# Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!



## davidrafal (Jan 17, 2017)

Hi everybody,
I bought the Epson WF 7110 and Cobra Ink CIS system. They were ideal as I started production, but then the Epson refused to recognize the Cobra CIS. 
I ended up getting replacement parts from Cobra, but this didn't help.
I even bought a new Epson WF 7110, it only worked for a day before refusing to recognize the Cobra CIS.
I love the Epson for it's 13x19 print size and for its price.
I love the idea and price of the Cobra CIS and there inks, but have been shut down and not able to print because the printer quickly tells me it does not recognize the CIS. 


Any advice on solving this problem (I have tried a lot of solutions)?
Any suggestions for a CIS that does work reliably with the Epson WF 7110?
Any suggestion for an alternative and affordable sublimation system that prints the 13x19 prints?
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.


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## Brieja (May 24, 2017)

Did you purchase your printer directly from Cobra? I read a little snippet that some of the printer versions intended for other countries may not recognize the CIS. I am considering this package from them but I'm concerned about it working correctly.


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## beerrubio (Dec 20, 2016)

After 3 weeks of struggling with that contraption from Cobra I gave it a heave hoe to my dumpster and went back to making $$$ instead of trying to fix that mickey mouse piece of junk. 

I make money with what some people call expensive ink. I don't care how cheap the ink is, if you can't print, you aren't making any money. I don't make money with junk that doesn't work and takes hours a day going through all these steps to be right back where i started.....an altered machine that won't "see" what it is supposed to due to a flaw in their "work around" That's just the hardware, the software (colormanagment) set u is another case of poorly worded, unfocused, wishful thinking. 

Good for all you folks with so much time on your hands you can figure it all out. You must be rich since your company doesn't need you to run it while you geek out over technical jargon us mere mortals fail to grasp while we multi-task a business that can't go on hold while we play


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## Kazzx (Jun 26, 2014)

I have had nothing but issues with my Cobra CIS and WF-7110. Even though the guys are quick to help via text, the issues get overwhelming.

Even today, my cyan ink stopped printing, again....I had to stop and blow out the print head, again...now I am down to the wire on several jobs. 2nd replacement printer, 2nd replacement CIS. And like you, it stops recognizing the cartridges mid print but usually if I re-seat them, it starts working again. Wasted paper, wasted time.

I share in your frustration. What set up did you end up going with?


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

I have both the Epson Artisan 1430 and WF7110...have only had one issue in over 2 years with cyan on the 7110 and, yeah, I had to do a manual purge and clean but it got working again and no more problems. On the 1430 an issue with the cartridge not being recognized...I changed out the chip and works fine. It's my opinion if you run the printers at least every couple days to make sure the heads do not clog you should be in decent shape. Of course there is always the bad machine as well. This was just my issues. I have made more than enough money to have a closet full of back up printers if they ever go bad )
I bought my printers off amazon and the inks from Cobra. I use their refillable carts...NOT CIS


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

I have a WF-7620 with Cobra refillable cartridges. I have been running it for over a year with no issues. I have not tried the CIS, though.


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## Kazzx (Jun 26, 2014)

How often do you have to refill the carts?


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

Kazzx said:


> How often do you have to refill the carts?


Pigment - about once every week or two.
Dye sub - about once a month, lately, though it looks like our volume is starting to increase. I have mainly used dye sub for mugs. I will probably buy a dedicated printer for dye sub soon, since I now print this at least once a week.

This depends on volume, of course.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Kazzx said:


> How often do you have to refill the carts?


That depends on how much printing volume you have. I went a couple months without refilling any but had an order that required over 120 full color, full sheet designs on 13 x 19 paper...depending on colors of design. I refilled all the carts only once on that project.....but the carts were almost empty when done so it took almost 2 full carts to complete job. No biggie, made very good profit on that job and cost of ink was minimal.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Kazzx said:


> I have had nothing but issues with my Cobra CIS and WF-7110. Even though the guys are quick to help via text, the issues get overwhelming.
> 
> Even today, my cyan ink stopped printing, again....I had to stop and blow out the print head, again...now I am down to the wire on several jobs. 2nd replacement printer, 2nd replacement CIS. And like you, it stops recognizing the cartridges mid print but usually if I re-seat them, it starts working again. Wasted paper, wasted time.
> 
> I share in your frustration. What set up did you end up going with?


If you used refillable carts you wouldn't have these problems


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Brieja said:


> Did you purchase your printer directly from Cobra? I read a little snippet that some of the printer versions intended for other countries may not recognize the CIS. I am considering this package from them but I'm concerned about it working correctly.


Beginners should use refillable carts first.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

beerrubio said:


> After 3 weeks of struggling with that contraption from Cobra I gave it a heave hoe to my dumpster and went back to making $$$ instead of trying to fix that mickey mouse piece of junk.
> 
> I make money with what some people call expensive ink. I don't care how cheap the ink is, if you can't print, you aren't making any money. I don't make money with junk that doesn't work and takes hours a day going through all these steps to be right back where i started.....an altered machine that won't "see" what it is supposed to due to a flaw in their "work around" That's just the hardware, the software (colormanagment) set u is another case of poorly worded, unfocused, wishful thinking.
> 
> Good for all you folks with so much time on your hands you can figure it all out. You must be rich since your company doesn't need you to run it while you geek out over technical jargon us mere mortals fail to grasp while we multi-task a business that can't go on hold while we play


I have been using Epsons and refillable carts since the beginning of inkjet sublimation. My printers last 2 to 3 years typically. 

I save over $300 month not buying SG inks.

To be successful you need to learn to maintain a printer, troubleshoot when necessary, and learn color management.

You don't need the SG "training wheels" to be successful.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> I have been using Epsons and *refillable carts* since the beginning of inkjet sublimation. My printers last 2 to 3 years typically.
> 
> *I save over $300 month not buying SG inks.
> *
> ...


Just thinking:



If you can save $300/month using Cobra ink, you have to spend at least $250/month on Cobra ink (or $550/month SC) because SC ink is appr. 2.2 times as expensive as Cobra.
$250/month of Cobra ink is appr. 1.2 liter/month = 1200 ml/month.
If one image needs e.g. 1 ml (1 cc) of ink, you have to print 1200 images/month.
If you have 4 refillable cartridges in your EPSON printer, you have 3 standard (4 ml) and 1 XL (10 ml) cartridge. That is 22 ml ink altogether.
If you have to print 1200 ml ink per month, you have to refill your cartridges at least 1200/22=54 times/month.
If you sell 1200 images/month for e.g.: $4 profit/image, you make more than $4.8K/month = $57.6K/year.
With the $300/month saving on ink, you save $3600/year.
For this saving, you are using a desktop EPSON printer and refilling your cartridges 54 times/month... 

Am I misunderstanding something?

With a wide format printer, you would have 700 ml or 1000 ml cartridges, that is 2.8-4 liter/printer, so you would have to touch the cartridges max. 4 times/year (!). You could use cheaper roll paper, you could have built in paper cutter, you could print larger images than 13"x19", etc.. For less than 10% of your 1-year profit, you could have the wide format printer and - if you'd still want to save extra on ink - you could still start messing with refillable cartridges and using other than SC ink.

I am not selling wide format printers! 

Just thinking...


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

api said:


> Just thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True, I picked up an HP Z6100 used that I use for pigment ink heat transfer paper. We do a lot of canvas panels (12 x 16). We pre-print them for "paint your pet" classes and then they paint over the pictures with acrylic paint (kind of like paint by numbers). I have also used that printer for Photo Tex window coverings and various other stuff. I go through a set of eight 750 ml ink cartridges about every 6 months with that printer. It wouldn't make sense to use the Epson for that. We use the Epson for printing brochures, flyers, checks and everyday office stuff. I also use it for dye sub printing (primarily mugs, but also some aluminum panels and a few shirts). Most of the shirts we do are either Heat Press Vinyl or Heat Transfer.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

api said:


> Just thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, I have 2 13 x 19 printers and many carts, which I rotate in and out. *Your math is wacko *, and _SG desktop inks are 5x as expensive_.

I sell mostly tiles and larger items, I make more than 4 bucks an item or I wouldn't be doing this  AND I sell wholesale, hence the volume.

And your wide format reasoning doesn't fit me. I do what I do with sub $200 printers, WHY should I use a wide format printer that cost >$5K. I run 2 printers at a time real often.

You don't have a clue about my business economics nor these printers.


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> Dude, I have 2 13 x 19 printers and many carts, which I rotate in and out. *Your math is wacko *, and _SG inks are 5x as expensive_.
> 
> I sell mostly tiles and larger items, I make more than 4 bucks an item or I wouldn't be doing this  AND I sell wholesale, hence the volume.
> 
> ...


We get $20 for a pre-printed canvas (retail). Though the classes are $50 and includes the pre-printed canvas. The canvas costs about a little over a buck and the transfer paper about a buck and then a little for the ink, so the markup is good. The big advantage of the large format printer is speed. I print them two up (24" media) and it spits them right out. I usually do batches of 20 to 30 and this is not my day job, so I have to squeeze it into my schedule. I can do 20 in about an hour, including pressing and sizing and framing the photos.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

SG 7100DN SubliJet-R HC Ink Cartridge - Yellow

SG ink on comparable Ricoh = $131.00 / 60 mL = 2.183333333333333

https://www.cobraink.com/store/#!/4...2-Single-Bottles/p/70830160/category=21215012

Cobra inks 8 OZs (236.58 mL) $58.00 / 236 mL = $0.245 per mL

Now if I had to buy SG @ 131 per color x 4 = $524 a month *then one can see how easy I save at least $300 a month* *not having to buy their ripoff carts*. I use more than 60 mL per color a month


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

john221us said:


> We get $20 for a pre-printed canvas (retail). Though the classes are $50 and includes the pre-printed canvas. The canvas costs about a little over a buck and the transfer paper about a buck and then a little for the ink, so the markup is good. The big advantage of the large format printer is speed. I print them two up (24" media) and it spits them right out. I usually do batches of 20 to 30 and this is not my day job, so I have to squeeze it into my schedule. I can do 20 in about an hour, including pressing and sizing and framing the photos.


If I had the demand for sublimation items larger than 13 x 19 I would use a different printer.

I have a 4880 that is 17 inches wide but I keep pigments in it.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mgparrish said:


> SG 7100DN SubliJet-R HC Ink Cartridge - Yellow
> 
> SG ink on comparable Ricoh = $131.00 / 60 mL = 2.183333333333333
> 
> ...


Actually I hadn't looked at SG prices for the Ricoh in a while, it's substantially more than 5X


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> If I had the demand for sublimation items larger than 13 x 19 I would use a different printer.
> 
> I have a 4880 that is 17 inches wide but I keep pigments in it.


Yeah, not sublimation. Like I mentioned before, I use the Epson WF-7610 for that (mostly mugs once or twice a week). We don't make a lot on the mugs. We sell logo mugs for $6 and custom mugs for $12. The logo mugs are good advertising, though and we give one away to groups of 10 or more (a picture of the group on the mug with an inscription and our logo on the other side) and they can buy more for $6 each. It is pretty low volume though. Maybe 12 mugs a week. This is all supplemental stuff for an art studio/wine bar/restaurant.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

api said:


> Just thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is where your logic is *flawed*.

Why would I have to buy an equivalent dollar amount of Cobra inks versus Sawgrass inks to save over $300 a month? And then produce that amount of product as you seem to think I would need to do. 

Please "splain" that to me.

... just thinking


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> Dude, I have 2 13 x 19 printers and many carts, which I rotate in and out. *Your math is wacko *, and _SG desktop inks are 5x as expensive_.
> 
> ...


First of all, not "Dude", you can call me "api". I am really surprised how aggressive you became...

It is very rare, but also your answer now is way off:



 Cobra ink - $0.25/ml (8 o.z, for $58)
 Sawgrass - $0.47/ml (700 ml SubliJet-E for $330)
 
0.47/0.25=*1.88* (not even 2.2 what I wrote, and definitely not 5x)

I really don't know what happened with you. 
Have a nice weekend...


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> Here is where your logic is *flawed*.
> 
> *Why would I have to buy an equivalent dollar amount of Cobra inks versus Sawgrass inks to save over $300 a month?* And then produce that amount of product as you seem to think I would need to do.
> 
> ...


I didn't want to answer to you anymore in this topic, but I really appreciate your general contribution on this forum, so I answer one last time.

My logic was this. If you REALLY want to save at least $300, you need some $ figures to work with: SG price vs. Cobra price for example.

If you are not buying Cobra ink for at least $250 (which would have been 2.2 x $250=$550 if you bought the same amount of ink from SG) you cannot REALLY save $300. The difference between $550 and $250 is $300 so you can say:

"_SG would have been $550, Cobra was $250 so I saved $300_."

NOW! Have a nice weekend...


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## Brieja (May 24, 2017)

After all of my research and all of the frustrated and disappointed Epson users I've read about, I bit the bullet and just ordered a SG400 from Conde. I hate to pay so much but I need a product that works consistently for me. I'm really sad about it, because I wanted a large format for the same price range, but I am done messing around with stuff that doesn't work right. Crossing my fingers that SG lives up to their relatively good image.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Brieja said:


> After all of my research and all of the frustrated and disappointed Epson users I've read about, I bit the bullet and just ordered a SG400 from Conde. I hate to pay so much but I need a product that works consistently for me. I'm really sad about it, because I wanted a large format for the same price range, but I am done messing around with stuff that doesn't work right. Crossing my fingers that SG lives up to their relatively good image.


I hear you, but having been a user of Epson for over 16 years I can say that a lot of what I read and issues people have and had were in my opinion (but truthfully, not all of them) were actually what we old timers call "operator head space" Unpack it plug it in, shove the carts in and turn it on...instructions? Naw...it's just a printer. Here, I'll show you. . . . 20 minutes later they are on a forum like this bashing the product, frustrated and disappointed like you say and can't figure out why it's not operating the way they "thought" it should after all we are the "plug and play" generation. In the mean time they try things that make matters worse all while the instructions sit quietly in the box....ignored. Fact of the matter, some machines though very few are defective....and the problem can usually be solved easily enough but the operator is either new to this equipment and process, got in a hurry being excited or whatever and didn't read or follow the instructions or proper guidelines and took shortcuts. Operator Head Space is a distant cousin of Murphy. . . . . If something can go wrong .....it will.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

It really comes down to a simple fact - CIS are horrible. 90% of the people will never get them to perform properly. It does not matter the brand on who makes it they just suck for the vast majority of users that have tried one.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Signature Series said:


> It really comes down to a simple fact - CIS are horrible. 90% of the people will never get them to perform properly. It does not matter the brand on who makes it they just suck for the vast majority of users that have tried one.


In my opinion, the real issue is the "war" between EPSON and the sublimation ink user. EPSON sells the printer for peanuts, hoping that they will make money on the EPSON ink. The "clever" customer however takes advantage of the low price of the printer and uses cheap, non-EPSON sublimation ink. EPSON fights back! 

The result: "_Ink cartridge is not recognized_", "_Warranty is voided_", etc.

Some people are lucky with the "work around" others are not. The bottom line: The "war" between the printer manufacturer and the customer makes the relationship difficult and "unhealthy". Win-win would be much better but - of course - more expensive. 

Nonetheless, serious business models cannot afford this endless fight and this unreliability. Those are the folks, who write this frustrated "_enough is enough_" type of posts. 

I was lucky enough changing my mindset, and upgraded to a problem-free system. I practically jumped out from a 15 years old Yugo to a new BMW more than a year ago.  No issues since then and the extra investment has been returned multiple times. 

Of course, I understand the fact that some business models need to take advantage of the cheap printer with cheap ink, and if they are also lucky in the fight with EPSON, they made a really good deal. Unfortunately however, the intentionally placed software "landmines" (by EPSON) in the printer's firmware, makes the whole printing process unreliable. Some people can live with that, others just cannot...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Again, you don't know these printers. You cannot get Epson branded sublimation ink for a desktop printer, only large format Epson and specific models. Also, yes Epson does try and thwart the after market, but they have been doing this now for 2 decades. The "cart not recognized" is due to a defective chip or a bad pin contact. The firmware does give you a " non- genuine" warning, but will allow you to print with a couple of button presses. I know this because I actually use these desktop printers.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

My larger point is that there is no war or struggle with the firmware, it gives us a non- genuine warning then we proceed. That is unless the after market chip is defective. The only thing one has to concerned with is doing a firmware upgrade after installing the printer. Then sometimes this causes issues. So doing a firmware upgrade should be avoided.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> My larger point is that *there is no war or struggle with the firmware*, it gives us a non- genuine warning then we proceed. That is unless the after market chip is defective. *The only thing one has to concerned with is doing a firmware upgrade after installing the printer.  Then sometimes this causes issues. So doing a firmware upgrade should be avoided*.


1.) Do you see the total contradiction between the *green *and the *red *sentences? 

2.) Why should somebody "_avoid the firmware update_" if there is "_no struggle with the firmware"_? (For lots of people the EPSON firmware update is set to automatic and just happens for them.) Don't you suspect that a new firmware - what you have to avoid at all costs  - is the very reason of the "_cart not recognized_" error messages, and it is also the part of the "'war" between EPSON and its customers? 

3.) How can you be sure that the "_cartridge not recognized_" message is caused by a wrong contact or a defective chip only? If this would be the case, Richard, from Cobra, could simply send a few new cartridges (with good, tested chips) and the problem would be solved forever. I actually did purchase a few sets of extra cartridges for my WF1100 and WF7610 from him - hoping that the new chips will work - but they didn't. After that, Richard couldn't help at all...

4.) Why do you mix in your post the _"non-genuine"_ warning message with the _"cartridge not recognized"_ message? Everybody knows that the previous can be solved with a few button presses, but the _"cartridge not recognized" _is an unsolved issue for lots of customers, and even for Cobra. 

5.) I have no proof, and I don't care anymore, but it is very logical, that the newer firmware comes with a newer, more sophisticated chip authentication algorithm, and the existing, old, non-genuine aftermarket chips cannot always "deceive" it. That's why people have so many problems with this EPSON desktop sublimation "work around". *It's time to acknowledge this possibility and solving it, instead of denying it to the "last ditch"...*


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

api said:


> 3.) How can you be sure that the "_cartridge not recognized_" message is caused by a wrong contact or a defective chip only? If this would be the case, Richard, from Cobra, could simply send a few new cartridges (with good, tested chips) and the problem would be solved forever. I actually did purchase a few sets of extra cartridges for my WF1100 and WF7610 from him - hoping that the new chips will work - but they didn't. After that, Richard couldn't help at all...


When I have had this issue, I just take a pencil eraser to the contacts and that seems to fix it. I think it is an issue of oxidation on the contacts. Rubbing alcohol and q-tip can also work. I have never failed to clear it up and get the cartridge working again.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

john221us said:


> When I have had this issue, I just take a pencil eraser to the contacts and that seems to fix it. I think it is an issue of oxidation on the contacts. Rubbing alcohol and q-tip can also work. I have never failed to clear it up and get the cartridge working again.



Cleaning the contacts was the first thing I tried. I am an electrical engineer; used professional CRC QD Electronic Cleaner instead of pencil eraser  - Didn't help.
Then wrote to Richard asking his advice. He just suggested pulling out the cartridge, waiting for 5 minutes and reinstalling it. - Didn't help.
When I replied that it didn't work, he never even answered.
Then I ordered new sets of cartridges from them. - That didn't help either.
I changed my mind, bought a wide format printer, and it works without issues since then. I also calculated, and even using Sawgrass ink, my costs didn't increase noticeably, because the roll paper is less expensive than the sheets, there are no misprints, discarded cartridges, etc., and above all, no frustration, no lost time, just continuous production. The paper is 275' long, the cartridges are 700 ml each, instead of 4. 

By the way, I am way too lazy to try, but I am pretty sure, if I would put the original EPSON cartridges back into my "brick" WF-7610, there would be no "_cartridge not recognized_" message, with the same contacts and the same firmware. I just don't care anymore; the WF-7610 scanner is working fine and that's all I need...


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

api said:


> Cleaning the contacts was the first thing I tried. I am an electrical engineer; used professional CRC QD Electronic Cleaner instead of pencil eraser  - Didn't help.
> Then wrote to Richard asking his advice. He just suggested pulling out the cartridge, waiting for 5 minutes and reinstalling it. - Didn't help.
> When I replied that it didn't work, he never even answered.
> Then I ordered new sets of cartridges from them. - That didn't help either.
> ...


I'm glad your happy with the Ricoh and Sawgrass, really, but the cleaning, resetting of cartridges have also worked for me. I have the 1430 and the 7110. On one cartridge I replaced the chip and it's been fine since. I did put the original carts in and it worked fine so it had to be the carts in my opinion. It was, and now they are working fine. My firmware has been updated a few times since I started using Cobra inks and carts with no issue other than Epson telling me that I'm not using Epson Ink and do I want to continue...Going forward I may want to disable that update but for now I hit yes and print away. In the end you say you did not put the original carts back in so to be fair you might just have gotten a "bad' printer? .... anyway some like Mercedes some like Chevy..... My Chevy's are fine. Good luck to you.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

api said:


> mgparrish said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, I have 2 13 x 19 printers and many carts, which I rotate in and out. *Your math is wacko
> ...





api said:


> mgparrish said:
> 
> 
> > My larger point is that *there is no war or struggle with the firmware*, it gives us a non- genuine warning then we proceed. That is unless the after market chip is defective. *The only thing one has to concerned with is doing a firmware upgrade after installing the printer.  Then sometimes this causes issues. So doing a firmware upgrade should be avoided*.
> ...


 You are beyond irrational, Sawgrass does not support any of the Epson printers in discussion. Why should I buy Sawgrass ink that is meant for a large format printer, with no ICC available? FACT Sawgrass inks for DESKTOP PRINTERS are greater than 5X the cost of my inks. For the Ricoh I mention closer to 10x. You can't break my argument using wide format inks that aren't supported on these printers in discussion here. And they sell in quantities way larger than I need? Just plain kook logic. There is no epidemic of chip problems, I have Cobra chips and they work just fine. Same firmware as everyone e. Things can and do go bad. Epson firmware is not the reason for a few isolated chip defects.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> You are beyond irrational, Sawgrass does not support any of the Epson printers in discussion. Why should I buy Sawgrass ink that is meant for a large format printer, with no ICC available? FACT Sawgrass inks for DESKTOP PRINTERS are greater than 5X the cost of my inks. For the Ricoh I mention closer to 10x. You can't break my argument using wide format inks that aren't supported on these printers in discussion here. And they sell in quantities way larger than I need? Just plain kook logic. There is no epidemic of chip problems, I have Cobra chips and they work just fine. Same firmware as everyone e. Things can and do go bad. Epson firmware is not the reason for a few isolated chip defects.


*OH MY GOD!* 

*The whole discussion is about the option of using a WIDE FORMAT printer instead of a desktop!* 

In my FIRST post I wrote this to you: "_With a *wide format printer*, you would have 700 ml or 1000 ml cartridges..._"

Your endless rants about the expensive Sawgrass desktop inks make no sense whatsoever in this context. For wide format printers, you can use less expensive, wide format inks. Sawgrass fully supports those setups, the ICC profiles are available, and their ink price is 1.8 x Cobra ink price.

So much about MY (!) irrationalizm...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

What part of DESKTOP printers is the discussion here don't you understand? I also find it interesting that an Electrical Engineer didn't IMMEDIATELY substitute a KNOWN GOOD component like the OEM carts into the printer to isolate the problem. Just saying. This faulty business model and "War" with Epson you claim exists I would have thought an Electrical Engineer would be chomping at the bit to get to the root cause but you didn't have the presence of mind to do troubleshooting 101. Really?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Why buy a 5k$ or more wide format printer and liters of ink when you make small format items and your projected ink volumes don't justify? Nutty nutty nutty to me.


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## john221us (Nov 29, 2015)

This is a pointless argument, since everyone seems happy with their current solution. Mike is correct that many people need an entry level low cost solution and the Epson works great for that, especially for low volume. If your business justifies a large format printer and the numbers work for you, than I can see where that totally makes sense too, in that you also gain performance with the wide format printer. Personally, for dye sub, I only do about 50 mugs a month and the Epson works great for that. For the pigment ink printing, I have the wide format printer and I need it (though it is hard to swallow the ink costs, when you have to buy 8 of those big cartridges at a time). I have been running Cobra cartridges for over a year with very little problems, as have many here. It sounds like @api was a bit unlucky, though.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

john221us said:


> This is a pointless argument, since everyone seems happy with their current solution. Mike is correct that many people need an entry level low cost solution and the Epson works great for that, especially for low volume. If your business justifies a large format printer and the numbers work for you, than I can see where that totally makes sense too, in that you also gain performance with the wide format printer. Personally, for dye sub, I only do about 50 mugs a month and the Epson works great for that. For the pigment ink printing, I have the wide format printer and I need it (though it is hard to swallow the ink costs, when you have to buy 8 of those big cartridges at a time). I have been running Cobra cartridges for over a year with very little problems, as have many here. It sounds like @api was a bit unlucky, though.


 Thanks. Many in small format are home based and would never sublimate if not for low cost solutions.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

john221us said:


> This is a pointless argument, since everyone seems happy with their current solution. Mike is correct that many people need an entry level low cost solution and the Epson works great for that, especially for low volume. If your business justifies a large format printer and the numbers work for you, than I can see where that totally makes sense too, in that you also gain performance with the wide format printer. Personally, for dye sub, I only do about 50 mugs a month and the Epson works great for that. For the pigment ink printing, I have the wide format printer and I need it (though it is hard to swallow the ink costs, when you have to buy 8 of those big cartridges at a time). I have been running Cobra cartridges for over a year with very little problems, as have many here. *It sounds like @api was a bit unlucky, though.*


Let me close this conversation with a quick search here:



 _I bought the Epson WF 7110 and Cobra Ink CIS system. They were ideal as I started production, but then the Epson refused to recognize the Cobra CIS. __I ended up getting replacement parts from Cobra, but this didn't help._


_I even bought a new Epson WF 7110, it only worked for a day before refusing to recognize the Cobra CIS._


_After 3 weeks of struggling with that contraption from Cobra I gave it a heave hoe to my dumpster and went back to making $$$ instead of trying to fix that mickey mouse piece of junk._


_I have had nothing but issues with my Cobra CIS and WF-7110. Even though the guys are quick to help via text, the issues get overwhelming._


_I'm wondering how you like your 7610. I have one and it is a pain. It stops every 4th or 5th print and says it doesn't recognize the cartridge._


_The carts were filled and look primed. So I tied to set it up today and now I have the ''Cartridges not recognized" error._


_I get that kind of error message each time I refill a cartridge. Is there a 'continue amyway' prompt?_


_I have gotten that error , try to turn off machine with carts out wait 5 minutes install carts then turn machine on_


_I am using the epson wf7110 with the cobra cis system. Out of the box, I got the "Ink cartridge not recognized" which sticks you in a loop that will not allow printing. It took me a month to resolve and then came right back. At the moment it takes me about 20 min of trouble-shooting to print a single page_


_I have the 7110 with the Cobra CIS and when it simply will not recognize the cartridges I just insert the original Epson cartridges._


_It repeatedly keeps saying blk is not recognized. I've pressed it in with all my might and have tried to get passed this step for the last 3hrs._


_is my understanding the new Epson printer do not read refillable cartridges or CISS systems and when you try to install the original cartridge back, the printer refuse to accept the cartridges, that happen to a friend of mine_


_I had same problem, can you send me a pic of the cartridge where they contact to the head_


_i have inkjetcarts.us on a new 7610, took awhile but they were finally recognized_


_Hello. I have a new epson wf-7110 and a dye sub CIS (cobra ink) that I just installed, the printer says "cartridges are installed correctly" but then in next step is says: "Cartriges not recognized" and says I need to replace the ink cartridges._


_This is about a 5 month old 7110 as well. Never had so much trouble as this but consistently over and over it says ink cartridges not recognized._


_My WF7110 with Cobra CIS has suddenly stopped working. "Cartridges not recognized"_


_Cobra sent new chip, we tried different systems without the external inks, tried all the tricks we heard about, and nothing worked._


_…the problem still exists, and it is most likely NOT the contacts._


_UPDATE: *RESOLVED *Richard from Cobra Ink sent me a replacement combo chip. UPDATE: *UNRESOLVED* - Giving up on wf7110 and Cobra Ink_


_I suspect that one of the reasons that the 7110/7610 have such a huge problem with recognizing cartridges is that there is some extra bits of wiring that have to go to the chip for the manual reset to function._


_I do have a problem with the ink cartridges not being recognized._


_Then, about every other print, I get an alert that says "cartridge cannot be recognized"_


_Everything was working perfectly up until today when the ink light turned on and the status window says the printer cannot recognized the Light Magenta color._


_I have even uninstalled and re-installed the power driver and chip still not recognized._


_If you see one or more cartridges grayed out if, that means it's not recognized. If it's not recognized you should contact your ink supplier and have them help you troubleshoot. Replacement cartridges have different ways of "fooling" the printer into thinking it's using an actual Epson ink cart._


_Had that happen when i ran update on printer. Firmware will not recognize the cartridge. had to get a new printer. now I don't do run update. costly mistake I made after being told not to. I ran all the updates on all my printers and accidentally updated that one. --- Yes, Epson is trying to stay ahead of the aftermarket._


_When I press the ink button nothing happens and when I check the ink levels through the printer software it says that the ink cartridges cannot be recognized. I called the person who sold me the system and he had me make sure the cartridges were pushed all the way in which still didn't work and other then that he's as lost as me._


_Just bought a 7520, immediately had issues not recognizing the cobra cartridges. The problem seems to go away until I print in high volume, then every 1-2 pages printed it will say the YELLOW and occasionally the MAGENTA cartridges cant be recognized._


_I'm curious to see who else has the issues I do with my two Epson 7010 printers. The "fix" may be a driver or firmware update, but I'm cautious about applying one, given the rumor that Epson has changed the code sequence for the cartridge reset, and if the driver/firmware is updated, the CISS cartridges used with the printers will no longer be recognized._


_I bought the workforce 1100 and the magic flow CIS and to be honestI am pulling my hair out. After about 6 hours i finally got it to print, but had lines. Fixed that problem went back to try ancd print and now ink is not recognized and prime light stays on even after following all troubleshooting._


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

api said:


> Let me close this conversation with a quick search here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry but this post does NOT close the conversation...you just opened it up to more...I won't do a useless cut and paste of a bunch of threads..half of the 31 you posted were just "me too" responses. . . . I did a search on Ricoh sublimation print problems and found a fair share of them as well. . . .as well as another forum that specifically targets sawgrass and Ricoh problems....both printers and systems have their own issues and I'm sure (as pointed out here) people have their favorites and beliefs. As I look at the posts that you presented us here and the ones I read on the Ricoh issues I refer back to my earlier post on this topic.....at least 80% of all the problems presented were from "Operator Head Space" issues. I admit at first I had my share of them but once your learn your system these issues tend to disappear like magic....really, so I close with I love my Epsons even with all the quirks and problems everyone else seems to spew about them....I love the cobra Inks even with their little quirks that pop up now and again though manageable. Bottom line, I take really good money to the bank because of these products and will stick with them. The Sawgrass Ricoh brands are just to much of a expensive alternative and there are other things I do not like about their systems that I won't go into for now. . .In disclosure I did go to one of their seminars at a local distributor and was not impressed at all...only their inks -only their printers only their this and that....blah blah blah. . . .they lost potential customers actually only 2 people bought into it out of 30 attendees. 
The rest of us do Epson......


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

api said:


> Just thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_*This thread is NOT about wide format printers in the sense you talk about....not apples and apples. A desktop wide format and a 24-36 inch (or larger) plotter is a completely different animal. ....the OP's questions are about the Epson WF7110. Any time you buy bulk ink it will be a little cheaper.*_


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

I usually find when people can't form a coherent argument they resort to personal attacks and name calling. I only responded back to your nonsense argument to my ink prices. Let's be clear here, I went after _what you said_ and not a personal attack.

The topic and context of this thread is "Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!"

My statement, which you failed to debunk, was specific to ink prices ON THE DESKTOP since that is the context of this thread.

So using some crazy logic you argued against my statement by completely changing the context of it.

Real simple, let's start the discussion about buying 2 brands of pickup trucks. I only need a pickup truck to pick up stuff for my house from Home Depot. As we are discussing the 2 different brand of pickup trucks operating economies, and I make a comparison to 2 pickup truck brands you come in and argue about my cost statements by comparing it to a Semi Rig costing 10 times as much and used for a much larger payload. 

I would be a moron to buy a semi Rig just to haul a few items from Home Depot home don't you think. The vast majority of small format users here just need the "pick up truck". 

And you call me "Sick" and "Wooden Headed" 

You then throw in a false scenario about how it wasn't possible to save that $300 a month based on some TOTAL CRAP

"If you can save $300/month using Cobra ink, you have to spend at least $250/month on Cobra ink (or $550/month SC) because SC ink is appr. 2.2 times as expensive as Cobra.
$250/month of Cobra ink is appr. 1.2 liter/month = 1200 ml/month.
If one image needs e.g. 1 ml (1 cc) of ink, you have to print 1200 images/month.
If you have 4 refillable cartridges in your EPSON printer, you have 3 standard (4 ml) and 1 XL (10 ml) cartridge. That is 22 ml ink altogether.
If you have to print 1200 ml ink per month, you have to refill your cartridges at least 1200/22=54 times/month.
If you sell 1200 images/month for e.g.: $4 profit/image, you make more than $4.8K/month = $57.6K/year.
With the $300/month saving on ink, you save $3600/year.
For this saving, you are using a desktop EPSON printer and refilling your cartridges 54 times/month... "

I will state the error of this in 2 ways.

1. My statement and the context of this thread is small format, you threw in wide format parameters even though I don't have a wide format sublimation printer. So this is some dreamed up load of horse dung.

2. It's so simple my grandson in grade school can figure this out.

I go to the grocery and I need milk. I can buy 2 different brands of milk, Cobra brand milk is $1 a gallon, Sawgrass brand milk is $10 a gallon. I buy the cheaper milk at $1 a gallon, and I proclaim that I saved $9.

So in this scenario you would twist it around so that I would have to buy 10 gallons of milk at Cobra's price totaling $10 AND I would be need to consume all that to save the $9 savings I was referring to. Duh I only needed 1 gallon in the first place and that is all I bought. 

That is effectively your argument about the ink.

And you call me "Sick" and "Wooden Headed"


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Viper Graphics said:


> Sorry but this post does NOT close the conversation...you just opened it up to more...I won't do a useless cut and paste of a bunch of threads..*half of the 31 you posted were just "me too" responses.* . . . I did a search on Ricoh sublimation print problems and found a fair share of them as well. . . .as well as another forum that specifically targets sawgrass and Ricoh problems....both printers and systems have their own issues and I'm sure (as pointed out here) people have their favorites and beliefs. As I look at the posts that you presented us here and the ones I read on the Ricoh issues I refer back to my earlier post on this topic.....at least 80% of all the problems presented were from "Operator Head Space" issues. I admit at first I had my share of them but once your learn your system these issues tend to disappear like magic....really, so I close with I love my Epsons even with all the quirks and problems everyone else seems to spew about them....I love the cobra Inks even with their little quirks that pop up now and again though manageable. Bottom line, I take really good money to the bank because of these products and will stick with them. The Sawgrass Ricoh brands are just to much of a expensive alternative and there are other things I do not like about their systems that I won't go into for now. . .In disclosure I did go to one of their seminars at a local distributor and was not impressed at all...only their inks -only their printers only their this and that....blah blah blah. . . .they lost potential customers actually only 2 people bought into it out of 30 attendees.
> The rest of us do Epson......


My exact (and only) point was (answering to the notion that "_api was a bit unlucky_") that *there are a lot of* *"mee too" responses*. Thanks for pointing that out for everybody. So it wasn't a useless cut and paste; it painted a certain picture about the meaning of "_bit unlucky_" in this subject matter (unrecognized cartridges). 

I never mentioned Ricoh, I don't have one, I will never have one. The whole Ricoh-Sawgrass theme is a side-track. As you wrote: "_The rest of us do Epson......_" Mee too.  (and I also do Roland and Brother and HP)


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> I usually find when people can't form a coherent argument they resort to personal attacks and name calling. I only responded back to your nonsense argument to my ink prices. Let's be clear here, I went after _what you said_ and not a personal attack.
> 
> The topic and context of this thread is "Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!"
> 
> ...


OK. Let's push the reset button! 

Stop *attacking *my point, try to *understand it* instead:

1.) If you can "easily" save "at least" $300/month on ink, you save "easily at least" $3600/year. Right?

2.) $3600/year saving suggests that you have to use at least $3600 worth of ink, and you get it for free,  or - more realistically - you buy at least (I don't know) $5K-$6K worth of ink per year, or even more. Right?

3.) $5K-$6K ink is a large amount of ink. From Cobra, you can get 100 bottles 8 o.z. = 800 o.z = 23658 ml = 23 liter (!) ink for $5.800. Right?

4.) Even $3600/year buys 14668 ml - 14 liter (!) ink. Right?

5.) With 23 or even 14 liter/year ink usage, we are way inside the LARGE FORMAT printer territory, especially if you count the number of refills you need to do with the desktop's 4 ml cartridges. Right?

*That's why - logically - I started mentioning the large format printers **to you. *"_Just thinking.._." 

Even your FIRST WORD (!) in your answer was already derogatory: "_Dude... ...your math is wacko, bla, bla, bla._" 

6.) The title of the thread is: *"Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!"

*_7.) My point WAS and my point IS that if somebody uses sublimation ink BY THE LITRE, and wants a "*reliable and alternative *__*comparable system*" it worth at least looking into the WIDE FORMAT territory. It can be more reliable, comparable, and from a lot of point of view even much-much better solution. 

8.) True, the OP didn't mention the ink quantity he needs, but - in an indirect way - __you definitely did, and I wrote to you.

9.) _My whole excursus is false if you are not using "easily" "at least" 14 liter (free) (Cobra) ink/year. (Remember: 14 liter would cost your $3600 "savings" only.) 

10.) If you are using much-much less, and your small "pick up truck" methafor was totally valid, than you made a mistake when you stated the $300 savings/month. It happens, but in this case your math was waco. 

11.) Alternatively, my excursus is also false if you are talking about some extreme price reference. In that case however the reference itself is false, because there are more realistic options to use for the calculation of the savings. You are using the Sawgrass SubliJet-R (Ricoh) ink as a reference, but if you want to correctly compare it with a 13"x19" EPSON system, you must have to buy first a 13"x19" Ricoh SG800 printer with a bypass tray for over $2000. Why would we use the most expensive Ricoh desktop printer with a really ripoff Sawgrass ink price as a reference for our calculations of the savings? It just makes no sense to me... 

*All in all: I am NOT saying that a cheap printer + cheap ink is a totally bad solution, what I am saying is that it has very serious limitations, and IF the yearly used ink quantity - and other circumstances - allow that, it makes a lot of sense to step up to a WIDE FORMAT system. Your stated monthly savings suggested that you are close to that level (unless you made a mistake or used an extreme reference). 

*If you don't mind, from my side, the case is closed. It is the Memorial day weekend....


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Enjoy your weekend.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

[QUOTE
*All in all: I am NOT saying that a cheap printer + cheap ink is a totally bad solution, [/QUOTE]

Epson is not a "cheap" printer...nor is Cobra a "cheap" ink....they are reasonably priced vs those heavily overpriced, in my opinion of course. . . Sawgrass and Ricoh sublimation products. Unless your referring to those no brand Chinese options on Ebay, if so my apologies.  

Yes...I'm out now, also....everyone have a safe and happy Memorial Day.*


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## Kazzx (Jun 26, 2014)

api said:


> Cleaning the contacts was the first thing I tried. I am an electrical engineer; used professional CRC QD Electronic Cleaner instead of pencil eraser  - Didn't help.
> *[*]Then wrote to Richard asking his advice. He just suggested pulling* out the cartridge, waiting for 5 minutes and reinstalling it. - Didn't help.
> When I replied that it didn't work, he never even answered.
> Then I ordered new sets of cartridges from them. - That didn't help either.
> ...





Their ultimate answer after you try all their "tricks" is it must be the printer. Replace the printer. Gotten that several times from both Brad and Richard even after I replaced it and the CIS faulted within the first week.

And jeez...I haven't read this thread all weekend. Things got sideways quick!


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Kazzx said:


> Their ultimate answer after you try all their "tricks" is it must be the printer. Replace the printer. Gotten that several times from both Brad and Richard even after I replaced it and the CIS faulted within the first week.


But the OP didn't even put the original carts back in to see if it was printer or not. Also buying new carts won't work if you buy the wrong ones...the chips do not cross between say the 1430 and 7110...I bought a set of carts and the printer would not recognize them...thought I tried everything. When I sent photos to Richard he said he could plainly see my issue.....I purchased the wrong cartridges for my machine  he sent me out the correct ones and I was up and running....I go back to my original statement...operator head space...yes I get affected withit also


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Viper Graphics said:


> But the OP didn't even put the original carts back in to see if it was printer or not. Also buying new carts won't work if you buy the wrong ones...the chips do not cross between say the 1430 and 7110...I bought a set of carts and the printer would not recognize them...thought I tried everything. When I sent photos to Richard he said he could plainly see my issue.....I purchased the wrong cartridges for my machine  he sent me out the correct ones and I was up and running....I go back to my original statement...operator head space...yes I get affected withit also


And the gentleman claiming to be an _Electrical Engineer_ didn't put in the OEM carts either.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> And the gentleman claiming to be an _Electrical Engineer_ didn't put in the OEM carts either.


Mike, ..inside joke here, my father was an electrical engineer for the Army working on missile guidance systems for 47 years....he would have put the original carts back in as a matter of practical exercise...process of elimination...it's so simple. Not rocket science.....


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

Viper Graphics said:


> But the OP didn't even put the original carts back in to see if it was printer or not. Also buying new carts won't work if you buy the wrong ones...the chips do not cross between say the 1430 and 7110...I bought a set of carts and the printer would not recognize them...thought I tried everything. When I sent photos to Richard he said he could plainly see my issue.....I purchased the wrong cartridges for my machine  he sent me out the correct ones and I was up and running....I go back to my original statement...operator head space...yes I get affected withit also


Maybe I am missing something but I do not see anything to indicate the OP didn't ever try putting the OEM cartridges back in the printer and in fact never see another post from the OP. 

Maybe he got what he needed or maybe he took the high road while a never ending one-upsmanship thread took ever. Seems to always have one common factor when this occurs.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Signature Series said:


> Maybe I am missing something but I do not see anything to indicate the OP didn't ever try putting the OEM cartridges back in the printer and in fact never see another post from the OP.
> 
> Maybe he got what he needed or maybe he took the high road while a never ending one-upsmanship thread took ever. Seems to always have one common factor when this occurs.



My bad, David never said he did try to use the original carts.....which is a pretty easy way to resolve the printer able to recognize carts. the reply was for Api.....who stated he didn't try them.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Signature Series said:


> Maybe I am missing something but I do not see anything to indicate the OP didn't ever try putting the OEM cartridges back in the printer and in fact never see another post from the OP.
> 
> Maybe he got what he needed or maybe he took the high road while a never ending one-upsmanship thread took ever. Seems to always have one common factor when this occurs.


I guess it depends if OP means "Original Poster" or "Other Poster". I usually refer to the OP as the Original. I think the OP only made one post.

Regarding "one-upsmanship" you mean like the old days when I used to go at it with Riderz Ready?  Just Kidding


Edit:
Looks like Viper posted when I did, so he clarified.


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## beerrubio (Dec 20, 2016)

api said:


> In my opinion, the real issue is the "war" between EPSON and the sublimation ink user. EPSON sells the printer for peanuts, hoping that they will make money on the EPSON ink. The "clever" customer however takes advantage of the low price of the printer and uses cheap, non-EPSON sublimation ink. EPSON fights back!
> 
> The result: "_Ink cartridge is not recognized_", "_Warranty is voided_", etc.
> 
> ...


This is what I agree with. I make that 60K + in sales every year. My customers pay for the cost of the ink. If I have an unrealiable system and it won't work do to the fact that I am using a printer in a way that the manufacturer is doing everything they can to keep me from doing it and I am going through a company that makes a 'work around" that sometimes works, that causes me to have to shut down & fix it and stop making money.

Some egomaniacs here like to infer that we are to stupid to fix a printer. I figure I am too smart to waste my time when I can be making product. That is what butters my bread and a company that has top notch customer service and tech support is the way I will go. I easily go through 16 to 20 carts during high season and all the while put the profit in my personal bank account, so no complains from me with SG ink system.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

Beerrubio's post demonstrates how there are two totally different types of posters. You have a group and clearly the majority that do not count on any revenue from dye sub to feed their family and another smaller group that depends on dye sub as their main source of income.

The majority of people doing this for some extra cash most likely do not count their time as an expense and are not running anything close to capacity thus if their printer is down they are not really losing anything. On the flip side you have people who simply cannot afford to be down even a single day without significant impact on their business. Kind of like comparing this to a person who tinkers on cars in their garage versus those that simply take it to the dealer for maintenance/repairs. 

One thing I think everyone can agree on is CIS are not worth the massive headaches they cause for the vast majority of users. Remember my Dad always telling me do not spend $40 trying to save $20 which is exactly what most of us have experienced in buying a CIS. Looking to save a few bucks on ink while spending more in ink lost trying to make it work day to day.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Signature Series said:


> Beerrubio's post demonstrates how there are two totally different types of posters. You have a group and clearly the majority that do not count on any revenue from dye sub to feed their family and another smaller group that depends on dye sub as their main source of income.
> 
> The majority of people doing this for some extra cash most likely do not count their time as an expense and are not running anything close to capacity thus if their printer is down they are not really losing anything. On the flip side you have people who simply cannot afford to be down even a single day without significant impact on their business. Kind of like comparing this to a person who tinkers on cars in their garage versus those that simply take it to the dealer for maintenance/repairs.
> 
> One thing I think everyone can agree on is CIS are not worth the massive headaches they cause for the vast majority of users. Remember my Dad always telling me do not spend $40 trying to save $20 which is exactly what most of us have experienced in buying a CIS. Looking to save a few bucks on ink while spending more in ink lost trying to make it work day to day.


This is largely true. I'm somewhere in between those 2 you mention. For me it's a good way for money on the side, I have no risk. For someone looking for a full time income very few if any can do it with strictly a small format Epson and sublimating. I know a couple of people doing it but that is the exception and not the rule.

I can afford to be without a printer for a few days, but I don't have to be. At $150 a printer it's easy to have more than 1 and often I run both as the demand is there. I always have back up and I could run a whole army of these if I needed to scale.

CIS is the reason for most of these folks woes. If you need the amount of ink that a CIS offers then looking at the lowest cost Epson solution is probably not a good choice. 

There are more professional Epson models in the 13 inch arena that have much larger carts native to the printer as well as Epson ink tank that are OEM.

But ink costs do matter for me, I don't waste much ink and I can print reliably.

Another point people miss is that if you are going large format and you don't have the ink volume to support that, then you risk wasting your inks and damaging your printer since the clock is ticking on the shelf life. 

So if you have existing tshirt business being screen printing or whatever, then you might be able to fairly quickly get to those ink levels, but many looking at the low end of Epson are newbies often to the tshirt business and don't have the funds to risk. Going large format means you have to amortize that printer, it takes a while to recoup that investment and if you don't then you have ink festering in your print heads so as we say "use it or lose". 

I can chuck a $150 printer in a heartbeat. I get a year warranty and in one "run" that I do it pays for the printer and then leaves me with money in my pocket. So I have set it up so that I can't lose. If the entry into large format requires say at the low end of large format a 24 inch printer with near liter qntys of inks no way I want those inks expiring in a printer costing thousands of dollars. I do enough ink to be just at that demand but I get by just fine and use low end printers and low cost inks.

As you may recall when the Ricoh "graveyard" posts were epidemic here most of the users were letting their inks expire even with 40 mL carts. Wasn't the only factor, but the posts stopped almost entirely once the users were informed of the 6 month shelf life. So even at $1500 for a tabloid size Ricoh many users were not using them often enough and lost their investment as result.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

beerrubio said:


> This is what I agree with. I make that 60K + in sales every year. My customers pay for the cost of the ink. If I have an unrealiable system and it won't work do to the fact that I am using a printer in a way that the manufacturer is doing everything they can to keep me from doing it and I am going through a company that makes a 'work around" that sometimes works, that causes me to have to shut down & fix it and stop making money.
> 
> *Some egomaniacs here like to infer that we are to stupid to fix a printer.* I figure I am too smart to waste my time when I can be making product. That is what butters my bread and a company that has top notch customer service and tech support is the way I will go. I easily go through 16 to 20 carts during high season and all the while put the profit in my personal bank account, so no complains from me with SG ink system.


"Some egomaniacs here like to infer that *we* are to stupid to fix a printer." 

While you didn't call me out specifically I can't help but think you just took a cheap shot at me. My comment was specific to one person, who actually should know better than the average user just starting out in diagnosing his printer problem.

I help all kinds of people here and don't infer they are stupid. I called *one* gentleman out that came in here and blamed the problems on the "Epson conspiracy theory" but is claiming to be an Engineer and didn't have the very simple skill to determine that and without substituting the known good carts there is no way to know that. 

Even with the suspicion of such a thing then common sense would say there should be an epidemic of this, not just from users that make the mistake of upgrading firmware. But once the latest firmware is on the Epson assembly line then everyone that buys a new printer would have "cart lock-out" from the existing inventory of that vendors products. So he (the sublimation or cart vendor) would have to purge his inventory of the carts that use those chips. If you go through the posts here there is Zero evidence of that. Most certainly I would have have gotten word on that on this family of Epson printers using the 252XL carts.

So a little critical thinking and simple troubleshooting 101 that even most people that fix things can figure out to do was skipped. Even the most green fresh out of school Electronic tech wouldn't think twice about this.

Electrical Engineers should be masters of diagnosing these kinds of problems and go way beyond that. Failure Analysis is in every Engineers toolbox, troubleshooting is even simpler. To go and state the problem was Epson lock out without any proof or the proper way to diagnose is very reckless coming from someone claiming to be an Electrical Engineer.

_I know this because I am one_. We make judgments based on facts and evidence.

I can assure you Epson is not your issue "using a printer in a way that the manufacturer is doing everything they can to keep me from doing it" isn't the problem nor anyone else's. If the carts electronics are bad then the printer is doing as designed. 

_Epson designed these models for low capacity carts_, they didn't design for CIS, and even with that this stuff works if you use components that are in working order you only see the nag message and you can safely press the "Do you accept" dialog.

If you find that a printer that was designed to inform you when your carts are low or empty inconvenient too often then you shouldn't be looking at low end Epsons. Epsons from the factory don't understand CIS so you have to to press the reset button fairly frequently since it doesn't understand that you stuck larger tanks on it. _This is not Epson conspiracy_.

If you would like to debate the merits of my argument I'd be happy to oblige you. Otherwise engage me directly without cheap shot cowardly inferences to "ego".


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> "Some egomaniacs here like to infer that *we* are to stupid to fix a printer."
> 
> While you didn't call me out specifically I can't help but think you just took a cheap shot at me. My comment was specific to one person, who actually should know better than the average user just starting out in diagnosing his printer problem.
> 
> ...


Mike, I could dissect your thread and comment on each part just to back you up but...naw...don't think it would do any good with some posters.  Operator Head Space is alive and well.... You hit the nail on head as usual. I was starting to feel like a misunderstood snowflake  Kudos.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

mgparrish said:


> But ink costs do matter for me, I don't waste much ink and I can print reliably.


If you are using a couple liters a month you are greatly overpaying for ink through Cobra. Their liter price is outrageous and let us be honest. People will bash the "china" ink as cheap but I would but Cobra is buying ink form china and packaging. A liter cost, on the high side, $30 in which they sell for $200.

Using J-Tek as an example which I believe is the most popular ink on this forum for wide format and very good quality goes for about $120 from most dealers. You can find it on the internet for $100 and specials down to $85. 

Wouldn't cost much to create a profile and have top quality ink at 1/2 the price of Cobra. Once you create the profile you are saving $2500 a year for a better quality ink. Just something for desktop users who are using a decent amount of ink to consider.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Signature Series said:


> If you are using a couple liters a month you are greatly overpaying for ink through Cobra. Their liter price is outrageous and let us be honest. People will bash the "china" ink as cheap but I would but Cobra is buying ink form china and packaging. A liter cost, on the high side, $30 in which they sell for $200.
> 
> Using J-Tek as an example which I believe is the most popular ink on this forum for wide format and very good quality goes for about $120 from most dealers. You can find it on the internet for $100 and specials down to $85.
> 
> Wouldn't cost much to create a profile and have top quality ink at 1/2 the price of Cobra. Once you create the profile you are saving $2500 a year for a better quality ink. Just something for desktop users who are using a decent amount of ink to consider.


Excellent points.  And yes something I have looked at too.

I'm OK at the ink prices I'm paying now, it does allows me to use low end equipment without the risk. But yes, I am certainly leaning that way toward large format inks, probably Italian or Korean perhaps. Not a expensive proposition to prove that out with an additional $150 small format printer and $400 dollars in inks. 

The risk of having to do an ink dump is not an issue if those inks expire as at those prices as they are not sitting in printers till they are quickly consumed by small ink delivery (no ink lines). Only a small portion of the inks are ever committed at any given time in a printer lacking long ink lines and CIS, meaning the expiration can easily be managed.

Even where I am now probably at the point I can still save money and dump 50% of those in the toilet. Not that I would do that ... the inks are valuable in the market once there is a profile covering them. But you didn't hear that from me. 

So yes, the math you describe will indeed work.

I now have got about 200 sq ft. of my house freed up on top of the existing office I have for the PC and printers and includes a 15 x 12 garage lined with custom built in cabinets lined full on 2 walls and electricity capacity to run (2) 16x20's, which is my current setup for the presses and packaging area. 2 more rooms are empty now and about 200 sq. ft. 

Anyway I have nice options. I'm in a 2000 sq ft. 4 bedroom and just me and 2 dogs. Either that or my dogs get their own bedrooms.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

It seems ink expiration is a bigger problem on the desktop side especially early on with Ricoh gel inks. J-Tek liters do not even have expiration dates on them. I assume they could tell you manufactured date based on lot number but there is no such markings on the bottle. Typically in wide format ink does not sit around a long time but one has no way of telling how long it sat at the manufactures warehouse nor how long it sat at a distributors warehouse. Not saying it last forever but it does not seem to have this magical drop dead date.


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## beerrubio (Dec 20, 2016)

mgparrish said:


> If you used refillable carts you wouldn't have these problems


See.....it is all your fault!

You kept saying year after year to get the epson7110 from cobra, and so I finally did. My mistake was not seeing that you said to stay away from the cis system and stick with the refillable carts!


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## 517heather (Sep 21, 2012)

I used to use Jtek in a mutoh rj900 and it worked great. I wondered if it was possible to use in the little epson I just ordered from cobra, but figured I would just try their system as a whole and see how it worked out..so it would just be a matter of changing profile?


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## SigilProducts (Jan 8, 2017)

I've been using a CIS system and inks from inkXpro since January on my 7610 and have had absolutely no issues. Easy to install yourself, costs right around $100 for system (including full bottles of all four colors). Add the $150 printer and you have an extremely inexpensive and reliable setup. Just my 2 cents

-Terry
Sigil Products


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## ACedia (Jul 16, 2017)

Where are you guys finding the 7610 for 150 everywhere I go I see it for 240.higher than the 7620. I got the 7620 for 200.

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## SigilProducts (Jan 8, 2017)

Best Buy

_Terry
SigilProducts


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## ACedia (Jul 16, 2017)

This where I got mine from

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