# "Most reliables wide format printers on 24 inches for dye sublimation"



## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

Hi, I am considering on getting a 24 inch wide printer for sublimation purposes. Which printer/s do you recommend with a great performance and with less operational troubles and which brands of sublimation inks have better performance?. I have my doubts on purchasing, cause I live on the North Coast of Dominican Republic and technical support is non existing, to my knowledge. Which means, that I must be very careful choosing a printer and a sales representative with the rest of the product line.

I much appreciate your feedback 


STNFSH


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Not sure if you even have a choice in the 24" market as the only printers I am aware of suitable for dye sub that are 24" are Epsons which are typically very reliable.

Not sure how the Sawgrass patents/license issues work in the Dominican Republic but here in the states you again have little choices. 24" printers are not generally considered wide format here in the states which means you are, for the most part, stuck with Artainium ink. The exception is the 24" Epson printers mysteriously become wide format if you buy ink from a Sawgrass cartel member which means they can sell you Sawgrass Sublime ink which is a higher quality ink. 

Somehow that same printer that is considered a wide format printer if you buy Sawgrass ink resorts back to being a desktop printer if you want to buy a non-Sawgrass ink.

One of the highest quality inks available for wide format printers is J-Teck. There are also a handful of other brands of ink available to the true wide format users - 42"+.

A bit confusing but this is what consumers get stuck with when a cartel completely controls manufacturing, distribution and pricing.


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## AaronM (Mar 28, 2007)

In the US, Sawgrass has recently release a new line of sublimation inks for the Epson 7700. It seems to be a very good printer and I actually wrote a blog about it here - Epson 7700/ 9700 Sawgrass Sublimation Solution | Blogging with Coastal – Transfer Paper, Sublimation, Heat Press, Vinyl and More!


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks for your feedback!, I will have those things in mind.


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks Aaron, I will be checking the link and find more info on those Epson printers. For the 9700 I will be needing a much bigger heat press, then.


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## AaronM (Mar 28, 2007)

STNFSH said:


> Thanks Aaron, I will be checking the link and find more info on those Epson printers. For the 9700 I will be needing a much bigger heat press, then.


True - Or you can just gang up your images for more printing efficency.


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

Do you know if J-Teck inks package includes software and color profiles ?


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

AaronM said:


> True - Or you can just gang up your images for more printing efficency.


Sorry, English is not my first language. What does gang up your images mean?


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

Riderz Ready said:


> One of the highest quality inks available for wide format printers is J-Teck. There are also a handful of other brands of ink available to the true wide format users - 42"+.
> 
> .


Do you know if J-Teck inks package includes software and color profiles ?


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## AaronM (Mar 28, 2007)

STNFSH said:


> Do you know if J-Teck inks package includes software and color profiles ?


The J-Teck package is for the Epson 9700 printer only in the US and includes profiles for both the Wasatch RIP and using the Epson Print driver. There is no software that comes with it.


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## AaronM (Mar 28, 2007)

STNFSH said:


> Sorry, English is not my first language. What does gang up your images mean?


It means you print all of images you have to transfer across the paper so they all print at once. This makes for faster printing and more efficency in ink consumption and paper waste. Once they are printed, just cut them out and you can transfer them with your existing heat press.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

AaronM said:


> In the US, Sawgrass has recently release a new line of sublimation inks for the Epson 7700. It seems to be a very good printer and I actually wrote a blog about it here - Epson 7700/ 9700 Sawgrass Sublimation Solution | Blogging with Coastal – Transfer Paper, Sublimation, Heat Press, Vinyl and More!


Aaron, Are the inks themselves a new formulation? 

It looks like to me the Sublijet "E" series are just the same as desktop Sublijet "IQ" but just repackaged into the 7700 or 9700 carts.

Looking at the math the only thing I see are less startup costs buying the "E" carts vs. buying "SubliM" liter bottles and filling yourself, plus saving the cost of a $1500 RIP if you use "SubliM". Also the "CIS" for the SubliM is about $500.

If the $185 250 mL 7700 carts are compared to the $250 "SubliM" liters then for the same printer the ink cost ratio 

$62.5 for 250 mL SubliM
to
$185 for 250 mL SubliJet "E"

or $0.25 per ml SubliM and $.074 per mL for "E".

So comparing startup cost differences and figuring the "break even" point ...

4 x "E" 250 mL carts = $740

4 liters SubliM= $1000

If the RIP is $1500 and the CIS is $500 total of $2000 and the $260 difference for the full liters vs. 250 mL ($2260) then it only takes about 3 cart purchases of "E" ($740 x 3 = $2220) for the break even point on the initial purchase.

So after using only 3 "E" replacement cart sets you have spent the same amount of money as if you would have bought Sublim from the start, however, _forever thereafter_ your ink costs are still $0.74 cents for "E", whereas Sublim per mL cost would be $0.25. "E" Ink is still nearly 3X expense.

I would propose that anyone looking at the 7700 should take into consideration their ink volume usage. Looks like a "either pay them now ... or _really_ pay them later" type of situation.


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

It makes complete sense, thanks again!


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## AaronM (Mar 28, 2007)

Mike,
Excellent information for sure. You are right and I know many people do go that route. I also know others who have choose the cartridge route for peace of mind. No hassling with fussy chips, a power driver that is pretty easy to use and support. There is something for everyone really.

I am in no way disagreeing with you at all though, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I know many people have issues with Sawgrass and I have as well from time to time. We just have certain rules we have to play by as a reseller so we play by those rules. 

In the end as long as our customers are successful and making money we are all happy. I know people who are making money by using Sawgrass carts while they have also tried the bulk systems and have not had success with the bulk systems. That is definitely the minority, but they are out there.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

AaronM said:


> Mike,
> Excellent information for sure. You are right and I know many people do go that route. I also know others who have choose the cartridge route for peace of mind. No hassling with fussy chips, a power driver that is pretty easy to use and support. There is something for everyone really.
> 
> I am in no way disagreeing with you at all though, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I know many people have issues with Sawgrass and I have as well from time to time. We just have certain rules we have to play by as a reseller so we play by those rules.
> ...


Sure wish this printer was available when I got my 4880. With the rebate going on looks like a no brainer if you were thinking about a 4880, even if you went the cart route on the 7700, much faster and bigger.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

I am guessing that distributors that are 100% Sawgrass can sell Sublime to the 24" market and the ones that are not are not allowed to do such?

Also guessing there is no need or use for a CIS for a 7700 as there should be refillable cartridges available which typically are $40 or less. 

The Sublime ink is a much higher quality ink than the regular garbage Sawgrass sells giving one much better colors and less clogging.

The question every desktop user should be asking Sawgrass and their Cartel members is - why are we forced to use the low quality ink when Sawgrass has a much higher quality ink that they sell? Never ever heard the answer as to why the desktop market, Sawgrass most profitable market, is treated as second class customers.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

AaronM said:


> Mike,
> Excellent information for sure. You are right and I know many people do go that route. I also know others who have choose the cartridge route for peace of mind. No hassling with fussy chips, a power driver that is pretty easy to use and support. There is something for everyone really.
> 
> I am in no way disagreeing with you at all though, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I know many people have issues with Sawgrass and I have as well from time to time. We just have certain rules we have to play by as a reseller so we play by those rules.
> ...


Looking at your post again ... when you mention 

"We just have certain rules we have to play by as a reseller so we play by those rules." ,

I was assuming that the CIS + SubliM option was Sawgrass authorized as the numbers I crunched were taken from an authorized mainstream Sawgrass retailer offering 2 different ink options for the 7700. 

Perhaps my assumption is wrong and a few of the mainstream SG resellers are "bucking the system"?

That would be a trend I would welcome ... unless I am reading something in your statement wrong.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> I am guessing that distributors that are 100% Sawgrass can sell Sublime to the 24" market and the ones that are not are not allowed to do such?
> 
> Also guessing there is no need or use for a CIS for a 7700 as there should be refillable cartridges available which typically are $40 or less.
> 
> ...


Looking at the drawing and description closer looks like my use of the term "CIS" is really just the refillable carts are as you describe but with a "kit" of accesories. They are calling this a CIS, but not the same as desktop CIS.

Product Detail for RC97-CISS - DyeTrans.com


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Looking at the drawing and description closer looks like my use of the term "CIS" is really just the refillable carts are as you describe but with a "kit" of accesories. They are calling this a CIS, but not the same as desktop CIS.
> 
> Product Detail for RC97-CISS - DyeTrans.com


Someone who has a 7700 can chip in on this but that starter kit looks like most starter kits - a very expensive way to get started.

Most refillable cartridges are $40. A chip resetter is next to nothing and I personally do not know anyone that actually buys maintenance tanks on a wide format printer. From the ones we have had you simple reset the chip as you do on cartridges and replace with diaper or other towel like material that will soak up the ink. 

I know some will point out the hassle on the Epson of having to reset the cartridges but it does prevent you from putting the cartridge into the wrong slot and when one is in a hurry cyan and black can be a blur - unfortunately speaking from experience.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Someone who has a 7700 can chip in on this but that starter kit looks like most starter kits - a very expensive way to get started.
> 
> Most refillable cartridges are $40. A chip resetter is next to nothing and I personally do not know anyone that actually buys maintenance tanks on a wide format printer. From the ones we have had you simple reset the chip as you do on cartridges and replace with diaper or other towel like material that will soak up the ink.
> 
> I know some will point out the hassle on the Epson of having to reset the cartridges but it does prevent you from putting the cartridge into the wrong slot and when one is in a hurry cyan and black can be a blur - unfortunately speaking from experience.


No waste tank in the link below but as you mention most don't buy one, I clean and put paper towels in my 4880 waste tank and reset.

Includes funnels and resetter. About half price the price.

Set of 5 Refillable Cartridges Compatible with the Epson Stylus Pro 7700/9700


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

mgparrish said:


> No waste tank in the link below but as you mention most don't buy one, I clean and put paper towels in my 4880 waste tank and reset.
> 
> Includes funnels and resetter. About half price the price.
> 
> Set of 5 Refillable Cartridges Compatible with the Epson Stylus Pro 7700/9700


 
Thanks guys for your helpful threads and posts, they are very appreciated. 
Which brands of sublimation inks can be used with those cartridges for Epson 9700 ?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

STNFSH said:


> Thanks guys for your helpful threads and posts, they are very appreciated.
> Which brands of sublimation inks can be used with those cartridges for Epson 9700 ?


The bulk inks are called SubliM.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

If you go 9700 you can rejoice at the fact you can say goodbye to the cartel and purchase higher quality ink that provides better colors, less clogging at a better price. J-Teck ink is one of the more popular inks out there for wide format.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> If you go 9700 you can rejoice at the fact you can say goodbye to the cartel and purchase higher quality ink that provides better colors, less clogging at a better price. J-Teck ink is one of the more popular inks out there for wide format.


Yes, I was still thinking just of the "small format" 7770 when I posted, so I missed on that. I think the J-Teck inks are about $200 liter? If so then you save $50 a liter.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Yes, I was still thinking just of the "small format" 7770 when I posted, so I missed on that. I think the J-Teck inks are about $200 liter? If so then you save $50 a liter.


Unlike Sawgrass where there what appears to be standard pricing amongst all the Cartel members J-teck is more based on who you buy the ink and more important the quantity of ink you purchase. If you are buying in any kind of quantity you will be much lower than $200 a liter.


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## STNFSH (Feb 22, 2012)

Riderz Ready said:


> If you go 9700 you can rejoice at the fact you can say goodbye to the cartel and purchase higher quality ink that provides better colors, less clogging at a better price. J-Teck ink is one of the more popular inks out there for wide format.



After reviewing all the feedback, I think an Epson 9700 makes much more sense. Thanks again.


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