# DTG Printing True Cost



## brentonchad (Aug 24, 2007)

I couldn't find a direct answer to this in past posts. But we are looking at the Brother DTG printer. We have been told that one pass in enough with this printer. 

So what could we expect our cost per shirt be with this printer?

Also a little off - but will black print well on red with DTG?


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## akaratemom (Feb 20, 2007)

Yes, black will print on red. As long as the ink color is darker than the shirt you can see it. The colors are all affected by the color of the shirt. Black prints on most colors unless it is really dark. Cost will be effected by the design and how large you print. We print mostly photos. At around 11 x 14 our cost is usually around $1.50. A pocket print could be a low as 25 cents. If your design is not a solid photo, cost could be much less. The display shows you the cost.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Brother inks are the most expensive of the dtg inks. 
Not to say they arent worth it, just stating facts.


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## darryld (Sep 20, 2007)

akaratemom said:


> ...At around 11 x 14 our cost is usually around $1.50. A pocket print could be a low as 25 cents...


wow! for some reason i thought they would be alot more. very nice. so your machine actually estimates the amount of ink used in your design, thus giving the approx cost?


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## akaratemom (Feb 20, 2007)

yes, there is a display right on the machine and it tells you what each design you send to it costs. Also, on the Brother you just make your design in whatever program you want and press Print, select the Brother printer and that's it! It's a great machine.


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## tpope (Oct 3, 2007)

Also consider the Oppps factor. This comes from the operator being human...
This is otherwise known as the Aw, shot!


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Also, I dont know how the Brother handles this, but with the RIP from Iproof for the Flexi, it doesnt account for the small amount of "spit" with each print. Not to mention cleaning cycles and nozzle checks need to be accounted for.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

the funk said:


> Also, I dont know how the Brother handles this, but with the RIP from Iproof for the Flexi, it doesnt account for the small amount of "spit" with each print. Not to mention cleaning cycles and nozzle checks need to be accounted for.


This is something that is built into the Epson firmware and is on all Epson based dtg machines, not just a product of the iProof RIPs.


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## tpope (Oct 3, 2007)

Yeah,

Turn an Epson based DTG on and it's gotta spit. Head cleanings involve ALL colors/channels unless you are using Printer Jockey. This lets ya clean one color at a time as needed. 

DTG Inks - Software

This works for non-DTG printers too.


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## Gunslinger (Aug 3, 2007)

tpope said:


> Also consider the Oppps factor. This comes from the operator being human...
> This is otherwise known as the Aw, shot!


LOL ... comes in many, many variations ... I couldn't list em all, even if I was allowed to ...


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

I dont get it Mark...
I was saying the RIP DOESNT account for these (spit, cleaning, etc).

I would understand if your saying that all epson heads have the ability to account there print price. I was just stating that users need to keep in mind that "spit", cleanings, etc. ARE NOT factored into that price per print that shows up in the RIP.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I apologize. I thought you were stating that the iProof RIPs are the ones that don't account for this based on the code when it is something that is not accounted for any RIP (FastRIP, EK Digital, ErgoSoft,...) on any Epson printer - dtg printer or regular printer. The RIPs can only account for what ink it tells the printer to put down on a specific substrate. The firmware is what tells the printer to spit into the maintenance station based on some sort of criteria. So, the spitting is outside anything that is controlled by any RIP and thus is not accounted for in any ink calculator. What most people do is inflat the cost of their ink by 1.2 to 1.5 (depending on the number of printhead cleanings). This way, the cost for the spitting is averaged into your ink cost.

Hope I clarified my earlier statement.

Mark


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

DAGuide said:


> I apologize. I thought you were stating that the iProof RIPs are the ones that don't account for this based on the code when it is something that is not accounted for any RIP (FastRIP, EK Digital, ErgoSoft,...) on any Epson printer - dtg printer or regular printer. The RIPs can only account for what ink it tells the printer to put down on a specific substrate. The firmware is what tells the printer to spit into the maintenance station based on some sort of criteria. So, the spitting is outside anything that is controlled by any RIP and thus is not accounted for in any ink calculator. What most people do is inflat the cost of their ink by 1.2 to 1.5 (depending on the number of printhead cleanings). This way, the cost for the spitting is averaged into your ink cost.
> 
> Hope I clarified my earlier statement.
> 
> Mark


Yes, we are on the same page. 

Some people even go further than 1.5x simply for customer satisfaction.
When a customer sees the RIP and sees that it costs the printer $0.75 and the printer is charging $15-$20 for a $1 blank, customers seem to get a little up tight. Tell them you payed $20k+ for the dtg printer, and all of the sudden things seem justified! Even when contract printing for $4 a print, some people want a better deal just because they saw the # in the RIP.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

the funk said:


> Brother inks are the most expensive of the dtg inks.
> Not to say they arent worth it, just stating facts.


Check out Anajet's ink costs, and Sawgrasses. I am pretty sure one or both of these cost more than Brother per garment.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Oh yea, I forgot about those.

Honestly, I dont even think about those when I think about dtg's. Really, I dont know one printer who has them!


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

I know a bunch of people who have them - I would definitely say the Anajet is one of the bigger players. Sawgrass..... Not so sure. I haven't heard many good things about it, although I still know lots of people who have them.

Anajet's inks cost so much simply because they put them in cartridges and mark the cost up significantly. I think Mark knows the true cost per liter of the Anajet inks - I remember hearing it but it was so ridiculous that I just put it out of my head.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

It seems, at least who I have talked to, they either have a flexi, a t-jet/t-jet blazer, a brother, or a kornit. Glad to hear that Anajet is considered to be a big name player though. Oh yea, and a Mimaki(?) but that discharge stuff Im still a little leary about.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Are people still using Mimakis???? I thought those had been phased out by now. But your assessment is correct - the BIGGEST players are probably DTG, T-Jet, Brother, Flexi (although they seem to be fading), and Kornit. The rest are marginal in comparison.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

Yea a lot of flexi's fame (or anti-fame) might be directly related to ddm, though I do think Belquette knows a lot about engineering a dtg IMO.


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

And just for the record, I have never had a problem with ddm (though I know some have) and dont want to start another thread where some people bash ddm for past activity and Rodney has to delete posts. Like I said, I have never had a problem. I have worked everything out myself or with the use of dtg inks and flexi forums. From my very limited experience with ddm, they were great. Belquette did a fantastic job of engineering this machine and Fred at Iproof is wonderful. I do also think (although off topic) that ddm will repair their name. Again, I wasnt around for that whole (chaotic) part of the deal like some were. 

The flexi is a great machine, the RIP is sweet, and I am happy!

*I do also think that all dtg manufacturers express "ideal" circumstances in their adverts. I know (at least Ive read posts) where Justin can say this, even for the Kornit.*


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Justin,

The ink cost for light color garments on the Anajet is either the same or lower than the Brother. Anajet sells a 110 ML cartridge for $89.00 (or twice that amount for $179.00) and Brother sells its ink in 220 ML cartridge for $200.00. Since the Brother does not do white ink, you can't compare the two printers on that aspect. There could be an argument that one printer has better coverage with less ink, but the costs I have seen from both printers puts them real close to each other.

For dark garments, none of the non-Kornit printers are going to be able to come close to the $160 per liter of white ink that you get. That is the benefit you deserve when you lay out the amount of money you did. Maybe one day things will change and it will become cost effective to have multiple smaller machines than 1 larger one. Just not today.

Mark


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

The ink cost for the new dtginks is only $215 a liter for the CMYK so that is really quite economical-and it works fine in the Epson print heads.


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## bob emb (Apr 5, 2007)

Why would anyone let a customer see how much ink they are using to print their shirts.

Does not sound like a good business practice to let customers into your inner sanctum.

Bob


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I totally agree with Bob on that one, I do not let my customers get involved with looking what I am doing on my rip program. I try to keep customers out of my print area when I am printing anyways, I made that mistake one time and this customer ended up wanting to edit his artwork for hours upon hours. It only took one time for me to learn  Now I print a sample, let them see it and go from there  no more customers in my area when I am printing.


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## bob emb (Apr 5, 2007)

Bobbie.

I do not know the perswon that did this, maybe he was just inexperienced.

Bob


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

I was in a retail store once chatting with a manager about dtg printing (before I had mine). At that time, they were the only ones in the area who printed dtg. They were boasting and showing off their machine in the retail area. I glanced over at the computer and saw thier RIP (which was terribly inflated, but I knew the truth). They really didnt try to hide the computer screen at all.

I have customers in my shop sometimes, no biggie. Sometimes the customer wants to see how the shop is ran, more than just the printing method. I have nothing to hide, except the RIP!

But I agree with you Bobbie, no letting them play on the computer!


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I definately have customers that are intersted in seeing how the machine works and I am more than happy to show them the process, just not everything on my computer  I do agree with Thefunk that people are facinated by the machine, thats because it is really cool . I was just as facinated with them, thats why I bought one hehe.


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## EpicGraphics (Dec 25, 2007)

The Brother is a mighty fine workhorse.

The Cost of ink "so they say" is $.01 per .01 cc of ink.
Their cartridges are rated at 200cc of ink and generally cost $200 ea. We bargained and get our ink for $180 a cartridge now 
Our Brother tech told us that to "account for cleanings and misc spirts of ink, Brother says they overfill each cartridge by 20cc"

Is it true? Who knows...

Max Ink I threw on a T was $2.60, nothing compared to the $25 I charged the customer.

If people ask how much it cost, DO NOT TELL THEM " The Print was .25cc of ink so it was $.25... You will get shin kicked by that ol lady who wanted her cute grand kids on her T-shrit saying "Grandma Spoiled" Tell them your machine cost over $20k and the ink cost is about 10 times that of screen printing. It works wonders at our shop.

G' Luck and happy printing.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

EpicGraphics said:


> You will get shin kicked by that ol lady who wanted her cute grand kids on her T-shrit saying "Grandma Spoiled".


Great quote to the end week on.


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## EpicGraphics (Dec 25, 2007)

Nah, my favorite Friday Quote for this month is...

"Come onnnnnnnnnn, Monday!"


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## tpope (Oct 3, 2007)

Mistewoods said:


> The ink cost for the new dtginks is only $215 a liter for the CMYK so that is really quite economical-and it works fine in the Epson print heads.


Cool! That's a good price.


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## odgraphics (Sep 10, 2006)

Why aren't the brothers worth it? It is one of if not the most reliable machine on the market in my opinion. Thousands of shirts printed and down for only one day in the year I've owned it, problem solved after tech speaking to me for 15 minutes. Mind you i caused the down myself. I guess you half to own a brother to understand uhuuummm.


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## AustinJeff (May 12, 2007)

odgraphics said:


> Why aren't the brothers worth it?


I'm not saying Brother's not worth it, but...

Even with a best case scenario of 220ml cartridges and prices of $180, Brother inks are still $600 per liter more.

So how many liters will you print over the life of the printer? Hopefully the printer will last quite a while, and I see no reason to think that it won't, so is 200 liters realistic?

If so, that's a price difference of $120,000+ over the life of the machine. Maybe more.


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## odgraphics (Sep 10, 2006)

All I know is the ease of use makes it worth it. 
• If I Spend $1 on a shirt
• Average of .66cents to $1.50 on 10x12 image
• Sell shirts at $8ea. with a 12 shirt minimum Totaling $100 easy
• My profit is 200% higher than what I started with. 
• Took 15 minutes tops. I don't know about you but Im not greedy.
• I can live with those numbers


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