# choosing a garment printer



## Don276

Hi, i am interested in a garment printer and I am not sure if I should go with one that will only print on light shirts or one that will do both light and dark shirts. I do silk screening now and have some customers that require dark shirts but I am not sure if I should spend the extra money just for that feature. Also if I could get some recommendations on which printers are better. Heard about some problems with T-Jet and heads clogging and replacement costs of $900 a head to replace. Any info would be appreciated... Thanks


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## DAGuide

It is my opinion that the white ink technology is just not where it needs to be unless you are looking at the Kornit machines - which are in a price range of their own. Several people have been successful selling dark dtg prints with a dtg printer (i.e. Fast T-Jet, Flexi Jet, DTG,...). If you are a screen printer and have the same expectation of white ink, you will not be happy.

Saying this, there are several printers that you can purchase that are white ink ready. This means they have the capability to do white ink when you are happy with the prints you get from the white ink and pretreatment process. I would recommend doing searches on this message board, Inkjet Garment Printers.com - Brother GT-541, Fast T-Jet,Mimaki, Belquette Flexi-jet,DTG and more about digital garment printers and Garment Printers :: Garment Printer Information & Reviews. There is a lot of information out there. I would suggest seeing as many machines in action and doing the wash tests before you invest in the technology in general and a specific machine.


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## Don276

Thanks, I am planning on going to ISS Atlantic City and doing more research. I have had some good reports on the Brother Gt541 that it is great and fairly inexpensive to operate. I am thinking maybe going in the direction of printing on light garments untill the ink technology catches up.


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## Greg Hamrick

Welcome to the forums....Mark has covered a good bit on DTG printers. I however, still believe in "screen printing" for dark garments. But hey...I'm a die-hard pastisol monkey. Good luck in your search.



.


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## martinwoods

I own a Brother and love it
Can't do darks but I have screen printing for that right now.
The Brother is fast and reliable. Just my opinion
We have done many washes in hot and warm and they still look like they did the day we printed them (no joke)

Good luck in your purchase


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## DAGuide

Even if you choose to get a printer that is not white-ready, you can still go with plastisol transfers for the dark garments. Granted, you have a certain minimum quanties and have other factors to consider (timeframe, shipping costs)...but, you can still get the job done even if you don't already do screen printing. There are a lot of good dtg machines out in the market. Just find a company that you are comfortable with on support / service.


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## tomtv

I agree with mark on all these things. It is very important that you feel good about whatever direction you go. who you will deal with will make a big difference in your purchase and operational experience. 

The white ink is just not ready for prime time today. That of course could change next month. i feel having the software and hardware for implementing the coming technology is an advantage in the long run. As martin mentioned the brother is a very good machine but is not expandable or ready for white ink, if and when they come up with it there will be another machine to purchase. It is also at the high end of the pricepoint, but is a solid workhorse of a machine. It does have weaknesses just like all machines in the marketplace. In my opinion the bad wrap it has taken for high ink prices is irrelevent in the big picture. Ink is not your highest cost factor in the long run. 

All that to say, do you you homework, talk to distributors and go with who you feel the most comfortable with. Find people that are really interested in your business and not just box peddlers. A good distributor will help give you insight into the industry and keep you abreast of trends, info and marketing opportunities. making a great relationship there will always give you a positive resource as you grow your business.

hope this helps you a little.

Tom


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## Don276

Thanks for the help... I will try to do as much homework as I can. But one more quick question... My primary reason for wanting to print on darks... is I will be printing white on navy t's and sweats with some light blue or red in the design... Is it even worth the time and expense on investing in a printer that will print on darks.... thanks


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## tomtv

If you are only looking at 2-3 color prints I would suggest that you start with the plastisol transfers and see what your quantities are after a few months and then do the math. Direct to garment tends to best serve a multicolor image better and that is where you will see more benefit cost wise, not on 2-3 color printing.

this is just my opinion though,

tom


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## csquared

the heads for the t-jet are like $200 something not 900 and the clogging is not as common now that they have the new bulk ink system. I would agree with tom on the transfers, if you can get away with having a machine for just light shirts you should do it.


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## tomtv

Chris is right, 200 - 300 for the 2200 model heads. If you are going to be looking at a T-Jet I would also suggest not purchasing a 2 model. They are going to be out of them very soon and it is my understanding that there are no more since they do not have a relationship with mastermind, the japanese manufacturer any longer. I am not cutting the people down there but the longer that product is out of their sites the less service and ongoing r & d to solve issues will take place. The 3 model is a little more but it is current technology, not 6 year old tech.

Whatever way you go make sure you are confident in what you are doing. In my opinion frame of mind when making a purchase will effect how you deal with problems and issues that come up with ANY machine on the market.

just my opinion so take it for what you paid for it.

tom


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## csquared

Tom is right, last time I went to the site it said they were out. Like the tjet3 but I have not seen it run yet, that will change at iss atlantic city.


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## Don276

I will be in AC also. I will definatly be looking at the t jet 3 than and probably the flexi jet. The flexi jet from what i have read on this forum seems to be pretty positive. I know everything has pro's and con's but it seems to be liked. I understand flexi is also coming out with a new model which should be interesting also. I will look at the Kornit, probably breifly, because of the price but i would like to see how big of a difference it makes... Hope to see everyone in AC


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## tomtv

don,

I am planning on being at ac myself so if you need some support or info or just opinion don't hesitate to ask. You can email me with and for contact info if you like.

good luck to you in your search,

tom


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## Vtec44

csquared said:


> Tom is right, last time I went to the site it said they were out. Like the tjet3 but I have not seen it run yet, that will change at iss atlantic city.


I've seen the T3, it seems to be just slightly faster than the T2 but is about $3k more. The new loading tray seems to be a bit easier to work with though. However, it is based on the R1800 Epson. As far as the discontinuation of the standard model T & T2, there are over 3000 of them out there. Unless Epson is planning to phase out the 2200 model, I wouldn' worry. However, you may want to do a bit of research on other machines out there too before making your decision. Have fun!


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## Don276

I suppose my next question is: How long or how many shirts can u print before the head need replacing. if 200-300 shirts can be printed... than its not worth it.. if 2000-3000 can be printed .. definatly worth looking into


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## csquared

Well I have not changed mine and have printed WELL over 300 shirts, I am guessing all of the machines that use the epson head will last around the same amount of time.


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## Vtec44

Don't quote me on this, but I remember that the Epson 2200 print head is rated around 50k pages. I'm trying to remember wher I read that from.


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## tomtv

James,

you are correct on that estimate. They are rated for approx 50,000 sheets of 8.5 x 11 pages. I think you can safely assume that printing on shirts with the lint etc. would be harder on the head. I would also mention that if your head comes in contact with ther pretreatment on a dark shirt then you can almost kiss it good by most of the time. This is a proven fact and is a real pain. even if it doesn't kill it comepletely then it will clog individual nozzles which is just as bad.

handled properly I think the head will out last most of these printers lives. There are very few units out there that have printed 10K plus shirts and many have died or had to be refurbed before that figure. To me that is one of the weaknesses of this level of printers. but if you are making enough per shirt then it can be a very good investment.

Tom


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## vapor77

I have read here that White ink clogs heads all the time, but why? Is the ink too thick, or does it dry up too fast? If it's too thick, couldn't you use some type of thinning agent or something?


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## Vtec44

It's waterbased ink, and leaving it inside the print head for an extended period of time will clog it. You have to do daily maintenance on your printer to help reduce the problem, ie cleaning and nozzle check. Plus, it is what it is, an ink jet printer that's converted to print textile ink (at least the low end models). There are pros and cons, you just need to be realistic and make sure that it is right for your business.


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## tomtv

I agree totally. I might add that because these printers are repurposed from their original intent that it becomes more difficult for these machines to run as they were optimized for. On top of the ink and the repurposing most are adding bulk ink systems. This is a huge part of the clogging issues on most of these printers. On our 4800 unit it was obvious there is lint, dust and other little weird things that would come in through the weep hole in the front of the 220 ml bulk cartridge. That will get to the nozzle openings no matter what you do. i have spent the last couple months taking time to discuss this with ink manufacturers and printer repair centers when i get the opportunity. They all 100% agree that it is the major cause, more than even the water based makeup of the ink. Don't get me wrong, it does make a difference, but any contamination via air to the ink is a slow death to your printhead, ink lines and dampers. Remember they were not designed to handle this. On another note the bulk systems allow air in the lines which can assist in there being misprints, color shifting and plain missing channels during the print cycle. Additionally the air in the lines can make the ink drying in the head worse.

Just a few things to keep in mind. White ink is thicker and has TO2 in it that does not stay suspended equally which is another major factor in the clogging.

sorry to go into such detail there but i hope it gives you some perspective.

Tom


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## vapor77

That's all very good information, thanks for sharing.


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## GBengraver

I bought a Mimaki 604 DTG printer in January. I love it.
It is not a real popular brand, but is built for production, Ink cost much less than the Brother (which I consider the comparible machine).

I did not get the discharge model as I am not convinced that the white print technology is ready for prime time.

I think the most important thing is to do your homework and decide what is best for your situation.

Greg


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## tomtv

Greg,

glad to hear you are happy. that is a huge thing in purchasing these machines. they all have a learning curve and each have their own quirks.

I think the mimaki is built like a tank (300+ lbs) and puts out a nice print too. We looked very seriously at it but the print times for the high quality were high and the overall interface operations were just more than we wanted to get into.

I am glad you are having great success with it as that is the whole reason we buy these machines!

Print Away,

Tom


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## vlcnmstr

ok, just so I understand this --
If you only print on white, beige, ash or other really light colors, you don't need to "undercoat" or pretreat. Right? you just have to print on the shirt, let it dry and heat cure it?
So you could just set it up as part of the caveat of folks that want a print from you--"Colors will be effected by the color of the T-shirt" and No dark shirt printed.
Wouldn't that eliminate a lot of problems till the industry "really" has white on dark perfected?


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## DAGuide

Yes, you don't have to pretreat for light colored garments. Some people will water down the pretreatment more than usual for light colors, but it is not necesssary.

You might want to print up a color chart on the different light color shirts so your customers can see how the colors are affected. In the cases of photos of people, I would not try pink shirts. It makes the person look like he/she has a sunburn. Most of the time, if you sound confident when speaking to the customer you should be able to change their mind on a color of shirt that would make the design look bad. Good luck.


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## tomtv

I would caution you on assuming you can print on lighter colored shirts. Most artwork will not print properly on ash gray unless it is very dark in color. even when printing black ink you will see some specks of the ash shirt color. it will be very obvious in yellows, reds, greens and medium or light blues. I have seen some art look ok on ash but not the greatest number of our prints. On light colored shirts you will see that they effect the color of the artwork as well. just a rule of thumb to follow is that if the ink is darker than the shirt you might have a chance but if the art colors are near or lighter than the shirt, no luck. you need to see them in person as well, there are pictures on the net etc. that show cmyk printing without a base on colored shirts that look decent, but in person the colors are way off and look muddy in my opinion.

I think white, natural and ice grey are about all that really looks good unless you are doing a stand alone sunflower on a light yellow shirt. i think that gives you an idea of how limiting it can be. but remember there is business out there for the limited amount of shirt colors that you can print on.

pretreating a light shirt when not using white ink can make a 20% better looking print if done really well. most people doing this use a 50/50 pretreatment with distilled water mix.

Tom


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## T-BOT

full color photo type graphics look good on white shirts. Perhaps recommend white shirts to your customers when using digital transfers and doing onE-off's. Less expensive too.

after all, you the t-shirt printer are in a position to inform and advise what is the best way for your client. TheY appreciate it too...in most cases.

Better to show them samples before you do the job, this will ensure a happy ending. So that they are not expecting a screen printed shirt and you give them a digital transfer printed shirt etc....


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## tomtv

good advice.

tom


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## Don276

whats everyones take on the Tjet Blazer


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## Stitches.Designs

*Stitches & Designs*

We just got a new HM1 Printer
and were having trouble getting it up a running. If there is anyone in eastern KY or southern WV that has one would you consider letting us come and see how yours works?

THANKS


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## atvmxracing

We own the AnaJet which prints on dark shirts using white ink and I agree with the other post that whit ink printing isn't there yet. With that said, we have sold some shirts that turned out great and we were proud to sell. The white ink demands a lot of maintenance and the firmware has a steep learning curve. The Tech Dept. at this company does a good job in supporting their customers and that's a real plus, but bottom line, the white ink technology just isn't developed enough. If you don't have a market that keeps the machine busy on a weekly bases, don't buy one.


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## Shirts61

Hi I want to no if you no anything about the T3?
Like how to run a test line print. I bought one in
Ontario a year ago,my manual does not tell me how


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