# How hard is screen printing really?



## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

Hi folks!

My question is really this: if I want to give screen printing the good old fashion college try, what all equipment and supplies should I get? Let's assume I have $2000 or so. If that isn't enough, then say $3500. 

I only ask because I have a niche clothing brand. What I need printed vs the price I'd like to pay vs the hassle it seems to be for printers is leading me to doing the printing myself. 

Yes, I really make difficult orders. 1000 shirts but split between 20 designs, ink color changes, tag printing, up to 5x shirts, men shirts, women shirts, on and on. 90% of the designs are one color, one location. 

I already learned enough Illustrator and Photoshop to make my designs, so instead of being a nightmare customer I'd really like to see if screen printing is something I can learn to do well. 

(Note: I've noticed people on internet forums can be mean and pushy. I'd really just like to know what equipment or reputable starter packages I should look into without having to hear "you'll probably suck at it, don't bother." Personal stories about just starting out or clothing brands/lines would be cool too.)

Thanks in advance!
and sorry Rodney if this is in the wrong spot.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

Hi Amarie, 

Screen printing, especially single color, isn't difficult in itself. It is process and technique heavy, which means it is not something you just start doing without a little bit of practice. That said, once you get the hang of things the concern is just the time required to do each job. 

Now, since I'm not a pro I can't really tell you specifically what you'll need to turn 1000 shirts in a reasonable time. I imagine it will depend on how often you plan on turning out that many shirts as to whether major equipment purchases will pay off.

The best advise I can give you is to learn the process and stay with it.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I say anyone can learn to print if they want to. Now quality and ability to do high end printing will need some practice. Spend some time on you tube there is plenty of videos. There is a lot of steps learning curves. Screen printing classes can also be very helpful. In order to get a quality setup new you will need much more money. Now if you roam the classifieds here, Craigslist, digitsmith you can put together a ok setup for $3500. Of course this is just me option based on 5-6 years of printing starting out and upgrading several times and wasting a lot of money of some inferior equipment. You can DIY a lot of stuff in your handy at building stuff. Last line added for the Dr.


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## InkedApparel (Mar 18, 2009)

I would never say to a new printer "you'll probably suck at it, don't bother." because I was where you are 3 years ago..... but I will say screen printing is not something you just learn in a day.....

with that said there are many variables to master in the process. you can get some decent starter equipment with $3500.00 ....first one of the top of my head is silkscreeningsupplies.com, you can get a 4 color 1 station package with everything you will need to print your own shirts.

be prepared for alot of head scratching and going back to the "valuable " videos on youtube. I say "valuable" because you will weed thru the useless videos until you find the few that are worth watching....again... Ryonet has a ton of instructional videos.

GOOD LUCK !!!!!!

Inked


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## mustangFWL (Feb 27, 2012)

I am sort of in the same boat, but its a small same boat, I am still in college, but only taking a few classes, working full time as a graphic artist and wanting to start creating a life for myself. I am just getting into screen printing without knowing anything about it. When I first started looking at screen printing I really had no clue on what to do. How to burn screens, how you reuse screens, the off contact, and much, much, much more. But Now I am pretty confident in my ability to start doing simple one and 2 color prints. 

What you really need to do is look into how to's from people that have been in the business. Cat Spit Productions, LLC is a extremely helpful site. jonathan teaches everything from your brand new screen to printing a full production run of shirts. Ryonet also has good videos on youtube on how to's.

I bought a simple 200 dollar "hobby press" (now they have an upgraded press for the same price that would be amazing to have had) and watched all of the dvd's that came with the press. Printed my first shirts with the water base ink, and knew this is what I wanted to do. I did attend the ISS show in Atlantic City and it was amazing with all of the different presses and processes for printing. If there is one close to you, I would strongly suggest going.

Now I am just waiting to get my upgrades to start printing for the contract for the sports shop I have all lined up. 

So what I would suggest is to buy a simple press, one station, one or 2 colors, and a few other things. Ryonet has an really great starting packages for under 2 grand. Semi-Pro. If you wanted to spend the 3500, you can upgrade to a riley hopkins press and some more shop upgrades as well.

I hope that makes sense, its kind of where I started out/still starting out. If you have any questions or anything, pm me.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

sben763 said:


> You can DIY a lot of stuff in your handy at building stuff. Last line added for the Dr.



Hey, I thought I showed remarkable restraint this time...but thanks







. 

Working with one or two colors a DIY press could work, but I would purchase the equipment for curing just because of the stated quantities being printed. If you're going to design and print you aren't going to want to waste time with sketchy curing. I can print almost as fast with my table top pick press as I could with my rotary, but the curing stage kills me time wise.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

If it wasn't easy, I wouldn't do it.

But then I suck at it and _shouldn't_ bother.

And I'm one of the mean pushy folk to boot!


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## Alan Buffington (Oct 27, 2010)

Like any profession, you will have a long learning curve. 30 years in the biz and I learn something new everyday. You can master printing with good equipment, but you will struggle with the wrong equipment. Before you dump 3500 on equipment I'd visit a few high end print shops. You simply can't compete with an auto unless you like growing old fast. If you have a clothing line you are a merchandiser and could partner with a printer who really knows this stuff. Once you are a printer your time is consumed by, well printing. And designing your line and selling gets little time. I have done this both ways. I owned a ton of equipment, and by default a ton of overhead, and I've been a merchandiser (1 computer and capital to work with, no overhead, out of my home, which allows you creativity, lots of sales time, and when your order is due at 8 am the next day, your having a beer while your good local printer's staff is hard at work, and the money is better IMO. There is a ton of excess print capacity at print shops and often they know how to engineer the print, have a really good separator to sep your art, and get the job out on time. Partner with a printer until you have made enough to buy a shop of your own, but honestly a commercial grade shop with good autos, ovens, exposure systems are not cheap, yet just walk through the door of a good printer and you own them for the time of the print run, and not one penny more! Your margins stay intact and come winter you aren't scrambling to pay the rent on a warehouse or on equipment lease payments. If you want to be a local 2-4 color printer of groups, teams, and small companies go ahead and buy a small package, but if your goal is to start a niche clothing line, design 10 for every 1 that sells, and build a portfolio of designs and sample prints to sell from. If you have sales ability outsource, if you like being in a shop working with your hands buy a starter pack.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I will say the silver press kits are not bad. I had a 6/2 for about 6 months. The newer micros that are available look 100x better than the old. They are optional and about $100 per head. If you use a flash dryer to cure I recommend making a cure station instead of using your platen. I just preferred some of the other press Ive had and having 4 or 6 stations is a must for me but I do a lot of print and flash and with 2 or 1 stations I would have to stop and let them cool down. If I am printing as fast as I can they never get hot enough to warrant stopping with the 6 station. When I started I didn't know anything about printing although worked on designs for years but not for garments. My experience is not typical but I was able to make a film burn a screen first time. I have made thousands of PCB boards and I know that help as the techniques I used to expose boards are similar to making a screen. The printing took little to get down but I printed a 3 color job as my first job and had 140 shirts to print. Wish I had known white was hard to print and a lot of the other stuff I have learned. I also wished I had found this forum 3years earlier than I did I would have progressed a lot faster.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

When you say partner with a company, how would I convince them that it would be a good idea to print my complicated orders at a low price?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

SoAmpd said:


> When you say partner with a company, how would I convince them that it would be a good idea to print my complicated orders at a low price?


A sample picture would help. And what you expect to pay. Quality and low price do not go hand in hand. I can tell you there will not be many printers wanting to partner if it's in the sense I think. If I did this Everytime I was contacted by a designer I would be out of business.


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## MouthyShirts (Apr 11, 2012)

I also recommend: Go to Utube and check out some videos for free. $2,000 - $3500 will buy a good small conveyor dryer. A flash dryer or heat gun will work but the cure is questionable sometimes and it's a slow process. Have fun, consider used equipment to get more for your money.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

Follow the bouncing ball:

I got 1000 shirts. 26 designs. 
600 men shirts on port and company pc61 med-4x
400 women shirts on gildan 5000L sm-3x
Plus, tag printing on the inside neckline.
mostly on dark colored shirts (royal blue, red, black, dark brown).


17 of the designs were 1 color full front. 20 shirts/design

2 designs were 2 color on white shirts. 20 shirts/design

3 designs were 1 color full front. 80 shirts/design 3 ink color changes

3 designs were 1 color full front. 100 shirts/design 2 color changes

1 design was 1 color, full front and full back. 80 shirts 2 color changes 

I had a company willing to do this at $5 per shirt. 

I went to an event and sold all the brown shirts so I needed to get just those printed over again in a week and a half. I've got about 6 events scheduled and most require a different set of colors (fraternity and sorority specific). It get's complicated quickly.

My money is green and spends but I'm sure this type of thing is a headache most printers don't want for $5 a shirt.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

Amarie,

I noticed that you are located in Maryland ... have you talked to the folks at Nightmare Graphics in Columbia, MD? 

Not sure if they'd agree to take this on, but they do have a fairly large operation (3 auto presses, 5 manual presses, 2 numbering presses, automatic heat presses, 29 heads of embroidery, folding, bagging and tagging area in a 25,000 square foot facility) ... and they do contract printing.

Might be worth making a call to them.

Good luck.


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## mustangFWL (Feb 27, 2012)

Sam is a really cool guy to deal with. He is a friend of ours, and we do business with him. Mostly only runs over 500 shirts +. He might do the contract printing, but he is used to doing major runs. Although he does have a few manual presses, he might charge a higher price for the low number of shirts.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

mustangFWL said:


> Sam is a really cool guy to deal with.


I agree ... Sam might not be interested, but I thought it might be worth it for Amarie to give them a shout. You never know.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

My current printer is in Delaware but i will check them out. I'm definitely going to check out the starter packages on ryonet though. If I take the time to learn the trade I can get exactly what I want.


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## mustangFWL (Feb 27, 2012)

Yeah, I guess it would aslo depend on the time of year for him, I guess at the moment he is in his race season/baseball season. At least he was a few weeks ago. I went and toured his building and it was amazing to see what a well established screen printing operation looked like. It was inspiring really.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

mustangFWL said:


> Yeah, I guess it would aslo depend on the time of year for him, I guess at the moment he is in his race season/baseball season. At least he was a few weeks ago. I went and toured his building and it was amazing to see what a well established screen printing operation looked like. It was inspiring really.


Haha ... yep, I've done the same ... spent some time with his son Robert and took a quick tour not too long ago.

They've built quite an operation.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

For the people with the silver press from ryonet, what accessories did you opt for or wish you opted for when you ordered?


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## mustangFWL (Feb 27, 2012)

An exposure unit, and the flash cure are a must. You can get away with using a 500w light, but it taks a long time to expose screens. 

You can build pretty much everything on your own with a little elbow grease, accept the flash dryer. 

Also get the 2 station silver press, makes things go much faster


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

mustangFWL said:


> You can build pretty much everything on your own with a little elbow grease, accept the flash dryer.


What should I (attempt to) build myself?


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## mustangFWL (Feb 27, 2012)

SoAmpd said:


> What should I (attempt to) build myself?


Exposure unit, drying cabinet, washout booth, those are the major things. You can find loads of DIY's and other ideas around the site


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

Alrighty

Thanks all for the responses.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

SoAmpd said:


> For the people with the silver press from ryonet, what accessories did you opt for or wish you opted for when you ordered?


Micros, which I added 1 month later, wish I would have built exposure unit,you can build one with compression lid for $200-$250 vacuum about $400. I bought a cheap free standing shower for $99 for a washout booth I found a dryer box for $150 but I am now going to build a storage box my dryer only holds 10 screens and I like to have 20 coated and ready to go at all times. There are some really nice DIY stuff on this site espeacially some exposure units. Some look like they were built commercially


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## foot print (Jun 2, 2010)

You tube videos are great.. Just keep in mind most of those people are probably experienced screen printers..the more you print the better you get.. But the real challenge will be printing white ink, registering a multiple color design, and getting consistent results.. A really good screen printer will make it look easy and then an over confident newby grabs a squeege and the world is no longer pinky and Rosie..for me the key was to always challenge myself and set goals to always want to be better I chose quality over quantity. Being careless and wanting to be a speedy printer = sloppy works and lots of test shirts 


Sent from my iPhone using TShirtForums app


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

foot print said:


> You tube videos are great.. Just keep in mind most of those people are probably experienced screen printers..


Unless, of course, it's one of my videos


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

cyclesurgeon said:


> Unless, of course, it's one of my videos


I'll second that. Lol. Just kidding. You have some pretty impressive DIY stuff


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

cyclesurgeon said:


> Unless, of course, it's one of my videos


Doctor,

Haa-haaa!!!! I can think of at least one person who would agree to that (though it's *NOT* true).

How are DVD sales going?


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

sben763 said:


> I'll second that. Lol. Just kidding. You have some pretty impressive DIY stuff


Thanks, now if only I can learn how to use it all 

Getting back on topic though... A few DIY bits such as a press, exposure unit, and racks etc...is a great way to get your feet wet and to get a handle on the basic process of screen printing without blowing the budget and finding that you didn't buy the right equipment for high end production. If I had the $$ to start over again I would still have the table top press i just made, but I would put the money I've thrown around into a real flash unit and if I thought I was ever going to do 100 shirt quantities (which I'm not) I'd have a tunnel dryer.

Then again, building those other presses did keep me out of trouble for a long time...


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## Alan Buffington (Oct 27, 2010)

Whether you print it or your 'partner' screen printing company prints it, complexity costs money. No one, including your own print company, should attempt to get something for nothing. Kind of like going on the car lot and wanting the Porsche for a VW price. Typically you will have sampling costs, just don't sample everything. Maybe one of your best designs, but keep the others as proofs on paper to round out the collection. Consider using transfers for your project. They are a lot better nowadays than in the past. This allows you to print any quantity at a fixed cost. To get them to look 'printed' try putting a piece of t-shirt over the transfer after it has been applied and hit it again with about half the time to impart a t-shirt texture to the inks.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

That's something to think about although I've stayed away from transfers since the ink seems to crack horribly after a while.

Sben763 where are your video links?


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Amarie:

Another option for you would be to lease a shop's equipment and use it yourself during their downtime - nights and weekend's. Of course, there's a huge amount of trust and a business arrangement would have to be worked out. It's not unheard of...

If you decide you don't want to print yourself, make sure you have 3 or 4 printers that you can work with and send them business on a regular basis. You'll never know when one shop will be slammed and you'll need to get an order out. It's good to have a network. Anything within a one day ground ship from your location works great.

Good luck,

-M


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

SoAmpd said:


> That's something to think about although I've stayed away from transfers since the ink seems to crack horribly after a while.
> 
> Sben763 where are your video links?


What videos are you looking for?


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

Thank you Marshall

and Sben are there any diy videos that you made or recommend?


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd just point out that there are plenty of printers out there who can direct screen something that cracks horribly after a while. (or less )

Transfers or screen prints need to be done properly with quality materials if you expect them to last.


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## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

Im new to screen printing I have been printing for about 6 months and its just my own shirts, Im not printing for anyone else. My advise for you is IF your shirts are selling and your making money keep having a printer print. Like it was said before it is EASY to screen print but its hard to make it a really Quality product, trust me (In 6 months I probably have lost over 400$ in screw up prints not to mention time and ink cost and emulsion and so on) Now that being said I have had the time to waste. I would suggest getting the stuff that is selling printed from a printer and trying your hand at printing the shirts that you have a supply of. This will keep the money coming in and give you time to learn. I wish i had a budget of $2000 to start I had just about $800 to start. I have the ryonet 4 color 2 station silver press, 5 different plattens, I have about 35 different color inks in gallon size (brand new never opened) I also found a 5 gallon bucket of black and white ink. I have a 18X18 flash dryer, and simple work light exposer unit, and about 15 20X24 aluminum frames and 5 23X31 aluminum screens and nice stand for the press, and i scrored 2 6 foot squeeges that i can cut to size and then all the other misc. I keep a details list of what i spent and it came out to $786.52. NOW it took me about 4 months to put that all together off craigslist. (press and flash for $350) I can be done but it takes time and after 6 months actually printing im doing really good 3 color on black. I use the flash to cure, I will Print about 50 shirts and then I use large table to flash them after all the printing is done. I do all of this in my apt. in a room thats just about 18 by 15 feet. I do all my screen work in my bathroom with a yellow bulb. and I rinse out my screens in a 50 gallon tub on my back porch, then I screen all the waste water through a filter so I can feel better about dumping it down the drain. I clean the filter out let the waste dry under the flash for a few mins and then toss in the garbage. This is a long process and it takes me about 1 hour to coat and burn about 3 to 4 screens. I use a blow dryer to dry my screens due to not having a place to dry them over night. This is long I know but I never had anyone tell me much when I started out and it took me a while to find this site. I love printing myself but i also don't have a high sales. hope this helps


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Deathtricity:

Love your dedication to learning... Keep at it!

One trick I can share is to get a wet/dry vac and suck the water out of your screens rather than using a hair dryer. Much faster.

Did you know you can also order your screens already coated and ready to go? PM me if you want a contact that handles this..

Good luck,

-M


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## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

maybe i didnt say that right, i actually coat one screen at a time then dry it while i hold it and then ill coat another screen and then dry it while i hold it and so on. i do not have anywhere or enough space to let them dry horizontally so i just hold them in the position and dry them with the blow dry from the ink side. i saw a few place that i can get them coated but i actually reclaim my screen about once every 2 weeks and its would get pretty costly.


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Well, actually I meant after you reclaim the screens...not after the emulsion coating. Sorry for the confusion...

-M


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## big frank sports (Aug 7, 2008)

SoAmpd said:


> Follow the bouncing ball:
> 
> I got 1000 shirts. 26 designs.
> 600 men shirts on port and company pc61 med-4x
> ...


How big is this full front design?? That in itself may be an issue. Make sure you get equipment that CAN PRINT the sizes you want. For example: full front will require an allover platen (not cheap), huge screen (not cheap), not to mention a big scoop coater to coat the screen with emulsion. You also need to make sure that the press can handle a screen that size.

Like other people, have said, it has a big learning curve and takes time to master the basics. Just coating the screens will take at least 1 bucket of emulsion. You might want to try to work in a shop to get your feet wet and learn from them. At the same time, ask them if you can print your designs after hours.

Frank


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

How hard is it? Easy to get into, but somewhat more difficult to really shine. I think Michaelangelo mentioned on his deathbed, when he was in his 80's, that he'd only begun to master the alphabet of his craft. I think screenprinting is a bit like that, inasmuch as many who have been doing it for decades continually learn new things, which is remarkable for as simple and straightforward as screenprinting basically is. A lot of it depends on how good you want to be. If all you want is the ponytail, hipness cred, and the endless line of hot chicks waiting to drape themselves over you, well, that part is easy . . .


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

(Yaaawn) And the endless line of hot chicks is grossly overrated.

Trust me.


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