# First ceramic tile and trouble



## Jason's_Place (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey I printed my first tile last night and it came out faded looking. I bought the tiles from a guy that use to do due sub but I don't know what brand it is so that I could look it up from the manufacturer for troubleshooting. I printed it face down in felt for 8 minutes. I do not have the green pad. Before I ruin what small amount of tile I have playing with pressures and times I was trying to look here first but I haven't found anything. Thanks in advance!


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

What else have you sublimated? Are other things coming out okay, or just the tiles? 

Tiles don't make good contact with the heat platen because of the raised nubs on the back. The green pad conforms into the shape of the tile, and helps conduct the heat even across its surface. You really should have the pad, or else in a pinch a couple of layers of wool fabric to help even out the heat.

Assuming this is a 4" tile, 6-8 minutes upside down is about right for most of the brands. I'd keep with the 400 degrees and those times, use heavy pressure, and look at other things as the cause. Maybe get a known good sample tile to make sure it's not the unknown stock you bought.


----------



## Jason's_Place (Nov 1, 2009)

It was a 6x6 and I was under the impression I didn't need it to do tiles but I will be ordering one. How much pressure? When I was done pressing there was an indention in the felt maybe half the thickness. I presses several different substrates last night. , metal, frp , and they all turned out great. That was just the first time for tile. Thanks!


----------



## bratdawg (Jul 17, 2012)

Sounds like the tile if other substrates are printing fine. 8 minutes should work fine for most 6" tiles.

It could possibly be an old tile with one of the softer coatings. If so you may need to lower your time or temp. 

A Thermal pad will indeed help spread the heat evenly as well as help cushion it but it doesn't necessarily have to be on top of the tile. You can also press upside down into the pad which will retain heat between pressings. If so be sure to cover the tiles with at least paper on top to avoid scratching the upper platen.


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Jason's_Place said:


> Hey I printed my first tile last night and it came out faded looking. I bought the tiles from a guy that use to do due sub but I don't know what brand it is so that I could look it up from the manufacturer for troubleshooting. I printed it face down in felt for 8 minutes. I do not have the green pad. Before I ruin what small amount of tile I have playing with pressures and times I was trying to look here first but I haven't found anything. Thanks in advance!


I do mainly ceramic tiles and murals.

Be careful about using high pressure, you can crack your tiles. What happens is the tile will look good when it is removed from the press then during cool down you may see a fracture on the top side, they won't necessarily crack in pieces, but for sure you can get fractures.

All the tiles I have used you just need enough pressure to allow for complete conformity into the bevels, nothing more, nothing less.

In your case it would seem if you are at 400 degs. and a dwell of 8 minutes that is fine for 4 or 6 inch tiles. Maybe too much, but for now keep at 8 minutes.

You should only increase your pressure _slightly_ until you get good results.

Coatings vary and can effect the pressure required.

Of course I am assuming you have tried other items and there are no issues with your transfers?

I use Nomex felt, it conforms better to the tile bevel.

I never use those green pads, many can leave a slight texture imprint on the surface and if used on the other side of the tile to protect the heat platen it just insulates heat from the substrate. 

I use a DK20 16 x 20 digital swing-away from GK Knight

My sandwich from the lower platen to the heater platen.

Lower heat press pad
Nomex felt pad
Transfer - image side up
Tile - print side down
A couple of plain papers.
Heating platen

Some may use some plain paper in between the nomex felt pad and the transfer, my transfer paper resists any residual dye that may be on the nomex, yours may not.

If you haven't checked your press for temp accuracy, suggest that you do so.


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

On the green pads: they contain tiny grains of ceramic, which is the medium that retains and transfers the heat. They are specifically made for thermal transfer, and used in aircraft, automotive, and industrial settings. That's why they are so expensive. They are *not* just silicone pads colored green. 

I also wouldn't use them for top-up transfers, but I don't like doing tiles that way because then the paper might not conform as well at the edges, and you don't know until it's too late. I think it requires more experience to get these right when face up without the pad, so I like to recommend it to those just starting with ceramics and glass.

I'm thinking if these have a softer coating less time might be useful. I'd do a test at maybe 5 minutes on one half of the tile. Let cool and memorize what it looks like. Add maybe 90 to 120 seconds and try the other half. Check the second test strip. If its lighter it means you need to reduce the time, not increase it.


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Jason's_Place said:


> How much pressure? When I was done pressing there was an indention in the felt maybe half the thickness.


If you don't use a green pad you have to rely on cloth or paper and the uneven contact from the heating platen, which is why I suggested "heavy." I don't mean super heavy, maybe just a bit more than medium. 

Mike makes an excellent point about cracking the tiles. When I use a green pad -- always -- I use medium-light pressure, because even with that there is complete area contact between the platen and the tile. As Mike sez, start with less pressure and then add incrementally.

The high-end tiles like Bison don't seem to crack as much even with more pressure. I got some "economy" tiles once and they cracked just by looking at them... (Well not really, but they cracked easily.)

One last thing: If you're using a Nomex or similar felt, pre-heat the thing a full minute or more, on both sides, to drive out all the excess moisture. Do this each new session. These things pick up a lot of moisture from the air, and you don't want the thing "sweating" during the first half of your transfer. I live in a semi-arid area with only modest humidity, and after the first pre-heat I have to remove the pad and wipe off the teflon on the bottom platen with a paper towel!


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> If you don't use a green pad you have to rely on cloth or paper and the uneven contact from the heating platen, which is why I suggested "heavy." I don't mean super heavy, maybe just a bit more than medium.
> 
> Mike makes an excellent point about cracking the tiles. When I use a green pad -- always -- I use medium-light pressure, because even with that there is complete area contact between the platen and the tile. As Mike sez, start with less pressure and then add incrementally.
> 
> ...


After thousands of tiles I have never seen uneven heating nor the need for heavy pressure by not using the green pad you describe.

I only use those green pads special cut for ceramic ornaments as there is a recess area otherwise the transfer there is no contact.

I didn't mean that the green pad was a complete insulator, but anytime you put something in between the heating platen and a substrate it represents additional mass which takes either more energy to transfer heat for the same dwell or more dwell time at the same temp. 

While tiles don't have a smooth back they are thick enough that when the heat travels thru the tile and you have sufficient dwell then the print surface is evenly saturated with heat.

But everyone does what works for them.


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Jason's_Place said:


> It was a 6x6 and I was under the impression I didn't need it to do tiles but I will be ordering one. How much pressure? When I was done pressing there was an indention in the felt maybe half the thickness. I presses several different substrates last night. , metal, frp , and they all turned out great. That was just the first time for tile. Thanks!


This is what I use, it is specific for tiles. For most that do a lot of tiles this is considered the best practice and what is used. It's not cheap either but lasts longer than other felt, and the thickness is correct.

RMN-1/2NOM1214 : 1/2" x 12 x 14 White Nomex/Heat Felt : Geo Knight & Co Inc

This is also what Bison tiles use in their production, besides selling blank tiles they have a mural business as well.

http://www.bisoncoating.com/Articles.asp?ID=147

"On our heat presses, we have a layer of 1/2” Nomex high temperature felt on the lower platen. When pressure is applied, the tile is pressed down into the felt and wraps the image around the tile. The felt also helps press the transfer into uneven areas of the tile. This is especially helpful when imaging a rough surface like tumbled stone. Nomex felt come in several sizes and thickness. They are available through Geo Knight & Co"


----------

