# Fibers off the shirt are pulling up when printing



## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

I am having an issue with 100% cotton t's. When I am printing them, the fibers are pulling up after every print. When this is happening, the prints on the shirts are not coming out smooth (plastisol). I have my off contact about 1/8''.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

What mesh are you using? Might go a little higher on the off contact if your screen tension is not tight, manual press I assume? What kind of pallet adhesive are you using, are you using enough to hold the shirt in place? Describe your printing technique as in number of strokes, flash time, squeegee angle, pressure, speed, fill/flood pressure, stencil coating technique/coats per side, and what kind of emulsion. Is the mesh completely clear of ink particles before you move on to the next printing step?


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## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

This can be difficult to do on a manual press, but you need to cut the ink off the screen and not bury it into the fabric of the shirt. You will need an ink with a good sheer (not stringy, able to cut away from the screen easily) and a sharp squeegee. Off contact, set right and a good tight screen. It will take some practice but should fix the problem.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

The white is the hardest to deal with, due to how thick it is. It takes me 3 passes of each color to get it that bright.


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Do you have good tension and a sharp squeege?Whats the mesh count for your white? All of the pictures you posted show the white being the problem.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

The white is on a 158 screen. I couldn't do a 110 due to the detail of the design. I only did a 1 on 1 for the emulsion, so the stencil is thin. I am also using a new squeege.


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Are you using film or vellum for you media?If film, coat thicker and build up your stencil.Another quick tip is to heat up the shirt a little and then print the white quick when its warm,it helps the whites viscosity.A quick flood and print might help the laydown and not cause you to drive the ink into the fibers,sounds like your printing INTO and not on top of the t-shirt.Do you get that?
If your white is stiffer,place it by a heat source,NOT DIRECT.Like on top of a conveyor dryer or a sunny window or last resort a heat vent{dont leave it overnight}It will help your white flow a little better.
Also as your pulling the squeege towards you , make sure you see the mesh snapping off the shirt,otherwise,something is sticking.You should be able to put down a decent coat with 2 passes.Good luck.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

I use film for the media. My setup is poor. I have a fan on one side of the pallet and the flash unit on the other side. I have to use the flash unit as a final cure. So, the pallet is always hot. I do believe that one of the main issues is the thickness of stencil. I am having the problem that the screen isn't clearing if I do a quick pass, just to leave the ink on the shirt and not drive it in. The white I am using is ryonet white if that helps same for the pink too.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I would find a semi-heat resistant table of some sort to put your finished shirts on to cure under the flash unit, instead of your working pallets. That will keep your pallets from getting too hot and your pallets will be free to continue printing while your shirt is curing. That ryonet white is the same thing as the ICC 711 I do believe and it's a nice white to work with, I regularly print that through 230's with one stroke. One thing to always keep in mind when printing the underbase, every single ink particle needs to be cleared through the mesh and onto the shirt before you move on to your next step. If you have to press hard enough with the squeegee to put some ink into the shirt instead of all on top of the shirt, it is still better than leaving the screen uncleared. When you're perfecting your printing technique, you'll have a hard time finding that fine line between pushing the ink into the shirt fibers and shearing the ink on top of the shirt. So, until you get the technique down, it might be a necessary evil to have some of the ink into the shirt just to make sure you get all the ink through the screen, that is the most important thing and it will cut down on the hairyness of your print. Then, once you get a few thousand prints under you, you'll be able to clear the screen with one or two strokes without any ink going into the shirt.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

My guess would be it's your underbasing. A 158 mesh is high enough that you shouldn't get any roughness.

1. Make sure your platen is smooth. Some people put a large sheet of vinyl tape on the platen. This gives you the ability to change over the tape quickly if the surface starts getting rough. But a smooth surface is important for the smooth print.

2. I would use a medium durometer squeegee. You don't want too firm, it will be difficult to push the ink through the screen. Too soft will push too much ink.

3. Make sure your angle of squeegee is around 70%. Too little of an angle, you will have a hard time clearing the screen of the ink. Too much of an angle, and you will push too much ink through.

4. If your first pass of white before flashing is rough, your final print will be rough. If you print quickly and firmly, you should be able to print one pass, then print another pass of white immediately (before flashing) to get a smooth lay down. If there is any ink left in the image area of the screen, try to get it out of the screen by printing without getting extra ink on the squeegee. The point is, you want all the ink out of the mesh and a smooth print on the initial laydown BEFORE flashing.

5. When you flash, make sure it's dry to touch. Don't cure it, but if it's dry to touch, you shouldn't have to do 3 passes of ink to get a bright white. Of course, if the ink is not meant to be a bright white, then you need to switch. I'm sure Ryonet has more than one white ink to choose from.

6. What Alan said above.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

The squeegee I am using is a flat straight edge. I'm new to this, so I really don't know the difference between different squeegees. I have only had this problem since using the white and pink. Would thinning it out make a difference? Also, is there a difference in pulling or pushing the squeegee across the screen. When I tried to do a wet on wet with white, or any color the next pass always hazed/shadowed the outside of the design. When I pushed the ink through, it bleeds on the outside of the design on the screen underneath.


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## InkedApparel (Mar 18, 2009)

dont get discouraged.....EVERYONE has trouble with printing white ink...no matter what they say...they all have problems.......

the Ryonet white is a decent ink to use...my opinion on printing white is squeegee sharpness and angle...and a tight mesh is a must.....I use the push technique when printing white ..I think it lays down a smoother print.

whether you push or pull make sure you push or pull on both passes...dont push one time the pull the other...this will give a shadowed effect or blurry image.

when I print white I use a 230 mesh screen and a 1/1 coat method... p/f/p
I warm the pallet , flood the screen , push then flash 5 seconds the flood again then push again , 80 degree angle , slow stroke...seems to work for me.....

[MEDIA]







[/MEDIA]

practice makes perfect.........keep trying new things until you find what works for you.

Inked


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## scottyjr (Sep 12, 2009)

My solution to this problem is to use a 'dry' stroke after the print stroke. Just make another pass without a flood and without loading the squeegee with ink. - Scotty


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## R1 (Apr 30, 2008)

I had the same problem with Ryonet white (using a 4 color manual from Ryonet), I switched to Union Ink. To me Ryonet white was too thick and I had to reduce it with reducer to make it work. Also union maxopak inks worked a lot better, for me at least. Try a different brand of ink and see if there is a different outcome.

Also try what scottyjr stated by clearing the screen with a few passes. On dark garmets I tend to clear the screen with 2-4 strokes depending on how thick the ink is. So, flood the screen, clear the screen with 2-4 strokes, flash (just as JeridHill states in his Step 5), flood the screen, clear the screen with 2-4 strokes, repeat if necessary for desired coverage. 
I'm no pro but it works for me.


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## WNEW1027 (Jun 13, 2009)

Looks like your white ink has way too much tack. Try switching brands and add a little reducer to it.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

For what I am trying to do, I shouldn't use soft series inks correct?


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

Also, does anyone have a good place to get Union Ink?


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## 13Graphics (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm in the same boat as you. I've tried different meshes, different coating techniques, different squeegee techniques, and still can't get white on black with any kind of consistency. I've also tried a ton of different white inks. 


Union 1020
Union 1027
Union 1030
IC 711LF
IC 714LF
IC 714LF
QCM XOLB 158
Willflex Bright Tiger
Willflex Quick White
Willflex Sprint White
The only suggestion I haven't tried is new tight screens. I'm using new prestreched aluminum screens now. I haven't been able to find a tension meter at a decent price , and I'm not running out to buy newmans until I know what my static frames are at.

I'm pretty sure the problem is in technique more than anything. Technique is really hard to teach or learn without having someone show you in person though. At least in my experience outside of screenprinting.

There's some more information, and my pics HERE. 

One thing that has worked for me on smaller designs is to warm the shirt up for a couple seconds with a flsh dryer, then spray a little water on the shirt, and wipe it in the direction you pull/push the squeegee with your hand, then print. You will need to flash for a little longer though because it does take longer to gel up. This however is just a band-aid for a larger problem. If I had to fill an order today I might use the spray technique, but I would rather not.


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Google Union ink.find a dealer in your state or call them direct.It's very easy. They are from New Jersey and let them know you just want to test a quart of white.Have a great day!Rabbit.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

I was looking at my other shirts today and realized that all of them have the fibers coming out. I thought it was just the 100% cotton, but the 50/50 gildans did the same. Also, it was just not the white and pink. It was black and red. I found this post.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t27939.html

I never had an off contact tab set on my screen, and don't know if it would make that much of a difference. I have also tried using the squeegee in multiple ways as suggested and still no luck. It's harder to do it, when reading how it should be done.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M6tuL_zIfs[/media]

Check this out. I noticed that he didn't have to clear the screen. Is that an easier way of printing, or should you always clear the screen on every pass?


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

He's using a 110 mesh which is easier to clear then a 155 with white.It also looks like he's using a 70 durometer blade with a sharp edge.Dull blades make the easiest jobs much harder to clear the screen.


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## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

110 Dual Coated screens are standard for white...
Everyone has a their own technique.

I use 110 dual coated screens and the Ryonet White with good results.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

I had the same problem with white when I first started. What solved it for me is what alot of the guys here are saying. Ease off on the squeegee pressure especially on the first pass. I was driving the ink in to the shirt instead of it sitting on top. I also changed my stroke to a push instead of a pull which really helped since I can clear the screen with less effort. I give it a nice easy first stroke. Flash. Then give it a good second coat. I usually pull off a a good print in 2 coats.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

For the cracking ink. Maybe your prints are too thick and the ink isn't fully cured right through.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

13Graphics, I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of your screens aren't over 20 newtons. I've gotten aluminum statics from probably 5 different manufacturers and the tightest one I have is 21. A tight screen is very important, if not the most important factor when it comes to white on darks. I can also tell you that around 20 newtons seems to be the threshold for me when it comes to getting a good print and a bad one. Anything under and I run into more problems and over 20 the prints are obtained much easier. The new screens I have now that are in the upper 30's are capable of unbelievable white ink prints. Many designs don't even require me to flash and print a top white, ergo the infamous one hit white. 

You'll find that it really doesn't matter what kind of white ink you're using once you line up all the other things that go into it.


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## 13Graphics (Jul 20, 2009)

Alan,

I've been leaning toward that conclusion myself. I'm looking for a meter to check my current screens, then the next step will be to rescreen the frames if they're low.

Same with the white ink. Most of the white inks I have are very similar as far as getting a smooth print, but do have some differences. Some cure glossy, some matte, some are very soft, some have puff added, some lay down VERY thick.

I think in the end I'll choose a white ink based on what look and feel I want to get, not on coverage. Aside from the XOLB 158 they all cover close to the same.

The other thing I'm gonna do is order a bunch of different black shirts. I know the G2000s are very common, but I have printed super smooth whites on store bought tees.

Thanks Again.


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

You should be looking for ring spun cotton t's,Like Beefys.Ring spun doesn't have fibers coming off it.Look through a jewelers loop and you can see the difference between open end and ring spun cotton threads.Ring spun is always more expensive.So look for it when buying and try the same print on both.


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

Well, I talk to two guys at Ryonet. They told me too thicken the emulsion 2/2 and use an angle of 30 Degrees and place it on like peanut butter. The same thing all you guys said.


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## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

I hope that your problems are solved now...


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## rottonrabbit (Oct 1, 2007)

I hope it is too, I wont be able to try it for a few weeks due to work though.


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## warrent178 (Apr 27, 2009)

I ran into this problem when I first started printing as well. The way that I get good results is to do a fill stroke, push stroke, flood stroke, push stroke. I ran into problems like with ghosting and hazing but after adjusting the play on the press where the arms seat it completely went away. I also slowed my printing speed.


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## pezlo4750 (Nov 13, 2009)

InkedApparel said:


> dont get discouraged.....EVERYONE has trouble with printing white ink...no matter what they say...they all have problems.......
> 
> the Ryonet white is a decent ink to use...my opinion on printing white is squeegee sharpness and angle...and a tight mesh is a must.....I use the push technique when printing white ..I think it lays down a smoother print.
> 
> ...


Exactly! Everyone has problems with white ink. Just play with it and you'll figure it out. It just takes time. I've been printing for almost ten years and I'm not even close to having it ALL figured out.


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## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

pezlo4750 said:


> Exactly! Everyone has problems with white ink. Just play with it and you'll figure it out. It just takes time. I've been printing for almost ten years and I'm not even close to having it ALL figured out.


Well said Pezlo, It is an art afterall.


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## ErinAllen (Aug 11, 2009)

Just my opinion! Most of the issue is in the set up. You need to have a thicker stensil and tight tension in your screen. Don't print with a lot of pressure. You want to lay the ink on top if the garment, not drive it in. 

I do not recommend putting ink close to a heat source. Most plastisol inks will sheer down after stirring or mixing a lot. I recommend mixing the ink well before you start printing. 

Thanks, 

Erin


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## printing40years (Dec 27, 2008)

Union white is too sticky also. I switched to International Coatings 711 fast flash, low bleed white They have distributors in most major cities. Use a soft squeegee with a slow stroke and a tight screen. Flash and print it again. Try 125 mesh. It holds good detail


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## sprevolution (Oct 22, 2008)

I have seriously purchased so many shirts like this..


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