# What about dye sub with laser toner?



## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

I no longer will dye sub with inks. I just had way too many print head clogs, and too many downtimes as a result. 

I never considered laser dye sub toner before, but it sure sounds inviting. 

Is anyone doing dye sub with the laser dye sub toner?

Is there a noticeable color difference (from inks)?

Can you really transfer to 100% cotton (as some claim), and if so, is there a noticeable hand to the shirt? 

What brand printer are you using for dye sub toner?

I'm considering an Oki 3200 or 5200 if this appears to be viable alternative.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Dye sub toners work okay...but I do not believe you can sublimate on 100 % cotton...I have seen it tried and it is not what I would use...just personal choice...and the ones I tested...not lasers...washed out more than I found acceptable.

I think Bobbi on the forum does laser dye sub..not sure but someone here does that.

I think that like with inkjets...there are just a few that dye sub toner is aavailable for


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

My understanding is that you can sublimate onto 100% cotton, but not the way dye sub usually works. I believe it's special paper or special ink - Chromoblast? - which allows this. But the feedback I get is that the paper leaves a "box" around the image, which doesn't leave until the garment is washed (Not good if you're selling a shirt with the box look).


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## Bringselpup (Oct 10, 2007)

Chromablast is a product for inkjet printers. The OP is talking about a dye sub process that has been developed for use with Okidata laser printers. The manufacturer is loading the cartridges with dye sub toner and you print your transfer with the laser printer. I recently bought the entire system, both a full color and an all white and am working on getting it all up and running now. I've only made a few dozen shirts so far but the quality seems pretty good to me on the Hanes Softlink. The manufacturer says 50/50 cotton poly will work and recommends Jerzees 29M. I'm getting spotty quality with them but as I said I've only made a very few so far and I am getting better at it. 

For me though I bought for the same reason as the OP. I was not going to deal with clogged print heads and bulk ink plumbing. It looked like too much mess and hassle.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Bringselpup.. I also have both systems..hte oki data dyesub toners and the white toners..
.. I hve not had much time to play aroundwith the white.. but i do the dyesub all the time with the laser toners.. on light garments that are 50 50 blends..


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Sue,

How would you rate the quality of the laser dye sub on 50/50 vs. all poly? And do you have to use preps or special paper on the 50/50? What about the poly - special paper?






mystysue said:


> Bringselpup.. I also have both systems..hte oki data dyesub toners and the white toners..
> .. I hve not had much time to play aroundwith the white.. but i do the dyesub all the time with the laser toners.. on light garments that are 50 50 blends..


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## Bringselpup (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Sue,

I spent some time reading here before buying and I could tell you had the oki's. And what I saw was part of my decision to go this route instead. Now that they are up and running I thought it was time to sign up and get to it!


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

go10.....
to be completely honest.. I have never transfered to 100% poly shirts.. ive done mouse pads and such but not shirts.. Ive only printed to 50/50 and some 100% cottons.. ..
I have two types of paper i use with my system.. One is a release paper for soft goods.. and one is a glossy paper that can be used for fabrics, and is used for hard goods also.. ..


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

I read the Oki5200 sucks on color quality.

I may need to check my notes on and see if the ICC might have been the the reason. 

*examples:*(forgot to use ICC, or did not know or think it was needed, or thought it was turned on(ICM switch in software) but it was not, ...)

...and have inquired if anyone may recommend another Oki under $500.
Oki5800 is out of my budget now.

I had my mind made up I would get an Oki5200 I am now looking at the 3400... since the 3400 was the fix for all the problems of the 3200.

Can anyone confirm the Oki C3400 will be ok?


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

I dont remember who sells that tandem setup with the white... but I do remember a sour taste from it in the yahoo forums... there are some nasty reviews on that system especially the white and I hear many are being dumped on ebay...

I am a startup... too risky... am not touching it


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

Nic,

I know that ASI sells a white toner setup for the Oki. However, you must have a printer dedicated to white; cleaning up between white and colors is too much hassle. This means 2 Oki's - 1 color and 1 white toner. I'm not aware of this being dumped on Ebay; at least, I haven't seen it. 

I'd like some feedback on the Oki's - 3200, 5200, etc. - in terms of color reproduction and use for sublimation, or with problems related to these printers. Nic, what kinds of problems did you experience? If proper color profiles are used, is there still a problem with colors, or with transfer to hard/soft goods using the Oki laser toner?

I'm in the process of getting ready to buy a laser toner system.


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## Bringselpup (Oct 10, 2007)

I've done both so far and while I'm hardly an expert it's looking like the 50/50 may actually be going to provide the better quality. And at 1/3 the cost of a Hanes Softlink.


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## Bringselpup (Oct 10, 2007)

go10go4 said:


> Nic,
> 
> I'm not aware of this being dumped on Ebay; at least, I haven't seen it.


Agreed. In all my research (over a year) I never once saw this system on Ebay. New or otherwise.


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

Brings,

What printer are you using? What kind of paper are you using for the 50/50?





Bringselpup said:


> Agreed. In all my research (over a year) I never once saw this system on Ebay. New or otherwise.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

I have no problems with my colors on the 5200... and have had no problems with either of my 5200 systems.. .. 
NIc.. Doesnt have a printer.. Hes just going by things he has seen.. but you have to be careful sometimes reading forums.. .. There are alot that put systems down but have never tried them.. .. I use the color profiles supplied by the toner maker.. and my colors come out great.. .. 

Brings.. I think the 50/50 give the best results too.. I have a shirt here that i did on dark grey that i used the white toner as the base then printed the colors.. and it really pops.. I am still in the experimenting stage with the white toner.. as I am so short of time.. that in say 8 months ive only really tried 4 shirts, using the white. Ill have to take a picture of the last shirt i did.. but the camera is at the shop..


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

NicMartel said:


> ...and have inquired if anyone may recommend another Oki under $500.
> Oki5800 is out of my budget now.


Oki5500 $399 AR at Staples this week.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Nic have you checked to see if anyone supplies laser dyesub toner for those models???


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

NicMartel said:


> Can anyone confirm the Oki C3400 will be ok?



I took the 3400 back because of poor photographic color reproduction. I upgraded to the 5500 and had the same issues, with the added issue of an annoying driver bug...so I took that one back. I'm just using my 8800 for everything now.

I was talking to Big Ed the other day and he suggested that my color issues may have been ICC related. The 3400 and 5500 do not have a pro graphic mode like the 8800. The 5800 might. Pro graphic mode maps the screen profile to the C8800 internal ICC profile. Big Ed suggested that the C3400 and C5500 could have been printing from the most recently installed ICC profile, since there is no way to tell the driver which profile to use. In my case this would have been the Artanium ICC profile.

Note that the printer driver does not install an ICC profile on your PC. The profile exists inside the printer. When you select pro graphic mode, the image is sent to the printer and the ICC color correction is done in the printer. This can take up to a minute on a large 60MB or so image. This differs from inkjet ICC profiles, which are installed on the PC and can be selected from the print dialog. The C8800 profile does not appear on the print dialog and a resident ICC profile on your PC.


In Photoshop you can "let printer determine colors" or "let PS determine colors" If you select the latter and select the screen profile, that should override anything that the driver is doing. I think I tried this and it didn't help, but I can't remember. I printer a ream of paper through both printers trying to get a decent print and tried just about every possible setting.


I did try both printers on three different PC's...But all three PC's are set up the same with the Artanium ICC profile. I think the C3400 and C5500 are OK for color sep images, but not for photos. Knowing what I know now, if I had to buy a printer and could not afford the C8800, I would buy an Epson R1400 inkjet. There are some nice laser papers out there, but if you can't print a decent image on them, what's the point?


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Ross, can you post some samples of these color issues you're having? I think it's good that you're posting about this to warn people, but having something tangible might be even more useful. 

Is it only an issue when doing photos? 

Can you avoid all this buy creating a custom icc profile?  I think windows allows you to assign one to a printer.

I think the 5500 is a bargain at the moment, but I'm color blind and I don't do photographic reproduction. I've found that the vast majority of people are not super critical of color accuracy. How far off are the colors?


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

I know with my 5200 there is a custom color profile that you can get when get the toner.. I just click to print with that profile when i print out of photoshop or corel..


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Did a little digging and found that ICC profiles are cheap nowadays. For $40 you can get one made. I think it's worth the effort. Brings the cost of the printer to a whopping $440.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Ack, hit send too quickly...

I think we're getting off topic. The dye sub toners should have an ICC profile that you should use. It should take care of any color problems as the internal profiling will be disabled.

I'll continue the 5500 icc profile talk in this threadhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t29726.html.


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

Make certain whatever laser printer you buy has dye sub toners available. If you try to do dye sub, but nobody's making toner for it, you'll be dead in the water.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Ross, can you post some samples of these color issues you're having?


The color issues are not drastic and if you're not doing photos and are not an anal retentive perfectionist, you'll probably be happy with the printer. Both the 3400 and the 5500 were fine with on photographic artwork. I work mostly with photos and when a customer gives me a photo to print on a shirt, mug...whatever, I want that photo reproduced exactly. When I'm working a show with a competing t-shirt printer, that's what will give me the edge. My prints will be perfect while his are "good enough"..and there is a noticeable difference between perfect and good enough.

The problems were mostly saturation issues. I think the color was actually better with the 3400. Both had the same over saturation thing going on. The reason I took the 3400 back was because I thought the 5500 was different technology, same as the 8800. I thought that would solve all of the problems. Turns out the 3400 and 5500 use the same print technology, so the problem existed in both printers.

The 3400 is single sheet feed which is a pain. The 5500 MP tray is multi sheet feed, but it jammed almost every print which was even more of a pain.

I don't have any print samples left. I put my misprints in a bin at the shows and sell them for $4. Most of them would look OK to the average untrained eye. Some are color/saturation issues and some are peeling issues.

When I talked to Oki, all they said was that "It is not a photo printer".


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## Bringselpup (Oct 10, 2007)

go10go4 said:


> Brings,
> 
> What printer are you using? What kind of paper are you using for the 50/50?


The system I got is two C3200 printers. One is set up for color and one has all white in it. The paper supplied says TransGloss on the package.

There are ICC profiles supplied for download and it may be important to note that the manufacturer seems to indicate the toner is made for the 3200, 5150 and 5200 series Okidata printers.

Unless greenlighted by the mfr, anything else may not give you the best results.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Bringsel.,... I use that paper for hard goods primary and when i use the white i use it.... I use the regular release paper from ati when doing the shirts most of the time.. as the transgloss is a bit shiney..


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

I thought that with dye sublimation -- and dye in general -- you could only produce colors darker than the material you are dying. Is there such a thing as "white dye"?


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

the white isnt really dye.. its more like a base?? hard to really explain i guess.. but its a white base .. kinda like the same as the white in dtg..


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