# Sublimation ink



## Amystery (Aug 27, 2008)

Can anyone point me in the right direction for sublimation ink for an epson c88+ that is fairly a good price?

Thanks


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

Where do you live ? I you live in the USA, you options are limited to .... ONE : sawgrass is the company that sells sublimation inks here.


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## Amystery (Aug 27, 2008)

I live in Canada but I can order for the us


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

most any of the ink vendors has sublimation ink. You have a choice...artainium or sublijet...both manufactured by sawgrass...and they hold the patent for desktop printerslll So you price is going to be around $75 per cart. I suspect you could find the ink in Canada..and might be cheaper when you consider your payment for shipping and customs...dunno...but I would check


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## Amystery (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks......... have another question. I noticed on ebay they ciss, you can get for 30+ Do you know if they are any good for the printers?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I have been at this for years...had several CIS..and I would NEVER EVER buy CIS from ebay..even at $30 when I buy from a good source of 3 times that..why??? because with ebay you get no assurance it will work with your ink and how good with your printer...and I never buy ink one place and CIS from another...because it there is trouble...each point fingers at the other.

save your self some headaches and get good quality from a reputable source with support when needed

Example...last year I bought a CIS and sawgrass artainium...10 months later the CIS stopped working...since there is a year warranty (try to find that on ebay) I called my vendor and a new unit shipped out that day...I returned the old one and I was and am a happy camper


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## Harison (Aug 21, 2008)

I bought Rotech dye sub inks on ebay. I can't say if it was the right thing to do bcz I have nothing to compare them too (I'm a newbie too) but they seem ok. Took a lot of hassle before I got a decent print from them, but again that could be bcz I'm a newbie and didn't know how to set them up correctly. It's taken me a couple of days to get them running through my CISS well. Prints are looking ok though. It cost me £130 for 4X125ml.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Rotech would probably be okay as it is a name brand...in fact since 2005, Rotech in Europe has been owned by Sawgrass... can anyone say monopoly?


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

It seems even on eBay there is not much options.. Rotech is an affiliated company of Sawgrass in Europe.


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

I buy my sublimation ink (in Canada) from www.tropicalgraphics.ca but you can also get it at
www.starlinepacific.com or www.jotopaper.com All these places also carry items for sublimation also.
I don't have a cis system either but use the refillable carts. I just buy the bottles of ink.
I find it works great.

Lar


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## Amystery (Aug 27, 2008)

Thats great Lar...... thanks for the links! Probably becoming a pain here but I'm new to all this and got a great deal on older stuff to get me started. One question I have is about the kodak printer I have......... it's the printer dock series 3 and was wondering if that would work for dye sublimation for my mugs? I see it says on the specs that its thermal dye transfer. If anyone knows this... give me a shout. would really appreciate it.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

One think to consider...the Sawgrass monopoly does not hold with large format (44 inch and up) printers. The ink for them is about half or less...BUT...I think you have to give the serial number of your printer...Not sure as I do not have a large format printer...my 1400 does quite well and my customers just pay...they have no idea of costs of material etc


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

What I did find amusing, was when I followed the tropical graphics link above to be greeted with the message.

*Sales: **Please call or send your messages by fax, let's fight E-mail abuse!* 

I had a call from a supplier a couple of weeks ago saying they don't do business by email. I told them I don't endure idiots on phones either and put the receiver down.

Getting back to the point of inks, I was given a large format machine, so now buy sublimation ink at less than half the cost of Sawgrass inks and as an added bonus I no longer have issues with inks clogging either.

With regards to giving a serial of a printer, I'm not quite sure how that would work, as many countries have the equivalent of the Data Protection Act, that makes it illegal for businesses to disclose information about its customers. When you consider that Epson claims you can only use Epson inks in your printers, I would find it difficult to comprehend Epson giving information on serial numbers, to a third party ink manufacturer??


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

Check w/ your vendor. The Sublijet and ArTainium inks are the two sublimation inks on the market. Check w/ your vendor and see if they are having any specials on ink. They are in a better position to help you decide which inks would be most cost effective.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Epson was successful late last year in winning a court case against third party providers of ink carts...but evidently Sawgrass cut a deal with Epson anyway they still sell...but the court decision was third party importers were going to be charged more for a few months..then had to stop...BUT evidently Epson does not bother against the large format users...not sure why...


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

charles95405 said:


> BUT evidently Epson does not bother against the large format users...not sure why...


The reason that Epson does not target the users of large format printers, is that they are often used by large businesses with enough financial leverage to challenge Epson in the courts. Which is probably the same reason why Sawgrass keep away with their so called 'patent'.

Some countries have something called a monopolies commission, which stamps out unfair practices in industry. I somehow don't think Epson would fare well with trying to dictate what customers can and can't do with their own machines in some countries. I think they have lost the focus that the people *own* these printers. I think that they (and Sawgrass) have forgotten a simple little word - choice!


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## inksareus (Oct 4, 2008)

Hi I spoke to sawgrass and the thing is that legally you cannot sell inks under the name sublimation for inkjet printers because that is where the infingement comes in. You cannot mention the inkjet process either. You can sell inks for printing on polyester coated fabrics or textiles perfectly legal for e.g "Polymagic Inks" the chemically engineered inks to print on polycoated surfaces. NO INFRINGEMENT!! Also keep in mind that sawgrass develop sublimation inks for epson inkjet printers only, so anyone that engineers an ink that can sucessfully print through a canon or hp printer is a winner because if you use sublijet or artanium it will damage and permantly clog the print heads. Also if your inks are formulated different you are not infringing and TOG sold out to sawgrass because they had them beaten. I know a company that is working with the chinese to develop an ink called polymagic inks to compete with sublimation inks. Rumors are taht they will range from $55-$65 per color 125ml bottles. last but not least sawgrass did not invent sublimation inks so they cannot stop anyone from selling inks. Once you mention the inkjet process that is where they burn you! The reason Mr. hale owns a private jet is because he has team up with wealthy retailers who marks up the inks 45-50%!


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

inksareus said:


> Last but not least sawgrass did not invent sublimation inks so they cannot stop anyone from selling inks. Once you mention the inkjet process that is where they burn you! The reason Mr. hale owns a private jet is because he has team up with wealthy retailers who marks up the inks 45-50%!


Sawgrass regularly have listings pulled on EBay, where people are selling non Sawgrass sublimation inks for use in smaller inkjet printers. That has applied to private sellers advertising their own used printers too. Quite what their legal precedent is for being allowed to do that, I'm not quite sure.

I don't know who Mr Hale is, but if he is the president of Sawgrass, that might explain a lot of things about ink prices.


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## joemsewi (Aug 20, 2008)

I wanted to look into re-fillable carts for an Epson C88 and an Epson 1400 and noticed 2 things: 1. Epson, it seems, has shut the door on vendors selling empty Epson carts, but they do support Sawgrass selling the filled Epson carts. 2. Even if you have refillable carts you might have a hard time finding bottles of Artainium ink for small printers. The Artainium strategy is, apparently, to only sell bag ink for their Easy Flow system and not offer bottles to the small printer market.

I may be wrong , but just recently I couldn't find a refillable system for my Epson 1400 and ended up with an easy flow system using bags. If anybody knows how to guess how much ink is left in one of those bags please let me.

To me it looks like the only option in the US for dye-sublimation with a small printer is either Artainium in carts or in bags using the Easy Flow system. If I am wrong please let know.

Joe


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## inksareus (Oct 4, 2008)

That is rdidculous Mr. Hale has never develop an ink to print sucessfully in a canon, lexmark or hp printer. if you used sublijet, artanium in one of these printers it will damage the print head. sawgras inks are compatible with epson printers only and that is the only power drivers they support


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## inksareus (Oct 4, 2008)

joe stop givin sawgrass your money, unless sawgrass invents and patents a printer you have the legal right to use whatever inks you want. it is cheaper to buy from big format companies because their ink is much cheaper. for empty cartridges visit www.shopdyesub.com


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## Amystery (Aug 27, 2008)

Wow, THanks for posting that web address, they have some great pricing there. Just emailed them about shipping to Canada.

Thanks again


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## joemsewi (Aug 20, 2008)

I went to the dyesub.com site and got the message "We are no longer selling sublimation ink" on their home page. In the US I only have one place to go for dye-sublimation ink for a small printer and that is Sawgrass. No one, as far as I know, has filled the void left by TOG.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

you are exactly right...no one is legally selling any dye sub ink in the US that does not come from Sawgrass.

I knew someone who brought in some Chinese ink and he was never able to get a decent print


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## grannmomm44 (Apr 16, 2009)

Do you have a problem with lines from the paper on your sublimated prints on shirts?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

If you are getting lines (banding) on your print, it normally means you have an ink delivery problem..either clogged head, damaged head or clogged line if using CIS. Try printing a several boxes...each with a different color and see if the banding is in each color or just one..might help identify the problem..by the way Sawgrass tech support is very helpful if you call them


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## wizzard1326 (Aug 8, 2010)

Have you ever had a problem with the black ink leaving a very light overspray on the paper, so light that you can't really see it until it prints. I'm not sure what is causing it....


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

You can use SublJet or ArTainium inks. If you use Sublijet you have to use the Power Driver. When using ArTainium inks make sure you have the ICC profile.






Amystery said:


> Can anyone point me in the right direction for sublimation ink for an epson c88+ that is fairly a good price?
> 
> Thanks


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

Are you using a Easy Flow system?



wizzard1326 said:


> Have you ever had a problem with the black ink leaving a very light overspray on the paper, so light that you can't really see it until it prints. I'm not sure what is causing it....


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## gunatausa (Mar 21, 2011)

*Re: Sublimation ink- Sawgrass Insanity and customer idiots*

Read this very carefuylly before buy anything:
Sawgrass ink company people are insane 
And all the people buying their products are idiots , If you are one of them don’t get offended.
sawgrass sells a bag of 110 Milliliters for 137 $ trough their distributors 
their product is competing with the price of gold
All they say is a huge lie
They claim that the print on a t-shirt will cost you 1,2 - 2 $
this was a statement of distributor of their inks because I was very interested of how much will cost me the 13 x 19 print on a t-shirt
You would immediately assume: “What a Good Business WOW”, But wait a minute .
(Note that Sawgrass- an US company does not have any problems with Epson High jacking their Chipped Printers but other companies may have , the other companies are called “Fake” )

I bought the inks and the Bulk system and I did tests and out of 110 ml set of 6 inks that cost 822$ i produced exactly72 polyester t-shirts , The print was 13 x19 printed by Epson 1400 normal settings with Sawgrass inks and their driver No Vivid colors, No over saturation, Nothing ,
The cost is as follows: 822$ in inks divided by 72 prints =11.42 $ 
Each print cost me exactly 11,42 $ only in Sawgrass ink ,
When I added the blank polyester t-shirt for 4$ and the transfer paper for 1,3 $ the production cost of one t-**** comes to 16$ and 72 cents
I assume that as a small business I can produce around 20 shirts a day and will put myself to work for free (since im the owner of the business) so there is no labor cost but yet the ground price is 16$
Thanks to the ink company sawgrass 
Now lets make another calculation :the cost of the ink is about 70 % of the cost of the entire product 
That’s Ridiculous to claim that the prints will be 1, 2- 2 $ when they really are over 10 bucks.

That’s why sawgras needs owners like me. That’s why they advertise: Do your own business by Buying or Water based inks for70 % of the product. 
Buy our water and pigments and work for us for free .What a huge profit you can make if you sell a t- shirt for 25 $ 
Thank you sawgrass But who really gets the money ??


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## LaserHead (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't care what the ink costs per gallon. My current set of ink, which ran me $240 for the set, has produced over $5,000 in billable work and they still have ink in them. I don't get it. I'll take those numbers, whether it's $1 per gallon or $10,000 per gallon. I suspect when they are finally empty, they will have produced about $7,000-8,500 worth of product, all for $260.


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## gunatausa (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi Steve 
Im really surprised that You dont care about the cost of your supplies.
My post was very descriptive and if you want to hear the numbers again they are around 11$ per t-shirt print 13 x 19 full photo qulity print. 
if you are working for sawgras i can understand you that you dont care , but not caring what your cost is is simply dumb idea.
and how much you are selling your products for ?
i also did not understand from your post what you have for 240 $ what kind of inks what brand what quantity . it just looks to me that you are one of the fake sawgrass distributors that keeps repeat the same nonsense such as: "out of 240 $ you will make 7000 $" .
i have a big problem with that . can you be a little more specific ??
if you think that 13 x 19 print with ink cost of 11 $ is good can you tell me for how much i have to sell these t- shirts to make 7000$. 
it looks to me that you dont care but you reply is not actually reply but just sugest to the other users to be careless like u and to keep using the expensive inks , just because there are no alternatives. 
its good that you reply because i assumed that nobody would be interested in my post because is kind of negative talking about reducing insane ink price.
Im using this to say that im still looking for alternative inks and will not stop till find a good enough inks. The inks from fujiinks.com are good except the black color . they actually gave me better color results than sawgrass ,once again with the exeption of the black which sucks .
The problem with these inks is the density that keeps clogging the print heads . i had to use "printer Jokey" software to clean separate colors. 
i did a lot of testing before saing these words
My problem is the price because i have market for over 100 t-shirts a day .
if i had 3 -20 tshirts maybe i would not care but in my case the price is important.
once again I want to say that if there someone that claim that he can make 7000 out of 240$ sawgrass inks i challenge him to a real test the way it supposed to be: like i did : 
1 get the inks for x amount of $ 
2 install them and start printing 13x 19 sheets
3 when you completely finish the inks count how many prints u have 
4 use simple math to divide the Cost of the ink to the number of 13 x19 prints and get the price per print .
all the rest is rubbish 
Im talking math here not some selling tactics 
if some one claim that sawgrass inks cost less than 5$ per 13x19 print he want to sell you these inks . even 5 $ is insane price but the sawgrass is actually even more .


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

I guess it all depends on what you are selling. If I am selling mugs I could care less what ink cost as it would be a small percentage of cost. If you are cranking out anything close to 100 shirts a day or even half that number and still using Sawgrass for ink you are tipsy. High quality ink such as J-Teck goes for around $125-$150 per liter. The strangest thing I do not get is after getting screwed by Sawgrass in the desktop market there are people who still buy their ink when they go to large format. Go figure.


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## gunatausa (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi Mark Thanks so much for the info 
I will try these ink s ASAP
you are very right about people that keep doing the same mistakes . the reason is because there is very little information in internet about inks that print on garments.
if you do search most of the time you will find sawgrass as THE ONLY company 
i will research these inks and do test and will post the results here in this forum for other people to see as well
Thanks again for the info


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

gunatausa said:


> Hi Mark Thanks so much for the info
> I will try these ink s ASAP
> you are very right about people that keep doing the same mistakes . the reason is because there is very little information in internet about inks that print on garments.
> if you do search most of the time you will find sawgrass as THE ONLY company
> ...


 
J-Teck is considerred one of the highest quality inks with much less abrasive inks than Sawgrass and the colors are awesome. We get ours from Digitally Driven (daniel@digitally-driven.com). With J-Teck you want to make sure you get lined up with a good distributor as J-Teck direct does not have all the resources as a Sawgrass. We ended up going with Daniel as he not only knows inks but is very up to date on printers as well. Good luck


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

gunatausa said:


> Hi Mark Thanks so much for the info
> I will try these ink s ASAP
> you are very right about people that keep doing the same mistakes . the reason is because there is very little information in internet about inks that print on garments.
> if you do search most of the time you will find sawgrass as THE ONLY company
> ...


There are 3rd party non-Sawgrass inks on Ebay, Amazon, and some posting here are using Cobra inks.

These are a fraction of the cost of SG inks.

I use Artanium inks (yes SG) but paying *regular* prices on the inks my costs are $3 - $3.50 a page for a 13 x 19 on a WF1100. For tabloid size transfers that are solid shape and no open design area 3rd party pigment is much cheaper and so are the tshirts.

One mistake you are doing is _USING 6 COLOR SUBLIMATION_, *waste of money*. When you do head cleans and stuff it costs you more money. And when you have banding and head clog issues you have more colors to deal with.

Over the last year I have been buying Artanium inks for about half the cost of suggested price on Ebay.

Artanium black is not great, but do-able on most stuff.

As others have suggested you should be >42 inch format with your ink volume and use the same high quality inks high volume producers use, most have dual CMYK rips so you can do 4 colors on an 8 color printer. That is if you are not happy with results from cheap non-Sawgrass sublimation inks selling for small desktop printers.

I don't take offense at being coined "an idiot" by using Sawgrass inks, however, if I was in the restaraunt business I would not buy my raw food materials from the Seven Eleven. Before you claim others are foolish suggest to look in the mirror.

Michael


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