# Giving up on laser for mugs, what package should I look for (dye sub)



## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

Hello, today I tried again to do some mugs, I bought a new Photo-Trans ImageClip for mugs. Same **** that the previous Mugs n More. Five more mugs ruined. 
So I think I am giving up on using my laser printer for doing mugs. I am so frustrated 
Tried different pressures, times, temperatures and nothing really work.
I already ruined over twenty or more mugs before, trying to learn how to do it. But I don't think I am that stupid. Probably 9 or 10 were successfully done off a box of 36. 
This time a customer asked for some mugs, and it didn't work.
I have read that many people are using their laser printer for mugs, and just wondering what I am doing wrong.
BUT now I am willing to jump to a TRULY sub dye (mug making ) system. So I am asking for some help on what package (if any) I can get for around $1000. I already have several Epson printer, among them a C88+, that I could use as a dedicated mugs printer.

A am using a mugs press off eBay, so probably that is something to consider to replace.

I am all ears.

Thank you.

P.s I know it has been discussed so many times before, but technology changes, and there may be a good deal somewhere I am not aware of.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

dood, over here on the aircraft carrier .........err UK ( u.s. navy joke) 
we are told that laser is for soft use not hard.
Mugs are hard.
We are advised to go for a dye sub set up and I see no reason why that should be any different on your side of the pond. Check out on line auction sites and look for small printer options, why spend the big bucks.


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## mtnbike45 (Jan 24, 2008)

We use Printa machines for sublimation


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I use a c88+ with artanium inks from conde and have never had a problem. (other than once my husband put the image upside down


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

I have also tried the "mugs n' more" (from Neenah) and the "multi-trans" (from forever) and I had the same problems. Really frustrating. I was thinking that laser transfer for mugs would be cheaper to do than dye-sub because with laser mug transfers, one should be able to print on regular type mugs, not the coated special ones for dye-sub. But maybe I was wrong because I noted that Forever Germany also sells mugs for their papers. Could this be the case? I also noted that HIX sells some sort of a "mug glazer" machine which you use after pressing on the mug press. Could this be a requirement for the "mugs n' more" transfer papers? I have the "non-contact" type mug press from Forever and I'll post the video later.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

vctradingcubao said:


> II'll post the video later.


Look forward to seeing it


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

vctradingcubao said:


> I'll post the video later.


I loo forward to seeing that.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

mtnbike45 said:


> We use Printa machines for sublimation


I'm not aware of this what is this machine please
tony


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Check out the video pages on the forever website:

http://www.forever-ots.com/


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I too am in the sublimation camp. It is just too difficult for me to get consistent results from transfer
paper unto mugs.


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

Conde_David said:


> I too am in the sublimation camp. It is just too difficult for me to get consistent results from transfer
> paper unto mugs.


Is it just you (and for that matters, me) or is it the way it works (or doesn't) ?
Even sublimation is not very consistent from one transfer to the next?
Out of a box of 36 I transferred only about 10 mugs, with laser transfer , Mugs' n More, first, and then PhotoTrans Imageclip for mugs.
How are done those nice very professional looking mugs I see everywhere?


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## Pyroshouse (Mar 4, 2008)

I use Dye sublimation, never had a problem with the mugs from Cactus Coat. As far as the laser
goes any laser transfer must be cured after pressing, for mugs you can use a mug glazer, for other flat items an electric stove set to 400 degrees for 6-20 minutes depending on the thickness of the material. 
I the flea market I operate out of a guy does laser and uses a heat dryer (blow dryer typ) set up with the spreader tip but then again I use one of his plates to show why mine are so much better. But on mugs get
Cactus coat mugs good consitant coatings, lots of sizes color changing also. Hope this helps.

Joe


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

I use inkjet sublimation onto ceramic mugs and never have any problems at all. If I am understanding the Forever web site information correctly though, they are talking about using laser sublimation onto standard mugs that do not have a sublimation coating? I would not have thought that 'universal glaze' for ceramic mugs existed, so would assume that a laser transfer would be tattoed onto the surface of the glaze, rather than below it? Anyone using laser, I'd be interested to know if that is correct (or not).


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

The Forever folks are referring to normal toners. The mugs still need to be coated but with a softer coating. You press then place the mug in a glazing unit that bakes the toner into the coating.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

DREAMGLASS said:


> I use inkjet sublimation onto ceramic mugs and never have any problems at all. If I am understanding the Forever web site information correctly though


Tw0 or three questions here if I may.

Aree you saying that you inkjet with pigment inks onto mugs please? What mugs normal sublimugs or anything?

Forever, is their laser route a good one for hard goods ? I thought laser was only good for soft applications like t's and mousemats,bags etc.

can someone help before I drown in indecision please


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification David. I am sure a lot of people reading this thread would be a little confused by the Forever videos.

Inkjet sublimation mugs tend to be expensive when compared with other types of printable mugs, but the outstanding print quality makes them well worth the extra expense.

** Special dye sublimation ink in printer, onto coated sublimation mugs. Wish pigment ink did work.**


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Using the Forever paper, you will print with a color laser printer not inkjet using Normal toners.

I am in love with sublimation for hard substrates. I have had limited success with transfer papers onto
hard substrates.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Conde_David said:


> The Forever folks are referring to normal toners. The mugs still need to be coated but with a softer coating. You press then place the mug in a glazing unit that bakes the toner into the coating.


Thanks David. What sort of softer coating could this be? I understand also that Conde sells the Multi-Trans transfer papers from Forever. Are you having limited success with the Multi-trans on hard substrates?


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## BBDee (Aug 19, 2008)

My wife and I have been using Dye-Sub. for about 12 years. We tried all most every new thing that came out. But for hard surfaces, Dye-Sub gives the best image, plus being easy and quick makes up for the cost. If you have a epson use it. But I learned if you plan on doing a lot of printing get a 4000 or 4800. But we also found that if you do not us it often, run a print or two every week. this helps avoid clogging, and other problems. I learned that form David G. An trust me he knows Dye-Sub. I whould have given up years ago if knot for him.

Marty & Belinda


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

Thank you all guys for all the help, I am going to switch to sublimation, now I just have to decide what brand of ink (if there is more than one ) and CIS I have to get. 
How many of you prefer ink in bags rather than the plastic bottles, what is the advantage/con of each?


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

There is a CIS using bags?
I have not heard of this before now.
How does this work please?
What known suppliers of a bag system are there, especially in/for the U.K.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

marcelolopez said:


> Thank you all guys for all the help, I am going to switch to sublimation, now I just have to decide what brand of ink (if there is more than one ).


The 'patent' for all sublimation ink used in small format printers is owned by a company called Sawgrass. Sadly you have no choice, nor any variant in prices.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

DREAMGLASS said:


> The 'patent' for all sublimation ink used in small format printers is owned by a company called Sawgrass. Sadly you have no choice, nor any variant in prices.


I'm sorry but I don't think that's quite true.
I know loads of people buying sub ink that is definately not sawgrass and is one hell of a lot cheaper.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Sawgrass have been known to go through the listings on EBay UK and get them to remove printers with sublimation ink in the systems, unless it can be proved that it is Sawgrass ink in them. That has even applied to people selling their own used printers privately.

Sawgrass regularly takes legal action against anyone attempting to sell sublimation ink used in small format printers. If you do find an alternative source, it is best to keep quiet about it.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

Ok, I won't tell anyone about the tons of cheap non sawgrass sublimation ink being imported into the UK from china by some people


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

It is no secret that sublimation ink from China and other far east countries is distributed on a worldwide basis. There is little that Sawgrass can do against its manufacture in countries where they have no legal powers. However what they can actively do, is to take direct legal action against anyone in other countries, attempting to sell it.

You will find many posts on the Sawgrass 'patent' in these forums. Their monopoly of the small format sublimation ink market is not particularly well received.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

which takes me back to my first point will, sawgrass do not have a worldwide patent.
Of course, I don't know if the chinese stuff is any good as I have not bought any and I don't as yet have a subli syste.
I did take possession of a brand new R285 yesterday as a first step in trying dye sub after reading this thread. I think I'll keep the oki laser though as it must be good for something ?


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## catreid (Jun 3, 2008)

I just started using laser transfer for mugs. The color is not bad but the paper seems to be creasing when I put the mug in the press creating a flaw in the image that has been transfered. I'm using the new magic touch for hard goods. I have a feeling it has to with the pressure. Does anyone have any suggestions?


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

catreid said:


> I just started using laser transfer for mugs. The color is not bad but the paper seems to be creasing when I put the mug in the press creating a flaw in the image that has been transfered. I'm using the new magic touch for hard goods. I have a feeling it has to with the pressure. Does anyone have any suggestions?


Sadly my suggestion would be go with sublimation. It is from my own experience. I trashed a whole box of 36 mugs, still have another 36 pcs stored. 
I just started using sublimation and the results are completely different. You can print wonderful photos and they look really nice.
I know there is a lot of people using laser mugs with good results, it just didn't work with me.


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

BoydRiver said:


> There is a CIS using bags?
> I have not heard of this before now.
> How does this work please?
> What known suppliers of a bag system are there, especially in/for the U.K.


Here in the USA Coastal Business have sub ink in bags, among many others I don't remember now.
Check the section sub ink, and you will find it.
I think they ship to other countries too.


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## BoydRiver (Aug 12, 2008)

marcelolopez said:


> Here in the USA Coastal Business have sub ink in bags, among many others I don't remember now.
> Check the section sub ink, and you will find it.
> I think they ship to other countries too.


 
Thanks Marcelo, googling now.


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## catreid (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks for the input. I guess I'll just play around with what I have and see if I can work it out. I have the transfer paper and some mugs so I might as well play with it. I think eventually I'll move to sublimation for the mugs.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

The real issue is putting all the elements of success together. 

I really don't understand why folks will not use free support to make it work. I strongly recommend not to piece-meal a solution.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Conde_David said:


> I really don't understand why folks will not use free support to make it work. I strongly recommend not to piece-meal a solution.


I think that part of the problem is that not all suppliers are as friendly, or as helpful as yourself David. Some are just happy to take the money and run.

On occasions when I've asked for technical support myself (not printing), I am often greeted with someone that has had little training, or persists trying to sell me something else. 

I think that is the basis of why these forums are so popular. You can get independent advice from people actually using the products. They do not always give accurate advice, but neither do some so called experts either.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I love this forum and your support! That is why I am here.
And Yes, I too learn everyday!


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Conde_David said:


> The Forever folks are referring to normal toners. *The mugs still need to be coated but with a softer coating*. You press then place the mug in a glazing unit that bakes the toner into the coating.


May I ask what this "soft coating" is? Is it some type of a clear acrylic spray that one can buy in a DiY store? Do you recommend a specific brand of this spray?


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

catreid said:


> I think eventually I'll move to sublimation for the mugs.


I did, and I think I am not going back to ...what? throwing my money and getting frustrated ? no thanks.
With sub, the first mugs I printed came out ok. That is more than I can say of the thirty something mugs ruined with laser transfer.


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

Conde_David said:


> The real issue is putting all the elements of success together.
> 
> I really don't understand why folks will not use free support to make it work. I strongly recommend not to piece-meal a solution.


I think that statement is not very accurate.
I spent countless hours searching the forums, the internet, and posted several times about the mug issue.
I spoke to people at Coastal Business, they called me, emailed me, they were very helpful, but still it didn't work. 
Probably is my bad karma


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