# So torn about which is best



## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

So I am about to open up a store for selling designs of course on Tshirts, mugs, phones ect. 
I specialize in cat designs, not the stock images but actual high res pictures of cats from a big cat sanctuary. On average they have 90, blind, FIV and FELV cats. People sponsor them and want their cat on different items. 
So I have been looking at reviews for several places. Of course, we want a decent profit margin since this is for a 501 that runs totally off donations, but we do want quality as well. We want good quality in print and clothing. 
So I have been looking at Spreadshirt, Teespring, Redbubble, Gearbubble, Design by humans, Threadless- basically all the known shops. 
My plan was to start out with a good shop, preferably one that also has a shop in Europe as we have people in the US and Europe and it would be nice if the people in Europe did not have to pay a lot of shipping costs. 
Then as things get rolling I was eventually going to open up an online shop as well using a POD company. Printful looked pretty good. 
So my question to you guys that have been in this for a while is, what company do you recommend for me to start out with as far as opening up a store with?
Spreadshirt was on my list of the top 5 I really like. 
We have a CP store now for years but you know the profit margin is pretty bad, same with Zazzle. 
Our Facebook fan page has over 1,3 million fans so we are very well known. 
Thank you to everyone who takes the time to read this and give me their expert opinion. We would like to make some money of course but we do want quality for our customers as well.


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

Please I am sure out of the 40 something people that have read this some of you can help me decide which is best. It would really help me get started. 
Thank you so much.


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

If you want to farm out work and have no intention to become a printer then it is totally your decision at the end of the day.
just about all printers are competent and would be glad to send you a bit of commission.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, you are doing well with the FB page, so I suppose you will get some sales regardless of which POD you use. I tried Redbubble as an experiment, but have never sold anything on it 
(I screen print my own designs and sell them on Etsy, eBay, my own URL, etc)

I can't say anything much about the quality of the options as I have not tested them. I suspect that most who have poor print results have not produced their art with sufficient understanding of the limits of DTG printing.

As to profits, well, I'll say what I always say. Profits when using fulfillment/POD are low because they are doing all of the work rather than you. And also because per-piece on-demand production is expensive and inefficient compared to having mass quantities of a design screen printed. Short of inputting one's own labor or investing upfront in efficiently produced inventory, I do not know a way to improve the math ... and obviously those "solutions" are not without their own costs and risks.

Perhaps someone with more (and better) experience with fulfillment/POD will have something more helpful to say ... and that someone better not represent a POD company! 
I know someone who works at one of the best known PODs. They've got a nice business model going there ... for them ;-)

PS I commend your cause. See my avatar for my resident expert on all things cat


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

Dekzion said:


> If you want to farm out work and have no intention to become a printer then it is totally your decision at the end of the day.
> just about all printers are competent and would be glad to send you a bit of commission.


Oh no I could never become a printer. Way too much money and I have no idea how to do anything like that. I just like to design on the computer. 
I just want a good place that has alot of products but has good quality when it comes to their tshirts. Some of these places have really bad reviews.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

why not order one of your designs from each place on the same shirt (ie 100% cotton, 50/50, etc.),
check quality/feel, and do some wash/dry trials


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

into the T said:


> why not order one of your designs from each place on the same shirt (ie 100% cotton, 50/50, etc.),
> check quality/feel, and do some wash/dry trials


Good Idea Thanks


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

if you are looking at the us market,
why not make a post in the referrals/recommendations section 
and see if one of the fine members here would be willing to be your printer/presser

dydd (look at post history, ask for a sample from your artwork, etc.)

save the kitties!


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## KingKong1992 (Nov 5, 2017)

ladybadone said:


> Our Facebook fan page has over 1,3 million fans so we are very well known.


Wow, how long did it take you to grow your page to this level?
Any advice on growing a facebook page you can give me?


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

KingKong1992 said:


> Wow, how long did it take you to grow your page to this level?
> Any advice on growing a facebook page you can give me?


Yes. Have a page about something people are a bit passionate about. Like saving animals that would otherwise be put down


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

into the T said:


> if you are looking at the us market,
> why not make a post in the referrals/recommendations section
> and see if one of the fine members here would be willing to be your printer/presser
> 
> ...


Very good idea. I am pretty new to the forums so still finding my way around reading posts etc. 
I have found a couple good POD suppliers that I think might work for when I get to the point where I put up myWP/woo-commerce site.
I am lucky that my husband has a web design company so think over xmas he will do that for me. 
Have my domain name now 4pawsdesign.com 
Starting out right now with Teespring just to get going and then a few other ones for diff products, maybe spreadshirt, teechip pro. Going to look and see what products they all see to see what I want to put where.


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

KingKong1992 said:


> Wow, how long did it take you to grow your page to this level?
> Any advice on growing a facebook page you can give me?


Well Blind Cat Rescue has been around for a few years and is pretty well known. They are a sanctuary for Blind, FELV and FIV cats. We do not do adoptions. They live there the rest of their lives.


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

I want to eventually design shirts that look like this of each of the cats there for supporters ect. 
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=245569&stc=1&d=1511251613

I made a link about it in the design section to ask if anyone knew how they did it or any youtube tuts on how to do that. 
Someone said it was Simulated Process Color which I had never heard of. 
I guess you do that with Illustrator not PS.

So when I figure out how to design that I will have to find someone that will print that type of shirt for me on order.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

here is a quick overview vid


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

Thanks but I do not want to print it myself. I just want to learn how to design those images and then send them to a POD that can print them. 
As I said I just want to learn how to design those so I can put the whole cat face on the shirt for the Cat Sanctuary. I am not getting into printing.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

i think the video shows how to design for all over prints

you simply make a mock-up of the shirt size and use that as a crop for your image


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

Yea i google all over t shirt designs and found some stuff. I had no idea what it was even called. I just know I want to make them for the cats at BCR , lol


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

ladybadone said:


> I want to eventually design shirts that look like this of each of the cats there for supporters ect.
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=245569&stc=1&d=1511251613
> 
> I made a link about it in the design section to ask if anyone knew how they did it or any youtube tuts on how to do that.
> ...


Simulated Process (SP) is a type of screen printing. Most things (not garments) are printed with Process Colors (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black = CMYK) which are somewhat translucent and blend together to create any other color. SP uses more opaque inks and any number of colors, some of which may wholly represent themselves, or may be printed as small dots (halftones) next to dots of other colors to give the illusion of another color. This matters when creating the color separations and films for printing, but perhaps not so much when creating the original art--unless one is trying to reduce costs by limiting the number of colors/screens needed.

SP, CMYK, whatever, does not necessarily dictate what software you create the original art in. Since you will be starting with cat photos as your input, it probably makes sense to stick with a photo (raster/bitmap) based program, like PhotoShop. Vector programs (like Illustrator or CorelDraw) are great for creating line art and combining it with text, and photo/raster content--but not needed if it is just going to be photo/raster all the way.

The shirt you posted is from The Mountain, right? They carefully select the shirt color to work with each design, and seem to do some dying or bleaching on the rest of the shirt to help the printed image blend in. So it's not just a large print, they have prepared the shirt for it as well. At least that is the case on the ones I own. Note, I'm not suggesting you do that, as most shops wouldn't know how or it would be pricey, just mentioning it to set expectations as to what is commonly available versus what The Mountain does for themselves.


All that blather aside, unless you are printing at least 50-100 of a given design at ONE TIME, the costs of simulated process (and screen printing in general) will probably be too high to be viable.

If you can use white polyester shirts, then dye sublimation printing would be a more affordable way to printing a small number of each design.

If the shirts can be white but must be cotton, then inkjet or laserjet transfers are options. I've used these a little, and was happy with the results.

If the shirts must be black/dark, then YMMV. Many still feel that transfers for dark shirts are too heavy and prone to cracking/failure too soon.

Note, if you walk in off the street and say your want this cat printed on a shirt, you will pay retail pricing. So shop around and find someone who does good work and will give you a commercial rate based on the continued flow of print orders from the cat organization. I would suggest in negotiating the price that you offer to allow the company to print their name/URL in a modest size down at the bottom of the image--so they sponsor the cats by printing the shirts for less in exchange for that visible mention of their sponsorship.


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

NoXid said:


> Simulated Process (SP) is a type of screen printing. Most things (not garments) are printed with Process Colors (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black = CMYK) which are somewhat translucent and blend together to create any other color. SP uses more opaque inks and any number of colors, some of which may wholly represent themselves, or may be printed as small dots (halftones) next to dots of other colors to give the illusion of another color. This matters when creating the color separations and films for printing, but perhaps not so much when creating the original art--unless one is trying to reduce costs by limiting the number of colors/screens needed.
> 
> SP, CMYK, whatever, does not necessarily dictate what software you create the original art in. Since you will be starting with cat photos as your input, it probably makes sense to stick with a photo (raster/bitmap) based program, like PhotoShop. Vector programs (like Illustrator or CorelDraw) are great for creating line art and combining it with text, and photo/raster content--but not needed if it is just going to be photo/raster all the way.
> 
> ...


Noxid thank you so much for explaining all that. You are right I would be using CMYK for the design print more than likely. I use PS mostly and can use Illustrator for other designs. 
I would be starting with a huge res picture of the cats face in PS and going from there. 
I read that they use the color of the animal as well just as you where saying which cuts down on the cost of printing. 
So the basic colors would be black, white, yellow, orange or grey and sometimes a tabby stipe.
Ofc there are a few multi color cats and I guess I would just pick the most prevalent color of the cat for the overal color of the shirt. 
I looked and Printful does over all printing, so I would consider them at a later date.
Right now I am getting my designs up and running in the basic shops like teespring ect.
Since we do have such a huge following at least I have that part taken care of, the fanbase. 
Its just the fun part designing and doing some advertising here and there. 
I am never going to get into printing. Not interested in that at all. No time for designing and printing, package, shipping plus the other stuff I do. LOL


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## EricAtRandom (Apr 2, 2014)

Here is my experience with the vendors I've worked with (same or similar items across all four):

Redbubble - They have "all over print" shirts and dresses, leggings, and mini-skirts. You set your profit margin (typically 20%). I've sold well on Redbubble, and consistently.
CafePress - Do not have "all over print" garments. But they have mousepads and buttons and cups. They mandate profit margins, and I always seem to get 5%, with rare occasions of 10%. I sell pretty consistently on CafePress - better than RedBubble, but at 1/4 the profit margin, so it doesn't pay as well.
Zazzle - I have little experience with Zazzle, as they have the most confusing design interface, so I am not sure about the "all over print" option. Once made, you cannot edit an item (you can clone it, edit the clone, and delete the original). I've made very few sales on Zazzle. Not enough in 4 years for them to send me a payment.
Spreadshirt - I've not seen "all over print" shirts here, and do not believe they are an option. Been on here for months and sold absolutely nothing, even with paid advertising via Facebook and Google AdWords. I don't know what the trick is. They have good pricing and strong profit margins, so I am sad that nothing ever sells.

I hope you find this helpful. Feel free to ask any questions if I've not answered them.

EDIT: I also sell on Society6 (or try to), and they have "all over print" tees. Just thought I'd add that in here.


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## ladybadone (Jan 26, 2017)

Thanks. I have put some stuff on Teespring, Zazzle, and Spreadshirt and going to use Redbubble too. 
Basically, I am going to use different stores for different things since no store has it all really. 
Zazzle is very hard to work with but they have some excellent products that no one else offers. I will only use them for those products unless someone requests something specifically from there. 
I like Redbubble and am going to do some all over stuff.


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