# Need help with transfer marks (pics included)



## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

New to sublimation.

Setup:

Hottronix Fusion (threadable press)
Rubber 16x20 bottom platen
Teflon platen cover
Bare press (no teflon cover).

I researched all of the tested ways to press sub transfers without leaving marks from the platen or the transfer paper itself, but still cannot seem to get it correct.

Current setup:

385 degrees, 45 seconds. Ink transfers perfectly no issues there.
ZERO pressure on the Fusion. I mean zero. Knob won't lessen pressure any more!
Using A4 3142 100% poly shirts.
Shirt is threaded on the platen so only one side makes contact.
Using brown kraft paper on top of the shirt/transfer to shield the heat element.

Method #1:

I purchased the Vapor Foam kit and followed the instructions. There are no lines from the transfer paper, but after pressing, there are faint lines in the shape of the piece of foam! As stated earlier, the pressure cannot be reduced any more, and I've made sure the edges of the transfer paper hang over and are wider than the foam piece itself.

Also, when looking at the shirt in the light, the area where the heat press and the foam cutout met gives a different, slightly whiter "sheen" than the rest of the shirt where there was no pressure applied between the platen and heat press. The shirt isn't "burnt" per se, but you can see the press area highlighted.

Method #2:

I bought a collection of rubber pads - basically mouse pads - from BestBlanks.com. After pressing there are no lines from the transfer paper because the edges hang over the edges of the pad, but there is a press imprint in the shape of the pad! It's like I swapped one for the other.

Sheen is an issue here, too. Despite the kraft paper cover, the pressing area has a different "sheen" than the rest of the shirt that did not have pressure.

Help:

Can any of you sublimation ninjas recommend any additional or different steps to help eliminate the transfer paper marks AND any marks that are generated by the cushioning implement (pad, foam, etc.)?

The photo with the state of Kansas outline shows the marks left by the Vapor foam pad. The other photo shows the marks left using no padding and just the small transfer paper. The last photo shows the rubber pad being used.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## EXTouch (Mar 22, 2007)

What brand of paper are you using if you don't mind me asking?


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

The paper is from mytransfersource. com.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

The fix is easy. Never allow the edge of the paper transfer under the press on top of fabric.
If you do you will get a HARD LINE that will never wash out. ONLY use paper larger than the press.
Now all the experts can chime in with out the tricks about pads, foam, tearing edges of paper. etc.. Sorry to be so blunt.


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

Dave, 

I made sure in both cases with the foam and the rubber pad that the edge of the paper was larger than the cushion. To Vapor's credit, they stress and diagram this in their instructions. 

Despite the low presssure, it looks like the foam actually cause the line and not the transfer. Is this common?


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

skdave said:


> The fix is easy. Never allow the edge of the paper transfer under the press on top of fabric.
> If you do you will get a HARD LINE that will never wash out. ONLY use paper larger than the press.
> Now all the experts can chime in with out the tricks about pads, foam, tearing edges of paper. etc.. Sorry to be so blunt.


Also, by "always use paper lager than the press", do you mean never use paper less than 16x20 (in my case)?


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Yes Alex, I understand.
The pad caused the line .This is why I said none of that stuff works. If you didn't use the pad the paper would have caused the line. 
As for as the sheen on the poly. The pad caused that as well. 
You need to have a soft under pad like nomax sp
Then turn the press pressure down so a piece of craft paper will just slightly move when the press is closed.
lower your temp down to 390F for about 50-55 seconds . These are ball park numbers you need to hit.
Cover the transfer with 1 piece of craft paper.
Best of luck.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

skdave said:


> Yes Alex, I understand.
> The pad caused the line .This is why I said none of that stuff works. If you didn't use the pad the paper would have caused the line.
> As for as the sheen on the poly. The pad caused that as well.
> You need to have a soft under pad like nomax sp
> ...


Dave I use pads and never get lines. Pads cause lines when the pressure is too high or the pad has still too hard of an edge. Placing another fabric over a pad (slightly larger than the pad) can help with the edges.

I know I'm not the lone pad user here. I also use paper larger than the_ elevated_ print area but I cannot print larger than the tshirt or my platen with a 13 inch printer.

If what you state is impossible to work then no one with a tabloid size printer could sublimate t-shirts without getting lines. Sorry but you are wrong on this.

I don't use Nomex for tshirts, but my pad is softer than the lower pad on the press ... but is Nomex not a "pad"?


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

Mike,

Are you using a rubber pad or foam?

Thanks!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

burgertech said:


> Mike,
> 
> Are you using a rubber pad or foam?
> 
> Thanks!


I use your method #2.

Make sure the following:

1. Place "blow paper" inside your tshirt. It needs to be larger than the pad.

2. Place the pad under the shirt _not inside_ the shirt.

3. Cover the pad with paper or fabric (like felt) larger than the pad.

If you still have trouble back off the pressure and/or add more paper to steps 1 and 3.

I don't know if you checked your press temp with an accurate temp measuring instrument, could be on the high side but you can still drop your temp a little bit to reduce the sheen. Also, the top paper covering everything if really really smooth can "polish" the shirt, try some paper that has a bit of a texture.

The pad won't cause sheen if you have sufficient blow paper and something soft on top of it.


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> I use your method #2.
> 
> Make sure the following:
> 
> ...



Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. Couple of questions:

1. By "blow paper", do you mean kraft paper to stop the ink from bleeding through to the other side of the shirt?

2. I am threading the shirt on the platen, so the only place for the pad to go is under the shirt. Are you suggesting that I lay the shirt on top of the platen (not thread it), and place the pad under both the front and back of the shirt?

I took Dave's advise and adjusted the pressure so that I can just slightly move a single piece of kraft paper when the press is closed. This is noticeably less pressure than I used yesterday, so hopefully this will aide in seeing better results.

Thanks in advance!


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Another trick if your paper is too small hang off the press edge is to contour cut your transfer then apply without any padding. That permanent paper line is now following the outline of your print and can add a nice touch.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

burgertech said:


> Mike,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. Couple of questions:
> 
> ...


Yes, "blow" paper keeps the dye from going through the tshirt. Since you are "dressing the press" you still need to protect the pad from dye build up.

Dressing the press makes it easier to keep from getting a fold on the back side but if you are careful you can feel any folds before pressing easy enough if the pad is under the tshirt.

If you still want to dress the press then use paper or felt fabric over the pad, larger than the pad. The idea is to help round off those edges on the pad. But also find the least pressure required to still give you a good transfer.

Those large "mousepads" work for me but the pressure setting has more of a narrow "window" than the vapor foam does. Also, how stiff the fixed lower pad is can matter. Mine seems to be OK with the right pressure and the "mousepads" and the right "sandwich".

The Vapor foam probably works better for most people but my only complaint with it is has "memory" so you can only get "x" presses with it.

The fabric stores has some stuff a lot cheaper than vapor foam so it is less costly over time to "chuck it" when it has collapsed too much. There are some posts here about so I'll look for those.

Nomex felt as Dave describes is probably the best stuff out there. I use it for tiles as it conforms nicely to the tile bevels. I have a dedicated press for tiles and use it but it is _very expensive_, and if you have to have several sizes then even more expensive.

I suspect SKDave is using Nomex to keep the hard fixed pad and heater platen from creasing the overhang of the tshirts, and the Nomex is near the size of his fixed lower platen on smaller presses. 

But not all sizes of tshirts will overhang the platen and they will crease, but the crease would be at the sides of the shirts and less obvious. But this means you _must_ have paper larger than the platen too with what Dave has described to avoid the paper crease. 

If you used Nomex with your smaller paper (paper is overhanging just like other pads) it would still be a pad, just a softer pad. I would only consider that as a last resort using a smaller paper due to cost, but it's good stuff.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

splathead said:


> Another trick if your paper is too small hang off the press edge is to contour cut your transfer then apply without any padding. That permanent paper line is now following the outline of your print and can add a nice touch.


Yes, that's a good point. If I have a solid shape design with no open space the crease is still there but doesn't stand out.

On design with open white space the crease would be more obvious, perhaps less obvious when you are trimming around your design though. Never tried it with open white space designs though.


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## tippy (May 27, 2014)

Beveling the edges of your pad will help. The silky/shiny shirts are the trickiest (for me) to print without lines.

I layer it as follows, bottom to top:
Foam, with edges beveled
Teflon sheet
Shirt
Transfer paper that is larger than the foam
protective cover paper


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

tippy said:


> Beveling the edges of your pad will help. The silky/shiny shirts are the trickiest (for me) to print without lines.
> 
> I layer it as follows, bottom to top:
> Foam, with edges beveled
> ...


I am using the same layers but I integrated the "Foam with edges beveled" and the "Teflon Sheet" into one unit. This is how:

I have a Hotronix 16"x20" heatpress, so I bought a 16"x20" Upper Teflon Cover and used it on the BOTTOM (!) platen. The reason is that the upper cover is NOT 16"x20" but 17"x21" because the housing of the upper heater element is larger than the lower platen which is exactly 16"x20".

I also bought a piece of green foam from Joann's Fabric and I cut a 17"x21" rectangle from it.

If I put the *oversized foam* on the lower platen and cover it with the also *oversized Teflon cover* it creates a perfect, very stable "beveled foam" with Teflon surface.

So, my layers are a bit simpler:

1.) Bottom platen (which is beveled and as soft as the baby's bottom) 
2.) Shirt
3.) Transfer paper

Protective paper is not always necessary since the transfer paper is there, and I also have a Teflon cover on the top element of the heater and I can clean that easily.

If I print front and back, of course I have to put a paper on the bottom platen because the first image would leave some ink on the bottom platen during the transferring of the second image...


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

tippy said:


> Beveling the edges of your pad will help. The silky/shiny shirts are the trickiest (for me) to print without lines.
> 
> I layer it as follows, bottom to top:
> Foam, with edges beveled
> ...


Thanks so much for all of the help - this is the essence of the collaborative power of the internet.

I ended up using Tippy's method as a combination of the suggestions above.

From bottom to top:

1. Vapor foam cut bigger than the printed design on the transfer, but smaller than the transfer sheet itself.
2. Two pieces of kraft paper bigger than the piece of foam by about 1/2" on each side.
3. A cut piece of A4 100% poly shirt (one-ply)
4. 16X20 Teflon sheet just laid on the press.
5. Threaded shirt over teflon sheet on platen
6. Placed transfer over "raised" area.
7. Kraft cover sheet.

This 100% eliminated the transfer marks.

There were some other "marks", most notably from the platen itself. Nothing too crazy, but the weight of adult L, XL and larger sizes is enough to pull down down on the edges of the rubberized platen as the shirt hangs down and stretch under the heat a bit. I think a bigger teflon sheet - one taped over the edges will do the trick.

The other thing I learned is that with the Hotronix Fusion, the pressure knob on top has a limit when the press is open. But when you close the press, you can then loosen the pressure even more - to the point where you need it to be to compensate for the foam and other layers on the platen.

All in all, it's a workable setup, albeit a little cumbersome.

I'm going to sand down the rubber edges of my stock Fusion platen as SKDAVE recommended.

Finally, make sure you don't to change the setup too frequently. Meaning, if you're pressing on the back of the shirt and the front, setup for one side and knock them all out. Then switch up the setup to meet the new transfer size/layout (assuming it's different) and go from there. You'd be insane to keep switching back and forth between setups to do a complete shirt that requires multiple transfers.

Hope this thread helps anyone else in the future!


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## marathonman (Sep 24, 2011)

After I get done pressing the transfer immediately take the print off the shirt and place a piece of blow out paper onto the shirt and I press for 6 to 8 seconds. It greatly reduces the lines to the point where it's not noticeable.


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

marathonman said:


> After I get done pressing the transfer immediately take the print off the shirt and place a piece of blow out paper onto the shirt and I press for 6 to 8 seconds. It greatly reduces the lines to the point where it's not noticeable.


Thanks.

Just to confirm, we're talking about dye sublimation paper and not a plastisol transfer?!

If you re-press after removing the sheet, doesn't it heat the ink back up and smudge the design already sublimated onto the shirt?


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## marathonman (Sep 24, 2011)

burgertech said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Just to confirm, we're talking about dye sublimation paper and not a plastisol transfer?!
> 
> If you re-press after removing the sheet, doesn't it heat the ink back up and smudge the design already sublimated onto the shirt?



It's dye sublimation. I never had that problem. After I take the paper with print on it off I place a piece of blow out paper on the shirt and press for 6 to 8 seconds.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

burgertech said:


> Just to confirm, we're talking about dye sublimation paper and not a plastisol transfer?!
> 
> If you re-press after removing the sheet, doesn't it heat the ink back up and smudge the design already sublimated onto the shirt?


Once sublimated, it's not really ink any longer; it's dye. While it won't smudge, it may lighten a bit if any dye is transferring to the blow paper. 
Not sure though, I never repress.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Yes the image will go lighter. Sometimes even duller than you want. Its the same as when you sub a red shirt or any colored poly shirt. You get that shiny box from the platen cuz of the reheating of the red dye already on the shirt.


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

freebird1963 said:


> Yes the image will go lighter. Sometimes even duller than you want. Its the same as when you sub a red shirt or any colored poly shirt. You get that shiny box from the platen cuz of the reheating of the red dye already on the shirt.


Thanks for the info.

In you experience, what's the best way to eliminate the "shiny box" on colored poly blanks when sublimating (even on the first press)?

Would a softer platen surface (perhaps some Nomex pad or similar) help, or is it just strictly related to the heat and not the pressure?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

burgertech said:


> In you experience, what's the best way to eliminate the "shiny box" on colored poly blanks when sublimating (even on the first press)?


The 'best' way is to use a press (and transfer paper) larger than the garment. 

Not sure what the 2nd best way is. Freebird?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Wish I had an answer but I have never had luck keeping the shine box off pre-colored sub shirts.
I tried Teflon sheets, paper, several papers laid on top. Light pressure, etc and just about anything that I could think of.
Only thing I haven't tried is sacrificing a chicken before pressing a colored shirt.
One thing someone else said they did was press the entire shirt all at once but my press is not big enough for that. 

I haven't had any colored shirts in a while but the one thing I was gonna try was to start at a lower temp like 350 with longer dwell time and start there and see if I could press w/o getting the box. And work my way up to my normal pressing temp and see if maybe if pressed at a lower temp then the original press temp when the shirt was made might work. Doubt it but got nothing else I can think of to try.


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## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

I found Dave at S&K who makes an outstanding product - the 18X22 transfer sheets are dynamite and there are no press lines. Even with a sheet larger than the platen, we've found the dreaded "shine box" on some garments, especially the hem line of poly shorts where the garment is draped on a 8x10 platen and only a portion of the garment is pressed.

Thanks again......


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## pmzirkle (Oct 5, 2014)

After years of trying to eliminate lines in sublimated apparel we contour cut all of our transfers. Everything from names, numbers, logos etc..
Using a 20" press we always cover the entire garment with a new sheet of heavy white butcher paper so as others have posted the heated platen never contacts directly on garment. We press at med pressure 395 degrees 70 seconds. After removing pattern we can smooth out some of the lines while it us still hot. No way around the faint press outline just try to smooth it a little while still hot. We have used the foam however it takes up way too much shop time getting it in and out. If we were to use the foam on every shirt we would have to add 5 to 10 minutes labor. Very rarely have any customers complained about press lines and mist come back for more shirts.


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