# will 110 mesh count work with half tones



## vintageracer117 (Jul 18, 2005)

i'm going to try to print some shirts this is the first time i will be trying half tones but was thinking that my mesh would not be right i have 110 but was thinking that somthing around 230 is what i wouls need anyone have any idea if the 110 count would work

aaron


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Depends on how much detail you're trying to hold. If you're happy with high contrast you can get a decent looking halftone on a 110, but usually people would use something higher.


----------



## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

I'd go with Lewis, it will handle coarser halftones but you're going to lose the finer dots and you'll find the shadows filling in. Use a 230 or 300tpi and go for 55lpi.


----------



## vintageracer117 (Jul 18, 2005)

thanks guys i'll give it a try the the 110 and if i dont like it i will have to buy something like 230

aaron


----------



## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Try at around 35lpi - it will hold more, but coarser, detail.


----------



## Spot_Worker (Oct 22, 2008)

With the 55lpi would you have to burn the screen differently than the 110(screen ) for normal printing.


----------



## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

There's no difference in the burning - light doesn't know what is happening a millimetre away (apologies to quantum physicists) but as the dots get smaller (and that means the shadows because the screen is actually a negative) the chances of a dot falling between two threads gets bigger. You can lower this probability by making the dots bigger or the screen smaller. So a 35lpi dot might hold an 8% dot whilst a 55lpi dot will struggle with a 12% dot (in negative, of course).
Use the empirical method.


----------



## Spot_Worker (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm feeling you dave. My boss is trying their hand at dot printing as it were. So far the dots are not washing out right. Its a bit muddy in places.....so if the time to burn a screen doesn't change much.... must not washing the screen will then, thanx


----------



## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

I've done 35-40 lpi on 110 mesh with pretty good results.


----------



## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Spot_Worker said:


> I'm feeling you dave. My boss is trying their hand at dot printing as it were. So far the dots are not washing out right. Its a bit muddy in places.....so if the time to burn a screen doesn't change much.... must not washing the screen will then, thanx


Sounds rude...
It could be that your possies are burning through?
Have you got the ink facing the mesh and vacuumed to the mesh (could be light getting underneath, not a problem with blocks)?
Are the blocks washing out OK?


----------



## vintageracer117 (Jul 18, 2005)

well Brian if mine looks that good i'll be happy i will be trying it tonite 

Aaron


----------



## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

Good luck Aaron,

Couple quick things... 

I generally burn mine for a little less time than normal (1:00 to 1:15 minutes less than normal)

When you go to washout the burn, be very gentle, don't blast it with a pressure washer. I found a garden hose attachment with a "mist" setting will do a great job. It may take longer for the areas to wash out, but it will eventually come off and you won't lose your finer dots.

Wash out from the "shirt" side ONLY... this way the pressure of the water will push the emulsion back into the screen, instead of away from it if you were blasting from the "ink" side


----------



## vintageracer117 (Jul 18, 2005)

well brian i found that out last nite when it all washed out but it was looking good for a while i will give it one more try later 

Aaron


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

We have burned 45-50 lpi screens on 110, but you have to use dual-cure emulsion, and you have to have a good strong light source and preferably a vacuum hold-down. I accidently burned a 75lpi halftone on a 230 screen last Friday an it actually came out and printed fine.


----------



## Spot_Worker (Oct 22, 2008)

PositiveDave said:


> Sounds rude...
> It could be that your possies are burning through?
> Have you got the ink facing the mesh and vacuumed to the mesh (could be light getting underneath, not a problem with blocks)?
> Are the blocks washing out OK?



rude...? What is a possies?Just looking to fix something that I have no control of. I'll have to snap a pic of the problem.


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

A possie is your image,if you burned a negative your customer would be pissed.Just kidding. The positive is the correct name for your films unless your trying to reverse out something, then it would be a negative. Sound confusing? Not really ,but thats really what your exposing.


----------



## Spot_Worker (Oct 22, 2008)

....I see.... I've worked both sides of the film. THE "DARK" side as well as the THE "LIGHT" side


----------



## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

You can use a square dot (stochastic) to get better resolution on 110 mesh.
A halftone would be very coarse and scratchy on a 110.


----------



## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

vetscreener said:


> You can use a square dot (stochastic) to get better resolution on 110 mesh.
> A halftone would be very coarse and scratchy on a 110.


I used standard dots on mine, but have also used eliptical

squares on 110 look like an old atari video game in my opinion


----------



## vetscreener (May 15, 2009)

I have used 72ppi square dots on 110 to print towels. To get high end super resolution images with the equivalent of say an 85 line screen you need 185 ppi on 230 mesh.


----------



## rence12 (Sep 26, 2008)

ok after reading I guess, well I'm thinking maybe higher mesh count, on the right is my transparency and left is my print,not enough detail on print


----------



## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

rence12 said:


> ok after reading I guess, well I'm thinking maybe higher mesh count, on the right is my transparency and left is my print,not enough detail on print


Did you compensate for Dot Gain? It is generally best done as a curve where the dots for the mid and dark tones are shrunk the most. How much you need depends on the ink and how you print and, more often than not, the declination of Venus 

Aspects of this video are specific to SimpleSeps and Corel, but the principle is universal. And even for the SS/Corel scenario, I would rather save custom tone curves than embed the default as they do here. 
https://www.advancedtshirts.com/video-tutorial/setting-up-a-custom-dot-gain-curve/

If all that seems too much work, you can just apply a flat Dot Gain adjustment, but that will likely lose some of the light tones.


----------



## rence12 (Sep 26, 2008)

ok ha thanks but I'm a newbie, when referring to dot gain etc..... I'm lost


----------



## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

rence12 said:


> ok ha thanks but I'm a newbie, when referring to dot gain etc..... I'm lost


There are a lot of potential contributors, but the main aspect is that the ink spreads a bit after getting pushed through the little "dot" opening in the mesh that is a halftone dot. Thus the dots on the shirt will be larger than the dots on the film/art, making the overall image darker, especially in areas from the midtones to the darkest tones.

One compensates for this by adjusting the size of the halftones dots to print smaller on the film, especially the dots for the mid to dark tones.

Some applications/tools have adjustments specifically for this purpose. But one can also just adjust the tone curve of the art before halftoning it.

And how you print: how hard, how many strokes, with what ink etc also affects Dot gain. Do a few prints on scrap first, as you need to get the halftone worked up with ink before you get an accurate idea of how it will print on a run of shirts.


----------



## Danmark (Oct 12, 2017)

Use dual cure emulsion, not pure photopolymer as the latitude is not there. The exposure time will increase dramatically with the dual cure but the end result is exceptional.


----------



## rence12 (Sep 26, 2008)

After taking advice from everyone in here I first went from 110 to 230 and after some test printing I found that by pushing light and not so fast it was happy, thanks everyone , this forum is the best


----------

