# Can 52% Viscose 48% poly be dye subbed?



## MrRudeDog (Aug 24, 2010)

Hello all,

Has anyone had success with fabric containing viscose? I had never heard of it until today, and I understand that is a combination of man-made and natural fibers.

The shirts I'm looking at are 52% viscose, 48% poly.

Thanks,
Ray


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Sublimation requires 100% polyester in white or very light pastel.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

lben said:


> Sublimation requires 100% polyester in white or very light pastel.


Not really an accurate statement. There are all sorts of non poly fabric that can be printed upon. Lycra, Spandex, nylon, etc. 

If you have never used a fabric before, even 100% poly, you will never know the quality of print unless you get a test swatch to print upon. 

As stated above there are 100% polys that do not print well.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Sublimation requires polyester. It will only work with polyester. If other fabrics are involved the dye will not stick to them. Sublimation is a specific printing process. You can put heat transfers on just about any kind of fabric, but not sublimation. From everything that I've learned about sublimation I have never heard of other fabrics working with it. And the process is limited to light or white colored polyester material.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

lben said:


> Sublimation requires polyester. It will only work with polyester. If other fabrics are involved the dye will not stick to them. Sublimation is a specific printing process. You can put heat transfers on just about any kind of fabric, but not sublimation. From everything that I've learned about sublimation I have never heard of other fabrics working with it. And the process is limited to light or white colored polyester material.


I'm pretty sure Mark (Riderz) knows what he's talking about when it comes to sublimating apparel and fabric (Dye Sub is one of his primary businesses if I'm not mistaken). Just because you "have never heard of other fabrics working with it" doesn't mean it's not possible. Your information is mostly accurate, white or light colored polyester is the primary fabric used, however, there are a few exceptions as Mark pointed out. In fact, I have seen some examples that use a blend (80 poly / 20 cotton) to produced a weathered or washed-out look. You are correct that the ink/vapor only fuses to the poly fibers in an example like this one. Dye sub would never work on 100% cotton.


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## Reinbow (May 21, 2007)

Ray, not sure I'd use viscose for anything to be honest, it's not a very nice fabric, has a low melt point I think - and creases like the devil.
You 'can' use a mix with at least 50% polyester, but as Loretta says, the dye will only stick to the polyester, so you will get a faded look to your garment.

Actually, Riderz ready, lycra & Spandex are not fabrics, but brand names for a very fine filament woven/knitted into other fabrics, hence you get cotton/lycra,nylon/lycra etc. Lycra is the trade name in the UK and Spandex in the US I believe


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I've been doing dye sublimation for 4 years. It is my primary business. too.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

Reinbow said:


> Actually, Riderz ready, lycra & Spandex are not fabrics, but brand names for a very fine filament woven/knitted into other fabrics, hence you get cotton/lycra,nylon/lycra etc. Lycra is the trade name in the UK and Spandex in the US I believe


True ... Spandex and Lycra are brand names for the man-made synthetic fiber, also known as Elastane.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

lben said:


> I've been doing dye sublimation for 4 years. It is my primary business. too.


Ok ... thanks for that info.

So you are saying that Mark (Riderz) is wrong?

Interesting.


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## Reinbow (May 21, 2007)

VTG said:


> True ... Spandex and Lycra are brand names for the man-made synthetic fiber, also known as Elastane.


Ah! forgot about Elastane - thanks for that John


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

MrRudeDog said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Has anyone had success with fabric containing viscose? I had never heard of it until today, and I understand that is a combination of man-made and natural fibers.
> 
> ...



Ray,

Technically speaking, i believe Viscose is a component of what we call Rayon, which is a semi-synthetic fiber. In other words, it's not a natural fiber, but its also not a true synthetic fiber either.

My guess is that a Poly/Rayon blend will perform just like a Poly/Cotton blend when it comes to dye sublimation. The polyester fibers will be dyed in the process, but the rayon fibers will not. The end result will probably appear a bit faded.

Best way to find out is to test it.

Good luck.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Just to clarify - I personally do not split hairs on whether something is officially a fabric or not. The bottom line is dye sublimation works very well on "fabric" other than poly. We have done MMA, swimsuits, etc using lycra/spandex to name two

Anyone telling you that dye sub only works on poly is ill informed.

As someone mentioned dye sub is the only thing we do and 99% of is cut and sew on a variety of fabrics.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Below is a picture of a Bella 8880 body tank that is made with viscose. We were told viscose was a type of acrylic, but later we found that not to be really true. We pretreated the garment using DTG Pretreat fluid (designed for printing on synthetic fabrics) and printed using a Brother GT-3 printer at the ISS Atlantic City Show in March 2012. The pretreat was cured at 356 degrees F for 20 seconds (10 seconds press, open, 10 second press) and the ink was cured at 356 degrees F for 36 seconds (approx. 20 seconds press, open, 15 second press). 

We decided to open the press during the curing of the pretreat and ink steps because we were afraid that the fabric might melt or distort. Neither happened. The decorator also reported back that the shirt maintained the desired washability.

So my reason for posting this is that you should not be too afraid to test different fabrics to see what works and what does not. In theory, most of us thought the shirt would melt during the curing process. The results stated otherwise. When it works, take a picture of it and share it with others. Just track your results on the different tests so you can determine what the melting point is. But just in case, make sure that you put either parchment paper or a Teflon sheet above and below the garment. The last thing you want to do is have to clean off melted fabric from your heat press.

Best wishes,

Mark


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

Soooo, the story is ... 

Generally speaking, you'll get the best results by using a white (or light colored) 100% polyester fabric. However, the results can vary from one 100% poly fabric to another 100% poly fabric (which is why it's a good idea to test your fabrics first, like Riderz suggested earlier). If the process is done properly, your colors will really pop (bright and vibrant).

For the record, you can dye sub almost any textile with a polyester blend, however, the results WILL vary depending on the % of polyester in the fabric. The colors tend to be a bit muted or faded.

As Riderz stated, you can dye sub Lycra/Spandex fabric ... and I believe you can also dye sub Nylon with some degree of success.

Good luck to all.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

> As someone mentioned dye sub is the only thing we do and 99% of is cut and sew on a variety of fabrics.


Good, glad to hear that. This person (Connor) is looking for someone to print on fabric then sew it up. Maybe you can help him or at least guide him in the right direction.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/advanced-screen-printing-discussion/t185399.html#post1095264


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

DAGuide said:


> Below is a picture of a Bella 8880 body tank that is made with viscose.


Was that garment acceptable to your client?....I do not think I would try and pass that off on my clients....


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

royster13 said:


> Was that garment acceptable to your client?....I do not think I would try and pass that off on my clients....


The garment was printed at a trade show for another garment decorator. It was only printed with CMYK inks - not white inks (but that would be similar to a light garment dye sublimation print). The print looked about the same as if it would have been printed on a 100% cotton shirt with CMYK inks only. 

So I am not sure exactly what you do don't like about it (unless you are talking about the picture being blurry because it was taken with my phone), but it would have passed my level of expectations for print quality.

Mark


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## klindemann (Apr 21, 2008)

By the way, Spandex is the generic name and Lycra is the brand name. Spandex was invented by DuPont who wound up spinning off that division to a company called Invista, the current owner of that brand. Spandex is always a continuous filament, thermoplastic fiber.

Viscose is indeed a type of rayon, the other type of rayon being known as cupramonium (brand name Bemberg). Viscose is not a thermoplastic fiber and will not melt. When heated to a high enough temperature, it will form ash, not liquid. Polyester, of course, is thermoplastic.

The poster claiming that fibers other than polyester can be sublimated is 100% correct, however, they typically don't do it as well. Nylon, or polyamide, is known in the trade as a scavenger fiber, i.e., it will stain with many dyestuffs, including sublimation. Notice I said "stain" since the bond at the molecular level is not as strong as it is with polyester. Another example of a fiber that will sublimate is acetate. Acetate is typically used for linings and ribbon and is actually pretty good for sublimation. The downside is that you can't wash acetate (too weak a fiber - low wet modulus), thus you don't see tee shirts made of it.

Lastly, viscose has no affinity for sublimation inks. You can colorize it in the initial printing but the color will wash out in the laundering. Viscose can impart a really great hand to fabric, particularly when blended with polyester (thus improving wrinkle resistance). It's too bad it will not hold color.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

Thank you Ken, great information ... and thanks for joining our conversation here on TSF.

Wondering if you are familiar with Denali Ribbons and Denali Performance Apparel? 

.


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## MrRudeDog (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks to everyone who weighed in on this question. Special shout out to Ken, who sounds like he knows his fabrics. I probably should have been more verbose in my original post. Though I've only been doing dye sublimation for a year, I've tried out several substrates, and several brands and types of shirts, including 50 poly/50 cotton shirts. 

I've been looking for suitable baby/toddler clothing to do some designs on, and I came across one site that had a "SUBLIM" category for their infant ware. In that category they offered "onesies" in 100% polyester and also some in 52% viscose 48% poly. Having never heard of viscose I posed the question to the TSF, as this community is a very knowledgeable one, if not a somewhat overly opinionated one sometimes. 

Thanks again to all that replied.

Ray


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

DAGuide said:


> The garment was printed at a trade show for another garment decorator. It was only printed with CMYK inks - not white inks (but that would be similar to a light garment dye sublimation print). The print looked about the same as if it would have been printed on a 100% cotton shirt with CMYK inks only.
> 
> So I am not sure exactly what you do don't like about it (unless you are talking about the picture being blurry because it was taken with my phone), but it would have passed my level of expectations for print quality.
> 
> Mark


The imprint is dull.....Not a product I like or would attempt to pass off on a client....


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## klindemann (Apr 21, 2008)

VTG said:


> Thank you Ken, great information ... and thanks for joining our conversation here on TSF.
> 
> Wondering if you are familiar with Denali Ribbons and Denali Performance Apparel?
> 
> .


 
Yes, very much so!


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

DAGuide said:


> Below is a picture of a Bella 8880 body tank that is made with viscose. We were told viscose was a type of acrylic, but later we found that not to be really true. We pretreated the garment using DTG Pretreat fluid (designed for printing on synthetic fabrics) and printed using a Brother GT-3 printer at the ISS Atlantic City Show in March 2012. The pretreat was cured at 356 degrees F for 20 seconds (10 seconds press, open, 10 second press) and the ink was cured at 356 degrees F for 36 seconds (approx. 20 seconds press, open, 15 second press).
> 
> We decided to open the press during the curing of the pretreat and ink steps because we were afraid that the fabric might melt or distort. Neither happened. The decorator also reported back that the shirt maintained the desired washability.
> 
> ...


For being a darker tee I think this came out pretty well. I dont find it dull in comparison with the tag etc I can tell where the camera lacks in quality from your phone. 

Thanks for the share.


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