# Under cured or Over cured?



## Bret (Oct 24, 2008)

I printed a run of white plastisol on royal blue shirts and white on balck shirts. When I ran them through the dryer (Vastex Econo Red II) the ink comes out with a rough/sandpaper type feel. If I cure them under the flash dryer or on the heat press they come out with a smooth/shiny vinyl type appearance.

My question is with the dryer: The shirts are reading 375 deg - 450 deg right before coming off the belt under the 2nd chamber (temp gun reading). I adjusted the temp and the speed to get the difference between 375 - 450. The ink is cured (stretch test and wash test) but was wondering why the difference in appearance and feel as compared to the flash and heat press cure?

Could it be the ink is getting "cooked" in the dryer? I have the temp set at 700 deg and about 1.3 minutes in the dryer.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Bret


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Bret said:


> Could it be the ink is getting "cooked" in the dryer?


That is what I think.


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## 13Graphics (Jul 20, 2009)

Could the texture be the screen mesh?

Are there fine fibers sticking up?

What's the temp when you cure with the flash dryer?



The reason I ask is because I have experienced similar recently.

If I cured too hot, for too long with my flash dryer they would get that shiny, vinyl loo. If I didn't do that they would have a very rough texture from fibers poking through.

I switched inks to a thicker, more opaque ink, and I don't have the rough texture, but I do have the texture from the 110 screen I'm using. 

I'm drying them at a lower temp, and they are not shiny, and not rough, but you can see the screen texture.

Here's a pic of my rough ones after a few washes.


I also remember reading on here somewhere that you can heat press plastisol prints after curing with a teflon sheet over them and they smooth out/get glossy.


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## printing40years (Dec 27, 2008)

(The key word in the name of your dryer is ECONO - it's likely too short or doesn't have enough air flow in it for even reliable temperature for the amount of time you need to cure the ink from top to bottom) Read the ink manufacturer"s recommended time and temperature for proper cure. You can download any tech sheet from any manufacturer online these days or just call them up and ask. Slow the belt speed to half your normal speed the do the tests again and see if things improve. If so you are going in the right direction. You don't want 700 F in your oven drying the inks...more like 350 F for the right length of time. Also remember that the thicker the ink is deposited the longer it takes to cure from top to bottom. Also, white ink reflects heat and black ink absorbs heat. Think about it!


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## kebwoo (Feb 3, 2015)

Hi, I am having the same issue. I know this is an old thread but maybe someone can let me know what came of it.

I have a Vastex EconoRed I dryer. I set it at 700 with belt speed of 26 and when I dry white ink (Triangle Phoenix or Street Fighter) it smokes when going through and the smooth, shiny ink going in comes out bumpy and matte. It really seems like it is getting over cured. However, if I lower the dryer temp or speed up the belt the ink doesn't pass the wash test. It cracks and or washes out.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is the smoke an issue? Is it going to catch fire? How can I keep the smooth, glossy finish on the ink and still get it cured all the way through?


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## bpfohler (Jun 7, 2009)

kebwoo said:


> Hi, I am having the same issue. I know this is an old thread but maybe someone can let me know what came of it.
> 
> I have a Vastex EconoRed I dryer. I set it at 700 with belt speed of 26 and when I dry white ink (Triangle Phoenix or Street Fighter) it smokes when going through and the smooth, shiny ink going in comes out bumpy and matte. It really seems like it is getting over cured. However, if I lower the dryer temp or speed up the belt the ink doesn't pass the wash test. It cracks and or washes out.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Is the smoke an issue? Is it going to catch fire? How can I keep the smooth, glossy finish on the ink and still get it cured all the way through?


WOW that's hot and fast!!! We have a Vastex dryer and we run in at [email protected] The prints need some dwell time to cure through. 
What type of ink are you use, ink for cotton or low bleed? We always get a little hand feel when we use low bleed inks even on 100 cotton garment.
Also watch your flash times and temps. If your fibers lift (fibrillation) on your fist stroke and you flash them too hot or long you cure the ink completely and the fibers will not mat down on the top coat.
Try using a slightly higher mesh (130-156) and add some reducer and work on your stroke. If you push too hard you mash the mesh into the ink and when it pops up it pulls ink with it and leaves tiny peaks and texture. When I print I push only hard enough for the screen to meet the shirt and sheer the ink off, don't jam it into the shirt. If you find ink on your platten after printing you've pushed too hard.
Sorry for the long rant.


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## kebwoo (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks so much for the reply!

I am confused by "17 ft" What do you mean by that? 550 is what you set the dryer at, correct? What is the 17ft, is that 17 for the belt speed? And what do you mean yb "the prints need some dwell time to cure though." Sorry if these are dumb questions! 

I have been testing various white inks and found Street Fighter and Triangle Phoenix, both for 50/50, are working the best. I can't seem to get any other white inks through the screens, even as low as 110 mesh. Also experience the fibers lifting issue with any other inks but the Street Fighter and Phoenix I do not have this issue on 110 mesh. Really, this curing issue is the last piece to my Find A White Ink That Works mission. 

Again, any advice is appreciated! Thank you


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## bpfohler (Jun 7, 2009)

17 is the belt speed. Dwell time is the time it's in the dryer, just because the surface of the ink reaches 320 degrees doesn't mean the interior ink has.
If your ink isn't cured all the way through it will wash off.


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## kebwoo (Feb 3, 2015)

Thank you, I will test this speed/temp out. I appreciate it!


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## Kenneth59 (Sep 28, 2013)

Ive been doing this for a long time and Ive never seen plastisol come out of a dryer looking perfectly smooth and shiny like vinyl, it always has some texture to it. Ive seen cold peel transfers look shiny if you peel the paper before it has time to cool completely but never a direct print.

So whats causing your prints to be more rougher than you like? Are you doing flood/print/flash/flood/print/dry? If so the ink will get roughed up some on the second print stroke. If you doing a flood/print/dry method the ink can take on a texture basically like the shirt texture. Either way you do it I always have some texture to the ink. Now many times the ink tack will affect this as well, too tacky and it comes out rougher, more creamy and it comes out smoother.

Hitting 450 is a little high for us, long as the ink hits 375-400 for a couple seconds its basically dry all the way thru, unless its a very thick ink film.

Now if you want it to be absolutely smooth like a piece of glass, you can dry it in a dryer, then put it on a heat press. cover it with the right transfer paper and with medium/heavy pressure at 350/5 seconds it will come out glass smooth, but it looks like a transfer then.

If you cant get certain inks thru the screen, you need to thin it, its not uncommon at all to have to reduce an inks viscosity.


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## kebwoo (Feb 3, 2015)

bpfohler said:


> WOW that's hot and fast!!! We have a Vastex dryer and we run in at [email protected] The prints need some dwell time to cure through.
> What type of ink are you use, ink for cotton or low bleed? We always get a little hand feel when we use low bleed inks even on 100 cotton garment.
> Also watch your flash times and temps. If your fibers lift (fibrillation) on your fist stroke and you flash them too hot or long you cure the ink completely and the fibers will not mat down on the top coat.
> Try using a slightly higher mesh (130-156) and add some reducer and work on your stroke. If you push too hard you mash the mesh into the ink and when it pops up it pulls ink with it and leaves tiny peaks and texture. When I print I push only hard enough for the screen to meet the shirt and sheer the ink off, don't jam it into the shirt. If you find ink on your platten after printing you've pushed too hard.
> Sorry for the long rant.


Ok, I've tested 550 for the dryer and 17 for the belt and it wasn't getting quite hot enough so I upped it to 585 and 20 for the belt and it seems to be the perfect setting. No smoke from the shirt or ink and it's setting beautifully! No bumpy texture on the white from the dryer. No yellowing of the white ink either because of over-cooking. Thanks a million times over for your reply and also to Kenneth59!

I am having an issue still with white ink pulling up the fibers of the shirt. I can print colors fine, they come out smooth and I do not have this issue. The white, for some reason, seems to lift up fibers when I lay the ink. Possibly I am pressing too hard?


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