# I really need help with spending my money wisely, please help?



## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

Hello everyone, 

My name is Andrew Castro, I am the CEO and founder of Ability Fight Wear. I have recently started Ability Fight Wear with the hopes that it can be my career and main income. You can check out the website at Ability Fight Wear. (Not totally finished, you can see my shirts there but the pictures and such a mock up placeholders)

Anyways, I have spend about $1000 already on my business in terms of the website, designs, domain, business registration and some other fees. 

I have just received a $5000 loan from my grandmother and I need to use that money to launch my line and hopefully make that money back. 

Here is some things you should know.

I am ordering my shirts from a company here in Canada (Can't say where because I am going to list prices) and the shirts are about $3.50 each wholesale. I am also opening an account with Alstyle and I hope there prices are around there too. 

It costs me anywhere between $200-$350 per t-shirt design. (Some of you may think that is high but I pay for the quality of the art, I would rather pay high prices for top quality then low for low quality and then have a bad reputation)

So right now I have 3 main designs. 2 created designs and one is just my logo on the front and back, I figured I could cut some costs because I am happy with my logo and companies like DC and Nike are very successful with that.

I am going to need another 2-3 designs. So that could run me anywhere between $400-$600 ($200 per) or $600-$900 ($300 per).

The printing of the shirts are $15 per color for set up and then anywhere up to $3 per shirt.

I am looking now around $7 per shirt for me to make. 

So I need to order a certain amount of shirts to fit my $5000 budget. Quick math would suggest that 400 shirts at $7 each is about $2800 but I am just using 400 as a random number. I don't know if I can even sell 400 shirts because I am virtually unknown and being that my product fits a niche market I can't just sell them at random local events. Also, I do not need to worry about shipping costs because I am picking up the shirts, driving them to the printer and picking them up again.

Can anyone think of any other costs I will need to calculate? 

All help is appreciated.

Andrew Castro


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## AliDec (Sep 26, 2010)

Fuel costs should be considered.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Make sure you save money for marketing and sales. It costs money to sell shirts. Do you have a sales and distribution plan?


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> Make sure you save money for marketing and sales. It costs money to sell shirts. Do you have a sales and distribution plan?


I have too many ideas to have a solid plan, do you suggest anything?

Also, fuel costs wont matter, its not a long drive.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Intermission said:


> I have too many ideas to have a solid plan, do you suggest anything?


Yeah, I suggest you stop thinking of new ideas and start learning how to execute the ideas you already have.

Start with this...
Where do you expect to sell your shirts?
How do you expect consumers to know who you are and where to find your products?

I started this thread a few months ago about distribution. Maybe it'll help...
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/general-t-shirt-selling-discussion/t139525.html


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> Yeah, I suggest you stop thinking of new ideas and start learning how to execute the ideas you already have.
> 
> Start with this...
> Where do you expect to sell your shirts?
> ...


Yes, I have a website but after reading your other thread it seems your suggesting I try getting into retail stores rather then just selling online?

Also, I believe I mentioned this before but your name leads me to believe you are in the same niche market as I am, the MMA market. Are you just a fan or am I right? If I am would you mind giving me some pointers?


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## DOOOM (Apr 20, 2011)

You are off to a better start than many! It's time to start up a Facebook, Twitter and Blog. Begin to get people hyped about your brand. Visit a few fight clubs in your local area, or see about opening a stall at a convention tailored to your market. Give away stickers, word of mouth etc. 

It would seem that you pretty much have all of the costs calculated already.

Good luck!


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## Alan Buffington (Oct 27, 2010)

I would not produce a bunch of shirts and hope that they will sell. Focus on selling more than anything. Develop as many paths as you can to sell. Sourcing the printed shirts is easy, take your best 3-6 designs sample only 24 of them and create a line that works together. Printing a blank shirt turns it into a rag, its only valuable if there is demand for it. Promoting your brand, and as mentioned social marketing, and your sweat equity are more important than anything. Consider looking for people who sell other lines of products in your area to carry your brand, offer strong commissions, 15-20%, network with proven sales groups, reps in your niche market. Save your money for sales, work from samples and a line of clothing, don't produce anything in quantity until it is sold. Once you have enough orders to cover your costs, then and only then can you afford to print more shirts for inventory that I call pure speculation. It's like a screen printer printing a couple hundred shirts for a local bar chain only to find out they sold only 24. You don't want to be on that side of the business and eat the printed goods You want to find locations, other sales pros, gyms, sporting goods stores, up and coming fighters to outfit, point of purchase sales at events. Sometimes you can get free sales space designing a shirt for an event and then also sell your line along side of it. Explore sales, promotion and marketing. If it doesn't sell it's a rag, if it sells it's fashion.

Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Intermission said:


> Yes, I have a website but after reading your other thread it seems your suggesting I try getting into retail stores rather then just selling online?


Yes, selling through retail stores can be a great thing. But it also presents its own challenges too.

More than anything, the thread is to encourage startup brands to think beyond their own website. It's important to have your product available to consumers. Maybe it's retail stores, or at an event, or selling on the street, or at a local bar, etc.



Intermission said:


> Also, I believe I mentioned this before but your name leads me to believe you are in the same niche market as I am, the MMA market. Are you just a fan or am I right? If I am would you mind giving me some pointers?


Yes, I've been in the MMA niche. I sold shirts at local events for a while. But I moved from PA (where MMA is sanctioned) to NY (where MMA is not sanctioned). So there just aren't enough local events around here to make any real money. And the event promoters charge WAY too much.


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Having samples is a great thing to get you started.

Develop a color scheme of shirts
Design A comes in White, Red and Black
Take your design and have them printed DTG as a sample
Cut the label out of the shirts ie Gildan, Lofteez etc
Contact your targeted demographics and take prelim orders.

DO NOT PRINT a large order in advance before you have orders. I made this mistake once before and I had to stop my line because I ran out of money!! 

I had orders and I have a 6 piece minimum per size per color. The store sold the heck out of red but didn't sell much of the other colors. Soooooooo.. they ordered 2 dozen of red.. Guess what happened? I spent all my money on producing shirts in advance. Most T-shirt lines only last 3 years. There are a couple guys on the forum that have sample packs for DTG. Don't look at how much you can make but look at what you can lose.


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Andrew:

T-shirt lines come and go constantly. What sets the successful ones apart from the others is usually planning and organization.

You need to write a business plan now. Here's a link that you can download some free help - Free Sample Business Plans and Business Plan Software — Bplans

The value of writing a business plan is that it is going to offer you a roadmap or guide to make decisions as you move forward. Also, I'd find a successful business person that you trust and make them your mentor...it doesn't have to be in the apparel industry. A mentor can give you advice and "how I did it" tips on running a business.

Remember, if you are really in it for the long haul you need to make some key decisions and stick to them. For instance, if you want shirts in retail stores you can't really offer them online as you are undercutting your retail store market. You have to decide which side of the fence you want to be on and then move in that direction.

Good luck,

-M


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## abmcdan (Sep 14, 2007)

It's very tough to guess correctly what designs, colors and styles will be popular before you get going.

Look into print on demand or find a screen printer with a quick turnaround. With the screen printing you could wait until you sell at least 1 before sending to print. You might end up with some extra shirts still but this way if you sell none you're not out anything.

We are 3 years into selling online and sell thousands of shirt and I'm still unwilling to print more than 12 - 24 pieces of any new unproven design.

As people have said before.. use the bulk of your efforts and money on selling and then produce the stuff as needed.

Hope this helps,
Andy


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## EnMartian (Feb 14, 2008)

You're further than some people when it comes to marketing and advertising as you already know who your target market is. The next step is to figure out where they go online, since you seem to be intending to sell through a website. 

If you do start a Twitter or Facebook account, make sure you're smart about who you follow. Don't follow random people, follow or friend people who have the same interests as those to whom you're trying to sell. Always keep in mind who it is that your message should be reaching and make sure you're following and friending people in that group. An account that is random assembled won't do much for your business. A targeted account can be a great help. 

Also, when you get these accounts set up, don't forget to be part of the community. If all you do is talk about your site and your specials and your products, you'll bore or annoy people really quickly. Instead, help promote other people, simply to help. Talk about subjects of interest to your target group. Share a little bit about yourself. Make connections and eventually the connections will turn to customers.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

Wow, thank you for all the very informative suggestions everyone! 

I have been doing a lot of research as of late about getting my shirts into retail stores and I am starting to think a percentage of my $5000 should go to attractive and effective line sheets to send out, am I right?

Also, thank you for all the suggestions on the quantity of shirts. Today I was approved for an American Apparel wholesale account and I think I may have to go with them just because of all the amazing things I have heard about them.

I already have a twitter account that I am very active on and I talk back and forth with very popular UFC fighters very often, I think twitter and facebook may be a big source of my income in terms of marketing and such. 

I guess my questions at this point are:

-Should I be investing money into producing line sheets and look sheets? (I have a good understanding of what each of them are and their purpose)

-How can I avoid telling retailers that I am new? I have heard many occasions that people are rejected orders because of how new their line/product is.


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## J Alexander (Apr 12, 2011)

Intermission said:


> -How can I avoid telling retailers that I am new? I have heard many occasions that people are rejected orders because of how new their line/product is.


My advice for this question is...don't lie. And, they're definitely going to ask you what type of following you have. And, they don't mean how many follow backs you get on Twitter either. You can get a REALLY good sales person (which is an additional cost) if you don't want to speak a BIG game and see if they can develop some leads for you. Try looking into consignment. Helps a lot with up and coming brands and smaller retailers. Also a nice way to develop a following and a business relationship


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## sportshypnotist (May 19, 2011)

I have a sports web site that I would be willing to give you some space to advertise in exchange for a shirt. Having your products actually may get me more clients also. I also have a Facebook page that I can link you. I use to be in the screen business 25 years ago and now will be getting back into the Heat Transfer etc. part of it again so that I can sell my own sports wear instead of farming it out. The site is United States Sports Hypnosis Ce I do have a link there for my boxing page. The ads that are there operate the same way.


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

Once you sell your shirts to a retailer, how do they price so you don't undercut each other? The same price? Then your internet store MIGHT lose business? You will get more business and advertisement from the retail store at a cost per shirt, but isn't it actually better in the long run, maybe?

So if it costs $6 to make a shirt, retail buys for 8, resells for 12.
I've heard production cost x 2 = Wholesale cost
Wholesale cost x 2 = Retail cost

But that seems a little high...


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## abmcdan (Sep 14, 2007)

I think people worry too much about pricing differences. I have a competitor that buys our shirts wholesale then retails them for $2 more than we do. We both have well known websites in our industry but yet he sells a good amount of them. Some people do shop around but most don't to the level everyone assumes. Especially when you are talking the difference between buying in a store and online. If you're in a store shopping and see a $20 tee you really want would you put it back and say "But I can get this online for $18".

Now if your brand becomes huge nationwide and the pricing gap becomes greater than a few dollars there might be an issue.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ishredbanez said:


> Once you sell your shirts to a retailer, how do they price so you don't undercut each other?


You can give the store a suggested retail price. But most will use their own markup formula based on what works for them in their market. Some stores mark it up double, some triple and some even more if they are in big markets with celebrity clientele.



ishredbanez said:


> The same price?


You cannot force a store to sell at a certain price. That could be considered price fixing, which is illegal.



ishredbanez said:


> Then your internet store MIGHT lose business? You will get more business and advertisement from the retail store at a cost per shirt, but isn't it actually better in the long run, maybe?


In all likelihood, the retail store has far more selling power than your website does. By selling power, I mean traffic, loyal consumers and overall sales volume and potential.

So the store is easily going to sell more shirts at a higher price point than your website. If anything, your website will be considered a discount in comparison to the price in a retail store.

If you can generate enough volume by selling direct to consumer, then by all means, go that route. But it's going to cost money to acquire enough customers to start making real money. The value in selling wholesale is that retailers already have the consumer base and they have the ability to buy in bulk volume. It's just going to take time to establish a demand for your product so that retailers are willing to take on high volume inventory.



ishredbanez said:


> So if it costs $6 to make a shirt, retail buys for 8, resells for 12.
> I've heard production cost x 2 = Wholesale cost
> Wholesale cost x 2 = Retail cost
> 
> But that seems a little high...


It seems high because the $6 cost to produce is high. That number is probably based on low volume. But what are your costs to produce 5000 shirts? Probably lower than $6. That's what it takes to compete in the retail market.


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> You can give the store a suggested retail price. But most will use their own markup formula based on what works for them in their market. Some stores mark it up double, some triple and some even more if they are in big markets with celebrity clientele.
> 
> 
> You cannot force a store to sell at a certain price. That could be considered price fixing, which is illegal.
> ...


So it sounds like getting it sold in retail is the next best thing compared to opening your own retail store (if that, even...)

So online only isn't really a great way to go, unless you can get the big customer base.
I checked Family Christian Stores in my area (since we are coming out with a contemporary/modern Christian clothing line) and they don't do clothing consignment.
I don't know where else would be able to do this that would want to take our shirts while having the target market we want/the youth. Other places (few and far between that I know of)...


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ishredbanez said:


> So it sounds like getting it sold in retail is the next best thing compared to opening your own retail store (if that, even...)


Selling retail and selling wholesale are different sports. It's hard to say which is better, it depends on your skills and goals.

Retail has bigger profit margins, but has much more overhead and takes more time.

What do you feel you are better at...
Making the product and establishing relationships with stores?
Or setting up your own shop, stocking inventory and establishing relationships with consumers?



ishredbanez said:


> I don't know where else would be able to do this that would want to take our shirts while having the target market we want/the youth. Other places (few and far between that I know of)...


Try selling at local events.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

So basically some of this money should go towards creating a line sheet to send out to retailers?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Intermission said:


> So basically some of this money should go towards creating a line sheet to send out to retailers?


Line sheets are good. But retailers will want to see physical samples too. It's unlikely a retailer would place an order before seeing actual samples.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> Line sheets are good. But retailers will want to see physical samples too. It's unlikely a retailer would place an order before seeing actual samples.


How likely is it that they will request net 30/60/90 terms?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Intermission said:


> How likely is it that they will request net 30/60/90 terms?


Bigger retailers will want terms. Smaller retailers will probably pay on delivery. Ask for a deposit... some will agree, some won't.


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> Bigger retailers will want terms. Smaller retailers will probably pay on delivery. Ask for a deposit... some will agree, some won't.


Why would you really need a deposit, though? If they don't agree to it, you can still go through with it, yes? Meaning it won't be too bad if you do, its just so you can make sure they will go through with it? Or something...


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

If you are filling the order with existing inventory, the deposit gives you immediate cash flow since you are shipping product out the door.

If you are filling the order with a new production run, the deposit helps fund the production until you get the balance of the payment.

It's also good to get a deposit so it guarantees you partial payment in case they decide to stiff you.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

So for a new brand would it be best to avoid large retailers or would it be good to shoot for the stars right away?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Do you have the resources to fulfill large orders?


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

It depends on how LARGE the order is really... I have enough resources to fill about up to 1000 shirt order.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Then I would advise to stay within those means. Large retail chains can easily purchase over 10,000 units for dozens, even hundreds, of stores. So shooting for the stars probably isn't the best right now. But you have the resources to handle smaller stores.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

I guess my last question would be could you or anyone point me in the direction of retail stores that carry similar clothing in USA? 

I live in Canada so I know a bunch but I would like some American options.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Check the websites of similar brands. They usually list the retail stores that carry their product. You can then contact those stores.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> Check the websites of similar brands. They usually list the retail stores that carry their product. You can then contact those stores.


Yeah, your right. Thank you so much for all the help recently, you don't know how much I appreciate it.


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

So if we are having a company print ours and a retail store says they want, say, 500, we could get a deposit (and somehow be reputable to the store). Then have the company make those ASAP


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

ishredbanez said:


> So if we are having a company print ours and a retail store says they want, say, 500, we could get a deposit (and somehow be reputable to the store). Then have the company make those ASAP


That is what I got from it as well. Since a wholesale price is usually double what you actually pay if you ask for a 50% deposit then you could actually pay for the order with the deposit.

Just a thought.


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

But how could they trust you if you get the money from them and then they think you could just run off with it? I guess leaving info with them or some kind of collateral, whatever that would be?

So that would definitely mean ordering in bulk then


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

ishredbanez said:


> But how could they trust you if you get the money from them and then they think you could just run off with it? I guess leaving info with them or some kind of collateral, whatever that would be?
> 
> So that would definitely mean ordering in bulk then


Contracts are why they would trust you


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

Intermission said:


> Contracts are why they would trust you


I'm just wondering; what type of agreement would you... Agree to to show them you are serious?

I.E. "if we don't pull through, then you get your deposit back... If we are shady and disappear from the face of the Earth, here's our address so come visit us!"


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ishredbanez said:


> I'm just wondering; what type of agreement would you... Agree to to show them you are serious?


It could be as simple as a purchase order. Or it could be more detailed that outlines everyone's responsibilities.

Either way, neither of you will probably do business with the other without a signed contract. They want the goods, you want the money. But as a supplier, the burden is on you. If you don't deliver by the ship date, you would be legally obligated to return the deposit. If you don't they could sue.


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> It could be as simple as a purchase order. Or it could be more detailed that outlines everyone's responsibilities.
> 
> Either way, neither of you will probably do business with the other without a signed contract. They want the goods, you want the money. But as a supplier, the burden is on you. If you don't deliver by the ship date, you would be legally obligated to return the deposit. If you don't they could sue.


heh yeah, I don't think we are gonna worry about retail juuuust yet... Well, I guess we could, but would need a DBA/LLC first (and there are 2/3 of us so we can/can't have a DBA...?)


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ishredbanez said:


> heh yeah, I don't think we are gonna worry about retail juuuust yet... Well, I guess we could, but would need a DBA/LLC first


So what type of business are you currently operating that doesn't require a business registration?



ishredbanez said:


> (and there are 2/3 of us so we can/can't have a DBA...?)


Usually DBA's are for sole proprietorships. But it may vary by state. So check your state government website. If you have a partnership, can't you register an LLC?


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## ishredbanez (May 14, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> So what type of business are you currently operating that doesn't require a business registration?
> 
> 
> Usually DBA's are for sole proprietorships. But it may vary by state. So check your state government website. If you have a partnership, can't you register an LLC?


Eventually yeah, but we are just getting up and off the ground... We had a run of shirts a couple years ago, but it didn't really go anywhere. Right now, we are in the planning phases.
I figure getting official a little bit after it starts then having everything from then on out go for taxes I guess. That's not bad I suppose.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

I think my best bet atm would be to order about 300 shirts. Assuming it costs me $9 a piece it will run me around $3000 (including S&H) 

I need to do this for a few reasons...

1) I need samples to send out before I can even try retailing
2) I need samples to use for photoshoots/promotional things.
3) If I only order minimum quantity the printing prices are going to be INSANE...


At about 300 shirts I can get fair screen printing prices while keeping inventory fairly low. Is this reasonable or would that run my inventory at too high of a number?


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Intermission:

If it were me, I'd order about 36 shirts to start. Get these for your samples, promos etc. Put your toe in the water? Are they flying out the door? Great. Order the rest. Nobody wants them? Great...you just didn't blow $3k on them too.

Also, you can always mocks stuff up on paper prior to selling anything. Do some market research before you print.

My 2 cents

-M


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

AtkinsonConsult said:


> Intermission:
> 
> If it were me, I'd order about 36 shirts to start. Get these for your samples, promos etc. Put your toe in the water? Are they flying out the door? Great. Order the rest. Nobody wants them? Great...you just didn't blow $3k on them too.
> 
> ...


Thank you... I feel your right however, ordering only 36 shirts will just hurt me more then help me. The price per shirt would be MUST more then if I ordered 300. 

Ideas?


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Get some quotes. You are over thinking it. Be honest with your printer about your plans. Trust me, they've heard it all before, but if you approach them with an honest and thoughtful plan maybe they will cut you a break and give you a cheaper price for the 36 pieces.

Also, don't be scared to go 150 - 200 miles away for a printer. Shipping 36 pieces is going to be cheap.

-M


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

AtkinsonConsult said:


> Get some quotes. You are over thinking it. Be honest with your printer about your plans. Trust me, they've heard it all before, but if you approach them with an honest and thoughtful plan maybe they will cut you a break and give you a cheaper price for the 36 pieces.
> 
> Also, don't be scared to go 150 - 200 miles away for a printer. Shipping 36 pieces is going to be cheap.
> 
> -M


At the same time it isn't only printing. It is also the shirts. I plan on printing about 4-5 different designs and in order to get somewhat decent pricing I need to order 12 per color per size.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

It seems like you've got it all figured out on how to get 300 shirts in your inventory. How do you then plan to sell them? And what is your retail price? How long do you think it will take to sell through 300 shirts? How much do you think it will cost to sell through 300 shirts?


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> It seems like you've got it all figured out on how to get 300 shirts in your inventory. How do you then plan to sell them? And what is your retail price? How long do you think it will take to sell through 300 shirts? How much do you think it will cost to sell through 300 shirts?


On my website and HOPEFULLY in retail stores. I found a bunch of small shops within an hour drive from me that I will try my hardest to get into.

My retail price varies depending on the shirt but anywhere between $25 - $35 each. Which would mean a return of anywhere between $7500 - $10500. 

I should cost an extra few hundred for facebook ads and such but that can all fit in my budget luckily. 

As for how long... that really isn't something I can predict, hopefully not long but without having sold any I don't know if my product is in demand by the general public other then the people I have showed who like my designs a lot.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

The $7500-$10500 return is based on selling all 300 shirts at your retail price point.

But you need to subtract anything you give away as samples, promos, sponsorships, etc. Anything sold at wholesale will be at lower profit margins, so you need to subtract that as well. And you will need $3000 to produce a second run of shirts.

So once you take all of that into consideration, you are left with a smaller number. That number is your cash flow which can be used for marketing or can be put back into the business to grow and become sustainable.

The reason why I asked how long you expect it to take to sell 300 shirts was to see what kind of cash you flow you are expecting. To sell the shirts in 3 months would be great. But if your money is tied up for a year trying to sell 300 shirts, you're going to find yourself digging into your pockets quite often. And that's a recipe for disaster.

If you're confident you can move shirts and create cash flow, then you are ready to invest $3000. If not, then Marshall's advice of a smaller print run is quite valid. Personally, I think your costs are way too high and should get them down before you launch.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> The $7500-$10500 return is based on selling all 300 shirts at your retail price point.
> 
> But you need to subtract anything you give away as samples, promos, sponsorships, etc. Anything sold at wholesale will be at lower profit margins, so you need to subtract that as well. And you will need $3000 to produce a second run of shirts.
> 
> ...


How is that possible? I can get them low, assuming I order a lot of shirts. If not then yea my prices are a bit high. This is based on 3 one color prints per shirt (Front, small on back, and tag) printed on AA 2001 tee's. It is about $1 per location at 100 units. That is about $3... I can't post AA's wholesale price but you can do the math. 

I don't understand how I can get that any lower...


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Online and at retail? Good luck. I think you will find that a store is not going to like competing with their supplier for the same item. 

Also, you don't need to print shirts to find out if the store is interested in the design. You can e-mail them the images or get an appointment with their buyer and show them sell sheets. It's a lot easier knowing the exact number of what to print based on pre-sold orders than just winging it. Don't be so anxious to get your shirts printed. I think you need a lot of market research and also communication with your prospective buyers.

Just because you build a website doesn't mean that people are going to flock to the site and buy anything. You could be sitting on a pile of shirts if you have preprinted too much inventory.

Finally, MMA apparel is just the latest fad. It's going to die out and probably sooner than you think. That's the reality of t-shirts. How long ago was Ed Hardy tattoo designs the killer idea? Now you can buy them at Costco for $6. They no longer have that same cache. Be prepared to adapt and grow with the market. You also don't have to have amazingly high production costs to be successful. Look at Lucky brand for instance. Most of their designs are one to three colors, one location discharge. Men's T-Shirts - Lucky Brand Jeans


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

AtkinsonConsult said:


> Online and at retail? Good luck. I think you will find that a store is not going to like competing with their supplier for the same item.
> 
> Also, you don't need to print shirts to find out if the store is interested in the design. You can e-mail them the images or get an appointment with their buyer and show them sell sheets. It's a lot easier knowing the exact number of what to print based on pre-sold orders than just winging it. Don't be so anxious to get your shirts printed. I think you need a lot of market research and also communication with your prospective buyers.
> 
> ...


I couldn't care less if MMA is just a fad. It isn't for me... I am a HUGE MMA fan, I am not in it to expose the market I am in it because I want to be involved in the MMA community for the rest of my life and make a living off of it.

As for the pre-ordering thing, I don't want people to request a sample and it would be very unprofessional of me to say I have none.


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Hey, that's why you only print a few of the design at a time. 

And retail buyers order off of sell sheets all the time. It's common practice. Sign yourself up and go the Magic show in Vegas this August and meet everyone and see. People understand design lines starting out, and not investing too much precious capital at the beginning. Have 4 or 5 designs? Don't print them all...print samples of the strongest one only to show quality, hand, garment details, etc. T-shirt buyers know everything already. They've seen an AA blank before....all they are concerned with is going to be the hand, registration, if you printed or sewed your brand label in straight on the neck, and if you added the hangtag with the right barcode on it. And the most important thing of all - price point.

Let me ask you this... Have you made any contacts with store buyers yet? Have you shown them your ideas and received their feedback? If not, I'd do that first....before printing anything of any quantity. You need that information and communication to comprehend what they are looking for and need.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

Hand tags is one thing that I still haven't come across. Where can I get high quality hand tags? Also, I know I have to register each shirt to get a bar code for it right?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Intermission said:


> How is that possible? I can get them low, assuming I order a lot of shirts. If not then yea my prices are a bit high. This is based on 3 one color prints per shirt (Front, small on back, and tag) printed on AA 2001 tee's. It is about $1 per location at 100 units. That is about $3... I can't post AA's wholesale price but you can do the math.
> 
> I don't understand how I can get that any lower...


You are paying a premium on AA tees. Don't use them at that price. There are plenty of good alternatives. Try JS Apparel or Royal Apparel. Quality is just as good as AA and the prices are better.

You don't need 3 print locations. Just print the front design to get your stuff out there and see if they sell. But if you really want to add more branding, choose between the back print and tag. You don't need both.

You can easily get your costs down to a competitive level. Don't try so hard to produce the perfect product right now. Get your stuff out there, see if they sell, create some cash flow and grow from there. You can always increase your quality, production costs and prices down the line.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Intermission said:


> I couldn't care less if MMA is just a fad. It isn't for me... I am a HUGE MMA fan


You misread Marshall's comment. He didn't say MMA is a fad. He said *MMA apparel* is a fad. And he's right. The MMA apparel fad has come and gone. Read up on UFC sponsorships and you will understand. This niche market has been gobbled up by Dana White. There are only a handful of MMA niche apparel companies that are succeeding.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't have access to those in Canada. By the time I pay S&H, border fees, brokerage fees and taxes I might as well have just gotten it from AA.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

I've used Canadian suppliers without much added fees. Maybe it's different the other way around. Are there any other Canadian suppliers you can work with? Jerico is one that comes to mind.

Oh and congrats on the Thrashers move to Winnipeg. They deserve a team there. I just hope they become the Jets and not some stupid new name. Too bad the Bruins are gonna beat the Canucks, though. LOL.


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## Intermission (Mar 28, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> I've used Canadian suppliers without much added fees. Maybe it's different the other way around. Are there any other Canadian suppliers you can work with? Jerico is one that comes to mind.
> 
> Oh and congrats on the Thrashers move to Winnipeg. They deserve a team there. I just hope they become the Jets and not some stupid new name. Too bad the Bruins are gonna beat the Canucks, though. LOL.


I have used a calculator for it and its unacceptable... And Jerico is a dollar more per shirt then AA and there is less colors.. 

As for the Jets, its really nice to have another Canadian team. Quebec City is trying to get there team back now too. And I agree with the Vancouver statement. I am a Oilers fan but at the end of the day I am a Canadian


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## Grovian (May 10, 2011)

Andrew

Have you found your supplier and gotten things going yet? I was following this closely and you all just stopped  lol


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