# question about Roller Frames



## standardgraphics (Jul 28, 2008)

question about Newman Roller Frames

I notice that these frames have one square bar , is this for clamping?

I have a press with side clamps, will these frames work for me and do I need to protect the roller bars from my clamps with something...?..

also will using a roller frame be that much better?

thanks


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

sounds like you have the MZX frames, the square bar is for the clamp on a manual press, as for the protecting the mesh from your side clamps, some people use chem resistant tape, or you can use the plastic mesh protectors stretch devices sells (plastic pieces that pop over your rollers to protect the mesh)

Roller frames are much better, having the correct tension affects pretty much every aspect of printing, from the registration, to the final curing.
They are also a good investment, when the mesh is junk, just re-mesh it. no more wasting money on static frames that dont hold proper tension.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

n.signia said:


> sounds like you have the MZX frames, the square bar is for the clamp on a manual press, as for the protecting the mesh from your side clamps, some people use chem resistant tape, or you can use the plastic mesh protectors stretch devices sells (plastic pieces that pop over your rollers to protect the mesh)
> 
> Roller frames are much better, having the correct tension affects pretty much every aspect of printing, from the registration, to the final curing.
> They are also a good investment, when the mesh is junk, just re-mesh it. no more wasting money on static frames that dont hold proper tension.


I think he is asking about protecting the actual roller frame not the mesh. For side clamp presses, the clamps can dent the roller frames.


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

You can purchase clamp adapters that will allow you to use your side clamps with the roller bars. These give you a flat surface to clamp on. Although you get a more secure hold with the clamp adapters, I have also used my MZX's without them with success.


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## standardgraphics (Jul 28, 2008)

yes I was talking about protecting the rollers and being able to gang 2 designs on both ends of the screen.

so I would need to buy clamp adapters to use both ends of a roller frame.....
(do you have a link for the clamp adapters?)
I hope the extra tension is worth the cost of roller frames and clamp adapters

thanks for the info


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

standardgraphics said:


> yes I was talking about protecting the rollers and being able to gang 2 designs on both ends of the screen.
> 
> so I would need to buy clamp adapters to use both ends of a roller frame.....
> (do you have a link for the clamp adapters?)
> ...


Newmans have one with the square bar, which is meant for presses with a rear back clamp. If you haven't bought the screens yet, I would by the M3 if I were you. They are stronger and lighter then the MZX. Anyhow, if you have a side clamp press, you can use the roller frames without the adapters. Just be careful not to crush them by over tightening your side clamps. I've crushed a couple of MZX frames a little.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

If you have side clamps, you can also buy the frames with 4 rollers instead of the ones with the square bar.


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

I'm sure any supplier that you use has clamp adapters, and yes, Newman roller frames are one of the best investments you can make. Stretch and glue frames are an expense to your business, retensionable frames are an investment in your business.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

chuckh said:


> I'm sure any supplier that you use has clamp adapters, and yes, Newman roller frames are one of the best investments you can make. Stretch and glue frames are an expense to your business, retensionable frames are an investment in your business.


I have half a dozen roller frames I had bought along with a press awhile back and never restretched them. But I am looking to upgrade all my screens to rollers, but I ran into a thought.

People say it's an investment rather then an expense. But I found that it costs around $10 to restretch a 23x31 static frame, how much does it cost to restretch a 23x31 roller frame? 

Where are you buying the mesh from?


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

It costs less because you are not paying for the adhesive and activator. Your mesh lasts longer because when it loses tension you can just retension it. You don't need to cut it out, throw it away, clean the frame, buy new mesh, and restretch.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

chuckh said:


> It costs less because you are not paying for the adhesive and activator. Your mesh lasts longer because when it loses tension you can just retension it. You don't need to cut it out, throw it away, clean the frame, buy new mesh, and restretch.


If you retension the same mesh too often, does it affect the mesh openings to become larger?


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Eventually the mesh stabilizes and becomes "work hardened" and needs no further retensioning since it will then hold its tension throughout the remainder of the life of the mesh. Richard Greaves is the expert on this. Contact him for the technical info.


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## Catspit (Jan 27, 2010)

TshirtGuru said:


> If you retension the same mesh too often, does it affect the mesh openings to become larger?


I think the thing to worry about here is just re-using the mesh too much. Although it may be possible to distort mesh openings, after some time the filaments will fray and become worn with hairy type fuz that will greatly affect ink flow, resolution and coverage. With roller frames, you have to know when it is time to replace the fabric or it will become a problem in the long run. Just like with a static metal frame, you have to know when it is time to replace the mesh simply due to mesh wear rather than tension, or for both reasons. Many people over use the mesh without knowing the consequences. Tension is very important, but mesh condition or “wear” will also drastically affect your printing. When referring to mesh wear, I mean wear from reclaiming and de-hazing too many times. Not necessarily from printing. Reclaiming chemicals and haze removers can be damaging to the mesh especially if used improperly. Point is, you can’t just use the mesh forever just because it holds tension. Well, you can, but I think it will affect the quality of the print when the mesh has been reused too much.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Command performance for chuckh. stretchdevices.com is the expert on this, but this is certainly a subject I have studied.

Newman Roller Frames are not a quick fix - they are for believers. They require more maintenance than any other frame. They are a pain to tape and much harder to clean, but they can print faster and cleaner than any other frame. Everybody knows that tight screens print better. Pin registration sets up faster and the both work better on presses that are tuned, tightened, leveled with close tolerance, equal off-contact like a race car.

Screen printing has a long list of variables. The majority of these variables can be avoided by doing one simple thing. Control your screen tensions! Whether you are printing a simple 1-color design, or a difficult process design you will need a common tool, the frame. Regardless of what mesh you use, you will be able to immediately eliminate a whole list of variables in the printing process simply by being able to control your screen tensions. You cannot do this with a static wood frame or aluminum frame. Start your business with the right frame for ANY type of work that comes your way.

If you are mumbling, "that's not worth it", or you don't want to set-up and print faster, they aren't for you.

A desire to put multiple designs on the same screen is an attempt to "make money, by saving money" not printing faster or better. If you can get Newman's to help you with this, good - but that's not the vision of Mr. Newman. You are making your own way - you're on your own.

I've found that after you have reclaimed a screen 15 or 20 times, you got your money's worth whether you got 4,000 prints or 400,000 prints.

Once you have easily printed white ink on a dark shirt with 35+ newton mesh - you will never go back. High tension is the single most important improvement you can make - especially as your prints are more complicated. 

*Clamp Adapters*
I've been using home made inexpensive 1.25 inch angle iron or aluminium as a clamp adapter and would never even consider clamping directly on a roller.
*
Square Bars*
As noted in an earlier post, the original M1 square bar 18x20 frames were designed for Riley Hopkins original manual presses to take advantage of their rear clamps. An all round roller frame will twist in the clamp adapters when you lift the screen up and down.

MZX frames are 1 7/16" and *HEAVIER *M3 frames are 1 5/8".
*
Tension and mesh openings*
Does a car behave differently at 90 miles per hour compared to 30 mph? Yes, 200 mesh at 10 newtons will have a different mesh opening than at 35 newtons. You will soon adapt to the way that all your mesh will behave differently at higher tension. You will find no insight in knowing how many microns larger each mesh opening is compared to the thrill of easier, faster setup and print runs.

I have never over used mesh or seen "mesh wear" from the squeegee blade and I have pushed many screens past 200,000 prints. Mesh failure comes after the mesh has stabilized, and then it won't hold tension.


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Richard,
I have attended many of your seminars over the last 30+ years and have read just about every one of your articles in the trade mags that I have come across. Thanks for your "final word" on this subject. Wishing you well and God's speed in your recovery.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I've been a part of some arguments over the advantages of newman rollers, and now shurloc ez frames over static aluminum or wood for a while now. While I love my shurloc ez's, they hold tension in the mid 30's, I will say that newmans are better. I will not trade my shurlocs for newmans but I would not trade my newmans for shurlocs either. I love having both in my shop. So many guys argue that they can do great work with an aluminum screen tensioned at 15 newtons, and I don't disagree, because I did it for years, with some really great success. But after having reaped the benefits of higher tensioned screens, 30-50 newtons, I will never print a multi-colored job with a stretch and glue frame ever again. I might print dark ink on a light shirt, one color with a static, but nothing more than that. Our setup times, print times, ink deposits, print detail and final print quality is far superior to what they were when we were using static aluminum frames that it would be assinine to take a step back. I'm a believer, and I've done my research and compared the differences between all of the different screen systems. Most of those who try to argue on behalf of statics, have never used anything else, or don't care to compare all the variables that make one better than the other.


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## standardgraphics (Jul 28, 2008)

any more comments about shur-loc® "E-Z" Frame......
after searching the net and calling around I think this is what I want to buy

ez frames are cheaper but the mesh is more expensive, I like that they are square frame and not round bar because of side clamps on my press
also there is no need to buy a tension meter right away.

my only concern is will the ez frames hold tension or will they have the same tension as my static frames after a few uses..

please help me make a final choice......

thanks


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

They only lose about 3-5 newtons after you stretch them. Most of ours were in the high thirties in the beginning and all have remained in the mid 30's after at least 5 reclaims. We have 30 in stock and they have been great. They are heavy though, slightly heavier than newmans so I hope your press springs can handle them. Our manual press has the option of adding additional springs/shock absorbers to hold heavier screens. What press will you be using them on?


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## standardgraphics (Jul 28, 2008)

its a discovery lancer press (you most likely haven't heard of it) but it's built to fall off a truck....as for the springs I can stack up four screens(static) on 1 arm and the springs hold..

How heavy are they twice ,three time as heavy as statics?

thanks


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Final answer?*



standardgraphics said:


> any more comments about shur-loc® "E-Z" Frame......
> after searching the net and calling around I think this is what I want to buy
> 
> ez frames are cheaper but the mesh is more expensive, I like that they are square frame and not round bar because of side clamps on my press
> ...



bz

*I sum up your profile as:*
 

You are interested in saving money with your frame system.
You want 4 square bars EVEN though you have side clamps.
You don't see the need to use a tension meter.
You want a final choice.
You are not a Newman type.

For every design and print job there are levels of equipment. Some jobs don't need the Porsche, the old station wagon will do. There are many police departments that think it makes sense to use Porsches to catch speeders.








Many people would visit my shop and see all those silver and blue Newmans, and then they would turn and see all those wooden frames. 

Many three color bold prints weren't worth the EFFORT of Newmans, but don't even think of even suggesting we would print white ink with less than 35 newton tension - or that we use mesh under 200.

When you use static frames, you will learn to print white ink with 60 mesh.

alan802 also described his mixed use plan.

The shur-loc® "E-Z" Frame retensioning bar kit provides you with the ability to retension your mesh.

I understand you have a budget and I explained how to get excellent performance even from static frames that can't be re-tensioned.

The day will happen when you will want more tension - or not.

Tell Mark Dorrington I said hello and try his new white ink.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

What "new" white ink?


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Lancer/Excalibur has a new bleed resistant SportPRO Series, that flashes well and is an excellent choice for a beginner that will need opacity printing help, especially in short run, polyester sports uniform rich Canada.

Mark Dorrington is the VP of Sales for Lancer Group, and a highly placed contact for a new printer that doesn't have many advisors.


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## standardgraphics (Jul 28, 2008)

yes the SportPRO Series ink is nice
but, wait till march end for their new ink series...
I ran some test prints with it last week......ya it's killer
one hit white on dark *** and oh so soft

I do *want* all Porsche equipment but i don't think I* need* it.

that is why I am leaning to the EZframes , they may not be the best but they are better than what I have and they look so easy you don't even need a wrench...

Thanks for the quick response R Greaves


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I would say the ez's are 3 times, maybe 4 times as heavy as a static aluminum. They are really a great screen system, not quite as good as newmans, but if you add how easily they are put together and into production, with tension levels in the low 30's to over 40 on a few of ours, they quickly become a great investment. The constant maintenance on the newmans, especially on the first 2-3 rounds through production is something that some don't want to worry about. I think it's worth it, but when you have another option in the high tension realm, the decision becomes a little harder.


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