# Ripped Off By Printing Company, What To Do?



## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

I placed an order with a company that is near the San Diego area, I don't want to release the name right now but will if they don't respond. I sent them $710 for 250 custom printed gold foil polymailers and 50 Black American Apparel shirts printed with 2 colors. I ordered on the 7th of December, it is now the 12th of January. His initial email to me said it would be done in a week max. Then comes the delay says the Friday at the latest. Since then he has been saying the place has been busy and my order somehow got put on standby. I have sent him 5 emails since the 6th of January up until today and I have not received a single response. I was able to find all of their information such as address, phone number name and all that information should I need to have a lawyer send them something. I have filed a Paypal dispute around an hour ago, is there anything else I should do? What should I be prepared for in the event that I need to file a lawsuit? I used this company because someone else had a good experience with them and the product was great.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

How did you send the payment?? Check, PayPal??


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

dazzabling said:


> How did you send the payment?? Check, PayPal??


I sent the payment via Paypal, have already filed a dispute. I just saw that they made a post on Twitter 2 hours ago so it isn't like they aren't online, they are straight ignoring me.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

KabirC said:


> I have filed a Paypal dispute around an hour ago, is there anything else I should do? What should I be prepared for in the event that I need to file a lawsuit? I used this company because someone else had a good experience with them and the product was great.


Paypal should help you with everything, get a timeline together starting from the the first day of the order and your responses, phone calls, and all communication in a timeline format

Download and save every email in a .pdf format, dating each one and compress the file and PayPal will tell you where to send it. 

The faster you send this the faster you will get a response. You need to make sure you are "seller eligible" meaning you verified all your accounts and addresses.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

dazzabling said:


> Paypal should help you with everything, get a timeline together starting from the the first day of the order and your responses, phone calls, and all communication in a timeline format
> 
> Download and save every email in a .pdf format, dating each one and compress the file and PayPal will tell you where to send it.
> 
> The faster you send this the faster you will get a response. You need to make sure you are "seller eligible" meaning you verified all your accounts and addresses.


I am downloading the files right now, posted the email logs in there earlier. I have verified everything so I should be "seller eligible".


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

KabirC said:


> I sent the payment via Paypal, have already filed a dispute. I just saw that they made a post on Twitter 2 hours ago so it isn't like they aren't online, they are straight ignoring me.


Good add that information too in the time line, send the invoice and make sure its for a non-delivery dispute. 

You may just have to upload the documentation in your PayPal account under disputes, or you may be emailed here soon with directions on what you need to do


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

dazzabling said:


> Good add that information too in the time line, send the invoice and make sure its for a non-delivery dispute.
> 
> You may just have to upload the documentation in your PayPal account under disputes, or you may be emailed here soon with directions on what you need to do


Put it as item not delivered, just uploaded the PDF.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

KabirC said:


> Put it as item not delivered, just uploaded the PDF.


Good, just make it as easy as possible for PayPal the time line works wonders. The less they need to ask questions the better.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

dazzabling said:


> Good, just make it as easy as possible for PayPal the time line works wonders. The less they need to ask questions the better.


Was trying to upload it but I have to wait for them to respond, if they don't respond in 10 days I win the dispute automatically.


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## RoadRages (Jan 15, 2012)

I would go to the BBB.

They may get things going.....or finished.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

RoadRages said:


> I would go to the BBB.
> 
> They may get things going.....or finished.


I looked I couldn't find these guys in the BBB, it seems that they aren't responding to me.


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## taricp35 (Dec 10, 2008)

First of all the BBB can't make a company work with the consumer, they can only "ask" the company to work it out. The BBB is not affiliated with federal, state, or local government, and has no direct affiliation with any consumer protection government authority. The BBB is a privately held corporation and has no governmental authority over businesses. Soooo the company can tell them to take a hike and there is nothing the BBB can do about it. They may give that company a negative rating but at this point do you think they even care?

Also I just have to mention those jokers got busted for letting companies buy A+ ratings, do anyone even trust them anymore? I will on occasion look to see what the ratings are for a particular business I no nothing about but when the poop hits the fan the BBB is the last place I will call. Call an Attorney! The threat of a lawsuit will get the ball rolling faster than the BBB.

To the poster - You have done the right thing so far. You filed a claim with Paypal. I can tell you that Paypal has already removed the funds from this persons account. This has happend to me twice. Customers filed a claim with Paypal, I received an email from Paypal informing me of the claim and each time the funds were removed from my account. (It was still there but not available for me to use. It showed pending or dispute next to it but I can't remember which) I had to provide Paypal with documentation that the items were shipped. I uploaded the UPS tracking numbers which showed the packages were delivered and I won both cases. Now at the end of the 10 days, Paypal did not release the funds I actually had to call them to see what the hold up was, but once I got them on the phone they released the funds immediately. 

Hope things work out for you.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

BBB is complete joke, I always thought if you send payment and didn't receive with 30 days or something you automatically get money back..


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## dmfelder (Oct 25, 2008)

This is a lesson to all of us. From a legal perspective, if you have written verification of delivery date, most courts would construe it as a contract (within reason). Verbal contracts have no validity in court.

If you suffer damages (i.e., you receive the t-shirts way after the due date and they are rendered useless), you can file suit in civil court. If you believe they have outright stolen from you, there may be an option to file a criminal fraud complaint (although you probably would NOT get remedy because it's the _state versus the defendant_, not the _plaintiff versus the defendant_). A criminal charge, however, might be enough to get them to respond. 

In IL (and states can differ so check out your state's website) if you sue someone in civil court, they must first be served by the sheriff, special process sever, or (after the sheriff fails) by certified mail. In a criminal court case, typically a standard mail notification (sent by the court system) is enough to compel presence in court. If they fail to show up, a warrant is issued. If you fail to show up, the case is dropped.

The nice option for you would be to file--IF POSSIBLE--a criminal complaint. If it's legit, it's free to you, and it would cost the defendant way less to reimburse you than to hire criminal defense.

This sucks, but I snicker a little. My company offers a one-off, print-on-demand, drop-ship to the consumer fulfillment program. We also have a shopping cart solution. There are many options & variables within each program. Each offering comes with a unique contract that establishes roles, responsibilities, turn-around time guarantees, etc. Clients sign the contract(s) before we provide services. 

Here's the kicker: some clients can't understand why we can't simply print-and-ship. This is the _exact _reason why...exception management. In other words, always make sure there is some written agreement...a quote, invoice, etc...that specifically sets-forth the rules of the game--even if it's a one-off job.

Whatever happens, I agree that you should at a minimum file a complaint with the BBB.

Best wishes.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

dmfelder said:


> This is a lesson to all of us. From a legal perspective, if you have written verification of delivery date, most courts would construe it as a contract (within reason). Verbal contracts have no validity in court.
> 
> If you suffer damages (i.e., you receive the t-shirts way after the due date and they are rendered useless), you can file suit in civil court. If you believe they have outright stolen from you, there may be an option to file a criminal fraud complaint (although you probably would NOT get remedy because it's the _state versus the defendant_, not the _plaintiff versus the defendant_). A criminal charge, however, might be enough to get them to respond.
> 
> ...


They told me that the shirts would be done by the Friday after I had ordered it and all that stuff is time stamped so that should be valid in case I do have to take it to the courts. I will look into filing a criminal offense against them, I have warned them multiple times but they are ignoring me completely now.


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## dmfelder (Oct 25, 2008)

Best wishes. It's not a simple situation, and it will require your time and emotional energy. If it's worth it to you, then you should definitely examine your options. Again, criminal court won't get you a legal remedy because it's the state versus the defendant. But the threat of a criminal charge impacts many decisions and he may offer to settle up if you drop charges. Be careful to do plenty of research before you file anything, though. 

Remember the O.J. case. He won in criminal court (i.e., he didn't go to jail), but he lost in civil court (he owed the family $25MM).


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## Jimmy Lee (Oct 5, 2010)

KabirC said:


> They told me that the shirts would be done by the Friday after I had ordered it and all that stuff is time stamped so that should be valid in case I do have to take it to the courts. I will look into filing a criminal offense against them, I have warned them multiple times but they are ignoring me completely now.



Sounds to me that you are just sitting back waiting to see if PayPal is gonna get your money back without doing much more. 

Number one "RULE" in business today is "EXCELLENT" customer service, not just good customer service but "EXCELLENT" customer service. That is how a great business continues to grow and do well and is generated by word of mouth. Here you are now well pass 30 days of your order with this person and this company and you have "no" product and "no" refund. You should be plastering the name of this guy anywhere and everywhere so others do not fall prey to this clown. It is companies like this one that make people hesitate about doing business online which hurts all other printers or business' that are out there trying to succeed by doing business online.

Money was exchanged online which now makes it mail fraud if the product is not delivered. This company (person) has stole from you and is now how this company will continue to conduct business until others take a stand and shut them down or hurt there business by making the public aware at what they have done to you. Who cares what other people say how good they are or how good there product is.

Hope all works out for you.


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks for sharing your story ... I am new at this and trying to learn about the industry. Your story will give me heads up when it comes time to place my first order. Thanks!


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

One thing I wanted to add to my last post but forgot ... Is it a common practice to add a penalty clause to any order to avoid such a situation in the future? By penalty clause I mean spelling out a certain date that the printer must complete the order or there will be financial penalties such as 5% deducted etc. Or withhold final payment till the job is complete.


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## buehrle (Jan 14, 2008)

you should never pay the final bill until you have the goods. a deposit yes. you can add in a penalty for being late but i'd like to think you just found a bad one.


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## sweetts (Apr 4, 2010)

If they are on twitter start slamming them on their forum 

Sent from samsung gem(the worst smart phone ever)


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## dmfelder (Oct 25, 2008)

Interesting question. It's certainly common place to add a "late payment fee" if someone pays after the established terms. I think, though, you're speaking of a penalty clause whereby your cost is discounted if the delivery is late. 

Corporate America simply calls that a performance-based (dis)incentive. In our case, our print-on-demand shirt fulfillment program doesn't use it because clients are put on legal contracts and credit terms. Other stuff (screen printing & embroidery) is normally "one and done" and we certainly don't outright offer a discount if we're late. We'd entertain it, though, and I assume other companies would (at least to build goodwill), so at least from our perspective there's no harm in asking.

Anyone agree? Disagree?


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

"performance-based (dis)incentive" ... I like the term. I know this is used often in the construction sector, and it's something to be considered. But for sure I don't think anyone should make full payment till the order is all done.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

The company is Monster Mash Apparel in San Diego, they decided to ignore me and I will be contacting the police for it.


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

Sorry to tell you this, but the police won’t be able to do anything for you most likely because this is considered a civil matter (a private business transaction that’s gone bad). Not knowing the exact circumstances, I couldn’t tell you for sure.


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## Obertor (Dec 15, 2011)

Paypal will refund every penny to you, don't worry.

Paypal sides with the buyer 100% of the time when it comes to matters like this.


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, I think paypal will be your best bet rather than the police.


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## mimic (Nov 28, 2011)

Whoever runs it is on twitter complaining about being broke and taking a hiatus from the business.


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, slamming them via social network is a good idea.


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## Obertor (Dec 15, 2011)

sonnysark said:


> Yes, slamming them via social network is a good idea.


I've done this to a buyer that stole from me... It works wonders..

I didn't slam them really... I just posted what happened in a very detailed manner


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, it's very effective! Everyone looks up stuff online nowadays.


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## Dante2004 (Aug 23, 2010)

BBB is a joke. Many businesses could care less. Google Wolfgang Puck BBB

Have you tried call them? Perhaps from another number so that they think you are a new customer? Exhaust all the options... Getting thing going with Paypal is great. But don't overlook the possibility that they aren't getting your emails. This doesn't excuse why your product is late, but you don't want to raise all kinds of hell only to find out they've been trying to contact you, death in the family, etc. Remember you are probably dealing with a small business and "life happens". 

Once you've established that they are truly screwing you...push forward with Paypal. Paypal generally sides with the consumer. In this case, it's a good thing. For a business owner, it sucks because Paypal will generally rule against the business EVEN when they are in the right. Trust me. I got screwed big time and I was 110% in the right AND had documentation to back it up.


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## sonnysark (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, BBB is not all that effective. Also, if your paypal is linked with a credit card like mine is, you can also contact the credit card company and refuse the charge. I've done that many times, and they always back me up.


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## Vetta1 (Oct 14, 2011)

KabirC said:


> I sent the payment via Paypal, have already filed a dispute. I just saw that they made a post on Twitter 2 hours ago so it isn't like they aren't online, they are straight ignoring me.


Just curious, did you take the time to read through their tweets and look at the pictures they posted on Twitter before you placed the order? For some reason, just looking at their twitter account alone would've had me raising my eyebrow(s) and giving second thoughts about ordering from them. I see their website is down too, I wonder if it has anything to do with your complaints.  

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get your refund back.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

Good news! Paypal refunded the money. Bad news, they limited my account. Good news, I have a way to get all my money back I am pretty sure.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

Vetta1 said:


> Just curious, did you take the time to read through their tweets and look at the pictures they posted on Twitter before you placed the order? For some reason, just looking at their twitter account alone would've had me raising my eyebrow(s) and giving second thoughts about ordering from them. I see their website is down too, I wonder if it has anything to do with your complaints.
> 
> Anyway, good luck and I hope you get your refund back.


I had not done that as a few people here had worked with them for bag printing, they did the bag printing for On Front Street if I am not mistaken. In any case, you learn from your mistakes. I have made sure to have all terms drawn out as well as working with a local company that gives me all of their information.


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## mir786 (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi, 

I am t-shirts manufacturer in Sialkot, Pakistan. I sent some embroidered and printed t-shirts, polo shirt samples to my customer. He washed them and all printing gone. 

Can u ppl guide me, which is the best company for water paste ink???

Thanks, 
J. Mir


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## Smckee21 (Jul 23, 2010)

Did you try contacting this company on the phone? Or are you close enough that you could stop in?


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

Smckee21 said:


> Did you try contacting this company on the phone? Or are you close enough that you could stop in?


The new one is close enough that I can drop in and I have called them and done heavy background checks on their company.


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## Jenkins24 (Jan 24, 2012)

yeah i would file a police report


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## Smckee21 (Jul 23, 2010)

I am not sure if a police report or anything will do any good. If you are getting your deposit back from pay pal there really isn't any damages. I would simply get my money back and loook for another vendor.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

Smckee21 said:


> I am not sure if a police report or anything will do any good. If you are getting your deposit back from pay pal there really isn't any damages. I would simply get my money back and loook for another vendor.


I got the full amount bank, just warning everyone do not deal with MonsterMash Press!


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## xxdiorcherie (Feb 7, 2012)

^^ Wow I was definitely going to order 500 poly mailers from them because I like their work.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

xxdiorcherie said:


> ^^ Wow I was definitely going to order 500 poly mailers from them because I like their work.


I loved their work so I ordered from them and they kept pushing back the date and then just stopped responding to me. Very disappointed in their customer support and responsiveness. Glad I got my money back though.


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## jayell (Dec 1, 2011)

KabirC said:


> I sent the payment via Paypal, have already filed a dispute. I just saw that they made a post on Twitter 2 hours ago so it isn't like they aren't online, they are straight ignoring me.


Paypal will straighten you out for sure.
They straight robbed you.
Make sure you have the case taken care of before 60 days though because (I think, not certain) after 60 days you can't depend on Paypal to get your cash returned.
Also, I wouldn't wait to let others know they are robbing their customers.
I was in a similar situation a while back and posted on Facebook & Twitter that people should avoid the company because they take your money and do not send the products you paid for....they had the nerve to ask me to stop....what a joke.
But definitely keep up with Paypal...they'll get your money back for you...and if I were you and are offered the chance to have a full refund or the original order I would take the full refund.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me...


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

jayell said:


> Paypal will straighten you out for sure.
> They straight robbed you.
> Make sure you have the case taken care of before 60 days though because (I think, not certain) after 60 days you can't depend on Paypal to get your cash returned.
> Also, I wouldn't wait to let others know they are robbing their customers.
> ...


Man you are bringing all the threads back from the dead.

Haha, already been done if you read above.


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## GN (Aug 1, 2011)

I fear I have fell victim to this company as well..

I've been waiting on my bags for for almost a month and up until last week he had been saying that they are the way, on the way, backed up etc.. I've been patient. But Since last Friday he told me they were going out THAT day, and here it is a week later and still have not received them I sent an email on Thursday morning and he has yet to respond. My red flags went up so I decided to a quick search here and I found this guys case. ... I'm going to give him until Monday then I'm taking action.


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## xxdiorcherie (Feb 7, 2012)

I ordered from the guy who owns Monster Mash Press and I got my shirts in about 3 weeks.


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## KabirC (Aug 29, 2011)

xxdiorcherie said:


> I ordered from the guy who owns Monster Mash Press and I got my shirts in about 3 weeks.


Lucky you in that case, he never sent me anything. Manny was absolutely TERRIBLE in our conversations he stopped responding and I had to file a Paypal dispute to get my money back.


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## GN (Aug 1, 2011)

KabirC said:


> Lucky you in that case, he never sent me anything. Manny was absolutely TERRIBLE in our conversations he stopped responding and I had to file a Paypal dispute to get my money back.


That's who I am dealing with for Polymailers. He said I should receive my Polys by MOnday or Tuesday (today). As of this morning they still have not arrived. He claims he has tracking numbers but couldn't find them at the time he was writing the email. If they don't come today I will file a dispute with the credit card company. Originally I asked him if he took PP and he said no.. I guess that should have been a red flag. I _was _smart enough to use a virtual card that I deleted right after that transaction. If they come today I will repost with an update.


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