wear ect. Then there is charities they are almost always good for 100-200 shirts. Gun stores. That's the key to find places that will order the quantities. Some schools are hard to get into and when the PTO changes officers you have to go introduce yourself right away or risk loosing that school. Sometimes a new person comes in and already has someone they already use. A 1 color job with the time I have into reclaim coating and exposure, not really much setup and I'll only tape the bottom of a screen for 12-24 shirts. I will have right around 1 hr into it all. The key is to find quick ways. I use photopolymer emulsion and a single point. My longest exposure time is 1:00 and that will soon change as I discovered the unit I had bought used and converted has high iron glass which substantially cuts down on the UV. I always give the 1-2 week timeline and make sure I'm doing several screens for several jobs at the same time or it not worth it to me. Just like I always clean at least 6-12 screens at a time. I use to do all my work in a spare bedroom with a 4/1 press and 24 roller frames. At that time it was more like 2-3 hrs for the same job.


----------



## QuinnTemporaryArt (Sep 18, 2021)

sben763 said:


> This may work for you. My average order is between 50-100 shirts. It will depend on how many colors. If its a 12 shirt job and 1 color depending on artwork, size a lot of times I still screen it. It all depends on the individual's operation. I keep 24-36 screens ready at all times and have about 100+ roller frames to cycle though so I can have 36 ready and save up to 36 to reclaim while being able to catalog 36 screens until I make sure the customer has everything they need. When a customer wants small orders I just pass on the cost to them. Don't get complaints about pricing often. If I do I will simply invite them to get pricing elsewhere.
> 
> I personally hate cutting, weeding and pressing and some artwork is just not possible with vinyl


I think what people are missing in concept is that a vinyl shirt isn't always going to cut it (pun intended) for the the customer. Some people are really trying to order small batch screen prints, not vinyl shirts, and people can be disappointed with the thick layers of plastic on their shirts. I do small run batches on vinyl and sublimation, and am working on getting my at home screen printing going, but I am sure to at least make the distinction in how the printing methods differ and what that means for the shirt.


----------



## QuinnTemporaryArt (Sep 18, 2021)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Simply print out a mirrored design on transfer paper with Sublijet inks and heat press onto a polyester "performance" T shirt.


Sublimation sounds that easy, but I have been having difficulty with a few things. Mainly press lines, which isn't as easily preventable as some youtube howto videos make it seem. This might be cause for a seperate thread. After much trial and error I figure I probably need either a much nicer heat press than my current Cricut Easy Press (tried a couple different heat presses within the $300 range and have had the same results so far) and need to mess with very tight nit polyester (either that or 50/50 fabric which doesn't stain as well) in order to prevent permenant heat creases in the fabric. anything else you could suggest? I use heat resistant cushions and pads but that hasnt worked.


----------



## ukracer (Feb 11, 2010)

QuinnTemporaryArt said:


> Sublimation sounds that easy, but I have been having difficulty with a few things. Mainly press lines, which isn't as easily preventable as some youtube howto videos make it seem. This might be cause for a seperate thread. After much trial and error I figure I probably need either a much nicer heat press than my current Cricut Easy Press (tried a couple different heat presses within the $300 range and have had the same results so far) and need to mess with very tight nit polyester (either that or 50/50 fabric which doesn't stain as well) in order to prevent permenant heat creases in the fabric. anything else you could suggest? I use heat resistant cushions and pads but that hasnt worked.


That's a lot of the problem. You really do need a decent heat press for sublimation. But your ink "really" matters..
Check out ink4inkjet.co UK and look for Subpro DS. You get a free custom profile as well.

Sadly you really do need to get a decent press. Even a many years old Adkins is better than the cheap Chinese garbage and the hobby stuff like cricut .


----------

