# SEO Advice Please....



## Basikboy (Aug 28, 2007)

After trying to do the SEO work myself for a little while now and just spinning my wheels I have finally decided to outsource. My only problem now Is whether the company I chose Is best for me or not. 

I have had numerous emails with this company and spoke with them on the phone. How do you know they are not just telling you what you want to hear? I would only be paying them $250. a month and I worry because I am not one of their top clients that I won't get the attention I need. I don't know why I am so reluctant to go forward with this. 

How do I really know If they are actually putting In the work? I have been told that they will send me data every month to let me know where I was and were I am currently In search standing and what not. Supposedly $250. pays for 7 hours a month of dedicated SEO work. Does this sound right?

Thanks for any help or advice, I know most of you feel SEO can be done yourself but trust me I tried and would rather just pass the buck. I need to make my first payment by later today so please try and reply If you have anything for me. Thanks!


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

$250 seems a lot per month, it really depends on what the company will do for you.
Get you to page 1 for a given phrase - dead easy for a lot of phrases.
Improve your Google ranking - easy for a while.
Are they whitehat? Are they buying links or linking to dodgy neighbourhoods?
I'm always uneasy about paying for something that I can't see (lawyers/accountants/seo etc.).


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## Basikboy (Aug 28, 2007)

Here Is what I was told when asked what can be done for the search word "Funny T-Shirts"

We will work hard within the parameters of what would normally be a maintenance level of service. We are targeting a phrase, 'funny t-shirts' that is highly competitive and over the course of 6 months, I would be impressed if we reach the first page for that specific phrase. I am pretty sure we will reach the second page, and will definitely achieve first page rankings for other 3-word phrases that we will target as milestones to achieving our primary goal. I would then expect that we would be able to maintain or increase the level of service and start to make serious achievements in terms of first page and top 5 rankings in Google. 

Our secondary goal in providing services is to demonstrate what it like for a web entrepreneur to have a trusting, professional relationship with a web solutions company, and to earn referral business from you.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Sounds realistic at least.


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## Basikboy (Aug 28, 2007)

I agree, I have talked to this company on the phone recently and all sounds well. I am taking the plunge, fingers crossed!


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## Zinnia (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm not sure if 7 hours a month can get you moved to the second page for such a competitive keyword. Good luck, though! Definitely let me know how it goes!


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

SEO advice - leave a link in your signature, cheque made payable to PositiveDave....


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## AeresClothing (Sep 3, 2009)

PositiveDave speaks the truth. Always have a link back to your website on any forum or social networking website you use. This is solely up to you. No SEO wizards are going to go into your accounts and add links to your signatures and profiles to get Google props.


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## puncha (Jul 25, 2009)

You can do seo by yourself if you have time coz seo take time so much. If you need to hire some company, I recommend you to check their profile first. Also, check their clients and their feedback.


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## inkimprintscom (Aug 15, 2009)

I think doing SEO yourself is the best way. If you can dedicate maybe a hour or so per day, you can add your site to several directories,blogs, and link exchange. If you can you can also maybe write an article once a week. I figure most people who have websites and are starting out actually sit there everyday and try and figure why the website is not getting business. So if there is time for that, then you can dedicate that same time to SEO.


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## Retro Campaigns (Jun 27, 2008)

Since we've sort of veered off into self-SEO, I just want to add that if you're set up with Google's Analytics and Webmaster tools, you can really monitor and do a lot on your own. Both of those are free.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

as is StatCounter Free invisible Web tracker, Hit counter and Web stats, which I use in conjunction with Analytics


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## AeresClothing (Sep 3, 2009)

Retro Campaigns said:


> Since we've sort of veered off into self-SEO, I just want to add that if you're set up with Google's Analytics and Webmaster tools, you can really monitor and do a lot on your own. Both of those are free.


Agreed.

Definitely recommend using these two whether you are going to SEO yourself or hire someone to do it for you. No use spending time or money if you aren't going to track the results.


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## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

7 hours a month is nowhere near enough for seo, i'm trying to do my own and i put in 2hours a day, also i'd be expecting at the very least 30hrs for $250


just my thoughts


thanks


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

$8 an hour!!!
Pay peanuts, get monkeys. You won't get any SEO for that.


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## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

PositiveDave said:


> $8 an hour!!!
> Pay peanuts, get monkeys. You won't get any SEO for that.



as a British born Indian, I would agree with you by UK and US standards, but for people in India or even Philippines or China for that matter, that's a good living, as a matter of fact, i've been quoted $200 for 30 hours, I didn't take him up as I'm short on funds at the minute, but once by business is fully established I will do, but anyone interested I can pass you the details


Ruchi


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## shirtsthatgo (May 4, 2009)

I think this will echo what is said in other places on this forum. Here is my take on SEO folks.

Many of us start a business and dont hear about SEO until we have our website built and think we are ready. There is a tendency to build it expecting them to come. I did this and they did not come. I have spent the last 10 years (my day job) in web hosting and other internet infrastructure roles and surprisingly SEO is something you just dont touch unless you either have a website or work in a marketing role.

I learned about SEO though and spent many an hour studying and getting to understand it. Now I am doing all the on page SEO for my site and I am outsourcing all the off page work to a great little firm located in Indore. There is a lot of work to be done still but in about 4 months I went from being a nobody to ranking top 10 for about 30 long tail keywords I was targetting. 

This is fascinating stuff and I continue to learn. Yes, my site reeks of on page SEO but it works folks if you do it right. My plan is to back off the on page SEO as the off page work and associated authority of my site increases. 

Anyone new to this I am glad to share with you what I have learned so far.


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## designnbuy (Jan 1, 2010)

It's always better if you can do the SEO instead of hiring someone. If you don't have time to do and need to give the responsibility to some SEO company or any professional please be sure they don't use any black hat strategies to improve ranking so quickly!! It's really risky!


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## mokothemonkey (Sep 21, 2009)

don't do it. thats almost $40 an hour, which you could do yourself. I got to #50 (listing, not page) on google for search "geek shirts" which gets 10,000 searches per month or something, all from SEOing my website - which is a spreadshirt shop so I could do little seoing - and putting my link in forum sigs with "geek shirts" as the keywords, and posted a link in a couple of blog replies. No payments at all.
I've also got to #2 (once again, listing not page) on yahoo! for search 'nerdy tees' and page 2 of bing for search 'geek shirts' all by myself in under 3 months. All without spending a dime, excluding electricity bill 

For that much, you can do it yourself. Just work hard.


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## shirtsthatgo (May 4, 2009)

Good tips there moko. You have done a lot by yourself. I notice that you mainly have a lot of inbound links and that they are only from a few separate sites (mainly forums) I also see how you are pretty limited with the on page SEO but you still rank well.

I will try some of what you have done in addition to what I am outsourcing. 

Lets say you want to rank for keyword X. But you are posting a legit post in a non related forum. For instance I am into Kiteboarding. Any posts I make in Kiteboarding forums that are legit it is fair game to have my site link in my profile/sig for that forum. That being said how do you get the link to have anchor text? How do you have many forum links help with a given keyword?


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## mokothemonkey (Sep 21, 2009)

with most forums, bb code is allowed in sigs and links, and sometimes html

for bb code
Keyword X[/url ]
make sure to not have the spaces after your url or end tag, just put those in so the forums would show it 

for html
[URL='your%20url']Keyword X 
with images:
 

posting in related forums are best, but all links go towards page rank and help when using anchor text
Hope this helps!


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## Mark Rhodus (Jan 10, 2010)

Basikboy said:


> Here Is what I was told when asked what can be done for the search word "Funny T-Shirts"
> 
> We will work hard within the parameters of what would normally be a maintenance level of service. We are targeting a phrase, 'funny t-shirts' that is highly competitive and over the course of 6 months, I would be impressed if we reach the first page for that specific phrase. I am pretty sure we will reach the second page, and will definitely achieve first page rankings for other 3-word phrases that we will target as milestones to achieving our primary goal. I would then expect that we would be able to maintain or increase the level of service and start to make serious achievements in terms of first page and top 5 rankings in Google.
> 
> Our secondary goal in providing services is to demonstrate what it like for a web entrepreneur to have a trusting, professional relationship with a web solutions company, and to earn referral business from you.


It is very easy to determine if $250 a month is a good deal or not. Here is a chart showing the average click thru rates for search engines based on rank #.










And the exact search volumes for the keyword "funny t shirts" is 165,000 a month.

So at position 10 you should receive an estimated 4,785 visitors. 

The average ecommerce conversion rate is 2%

4,785 visitors x 2% = 95.7 customers

Take 95.7 x the amount of profit you make on your average sale and now you know how much its worth to rank #10 on search engines.

So lets say you profit $10 on average from each sale you make. 

95.7 x $10 = $957 in profit per month. Now that will go on as long as you are ranking in the top 10. I will pay $250 to make $957 all day long.

Now the real question remains is the SEO'er your hiring capable. $250 a month is extremely cheap for a keyword with this high of a search volume and amount of competition. 

Other things to consider is the age of your domain and how long it been on topic. If you have a relatively new domain (newer than 1 year) ranking on the first page for such a competitive keyword would be very difficult.

My suggestion is to get a list of websites/keywords this client has done seo for and check for yourself. be sure that the keywords they are showing you have similar competition and search volume to the keywords that the company will be obtaining for you. If possible, ask if the company will let you call a couple customers to make sure that they aren't just supplying you with random websites/keywords that they didn't do.

I hope this helps...
Oh, one more thing, focus your time on social media as it is where future business will be initiated. 

Thanks
Mark
Owner 
http://www.buyembroiderysupplies.comBuy Embroidery Supplies


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## jodyl2 (May 29, 2009)

this does help. thank you very much. if only I can understand it. I am going through the same turmoil as the person that just wants to outsource seo. I have spoken to many companies and I just can't find one that I feel comfortable with or afford. also, I did not allow for the extra time that is needed...

although, I would love to do it myself..
And that's the short story...

two things: 
please can you give me the order that I need to follow...step 1, step 2 etc.
please can you just give me the sites that I need to go to to get this started.

(for instance,, you referred to posting and included stuff that I need to put in post)

and 2. perhaps someone here can help me get started, I can pay modestly.

something else, I have a wordpress blog and I believe there are plugins that will do stuff for me for free. I have had all in one seo installed and now I need to get it started.

does anyone know a list of directories, blogs to submit my site to?


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## shirtsthatgo (May 4, 2009)

Hi Jody,

You have to determine if SEO is something that you really want to do. I would read the free stuff available at www.seomoz.org and see what you think. It is quite a project to get the SEO piece done for your business. Also once you start it never ends. I am fairly technical and really enjoy it but I also outsource pieces that I am not strong with yet.

I can connect you up with my team that does the SEO work I outsource. They are based in India and are great to work with. You can peek at their various offerings at www.snvinfotech.com to see what you think. 

At a high level SEO has two main components. First there is on page SEO which is the work you do on your website to optimize it for being found. Second there is off page SEO which is really about links to your site from other sites on the web.

As you work on SEO efforts you will also want to dial in your website so that when the traffic comes they are converted into customers.

Let me know thoughts. I am glad to explain further details etc. SEO is becoming a hobby that is almost as interesting as getting my own t-site spooled up.


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## shirtsthatgo (May 4, 2009)

I agree with you KungFu. It is critical that you understand SEO before you hire it out. Depending upon how competitive your niche, and associated keywords, is you could see results within a few days after doing the on page optimization.


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## jodyl2 (May 29, 2009)

thanks for getting back to me. I have researched this for awhile, so I'm not totally in the dark. I just don't think I can trust someone in India, how much is the charges? kungfukitty, shirtsthatgo, maybe give the contact info? kungfukitty the link you provided for seo blog doesn't work?


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## ShirtSays (Feb 23, 2010)

The best way to do SEO is in house but if you have to outsource then you SHOULD NOT talk to anyone who says "we will try to get on this page for this keyword". That isn't really the way it works and that is not REALISTIC at all.

What you should be looking for if you are going to Outsource is a list of what they will be doing. Will they be creating seo landing pages / content / getting backlinks / registering your site with directories / etc. AND yes, you should make a list with them of the terms you are looking for but set a realistic goal. Something that they will create whatever # of SEO Landing Pages for whatever # of search terms. That there GOAL is to reach the top of google with every single one.

But then there should be some other goals out there. Like I said, trying to get back links - trying to get your name out to blog, submitting your site to directories.

Most of the time anyone saying they are shooting for a # listing on good is full of it. You never know where your going to land until its done. Some pages take longer then others. And SOMETIMES google ranks you high at first then knocks you down OR the other way around. It is all a wait and see game. But that is why in-house is usually the best answer.

My advice would be if you are going to outsource is to really learn about what they are doing and get your feet wet a little bit with it yourself. That way you can learn from it and increase the amount of time and value you are getting.


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## Robin R (Jul 30, 2007)

A lot of good info.

You could also learn a lot on SEO (and your competitors) with SEO Add ons (Firefox). you could check this thread: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/ecommerce-site-design/t101311.html

@ Mark; Just wondering, how/ where did you get that chart and other info (key word volume per month)?

Cheers,
Robin


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