# What you wish you knew about DTG



## AlypprintstheTee (Mar 29, 2017)

Hi everyone,

I'm just curious to find out some questions that you wished that you asked or things that you wished you knew before you got into DTG printing


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## lisapeakin (Jun 18, 2018)

I wish I had learned a lot more about pre-treating. Once you get it down it really is not big deal. But it is Messy and time consuming and sometimes, not very consistent with the outcome. When I got my DTG it came with a power sprayer, I had no Idea what that would come to mean. Also, the best printed shirts are on 100% Cotton...that is it. If folks want 50/50 it will not be as great of print as on 100% Cotton. I am sure for any DTG there is some equipment sitting that has to be done. You have to keep the inks flowing and it is not good for it to set idle for more than a couple of days. I also wish I had checked out the maintenance that has to be done ahead of time. Guess these are the main things I wish I knew before taking the plunge!


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## Mighty Me (Aug 28, 2017)

lisapeakin said:


> I wish I had learned a lot more about pre-treating. Once you get it down it really is not big deal. But it is Messy and time consuming and sometimes, not very consistent with the outcome. When I got my DTG it came with a power sprayer, I had no Idea what that would come to mean. Also, the best printed shirts are on 100% Cotton...that is it. If folks want 50/50 it will not be as great of print as on 100% Cotton. I am sure for any DTG there is some equipment sitting that has to be done. You have to keep the inks flowing and it is not good for it to set idle for more than a couple of days. I also wish I had checked out the maintenance that has to be done ahead of time. Guess these are the main things I wish I knew before taking the plunge!


Hi!

Which DTG do you have? Approximately how many shirts do you print a week, and if you don't mind sharing...knowing what you know now, would you still invest in a Direct to Garment printer? I ask because I am trying to decide between a cut / print solution and a DTG.


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## lisapeakin (Jun 18, 2018)

No I would not invest in a Direct to Garment Printer unless I knew I could print 100+ a week on it. I just believe they need to be kept printing ALL the time to be worth it. I have printed quite a bit, more when I first got it. The print is different to sell. The cut solution which I also have has been a much smarter investment.


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

lisapeakin said:


> I wish I had learned a lot more about pre-treating. Once you get it down it really is not big deal. But it is Messy and time consuming and sometimes, not very consistent with the outcome. When I got my DTG it came with a power sprayer, I had no Idea what that would come to mean.


 To get great consistent results printing on a DTG you need an automatic pre-treatment sprayer such as the Speed Treater that is sold by EquipmentZone. Anything less would really be for a t-shirt hobbyist I would say.




lisapeakin said:


> I am sure for any DTG there is some equipment sitting that has to be done. You have to keep the inks flowing and it is not good for it to set idle for more than a couple of days.


 This may be true with most DTG printers on the market (even the new GTX) but not so with the Epson F2100 and the first gen Epson DTG the F2000. With the dry cap station on these machines that puts the print head in a closed environment to keep the head from drying out you can let these machines set untouched and powered off for up to two weeks (Epson recommended)



lisapeakin said:


> I also wish I had checked out the maintenance that has to be done ahead of time.


 With the F2100 this is a breeze. A 5 minute head cap clean at the end of each print day and a rinse and wipe out the spit filter and you are done. Easy as that.



lisapeakin said:


> No I would not invest in a Direct to Garment Printer unless I knew I could print 100+ a week on it. I just believe they need to be kept printing ALL the time to be worth it. I have printed quite a bit, more when I first got it. The print is different to sell. The cut solution which I also have has been a much smarter investment.


That is just old school way of thinking (see the second response above). I too sell cut vinyl tees and signs and believe me DTG printing is a big step up.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

@gatorGRAFIX
The first point is true. For consistent results, you need a regulated amount of pre-treatment in an even layer. But i cannot agree with the rest of what you are saying. 

*Epson F2100: *
Leaving the Epson F2100 powered off for two weeks is a really bad idea. I would not leave it powered off for more than 2 days...at least not with the low cost (not genuine epson) inks. The users manual (page 20) recommends that if not printing at least one per week, the printer has to be put on the storage mode. This basically means replacing all ink cartridges with with cleaning fluid ones (6 of them). A lot more maintenance is required... Again as recommended in the Maintenance Schedule. Obviously it not just a "_5 minute head cap clean_" as you are saying, and in reality there is a lot more work required, when something goes wrong, or when parts need replacing. 

*Printing volume:*
Let's just do the math. 100 shirts per week, 52 week per year, $5 profit per shirt, which is the average when printing for others. 100x52x5=$26,000. Considering the price of the printer, I find this unacceptable.


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## sdbprint (Jun 6, 2018)

The pretreat saga on the DTG is a hassel. I'm still trying to figure it out. Would I buy it again...probably not.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

sdbprint said:


> The pretreat saga on the DTG is a hassel. I'm still trying to figure it out. Would I buy it again...probably not.


As I said... not as easy as it looks. Some people think they can simply jump on the bandwagon and start printing money (in the form of t-shirts). They don't do the math, but just go buy a printer, and think it will be just like printing on paper. Obviously it is not!
Now, having said that... Is it worth it... and most importantly, is it profitable? The answer is possibly, because it can be.
First of all, I would not recommend buying just one printer to anyone. You need at least two, for redundancy, so you can continue printing if one has a problem. Believe me it will happen, and when it does, you will be be losing money, and your mental health at the same time. 

Second, you need to be sure, or at least very confident, that you will be able to sell at least 200 ****s per week. This is not a big number... It is just about enough to cover the cost of equipment, rent, etc. Also don't forget about Taxes. 

I've been selling wholesale screen-printed T-shirts for many years, and I only started doing DTG a couple of years ago. I started with 2 printers (different brands) and I quickly switched to 4 of the same brand and model. 

At this point, I can say that DTG is not too bad, but I cannot say that it can replace screen-printing.


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

sdbprint said:


> The pretreat saga on the DTG is a hassel. I'm still trying to figure it out. Would I buy it again...probably not.


I am sorry to hear that. Maybe you didn't have the right equipment. I'll admit using a "fence sprayer" is a pretty tough way to go. A roller is damn near an impossible task. There are a hand full of very good automatic pretreatment machines out there that make pretreating a t-shirt for DTG printing a breeze. I have one (That feeds 3 DTGs) and it works great for me.



TABOB said:


> [MENTION=500441]
> Leaving the Epson F2100 powered off for two weeks is a really bad idea. I would not leave it powered off for more than 2 days...at least not with the low cost (not genuine epson) inks.


I would like to remind folks that using anything other than Epson brand ink while under warranty will void your warranty. After that you are on your own as with any other DTG. I don't use "econo" inks so I don't know much about them really.




TABOB said:


> [MENTION=500441]The users manual recommends that if not printing at least one per week, the printer has to be put on the storage mode.


Fair enough but I have been told by more than one Epson tech that that a two week idle period is a "safe" estimate for letting your F2100 sit untouched. They also tell me that this is becuase of the way that Epson built the F2100 to have the head parked in the capping system when not in use. Since I am also a screen printer and sometimes don't print on my F2100 for a week or two at a time I can say this is a safe procedure. Most of the time after about a week I will fire up my machines, print a good nozzle check, do my "5 minute" cap clean (that's right, 5 minutes), rinse the spit filter and wipe out the spit tray. Now having said that, this works great for me but if you don't think it's a good idea in your shop then that's your call.





TABOB said:


> [MENTION=500441]This basically means replacing all ink cartridges with with cleaning fluid ones (6 of them). A lot more maintenance is required.


I am sure that we all agree this isn't a good idea if you need to let your machine sit for a week or two. That is just silly to even suggest it. Much easier to just do a nozzle check and the shut down procedure in the middle of the week like I outlined above. That would be if your machine sat up for even four weeks I would say. That is how I would do it in my shop.



TABOB said:


> [MENTION=500441]Obviously it not just a "_5 minute head cap clean_" as you are saying.


Might not be obvious to you but I have had an Epson DTG for over three years now and I can attest that in my shop that is a pretty obvious fact.




TABOB said:


> [MENTION=500441]and in reality there is a lot more work required, when something goes wrong, or when parts need replacing.


 You make it sound like a DTG is going to need repair after every cleaning. Anyone who has any brand of DTG will tell you that there are a few replaceable parts on all of them, no matter what kind that you have, a a routine replacement schedule of filters and wipers is always a part of owning a DTG. The cool thing about the F2100 it will let you know (in advance) when one of these replaceable items is reaching the end of it's life to give you time to get on the stick and get what ever it needs ordered and shipped to you. 



TABOB said:


> [MENTION=500441]*Printing volume:*
> Let's just do the math. 100 shirts per week, 52 week per year, $5 profit per shirt, which is the average when printing for others. 100x52x5=$26,000. Considering the price of the printer, I find this unacceptable.


 Your math works just fine for you I'll agree but not every DTG printer makes only $5.00 profit on every shirt that they sell. Also, not every DTG printer just prints a 100 piece job a week. I just printed two 72 piece jobs (left front and back) yesterday with three DTGs (about 2 hours per job or so from start to finish) and my profits were much more than your price model, I can assure you. 

Also people buy DTGs for other reasons too. I use mine to print orders, yes, but I do a lot more with my DTG. I use it to print tons of caps where the profit margins are very very good, I print addons to screen print orders after the job is finished when ever these situations arise. That has been a Godsend in my shop. Not to mention I use my F2100 to print customer samples on. 

I also use my DTGs to print Gator Grafix customer "give away" tees too.
I drop one in every box of any printed ordered tees that go out the door. I see them all over town. Really neat.

*IN SUMMARY*
I guess that it's a matter of choice when owning a DTG. I couldn't be happier with mine but if you (or anyone else) don't think that it's the right call for you then I would say move on to something else. What ever makes YOU happy or is easiest and best-est for you.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

Let me just make one thing clear here. I have nothing against Epson or the F2100. It is definitely a good machine, and it should be used to make money, not collecting dust. 

However, it is not a miracle machine, as some portrait it to be. It needs pretty much the same maintenance as any other DTG printer. I don't care what anyone says... I had this printer for a year, along a much cheaper one from polyprint, and I was equally happy with both. I know people don't like to do the manual flush...but who said it has to be dine manually? A really inexpensive peristaltic pump solves this issue for any DTG printer.



As for the profit margin. It is clear I was talking about the average, which is basically $5 per shirt, and we all know that most shirts have just one printed area. If you have to print front + back + 2 sleeves, then the profit will be $15, but it will also be 3 times the work. 



In any case... as I've already said, DTG is not easy. So be prepared people!


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## ivanbang12 (Jun 30, 2018)

AlypprintstheTee said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm just curious to find out some questions that you wished that you asked or things that you wished you knew before you got into DTG printing


I want to know why with DTG, do I still get some white outlines on dark garments?


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## Trophy Factory (Aug 2, 2015)

[/QUOTE]
*Printing volume:*
Let's just do the math. 100 shirts per week, 52 week per year, $5 profit per shirt, which is the average when printing for others. 100x52x5=$26,000. Considering the price of the printer, I find this unacceptable.[/QUOTE]


So, even based on your very low estimate of only $5 profit per T, you are still getting a ROI in 1 year. I find that VERY acceptable. At a more realistic $10 profit per shirt and doing 75 shirts per week, your ROI would be about 8 months. Those are very favorable numbers as long as you can get the work.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

ivanbang12 said:


> I want to know why with DTG, do I still get some white outlines on dark garments?


 Because fabric expands when wet.
The heavier the white layer, the more it will expand.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

> So, even based on your very low estimate of only $5 profit per T, you are still getting a ROI in 1 year. I find that VERY acceptable. At a more realistic $10 profit per shirt and doing 75 shirts per week, your ROI would be about 8 months. Those are very favorable numbers as long as you can get the work.


If you know you can sell at least 75 shirts per week, and for $10 profit, then it is just about OK.
A 12 months ROI on consumables is not OK, and these small printers are actually consumables. They will not last for ever.


In short... DTG is not a cheap printing method, AND it is not as easy as printing on paper.


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

TABOB said:


> In short... DTG is not a cheap printing method, AND it is not as easy as printing on paper.


I guess not with those "one off" custom DTGs you have. Probably reworked with Epson paper printer heads in them I would guess.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> I guess not with those "one off" custom DTGs you have. Probably reworked with Epson paper printer heads in them I would guess.



Correct. The way I do it, the average print costs around $0.30 for both dark and light garments, and my ROI for the 4 printers was less than a month. But my method is hybrid DTG... because I screen print the white under base, and I print minimum 100 shirts per design. This is also one of the reasons why I had to have custom made printers. I will be converting them to 9ft flatbeds this year, so I can print 6 shirts at a time. It's less than $150 in parts for each printer.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

TABOB said:


> Correct. The way I do it, the average print costs around $0.30 for both dark and light garments, and my ROI for the 4 printers was less than a month. But my method is hybrid DTG... because I screen print the white under base, and I print minimum 100 shirts per design. This is also one of the reasons why I had to have custom made printers. I will be converting them to 9ft flatbeds this year, so I can print 6 shirts at a time. It's less than $150 in parts for each printer.


Now you reveal yourself at last to be an evil genius 

How do you ensure alignment of the screen printed underbase with the DTG print? Even with building a bit of a border/bleed into the DTG image, you must have a reasonably quick and accurate means of achieving alignment. My best guess is that you mount the garments to their DTG hoops/platens/whatever before screen printing, and that those serve to register your print on press as well as on the DTG. But that is just my WAG.


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## 1ArmBandit (Jan 24, 2018)

NoXid said:


> Now you reveal yourself at last to be an evil genius
> 
> How do you ensure alignment of the screen printed underbase with the DTG print? Even with building a bit of a border/bleed into the DTG image, you must have a reasonably quick and accurate means of achieving alignment. My best guess is that you mount the garments to their DTG hoops/platens/whatever before screen printing, and that those serve to register your print on press as well as on the DTG. But that is just my WAG.


i was thinking the same..how do u line those up!


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

NoXid said:


> Now you reveal yourself at last to be an evil genius
> 
> How do you ensure alignment of the screen printed underbase with the DTG print? Even with building a bit of a border/bleed into the DTG image, you must have a reasonably quick and accurate means of achieving alignment. My best guess is that you mount the garments to their DTG hoops/platens/whatever before screen printing, and that those serve to register your print on press as well as on the DTG. But that is just my WAG.



Well, this method woks best for designs having an outline, but it can be done without it as well.

You've answered your own question about registration.

Obviously DTG printers will print layer over layer with excellent registration. So, all I had to do is make removable platens that can be mounted on the press and on the printer. The base plate of the press is aligned to the base plate of the printer, and two alignment pins ensure perfect platen registration in seconds. This way you can actually align all the press stations between them, and to one or more printers. 

All common sense really.


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## 1ArmBandit (Jan 24, 2018)

pictures or it didnt happen...


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

1ArmBandit said:


> pictures or it didnt happen...


Why don't you pay me first?


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

TABOB said:


> Why don't you pay me first?


LOL 
@TABOB got up and did one of those crazy Make-Your-Own-Unicorn projects, and made it _work_. And how he solved the alignment issue has me rethinking my own pet DIY-Unicorn options. Full color, decent hand, high durability, non-fiddly process and materials, efficient and cost effective production, still reasonably practical at low volumes (as measured by an insane person who actually does POD screen printing ). One could do worse, and most have.

Although DIY DTG was what first brought me to this site, my unicorn chasing has tended to be in the direction of using transfers-for-light-shirts on dark shirts ... screen printing or discharging a white base being one of the options ... and I'm not going to even mention the others I have played with.

So hats off to TABOB for being inventive and sharing a little insight into his unicorn ranch.


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## sylvan (Mar 22, 2016)

I wish I had learned a lot more about pre-treating as well and the need of a forced air conveyor dryer to avoid the DTG box as much as possible.


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## DTGnewbie2018 (May 27, 2018)

I wish that I knew knew more about how difficult it would be to maintain the supplies and printer. Holy smokes. My wife kills me with the amount of T-shirt boxes we have laying around. Also, I went on vacation for two weeks and came back to my DTG printer with a clogged printhead. I even ran cleaner through it before leaving. Lots of maintenance, lots of upkeep, but worth it in the end


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## DTGnewbie2018 (May 27, 2018)

Veloci-Jet XL


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

NoXid said:


> LOL
> 
> @TABOB got up and did one of those crazy Make-Your-Own-Unicorn projects, and made it _work_. And how he solved the alignment issue has me rethinking my own pet DIY-Unicorn options. Full color, decent hand, high durability, non-fiddly process and materials, efficient and cost effective production, still reasonably practical at low volumes (as measured by an insane person who actually does POD screen printing ). One could do worse, and most have.
> 
> ...


Ha ha! I loved this response. very clever. 



DTGnewbie2018 said:


> I went on vacation for two weeks and came back to my DTG printer with a clogged printhead. I even ran cleaner through it before leaving. Lots of maintenance, lots of upkeep, but worth it in the end


 Should have bought an Epson F2100.




1ArmBandit said:


> pictures or it didnt happen...


Of course it didn't happen.


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## sylvan (Mar 22, 2016)

@gatorGRAFIX: I know you know a lot about Epson DTGs, any experience with the GTX? Specifically about maintenance and ink waste associated with the wet cap station!


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

Absolutely. Buddy of mine owns one. Maybe 6 months now or so.

If you let them set WITHOUT doing a daily white clean (like it asks for) then the reports of the cleaning solution only being circulated are true. If you do the daily "lighted green button" push it will eat up two bags of white ink without so much as printing anything in about three weeks or less.

Cleaning day (usually once a week) is an absolute nightmare if you ask me. The GTX likes to spatter the white ink around inside of the printer over a week's time and it usually dries rock solid hard. This makes it difficult for the required Brother solution to dissolve and soften up the dried white splatters for removal. This means that you have deposits of white ink that are very difficult to remove over time. Especially on the white head rubber capping trim from what I have observed. This is not an issue with the CMYK colors however.

The GTX is indeed a faster printer than the F2100, no argument there period but cleaning the F2100 is a 5 minute or less easy procedure done at the end of every print day.

Just my opinion.


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## sylvan (Mar 22, 2016)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> Absolutely. Buddy of mine owns one. Maybe 6 months now or so.
> 
> If you let them set WITHOUT doing a daily white clean (like it asks for) then the reports of the cleaning solution only being circulated are true. If you do the daily "lighted green button" push it will eat up two bags of white ink without so much as printing anything in about three weeks or less.
> 
> ...


I see! We've stated DTG products as an add-on to our promotional products line very recently and it is picking up quite quickly! Since I couldn't be sure of the volume we'll have to produce right at the beginning, I played it safe and went with an F2100, knowing it will be the easiest DTG printer to maintain if DTG will not pick up right away.

Now I have that sales rep from the company we get our large format equipment from that visited us the other day and he now also distribute Brother GTX. He has been saying how much production oriented and industrial the GTX is (whichI feel is true) as well as ink cost being so much lower than with Epson (true as well but I'm afraid that lots of ink may end up in the capping station rather than on a salable shirt). Long story short, I need to increase the output of our DTG department and I can basically get the guy's GTX demo unit (in mint condition) for the same amount I could get from selling the F2100 (3 months old) but something is telling me not to do it. Especially when he tells me that the GTX is almost maintenance free!

BTW, our sales rep also told us that the F2100 was almost maintenance free, and he certainly never talked about the 5 minutes-or-less daily maintenance procedure you are mentioning in your previous posts. Could you please elaborate?

Thank you!


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## DTGnewbie2018 (May 27, 2018)

The F2100 sounds like the way to go, because let me tell you. Nothing gets me more frustrated than spending time cleaning and maintaining, and ruining shirts on test prints. Back in the day I thought it was a good idea to buy a cheap used DTG printer off eBay.... I ruined more shirts than I printed. I would use sheets of paper for test prints. They would come out fine. I put the shirt in... and would get random splatters. No rhyme or reason why. Drove me beyond nuts.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

DTGnewbie2018 said:


> The F2100 sounds like the way to go, because let me tell you. Nothing gets me more frustrated than spending time cleaning and maintaining, and ruining shirts on test prints. Back in the day I thought it was a good idea to buy a cheap used DTG printer off eBay.... I ruined more shirts than I printed. I would use sheets of paper for test prints. They would come out fine. I put the shirt in... and would get random splatters. No rhyme or reason why. Drove me beyond nuts.


What the F2100 does, is that it forces you to do what is required, and you cannot just skip it. However, this is annoying to people like myself, as I like to be able to do things my way. 

Maintaining any DTG printer is not that hard, but you have to have some knowledge, and a strict maintenance schedule.
Back to my "unicorn setup" ... Apparently I was not the only one to come up with the idea, and it's not much of an idea to begin with. It's common sense, as you need a white substrate to print CMYK. So it turns out that Kornit has DTG printers doing the same thing since 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4OMhIc6Gkw This printer is crazy fast...180 shirts per hour . I have four P800 DTG conversions, and I can only do 60-80 shirts per hour if I really try hard. Normally I make around 30 shirts per hour, but in really relaxed pace, drinking coffee and chatting on the phone while doing it. Not having to deal with pretreatment, or white ink, makes DTG a really easy process . I cannot do one offs of course, but I was never into that type of business.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> Of course it didn't happen.


The earth is flat... LOL!


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## adriromdio (Sep 11, 2018)

ivanbang12 said:


> I want to know why with DTG, do I still get some white outlines on dark garments?


Just apply a little adhesive to the pallet..your shirt moves while printing..


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

sylvan said:


> He has been saying how much production oriented and industrial the GTX is (whichI feel is true) as well as ink cost being so much lower than with Epson (true as well but I'm afraid that lots of ink may end up in the capping station rather than on a salable shirt).


The GTX is indeed "industrial oriented" (pretty vague term if you ask me) just as the F2100 is. No big difference here except that the GTX does print faster because after about half way through a print it starts to lay down the color layer. This is a good thing for the GTX and obviously a great selling point but it comes with it's own issues also. The chemicals used in the formulation of the the Brother inks can be dangerous to the touch. It says so right on the ink package. This could be a concern with people printing on the machine over time that get too familiar with the GTX and start getting careless in the handling of the ink while replacing and also cleaning. Not so much with people that can be anal (like me, ha ha) with what they do.

The GTX is based on a "wet capping" station which again, can be "give and take".

Your GTX MUST be powered on AT ALL TIMES to keep this feature up and running. The warranty states that if it is logged within the GTX that the machine has been powered off for an hour or more at one time this could void the warranty. Not sure who would make that call here. The advantage of this set though is no start up time when you are ready to print on a new print day. You can usually load up your artwork on a new print day and get to printing, easy as that.

BTW - not sure how your salesman friend thinks that the Brother uses way less ink than the F2100 does. In reality it's about the same if you don't do the daily Brother checks that you had to do when the machine first came out. They are now telling GTX owners to simply ignore this process and you can wait for up to a week now to do it. This keeps from dumping white ink daily down the the tubes into the dump tank. Last time I checked a pair of white ink bags for the GTX was over $450. That would be for 1,400ml of ink. The F2100 comes in at $414 shipped for $1,200ml of ink. That's pretty much about the same. Ink consumption doesn't really seem to be much different between the two either.



sylvan said:


> Long story short, I need to increase the output of our DTG department and I can basically get the guy's GTX demo unit (in mint condition) for the same amount I could get from selling the F2100 (3 months old) but something is telling me not to do it. Especially when he tells me that the GTX is almost maintenance free!


Well, the GTX isn't almost maintenance free really. It's just different. You are constantly replacing fan filters, wiper sponges, etc. No more or less than most other DTGs I guess. The Epson also has it's normal array of replaceable items too.

Also, even though the GTX is the fastest printer of the two it's not like it's twice as fast or anything either. The F2100 is pretty damn quick in it's own right. If you are printing all day on each machine side by side every day than the GTX will of course pull ahead in the production department but not so much if you are sporadic DTG printer like most of us garment guys (and gals) are. Sure there are huge online t-shirt printing companies out there and I know for a fact that some of them have a large number of GTX DTGs and some of them have a large amount of F2100s (and/or F2000s) too. Surely each of these companies did their research and purchased what they thought was best for them.

Be careful what ANY dealer tells you and do your own research before you drop a nickel on any DTG. Brother or Epson or DTG or Ricoh/Anajet or what ever. Just smart thinking



sylvan said:


> BTW, our sales rep also told us that the F2100 was almost maintenance free, and he certainly never talked about the 5 minutes-or-less daily maintenance procedure you are mentioning in your previous posts. Could you please elaborate?
> 
> Thank you!


Sure. The F2100 has it's own cleaning cartridge that goes in along side of the ink carts (that seemingly last for along long time), kinda similar to the GTX DTG I would say. When you are done printing at the end of the day the F2100 will do it's own "tube wash" where as it injects some of that cleaning fluid into the white tubes to settle in with the white ink to drastically reduce coagulation while sitting idle waiting for the next print session. This is a great improvement over the way that the F2000 used to it although the now F2000 daily tube washing (new procedure) is also very easy to do, takes just minutes and has the same anti-clogging effect as the F2100 set up does.

The Epson will ask you to replace normal consumables when it's time such as the wiper assembly, filters, ink, etc. just as the Brother machine does.

All you have to do is do a "head cap cleaning" when you are done printing. All this involves is selecting the process on the F2100 LCD screen and the DTG moves the head assembly out of the way so that you can use an lint free swab and Epson solution to lightly clean any wet ink (or even dried ink occasionally) that may be on the rubber cap assembly. This "head cap" is where your head assembly rests when it is idle. Keeping the head cap nice and clean ensures that it does not get any air leaks which could start drying some of the wet ink that is resting on the bottom the parked head assembly.

This is called "dry cap" system (which is completely different than the GTX). The advantage to this system and one of the F2100s strengths is that you can leave the DTG sitting virtually untouched for up to 2 weeks. This can really appeal to the t-shirt printer who may not be using their DTG every day or maybe there are long periods of time when the business has other method to attend to (like me being screen printer also).

The disadvantage to this is that every print day you must boot up the machine, give it about 8 minutes or so to circulate the ink and then do a nozzle check and react accordingly. This can sometimes mean a morning boot up time of 15 minutes or slightly more.










I am in no way dogging on the Brother GTX machine. It is a fine unit no doubt. I have found that a lot of Brother people are going to be loyal to their products just as Epson people are usually loyal to theirs. We as consumers should all be glad that we have great choices on a handful of high end DTG machines to pick from.

The best advice that I can give is to do your homework before laying down that hard earned cash and let the DTG that might be right for you do the talking. Treat buying a DTG as you would the same as if you were buying a new car and let the machine speak for itself. Not what a commissioned floor salesman might be feeding you.

Figure out what you intend to do in the t-shirt printing business and pick the machine that you think is right for you. It's not always about which one is the fastest or the easiest or even the coolest looking. After you buy your DTG you'll soon find out that for you it's a combination of those things for sure.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> the F2100 will do it's own "tube wash" where as it injects some of that cleaning fluid into the white tubes to settle in with the white ink to drastically reduce coagulation while sitting idle waiting for the next print session. This is a great improvement over the way that the F2000 used to it although the F2000 daily tube washing is also very easy to do, takes just minutes and has the same anti-clogging effect as the F2100 set up does.


This is definitely a plus for the F2100, which is definitely the best beginner printer you can buy. If you cannot print with the F2100, then you you may as well forget printing DTG altogether.


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## LancerFlorida (Mar 20, 2018)

That a cleaver solution that allows bypassing the white ink in a dtg.
However, there must be less expensive way to register a print station to a DTG platen that is way under $44,000 for a Kornit.

Has anyone found or used a system like Vastex VRS or even a 'insert' that is registered to station and DTG platen?

I can't help but think there is a $20 solution using a t shirt insert to keep the station and platen in register.
But, this is not one of those questions one knows to ask when considering a DTG. It's just not sexy enough. And of course, a low cost black t solution, makes the permanace of the hobbyist a certainty.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

LancerFlorida said:


> However, there must be less expensive way to register a print station to a DTG platen that is way under $44,000 for a Kornit.


 I've already answered this question, and actually, all F2000 owners with screen-printing experience should know what I'm talking about. All it takes is 2 registration pins.


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## DTGnewbie2018 (May 27, 2018)

Sales rep said it was maintenance free haha. I bet he did. Just joking of course. The f2100 is far superior than most DTGs I can think of


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

TABOB said:


> This is definitely a plus for the F2100, which is definitely the best beginner printer you can buy. If you cannot print with the F2100, then you you may as well forget printing DTG altogether.


I wouldn't say that the F2100 is only for the noob DTG'er. If that was the case why would so many online printers own so many of them at one time? I have seen instances of some DTG online printers having over 50+ in one place more than once. I would say not only is the F2100 very noobie friendly it is just plain user friendly, period.



DTGnewbie2018 said:


> Sales rep said it was maintenance free haha. I bet he did. Just joking of course.


 Yeah, they seem to ALL say that these days (and I'm NOT joking ).


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> I wouldn't say that the F2100 is only for the noob DTG'er. If that was the case why would so many online printers own so many of them at one time? I have seen instances of some DTG online printers having over 50+ in one place more than once. I would say not only is the F2100 very noobie friendly it is just plain user friendly, period.


I don't think having 50 F2100 printers is efficient, or a good idea. For a company at that level, four Kornit Avalanche printers would cost around the same to buy, but will need less space, have higher prints/hour capacity, much larger print area (24"x36"), lower ink cost, and much more. Also the Spectra printheads these printers have are much more durable than the one in the F2100. These really are industrial grade printers. I'm actually considering the possibility of going full time next year, and invest on 2 or 3 Paradigm II printers. They really are impressive machines and fit my business model like a glove.


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

TABOB said:


> I don't think having 50 F2100 printers is efficient, or a good idea. For a company at that level, four Kornit Avalanche printers would cost around the same to buy, but will need less space, have higher prints/hour capacity, much larger print area (24"x36"), lower ink cost, and much more.


Ha ha. Not sure what makes you say that given Epson's rock solid warranty and the ability to sell off a used F2100 for descent money when ever a newer model comes out and it's time for a mega company to upgrade.



TABOB said:


> Also the Spectra printheads these printers have are much more durable than the one in the F2100.


I find this statement just silly. The F2100 has only been out since January. What do you base your statements on? Certainly not factual research. I'd say pure speculation maybe. Durable???



TABOB said:


> These really are industrial grade printers.


And just how do you define the term "industrial grade"? Such a vague term that has been thrown around a lot lately. Seems to me that when many companies own a large number of the F2100 printers logic would tell me that they see the Epson DTG as "industrial grade" or they wouldn't have invested in so many.



TABOB said:


> I'm actually considering the possibility of going full time next year, and invest on 2 or 3 Paradigm II printers. They really are impressive machines and fit my business model like a glove.


Let us know when you do and how it works out for you because I am curious to see that after you have dropped all of that dough on those high dollah DTGs that you'll be then reaping enough profits that your hand built "robo DTG" isn't giving you to buy that elusive Unicorn at the end of the garment printing rainbow.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> Ha ha. Not sure what makes you say that given Epson's rock solid warranty and the ability to sell off a used F2100 for descent money when ever a newer model comes out and it's time for a mega company to upgrade.


As I said, four Kornit Avalanche printers would:
a) cost around the same to buy BUT, 
b) need less space, 
c) have higher prints/hour capacity, 
d) have much larger print area (24"x36"), 
e) have lower ink cost
Less overheads is always a good thing, and the nearly double print area is a HUGE plus.
You can sell the kornit printers too, but why would you? The point is to print and make money. For that level of production Kornit Avalanche would be the way to go. 

*The Epson printhead:*
The F2100 has the same printhead as the F2000. How long has that one been out?

*What is Industrial:*
Industrial is something with higher than normal capacity, continuous duty, fast, and durable. Just calling it industrial will not do, and the F2100 is definitely not an industrial grade printer. 




> Let us know when you do and how it works out for you because I am curious to see that after you have dropped all of that dough on those high dollah DTGs that you'll be then reaping enough profits that your hand built "robo DTG" isn't giving you to buy that elusive Unicorn at the end of the garment printing rainbow.


Considering something, is very far from actually doing it, but the demand for what I do is much higher that what I can produce at the moment... and I do produce a lot. However, I will first try to build that 9ft flatbed out of an Epson P800 DTG conversion, as I have already planed. If this works well, then I can probably double my production this way, and invest the money somewhere else. Still... those Paradigm II are impressive machines.


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

TABOB said:


> As I said, four Kornit Avalanche printers would:
> a) cost around the same to buy BUT,
> b) need less space,
> c) have higher prints/hour capacity,
> ...


 Hmmm. And when ONE of those massive high dollar high maintenance Kornits goes down you have a massive headache on your hands. Also not sure who really needs a 24" X 36" printed t-shirt. Seems just about everybody gets along great at 14" X 16" on average.



TABOB said:


> *The Epson printhead:*
> The F2100 has the same printhead as the F2000. How long has that one been out?


Shows how much you know about the Epson DTG. From what the big brass tells me the head is indeed different. This new F2100 head gives the Epson the capability of printing a white pass on top of the first pass at the same time it is printing the color pass. The slower processor of the F2000 and the fact that it has the older head design keeps it from being able to do the same with manipulated RIP software or FW.

You still haven't explained how their head is more "durable". 



TABOB said:


> *What is Industrial:*
> Industrial is something with higher than normal capacity, continuous duty, fast, and durable. Just calling it industrial will not do, and the F2100 is definitely not an industrial grade printer.


 Yeah, exactly. The F2100 seems to foot the bill here nicely. 





TABOB said:


> Considering something, is very far from actually doing it, but the demand for what I do is much higher that what I can produce at the moment... and I do produce a lot. However, I will first try to build that 9ft flatbed out of an Epson P800 DTG conversion, as I have already planed. If this works well, then I can probably double my production this way, and invest the money somewhere else. Still... those Paradigm II are impressive machines.


Well, I would ask for pictures but since you didn't deliver on the last request for pictures (made by a different member here, not b y me) I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

gatorGRAFIX said:


> Hmmm. And when ONE of those massive high dollar high maintenance Kornits goes down you have a massive headache on your hands. Also not sure who really needs a 24" X 36" printed t-shirt. Seems just about everybody gets along great at 14" X 16" on average.


 This logic is flawed. I know this from my other job, which is network administrator. Maintaining 50 small machines is more expensive and time consuming, than maintaining 5 faster ones. If you have on average 5 hours of downtime with 5 machines, you will have 50 hours of downtime for the 50. That's how uptime works with with all machines, including printers. 

As for the 24"x36" print area... It would be super useful to me, as I'm used to screen-printing on 25"x36" screens, and anything smaller feels restrictive. 



> Shows how much you know about the Epson DTG. From what the big brass tells me the head is indeed different. This new F2100 head gives the Epson the capability of printing a white pass on top of the first pass at the same time it is printing the color pass. The slower processor of the F2000 and the fact that it has the older head design keeps it from being able to do the same with manipulated RIP software or FW.


In that case "the big brass" is a liar. It's the same printhead. Also, the printhead has nothing to do with the single pass (white +color) print. I can do the same with P800 using AcroRIP, but I don't like the results, and I have no use for it to begin with.



> Well, I would ask for pictures but since you didn't deliver on the last request for pictures (made by a different member here, not b y me) I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.


This is blinkered thinking... AKA the "earth is flat" mentality







.

a) I haven't built it yet, and
b) I'm still in my "summer mode", enjoying the sunny weather down in the south of Europe, as I do for 5 months every year.

Anyway, This is what gave me the idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d3hOYQOPik . This is not 9 feet, but the P800 supports up to 10.7 (panoramic print), and so it will work. The only thing I'm worried about is vertical (y axis) registration, because the printer may be losing or gaining one or two millimeters as it moves over the rail. It's an issue I know vinyl cutters have. I will just have to try and find out.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

I received an interesting email... with this link.

Polyprint DTG | Screen & Digital Mix


I knew somebody would eventually copy my idea... Or is it a coincidence ?


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