# Epson 4800 setup



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

I'm setting up my new Epson 4800 printer. The Epson manual states that it's normal for up to one-third of the ink in each cartridge to be used during the intital ink charge. Do I use my sub ink to charge the ink or was OEM ink supposed to come with the printer for this purpose?

I have the 220 carts so I'm sure it's not going to use one-third of the larger carts, but I still don't want to waste too much of my sub ink.

Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

hi kathleen! the purpose of 'charging' the inks is to get them up into the lines - you'll need to use your sub ink if that's what you're wanting to print with - if you charge with OEM inks, you're just gonna have to purge the lines to use your sub ink and end up with the same result. it's not 'wasting' ink - well, not all of it anyway - it's just getting it where it needs to go in order to print.


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks Jan! I thought that was probably the case, but thought it was a question worth asking. I'm ready to roll and was just waiting for an answer before taking the plunge. 

I can't wait to get started!


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

i love doing dye sub! do yourself a major favor tho - before you start burning expensive poly shirts - go to a fabric store and buy a couple of yards of 100% poly fabric - in white or in light colors if you want to experiment! - and do test prints to be sure your colors are coming out like you want. and don't forget to install your ink's profiles in the program you're printing from 

with any new image i always press a test on yard goods first - you have no idea how much time and $$ it's saved me over the years


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks! That's a great idea! I print a lot on bridal satin and other polyester fabrics, so I'll use some of that to play with. I'm getting ready to install the profiles right now. 

I love dye sub as well! Thanks so much for your help. I hope we get to know each other through this forum. I've been reading posts for a while and decided it's time to get involved. There's so much great information!


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

keep us posted on how you like your new 4800! is it the dual ink system? i have an elderly 3000 that just keeps on plugging away but i've been sorely tempted by the new toys!  it's hard to justify spending the cash tho when mine is still going like the energizer bunny - if a bit slower and noisier... lol


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

I didn't get the dual system. I work mostly with photographers so I wanted the eight ink system. I may find that eight inks won't make that much of a difference, but I've been using the 1280 with six inks and didn't want to go down to four inks. I hope I don't live to regret it.


----------



## BigBear (Aug 15, 2007)

Greetings Kathleen,

As a photographer, you will love the output of the 4800. We were involved in the original Beta testing of the ArTainium 4800 set-up. We were very pleasantly surprised with the results.

The output is second to none. We were even able to replicate colors that were not possible with six color printers.

We ran tests off and on for over three months. Our biggest pleasure came from the effortless, hassle-free operation. We never had to do more than one head cleaning at any time. Usually we just did a nozzle check and found that a head cleaning was unnecessary.

This also included one time that we deliberately printed nothing for two weeks, just to see if we would have a problem. We didn't.


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

Jack

I've been printing with it all day and I'm in love with it! I printed images that I had printed before on my 1280 and the difference was dramatic! I'm a happy girl right now.

Thanks!


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

BigBear said:


> Greetings Kathleen,
> 
> As a photographer, you will love the output of the 4800. We were involved in the original Beta testing of the ArTainium 4800 set-up. We were very pleasantly surprised with the results.
> 
> ...


just curious jack - were you using carts or a bulk system in your testing? it seems that everybody i know who has used a bulk system has had a lot of difficulty with lines clogging, etc. i've used only carts in my 3000 for the past 4+ years and have never needed more than mild 'windex' cleaning even when i was traveling between texas and iowa winter and summer and it would sit unused for up to 5 months at a time!

my cost per print may be a few pennies more but i don't waste the ink that many do with multiple head cleanings and suffer the fear of letting it sit for a week! please note that this is NOT a proven statistic - merely my personal observations with my machine over an extended period of time!


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

Jan

I know your question is for Jack, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in. As far as I know, the 4800 only uses carts. 

I had the bulk ink system for my 1280 and it was like a ball and chain. I constantly had clogged lines even though my printer seldom, if ever, sat unused for more than two days. I can't tell you how many times I had to use my syringe to pull the inks through the lines. I'm sure I wasted tons of ink during that three year span. Also, because of head problems, I've gone through four 1280 printers in the last three years. On the good side, the printed images were great!

I feel freed from the tangle of the the bulk ink system! Of course, I've only had my 4800 for one day, so who knows what lies ahead, but I've read mostly positive reviews on this printer, so I have high hopes.


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

i was talking to the tech guy at conde about the 4800 and he said the same - only carts are available - BUT i have a friend with both a 1280 and a 3000 and she has now bought refillable carts for hers! says they work great - after having struggled for years with a bulk system. when this set of inks is gone i think i'll look into those - tho i'm not sure there's a huge cost savings in the ink  but if i can manage to fill the things without wearing too much of it, it should be at least more convenient!


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Because of the design of the 4800, there is no need to use a bulk feed system. The 4800 uses bulk cartridges (110 & 220 ML sizes) that allow you to keep a closed ink system. The closed ink system is one of the main reasons why you have much less maintenance on the 4800 compared to smaller printers. You don't have the potential of getting air, dust or other containments into the lines and printhead. The ink also travels a shorter distance than on a bulk feed system and the printhead on the 4800 is much larger. You will also notice that the cost per a print is almost 1/2 of that for a 1280 running a bulk feed system and you save the money on the bulk feed system. These are the main reasons why the 4800 is the preferred desktop printer for apparel decorators.


----------



## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

The only things that put me off the 4800 for sublimation are firstly there are not many items for sublimation of A2 size and you would need a large format heat press. Anyone any idea of print quality in comparison with the R1800?

Jim


----------



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

jimc said:


> The only things that put me off the 4800 for sublimation are firstly there are not many items for sublimation of A2 size and you would need a large format heat press. Anyone any idea of print quality in comparison with the R1800?
> 
> Jim


I've been using an R1800 for about a year and half, and I just ordered my 4800, and can't wait to get it.... literally because I have about 8 jobs waiting on it. I finally got tired of my R1800 putting WAY too much ink down, and it began smearing on the last job. Since I had just spent about $700 on new ink for the R1800, I decided to buy another one at $600 to resolve the problem. I spent a day getting it setup, and tried to print the same job, and it did the exact same thing... put so much down on the paper that it smeared the ink.

I'm very anxious to get my 4800 and save money on the ink, produce cleaner prints, have less clogging problems, be able to run a hybrid system to print my film positives on the other side. This 4800 really makes my other 2 R1800's unneeded, but I guess I can keep them as backups.

You don't have to use the A2 size paper. You can use any size paper. And there are times when I need to print something wider than 13" which is the max with the R1800. My heat press is 16"x 20".


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

hey rusty, may be locking the barn door a little late but.....do you have a way within your software or print drivers to reduce the dpi output?? when i first got my 9600 i was trying to print from flexi with it - big mistake - but there was the ability to change the output - the first few prints i got off the 9600 were literally dripping they had so much ink!


----------



## BigBear (Aug 15, 2007)

Greetings Kathleen,


Our “official” Beta testing was just with cartridges. Unofficially, we tried bulk systems from five different manufacturers. Results ranged from “bad” to “you’ve got to be kidding”.

Along with the salient points offered by Mark in a previous post, we also found that the printer is quite a bit more “picky” in what it will accept. In addition to replenishment problems (we think caused by the distance from a bulk reservoir to the print head) the printer also frequently refused to recognize the chips in the bulk systems.

This even included turning off the printer and then when the printer was turned back on, a chip not being recognized that had not previously given a problem.

It didn’t take long before we concluded that the game wasn’t worth the candle and we stopped further testing of bulk systems. Besides, the price of the 220ml carts are near bulk ink prices anyway.

One interesting thing that we were able to accomplish during the Beta testing was the development of three additional ICC color management profiles.

The original ICC profile is excellent but we also wanted something that was not based on a calibrated monitor. Using an average non-calibrated monitor, we developed a new profile. Using that as our base, we then developed one slightly warmer and one slightly cooler than our base profile.

Since there is really no such thing as an “average non-calibrated monitor”, we felt that the “spread” of the profiles increased the chances that a user would have a profile that was spot on for their specific monitor.


----------



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

jberte said:


> hey rusty, may be locking the barn door a little late but.....do you have a way within your software or print drivers to reduce the dpi output?? when i first got my 9600 i was trying to print from flexi with it - big mistake - but there was the ability to change the output - the first few prints i got off the 9600 were literally dripping they had so much ink!


Jan,
there is nothing in the PowerDriver that I know of that will do this, other than the 4 settings available (Saturated, Vivid, ???, Realistic). I choose the realistic setting which I'm assuming lays down the least ink. I've heard this is just a known problem with PowerDriver. Kind of hard to believe though, that Sawgrass could be that incompetent. But I don't put anything past them.


----------



## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi Rusty

I've been using the 1290 for over 3 years but it is just about finished so I bought the R1800 with Artanium bulk system but could not get it to print. Sent bulk system back and got a refund. 
I got a supplier to send me some samples printed with Sawgrass Sublijet ink using the R1800. The most noticable difference to Artanium was the black. The Sublijet made Artanium black look grey in comparrison. However small black text looked a bit feathered around the edges, but I'm wondering if this is because it's laid down too much ink or if the printer just needed a head cleaning. 
I also have a 16x20 press so wouldn't be able to go to maximum print size, but as I do sublimation as a full time business if the 4800 is a better all round printer then I may have to go for it.
At the moment I only print to aluminium but will be expanding into other substrates such as T-shirts.

Jim


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

Jim

It's funny how different products work differently for each of us. I had the 1280 for three years and used Artanium inks. I was never satisfied with the black. I heard a lot of good things about the Sublijet inks so I decided to give them a try and switched over. I NEVER got good color (black or otherwise) from the Sublijet ink. After many fruitless conversations with customer support, I finally threw up my hands, packed away the Sublijet bulk ink system and went back to my old Artanium system. 

Since I was never able to get a good black, I just learned to work around it by constanting making color adjustments on each and every image. If I had a colorized image I would use the magic wand to separate the color portions from the black and white portions of the image. I'd run it through printing the black areas with black ink only, then I'd run it back through printing the color portion only. Sometimes it turned out great...others not so good. Not to mention the fact that since I work with photographer's images, it sometimes took hours to accomplish this.

So...what was the first thing I tested on my 4800? A black and white image with colorization. I'm amazed at the quality of the print. The blacks look black and the greys are actually grey instead of bluish grey. Not to mention the amazing colors!

One word of advice to anyone thinking about the 4800...It's really big! I knew what the dimensions were when I purchased it, but was still shocked when I saw it. Fortunately I had the room for it and I'm looking forward to many years of great quality performance.


----------



## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

Kathleen
Which inks are you using in the 4800, Artanium or Sublijet?
The Sublijet uses jet black for the R1800 (different to that in the 1280/1290)
The printed sheets done with Sublijet had the 8 colours printed and they pressed well especially red and blue, it's only the black text which is of concern.
If you are using Artanium what 8 carts are they? Sublijet use cyan, light cyan, magenta, light magenta. yellow, red, blue and jet black. 

Jim


----------



## vkbrown (Aug 5, 2007)

Jim

I'm using Artanium inks. The colors are photo black, cyan, magenta, yellow, light black, light cyan, light magenta and light light black.

I was kind of surprised with the two extra colors being light black and light, light black, but it seems to be working for me. The printed images are great!


----------



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

jimc said:


> Hi Rusty
> 
> I got a supplier to send me some samples printed with Sawgrass Sublijet ink using the R1800. The most noticable difference to Artanium was the black. The Sublijet made Artanium black look grey in comparrison. However small black text looked a bit feathered around the edges, but I'm wondering if this is because it's laid down too much ink or if the printer just needed a head cleaning.
> 
> Jim


Jim,
I've always used Sublijet and I had the exact same experience. With small details such as text, it alwasy comes out fuzzy. I think it is because of too much ink. That's why I'm excited to get away from this PowerDriver. I'll be using MultiRip once I get it and hopefully that problem will be solved.


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

You are correct that the "fuzzy" factor on small text is because you are using too much ink - whether you are printing ArTainium or Sublijet IQ. The problem with the 4800 is that it prints too fast when using a high release sublimation paper (like TexPrint XP). That does not sound like a bad thing. But, the second sheet of paper out of the 4800 will land on top of the first sheet before the first sheet is dry. Thus, the ink might smear. The solution in the past was to use a sublimation paper that dries more ink and does not release as much of the ink. A paper (like QC Pro) was typically recommended. I am not a chemist, but it sounds like there is an inverse relationship with paper between being able to release as much ink as possible and being able to dry it the fastest. Probably has something to do with the coating or how the paper is made. The ultimate answer would be to use less ink and a high release paper to get the best results. This is what a RIP software with the correct ICC profiles will do for you. The PowerDriver IQ is usually ok for clipart stuff. Photos (with highlights and tones), small text and other detailed items come out much better with a RIP. It is my understanding that PowerDriver IQ uses presets - not ICC profiles.


----------



## Dingbat (Jun 12, 2007)

It's been six days since the last post so I hope I can still get a couple of comments in before this topic runs out.

I've had the 4800 for about 9 months and am very pleased with the printer. I find that I quit using the individual sheet paper and have gone with the 17 inch roll paper. I make a lot of small prints, so I usually do multiples side by side. For example, I have created several different paper sizes (17 x 6, 17 x 10, 17 x 16) and select the best size for the project. 

The 17 x 6 will hold two 3x8 mug strips plus a couple dozen shirt sleeve logos on the same sheet. I cut everything apart and place the logos in zip lock plastic bags until I need them. You can get a lot of printing on a 17 x 6 inch sheet.

I have found that if I don't print something about every 3 days, one of the print nozzles may clog and ruin a print, so I follow the old rule: a print a day, keeps the clog away. Just a strip of logos or palette tests does the trick. 

Print a small primary color palette test on a scrap of poly or mouse pad, for each of your driver settings (photo realistic, intense, vivid, etc.) Some colors don't come out true when transfered to a shirt. Pick your settings, then adjust your graphic to match the best printed colors.


----------



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Ed, so are you using the PowerDriver IQ? or a RIP?


----------



## Dingbat (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm using the Powerdriver IQ, but am always looking for improvement and other possibilities. I have experienced most of the same problems that others have had with these drivers such as brown tinted blacks and mis-matched colors. I have found that selecting the various "bright" settings such as vivid, can have a major impact on the final colors.

I remedy this by printing a 16 color primary palette on a mouse pad for each setting. I can then select the best colors in Corel Draw to produce the output I want. Interestingly, 80% black, comes out as a better black than 100%.

My fastest PC is a new Dell with Vista and I'm waiting for drivers to become available. In the mean time, I'm running on an older XP machine. I'm also planning to get to the ISS show in Fort Worth to do some deep in-depth research.


----------

