# Test samples of DTG after 16 washes and Dries



## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

As promised, I rather a number of sample DTG printed shirts at the recent SGIA Oct.15, 08 in Atlanta, Ga.
I cut each in half and I wash them using Costco Kirkland washing Soap in a new Kenmore front load. These shirts all were washed and dried 16 times.
The washed halfs are on the right in all pictures and the unwashed halfs are on the left as posted.
Each has the name of the DTG printer. Each was printed by the companies selling the printers at the show. 

You can decide which is the best and the worst.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

The DTG Printers did a good job at the SGIA SHOW.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

thanks Dave, from what I can see

Kornit - pretty bad wash quality of the colors on white ink.
Anajet - Very nice all round, especially for 16 washes
T-jet - White ink is peeling and cracking. I would have thought the new white ink/pretreatment they have would have done a better job. Perhaps they over pretreated BUT, wouldn't they have been using their $10k autopretreatment machine?. Their white t-shirt is pretty bad too, do you know if they pretreated the white t-shirts?
Flexi - On dark looks very good. On the white t-shirt it looks terrible! How/why would they give those out as samples is beyond me. Doesn't give me much faith in whatever inkset they used.
Brother - I want to make LOVE with it right now.


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

Thanks for the posts/updates/photos. I'll have to take a good look at the different printers again when ISS rolls around. Seemed like consistency and maintenance were always a big issue with them when I was at the shows previously. Consistency seems to be getting better. Hopefully this year I won't go walking by a booth where there's a 50% chance the printer is off, the case is open, and someone says "maybe it's the other fuse" 

I want to check the new Brother out too, but it'll definately exceed my alloted spending.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Did you pickup any Brother prints on white t-shirts?


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## Ceejay (Sep 26, 2008)

I was told that all the DTG's run the same Du Pont ink. Is this true? If so, how come such a different result?


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## Ceejay (Sep 26, 2008)

By the way Dave, thanks for a great post.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

zhenjie said:


> Did you pickup any Brother prints on white t-shirts?


 No sir I did not pick up a Brother sample on white. I own a Brother 541 and can assure you that I have printed thousands of shirts without one complant, from me or my custormers.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Ceejay said:


> I was told that all the DTG's run the same Du Pont ink. Is this true? If so, how come such a different result?


 
Most do, but Brother does not.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Ceejay said:


> I was told that all the DTG's run the same Du Pont ink. Is this true? If so, how come such a different result?


That use to be the case but now there are many different inksets. However most people still use the same Dupont white ink (except for Kornit and Brother).


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

Thanks Dave for doing all those wash tests. It is always nice to see from real people, of course you never know how they are pretreated and how normal people are going to do them but it is nice to see the white getting good results.
I have the anajet and have had good results on the wash tests from them but man I want a brother so bad.

Can't wait to see all that happens in the coming months. Thanks again for all the effort put into showing everyone the washability


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

martinwoods said:


> Thanks Dave for doing all those wash tests. It is always nice to see from real people, of course you never know how they are pretreated and how normal people are going to do them but it is nice to see the white getting good results.
> I have the anajet and have had good results on the wash tests from them but man I want a brother so bad.
> 
> Can't wait to see all that happens in the coming months. Thanks again for all the effort put into showing everyone the washability


The Anajet sample with the swords did quit well.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

skdave said:


> The Anajet sample with the swords did quit well.


 
It looks like it
I have one from about 2 years ago and it still looks fine. My husband even wears them to work to save his own shirts and they go through a lot.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Where are the samples from DTG? I see all the others but them. Did you get any other white shirt samples besided flexi, tjet and Mimaki? I guess not probably since they arent on there. Great job getting samples and doing wash tests . It is amazing how much the white shirts faded, I never get fading that way. They must not have been curing them well or something. Or it could even be that I am still using the R and H inks in my machine


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> Where are the samples from DTG? I see all the others but them. Did you get any other white shirt samples besided flexi, tjet and Mimaki? I guess not probably since they arent on there. Great job getting samples and doing wash tests . It is amazing how much the white shirts faded, I never get fading that way. They must not have been curing them well or something. Or it could even be that I am still using the R and H inks in my machine


No I didn't get the DTG. I missed them somehow.
Yes I was amazed with the fading on the whites.


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## Kimsie (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow, thank you for your hard work and time of course doing all of this!!

Dave do you have a Brother dtg?

Bobbielee do you have a DTG?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Kimsie, I have the dtg HM1


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I think the Mimaki did the best on white shirts. Is that a discharge printer? No noticeable filibration. Good job.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Kimsie said:


> Wow, thank you for your hard work and time of course doing all of this!!
> 
> Dave do you have a Brother dtg?
> 
> Bobbielee do you have a DTG?


 
Yes I have a Brother 541 and soon a Brother 782.
We also have 42" Sublimation printer for those over size printed t-shirts


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Thanks for the GREAT post, Dave. The side by side pictures are great! Thanks for taking the time to photograph and share your results!


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

how much is to much when it comes to pretreatment?


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## heavenlystock (Oct 31, 2008)

I am new to all this screen printing language. What does DTG mean? Is this screen printing or heat transfer? Thanks for the help.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

It is neither  DTG is Direct to Garment Printing. It is a machine, or many different machines that print directly onto the garment with water based inks, from a printer.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

heavenlystock said:


> I am new to all this screen printing language. What does DTG mean? Is this screen printing or heat transfer? Thanks for the help.


This should help: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-articles/t42295.html

Here's a video showing one of the DTG machines printing a t-shirt.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

Dave, 

It is awesome that you decided to put these printers to the test but I do not think collecting shirts from a trade show by a vendor would give you the truest results. 

Please keep in mind that at these trade shows they are printing these shirts just for your initial viewing and probably do not care too much whether or not the shirts are properly cured if that is even a thought. It is more of a "let's get these shirts printed so the crowd can see them" atmosphere. In addition, the vendors in most scenarios (even the manufactures for that matter) seldom have as much printing/curing knowledge as a DTG owner would who uses the machine day in and day out for production. Most of these printers (especially ones printing on black) require extended curing times up to around 5 minutes. Even if they pre-printed some shirts which they may have, your results still are no testament to the printer’s true performance. Some of the results you displayed may be relative to the printer but for the most part it seems as though there were issues with the actual curing of the shirts which is leaves the operator and curing device (dryer) to blame. This is an area that requires specific attention to detail and tons of testing to perfect. Ask any DTG owner and they would agree.

A better way to truly test the shirts would be to seek out DTG owners and order a sample. These companies would obviously invest time and money into perfecting print quality and production. Not sure who owns what type of printer out there but you will never get the best results from a trade show or the machine manufacturer/distributor. Instead try calling up well known t-shirt companies that may have DTG printers or any for that matter and ask what type of machine they use and order samples from there. I can assure you that your results may drastically change.

Bottom line (for all readers): Do your own testing and research and trust me when I tell you this GET YOUR SAMPLE FROM A DTG OWNER.


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## heavenlystock (Oct 31, 2008)

Is this a type of printing that can be done with one machine from someones home with excellent long wearing results? Is this as good or better than screen printing?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

matius89 said:


> Dave,
> 
> It is awesome that you decided to put these printers to the test but I do not think collecting shirts from a trade show by a vendor would give you the truest results.
> 
> ...


 
I have to totally agree with this  I myself got a ton of samples at the shows before my purchase of my machine. Some washed great and some did not. I know that it totally has to do with who is running the machine, how the results will come out.

I think that all of the machines can print comparable quality, depending on the settings they are printed with, and how they are cured. It really all has to do with the operator of that particular machine. I cannot say this about the brother or kornit, as they are different machines, and not based on epson heads. But the ones that are epson based printers all have pretty much the same capablilites, just some have different features then others. Depending on what features you are looking for, really for me was the deciding factor of what machine to buy.

But it is nice to see all the different samples  and the effort it took to collect them all and do wash tests. Thanks so much Dave for doing this.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

heavenlystock said:


> Is this a type of printing that can be done with one machine from someones home with excellent long wearing results? Is this as good or better than screen printing?


 
Dtg printing fills a complete seperate market then screen printing. Here is an article that Mark/Daguide wrote that explains it really well http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t41828.html, if you click on the link in the first post, you will be able to read a very thorough article of what market dtg is good for. 

DTG is not a replacement for screen printing as it is a totally different type of printing all together. It is great for doing designs that have a large amount of colors, or doing smaller runs then screen printing. It is not something you would compare to screen printing though, as it fills a complete different need. They are also great for printing where space is an issue, as they take very little room, where as screen printing equipment really requires a much greater space.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

Sunnydayz,

Even with Kornit and Brother it still has a LOT to do with the operator. I know owners of both and the general consensus seems to be that you have to get the right people printing under the right circumstances and the machine would do the rest. If the shirts are washing away or fading, then somewhere during the curing process there is an issue that has to be addressed.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> I have to totally agree with this  I myself got a ton of samples at the shows before my purchase of my machine. Some washed great and some did not. I know that it totally has to do with who is running the machine, how the results will come out.
> 
> I think that all of the machines can print comparable quality, depending on the settings they are printed with, and how they are cured. It really all has to do with the operator of that particular machine. I cannot say this about the brother or kornit, as they are different machines, and not based on epson heads. But the ones that are epson based printers all have pretty much the same capablilites, just some have different features then others. Depending on what features you are looking for, really for me was the deciding factor of what machine to buy.
> 
> But it is nice to see all the different samples  and the effort it took to collect them all and do wash tests. Thanks so much Dave for doing this.


Well space is still a concern since you will need a dryer to cure the garments. Most shirts need approximately 2-5 minutes of curing time the latter being the darker garments. With this comes the need for a dryer. Some are smaller then others but for the most part they are all pretty big. There has been some cases where people tried other curing methods (i.e. used a heat transfer press to hover over garment for a long duration of time) but the print colors may look a bit off due to the platen being very close. Then there is the worry of whether or not the shirt is properly cured - and that is a nightmare in itself. 

My thoughts: If you are going to invest in a printer that can range from $15K to $275K, make sure you have the room to accommodate a (not good or okay) but GREAT dryer. This is the printers partner, second half, buddy, best friend, and it REALLY needs it to be a good dryer.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

Sorry - I quoted the wrong post in my last post. I mean to quote 'Sunnydaze' reply to 'Heavenlystock'.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

matius89 said:


> Sunnydayz,
> 
> Even with Kornit and Brother it still has a LOT to do with the operator. I know owners of both and the general consensus seems to be that you have to get the right people printing under the right circumstances and the machine would do the rest. If the shirts are washing away or fading, then somewhere during the curing process there is an issue that has to be addressed.


 
Oh I do agree that the results rely largely on the printer operator. I was just making it clear that they use different print heads and I did not want to make a statement about a machine, that is built different then mine, that I have not had experience with. I myself do not know whether the Kornit or Brother is a good machine or not, as I have not run one. I do know that the epson based printers when it comes down to it, are basically built with the same concept and parts, just different features. That was basically my point. 

I actually think the other machines in my opinion have greater detail due to having higher DPI printheads  I also don't think that the brother nor the Kornit can get the extreme detail as they are much lower dpi then the epson printheads. 

Printer operator is always the largest factor in the results a machine will put out 

It will be interesting to me to see what the feedback will be on the brother machines with white once they are out in the field by customers that purchase them. The way I see it is that brothers reputation is built on a printer that is low maintenance and always ready to go. I think with adding the white ink, it might change that opinion, especially if people expect it to run as flawlessly, with little upkeep as the previous brother printer. This will be the most telling to me, to see how people react to the maintenance involved with printing white ink


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> It will be interesting to me to see what the feedback will be on the brother machines with white once they are out in the field by customers that purchase them. The way I see it is that brothers reputation is built on a printer that is low maintenance and always ready to go. I think with adding the white ink, it might change that opinion, especially if people expect it to run as flawlessly, with little upkeep as the previous brother printer. This will be the most telling to me, to see how people react to the maintenance involved with printing white ink


 I am in agreement with you. I definitely would love to see results as well. I know printing on dark garments with white is no easy task and if Brother can make it easy then a lot of DTG owners may want to consider jumping ship.


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

Dunno bout others, but my Brother 541 takes up very little space, and my drying mechanism is the same 15"x15" heat press I utilize for dye sublimation and other stuff. All in all, probably about a 6' x 6' work area. 

Also, operator error is very minor in my opinion with the GT541. The variables are very little and when a mistake is made, it usually compromises the shirt immediately, not after a wash.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

I have been doing trade shows for 40 years and I fully agree with the stress of a trade show to pull of a perfect print job is difficult at best. 
I will be happy to wash test again if owner/ printers want to provide printed shirts. If so May suggest that the same print is used in all the different printers.
Let the games begin !!


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

joeshaul said:


> Dunno bout others, but my Brother 541 takes up very little space, and my drying mechanism is the same 15"x15" heat press I utilize for dye sublimation and other stuff. All in all, probably about a 6' x 6' work area.
> 
> Also, operator error is very minor in my opinion with the GT541. The variables are very little and when a mistake is made, it usually compromises the shirt immediately, not after a wash.


How exactly do you cure your garments with the 15"x15" heat press? Does the GT541 print on black garments (use white ink)?

Also we are not talking about mistake made during printing but instead are talking about parts of the design washing/fading away after shirt is washed. This is a trait that is relative to curing.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

skdave said:


> I have been doing trade shows for 40 years and I fully agree with the stress of a trade show to pull of a perfect print job is difficult at best.
> I will be happy to wash test again if owner/ printers want to provide printed shirts. If so May suggest that the same print is used in all the different printers.
> Let the games begin !!



Sounds like an interesting game.


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

matius89 said:


> How exactly do you cure your garments with the 15"x15" heat press? Does the GT541 print on black garments (use white ink)?
> 
> Also we are not talking about mistake made during printing but instead are talking about parts of the design washing/fading away after shirt is washed. This is a trait that is relative to curing.


Negative, Brother hasn't had a white ink DTG until this month's unveiling. The ink sets at 350 degrees fahrenheit after 35 seconds. We went to three different shows (ASD, ISS, and SGIA I believe) and researched it heavily before making our purchase. 

I wanted something that my mother could run by herself if I wasn't around, and even our third partner who spends maybe one day a month with us is capable of running it. 

The very first shirts that I ever made are starting to have some fibrillation occuring but still look great a foot away. The stitching is also coming undone and the garment as a whole has suffered from stains and such. They're my company shirts, I made em in March, worn and washed every week and always have one on until I go to sleep. 

When we first saw it, it was being ran at Brother's booth and operated by individuals that worked for Brother (although Stitch City is whom we eventually bought from since Brother didn't sell directly). The gentleman we talked to at the Brother booth was the same person who came out and did our install and training. Basically, we bought the product because what they showed us at the show held up, the research we did showed it held up, and while it may be limited in the scope of things, it was just as easy as they said it was.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I also cure with a heat 16 x 20 heat press and get great results with my HM1 with white ink. You do not need a dryer to cure dtg prints, a heat press works fine  I have everything I need in a 10 x 12 room, and get great prints with the setup I have. Matius89 what dtg printer are you using?


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

While I agree that the operators at shoes are quite inconsistent, you'd think that the manufacturer/distributors would at least have the curing of t-shirts PERFECT, especially the big companies that have been around. How hard is it to find the right setting and cure it at a trade show? As you said, they should have done testing, even more so then a DTG owner since they actually make the machine. If they can't cure the t-shirts properly what happens when you, as a customer has curing issues. They wouldn't be able to give you any good answers!


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

zhenjie said:


> While I agree that the operators at shoes are quite inconsistent, you'd think that the manufacturer/distributors would at least have the curing of t-shirts PERFECT, especially the big companies that have been around. How hard is it to find the right setting and cure it at a trade show? As you said, they should have done testing, even more so then a DTG owner since they actually make the machine. If they can't cure the t-shirts properly what happens when you, as a customer has curing issues. They wouldn't be able to give you any good answers!


I think you make a very good point. While trade shows may not get you examples of the best prints possible with a machine- _they should_. At one show I got an Anajet sample- they printed one in front of me and I could see it was not perfect. Then they pulled one out of a box to send with me- it was well done.It cost them something to do it this way- but had I bought an Anajet- I would have had much more confidence in their training/support after the sale because someone there actually knew how to print a shirt correctly.

Another consideration is that while the printers are similar, the inks are not all that similar. Cure times vary radically and color intensity and washability vary a lot too in the CMYK (most but not all, recommend using the DuPont white so that would be the same for most printers)


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

zhenjie said:


> While I agree that the operators at shoes are quite inconsistent, you'd think that the manufacturer/distributors would at least have the curing of t-shirts PERFECT, especially the big companies that have been around. How hard is it to find the right setting and cure it at a trade show? As you said, they should have done testing, even more so then a DTG owner since they actually make the machine. If they can't cure the t-shirts properly what happens when you, as a customer has curing issues. They wouldn't be able to give you any good answers!


Yes, totally agree. There's no excuse for a equipment vendor to spend several thousand dollars to setup up at a major trade show, and give away samples of their product that will "break down". What's quite interesting about this thread is that the frequent forum posters that actually sell this equipment have yet to respond.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

fdsales said:


> Yes, totally agree. There's no excuse for a equipment vendor to spend several thousand dollars to setup up at a major trade show, and give away samples of their product that will "break down". What's quite interesting about this thread is that the frequent forum posters that actually sell this equipment have yet to respond.



Brian,

It does not make sense to spend the great amount of money, and time, needed to exhibit at a trade show and hand out anything less then a perfect sample shirt. I can only speak for my company in stating that, when we exhibit, the one item we take care to concentrate on the most is what gets printed at the show and what the potential customer is handed. Because that is how every exhibitor should be viewing those people coming to their booths - as a "potential customer". And if those people are given anything other then a steller product to see, and to test wash, the word "potential" will be quickly removed. We are using our SpeedTreater automatic pretreater to pretreat shirts at shows now but I see the majority of direct to garment printer manufacturers bringing in blank shirts that had been been pretreated before the show. That should take the factor of improper pretreating, a big reason for poor washability, away as a excuse. 

This thread is on washability but I am also struck by the number of poor looking prints handed out by a lot of companies, predominentlly on dark shirts, that I see as I walk shows. 

Harry


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## mike2468 (Mar 11, 2007)

equipmentzone said:


> We are using our SpeedTreater automatic pretreater to pretreat shirts at shows now but I see the majority of direct to garment printer manufacturers bringing in blank shirts that had been been pretreated before the show.
> Harry


Just out of curiosity Harry, how long after a shirt is pre-treated and heat pressed, should it be printed. I have been told you can pre-treat them and print up to 2 weeks later with no problems. I tend to disagree with that.

Mike


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

*The purpose of my testing was to let the printed t-shirts speak for themselves. The reason I gathered them was to make sure I was about to buy the best printer to print on dark garments.* After reviewing the results and reading the comments on this thread I am concern about buying any printer at this point. With price points between $14,000- $195,000 this is an important decision for my company.

I think I need to do another “wash test”. 
I will have a test design developed this week and will submit it to all printer companies to print with a full understanding that I will be washing them in a equal matter and posting the results on this forum.
I will post the design in a new thread on this forum which will be opened for comments before I send it to the printers.
I will also want to send this design to any member that will print it on there own printer in their own shops. I will set a start date for the wash test to begin which will give plenty of time for all to print their samples for the test. 
The only thing each tester will be ask to do, is add their prep and printer information to the bottom of the test design in the font and size I choose so it is easy to read on the sample before and after the test.

So I do not miss any printer that is now available please post all the known printer that you all want to see in this test.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

mike2468 said:


> Just out of curiosity Harry, how long after a shirt is pre-treated and heat pressed, should it be printed. I have been told you can pre-treat them and print up to 2 weeks later with no problems. I tend to disagree with that.
> 
> Mike



Mike,

The best example I can give you is from US Screen. It's always better to have more then not enough. So often US Screen would have a large amount of pretreated and pressed shirts left over from a trade show. These shirts were sent back to US Screen after the show and saved there for the next show. Many times the next show would be 3 or more months away. The stored shirts were then sent to and printed on the Fast T-Jet printers at the show. The printed results looked great, the same as shirts pretreated at the show right before printing. Again, I am giving you a real world example but others may have other opinions on if you could or how long you could store pretreated shirts.

Just as a further note, we have a few multi machine owners using our SpeedTreater automatic pretreater who are pretreating several cases of shirts at a time through the SpeedTreater. They run the sprayed shirts through a small conveyor dryer and just stack them. When they are ready to use the shirts for printing they are just pressing the dry shirts for a few seconds on a heat press.

Harry


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

Thanks Harry that is great to know
I have heard from some that they keep them for weeks or months and have not had an issue but then others say they do not like to keep them over a few days.

I also hope to be able to afford the speed treater soon, looks like a great solution for treating the shirts quickly, I talked with someone a couple of days ago that was there and saw it working and could not believe how fast or quiet it was

Thanks again for the info on the pretreated shirts


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Can't wiat for your next DTG wash test Dave. I would be interested in seeing more white t-shirt samples. Oh, and I think its best if you are able to find out which inksets were used in the printing of the t-shirts.

TOP work, keep it up!


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

I suggest in addition to the printer model, print resolution, number of passes, cure time/temp,pretreat or no, that you also ask for ink brand used. There is a big difference between DTGInks, DuPont, AA, DTG textile brights, Kornit, Brother, Nano, BASF and various other inks. The inks probably make at least as much difference as the printer in my opinion ( I have wash tested several different inks printed on the same printer model with significantly different results)


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I totally agree with Zhenjie and Michele. The inkset will make a big difference. I am scared for when I run out of R & H, and I am getting close


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

I loved the R & H. But I have found a replacement that after using it a while- I like it even better. 

But I think in choosing a printer the ink set is not the deciding factor, as any of the Epson based printers can use each other's inks with proper flushing of the machine. It is great to have plenty of choices for the different applications. My thought is that wash testing is a great way to choose inks. But choosing a printer should be based more on your business plan, reliability, support, company reputation, solid construction, print options and features.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> I also cure with a heat 16 x 20 heat press and get great results with my HM1 with white ink. You do not need a dryer to cure dtg prints, a heat press works fine  I have everything I need in a 10 x 12 room, and get great prints with the setup I have. Matius89 what dtg printer are you using?


I have Kornit's. Huge learning curve (wished they could be as simple as the Brother brand) but awesome when you finally et it mastered.


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## matius89 (Apr 28, 2008)

skdave said:


> *The purpose of my testing was to let the printed t-shirts speak for themselves. The reason I gathered them was to make sure I was about to buy the best printer to print on dark garments.* After reviewing the results and reading the comments on this thread I am concern about buying any printer at this point. With price points between $14,000- $195,000 this is an important decision for my company.
> 
> I think I need to do another “wash test”.
> I will have a test design developed this week and will submit it to all printer companies to print with a full understanding that I will be washing them in a equal matter and posting the results on this forum.
> ...


Dave I think it is great that you are deciding to give this another shot. It is definitely a HUGE investment where you need to be 100% certain. Trust me when I tell you that I was once in the same position. Best of luck to you.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

My test art work will be posted today.

Everyones comments would be nice.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Here is the test pattern we designed for testing of DTG printers. I will be sending this out to all manufactures of DTG printer and operator of same that which to print a wash sample.
Please click on the "test Color" below and comment about it.

Any phone numbers that members can supply will be helpful.
Thanks, Dave


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## kornitguy (Oct 17, 2008)

equipmentzone said:


> Brian,
> 
> It does not make sense to spend the great amount of money, and time, needed to exhibit at a trade show and hand out anything less then a perfect sample shirt. I can only speak for my company in stating that, when we exhibit, the one item we take care to concentrate on the most is what gets printed at the show and what the potential customer is handed. Because that is how every exhibitor should be viewing those people coming to their booths - as a "potential customer". And if those people are given anything other then a steller product to see, and to test wash, the word "potential" will be quickly removed. We are using our SpeedTreater automatic pretreater to pretreat shirts at shows now but I see the majority of direct to garment printer manufacturers bringing in blank shirts that had been been pretreated before the show. That should take the factor of improper pretreating, a big reason for poor washability, away as a excuse.
> 
> ...


 
As a long time screenprinter I have to agree. I have stood infront of a screenprinter at a tradeshow, watching him manually print a 4 color design that was out of registration. I looked closely at the print, saw the misreg and looked at him... he smiled back with what I took as he was unaware that there was even a problem. I cannot put stock in such a company. A tradeshow is your chance to put your best foot forward. If you do not, then you imply that what you are putting forward is your best.

As for DTG. I simply cannot accept the common excuse that it is just a learning curve. We are talking about simple chemical reactions. Product A in ink reacts with product B in pretreat. There needs to be enough of each product to react properly to yeild the desired outcome. Too much of one or the other could yeild instability. So if the pretreat is such an issue then why has there not emerged a standardized way to apply it? It is a carrier with diluted chemicals in most cases. Carrier is then evaporated leaving chemicals ready to react. So there must be a better way to consistely apply said chemicals. Now that I think of it, it is a learning curve problem, but the people who are experiencing the problem are the developers of the printers and the chemists developing the ink/pretreat sets.


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## Shantiman (Feb 7, 2007)

do you have any samples of the anajet on white?


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Shantiman said:


> do you have any samples of the anajet on white?


 
No I do not, At the show my focus was on white ink on dark shirts.

If they respond to the second test, I will ask for a white shirt print job as well.

I need all the members to ask each manufacturer to agree to the wash test. 
As of today, only Brother has agreed.

PS Anajet did very well in my first wash test.


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## ruiarahman (Aug 29, 2008)

This was an excellent post thank you


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## eaglesofttees (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi guys, I am new here and this is my first post. I own a Brother GT-541 and I have had it since March 2006 and I have been very pleased with it. My only problem is that it will not print white ink or on dark shirts. I really would love to have the new Brother but it is WAY over my budget 50,000 - 55,000 from what my supplier is telling me. I just wanted to say that I am all for the Brother GT-541 due to its unbelievable quality that it puts out compared to other DTG printers.

Joe


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

kornitguy said:


> As for DTG. I simply cannot accept the common excuse that it is just a learning curve...... Now that I think of it, it is a learning curve problem, but the people who are experiencing the problem are the developers of the printers and the chemists developing the ink/pretreat sets.


I think what many of us are forgetting is that this entire industry of DTG printing has only been around for about 4 years; while screen-printing has been around for 40+ years. We users, are, in part, "guinea pigs" for the manufacturers of the systems, and chemists developing the inks. Unfortunately, beta testing only goes so far, and it's the real users in the field in the real world that actually help develop this industry forward. So, it's just a decision of jumping in now, and working thru all the issues (I remember back 20 years ago that embroidery machines never had trimmers; and digitizing was done manually by plotting points on an over-sized art board), or waiting a few more years until this industry matures more. I do highly appreciate the time that users take to do test washes & post their results to this public forum. I also highly appreciate what Harry & Equipment Zone has done to further along & help improve this industry. They, as a distributor, really are on top of the issues, and seem to really care & support their customers (No, I don't own any of their equipment, nor am I an employee or part owner; *my opinion* is based solely on the amount & qualtity of support they have posted on this & other forums, and also through communications from some of their customers).


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## kornitguy (Oct 17, 2008)

fdsales said:


> I think what many of us are forgetting is that this entire industry of DTG printing has only been around for about 4 years; while screen-printing has been around for 40+ years. We users, are, in part, "guinea pigs" for the manufacturers of the systems, and chemists developing the inks. Unfortunately, beta testing only goes so far, and it's the real users in the field in the real world that actually help develop this industry forward. So, it's just a decision of jumping in now, and working thru all the issues (I remember back 20 years ago that embroidery machines never had trimmers; and digitizing was done manually by plotting points on an over-sized art board), or waiting a few more years until this industry matures more. I do highly appreciate the time that users take to do test washes & post their results to this public forum. I also highly appreciate what Harry & Equipment Zone has done to further along & help improve this industry. They, as a distributor, really are on top of the issues, and seem to really care & support their customers (No, I don't own any of their equipment, nor am I an employee or part owner; *my opinion* is based solely on the amount & qualtity of support they have posted on this & other forums, and also through communications from some of their customers).


 
My concern with this is still that we are paying exorbitant amounts of money to be guinea pigs. It seems that only brother took the process serious enough to invest in creating a good product first then moving forward on a stable platform.

I don't think it's fair to compare an embroidery machine that doesn't have trimmers to DTG machines. Auto-trimmers are a luxury for an embroidery machine operator. Even the digitizing comparison is a bit off. Yes it was more cumbersome and required getting used to, but the machine didn't just randomly crap out on you when you had to hand digitize files, nor did the machine crap out on you because it couldn't trim.

I do agree that the companies look at us as guinea pigs, I just feel taken advantage of because they never told me that I was intended to be one.

Call me crazy i guess. Were this a hobby it would be one thing. But our businesses hinge on this equipment working correctly and consistenly and that is what the companies are promising. Yet I can't find one white ink printing machine that will acutally run correctly and consistently. Blame what you want but in the end the TiO2 didn't make a promise and the epson print heads didn't make a promise. The burden lies solely on the developers that made the promise.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Please let's not turn this thread into a rant about the DTG industry (there are so many other threads for that ). I would prefer to keep it productive and on the topic of sharing the results of the DTG wash tests.


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## kornitguy (Oct 17, 2008)

Rodney said:


> Please let's not turn this thread into a rant about the DTG industry (there are so many other threads for that ). I would prefer to keep it productive and on the topic of sharing the results of the DTG wash tests.


 
Your right. I'm sorry Rodney.

At least I gave ya a free bump ;p


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## MAF (Feb 21, 2012)

Hello
I know it`s been a while, but what happened with second test?

I have GT 782 and wonder how it look compared with Kornit, Kiosk and others


Cheers from Poland


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