# Retail VS Screen Printing/Vinyl graphics business ?



## Earthdome (Feb 25, 2011)

Okay , so I have decided I am going to get assistance with starting a business through my local DVR (vocational rehabilitation office)

As far as there help starting a business goes they do a feasibility study to determine if the business is viable. If approved, they then begin funding my project. I have already approached them with my screen printing plan (and I am meeting with them again TOMORROW) So this is really my last chance if I want to make changes to my plan. 

Okay, well I have an entrepreneurial spirit and have been interested in screen printing for over 10 years. I have since been spending a lot of my free time researching and acquiring equipment... however I have only printed a couple 1 color designs and my initial intentions were to do it as a basement project and do online sales with my products. 

However, I do have ALL the necessary start up equipment (for a small shop), including heat presses, and a vinyl cutter. Only NEED I have for high production right now is a conveyor dryer. And I have a lot going for me in the way of resources and connections, (an accountant(my mom), designers, web designer, family in embroidery etc..) 

Also I have researches and found a great area that has a huge gap, and could be a perfect area to start a screen printing shop. But it is a 40 minute drive from my home. And given my limited experience in actual screen printing... I am not sure if this is the right decision.

But ALSO, I just so happen to live in an extremely HIGH foot traffic tourist area.. where there is a LOT of money and is a HUGE area for people tourists to come visit and they SPEND MONEY. Not to mention it's right in my back yard and no commute!

Several Idea's come to mind, including candy store, novelty items, many others. The rent is High.... but the traffic is truly there, and people with big pockets VERY frequently visit here. I feel I would have slow times in the winter season, and would have to find justification in that, or a need that would serve LOCALS as well as tourists, that would sell in the off season.

Given the focus and the years I have spent "dreaming" about screen printing and investing.... am I thinking the wrong way ?? Am I am not looking hard enough at the long term?... or the potential for the screen printing and vinyl signs to grow? The agency helping me will stick with me like 3 years to assure success.

And I DO understand that You don't need "special" funding or anyone to help... but I AM partially disabled , and it does affect my ability to retain a good job. (Just got fired again, and I know it's because of my disability) , no matter how hard I try and go above and beyond... it still comes down to "he could be a liability" and I know that's what there thinking. So I feel I need to UTILIZE the help in the best possible way, and that at this point I feel running a business is my ONLY hope. 

My initial goal with the screen printing set up was to do custom stuff (in my house or basement) , including the vinyl graphics ... to sell online. And perhaps in the future offer it as a service on the side to those in need. Perhaps it could help fund the retail venture (should I decide to do that) ? 

Really looking for any input! .


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## Earthdome (Feb 25, 2011)

Can I just give one more chance to bump this thread, I am down to the wire here. Would like to hear from screen printers or anyone involved in Any kind of business really.. Would appreciate any thoughts...


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

The problem you will have is paying rent for retail space but putting manufacturing equipment in. You need to split out your rent and pay retail prices for the showroom and warehouse prices for the production area. You will really have a hard time of it if you cannot do that. 

As an example (rents in SoCal are really high) you can expect to pay $3/sqft/mo for retail and 80c/sqft/mo for warehouse. If you have 1500 sqft and you pay 3 bux for all of it you are paying 4 times too much to put a screen press, embroidery machine, storage, etc. in there. 

Given all of that your prices need to be much higher than what you would normally charge. 

Also, you are going to be selling basically one-offs and stock designs if you are in a tourist area. Your costs on the one-offs are going to be higher so you will be selling custom t-shirts for $25-$35 each.


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## Earthdome (Feb 25, 2011)

binki said:


> The problem you will have is paying rent for retail space but putting manufacturing equipment in. You need to split out your rent and pay retail prices for the showroom and warehouse prices for the production area. You will really have a hard time of it if you cannot do that.
> 
> As an example (rents in SoCal are really high) you can expect to pay $3/sqft/mo for retail and 80c/sqft/mo for warehouse. If you have 1500 sqft and you pay 3 bux for all of it you are paying 4 times too much to put a screen press, embroidery machine, storage, etc. in there.
> 
> ...


Hey Binki, thanks for the tips. I really think you have the wrong idea about what i'm trying to determine. I think my post was perhaps too lengthy and confusing a bit. 

I don't want to do anything with screen printing in my home town. I have found a niche area for that that has a larger population, just questioning if there may be something better out there which would allow me to utilize my help with funding. 

I was trying to point out that where I live there is high traffic tourist area and potential for other businesses. 

Like what if I used the screen printing on the side and online to help fund an actual retail shop (hopefully with low overhead).. I just think perhaps there is a business out there that won't take all the chemicals, hard work, and some high stress situations. 

As mentioned I have equipment, but not a whole lot of experience. I dont know I am going to have to ask for more time to research things out. One bad decision and it could be the one shot I had to do something (and get help with funding) ... so I want don't want to misfire ! 

I have confidence in my promotional items business, but have a lot of learning curves, (not that I think I can't overcome) .. but curves none the less. 

Being an entrepreneur I can't help being optimistic about what other possibilities I may be passing up. 

Thank for the reply


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Earthdome said:


> Like what if I used the screen printing on the side and online to help fund an actual retail shop (hopefully with low overhead).. I just think perhaps there is a business out there that won't take all the chemicals, hard work, and some high stress situations.


In said scenario, screening is Plan B and the retail shop is plan A. If B is required for the success of A then, frankly, A sucks. It is up to you to figure out a realistic way to make either A or B stand on their own. If neither is feasible then there is nothing wrong with abandoning them in the planning stage and moving to another area. There is no way that your (lack of) plan would pass a feasibility review as currently presented.

You need to have a realistic goal before developing a plan. Your goal is all over the place.



Earthdome said:


> My initial goal with the screen printing set up was to do custom stuff (in my house or basement) , including the vinyl graphics ... to sell online.


The two are not related.

There is absolutely no need to invest in equipment for a service that is so readily, easily and cheaply outsourced as screen printing. You have a disability that you fear may be an issue with production, zero experience at the craft itself, zero equipment and zero experience with maintenance and repair of the equipment. Farm the production to those that have the years of experience and the equipment to do it with. Focus your time, effort, energy and money on sales and promotion. Have you considered a vinyl cutter, heat press, plastisol transfers and leaving the equipment purchases at that? Are all or any of them needed?

Do you have any experience with managing people? Do you have any experience with bookkeeping? With AP/AR? Inventory? Providing quotes? Analyzing received quotes? Itemization? Negotiating costs? Bartering goods -vs.- goods? In the flesh sales? Online marketing and SEO? Targeted advertising? Pricing overhead? Binding contracts? Developing return, payment and deposit policies? Is it even legal for you to screen out of your home to begin with? Most cities make a distinction between residential and commercial sewer lines. It varies from city to city as to what is defined as a home business and to what scale they can operate.

There's also a whole slew of questions to be asked about your capabilities in the programs needed to make your custom artwork.

Running a business is hard and stressful work regardless of what your product or service. If you answered "No." to the majority of the questions about the back end of business then I would suggest finding something that A.) You enjoy doing B.) Already have the skill and ability to do at a professional level and C.) Can realistically live comfortably off of while saving and investing for the future as well.

Business is full of costly learning curves, especially on start up. Do everything that you can to eliminate as many as curves as possible before you take another step. Ideally your business plan for the short term will feature more bullet points that highlight a series of ROIs (that is in turn reinvested) than a list of items that amount to dead money. Mid term Part One status may show less direct reinvesting and the building of a bankroll. The bankroll would be intended for a specific goal. Perhaps in this thread's example the money would be used to bring screen printing in house. Mid term Part Two would be reaching the dollar amount needed for said purchases. This is the time to reevaluate the need and desire to bring the screening in house. If it's decided that it is then you would make the purchases that are needed and begin your introduction into that area of production while continuing to outsource it until you can consistently achieve professional level results. Make that transition if/when the time comes and start making the ROI back on the screening equipment.

One last recommendation if you're still with me. Contact your local SBA and request to speak with a financial adviser who provides guidance for those with "new money" and wanting to start a business. This person will focus less on the details of the numbers and more on sociology factors and personal traits. Not to the extent of a psychologist by any means but more along the line of making sure that you are very much aware of what it takes to run a business on an emotional and mental level and how to jump any obstacles that will be thrown at you.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We planned on 3 years to become profitable and have done it in half the time. The growth is very painful as we are working all day and most of the night 6 and 7 days a week to keep up. What we have is a small space with a reasonable rent and a lot of foot traffic. That brings in several new customers a week and referrals bring in the rest.


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## Earthdome (Feb 25, 2011)

rawbhaze said:


> In said scenario, screening is Plan B and the retail shop is plan A. If B is required for the success of A then, frankly, A sucks. It is up to you to figure out a realistic way to make either A or B stand on their own. If neither is feasible then there is nothing wrong with abandoning them in the planning stage and moving to another area. There is no way that your (lack of) plan would pass a feasibility review as currently presented.


First, thanks a lot for chiming in on this thread Robb, I GREATLY appreciate it, and thank you for your input in my previous posts.

I agree with you, I need to stick to one thing here and quit getting side tracked. I am just trying to determine what I am going to be happy with and love to wake up to every morning, to where it doesn't feel like i'm going to work.

I feel I am passionate enough about screen printing, but can't help thinking about what else might be out there. 
For instance I see already established businesses on Craigslist, recently seen a thrift store and an antique store going for cheap and could see myself running something like that and being happy. And I could modify the business to make it more profitable. Also I live in a HIGH foot traffic tourist area so starting something new could be big money fast (and right in my back yard). Things like novelty items or candy store come to mind. 

At the same time I do enjoy working with artwork and like troubleshooting and don't mind the labor, and do not have an issue with my disability and screen printing. It is only seen as a potential hazard to industrial places I have worked. 

Like you said "there is nothing wrong with abandoning them" Well I am just making sure I can't find any reason why I should abandon screen printing. I have experienced trying to start a small print shop inside a friends vinyl shop years ago but not nearly enough marketing was done. And I admit, my first job was a pain in the *** and the couple jobs I did I ended up having him cut a stencil for me because I couldn't figure out my exposure unit. Had a wash out booth I built that leaked everywhere and the experience for the most part was a nightmare, and honestly that first job kinda scared the crap out of me. That was short lived, but was a learning experience. 

So I don't want to give the impression that I am not capable, or have absolutely zero experience. For sure I have learning curves, but all my years of research and study has to have to some value?

And given the amount of resources available, not through just the web. But have friends with sp shops, graphic designer, web developer, an Aunt who owns an embroidery shop. (where my inspiration began) and my mother "the accountant". (plan on spending time at my friends shop get more hands on experience). 

Having said all that, I met with this training center (that was contracted by the workforce center) (potential funders) for the second time in 2 weeks. We are currently in the feasibility phase, then its on to the business plan after that.

I have been sticking to my guns with the printing idea and have been very confident and giving many details and print outs containing research I have done and what my goals are. I give business plan details and she doesn't seem too concerned about that (yet), but feel I am ahead of the game. 

One thing I am still undecided about is if I should start in my basement and a website and build it from there, or move directly into my target location with the hopes of growing fast. Also had thoughts of including retail with my sp shop, but not yet able to justify that. However I see potential. 

She asked last time to provide a list of equipment I had and also things I need. Gave her a list of what I had, and that I would need some chemicals (roughly $200 worth), and other basic office equipment like fax machine etc. And told her 1st need for high production would be a conveyor dryer, then possibly a WF digital printer, or a DTG machine. However I stressed that these would likely come later in the business plan when I can justify the need. I am buying a Workforce 1100 this week, but not sure if I want to use it for heat transfers or sublimation yet. Also she wanted me to research the price for insurance, (told her roughly 1900 a yr) (estimate). As far as equipment needed I am going to get back at her with another list, and told her it would be ever changing (as with the business plan itself). 

Here is my list of equipment I provided her so you can see what i'm working with: 

4 Color 2 Station Atlas table top press, $2100.00
Graphtec CE-3000-60 vinyl cutter (24") $1500
Home made UV exposure unit. $150
Flash dryer $200
one heat press $300
one hat press $200
50 screens $1,000
Bolt of mesh $300
Assortment of different inks, squeegee's $200
Epson 1400 (needs ink) $200
Illustrator/Photoshop $600
Fast rip $400
Ink jet transparency film 100 sheets $80
150 mixed size black shirts $400
200 different kinds of hats. $350
Home Made screen storage racks $75
Pressure washer $100 
makeshift washout booth $75.
Several rolls of t-shirt Vinyl $300
epson nx 420 printer $65
Jacket hold down $100
Various chemicals $40

(this is by no means what I paid for these things, but she wanted value.) 



rawbhaze said:


> You need to have a realistic goal before developing a plan. Your goal is all over the place.


I feel I have a good plan, just is it the right one ? I will never forgive myself if I pass up something that could have been far more profitable quicker, or more realistic to what I actually want to do. 



rawbhaze said:


> There is absolutely no need to invest in equipment for a service that is so readily, easily and cheaply outsourced as screen printing. You have a disability that you fear may be an issue with production, zero experience at the craft itself, zero equipment and zero experience with maintenance and repair of the equipment. Farm the production to those that have the years of experience and the equipment to do it with. Focus your time, effort, energy and money on sales and promotion. Have you considered a vinyl cutter, heat press, plastisol transfers and leaving the equipment purchases at that? Are all or any of them needed?


Good info, (as stated before) my disability is not an issue. I have a lot of experience marketing so feel I am in good standing with that, and that will very much be what I will be focusing on. And I most certainly will outsource anything I can't handle . Plastisol transfers I have considered for a "front of shop" service, along with promotional items and sublimation. 

But I think I need to slow down with having all this equipment and printing options, because (at least to start) I plan on doing it all myself. But will contract people to come in and help, and if the need for an employee is justified.. then so be it. 

As for the other statements I think I addressed them above.



rawbhaze said:


> Do you have any experience with managing people? Do you have any experience with bookkeeping? With AP/AR? Inventory? Providing quotes? Analyzing received quotes? Itemization? Negotiating costs? Bartering goods -vs.- goods? In the flesh sales? Online marketing and SEO? Targeted advertising? Pricing overhead? Binding contracts? Developing return, payment and deposit policies? Is it even legal for you to screen out of your home to begin with? Most cities make a distinction between residential and commercial sewer lines. It varies from city to city as to what is defined as a home business and to what scale they can operate.


I have experience in most things mentioned, or the resource to get it done. As for target advertizing I am looking into a target market, and am thinking schools, and teams would be the best way to go. But not limiting myself to that either.

I still need to look into the legalities of running out of my basement. 



rawbhaze said:


> There's also a whole slew of questions to be asked about your capabilities in the programs needed to make your custom artwork.


Yes I am aware of the learning curves but I feel for the most part I will be dealing with simple designs, and if I can't handle it I will outsource. 



rawbhaze said:


> Running a business is hard and stressful work regardless of what your product or service. If you answered "No." to the majority of the questions about the back end of business then I would suggest finding something that A.) You enjoy doing B.) Already have the skill and ability to do at a professional level and C.) Can realistically live comfortably off of while saving and investing for the future as well.


I am pretty sure of myself that I am capable. But can't help thinking there might be a better fit, and perhaps something that doesn't take so much time to build and see profits. On one end I could see bringing a decent income just doing this on the side in my basement.. So wouldn't I want to look into other possibilities ? At least explore them ? Perhaps I can ask my my councilor to search for potential possibilities ? 



rawbhaze said:


> Business is full of costly learning curves, especially on start up. Do everything that you can to eliminate as many as curves as possible before you take another step. Ideally your business plan for the short term will feature more bullet points that highlight a series of ROIs (that is in turn reinvested) than a list of items that amount to dead money. Mid term Part One status may show less direct reinvesting and the building of a bankroll. The bankroll would be intended for a specific goal. Perhaps in this thread's example the money would be used to bring screen printing in house. Mid term Part Two would be reaching the dollar amount needed for said purchases. This is the time to reevaluate the need and desire to bring the screening in house. If it's decided that it is then you would make the purchases that are needed and begin your introduction into that area of production while continuing to outsource it until you can consistently achieve professional level results. Make that transition if/when the time comes and start making the ROI back on the screening equipment.


Extremely good info in here, thanks! I am trying to do everything I can to eliminate any learning curves. I don't see why I couldn't bring screen printing in house right away. Even if I have to outsource some. 



rawbhaze said:


> One last recommendation if you're still with me. Contact your local SBA and request to speak with a financial adviser who provides guidance for those with "new money" and wanting to start a business. This person will focus less on the details of the numbers and more on sociology factors and personal traits. Not to the extent of a psychologist by any means but more along the line of making sure that you are very much aware of what it takes to run a business on an emotional and mental level and how to jump any obstacles that will be thrown at you.


Oh i'm with ya  .. again extremely good info. 

I am going to call the SBA tomorrow and look for any resource to help with decisions. 

I realize the moves I make in the next couple weeks are going to shape my future is why I am being so careful and questioning things. Also a few comments people have made are making me step back and think if it's what I really want to do, which I don't feel is a bad thing. Just so many possibilities and doing anthing I can to make sure I make the best decisions. I do sincerely need to stick to one thing and stay focused, and head off any learning curves or road blocks in my path. And I am hoping with a good business plan and execution I could make this be more profitable than a retail shop. 

It's down to making a few more critical decisions, 

#1 Is this what I truly want to do as a business?, If so, what is the best location, do I include retail or just a small shop where I can have presence but still low overhead ? 

#2 Could I make the business just doing online sales of items (that I make) working from my basement and base a business plan on that ? or will the advent of a great location be key, and should I stick to the service end of it? 

#3 What services can I include (that have a minimal learning curve) that could make it more profitable? 

#4 Do I start off slow and take it in strides, or go big and get an auto press so I can handle high production?

I know these things are going to require more research, getting out in the field and making sure the market is there for what I can offer. Lot of work and deciding here yet, but I think (at least I hope) I am on the right track. 

Thanks again for your input Rob , very helpfull!


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

You are not seeing the big picture as evidenced by you adding sublimation to the pile heap despite having acknowledged that you were already spread too thin. It is my opinion that the reason hinges on two major points with other minor issues. The two major points appear to be your view of the money in which you may receive and a misinterpretation of what demand is. My opinion is based on the information and context that you have provided in this thread as well as what I have observed others do and have done myself.

The money:
New money. Windfall. Gifted. Whatever anyone wants to call it. It is my opinion that you would have a different outtake on running a business and the priorities thereof if you had significantly more at stake. You appear to be doing a decent amount of research so that you will be successful but I think you are doing so from the wrong perspective. Because you are not paying out of pocket, borrowing with an interest rate, partnering, being staked by an investor or any combination thereof, you do not seem to be grounded in the reality of what this is going to take and the best method of attack. As an example, all of the screening equipment that you want to purchase is dead money. The same money could be spent on much more important aspects that will yield you money now. The screening equipment will not *make* you money now. It will *save* you money over the long term. That, combined with you not having experience with screening, is why the equipment should be purchased down the road- if ever. The equipment should not be bought until the rest of the business is a well oiled machine with steady repeat accounts.

What supply and demand is and isn't:
You think that you have identified a market to cater to and perceive there to be a demand. Your product is not a new invention and does not take any kind of special construction or materials. In other words, filling the demand does not require you to be the producer of the physical goods. The production of the goods can be outsourced easily in a timely and cost effective manner. There is not financial incentive to do it yourself at this time. You are not the producer, you are the retailer. Again, in your hypothetical situation, the screening equipment will not make you money as it is not a service that only you can do for yourself in order to stock your inventory to then be able to sell to your customers. Time is money and any time that you spend at the printing press is wasted until you are legitimately and comfortably staffed.

Not only is time money but space is money as well. You will be paying a pretty penny for that space in a high traffic tourist spot. It's going to cost a nice chunk of change to have the space needed for the screening setup and a retail area. The chunk of change may be enough to negate the savings on doing the screening in house.

And if your solution to that is to do the screening at home then you are even further out of touch with what it's going to take to keep the doors of the retail shop open and maintain a normal life outside of the business. I'm guessing the shop will be open about 50 hours a week. Since you will be relying on the impulse buy of tourists you won't truly be setting your own hours. You'll be open when it's most lucrative to be so. That likely means opening mid-day and closing at nights. Probably open Wednesday through Sunday. Add in the time for commute and a handful of hours spent after hours in the office and you're easily at 60 hours. Don't get exhausted now! It's time to do some screening! Yeah buddy! Week after week after week after...


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## Earthdome (Feb 25, 2011)

binki said:


> We planned on 3 years to become profitable and have done it in half the time. The growth is very painful as we are working all day and most of the night 6 and 7 days a week to keep up. What we have is a small space with a reasonable rent and a lot of foot traffic. That brings in several new customers a week and referrals bring in the rest.


Congrats on cutting your projected time in half! I am sure it has taken you and a lot of hard work and dedication. 

Curious, you say "we".. how many of you is there? What services are you offering? Are you including any retail? 

Thanks for your reply...


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## Earthdome (Feb 25, 2011)

Rob , thanks again for your input. I need some constructive criticism. However I think you have the wrong impression about the way I want to go about things. I never said I wanted to start my screen printing shop in the tourist area. I only live close to this area and see it as a potential for something retail and not related at all to screen printing.

Not just this location, but I have considered possibilities in many area's and if I see an opportunity to jump into something that requires less physical work and had a higher demand, why not look into it ?? Convenience store, tobacco shop, or whatever...I mean what if I met the right person.. just ONE person (or a business adviser) could present me with a FOR SURE idea and location.. wouldn't that be a no brainer? 

BUT, I found a niche area for SCREENING and could find a cheap rent side warehouse or shared rent situation and focus on marketing?? Or stay closer and try and use competitors to my benefit. The place i'm looking at is 100 times bigger as far as population. 

I do agree that I would likely be doing better if I had "more at stake". And agree that perhaps I am not going about things the right way. What do you see as the best "plan of action" ? What would you do if given opportunity with help to start a business ?

And why do you say my equipment would be "dead money" ? Even if I can only do simple designs it will still be in house. I can see what you mean by filling the demand once there is a need and once things are running well. And I can easily see the need for an employee.. even just considering the equipment I already own. 

I also don't see how I can run a shop where everything is outsourced? Is there people doing this? I don't know of any print shops that outsource everything. I know someone who does trophy's and outsources sp and emb, but he still does the trophies in house. 

Are you saying to outsource to get cheap retail items made for the retail shop? You kind of confused me there... How could my equipment not make money ?

Can you give me some examples of better ways to utilize help/money ? I can see outsourcing things at first but wouldn't I want to quickly advance my production capabilities ?

And if you say "There is not financial incentive to do it yourself at this time" , then who should do it ? Where should my shop be located? Or my plan of action?

As far as the basement, my only thoughts were to make 100's of products (custom) .. to sell online , and guide the business plan towards acquiring many colors/sizes of shirts.. so I can offer designs on multiple platforms.... hence increasing then number of available products. Or could even order over sea's and include those products..?

And I don't see this money as a windfall! And i'm not taking it for granted. I seen people get hundreds of thousands for a traffic incident. I lost half of my left hand in and industrial punch press yielding 60 tons of pressure, and I got a measly workers comp case and had to wait years to see the peanuts that I did. And the company was 100% at fault and was operating illegally. But I don't cry and wine about it .. or never complain about it or even think about it. But when it comes down to it.. employers see it as a liability issue and has cost me several potential careers.... 

Well, don't want to make this too long .. thanks for your input again Rob.


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