# Dealing with unknown businesses.. !?



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey, 

I have a question about dealing with "unknown" businesses for lack of a better word. There is probably a term for what I am about to explain, if so please let me know what it is lol. 

I have a concern about dealing with businesses that are far away from myself and that I know little about. Mostly small businesses. I would like to know how to take caution when dealing with this sort of thing. 

I would like to purchase items from the US (I am situated in Canada) but I am a little skeptical about the whole thing. How do I know I am dealing with a legitimate/honest business?

What are some things I should be looking out for and things I should avoid. Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? 

THANKS!


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Start with the preferred vendors here. They've been fairly well vetted, and you can always ask about them on the forum. You don't mention what kind of supplies, services, or equipment you're looking for, but there are nearly always existing threads for you to research.

When paying by credit card most banks, US or Canada, provide a safety net for consumers should the merchant not deliver.

If you must deal with an unknown company, I suppose it's like any other: place only a small order at first, try to use PayPal, Amazon, or some other middleman payment where you don't turn over your financial data directly to the company, etc.


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I am not overly worried as if I pay by Credit Card I have a level of protection via my Credit Card....But I do look for proof of a physical address and better business bureau info...Just be aware of duties and brokerage charges for packages coming over the border....They can be hefty.....


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

GordonM said:


> Start with the preferred vendors here. They've been fairly well vetted, and you can always ask about them on the forum. You don't mention what kind of supplies, services, or equipment you're looking for, but there are nearly always existing threads for you to research.
> 
> When paying by credit card most banks, US or Canada, provide a safety net for consumers should the merchant not deliver.
> 
> If you must deal with an unknown company, I suppose it's like any other: place only a small order at first, try to use PayPal, Amazon, or some other middleman payment where you don't turn over your financial data directly to the company, etc.


I imagine it is the same thing with PayPal for the security?


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

royster13 said:


> I am not overly worried as if I pay by Credit Card I have a level of protection via my Credit Card....But I do look for proof of a physical address and better business bureau info...Just be aware of duties and brokerage charges for packages coming over the border....They can be hefty.....


Is there a website where I can look for information about the business for the US? In my province we have a site where you can look up business information for example the address, years in business, any bankruptcies and names of owners etc.

As for the duties and brokerage fees, what are things I should figure out before proceeding with the buy and finding myself paying high prices for this. I know that you can never be 100% certain when dealing with customs but taking the proper precautions is always a good idea. I have already asked where the items are produced. I was told in the US (but I think they are only decorated in the US). However, I think it is also important to know where the materials come from? What exactly does the seller have to declare when sending the package? What else should I investigate? 

Thanks a lot!


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

As far as finding out information, you just have to Google ans see where it leads you.....I usually put the word "scam" or "rip-off" in my search......

As far as where something is made, a lot of decorators think that if they decorate something in the US, it is Made in the US......But that is not the case....Unless significant value is added to an imported item, it is still an imported item......Duties can be up to 18% on textiles for example....

Here is a page regarding some UPS charges.....
UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

LYFE9 said:


> I imagine it is the same thing with PayPal for the security?


PayPal isn't a bank, but I don't think they're crooks.

If you're this worried about it, best to just buy locally with cash! As you sell more on the Web you'll find it's your customers, not your suppliers, that are the greatest risks. They'll order with stolen credit cards. Say they didn't get a package when they did. Send you a check that bounces.

Best advice: Buy from known companies.


----------



## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

For the most part if you use a credit card you are protected. If you have been legitimately cheated or defrauded the cc company will issue a charge back and you will receive a refund.


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

GordonM said:


> PayPal isn't a bank, but I don't think they're crooks.
> 
> If you're this worried about it, best to just buy locally with cash! As you sell more on the Web you'll find it's your customers, not your suppliers, that are the greatest risks. They'll order with stolen credit cards. Say they didn't get a package when they did. Send you a check that bounces.
> 
> Best advice: Buy from known companies.


I was asking because my PayPal is connected directly to my bank and CC. When you give your CC # they can charge how much they like but with PayPal you send them the exact amount. 

The issue isnt really there though, its more the duties that i'm worried about at this point. 

Also they only provide samples once payment is made. Is that unsual?


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

royster13 said:


> As far as finding out information, you just have to Google ans see where it leads you.....I usually put the word "scam" or "rip-off" in my search......
> 
> As far as where something is made, a lot of decorators think that if they decorate something in the US, it is Made in the US......But that is not the case....Unless significant value is added to an imported item, it is still an imported item......Duties can be up to 18% on textiles for example....
> 
> ...


But is the "decorator" declares it as made in the US what happens then? I guess they can open the package at customs to verify at will. And if they see that the declaration is wrong do they send it back to the seller or they charge me for that?


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

If I am certain or almost certain to be paying the 18 or so % for duties I might as well buy locally but if I can save on that I rather buy cheaper for the same product or even better.

I have yet to find local pricing for the same service locally (custom snapback hats).


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Samples of custom work?.....Samples of previous work?.....Samples of blank products?....


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

LYFE9 said:


> But is the "decorator" declares it as made in the US what happens then? I guess they can open the package at customs to verify at will. And if they see that the declaration is wrong do they send it back to the seller or they charge me for that?


If the shipper makes a incorrect declaration, Canada Customs "may" re-rate the shipment and send it along....Then the courier shows up with a larger than anticipated bill to collect before they hand over your package.....


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

royster13 said:


> Samples of custom work?.....Samples of previous work?.....Samples of blank products?....


samples of custom work.


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

It would be unusual to not have to pay for a custom sample.....


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

royster13 said:


> It would be unusual to not have to pay for a custom sample.....


Paying for a sample is fine. What i'm asking is is it unusual to have to place an order, pay for the whole order and then wait to receive sample before going into production. That way it seems that even if unsatisfied with the sample that you have basically no choice but to go through with the order.. 

I would like a sample to see the quality of the work and fit of the cap. Also to see if they get the design layout right. I do not want to receive a batch of caps where the designs are off. 

When paying beforehand, is the sample at that point to make sure the design is right only? and they would make the adjustments if necessary? If I am unsatisfied with the "quality" of the work more than the "layout" of it what happens then? I guess on that end that is something I have to check with them


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Ask them how much for just a sample?......Are you dealing with a factory or just a middleman?...


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

royster13 said:


> Ask them how much for just a sample?......Are you dealing with a factory or just a middleman?...


Factory. 

At least I think so. I already asked for a sample and the response was "once your order is placed" we send a sample.


----------



## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

In the US?.....


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

royster13 said:


> In the US?.....


Ohh I see what you mean. They're just the decorators. The caps are manufactured elsewhere. I have yet to get a response as to where they are produced...


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

LYFE9 said:


> I was asking because my PayPal is connected directly to my bank and CC. When you give your CC # they can charge how much they like but with PayPal you send them the exact amount.
> 
> The issue isnt really there though, its more the duties that i'm worried about at this point.
> 
> Also they only provide samples once payment is made. Is that unsual?


You can control how PayPal funds your account, including establishing a daily limit. They really can't overcharge you with PayPal, and with a credit card it's super easy to contest the amount if the amount is over what you agreed. This is all very standard, and is part of the rules MasterCard and Visa require of all their banks.

Your best bet with duties is to talk to your local customs office. As a US shipper to Canada, I've found different provinces are more strict than others.

If you are an unproven entity yourself, a vendor might ask you to pay for samples, or at least prove you have an ongoing business before they send samples to you. They get a lot of requests from leechers who just go around pretending they're in the biz. 

It is not unusual for them to send samples only after you've shown you're a bona fide customer, especially if they must ship international to you. Postage is expensive.


----------



## LYFE9 (Jul 21, 2010)

GordonM said:


> You can control how PayPal funds your account, including establishing a daily limit. They really can't overcharge you with PayPal, and with a credit card it's super easy to contest the amount if the amount is over what you agreed. This is all very standard, and is part of the rules MasterCard and Visa require of all their banks.
> 
> Your best bet with duties is to talk to your local customs office. As a US shipper to Canada, I've found different provinces are more strict than others.
> 
> ...


I am situated in Quebec, do you have any experience with shipping to this province?? The company I am dealing with seems legit but they arent the most responsive when it comes to answering questions etc for some reason.. 

You raise a good point about the samples. I get emails from leechers every day as well.


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I found Quebec to be the most capricious with duty charges of all the provinces, BC the least. Sometimes items I send sail right through; other times a small duty are applied; in a few cases -- rare but it's happened -- they've wrongly reclassified the product and the duty charges are exorbitant. It takes time and effort to set these right.

Most companies that ship to Canada know how to fill out the customs paperwork. You should be sure that you can reject the items in case there are customs problems, and receive a credit or refund. You will have to pay for the shipping, unless it's the vendor's fault in filling out the paperwork. You can also ask for a proforma invoice from the vendor prior to shipping, then present that invoice to your local customs office, who can then tell you what import duties will be due.


----------

