# Getting started in dye sub.



## waipahe (Feb 25, 2007)

Hey Everyone. VERY new to all of this, so please bear with me. 

I would like to get started in the dye sub business, but not really sure on things yet. I've been reading a lot lately trying to figure what things I would need to get started. I know for sure that I need a good 16 x 20 heat press, transfer paper, ect. I have a printer which is an Epson r2400. Will this printer be sufficient for doing the job? I also own a GX-24 vinyl cutter and have Corel X3 as a graphics program to work out of. Not sure if the cutter has any bearing in this venture.....but thought I would add it in just in case.

I would like to be able to do it all!LOL! Shirts, mugs, stickers, hats, plates, ect. So if anybody can advise me as to what I would need to get started.....it would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. ~Curt~


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## waipahe (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow! 6 days, 90 views and not one response? Were the questions that stupid?LOL! Thanks anyway.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

The questions were not stupid...I have been in Rhinestone training sessions and not online...I am not familiar with your printer but I would suggest you NOT use it IF it has more than 4 colors...you do not need more than CYMK for sublimation...the extra two or four colors for some printers are excessive to your needs...besides I did not like the maintenance on the Epson and the clogging issues that WILL crop up. I have converted to the Ricoh GX7000 which has four carts with almost as much ink as the CIS for Epsons..I think you can buy a GX7000 AND sublimation inks from Conde for just a bit more than just the inks for the Epson..around $1100..it will print 11x17 out of the box or with the extra tray...($149) you can do 13x19.. OR you can get the GX5050 for a bit less...it is faster than the GX7000 but only does 8.5x14. your software is sufficient for this...the vinyl cutter is not needed for sublimation.

hope this helps


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## SweetExpression (Apr 22, 2009)

Hey Curtis, 

There are no stupid questions when you're first getting started. I've only been doing dye sub since September and it's a great way to do full-color on all kinds of different substrates. I'm not sure about Epson printers, I've got a Ricoh GX7000 and have had no issues so far. A clamshell heat press is fine for flat items like t-shirts, tiles and mousepads, but you will need a cap press for hats. Options for mugs include a mug press or a convection oven with mug wraps. I'm not doing mugs or caps yet, but I will probably will do them in the future depending on customer demand. If you are serious about shirts, you should definitely look at the wide-format options like the GX7000. It makes a huge difference on shirts when you can print 11x17 instead of only 8.5x11. My advice would be to figure out exactly what you want to do with dye sub so you won't invest in equipment that you are not using. Be sure you are using the printer regularly. Don't let it sit idle for long periods because the ink will clog the print heads. I print at least every other day and have not had a problem yet. Anyway, sorry about the rambling. This forum is an amazing source of information and is the main reason I got started in dye sub.

Mike


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## Susie (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi Curtis,
I would highly recommend the Epson 78xx 24"
Then you will never have to monkey around with a CIS and you can buy your ink by the liter and operate more efficiently and in the long run, more cost-effectively. That size will serve you as you grow in the future as well.
Good luck.


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

Curtis-

Also, another thing to keep in mind is what type of images will you be producing?

Vector art - Logos, mascots, team jerseys

Art rendering and/or photography - Very passionate about their colors.

Vector art you will only need CMYK for optimal results.

If you plan on pleasing galleries and artists with your renderings....you will need at least 7 colors.

TRUST ME....I have tested workflows by many who print CMYK and the difference between 4 colors and 7 colors or more is night and day in the transition areas.

This area can make all the difference between getting a gallery / museum contract or not.

Define your target market. If you desire major artists you will need a very profiled workflow. If you desire team jerseys business..a 4 color generic profile workflow should get the job done.

Don't forget, you can please vector artists with 7 colors....I have yet to see a renown watercolor artist pleased with four colors.

Just information to think on.

Jae


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## synchtec (Sep 21, 2009)

Hello Jae,

I just purchased an Epson 7880 primarily to be used for sublimation printing. I was actually looking at focusing on jerseys. After reading the thread, is it just a waste to use an 8 color printer solely for sublimation printing?


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

synchtec said:


> Hello Jae,
> 
> I just purchased an Epson 7880 primarily to be used for sublimation printing. I was actually looking at focusing on jerseys. After reading the thread, is it just a waste to use an 8 color printer solely for sublimation printing?


For the sublimation printing of jerseys with vector art...yes it is.

If you are doing jerseys, you can profile and configure a 7880 with dual CMYK for lightning fast printing.

Jae


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

synchtec said:


> Hello Jae,
> 
> I just purchased an Epson 7880 primarily to be used for sublimation printing. I was actually looking at focusing on jerseys. After reading the thread, is it just a waste to use an 8 color printer solely for sublimation printing?


I have heard this both ways. In talking to Sawgrass ink specialist you could have some gradient issues with a few of the colors on a 4 color CMYK. Also realize you will not use more ink on 8 color then 4 color. Your start up cost would be less but your ink consumption, which is the real cost one should be concerned about doing jerseys, would not be different.


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## Susie (Oct 19, 2007)

On-line Jerseys said:


> I have heard this both ways. In talking to Sawgrass ink specialist you could have some gradient issues with a few of the colors on a 4 color CMYK. Also realize you will not use more ink on 8 color then 4 color. Your start up cost would be less but your ink consumption, which is the real cost one should be concerned about doing jerseys, would not be different.


That is correct! You don't use less ink because you only use 4 colours. You use more of those 4, that's all. In my RIP I turn Light Light Black off as I don't really need it. I keep that nozzle clean with a nozzle check.
My main point of suggesting the 7880 is so you don't have to bother with that CIS mess.


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey All,

Richo or Epson which is the best option for dye sub - Any takers?

Susie would you like to shed a little light on how you work on projects using sublimation and your wide format printer.

Eze


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## Susie (Oct 19, 2007)

Hey Eze,
I can't speak for Ricoh as I have no experience of it, but I've been quite happy with the Epson.

Well, we do all sorts of projects and handle them in different ways. Sometimes we print on ready-made shirts like Vapor. Other times we will design things and sew them ourselves.

*Printing all-over prints, over seams, pockets, zippers or other design details:*
In this case I draft the pattern pieces in Illustrator, then put the artwork on them while they're there. Then output them to the printer. I arrange them in my print layout so as to be as economical as possible with the fabric. Then I press that whole piece on a rectangle of fabric and then cut them out. 

(For non-sewing people) When sewing fabric you need seam allowance (the parts you join together or hem). In order to have an image "match" across the seams we need to take into account the seam allowance. You can add seam allowance in Illustrator and print an outline (a cutting line that gets printed right on the fabric). It is advantageous to do all your artwork and _then_ add seam allowance at the end. It is easier to match and visualize your artwork this way. You can make a copy of your blank pattern draft with a seam allowance and then copy just the seam allowance on top of your working .ai file at the end. This is good if you're just doing one piece of unique art on each t-shirt for example. You don't want to have keep reworking the seam allowance each time.

*Placement Prints:*
If I'm printing a smaller placement print on custom items and it doesn't go over any construction details, then I draw the pattern draft, either by hand or with Illustrator, cut the fabric piece out first, press it with the artwork, then sew it together.

*Work arounds if your press is too small:*
Design the apparel around your limitations. If you have something too big (like a ladies dress for example or a coat) sometimes, the pattern can be designed to fit with what you have. Sleeves can be split, seams added. In other words, break the pattern into smaller pieces. You'll see designer have all kinds of bits and pieces joined together, more often than not. It's a bit trickier of course, with more seams when matching your artwork but it's extremely cool.

That's generally the way I approach our projects. I always try different things out. I just made a head to toe all-over Spiderman printed suit for a guy. The artwork didn't match up very well in some places as I did not draft that pattern, it was purchased on the net and drafted by a non-drafter. It worked out quite well really. It pushed our envelope, so to speak! I will post a picture when I get one. I'm still waiting!

Good luck!


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Wow Thanks Susan, 

That was enlightening. What a joy to be back on the forum.

I'm completely sold on the wide format sublimation side of things now. I've been throwing this over in my mind for ages now. I was preparing to make a purchase for a Richo but my breaks are on know, It seems that with the setup you have the options are almost limitless ... almost and sounds like theres fun to be had as well.

How do you deal with the wide format sublimation paper side of things. Are there many suppliers in the U.S??? I'm in the UK so I'm not sure on availability over here.

Did you convert your printer to sublimation or purchase it like that? How easy will it be to convert an epson that may have already been using the standard inks?


My apologies for the wave of questions.


Many Thanks


Ezekiel


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

Converting an Epson (new or existing) isn't difficult. New is better as no cleaning will be necessary. Simply load up your inks and the rest is software and profiling.

Dye-Sub paper in the U.S is widely available.

Yes....wide format is alot of fun (at least for us). You can always go smaller with bigger but you can't go bigger with smaller.

Ohhh...I'm not answering for Susan, just doing my hourly browsing of the forum. 

Jae


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey J,

You comments are most welcome and appreciated.

Thanks 

Eze


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey All

Does anyone know if the older Epson 7600s can handle sublimation ink. Has anyone heard of this being done before?


Thanks Loads

Eze


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Help Me Pls - Is it possible.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Yes, it works great.
You must make sure the printer is in good condition
before loading sublimation inks. I recommend cleaning 
solution first.


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Susie said:


> In my RIP I turn Light Light Black off as I don't really need it. I keep that nozzle clean with a nozzle check.


Susie can you shed a little bit of light on this. What are the benefits (is it just mainly ink conservation)..how doe this effect the prints... and do you ever end up using the light light black.


Ezekiel


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey All,


Is it possible to load just the carts that I need with ink and leave the rest empty (Will my printer print that way). Or is that something that can only be manipulated with a RIP.



Susie said:


> In my RIP I turn Light Light Black off as I don't really need it.


I'm thinking since Susie doesn't use some inks this may assist in the pocket area considering the price of consumables - if not then oh well! It was worth a try 



charles95405 said:


> I would suggest you NOT use it IF it has more than 4 colors...you do not need more than CYMK for sublimation...the extra two or four colors for some printers are excessive to your needs...





JaeAmera said:


> TRUST ME....I have tested workflows by many who print CMYK and the difference between 4 colors and 7 colors or more is night and day in the transition areas....... If you desire team jerseys business..a 4 color generic profile workflow should get the job done....


Four colours seems to be good for the entry level sublimation and print so I was thinking there must be a way around filling up all the carts of my 7600 with sub ink


Any Ideas are much appreciated... pls just dont tell me to go and buy a RIP for £2000+

--
Ezekiel


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Not sure why you would concerned using 4 or 8 cartrdiges if only using 4 colors. You will not use any more or less ink having the ink in 4 or 8 cartridges. The cost will be the same.


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## jakole50 (Apr 23, 2009)

I am considering Dye Sub but still have a few questions that I cannot seem to find answers to:

1. Is the Dye Sub transfer paper require cutting like standard heat transfer paper does?

2. Is there an adhesive or coating on the paper that covers the ink on the shirt?

3. Is there any "hand" feeling on a t-shirt after transferring an image onto it.

4. Is there a solution for printing on black garments

5. Is Dye Sub better or worse then standard pigment Heat Transfers

I think that is all for now. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank YOU!


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

jakole50 said:


> I am considering Dye Sub but still have a few questions that I cannot seem to find answers to:
> 
> 1. Is the Dye Sub transfer paper require cutting like standard heat transfer paper does?
> 
> ...


Question 1: No

Question 2: No

Question 3: No

Question 4: No...well, Yes, but it is unprofessional and does not give the characteristics dye-sub is intended for.

Question 5: Subject to personal opinion

Hope this helps 

Jae


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## jakole50 (Apr 23, 2009)

JaeAmera said:


> Question 1: No
> 
> Question 2: No
> 
> ...


Your reply does help. Thank you!


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hello Everybody,

Thank you On-line Jerseys and Jae for your comments. 

My Q is if I'm using an Epson 7600 and suppliers do not provide a light black (Dye Sub Ink) what advice do you guys give for this scenario???... 

In fact as I type this I'm thinking to myself ....

Does it make sense to buy just cyan, black, yellow and magenta and distribute the magenta cyan and black ink into the respective carts that ask for a different version of themselves 

any comments would be lovely

Just to clarify

Cyan ink >>>> Cyan and Light Cyan cart
Black ink >>>> photo black and light black cart
Magenta >>>> Magenta and Light Magenta cart


Thanks All

--
Ezekiel


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

We provide light black in Artainium for the 7600/9600.
You must use the correct ink set and ICC profile.


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## Susie (Oct 19, 2007)

Wow Eze, I just checked in - you've been busy! Hope you're getting the answers you need.
You might want to shell out a few more quid for the new Epson 7880. It has the new teflon head. I don't know if it makes much difference in clogging, but probably worth a shot. You have to have the right ink in the right carts. I have LLBlack turned off on the advice of my technician (that guy that set my RIP up - I use Evolution from Digifab). I don't think it makes a hoot of difference in dye sub - I think it's mainly for photographs or whatever. I've had it on and off - I can't tell any difference. It doesn't save you money in any case. I think the wider you can go with your printer, the better; then you are less limited. We're rapidly outgrowing the 7800 series but you can still do many, many things with it.

The Epsons will not print with empty carts. I have 220ml extended carts but the printer thinks they're 110 and complains every time they get half empty and it stops printing. I find that whole chip resetting business quite annoying about the Epsons. Ditto on the maintenance tank. Epson likes to try to force you to buy new cartridges and tanks every five minutes (while destroying the environment at the same time - so irresponsible). For the smaller Epsons there is a free software program that resets carts/tanks but it is not geared towards the wider format printers.


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Thanks Again guys for all the infos. I'll try and keep the forum updated with my progress.


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## racewayphoto (Feb 7, 2010)

Just to chime in...I working with a Epson 9600 44" with 7 color setup using the Sawgrass Sublim inks. Still working on setting up custom profiles...any help or suggestions??


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

racewayphoto said:


> working with a Epson 9600 44" with 7 color setup using the Sawgrass Sublim inks. Still working on setting up custom profiles.


Hey J 

Just out of curiosity, are you using a RIP?

Thanks

--
Ezekiel


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## racewayphoto (Feb 7, 2010)

Right now...no I am not


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey J,

Sorry for the great void between messages...  It has been a little hectic around here.. How are you getting on with the profiling? It has ben said that some of the suppliers of sub ink do also have profiles - might be worth a try to ask your ink supplier have you tried that already???


--
Ezekiel


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## racewayphoto (Feb 7, 2010)

Supplier has no profiles for my setup. They either have them for RIP software (I'm using the Epson driver right now) or for a 4-color setup (I am using 7) But I did find someone in CA they does custom profiles for $35.


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Ok Sounds like your sorted then  !!

--
Eze


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