# Using Cobra refillable ink cartridges vs CIS



## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

Getting ready to purchase the 7610 from Cobra ...but trying to understand the pros and cons of using the refillable cartridges compared to the CIS.

I am replacing an Epson 4800 and was using the sawgrass cartridges.

we do not print every day...so wondering what would be the best.

thanks in advance for your feedback.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

okprinter said:


> Getting ready to purchase the 7610 from Cobra ...but trying to understand the pros and cons of using the refillable cartridges compared to the CIS.
> 
> I am replacing an Epson 4800 and was using the sawgrass cartridges.
> 
> ...


I just had to make the same decision, so I will share with you my thoughts...

Many years back (maybe 2007??) I wanted to change from OEM ink to an ink purposely made for heat transfers (to avoid a color shift). I bought refillable carts from a vendor that many of the people on the Forum were using at the time (it was NOT Cobra Ink). I got the carts, filled them as directed, and had nothing but problems from that time on. The printer kept saying that the cartridge needed to be replaced. I couldn't get it to accept the cart. Then, much to my dismay, it LEAKED inside my printer. The entire printer was destroyed and I was beyond frustrated after so many hours communicating with the company that sold the carts to me. I threw everything out, and stopped doing shirts for quite a while...

I now own an Epson with CIS for pigment ink that I purchased from Cobra Ink back in June 2014. It has worked awesomely, and I have had ZERO problems with it. Worst thing that has happened, was the ink sometimes flows back into the ink tank, and I have to use the syringe to suck it back into the head. Oh, and once, the plastic filament that makes the ink tubes stiff, came out. BIG DEAL. The printer has been fabulous, and I am STILL using the original ink shipped in it, almost 1.5 years later, even though my daughter is always printing some for school or for decorating her room! I knew Cobra Ink would be where I would be purchasing my dye sub printer, for sure! They get 2 thumbs-up from me! 

Then, I heard that there were recent issues with the carts -- supposedly Epson is messing with the firmware, so that it asks for carts to be replaced very often. Hearing this gave me flashbacks of what happened in 2007, and I simply decided to go the route of least resistance, and get the CIS; that's what I ordered. I will simply put a reminder on my iPhone to do a test print every couple of days to make sure the ink doesn't clog. However, I haven't really heard of many people with that problem, that are using Cobra Inks. I know I was told that I needed to do that with my pigment CIS, but I most certainly have NOT, and I have never had a problem! 

So yes, the refillable carts are great because you can switch between pigment and dye sub ink with just a head cleaning and test print, but once burned, twice shy. I also don't want to have to keep stopping to refill, and reset the carts all the time. I want a quick and simple print, without all of the fuss and muss.

Hope this helps you to make up your mind. And good luck with your new setup! Make sure you post the items you do, after you get the printer. I'm eager to see!  (I haven't received my printer yet, the WF 7110, but I am anxiously and eagerly awaiting it!!)


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I'd go with cartridges if you print only once or twice a week, AND the print jobs aren't heavy. I used to do posters with one of my (Cobra CIS) Epson 7010s. Though I printed the posters only once a week, had I used using carts with that would have been a hassle as I'd have needed to stop frequently for the refills. (As it is, you have to reset the printer when it *thinks* you're out of ink, and at least on the 7010s, that meant a ruined print, because it would often stop right in the middle of the page!)

Except for one job of 2,000 totes, my dye sub work tended to be less frequent, and only short runs. I had a CIS on my other 7010 used for sub work, but wish I had used carts for that one.

Both of my 7010s were from Cobra when they integrated the CIS into the printer. While it looked nice, in the end it was the undoing of both printers. Invariably, with age and use, the ink lines need to be replaced (more common with the older tube material, which is what I had). It's much harder to replace a CIS if the ink lines wend into the machine. From the pictures, Cobra doesn't seem to be doing internal CIS installs any more. You can readily remove the CIS carts and tubing, and run cleaner cartridges, or do a job with some other type of ink.

If getting carts from Cobra, go the extra mile and get them prefilled, with more ink in the bottles. Saves you from having to do an initial filling and prime. That's the major source of problems for those new to refillable ink cartridges.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> I'd go with cartridges if you print only once or twice a week, AND the print jobs aren't heavy. I used to do posters with one of my (Cobra CIS) Epson 7010s. Though I printed the posters only once a week, had I used using carts with that would have been a hassle as I'd have needed to stop frequently for the refills. (As it is, you have to reset the printer when it *thinks* you're out of ink, and at least on the 7010s, that meant a ruined print, because it would often stop right in the middle of the page!)
> 
> Except for one job of 2,000 totes, my dye sub work tended to be less frequent, and only short runs. I had a CIS on my other 7010 used for sub work, but wish I had used carts for that one.
> 
> ...


Generally I'm in agreement with you, however, I have to point out that the WF7110 and those in that family using the 252XL carts are different from your printer(s). 

The carts require a lot more resetting as Cobra is claiming that Epson FUBAR the firmware to thwart the aftermarket a bit. As such, they need a lot more resetting and it's a bit of a PITA.

Notice "Low Capacity i.c. chip" in the 252XL cart description

https://cobraink.com/cartridges/cartridges%204-6%20color%20empty%20.htm

I'm rethinking my approach for this reason.

Probably going to get a CIS for this and use my carts as backup.

Then looking at the new high capacity Epson models in tabloid size for pigment transfer printing and just use Epsons OEM inks if they are as economical as is implied for those models.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Refillable's and CISS are basicly the same thing. A CISS just has tubes hooked up to either the fill or vent port. 99% of all refillable carts or CISS use the same exact cartridge section. Including Cobra. I have refillable cart from about every place and their identical including CISS. I have taken a refillable and hooked to my CISS Due to a blocked valve portion or defective valve in the cart section. If a CISS is set up properly there will be zero diffrence in performance, blocking ect. This is the biggest issue with CISS is that people throw them in the printer let them charge and expect them to work. Even empty refillabes need filled first time IMO. With refillables I fill cart push in printer to pierce seal. Then take out of printer use syringe where printer pierces cart and push valve open. Instead of trying to draw ink out I blow in the vent hole. This ensures no air lock in the cart. With CISS I do same thing but use a tube and blow in the vent hole in the reservoir portion. 

I seen where some commented their ink was going back torwards the reservoir on CISS. Your system has a air leak or you have the reservoir is not in proper location. Some printers they sit with bottom of printer while others need to be elevated. The top of the CISS reservoir should not be higher then the top of the cartridge section when installed in printer and never lower then the printhead. 

I've seen people post that their refillables are empty but PC says half full or their CISS says replace cartridge but the reservoir is full. The cartrige section contains a chip and all it is just a counter. It does measure any ink levels. With refillables you have to make sure they don't run out. Running a piezo head without ink can cause damage. Although not typical it is possible damage happen quickly. Never run a CISS less then 1/3 I never let get 1/2 empty. I bought my 1400 about a month after it was released. Dec of 2006. It died last year. From the day I brought home had a CISS. Sometimes not printing for weeks. Every now and then would get a clogged nozzle but proper maintenance prevented that issue in the later years. Every 1-3 months or if I was going to be not printing I would clean bottom of printhead. Ther are plenty of videos and written tutorials for doing so.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

sben763 said:


> Refillable's and CISS are basicly the same thing. A CISS just has tubes hooked up to either the fill or vent port. 99% of all refillable carts or CISS use the same exact cartridge section. Including Cobra. I have refillable cart from about every place and their identical including CISS. I have taken a refillable and hooked to my CISS Due to a blocked valve portion or defective valve in the cart section. If a CISS is set up properly there will be zero diffrence in performance, blocking ect. This is the biggest issue with CISS is that people throw them in the printer let them charge and expect them to work. Even empty refillabes need filled first time IMO. With refillables I fill cart push in printer to pierce seal. Then take out of printer use syringe where printer pierces cart and push valve open. Instead of trying to draw ink out I blow in the vent hole. This ensures no air lock in the cart. With CISS I do same thing but use a tube and blow in the vent hole in the reservoir portion.
> 
> I seen where some commented their ink was going back torwards the reservoir on CISS. Your system has a air leak or you have the reservoir is not in proper location. Some printers they sit with bottom of printer while others need to be elevated. The top of the CISS reservoir should not be higher then the top of the cartridge section when installed in printer and never lower then the printhead.
> 
> I've seen people post that their refillables are empty but PC says half full or their CISS says replace cartridge but the reservoir is full. The cartrige section contains a chip and all it is just a counter. It does measure any ink levels. With refillables you have to make sure they don't run out. Running a piezo head without ink can cause damage. Although not typical it is possible damage happen quickly. Never run a CISS less then 1/3 I never let get 1/2 empty. I bought my 1400 about a month after it was released. Dec of 2006. It died last year. From the day I brought home had a CISS. Sometimes not printing for weeks. Every now and then would get a clogged nozzle but proper maintenance prevented that issue in the later years. Every 1-3 months or if I was going to be not printing I would clean bottom of printhead. Ther are plenty of videos and written tutorials for doing so.


Have to disagree on this _some_, hard to say on the actual percentage being 99% .... perhaps "many" would be a better description.

I've seen these around and had a "Always full" chip set with an Epson years ago when I was using CIS. In all these cases these CIS chips differ from refill carts.

Some CIS have different "auto-reset" that refill carts or some have "always full" chips, whereas it can be a bit dangerous to use those with refillable carts. You cannot see the true ink levels with the refill carts inside the printer, whereas a CIS you can see the ink levels.

Note that "auto-reset" may mean different things. Some "auto-reset" you manually remove the cart and re-insert, some you toggle printer power, some will just reset themselves at some % of fill or warning from the printer, just depends.

The refill carts in most desktop models you need to remove from the printer to see the true ink levels. As such, the refillables risk being ran dry and the heads can be damaged if the cart "auto resets" without you removing it, or presents "always full"

Inksupply calls continuous ink systems "CFS"
https://www.inksupply.com/accessory.cfm?action=find&the_cat=2

"Auto Reset Chips and Standard Chips for CFS Carts
Spare chips for CFS units. Auto chips reset them selves, Replacement chips require a chip resetter. All CFS units use Auto Chips.

Auto Reset - Black & Color Auto Reset Chips for Epson printers with Inksupply.com CFS. They reset themselves to full when the printer is turned on..... "

CIS Systems, Continuous Ink Flow Systems, Feed: Inktec, UK

"No wasted ink - when using normal cartridges there is always ink left in the cartridge when it reads 'empty' unlike these CIS Epson inkjet refills which always read "Full".

There is an exclusive custom designed microchip that always reads 100 percent full.

With this continuous ink system you won't have to remove the cartridges from the printer. This assures easy trouble free operation with less maintenance required."

http://www.continuousbulkinksupplysystems.com/instructions/1400_install_new.pdf

"6. If your ciss is equipped with auto reset chips ink levels only reset when ink is down to
last 5%-10%. Auto reset chips will not reset if ink is at 80% or 50% and so on. If the ink
levels is down to the last 5% and auto reset chips have not reset, then unplug your printer
from power and wait 5-10 minutes, then plug it back in- ink should read 100% again. "


http://www.amazon.com/Epson-Continuous-Supply-System-Workforce/dp/B0062ES1M2

"Auto-reset" chipsets reset the cartridges so there is no need to utilize a chip resetter nor take the cartridges out of the printer to refill"


In theory some of the auto-reset chips could work in refill carts but they detection is not accurate enough to prevent the printer from possibly printing "dry" so with "auto-reset" (that doesn't need to be pulled from the printer) or "always full" and CIS it's no big deal, just make sure the CIS has plenty of ink and you can visually see if it is close to empty, not to mention you should always keep some min level of ink in the CIS for proper positive pressure.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> Have to disagree on this _some_, hard to say on the actual percentage being 99% .... perhaps "many" would be a better description.


I should clarify, I wasn't talking about the chips at all. I was talking about the cartridge section design. They all started out with sponges back about 2001, cobra claims to be the first in 1999. years ago I bought a Cobra system and called and talked to Richard. he claimed theirs were different then everyone else's CISS. I pay $149 for my 1400. When its received its the same thing as the $40 system I bought 2 years ago. I purchased the 2nd system to switch back and forth all black and color. I was ticked off and sent back. I bought refillables also and I kept them but were same thing as the $14.99 set everyone else was selling, cant remember price but it was more, I just used them as cleaning carts. I did buy their ink for a while. What could be different was their chips but don't know. 

All the newer systems I purchased have reset switch on the CISS for the 1430 which resets all to full if you hit the ink change button the hold reset 5-10 seconds. 

Inkjetcarts.us have a dampener system, there is 1 other place that has it also besides that they are all the same spongeless design, so that's why 1 say 99% which it would be more like 99.998% with the hundreds of resellers.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

sben763 said:


> I should clarify, I wasn't talking about the chips at all. I was talking about the cartridge section design. They all started out with sponges back about 2001, cobra claims to be the first in 1999. years ago I bought a Cobra system and called and talked to Richard. he claimed theirs were different then everyone else's CISS. I pay $149 for my 1400. When its received its the same thing as the $40 system I bought 2 years ago. I purchased the 2nd system to switch back and forth all black and color. I was ticked off and sent back. I bought refillables also and I kept them but were same thing as the $14.99 set everyone else was selling, cant remember price but it was more, I just used them as cleaning carts. I did buy their ink for a while. What could be different was their chips but don't know.
> 
> All the newer systems I purchased have reset switch on the CISS for the 1430 which resets all to full if you hit the ink change button the hold reset 5-10 seconds.
> 
> Inkjetcarts.us have a dampener system, there is 1 other place that has it also besides that they are all the same spongeless design, so that's why 1 say 99% which it would be more like 99.998% with the hundreds of resellers.


Yes the cart section design for the ink storage (CIS vs refillable) has to be be very close for the printer to work correctly. I'm looking elsewhere for CIS on my WF7110, I like Cobra inks but yes the hardware can be pricey,

I usually get MIS associates carts (inkjetsupply.com) or Inkowls carts.

I bought my inks starting out prefilled, so I went with Cobra in this case.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

mgparrish said:


> The carts require a lot more resetting as Cobra is claiming that Epson FUBAR the firmware to thwart the aftermarket a bit. As such, they need a lot more resetting and it's a bit of a PITA.
> 
> Notice "Low Capacity i.c. chip" in the 252XL cart description


I was hoping Richard had addressed that by now. It's one reason I've kept putting off a purchase of a 7110 for pigment printing.

I recall seeing those "push-and-play" cartridge resetters for the Code 252s, that works like the reset button in a CIS. Do you know if Richard offers something like this?

With the new PE tubing, and all-external mounting, Cobra's CIS's are probably just as flexible as going with carts. As long as the CIS can be removed to run ink or cleaning carts, that's the main thing.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> I was hoping Richard had addressed that by now. It's one reason I've kept putting off a purchase of a 7110 for pigment printing.
> 
> I recall seeing those "push-and-play" cartridge resetters for the Code 252s, that works like the reset button in a CIS. Do you know if Richard offers something like this?
> 
> With the new PE tubing, and all-external mounting, Cobra's CIS's are probably just as flexible as going with carts. As long as the CIS can be removed to run ink or cleaning carts, that's the main thing.


Per the video he has that reset button in the carts. But I think it still needs reset a lot like the carts, not certain though.

I had tried and wait out that cart issue but my WF1100 died, so I had no choice if I wanted to stay 4 color.

Wish I still had the WF1100, bummer.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

If you have to send the printer in for warranty work with a ciss your gonna have to rip it out so might want to check and see how much of a pain in the *** that would be also.

I like the carts better. Two sets of carts and no issues when one runs out.


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Generally I'm in agreement with you, however, I have to point out that the WF7110 and those in that family using the 252XL carts are different from your printer(s).
> 
> The carts require a lot more resetting as Cobra is claiming that Epson FUBAR the firmware to thwart the aftermarket a bit. As such, they need a lot more resetting and it's a bit of a PITA.
> 
> ...


I realize that your post is several months old and when clicking on your link it does in fact show the "Low Capacity i.c. chip" in the 252XL cart description.

However, if you go to the same page on Cobra Ink website now, that "Low Capacity i.c. chip" description is NO longer there.

Does that mean that the problem with the carts have been resolved?

Would appreciate an update, if possible.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GILSAN said:


> I realize that your post is several months old and when clicking on your link it does in fact show the "Low Capacity i.c. chip" in the 252XL cart description.
> 
> However, if you go to the same page on Cobra Ink website now, that "Low Capacity i.c. chip" description is NO longer there.
> 
> ...


https://www.cobraink.com/cartridges/cartridges 4-6 color empty .htm

The empty carts still show "low capacity IC"

I don't think that the pre-filled ones would be different.

I bought mine some time ago and they are the low capacity IC type. The only way to know for sure would be to contact Cobra.


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> https://www.cobraink.com/cartridges/cartridges 4-6 color empty .htm
> 
> The empty carts still show "low capacity IC"
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike... now I see what happened. I went to the pre-filled carts link, whereas you have the empty carts link.

https://www.cobraink.com/cartridges/cartridges 4-6 color pigment.htm

I'll contact them to find out.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GILSAN said:


> Thanks Mike... now I see what happened. I went to the pre-filled carts link, whereas you have the empty carts link.
> 
> https://www.cobraink.com/cartridges/cartridges 4-6 color pigment.htm
> 
> I'll contact them to find out.



Please update here after you find out. Thanks


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Please update here after you find out. Thanks


Will do as soon as I get a reply


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Please update here after you find out. Thanks


I contacted CobraInk and got some replies to my questions.

I mentioned that I'd be buying an Epson WF-7110, to be used with JPSS transfer paper and that I lived in Portugal.

Q. What is the capacity of the refillable ink carts for the 7110?
_A. Approximately 15ml per cart._

Q.Do these carts need to be purged each time you refill them?
_A. No_

Q. do you supply an ICC profile if I only buy the inks?
_A. Yes, the color profiles are free with our inks._

Q. I read on t-shirtforum.com that your Code 252/252XL carts have an issue, where supposedly Epson have messed with the firmware, resulting in the carts having to be reset after only using aprox. 5ml or so of ink.
_A. We did have an issue with the firmwares years back but that has been taken care of and the firmware updates are ok to do now._

Q. How much would 1 set of 4x4oz CP-650 Bottles of ink (ink price = $51.99) cost to ship to Portugal?
_A. The shipping costs will be $47.20 via USPS.
USPS charges $44.25 up to 1lb and under, weight and $47.20 up to 2lbs and under, weight._

Then there is the fact that more than likely I'd have to pay import duty here, which I inquired about and would add aprox. another 40% to the price of the ink + shipping, meaning that the ink would cost me about $140.00

A bit of a steep price IMO. Lucky Americans!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GILSAN said:


> I contacted CobraInk and got some replies to my questions.
> 
> I mentioned that I'd be buying an Epson WF-7110, to be used with JPSS transfer paper and that I lived in Portugal.
> 
> ...


The question ...

"Q. I read on t-shirtforum.com that your Code 252/252XL carts have an issue, where supposedly Epson have messed with the firmware, resulting in the carts having to be reset after only using aprox. 5ml or so of ink.
A. We did have an issue with the firmwares years back but that has been taken care of and the firmware updates are ok to do now."

He answered about the _printer_ firmware, not the "LO capacity IC" issue on his aftermarket carts.

What he is referring to is that if you download Epson firmware updates and update your _printer_ it can render aftermarket carts in-operable. But that is a totally different issue all together.

The carts have firmware inside as well, but we (the users) never update that.

Apples and oranges really. So your question about the low capacity IC is still unanswered.


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> The question ...
> 
> "Q. I read on t-shirtforum.com that your Code 252/252XL carts have an issue, where supposedly Epson have messed with the firmware, resulting in the carts having to be reset after only using aprox. 5ml or so of ink.
> A. We did have an issue with the firmwares years back but that has been taken care of and the firmware updates are ok to do now."
> ...


Thanks. I'll have to contact them again about that. I have been researching and found the following carts for the WF-7110 at AliExpress. They say these carts are "Newest Updated Chips" The main diference I see in relation to the vast majority of carts for this printer is that the refill hole and air vent hole are located on the extremeties, meaning they don't need to be purged like the ones where the 2 holes are next to each other. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T270...383644444.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.144.S95yjz

And their price is excellent. What is your opinion?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GILSAN said:


> Thanks. I'll have to contact them again about that. I have been researching and found the following carts for the WF-7110 at AliExpress. They say these carts are "Newest Updated Chips" The main diference I see in relation to the vast majority of carts for this printer is that the refill hole and air vent hole are located on the extremeties, meaning they don't need to be purged like the ones where the 2 holes are next to each other. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T270...383644444.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.144.S95yjz
> 
> And their price is excellent. What is your opinion?


I can't speak to those carts. I'm not familiar with any carts that don't need to be primed (remove the air bubbles), some just prime differently.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

We have a 7610 with refillable cartridges. We cannot print 10 pages without at least 1 error message about the "unrecognized" cartridge. The message always comes around the middle of the printed page, so if you want to reset the cartridge, the paper will be ejected. So, you have to print the image again on a new 13"x19" paper.

We also purchased a new cartridge set from Cobra about 3-4 weeks ago, and the situation is the same with the new cartridges.

This issue drove me crazy; I said ENOUGH!! So, we purchased an EPSON T-3270. I should have done it 2 years ago! It feels like replacing your 1987 Yugo to a new 2016 BMW. 

Now we have a 7610 printer, but we use its networked scanner only...


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Gil, 

If you haven't made a purchase yet, have you considered going with a different printer? I don't know what kind of access you have in Portugal but here is a link to where I got my inks from Aliexpress

They do not show ink specifically for the 7600 series and I don't know what print head that printer uses so I'm not sure if they even sell ink for it but they do sell ink for the 1400/1430 which is a wide format 6 color printer. It is going to be better than the 7610 in that regard since I believe the 7610 is only 4 color. 

I found Epson 1430's on European eBay but they all ship from the US.

You get a whole lot more ink for the money spent and I would imagine that shipping is the same if not less than it was for me. I paid $89 delivered for 250ml of all 6 colors. And it arrived in 4 days. I have profiles that work with this ink that I would gladly send you. 

I just don't know that I would bite on something that has potential issues and you being so far away from tech support that your ability to return it for issues is wiped out by shipping costs.


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

Sacman said:


> Gil,
> 
> If you haven't made a purchase yet, have you considered going with a different printer? I don't know what kind of access you have in Portugal but here is a link to where I got my inks from Aliexpress
> 
> ...


Thanks for your suggestion Wade. No, I've still not bought a printer. I need to get all the necessary info first, the pros and cons, before buying.

From what I understand, the Artisan 1430 has an equivalent in Europe, which I believe is the Epson 1500W.

The reason for looking at the WP-7110 is that it's readily available here in Madeira Island. I need to do more research, but not now as it's already 3:30 in the morning here and I'm getting sleepy.


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> The question ...
> 
> "Q. I read on t-shirtforum.com that your Code 252/252XL carts have an issue, where supposedly Epson have messed with the firmware, resulting in the carts having to be reset after only using aprox. 5ml or so of ink.
> A. We did have an issue with the firmwares years back but that has been taken care of and the firmware updates are ok to do now."
> ...


I got an answer from them today. Here is what they say:

_Our cartridges do hold more than epsons so you will not be able to actually use the full 15ml of ink before getting that error message. There is also no way to bypass this as this is coded by Epson inside of its motherboard. The 10 pages of 13x19's depends on usage and coverage - that alone is still a good amount of prints. Doing a firmware update does not have impact on how our cartridges function in the unit._

I mentioned that someone had complained of only able to print 10 pages of 13x19 before needing to reset.

What I can't find anywhere, what the actual capacity of the original Standard 252 carts is in terms of ml. All they say is the yield being 300 pages for the 252 carts or 1100 pages for the 252XL carts.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

There are a few separate issues with the refillable cartridges:

1.) The printer often sends an error message that the cartridge is "unrecognizable". This is nothing to do with the amount of ink in the cartridge. It can come any time, and it comes very often. I mentioned earlier 10 pages but sometimes it comes after 2-3 printed pages. And it always comes when the page is not finished yet. 

2.) The cartridges are small, so they need to be refilled pretty often. If your image is not too ink heavy, you can print more than 10 pieces of 13"x19" pages with that amount of ink.

3.) The actual ink level and the level indication in the printer driver are not synchronized. You have to reset the cartridge when the software says it is empty even though you still have a lot of ink in the cartridge.

4.) You don't want to run out of ink from the cartridge because refilling it (taking out the air) is tricky and can be messy. 

If you are lucky with the cartridges and don't get error messages, the printer is usable. We used them with a WF-1100 and it worked. This setup is typically a very low budget solution (meaning: you save a lot of money in exchange for a lot of headache) but it is a viable option. The printer pays itself with your first order, but if you have a "business to run" and you don't have time to fight with the printer, there are much better solutions on the market.


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## MahiMadness (Apr 27, 2016)

I've been following this post with much interest. I'm looking to buy a 13 x 19 printer, and have been strongly considering the Epson 1430 with Cobra ink and carts. Now I'm reconsidering- again! I am looking for quality prints, as opposed to speed. 

api-what other printers or printer/ink combinations would you recommend? 

mgparrish-you seem to be having good results with the 1430, cobra ink and carts. You've also mentioned that you've helped many people get set up. Is your situation (having good results) more the norm or the exception?


Thanks!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

MahiMadness said:


> I've been following this post with much interest. I'm looking to buy a 13 x 19 printer, and have been strongly considering the Epson 1430 with Cobra ink and carts. Now I'm reconsidering- again! I am looking for quality prints, as opposed to speed.
> 
> api-what other printers or printer/ink combinations would you recommend?
> 
> ...


I have the WF7110. The only grief I have is often resetting the cart.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

I have 2 EPSON 13 x 19 printers, a WF-1100 and a WF-7610. The image quality is excellent. We did some Chromalux aluminum panels and they came out beautifully. 

My problem was the "low budget solution" in a production environment, so we upgraded to an EPSON T-3270. It is still a pretty affordable solution. I planned to use 700 ml refillable cartridges with Cobra, InkTek or some other ink, but ended up with Sawgrass SubliJet-E. It is somewhat more expensive but totally problem free. Cartridge change is 10 seconds, no messing with the bottled ink, ICC profiles are provided. We received the printer and within 1 hour it was in production already. Since then, I just hit PRINT and the images are falling out of the printer.

If I would have had a higher budget I would have purchased a "real" sublimation printer from EPSON or from Roland. That will be the next step, when our production quantity will require that...


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## brand4440 (Sep 30, 2010)

I have a artisian 1430 with cobra refillable cartridges and I print daily on it. Yes you have to fill them often but I am going on 2 years now and no problems. If the printer stops in the middle of a print with low ink all I do is remove it and fill it and it picks up where it stopped.


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## GILSAN (Aug 17, 2014)

After a little more research I found out the capacity of the original Epson DURABrite Color Carts for the 7110.
The 252 Standard = 3.7 ml of ink
The 252XL High-capacity = 10.4 ml of ink.

I suppose the Standard cart is what comes with the printer when you buy it. That's really a tinny amount of ink.

Anyway, since I'm after a budget printer with good inks, I may opt for the 7110 or perhaps even a smaller A4 model.

I found a site in the UK that sell, what many say is a very good pigment ink called Inktec Powerchrome K3. I'm sure many of you probably know something about it. I need to do some more research.


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## preachntees (Jun 7, 2008)

Howdy! Hope you're finding the answers your looking for. Just wanted to drop some more information on inks and CIS systems for you to consider. To start, I have never used Cobra ink or their systems, so I don't have an opinion either way on them. I can tell you that what I have been using since 2007 has proven to be the best investment I have ever made for our t-shirt business. I buy all my bulk ink and CIS systems from Tom at Inkproducts.com (FYI we are JUST a satisfied customer, and do not benefit by promoting their inks). ALL of their products are USA made. I have always used Epson printers, and am now replacing our WF1100 with a WF7620 (still waiting for the new CIS to arrive). Since 2007, we have shipped thousands of shirts made with inks from Inkproducts all over the country and world-wide. Tom has been excellent to work with. We were the first shirt printer to contact him and ran multiple test of different ink formulas they had for him as well. We sent him the test results and he was ecstatic at what we found. His pigment-based inks are as good, or in my opinion, better than the OEM DuraBrite pigment inks. (Previously I was buying replacement cartridge from china for my office products supply company, and using those in our business.) Coupled with the Ninah Jet-Pro Soft Stretch transfer paper (best paper we have use thus far), we have seen these prints out last the very fiber of the shirt they are imprinted on. The colors are vivid, STAY vibrant and that includes photos as well. (I will post a review of the new Inkproducts CIS with the Epson WF7620 as soon as we get it installed). 

They have both CIS systems and refillable cartridges. We chose the CIS system because we print so much, we would be filling cartridges several times a week...and time lost is revenue lost. The CIS is much faster to refill and get more work done.

Someone mentioned setting a reminder to print a couple times a week to keep your print-heads flowing....the ONLY problems we have ever had with Inkproducts CIS was when our computer went down and we didn't print for a while. Some of the heads clogged, but Inkproducts has some great head cleaning and clog clearing chemicals that helped it get back up and running quickly. Then, our dye-sublimation dealer told us about a program called Harvey Head Cleaner (Print head cleaning the easy way. No more clogged inkjets with Harvey Head Cleaner.). We purchased a copy, and will NEVER be without this program again. Harvey Head Cleaner allows you to set up a background schedule that will print a nozzle check as often as you tell it to...eliminating clogged heads forever! The ink use is minimal, just enough to keep your heads fresh. We have ours set to print a check twice a day, 12-hours apart, unless we had already printed a job within a few hours of the schedule. You can set it to print once a week to as often as you want. This program is a must for ANYONE with an inkjet, not just those of us in the professional world.

So, lest I continue to write a book here, I wish you the best on your search for the right system for your business, and would be happy to share any other insights you might need.

Avery Smith
Designs Custom Imprinting
Marquette, MI
Designs Custom Imprinting & Embroidery - Custom photo imprinted apparel and gifts


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

preachntees said:


> Howdy! Hope you're finding the answers your looking for. Just wanted to drop some more information on inks and CIS systems for you to consider. To start, I have never used Cobra ink or their systems, so I don't have an opinion either way on them. I can tell you that what I have been using since 2007 has proven to be the best investment I have ever made for our t-shirt business. I buy all my bulk ink and CIS systems from Tom at Inkproducts.com (FYI we are JUST a satisfied customer, and do not benefit by promoting their inks). ALL of their products are USA made. I have always used Epson printers, and am now replacing our WF1100 with a WF7620 (still waiting for the new CIS to arrive). Since 2007, we have shipped thousands of shirts made with inks from Inkproducts all over the country and world-wide. Tom has been excellent to work with. We were the first shirt printer to contact him and ran multiple test of different ink formulas they had for him as well. We sent him the test results and he was ecstatic at what we found. His pigment-based inks are as good, or in my opinion, better than the OEM DuraBrite pigment inks. (Previously I was buying replacement cartridge from china for my office products supply company, and using those in our business.) Coupled with the Ninah Jet-Pro Soft Stretch transfer paper (best paper we have use thus far), we have seen these prints out last the very fiber of the shirt they are imprinted on. The colors are vivid, STAY vibrant and that includes photos as well. (I will post a review of the new Inkproducts CIS with the Epson WF7620 as soon as we get it installed).
> 
> They have both CIS systems and refillable cartridges. We chose the CIS system because we print so much, we would be filling cartridges several times a week...and time lost is revenue lost. The CIS is much faster to refill and get more work done.
> 
> ...


This is the sublimation section, suggest you post in the appropriate section so those using pigment inks can see your info.

Printers and Inks for Inkjet and Laser Transfers - T-Shirt Forums


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

brand4440 said:


> I have a artisian 1430 with cobra refillable cartridges and I print daily on it. Yes you have to fill them often but I am going on 2 years now and no problems. If the printer stops in the middle of a print with low ink all I do is remove it and fill it and it picks up where it stopped.


I have the artisan 1430 (for transparencies) and the WF7110 (sublimation) both with refillable cartridges. No problems with the 7110 but cannot get the 1430 to read the black cartridge I put in today....Cobras closed for the weekend so any advice? I purchased refillable cartridges for all the colors but just need to replace the black for now. I've done the restart...pull and let sit for xxx minutes etc...no luck.


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Just trying to clarify, are you replacing a CIS black with a refillable? Or are you replacing one refillable with another? Or are you replacing the Epson standard pigment cart with a refillable? 

You can, in a pinch, pull the chip off of the old cartridge and put it on the new one in some circumstances. I have done this on my eco-solvent printer because I had to use a spare light cyan as a cyan. I just swapped the chips. This isn't going to work if you are going from a standard store bought cartridge to a refillable. But if you are going from one set of resettable chips to another it should work if there is just something wrong with the chip. 

Not saying this will fix your problem and it really depends on exactly what you are trying to do.


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## k m toydarian (Dec 24, 2008)

preachntees said:


> Howdy! Hope you're finding the answers your looking for. Just wanted to drop some more information on inks and CIS systems for you to consider. To start, I have never used Cobra ink or their systems, so I don't have an opinion either way on them. I can tell you that what I have been using since 2007 has proven to be the best investment I have ever made for our t-shirt business. I buy all my bulk ink and CIS systems from Tom at Inkproducts.com (FYI we are JUST a satisfied customer, and do not benefit by promoting their inks). ALL of their products are USA made. I have always used Epson printers, and am now replacing our WF1100 with a WF7620 (still waiting for the new CIS to arrive). Since 2007, we have shipped thousands of shirts made with inks from Inkproducts all over the country and world-wide. Tom has been excellent to work with. We were the first shirt printer to contact him and ran multiple test of different ink formulas they had for him as well. We sent him the test results and he was ecstatic at what we found. His pigment-based inks are as good, or in my opinion, better than the OEM DuraBrite pigment inks. (Previously I was buying replacement cartridge from china for my office products supply company, and using those in our business.) Coupled with the Ninah Jet-Pro Soft Stretch transfer paper (best paper we have use thus far), we have seen these prints out last the very fiber of the shirt they are imprinted on. The colors are vivid, STAY vibrant and that includes photos as well. (I will post a review of the new Inkproducts CIS with the Epson WF7620 as soon as we get it installed).
> 
> They have both CIS systems and refillable cartridges. We chose the CIS system because we print so much, we would be filling cartridges several times a week...and time lost is revenue lost. The CIS is much faster to refill and get more work done.
> 
> ...


Resurecting a very old thread with hopes of some modern day insight!

Seems like Harvey Head cleaner is a thing of the past. Can't find any trace of it now.

Does anyone have a new program that can schedule a print? Working with an Epson 7710

Thanks


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

k m toydarian said:


> Resurecting a very old thread with hopes of some modern day insight!
> 
> Seems like Harvey Head cleaner is a thing of the past. Can't find any trace of it now.
> 
> ...


i would just use the native windows task scheduler

you should not be powering off/unplugging your epson printer when not in use anyway,
but letting it go to sleep

check this for ideas


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## k m toydarian (Dec 24, 2008)

into the T said:


> i would just use the native windows task scheduler
> 
> you should not be powering off/unplugging your epson printer when not in use anyway,
> but letting it go to sleep
> ...


Yep. That's what I had been doing, but desktop crashed and go a new one, so thought I'd dig around and see if there was a better way.
One thing I saw with task scheduler, and might just be me not knowing enough IT, but it seems like it will only print on the default printer, which I would like to be my office printer, not the sub printer.


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