# New Dupont CMYK wash results!



## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

I do not know how many of you know that dupont reformulated their CMYK inks - most dealers are trying to sell all their old ink before announcing the new stuff.
Anyway, I have the new stuff and did some initial wash tests and they are great!
The old stuff I needed to cure for 160 seconds at 330 to get good wash results- and that is on white shirts with no white ink.
This new stuff I got I just did some initial wash tests- I cured 3 shirts for 60, 90 and 120 seconds at 330 and ALL THREE look great after 3 washes!! The old ink would look terrible after ONE wash at those settings.
I still have a lot of testing to do, but no doubt these are curing and washing way better than the old stuff and I am very confident we can get back to a 60 second cure for the Dupont inks on white shirts.
I got these from EQ Zone- Harry said they are all out the old ink and all they are selling now is the new stuff so go get some- they are very good!
-Vince


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## 4thNGoal (May 1, 2008)

Did you use pretreatment at all? What is the cost of the new ink? I am very unhappy with the results on white shirts and am torn between A) Selling my machine B) Trying the new Dupont C) Trying the inkset from DTGInks


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks so much Vince for posting  I have been waiting to see how the new ink was. Did you notice an improvement in brightness as well with the colors? I am still using the R & H but am getting low, and was wondering how the new inks would work. Thanks again for posting.


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

4THNGOAL - No I do not use pretreatment- those results were with no pretreatment and are MUCH better tahn the old junk- try them before getting rid of your machine- I am very happy with these so far.

SUNNYDAYZ- they are pretty close to the brightness of the previous version- maybe a tiny but brighter...I was OK with the brightness of the last inks, just not after washing.


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## Sunro (Apr 19, 2008)

*Very* interesting discussion! Thanks to Vince!

Is the new Dupont ink being sold with a new name (for example FastInk-4) so that we can easily differentiate new from old?

Can new and old inks be used together during the transition, so that we can use up existing supplies? Can we assume that the current pre-treatments will work with these new inks?

Will these new inks adhere to polyester? (which begs the question will there also be new white ink?)

So many questions ... Curious minds want to know 

We still have a quantity of FastInk-3 on hand, so perhaps by the time we order more there will have been a lot more testing.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

I'll try to answer some of your questions - 

"Is the new Dupont ink being sold with a new name (for example FastInk-4) so that we can easily differentiate new from old?"

With regards to FastINK, the new ink formulations are sold under the FastINK 3 name.

"Can new and old inks be used together during the transition, so that we can use up existing supplies? Can we assume that the current pre-treatments will work with these new inks?"

You can mix the inks together without any problems. The pretreatments will work with all the inks.

"Will these new inks adhere to polyester?"

They are designed to. I do have to say upfront that we have not had a chance yet to test this feature.

Harry


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh cool Harry  I had not heard that they can print to poly. That will be great if they work well as that has always been one of the limitations for the ink. Yay


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

Yes, you can use them with the old..
No they will not be renamed or anything like that- if they did no one would want the old stuff and all the dealers would be stuck with lots of ink, so it is quietly being phased in as the old gets used up, the new is just sent out- same name, same bottle etc, - so its still called fastink3 in the same bottle.
And yes, its supposedly also better on polyester but I have not tested it.
It will work with all the same old pretreatmmnets,etc -thats also why they are not telling anyone its new- you should be able to just mix it in with all your old stuff.
But to get the benefits of its washfastness, you will need to use 100% new ink not 50/50 new/old
Like I said, I know EQ Zone is shipping the new stuff (its in the same fastink3 bottles) but have no idea what other dealers are shipping...until they use up all their old ink, they willl be shipping that.


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## Sunro (Apr 19, 2008)

Well, since I'm pestering you all with questions, I may as well continue .... 

From the absence of a reply, I assume that a new white formulation is not yet available. It sure would be nice to have a white ink that doesn't require frequent stirring. For us, it would also be a real advantage to be able to print white on cotton/poly fabrics. We generally print far more dark or black garments than white or light.

Do the new inks use the same ICC profile as the old? If the profile is significantly different I can see an advantage in switching all colors at the same time time rather than mixing them in gradually as old stock is used up.

Lets hope that we don't go thru the same problems that other ink manufacturers have had lately, with inks drying quickly enough to cause print head problems.

And while I think to ask ... an unrelated question ... has Dupont ever done stability testing of FastInk which would enable us to quote archive quality numbers to customers? I ask this because we also print on several other types of media.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Who will be first to do a new Dupont CYMK vs DTGInks comparison!


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

Sunro said:


> I assume that a new white formulation is not yet available. It sure would be nice to have a white ink that doesn't require frequent stirring. For us, it would also be a real advantage to be able to print white on cotton/poly fabrics. We generally print far more dark or black garments than white or light.
> 
> Do the new inks use the same ICC profile as the old? If the profile is significantly different I can see an advantage in switching all colors at the same time time rather than mixing them in gradually as old stock is used up.



The new white ink formulation has been out for several months already. In regards to FastINK the white is labeled FastINK Brite White. It has shown a significant increase in the brightness of the white print and has reduced settling issues.

The new cmyk inks use the same profiles. They were designed to be freely mixed with the older formulation to allow gradual switching over.

Harry


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

zhenjie said:


> Who will be first to do a new Dupont CYMK vs DTGInks comparison!


I could do the wash test comparison again, but now that I am a DTGInks distributor it would be better for someone else to do it. The original test was our daughter's science fair project.

The way she set it up was to have two people print the shirts on the same style printer so the ink lay-out was the same, same RIP, same image, same cure times and process, same number of passes, same RIP and graphic program settings, same brand shirt.

At that time both inks were recommending a 60 second cure time so we went with that. Now a person could still do the 60 seconds as DTGInks has had that as their recommendation from the beginning and DuPont is back to that again I think? A person could also add the same set-up on a poly shirt as DTGInks already works on poly as well and now DuPont may also.

Printed 12 of the same image on the shirts. She cut out one image for a control. Then we washed, cut out one image and placed it in a notebook in those plastic page sleeves. Then washed again, cut out the next image and so on. 

After 11 washes, she and several others visually evaluated each sample. Then to be objective we took her to an offset printing shop and they helped us use their densitometer to read the solid CMY and K in our design on the control, the last wash, and two in between. This gave us an objective number rather than just a visual. It was quite fun and educational. I'll put in the link to the posts on the original results or comparison. Anyone game to do it now?

http://www.inkjetgarmentprinters.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4162
( I think I posted it on this forum too but I forgot where and a search didn't turn it up right away)


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## Sunro (Apr 19, 2008)

equipmentzone said:


> The new white ink formulation has been out for several months already. In regards to FastINK the white is labeled FastINK Brite White. It has shown a significant increase in the brightness of the white print and has reduced settling issues.


Thanks Harry. Good info.

We have been using BriteWhite for some time, and knew it was a relatively new formulation designed to settle a lot less, but we found it doesn't work well on polyester or cotton/poly. I was hoping that there would be a new white formulation that would work much better on poly and settle even less. I certainly understand it's not easy coming up with hi-tech inks like this, but let's hope they're working on it.


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## slamink (Oct 24, 2005)

glad to hear dupont is staying around. Also kudos to Harry and the team, they are always working on bringing new things to the table. When is E.Z. coming out with its own machine??
HHMMM a possible name with E Z PRINT?
What ever they do from here I feel they contributed to the tech side of things to help out the average printer with the stuff they already produced.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> The previous formula P5000 ink will no longer be available after the conversion to the new formula. Returns of the previous P5000 series ink will not be accepted.
> New and old formulas are chemically compatible and the P5000+ ink can be added on top of the existing P5000 ink in a printhead channel. However, it is always recommended that current users consume any remaining ink and then flush the print channel with DuPont™ F700 flushing solution prior to loading any new formula ink in their printer.
> The application guidelines for post-treatment (heat pressing) remain the same for the new formula ink. The Application Guideline (K-15831-Fusing of DuPont™ Artistri® P5000 Series Pigment Ink) has been updated to reflect the new ink series name only and is attached for your convenience.​Phase-in of the new formulations will occur over the next month. The availability dates of these new formulation products will vary by color. During this transition time, you may receive mixed orders of the old and new formula inks. Use of old and new formula inks on the same printer is acceptable. It is expected that all new formulation colors will be available by the middle of August 2008.


From a memo dated July 21, 2008 from DuPont. I beleive it answers most of the questions about the what and where.



> Fusing of DuPont™ Artistri® P5000+ Series Pigment Ink​A thermal fixation post-treatment step is required for maximum fastness and durability of the images printed with DuPont™ Artistri® P5000+ Series Pigment Ink. This fixation step may be carried out with a traditional fabric oven, a fabric calender, or a fuser press.​Recommended Conditions for Fixation of DuPont™ Artistri® P5000+ Series Pigment Ink:​*For Calender or Fuser-press Fixation:Fabric TypeFusing Temp.*Dwell Time**Pressure*Knitted cotton170C2 min10psi
> **Dwell time for calender fixation begins when the leading edge of the printed image makes contact with the heated metal drum and ends when the same leading edge breaks contact with the metal drum surface.
> ** Dwell time for oven fixation begins when the leading edge of the printed image enters the heat zone and ends when the same leading edge exits the heat zone.​For Oven Fixation:Fabric TypeFusing Temp.*Dwell Time****Knitted cotton170C2 min
> ****Equipment temperature settings should be calibrated using a thermocouple or infra-red thermometer.​*The conditions listed above are general guidelines for the fixation of DuPont™ Artistri® P5000+ Series Pigment Ink. Due to potential differences in the fabric or garment as well as potential differences in fusing equipment, these general guidelines may not be sufficient or applicable in all cases. Each customer should carry out on-site tests to identify the optimal fusing conditions for their preferred fabrics and equipment set-up.


From another release the same day regardiong fusing of the inks.

Hope this is helpful.


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks- 

So the cure time for the new DuPont ink has not changed and remains 2 minutes?

That is the first time I have seen an official cure time researched by DuPont.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> That is the first time I have seen an official cure time researched by DuPont.


Perhaps it is the first time you have seen it published, it is not the first time they have had data for distributors.


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Exactly what I meant. I had not seen it published for the general public and the distributor that sold my Flexi did not provide that information to the customers. If that information had been provided it would have probably saved a ton of frustration on the DuPont users part. I used R & H back then so it did not affect me personally.


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

Agreed...
But I have been doing more wash tests and after 5 washes all 3 of these look very good and in fact I cannot tell which one is the best:
330 temp for 120 seconds
340 temp for 70 seconds
365 temp for 50 seconds 
all with light pressure...
I did them each on a tee and each on a sweatshirt with no pretreatment...all 6 look good after 5 wash/dry cycles- I just throw them in the wash (not inside out) and wash like any idiot would do, nothing special.
I will continue washing and hopefully will see a difference in a few more washes.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

vinstr said:


> I just throw them in the wash (not inside out) and wash like any idiot would do, nothing special.


Hey, that is the way I clean my clothes! 

Good info about the new inks.


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

Thats the way I clean EVERYTHING...
I don't even know why they put any other buttons on washing machines besides the "NORMAL CYCLE" one...its always worked for this idiot.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback Vince, much appreciated. Hopefully the results stay just as good


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## FJV11 (Oct 15, 2007)

DTGinks are so much better than the old dupont. I used to toss and turn at night dreaming of fading tees... Switched to DTGinks and no t-shirt dreams since! I can't speak for the new dupont but I would recommend the DTGinks any day.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

are there any improvements on the clogging side of things with the new dupont ink ?


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## adrenaline (Aug 1, 2008)

We can only get Dupont here in Australia and they are the old ones at present and we have a fair wait for the new ones to come (maybe 6 months). I am starting to get low and want to get these new inks where and how can i get them???. I would go with DTGinks but they will never be in Australia and we have distributor for them. With Dupont they are here and we have a distributor but they have quite a few litres of thr old stuff left and will not get new ones in unitl old is gone. If anyone can help me on which way to go I would really appreciate it. I do alot of Dark shirts as well so I want to keep the same pre treat that i am doing at present. I do not want to do a complete change of methods, ICC profiles etc, Just Inks if possibble and I want to do it know as we need to be able to print on cool dry material for the gamefishing clubs. [email protected]


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

8 wash/dry cylces and still no real difference between the 6 shirts/sweatshirts...Maybe, the 340/70 shirts look a tiny bit worse, but its tough to tell...they are still look very good. I am sticking with my 365/50 settings I am using as those test shirts still look good

adrenaline
- Call equipment zone- I am sure they would ship to Australia, although not sure how much it would be...
sodrisc
- I have not had any clogging issues so far


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