# can i achieve photo realistic (or close) designs with screen printing?



## normalperson (Jan 9, 2011)

greetings from normalperson,

I've been doing a bunch of looking around all over the internets and cannot come up with a concrete answer for my need/questions. So i just had to ask the masters of all things shirts, which would mean you guys! So hopefully you can answer my inquiry and or provide me with some great insight, so thanks in ADVANCE!

well now to the question.

I, like any other artist, want my designs to be displayed in their full unadulterated glory. The PROBLEM is that a lot of them are extremely detailed and contain many different colors. So i am struggling with the best printing method, the highest number of available colors i have seen for screen printing is 12, but i need a more photo realistic finish (at least more colors), AND the problem i have constantly heard about DTG is the peeling and or cracking of the designs after not so long.HEEELLP!!!

is there like an awesome combination between the both?? perhaps some really long lasting type of printing with a nice finish or a much more variety of colors in screen printing. Maybe a way to get the result i need out of any of these two, or a whole new method i dont know about.
PLEASE HELP ME FIND A SOLUTION TO THIS REALLY HUGE PROBLEM! {(also) links to the companies providing the solutions you will suggest will be most appreciated!}

thanks again


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## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

Screenprinting done in 4 color process as well as simulated process can produce more colors than the actual number of screens used. 
And yeah, with high detail...photo realistic even.
Also, with either process or semi process, you can add additional color screens.
There's always a way.....


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## bogastyle (May 14, 2009)

Hi people! I have the same question! 
I know what is simulated process and indexed separations, but can some one tell me how exactly make simulated process manually - in Photoshop!
I made some tests with EasyArt actions but result colors aren't same like original image!

Also I made indexed separations manually! And result colors are more closer to original, but spot colors are minimum 7-8.

Can some body explain witch method is more accurate for full color images or digital drawings with lot of gradients!

Thanks in advise!


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## Sulp (Dec 7, 2010)

Process printing is the way you want to go. Your desing could have 50 colors in it and it can be achieved using just 4 colors (CMYK). I'm sure you have seen many different printed shirts with photo/realistic prints on them. That's all process work. And while DTG has come a long way, I am not really a fan. But in reality, if you were only doing a few pcs, DTG would be your best bet. You would have a really hard time finding a printer to do anything under 72-144 pcs via 4-color process....And if you did find someone, it would cost a fortune.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

With screen printing you have 3 options for those types of design, CMYK process, Simulated process and Index separations. With simulated process and index, you're limited to how many screens the press can hold, allot of the full color images i've separated tend to be 10-12 colors. If the shop only has a 8 color press, then you're limited to 8 screens. CMYK process is a good alternative for small runs as it only requires 4 screens (an extra underbase screen is needed if printing on darks).
In my experience index and simulated process gives the best results for volume production. the majority of work on my blog was done with Index and simulated process if you'd like to see examples.

for soft smooth gradients, Simulated process works the best because it uses halftone dot patterns. Index works ok but the 'dots' in an index separation are all the same size and doesn't lend itself to reproducing smooth gradients as well as halftone dots.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

Sulp said:


> Process printing is the way you want to go. Your desing could have 50 colors in it and it can be achieved using just 4 colors (CMYK).


CMYK process is very good but it can not reproduce just any color, only the colors in the CMYK gamut. That is one of the major issues with CMYK process printing, spot colors are often added to accommodate for this.


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## bogastyle (May 14, 2009)

Thank you red514! 

The machine that I need to let the separations is an automatic press with 12 units - Sinchroprint S-Type! 
My job is as follows: 
- To prepare a file for printing! 
- To exposare film /print for ScitexBrisque/
- To print with Sinchroprint S-Type - direct printing on garmet

What about moire when CMYK printing? 
What angles used in the CMYK printing and what lpi! 
What type of grid - an ellipse or a standard. 

I remember some time ago in the print house made a print in CMYK but the shirt is clearly visible rosette grid! Why do you think! 

My request is if you can record a demo movie for some photo! To see how it actually does! 

Alternatively, I do record my work and send you to see where wrong. But I am sure only that I do better index separation. I do them like this: 
- Output file - 175 lpi at 1:1 size 
- Tsvetoodelyane 65 lpi 
- Printing of 120 metric mesh 
But in print house can't print them cleary! I don't know why!

About simulated process and CMYK - not sure how to do them, but I think definitely in some cases will be useful for me! 

Basically I do prepress for offset printing, that is my primary job. Now replace me having to do separations for T-shirt.


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## bogastyle (May 14, 2009)

I saw your blog - interesting!
I'm now follow your blog!

Would you share with what parameters have been this file for print /dpi for original, lpi for film, number of colors/ :
[media]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qU_1UycHAwE/TOx8DIoJbeI/AAAAAAAAACM/p8eCsH1Y-08/s1600/eas-closeup1.jpg[/media]

Thanks again!


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

bogastyle said:


> I saw your blog - interesting!
> I'm now follow your blog!
> 
> Would you share with what parameters have been this file for print /dpi for original, lpi for film, number of colors/ :
> ...


sure, the following are the print specs used for that Index separation.

the image was RGB and done at 180ppi
film out put was 55lpi @ 21degrees with 'dot' for the halftone setting using ECRM rip. (I used halftones with this underbase)

screen count: 10 total (including underbase)
print sequence: 1-UNDERBASE, (FLASH), 2-DK.GRAY 424, 3-GRAY 428, 4-DK.RED 484, 5-NAVY 647, 6-BEIGE 7403, 7-ORANGE 158, 8-LT.BLUE 637, 9-TOP WHITE, 10-BLACK.


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## normalperson (Jan 9, 2011)

is this something i have to do (the index separation or simulated)? or will the printing press do it for me when i give them the design? ALSO can you point me towards printers that will do this? And which one gives better results? is there a separating plug-in for illustrator?


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

normalperson said:


> is this something i have to do (the index separation or simulated)? or will the printing press do it for me when i give them the design?


some print shops handle color separations but not all, it's important to contact the print shop to find out what is needed. Also note, not all print shops are experienced with index and simulated process printing, find out if they do this and ask to see samples.



normalperson said:


> ALSO can you point me towards printers that will do this? And which one gives better results? is there a separating plug-in for illustrator?


printers as in print shops or printers as in out put device for the separation positives?
If you're looking for print shops, please tell us where you are located.

i should mention, index and simulated process isn't cheap unless you're doing high volume. what sort of quantities are you looking to produce?

DTG is a good option for small runs and the quality isn't as poor as you mentioned. There's a few forum members that do very impressive DTG work. I wouldn't rule out DTG as an option if i were you.


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## bogastyle (May 14, 2009)

red514 said:


> sure, the following are the print specs used for that Index separation.
> 
> the image was RGB and done at 180ppi
> film out put was 55lpi @ 21degrees with 'dot' for the halftone setting using ECRM rip. (I used halftones with this underbase)
> ...


Thak You, again! 
It seems I'm on the right track and the problem is in the print shop, at least for the index separations!
In fact, they are basically print vector images and generally avoided or color gradations in color! Trapping is not even used! I do not know why! 
This machine has a huge capacity is not being used! 

If you want I can send you a demo to look at it and say opinion! Tell me just where to send the file! 

Can You tell me one last think - for CMYK and simulated process - are You using software or just set certain angles and lineature?


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

bogastyle said:


> for CMYK and simulated process - are You using software or just set certain angles and lineature?


There's a few software or plugins available but i do handle it manually with Adobe photoshop. With both CMYK process and simulated process i set my own angles and lpi (currently using 55lpi @21degrees)


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## bogastyle (May 14, 2009)

Thank You man!
If you like can contact me on skype! 
I'll be glad to have your name in my contacts!
Best Regards!


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## normalperson (Jan 9, 2011)

red514 said:


> some print shops handle color separations but not all, it's important to contact the print shop to find out what is needed. Also note, not all print shops are experienced with index and simulated process printing, find out if they do this and ask to see samples.
> 
> 
> printers as in print shops or printers as in out put device for the separation positives?
> ...


i am located in south florida, but with the internet nowadays do i really need the printshop to be local? tho i do admit it could be better if it is.
and i obviously need to do a couple of sample prints before, but after a quantity of over 200 would be optimal to start and later on increase.

How durable can DTG be tho? many people complain about it tho i do love the idea of having images alomost exactluy reproduced. But quality and costumer satisfaction is a big factor...


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

normalperson said:


> i am located in south florida, but with the internet nowadays do i really need the printshop to be local? tho i do admit it could be better if it is.
> and i obviously need to do a couple of sample prints before, but after a quantity of over 200 would be optimal to start and later on increase.
> 
> How durable can DTG be tho? many people complain about it tho i do love the idea of having images alomost exactluy reproduced. But quality and costumer satisfaction is a big factor...


i recommend dealing with a local print shop when starting out only because there's so many little things you'll be learning. Having a local printer do the work you can physically go and talk with the printer, see exactly what the issues are. Once you have experience and a good understanding of printing its easier to deal with production from a distance. the other thing is the extra shipping costs.

i really can't comment on DTG prints as my experience is limited. The prints i have seen in person were not impressive but i have seen several posts by forum members that have done very nice work.

screen printing in my opinion is the ideal way to go, the thing is the initial costs with screen printing can be very high for the sort of work you are doing. With out a high production volume it maybe too costly. DTG may actually be your best option and working with one of the skilled DTG shops on here working over the net is a good option.

i could give you better direction if you can tell me what sort of quantity you're looking to produce of each design. Is cost an issue? what price range are you looking to have them retail at?


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