# is it wrong to register someone else's trademark as a social media username?



## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

Ok guys, i've been a little bit naughty but I will start with a legitimate question before I get into the 'nitty-gritty'.

How big is [Twitter] and how big is it going to be?

Phil

And how far would you guys go to promote your business?
For instance, if you could get a 'sub-domain' with Twitter that could catapult your business into the limelight but at the same time upset a 'big player' would you do this?
I will get to the point here but I need to tread softly on this thread

Phil


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



funkymunky said:


> For instance, if you could get a 'sub-domain' with Twitter that could catapult your business into the limelight but at the same time upset a 'big player' would you do this?


You mean the fact that you registered a Twitter account in [someone else's trademark] name? Personally I don't think it reflects well on you professionally, and since they have a trademark, you're on thin ice legally speaking.

I don't view it as substantially different to classic domain squatting (like registering coca-cola.de before they do).

Ethically speaking, the only thing I'd say in your favour is that your target is about as close to fair turnabout as you can get. In my view, it's not enough.

As a business owner, watching out for this kind of thing is an irritating waste of time, and a needless expense. I would hate anyone who did it to me, so I wouldn't do it to someone else.


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



Solmu said:


> You mean the fact that you registered a Twitter account in [someone else's trademark] name? Personally I don't think it reflects well on you professionally, and since they have a trademark, you're on thin ice legally speaking.
> 
> I don't view it as substantially different to classic domain squatting (like registering coca-cola.de before they do).
> 
> ...


I would agree with you in 'normal' circumstances and I wouldn't get involved in such behavior, BUT, it was a very quiet day back in February! Your now new President was using Twitter in his campaign and a VERY large t-shirt company had announced that it was closing down!
Now we are not talking about your average 'gentleman' business owner here!

Phil


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



auggieboy said:


> I can see how it would help with marketing, but where do you get the followers from? Do you tell existing customers about it? Is it all form facebook/myspace.
> 
> I guess I can't see to many people logging onto there Twitter account and doing a search for screen printers. It just seems that you would mostly find other screen printers.
> 
> ...


Auggie,
My initial thoughts were that if this 'big' player was to close down, people who actually searched for them using Twitter would find me! It looked like a good plan at the time

Phil


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



funkymunky said:


> I would agree with you in 'normal' circumstances


All circumstances are normal 

Seriously though, when you start making exceptions ("I wouldn't ordinarily be comfortable with this, but this is different...") you're on a very slippery slope.



funkymunky said:


> Your now new President was using Twitter in his campaign


"Your"? We have a Prime Minister, not a President 



funkymunky said:


> Now we are not talking about your average 'gentleman' business owner here!


I'm well aware of that, hence "your target is about as close to fair turnabout as you can get. In my view, it's not enough".

Hijacking someone's name to put to promotional use (in the same field no less) is just trademark theft as far as I'm concerned. There's no good humoured parody aspect here, just cutting a fellow business off from a resource that is rightfully theirs.

How would you feel if some pissant teenager registered your business name on the latest social networking craze to have some laughs at your expense and make some money off the incidental traffic? Stepping back for a moment, do you really think what you've done is that drastically different?

Your chosen target is a less than honourable company, but that doesn't make stooping to their level right.

I'm not attacking you for doing it in the first place (you saw an opportunity, and you took it), but I don't think it's right to keep it after you've had time to think about whether you really want to use it.

I'm sure some would see it as a well deserved comeuppance for the larger company. I'm just not one of them.


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



Solmu said:


> All circumstances are normal
> 
> Seriously though, when you start making exceptions ("I wouldn't ordinarily be comfortable with this, but this is different...") you're on a very slippery slope.


I agree, but this guy had announced that he was closing his company. He may have sold a few extra shirts with his 'scam' but what about his customers who bought when they really didn't have the spare cash at the time?





Solmu said:


> "Your"? We have a Prime Minister, not a President


Sorry Lewis i'm getting used to talking to Americans here, we have a Prime Minister too




Solmu said:


> Hijacking someone's name to put to promotional use (in the same field no less) is just trademark theft as far as I'm concerned. There's no good humoured parody aspect here, just cutting a fellow business off from a resource that is rightfully theirs.


This company maybe registered in the States as a .inc, but i'm not sure that would stop me from registering it as a Limited company here in the U.K?



Solmu said:


> How would you feel if some pissant teenager registered your business name on the latest social networking craze to have some laughs at your expense and make some money off the incidental traffic? Stepping back for a moment, do you really think what you've done is that drastically different?


Flattered Surely a company of this size should keep their 'finger on the pulse' and be aware of all Social Networking crazes that are up and coming! Do you think someone has been sacked in their office?



Solmu said:


> Your chosen target is a less than honourable company, but that doesn't make stooping to their level right.


Your not wrong here i'm in receipt of some 'choice' emails from the CEO himself!



Solmu said:


> I'm not attacking you for doing it in the first place (you saw an opportunity, and you took it), but I don't think it's right to keep it after you've had time to think about whether you really want to use it.


Lewis, it took two minutes to do! And your right, I would have given it straight back IF I was asked in a polite manner BUT how do you respond to threats?



Solmu said:


> I'm sure some would see it as a well deserved comeuppance for the larger company. I'm just not one of them.


I initially saw it as an opportunity as this company was closing down, but it didn't! Then I thought hey, I will wait for them to contact me, now I don't like the way they are using very threatening language.

Phil


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



> I agree, but this guy had announced that he was closing his company. He may have sold a few extra shirts with his 'scam' but what about his customers who bought when they really didn't have the spare cash at the time?
> 
> I would have given it straight back IF I was asked in a polite manner BUT how do you respond to threats?


If we're being honest here, I personally don't think there's *any* excuse for what you did.

You stole something and you're trying to justify it by what someone else did (not even directly to you). Your motivation seems less of "little guy defending what the big guy did to customers" and more like "competitor who saw an opportunity to get noticed in whatever means possible"

The "but he did something bad first" went out when I was about 7.

From what I read in your screenshot, it seems like they asked you professionally, but firmly about it. It sounds like you were hoping more for "groveling".

So now it sounds like you feel justified in doing the wrong thing because they didn't respond in the way you had imagined it in your mind (without disclosing to them how you hoped they would respond)


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



funkymunky said:


> This company maybe registered in the States as a .inc, but i'm not sure that would stop me from registering it as a Limited company here in the U.K?


Legally, perhaps not. Well, the US business registration wouldn't stop you from getting a UK business registration. But it's also possible they don't have an international trademark, in which case you might be okay legally. Obviously I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions in either direction myself, since I'm not a lawyer and haven't looked into their international claims.



funkymunky said:


> Flattered


Fair point. I think it's fair to say that would give way to anger though 



funkymunky said:


> Surely a company of this size should keep their 'finger on the pulse' and be aware of all Social Networking crazes that are up and coming!


They should. And there was a long time between Twitter becoming huge and you seizing the opportunity. They thoroughly left the door open for you. But that doesn't make it right.

Personally I'm often reluctant to sign up for every new web 2.0 site that comes along (even if I'm not using it), just to reserve a username. I don't want to give them that legitimacy, or have a half finished profile for people to find.



funkymunky said:


> I would have given it straight back IF I was asked in a polite manner BUT how do you respond to threats?


Perhaps they were heavy handed. I *still* don't think it's a good idea.

I also mean in general, not just in this specific case. Taking someone else's name to gain traffic and/or attention to your own brand is a bad idea.

On a practical level, it would be very hard to play something like this out without it backfiring.



funkymunky said:


> Then I thought hey, I will wait for them to contact me, now I don't like the way they are using very threatening language.


While I'd start nice for the first e-mail, if I was in their shoes I'd be threatening too. For one thing, if they allow this kind of stuff to occur their trademark is diluted and they can lose it. Stakes are high. They're in the right. They're jerks. I'm not surprised if they're being difficult about it. That wouldn't make them wrong.

At the end of the day it's up to you to show some class.


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



Rodney said:


> If we're being honest here, I personally don't think there's *any* excuse for what you did.
> 
> You stole something and you're trying to justify it by what someone else did (not even directly to you). Your motivation seems less of "little guy defending what the big guy did to customers" and more like "competitor who saw an opportunity to get noticed in whatever means possible"
> 
> ...


I think the word **stole** is a tad strong here and resent it's implication that it would make me a thief! My interpretation of stole is to take something that actually belonged to someone else. This 'sub-domain' *never* has belonged to the Company in question! It has always belonged to my Company.
Please do not try to compare my companies ethics with that of the Company in question as these guy's have gone out of their way to upset huge segments of society with their t-shirt decoration.
I agree that some of my designs are 'near the mark' but I do have a line I will not cross! 
I see this company are marketing a shirt which carries a message of blatant racism as we speak, now my standards will not allow me to go there, and never will!
And no, I wasn't waiting for any 'groveling' I was just waiting for some manners.

Phil


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



> This 'sub-domain' *never* has belonged to the Company in question! It has always belonged to my Company.


You registered it because the username was the same as a trademark of another successful competitor. In my own personal opinion, that is stealing.



> Please do not try to compare my companies ethics with that of the Company in question as these guy's have gone out of their way to upset huge segments of society with their t-shirt decoration.


I don't think I compared the ethics of both companies.

To me personally, the ethics behind your decision to register and hold onto the username are questionable.

To you, they are perfectly justified. 

You had to know that not everyone would think the same way as you when you did it?



> I see this company are marketing a shirt which carries a message of blatant racism as we speak, now my standards will not allow me to go there, and never will!


Just as other folks standards wouldn't allow them to register someone else's trademark as a username in order to draw traffic to their site.

I just don't get the "they are bad because of this so I will do something bad because of that" idea.



> And no, I wasn't waiting for any 'groveling' I was just waiting for some manners.


I think a good way for you to show manners here would have been to contact them and offer them the account/username for free. At the very least you wouldn't have the drama, at the best, they may have given you some positive publicity out of it.


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## tat2ts (Aug 11, 2007)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*

I know the guy your talking about, if he does have a legal foot to stand on and he is hesitating with a lawsuit, I garantee his lawyer is seeing how much rope he can give you before he pulls the rug out from under you. He might be slightly insane and totally immoral but you don't get to his level of success without knowing all the legal ins and outs.


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



Rodney said:


> I think a good way for you to show manners here would have been to contact them and offer them the account/username for free. At the very least you wouldn't have the drama, at the best, they may have given you some positive publicity out of it.


Rodney, this is no hostage situation. This was a spur of the moment decision to to capitalise on a Company that was claiming to be closing down!
My intentions were never to hold this Company to ransome and demand any financial reward, in fact I thought 'would they care' if they were closing shop?
I have since been offered 10 free t-shirts and bucket loads of threats but I won't take either!
I was hoping that my 'confessional' amongst friends here on this Forum would help me in making the right decision, the truth is, it's not helped!
Thank you to all contributors to this thread but I will not be adding further to it as I cannot take further assassination of my character.
I do know right from wrong which will eventually be born out in the decision I have yet to make.

Phil


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



> I have since been offered 10 free t-shirts and bucket loads of threats but I won't take either!


I'm guess I'm still confused as to what it would take for you to do the right thing.



> I was hoping that my 'confessional' amongst friends here on this Forum would help me in making the right decision, the truth is, it's not helped!


I would hope that you would make the right decision on your own. Placing the weight on someone else to say _just the right thing_ to get you _do_ the right thing doesn't seem fair and doesn't give good odds when you don't tell the other person/people what the right words are. 



> Thank you to all contributors to this thread but I will not be adding further to it as I cannot take further assassination of my character.


I don't think anyone here is trying to assassinate your character. You yourself started by saying you did something "naughty". I'm guessing you knew what you did wasn't on the up and up.

I simply confirmed what you already knew. 

How you choose to move forward is of course totally up to you. I just don't know what response you expected.

We have posts all the time here where people are asking "how do I register a trademark" or "how do I protect my brand" or "someone has taken my design". 

They have a brand to protect just like a 1 person shop or a multinational corporation. Just because some may not like the brand and what the brand does doesn't make it not a trademarked brand.

Even if I may not agree with all of their shirts (although I have bought some that I thought were funny), that doesn't mean I'd want to do them any harm.



> Rodney, this is no hostage situation.


I think the "hostage" in this situation is the twitter username. 

Others may not agree.

Just my own personal, honest opinion on the matter, which is what I thought you were after. 

Sometimes varying viewpoints, or things said in different ways can click (or not click) with people reading.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

*re: are you using twitter to market your brand? Is it worth it?*



funkymunky said:


> Rodney, this is no hostage situation. This was a spur of the moment decision to to capitalise on a Company


It _began_ that way, but that's not what it is now.



funkymunky said:


> that was claiming to be closing down!


That was an obvious publicity stunt from the start, and makes a very poor justification. Even if you thought it justified what you _did_, it doesn't justify what you _now_ _do_.



funkymunky said:


> My intentions were





funkymunky said:


> I have since been offered 10 free t-shirts and bucket loads of threats but I won't take either!


I'd take both. The first because it's free, the second because pissing off that site was probably good for a laugh. Sounds like a good deal for a few minutes spent registering someone else's trademark and trading a few jabs and threats over e-mail.



funkymunky said:


> I was hoping that my 'confessional' amongst friends here on this Forum would help me in making the right decision, the truth is, it's not helped!


What were you expecting? This is a business forum. A business is having their trademark held to ransom. As a business owner, I imagine what that would be like if it were happening to me, and I empathise with the victim.

By your own admission you did something bad, and we agree. No mixed messages. How has that not helped?



funkymunky said:


> I cannot take further assassination of my character.


It's not character assassination if it's true. No-one is calling you a thief or a liar or anything like that; what we are saying is that you knowingly stole one particular piece of intellectual property for personal gain, and are now struggling with whether or not you should give it back, or exploit it to financial advantage. Our opinion is that you should give it back. Its entire value to you rests on the back of someone else's work. You even have the opportunity to profit from their undervaluing Twitter by getting some free shirts out of the deal.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

my thoughts are, that I am proud of my brand and I want to build it without using questionable tactics, so at the end of the day, I have the satisfaction of looking at what I built and knowing, it was hard work, dedication, vision, that got me where I am.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

> I initially saw it as an opportunity as this company was closing down, but it didn't! Then I thought hey, I will wait for them to contact me, now I don't like the way they are using very threatening language.


Even if they had closed, it would not change the fact that they still own the trademark. Until the trademark expired, and they failed to renew it, would it then be available for somebody else to profit from. In this instance even if they closed their store, they still have legal ownership of the said trademark. I am not sure about you being in the UK and whether its an international trademark or not, that is another issue, maybe a moral one on your part.

The right thing to do would be to release the username to the company that legally owns the trademark. I have seen many lawsuits where a company is sued for using a domain, that can be mistaken as a certain company. Almost every one I have seen, the domain is eventually awarded to the rightful trademark owner. I am sure in this case, the same would probably hold true here, as the twitter username can be mistaken for their company.

Just do the right thing, its obvious you feel its wrong, or you would not have started this post to begin with.


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