# Issue with thread/Brother PR650



## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm in the middle of a largish order of caps for "the proprietor", and am having several problems with thread breakage, etc. It is a one colour job, using our PR650, with a stitch count of 12,000 or so. It should take 33min. to complete. Some caps go through with no problems, others I'm having to rethread the needle three to eight times per cap.

Issue 1: the thread just comes out of the needle's eye between letters/characters; not sure if this is an issue with the bobbin thread not catching the needle thread.
Issue 2: the thread breaks, for no apparent reason. I've cleaned the bobbin housing and area, and taken off the ... umm... presser plate (just above the bobbin housing?) and cleaned out the thread bits that were collected there. No real result.
Issue 3: the thread seems to be getting "skinned" for lack of a better description. It seems to catch in the downward channel just before the lower thread guide.

The machine itself has a stitch count of just over 8.5million, with 292hours operation.

Any advice (other than buy a new machine. At $8grand a pop, we likely won't be doing that any time soon) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Did you try moving the thread to a different needle to see if that helps?


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

tfalk said:


> Did you try moving the thread to a different needle to see if that helps?


That was the first thing I tried, but no joy. Thanks for the thought, though.


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

On the other hand, Ted, I wonder if dull needles might be a contributing factor? With the exception of one, all the needles are the ones the machine actually came with, 292 hours ago. I should try putting a new needle on and seeing if I get any/all of the same issues....


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## ppts160 (Jan 16, 2011)

Try a different bobbin of thread you may have a faulty one.


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

ppts160 said:


> Try a different bobbin of thread you may have a faulty one.


Thanks, Mike. It's been happening long enough that I've gone through several different bobbins. Maybe its a bad batch, though, of prewound bobbins. I'll try a new box.


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

Back to the idea of new needles, I would say definitely try that. Needles only last 20-30 hours, so if you are still using the original ones, they are probably shot. 

Also, if the caps are structured, the buckram backing inside that had can be very hard on thread. Try sharp needles, your ballpoint needles have to force the thread through that very tough buckram, and that could be breaking the thread. A sharp needle will penetrate better.

Good luck.


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

Riph said:


> Needles only last 20-30 hours, so if you are still using the original ones, they are probably shot. ... Try sharp needles, your ballpoint needles have to force the thread through that very tough buckram, and that could be breaking the thread. A sharp needle will penetrate better.


Right, a new needle then. Thanks, Riph


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I assume you are also oiling the rotating hook when you change bobbins.... 
I also agree, sharps tend to work much better on the buckram style hats. You might
also want to slow the machine down, that sometimes helps.

Still, I'm puzzled why some hats run fine and others have multiple thread
breaks if you are always running the same design and same color/needle/bobbin. 
I haven't run hats on our PR600's since we bought our SWF since it has a 
bigger sewing field for caps and really just powers through them better.


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

Have you tried slowing the machine? Also if the cap is lightweight or organic or something like that, try doubling the backing.


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks folks. The machine has been running at 600 spm (the highest setting for caps) but I'll try slowing it down progressively. I've been oiling the machine once a day, but will try doing oil each bobbin change. The cap has a thick ... buckram, is it?, so backing isn't too thin. Maybe too thick? 

Thank you for all the suggestions!


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

Ahh, Pilot error! Don't you just love it?

Tried all the suggestions that I wasn't already doing, to no avail. In desperation, I went back to the original professionally digitized logo, and have run off 5 caps without a hitch.

In trying to get rid of the jump stitches on the "public" side of the cap, I had reconfigured the logo so that it was cutting between every letter/character, and I guess that was causing the problems somehow.

There's naught for it but to live with the jump stitches and manually cut them off as I go. Luckily, I have a good deal of time between loading each cap, so I can be doing that.

Thanks again for all the help, folks!


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

You need to add a lock stitch before and after each trim and you should be OK.... Depends on what program you are using if it should automatically add them or not.


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

tfalk said:


> You need to add a lock stitch before and after each trim and you should be OK.... Depends on what program you are using if it should automatically add them or not.


Thanks, Ted, I'll keep that in mind. I thought I'd tried that, but it didn't seem to have worked. I thought perhaps that had to be done at the digitizer's end, and s/he seems to have ignored that request.


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## sitzerlandwyo (Jan 20, 2011)

its a brother there are 4 things you should do 
1 change needles sharp needles are a must for structured caps and carharts

2 check for a bur on the hook or in the needle hole small smooth file will fix this

3 make sure you have oiled the pads above the needles not the right term but there is a small white pad above the needle that needels oiled also for some reason we get thread breaks when they need oiled

4 quality thread. Old dry brittle thread wont work


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

sitzerlandwyo said:


> its a brother there are 4 things you should do
> 1 change needles sharp needles are a must for structured caps and carharts
> 
> 2 check for a bur on the hook or in the needle hole small smooth file will fix this
> ...


Thank you, Amy, will check all these.


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## Daddyof4 (Aug 23, 2011)

We've had trouble with Coats and Clark thread. When we use thread from Threadart it is pretty much worry free but when we use Coats and Clark we have those exact same issues (thread breaking, coming out of guide, etc). 

However in all fairness I complained to Coats and Clark last week after ruining several shirts over the past few months. At first we blamed needles, oiling, etc. but it became apparent that the thread was the issue. They responded quickly and even sent me four spools of standard colors to try. They said the new spools have an improved coating that works much better with the professional grade machines. So we will give C & C a chance to redeem themselves.


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