# Vapor Apparel is Smelling up the joint



## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

I recently switched a majority of my sublimation orders over from Hanes Softlink to Vapor Apparel. My main reason was that they fit more like a regular tee. The Hanes seemed a little boxy and the length on them seemed to be an issue from time to time.

I was approached by a woman who informed me that her husband has to wear my shirts everyday because it is his company shirt and now because of the Vapor Apparel she has to send him straight to the shower because he wreaks. This does not seem to be an issue with other shirts. Her husband loves the shirts and claims they are the most comfy shirts he owns.

I wear the Vapor and have noticed if I go a little too easy on the deodorant Vapor will let me know. For me, that just tells me I need to give the old arms an extra swipe or two.

Is there another company that makes a dye-sub shirt that fits like Vapor but has the cotton lining like the Softlink.

I love the feel of the Hanes but am not crazy about the way it fits.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

The Hanes Softlinks are being discontinued. This has been validated by two separate suppliers, that post on this forum.

I wish that there were an alternative to Vapor, as their tees are starting to get a bit too expensive when compared to cotton. 

Not everyone that wears a tee is looking to go jogging, or cycling, so the anti wicking feature is of no real benefit to the people that like cotton.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

unfortunately Will is correct...hanes soft link has been discontinued...there are several companies that are now doing 100% polyester


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Cory,

Your customer is learning the hard way that polyester and performance shirts are not all the same. You need to look at manufacturers that add an anti-microbial coating to their fabrics. AFAIK, vapor does not.

Two I know that do are Zorrel and Xpert Performance


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

I thought Vapor did have the Anti-Microbal feature.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Cjoe Design said:


> I thought Vapor did have the Anti-Microbal feature.


The micro line supposedly does but I don't think the regular or backcountry ones do. The stink factor certainly points to them not having the treatment.

Check the web site. No mention of it on those.


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

Here is a writeup that goes with the Vapor Basic Apparel shirt that is the same shirt that I am getting the complaint with:

*100% 5.9oz Spun Polyester Basic T, Adult Large, L, Ash Heather, Short Sleeve. Styled and designed to allow for maximum movement and comfort and to wick moisture away from the body with antimicrobial and antistain features.*


So are they stating that they wick the moisture away but the body odor is left behind? I can see this being healthier because the body stays dry but now the wearer has BO worse than if he just wore a cotton tee.
Maybe I will just include a stick of deodorant with every dozen shirts (LOL)


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

My customer did say that usually her husbands shirts stunk but he didn't.Now his shirt does not smell, just him. So is the shirt working so good that it is wicking the moisture away and repelling the BO back to the skin instead of being absorbed by the shirt? I am a little confused on this whole thing.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Honestly, I'm not sure what they use. I just looked at the web site and the anti-microbial line is not on the basic tee description but is listed in the fabric descriptions. My experience is that vapor shirts stink more than other brands, esp the ringer & basic tees under similar use. I don't use them primarily because of this. 

All untreated and a lot treated polyester shirts smell bad after you sweat in them. Oils from your skin (and possibly waste from bacterial activity) bond to the fibers and don't come off easily. It's a cumulative effect that gets worse over time.

The best fabrics are ones that are designed with anti microbial properties from the get-go. Most 'coatings' will wash off after a while. Do your homework and understand what's actually done by the manufacturers. Don't be afraid to experiment to validate their claims!

Once you have a smelly shirt, the only real solution is to toss it and get another one. For new(er) shirts, make sure you wash them IMMEDIATELY after wearing. Don't throw them in the laundry pile. It just makes things worse.




Cjoe Design said:


> My customer did say that usually her husbands shirts stunk but he didn't.Now his shirt does not smell, just him. So is the shirt working so good that it is wicking the moisture away and repelling the BO back to the skin instead of being absorbed by the shirt? I am a little confused on this whole thing.


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## palmetto (Feb 22, 2008)

I've never noticed this about vapor; however, I rarely sweat much so I'd probably not be able to tell. This concerns me though b/c I have people buying them for those vary properties. I even had one guy buy them for undershirts to wear under his uniform. I thought this was odd due to the expense but he wanted them.


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## palmetto (Feb 22, 2008)

palmetto said:


> I've never noticed this about vapor; however, I rarely sweat much so I'd probably not be able to tell. This concerns me though b/c I have people buying them for those vary properties. I even had one guy buy them for undershirts to wear under his uniform. I thought this was odd due to the expense but he wanted them.


I just spoke with my husband and he says the undershirt guy has said he really likes them and has had no problems with smell. ummm. don't know. This is really the first I've heard of this.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Cjoe Design said:


> I was approached by a woman who informed me that her husband has to wear my shirts everyday because it is his company shirt and now because of the Vapor Apparel she has to send him straight to the shower because he wreaks.


An easier alternative, might be for her to change her husband. 

Seriously though, the Vapor line are pushed on their moisture wicking capabilities. This I understand, is aimed at athletes and other strenuous leisure activities, with the aim being to keep the wearer cool. 

I know that with cotton it is the tee, rather than the wearer that ends up smelling bad. I don't know whether these Vapor garments are actually drawing more sweat through the pores of the user, or simply allowing trapped moisture to escape.


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

Conde is STILL a supplier of Hanes Soft Link shirts. We have TENS of thousands of Hanes Soft Link shirts available.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

There is also a long established company called Xpres in Europe, that sells their own equivalent of the Hanes Soft Link.


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## needaprint (Aug 30, 2008)

the Xpres t-shirts don't compare to Vapor...they still have that smooth shine to them. the vapor is much softer feeling


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi Richard, the Xpres are cotton inside and polyester outside, the same as Hanes Soft Link.

Vapor are just far too expensive in the UK. Some work out at nearly £5 by the time vat is added. Ok for sports folk, but makes the end product uncompetitive for general wear.


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## needaprint (Aug 30, 2008)

you can get the basic tees for just 3.39 inc vat. they are a superior top in my opinion...but suppose it depends on your business model and target market


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

I target the high end of the market and sell worldwide through five separate sites.


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## needaprint (Aug 30, 2008)

sorry that was not a direct aim at you dreamglass...it was just a general comment on the vapor tee's...was just saying the 60p ex vat difference in my opinion for xpres isn't a high enough saving for people to drop the quality.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

The reality is, that whilst sublimation is great for hard substrates such as mugs and coasters, most people prefer cotton garments over polyester. This would probably explain why there is such a limited range of polyester products available, when compared to cotton items.

Direct to garment printing is becoming much more available now, which will inevitably start to make inroads into the sublimation garment industry. The biggest benefit with sublimation has been a high definition image, with minimum hand (feel) to the image. There are now other processes capable of doing that now, onto cotton blanks which are available in a wider range of styles, more pastel colours and at a far lower cost than sublimation garments. 

Sad, but true.


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## needaprint (Aug 30, 2008)

do you think dtg will take over for garment printing?


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

DREAMGLASS said:


> There is also a long established company called Xpres in Europe, that sells their own equivalent of the Hanes Soft Link.


Can you purchase these Xpress shirts in the United States? Since I do sublimation, most of my orders are under 36 pcs so I would not be buying major quantities so shipping from over seas would be an issue.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

needaprint said:


> do you think dtg will take over for garment printing?


The thing with dtg, is that the quality has dramatically increased, the machines have become more practical, more people are aware of the process and secondhand machines at affordable prices, are becoming available. On just 100 tees you could typically save around £200 by using cotton blanks. Do that volume weekly and that would equate to an extra 10k a year in your own pocket, rather than a suppliers.

I love sublimation, but you can't argue with the figures. To make the industry more competitive, manufacturers need to reflect on the prices they currently charge and to offer a broader span of sublimation garments.


Cory, Xpres manufacture the tees themselves. I don't know if they sell them in the states, but their web site is at xpres.co.uk if you want to ask them directly.


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## Lorcan (Jun 11, 2007)

I looked at DTG 18 months ago before I got into dye-sub and wasn't impressed. The kit was pricey and the the samples I received were quite fuzzy and faded rather too quickly. My customers prefer cotton though and I'd also like to be able to print on black so at some point I might want to make the jump. Who are the DTG front runners and is there a trade show I can go to to check them out?


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

You *can* print onto black with sublimation. Obviously not direct onto the garment as the design would be invisible. The work around is to print onto a substrate, then adhere the substrate to the garment. The two materials available for doing this are subli-flock and subli-dark.


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## Lorcan (Jun 11, 2007)

Neither of which are suitable for what I want. The other reason I couldn't use DTG was I need to be able to print A3+ size (329 x 483mm), and none of them seem to go that large.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

There are now printers out capable of printing up to and above A3 size. Check out the dtg kiosk on google.


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## Lorcan (Jun 11, 2007)

I have, it only goes to 12" wide (305mm). Looks like I'll be sticking with dye sub for a while!


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## Lorcan (Jun 11, 2007)

Getting back on topic for a moment I noticed when I first started wearing Vapors that they do seem to make you sweat a bit. I wasn't sure if they actually make you sweat more, or that they carry the sweat away so that you notice it more, but either way after a little while I got used to it. I still prefer a cotton shirt on a hot day, or when I am driving a long way as the Vapors feel "prickly" sometimes against the car seat, but most of the time they are just fine and I've had no complaints from my customers regarding this. The only complaints I ever get are regarding the opacity.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

I have tried to source regular polyester tees within the UK, as an alternative to paying Vapor prices, but haven't managed to source a supplier yet. Trying to find something that is 100 percent polyester and looks half decent that is the problem.


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

I wear the Vapor Basic tees all the time and I find them more comfortable than a cotton. My customers once they wear them really prefer the comfort aspect. I have had customers want to buy a few extra blanks just to wear because they are so comfortable or they wear them underneath other clothing.

One quickie question. I just sublimated a couple dozen personalized hockey shirts where I added thier number into each logo. They loved the added personalization that they could not get from silkscreen. They just asked me if I could do some practice jersies the same way. I have never seen any sublimatable hockey jersies. does anyone have a source?


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## needaprint (Aug 30, 2008)

do you mean like a hoodie type thing?


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

needaprint said:


> do you mean like a hoodie type thing?


No, A hockey jersey is very similar to a football jersey. I am sure they are not interchangable but they look close.

I know I could do plastiscol transfers on a regular hockey jerzees but then I would loose the whole personalization part that they liked in the tees I did.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Roller and some of the newer jerseys are sublimated. As long as the material can handle the temps, you should be fine. I've never worn a hockey jersey that wasn't 100% poly.


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## RavensFan (Mar 4, 2008)

Do you know if they are washing the shirts using a fabric softener? This will block the "performance" of any wicking and anit-microbial shirt.


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## gothicaleigh (Jun 16, 2007)

RavensFan said:


> Do you know if they are washing the shirts using a fabric softener? This will block the "performance" of any wicking and anit-microbial shirt.


That may be the problem (I was chuckling all the way through this thread as I personally have never heard of the odor complaint), I recall Vapor sending out printed warnings about fabric softeners clogging their fabric.


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## gothicaleigh (Jun 16, 2007)

DREAMGLASS said:


> The reality is, that whilst sublimation is great for hard substrates such as mugs and coasters, most people prefer cotton garments over polyester. This would probably explain why there is such a limited range of polyester products available, when compared to cotton items.


May depend upon your market. Wicking fabrics are a huge trend over here right now, especially in sport/polo shirts.


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## gothicaleigh (Jun 16, 2007)

Lorcan said:


> Getting back on topic for a moment I noticed when I first started wearing Vapors that they do seem to make you sweat a bit. I wasn't sure if they actually make you sweat more, or that they carry the sweat away so that you notice it more, but either way after a little while I got used to it.


I have actually wondered about this myself. The whole reason your body naturally sweats is to cool itself down. If shirts wick the moisture away quickly, your body may be producing more sweat to compensate.

About this odor problem though, does the smelly gentleman wear the Vapors as undershirts? Wicking shirts draw moisture away from the skin where it is supposed to then evaporate or dry. If the Vapors are being worn as undershirts, the sweat isn't exposed to open air, will not be able to evaporate quickly, and may be why there is a smell.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

Generally Hockey Jerseys are made of knit polyester.


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

So Kevin, Does this mean that the hockey jersies sublimate well? I know not all polyester sublimate the same. specially the shine factor. But, I would imagine that the hockey jersies are pretty durable that might make them a better candidate for sublimation.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Cory,

I would order a sample, and play with it. You might have to lower the temp, and use Vapor Foam underneath to get a good image without press marks or shine. I have pressed them in the past with great results. I don't remember the specific brand at the time, as it was several years ago.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

conde tech said:


> Conde is STILL a supplier of Hanes Soft Link shirts. We have TENS of thousands of Hanes Soft Link shirts available.


I got an email the other day from Meg R. who said you still supplied Soft Link shirts. I know this is going to sound stupid, but are you just selling off what you have left, or has Hanes actually discontinued the brand? And why are you the only vendor who still sells them? I guess what I'm asking is did they (Hanes) or didn't they discontinue the brand?


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## Easy Lee (Jul 5, 2006)

Vapor Shirts are anti-microbial. The anti-microbial agent is added during the process of making the fabric and not after the garment has been completed and sewn together so the feature is within the garment itself and not applied as a topical treatment. 

There is one thing to remember, do not use fabric softener when washing and drying Vapor garments. The chemicals in fabric softeners coat the fibers of the garment and lessen the performance of the shirt. 

I'd say the garment was doing its job and wicking away the moisture from the body and leaving the remnants of a hard days' work.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

That's not quite how it works...

Your body pumps out sweat in order to cool itself. It's the evaporation of the moisture that does the cooling. A performance or wicking shirt will pull that sweat off your skin and distribute it out towards the exterior. It also keeps you more comfortable by keeping the moisture off of your skin. 

By increasing the surface area, you get greater evaporation and thus a greater cooling effect. This makes your natural cooling system more efficient so it doesn't have to work as hard to cool you down. This translates in many situations to sweating _less_. Granted, if it's really hot and humid, you're going to sweat no matter what.

What's really happening with respect to the smell is this: 

Your body has to types of sweat glands eccrine and apocrine. Eccrine glands produce the kind of sweat that makes you wet. Apocrine glands produce a fatty sweat which, when bacteria breaks it down, smells bad. Polyester fabrics have a net positive ionic charge that pulls in the oils (fat) from the sweat and hangs on to them. Soap is normally used to break these kinds of bonds to get the dirt off but in the case of polyester it's ineffective because the bonds are so strong. Bacteria comes in, eats, multiplies and starts getting the funk on. The effect is cumulative so over time it gets worse and worse. 

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the anti-microbial treatments try to deal with this by injecting negatively charged molecule that neutralizes the charge. Fabric softener apparently adversely affects this chemistry, probably by breaking the chain and re-introducing the negative charge.

Maybe somebody who knows more about this can describe the chemistry in more detail. I'm a software engineer who got straight C's in chemistry. 



gothicaleigh said:


> I have actually wondered about this myself. The whole reason your body naturally sweats is to cool itself down. If shirts wick the moisture away quickly, your body may be producing more sweat to compensate.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

gothicaleigh said:


> May depend upon your market. Wicking fabrics are a huge trend over here right now, especially in sport/polo shirts.


I wouldn't be seen dead in a polo shirt.  Sports clothing tends to be dominated by the likes of Nike and Adidas. Most people in Europe would only want to be seen wearing a recognised high profile brand name, in sports attire.

In a commercial context, polyester simply doesn't offer enough colours, enough styles, or enough manufacturers to choose from.


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## andrewcup172 (Apr 2, 2008)

Hi there i have recently received a expres t-shirt from them to try and to be honest it has come out faded it is 37% cotton and 63% polyester think i am gonna ditch the subdye onto t-shirts as the price of the 100% t-shirts are astronomical as where i can pick my t-shirts up cotton for 60p. I find using a cotton t-shirt and using jet pro soft paper gives a far superior look used with durabrite pigment ink. And have washed these t-shirts a lot of times and found the print onto the t-shirt with the jetpro soft seems to get better as you wash it.


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## andrewcup172 (Apr 2, 2008)

Right lol i will take back what i said about the expres t-shirts after receiving free sublimation paper samples. I have just printed onto the back of it with the paper expres sent to me and have had a awsome picture come out onto the t-shirt which i am well happy with. I did alter the heat press pressure to a little heavier and pressed for 30 seconds. The image has come out like what i have see on my computer screen. I will try and put some pics up for you to view of the top i have done. Cheers


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## vadan (Mar 9, 2010)

I've been having a few issues with the Xpres tee's.

When we press, it leaves yellow marks, almost like burn on the exposed areas. We use the Xpres transfer paper and their recommended pressing time, we also tried lowering this but still happens.

Not sure what to do... to be honest, we don't get much demand for dye sub'd tees, its majoritively vinyl so the GX7000 is only really used for hard substrates.

We're also looking to get in to rhinestones now and have just purchased R-Wear but having great difficulty with the template material.

Xpres are a great company.


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## edward1210 (Nov 7, 2009)

CUSTOM UK said:


> I have tried to source regular polyester tees within the UK, as an alternative to paying Vapor prices, but haven't managed to source a supplier yet. Trying to find something that is 100 percent polyester and looks half decent that is the problem.


check www.carolinamade.com 
AUGUSTA® WICKING/ANTIMICROBIAL T-SHIRT
Adult Sizes S - 3X • 3 dozen/case 
• 100% polyester wicking/antimicrobial knit 
• Wicks moisture away from the body 
• Heat sealed label • Self-fabric collar 
• Double-needle coverstitched collar and armholes 
• Set-in sleeves • Dobule-needle hemmed sleeves


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## Jason's_Place (Nov 1, 2009)

Whew.... I just thought it was me stinking, lol. I am doing some dye sub but havn't printed any shirts yet. I bought an Under Armour shirt to wear to see if all the "wicking" and "makes you cooler" hype was really worth it and I loved that shirt and was well pleased, then I found some "wicking" shirts from another retailer and noticed that when I wear them, by the day I am running myself out of my own truck!!!!! My Under Armour shirt is much older than the other shirts andI never notice a smell with it. Thanks for this very helpful post! So when I do finally print some shirts, who should I go with?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

I have sold the VA and Denali's here in Fl. for softball. We play year round and in some serious heat n humidity. Never had a issue with a smell from the shirts.

Good Luck
Mark


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