# Help Wanted: ink bleeding - white not opaque - ink going through t-shirt



## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Could someone please, please, please help me???

I have just done my first bit of screen printing and have encountered a few problems. Ive attached some images so you can see exactly what I mean.

1. the ink seems to have blead and the lettering is not crisp.
2. the ink is not perfectly white like it should be but ghosted in places
3. the ink has gone through the tshirt.

Iam using TZ ink could it be down to this. I really am at a loss. If anyone could please help me that would be great. 










Thanks in advance
James


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Sorry for being a bumb ***. Hopefully this photo should be better.


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Is TZ ink water based? It looks like it.

1.) use a higher meshed screen. Those letters look to be on the itty-bitty side of things. A tighter screen should help keep things crisper.

2.) Get your off contact to about 1/8thish of an inch. That would be about 2 quarters stacked. Or about the thickness of a corrugated cardboard box. 

3.) Flash it straight after you print it. It should help set the ink before it gets a chance to seep and spread.

4.) Plastisol?

5.) Great idea with the screening of the tagless labels. Looks big-time.


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Thanks Jong

Im pretty new to screen printing so please bear with me...

When to say higher mesh count, what would a higher mesh count be (the one I used was a 43T). Also with a higher mesh count... does that mean there are more or less holes in it?

Without sounding rude, I didnt understand point 2 about the contact being 1/8thish. What is the contact?

I dont think I have to flash TZ ins as with plastisolls as they dry naturall apparently? I got some special cleaner to clean the ink from the screen so that it doesnt dry up.

Glad you like the labels. Cheers

Do you think I may be pressing on too hard or the screen may have moved as I dont have it clamped down, I was trying to hold it as tight as possible, but I suppose it could have moved.

Thanks again.

James


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Off contact is the distance between the screen and the shirt/platen. You need some space (off contact)

Looks like your printing way too hard causing the ink to spread and from the looks of it your using waterbased inks and will need to print flash print to get the bright white your after. 

To make things easy why not print black on that shirt. Should still be easily readable and will be opaque on the shirt. - Just a thought


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Ok thanks fluid ill give it a go in black. Although I do want to be able to print in all colours. Ive just had a look at the off contact thing and I think I know what you mean.

You say im printing too hard? I think you maybe right. I nearly broke my fingers. Why also is the white not fully opaque, as the ink was really thick?

I dont actually have a press just a screen (proffesionaly stretched and a platen I made myself. I have bought all the other stuff like squeege and ink, Hopefully when I know I can do it I will buy all the proper stuff but didnt want to buy it all straight out incase I wasted my money.

How many passes do I need to be making?

Also why ha sthe ink come through the shirt?

Thanks again
James


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: Help Wanted*



jamesshaw said:


> Thanks Jong
> 
> Im pretty new to screen printing so please bear with me...
> 
> When to say higher mesh count, what would a higher mesh count be (the one I used was a 43T). Also with a higher mesh count... does that mean there are more or less holes in it?


Yes, a higher mesh count would have more and smaller holes per measurement. 43T may be a bit too open for such a small design. Especially with a free-flowing ink like you're using. The downside to using a tighter mesh with water based stuff is that it may dry in the screen quicker.
maybe try a 60T (150tpi) first and see if things are any crisper.



> Without sounding rude, I didnt understand point 2 about the contact being 1/8thish. What is the contact?


Off-contact is just what it sounds like. It's basically just a way to keep the mesh from coming into contact with the fabric before and after you pull the squeegee. It could be to just tape a couple 1 inch by 2inch bits of cardboard flat against bottom of the screen. 



> I dont think I have to flash TZ inks as with plastisolls as they dry naturall apparently? I got some special cleaner to clean the ink from the screen so that it doesnt dry up.


Correct, you don't _have_ to _cure_ the ink but sometimes flashing it helps get things set so that the ink doesn't bleed out or through the fabric. Then longer you have to wait for it to dry the longer the ink has to work it's way into places it shouldn't be.



> Glad you like the labels. Cheers


Absolutely!



> Do you think I may be pressing on too hard or the screen may have moved as I dont have it clamped down, I was trying to hold it as tight as possible, but I suppose it could have moved.


That is entirely possible. You'll probably want to make a screen printing station if you can. Get some hinge-clamps and a sturdy surface to start with then you get to use both hands when printing. It'll give you a lot more freedom to experiment and troubleshoot stuff like what you're dealing with now. But there could be lots of reasons things happen. Too rounded / too soft squeegees, humidity, weird cotton in the fabric, ink being pulled back into the screen after you print, pressing too hard and pulling too slow.
Once you get a station that cooperates with you things get way easier.

Best of luck.


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Once again thanks Jon. Youve been most helpfull as has fluid.

I have a friend who makes vaults and safes, so im gonna get him to make me a hinge of some kind. Any ideas where I could get a simple cost effective one from??

Thanks again
Best 
James


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: Help Wanted*

these are cheap and easy: 
"Heavy Duty Hingeclamps"









These are slightly less cheap but a little easier and sturdier. 
"Speedball Hingeclamps"


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Help Wanted*

Cheers Jon they look like they should do the trick

Thanks
James


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

You say flashing will help.

Can someone give more informations: 
Is this better to flash when you print with water based ink ?

This threat interrest me because I expect to use water based ink, and want to no if I have to bue a flash unit.

cheers


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

You will always find a need to flash when printing t-shirts whether your using waterbased or plasticol inks.

even if just to keep the design nice and crisp when printing multi colored designs


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## screendreamz (Jun 19, 2007)

james i know you might want to find a shop near you that might let you take a lesson on printing as well i know i have found that using another printer to critique my style i have become better and i have only been printing a little over 10 months and have steped up from doing one color prints to a full 6 color print with halftones its kinda fun when you actually get good if you are near me in texas i would be glad to help you out showing you some techniques


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: Help Wanted*



jamesshaw said:


> When to say higher mesh count, what would a higher mesh count be (the one I used was a 43T).


Something like a 62T or 77T perhaps.



jamesshaw said:


> Also with a higher mesh count... does that mean there are more or less holes in it?


More.



jamesshaw said:


> Without sounding rude, I didnt understand point 2 about the contact being 1/8thish. What is the contact?


Most printing is done with the screen elevated from the substrate so the screen only comes in contact as the print stroke moves across.



jamesshaw said:


> I dont think I have to flash TZ ins as with plastisolls as they dry naturall apparently?


Particularly thin ink on particularly thin fabric can bleed, which happens as it dries. Jong didn't say you needed to do it to dry the ink, but suggested "It should help set the ink before it gets a chance to seep and spread".



jamesshaw said:


> Do you think I may be pressing on too hard or the screen may have moved as I dont have it clamped down, I was trying to hold it as tight as possible, but I suppose it could have moved.


It's likely. You mentioned the ink is coming through the shirt, which is usually the result of printing too hard. When you're printing that hard, it's also a lot harder to keep the screen from moving slightly (and even slight movement will ruin a print).

If you're not cleaning the front of your screen between attempts, you may also have fixed the problem without knowing it, because the dirty screen continued to cause ghosting.


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Thanks to one and all you all been raelly helpful.

Cheers for the invite screendreamz, although I am in the UK, but the offer is greatlly appreciated.

What could I use instead of a flash dryer as they seem pretty pricey.

Cheers
James


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## screendreamz (Jun 19, 2007)

Well in the case you are looking you might try building your own. i have seen some do it as you only need a few things from what they have told me. anelement from an oven works and you would only have to build a case for it and a stand with a on off switch and a power cord. or you can do like we did when our flasher went out w bought a heat lamp or several ov them and rigged them up so we could make it till the new parts came in.


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Ahh right so a heat lamp will work?


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

Don't discount the wife's hairdryer. High on the heat not so high on the blow. Hey in a pinch it beats a blank.


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Could I use a heat gun to flash dry?


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

jamesshaw said:


> Could I use a heat gun to flash dry?


You Betcha!


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## screendreamz (Jun 19, 2007)

actually anytype of heat you can apply will help the heat gun and blow dryer will do you till you can get a flasher or build one especially if you already have one.


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Hi again all!!!


As Advised I have purchased a 77t (yellow) screen which is bringing out the detail more. Ill try and post a picture. My first attempt was almost perfect, not quite fully opaque but almost, and then every one after that seemed to have bits of the print missing.

Could this be down the ink im using and the mesh count. Im using a TZ ink that doesnt need curing as it dries in the air.

I was thinking that by the time I come to do my second print the in could have dried in the stencil maybe!!! 

Would it be advisable to get some plastisol inks that need to be cured therefore they wouldnt dry in the stencil.

Im so frustrated!!!!! I overcome one problem and another hits me.

Pleeeeeeeas help


Thanks
James


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

Yep. 
The jump to plastisol seems like it would be daunting. After all you can get water based inks at hobby shops it must be easier right? not so much.
The headaches saved from using plastisol are absolutely worth it. Plastisols don't run, don't seep, are more opaque. But they do have a heavier hand, and require things like flash units, screen opening sprays, and a different set of cleaning chemicals. But the stuff you gain in workability is more than worth it.


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## screendreamz (Jun 19, 2007)

you might look at the off contact again and see if your pressure putting ink down needs to be greater or less, also if your screen mesh is higher which i think it is (not familier with a 77t term as you say) the ink might be sticking to the screen when you lift the screen off look at these details and see which seems to be effecting you


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Thanks

I was also thinking of getting a small single colour station so I know all the off contact is correct as at the minute im using two pieces of card> and holding my screen on the tshirt with G Clamps. Any ideas where I can get one from preferably in the states.

Cheers
James


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## screendreamz (Jun 19, 2007)

there are a number of sources you can look up one of which is called Ryonet out of washington state and a few others in texas called McBEE supply in houston and Graphic Soultions group they are some of the ones i deal with daily and have had a great responce from them


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## jong (Oct 11, 2006)

jamesshaw said:


> Thanks
> 
> I was also thinking of getting a small single colour station so I know all the off contact is correct as at the minute im using two pieces of card> and holding my screen on the tshirt with G Clamps. Any ideas where I can get one from preferably in the states.
> 
> ...


$137 + Shipping. From Ryonet. Clickety.


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## jundogg (Jul 20, 2007)

hi james,

just wanna be updated about your progress on this.
its because im also having the same issue

please advise the steps youve done to correct this. 
thanks


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

Hi Doug

Ive craked it now. What I did was change to pastisol inks, in my humble opinion they are miles better than the (what I pressume was a waterbased ink) TZ Ink that air drys.

Fair enough there is more to curing a plastisol but once thats sorted your laughing.

I havent had it again since I swapped inks. If your not already using plastisols I would reccomend swapping.

Hope it helps
James


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## majkthreads (Mar 29, 2006)

jamesshaw said:


> Hi Doug
> 
> Ive craked it now. What I did was change to pastisol inks, in my humble opinion they are miles better than the (what I pressume was a waterbased ink) TZ Ink that air drys.
> 
> ...



I can tell you why your having this problem, it's because your using water based inks. The ink is drying in the screen quickly. Self drying, water based inks are fine but you have to print, flash, print the ink and shirt. The ink is not opaque enough on the first pass. In fact sometimes you have to print and flash twice to make it look right. A good press will really help you nail down great prints. You will want good registration so you can flash the ink and still print on it again. 

Your water based ink is drying to quickly in your screen, that's whats happening with this problem. 

Hope that helps.


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## jundogg (Jul 20, 2007)

jamesshaw said:


> Hi Doug
> 
> Ive craked it now. What I did was change to pastisol inks, in my humble opinion they are miles better than the (what I pressume was a waterbased ink) TZ Ink that air drys.
> 
> ...


nice to know that. im just think that plastisols are messy and complicated that's why im not yet into it. i read that lots of chemicals will be used with it - retarder, extender, etc. 

im not yet inspired to use it. i find it so expensive as well. please enlighten me. =)
thanks


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## jamesshaw (May 9, 2007)

They are no more complicated or messy than water based. Believe me the advantages of plastisol far out weigh the disadvantages.

Just buy a small amount of one colour and try it out. you will never know till you try it.

Go on give it a try... you never know you might like it


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## jundogg (Jul 20, 2007)

tell me, what do i have to take note when dealing with plastisols?

aside from the ink, what should i have on hand that goes along with that ink - chemicals, screen cleaners, etc. ???

thanks


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## majkthreads (Mar 29, 2006)

jundogg this is all you need: NEW Citra Paste Biodegradable, Plastisol Screen Wash Quart

Just a plastisol ink remover. You already have your emulsion remover.


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## jundogg (Jul 20, 2007)

majkthreads said:


> jundogg this is all you need: NEW Citra Paste Biodegradable, Plastisol Screen Wash Quart
> 
> Just a plastisol ink remover. You already have your emulsion remover.


thanks! but how about those retarders, extenders, etc.?
WB inks dont use those chemicals, right?


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## majkthreads (Mar 29, 2006)

Here is the one I ordered. 

IC Curable Reducer Pint

Only $7 a pint. I think you'll like plastisol inks allot.


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