# Eco friendly screen printing



## KingJut (May 14, 2007)

Morning all,

Im currently working on a new label, Its a long story, But we will be using organic cotton, or sustained, (prob AA) but to add value and give us a real head start I really wanted to use Environmentally friendly printing.

Does anyone know how this could be done? Im guessing some kind of water base screen printing. 

Any suggestions, links or info much appreciated.

J


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Check out some dtg printers in your area.

No chemicals, waterbased inks, and virtually no waste.

Not to mention, virtually nothing to clean up at the end of the day and nothing going down the drain.

But there are some waterbased screenprinters out there.

If you're looking for the most eco friendly, I would go to thier shop and see how things are done. See how much waste is there at the end of the day. See how they deal with left over ink, etc. Dont forget about packaging, shipping and things like that too, if you are really trying to boast that in your line.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

That would be what I recommend. Even the closed cartridge printers have recyclable cartridges so just a minuscule amount of waste ends up in the garbage. Not even enough to fill a garbage bag in a year, even with heavy use.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Sorry, not chemical free. 

Also darks require a chemical pretreatment.

IMO it seems that dtg uses way less chemicals when compared to any other printing method.


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## perrolocodesigns (Oct 24, 2006)

I forget their name, but there is a screen printing company in the US that prints with 100% organic ink. You can probably find them through Google if nobody esle here remembers the company name.


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## SeasonEnds (Sep 9, 2007)

T-shirts Organic Cotton Planet Ink Clothing


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

I actually emailed my contact to see if they have done any studies on exactly what is in the ink vapor. It would be interesting to find out.

I think it is sort of irresponsible to try and compare digital inks to cigarette smoke.

Also California is full of nutjobs. There is a campaign there to ban fireplaces...yet they don't burn the underbrush and the refusal to do controlled burns is what caused so much death and destruction there. So if they think something causes cancer, I don't exactly say..."Holy smokes, let me stop doing that, or I'll get cancer."

A few good points:

The funny thing about life...NOBODY MAKES IT OUT ALIVE.

Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying Of nothing.

Yeah, DTG inks aren't the best thing out there, but screen printing has a lot more of them. So in the grand aspect, DTG is safer for us and the environment. The vapors that come strictly from heating a shirt to cure ANY ink releases chemicals in the water vapor from moisture trapped in the shirt.


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## karolina (Oct 7, 2007)

Do you by chance know where Planet Ink gets their ink from? Can anyone buy this organic ink? I'd like to try using it... Thanks a ton!


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## mothertongues (Aug 8, 2005)

You could also look into Rehance - look at tsdesigns | printing t-shirts for good. Sounds/looks like great ecofriendly company, just too expensive for little companies like mine.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

I use Dupont and dont see any one of those on my MSDS sheets.

Not to say there is not any, just not any of those.


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## SketchBox (Jan 4, 2008)

there is an australian company Permaset that makes eco friendly water based ink its called Aqua, I use it and it is fantastic but expensive, its really up to you if you want eco friendly be ready to spend at least twice as much on ink as you would on a PVC based plastisol. I spend about three times more on ink than I would if I didnt care about my local environment. For that reason I dont think you are gonna find a profesional screen printer that uses it though. hope this helps.


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

karolina said:


> Do you by chance know where Planet Ink gets their ink from? Can anyone buy this organic ink? I'd like to try using it... Thanks a ton!


I was told that they make the inks themselves! I have not verified this.


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> With chemicals, "less" does not equal "safer". The magic of DTG is cross polymerization. The pre-treatment combined with the ink under temperature causes a chemical reaction which binds the image to the shirt. To make this happen a small amount of formaldehyde is required. Formaldehyde is listed as a carcinogen in California as is Ethyl acrylate.


Is the formaldehyde in the pretreatment? 

Are there still issues if you are using no white ink and no pretreatment?


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

> Really? The why is the MSDS of DTG ink show a higher level of risk? If you wish to start playing the game of DTG being safe, in my prior post i listed a link to the A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Generally, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. Click here for answers to common patent questions.
> ", "style=\"border: 1pt solid #000000;background: #FFFFCC;padding: 3px;font-size: 10px;overflow: auto;\"");" class="gal">patent of DTG printing. Which chemicals on the list is safe? _methylol acrylamide? methylol methacrylamide? methyl acrylamidoglycolate methyl ether? acrylamidoglycolic acid? __formamide?_
> DTG is a chemical cocktail.


Well, I am looking at the MSDS for the each of the Brother inks and guess what...no formaldehyde or any of those other compounds you have listed. It depends on the manufacturer. 

I won't disagree that compounds get more toxic as you heat them and they vaporize, or at least it is easier to inhale them that way, but do you really think that the paint thinner/press cleaner or whatever you use isn't horrible. That atomizes when sprayed through a squirt bottle or spray can.

As far as chemical cocktails go, you have to realize that cotton is the most chemically treated plant on earth. I would bet my @ss that there is worse stuff in the dyes than the ink.


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## karolina (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks SketchBox (and everyone else)! I was about to lose hope... Does Aqua offer waterbased? Do you have their website? Thanks again!!!

I did email Rehance about their ink and got this response this morning: 

Karolina, we do not sell our inks since REHANCE, it is a process of print then garment dye. Our process allows us to have prints on darker colors shirts, but we start out on white or natural then garment dye.

Not quite sure what he means... Thanks and have a great day!


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

karolina said:


> Thanks SketchBox (and everyone else)! I was about to lose hope... Does Aqua offer waterbased? Do you have their website?


I'm guessing by the name, 'Aqua' that it is a waterbased ink. 

There are plenty of waterbased inks available, I think Permaset is a little difficult to get in the US.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

True, but my point is still this:

IT'S SAFER THAN SCREEN PRINTING. Is it 100% safe, no. Nothing is, not even taunting tigers at the zoo is safe anymore.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

mk162 said:


> True, but my point is still this:
> 
> IT'S SAFER THAN SCREEN PRINTING. Is it 100% safe, no. Nothing is, not even taunting tigers at the zoo is safe anymore.


IMO dtg is safer than sublimation and discharge printing too.

DTG also produces less waste than ANY other printing method, which is good for the earth.


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## SketchBox (Jan 4, 2008)

The aqua ink is waterbased, thats the only kind this company makes for textile printing, but it has a ton of colours and the opaque line is very good but more expensive and requires a less dense mesh because it is has the consistancy of mayo, but it works. Permaset by Colormaker heres their site and as someone said before it is alittle difficult to find in northamerica as only one company that I know of supplies the US and a different one supplies Canada so if they run out your kinda of hosed for a couple weeks.  but you can buy it at Permaset Aqua Fabric Ink - BLICK art materials in the states and opusframing.com in Canada.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

Depends which brand of inks you are using. That wash results for the Brother inkset isn't that far off from screen printing. Brother inks are extremely durable, I end up throwing my shirts away because they look nasty before the ink fades out.

Get some Brother samples and wash and wear them. I have some that are over 4 years old that still look GREAT! Just the shirts are nasty.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> Say what? DTG shirts begin to look like hell after 1-2 dozen washes. I've got screen printed shirts over 10 years old with several hundred washes on them and they still are some of my favorite shirts. Do 10 year old screen printed shirts have cracks in the ink? YES!, but that is what i love the most.
> 
> The waste in the t-shirt business is how fast the shirts end up in the landfill. DTG has a long way yet to go to longevity.
> 
> fred


Not to say that you're entirely wrong, but some, not all, but some screen printed shirts crack after a few washes and look like crap. I also have shirts that I have printed (dtg), wore, and washed that dont look like crap, even after a couple dozen washes. Granted they do fade some, but its all about proper curing. Which brings me to my next point. It was my understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, that the vapor released from curing a dtg shirt was water vapor, not chemical vapor. The inks dont turn into gas like in dye sub. The whole point of curing a dtg shirt is to get the water out, correct?

How much waste (trash) would a screen printer produce if he/she were to print a 16 color design? A lot more than me. Same with transfers and dye sub.

With where the dtg market is going, its only a matter of time until our inks are produced by "green" companies and dont fade at all.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

ImageIt said:


> Jim Jones's kool-aid was also water based. Just because something is water based in no way implies that safe.
> 
> fred


I didn't say anything about it being safe, did I? 

I was just making a reply on the Permaset inks. The question was: "Does Aqua offer waterbased?" Had nothing to do with it being safe or not.

But since we're on the topic, one advantage WB inks do have is the lack of PVC and the ability to clean up with just water. So in that way, yes, I'd say they're better.

It also makes a lot of sense that DTG would be easier on the planet since there isn't much waste. No cleanup chems, no inks going down the drain etc.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> In the MSDS, they typically lest the chemicals in broad categories such as "Humectant's" and "Polymer's, which are not specific types of chemicals, but are broad terms covering MANY chemicals. Out of curiosity, i looked up the patent of th DTG ink, which is where i was able to match chemical names to the generic polymer term.
> 
> 
> _*Rohm and Haas'*s ink patent (*7,074,842*)
> ...


I just wanted to clarify something with this MSDS , Rohm and Haa's inks are no longer being produced. It would be interesting to see what the MSDS is for dupont inks.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

The only product at a "2" for health is pretreatment. The pretreatment has "0" for flammability, and "0" for reativity.

All the rest are "1" for health, "1" for flammablity, and "0" for reactivity.
This is for Dupont ink, including white.

The cleaning solution (from DDM) has a "0" for health, "1" for flame, and "0" for reactivity.

On the right hand side are the MSDS for Dupont inks.
DDM - Home of the Flexi-Jet direct to garment printer


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

the funk said:


> The only product at a "2" for health is pretreatment. The pretreatment has "0" for flammability, and "0" for reativity.
> 
> All the rest are "1" for health, "1" for flammablity, and "0" for reactivity.
> This is for Dupont ink, including white.
> ...


yep that was what I was able to find also. That is why I was confused, I was trying to find where there were any 2's listed but could not find any. Only 1's.


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## SketchBox (Jan 4, 2008)

ImageIt said:


> Permaset by Color maker contains Nonyl Phenol Ethoxylate
> 
> Environment Canada declared NP/NPE as CEPA Toxic in 2000 (Environment Canada, Health Canada 2000), which calls for substitution by environmentally acceptable substances. In the US, EPA has established new water quality criteria that would limit the volumes or amounts of NP discharged into the environment (US EPA, 2006), and is encouraging reduced use through the Safer Detergents Stewardship Initiative (SDSI). In Japan, the National Institute of Technology and Evaluation is working with industry to further promote replacement for both NP and NPEs (Japan NITE, 2004).
> 
> ...


I would really like to see where you read this that link you posted is dead. If this is true than they should be stating that somewhere on a health sheet and they dont, If this is true I dont think they would be able to get away with stating that it is 100% non toxic which they do and im alittle skeptical about this. 
I found an msds and the only ingredients in the ink is Acrylic Copolymer 50-80% Pigments 15-40% and Water and minor ingredients 1-10% are you saying they dont state a hazardous chemical on the MSDS? Lol im going over board with this but what you said has me searching for a solid concrete answer and This is all I can really find as to whether or not aqua has toxins in it, this is right off the permaset website faq. *Question* Do Permaset inks include any toxic chemicals? *Answer* No. Permaset inks do not include any toxic chemicals.


*Question* Are Permaset inks environmentally friendly? *Answer* Yes. Permaset inks are formulated to be environmentally friendly. Permaset is a water based ink which does not include any CFC’s, HCFC’s, volatile solvents or aromatic hydrocarbons and unlike other brands it is also Phthalate free.




sorry everyone for the long post but Im just trying to find out if Im being lied too by my ink supplier.


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> The short answer is that DTG depends on both parts being present. The ink acts like an epoxy when part 1 and part 2 meet (especially under heat).
> 
> If part 1 were pre-mixed with part 2, the ink would clog the heads of the inkjet.


I don't understand how this works. It's not pre-mixed, and most DTG printing on light color shirts is done without pretreatment, I believe. So if DTG depends on this reaction, how is it occurring?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

AustinJeff said:


> I don't understand how this works. It's not pre-mixed, and most DTG printing on light color shirts is done without pretreatment, I believe. So if DTG depends on this reaction, how is it occurring?


That is totally correct, on light garments there so no pretreatment, the ink is cured purely by heat and no other component. There is absolutely no chemical reaction of 2 different components.


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

sunnydayz said:


> That is totally correct, on light garments there so no pretreatment, the ink is cured purely by heat and no other component. There is absolutely no chemical reaction of 2 different components.


I asked: _Are there still issues if you are using no white ink and no pretreatment?

_Fred answered: 

_The short answer is that DTG depends on both parts being present. The ink acts like an epoxy when part 1 and part 2 meet (especially under heat). 

If part 1 were pre-mixed with part 2, the ink would clog the heads of the inkjet._


I don't see how you can both be right.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

AustinJeff said:


> I asked: _Are there still issues if you are using no white ink and no pretreatment?_
> 
> Fred answered:
> 
> ...


I have a HM1 dtg machine and I print on it everyday. On light garments I print on the blank tee with no pretreatment, just the ink and cure it in my heatpress, and its done, it does not require any type of pretreatment. The only reason pretreatment is necessary on dark garments is for the white ink to adhere to the fabric because of course you need a white underbase so the color doesnt blend into the dark garment. There is absolutely no need for 2 chemicals to mix to make the ink take on a light garment. I am not sure of this but I dont think fred does DTG printing, I could be wrong though


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> You might want to consider why the "water based ink" is flammable.


Unless I am really missing something, you are claiming that 2 chemicals need to mix for DTG inks to work, that the chemicals are not premixed in the ink, and that this occurs even without pretreatment. I don't understand how this could possibly be true. Am I missing something?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

AustinJeff said:


> Unless I am really missing something, you are claiming that 2 chemicals need to mix for DTG inks to work, that the chemicals are not premixed in the ink, and that this occurs even without pretreatment. I don't understand how this could possibly be true. Am I missing something?


There is nothing that that is premixed prior to printing, you have your ink in the printer, you put your shirt on the platen and send through the printer and it prints the ink on the shirt, then you heat press it and it is done. Anything that goes on the shirt when printing is already in the ink and that is all that goes on the shirt when printing a light colored garment. That is all there is to it.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Actually, although the MSDS sheets say the ink has a flammablility of "1" they also state many times that the ink is "nonflammable."

I think the chemical reaction Fred is reffering to is between white ink and pretreatment, thus, with improper pretreatment, the white ink will wash out horribly. Though most of what we (dtg printers) have been reffering to is printing on lights.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

But the thing that Fred still hasn't commented on is that digital is less toxic than screen printing. I would rather breathe the vapors from the curing inks than spray adhesive. Or, worse off, haze remover. Also, I still can't find anything in ANY of the Brother MSDS sheets that is not good for health. Also, they are non-flammable.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

^ Totally agree. Since Brother doesnt do darks, there is even less to worry about as well.

Also, Im still sticking with my other statement that dtg produces much much less waste than any other printing method available.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Yep, that's probably true. But remember, DTG is pretty much the same across the board. Pretty much the same inks and treatments, right?

But every screen print company does things differently. Some may use nasty haze removers, spray adhesives or mineral spirits to clean up, while others choose safer alternatives.

So it's hard to lump all screen printers into one category.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

As far as the same inks across the board, I wouldnt say that. Not to mention rumors are always flying here and there about new inks for the machines.

While it is hard and unfair to lump all screen printers into one category, I was simply saying at the end of the day, we (dtg printers) have less waste. Really we have virtually no waste whatsoever. Maybe two Q-tips, a piece of silicon paper, and....well thats about it! Oh yea, my maintanance tank, but that takes a while to fill up. Just tiny droplettes of ink soaking into a wasted t-shirt.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Yep I agree, the only waste I have is my waste ink container that holds about 8 ozs and fills up about once every 1 to 2 weeks. I am excited about the rumors of a couple of new inks that are supposed to be out soon  I looked at the show but could not find any info on them yet  I wish they would hurry.


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## belle (Sep 10, 2007)

I am also designing a new line of organic tees & plan to use a company that offers water based screen printing. Here are some companies that I've come across that offer that service:
- goza gear
- tagless threads
- grapevine apparel
- prolific 
- screen gems

good luck!


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## CritterLife (Sep 27, 2007)

Hi KingJut,

Your post got hijacked by DTG from almost the word go, so I'm sure you've been a bit confused about answers to what you thought was a good initial question!

I've been pondering the same questions for many months now... ;-) There seriously aren't that many companies doing environmentally-friendly printing. By that I mean using plastisol inks that are PVC-phthalate-free or water/vegetable-based inks that are formaldehyde-free. I haven't done any research in the UK - sorry.

Someone mentioned a company called TS Designs (they're in North Carolina here in the US). I think they're a great company - they're printing samples for me right now. They've developed a process they call REHANCE which, believe it or not, involves printing your design on a BLANK, white T-shirt, THEN dyeing the shirt to a PMS color of your choice. Yep, printing first, then dyeing it. The ink used in the design printing process prevents the fibers from accepting any additional inks when the shirt is dyed. Cool, but expensive. My printed shirts were going to start around $16 (my cost). BUT, they also do just plain water-based-ink printing on either their shirts, or shirts you provide. That's what I'm getting them to do, and their prices are very competitive.

All of their inks are PVC-, phthalate-, and formaldehyde-free.

Maybe it's worth it for you to have a chat with them. Contact Eric Henry at TS Designs ([email protected])


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

You've forgotten some important ones. 

Mantis Graphics
Vacord Screen Printing
Newell Graphics?






belle said:


> I am also designing a new line of organic tees & plan to use a company that offers water based screen printing. Here are some companies that I've come across that offer that service:
> - goza gear
> - tagless threads
> - grapevine apparel
> ...


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## SketchBox (Jan 4, 2008)

heres a thought, sure running the printers is less damaging to the enviroment but what about how they are manufactured and what happens when they go kaput, what affect does a dtg have when it is sitting in a dump? My point is what kind of harmfull materials goes into the manufacturing of these machines. Ive seen some horror stories about the chemical factories in china that produce the raw materials used in making these sorts of things. Im not bashing just expanding the conversation alittle. food for thought if you will.


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## CritterLife (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks Belle and Neato for the list of environmentally-friendly printers! These printers don't come up in a Google search (at least not for what I'm searching under), so your assistance is much-appreciated!


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

search water based screen printing


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## idressmyself (Oct 20, 2007)

We offer an eco-friendly screen printing service and use Permaset water based inks that contain no solvents at all! We work closely with the ink manufacturers and have found the inks to be extremely high quality (opaque, durable, bright colours, etc). We (I Dress Myself) are based in Nottingham, UK.


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## mookate (Jul 25, 2008)

I found this link related to the subject, doesn't really mention DTG, but thought I'd throw it in as a reference 

Continental Clothing - Printing Bamboo Jersey


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## mookate (Jul 25, 2008)

...and since I've been poking around on the internet, I thought I'd share some other links I've found on the subject of green screenprinting:

These guys have a range of non-phthalate non-pvc plastisol inks:
Plastisol Inks for Textile Screen Printing - LancerGroup.com

Lifeworks: eco-friendli(er) inks & practices, as well as msds sheets, links to green sites, etc.
Eco Friendly Inks

Here's tsd's Rehance comarison with plastisol:
tsdesigns | printing t-shirts for good


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## mookate (Jul 25, 2008)

dann said:


> That was a fantastic episode. It's about time someone called bs on global warming.


That was interesting. 

Whatever you believe about global warming is all well and good; however, you may notice that many people like to BUY stuff that is (supposedly) "green". Like T-shirts, for example. 

Isn't this the thread for people who are _interested_ in the whole "attempting-to-make-screenprinting-better-even-if-you-still-shouldn't-eat-the-ink" idea, anyway?


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## dann (May 27, 2008)

mookate said:


> That was interesting.
> 
> Whatever you believe about global warming is all well and good; however, you may notice that many people like to BUY stuff that is (supposedly) "green". Like T-shirts, for example.
> 
> Isn't this the thread for people who are _interested_ in the whole "attempting-to-make-screenprinting-better-even-if-you-still-shouldn't-eat-the-ink" idea, anyway?



I hope no one took that as me being a jerk. I just don't believe in global warming, and I thought that was a fantastic episode.

You are right. 'Green' products are hot right now, that's a fact. So a good business person should be able to accommodate.

For me, the extent of my green printing is offering organic cotton shirts, or shirts made of recycled bottles. I've yet to have anyone actually buy them though, as they're very expensive. But it's a good thing to say you can offer. "Ask about our eco-friendly shirts" is an excellent tag line for ads and brochures.


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## mookate (Jul 25, 2008)

Haha right on. The episode was definitely food for thought, either way you lean on the "religious" issue of global warming (which it does seem to be, seeing as the science is all over the place, not to mention the economic and ethical factors involved). (I like parentheses).

And Fred, I do agree that longevity is usually overlooked in the eco-friendly equation. Whether you value it for your business probably depends on whether you're aiming to be the 'keeper' shirt or the 'trendy' shirt...and I'd also agree that customer perception after a first wash is important. 

(perception is everything) (.)

Maybe one day there will be a product that can satisfy more of the desirable criteria rather than being a trade-off.


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## dyer (Jul 11, 2007)

I use permaset inks also and i love them
dyer


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ImageIt said:


> What i "feel" is lost in eco friendly printing is the longevity of the product.


It's not necessarily the case - it certainly isn't with waterbased inks for example. Waterbased screenprinting inks actually hold up better than plastisol - there's a reason plastisol is never used for soft furnishings.


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## Ecoprintworks (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi there all,

This is Peter Imai, We only use 100% Solvent Free, water-based inks from Australia - as far as we've found, the most eco-friendly ink on the market that doesn't sacrifice performance.


I'd be happy to talk.

Peter


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## Ecoprintworks (Dec 3, 2008)

Thanks for bringing it up, Fred. I'll check into it and try to have an answer in the next couple days...

As far as I've learned Permaset Aqua is solvent free, but of course, I may be mistaken.

What I do know, is that Permaset Aqua is an Oekotex Class 1 product - the highest rating given - safe enough for baby garments.


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## staned (Feb 25, 2007)

water is a solvent, natures best. and yes water base ink has some nasty stuff in it, most of which burns up in my gas convection dryer as it's forced through the flame matrix. a gas dryer is the part of the process that makes it green. all electric dryers are 50% coal fired and don't address out gassing of ink solvents and discharge processes. stan


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## Ecoprintworks (Dec 3, 2008)

You're exactly right, Stanley. What I mean by that is that our inks - Permaset Aqua - don't contain any white distillates.


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## the great enzo (Sep 21, 2008)

How do you get Permaset Aqua containing "diethylrne glycol"? Is it really a flavour enhancer? why would they put a flavour enhancer in an ink?


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

the great enzo said:


> How do you get Permaset Aqua containing "diethylrne glycol"? Is it really a flavour enhancer? why would they put a flavour enhancer in an ink?


*From Wikepedia*: DEG is used as a building block in organic synthesis, e.g. of morpholine and 1,4-dioxane. It is a solvent for nitrocellulose, resins, dyes, oils, and other organic compounds. It is a humectant for tobacco, cork, printing ink, and glue. Like ethylene glycol, a solution of diethylene glycol and water is used as a coolant. It slightly lowers the freezing point of the solution and significantly elevates its boiling point, making it more suitable for use in hot climates. It can be also found in some hydraulic fluids and brake fluids.
In personal care products (e.g. skin cream and lotions, deodorants) DEG is often replaced by selected diethylene glycol ethers.
Diethylene glycol is also illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol#cite_note-0
Sounds like it's used to slow drying in the screen.


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## idressmyself (Oct 20, 2007)

Diethylene Glycol is NOT in any of the Permaset inks and never has been. The only time it was ever mentioned in the literature was in an old MSDS (from 2006) and this was an unfortunate admin mistake. Even in the oldest formulations, DEG was never included.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

idressmyself said:


> Diethylene Glycol is NOT in any of the Permaset inks and never has been. The only time it was ever mentioned in the literature was in an old MSDS (from 2006) and this was an unfortunate admin mistake. Even in the oldest formulations, DEG was never included.


Just curious how you know? Do you work for them?


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## idressmyself (Oct 20, 2007)

I've been in touch with David Stuart, the MD of Colormaker Industries who make Permaset inks to ask him about it. 

We don't work for Colormaker but we are sponsored by them. We help test their inks and provide support to people moving across to water based inks. In return we're lucky enough to get free use of their inks. I guess we're in touch with them quite a lot.

We feel very strongly that their inks are great quality water based inks and, having met David a few times now, know that David (partly as a geeky chemist, partly as someone that worries about the state of the environment) and his team worked very hard to produce a range of inks that are (apart from water) completely solvent free.

Phew! That's my rant out of the way. Sorry.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

idressmyself said:


> I've been in touch with David Stuart, the MD of Colormaker Industries who make Permaset inks to ask him about it.
> 
> We don't work for Colormaker but we are sponsored by them. We help test their inks and provide support to people moving across to water based inks. In return we're lucky enough to get free use of their inks. I guess we're in touch with them quite a lot.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Sounds good, but does the updated MSDS show this?


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## idressmyself (Oct 20, 2007)

Yes, I think so. David only found it mentioned in the old (2006) version. I'm working at home today so can't see exactly what it says. Hope that helps!


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

idressmyself said:


> Yes, I think so. David only found it mentioned in the old (2006) version. I'm working at home today so can't check right now. Hope that helps!


Please update us when you can with the updated MSDS.


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## idressmyself (Oct 20, 2007)

Sure, will do.


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## Ecoprintworks (Dec 3, 2008)

I also spoke with David last night and he reiterated what idressmyself has said below... that Permaset Aqua has never contained DEG, and attributed it showing up in an old MSDS to an administrative error. 

You can find an updated MSDS here:

[media]http://www.ecoprintworks.com/skin1_ecoprintworks/MSDS-Permaset-Aqua-Print-Paste-3CM03.pdf[/media]


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

ImageIt said:


> If you want to rant, rant about a company which cares so little about human life and the environment, that they don't give a damn that the MSDS information they are publishing is correct!!!
> 
> Each willful act of miss information deserves $10,000-$25,000 in fines!!! A nationwide recall might also be warranted!!!
> fred



Wow Fred. That's a totally uncalled for response. Peter was simply stating the facts. Relax buddy. It's Friday. 

David Stuart is a brilliant man and chemist who does indeed care about the environment moreso than any other ink manufacturer or distributor that I've talked to. Calling someone a liar or a criminal without knowing anything about him is extremely presumptuous and haughty.


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## the great enzo (Sep 21, 2008)

Where abouts on the web-site is it? I just went in to have a look @ the Permaset web-site and could not see any MSDSs.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Closing down this thread since it doesn't seem like things can stay professional without attacks and aggressive remarks.


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