# Entering T-shirt Design Contests



## melSocial (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey Everyone!

I have been working on a t-shirt design for a while now. I am finally happy with it and hope to start a brand in the future. At the moment however I need the cash so I was thinking of entering my design in a Wordans design contest. That way I could win some cash, get some free prints, and promote the design and brand.

I am afraid to do so however because I do not have the brand name or design trade marked and copyrighted. If I enter the contest am I at all protected against someone stealing my design?

Any input would be a great help!


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## Ylla (May 17, 2011)

contest organizers usually take your artwork (winner or not) as their property. check their contract before you join.

...take the risk, man. don't worry about people "might" steal your artwork. that mind set will not get you anywhere.

...or another option is look somewhere else for money..


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## melSocial (Sep 11, 2011)

That is a good point.


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## starchild (Jul 22, 2009)

Going the design competition route for exposure is a good choice. Fussing over one design being in a design contest is a bad decision. 

There is no guarantee you will win and even if you do or don't win, the idea is to keep entering contests regularly with quality designs to build a reputation.


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## ZombieSurvivor (Oct 5, 2011)

This is going to be dependent on the contest. From what I understand, most of them will claim the copyright and trademark to the designs if they are entered and/or win. Make sure you read the terms and conditions of entering the contest before entering. This is where you would find this information. If you don't see anything that would say in plain english they they will hold the copyright if your artwork is chosen, then just ask them. 

Also, the second your designs are finished (assuming they are original and not duplicates of other material or derivate of another work; very similar) you own the copyright and once you use them in a commercial manner, you own the trademark. The paperwork you file with the federal government is simply a registration, which proves that you now own the rights. It also provides you with extra benefits in litigation and legal matters, but you own the copyright and TMs once it is created essentially. Just keep really good records and research with the federal and state Trademark and Copyright offices to make sure your designs are indeed original and you will probably be ok.


When starting out too, worry less about that and more about getting your designs created and get exposure.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

I would be careful as it seems many of these are scams to get free artwork. With that said we may have all, at the beginning, spent way too much time worrying about protecting artwork. It is time wasted. There is nothing you can really do about the fact that there are people who will use all or part of the design. It is just part of the business. My main concern would be the time it seems to be taking you to create a single design. T-shirts are not rocket science and designers can spend way too much time on the design and yet still have no clue how to sell them. You should be spending 90% of your time marketing/selling/building a brand and 10%, at the most, on the design itself. You can be the greatest designer in the world - if you do not have the skill set to sell your work it is pointless. Trademarks, copyrights, etc is just noise and has little place for the vast majority of designers. Figure out how to sell/market and the rest is very very easy.


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## lucubrate (Sep 26, 2011)

melSocial said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> I have been working on a t-shirt design for a while now. I am finally happy with it and hope to start a brand in the future. At the moment however I need the cash so I was thinking of entering my design in a Wordans design contest. That way I could win some cash, get some free prints, and promote the design and brand.
> 
> ...


 You can establish rights in a mark based on use of the mark in commerce, without a registration. What I did before I got my trademark, I mailed a dated copy of the mark to myself had the postal worker stamp the back of the envelope and did not open it unless I needed to go to court to prove it was my idea and the date I created it.


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## JOHNSY (Dec 20, 2010)

lucubrate said:


> You can establish rights in a mark based on use of the mark in commerce, without a registration. What I did before I got my trademark, I mailed a dated copy of the mark to myself had the postal worker stamp the back of the envelope and did not open it unless I needed to go to court to prove it was my idea and the date I created it.


My 2cents... when you enter a contest and anticipate the win. Have your next 5 designs in your pocket ready to go. One design will be a good start point but it wont carry you forever. Also im not sure of the contest rules but most do not want you to enter any registered trademark anyway for the reason they are going to use it for there on purposes.
Good luck


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

lucubrate said:


> You can establish rights in a mark based on use of the mark in commerce, without a registration. What I did before I got my trademark, I mailed a dated copy of the mark to myself had the postal worker stamp the back of the envelope and did not open it unless I needed to go to court to prove it was my idea and the date I created it.


Actually mailing yourself something in the mail will not hold up in court or serve any useful purpose in copyright or trademark proceedings.


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## lucubrate (Sep 26, 2011)

In response to Rodney It is called a Poor Man's Trademark or Patent, I watch enough Judge Judy to know that if someone infringe upon my trademark and I have a notarize statement stating that it is my trademark thought of by me on a specified date and time, then have it postmarked and mail to me, I would win in a court of law if someone is unable to prove ownership of the trademark prior to the date I had notarize, and postmark. The following statement came of the Poor Man's Patent website do your research: 
*Instructions*


*Things You'll Need*


postcard
money
computer
product
Suggest Edits



1First of all a poor man's patent is simply, just a postcard you send through the United Postal Service. Just print a copy of the product you designed on it. Address the postcard to your self. Once it comes back stamped by the postal service it is a "Poor Man's Patent. Risk is the design going out, and maybe not returning. But it is the cheapest way.




Read more: How to get a Poor Man's Patent | eHow.com How to get a Poor Man's Patent | eHow.com


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## lucubrate (Sep 26, 2011)

Rodney said:


> Actually mailing yourself something in the mail will not hold up in court or serve any useful purpose in copyright or trademark proceedings.


 Oh heres more Info for you Rodney taken from Wikipedia on the Poor Man's copyright: 
*Poor mans copyright* is a method of using registered dating by the postal service, a notary public or other highly trusted source to date intellectual property, thereby helping to establish that the material has been in one's possession since a particular time. The concept is based on the notion that, in the event that such intellectual property were to be misused by a third party, the poor-man's copyright would at least establish a legally recognized date of possession before any proof which a third party may possess.
The PMC was originally used by authors who sent copies of their own work to themselves through the mail without opening the envelopes in the hope that it would grant them legal protection by establishing a date at which the work was created. Use of this method may not hold up in a court as it is simple for individuals to pre-send envelopes which can then be used later by placing the materials inside. Yeah but what about the notarized copy inside the envelope I am sure that will account for establishing a date at which the work was created. This was how it was done in the past, until the government and lawyers saw it as a way to make money, I had to pay $325 for my trademark if I had a lawyer I would of had to pay a heck of a lot more. Every 6 years I have to pay a fee to keep it active.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Minnie,
Patents are a completely different form of intellectual property than copyrights and trademarks. So it really doesn't have any relevance here.

Copyright law is dependent on the jurisdiction you are in. So there is plenty of info on the internet that validates the use of poor man's copyright because there are jurisdictions, such as the UK, where it will be upheld in court. But here in the US, poor man's copyright holds no legal value at all. This is stated clearly on the US Copyright Office's official website: U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ). I would trust their info more than anything found on Wikipedia. Bottom line is, copyrights really aren't very expensive. And it's possible to register multiple designs under one submission and one payment. So if a creator of a copyrightable work wants official proof of ownership, it's worth registering rather than take the risk of using a cheaper method of protection that may not even hold up in court.

Trademarks are another situation altogether. You can *claim* ownership of a mark just by using it in commerce. This is known as common law trademark. But a mark is not an officially registered trademark until it is approved by the US Trademark Office.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

lucubrate said:


> In response to Rodney It is called a Poor Man's Trademark or Patent, I watch enough Judge Judy to know that if someone infringe upon my trademark


 

Sorry...once I read Judge Judy I had to stop there!

Getting legal advice from TV show is a very hazardous road to travel! there is some good advice on this forum. Suggest you read and research a bit more before taking Judge Judy's advice as law.


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## lucubrate (Sep 26, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> Minnie,
> Patents are a completely different form of intellectual property than copyrights and trademarks. So it really doesn't have any relevance here.
> 
> Copyright law is dependent on the jurisdiction you are in. So there is plenty of info on the internet that validates the use of poor man's copyright because there are jurisdictions, such as the UK, where it will be upheld in court. But here in the US, poor man's copyright holds no legal value at all. This is stated clearly on the US Copyright Office's official website: U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ). I would trust their info more than anything found on Wikipedia. Bottom line is, copyrights really aren't very expensive. And it's possible to register multiple designs under one submission and one payment. So if a creator of a copyrightable work wants official proof of ownership, it's worth registering rather than take the risk of using a cheaper method of protection that may not even hold up in court.
> ...


Why would the US copyright office have a provision about the poor man trademark and patent, knowing that if they did it would cost them a ton of money, because most people would elect to obtain a poor man trademark as oppose to paying for one from the government. Maybe you never been to court. But if you were unable to obtain a trademark from the government but have a notarized document stating you are the owner of a trademark and the date you owned it and someone starts using your trademark at a later time or have a notarized document of ownership of the same mark at a later date than you, do you think you would lose in court if you present you? document? If so, I don't know what type of court system you're under not an American one thats for sure.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

lucubrate said:


> Why would the US copyright office have a provision about the poor man trademark and patent, knowing that if they did it would cost them a ton of money, because most people would elect to obtain a poor man trademark as oppose to paying for one from the government.


The US Copyright Office does not provide any info about trademarks or patents. They only provide info about copyrights. As you may or may not be aware, copyrights are completely different than trademarks and patents.



lucubrate said:


> But if you were unable to obtain a trademark from the government but have a notarized document stating you are the owner of a trademark and the date you owned it and someone starts using your trademark at a later time or have a notarized document of ownership of the same mark at a later date than you, do you think you would lose in court if you present you?


To be honest, this doesn't really make any sense.

If you are unable to obtain a trademark registration from the government, *then you do not own the trademark*. It's that simple.

At best, you can claim common law trademark rights. But common law rights are based on the use of the mark in commerce. So a notarized document would not be nearly as valuable in court as a sales receipt, a screen shot of a website or any other proof of use in commerce.

So what's the point of poor man's trademark when there are more valuable ways of proving usage that are also just as cheap?

And just to clarify, poor man's trademark does not even apply to the original poster's question. A t-shirt design is not eligible for trademark. It would only be eligible for copyright.


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## lucubrate (Sep 26, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> The US Copyright Office does not provide any info about trademarks or patents. They only provide info about copyrights. As you may or may not be aware, copyrights are completely different than trademarks and patents.
> 
> 
> To be honest, this doesn't really make any sense.
> ...


The origianal poster question I read from MelSocial states the he did not have the brand name or design trade marked and copyrighted, this led me to believe he was asking about a trademark, not sure what you mean about not being eligible for a trademark for a design when I read on page 6 of the Basic Facts About Trademarks that one could file for a "special form" drawing which consist of a design (as in a tee shirt design) or logo, *alone* or with wording, and on page 1 it states that a trademark is a word, pharase, symbol, or *design*, or a combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of goods of one party from those of others, and on page 9 it states that one can file a use in commerce or an *intent* to use in commerce. If he applys for a copyright which is what I have for a childrens book it would be easier to obtain and less expensive than a trademark, If MelSocial has a word or phrase with his design he must file a special form drawing which is what I had to do, for [my brand], if it is just artwork such as a painting, photograph, drawing, etc. then by all means he should file for a copyright. Should MelSocial register a mark? no because his rights of the mark would be based on his use of the mark in commerce, owning a federal trademark just provides several advantages which I don't feel like typing, you can read about them on page 1 of the Basic Facts About Trademarks booklet. MelSocial I have a project on kickstarter.com, as another way to raise funds for my tee shirt business, and plan to have one on crowdfunder as well, check it out it may be something you might want to do to raise funds as well


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

lucubrate said:


> not sure what you mean about not being eligible for a trademark for a design when I read on page 6 of the Basic Facts About Trademarks that one could file for a "special form" drawing which consist of a design (as in a tee shirt design) or logo, *alone* or with wording


No, the special form drawing does not include t-shirt designs.

They are specifying the difference between "stylized design" and "standard character mark." When a mark is registered as a stylized design (as in a logo), then it's possible to protect the stylization of the mark, such as font, color, etc. When a mark is registered as a standard character mark (as in a brand name), then the owner has broad protection rights to the mark.



lucubrate said:


> and on page 1 it states that a trademark is a word, pharase, symbol, or *design*, or a combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of goods of one party from those of others


Again, "design" refers to a stylized logo as opposed to a standard character mark or brand name.

The important part to understand here is that a trademark needs to identify a source of goods. This means a trademark needs to be a logo or brand name that represents a company. A random t-shirt design that is not a logo, brand name or used as part of a company's marketing (ie. used to identify the source of goods) is not eligible for trademark registration.



lucubrate said:


> and on page 9 it states that one can file a use in commerce or an *intent* to use in commerce.


Yes, you can file as an intent to use. This means you can file the trademark application prior to using the mark in commerce. But as part of the approval process, you need to submit a "statement of use" that provides proof of usage in commerce. So a trademark will not be official registered until the mark is actively being used in commerce (even when filing an intent to use.)



lucubrate said:


> If MelSocial has a word or phrase with his design he must file a special form drawing which is what I had to do, for [my brand],


Technically, it's the opposite. Because you have a drawing (owl) along with your brand name (lucubrator), you needed to file as a stylized design if you wanted to protect the design elements associated with the mark. If you just wanted to register the brand name (lucubrator), you can file as a standard character mark which will offer you broad protection rights to the brand name.

And I noticed that you made sure that the hangtag is visible on the specimen you submitted along with your application. This helps prove my previous point that the t-shirt design itself is not enough to help register the trademark. You needed to prove that the mark is used to identify the source of goods (meaning that the trademark is your brand name, not just being used as a random t-shirt design).



lucubrate said:


> if it is just artwork such as a painting, photograph, drawing, etc. then by all means he should file for a copyright. Should MelSocial register a mark? no because his rights of the mark would be based on his use of the mark in commerce, owning a federal trademark just provides several advantages which I don't feel like typing


To protect a t-shirt design, it should be copyrighted. To protect a brand name or logo, it should be trademarked.


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## lucubrate (Sep 26, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> No, the special form drawing does not include t-shirt designs.
> 
> They are specifying the difference between "stylized design" and "standard character mark." When a mark is registered as a stylized design (as in a logo), then it's possible to protect the stylization of the mark, such as font, color, etc. When a mark is registered as a standard character mark (as in a brand name), then the owner has broad protection rights to the mark.
> 
> ...


 OK thanks for the info and the massive headache and for taking up time I need to run my business,  LOL Its time for me to jump out of this I'm starting to have flash backs on how hard it was for me to obtain a trademark for Lucubrator, a copyright for my childrens book called "My Hair", and a design patent for a chocolate candy morsal, without a lawyer, and before the invention of internets or home computers  You win on this one throwing in the towel,


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

lucubrate said:


> OK thanks for the info


You're welcome, Minnie. And good luck with the continued success of all your endeavors.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> have a notarize statement stating that it is my trademark thought of by me on a specified date and time, then have it postmarked and mail to me, I would win in a court of law if someone is unable to prove ownership of the trademark prior to the date I had notarize, and postmark


Sorry, this is just not true. 

Nothing you can do with the poor mans copyright will hold up in court in the US. A notarized copy of a mailed letter will not help anything.

Whoops, looks like this has already been covered in later posts. Nevermind


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## 321go (Aug 13, 2011)

I found a company on the web that offered copyright to an unlimted amount of files, all you do is print it out and post them to the company and they hold them all and do their own independant marking and dating, and you just pay £11 per month. I dont know if thats just for the uk or id there are Us alternatives like this?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

321go said:


> I found a company on the web that offered copyright to an unlimted amount of files, all you do is print it out and post them to the company and they hold them all and do their own independant marking and dating, and you just pay £11 per month. I dont know if thats just for the uk or id there are Us alternatives like this?


Poor Man's Copyright has been known to be upheld in court in the UK. So this service seems to offer the same thing instead of someone doing it themselves.

In the US, this has not been known to hold up in court. There are copyright services that offer to "time and date stamp" the creation of a copyrightable work. But it seems peculiar to me why anyone would do this. Copyright exists automatically (when a work is in fixed form) without any registration of any kind. But if someone wants official record of their copyright, they can file with the US Copyright Office. It's easy to do and not very expensive.


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