# Looking for clarification on dye sublimation



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

Hi friends!

(Bare with me here)

I own a swimwear company. There is a competitor out there doing something interesting.

They creating her own prints and printing them on swimwear fabric. 

While I have no intention of "copying" her ideas (obviously), I am curious about the process, so for those of you who are dye sublimation experts, please chime in (pretty please)

I was under the impression she was using a dye sub process..
however, 
I was recently told that she couldn't be using a dye sub process because her spandex is 80 nylon / 20 spandex.
Is it true you can only dye sub on poly?

If it is not dye sub what could it be? The printing is NOT raised off the fabric in any sense.. it looks as if its "infused" into the fibers of the fabric (and when you stretch the fabric to its limit, you can then see the white fibers, so it is not printed all the way through).. 

I was then advised that it was prob a heat transfer, but I understand that would be raised off the fabric? 
(In this case the print is not raised off the fabric.

Any guidance would be great. 
Thanks so much!


----------



## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I've seen screen printed, with an additive to help the ink adhere to the spandex/nylon. 

You can also do swim caps. They probably use a thinner ink/mesh count.


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

interesting. ( I think i might ask this incorrectly ) but doing it that way doesn't leave a raised feeling on the fabric??


----------



## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Poly80 /spandex20 is my guest.
If you want a few printed as sample please pm me.


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

I've held the fabric before, its way to soft to be poly.. unless she used some seriously strong fabric softener


----------



## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

We do swimwear and womens active wear for a couple of our wholesale clients and in fact if I remember correctly someone offers blank dye sub bikinis. I would guess that they would have some void issues if doing full color just like t-shirts but the point being that clearly it is being done on a daily basis.

The dye sub market is at it's infancy. Every year you see markets that were typically vinyl, screened etc move to dye sub. Swimwear and womens active wear is the latest to really take hold.

We will have some new ladies active wear being completed by our seamstresses this week and should have pics ready by the weekend.


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Sublimation works with nylon, as well, though it depends on the type of nylon -- there are several types, and not all take dye the same way (some also need to be pre-treated, and the sublimation temperatures must be lower). You must test the fabrics, and select the blend that works the best. All-over prints will be sublimated first, cut, then sewn. I'm assuming you do the latter two, so it's just a matter of adding your own printing at the start.

Your fabric supplier can help you find a suitable material for dye sublimation.


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

Gordon, 

THANK YOU!! 
THANK YOU!!

Now the print guy told me I needed to spend 5,000.00 to have the basic stuff to do this, is that right?


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

The $5K price is about right if you're talking about a wide-format printer and 20x25 heat press. If you can limit your prints to a specific size, Dave (see above) can do the printing for you, at what looks like a good price. You can then do the pressing yourself.

When looking for the right nylon material see if you can determine if its nylon 6 or nylon 6,6. The latter has a higher melting point, but it can be harder to dye. Some fabrics made for dying have special additives to help it take up color. This is why you need to talk with your fabric supplier.

There are poly-based bikini sets specially made for subbing, like this one:

American Apparel | Made in Downtown LA | t-shirts for wholesale and consumer

Already cut, you just print and press.


.


----------



## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

Polyester and nylon in combinations with spandex and Lycra work really well for dye-sublimation. A lot of swimwear is sublimated. When you order the fabric, make sure you ask the wholesaler that your intention is to sublimate the fabric - if the fabric is not suitable, for some reason (i.e. some kind of specific treatment), they should know and inform you about it.

Not sure about US, but in Australia there is a fabric called chloroban - apparently much better than traditional swimwear fabrics, because it lasts longer if used in the pool, not just on a beach.

Swimwear fabrics can be printed in rolls, or, if you require a particular placement of the design (i.e. logo on a hip) it could be easier to print on pre-cut pieces. In any case, Lycra-rich or Spandex-rich fabrics should be tested for shrinkage and you may need to pre-shrink the fabric or use tacky paper, or both.


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

Gordon - your information is helpful.. as far as the already made bikinis, that isn't for me at all, as I patter, cut and sew each one of my OWN designs in my studio space.. 
So, it looks like I've got to hunt down some grey goods 

D.Evo - I have been begging for Chloroban for ever. I can't get them to send me samples!!! Maybe it's because I don't have a contact, but I've requested samples, and am willing to purchase production yardage but like I said, I can't get anyone to get back to me  you are right the Chloroban is superior to anything else on the market  

I suppose if I'm honest, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm receiving lots of helpful messages from amazing people trying to offer their services to me, but ultimately I'm looking to set up my stuff... I really value being vertically integrated, and while I'm not afraid to spend the $$ to set up shop.. 
I am wondering if there is a less expensive way to "start" so I can get through the learning curve and not have any super expensive mistakes


----------



## maryellen1234 (Mar 4, 2010)

There is a company called Agon swimwear. I have ordered several suits from them for my daughters. I wanted to see the quality of the sublimation and the quality of the suit. They are pretty good quality. The color seems to last through the swim season. But I did talk to them at one time about getting blank white and he stated he would need to check into that. But you might try them for suit samples. They have 4-8 styles, not just bikinis!


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

maryellen, 
thanks for taking the time to comment. I will check them out just for curiosity sake, however, as I stated before I don't need bikinis themselves as I design, pattern, cut and sew ALL of my own creations.. 
it would be the grey goods or rather the fabric itself that I'll have to find a supplier for


----------



## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I think you're missing the point about trying bikini blanks. The idea is to see if the technique and result appeal to you, before you make a larger investment. You could effectively try your own art on a pre-made garment without any capital expenditure, at least not the printing part, which is expensive and requires a major learning curve. This isn't a weekend endeavor; many people who try dye sublimation give up in frustration because they never seem to get it right.


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

I understand the point.. and I also understand the learning curve.. and I'm fully aware that this isn't a "weekend project" .. nor have I attempted to trivialize anything that has been posted.. 

using blank bikini's as practice is actually a higher expenditure than acquiring the grey goods samples to find the right fiber content that will work.. 

not only that, purchasing the blank bikini's gives me no point of reference for the grey goods.. so it is an extra step..

I'm certain you get alot of people trucking through here trivializing the patience that it takes to do this sort of work and get it set up right.. be assured that I appreciate all the content that has been posting..


----------



## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

You have the right mind set Ripple and to be honest you are light years ahead of the game. The most difficult part of cut and sew is finding someone who can make patterns and finding a professional seamstress. You have that part out of the way. The only real challenge you have is finding a fabric that dye sublimates well that meets your design concepts. 

It is simple trial and error.


----------



## RippleSwimwear (Sep 10, 2012)

thanks!!


----------



## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I have a couple of people but they charge a lot. 

I was thinking of taking a few classes. Saw a person bartering to teach sewing. She was if we Power Wash her house she teach us the basics. 

We could probably read a couple of Singer sewing books and teach ourselves. After all, most of us taught ourselves how to screen print with a few exceptions from those here to helped us.


----------



## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

selanac said:


> I have a couple of people but they charge a lot.
> 
> I was thinking of taking a few classes. Saw a person bartering to teach sewing. She was if we Power Wash her house she teach us the basics.
> 
> We could probably read a couple of Singer sewing books and teach ourselves. After all, most of us taught ourselves how to screen print with a few exceptions from those here to helped us.


It is so not that simple - trust me years back I thought the exact same thing and even bought a crappy Singer. First home sewing machines will not do it. You need, at the minimum an industrial serger and an industrial cover stitch machine. Adjusting a serger is a science in itself. 

If you go back and look at quite a few post on this forum showing off jerseys, etc you will see how difficult it is to do professionally. Many of them that were meant to show off their work showed off a mess of puckered seams especially around the collar.

If you outsource your seamstress work, depending on quantity of work you give a seamstress, it should cost you approx $4 - $7 to have shirt like items sewn. We calculated we needed to do 400-500+ to bring that function in-house. Even when you do bring it in-house you do not want the seamstress(es) anywhere near the printers or the presses and the airborne lint created in the process can be a pain.


----------

