# Crooked font on baseball hats !HELP!



## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

Hello,

Just bought a SWF 15 needle and am fairly new to embroidering with a cap hoops.

Here is the issue:

Have some 2 rows of basic block font running about 4 inches long.
The text is making a slight U shape after it finishes embroidering. Now I know why it's doing that.
As its running I can see the hat fabric is being pulled as the embroidery gets further from the center.

I've tried extra thick stabilizer, pulling it super tight when mounting the hat, not pulling it to tight while mounting the hat, running a extra long piece of stabilizer all the way around the hat hoop, using sticky stabilizer, along with many other random things.

Any clue how I can get the hat to not pull the further it gets from the center seam?

Basically its twisting the hat fabric while the hat is turning on the machine.

Any advise would be great


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

If you could post a picture that might help. Is the hat fabric getting caught on something? Does your design start at the bottom center and embroider out? Is your design taller than 2.25" high? If you make your design smaller does that help?


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

SunEmbroidery said:


> If you could post a picture that might help. Is the hat fabric getting caught on something? Does your design start at the bottom center and embroider out? Is your design taller than 2.25" high? If you make your design smaller does that help?


When I get a moment I'll post some photos.
It's not so much of a U that you can tell when you are wearing the hat, just a slight arch.
The hats I use are unreconstructed washed cotton twill, fairly light weight.
The design starts from right to left.
It's the white bar that come out from the machine to keep it taught, that are causing it to twist.
Design is about 1.5" tall.

Best way to describe the issue is....

Imagine the center seam is straight when the hat is mounted on the machine.
As the machine embroiders from right to left is slowly twist the fabric causing the center seam to twist.
When the needle is lined up with the center seam its straight but as the center seam gets further from the needle the center seam gets pulled in random directions.

Does any of that make sense? hah


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

Hat designs should embroider from center out. I'm not sure what you mean by the white bar. Are the sides clipped down?


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

Yeah, my side clips are clipped down really well.
Here is a photo of what it looks like when it's done embroidering.


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

!New info!

It seems while the stabilizer is still attached to the hat after it embroiders out, it looks straight but as soon as you pull the stabilizer off; the embroidery starts to curve upwards (causing the embroidery to make a U shape).

Any ideas?


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

Uploaded a video of the design embroidering out


https://youtu.be/V7NOUgA_1Wc


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

It looks like the design could be lower on the hat. Can you get closer to the brim? The higher a design is, especially on lower profile hats, the closer you get to the curved part of the hat which can cause problems.

I would edit the sequencing of the design. The line closest to the brim should embroider first. It should start at the center and embroider to the right then start at the center and embroider to the left. In other words, start embroidering at the letter "M" and embroider through "I" then start at "A" and end at "S". Then start at 'U" and end at "T" then start at "T" and end at the "E". I don't know what software you use but in Pulse there is a setting that will automatically break a line at the center. The only thing you'll have to watch for is sometimes there is an added space at the center where the line break is. If that's the case you can kern your text to remove the space. Since "future" starts close to the center you may be able to get away without breaking that word if you have an extra space problem.


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

SunEmbroidery said:


> It looks like the design could be lower on the hat. Can you get closer to the brim? The higher a design is, especially on lower profile hats, the closer you get to the curved part of the hat which can cause problems.
> 
> I would edit the sequencing of the design. The line closest to the brim should embroider first. It should start at the center and embroider to the right then start at the center and embroider to the left. In other words, start embroidering at the letter "M" and embroider through "I" then start at "A" and end at "S". Then start at 'U" and end at "T" then start at "T" and end at the "E". I don't know what software you use but in Pulse there is a setting that will automatically break a line at the center. The only thing you'll have to watch for is sometimes there is an added space at the center where the line break is. If that's the case you can kern your text to remove the space. Since "future" starts close to the center you may be able to get away without breaking that word if you have an extra space problem.



I am running a trial of Wilcom Hatch.
I edited the file to embroider from the center out. It only came out worse.... Like, a lot worse 

If I embroider closer to the brim it will look not so good. The embroidery is already about 1.5" from the brim. Any closer and I will more then likely have upset customers telling me how the design is to low on the hat.

Its definitely something that has to do with how the embroidery is being pulled by the machine while embroidering. Just can't seem to figure out how to resolve the issue.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

Personally I think 1.5" above the brim is too high on the hat. Usually customers complain that the design is too high rather than too low although your customer could be different.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

One thing about customers: If you're the embroiderer then you're the expert - not your customer. You may have to explain to them why the design can't be located high on the hat.


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## SpiritGirl (Feb 24, 2011)

I try to stick within the 2" for the total design on the hat. Starting it at 1.5" from the brim is way to high in my opinion. I am not fond of hats as they can all be a pain in the arse. 
Have you tried slowing your machine down? I run mine around 400 when doing hats. Slower if its thick in the center. 
Good Luck!


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

SunEmbroidery said:


> One thing about customers: If you're the embroiderer then you're the expert - not your customer. You may have to explain to them why the design can't be located high on the hat.



I may be confused but are you telling me the design shouldn't be centered with the hat?
The design the way I'm embroidering it is already lower then center but to think I'm being told to embroider lower is confusing. 
You think I should almost have the bottom row of text touching the brim...?


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

SpiritGirl said:


> I try to stick within the 2" for the total design on the hat. Starting it at 1.5" from the brim is way to high in my opinion. I am not fond of hats as they can all be a pain in the arse.
> Have you tried slowing your machine down? I run mine around 400 when doing hats. Slower if its thick in the center.
> Good Luck!


Slowing down the machine is the only advise so far that seems logical. Thanks!


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## SpiritGirl (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is my routine for doing hats:
Straighten out the bill as best ya can. - just use your hands and take some of the curl out of it by bending it in the opposite direction - gently!
Unfold the flap inside the hat and place your backing on the edge and place in cap apparatus. Clamp it in. (For unstructured hats i usually use the binder clips on the bottom.)
Before I put it on the machine I smooth out the backing, forming it to the shape of the hat. Mostly towards the brim of the hat where it meets the cap frame. Sometimes the backing gets creases in it, sometimes it doesn't. 
Put it on the machine. Sometimes I have to redo the clips if it looks like it is pulling the hat to one side or the other.
Center to needle. 
Enter the design and colors and rotate.
Hold breath, say a quick prayer to the embroidery gods and push start (most times i advance the needle to where it begins sewing to make sure it's sewing in the right direction) 
Reduce speed of the machine before it really gets going.

Sorry I didn't have an unstructured hat to show. I use Tajima machines so yours may be different.

Not sure if you wanted to know all this.. but there ya go.
Running the design from the center usually helps as well as stated in the previous post.

You will always get some arcing as the design is basically going on a curved surface. To totally eliminate that you would have to embroider on the cap front before it's made into the hat.

Good Luck!!


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## 34Ford (Mar 19, 2010)

This is not the best solution, but if you you need to get these hats done I would compensate in the Hatch with some arch in the opposite direction maybe.

What you have done looks good and its where you want it, so I mean, what the heck, try it.

Are you losing a hat each time you do one, or are you able to remove the stitching?


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## meksyng (Sep 10, 2016)

Would the stabilizer have something to do with the curving?


When the stabilizer is still attached its straight straight straight. As soon as I tear the stabilizer out, its curves upwards.

I do not know the oz I am using (was free with the machine) but what would be the best tear away to use... 
Thinner stabilizer is good for what?
Thick stabilizer is good for?

We are embroidering fairly thin cotton unstructured low profile hats.


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## R0thom07 (Mar 7, 2014)

meksyng said:


> Would the stabilizer have something to do with the curving?
> 
> 
> When the stabilizer is still attached its straight straight straight. As soon as I tear the stabilizer out, its curves upwards.
> ...




You're not by chance using the Big Accessory Hats with the Velcro snap are you? 

Those suck. The material is very thin and it doesn't hold to backing well. It slides easily. 

Are these the specific hat the client wants? Might be worth spring the extra $.50-$.75 for a thicker hat that will stitch out better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chrisstitches (Sep 19, 2007)

I'm voting for it being too high on the cap, you're working with compound curves on caps. Unless you compensate with a arch in the digitizing you're going to get that curve. Personally I'd bump up the density a touch and reduce the pull comp, make it look 100% better but that's my opinion.


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## oc2dHK (Apr 16, 2014)

Personally I would NEVER try to embroider a non structured hat. I never had any luck with them, If a customer asks for one I direct them away and tell them why I will not embroider that type of hat. Good luck.


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## Chris109 (Aug 3, 2015)

Although I am not really understanding what you're problem is, I do agree with chrisstitches. This design really needs to be played with. Pull comp is way off which is the reason why the letters are not uniform. If you want to stay with that type of font, see if your program has something called 'small block 1' or 'small block 2'. They have a built in pull compensation which should take care of the disjointed height in the letters. Also, I would move the letters closer together so as not to see the jump stitches.

As for being too high or low on the hat, measure from the brim to an approximate height of the hat and find the center; bw 40-45 mm.

Now that I think about it, I believe that you are not putting the 'teeth' of the cap frame where it should be. It's hard to explain but the 'teeth' should dig in just above the sweat band as far around as the frame will go. If they are off, then the design will be off when you take the hat off the frame. I hope I explained this correctly. You can also try youtube for videos on how to hoop and unstructured cap.


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## oldrnwisr2 (Mar 11, 2013)

If the problems is not your technique, then it may be with the file. If you post the emb file, I will look at it.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

To answer your question about centering on a cap - I don't "center center" on caps. I generally have the design start as close to the brim as possible as long as the quality of the stitching is maintained. Sometimes when there is small text close to the brim its better to move away from the brim to maintain quality. Sometimes when the design isn't very high its better to move it slightly away from the brim so the placement looks better. 

I think most customers prefer to have the design closer to the brim. Visually the brim helps anchor the design. The primary rule is the design should look good on the hat (placement and stitching quality is good). The fact that you're having problems embroidering in the curved part of the hat leads me to think that the design is placed too high on the hat. Use hat backing (stiffer than shirt backing), make sure the frame teeth are secure at the "brim" seam. Don't run above 600. Pull cap sides down and clip sides. If you think the problem may be the hat style, run the design on another style to see if that's true. Its a simple design. It should run well but some hat styles are difficult to handle.


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