# Can I sell shirts with this design? Legal?



## JudyBagawaffle (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi, I am wondering if it would be legal to make and sell this shirt. I hope the pic shows up. It shows a red delete key with the words "2012 Delete facebook" centered on it. I created the image for a new website ... deletefacebook2012 . I origianly posted this question in the new member section ... sorry about that, my bad.  So, what do you think? Any problem with using facebook in the design? THANKS !!


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Facebook can sue for trademark infringement. You can claim it's fair use or parody, but only a judge can decide who wins.


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## threadbirdy (Dec 4, 2010)

surely they'd just ask you to stop using it before trying to sue?
You could reword it to delete face, delete book? not sure if you can trademark the words separately..but I aint no lawyer so don't be sending me postcards from your cell block. lol


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

threadbirdy said:


> surely they'd just ask you to stop using it before trying to sue?
> You could reword it to delete face, delete book? not sure if you can trademark the words separately..but I aint no lawyer so don't be sending me postcards from your cell block. lol


No, they don't always ask you to stop before suing. Sometimes they will go straight to the lawsuit or demand for payment.


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## Ludasmith (Sep 1, 2011)

Or they'll send you a bill for their attorneys along with the cease and desist.


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## threadbirdy (Dec 4, 2010)

Ludasmith said:


> Or they'll send you a bill for their attorneys along with the cease and desist.


**** really? then don't chance it.


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## gotshirts2ink (Nov 12, 2009)

Why not use it, its not their logo. it is a font looks like arial lowercase to me
Now on the other hand if you used the F in the square box Yes they can sure you
its like saying you cant spell out your name on a shirt because someone else has your name as well
the font is free and comes with your computer you can type whatever you want out of it


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

gotshirts2ink said:


> Why not use it, its not their logo. it is a font looks like arial lowercase to me
> Now on the other hand if you used the F in the square box Yes they can sure you
> its like saying you cant spell out your name on a shirt because someone else has your name as well
> the font is free and comes with your computer you can type whatever you want out of it


"FACEBOOK" is registered as a standard character trademark for use on clothing. This means they have broad protection rights to the word FACEBOOK, not just their logo. Using the word, in any font, is infringing on their trademark and they can sue.


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## GN (Aug 1, 2011)

kimura-mma said:


> "FACEBOOK" is registered as a standard character trademark for use on clothing. This means they have broad protection rights to the word FACEBOOK, not just their logo. Using the word, in any font, is infringing on their trademark and they can sue.


Plus an easy way to discern this is to consider that the _word_ "facebook" is NOT an actual word. the words "face" and "book" are so techinically you could use those words seperated by a space or something like "delete face book 2012" (although even this would be borderline infringement so why risk it).. but once you mash them together "delete facebook 2012" then you have just copied a piece of "art" (if you will) and that is grounds for a lawsuit.


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## Ylla (May 17, 2011)

go for it.... separate face and book ("face book").


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## GN (Aug 1, 2011)

Ylla said:


> go for it.... separate face and book ("face book").


or just write to Zukerberg and ask him if it's ok for you to publish that delete button. If he says yes then your home free!


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## gotshirts2ink (Nov 12, 2009)

Thats funny you know I did a sign for a home builder in 2002 Stephen Facebook the business was Facebook Home Builders that is when facebook wasnt even started yet on the internet I also had shirts made for a softball game for him and his crew
WOW I just typed facebook tshirt in google images WOW
I think I will be make some shirts lol


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## Zenergy (Apr 14, 2011)

gotshirts2ink said:


> Thats funny you know I did a sign for a home builder in 2002 Stephen Facebook the business was Facebook Home Builders that is when facebook wasnt even started yet on the internet I also had shirts made for a softball game for him and his crew
> WOW I just typed facebook tshirt in google images WOW
> I think I will be make some shirts lol


You could totally spin that into a prior art case that would make national news. May not win, but you'd be on CNN.


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## Jmanindie93 (Apr 12, 2011)

What a country we live in. We can't even spell without having a problem with someone.


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

I love all the non lawyers giving their opinion as legal advice...ask a lawyer


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## tlpe548b (Jul 14, 2011)

mrance[USER=81172 said:


> @TH[/USER]egreeti;985240]I love all the non lawyers giving their opinion as legal advice...ask a lawyer


Way to be a ****, that's just rude, or course a lawyer is going to give you the best answer. Law is full of "grey" areas, and new precedent is set and changes all the time. 

If my neighbor has a new lawn mower that i was thinking about purchasing, of course I'm going to ask him how it works, how he likes it, before i go to the store to talk to the salesmen. The point of posting on the forums is to to get other opinions and hopefully find someone that has dealt with similar issues in the past.

And if you want to get technical, whatever a lawyer says doesn't really matter, in the end it's the judges opinion that matters, or a jury's. Lawyers are there to give you advice or to point you in the right direction, just because someone hasn't passed the bar does not mean they don't have good information.

I'm sure the guys who run t shirt hell can tell you a hell of a lot about getting sued, copyright and trademark laws, slander etc. They have been through it a lot.

These forums are full of extremely valuable information, it's ignorant for you to discredit that. I highly doubt anyone is trying pass they information on as "legal advise". Especially kimura and gn, they do everything they can to make the point clear "this is my opinion and what i know". These forums are about sharing information and helping each other, why would this not be the first place you ask your question?


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

its ignorant of you to put any stock regarding legal matters from t-shirt designers. Its opinions that can't be used . The question was ..is it LEGAL , not what do you think?, or even what is your experience?...not rude, accurate. While we are talking , I have a pain in my chest, what should I do ?....please ...


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## tlpe548b (Jul 14, 2011)

imo a persons current job or place in life has nothing to do with where they come from or what information they know. 

Experience is relevant to me and most of our society, most company's require you to have X amount of years of EXPERIENCE in order for them to hire you.

I'm not saying that someone should ask a legal question on the internet, get an answer and run with it. If they do that, that is their own problem for being stupid. But these forums are an excellent place to START, full of knowledgeable people and people with years of experience.


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## GN (Aug 1, 2011)

[email protected][U said:


> TH[/u]egreeti;985274]its ignorant of you to put any stock regarding legal matters from t-shirt designers. Its opinions that can't be used . The question was ..is it LEGAL , not what do you think?, or even what is your experience?...not rude, accurate. While we are talking , I have a pain in my chest, what should I do ?....please ...


We aren't all _just _t-shirt designers. Many of us, myself included, run business' and are familiar with laws-some more than others. And according to the law (that anyone can look up for themselves) , copyright infringement is illegal. And the definition of copyright infringment is pretty clear. The question was answered but the OP will make up his mind what he wants to do.. I, for one always solicit to err on the side of caution and steer clear of lawsuits which is where the _oppinons_ come in.

As for the pain in your chest, consult with your Dr is my free advice/oppinion. If the pain is caused by a knife sticking in it, or some other piece of metal or shrapnel -leave it in and call 911. If the pain is due to heartburn maybe try some calcium tablets, but above all get off the internet and consult a Dr.


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

Dn...most of us here run businesses, and many of us deal with attorneys..so what ?...the laws differ from state to state, and change over time. Copyright law is anything but clear, you really never know until the ruling, I have been on both sides of it 3 times, and I still would not be irresponsible enought to advise someone, as if I knew.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

People should always be encouraged to seek professional legal advice to answer their legal questions.

That said, if people want to share their knowledge and experience, they should. That is what the forum is for. If there were a significant amount of incorrect information and irresponsible advice being given out in these posts, I'm sure Rodney would have banned the topic long ago.

But the reality is, these threads tend to spark some very good insight into a very important topic within the t-shirt industry. Whether someone's design/logo is legal or illegal depends on a variety of factors, so it is always going to be dependent on the specific scenario. But the value of discussing this topic, even on an amateur level, is to generate awareness that IP laws exist. There is a reason why this topic is so popular. Many people either do not know the laws exist or want to understand more about the laws.

Yes, people should seek legal advice when trying to determine if their design/logo is legal or not. But if people can gain a level of knowledge and awareness just by reading these threads, then that's a good thing.


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## barcelona10 (Apr 15, 2011)

or just write it like this FEISBUK its in spanglish kinda like maispeis


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## serreal1 (Sep 23, 2011)

So for the record I'm not a lawyer. Having said that I would totally go for it and wait for them to issue a cease and desist. Just imagine the press you would get, your site would get a crazy amount of traffic!!


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## TeeBug (Sep 27, 2011)

careful on this one... you can make your domain name DeleteFB2012 and you might be better off(?) But Im not a lawyer.

If you're not sure, probably better to stay away.


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## love2knowhow (Jul 17, 2011)

threadbirdy said:


> surely they'd just ask you to stop using it before trying to sue?
> You could reword it to delete face, delete book? not sure if you can trademark the words separately..but _*I aint no lawyer so don't be sending me postcards from your cell block. lol*_


OMG!!--->>_*ROTFLOFL*_!!! Thank God, I wasn't eating or drinking at my keyboard and choked...because then I would have to sue ya, for that burst of sudden laughter...


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## love2knowhow (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey! I'd go for it...because guess what? If Facebook _*does*_ try to make a *federal* case out of it..it won't look good for them trying to publicly (squash the little business guy) and would fly in the face of it's users.

And also, if they did send you a ceast and desist letter...that's even better! Oh the joy! Imagine the world wide media attention! LOL! And just think of all the free million dollar publicity you just gotten! Now, you're...famous and written and talked about by everybody!! 

And there's always the ACLU who would take up your case! That's their specialty! And they lovvvve some public controversy to keep their name in the spotlight and headlines!


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## love2knowhow (Jul 17, 2011)

serreal1 said:


> So for the record I'm not a lawyer. Having said that I would totally go for it and wait for them to issue a cease and desist. Just imagine the press you would get, your site would get a crazy amount of traffic!!


OMG! I just said that...and then I see you'd already said it! How funny is that!?! Just let's me know that someone else is thinking the very same thing I am...and I'm not as crazy as I think I am!

Un-reserve the padded room, fellas. It's not my time to go, yet!


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

love2knowhow said:


> Hey! I'd go for it...because guess what? If Facebook _*does*_ try to make a *federal* case out of it..it won't look good for them trying to publicly (squash the little business guy) and would fly in the face of it's users.
> 
> And also, if they did send you a ceast and desist letter...that's even better! Oh the joy! Imagine the world wide media attention! LOL! And just think of all the free million dollar publicity you just gotten! Now, you're...famous and written and talked about by everybody!!


It's a nice theory. But hardly a sustainable business model. There are more examples of big companies (Disney, NFL, Starbucks, George Lucas, etc) putting people out of business than the little guy becoming famous as a result of being sued.

But you do bring up a valid point... the 'reward over risk' factor. There is nothing wrong with deciding to take a legal risk to make a profit. But the profit better be greater than the cost of the legal defense. Expecting to get by on the free million dollar publicity of a lawsuit is not a wise business decision. People get sued all the time. I've never once bought a product because that company got sued by a bigger company.


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## GN (Aug 1, 2011)

yeah what he ^^^ said... plus lawyers are pretty smart and will put in a clause, "you cannot profit from this lawsuit", termonology, "if we win" (and they WILL win). 

If publicty is what you want.. make a video like Paris Hilton did.. only wear a Tshirt while starring in the video. Could work.


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