# Vinyl Cutter Optical Eye - Cutting NON-Opaque Transfers



## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

As we look more into purchasing a vinyl cutter, the concept of being able to have the cutter cut our transfers for us sounded like a grand idea - it would save 2-3 minutes per t-shirt! My hopes were quickly dashed, however, when I found out that it normally had to be a two-ply material to be cut properly without damaging the blade (opaque transfers are; normal heat transfers are NOT.)

I've noticed two methods mentioned very briefly, and I'd like more information on the possibilities available for cutting normal transfers with a vinyl cutter. I saw one mention of some sort of mylar film you can coat the transfer with to make it 2-ply and thus safely cuttable, and I also saw mention of a special 'cutting mat' that assumedly didn't damage the blade when cutting a normal transfer. Any more details about these processes (and any other that will work for what I'm trying to do) would be appreciated =)


(Currently I'm considering either the Graphtec CE3000Mk2 or the Roland GX-24; probably a seperate post asking to compare pros/cons of those machines after I get this piece sorted out first)


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Hummm...I thought most printer transfer were two ply with the exception of dye sub. Isnt a digital print transfer the paper you peel away after press and the layer that actually goes onto the shirt?


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## bac (Jun 19, 2006)

Twinge said:


> I've noticed two methods mentioned very briefly, and I'd like more information on the possibilities available for cutting normal transfers with a vinyl cutter. I saw one mention of some sort of mylar film you can coat the transfer with to make it 2-ply and thus safely cuttable, and I also saw mention of a special 'cutting mat' that assumedly didn't damage the blade when cutting a normal transfer. Any more details about these processes (and any other that will work for what I'm trying to do) would be appreciated =)


I also would be very interested in these methods. I'd love to be able to cut out transfers for light shirts with my cutter!  

... Brad


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Hummm...I thought most printer transfer were two ply with the exception of dye sub. Isnt a digital print transfer the paper you peel away after press and the layer that actually goes onto the shirt?


Nope - that is only true for opaque transfers, which are made for darker shirts. They have a far more rubbery hand than a good light transfer and don't last as long. We don't use any opaques, as we just didn't like the quality of them at all.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Twinge said:


> Nope - that is only true for opaque transfers, which are made for darker shirts. They have a far more rubbery hand than a good light transfer and don't last as long. We don't use any opaques, as we just didn't like the quality of them at all.


Well I learned something new...so no peeling with a regular transfer the whole thing goes on the shirt.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Well I learned something new...so no peeling with a regular transfer the whole thing goes on the shirt.


Correct. Which is normally a good thing; this being the exception :/


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Well in this case too much isnt a good thing!!!!


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## mrtoad (Oct 20, 2006)

I was looking to purchase a vinyl cutter to do this as well so I am dissapointed that you can't cut regular transfers. I am just tagging on here hoping somebody gives you an answer.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I thought I remember a thread about being about to cut regular transfers with an optical cutter. Hmm, maybe Josh will know when he comes back.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I thought I remember a thread about being about to cut regular transfers with an optical cutter. Hmm, maybe Josh will know when he comes back.


I think it was Josh that mentioned the mylar film solution, but he didn't really elaborate. I forgot who it was that mentioned the special cutting mat. There's gotta be a reasonable way to do this; the trick is finding someone that happens to KNOW


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

Here is the comment from Josh

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/showthread.php?t=3659&highlight=mylar

One other thing to remember if you want to print and cut with the GX-24. Your printout must include 3 registration dots on the page. The picture must not cross into the gutter between the dots. That means you loose a couple inches of your paper. If you need an 8.5" by 11" finished cut, you have to start with an 11"x17" sheet.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

John S said:


> One other thing to remember if you want to print and cut with the GX-24. Your printout must include 3 registration dots on the page. The picture must not cross into the gutter between the dots. That means you loose a couple inches of your paper. If you need an 8.5" by 11" finished cut, you have to start with an 11"x17" sheet.


Drat! Another fly in the ointment. Do you know if this is true for all cutters (such as the Graphtec CE3000Mk2 I am also considering) or if it's specific to the GX-24? We are only using 8.5x11 transfers; while this is big enough for most of our designs, we do generally use the whole page (or at least the majority of it), so we don't have room for more than a small (1/4 inch or so) margin.


I wonder if there's a way that you could just simply attach the transfer effectively to another, larger sheet of paper, which would theoretically both make it big enough to register correctly and give you a 2nd layer that could be cut down to? Still haven't had a chance to see a cutter in action yet, but it _seems_ like something to this efect might work?


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

I can only speak for the GX-24. 
Roland has a support bulletin (pdf) that walks you through the print/cut process. 

Search Roland support for RASD-SB00020

You can do the print/cut directly from Rolands CutStudio (PC), or with a plug in, older versions of CorelDraw 9-11 (NOT X3) and Illustrator CS1 on a Mac.

You create the outline path, the software drops 3- 10mm dots on the page, you print with the dots, then load into the GX-24. You send the same file to cut, the GX-24 searches for the dots and when they are located, it cuts your outline. It is very slick. 

I'm also cutting heat transfer vinyl and truck lettering for extra sources of income.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Everyone is correct that you need a 2-ply transfer paper or attach a carrier sheet to the transfer paper in order for the cutter to grip one ply and cut the other ply. However, ImageJet Lite II is a light color transfer paper that is 2-ply (1 ply is the polymer and the 2nd ply is the paper backing that you peel after pressing). I am not sure if other distributors sell this product under a different name, but you can get this product from The Paper Ranch (877-777-2624 or www.thepaperranch.com) in the U.S.. Ask for Sean as he is guru on print-cut at most of the tradeshows for them. Hope this helps.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

DAGuide said:


> ImageJet Lite II is a light color transfer paper that is 2-ply I am not sure if other distributors sell this product under a different name, but you can get this product from The Paper Ranch...


Nice post DAGuide. I got a batch of ImageJet Lite II from The Paper Ranch (good company). The paper has a red grid on the back. I think it is the same paper sold by New Milford in their "kitchen sink" pack.

I didn't realize that the plys could be seperated. I put a knife to it and it does peel apart. The only issue may be getting the pressure of the cutter blade dialed in to make a clean cut of the transfer but not go through the paper. Most of the other products I cut have a thicker paper or mylar backing. I will give it a try when my schedule slows down a bit.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

The downforce pressure is 70 grams for ImageJet Lite II Paper. Some people like 80 grams, but 70 grams has worked fine for me. Increase it 10 grams for the ImageJet Dark II paper. 

The best way to test to see if the transfer paper is 2-ply is to try and gentle tear the paper in a corner. The paper backing should tear before the polymer will tear. If so, it is 2-ply. Otherwise, you will need a carrier sheet. 

Hope this helps.

Mark


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

As for the Registration Marks on the Roland GX-24 Cutter, you can adjust them based on the size of the paper. Go into the Printer Setup screen and click on the button for "Set up the printer". For the paper size, go to size of the paper and click on User Defined and click okay. This will allow you to type in exactly the location of the registration marks. Keep in mind that the marks still need to fit completely on your paper. Depending on what printer you have, you might have to trick the printer if it can automatically detect the size of the paper (i.e. Epson 4000 and 4800 has this function and it sucks). Hope this helps.

Mark


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## taurusndixie (Aug 6, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the info, I too have been wondering how to cut out transfers with my Roland GX-24.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

DAGuide said:


> Everyone is correct that you need a 2-ply transfer paper or attach a carrier sheet to the transfer paper in order for the cutter to grip one ply and cut the other ply. However, ImageJet Lite II is a light color transfer paper that is 2-ply (1 ply is the polymer and the 2nd ply is the paper backing that you peel after pressing).


Thanks for the details. However, I would rather not switch to a different type of paper if I can help it. I am already satisfied with the quality of the Magic Jet/Transjet II paper.



DAGuide said:


> Otherwise, you will need a carrier sheet.


What exactly will work as a carrier sheet? From the descriptions of what constitutes a 2-ply material, it seems like it should work if I just print an 8.5x11 transfer and then tape it on to some thick paper/cardstock and cut it on top of that. If this will work, that small extra step is still a lot nicer than the time (and hand cramps) it takes to manually cut the transfers.

If this will _not_ work, could you explain why not or what other methods might work? Thanks.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I am not 100% sure that taping the transfer sheet to a second piece of paper will or will not work. The potential issue that might come up is that the second sheet of paper might not be sturdy enough and still flexible to go through the cutter. You might want to try some card stock. You are also going to have to be careful that the center of the transfer sheet stays tight to the card stock of a pocket might form and you could tear the transfer sheet rather than cut it. Ultimately, the only way to find out is to try. If this does not work, then try to find something similar to a carrier sheet (i.e. is fairly strudy and has a removable adhesive covering it. You might want to see if you can use the carrier from the vinyl you use. Good luck.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

Twinge said:


> What exactly will work as a carrier sheet?


I just talked with Josh at Imprintables. They have a low tack Mylar mask called "Solution Mask" that is not on the web site yet. It comes in 24" x 10 yd rolls and costs about $20. 
You would stick it to the back of the paper you have printed with Roland's registration dots, then load it in the cutter and cut, weed off the cut paper you don't want and press it. The mask can stay on while pressing.

I have a roll on the way, we will see how it works.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

I just retested to double check myself, and it works perfectly. You'll need to set your downforce to about 110 grams. The cool thing about this process is that it will also help you when you are hot peeling the backing sheet. The mask is aggressive enough to pull the backing sheet away from the printed film with one easy step. No more burning your fingers


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Promising. A few more questions on this mylar material:

How tightly can I fit transfers on the roll? Can I put them nearly edge to edge and get about 84 8.5"x11" transfers per roll, or do they need to be spaced out more where I could only fit maybe 48?

What options/restrictions do I have when cutting the image? I assume the design would still need to be vectorized to some extent to be cut properly, and then have the registration marks printed as well. I'd like to only cut around the outside edge of the image in some cases, because the insides are too intricate and would require too much weeding when the wax window isn't a problem anyway. I'm guessing that, if nothing else, I could make a basic vector outline of the design and just tell it to cut that, but I'd like some confirmation on that idea if possible =)


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Twinge,

I will Josh answer the questions about the carrier roll. As far as the software, you can print your registration marks whether it is a vector or rastor image. Once you have your design, you can create / adjust your contour cutting lines by sliding the Image Outline Density tool. For example, you can have a full color image of a tiger's face. If you move the density tool to the left, it is going to want to try and cut out every color (including slight color or shading changes). But if you move the tool to the right, the preview window will darken up the graphic and start to remove the additional cut lines. You then click the extract contour lines button and it creates the cut lines on the graphic. In some cases, you will need to clean the inside of the graphic up to remove some of the cut lines that were not remove by the tool. It is very easy to remove this lines (left click hold down and drag over the nodes you want to remove and click delete). 

You also have the ability to remove, add and change nodes. I have been told that you can do what you are talking about in Corel (I forgot what they called it), but I work in PhotoShop and have no clue about that technique. 

I would be interesting in knowing what level of tack or adhesive that the carrier sheet has and whether you can reuse it multiple times since you are not cutting through the mylar. I doubt that you would get more than 2-3 uses if possible at all, but it could change your estimation of the number of transfers you can get out of one roll.


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## mrtoad (Oct 20, 2006)

Does anybody know about the Graphtec CE3000 24" cutter? It was recommended over the Roland but was not sure. Can it do what you are talking about?

thanks,
Mike


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I went to SignWarehouse and read up on this cutter. I did not see anywhere that this cutter has an optical registration eye / function. So unless I missed this, it will not do the print-cut function as easily. However, this cutter does has more downforce pressure (300g) compared to the Roland (250g).


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## mrtoad (Oct 20, 2006)

DAGuide said:


> I went to SignWarehouse and read up on this cutter. I did not see anywhere that this cutter has an optical registration eye / function. So unless I missed this, it will not do the print-cut function as easily. However, this cutter does has more downforce pressure (300g) compared to the Roland (250g).


The rep I spoke to at Signwarehouse said it does have it but i am going on his word. He said they sell about 10 of those to every 1 of the Roland. But I am clueless, I really don't know anything about them but wish I did.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

Twinge said:


> How tightly can I fit transfers on the roll? Can I put them nearly edge to edge and get about 84 8.5"x11" transfers per roll, or do they need to be spaced out more where I could only fit maybe 48?
> What options/restrictions do I have when cutting the image? I assume the design would still need to be vectorized to some extent to be cut properly, and then have the registration marks printed as well.


The Roland print/cut flow in english: (sort of... )

1. Prepare your 'picture'. This can be a photo or a vector drawn image or both. (ie Place a photo in Illustrator and add text/graphics)

2. Bring your 'picture' into Roland's CutStudio or open the plug-in with the old versions of Corel or Ill. CS.

3. Make a cut path. (See DAGuides nice post above) or create one by hand. You need a hairline path for your cutter to follow.

4. Click a button to add the 3 registration dots. (I cut from Ill. CS and get 3 dots, the documentation shows 4 dots.) Adjust the size/placement of the dots for the paper size you are using. The dots must not be on the very edge of the paper (esp. the back left dot, the cutter will spit the paper out on the floor when it is looking for the dot that was to close to the back edge. Don't ask how I know about that. )
Your 'picture' must be inside the dots, no cheating is allowed, thus if you need an 8 x 10 finished cut design, you must start with a larger transfer sheet.

5. Send the 'picture' to the color printer from CutStudio/plug-in. It will print with the dots, but not the cut line.

6. This is where you would stick the printed pages on the mylar. I think you could butt them edge to edge. The only thing you must do is put them in the same orientation as when they were printed. 2 dots to the front, the third dot to the left back of the cutter. You could load several of the same 'picture' on a strip of mylar. It might get confusing if you were trying to do 3 different jobs at the same time. 
Side Note: You may be able to get more usable image area by moving your dots closer to the edge of the paper and use a larger sheet of mylar. The cutter needs to grip the paper and still see the dots inside the grip rollers. Just a thought. I will try it when I get a chance.

7. Load the mylar/transfers into the cutter. Put the cutter near the front left dot. Send the cut path from your computer. The cutter does a little dance and looks for the dots. When it finds the first dot, it has a good idea were the other dots are located. It will adjust the cut for the page loaded a little slanted. 
When it finishes the cut, you will need to move the cut head to the next picture's registration dot and then send the cut file again. Repeat until you run out of pictures.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it helps.


BTW Imprintables is selling off a few GX-24 demo models. Look in the T-shirt classifieds for info.


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## dariel89 (Oct 7, 2006)

There is a vinyl cutter called Craft Robo made by Graphtec. Is a desktop vynil cutter that has a registration sensor. When you print using you desktop printer it leaves registration marks that are then recognize by the sensor in the Craft Robo.
Then it cuts the image around it. Some information I have found says that it can be use for heat transfers. 

This is a link with some information
http://www.signwarehouse.com/cutters/gr/gr_robo.html


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

mrtoad said:


> Does anybody know about the Graphtec CE3000 24" cutter? It was recommended over the Roland but was not sure. Can it do what you are talking about?


It does have an optical eye. They don't seem to advertise this as much for some reason. It should be a good cutter choice; it was the original cutter I had decided on a few months back when I thought we were getting one then - and I liked it's features even when I wasn't looking for an optical eye =)

Now I'm trying to decide between it and the Roland GX-24 - both should work very well and last a long time.



Righteo, that gives me a bit of a better idea of the process. Hopefully Josh will be able to chime in as to how dense I can pack the mylar and if it's reuseable (hadn't even thought of that).


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

> Promising. A few more questions on this mylar material:
> 
> How tightly can I fit transfers on the roll? Can I put them nearly edge to edge and get about 84 8.5"x11" transfers per roll, or do they need to be spaced out more where I could only fit maybe 48?


In order for any optic eye cutter to cut accurately after reading the registration points, the images have to be exactly at the X,Y coordinates that they are on the screen. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you would be able to fit as many as you want on a roll of mask material, but would have to cut the pages apart & feed each sheet through individually. The reason for this is because it would be virtually impossible to place the printed sheets on the masking material perfectly to feed it through as a roll. However, if you have the ability to source your transfer paper by the roll (We carry the Jet II like this), and you have the ability to print a roll of material, then you could mask everything and feed it through as a continuous roll.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

mrtoad said:


> The rep I spoke to at Signwarehouse said it does have it but i am going on his word. He said they sell about 10 of those to every 1 of the Roland. But I am clueless, I really don't know anything about them but wish I did.


He's probably more educated on that unit than the Roland. However, i do know that the Craft Robo (Graphtec) does not have the easy trace functionality that the Roland Cut Studio offers. I believe, all vectorization of graphics needs to be done in an outside software such as CorelDRAW or Illustrator.

In response to Mark & Twinge, you cannot reuse the mylar carrier, because the tack is too aggressive and holds the paper backing from the paper. You should estimate about an extra 25 cents in cost per 8.5 x 11" sheet, because you can effectively fit 8 sheets per yard of mylar. The mylar is $2.00 p/yd.


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## mrtoad (Oct 20, 2006)

JoshEllsworth said:


> He's probably more educated on that unit than the Roland. However, i do know that the Craft Robo (Graphtec) does not have the easy trace functionality that the Roland Cut Studio offers. I believe, all vectorization of graphics needs to be done in an outside software such as CorelDRAW or Illustrator.
> 
> In response to Mark & Twinge, you cannot reuse the mylar carrier, because the tack is too aggressive and holds the paper backing from the paper. You should estimate about an extra 25 cents in cost per 8.5 x 11" sheet, because you can effectively fit 8 sheets per yard of mylar. The mylar is $2.00 p/yd.


OK, so with Roland it would automatically trace the graphic? I had originally wanted the 15" Roland Stika but he said that the way it cut was different and would leave a jaggy edge rather than a smooth cut because it could only go left and right or up and down. Do you know if that is true or not? That is more in budget but if it will look bad it won't work for me.

Thanks,
Mike


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

mrtoad said:


> OK, so with Roland it would automatically trace the graphic? I had originally wanted the 15" Roland Stika but he said that the way it cut was different and would leave a jaggy edge rather than a smooth cut because it could only go left and right or up and down. Do you know if that is true or not? That is more in budget but if it will look bad it won't work for me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


I think the major advantage of the 24" cutter over the 15" Stika is the optical eye auto registration for trimming the transfers. With the Stika, its a manual registration, which is a little less accurate and takes more time in production. I would highly recommend, saving for the 24", there are a lot of advantages, speed, versatility and the like.


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