# Hot vs Cold Peel



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

I just finished reading Lucy's thread on 'Why Cold Peel' and I'm a little confused. I've established a few things (correct me if I'm mistaken):

*1.* The conventional wisdom (on this board as well as that of several of the popular transfer companies) is that hot peel is for light color fabrics, cold is for dark.

*2.* Lucy says that you can do 95% of the stuff out there with hot peels.

*3.* A lot of people have had trouble with hot peels. Many of these people have gone to cold peel because they feel it's easier to transfer.

*4. * There are very few members here that actually print transfers.

*5. * Lucy swears by GLUE. Helps stretch without cracking.

*6. * Some swear by Adhesive Crystals. They claim it makes the transfers come off the paper better.

I'm getting ready to start sampling transfers for my shirts and I've been doing a lot of reading about this subject (blame the engineer in me to need to know _EVERYTHING _before getting started) and it strikes me that I haven't come across a single post that talks about the specific types of inks and additives used in their transfers. For sure, there is a lot of talk when it comes to inkjet transfers, but not plastisol. Is this because most of you don't know? Don't care? Don't want to divulge secrets? Don't think it matters? Have I not been searching hard enough? Is this because the majority of members here are not printers?

I'm thinking that the ink is really the thing I should be looking at. If I can understand what I need to produce the effect I want I'm in pretty good shape when it comes to talking to the printers. Trouble is, there are a lot out there. A frightening amount actually!

Here's the kicker: The specs on the inks don't say if the ink is for hot vs cold transfers. A lot of them say they can be used for both. Arrgh! Here's an example. (I'm assuming that this is a common ink that a lot of shops use).

So let's get to some questions:

*Q1.* If I were to use this ink, what forces me to designate a transfer I make a hot vs cold peel? Curing? Additives? Paper? 

*Q2.* What is this GLUE that Lucy keeps harping on about? I found this in the lawson line. Sounds like the same kind of stuff. Is it? Maybe it's something more like this?

*Q3.* Are adhesive crystals used primarily in cold transfers? I can't imagine that molten glue will stick to much.

*Q4.* (This is really my ultimate goal). I am searching for an ink/ink mixture to print transfers with some specific characteristics. Any suggestions on what lines/brands to look into?

Here's what I'm looking for:

* Thin/light/soft hand. Shirts will be used by sweaty people and I don't want the transfer to stick.

* Not glossy.

* Good adherence/coverage to textured 100% poly fabric with some stretch to it. Waffle/mesh weave.

* Primarily white material with single color logos (two colors at most). Maybe some white on navy material in the future. 


That's it for now. More questions to follow I'm sure!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hi jose, im glad you are taking an interest in this topic.

Custom means just that, "Custom".
I have concluded that the main reason why transfer companies make them as cold is because its safe. In other words, perfect for a client that orders 24 custom transfers only. 

Now when doing a job for 1,000,000 transfers, in order to get the job based on quality and price points, cold peel will not do it. Custom everything, starting from the art, to what they will be applied on. It may need 3 passes of white with 2 passes of addictives at 4% each or whatever it takes for the custom job to be done at the highest quality and lowest price points.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

> I haven't come across a single post that talks about the specific types of inks and additives used in their transfers.


I think your confused. Plastisol is not an ink. We have discussed inks and the one ink that is used the most is pigment inks. Inkjet printers have either pigment or dye. Screen printers use plastisol paint. It is not an ink. We who do use printers for hot peel do not use additives. Additives are used in screen printing plastisol transfers.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

badalou said:


> Plastisol is not an ink.


Yes it is.



badalou said:


> Screen printers use plastisol paint.


No they do not.



badalou said:


> It is not an ink.


Yes it is.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Lou...you are confusing everyone...fold that hand now.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Here's what I'm looking for:
> 
> * Thin/light/soft hand. Shirts will be used by sweaty people and I don't want the transfer to stick.
> 
> ...


any reputable transfer maker can make exactly what you need (when the art and process permits). The problem i find in most cases is that the peeps behind the actual design end may not be educated enough to design for the garment decoration industry, knits etc.... and send us paper post card art for Off-Set type printing and expect it to be the same a screen printing on knits.

what quantity are you looking to make ? for small runs with elaborate variables, its more cost effective for your art dep. to create such designs for t-shirts etc. sometimes one little small change can save you a lot of money.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

> Lou...you are confusing everyone...fold that hand now.


You are right. I meant that it was not an ink for your printer. It is a ink used by screen printers. That was a bluff. Now I raise.. I answered that question in the wee hours of the morning. Now I am fully awake.. and have coffee..


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

badalou said:


> You are right. I meant that it was not an ink for your printer. It is a ink used by screen printers. That was a bluff. Now I raise.. I answered that question in the wee hours of the morning. Now I am fully awake.. and have coffee..


Lou, you could post something in Chinese and I would still know what you are talking about. No worries, it happens to the best of us.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

dá xiè (For Lucy)


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

We're going to have to let him slide on that one. One more outburst like that however and you WILL be beaten by the confusion police Lou!

I am talking strictly plastisol. I only mentioned inkjets because that is the ONLY kind of ink I hear mentioned here.

I'm just trying to figure it all out. It's pretty obvious that there are two worlds here and the languages don't jive up. Where do all the transfer printers hang out?

I still want to know what (chemically or process-wise) make a transfer hot or cold!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hi jose, 

here is an article that provides a basic understanding of how various transfer types are made etc. enjoy: http://www.unionink.com/articles/transfer.html


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> any reputable transfer maker can make exactly what you need (when the art and process permits). The problem i find in most cases is that the peeps behind the actual design end may not be educated enough to design for the garment decoration industry


This peep is trying to learn so at least I have a clue as to what goes on behind the scenes. I *really* don't want to set up a screenprinting shop. Really! That's why I'm looking into transfers. 

I really hope I'm not hitting one of those 'industry' things where everybody gets all super-secretive about their knowledge and processes. I deal with that stuff every day in my plainclothes job and I HATE IT!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> This peep is trying to learn so at least I have a clue as to what goes on behind the scenes. I *really* don't want to set up a screenprinting shop. Really! That's why I'm looking into transfers.
> 
> I really hope I'm not hitting one of those 'industry' things where everybody gets all super-secretive about their knowledge and processes. I deal with that stuff every day in my plainclothes job and I HATE IT!


hummm, 
let me explain my first post.

Custom means just that: "Custom".

every professional transfer job involves being able to produce whatever the client's CUSTOM needs are. So, there is not a manual for this. It all depends on what the CUSTOM requirements are and the transfer maker ability to deliver such. This could even involve having specific CUSTOM inks made for you, ONLY. 

If you are looking for a quick Masters Degree on making transfers its not going to happen because ALL Custom jobs are different and you learn as you go. 

I honestly do not know a better way to explain it.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks. This is a good start. I'll read it more closely tonight after work but I think I just realized why hot splits don't work as well on darks -- Not all of the ink gets on the fabric. Duh!


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Heh. No, I'm not looking to add a McDegree to my resume. I'm just trying to break down the problem into bite-size pieces. Maybe I'm not asking the right questions... that's pretty common.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Thanks. This is a good start. I'll read it more closely tonight after work but I think I just realized why hot splits don't work as well on darks -- Not all of the ink gets on the fabric. Duh!


sorry, you are way off base. Do read a little more before mis-leading newbies with such statements. Polluting the information highway and this board with junk is not good since a lot of us here try to help peeps move in the right direction and ask for nothing in return.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> and it strikes me that I haven't come across a single post that talks about the *specific types of inks* and additives used in their transfers. For sure, there is a lot of talk when it comes to inkjet transfers, but not plastisol. Is this because most of you don't know? Don't care? Don't want to divulge secrets? Don't think it matters? Have I not been searching hard enough? Is this because the majority of members here are not printers?


The specific types of inks used in plastisol transfers are plastisol inks 

I'm no expert, but from what I've read, the "adhesive crystals" that other members talk about and the "glue" that Lucy talks about basically serve the same purpose: to make the design more durable.

I don't think anybody is being super secretive here. 

As far as I know, Lucy is the only one here who actually works for a company that prints plastisol transfers. So she probably has more first hand knowledge about it. At the same time, she is probably more familiar with the custom work HER company does than with all the other companies out there. 



> Q4. (This is really my ultimate goal). I am searching for an ink/ink mixture to print transfers with some specific characteristics. Any suggestions on what lines/brands to look into?


I think Lucy answered that one when she wrote:



t-bot said:


> any reputable transfer maker can make exactly what you need



It sounds like you know exactly what you want your final prints to look like. 

I think to get what you want, all you have to do is communicate your needs to the various plastisol printers and ask them if they can accommodate those requirements.

You could almost copy and paste your last paragraphs into an email to them and that would give them more than enough information to let you know if they can handle that type of work (attaching a small jpg sample of your artwork would probably help as well):



Jose said:


> Q4. (This is really my ultimate goal). I am searching for an ink/ink mixture to print transfers with some specific characteristics. Any suggestions on what lines/brands to look into?
> 
> Here's what I'm looking for:
> 
> ...


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> sorry, you are way off base. Do read a little more before mis-leading newbies with such statements. Polluting the information highway and this board with junk is not good since a lot of us here try to help peeps move in the right direction and ask for nothing in return.


From the article you linked to (emphasis mine):



> *Types of Transfers*
> 
> The two most common types of plastisol heat transfers are Hot-Split and Cold-Peel. The main difference between the two is the way they are applied. When applying hot-split transfers, the transfer paper is removed immediately after the heat transfer press is opened. Because the plastisol ink layer is still hot and relatively fluid, it splits. Most of the ink remains on the T-shirt, but some adheres to the paper. Hot split transfers have a very soft hand and when properly applied, are almost indistinguishable from a direct print. _Because hot split transfers leave a thinner layer of ink on the T-shirt, you may have problems with opacity, especially on dark-colored garments._


Please don't accuse me of polluting. I am a newbie myself. I am asking here for the sole purpose of putting the discussion out there so others may benefit. I am perfectly capable of going out on my own researching and experimenting without sharing any of that knowledge, but what good would that do for everyone else?

Perhaps you can enlighten us by explaining *why* you think the above is incorrect instead of just saying that it's wrong?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Please don't accuse me of polluting. I am a newbie myself. I am asking here for the sole purpose of putting the discussion out there so others may benefit.


Agreed, please don't accuse a person learning of polluting  It's clear that Jose is doing his research on the topic and sharing what he's learning.

It's an ongoing learning discussion and we're all trying to help or learn.



> Perhaps you can enlighten us by explaining *why* you think the above is incorrect instead of just saying that it's wrong?


I think that would be helpful as well.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Rodney said:


> The specific types of inks used in plastisol transfers are plastisol inks


Ha ha!



> I'm no expert, but from what I've read, the "adhesive crystals" that other members talk about and the "glue" that Lucy talks about basically serve the same purpose: to make the design more durable.


Yes. I've reached the same conclusion. It looks like there are additives that are mixed with the inks to enhance/modify their characteristics (stretchability, sheen, adhesion) just like in household paint. The crystals are sprinkled on the wet/tacky ink after printing and are just for adhesion to the garment. 

Here's an article I ran across this morning that talks about the different additives and how they're used.

This paragraph is particularly interesting:


> With proper stirring some plastisol ink can be used straight from the can, but often the printer needs to make minor adjustments. The need for ink modifi cation is caused by the variety of equipment, substrates, end results desired and physical conditions in the pressroom. Ink manufacturers simply cannot make a single all-purpose ink that will meet every requirement.


This explains to me what Lucy means when she says _CUSTOM_.

Essentially, there's no such thing as an all-purpose ink. There are lots of good starting points. Knowing where to take it from the 'big can' involves knowledge of the additives, the printing and pressing process and what look you are shooting for. If you order a can of ink and just start using it, chances are that the results are going to be not-so-good.



rodney said:


> It sounds like you know exactly what you want your final prints to look like.
> 
> I think to get what you want, all you have to do is communicate your needs to the various plastisol printers and ask them if they can accommodate those requirements.


That is exactly my intention. I didn't mean to sound like I was demanding someone here to go and tell me *exactly* what formulations to use. I'm trying to build up knowledge so that when I'm able to specify what I want, I can reasonably understand what it's going to take to get that. I'm actively trying to find out answers on my own and will continue posting my discoveries to this thread.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I found when I wanted answers to questions like this I went to the source. Lucy is a great example of a source and another I found has been Janet at www.First-edition.com they make my plastisol transfers and have been extremely helpful.. Would anyone like another cup of egg nog.. it has just the right amount of rum.. deck the halls..tra la la la la..


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I found when I wanted answers to questions like this I went to the source. Lucy is a great example of a source and another I found has been Janet at www.First-edition.com


Now if only we could get Janet here, we'd have double the great sources of plastisol transfer printing information 



> Would anyone like another cup of egg nog.. it has just the right amount of rum.


For some reason, I never got into the whole egg nog thing. Maybe the kind I've tried never had enough rum in it


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> This explains to me what Lucy means when she says _CUSTOM_.


yep, custom means custom.

reading sure does help inform yourself better. Do continue to research it.

good luck.  



T-BOT said:


> very simple.
> 
> HOT SPLIT is all you need - this is 2006 not the 90's.
> 
> ...


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> reading sure does help inform yourself better. Do continue to research it.


Thanks for reposting that Lucy. DO you think you could address this part of Jose's question as well?



Jose said:


> Perhaps you can enlighten us by explaining *why* you think the above is incorrect instead of just saying that it's wrong?


By "the above", he was referring to the plastisol printing article that you linked to that said:



> Types of Transfers
> 
> The two most common types of plastisol heat transfers are Hot-Split and Cold-Peel. The main difference between the two is the way they are applied. When applying hot-split transfers, the transfer paper is removed immediately after the heat transfer press is opened. Because the plastisol ink layer is still hot and relatively fluid, it splits. Most of the ink remains on the T-shirt, but some adheres to the paper. Hot split transfers have a very soft hand and when properly applied, are almost indistinguishable from a direct print. *Because hot split transfers leave a thinner layer of ink on the T-shirt, you may have problems with opacity, especially on dark-colored garments.*


You said he was wrong when he posted the same thing:



Jose said:


> I think I just realized why hot splits don't work as well on darks -- Not all of the ink gets on the fabric


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Thanks for reposting that Lucy. DO you think you could address this part of Jose's question as well?
> You said he was wrong when he posted the same thing:


sure thing Rodney,

that is a basic article about transfers. For sure a good resource for anyone who wants to get the basic picture of it all.

Beyond that, everyday transfer maker techniques and inks are further developed to accomplish things that have never been done before. Such as Hot Peel transfer for darks that leave no ink at all on the paper.

With reference to the Hot Split transfer Ink Being left on the paper, this is still common with a lot of transfer makers but its no longer the case with other transfer makers.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> yep, custom means custom.
> 
> reading sure does help inform yourself better. Do continue to research it.
> 
> good luck.


Not so fast Tiger!

There is a language/communication barrier here that I'm trying to decipher. 

What you posted is (my interpretation) a description of _your_ hot peel transfers along with directions on how to apply them. It tells me nothing about what's actually in them! That is the missing ingredient here. Do you use the same ink/additives for ALL of your transfers? Do you modify your process depending on the fabric? I'm confused because it's obvious that you *don't* use the same inks for all your jobs. You've implied that time and time again. How come only a single set of instructions then?

I'm getting the distinct impression that Hot vs. Cold is really just how you peel the darn thing off the garment and nothing else. Some inks work better one way, some the other. Your formulations happen to work well for hot for most fabrics (observation, not fact).

If this is the case, it's kind of ridiculous to specify hot/cold when buying transfers. Specify the ink and that will dictate the pressing. Yes? No?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

T-BOT said:


> that is a basic article about transfers. For sure a good resource for anyone who wants to get the basic picture of it all.
> 
> Beyond that, everyday transfer maker techniques and inks are further developed to accomplish things that have never been done before. Such as Hot Peel transfer for darks that leave no ink at all on the paper.


Gotcha, thanks for that clarification.

So, it does sound like there is some "proprietary" information on how different transfer makers mix their inks to produce the results the customer wants.

So in "general" hot splits may have left ink on the paper, reducing opacity, but some transfer makers have been able tweak their inks and printing to counter that problem and still give good results on dark with hot splits.

Does that sound about right?



Jose said:


> hat you posted is (my interpretation) a description of your hot peel transfers along with directions on how to apply them. It tells me nothing about what's actually in them! That is the missing ingredient here. Do you use the same ink/additives for ALL of your transfers? Do you modify your process depending on the fabric? I'm confused because it's obvious that you don't use the same inks for all your jobs. You've implied that time and time again. How come only a single set of instructions then?


I think you might have been right when you guessed that some of the stuff might be "secretive". 

From what I'm understanding from Lucy's posts, there are some "extra" things that some transfer makers may do to make hot splits work for all image types.

While the sharing of information on this forum is great and exceeds most folks expectations, we can't expect printers to "give up the farm" if it's messing with their competitive edge.

I think most people don't delve as deep as you do because the printing is just the means to an end. They don't need to know "how" the printing is done exactly, just that it "is" done and done to their specifications.

If you have clear specifications like you do, it sounds like you should be able to narrow things down and find a printer that can do what you need, whether it be hot peel or cold peel.

Just my two bits


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Jose, i think we are going around in circles here.
yes, again, all Custom Jobs are different and the composition of materials and other variables are taken into account to produce perfect results.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney, 

example: just did a complicated design that had 1 fine line and a very thin space in it. It was a multi-purpose transfer to be applied on all colors and on stretch t-shirts and fleece and on fine polyester garments (this polyester would not stand for the press temp. to be higher than 350F). On top of that the dominating color was White and the company who was going to press the transfers quoted the job to be done for X amount of hours. So this meant that the transfer we had to produce hat to be a 3 sec. apply time and also had to work at low temp. because of the polyester garments.

In order to get the job done and make sure the printing contractor did not exceed the production time. We had to contact a USA ink supplier to formulate a special WHITE INK we could use TOGETHER with a certain percentage of adhesive'S in order to do the job. We spent 2 days testing and by the end of it all the job was done. A happy ending.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Rodney said:


> While the sharing of information on this forum is great and exceeds most folks expectations, we can't expect printers to "give up the farm" if it's messing with their competitive edge.


And although I don't expect anybody to give up secrets, this stuff ain't exactly rocket science. Manufacturers have their product spec sheets out there. The part that *isn't* easy to replicate is the process and experimentation. Good printers have their process nailed. It's very difficult for me (or any other joe shmoe hobbyist) to replicate that because it takes a lot of time and money. Maybe if we understood how much work goes into getting that part perfected we'd understand why sometimes things cost more.

I think I've learned enough now feel comfortable in tackling the next step -- specing and ordering transfers. Hopefully I won't come across as a total tard! 



> I think most people don't delve as deep as you do because the printing is just the means to an end. They don't need to know "how" the printing is done exactly, just that it "is" done and done to their specifications.


Agreed. There's also a LOT of confusion out there. The nature of sites like this may unfortunately lead to this (certainly by no fault of the site or the contributors. I'm glad it's all here!). Discussions start, questions get answered and a dialogue ensues. People sometimes don't want to (or can't) commit the time to read and follow the flow of information which is crucial to understand any conclusions/results that may come out at the end. Misunderstanding occur. People get upset. Flame wars ensue and it starts all over again on another thread. 

Welcome to USENET!


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Maybe if we understood how much work goes into getting that part perfected we'd understand why sometimes things cost more.


I think Lucy gave a good example of that in her post above yours 



> Discussions start, questions get answered and a dialogue ensues. People sometimes don't want to (or can't) commit the time to read and follow the flow of information which is crucial to understand any conclusions/results that may come out at the end. Misunderstanding occur. People get upset. Flame wars ensue and it starts all over again on another thread.


Actually, I don't think you'll see a lot of flame wars here 

Welcome to the T-Shirt Forums!


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I think Lucy gave a good example of that in her post above yours


If you mean this one


T-BOT said:


> example: just did a complicated design that had 1 fine line and a very thin space in it. It was a multi-purpose transfer to be applied on all colors and on stretch t-shirts and fleece and a fine polyester (this polyester would not stand for the press temp. to be higher than 350F). On top of that the dominating color was White and the company who was going to press the transfers quoted the job to be done for X amount of hours. So this meant that the transfer we had to produce hat to be a 3 sec. apply time and also had to work at low tem. because of the polyester garments.


You're absolutely right. That was illuminating. I had no idea all the parameters that you have to take into account! I also found this on another thread in the screen printing section: 



T-BOT said:


> For example, white ink reacts different then black ink when printing on darks as a hot peel.


That got me thinking again... I went back and looked at threads where people were talking about having trouble getting transfers to stick. All of the suggestions were to tweak the temp, pressure or press time based on _who made the transfers_ or _whether they were hot or cold peel_. That's IT!

Do you see how the two sides of the fence see things? The printer has 8 zillion variables to consider, the pressers just look at a couple (printer and removal method). The printer has the advantage of knowing the characteristics of the composition so that it may be obvious to them how to get it to stick. The presser is more or less in the dark so it's no wonder that there are a lot of trial and error issues reported here.

Lucy, I don't see this as going around and around in circles. It's been very educational for me. I'm trying to see things from your perspective but you have a lot of accumulated knowledge that I lack and I takes some processing to understand what you're really saying sometimes. 

I still don't have a concrete answer to the cold vs hot designation however. My working hypothesis is that it has to do with the ink composition -- either the percentage of white or if white is used as a base layer. White ink seems to not adhere as well as colored/dark inks (different base?) while still molten/unset. Most transfer makers take the safe road and tell their customers to cold peel on darks because they have a white base for most of the inks on the design (or as a base layer). There is no need to do this if you use the right kind of inks/ink additives.

How light and dark fabrics fit into the equation is beyond me. How does the ink know what color the material is? Especially a synthetic material? It's more likely that people don't use white to print on white or back on blacks, no? Does black in have different characteristics when printed on say a dark brown shirt vs a white one? My money's on NO.

Lucy, is this why you don't know why anyone cold peels anymore? More modern inks that basically eliminate an old problem?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I really dont know why one ink works better than another or why one transfer works on both lites and darks. I presume opaque inks but have no facts to back that up. I do use stock transfers that work on lite and dark shirts and 99% are hotsplit or peel transfers. The instructions do indicate a shorter dwell time of about 3 seconds for dark shirts.

My only cold peel transfer has a very glossy finish with glitter inks involved within the design.
I do have some new glitter ink transfers that are hot-split.

The transfers we use all come from well known transfer companies and are never a problem to print. I have one test shirt and it was my mistake...transfer upside down.

Formulations of ink for me is a non issue. I dont print the transfers and dont pretend to know all the ins and outs of plastisol printing. I do have a basic understanding of printing techniques but thats as far as I go.
If I order transfers just let the printer know exactly how they are going to be applied, what color and type of apparel and I expect the pros to understand how to do it.

I am curious how its all done, screening, transfer printing etc but for me a hands on experience is worth 10.000 words. 

I think there are several methods of printing transfers but new inks and techniques are probably why they work now as hotsplits or peels on lite and dark shirts.

Here is a typical example of why you may be asking your question. If you go on Pro-Worlds website and find an image on a dark background indicating printing on darks. Assuming its a hotsplit or hotpeel transfer...when you click on the icon that promps for more info or printing info one box will tell opaque inks for lites or darks. The other promt you open...I think printing instructions will tell you that hotsplit transfers are generally for printing on lite garments only. The example I am using is the Drink Rum transfer by the way.
I have noticed however that some of the newer transfers have different transfer instructions. Good for both lites and darks using super opaque inks.

Confusing?...sure it is to someone trying to buy gear with little or no experience. Anyhoo...I have run into this but rest assured everything purchased from this transfer distrb. has printed perfectly on lites and darks.

Just my observations which probably lead to more questions than answers but there it is.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Impulse made an Alice Cooper transfer a few years back that was a hot peel for Black T-Shirts only. A full color type transfer, im sure there was no PUFF in it, it looked like a 4-color process but i still have no idea how they made that (or who ever made it for them...du-no, i never asked them.  ).... it was a really well made jumbo size transfer.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> How light and dark fabrics fit into the equation is beyond me. How does the ink know what color the material is? Especially a synthetic material? It's more likely that people don't use white to print on white or back on blacks, no? Does black in have different characteristics when printed on say a dark brown shirt vs a white one? My money's on NO.


I think the main issue here is that of opacity. When you're printing white ink on to a black shirt, it needs to be more opaque (so that the black shirt doesn't show through and discolor the print). In theory, cold peel transfers are easier to make more opaque (and will be easier to transfer "all" the ink), so this is why they are recommended for dark shirts.

The advantage to using hot peels, then, is a softer hand (some hot peels do 'split' and leave some ink on the paper, but this is fine for lights and less ink means less hand) and less time (you don't have to wait for shirt to cool before peeling). Also note that there tends to be a bit of a difference in the look of the finished product as well - IIRC (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), cold peel gives more of a glossy finish and hot peel more of a matte finish.

Obviously, some inks are crossing these borders a bit now, and there are hot splits that work just fine on darks. From your description of what you're wanting, you will probably want some flavor of hot peel.

Finally, some speciality effects (various puffs, glitters, etc.) can only be done effectively with cold peel, assumedly because of different ink requirements. E.g., First Edition only offers the adhesive crystals in cold peel I believe. Some special effects can likely be done on both.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

What makes Hot vs Cold Peel transfer Different ?

1. The Ink Formula
2. The release Paper
3. The Process in detail / equipment
4. The guy making them.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Lucy, is this why you don't know why anyone cold peels anymore? More modern inks that basically eliminate an old problem?


yep.   

btw Jose, let me know how the testing for your project goes. I specificaly formulated the testers for you. Test them out on the fabric (waffle mini dots) and than we can go from there and see if what you are looking for can be achieved. I think it can, but i've been wrong many times before.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Will do. Looking forward to getting this train moving. I've generated a lot interest around here with this project and people want to see some results!

Mojo is quite excited as well. He can't wait to press more stuff!


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Mojo is quite excited as well. He can't wait to press more stuff!


Heh, great photo.

That's probably a pretty reliable formula for a good photo actually: stick a Boston terrier next to an object, wait three seconds for it to look puzzled, -click-


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

On the subject of learning more about plastisol transfer inks, processes, cold peels, etc. I ran across this interesting supplier site tonight with some good info:

http://www.lancergroup.com/catalog2.html


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Will do. Looking forward to getting this train moving. I've generated a lot interest around here with this project and people want to see some results!
> 
> Mojo is quite excited as well. He can't wait to press more stuff!


Actually, this thread may turn out to be hit. What you are doing is something a little off the norm but i think it will answer some questions and hopefully help others in seeing what really goes on with a Custom Transfer project from start to finish. 

For a while there, the transfer world was looking like pasta with no taste to me. Im glad there are peeps out there that do want to experiment and find new ways of doing things. 

btw. Don Cherry lives around here.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> On the subject of learning more about plastisol transfer inks, processes, cold peels, etc. I ran across this interesting supplier site tonight with some good info:


Actually there is a guy there out West, he and I once talked about a putting together an Airbrush gun with a special Nozel to use for one off's freestyle type Glitter Designs. .......Changed my mind and used an off the shelf spray paint can for the job. May I'll go back to that Idea again sometime.

btw their *SuperFlock* screen printed transfer material is very good.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> Actually, this thread may turn out to be hit. What you are doing is something a little off the norm but i think it will answer some questions and hopefully help others in seeing what really goes on with a Custom Transfer project from start to finish.


Thanks kind of the idea. 

I'm surprised that more people *aren't* going through all this. Maybe they are and they all have enough common sense to keep it off the public bitwaves.



> For a while there, the transfer world was looking like pasta with no taste to me. Im glad there are peeps out there that do want to experiment and find new ways of doing things.


Just wait. There's more to come. I've got a few other things I want to investigate once I get this all figured out. 



> btw. Don Cherry lives around here.


Who's Don? ?


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Who's Don? ?


this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Cherry_(hockey)

he's has a really cool dog too. Famous actually.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Oh, duh, THAT Don Cherry! Why didn't you say so? 

I don't think Don would like me much. I wear a face mask. Good thing too... I got clocked pretty good by a big tall guy last night. I saw stars and I feel like my jaw is set about 20cm back from its usual resting spot.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I love that little dog!!!!


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Rodney said:


> On the subject of learning more about plastisol transfer inks, processes, cold peels, etc. I ran across this interesting supplier site tonight with some good info:
> 
> http://www.lancergroup.com/catalog2.html


Union Ink has some interesting info as well.

Take the time to read the description of the inks. It'll give you a very good idea of what's in your transfers!


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