# DTG vs Screenprinting



## bburgess053 (Mar 3, 2015)

What type or customer jobs and vector work is DTG used for, and what type of customer jobs is screen printing used for? I guess basically I'm asking as I have in other post coast effectiveness.. In startup!


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## murtceps (Aug 11, 2010)

bburgess053 said:


> What type or customer jobs and vector work is DTG used for, and what type of customer jobs is screen printing used for? I guess basically I'm asking as I have in other post coast effectiveness.. In startup!


Apples vs. Oranges my friend.

Just do a diligent search on this forum and you will get *ALL *your answers!


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

I agree with Cheapboxers...you are trying to compare and contrast 2 extremely different processes.

Screenprinting = High volume, simple designs, large minimum orders and extensive setup. Vector images are required in order to create the screens etc.

DTG = Low Volume, Photographic results, no minimum order, little to no setup. Raster images are the preferred file type. If it can be printed on to a piece of paper it can be printed on to a shirt.

Do you have any other specific questions?


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## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

I'd have to disagree a little bit with you Eric. Screen Printing doesn't have to have high volumes or simple designs or vector artwork, or even an extensive setup. Although everything you mentioned is nice to have.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Decal_Designs said:


> I'd have to disagree a little bit with you Eric. Screen Printing doesn't have to have high volumes or simple designs or vector artwork, or even an extensive setup. Although everything you mentioned is nice to have.


I was just generalizing but no screen printer is going to print an 8 color design on an order of only 4 pieces. A DTG printer on the other hand can handle 1 shirt with 1 color or 100 shirts with 100 colors or even 100 different designs on 100 different shirts. Each have their place in the market but nothing is better for photographic quality low quantities than DTG.


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## bburgess053 (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks for the info! I know it wasn't to specific..just confirming if I should use screen print for limited color, high quantity to save money vs wasting ink for limited color, high quantity on DTG printer.


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## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

Ok. So let's get some more information. Are you going to be printing these designs yourself? Are you wanting to purchase the equipment, or are you gathering information to look for somebody to print your designs for you? Give us an example of one of your designs that you have in mind. How many colors are there, and how many do you want to make?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

You dont need vector to make screens. If a raster image is good enough to produce a DTG then is good enough to make screens. 

There seems to be this misinformation that you have to to have vector, need high quantiles. Yes it lowers the cost. I print for a few schools. There are some 6 color I do for them 24 shirts. I normally as for 12 shirts per color but they are willing to pay the extra for screen printing. I mentioned DTG and they acted like it was the plague. The told me you can defiantly tell the classes that get DTG by the end of the year. I agree. 

I've had car guys spend $150-$200 on a shirt. Some of them spend $30,000-$100,000 and up on a car they don't drive so what's a few hundred on a shirt. They also advised they have done the DTG and they don't last like my screen printing. The only way I can get the DTG samples I get at the shows to last is to turn them inside out and to not dry them all the way. I've invited several to send a sample, I've even offered to pay that have said how they will last the same as screen printing. Still waiting.


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## bburgess053 (Mar 3, 2015)

Well to start I..I won't be printing them my self. I'm trying to figure out if I should invest because of how much out sourcing set ups coast. If anyone knows a good place or site to start up with minimal coast..that's what I'm looking for. What I want to do is start up a couple series of T-shirt designs for kids and adults with a brand, and if need be get a few jobs on the side printing for contractors, schools, businesses.. Etc. Witch seems to be very profitable! "Again I'm new to this and forum". I'm a designer but artist first I just want to put my art work on shirts, different ideas under one brand name! If I'm making since..and some of my designs are very detailed in color. Like 8 colors. Sometimes 5 or 6! Should I start thinking of breaking them down to minimal pantone colors?? Just trying to get a solid way to start! Ive done all the technical stuff..thinking of a brand, designing a logo, thinking of a plan..now I need to actually execute!


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## Jmelwak (Oct 23, 2013)

dont forget about all the chemicals used with screen printing. thats what turned me off, and DTG footprint much smaller (another thing that i didnt have was space) i can fit my dtg in a bedroom and nothing stinks, smells or has any harsh chemicals . outsouring is a good way to get some capital going, it works well if you find a good screen printer or dtg user at affordable costs most dtg companies will not charge and setup fees.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

bburgess053 said:


> Well to start I..I won't be printing them my self. I'm trying to figure out if I should invest because of how much out sourcing set ups coast. If anyone knows a good place or site to start up with minimal coast..that's what I'm looking for. What I want to do is start up a couple series of T-shirt designs for kids and adults with a brand, and if need be get a few jobs on the side printing for contractors, schools, businesses.. Etc. Witch seems to be very profitable! "Again I'm new to this and forum". I'm a designer but artist first I just want to put my art work on shirts, different ideas under one brand name! If I'm making since..and some of my designs are very detailed in color. Like 8 colors. Sometimes 5 or 6! Should I start thinking of breaking them down to minimal pantone colors?? Just trying to get a solid way to start! Ive done all the technical stuff..thinking of a brand, designing a logo, thinking of a plan..now I need to actually execute!


if you want screen printing try to keep to 6 colors that is the most common screen print shops capabilities, without seeing the designs though cant advise how many colors. I've attached several prints I think 1 of them is a 6 color all others are 5 or less these are ones I can post. I have many other that I don't have permission. also if you start wanting Pantone colors instead of using stock colors many screen printers will charge $15-$35 per color for pantone matching, a DTG printer cant guarantee pantone matches. Another thing to consider is your location and the shop you work with. Shipping can get expensive.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Jmelwak said:


> dont forget about all the chemicals used with screen printing. thats what turned me off, and DTG footprint much smaller (another thing that i didnt have was space) i can fit my dtg in a bedroom and nothing stinks, smells or has any harsh chemicals . outsouring is a good way to get some capital going, it works well if you find a good screen printer or dtg user at affordable costs most dtg companies will not charge and setup fees.


 What about pretreat, you better look at some of the MSDS sheets, of course you don't really know all the chemicals as some are listed as proprietary. 

Not all screen printing operations use harsh chemical that stink, I for one use all eco friendly chemicals. My biggest problem with DTG is that every time I have subbed out which was only a few times, or got samples from shows they never last like screen printing. 

Not all screen printing is the same either. Plastisol some screen printers ink will crack quickly either due to cheap ink, under cure, over cure, I for one have customers who try a cheap place and then come back cause the cheap shops shirts have already failed while mine keep on holding up. with as many colors your wanting water base will be expensive and the newer inks are holding up well but they use to be in about the same book as DTG in my book with the first few washes being color loss unless I wash in cold water inside out and either dry about 75% and hang or dry on low temp. my problem with that is I don't want a customer dependent on proper care. plus I wash everything in hot water, I want my stuff clean and sanitized. 

I am going to a few shows this year I keep hearing how the DTG is advancing and I invited one manufacture in a thread on the forum to send me some samples and let me test, I would buy a DTG in a heart beat if it would last like screen print for these small jobs.


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## dial911forme (Sep 22, 2014)

I have shirts that still look good that I printed 20 years ago with Union ink. How many DTG printers can say that in 20 years? It's like has been said, apples to oranges. Each has it's place. And for anyone who thinks screen printing is super limited to colors and vector, there is a whole new world out there that you should look into....


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

dial911forme said:


> I have shirts that still look good that I printed 20 years ago with Union ink. How many DTG printers can say that in 20 years? It's like has been said, apples to oranges. Each has it's place. And for anyone who thinks screen printing is super limited to colors and vector, there is a whole new world out there that you should look into....


DTG inks haven't even been around for 20 years - White ink isn't even 10 years old!! I would like to see how well shirts printed with the first generation of screen printing inks have held up. I don't want my customers shirts to last an eternity. I want it to last for an acceptable amount of time and the buy another shirt!! (1 year is plenty acceptable imo = 25 to 30 washes)

Things have changed DRAMATICALLY in the past 12 months with pretreatment/inks and print longevity. The DTG industry is moving forward at rate faster than screen printing could ever dream of. I am excited to see how things improve and grow over the next couple years!!


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Dekay317 said:


> DTG inks haven't even been around for 20 years - White ink isn't even 10 years old!! I would like to see how well shirts printed with the first generation of screen printing inks have held up. I don't want my customers shirts to last an eternity. I want it to last for an acceptable amount of time and the buy another shirt!! (1 year is plenty acceptable imo = 25 to 30 washes)
> 
> Things have changed DRAMATICALLY in the past 12 months with pretreatment/inks and print longevity. The DTG industry is moving forward at rate faster than screen printing could ever dream of. I am excited to see how things improve and grow over the next couple years!!


this what keeps being said even last year at the show and I got 2 shirts at the show that were suppose to be all the latest greatest. Still not something I am willing to put my name on and sell. 

I sell to schools a lot so they get new shirt every year and Kids are tough on the garments. If they cant be washed hot water and be scrubbed and last 1 year and look good I cant offer them to these clients. Wish I could due to they always being 24 or so shirts per classroom and 1-6 colors and every classroom being different.

Since screen printing has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years I would hope DTG is advancing faster.


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## dial911forme (Sep 22, 2014)

Dekay317 said:


> DTG inks haven't even been around for 20 years - White ink isn't even 10 years old!!


That's why I said "in 20 years"

One of the things I pride my business in is having customers say that I gave them a great product that last a long time. It's part of the value of having me do their job.

DTG has a place and I'm not closed to the idea of getting into that area one day. But the price vs value vs profit isn't there for me yet.


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## Jmelwak (Oct 23, 2013)

sben763 said:


> this what keeps being said even last year at the show and I got 2 shirts at the show that were suppose to be all the latest greatest. Still not something I am willing to put my name on and sell.
> 
> I sell to schools a lot so they get new shirt every year and Kids are tough on the garments. If they cant be washed hot water and be scrubbed and last 1 year and look good I cant offer them to these clients. Wish I could due to they always being 24 or so shirts per classroom and 1-6 colors and every classroom being different.
> 
> Since screen printing has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years I would hope DTG is advancing faster.


that sucks, i have no idea what kind of shirts you got at the show but obviously was not of quality. I have shirts that have been washed over 40 times and they are really still like the day i printed them. (i can show you photos if you like) Not washed inside out and in hot water some dryed in a dryer some hang dryed, and my little girl is 3 years old so a mess of food dirt mud and more on hers still no fading cracking or peeling. Maybe the shirts you got were not cured properly or just of cheap quality. 

Also i know whats in the pretreat i use and its hardly anything close to some screenprinting chemicals i read about. But i do know there are different chemicals and processes with screen but thats just a reason i myself did not get into it, im not saying anyone shouldnt because of that. Also DTG is a slow process unless you get one of those crazy printers that have 20 heads on them! 

Everyone is right though DTG has its place as well as screen printing, My father screen printed for 10 years in the 90s , but was still amazed how things can be printed just by pushing a button on a printer


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Jmelwak said:


> that sucks, i have no idea what kind of shirts you got at the show but obviously was not of quality. I have shirts that have been washed over 40 times and they are really still like the day i printed them. (i can show you photos if you like) Not washed inside out and in hot water some dryed in a dryer some hang dryed, and my little girl is 3 years old so a mess of food dirt mud and more on hers still no fading cracking or peeling. Maybe the shirts you got were not cured properly or just of cheap quality.


well I got shirts from all the Major manufactures and last 2 that are considered the top here on the forum. I would hope they would be putting out their best product if their trying to sell me a $10,000+ printer. Good thing is at least I know about all the problems and maintenance stuff with DTG printers and can fix my own, Even clogged heads or prevent a permanent clog before it happens. 

Pictures aren't necessary, I want to test myself.

I have yet to find 1 MSDS pretreat that show all the chemicals in the pretreat as well as most the screen printing chemicals. That was a requirement for me. I had a few manufactures really try to tell me it was ok but in the end privately sent me the complete list, I simply wouldn't buy them. I wasn't always that way and started out with the nasty chemicals the first year till I learned what some of the effects it can have on a person and the environment. 

Like I said I would jump in if I can get a product that I can sell and feel comfortable doing so while being able to turn a profit and not have to work on the printer much, I am not as worried about working on the printer though. I've just seen horror stories on here with continuing issues but that also maybe user error, or lack of understanding of proper maintenance and the importance of it.


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## DreamIndustries (Feb 23, 2015)

The DTG only valid for 1-50 pieces in full color.

Everything else is for the screen printing, quality, quantity, size, speciality inks, color fastness, spot colors, touch, fabrics, potential... Ultimately versatility and professional quality.

Each technique has its place, but in DTG is very small. Press a button is not enough.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

DreamIndustries said:


> The DTG only valid for 1-50 pieces in full color.
> 
> Everything else is for the screen printing, quality, quantity, size, speciality inks, color fastness, spot colors, touch, fabrics, potential... Ultimately versatility and professional quality.
> 
> Each technique has its place, but in DTG is very small. Press a button is not enough.


 Don't say that to Peter, Neo Father. He advises he can do faster, cheaper 100 pieces 1 color then I can screen printing, I just laughed


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

I have printed a 2000 piece order via DTG and made $12k in 6 days doing so. So I am not sure what you are talking about. There is a small unknown company that prints close to half a BILLION (yes Billion with a B) dollars in DTG printed shirts...but yeah nobody makes any money doing DTG. I can guarantee I can print 100 different 1 color shirts faster than any screen printer. But definitely not 100 of the same 1 color design. There are DTG printers that can print 1000's of different designs per shift on a single machine. I don't know of another technique that offers this versatility. 

DTG is small for sure but it is the fastest growing segment of the entire printing industry. This argument has been going on for many years. It's very similar to the battle that was between Offset printers and Inkjet printers in the paper printing realm. Not to many offset printers being sold or utilized in today's market. EVERYTHING goes digital in time. EVERYTHING.


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## Jmelwak (Oct 23, 2013)

Press a button is enough for my business, In 9 mos i made more money doing dtg than any other thing i have done in my entire life! Its technology embrace it its coming.


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## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

LOL, so are you learning anything about your question Brian? Ha

There is a place for both Screen Printing and DTG, and one or both of them will be best for your needs.
It is going to depend on your art and your quantities. I think many people will seek out a DTG printer to test designs on a few shirts, especially if there are a lot of colors to deal with. At that point, if your design seems to be good to go, and you have enough quantity in mind, you might be best off looking for a screen printer to handle that order.

If you are looking to have designs for sale and make them a couple at a time when something sells, then you want either DTG or screen printed plastisol transfers.

If we pretend that the quality is the same for both screen printing and DTG, then you will want to seek out the method that can meet your needs and provide the best value. That might be DTG if you only need a few shirts with a lot of colors. It would probably be screen printing if you need any sort of quantity and about 6 colors or less.

Lets not forget about simulated process screen printing, and 4 color process screen printing. Both can produce a wide range of colors and keep the cost of screens down.

Also if you want any sort of special effect in your designs, like puff, leather, foil, glitter, glow in the dark, florescent, discharge, high density, gel, metallic, dye interactive, silicone, shimmer, reflective, crackle, etc and so on, well you're going to be wanting screen printing.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I am glad that those who have the DTG machines can do well. Maybe different areas have different standards, opinions, and so forth. I have a guy begging me to give him my small runs as he bought a DTG and in this area heat transfer and DTG is treated like some disease. Most even hate vinyl, why I bought a screen print numbering system.

Saying EVERYTHING will be digital is a bold statement. Cant wait to see a printer head pass shimmer or glitter ink, do Pantone matches. they have hard enough time passing white ink. I'M sure within time things will get better and better but everything digital probably not in our lifetime

Did you make $12,000 or did you gross $12,000 I only ask cause I've seen auto shops do 10-12 color 2000 piece jobs $6 which can result in many colors. 

The world is a very diverse place which allows us all to do what we like best or more importantly what our customers like best. I am not one sided and have learned of newer processes from these debates. Once there is something I think I can present to a customer I will likely jump on board and broaden my offerings but quitting one to replace the other will not likely happen


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

the whole problem with this entire thread is the "us vs. them" mentality. i do DTG, screen printing (6/4 manual), and heat press materials in my shop. i outsource embroidery and wide format printing. DTG is an ever growing segment of our industry, but screen printing will always have it's place as well. in my shop the two methods compliment one another; they don't compete. i really don't even care which one is busier so long as both as busy!  i've done large quantities with both methods. it really comes down to what my customers want.

my shirts are washed in a temp-controlled "warm" setting and dried along with everything else. many of my white ink shirts are washed right along with my jeans, and i never turn them inside out. i also do not hang-dry my shirts. i want to know how my product is lasting. chemistry has vastly improved in the DTG world, so now i have shirts with 20-30 washes that look the same as when i printed them. i'm currently using DuPont inks and Image Armour pretreat. will my shirts be around for 20 YEARS? i have no idea, but like @Dekay317 said, i don't need them to last that long.

so, really, this is an apples to oranges debate. i've chosen to have the two methods compliment each other, thereby giving me more options with my customers. i don't turn away 1 shirt orders, and i don't hesitate to take 1,000 shirt orders.


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## SwollShop (Feb 25, 2015)

anyone have any suggestions on a good starter machine?


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## Jmelwak (Oct 23, 2013)

for dtg i heard great things about the Spectra


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## SwollShop (Feb 25, 2015)

Jmelwak said:


> for dtg i heard great things about the Spectra


do you know how much they run?


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## Jmelwak (Oct 23, 2013)

i think they are like 8k or something? im about to get one soon i think still deciding


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## murtceps (Aug 11, 2010)

SwollShop said:


> do you know how much they run?


 Call Anthony at: Spectra 3000 DTG


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## bburgess053 (Mar 3, 2015)

Yes it has helped allot..ha ha ha! It is great that you guys really have a heated passion for the industry. There's allot of competition, with the industry and methods. Thanks allot guys!! It is allot to take in.


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## DreamIndustries (Feb 23, 2015)

Dekay317 said:


> I have printed a 2000 piece order via DTG and made $12k in 6 days doing so. So I am not sure what you are talking about. There is a small unknown company that prints close to half a BILLION (yes Billion with a B) dollars in DTG printed shirts...but yeah nobody makes any money doing DTG. I can guarantee I can print 100 different 1 color shirts faster than any screen printer. But definitely not 100 of the same 1 color design. There are DTG printers that can print 1000's of different designs per shift on a single machine. I don't know of another technique that offers this versatility.
> 
> DTG is small for sure but it is the fastest growing segment of the entire printing industry. This argument has been going on for many years. It's very similar to the battle that was between Offset printers and Inkjet printers in the paper printing realm. Not to many offset printers being sold or utilized in today's market. EVERYTHING goes digital in time. EVERYTHING.



This is not a war! DTG has the small quantities per design business. No more. I do not deny this, the same way that digital printing paper vs. the offset (toner and indigo, not inkjet please!).
Half billion in DTG t-shirts? Yes, no problem, I believe. These people know what their client and have focused their business in that direction.

And much of the industry wants to convert any process to digital, but that goal is still far from reality. Many years ago that there is digital printing paper? And there are still traditional offset printing. There must be a reason. Even recovering the letterpress. Because digital printing is something anyone can do by pressing a button, and that's not difference anyone.

Advocates of DTG only speak money, money, money ... And not everything in life is money. I want to feel fulfilled with the work I do. But everyone must do what he wants.

1st Productivity: Your 2,000 t-shirts I would have made in half day.

2nd Price: You've gained six dollars per piece, I could have charged two dollars per piece in full color. Who do you think your customer prefer to make production next time? And yet I make more money than you.

3rd Quality: People say it is the same reproduction quality, but let me hesitate. I order print small quantities and prototypes to a Kornit DTG machine (anything silly), and the result of production in screen printing is simply spectacular in comparison.

4th Versatility: In DTG you only CMYK process. You have no Fluor Inks, no Metallic inks with different thickness particle, no reflective inks, no high-density inks, no puff inks, no gel inks, no flock, no foil, no PMS inks... In DTG just a possibility finish, I can make a glossy or matte finish, with or without touch... What is your maximum print size in DTG? I can print up to 70x100 cm. smooth, or more if desired. It's just a matter of making a bigger screen. You can print nylon, polyester or anything else other than cotton in DTG? I do.

Screen printing is an Art that has many properties that digital is far from reaching yet. I derive little work to another company with Kornit DTG system. I have no problems, no need to buy any expensive machine, I have no maintenance, no technical problems... Every business has its audience and technique. But you have to know what your business, your 2,000 pieces operation have lost time and money. You could have won $ 4 per piece without lifting a finger.

Also, think about this please, the digital path is designed so that tomorrow everything has a printer-shirts at home, as today have a printer paper. I buy a DTG someday, but not today, not my business idea.

I repeat, this is not a war, but every technique in his place.
Press a button in not enough for me and my customers.


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## debbbbsy (Jan 11, 2011)

> This is not a war! DTG has the small quantities per design business. No more. I do not deny this, the same way that digital printing paper vs. the offset (toner and indigo, not inkjet please!).
> Half billion in DTG t-shirts? Yes, no problem, I believe. These people know what their client and have focused their business in that direction.
> 
> And much of the industry wants to convert any process to digital, but that goal is still far from reality. Many years ago that there is digital printing paper? And there are still traditional offset printing. There must be a reason. Even recovering the letterpress. Because digital printing is something anyone can do by pressing a button, and that's not difference anyone.
> ...


I trained as a screenprinter 32 years ago. When I started we only had water based inks. we racked the shirts. People don't realise that while DTG is new, screenprinting is also still evloving,it is offering the customer more variety.

I agree totally with Jorge.

2000 T-s in 6 days. That's not good business sense when it could have been screenprinted in a day. A customer that pays over the odds will either feel cheated when he realises he overpayed or will not remain in business.

Debs


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

Every one seems to be looking at this from the printers perspective, which is understandable for a forum such as this.
However, the customers point of view may be different.
Digital printing, be it garment, graphic or paper, offers the customer a level of speed and flexibility that was undreamed of and unaffordable a few years ago.

The customer who wants single pieces, or short runs gets a great product, on demand, at an acceptable price. The customer who wants a volume print run, and is able to wait a few days, doesn't even come close to getting value for money when using digital methods.

Digital printing has done very well in exploiting and developing 'new' market niches - namely low volume and personalisation. 
But that doesn't mean that the older market niches have ceased to exist. There are still plenty of customers who want a volume print run, at a low unit cost. Currently, these customers only get truly competitive pricing using traditional methods.

Digital garment printing is still in its infancy and is developing fast. Digital graphics printing is about 15 years more mature than digital garment printing. It still doesn't come close to surpassing offset lithography, for price or speed, for volume runs.
Non traditional processes still thrive in the graphics printing indurstry. There is no reason to assume that things will be any different in the garment industry.

Both screen printing and DTG will continue to survive alongside each other.


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