# DTG Printing today...are ink costs still an issue? Which brands are worth looking at?



## barkerw (Jun 4, 2009)

Hello,
My family has been in the screen printing industry for a long time and up until now we have always just done standard screen printing on manual and automatic presses. About 2 or 3 years ago we began to take a serious look at DTG printing...not as a primary printing change but just to make ourselves more competitive in the small quantity shirt orders (50 pieces or less). The last we looked, we went to a national screen printing show and Brother was the big name for DTG then. We came very close to buying a couple of their newest models and once we found out about the ink costs, everything kind of came to a screeching halt as it appeared it was just too expensive to stay competitive in pricing. I was just wondering from people that have gone this route in recent times, how is it working out....are the ink costs as outrageous as i remember or have things changed. Can anyone give me a point in the right direction as to what brands are good these days. I know there is much research for me to do but i was hoping to get a general overview of the DTG scene now days. 

Thanks in advance for any insight you can give. It is greatly appreciated from this end.


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## bigfrogplano (Oct 24, 2011)

I've been doing DTG for a few months now, and we run a Brother GT-541 and have had really great results with it. Anajet makes some good machines, too, from what I understand. There's definitely a niche for the DTG work, when it comes to both color options and quantities, as it allows us to do things screen printers either can't or won't do. You're not paying by the color, and can reproduce upwards of 300 dpi images (photos too), so that allows customers to have a lot more options when it comes to what they'd like done. If they need multiple colors, gradients/shadings, or what have you, DTG wins easily. 

The low minimums is huge with customers, too - being able to do a handful of shirts at a time has won over a lot of people for us. When you're going up against screen printing, you'll obviously lose on the mass quantity orders - really anything over 75-100 shirts and it's not worth it to do DTG. But we do plenty of 20-30 quantity orders, with super-quick turnaround (24 hours on most orders!), and that's another thing that customers really dig. Being able to have a bit more of a personal touch when it comes to communicating with what they want/need really helps, too.

Ideally you would want to run a "combo" shop, where you can do both screening and DTG, but that's a bit much for a lot of small businesses. As you're already doing the screen printing, I'd say it's definitely something to look into so you can scoop up all those obnoxious low-run customers  We've basically been targeting those people who screen printers would normally turn away, and word is starting to spread, and we actually get a good amount lot of the large-run work, too, because of the quick turnaround.


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## tkriney (Feb 6, 2007)

The ink cost has increase slightly over the past few years. The best 2 companies are Kornit and Brother. You can not compare the cost of screen printing to DTG.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

:: edited thread TITLE to be more descriptive and moved to a more appropriate section of the forum  ::​


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

While you're waiting for most posts in this thread, here are some previous posts that have some good information when trying to figure out which DTG machine to look into: which dtg related topics at T-Shirt Forums


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Good post.
DTG is not just hardware racing. Software and Chemical (ink) too.
Demand of ink are rising daily. Necessity will create supply is basic of economy. We have been seen so many dtg ink mfgs are popping up. Still many are immature and many are in starting line. I foresee ink price has to be coming down in very near future. I met one guy (You all knows him) in SGIA who mfg DTG (general, not company) said he has been working with chemical company for two years. He said soon~.This is sign of price will drop soon. There is few inks for 1/2 price now than DuPont ink already and works decent. This ink do not need to flush DuPont ink before feed. Few ink sellers are selling this without saying who made it. Using self brand name.
This are one of the reason New Brother machine will adjust ink price in big deal. I agree 100%. Ink price has to be come down before any other price should. 97% of water is near $250-300/liter is stomach sickness. I will buy single mold 30yrs scotch if I do not need ink. 
About $70-$100/liter will be ideal to compete with other printing process. It will come down sooner than we expect. Am I a crazy DuPont fan? Nope and never but no choice for now. I am same as you waiting for choice to serve this industry better,
Cheers! Inks are not on me but beers are.


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## jimprinter (Oct 13, 2011)

Unless I have made an error, the cost of ink is even higher than you suggest!!! I believe the Brother cartridges are 220 ml, and cost about $200.00. That puts the ink cost in the $800.00+ per liter! (800.00 per liter if it was 250 ml each) I hope that I haven't made your stomach sickness worse!


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

allamerican said:


> "....... I will buy single mold 30yrs scotch if I do not need ink. ...


Peter, I'd be careful of that one.


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## bigfrogplano (Oct 24, 2011)

We use 500cc Brother cartridges. $500 a pop. Not cheap. But the GT-541 display does indicate how many cc's of ink is being used per print, so you can see how much cash you're dropping into each shirt. Not that I like being reminded...


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

> We use 500cc Brother cartridges. $500 a pop.


Why are you paying so much? 500cc CMYK carts are $350 NOT $500. Please look into this as you being robbed.


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## Michael73 (Oct 24, 2011)

Hello,

I have been doing some research myself and I am really impressed with the Anajet Sprint and Mpower DTG Printer. Also there is another machine called the Melcojet G2. As for as inks are concern you can go to www.garmentprinterink.com and get the same inks cheaper.


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## bigfrogplano (Oct 24, 2011)

WholesalePrint said:


> Why are you paying so much? 500cc CMYK carts are $350 NOT $500. Please look into this as you being robbed.



Really?! Where in the world can you get 500cc carts for $350??


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

ITNH, DIRECT 2 Shirt, Garstons, ETC... Are you for real? Every dealer besides yours of course. lol


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

bigfrogplano is part of the bigfrog printing franchise. Do they make you buy your ink from the bigfrog head office?


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## abmcdan (Sep 14, 2007)

Wow so Brother white is $700 per liter? That is brutal when you can get good white ink from DTGinks.com for epson machines at $160 per liter.

Angel you must have been putting $3 to $6 in ink on those larger biker prints I had you do. Or does the brother machines use way less ink for the same bright white on an epson machine?


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

Andy thats only for cmyk and yes I agree its alot still but its kinda as you say. "Less ink cause most of the cost comes from the White".. And we do not make much margin and sometimes no margin but we are still here


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## bigfrogplano (Oct 24, 2011)

TPrintDesigner said:


> bigfrogplano is part of the bigfrog printing franchise. Do they make you buy your ink from the bigfrog head office?


You're absolutely right. We have to go through the franchise for our ink. I looked around and you guys are right, $350 is pretty standard for the 500cc carts.


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

I know the owning a franchise has its good and bad.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

This post was not popular thread to start. Now we all hearing unhappy voices here about ink prices are so high. Is it voice to chemical company or to middle man as myself or wholesaler? Everyone needs money to operate their business. Reasonable profit have to respected on any business transaction as same as yourself. Normal profit chain is Mfg makes 100% plus is must on their cost. Middle man make another near 100%. Wholesale make 25-30%. But Inks on DTG market does not looks like formulated on this term. Something to think about here. My thought here is Sam's Club style. Membership and discount rate. Release stress to dtg users. All resellers have average ink consume to each customers. Apply this to like a insurance cost. I think this is great idea. How do you think? As same as you drive your car without worry. You will not worry about big jobs come in and worry about ink cost. Do not have to worry about big guys to compete on cost of supplies. If majority are agree on my idea I will start lay out plans by Friday meeting. Upfront $xxx/year. Unlimited purchase discount. Multi machine different membership cost. If member resells ink all rights will be revoke. I want to hear your voice. It does not have to stop on ink only on all supplies. I am sure many competitors will not like this idea but if AA starts all will follow. This is my style . I did so many first things in printing industry.
Cheers! Beers are on me always. AA believes your success is our success.


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Peter,

While others (competitors) may think this is a bad idea. I think of it more of a CO-OP. Access to the resources of All American. Granted it may not fit into everyones business model but it's a great option for those that will purchase ink, rhinestones, printers etc.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

allamerican said:


> This post was not popular thread to start. Now we all hearing unhappy voices here about ink prices are so high. Is it voice to chemical company or to middle man as myself or wholesaler? Everyone needs money to operate their business. Reasonable profit have to respected on any business transaction as same as yourself. Normal profit chain is Mfg makes 100% plus is must on their cost. Middle man make another near 100%. Wholesale make 25-30%. But Inks on DTG market does not looks like formulated on this term. Something to think about here. My thought here is Sam's Club style. Membership and discount rate. Release stress to dtg users. All resellers have average ink consume to each customers. Apply this to like a insurance cost. I think this is great idea. How do you think? As same as you drive your car without worry. You will not worry about big jobs come in and worry about ink cost. Do not have to worry about big guys to compete on cost of supplies. If majority are agree on my idea I will start lay out plans by Friday meeting. Upfront $xxx/year. Unlimited purchase discount. Multi machine different membership cost. If member resells ink all rights will be revoke. I want to hear your voice. It does not have to stop on ink only on all supplies. I am sure many competitors will not like this idea but if AA starts all will follow. This is my style . I did so many first things in printing industry.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always. AA believes your success is our success.


 
Fabulous idea! As you say the printers success is the manufacturers success, easing the pain of ink cost will get many votes... or perhaps a 2-3 printhead replacement warranty, it would be the first in the industry aswell.. this will give purchasers of the equiptment piece of mind and gaurantee more sales on the equiptment..


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

german13 said:


> Fabulous idea! As you say the printers success is the manufacturers success, easing the pain of ink cost will get many votes... or perhaps a 2-3 printhead replacement warranty, it would be the first in the industry aswell.. this will give purchasers of the equiptment piece of mind and gaurantee more sales on the equiptment..


Hi Jeff!
Long time no see. Where have you been hiding? Without you here is eating boiled egg without salt. lol
Keep throw good ideas. 
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
I used "Your success is our success" was to the NeoFamily only. Now ???? spreading?????


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

stix said:


> Peter,
> 
> While others (competitors) may think this is a bad idea. I think of it more of a CO-OP. Access to the resources of All American. Granted it may not fit into everyones business model but it's a great option for those that will purchase ink, rhinestones, printers etc.


Your English is little too deep to me. 
What is in Street English? or Money Eng?


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

allamerican said:


> Hi Jeff!
> Long time no see. Where have you been hiding? Without you here is eating boiled egg without salt. lol
> Keep throw good ideas.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always.
> I used "Your success is our success" was to the NeoFamily only. Now ???? spreading?????


just been reading..

I cant make any money being here all the time, although i love it.. gota save the pennies so i can get a commercial unit!! Things seem to change fast lately I cant keep up with it all, gota start getting some sleep

Good to see things going well, you never quit!!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

german13 said:


> .. gota save the pennies so i can get a commercial unit!!
> Good to see things going well, you never quit!!


Jeff, you are flagship among all DIY guys. Now you want commercial unit?  I really wished you will do some serious contribution for to who cannot afford commercial units. I have been thinking about low quality printer (A3, A4 size) for them with great price tag but after service will kill reputation and business. I can do it cymkX2 at $3000 plus minus. Probably you could too. Go with limited warranty.
Epson 1900 $250-300 
hardware metal 20lbs($5.50/lbs) $110. 
parts $600 (made in China. many commercial guys are using now too. Not me)
RIP inexpensive one $300-400.
Your profit xxxx.
As same as you said to me "you never quit" I want to say same to you. Keep it up please. Many people can use your knowledge.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## Big Frog (Dec 6, 2006)

Big Frog Plano... we don't charge you $500 per cartridge... check the invoice.


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## Big Frog (Dec 6, 2006)

Even as a franchise, we are bound by the rules and regulations that Brother imposes on all it's distributors... We would never charge more than what is available in public domain.

I promise that our franchise will make a garment decorating business easy, painless, fun, and profitable...


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Well I would think the ink for a franchisee would be cheaper because of the buying power. Anyone can buy a gt 541 from a distributor, hire a consultant for 7k, and use a seasoned commercial real estate which the leasing company pays. I mean but if a person can save money long term on equipment and supplies from the collective buying power.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Chris,

Even without having a retail store front, you should know by now that running a business is much more than just purchasing a piece a equipment and using a commercial real estate agent (which is your expertise) to locate a good location. In retail, there is setting up a business plan, creating a retail store front concept, figuring out where to buy all the necessary items to create a store front (i.e. racks, walls, tables,...), establishing an inventory / sales software program, developing a marketing brand, get employees hired / trained under established HR regulations,... (the list can go and on). I tell people all the time not to under-estimate what it takes to run a business and manage employees. The time associated with this far exceeds the time it takes to make a decorated garment.

It is my understanding that all GT distributors are suppose to sale ink at the same exact price. Does not matter who they are, number of customers they have or anything else. Same price across the board based on the country you are in. Otherwise, the distributor would be violating their distribution agreement.

Mark


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

bigfrogplano said:


> We use 500cc Brother cartridges. $500 a pop. Not cheap. But the GT-541 display does indicate how many cc's of ink is being used per print, so you can see how much cash you're dropping into each shirt. Not that I like being reminded...


How about the cost of ink wastage?


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Mark,

I know Mark exactly what your saying but I can show you of Embroidme franchises that have gone out business. Im all for thw win/win. I think bigfrog has a great business model. But once again there are classes, seminars and consultants that can be used to obtain information needed. Some people need the franchise enviroment. Im pro franchise when I see the value you in it.


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Mark,

I know Mark exactly what your saying but I can show you of Embroidme franchises that have gone out business. Im all for thw win/win. I think bigfrog has a great business model. But once again there are classes, seminars and consultants that can be used to obtain information needed. Some people need the franchise enviroment. Im pro franchise when I see the value you in it.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

The $500 price info about a 500 cc cartridge from Big Frog must be a mistake.

I am NOT a franchisee of Big Frog; I decided not to be one. But a few months ago I ran out of ink in the middle of a project and they sold me a cartridge for $350. They would NEVER rip you off with the $500 cartridge.

In my opinion they are absolutely correct (and very nice) people. I just didn't like their franchise offer. I wanted more freedom, less (fix and variable) monthly expenses. I was able to answer all (or at least most) of the questions myself that they offered to give me "kitchen-ready" for a big pile of money. 

Now I am happy that I am NOT a Big Frog franchisee but it definitely doesn't mean that the Big Frog franchise is wrong or the people are incorrect. Just the opposite!


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

You will find that if people wanted to open a certain business. Go to trades shows and talk to vendors. But when a franchise has a strong brand name you will pay a premium for that. Everyone has heard of McD's but few people know of 5 Guys.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

I agree, but the strong brand name needs time and continous success.


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

I agree.. I always say there are people lined up to take your money but its up to you to protect it.


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