# JPSS...Cold-Peel...WOW!!!



## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I just did a little experiement.

Let me preface this by saying that I've done a few shirts with Jet-Pro SofStretch, and while they washed nicely, and the hand went away almost completely, I still wasn't happy with the texture of the shirt right after it'd been printed. There was also a little ink left on the backer, and sometimes little holes would be in the design on the shirt.

Well, those were hot-peeled as the instructions say.

But on Coastal's website, it says you can hot OR cold peel this paper. So I did a large print today, trimmed it, and pressed it. Then I let it cool off, and cold-peeled it.

OMG! I couldn't believe it! There were NO pinpricks in the design. There was NO ink left on the backer, and it was SMOOTH on the shirt! I was happy with this paper before, but now I'm completely blown away with it!

JPSS gets a little difficult to peel when you lat it cool off a LITTLE, but when it's cold, yes, there's a little resistence, but it becomes easy to peel again.

I'll be doing wash tests on this method this tomorrow.


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## Parkwood (Jan 14, 2008)

Chani, What was the hand like before you washed it? Less obvious than hot peeled?

I'll have to try this.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

There's definitely a feel to the transfer. But it's a smooth, almost rubbery feel, sort of like OLD iron-on transfers.

But I think it's a more professional feel than when hot-peeling this paper.

Like I said, I still need to wash these, and I'll do that tomorrow, but so far I'm VERY happy. Mark is, too.

Also, I transfered the same image on two different shirts. One 100% cotton, the other 50/50, so I'll be testing the differences between those, too.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I was wondering what to do for a new video.. I think you gave me a great idea.. Thanks..


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Be careful whe you move your shirt to let it cool (if you move it).

I moved the second one I pressed and on the bottom of the transfer the backing paper lifter when it was still hot. Where it lifted (by itself without any help), you can see a little ink on the backer, and on the t-shirt there's a rough feel to the transfer, only in that area.

I press few enough shirts that I don't mind leaving the shirt on our heatpress for a little while to let it cool, but not all people can do that.

If you do move it, move it very carefully.

I can't wait to see your video, Lou! Happy I could help you come up with an idea!


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## Parkwood (Jan 14, 2008)

I just tried it on my small tagless label, 1.5" by 1.5". Definitely has more of a rubbery feel but the type came out much clearer.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

chani Hi I have done that and it is better that is why I tell people not to press after the first time 

and now I have been doing no trimming on the JPSS and no box is left need to wash test before I tell how it is done but it felt more professional then the other way it will only work on full pics unless you have cutter then you could do any thing.

all so find out that pigment ink that is used for printers is all most the same ink that they use for water base screen printing just lot thicker for screen printing


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

chani

what printer did you use to print the paper?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I used my Canon i9900 with our new pigment CIS.


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Hey Chani! What a good idea to test cold-peeling the JPSS! Interesting to see what will happen with the wash tests. I would assume that it will still perform wonderfully!

As far as the 100% cotton vs. 50/50, in my tests, it appears that JPSS performs better on 50/50. After 3 washes now, I can still see the sharp details on the 50/50, whereas they have blurred a bit on the 100% cotton shirt. Color is still excellent on both shirts, but it appears slightly better on the 50/50 shirt because it's a flatter material, and does not have the "hairyness" that the 100% cotton shirt has, ya know?

In preparing for a few jobs I have coming up, I'm actually thinking of buying the Gildan 8000 (50/50) instead of the Gildan 2000 (although I do like the 6.1 oz thickness) because of the difference in performance with JPSS.

Melissa


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

angelic_endeavor said:


> In preparing for a few jobs I have coming up, I'm actually thinking of buying the Gildan 8000 (50/50) instead of the Gildan 2000 (although I do like the 6.1 oz thickness) because of the difference in performance with JPSS.Melissa


Hey Melissa....

Watch the size difference between the Gildan 2000 and the 8000 (blends). If your customer is used to the Gildan Ultra Cotton size, they may not like the smaller blends.

Just something I ran into in the past....


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Chani said:


> Where it lifted (by itself without any help), you can see a little ink on the backer, and on the t-shirt there's a rough feel to the transfer


This is the only thing that I was unhappy about with this paper. Thank you, Chani, I'll have to try this out.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

mrdavid said:


> chani Hi I have done that and it is better that is why I tell people not to press after the first time


I have seen you advise this, and I thought it meant not to do the second press only. Sorry, David, I would have given the cold peel a shot eariler, but I didn't understand what you meant. Thanks for the continued widely varied experiments. You're kind of like Captain Kirk on the SS Heat Press.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

treadhead said:


> Hey Melissa....
> 
> Watch the size difference between the Gildan 2000 and the 8000 (blends). If your customer is used to the Gildan Ultra Cotton size, they may not like the smaller blends.
> 
> Just something I ran into in the past....


hey treadhead, what is the size difference re; gildan 8000 and 2000
thanks earl.


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

treadhead said:


> Hey Melissa....
> 
> Watch the size difference between the Gildan 2000 and the 8000 (blends). If your customer is used to the Gildan Ultra Cotton size, they may not like the smaller blends.
> 
> Just something I ran into in the past....


Hey John! How are you doin'? Haven't seen you too much on the Forum lately...

Actually I had to LOL at your post above -- I did think of that, and was actually comparing the dimensions given on different apparel sites. I was afraid that the sizing would be smaller on the 50/50, since I had noticed that with Jerzee brand shirts I had in stock compared to the Gildan 2000 I had in stock. I thought maybe using Gildan's 50/50 (8000 line) would ensure the sizing would be the same, just a different material. However, when looking at the dimensions on the shirts, each t-shirt wholesaler had different dimensions for the same exact shirt!

This is kind of important for one project I'm doing -- my daughter's birthday party. She's going to be 5, so the size XS (2 -4) Hanes I used for last year's party will probably still fit, but will probably be too small for some of the boys and the taller girls. I thought maybe using Gildan 2000 would give a slightly bigger fit without having to go to the 6-8 size, which will be too big for jthe majority of the kids. I really didn't want to use 100% cotton, though, because through my tests, I've found the JPSS retains all the fine, sharp, details -- more so than on the 100% cotton.

Can anyone share what they find to be the biggest 50/50 shirt, the best quality 50/50 shirt, etc.? I'm really at a loss here what to do, and could use a little advice  

Melissa


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Oops -- sorry Chani -- I forgot what thread I was in, when posting back to Treadhead... Didn't mean to hijack your thread!  

Nekussa


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

No problem! 

But on the subject of JPSS cold-peeled (  ), I just took the HOT water washed shirts out and the look and feel very nice! The only thing, which I'm not sure can EVER be completely taken care of with inkjet transfers, is that the black area (most of this transfer is very dark or black) cracks a little when stretched. Well, you can see white in the weave of the shirt when you stretch the black areas.

Color turned out very well. It faded SLIGHTLY, and it was a LITTLE better with the 50/50, but overall it looks VERY good. The only way I could tell that it faded any was because I had a control that I pressed but didn't wash. That one in in a cold water wash now to see if it holds up any better.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Chani said:


> The only thing, which I'm not sure can EVER be completely taken care of with inkjet transfers, is that the black area (most of this transfer is very dark or black) cracks a little when stretched. Well, you can see white in the weave of the shirt when you stretch the black areas.


I see that as well with JPSS, but find when I release the stretch, it springs back and the white disappears. Are you also finding it only appears with the stretch, and goes away when not stretched?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Yes, exactly.

I wouldn't use any transfer paper for lights with super-stretchy or tight shirts, but it's great on normal t-shirts.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree. The paper or website lists spandex as possible, but I did not like it on a preshrunk cotton with 5% spandex. It was too much with the ... I don't want to say cracking because it goes back to the original image when not stretched .... but the amount of white ribbing was much wider and worse with the spandex. Too bad, too, b/c the girls love that material in their shirts. Oh well.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

ewwwwwwwwwwww.....

I just took the COLD water wash and low heat dry shirt out. NOT good. If you pull on the design it cracks horribly, and has more of a hand than the hot water wash. It's a very smooth feel, but it's still heavier than the hot water wash.

I'll be suggesting to my customers to wash these shirts, at least on the first wash, in HOT water.

The colors didn't fade at all as far as I can tell on the cold water wash, but I DON'T like the cracking at all.

This was on a 50/50 shirt. I need to try one on a 100% cotton shirt now.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I should also mention that I prefer the feel of these transfers on 100% cotton. There's a little more of a hand on our Gildan 8000's and almost no hand the 100% cotton shirt we printed.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Are these results only for your cold peel shirts, Chani?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Yes.

As far as I know, if you hot peel JPSS the cold water wash comes out fine.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, that's what I've found, too, hot peel, good - make that great - wash results. I've found the cold and warm wash both to come out great.

I guess I'll opt for the slightly rough feel over the no so good wash result. Well, thank you, Chani. Another road traveled and reported on. You're insights are appreciated very much.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

_*Yes Chani thank you so much for your hard work in testing all the different methods. As I have stated before I am just now moving into getting my materials etc for mass productions. And have been unsure as to which transfer paper would work best for me. I to be honest had heard more about the iron all paper and not so much about JPSS. With the test results being posted here and all the comments about iron all losing color after washing it just affirms that I need JPSS to offer the quality product I am wanting to offer.*  _


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Here is a test I think I will try. Gildan 2000 shirt. JPSS cut in half. Press. Pull one side off hot. Wait. Pull second half off cold. Wash in cold water.. I will be using durabrite ink. After a year my cis system on my c88 decided to give me trouble... over 2000 prints. Lou


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Sounds great, Lou!

I don't think you'll be happy with the cold water wash on cold-peel.

Rick, I fully support JPSS. I've tried IronAll, too, and I just couldn't risk selling shirts with that in case my customer followed normal washing conditions and washed white shirts pressed with IronAll in hot water.

JPSS, on the other hand, I'm going to tell my customers that they NEED to wash it in hot water the first time, at least, because I'll be cold-peeling it. I love the color retension and the fact that NO chunks of the design are lifted with the backer as it did to me with a shirt for my cousin when I hot-peeled.

I'll be redoing that shirt and sending it to him again. I just feel horrible about sending him a bad shirt (I didn't have time to redo it as I let my transfers dry COMPLETELY before pressing).

Hmmm...all that sounded a little confusing. Let's just say that I'll be cold-peeling and recommending that customers wash in hot water (as with most whites).


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

badalou said:


> Here is a test I think I will try. Gildan 2000 shirt. JPSS cut in half. Press. Pull one side off hot. Wait. Pull second half off cold. Wash in cold water.. I will be using durabrite ink.


That'd be neato, sir.



badalou said:


> After a year my cis system on my c88 decided to give me trouble... over 2000 prints. Lou


Wowwwww, that is alot of prints in one year, that's not even the only thing you do, where do you find the time?

Lou, you said giving you trouble, but not quitting. That's alot of trouble free prints, wouldn't you say? Sorry to hear it, what's happening? Lou, what do you think the lifespan of a CIS is printwise? 

If feel like I'm finding out just how many miles a Jeep really can last!
I've heard the body will rust off b4 the 6 cyl motors will give out.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Leatherneck said:


> _*As I have stated before I am just now moving into getting my materials etc for mass productions.*_




*Hiya Rick,*
*Good luck as you head out.*



leatherneck said:


> _* And have been unsure as to which transfer paper would work best for me. I to be honest had heard more about the iron all paper and not so much about JPSS. *_


Jetpro is fairly new to the market, not much was known about it just a few months ago, so we're all trying to find it's personality.

I've had great luck with Ironall light on 50/50, Jerzee Heavyweight. But not being able to afford too much more testing, I didn't find any others that performed as well in my test of about 6-8 shirts. I don't want to risk it with Ironall. 

I'm not crazy about the Jerzee quality, so I'm hoping JPSS opens that up, tho I find I have excellent results on the 50/50 blends there, too.

I'm relying on everyone else's use of JPSS with so many kinds of shirts to clue me in that JPSS will react well with the other mfg and style's. Everyone seems to find the JP great in their wash tests. Best regards and good luck. Hope setting up is smooth sailing and keep us posted how your testing's going when your selecting your shirt and paper combination.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

My Jeeps were the best vehicles I EVER owned!

I originally had a '95 Wrangler (Jeep red...oooooohhhh), and then I traded that for a '98 Grand Cherokee (Also red!  ).

Then divorce happened, and now I'm driving a '94 Geo Prism. 

I miss my Wrangler.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

_Hi Kelly , I will certainly be sure to keep everyone up to date. Thank you for the well wishes I am feeling alot more confident since I was able to join here and have access to all the wonderful knowledge shared. I'm also looking forward to lou's hot peel vs cold peel test. Good to see you._


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Another thing I thought I'd share...I noticed that the white in the ribs is MUCH more visible on the 50/50 when you stretch it than the 100% cotton.

Good luck, Rick!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Chani said:


> My Jeeps were the best vehicles I EVER owned!
> 
> I originally had a '95 Wrangler (Jeep red...oooooohhhh), and then I traded that for a '98 Grand Cherokee (Also red!  ).
> 
> ...


 Awww.....


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> That'd be neato, sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am finding that I wish I could replace parts.. like the knees , hips, hair.. everthing eles is working fine.. thank god.. ..


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

LOL! Lou. 

Not a bad list, could be worse. 

Sounds like you sleep like a baby!!

Looking forward to your test, be nice to see the side by side comparison, thanks, Lou.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

*Good morning Kelly.... I agree Lou's list could be worse*  . *I am also looking forward to the side by side test with anticipation. *

*Chani, I forgot to post but wanted to tell you thank you for your thoughts on iron all and jpss  . I understand completely wanting to offer quality merchandise to customers. When I first started researching this I was so overwhelmed by all the information that I uncovered. There is alot of work and dedication involved to make sure you are offering the best quality product possible thru testing and research. jpss seems to be the best the market has to offer at this time with color retention and durability combined. *


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

ok just putting a HI on this thread so i get info about it  hehe i logged on this morning and i had 2 pages to look at  was very interested in the cold peel,just 1 question i have asked it before in other threads but no one seems to know so here's hoping have any of you come across a paper that has a raised border across the top its for laser printer's or are u all on inkjet?the paper is called Hot Trans in uk.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

deniseg said:


> ok just putting a HI on this thread so i get info about it  hehe i logged on this morning and i had 2 pages to look at  was very interested in the cold peel,just 1 question i have asked it before in other threads but no one seems to know so here's hoping have any of you come across a paper that has a raised border across the top its for laser printer's or are u all on inkjet?the paper is called Hot Trans in uk.


*i'm sorry denise, i'm an inkjet guy ... don't really know anything about laser printing *


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Hi Denise,

Me, too. I only have a couple of inkjet printers, so I don't have any experience with laser papers at all.

Sorry.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Denise, sorry here, as well. I read that other post, but never heard of it, so no response here. Haven't even read anything in my travels, so no info to point to, either. Hope you find it. I think your question is in two threads, but buried. Have you posted it as it's own thread yet, might get more attention from the others.


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

thnx Kelly will do 


edit "now if i can only find out how to start a new thread " looks puzzled * seem to have lost my button* hehe


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: JPSS...Cold-Peel...WOW!!! (PHOTOS!)*

I did a test on JPSS hot peel versus cold peel today and with Chani's blessing I've got some photos to share. I cut a transfer in half and pressed it, peeling one side cold and one side hot (pretty much what Lou was talking about).

Now keep in mind that *these are PRE-WASH photos*. I love y'all and everything but I'm not coughing up $2 to wash/dry this shirt today. Laundry day is Monday so it will have to wait until then. 

Some background info: I am using Magic Mix ink and pressing at 400º for 30 seconds at heavy pressure. The substrate is Gildan 100% Ultra Cotton. I did not trim the transfer.

As Chani stated, the cold peel is VERY smooth ... in fact it's smoother than the shirt (and IMHO smoother than IronAll)!  As she also stated, the ink transfers very well to the shirt. There is a little ghosting but I attribute that to saturated ink and also to the fact that I printed this transfer over a month ago.

Here's a photo of the transfer paper after pressing:









Here's how it transferred to the shirt. As you can see there is almost a waxy film (the polymer, I suppose) that covers the cold peel side and makes it a bit shiny. This film also makes the colors appear a little duller:









Here's a closer view (notice how the polymer window is more visible on the cold peel side):









And finally, a super close view:









I'll post more photos once I've washed the shirt .....


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

From the looks of "queerrep"s post.. I would rather continue to hot peel.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Me, too, thank you for the testing, Rhonda. Be nice to see the shirt again on Tuesday after wash day. Thanks again, Rhonda.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

hi rhonda, thanks for the demo,it was very helpful.
one question; how did the hot peel feel to you? 

regards earl


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I would, too, but half of the hot-peels that I've done have had little holes in the design from peeling, so I'm a little scared of that method.

Even tho it's a little rubbery or waxy, I don't mind the look or feel of the cold-peel, and it all goes away once you wash it in hot water. 

But to each their own!


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

I don't mind the look, either. My post was not meant to pooh-pooh cold peel because it feels GREAT and more than likely I'm going to use it. In all honesty, showing it side-by-side as I did (along with the angle I shot from) really exaggerates the color difference. I seriously doubt it would even be noticeable if the entire design was trimmed and peeled cold – and also the 'dullness' is pretty much negligible on the lighter colors in the print.



earl said:


> hi rhonda, thanks for the demo,it was very helpful.
> one question; how did the hot peel feel to you?


You're welcome, Earl. The hot peel side feels a good bit rougher than the shirt. (On a side note, I have found that re-pressing the shirt with a Teflon sheet on top makes it a little smoother.)

On a scale with 0 being the hand of the shirt itself and 10 being the most hand, I would give the JPSS hot peel a 3 and the JPSS cold peel a -1.  IronAll would be a 0 and TransJet II would be a 6. CasiQLT would be a 10.* But remember this is before washing.
*This is the Rhonda Scale and is not approved by anybody but me. =)

*(Comment to everybody in general)*
It's important to remember that as with any other transfer paper out there, there's gonna be some give and take. You can go with the hot peel and have a little hand with no change in color – or you can go with the cold peel and have NO hand with slightly dulled colors. Of course in Chani's case, she's going to use the method that transfers 100% of the ink and doesn't leave chunks of the ink on the paper and holes in the printed design.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I have one more concern. Chani experienced JPSS cracking when she washed the shirt in water temperature that was not hot. It does not crack in a hot wash. 

Chani says cold peel absolutely has to be hot washed the first time.

My concern would be a customer that agrees to hot wash, and forgets, and uses another temp.

Chani, when you didn't use hot wash, was it warm or cold? Just wondering if warm wash is close enough to prevent the cracking.

I know alot of folks by me that have my shirts. I tell them cold wash and they say that's all they use, cold. This may not be a concern for everyone. 

I would love to cold peel. I don't like the slightly gritty feel of JP peeled hot. When I seriously considered cold peel, I decided to take a pass because of Chani's hot water first wash or it'll crack recommendation because I'm not sure if that'll happen in reality. It's what we're always saying, will the customer wash on cold? Now it would be, for me, will they make sure they do that first one on hot?

If not, there's a cracking issue, which I feel defeats the purpose and expense of JP. Just my 2c.

My dream: the feel of cold peel, peeled hot.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

My wash test was in hot water, but I plan on doing a warm water wash soon on a new shirt and see if that works as well.

I know my main concern with IronAll all these months is that your customer might not wash it the way you tell them to, so yes, this kinda defeats the purpose, but the color retension is so much better than IronAll with just about the same feel once it's been washed.

The thing with the hot water wash...that's only the FIRST time it's washed. After that, you can wash it however you want and it won't crack. So I'll just include a note with all my shirts telling my customers to wash before wearing, and make sure that they wash it on HOT for their shirts' FIRST wash.

I'm even considering offering a pre-wash to my customers for a price. I'd wash them before shipping them, in hot water, but without detergent or softener, just in case anyone is alergic to what we use. Mark's against that, but I think it might help some people.


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## Ernie (Nov 2, 2007)

Chani said:


> My wash test was in hot water, but I plan on doing a warm water wash soon on a new shirt and see if that works as well.
> 
> I know my main concern with IronAll all these months is that your customer might not wash it the way you tell them to, so yes, this kinda defeats the purpose, but the color retension is so much better than IronAll with just about the same feel once it's been washed.
> 
> ...


Would you have to iron them if you washed them? At least you could check for shrinkage. 

Ernie


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I would definitely give them an all-over second press. 

We haven't had any shrinking problems with Gildan 2000's at all, so I'm not really worried about that.

The thing I'm a little worried about with a second press is that when I did that with a teflon sheet once, some of the ink transfered to the teflon sheet and almost ruined a shirt that Mark was making with a white plastisol sheet.

I think if I do a second press anymore, it will be with silicone sheets instead of our teflon sheet. I don't want to ruin any shirts!!!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Chani said:


> I'm even considering offering a pre-wash to my customers for a price. I'd wash them before shipping them, in hot water,


Yes, I agree with you, Chani. To me, this is also the only sure way to protect the shirt's quality and my reputation as well. I've tossed this idea around in my head, but can't settle on how I think the customer will take to it.

I really would like to get that smoother finish, and this is the only way I can see making sure there isn't a product failure by accident on the customer's end. If it's prewashed that first time in hot for them, they will only know how wonderful their new shirt is. All is safe.

I try to think of when I've bought a shirt that was washed before I got it, but then I think of PreWash Jeans, and that is so normal and common and widely accepted. I also believe I never pay any attention when a label on a shirt says it was pre-washed to control shrinkage, for my benefit. 

I've been trying to figure out how to fly this so no customer will question why. Maybe prewashed for their benefit (they won't know what benefit) is a good way to put it to them. Maybe it adds points for our consideration of them. 

Thinking about using this procedure to ensure the shirts retain the quality they were produced with, what does everyone think the customer will think of it?

Does anyone have good marketing suggestions to lead with if a customer questions the procedure?

Thanks a zillion!


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

i would tell them to wash in hot water first wash only, so the design on the shirt will stay brighter due to the heat.(tell them it is trick of the trade.)
if you were to do it for them it would increase the cost of the garment.

regards earl


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Right on, Earl. Thanks for the great post. I like it!!!!!


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Speaking solely for myself, I am happy with the quality of the feel of JPSS hot-peeled. Granted there's a certain stickiness or gumminess when peeling (which can be better or worse, depending on the "hairyness" of the material) which can sometimes leave an area of bumpiness or roughness, and at times, maybe atiny "pinhole" may appear (although I've seldom had this happen)... BUT, I AM DEFINITELY NOT GETTING INVOLVED WITH WASHING/DRYING/PRESSING SHIRTS BEFORE DELIVERING TO A CUSTOMER. I've done my wash tests with JPSS hot-peeled, and am satisfied with the performance of JPSS before and after washing, even against washing instructions.

If you put a note to the Customer advising to wash first with hot water, who knows if they will even read the note, let alone follow the directions. Isn't that why we've all been testing JPSS in HOT water and in a HOT dryer, against all the instructions? There's just too much risk, being that it's out of your control. Pre-washing all outgoing garments is a can of worms that I'm not opening, either -- for many reasons: significant added cost, time, risk of customer having allergy, etc. I don't think either of these "solutions" are viable for my business model. I'm sticking to what I KNOW works, and is also the simplest and most cost-effective for my business. Quite frankly, getting a "smooth" feel to something I think is negligible already, and avoiding a tiny pinhole every now and then just isn't worth it.

Melissa


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

You make excellent points, Melissa. 

You're exactly right, too. That's the entire reason we've been washing against manufacturers' recomendations...to see if they stand up to our tests.

That's why I AM torn on this.

I guess I'll do some more testing, but I'm still leaning toward cold-peel.

I HATE that cold-peel cracks under cold-water washings. I really do.

I ordered more shirts and more paper to test with, so I'll see what I come up with. It may be that under certain conditions I'll need to hot-peel and under others I'll need to cold-peel. I just need to know that when I make a shirt I'll get the results I'm hoping for.

I ran out of time and materials when I made a shirt for my cousin, so when I hot-peeled his shirt, there was a hole in the design. I sent it to him anyway, telling him that I'd happily make another if he found this offensive. He said it was "okay". Not exactly the reaction I was hoping for.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

queerrep do you mind taking more photos [up close] of the hot/cold peel you did AFTER the washes?? Pleeeeeease!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I think I'm going to try a cold peel to see how it feels, if I was to go with it, I would use Earl's suggestion for the customer. But, I also agree and said earlier, giving wash instructions is what we all worry about in the first place. 

I'm also inclined to stick with hot peet. I do wish for the hand to be as smooth as Ironall, but I don't think I can let the risk involved move me away from hot peel either. 

I haven't had any complaints, and I don't have any objections to hot peel JP, other than the slight grittiness of the finish. I may try parchment paper for my second press to see if it makes a smoother finish than the teflon does.

I haven't experienced any of the lumpiness or clumping. I also believe different shirts are reacting differently with the product, so I suppose I will kick out the time and money for the testing. I still have enough stock, but I may as well find out now what shirt I'll be using later on.

Chani, I look forward to you future tests results, and will post mine with parchment paper second press. I really would like the gritties gone.


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Chani said:


> You make excellent points, Melissa.
> 
> You're exactly right, too. That's the entire reason we've been washing against manufacturers' recomendations...to see if they stand up to our tests.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your cousin's reaction. Quite shocking, actually! I've had extraneous, colored fibers show up under the transfer, pinholes, etc., and I've NEVER had a bad reaction to any of my shirts! I actually thought that I must just be extremely picky, whereas the average consumer is not. After being somewhat in the music business as a teenager, I've learned that most untrained ears cannot hear when you're a semitone "off" -- and the same is true for those not in the t-shirt biz -- I don't think they don't see the minute things (colors slightly off, fibers on shirt, etc.) like we do!  

My "theory" of why the cold peel is cracking on the shirts after a cold wash, is because after being pressed, the polymer is hardening upon cooling, and because the shirt is not being stretched after the transfer is pressed, the polymer is kind of laying on top of the shirt, instead of "melting" into the crevices of the material when peeled and stretched hot. When washed in HOT water, maybe this allows the transfer to melt a little, and settle into the fibers a little better? Maybe that's why the washing following the initial one doesn't really matter too much...

Sorry to hear you're so torn on this -- it seemed like you were so happy with the performance of JPSS recently, it's sad to hear that you're again being faced with yet another decision on what/how to use going forward...  

Melissa


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Yeah, I was VERY happy with JPSS, and I still recommend it and feel that it IS commercially viable, but after haveing holes in a couple of shirts (not just pinholes, but about 1/8" round holes), I'm a little afraid of hot-peeling them.

I guess I just need to do some more testing to see if I'm actually doing something wrong, or anything like that. I might increase the pressure on my press a little. It's high right now, but it could be a little higher, I suppose.

Again, don't get me wrong...I'm VERY happy with this paper compared to all papers before it, but I think there still could be some improvements.

My main concern with IronAll is that it mostly goes on white shirts, and most people I know equate white shirts with hot water washes. IronAll + hot water = disaster.

Even when I worked in a laundry, we washed all whites on HOT water. My dad has always done the same. That's the reason I'm not as concerned telling people to wash in hot water as I was with telling people to wash in cold water with IronAll, if that makes any sense. 

I still need to do a warm water test with cold-peeling to see if it performs as well as the hot water wash. Not sure if it will or not.

I just got 50 more sheets of 11x17 from UPS today, so I think I'll make another LARGE print and a few more smaller prints to see what I come up with.  And I also have plenty of quarters for washing!  I only have one more white t-shirt, tho, and won't have any more until tomorrow, so my tests will need to wait until then.


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

AdamnSmith said:


> queerrep do you mind taking more photos [up close] of the hot/cold peel you did AFTER the washes?? Pleeeeeease!


No problem!


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I'm about to print up another shirt and I'll do a warm water test of cold-peeling tomorrow. I'll do the same design that I used for the other ones so I can make an absolute comparrison.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

how about trying a warm peel? maybe that is the answer.

regards earl.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

That's another thing I'd like to try.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Actually, come to think about it...I'm wondering if I had that hole in my cousin's shirt because I didn't peel it IMMEDIATELY. That may have been my warm-peel test.

The reason I didn't peel it HOT HOT HOT was because it was contour cut and I would have ripped the backer if I'd just done a sweeping peel.

Hmmm...I think I need to update my JPSS vs Plotter test thread...


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

you go girl 

regards earl


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah, I don't think the warm peel works so good (in my experience, anyway). If I don't peel immediately it sticks like glue. That's why I was so shocked that you could peel JPSS cold.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

_JET-PRO SofStretch Heat Transfer Paper_ is a new product using the newest technology. It was created to combine the look and feel of screen printing with the ease of desktop printing.

The new product has excellent hand for cotton, poly and blends. 
The colors are vivid and the coating holds ink for maximum color saturation. 
The product has great washability. The hand actually improves with washing. Fifteen or more washes with good color retention and no bursts or cracks are expected. 
*This is our first product for both hot and cold peel.*

In addition, JET-PRO SofStretch Heat Transfer Paper works with almost any ink jet printer, even the very inexpensive models. *It can be used on sweatshirts, leather, veneers and many other surfaces.* This product is designed for light color fabrics and can be used by both the commercial shirt producer and as an easy-to-use product in art studios and cottage industries.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The above is from Coastal's site. I plan to explore the leather, veneers and other surfaces. 

Can anybody recommend some 'veneers'?


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

Great tests chani and rhonda  I'm looking forward to your results. thank you for all of your effort!


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

Just a small question when u peel hot hot hot hehe how do your finger's stand the heat mine nearly have blisters on  i don't have long nails is there a secret


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

No, no secret! A quick light touch!

If it would help, do you think using maybe a toothpick just to start it or better yet some nice surgical type tweezers would help? I'm sure being careful not to damage the image would be a part of it!


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I usually do have longer fingernails, so that helps a LOT. Recently I got nervous and chewed them all off. 

What I've found works to start peeling is to have something to slide under your transfer. I just happened to grab a fingernail clipper (ironic, isn't it?  ) and turned the file out and used that to get under a corner of the transfer. That seemed to help quite a bit, tho I still scorched my fingertips a little.


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

thnx i'll try that hehe now to go hunt for where i put my nail file


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Another thing is that eventually you'll become used to the heat, so it won't bother you quite as much. I don't know if it's callouses (sp?) or what, but it does get easier.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree, I still jump once in a while, but for the most part, I don't even think about it.


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## ivancuriel (Dec 3, 2007)

deniseg said:


> Just a small question when u peel hot hot hot hehe how do your finger's stand the heat mine nearly have blisters on  i don't have long nails is there a secret


Well I havent made any transfers yet. But I would think when you cut out your design, cut out a little tab that you can fold over onto the back of the paper and then heat press. and when you're ready to peel. just pull the tab and maybe the paper will come up like that? You could try cutting out a little tab on the corner and just fold it over onto the back of the paper and then heat press. maybe that will work? Try it!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Ivan, I think that would make a dent in the image where it folds over. Not sure, but I strive to make sure everything is flat. It's really not bad, it only hurts for a second.

Honestly, I rarely feel it, but once in a while.


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## ivancuriel (Dec 3, 2007)

Ahh I see! lol. Well I just thought it might be worth mentioning because I've read these papers are hard to peel off.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Lol, no worries, it's not that bad, I think we're making it seem harder than it is.


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> Hi Ivan, I think that would make a dent in the image where it folds over. Not sure, but I strive to make sure everything is flat. It's really not bad, it only hurts for a second.


Yeah, it would also get polymer on the platen since the tab would be facing up if you fold it back, right? (Unless you used parchment or Teflon.) But that's some creative thinking, Ivan. 



Girlzndollz said:


> Honestly, I rarely feel it, but once in a while.


Pulling the design up hot with my fingers doesn't bother me at all now. I guess I have those lovely callouses somebody mentioned.  LOL

I do remember in the beginning when hot peeling that I would pull my hand back real quick because it hurt only to smack the platen with the top of my hand and get a burn. (Good reason not to buy a clam shell.) Luckily I don't scar easily.

I've read that some people use oven mitts but that seems like it would be way too clumsy. I wonder if there is something thinner out there ... maybe a thin glove made of Teflon? 

BTW Kelly ... you're looking good in black. =)


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

i can say i have never burnt my greedy lil digits  but when i started i was very cautious not to touch anything but the transfer lol. now being so cautious on my very first attempt i did pull part of the transfer off and the other half stayed with the shirt  lucky me. but eventually i found the right touch and now just peel them off.... boy it would be nice if there was a glove or something that would allow us to remove the transfers easilly but i have never seen anything like that.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

i agree totally i think leaving a tab or anything on the transfer paper would leave a dent in the transfer... probably just going to have to do it the old fashioned way.... sacrificing the digits to the heat


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Well maybe there is such a thing after all. Just found this: Teflon Glove, Withstands temperatures up to 540 degrees, and does not catch fire or melt! Handle and more. Fits either hand.


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

lol  very good Rhonda


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

no fingernails LOL and have no feelings in the tip of fingers after 30 peels


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

queerrep said:


> I do remember in the beginning when hot peeling that I would pull my hand back real quick because it hurt only to smack the platen with the top of my hand and get a burn. (Good reason not to buy a clam shell.) Luckily I don't scar easily.


 Awwwww.....



> I've read that some people use oven mitts but that seems like it would be way too clumsy. I wonder if there is something thinner out there ... maybe a thin glove made of Teflon?


Someone mentioned fireplace gloves, too. I just couldn't see any gloves, I think it would slow me down and I want to peel fairly fast, but not too fast, ya know? 



> BTW Kelly ... you're looking good in black. =)


Thank you, Rhonda. It went too quickly.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Rhonda, there you go, I just clicked the link, now that glove could be the bomb. Looks like it could be worked with. Great find, I'm going to check that out. I am nervous - even tho I move carefully. I did get a burn that burnt on all day once.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Y'know, if you used that glove along with something to lift a corner of your transfers (like a nail file or...) it might work!


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## Ernie (Nov 2, 2007)

queerrep said:


> Well maybe there is such a thing after all. Just found this: Teflon Glove, Withstands temperatures up to 540 degrees, and does not catch fire or melt! Handle and more. Fits either hand.


I bought one of these for $15 at the store....kitchenwares department. Haven't tried it yet though. I think you would still need something to get underneath it and lift it up but the glove would protect from heat.

Ernie


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

And congrats, Kelly!  Way to go!

Did you tell me yesterday that it would take you a while to get there?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

So I thought!  And thank you. It really flew. Anyway, I'm trying out avatars b/c my lovey Labby was also black.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

deniseg said:


> Just a small question when u peel hot hot hot hehe how do your finger's stand the heat mine nearly have blisters on  i don't have long nails is there a secret


My girl has these tweezer things that she uses for... whatever girls use stuff for.. i grab those and use them. They squeeze like scissors.. have little finger holes ya know? Like scissors... but they are tweezer things./ Works great!


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

around my shop fingernails are not a fashion accessory, they're tools! especially the thumbnail on my right hand - i may at times break/chew/mutilate the rest, but that one's a necessity! slip it under one edge of the backing and go 

congrats kelly - love the unicorn 

back to the question at hand.......did you maybe try a little more pressure on your hot peels chani?? i know i've peeled other papers and even plastisols and vinyl sometimes and realized immediately that i didn't have quite enough pressure on the platen - mine gets changed all the time from shirts to tiles to other stuff and sometimes it takes me a press or two to get it where i need it (i don't have a digital pressure gauge on mine).


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

wish I had a black tshirt... or at least one with a real image... I think its time for me to check my acct settings and get that done.


edit:.... Nice... Now all I need is a black shirt


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Jan,

I laughed as I regard the right thumb the worker for the job. I always say"Okay, here we go." As if each time I'm not quite sure how it's going to go. 

I didn't have that peeling Ironall. I just loved peeling that paper. And Jetpro has a weird odor I don't prefer. If I could take the smoother hand and peelability of Ironall and the rest of Jetpro, I'd be a 100% satisfied consumer! But I'll take 99% that I am now!

Thanks so much, I'm glad you like the avatar. Have a great weekend!


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

kelly awesome avatar  ... the heat really doesn't bother me but it's better to be safe than sorry perhaps i will check out one of the teflon gloves as well! great find on that one thank you


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Thank you, and Rhonda found that glove, but ---- that site wants $99 (plus shipping I'm sure) for a C88+, so that glove is cheaper somewhere else, but I really like that it is meshy, so it can grab the paper edge --_ maybe._


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Jan,

I haven't done my new tests yet. I just got new shirts from UPS today, so I'll either be pressing tonite or tomorrow, and washing either Sunday or Monday.

After that I'll let everyone know how things turn out. I'll be doing another cold-peel with a warm water wash and I'll be doing hot-peel tests with both hot and cold water washes to see what differences each make.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Doug...the only way to get a black shirt it to either have 1000 posts or to become Most Helpful Member in August. If you're nominated at MHM you get to choose your own color!


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Why in August? Why not any other month?? 

Oh, is it like "for the year" and august happens to be the end of that 'year' period? I dont know enough to be the most helpful member!!! I should just start making pointless posts just to get to 1,000!!!! hahaha


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Ah, but Rodney catches posts like that and deletes them. 

Just take your time, learn as much as you can, and then pass that knowledge along to others.  You'll get there eventually.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

AdamnSmith said:


> I should just start making pointless posts just to get to 1,000!!!! hahaha


 You'd feel like your wearing cheap perfume, if you were a girl. My grand went fast (too fast) but I've deleted more of my own posts than anyone could- due to repetitive or not topic. Anyway, I've had my share of laughs as well, but that's part of building community. You'll get there, and your avatar made me laugh!


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Girlzndollz said:


> You'd feel like your wearing cheap perfume, if you were a girl.


I'll walk on anyone I have to in order to get my black shirt... ANYONE!!! lol jk


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

ok starting my test tomorrow(as hubby is home and can take the photo's) but do u want me to post here or make a new 1 as it will be for laser printer i no longer use my epson  ?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Denise, is it for paper? If its the paper your testing, how about Mrdavid's thread on paper testing? What do you think?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

AdamnSmith said:


> I'll walk on anyone I have to in order to get my black shirt... ANYONE!!! lol jk


 
These's boot were made for walking, and that's just what they'll do!

_I think I know what the avatar should be!!_

_Be nice, Doug, I know you are still disappointed about the JetDark, I'm sorry, it's not my fault, really, I am merely the messenger._


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

ok thats cool Kelly will do  forgot this wasn't it lol


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Good luck with your testing, I hope it goes well.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Girlzndollz said:


> _Be nice, Doug, I know you are still disappointed about the JetDark, I'm sorry, it's not my fault, really, I am merely the messenger._



*buries head in hands* ... I know... I know...


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

Chani said:


> Jan,
> 
> I haven't done my new tests yet. I just got new shirts from UPS today, so I'll either be pressing tonite or tomorrow, and washing either Sunday or Monday.
> 
> After that I'll let everyone know how things turn out. I'll be doing another cold-peel with a warm water wash and I'll be doing hot-peel tests with both hot and cold water washes to see what differences each make.


*I'm definately looking forward to your test results Chani. Thank you again for doing so much testing to everyones benefit. *


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I'm sorry, I didn't have a chance to do my new tests this weekend. 

I'll get to them as soon as I can!


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

*well i'll keep my hopes up with anticipation chani  you are so fantastic about doing research and testing ... i honestly do appreciate your efforts*


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

We all do!


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

angelic_endeavor said:


> We all do!


*absolutely, i have learned so much since joining this forum.  *


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

I was able to do the test wash yesterday. I cut the design right across the middle horizontally in order to get both a hot peel and cold peel portion on each piece of shirt. [Maybe this wasn't such a good idea because the t-shirt curled making it hard to photograph.  I'll have to get some double sided tape or something to hold it down.]

One side was washed in cold water and dried on high heat. The other side was washed in hot water and dried on high heat.

*The result:*
Both sides feel and look the same! The 'waxy' film that was on the cold peel side disappeared! I'm not seeing any cracking on either side.

I'll try to get some photos up later today if I can figure out a way to hold the cut edges down.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Thank you so much, Rhonda!!! That's something I haven't been able to bring myself to do yet is cut a t-shirt apart. 

Maybe the key is NOT hot water washing but HIGH heat drying for cold-peel!

There's no difference in fading at all? If not, this is good news!!!

Looks like I need to sacrifice a shirt later today.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

hi rhonda, which one was washed in cold water?

regards earl


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

She split her original transfer vertically, cold-peeled one side, and hot-peeled the other. Then when she went to wash her shirt, she cut the actual shirt, splitting her graphic horizontally.

So both the hot-peel and cold-peel were washed in hot water, and also washed in cold water.  Very clever the way she did this!

The thing is, she dried BOTH of her wash tests on HIGH heat, so there's still an extra instruction to give your customer with the cold-peel transfers.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

queerrep said:


> I was able to do the test wash yesterday. I cut the design right across the middle horizontally in order to get both a hot peel and cold peel portion on each piece of shirt. [Maybe this wasn't such a good idea because the t-shirt curled making it hard to photograph.  I'll have to get some double sided tape or something to hold it down.]
> 
> One side was washed in cold water and dried on high heat. The other side was washed in hot water and dried on high heat.
> 
> ...


*wow rhonda, thank you for your in depth testing. i look forward to your pics if your able to get any on here. i agree with chani, very smart way you did your testing  *


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

hi rhonda, you are saving a lot of people a lot of time and money.

i for one really appreciate it "thank you"

regards earl


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

queerrep said:


> I was able to do the test wash yesterday. I cut the design right across the middle horizontally in order to get both a hot peel and cold peel portion on each piece of shirt. [Maybe this wasn't such a good idea because the t-shirt curled making it hard to photograph.  I'll have to get some double sided tape or something to hold it down.]
> 
> One side was washed in cold water and dried on high heat. The other side was washed in hot water and dried on high heat.
> 
> ...


Great test, Rhonda! Thanks -- I'm looking forward to seeing the photos!

Melissa


----------



## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

angelic_endeavor said:


> Great test, Rhonda! Thanks -- I'm looking forward to seeing the photos!
> 
> Melissa


*I'm also very excited to see the photos  *


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Okay I've got some photos! I ended up spray-mounting the shirt onto a piece of cardboard. 

In hindsight, I should've printed a uniform shape (like a circle or a square) that could be divided equally so we can compare apples to apples.  Oh well.

The colors look lighter in the post-wash photos but this is because the white fibers of the shirt are sticking up. I don't believe the colors actually washed out any.

As you can see, the waxy polymer layer is completely gone. As far as the hand, both sides feel the same to me.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

*wow rhonda thank you for the pics, it does not appear the color washed out any. the pics are great thank you again for sacrificing a shirt ... so we could see the results awesome test!*


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Okay, thanks for those results, Rhonda. 

Okay guys, I'm staying where we started. I am going hot peel with no special wash instructions, as the cold peel comes out the same in the end, but seems to need some special hot treatment, either washer or dryer. 

Thank all for your experiments. That was interesting to find out about.

Has anyone done a cold peel, cold wash, low temp dryer. Chani, was that your first one, where it cracked? Is that the last variable of the puzzle?

Peace.


----------



## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Okay, thanks for those results, Rhonda.
> 
> Okay guys, I'm staying where we started. I am going hot peel with no special wash instructions, as the cold peel comes out the same in the end, but seems to need some special hot treatment, either washer or dryer.
> 
> ...


*I agree kelly, I think I am going with the hot peel and no special instructions...they do seem to turn out very similar either way. *


----------



## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Girlzndollz said:


> Okay, thanks for those results, Rhonda.
> 
> Okay guys, I'm staying where we started. I am going hot peel with no special wash instructions, as the cold peel comes out the same in the end, but seems to need some special hot treatment, either washer or dryer.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, that's the one that cracked on me. 

When I finally get around to more tests I'm going to try warm/warm, the same as the instructions on the shirt label itself.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

Leatherneck said:


> *I agree kelly, I think I am going with the hot peel and no special instructions...they do seem to turn out very similar either way. *


 
me too 
thanks rhonda "u da bomb" 

reagards earl


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Thanks, Rhonda. This absolutely confirmed my thoughts posted earlier. Virtually no difference, and DEFINITELY not worth getting involved with pre-washing before delivering to customer, or relying on the customer to launder as specified in our instructions.

Hot peel, and wash in any 'ol manner is and always will be the way for me!

Melissa


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

The ONLY reason I'd consider cold-peeling now is because of the issue of your transfer not tranfsering properly, as I've had happen a couple of times. Otherwise, I totally agree that hot-peel seems to be better and more versitle. 

I'm still happy I did the tests I did. 

Most to come!


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

we are all happy you did the tests to chani 

regards earl


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

queerrep said:


> I was able to do the test wash yesterday. I cut the design right across the middle horizontally in order to get both a hot peel and cold peel portion on each piece of shirt. [Maybe this wasn't such a good idea because the t-shirt curled making it hard to photograph.  I'll have to get some double sided tape or something to hold it down.]
> 
> One side was washed in cold water and dried on high heat. The other side was washed in hot water and dried on high heat.
> 
> ...


Great job.. can't wait. I was going to do a video and just can't get the time.. I think I havve a list of the videos I need to do and updates.


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

Chani said:


> The ONLY reason I'd consider cold-peeling now is because of the issue of your transfer not tranfsering properly, as I've had happen a couple of times. Otherwise, I totally agree that hot-peel seems to be better and more versitle.
> 
> I'm still happy I did the tests I did.
> 
> Most to come!


*i'm happy you did the testing as well chani, it certainly helped me out. everyones very effective testing helped me out quite a bit in making my decision  *


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

ivancuriel said:


> Ahh I see! lol. Well I just thought it might be worth mentioning because I've read these papers are hard to peel off.


 
Yeah.... my JPSS is very hard to peel!!!!

But in BADALOU's videos it looks EASY to peel?!?

are we "hard to peelers" doing something wrong ??

HEEEEELP 

thanks to all of you for all of your time posting!!!!!!!!!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Are you pre-pressing the shirt for a few seconds to remove moisture, raising the imprint area above the seams, printing your image on Plain Paper setting, pressing on the heavy side, at 375 for a full 30 seconds, and is your press reaching the correct temperature? 

Usually, one or more of these issues seem to undermine the success of JPSS setting/peeling nicely. I've never had JP peel "like butter" like Ironall, but it's only a little bit more resistant.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Are you pre-pressing the shirt for a few seconds to remove moisture, raising the imprint area above the seams, printing your image on Plain Paper setting, pressing on the heavy side, at 375 for a full 30 seconds, and is your press reaching the correct temperature?
> 
> Usually, one or more of these issues seem to undermine the success of JPSS setting/peeling nicely. I've never had JP peel "like butter" like Ironall, but it's only a little bit more resistant.


 
OOPS!!!
For the last two tests i did not press the shirt first thats probably why they were harder to peel!

The very first test came out great...
press shirt first
place transfer
cover with silicone sheet 
then cover with teflon sheet
then press!

came out looking beautiful!!!! wow 

Was kind of easy to peel BUT not as easy as Badalou's video. 

Will keep testing! 
I AM SUCH A NUBIE TO ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!  

thanks so much for your time!!!!!!!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Are you pre-pressing the shirt for a few seconds to remove moisture, raising the imprint area above the seams, printing your image on Plain Paper setting, pressing on the heavy side, at 375 for a full 30 seconds, and is your press reaching the correct temperature?
> 
> Usually, one or more of these issues seem to undermine the success of JPSS setting/peeling nicely. I've never had JP peel "like butter" like Ironall, but it's only a little bit more resistant.


ohh yeah...

my printer is an EP c120
text/photo 
bright white paper
(badalou's recommendations)

Prints come out awesome!!!

I let it dry for a few minutes.

I do make sure that the seams are out of the way... except for the last test that was my problem there! lol

I am gonna go try some more!!!
i will let you know....

thanks again for helping me


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

ashamutt said:


> cover with silicone sheet
> then cover with teflon sheet
> then press!


You're welcome.

Mrs. Bacon, are you using both the silicone and telfon, together? If you are, you only need to use one. 

Best regards and good luck.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Mrs. Bacon, are you using both the silicone and telfon, together? If you are, you only need to use one.
> 
> Best regards and good luck.


 
oh yes, i am using both.... am i not supposed too? 

Which one do i use for the transfer part??

I use only silicone sheet for the 2nd 5 second press after peeling. 
(did i say they right?)


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Mrs. Bacon, are you using both the silicone and telfon, together? If you are, you only need to use one.
> 
> Best regards and good luck.


ANNNNDD...

I put a silicone sheet inside the shirt to prevent ,what i have read on these forums, is called "blow through"/'bleeding" ??


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

You can use either sheet you prefer, the silicone or teflon. Using both at once is not necessary. 

Whichever you use is more about how you like the way the make the end product look. I hear more and more from folks prefering the re-press (second press) done with silicone, no texture or shine. I've also heard folks re-press with parchment for the same no texture finish. I like teflon during my press, to prevent scorching, and I like to re-press with teflon, I like the finish.

I've never had blow through with pigment ink and heat press papers. I think that is more prevalent in dye-sub and plastisol use.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> You can use either sheet you prefer, the silicone or teflon. Using both at once is not necessary.
> 
> Whichever you use is more about how you like the way the make the end product look. I hear more and more from folks prefering the re-press (second press) done with silicone, no texture or shine. I've also heard folks re-press with parchment for the same no texture finish. I like teflon during my press, to prevent scorching, and I like to re-press with teflon, I like the finish.
> 
> I've never had blow through with pigment ink and heat press papers. I think that is more prevalent in dye-sub and plastisol use.


 
Thank you so much!!!!

I will go try to get it right!!! 

i'll let ya know.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Hey Mrs. Bacon,
Here's a link to a post I wrote a while ago on taking heat press step by step, it's kinda almost sort of like a Lou video written down. I am a "Lou student" and learned from him, so no worries there. It was a quick gathering for someone else on pressing and the various considerations. 

Here's the link if you are interested:http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39007.html#post229735

Good luck to you, you will get it, it just takes a small bit of time to get rolling. We all started in the same place, and are headed in the same direction. Best wishes on your journey.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Hey Mrs. Bacon,
> Here's a link to a post I wrote a while ago on taking heat press step by step, it's kinda almost sort of like a Lou video written down. I am a "Lou student" and learned from him, so no worries there. It was a quick gathering for someone else on pressing and the various considerations.
> 
> Here's the link if you are interested:http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39007.html#post229735
> ...


 

THANK YOU KELLY!!!

You are so sweet!!!

i am going to the link now!!!


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Whether or not you re-press is a matter of opinion actually. I press only once and the JPSS looks beautiful and holds up to washing outside of the usuallwashing instructions. I have shirts that were washed more than 10 times now right-side-out with warm water, detergent rubbed vigorously into the transferred area, washed with towels and jeans, and then dried on HOT for 60 minutes, and they still look perfect. 

My theory is, "Leave well-enough alone..."  

Melissa


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## Ascribe (Nov 14, 2007)

It is said that "if it were not for the last minute, many things would not get done". 

I'm new to the biz and have learned much from this wonderful Forum since November 2007. In December I bought a Hotronix Draw press and a R1800 Epson printer. I got JPSS papers and Gildan 100% cotton shirts.

I watched the videos by BadaLou and others on U-Tube. Still, I was apprehensive about actually doing heat transfers.

About 2 months ago I promised to provide 6 shirts to the local Audubon Club for their annual banquet and fundraiser on March 8, 2008. On March 5th, I installed the R1800, and did a few practice prints and - darn it - I still wasn't able to get my old version of PhotoShop to build the images I wanted - operator ignorance! Oh well, l had a couple of days - I'd figure out something. I'm using the pigment ink that came with the printer.

On the morning of March 8th I still hadn't figured out how to use PhotoShop, but it was THE DAY. Couldn't delay any longer - I had to open the box containing the heat press.

The press is so heavy I couldn't take it out of the box, so I cut off the box's top and sides, and read the instructions. The last 2 pages were missing - but I didn't need them to operate the press. I checked my electrical panel and found all my circuits are at least 20 amps, but I couldn't move the 
press to an outlet, so I got a seriously heavy duty extension cord and plugged it in. I updated the date and time, and after reading the JPSS instructions, created a program for 375F and 26 seconds. I put a shirt on the lower platen and adjusted the pressure knob to "6" which I assumed would be "firm" pressure. 

Refusing to give up on PhotoShop (I've been dithering with it since January), I spent a couple of hours twiddling and finally managed to create a few images using my paintings. Then I hastily created a logo. 

Next I printed out 7 JPSS transfers and a sheet of 24 copies of the logo. Oops - I had forgotten to mirror image the logo page so I re-printed that. 

I wanted my transfers to be circular, so I made a template out of DuraLar acetate, put that atop a transfer, scribed around it, then trimmed with scissors. Similarly I cut the logo page into circles. 

I turned on the press (it is on the floor)and put T-Pad-Its on the lower platen at the chest and neckline (for the logo - under the care labels). Then I laid on a shirt. 

I lowered the platen to pre-press for 5 seconds. Using a Tee-Square-It I got the shirt and transfers lined up. Then opened it up, placed the transfers, and put on a Teflon sheet. I closed the press - Uh-Oh! I hadn't included the T-pads when I set the pressure - I hastily unscrewed the pressure knob and locked the press in place. 

In 26 seconds it beeped and I opened the press. It took a few seconds to pull the lower platen out, lift off the Teflon sheet and find somewhere to put it, and then peel off the transfers - semi-Hot peel! Hmmm - not bad, but the image looked "domed" - maybe I should have stretched the shirt. This one wasn't good enough to donate.

I did transfer #2, stretching the shirt before the pre-press. No doming and the transfer and logo came out just fine!

By #4 I was sitting on the floor in front of the press, which allowed me to remove the transfer immediately after opening the press - HOT-peel, and the paper came off like butter!

I finished the transfers at 4:00pm, printed up some "wash instructions" (1st wash = cold wash, hot dry) and pinned them onto the Gildan care label, and took a shower. Then I thought I should wear one of my shirts to the banquet - duh! So I hastily assembled another Photoshop file, causing the program to get stuck. After rebooting and other twiddling I eventally got a JPSS transfer printed at 5:30pm. 

I'd bought some extra white Ts in my size but couldn't find them - so in desperation I used an old pale yellow shirt (95%cotton/5% spandex), and applied the transfer. Eureka - it looked okay so I quickly put it on, covered the printed Ts with a dry cleaners' bag, and dashed to the car.

I got to the banquet a few minutes into the milling around/silent auction bidding phase and received some "Oohs and Aahs" from friends there. They put 3 shirts into the silent auction, and 3 in the raffle prizes.

The silent auction shirts went for an average of $26 each, and I got lots of compliments on the shirt I was wearing.
Today (March 9th) I washed the yellow shirt (warm/hot dry). 

Hopefully the pictures I took are attached for you to see: the first one is the rejected one; the next few are the images I put on the donated shirts; then me wearing the yellow shirt; next stretching it after washing; and then how it looks after stretching.

So, I'm in and the water's fine!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

AWESOME post!

Thanks for all of the great info!
and all of the great pictures!

Do you have a trick to hot peeling.... i cant seem to get the corner started...?

What kind of Gildan shirts did you use and where did you get them??

I will do more JPSS testing as soon as i get my new heat transfer ink....hopefully monday!!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Ascribe said:


> About 2 months ago I promised to provide 6 shirts to the local Audubon Club for their annual banquet and fundraiser on March 8, 2008.
> 
> The silent auction shirts went for an average of $26 each, and I got lots of compliments on the shirt I was wearing.
> 
> I'm in and the water's fine!


Congratulations, Baju, on the great returns at the auction and for your successful "plunge". That was one heck of a read! I'm sure alot of folks are going to go down memory lane at one point or another, I sure did!! 

I've seen one other thread on "doming". Not sure if it was also with JP. I've not had that issue, but am going to follow up, I'm curious what that is. Can you explain anymore about that -- or is it simply the transfer "domed" in the middle, and there's nothing more to add? Thanks.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2007)

ashamutt said:


> AWESOME post!
> 
> Thanks for all of the great info!
> and all of the great pictures!
> ...


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

earl said:


> ashamutt said:
> 
> 
> > hi mrs bacon, if you watch badalou's video on heat transfer ,you will see he pulls the shirt a little at the corner and pushes up under the transfer corner, that pops the transfer corner a little (hopefuly ) and it peels real easy.
> ...


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Who knows, maybe the new ink will make a difference. Lou uses Everlast I think. Mrs. B, let us know if you can tell a diff after, that'd be a neat little experiment. TY!!!


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## Ascribe (Nov 14, 2007)

Mrs Bacon,

I am using Gildan 2000 Heavy Ts that I bought from Shirt Distributor. I chose this style because I want to use white, natural or ash grey, and black Ts with both short and long sleeves and have a wide range of sizes.

How I did the hot peel: After lifting the upper platen and quickly removing the Teflon sheet, I slightly stretched the shirt sideways with the heels of my hands just below the transfer. The bottom edge of the paper separated from the shirt so I could get my thumb under it, then I took hold of the paper and pulled it 
off in one quick motion. 

On the very first transfer I did not peel immediately and I did not do the little pre-peel stretch so the transfer had started to cool and I had to pick at the edge of the paper with a thumbnail to get it started and the peel took a little effort. When I got fast at removing the Teflon sheet and doing the little pre-peel stretch, the paper was still HOT, and the paper came off effortlessly. 

For most of the shirts I had trimmed my transfer paper into a circle so there were no corners. The last transfer (on the yellow shirt) was a rectangle that I trimmed and rounded the corners with deckle-edge scissors. As this shirt had 5% spandex, it stretched so much when I peeled that I was afraid that the image would be affected, but the shirt resumed its shape and the image had full coverage.


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## Ascribe (Nov 14, 2007)

Kelly,

The "doming" actually occurred on the Yellow Headed Blackbird design - the images in my prior post didn't appear in the order I attached them to the message. 

What I'm describing as "doming" is the effect of the transferred image having a noticeable bulge. As my design was a circle, the image area ended up somewhat like a flat frisbee.

It was my first transfer (ever) and I had not stretched the shirt in both directions before pre-pressing and applying the transfer paper. I think the "doming" resulted from having a little too much fabric captured underneath the transfer polymer so when the surrounding fabric is in its relaxed state, it causes the image to "puff out".

Today I turned the shirt inside-out and spritzed the front of the shirt around and behind the image, then put it in a hot dryer. I was hoping this would eliminate the "doming" - but it's still there. The attached picture shows the front of the T when I flatten/smooth out the image. This did not occur on any of the other shirts that I did pre-stretch before applying the transfer.

Actually the "doming" is quite slight, and possibly a customer would not notice, but I wouldn't take the risk. This shirt belongs in my "Lessons Learned Closet".


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Ascribe said:


> It was my first transfer (ever) and I had not stretched the shirt in both directions before pre-pressing and applying the transfer paper.


Thanks for writing, Baju. I looked back, and you are using gildans cotton. Are you using 100 cotton? I'm sure you are using pre-shrunk cotton, right? Assuming you are using gildans 100% preshrunk cotton shirts, I think you are right in the fact that stretching is helping. It helps open the weave and get the moisture out better during a pre-press. Pre-pressing for 5 seconds is about the shortest to pre-press for as well. 

In the very beginning, I used to transfer on a laminate countertop with an iron. Once in a while - I would iron the sleeves of the sweatshirt directly over the countertop without a pillowcase underneath. My counter would be left wet with water from the sleeve. I thought something spilled when I first saw it. I had to realize where the water came from - the sleeve. I was amazed. 

As far as shrinking, even with preshrunk cotton shirts, when they are 100% cotton, some brands and styles will still experience a very slight shrinkage. When the shirt has a tiny shrinkage 'around' the image, it causes a 'puff', or what you may be seeing as a dome.

I tested around a dozen preshrunk 100% cottons, and the range of shrinkage was from zero - to the point of causing slight dents and wrinkles throughtout the image. I found this is eliminated using 50/50s.

It may well be the stretch on the rest of the shirts helped eliminate the moisture better and prevented the doming, while the first one actually did experience a slight 'shrink' while under the press. Who knows, it's a possibility tho. I know it confirms for me the importance of the stretch and pre-press. A good dry shirt is a joy to press on.




> Actually the "doming" is quite slight, and possibly a customer would not notice, but I wouldn't take the risk. This shirt belongs in my "Lessons Learned Closet".


I agree with you, better to just keep it for personal use than to let anyone wonder "is there something going on with this shirt?" - haha. I don't want those kinds of questions, I'd rather have: "I wonder what kind of shirt I can buy from her next? I love this one!"   

Thanks for writing. I want to keep an eye on issues others experience so I can be proactive in trying to avoid them for myself as well, so I appreciate it. Have a nice day!


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Ascribe said:


> Kelly,
> 
> The "doming" actually occurred on the Yellow Headed Blackbird design - the images in my prior post didn't appear in the order I attached them to the message.
> 
> ...


There is no reason to stretch the shirt before prepressing. That is done after you pr4ess to make it softer JPSS that is . It comes back to shape fast. The stretching is just to make sure the ink does not dry the ribs together. stretching prevents this.


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## hhc (May 20, 2008)

Very interesting thread! What would us newbies do without you all!?

I know Chromablast is supposed to have superior staying power as far as heat transfers go - is this in part due to using the Chromablast paper with the inks? 

Does anyone know if JPSS paper would work better with Chromablast inks (when printed from an Epson Stylus Pro 4880 inkjet printer?) How about Sawgrass' subli-trans dye sub inks?

Thanks for all the help!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

badalou said:


> There is no reason to stretch the shirt before prepressing. That is done after you pr4ess to make it softer JPSS that is . It comes back to shape fast. The stretching is just to make sure the ink does not dry the ribs together. stretching prevents this.


 
Didn't see this. Thank you, Lou. For me, I stretch before pressing to open the weave prior to laying the polymer coating over top of the fabric. I find it reduces the amount of stretching the shirt does after the shirt is pressed, and the image reacts better bc it was stretched open prior to being sealed with the polymer coating. 

Less the shirt has to "give" after. That's just what I see when I do it this way. Like when you put jeans on from the dryer. Give them a good stretch right away, and they're comfy all day and don't stretch as much after the first one. I give the shirt that first stretch prior to pressing, so it's out of the way by the time the polymer hits the front of the shirt. It's worked well, so I don't want to change anything at this point, but thanks.... Kelly


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> Didn't see this. Thank you, Lou. But I stretch before pressing to open the weave prior to laying the polymer coating over top of the fabric. I find it reduces the amount of stretching the shirt does after the shirt is pressed, and the image reacts better bc it was stretched open prior to being sealed with the polymer coating.
> 
> Less the shirt has to "give" after. That's just what I see when I do it this way. Like when you put jeans on from the dryer. Give them a good stretch right away, and they're comfy all day and don't stretch as much after the first one. I give the shirt that first stretch prior to pressing, so it's out of the way by the time the polymer hits the front of the shirt. It's worked well, so I don't want to change anything at this point, but thanks.... Kelly


Pre-stretching also exposes the knits between the ribs that allows the polymer to penetrate those areas which minimizes vertical cracking.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> Pre-stretching also exposes the knits between the ribs that allows the polymer to penetrate those areas which minimizes vertical cracking.


 
I'm with you on this, Luis. We're on the same wavelength. Glad to know I'm not alone in this thinking.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

I all so Pre-stretch with 100 cotton and Bamboo I have had problems with it puffing when doing circle type pics.


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## LittleDogy (Jan 15, 2008)

mrdavid said:


> I all so Pre-stretch with 100 cotton and Bamboo I have had problems with it puffing when doing circle type pics.


I've seen so many people recommend stretching for different situations but I have never done it because I'm scared to.

In some threads people use descriptions like "stretch the hell out of it" etc.

Well, I'm not saying I'm all buffed and all......but I am a guy and I tend to over do things all the time. And I don't want the shirt to have my paw marks on it from over stretching. 

How do I know if I've stretched it enough?

Just before it rips?...lol : )


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh, gosh, Dog, I'd say not, lol. I give just a gentle stretch. On a scale of 1 to 10, a 1 or 2 for me. Maybe Luis and David can answer you better, being men. I know my version of something is a much lighter touch than my husband's. Come to think of it, I think seeing him do the pre-stetch made me say ouch... haha.


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## LittleDogy (Jan 15, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Oh, gosh, Dog, I'd say not, lol. I give just a gentle stretch. On a scale of 1 to 10, a 1 or 2 for me. Maybe Luis and David can answer you better, being men. I know my version of something is a much lighter touch than my husband's. Come to think of it, I think seeing him do the pre-stetch made me say ouch... haha.


Kelly, that helps a lot! Thank you....ok I got to go to the gym now.....joking : )


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

When stretching I go by the feel little is all you need soon as you see it stretching then you got it too.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Okay, here is how stretch the shirt:

1) I lower the upper platten but not locked on the shirt so that the weight will keep the shirt from returning to its original form when stretched but loose enough so that the shirt will stretch.

2) I stretch the shirt starting at the end away from me that is next the area under the upper platten and work my down to the area close to me. I stretch as much as I can enough almost to the point that it will not stretch anymore.

3) I lock the upper platten for 2 to 3 seconds to purge the moisture and at the same time keeps the shirt from springing back to the original form.

You might think that is too harsh. Even stretching that hard sometimes is not hard enough because small amount of vertical cracking is showing.

I stretch mostly shirts that have course knit like 100% cotton and fleece. I seldom stretch 50/50 unless the knit is course. I use Fruit of the Loom and Jerzees for 50/50. Both have smooth surface and has high density knit. Unlike 100% cotton they don't pill after several washes.

I just got an ad email that says Fruit of the Loom Lofteez 100% cotton has high density knit also. I have not tried it. I use Hanes Beefy T 100% cotton which I stretch. The customer likes Beefy T because it is thick, heavy and loose fitting.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> I seldom stretch 50/50 unless the knit is course. I use Fruit of the Loom and Jerzees for 50/50.


Hi Luis,

Which style number of Jerzees are you using? Thanks, Kelly


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> Hi Luis,
> 
> Which style number of Jerzees are you using? Thanks, Kelly


H Kelly,

It is Z Blend style 29M.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

mrdavid said:


> I all so Pre-stretch with 100 cotton and Bamboo I have had problems with it puffing when doing circle type pics.


 
David, do you mean you had puffing like Ascribe did with her circle? Thanks.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

Yes when ever I do circle I pull on the shirt untel I press been. Trying to find some thing alse to do but no luck I think its the shirts that I use


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## wegottees (Aug 18, 2007)

so im curious with all the testing done, on jpss, cold peel hot peel what is the conculsion

what should i do?

hot peel or cold peel?

also what is the correct way to wash jpss the first time?


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## jumpman21 (May 17, 2008)

Actually.....I did the same thing with an Epson C88 and JPSS from Creative transfers and i had the same result. I've done 5 washes and i'm very impressed I also did the hot peel and it pretty much looked like it soaked right onto the shirt....I thought it was pretty cool.....The color was nice except, it felt a little rough. After a few washes.....I liked the print myself. Although....I received a set of jetflex from Imprintables and the paper itself feels heavier than the JPSS i tried earlier......Will give results!!!


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## wegottees (Aug 18, 2007)

how did you wash it the first time, and times after that???


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## jumpman21 (May 17, 2008)

Honestly......The wife threw it in a regular wash with a little clorox,detergent and downy fabric softner. I can honestly say.....I'm impressed. I personally will use JPSS (exclusively). Although i would'nt mind a sample of Ironman if possible......I'm still searching But, It would have to knock JPSS out of "MY" #1 spot. Laser printer wise.....Closest thing to Laser prints as there is. But, Still not a Laser print.


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## wegottees (Aug 18, 2007)

jpss has got my business now.. sorry ironall!!!!


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## thall17 (Dec 16, 2007)

Best paper for light colored shirts that I have seen!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

jumpman21 said:


> Although....I received a set of jetflex from Imprintables and the paper itself feels heavier than the JPSS i tried earlier......Will give results!!!


JetFlex is Ironall for lights. (Just in case you didn't know... some folks do, and some don't.)


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