# justify the $1000 diference between Gx-24& copam 2500



## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

was going to purchase the Roland gx-24 since that seems to best of the best. but came across lots of post on the copam 2500. which is about $1000 less and people seem to be very happy with it. now i have the money for the roland but for $1OOO MORE WHAT AM I REALY GETTING FROM THE ROLAND BESIDES THE EYE SENSOR.


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## CasualThreads (Jul 26, 2007)

I think you just answered yourself by the replies you received. I have the CoPam 2500 and very happy with it.

Mark
Casual Threads


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Have You Ever Said I Wish Id Bought The Gx-24. And Also How Long Have You Had It,any Problems With It Yet.


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## tcrowder (Apr 27, 2006)

I would have purchased the Roland if funds had allowed. I always buy the top of the line when I can. If you look in the classified section, there is a sponser offer for the roland at 1395 I think.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

What Do You Have Now


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## tcrowder (Apr 27, 2006)

Enduracut Plus 24"


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Those Are Selling For About $800 On Ebay Right Now Good Deal Or No. What Doesnt That Do That The Gx Does.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Hi, if you don't need to cut transfers just buy the Copam,, I have one and I looked and compared everything out there,, you can't go wrong, its heavy duty and will cut anything you put in front of it,, it will also cut with up to 500 grams of down force,, something the Roland cannot do,,,, I don't know when you would ever use that much but the horsepower is there if you need it,,, sign forums also gave it a excellent review... Just because its made in China you cannot discount this machine,, heck I think all of them are made off shore any ways.. just my 2 cents..


R.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

thanks. im just thinking that extra money can go on shirts and material and if end up like some people say i will, meanning i will want the gx after hopefull i will have made enough money to buy it.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

Most of the people looking at the GX24 here on thee T-shirt forum are looking for something to cut transfer paper. If that is a requirement, yu'll be SOL with the Copam. Other than that, I think you'll be happy. I have a 24" Refine which it a step down form the Copam and it has served me well. It paid for itself in 2 jobs.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

If I was buying a machine today it would definitely be the copam. From the reviews and word of mouth there is no doubt I would be purchasing it. I have a US Cutter Refine and it works great for a $250.00 machine.


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## hiGH (Jan 25, 2007)

my copam 2500 is my new baby. go for it.


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## tecmanMX (Oct 6, 2007)

does the copam 2500 can cut directly to transfer paper instead of vinyl?
thanks....


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

FROM my reasearch and everybodys comments i think it does not thats why they get the roland GX-24 because it has those eye sensors that allow you to cut transfers.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I think Manny is correct. I do not have the Copan but I do have a GX24. I do not think the Copan has optic eye to cut around an transfer image...


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## hiGH (Jan 25, 2007)

no optic eye on the copam.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

HEY CHARLES do you use that feature often


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## stichin lady (Oct 10, 2007)

What is the Copam and where do I find information on it?

Thank you


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Copam CP-2500 24" Vinyl Cutter - Professional model w/ 2-year Warranty


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Manny I use it quite a bit when I do an inkjet transfer...print the registration marks and it auto cuts around the image...saves me time with the scissors...besides my keeper does not like me to have sharp objects!


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## tecmanMX (Oct 6, 2007)

thank you both!!!!!

i appreciate your comments, so i should buy a cutter with optic eye for my needs...


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

That depends on what your needs are and only you can truly answer that question.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

if i buy platisol transfers they dont need to be trimed right? hey charles does it just cut around the image or will it cut stuff out in the center. do you have any pictures of a printed transfer that has been cut by the Gx-24. the only thing i found was the vid from josh but it just cut around that superman logo


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

it will just cut around the image...Josh's video shows it all...


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

The Copam has an eye for material sizing but it does not have auto registration mark sensing.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

just watched the video again and at the end he says that if he wanted it could cut in the center Humm!


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## patchmaster (May 10, 2007)

I'm fighting the same problem. I think I'll use the Craft Robo for transfers and the Copam for vinyl... I'll be limited to the size of the CR but most of my transfers are smaller anyway.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

the craft robo has an optic eye as well to cut transfers. how much was it.


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## dcurtisroland (Jun 5, 2007)

2STRONG said:


> was going to purchase the Roland gx-24 since that seems to best of the best. but came across lots of post on the copam 2500. which is about $1000 less and people seem to be very happy with it. now i have the money for the roland but for $1OOO MORE WHAT AM I REALY GETTING FROM THE ROLAND BESIDES THE EYE SENSOR.


2Strong,
You'll find a lot of discussion on these forums regarding vinyl cutters/plotters. I have been asked this question many times myself. My only advice is that you get what you pay for. Many people run a successful business with a copam cutter and have no complaints. 

When they make enough money to move up to a printer or an engraver, they now have 3 different machines and 3 different people to call. They then have to worry about whether or not to contact their dealer or their manufacturer. 

Then, what happens if it breaks? Can you get a person on the phone? Will they repair it? Will they replace it? Do they have a loaner program? Do they have an online shopping cart for purchasing supplies and accessories? Do they have a published service and support policy? Are they ISO certified? Do they have a youtube account where you can find training videos on how to use it? Do they attend industry tradeshows so you can see the unit in person?

My advice is to continue to do your homework, and make a decision on whether you want quality or price. Once you buy the copam, consider that the end of the transaction. Once you buy the Roland, consider it a relationship that we want to nurture through our dealers, tshirt forum users and our support system.

We don't allow our product to be sold by our dealers on EBay. We expect our dealers and ourselves to stand by our product. 

Good luck in your search,
-Dana


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Thank you for the imput and thats why i made my decision to go with the roland. everytime i was searching for info on cutters and how to use it someone from roland was always popping up in videos showing you how and explaining everything. I could not find one video of the copam in action but roland was all over the place. thanks to josh at imprintables, whom i've been trying to get ahold of because he offered a sweet deal to members but i think he's at a convention. hopefully i can order it tomorrow.


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## BRC (Mar 27, 2007)

> "When they make enough money to move up to a printer or an engraver, they now have 3 different machines and 3 different people to call. They then have to worry about whether or not to contact their dealer or their manufacturer.
> 
> Then, what happens if it breaks? Can you get a person on the phone? Will they repair it? Will they replace it? Do they have a loaner program? Do they have an online shopping cart for purchasing supplies and accessories? Do they have a published service and support policy? Are they ISO certified? Do they have a youtube account where you can find training videos on how to use it? Do they attend industry tradeshows so you can see the unit in person?"


You know what? The dealer I bought my Copam from is still there, they didn't go away after I bought my machine. Funny how that worked because by your view you get no service after the sale, that just isn't correct. As far as supplies go I can buy parts at most sign supply wholesalers, even from Roland because it uses the same blades, funny you didn't mention that. 

Now I admit that Roland makes a good solid machine but they are not the only ones that do, so why not just tell about the good points and not resort to the scare tactics. Just yesterday I was considering a GX24 addition but after reading your post the Summas are looking a lot better. Then in the spring I am considering an engraver but Roland is now a step or two behind Vision and several steps behind Gravograph. Too bad because the dealer I bought my Copam from sells Roland engravers ( if they didn't go away after the sale). I could have had both machine questions answered with one phone call hmmm.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Summa and Graphtec make quality machines. The Summa cutters are a bit more expensive than the Roland but they have a unit that contour cuts as well.

I think you really need to look at how much actual production is running through any particular unit. Sign vinyl needs are completely different than say say transfer cutting or vinyl heatpress production. Tracking is essential when running a 15' graphic.


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## gothicaleigh (Jun 16, 2007)

charles95405 said:


> it will just cut around the image...Josh's video shows it all...


...using Roland CutStudio it will just cut around the image. Mine cuts whatever I want using Flexi. 

In fact, with most any program you can get it to print and cut correctly if you are crafty enough. Just make sure your print file puts down the correct registration marks and that your cut file is positioned accurately in relation to the marks. The roland doesn't need to receive instructions from CutStudio to use the GX-24's optic eye. It can read them manually and align any design you can come up with.

The other thing I would be concerned about when doing this comparison is reliability. There are people still using Rolands from over a decade ago, while the Copams are too new to get an accurate idea of their average long-term reliability.

The other (admittedly very minor) difference is physical aesthetics. The Copam just isn't as sexy as the GX-24 and I end up having to look at the thing every day.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

gothicaleigh said:


> The other (admittedly very minor) difference is physical aesthetics. The Copam just isn't as sexy as the GX-24 and I end up having to look at the thing every day.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

One question,in what country is the Roland made?? 

R


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

I believe Germany. I could be wrong, I have been once before, or so they say...


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Roland is manufactured in Japan. They also have several offices in Irvine, CA and one on the East Coast. The dealer network is worldwide.


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## uscutter (Apr 7, 2007)

I would consider the Rolands, Graphtecs, and Summas to be a better machine than the Copam overall. They have more advanced electronics and are available with true contour cutting ability. To say they are better in every way would be inaccurate. The Copam machines are probably heavier and overbuilt compared to any other machine on the market. The design is very simple, yet very robust. If service is ever needed, the machines are very servicable. Being overbuilt, it also has the advantage of being able to cut through thicker and stronger material. It strengths are in the things that matter (accuracy, servicability, and reliability).

Now, with regard to supporting the machines, I would say that we do a better job than any of our competitors. We import machines that are built to our specifications (in the case of the Copam, we are purchases the standard international model), and we feel that we can add value over our competitors by offering ongoing customer and parts support. Thus far, we have only focused on selling cutting plotters, and this specialization has made us very effective and efficient at supporting the machines. We have spare parts on hand and we are committed to maintaining spare parts stock for years into the future - in addition, all our parts are very reasonably price (the most expensive parts being about $100 compared to $500+ for parts for many name-brand machines)

Loaner program - We send out replacements in advance (with credit card deposit)

ISO support - Which ISO standards are you referring to? Why does it matter? (Some of the factories we work with are ISO 900X compliant, but forcing others to 
do so would increase our cost and force us to increase prices)

Service and support - Look at our forum at _forum.uscutter.com_ to see how our customers feel about our support. Call our toll-free support line, or contact us at _support.uscutter.com_

YouTube videos - Members on our forums post videos frequently, but we have not made videos in-house. This is something that we hope to do in the near future.

Trade shows - This is something that the manufacturers do to support their inefficent sales network - They are of little benefit to the average end user - it is just a cost that we would prefer to not pass on to our customers.

Companies like this do not allow their dealers to sell on eBay because eBay drives down advertising / marketing costs. Some dealers add value, many just take your money, hand you a machine and take their 30%+ cut. If your machine breaks, you are probably sending it to the manufacturer, so what benefits do the dealers really offer? We would rather just let our machines reputations speak for themselves and pass the saving in advertising costs on to our customer.



dcurtisroland said:


> 2Strong,
> You'll find a lot of discussion on these forums regarding vinyl cutters/plotters. I have been asked this question many times myself. My only advice is that you get what you pay for. Many people run a successful business with a copam cutter and have no complaints.
> 
> When they make enough money to move up to a printer or an engraver, they now have 3 different machines and 3 different people to call. They then have to worry about whether or not to contact their dealer or their manufacturer.
> ...


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## gothicaleigh (Jun 16, 2007)

uscutter said:


> ISO support - Which ISO standards are you referring to? Why does it matter? (Some of the factories we work with are ISO 900X compliant, but forcing others to
> do so would increase our cost and force us to increase prices)


It matters because it shows that they function with some form of operating standard and quality control process. Standards that are internally and externally enforced.

Knowing that measures have been taken to insure a great and consistent product is worth paying extra for. You really want us to trust a Chinese company without a recognizable quality standard? I think we all have heard of, or experienced, the "quality" that comes from China when standards aren't enforced.



uscutter said:


> YouTube videos - Members on our forums post videos frequently, but we have not made videos in-house. This is something that we hope to do in the near future.


Disrespect for tradeshows _and_ no online demonstration currently provided?



uscutter said:


> Trade shows - This is something that the manufacturers do to support their inefficent sales network - They are of little benefit to the average end user - it is just a cost that we would prefer to not pass on to our customers.


Tradeshows are very informative and have done nothing but increased my support of many of my suppliers. Everyone should be able to meet with company representatives and their salespeople face to face.

Of course, tradeshows are also a good way to see how machines, materials, and blanks compare head to head using your own judgement and not the opinions of others, so I can understand why some companies would want to steer clear of them.



uscutter said:


> Companies like this do not allow their dealers to sell on eBay because eBay drives down advertising / marketing costs. Some dealers add value, many just take your money, hand you a machine and take their 30%+ cut.


The majority of eBay businesses function exactly as you describe above. Is it any wonder that many manufacturers do not wish to be associated with the place?







I have no experience with your machines, but your statements above illustrating your opinion of widely recognized quality control standards and tradeshows does not inspire confidence in the product you sell.


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## BRC (Mar 27, 2007)

"It matters because it shows that they function with some form of operating standard and quality control process. Standards that are internally and externally enforced.

Knowing that measures have been taken to insure a great and consistent product is worth paying extra for. You really want us to trust a Chinese company without a recognizable quality standard? I think we all have heard of, or experienced, the "quality" that comes from China when standards aren't enforced."

I'm sorry , but if you believe for one minute that ISO makes one bit of differnce in the manufacturing of an item you are sadly misinformed just like most of America. ISO simply verifies that you say what you do and do what you say. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the manufacturing process. It is mostly a paper jockey dreamworld. The closest it comes to dealing with production is instument calibration, and even then you set the standards. If your process sucks they don't care as long as you follow the process. I have been in manufacturing for over 30 years and gone through the certification process from beginning to end and it does not impress me. If it makes you happy I am glad for you but I would rather have my parts made by someone who knows what they are doing than by someone who can dot an i and cross a t. I made aircraft parts for 12 years and we were not ISO certified, our standards were way above the ISO level.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Terry you are correct on the ISO cert. they don't mean diddly squat,,, its a snow job for marketing,,, the biggest reason for ISO is selling in Europe ,I believe, other than that its just paperwork.... Some companies manufacturer other items under one roof,, one item can be ISO and the other items not, but as long as ISO certs. are there then they market as such..


R.


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## gothicaleigh (Jun 16, 2007)

BRC said:


> "It matters because it shows that they function with some form of operating standard and quality control process. Standards that are internally and externally enforced.
> 
> Knowing that measures have been taken to insure a great and consistent product is worth paying extra for. You really want us to trust a Chinese company without a recognizable quality standard? I think we all have heard of, or experienced, the "quality" that comes from China when standards aren't enforced."
> 
> I'm sorry , but if you believe for one minute that ISO makes one bit of differnce in the manufacturing of an item you are sadly misinformed just like most of America. ISO simply verifies that you say what you do and do what you say. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the manufacturing process. It is mostly a paper jockey dreamworld. The closest it comes to dealing with production is instument calibration, and even then you set the standards. If your process sucks they don't care as long as you follow the process. I have been in manufacturing for over 30 years and gone through the certification process from beginning to end and it does not impress me. If it makes you happy I am glad for you but I would rather have my parts made by someone who knows what they are doing than by someone who can dot an i and cross a t. I made aircraft parts for 12 years and we were not ISO certified, our standards were way above the ISO level.


I wrote ISO procedures for one of the largest extrusion die manufacturers in the world. A strict manufacturing procedure will produce a better product than having none or having a company police their own every time. ISO gaurantees that they are producing the same level of quality with every part. 

Your company may have felt they held themselves to a high level of quality using their own internally checked procedures, but what prevents them from violating those procedures if enforcement affects the bottom line? And more importantly, are you going to trust a Chinese company to do the same? Self policing does not work in large manufacturing facilities, especially ones in countries with a long history of shoveling poor quality product.

But hey, spend your money how you want. Mine will go to the company that doesn't skimp on quality control just to undercut a competitor's pricing.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Wow,,,, one would think that manufacturers that we have trusted as a mainstay in our lives like Matel, and others that we would reconize them as a force in quality and manufacturing procedures for the care and well being of our childrens toys and such would jump on that ISO band wagon,,but oops they are governed by consumer protection agency, FDA and other agencies , the plants are I would imagine have procedures and policies in place along with inspections to further compliance,,, but the old lead paint and other things seem to creep in there for some reason,, along with baby crip manufacturers etc. etc. oh and least I forget a few years back the great tire exchange on many suv's on the market that were prone to blow outs,, I might be wrong but I think those may have been ISO certified,,, so it goes to show you that big corporations just like insurance companies no matter what safe guards or certifications they may have in place will go to the bean counters and take calculated risks to enhance the bottom line regardless of governing procedure,,, sooo paper trail yes, looks good yes,, sells good yes.. means little,, more than likely


R.


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## BRC (Mar 27, 2007)

"Your company may have felt they held themselves to a high level of quality using their own internally checked procedures, but what prevents them from violating those procedures if enforcement affects the bottom line? And more importantly, are you going to trust a Chinese company to do the same? Self policing does not work in large manufacturing facilities, especially ones in countries with a long history of shoveling poor quality product.

But hey, spend your money how you want. Mine will go to the company that doesn't skimp on quality control just to undercut a competitor's pricing."

The aircraft industry is held to standards that ISO can only dream of having. One of the things that all industries need to understand is that quality is not controled by paperwork but by the people running the parts. Quality can not be added at the end of the run, it has to be added at the beginning by having people who care and are compensated for caring. Compensation can come in several forms, not just money. It is more about how you are treated than how you are paid. Quality can come from any country and from any company. It all depends on the people, from the janitor to the CEO.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

gothicaleigh said:


> The majority of eBay businesses function exactly as you describe above. Is it any wonder that many manufacturers do not wish to be associated with the place?


Maybe you should tell that to every major computer manufacturer who sells on ebay.

BTW, the "majority" of ebay businesses function as a business because they are a business.


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## MYDAMIT (Jan 14, 2007)

Hi all,
i also have copam and very nice machine never have problem with it. The smallest you can cut is 0.5 cm of text.


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## uscutter (Apr 7, 2007)

When I discounted the significance of ISO, I did not do so to start a flame war. What I meant to say is that there are different ISO certifications. Our most popular line of cutters which is made by Creation is ISO9001-2000 certified. But I would not say that the quality control on these machines matches that of a machines from Roland. In fact, our higher end line from Copam has shown to have much better quality control than our Creation line.

We work directly with the manufacturers to improve quality control, and in some cases we are more successful than others. It is a lot easier to improve the quality on our line of products that retails for 1/3 the cost of name brand counterparts than it is to improve the quality of the products that are 1/5 the cost of the name brand machines. Despite the fact that the Copam machines are higher quality, we sell more than 10 times the number of units of the lower end machine, and so we do our best to improve quality and value at this price point despite very rigid constraints.

I hope that this flame war will end. I didn't mean to say that the quality of our product is better than that of Roland, I was just trying to illustrate that we make a conscious decision to avoid marketing costs and focus on adding value. We sell a good product, and we continuously improve the product to make our company more competitive and our offerings more valuable. Please understand that many customers don't have $1600 to spend on a new machine, especially when they can buy a machine that will work well for less than $400. If you are inclined to chose the most expensive tools available, you will probably be happy in the long run, but please don't discount the decision of those people who can't afford more or those people who would just rather invest their money in other ways. Unlike many of our competitors that sell low end machines, we are dedicated to offering ongoing support and service. We have stock of spare parts for every machine that we have sold since we started in this business about three years ago.


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## dcurtisroland (Jun 5, 2007)

uscutter said:


> When I discounted the significance of ISO, I did not do so to start a flame war. What I meant to say is that there are different ISO certifications. Our most popular line of cutters which is made by Creation is ISO9001-2000 certified. But I would not say that the quality control on these machines matches that of a machines from Roland. In fact, our higher end line from Copam has shown to have much better quality control than our Creation line.
> 
> We work directly with the manufacturers to improve quality control, and in some cases we are more successful than others. It is a lot easier to improve the quality on our line of products that retails for 1/3 the cost of name brand counterparts than it is to improve the quality of the products that are 1/5 the cost of the name brand machines. Despite the fact that the Copam machines are higher quality, we sell more than 10 times the number of units of the lower end machine, and so we do our best to improve quality and value at this price point despite very rigid constraints.
> 
> I hope that this flame war will end. I didn't mean to say that the quality of our product is better than that of Roland, I was just trying to illustrate that we make a conscious decision to avoid marketing costs and focus on adding value. We sell a good product, and we continuously improve the product to make our company more competitive and our offerings more valuable. Please understand that many customers don't have $1600 to spend on a new machine, especially when they can buy a machine that will work well for less than $400. If you are inclined to chose the most expensive tools available, you will probably be happy in the long run, but please don't discount the decision of those people who can't afford more or those people who would just rather invest their money in other ways. Unlike many of our competitors that sell low end machines, we are dedicated to offering ongoing support and service. We have stock of spare parts for every machine that we have sold since we started in this business about three years ago.


My intention to compare cutters was not a slam on US Cutter. Many people are happy with their product. I simply mean to differentiate between them. A US Cutter will cut most materials that a Roland will. We have some advantage with an optical eye and a strong dealer network. 

Some folks say "A cutter is a cutter." Which is why I emphasized "Do your homework and know WHY you're buying." I buy things on price myself. The bottom line is that we all want to create custom apparel and grow our businesses. At Roland, we want everybody to win -- whether with a US Cutter or GX-24. If users could buy both, they should! But when it comes down to opening your wallet and making a choice, know what you get for your money. 
New users should contact US Cutter and Roland to compare. I invite US Cutter to quote me with a link to a video site, here's ours: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. 

Hope this helps,
-Dana


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Thank you Dana and Marcus for keeping this professional 

Hopefully we can stay on the topic from this point out.


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