# MORE F&M Problems....you name it, we have it !



## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

SO....I came here tonight to look around to see if we were the only ones having issues with F&M and I guess we are not judging by the thread just below this. 

I made this post a few months back....

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t96666.html

lets just say the issues started from here and just keep happening. I know what you are all going to say....go with a NEW company. Well thats easy to say but after you have built a relationship with a company and know what process they have and know exactly what to order its not really that easy. 

After this first issue we were lucky enough to get all the big wigs on the phone, we sent back sample shirts, pictures of shirts, you name it. We actually went directly to the F&M factory to see first hand what is going on. 

We now don't even deal with the normal sales people anymore rather we have the personal cell phone number of the Line Manager who we have to speak with in order to get things done right. Yup...I said it right....we TEXT MESSAGE the guy working the line and making our prints. 

So our last order (which is over 3 weeks over due to our customer now ) has been reprinted 3 times. Each time is a new or existing issue but it seems that in order to save cost F&M line workers are adding PUFF AGENT to all the prints in order to save money on ink. Also the PUFF AGENT makes the designs more opaque so that the "Beach Shops" will not complain about show through on the designs. 

From what I can gather its an internal management battle they are having with the line workers and upper management. 

I DON'T WANT MY DESIGNS TO BE PUFFY. I want them to be crisp and detailed and I want them to stick to the shirts and not fall off which is what is happening now. We run a retail clothing company and can't afford to have customers pay $20.00 for a shirt and call saying the design fell off. We might as well go out of business now. 

My press is brand new....its hot and we are not NEWBS. We print thousands of shirts so we have the press technique down. 

Here are some images of our latest crappy transfers...

These HAVE NOT been washed. They are straight off the press. 






















































































Every time we get an order from F&M its a 70% chance its going to be a problem. The only reason we have stayed with them is because now when we call they print is a new batch NO QUESTIONS ASKED and ship it out sometimes next day air. On one occasion they had someone drive them to us on a weekend cause we needed them....they are 4 hours away. 

I am just getting very tired of this and this most recent order has been printed over and over and we have customers who are not happy. 

I realize that there is probably nothing that can come from this thread but let it be a note to potential customers of what you might be in for. Its really a shame because a happy customer tells 2 people and an unhappy customer tells 20. 

To the guy in the other thread with the peeling transfers....I feel really bad for you. Your chances of getting it resolved are very slim. I think you would be better off just cutting your loses and using a new supplier. 

I have friends in Florida who also started using F&M and they are having the same issues. It really seems to be a combination of issues from the "DIRECT TO SCREEN" burning method they now use, inconsistencies with ink, and the sheer size of F&M operation does not lend to well to quality control. 

I will be contacting anyone I can in charge tomorrow if for anything just to give them a hard time. I mean my customers are *****ing at me...I need to return the favor. 

Excuse Typos...


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

I'll try to add updates to this if possible. 

Off the phone with our sales manager and the owner. There have been some complaints of late with transfer falling off and I know of one such company in Florida that is having the same issue as we are having. 

According to the owner they trimmed back the clear glue that goes under the color in order to stop the ghosting issue and they decreased the amount of Puff agent. The problem is that by pulling the glue back by a point and trapping it under the color, the glue is not covering the outer edges of the design which is the reason for the lifting and peeling. 

They admit that this process is fine for a commercial pneumatic press that can place much more uniform and higher pressures. These presses are able to "squish" the glus back out 1 point in order to adhere the outter edges of the design. The problem is that doens't help the small guy who is using a clamshell press. (we are using a Hotronix)

They did suggest that we look into getting a better quality pneumatic press and given the volume we do its probably about time that we look to go that route. 

So back to the Fashion Forumla process that we had been so accustomed to and prefer....
They state that this formula no longer exists and in order for us to get that formula in the future will be a "special order" and will be added cost. 

As for the glue issue on the current process....I am not sure what their solution is at this point. 

For the guy in the other thread with the peeling issues....
I will tell you that we set our temp. at 370 degrees and we set our pressure as high as it will go in order to get the best transfer. These numbers are much higher then what F&M suggests. 

Our batch is set to go on press at 5AM and we will have them on Wednesday....I will update again. 

Hoping for the best !


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

When did they discontinue the Fashion formula? I just recieved an order (mid December)using the Fashion print.

Just checked their site...Fashion is still listed and there is no mention of higher cost that I can see.


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

They didn't discontinue it but the formula as it was was changed. It may not look and feel the same. 

With that being said our orders were always a bit on the custom side so our needs and requests may be a bit outside what are available to the public or listed to the public. 

As for our last order....

We received all the transfers and they all worked out great. We are holding out faith that we can still continue our relationship with F&M. We are currently shopping pneumatic presses.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I turely think the big issue is them adding the puff,, that stuff is always unpredictable,, 
Please keep us posted,,
MMM


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

The puff was a huge issue for us on several orders over the summer. The only time we received NON puffy transfers was when we had the line manager print our run for us.


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

DUBKORPS said:


> The puff was a huge issue for us on several orders over the summer. The only time we received NON puffy transfers was when we had the line manager print our run for us.


No issues on my 2 recent jobs after testing for clear coating, PUFF effects or peeling. The Fashion formula job had some edge lift but I used as much pressure as my manual Mighty Pres could handle andbumped the temp from 350 as the directions suggested to 375. When I did the Athletic job I used the same pressure at 325 with no issues.

They have other issues regarding customer service and communication but these 2 jobs have had no customer complaints yet.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

So, let me get this straight, they print low-run custom transfers that are not compatible with standard heat presses, one needs a high-pressure pneumatic press?? To "squeeze" the glue out 1 pt and keep edges from peeling up??
Thats BS. The transfers I had that had 1pt clear OUTSIDE the design had the clear peeling up and after bumping the temp settings up to no effect, I dialed the pressure up on my MP so high, I had to almost lift myself off the ground to latch it. The clear STILL peeled up on the edges.

Puff additive, lol. I'm surprised they aren't printing transfers in China or Bangladesh (yet).


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## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

I for one do not use puff additives in our transfers. I have yet to find a puff additive
that has held up to one of the simplest of test washes we do which
basically will consists of running a garmet thru
the wash cycles three times then letting it dry under a warm setting. The additive if added
in the exact amounts will at best produce a 
slightly more opaque design, but carries a risk
if the transfers manufacturer overcures it as will will lose its adhesive abilities and "fall apart" after just 1 or a few washings...and if its undercured you'll get an expanded design which will generally look muddied when applied.


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## maxD (Jul 3, 2009)

Reading this thread I got a bit discouraged - I was planning to order from F&M in the near future. Their prices seem very good!

Are there people who had NO problems with new batches from F&M ? Who are satisfied and can recommend them ?


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

We continued to work with F&M and since this thread was created we have not received any bad batches. Their customer service has been on point. We have an $1890.00 order arriving today. 

From what I can gather is they tried to make some changes / improvements and some of it did not work out as planned. We have since been receiving the same quality as we had been early last year. 

I would not be discouraged from using them. 

Russ


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Yes i have used them after,, with no problems,,


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