# Lawson's new DTG - any info?



## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

I see that Lawson has joined the DTG fray. They announced their printer right after SGIA Expo for some reason. Looks like it prints lights or darks and has several different size options. No integrated pretreatment (?). No news of price.

What are your thoughts? Print head?

Product is here
Manufacturers of Quality Screen and Digital Printing Equipment and Supplies - Express Jet T-Series


Matt


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Check out this video - [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq5Q247cELk&feature=player_embedded[/media]

You will find your answer in there.

Mark


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## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks Mark, though he did not give price etc. for the shirt unit ...


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

It depends on the number of heads. I think it is around 80k, but I do not remember for sure.


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## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks Marc


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## PPop (Jan 18, 2009)

Looks interesting!

Non Epson Machine. Is the UV version a completely different machine than the T-Shirt Version????


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## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

PPop Matt, 

Somewhere I heard that UV curable ink bothers people's skin, so it isn't used anymore in garment printing. But maybe they have solved that problem, THAT would make people buy!


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi,
There have been several questions asked on this Forum - here are the answers:
1) Yes, this is non-Epson printer. We are using the most advanced Ricoh Gen IV print heads in the Lawson Express-Jet Series of printers.

2) Pricing varies according to model, and since we manufacture we can design/build you exactly what you want - 
The basic Lawson Express-Jet/T Series printer is $75,000.00.

3) All of our printers use the same Ricoh Gen IV print head and are designed around the same basic design concept.

4) More videos are being posted on our web site: goexpressjet.com

5) For more information on our series of Pre-Treat automatic sprayers go to: gopretreat.com

6) For detailed design questions or for custom designs, call David at 314-382-9300.

Thanks,
David Landesman


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## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

David, 

I love Ricoh for sublimation but doesn't using a paper print head from Ricoh have the same problems as one from Epson? I'm talking about warranty problems, inks being too thick for the small jet size, etc. 

Matt


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

We do NOT use a Ricoh paper print head. Our print head is the Ricoh Gen IV - which is their industrial print head.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

David,
I was checking out the Ricoh specs online. How many "heads" does this printer use. Also, if this is Custom configurable, are there plans for spot colors or hexachrome sets to set this apart from Traditional CMYK?


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

The standard printer has 6 print heads...but remember, we can make you a custom printer if you want. We can configure a custom printer to go up to 16 print heads and yes, some can be spot colors!


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

Soooooooooo 55seconds for a approximate 12x8 image on white hmmmmmm. Doesn't seem all that fast to me.
Start at 1:33 and end at 2:34 :0/


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

We printed a 12 x 12 design at SGIA at 22 seconds!
Call me and we can discuss: 314-382-9300.
David


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

ok, I counted, it wasn't 22 secs but hey nice looking printer though. So print 1 shirt for 75K. We can print 2 shirts in 100 secs same size and it cost us $50k. Am I missing something. Love the Flexibility though, has alot of potential. I wish you luck. Will you be at USSC or ISS in AC?


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

I see you own a Brother GT-782...this is an excellent printer!

Our Lawson Express-Jet is designed more for speciality applications, larger prints (20" x 20" and 20" x 30" and 30" x 40"...and custom sizes too).

Also, our printer because of its much higher resolution (1200 x 1200) can print a larger color range (like all the shades of pink, etc.).

Thanks,

David


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

LawsonScreen said:


> I see you own a Brother GT-782...this is an excellent printer!
> 
> Our Lawson Express-Jet is designed more for speciality applications, larger prints (20" x 20" and 20" x 30" and 30" x 40"...and custom sizes too).
> 
> ...


What inks are being used in the printer?

Is it the same Dupont ink as used in the Epson based machines or is it a new product that no one has had the chance to test the cure time and wash-ability of?

I'm very curious as many new DTG printers show up claiming to have some proprietary ink source just to lock their customers in as a recurring income stream when in fact the end product is the same as their competitors.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

LawsonScreen said:


> Also, our printer because of its much higher resolution (1200 x 1200) can print a larger color range (like all the shades of pink, etc.).


Just a note, we have customers printing at 1440x1440 just as are other Epson based printers. This is why Epson heads are still great to use. The quality is hard to beat.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

David, 
Beside he fact that this printer can be configured as you say. What do you think this printer is going to bring to the industry? What is the specific benefit (as you see it) to using these 2 channel heads and the achitecture to run them?


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## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

David, 

Do you use a RIP or have you implemented a print driver ?

Matt


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

I see you are a supplier/seller - yes, all Epson-based printers can print up to 1440 x 1440, which is great. The problem with Epson-based paper printers is they are VERY SLOW, and Epson is trying to stop these conversions. You happen to sell one of the better units, made by Belquette.

The Lawson Express-Jet is in a different market - the industrial, high-speed and specialty printing market.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Hi David, yes I sell an Epson based machine, my comment wasn't intended to discredit anything you were saying. I was pointing out the fact that Epson based heads print at a higher resolution. Personally, I don't print at 1440x1440, I use 1440x720. It's much faster and the resolution is high enough that you don't notice. If I need to yield a higher resolution, the 1440x1440 does offer me that option, but it is, of course, at a slower production rate.


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## islandtees (Nov 20, 2007)

David,looks like a very robust printer,nice job.Since this is for industrial and high speed use why did you go with the 1 platten system instead of 2?Just curious.


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

Actually what you see is one of our prototypes - and yes this is a single platen printer. However, the market we are after is the specialty and custom printer market.

We anticipate that most of our printers we build will be 20" x 20" and 20" x 30" and can be either single or multiple platen machines.

We can also include up to 16 print heads...for blazing fast print speeds.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Mr.lawsonscreen

"Epson-based paper printers is they are VERY SLOW, and Epson is trying to stop these conversions"

could you explain this above quote in more detail? im more intrested in the epsons trying to stop these conversions! where was that imfo derived from? and is this a new developement?

additionally some print speeds (hard numbers) per resolution of the lawson vs epson as a comparison would be appreciated.. have you performed a test with the same image comparing print times to a mod1 or anajet? and how much faster do you say the lawson is than an anajet or mod1 printing in an equal 720 res same image?

OH!! one other thing doesnt the lawson use a paper printing head also? 
thanks in advance


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

Jeff,
1) As a person/competitor selling DTG printers/plans, I think you know already know about Epson's efforts to stop these conversions. Anyone can call Epson, or try to buy a replacement print head for a converted printer - and Epson makes it very clear that they will sell you replacement parts.

2) Again, Lawson is using an industrial print head made specifically for industrial applications - it is the Ricoh Gen IV (and this print head is NOT found in any office/paper printers anywhere in the world).

3) Yes, we have a T-Jet Blazer at our facility; this printer uses an Epson 4880 print head and we have done same design comparisons - the Lawson Express-Jet is 3 times faster! 

Anyone is free to call me to discuss any of these details or specifications. Call Lawson at 314-382-9300 and ask for David.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

LawsonScreen said:


> Jeff,
> 1) As a person/competitor selling DTG printers/plans, I think you know already know about Epson's efforts to stop these conversions. Anyone can call Epson, or try to buy a replacement print head for a converted printer - and Epson makes it very clear that they will sell you replacement parts.


David, 

First let me thank you for coming into the forum and answering our questions, we can be a tough crowd at times and to be honest somewhat skeptical of a manufacturer or distributors claims.

From the statement you made above if Epson is willing to sell us OEM parts I don't see the connection in your statement that Epson would like to stop the conversions?

Seems like an odd statement to make since it's licensed technology (from Epson), it doesn't effect their paper printer line as far as competition, it does add to their bottom line, and has really no negative impact that we can tell as far as Epsons reputation as a company.

Just wondering where the statement is coming from?


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## loloxa (Sep 5, 2007)

David What ink are you using in this machine?


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

Are you a competitor too? Seems like this forum is filled with a lot of distributors and/or sellers of equipment and supplies - and not everyone is upfront about this.

Anyway, in answer to your specific question, we use a proprietary, high-viscosity water-base ink...when printing on dark shirts, we also required the use of a pretreat solution (also a proprietary formulation).

Any interested DTG *user or prospect* should feel free to call me for more detailed information at: 314-382-9300.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

LawsonScreen said:


> Are you a competitor too? Seems like this forum is filled with a lot of distributors and/or sellers of equipment and supplies - and not everyone is upfront about this.


Hi David, I don't believe anyone is trying to be deceptive here. When you responded to my initial post, you pointed out the fact that I resell a product. Everyone here knows I resell a product and it's even in my signature line.

There is no ulterior motive on my part, nor most likely other's. We are curious as to your new machine and if there are claims being made, people want to substantiate those claims. I get drilled all the time with questions that I simply answer. In all honesty, you can have the most incredible machine on the market, and it doesn't effect me in any way. I know my customer base and if our printer fits their needs, then we work with them. If they don't, then they move on to another printer that fits their business model.

As a side note, I also sell the Lawson Pre-treaters. I don't make that claim in my signature line, but since we are being up front, I figure I should at least throw that out there.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

I wanted to point out that the AGFA Jeti/Ricoh Gen IV specs seem to point at some very high rates per square meter(on flat goods). I'm not sure how all that would relate to textile printing but it's interesting that Lawson is bringing this technology to our industry. David, can you give us any more "beef". Ill for sure check this out at my next trade show.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

LawsonScreen said:


> Are you a competitor too? Seems like this forum is filled with a lot of distributors and/or sellers of equipment and supplies - and not everyone is upfront about this.



The forum is also filled with a lot of highly trained individuals, and not your typical users, most of us are very well informed and take an interest in our machines above and beyond just the operating aspects, yes your correct there are a lot of suppliers here and for the most part like Jerid they are up front about just who they are and their intentions, on the flip side you'll also find the occasional plant that a manufacturer or distributor will try to send in to do damage control or promotion, doesn't take long to spot them and figure out their motives.

I think you'll find that most of us here on TSF are not your average users, at least not in the conventional sense.


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## MattYR (Oct 16, 2009)

Agreed. I just read through a 200 page user's manual for one machine I am considering, and I'm about to read through a 150 page manual for the other machine I'm considering. That's where we're coming from -

Matt


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

LawsonScreen said:


> Jeff,
> 1) As a person/competitor selling DTG printers/plans, I think you know already know about Epson's efforts to stop these conversions. Anyone can call Epson, or try to buy a replacement print head for a converted printer - and Epson makes it very clear that they will sell you replacement parts.
> 
> 2) Again, Lawson is using an industrial print head made specifically for industrial applications - it is the Ricoh Gen IV (and this print head is NOT found in any office/paper printers anywhere in the world).
> ...


Hey david thanks for the info...

1.) as far as a reseller/competitor i am not.. i supplied all my info for free in the diy section of the forums.. future plans may differ however.. i actually called epson regarding the conversions wondering if a license was needed, they made no mention of one required or any effort to stop conversions.. they said simply that they did not support dtg and it would void warranty..lol

2. again thanks for the print head info!!!!

3.) i beleive you know as well as i do, that there are way faster machines than your test model... but interresting for sure.. i would like to see the time comparisons for the better epson machines..

i love the large print area of your machine, and the higher resolution capability compared to machines in its price range -class...

best wishes..


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## DTG Digital (Oct 8, 2007)

I saw this EXACT machine at a factory in China months back- It was also shown at the Shanghai digital show earlier this year for less than $30k- will be interesting to see which other companies claim they build them all by themselves!! 

How this can be $60k plus when the Mimaki UV which is gen4 is only @$30k beats me


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

For the same reason why their pretreat machine is $7-8k but doesn't have the sophistication of The Viper.
Trust my I've seen a few pretreat machines and the Viper (I believe) is the most advance out there. Anyways I get the feeling Lawson just has a habit of overpricing things. JMHO 
Like I stated earlier 60k to print 1 shirt ? Me never!!!!

Don't forget Melco builts their own Melcojet too lol

I just hope things don't keep happening this way if its true. I love to see smart enginuity not just rebuilts and knock offs. This is not a jab just making my point.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

DTG Digital said:


> I saw this EXACT machine at a factory in China months back- It was also shown at the Shanghai digital show earlier this year for less than $30k- will be interesting to see which other companies claim they build them all by themselves!!
> 
> How this can be $60k plus when the Mimaki UV which is gen4 is only @$30k beats me


Steve .....did it have the Ricoh print heads also? I know your saying it's a gen 4 , Lawson seems to be saying no one else is using this head with textile ink...well kinda' saying that.


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

Realize the wording carefully. They maybe the only one using it with textile ink not necessarily the actual printhead.

Man I feel bad for Lawson . The guy tries to promote a product and we go at em lol .mean this in fun


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

WholesalePrint said:


> Realize the wording carefully. They maybe the only one using it with textile ink not necessarily the actual printhead.
> 
> Man I feel bad for Lawson . The guy tries to promote a product and we go at em lol .mean this in fun


Angel,

Not trying to be mean...just get the facts straight, we all know what happens when a manufacturer or distributor comes here on TSF to promote a product it gets dissected and discussed, I tried to tell him we were a tough crowd and not your average users.

It's very hard to BS people here...


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I agree, I don't think anyone can really look at what was being asked and discussed and state anyone was being mean. It was more inquisitive than anything.


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## LawsonScreen (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi Interested "DTG" people,

I'm reading the threads, and find it interesting how Lawson is being characterized. I'm not taking it personally, but would like to be very clear on a few items:

1) I am not here "promoting" our equipment - I've been simply answering questions very directly (at least this has been my intention and effort);

2) To the best of my knowledge, Lawson is the first company using the Ricoh Gen IV print head for DTG use ...not the first to use it for printing roll-to-roll fabric.

3) I do understand there are many very smart people on this forum - some of whom have "hidden agendas" and a few who basically "misrepresent" themselves. This is a fact - enough said.

4) Regarding the comment of why would a company spend so much money for a printer that would only print a single shirt at a time?: There are many reasons, including speed, print area, cost of ink, warranty, support and many other reasons. I invite anyone to *call me* (314-382-9300) to discuss the "why" issue. I understand our printer is not a "mass-market" printer and will be attractive to a smaller group of users.

5) Remember, our specialty is offering the Express-Jet to customers who want something different - like a larger print area, specialized platens, special configurations, spot colors, or integration needs...Call me, make an appointment to see our factory in St. Louis and discuss your special needs or dream printer, and we will make it for you (competitors excluded). That's right, we will make it for you, in our factory and in St. Louis.

6) I notice that Brother and Kornit are "missing" from this forum. Why? I am here participating and answering questions.

7) If anyone is serious about buying a high-end, industrial or specialized printer, please call me (314-382-9300) - get the facts, from me directly, and then judge for yourself. 

8) Regarding the comment about Lawson vs. Mimaki: here are 3 huge differences: 1) our print area is much larger; 2) we use twice as many print heads; and 3) our ink is 1/2 the price! For these and many other reasons, is why the Lawson is more expensive.

9) There are many good machines in the marketplace - Lawson does not the only one, or necessarily the "best" one. We are simply here to design and build custom ink jet printers (water-base, Led/UV and UV) and we know the traditional screen print market as well - and can frequently integrate in ways other companies can not. It's that simple.

David Landesman
Lawson Screen & Digital Products, Inc.
St. Louis, MO USA


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

WholesalePrint said:


> JMHO
> Like I stated earlier 60k to print 1 shirt ? Me never!!!!


Isn't your Brother 50+ k?


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Isn't your Brother 50+ k?


And wasn't Printzilla's 782 by the time it was said and done in the $60k range? $60k for a production machine doesn't seem unreasonable to me, if you have the business the ROI wouldn't be that bad.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

LawsonScreen said:


> Also, our printer because of its much higher resolution (1200 x 1200) can print a larger color range (like all the shades of pink, etc.).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David


Does the standard config include more than CMYK+W. When you say "all the shades" have you expanded the gamut by using these heads and your brand of ink, or are you saying that you use true resolution rather than interpolated voodoo like most printers use. You are correct, this is a tough crowd 

I must add that I've purchased many items through the years from your company and I wish you luck and success in the wild west. If you can offer us significant speed improvement along with quality and reliability, there is no reason why it should not happen


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

IYFGraphics said:


> And wasn't Printzilla's 782 by the time it was said and done in the $60k range? $60k for a production machine doesn't seem unreasonable to me, if you have the business the ROI wouldn't be that bad.


I think the point of difference is the double platen feature of the GT-782.

Unless there is a way to pre-load the Lawson platens off the machine; there will be a slow down in production waiting to load the single platen each time.

skdave's Little Sister System for the GT-541 allows additional platens to be loaded while the printer is running which is what increases the overall productivity of the machine.

Now it is possible that the Lawson prints so fast that it will lap the double platen Kornit and Brother printers but that has yet to be seen.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

raise said:


> I think the point of difference is the double platen feature of the GT-782.
> 
> Unless there is a way to pre-load the Lawson platens off the machine; there will be a slow down in production waiting to load the single platen each time.
> 
> ...


 
I inquired about the speed comparisons vs. epson machines with the same image a few posts back.. Mr Lawsons reply to speed comparisons vs espon based was that they had tested it and its 3x faster than the t-jet blazer

I visted the site for the printer on there website it lists the times for cmyk between 30-50 seconds and white at 1-3 minutes www.LawsonSP.com - Express Jet T-Series so it is not faster than the better epson machines by any means according to there own time per print description!! the advantage it has is the larger print area!


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## DTG Digital (Oct 8, 2007)

IYFGraphics said:


> Steve .....did it have the Ricoh print heads also? I know your saying it's a gen 4 , Lawson seems to be saying no one else is using this head with textile ink...well kinda' saying that.


 
It does have the same heads in fact the manufacturer in China who makes this machine uses Konica Minolta or Ricoh Gen 3 or Gen 4 heads. There kind of an IKEA model where you can choose heads etc and either build your own mechanical device or buy the finished unit from them as Lawson has.There is already a number of distributors selling it under different labels in Asia and Europe.

This isnt the only Ricoh head used for DTG app's there are two in China and one in Spain that is pretty funky with pre treat inbuilt similar to Kornit and one also in the US that is pretty much the same size but with UV. The Spanish and US machines are being built on there home terf.Theres also about 6 models that are roll fabric printers as well.

The inks have to be approved (jet reliability)by Ricoh and two other brands inc DuPont have been approved so far -but they are not the same inks as whats used in the Epsons.

You can pretty much safely bet that most of the DTG builders are currently playing with Ricoh or Industrial heads as well. 2011 will be interesting with I know of 8 more that are in R&D now. But not all will make it.

We have since 2006 been selling OEM datapath and firmware for these heads for integrators so we get a lot of enquiries about people wanting to build Industrial head DTG's. But in truth most get a development kit and never get past first base.

Its great to see the development being pushed i can see lower priced machines and a range of industrial machines coming out over the next 24months that will raise the bar for us manufacturers


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

german13 said:


> "..........website it lists the times for cmyk between 30-50 seconds and white at 1-3 minutes www.LawsonSP.com - Express Jet T-Series so it is not faster than the better epson machines by any means according to there own time per print description!! the advantage it has is the larger print area!


You kind of have to compare size to size. We've been down this road before .

I did see on the AGFA site that these heads (in a 48X2 configuration) will cover 600 Square feet per hour at 1200 DPI. Now That's not textile printing, so that needs to be scaled to account for higher ink usage over a small area.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

DTG Digital said:


> It does have the same heads in fact the manufacturer in China who makes this machine uses Konica Minolta or Ricoh Gen 3 or Gen 4 heads. There kind of an IKEA model where you can choose heads etc and either build your own mechanical device or buy the finished unit from them as Lawson has.There is already a number of distributors selling it under different labels in Asia and Europe.


Thank you Steve....very enlightening.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

raise said:


> I think the point of difference is the double platen feature of the GT-782.
> 
> Unless there is a way to pre-load the Lawson platens off the machine; there will be a slow down in production waiting to load the single platen each time.
> 
> ...


Agreed, but since David said they could build what ever configuration someone would need I wonder at what price point a dual platen machine would be? in the 951 price range?

Be interesting to know.


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## Robert72 (Aug 12, 2006)

DTG Digital said:


> and one in Spain that is pretty funky with pre treat inbuilt similar to Kornit


er... could you name it?


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