# User Reviews for Best Dye Sub Printer (please... no dealers)



## drawing3d

Hello,

I have been wracking my brain to decide on which printer would be best for t-shirts & mugs. I have only used ribbon heat transfer in the long ago past and need to get up to speed in the 21st century!

Looking for good quality, clarity is critical for small print. Need to be able to print on *100% cotton* shirts and *dye sub mugs.*

I have talked to several dealers and they all of course tell me how good their products are but I really want to hear from users. People who own printers and use them give the most accurate recommendations IMHO.

I am trying to find to a printer that has great color and clarity, with an end product that will not fade or wash out _too_ quickly because they are for promotional use of our company... hopefully priced under $1500.

Thank you so much!


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## bornover

How big of prints do you need to print?

Also, 100% cotton and dye sublimation do not mix. If you have to do cotton, you need a form of heat transfer vinyl, DTG or screen printing. And you do know dye sub requires a high polyester content garment, right?

High resolution printing is not a problem now days with any of the printing methods, so what ever method you do end up doing, that won't be an issue.


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## charles95405

Couple of thoughts:
1) I have been in sublimation for 10 years and given up on Epson printers...clogging etc..and am not quite happy with the Ricoh GX7000 and gel sublimation ink
2) Mark is correct sublimation does require high polyester content...best if 100% and on light/pastel colors
3) for cotton, Epson printers and pigment ink...along with JPSS paper works well (the clogging issue with Epson has been in sublimation inks in my experience)
4) There is no good (in my opinion) opaque transfers for dark material that does not have plastic feel
5) for dark garments I suggest DTG or screen printing


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## BGSSUB

I've been in sublimation for about 4 years ... started with the Epson 4800 ... I really do love the print quality, the ability to use rolls of paper ... and have replaced the printhead one time due to the nozzles, etc. being basically eaten away (according to my repair shop) by the abrasiveness of the sublimation ink. Otherwise, it is a great printer and I've done tons of work with it. Th photographic prints onto Chromaluxe, etc. are beautiful!

Recently acquired the Ricoh GX7000. Absolutely love it! Fast print, fantastic quality, ability to handle both the 11"x17" and the 13"x19" paper ... I gang my printing projects to utilize as much of each sheet as possible. My print costs for basic jobs has been reduced as the inks cost less ... although I haven't tried photographic prints (onto Chromaluxe, etc.) so I haven't had the opportunity to compare print quality of photographs between the two machines ... sometime in the near future ...

Done a bazillion (or so it seems!) mugs (ceramic and aluminum) and water bottles with both ... 

My only issues are with color matching ... what's new, right? But, with tinkering and testing I can usually come pretty close ... close enough in most cases. The ColorSure profile for the Epson prints differently than the ColorSure profile for the Ricoh and I have to make adjustments when printing jobs designed and tested on one and then transfered to the other printer. Been a few surprises when I forget ... but that's operator error, not equipment!

Hope this helps!


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## drawing3d

Mark & Charles,

Thanks for your quick replies.

I have about 8 dozen 100% cotton white t-shirts that I purchased "back in the day" I was active in thermal ribbon printing.

I now have 350 white sublimation mugs.

That's part of my problem. I have my foot partly in two separate doors it sounds like.

The print size for the shirts would preferably be at least 8 1/2 x 11... larger would be better of course.

How crisp, clear and long lasting are the pigment inks?

If good, can you recommend printers/models?

If not very, it sounds like I am sending my shirts out to be screen printed. (I have NO interest in learning how to screen print)

Okay...now back to dye sub for the mugs.

Any good printer suggestions?

Thanks so much!


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## drawing3d

BGSSUB,

Yes, your post DOES help. Thank you!


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## charles95405

The least expensive and best sublimation printer for the mugs is the Ricoh e3300..it cost around $450 or so WITH sublimation inks...first use will take some ink as you are charging the system...but afterward it will smooth out. With that price point and the number of mugs you have, you can make some $...by the way the carts for the e3300 are not as large as the GX7000....but they are about half the cost...around $60 per color.

As to the white cotton shirts...which way to go depends on how many of each design do you want...if just one design, screen print might be the best...but I think a good DTG will look/feel better than screen printing. If your design is multi color, each screen will cost $$ and with DTG you do not have that issue. BTW...if you have any designs that are one color...consider heat press vinyl.


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## bornover

For the cotton shirts, a cheap Epson WorkForce printer, that happens to come with pigment inks, would work pretty good on the JPSS transfer paper Charles mentioned. You can get refillable cartridges and bulk pigment very cheap from places like inkjetcarts.us and cobra ink systems. That is if you want very high color and high resolution designs it would be a choice to seriously consider. 

It would be cheaper in the long run with that many shirts to contract screen print if it is only a one or two spot color design though. 

DTG contract printing is a choice especially if you want high color high res stuff but you don't want to deal with printing yourself on transfer paper.


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## drawing3d

Hey, thanks again!

Your thoughts on the mug printing are brilliant.

As for the shirts, I just assumed DTG was way out of my price range...

For the money (less is best!) which printer to give clarity/color/longest use before fade?

Any ideas?


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## joeshaul

I've heard the Ricoh ink is cheaper before, but when I've priced, it always seems more expensive per milliliter. Is there something I'm missing in the equation/does the Ricoh use less ink?

I currently use a C88 with bulk bag system, using Artainium UV+ 110 milliliter bags starting around $120. I think I paid around $600 initially for the system with ink, profile, and a few other tossins in 2008 (got a good deal brand new at a trade show). Ricoh cartridges generally are priced from $60 for a 29 milliliter to $110 for a 68 milliliter. I've thought about getting a Ricoh, so curious about the cost/if people are comparing bulk bags to Ricoh carts, or if they're comparing Epson carts to Ricoh carts. 

As to the OP:
As others have said, Dye sub does not work on cotton, the print will wash out (except for some of the pink, it seems to stick around, found that out while servicing my printer). 

I've had no complaints with my "on the cheap" C88 system as far as print quality goes. The main thing is finding a way to keep it occupied during the slow times so the heads don't get damaged. I usually make a tile mural and do a couple of tiles each day if I don't see anything on the horizon. 

The great thing about dye sub is the wide array of products, I've ran across a few items I haven't been able to print due to size, but the great majority are doable with 8.5x11. If t-shirts are a dealbreaker though, and polyester shirts will not do, then you'll need to look at one of the other methods (DTG, Chromablast, Screen printing, or regular inkjet transfer).


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## drawing3d

Hahaha

I just looked at DTG printer prices (wow - not for the small guy like me)... and now I see what you mean by _contract printing_. I totally missed that the first time around when reading your message.

Thanks for all your input!


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## drawing3d

Thank you joeshaul! (looking up Chromablast next...)

You guys on this forum are just awesome -


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## mazinger

for mugs you can buy an EPSON c88 sublimation inks this work for good 

for cotton i use a EPSON workforce 1100 work fine with c.i.s. hope this may help you not big investment to do a job


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## drawing3d

Thank you mazinger! I will look into both of those as well.


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## Riderz Ready

There are many factors in the equation. What makes dye sublimation tricky is there are many factors regarding cost and print quality. What printer you use is only one small piece to the equation. Depending on what printer you use you may have limited ink options or a wide choice of options to chose from. The ink, the ICC profile, the brand/type of paper, and the substrate on which you print all contribute to the cost and quality of your products. Everyone of those pieces have to be aligned together to get the best and lowest cost finished product. One receommendation is to get sample prints from dealers you are considering and press them onto your mugs. See what you like and duplicate the system through that dealer. If you are new to sublimation it is a must to have a dealer that will hold your hand through the learning process.


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## drawing3d

Wow Mark, what a great suggestion. I never would have considered that. Thank you!


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## freebird1963

I have the Ricoh GX-7000 for sublimation and the Epson WF 1100 for cotton using pigment inks.
Both can do up to 13x19 tho the Ricoh needs the purchase of the by pass tray (150.00+) but will do 11x17 out of the box. The WF does 13x19 out of the box.

If you ever used a regular printer and wished you could print bigger I suggest you go big now.
I am glad I did. Just did some jerseys and was glad I could output to 11x17 for the sublimation.

I like the fact that the ricoh is cart only. I had nightmares with refillables on my c88+ and the thought of a CISS was keeping me from moving forward with a epson plus the people complaining about head and nozzle clogs kept me away from subbing longer also. 

Both are big printers so you need some space for them. 

You can get 100 percent polyester fabric from like Joanns and practice on it to get your skill level up.


Probably the two biggest vendors for the Ricohs is Conde and Johnsnon Plastics. Both have pretty good reputations for help and support. 

Good Luck
Mark


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## freebird1963

joeshaul said:


> I've heard the Ricoh ink is cheaper before, but when I've priced, it always seems more expensive per milliliter. Is there something I'm missing in the equation/does the Ricoh use less ink?


If I recall right and I think its on the forum here or maybe in one of his articles on sublimation but if I recall right it was said that the Ricoh uses less ink than the epsons when printing. I think the difference was considerable in the long run. At least thats what sticks in my mind from my researching before I got my GX-7000

Good Luck
Mark


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## Chillisland

just my first testing.

after installing the new printer i end up with:

82% C
82% M
82% Y
84% K

printing 30 Mugs, medium color, all over, took 3% of ink.
would cost me 0.10USD per Mug.

this is how i did it (taken from Conde)

Cartridges are $(your cost incl airfreight) each for a total of $(times 4) per set

So for $(your total cost for all 4) you get 400% of ink (100 x 4)

1% of ink cost $(your total cost)/400 

than i went even more down, for 1 cm squere. 
so that i get proper prices in future for doing puzzle and other ink consuming stuff.




but that been the first brake down


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## KP

cool posts - i keep hearing the Ricoh. What kind of volume do you need to do to move away from sublimation?


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## graphicscat

I had an Epson 1400 and went through two of them in only three years. Same issue each time. Ink constantly clogs then when cleaning it has a hardware malfunction. This happened TWICE. Epson was terrible in trying to fix the problem then never reimbursed me for the first one that was under warranty. I'm not looking at Ricoh...anything besides Epson. I've had it. I never had consistency with print quality...EVER. Bad!!!


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## Riderz Ready

graphicscat said:


> I had an Epson 1400 and went through two of them in only three years. Same issue each time. Ink constantly clogs then when cleaning it has a hardware malfunction. This happened TWICE. Epson was terrible in trying to fix the problem then never reimbursed me for the first one that was under warranty. I'm not looking at Ricoh...anything besides Epson. I've had it. I never had consistency with print quality...EVER. Bad!!!


Another example of the Sawgrass Cartels succes in being able to blame printers for their low quality ink. Rest assurred your issue is not Epson. Epson printers run flawless with quality ink. Sawgrass ink is old technology, clogs printers, and destroys printheads. Why would Epson be responsible for you putting in crappy ink and destroying the printer? 

A printer is a printer is a printer. Use crappy ink with a bad profile and it matters little what printer you use.


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## texasjack49

I agree with Charles that for a novice the cheapest and best way to get into sublimation is with the Ricoh 3300, it's almost plug & play and yes it uses less ink per print when compared to Epsons. The best way to buy a Ricoh is thru Conde or Johnson Plastics for the support you will need after the purchase. You will be limited to 8 1/2 X 11 which is fine for 90% of sublimation. I had one but sold it because it didn't get much use. 
Our sublimation printer is the Epson 4800 and it has been printing for about 4 years. It prints great especially high end photos on Chromaluxe panels. we used sawgrass ink for about 2 years but now use refillable ink carts so our costs are lower that using a Ricoh. Epsons are great printers for high quality work.
For pigment ink printing I would say the Workforce 1100 with a ciss.
Contact Richard at Cobra Inks in Tennesee and he can fix you up with everything you need, printer, ink and support and save you $$$.


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## spiderx1

Clogging is fairly common with dye sub inks or Dtg inks if not used on a regular basis, every few days. Epson nor any other printer will warranty the print head when using a non Epson OEM ink.


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## mgparrish

spiderx1 said:


> Clogging is fairly common with dye sub inks or Dtg inks if not used on a regular basis, every few days. Epson nor any other printer will warranty the print head when using a non Epson OEM ink.


I disagree, it must be proven the 3rd party inks caused the damage, otherwise it is not legal to void for that reason. 

Refer to the link below ... 

Magnuson

"Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[2] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions,[3] and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives."


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## Big Al

Good luck with the Ricoh, hope it dies on you before the warranty expires the whole system is just a ticking time bomb and will bite you back hard when you least expect it.


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## johnled57

Years ago I sublimated using and Epson 3000 and Artainium ink (I think Sawgrass makes it). The printer died and I never replaced it but I am considering getting back into sublimation. I've never heard of Cobra inks but what I read on here it sounds lie the way to go. Are Cobra colors just as vibrant and long lasting as Artainium? I have t-shirts and coffee mugs that were printed YEARS ago with Artainium ink and they still look great. Does Cobra supply ICC profiles? I remember that being a problem back in my old days of printing.

Thanks!


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## mgparrish

johnled57 said:


> Years ago I sublimated using and Epson 3000 and Artainium ink (I think Sawgrass makes it). The printer died and I never replaced it but I am considering getting back into sublimation. I've never heard of Cobra inks but what I read on here it sounds lie the way to go. Are Cobra colors just as vibrant and long lasting as Artainium? I have t-shirts and coffee mugs that were printed YEARS ago with Artainium ink and they still look great. *Does Cobra supply ICC profiles?* I remember that being a problem back in my old days of printing.
> 
> Thanks!


 
.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began


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## Big Al

I have placed an order with Richard for a CIS kit and ink and have ordered an Epson printer, at least the printer was relatively cheap so if it gives up after a year I wont be so sore not like the Ricoh GX7000 which was very expensive IMHO.


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## FatboyGraphics

Epson 7800 and Sublim Inks have been bullet proof for me for a year so far.


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## HoneyBee2016

charles95405 said:


> Couple of thoughts:
> 1) I have been in sublimation for 10 years and given up on Epson printers...clogging etc..and am not quite happy with the Ricoh GX7000 and gel sublimation ink
> 2) Mark is correct sublimation does require high polyester content...best if 100% and on light/pastel colors
> 3) for cotton, Epson printers and pigment ink...along with JPSS paper works well (the clogging issue with Epson has been in sublimation inks in my experience)
> 4) There is no good (in my opinion) opaque transfers for dark material that does not have plastic feel
> 5) for dark garments I suggest DTG or screen printing


Please can you tell me where can I purchase this Ricoh 7100 printer at and how much.


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## Crimsicle

I'm just a hobbyist and haven't been doing this long, but I'm very happy with my Epson C88. I use a no-name ink I get from Amazon with refillable cartridges, and I've had great luck. I made a test file with blobs of all four ink colors which I print out every few days just to make sure the nozzles are all clear. Sometimes I have to run a nozzle cleaning, but buying ink in 4-ounce bottles, I don't feel any pressure about wasting too much money keeping them clear. I have been very pleased with the quality I'm getting. I've done maybe 4 cases of mugs and quite a few shirts. Everything has looked great. I'm using the Hix mug wraps in my oven. Works great. Thought you might like to see the mug I made (yes...I stole the art off the internet somewhere) the day after David Bowie died. I use this mug a lot, and it's been through the dishwasher many times. Not a smidge of fading. If you're not into high production, you don't have to spend a fortune to get great results.


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