# NEWBIE NEEDS HELP with dye sub on Lycra/Spandex



## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Hi, All - I'm a green newbie when it comes to dye sublimation (I've had my printer for a whopping week now)... To date, my experience has been dismal, and my Google searches led me to you all for assistance.

I am having trouble getting my black color come out BLACK (it transfers brownish, grey, and purple), and my other colors are washed out, faded, and not vibrant. I'm using various types of Lycra/Spandex as my substrate. Given my extensive research, I *believe* that my heat press temp/dwell time settings are not an issue. 

I have a Ricoh SG 3110DN printer with Sawgrass sublimation inks. Conde tech support assisted, via remote access into my computer, in setting up and installing the ICC profile, etc., so I assume this has all been done correctly.

Any help will be greatly appreciated - I'm frustrated with wasting paper, ink, and fabric.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

What color are you printing onto?


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Always printing on to white or very light silver. My lycra/spandex fabrics generally have a slight "sheen" (such as the mystique fabric with metallic dots), but some are just "plain" lycra/spandex.


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

It sounds like your ICC profiles are put of balance. I by far am no expert. I would contact where you bought the system from.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Sstraley01 said:


> It sounds like your ICC profiles are put of balance. I by far am no expert. I would contact where you bought the system from.


Ok, thank you.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Go back to your image file and check your colors. Are they RGB or CMYK. ?
When I get a greenish black its cuz Corel for some reason reverted back to CMYK colors instead of RGB colors.

I have printed on shirts that were poly/lycra from Hollowaymix and no color issues per se.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Does it make a difference of I'm not using Corel or Adobe as my design software? I'm actually printing directly from Silhouette Design software.


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## tippy (May 27, 2014)

When you select the printer, are you choosing the Ricoh or the Powerdriver? You should use the PowerDriver


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm not really sure. Conde tech support installed everything for me remotely, and I just select the printer he told me, but it is labeled "Ricoh" something. Am I to assume that it was done correctly by tech support, or do I need to check in to the power driver issue?


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

I have a silhouette and and I don't print direct from the software. I'm assuming you are doing so because you need the registration marks on a print and cut. Obviously the Design software doesn't allow for color control. I don't use the power driver because it interferes with another software I use called Printer Jockey. 

You can print to a PDF file and open that in Photoshop. As long as the document in photoshop is the same size as the document in the design software, everything should work with the registration marks. 

Try it on something cheap like card stock until you perfect the process before trying it on material!


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

You color shift to brown is because your temp is to high over 400F and or your dwell time is longer than 40 seconds. You are over cooking the ink.
You have chosen the hardest most expensive fabric to learn on . Go to Joanns Fabric and buy some cheap polyester to learn on and use a 50% off coupon to buy the fabric.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

tippy said:


> When you select the printer, are you choosing the Ricoh or the Powerdriver? You should use the PowerDriver


Not really. You get more control with the ICC profile. Or at least you use to when I first got my Ricoh.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

TB2 said:


> Does it make a difference of I'm not using Corel or Adobe as my design software? I'm actually printing directly from Silhouette Design software.


Very well could. Does it have color managment capability ? I have it but never used it other than a few test cuts with my craft robo.

If you don't have Corel or Adobe you can d/l Inkscape and / or Gimp.
Opensource programs that do what Corel and Adobe Photoshop do.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Thank you, that's very helpful!! I didn't realize that the Silhouette software didn't allow for color control - and when I told tech support that I was printing directly from Silhouette, he didn't express any concern. I don't know anything about Photoshop, but I'll see if I can figure it out. Thanks again!


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

freebird1963 said:


> Very well could. Does it have color managment capability ? I have it but never used it other than a few test cuts with my craft robo.
> 
> If you don't have Corel or Adobe you can d/l Inkscape and / or Gimp.
> Opensource programs that do what Corel and Adobe Photoshop do.


 Thanks - I'll look into these programs. Since I don't know anything about any of them, I hate to spend a ton of money on a program I might not be able to figure out. (Not super tech-savvy here, in case you couldn't tell.)


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

skdave said:


> You color shift to brown is because your temp is to high over 400F and or your dwell time is longer than 40 seconds. You are over cooking the ink.
> You have chosen the hardest most expensive fabric to learn on . Go to Joanns Fabric and buy some cheap polyester to learn on and use a 50% off coupon to buy the fabric.


 I had no idea that lycra/spandex would be more difficult! And, that's interesting about the time and temp - I WAS at about 400 but for 60 seconds (based upon another suggestion). I'll definitely scale back - I assumed the longer time would help my transfer come out "darker", so I kept upping my time.

So many variables to figure out! I appreciate the suggestion.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

No question that is the issue. Let us know.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

So I tried again... I purchased poly satin from Joann (is that better?), I lowered my dwell/temp to 45 seconds and 350, and I downloaded Inkscape and printed from there. Black is STILL grey and the picture is slightly more visible but still largely faded. Gah!


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

TB2 said:


> Hi, All - I'm a green newbie when it comes to dye sublimation (I've had my printer for a whopping week now)... To date, my experience has been dismal, and my Google searches led me to you all for assistance.
> 
> I am having trouble getting my black color come out BLACK (it transfers brownish, grey, and purple), and my other colors are washed out, faded, and not vibrant. I'm using various types of Lycra/Spandex as my substrate. Given my extensive research, I *believe* that my heat press temp/dwell time settings are not an issue.
> 
> ...


If your black is Brownish it is to much heat and or to much time. If it is gray it is the profile.

350 F is not enough Try 385F


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

I would say the black is more gray than brown. I guess I'll call Conde tech support again and make sure I have the correct drivers and ICC profiles installed.


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## tippy (May 27, 2014)

What image are you using for your test prints? Is it a colour chart? If not, perhaps what you think is black actually is a grey.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Again 350F is not hot enough.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Talked to Conde tech support today - he actually deleted the Sawgrass Powerdriver that I installed this morning, said I didn't need it with the Conde driver and ICC profile that he previously installed for me. He essentially didn't do anything else. I tried again - this time at 400 for 60 seconds, it was faded so I stuck in back in for another 30 seconds. It's a bit brighter, but still not satisfactory at all. Essentially, a day spent troubleshooting, testing, and googling, all to no avail. If I could return the printer at this point, I probably would, as it feels helpless!


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

skdave said:


> Again 350F is not hot enough.


skdave said it twice and I'll chime in and repeat ....And again 350F is not enough...I did this one yesterday....400 for 40 secs. On a Poly/spandex 80/20 blend swimsuit. Yes the fabric was green to begin with, this was a test print....just sublimated black and red on top.....


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

But 400 for 90 seconds (which I did today) still didn't do the trick. The suit looks excellent, by the way! I'd be thrilled with results like that. NO WAY my colors are vibrant enough to even show up on green fabric!


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

What paper are you using? Where did you get it? and silly question but it needs to be asked, are you printing on the correct side? 

I bought some poly satin from Joannes. It was actually the third thing I sublimated after some hard surface tests and it came out awesome. Not knowing what settings to use for material, I just used the vapor basic t-shirt settings (385 for 30 seconds) I found on Coastal. I use an Epson 1400 and Chinese inks. I use Image Right from Coastal. I print from Photoshop CS4 with no power driver and no color profile. I have had no problems with blacks. My blues come out a bit dark but I just correct for that when needed. I know my press pressure is too high and it still comes out awesome. For future presses on satin I will probably go a little longer based on what I've read and learned from my experience. I have only been doing this for a few weeks and have had incredible results.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Ok
Here is what we can do. Email me your address and Monday I will mail you some Transfers to Press.
This way you will find out if it is the press or your transfers, ok.
[email protected]


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Email sent - genious idea, Dave! Thank you!


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Did Conde setup the ICC profiles for Inkscape ? or just put them on the system.? The profiles need to be in the proper directory.

Then the program has to be setup to use them. Just putting them on the computer in a folder doesn't work.

Google setting up Inkscape with ICC profiles. Or download the 30 day trial of Coreldraw or find a cheap copy on ebay. 

As for the paper if you got it from Conde and its the SPP (DyeTrans) paper there's a bright white side and a yellowish or tan-ish side. Print on the white side. If your really not sure go to a office store a buy double sided Epson Matte paper and try that. 

As for Time and Temp. For the most part anything from 380F and up and 40-60 seconds will work. If you have a teflon sheet on the top platen or on top of your transfer/substrate then turn the temp up 10-20 degrees more. The teflon will lower the heat going to the substrate. 

From the sounds of it its not your time/temp but your color management and possibly the way your artwork is setup

Why not upload the image your printing and lets see how its setup.?


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

skdave said:


> You color shift to brown is because your temp is to high over 400F and or your dwell time is longer than 40 seconds. You are over cooking the ink.


Agree Dave, 
The mystique fabric are usually the combination of metallic core spun yarns those are over heating and burning the dye components of ink.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

freebird1963 said:


> Did Conde setup the ICC profiles for Inkscape ? or just put them on the system.? The profiles need to be in the proper directory.
> 
> Then the program has to be setup to use them. Just putting them on the computer in a folder doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thoughts, Freebird!

My ICC profiles are presumably not set up FOR/WITHIN Inkscape – when Conde first installed for me, I was printing directly from Silhouette. I’ve since uploaded Inkscape, and Conde didn’t make any changes to my profiles or settings yesterday. Perhaps this is the problem??

I'm covered on the paper; I purchased directly from Conde (it was a package deal with the printer, inks, etc.), and it has writing/logos on the side that I'm not supposed to print to.

Given your recommended time/temp settings, I should be ok there, too - based upon advice I've received here, I've changed to 400 for 60 seconds, so even with the Teflon sheet over the top, it sounds like I'm hot enough/long enough.

I think the problem is likely my color profile settings. I'll see if I can google a solution to that today.

Again, everyone, thanks for sticking with me!! I appreciate all of the help!


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

carpediemandmore said:


> Agree Dave,
> The mystique fabric are usually the combination of metallic core spun yarns those are over heating and burning the dye components of ink.


 When I get a little more experience under my belt and manage to work out all of my bugs, is it possible to sublimate onto Mystique and, if so, what time/temp would you recommend? I'd love to be able to add a little "sparkle" to my finished product.


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

TB2 said:


> When I get a little more experience under my belt and manage to work out all of my bugs, is it possible to sublimate onto Mystique and, if so, what time/temp would you recommend? I'd love to be able to add a little "sparkle" to my finished product.


Hey TB,
Attached find the complete quick ref guide for it from vapor apparel.
from my experience i usually take 180-F-240-F for 30-35 secs on core spun fabrics.

Regards


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

skdave said:


> If your black is Brownish it is to much heat and or to much time. If it is gray it is the profile.
> 
> 350 F is not enough Try 385F


 Update: Dave is going above and beyond to try to assist me in determining the problem and, with his help, I *think* I've decided that my error is in the application part of the process, and not actually in what I'm printing.

Dave printed my art and sent it to me to transfer. When I applied Dave's print to my 100% poly satin fabric (at 385 for 60 seconds), it didn't look much different than what I printed and transferred (still largely faded). It looked NOTHING like the sample that Dave printed and transferred (which was super vibrant and bright). So, Dave's print and my print transferred very similarly onto the satin fabric.

I then used Dave's print and transferred it onto Dave's fabric, and it's brighter, but still not as bright as the transfer that Dave pressed. I then used my print and transferred it onto Dave's fabric, and it looks very similar to my transfer of Dave's print onto Dave's fabric, but still slightly more faded than the transfer that Dave pressed.

So - it seems that the problem is likely (1) the fact that, perhaps, satin fabric never transfers as brightly as the fabric that Dave used??? and/or (2) that my temp and dwell time are off.

Note: I'm transferring at 385 for about 60 seconds, and I'm using a Jetpress 14 (small press). I was told by Conde that I need to compensate for the smaller press by increasing the time by 10 seconds - and, at 60 seconds, I assumed I was compensating sufficiently.

Can the satin be the problem? How high/long can I really press before doing more harm than good?

To give everyone a better idea, I've attached a photo - the bottom image is Dave's transfer, Dave's pressing, and Dave's fabric. The top image is Dave's transfer, my pressing, and my fabric. 

Thanks, Dave, for all of your help! I really appreciate everyone's suggestions - I really want this to work for me!


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

I know pictures don't always transfer the intent well but the top image just doesn't look like satin to me. It looks more like what my grandmother's polyester pant suit would be made of.


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## pk401 (Jul 20, 2014)

How is your pressure? That can impact color and vibrancy, too.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

TB2 said:


> Update: Dave is going above and beyond to try to assist me in determining the problem and, with his help, I *think* I've decided that my error is in the application part of the process, and not actually in what I'm printing.
> 
> Dave printed my art and sent it to me to transfer. When I applied Dave's print to my 100% poly satin fabric (at 385 for 60 seconds), it didn't look much different than what I printed and transferred (still largely faded). It looked NOTHING like the sample that Dave printed and transferred (which was super vibrant and bright). So, Dave's print and my print transferred very similarly onto the satin fabric.
> 
> ...


Which of my 3 transfers did you use? call me


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

I'll admit that I lightened the pressure. It was REALLY difficult for me to close, so I loosened it. I didn't really think that would make that much of a difference. I'll tighten it back up some.


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## TB2 (Mar 30, 2015)

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for helping! With all of your suggestions and assistance, and with the patience of Andy (Conde tech support manager), I've finally done all the tweaking and fine tuning necessary to get a great quality transfer. I really appreciate all your thoughts! (And a BIG thanks to Dave - without your transfers to test out, I wouldn't have been able to give Andy the information he needed to fix my settings.)


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

They look great, glad you got it figured out.


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## calhtech (Feb 4, 2012)

TB2 said:


> Does it make a difference of I'm not using Corel or Adobe as my design software? I'm actually printing directly from Silhouette Design software.



Why would you need to print from Silhouette. You should not be needing reg marks to print sublimation as only the inks transfer unless I'm missing something here.
Calhtech>


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## calhtech (Feb 4, 2012)

TB2 said:


> Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for helping! With all of your suggestions and assistance, and with the patience of Andy (Conde tech support manager), I've finally done all the tweaking and fine tuning necessary to get a great quality transfer. I really appreciate all your thoughts! (And a BIG thanks to Dave - without your transfers to test out, I wouldn't have been able to give Andy the information he needed to fix my settings.)


Glad you got it. They look good!

Calhtech>


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