# questions about scott fresener book



## FRACTURE (Aug 30, 2007)

I have heard so many people refer to the book how to print t-shirts for fun and profit. Now I have one that is the orginal version of this book. It seems to be a lil bit outdated to say the least... Do they have a newer version with more updated pricing and equipment or is everything the same...I just thought that was an interseting question...


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## Gunslinger (Aug 3, 2007)

While I can't speak for Scott, himself ... this question was posed in our T-Jet support forum. One of the support staff didn't think he will be tackling another book anytime soon, with marketing his new products. We didn't hear any talk of it, at the Long Beach show, either.


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## FRACTURE (Aug 30, 2007)

ok thanks..


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

FRACTURE said:


> I have heard so many people refer to the book how to print t-shirts for fun and profit. Now I have one that is the orginal version of this book. It seems to be a lil bit outdated to say the least... Do they have a newer version with more updated pricing and equipment or is everything the same...I just thought that was an interseting question...


Is it just the screen printing aspects of the business you are interested in? There is so much more out there now.


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## FRACTURE (Aug 30, 2007)

im intersted in anything that will take my time and create a new world for me.no matter what area that it is ...seems like screen printing would be a lil cheaper than other things on here... i would love to learn how to do the vinyl as well.. so im open to anything..really


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## megaloprintiac (Sep 8, 2007)

I believe the last publication of that was in 2003. If thats the copy you have then I dont think there has been a more recent release, although some book shops claim it was published in 2005 (and show the cover of the 2003 version bizarrely) I dont get that.

Another question to add to this debate, is the supplier list in there international, or are they all from the US? Im from England, UK so I was wondering if this book (as far as the supplier lists is concerned) would be any use for me?


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## FRACTURE (Aug 30, 2007)

ok honestly i think i have bought an original book...it said it was revised in 1980...sooooooo i think i need to buy a new version of it....so yea i think i have the older one..... it is even a yellowish tint to it


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## Gunslinger (Aug 3, 2007)

Yes, the copy I have was revised 2003, with copywrites up to 2005.

Anthony, yes there is a list for International suppliers (about 3 pages), I see 4 listed for the UK, alone.


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## IDINDUSTRIES (Sep 28, 2007)

On Ebay I got a 2005 version of the book. It was a good help to us. Not that it had lots of stuff we didn't know about but in some way it gives a good overall view on the "tshirt-business". I believe it is well worth it's money and whatever year it is from... the pricing of equipment is outdated, but then again when you want to start up something today, you will have to start getting quotes today... the book however gives you a good guideline on how to approach your business.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

Of course, you are buying a book on how to run a t-shirt business on a guy that failed to start a successful screen printing business himself. Those who can't do teach.


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## megaloprintiac (Sep 8, 2007)

Yeh the above point is valid, but I want this book based on techniques and advice about the artistic element of screenprinting from a guy who is widely considered one of the best faces representing the industry.
I already have a pretty strong business head, and I have confidence my design skills for garments will, as they do now, sell pretty well, and continue to build. 
I think the risk element in this business arises when you're solely basing your work on attracting corporatations or printing for bands etc., because you need a constant flow of people ordering in bulk, if they are relatively small runs potential clients may be put off by set-up charges, and with many competitors, as the new guy you may be faced to cut profit margins just to keep afloat.
Whereas If you print unique designs yourself as a fashion brand you are aiming on producing the same rough amounts of each design to justify the screen set-up but selling to people who are individually spending £15/$30 (much less than bulk orders) on a tshirt and this ensures a higher liklyhood of constant workflow.
Thats my take on it anyway as a small establishment, and therefore im prepared to buy this book because I think it can help me achieve my specific goal.


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## firemac2d (May 13, 2007)

Can anyone recommend anouther book other than this one? It seems this book is out of print and the T-Jet website even shows it as being "out of stock". Borders books shows they have it but when you request it, it has to be special ordered. Then they say they can't get it. I had gotten the older book out of the library a while back but I would perfer to own it. Of like I siad, can anyone recomend a book that is just as good if not better? Thanks!


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## snarley (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi Jimmy

There are other books on screen printing, I have several. I know you can get 
*"T-shirt Printers Survival Manual"* by Michael P. Shanley and Nita Coldiron on Amazon.com second printing 1996. There might be a newer version, I'm not sure.

It is similar to the Scott Fresener, book both are a little dated because of all the advances in technology and material products.

I hope this helps and Good Luck.

Bill M


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## snarley (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi Jimmy

I just did a quick search on Amazon. com under books on screen printing and there were 4159 listed and some are very current, not all of them are on subject but you could spend some time and find one that you might really like. Again, Good Luck

Bill M


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

Learn How To Screen Print with the T-Helper on-line screen printing guidebook

Here's one, I think you can get it on disk as well. Might not be a bad thing for new employees with no experience to check out.


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## chazel (Feb 15, 2008)

problem seem to either be finding it - or finding the correct print ( not the 80s version) 
still hailed as teh daddy regarding screen print far as i know though.
could always do like me and ship it from the states.. well that said depending if i buy the 1 off here , also shipping could end up clocking the price to more than amazon want etc. depending where your located on the globe


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

I think he more brought screen printing to the masses, I respect him for that. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for his book.

But screen printing is the oldest form of graphic/text reproduction, other than copying by hand, in the world.


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## chazel (Feb 15, 2008)

mk162 said:


> I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for his book.


Agreed as its the whole reason i came across this forum at that ! Iv just heard it recmmended by so many sources you know..


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

The Fresener book is a beginner's guide but it's enough to get you started. In the end there's no substitute for experience. If you really want to learn screenprinting, go to work for a good sized shop for a year. You'll get to make your mistakes on someone else's dime.


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## IDINDUSTRIES (Sep 28, 2007)

I couldn't have said it better. The book gives a good overview on all aspects of the tshirt printing business. Usefull hints, a good insight in the whole process,... however when you finish the book you are not a printer. It takes pratice and actual printing to learn the ropes. Working at some printshop always helps. You see how they do it, your learn the little tricks... however not many shops will let you print immediately. Most probably you start out putting shirts on, putting the shirts in the dryer, folding etc... So try to move as quick as possible to the squeeguee. That's where the printing starts...


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## chazel (Feb 15, 2008)

understood dudes , i mean id love to get an apreticeship or sumthin liek that , but time and health wont allow it- gotta do like i did with the studio and just keep at it, all the mistake tops will be my 'limited edition range' never have too many pjs!


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

badalou said:


> Screenprinting is great but you can do the same thing for a lot less if you went with plastisol transfers and let someone else do the work. The end results are the same.


If this statement was true, there would not be any screenprinters.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

snarley said:


> Hi Jimmy
> 
> There are other books on screen printing, I have several. I know you can get
> *"T-shirt Printers Survival Manual"* by Michael P. Shanley and Nita Coldiron on Amazon.com second printing 1996.


I have both books, and while the "Survival Guide" in some ways looks like something slapped together by some old hippie (and maybe they are), I found that the sections dealing with the business end of a screenprinting shop was actually much better and in more detail than anything in Scott Fresner's book. The Fresner book is a little better at a general overview of screenprinting shirts, if for no other reason, it has photos in color demonstrating many of the issues he discusses in the text. If you can get your hands on a copy of both, it's money well spent.


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## firemac2d (May 13, 2007)

tpitman said:


> I have both books, and while the "Survival Guide" in some ways looks like something slapped together by some old hippie (and maybe they are), I found that the sections dealing with the business end of a screenprinting shop was actually much better and in more detail than anything in Scott Fresner's book. The Fresner book is a little better at a general overview of screenprinting shirts, if for no other reason, it has photos in color demonstrating many of the issues he discusses in the text. If you can get your hands on a copy of both, it's money well spent.


 
Damn hippie's!! LOL!! Surprisingly B&N has that book listed. (Spiral bond, hmmm.) I'm gonna check with my library and see if I can't get that one from them. I had borrowed the Fresner book from the library and was impressed with it. Stupidly I didn't photo copy the cool forms that were included. Time sheets and other business forms. Figured if this is the best book on the market it would still be in print. Ehhh ...guess not. 

Anyone else have anouther book they love? Or is the Fresner book the holy grail of screen printing books? *LOL*


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

That book is soooooo outdated

Just learn to search the forums here, and you will find everything you ever needed to know in todays times to make it happen.


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## chazel (Feb 15, 2008)

kriscad said:


> That book is soooooo outdated
> 
> Just learn to search the forums here, and you will find everything you ever needed to know in todays times to make it happen.


some folk may preffer flickin though pages , like 2 say on a whole ill get more fact from a something publicised.
iv got scotts book on the way - im new to this , so ill give a nice unbias opinion - keyword being unbias- sayin that the decision to buy it was a bit bias! haha awell


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## firemac2d (May 13, 2007)

yyyyyyyyyeah anyway..... so the reason I'd perfer the book rather then this great forum has allot to do with actually holding a book. Untill I get a kindle (not gonna happen) Books are great. PICTURES are even better. Wish we (the forum) had something like Intructables, but just for this industry. 
IE: Screen Printing: Cheap, Dirty, and At Home - Instructables - DIY, How To, craft

This of cource is NOT a profesional example by any means but it would be nice if our forum had quick referance intructions writen by some experts. Impressions magazine came today and they had a nice one pager on reclaiming screens. I'd love the magazine much more if it wasn't so bias to embroidery (no offence.)

.....anyway I love stuff on paper better is all I'm saying.


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

chazel said:


> yeh well when boards get smeared in **** ,some folk may preffer flickin though pages , like 2 say on a whole ill get more fact from a something publicised compared to skewed views of some rampant net nerd....
> iv got scotts book on the way - im new to this , so ill give a nice unbias opinion - keyword being unbias- sayin that the decision to buy it was a bit bias! haha awell


sounds like you got your feelings hurt... 

but all the power to you... read that book and I wish you the most success - let's see where your at 5 years from now. Make sure to come back and let us know.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

firemac2d said:


> Figured if this is the best book on the market it would still be in print. Ehhh ...guess not.


Scott seems to have hitched his wagon to the Direct-to-Garment printing star. I wouldn't be surprised if he never republished the book again, which is a shame, because there is still a lot of interest in screenprinting textiles, often by people who got bit by the "push-button" shirt decorating bug and bought a DTG printer, then found out that they're maintenance-intensive, and you actually have to have good art to make those stunning t-shirts they always display at the trade shows.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

The nice thing about a book is that the information is presented in a linear and logical fashion. Where as trying to learn from scratch by searching the forum is going to get you in trouble since you won't have any way to objectively evaluate the information you get. You also won't know what to search for until you make a mistake. You will be far ahead of the game to read the book and then start using information from the forums as you begin experimenting. There is a fairly inexpensive copy on ebay right now that is listed poorly (neither the title nor the author are anywhere in the auction title or description) so it probably won't get many bids. It'll sell for a fraction of what I paid for my copy. (seller is Mucho2)


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I was told by several people that I should do a book on the subject of the tee garment transfer business. I also felt that things should be in some type of an order. The forum gives you tons of info and for some using the search feature seems to be out of their area of learning. I thought about doing an ebook as one company suggested but I thought that also would be a big job. So I put up the Heat Press Transfer Network in hopes that would help some of the new people. It is open for change and contributions from the readers so it is not a closed book. I suffer from a very poor eduction background and I am partially deaf which did not help and for a long period in my life went unnoticed. Some of it shows in my writing style but thanks to a lot of you who have sent me corrections it keeps going. I am looking for success stories for the site so feel free to send me some. Just keep it short. Lou


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

wormil said:


> The nice thing about a book is that the information is presented in a linear and logical fashion. Where as trying to learn from scratch by searching the forum is going to get you in trouble since you won't have any way to objectively evaluate the information you get. You also won't know what to search for until you make a mistake. You will be far ahead of the game to read the book and then start using information from the forums as you begin experimenting.


Well said. Once you've got a handle on the basics, then, you'll not be as confused by some of the different approaches that contributors to these forums take in order to solve the same problem. That's one of the great things about the forums . . . there's often more than one way to skin a cat and most participants are happy to share their take on workarounds. When you've got the basics down, then you've got an orientation from which to work, and, maybe as important, better equipped to ask questions. I've seen questions posted by people who obviously had no idea what screenprinting involved, and whose question led to answers that probably did nothing to really help them, and as you pointed out, were likely to get them into trouble.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

ST Media (publishers of Screenprinting Magazine) still show HTPTSFFAP on their web site.

ST Bookstore


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I just found out that my Tee square It was just placed on Scott's website as a new product for the industry..


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## Mishelle (Apr 9, 2008)

tpitman said:


> Scott seems to have hitched his wagon to the Direct-to-Garment printing star. I wouldn't be surprised if he never republished the book again, which is a shame, because there is still a lot of interest in screenprinting textiles, often by people who got bit by the "push-button" shirt decorating bug and bought a DTG printer, then found out that they're maintenance-intensive, and you actually have to have good art to make those stunning t-shirts they always display at the trade shows.


Interesting, as I have a NEW revised 2008 version on my desk.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

That's good news. I had read awhile back where people had tried to find a copy and none were available. It's probably the best single resource available to people getting into screenprinting.


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## EasyTeesK (Nov 28, 2007)

I bought mine at Dick Blick Art Supply in St. Louis for $40. They had at least 2 at the time. They probably still have at least 1 or 2.


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## buckcreek (Aug 13, 2007)

I enjoy working with the vinyl both for signs and for shirts. All you need is a cutter and a heat press and you can do all kinds of things. It's great when you just want to do one shirt or a small amount. I also have a cap press and I press the vinyl on the caps and they look great. Another good thing is you have so many choices of colors and textures of vinyl. You can also put differ colors together to make a design. I used 5 different colors to do an eagle in color on a tablecloth for a school. It was not easy but it turned out really good.


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## scrible1980 (Feb 21, 2008)

i've only been on this forum for a month or 2, but i think that it is probably better than any book you'll find. if you have a query, just post it up and 9 times out of 10 someone will come back with an answer


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

That book is well worth the money. It doesn't give you the day-in, day-out details and problem solutions that you'll find on this and other forums, but it gives an excellent overview of the t-shirt printing process so you have some kind of an idea of what to look for in equipment, and what kind of questions to ask when you get stuck. There are plans for a homemade press that would get you printing on a shirt on the cheap, and an exposure unit, and you have to start somewhere. In spite of the other business train-wrecks Scott Fresner may have tumbled headlong into, that book was not one of them.

The current forums at screenprinters.net (Scott Fresner's old forums) have gone to hell, and most of the people who had a brain in there head have gone over to "screen printers open forum" (do a google search). The level of expertise there and willingness to help is unmatched anywhere. I cannot begin to calculate the education I've received from those folks over the past 5 years. It's a freewheeling site, and some content might offend some, but worth monitoring.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: questions about scott fresener book*

I personally recommend Scott & Pat's book and think it is better than experience. Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 

It is a beginner book for textile screen printers, and belongs at the top of anyone's list of textile screen printing books.

Buy the book directly from Pat Fresener.
How To Publishing - How To Publishing


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

This book will help you emulate the Freseners. Three times bankrupt. How to cheat and steal for fun and profit while printing marginal t-shirts. Even Scott gave up on screen printing in the end because he was not good enough at it.
And let us not forget Fast Films the biggest separation joke of the decade - thanks Scott - you have done so much to this industry.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

vetscreener said:


> This book will help you emulate the Freseners. Three times bankrupt. How to cheat and steal for fun and profit while printing marginal t-shirts. Even Scott gave up on screen printing in the end because he was not good enough at it.
> And let us not forget Fast Films the biggest separation joke of the decade - thanks Scott - you have done so much to this industry.


I'm curious. Have you read the book?


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

I have 4 copies - it's just one big shill.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

You've got 4 copies of a book that you seem to be saying is no good, by an author you've spent most of your time on this forum bad-mouthing?

Seems more like a personal vendetta, than an objective opinion. Especially given so many experienced industry people that recommend it.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

vetscreener said:


> This book will help you emulate the Freseners. Three times bankrupt. How to cheat and steal for fun and profit while printing marginal t-shirts. Even Scott gave up on screen printing in the end because he was not good enough at it.
> And let us not forget Fast Films the biggest separation joke of the decade - thanks Scott - you have done so much to this industry.


I learned a lot of the basics from the book. It's not as good as learning hands on from a professional, but it's definitely better than nothing. And it has nothing to do with your view of his business practices. It's the best book in the industry for it's intended purpose. It's pretty silly to bash this book just because his name's on it, and you obviously have your problems with him.


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

Each copy came from 4 different shops that went under - I purchased the assets including the books. How can you defend a man who has done so much to hurt the screen biz - have you read the posts from people who lost deposits put down on Fast t-jets or people who were unable to get refunds for machines that never worked? The only reason people recommend this book is because it is the only one about t-shirt printing. Personal vendetta - hardly - but why steer people towards this completely mediocre book and tell them they can learn all about the business. Scott never ran a successful t-shirt business and that is a fact. How can anyone think he is a hero? You people amaze me - see what happens to him if he ever tries to show his face at another ISS show.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Maybe you don't read too well, but I haven't defended anyone, and never called anyone a hero.

I simply asked you about the book. You said you have 4 copies, but you haven't said if you've read any of them, which was my original question.

And yes, vendetta. Again, you've got 22 posts, and about 20 of them are bad-mouthing Fressner and/or his products.

I don't know Scott Fressner, never read any of his books, and don't own a DTG printer. But, I'm certainly leery of anyone that seemingly has so much spite for a person, as it seems you do. Especially, someone that claims to have so much success/experience in the industry, but spends so much of their time talking about how bad someone else is and someone else's choices for how they run their business.


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

Am I the only one "badmouthing" Scott Fresener?
You are going to be very leery when you check.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

No, you're not the only one.

But you're the only one it seems that has 99% of their posts bad-mouthing him. It seems as though you're only here to bad-mouth him. That's what I'm leery of.

Another difference is that while others seem to be able to separate the different things involving Fressner, you seem to have a very personal problem with him. Hence, the 99% of your posts that bad-mouth him.

Again, I've seen people dog Fressner and US Screen, and still be able to admit that the book is still a pretty good book. I don't know. Like I said, I haven't read the book. (*and you haven't said if you've read it either, although you talk about how bad it is.*) But, you seem to be of the opinion that everything he's ever done is garbage.

So, have you read any of the 4 copies you have?


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## o rangutang (Mar 28, 2009)

i bought fresners T-shirt graphics for photoshop and got very little bang for my buck. it is a 4 dvd set. the dvd's would not play correctly, perhaps not his fault and they were replaced by his agent in "oz". 3 of those discs were about the actions of the various tools on the toolbars, which you could read in any photoshop book or tutorial. it finally got down to some nitty grittys in the 4th disc. i considered the purchase a majority waste of my AU$250 and i would never buy anything of his again.


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

Yes. I have read the book and I can tell anyone who wants to get into the business that this book is no help.
I have been printing and designing t-shirts for more than 3 decades and over 10 million shirts have my ink on them. I think it is fair to say that since Fresener only printed shirts for about 4 years before both his t-shirt shops folded, I have about 10 times the experience he does. I can also paint and draw - Scott can not.
Almost everything the USscreen sold was bogus inferior crap - they really hurt a great many people trying to get a shop going.
I think a better book about Screen Printing is Screenprinting Today
by Andy MacDougall. At least this book is modern. Scott Fresener is stuck in the 70's.
Is this forum here to help, or drive newbies down the road to Ruin with Scott?


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## ambitious (Oct 29, 2007)

vetscreener said:


> Yes. I have read the book and I can tell anyone who wants to get into the business that this book is no help.
> I have been printing and designing t-shirts for more than 3 decades and over 10 million shirts have my ink on them. I think it is fair to say that since Fresener only printed shirts for about 4 years before both his t-shirt shops folded, I have about 10 times the experience he does. I can also paint and draw - Scott can not.
> Almost everything the USscreen sold was bogus inferior crap - they really hurt a great many people trying to get a shop going.
> I think a better book about Screen Printing is Screenprinting Today
> ...


You know it really does sound like you do have a personal problem with him...



> Is this forum here to help, or drive newbies down the road to Ruin with Scott?


Obviously your not helping much by being negative about his stuff. 

I have his book and im not ruined, he has great ideas and his book IS very informative for us newbies. 

I still don't understand why in the hell do you have 4 books of somebody that YOU think is no good.

I have only 1 book and happy as hell with it... in fact just the 1 color press plans helped a bunch.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

vetscreener said:


> Is this forum here to help, or drive newbies down the road to Ruin with Scott?


*
What is clear to me is that you are trying to import drama from another forum into this forum. *

As for the book, it is what it is. There is a difference between knowing how to drag a squeegee and knowing how to run a business. I have always said and will always say that the proper way to learn screenprinting is in a shop, preferably a good sized shop. But books and videos are fine for hobbyists.

Now that you've said your peace, perhaps you can demonstrate that you're here for something other than carrying out a personal vendetta and contribute your experience to some other discussions.


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

I have never been robbed by Fresener - His bad reputation speaks for itself, so there is no Vendetta - what is with you people are you reading my posts?

If I had a vendetta I would have founded Fast t-jets suck.

That said, Wormil - you are right, I will share what I have learned with the other users on the forum.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some points on what goes wrong for most shops and how to go right.

1/ If you want to run a successful t-shirt shop you must have artwork. If you are not artistic, then get someone who is to design your shirts. Do not let customers bring you artwork, if you do this you will fail in this economy.

2/ If you go to trade shows, remember that most booths are manned by failed screen printers. The only real way to learn is to dive in. You will make mistakes, it is part of the business. You will laugh - you will cry.

3/ Screen printing is not as hard as people tell you, good art and good separations rule the day tight mesh good ink and a sharp squeegee will watch your back. Half tones are harder to print than square dots (index).

4/ Do not take orders for 15 shirts, there is unlimited demand for this and no profits no matter how you print the shirts. Do the math - Time and overhead count.

5/ The industry Gurus like Fresener are all shilling for themselves or other suppliers, they are out to line their pockets. Guru is short for failed screen printer.

6/ Don't use wood frames if you are trying to print high end images. They will let your mesh sag and your profits too.

7/ Laser printers make lousy film.

8/ Don't buy a DTG machine thinking that you are stepping into the screen printing business - they don't work well and will frustrate you while you learn nothing about screen printing.

9/ Screen printing is hard work and requires a great deal of public relations - if you are shy and lazy, do not bother.

10/ Invest in good equipment - start out with manual presses but plan for an automatic. A 5 foot dryer will not cut it in the long run - you are only as fast as your slowest piece of equipment. Used equipment is OK.

11/ It is ok to say "no" to a customer. If you take on something that is beyond your ability it will cost you big time. Job out complex designs to a printer with a big auto. But always do your own film and separations. Do not use Corel draw.

12/ Don't let your employees smoke dope and listen to Led Zeplin while they work. Pay your workers well - this is hard work


That is a start.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

*Re: questions about scott fresener book*



RichardGreaves said:


> Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.


If that's the case, I'm brimming with experience!


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

I would have to agree with everything you say, and yes, the T-Jets suck, and were what ultimately brought Fresner down. I know someone that owned one, and they had nothing but trouble with it, but the one thing they lacked most was any art talent or experience, and knowledge of photoshop. They took it in the shorts when they unloaded it just before USSPI went under. I lost money on a FastRIP combo, but primarily due to the clogging issues of the Epson printer and a fried printhead. It was unreliable. Sold the software, tossed the bulk system and gave the printer away. Regarding the book, however, if you read half of the posts on these forums, there are a ton of people champing at the bit to open a screenprinting business, wanting to know what kind of "paint" to buy, and whether the brand new $299 press they saw on Ebay will allow them to register and print full color jobs, curing them with a heat gun from Lowe's, and wondering why their Speedball emulsion isn't washing out correctly when they held a lightbulb with a pie pan reflector to it for 10 minutes, then went outside in broad daylight to develop. What the book will do is give them a very basic understanding of the process, the terms used, and an idea of what to look for or ask about in the way of equipment. It didn't prevent me from buying a brand new press with crappy micros, and it certainly didn't teach me how to print simulated process with any success. I learned those lessons the hard way. But when I went to shows, or lurked on Scott's forums, I at least had a pretty good idea of what people were talking about.
Was Scott a shill? Hell, yeah, but so is everyone selling equipment, ink, shirts, and whatever. His biggest blunder was hyping the "push-button" concept of printing, via the T-Jet, or push-button high end separations via Fast-Films, neither of which was as simple as he made them sound.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I must say I agree with everything vetscreener and tpitman have typed. It's good to know there are others that have negative views on the Fresner clan and their products. These statements will probably be deleted anyway, but at least I read them first.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> These statements will probably be deleted anyway, but at least I read them first.


Deleting a post is a last resort. It'd be much easier if people just acted professionally and didn't carry out personal vendettas in threads.

Why make every post about someone sucking or some machine sucking. When is the time to move on and help people who are still in business and share helpful information? That's what these forums are about. Not about bashing one company over and over and over again. This is a _friendly_ discussion forum for getting and sharing helpful t-shirt information.

There are so many other topics here that people could contribute positively to. Why stay focused on the negative?


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

Rodney,

this is no personal vendetta, the Freseners have done serious harm to many newbies over decades. Someone has to speak up now that they are gone, before new dealers start selling the same crap that usscreen used to.
All is not sweetness and light in the USA - with the collapse of the financial system our industry is on the chopping block. T-shirts are something that people don't absolutely need in tough times. We have much fewer new start ups succeeding and the business is shrinking fast. The DTG thing is making it even worse - have you noticed how many of those machines are for sale used? Surely it is a positive thing to inform new comers about what it really takes to succeed? A healthy t-shirt industry is good for all of us.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I think negative posts about a product or company are just as helpful, if not more helpful than positive ones. If nobody here ever read a negative word about speedball products then what do you think would happen? I hate that everyone has to be so PC about everything. If something doesn't perform as well as another product or as it was advertised, WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT. That is how we have evolved to this stage of technology in our industry, survival of the fitest. Why is that a problem Rodney? I know you struggle with what is proper to post but nobody is saying anything that can't be subjectively proven. I don't like to hurt people's feelings but I would rather tell someone how it really is than telling them what they want to hear and hurting them financially or business wise. I browse these forums every day and I don't read that much negativity so I don't think the end user here sees near as much as you do, that is probably why you think there is too much on those topics.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

I agree that negative posts can be just as helpful. But, when 1 negative post turns into a continuous rant, then it begins to become overkill.

How much can you say that someone/something sucks before you just start to look foolish?

Differing opinions are good for healthy discussions, but bashing someone just because you don't like them is a completely different matter.

Personally, when I see someone join a forum and almost every single one of their posts is a negative rant about someone/something, then I take that with a grain of salt. Because it's not just someone sharing an opinion. Making almost all of your posts negative about person/company is obviously personal. I'm more interested in more objective opinions.

I pay more attention to someone that posts their opinion, then moves on to something else, than someone that seems like they've devoted their life to bad-mouthing a person/company.


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

Alan802,

Exactly right.

Which also reminds me to tell newbies that our industry magazines are completely controlled by the advertisers. You will never see a reasonable comparison between 2 competing products with a conclusion as to which is better. Both companies pay for adds - so the conclusion will be that both products are great. This is not about hurting someone's feelings - Scott Fresener is gone - he is out - no more feelings no more company to bad mouth. 
The t-shirt Forum that Fresener ran was mainly posted with shill for Fast this and Fast that by people who actually worked for Scott and pretended to be just helpful screen printers.

If everybody here wants to just be positive and pretend every product in our industry is great - go ahead - what a useless way to help people.
If you bad mouth any product that buys adds on this site - your posts will be deleted. This is the American way - deceit rules - land of the red white and broke.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> I agree that negative posts can be just as helpful. But, when 1 negative post turns into a continuous rant, then it begins to become overkill.
> 
> How much can you say that someone/something sucks before you just start to look foolish?
> 
> ...





> . If something doesn't perform as well as another product or as it was advertised, WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT. That is how we have evolved to this stage of technology in our industry, survival of the fitest. Why is that a problem Rodney?


It's not a problem at all. And if you truly look through the forum, you'll see both positive and negative posts about a wide variety of companies.

I'm not sure why you think it would be a problem.

The issue I'm talking about is when things go *too far*. 

To clarify. There is NO problem with people sharing _honest_ reviews/experiences/opinions (negative or positive) about a company. Sharing honest information helps everyone.

There IS a problem when it gets taken too far and when the majority of the person's posts are just rants about one company. When a person feels the need to ONLY spread negativity about a company or find any positive posts about a company so they can post something negative about them.

It's explained pretty well in our forum guidelines (I'll add more emphasis):



> *No Company Bashing*
> 
> 
> Please do not use the forums to bash or trash another t-shirt company. If you have an issue or complaint with a particular company, please direct it to that company's customer service channels. Although we may provide forums for discussing a particular company's products or services, we are not to be considered the official support forums for that company. Posts like "company X sucks" or "company Y's products are cheap" or "company Z's customer service is rude" may be edited or removed. You may of course respond *truthfully* to other member's questions about a company's products or services, however, please do so in a professional manner. *Sharing your experiences with different vendors and businesses (both good and bad) can be very helpful to others who are researching who to do business with. We just ask that your posts be kept professional and on topic.* _If you are in a competing business, please refrain from posting negative comments, accusations or assumptions about other businesses as this presents a conflict of interest_ (example: if you work for Coke, you probably shouldn't be posting negative things about Pepsi...well, you get the idea ).


So just so we're super clear. It's not about somebody posting something that happens to be negative at all. 

It's about crossing the line and making your whole goal for posting to badmouth another company. 

Why spend _all_ your time that way? Why not share your wealth of experience helping others, offering tips, help answering questions where people need an expert opinion?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> If you bad mouth any product that buys adds on this site - your posts will be deleted. This is the American way - deceit rules - land of the red white and broke.


Actually, that is a flat out lie. Please don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

Really, take some time to _actually look around_ before you write (instead of making assumptions). As I said, there are negative and positive posts about all types of companies here. Even ones that advertise here.

But when a post crosses the line into a rant/bash, then it's possible we may remove the post. Whether or not the company advertises here or not.


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## ggraphics (Nov 20, 2008)

Just to jump in on the love I am reading here, I am skeptical about someone who bashes, yes bashes, someone and then toots his own horn. I also will disagree with your middle part of #8. They can work well. We've had a brother GT-541 for 18 months - thousands of prints with very little maintenance. No, it doesn't teach you about screen printing, but it offers my customers something I couldn't/wouldn't do before. I also disagree with the end of your #11. We have only used corel. We may not have printed the millions of shirts you have (we're more in the high hundreds of thousands), but corel has worked well for us - and I bet there are others that have only used corel and are successful, but probably not as successful as...


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I think my post history speaks for itself. I have been more than helpful on a variety of topics and have always tried to help any way I can, and will continue to do so. 

I understand your reasoning and respect your opinions and will try my best to abide by the rules. Lets get back to helping the newbies.


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## ggraphics (Nov 20, 2008)

I tried to purchase something from company A and sent them a check but never got any product. Calls went unanswered, and there appears to be no resolution in sight. I would beware of company A.

Company A will take your money just so they can line their pockets. I hope they get what they deserve. Their products are junk.

Can you tell a difference in these 2 comments? To have a negative comment is one thing, but I think we all know what bashing is. Our society has somewhere along the way decided it is ok to act that way. Look at youth sports. This may get removed. Sorry Rodney, this is off-topic - not about Fresner's book.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

alan802 said:


> I think my post history speaks for itself. I have been more than helpful on a variety of topics and have always tried to help any way I can, and will continue to do so.
> 
> I understand your reasoning and respect your opinions and will try my best to abide by the rules. Lets get back to helping the newbies.


Hi Alan, I definitely wasn't referring to you in my posts. 

I just wanted to make sure I explained things clearly so people reading understand that there's no issue with people being honest here. 



> Lets get back to helping the newbies.


And helping _each other_  I think both people that are new and people that have been in the industry for a while can pick up good stuff here.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

ggraphics said:


> I tried to purchase something from company A and sent them a check but never got any product. Calls went unanswered, and there appears to be no resolution in sight. I would beware of company A.
> 
> Company A will take your money just so they can line their pockets. I hope they get what they deserve. Their products are junk.
> 
> Can you tell a difference in these 2 comments? To have a negative comment is one thing, but I think we all know what bashing is. Our society has somewhere along the way decided it is ok to act that way. Look at youth sports. This may get removed. Sorry Rodney, this is off-topic - not about Fresner's book.


No worries, I'm guilty of continuing the off topic stuff in this thread too. 

Sometimes, it's good to clarify things. I think your two examples help to demonstrate the difference.


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## ggraphics (Nov 20, 2008)

Here is the real question vetscreener. Did you get anything out of the book - yes or no answer. If yes, was it useful to _you _- yes or no answer. If yes, then why? If no, then why not? Could it be that when you read the book you had already printed millions of shirts and were an accomplished, knowledgable screen printer? For someone just jumping in the game, there could be something to learn. Will the book ink their screens - probably not, but a newbie probably will pick something useful out of it.


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## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

Well, I did read the book many years back when I saw it in the art school library. I remember one section on how to build your own exposure unit that was pretty elementary. The newer book to me is just a bunch of adds and now that I am knowledgeable about how production screen printing works, I would say the book does not have much info. If you are new and don't have a clue you can get the basics here, but a great book this is not.
Scott just did not have the experience to know what to do.

It comes down to amateur or pro - do you want a hobby or a business?

Scott's book will teach you how to run a hobby shop. But if you bought Fast ink and it plugged your printer - or Fast Rip that leaves lines in your film or a how to video that did not play, then any positives would be negated.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

ggraphics said:


> I tried to purchase something from company A and sent them a check but never got any product. Calls went unanswered, and there appears to be no resolution in sight. I would beware of company A.
> 
> Company A will take your money just so they can line their pockets. I hope they get what they deserve. Their products are junk.
> 
> Can you tell a difference in these 2 comments? To have a negative comment is one thing, but I think we all know what bashing is. Our society has somewhere along the way decided it is ok to act that way. Look at youth sports. This may get removed. Sorry Rodney, this is off-topic - not about Fresner's book.


Maybe a little off-topic, but definitely worth noting.

It's an excellent example of the difference between giving a negative review/opinion, and bashing.

The problem is that some of us can tell the difference and know that your first example is the way it should be done here on the forums, and others don't think there is anything wrong with the second example, which is against the forum's guidelines.

Again, thanks for the post. It was quite helpful!


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