# Dye Dub Inks - where to buy cheap?



## Perry (May 31, 2007)

Hey everyone , does anyone know of a source of very low cost dye sublimation inks


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Dye Dub Inks*

Not sure if this will help...BUT... As I understand it...there were three inks commonly used in USA. Sawgrass...makers of Sublijet IQ threaten lawsuits and did file..claiming patent infringement by Artanium and Rotech. Rotech pulled out of US market. I think Artanium folded and was purchased by the Sawgrass Corp.. So the two biggies in US appear to be from same Corp. But there is a company, Texas Original Graphics that did not cave in and I think they are fighting Sawgrass and were successful getting the venue moved to a Texas Court. here is a link - SUBLIMATION AT IT'S BEST will take you to Texas Original Graphics, A texas company that so far is bucking the Sawgrass machine...so far... I understand their ink is a bit cheaper, but I have never used...you might check them out


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks to our court system and the Sawgrass company their is no competition on inks. I have stopped doing sublimation for this reason.I feel our country was built on free enterprise and competition.when you remove either of these from free enterprise then you are createing a monopoly.i will now step down from my soap box and say good luck to finding cheaper prices. Good luck ....JB


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## trishtaz (Oct 16, 2006)

COEDS said:


> Thanks to our court system and the Sawgrass company their is no competition on inks. I have stopped doing sublimation for this reason.I feel our country was built on free enterprise and competition.when you remove either of these from free enterprise then you are createing a monopoly.i will now step down from my soap box and say good luck to finding cheaper prices. Good luck ....JB


OK, JB, no need to respond to my other post asking this exact question. I guess I waited a bit too long to order those TOG inks. Dang, I really didn't want to spend $700 on laser sub toner.

The patent courts have been out of control for a while now. They are more interested in protecting the interests of Big Business than fostering and protecting innovation, which was the original purpose.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Trishtaz..... what do you mean you waited long to order TOG inks? As far as I know they are still in business. I just checked their site and the only place they don't sell is in South Carolina...guess because that is where sawgrass is. Their web site gives the latest filing and court dates in their lawsuit.

As I understand it, Sawgrass filed suit in SC Then TOG filed in TX but due to some quirk in Texas laws and some conditions set in Fed Statutes when Texas joined the union, TOG was successful in getting the suit in SC transfered to TX. Of course this paragraph is based totally on info that I have heard/read and may be totally off the mark...But I do know the case in SC has been combined with the one in US Dist Court in Dallas, TX.


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## trishtaz (Oct 16, 2006)

charles95405 said:


> Trishtaz..... what do you mean you waited long to order TOG inks? As far as I know they are still in business. I just checked their site and the only place they don't sell is in South Carolina...guess because that is where sawgrass is. Their web site gives the latest filing and court dates in their lawsuit.
> 
> As I understand it, Sawgrass filed suit in SC Then TOG filed in TX but due to some quirk in Texas laws and some conditions set in Fed Statutes when Texas joined the union, TOG was successful in getting the suit in SC transfered to TX. Of course this paragraph is based totally on info that I have heard/read and may be totally off the mark...But I do know the case in SC has been combined with the one in US Dist Court in Dallas, TX.


Charles, that was my understanding also until I read JB's post above and in another thread. I e-mailed them late Friday and wasn't expecting a response until tomorrow anyway -- guess I'll see what they say. My (probably overquick) conclusion from JB's comment was that it was a recent development in the case.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Tog is still in business, but Sawgrass and the courts have run all the smaller guys out.I have heard that tog is holding thei own right now.I didn't mean to confuse you. In the past you could buy dye sub ink for half the price it is today. I used a ink that cost me less half of the goin rate and it used the reguar epson profile .Ole the good ole days ( last year ). ... JB


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Perry said:


> Hey everyone , does anyone know of a source of very low cost dye sublimation inks


Silly Perry, There's no such thing as cheap sublimation inks... thanks to Sawgrass!

$75 (or so) is the going rate for a c88 cart. That's $75 per COLOR.

Don't despair, their patents *will* expire. I hope that their company goes down in flames soon afterwards. Then gets eaten by a bear. Twice.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm glad, I'm not the only one voiceing my distates for the ability for a company to successfully monopolize a certain market . The worst part of this is our court system is aideing them to squeeze out all competition. ....JB


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

COEDS said:


> I'm glad, I'm not the only one voiceing my distates for the ability for a company to successfully monopolize a certain market . The worst part of this is our court system is aideing them to squeeze out all competition. ....JB


No, it's not that they've monopolized the market. If they have a legitimate patent and are playing by the rules I can't fault them for that. The system is purposefully designed so that companies *can* do this ... for a brief period of time.

I don't know the history of the sublimating inks and all the legal cases. If it turns out they have some overly general patents and have been using them to destroy everybody, I'd like them less. But still, that's not why I don't like them.

I don't like them for 2 reasons: 

1. They are out to screw the little guy. You know, us. I can't negotiate huge volumes to get discount prices. $300 for set of inks is ridiculous, especially given then they used to be cheaper before they shut down the competition.

2. They're arrogant pricks. Well, at least the reps I've dealt with are. If you're going to stick it to me monetarily, don't act like you're doing me a favor in doing so. It's insulting and infuriating.


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## trishtaz (Oct 16, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> No, it's not that they've monopolized the market. If they have a legitimate patent and are playing by the rules I can't fault them for that. The system is purposefully designed so that companies *can* do this ... for a brief period of time.


The patent courts don't make this distinction, but I do: there's a difference between someone who steals another's specific "recipe" and takes money that is rightfully the patentholder's, and someone who comes up with a recipe on their own that just happens to be similar. I have not read the details either, but the fact that Sawgrass is going after numerous competitors makes me suspect the latter situation. 



Moo Spot Prints said:


> They are out to screw the little guy.


I find this ironic, considering that inkjet dyesub inks are particularly attractive to the little guys who can't afford the $700 set of toners.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

just for the record....from one has done sublimation for over 7 years... the bulk system of dye sub...with about the same yield as laser toners will cost around 600+ for the six plus cartridge systems...The reason I still do dye sub is there are some things that dye sub does better...maybe pricier...but better in some areas


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## trishtaz (Oct 16, 2006)

charles95405 said:


> the bulk system of dye sub...with about the same yield as laser toners will cost around 600+ for the six plus cartridge systems...


Charles, you are correct -- I was just looking at the budget C88 system with four inks. If you are like me and just looking to dip your toe in the dyesub waters, it will only set me back $75 for the printer and $208 for the ink cartridges, considerably less than the toners (and I already own the color laser). Assuming, of course, that TOG ever e-mails me ... no answer today. Guess they are busy fighting the lawsuit.


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## Reinbow (May 21, 2007)

You guys might be interested to know that there's a company here in the Uk still bucking the Sawgrass trend! They sell 100ml for 13.98 USD. Not tried it myself,but recommended on another forum I use,by a guy who does quite a lot of business with them.
HTH
Babs
Continuous Ink


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

For trishtaz....try calling them...gets results...I called this AM and order a set of ink carts for my extra 1280...so that will let me try out their inks.

Reinbow...will the company ship to US???


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## chach3835 (May 24, 2007)

Reinbow said:


> You guys might be interested to know that there's a company here in the Uk still bucking the Sawgrass trend! They sell 100ml for 13.98 USD. Not tried it myself,but recommended on another forum I use,by a guy who does quite a lot of business with them.
> HTH
> Babs
> Continuous Ink


 
Yea but I don't think that ink is for sublimation ................or is it anyone chime in on this one.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Reference the company in the UK...continuous ink.. After looking at their website, I am pretty sure that the 'dye ink' is not dyesub ink. I sent an email to them asking for clarification..got auto response...they are closed for vacation until Aug 13th...so guess we will wait but I think it is dye pigmented ink..not dyesub


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I don't see how somebody can patent a scientific process . It's like it's Rawlings suing others from selling baseballs because they have a patent on gravity. It sound ridiculous to me. But I guess I wouldn't understand because I don't think like a lawyer (thank goodness).


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't think the patent is just on a scientific process, but on the formula of the ink itself and how it reacts to heat/pressure...I have been using dyesub for years and I do think that this process will soon be left behind with the infusion of new papers/printers/processes for cotton. I presently use dyesub for tile murals, some mugs but rarely on garments.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

charles95405 said:


> I don't think the patent is just on a scientific process, but on the formula of the ink itself and how it reacts to heat/pressure...I have been using dyesub for years and I do think that this process will soon be left behind with the infusion of new papers/printers/processes for cotton. I presently use dyesub for tile murals, some mugs but rarely on garments.


Yeah, I understand. I was just venting because I just spent over $700 on 3 bags of ink.

I don't think the process will go away very soon. About 95% of the DyeSub products I sell are garments. It is HUGE in the athletic niche which is what I specialize in right now. And they don't want cotton garments.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

What about the dyesub inks from China ?
anyone used them ? Set of 4 oz with shipping is 75.00 bucks
like this one
sublimation ink - CISS and Others - Product Catalog - Dan Yang Technology (H.K.) Co., Limited


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