# Versa Camm SP/VP or a DTG printer



## Kimsie (Oct 5, 2007)

Does anyone have experience with both the Versa Camm SP or VP and Direct to Garment Printing?

I know both are a totally different process and I know of some of the pros and cons of each. And quality is a "big" concern that I have for printing on darks with a dtg, the bummer with the Versa Camm is there is some weeding that still needs to be done!!!

Thanks 
Kimsie


----------



## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

We run Roland XC 540 PRO III's all day and know their durability. BUT would never recommend a roland to do DTG. We let the brother do that for us.


----------



## YoDan (May 4, 2007)

Yes you can do transfers using the Versa Camm for lights or darks of course using the correct media for both, the process for darks does require weeding and if your design is a solid one the weeding is not that bad, a special carrier to transfer the design to the shirt is also needed. I own both but do not use the Vesa Camm to do T-Shirts as my DTG printer is faster, cheaper and easier "For Me" 
Dan
*"HAPPY PRINTING"*


----------



## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Just a thought on that DTG printer.... What is it doing for you while it is not printing shirts? I know thta some shops have a very steady flow of shirts that utilize the DTG printer but until you are at that point, I think the the versatility and revenue generating of a Versacamm far outweighs what a DTG can do. Just my 2 cents


----------



## gspotstudio (Nov 11, 2008)

I agree with Steve. Unless you plan to do only t-shirts and don't think you can make money with banners, posters, stickers and all the other uses of the versacamm than buy a DTG printer. But a versacamm is a great machine at many things.


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I also got Roland XC Pro "heavy duty version on VP" and Never use it for shirts 
I use my DTG for that that I don;t use everyday and if you were choosing between the two like others said than I would get Roland....
You may not do shirts cheaper and faster with it but you will make Sooooo much more money using that

Did I mention I have had my Roland for 7 month and never had an issue with it, never cleaned head because does itself 
I got a DTG and has been nothing but a pain in arse since day one
If you can afford it get both and if you had to choose than get Roland


----------



## Kimsie (Oct 5, 2007)

Everyone Thank you for your input on the two different machines-I'm still up in the air as to which one would work better for me. My dtg concerns would be with the white ink (white is a must) and cloggin up heads/lines and such and all of the maintance. 

I have a Roland GX 24 and this past fall I did just over 1000 shirts. I'm trying to find a fast and less labor intense option.

Thanks,
Kimsie


----------



## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

Kimsie said:


> My dtg concerns would be with the white ink (white is a must) and cloggin up heads/lines and such and all of the maintance.


Ask them how many "dark shirts" can you get per hour? I say this because i used to own a t-jet and could only get about 3 or 4 if the graphic was about 11" width x 11" high and that is if the machine didn't screw up in the middle of the printing process which was more often then i got "a good print" off the machine.



> I have a Roland GX 24 and this past fall I did just over 1000 shirts. I'm trying to find a fast and less labor intense option.


If i got an order that large i wouldn't do it on a DTG or Versacamm instead i would order the design as plastisol heat transfers and press them on. It's less labor intensive and you make more in $$$.

There is a list of companies on this forum that offer custom plastisol services that will turn your design into a plastisol transfers (screenprinted to paper and you press the design on).

Now for short runs a few 100 (but i would even at that quantity consider the plastiol route) you would be better served with a versacamm over a DTG Printer that prints white ink due to speed and the tendency of some DTG to just go haywire during the middle of printing. They say it's due to not keeping the dtg machine clean it may be partially true but for the price of the equipment (tabletop models) there should be something built into those machines to automatically do cleanings, etc.

I've just acquired a versacamm to do my dark shirt printing since my brother GT-541 doesn't print white ink and the machine has been going almost everyday since i got it. I haven't had any maintenance issues or messups and haven't lost 1 shirt. When i owned my T-jet i had boxes full of mess up due to printer malfunctions or ink drips. The other thing to look at is with the versacamm you can print other things beside t-shirts or fabric type items (sweats, bags, etc.) so you widen your possibilities. I can now print signs, banners, stickers, labels, etc. even if i don't venture into it right away the options open.

Just my 2-cents others may disagree


----------



## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

If you are a high volume one-off or low to mid run t-shirt only shop then a DTG should be a strong consideration. However, I think that if you want to decorate a multitude of fabrics and have the ability to do things like banners, stickers, posters, signs then the Versacamm is the better choice.

It really comes down to your business model and who you want to sell to and how you want to sell. The Versacamm allows you to maximize sale opportunities with each client. 

The exercise that I recommend doing is making a list of all of your types of customers and then list the potential sales opportunities with each piece of equipment. This should help you near a decision.


----------



## Peely (Oct 24, 2008)

I have been going through the exact same decision process over the last few weeks ! 

I need to be able to print onto both dark/white shirts, and have looked at DTG's and been and tested a Versacamm.

They are completely different results.

While the DTG print looked and felt great, I was very disappointed with the Versacamm results.
Although I know the Versacamm is a fantastic machine, which I will probably end up owning someday to add to our sign business, but for shirt printing . . . 
They firstly gave the impression that they where stuck on top of the fabric, instead of into the fabric, which to me didn't feel right, felt cheap, unlike like the DTG.
That was the first (gloss) material that we printed onto, the other material was a matt, which when pressed looked as though it had been washed 20 times, with bad results !

You could iron the DTG's print, where if you went near the Rolands, with an iron, it would melt !

The only thing that stops me buying a DTG at the moment is all the problems with white ink clogging, as we probably wont have enough work to keep it running every day.

Looking at both machines though, for shirt printing, it would have to be the DTG for me, but saying that, there's probably more opportunity, and if you can find the work for a Versacamm, you would probably make more money !


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

DTG brand printer have a new thing the stir white ink to make like a little easier but doesn't mean heads won't clog. Cleaning machine daily ain't super big deal and takes like a few minutes.
I would recommend getting a speed treater if you will do lots of dark garments because applying with sprayer is not efficient and you may waste more pre-treatment over time.


----------



## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Peely, it really depends on the material that you use with the versacamm. I would guess from what you have said that you saw Rolands HTM material. That stuff is pure junk! Ask Josh to send you some samples of thier printed material and see the difference. It still has some hand to it but so does a DTG onto a dark fabric. I think you will be impressed.


----------



## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Peely said:


> I have been going through the exact same decision process over the last few weeks !
> 
> I need to be able to print onto both dark/white shirts, and have looked at DTG's and been and tested a Versacamm.
> 
> ...


The grades of material range greatly for the Versacamm. Just like heat applied film or transfer paper, there are thicker varieties and softer varieties since you are actually delaing with the printing onto another film. Durability can also range greatly.

There are some pretty big companies using this for t-shirts and performance/technical apparel. I wouldn't write it off as far as it's capabilities for garments. 

That said, there is no doubt that for dark garments you are printing onto a white film and then weeding, masking and transfering. There will be a slight feel, but no more than the better papers or vinyl films that consumers are used to.


----------



## Peely (Oct 24, 2008)

Mmmmm, interesting !

The stuff we domo'd was made by a company called 'Grafityp' here in the uk, we have also tried the Roland stuff.

Josh, do you know what the stuff you talk about is called, and do you know if there is a UK distributor ?

Believe me, I would much rather buy a Versacamm if we could get good results with shirt printing, because of the many other possibilities we could get from it !

Although, we currently use a vinyl that can be ironed without problem, but I don't think there is a solution to that for the Versacamm...................yet ?!!


----------



## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Peely said:


> Mmmmm, interesting !
> 
> The stuff we domo'd was made by a company called 'Grafityp' here in the uk, we have also tried the Roland stuff.
> 
> ...


Currently it is available through Target: The Heat Press, Textile Vinyls and Heat Transfer Experts - Target Transfers 

I don't think that ther eis an option out there for this process that can be ironed directly over since you are dealing with ink as the top layer.


----------



## Kimsie (Oct 5, 2007)

I was just wondering what the feel or "hand" is between the Eco-film and the printable vinyl (I think it is called Solutions)?
Kimsie


----------



## Peely (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks Josh, just spoke to a nice lady at Target. She is sending me some samples of the printable vinyls they do.

We'll get them pressed and will let you know how they look !


----------



## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Kimsie said:


> I was just wondering what the feel or "hand" is between the Eco-film and the printable vinyl (I think it is called Solutions)?
> Kimsie


Extremely close - the solutions is probably a bit softer. 

In my opinion, with any technology you should call and request an applied sample and wash it for yourself to get a good feel for the results.


----------



## Kimsie (Oct 5, 2007)

what are the differences between the SP and VP~ I am thinking with going with the 30" versus the 54"
Thank you


----------



## Peely (Oct 24, 2008)

Kimsie said:


> what are the differences between the SP and VP~ I am thinking with going with the 30" versus the 54"
> Thank you


We where told recently that they are virtually the same machine, except, the VP has 4 print heads as opposed to 2, so therefore the VP is faster, and not a lot else.
Obviously the VP is a more modern design.

I am sure someone will be along soon though to correct me ?!


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

SP is slower and has 1 year warranty and VP is like twice as fast and 2 year warranty and was built to be more reliable .
Big mistake people do when getting 30" over 54" and you gonna have to ask yourself this...
If you are gonna make Banners than 54" is a must because I never done a banner smaller than 36" wide yet 
If you just gonna do shirts and decals than you don't really need it but I know soooo many people that exchanged there 30" for 54"


----------



## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

I have the 30" and I would agree that if you can afford it, go with the bigger machine. I run banners all of the time and rarely have a request for one wider than 30". That being said, I will trade mine in for a wider machine so I cna do wraps and bigger banners in the future.


----------



## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Basically just what was said - 

The VP has a 2 yr warranty - the SP 1 yr.

The VP prints 40% faster than the SP. If you were doing 100 - 4x10" shirt graphics the VP would finish 25 minutes faster.

The VP has an improved tracking system, so it offers better registration on longer runs.

The VP connects with an ethernet cable and the SP by USB.

The print quality is exactly the same from both units.


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

There was a beef up on some kinda pulley system or something too?
I remember someone mentioning that ... not something to be really worried about
I also "think" VP is made to take 440inks easily compared to 220 inks

There is prob. gonna be like a 4 grand price difference but VP is solid investment and if you live in New England area.. I highly recommend supplies unlimited and if you don't there are some great merchant members here


----------



## BETO (Feb 1, 2008)

Hello josh i send to you some privated emails ask about versacam deals and if u can talk with same one here in minnesota to get me a good deal in the vp 540 since i talk to a guy in texas and he was give to me cheap, well i will like to know if you can help me with that? so please and since they told me here that they dont have the machine in the shop for i can see it how runs i will like to know if you can sent to me a sample in a black shirt, for i can do some wash test. i own a embroidery busines but i want trade like sing or print in a shirts! Thanks Robert.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I myself do Dtg printing and love it. I have felt the vinyl from the versacamm on a shirt and it definitely has a feel to it. Basically it feels like vinyl  as it should, since it is. There is definitely a different feel to the versacamm vinyl compared to the dtg. 

I wasn't aware that it could not be ironed. Hmm learn something new every day.


----------



## Peely (Oct 24, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> Basically it feels like vinyl  as it should, since it is. There is definitely a different feel to the versacamm vinyl compared to the dtg.
> 
> I wasn't aware that it could not be ironed. Hmm learn something new every day.


Yes, my thoughts too, as I have said in recent post, but, we cut and press vinyl now (unprinted) which when applied to the shirt, becomes almost part of the shirt, and can be ironed over without a problem.

Still I'll await the samples from the Versacamm and see how they look, and feel !


----------



## Kimsie (Oct 5, 2007)

sunnydayz said:


> I myself do Dtg printing and love it. I have felt the vinyl from the versacamm on a shirt and it definitely has a feel to it. Basically it feels like vinyl  as it should, since it is. There is definitely a different feel to the versacamm vinyl compared to the dtg.
> 
> I wasn't aware that it could not be ironed. Hmm learn something new every day.


My concern with dtg printers is the quality after a few washes (the fading) using Imprintables versacamm vinyl the color lasts (so they tell me)!!!

Have a Great Thanksgiving!


----------



## bear1173 (Jan 9, 2007)

Hey Scuba Steve. I am considering buying a Versacamm. Im brand new to this list, but I noticed that you offer a course in January for different samples you can make, etc. Id be interested in attending. Do you have more information? Thanks


----------



## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Rich,
I will send you a PM with info on the class plus a website for more info.


----------

