# Getting some sales and momentum!



## OffYaRocker.com (Nov 5, 2009)

Hi guys, right we have been live for around 3 months now and we have only had a few sales so far and have really not gained much momentum. 

We have a good product, a unique brand message, a fairly ok website, we are featured on a few major uk websites, we have done some flyers, some business cards, some exhibitions, soon to do some markets as online is not going so well. We have run a few ads through the student demographic, we have treid adwords, facebook ads, ebay ads, everything, spent copious amounts of money and really not getting anywhere!

I am so confused about where to go next!

Any help would be greatly appreciated, check out the website if you want in my sig!


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Hand some out at a local skate park, just get some out there to be worn and seen. Try to go to some local teen or school events and sell them as a vendor. The issue with the online marketing is that your demographic (young teens) don't do much online shopping. They really don't do any shopping, their parents buy everything for them. So you need to be where the kids are, so they can ask their parents to buy them a shirt.


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## OffYaRocker.com (Nov 5, 2009)

Interesting how you see them for young teenagers, as I dont? The designs are more complicated and thoughtful than that market, they just like colour and the look where as we have actually put some thought into our designs and some of them have a pretty deep message.


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## SMB Printing (Nov 30, 2009)

I think Kimura-mma has the right idea as far as getting product out on the streets. Im not sure what age demographic you are particularly targeting, but I would maybe guess the range of 16 to 21ish. I visited your site and had a bit of a hard time seeing exactly what the design on each tee was because i felt the picture was a tad too small. Again, I really think it would be a great idea to go to skateparks and do product tosses, as well as show up to any event in the area and show off the new product.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

OffYaRocker.com said:


> Interesting how you see them for young teenagers, as I dont? The designs are more complicated and thoughtful than that market, they just like colour and the look where as we have actually put some thought into our designs and some of them have a pretty deep message.


Sorry, my initial reaction was that you were targeting a younger crowd. The artwork struck me as similar to the brands seen in Zumiez, Journey's or PacSun, not Karmaloop, Metropark or Buckle.

I still think you can benefit from getting some stuff out there in person. Look into doing giveaways at concerts, bars, clubs, etc. If you can be a vendor at these events, that's even better.


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## Optiq (Oct 13, 2009)

The problem is you're relying too much on luck to make things happen. Sure you're putting advertisement all over the place, but it's nothing but something to look at, if they even give it the time of day. What you need to do is start organizing situations, push for the customers to take part in something, get them active. If all you do is stand there and look pretty all they're going to do is look at how pretty you are until they're immune to it. DON'T GIVE YOUR SHIRTS AWAY FOR FREE!!!!!!!!! Even if you do give them away free, don't let it be seen that way, make people win them or something, have more to it than just giving them out to people because that will ruin your credibility. When you're just walking around giving stuff away people see that as desperate, if you're desperate you must not be all that great. People don't want to be seen in something that will tinge them the same way. Maybe come up with a survey containing questions you can work off of and give them a free t shirt for doing so, or have them sign up for some special membership and give them a free t shirt for signing up, or a coupon for a percentage off. Allways put more foot work to it and push for interaction, ESPECIALLY SURVEYS!! You'd be amazed at what little things you notice goes between hundreds of people that you can play off of. Force some kind of interaction out of them.


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## EnMartian (Feb 14, 2008)

First thing that struck me was that I hit your front page and didn't see any product. What I saw was a percent off promotion for product I haven't even seen yet. If I wanted to see product I had to click relatively small links to get to the proper page. You're trying to sell product so make that the focus of your site. 

Also, who is your target market, do you know? Based on the models and the design of the site I'd say younger kids and streetwear, especially when coupled with the skateboard stuff. If that's not who you think your target market is, then you need to look at the design of your site and what you're offering. If that is your target market, do you know where those people go online and in the real world? Those are the places you need to be. Knowing your target demographic is key. You can do all the giveaways, promotions and marketing you want, if you're not talking to the right people, it won't matter. 

Another tool you're sadly neglecting is your blog. It isn't updated often, or appears not to be, and it's fairly boring when compared to the rest of the site. Also, there's no blogroll. There must be other blogs that are doing similar things to what you're doing. Find them, comment on them, and add them to your blogroll. A blog can be a great way to get recognized and listed by the search engines. Make use of it.


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## OffYaRocker.com (Nov 5, 2009)

well i just updated the blog and iv looked all over it to try and link it to other relevant blogs but dont know how? Is this even possible on blogspot?


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## EnMartian (Feb 14, 2008)

There should be a links section , or they may even have a widget for making a blogroll. I've been forever since I used Blogger, so I'm not really remembering how it's done. 

Here's a video that shows you how to create a blogroll.


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## BostonKnucklehed (Sep 26, 2008)

For starters its only been three months. Some of the biggest brands did not see any bit of success for years. Just stick with everything you are doing and be patient. Brands take time to grow.


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## OffYaRocker.com (Nov 5, 2009)

to be honest, your right and I know it takes a long time, but every business has expenses and needs to stay afloat! I am not expected waves of customers, but I want to try and at least get some sought of income for the business


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Just to emphasize previous post - I too was unclear what the product was from the home page. All you see is "discount". As stated before you are selling designs not shirts and you really can not see the designs on the shirts - way too small. You are finding out what so many people before you have found out and many after will as well - creating a product, any product, is simple. Selling them is an art into itself. people always wonder why salespeople are paid so much - this is a prime example. Personally I would never create a product or a business unless I have them sold first. Hoping against hope someone will buy my idea is wishful thinking.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

On-line Jerseys said:


> You are finding out what so many people before you have found out and many after will as well - creating a product, any product, is simple. Selling them is an art into itself. people always wonder why salespeople are paid so much - this is a prime example. Personally I would never create a product or a business unless I have them sold first. Hoping against hope someone will buy my idea is wishful thinking.


Wow... very well said.


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

People buy tees because the just look cool, or have a message that resonates with them, or are funny. Your designs do a little of all, and not enough of any. Offer some variety. You have the splat thing down, now offer more . You are selling to basically one customer right now. Check out teeshirthell. designs are not as complcated , not as artsy, but each shirt says something NOW...to a variety of potential customers .
How long could the Beatles live on one song, as good as they were 

track you hits by design if possible, and ask for feedback from buyers...not just us


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## Lish (Jan 25, 2009)

OffYaRocker.com said:


> Hi guys, right we have been live for around 3 months now and we have only had a few sales so far and have really not gained much momentum.
> 
> We have a good product, a unique brand message, a fairly ok website, we are featured on a few major uk websites, we have done some flyers, some business cards, some exhibitions, soon to do some markets as online is not going so well. We have run a few ads through the student demographic, we have treid adwords, facebook ads, ebay ads, everything, spent copious amounts of money and really not getting anywhere!
> 
> ...


I know exactly how you feel, I also started a t-shirt company lately www.rhetoriclife.com almost a year now, I've tried facebook, twitter, youtube, etc, but I'm not getting the conversions I'm hoping for. I'm blaming it to the economy for the most part, but still I feel there is something out there that I haven't figured out yet. I know I have to spend some money on marketing, but I just don't know how to.


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## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

@Lish:
I find it strange that you're struggling with getting sales. In my opinion your shirts are unique and the site looks professional and fits to the whole design. 

I could imagine that you're targeting the wrong people. Can you specify who your average customer would be?


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

Here is my quick response to people wanting traffic and "buzz" that will bring others to your website.


Facebook pretty much is boring.. BORING!

Just my opinion but good lord it's so friggen boring.

Get a Myspace page set up with your background
and make it a sister site to your webpage.

Take the time to find people that are interested in
your product and become FRIENDS with them.

Go into their friends list and see others with 
the same interest and become friends with them.

Don't be super aggressive but you want to 
learn how to use myspace to your advantage.

A friend of mine has almost 4000 friends and
he can send out a bulletin to all of them with
information about new products with the click
of the keyboard.

When he posts new pictures in his profile then
everyone that is in his friends list sees them
also like facebook.

You need to grow a myspace page and send
out comments to your friends and advise them
of what you have new and on sale. 

It takes work but Myspace is free and it will bring
traffic to your website as well.

Put a photo on your myspace page that is a clickable LINK
that tells people.. click here to see our website!

Put clickable Photo links on your Myspace page that
go to your website.

It works for many if you take about 20 minutes a
day and grow it like a virtual garden of customers.



Did I mention that facebook is boring?

If anyone has any doubts about the power of Myspace then
I have two words for you. 

TAYLOR SWIFT

She started off posting her songs on her page and grew
a following so large that she is now one of the top
country singers in the world. She still to this day goes
on her page and responds to people even with hundreds
of thousands of fans. She was about 16 when this all started
for her.




Hope that helps.

If not then at least it costs you .. about nothing
and you get your name out there.




Ed


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## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

IMAO facebook maybe not as colorful as myspace but that's also its strength. 
When I wanna talk about stuff concerning an artist or a product, I like FB because it's just not as loud and crazy as myspace. It keeps me focused on the information and discussions. 
Why not having both? MySpace getting traffic and maybe putting your name out there and also to build your brand with music and graphics. FB on the other hand to really get into a conversation in a more structured way than via Twitter.


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## OffYaRocker.com (Nov 5, 2009)

You say our product pictures are not visible enough but when you click on the picture you see 2 other zommed in really close pictures of the design. It could net really get any clearer. I kind of agree with you about the range we have, they are all fairly complicated and generic designs and may not suit most people. I probably need to get some simple and more interesting designs. The only reason I went down the route of thoughtful design was to be unique and different. But it seems following the crowd is sometimes best!


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

great post Ed.
too many e-options to manage well. Pick one and own it, as you said , daily.

But ...It ALL starts with great product.
If Taylor Swift would not have been different even if she was noticed, she would still be waiting tables.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

OffYaRocker.com said:


> I probably need to get some simple and more interesting designs. The only reason I went down the route of thoughtful design was to be unique and different. But it seems following the crowd is sometimes best!


Yeah, it's definitely a huge challenge to try to get the average consumer to understand and appreciate artistic vision. I think there is a lot of value in having a themed brand and consistency throughout the product line. But there seems to be a lot of hidden meaning behind the brand AND hidden meaning behind the designs. So that's a lot to figure out, making it difficult for the average consumer to make a connection with your brand. It can be a downer, as an artist, to have to simplify your artistic vision, but think of it more as trying to make a simple and direct connection with your audience. Then as you build that audience, you can get more thoughtful and unique.


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

Tim ,
I have a humorous greeting card company www.thegreetingplace.com and we have learned that if a word has 3 syllables in it , it is a slow seller. The markets are the " aim low " segment or the " money is no object" segment....the middle is a hard to please diversified hodge podge


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## OffYaRocker.com (Nov 5, 2009)

guys, I have changed the homepage now to be more inviting to buy and get to the products more easily! what do you guys think? http://www.offyarocker.com


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

Offyarocker,

I would put the good looking girls in Tshirts at the top of the page.

It's all about grabbin the eyes.



Regarding Myspace and Facebook




I think some people think Myspace and Facebook
are pretty much the same thing. They are far from
it in my opinion.

I notice that Facebook is stronger in some
countries but in the U.S. it seems that 
Myspace is king.



I know that Myspace pages normally show
up on the first page when people search
for your company name and EVERY friend
on Myspace that has you as a friend has
your company name added to the search
results.

The all powerful google is in charge of
adds on Myspace so take that for what
it is worth.


If someone can show me a Facebook page that
will grab the attention of people between the
ages of 12 and 25 I sure would love to see it.


The music, graphics and you name it are what
bring young people to Myspace. 

One more thing about Myspace Vs Facebook

Myspace allows you to have the entire side of
the page filled with photos of your T-shirts
or whatever. You can make them clickable
links to go directly to your website for ordering.


Facebook as far as I know does NOT allow this
and that is just part of my feeling that it is boring.


You could take every model photo and run them
down the side of your myspace page and they would
run alongside your friends section.



Go grab the demographic that you are trying to
reach and see what they are using and what
keeps them interested.


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

Regarding getting more traffic to your website.



I did several google searches for

Nottingham t shirts screen printing

and a mix of all of the above and your site is
not showing up in the first pages.


I would strongly suggest adding key words
and placing text in your page titles and header.

The fact that a search for offyarocker comes
up with your facebook page at the TOP of the
google list and your actual page comes in
several spots down means you need to
tweek your site a bit.

I would say that you need to add more key words
that describe the area that you work in also.

When someone picks up a phone book and looks
for a local plumber they want one in their area.

Plumber, Nottingham, UK


When they want a Plumber and do a search online
they use the same criteria.

Your key words should be in the IE bar at the top
and throught the page as well as in the meta tags.

Pull up your website and look at the words that
show up at the very top of your screen in the
blue bar when using IE for each page. You are not
taking advantage of this valuable section of your
page to push your key words.

Just something to think about.

and my 2 cents are worth.. . bout 2 cents.


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## shirtsthatgo (May 4, 2009)

Good discussion. This is getting into SEO. Check out the SEO related threads and do some reading. 

Enjoy, it is fascinating stuff.


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

This has been an enjoyable spiraling read...some of my thoughts briefly are:

- SEO, as said get on it, read about it and implement it..I would recommend watching this as well Timberooni live on Watch Tee V – SEO Tips & Blog Strategy | AssaultBLOG 

- Blogs, show that you are up and running and a "real person" if updated regularly and are also a useful addition to your SEO effort as you can create back links using chosen keywords - again see above video

- Facebook/MySpace/Twitter etc, in general social media can't be overlooked in any platform. You have to get your hands dirty and churn out elbow grease and "content"..get your brand name out there and use social media to build your brands personality, let people know who you are and why you do what you do etc..it builds trust, relationships (not just with potential customers but with bloggers, t-shirt lovers etc who can all help by blogging about you etc) and networks that will spread your brand name..

- Website, make it easy to use, show pictures clearly and make them grab the viewers attention. Also, make it easy for viewers to check out your social media worlds and join..

Well, thats just a few things that jumped at me from reading, ultimately I think its down to application and determination, become a stat junkie, set your targets and hit them..good luck...


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## Lish (Jan 25, 2009)

marcmarcmarc said:


> @Lish:
> I find it strange that you're struggling with getting sales. In my opinion your shirts are unique and the site looks professional and fits to the whole design.
> 
> I could imagine that you're targeting the wrong people. Can you specify who your average customer would be?


Eventhough we have a much bigger and stronger collection for men, the mayority of our customer are women shopping in the men collection, I'm assuming boyfriend gifts. We actually don't have our customers age information, but we think our clothing is appropiate to a target of 18-35.
I know I need to invest in marketing, but I'm just not comfortable doing that yet, because I'm not sure where to start and how much???? I'm a complete amatour when it comes to marketing I guess, I understand the importance of it, but I want to be able to see the investment reflected in my conversions, and so far I haven't been able to find someone that can give me those numbers....


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## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

@Lish: 
Please don't start putting money for marketing out there. just to have something invested in marketing. First of all, you need to specify your average customer way more detailed. 
Try summarize what basic idea stands behind your brand. And then try to find out who might get attracted to such an idea the most. Figure out as much as possible from age to education, intelligence and basic lifestyle and even the principles and values they have. 
Please don't just throw money on typical marketing things, this forum contains an amazing collection of very cheap and still very effective marketing actions. I would say your problem isn't the money you spent on marketing, it is the direction your going with your marketing.

EDIT:
Sometimes return on investment is hard to measure in marketing. But for online-shirt-businesses it shouldn't be that hard. 
For example: Always put " How did you find us" in the registration process and specify the options as much as possible. Also put different coupon codes out there - for FB not the same as for MySpace or Twitter and so on. You can see the coupons as your marketing investment as the information you will collect from them is highly valuable. Another coupon tip would be to hand out coupon-codes to give-away to very loud or very heavy customers that seem to be very satisfied. Maybe a lot of your word-of-mouth profit is generated through them. 

There are many methods to measure your investments.


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

And one last opinion and note about Facebook vs Myspace.



Think about this one long and hard if you are serious
about your marketing strategy and getting
your products seen by everyone.


If I don't have a Facebook account can I see your Facebook page?

The answer is a big fat NO! (at least for the vast majority of FB pages)

Log out of your Facebook account and go back
and try to see your Facebook page.



If I don't have a Myspace page can I see any page on Myspace?

the answer is a big fat YES !

It's visible 24/7/365 to everyone getting my name out to everyone on the
internet like a neon sign that stays on after you close up shop.


So, Why would you put all this time and energy
into a site that restricts access to potential customers
and REQUIRES them to create an account
before I can even see your page? 

You are marketing to a closed and restricted audience.


In my opinion, Facebook is for families and
friends to keep track of each other. It's not
business friendly and never was intended to
be a place to show your products. It has
it's place in business but it's not set up FOR 
business.



Things that make you say hmmmmmmm


Did I mention that I think Facebook is boring?

And I am still waiting for someone to show me a FB page
that can compare to a well designed MS page and keep
the younger visitors attention.



Just a few more shekels.


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## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

Yes you are right, it is for a restricted audience. But since there are already millions of people in FB, chances are good that a lot of potential customers are able to see your page.
And again, for you FB is boring. In my case, I like it more when it comes to discussion - talking from a customer side now. And if I do, there are probably other folks that also do. 
It's just a more serious enviroment than MySapce and threads in this forum show that it is also able to generate traffic. 
So why not build a FB and a MySpace site? It doesn't take that much effort to maintain a FB site.


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

I do agree that you should use both, however, FB
is not the high gloss magazine that will grab your
eye and we are talking about marketing & advertising.

To me it's the difference between advertising in the 
Sunday newspaper or in Rolling Stone.



If there is a Facebook page out there that I am
missing that can compare to this >

MySpace - Ed Hardy Clothing - 51 - Male - LOS ANGELES, California - myspace.com/EdHardy


Then please someone show me this FB page
(of course I will have to log back into FB to see it)
I could be wrong but haven't found one yet.

My point to all of this is you want to get your products out
and Visible to as many people as possible and I haven't found
a FB page that can be turned into a one stop billboard with
your products on the front page and in the open.

Myspace allows you to put your products out there and
is a free site that can sister your website and bring traffic
to it. It's free advertising around the world and to not take
advantage of it is just .. well.. crazy. The entire main page
of MS is for you to create with color and graphics and your
products clearly visible to all that stop by.

I tell people all the time here who are debating about building
a website and have little knowledge on the process to simply
make the first step and spend the $10 and buy the domain name
for their company and FORWARD it to a Myspace page and build a web presence.







If FB is creating a buzz for your products and is working
for people then that is great to. I am looking at the amount
of effort each one takes to create and "garden" and the 
results of that effort. If 50 percent of the people can't
even find the FB page on the internet then it's not worth
as much energy as MS.





.


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## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

Ok let's put it this way: 
MySpace is better in most disciplines. But that's no reason for not having a FB-page (especially because it's really not a big thing to create one).


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Just a quick point about the facebook pages not being visible to non facebook users - that is true for personal pages but fanpages are accessible to all, registered with FB or not..

Checked out the Ed Hardy page and didn't like it..I prefer Facebook as its a lot cleaner with less "clutter" but that said I do maintain (or at least use) a myspace page as well..no reason not to use all of them..


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

The agruement on which format, MySpace or Facebook, provides the best looking pages is really pointless. The key issue is which format does your target audience use. You can create the greatest web page, MySpace page, etc., etc., and if no one sees it what have you accomplished? Example, my 18 year old son and his group are all Facebook. The only time they go to MySpace is in regards to bands. To be succesful you have to disregard your personal preference and listen to your target audience.


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## sociallyaccept (Dec 11, 2009)

Has anyone ever just handed a bunch out with maybe their website somehow address attached to it? I'm trying this thing where I hand so many out to people who will wear them to see if that number will come back to me in sales. My profit margin is still big enough to cover both but barely.


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

Ladyumbrella,

I am curious as to why you are not taking full
advantage of Myspace and have no photos of 
your products on your main page.

It is extremely simple to get an online image host
and place them in a neat row down the left side
of the page.


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Ye, you are right...have put one up now and will put one up daily...thanks for being the catalyst..


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

Looks great Rob.


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## TeesForChange (Jan 17, 2007)

I don't see a link to SHOP anywhere on your site. I see men, women, etc. but nothing that says SHOP. You should make it really clear how someone can actually buy your products. And I find the background a bit distracting - too bright and too much going on. There's also no description of your product once you click on the actual product page. Are the t-shirts made of cotton, polyester, do they run small or true to size. The more product description you add to your site, the better. 

Your photography and shirts are great, though!


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## artistj (Dec 11, 2009)

ladyumbrella said:


> Ye, you are right...have put one up now and will put one up daily...thanks for being the catalyst..


Lady Umbrella,
I just checked out your site and I must say that I love your style. Keep it up.


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Hey Artistj, thanks for that - always nice to hear..


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## Blazed T (Nov 12, 2006)

The agruement on which format, MySpace or Facebook, provides the best looking pages is really pointless. The key issue is which format does your target audience use. You can create the greatest web page, MySpace page, etc., etc., and if no one sees it what have you accomplished? Example, my 18 year old son and his group are all Facebook. The only time they go to MySpace is in regards to bands. To be succesful you have to disregard your personal preference and listen to your target audience.

Very wise, and good advise!

Problem is...

How to find the time and energy to stay on top of all this posting, blogging, mass emails, organizing events, planning shows, tweaking the website, OH YEA!!!! AND still creating new designs and ideas, while maintaining the day to day operations of running a webstie, orders, emails. I"M EXHAUSTED!


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## artistj (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree with you on figuring out how to juggle all of those elements of advertising. This is when you recruit folks to assit you. This is what i'm going to try and do next.


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## topsy cret (Mar 3, 2009)

I agree with using both..Im not doing so rite now but I will soon. Although I do have to say..Myspace is purely filled with spam! I don't no how you could disagree.


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## Blazed T (Nov 12, 2006)

We've done quite a few biker rallies to sell our garments since that is our initial target market, but has been EXPENSIVE! Cash flow can be good at some rallies, but is like playing roulette. We have found that you only have a second or two to capture someones attention. What are you doing, Offyarocker, to capture your target audience in that second or two? The design has to hold their attention long enough to discover it's for them. We use big signage at the shows, and fill our racks with our products and things that compliment our line. Lights and bling at night too. Our website has been live for over 7 years and still does not result in sales that are significant enough to support ourselves. We just gotta get up every morning and push forward! GOOD LUCK OFFYAROCKER!!!


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## fraserm (Dec 23, 2009)

Hi I am a 18 year-old student looking to start up some sort of on-the-side t-shirt business away from my 2nd year of computer graphic design study. I was taken away by all the helpful information and knowledge of the industry on the forum. That being said, if you were in my position, what pitfalls should i try to avoid and basically where should I begin? Any and all information and guidance is muchly appreciated!


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## Blazed T (Nov 12, 2006)

You found this forum, which is a great start. But use it! Tons of info here to help you on your way. But know that a "side business" is still going to require a full time attitude and commitment. I know many who have tried and failed or gave up. Spend the time to put a plan together! Easier than you think to invest more than you planned!


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## SHIROINEKO (Mar 31, 2010)

Try to find your customers in Twitter and Facebook.

Or read other posts here can help.


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