# HELP--Versatranz EPT transfers completely coming off shirt after wash



## trendytee

We have used Versatranz EPT transfers for a lot of jobs. We just had two different customers bring shirts in that after one wash, the transfer has come completely off the shirt. We have not changed anything, temp, pressure,time. We are using Gildan 100% whites and colors. Hotronix heat press. Any ideas as to why this is happening? Is it the transfer, the shirt, the press.....need help....I've got 5 different jobs setting here, EPT transfers. Now I'm worried they are all going to do this. I'm going home right now to wash.


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## creativeloop

How old are the transfers? Sounds like they might be too old. If not, I am not sure. We use alot of Versatrans and EPT transfers, and have never had a problem.

leif


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## cherylrm

We have been using Versatranz for years- last year I had a lot of prints coming off- The big problem is sometimes you don't know it's a problem until it's a big problem! Like my case- it was a school and by the time we found out alot of other jobs went through. On this preticular job, the feel of them was never right to begin with- In the past when we would start having issues, we went down the list- Check Temp?- We have digital presses- didn't know it doesn't have a thermometer attached to the digital read out- at one time ours was off by 20 degrees! There is a gun style laser thermometer that works great, it will help check for hot spots on your press too. Also check that your pressure is even- Clamp it down on paper and try to pull the paper out, make sure you can't pull the paper out easily on any side. could cause the prints to come up and off after washings. If you have already done these things let Versatranz know about the problem- They keep telling me that hardly anyone has this issue- The other factor they told me was 100% cotton shrinks so much it causes the print to crack, which isn't their fault. Need to give customers special washing instructions. They will say that they wash test all the time to safe guard for this issue- I'm not sure about that- most the time our prints are good, But I'm not sure that is good enough. Good Luck, they don't handle issue very well.


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## trendytee

Cheryl....thanks for the response. I have digital presses as well...and have discovered the same thing about the temp reading and what it acutally is when measured with a gun. I never got a response from Versatranz other than they've never heard of that happening. We use Gildan 100% pre shrunk....have had a few issues with screens here and there with them. And, like you said it's a huge problem by the time you know it as most of our business is with schools. I will try your suggestions as well...they aren't going to be much help.


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## wormil

Honestly for the price I would consider Versatrans a premium product and I would expect premium performance and customer service.


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## trendytee

Cheryl---meant to say your suggestions are helpful....sorry and thanks!


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## trendytee

Ihave for the most part had good luck with Versatranz, just a few bumps in the road with one job cracking, and this past experience where the screens came completely off on several different transfers---which can be very costly by the time you know it's happening.


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## cherylrm

It was Gildan 100% that we had the problem on too- they have heard of the problem before, from me! They said that the shirts are shrinking too much in the wash- print has no where to go = cracking peeling, prints coming off shirts. We switched to 50/50 for as much as possible, to take that out of the equation, to top it off this problem seemed to be with the white ept- and this job was black and yellow- all of them came off, they were able to recreate the problem, admitted they didn't know what happened and reprinted the sheets- replace the garments, no- which really is where your cost is, besides your reputation. I started using the forums so I could see if other businesses were frustrated as much as I am with the canned response- "we've never seen this before"- when in fact they have- The vendors need to know that we have a place to communicate and will.


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## trendytee

Mine were EPT, 2 color screens as well....Have you had any problems since you switched to 50/50? Makes me angry that their response is we've never heard of this before. The customer service their is not very good....Carol usually is a big help to me.


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## cherylrm

Shelley,
Yeah, Carol is great- they moved her out of customer service though  The 50/50 has been better- but still having issues- the yellow/black prints were on 50/50 and they came off completely. Sometimes it think the couple here or there are customer wash issues- I recommend they wash on warm or cool now- not extreme temps- seems like the cold makes them crack faster- I wish I knew more about plastisol inks and how they work- I am learning the long hard way- I figure the more I know about the process the better- But Versatranz doesn't want to open themselves up to the possibility that the error is theirs. If anyone knows how the transfer is supposed to feel or can give any input on that part of it it would be great. I know the one I had alot of problems with was a 4 color, and when they were put on, everything was right- temp, pressure, the whole deal- the press was just calibrated- but the transfer feel wasn't right- you could feel the edges, and more after it cooled completely. And sure enough, they came off in the wash- so it seems like a stretch test with the fabric makes sense, I just don't know if it mean to press for longer or shorter, how much and over pressing is just as bad. I don't think with the cost of these prints , we should have to do this by trial and error.


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## UBADGE

Looks like I'm having the same issue with Versatrans(z).

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t124213.html


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## trendytee

Exactly what ours did...I don't have an answer, a nd neither does Versatranz. They never gave me an answer....I don't use them for large jobs anymore. I've tested everything. I have two presses we use and don't have any issue with any other company than Versatranz. I did discover that after testing my presses with a thermometer, they were running about 10 degrees hot...you might check that as well. I don't know if that would cause this issue or not. If I have any other info, I'll let you know. Keep me posted if you find anything else.


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## UBADGE

trendytee said:


> Exactly what ours did...I don't have an answer, a nd neither does Versatranz. They never gave me an answer....I don't use them for large jobs anymore. I've tested everything. I have two presses we use and don't have any issue with any other company than Versatranz. I did discover that after testing my presses with a thermometer, they were running about 10 degrees hot...you might check that as well. I don't know if that would cause this issue or not. If I have any other info, I'll let you know. Keep me posted if you find anything else.


I will. I did find that a second press, after pealing with a teflon on top of it helped. I'm three wash and dries in without issue. At least that will hopefully get me through this project.

I sent Cindy at Versatranz and email this morning with those picture attached, no answer yet. I think I'm going to give Howard my business now.


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## trendytee

We were thinking of trying Howard....have you ever used them? We use first edition and transfer express as well.


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## UBADGE

trendytee said:


> We were thinking of trying Howard....have you ever used them? We use first edition and transfer express as well.


I have not used them, but the samples I got from them a few months ago were great.

Downside to them is only 12.5 x 14.5 sheets. Most of our designs are small so ganging them is key. With Versatrans 13x19 we could make 10-15 shirts out of each sheet. That cheaper than screen printing with an auto.


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## cherylrm

Did you notice that they changed the settings for temp and time for ept transfers- I just spoke with them at length and they are still claiming it's not the transfer- they said to increase the temp to 360 and press at firm pressure for 7-9 seconds- they told me except for my issues anyone else who was having the problem is a new operator and the error is because of the press or operator- that the press was off in most of the cases they have seen. Did you check the temp of the actual platen? mine was off from the digital readout by about 15 degrees hotter than what the digital thermometer said- we called hot tronix and resolved the issue- now we constantly check with the gun what the actual temp is. But the thing is was I was led to believe that was the problem- now that we are still having the problem- they want me to increase the temp 10 degrees? was that the problem in the first place? I don't think so-


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## StumpyNC

I have had the same problem on the past 2 jobs I did, using Versatrans EPT transfers, and they told me that this hasn't been an issue - but after reading this string of messages, I can clearly see that it has been an issue - The ink color involved in both my jobs was kelly green - both jobs were done on Gildan 6.1oz 100% cotton - This is one of the most common shirts used in the industry and to blame it on the shirt is just wrong


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## UBADGE

StumpyNC said:


> I have had the same problem on the past 2 jobs I did, using Versatrans EPT transfers, and they told me that this hasn't been an issue - but after reading this string of messages, I can clearly see that it has been an issue - The ink color involved in both my jobs was kelly green - both jobs were done on Gildan 6.1oz 100% cotton - This is one of the most common shirts used in the industry and to blame it on the shirt is just wrong


I'm not sure what it is then. I've had trouble with gray, black, fuschi, and white. 

Versatranz called me yesterday to tell me this is the first they heard of it. However, they didn't try to blame it on my technic or equipment. I'm working with them to try and get some transfers re-done. Maybe I'll ask them to leave off the EPT on the re-done batch.

I'm telling customers to be sure and wash & dry them inside out. If possible to please hang dry.

<fingers crossed>


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## cherylrm

be a little careful with the versatranz- the print is not as opaque- sometimes it needs a second press as well- they will only reprint a job if they print them there and find there is a problem- so they must have found a problem, otherwise they would make you send the problem garments to them to figure it out.


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## wild west

cherylrm said:


> Did you notice that they changed the settings for temp and time for ept transfers- I just spoke with them at length and they are still claiming it's not the transfer- they said to increase the temp to 360 and press at firm pressure for 7-9 seconds- they told me except for my issues anyone else who was having the problem is a new operator and the error is because of the press or operator- that the press was off in most of the cases they have seen. Did you check the temp of the actual platen? mine was off from the digital readout by about 15 degrees hotter than what the digital thermometer said- we called hot tronix and resolved the issue- now we constantly check with the gun what the actual temp is. But the thing is was I was led to believe that was the problem- now that we are still having the problem- they want me to increase the temp 10 degrees? was that the problem in the first place? I don't think so-


I have never posted on here but have been a lurker for a couple years. I felt I had to reply to this thread..I have used all the major transfer companies and have had problems with all of them.. I have been using versatrans for the last 4 years and have had only a few problems.as for the EPT coming off, I had the same problem last year and called them to complain, they asked if I had checked my temp on my press, it said 350, why check it? but I did go to the trouble to buy a gun to check the temp, but raised so much heck that they reran the transfers anyway, well the same day I got the (heat gun?) not sure what you call it, I also got back some shirts I had ordered from another transfer company, same problem, peeling off after 5 or 6 washes, checked my presses with the gun and found that one was 22 degrees too low(was really 328 instead of 350) and the other was 25 degrees too hot(was 375 instead of 350) both hot tronix 16X16 clam sheel presses. I called the company and they walked me through fixing them(1,st was a loose plug,pain to reach) 2nd needed to be re calibrated( another pain in butt) I asked how common this was, Hotronix said it happens once in awhile..I will buy that as I do around 3 to 4000 presses a year(not counting prepressing)one press is about 6 years old, the other 2 years old..I have that gun beside my presses all the time now and have had to readjust them a couple of times..since then I have not had any problems with Versatrans transfers, was it all my press, not sure, was my press off,YES...but I use Versatrans because of their customer service and turn around time..there is a lot of good things I could say about them as a company ..but will leave this reply as everyone should have a way of checking their presses daily...and I will use continue to use them for most of my transfers..another lady that I helped get into the business also had the same presses, hers were off by 23 degrees to low..now we both have the guns sitting by the presses and check them every day...do yourself a favor and buy a tool to make sure your press is really at the temp it says it is..and as with all transfer companies frim pressure means just that


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## proworlded

Thanks very much for this important post. We can't emphasize enough how important it is to check the accuracy of the temperature, whether the machine is new or has years of use.


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## cherylrm

wild west said:


> I have never posted on here but have been a lurker for a couple years. I felt I had to reply to this thread..I have used all the major transfer companies and have had problems with all of them.. I have been using versatrans for the last 4 years and have had only a few problems.as for the EPT coming off, I had the same problem last year and called them to complain, they asked if I had checked my temp on my press, it said 350, why check it? but I did go to the trouble to buy a gun to check the temp, but raised so much heck that they reran the transfers anyway, well the same day I got the (heat gun?) not sure what you call it, I also got back some shirts I had ordered from another transfer company, same problem, peeling off after 5 or 6 washes, checked my presses with the gun and found that one was 22 degrees too low(was really 328 instead of 350) and the other was 25 degrees too hot(was 375 instead of 350) both hot tronix 16X16 clam sheel presses. I called the company and they walked me through fixing them(1,st was a loose plug,pain to reach) 2nd needed to be re calibrated( another pain in butt) I asked how common this was, Hotronix said it happens once in awhile..I will buy that as I do around 3 to 4000 presses a year(not counting prepressing)one press is about 6 years old, the other 2 years old..I have that gun beside my presses all the time now and have had to readjust them a couple of times..since then I have not had any problems with Versatrans transfers, was it all my press, not sure, was my press off,YES...but I use Versatrans because of their customer service and turn around time..there is a lot of good things I could say about them as a company ..but will leave this reply as everyone should have a way of checking their presses daily...and I will use continue to use them for most of my transfers..another lady that I helped get into the business also had the same presses, hers were off by 23 degrees to low..now we both have the guns sitting by the presses and check them every day...do yourself a favor and buy a tool to make sure your press is really at the temp it says it is..and as with all transfer companies frim pressure means just that


We bought the temperture gauge over a year ago- and check even in the middle of orders- the clam press if walked away from will cool down- so you have to make sure the temp is back up - I don't believe it is just one issue- I would like to know more what the feel of the print should be when it is pressed correctly- I have done some research and been washing and drying and adjusting our method, and of course, talking to Versatranz- the print should feel elasticky (probably made that word up) if it's a light print on dark fabric-if it feels stiff after it coools and does not stretch- then I believe it needs more pressure and a higher temp. Now this is just what I have figured out on my own after talking to screenprinters and Versatranz- they keep changing the directions to suit many different manufacturers of presses-( both our presses are Hottronix- both at various ages needed recalibration).- I am in the middle of a riddle here- I don't feel I should have to figure out the temperture and time for a transfer (remember it is called Error Proof Transfer) from a company that I spend over $20,000 each year with. My area is very competive and I can't help but wonder for every shirt that comes back how many haven't and the customer has moved on because they didn't like the quality? I have been a customer for 8 years, before I would get my transfers through Transfer Express- if there was an issue with transfers they would replace them, they even replaced the items I was printing that got messed up-I really like being able to layout my transfer sheet and use it for multiple locations ( if you were going to ask why I don't switch back) I believe there is a resolution to this problem, I also want to keep using Versatranz for my transfers, that is why I'm trying to figure it out myself- and I really appreciate this forum for all of the great input- nothing is worse than being told you are the only one having the problem- I just want to resolve it.


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## franktheprinter

Im sorry to say to my current customers that bring me jobs that require process seperation that
i cannot reccomend Versatrans any longer...i know alot about the processes used in creating transfers as I, myself own a transfer company which processes and prints all spot color and half-toned jobs in house.. Versatranz was very
helpful in taking the process sep jobs I sent and doing a decent job til late last year when i started getting feedback 
from my customers saying they were having all sorts of problems. I contacted Steve (a partner at Versatranz) at a tradeshow we were both at to
basically find out what problems they were having
He basically said that there were minor issues with an
additive used in the powered glue and it seemed 
to be affecting mainly 100 percent cotton fabrics
but felt they would workout the problem)s) soon

Unfortunately it seems they have yet to make the necessary changes from the feedback im reading here and thats a shame...Frank


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## joesmithers

I know this is an old thread but was wondering if the issues with Versatrans EPT transfers been resolved. I got some samples from them and the EPT transfer looks great...durable, opaque, good hand, and passes the abusive stretch test! Now waiting for wash test results before making my order with them.


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## quantum_MC

how's your results so far joe?

-mc


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## Stefano

trendytee said:


> We have used Versatranz EPT transfers for a lot of jobs. We just had two different customers bring shirts in that after one wash, the transfer has come completely off the shirt. We have not changed anything, temp, pressure,time. We are using Gildan 100% whites and colors. Hotronix heat press. Any ideas as to why this is happening? Is it the transfer, the shirt, the press.....need help....I've got 5 different jobs setting here, EPT transfers. Now I'm worried they are all going to do this. I'm going home right now to wash.


Having experienced this problem (fortunately on small jobs), I can empathize with your frustration. No matter who I buy plastisol stock transfers from, about 20% end up like this. The manufacturers usually blame you and say others are not having these problems (except you know better by reading this forum). Of course, it can NEVER be their fault. 

Several people have mentioned using a heat gun to check your platen temperature. I can tell you that the $20 infrared guns are very inaccurate on many platens - something to do with the reflectivity factor of the surface. So you can't tie your problem to temperature if the readings you take are not accurate. Geo Knight sells a digital pyrometer for about $75, and that's the last word in accuracy. 

I just bought a vinyl cutter and plan to do small jobs using vinyl and vend out large plastisol jobs to a local silk screen printer. I'm also looking at dye sub, realizing it's limitations in the garments you can press but it seems more predictable than plastisol trafsfers. 

I wonder if the big paint companies have this quality problem? You spend thousands of $$ to have your house painted then it starts peeling in a few weeks!


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## quantum_MC

i just ran a handful of sample versatrans transfers from versa and hot split from TE. (i've been using TE's goof proof with zero problems so far - but they won't work for a fashion line i'm working on. the prints i need must have a softer feel.) both the versatrans and hot split have that nice soft touch, but the edges and fine lines often don't adhere to the garment like they should. 

i'm finally realizing that yes, the transfers are super convenient and relatively easy to apply. but there's a reason why screen printing is ultimately superior: because the ink goes on WET and better adheres to the garments' fibers. 

i'm on the verge of placing a significant order with versa, but i'm terrified i'm going to spend a lot of money and 20% of the transfers don't perform well.

i'll end with a question and hope the community responds: is there such a thing as a press being too hot, with too much pressure and applying for too long? if the problem truly is inaccurate press temps, then i'm just going to crank mine up to 400, smash the heck out of the shirt and let it press for 15 seconds (or something like that). anyone do that already? thanks for reading. -mc


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## Stefano

quantum_MC said:


> ... is there such a thing as a press being too hot, with too much pressure and applying for too long?


I was doing a large hot peel design a few months ago. My lower platen pad has an irregular surface (12 years of use) so I put a piece of cardboard under the teflon pad protector. 

When I pressed my design, the press closed with great difficulty, and it was then I remembered I hadn't adjusted the pressure for the greater thickness. When the 12 seconds was up, I couldn't lift the handle no matter how hard I tried. I shut the press off and ran around in a panic, looking for something to use as a lever to help lift the handle. 

I finally yanked a board off a wall shelf and pried up the handle. At least two minutes had elapsed, maybe more. I peeled off the backing and was afraid to look. I thought for sure the shirt (heavy, 100% cotton) would be very singed but it wasn't. The design looked good and felt great - almost like a DTG print!

Maybe this was a fluke so I want to try it again some day. But to answer your question "is there such a things as too much heat, pressure, or time" - if there is, I haven't reached it!


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## quantum_MC

if there ever was an answer to the the too hot/too long/too much pressure question - that would be it.

maybe we should just employ a little patience when pressing and let the iron set longer. 400 degrees - 2 minutes and enough pressure to crush a coin -- on steve's recommendation. ha. 

-mc


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## RMadd

We are newbies but just received our first order from Versatranz. HELP!! The transfers don't transfer properly. We are intelligent people with experience with other types of equipment and can follow instructions quite well.We are working with their customer service currently.
Seems that even though their literature indicates the EPT works on many materials, there are issues with canvas, cotton/poly/spandex blend, etc.
Can anyone provide advice/assistance? I thought this company was the top of the line!
Thank!


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## quantum_MC

RMadd said:


> We are newbies but just received our first order from Versatranz. HELP!! The transfers don't transfer properly. We are intelligent people with experience with other types of equipment and can follow instructions quite well.We are working with their customer service currently.
> Seems that even though their literature indicates the EPT works on many materials, there are issues with canvas, cotton/poly/spandex blend, etc.
> Can anyone provide advice/assistance? I thought this company was the top of the line!
> Thank!


like we were just saying - increase temp, increase pressure, increase duration (unless the higher temps will damage the material your printing on, of course). make sure there are no cool spots on your press?

also, i think transfer express is the top of the line (someone feel free to correct me if i'm mistaken), but you pay for it. 

good luck. -mc


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## RMadd

quantum_MC said:


> like we were just saying - increase temp, increase pressure, increase duration (unless the higher temps will damage the material your printing on, of course). make sure there are no cool spots on your press?
> 
> also, i think transfer express is the top of the line (someone feel free to correct me if i'm mistaken), but you pay for it.
> 
> good luck. -mc


Thank you for your quick reply. 
Versatranz told us to do the opposite with their EPT product....decrease temp., reduce pressure.
Also, are you concerned with TE if you use your own artwork?

Thank you!


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## quantum_MC

oh -- i'd listen to them, not me. lol but what i've found is that the transfer doesn't have the adequate time to 'melt and adhere' - which leads to flaking and non-adhesion. 

and my only concern with TE is price. to which concerns are you referring?

-mc


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