# Dtg pretreatment machine



## rushimprints (Mar 26, 2011)

I have a Ana Jet Sprit printer. I have been using a Wagner Sprayer to pretreat the Dark Color Shirts,
I am currently looking to upgrade to a Pretreatment Machine. Does any on know about the Viper Pretreatment Machine?? or does anyone recommend a different Pretreat Machine??


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

There are three manufacturers of pretreating machines in the U.S. right now:
- Equipment Zone - Direct-to-Garment Printers, Ink, Parts & Support | Equipment Zone | DTG, Screen Printing Equipment, Heat Presses 
- iGroup Technologies - ViperXPT.com
- Lawson - www.LawsonSP.com - Manufacturers of Quality Screen and Digital Printing Equipment and Supplies 

All of them have their pros / cons to them. Do you research and you will see what I am talking about.

Best wishes,

Mark


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## rushimprints (Mar 26, 2011)

Thanks Mark
Do you currently own a pretreat machine? If so which one and how do you like it?


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

These things are overrated & overpriced..


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

I thought the same thing (having had a Lawson Pretreat Express in our shop for almost a year that we never use), but after using the Viper at multiple trade shows recently, I am convinced that I want one. The amount of control it gives you is unrivaled, and it really does help reduce your pretreatment costs (not only in fluid savings / consistency, but also in labor overhead)..... The initial cost is high, but take one look inside that thing and you'll know where the money went. When I can justify the investment, I'll get one for sure!


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

rushimprints said:


> I have a Ana Jet Sprit printer. I have been using a Wagner Sprayer to pretreat the Dark Color Shirts,
> I am currently looking to upgrade to a Pretreatment Machine. Does any on know about the Viper Pretreatment Machine?? or does anyone recommend a different Pretreat Machine??


How many shirts are you doing a day? these pretreat machines need alot of maintenance and the end of the day. 

Whats problems are you having with your current pretreat methods?

Here is a helpful post..

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dtg-pretreatment/t148669.html


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## rushimprints (Mar 26, 2011)

We are using a Wagner Sprayer and seem to be going thru to much pretreatment. Would like to switch over to a good machine to help save the pretreat solution over the long run


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

rushimprints said:


> We are using a Wagner Sprayer and seem to be going thru to much pretreatment. Would like to switch over to a good machine to help save the pretreat solution over the long run


Which gun? can you post a picture of your pretreat station?


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## HPS (May 13, 2010)

rushimprints said:


> Thanks Mark
> Do you currently own a pretreat machine? If so which one and how do you like it?


We bought the viper, then we ended up in one off hell for a few months. Did not even use it which was upsetting but I was not going to use for 1-3 shirts. We use a spray bottle from dollar store with 50/50 mix. Then we got like 400+ shirts to do. Man that machine rocked for us. After the 3rd use 1 nozzle did get a little clog which went away after the 3rd spray so we do now soak the nozzles. My operators and I love the unit so far. It is pricey but it does a great and consistent job for us so far so good. If business keeps up I expect to have my money back in 6 months as I use a flat rate factor for pre treatment per side in my pricing.


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## rushimprints (Mar 26, 2011)

Well I bit the bullet and bought the Viper. I will let you know how it works. Thanks for everyones responses


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## Duds88 (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi
Any update? does it work ok or are there loads of clogging problems?

Cheers
Cameron


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## rushimprints (Mar 26, 2011)

We love it. It is great for pre-treating 50 pieces or more. I requires a little maintenance but nothing that is too bad. It is also great on the overspray and cuts way down on the waste of too much pretreatment


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

Duds88 said:


> Hi
> Any update? does it work ok or are there loads of clogging problems?
> 
> Cheers
> Cameron


We purchased a Viper and have a lot of problems with clogging. We are on our 3rd set of tips in 3 months. Yes when it works it is great, but it seems almost impossible to keep the tips from clogging. We use dupont pretreat, we break the machine down each day, use the clean cycle, brush and wash the tips, soak them, but cannot get more than about 3 weeks out of them. I think the tips should be made out of super hard plastic, not stainless steel, which appears to rust in one hour. If anyone knows how to keep the machine running I would love to hear from them.


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## VP Print (Jul 1, 2011)

I used to use a Wagner sprayer and now have a Viper Xpt-6000. I will never go back to the spray gun.

Performance has been great and consistent, have not had a single issue with clogging using Brother pretreat. Viper recommends weekly flushes but that has not been necessary for us. I flush the machine and clean the spray tips once every month or so with Viper's AntiVenom cleaner. I could wait even longer between cleaning but I feel it's best not to push your luck too far.
Great control over how much pretreat you lay down and where you lay it with the ability to switch any combination of nozzles on or off.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I gotta hand it to Viper, when I first called them to check pricing and they told me 7k, I thought they wouldn't find a single buyer.

For now, we still use the wagner it works great for $80. Hopefully there will be better alternatives on the market soon.


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

> overrated & overpriced..


Overpriced yes, Viper by iGroup Overated, HELL NO!


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## JohnL (Nov 23, 2010)

The Viper is a great if not the best option for pretreating.


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## Diver86 (Dec 6, 2006)

helenh said:


> ... We are on our 3rd set of tips in 3 months. Yes when it works it is great, but it seems almost impossible to keep the tips from clogging. We use dupont pretreat... I think the tips should be made out of super hard plastic, not stainless steel, which appears to rust in one hour. If anyone knows how to keep the machine running I would love to hear from them.


*Here is a picture of a Viper Tip after spraying Dupont pretreatment. Take a careful look very closely....

What most people "think" is rust or corrosion is simply PT residue that turns brown and crusty when exposed to air.

Notice how the stainless steel tip has NOT been affected.

If this residue is not cleaned properly using the recommended chemical (Viper Anti-Venom) this residue becomes almost impossible to remove.*


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## Diver86 (Dec 6, 2006)

*Here are Before & After micro pics of Viper tips using Brother pretreatment. 

The pretreatment was dried on the tips for over 12 months. (over 1 year). When they were removed from a Viper during production, only bottled water and a toothbrush was used to clean them before storage. 

Warm Viper Anti-Venom solution was used in an ultrasonic bath for 30 minutes. Then scrubbed with a toothbrush.

As you can see, cleaning removed 100% of PT residue.

Brother PT will break down and clean much easier than the Dupont formula. Once the Dupont formula is allowed to dry, it is difficult to remove completely.*


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

I agree those tips looks perfect.
But my argument with you and Brian is that when I was buying your machine I told my salesperson that I used dupont ink and pretreat and was told repeatly the machine worked on all pretreatments. But it does not. I returned my tips after 3 weeks using depont so I cannot put a picture up here, but they were completely clogged and red with rust. If you use dupont you have to set the machine up, use it and immediately break it down, flush it with distilled water and do 3 or 4 runs through with distilled water, then leave the tips in Simple green. Anti venom and dupont pretreatment react together and form a goopy slimy red liquid. I am not mixing the two, but the residue from the tips after you take them out, if you dont thoroughly wash them in distilled water, if you just take them off and drop them in the anti venom (which is what we were told to do) then the two react.
The machine works GREAT when it works, it just is not convenient owning one and having dupont friendly equipment.


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## davitos (Sep 5, 2007)

go get antivenom and soak it - also ask for the new dupont pretreat!!! we dont have any problems with it!


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## Tiger Wizard (Feb 22, 2011)

Duds88 said:


> Hi
> Any update? does it work ok or are there loads of clogging problems?
> 
> Cheers
> Cameron


we are having clogging and banding issues. the machine sprays what we like to call tire tracks, two stripes down either side of the shirt. we tried new tips, new head, new bottle attachements, cleaned and flushed lines to no avail. advice and input would be greatly appreciated.
andrew @ fallen arrows


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

All you should use is Venom solution and it should clear right up


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## Diver86 (Dec 6, 2006)

WholesalePrint said:


> All you should use is Venom solution and it should clear right up


*
The full name is: "ANTI-Venom" for the maintenance and cleaning solution used in all types of pretreat equipment.

i-Group Technologies also manufactures "Venom" which is the pre-treatment itself.*


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## Tiger Wizard (Feb 22, 2011)

has anyone used the "Venom" pretreatment solution with Dupont Inks? Will this work>?


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

I was told repeatedly but many people, more experienced than me, never to do this. That you have to use the same pretreat with the same ink. Dupont with dupont. Brother with Brother, Kornit with Kornit. They are made in tandem. Guess you should try and report back here! good luck with it


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## Diver86 (Dec 6, 2006)

*You are mostly correct. Brother and Kornit each have their own chemistry that matches their ink. You can not substitute.

All other Direct-to-Garment machines use DuPont chemistry. There are many generic versions, but they all use similar chemistry equations. So, there are many manufacturers of compatible pretreatments. 
What makes each one different is the quality and quantity of the active ingredients. There is a difference, so test different ones to determine which one works best for you.*


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## Tiger Wizard (Feb 22, 2011)

hey thanks for all the information. I'm trying to find a solution for the continual clogging of my Pretreat Nozzle tips, and I'm willing to try pretty much anything, so long as i can clean them, and keep them clean, I currently use DuPont Inks, and DuPont Pretreats, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, the DuPont pretreat can be a real hassle to keep clean. I was looking for a different chemistry that might be easier to clean/maintain. Will using Viper Venom pretreat, and Anti-Venom clean easier? In other words, are these two products meant only to be used together? I currently use the Anti-Venom, but not the Venom pretreat. I also just ordered a sonic bath to try that approach. Thanks again for your help.

turns out I had too many messages in my forums inbox, so I just reposted the PM here, thanks for your patience Diver86


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Does Viper has a filter on the hose end that is attached to the pretreatment container?


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## Tiger Wizard (Feb 22, 2011)

Smalzstein said:


> Does Viper has a filter on the hose end that is attached to the pretreatment container?


I'm using the DTG PreTreat-R GEN 2, but yes, I've got a filter cap on the intake.

I'm not sure about the Viper XPT or the ViperOne machines, but would imagine that they do.


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

My viper cloggs all the time as well. I use the dupont. You pretty much have to use it, then immediately break it down and clean it up, always leave distilled water in it, and only use distilled to wash up the tips and leave the tips in the venom, but if you leave it overnight just once, they clogg. The dupont pretreat eats everything, the overspray eats whatever is left lying around, including pieces of the viper itself.


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## adiscw (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi guys, how much is pretreatment liquid per litre generally?


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

adiscw said:


> Hi guys, how much is pretreatment liquid per litre generally?


70 bucks a litre


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## Diver86 (Dec 6, 2006)

helenh said:


> 70 bucks a litre


*Can I be your supplier? Haha . Pretreatment for the Dupont type white ink, sells for $20-$30 per liter and $80-$100 for 4 liter. Pretreatment for polyester and CMYK inks is a little more. 
For simplicity and ease of conversion, a liter is about a quart and 4 liter is about a gallon.*


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

Diver86 said:


> *Can I be your supplier? Haha . Pretreatment for the Dupont type white ink, sells for $20-$30 per liter and $80-$100 for 4 liter. Pretreatment for polyester and CMYK inks is a little more.
> For simplicity and ease of conversion, a liter is about a quart and 4 liter is about a gallon.*


my bad sorry I meant 70 per gallon


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## Pinkribbemb (Apr 2, 2012)

Go to your local Body Shop supply store and get some Automotive Lacquer thinner, soak the nozzles in there whenever the machine is not in use, even if its for 2 hours of the day, soak the nozzles. Anything else you try to use will not work effectively, you may think it is but you'll notice streaking or clogging. Ive used the same 2 nozzles for 2 years on thousands of shirts, with no problems UNLESS I fail to soak the nozzles. In that case, they get a good soaking for a couple days. I also blow them out with a basketball needle hooked directly to an air chuck (super tiny tip blasts well) just wear glasses or goggles.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

The new Image Armor pretreatment coming out this month is suppose to be much easier on the machines. Only time will really tell though.


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## nestea683 (Feb 24, 2016)

I recommend Equipments zones speed treater tx. Works great and easy to clean.


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