# Dye Sublimation Problem On Brushed Metal UniSub



## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

I am doing some temporary work in a shop with a Ricoh Printer using Sawgrass dye sublimation products on brushed aluminum UniSub metal. The problem is that where the paper is on the metal I get a haze (most of the time) only were the transfer paper contacts the metal. My boss has been transferring with the peel away plastic on the metal; I have been transferring without the plastic. The boss often get blurring dye sub image at 400f 60lbs pressure for 60seconds; I get clear images but most of the time his blotchy haze appears (that does not rub off). I am doing 400f 45lbs. pressure for 45seconds. on occasion I get images that are flawless but it is not consistent. Please Help.

Thank you in advance.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

That clear plastic wrapper is there only to protect the product during shipping. You have to remove it for printing. When I do aluminum water bottles I use a wrap. I keep it tight enough so that the paper doesn't shift position, but not so tight as to crush or dent the bottle. Then I bake at 400F for 5 minutes. I have never had the haze problem. You might want to lessen the time or the temp or maybe even the pressure. Also put a layer of paper or teflon between the image paper and the press. I also drop them into cool water afer pressing while the paper is still on the bottle. The only time I've had that issue with a haze was when I was using a mug press on them. I think it just got too hot.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

that haze is comes from the temp and/or pressure being too high. Maybe even time too long. The coating is getting too soft and the paper gets stuck to it. 

Try backing off the pressure first, then lowering the temp mayve to 385-390. Then try 45-50 seconds. You will find a sweet spot. 

Blurriness comes from too much pressure... I always remove the plactic first. Even though the ink passes through it, I think the plactic has to affect the crispness of the art since the print is not in contact with the metal. Too much time also causes over-saturation which can look like blurriness.


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

x2 on backing the pressuire way off on Unisub Brushed metal. Conde has a video on thier support site about it.

DaveW


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

My guess is that it is not Unisub metal, but one of the less expensive brushed silver metals like Dynasub or Supermetals. They have a softer coating, that can get a haze if you press it with too much pressure. You are pressing the paper grain into to glossy coating of the metal. Unisub metal is way too hard to have that happen.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

What is on the back of the metal?
Yes, back off the pressure.
What paper are you using?


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

Hey I wanted to thank all of you, Thank you! I was able to get rid of the haze from the transfer paper sticking to the sublimation coating on the metal by going with 35-40lbs pressure at 380f for 23seconds, however I have run into another problem when covering a 11"x8" silver metal with black background (smaller (stuff seems to be flawless) so the black on the silver metal seems to be uneven the haze is gone but a light blotchy look has revealed itself to me when doing larger pieces, Any Ideas?

Thanks again.

Useing sawgrass ink with power rip driver for ricoh gx e3300n on R-tex paper I will check what it says on the back of the metal tomorrow.

You know about the metal type you may be right, again I will double check tomorrow.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Lighten your pressure some more.
Did you find out what brand of metal?


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

Conde_David,

I have had similiar problems with black on Unisub metals. I have lightened pressure to almost nothing and it still is a smoky black.

I have gotten good (excellent)blacks on white Unisub plaques in the past.

Is it a reasonable assumption that the Unisub metal would be better, or am I fighting another problem?

Thanks,

DaveW


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I have found the Unisub metal to be better.
I think he is not using Unisub metal.
But, might have been a bad lot.


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

Conde_David said:


> I have found the Unisub metal to be better.
> I think he is not using Unisub metal.
> But, might have been a bad lot.


Doh! I mispoke in my post. I have been having trouble with the Dynasub metal.

I will try Unisub for a while and see if that is better. I know we did some Unisub plaques last spring with a large black filled section with text in it, and the black was spectacular! I have not been able to get close to that black on straight metal, but I think It has been all Dynasub.

DaveW


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

It is dyna sub and here is the blotchy look I am getting.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd do that job with red anodized aliminum & just laser it


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

I agree it would look way better, however the boss would like to go all dye sublimation on awards and drop the laser and the engraver. I can get it to look cleaner but not consistently, and it seems the larger the area the less consistent the result. there is also a job that is inverted with white aluminum and black coverage which also looks blotchy.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

What paper?
Transfer method:

Transfer face up
Metal face down
Scratch paper on top

One handed pressure
60 seconds for a large piece


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

Paper is Tex-print (R) I think, metal- dye sub facing down, scratch paper on top of metal - yes, pressure is 30lbs, I'm unsure how psi relates to one handed pressure, temperature 380, time 25 seconds. more time seems to leave a haze from the paper which is undesirable.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Go lower on pressure


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

okay, thank you, I will try that on Tuesday.


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

Ive been busy with school work so I havn't had a chance to get back here and reply. Here is what has happened, I went lower on pressure and the splotches increased, while the detail looks better the overall look is terrible. Now the boss said to press it with the plastic on, so I have, the color saturation is excellent.
The problem is that the images tend to be slightly blurry so smaller letter on 2" medals is lost (like 10-12 point fonts) The only way I was able to make the image appear clearer with the plastic on was to give a very small white outline around the edges of graphics that are on dark backgrounds. Now without the plastic there is no need for this additional work on the graphics and the images are even clearer than the ones that I've used the outline on when sublimating through the plastic, however I still think that the correct way to go is without the plastic but it seems no matter what I do the variables either give a splotchy sublimation result or a the transfer paper leaves an undesirable finish which looks like the paper has actually melted to the sublimation coating on the metal. 
At this point Ive tried low pressure at lower temps 260f and low application time 25seconds Ive change the time from 25 to 40 at the same settings and again stepping up into 3minutes. Then tried to go with lower time and lower pressure and higher temperatures up to 380f. this did not work even with higher pressure and more time. finally I tried lower highter heat higher pressure and less to more time. It's getting to the point of being ridiculous. I can not get good even results with any setting I've attempted, and Ive tried just about everything I could think of. I don't really expect a response at this point but I did wan to update the thread as being yet unresolved.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Give me a call.


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## okiebruce (Dec 15, 2009)

I had a batch of dynasub that would do that. The only way it would sublimate without the splotches was to sublimate through the plastic film. I ordered from a different company and everything was fine. I guess just a bad batch of coating.

380-400 degrees
med to firm pressure
50 seconds
plastic peeled is my normal set-up

If there is quite a bit of black in the image, I will increase the time to 60 seconds.

If you have some gold brass for engraving, you might try sublimating a piece of that with your normal settings and compare it to your unisub and check for your splotches.

Bruce


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## SublimatorToo (Jan 15, 2009)

With all due respect, whoever is saying to leave on the protective film is wrong.

If you leave it on, you are requiring the dye to go through it before going into the surface on the metal. It won't all go through and that which does gets diffused. That means it gets fuzzy. It would be like you looking at the world through a sheet of waxed paper. Try it.

Your press is also a consideration. If you do not have even heating over the platten, you'll get strange results.

One of those entry level George Knight presses for instance will not give the same operational results as a higher end model. I know from experience.

Have also found that pretty much all Unisub stock uses identical pressing time, pressure and temperature. Those specific numbers will depend on your conditions and vary depending on the characteristics of your press. 

I've had lots of other issues with Unisub metals but never what you are experienceing. I also had bad stuff from Rowmark. I've found that getting the supplier or manufacturer to admit that they have a bad batch is harder than flying to Pluto and back. Viurtually never happens. They always try to pass the buck to you. They are perfect.

If you are really stuck you can always send someone else the file and ask them to run off a test on a different system and see what results you get.


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## Supporterstuff (Oct 25, 2007)

From our experience of pressing metal (we do about 500 sheets a month) and if your coating is a bit oft like it seems, you should have a lower temp. Your time is to short as well which you are having to revert to as the temp it to high. 365 for 50 secs is what I would have a go at with firm pressure. Light pressure will result in further blotchiness.

As has been said, always remove the plastic first. Transfer image face up and metal surface face down.

Do you ever get the paper sticking to the coating?


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

blotchiness at super low pressure is because you are not making great contact evenly across the piece. 

You can preheat a teflon foam pad, then use it on top. 

remove the plastic film.

I have this same problem with 2" disks I bought from Western. They ended up being some off brand. 
The coating gets too soft and the texture of the paper was sticking. Backing off the temp & the pressure was the fix. My press does not have a pressure gauge (PhxPhire16x20) but it barely snaps shut. I use a piece of paper underneath, then the pieces (metal side up), then another piece of paper, and finally a teflon sheet.


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## manicprints (May 27, 2009)

So the shop that I was working for is continuing to sub through the plastic. I was given the I told you so speech from the boss and have since left. I explained that subbing with the plastic on is incorrect and even though we are seeing good color saturation with less than satisfactory results in resolution. Anyway I wanted to thank everyone as I am no longer helping out at the company that does the dye sub I will never know what is going wrong.


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## Jason's_Place (Nov 1, 2009)

I am having the same thing happening tonight with dynasub metal.


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