# How to make $$ using Transfer Express (or other plastisol suppliers)....



## treadhead

I was hoping I could get some ideas from folks who use Transfer Express for a good part of their business.

I've used plastisol transfers in the past (Ace, First-Edition, Dowling) and like them but since I've learned to do screenprinting in-house, find that it is very difficult for me to justify using them now except in various circumstances such as more then 4 colors (I'm currently limited to 4 colors), 4-color process, or perhaps if I'm backed up on my manual press. Also, given my current setup (1 station / 4 color manual press w/ flash cure) I believe that using plastisol transfers would be faster and increase my productivity so that is an advantage but not a big enough one (I don't think at least...) to offset the huge price difference.

My main question is, given how expensive Transfer Express is, how do those of you who use them make any money doing so? How do you compete against those who do screenprinting in-house? 

I love their dealer program and hear that they have a great product and support but can't seem to figure out how I would make any money using them.


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## T-BOT

John, 

Printing directly on shirts is less expensive.

The idea of Plastisol Transfers is to serve other puposes, like quick economical re-fill orders on your catalog items, on demand printing small orders etc.

if you get an order for 100 t-shirts and you screen print yourself, why would you want to order plastisol transfers? ....and add the printing work of the shirts to it too?


:


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## treadhead

T-BOT said:


> The idea of Plastisol Transfers is to serve other puposes, like quick economical re-fill orders on your catalog items, on demand printing small orders etc.
> :


Hi Lucy...thanks for jumping in...

That's just my point...I wouldn't order plastisol for 100 shirts since I can print them myself much cheaper but probably not faster. But there are many folks who do just that and seem to do just fine.

I don't know if I agree with the on demand printing for small orders as they get REALLY expensive for smaller order quantities however I do agree with the simplicity of doing so.

But, what I can't understand I guess is how some people, who don't do in-house screenprinting, can compete with those who do by using sources such as Transfer Express. I don't mean to pick on them as I like their program & product. I just can't get my mind around how one survives given their pricing. This discussion can also be applied to somebody such as Ace as well.

I feel like I'm missing something. I know there are folks here on the forum that work perhaps from their home and don't have screenprint equipment but still somehow manage to do quite well using plastisol transfers competing against screenprinters in their area. Lou is a perfect example (forgive me Lou for using you as an example) of this.

I currently have a shop / store but have often considered closing those down and working from home and spending more time trying to market the business and less time behind the press. Plastisol seems to be a much cleaner and simpler method if one were to do that but the cost seems prohibitive.

It is much easier to just send the artwork and order the transfers and press the shirts when they arrive. Of course you expect to pay for this convenience and you also avoid the "mess" and time involved with setting up and running a screenprint job but you still have to compete in the marketplace.

What's the secret??


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## ino

This would be just my opinion, however if I had a shop, and selling retail,
plastisol transfers would be the only option for me for the following reasons.

1. Not easy to deal with customers while I'm busy printing a run.
2. lower inventory with a much bigger variety of designs and shirts.
3. better utilization of the space saved for more products to offer for sale.
4. less employees needed, meaning less wages to payout.
5. more time to sweet talk customers to part with their money.
6. no messy cleanups.


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## treadhead

ino said:


> This would be just my opinion, however if I had a shop, and selling retail,
> plastisol transfers would be the only option for me for the following reasons.
> 
> 1. Not easy to deal with customers while I'm busy printing a run.
> 2. lower inventory with a much bigger variety of designs and shirts.
> 3. better utilization of the space saved for more products to offer for sale.
> 4. less employees needed, meaning less wages to payout.
> 5. more time to sweet talk customers to part with their money.
> 6. no messy cleanups.


Hey Ino...

Great feedback...all very good points and ones I totally believe. #1 really hits home!! LOL  

Intuitively, there are many advantages BUT how does that transfer into $$$?

Of course, lower inventory, lower wages, less space needed, less mess, more time with customers and / or marketing all should transfer into $$$$. But is it enough?

For example, if I use pricing for Ace Transfer (cheaper than Transfer Express) for a typical job for us (2 locations, 3 color on 50 colored shirts) I would have to pay $5.20 (plus shipping) per shirt for a ganged design from Ace. Lets just call it $6.00 with shipping. Add to that $2.50 for the shirt and my material cost is already $8.50 per shirt vs. maybe $3.50 if I were to screenprint? I would quote that job at $6.75 per shirt screenprinting it which would be comparable to others in my market. 

So, I have to be able to save $5.00 per shirt in lower inventory costs, lower payroll, less space and more sales in order to stay competitive? 

How does one do that??

Again, this doesn't even consider the higher cost of Transfer Express AND I know there are people out there that are doing it.

How do thay do it???


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## wormil

The short answer is that if you are buying expensive transfers you have to charge more money and work off the lower volume, higher margin theory. Unfortunately that model tends to suffer first and the most during economic downturns. 

Nothing wrong with supplementing your screenprinting with transfers, just use a less expensive company. Howard has a similar pricing structure as Ace except with better quality (based on their samples) and lower pricing. First Edition and Dowling are cheap but slow. F&M is inexpensive and fairly quick. Universal is a good source for digital transfers.


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## splathead

treadhead said:


> For example, if I use pricing for Ace Transfer (cheaper than Transfer Express) for a typical job for us (2 locations, 3 color on 50 colored shirts) I would have to pay $5.20 (plus shipping) per shirt for a ganged design from Ace. Lets just call it $6.00 with shipping. Add to that $2.50 for the shirt and my material cost is already $8.50 per shirt vs. maybe $3.50 if I were to screenprint? I would quote that job at $6.75 per shirt screenprinting it which would be comparable to others in my market.


Your $3.50 per shirt cost seems low to me. If $2.50 of that is the shirt, then you are only spending $1 more for 6 screens, ink, supplies and overhead?

Transfers have their place as does direct screening. For me, I use direct for volume jobs. I use transfers for designs that we sell where we can provide the customer basically any choice of product (tee, hoodie, long sleeve, etc.), any color, and any size-always in stock.  That's the beauty of transfers.


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## wormil

treadhead said:


> For example, if I use pricing for Ace Transfer (cheaper than Transfer Express) for a typical job for us (2 locations, 3 color on 50 colored shirts) I would have to pay $5.20 (plus shipping) per shirt for a ganged design from Ace. Lets just call it $6.00 with shipping. Add to that $2.50 for the shirt and my material cost is already $8.50 per shirt vs. maybe $3.50 if I were to screenprint? I would quote that job at $6.75 per shirt screenprinting it which would be comparable to others in my market.
> 
> So, I have to be able to save $5.00 per shirt in lower inventory costs, lower payroll, less space and more sales in order to stay competitive?


They may not be selling to the same customers as you. 

In your example above, using a $2.50 shirt, I would quote it slightly higher; be competitive with others in my market and make money. To sell for $6.75 you need to get the shirt down to $2.00 shipped. You can't use TE or Ace and compete at that price level, you have to go with one of the other three I previously named.


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## brentonchad

The pricing on that shirt in my area is much more expensive. I only use plastisol and I am able to offer shirts much cheaper than the screenprinters. The locals around here would charge a screen setup at least 15-20 per screen - so that's an additional 2 bucks per shirt of their advertised price. With First Edition - 3.25 per sheet (ganged) + 2 dollar shirt = 5.25 is my cost. I sell that shirt at around 9-10 dollars. That allows me to clear 150 bucks and it took me about 1.5 hours to do the whole thing. I can drop to $8 bucks a shirt and I am cheaper than everyone and still make $100 for an 1.5 hours of work. 
I do this part time from a 10X10 room (laptop and heatpress) but if you can build up enough business that your busy 8 hours a day at that rate then your doing pretty good. Now some designs I can fit on one sheet so I get to cut the cost of the transfer in half. I would bet it would take you at least an hour to set up your screens - so you have to consider your time as money. (there's a whole other thread on this)

My guess is your market is pretty saturated and the pricing there is better than my area if you are doing (50) 3 color shirts at 6.75 with no screen charge. If you do have a screen charge/setup charge then we are about even at 8-9 bucks.


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## bulldog

I use Transfer Express all the time and love them. I deal with mostly local schools and sports teams. they love to look at TE book and pick out a design, pick a screen print color, T-shirt color and by the end of the week have their shirts. Yes, you can make money using TE. If you don't have the equipment or the know how- this is the next best thing to be able to offer your customers screen printing. Because they don't know the diffrence between a screen print and a transfer.( most). But from what I have seen most don't care(it looks good). 90% of the time my orders are for 1 color and for 100 ($1.27) plus shirt $2.00=$3.27 +SH. I get anywhere from $5.75-$8.00 a shirt. I can spend more time getting orders and expanding my embroidery but still offer screenprint to customers. And for small orders(1-20) I offer them vinyl to keep the cost down. Since I started using them March of this year, I have not had to use my printers for making t-shirt transfers, nor do I want to anymore. I have read TE is evpensive but I look at my experience with them and read about everyone's stories about long shipping,orders lost ect...
I'll stick with them 1 day away and no problems yet.


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## Seamonster

I'll chain my own designs on a plastisol sheet if I get an order that's too big for my vinyl cutter but not enough to go through the trouble of making a screen for screen printing. I just consider that a cheap way to make extra transfers for myself on someone else's dime.


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## Binary01

i'm going to do transfers once i launch my 'official' line

i can't afford the high costs of minumums of screen printing and then trying to gauge what sizes/colors to print on. 

1 thing i might do though is get my shirts wholesale...print the inside logo/tag and the logo on the outside back....then just use a transfer when i get an order. this way all my shirts are 'branded' already and all i need to do is toss the graphic on the front

b


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## treadhead

Seamonster said:


> I'll chain my own designs on a plastisol sheet if I get an order that's too big for my vinyl cutter but not enough to go through the trouble of making a screen for screen printing. I just consider that a cheap way to make extra transfers for myself on someone else's dime.


Agreed...

That's the smart way to approach it.

In my situation, 90% of our designs involve a back design..typically a 10"x10" design with a front pocket. This configuration typically takes up the entire sheet leaving little opportunity to take advantage of ganging other designs.

I like the concept of plastisol transfers and used them quite a bit before getting our screenprint press. There are certainly many advantages I see in using now...I just have a hard time justifying the additional cost vs. doing them myself.


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## treadhead

237am said:


> i'm going to do transfers once i launch my 'official' line
> 
> i can't afford the high costs of minumums of screen printing and then trying to gauge what sizes/colors to print on.
> 
> 1 thing i might do though is get my shirts wholesale...print the inside logo/tag and the logo on the outside back....then just use a transfer when i get an order. this way all my shirts are 'branded' already and all i need to do is toss the graphic on the front
> 
> b


Yes...excellent way to utilize transfers.


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## Binary01

i'm trying to figure out a system that will create a good line but still be flexable when needed.

when i ran my first set of shirts in 2007, i ran out of certain sizes real quick but couldnt press up more so i had random sizes laying around that i ended up giving out.

i think the transfer idea is good especially if you can gang up your designs and do it that way.... i managed to have about 9 designs on 2 gang sheets and that will cost me about 8-900 for 100 sheets each...so 100 sets of 9 designs.... not bad..thats about $1 per design....and no mess

b


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## treadhead

237am said:


> i'm trying to figure out a system that will create a good line but still be flexable when needed.
> 
> when i ran my first set of shirts in 2007, i ran out of certain sizes real quick but couldnt press up more so i had random sizes laying around that i ended up giving out.
> 
> i think the transfer idea is good especially if you can gang up your designs and do it that way.... i managed to have about 9 designs on 2 gang sheets and that will cost me about 8-900 for 100 sheets each...so 100 sets of 9 designs.... not bad..thats about $1 per design....and no mess
> 
> b


b...

I think you are exactly on target with your approach of using the plastisol transfers...


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## Binary01

i'm trying man..... 

there's alot of options out there and for myself, it comes down to the whole time/money/space/options issue.

i figure if a design doen't sell then i just lose out on the transfer cost and not the overall cost of shirt/print.

we'll see.... have to order a heat press and get testing on some scrap shirts first before i really get going...... i have to also take into account the larger sizes also like 2xl-4xl so i might do a specific 2/set transfer for that..... basically press one graphic then move the shirt then press the other. this might help to fill up the shirt. i was also thinking about belt printing but i think doing th multiple transfers for the larger shirts will be a good way to test the market for now.

stay safe
b


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## treadhead

I just updated my spreadsheet with the latest pricing from Transfer Express, VersaTranz and Ace Transfer (Ace still much cheaper than the others) so I could compare side-by-side to my screenprinting pricing / costs and just have a hard time justifiying anything less than 48 shirts with anything more than 2 colors.

The lower quantities at 3 or more colors are just very expensive. 

I really like the idea of using the plastisol as I'm hoping to be tying my slow single station / 4 head manual press up with our new line of shirts. I'm wanting to be able to shift a large portion of our custom work (where it makes sense) to plastisol transfers but when you are looking at $2 & $3 per shirt price difference at the lower quantities / multiple colors it is hard to get my mind around.

Maybe there are some other suppliers I need to be looking at who are just as good but cheaper?? I just like (love Transfer Express) the programs with the premade layouts with these guys. I could advertise 1 week or less turnaround if you select from one of there layouts which would justify a bit more $$ vs. a standard 2 week turnaround but that only goes so far....


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## wormil

Almost all transfer makers are less expensive than Transfer Express but their dealer kits aren't as fancy. Quite a few of them have templates. Ace is inexpensive if you don't gang images, if you do gang their price skyrockets.


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## Binary01

i would think that gangin' designs would be best as in pricing... less screens to be made i guess...not sure

b


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## splathead

237am said:


> i would think that gangin' designs would be best as in pricing... less screens to be made i guess...not sure
> 
> b


Some transfer printers surcharge for ganging. If you find those that don't, then you are right, you would save a ton of money by ganging as many images as you could.


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## treadhead

wormil said:


> Almost all transfer makers are less expensive than Transfer Express but their dealer kits aren't as fancy. Quite a few of them have templates. Ace is inexpensive if you don't gang images, if you do gang their price skyrockets.


Yeah..that is exactly what I'm finding out with Ace. Most of what we produce has a front pocket design and a full back which needs to be ganged.


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## treadhead

237am said:


> i would think that gangin' designs would be best as in pricing... less screens to be made i guess...not sure
> 
> b


Yeah..one would think. If the artwork is supplied ganged there is no additional cost to the supplier to run the design. It is just another way for them to dig into your pocket and I guess to keep people like me from using them.


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## Binary01

looks like dowling offers free screens for spot color orders and i havent seen any other charges for the larger spot gang sheets.... i'm looking 4 color at 5.60 100-299sheets at 23.5x36 image area


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## treadhead

237am said:


> looks like dowling offers free screens for spot color orders and i havent seen any other charges for the larger spot gang sheets.... i'm looking 4 color at 5.60 100-299sheets at 23.5x36 image area


Hey b...

I see where it says screens included but I'm pretty sure they still charge film charges and possibly some others as well. I think I remember a color correction charge as well on my last order.

Just a heads up....


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## Binary01

hmmm.... i'll look into that.

maybe i'll drop them an email to find out all the costs. last thing i would need is to be hit with some fees that werent listed or something.

i have the 2007 price list so maybe they added some things to the newer list.

b


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## wormil

treadhead said:


> Hey b...
> 
> I see where it says screens included but I'm pretty sure they still charge film charges and possibly some others as well. I think I remember a color correction charge as well on my last order.
> 
> Just a heads up....


Where do you see free screens? My price list says $20 per color on the initial order, $10 on reorders.


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## splathead

wormil said:


> Where do you see free screens? My price list says $20 per color on the initial order, $10 on reorders.


Their screens are free for the 25X38 size screens. The $20 charge is for smaller screens.


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## treadhead

wormil said:


> Where do you see free screens? My price list says $20 per color on the initial order, $10 on reorders.


Hey Rick...

The sheet I have has Custom Transfer pricing on one side (starting at 25 sheets) and the other side has Sheet Run pricing for larger runs of 100 sheets and up with larger sheet sizes. The Sheet Run side says that it includes screens.

But your're right on the Custom Transfer pricing.

But that's where they get you. Their pricing looks good but if you have a 4 color job and only need like 40 shirts, then you have just added $2 per sheet / shirt with screen charges (@ $20 per color screen charge). This puts them right back into the same pricing as TE and others. Yeah, there is less impact at higher volumes and no charges on re-orders but honestly...how many jobs that are run are several hundred at a time and how many of them get reorders? Most of my jobs range between 50 and 100 shirts but most are multiple colors and two sided.

I just don't understand how this can be a viable alternative to screenprinting except if you don't already have the equipment. But then, how do you compete with those who have the equipment? What's the advantage?? Price? Delivery? Quality? Again, I love and understand the idea and I can probably run more per day than I could screenprint myself but unfortunately capacity isn't yet a problem for me.

On the other hand....it seems like people ARE doing it every day or else these guys wouldn't even be in business SO I just feel like I am missing something....


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## splathead

treadhead said:


> I just don't understand how this can be a viable alternative to screenprinting except if you don't already have the equipment. But then, how do you compete with those who have the equipment? What's the advantage?? Price? Delivery? Quality? Again, I love and understand the idea and I can probably run more per day than I could screenprint myself but unfortunately capacity isn't yet a problem for me.
> 
> On the other hand....it seems like people ARE doing it every day or else these guys wouldn't even be in business SO I just feel like I am missing something....


Inventory control, my man, inventory control. Imagine being able to offer any shirt color, any size, any style, male or female, and not have to actually stock them all multiplied by the number of your designs. It reduces the need for a 5,000 sq ft. warehouse down to a couple of shelves.


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## treadhead

splathead said:


> Inventory control, my man, inventory control. Imagine being able to offer any shirt color, any size, any style, male or female, and not have to actually stock them all multiplied by the number of your designs. It reduces the need for a 5,000 sq ft. warehouse down to a couple of shelves.


Hey Joe....I totally agree with the inventory control beauty of transfers. Especially if you have a line of shirts and / or a fulfullment service type of operation. 

But, if you are filling custom orders for various groups / organizations and such then that is where I'm not "getting it".

Now...we do have a new line of shirts we've launched but not sure if the plastisol transfer will work. The concept would as mentioned above (which would be GREAT!!! LOL) but the competitions designs have all been direct screenprinting with bright and colorful designs on colorful shirts (lime greens, bright pinks, sapphire blues, etc.) so there is an "expected" feel & look that the customer is looking for in these type of shirts that I'm not sure plastisol can meet.


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## splathead

Yes, definitely talking about ecommerce stores. Your Southern Sweeties store would be a prime candidate. Imagine being able to offer any shirt color AND not having to stock what you are stocking now.


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## Binary01

wormil said:


> Where do you see free screens? My price list says $20 per color on the initial order, $10 on reorders.


2008 sheet price

SPOT COLOR: sheet size 25" x 38"; image area 23.5" x 36"; free screens on all sheet run orders


unless i'm looking at the wrong thing and have my eyes crossed or soemthing


like splathead mentioned about inventory... i think if i was to get a large order to run in a store then i would screenprint the order since i wont have to stock it. plus they would give me the sizes/colors that they want.

now if you have an internet store and sell maybe a few shirts a week, then i would see the transfer being the way to go.

b


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## treadhead

Joe , b....

Yep...that would be awesome if I could do that....and maybe it is something I can look into to see if the look / feel would be acceptable for these particular line of shirts.

Perhaps I am trying to do something these were not intended to do given that I have to gang most of the time but can't gang more than one shirt (front & back design) per sheet. This forces me into a ganged sheet (more expensive) but can't take advantage of ganging multiple designs to get the cost down. I'm hoping that the Southern Sweeties line will take off, tying up most of my available capacity on my screen press. So, I was looking for a way to accomodate custom design jobs and thought plastisol would work for that. Maybe what I'll need to do is upgrade my press to a 4 station to speed things up or maybe even get another press when the time is right. Was hoping to avoid spending money for a while...LOL


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## Binary01

i understand the larger print ideas. i'm in that same boat but only doing fronts images for now.

i figured since i'm trying to get the line out there, i would have a good range of graphic sizes available. this would help to give a 'style' range for those that like the smaller prints over the larger prints. plus having a graphic to fit both a girl t and a guy t without looking stupid. so, i sized certain images that would fit the over sized for both shirts so i just have to order 1 size of each graphic (if that makes sense)

i would like to do 1-3 designs with a belt print but might wait till next year for that.

b


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## HT67

Check out First Edition Screenprinting.

I just got an order from them, my first custom transfers order. They are Hot-split, double pull white ink. Soooft hand, looks GREAT on black hoodies and they are very convenient. NOOOO extra gang fees, for a 12x12 sheet. I needed a front/back/sleeve image. I ganged these all on, plus had room for an additional (2) front images, and 4 of my own logos. Now I have 800 plastisol transfers to throw on sleeves/back of the neck on tshirts for advertisign whenever I give out shirts/sponsor teams . 

My total cost on these was ~1.00 per SHEET at 200 quantity. Hoodies cost ~8.50 for normal size, plus ~1.00 for images, plus ~5minutes time= 8 dollars profit on a wholesale hoodie. Transfers don't make much sense, to me, on a SMALL scale, but LARGE scale, they are sweet. I also made the same customer a shortsleeve with the same images and hte sleeve image on the right side horizontally at the bottom.

The hoodies may not sell well for them, and they may want to make some long sleeve, short sleeve, polos, or even do a different combination of these (just one or the other image) and these transfers will work great.

Try out first-edition. They were VERY awesome to work with, and are pretty inexpensive. I needed VERY opaque and wanted a hot-split, so it cost me a little bit more. They don't have the QUICK turn around time like transfer express, but you also have cheaper base price.


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## bwill

The only problem I had with First Edition was last week I called them to order stock athletic numbers. I was told that they needed to e-mail me a credit card form,I needed to fill it out, fax it back, and then e-mail the art department with a request for the numbers and they would fill it. That was way too much of a pain for something as simple as stock 8" numbers, I am used to calling, giving a credit card number and it being shipped that day. I was only using them because of a recommendation.


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## HT67

bwill said:


> The only problem I had with First Edition was last week I called them to order stock athletic numbers. I was told that they needed to e-mail me a credit card form,I needed to fill it out, fax it back, and then e-mail the art department with a request for the numbers and they would fill it. That was way too much of a pain for something as simple as stock 8" numbers, I am used to calling, giving a credit card number and it being shipped that day. I was only using them because of a recommendation.


I think they just have specialization in terms of who receives what, does what job, etc. More efficient, but more of a pain for you. I experienced the same, but it was for a BIG order, but I could see how a small order it would be a pain. Once you were setup it would be easy!


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## bwill

Yea, it would probably be easy once I got set up with them, but still, if I need something stock why do I need to go through the art department via e-mail, it just bogs them down, you would think the person answering the phone could take the order...


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## bwill

Course maybe it's just my luck. I placed an order with F&M for stock numbers for a job due early next week. Well...F&M sent me the wrong order, they placed my shipping label on someones order, so I received some great kelly green numbers in a different font. I hope the other company enjoyed the white/black numbers they must have gotten. Maybe this is more trouble than it's worth, I am a screenprinter and am just trying to streamline my timelines on smaller team orders, maybe I will just stick with screening them.


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## HT67

bwill said:


> Course maybe it's just my luck. I placed an order with F&M for stock numbers for a job due early next week. Well...F&M sent me the wrong order, they placed my shipping label on someones order, so I received some great kelly green numbers in a different font. I hope the other company enjoyed the white/black numbers they must have gotten. Maybe this is more trouble than it's worth, I am a screenprinter and am just trying to streamline my timelines on smaller team orders, maybe I will just stick with screening them.


have you called them? Customer service seems to be a strong point of theirs. I plan on stocking up on stock numbers (Much cheaper than vinyl alternative. I will stock white, and black. I will also order enough (in advance) so I don't need to wait for a long time to do a simple order. It is too bad they messed up an order which you need ASAP. I hope they straighten it out!

I have an order in with F&M currently. Should be shipped out early next week.


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