# Discharge Tee Printing?



## Elevate(r)

Can someone tell me a bit about this? I'm researching it as an option for getting some tees printed.

Pricing verses screen printing on tees?
Printers that do this in So Cal (san diego)?

Any info would be great.

Thanks!


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## triplej

Elevate(r) said:


> Can someone tell me a bit about this? I'm researching it as an option for getting some tees printed.
> 
> Pricing verses screen printing on tees?
> Printers that do this in So Cal (san diego)?
> 
> Any info would be great.
> 
> Thanks!


Discharge is the process of chemically removing the pigment in the T-shirt and then printing on the raw material that is left with regular screen printing ink. It basically removes the need for an under print. It's a little pricey and when we experimented with it the shirt material that had the chemicals put on it wore out much quicker than the rest of the garment. If you don't have a "huge" under print area stick with the under print.


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## tuan

Is discharge printing only for light ink over dark shirts or also for dark ink over light shirts?


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## Jasonda

tuan said:


> Is discharge printing only for light ink over dark shirts or also for dark ink over light shirts?


It basically bleaches the dye out of the shirt.. so removing the dark ink from a shirt. You can either leave it that way (if you want a light pattern on a dark shirt) or print more colors on top with regular ink.


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## Fluid

You can add pigment to the discharge base. Essentially by adding the pigment the discharge will remove the dye in the shirt replcaing with the color of the pigment you added to the discharge base.

The colors will not be majorly vibrant as the raw color of cotton is natural. If you add yellow pigment to the discharge and print on a black shirt the color will be yellow with a greenish hue to it. I just printed samples to give to all my contract client and employees to use as a selling tool. Its a smiley face that we printed side by side. One had pigment added and one did not.

You can add dark ink pigments and print on lighter colors to get the no feel print. Discharge printing is more expensive than regular plasticol printing. The base and activator are real expensive. About $200 per gallon compared to about $35 for a gal of regular ink.


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## puredevotion

Where is a good place to supplies for discharge printing?

What kind of pigment do you use?


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## corradomatt

Fluid said:


> The colors will not be majorly vibrant as the raw color of cotton is natural. If you add yellow pigment to the discharge and print on a black shirt the color will be yellow with a greenish hue to it.


Actually it depends on the brand of discharge you use. I have many customers printing very bright and vibrant colors (reds, yellows, blues, ect.) on black and other dark shirts. The fabric definitely plays a major roll in determining how well the garment will discharge. For example, American Apparel brand usually discharges much better than a Gildan.



Fluid said:


> You can add dark ink pigments and print on lighter colors to get the no feel print.


For light colors, non-discharge water based inks work best.



Fluid said:


> Discharge printing is more expensive than regular plasticol printing. The base and activator are real expensive. About $200 per gallon compared to about $35 for a gal of regular ink.


This also depends on the brand of ink. Matsui International has developed an exceptional discharge base that is not very expensive. You can get the base for about $35 a gallon and the agent is about $25 a quart. A quart of the agent (the discharge activator) works for about 3 gallons. So, your final price (before you add color pigment) is roughly $43 a gallon. Plus, it's water based ink...so you don't need any chemicals to clean the screens.


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## 4oclockteetime

Hey,

Thanks for the info regarding the Matsui products. I have been really intrigued by the option of having some plastisol tees and some discharge tees in my inventory. I was just looking at a store that I am going to send some of my tees to and some of the shirts they have on sale on the website are single color discharge prints. They were selling them for $45.00 each which is cool of course... Some of my designs would work well with this style.

I was told however, that you can't use the discharge process on screens with a higher mesh count that 125/160 at best... Is this true?


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## neato

4oclockteetime said:


> I was told however, that you can't use the discharge process on screens with a higher mesh count that 125/160 at best... Is this true?


That sounds about right. I use 158 with the Matsui discharge. I wouldn't go any higher than that.


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## 4oclockteetime

neato said:


> That sounds about right. I use 158 with the Matsui discharge. I wouldn't go any higher than that.


Excellent, thank you for that. Most of my designs tend to be detail heavy with lots of fine lines so my screens are usually 160 or 180 mesh and rarely anything less. I can design for a slightly lower mesh count. 

Thanks again!


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## brent

I have done matsui discharge prints through 196 mesh with good results. 
I've been experimenting with discharge a lot. Gildan discharges well with the matsui discharge mostly. I've had good results with olive, black, brown and navy blue. Purple didn't work well at all.
American apparel 2001 works pretty well with black, slate, and olive. Mint and baby blue don't discharge well.
Black Jerzees 363 doesn't discharge very well, results in more of a brown than off-white.
Hope this info helps.


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## mx12brad

Matsui products we have ran through alot of 260 mesh's, now the discharge you will have to run a 136-156 mesh, unless you are doing towels 125mesh should saturate it enough to get all the fibers!


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## mx12brad

i got ours through advanced screen technologies, in az.


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## Sheepsalt

Hey, I have a question about this process... someone said to print plastisol over the discharged area, and someone else said you can print water-based ink in the discharge area, and then someone said you mix the pigment into the discharge base. I'm sure all 3 are workable, BUT, do you have to cure the discharged area before you can print the colors on top??? Or can you screen-print the discharge base, then put color on top of that, then cure?

I need to do some soft-hand prints, and some are on dark shirts, so please don't be afraid to offer too much information. So far everything I've done is plastisol.

Thanks!

~Brian


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## mx12brad

You can print water-based ink in the discharge area? YES and then someone said you mix the pigment into the discharge base? CORRECT, YOU CAN. Some people do cure the discharged area before you can print the colors on top, but you can print the discharge base, then put colors on top of that weither it be water base or plastisol, then then send it down the dryer. At the long beach show the had the best of both worlds all on one shirt with high gloss gel as well.


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## Unik Ink

What about DSPCH-9070 ADDITIVE UNION INK PLASTICHARGE. I just ordered some of this to try. Has anyone used this before? Results? It wasn't very expensive.


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## AGONYART

Im Actually Doin A Very Intense Shirt That Has Heat Press Using Foils,screen Printing Some Plastisolink,and Also Discharge Ink Def Not In That Order But A Very Intense Shirt And Thank You For Helping Me Out With The Mesh Count For The Discharge I Tried Running Discharge Threw A 200 And Something Mesh Count............................not Happinin... It Basically Clogged Up The Mesh Completly..and I Was Kinda Lost On Why..and Another Thing I Know I Use 8% Of The Discharge Agent But Is It That Serious?....meaning If Go Over Orunde That Will It Definatly Change My Print Thatnks Again Guys You Cover Everything!!


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## grafikal

I did a discharge print with out buying any of those products like discharge base or agent. Heres how you do it.
Buy a Clorox bleach pen. Squeeze it out on the screen. Do like any other print and you got ... Discharge softhand effect!
The Clorox is thick enough not to run and spread and gives the same discharge effect. Try it and see.


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## corradomatt

grafikal said:


> I did a discharge print with out buying any of those products like discharge base or agent. Heres how you do it.
> Buy a Clorox bleach pen. Squeeze it out on the screen. Do like any other print and you got ... Discharge softhand effect!
> The Clorox is thick enough not to run and spread and gives the same discharge effect. Try it and see.


Huh, that's interesting. Almost a do-it-yerself discharge print. VERY CREATIVE! I like it!


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## brent

Have you washed the bleached shirts yet, Grafikal? My concern with bleach printing would be damage to the garment, but if they hold up, more power to you. I'm going to stick with Matsui discharge myself...


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## grafikal

Don't get me wrong I think you should use discharge inks but that's just a cheap way of doing it and trust me it works and pretty good too. I washed the sample shirt and it's still good.


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## frank suttle

So if you're printing discharge & then colours, you can keep the shirt on the platten & keep 
printing? No need to remove the shirt & put thru oven or anything?


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## brent

frank,
removing the shirt and trying to put it back on the platen would be a nightmare to get it in the right spot for the next color. You keep it on there.
I print wet-on-wet when doing multiple discharge colors. Makes it go real fast.
I have only done discharge as an underbase a couple times, not sure if you need to flash the underbase before doing the spot colors, and not sure if you have to flash between multiple spot colors.


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## Kapedano

What are some places where I could do this? I am showing a bit interest over it. 

Also, is it cheap compared to digital print? 

​


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## brent

I think screen printing is cheaper than DTG/digital in general. Some printers, including myself, charge a premium for discharge. It can be more of a PITA and the ink doesn't have a long shelf life after mixing, so it can be wasteful if you mix too much. 

You could find someone here on the forums that does discharge if you mean you want to get some printing done with it. If you want to try printing it yourself, I recommend you call up the guys at Screen Printing Equipment, Supplies, Service & Support - Westix Online and ask for a sample of Matsui DPSP discharge. That's how I got into it. I had been interested in it for a while but thought it would be too nasty to print, but tried it and loved it, and it's not that rough to print. I just keep the back door open if I'm doing more than just a little bit of printing, and run the exhaust of my oven outside.

Discharge rocks.


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## LitPrinter

It is better to add a little bit of white pigment into discharge base before adding other pigments for achieving brighter, more vibrant colors, because white pigment gives stabilitiy to color. Especilally when printing on non bleached dyed t-shirts.


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## sicSRT8

Curious... Is this a reverse pull of discharge pulling the pigment out of the shirt and then applying a specific amount of RC Ink to it to add the black tones? How is this type or work made... Im guessing 3 different ink tones on a dark shirt or is this done on a grey shirt??? 

Kari Barba Medusa [A597] - $78.00 : Affliction Clothing, Official Online Store


Trying to figure out this process as im positive its discharge


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## corradomatt

That's a tough one. Without actually seeing the shirt it's hard to say how they printed it. I would guess that it would be WAY easier to print black ink on a grey shirt.....but I'm not totally sure.


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## Sheepsalt

That shirt was most likely grey or even white when it started - note the white thread in the hem stitch.

There's a good chance it's printed with dye-sub, too. I notice their site doesn't say if it's 100% cotton or a blend - if it's a 50/50 blend it was probably done with dye-sub. If it's 100% cotton it was probably a white shirt belt screen printed with water-base inks.


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## Sheepsalt

Actually, look closer at the stitches in the bottom hem... the grey does not affect the threads in the stitch, but the black covers them, sooooo, my guess is that the grey shades were either printed with dye-sub process & the thread is cotton so it didn't capture the dyes, then the black was screen-printed over the finished shirt with water-based ink. Or, the fabric was printed with the grey pattern before the shirt was assembled, then the black was screen-printed over the assembled shirt.


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## emvsilkscreen

you can mixe the pigment with the discharge base, there is no need to put an under base of discharge underneath, normally you wont get the same brightness out of discharge, as out of plastisol. It all depends on what type of design you are trying to get done. I just did some aflection style clothing line with discharge
the colors where white tex charge, witch is discharge with white pigment on it. Any question contact me.


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## LitPrinter

It is possible to obtain bright, true colors if fabric prepared right. I attached few printed samples on right prepared fabric. All colors were made and printed with discharge.


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## brent

Lit-
Those are using discharge underbases, right? With normal inks on top? If it's all pigmented discharge then you are incredible!


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## LitPrinter

All colors were made with discharge (no plascharge and plastisol on top). Difference between thoose two images are that motocycle were printed with discharge underbase under higlight white and overprinted with discharge white on top. Girls face were printed without any underbases, all wet on wet.


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## brent

How do you pigment the discharge colors so well? It's difficult for me.


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## LitPrinter

It is not so difficult that seems. I just adding about 3 - 5% of white pigment into light, medium colors and then adding all other pigments (depend from color ). Ready made paste almost always are diferent maching to pantone, so it is better to do trial print, dry it and then correct paste if necessary.


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## staned

what type of separations are these prints, index? has anyone done process this way?


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## LitPrinter

These was made with simulated process.


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## emvsilkscreen

to me index seperations is the way to go, you get a much better and brighter look to the colors.


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## LitPrinter

It is not important the way you do separations, you just obtain more realistic print in different separation ways, but you will never get bright colors if fabric are not prepared right.


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## NESBOW

just a question about this discharging, does anyone know if this affects the fabric in a negative way. that is giving it a shorter life because of the chemicals used?


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## BEatMaKeR

Wow! Look at the details on the football leather and straps shading. That is impressive!

Now I know these are not discharge, right? Those are straight heavy hand plastisol, right? You can't get that kind of detail from discharge can you?

By the way... did you do those seps yourself? Very nice!

PM me. I'm looking for a good printer. see: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/tf-classifieds/t56006.html


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## hnmiller

Is there a way to print watercolor artwork after the discharge method (onto colored Ts)? So far I have only found block colors.


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## corradomatt

NESBOW said:


> just a question about this discharging, does anyone know if this affects the fabric in a negative way. that is giving it a shorter life because of the chemicals used?


I don't believe that discharge inks negatively effect the material they are printed on.

Discharge ink does not destroy or remove the dye from the garment nor does it bleach the fabric. Instead, discharge inks simply prevent the dye in the fabric from reflecting the color that we see. The dye of the shirt is still present in the garment. Discharge ink just changes the way that the dye looks to the human eye.


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## corradomatt

hnmiller said:


> Is there a way to print watercolor artwork after the discharge method (onto colored Ts)? So far I have only found block colors.


What do you mean by watercolor artwork? Like a blend of colors? Water based inks are often printed over a discharge underbase. Matsui's discharge ink is a water based discharge. You can actually print discharge colors and if the artwork is done correctly, you will get a blend of colors depending on the design.

I don't know if that helps. Maybe you could explain a little more and/or upload some pictures so we can see what you are talking about.


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## hnmiller

Well, the artwork that I want on the T is done using watercolors. And I want the t-shirt color to work well with the particular design, meaning sometimes darker colors. I've just found something called halftone or CMYK, I'm still not sure if this is what I need, or even if what I need is out there. I am in NC and the only place i've found is in Washington... Yikes for shipping!
thanks!


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## corradomatt

hnmiller said:


> Well, the artwork that I want on the T is done using watercolors. And I want the t-shirt color to work well with the particular design, meaning sometimes darker colors. I've just found something called halftone or CMYK, I'm still not sure if this is what I need, or even if what I need is out there. I am in NC and the only place i've found is in Washington... Yikes for shipping!
> thanks!


I assume you are talking about Silk Screening Supplies .com, screen printing equipment, silk screen printing kits for the supplier and Matsui water based inks. There are other suppliers of these inks in other parts of the country. I know that there is 1 in Florida but I don't know what they stock. We sell these inks from San Diego and have customers located all over the country. Check with Matsui's website for a distributor closer to you.... Matsui-Color: innovators of color changing paint, specialty inks for screen printing. If you just need more info about the product, we are the authorities on these inks. We are happy to help with no obligation to buy anything. We're a company of screen printers (not sales people).


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## Tj Ryonet Tech

Silkscreeningsupplies also ships out the middle of the country (Arkansas) for the east coast customers to help reduce shipping costs.


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## Rob

emvsilkscreen said:


> to me index seperations is the way to go, you get a much better and brighter look to the colors.


 I have to say this. Well done, You have me inspired to try discharge now!


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## scott_pxp

Our company is doing a lot of discharge waterbase printing, but we seem to have 
Inconsistencies with the brand of garment. Someone mentioned American Apparel as working well. I definitely agree the top three we have had success with are Alstyle, American Apparel, and Tultex. However certain colors do not discharge well. For instance red,royal blue, and kelly green seem to be the worst so far. I'm curious to know if anyone else has run into this problem. I'm also curious to know what others think the best brands are and if there is a list of colors to stay away from. Just an FYI the worst brand so far has been Hanes. We have had issues with them redying shirts. This sucks because there is no way to tell until we actually print on the shirts.

Scott
PXP


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## tuan

scott_pxp said:


> Our company is doing a lot of discharge waterbase printing, but we seem to have
> Inconsistencies with the brand of garment. Someone mentioned American Apparel as working well. I definitely agree the top three we have had success with are Alstyle, American Apparel, and Tultex. However certain colors do not discharge well. For instance red,royal blue, and kelly green seem to be the worst so far. I'm curious to know if anyone else has run into this problem. I'm also curious to know what others think the best brands are and if there is a list of colors to stay away from. Just an FYI the worst brand so far has been Hanes. We have had issues with them redying shirts. This sucks because there is no way to tell until we actually print on the shirts.
> 
> Scott
> PXP


Hi scott_pxp,
I have never heard of Tultex. Can you tell me what the quality of Tultex 4.5 oz basic tee (0202TC) is like compared to American Apparel 2001 tee? Also is their pricing comparable to AA or cheaper?


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## studog79

I thought TULTEX was TSC Apparel Brand. I hate buying anything from TSC Apparel. They now add a freight charge of 3% if you order by credit card.


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## scott_pxp

It is a TSC Apparel. Please don't get my post confused. I'm not plugging TSC. We just have had a good response to the shirt when discharging. Have them set you up on terms to avoid 3% charge. Even with a 3% charge I believe it's still cheaper then American Apparel. If anyone has some other good brands please let me know. We just ran some royal tultex with a discharge today and they did not react, so like I said certain colors seem to be more reactive to the dye.


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## staned

anvil organic works well. stan


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## Adoratis

LitPrinter said:


> All colors were made with discharge (no plascharge and plastisol on top). Difference between thoose two images are that motocycle were printed with discharge underbase under higlight white and overprinted with discharge white on top. Girls face were printed without any underbases, all wet on wet.


Hi m8!
dscharge inks wont mix when you printing them wet on wet???
Thanks


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## Adoratis

LitPrinter said:


> It is not important the way you do separations, you just obtain more realistic print in different separation ways, but you will never get bright colors if fabric are not prepared right.


How do you prepare the fabric? Wish we had this supliers in romania that can explain all this thinks. The ones that we have dont know what they are seling


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## LitPrinter

No, they do not mixing between. "Prepared right" I mean that fabric bleached before dyeing and dyed with reactive dyestufss (Remazol type dyestufss).


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## Adoratis

Will it work with jeans fabric? If i print and then they send it for feather stone washing, or just washing, image wont come out?
Thanks allot!!!


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## LitPrinter

For denim (jeans) printing it is better to use special formulated denim discharge, because usual discharge pastes are suitable for knitwear.


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## drummerstar

tuan said:


> Hi scott_pxp,
> I have never heard of Tultex. Can you tell me what the quality of Tultex 4.5 oz basic tee (0202TC) is like compared to American Apparel 2001 tee? Also is their pricing comparable to AA or cheaper?


 
tultex tee’s are great! just got some in te other day. it’s great quality for the price. it’s pretty much the same as AA. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE PRICE! yes AA has more color choices but over all it’s not that big of a difference. for a fashion fit it’s a great alternative to AA if you don’t want to pay sooo much for blanks. you can only purchase tultex wholesale through tscapparel.com. it’s easy to get an account though. 
again i have no problems with tultex. they have enough color choices to work with, it’s ringspun cotton which makes it’s very soft, they have matching ladies tee’s(colors), sizes are great (xs-2x for ladies/s-3x for men), and the price can’t be matched. what it comes down to is that there are certain people who have an alliance/loyalty with the AA brand which is cool. in my opinion, if you want to start your line with a great shirt but with a small budget, tultex is great shirt to go with.


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## cctsandwich1

mx12brad said:


> You can print water-based ink in the discharge area? YES and then someone said you mix the pigment into the discharge base? CORRECT, YOU CAN. Some people do cure the discharged area before you can print the colors on top, but you can print the discharge base, then put colors on top of that weither it be water base or plastisol, then then send it down the dryer. At the long beach show the had the best of both worlds all on one shirt with high gloss gel as well.[/qu
> 
> Are you limited to 100% cotton if you use the discharge process?


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## brent

Tonya, pretty much. The more polyester in the material, the less brightly it will discharge. You can do some cool stuff by discharging 50/50 blends, like a 50/50 black shirt will discharge as a textured gray, which may be desirable sometimes. I discharge print hoodies and they are rarely 100% cotton, more like 80 or 90% and they still come out well.
Only the cotton discharges.


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## Nietzsche

Trying to get a brighter white out of my matsui-Discharge White. Do I do something as simple as adding more extra white PC to the discharge white?


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## corradomatt

Trying to make Matsui's Discharge White any brighter is tough to do. Some fabrics will discharge brighter than others with the Matsui Discharge White.

Another option is to print a clear discharge underbase and then lay 301W White ink over the top. This will definately be brighter but you have the added step of the underbase and flash. If you do end up wanting to print this way, you should reduce the 301 White with Softener (printgen-c) and/or Wetting Agent (printgen-mg).


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## Nietzsche

Thanks very much for the info. I will give this a try for sure. If it comes to be that the process takes too long, then future customers will either have to pay a bit more or settle for a more a ( not so bright white ). Thanks again


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## Souls

i use Wilflex Plascharge with great success, i love it. i never flash anymore, all wet on wet.


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## corradomatt

I haven't heard that many good things about Plasticharge. But if it's working well for you, that's awesome! You can print wet-on-wet with Matsui's discharge too! That might be the best part about discharge inks.


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## tee shirt rash

hello.
i developed a very severe rash from a tee shirt i have that i believe used discharge printing technique. it is a black tee shirt with a multicolor print. however the inside of the shirt (under the print) appears whitish. can i assume this used discharge printing. (or possibly "resist" printing)

what kind of chemicals are contained in the discharge base?

i contacted the manufacturer of the shirt who stated that they use "a non-phthalate, non-PVC [polyvinyl chloride] screen printing ink on all of their shirts" but they did not describe the actual printing technique.

is it possible i reacted to the discharge base? is it a uniform technique, or are different chemicals used? will i react to all materials like this?

btw: i am not taking any legal action, just curious as i seem so allergic to everything! and maybe manufacturers are interested too in this reaction


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## midwaste

It could be any number of things that would cause a rash, from non-fully cured discharge/ink to starches and other sizings present in the blank. 

What is the fabric content of the shirt?

Does it still happen after the shirt has been washed?


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## brent

Discharge ink can be a skin irritant. Washing a discharge printed shirt before wearing should eliminate this risk.
I've never had any customers complain about a rash or any irritation, but I know it's possible.

Also, Nietzsche, add some of Matsui's Discharge Brite to their Discharge White to give the white a little more brightness. That's what I do, as well as adding the Printgen C to improve printing through high mesh and a nicer laydown in any mesh count.


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## tee shirt rash

thanks for the replys.
it is a black "organic" cotton tee shirt.
the rash recurred several times, and the shirt was washed between wearing. 
i have attached pics of the graphic, the rash, and the inside of the shirt.


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## Spot_Worker

....hmmmm the rash. Find something to block over the screen printing area that doesn't rub you as well. See if you get the rash again. How long does it take to get the rash going? if not to long. Try putting the screen area on your arm to see if it does it too.


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## tee shirt rash

the rash took all day to develop and a week to resolve. 
i am still very curious what type of chemical could have been used to cause this. is it likely some kind of adhesive to secure the ink of the graphic or a solvent to remove the original color of the shirt.

here's the rash at day 4.


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## brent

I have never heard of such a bad reaction. I think you might just have a bizarre allergy to the chemicals within the discharge ink. Have you ever worked with and had a bad reaction to formaldehyde? 

Can you gather information from the shirt printer for us? What specific discharge / process was used would be a great start.


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## tee shirt rash

no, i've never worked with formaldehyde. the one thing i am allergic to is benzoin or benzoic acid. 
i have not gotten any details from the manufacturer, but i will try, and let you know.


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## aldenski

Ive used 230 mesh and had success. It all depends on the design and what you're hoping to get out of the discharge ink. Its a printing tool, not a miracle. As with all toys, you must experiment with it in your shop with your screens on your press.


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## jonbapparel

Hey guys,

this question has probably been asked before but I cant seem to find it. I was having trouble printing white plastisol on a black shirt. I took me a lot of tries along with using some curable reducer and stretch additive. My question is, could I have used discharge? For example, I could have used discharge to bleach out the black, flash, and then print the white plastisol?

This seems like a better alternative to printing all plastisol as I am a big fan of soft feel shirts.


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## Rob.C

jonbapparel said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> this question has probably been asked before but I cant seem to find it. I was having trouble printing white plastisol on a black shirt. I took me a lot of tries along with using some curable reducer and stretch additive. My question is, could I have used discharge? For example, I could have used discharge to bleach out the black, flash, and then print the white plastisol?
> 
> This seems like a better alternative to printing all plastisol as I am a big fan of soft feel shirts.


You can do it that way, but the real beauty of printing a discharge base is that you do not have to flash. Do the base then print the plastisol right over it. The discharge process will take place in the dryer even with multiple plastisol colors on top.

You can also mix discharge and plastisol to get nice bright prints without having to do the separate base.

Experiment and see which way works better for you!


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## jonbapparel

Ok guys so here is my plan:

I'm going to use discharge first to get the fibers ready (Anvil 779) and without drying, print the white plastisol over and then flash. What do you think?

What would be the best discharge for this? I also need an activator right? BTW, im using regular direct on emulsion..

Thanks for the insight!


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## corradomatt

jonbapparel said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> this question has probably been asked before but I cant seem to find it. I was having trouble printing white plastisol on a black shirt. I took me a lot of tries along with using some curable reducer and stretch additive. My question is, could I have used discharge? For example, I could have used discharge to bleach out the black, flash, and then print the white plastisol?
> 
> This seems like a better alternative to printing all plastisol as I am a big fan of soft feel shirts.


Yes, you could achieve a soft hand and bright white print by using discharge ink as your underbase. Here are the steps I would recommend....


Print a clear discharge underbase
flash the underbase so that it is dry to the touch. It doesn't need to fully discharge during flashing because that can take place on the dryer after you print the white.
Print a white plastisol that is reduced slightly with a soft-hand additive.
Cure the white ink and discharge underbase in your conveyor dryer. This might take 2 passes through the dryer to get the discharge ink fully cured. It depends on your setup (ie. chamber length, forced air-flow, heater type)
Always remember that discharge inks only work with 100% cotton fabrics.


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## jonbapparel

Thanks a lot corradomatt, I'll try that and see what happens.


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## jonbapparel

Hey guys, I just purchased Gildan G200 and American Apparel shirts. I also have some Anvil 779 and wanted to know which one will discharge the best, if anyone has had any problems with these. Thanks


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## Rob.C

I have no experience with the Anvil, but black Gildans work very well. We messed around with an American Apparel girls tee in royal blue - it discharged to an orange / rust color. Test thoroughly!


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## corradomatt

Hey guys, I just created a form on our website that I want to try and use to collect information about styles, brands and colors of t-shirts that discharge well.

If we can track the experiences of different screen printers it will help everyone wanting to print with discharge inks. To fill out the form please visit....

Discharge Survey Form | WestixOnline.com


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## jwade

OK Guys, I am just getting ready to start discharging. My question is,, If I have a black tee and I plan on printing 2 colors (white & red) and I am using sericol discharge inks, should I add the discharge to both colors or use the white as an underbase/white print and them print the red without activator?


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## corradomatt

I would suggest printing both as discharge. From what I've heard, sericol discharge is similar to matsui discharge in that you don't want to use the white as an underbase.

Discharge inks tend to be somewhat transparent and the red might be affected by the white underneath. This can make more of a pastel red than you may want.


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## jwade

Another question. This time it is about Sericol Ink. What is the difference in TC 021 white and the TC 311/1 HO White. Does the HO stand for High Opacity?


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## jeff print

You can go as high as 330 ... We print discharge all the time and we use lowest 270 and as high as 330 ..


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## chrbsa

Got somebody experiences with printing discharge on Piquepoloshirts?
I thought for workwear discharge is better, because of the the long life...

Regards


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## snackdaddy185

jeff print said:


> You can go as high as 330 ... We print discharge all the time and we use lowest 270 and as high as 330 ..


Do you need any additives when printing through such a high mesh? I've only used a 156 when printing discharge, but now I have job that has a lot of fine halftones and I want to use a 200 or 230 mesh. Any tips? Thanks.


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> Do you need any additives when printing through such a high mesh? I've only used a 156 when printing discharge, but now I have job that has a lot of fine halftones and I want to use a 200 or 230 mesh. Any tips? Thanks.


Yes. There are 2 things to consider when printing discharge through such a high mesh count.


If you are using water based discharge inks you need to use an additive to "retard' the ink and keep it from drying quickly (especially in high heat and/or high humidity)
The particles of discharge agent can get clogged in the screen. Make sure that you don't use too much agent. It's usually better to use a little less than recommended than too much. I usually recommend that you allow the agent time to dissolve into the ink...maybe 20-30 minutes on average.
For matsui discharge inks I definitely recommend using Wetting Agent (Printgen MG) and Softener (Pringen C) if you are going to print through high mesh counts. Use the additives at the following ratios:

*Discharge Whites*


Softener - 10%
Wetting Agent - 5%
*Discharge Clear (and with pigment added)*


Softener - 5%
Wetting Agent - 3%


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## topmade

I was told by my screen print guys they cant do discharge for yellow, purple and browns? 

Any truth to this or is time to look for someone else?


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## TshirtGuru

topmade said:


> I was told by my screen print guys they cant do discharge for yellow, purple and browns?
> 
> Any truth to this or is time to look for someone else?


Yes, some colors or shall I say some garments in general cannot be discharged. For instance, American apparel black can be discharged, but sometimes Gildan black will not discharge well. Yellows blues purples and browns don't discharge well, some brands discharge better then others. But it's a trial and error thing.


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## snackdaddy185

Thanks for the great info Matt. Also I was wondering if its normal for a slight change in color after the first wash? I recently printed discharge without pigments, the color was a little darker after the wash but there was no hand. Is it under cured?


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> Thanks for the great info Matt. Also I was wondering if its normal for a slight change in color after the first wash? I recently printed discharge without pigments, the color was a little darker after the wash but there was no hand. Is it under cured?


Yes, a slight color change is normal.

I wouldn't say that the ink was undercured. It sounds like the garment 'bled' a little and some of the dye migrated to the discharged print area causing it to get a little darker. (was the shirt black?)

When it comes to colored discharge, most of the time that you see a color change, it gets a little lighter. In rare circumstances, the colors brighten considerably. For these situations, you can use a product like Matsui's Fixer N to ensure color fastness.


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## snackdaddy185

That's sounds like that is what happened. The shirt was black. Before the wash the print was a cream color and after the wash it looked like it it was more gray color.


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> That's sounds like that is what happened. The shirt was black. Before the wash the print was a cream color and after the wash it looked like it it was more gray color.


This isn't a very good solution, but maybe the only option is to wash the garments before you discharge them. This would get any of the excess dye before it can effect your print.

The only other option I can think of (besides switching shirt brands) would be to try Matsui's Bright Discharge Base. I don't know that it will solve the problem but you never know.


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## snackdaddy185

I used black Alstyle 1301 with matsui's bright discharge base with about 7 percent activator (would more or less make a difference?). Thanks


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## corradomatt

I don't think it would make a difference for the issue you are running into unfortunately.


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## ecurbmuhtnef

Hi There
I have recently joined t-shirt forums and its been a blessing so far.
I have had amazing results with simulated and index prints onto dark using discharge white.
all 8 col wet on wet with no flash,not even the underbase.
Problem is i can print more than 150-200 at a time without pin holes appearing all over the place.
I have used chroma set hardner as well as exposing twise with no help
Emulsion we use is chromaline cptex.

Any help out there????


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> Do you need any additives when printing through such a high mesh? I've only used a 156 when printing discharge, but now I have job that has a lot of fine halftones and I want to use a 200 or 230 mesh. Any tips? Thanks.


I would definitly use some additives with discharge inks anytime you are screen printing through higher mesh counts. If you are using Matsui discharge products I recommend the following products....

When printing with Discharge Clear and pigment....


Wetting Agent (Printgen MG) - 3%
Softener (Printgen C) - 5%
When printing with Discharge White....


Wetting Agent (Printgen MG) - 3%
Softener (Printgen C) - 10%
Another tip I have is that it's usually a good idea to give the discharge agent some time to dissolve into the ink before you begin printing. Don't use too much agent and give it about 10-30 minutes to fully dissolve.

I've seen some crazy discharge prints through high mesh with halftones and color blending, so it's definitely possible.


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## snackdaddy185

Here's a pic of what's happening. The top shirt is before the wash and the shirt on the bottom is after the first wash. Is this because the color of the shirt bled?


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> Here's a pic of what's happening. The top shirt is before the wash and the shirt on the bottom is after the first wash. Is this because the color of the shirt bled?


Huh, that's strange. It looks fine to me. It also looks like you are using discharge white ink for this design.

If you are using discharge white, then yes, it has been known to 'yellow' or dull slightly after washing.

Looking at the edges of the bottom image, it looks like the ink is cracking slightly and showing the fabric below. This is caused by the ink being under cured. How are you drying the ink?


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## snackdaddy185

I used the regular mattsui bright disharge with no pigments. I did notice that I may not of gotten enough ink penetration on some of the shirts. I did use a heat press to cure this shirt (I know its not recommended but I read in a book that it could be done). I used light pressure at 375 deg for 45 seconds opened up the heat press to let the moisture escape then repeated the process 2 more times.


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> I used the regular mattsui bright disharge with no pigments. I did notice that I may not of gotten enough ink penetration on some of the shirts. I did use a heat press to cure this shirt (I know its not recommended but I read in a book that it could be done). I used light pressure at 375 deg for 45 seconds opened up the heat press to let the moisture escape then repeated the process 2 more times.


When you refer to 'not enough penetration' do you mean that the garments are not discharging all the way? Always remember that some dyes are not dischargable and that you always want to use 100% cotton.


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## snackdaddy185

How much off contact do you need when printing discharge? On my print I actually had the screen laying on top of the shirt. Should I have raised it a little?


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> Do you need any additives when printing through such a high mesh? I've only used a 156 when printing discharge, but now I have job that has a lot of fine halftones and I want to use a 200 or 230 mesh. Any tips? Thanks.


Yes. There are 2 things to consider when printing discharge through such a high mesh count.


If you are using water based discharge inks you need to use an additive to "retard' the ink and keep it from drying quickly (especially in high heat and/or high humidity)
The particles of discharge agent can get clogged in the screen. Make sure that you don't use too much agent. It's usually better to use a little less than recommended than too much. I usually recommend that you allow the agent time to dissolve into the ink...maybe 20-30 minutes on average.
For matsui discharge inks I definitely recommend using Wetting Agent (Printgen MG) and Softener (Pringen C) if you are going to print through high mesh counts. Use the additives at the following ratios:

*Discharge Whites*


Softener - 10%
Wetting Agent - 5%
*Discharge Clear (and with pigment added)*


Softener - 5%
Wetting Agent - 3%


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## pukingdeserthobo

how much off contact do you use for discharge ?


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## corradomatt

You want to use a similar off-contact to plastisol inks. Around 1/8th to 1/4 inch.


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## snackdaddy185

Thanks for all the great info matt. I also had another question about printing discharge with pigments using matsui pc color matching software. For instance, when I enter the pantone color I want to mix it tells me I need a certain amount of clear base and a certain amount of the matte base. Let say it asks for 185 grams of 301 clear base and 10 grams of 301 matte base (then the pigments), if I am using the Matsui Bright discharge base do I use 195 grams of the base? It seems alot of times my color matching is way off when printing discharge. Thanks


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> ...It seems alot of times my color matching is way off when printing discharge. Thanks


Color matching with discharge inks is really hard to do....in fact, if you called Matsui they would tell you it is impossible. Their formulas aren't perfect either (probably about 80% there right now and they are still working on them).

It's always a good idea to check for updated versions of their software from time to time. You can download the Matsui Color Matching Software Here. Check the "last updated" date and version number on this page against your software.

Things get even trickier with the bright discharge base. This can throw colors WAY off. I recommend only using the bright on lighter and brighter colors. If you notice that the formula is calling for black pigment then you would want to use the standard discharge clear instead.

Hopefully that helps a bit, but as always - test, test, test some more and even if you think your ok to start production - test 1 more time!

Cheers and happy printing!


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## snackdaddy185

Thanks again Matt! That's exactly what's happening. A lot of times when I add the black pigments to the bright discharge base it comes out so dark. Ill try it with the regular discharge base for the darker colors.


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## corradomatt

snackdaddy185 said:


> Thanks again Matt! That's exactly what's happening. A lot of times when I add the black pigments to the bright discharge base it comes out so dark. Ill try it with the regular discharge base for the darker colors.


Whoa! I was thinking your problem was that colors with black pigment were coming out too bright with the bright discharge base.

With your problem, I would try adding less black. Are you using the PC black? It's a little less powerful that the black MK and a bit easier to work with.

If you are using the PC black and the colors are still too dark I would suggest starting with half of what the formula calls for and slowing adding in more until you hit the color you are looking for.....the black can be a bit strong at times.


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## professaurus

Matt, do you know if the Murakami reclaimable hardener is compatible with Ulano EZ film?


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## corradomatt

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is. Most emulsion hardeners share the same chemical makeup and will work to harden many types of emulsion and capillary film.

The key is how well the Ulano EZ film will hold up to discharge inks when used with emulsion hardener. I would talk to a Ulano distributor or a Ulano rep.


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## RespecttheCraft

anyone ever tried adding ZFS to white waterbase ink.. maybe mixed with discharge base.. to overcome the fact that some shirt colors dont discharge well and produce a good white?


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## corradomatt

You can always use discharge white to create a bright white print on a dark garment. You could also try mixing discharge white and discharge clear at different percentages to create a bright and soft white on black.

Otherwise, you could print a water based white over a discharge clear underbase. If you do that, I would print a reduced water based white ink over the discharge clear underbase....the result with be an extremely soft and bright white ink most of the time.


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## Linusco

can the discharge ink be cured using a heat press?


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## Alan Buffington

Using a hardener on the film will allow small production runs, but the emulsion/film should be designed for water resistancy. Emulsions are resistant from solvent to waterbase or fall somewhere in between. Aquasol HV, and HVP are designed for waterbase/discharge printing.


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## themountain

We print 90-95% of our brands with discharge. All of The Mountain, Skulbone, Mountain Organic, Mountain Evolution, Manimals, Thomas Kinkade, are printed with discharge and our runs for stock are in the 100-300 dozen range. The main battle for discharge printing is the shirt. That's why we dye everything in-house with a palette of over 1000 colors... themountain dot com to check out what we do...


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## Alan Buffington

Yes Michael, I agree with you on making your own shirt and dyeing. It is one of the best ways to achieve brilliant colors as you control the greige goods color (usually tan, but can be a bright white if you build the shirt yourself) Cut piece engineered prints of the fabric are totally possible with your own shirt making capability. There are many small mills and dye houses who can assist those who want to make their own shirts, but typically your run size does need to meet the minimum dye lot which is around 600 pcs in adult m-XXl depending on fabric weight, and about 1200 pcs for women's and juniors. This is tough territory for the beginner and more suited to a company that has done cut, sew, and dyeing, but the results are great if you put in the homework with a good dye house and cut and sew company.


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## themountain

It's difficult for smaller companies, agreed, but we were once a very small company producing only 20 or so shirts in the early 90's. We bought white pfd's and dyed in-house in 5 gallon buckets. Now we print over 5,000,000 discharge shirts per year...


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## Alan Buffington

To me discharge is one of the hardest print types to master, yet once you do you never want to print any other way again. Here's a link to an article on combining puff foil techniques with discharge that you may like: [media]http://www.murakamiscreen.com/documents/3DPufffoils.pdf[/media] Our company pioneered the foil/discharge look for Disney back in the early 80's. Our entire production was based off of this technique. Good Luck.

Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA


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## themountain

Alan Buffington said:


> To me discharge is one of the hardest print types to master, yet once you do you never want to print any other way again. Here's a link to an article on combining puff foil techniques with discharge that you may like: [media]http://www.murakamiscreen.com/documents/3DPufffoils.pdf[/media] Our company pioneered the foil/discharge look for Disney back in the early 80's. Our entire production was based off of this technique. Good Luck.
> 
> Alan Buffington
> Murakami Screen USA


Thanks Alan, we're actually doing some foil work for WM at the moment, I'll pass this along to development.

Agreed on discharge, if you haven't learned all the tricks you are bound to throw the process out the window, but if you are willing to learn and dedicate a serious amount of time to it, it will be your best friend forever.


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## lisazc

Hi,

I am printing t-shirts with the discharge method but once I wash them the color loses a lot of intensity. I am very concerned and I need to fix the problem soo. What may be causing this?


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