# Problems digitizing



## union-empire (Jun 30, 2010)

Hi, Im having trouble with my digitizing. I have a block of stitches - usually tatami, and then want to put an outline or a thin line of stitches round, not a running stitch (althought that results in the same problem) but a satin stitch. When they are on the screen everything looks fine and dandy but when I stitch it out some parts are thin and bitty, some are ok, and some are way off being where they should be.
I have tried adjusting the pull comp and/or the column width and always use underlay. I have tried saving as a PES or a DST.It makes no difference what I stitch it out on - even felt results in the same thing. I end up having to manually go round the design and reshape object or move stitch lines to "overlap" so that when I stitch it out it looks ok even though on screen it looks a dogs dinner. There has to be a better way.
I use wilcom ES and a brother PR600

Thank you Martin


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Martin, 
Viewing the file would be worth a thousand words. Stitch direction and underlay type will make a lot of difference depending on the fabric. Also minimum stitch length and how the machine is set up and if tension is set up properly will make a difference. Generally if it looks perfect on screen, you may have not addressed push and pull conpensation properly

Ian


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Do you use "offset object" in Wilcom? Can you post the file?


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## gliderdigitizing (Jul 22, 2010)

If you can post punched file here or do a private message, I can tell you the exact problem in file.

Regards
Glider Digitizing


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## union-empire (Jun 30, 2010)

Thankyou for all your posts so far, they have been very helpfull.
I have attached two pics, one that wilcom says it will look like and the other what it actually looks like, also the stitch file.
Hope all this uploading malarkey works.


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## union-empire (Jun 30, 2010)

Hmmm, All that uploading went a bit awry but it'a all there.


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## gliderdigitizing (Jul 22, 2010)

union-empire said:


> Thankyou for all your posts so far, they have been very helpfull.
> I have attached two pics, one that wilcom says it will look like and the other what it actually looks like, also the stitch file.
> Hope all this uploading malarkey works.


Hi
Please check attached files, You setup min stitch length to 1.25 which should be .40
and length should be 3.0 and spacing should be 0.37
I have done some other modifications like change in stitches direction,offset object and sequence. Try it now and let me know if any problem. 
Check attached zip file.

Please Press Thanks button if you like my post.

Regards
Glider Digitizing


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

Try it on a different fabric. Looks like you may want to try a heavy cutaway stabilizer and a topping on that fabric. The topping would keep the stitches from sinking in.


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## gliderdigitizing (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi
I am sure, the problem was in design, We do professional digitizing so we know about the fact.
Just try my modified file and let me know if you need any help.

Regards
Glider Digitizing


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Martin,

Two satins would be tough no matter how well you nail the push and pull comp, especially on the fleecy material. 

We would approach this design from a different perspective all together. We would put down the orange first. Punch it as an Input A, use the outer border for the outside point and punch the inside point just inside the blue fill and make it a tatami, not a satin, with edge run underlay. You are basically putting down a tatami column that will extend under the blue fill and give a solid foundation for the final white satin.

Then go back and add the blue fill with an tatami and tatami underlay, change the stitch angles so they are 90 degrees apart. You may have to change the start/stop point to minimize the segmenting. You will have the overlap of the two fills since you punched the orange inside the edge of the blue. since you are using a double tatami underlay, your final tatami can be a lower density and longer stitch than normal.

Lastly put the white satin in as an offset object of the blue fill.

Doing it this way has a couple of advantages. The initial orange will nail the material down to the backing and from that point on you have minimized the effects of push and pull. You also make it easy to add/remove pull comp to the input A to increase the overlap and if needed you also have the ability to shift the entire column in or out by changing the percentages. when the blue fill comes in you may need a tight spacing on the tatami underlay to hold down the fleece but at that point you are simply filling in the hole inside the orange. And when the white satin goes down, the entire design is nailed down to the backing and registration issues are minimized and again, you make it easy to change the pull comp and shift the column in or out to adjust.

You will end up with a slightly higher stitch count since the orange is a tatami but you'll be amazed how much better the end result is and how much more forgiving it is for difference in hooping from one piece ot another.

One thing I noticed, shouldn't thee be an orange outline inside the holes on jst?

Hope it helps.

Mark


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

blue....white....orange is the way to sequence.

orange first??? you will never get the orange the same thickness all over.....you will either see gaps or it will get covered.

sorry but this is my opinion.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

skits said:


> blue....white....orange is the way to sequence.
> 
> orange first??? you will never get the orange the same thickness all over.....you will either see gaps or it will get covered.
> 
> sorry but this is my opinion.


I would tend to agree but I would do the blue with the orange satin, then stradle the white.


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## gliderdigitizing (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi
The correct sequence is as following:
1. Blue Tatami Stitches
2. Red Satin Outline covering all sides of blue tatami stitches
3. White satin will come above on blue tatami stitches
Try it and there won't be any problem again.

Regards
Glider Digitizing


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Isn't digitizing interesting, we are getting all sorts of ideas here and quite possibly all would give acceptable results.

On a more stable substrate I too would punch it blue, orange white with both the orange and white being satins.

The pics appeared to be on a very unstable poly fleece and in this case my original recommendation would work very well. I also gave the recommendation specificically for a fellow wilcom user. I am not saying to put the orange down in a satin. I'm saying to lay down a column that is much wider, tatami stitch that becomes the orange outline but also extends a mm or two under the blue fill. This column lays down the fleece and nails the fabric to the backing. Try it, you just mind find a solution that you can add to your repetoire.

And just for clarification, I didn't just start this yesterday. I've been punching since it was actually punching and a wilcom user since 1995. And almost every day I experiment with something.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Union-Empire...you have just learned a very valuable lesson. Push-Pull is a bear to deal with. As I see it, the main problem with your design is the underlay you picked exascerbated the pull problem rather than fixing it. Tatami stitches will tend to pull the material inwards unless you have properly stabilized the material to the backing. The underlay you picked was a zig-zag in the same direction as the tatami. So you had both the underlay and the tatami conspiring against you. Lately I've been a fan of edge run underlay to adhere the material down to the backing followed by one or two layers of tatami underlay at 90 degrees (for one layer) or 45 and 135 degrees (for two layers). When digitizing for fleece I'm much more concerned about distortion than I am on a more stable fabric so would probably put down two layers of underlay after I go around with the edge run underlay.

I also agree with liberty and would have done the orange border first with an edge run underlay (I use .35 for my edge run setting) and like liberty mentioned I'd have the orange border bump right up against the blue JST. ThenI'd follow with the blue JST. When it came time to do the white outline I'd very much try to use an edge run on that one as well. The reason I say that is you have the white satin stitch going on top of the orange satin and the white will tend to sink into the orange and I'm not a big fan of two satins sinking into each other. Alternatively, you could select the orange column and using stitch angles change the stitch angles of the orange border so they aren't perpendicular to the design. The leaving the white satin stitches at the normal 90 degrees and you would have as much of the white sinking into the orange. This takes more effort and the egde run on the white would give the white satin stitches something to hold onto and they wouldn't sink in as much. 

You don't mention the underlay you used buy hopefully you're using a good heavyweight cutaway.

Embroidery thread (40w) is about .4mm wide and ideally a tatami setting of .4 would give you good coverage but like gliderdigitizing said, what you used is way too dense and this also contributed to you pull problem. With Madeira thread I find I get good coverage using a tatami setting of .38mm.

Keep an eye on the stretch of the material. If the material tends to stretch more in the horizontal then don't put your tatami in the horizontal but angle it like gliderdigitizing did.

other thoughts?


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## ecampbell (Jul 14, 2010)

Really, though people differ on how to arrange the order, the greatest problem I see with your work is that you aren't really compensating for the pull completely. Don't just compensate with the pull comp settings, compensate by digitizing the shape outside of the borders of what you see in the art- Digitizing is an interpretation of the image into what is possible and attractive in thread. Also, don't be afraid of overlapping! You need to overlap at least a little in any transition, otherwise it will always tend to pull apart and show gaps. Remember, no matter what line you follow on screen, pull is constant, and the stitches will always pull back away from that line. 

Personally, I'd usually lay down the largest area first, being the blue thus getting the most distortion possible out of the way, then follow with the red infill and red outlines, being sure to overlap slightly with the blue. I'e avoid the extreme angles some folks use to avoid the lines of the fill splitting at the edges of the overlaid satins- I find about a 5 degree variation will fix that, and using 45 degree angle fills is more likely to cause distortion of the digitized shapes on most fabrics. After the fills and the red outlines are down, I'd come back on top with the white. Also, I'd make sure that none of my satins was thinner than 1-1.2mm. Below that, they will be very likely to vary in quality and width. 

I've attached my version, should you want to check it out.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Well said and a nicely done design...


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## union-empire (Jun 30, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your help. I have learned more in a week than the last few months.
Just need to find the time to put it into practice.

Matrin


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## ecampbell (Jul 14, 2010)

That's the awesome thing about these forums. We can all get together and make the whole industry better. We may be competitors sometimes, but if we all raise the level of quality and skill in the industry, I believe that more people will want our products and will respect our craft. For my part, I like to help where I can.


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