# Are there any stand alone multi needle embroidery machines



## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

I've been looking online and the only multi-color units I've seen are 6,10, and 12 needle units with built in computers.

Are there any cheaper stand alone multi-needle units that you plug into a computer with a USB cable?


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## gailevans (Aug 9, 2008)

All of the embroidery machines I am familiar with have the built-in computer (not necessarily with monitor) that you load the designs into. I believe most of the newer models will have the capability to be connected to your computer with a USB or serial cable, but I think most operators just load the designs from a disk or jump drive. The small jump drives are accepted by most of the new models, as floppy disks and drives are becoming obsolete. I retrofitted my older embroidery machine with the jump drive, and it works great.

I did have mine connected to the computer at one time and decided it was easier to use the drive, as I had to program in other things (thread colors/needles, orientation, etc) to be able to run the job.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

I guess what I should have asked is, are there any multi needle machines that are less than 6 needle?

From what I have seen it goes from 1 to 6 then up to 16.

Are there any 2 or 4 needle machines that would be cheaper?


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## gailevans (Aug 9, 2008)

I'm not sure there are any embroidery machines that have 2 colors, and the one-color machines are domestic sewing machines that are also outfitted to do embroidery (limited). Many years ago, Melco used to make a single needle machine, but with the explosion of multi-color complex designs, the demand most likely died. You might be able to find one of these machines used, but I doubt if there are too many of them still around. I think it was called the EMC 1.


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

kylerogers said:


> I guess what I should have asked is, are there any multi needle machines that are less than 6 needle?
> 
> From what I have seen it goes from 1 to 6 then up to 16.
> 
> Are there any 2 or 4 needle machines that would be cheaper?


The only one that comes to mind is: Melco EP-4, it is a 4 needle machine,
http://www.melcousa.com/pdfs/EP4_brochure.pdf


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks. When I typed it into google stuff came up for a similar 4 needle machine from janome called the mb4. Apparently both retail for about $5k, which is more what i'm looking for.



bungy said:


> The only one that comes to mind is: Melco EP-4, it is a 4 needle machine,
> [media]http://www.melcousa.com/pdfs/EP4_brochure.pdf[/media]


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I know there are a lot of 6 needle Babylock/Brother machines for sale now that they have come out with the 10 needle. I am sure they will go for about that. I have the 6 needle Babylock. I will tell you that if you are going into production, you will be making a big mistake by going with a four needle unless you are only going to be doing lettering or very simple designs. If embroidery were my main business, I would be putting mine up for sale to get the 10 needle. Not sure the dealers are doing trade in. Might check with some of the dealers. They may have some used units or know who has them.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

There is a janome mb-4


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

If I want to be able to convert graphics into embroidery files fast and easy, how much are we talking for the software?


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I think you need to research turning graphics into embroidery files a little more before you jump in. There is no fast easy way of doing it yourself. -It takes a lot of learning and practice to learn to digitize.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Embroidery digitizing software is like any other software - the gamut runs from hundreds to thousands. Auto digitizing is hyped but believe me you will spend a bunch of time "fixing" it. Some have trial downloads. This is not an adventure to enter into lightly. The stuff needed to be successful is not inexpensive. Stabilizers, threads, extra hoops, needles, etc can be pricey but skimping on those things is not optimal. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained and it never stops. Do you want to do hats? Another learning curve. There are embroidery groups on yahoo that area wealth of information. Most of them are machine specific. You might want to look into those and join the ones that are geared toward the machines you are considering.


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

Out sourse the digitizing you will be a lot happier until you start learning to digitize.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

I already have experience with vector graphics (using Microsoft Illustrator), from doing screen printing. I was under the impression that digitizing vector graphics for embroidery wasn't that bad.


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I think someone left you with the wrong impression of digitizing-you really need to research it more. it is not a fast learning process . I long ago decided it was not worth my time and effort and outsource my designs


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

kylerogers said:


> I was under the impression that digitizing vector graphics for embroidery wasn't that bad.


From your replies, I'm getting the distinct impression that you hear us but you don't believe us...

There are embroidery software packages that will convert vectors to stitch files. The only people who will tell you that he results will be perfect are the people who are selling the embroidery software. Anyone who has actually used these programs will tell you the software reps are full of it. 

If you have a simple vector file with multiple sections that overlap or adjoin, send it to one of us and we can show you what happens. Trust me, you won't be able to sell the results...


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## gailevans (Aug 9, 2008)

tfalk said:


> There are embroidery software packages that will convert vectors to stitch files. The only people who will tell you that he results will be perfect are the people who are selling the embroidery software. Anyone who has actually used these programs will tell you the software reps are full of it.


That is definitely true! I have been digitizing for my embroidery work since 1995 (programs were in DOS), and there are still things that I have trouble with. A good digitizer makes it look easy -- you cannot believe how difficult it can be. There are a lot of variables to deal with, and each fabric responds differently to the programming.

Be very careful of spending a lot of $$ on one of these programs. If you are determined to do so, it would be a good thing to talk to several people that work with the various brands of software on a regular basis, not just the salespeople.

When you view the software at the trade shows, they are showing you canned demos. The proof is in the sewing, no matter how many bells and whistles they are telling you about.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh I believe you. They make everything look simple at the trade shows.



gailevans said:


> That is definitely true! I have been digitizing for my embroidery work since 1995 (programs were in DOS), and there are still things that I have trouble with. A good digitizer makes it look easy -- you cannot believe how difficult it can be. There are a lot of variables to deal with, and each fabric responds differently to the programming.
> 
> Be very careful of spending a lot of $$ on one of these programs. If you are determined to do so, it would be a good thing to talk to several people that work with the various brands of software on a regular basis, not just the salespeople.
> 
> When you view the software at the trade shows, they are showing you canned demos. The proof is in the sewing, no matter how many bells and whistles they are telling you about.


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

What everybody is telling you is right on the money, vector graphics and embroidery digitizing are two different animals.What Ted is saying is the truth.
But try it and you'll find out for sure.


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

I have been at trade shows and seen them lie right to your face,just 1 click and it's done. What they don't tell you is the hours that they spent getting the design just right before the show.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

laz0924 said:


> I have been at trade shows and seen them lie right to your face,just 1 click and it's done. What they don't tell you is the hours that they spent getting the design just right before the show.


Which trade shows have the most embroidery stuff. The only trade show I've been too was the SGIA last time it was in Atlanta. I vaguely remember seeing some embroidery stuff, but I was there for screen printing.


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

ISS show will be coming up in Febuary in Orlando Fl, There are a few others before that, the big one in Las Vegas was a few weeks ago SGIA show


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

While it is kind of at the end of show season, there still may be some of the big shows yet. Most supplier sites will list shows where they will be vending. If you know which machines you are interested in, check their sites for information on shows.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Understand one thing about trade shows... they are designed to showcase the products in the absolute best light they can.

For your price point and what it sounds like you are trying to do, I think something like the Brother PR6xx series would do you well, especially if you can find a reasonably priced machine with a fairly low stitch count. Both of mine have over 40 million stitches and work flawlessly. They both have only been in the shop once outside of normal maintenance and they are small enough to fit into the back of a car - you don't need to pay a tech to come out to your house if you have a shop near you that services them.

If you really want to learn before purchasing, get a free copy of Stitch Era Universal and play around with it, it has the ability to convert vectors to stitch files. I think EmBird may also have a similar capability, not sure if it's free or not? Then have someone with an embroidery machine stitch out the file and you will see for yourself why we say it's not a reasonable expectation... Or send me a file and I'll run a sample when I have time.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

laz0924 said:


> ISS show will be coming up in Febuary in Orlando Fl, There are a few others before that, the big one in Las Vegas was a few weeks ago SGIA show


I was thinking of the ISS show in February. Orlando isn;t that far from me.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

Believe me I know how this works. I got into t-shirt screen printing a little over two years ago and recently sold all my stuff.

They tell you "it's not an art, anyone can do it." After two years I was still disappointed with my prints. I've met a lot of other people who will say the same. (Plus a few who are doing screen printing, are terrible at it, but won't admit it.)

I mostly sold my own t-shirts designs. The appeal of embroidery for me right now is

1) No mess. I was trashing my house with screen printing. I have a bathroom that literally needs to be completely demolished and rebuilt.

2) I can have my own hat and polo shirt designs that are made to order, I'll just keep a bunch of blank shirts instead of large quantities of every design. This would eliminate a lot of the money and space needed for inventory and the annoying fact that people always ordered the one size I was out off causing me to have to make a whole new batch.

3) Fewer steps versus screen printing.

4) Not relying on my own hand to do anything artistic (like making prints)

5) Easy to customize. I had girl make polo shirts for me for an organization. After paying for digitizing the image, she would drop in custom text underneath the logo for no extra charge. She had a very basic machine, so I have to assume that it is not a big deal to do this.

This is my home business: Patriotic Flags

This is a prime example of the type of embroidery I would want to make.













tfalk said:


> Understand one thing about trade shows... they are designed to showcase the products in the absolute best light they can.
> 
> For your price point and what it sounds like you are trying to do, I think something like the Brother PR6xx series would do you well, especially if you can find a reasonably priced machine with a fairly low stitch count. Both of mine have over 40 million stitches and work flawlessly. They both have only been in the shop once outside of normal maintenance and they are small enough to fit into the back of a car - you don't need to pay a tech to come out to your house if you have a shop near you that services them.
> 
> If you really want to learn before purchasing, get a free copy of Stitch Era Universal and play around with it, it has the ability to convert vectors to stitch files. I think EmBird may also have a similar capability, not sure if it's free or not? Then have someone with an embroidery machine stitch out the file and you will see for yourself why we say it's not a reasonable expectation... Or send me a file and I'll run a sample when I have time.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Since I see more than 5 colors in the design, I would hope you would not want anything less than a 6 needle. Like has been mentioned, they are now available at a good price since a lot of people are wanting the 10 needle. They are workhorse machines. As to less mess, well maybe. For sure won't mess up your plumbing. Good luck in your search.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

That design is probably too tall for a PR600, even if you upgrade it to the PR620. I'm not sure what the maximum height is for the PR650 cap frame but my guess says that design was done on a much larger machine. 

Given that, you might want to look into something like an SWF601C or SWF1201C, I think the max cap height is closer to 2.5 inches.


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## ironhog (Mar 24, 2009)

In my opinion that cap was sewn prior to assembly. All the manufacturers are touting the ability to sew tall designs. What they do not tell you is the style of cap that applies to. There is no machine that will sew a 3 inch design on a low profile structured cap. Been down this road many times.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

ironhog said:


> In my opinion that cap was sewn prior to assembly. All the manufacturers are touting the ability to sew tall designs. What they do not tell you is the style of cap that applies to. There is no machine that will sew a 3 inch design on a low profile structured cap. Been down this road many times.


That is entirely possible.

Those caps are made in China and there is actually a serious flaw in the way they did the embroideries. I have some hats that were done at local embroidery place. The embroidery is 1.5" x 4". If you look at them really close, they aren't perfectly straight. However it is barely noticeable.

The embroideries on these Chinese caps are so big that any amount of crookedness shows up really bad. I've had some customers complain and want replacements.

I experienced the same thing doing screen printing. Many of my designs could be a little crooked and it didn;t matter. I even went back and looked at ones I had made in local shops. When examined closely, many were in fact a little crooked but I had not even noticed before.

However, I had two designs I made that were really tall. They had to be super, super straight or it was big time noticeable that they were crooked.

So I'm not a fan of tall imprints anyway. They are not forgiving.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

jean518 said:


> While it is kind of at the end of show season, there still may be some of the big shows yet. Most supplier sites will list shows where they will be vending. If you know which machines you are interested in, check their sites for information on shows.


Shows are over until January. PPAI Expo in Las Vegas is the first of the season. They will have some equipment and supply vendors but mostly it is a promotional products show. ISS Long Beach is the week after Expo. It has the most equipment and supplies of all the shows.


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

lizziemaxine said:


> Shows are over until January. PPAI Expo in Las Vegas is the first of the season. They will have some equipment and supply vendors but mostly it is a promotional products show. ISS Long Beach is the week after Expo. It has the most equipment and supplies of all the shows.


It's cool. I'm not in a frenzy to get to a show immediately. I can wait until the Orlando ISS show in February.


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