# OpenTshirts and Licensing?



## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

OpenTshirts.org and licensing..

see the beta here www.opentshirts.org/beta 

At this point we are pretty much ready from a software stand point to release the system. 

However I fear there will be a few more weeks of delay. I am very concerned about licensing and getting a correct license for the system. 

I want the system to be open source and free but I also want to protect the investment I have made in developing the system. And so I am pulling my hair out researching licensing and talking to lawyers.

One of the aspects of this project is that the t-shirt market is not as big and the general market. If do very well we might expect to see our system installed 10 or 20K websites over the next year or two. Where as other open source systems typically have markets that have users in the millions we are limited to the thousands.

I am trying to understand or mix the licensing so that the system is free open source but yet we have enough control over it keep it funded and growing through AdvancedArtist.

One of the things I am thinking about doing is setting up the license so it is free open source but if a 3rd party develops modules or art for the system or offers services they must sell those through the opentshirts site and we take a cut like apple does with apps... This way I believe we could ensure the revenue we need to keep developing in house even if the market is not a huge market like WordPress has.

Perhaps there people here that might know more this then I do and might be able to offer ideas or feed back.

I have to three major concerns.. one, keeping the project funded and two, protecting the year plus of work that gone into the system finally three, keeping it free open source at the same time.

Also I have to admit that in the last month we have been contacted by 3 huge corporations, two of them owned by publically traded companies all wanting to do things with the system. If my licensing strategy is not correct the big dogs could eat me and this project alive.

Any ideas, thoughts or feed back would be appreciated.


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## mimic (Nov 28, 2011)

AdvancedArtist said:


> OpenTshirts.org and licensing..
> 
> see the beta here www.opentshirts.org/beta
> 
> ...



Did you use open source code to build the system? It is a nice GUI, why not just sell it?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mimic said:


> Did you use open source code to build the system? It is a nice GUI, why not just sell it?


I agree - may be worth selling. I had not looked at the solution in months and when I clicked on the link what I saw is a system maybe 10% completed. It is very difficult to bring applications to life without very deep pockets. The Wilcom and Inksofts of the world are way way ahead in this market and really pretty cost effective. From reading some of the post it seems people are looking for a "free" system which will never exist. 

The one advantage it can bring to the market is niche market solutions specific to ones needs.


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

I am completely sold on the free open source so selling it is out of the question. My concern is setting up the correct free open source licensing which is rather confusing. And to be honest the more I talk to the lawyers the more confused I get. It all seems pretty straight forward but is actually rather complex when it comes down to drafting the licensing agreements.


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

Tom, it's one thing having the licensing in place but it's going to be a nightmare enforcing it. Once offshore coders get their hands on it there is no way you will be able to police what they do with it. Also, you need deep pockets to fight in court and if the user doesn't have any money (most likely) then whats the point going after them? In some countries they will be untouchable.

I wish you the best of luck and we are going to work with you on developing some modules.


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

Tom, understand you want to do the opensource, which is great. But, you could also just charge a small fee that would probably help with the license. You could charge say $10.00.


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

My main concern is to keep the resources required to keep development going if the project does not have a allot of users.

Word Press and Joomla have millions of users this system will have 10s of 1000s if we do we very well. But that is part of the risk involved. Especially looking at the size of the market. 

Thanks for the replies I am more or less just thinking outloud here with friends in the industry.


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## newinkology (Sep 8, 2011)

I am very excited to be able to use this, it looks amazing.


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## geniussuineg (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks for all your efforts Tom. I currently buy a lot of your products. Keep doing what you are doing.


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## jmatson (Nov 11, 2011)

I love your site. What i would do keep it open source but have a open source that is limited. and offer another version that has more features that cost money. I use allot of software that is like that. you will get people that are fine with the limited support but you will also get people that don't know how to run a site or install a site and would pay for other services or more features.


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## stevem98 (Mar 2, 2006)

I clicked the link and it loads to 100% then nothing..?

I know these design programs require a tremendous amount of work to make, we have one as well, but I am not sure why you would want to give it away for free, charge people $25.00 a month or something. the t-shirt printing industry is so competative especially online that if people can't afford to pay at least something for this software then they are in trouble to beginwith. I myself would not feel right using software this advanced completely free of charge.


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## scg (Aug 11, 2009)

Before I turned my artsy side to tshirts I was involved in alot of the open source projects in that day(mostly commerce and web design related).

Oscommerce is a great example.
Open source code yet you can find tons of sites trying to sell you a ready cart. Granted if you do not want to buy addons or install them then I suppose that is okay.
Their site is still going strong because there are too many people starting on a dime or in my case I refuse to pay a 3rd party for open source based software/scripts(it is not theirs to sell).

I found it did not matter if the code was running good or full of bugs if somebody could make a dime they were going to try. You should definitely sell addons and once the project is stable you should sell a version with all those addons installed for those who do not want to mess with it.

Open source is a continual effort, ever changing and improving that is what makes it great.
I cannot wait to get code and start playing!


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## islk (Mar 28, 2011)

AdvancedArtist said:


> OpenTshirts.org and licensing..
> 
> 
> I want the system to be open source and free but I also want to protect the investment I have made in developing the system. And so I am pulling my hair out researching licensing and talking to lawyers.
> ...



Hi AA,

I can't help you with the wording of your user license, but I would suggest one thing. Like other companies who started off with an open source product (such as Magento and Zimbra), you could:


Configure the system in modules so that other companies may create addons, and then in your licensing agreement, ensure that they can only sell their product either through your site, or in some other way that would ensure you get your percentage of the sale (as you indicated you wanted)
Charge individuals for support (your product may be open source, but your time isn't)
Create a developers site where people from all over the world can join in order to talk about and create improvements to the system. You won't make any money from them just joining, but if someone comes up with a good idea, develops it, and just wants to sell it (without having to setup their own company), you could have payment accounts for them setup within your e-commerce software so that when their module is sold, they get their money (probably through PayPal), and you get your cut. Perhaps in the licensing agreement, you can stipulate a time frame for when that new module will become an automatic inclusion into the software. Some might say that this will suck, because now that module will no longer be sold separately (meaning the developer will no longer receive payment for it), but it will also be an incentive for that developer to create more modules for the system.
Finally, sell the modules you create. In the users forum you create, people will definitely tell you what they want added or changed. After a certain amount of time and updates, you should be able to come out with versions that you can charge for (and still have the open source version)
These are just a few ideas for you to be able to make some money, while still supporting the open source methodology. Of course, you will have a hard time protecting your product from those who will take it and create their own product from it, but you should still have it written in your agreement. Also, get the design of the software and the web application copy-written. 

I hope some of this will help. 

Tomas


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