# How to Gross 250k in 2009



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Hard to answer I know, but how can it be done strategically.
We have 1 auto, a versacamm and a dtg machine. It would mean more than doubling for us.
How many hands would be needed- on average, how many accounts, average order size?
Would it have to include a profitable web site or significant online orders?
Would it take a large amount of good volume contracts? 
I know we worked like slaves last year and did nowhere near 250k.
What does it take, we're ready to break back out da box. Go hard or go home.


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

i dont know but if u fine out be sure to let me know


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## Sicboy Worldwide (Dec 12, 2008)

One comment is that your web site is initially very impressive, but then every link leads to where you already are. Honestly a dissapointment. However your page gives the impresssion you are well equiped to handle any work load small to large. Your prices seem very reasonable too. I can feel the tension in your comments and hope that through your obvious tallent and determination along with help from your fellow brothers and sisters of the industry that your goals can be surpassed and we all can walk away a little bit better off learning from eachother. Best of luck Ridgely...

Benjamin


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## Sicboy Worldwide (Dec 12, 2008)

ridgely, check out the *SIMILLAR THREADS* link at the bottom of the page!! one post said that Affliction posted 3.5 million in sales last year. Many of the posts were very informative. Later.

Benjamin


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

250k Profit or just selling 250k??

You can sell 250k making 15 percent profit when working against big companies....
I think you gotta think what you wanna make for a profit margin and not just netting in.

More big job you do, less profit margin you make on it, more small jobs you do, bigger profit margin you make... I read somewhere a big company profits in sometimes same as little company when you narrow down how you gotta pay employees, overhead for larger place ect.


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## billm75 (Feb 15, 2007)

This is interesting, I'll have to think on it and get back to you. I've been wondering this myself. In fact, I'll settle for a NET profit of $60k this year, gross notwithstanding.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I just ran some numbers, I could probably after tax net 30k plus another 40k in my salary if we did 250k gross. 
Sean, i was talking about gross not net- Geez you're trying to get rich!
And about the website thing.... What a dang headache- I've been trying for over a year to get somebody to do it and do it right- no go. Maybe this year, I don't have the time or talent to pull off what I want.
Looks like it would take about 5000 man hours in production to do the 250k. I know that's $50/hr, but you gotta factor in customer service, clean up, mistakes, downtime, wasted time, breaks, equipment failures, PITA customers, etc, etc.
One thing is for sure, I can't get to it the way I'm running now.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I dunno, didn't know if you had your eyes on an S class Mercedes 

Internet has soo much potential, where I get alot of my business at this point, 75 percent of all sales aren't from my state anymore and I accomplish this is 4month not bad huh

I like simplicity of your site, your great graphics guy, but you got so much more potential using website

Show you do banners, signs, decal, Poster ect. 

every page kinda seems same and you need to change it up so people don;t think each page is same

You can only do so much Biz locally


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Yeah, one of my friends from the forum is gonna help me with the site. That's gonna be a big piece of the puzzle.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

It huge piece Ha.... internet sales is what makes or breaks large companies now a day
Amazon was one of only companies that made a gain last year around christmas and they don't even advertise anymore, Once you build an online client bases, you won't need to hussal people to check it out, word of mouth is all I get now : )

i don't advertise at all because clients are always satisfied and like working with me

SEO is gonna best invest you could make and a friend of mine does it if you need some done, all she does is marketing for internet


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

Ridgley, how are you currently advertising?


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I did some yard signs, but put them on telephone poles at big intersections. Did about 20 so far. Phone is ringing. Excellent exposure. We'll see how many orders are realized from it.
Have a full page full color local mag. ad- no money since November.
I send email blasts and pdf flyers to my email contacts quarterly.
Website is being redesigned.
I have an outside sales rep, may have a big one in the next few weeks. Supposed to meet with a good sales guy tomorrow.
I do flyers and get them out locally.
I do a lot of word of mouth.

I've found traditional advertising for this industry is sketchy at best.
What do you guys do, marketing/adv. wise?


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

wrap your vehicle!


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I'm scared.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

I wraped my vehicle and am amazed at the exposure, I can be several towns away and when I hand a potential client my business card and they see my logo, they always say, "OH! you drive the silver xterra!" 

We also joined a local BNI chapter (business networking international) and that has brought in good business and really spread the word about us. Its amazing what a small world it is and you can really get some great refferals.

we have found that magazine/newspaper ads have really been useless, at least for us.

Something cheap we do is print up "tear-off tag" flyers and put them up in every establishment with a bulitonboard that wouls let us, we make them nice on glossy paper, and they say "NEED T-SHIRTS?" in the got milk style font with our logo, they sem to work well. we put them up at the local colleges in the student centers and get alot of college club business.

we also do a search for scheduled 5k and 10k races in our state, many times you will find the direct contact e-mail of the race organizer.

our town has a parade in the summer, and we always have a float and throw t-shirts and candy.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Ours is word of mouth. We don't do any traditional advertising. Not exactly sure how people find us lol.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

out da box said:


> I did some yard signs, but put them on telephone poles at big intersections.


I would love to put out some signs but they really cracked down on that over here although the politicians seem to be exempt.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I can print process but the question is how to generate more demand for all services and how to get more orders. 
Thanks for the offer for files Fred, I will take you up on it.
I still think getting the website right is key.
I drive a chevy astro. Got it because it's a road dog. I'm gonna wrap it.
The Roland can pull weight. It should do us 50k this year.


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## ino (Jan 23, 2007)

wraping your car should be a must.


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## FAR Clothing Co (Dec 5, 2007)

Ya! People love this Van, always saying it looks awesome... Not even a wrap but looks killer.. Dubs and all.. lol


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

thats real similar to how mine is wrapped, I'll see if I can find a picture.

your van looks great by the way


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Yep, that's the ticket. Dont even have to do a full wrap with your white paint job. I need the dubs too! I really want 20's on my astro for when I wrap it. Gotta shine a little on 'em!


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## MardiGrasTexan (Oct 11, 2008)

Ridgely,

Sounds like you're doing mainly low margin big jobs. If you want to reach your goal of $250K, you'll need a better mix of "wholesale" and retail jobs. Your website is targeted toward low margin jobs(wholesale). These are the jobs that put food on your table. You need the jobs that put the boat in the carport. Do you not have designs of your own? If not, you need them and you need to push them through every available channel....your own website(several different ones for different designs), Big Cartel, etc. List your stuff wherever you can. $500 for 100 tshirts? Wow, you'll work yourself to death trying to reach that goal and still have a good profit. It's just my opinion, but you really need to print your own designs and hit the retail market hard. Work smart, not hard....that's my game.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm sure you read my story earlier, we grossed $120k in 2008 doing some custom printing.

We're hitting the retail side with our own brand soon like the above poster suggested. Make your own designs and sell them retail, make double the money.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> With direct marketing, I can get one of my shirts in the hands of the customer. Within the greater atlanta area, i could probably identify 1,000 prime customers. With a typical 5% response, that would equal 50 new customers. By marketing full color specifically, the new customers would all be wanting 4 & 5 color jobs.
> 
> The beauty of process is all the jobs take the same amount of labor, so there isn't a problem quoting a price up front for a full color shirt, without ever even seeing the art.
> 
> ...


just be careful not to tag yourself a process only shop, there is alot of money to be made in spot color, specifically the 1 and 2 color jobs.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

n.signia said:


> just be careful not to tag yourself a process only shop, there is alot of money to be made in spot color, specifically the 1 and 2 color jobs.


Yeah but there are literally millions of guys fighting for that business. I see Fred's point, he is differentiating himself and targeting a select market.

In the B2B gig there are many companies who have done extremely well by offering one service and doing it superior to everyone else at a reasonable price. I used to deal with companies that did one type of binding, another company did lamination, another did vinyl banners, another did 3 ring binders. Binders are a very profitable business btw.


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## Fresh Mode (Apr 9, 2008)

So wait, you have a DTG and an auto and you only grossed 125K in 2008?


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

wormil said:


> Yeah but there are literally millions of guys fighting for that business. I see Fred's point, he is differentiating himself and targeting a select market.
> 
> In the B2B gig there are many companies who have done extremely well by offering one service and doing it superior to everyone else at a reasonable price. I used to deal with companies that did one type of binding, another company did lamination, another did vinyl banners, another did 3 ring binders. Binders are a very profitable business btw.


agreed, however each of the services you mentioned likely require seperate equipment/machinery, where screenprinting with 4 screens or 2 there really is no difference (except its easier) I certainly think he should push the process service, just not so much that the person wanting 2 spot colors on 1000 tees thinks that process is all he does, and goes to another printer.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> The great thing about direct marketing is you can be anything you want to anyone you want.
> fred


well put


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I had a vehicle done in vinyl with phone numbers and info, etc. It did generate a lot of calls, and it did lead to some business. Now that I have the versacamm and can do vehicle wraps, I think it would generate phone calls and business. I just had a customer come and order a backdrop banner, he had his astro wrapped. It didn't look all that good, but the color scheme and rims made an impression.

I only had the auto last year, I just got the dtg and versacamm in December. And yes that's all we did last year. We'd be blessed to do 130-150k this year. Everybody's market and customer base and circumstances are different. Coming from where I started, I look like a "big" man in a lot of people's minds around my way. If I had the contacts and commitments and networks that some of you guys have, I'd be a millionaire. It is what it is. One thing's for sure I have been and am now pushing hard for more business and better business connections. I don't have a 2000/mo mortgage payment or a wife and children so I don't have to make 60k to survive. Not trying to be too harsh, but if half of you had to deal with the b.s. and break-ins, and non-payment, and crap and setbacks we have in the last several years, you would not be in business today- that's real.
Even with that low gross and my loan payments and equipment payment and all the stuff I bought for the auto during the year last year, I still had 20k in the shoebox at the end of it all- That's the bottom line. This forum and all of you knowledgeable and helpful people here have helped us do what we did in 08 and I can't tell you how much it has meant to me and Out Da Box.
We should be doing 250-300k with the capacity we have and the space- 2500sq/ft. Time will tell.

I like the direct marketing approach also. Thought about a direct mail campaign. The yard signs are generating tons of phone calls, not a lot of work yet. It is creating a lot of buzz. May have to go door to door samples in hand. I have to engage better potential customers who are willing to pay, gotta do it at all costs. Gotta love the struggle! I'm built for this!


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## FAR Clothing Co (Dec 5, 2007)

ImageIt said:
 

> That FAR clothing van doesn't tell me anything about what they are all about. How many calls does it generate and what percent are anything other than bored drivers trying to wave? Put a hot chick in the van and calls will triple!, but will the calls lead to business or just dates?
> 
> You know what would really help that van wrap? Process color!
> 
> fred




Actually it does... Clothing (for a rider)..... and even has the website.. 

anyways.... I have received lots of calls and then orders from it..On the back (full coverage) is my screen printing info also..

If you present an image.. they will come


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## catejohn (Jul 13, 2008)

Drue,
Those are great ideas, especially the parade idea. We have a local parade that is only $25 to participate. I think that I will have to do it this year. I also am in a BNI group and have gotten quite a bit of business. I also visit all of the other groups in the area and offer to sub for people so that I can get as much exposure as I can.
Thanks for the ideas.
Catie


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

We finished up Jan up 2.5 times from 08.... don't know how that happened- started off real dry. Half was from the Roland. Can't wait for March/April.
I want to apologize for my last post- took it a little personal about our relatively weak performance considering equipment resources- however we were up 2.5 times over '07. 
Can't wait to see how 09 turns out.
Has anybody read and studied the "E Myth"? Great book- recommended reading.
Thanks everybody for your input.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

out da box said:


> We finished up Jan up 2.5 times from 08....


do you think the increase is due to any changes you made in marketing?


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

One thing besides starting a retail brand, I am thinking of starting a separate design firm. Design jobs were rare in 08, but this Jan., we received about $1000 in design project sales. Quick and easy projects for us without labor. I think I might even quit printing all together and go designing full time. I'm just talking out loud. 

Out da box, do you offer designing?


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## socalvq (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks for posting this thread


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Guru, yep we do it all. Design, print, install, pack, ship....
I'm thinking about subbing out design work or finding somebody else to do it. Also thinking about billing art separately.
The increase this Jan was because of the versacamm, and the momemtum from last year, not so much in marketing differently. I got a huge check for future work in Dec, other than that Dec was terrible. I expect Feb to be slow as well. March will be much better. 
My father is a farmer, guess I am too. Farming is what moved civilization from nomadic tribes to established empires. Just my .02.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

TshirtGuru said:


> One thing besides starting a retail brand, I am thinking of starting a separate design firm.


we are also in the final stages of our retail brand, but what would be the benefit of starting a seperate design firm vs. just adding it to your list of services and making it more prominant in your markrting?

If you already have 60% of your sales coming from your website, your getting great traffic, why start over with a whole new site/company?


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

n.signia said:


> we are also in the final stages of our retail brand, but what would be the benefit of starting a seperate design firm vs. just adding it to your list of services and making it more prominant in your markrting?
> 
> If you already have 60% of your sales coming from your website, your getting great traffic, why start over with a whole new site/company?


Well, the problem is this...

I've noticed a lot of screen printing companies add this "design" service to their website, but it is rare that any of them have any true design experience. This has ruined the reputation that some screen printers are actually "legit" graphic designers. It's the same with if you search the craigslist ads for graphic designers, most of them don't know a pinch of salt of the concept of designing. Now-a-days people who get their hands on Illustrator call themselves designers. 

For instance, one of this months project came from a past customer of ours. As she claimed she was a designer, she showed us a package design she came up with. I honestly told her it was horrible (it truly was horrible). At first she was offended, but now we are charging her $350 for the new package cover. 

Now having worked in the design field before this printing venture, $350 is a steal. But I've realized that being mainly a printing company has capped off our potential for expanding in the design field. The general public have this preception that most printers aren't truly designers, so they shouldn't charge as much.

I feel if we were solely a design firm, we could be charging $1000+ for that same cover project. 

Another example, last month an out of state school contacted us for design and print work (she told us she was impressed with our designs and print work). They wanted an Affliction style design incorporating their logo, oversized print, for their sports team of 100 members. We said awesome, sounds fun. We gave her an estimate of $250 for the custom design work. She said, that $250 goes towards out print order right? I responded with no, that is our design rate and printing is charged separately. She paused and said, well the previous printer designed for $50, and that $50 went towards our print order. (This is one thing printers shouldn't do, but they do it cause they are desperate I suppose).

Another thing that I thought about is that, most customers who shop for printers are looking for bargains. I don't wish to bargain our design work. Having this separate entity will allow us to maximize our design potential and profits. (I think what we will do is, push design work more on our printing site, PLUS add a design firm site with another entity giving us double exposure).


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Good point about perceived value. I had a millionaire ex-building contractor come in to get 2 real estate signs... He would not pay my price insisting that I had 10 dollars in material and 30 dollars for my time was more than enough. Having problems getting people to respect and value my time- especially artwork.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

out da box said:


> Good point about perceived value. I had a millionaire ex-building contractor come in to get 2 real estate signs... He would not pay my price insisting that I had 10 dollars in material and 30 dollars for my time was more than enough. Having problems getting people to respect and value my time- especially artwork.


Yeah especially with artwork. People think artwork is worthless. Like they say, artists become millionaires after they die.

But there is a lot of money to be made in the design field. Especially with apparel.

Outdabox, so in your previous post you said you are thinking about billing artwork separate. Are you currently giving artwork for free?


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I try and roll it into the total cost of the job. It ends up costing me in time with smaller jobs. My customers never have print ready art.
We just finalized a deal with one of the local colleges. We spent over 16 hrs in customer service and art. Job was for only 2500 of which we should net 1500. Too much time.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> Farming brought civilization.
> 
> Hunters took swords to farmers to built empires.
> 
> ...


well, I think that both farming AND hunting should be applied in our field.....as both have had a part in building civilized life as we know it, in the aspect of empires, as well as business.

and henry, I think your right, and you can always link your new design site on your current site to take advantage of that high google rating for your area.


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## tdigital (Sep 14, 2008)

ImageIt said:


> _Just looking at the amazon description_ for e myth, i can see i would disagree. the flip side to that book might be something like accidental empire.
> 
> Books like e myth is for farmers.
> fred


Based on the amazon description?

Please read the book when you can. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, i'm sure plenty of successful business owners haven't read it and are still successful. As well respected as you are on the forum, it would be a travesty for some of our fellow members to read your words of wisdom and miss out on an absolute jewel of a book.

I read the book and applied it to my web design business as well as screen printing and it has helped tremendously. Everyone I've recommended it to has been absolutely ecstatic about it.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Hunters, farmers, slaves, books, vans, wraps.......
All I want to do is do 250k.
I don't mind farming, don't mind eating what I kill either.


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## ino (Jan 23, 2007)

Piety non of the bankers read that book.


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## tdigital (Sep 14, 2008)

ImageIt said:


> And if you got to 250k, would you your belly be full or would you next hunger for 500k?
> 
> fred


LOL. I think we all know the answer to that one


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Probably next milestone. The 250 is more than just a number, it's more of a indicator of our progress. Probably be just as happy with 150 or 175 if the other objectives are met. I'd be blessed to meet my equipment payments and other expenses and pay my charity. 
I gotta always remember to be thankful for what I have. Would like to hire some help and train them to be an extension of my vision. People need jobs.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

BTW Fred's point about developing a niche is powerful too. You never want to spread your efforts too thin. A concentrated specialty niche market that you develop your skills exceptionally can be a winning strategy. 
You can't be all things to all people.

I have found that keeping several revenue streams is really crucial in the building phase. Cash is king and cash flow year round can propel you to the next level.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

out da box said:


> I'm thinking about subbing out design work or finding somebody else to do it. Also thinking about billing art separately.


With the last print company I worked for, our graphic designer quit and I decided to sub the work out. My decision wasn't popular and the subbing didn't go without problems but on the whole it worked out for us. Subbing out requires a shift in thinking because you can't just run something over to the graphics person for a quick change or tweak things on the spot. If you have enough work to keep a graphics person busy then I recommend keeping it in house but if they are twiddling their thumbs then go ahead and outsource. You have to weigh the payroll expense against the income. The idea to bill it separately is right on.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

farming= networking, word of mouth, branding, wise investment in equipment, advertising. All fundamentals and CRUCIAL to success in any business. 

Hunting= target marketing, cold calls, in business visits, sales teams, niche markets. Also very important.


Practicing the fundamentals of farming and applying hunting to them will help move your company into a position where when that great oportunity that you sniffed out rears its head you are ready and able to pull the trigger.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Well said Drue. Gotta do both. Now who wants to do my artwork for me????


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

Fred, although I disagree with your marketing plan, I truly wish you success in your business.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Anybody track how many hours of customer service per 1000 gross your shop does? I'd be interested to know what ours is- bet it's high as hell.


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