# Wash fastness of plastisol transfers??



## justkaran (Mar 5, 2011)

I have been getting garments screen printed since over 5 years and have faced absolutely no problem with durability of the prints. For that matter, I have even put one screen printed t-shirt to be used as a mop, but still, the print was stood strong as steel and did not deteriorate at all!!

But is this possible for plastisol transfers aswell?? How good are plastisol transfers when it comes to wash fastness compared with screen prints?? How many washing cycles can a normal plastisol transfer handle??


----------



## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Plastisol transfers will last as long as direct screen print when made and applied correctly.


----------



## justkaran (Mar 5, 2011)

splathead said:


> Plastisol transfers will last as long as direct screen print when made and applied correctly.


If that is so then it really is a good news Joe 
Can u advice me what really are the right parameters (temperature, pressure, time) to put on transfers for various fabric types??

and if any special care is to be taken while washing transfer printed garments?


----------



## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Just follow the instructions you get with the transfers. If you're going to use them on anything less than 50% cotton content you need to let the printer know so they can use low-bleed inks.

No different care instructions than direct screen printing. I could tell you to label your garments recommending washing shirts inside-out. That's always best regardless of decoration method. But who would listen?


----------



## justkaran (Mar 5, 2011)

splathead said:


> Plastisol transfers will last as long as direct screen print when made and applied correctly.


Well, I think that direct printed garments will always have an edge upon transfer printed ones.. since in direct screen printing, the ink gets to touch the fabric directly. In the 1st coat, some bit of the ink gets absorbed by the fabric and in the subsequent coats, the ink stands upon the lower coats. Thus what we get is a print with its foundation in the fabric..

While for plastisol transfers, the entire layer rests upon the fabric with nothing going inside..

Thus i feel that screen printed designs will hold to the garment for longer and would stand severe washing conditions opposed to transferred ones!!

its just my observation guys, please pitch in your inputs!!


----------



## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

justkaran said:


> Well, I think that direct printed garments will always have an edge upon transfer printed ones.. since in direct screen printing, the ink gets to touch the fabric directly. In the 1st coat, some bit of the ink gets absorbed by the fabric and in the subsequent coats, the ink stands upon the lower coats. Thus what we get is a print with its foundation in the fabric..


You're underestimating the force a heat press provides. 

Suffice to say both direct screen print and plastisol transfers will outlast the garment it's printed on. So the argument is mute.


----------



## justkaran (Mar 5, 2011)

well if that really is so then its great news 
coz transfers make life so easy


----------



## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

justkaran said:


> Well, I think that direct printed garments will always have an edge upon transfer printed ones.. since in direct screen printing, the ink gets to touch the fabric directly. In the 1st coat, some bit of the ink gets absorbed by the fabric and in the subsequent coats, the ink stands upon the lower coats. Thus what we get is a print with its foundation in the fabric..
> 
> While for plastisol transfers, the entire layer rests upon the fabric with nothing going inside..
> 
> ...


Hi Karen. In actuality transfers aren't resting on top
of the fabric (if that was the case you wouldnt need
pressure to apply it just heat) whats happening is 
that the tempurature on your press if set hot enough will liquidfy the ink and along with the pressure applied to the design "pushes" the ink into
the ever so small holes in the fabric creating a bond
if you will with the garmet...when the pressure is released and you peel the garmet if done properly 
the result is a transfered image that is cured and ready to wear


----------



## justkaran (Mar 5, 2011)

ooh.. now i got it.. well, that makes sense Frank!!
in that case i can breathe easy and offer transfer prints to my customers withput being worried about their robustness!


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Most transfer makers recommend a pressure around 60psi, quite a bit. Try pushing a scale to 60 lbs with your thumb.


----------



## justkaran (Mar 5, 2011)

wormil said:


> Most transfer makers recommend a pressure around 60psi, quite a bit. Try pushing a scale to 60 lbs with your thumb.


does overdoing the pressure make the situation worse?? or more pressure is good??


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Overdoing the pressure is more work on your press and you if it's a manual. In the series of tests I did, I found little or no visible difference with the pressure set between 4-8 (out of 10). At 9 & 10, butt registered colors started to blend. I usually press at 6 or 7. Other presses may vary.


----------



## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

franktheprinter said:


> Hi Karen. In actuality transfers aren't resting on top
> of the fabric (if that was the case you wouldnt need
> pressure to apply it just heat) whats happening is
> that the tempurature on your press if set hot enough will liquidfy the ink and along with the pressure applied to the design "pushes" the ink into
> ...



So with this new under standing of "pushing" the ink into the fabric, how far can you push the limits of things like soft hand additives? 

And is it possible to use discharging agents?


----------



## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

wormil said:


> Most transfer makers recommend a pressure around 60psi, quite a bit. Try pushing a scale to 60 lbs with your thumb.


Realistically, the comparison i feel is alittle harsh as you are using a press with a handle(lever if you will)
the amount of energy used is aided abit by using it.

If you are having pressure problems..George Knight offers presses with a roll bar handle that takes very little effort to clamp down,
and Stahls offers semi-automated presses where with the push of a button you can press your design

I tell my customers you need enough pressure to be able to clamp a dollar bill and not be able to pull and
have it slip out or move easily... i know of afew customers of mine in their 80's and they have no problems


----------



## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

justkaran said:


> does overdoing the pressure make the situation worse?? or more pressure is good??


We found thru testing that our transfers will take quite abit of pressure abuse and not signifigantly change...it is true on butt registered designs you'll
get a bleeding of inks, but its ususally under the most extreme pressure increases...i would always reccomend using whatever pressure your transfer
supplier suggests first, then if your having issues
try incremental changes up or down til you get your
desired result but keep the other variables constant
(time and temperature) that way you can isolate and fix the problem


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

franktheprinter said:


> Realistically, the comparison i feel is alittle harsh as you are using a press with a handle(lever if you will)
> the amount of energy used is aided abit by using it.


I don't understand what comparison you think I'm making? The point was 60psi is quite a bit of pressure. The OP was concerned that heat presses weren't enough pressure to push the ink into the fabric.


----------



## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

doskalata said:


> So with this new under standing of "pushing" the ink into the fabric, how far can you push the limits of things like soft hand additives?


Hi Justin. Experimentation would be your best best here as i know of no published accounts of the effects of additives in conjunction with increasing the pressure....


----------



## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

franktheprinter said:


> Hi Justin. Experimentation would be your best best here as i know of no published accounts of the effects of additives in conjunction with increasing the pressure....


i wasnt really curious about the pressure, more so just the possibility being a reality or a fantasy .


----------



## PrimalScreen (Apr 20, 2010)

Also ...the transfered design will get a glossy effect on the garment if you leave it on the press to long


----------



## Got T (Mar 12, 2012)

Did anyone every answer this question from the first post, "How many washing cycles can a normal plastisol transfer handle??" I've been watching this forum for a short while but do wonder if screen printing does last longer than plastisol. You folks that heat press say 50-50 t's or make transfers for such folks, just how many washes do you expect your t's to be good for until small cracks show up down the road? I use to hear the transfer's will last as long as the shirts, I see this may be true on screen printing but I have my doubts about it being true with plastisol heat transfer's of my own.


----------



## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Got T said:


> Did anyone every answer this question from the first post, "How many washing cycles can a normal plastisol transfer handle??"


I answered it here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t178938.html#post1059063


----------



## Got T (Mar 12, 2012)

when made and applied correctly

So how does one know if made and applied correctly from the start, hum? I guess it's hard to say if you don't know either but we just wondered if plastisol transfers will last for how long vs our normal screen printed purchases.... How about another answer from someone else please?


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Got T said:


> So how does one know if made and applied correctly from the start, hum? I guess it's hard to say if you don't know either but we just wondered if plastisol transfers will last for how long vs our normal screen printed purchases.... How about another answer from someone else please?


How do you know when screenprinting has been done correctly? You don't unless you test it, same with transfers. You have to apply then test them. Personally I stretch them to see how much they can take before cracking. Others scrape or pick at them although you can pick off a screenprint if the ink is thin.

Durability of plastisol is a matter of thickness and the current trend is a very light hand so thin ink will not be as durable as thick. I have not seen any difference between direct or transfer.


----------



## Got T (Mar 12, 2012)

Wormil, Good reply and thank you. Less there is a guage for less experienced folks, how does one measure thickness? Besides years in the business which many of you have in order (like I'm more of a buyer/seller) you gained this knowledge, but do you look more at the transfer before pressed or once on the clothing to determine this? Gross issues show up right from the get go, don't like the ones that like 6-12 months to appear. Is there a rating for thickness when purchasing transfers or is this why the big name places are so well liked because they make their products thicker so folks just don't have issues vs. others that skimp if I dare us that term? Franktheprinter, how do you measure your plastisol thickness during production for long life...? Not picking on you, just wondering about a printers view. Thanks folks!


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

On the print side, a more open mesh and thicker emulsion will give a thicker layer of ink. Also a softer squeegee blade to some extent. The closer the squeegee is to perpendicular to the screen, the thinner the ink deposit. Printing transfers requires consistency. 

To gauge ink thickness you need some reference point. If you get enough samples from different companies you'll notice right away some are thicker than others. In the 80's most everyone printed much thicker than now and the printing easily outlasted the shirt (and by outlast I mean the shirt would fall to pieces before the printing). With the focus on a softer hand, that isn't really true now but hippies and grunge are memories and we buy clothes already distressed, no one wears out a shirt anymore.


----------



## Got T (Mar 12, 2012)

So, do they just turn up the amount of ink when making the transfers, is it that simple? I looked at about 30 transfers on hand today and most are the same thickness but for a few that are 2 and 3 color transfers which parts of them appeared to be layered. Unless one must order differently, the big outfits thickness didn't appear to be any better than the guy down the block's stuff. Have you ever asked mfg company to give you 25% more for example and if so what did they do/say?


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Got T said:


> Have you ever asked mfg company to give you 25% more for example and if so what did they do/say?


Some companies offer athletic transfers which may or may not be thicker than their norm. Or sometimes you can tell them it's for athletic clothing and get a thicker transfer. The problem is that transfer gelling requires consistent heat/rate and if you change the ink thickness then you probably will need to change the dryer speed and/or temp so you can't just arbitrarily mix things up.


----------

