# Is Craft Attitude / Avatrex killing dye sub



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

been reading a lot about craft Attitude / Avatrex and what all it can do it it seems like it can do most things dye sub can do but for a lot less $$.

It is not for doing t-shirts but just about everything else it will do.

Craft Attitude is the consumer version that comes in small inkjet sheets and Avatrex is the pro version that comes in rolls for large format printers.

It is a clear film like product that you inkjet print onto and then apply it to just about any surface.

It can be removable or permanent. With the pro version you can buy a coating that can be applyed first for permanent use or it can be heat applied using a heat gun, iron, or heat press.

It is a new product with in the last year or so.

You can even melt it onto a rock with full color image or photo.
The clear backing makes anything you place it on show thru so you can see wood grain on wood and any color or texture you place it on.

As for a replacement for dye sub. First no special dye sub surface is needed for anything so the cost is lower right off and no special inks are needed even more savings.

It can be used to make photo tiles even ruff tiles as it will heat blend into the ruff parts of the texture.

Photo panels even raw wood showing the wood texture, metal, aluminum, plastic, pvc, canvas, paper, porcelain, leather, glass and more. A lot of people are making photo jewelry with it to.

Just think put a image and text on just about anything with no dye sub product cost or ink and use any inkjet printer to print the product.
For novelty items i think this will be a game changer.

Sign makers are all ready printing using it to make custom business signs and window displays. It can also be used for back lit displays.

It will stick to cloth but it is not good for a t-shirt and with stand washing. 

I have a 44 inch wide format printer so i just ordered a 24 inch wide roll to start playing with it.

With the roll it cost $1.06 a sqr foot

here is the main company website Avatrex - the Worldâ€™s First Transportable Graphic


----------



## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

With the limitations it has with apparel and the fact it's that much per square foot, doesn't stand a chance vs. sublimation.

With hard substrates, it may be a viable contender but the cost is still way too high.

This product has been around for quite some time most exclusively for the craft market and do-it yourselfers. I don't see this working in a large production environment.


----------



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

From what i have been reading it has only been around for just over a year.

Cost wise it is less then Dye sub for times less for Hard boards and metal signs.

One of the reasons i quit doing much with dye sub was the cost to make even a simple item and be able to sell it for much profit was to much.

For excample as 11x14 Aluminum Photo Panel for dye sub is $950

A non dye sub 12x18 white panel is only $3 $650 less then dye sub and the ink to print it is much less and no special paper is needed.

The ChromaLuxe™ wood Panels MDF Board cost a outrages amount compared to cutting MDF to any size you want and just painting it white you will save over 75% or more on this.

Gloss DyeTrans™ Value Tile, Ceramic the cheep stuff cost $6.70 each
You can buy and use any tile in that size for a $1 or less saving you around $6 on each tile so you can sell your tiles for $6 less that someone who makes them with dye sub.

Bag tages can be made for 60% less

Just a small list of things that will cost a lot less doing it *with out* dye sub would be

Clocks. coasters , plates, License Plates that will last longer outside in the sun, Door Hangers, Most all wood gifts, Back packs, Books binders, Bag and dog tags, all award plaques wood, glass, plastic, Most all signs, note holders, Glass Cutting Boards, wine boxs, all Jewelry items, all holiday Ornaments and any you cut and shape them yourself, Gift boxs and a heck of a lot more.

I just got the test roll in today but still waiting on more ink and i will start printing some thing and see what all can be done with this.


----------



## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

The Avatrex product line was introduced in late 2011 and started rolling out in early '12. The film does have the edge when it comes to price but has limitations on textiles. Chromalux is definitely priced higher but honestly I bet if you compare the look of a metal sign blank with a print from a Chromalux panel, the Chromaluxe would most likely win the "wow" factor contest due to the finish and thickness of the panel itself. We dye sub metal sign blanks all the time and they don't hold a candle to the Chromalux panel. I bet that the pigment is more stable using an inkjet printer vs sub ink, though. Would have to do a UV test to be certain. That's my only problem with dye sub, unstable UV color fastness.

I'll be following this thread and would like to see some testing of products.


----------



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

Just looking at ink cost

If you are using SubliJet-R ink at $110 for only 68 ml of ink.

my printer uses 330 ml carts or 700 ml cars but for the most costly 330 ml carts i pay $173.

It takes 4.8 SubliJet-R ink carts to equal one of my 330 ml ink carts so that would cost $528 of ink of the SubliJet-R ink to equal my $173 cost of ink.


So the dye sub ink cost 3 times as much to print with then ad in your dye sub paper cost and the paper and ink cost are very close to what the cost of using the Avatrex is.

But with the Avatrex you product blank cost can be 50 to 80% less and you can find ir more easy and find more options of things to use.

Take a basic Aluminum License Plate a dye sub version in .030 cost $389

a blank non dye sub Aluminum License Plate at .032 a little thicker cost $150 $239 less then the dye sub version.

It will cost around $53 cents of the Avatrex plus very little ink cost to print this lest say 20 cents at best for a cost of $223 to make one.

Now dye sub $389 plus 17 cents for the paper plus say 80 cents for the ink as it cost over 4 times as much gives you a cost of $486

To do it with dye sub it cost $263 more to make this same item.

You can buy in bulk and the License Plates get even less in cost much less then buying in bulk for dye sub.

The larger the item the more it cost with dye sub


----------



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

{my only problem with dye sub, unstable UV color fastness}

The Avatrex uv protects the inkjet ink.
You print on the back of the Avatrex in reverse so when it is placed on a item the protective top layer that is uv protected is on the surface with you ink under it locking it in.

Then you can use standard inkjet ink that is not rated for outdoor use and the Avatrex will protect it for may years for outdoor use like a solivent outdoor ink.

From what i had read sign makers can use it outdoors with out using any laminating on the signs now with lower cost inks.

I am still reading as much as i can on it but when i get my ink in i will do a lot of tests on many surfaces to see how well it really works.
I hope it works as good as they say it dose as i do have big plans for it then.

Just got some sign blanks in today but most all are damaged in shipping. 

I have aluminum, PVC, _Coroplast_, Glass, Plastic, HDU Board, Hard board and wood to play with. I will pick up some tiles to.


----------



## engraver99 (Jul 27, 2009)

i would think it looks like a sticker with sticker edges on whatever it's on-not like a clean print. take a phone cover and cut the camera eye out for it i think would look amateurish as opposed to cleanly printed. it may cost less but prob doesn't give the professional results one would look for (my exp. with printed vinyl and attaching it to stuff).


----------



## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

My ink costs are actually cheaper than you think. 130.00 for 1000 ml. Also, if you're paying 3.89 for .030 sub plates, you need to keep shopping. Heck, I'll sell you .030 dye sub plates for 2.00 all day long.


----------



## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, your costings are way out...
£75 per litre of sublimation ink, and our sublimation transfer paper costs less than £1 per square metre, or £0.01 per mug transfer!
There's no way that putting a sticker onto our products would give as professional a result as sublimation for us to sell as a designer brand into retailers across the UK.
Your initial post reads more like a sales pitch for product I have never heard of, which you think may kill off sublimation, but doesn't sound as good in terms of quality of final product


----------



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

No sales pitch .. i have not even tried it yet my ink is still not in i am out of blank, yellow and blue.

I have done a good amount of novelty items and for low cost items most people would not care if they can see the edge on it or not.

So much stuff coming in from china is all stickers on just about everything and they do sell. We have 3 outlet stores here in town just full of this junk and people buy it up all day long.

I agree some things dye sub would be better for but a lot of things it would not matter.

I have some amazing large metal dye sub prints i had done for me and a lot of smaller ones i did myself up to 11x14.

But i also have photos on wood that are not dye sub from a place that dose this from a large prints you send them and they look just as good.

I have also printed lot of prints with my 8300 large format printer and when a print is behind glass they look super good.

I was a photographer for around 15 years we just sold our photography business just over a year ago and i was offering metal dye sub prints i loved them.
But they did not sell well at all.. we did sell some but most people still want the classic canvas print i myself like the metal prints better then canvas.


----------



## engraver99 (Jul 27, 2009)

I bet the chinese stickers that are applied are still cut by machine and not cut by hand with a pair of scissors or an xacto knife. so I would think they would still look better than this stuff cut by hand. I sure would hate to cut out a 100 license plates and the little oblong screw holes for them. Doesn't sound like this will be replacing sublimation anytime soon. my 2 cents might be good for scrap-booking and stuff.


----------



## ponypome (Oct 16, 2009)

did you have any luck with this stuff


----------



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

So far i do not like it and can not get it to go on well at all. Still testing but almost used a 25 foot roll and still not liking it.

For small items we can get it down ok not great but for larger items like 12x12 it seems to be impossible to get all the bubbles out no matter what we do.

Have tried many things and ways.

What works best so far is using the heat press at 325 for 20 seconds with using the special primer they have for it. Place on item with paper backing still on to help keep it flat. But still we end up with bubbles. Not something i could see selling to a customer like this.

So far very disipointed in it.

Have been applying it to wood and aluminum.


----------



## ponypome (Oct 16, 2009)

have you tried it at lower heats like you would do if you laminating something


----------



## EddieM (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes it wont stick well.

It almost works better with Elmer's glue we tested that to.


----------



## paintersspouse (Jul 26, 2012)

I have done a couple of tests with the Avatrex on leather. I am pretty happy with it. I have just done small 4 x 4" test swatches so far but I am going to do some larger pieces when the leather gets here.


----------

