# Firebird White Ink Review



## Teez310

Had the privilege of testing this new white ink for the past couple of days and I must say results are great.

Right out of the bottle and loading it up, the ink actually has a feel of being thinner or less viscosity which I found surprising. Also seems to have more of an alcoholic smell to it. 

For the past couple weeks I have been having issues with using too much white ink and getting ink splitting on solids. It coincided with my complete switch over to image armor. It has nothing bad to do with image armor as I believe its an amazing pretreat but it has also provided such a smooth printing surface the white pools and is really staying at the surface so I had to adjust accordingly, not hard if you know your troubleshooting. Not so now with Firebird white. Still had my adjusted settings and printed great but I decided to up the white levels almost back to normal and the prints are exceptionally vibrant. The thing I noticed the most is when it prints it seems to settle very fast and gives that nice gel look when you hover before curing. Havnt been able to test enough to see how results are with printing just one shirt (neoflex owner) and if I would experience any splitting. I also wouldnt be able to give a fair judgement as I am still using the dupont CMYK. 

Curing: So far I have only tested out 90sec. cure. They said the white ink can cure at 60 or even at 30 secs but considering I dont have the Firebird CMYK yet I decided against doing so. Since I do 90secs. with Dupont CMYK alone I figured it would be a good assessment time. So far so good. With the limited time we have been able to wash the shirts and they look as great as when they were initially printed. Granted we did not try to destroy the shirts like firebird does at the shows since its still Dupont CMYK. 

Overall, quality is great, less to no pitting and ink splitting. How much the quality will be enhanced when I get my hands on their CMYK is yet to be seen but I can see it only getting better. Conclusion, I need to get another heat press stat and maybe in the next few months another neoflex. If the cure times stay correct and are as good as advertised... with certain designs I will be able to up my production by over 50% easily, and thats with just my current equipment. Price of inks is awesome but increased production is what makes me giddy.

Lastly I have no affiliation with Firebird Inks. Im just a neoflexer and had questions and they reached out to me. Ended up buying a bottle of white the other night and will wait to finish this Dupont CMYK to buy the bundle in a few weeks. Good stuff.


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## EricDeem

Could you please post some pictures?


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## bakedt

I just purchased the Firebird Ink promotional package to use in our DTG Viper and Lawson Pre-Treat Express. Frankly, I am a bit nervous with busy printing season upon us but I guess we will find out quickly how it performs. I have been communicating with Shawn and have found him extremely responsive so I am somewhat comforted that they will be there to help guide us if needed. I will post updates once we receive and start using the products...


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## Teez310

Dekay317 said:


> Could you please post some pictures?


I'll try my best to get some out soon for after wash but I figure most want to see how it looks with multiple washes which I dont have the luxury of so gotta be patient with that. Really want to see how their CMYK prints with the white in its totality. I admit Im super cheap and trying to finish these liters I have.

Overall Shawn's take is that their ink set mattes down the fibers and prevents the fibrillation effect after wash, especially for lower quality shirts (Gildans, basic Hanes, etc). As much as people crap on Gildans and the other basic shirts, these ringspun companys really seem to have a hard time stocking and even providing a wide array of colors. Keya would be so perfect if they stepped their game up in stocking.


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## EricDeem

You should consider looking at LAT blanks. They are ringspun and have several distributors with tons of colors and inventory.


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## Teez310

Thanks, I checked up on them. Only thing is the fashion fit and the fact that its 4oz shirts. Not very fat friendly which we have alot of around here. With Keya was getting the 5oz shirts. 

BTW, hope you guys are doing ok with the tornados down there.


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## dougie54

Has anyone tried Firebird ink in a Brother GT-381 dtg?


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## metalbone

Any update on this? I am really curious how the combination of Image Armor, Firebird WUB and Dupont CMYK is working.


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## FIREBIRDshawn

Many folks new to FIREBIRD Ink have contacted us about proper curing procedures. Please keep in mind, for optimal results, FIREBIRD White Ink only requires 60 seconds of cure time at 330F.

You can review the full cure instructions here in the FIREBIRD Ink bulletin: 

FIREBIRD Ink DTG Curing Instructions





Teez310 said:


> Had the privilege of testing this new white ink for the past couple of days and I must say results are great.
> 
> Right out of the bottle and loading it up, the ink actually has a feel of being thinner or less viscosity which I found surprising. Also seems to have more of an alcoholic smell to it.
> 
> For the past couple weeks I have been having issues with using too much white ink and getting ink splitting on solids. It coincided with my complete switch over to image armor. It has nothing bad to do with image armor as I believe its an amazing pretreat but it has also provided such a smooth printing surface the white pools and is really staying at the surface so I had to adjust accordingly, not hard if you know your troubleshooting. Not so now with Firebird white. Still had my adjusted settings and printed great but I decided to up the white levels almost back to normal and the prints are exceptionally vibrant. The thing I noticed the most is when it prints it seems to settle very fast and gives that nice gel look when you hover before curing. Havnt been able to test enough to see how results are with printing just one shirt (neoflex owner) and if I would experience any splitting. I also wouldnt be able to give a fair judgement as I am still using the dupont CMYK.
> 
> Curing: So far I have only tested out 90sec. cure. They said the white ink can cure at 60 or even at 30 secs but considering I dont have the Firebird CMYK yet I decided against doing so. Since I do 90secs. with Dupont CMYK alone I figured it would be a good assessment time. So far so good. With the limited time we have been able to wash the shirts and they look as great as when they were initially printed. Granted we did not try to destroy the shirts like firebird does at the shows since its still Dupont CMYK.
> 
> Overall, quality is great, less to no pitting and ink splitting. How much the quality will be enhanced when I get my hands on their CMYK is yet to be seen but I can see it only getting better. Conclusion, I need to get another heat press stat and maybe in the next few months another neoflex. If the cure times stay correct and are as good as advertised... with certain designs I will be able to up my production by over 50% easily, and thats with just my current equipment. Price of inks is awesome but increased production is what makes me giddy.
> 
> Lastly I have no affiliation with Firebird Inks. Im just a neoflexer and had questions and they reached out to me. Ended up buying a bottle of white the other night and will wait to finish this Dupont CMYK to buy the bundle in a few weeks. Good stuff.


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## alexus1305

Good day! What about life of printhead with Firebird? Did you make a test?


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## EricDeem

Any test results using image armor pretreat and firebird white ink?


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## metalbone

I started using the FireBird White ink last week, I have IA coming in tomorrow. It was suppose to be here Friday but UPS has been horrible the last couple weeks with delays. Annoying when its suppose to here Friday and your prepping everything to do runs on Saturday and Sunday and you get an email saying your order won't be here till Monday due to UPS screwing up. Two weeks in a row now. I digress though.

Two things I have noticed in the week I have used the new White Ink:
1. Definitely has a more alcohol smell on cure.
2. Does not settle near as fast as the dupont White. I still aggitate and run at least a purge on a daily but with the Dupont I was having to reprime the White on a daily basis because it would settle so fast. Not sure if it was just old or what.

I am new to the whole print thing so I am still getting the hang of the PT but the Firebird ink seems to lay down better, more evenly.

No wash testing yet, just haven't had the time to any test printing for myself and wash.


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## spiderx1

Can't wait to see the results. It appears that Firebird is a high solvent content ink, probably contains a high level Dietheylene glycol but not sure I have not seen the MSDS. Brother ink does the same. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using T-Shirt Forums


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## g.lupo

Ian doing test this week, with firebird ink. I will be comparing DuPont with firebird, and their eastern tech pretreat with image armor, I already know that image armor is little easier to work with in colors, buti will be comparing on blacks. I will have photos with my results


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## Teez310

Thought Id post some pics. Not the best but just posting results as I just tried Firebird PT for the first time today. Granted these settings are not dialed in but considering I used just 5 turns (11-12 grams) on the Viper, results came out great. What impressed me the most was I had zero ink splitting where if the white ink did not have enough time to gel, the white would peek through the color. The performance center was just a one shirt print with the neo and as you can see still zero ink splitting. I did have bleeding issues though as you can see but I did not tone down the white levels at all. This may be fixed when I finally get away from mixing dupont CMYK with the firebird white. Almost done but was out of commission for a while with encoder strip problems.

Also disregard the crappy white outline on the deadpool... just thought Id grab some graphic from the net that looked cool. 

Would like to also note the black shirt is a crappy gildan and the other is a ringspun heather gray.

Havnt washed yet as its a new pt I just used. But to note Shawn from Firebird said the wash will be improved more so from the ink set being used, not necessarily the pt as much. Will try to post those results soon as I finally found someone to wash my clothes for massive wash test.


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## g.lupo

Not bad results at all for only 11 grams for gildan. Thier pretreat is more concentrated. And need less but little more difficult when comes to bright colors. Still working on my results and updates.


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## RobP614

I just printed my first dark shirt, production print with the new Firebird Ink 60 Sec White and Firebird Dark Pre-Treat. 

WOW! I didn't know my printer could get a solid of a white.

I was actually getting such a strong white ink reaction with the pre-treat I had to turn down the amount of white ink for first time in 3 year!

I've never been so excited to print dark shirts!

(I know the drawing say 2012...it was a drawing from 2012; used this year!)

This was printed on an Easy T Deluxe.


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## RobP614

Here are a few more pictures; this is after 5 washes.



















Still holding up great much better then the old DuPont ink!!!


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## 23spiderman

it's not so much the ink as it is the pretreat. i have DuPont ink that has over 20 washes without any cracking, but it is with Image Armour pretreat. the key is the brightness of the white and the accuracy of the colors. if you are happy with those two things, then great. it may just be the photo, but the white looks like it's a bit thin; i can see the black shirt underneath. the cmyk areas all look solid.

the other factor is whether or not Firebird is less prone to clogging. if it is, then maybe it's worth the "sacrifice" of a bright white?


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## RobP614

It was the photo. It really is a solid white, the best white I have seen some out of my printer.

It reacted so good with the PT that the opacity of the white was better then some print, flash prints I've got out of screen printing.

I have a gallon of the image armor but I've only used it on one shirt. The results weren't any different then the Firebird Pretreat; I'll have to go back and play with the Image Armor again.

I have a shirt that's going on 37 washing that looks "ok" its cracking and faded but overall the prints as good as a screen printed shirt would look after the beating I have out it through. That shirt was printed with whenever ink came with my EasyT when I bought it 3 years ago (I think the choice with the vendor I bought it though was DuPont or Resolute...and I know I didn't pick Resolute).


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## RobP614

Oh...also I did turn the white down a bit on image from with EK Rip. 

My test print with that image had white bleeding through the shirt and a bit of pooling of white ink on top...seemed like over kill.

I always figure if I tone down the amount of white and save myself a few cents then go for it...call me cheap!

It's so much better then what I've got in the past that I didn't know what to do!!!


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## Teez310

23spiderman said:


> it's not so much the ink as it is the pretreat. i have DuPont ink that has over 20 washes without any cracking, but it is with Image Armour pretreat. the key is the brightness of the white and the accuracy of the colors. if you are happy with those two things, then great. it may just be the photo, but the white looks like it's a bit thin; i can see the black shirt underneath. the cmyk areas all look solid.
> 
> the other factor is whether or not Firebird is less prone to clogging. if it is, then maybe it's worth the "sacrifice" of a bright white?


There is actually truth to it being the ink in firebirds case. Shawn from firebird has stated as such. The ink when laided down seems to matte down the fibers. Maybe why fibrillation is almost nonexistent now. 

The craziest part, we talk about a stretch test for screen printing that doesn't work with dtg as the ink will show cracks. If you stretch the firebird white, it does seem to have an also plastisol stretch where I put quite a bit of tension and it doesn't crack.


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## bakedts

Just wanted to jump in here for a moment... We switched to Firebird beginning at the end of November 2013. At this point, we have printed in excess of 1,000 shirts (mostly dark) and have done some comprehensive wash testing as well. We have a DTG Viper printer. I have documented our entire process of the switchover and am in the process of creating a new topic post with the details. In summary, I can say that, while we did learn some things along the way, we have been very pleased with the results as have our customers. The prints are substantially more vibrant, wash better and the ink is less expensive. I will also say that Shawn and his entire team are very responsive and have gone out of their way to help us in our transition. They also "listen" to what we are experiencing and in some cases have gone back to R&D to see how they can further improve their product. I was very concerned about the switch at the beginning but am glad we did.

Note: While my username says I am a newbie, I am not... I have been posting on t-shirt forums as bakedt for years but have run into an issue that I am trying to resolve with t-shirt forums with some password issues...


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## jgabby

Eager to read the new topic post with the details !


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## 4NU

I just switched my white ink over to Firebird from Dupont. I am also using the Firebird pretreat. I am not getting the solit bright white. I have varried the amount of pretreat with no results. 

I am printing from the M2 which uses an epson printhead. When i changed over i flushed the system, changed the wims filter and the dampers after the flush. I charged the system fully and started printing. I have printed about 15 test shirts and the cover on the shirts is not as good as the dupont. I'm sure i'm missing something. I am having to do head cleanings much more often.

Any ideas?


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## RobP614

Can you post a picture of what you are getting?

What are you PT with?

Here is what I am see on a EasyT, PT with a Wagner...


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## sandmanbjj

Rob that looks nice and solid


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## estrada

Very nice white Rob. Are you using FireBird pretreatment or Image Armor? which one do you like better?


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## RobP614

That was with firebird PT, I have tried both, and have settled on firebirds. Honestly, have had great results with both, solid prints, great wash tests. For me it was about ordering from one source; I like being able to have one supplier that has my ink and PT and being able to order directly from the manufacture is nice!

After two washes...maybe three. (Still looks nice!)


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## metalbone

Rob what shirts are you using In that print

Same as you I have settled on firebird for both pt and ink and also use the Wagner but your print looks better. 



Sent from my iPad using TShirtForums app


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## treefox2118

Love seeing stunning white on an EasyT!

Can I ask what RIP and settings?


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## RobP614

metalbone said:


> Rob what shirts are you using In that print
> 
> Same as you I have settled on firebird for both pt and ink and also use the Wagner but your print looks better.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using TShirtForums app


That was a Keya...but I get the same quality out of the Hanes Nano as well.


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## RobP614

treefox2118 said:


> Love seeing stunning white on an EasyT!
> 
> Can I ask what RIP and settings?


There are two tricks, getting the printhead as close as possible to the garment (within reason)...which is tricky with an EasyT.

and...the settings! I use:

*Fine - CMYK *
Med
3
Logo or graphic (Graphic isn't as good with color matching)
Density 100%



*Fine - White*
Med
3
Content Based
-21
Density 200%


_Ink Settings_
+12 Brightness
-2 or 3 contrast


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## treefox2118

Printhead height makes all the difference in the world. As does printer and platen levelness. I learned both from our neoflex and realized that most of my problems with my EasyT were due to my printhead being too high and the printer not being PERFECTLY level.

Thanks for sharing!


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## RobP614

treefox2118 said:


> Printhead height makes all the difference in the world. As does printer and platen levelness. I learned both from our neoflex and realized that most of my problems with my EasyT were due to my printhead being too high and the printer not being PERFECTLY level.
> 
> Thanks for sharing!


I learned that recently as well! We recently moved our business out of the house and into a commercial space. 

When we moved in I leveled the printer, realized that the platen wasn't level...fixed that...and realized that my humidity gauge that I had been using for 2 years wasn't accurate, it was off 7-10% reading low so when I got the room to 55% it was really 65%; which was making the conditions to humid for the printer!

Took two+ years but I've got the printer dialed in pretty good; just wish I had a decent bulk system for the printer now the refillable carts are a pain!


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## treefox2118

Yeah, I hate those carts, too. I'm still hopeful that Andy will release a hack to reduce ink charges after reset.


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## RobP614

I bought a decoder for the printer from China that resets all the chips when I get one ink error. So now I get 8 times less ink errors.

Here are some bad pictures of it!


















I am lucky because my printer is an r1900 base so there is a decoder for it...


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## treefox2118

You are lucky -- the R1900 definitely is superior in terms of the ink reset issue. Nice!


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## metalbone

Rob What Rip are you using?


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## RobP614

EKPrint Studio Version 4.0.2


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## metalbone

Ah, thought thats what those settings looked like. Demo'ed EKPrint while back, just have to save up the cash to buy a license. I really like the demo.


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## Smalzstein

metalbone said:


> Ah, thought thats what those settings looked like. Demo'ed EKPrint while back, just have to save up the cash to buy a license. I really like the demo.


You can also try White RIP. I'm playing with if for a while now and I'm really impressed.


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## metalbone

I did, couldn't get it to work with the R2200/T-Jet2. Not suprising as its not supported according to their site.


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## RobP614

I liked WhiteRIP but the cost is to high for me to switch...I really need a better RIP for my 3880 DTG Printer...but over $1500 for a RIP is over my software budget!


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## ghostofmedusa

Thank you for posting this info on FB Inks. I absolutely cant wait get our complete set of FB in 2 weeks. Will be using with IA PT (Have 5 Gals of the stuff). The IA really helped the stop cracking with the Dupont White, not all the way though...

I will post a nice torture test with stretching, Regular Washing. Also playing around with idea of using WUB on whites and lights as well as dark Tees... As I dread explaining the difference between the feel of finished White and dark garments to customers. They always ask: Why cant you get it nice and thick on the whites? And then I am left bs-ing them about how great a "Soft Hand" feel is. I learned that nobody really cares about a "soft hand". 90% of our customers only care about getting a kicka$$ print without all the setup fees involved in screen printing... If the elasticity of the FB is as good as I am reading about here, then I see every reason to apply a WUB to white tees alike. Although I still like to do the black trick where Kothari doesnt print WUB under anything black... Really helps with the WUB coming thru on the black. Blacks always look better without it.

Anyways, will post a nice tut soon. Thanks again!

-G


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## metalbone

RobP614 said:


> There are two tricks, getting the printhead as close as possible to the garment (within reason)...which is tricky with an EasyT.
> 
> and...the settings! I use:
> 
> *Fine - CMYK *
> Med
> 3
> Logo or graphic (Graphic isn't as good with color matching)
> Density 100%
> 
> 
> 
> *Fine - White*
> Med
> 3
> Content Based
> -21
> Density 200%
> 
> 
> _Ink Settings_
> +12 Brightness
> -2 or 3 contrast


What print speeds do you get with these settings?


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## RobP614

Fine/Fine or 1440x720 for both EK doesn't like mixing print modes you'll see alignment issues. I have however I recently purchased a copy of EZ artist and found the color profiling significantly better! But it's really $$$ 

Better is EZ artist:


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## Ben KDIS

Wow, huge difference there with the colours. That looks great.


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## metalbone

Rob, what are your print times with those settings in EKPrint. One of the things I had issues with when I demo'ed EKPrint was the print times were through the roof on everything. I know its because I had the settings maxed out (don't recall exactly what they were) so I am curious how fast or slow your settings print.


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## RobP614

metalbone said:


> Rob, what are your print times with those settings in EKPrint. One of the things I had issues with when I demo'ed EKPrint was the print times were through the roof on everything. I know its because I had the settings maxed out (don't recall exactly what they were) so I am curious how fast or slow your settings print.


I think around 2:45 for white and 50 secs for CMYK.


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## Ben KDIS

RobP614 said:


> Fine/Fine or 1440x720 for both EK doesn't like mixing print modes you'll see alignment issues. I have however I recently purchased a copy of EZ artist and found the color profiling significantly better! But it's really $$$
> 
> Better is EZ artist:


Rob, can I ask - have you tried Firebird inks with Kothari or WhiteRip? How do they hold up in comparison to EZ for colour accuracy?


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## RobP614

Ben KDIS said:


> Rob, can I ask - have you tried Firebird inks with Kothari or WhiteRip? How do they hold up in comparison to EZ for colour accuracy?


I have not tried WhiteRIP yet with Firebird but I am hoping to get my hands on a copy of Kothari in the next month or so! Honestly, the color profiles are basically identical to DuPont so if it looks good/great with "the other guys ink" it's going to look great with all the benefits of Firebird ink.


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## Ben KDIS

RobP614 said:


> I have not tried WhiteRIP yet with Firebird but I am hoping to get my hands on a copy of Kothari in the next month or so! Honestly, the color profiles are basically identical to DuPont so if it looks good/great with "the other guys ink" it's going to look great with all the benefits of Firebird ink.


No, totally appreciate that. But looking at the difference between the print with EK and the one with EZ. There's a big difference. I've tried emailing Kothari twice, but no one ever responds. I don't even know if they do a trial.


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## RobP614

Ben KDIS said:


> No, totally appreciate that. But looking at the difference between the print with EK and the one with EZ. There's a big difference. I've tried emailing Kothari twice, but no one ever responds. I don't even know if they do a trial.


I have heard that Kothari is a very hard company to communicate with; but results seem to show they have a great product. 

I never realized how much of a difference the RIP made! I have a 3880 based DTG printer that EK can barely run (the machines been not used for almost a year due to that).

So testing alternative RIPs is a must if I want to run that printer! (I may just sell it though)


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## Ben KDIS

RobP614 said:


> I have heard that Kothari is a very hard company to communicate with; but results seem to show they have a great product.
> 
> I never realized how much of a difference the RIP made! I have a 3880 based DTG printer that EK can barely run (the machines been not used for almost a year due to that).
> 
> So testing alternative RIPs is a must if I want to run that printer! (I may just sell it though)


Indeed. I wonder if it's just that the profiles are better, or if there is something in the software causing the disparity. It doesn't even look like it's just the saturation of the colours, it looks like the colours are actually off point with EK. Presume it was exactly the same file used in both rips? Any other differences in the production?

Going to try Kothari one more time, other than that - I think WhiteRip is the only other option for our machine.


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## RobP614

Ben KDIS said:


> Indeed. I wonder if it's just that the profiles are better, or if there is something in the software causing the disparity. It doesn't even look like it's just the saturation of the colours, it looks like the colours are actually off point with EK. Presume it was exactly the same file used in both rips? Any other differences in the production?
> 
> Going to try Kothari one more time, other than that - I think WhiteRip is the only other option for our machine.


 Same file. The only other difference was the shirt type but not the direction you'd except the better print was a PC61 (port and company) and the other print was a Keya ringspun.


I think...I am at ISA in Orlando so I can check the shirts themselves.


My honest opinion is that the color profiles are off in EK, it's been a battle for 2 years what "mode" to use to get the right print out of EK...Do I need Graphic, Photo, Logo, Vivid, Text, Text1...do I have to adjust the brightness, the contrast....then you have density and # of passes and resolution!


With EZ Artist and the little bit I saw with WhiteRIP it's basically resolution and a solid ICC color profile.


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## Smalzstein

With EK is recomended for dark shirts to use brightness setting (up to + 30), this helps a lot with colors beeeing off.


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## RobP614

Smalzstein said:


> With EK is recomended for dark shirts to use brightness setting (up to + 30), this helps a lot with colors beeeing off.


I'll give that a try; just to see!


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## Ben KDIS

Smalzstein said:


> With EK is recomended for dark shirts to use brightness setting (up to + 30), this helps a lot with colors beeeing off.


How do you find WhiteRip compares to EK for colour accuracy out of the box? Does it need a lot less fiddling with the settings? Your machine is a R3K setup too right?


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## Smalzstein

Ben KDIS said:


> How do you find WhiteRip compares to EK for colour accuracy out of the box? Does it need a lot less fiddling with the settings? Your machine is a R3K setup too right?


I have couple of 3880. WhiteRIP rocks Developer aims high and sticks to it.


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## 4NU

Update.... I received some great results over the past week. The attached pic is a large design taken from an Ipone. That's why the picture looks blury. Or it could be my wife's unsteady hand. The design is 16 x 21 on a tablecloth for the fair and looks great. 

I have also run about 20 black shirts and some light colored shirts. I started using my wagner sprayer instead of my lawson pretreat machine to see if it had something to do with it. It did. Then i decided to try a cross pattern from the lawson and got great results. Now i just need to fine tune the pretreat and I will consistent across the board. 

I have noticed that i am not getting my white bleeding through the solid colors, the white sets quite fast on the small designs so i'm not having an issue with the colors and white mixing. I would occasionally get that with the Dupont ink.

I have run 1 shirt through 6 wash cycles and it is holding up just as good as the dupont maybe better. My print head is doing well. Might even have to perform less head cleans along the way with the white prints. Only time will tell. 

I have also started using the light garment pretreat and what a difference. Brighter colors, details are crisp and i found that you can tell if you missed a spot.

Shawn from FB was a great help in getting the kinks worked out and my down time was a few short days and it didn't hold up production. Now I will have to test the 50/50 shirts with the PT and inks. Any advice on this?

This is not meant to bash any of the type of inks out there. I believe that when i have a design that didn't print correctly it is probably from something I did. I have been printing on the part time basis for 18 months and each week i learn something new.


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## kombi

Hi All.. I have been testing the FB white ink with DuPont CMYK for a few days. We have ran onto issues from day one. The white seems to very opaque and when the DuPont CMYK is applied on top of the FB white. We are seeing the color either being soaked in by the white or not as vibrant in color as we had with the DuPont white. We are using DTG Rip Pro v.05, Viper DTG, we have tried many different settings in our RIP but none of them are working for us.. So not sure if it us and our RIP settings or Ink with our RIP. But at this stage we are not seeing the same results as others not sure why. If things change we will post back...


Inkjet Printers, Color Profile Large Format Printer, RIP Software,Film positive,PDF Converter & PostScript - iProof Systems Inc.


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## lazographics

kombi said:


> Hi All.. I have been testing the FB white ink with DuPont CMYK for a few days. We have ran onto issues from day one. The white seems to very opaque and when the DuPont CMYK is applied on top of the FB white. We are seeing the color either being soaked in by the white or not as vibrant in color as we had with the DuPont white. We are using DTG Rip Pro v.05, Viper DTG, we have tried many different settings in our RIP but none of them are working for us.. So not sure if it us and our RIP settings or Ink with our RIP. But at this stage we are not seeing the same results as others not sure why. If things change we will post back...
> 
> 
> Inkjet Printers, Color Profile Large Format Printer, RIP Software,Film positive,PDF Converter & PostScript - iProof Systems Inc.


Which brand of pretreatment are you using?


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## Teez310

kombi said:


> Hi All.. I have been testing the FB white ink with DuPont CMYK for a few days. We have ran onto issues from day one. The white seems to very opaque and when the DuPont CMYK is applied on top of the FB white. We are seeing the color either being soaked in by the white or not as vibrant in color as we had with the DuPont white. We are using DTG Rip Pro v.05, Viper DTG, we have tried many different settings in our RIP but none of them are working for us.. So not sure if it us and our RIP settings or Ink with our RIP. But at this stage we are not seeing the same results as others not sure why. If things change we will post back...
> 
> 
> Inkjet Printers, Color Profile Large Format Printer, RIP Software,Film positive,PDF Converter & PostScript - iProof Systems Inc.


If my guess is correct u are getting this white speckled look right? Switch your cmyk as well. The firebird cmyk is just as important as the color inks will matte down the fibers not allowing that speckled look if the white ink hasn't completely settled yet.


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## kombi

IA Treatment ... No speckled look at all. With our pre-treatment process we get very little speckled prints that we discard. I can not see it being a CMYK issue. What it looks like to me is the white is not going down as thick, some of the color of the shirt is still showing through. It very opaque white is the best I can described it. With the same rip settings the DuPont white ink goes down thicker no shirt color showing. I cannot seem to adjust for this opaqueness in the RIP yet. When I turn up the white density very little affect. Going to run a few more test ...


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## Teez310

Little confused. When you say very opaque white, that usually means very solid white. 

So what you are getting is not a very solid white?

The speckled look I talk of is when the white ink hasn't settle yet and your cmyk is laid on or when heat is introduced and your design speckled out. This has nothing to do with pretreatment.


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## kombi

Sorry I left out non in the opaque description. So yes not a very solid white coverage...


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## kombi

Here are a few pixs... The FB image is not from fiber sticking-up on the shirt.


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## Smalzstein

Do you have FB pretreatment? 

I've seen something like that once before when I was using off brand PT.


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## jgabby

kombi said:


> Here are a few pixs... The FB image is not from fiber sticking-up on the shirt.


Could you please explain exactly difference between left and right ?


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## sandmanbjj

What material is that being printed on? Looks like a very loose weave


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## kombi

We have no firebird PT. We have been using IA PT. We where offers some FB PT that should be be here soon. We will you all know the outcome.

The left image is FB with IA pt (not close to being as vibrant to the right image) and the right is DP with IA pt...The image names are marked as such. When you click to view the image you will see in the lower left hand corner the image name. Hope this helps.

100% cotton PC61 6.1oz ... Been using the for years without issues.


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## Smalzstein

I think it might be pretreatment issue. I used FB with dupont CMYK on top without any issue (and I know a lot of people who did this that way).

As I mentioned before I had this problem once before when I was using korean PT, the white looked great but CMYK on top printed exactly like your image.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS

Try laying down more IA or using FB PT


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## johnsherman

Hi. We use an Equipment Zone Speed Treater and exclusively Firebird ink and Pretreat. We had a gallon of IA and tried it, but it did not work nearly as well as the Firebird Pretreat. The Firebird product gives great performance both on 100%Cotton and 50/50 Cotton / Polyester. By the way, we are printing with a Veloci-jet XL printer in an extremely controlled environment. We print daily. We do a cleaning within 15 min of the end of our print day. We buy the Firebird Ink in 1 liter bottles and refill our own bags. Works like a charm. Hats off to Shawn at Firebird for the best customer service in this industry.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS

That sounds pretty accurate because FB pretreat is tailored to FB inks


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## synful prod

johnsherman said:


> Hi. We use an Equipment Zone Speed Treater and exclusively Firebird ink and Pretreat. We had a gallon of IA and tried it, but it did not work nearly as well as the Firebird Pretreat. The Firebird product gives great performance both on 100%Cotton and 50/50 Cotton / Polyester. By the way, we are printing with a Veloci-jet XL printer in an extremely controlled environment. We print daily. We do a cleaning within 15 min of the end of our print day. We buy the Firebird Ink in 1 liter bottles and refill our own bags. Works like a charm. Hats off to Shawn at Firebird for the best customer service in this industry.


I am picking up an Equipment Zone pretreater very soon. I was wondering what settings you used for the best results on the pretreat machine. I assume you got the blue model? I am actually buying the larger older model, the one with its own stand.


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## DieterZuniga

Sorry guys 
I live in Peru and I'm very interesting to get a DTG printer , I would really great full if somebody were able to help me.
I think exist two ways ,white ink or discharge ink but I don't know about the advantage and disadvantage between them 
I was seeing a Mimaki gp604d and belquette Mod1, both look solid machines but I think there are difference like performance production,inks and other stuff why I don't know.
Sorry for introducing on your discussion 
B.R
Dieter 

Thanks


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS

DieterZuniga said:


> Sorry guys
> I live in Peru and I'm very interesting to get a DTG printer , I would really great full if somebody were able to help me.
> I think exist two ways ,white ink or discharge ink but I don't know about the advantage and disadvantage between them
> I was seeing a Mimaki gp604d and belquette Mod1, both look solid machines but I think there are difference like performance production,inks and other stuff why I don't know.
> Sorry for introducing on your discussion
> B.R
> Dieter
> 
> Thanks


PM me amigo puedo explicar la diferencia


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## johnsherman

We also have the larger older black SpeedTreater. So far we have mostly been printing on darks, so our settings are 45 lbs pressure and a speed of 28. Watch each time you treat to ensure that you get an even spray. Again, with Firebird PreTreat and Firebird Ink, we get GREAT prints.


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## synful prod

Does your treater not spray even all the time? I thought that was the whole point behind them. Did you have any problems initially with setup. Etc


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## ksergentakis

Sorry to bother you. Are you still using Firebird Inks on your Neoflex? I am considering switching over.
Thank you again for your time.


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## johnsherman

Actually what we have is the Equipment Zone Veloci-Jet XL. Yes, we are still loving Firebird Ink and their pretreat.


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## thedigiguy

Great testimonial!

Thanks.


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## sandmanbjj

I'm curious, has anyone been having trouble with pretreatment staining garments? What I mean by staining is I can clearly see where I sprayed the pretreatment on every garment. 
I figured out it does better with thicker shirts but the light weight shirts look like they shirt got wet and stained. Even after washing which I can't wash a customers shirt anyway. 
I'm using firebird pretreatment and ink. 


Sent from my SM-G900V using T-Shirt Forums


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS

sandmanbjj said:


> I'm curious, has anyone been having trouble with pretreatment staining garments? What I mean by staining is I can clearly see where I sprayed the pretreatment on every garment.
> I figured out it does better with thicker shirts but the light weight shirts look like they shirt got wet and stained. Even after washing which I can't wash a customers shirt anyway.
> I'm using firebird pretreatment and ink.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using T-Shirt Forums


What brand are your shirts? Staining can happen with any brand pretreatment


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## Smalzstein

sandmanbjj said:


> I'm curious, has anyone been having trouble with pretreatment staining garments? What I mean by staining is I can clearly see where I sprayed the pretreatment on every garment.
> I figured out it does better with thicker shirts but the light weight shirts look like they shirt got wet and stained. Even after washing which I can't wash a customers shirt anyway.
> I'm using firebird pretreatment and ink.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using T-Shirt Forums


What kind of paper are you using for curing PT? In my expierience telfon sheets and some types of white parchement or baking paper can cause this. 

We use only brown backing silconed paper and it works best for us


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## sandmanbjj

Thanks for the heads up. I been using mostly next level 60/40 shirts. 
Plain white parchment paper. 

When I say staining, I should say it's dry but where the pretreatment is you can see it. Especially on gray shirts that I print on. I spray on the pretreatment, walk it to my heat press, at 350 f. Medium to light pressure. 20 - 30 seconds. After it's dry you can see the pretreatment line. The material that's treated is slightly darker than the non pretreatment areas. It stands out on gray. 
I have also tried letting the garment sit and dry, then pressing it. Same result. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using T-Shirt Forums


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS

What brand shirts? I think that it could be the poly blend. Have you seen this on cottons?


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## FIREBIRDshawn

For years, there has been feedback regarding white ink pretreatment ("dark garment pretreatment") staining light-colored shirts - the unsightly, yellow-brown "box outline" that appears after heat pressing.

Typically, a black colored t-shirt can hide this discoloration. But for Light Blues, Greys, Lime Greens, Pinks, and a whole lot of other t-shirt colors, the discoloration is obvious and can not be easily explained to a customer.

As Anthony mentioned, this true for all existing dark-garment pretreatments currently available. It is a result of a raw material in the pretreatment that is sensitive to heat. This raw material is a reactive component and turns yellow-brown as it is cured. 

FIREBIRD Ink has conducted a lot of R&D on this issue and we will post updates on a potential new product very soon that will help all DTG end users that experience pretreatment discoloration.

FIREBIRDShawn (9/16/14)







sandmanbjj said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I been using mostly next level 60/40 shirts.
> Plain white parchment paper.
> 
> When I say staining, I should say it's dry but where the pretreatment is you can see it. Especially on gray shirts that I print on. I spray on the pretreatment, walk it to my heat press, at 350 f. Medium to light pressure. 20 - 30 seconds. After it's dry you can see the pretreatment line. The material that's treated is slightly darker than the non pretreatment areas. It stands out on gray.
> I have also tried letting the garment sit and dry, then pressing it. Same result.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using T-Shirt Forums


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## RobP614

On a different note; different then the pretreat discoloration....

I have been mean to share a few new photos of a shirt printed with Firebird Ink and Pretreat.

This shirt has now been washed over 10 times (I am wearing right now)...no sign of wear AT ALL!!! 




























It's absolutely amazing!!! I can't say how happy we've been with all of Firebirds products.

Thanks Firebird for staying on the cutting edge and consistently working to R&D new products to make DTG printing better for everyone! (Printers and our customers alike)

-Rob


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## thedigiguy

Those prints are awesome! Great work.


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## sandmanbjj

Thanks for the replies. 
I will p retreat a shirt and post a pic of exactly what I mean. There has not been "discoloration" but it still looks wet, even though it's completely dry. It prints fantastic, but you see exactly where the pretreatment is. 
On thicker 100% cotton shirts I notice after 1 wash it's no longer noticeable. But anything less than 5 oz it seems to just be there washing or not. 
It's not a huge problem as I direct my customers to garments that will look best when printed, and if they don't want what I can offer as a product I stand behind then I send them to the next guy with my blessing. (I'm a hobby printer in my spare room basically) 
I have given up printing of any kind on the next level triblend shirts as they just don't hold any type of ink combination I try. I usually offer plastic ok transfers or find a new printer. The next level triblend is a huge favorite with the crossfit community. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using T-Shirt Forums


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## Vermilion

I know this post is old, but do you think this decoder could be effective with my DTG K3 which is also R1900 based? I have pain with my printer doing ink reset/purging every 2,3 shirts, wasting my nerves and ink.


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## Revan

Has anyone tried Firebird ink in a Brother GT-381 dtg?


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## FBNick

Revan said:


> Has anyone tried Firebird ink in a Brother GT-381 dtg?


At the moment we don't have inks for GT-3 printers. We've done some beta testing so you might have heard a rumor about it, but we're not to the point where we're ready to sell it.


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## GabiLangerova

Hi, I have a problem with a print head. I own a DTG M2 printer and use Firebird inks. CMYK nozzles are good but white nozzles aren't. The white ink (nozzles) work at 60% only. I changed print head 2 weeks ago so I need some advice. Can Last Resort Solution help my printer? Thank you.


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