# Since you brought it up - that's mine!!



## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Reading through another thread that Rodney has since closed, it struck me as ironic that some folks were getting a little hinky about designs being "borrowed". I had this same issue with a forum member and sent a PM asking politely that MY work be removed from the site as things that were being actually sold. NO RESPONSE. Initially I thought ok, forget it, not worth the time, but is seems as though this site is FILLED WITH MY DESIGNS!! At least 5 on the attached page alone!!

Ok, so I didn't copyright those early designs, but I always thought there was a certain level of integrity amoung the folks on this forum. I see I was the fool. I hope my momma comes from her grave and haunts you for taking the design I created ONLY for her.You didn't even change the picture, except to crop it into separate pieces. That is shameful. I would have been more than happy to work with you and trade designs, if you had only asked.

I am so angry that I will never post another thing to this forum again. We use to help each other here, now it's just a joke.

Keep 'em up, take 'em down, it really doesn't matter any more, but you will NEVER be able to "borrow" my style, creativity and ingenuity. I have tons of designs I am WILLING to share and/or trade. Just be grown enough and ASK.

So long forum


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

Carol it's not just your designs that this person has "borrowed". I noticed about a year or so ago that this same website has "borrowed" some of my designs too. I contacted them just like you did with of course no response back and my designs are still there. 

It's nice that we can do leg work for someone else to come along and copy and paste the design onto their website and start selling it as their own design. They claim to provide their customers with "cutting edge designs" but left out the part that they may not be the actual designer who created it.


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## johnbol1 (Aug 19, 2010)

They are also using a free open source web cart script "prestashop"...seems like they dont wanna pay for anything.

lazy, and dishonest


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Interesting development for sure... Carol... Once you create a design it is by law copyrighted technically... Really Copyright means nothing unless you sue and then it's up to a judge or jury to decide... But once you create an original piece of work whatever it is... It's yours... There's nothing special you need to do to "protect" it...

Copyright issues are a problem in any industry... I think there is a difference is "copying" a design but creating the design yourself and actually selling the same exact template file as another... I know many would argue the point... But it's one mans opinion...

Even in this industry I see the same transfers made by a dozen different companies.... Someone has to actually own that design no?

What I have a problem with is Will and others too calling foul when they themselves are not without sin.... It's a little rich for Will to be crying that I "STOLE" something form his website when I did nothing of the sort... Technically my web developer did and I hired him so I'm guilty... But whatever...

I was recently talking with a member of this forum and they had mentioned your website Carol... They commented I don't know how she does it?... All those copyrighted designs on her website... How does she get by with that?... I then explained how you can get licenses from certain license holders... I know I have some... From major college teams... Actually for the most part it's fairly easy to do and most college teams allow for a small crafters license...

On the face it one could scream hey look at all those copyrighted designs... But unless we know the facts we should not judge... My guess is the proper licensing agreements are in order.

So if we are truly above reproach then it's fair to preach and call foul... My guess is though must of us are not above reproach so perhaps we should not judge without all the facts? And if we see we're being taken advantage of on one end and we are guilty of the same perhaps we should rethink things?... If we point the finger at someone else that leaves 3 pointing back at us.

Kevin


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I am so angry that I will never post another thing to this forum again. We use to help each other here, now it's just a joke.


@allhamps People definitely still help people here every day. Lots of members are getting help and sharing their experience with others.

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience that makes you not want to post anything here. I hope you won't let a bad apple spoil the whole pie. There are people who don't play by the rules in any community. Whether it's an online forum, Facebook, Youtube or a local neighborhood book club. It sucks when it happens so close to home.

Just to make things perfectly clear. *We definitely do not condone or endorse people taking others intellectual property here.* It's one of the reasons why we don't allow file sharing. 

There are over a million posts in this forum, so it would be impossible for me to see them all. I read a lot of posts, but in a real time message board, things can get posted that don't belong. That's why it's great when the community can help let me know about things that they see that I may have missed: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/announcements-site-updates/t35067.html

If there is ever an issue, all you have to do is report a post or contact me directly if you see another forum member taking your work. It won't be tolerated here. To date, nobody has contacted me to let me know about an issue with that. I don't even know which members are being talked about in the post above.

I know you're frustrated, but a quick note to me instead of starting a thread could have taking care of this issue a lot easier.


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Ahh Rodney the voice of reason. To you and the other true forum members I apologize for my unprofessional rant. I gave this member the opportunity to resolve this with me a while ago and he chose not to. He just pushed me over the edge today. Since I don't think he has any interest in resolving this, I think now would be a good time to close this post and I'll keep the other mean thoughts to myself, go have some Oreos and ice cream and see how I feel in the morning


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## superD70 (Dec 22, 2010)

Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.
It sucks to have others steal your designs but it means they were good designs, who would steal crappy work and try to pass as their own.
I'm not condoning it just trying to lighten your mood a bit


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

allhamps said:


> go have some Oreos and ice cream and see how I feel in the morning


Oh Oreos and ice cream always make things better


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Slick, please don't leave the forum. I would miss you too much. Pretty please don't go.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I gave this member the opportunity to resolve this with me a while ago and he chose not to. He just pushed me over the edge today


Please let me know which member it is (privately if you like) so I can look into it and take care of it if necessary. We definitely do not want people here stealing others intellectual property. 

Sure, they could still find it some other way or steal from someone else, but that's not what our community is about by any means.


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

johnbol1 said:


> They are also using a free open source web cart script "prestashop"...seems like they dont wanna pay for anything.
> 
> lazy, and dishonest


 
There's nothing wrong with using open source tools. Using free tools doesn't make one lazy or dishonest.


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

I have used other peoples ideas to create my own designs.I havent just gone out and stole their design and claimed it as mine.Katrux has a great basball design that seems to pop out of the chest.I have had the idea to do that same thing but havent gotten around to it.Does it mean Im stealing it?no I dont feel so,objects ripping through shirts have been decorated for long time,just not in rhinstones.My design will not match his.it will be my own becuase Im going to create it.Im gonna use baseballs,footballs,soccerballs,ect.
Any time you post something,even if its on your *own* web site it could be stolen,and if its good enough you wont be able to afford the lawyer to go after all the theives.
I thought most people here were pretty good about not stealing, sorry to hear you had it happen to you.
Keep your chin up.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I had this same issue with a forum member and sent a PM asking politely that MY work be removed from the site as things that were being actually sold. NO RESPONSE


@allhamps Have you still had no response from the member? He says he has been in contact with you. Please let me know if the designs aren't removed today.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Slick,

I made a design just for you. I hope it is comforting. Ice cream helps too.



Api


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

You guys are soooooo sweet. How could I ever leave you all??? Again, I do honestly apologize for letting my anger get the better of me, but then I've never been known for being politically correct or cool headed. In any event, the other member and I have worked the issue out.

I will just state again, that if you ASK me, I will see what I can do. I don't mind sharing. I may have a nasty attitude problem (according to my hubby), but I'm really nice almost to a fault.

PS - way too many Oreos, but they were so much fun


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## MsHutch (Jul 19, 2008)

Really glad to hear that you got things worked out! I wouldn't like to see you leave this place either!!! Thanks for eating the Oreos and coming back, lol!


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## Jenks (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm glad you're not leaving the forum! Your opinions and advice have been very helpful to me as I was starting up last fall. I appreciate you and thank you!


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

No condoning but curious on how you can claim ownership on rhinestoning a Route 66 road sign?? 

I may be missing the point here but that just jumped out at me when I looked at the designs.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

dazzabling said:


> Oh Oreos and ice cream always make things better


I see. I'm having some oreos and ice cream right now. With strawberries but not served outside down.



treadhead said:


> No condoning but curious on how you can claim ownership on rhinestoning a Route 66 road sign??
> 
> I may be missing the point here but that just jumped out at me when I looked at the designs.


It is not the route 66 road sign but your version or artistic rendition of it. It can be a photograph, a sketch, or a rhinestone design of it. That is how I understand it and would be glad to hear more authoritative opinions on this.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BroJames said:


> It is not the route 66 road sign but your version or artistic rendition of it. It can be a photograph, a sketch, or a rhinestone design of it. That is how I understand it and would be glad to hear more authoritative opinions on this.


I'm not sure your theory makes practical sense... Following your theory couldn't one make the same argument about any copyrighted design?...

Say I wanted to do an Elvis shirt... I just make one whatever I like and those that own the rights to Elvis and his image and likeness are SOL because my design is my artistic rendition?

I want to do a design of an M&M character and I'm in the clear because it's my artistic rendition? Never mind the fact that Mars owns the copyright to M&M's and it's characters?

What really frustrates me is MANY of us here are a bit hypocritical.

Will at Rhinestone Artwork got all excited because a web designer I had hired "copied" one of "his" designs when doing a mock up for me because I had given my web designer his website as well as others as references and my web designer for whatever reason picked an image from his website for the mock-up he did for me...

So he get's all excited about it and then I call him out for actually stealing a design from another member and then yet another member claims he stole their designs too!

And yet if you look around just a little bit you'll see there are MANY members on here with designs on their website that are clearly in violation of copyright... It's actually pretty common...

So as long as we don't steal a design from a member here it's OK if we "borrow" someone else's designs Say Elvis, NFL, Nascar whatever... At least that's what I'm seeing...

Some would argue that Route 66 is in the public domain... But one quick Google search would reveal another whole story...

Alleged Infringement

IN my mind "copyright" actually means nothing... I can copy, borrow create whatever I like when I like... But understanding doing so does put me at risk if I copy borrow, duplicate a design that someone else is going to claim as theirs and actually assert their right to take me to court over the matter...

Check this article out...

Barack Obama "Hope" poster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean with copyright you could sight a 1000 examples... In the end none of it really means anything unless you are standing in a court room...

Kevin


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Is the _route 66 road sign_ copyrighted?


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## Artsplace-CBR (Feb 22, 2007)

I see all over in different sites where people are using Disney & other copywrighted characters.


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## Hegemone (Oct 18, 2011)

Just because it's available does not mean its ethical or even legal. A lot of people take a calculated risk and steal art on the assumption that they will not get sued. They assume someone will send a cease letter before filing suit. While these people may get away with it they are flat out wrong and stealing from people like you and me who create for a living. People who borrow or steal art are poor business people and are just out to take people's money. The practice is "bottom of the barrel" and raises the question "how else are they screwing their customers?"

My two cents. Toss them in a well and make a wish.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BroJames said:


> Is the _route 66 road sign_ copyrighted?


Depends who you ask I guess... I know the folks over at Route 66 - Feel the Freedom - Intro sure thinks it is...

Kevin


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

If Route 66 is also a brand then it should be copyrighted - if it is copyrightable.

But I also saw in their intro video the Hollywood sign over which the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce has copyright ownership. 
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/business-finance/t182365.html

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nhl/...han-bernier-giving-hollywood-sign-goalie-mask


Tit for tat? Or simply confusing?


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## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

If I wear one of my own company shirts and then stand buy the route 66 sign, take a picture, and put it on my website in a video, a video in which Im advertising my shirt brand. Is that Copyright Infringment. YES But If you put that same picture on my site under my blog and just put "I had a great trip to Route 66" under it but I am not using it as advertising. Is that Infringment??. YES because its still on a business or company page in which you are selling a product. I say this because like Katruax says Copyrights mean nothing. People with low morals do not pay to have original art or ideas they pay to find out the risk of being sued. "A fence is made to keep Honest people honest" think of the copyright as a "fence"


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

HELP! I'm frustrated!

So Will over at Rhinestone Artwork Rhinestone Artwork - Rhinestone Artwork just sent me a PM... Asking me to PUBLICLY retract my comments on the forum that "implied" he stole designs from other individuals and or companies and that my comments show a lock of understanding on the designs in question and of the creation. He also stated that I showed a callous disregard for his rights?...

Now here is what I don't get.... I paid money to Will for Rhinestone Designs... at least one of those designs Matt at The Rhinestone World caims it was the exact same design and it belonged to him. Will has since removed that design from his website. So one can only draw the conclusion that in fact it was Matt's design? Not just a recreation of the design but the actual design file because Matt stated as such.

Then Carol from SlickArt starts this post and she too claimed that Will had designs of hers or at least similar designs of hers on his website and she asked him to remove them and he took no action... It was only after this post that apparently she did get some action and those designs that she had originally posted a screen shot of, have since been removed from his website.

Now I totally agree there is no point in "bashing" anyone or any business... But I do think it's totally fair to state facts however unpleasant they may be because without that information we may unknowingly choose to do business with a company we otherwise wouldn't had we known about the experiences of others. I'm not talking about Will's business specifically but in general.

I guess I took Will's PM as a bit of a "threat" otherwise why not just post the very same request publicly here? If he was totally innocent and was not in the wrong in the least and it was all a simple misunderstanding as he implied in his PM then why not just state that right here and those other parties in question would back up his claim and that would be that.

So for now I can't publicly apologize for my statements because they were 100% factual.

Respectfully,

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BroJames said:


> Tit for tat? Or simply confusing?


I vote CONFUSING... That's why I was saying copyright "doesn't matter" actually it does but what we think about copyright doesn't matter because the law is such a gray area...

The deal on the Obama Poster example... I would of never thought that making a drawing or a painting based on a photo taken by another person, that person could then claim at least partial ownership of the drawing or painting. because the subject photo was theirs.. I would of never guessed that... But apparently because of the law they can... and did in the case of the Obama Poster.

Kevin


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

treadhead said:


> No condoning but curious on how you can claim ownership on rhinestoning a Route 66 road sign??
> 
> I may be missing the point here but that just jumped out at me when I looked at the designs.


Don't have a clue what you are talking about. My issue never included anything having to do with a "route 66 road sign". What designs are you looking at. Lord knows I don't need folks beating me up for trying to claim something like that. There's not enough Oreos and ice cream in this world to make that better


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

allhamps said:


> Don't have a clue what you are talking about. My issue never included anything having to do with a "route 66 road sign".


I can't say for certain but I didn't take the comment by *treadhead *to be directed at you specifically. They did leave it kind of up in the air as to who the comment was directed at though so I can certainly see how you would of drawn that conclusion.

But you're certainly right the designs you questioned have apparently been removed.

Kevin


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

1 thing I do is save a copy of the design. Print 1 with the date on pic with a time stamp not just adding it in text. Although most designs I do are custom for individual customers and don't resell premade designs. this just a precaution if someone copy's it then I have a file and print with date if they can't provide a file with an earlier date then proof is on my side. I know this can be falsified but can be easily detected


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