# Ricoh GX7000 won't turn on



## Red744T

Has anyone encountered this problem, where the Ricoh GX7000 abruptly turns off after printing about 3 inches of the graphics and won't turn on. It was streaking pretty badly before the auto shutdown. There's cyan and black streaks across the entire page. We were using DyeTrans Ink.

We bought it a year ago and haven't really printed that much with it, maybe 4 sheets of paper worth of ink. . . is it dead? any trouble shooting we can do?

Thanks,


----------



## Conde_David

Give me a call tomorrow and I will help.


----------



## BillyV

I have one even better than that....
I push the power button and hold it a second and the power light comes on and within a second the panel lights flash and the unit turns off!

Arghhhh~!


----------



## generalee72

I would do a search about this. I recall a number of people talking about having some recent problems with the Ricoh's, definitely call David I know he has been helping alot of people out.

I'm really hoping the issue gets resolved soon, I'm considering getting started in the business and was leaning towards the Richo 7000, but now I am very concerned about them.


----------



## jiarby

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo[/media]

This sums it up....


----------



## BillyV

From what I have been reading in the last couple hours it looks like it is the power board!
Seems to be a trait of the GX7000...


----------



## freebird1963

yea and sucks for those of us over a yr and can't get the exteneded. Sounds like they know about this and should post either a recall or offer a fix. I read on another forum that it could be related to the sawgrass carts. Guess a while back that had a similar issue with the epsons I think it was. 
In doing a search I havent seen any posts were those using the ricoh standard ink carts are having this issue so it does make me wonder and scared to think one day I could be out 1300 bucks.

Mark


----------



## Conde_David

I may can help.
When was your purchase date?


----------



## freebird1963

David
If replying to me , doubt it. When it broke right at the warranty time limit you couldn't really help. I had to deal with Ricoh directly. And now 4 more months have past.
When I contacted Sawgrass and Conde about the extended warranty Sawgrass said contact you all, and you all said so sorry past the year mark. Which is sad and makes me wonder if everyone doesn't know if there is a defect in the unit or unit/cart combo. I have a LG tv that is going on 2 years old and LG still offers me the option of getting the extended warranty and it gets alot more use and only paid 5 bills for it.
But like others I cross my fingers and pray to the big guy.

Mark


----------



## jiarby

My GX7000 was purchased January 2009... can you help me get an extended warranty? What can you do for people that have printers outside of OEM warranty being damaged, presumably by using sawgrass ink?

Anyone on the internet heard of a GX7000 failing when using OEM ink?


----------



## Red744T

I am in a similar situation. Our GX7000 died two month ago, and it was bough last August. To give Conde credit, they were pretty nice and offered a replacement GX7000 at a discount, but I had a hard time getting the accounting to approve the purchase. So now even if accounting gives the okay to buy, we'll be 4 month out of warranty. . . 

Originally we bought the GX7000 with its gel base ink system specifically because we know the machine may sit idle for extended period of time. The accounting department was not too amused when the machine bought for a specific purpose did not perform as expected and I am asking to buy another one. Also, base on the cost of the machine we ended up with $300 test print mugs. They basically told me, to wait in line till the end of the year. 

I googled but couldn't find anything on repairing the GX7000. With nothing to loose I open up the GX7000 and disconnected all the connectors to the main pcb and started to reconnect the connectors one by one until I duplicated the power one, led flash, and powered off symptom. 

I found that as long if the CN3 connector from the power supply board is not connected to the CN104 connector on the main pcb, the printer will turn on, LCD will light up, start the self diagnostic process, display top cover not closed properly, and then error 999 power off on. The diagnostic will also pick up which door/sensor is not closed. 

If the problem can be fixed as easily as replacing a power board, or maybe a board component, it seems quite a waste to throw the GX7000 away. Does anyone have a GX7000 service manual, or can tell me what's the proper voltage value for the CN3 connector on a good power board? Or any ideas on how to fix the GX7000. 

thanks,


----------



## mrteak

theres no way of getting a replacement board..that really stinks that such a reputable company like ricoh doesnt make replacement parts for such an expensive product..i've been wanting to buy one for the last month and am really scared to invest the money and the product becomes a big paper weight..if the board was available it would be a much easier decision even if it cost a couple hundred dollars at least you know it can be fix...guess i'll keep on really thinking about it...


----------



## freebird1963

So you never used the sawgrass dye sub inks in it ?
IF so then thats def a ricoh issue and they need to step up and recall them. 




Red744T said:


> I am in a similar situation. Our GX7000 died two month ago, and it was bough last August. To give Conde credit, they were pretty nice and offered a replacement GX7000 at a discount, but I had a hard time getting the accounting to approve the purchase. So now even if accounting gives the okay to buy, we'll be 4 month out of warranty. . .
> 
> Originally we bought the GX7000 with its gel base ink system specifically because we know the machine may sit idle for extended period of time. The accounting department was not too amused when the machine bought for a specific purpose did not perform as expected and I am asking to buy another one. Also, base on the cost of the machine we ended up with $300 test print mugs. They basically told me, to wait in line till the end of the year.
> 
> I googled but couldn't find anything on repairing the GX7000. With nothing to loose I open up the GX7000 and disconnected all the connectors to the main pcb and started to reconnect the connectors one by one until I duplicated the power one, led flash, and powered off symptom.
> 
> I found that as long if the CN3 connector from the power supply board is not connected to the CN104 connector on the main pcb, the printer will turn on, LCD will light up, start the self diagnostic process, display top cover not closed properly, and then error 999 power off on. The diagnostic will also pick up which door/sensor is not closed.
> 
> If the problem can be fixed as easily as replacing a power board, or maybe a board component, it seems quite a waste to throw the GX7000 away. Does anyone have a GX7000 service manual, or can tell me what's the proper voltage value for the CN3 connector on a good power board? Or any ideas on how to fix the GX7000.
> 
> thanks,


----------



## Red744T

freebird1963 said:


> So you never used the sawgrass dye sub inks in it ?
> IF so then thats def a ricoh issue and they need to step up and recall them.


No, it's for dye sub. Otherwise, why spend that kind of money on a ink jet printer. 

However, I took the printer apart and Il don't see the connection between the printer failure and the dye sub ink.


----------



## freebird1963

Red744T said:


> No, it's for dye sub. Otherwise, why spend that kind of money on a ink jet printer.
> 
> However, I took the printer apart and Il don't see the connection between the printer failure and the dye sub ink.


ON another forum it was said that there were issues with the sawgrass carts and the printers.


----------



## Red744T

freebird1963 said:


> ON another forum it was said that there were issues with the sawgrass carts and the printers.


That was my first impression as well. The fact that Sawgrass nor any of the dye sub vendor took the initiative to investigate and explain to us, the nature of the failure, only reinforces our assumptions.

It could be that ink leaked and caused some sort somewhere that burned something shutting the machine down. . . I don't know. All I know is if I connect CN3 on the power supply board to the main pcb, the printer will shut itself off without even going into the initial diagnostics. 

I'm not too happy because I feel like I am getting the "treat it as a disposable electronics" mentality from the vendor, yet this is not a $50 inkjet printer we buy from office depot. 

Does anyone know if the GX7000 shares the same power supply as another Ricoh model?


----------



## freebird1963

I wonder if theres a batch number serial prefix that could be checked to see if maybe its a certain batch of them that has bad parts. Since some people say they have had theirs 2 yrs and the dying ones seem to be newer. 
I remember when I had my comupter store we got harddrives that were made in china or singapore with lot numbers that were bad. We had to return like 15 hard drives cuz of poor manufactoring.


----------



## ypooj

I am in Australia, and my GX7000 has just done the same thing. I bought it in September 2009 and hardly use it. I had to replace the ink collection unit, so bought this from the local Ricoh dealer. Replaced the unit and reset the printer as the directions said. I then turned off the printer and came the next day to do a nozzle clean before printing. It switched on and started to go through its process. Then it just stopped. I pressed the Power button again and the panel lit up and turned off. This is all I get now. I have since emailed Ricoh who have advised speaking to their local dealer. I am waiting for them to ring today. Sawgrass responded to my email with advice to talk to the supplier of my inks. I have sent them an email and waiting.
Can anyone tell me what the outcome has been? I have new sub paper and inks not used which amount to dollars I can't afford to lose. And I have shirts that I have purchased for an order that I keep putting off- originally because I needed an ink collector unit. PLEASE HELP!


----------



## jiarby

September 2009?

If you have an extended warranty you can contact them

If not, you will have to bully your ink vendor into covering it. You may have luck with the dealer that sold you the collection unit. 

Warranty is 1 year, and if you are outside that then you will have to buy a new one. 

Good news... look for a GX5050... same ink as the 7000. Otherwise, on the cheap, you can get a new e3300n for about $150-200 (US). Ink carts are $60 each forthat printer.


I hope soon that someone will discover the actual cause and come up with a repair process and/or parts kit to DIY. 

I do not mind throwing away a $150-200 printer... but a $1000 is tougher to swallow.


----------



## Conde_David

Your Sawgrass dealer is your best bet.
I assume it is 220v unit?
See what they can do.
Let me know, maybe there is something I
can do.


----------



## ypooj

Thanks. My Sawgrass dealer is away until 10th Jan so will have to wait. But despite the dollars I have spent with them, I didn't buy my printer from them, so I have reservations about how much help they'll give. 

Maybe if everyone submitted to this forum the serial number of their Ricohs that have had this problem, it may provide some clue to the malfunction???


----------



## ypooj

The Serial Number for my Ricoh GX7000 is R2371000009 which I gave to Ricoh.


----------



## Red744T

Following up on the dead GX7000, it's still dead and though initially I thought the problem may be with the power pcb, after taking it to a few troubleshooting specialists at the local hackerspace, and swapping out one of the suspected mosfet, it's still dead. Without a service manual it's quite hard to diagnose the board. We went through on onboard check points and everything checkout except for the 37V check point. 

It's time to find a replacement, but do I really want to buy another GX7000, given that this one only printed a total of 4 pages?

We thought the MOSFET that controls the 37V circuit was bad, but swapping it out did not solve the problem. Leaving it plugged in with the replacement MOSFET finally killed off the GX7000 completely. Pressing the power button has no effect now.


----------



## freebird1963

For all the Ricohs owners out here how about a investigation into what the heck is going on. I get nervous when I have to turn my ricoh off and back on. Every time it makes a funny noise my butt slams shut and I cringe. These aren't some cheap HP or Epson throwaway printers we are dealing with.



Conde_David said:


> Your Sawgrass dealer is your best bet.
> I assume it is 220v unit?
> See what they can do.
> Let me know, maybe there is something I
> can do.


----------



## ypooj

I have had contact with the local Ricoh tech and he is going to price a motherboard to see whether it is worthwhile fixing (if that is the problem as per these threads).

My husband understands electronics and has disconnected the CN3 from the powerboard and it powered up. A fault came up saying that the tray wasn't in. As soon as he reconnected the CN3 to the powerboard, it reverted to the power light displaying and then blinking off when the power button was pressed. He believes it is a fault in the powerboard. However the Ricoh tech thinks it is probably the motherboard. He is getting me a price before he physically looks at the printer (cost min $95).


----------



## Red744T

Originally I thought it was the power board, but I am leaning toward the main pcb. However without a service manual it's quite hard to trouble shoot. I took the GX7000 to a local hackerspace. We probe the voltage test points on the main pcb and everything reads okay except for the 37V. Originally we thought one of the MOSFET on the power board regulating the 37V supply was bad, but changing it out did not solve the problem. 

What I learned from the hackerspace is that the machine is always on, ie no mechanical on/off switch. By pressing the power button, it will switch on the 37V power line (the big red wires from the power pcb) and power up the machine. However, the main pcb is not getting 37V. 

We really need the service manual to diagnose the problem. As long if the fault is not with one of the proprietary IC, the machine is probably fixable. . . . 

Anyway, I couldn't power on my GX7000 anymore, not even with CS3 disconnected so I'm looking for an replacement printer now. 

Be very very careful when trouble shooting the pcb. Parts of the system(power supply to the print head?) runs on very high voltage.


----------



## ypooj

Thanks for your reply. After reading through the forums, it is extremely obvious that there are a multitude of effected Ricohs (and this forum would prob only include a small percentage of us)!

I cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel, as it seems that our supliers have wiped their hands of people who are out of warranty (even if it is a short time). It is obviously a huge problem, and yet the local Ricoh tech cannot find any notes on this on their bulletin board! Is it a case of head in the sand? 

I will need anothe printer too, and although I have 2 just installed cartridges, 2 in the box, new 100 sheets of paper, numerous T-Shirts and coasters etc on hand, I am extremely reluctant to buy Ricoh. And I will now tell people about my experience. Before this incident, I was very happy with the printer. It took months of stuff-ups and anxiety as I was learning the ropes, but I had just become confident in what I was doing. And I was all inspired to begin the year on lots of new projects.

If I buy Epsom, I have to start learning all over again, and my outlay in time and equipment would be huge. 

The local Ricoh tech has priced a motherboard for my GX7000 at $417.70 plus $95 per hour labour. It may not be the problem!!!

This really sucks! I have been a good customer and paid lots for my inks $650 each time, plus all the other requirements. I was just starting to break even.

What type of printer are you looking at? I have no idea.


----------



## freebird1963

Seen many going with the Epson WF 1100 and Cobra Hi Temp inks and CISS.
People seem very happy( sounds too familiar).
Dicussion on here about them.

Good luck
Mark


----------



## royster13

I think it is a very bad idea to make a judgment about the quality (good or bad) of the GX7000 based on posts on this forum or others.....I am sure if you look hard enough you can find negative information for just about every product sold....And when a few dis-satisfied users make a lot of noise it can skew the what the reality is......Yes there are some "lemons" but is this an epidemic?...No way to tell with such limited information.....


----------



## jdoug5170

David Gross...you have been somewhat active on this thread and I'm guessing you are trying to help. But, it would be nice if you would jump in here and explain what is happening as you see it. Conde has to have sold 100's if not 1000's of these machines and it would be interesting to know what percentage you are finding to be failing.

You were very excited about this printer early on, how do you feel now? Is this problem just with the 7000 or are you seeing it as a problem across Ricoh's line? How about the 5050? The one that everyone says is not sublimation compatible but take the same carts as the 7000? Is it a viable printer for those of us with the 7000 carts full of ink but can get by with a smaller format. I do mostly mugs with mine so the large format is not needed. I sure don't want to go to the 3??? with the smaller carts.

Come on David, you have been a straight shooter, how about a straight answer on this one?

Doug


----------



## Conde_David

Thanks.
I am an electrical engineer.
I have careful researched this issue.

I am sorry when any printer fails.

The Ricoh failure rate is very low as we
we have sold the bulk of the Ricoh printers.

The failure rate at this point has continued
to decrease. 

I am confident that the issue is now behind us.


The Ricoh is the best printer by far.

If there folks out there that need help I will
do my best. Let me know.


----------



## jiarby

why not use the 5050?


----------



## Conde_David

Do you mean the gx e 5550n?


----------



## jiarby

whichever one takes the GX7000 carts, but doesn't do the 13x19


----------



## ypooj

Do they still sell the GX5050n? I have scoured the web trying to find one, but seems the GX e3300n has replaced it. It would be the only solution at the moment despite my fear of this happening again.

Unfortunately I am in Australia and you prob can't help me David. I have tried to buy from Conde in the past, but the extremely high cost of shipping (you only use Fedex or UPS) and won't take my credit card. I also have a PayPal account but that's not allowed either.


----------



## jdoug5170

Conde_David said:


> Do you mean the gx e 5550n?


Yes, that is the one. I've heard that the 7000 carts will fit, they just need some push and then they go right in.

It would be sweet to have an alternative to the smaller format without going down to the one you are selling. (Sorry, don't have a memory for model numbers....I can't hardly remember the 6 printers in house that I have to keep fed with ink)

Doug


----------



## toomeycustoms

Add another one to the list. I have a GX7000 with Sub ink and went to print today and it was leaving a lot of lines. Tried to do some head cleanings and then a paper jam error, first one ever. The paper wasn't even jammed. Cleared the "jam" and when it was resetting itself, it turned off. Now when I try to power on, the lights lite up and then turn off. Will be contacting my dealer where I purchased it tomorrow. 

To the others that had this problem, how was it fixed?


----------



## jiarby

It wasn't fixed... the printer is dead. If you are still in the OEM warranty then sawgrass will replace it. If it is past your warranty period you are probably hosed. 

Contact your vendor, verify purchase date (and get invoice), then call sawgrass & open a support ticket.


----------



## jiarby

well, that is only about $6 per shirt. ($1200 for a GX7000 divided bt 200 shirts) 

Did you make that much?


----------



## binki

tattered said:


> All I know is, I wish there was a cheaper alternative for the GX7000 large format printing.


the gx7000 is a tabletop, not large format printer. 

the epson 1280 will do tabloid paper. if you are in socal there is a place in costa mesa that sells refurb units. They are right by Whittier Law School. 

Computer Co-Op - Epson Certified Warranty Cusotmer Care Center


----------



## Conde_David

You had the printer for 20 months and did 200
prints?


----------



## jiarby

> You had the printer for 20 months and did 200
> prints?


Isn't this the meat of the market for sublimation/engraving supplies & equipment sellers? 

Maybe he coulda got by with a c88 but some weasel at a trade show (probably JPKevin - LOL) demo'd him the GX7000! 

***WARNING***
All you pie-eyed noobs going to ISS this weekend... LOOKOUT! Those guys in the vendor booths go to 20 of these shows a year and spend 12+hrs a day there. They are good at selling you stuff. It sounds great at the show and you are super excited. Then the OrgasmatronXT arrives and you realize you have no business plan to actually SELL the stuff (well, you probably DON'T realize it!)... but it cool to have. 

Disclaimer... 
I have an Excel 5000 UV Epoxy Photo Plate machine in my garage... will cut you an awesome deal for it and a truckload of blanks.


----------



## freebird1963

jiarby said:


> Isn't this the meat of the market for sublimation/engraving supplies & equipment sellers?
> 
> Maybe he coulda got by with a c88 but some weasel at a trade show (probably JPKevin - LOL) demo'd him the GX7000!
> 
> ***WARNING***
> All you pie-eyed noobs going to ISS this weekend... LOOKOUT! Those guys in the vendor booths go to 20 of these shows a year and spend 12+hrs a day there. They are good at selling you stuff. It sounds great at the show and you are super excited. Then the OrgasmatronXT arrives and you realize you have no business plan to actually SELL the stuff (well, you probably DON'T realize it!)... but it cool to have.
> 
> Disclaimer...
> I have an Excel 5000 UV Epoxy Photo Plate machine in my garage... will cut you an awesome deal for it and a truckload of blanks.


Wow you must have cried for a week when you found out that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Tooth fairy weren't real. 

DISCLAIMER: I still believe.


----------



## cabl000

David, after reading all of the same problems with the Ricoh GX7000 I now see that I am not alone. I work at a school and we purchased one machine from Conde in 2009 and one in 2010. Both have since had the same problems. After trying to clean the head while using the sawgrass ink, the machine suddenly powers off and will not come back on for more than a few seconds. The one we purchased in 2009 went down at the in 2010 and luckily was still covered under the original warranty. It was replaced... but now the replacement went down a couple of weeks ago after just over a year of use. The one we purchased in 2010 went down about a month ago. We have been through 3 GX7000 machines and they have all had the same problem. I think this really should be recalled by either RICOH or SAWGRASS. Neither one of these manufacturers are owning up to the fact that they clearly have a defective product. This clearly is not just one or two people getting a lemon and these printer cost way too much to just throw them out and replace them. If there is anything you think you can do please send me an email or write me back.


----------



## Conde_David

Yes, please give me a call.
I hope to provide additional info in the future.
For now, expect to hear a lot less about this issue.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Cabl000 I feel your pain. The biggest problem with this market is there are so few players that at times we have all felt like we were being held hostage with no place to turn. We in the large format market so at least have a few positive alternatives. The people on the desktop market are stuck with no place to go. You can bet your final dollar that Ricoh, Sawgrass and the distributors are well aware what has been causing all the issues. Why the silence? One can only assume that all involved are concerned that releasing the problems to the public will start an effort for a recall and depending on the how many of these things are out there a potential class action suit. Ricoh and/or Sawgrass has the fact that most of these things are not used on a daily basis on their side. It seems many people are content getting a small replacement loaner. I could not imagine Epson telling me that they will give me a Epson 1400 as a loaner for 6 months until they could get a Epson 9880 to replace the one we have. As a community we are virtually powerless as I would guess 80% plus of the dye sub market does not do it as a living but as extra income etc. thus there is not the drive to put presure on the people who control this market. Good luck


----------



## freebird1963

Thing is I couldn't find any GX-7000 owner saying that their printers experienced this problem using the OEM pigment inks. 
Over on the dyesub.org board I think it was there was mention of Sawgrass having issues with their inks taking down epsons awhile back. Kinda of coincidence that another printer is using Sawgrass inks is having a somewhat similar issue.

The fact that D.Gross is got a announcement down the road and says he forsees less of this issues makes me think that a issue has been deteremined and a cause found. The thing is if so what is it so those of us that haven't been hit can avoid being taken down especailly if its related to the Sawgrass carts. Cuz I am gonna need to buy new ones here shortly and am quite worried and freaked about it.
We need a Ralph Nadar for printers ??


----------



## Riderz Ready

Now your talking Mark but we need a Ralph Nader for Sawgrass. They are the evil empire of sublimation.


----------



## Red744T

Conde_David said:


> Yes, please give me a call.
> I hope to provide additional info in the future.
> For now, expect to hear a lot less about this issue.


I've seen your video and read your articles on dye sub and I think you are passionate about this industry and I like Conde, but saying we should expect to hear a lot less about this issue after a guy who just gone through 3 GX7000 is hardly reassuring.

I know, a $1k printer is just a drop in the bucket compared with a professional dye sub printer, but at least give us some detail on why our $1k printer died and what measure has been taken to prevent future failures.

The dead printer looks fine and I hate to see it going to the landfill. Maybe there's some legal or cost prohibition to repair the gx7000, but at least let us know so we can make our own decisions.


----------



## Red744T

So, my GX7000 won't turn on and the first post was dated two and a half month ago. I tried my best to repair it but it didn't work. 

Reflecting on what Mark said about how limited the choices are for us users, I ended up with another GX7000 from the same vendor. I didn't know the "replacement" GX7000 arrives sans inks but I did receive two replacement ink cartridge from Sawgrass and I purchased two additional ink cartridge. The replacement cost of the GX7000 is slightly less than $1K, and this brings the "my GX7000 won't turn on" saga to a close, for now.

So, the cost of the three mugs I printed with the dead GX7000 is around $300 each.

If I am a commercial user, this would be unacceptable. If I am a hobbyist, this would also be unacceptable. Base on my experience, had I bought into how the various vendors promote the consumer grade dye sub printing as a money making venture at the trade shows, I would have been very very disappointed. . . . The sad thing is I see people getting into dye sub printing for the exact same reason on this forum all the time.

So, best of luck to all the GX7000 users, at least ones with functional GX7000s. . . .


----------



## ladyjn13

We have a GX 7000 purchased new in August 2010. We ran approximately 100~200 shirts through it using the Sawgrass SubliJet-R inks. Approximately 3 weeks ago in the middle of a run, it starting printing the image with black parallel lines on the whole page. Called Ricoh and they sent a reconditioned replacement, that had a major scratch on the LCD screen and would not print because the paper tray sensor was tweaked. We called Ricoh again and they sent out a brand new replacement this time. We'll be setting this up Saturday morning and hope the new unit works this time. We've been unable to do any sublimation business the entire time. We've lost at least one order because of this issue.

It seems like we need to purchase an extended warranty for this unit, once we get the new one up and running. Does Ricoh sell the extensed service contract or can we purchase this from Conde? I'm reading these threads and becoming concerned that this printer may not be any better then the Epson 1400 with bulk inks it replaced.


----------



## Riderz Ready

You may need to be careful with an extended warranty from Ricoh. In most cases using dye sub ink in a printer will void the manufacturers warranty. When we first started we were advise to just keep an extra set of manufacturers cartridges handy in case we needed a tech to come out. I am far from a saint but did not feel comfortable doing this. Considering from past post that the Ricoh seems to be a disposable printer and not able to be repaired I surely would consider it for the right price. I would also make sure there were gaurantees with the extended warranty that the 7000 would be replaced with like printer versus what seems to have happened in the past where GX 7000 were replaced with the small printer for months before the 7000 was available. Kind of makes the extended warranty useless if this happens.


----------



## freebird1963

*The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 states:*

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer''s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name.”


This means the OEM cannot, as a condition of the warranty, require the use of their cartridge. 

While using another brand of cartridge can not completely void your printer warranty, the printer maker does not have to repair damage that is caused by another brand of cartridge.
However, the remainder of the warranty still applies. Only damage that is specifically caused by use of another brand of cartridge is exempted.
******************************************************
So until its found out that the sawgrass ink carts are the cause of the damage Ricoh would still have to repair. And if the came back and said the carts were the cause of the damage I would imagine then all of the dead ricoh users using Sawgrass carts could go after them.
​


----------



## freebird1963

ladyjn13 said:


> It seems like we need to purchase an extended warranty for this unit, once we get the new one up and running. Does Ricoh sell the extensed service contract or can we purchase this from Conde? I'm reading these threads and becoming concerned that this printer may not be any better then the Epson 1400 with bulk inks it replaced.


When I talked to Ricoh they said they did not sell the extended warranties. And sawgrass told me the same thing that I would have to go thru my vendor, which was Conde.


----------



## Conde_David

We do offer the extended warranty.


----------



## Riderz Ready

freebird1963 said:


> When I talked to Ricoh they said they did not sell the extended warranties. And sawgrass told me the same thing that I would have to go thru my vendor, which was Conde.


This would be a little red flag if I was looking for a printer. The issue is, whether it is Ricoh or Epson, if a tech comes out and says that indeed it is the ink that is causing the issue it would be hard for a consumer to prove otherwise. Just like in politics - the silence is typically more damaging then the truth. You can only assume after all this time that Ricoh, Sawgrass and the distributors know exactly what is wrong. By releasing this information it makes someone accountable which seems everyone is trying to avoid. With so few players controlling our market these type of challenges will continue to surface unless we as consumers stand up for the same rights and choices every other apparel decorating market enjoys. Imagine embroidery shops only being able to use one brand of thread. Transfer shops being able to use only one brade of vinyl. Screen shops only being able to use one brand of ink, etc. Their prices would skyrocket and they would revolt.


----------



## cornpopps

At the ISS show in LB this past week I asked some Sub vendors about the Ricoh 7000. Some said they did not know the cause but I was able to get one vendor rep to offer that they thought it had to do with the cartridge which would make a little sense. It seems the issue with the 7000 is electrical, there were no clogging issues or head issues to speak of(I am not a tech so please bear with me). But common sense would say that it may possibly be the chip used inside the cartridge, the cartridge is modified compared to the stock carts that ship with the 7000. If you try to insert a stock cart it will not fit, so some mod was done with the frame where the cartridge slides into the printer. Maybe its possible the Chip on the SG cart is shorting some electrical part of the printer. This is all speculation again, but I just wanted to throw some of my thoughts out there. Also SG has asked for me to return my old carts and replaced them with new ones but they do not want me bad 7000 back. I just hope we get some answers soon from the vendors or SG I feel this is a great technology and its helped me grow my business quite a bit.


----------



## Chillisland

My Ricoh GX7000 (April 2010) stopped today.
after printing gray lines and half the design.
phone my vendor and they will replace it, seems to be a main board problem and can only repaired by ricoh.

luckily i still have warranty on it.


----------



## tommers207

Went to use my GX 7000 today and have run into the same problem listed here. First it printed gray lines across the paper then after a head cleaning it printed thick gray and blue lines across the page. During another head cleaning it shut off and now won't turn back on. Called Conde and was told we purchased it in October of 2009 so it's out of warranty. We purchased this machine primarily to print transfers for mugs and have probably only run about 200-250 sheets through it. Definately would have expected a lot more longevity out of this machine considering the price. Very disappointed. It appears that the vendor, the ink manufacturer and the printer manufacturer know there's a problem yet there is no solution for those of us who have already shelled out the money for this printing system. Probably not the best way to keep customers.


----------



## Conde_David

Please give me a call, I think I can help.


----------



## jiarby

come on david... what can you do for an out of warranty guy?


----------



## MahdMan

And to think, just today, I was on the phone with Conde and they were trying to sell me on the GX7000 like it was the best printer for my needs.

After reading all the issues everyone is having, I think I will just try and save more money to buy a better printer.


----------



## jdoug5170

MahdMan said:


> And to think, just today, I was on the phone with Conde and they were trying to sell me on the GX7000 like it was the best printer for my needs.
> 
> After reading all the issues everyone is having, I think I will just try and save more money to buy a better printer.



Just curious, just what is a "better" printer for the price?

Doug


----------



## MahdMan

jdoug5170 said:


> Just curious, just what is a "better" printer for the price?
> 
> Doug


 
Wish I knew... I'm new to all this so I'll just need to do more research and see what I can figure out and what info I can gather from people...


----------



## tntawards

I had this problem....I was lucky it happened 1 week before my year....But then had problems with the replacement process...BUT.......Dave at Conde stepped up and sent me a new one of course I immediatly paid for the extended......

I LOVE this printer....I NEVER have clogged lines! It preforms less maintance and the savings on INK has been the best part!

I would buy this and tell others to buy but make sure you pay for the EXTENDED warranty....the manner that we use these printers wether little or alot if your in business to make money and not spend money not buying the warranty is crazy if you as me.


----------



## ladyjn13

Just got some new information on the GX7000 from Sawgrass. It seems that me acting like a typical computer tech, turn off the printer when not in use, may have contributed to its early demise. Staci at Sawgrass said the printer needs to be left on full time, so it can perform self maintenance tests. These test apparantly keep the unit in perfet condition.

Now that we finally got the third replacement for the original first unit and the replacement inks from Sawgrass, I'm going to load it up with ink and walk away, leaving the printer turned on to do its thing. Oh BTW, guess I'm calling our Conde rep to buy the extended warranty too!


----------



## cornpopps

I dont think leaving it on all the time is what cures the problem. During my research I found out from the conde video that keeping the printer on full time saves ink. I maybe powered off once to move it to a new location and it died 3 months after purchase during a big job I was running.


----------



## Riderz Ready

ladyjn13 said:


> Just got some new information on the GX7000 from Sawgrass. It seems that me acting like a typical computer tech, turn off the printer when not in use, may have contributed to its early demise. Staci at Sawgrass said the printer needs to be left on full time, so it can perform self maintenance tests. These test apparantly keep the unit in perfet condition.
> 
> Now that we finally got the third replacement for the original first unit and the replacement inks from Sawgrass, I'm going to load it up with ink and walk away, leaving the printer turned on to do its thing. Oh BTW, guess I'm calling our Conde rep to buy the extended warranty too!


I also heard if you throw salt over your shoulder while printing will help it last longer as well. Excuse my French but has has anyone heard such BS when it comes to ANY other electronic product? Does the printer burn ink while it does "self maintenance tests"?

Follow the money - it virtually always leads to the truth.


----------



## Conde_David

The printer does use less ink if left turned on.
It bypasses some of the start up cleaning.

It is important to keep the firmware up to date.
Very important for the e3300n.


----------



## freebird1963

Some one got a contact over at wiki leaks. ? we need answers asap !


----------



## freebird1963

On-line Jerseys said:


> Follow the money - it virtually always leads to the truth.


I find it more often leads to a mistress, drugs or off shore bank account.


----------



## toomeycustoms

I just got my replacement Ricoh from Sawgrass. It is for sale and will be posting in the Classifieds shortly.


----------



## onur1980

OK this is for David from conde. Mr. David after i spoke to you around january 2010, bought my 1st gx 7000 with 2 year warranty. I have replaced the printer 3 times with the same issue. Last time it took sawgrass 2.5 months to send me a replacement printer so i ordered another gx 7000 from CONDE. However, this time i was told that , i couldnt buy an additional warranty. NOW im reading these posts and i see you telling people that "conde actually sells the additional warranty" im greatly disappointed at the moment. Ill try to contact you ASAP with a hope that this is just a misunderstanding.
Nicholas
bigeztiles


----------



## Conde_David

We are selling the extended warranty.
Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## ladyjn13

I called our Conde sales rep and was told the warranty is no longer available for purchase. What gives?


----------



## Conde_David

Call again.
The extended warranty is available.
Sorry for the issue.


----------



## Conde_David

Call again.
The extended warranty is available.
Sorry for the issue.


----------



## Chillisland

Hello, last time i said, my vendor will replace the Ricoh.
ok, that's nice, but now i want get any warranty any more on the printer...as i'm to far from the original vendor country.

now my question is, no one ever open up the ricoh and try to fixed it by taking out the main board and send it to a electronics engineer?

regards


----------



## Riderz Ready

Chillisland said:


> Hello, last time i said, my vendor will replace the Ricoh.
> ok, that's nice, but now i want get any warranty any more on the printer...as i'm to far from the original vendor country.
> 
> now my question is, no one ever open up the ricoh and try to fixed it by taking out the main board and send it to a electronics engineer?
> 
> regards


I am guessing, and we can only guess because this is all so hush hush, that there is an issue that maybe has nothing to do with Ricoh thus if you found someone that actually could work on a board to the chip level the odds of it frying again are probably the same as when you got it. Unless the issue is resolved that is causing the boards to fry they fixing the board is throwing good money after bad.


----------



## ypooj

Many thanks for everyones help. I have sorted my problem & have another GX7000. After weighing up all the pros & cons of the different printers (& my situation of having cartridges etc, as well as the time I have spent learning this printer and becoming confident with it) I realised that it was still my best option. Now I am back happily printing again & hoping this one lasts a lot longer. I really love this printer.


----------



## Timkelco

When I posted this http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t134734.html

The silence was deafening, basically sucks to be you my printer is working great. I really tried to give everyone the heads up that they needed the extended warranty. I don't care what the consensus says about pumping $$$ in ink into the trash to keep the printer alive when you are not using it. Do the math it will cost you more in ink than a new printer every year guarantee.THERE NEEDS TO BE REPLACEMENT PARTS!!!! There is no way a $900 printer is a throw away printer. I toss $50 printers all the time but when the ink kills the printer because it is dirty garbage ink there should be a way to repair it. When we are paying $7000 per gallon for ink and my OEM Roland ink runs $970 per gallon there is something wrong. My printers are 3-6 years old and it is minor maintenance and SERVICEABLE parts.

Our Epson 4880 is still going strong and it was pushed to the side when the Ricoh came in. Good thing we kept it. There has to be a solution to Sawgrass, do they have the only 100 year patent in existence?? I thought it was about to run out last year. There needs to be other options. The Ricoh was a great printer, I just wish the garbage ink did not kill it.

When I have time I tearing this thing apart, I am convinced the ink has clogged something. I wonder if these printers have dampers like the real printers?

They think I just went away with my tail between my legs when they told me I was out of warranty and it would be another $900 for a printer, there has to be a way to prove the ink is destroying the printer and they know it and do not care.

I think it is time to file a small claims lawsuit in Charleston County South Carolina now there is more people and documentation of a serious problem. Road trip!


----------



## Conde_David

Do you have a Ricoh that has failed?

I expect very few failures in the future.
For those that have failed printers, I will
do my best to help them.


----------



## Timkelco

Conde_David said:


> Do you have a Ricoh that has failed?
> 
> I expect very few failures in the future.
> For those that have failed printers, I will
> do my best to help them.


I do not have a problem with Conde, you can only do so much for an out of warranty printer.


----------



## freebird1963

Timkelco said:


> I do not have a problem with Conde, you can only do so much for an out of warranty printer.


To a point. And that point is that these printers did NOT fail due to misuse or abuse or any end user fault but to poor engineering on Sawgrasses part. If it was a car or appliance there be a recall. And there should be one. They should replace those that failed and those that are prone to it under the old technology way. These aren't 49.00 throw away printers. 

Is sawgrass gonna lower the cost of ink cuz we are now told to print every day just to keep the printer from dying ?? HOw about wasted paper too. ?? Its BS. Its irresponsible and criminal I think.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Timkelow - the patents are running out story is the same year after year but as you know they never run out. Without the patents Sawgrass would take a huge hit. There are some fairly large companies that also have their lively hood at stake with Sawgrass patents as well. I am far from a consumer advocate but it is just wrong that a company exist solely because of their forced monoply and not the quality of their product or customer service. 

You have to figure as everyone still remains hush hush, that there are only two options to the issue. It is either the ink or the cartrdige. You know Ricoh did not change the printer in the slighest to accommodate Sawgrass. The good news it appears people are wising up to the old blame the printer game. It has worked on Epson's for years.


----------



## Timkelco

It is not the printer, it's the ink causing the damage. 

Sawgrass will sue a company in a blink if they think they are taking money from their pockets, it is time for the tables to be turned. Their ink destroyed my $900 printer and I have more in paper, ink and accessories that are now useless.

The Charleston County Magistrate has all the forms online to print, I just need a South Carolina Notary. SC is not that far from a job I will be on in April.


----------



## freebird1963

count me in. Maybe a petition to sawgrass from EVERYONE and if they send back some BS answer or side stepping blame it on the other guy letter than off to court.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Need to find a young lawyer who has time to file a class action lawsuit. This is such a small market that I would bet a established attorney would not touch it. Not enough money to be gained from it. Realize an attorney would not only go after Sawgrass but also evey single distributor that sold the product. How many Ricohs were sold after there was a known problem?


----------



## Timkelco

On-line Jerseys said:


> Need to find a young lawyer who has time to file a class action lawsuit. This is such a small market that I would bet a established attorney would not touch it. Not enough money to be gained from it. Realize an attorney would not only go after Sawgrass but also evey single distributor that sold the product. How many Ricohs were sold after there was a known problem?


My beef is with Sawgrass not Ricoh or Conde, I will start with small claims and try and get some of my money back. If they try to overpower me like they do all the other small companies that have tried to put out Sublimation ink, then I have a few Attorneys I know that would take a crack at them for little to no cash. 

With all the Epsons and Ricoh printers their ink has trashed I am sure the list would be long of the people that would jump on board with a Civil Case.

It will not be long till Ricoh will get tired of being blamed for the failures and they will file the same suit Epson did to keep people from making ink cartriges that are just like their and using them in the the printers. Granted Epson's suit was about the losing $7000 a gallon ink profits....


----------



## Riderz Ready

My stepfather is a retired attorney and the reason you see lawsuits that name everyone under the sun is two fold. You have to go wherever the money is regardless of your personal feelings. Although we may want to sue for personal gratification an attorney only wants the money regardless. Second when you have multiple parties named in the suit and things get sticky they tend to turn on one another to avoid monetary damage. In many cases this is how the truth comes out. In this case you have Sawgrass who has a huge influence over the entire market ranging from the consumer to all their key distributors not just Conde. As an example - is there any top tiered Sawgrass distibutor that sells any ink other than Sawgrass? Are they, by contract, even allowed to sell another brand? This puts them as it does us in the same position. The liability in this case is not so much selling a product that damaged a printer. The real kicker is continuing to sell the product after the issue is known. This is where monetary damages could really climb. You prove in a court of law that parties knownly sold a defective product you hit the homerun.


----------



## brembrolo

I have a question for David.

While your willingness to help out is commendable, you continue to make statements such as "I expect to see less of this in the future". Please tell us why exactly you feel this way.

I purchased a GX7000 at the Orlando ISS this past weekend and now I am very concerned about my purchase. Am I going to get a defective product? 

IF a change has been made, why would you not want to tell someone to ease their minds concerning their purchase? If you're worried about giving away patent secrets, then why not just say yes or no there has been a fix?

Juan


----------



## Conde_David

The change was made by Sawgrass.
You are fine.
I do recommend our extended warranty.

I also recommend our icc profile instead
of the power driver. Much better color.


----------



## freebird1963

I went over to FEPSA and searched out Sawgrass.
When I walked up and the first guy approached me and I said I wanted to know why the GX-7000's were dying he tried to act surprised about it and said Well lets go find out. He hadn't heard of any such problem. Yea Right. Bad acting job. He took me to talk to a short stock young guy.I don't recall the name of the guy. First guy was tall and skinny and don't recall his name either. Wish I could.

He basically beat around the bush and blew some smoke up my butt about the what and why of the problem. 

Points he made:
That there was no certain lot to the printers that were dying.
There was no certain ink lot that was involved.
The printers they got back were normally in the low print count. Not used often/daily.
He said to print something everyday and to keep the printer on don't turn it off.
They and Ricoh worked together to find the cause but he wouldn't or didn't say what it was other than electrical failure. He also mention Conde being involved in helping with the issue.

I asked when ink prices were gonna drop. He went on a spiell about
how you got more print coverage then the epsons and cost was good etc. Again more smoke and all. 
Until the patent runs out there won't be no price drops when others can get in the game and hopefully someone will.

Most of what we already knew from postings on the board. and I don't think we will find out either from anyone unless someone knows someone on the inside of one of the companies willing to spill the beans.


----------



## Riderz Ready

If it wasn't so sad it would almost be comical. I can hear the feet shuffling all the way here. Makes our political representatives seem straightforward. David promised in an earlier post he would blog about the issue so maybe the truth will come out but unless someone sues them all the odds of that are close to zero. 

Mark did uncover some interesting "facts" if you are taking the Sawgrass rep at his words. Again we can all rest assured Ricoh has no part in this. The attempt to link Ricoh's name in the discussion is a simple way to deflect part of the blame as they have consistently done with Epson. They mentioned no certain ink lots were identified as the issue. That leads one to believe they are using the same formula as they always have yet they have resolved the issue. Since we have eliminated Ricoh as the issue and Sawgrass is claiming it is not the ink that leads one to connect the dots and believe there was an issue with the cartridges. 

It is truly sad that no one has the decency to just be honest. If we ran our business this way we would be long gone as most businesses would. The symptom of a very small industry controlled by a very few number of players all circling their wagons.


----------



## Timkelco

Ricoh has no part in this no matter what Sawgrass says. They want to be as far from this problem as they can. They cannot prevent Sawgrass from making ink for their printer. When I spoke to Ricoh in the beginning they indicated to me that even if my printer was within the 1 year warranty from Ricoh, they WOULD NOT COVER IT. The warranty would need to be fulfilled by Sawgrass, that is the only agreement they have. Ricoh knew my printer was used for Sublimation based on the serial number. My guess is Sawgrass (or Conde not sure) buy whole lots of the printers at a discount and Ricoh keeps track of the numbers.

I spent on night tearing this printer down looking for the problem. I finally managed to get the printer to power up through a process of elimination. The problem is in the print head electronics. When I pulled the power from the head the printer powers up and gives the Code 99. Unfortunately the print head would be near impossible to remove. It is not a serviceable head like larger printers. The ink in the heads after 5 months of just sitting the ink was still fluid (not a gel) I was able to pass ink through the heads into the waste tank, so no clog. My guess is the Ink when it sits gets caustic and must eat away at the head in a way the makes the piezoelectric material short out and kills the printer.

The answer is not to pour $7000 a gallon ink and paper down the drain. The test prints uses way more ink than needed. My Roland printer turn on every 12 hrs and draws a minuscule amount of ink through the heads. The ink need to be cheaper if we need to throw it away to keep the ink from trashing the heads.


----------



## tntawards

When I spoke to Ricoh in the beginning they indicated to me that even if my printer was within the 1 year warranty from Ricoh, they WOULD NOT COVER IT. The warranty would need to be fulfilled by Sawgrass


the first 7000 that I had replaced was replaced by ricoh reconditioned my orginal printer printed fine and then the next print had lines thru it and then locked up the reconditioned printer ricoh sent had an issue with air getting in the line and used 2 carts of ink because it performed a maintenance before and after every print.... code 99 is the error code that came up.... I was 1 week from the end of my original warranty and purchased the extended before I got the printer from rioch.....the second printer was again replaced by rioch but the shipping time was the kicker so I called conde and they had one ready to ship that day...so I sent conde the replacement and have had no problems since knock on wood... so I had a printer replaced by ricoh I did have the first rep from ricoh tell me these printers were not made for sub... But I told him I did not believe this to be true and spoke to another rep and everything was replaced with little hassle other than the shipping time constraints..... I did call Dave at conde and tell him what the first ricoh rep said and passed said reps name to him.... this like anything else is keeping tempers in check while your speaking to them.... heck they frustrated the heck out of me when trying to trouble shoot the ink issue with the first replacement printer the rep acted as if I didn't know what I was talking about or doing but I knew I was correct and asked for another rep and kept my cool. I would have talked to 50 people if that's what it took to get my printer replaced without spending another dime on a printer.... we are the ones who use them everyday in many different conditions so I believe both ricoh and sawgrass need to listen to us and give answers to the problems that are or have occured with the printers and inks..... one more thing I use my printer everyday other than Sunday.... so these issues can happen with a printer used daily so I really don't believe it's only about ink setting in the lines or printhead.


----------



## mn shutterbug

I had 2 Ricohs replaced under warranty. They were the 5050 and Ricoh knew I was using Sawgrass ink in them. I was getting clogged heads.


----------



## Tracy9543

This is a know issue with the Ricoh GX7000. It is the ink causing the power board to fail. My printer died 3 months after I purchased it. I spoke with someone from Sawgrass @ a trade show last week and was told the issue has been resolved. Weather this is true or not I really don't know.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Tracy9543 said:


> This is a know issue with the Ricoh GX7000. It is the ink causing the power board to fail. My printer died 3 months after I purchased it. I spoke with someone from Sawgrass @ a trade show last week and was told the issue has been resolved. Weather this is true or not I really don't know.


Find it amazing that a company and their distributors claim the problem is resolved but care so little for their customers that they refuse to say what the problem "was" and what was done to correct it. If there is nothing to hide why not be honest?


----------



## mgparrish

On-line Jerseys said:


> Timkelow - the patents are running out story is the same year after year but as you know they never run out. Without the patents Sawgrass would take a huge hit. There are some fairly large companies that also have their lively hood at stake with Sawgrass patents as well. I am far from a consumer advocate but it is just wrong that a company exist solely because of their forced monoply and not the quality of their product or customer service.
> 
> You have to figure as everyone still remains hush hush, that there are only two options to the issue. It is either the ink or the cartrdige. You know Ricoh did not change the printer in the slighest to accommodate Sawgrass. The good news it appears people are wising up to the old blame the printer game. It has worked on Epson's for years.


Mark,

I have to take exception to your comments about the patent expiration.

See my post at 

DSSI

Even when the patent runs out if you buy a Ricoh with sublimation cartridges you are still locked in to SG inks. You are still at the mercy of the Ink Baron. 

There is no aftermarket existing for 3rd party regular inks and 3rd party refillable carts for Ricoh's, and there won't be in the future. 

Most likely SG has a relationship with Ricoh where they can get carts and chips from Ricoh, and Ricoh would be keeping tight control on those to keep cheap pigments inks from 3rd parties off their printer. The total sales volumes of Ricoh ink jets do not justify aftermarket 3rd parties coming in and investing tooling ($$mega bucks) for carts and chips to offer cheap replacement carts for regular printing.

The Epson aftermarket for 3rd party carts, CIS and chips is thriving. Once the patent expires those 3rd party carts, CIS and chips of course will be able to work for non SG sublimation inks.

I know some people like the benefits of the Ricoh vs. Epson (unless your Ricoh died) but reality is reality.

Michael


----------



## DAGuide

Michael,

You are correct that... there are new patents regarding the gel sublimation inks. I believe they are listed on the side of the cartridges or they used to be. However, if you know the right people (source the Asian markets)... you can get aftermarket Ricoh cartridges and chips. The reason there are not really aftermarket inks (besides Sawgrass) is the number of these GelSprint printers is a fraction of what Epson has the market. The Ricoh printers don't print the same quality as the Epson printers for photographic printing... which makes the dye sub market look very small. The other ink manufacturers don't have the same issues / needs that Sawgrass has with dye sub ink that forced Sawgrass to look at another option beside Epson printers.

Just my experiences,

Mark


----------



## Riderz Ready

Being that the they have a monoply and the industry is tiny with very few key players we may never know all the answers. You can start with, why did people buy the Ricoh in the first place as it is an expensive alternative to an Epson. I would guess for most people it came down to buying into the theory that Epson printers clog easily. Sawgrass has done a great job in deflecting the real issue of poor quality ink and putting on the backs of a printer. Can't say this enough - the printer is a delivery system nothing more. You put quality ink in the printer it will not clog - put garbage in the printer and it will clog. 

Simply put if there was no monoply there would be no reason to spend $1,000 on a Ricoh. People would be able to purchase a cost effective Epson, use quality ink that is now available to wide format shops and never deal with a clog again. 

I do not know patent laws but I do not see Sawgrass siting by and letting them expire. They no longer exist as the company they are if there is an open market. What would they tell their existing customers? Sorry we screwed you this past decade?


----------



## mgparrish

DAGuide said:


> Michael,
> 
> You are correct that... there are new patents regarding the gel sublimation inks. I believe they are listed on the side of the cartridges or they used to be. However, if you know the right people (source the Asian markets)... you can get aftermarket Ricoh cartridges and chips. The reason there are not really aftermarket inks (besides Sawgrass) is the number of these GelSprint printers is a fraction of what Epson has the market. The Ricoh printers don't print the same quality as the Epson printers for photographic printing... which makes the dye sub market look very small. The other ink manufacturers don't have the same issues / needs that Sawgrass has with dye sub ink that forced Sawgrass to look at another option beside Epson printers.
> 
> Just my experiences,
> 
> Mark


Yes, you can get aftermarket stuff for gelsprinters in Asia but usually you need to buy large qntys. of product (Alibaba), there is a regular 3rd party market in Asia for the printers, and of course you are going to pay high freight costs. Not practical. The US market for Ricoh gelsprinters are mainly for sublimators. Very hard to find one in stock from someone other than a SG dealer. 

In Asia the Gelsprinter has more market than in the US. Ricoh's market concept was to replace color desktop lasers in a business environment and is more successful in Asia and Europe as office space can be very confining for a desktop laser printer. It has trouble competing in the US with Epson, HP, Canon, and Kodak and will never become a mainstream product here at the price points the Gelsprinters sell at.

I haven't researched any new patents that SG has specific and unique to gelsprinter sublimation, however, those patent claims would be valid way out in the future. 

I had one of the earliest gelsprinters to test for regular pigment inks so that printer was introduced around 2006, and if memory serves me right SG introduced Ricoh sublimation around 2007, so depending on if/when SG filed for a patent on Gelsprinters it would be 20 yrs out from the filing date before the expiration. 

Anything unique to Ricoh sublimation it would not cover non-Ricoh sublimation as the SG patent that SG uses for Epsons will expire Sept. 1, 2014. So if SG does have a patent unique for Ricoh sublimation then besides the lack of aftermarket for Ricoh **in the US** they would have a Ricoh monopoly due to patent. 

Either way you are locked into SG with a Ricoh, either through lack of competing sub inks and ink delivery systems and/or lack of gelsprinter sublimation ink competition due to patent monopoly.

SG cannot extend it's "907" patent by doing something unique on Gelsprinters, so any new art would have to be narrowed to Gelsprinter only.

Michael


----------



## mgparrish

On-line Jerseys said:


> I do not know patent laws but I do not see Sawgrass siting by and letting them expire. They no longer exist as the company they are if there is an open market. What would they tell their existing customers? Sorry we screwed you this past decade?


Patents are not renewable and the only patents that can be "extended" in time duration are Pharma patents and that is only because the FDA approval process takes a long time so in those case patents can be extended somewhat, but those still come out to about the same duration as "utility" patents.

It's not a case of SG fighting to not let the patent expire. They have to let the patent expire, it's the law.

Patents


Michael


----------



## ladyjn13

Well, my business partner purchased a 2nd Ricoh 7000 just after after first one died under warranty, thinking this would help prevent down time. Yeah well this one died after printing 13 pages in 2 weeks time. Excellent!!!

Now Stacy at Sawgrass, quote a lead tech, states that they know nothing about the problems and if there are 7 pages of discussion about this on this forum, then it's just from all the complainers. Furthermore, Sawgrass will only replace 2 of the inks as only 50% of it was wasted. So it's going to cost us money because they're ink is destroying printers.

I'm so glad we switched from Sawgrass Airtanium inks that clog the printer and waste ink to Sawgrass inks that destroy the printer. What a choice!


----------



## Riderz Ready

Oh my gosh - startling news. There are problems with Sawgrass inks? I wonder if they teach all their employees and partners to lie or just brainwash them?

The question I have never figured out is what is preventing the "black market" for high quality dye sub inks being sold to the desktop market? Meaning what legal issues are there that prevents someone from buying high quality ink and reselling it to the desktop market? The numbers are staggering - high quality dye sub ink available to the wide format market goes from $120-$160 per liter. Do the math and one can see there is huge margins and that is an under statement. Someone with the expertise to create profiles for Epson desktop printers and resell quality ink could make a fortune. Can Sawgrass sue someone for buying legitimate dye sub ink at retail and reselling with their profiles? It is just strange this is not wide spread considering the circumstances of this market.


----------



## cshark

Well, at least now I know I am not alone with a printer that won't turn on.


----------



## obzelite

ours just died as well. two brand new inks cartridges installed and 5 mins later it was dead. doesn't say much about the problem with the cartridges being fixed.

i'm pretty pissed, i have a huge amount of work and now no subprinter, two new cartridges in the printer and two new in packs.
it would seem so many companies these days are just bloody scammers and borderline criminal in their conduct.

Has anyone got an alternative to sawgrass inks?


----------



## Conde_David

Have you called the folks you got the printer
from? If they are unable to help, please contact
me.


----------



## obzelite

Conde_David said:


> Have you called the folks you got the printer
> from? If they are unable to help, please contact
> me.


i'm down here in aust, can you still help?

out of warranty as well.


----------



## obzelite

had to bite the bullet and buy a new one. 852 bucks which is not good, but at least it has a new warranty and i'm getting it direct from ricoh, so with a few orders i can make that back and just cross my fingers these carts don't kill it straight away.


----------



## Conde_David

Buy the extended warranty.
Your price seems high, we discount a replacement
printer. Also, you get two free carts.


----------



## weprintdotorg

Wow. My printer (GX 7000) just died today and the same way as everyone else. It's funny how I was never offered an extended warranty, nor was it ever brought up until today. Now I guess I am SOL. I purchased my printer from Conde in November of 2009 and called up tech support and it is funny how they knew exactly what the problem was before even going into detail. That lets me know that this a re-occurring problem that they have dealt with many times in the past. I was also told that it was the chipset in the Subli-jet cartridges that caused the problem. I was given a number to call Sawgrass and basically they told me that they would give me two new cartridges if I wanted to buy a new printer. Are you f***ing kidding me? What kind of support is that? What about the $1400 I dropped on the printer with the four cartridges that came with it?

I was told if the printer isn't used all the time, this happens. Well, I printed 18 shirts this past friday with no problems and two shirts today. I noticed the last print that came out looked a little purple so I decided to do a head cleaning and started to print another image and in the midst of printing the machine just turns off with a message on my Mac saying that there was a problem with the power cord. I unplugged the printer and plugged it back in with no success and even switched outlets and that didn't help either. 

I don't know what I am going to do now. Conde tells me it's Sawgrass' problem and Sawgrass tells me it's Conde's problem. It's a no win situation with neither company offering any kind of support or discount. My printer is barely 1.5 years old and has never shown signs of any problems except for today. I see that I am not the only one with this problem and something needs to be done about it. We need to stand up to these companies and have something done about this.


----------



## Conde_David

Please call me, I will help.


----------



## dsaria

Well, add us to the list of people whose GX7000 printer died when trying to perform a head cleaning procedure. Since it's Saturday (offices are closed), I have emailed by Conde Support and David Gross about the problem.

Months ago, David said in these forums that we should see a reduction in this problem. So when exactly are we supposed to see that reduction? Apparently it's still happening.

We bought our printer directly from Conde, so I am going to hold David to his word about being able to help. I just wish Conde had been proactive with it's customers who had purchased this printer from them, advising their customers about this KNOWN PROBLEM, and giving them the opportunity to purchase the extended warranty BEFORE the original warranty expired. Our printer is a few days over 13 months old.... one month past the warranty expiration date. If I had only known about this thread or this potential problem 6 months ago when this conversation started, I would have purchased an extended warranty....


----------



## Conde_David

We will help.

We sent emails out recommending our Conde's extend
warranties. I just emailed you with a few questions.


----------



## LB

Riderz Ready said:


> I also heard if you throw salt over your shoulder while printing will help it last longer as well. Excuse my French but has has anyone heard such BS when it comes to ANY other electronic product? Does the printer burn ink while it does "self maintenance tests"?
> 
> Follow the money - it virtually always leads to the truth.


I'm gonna try that throwing salt over my shoulder trick..I've read that works too when Corel starts up.


----------



## Conde_David

Failures now have slowed to a trickle.
Mostly now from folks that have not used
their printer in a long time.

I will continue to help.
Where's Tonto?


----------



## obzelite

are you happy to sell ink to us down here is aust, i know we have people down here who sell it, but i'm worried stock they have it old and the carts will have the printer killing chipsets in them.


----------



## Conde_David

If needed, we would.
I would prefer that you would buy locally.


----------



## obzelite

yeah, i prefer local as well, but since it was a fresh batch of carts that killed the printer on installation i dont have allot of faith they have non killers in stock.
i'm making a presumption that sawgrass have fixed the issue and it was a cart issue.
although it pisses me off that they didnt do some kind of recall so i didnt have to have this problem once it was identified.

i'm wondering if its possible to pull the chips off the original set of carts i got with the printer and stick them on any new sawgrass carts i get from dealers here.


----------



## ladyjn13

I really don't think Sawgrass has fixed anything! We had another printer die after 4 months of continued use. First it spewed Cyan ink all over the place, a known and supposedly repaired Sawgrass issue. NOT! Then it just died.

I don't think anythings fixed. Ricoh won't replace the printer under warranty because it was the Sawgrass ink that leaked all over the place. Sawgrass did make good and replace everything after ruining my work table with a massive puddle of Cyan ink and killing the printer with their crappy cartridges.

Anyone want to purchase my brand new, in the box replacement and 4 inks?

I'm switching over to Cobra Hi-Temp inks and a different printer.


----------



## weprintdotorg

I just want to thank David Gross from Conde for saving me $200 on my New Ricoh GX7000 and the advice he gave me for Sawgrass; got three new ink cartridges for free! Thank you for helping me out even though my original warranty had expired. 

I have bought from Conde for over 10 years now and they still go the extra mile to please every customer, new and old.


----------



## Riderz Ready

obzelite said:


> although it pisses me off that they didnt do some kind of recall so i didnt have to have this problem once it was identified.


This would happen in 95% of any industry out there but when you have Sawgrass and their few master distributors controlling the entire market they seemingly can do what ever they please. The unbelievable part of it is the Sawgrass Cartel sell printers that due to Sawgrass chips and/or ink cause significant failure rates. Instead of informing the consumer of the problem and recalling the faulty product they shuffle their feet in the attempt to cloudy the picture. Their answer? Since the product we sold you is defective we suggest you spend more money with us and buy an extended warranty. Unreal - -


----------



## weprintdotorg

Riderz Ready said:


> This would happen in 95% of any industry out there but when you have Sawgrass and their few master distributors controlling the entire market they seemingly can do what ever they please. The unbelievable part of it is the Sawgrass Cartel sell printers that due to Sawgrass chips and/or ink cause significant failure rates. Instead of informing the consumer of the problem and recalling the faulty product they shuffle their feet in the attempt to cloudy the picture. Their answer? Since the product we sold you is defective we suggest you spend more money with us and buy an extended warranty. Unreal - -


Although I am happy that I got the printer taken care of and a free set of inks, you are absolutely right on about the extended warranty part. 
The printer should have been recalled or at the very least, the ink cartridges, but we all know that would never happen.


----------



## Conde_David

I generally buy extended warranties on any
equipment I rely on. For instance my iPhone and
truck. The ext warranties for ricoh's are
By Conde. So when a printer fails we replace
it and it comes out of our pocket. 

I think We are the only folks that offer an ext warranty.


----------



## weprintdotorg

Believe me, I would have bought the extended warranty, but it was not available at the time of purchase. I bought the printer when it first became available for sublimation. Nothing was ever brought up about it.


----------



## Conde_David

Contact your rep, you may still be able to
get it.


----------



## Riderz Ready

weprintdotorg said:


> Although I am happy that I got the printer taken care of and a free set of inks, you are absolutely right on about the extended warranty part.
> The printer should have been recalled or at the very least, the ink cartridges, but we all know that would never happen.


Follow the money! NO ONE loses money selling extended warranties. In many cases they are almost fraudulent. Cell phones, especially iPhones and Droids are the worse. There is virtually nothing covered by warranty on these phones. Screen is not covered and every phone has sensors built into them to register moisture and blunt force. What this means is if a trigger in the phone is tripped the warranty is voided. You can drop your phone on your desk and have the internal sensor tripped. You can leave your phone 20 feet from a shower and have the moisture sensor tripped. discovered this the hard way unfortunately.


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> Follow the money! *NO ONE loses money selling extended warranties. *In many cases they are almost fraudulent. Cell phones, especially iPhones and Droids are the worse. There is virtually nothing covered by warranty on these phones. Screen is not covered and every phone has sensors built into them to register moisture and blunt force. What this means is if a trigger in the phone is tripped the warranty is voided. You can drop your phone on your desk and have the internal sensor tripped. You can leave your phone 20 feet from a shower and have the moisture sensor tripped. discovered this the hard way unfortunately.


Here is why ...

The Bathtub Curve and Product Failure Behavior (Part 1 of 2)


----------



## Progrfx Dave

Mine Just went out today. Well maybe last Saturday. Was resetting up this printer in my shop and my coumputer usb ports all crashed. Well the computer went out. went to set up the printer today and it would not power up. Didn't buy it from Conde though wish i had still a little new to this. Looked up my invoice on it and i got it in 5/2010 calling the vendor tommorrow to see if they will help. Now just before it went out i was doing a head cleaning because i had streks in the printing. Had that problen before with it talked to my distrubuter and they didn't know what it was but it didn't show in the mugs or shirts. Now this was a second printer I HAD 2 GX7000 this one was the leas used. Anyway could this have also taken out my computer it did start with the USB's that this printer was hooked into then moved to all of them including the PS2 mouse and last keyboard ports got all the info off of it before it all when out. Has any one heard of it taking a computer out with it?

Dave
www.promotablegraphics.com


----------



## Conde_David

I have not heard of a USB failure related to
the printer(except with a power surge or brown out). 

The printer will not power on?

So are all your USB ports on the
computer not working?


----------



## weprintdotorg

Progrfx Dave said:


> Now just before it went out i was doing a head cleaning because i had streks in the printing.


My Gx went out the same way, minus all the usb stuff. I was doing a head cleaning and the machine powered itself off. Never came back on after that.


----------



## Cutting_Edge

Count me in with a dead GX7000....no power......

If there have been so many going dead on ppl....why aren't there recalls on whatever is causing all of this to happen....??????......If it is the ink cartridges......RECALL THEM.......if it is the printer...RECALL THEM.....

My main ? for David from Conde.....Why are you selling these if there are so many problems w/ them? All you are doing is getting ppl ticked at your company for selling crap products.

I can get my sublimation transfers sent to me, so I am going to trash the printer and call it an expensive lesson learned.....not going to buy another and make room for other things here in my shop.

Margaret


----------



## Conde_David

New installations will not have this issue.
Sawgrass did address the issue.

Let me know if you need help with your
printer.


----------



## Cutting_Edge

Received your email and have responded....

Thanks


----------



## Riderz Ready

Cutting_Edge said:


> Count me in with a dead GX7000....no power......
> 
> If there have been so many going dead on ppl....why aren't there recalls on whatever is causing all of this to happen....??????......If it is the ink cartridges......RECALL THEM.......if it is the printer...RECALL THEM.....
> 
> My main ? for David from Conde.....Why are you selling these if there are so many problems w/ them? All you are doing is getting ppl ticked at your company for selling crap products.
> 
> I can get my sublimation transfers sent to me, so I am going to trash the printer and call it an expensive lesson learned.....not going to buy another and make room for other things here in my shop.
> 
> Margaret


Is it not amazing that Sawgrasss and their distributors still refuse to be honest and simply say what is causing the issues? Why does Sawgrass and their cartel hold back consumer information that may prevent printers such as yours from dying? We know Ricoh is not changing their printer so what has Sawgrass done to fix the issue? Can this fix be applied to current printers. Why is the issue only really discussed with owners after the fact? When companies can not simply be honest with their customers it puts a real cloud over their head but unfortunately for desktop users you have no real choices and Sawgrass knows it. Sawgrass and their cartel distributors are like politicians who think we are either too stupid or will just forget about the issues in time. In the vast majority of cases like this when we ask "why" you can be assured it comes down to money. It is one of the few things that prevent the truth to be told.

The classic solution is to make sure you spend even more money on your new printer and buy the extended warranty.


----------



## curtnrod19

So has anyone followed through with a lawsuite agaisnt sawgrass? If so please send me the details. I am also going to file a small claims agaisnt them while looking for a lawyer to file a bigger claim. Please PM me your contact info if you would like to be involded since sawgrass will not replace my second printer. Hope to hear from all of you!

Curtis Beard


----------



## ladyjn13

Conde_David said:


> New installations will not have this issue.
> Sawgrass did address the issue.
> 
> Let me know if you need help with your
> printer.


New installations as of when? Our installation of a new printer and inks in February blew up and died. David, this is just more baloney and the same old line from a company selling Sawgrass crap. We've had 3 just up an die since our first purchase in August 2010.

It's time to pursue another solution. Anyone want a GX7000 cheap?


----------



## Conde_David

Did you load new ink?

I will look up the date Sawgrass
announced that the issue was fixed.


----------



## LB

Conde_David said:


> Did you load new ink?
> 
> I will look up the date Sawgrass
> announced that the issue was fixed.


Don't have a 7000, have a 3300 I bought from you. Just curious, why does the ink cause a printer not to power up? I don't see this happening with the 3300's, why?


----------



## Conde_David

Most likely you are using newer carts.

In short, Sawgrass with Ricoh's help, identified
the cause of the printhead/main board failure.

Sawgrass then released new carts to prevent
this issue from happening.

Not every failure is related to this issue.

Putting the same inks from a failed printer
Into a new printer, could cause the new printer
to fail.

I do not know a good way to determine an old
cart from a new cart. 

If my printer failed, I would use new ink.

Sawgrass will provide two free carts.

Most of the failures involve printers that
are not used often. I recommend doing a
test page everyday or every other day.


----------



## freebird1963

Conde_David said:


> Most likely you are using newer carts.
> 
> In short, Sawgrass with Ricoh's help, identified
> the cause of the printhead/main board failure.
> 
> Sawgrass then released new carts to prevent
> this issue from happening.
> 
> Not every failure is related to this issue.
> 
> Putting the same inks from a failed printer
> Into a new printer, could cause the new printer
> to fail.
> 
> I do not know a good way to determine an old
> cart from a new cart.
> 
> If my printer failed, I would use new ink.
> 
> Sawgrass will provide two free carts.
> 
> Most of the failures involve printers that
> are not used often. I recommend doing a
> test page everyday or every other day.


So were the old carts removed from the supply chain or are they still out there waiting to be put into unsuspecting owners printers ?
Is Conde only selling the new carts ? If so what date did that happen ? I have some empty carts from a year + sitting here and can compare lot numbers or serial numbers or whatever to see if there is a difference there or take pics of the printheads on the carts to see if the design is different.

Thanks
Mark


----------



## Conde_David

When I received the bulletin from Sawgrass,
we provided SG our inventory information.

They indicated that our invetory was up to
date.

I will get the date of the bulletin.


----------



## mgparrish

freebird1963 said:


> So were the old carts removed from the supply chain or are they still out there waiting to be put into unsuspecting owners printers ?
> Is Conde only selling the new carts ? If so what date did that happen ? I have some empty carts from a year + sitting here and can compare lot numbers or serial numbers or whatever to see if there is a difference there or take pics of the printheads on the carts to see if the design is different.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark


SG should have a way to trace the and identify the old vs. new carts. Perhaps they didn't share that info with Conde and other the vendors though. 

Once the "cutover" occurred SG should have purged the old inventory they had in stock, at least that is what a reputable company would have done. At some point once the new carts were in SG's hands it would have been easy to keep those seperate from the old ones.

You mention the printhead on the cart, the printhead on this printer is not on the cart since the ink delivery lines are long (like a larger format Epson) and use up a lot of the cart when a "virgin" printer is first setup.

I have seen some older Canon printers that actually had the printhead on the cart though. This way you never had to replace the entire printer due to clogged heads anyway.

*Update: Conde posted about the same time I did and got in right before my post so SG shared the date information with the vendors.*


----------



## Riderz Ready

Almost comical if it was not such an abuse of a monoply over the consumer. Here you have a company that found the problem and instead of doing the right thing and recall all the faulty cartridges remained hush hush and let the printers to continue to fail. Why were they not instantly recalled - MONEY!  Then if I read it right they were "kind" enough to replace two of the four cartirdges for free. What about the other two?

To make it even worse no one knows how to tell an old from a new cartridge so consumers can protect themselves from further damage. I can only assume from the Sawgrass Cartels previous behavior on this issue that if they released the way to tell old from new cartridges, and lets be homest they kow how to do it, that it would result people demanding to have their cratridges replaced. As stated before, money seems to get in the way of the truth and very simply business ethics.


----------



## LB

This makes me wonder also, there are some companies out there selling ink for the Ricohs that is out of date. I know that JDS had a special not long ago and stated that the ink was ok, it was just slightly out of the sell by date. My thought is that it is quite possible that these carts could fall into the defective ones that David has described. That would open up another can of worms there.


----------



## freebird1963

Most reputable companies would have sent their bad stock to a 3rd world country. ;D

Wrong terminology for the cart contacts. Just overall generic term used. But still from what Dave said sounds like that was part of the problem.

Comparing new inks I got couple months ago to older empty ones no real difference in serial numbers that I would call a "AH HA" moment.
Contacts are simple and look the same in size and placement. Unless there some type of coating but doubt that on them I don't see to the naked eye a difference there. 

Oh well I pray everytime I go to use my Gx-7000.


----------



## freebird1963

You would think the SG would come on here and dispel any doubts or miss info that has been posted. Post a bulletin on their site. Try to calm the natives and insure us that all is good in Dyeland. 
Look how many other companies have even if for one post. But no SG anywhere that I have seen. 
I wonder too about the other dyesub vendors that have been silent on all this w/o pipping up. 
Damn Columbo died. Good mystery for him to solve. RIP.


----------



## Riderz Ready

freebird1963 said:


> You would think the SG would come on here and dispel any doubts or miss info that has been posted. Post a bulletin on their site. Try to calm the natives and insure us that all is good in Dyeland.
> Look how many other companies have even if for one post. But no SG anywhere that I have seen.
> I wonder too about the other dyesub vendors that have been silent on all this w/o pipping up.
> Damn Columbo died. Good mystery for him to solve. RIP.


There is a difference of "saying something" versus saying something of value and honesty. To me shuffling your feet on this topic is not truly saying anything at all. This again is the issue of a monoply of a manufacture that highly limits the number of distributors and obviously has very tight control of them and their actions. This is why I always refer to the Sawgrass Cartel. The distributors and Sawgrass are one in the same. 

You need not wonder why Sawgrass or distributors do not post information on this issue as it is very clear - MONEY! You post which cartridges are good and which cartridges are bad and they will get flooded with relacement request. It is very clear that from the start they measured the cost of coming clean and issuing a recall versus the cost of covering printers under warranty and determined it was less costly to them to cover printers then replace bad product. Of course this is in total disregard of the consumers who would have printers fail outside of warranty. 

The lack of business ethics is incredible and only viable with a company that knows for many there is no other choice.


----------



## BillyV

Well David,
I have a brand new GX7000 (2nd one thanks to SG that I paid for) with less than 2 dozen pages printed that quit within hours of putting in the new cartridges and SG refused to do anything but replace two cartridges... I still haven't been able to get SG to fix my new printer and Richo says it is a SG issue... You have always been a great guy and helped allot of us out here on the forum and we all thank you for that!!! SG unfortunately doesn't seem to share info or admit anything to those of us who have spent thousands of dollars on ink and printers, just an offer of a couple inks and good luck next.

Let me know if you have a use for a brand new GX7000 that is completely full of ink with new cartridges and a blown power board!


----------



## Conde_David

How long have you had the second printer?
You just charged it with ink and it failed right
away?


----------



## ladyjn13

Conde_David said:


> When I received the bulletin from Sawgrass,
> we provided SG our inventory information.
> 
> They indicated that our invetory was up to
> date.
> 
> I will get the date of the bulletin.


I'd buy this if the inks that broke the latest printer had not come direct from Sawgrass as replacements in January for one that killed an earlier printer. No David, nothings fixed and SG continues to feed us this crap and thinks we're happy to bend over and take it, cause they're the only game in town. 

Mark me as one who's jumped ship and was able to save at least one other potential customer from the darkside of the SG cartel.


----------



## Conde_David

I hear you.
When did you get the inks?
What are the dates on the inks?

There was a window of time before the
new carts were shipping.

Did you start your new printer with new
Carts?


----------



## Riderz Ready

ladyjn13 said:


> I'd buy this if the inks that broke the latest printer had not come direct from Sawgrass as replacements in January for one that killed an earlier printer. No David, nothings fixed and SG continues to feed us this crap and thinks we're happy to bend over and take it, cause they're the only game in town.
> 
> Mark me as one who's jumped ship and was able to save at least one other potential customer from the darkside of the SG cartel.


It is a service to the dye sub community to keep each other informed and your post reflects such. There is a simple question that should be answered by the Sawgrass Cartel. If there are specific dates of ink cartridges that are causing issues why have they never been recalled? Why does the cartel continue to let printer after printer fail when it can be prevented? I think we can come to the conclusion that the cost to recall all the bad cartridges is much greater then replacing the printers. It is a complete abuse of the consumer caused by a monopoly.


----------



## dizzy1949

I have seven of these printers and within the last months two printers had this problem. 

Ricoh Netherlands says nothing can be done.

There are no spare parts, nothing at all. Like they are new on the market.


----------



## mgparrish

dizzy1949 said:


> I have seven of these printers and within the last months two printers had this problem.
> 
> Ricoh Netherlands says nothing can be done.
> 
> There are no spare parts, nothing at all. Like they are new on the market.


Having so many printers I would assume that you are doing high volume and "scaled" your operation? 

If so, I would assume that you are using and changing into new carts fairly frequently?

The reason I am asking is that Sawgrass has claimed these dying printers are from where users are not printing often enough, and the inks in the carts are getting old.

In your case I would think you are going through carts and inks on a regular basis.


----------



## dizzy1949

I have seven copyshops where these printers are located. Sawgrass might be right, for one of the shops does the orders of the webshop and is printing everyday without any problem. And the two printers that do not startup anymore are liocated in more quiet shops.
But I do not understand what the ink has to do with the eletricityswitch that does not give current when we swith the printers on!


----------



## shirts456

I think it's time to call the Better Business Bureau.


----------



## dizzy1949

Good idea, but I am located in The Netherlands


----------



## 34Ford

The BBB is not the answer either.

I saw a show where this business got a low rating, and they called the BBB. Turns out you can pay to have your ratings bumped up.
Money talks.


----------



## ladyjn13

Conde_David said:


> I hear you.
> When did you get the inks?
> What are the dates on the inks?
> 
> There was a window of time before the
> new carts were shipping.
> 
> Did you start your new printer with new
> Carts?


David,
This was a brand new printer and brand new cartridges delivered to us by Ricoh and SG at the end of January 2011, after screwing up the last one. Don't you think that if the problem was really solved that this one would have finally worked? Don't you think SG would have checked the dates and lot numbers of the inks prior to sending them, just to ensure we won't have a problem again? That would imply a company that cares about their customers. Obviously, they are making money hand over fist and just don't give a damn. We are officially done with the SG cartel, are still very much in the dye sub game, sold the #3 brand new replacement unit to someone else for $800, and purchased our replacement for less than $400. I'll be happy to let folks know, off forum, what we bought and will be starting a separate thread sharing our experiences. I know a number of people who went to this system and not a one complains the ink cause issues with the printer, ever. Never a statement that SG could make in a million years! We're hugely disappointed.


----------



## 2 Piece

Don't want to hijack this GX7000 thread but my GXe3300 that is 1 year and 3 weeks old just died. It would not turn on either, I think it has to do with the power supply card. But just like many others of you on here I am not getting any satisfaction from either SG or Conde. I guess this problem is not just a GX7000 problem. Buyers beware. Looks like the cheap Epson's and the import dye inks maybe the way to go.


----------



## ladyjn13

I don't believe you're truly hijacking the thread. This is valuable information for everyone. You're posting just helps prove the point that it's not the printer but the crappy ink from Sawgrass.


----------



## dizzy1949

Hi all,

Can anybody explain me how the ink or cartridge can stop the working of the main switch?
For it seems that seems to be the reason.

Regards, 
Dizzy
www.printer.nl


----------



## ladyjn13

This is the question that perplexes all of us. You'd think in a sealed cartridge system this won't be a problem and with Ricoh inks, it is not. Only units with SG inks are a problem. This information I got from a Ricoh tech. Being a tech myself, working on the other end of the phone for the past 15+ years, I can usually get them to tell me the real story. Seem Ricoh is not happy with SG and their crappy inks. In fact with the last printer, because the SG inks leaked all over, under warranty on a 4 month old machine, Ricoh refused to cover the unit or repairs. SG ate the bill for the replacement and a complete set of cartridges.

I would think it might be cheaper to just fix the problem. It seems to me that SG is just so stubborn that they'd rather pay money for replacements rather than admit a mistake. What hubris!


----------



## 2 Piece

I'm still not sure if it is an ink issue, the Ricoh GXe3300n/SG inks did make some really nice dye sub images. Maybe the inks are a little harder to pump through the lines and creates a larger electrical draw on "the control/ power supply board" which leads to overload and burn out...I don't know.

Everybody at Conde and Saw Grass have been very nice and apologetic, but bottom line is my printer has been out of warranty for 3 weeks and there will be no warranty repair or replacement. If I buy another Ricoh printer and send Saw grass the recipe, they will send me a "free" ink cartridge for my troubles...hehehe. 
Let me see if I have this figured right.. I buy a $400.00+ Ricoh SG ink printer combo, plus another set of inks $240.00 over the coarse of a year (I am very low volume on sublimation, I think I have made about 90 coffee mugs this last year) and then the printer STOPS working. Basically, if I want to continue using SG inks/ Ricoh, I will need to buy another $400.00 combo. Technically, I could just buy another printer, but since my ink carts are already half empty, by the time I get the lines charged in the new printer I will have to buy new ink carts at $240.00. It's not really a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is just a lot of money being spent on a set up that probably is not worth it, at least from reading all the post on this thread. If I would have had a cheap Epson set up on bulks (other than SG) and the printer died I would be out only about $70.00.
I am not trying to flame either Conde, Saw Grass or Ricoh, just posting about my experience with them so hopefully others will gain from my experience and will be able to make a more informed decision before they make their dye sublimation purchase. I feel for you guys with the 7700's that really has to hurt!

Gary


----------



## Conde_David

What are the dates on your inks?
Did we replace the printer?


----------



## dizzy1949

The serial numbers of the printers are R2300300099 en de R2300300098. 
Not knowing the problem was with the inks we used the ink in the new GX 7000 printer we bought a replacement.
We had inks with numbers,now dates 3x 060510 en 1 x black 300410

We have eight (2 each color) new unused cartirdges we hav in stock with the numbers: 
151210, cyan
171210, yellow
101210, magenta 
050111, black

Regards,

Dizzy de Wijngaert


----------



## dizzy1949

Our total stock of cartirdges in the shops seems to be larger.


171210, yellow 7 st.
060510, yellow 1 st..
060510, magenta. 2 st
101210, magenta 5 st.
050111, black 8 st
300410, black 2 st
060510, cyan 2 st
151210, cyan 5 st.


----------



## LB

dizzy1949 said:


> The serial numbers of the printers are R2300300099 en de R2300300098.
> Not knowing the problem was with the inks we used the ink in the new GX 7000 printer we bought a replacement.
> We had inks with numbers,now dates 3x 060510 en 1 x black 300410
> 
> We have eight (2 each color) new unused cartirdges we hav in stock with the numbers:
> 151210, cyan
> 171210, yellow
> 101210, magenta
> 050111, black
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dizzy de Wijngaert


Just an observation-is it just a coincidence that those two printers were apparently made on the same day, the serial numbers indicate that? R2300300099 & R2300300098.


----------



## dizzy1949

I think it is because we bought them on the same day with 3 others.


----------



## LB

dizzy1949 said:


> I think it is because we bought them on the same day with 3 others.


I fail to understand the connection-why would that be? Did you purchase them from the factory?


----------



## Riderz Ready

ladyjn13 said:


> I would think it might be cheaper to just fix the problem. It seems to me that SG is just so stubborn that they'd rather pay money for replacements rather than admit a mistake. What hubris!


Follow the money and you have your answer. Sawgrass and their distributors who are pushing these printers heavily are not worried about the issue of admitting a big mistake but most worried how much it would cost them if they do admit the products they are selling are destroying printers. 

They simply weigh which is going to cost the most: 

(a) Recall all the cartridges that are KNOWN to be bad. $$$$$
(b) Eat the cost of the printers under warranty going bad. $$

By recalling all the cartridges Sawgrass and their distributors open all sorts of doors that would cost some real money. If they were true ambassadors to the dye sublimation market they would simply recall the cartridges they KNOW are bad and stop shuffling their feet with random excuses. 

It is refreshing that people in the desktop market are taking time to educate themselves to the options available to them.


----------



## dizzy1949

Conde did not replace any printer


----------



## LB

dizzy1949 said:


> Conde did not replace any printer


Dizzy, I don't think David realizes you are in the Netherlands and you didn't buy the printer('s) from him (Conde) Too bad too, had you been able to you would probably have your problem resolved.


----------



## dizzy1949

LB said:


> Dizzy, I don't think David realizes you are in the Netherlands and you didn't buy the printer('s) from him (Conde) Too bad too, had you been able to you would probably have your problem resolved.


 

Ricoh Netherlands says "so sorry" too. They do not have spare parts either.


----------



## Conde_David

LB said:


> Just an observation-is it just a coincidence that those two printers were apparently made on the same day, the serial numbers indicate that? R2300300099 & R2300300098.


Those carts are out of date by quite abit.

As I have posted before, Sawgrass corrected
the issue with the carts. I wish I had an exact
date of when this was done.

My best guess is that it was done in late 2010.

The issue mainly effected folks who seldom
used their printer.

By the dates on your inks, I am guessing
that you have not used the printers much.

Have you contacted Sawgrass in Europe?
What did they say?


----------



## 2 Piece

David,
May I ask what the ink carts have to do with the power supply not working?
Gary


----------



## dizzy1949

Conde_David said:


> Those carts are out of date by quite abit.
> 
> As I have posted before, Sawgrass corrected
> the issue with the carts. I wish I had an exact
> date of when this was done.
> 
> My best guess is that it was done in late 2010.
> 
> The issue mainly effected folks who seldom
> used their printer.
> 
> By the dates on your inks, I am guessing
> that you have not used the printers much.
> 
> Have you contacted Sawgrass in Europe?
> What did they say?


Where is Sawgrass Europe located. 

We use the printers almost everyday and one of them even some ten times a day.


----------



## mgparrish

Conde_David said:


> Those carts are out of date by quite abit.
> 
> *As I have posted before, Sawgrass corrected*
> *the issue with the carts. I wish I had an exact*
> *date of when this was done.*
> 
> *My best guess is that it was done in late 2010.*
> 
> The issue mainly effected folks who seldom
> used their printer.
> 
> By the dates on your inks, I am guessing
> that you have not used the printers much.
> 
> Have you contacted Sawgrass in Europe?
> What did they say?


This person has mentioned a brand new printer with the "dead" defect. Bold emphasis mine.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-11.html#post950786


"Well David,
I have a *brand new* GX7000 (2nd one thanks to SG that I paid for) with less than 2 dozen pages printed that quit within hours of putting in the *new cartridges* and SG refused to do anything but replace two cartridges... I still haven't been able to get SG to fix my new printer and Richo says it is a SG issue... You have always been a great guy and helped allot of us out here on the forum and we all thank you for that!!! SG unfortunately doesn't seem to share info or admit anything to those of us who have spent thousands of dollars on ink and printers, just an offer of a couple inks and good luck next.

Let me know if you have a use for a *brand new GX7000* that is completely full of ink with *new cartridges and a blown power board*!"


----------



## dizzy1949

dizzy1949 said:


> Where is Sawgrass Europe located.
> 
> We use the printers almost everyday and one of them even some ten times a day.


 
I just looked for the purchadse dates and we bought the cartridges in May, 17th, 2010 ; januari 15th, 2011 and juni 16th 2011, so all of them were over the "date". We never were told and realised the date was important. we use ink form 2008 for the HP5050 for example without any problem.

I informed our distrinutor - Signseen in Holland - to replace undermentioned cartridges.

We did print since the beginning of 2010 some 10.000 mugs, tiles etc, so most of the printers are used rather regurlarly.




171210, yellow 7 st.

060510, yellow 1 st..
060510, magenta. 2 st
101210, magenta 5 st.
050111, black 8 st
300410, black 2 st
060510, cyan 2 st
151210, cyan 5 st.


----------



## Conde_David

You need to be using carts that have 2012
dates if possible.


----------



## 2 Piece

David,
Could you please help me understand what the carts have to do with the printer not turning on? This thread is "Ricoh GX7000 will not turn on". I added that I am having the same problem with my GXe3300n. Nothing was wrong with the printing prior to what I think is the power supply burning out. Mine was 3 weeks out of warranty.
Gary


----------



## Conde_David

I may be able to help you with your printer.

Last year I reported this issue to Ricoh and
Sawgrass. After extensive research, Sawgrass
made a change to their carts.

This change happened right at the end of last
year or beginning of this year.

Look at the dates on your carts. What are
they?

The issue mainly effected printers that are
seldom used. How much printing dud you do?

Were you still on your first set of carts?

Also, the issue with your printer may be
unrelated to the ink cart. This is a generic
kind of failure like "my car won't start"

I usually can help so get in touch with us.


----------



## Conde_David

mgparrish said:


> This person has mentioned a brand new printer with the "dead" defect. Bold emphasis mine.
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-11.html#post950786
> 
> 
> "Well David,
> I have a *brand new* GX7000 (2nd one thanks to SG that I paid for) with less than 2 dozen pages printed that quit within hours of putting in the *new cartridges* and SG refused to do anything but replace two cartridges... I still haven't been able to get SG to fix my new printer and Richo says it is a SG issue... You have always been a great guy and helped allot of us out here on the forum and we all thank you for that!!! SG unfortunately doesn't seem to share info or admit anything to those of us who have spent thousands of dollars on ink and printers, just an offer of a couple inks and good luck next.
> 
> Let me know if you have a use for a *brand new GX7000* that is completely full of ink with *new cartridges and a blown power board*!"


I think I would be able to get this printer replaced
as it failed sort of out of the box. This failure
if I read it correctly is not related to a cart issue.

And that is the challenge. Sort of like my car
not strarting. Could be numerous reasons.

Do you know who this is?


----------



## mgparrish

Conde_David said:


> I think I would be able to get this printer replaced
> as it failed sort of out of the box. This failure
> if I read it correctly is not related to a cart issue.
> 
> And that is the challenge. Sort of like my car
> not strarting. Could be numerous reasons.
> 
> Do you know who this is?


I don't know him but you can click the link for the post on the previous page. Possible he didn't subscribe to the thread and won't get update emails. I'll send him a PM.

Yes, it would seem he could get free replacement by SG since this is a new unit.

I also agree that there are other possibilities for his defect ... maybe just an unlucky player in the "bathtub curve lottery", as nearly are all "infant failures".

But I also believe until his specific defect is known, there is still possibility that he failure mode of his printer could still be related to the SG inks. 

My read on his post is that no one has actually looked at the printer and his interaction was either email based or over the phone. No one has physically tested that specific printer and his mention of *blown power board* was either suggested over the phone by Ricoh or SG, or he assumed that diagnosis based on reading the posts around the forums. 

*So that means there is uncertainty on his defect, it could be the specific failure mode of the SG ink/cart killing the printer or it could not be. But this also puts uncertainty to the presumed SG resolution of the problem that you seem to conclude is true.*

I have serious doubt that this specific problem being resolved 100%. My strong belief is that the exact root cause either is not known, or it is known but can't be resolved without degrading or defeating the sub inks purpose. 

*The "smoking gun" here is that new printer owners and those having "new" carts are still being told to use the inks in a shorter window of time*. If the root cause of the problem was corrected then the _normal_ shelf life of the sublimation ink would the only time window concern, but a condensed time window is still being suggested.

Normally the corrective action applied to a root cause of a defect can be tested over a number of systems (in isolation) and over a period of time. It is also possible to shorten the time to failure by "acceleration" ... either exercising the system _continuosly_ to simulate aging of the part, or other methods such as using other accelerators, such as "HAST" or "HALT" .

But this defect is being reported as using the inks _infrequently, _therefore no way to accelerate infrequent usage. Looking for this products specific defect has to be tested in "real time".

In practical terms it would be necessary to put "new" inks thought to be good into a test group of printers, print rarely or leave idle for extended periods of time, then wait 6 months or perhaps up to a year and see if any printers experience the defect. In the language of Failure Analysis this means that the root cause is identified, a corrective action is formed, then the effects of the corrective action are studied until it is confirmed effective and the problem resolved.

A part that is failing due to not being able to fulfill it's expected usage life span can be accelerated to fail faster by extended usage and no need to wait 6 months or a year in "real time".

*****
Bottom line ...

A very real scenario is that the inks either cannot be corrected without messing up the inks, therefore the root cause defect cannot be corrected.

or

The root cause cannot be precisely identified, meaning they don't know how to fix it precisely until root cause is identified.
*****

Either scenario it is possible that SG has only presented a work-around to the problem and failures could still occur under infrequent usage conditions. 

Otherwise no need to use the "new" carts quickly if the defect was corrected and addressed at the root cause. No need for users to use the inks quickly if SG really fixed this.

Unless infrequent users that have "new" carts are no longer reporting defects, and this will take time to determine, then this issue cannot be deemed "closed" ... there is no data to support closure since new users and existing users are still be told to use inks quickly.

In other words, the data indicates the only corrective action that is helping with any certainty is "education".


----------



## Conde_David

Ricoh has confirmed (to me) that the issue
has been fixed. 

It really is fixed. On new printer installs,
it would rare to have a failure like this.


----------



## mgparrish

Conde_David said:


> Ricoh has confirmed (to me) that the issue
> has been fixed.
> 
> It really is fixed. On new printer installs,
> it would rare to have a failure like this.


But it was stated this is a SG issue and not a Ricoh issue. Ricoh has assurance that SG resolved this? Why would Ricoh need assurance? They are still not honoring any SG related warranty, read the gentlemen's post again with the new printer.

How can this be 100% determined if the defect takes many months to manifest. No way to accelerate infrequent usage, so only some period of time must elapse to prove this corrective action, if there really was one. The report of the corrective action is still shorter than the time to manifest.

How about ask someone for the Failure Analysis and post it here?

If it is "fixed" then why do new users and new cart users still have to use the inks quickly?

BS


----------



## Red744T

It could be the gel ink being produced by saw grass dries up over time, clogs the lines, overloads the pump motor and blows out some electronic components. Otherwise, why bother with the daily printing routine and defeats the purpose of using gel dye vs ink dye. But we really don't know because no explanation has been given. Supposedly, the new cartridge solves the problem? How? Donno. . . .


----------



## Conde_David

Good question.

Ricoh and Sawgrass worked together to
Identify the cause.

Sawgrass changed their carts and then Ricoh
Tested the new carts on a very large number
of printers.

I understand you want details and that is fair.


----------



## mgparrish

Red744T said:


> It could be the gel ink being produced by saw grass dries up over time, clogs the lines, overloads the pump motor and blows out some electronic components. Otherwise, why bother with the daily printing routine and defeats the purpose of using gel dye vs ink dye. But we really don't know because no explanation has been given. Supposedly, the new cartridge solves the problem? How? Donno. . . .


That is exactly what the data supports.

Solution, use your gel inks more frequently. SG benefits by having more accelerated ink sales.


----------



## mgparrish

Conde_David said:


> Good question.
> 
> Ricoh and Sawgrass worked together to
> Identify the cause.
> 
> Sawgrass changed their carts and then Ricoh
> Tested the new carts on a very large number
> of printers.
> 
> I understand you want details and that is fair.


From your statement ...

"Sawgrass changed their carts and then Ricoh tested the new carts on a very large number of printers."

While this could be true it does not prove the corrective action addressed the root cause. It only proves that any changes to the SG ink formulation didn't cause any immediate damage to the test group. 

I have done Failure analysis on semiconductors and electronic systems and had to report my findings to the military, aerospace and automotive industry. There is no way to accelerate this since the data supports it is infrequent usage causing the "chain of events".

If I had told these customers to "not let the system stay idle" as a short term solution I would have been sued (or my employer would have been). 

I would have to prove the effectiveness of the solution before they would accept more product, and anything in my inventory would have to be "contained" and their inventory would be given back and costs charged to my employer (full refund). Depending on the seriousness of the defect, systems or devices employed in the field may have to recalled as well.

The data supports the following.

1. Containment of the defect only appears to be at Sawgrass and possibly at the retail level. No users are reporting their known old serial number or date code carts are recalled.

2. The effectiveness of the corrective action addressing the root cause cannot be determined until a test group in isolation has zero defects using the "new" inks over a period of time known to manifest the problem. _The reported date of the identification of the root cause is less than the time needed to determine the problem is solved._

3. A "preventative" action is proposed, use the inks quickly. This is still in effect for new users and new cart users.


----------



## ladyjn13

Conde_David said:


> Ricoh has confirmed (to me) that the issue
> has been fixed.
> 
> It really is fixed. On new printer installs,
> it would rare to have a failure like this.


I received a replacement printer and replacement cartridges in January 2011. After 4 months, it was again dead because of ink cartridges.

What exactly was fixed?????


----------



## Conde_David

What are the dates on the carts?

For forum readers: I do not know nor have
I been told when SG started shipping
new carts. I was told that they had already
been shipping the new carts at the end of Jan 2010.


----------



## ladyjn13

Ok David, so according to what you are saying, when I received my replacement printer after being out of production for the entire month of January 2011 that it was bound to fail because the cartridges have a Use by date of 11/18/11. Good to know that SG replaces defective crap with more defective crap.

So finally, the new printer Ricoh refused to send, due to SG inks, came with inks for 2012 and should propably be fine. I'm sure the buyer of this unit I'm selling on eBay will be glad to know that the ink problems are probably fixed.

Mark me glad I jumped ship!


----------



## Conde_David

It sounds like your inks were just fine.
Those dates look good to me.

So did you install the printer?


----------



## dizzy1949

Conde_David said:


> It sounds like your inks were just fine.
> Those dates look good to me.
> 
> So did you install the printer?


 
Hi Dawid,

Is Signseen your distributor in the Netherlands/
Or is there another European distributor of Cone I can exchange the out of date inkcartidges with.

They delivered the cartirdges. 

Regards,
Dizzy


----------



## freebird1963

Now I am worried about these ink dates. I got ink from Conde several months ago with use by dates of
Black 11/16/11
Yellow 01/06/12
Magenta 11/08/11

David are those dates good ?


----------



## binki

been watching this thread for a while. it is very interesting. the ricoh printers have been sold as the problem solver to the epsons. 

i am really missing the relationship between the ink dates and the failure to turn on though. 

maybe a separate moderated thread on the problems and solutions would be in order?


----------



## ladyjn13

Conde_David said:


> You need to be using carts that have 2012
> dates if possible.


Well, according to this statement, Sawgrass finally fixed the problem on ink batches that have a Use By date in 2012. So finally after $1200, 11 months, (with only 5 months of usable production), now the latest printer and inks we received should be OK.

I'm taking an informal poll, who really believes the problem is resolved? 

BTW: Thanks SG for sending us a new in the box printer and inks. It's going up for sale on eBay soon. We're going to Cobra Inks. Even if the unit only last 4 months, the average amount of time the Ricoh's lasted, I can purchase the printer and CIS system for $400, and then 2 more $150 Workforce printers (one every 4 months) and still spend less money.


----------



## Conde_David

freebird1963 said:


> Now I am worried about these ink dates. I got ink from Conde several months ago with use by dates of
> Black 11/16/11
> Yellow 01/06/12
> Magenta 11/08/11
> 
> David are those dates good ?


I think those dates are fine. What about
the cyan?


----------



## Conde_David

dizzy1949 said:


> Hi Dawid,
> 
> Is Signseen your distributor in the Netherlands/
> Or is there another European distributor of Cone I can exchange the out of date inkcartidges with.
> 
> They delivered the cartirdges.
> 
> Regards,
> Dizzy


I do not know of them.
Maybe contact Sawgrass Europe?
Or printequipment.de


----------



## freebird1963

Conde_David said:


> I think those dates are fine. What about
> the cyan?


Was changed out already.


----------



## dizzy1949

David, 
I was told by your distributor Singseen in The Netherlands that the dates on the boxes are the productiondates and that they can be used up to a year affter that.

Whem you reacted I had the impression that the on the boxes mentioned dates are the last date for using.

What is right and what is wrong?


----------



## Conde_David

That is how it used to be.
They labeled it as the install by date.

Now, Sawgrass labels the cart as the use
by date.


----------



## Conde_David

That is how it used to be.
They labeled it as the install by date.

Now, Sawgrass labels the cart as the use
by date.


----------



## mn shutterbug

I have the Ricoh 5550, which I'm told has the same technology as the 7000 and uses the same cartridges. My printer will sometimes sit for 3 weeks without use and never have a problem. If the problem is the ink, why doesn't it affect my printer? I'm not defending their ink, I'm just puzzled.


----------



## freebird1963

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH TO ANYONE.
I had sent a pretty blunt and worded message to SG about the issues being brought up here and why they had not made an appearance to defend, explain or reassure us GX-7000 users. 
After playing phone tag for about two weeks (and this was mostly due to me) I talked to Carla Hart today from SG, Shes the Consumer division head tech support person. 
According to her the dates on the inks are irrelevant. They have no play in the failures. Her words were "no specific reasons" for them, the failures. She made it sound like the idea that the ink/carts were the issue is a spreading of misinformation situation.
Her reply was there was no way for SG to guarantee that putting in a cart that had a 2012 date would not result in a failure when I asked about the carts I have sitting here. There are a multitude of reasons for the failures was her statement. No one reason for them.

She said if anyone has a "dead" Ricoh GX-7000 they should contact SG directly. Or go through the disributor they purchased through and if no resolution contact SG. She said SG is "committed" to helping their users. One by one. In warranty or out. 

She said they do not monitor forums even tho I sent SG a link to the posts about failures and SG themselves. I do believe she did read through them. She said SG relies on their distributors as their front line to represent them. She rattled off a list of distributors and persons and I did tell her that David Gross of Conde was about the only one that showed any care in trying to help with these issues. There were other distributors that offered help in other matters but as for these greater issues not a peep out of any others other than David Gross. At least I had not seen any posts by any other distributor. 

This is the link I used to express my feelings and worries and concerns over these issues and from which she called me back from.
This link goes to the consumer division support.
Sawgrass Technologies - Contact Technical Support


I was pretty blunt in my message and quite frankly did not expect to 
hear from anyone. Hell maybe even a restraining order.

Maybe it will help some one get a resolution. Hope so.

And one point she made was that the failures are a vast minority of the installed units out there.

As for what was said and relayed to me take it for what you think its worth or may not be worth. I have my feelings about it but will keep that to myself.


----------



## Conde_David

What are the dates of your carts?


----------



## mgparrish

freebird1963 said:


> FOR WHAT ITS WORTH TO ANYONE.
> I had sent a pretty blunt and worded message to SG about the issues being brought up here and why they had not made an appearance to defend, explain or reassure us GX-7000 users.
> After playing phone tag for about two weeks (and this was mostly due to me) I talked to Carla Hart today from SG, Shes the Consumer division head tech support person.
> *According to her the dates on the inks are irrelevant. They have no play in the failures.* Her words were "no specific reasons" for them, the failures. She made it sound like the idea that the ink/carts were the issue is a spreading of misinformation situation.
> Her reply was there was no way for SG to guarantee that putting in a cart that had a 2012 date would not result in a failure when I asked about the carts I have sitting here. There are a multitude of reasons for the failures was her statement. No one reason for them.
> 
> She said if anyone has a "dead" Ricoh GX-7000 they should contact SG directly. Or go through the disributor they purchased through and if no resolution contact SG. She said SG is "committed" to helping their users. One by one. In warranty or out.
> 
> She said they do not monitor forums even tho I sent SG a link to the posts about failures and SG themselves. I do believe she did read through them. She said SG relies on their distributors as their front line to represent them. She rattled off a list of distributors and persons and I did tell her that David Gross of Conde was about the only one that showed any care in trying to help with these issues. There were other distributors that offered help in other matters but as for these greater issues not a peep out of any others other than David Gross. At least I had not seen any posts by any other distributor.
> 
> This is the link I used to express my feelings and worries and concerns over these issues and from which she called me back from.
> This link goes to the consumer division support.
> Sawgrass Technologies - Contact Technical Support
> 
> 
> I was pretty blunt in my message and quite frankly did not expect to
> hear from anyone. Hell maybe even a restraining order.
> 
> Maybe it will help some one get a resolution. Hope so.
> 
> And one point she made was that the failures are a vast minority of the installed units out there.
> 
> As for what was said and relayed to me take it for what you think its worth or may not be worth. I have my feelings about it but will keep that to myself.


If she claims the ink dates are irrelevant, that is in contrast to what they actually post online.

Sawgrass Technologies - Ink Expiration Information

Sawgrass Technologies - A Warning about Not Using Your System

The SG response reminds me of ....










I know nothing!!!!


----------



## mgparrish

ladyjn13 said:


> Well, according to this statement, Sawgrass finally fixed the problem on ink batches that have a Use By date in 2012. So finally after $1200, 11 months, (with only 5 months of usable production), now the latest printer and inks we received should be OK.
> 
> I'm taking an informal poll, who really believes the problem is resolved?
> 
> BTW: Thanks SG for sending us a new in the box printer and inks. It's going up for sale on eBay soon. We're going to Cobra Inks. Even if the unit only last 4 months, the average amount of time the Ricoh's lasted, I can purchase the printer and CIS system for $400, and then 2 more $150 Workforce printers (one every 4 months) and still spend less money.


Julie,

I am skeptical about the "fix".

Here is where things boil down to.

1. More than one user has contacted SG and they deny _any_ problem.

2. Conde is reporting that SG has advised a "new" ink and based on dates, old inks used are causing the problem.

So as the posts suggest, SG is lying to someone, either to the users that inquired, or to Conde.


----------



## 2 Piece

After one of my post on here last Saturday/ Friday I called and spoke with Mr. Gross, a very nice person, who told me to contact my sales rep on Monday and they would make replacing my 3 week out of warranty 3300 Ricoh painless. Well, I guess painless means spending another $330.00 plus dollars out of my pocket to replace a 1 year and 3 week old printer. I think I only spent a little over $400.00 to begin with. Oh, and by the way they highly suggest buying an extended warranty.... Guess what Conde... Good Products DO NOT Need warranties, let alone extended warranties. Good products have good companies that stand behind what they sell.
I will now be joining the many people who will be changing to cheap Epson and inks other than SawGrass and I know I will be money ahead. I would highly recommend Not getting a Ricoh setup with SawGrass inks! Just read this thread... Buyers beware.
Gary


----------



## Riderz Ready

The sad part about this situation is Sawgrass laughs all the way to the bank. Ricoh/Epson doesn't matter to them. 

The good news is more and more people are seeing this for what it is.


----------



## Conde_David

I thought we were replacing the printer at
no charge?


----------



## 2 Piece

I was hoping that was going to be the case, but.. My sales person is evidently at a trade show this week and I spoke with another sales rep (I will not mention name) and she was going to discount the cost of a printer. Here's the break down. I have half full "good" (as in the dates are the new and improved) carts, I told you dates when we spoke Saturday. If I get another printer, it will take most of the half full carts I have to prime the lines which means I need to buy more ink, which is OK by me. Plus SawGrass says they will send me 1 "free" cartridge with proof of new printer, so this means I will have to buy 3 ink carts along with a printer at discount equals $330.00 plus any postage.
Now with all that being said I have never expected a totally "free" printer and ink replacement from anybody. That is really not a reasonable assumption on my part, I expected to have to pay a little. Say a free printer and 1 free ink cart and I buy the other three carts, or maybe I buy the printer and get free ink carts.. just something along those lines. But I think it is a pretty large assumption on the parties involved to think that I will be a happy camper when I am basically told that I will need to buy a whole other setup at almost the same cost as the original I bought last year.
Gary


----------



## Conde_David

What was supposed to happen is the sales
rep was to see me. 


Call back. I agreed to replace the printer
at no charge.


----------



## mn shutterbug

Interesting. When I needed a 5050 replaced two times, each time Sawgrass sent me 2 free cartridges. They must be tightening up.  I didn't even need to send them proof of replacement.


----------



## ladyjn13

We just switched to a Workforce 1100 and Corbra inks.

Anyone want to buy a brand new SG replacement GX7000 with "fixed date" SG inks? 

I can't believe this link has got to 15 pages and SG claims there's nothing wrong, must be the fault of the printer.


----------



## mgparrish

ladyjn13 said:


> We just switched to a Workforce 1100 and Corbra inks.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a brand new SG replacement GX7000 with "fixed date" SG inks?
> 
> I can't believe this link has got to 15 pages and SG claims there's nothing wrong, must be the fault of the printer.


I can't say that I have seen every post in every forum ... but I have not seen any complaints from SG Chromablast Ricoh users.

There could be more sublimation Ricoh users than Chromablast Ricoh users out there, so would be fewer complaints if it was strictly the printer, but I haven't seen a single post. Same printer different inks.


----------



## 2 Piece

I would like to post that it looks like Conde is going to replace my Ricoh 3300, thanks to the help of David Gross. Thank you David! I spoke to another sales rep today and they are suppose to be sending me another printer, yeah! I will post an update once it arrives.
I would also like to say once again that everybody at Conde was always very nice and apologetic throughout this ordeal I have had. And that the print and sublimation quality of the Ricoh and SawGrass was great. My problem was that the printer "won't turn on". 
Conde has/ is standing behind a product they sold to me, and I shall in turn stand behind them. Thank You David and Conde.
Gary


----------



## dizzy1949

2 Piece said:


> I would like to post that it looks like Conde is going to replace my Ricoh 3300, thanks to the help of David Gross. Thank you David! I spoke to another sales rep today and they are suppose to be sending me another printer, yeah! I will post an update once it arrives.
> I would also like to say once again that everybody at Conde was always very nice and apologetic throughout this ordeal I have had. And that the print and sublimation quality of the Ricoh and SawGrass was great. My problem was that the printer "won't turn on".
> Conde has/ is standing behind a product they sold to me, and I shall in turn stand behind them. Thank You David and Conde.
> Gary


 
Wauw, that's nice. I got two Ricoh GX 7000 with the same "won't turn on" problem.
Did not hear anything from Sawgrass or Ricoh or anybody as yet about a printer to be replaced.
Perhaps for it's in Europe, The Netherlands.

Ricoh Netherlands says, buy new ones.


----------



## Ioverdosed

dizzy1949 said:


> Wauw, that's nice. I got two Ricoh GX 7000 with the same "won't turn on" problem.
> Did not hear anything from Sawgrass or Ricoh or anybody as yet about a printer to be replaced.
> Perhaps for it's in Europe, The Netherlands.
> 
> Ricoh Netherlands says, buy new ones.


My first GX7000 died 10 months ago and my second one just died today. What the heck?


----------



## Conde_David

What are the dates on your carts?


----------



## obzelite

here i was thinking the USA was the land of litigation, yet noone has started a class action yet.
pretty sure ricoh would be pretty quick to the party to point out that no printer with standard cartridges has ever had the problem, so that only leaves the sg cartridges and a whole bunch of people with the same problem.


----------



## Red744T

A sad update.

Oct 2010 - 1st GX7000 bough in Aug 09' and with 4 pages printed, died an unexpected death.
Jan 2011 - Grudgingly spent another $1k for replacement GX7000 + 2 ink cartridge + 2 free ink cartridge.
Aug 2011 - 2nd GX7000 leaking cyan ink out the bottom of the ink cartridge area.


I did my best. Bought a made in Japan printer, US made mug press, US made heat press, US made mugs and US made mouse pads. Sorry, Sawgrass's substandard ink let us down again. . . .


----------



## ladyjn13

OMG(osh) the Cyan ink leaked all over the place and made a mess! But Staci at Sawgrass swears they fixed that problem. Does this sound familiar?

Or better yet..."What's the date on the ink cartridge?" You know all the other manufactures recall their defective products and want to get the bad items off the shelves, knowing that leaving them causes more damage to their reputation.

It's very evident that Sawgrass doesn't care. It's all about the $$$. Perhaps they'd make even more if they were just a little more forthright.


----------



## Ioverdosed

I just got off the phone with Sawgrass and was told the ink is not what is causing the printer to fail????


----------



## Riderz Ready

Ioverdosed said:


> I just got off the phone with Sawgrass and was told the ink is not what is causing the printer to fail????


Sounds like Sawgrass and their cartel members need to get into a room and decide what this months excuse is going to be. In the meantime they will continue to sell them as if everything is just fine.


----------



## obzelite

Ioverdosed said:


> I just got off the phone with Sawgrass and was told the ink is not what is causing the printer to fail????


so i am to understand they are saying ricoh are selling faulty printers? sounds like libel to me.
maybe someone should contact ricoh over there and tell them what sawgrass are saying about their printers.


----------



## Riderz Ready

I would bet you could call five times and get five stories which in itself is amazing. This is simply a classic example of the harm a monoply can cause to the consumers. Sawgrass has zero incentive to recall their faulty products and less so with every additional unit sold. They have mastered the art of blaming printers. To this day you still see post about Epson printers clogging when in fact Espon printers do NOT clog unless you use Sawgrass ink. 

The sad part is that there has been known problems for quite sometime yet Sawgrass and the Cartel kept on selling them without hesitation. It would be like those that sell mugs to have the handles keep falling off yet keep selling them in hopes that more handles stay on then fall off.

Personally I believe the only thing that will change this market is when the patents run out and the Sawgrass Cartel scrambles, in the light of stiff competition, to make reverse a decade plus of price gouging consumers on low quality ink.


----------



## rst12345

Two weeks ago I also joined the "broken Ricoh 7000 power button club" fortunately I was within a month of the warranty period. Sawgrass sent out another printer and two inks. I was surprised at how easily they honored the warranty. I am fearful of the future of my new printer though and hope this problem is solved soon.


----------



## ladyjn13

Yeah don't count on anything being fixed and quick spend more money on an extended warranty. Don't bother buying the extended warranty from Conde though, they charge too much. Call my favorite vendor, Coast Graphic Supply in Ventura, (805) 642-5585. Jim, Esther, and the rest of the crew will take good care of you for less. We compared prices when we still had one of these units and found that Coast had a much better price.

It is said that word of mouth advertising is the best bang for the buck. Hearing about Corbra Inks on this forum drove our decision to leave the SG Cartel and if we can do things to help Coast Graphics sell more, I'm good with that.

By the way, we are really loyal customers, if you cannot tell.  Call and talk to the team at Coast Graphics Supply, you'll become a believer too!


----------



## tshrtman2000

hi
i am pretty hot right now. having the same problem. bought a richo gx7000 on my may 1,2010. hardly used and it broke down on me in march 2011. i called and they sent me a referbished one. it broke down today after very little use of it and ricoh is telling me i am out of warranty. the power is not coming on. it flickers for a minute then turns off. there are many other complaints about the same issue with this product. i spent $1200.00 for a machine that was barly a year old and this is a second machine. i will never buy a ricoh or a salt grass product ever. if anyone has any suggestions, it would be appericited
jazz
[email protected]


----------



## Tri Star Byron

i would definatley recommend to NOT buy the ricoh 7000. I bought one, 8 months later it died. Bad print heads and power supply. Got the replacement printer 6 months later, but that one died after 6 months, same problem. Now I'm out of warranty so have to buy a new one. I am definately not going with the 7000. You know the saying....fool me once. Going to try the 3300, but I really hate giving Ricoh any more of my money. Not sure sublimation is really worth it anyway. It is hard to get people to pay the prices they need to make any money on it


----------



## Riderz Ready

Tri Star Byron said:


> i would definatley recommend to NOT buy the ricoh 7000. I bought one, 8 months later it died. Bad print heads and power supply. Got the replacement printer 6 months later, but that one died after 6 months, same problem. Now I'm out of warranty so have to buy a new one. I am definately not going with the 7000. You know the saying....fool me once. Going to try the 3300, but I really hate giving Ricoh any more of my money. Not sure sublimation is really worth it anyway. It is hard to get people to pay the prices they need to make any money on it


I believe the issue with dye sublimation is how it is originally sold to people. If you go to a seminar, trade show, etc it is all the same old sell to churches, schools, etc etc etc and people get the idea that you can get a small dye sub system and make a living selling shirts, mouse pads, cups, etc. In reality you are competing against 1000+ other people doing the same thing. To me it is about selling a design that happens to be placed on an object. When you sell designs, art, images that are unique to you, you are no longer selling just a mouse pad.


----------



## Tri Star Byron

Good point


----------



## obzelite

Tri Star Byron said:


> i would definatley recommend to NOT buy the ricoh 7000. I bought one, 8 months later it died. Bad print heads and power supply. Got the replacement printer 6 months later, but that one died after 6 months, same problem. Now I'm out of warranty so have to buy a new one. I am definately not going with the 7000. You know the saying....fool me once. Going to try the 3300, but I really hate giving Ricoh any more of my money. Not sure sublimation is really worth it anyway. It is hard to get people to pay the prices they need to make any money on it


its not the printer, search for problems with it on google and they all lead to sawgrass and sublimation. use the printer in its original format as a colour printer and you have no problems.


----------



## Tri Star Byron

good to know, but i think my 7000 is dead now. power supply or something. Do you know if there is a way to replace that and or the print heads.


----------



## ladyjn13

Only know why to replace power supply or print heads is get a new unit. Ricoh does not sell any service parts for the GX7000.


----------



## Red744T

Red744T said:


> A sad update.
> 
> Oct 2010 - 1st GX7000 bough in Aug 09' and with 4 pages printed, died an unexpected death.
> Jan 2011 - Grudgingly spent another $1k for replacement GX7000 + 2 ink cartridge + 2 free ink cartridge.
> Aug 2011 - 2nd GX7000 leaking cyan ink out the bottom of the ink cartridge area.
> 
> 
> I did my best. Bought a made in Japan printer, US made mug press, US made heat press, US made mugs and US made mouse pads. Sorry, Sawgrass's substandard ink let us down again. . . .



I called David at Conde and the problem was with the Sawgrass ink cartridge. A quick call to sawgrass and a replacement cartridge was sent to me with a return label for the defective cartridge. 

Despite my problems, I still think David/Conde is a pretty good vendor. However, I still have a very very low opinion of sawgrass and I do wish there are replacement dye sub inks from a sawgrass competitor.


----------



## mgparrish

Red744T said:


> I called David at Conde and the problem was with the Sawgrass ink cartridge. A quick call to sawgrass and a replacement cartridge was sent to me with a return label for the defective cartridge.
> 
> Despite my problems, I still think David/Conde is a pretty good vendor. However, I still have a very very low opinion of sawgrass *and I do wish there are replacement dye sub inks from a sawgrass competitor*.


 
There is competition ...

.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began

They have Ricoh inks and refillable carts now showing on the website in addition to Epson.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Has anyone heard of or used Visi-Sub ink?

Products | Octi-Tech

Looks like they also have ink for Epsons and Ricohs


----------



## freebird1963

Riderz Ready said:


> Has anyone heard of or used Visi-Sub ink?
> 
> Products | Octi-Tech
> 
> Looks like they also have ink for Epsons and Ricohs


Thats Pauls Europe division. The USA distributor is here
For Ricoh GX7000: Transfer Supplies USA

Same price. Licensed so is it really Visi ink or rebadged SG ink ? 

There are other vendors for other products offered by Octi but only Transfersupplies carries the ink.


----------



## ladyjn13

After all this, does any still have a GX7000? Does someone want to try these inks to see if they kill the printer? If the printer survives more than 6 months, then they are probably not rebranded SG inks.

Does any want to shoot craps?


----------



## PaulHirst

Hi Julie

Julie this is Paul i'm one of the owners of Octi Tech & Transfer Supplies. Regarding the inks we offer for the Ricoh's our inks are made by Sawgrass under license and barring the odd couple of instances we have not experienced any of the issues I read about in these threads. We also have a VERY large fulfillment operation producing 10's of thousands of orders per month which extensively uses the Ricoh printer platform and if we were to hit some of the problems I have read about here it would have been disastrous for us.

I have no idea what has caused the problems I read about here and can't offer any advice but I did want to make clear that our ink is made by Sawgrass.

Hope That Helps

Paul Hirst
Octi-Tech


----------



## ladyjn13

Here's the latest error from my business partner's GX7000. The current unit is a 5 month old second replacement for the original unit, purchased in January 2011.

The background is supposed to be one solid color and not have a color change like this one.








Is this yet another GX7000 on its last legs?


----------



## Conde_David

What program are they printing from?
Using the powerdriver or icc profile?


----------



## freebird1963

PaulHirst said:


> Hi Julie
> 
> Julie this is Paul i'm one of the owners of Octi Tech & Transfer Supplies. Regarding the inks we offer for the Ricoh's our inks are made by Sawgrass under license and barring the odd couple of instances we have not experienced any of the issues I read about in these threads. We also have a VERY large fulfillment operation producing 10's of thousands of orders per month which extensively uses the Ricoh printer platform and if we were to hit some of the problems I have read about here it would have been disastrous for us.
> 
> I have no idea what has caused the problems I read about here and can't offer any advice but I did want to make clear that our ink is made by Sawgrass.
> 
> Hope That Helps
> 
> Paul Hirst
> Octi-Tech


Paul
So is it actually Sublijet R ink or is it your formula being produced by SG ?

Thanks
Mark


----------



## ladyjn13

Conde_David said:


> What program are they printing from?
> Using the powerdriver or icc profile?


David, this is from the Power Driver. Ths unit just started this new trick and nothing seems to clear up the problem. Doing a head flush only wastes more ink. We have never received full use from a set of cartridges and of course Sawgrass will only replace two of them. So this means if the printer is replaced yet again, it will cost us another $220. 

David, if you truly want to help. How about comping us the other inks and show us that you believe in this product. This is our 6th failed printer in a 12-month time period.


----------



## Conde_David

It does not look like a printer issue.
Looks like a powerdriver issue.
Call me.


----------



## ladyjn13

David,

I might be able to agree with you if indeed our printing of the same design two months ago, for the same customer, had not been flawless. Unfortunately, it looks like the SG inks are clogging and crapping out another GX7000, unless you have another idea.

We'll be calling Ricoh/Sawgrass on Tuesday again to get another replacement printer. This makes it 3 for my business partner since January 2011. This also means having to spend another $220 to get a complete set of inks.

This is why I ask, since you swear the issues are fixed, are you willing to comp us 2 ink cartridges? Sawgrass will not replace 4 and that leaves us 2 short, yet again.


----------



## Conde_David

Please call me.
In a few moments I can test the printer.
It does not look like a printer issue.

Can you please call me?
I ask all our clients to call us first.

Did you get the printer from us?

What are the dates?

I can then help with new carts if necessary.


----------



## ladyjn13

David,

If you really think this is a simple fix, we're willing to try. I forwarded your information to my business partner. He should be ringing you some time day.

These GX7000 units with SG inks have been nothing but a series of headaches. Hopefully your solution works. If it does, please let us know what you did. My partner is not very technical and will not be able to explain. This might help others as well.

Thanks,


----------



## ladyjn13

Just wanted to let you all know that David Gross was very helpful, he had some magic using ICC profiles that may have worked wonders. Unfortunately, the GX7000 took a dump and started printing black lines on every image and Ricoh wants to replace it.

The replacement is the good news, the bad news is its a refurbished unit and they discontinued the manufacture of this printer. Great! They want to send me a printer that was already somebody's problem. 

Basically, if you're thinking of getting a backup or purchasing an extended warranty, do it quickly. If Ricoh no longer has stock of new units, neither will the vendors soon.


----------



## babz

I never heard the gx7000 was discontinued or rehab units, they don't want them back. I have 2 now.


----------



## babz

2 paper weights that is, neither of them work, both shorted out and once you get past the original 12 month warranty you are out of luck, you will be told to just buy a new one.

no biggie, just spend a thousand bucks to replace a printer that should last fo years ???


----------



## babz

i got 8 months out of number 2


----------



## mgparrish

Maybe need to start a thread called "101 things to do with a dead Ricoh" ...

Paperweight
Door stop
Boat Anchor .....


----------



## ladyjn13

Well I yelled enough at Sawgrass, cause not only did this in warranty printer start streaking black lines, it then proceeded to leak yellow ink on the wood work surface, So much for a clean surface now that it has yellow ink soaked into it.

Oh by the way, this was with "fixed date" cartridges dated 2012. Guess they didn't quite fix this problem as well as they thought. We are getting one last new replacement unit. This will be going up for sale as soon as it arrives.

Anyone want a new in the box Ricoh 7000 and a complete set of sublimation inks, also new? Make me an offer.


----------



## babz

ladyjn13 said:


> Well I yelled enough at Sawgrass, cause not only did this in warranty printer start streaking black lines, it then proceeded to leak yellow ink on the wood work surface, So much for a clean surface now that it has yellow ink soaked into it.
> 
> Oh by the way, this was with "fixed date" cartridges dated 2012. Guess they didn't quite fix this problem as well as they thought. We are getting one last new replacement unit. This will be going up for sale as soon as it arrives.
> 
> Anyone want a new in the box Ricoh 7000 and a complete set of sublimation inks, also new? Make me an offer.


I'm going to stick with the GXe3300n for now and buy my bigger prints from ACP Tech when I need them. The 3300 $200. is the new throw away every 12 months if it goes bad. It's a step up from the 88 or c30 throw aways. I used to buy them from epson for $30. free shipping but the ink is more $$.
Until I know they have it fixed I won't buy another 7000. I went through 2 in 18 months.


----------



## jjsmalls08

Hi all, I too have a dead gx7000 that i purchased just last September. I barely used it. I may have done about 2 dozen mugs and about 5 or 6 mouse pads. Needless to say that when I went to use my printer just the other day after getting some work in, once my printer charged it self up, it shut off and wouldn't come back on. I was told by Andy of Conde support that Ricoh didn't make any replacement parts for my printer and that it would have to be replaced. My sales rep Michelle who was very helpful gave me the number to call Sawgrass to see if they would replace it being that it was just out of warranty. (only by 2 weeks though.) the bottom line with my situation is that Sawgrass won't replace my printer because it's out of warranty, but what they would do is allow me to use their print services free for 90 days without any upfront costs for paper or ink and that my designs would be shipped to be overnight, but i have to fill out a PDF form they sent me via email that has to be completed for each design. This does help some but what do I do with this dead gx7000 that i paid for as well as the package of 13 X 19 paper and balance of 8 1/2 X 11 paper that I cannot use? any suggestions?


----------



## Riderz Ready

It is clear Sawgrass does not care and to be honest they have little incentive to care as by having a virtual monoply on the entire desktop dye sublimation market you really have few choices. It does seem Cobra Ink is getting some traction on the forum as a viable option to desktop users. The only people that have a true stake in this the people you purchased it from as although you may not have many options on what type of ink you purchase in the future you do have a choice on who to purchase it from.

It is truly a shame this has been brought upon the market place but even worse it is virtually immoral for these distributors to have continued to recommend and sell these printers all the while knowing the issues that surround them. 

I am not sure if others have been privately scolded for calling Sawgrass and their distributors a CARTEL but I surely have. In looking back not only do they fit the definition of a cartel to a "T" but in actuality it is kind in comparison to what they should be called.

It should not be your responsibility to get Sawgrass to replace the printer unless you bought it from Sawgrass directly. That is the responsibility of your vendor. They do not replace it - walk.


----------



## jjsmalls08

Thanks Ryderz, I am still going to see what Conde can/ will do for me as well. There has to be some better compensation for this. Had i known of the issues with the gx7000, i would never have purchased it. Thank you for your reply.
-jjsmalls08


----------



## babz

Riderz Ready said:


> It is clear Sawgrass does not care and to be honest they have little incentive to care as by having a virtual monoply on the entire desktop dye sublimation market you really have few choices. It does seem Cobra Ink is getting some traction on the forum as a viable option to desktop users. The only people that have a true stake in this the people you purchased it from as although you may not have many options on what type of ink you purchase in the future you do have a choice on who to purchase it from.
> 
> It is truly a shame this has been brought upon the market place but even worse it is virtually immoral for these distributors to have continued to recommend and sell these printers all the while knowing the issues that surround them.
> 
> I am not sure if others have been privately scolded for calling Sawgrass and their distributors a CARTEL but I surely have. In looking back not only do they fit the definition of a cartel to a "T" but in actuality it is kind in comparison to what they should be called.
> 
> It should not be your responsibility to get Sawgrass to replace the printer unless you bought it from Sawgrass directly. That is the responsibility of your vendor. They do not replace it - walk.


 
I don't blame it on the distributors, they are stuck with this problem too.

When my 7000 went dead I replaced it with the smaller GXe3300n for $200. bucks and Sawgrass gave me 4 cartridges for free. If it goes dead within 12 months you get it replaced for free. It's the new throw away, but nothing is better than the RICOH. If you need bigger prints your distributor can supply them or I bet a lot of us users might start selling the bigger prints we need.
It's a good way to use it before it expires.

I truly believe it's the ink and I'll tell you why.
When my last of a half dozen c30's went bad I wanted the Ricoh 7000 but there were none available so I bought the GX5050n in Sept 09. In March 2010 I bought a new 7000 and turned my gx5050 into my everyday printer for paper and shipping labels. My GX5050 is now a little over 2 years old (and nobody jinx it) and it prints like a champ. I didn't like it for Sublimation anyway cause they didn't have a power driver for it at the time.

That's my 2 cents, buy the 3030 and you could replace it every year if you have to.

I'm sure Ricoh and Sawgrass are gonna fix this issue.


----------



## jjsmalls08

thanks for the info babz. I'll be taking that into consideration.
-jjsmalls08


----------



## Riderz Ready

babz said:


> I don't blame it on the distributors, they are stuck with this problem too.
> 
> 
> I truly believe it's the ink and I'll tell you why.
> When my last of a half dozen c30's went bad I wanted the Ricoh 7000 but there were none available so I bought the GX5050n in Sept 09. In March 2010 I bought a new 7000 and turned my gx5050 into my everyday printer for paper and shipping labels. My GX5050 is now a little over 2 years old (and nobody jinx it) and it prints like a champ. I didn't like it for Sublimation anyway cause they didn't have a power driver for it at the time.
> 
> 
> I'm sure Ricoh and Sawgrass are gonna fix this issue.


This forum is great as it allows all of us to share and inform each other not only on cool product ideas but on the industry as a whole. Without the forum Sawgrass and its distributors would be unchecked in their actions. 

This is not a recent issue and has played out for many many months and the distributors are as much at fault as Sawgrass, maybe more so. Lets flip this around for a comparison. Let say I decided to use a manufacture other than Vapor for shirts. I start selling the shirts and find out from customers the shirts are falling apart. What would I or anyone else on this forum do? We would all stop selling the shirt. We would not get on forums shuffling our feet with multiple excuses on why the shirts fell apart all the while continuing to sell the shirts month after month after month. Put simply it would be unethical. Look at the start date of this thread - almost one year ago. Would you continue to sell a shirt that falls apart for a year after knowing there is a problem?

The critical point which I will continue to scream from the highest peak is Ricoh and Epson have NOTHING to do with failures. Your C30's clogged and died because you put low quality ink into it. The Ricoh's are dying becuase of poor quality ink and/or cartridges. Ricoh and Epson are not working with Sawgrass to resolve the issue as they have no issue. It is 100% a Sawgrass issue. Please do not fall for people on this forum trying to deflect the issue to the printers.


----------



## Conde_David

jjsmalls08 said:


> Thanks Ryderz, I am still going to see what Conde can/ will do for me as well. There has to be some better compensation for this. Had i known of the issues with the gx7000, i would never have purchased it. Thank you for your reply.
> -jjsmalls08


Please call me and let me help.


----------



## jjsmalls08

I just got off the phone with Mr. Gross of Conde Systems. He informed me that my printer WILL be replaced along with 2 sublijet cartridges of my choice. He also gave me some very helpful information with regards to the sublimation industry, also that he recommends getting Conde's extended warranty of which my sales rep will inform me on. Mr. Gross was very understanding of my situation. So all is not lost and we'll see how things go from here.
thank you,
-jjsmalls08  (relieved)


----------



## Riderz Ready

jjsmalls08 said:


> I just got off the phone with Mr. Gross of Conde Systems. He informed me that my printer WILL be replaced along with 2 sublijet cartridges of my choice. He also gave me some very helpful information with regards to the sublimation industry, also that he recommends getting Conde's extended warranty of which my sales rep will inform me on. Mr. Gross was very understanding of my situation. So all is not lost and we'll see how things go from here.
> thank you,
> -jjsmalls08  (relieved)


The power of the forum has served you well. Without it you would have a boat anchor.


----------



## Conde_David

I do my best to support our clients with or
without the forum.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Conde_David said:


> I do my best to support our clients with or
> without the forum.


Without the forum:
"I was told by Andy of Conde support that Ricoh didn't make any replacement parts for my printer and that it would have to be replaced. My sales rep Michelle who was very helpful gave me the number to call Sawgrass to see if they would replace it being that it was just out of warranty. (only by 2 weeks though.) the bottom line with my situation is that Sawgrass won't replace my printer because it's out of warranty"

With the forum:
"I just got off the phone with Mr. Gross of Conde Systems. He informed me that my printer WILL be replaced along with 2 sublijet cartridges of my choice."


----------



## Conde_David

The sales rep notified me of our warranty
situation. She asked me to review it and
it was straight forward. The decision was
made right away. I do wait for Sawgrass
to turn down replacing the printer.

Thanks for your post.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Your more than welcome and I am sure you join in the commitment to provide current and possible future clients the facts which include:

1. Ricoh was heavily marketed as the solution for those people who did not use their printers every day thus eliminating the issue of Sawgrass inks clogging Epson printers. 
2. Reports of Ricohs failing go back almost a year without any true action or explanation by Sawgrass as to why all the failures.
3. Post starting from early January 2011 claim that "the issue is behind us".

The whole Ricoh issue is like listening to a political debate where there is so much garbage being tossed around that it is difficult to separate the truth from the feet shuffling which does nothing but benefit the politicians. People who read this thread from the beginning and the other related threads can judge for themselves.


----------



## ladyjn13

Epson printers don't clog with Epson inks and it appears that Ricoh printers don't clog with their inks either. So there's really is no incentive for the manufactures to correct a non-issue with their printers using their inks.

The problem is and always has been with the inferior quality of the Sawgrass supplied inks. Lucky for us, both our GX7000 units died while still under warranty. We just received a new printer from Sawgrass because Ricoh would not replace it with a new unit. They no longer have any new units in their warehouse, because they discontinued making the printer.

I advise all GX7000 users that are still in the first year of ownership to purchase an extended warranty. Cause it's not if the unit will break but when. Hopefully, it will die while you are still covered.

By the way, David Gross helped us get a resolution with our unit although we did not purchase it from Conde. We are Conde customers, having purchased a Geo Knight Hat press, paper, etc. but not thie printer. *Thanks David!*


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> Your more than welcome and I am sure you join in the commitment to provide current and possible future clients the facts which include:
> 
> *1. Ricoh was heavily marketed as the solution for those people who did not use their printers every day thus eliminating the issue of Sawgrass inks clogging Epson printers.*
> 2. Reports of Ricohs failing go back almost a year without any true action or explanation by Sawgrass as to why all the failures.
> 3. Post starting from early January 2011 claim that "the issue is behind us".
> 
> The whole Ricoh issue is like listening to a political debate where there is so much garbage being tossed around that it is difficult to separate the truth from the feet shuffling which does nothing but benefit the politicians. People who read this thread from the beginning and the other related threads can judge for themselves.


Even though vendors claimed that the GX7000 is a printer that doesn't have to be used often (which we now know is false) there is another issue for new users.

If the Ricoh GX7000 didn't have the issue of dying prematurely I still have difficulty with this being product being pushed hard onto new sublimation customers that have no existing business or are hobbyists. 

Looking back at many of the postings here in this thread, even if the printers did hold up, it can be seen that based on the usage of the printer that many are reporting ... it will take a _long time_ for their sales to pay back the cost of the printer. The expected lack of sales until one gets firmly established over a decent period of time doesn't seem to be a concern of those pushing this stuff.

It might make sense to those already in the sublimation business and established to have chosen it (GX7000) as they have immediate revenue capabilities and can amortize the cost much more quickly. 

If you look at the posts some of these folks had the printer a year or longer before it died and still didn't sell enough in gross sales to cover the GX7000 printer and inks purchase costs.

The GXe3300n is a lot less cost risk but most selling Tshirts know this is too small of a format, and the high pressure sales tactics and mis-information used to steer new users away from the WF1100 and to the GX7000 is just very near sighted short term $$$ gain vs. long term concern for the new user to be _successful_. 

But in the long run they (many sublimation vendors) are all going look back and realize that this hard upsell tactic only caused 2 things to happen.

1. Users leave the sublimation business.

or

2. Users leave the Sawgrass sublimation business.


----------



## ladyjn13

mgparrish said:


> But in the long run they (many sublimation vendors) are all going look back and realize that this hard upsell tactic only caused 2 things to happen.
> 
> 1. Users leave the sublimation business.
> 
> or
> 
> 2. Users leave the Sawgrass sublimation business.


*We chose door #2*

This has proven to be the best decision, cause Cobra Ink solutions rock!!!


----------



## bs30269

My RICHO GX 7000 died yesterday. While printing the image there were 1/2 inch "grayish/blue" horizontal lines; the printer died after printing about 1/3 of the image. I called my sublimation supplier and described the problem and was immediately told "you need a new printer". Naturally, my warranty is not valid. My invoice date was Sept 21, 2010, and died Sept 26, 2011. (Oops out of warranty 5 days) Actually the printer was "set-up" and registered on Sept 30, 2010. I have had vertually no problems with the GX 7000 until about two weeks ago when my reds began printing out as pinks. I thought I would try my sublimation supplier's ICC profile, it was installed and colors back to normal. 

The GX 7000 has worked beautifully for me this past year and I have been able to diversify my product line and increase my sales with sublimating on "high performance" sportswear. However spending $1,000 dollars per year for a desktop printer makes me pause before "jumping back in" (trick me once shame on you, trick me twice shame on me). To price this machine as a disposable cost just doesn't make sense.

Does anyone on this forum know of a desktop sublimation printer out there that can "compare" with the GX 7000?


----------



## Conde_David

I may be able to help with getting the printer replaced.
Please contact me.


----------



## mgparrish

bs30269 said:


> My RICHO GX 7000 died yesterday. While printing the image there were 1/2 inch "grayish/blue" horizontal lines; the printer died after printing about 1/3 of the image. I called my sublimation supplier and described the problem and was immediately told "you need a new printer". Naturally, my warranty is not valid. My invoice date was Sept 21, 2010, and died Sept 26, 2011. (Oops out of warranty 5 days) Actually the printer was "set-up" and registered on Sept 30, 2010. I have had vertually no problems with the GX 7000 until about two weeks ago when my reds began printing out as pinks. I thought I would try my sublimation supplier's ICC profile, it was installed and colors back to normal.
> 
> The GX 7000 has worked beautifully for me this past year and I have been able to diversify my product line and increase my sales with sublimating on "high performance" sportswear. However spending $1,000 dollars per year for a desktop printer makes me pause before "jumping back in" (trick me once shame on you, trick me twice shame on me). To price this machine as a disposable cost just doesn't make sense.
> 
> *Does anyone on this forum know of a desktop sublimation printer out there that can "compare" with the GX 7000?*


.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began

With CIS installed, inks, and waste tank add-on

or

Straight from Epson and use your own CIS or refillable carts.

Epson WorkForce 1100 Inkjet Printer - Product Information - Epson America, Inc.

If you go through the threads here you will find it is a very reliable and popular printer. 

Pssst .... AND YOU DON"T HAVE TO USE $$$ SAWGRASS INKS


----------



## mgparrish

And yet another 2 dead printers to the body count.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t166089.html#post986576


----------



## lalmeida

Same thing happens to us they replaced twice now I have not garanties i don't recommend Ricoh


----------



## bs30269

bs30269 said:


> My RICHO GX 7000 died yesterday. While printing the image there were 1/2 inch "grayish/blue" horizontal lines; the printer died after printing about 1/3 of the image. I called my sublimation supplier and described the problem and was immediately told "you need a new printer". Naturally, my warranty is not valid. My invoice date was Sept 21, 2010, and died Sept 26, 2011. (Oops out of warranty 5 days) Actually the printer was "set-up" and registered on Sept 30, 2010. I have had vertually no problems with the GX 7000 until about two weeks ago when my reds began printing out as pinks. I thought I would try my sublimation supplier's ICC profile, it was installed and colors back to normal.
> 
> The GX 7000 has worked beautifully for me this past year and I have been able to diversify my product line and increase my sales with sublimating on "high performance" sportswear. However spending $1,000 dollars per year for a desktop printer makes me pause before "jumping back in" (trick me once shame on you, trick me twice shame on me). To price this machine as a disposable cost just doesn't make sense.
> 
> Does anyone on this forum know of a desktop sublimation printer out there that can "compare" with the GX 7000?


FOLLOW UP: Out of panic and frustration I over reacted to initial contact, Sawgrass is honoring the warranty on my GX7000. I received support from my sublimation supplier and they are very much appreciated.


----------



## Riderz Ready

People have had incredible responses after they have posted on this forum. Ups to Rodney and t-shirtforums.com.

If it was not for this forum the Sawgrass Cartel would be unchecked on this issue.


----------



## mgparrish

Another one 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t163735.html#post987524


----------



## lrsbranding

Cobra Inks has high temp cartridges for the Ricoh 7000. Has anyone used them and had a breakdown? If I'm using Sawgrass now and switch to Cobra do I need to change all the cartridges at once and flush the system or can I replace as needed?


----------



## Riderz Ready

Unless it is the actually the same ink rebranded you would need to flush the ink out of the Ricoh for several reasons. The first is colors. Ink by different manufacatures print differently which is why you have different profiles as well. Second at least on the Epson side, Sawgrass ink is very abrasive which is why it not only clogs printers but also destroys printheads. To lessen the effects of this you want to completely flush the ink from the system. Richard at Cobra would most likely be your best resource.


----------



## lrsbranding

Thanks Riderz Ready. I'll call Richard on Monday. We have 2 Epsons, an 810 and 9100, and the Ricoh 7000. I don't understand why the Ricoh costs so much more but I do know I don't need a $1000.00 door stop. What is sad is that we need to get more ink for the 7000 and we can buy a new Epson 1100 with ink from Cobra for less than Sawgrass ink alone. Heck...if the Epson only lasts as long as 1 fill of ink I still come out ahead. I went with the Ricoh because I was told it had a higher tolerance to sitting idle, but no one mentioned the meltdown. Wish I had seen these posts first. Is the problem with the Epsons head drying and clogging only with high temp inks? We have the Black Max set up in the 1900 and it sat in the hot garage unused for months. When we turned it on it worked perfectly and still works great to this day.


----------



## Riderz Ready

This forum is a great tool for people to learn - without it Sawgrass and its Cartel members would run amuck. There are post going back to early January claiming the issue with Ricoh 7000 melting down was resolved. I think the theory is if you say it enough times people will start to believe it. The issue with printers clogging is based almost entirely on the ink. We used an Epson 9800 with J-Teck dye sub ink and it never clogged. When we upgraded to a Mutoh we left the Epson up so we could reprint orders that were previously printed on the Epson. We did this for 5 months printing only once every three weeks and only had a partial head clog once which was resolved with a light clean. 

Surely you reduce your chance of head clogs by printing frequently but without question Sawgrass ink, especially Artainium and Sublijet, are much more prone to clog and destroy print heads. They have gotten away with a great PR promo of implicating the Epson printers. It all back fired when the Cartel announced to the deskktop world that by using a Ricoh printer you no longer had to print frequently. The masses swallowed this hook, line and sinker. It really made little sense to me as if you were going to print infrequently how can you justify a $1,300 set up Unfortunately we all now know the truth as the Sawgrass Cartel has had to back track on their sales pitch thanks to t-shirt forums as without it none of them would be held accountable.


----------



## MiAdvent

Well I bought my Ricoh GX7000 about 2 years ago...all of a sudden the other day it stopped responding and gave me an ERR 976. So I called Ricoh and they can send a tech out but they may or may not be able to fix it but it may be an ink issue. Contacted Sawgrass and they said it could be an issue with the print head not their "INK". They said if I replace the GX7000 they can send me 2 ink cartridges. I contacted Conde and since my issue is not ERR 990 I may be out of luck. I had an issue in the past with a Magenta Sublijet Sawgrass ink purchased from Conde that leaked and Sawgrass replaced it for me. 

I don't print often I just purchased 2 new ink cartridges that I needed to load before the error. I think it is and ink issue because that "replaced" empty magenta is leaking in the box now. I guess I need to check to see how many magenta's I've loaded.

Well honestly sublimation has been a huge overhead for me and now I'm faced with the loss of a printer and $220 in ink. Not sure what I will do but it seems like I may have to give up this part of the business for now.


----------



## Conde_David

976 is a rare error and could be due to a cart.
It means air in the ink line or air leak in the
Capping station.
I am out of town at the SGIA show.
Call me on Monday.


----------



## dizzy1949

It seems, for what I have found out, that the clocking of the ink seems to be the direct reason of the not turning on of the printer. 
Up to now we just cleand the heads with ultrasone baths and than started up the printer again.

It worked. The printer was not damaged permanently but just stopped the starting up proces automatically.


----------



## freebird1963

assuming you meant ultrasonic bath but how do you do that ?
THanks
Mark


----------



## American logoZ

dizzy1949 said:


> It seems, for what I have found out, that the clocking of the ink seems to be the direct reason of the not turning on of the printer.
> Up to now we just cleand the heads with ultrasone baths and than started up the printer again.
> 
> It worked. The printer was not damaged permanently but just stopped the starting up proces automatically.


I missed a few pages of posts which I'll go back and catch up on...but does your post mean that you have successfully cleaned the Ricoh and got it going again? Can you offer more details? We use an ultrasonic cleaner to flow test & service fuel injectors - and it'd be great if I could work similar magic on my 3300.

Okay, now I've read this entire thread. My first 3300 died in September 2010 http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t128167.html - my post was the first one I noticed on here about dying Ricohs. I thought the issue was resolved in January/February 2011, so you can imagine my surprise when my second 3300 died this Fall. 

As for all the ink dates & leave it on & turn it off advice - I've tried them all. First printer, I left it on. Second printer, I turned it off. Both printers, I used unexpired inks. First printer I didn't know to use Conde ICC because no one told me. Second printer I used Conde's ICC profiles. (Gotta talk directly to David @ Conde.) I now see where I was suppose to print daily.... WHY THE HECK ISN'T SOMEONE KEEPING USERS INFORMED OF ALL THE RULE CHANGES?! And please don't make fun of how infrequently I print - that's exactly why I purchased the Ricoh. It was suppose to be able to sit idle without clogging issues. 

Is there a way to bring these printers back to life, even for their originally intended use with OEM inks? So much waste!


----------



## koigal

My Ricoh GX7000 was working fine - just installed 2 new sublijet ink cartridges that I just purchased. The printer registered both cartridges i installed as being "full". I returned to the pc to send a print job and in the time it took me to go sit down, bam - the printer died. Basically it wont stay on. It will come up briefly and then about 2 seconds later it will die. It is out of the original warranty period...so am I out the 1000$ for the printer PLUS the $300 plus I just spent on the 3 new cartridges? ! Yikes !


----------



## Riderz Ready

koigal said:


> My Ricoh GX7000 was working fine - just installed 2 new sublijet ink cartridges that I just purchased. The printer registered both cartridges i installed as being "full". I returned to the pc to send a print job and in the time it took me to go sit down, bam - the printer died. Basically it wont stay on. It will come up briefly and then about 2 seconds later it will die. It is out of the original warranty period...so am I out the 1000$ for the printer PLUS the $300 plus I just spent on the 3 new cartridges? ! Yikes !


Impossible - GX7000 problems were all fixed back in January according to this thread.


----------



## koigal

Lol - I'll tell that to my printer. My dead, sad, expensive doorstop of a printer with its shiny new ink cartridges... I'm sure that will fix it right up! :-( (Wonder if that will also work on my son's goldfish?)


----------



## Conde_David

Are those the first set of inks installed in the
printer?


----------



## koigal

No - not the first set. The printer had been working just fine. I ran out of yellow and magenta so I ordered brand new cartridges and just got them in and installed them. The unit powered on - registered that my cartridges were new and full and then...welll...it powered itself off and now won't stay on.


----------



## Conde_David

Do you know the date codes on the old inks?


----------



## Riderz Ready

koigal said:


> Lol - I'll tell that to my printer. My dead, sad, expensive doorstop of a printer with its shiny new ink cartridges... I'm sure that will fix it right up! :-( (Wonder if that will also work on my son's goldfish?)


Way too funny!


----------



## tshrtman2000

exact same thing happened to me and my inks were good


----------



## koigal

The ink I just installed is the same type and manufacturer (sawgrass sublijet) as the last cartridges that were in the printer. The use by date on the yellow is 5-16-12 and the use by date for the magenta is 7-6-12.


----------



## American logoZ

Conde_David said:


> Do you know the date codes on the old inks?


David, 
Can you please provide some insight as to why you ask this question? Do we need to check the new inks that are being sent to us for clues as to whether they will or might kill our Ricohs? I was under the impression that mid-2011 inks were okay, and surely if they are recently purchased and installed they wouldn't be killers....? Or has Sawgrass not figured it all out yet?

I have to make a decision about my next dye sub setup. If there is a way to help ensure success with Ricoh, that'd be nice info to have. Is it old Ricohs that die? New ones? Is it old ink that are killers? New ink? Ink between certain dates? Certain lots? Is it dependent on the number of prints sent through a machine? The number of prints within a certain timeframe? A minimum number of prints each day/week/month? Or is it truly a crap shoot?


----------



## Conde_David

Here are my thoughts:

Once a printer ran older inks, it could fail.
Most failed printer have little or no use.
Usually it fails after replacing carts. My guess
is that this puts stress on the printhead.

If a printer never ran old inks, I believe the
chances of failure are low and in line with running
Ricoh brand ink.

I do not know when the carts changed but
I believe late 2011 carts are safe for new printers.

I also recommend using your printer regularly.

Most of the failures that I have seen are
with printers that have very few prints.

I will do my best to help anyone concerned
or that has a failed printer.

Call me as needed.


----------



## Riderz Ready

American logoZ said:


> David,
> Can you please provide some insight as to why you ask this question? Do we need to check the new inks that are being sent to us for clues as to whether they will or might kill our Ricohs? I was under the impression that mid-2011 inks were okay, and surely if they are recently purchased and installed they wouldn't be killers....? Or has Sawgrass not figured it all out yet?
> 
> I have to make a decision about my next dye sub setup. If there is a way to help ensure success with Ricoh, that'd be nice info to have. Is it old Ricohs that die? New ones? Is it old ink that are killers? New ink? Ink between certain dates? Certain lots? Is it dependent on the number of prints sent through a machine? The number of prints within a certain timeframe? A minimum number of prints each day/week/month? Or is it truly a crap shoot?


No one will ever know the truth outside the Cartel. The truth may lead those involved to being exposed to compensating people who suffered losses. Let us also be real clear how many times this problem as been claimed to be fixed - here are just a few.

Janaury 5th
". . .The Ricoh failure rate is very low as we
we have sold the bulk of the Ricoh printers.

The failure rate at this point has continued
to decrease. 

I am confident that the issue is now behind us..."

Feb 19th

". . . expect very few failures in the future. . ."

June 18th
" . . .Failures now have slowed to a trickle. . ."

July 20th
" . . .New installations will not have this issue.
Sawgrass did address the issue. . . 
"

July 22nd
" . . I will look up the date Sawgrass
announced that the issue was fixed.. ."

July 22nd
". . . In short, Sawgrass with Ricoh's help, identified
the cause of the printhead/main board failure.. . "

July 26th
". . . will look up the date Sawgrass
announced that the issue was fixed.. ."

Most likely many more of the same but this should get the point across.


----------



## American logoZ

David, 
Thank you for your patience. I don't AT ALL like SG's lack of candor, and I don't personally hold distributors harmless in this fiasco, but I do appreciate that you do not completely hide from the problem as other distributors have done. 

This seems like a no-brainer to me: Either this Ricoh dying problem is relatively small, in which case it should not take a significant amount of resources to treat us well as you work it out; OR the problem is too large to be able to "eat" in which case a recall should be immediate (or at least sales stopped) and this experiment should go back in-house until it's truly ready for public release. But neither of these things is happening. Very puzzling to me. So much bad press. Is there really enough money being made that the short-term profits are worth the long-term damage?

I would love to crawl inside your head to take a glimpse of your dark thoughts with regard to SG and why-oh-why Conde remains loyal to the Ricoh process. I know someone will pipe in and say follow the money - and I would expect that to be the case in any business - and that is exactly why each of us must determine our costs and whether continuing with the Ricoh adventure/experiment is cost effective for us....Conde included. 

The relatively low entry costs to the Ricoh systems make them attractive to small and part-time sub operations. However, having to print frequently makes it seem silly to not go with a WF1100 ($99) and a CIS system. *If you must print regularly (aka daily) anyway, what is the advantage to the Ricoh system?* The Ricoh printers are more expensive; the ink carts used in Ricohs are more expensive than bulk ink systems available for Epsons; and Ricohs are disposable whereas Epson parts are available, the problems with the Epson system have a history which includes many available fixes, and the Epsons can usually be brought back to life and even restored to OEM operation if you'd like. 

If my reasoning is off, I'm sure someone will let me know.


----------



## lrsbranding

I'm curious if Ricoh will ever take Sawgrass out back and beat them silly. This has to have some negative impact on Ricoh. And your right Riderz, I doubt we will ever know the truth. I wonder if Sawgrass really knows what happened. I have been the manufactures rep. when some idiot somewhere makes a bad decision on something and it snowballs out of control. The clean up and denial will last a long time. I want to give Conde David a personal thanks for all the help he has given to people. I have been between the end user and the corporate cover up. It's not easy. Most of the time you don't know much more than the next guy. Thanks David...


----------



## Riderz Ready

My personal opinion is there surely is more people than the people at Sawgrass that know exactly what has happened and what is happening. Yes, follow the money! The patents are coming to a close on the Epson ink technology thus the Sawgrass Cartel is in full press to move people off a technology that they will no longer be able to price gouge simply because a printer is a particular size. Used the analogy before. Imagine going to a gas station in your family car and paying $10.00 a gallon when a person in an Excursion pulls up and pays $1.00 a gallon for the same gas? Be a little upset? Demand changes? You bet we would but when their is a monoply that is controlled by a manufacture and a very select group of distributors what is one to do?

It is one of the key reasons there has not been a recall or even a release to current owners that a problem exist and worse continued to be sold to unexpecting buyers. As posted above I believe the theory the Cartel has is if they tell you the problem is fixed over and over again people will start believe it. 

They have no real motive to recall, inform or stop selling a product they have their future placed upon as you have little choice. The ink, the price, etc is basically the exact same thing regardless who you buy it from. That is why they fit the definition of a Cartel spot on. It is a very select few that control distribution, pricing, etc. You basically have NO CHOICES.


----------



## American logoZ

Riderz Ready said:


> They have no real motive to recall, inform or stop selling a product they have their future placed upon as you have little choice.quote]
> 
> Here's a motive: It's not possible for us to keep using the Ricoh system because it quits working and can't be fixed. That makes it seem as though SG has "their future placed upon" a pretty shaky foundation.
> 
> Either they made some money from the entry level guys who will now go away - or the entry level guys will switch to another system. Granted, there are few options: laser, large format, and Epson seem to be the most popular. SG wins only if we go Epson. Even then, Epson means a black market, an overseas market, glimpses of a US market from time to time, and if it's true that patents will run out in a couple of years then an open market.
> 
> There may be a flaw in your theory. If SG wants to keep me hooked on Ricohs, they're going to need to keep passing out free printers until they truly find a fix. Although they seem to be passing out cheap printers (in some circumstances) - they ain't free, refilling each replacement ain't cheap, and being suddenly shut down with orders to fill ain't making me love the idea of growing the dye sub side of my biz.
> 
> HOWEVER, if they have something new to introduce in the next several months, that shakes things up a bit. I'm not ready to believe that SG is betting their future on these Ricoh systems. They've got some new users signed up & hooked on dye sub...what's next?


----------



## mgparrish

American logoZ said:


> Riderz Ready said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have no real motive to recall, inform or stop selling a product they have their future placed upon as you have little choice.quote]
> 
> Here's a motive: It's not possible for us to keep using the Ricoh system because it quits working and can't be fixed. That makes it seem as though SG has "their future placed upon" a pretty shaky foundation.
> 
> Either they made some money from the entry level guys who will now go away - or the entry level guys will switch to another system. Granted, there are few options: laser, large format, and Epson seem to be the most popular. SG wins only if we go Epson. Even then, Epson means a black market, an overseas market, glimpses of a US market from time to time, and if it's true that patents will run out in a couple of years then an open market.
> 
> There may be a flaw in your theory. If SG wants to keep me hooked on Ricohs, they're going to need to keep passing out free printers until they truly find a fix. Although they seem to be passing out cheap printers (in some circumstances) - they ain't free, refilling each replacement ain't cheap, and being suddenly shut down with orders to fill ain't making me love the idea of growing the dye sub side of my biz.
> 
> HOWEVER, if they have something new to introduce in the next several months, that shakes things up a bit. I'm not ready to believe that SG is betting their future on these Ricoh systems. They've got some new users signed up & hooked on dye sub...what's next?
> 
> 
> 
> There may be another variable. I may not be up to date on the Ricoh GX7000 replacement model, but some were claiming the printer is no longer manufactured and the SG replacements were refurbs. There was one company in the UK touting a replacement and was even showing the new model number for "Sept. delivery" ... but no sight of that printer yet.
> 
> So could be the printer dead ends (at least the larger Ricoh).
> 
> Would be interesting to know if anyone has updated information on the GX7000 replacement, or if Ricoh will only continue with the smaller one.
Click to expand...


----------



## Riderz Ready

What percent of desktop dye sub people read this or any other forum? Maybe 5% and I would bet that is high. The vast majority of the current users and potential new clients have no clue, zero, that this is going on. This allows them to continue to crank Ricoh printers out the door. Can you even imagine the amount of loss sales if they shut this down until they figured out what was wrong? Realize this is now a 1+ year old issue. Without this forum you can almost be assured that Sawgrass Cartel would still not even be admitting there was an issue. This forum has allowed people to at least share their experience so they understand there is in fact a real issue that the Cartel can no longer avoid. It will never lead to Sawgrass and their Cartel to be honest about the whole thing as they are still shuffling their feet so they can avoid exposure. 

Realize Sawgrass "giving away" ink cost them virtually nothing. This is a company that is very rigid and will protect the desktop market at all cost not with innovative products and fair pricing but with patent attorneys. Realize if Sawgrass was wanting the best for the desktop market they would sell you their Sublim ink which is much higher quality and greatly reduces clogging out Epsons. So why do they hold back Sublim ink from you but sell it to a wide format user? I have asked this question many times and not once has anyone from the Cartel answered it.


----------



## jemmyell

I find it very interesting that switching to a workforce 1100 with bulk Artainium inks is never mentioned or offered as a replacement solution. A seminar I attended claimed that the SubliJet Power driver was the answer to color issues and that you need a 'Phd in color management' to use ICC profiles and Artainium.

I never like to be told I am too stupid to manage my own life or business.

ArTainium - ArTainium UV+ for the Epson WorkForce 1100 System

If the WF 1100 dies it should cost you $99 or so to just move the bulk ink system to a new printer. Since this a 13 x 19 capable printer I see no reason for the Ricoh. If it comes down to disposable printers let them cost $99 (street price of a WF 1100)

-James


----------



## mgparrish

jemmyell said:


> I find it very interesting that switching to a workforce 1100 with bulk Artainium inks is never mentioned or offered as a replacement solution. A seminar I attended claimed that the SubliJet Power driver was the answer to color issues and that you need a 'Phd in color management' to use ICC profiles and Artainium.
> 
> I never like to be told I am too stupid to manage my own life or business.
> 
> ArTainium - ArTainium UV+ for the Epson WorkForce 1100 System
> 
> If the WF 1100 dies it should cost you $99 or so to just move the bulk ink system to a new printer. Since this a 13 x 19 capable printer I see no reason for the Ricoh. If it comes down to disposable printers let them cost $99 (street price of a WF 1100)
> 
> -James


Adding to your comments.

1. The Artanium solution for the WF1100 has a "new" black which is called "Jet Black". The other Artanium offerings were using a black that was more like a purplish black, I call "eggplant black".

2. You don't have to buy an accessory to make this printer 13 x 19. The Ricoh "option" to be able to use 13 x 19 is *more expensive* than what the entire WF1100 printer costs if you find the WF1100 on sale!

3. If Epson comes out with a _equivalent_ new 4 color model and you have Sawgrass SubliJet, then you have to wait for SG to update Power Driver for the new model. ICC profiles can _usually_ work very well on the new Epson 4 color models going from 4 color model to 4 color model as long as you keep the same inks.

4. If I have the need for warranty replacement Epson (for the desktop) won't haggle with you and send you back to Sawgrass. They (Epson) will send you a quick exchange unit for your printer.

5. Speed of the GX7000 is highly overated. By the time you have "lint rollered", stuffed the shirt with paper and/or a pad to eliminate creases, aligned the transfer, then dwelled, a lot of time is consumed. *Tshirt production time does not equal printing time from the printer.*

On hard goods like mugs are tiles printing time is really insignificant due to longer dwell requirements.


----------



## American logoZ

"Realize Sawgrass "giving away" ink cost them virtually nothing"
Which is why I don't understand why they aren't throwing a few resources at the failures in order to keep us happy until this is fixed or Plan B is ready.



jemmyell said:


> I find it very interesting that switching to a workforce 1100 with bulk Artainium inks is never mentioned or offered as a replacement solution.
> 
> This is what I'm trying to get SG/Conde to do now. Instead of me purchasing printer #3, just make me a deal on some Artainium and let me set up my printer. The ink will cost them some chump change - and it will make me a happier camper. I would rather be a part-time printer who is pouring Art inks down the drain with wasted daily prints than a part-time printer who is pouring more expensive ink out daily AND tossing a printer into the landfill every 6 months. They're not wanting to do this though. Wonder why?
> 
> Anyone remember reading some hints & innuendos in other threads recently? New processes? White ink? Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm trying to remain positive - so I'm going to convince myself that a Plan B announcement is around the corner. With my luck, I'll be 102 and still waiting for a magic answer.


----------



## jemmyell

Lol, please don't use that color to mark up. I have problems with my eyes and it is VERY hard for me to read text in that color.

Thanks,

-James


----------



## Riderz Ready

The issue that desktop users face is there really is not a perfect solution due to the entire market virtually controlled by one company. Surely you could get ink from China and then would have to someone create a ICC profile for you which is not inexpensive by any means. Although Epsons are much less expensive the issue is you still are forced to use Sawgrass ink. The ink they offer the desktop community is not high quality ink and will without doubt cause clogging and frustration. Surely you can reduce this by printing at least a nozzle check everyday but the ink is prone to clogging and destroying printheads. 

For the small and/or casual dye sub person they are inbetween a rock and a hard place. It is just amazing how much the entire dye sub world changes when you have a 42" printer.


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> The issue that desktop users face is there really is not a perfect solution due to the entire market virtually controlled by one company. Surely you could get ink from China and then would have to someone create a ICC profile for you which is not inexpensive by any means. Although Epsons are much less expensive the issue is you still are forced to use Sawgrass ink. The ink they offer the desktop community is not high quality ink and will without doubt cause clogging and frustration. Surely you can reduce this by printing at least a nozzle check everyday but the ink is prone to clogging and destroying printheads.
> 
> For the small and/or casual dye sub person they are inbetween a rock and a hard place. It is just amazing how much the entire dye sub world changes when you have a 42" printer.


I know a few people with the right equipment that can make ICC profiles for a couple hundred bucks. Top grade profile equipment is expensive, but not necessary for a simple ink consumer to go out and buy the equipment, just get a a profile made.

And TOG's ink and Cobras profiles were only made with equipment that was like $400 or so. I peaked inside the Cobra file and I know the author of the TOG profile.

I have been using Artanium for 6 years since the C86, then to C88, C88+, and now WF1100, never had a printhead fail. Clogs occur, but I have always been able to resolve them. My printers have been replaced due to other reasons, waste pads finally fill up, paper feed issues etc. My C88+ was fine, I just chucked it when I upgraded to a larger format WF1100. But then again I am very religious on making sure printing is frequent enough.

Not saying the Artanium ink is the best in the world, at least you get a year warranty on the Epson and after that you don't need to cry if the printer goes bad, as others mention it is "disposable".


----------



## Riderz Ready

Just an FYI - the effect ink has on printheads relates directly to how much one prints. If you are hobbiest or dye sub is not your primary source of income ink may not have little noticeable effect on a printhead. If dye sub is your primary source of income and you print on-going 5+ hours a day ink will have a significant effect on a printheads life. 

Most high quality ink vendors will in fact recommend you replace a printhead if you were using Artainium before installing their ink.


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> Just an FYI - the effect ink has on printheads relates directly to how much one prints. If you are hobbiest or dye sub is not your primary source of income ink may not have little noticeable effect on a printhead. If dye sub is your primary source of income and you print on-going 5+ hours a day ink will have a significant effect on a printheads life.
> 
> Most high quality ink vendors will in fact recommend you replace a printhead if you were using Artainium before installing their ink.


To your point.

For those in the on-going 5+ hours a day no Epson Desktop should be considered, or no Ricoh solution should be considered. 

Those ink volumes justify a >42 inch solution and along with that >42 inch sub ink prices ... and the opportunity to not use SG or Artanium inks. Not to mention the duty cycle of most desktop printers is not for full time printing use.


----------



## Riderz Ready

mgparrish said:


> To your point.
> 
> For those in the on-going 5+ hours a day no Epson Desktop should be considered, or no Ricoh solution should be considered.
> 
> Those ink volumes justify a >42 inch solution and along with that >42 inch sub ink prices ... and the opportunity to not use SG or Artanium inks. Not to mention the duty cycle of most desktop printers is not for full time printing use.


It is a clear day and the sky is blue . . . would you like to argue this as well?


----------



## American logoZ

mgparrish & Riderz Ready: are you siblings? I'm betting that you're twins, and you work across the hallway from one another.


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> It is a clear day and the sky is blue . . . would you like to argue this as well?


I wasn't arguing with you. You are correct on the head life being a function of ink volume flowing through them.

I was just pointing out additional considerations for others benefit, I didn't pick out any of your comments.

It's not so late though we could pick something to argue over if you like, I'm game.


----------



## jfish

Based on what I have researched with these printers VS Epsons like the R1400, R1900, 4800/4880 etc I would go epson any day. I know how to handle and deal with some clogged nozzles and all the other minor fixes with Epsons, but really all it really end up being with epsons is just clogged nozzles. And I can get any single part for an epson for very little unless its the head. 

The Ricohs seem waaay to force feed to consumers I have a feeling its more of a high mark-up printer for the dealers as I know epson dealers dont make **** on their inks and many of the printers either. I have no hard feelings towards any of the Ricoh dealers etc but I think the support on these right after the 1yr mark is absolutely horrible and If I had the same issues as those on this post I would NEVER buy a Ricoh again EVER. I think there should be an extended warranty program offered to those with these issues. 1 year is not long enough for a printer especially at this cost and many of these aren't even used at all! Im not going to get into sawgrass as we all know they won't admit any wrong doing. 

I feel this is an issue that should be brought to a class action suit if none of these companies are willing to help anyone out at all. I know there's thousands of others with the same exact problems and many of them don't have the time or energy to try and get it fixed or warranted. 

All I know is that these customers have been scammed and thats a very poor way to run a business and these people behind this bad system with the 1Year non extendable warranty have very poor business ethics and it should be brought to light and others should be warned about buying these "Lemons" 

has ANYONE had a good experience as an end result of the post 1 year expired warranty broken Ricoh? I would like to hear if anyone has been helped out without spending over $400.00. Please let me know as I don't want to waste all my time and efforts trying to tackle this issue if its not going to be worth my time. Thanks


----------



## mgparrish

jfish said:


> Based on what I have researched with these printers VS Epsons like the R1400, R1900, 4800/4880 etc I would go epson any day. I know how to handle and deal with some clogged nozzles and all the other minor fixes with Epsons, but really all it really end up being with epsons is just clogged nozzles. And I can get any single part for an epson for very little unless its the head.
> 
> The Ricohs seem waaay to force feed to consumers I have a feeling its more of a high mark-up printer for the dealers as I know epson dealers dont make **** on their inks and many of the printers either. I have no hard feelings towards any of the Ricoh dealers etc but I think the support on these right after the 1yr mark is absolutely horrible and If I had the same issues as those on this post I would NEVER buy a Ricoh again EVER. I think there should be an extended warranty program offered to those with these issues. 1 year is not long enough for a printer especially at this cost and many of these aren't even used at all! Im not going to get into sawgrass as we all know they won't admit any wrong doing.
> 
> I feel this is an issue that should be brought to a class action suit if none of these companies are willing to help anyone out at all. I know there's thousands of others with the same exact problems and many of them don't have the time or energy to try and get it fixed or warranted.
> 
> All I know is that these customers have been scammed and thats a very poor way to run a business and these people behind this bad system with the 1Year non extendable warranty have very poor business ethics and it should be brought to light and others should be warned about buying these "Lemons"
> 
> has ANYONE had a good experience as an end result of the post 1 year expired warranty broken Ricoh? I would like to hear if anyone has been helped out without spending over $400.00. Please let me know as I don't want to waste all my time and efforts trying to tackle this issue if its not going to be worth my time. Thanks


Conde is offering an extended warranty, as I recall it is more expensive than buying a brand new WF1100 though.

As for the class action 

You hit it dead on about the printers difference in margin for the resellers.


----------



## American logoZ

From what I understand: when the Ricoh system dies during warranty, the general offer is printer replacement and 1 ink cartridge; when the Ricoh system dies after warranty, the general offer is a $150 printer replacement (may cost more for the 7000 replacement?). Ricoh & SG have an agreement for SG (or maybe their distributors?) to replace the printer during any warranty period for ink-related failures. The Ricohs come with 1 year warranty; Conde offers a 1 yr extended warranty; I have no idea what/whether other distributors offer. 

I could be waaaaay wrong though.


----------



## Riderz Ready

I would guess you are way off but maybe I am wrong. You are buying into the old "its the printers fault" that the Sawgrass Cartel members have used successfully with Epsons and now with Ricoh. You really think Ricoh is going to participate in a replacement plan with Sawgrass when it is Sawgrass ink that is ruining the printers? The Cartel will be sending you a Christmas card.


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> I would guess you are way off but maybe I am wrong. *You are buying into the old "its the printers fault" that the Sawgrass Cartel members have used successfully with Epsons and now with Ricoh.* You really think Ricoh is going to participate in a replacement plan with Sawgrass when it is Sawgrass ink that is ruining the printers? The Cartel will be sending you a Christmas card.


You didn't mention or quote the thread you are responding to so I assume your comment is based on the post directly above you?

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-22.html#post1003642

If that is the case I don't read where any opinion or statement was given indicating "buying into" any vendor claim regarding the printers being at fault. Just looks like an assumption on your part and putting words into the mouth of another.

All I read is that the poster is mentioning how they are understanding the _replacement policies_ as was possibly read in other postings here or from conversations with other. Nothing more, nothing less.

???


----------



## American logoZ

I'll rephrase. When my Ricoh died, it was 6 months old. SG replaced it. When my replacement printer died 11 mnths later, out of warranty, distributor is offering me a replacement 3300 for $150. I am being led to believe that the issue is that expired inks were run thru my printer. My research indicates that is not true. Conde and Coastal (distributors) are looking into it. 

Based on what I have read on other threads, it takes a lot of ink to get a new printer ready to print, so with replacements SG/distributors are throwing in a single ink cartridge to help defray these costs. 

When I contacted Ricoh about bad system #1, even asking about purchasing replacement parts to restore printer to oem, they said call Sawgrass, it can't be fixed, cheaper to throw away and buy a new one. When I insisted, because that's so wasteful, they repeated themselves.


----------



## jemmyell

It can't be fixed is never, ever true. It can't be fixed for a price you would be willing to pay is possible.

BUT being unwilling or unable to supply repair parts and manuals is ILLEGAL, at least in California. Has anybody explored this? There is some indication of an auto-shutdown due to a head clog. We have one report of ultrasonic bath cleaning fixing this.

More information is needed.

-James


----------



## Riderz Ready

mgparrish said:


> You didn't mention or quote the thread you are responding to so I assume your comment is based on the post directly above you?
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-22.html#post1003642
> 
> If that is the case I don't read where any opinion or statement was given indicating "buying into" any vendor claim regarding the printers being at fault. Just looks like an assumption on your part and putting words into the mouth of another.
> 
> All I read is that the poster is mentioning how they are understanding the _replacement policies_ as was possibly read in other postings here or from conversations with other. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> ???


Does the poster need you to speak for them? Try just once to get over yourself and join the real world. If the poster had an issue or question regrding my post they would reply and do not need you to speak for them. Your never ending need to have the last word on every post gets - well tiring. People here on this forum are bright people and do not need others to speak for them. 

The poster stated "Ricoh & SG have an agreement for SG (or maybe their distributors?) to replace the printer during any warranty period for ink-related failures." 

It is my opinion, which I stated may be wrong, that Ricoh has zero to do with any agreement to replace printers with Sawgrass or any distributor. This opinion is most likely was derived from the many post by the Cartel that always lump Ricoh into the problems as they have always done in the past with Epsons. To this day most people still think Epsons are at fault for clogging issues. The same thing is being done with Ricoh.

It is that simple - rest assured you will never have to read a post replying to any of your comments as it is so childish and literally embarassing at this point.


----------



## American logoZ

I would love to know if an ultrosonic cleaning would fix this problem. We flow test and rebuild/fix automotive fuel injectors all the time - so ultrasonic cleaning could be easier for me than anything else I've heard about so far.


----------



## nothappywRicoh

I am new to the forum in posting; not so much in reading. Our GX7000 croaked today with the blinking light and then shut down. We keep it on and use harvey head cleaner. Came in this morning and it was dead. Turning it on only caused it to blink and die. Seems this is typical. We have had it for almost 2 years. 

David, I sent you an email tonight. We did purchase from Conde so let me know if you can help in any way. Any help is greatly appreciated. This is the primary printer for our sublimation arm of the business.


----------



## Conde_David

Please give me a call in the morning.
Will help.


----------



## American logoZ

nothappywRicoh said:


> I am new to the forum in posting; not so much in reading. Our GX7000 croaked today with the blinking light and then shut down. We keep it on and use harvey head cleaner. Came in this morning and it was dead. Turning it on only caused it to blink and die. Seems this is typical. We have had it for almost 2 years.
> 
> David, I sent you an email tonight. We did purchase from Conde so let me know if you can help in any way. Any help is greatly appreciated. This is the primary printer for our sublimation arm of the business.


Sorry to hear this! Did you purchase the extended warranty? And it might be a pain depending on your buying habits and recordkeeping...but did you ever run expired inks? EBay inks? Have inks in the machine longer than 4 months? 6 months? 8 months? Good luck, and keep us posted!


----------



## freebird1963

In talks with a european distributor of the Ricohl/SG combo was told that they have the same issue there as here. But that the GX-7000 has been replaced over there with the GXe7700. I am waiting to find out if the issues remain with this new unit. One thing I noticed in comparing the two units is that the new unit lists its technology as Gelsprinter and GX-7000 technology as Liquid Gel 
GXe7700 GX-7000
Technology	GelSprinter™	Liquid Gel™

I couldnt find any info on this difference so was wondering if anyone knew if its the same technology with different wording or is there a difference and if so what might be coming down the line here (if there is a new US model due out) might help with the issue at hand. ?


----------



## lrsbranding

I'm curious why more people aren't asking about the ultrasonic cleaning that dizzy mentioned a week ago. Did I miss something?


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> Does the poster need you to speak for them? Try just once to get over yourself and join the real world. If the poster had an issue or question regrding my post they would reply and do not need you to speak for them. Your never ending need to have the last word on every post gets - well tiring. People here on this forum are bright people and do not need others to speak for them.
> 
> The poster stated "Ricoh & SG have an agreement for SG (or maybe their distributors?) to replace the printer during any warranty period for ink-related failures."
> 
> *I don't see anything in that statement the other poster believing that Ricoh was at fault, or where a vendor had suggested "the old its the printers fault" for the other poster to "buy into".*
> 
> *"ink-related" failures (ink is supplied by Sawgrass) as the other poster stated implies the reason the printer failed is not Ricoh's fault but Sawgrass fault.* *The poster stated opposite of what you are claiming that the other poster "believed".*
> 
> It is my opinion, which I stated may be wrong, that Ricoh has zero to do with any agreement to replace printers with Sawgrass or any distributor.
> 
> *No, that is not what you stated. *
> *This is what you stated.*
> 
> *Quote:*
> 
> "I would guess you are way off but maybe I am wrong. *You are buying into the old "its the printers fault"* that the Sawgrass Cartel members have used successfully with Epsons and now with Ricoh."
> 
> *You suggested the poster had an opinion (that didn't appear to exist) then formed an issue around it.*
> 
> 
> This opinion is most likely was derived from the many post by the Cartel that always lump Ricoh into the problems as they have always done in the past with Epsons. To this day most people still think Epsons are at fault for clogging issues. The same thing is being done with Ricoh.
> 
> *It's OK to give your own opinion, it's not OK to propose others have opinions they haven't expressed or even remotely implied. In the "Real world" I call this making things up as you go just for an opportunity to rant.*
> 
> *It OK at times to rant, but the use of hyperbole, inventing things out of thin air, or exaggerating things will not support your claims.*
> 
> It is that simple - rest assured you will never have to read a post replying to any of your comments as it is so childish and literally embarassing at this point.
> 
> *Several times you have put words in my mouth that I have never stated, or implied, then argued them, also, there are times you claim you didn't say what you said, even though it is in print for anyone to see, then argue that you didn't state that. *
> 
> 
> *I took the liberty to comment, I don't speak for others.*


******

My apologies to others.


----------



## jemmyell

lrsbranding said:


> I'm curious why more people aren't asking about the ultrasonic cleaning that dizzy mentioned a week ago. Did I miss something?


I am also very curious. I am guessing the you need to remove the print head, clean it in the ultrasonic cleaner then replace it.

BUT I cannot locate any service manual or service parts list. A formal R&R procedure would be good.

Maybe (Conde) David Gross can help with that?

-James


----------



## mgparrish

freebird1963 said:


> In talks with a european distributor of the Ricohl/SG combo was told that they have the same issue there as here. But that the GX-7000 has been replaced over there with the GXe7700. I am waiting to find out if the issues remain with this new unit. One thing I noticed in comparing the two units is that the new unit lists its technology as Gelsprinter and GX-7000 technology as Liquid Gel
> GXe7700 GX-7000
> Technology GelSprinter™ Liquid Gel™
> 
> I couldnt find any info on this difference so was wondering if anyone knew if its the same technology with different wording or is there a difference and if so what might be coming down the line here (if there is a new US model due out) might help with the issue at hand. ?


According to this website the newer printer is

"The SubliJet-R cartridges are available for the Ricoh GX5050 and GX7000 (same cartridges), the GXe3300N and the GXe7700 printers (use the same lower volume cartridges) and higher capacity cartridges will become available for the GXe7700 soon"

Ricoh Sublimation Printers - Printers*|*BMS - Sublimation & Printer Cartridges & Edible Inks

I would think if the GXe3300N carts can now go into the new 7700 printer, then to keep compatibility with the previous generation inks the underlying technology is the same.

The G500 I had with pigment inks was either the 1st or 2nd generation Ricoh, and that model was out even before the 5050, 3300N, or 7000 and those were called "gelsprinters"

Here is a link for that older model.

Ricoh Aficio G500

Interesting when I googled "GXe7700" ... the aftermarket refillable carts and inks are out already the same time the OEM stuff is.


----------



## Big Al

Cant see ultrasonic or any other cleaning curing this issue. Its not a head clog as before mine cacked out completely I managed to do a test print and it was ok in that respect. I have phoned several UK dealers on this Magic Touch's man more or less shrugged it off with a 'what do you expect' then I spoke with Charterhouse Xpres and she said they have had no reports of similar problems (liar). I am amazed that in the land of litigation (the US) something isnt being done to nail Sawgrass once and for all and open up the market. I am going to phone up magic touch tomorrow and tell them I want a refund on the leaking ruffy carts at least and not replaced as I am setting up an alternative system now.


----------



## American logoZ

I took my 3300 apart and got a few minutes of my husband's attention. Though flow testing and cleaning these heads wouldn't be a problem, that doesn't make sense. Maybe there's a clog that shorts out the circuit....but the printer is dead so we have to figure out the electrical problem. I snatched all the numbers off the board and hit the internet. Nothing. There is air in the ink tube - I don't know enough to know whether that's an issue?

I'm not a tree hugger, but it seems insanely wasteful to throw these printers out. I'm ready to cry uncle, though. I'm not an electronics whiz. Parts are not available to me. This is a shame.

If anyone wants pictures or information from the inside of this 3300, post asap. Otherwise, I'm scooping it up and headed to the dumpster.


----------



## Big Al

Come on the guy from Conde time to confess, you must know what the issue is here why do you keep beating around the bush just come out and tell us lets have a bit of honesty now. I dunno who the hell the guy is that pitched in with the ultrasonic cleaning rubbish but I guarantee thats just nonscense and I challenge them to come back on here and post a full report with pictures how they performed this miracle of engineering to revive on of these dead pieces of crap. This whole thing is one big con that needs exposing in the US courts where they have some teeth not like this stupid UK country I leave in where we get walked all over and can do Jack ****e. Am I still mad about this after spending about £400 to do a couple of hundred prints and having to chuck £250 worth of useless leaking cartridges away? You want to believe it and I am sick and tied of being told lies and reading dishonest posts about the whole situation!


----------



## Print Crazy

Ok, We purchased our GX7000 in October 2009. Was so happy with it recommended it to several people as well as Conde. Thought for sure we purchased the extended warranty seeing the major problems we had with our previous printer (and the fact we always purchase extended warranties). But apparently didn't and don't know why, although from reading this thread I am thinking it wasn't available to offer.

So last week we had the infamous 990 error called Conde and Andy walked us thru the condetv.com saga. We complied and to no avail it didn't clear. Called Andy back and told him I thought it was quit funny that we just changed out some our ink cartridges, alittle while ago, and the Cyan felt empty. He had me go thru some maintenance procedures and the printer stated we still had 39% of Cyan still available. He had me purchase a new Cyan and told me to also use a qtip with water to clean up the connection from the cartridge to the printer. We just did that. The machine came on... no 990 error but an alert that said the ink tray was getting full. Turned the machine off, moved everything back into place, went to turn it on again and NOTHING... Really... 

Cleared one bullet to be struck by another....

David I am emailing you this evening.


----------



## Big Al

Skip the piece of junk.


----------



## Conde_David

Got your email and responded.
Give me a call this morning.
Will help.


----------



## Slice

Well add another one to the list. I turned my Ricoh 7000 on today (well tried to) and it just turns back off. I purchased a new set of cartridges from Conde in October of 2011, put them in in December. Really disappointing to see all these issues and vendors not contacting people to let them know of the potential problem. Has any solution been reached with this?


----------



## Riderz Ready

Slice said:


> Well add another one to the list. I turned my Ricoh 7000 on today (well tried to) and it just turns back off. I purchased a new set of cartridges from Conde in October of 2011, put them in in December. Really disappointing to see all these issues and vendors not contacting people to let them know of the potential problem. Has any solution been reached with this?


The real disappointment should be that for over a year vendors sold the GX7000 knowing there were issues. If they were not going to inform potential customers there were known issues before they bout it would be a stretch to think they would inform someone after they bought it.

There has been multiple post regarding possible class action suits regarding this issue but it seems much easier to file a small claims suit and use the post in this forum to prove without question that this problem was not only identified in late 2010 but claimed to be resolved in January 2011. 

Everyone involved knows it was not resolved in January 2011 yet cartel members kept selling them and should be held liable for doing so. 

You imagine what would happen to any of our customer base if we knowingly sold defective shirts, mouse pads, cases, jerseys, etc for over a year?


----------



## Slice

Just a shame. 

I have a cutter that was out of warranty, when I contacted the service center about my issue they knew of this problem. I paid for the shipping to them, they fixed the issue by putting in a new main board (even with it being out of warranty) and shipped it back to me for free. Now that is what I expect when you pay this sort of money for a piece of equipment.


----------



## obzelite

painful, we don't turn ours off just to be safe.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Slice said:


> Just a shame.
> 
> I have a cutter that was out of warranty, when I contacted the service center about my issue they knew of this problem. I paid for the shipping to them, they fixed the issue by putting in a new main board (even with it being out of warranty) and shipped it back to me for free. Now that is what I expect when you pay this sort of money for a piece of equipment.


To me personally there are two separate scenarios - 

If a vendor sells you a product and later learns there is an issue with the product they sold than it is great customer service for them to fix the issue out of warranty.

If a vendor sells you a product knowing there is an issue with the product than there is little they can do that would be classified as good customer service.


----------



## obzelite

Riderz Ready said:


> If a vendor sells you a product knowing there is an issue with the product than there is little they can do that would be classified as good customer service.


really? so if i sold you a bunch of shirts that fell apart after the first wash you would be fine? as long as i knew i was selling crap?

in that case i have a dtg viper that you may be interested in.


----------



## Riderz Ready

obzelite said:


> really? so if i sold you a bunch of shirts that fell apart after the first wash you would be fine? as long as i knew i was selling crap?
> 
> in that case i have a dtg viper that you may be interested in.


I am thinking you have reading comprehension issues.


----------



## amator

Greetings.
I work as a service technician. In our institution we have three RICOH AFICIO 7000 GX printers that worked without problems until a few months ago when we had no more cartridges to replace. Given that our market does not have an authorized representative for RICOH, it's been a long time until we get a new toner cartridges. During that time, printers are not working because the toner cartridges were consumed. After inserting new toner cartridges and turn the printers on, we got an error 990 on all three printers. We have tried all the instructions for cleaning and procedures that are available on Conde website and youtube, but we had no success to remove this error. Also, we hired a local computer repair service, but even they could not remove the error. We contacted the nearest authorized service provider for RICOH, who told us that the 990 error is related to a defective ink level sensor in the printer head and that it is impossible to replace. He also said that it can only be replaced the whole printer head, but Ricoh has ceased to provide spare parts for these types of printers. Printer were purchased four years ago. Can enyone give me any other advice on how to solve this problem with error 990?
Also, I spent months searching for a service manual and the only thing I did manage to find a service manual for models J007/J010/J011 (Toscana-P1/Toscana-P1N/Piemonte-P1N). It seems to be applicable to the GX 7000 models, but even with the help of a service manual I could not fix this 990 error. 



Thank you.


----------



## Big Al

Good luck! Will I ever buy Ricoh again? NO WAY!!!


----------



## amator

Big Al said:


> Good luck! Will I ever buy Ricoh again? NO WAY!!!


You're right! RICOH? Never again in my company .. NEVER!


----------



## obzelite

amator said:


> You're right! RICOH? Never again in my company .. NEVER!


are you using sawgrass or ricoh cartridges?

any printer left for a length of time is going to have issues, its not confined to ricoh. Its why i always have a set of cartridges ready to go sitting on top of the printer. 
it serves two issues, one, the printer is never without ink and two, i dont miss out on work because i'm waiting for ink.

having 3 identical printers and no spare ink is just bad foresight.


----------



## amator

obzelite said:


> are you using sawgrass or ricoh cartridges?
> 
> any printer left for a length of time is going to have issues, its not confined to ricoh. Its why i always have a set of cartridges ready to go sitting on top of the printer.
> it serves two issues, one, the printer is never without ink and two, i dont miss out on work because i'm waiting for ink.
> 
> having 3 identical printers and no spare ink is just bad foresight.


We use the RICOH cartridges .. As I said before, our country has no authorized RICOH dealer. We have always had a reserve of at least five cartridges for each color before buying new, but this time the delivery took a long time (about 2 months) because the cartridges were not available in our market. So the printers did not work about 15 days, and after replacing the cartridges 990 error appears on all three. Since I am a service technician I have tried to solve the problem:
First
I tried all the instructions and cleaning procedures for removing 990 error that are available on the Ricoh website and Condetv, Youtube, etc. "Cleaning procedures" which, in addition, caused the failure of the 5 new XL cartridges ("Used Ink Cartridges" error ) , especially those with pull out and put in cartridge instructions on Condetv.
Second
We hired an experienced local computer service who have made the printer disassembled into parts and clean them all in detail. Even that did not help.
Third
We contacted the nearest authorized service provider for RICOH in another country, who told us that the 990 error is related to a defective ink level sensor in the printer head and that it is impossible to replace. He also said that it can only be replaced the whole printer head, but Ricoh has ceased to provide spare parts for these types of printers. And by his experience with error 990, if I even can find a replacement print head it is not safe to say that the printer will work again.
And at the end of the story we are stuck with unusable printers, unusable 40 new XL cartridges that cost about $ 3000, and three months of useless torture ..
I apologize for such a long post, but this is my first and it will be only experience with RICOH devices.
Greetings.


----------



## MenF

Solved the problem and angany on the isue Ricoh GX7000 won't turn on. *Several big hits with a big* *4Hammer*. *Now It's of mine mind that nightmare and promised myself never/ever to purchase a Ricoh product again.*


----------



## Riderz Ready

MenF said:


> Solved the problem and angany on the isue Ricoh GX7000 won't turn on. *Several big hits with a big* *4Hammer*. *Now It's of mine mind that nightmare and promised myself never/ever to purchase a Ricoh product again.*


You need to understand that your issue along with all the others has ZERO to do with Ricoh. These issues are not happening with Ricoh using standard ink. They are happening using Sawgrass ink. Ricoh, just like Epson, did not make or intend the printers to be used as dye sub printers. With the patents running out on the Epsons the Sawgrass Cartel had to scramble to a new format that they could protect with new patents. 

The blame for your issues lays solely with Sawgrass and the Cartel member who over sold the printers capabilities.

Another way to look at it - If someone talked you into buying a Ford and converting it to use bio fuel and 6 months later the engine ceases who do you blame? Ford or the people that told you it would work great with bio fuel?


----------



## Slice

Regardless of who is at fault, both companies knew what was being done. Neither one Sawgrass or Ricoh stepped up to the plate to tell users not to mix the combination. It was all about making the all mighty dollar and let the consumers figure out a way to get their money back. They knew their pockets were deeper then ours.

Sawgrass, Ricoh and the resellers knew of the issue and did not pass the information on to the consumers.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Slice said:


> Regardless of who is at fault, both companies knew what was being done. Neither one Sawgrass or Ricoh stepped up to the plate to tell users not to mix the combination. It was all about making the all mighty dollar and let the consumers figure out a way to get their money back. They knew their pockets were deeper then ours.
> 
> Sawgrass, Ricoh and the resellers knew of the issue and did not pass the information on to the consumers.


How would Ricoh, Epson or any printer manufacturer inform the public not to use dye sublimation ink in their printers? It would be impossible to do such.

There are reasons printer manufactures void warranties for using third party inks. They cannot be held responsible for putting low quality and/or corrosive ink into their printers. Should they be responsible for testing every ink on the market to see if it damages their printers?

Sawgrass and the Cartel let the market blame Epsons for years on clogging printheads when it is very clear that the issues is not with the printer but with poor quality ink that is not supported by Epson.

This has zero to do with Ricoh, Epson or any printer manufacture.


----------



## freebird1963

Bad info.
They can't void warranties unless they can prove the ink or ink tanks caused the problem and then they can refuse to do repairs or replace and they have to prove that it was 3rd party ink/ink tanks that caused the problem. Rest of the warranty still applies and only the damage done by the 3 party is exempt.
See the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act .

More useful info on it.
Consumer Choice-About Printer Warranties


Epsons clog even with their oem inks if not used frequently. Most inkjets do.


----------



## Slice

Riderz Ready said:


> How would Ricoh, Epson or any printer manufacturer inform the public not to use dye sublimation ink in their printers? It would be impossible to do such.
> 
> There are reasons printer manufactures void warranties for using third party inks. They cannot be held responsible for putting low quality and/or corrosive ink into their printers. Should they be responsible for testing every ink on the market to see if it damages their printers?
> 
> Sawgrass and the Cartel let the market blame Epsons for years on clogging printheads when it is very clear that the issues is not with the printer but with poor quality ink that is not supported by Epson.
> 
> This has zero to do with Ricoh, Epson or any printer manufacture.


Please Epson knows what printers were being used for sublimation. Do you think they have never monitored a sublimation forum or knew what their printers were being used for. They were burying their heads in the sand like the rest of them. Grab my money and plead ignorance.


----------



## Riderz Ready

freebird1963 said:


> Bad info.
> They can't void warranties unless they can prove the ink or ink tanks caused the problem and then they can refuse to do repairs or replace and they have to prove that it was 3rd party ink/ink tanks that caused the problem. Rest of the warranty still applies and only the damage done by the 3 party is exempt.
> See the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act .
> 
> More useful info on it.
> Consumer Choice-About Printer Warranties
> 
> 
> Epsons clog even with their oem inks if not used frequently. Most inkjets do.


They can void the warranty and they do void the warranty.

For those of us that cannot afford to sue Epson, Mutoh, Roland, etc here is the real world answer. If you use a third party ink not approved by the manufacture or vendor who sold you the printer you will void the entire ink delivery system which includes virtually every major part (specificially the most expensive parts to replace) in the printer. 

You can post all the laws you want but it will not change the facts. Call Epson Professional services and tell them you are using dye sub ink in your Epson wide format printer and your head is shot and you want it replaced under warranty. Call Mutoh sevice ask them to come out and fix your printer under warranty and you are not using Mutoh ink or a Mutoh certified ink. They will tell point blank your printer is not warranted and to bring it back under warranty you would have to replace every part in the ink delivery system.

So you can say it is bad information based on a law but I can say the information is 100% correct based on actual recent experience.

PS While we were moving over from our Epson 9800 to our Mutoh we would print only once a month on our Epson 9800 and never had a clog - we are using J-Tek ink.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Slice said:


> Please Epson knows what printers were being used for sublimation. Do you think they have never monitored a sublimation forum or knew what their printers were being used for. They were burying their heads in the sand like the rest of them. Grab my money and plead ignorance.


Just silly to think a manufacture should be held resonsible when their product is used outside the scope in which it was designed.


----------



## freebird1963

Reread and comprehend. Yes they can refuse to repair or replace under warranty if they prove that the 3rd party is responsible, at which point you'd have to take it up with the 3rd party but they can NOT refuse the entire warranty which is not effected by the 3rd party.

Bad info is bad info. What happens in reality is almost a different story.

And the original posts wasn't about wide format. ITs about the GX-7000.


----------



## Riderz Ready

freebird1963 said:


> Reread and comprehend. Yes they can refuse to repair or replace under warranty if they prove that the 3rd party is responsible, at which point you'd have to take it up with the 3rd party but they can NOT refuse the entire warranty which is not effected by the 3rd party.
> 
> Bad info is bad info. What happens in reality is almost a different story.
> 
> And the original posts wasn't about wide format. ITs about the GX-7000.


So the law only relates to GX 7000 with wide format printers excluded? 

Your response is silly, based on theory not on the real world. Mine based on actual experience.


----------



## Fenrir

The law was intended more to stop companies from voiding the entire warranty due to 3rd party supplies. On a printer, that would include the printhead motor, the feed rollers, the electrical system, etc.

You could pour pure acetone through the printhead and you still can't blame that if the paper won't feed correctly, but manufacturers were using that as an excuse to refuse any warranty repairs whatsoever.

Proving that 3rd party ink didn't damage the printhead is much harder to do.


----------



## mgparrish

freebird1963 said:


> Reread and comprehend. Yes they can refuse to repair or replace under warranty if they prove that the 3rd party is responsible, at which point you'd have to take it up with the 3rd party but they can NOT refuse the entire warranty which is not effected by the 3rd party.
> 
> Bad info is bad info. What happens in reality is almost a different story.
> 
> And the original posts wasn't about wide format. ITs about the GX-7000.


Your assesment on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is correct, also the burden of proof is clearly the responsibility or the "warrantor". Bold emphasis mine in the quoted text below.

PART 700—INTERPRETATIONS OF MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY ACT :: PART 700--INTERPRETATIONS OF MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY ACT :: CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION :: Title 16 - Commercial Practices :: Code of Federal Regulations :: Regulations :: Law :: 

"§ 700.10 Section 102(c).

(a) Section 102(c) prohibits tying arrangements that condition coverage under a written warranty on the consumer's use of an article or service identified by brand, trade, or corporate name unless that article or service is provided without charge to the consumer.
(b) Under a limited warranty that provides only for replacement of defective parts and no portion of labor charges, section 102(c) prohibits a condition that the consumer use only service (labor) identified by the warrantor to install the replacement parts. A warrantor or his designated representative may not provide parts under the warranty in a manner which impedes or precludes the choice by the consumer of the person or business to perform necessary labor to install such parts.
(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, “This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized ‘ABC’ dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine ‘ABC’ parts,” and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102 (c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of “unauthorized” articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such “unauthorized” articles or service; *nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused."*

There are practical considerations that do come into play. For example Epson with the low end _desktops_ never take the time to do an ink analysis or _any_ analysis on the returned printers, generally. 

If your printer is in warranty and you tell them "it doesn't print and tried I to clean the heads" and you don't offer to them that you used sublimation or any other 3rd party inks you are going to get a quick replacement printer (usually a refurbished printer from another return) and they will just swap printers with you. 

Your return goes into the pile with the rest of the returns then they send those to Asia to be rebuilt. _If_ anyone at an Epson printer refurb facility was to notice bad inks it's just so far along in the process to do anything about it, and it ends up costing them more money than it is worth to pursue it. 

I have returned both Epson and a Ricoh Gelsprinter before (using their OEM inks), neither were due to sublimation inks, but I got quick exchanges nonetheless. The Ricoh replacement came before I sent my printer back, they actually sent me pre-paid shipping materials when the replacement came so I could return the defective printer.

Now with a more expensive Pro Epson where you don't get the quick swap they are more likely to be looking closer at your defect and if the service facility thinks the defect was caused by 3rd party inks then there would likely be some "push back". And of course the OEM has more cost at stake as well.

As I mentioned the law is clear, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove the defect was caused by the 3rd party product usage. But in a lawsuit it would not be sufficient to state, "the repair technician noticed different inks and therefore those inks damaged the printer". First a qualified company Engineer would have to do a Failure Analysis and make a determination and document the Analysis, this costs money. Next the report would likely go to an outside PhD Engineer who makes a living testifying in court ... this costs bigger money.

In the 80's and 90's I designed cordless phone products for a couple of different large manufacturers, although the context of this discussion is 3rd party inks the companies I worked for had to be aware of all the implications of MAGNUSON-MOSS. The phones had replacable batteries, antennas, AC adapters etc. 

Of course we gouged the consumer on those and many aftermarket replacements were out there, and much cheaper. Throughout the 80's the product costs were higher so many of the products were actually repaired and returned to the customers. Once in a while the customer would use a wrong choice on a AC adapter or a battery and the products could be damaged by those. Since we actually were "looking" for these things we did "push back" often, even without a real analysis. However, if the customer hollered loud enough or had an Attorney send us a nasty letter, it was simply not worth the money to push back harder.

In the 90's these were always sent back to Asia (like everybody else did) and replaced with a quick exchange refurb. Most of the time we had no clue about any 3rd party damage, _unless the customer voluntered that information._

On the Ricoh's since you have to give purchase information for the warranty claim I would expect Ricoh to really "push back" on the warranty claim since they would know your printer came from a sublimation vendor.

On the Ricoh I returned it was bought from a close-out place and not a sublimation vendor, so there was no push back. 

Desktop Epsons have only a small small amount of sublimation users compared to regular users and mostly sell direct, Staples, Walmart, etc, whereas most anyone selling the Ricoh in the US is a sublimation vendor.

So I think the question becomes how willing is the manufacturer to play "chicken" with the threat of a lawsuit from a consumer, and how much the actual purchase price is of the product in question that the manufacturer is on the hook for, and how much will it cost them to defend themselves if it comes down to it.


----------



## mgparrish

Fenrir said:


> The law was intended more to stop companies from voiding the entire warranty due to 3rd party supplies. On a printer, that would include the printhead motor, the feed rollers, the electrical system, etc.
> 
> You could pour pure acetone through the printhead and you still can't blame that if the paper won't feed correctly, but manufacturers were using that as an excuse to refuse any warranty repairs whatsoever.
> 
> Proving that 3rd party ink didn't damage the printhead is much harder to do.


The burden of proof is on the manufacturer not the consumer, however, this doesn't mean that manufacturers won't still push back if they think there is damage from a 3rd party product.


----------



## Riderz Ready

No arguement that the law exist and what it states and surely a manufacture is not going to even look at a $150 printer to determine the failure but in wider format realm, unless you have the funds to sue, it means little. Furthermore voiding warranties due to the ink used is the norm in wide format and in fact am not aware of any vendor that does not void warranties on the ink delivery system based on using uncertified ink.

This goes back 5 years ago when we first using an Epson 9800 and had an issue. When we called our dye sub ink vendor at the time were told very specifically to make sure we removed the Artainium cartridges and replace with OEM cartridges before the tech came out on site or they would void the warranty. This has continued over the years and most recently with Mutoh who point blank stated that the ink delivery system was not under warranty unless we were using certified ink. Furthermore they stated any new parts that were replaced would not be warranted unless we used certified ink and replaced the entire ink delivery system.

This is also done at the distributor level. Buy a Go Rio branded Mutoh. If you do not use Go Rio ink not only will they void warranty they will not take your calls.

Of all the companies we dealt with on repairs whether it be in or out of warranty Epson is by far the easiest and less expensive. One of the main reason I always recommend and Epson for people moving over to wide format for the first time.


----------



## mgparrish

Riderz Ready said:


> No arguement that the law exist and what it states but in the real world, unless you have the funds to sue, it means little. Furthermore voiding warranties due to the ink used is the norm in wide format and in fact am not aware of any vendor that does not void warranties on the ink delivery system based on using uncertified ink.
> 
> This goes back 5 years ago when we first using an Epson 9800 and had an issue. When we called our dye sub ink vendor at the time were told very specifically to make sure we removed the Artainium cartridges and replace with OEM cartridges before the tech came out on site or they would void the warranty. This has continued over the years and most recently with Mutoh who point blank stated that the ink delivery system was not under warranty unless we were using certified ink. Furthermore they stated any new parts that were replaced would not be warranted unless we used certified ink and replaced the entire ink delivery system.
> 
> This is also done at the distributor level. Buy a Go Rio branded Mutoh. If you do not use Go Rio ink not only will they void warranty they will not take your calls.
> 
> Of all the companies we dealt with on repairs whether it be in or out of warranty Epson is by far the easiest and less expensive. One of the main reason I always recommend and Epson for people moving over to wide format for the first time.


For all intents and purposes an individual consumer can't risk the funds to pursue something like this.

Most manufacturers "tying" scams are defeated via Class Action, where many users are represented with no out of pocket money, but their individual awards are usual small, the award money mostly goes to the lawyers if they win.

I would anticipate that Ricoh has well studied this specific sub ink issue so that they could defend in a Class Action.


----------



## Riderz Ready

mgparrish said:


> For all intents and purposes an individual consumer can't risk the funds to pursue something like this.
> 
> Most manufacturers "tying" scams are defeated via Class Action, where many users are represented with no out of pocket money, but their individual awards are usual small, the award money mostly goes to the lawyers if they win.
> 
> I would anticipate that Ricoh has well studied this specific sub ink issue so that they could defend in a Class Action.


Dead on - the number of people making a living from dye sub is so small and scattered that there is no real threat of manufactures, distributors, etc ever facing significant legal action. Not only could a law firm never find enough people effected by something like this but the actual damages incurred by us all are so small in comparison that a law firm could never afford to persue a class action suit.


----------



## geelee

Well, here it is 2012 and I am getting the real scoop on the GX 7000. We purchased two printers from Johnson Pastics in 2010. Less than 5 months later we began having problems. Sawgrass replaced both printers and they worked splendidly for a while, then they both had the powering off issue. Now they are out of warranty and the only thing Sawgrass is offering is free ink if you purchase a new printer and 90 days printing service if you do not. (I have three dead GX700 and a GX3300 that is problematic). I am in Las Vegas ISS Show 2012 and confronted the Sawgrass salesman there. He offered the same thing with a weak apology. I agree Sawgrass customer care "stinks." I bought their product in good faith in hopes that they would stand behind their product in the support of the business owner. Boy, was I wrong. I am now gathering documentation to file complaints with the State and Federal Attorney General and with the Federal Trades Commission. We should all do the same. All the forms are online if you visit their websites. I am a small business owner and have invested more money and time than necessary trying to get a solution to this issue. I also learned to day while doingmy research that Ricoh sued Sawgrass in relationship to the ink issue with the Ricoh. Please share any info that can help resolve this issue and hopefully get some acceptable compensation. Thanks.


----------



## noclue

I think we should get a list together a look into a class action. I am on my secomd richo 7000 with the same issue. almost one yersr to the day I recieve my replacement and this piece of Sh t wont power up. Im sure there are some out there that can afford another 2 Grand for a replacement But I cant.


----------



## Riderz Ready

The issue is that even if a lawyer was able to find every single Ricoh user of Sawgrass ink the number is still so small and the damages so little that a lawyer would lose huge money fighting the cartel and the cartel knows it. This is much more than a Sawgrass issue but more important it is distributors that have marketed and sold this solution as the greatest thing to ever happen to dye sublimation that bear much of the responsibility. This has been an on-going issue for almost two years. All during this time the cartel has known about the issues and still sold it to unknowing consumers. Go back to the beginning of this thread - in January 2011 it was deamed "the problems are behind us". Seriously? 

To me it would be much easier to go after the distributors who knowingly sold faulty products. Heck this was originally sold as the next great thing in dye sublimation because you did not have to use it on an on-going basis. Oops fast forward and by not using it on an on-going basis you basically fried the printer. Makes a head clog seem kind of minor in comparison. 

To make matters worse Sawgrass and their cartel members are forcing the desktop market to Ricohs because of expiring patents on the Epson desktop market. Is it by some fluke that no Epson desktop is officially supported anymore? Strange that the least expensive and most supported printer in the world just falls off the Cartels supported printer list. 

When you have a small number of companies that control an entire market that are gouging consumers at $2,000 per liter of ink you can be assured they will stop at little to protect their future.


----------



## noclue

I still think its worth a try this has put me out of the sublimation business.


----------



## Riderz Ready

noclue said:


> I still think its worth a try this has put me out of the sublimation business.


Surely worth a try - my only point was a class action type lawyer would not touch it due to no real money being involved.

This is perfect example of why there are monopoly laws - no sure how they get away with it but it they do.


----------



## geelee

Thank you for responding. I did file a complaint with the FTC and also with the Attorney General's office in SC. (They sent me another form to complete. "Government red tape." I wonder how many more forms will I get. However, I do not plan to stop here. I do think there are enough of us that someone with concern for consumer rights might listen. If this had been a car, a baby item, or even house paint, there would have been a national recall. How many of us have Twitter accounts? Posting on Twitter would give us number data on how many people are actually affected by this issue. Just a thought.....


----------



## Riderz Ready

geelee said:


> Thank you for responding. I did file a complaint with the FTC and also with the Attorney General's office in SC. (They sent me another form to complete. "Government red tape." I wonder how many more forms will I get. However, I do not plan to stop here. I do think there are enough of us that someone with concern for consumer rights might listen. If this had been a car, a baby item, or even house paint, there would have been a national recall. How many of us have Twitter accounts? Posting on Twitter would give us number data on how many people are actually affected by this issue. Just a thought.....


Hats off to you - 

Where did you stumble upon the information in regards to Ricoh going after Sawgrass?


----------



## taz1357

I am having the same issue with the machine refusing to turn back on when I replaced two ink cartridges. I have the Ricoh GX5050n. I'm sorry I purchased it if this is what it does. Just purchased $440 worth of ink today. Have read the manual. When I try to turn it on, the red light comes on the NIC and that shouldn't matter. The power light goes off after a few seconds of the nic flashing red. I should not have to hook it up to a direct internet connection to get it running. 

taz


----------



## Big Al

....and another one bites the dust!


----------



## Conde_David

I may be able to help you.
Give me a call.


----------



## taz1357

This is the same problem I am having with my 5050n.

taz


----------



## weprintdotorg

What happened is the chip in the ink cartridges fried the board on the printer. I've been there. Call David from Conde, he gave me a good discount on another printer but if yours is still under warranty, you won't have a problem.


----------



## greenmachine

Is there any anything to do with new expired cartridges? I have a set still sealed. I spoke to a vendor about my dead 7000 and getting a new printer. they were supposed to check with the boss and call me back about a new printer. NEVER happened.


----------



## D-Alien

I am now the Proud owner of 2 of these Rather Large and EXPENSIVE Door Stops 

The first one packed up within the first year.

Today the 2nd one started printing black lines across the page.

Now when i turn it on the power light comes on, then all the lights flash and OFF it goes (Both of these rather expensive printers do exactly the same thing)


----------



## Conde_David

What are the dates on the carts?


----------



## D-Alien

Hi David

I can't seem to find any dates on any of the cartridges from either printer, the latest printer to die only recently had a new set of cartridges installed about a month ago

Not sure what these numbers mean but they are on white labels on the side of the cartridge

B = 23021CB
C = 210211NW
M = 190911SW
Y = 220211CB

If the cartridges do have a date on them, where should i be looking ??

Thanks

Dave


----------



## Conde_David

What brand ink?
Dates should be greater than today.


----------



## D-Alien

My apologies, they are Sawgrass inks, i cant even find a date on the last two that were changed out


----------



## Conde_David

Quite strange. Should have dates.

Take a picture of the label and email me at
[email protected]


----------



## D-Alien

email on its way and thanks

Dave


----------



## TCODirect

Add me to the victims of Sawgrass. I bought 2 GX7000s from Johnson Plastics a couple of years ago. I set one up for Chromablast (never produced acceptable results...) and one for sublimation. A couple of months ago I put a cartridge into the sublimation printer, it started its maintenance routine, and then died. 

Sawgrass offered me one cartridge and printing for 90 days...

Johnson Plastics said there wasn't anything they could do- they have lost all future business from me.

I converted the Chromablast printer over to sublimation ink and pray every day that it keeps working.

Doug


----------



## Riderz Ready

TCODirect said:


> Add me to the victims of Sawgrass. I bought 2 GX7000s from Johnson Plastics a couple of years ago. I set one up for Chromablast (never produced acceptable results...) and one for sublimation. A couple of months ago I put a cartridge into the sublimation printer, it started its maintenance routine, and then died.
> 
> Sawgrass offered me one cartridge and printing for 90 days...
> 
> Johnson Plastics said there wasn't anything they could do- they have lost all future business from me.
> 
> I converted the Chromablast printer over to sublimation ink and pray every day that it keeps working.
> 
> Doug


I think all of us at one time or another have unrealistic expectations for dye sub printers. The vast majority of printers were not made to handle such ink. Because we have our desktop printer for years without issue the same cannot be expected from dye sub printers whether they are desktop or wide format. 

Two years is a decent run for a dye sub printer. To be honest hats off to Sawgrass for doing anything. What other product do you purchase and expect a warranty two years later?


----------



## obzelite

Well, number 2 for me.
right before xmas and i have a ****load of work.

thing that really pisses me off it i just bought a full set of cartridges and if i want to get a new printer i have to get the 7700 and i'm stuck with these cartridges i cant use.
supplier told me to ebay them. sorry AGS but i'm not buying a printer from you when you wont take brand new cartridges, i bought a week ago from you, back.


----------



## TCODirect

Riderz Ready said:


> I think all of us at one time or another have unrealistic expectations for dye sub printers. The vast majority of printers were not made to handle such ink. Because we have our desktop printer for years without issue the same cannot be expected from dye sub printers whether they are desktop or wide format.
> 
> Two years is a decent run for a dye sub printer. To be honest hats off to Sawgrass for doing anything. What other product do you purchase and expect a warranty two years later?


I should have added that I'd only printed about 150 pages with it over that time- it didn't wear out, it was destroyed by whatever the Sawgrass cartridge did to it. I had just put a cartridge in it when it died. Most of the ink that went thru it was head cleanings.

The death of my GX7000 was clearly a Sawgrass problem. Google GX7000 and try to find threads like this one where the printers died prematurely when using the Ricoh inks- I couldn't find any such threads!


----------



## obzelite

i got about 1500 pages out of mine this time. thing is awesome when it runs. best sub printer despite sawgrasses efforts

thinking of buying a chip resetter and prying the chips off original cartridges and fixing them to sawgrass ones.
only way i can see to bypass whatever sawgrass have screwed up.

or buy empty cartridges and sub ink from china and bypass sawgrass all together.


----------



## WingedBull

So is it still worth it now to buy sublimation ink cartridges from SawGrass and install them into my Ricoh GX7000?

My current printer (Ricoh GX7000) is out of warranty though.

Also, I found a good offer on the classified ads for a GX7000 that will turn on but then turn off immediately along with regular inks installed on it, for $100. I don't know if it will be fixable or not.!
I don't know if the owner has tried to fix that printer or not.


----------



## mn shutterbug

WingedBull said:


> Also, I found a good offer on the classified ads for a GX7000 that will turn on but then turn off immediately along with regular inks installed on it, for $100. I don't know if it will be fixable or not.!
> I don't know if the owner has tried to fix that printer or not.


I wouldn't take a chance. Even if it was fixable, you'd still need to flush the old ink out of it and you still wouldn't know if the fix would last.


----------



## WingedBull

Sawgrass Systems, Inc. is not accredited by the Better Business Bureau. 
From what I read here, not a single complain has been recorded with the BBB.
From what I read on this thread you would think it would have many complaints and very low rating.


----------



## ladyjn13

What I can't believe is that this thread went on for over two years and Sawgrass denied the entire time that there was an issue. This is why they will never get our business ever again. We found a much better supplier of sublimation inks. One that actually cares about providing real old fashion customer service.


----------



## Riderz Ready

WingedBull said:


> Sawgrass Systems, Inc. is not accredited by the Better Business Bureau.
> From what I read here, not a single complain has been recorded with the BBB.
> From what I read on this thread you would think it would have many complaints and very low rating.


I think the BBB is something of the past with the new generation - kind of like phone books.


----------



## Riderz Ready

ladyjn13 said:


> What I can't believe is that this thread went on for over two years and Sawgrass denied the entire time that there was an issue. This is why they will never get our business ever again. We found a much better supplier of sublimation inks. One that actually cares about providing real old fashion customer service.


I am not personally aware of anytime Sawgrass them selves denied anything was wrong. Clearly if you go back in the thread Conde claimed 2 years ago the problem was solved when clearly it had just begun. 

With that said Sawgrass and their distributors clearly made zero effort to inform people of the problem nor did they warn any unexpecting customer that they were selling a product that, without question, was causing printer failures. That is where business ethics 101 should have come into play.

If you, I, and most of the small businesses on the forum would have knowingly sold faulty products for several years we would be out of business as we operate in a competitive market. When you have a monopolistic market there was no fear in continuing to dump faulty products on the market.

This problem would have never been know by the general consumer if not for this forum. Distributors could have continued to pretend there was no problem what so ever.


----------



## lalmeida

Can you please give us the name of the supplier


----------



## ladyjn13

Riderz Ready said:


> I am not personally aware of anytime Sawgrass them selves denied anything was wrong. Clearly if you go back in the thread Conde claimed 2 years ago the problem was solved when clearly it had just begun.
> 
> With that said Sawgrass and their distributors clearly made zero effort to inform people of the problem nor did they warn any unexpecting customer that they were selling a product that, without question, was causing printer failures. That is where business ethics 101 should have come into play.


While Sawgrass never publically denied wrong doing, they certainly did it privately numerous times. I agree that Condee did their level best to help, especially David Gross who should be commended, and they really do seem to care about their customers or potential customers. 

My biggest complaints with Sawgrass are they are arrogant and they deny all culpability. They stated to me in the midst of our saga with 3 different failed printers that Ricoh made an inferior product, the cause of the issue, and the only reason this unit was still on the market was because of their role selling it for sublimation use. 

I cannot believe that Ricoh would pay all the R&D costs into making a printer exclusively for our use. While I appreciate the efforts, if this were even remotely a true fact, one would think they also would create the required ink and not leave that to a 3rd party to reap the benefits.

Just my two cents!


----------



## ladyjn13

lalmeida said:


> Can you please give us the name of the supplier


I will be happy to message you privately and anyone else who contacts me on the forum.


----------



## Riderz Ready

Conde_David said:


> Thanks.
> I am an electrical engineer.
> I have careful researched this issue.
> 
> I am sorry when any printer fails.
> 
> The Ricoh failure rate is very low as we
> we have sold the bulk of the Ricoh printers.
> 
> The failure rate at this point has continued
> to decrease.
> 
> I am confident that the issue is now behind us.
> 
> 
> The Ricoh is the best printer by far.
> 
> If there folks out there that need help I will
> do my best. Let me know.


This was posted January 11th, 2011 - How many dozens of Ricoh/Sawgrass printers failed after this?

How many times did Conde or any of the suppliers ever warn a customer of the KNOWN problems of this printer or did they just keep selling them off the racks with the dillusion everything was fine.

Clearly the issue was FAR from behind and only gaining spped.

Each distributor made an individual chjoice whether or not to continue selling a faulty solution or stop selling them until the situation was truly resolved. 

Sorry, but for me when one knowingly sells a faulty product without warning consumers they get zero points for trying to make right a problem they in fact created.


----------



## cornpopps

I like most others on this forum have been following the thread since it began. I have lost 1 printer due to the Flash of Death as I call it. My replacement GX7000 has been running ever since. 

I almost purposely have done everything wrong to it....Let it sit for a month at a time, let my inks expire over a year and come back and print 18 cases of plaques every 10 weeks. Never maintenance it. Only run a nozzle check before I print. So far over 2 years now and this printer running the SG inks has become one reliable piece of equipment in my shop(knock on wood).

I feel its paid for itself 10 fold so far and I feel that now if it goes I will get another and make money off that one as well. 
I contemplated on getting an Epson but the Ricoh is fast as hell.

When my 1st GX7000 crapped out SG provided my prints for me next day, a couple of carts and a loaner GX3300. They were pretty helpful on the phone. Maybe I got a good CS rep ,luck of the draw, who knows. My production did not suffer and that was what mattered to me. 

I feel all the points made about SG being accountable are dead on, and I feel they should have been more open and not let company's sell a faulty product(ink). But like I said I was able to overcome this and move forward and bottom line make some money and put out some cool product for my customers. 
Apologies for the long post.


----------



## cowboylife

Well my Ricoh GX7000 just bit the dust after very little printing and the warranty is out.... it has the same issues as this post has stated from the beginning, I think in 2009. It is definitely the motherboard!!!! And there are no replacements for that, so I have been told. 

For everyone on this thread..... have you purchased another Ricoh or a different printer for dye sub? I would like to know before I purchase another printer that will fail within 2 years of purchase, I don't have that kind of money to waste.


----------



## Conde_David

What are the dates of your carts?


----------



## edward1210

BillyV said:


> I have one even better than that....
> I push the power button and hold it a second and the power light comes on and within a second the panel lights flash and the unit turns off!
> 
> Arghhhh~!


it just happened to me:I push the power button and hold it a second and the power light comes on and within a second the panel lights flash and the unit turns off!
I was telling David Gross from conde it will be nice whoever is responsible for this printer to offer a refund or a credit to get another printer, I'm sure someone know this printer has some issue


----------



## Logomotion

Just had the same issue with our Ricoh printer. We have hardly used it, but of course it is just past it's warranty so we would just have to buy a new one according to our supplier. Which means we can throw away our spare inkcartridges as well. It sucks that the printer is gone but what makes me really angry that this is obviously a problem that has been going on for years and was well known when we bought this printer, and our dealer didn't tell us anything other than this was the perfect printer, no clogging etc.


----------



## geelee

The only good thing about the GX7000 is that it really is a great sublimation printer, but it has a very short lifespan. I purchased two GX7000 printers, one for our main office and one for another work site. I just had a company that recycles computer equipment remove two dead GX7000 printers from my storage area. One died within the warranty period and was replaced. The second one died few months after the warranty period. The replaced GX7000 is still working, but I refuse to turn it off. I just pray we never have a power failure. I am still waiting for someone to recommend a reliable, long-life sublimation printer.


----------



## freebird1963

geelee said:


> The only good thing about the GX7000 is that it really is a great sublimation printer, but it has a very short lifespan. I purchased two GX7000 printers, one for our main office and one for another work site. I just had a company that recycles computer equipment remove two dead GX7000 printers from my storage area. One died within the warranty period and was replaced. The second one died few months after the warranty period. The replaced GX7000 is still working, but I refuse to turn it off. I just pray we never have a power failure. I am still waiting for someone to recommend a reliable, long-life sublimation printer.


Its not the ricoh has a short life span its that the SG inks eat the print heads.


----------



## Frank

My Ricoh GX 7000 died. I installed new cartridges, the printer lights flashed on, went off and powered off. It's long out of warranty but hardly used. What a waste of money.
I was considering dismantling it to see if it was possible to clean the print heads, but I get the impression (from previous posts) it would be a waste of time.
I've read that other disappointed Ricoh owners have sworn not to deal with their suppliers anymore - so Conde, Johnson Plastics etc will lose customers, but probably to each other and have survived the anger of our posts.
So Bollocks to SG and their crappy inks and Bollocks to the distributors who over sold me and all the others out there on a product that was doomed to failure - shame on you all.
I'm going to try a different route. I'm going with refurbished Epson printers - I buy them cheap from Epson and if and when they fail they will have cost me a fraction of what I paid for the Ricoh. 
I've bought CIS systems from Cobra Inks in Tennessee - really nice people to do business with. I also bought CIS systems from InkJetCarts in New Jersey - again really nice people to deal with.
So now I have ink, CIS and printers at a fraction of the cost and if any of it goes tits up, I won't care. Cheers Frank


----------



## Conde_David

Sorry for the issue.
What were the dates on the old carts?


----------



## Frank

Thank you for your response.
I no longer have any of the cartridges, I dumped the lot.


----------



## raqi1986

I am sorry to bring this thread up again, but I am contemplating on purchasing the GX7000. I read the thread and it seems as the issue has been "fixed" but then some continuing to complain of the same issue. 

I am planning on purchasing it from Conde, but after reading all of these reviews, it scared me. 

Any input?


----------



## freebird1963

Sures its the 7000 ? They have been discontinued as far as I thought.
The newer models seem to have less of these issues. Not sure if they are using new print heads that don't waste away from the SG inks or SG re formulated the inks.


----------



## raqi1986

Hi Mark,

Yes, I was looking at the Ricoh SG 7100DN. Do you have any input on that printer?

I do sublimation. Phone cases, laptop sleeves, etc...

I am looking for at least 13x19.

Thank you


----------



## jmg2003

I have a crazy idea......

Has anybody ever heard of the process called Reflowing? Basically heating electronic components to 385F to melt the solder on the PCB then allowing it to cool, thus reinforcing and reconnecting the solder to repair hardware failures. I've actually repaired two totally dead PC motherboards and a hard drive using this technique.

Well I have a dead Ricoh GX7000 with the Flash of Death in the basement that's been sitting there collecting dust. After doing some research and determining this to be a failure of one of the hardware boards, I'm thinking about taking it apart and stripping the suspected board of all possible components and giving this method a shot to see if it can bring it back to life.

I have no idea if the board can be stripped in such a way to do this or if it can even be fixed with this technique because I haven't even looked at it yet. But if the board is able to take it and the printers dead with no chance of repair already....

I won't tell you how to do it, or even that you SHOULD do it. Because there is most definitely a risk of smoke, flame, and even explosion if a component "pops" such as a battery that wasn't removed.

Look it up on Google for some guides and more information if you're insane like I am 

That being said, if I deem the board a worthy candidate, I'm definitely giving it shot.


----------



## mgparrish

jmg2003 said:


> I have a crazy idea......
> 
> Has anybody ever heard of the process called Reflowing? Basically heating electronic components to 385F to melt the solder on the PCB then allowing it to cool, thus reinforcing and reconnecting the solder to repair hardware failures. I've actually repaired two totally dead PC motherboards and a hard drive using this technique.
> 
> Well I have a dead Ricoh GX7000 with the Flash of Death in the basement that's been sitting there collecting dust. After doing some research and determining this to be a failure of one of the hardware boards, I'm thinking about taking it apart and stripping the suspected board of all possible components and giving this method a shot to see if it can bring it back to life.
> 
> I have no idea if the board can be stripped in such a way to do this or if it can even be fixed with this technique because I haven't even looked at it yet. But if the board is able to take it and the printers dead with no chance of repair already....
> 
> I won't tell you how to do it, or even that you SHOULD do it. Because there is most definitely a risk of smoke, flame, and even explosion if a component "pops" such as a battery that wasn't removed.
> 
> Look it up on Google for some guides and more information if you're insane like I am
> 
> That being said, if I deem the board a worthy candidate, I'm definitely giving it shot.


Ummm, yes there are reflow systems to rework/repair electronics. But best you price the equipment before you start such an endeavor.

HakkoUSA - Product Detail - Hakko FR801 Hot Air Rework System

By the time you buy the work station _and all the necessary attachments required for each component type _you have more than bought you a new printer.

You are taking a "shotgun" approach to your troubleshooting and don't really know precisely which component type actually has bad solder (or if it does).

So then you have to buy extra attachment tips and nozzles for each unique types of component _footprints_ found on the PCBA. 

Look closely at the accessories, you likely will need many different ones $$$ as the PCBA will contain both discreet parts with unique footprints and the IC's come in all different pin-out topologies and number of pins.

HakkoUSA - Product Detail - Hakko FR801 Hot Air Rework System

Since you won't have access to a GX7000 BOM are you going to guess which ones to buy? You would need to look over the PCBA and identify _each part_ , and there could be hundreds, so what nozzles would you even know to buy? Are you going to buy all the nozzles and tips?

If you blow heat over the device and it's not focused and controlled over the pins, and overheats the body, you are highly likely to heat damage the part.

Supposing that you don't mind spending more than your printer costs just to fix it, there is no guarantee the defect was due to a poor solder joint in the first place. 

Very good chance you have suffered a device failure internally inside the component, so re-soldering via reflow won't fix that kind of a defect ... in other words tightening down your lug nuts won't fix your flat tire on your car.

Then you spent all this money on something and still didn't fix your problem.

It is possible to reflow the entire PCBA all at once, but to do that correctly you need a HA or IR reflow oven for that, these are used to do the production SMD assembly and reflow the solder paste mounting the components down when the board is first made. 

You don't want to know what these costs, trust me.


----------



## jmg2003

Well you've just blown my mind Mike lol...your knowledge is certainly more extensive on the printer than mine certainly. However, all of that aside, I've used the method to fix a couple motherboards using the just oven in my kitchen. Very crude, but an hour later I had a working computer and albeit a very stinky house 

I agree though, most likely an actual component that failed and it's not going to fix it. But if it's broke with no hope of revival anyways; why not set fire to it and show Ricoh what we really think of the GX7000? lol jk.

It's nice to meet you Mike, my names Joe. I'm new on here but I've been lurking for awhile though. It's fitting that you'd be the first person I'd talk to. I read a lot of your posts and you always give very helpful information and referrals. I'm sure we'll be talking more in the future.


----------



## jmg2003

Well you've just blown my mind Mike lol...your knowledge is certainly more extensive on the printer than mine certainly. However, all of that aside, I've used the method to fix a couple motherboards using the just oven in my kitchen. Very crude, but an hour later I had a working computer and albeit a very stinky house  

I agree though, most likely an actual component that failed and it's not going to fix it. But if it's broke with no hope of revival anyways; why not set fire to it and show Ricoh what we really think of the GX7000? lol jk.

It's nice to meet you Mike, my names Joe. I'm new on here but I've been lurking for awhile though. It's fitting that you'd be the first person I'd talk to. I read a lot of your posts and you always give very helpful information and referrals. I'm sure we'll be talking more in the future.


----------



## mgparrish

jmg2003 said:


> Well you've just blown my mind Mike lol...your knowledge is certainly more extensive on the printer than mine certainly. However, all of that aside, I've used the method to fix a couple motherboards using the just oven in my kitchen. Very crude, but an hour later I had a working computer and albeit a very stinky house
> 
> I agree though, most likely an actual component that failed and it's not going to fix it. But if it's broke with no hope of revival anyways; why not set fire to it and show Ricoh what we really think of the GX7000? lol jk.
> 
> It's nice to meet you Mike, my names Joe. I'm new on here but I've been lurking for awhile though. It's fitting that you'd be the first person I'd talk to. I read a lot of your posts and you always give very helpful information and referrals. I'm sure we'll be talking more in the future.


Thanks, nice to meet you and welcome to TSF. I'm a EE BTW. Sublimation is something I do on the side.


----------



## freebird1963

Most of these that died are from the print heads failing, doubt reflowing them would do anything. Wish tho cuz I would do it in a heart beat. Lost two of them.


----------



## Timkelco

I cant believe this thread is still going. I have since put the Ricoh on the top shelf and forgot about it. Turns out I was not crazy to think that the ink carts where killing the printers back in 2011. It is so sad that SG does not give a hoot about the people who by their garbage ink. The whole Conde SG Ricoh ink problem kicked me right out of the sublimation business. I did not even have the stomach to buy SG inks for my Epson 4880 anymore. I just continue to use my 10 year old Roland printers everyday like clockwork. So glad that I was able to rely on one company to make a reliable printer.


----------



## thesteve

my name is steve
im an electronics tech, that found this thread in researching the gx7000
i was thinking about purchasing a dead unit, but it would need to be really cheap after reading this thread
the failure sounds like a shorted component on the main board to me
it may or may not be head related, but its unlikely based on the failure moment story's
if a failed GX7000 gets into my hands i will report back with my findings
anyone willing to send me a dead unit?
note im in california


----------



## freebird1963

If sooner would have let you have mine. Just took it to the dump.
Enough of them out there.


----------



## thesteve

just hoping someone is still holding onto a dead one looking for answers


----------



## charles95405

Suggest you start a new thread asking for a dead Ricoh 7000


----------



## Iconify

I was one of the original buyers of the GX7000 when they first came out. It died, Conde warrantied it for me and I ended up with another unit to use while the 'new' 7000's were on the way. I got the replacement 7000 and it was a total workhorse, even with infrequent use. I always left it turned on though, it cost me some ink but it saved the printer. Earlier this summer someone in the shop did me a favor and turned it off. It was probably off for a week. I turned it on, and noticed the error for the waste tank. Turned it off to check the waste tank and upon turning it back on - fatal error. Scoured the internet for resolution and hack to this error code and after a half dozen times of power cycling and button pushing, it was laid to rest. Of course this was the day before what would normally be a quick job was due. I drove all over town to find a Ricoh printer and then again for inks, thankfully both were local. Due to bad timing I could only get ahold of the 3110 but I've been happy with it. I still think I'd buy another large Ricoh at some point, every Epson I have ever owned died here in the dry climate of Las Vegas.


----------



## eemiller68

I feel pretty lucky, My GX7000 has been running like a world champ since 2008, not the first problem!!

If it ever does die, I will give it to the person looking for a dead one


----------



## thesteve

i picked 1 up but its not dead
could use the network module
still willing to figure out the issue people were having, but would need a dead 1 to look at


----------



## freebird1963

thesteve said:


> i picked 1 up but its not dead
> could use the network module
> still willing to figure out the issue people were having, but would need a dead 1 to look at


Use expired SG ink and it will die a nasty death.


----------



## Conde_David

I would search for a Ricoh GX5050. That printer came standard with a network module. It is easily removed and installed in your GX7000.


----------



## thesteve

thanks, will search a 5050 parts unit


----------



## thesteve

would the gx5050 run without the network module?
anyone want to sell me one they arent using


----------



## Conde_David

Yes it will


----------



## jpkevin

I have a couple extra Network cards. Give me a call.


----------



## thesteve

Ok this printer is now power flash like the others
It was throwing an error I couldn't clear
It wasn't pumping ink to 1 head
Cause was a shorted transistor on the main board
When its counterpart failed it went to power flash 
Anyone with a power flash prob should replace the 4 transistors on the heatsink (underside main board)


----------



## thesteve

Replaced the shorted transistors


----------



## thesteve

Back to error 990


----------



## thesteve

I'm done
This printer sat too long and I was unable to recover the plugged head
The power problem was a cheap fix and caused by a few shorted transistors 
But without a head assy this printer will never print again
Don't know how long it sat before I got it as I bought it from a junk dealer


----------



## Lion77

Worst printer ever!!!! Bought one from conde systems and when it gets out of warranty and you have a problem - you just trash it... But wait: It's an 800 (eight hundred) dollars printer......thanks ricoh and conde


----------



## freebird1963

Lion77 said:


> Worst printer ever!!!! Bought one from conde systems and when it gets out of warranty and you have a problem - you just trash it... But wait: It's an 800 (eight hundred) dollars printer......thanks ricoh and conde


Frustration is pointed at the wrong people. Not really either of their fault. The fault lies with SawGrass and their corporate BS for profits mentality.


----------



## inventor112

Hello everyone
the problem that occurred to me to say
The problem started after cleaning the nozzles with water
what happened that made cortocicuito
conprobar video attached to the same thing happens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SkmL14GlWc

the problem is referred to two transistors 2003 and c5487
They are connected to ground
changing these two piece makina on but leaves other top cover open Error
the problem is that the temperature resistance is cut

of momet my ricoh 7700 I have parked
and located a man who sells many aficio Ricoh and other Ricoh gx e3350N
to theme plate etc.
I hope I have helped a little
sorry for my English and I use a translator


----------



## Isaac11

thesteve said:


> Replaced the shorted transistors


Hello Steve !
Can you tell us where did you bought the 2 transistors?

Thanks in advance


----------



## thesteve

they were bought on ebay
note the part numbers on the bags are slightly different as the original numbers aren't available


----------



## thesteve

these are a matched pair config
the C is an NPN and the A is a PNP (dont mix them up)


----------



## Isaac11

Ok thanks for your advice ! I'm a big noob in electronics just to be sure is it the same ref ?
2SA1469 Transistor Silicon PNP Case SOT186A Make Sanyo | eBay
2SC3746 Transistor Silicon NPN Case TO220F Make Sanyo

Hope it will solve my turn ON/OFF problem with this printer

Thanks


----------



## mgparrish

Isaac11 said:


> Ok thanks for your advice ! I'm a big noob in electronics just to be sure is it the same ref ?
> 2SA1469 Transistor Silicon PNP Case SOT186A Make Sanyo | eBay
> 2SC3746 Transistor Silicon NPN Case TO220F Make Sanyo
> 
> Hope it will solve my turn ON/OFF problem with this printer
> 
> Thanks


Transistors don't always fail on their own. Usually something else is the root cause.

As I recall the power supplies were being blown due to the inks being expired and causing the print head to blow the power supply due to overload. But those parts are cheap enough and at this point you have little to lose.

Please post your results. This was a common issue.


----------



## Conde_David

I think the root cause was caused by the print head failing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mgparrish

Conde_David said:


> I think the root cause was caused by the print head failing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To that point then replacing the transistors without replacing the print head would result in the same problem again.


----------



## Conde_David

Correct. That is my understanding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Isaac11

Will post the result Guys !


----------



## freebird1963

Regardless the bastards refused to admit to any of this and those of us that were invested into their products got screwed. 99.99% of them are now in the landfills and dumps so this is useless and just brings up hateful feelings of being bent over by another big corp that could careless.
Fick Sawgrass.


----------



## thesteve

yes the heads can burn those transistors
its 2 transistors per head, so yours might be the other pair (or all 4)
the new part numbers are a bit stronger then the originals (better parts) so it may never short again (time will tell)
just be sure to match the 2SA to 2SA and 2SC to 2SC when you replace them so the polarity is correct


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> yes the heads can burn those transistors
> its 2 transistors per head, so yours might be the other pair (or all 4)
> the new part numbers are a bit stronger then the originals (better parts) so it may never short again (time will tell)
> just be sure to match the 2SA to 2SA and 2SC to 2SC when you replace them so the polarity is correct


Even if the replacements have a higher current rating ... if the print head(s) caused them to go out in the first place then you still have new transistors driving a defective print head.


----------



## thesteve

yes, but if it was printing fine before then it will likely again


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> yes, but if it was printing fine before then it will likely again


If it was printing fine at one time, then if an event happened with the print head and caused an over load at the power supply ... is the print head magically fixed by replacing the transistors?

It (the print head) just decided one day to draw excessive current one time only then go back to being OK?


----------



## thesteve

actually the head current is effected by the ink density and number of dots currently active, so yes the head current can be higher or lower from moment to moment


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> actually the head current is effected by the ink density and number of dots currently active, so yes the head current can be higher or lower from moment to moment


But shouldn't the _normal_ variation in current be handled by using a part that has a current spec rating that was chosen by the Design Engineer to consider the print head current variation in normal operation? 

It caused an excessive current outside it's intended design parameters and caused the transistors(s) to fail.


----------



## thesteve

well consider this
when the heads draw more the parts get heated which shortens their life
head cleaning cycles are particularly hard on the transistors as they are driven at max current for the entire cycle
so its likely that even a good head will blow transistors during cleaning cycles, especially if repeated under a short run time


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> well consider this
> when the heads draw more the parts get heated which shortens their life
> head cleaning cycles are particularly hard on the transistors as they are driven at max current for the entire cycle
> so its likely that even a good head will blow transistors during cleaning cycles, especially if repeated under a short run time


So you are saying that the Electrical Engineers didn't adequately derate those transistors they chose? Most unusual for Japanese electrical engineers and a big company like Ricoh to design in a low MTBF into a product they have to warranty. 

Current draw during head cleanings would be considered in the design by any competent Engineer.

But what do I know, I'm only an Electronics Engineer. 

Me thinks using inks the printer wasn't designed for and further aggravation by using expired inks and damage to the print head damage resulted and was the reason most of these printers died. 

I didn't read in all those posts people were doing excessive head cleanings causing this. Ricoh's rarely clogged as there is a mechanism in software to run a trickle amount of ink through the heads even when idle to keep the inks fresh and not dry out. The data speaks for itself.

The defect reports largely went away once people starting using fresh inks in the printers. It's rare now for someone to post this defect anymore for the last couple of years now.


----------



## thesteve

im not saying that the parts were insufficient at build
also using bad inks is a major contributor to the issue
what i am saying is this is the power problem, once fixed you can find out if the heads are still usable


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> *im not saying that the parts were insufficient at build*
> also using bad inks is a major contributor to the issue
> what i am saying is this is the power problem, once fixed you can find out if the heads are still usable


But you stated "when the heads draw more the parts get heated which shortens their life". This would mean exactly that "the parts were insufficient at build". In a good design adequate part derating is a fundamental requirement.

It's speculation on my part the head are bad, but my money says too many of these have failed just to be transistors being gradually over used and replacing them would fix all of these. 

In many of these cases one of the symptoms was a missing color. A normal head cleaning should clear a dry ink clog. These were missing colors because the print head had a permanent damage is where I would place my money if I were to bet on this.


----------



## thesteve

i totally agree that head damage is a likely precursor to the power issue
further i suspect replacement heads would be good to have on hand (tho unavailable from my searches)
if a color was missing prier to the power issue, that further says bad head
however if 2 colors are missing that says 1 shorted transistor
the no power is 2 shorted transistors as they are in a push pull circuit


----------



## Isaac11

Can we flush the head ? If head is blocked I want to take it apart and flush it.
Does anyone know where can I find Service Manual for GXe3350n


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> i totally agree that head damage is a likely precursor to the power issue
> further i suspect replacement heads would be good to have on hand (tho unavailable from my searches)
> if a color was missing prier to the power issue, that further says bad head
> however if 2 colors are missing that says 1 shorted transistor
> the no power is 2 shorted transistors as they are in a push pull circuit


Most cases it was 1 color missing if you go back and read.

I haven't seen the schematics, but I'm not understanding your analysis of the circuit. Do you have a schematic?


----------



## mgparrish

Isaac11 said:


> Can we flush the head ? If head is blocked I want to take it apart and flush it.
> Does anyone know where can I find Service Manual for GXe3350n


I can't see from your picture but are there another set of transistors on the the other side of the large heat sink? The picture looks like there are pads there for another set of 2 pairs of transistors, but I can't see the other side.


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> i totally agree that head damage is a likely precursor to the power issue
> further i suspect replacement heads would be good to have on hand (tho unavailable from my searches)
> if a color was missing prier to the power issue, that further says bad head
> *however if 2 colors are missing that says 1 shorted transistor*
> the no power is 2 shorted transistors as they are in a push pull circuit


Sure looks like to me there are a pair of transistors for each color channel.

Looks like the other 4 transistors are on the back of the heat sink, Q27, Q28, Q29 and Q30 following the 4 transistors shown Q23, Q24, Q25 and Q26. 

8 transistors on the heat sink. Each channel uses a complimentary pair (push pull) of transistors.

So how can it be that "if 2 colors are missing that says 1 shorted transistor"? 

It makes no sense to share drivers among colors.


----------



## thesteve

oddly those were never populated (the other 4 transistors)
each head assy has 2 colors on it that share a power supply
each NPN/PNP pair is used to drive AC to a head, then the controller chip grounds each jet of the head individually
never found a schematic for it, but the config is a common amp circuit
you have 1 transistor pull the output to + the other pull it to -
what i know is from tracing out the circuit myself


----------



## thesteve

the reason 1 transistor shorted would kill 2 colors, but not power is it would effectively kill the AC channel shared by 2 colors, but only short the supply in pulses when attempting to print


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> oddly those were never populated (the other 4 transistors)
> each head assy has 2 colors on it that share a power supply
> each NPN/PNP pair is used to drive AC to a head, then the controller chip grounds each jet of the head individually
> never found a schematic for it, but the config is a common amp circuit
> you have 1 transistor pull the output to + the other pull it to -
> what i know is from tracing out the circuit myself


OK I couldn't see since only one view was presented.

Here is what I am struggling with ...

It appears you bought a defective printer thinking you could repair it, you tried replacing the transistors but you concluded the print head was defective because it sat too long unused _after_ the transistors failed since the transistor failure rendered it useless. It never crossed your mind the print head caused the transistors to go?

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-30.html#post2628514

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-30.html#post2653713

How could you determine that the print head was OK and not the root cause reason for the transistor failure in the first place?

In so many of these cases it was reported that a missing color manifested first before the flashing light problem occur. This meant the cause was the print head had a problem and the effect was transistors failed. Or do you not see the correlation?


----------



## thesteve

i bought a defective printer that powered on and printed, but was missing a color
after several attempts to clear the head the transistors shorted
replacing the transistors restored my original condition
tear-down of the head found it was completely filled with dry ink, that i was unable to effect with hot water or solvents
the head was not shorted, only plugged
repeated clean cycles killed the transistors


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> i bought a defective printer that powered on and printed, but was missing a color
> after several attempts to clear the head the transistors shorted
> replacing the transistors restored my original condition
> tear-down of the head found it was completely filled with dry ink, that i was unable to effect with hot water or solvents
> the head was not shorted, only plugged
> repeated clean cycles killed the transistors


But the root cause of the transistor failure was still a print head head problem. Yes? Cause was print head, effect was damaged transistors.

Perhaps you didn't have the benefit of seeing the threads here when the printers were dying very frequently. Nothing was to indicate in these cases that the transistors "just wore out" on their own and caused a missing color. 

The expired inks were blamed, even if this wasn't the case the missing color(s) happened first, then the other issues followed. _So a print head problem manifested first._ Changing transistors won't resolve that.

Maybe this particular case the only reason for failure is a transistor that failed on it's own? I doubt it.


----------



## thesteve

yes its related
no it didnt fail again
yes the head issue preceded it
that is why i said if it was printing ok before


----------



## mgparrish

thesteve said:


> yes its related
> no it didnt fail again
> yes the head issue preceded it
> that is why i said if it was printing ok before


OK here's my real point.

You stated 

"Ok this printer is now power flash like the others
It was throwing an error I couldn't clear
It wasn't pumping ink to 1 head
Cause was a shorted transistor on the main board"

Now another gentleman is chasing down parts based on your statements and is going down the same path you went down and is very likely to have the same results.

I think a rational discussion was in order.

Just saying ....


----------



## thesteve

fair enough


----------



## Annaclara

It seems to be the power board (MPW) on the left side. There are 2 fuses on it.
Try to have these new.
What a pitty, it's not the powerboard.
Is there anybody who got a working mainboard for spare?


----------



## flwjr2005

Annaclara said:


> It seems to be the power board (MPW) on the left side. There are 2 fuses on it.
> Try to have these new.
> What a pitty, it's not the powerboard.
> Is there anybody who got a working mainboard for spare?


Can you send a picture of where the fuses are located? Can they be replaced?


----------

