# Transfers feel like vinyl and cracking.



## joey1320

I recently got five designs made by one of the bigger plastisol transfers supplier and I'm having nothing but problems. I contacted the company and they are working with me, but I just want to see what others have done.

I've an off brand press, which I have had for over 2 years and it has worked flawlessly with vinyl designs. I have the pressure knob turned in as much as it would go, no pressure readout.

I'm definitely pushing HARD to close it, which is what the rep from the company said to do.I can't imagine pushing any harder. I'm in good physical shape and I know I'm putting a lot of pressure down.

I have my temp set at the correct setting of 325 degrees and I have checked with a laser gun at about 1inch away from the top platen. My temp reads from 315-330 range throughout the whole plate.

I'm pressing for 7senconds as recommended and peeling the backing paper hot. 

All the ink releases onto the shirts but the design is cracking on the first stretch test. I can also feel the ink sitting on top of the fabric as opposed to being a "part" of it. All of the designs are doing this, although my white ink ones as less noticeable. 

Another thing too, I can feel the ink, it feels like plastic - yes I know plastisol is plastic - but it feels like plastic/vinyl and not ink. And it feels like I could peel it off with my fingernails, although I haven't tried to. 

I'm using quality brand shirts, Gildan 100% cotton, prepressing for 10seconds to release moisture and then pressing. I heated my lower platen and nothing is working.

Any ideas? 
Increase the temp? 
Increase the time?
Lower the pressure? 
Would too much pressure cause the ink to overcure?

I'm in desperate need to get this resolved... 


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## Hegemone

Perhaps try with a different temp gun. I know there are lots of posts about the fact that reflective temp measuring (temp guns) on things coated with Teflon (the heat plate) can be spotty at best. The going advice is to use some sort of temp strip or a probe thermometer on various locations to get a better measurement.

I know that with my press I have one temp gun that gives a good reading and another that just flakes out reading the plate but both give good reading from the flash drier.

Just a thought. I don't do transfers so I cant speak to the transfer itself.


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## joey1320

Hegemone said:


> Perhaps try with a different temp gun. I know there are lots of posts about the fact that reflective temp measuring (temp guns) on things coated with Teflon (the heat plate) can be spotty at best. The going advice is to use some sort of temp strip or a probe thermometer on various locations to get a better measurement.
> 
> I know that with my press I have one temp gun that gives a good reading and another that just flakes out reading the plate but both give good reading from the flash drier.
> 
> Just a thought. I don't do transfers so I cant speak to the transfer itself.


I'll try a different gun and order some temp strips. 

Anyone else?

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## MauiCustomTshirt

We use a couple of different temp guns and also the strips. Stip's are definitely more accurate. 
I don't know what brand or type of transfer your using, but we've tried most. We currently use Versatranz EPT at 350 for 6 seconds and medium pressure, no issues. Feels just like a silk screen.


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## larry

Joey,
I feel that you should go to 375 for 10 seconds and hot peel. This will give the transfer more time to melt in.

[email protected]








joey1320 said:


> I recently got five designs made by one of the bigger plastisol transfers supplier and I'm having nothing but problems. I contacted the company and they are working with me, but I just want to see what others have done.
> 
> I've an off brand press, which I have had for over 2 years and it has worked flawlessly with vinyl designs. I have the pressure knob turned in as much as it would go, no pressure readout.
> 
> I'm definitely pushing HARD to close it, which is what the rep from the company said to do.I can't imagine pushing any harder. I'm in good physical shape and I know I'm putting a lot of pressure down.
> 
> I have my temp set at the correct setting of 325 degrees and I have checked with a laser gun at about 1inch away from the top platen. My temp reads from 315-330 range throughout the whole plate.
> 
> I'm pressing for 7senconds as recommended and peeling the backing paper hot.
> 
> All the ink releases onto the shirts but the design is cracking on the first stretch test. I can also feel the ink sitting on top of the fabric as opposed to being a "part" of it. All of the designs are doing this, although my white ink ones as less noticeable.
> 
> Another thing too, I can feel the ink, it feels like plastic - yes I know plastisol is plastic - but it feels like plastic/vinyl and not ink. And it feels like I could peel it off with my fingernails, although I haven't tried to.
> 
> I'm using quality brand shirts, Gildan 100% cotton, prepressing for 10seconds to release moisture and then pressing. I heated my lower platen and nothing is working.
> 
> Any ideas?
> Increase the temp?
> Increase the time?
> Lower the pressure?
> Would too much pressure cause the ink to overcure?
> 
> I'm in desperate need to get this resolved...
> 
> Thanks!!!
> Johnathan P.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using T-Shirt Forums


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## joey1320

larry said:


> Joey,
> I feel that you should go to 375 for 10 seconds and hot peel. This will give the transfer more time to melt in.
> 
> [email protected]


I tried 375 for 10 seconds and it seems like I got better results. I'll keep you guys updated.

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## proworlded

We recommend 385 and press for 10 seconds. Also, it sounds like you might have too much pressure. It should be a firm, comfortable lock down without having to 'break your arm'.


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## danfisher1137

Two other questions are, do you use a Teflon sheet, or does your top plate of heat press have a Teflon sheet on it? Either of these will cause you to lose some temperature. On your heat press, is it a clam shell or swing arm? Many swing arms have a loose bottom plate so getting the needed pressure can be difficult. Best to use a firm clam shell when using heat transfers.


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## joey1320

danfisher1137 said:


> Two other questions are, do you use a Teflon sheet, or does your top plate of heat press have a Teflon sheet on it? Either of these will cause you to lose some temperature. On your heat press, is it a clam shell or swing arm? Many swing arms have a loose bottom plate so getting the needed pressure can be difficult. Best to use a firm clam shell when using heat transfers.


I didn't use my Teflon sheet on these ones and my top plate doesn't have one either. 

I do have a clam shell one and the bottom plate is secured, so I'm glad I got that one.

Thanks for the help, it seems like the more temperature and time has been better for these transfers. I have a fee samples to wash and see how they hold up.

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## joey1320

proworlded said:


> We recommend 385 and press for 10 seconds. Also, it sounds like you might have too much pressure. It should be a firm, comfortable lock down without having to 'break your arm'.


Okay maybe I'll lower the pressure a bit and see if it helps. Right now I have my temp at 375 and the ink is stretching a lot better without cracks.

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## splathead

It would help us a lot if we knew what transfer company you are using. For example, if it's F&M, they have two types; athletic and fashion. Athletic is thicker and tends to crack. Fashion not so much.


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## joey1320

splathead said:


> It would help us a lot if we knew what transfer company you are using. For example, if it's F&M, they have two types; athletic and fashion. Athletic is thicker and tends to crack. Fashion not so much.


I didn't want to name the company before finding a fix for the problem, just didn't want people to automatically take a negative view of the company. 

Since it seems like my problem is fixed, I can tell you I'm using FM Expressions athletic formula. Both the .15cents one and the regular type.

I had to crank the temp up to 375 and the time to 10 seconds, that's a lot more than 325 and 7 seconds, but I do have an off brand press. 

I made a few samples last nite and tried stretching them this morning and I didn't get any cracks, so it seems like all is well at the moment. I'll report if I have any other issues.

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## joey1320

Well I spoke too soon...
I pressed a few more shirts last nite at exactly the same conditions and I'm getting cracks again. I'm not sure what to do now. 

I'm checking the temp and if reads 370-375 throughout my platen and the time is set at 10 seconds. I'm gonna try different settings again, I'm just angry that I'm wasting so many transfers and haven't gotten but one quality print.

I'm also gonna look for a different supplier, maybe FM is not for me.

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## splathead

joey1320 said:


> Well I spoke too soon...
> I pressed a few more shirts last nite at exactly the same conditions and I'm getting cracks again. I'm not sure what to do now.


1. Stop stretching your shirts. Normal people don't do that. . All plastisol cracks if you stretch it far enough. I've pressed a couple of thousand of their .15 cent transfers, wear a few dozen personally, and have only 1 incident of cracking.

2. Try samples of their fashion formula.


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## joey1320

splathead said:


> 1. Stop stretching your shirts. Normal people don't do that. . All plastisol cracks if you stretch it far enough. I've pressed a couple of thousand of their .15 cent transfers, wear a few dozen personally, and have only 1 incident of cracking.
> 
> 2. Try samples of their fashion formula.


By stretching I mean putting my arms inside the shirt and acting as if I was gonna put it on. Same as I do with shirts I would normally wear. 

You can also hear the ink cracking, which is really weird. It does that at 325 and 375 degrees, although a 375 is was less noticeable. At 325 it was a loud crack, like a piece of plastic being ripped.

I'll keep messing with the settings and see, thanks for the help.

Where are you located? Maybe I can mail you a few of these and you can try em? It could be all me but this shouldn't be that difficult...

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## royster13

I have pressed and sold lots of these and do not have the issues you are describing.....These transfer are thick compared to others and if you press them too long or too hot you will over cure the ink....I press these exactly as instructed by F&M.....Get a probe thermometer....They work better than infrared ones....


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## joey1320

royster13 said:


> I have pressed and sold lots of these and do not have the issues you are describing.....These transfer are thick compared to others and if you press them too long or too hot you will over cure the ink....I press these exactly as instructed by F&M.....Get a probe thermometer....They work better than infrared ones....


I will get one and see. Hopefully that's my problem. Im super happy with the work and turnaround time from FM but I wouldn't sell this with these issues. 

Thanks for all the help guys!

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## royster13

joey1320 said:


> I will get one and see. Hopefully that's my problem. Im super happy with the work and turnaround time from FM but I wouldn't sell this with these issues.
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys!
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using T-Shirt Forums


They are "budget" product.....So you and your clients should not expect the same results as fashion formulas.....I sell shirts done this way at a lower price point than other transferred shirts and I have not really had any complaints from clients...

PS....Even a BBQ thermometer will work in a pinch....


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## joey1320

royster13 said:


> They are "budget" product.....So you and your clients should not expect the same results as fashion formulas.....I sell shirts done this way at a lower price point than other transferred shirts and I have not really had any complaints from clients...
> 
> PS....Even a BBQ thermometer will work in a pinch....


Yeah I understand the lower priced part, but why sell something thats gonna crack before even wearing ??

I contacted a few other companies, hopefully I'll be able to get this resolved. 

Thanks 

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## splathead

joey1320 said:


> By stretching I mean putting my arms inside the shirt and acting as if I was gonna put it on. Same as I do with shirts I would normally wear.
> 
> You can also hear the ink cracking, which is really weird. It does that at 325 and 375 degrees, although a 375 is was less noticeable. At 325 it was a loud crack, like a piece of plastic being ripped.
> 
> I'll keep messing with the settings and see, thanks for the help.
> 
> Where are you located? Maybe I can mail you a few of these and you can try em? It could be all me but this shouldn't be that difficult...


Yeah, thats very unusual to hear the ink crack. 

1. Pre stretch your shirt before you press.

2. Stop wearing [email protected] tees. 

I'll pm you my address


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## joey1320

splathead said:


> Yeah, thats very unusual to hear the ink crack.
> 
> 1. Pre stretch your shirt before you press.
> 
> 2. Stop wearing [email protected] tees.
> 
> I'll pm you my address


Okay so if I'm 6feet tall and weight 330lbs, I shouldn't try a small??? Hmmm 

Thanks for the help, I'll send some samples out tomorrow.

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## joey1320

Well I'm done with these transfers... 

I spent all day today changing temps, times and pressure and all of them end up with a horrible thick vinyl plastic feel and at the first sign of stretch, they crack.

I bought a temp tester and my cheapo press is more than good on that department. It's definitely something with these transfers. 

I went ahead and ordered from a different company, so I hope I have better results. I guess I chalk this one to my learning experience...

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## royster13

They work like I expect 15 cents transfers to work.....But if you and your clients want better and more expensive transfers, there are certainly lots of options....Good luck...

PS.....For premium quality and prices I use Transfer Express.....


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## joey1320

royster13 said:


> They work like I expect 15 cents transfers to work.....But if you and your clients want better and more expensive transfers, there are certainly lots of options....Good luck...
> 
> PS.....For premium quality and prices I use Transfer Express.....



I have decided to go with SEMO transfers. I had a great conversation with Bre and I can't wait to use them. They approved my art files and she has been incredible to deal with. 



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## royster13

joey1320 said:


> I have decided to go with SEMO transfers. I had a great conversation with Bre and I can't wait to use them. They approved my art files and she has been incredible to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using T-Shirt Forums


Semo does good work....If you have the time and less price sensitive clients, you will be in good shape....


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## joey1320

royster13 said:


> Semo does good work....If you have the time and less price sensitive clients, you will be in good shape....


Watta ya mean by the time? Like turnaround time? 



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## royster13

Yes I mean turn around time....Semo takes longer than some other suppliers...

I seem to attract cheap folks that are in a hurry....So they are not an option most of the time...


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## joey1320

royster13 said:


> Yes I mean turn around time....Semo takes longer than some other suppliers...
> 
> I seem to attract cheap folks that are in a hurry....So they are not an option most of the time...


Oh gotcha. These is for an event in May, so plenty of time.

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## MauiCustomTshirt

How does Semo compare to Versatranz?


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## Grant Hill

Did you ever get feed back on the samples you mailed out? Were the results the same (cracking/peeling)? Just curious, I have used FM Expressions about 3 times now and have had excellent results for a newbe. I have also used Transfer Express, and also got excellent results. I just want to know what caused your transfers to fail for future reference.


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## drdoct

If the OP would like to send me a few samples of those .15 transfers, I would test them out for you. I couldn't imagine not being able to use F&M .15 transfers for my inexpensive shirts. 

I looked at Semo, but never used them because of the time they wanted to do the orders. AND I asked for some samples and never heard back anything so I just assumed it was a square hole, round peg sort of thing. I use SEAY Graphics for my multi color transfers. They have a great feel and are very light compared to most. But their white is probably the worst I've seen as far as transfers goes. It's not very opaque AND it seems to grab the fabric color just by it rubbing on the white. But the other colors.... very good. And if it's just white highlights... it's fine. But an all white transfer... it comes out muddy (and that's trying 5 or so different brand and type shirts). But he's fast and cheap and does a great job. Their ordering system is antiquated, but once you get used to just emailing and they have your info on file... it's easy.

PM me if you want another opinion on those .15 transfers. I can send you a few myself if you want to trade. Ones I know are fine.


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## jimcr

What does the design look like , how many colors are in there? What color are the shirts. lights ,darks. 
If your pressing a thick design it takes more time in the press. I have tried samples from F&M without any problems . you say there cracking just putting them on . Did you order them that way ? or did they make a mistake , some times cracking is requested but I take it in you case its not what you wanted. 
I would send a transfer back to F&M and have them press it and see if they can figure out what happened. Sounds like either your press is not hot enough or they had a problem when printing you transfer.
Show us a picture of the problem .


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## joey1320

Due to the response from FM regarding this ordeal, I decided to use SEMO and I'm extremely happy with the outcome.

I ended up using the same settings for the SEMO transfers as I did the FM ones, and the difference was night and day. The SEMO transfers are almost like, not even on the shirt, when the FM ones felt like hard vinyl. 

Now I'm not really gonna bother with the FM transfers, I just chalked that one as a loss. At the end of the day, it could had been a simple printing mistake but the way it all went down via email with FM, it left a lot to be desire. 

I have thrown away the FM tranfers and will only use SEMO from now on. I really didn't start this thread to finish it this way, but this was my experience. 

If you use FM and you are happy, then I'm more than happy for you. I unfortunately did not get the same results. Like I told Ruben from FM, I wish it had been different, but after all the testing, emailing, pictures, waiting and waiting, I decided to look for a different supplier and I'm glad I did. 

Honestly, with the $22 dollar setup fee, and no ganging from FM, SEMO was actually only $4 more, per design, than FM at the specific sizes. So a few bucks extra for what I consider to be a phenomenal result, I can't complaint.

Again, I didn't start this thread to bash FM. I was happy with their pricing, turnaround time and actual design printing, just the final product left a lot to be desire and their customer service was not something I felt was going to work for me. No need to get into the personal details, just expressing why I decided to go a different route.


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## drdoct

Add in that F&M Probably charged you well over those $4 saved in shipping and you're probably ahead. It's funny how different experiences are for people. Of course this is why there are so many different suppliers out there. I'm not loyal per say to F&M. Most of the times I'm looking for the best quality for the best price and sometimes they fit the bill. Other times (like with multi color transfers), they don't. 

I'm glad you were able to get Semo to work out for you. With me it just didn't work out, but maybe I'll give them another look now. If you get in a bind with Semo, I suggest you give SEAY a try. They're really fast and good.


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## joey1320

drdoct said:


> Add in that F&M Probably charged you well over those $4 saved in shipping and you're probably ahead. It's funny how different experiences are for people. Of course this is why there are so many different suppliers out there. I'm not loyal per say to F&M. Most of the times I'm looking for the best quality for the best price and sometimes they fit the bill. Other times (like with multi color transfers), they don't.
> 
> I'm glad you were able to get Semo to work out for you. With me it just didn't work out, but maybe I'll give them another look now. If you get in a bind with Semo, I suggest you give SEAY a try. They're really fast and good.


True. If you can work withing the smaller sheet sizes from SEMO and their larger minimum order, I think you will save some money with them - when compared to FM's "cheap" alternative. 

I'm glad FM has worked for you  I will keep SEAY as an alternative, if a quicker turnaround is needed.

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## djque

Sounds like they could of out to much stretch additive in there ink.


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## franktheprinter

joey1320 said:


> By stretching I mean putting my arms inside the shirt and acting as if I was gonna put it on. Same as I do with shirts I would normally wear.
> 
> You can also hear the ink cracking, which is really weird. It does that at 325 and 375 degrees, although a 375 is was less noticeable. At 325 it was a loud crack, like a piece of plastic being ripped.
> 
> I'll keep messing with the settings and see, thanks for the help.
> 
> Where are you located? Maybe I can mail you a few of these and you can try em? It could be all me but this shouldn't be that difficult...
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using T-Shirt Forums


Hi Joey. I would try to go even higher on temp as it seems you have good pressure from what you said earlier and if your still getting a cracking then the ink must be really thick... go like 385 and see if that helps you...(the key is to gel the ink completely
the thicker the ink the more time or hotter temp you'll need is the general rule) my gut tells me also that your temp just maybe off calibration as that happens with a lot of presses and your probably not at the temp you think you are....


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## Lynn07

MauiCustomTshirt said:


> We use a couple of different temp guns and also the strips. Stip's are definitely more accurate.
> I don't know what brand or type of transfer your using, but we've tried most. We currently use Versatranz EPT at 350 for 6 seconds and medium pressure, no issues. Feels just like a silk screen.


Please tell where we can buy the paper you used. Thank you!


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## MauiCustomTshirt

The temperature test strips are (8-Temp Thermolabel) from paperthermometer.com, we cut them in half before using. The transfers are from versatranz.com


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