# Bizzare twist with Imageclip Laser Dark



## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I used obsolete C5200Ne which is 6 years old. I was dead set against Imageclip at first because without white or translucent toner it lacked opacity. 

Believe it or not I have used it with my Canon inkjet printer. 

***** Yes you read it right inkjet printer *****

The attached images were printed with inkjet on the B sheet of Imageclip. The A sheet was printed with translucent laser toner of the negative image with laser printer. When the sheets are married the image on the B sheet was transferred on the A sheet. Then the A sheet is pressed on the shirt.

The advantage with using inkjet is the savings from not using color toner. The transfer is a lot softer than using color toner. It has some stretch compared to color toner. Neenah does not recommend using light color, gradient or photo on Imageclip. Inkjet makes it possible. So goodbye to Imageclip limitations.

The color is a bit muted because the translucent toner film is on top of the image. But using dye sublimation will make the image pop. I don't have dye sublimation printer yet.

I did two settings in the photos below. Photo 2 is lighter. I increased the saturation and level in Photo 1.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Luis, First of all I want to congratulate you on those nice images using my white toner and ink jet.
you are correct in your statement of making the image pop more using sublimation ink.
My patent is for sublimation ink or sublimation toner with laser white toner to make transfers onto dark substrates.
I have been trying to get some chemists to make the paper for me and this may be the solution.
Great job,
AL
1-908-213-2830


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Luis, I just transferred from the {B} sheet of Image Clip for darks to the {A} sheet with the white toner and it removed the white only from the {B} sheet. 
This means you can print color sublimation INK onto the Image Clip for Darks {B} paper and then run it into the Oki laser paper that has white toner in the black location and flood the same image with white toner. Next step you can press the {A} & {B} paper together to remove the image and white coating where the design is to press onto a dark Cotton shirt or 50/50.

This will also work very well onto Dark and light color leather.

The Sublimation Ink gives this process a softer hand and brighter colors.
This process was issued a patent May 27th 2014. Using Image Clips paper makes it an easier more cost effective process then making a new paper to work with there paper.
Luis you are a genius to find that The IC paper for darks accepts ink jet ink.
AL La Costa
1-908-213-2830


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

sublial said:


> Luis, I just transferred from the {B} sheet of Image Clip for darks to the {A} sheet with the white toner and it removed the white only from the {B} sheet.
> This means you can print color sublimation INK onto the Image Clip for Darks {B} paper and then run it into the Oki laser paper that has white toner in the black location and flood the same image with white toner. Next step you can press the {A} & {B} paper together to remove the image and white coating where the design is to press onto a dark Cotton shirt or 50/50.
> 
> This will also work very well onto Dark and light color leather.
> ...


Although I used Canon Inkjet printer to prove that the B sheet can be printed with inkjet I don't recommend using it because it is dye ink. Dye ink will wash off. It should be done with either pigment or sublimation ink. Imageclip Lasre Dark Opaque does not have the same formula as JPSS. JPSS encapsulates the ink so dye does not wash off.

I am trying to unclog my Epson C120 and do wash test. I also found that printing 50 percent instead of 100 percent laser translucent toner the image has more pop.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Lnfortun said:


> Although I used Canon Inkjet printer to prove that the B sheet can be printed with inkjet I don't recommend using it because it is dye ink. Dye ink will wash off. It should be done with either pigment or sublimation ink. Imageclip Lasre Dark Opaque does not have the same formula as JPSS. JPSS encapsulates the ink so dye does not wash off.
> 
> I am trying to unclog my Epson C120 and do wash test. I also found that printing 50 percent instead of 100 percent laser translucent toner the image has more pop.


Luis,

For sure the white toner will sublimate, tried it from Al's earlier samples when sublimation and white toner was his earlier direction for the product. 

The IC for Dark opaque paper will not sublimate though, I've tried it. So any pop will have to come from the polymer toner base being sublimatable. 

I suspect IC for Dark was formulated to resist sublimation (disperse dye from 50/50 tshirts).

But I have to take exception to the claim of JPSS not allowing dye to wash off. 

I use this extensively and when it was first released to market I tested it with several different dye based ink jet printers doing the standard hot water soak tested developed over at HTFDP forum. 

I did this because some selling the paper was touting it was OK for dye inks. In all cases the inks would bleed out during this test. It may be that it is better than some other papers for dye use but not to say "better" is OK.

If you research the numerous posts here on dye inks and JPSS you will find that too many experience issues with dye inks and specifically with that paper.

One person using it with dye observed that it lasted really well if the users only did a cold wash, well that was OK until one customer had some running and bleed out from heavy perspiration. 

But good luck on your testing, I think IC for darks, white toner, and sublimation will be the path to success.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mgparrish said:


> Luis,
> 
> For sure the white toner will sublimate, tried it from Al's earlier samples when sublimation and white toner was his earlier direction for the product.
> 
> ...


Thank you Mike. With my experience initally with IC for dark was when it was used on 50/50 which uses dispersion dye always ruined the transfer because of dye migration. Because the dye sublimates through the opaque. That is why I backed off from IC until I had the translucent toner and using 100% cotton. So having said that IC does not block sublimation. The photo below shows what happened when I pressed IC on 50/50. The toner AL used on the transfer was sublimation.

Al had been using sublimation toner that works well on IC. Another thing is the process I discovered was the inkjet image is on top of the IC opaque before A & B are married. It is not printed behind the opaque after A & B is married. Then the translucent toner image on A sheet pulls the image from B sheet. So I am not trying to sublimate through the opaque yet. That will next when I get my C120 unclogged.

My goal is sublimate through the translucent toner to give the image pop. Translucent film slightly obscured the color. But if I back down to 50% value of the toner the result is much brighter. So I may not need sublimation after all. I don't expect pigment to wash off. My hope is the pigment will bond permanently on both translucent and opaque.

I test washed Canon dye ink and it did not hold like the ones I did with JPSS. I was not going to use dye. I used it to test my theory. I am unclogging my C120. I will do a couple with pigment ink and do rigorous wash/dry cycle regiment to see how it holds up. When I get sublimation ink I will try printing the image after A & B are married to make sure IC is or is not blocking sublimation.

BTW do you have IC? I know you do sublimation. I was wondering if you can do a simple test with sublimation on IC. Print a small image directly on B sheet. Press the sheet without marrying it to A sheet. I am just curious if the inkjet will sublimate through the opaque. If you can please post a photo.

Have you read this thread? http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t47868.html?highlight=jpss+canon+dye+ink. The Op claimed several methods of washing JPSS with dye. She claimed she even used bleach on it.

Thank you.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Lnfortun said:


> Thank you Mike. With my experience initally with IC for dark was when it was used on 50/50 which uses dispersion dye always ruined the transfer because of dye migration. Because the dye sublimates through the opaque. That is why I backed off from IC until I had the translucent toner and using 100% cotton. So having said that IC does not block sublimation. The photo below shows what happened when I pressed IC on 50/50. The toner AL used on the transfer was sublimation.
> 
> Al had been using sublimation toner that works well on IC. Another thing is the process I discovered was the inkjet image is on top of the IC opaque before A & B are married. It is not printed behind the opaque after A & B is married. Then the translucent toner image on A sheet pulls the image from B sheet. So I am not trying to sublimate through the opaque yet. That will next when I get my C120 unclogged.
> 
> ...


I should have been more clear, the IC for dark opaque doesn't completely block sublimation, _however it does not accept sublimation dye well enough to be considered a good sublimation surface_. That photo you posted proves it, it is poor example of sublimation imaging.

Here is IC for Dark sublimated with Sublimation toner, the toner was not ran through a profile on purpose to try and achieve the max color density, would have lit a good sublimation surface on fire with color otherwise ....

The opacity is poor in the attached photo as there was no white toner, however, the image had very little color pop at all until an overcoat of IC laser light clear was applied then the sublimation appeared better, but still not enough to be considered a good sublimated image.

I don't have the shirt anymore but I actually tried the subtoner and IC for Dark on a white tshirt before, I wanted to see how well it would sublimate, it doesn't sublimate well.

The attached image is IC for dark and sublimation toner.

But with the white toner will sublimate nicely, I have seen it using the single step "weedfree" papers and sub toner, the paper was nothing I like due to longevity, but the image would certainly pop well.

And yes I have seen those old 2008 posts about using dye inks on JPSS, no one adequately wash tested the product. 

Physics doesn't change, dye is always water soluble, pigment are particles (solids) and not water soluble.

The only way to test inks on a tshirt is to do the standard soak test using hot water in a container or tub and fold the tshirt over the printed area. Let sit for 1 hour, if the transfer does not bleed out into the folded area where the unprinted tshirt touches the printed area then you have a permanent transfer, otherwise you don't.

No dye transfers have every passed this test, including JPSS. Bleach is not an issue, it's_ heat _that will allow dye to more easily become water soluble and run out into the t-shirt. 

Due to the perspiration issue causing dye to run and not having control of how a customer washes their garments you cannot make sure they always use cold water, even if you advise them. Been there done that.

I'll be testing some IC for Darks with white toner stuff soon, I have some white toner but need to now cannibalize 2 OKI's not working into one working one.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mgparrish said:


> I should have been more clear, the IC for dark opaque doesn't completely block sublimation, _however it does not accept sublimation dye well enough to be considered a good sublimation surface_. That photo you posted proves it, it is poor example of sublimation imaging.
> 
> Here is IC for Dark sublimated with Sublimation toner, the toner was not ran through a profile on purpose to try and achieve the max color density, would have lit a good sublimation surface on fire with color otherwise ....
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike I agree with dye ink. I found that out real quick just soaking it even on warm water.

What I am trying to show in the photo is the effect of dye migration of cotton blend. I had pressed samples of sublimation toner image on 100% cotton. They turned good. I did not expect dye migration could be that drastic.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Lnfortun said:


> Thanks Mike I agree with dye ink. I found that out real quick just soaking it even on warm water.


 Looking forward to seeing how it works with your C120 pigments.

Either case dye sub or pigments, if you don't have to worry about your image saturation % vs. regular laser toner that would be huge.


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## Randyman12 (Dec 27, 2014)

where do you get translucent toner and for what machine?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Randyman12 said:


> where do you get translucent toner and for what machine?


I tried to reply to your PM but your inbox is full. You need to delete or move your old mail in a folder. Newbies are only allowed to receive limited number of PM until you built up your seniority by posting. Replying to newbie intro does not count. So keep posting even one liner.

I emailed you the information where to buy the toner. You can buy it from ATTTRansfer.com. Also read AL's post above. His phone number is listed under his signature.


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi Luis! Long time friend! ... I know this post is a bit dated, but I was wondering a lot lately about this method ... tell me, do you know if the A sheet for Imageclip dark has anything special to it (coating etc) ... if not, why couldn't I use a clear laser transparency to print my laser negative ... then when I marry that with the B sheet printed with inkjet, I could have perfect registration ... what do you think? Thanks!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RedbirdJaybird said:


> Hi Luis! Long time friend! ... I know this post is a bit dated, but I was wondering a lot lately about this method ... tell me, do you know if the A sheet for Imageclip dark has anything special to it (coating etc) ... if not, why couldn't I use a clear laser transparency to print my laser negative ... then when I marry that with the B sheet printed with inkjet, I could have perfect registration ... what do you think? Thanks!


Hi Krista,

The Imageclip Laser Dark A sheet has special coating that allows the toner and opaque from B sheet to release and transfer on fabric. I thought about trying it on transparency but I have not found anything that has high melting point. Most are 300F or under. Actually, come to think of it Forever Laser Dark Low Temp Nocut and Forever Flex are transparency material. The temp ranges from 250F to 350F but it has special release coating just like Imageclip Laser Dark A sheet.

BTW Forever Laser Dark Low Temp Nocut is cheaper than Imageclip. It makes it easier to line up the registration when A and B sheets are married. Also Forever can handle fine detail better than Imageclip.


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks Luis, I knew you would be able to answer -- you are the GURU of all things heat transfer!! (mgparrish is right there with ya!). Okay, so that settles that ... I should have figured - DUH! if it was that easy, people wouldn't be paying $4 per for 11x17, would they?!!! ... and I didn't even think about the possibility of the transparency melting during the press either!! I actually have laser vellums but not sure if they would melt either. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?!! You saved me from spending time and materials on testing that would have undoubtedly failed, so thanks again! BTW, I guess that is why Al's version of the "A" sheet is called release paper, right?!!

Al has a great price on his version of IC for darks, but you are correct about the cost compared to the Forever No-Cut ... and honestly, I've been dying to try the Forever, so I think I may spring for some. Al's white toner is working great for me, not only for the IC for Darks, but also for IC Koncert Tees - if I throw one pass of white after the color pass in my OKI, I get the brightest whites now, where I used to get a washed-out, grayish white at best!! Believe it or not, I have not had any issues with the Koncert T's paper fading or cracking after washing either! ... I know that many have encountered that, but I have sold many black & navy shirts with the Super-white Koncert ... the hand is not too bad, even considering the second layer of white toner, but more than that, they are holding up wash after wash!! I even have some test subjects here that occasionally end up in the dirty whites or towels pile and therefore get washed in hot water and hot dry, and they still look great! ... perhaps it's the layer of Al's white toner? ... I've taken your advice and make sure to always stretch, stretch, and then stretch some more, and I have to think that helps tremendously with my success with that paper!

One thing I've been curious about ... what is the real difference between the Forever No-Cut and the No-Cut "Finishing" ... does the "Finishing" version have a different coating on the non-foil B sheet that helps with the flock/foil adhesion? Could the "finishing" be used for just regular color printing? I have stumbled upon a supplier that has a great price on both versions, not sure which one to get ... incidentally, I know you were asking about sources for the paper that sold for under $2 for 8.5 x 11 and I have information on that, let me know if you are interested!

What I would love to find out more about is how using a RIP can help with minimizing hand ... neither my Oki's or my Canon Pro-100 are PS printers (I have the same Oki's as you do, C5150's) ... I know that Forever's RIP will not work with a DIY white toner setup (correct me if I'm wrong), but I do have a copy of Ghostscript, and if GS would work, or if there was any RIP software that would help decrease hand, I would be inclined to give it a try ... let me know if you have any thoughts on that, when you have a moment!

Luis, always a pleasure and privilege to speak with you!!! Thanks again


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

P.S. Wanted to let you know, I've been using your macros quite a bit lately! ... especially your Envelope ... I've created some KILLER custom monograms with it ... no more paying licensing fees to Font Brothers WOO-HOOO!!!!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RedbirdJaybird said:


> P.S. Wanted to let you know, I've been using your macros quite a bit lately! ... especially your Envelope ... I've created some KILLER custom monograms with it ... no more paying licensing fees to Font Brothers WOO-HOOO!!!!


I would love to see photos of your killer designs.

Regarding TransferRip it is too expensive if you already own Photoshop CS or CC versions. Ripping the image so that it is broken down into uniform halftone micro dots of same size and spacing will prevent the image from cracking and improve the hand. It can be done with Photoshop Actions to automate the process with a click of the Action button.

I put together Photoshop Actions that mimics TransferRip. Check this link: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/printers-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers/t645105.html#post3489241. The images were made for printer with built in white toner such as C711WT. For CMYK and replaceable white toner/drum set the mask can be easily done by changing the image to uniform halftone.

I also have Actions for creating the Mask for CMYK and White laser 2 pass process. Also Actions for 2 printer system that uses white toner/drum sets in place of Magenta and Yellow toner/drums.

If you pair the OKI color laser with pigment or sublimation ink you can use the Photoshop halftone especially with Forever Laser Dark Low Temp Nocut, because the process does not use the multi pass process with laser CMYK and white toner. The advantage is you can align the two sheets easily with transparent A sheet. You print the continuous (not halftone) CMYK of the image with sublimation ink on B sheet. Print the halftone of the color image with laser white toner on A sheet. For pigment ink translucent toner works better in place of white toner. When you merry A & B you will have the halftone of the CMYK image on A sheet. Imageclip cannot handle the halftone because of the fine detail. 

Forever Flex is Koncert T version at best where it requires only black toner. But Since you have white toner it will work better because white toner does not degrade the opacity compared to black toner.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Krista, Are you using my sublimation toner with printing the dark shirts? Glad to hear you like my white toner?
yes Luis and Mike Parrish are very supportive for this forum. They are a wealth of knowledge and nice people like you.

AL


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Hey Boys! Thanks for replying! There are no other brains I'd rather pick!! Luis, I will absolutely send you some pics! I'm excited about your PS Action ... will check out tonite (must feed children first!) Al, I have really not used the sublimation toners yet, mostly due to lack of time experimenting ... I was horrified to discover both my son & daughter were printing from the "subli" oki for their homework & stuff, most of it papers going into the trash >> that was some EXPENSIVE trash ha! ... totally my own stupid fault, I should have locked up that printer or at least put a huge sign on it ... but at least now they know. I have a bad fuser in one of the printers which is not a huge deal as I can swap out ... just need to find a replacement, as you both know, we would all be successful & rich ... if only we had the time!!!
I love your white toner though ... I will be purchasing some more soon. 

I don't have an inkjet sublimation system and frankly I don't want one ... too many horror tales of clogging, and if I branch out with anything new, I would like to pick up a small embroidery machine. I do want to try the "Luis Twist" with my pigment ink however ... Luis, do you think the white toner would mute the ink too much from being on top? Al, is the transparent toner the same price as the white? 

Thanks


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

... also Al, if I wanted to go for the system where the white replaces the magenta/yellow, could you supply the drums or would I have to send you some? If you could, how much for a cleaned, fill drum? Thanks!


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Luis, please pm info & pricing to me for the PS Actions!! If I don't have enough room in my inbox here, let me know


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RedbirdJaybird said:


> I don't have an inkjet sublimation system and frankly I don't want one ... too many horror tales of clogging, and if I branch out with anything new, I would like to pick up a small embroidery machine. I do want to try the "Luis Twist" with my pigment ink however ... Luis, do you think the white toner would mute the ink too much from being on top? Al, is the transparent toner the same price as the white?
> 
> Thanks


I certainly vouch for the clogging issue. I had disposed 5 inkjet printers. I heard others saying that Richo is better than Epson clogging wise.

I only have translucent toner. I am assuming that for pigment ink white toner may mute or obscure the color when it is sitting on top of the color ink. Sublimation ink is different because it will sublimate through the white toner and not obscure the color.

One way to find out is to try the white toner on A sheet for pigment ink.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Luis, Krista also has sublimation toner. I have asked her if she has used it in making the transfers for Dark shirts. If she uses it to make the dark shirts it will improve the cracking issue because she will be replacing the pigment colors for dye colors. the transparent white toner also does the same thing.
I am supplying the sublimation ink jet printers with my white toner with positive results from my customers on the cracking issue. I haven,t heard any complaints on cracking issues with the sublimation ink jet for color and the white toner process.
I have never owned an ink jet printer because of the horror stories but have found that the newer model Epson and Ricoh printers are very reliable as long as the owner maintains the maintenance sequence each time they use it. 
The main reason for the cracking is the pigments and the RESINS in the toner. You don,t have that in the dye inks and the color pigments in the sub. toners.
I am impressed with the software you have designed to reduce the cracking for those still using the pigment toner process.
AL


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

I just got rid of a Ricoh Gelsprinter ... I loved it, printed better than any other printer I've ever had, even my Canon Pixma Pro). It was only ever used with OEM ink though, no sublimation ... as much as I steadfastly determined myself to maintain the printer to keep the lines unclogged, unfortunately due to a few years of tragic events in my family, I was forced to be away from home for extended periods of time ... while I tried to set-up a system of daily activity on the printer while I was away, my husband and kids were staying mostly with my in-laws, and frankly although he gave it his best college-try, he was not very helpful--he is totally clueless about all things digital and/or printable, and that, coupled with the frequent power outages we have here in Tallahassee (our lovely Live Oaks ... the gifts that keep on giving!!!) basically doomed that printer ... after going thru 2 full sets of cartridges and still not being able to unclog the lines, it was time to throw in the towel ... the printer itself was quite reasonably priced ... the Ricoh ink, not so much!

If I ever do go with inkjet sub, I will definitely go with Ricoh ... but I don't see that happening anytime in the near future ... maybe in my NEXT life lol!!

Al, you have inspired me to get back to working on printing some great products with your sub toner! My dear MIL got me a PREEMO Asus Pro-Art monitor and the factory calibration is excellent - I've never had nearly 100% matching monitor/print color output! That should assist me with getting the icc profiles properly installed ... I will keep you posted!


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

what color profile are you using?
AL


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi Luis! I am really interested in your PS actions for the RIP alternative! Please send me pricing & info on how to purchase when you have a sec! Thanks! 

Hi Al!


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Krista, I need for you to call me to discuss the color profile you are using with my sublimation toners.
Perhaps you need a different profile.
AL
1-908-213-2830


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

I will call you Al ... I've been meaning to, but my daughter's drama seems to trump all else these days for me!!! What is a good time to call you? I'm available Sunday and pretty much any time afternoon/early evening this week.

Thanks!


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Krista, Monday PM would be a good time. 
AL


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RedbirdJaybird said:


> Hi Luis! I am really interested in your PS actions for the RIP alternative! Please send me pricing & info on how to purchase when you have a sec! Thanks!
> 
> Hi Al!


Krista,

Sorry for the late reply. I had computer issues. I sent you an email that explains about it.


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## quality tees (Jul 20, 2015)

Lnfortun said:


> Forever Flex is Koncert T version at best where it requires only black toner. But Since you have white toner it will work better because white toner does not degrade the opacity compared to black toner.


I've had a demo of the forever flex soft no-cut:-
FOREVER - Heat Transfer Paper - Flex-Soft (No-Cut)

Print black toner and get a white transfer... but the white wasn't a "bright" white, it was slightly muted and I thought it might be because of the black toner underneath.

Thinking what your saying means I'm right. If I used white toner with these papers - would the final product on the dark tee shirt pop white?

In fact this is the problem I've found generally with the OKI white toner printers. The transfers is produces aren't a "bright" white. It's sort of grey or milky.

Is there a better way to produce whiter whites?


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## quality tees (Jul 20, 2015)

@sublial
Al, do you supply to the UK, or do you have a UK agent?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

quality tees said:


> I've had a demo of the forever flex soft no-cut:-
> FOREVER - Heat Transfer Paper - Flex-Soft (No-Cut)
> 
> Print black toner and get a white transfer... but the white wasn't a "bright" white, it was slightly muted and I thought it might be because of the black toner underneath.
> ...


Forever Flex white transfer as I mentioned is the company's version of Koncert T to transfer white on dark shirt. The whiteness is muted using black toner. 

The white toner by itself does not make it pop. It pulls the white part of the image from the opaque to transfer white part of full color artwork. 

It is the opaque that comes from the B sheet and the white coating on A sheet that makes it possible to get bright white image if white or translucent toner is used instead of black toner. With Flex soft the black toner is sandwiched between the white coating on A sheet and the opaque from B sheet after the two sheets are married. So the black toner can cause the whiteness to become muted. That and the thin white coating on the A sheet makes the white dull and grayish. To enhance the whiteness use translucent or white toner instead of black toner. The white coating on the A sheet is an added bonus to cover the black toner. The opaque from B sheet blocks the color of the shirt.

When using black toner change the opacity of the black toner by 50% or use 50% gray to improve the whiteness of the transferred image on the shirt. However, lowering the opacity may cause some dropout if the density of the toner is not high. With OKI printer set the quality to fine in Job Options tab of the printer preference dialog window.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

John, Have you used Image Clip for dark paper with white toner?

Yes your problem you describe is caused mostly by the BLACK toner. Another cause can be from applying to much pressure when pressing the shirt.

I am not familiar with the Oki white toner or Forever paper.

I use the white toner I developed in 2006 with Ink Jet sublimation ink for the color and Image Clip.

For just bright white I just print my white toner on the A paper and marry it to the B paper to press onto the fabric. The results are bright white.
AL
1-908-213-2830


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## quality tees (Jul 20, 2015)

sublial said:


> John, Have you used Image Clip for dark paper with white toner?
> 
> Yes your problem you describe is caused mostly by the BLACK toner. Another cause can be from applying to much pressure when pressing the shirt.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your quick replies.

Al, I haven't tried image clip paper with white toner.

Do you supply to the UK, or have a distributor over here?

Also, does the sublimation ink work on 100% cotton or does it have to be poly? Or does the sublimation ink bond to the chemicals on the transfer paper which in turn bonds to the tee-shirt?

Sorry for all the newbie questions. Do you have any photo results.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

I do ship all over the world.
The ink jet sublimation for Darks is for COTTON shirts.
The binder is in the paper.

Main advantage with this process is it eliminates the cracking that is associated with toners.

I don,t have good sample pictures but will ask one of my customers tosend me one to post. He is a photographer and does a lot of portrait photos for funerals.
AL
[email protected]


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## quality tees (Jul 20, 2015)

Great stuff! Will email just now.


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

sublial said:


> John, Have you used Image Clip for dark paper with white toner?
> 
> Yes your problem you describe is caused mostly by the BLACK toner. Another cause can be from applying to much pressure when pressing the shirt.
> 
> ...


Hi Al, it's been long time I din't come here. Is that the newest technology founded again? 

Is that mean by only using normal laser printer, sublimation printer can make good quality print? Will we get the exact colour by sublimation or not? or can I use pigment ink as well?

Sorry many question. Excited to know this. If you got the video of this or the picture of the output will be better.


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

Lnfortun said:


> I certainly vouch for the clogging issue. I had disposed 5 inkjet printers. I heard others saying that Richo is better than Epson clogging wise.
> 
> I only have translucent toner. I am assuming that for pigment ink white toner may mute or obscure the color when it is sitting on top of the color ink. Sublimation ink is different because it will sublimate through the white toner and not obscure the color.
> 
> One way to find out is to try the white toner on A sheet for pigment ink.


Hi let me know the result with pigment ink. Because pigment ink can get the nearer to actual colour without any calibration.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

FulStory said:


> Hi Al, it's been long time I din't come here. Is that the newest technology founded again?
> 
> Is that mean by only using normal laser printer, sublimation printer can make good quality print? Will we get the exact colour by sublimation or not? or can I use pigment ink as well?
> 
> Sorry many question. Excited to know this. If you got the video of this or the picture of the output will be better.


This is not a promotion or endorsement. Al asked to post 2 photos that was sent to him by his customer that uses Al's white toner and sublimation inkjet process. Al sent samples to try and that got me started with pressing on dark shirt so I thought I would return the favor. So please check the attached photos. The photos where a bit fuzzy because they had glare to them due flash or lighting condition. I did adjust them a bit to take care of the glare.

Again the photos are not mine. So please direct any question you might have to Al.


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi there John! Not sure if you have closed the book on this issue, but I can definitely vouch for the fact that if you use the Image-Clip Koncert Tees paper and print a 2nd layer of the white or translucent toner from Al, the whites will pop off the shirt! I was only ever able to get a "dingy-white" with the Koncert by itself, no matter how much I played with colors, output etc ... until I used it with Al's toner, I can now get a tru-white, and no speckles! I use this for my shirt labels on darks and blacks - works great!

Al, I still need to call you! It is end of school time hear and my daughter (soon to be 14-year) has me running around in circles ... I told her if she doesn't lay off and let me take a minute to actually WORK and take care of business, we will run out of money and she can forget school dance dress, graduation dress, end-of-year party dress ... and all the drama that goes with it! Lord I do not miss those days!!

Luis, still anxiously awaiting your macro! I hear you about Windows 10 - GARBAGGIO!! I don't see any reason to ever stop using Windows 7 Prof ... if I get any new computer, first thing I will do is wipe hard drive and install 7!! I might take you up on your offer and send you some images to "rip" for me ... I still need to send you some work I did with your Envelope macro - I love it ... I will never pay for another monogram font license again!!!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RedbirdJaybird said:


> Hi there John! Not sure if you have closed the book on this issue, but I can definitely vouch for the fact that if you use the Image-Clip Koncert Tees paper and print a 2nd layer of the white or translucent toner from Al, the whites will pop off the shirt! I was only ever able to get a "dingy-white" with the Koncert by itself, no matter how much I played with colors, output etc ... until I used it with Al's toner, I can now get a tru-white, and no speckles! I use this for my shirt labels on darks and blacks - works great!
> 
> Al, I still need to call you! It is end of school time hear and my daughter (soon to be 14-year) has me running around in circles ... I told her if she doesn't lay off and let me take a minute to actually WORK and take care of business, we will run out of money and she can forget school dance dress, graduation dress, end-of-year party dress ... and all the drama that goes with it! Lord I do not miss those days!!
> 
> Luis, still anxiously awaiting your macro! I hear you about Windows 10 - GARBAGGIO!! I don't see any reason to ever stop using Windows 7 Prof ... if I get any new computer, first thing I will do is wipe hard drive and install 7!! I might take you up on your offer and send you some images to "rip" for me ... I still need to send you some work I did with your Envelope macro - I love it ... I will never pay for another monogram font license again!!!


Krista,

I am still struggling along after Windows 10 disaster. Plus I have been busy working with CorelDRAW support about X6 issue that my client in Japan is having. He is not able to see the Rhinestone template macro in his Japanese version of X6 when he was creating new toolbar of the macro. It is puzzling because I sent a copy to Corel to see if it will install in X6 English version. CorelDRAW support staff installed the macro just fine in English version.

We had hail storm last week. It left $5,100.00 damage on my roof and ceiling combined plus $2,600.00 damage on my car. Had to spend time getting estimates. Good thing is the deductible is $250.00 for each coverage.

I don't have inkjet printer to print CMYK on B sheet to marry it with A sheet that has ripped image of translucent toner to test the process. I chatted with Office Depot staff online about having an image printed or copied with inkjet ink unit on my paper (B sheet). I was told it can be done for 0.59 cents a copy. If that works it will be great. I don't have to worry about inkjet clogging headache anymore. Hopefully the ink is pigmented. I have to order some Forever Laser dark low temp no cut so I can compare it with IC Laser Dark. Hopefully I will get back to that project soon.

Sorry for getting out of topic.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Attached is a sample I received from ATTTransfer that used Imageclip Laser Dark. The color image was printed with sublimation ink on the B sheet and the white toner of the silhouette of the color image on A sheet. I married the A and B sheet to transfer the color image from B sheet to A sheet. The registration is a bit off because I did not tape the sheets together when I married them to weed the excess background. The image was pressed on black 100% cotton. The color is vivid and the black is true black. The hand is softer because there is only one layer of toner controlled amount used which is white.

You need at least CMYK with extra K-toner/drum set filled with white or translucent toner and Inkjet sublimation printer.

The second photo was printed by accident in single pass with laser printer with K-toner/drum set filled with white or translucent toner. I forgot to switch K-toner/drum set back to black before I printed the color image. Normally it is printed 2 passes. The color image is printed on A sheet with k-toner/drum set filled with black toner in place. The K-toner/drum set is replaced with K-toner/drum set filled with translucent toner. Print the white silhouette of the color image over the color image on A sheet. Marry A and B sheet then press the A sheet on the fabric. It could have been done with sublimation ink and white laser toner instead of pure laser toner.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Krista, Do you still want to sell one of your Oki 3200 or 5200 printers. I may have an interest in one of them.
AL
White Sublimation Toner, Clear Transparent Labels, Waterslide Decals, Sublimation Transfer Inks, Toners and Heat Transfer Papers and Heat Transfer Presses


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks for posting the Image Clip for dark pictures using the sublimation ink and the white toner on the Oki printer.
AL
White Sublimation Toner, Clear Transparent Labels, Waterslide Decals, Sublimation Transfer Inks, Toners and Heat Transfer Papers and Heat Transfer Presses


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## quality tees (Jul 20, 2015)

Lnfortun said:


> Attached is a sample I received from ATTTransfer that used Imageclip Laser Dark. The color image was printed with sublimation ink on the B sheet and the white toner of the silhouette of the color image on A sheet. I married the A and B sheet to transfer the color image from B sheet to A sheet. The registration is a bit off because I did not tape the sheets together when I married them to weed the excess background. The image was pressed on black 100% cotton. The color is vivid and the black is true black. The hand is softer because there is only one layer of toner controlled amount used which is white.
> 
> You need at least CMYK with extra K-toner/drum set filled with white or translucent toner and Inkjet sublimation printer.
> 
> The second photo was printed by accident in single pass with laser printer with K-toner/drum set filled with white or translucent toner. I forgot to switch K-toner/drum set back to black before I printed the color image. Normally it is printed 2 passes. The color image is printed on A sheet with k-toner/drum set filled with black toner in place. The K-toner/drum set is replaced with K-toner/drum set filled with translucent toner. Print the white silhouette of the color image over the color image on A sheet. Marry A and B sheet then press the A sheet on the fabric. It could have been done with sublimation ink and white laser toner instead of pure laser toner.


Results look amazing!

Can I ask - I already have a good heat press, so how much would the kit cost to set this all up, just approx 

Also, how robust is the laser printer - does swapping the toner/drums all the time put a strain on the printer - or would the ideal be to have
1 x dedicated CMYK printer and
1 x dedicated White toner printer.

What is the approx cost of the A4 papers A&B?

Thanks! John


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

John, The Oki printer only needs to print one white cartridge in GRAYSCALE as a mask of the design on the :A: paper and you print CMYK sublimation ink on the :B: paper.

No need to switch cartridges. You only need a ink jet sub printer and a Oki color printer with ONE white cartridge.
AL
White Sublimation Toner, Clear Transparent Labels, Waterslide Decals, Sublimation Transfer Inks, Toners and Heat Transfer Papers and Heat Transfer Presses


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## quality tees (Jul 20, 2015)

sublial said:


> John, The Oki printer only needs to print one white cartridge in GRAYSCALE as a mask of the design on the :A: paper and you print CMYK sublimation ink on the :B: paper.
> 
> No need to switch cartridges. You only need a ink jet sub printer and a Oki color printer with ONE white cartridge.
> AL
> White Sublimation Toner, Clear Transparent Labels, Waterslide Decals, Sublimation Transfer Inks, Toners and Heat Transfer Papers and Heat Transfer Presses


Ok, thanks Al - Understand.

So I print the :A: and :B: sheets then marry them together with the heat press. Then transfer the result onto the Tee?

Can you let me know the price for your packs of A & B sheets?

Also, are there any youtube demos available?

Thanks in advance, John


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

quality tees said:


> Results look amazing!
> 
> Can I ask - I already have a good heat press, so how much would the kit cost to set this all up, just approx
> 
> ...


I don't have the cost of the White Laser toner and inkjet sublimation kit. You have to contact Al Lacosta of ATTTransfer.com. For sublimation application you can keep the k-toner/drum set filled with white of translucent in place until you need to print full color CMYK. The image to be printed on A sheet is white only anyway. The CMYK image is printed on B sheet with inkjet sublimation ink. So far swapping cartridges has not affected the performance of the printer.

Having two printers is an option for 2 pass printing of full color CMYK and white toner image. That will eliminate swapping step.

I would like to add to Al's post. The silhouette of the color image that is printed on A sheet is solid grayscale and not negative grayscale. Otherwise, the whole image from the B sheet will not transfer. The purpose of grayscale is to control the amount of white toner. Excessive white toner can add to cracking.


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## mrneko (Apr 22, 2017)

@Lnfortun

Have you had the chance to try pigment ink on B sheet? Which one would you recommend for best hand and durability, forever or IC? Just wondering if you have tried sub ink/pigment ink on IC light B?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mrneko said:


> @Lnfortun
> 
> Have you had the chance to try pigment ink on B sheet? Which one would you recommend for best hand and durability, forever or IC? Just wondering if you have tried sub ink/pigment ink on IC light B?


No I have not done pigment ink because all my inkjet printers were in the dumpster because I was not able to unclog or fix any of the printers. However, Al Lacosta of ATTTransfer has a system that uses the sublimation printer in conjunction with Imageclip Laser Dark and laser printer. He has a patent of the process. He sent me sample that was printed with sublimation on the B sheet and white toner on A sheet. I married the two sheets then pressed the A sheet on the shirt. His process is similar to what I have done only it is using sublimation ink instead of pigment. The result is vibrant color, softer hand and true black. The attached image (Beagle) is a bit off registration. I did not have a light table at the time.

This is from one of his clients. Double click it to enlarge: [media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/200377d1463666334-bizzare-twist-imageclip-laser-dark-ic-sublimation-inkjet-2.gif[/media]

According to Al his inkjet printer did not clog even though it sat idle for a month. That is a big plus. I had my printers on 3 day schedule to print to prevent the nozzles from clogging but eventually they all clogged beyond recovery.

BTW sublimation ink is better than pigment because it is more permanent and sublimates through the whiter toner, pigment ink will not. The white toner will mute some of the pigment color because the white toner will be sitting on top of the ink after the sheets are married.

Forever transfer is not printable with inkjet ink. Besides it is harder to use than Imageclip. Forever has plastic feel and cracks more than Imageclip.


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## mrneko (Apr 22, 2017)

@Lnfortun

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll get in touch with Al.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

This is my latest experiment. I pressed a blank Siser Colorprint Soft as overlay to the Beagle of the image I posted earlier (Post #50). I hand cut the overlay because I wanted to see how translucent it is against the bare shirt. You will notice the vinyl around the image at close up. So if there are cavities in the image they have to be contour cut and weeded before pressing over the image. It can be minimized by kiss cutting (contour) with vinyl cutter. I have two vinyl cutter but I did not use them on purpose as I mentioned earlier.

Colorprint Soft is translucent Ecosolvent ink transfer for light. But like I said earlier it is noticeable on unprinted area like the areas around the image above. I was surprised the feel was softer than the laser transferred image before it was overlayed. It is not as soft as Imageclip Laser Light or inkjet for light though. For me it is soft as screen print. It makes a little crinkle sound because it is vinyl. The color showed through really well.

My goal was to prevent the opaque of the laser transfer from cracking and breaking down when washed. It seems it will add durability. I will post picture after the shirt is washed few times.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Hello everyone... I have a question... i have been reading to figure out how to make my images using the laser image clip dark more vibrant, not so faded looking. I have read through all of this thread am really confused. I print my image onto the image clip dark paper and then press it onto the carrier sheet and then press it on the shirt. I dont understand the printing on both sheets. And the use of sublimation inks on dark doesnt make sense to me either. I want to be able to press light hand transfers onto dark shirts (and.. who doesn't right? lol). It sounds like you are doing this but I dont understand how. I have a ricoh sublimation printer and a hp laserjet pro (and some numbers)... and an epson artisan for regular ink jet printing... I cant afford to buy an Oki white toner printer... can i swap out one of the cartridges and put a white toner cartridge in? Any advice you have would be so helpful!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Shallena66 said:


> Hello everyone... I have a question... i have been reading to figure out how to make my images using the laser image clip dark more vibrant, not so faded looking. I have read through all of this thread am really confused. I print my image onto the image clip dark paper and then press it onto the carrier sheet and then press it on the shirt. I dont understand the printing on both sheets. And the use of sublimation inks on dark doesnt make sense to me either. I want to be able to press light hand transfers onto dark shirts (and.. who doesn't right? lol). It sounds like you are doing this but I dont understand how. I have a ricoh sublimation printer and a hp laserjet pro (and some numbers)... and an epson artisan for regular ink jet printing... I cant afford to buy an Oki white toner printer... can i swap out one of the cartridges and put a white toner cartridge in? Any advice you have would be so helpful!


I am surprised you did not have issue using HP for ImageClip laser dark. Everybody was saying the HP fuser is too hot for the transfer paper.

You need white or translucent toner and 2 pass printing to enhance the opacity. The purpose of having white or translucent toner is to be able to transfer the white of the artwork and CMYK or RGB color. For pure laser toner application two artworks are required for 2 pass printing. The first artwork is the mirrored image of original CMYK or RGB color. The second is a duplicate of the first artwork. It is either converted to silhoutte negative grayscale or pure black image. The A sheet is first printed with first artwork. Then the black toner/drum set is replaced with white toner/drum set. Carefully feed the A sheet back to the multi purpose tray. The paper must be snug and no side to side and front slack to prevent misregistration. Then print the second artwork over the color image on the A sheet. The printer must be configured to print grayscale only so that it will use the K toner/drum set instead of CMY composite black. CMY composite black will not work because the printer will not use the white toner/drum set.

The photo below was printed with pure laser toner 2 pass process.










The sublimation and white or translucent process works the same way as described above. However, instead the first artwork must be normal facing and it is printed on B sheet of the transfer with sublimation ink. The reason is inkjet ink will not print on the A sheet and the opaque from B sheet needs toner on A sheet. Otherwise the opaque will not transfer to A sheet and self weeding will not be possible. The second artwork must be pure black because negative grayscale will only print where white is need. Pure black image (White on the A sheet) is needed to pull everything including the white of the artwork from B sheet during the marrying/weeding process.

Since you own sublimation printer I assume you know the science behind sublimation process.

The sublimation and white or translucent toner process works this way: a) When heat is applied to sublimation ink its state change to gas and bonds on the toner and opaque molecules on A sheet. After it cools down it changes back to solid. The color will become vibrant and permanent. 

The beagle below was printed with sublimation and laser white or translucent toner process.










The advantage of the sublimation and white or translucent process are:

a) Less toner is required (White or translucent toner only) which makes softer hand transfer.
b) Eliminates dropout issue that is associated with very light, gradient and photo artwork.
c) Color are vibrant and permanent
d) The black is true black instead of CMY composite black that is produced by CMYW printers.
e) The total cost of the laser and inkjet printer is a fraction of the price of CMYW printer. MY CMYK C5200Ne printer is at least 27 years old.


Polymer of laser transfer becomes brittle after 24 hours before wash and cracks when stretched. So be sure to repress it covered with parchment paper then post stretch while still warm. This improve the hand and minimize cracking.

BTW Ghost White company sells white toner for HP printers. Not sure it will work the same way as the OKI compatible white or translucent toner like I used. Others are saying that the colors looked washed out even with HP white toner. Search the forums about it.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_151018007305313&key=6ba4d2065aadca6caf7ee1cc1bf9ef79&libId=j9rm7lam0100on84000DA78kviug4&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t-shirtforums.com%2Fprinters-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers%2Ft722794.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ghost-white-toner.com%2Fgibt-es-white-toner-fuer-meinen-drucker%2F%3Flang%3Den&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t-shirtforums.com%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearchid%3D23389465&title=%5BHP%20Printers%5D%20I%20have%20a%20hp%20cp2020%20lazer%20printer%20how%20good%20will%20transfers%20be%20with%20this%3F%20-%20T-Shirt%20Forums&txt=Ghost%20White%20Toner%20for%20your%20printer!%20%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C2%A2%20Ghost%20Webshop

https://www.ghost-white-toner.com/product-category/toner-supplies/?lang=en

Look for your model in the list.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Thank you for the clarification! I was really confused... i read the post several times before it started to clear the fog away. so... i have my sublimation printer... and if i can switch out my black toner cartridge for a white toner cartridge... I may be in business! I can understand getting faded prints with the sublimation ... when i press a new design or fabric i always make sure i have a large extra so i can try out different temperatures and pressures to get to just the right one... so it may be something like that... I will check out ghost and also readup in the forum about the hp with white toner... I feel like I am on the right path


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Lnfortun said:


> This is my latest experiment. I pressed a blank Siser Colorprint Soft as overlay to the Beagle of the image I posted earlier (Post #50). I hand cut the overlay because I wanted to see how translucent it is against the bare shirt. You will notice the vinyl around the image at close up. So if there are cavities in the image they have to be contour cut and weeded before pressing over the image. It can be minimized by kiss cutting (contour) with vinyl cutter. I have two vinyl cutter but I did not use them on purpose as I mentioned earlier.
> 
> Colorprint Soft is translucent Ecosolvent ink transfer for light. But like I said earlier it is noticeable on unprinted area like the areas around the image above. I was surprised the feel was softer than the laser transferred image before it was overlayed. It is not as soft as Imageclip Laser Light or inkjet for light though. For me it is soft as screen print. It makes a little crinkle sound because it is vinyl. The color showed through really well.
> 
> My goal was to prevent the opaque of the laser transfer from cracking and breaking down when washed. It seems it will add durability. I will post picture after the shirt is washed few times.


Update!

The hand got worse after wash. It was more plasticy and crinkle got worse. The image staid intact though and no fading.


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## hassanwsr (Jul 18, 2014)

Lnfortun said:


> Update!
> 
> The hand got worse after wash. It was more plasticy and crinkle got worse. The image staid intact though and no fading.


Will this process work with the newer Led Oki laser printers? Also, how can I get your photoshop action for CMYW macro raster


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Luis, Your original post about the ink jet ink and the white toner has evolved to being the least costly and easiest image Clip for darks transfer to date.
There is now a printer that just prints white toner on a clear HOT peel film that takes the place of the Image Clip {A imaging paper} . This film allows you to register the white mask over the color print of the ink jet transfer paper very easily to marry them together as well as making the marrying procedure a real mistake process. The film when pressed to the shirt saves time because it is a HOT peel. Luis I have to commend you for opening the door with your original post by applying ink jet to the B paper and white toner to the A paper. Your discovery has improved the laser and ink jet onto darks to being a easy and less costly equipment process. It is because of you this was all made possible. Thanks.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

sublial said:


> ...making the marrying procedure a *real mistake process*. Thanks (to Lnfortun/Luis).


did you mean 'real mistake-free process'?

i'll add my thanks to Luis as well,
not just for this thread, but for all the knowledge he has shared


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## DaveSmithe (Oct 17, 2017)

sublial said:


> Luis, Your original post about the ink jet ink and the white toner has evolved to being the least costly and easiest image Clip for darks transfer to date.
> There is now a printer that just prints white toner on a clear HOT peel film that takes the place of the Image Clip {A imaging paper} . This film allows you to register the white mask over the color print of the ink jet transfer paper very easily to marry them together as well as making the marrying procedure a real mistake process. The film when pressed to the shirt saves time because it is a HOT peel. Luis I have to commend you for opening the door with your original post by applying ink jet to the B paper and white toner to the A paper. Your discovery has improved the laser and ink jet onto darks to being a easy and less costly equipment process. It is because of you this was all made possible. Thanks.




Al ... still waiting to hear from you about the film ... is it available?


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## hassanwsr (Jul 18, 2014)

sublial said:


> Luis, Your original post about the ink jet ink and the white toner has evolved to being the least costly and easiest image Clip for darks transfer to date.
> There is now a printer that just prints white toner on a clear HOT peel film that takes the place of the Image Clip {A imaging paper} . This film allows you to register the white mask over the color print of the ink jet transfer paper very easily to marry them together as well as making the marrying procedure a real mistake process. The film when pressed to the shirt saves time because it is a HOT peel. Luis I have to commend you for opening the door with your original post by applying ink jet to the B paper and white toner to the A paper. Your discovery has improved the laser and ink jet onto darks to being a easy and less costly equipment process. It is because of you this was all made possible. Thanks.


What is the name of the paper?


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

I have it being made now and will start with the 81/2 x 14"
Being shipped from overseas.
AL


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## evygrace (Mar 9, 2008)

I have been looking at the White Toner from Al for years. I wish there was a video to show this process. I find it too technical with just the word explanation.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

I guess you have being I am the one who developed it for the Oki color printers in 2007.
AL


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