# No online sales....Frustrated!!



## Tamara Morrison

I started a tshirt shop online about a month ago. I also have a freelance design site. The freelance aspect of my business has turned out to be the EASY part. I am getting clients without a lot of trouble, mostly through word of mouth. I also get requests for custom shirts, and everyone loves them. what i am NOT getting is a single sale from the online store. I don't understand why. Its probably in the marketing, but what would be an effective way to market my site? Facebook doesnt work. No one cares when I post an update, NO ONE even looks. Im not sure how else to get the word out about specifically the shirt site, you arent supposed to send email blasts to people who haven't "opted in" but how are they supposed to opt in if they dont know you exist! I have even tried posting a few shirts on related forums, and no one wants any. also tried eBay, absolutly no takers and not even more than 11 views. I really dont get it. My designs arent sloppy or bad and people are always saying they love them. It must be in the marketing. I wouldnt buy from me either, I wouldnt know I exist. But how do you tell people you exist without spamming them or just posting another ad they wont read and dont care about?? So frustrated!! Any advice would be much appriciated  site is: www.youreaditcustomshirts.com/Store.html if anyone wants to look!


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## janem

Hi,

Took a look clicked on the shop sign and nothing happened? Am i missing something? Or was it just me.


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## PureDeviance

I really like the design of the website. Looking into Search Engine Optimization might help you. I Here is a site with some good tips on it: Search Engine Optimization (SEO) - Webmaster Tools Help . This might help draw more traffic to your site.


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## printingray

Tamara Morrison said:


> I started a tshirt shop online about a month ago. I also have a freelance design site. The freelance aspect of my business has turned out to be the EASY part. I am getting clients without a lot of trouble, mostly through word of mouth. I also get requests for custom shirts, and everyone loves them. what i am NOT getting is a single sale from the online store. I don't understand why. Its probably in the marketing, but what would be an effective way to market my site? Facebook doesnt work. No one cares when I post an update, NO ONE even looks. Im not sure how else to get the word out about specifically the shirt site, you arent supposed to send email blasts to people who haven't "opted in" but how are they supposed to opt in if they dont know you exist! I have even tried posting a few shirts on related forums, and no one wants any. also tried eBay, absolutly no takers and not even more than 11 views. I really dont get it. My designs arent sloppy or bad and people are always saying they love them. It must be in the marketing. I wouldnt buy from me either, I wouldnt know I exist. But how do you tell people you exist without spamming them or just posting another ad they wont read and dont care about?? So frustrated!! Any advice would be much appriciated  site is: www.youreaditcustomshirts.com/Store.html if anyone wants to look!


First of all I'm not agree with your site design, this looks isn't professional. You must give your site a professional look, due to this more people grab towards you. For gaining traffic, you must have to do SEO,SMM of your site share it on all social media sites, also do local listing of your site, by this people easily find you on internet.


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## veedub3

I took a look at your site and this is why I would not make a purchase. (Just my personal preference when shopping online)

1. I like to know who I am giving my money to. I want to be able to pick up the phone and call the company if I have questions, not submit a form or send an email and wait for someone to get back to me. I want to be able to talk to someone if need be and I only found an email address on your site. With so many fake/scam sites on the web, if the site has no contact information they don't get my money. (You'd be surprised how many people feel the same way I do about this.) I like transparency when shopping online and when a company fails to offer up this information it makes me think they have something hide. JMO.

2. The price points seem a bit high for the t-shirts. Not by much but that too can be a factor on why one would pass on making a purchase. 

3. What am I getting for my money? I could not find any information on the type of shirts used or the printing method used. Are you using standard tees like Gildan or FTL or are they fashion fit tees like American Apparel, etc.? Are they 100% Cotton, 50/50, ringspun, softspun.....what? What printing method is used - laser/inkjet transfers, screen printing - plastisol, water based, discharge, or DTG....what? What am I getting? 

4. What is your return policy? Didn't see that anywhere.

5. What is your shipping policy? How much is shipping? Do you ship out right away or does it take a few days? What shipping method do you use? 

All of these questions are questions that I feel potential customers need to know in order to feel comfortable with making an online purchase. It is possible to have someone pull the trigger without this information but not many and why not just offer it upfront. 

Now you have only been at it a month and you have to know that it takes time. Rarely is it ever an overnight success. You also have to realize that you are competing with a gazillion other t-shirt sites on the web which makes being seen even harder. I agree that marketing plays a big role in being seen but I feel you need to hone in on your target audience and focus your marketing there. With the different types of designs I could not figure out who you were targeting so that would definitely be a great place to start. Social Media is great but mix it up a little. Rent a booth and try selling at local events and festivals. Sponsor some youth organizations or summer league teams. Maybe place some on consignment in local boutiques. If the customer won't come to you, go get them. 

Whatever you do don't give up, keep working at it and you will see that the hard work will pay off. Just know that it is very hard work and you must be consistent at it and that it will take time.

Good Luck with it all!
Katrina


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## GN

The site is professional but it is too busy. Too many words. Too many trees (background and on some banners). Your "custom built" slider looks like an ad for a car. Change that. Your "Tamara Morrison" Slider is way too wordy. Get rid of that. The slider of the girl is good. Keep that and do more like it.. simple and few words. 
As I scroll down.. that BG is killing me bc it has trees and design in it as well. Also get rid of "click on thumbnail to expand" We are in the ... 2012's (?) lol how do you say that.. anyways.. we aren't in the 80's anymore, every one knows if you click on the pic it will expand. Again, too many words. 

Designs are nice.. but I think I was turned off because they aren't pics of shirts. Get some mock ups or take pics of real shirts and put there instead of the squares. You're competeing against people who dont use squares so you have to stand out. I want to buy a shirt - not a box

Get rid of that box at the bottom. Turn that into a link for "custom" orders or something. Again, too busy with all that on there. Ugh! I get to the bottom and you have MORE words "Mugs, totes, etc coming soon" get rid of that. . I want to buy a shirt - not read about your business.

I have a problem with the navigation of the site as well.. I click on a box (design) expecting it to take me to a check out page with info and stuff but instead it just makes the pic bigger. That was a little disppointing but i suppose I could live that - it just seems odd and as a consumer unprofessional. 

I like the custom page wit hthe examples - now your talking! BUT I WOULD get rid fo the sliders when that page is clicked. And, cut down that paragraph to just the pertinent information. People want to buy- not read. I would cut it down to ONE sentence: "Check out the examples below...incorperated into a design." -and nothing else about Fluffy or celebrities or one of a kind shirts etc. Just stick with simple instructions or you will lose them.

"Oh my gosh your quote page!!" .. I just clicked over and that was my reaction.. WAAAAY too wordy!! seriously?! Get rid of that "Payment" chapter and put that in fine print on a FAQ page or "returns" page etc. Get rid of "if you are interested in something other than a T..." and just put a picture off to the side with a mug on it or something. Stop saying "Please".. it comes across as your begging and that dissolves trust -"why are you begging me to buy something? Are you not getting any sales? Should I not be buying from you? " I understand being polite.. but you have too many "please" in there. Just start with "Click..."
Get rid of that last paragrpah asking them to once again PLEASE read the stuff to the right. It's a given that if you cannot work with thier image you email them. 

Instead of posting an email after "NEED HELP? " post a phone number. 

Make that leather logo a home button that links to your store and activate it. 

Most of the stuff you have written that I'm saying you need to delete should be on a FAQ or Customer Service link -neither of which you have. Add an FAQ and Contact page and Return policy.

I clicked on your graphics page and that page is GREAT! it's simple and cohesive and seems to have everything. Mimic that design as far as simplicity. 

Hope that helps.


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## GraphixGuys

Tamara, You said it best... Its the marketing.

How many people are going to your site? You can find this out in your server stats.

This will tell you alot of information. Online sales are about the volume of people coming through your site.
I sell on ebay and for shirts I look at how many people have viewed the item and how many people have bought items. One of my best shirts have had close to 1200 views and I have sold alittle more than 50 shirts. If you look at the number it is about a .04% buying rate. To me this is above average. If you have a .02% buying rate I think a product is sucessfull.

If you have had 10,000 people come to your site and only 100 people have clicked your link to see a perticular shirt design, and no one has bought it, then that design is irrelevant and needs to be trashed.
If you have had 10,000 people come to your site and have had 3000 people click a shirt and no one has bought then there is other variables at play ( Like price, checkout process, site design, etc.)
You need to find out how many people are going to your site and how many people are buying shirts. If you have only had 200 people come to your site and you have not sold a single shirt then that is perfectly normal. 
If nobody is coming to your site then try learning about SEO ( Search Engine Optimization) and Google adwords. These will help drive customers to your site.

Just remember that there are thousands of other sites just like yours (ie. I also have a honey badger shirt). You need to set yourself apart from them and that will help gain an edge against your competitors.


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## MarStephenson761

Hi Tamara,

First of all, love the way the site looks. My only observation is that I couldn't actually see the shirts to purchase in the store, not realizing that I had to scroll down to vies.

And welcome to the world of SEO. (search engine optimization). In order for your online store to be successful you need people to see it. There are 2 ways to make that happen: 1. You send people there with marketing..word of mouth, brochures, shows, flyers, etc. 2. SEO - you make it show up when people search for your products. 

For example, Colman and Company does trade shows every year. We hand out catalogs. People see the web address and go and buy stuff. That's Way #1.

OR they go to Google and type in How to Make Patches and we show up on the first page...they type in Rhinestuds, same thing...type in Hotfix Rhinestones and we don't do as well. Way #2.

You can do loads of research on SEO and how you might drive people to your site that way, you can hire a pro for pretty reasonable prices, or you can just hit the streets with flyers - Way 1 or 2!


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## charles95405

got to agree with Katrina...plus...remember if anyone does a normal search on Yahoo for custom t shirts...they will get 160 million links...so you will not get overnight success...


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## selanac

Love your site. Agree a little with VeeDub, price for regular Tshirts, maybe $12.99 to $15.99.

American Apparel or other you type, $19.99 to $21.99.

Submit your site to Google, Yahoo and Bing. Make several local free listings, and Forums of all types like Hot Rod, cars, pets, etc. 

Add Meta tags if you don't have them and add to it once a month.

I'll help If you want.


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## Hegemone

Price. I don't think the mass market will pay that online when some one else is half your price. If I am going to spend twenty or more on a shirt it needs to be detailed unique art and the shirt needs to look and feel like 20 dollars and most blanks don't. If you want to test your shirt try reddit.com if it's worth while it will be a hit. If its so-so they will eat you alive. They are a gold mine if not brutal and mean. Just remember everyone loves everything because it's easier for people to say I love it then to tell you why they won't buy it.


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## gotshirts2ink

Welcome to the t-shirt world lol


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## dot-tone

I can't really claim to be educated on the best way to sell on line since I don't have a retail site myself. Let me just point out a few things that I would change.

Over all, when you take time to look at what you have, the product is great. Good art, good prints ans style. Nothing new, but great. Why not sell what other company's are doing also? Nothing wrong with that in and of it's self. The only thing tough on that is more marketing. Someone will see those other100 locations 3 times over before finding yours and the sale was made on the 1st thru 3rd find.

1, Price. I'd keep them all at the same price (no mater the difficulty or cost of printing the design). If at all, I would have two price points only. One for difficult $18.99 and one for easy, $16.99 You seem to have many. Look at this site just as an example. 19.95 on all. Funny T-Shirts | SnorgTees

2, Is your site a custom or a retail site? Make it one or the other, but not both. Direct them to a separate page 9in your retail site) for custom printing orders. Direct them to your own freelance site for custom art. 

3, Simplicity. Again, look at the simplicity of the link above. No (buy here) or ADD TO CART) that takes up 1/4rd the display area. Keep it clean and simple. Show the image. If interested, they click on it and get the details. Don't make them search to understand what you are doing.

3, Take out that big window of scrolling photo's that does not show your product. You are making THAT your main thing they see when they first hit your site. Is THAT what you are selling? The first thing I noticed was the chic.


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## selanac

Very good advice Dan.


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## TPrintDesigner

90% of your text is a series of graphics. If you want a search engine to pick up your content then it needs to be readable text. You can do this really easily with CSS code that will overlay your type ontop of the graphic background.


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## Preston

I do not like the site at all. The store is jerky and flakey. No real prints shown, just artwork pated on shirt templates, absolutely no information about who you are - where you are located - how to get ahold of you, nothing.

Clicked on "Add to Cart" and was shocked to see that not only was a white t-shirt with a one color print going to cost 19.95 but then there was a $7.00 shipping and handling charge. Clicked on another "Add to Cart" and nothing happened. That is because it really is not a shopping cart system but keeps adding things to a paypal page that is no longer visible because I am back shopping. Then when I do figure that out I see I would be charged $7.00 shipping and handling per style. Wholly rip-off Batman.

There is also nothing special about your designs. I see those same design concepts all over the web and for way less that what you have listed. Think very hard about your prices and if you want or need to charge that much then you better convince me when I visit your website as to why you and your shirts are worth that much.

I would trash the site and start over with a real shopping cart software, not relabeled buy it now buttons from paypal. 

Sorry for the harsh reality check but you asked.

And one last tip. Get rid of the Harley stuff on your website right now. I mean the minute you read this. Harley will nail you to the wall and take everything you own if they see that stuff. I would get rid of the Mitsu stuff also. And do not even think about VW or Audi.


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## wormil

In addition to all the other things already said, (messy site, high prices, no contact info), your shirt messages are incongruent. Anti-Obama and Mother Earth shirts are going to attract different crowds and the mixed message will turn off both.


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## selanac

American Screen was looking for People to do Political Tshirts.

I'm sure you'll do better over time


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## PBScott

The website is fine, but you need to keep working on it.

The main reason you have not gotten any sales, I am sure is, its only been a month. Although everyone thinks that selling t-shirts online is an inexpensive startup idea, the fact that there are SOOOOO many t-shirt websites out there to compete with make the task of actually selling them a nearly impossible one.

My shirt site has been up for almost four years now, and I still am not selling what I thought I would have sold in the first year, and I still spend upwards of 60 hours a week working on it.


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## royster13

Buy a big Cartel store for 10.00 a month....


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## ryan barker

nothing i can add that hasn't already been said. some pretty harsh criticism in there. it needed to be said, i reckon. 

i like the designs, though i've seen most of them before in one variation or another. my thing is, if you're going to sell designs every third website out there has (what am i missing about the honey badger shirts? why do so many sites have that?) then you should have hundreds of designs. your large 'funny t-shirt' sites have pages upon pages, albeit the designs start to duplicate into different colours of shirts ~ you could knock two or three pages off if you got rid of alternate coloured shirts.  

as far as offering political commentary, i say offer both sides, which is most often the case, or just run with it and be the voice of your side. i guess my advice is, if you go down a particular path, follow it to see where it goes. as mentioned, putting a single shirt out there to put forth your opinion probably won't gain any supporters and is more likely to cost sales. 

and i'll add that the price isn't right for me, either. 

given that the site is otherwise tight, what i really want to see out of a site are designs that i haven't seen already in one form or another, at a price that sits well with me. and if it's a site that has re-hashed designs, at least let them be a lot to choose from. it's too much to have 400 totally original designs, but i'd rather have 20 originals than 9 pages of the same-old-same-old, ya know?


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## selanac

Glad to see you're sticking with it


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## dot-tone

Agreed on the political tees. Include both sides or none at all. Same for religious.


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## ryan barker

both sides, none at all, or go full tilt with it. putting a single one out there only alienates some customers, and, imo, it's a bad risk/reward scenario. fortunately, not everyone is so shallow as not to buy a shirt just b/c the seller has different beliefs. otherwise, people would never buy anything! now, if you say some proceeds will go towards some fund that i don't agree with, then, no, i won't buy the shirt. 

then again, you should never underestimate how shallow people are or can be.


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## sunnydayz

As you all can see, I have edited and moved several posts that included political opinions. Please keep those to yourselves and focus on what the OP is asking, opinions on the DESIGN of his website, not what you feel about politics as discussion about politics is against forum rules.

The reason for this is that everyone has their own views, whether they are liberal or conservative. These type of discussions take the topic completely off topic and can sometimes start a firestorm among members. So lets just stick to the question at hand, the design of the website itself. 

Thanks


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## mizwood

I agree that you need to define your target audience and make sure you're offering t-shirts that they're motivated to purchase. Your website is ok, but I wouldn't buy your shirts simply because I don't like them. I prefer stylish, fitted tees. I am not suggesting that's what you should offer. I am giving an example for knowing what audience to develop t-shirts for ...

You can also look for opportunities to hand out cards advertising your site at various events, and provide product samples/give-a-ways. For example, I provided a foundation shirts for their honoree's goodie bags.


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## filmsimon

hey, i've just had a look at your site. I like it but it seems very slow. i have a fast internet connection and i'm having trouble just scrolling up and down on your site. might be worth looking into. i've had similar problems when i've put an ebay advert up which includes pictures in the ad but the pictures are too big, it took forever to load the page.


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## Trueself

I think your site is cool. I too just started a line and hope to get traffic and sales soon. I will spread the word about your site to my friends. Hope that helps you out.


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## starter

selling tshirts on ebay may be good. 
if you don't have a good marketing ability or lacks advertising budget, an own brand website is not necessary.


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## ryan barker

ebay is likely to be a waste of time with this line considering the price and wide availability of similar designs, imo. too many shirts there, you get lost in the shuffle real quick. having a brand on ebay just hasn't worked out for most people (of course there are exceptions) as it's seemingly just not a good synergy (i feel all corporatey today).

starter, are you saying a website isn't necessary if you don't have good marketing/advertising budget? how else are you going to conduct commerce? through facebook? 

i might try a flea market for a month or so, see what people are buying, get some feedback, talk to folk, check out the competition. sure, it can be a pain and a lot of hard work, but it's fun at the same time, and i promise you you *will* learn something. i would consider it a test market.


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## selanac

I would go to a Farmers Market, Fair or Craft Show before a Flea Market. Many Flea Markets bring in Cheap People. You can't guage your product with people coming in to buy at bottom dollar. Thanks like comparing Retail to a Dollar Store.


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## ryan barker

you could do both, of course. the thing is, you should try to hit as close to your market as possible, and these designs are, imo, more in line with the flea market crowd. besides, fairs and festivals last a weekend, whereas if you got an indoor booth at a flea market you're not setting up and tearing down every weekend, there are no tents to deal with, all that stuff. 

it depends on how you look at it. it's not as if fairs and such are likely to be *that* much more of a boon. maybe. maybe not. i'm looking at establishing at least a modicum of consistency by which to create some kind of base line. paul is right, the flea market shirt can be low quality with a matching price point. then again, it's competition. i know of folk that do very, very well selling their shirts there, from the $6 slogan tee to the $60 custom airbrushed shirt and price points inbetween. too, it helps to set up at the right flea market (and fair, for that matter). the kind that is a flea market by day, drive-in by night, then, nah, i'd skip that. well-trafficked indoor set-ups where it's more of an ongoing retail outlet for us small guys, that's a different story. 

fairs and such are great, and you're bound to be able to ask more towards your top dollar. if your market goes to those things and you don't mind the extra work and cost, go for it. the one guy i know who does fairs all the time says people just aren't buying, sadly. maybe it's his product, not sure as i don't have the time to attend these things anymore. i do know that he's had to adjust his prices down to be able to move more. that's just the way it goes. if you look at the supply and demand aspect, there's of course a high demand, but there's also a very high supply and tons of competition that brings the price down a bit. 

like i said, it's just a market research/market test kind of thing. i'd just be looking to see what sells and who's buying, without as much emphasis on the price i'm selling as i'd naturally ask more on the website anyway. 

just an idea.


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## greyhorsewoman

I clicked on your shopping cart to see what you charge for shipping ... $7.00 for one shirt??? No way. And two shirts was $14.00 (not even a little discount). You can ship one shirt 1st class for under $3.00 anywhere in the states, add a little for the mailer and you shouldn't be be charging more than $3-$4 for the first shirt.

A FAQs page with specs and a return policy are necessary and show professionalism.


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## GN

Did the op change anything? I'm on my phone and can't tell. I often see ppl ask for advice and then not do anything.


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## Preston

GN said:


> Did the op change anything? I'm on my phone and can't tell. I often see ppl ask for advice and then not do anything.



No, still the same. Still over priced for what they are and still 7 bucks shipping per design. Still no real shopping cart.

Me, for the shirts being sold on the site I would be selling them at $15 (some at $10) max with free shipping. And I would still probably have a hard time selling them.


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## GN

Preston said:


> No, still the same. Still over priced for what they are and still 7 bucks shipping per design. Still no real shopping cart.
> 
> Me, for the shirts being sold on the site I would be selling them at $15 (some at $10) max with free shipping. And I would still probably have a hard time selling them.


I think $7 shipping is ok. We are in tge business so we know better.. But my market research showed that tge average consumer would pay this for one shirt. (but not $14 for 2)


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## royster13

But what about all the others that think this shipping charge is insane?....So many folks try to focus on a small niche and them proceed to turn off the other 99% of their potential clients....


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## greyhorsewoman

> I think $7 shipping is ok. We are in the business so we know better.


GN - ??, really? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think there are a few of us that in the business, too.


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## royster13

Never catch me paying 7.00 for shipping.....


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## ryan barker

that's too high for shipping, imo. it reminds me of those ebay sellers that has something for a great price, then wants $20 to ship a two pound package. i could see $4 for shipping a shirt, no problem, but more than that i would question whether or not i really wanted the thing based on just the principle of paying more than what everyone is charging. then again, i've never believed that someone should profit from shipping and handling, so knowing that someone *is* going to profit from it would rather grate on my nerves....


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## xklusivtees

I thought it was ok, could make a few changes which I won't get into as everyone as already mentioned most. I think the most important thing is that you are trying to get help by asking for input just consider what is being said and apply the ones you agree with. Its gonna be hard but the payoff will be WORTH it.


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## spamunch

Preston said:


> No, still the same. Still over priced for what they are and still 7 bucks shipping per design. Still no real shopping cart.
> 
> Me, for the shirts being sold on the site I would be selling them at $15 (some at $10) max with free shipping. And I would still probably have a hard time selling them.


If she sells her shirts at 15 and some at $10 with free shipping, how is she going to make profit?

I'm basing this on a $2 shirt, $3 printing, $2 free shipping. $1 shipping supplies (bags, printer ink receipts) If he sells it for $10 she's only making a $2 profit, if she sells it for $15 she only makes $7 bucks profit. That's not enough. Educate me, there must be something you are trying to say that I don't understand.


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## Preston

spamunch said:


> If she sells her shirts at 15 and some at $10 with free shipping, how is she going to make profit?
> 
> I'm basing this on a $2 shirt, $3 printing, $2 free shipping. $1 shipping supplies (bags, printer ink receipts) If he sells it for $10 she's only making a $2 profit, if she sells it for $15 she only makes $7 bucks profit. That's not enough. Educate me, there must be something you are trying to say that I don't understand.


Well printing cost for a one color on white would be about $0.03 per shirt if she is printing herself and cataloging the screens. Unless she is only printing one at a time, that is. If she is doing DTG then that is another story.

$7.00 per shirt profit on a 100 shirts sold per month is better than $0.00 profit on zero shirts sold per month as she has now. Who comes out ahead?


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## spamunch

Ok, I see what you are saying. The key is Screen printing in house. Which makes the profit margin bigger I was looking at it from outsourcing the Screen printing. These printers charge an arm and leg for small batch printing. ( Less than 50)

The truth if one is making $7/shirt profit*100, then it's not a viable business. It's a lot of work for $700. Coming up with the design, printing, keeping the website fresh, fulfilling orders, trips to post office. Customer service etc.

I'm glad we had this discussion, at 0.03/shirt, I'm going to look into figuring out a way to get my Screen printing done in house. On this forum, a lot of folks discourage designers who want to screen print in-house. I suspect those folks are Screen printers looking out for themselves (Leave it to the professionals, it's too messy etc), but that's the same thing they said about web design. You can't do it yourself, leave it to the pros. I almost bought into that, just that I did not have $500 to pay for bigcartel web design so I found tutorials, read books from the library, used bigcartel support, customized it myself. Took a month, but the site looks good. 

When you say "cataloging the screens". What do you mean? and do you/anyone know a site where I can find Screen printing 101. I'm going to look on this site too.

Cheers!


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## Preston

spamunch said:


> I'm glad we had this discussion, at 0.03/shirt, I'm going to look into figuring out a way to get my Screen printing done in house. On this forum, a lot of folks discourage designers who want to screen print in-house. I suspect those folks are Screen printers looking out for themselves (Leave it to the professionals, it's too messy etc), but that's the same thing they said about web design.
> 
> Cheers!


I discourage designers trying to create a clothing line all the time. But I do so because 99.99% of all clothing line wannabes fail with their line and I try to bring the harsh reality of that into the open.

I would never discourage one from wanting to learn how to print their own shirts. At least this way they may have something to fall back on if and when the line fails.

Cataloging screens means that you make the screen, print some shirts, clean the ink out and then file the screen away instead of reclaiming it. Then the next time you need to print the design you just put the screen back on the press and ink up.

The first thing I would suggest for a learning curve is go to youtube and watch every video you can find on how to screen print. Skip the ones using Yudo's or just free holding the screens. Not that you cannot print that way or with a Yudo but it is not the professional way and thus just take too long to produce anything.


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## selanac

I would charge $7.00. $5 or $6 for priority & $1.00 for insurance.


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## royster13

I know how to print and but have no interest in printing my own tees.....I do not like getting my hands dirty, except to count money....

Most of my designs are 1 colour and I can order transfers for about 50.00 per design....That is based on ganging 3 different designs on a sheet and ordering 100 sheets.....Even if I have order a design by itself, I an only into it for about 75.00.....But if you look at F&M Expressions 15 cent deal, you can get 100 transfer for under 47.00...So their prices at the moment are even less than what I typically pay...

I sell my shirts at retail for a minimum of 12.50....I pay less than 2.50 for a blank shirt so that leaves me at least 10.00 to work with....More if they want white, ash or natural....If I sell just 4 or 5 of a new design, the rest of the transfers are paid for...

While I not yet selling many shirts, I am making money and enjoying what I am doing.....It is so nice to wake up in the morning and see those "Payment Received From ..." emails in my inbox.....


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## ryan barker

'n this forum, a lot of folks discourage designers who want to screen print in-house. I suspect those folks are Screen printers looking out for themselves (Leave it to the professionals, it's too messy etc), but that's the same thing they said about web design' ~ i would never discourage someone from doing it themselves unless there are good reasons not to, and often a brand owner just isn't a screen printer as much as they are a designer. i hate to encourage someone to buy a lot of equipment for their own brand just in case it fails, then they're stuck with a bunch of stuff they have to unload at a loss. 

so, i don't think anyone discourages doing it yourself as a sleazy method to protect their own brand or anything slightly nefarious as all that, rather sometimes it's discouraged because there are alternate methods available that's easier on the pocketbook, at least upfront. to me, you can always get into the printing yourself later on if sales justify the expense or you have an inclination to work-for-hire.


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## wormil

spamunch said:


> ...a lot of folks discourage designers who want to screen print in-house. I suspect those folks are Screen printers looking out for themselves


I suspect you are wrong. I've given many people that advice and haven't screenprinted myself in years. I give it and others give it because in the majority of situations, it's very good advice. But hey, you might be the exception.




spamunch said:


> ...but that's the same thing they said about web design.


And it's equally true about web design. Most of the people selling web design are not designers, they are self taught and it shows. Just like many "graphic artists" are self taught and it shows. Working in printing you see A LOT of terrible design come off the press. Does that mean *you* can't learn and do it well, no.


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## spamunch

@wormil, @ryan barker, @royster13 You folks made reasonable points. I agree with what you said. It's just that I'm sensitive to people who say things "can't be done". I tend to ask why can't it be done?

I'm the type that wants everything in-house for quality control purposes. If I ever screen print in house, I'll probably get someone who is knowledgeable about screen printing pay them $15/hr-$20/hr and have them screen print everything in house. He/she should be able to screen print at least 100 shirts/hour. If I sell those shirts at $22. The business is making $2200/hr revenue. Of course this is a simplistic analysis, since I don't know much about screen printing.

But the advantage is less lead times, save money, screen print only what sells, faster execution of ideas+ screen print for other designers/churches if there's time. But as I previously stated you all made valid points. There's no reason to do everything alone and lose sight of the main goal. "Running a successful clothing business"


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## ryan barker

i like to be able to do everything myself, too, within reason. that's why if i had a screen printer work for me, i'd train him the way i want him to do it and probably pay him about ten bucks an hour. your general factory worker will be required to learn more operations and maintain high quality standards for about the same, and let me tell ya, i work my butt off at my day job. don't get me wrong, some guys i would pay more for if they brought something advanced to the table, but the bulk of what a basic screen printer does, like me, is non-skilled menial tasks like making screens, basic inking of shirts, and clean up. there's a learning curve, and we still make plenty of mistakes, but the basic process isn't rocket surgery by any stretch. 

we do basic work-for-hire, though, so for us we have a set-up. if you have a brand, the time and expense of start-up can be prohibitive for some people. well, actually for most people, lol. 

yeah, you're probably not going to do 100 shirts an hour unless you're printing for someone else, and at that volume you may not even be charging ten bucks a shirt let alone profiting that much. oh, there's money to be made doing it, but it's definitely a volume business.


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## selanac

RB not every one has the same situation as us. They work full time at this.

Ur right about Manual labor though.

Had a few guys asking for $15 per hour. He didn't clean up either.


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## ryan barker

sure, every shop is going to be different, i'm just trying to generalize only to lay a basic foundation. 

those guys that wanted that much money, what did they bring to the table? it would be nice not to have to train someone from scratch, but, meh, then again they may bring their own baggage and methods you don't agree with, too. that's why some manufacturers shy away from hiring ex-union people, lol. if i paid a guy that much, he better have some advanced knowledge. i should have thrown in the caveat that that's what i would pay based on local cost of living; new jersey may have a higher cost, so that $15 may be comparable to $10 here in dayton (you're doing okay to start unskilled labour here at ten bucks, and they'll pile a lot of work on you for that money!).


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## selanac

When I paid the guy $15 I was new at actually screen printing. We had a DTG, and Embroidery Machine and outsourced the screen printing, mostly large orders. 

However, the guy could only screen print. He was good at it and could do about 1,000 per day on a manual. If he'd slow down, and clean up the screens he'd be here today, and not driving 40 miles to work instead. 

He should me too things that I need to know. Setting up the press, and the actually screen printing/off sets. 

Once I knew that, I was slamming them out myself. I really preferred having him so I could go out and sell. I had a bunch of jobs and meetings lined up, and had to go back to the shop and screen print.

The final straw was when he lied and told me he could do water base and he couldn't. Then he covered it up. That's not a way to start a relationship your boss. He also left for a few hours leaving the door wide open. 

Any how, I also agree with training the guy to screen print the way you do. Though we need to loosen up, they need to learn to follow procedures, lol.


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## insky

the project definitely lacks concept.
it's just a bunch of tee's with no common concept.
you won't sell anything until you've found a concept, and a style.
your designs and website looks like first year of graphic design school, 
i.e. too busy, too much, too many colors and shapes, most of the stuff is
vector design you picked here and there.
you definitely need to think of a concept before doing anything, really.
good luck!


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## ryan barker

paul, our circumstances were somewhat similar. one of our customers had been a screen printer for the business we bought all our stuff from (it was a bank auction), so he went with us, told us what was the best equipment to get, and basically trained us. despite us not being happy with a lot of things that he did, we wanted him to be our guy. when we didn't have the orders to pay for his keep (which we still don't, but that's not our main business so we've taken it slow for now) for a variety of reasons, he got uppity over a trivial matter and demanded all this money for things he'd done that he had said he was doing for free as a friend. 

good riddance. he was a bum with a kid on the way that wouldn't go get a real job, smoked pot in the basement, went through supplies like he was still working for a million dollar company (that went bankrupt! figure that one out, genius!), his quality was only so-so, he was a slob, left half-drunken cans of pop he got from our convenience store all over (naturally he'd drink the most expensive stuff we have), and we did support him as best we could while trying to pay off the property once and for all. 

it's funny, but it seems to me that in the short time we've done this, there are two kinds of screen printers, those that are the owners and responsible people, and those that work for you and can be, ah, hm, what's the word i'm looking for? wastes of humanity? no, that's too strong... i'll just say that quite a few that i've met wouldn't exactly pass the drug test on the first try.  

he didn't lie, per se, he just had a high opinion of his abilities that i found wasn't in line with what *I* deem quality output. he worked hard when he had stuff to do, but in general, when it came to life, he was a bum and needed to leave. 

i guess the lesson here is when you hire someone, their ability to perform the job is only half of the deal. doesn't matter if someone can do the job if they're killing you in other areas, eh?


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## selanac

Agree, that sounds pretty close to our situation. 

There's two similar post about no sales, and now I forgot which one this is. Guess I'll have to go back to the first page to review it. 

Something else that helps sales is to get out, shake hands and kiss babies. When people ask me how it's going I tell them about the business I'm doing. Usually turns around to a sale or a referral.


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## wormil

ryan barker said:


> ... there are two kinds of screen printers, those that are the owners and responsible people, and those that work for you and can be, ah, hm, what's the word i'm looking for? wastes of humanity? no, that's too strong... i'll just say that quite a few that i've met wouldn't exactly pass the drug test on the first try.


And that's all you'll attract at $10/hr., the desperate or irresponsible.


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## jfish

No need to put insurance on a t-shirt for shipping. 

Get USPS Priority envelopes and small flat rate boxes, oh did I mention they are free? 

So that way you can virtually have ZERO shipping materials costs and ship with one of the best services 2-3 day shipping in most cases for under $5! 

We all start somewhere I think some of the people commenting were being a little bit harsh. There's a difference between critiquing and being an arsehole. So get over yourself and try to contribute to others success and stop trying to discourage others from their own hopes and ambitions. 

Luckily I went to school for art & design and did over 5 years of critiques and I can tell you which people are simply insecure and which are genuinely trying to provide constructive criticism. 

I think you have a start to what you need, continue pushing your design time and keep researching work you like and take notes on design elements of success and failure with others work. This will help you strengthen your work when you sit down and review yourself and when you start developing new designs and work. 

$7 is simply too high for shipping never peak $5 on a single item and ALWAYS offer combined shipping and CLEARLY post this on your checkout and under each sale item if possible. State you will refund shipping rates if your site isn't setup to discount multiple items shipping costs, This is VERY important don't be lazy. 

Get the USPS Flat rate mailer materials simply go to your local post office and get them there and even schedule a free pickup from your house or place of business and bam done!


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## Tamara Morrison

Id just like to thank everyone for all the comments....some very important things that needed improvment were pointed out. I addressed a few of those things, adding more info about myself and what im doing, making more text and less images, taking out some of the super long text blurbs. I also took down the prices some and cut the shipping as much as i could at this point, and fixed the doubling of the shipping when you buy more than one item. 

As for some comments being harsh, okay, it is what it is there. Some people are going to like it, some are not. Thats how it works with anything. Every celebrity, product, music artist, etc, is going to have people that like it and people that dont. There is no one thing that EVERYONE loves and fully agrees with. There isnt really a site review on here that NO ONE has found something they would change. And one persons ideal changes might equal what looks awful in anothers eyes. 

I agree that I need to find a focus rather than just throw up some random shirts, and I will. Its going to take a bit to figure out where im going with it and what i want it to do. But thanks everyone for all the comments, it did help point out some mistakes and things I knew were wrong all along but needed someone else to tell me


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## selanac

First of all we can charge what ever we want to charge for Shipping. If the person doesn't like it, they can go somewhere else. 

2nd, if I want to add insurance that's up to me, not you. If you think your work is Just a T-shirt then charge whatever you want, since you're in your own world anyways. 

Remember, No man is an Island.


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## jfish

Glad to see you took the pertinent information and made the changes. Just remember to order or pickup your USPS shipping supplies as its an awesome system and trust me they are loosing money on a lot of the flat rate shipping they do. I hope that we can help support our postal service as much as possible but honestly free materials doesn't get much better then that. 

For 1-2 shirts you can get by with the small flat rate box or s bubble mailer envelope. This keeps total shipping costs under $5 actually I believe its like $4.71 approx. 

Anyways yeah everyone will not agree on design + site etc that's what makes art+Design so fun to look at especially when people try new things instead of emulating whats already been done. Like when people print on the collars of shirts like those rooted designs coming from the neckline, or faces on the side of hoodys, designs bleeding off the bottom of shirts, inside out printing, multimedia designs like Foils, Printing, Threads/embroidery, discharge, metallics, glow in the dark etc. 

I remember seeing a shirt on the threadless site it said something like "Im not afraid of the dark" or something then in glow in the dark ink it would glow "HELP ME!" or something of that nature. I thought that was pretty funny. 

Anyways best of luck and keep at it!


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## selanac

I'll consider the source.


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## jfish

selanac said:


> First of all we can charge what ever we want to charge for Shipping. If the person doesn't like it, they can go somewhere else.
> 
> 2nd, if I want to add insurance that's up to me, not you. If you think your work is Just a T-shirt then charge whatever you want, since you're in your own world anyways.
> 
> Remember, No man is an Island.


Yeah you can charge whatever you want by all means. But selling just 1 shirt shipping shouldn't exceed $5, unless its a hoodie or larger item etc but shirts fold/roll up quite small. 

Why do you put insurance on your shirts shipping? I understand if the package is lost or damaged but in all the shipping I have done I have never had any damage or lost packages. If A shirt can handle going through the wash It can handle being shipped without damage in most cases. 

And like many stated they will go elsewhere for high shipping costs, I personally will pay a little extra for shipping if the work is that good but like items on ebay etc that are sold via many sellers I always look for the best shipping rates also which sellers are closest. 

I never told you how to ship your items but I stated my opinion on selling/shipping 1-2 T-Shirts and how they don't need insurance. If anything I just ship them in a bubble mailer if I'm worried about potential damage etc. This is what I have done and it has worked out well without any issues at all so do what works for you...


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## geniusboundkids

wormil said:


> In addition to all the other things already said, (messy site, high prices, no contact info), your shirt messages are incongruent. Anti-Obama and Mother Earth shirts are going to attract different crowds and the mixed message will turn off both.


I agree with this info because I was interested enough to stroll around altho i was hit with the huge antiobama.unless you are ranting your political position, it should be separate from your biz (just my 2cents). The best way is to attract both sides unless the previously stated is basis for your business.

I am doing footwork by going into the places that my customers are, for me thats schools and daycares. I am following up with phone calls and emails. it is very hard. i am looking to hold a fun event later in the year -but i am researching how right now.i started research with street teams and marketing that way. it surely means putting on the big girl drawers.


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## greyhorsewoman

FYI, for USPS shipping options, check out the new REGIONAL Priority boxes. You can only get them online. Lately, nearly every multiple shirt prder I've done, regional priority has been the best option.


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## splathead

jfish said:


> Why do you put insurance on your shirts shipping? I understand if the package is lost or damaged but in all the shipping I have done I have never had any damage or lost packages. If A shirt can handle going through the wash It can handle being shipped without damage in most cases.


I think the main reason to purchase insurance is for lost packages, not damaged ones.

We don't buy insurance-we only buy delivery confirmation for 19 cents a package. The Post Offices loses on average about 1 out of every 250-300 packages we ship. It's much, much, cheaper for me to simply replace the tee when that happens rather than waste all that money on insurance.


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## royster13

splathead said:


> I think the main reason to purchase insurance is for lost packages, not damaged ones.
> 
> We don't buy insurance-we only buy delivery confirmation for 19 cents a package. The Post Offices loses on average about 1 out of every 250-300 packages we ship. It's much, much, cheaper for me to simply replace the tee when that happens rather than waste all that money on insurance.


I also never buy insurance......It has been years since either Canada Post or USPS has lost one of my package.....I tell my clients their shipments are insured and charge them for it, but if I have a claim I pay it as I am "self insured"....


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## ryan barker

'And that's all you'll attract at $10/hr., the desperate or irresponsible.' i could have paid him $20/hr. if i was foolish enough to do so, and he would still be a bum. i would pay ten bucks an hour because that's what the job is worth paying someone to do. their option is to start in a factory at $9... if they can find even that. and let's face it, it's not as if basic screen printing is a high-demand position for workers, it's pretty much requires entry level kind of work to perform. if they brought something else to the table, then they're worth more.

to be perfectly honest, someone that wants to work for a screen printer and not have their own shop instead, barring the errant guy that went to school and such, just attracts a particular personality type, imo. the owners, now, that's a completely different story. we're a particular breed, just like workers are a particular breed. of course, too, it helps if you're able to sit there and monitor them while they work, not in another room where they have free reign. 

the funny thing is he had worked for a huge printer, but he had to quit because, he claims, 'those guys just partied too much during the day.'


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## Tee Wiz

Hi there
A month or so isn't nearly enough time to gauge how well your site is going. I would be that it is still hardly ranking in the search engines at all! I'm not going to comment on the design because as you can see, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some like it, others don't. The important thing to remember is to try and look at your site from a customer's perspective. In fact a good technique is to get someone else to go through the site with no input from you and consider their comment.
Good luck!


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## Issie Ishiyama

veedub3 said:


> I took a look at your site and this is why I would not make a purchase. (Just my personal preference when shopping online)
> 
> 1. I like to know who I am giving my money to. I want to be able to pick up the phone and call the company if I have questions, not submit a form or send an email and wait for someone to get back to me. I want to be able to talk to someone if need be and I only found an email address on your site. With so many fake/scam sites on the web, if the site has no contact information they don't get my money. (You'd be surprised how many people feel the same way I do about this.) I like transparency when shopping online and when a company fails to offer up this information it makes me think they have something hide. JMO.
> 
> 2. The price points seem a bit high for the t-shirts. Not by much but that too can be a factor on why one would pass on making a purchase.
> 
> 3. What am I getting for my money? I could not find any information on the type of shirts used or the printing method used. Are you using standard tees like Gildan or FTL or are they fashion fit tees like American Apparel, etc.? Are they 100% Cotton, 50/50, ringspun, softspun.....what? What printing method is used - laser/inkjet transfers, screen printing - plastisol, water based, discharge, or DTG....what? What am I getting?
> 
> 4. What is your return policy? Didn't see that anywhere.
> 
> 5. What is your shipping policy? How much is shipping? Do you ship out right away or does it take a few days? What shipping method do you use?
> 
> All of these questions are questions that I feel potential customers need to know in order to feel comfortable with making an online purchase. It is possible to have someone pull the trigger without this information but not many and why not just offer it upfront.
> 
> Now you have only been at it a month and you have to know that it takes time. Rarely is it ever an overnight success. You also have to realize that you are competing with a gazillion other t-shirt sites on the web which makes being seen even harder. I agree that marketing plays a big role in being seen but I feel you need to hone in on your target audience and focus your marketing there. With the different types of designs I could not figure out who you were targeting so that would definitely be a great place to start. Social Media is great but mix it up a little. Rent a booth and try selling at local events and festivals. Sponsor some youth organizations or summer league teams. Maybe place some on consignment in local boutiques. If the customer won't come to you, go get them.
> 
> Whatever you do don't give up, keep working at it and you will see that the hard work will pay off. Just know that it is very hard work and you must be consistent at it and that it will take time.
> 
> Good Luck with it all!
> Katrina


I think this was outstanding advice!!!!! I even copy this do I can print this out! Great stuff!


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## Issie Ishiyama

selanac said:


> Love your site.
> 
> Submit your site to Google, Yahoo and Bing. Make several local free listings, and Forums of all types like Hot Rod, cars, pets, etc.
> 
> Add Meta tags if you don't have them and add to it once a month.
> 
> I'll help If you want.


Can you explain a little more about seo and meta tags? Also how do I submit my site to google, yahoo etc? Thanks


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## cookie99

The style of your site is wonderful. 
Byt yes, as the guys upon said, your site needs some SEOs


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## safetyimprints

You need to be found on the web in order to make sales.. Sign up with google webmaster tools, google analyitcs, google places and google merchant... work on your organic rankings and backlinks.. SEO work will take a while before you feel the effects..


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## jfish

USPS regional is a good system now I just got some of the boxes for it as there's different zones and such. 

Has anyone ever filed a claim due to lost or damaged package/item? I insure valuables (Not anything worth under $100 usually as ive never had a package flat out lost) but I always wonder if they just make the whole claim process a huge pain in the *** like blame it on bad packaging, or not being the value you stated etc. So I am curious about others experiences in actually doing the process and if it ended good or bad and what you learned from it. Also what you do different now because of it. 

Makes me wonder about your advice if its just best to cover the cost of a shirt or a couple shirts and print + resend yourself then go through the process of a claim etc (which I am sure will be more in time and resources documenting/phone calls/emails/proof etc then the actual cost to just make another one?) 

There are SEO specialists out there I have a guy who does it professionally and its an ongoing process if you want the best results be he starts around $500 and goes up past $2500+ But his results are proven. I personally haven't done this yet as I cant justify the costs as I don't have enough info/product on the web yet to do so but if anyone wants his info just message me and ill give you his phone and email etc for a quote he is very professional and actually owned a very large print company up until 2005 which he sold it and is not retired from print and only does SEO work for clients/freelance/contract. 

You can pay for advertising on google too but beware the money can go very fast pending on your cost per click/impression and what you set your "Daily" limits at.. I went through $200 in about 1.5-2 months. With only around a $5 daily limit


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## foot print

I really like your site...that was my first thought.. Then I saw a ton of shirt designs on first page..but I still really like your site and it's smart phone friendly..did you design your own site..? Don't let the harsh critiques dis-courage you we all have opinions and we will not always like what people say. I would worry if nobody had an opinion 


Sent from my iPhone using TShirtForums app


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## selanac

You know what they say about opinions? It's like a politician, and we have too many. Lol.


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## mrfunone

selanac said:


> I would go to a Farmers Market, Fair or Craft Show before a Flea Market. Many Flea Markets bring in Cheap People. You can't guage your product with people coming in to buy at bottom dollar. Thanks like comparing Retail to a Dollar Store.


Like Englishtown?
How would one go about finding fairs and shows to sell product at? Is there a magazine or a website that tells you?
I've heard of the Crafts Report. But, I think thats for handmade stuff.
I'm in NJ too.

Crafts people tell me that NJ is the best place for selling stuff!


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## mrfunone

selanac said:


> Glad to see you're sticking with it


Political stuff is tricky.
You risk alienating someone if you lean too much one way. Is it best to do both sides, or more?
It does seem like the way to do it if you're gonna do it.
How about just attacking stupid?
Regardless of which political party it comes from.
Stupid is stupid no matter from whence it came!


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## ryan barker

just my opinion, but if you do political shirts, do both sides, go crazy with one, or just don't mess with it. funny sites get away with it b/c they have hundreds of designs that represent both sides, but if you're just throwing a single design in to make a statement, that's foolish, imo, b/c as mentioned that risks alienating a lot of folk then that's not wise *unless that's your niche*. if you want to be the voice of liberalism, communism, republicanism, or whateverism, fine, but be that voice. 

after having done research on american apparel, i really don't want to give that man my money b/c we're just so far apart in our beliefs and he'd spend my money actively on causes i just can't get behind. they're having a lot of issues at AA, so it may not matter any way, lol, especially if ol' george soros decides to quit pumping cash into the place or, more likely, AA moves its manufacturing to a different country, in which case i expect to see a decline in price, hopefully not quality.


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## mrfunone

Politics is comedy gold!
Great for funny shirts.
Good to make up shirts to catch a Summertime trend or short fad.
During the Gulf War in 1990, I told my friends that I wanted to make up a shirt that said: Swarzkopf for President. They all thought it was great, but, I wasn't in the T business at the time.
But, a current political thing could make an opportunity if you catch it just right.


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## ryan barker

right, but if that's the thing that you do. stuff on funny sites actually is supposed to change, so that transient design shouldn't haunt you. that flavour of the month stuff i think does well on ebay, no? i mean, tees on feebay are hardly haute couture, so it's prime territory for current events.


----------



## chessclub

Tamara Morrison said:


> Facebook doesnt work. No one cares when I post an update, NO ONE even looks.
> 
> what you can do, this has worked for me. if you can spare a few extra shirts. print them and give them to 3-5 of your mates who have the most facebook friends. then get them to wear them out and about. taking photos of them and tagging your facebook page. get them to post statuses about and quote 'Just bought some new clothes at 'brand name'.' get your name out there and people will want to wear similar clothes.
> Look at snapback caps. a year ago 1 in 100 teens wore them now 1 in 3 would own one.
> 
> Speaking of advertising. can yous get around my design in this contest. I went for a simple abstract design so it doesn't draw too much attention from the wearer.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## mrfunone

I was thinking of a cool way to market shirts, but, it may be difficult to pull off.
I like to go to conventions in my area (NJ). There are a lot of them around here. The kind where celebrities of all kinds show up and sign autographs. I was thinking of setting up as a vendor, and then try to get some celebs over to the booth to check out my wares and offer them up some freebies and get a pic of them wearing my stuff.
I just met Adam West (Batman) a few days ago, and Butch Patrick (Eddie Munster) last month. I don't know if it would work, but, maybe some of them would do it for a couple of free shirts.
Who knows?
I saw some other shirt guy do this, and it looks pretty cool.


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## ryan barker

an idea i had was to hit conventions with a pile of shirts, the difference between the regular stuff and these would be that i would lay down a patch of white ink, perhaps surrounded by some gold ornamentation if it helps the design, and have them sign that area (take a pic if possible). on the site, there would a separate category for these that would either go up for auction (haven't figured that out) or just for sale at a high price. 100% of the proceeds would go to a charity, and i'd throw in my shirt and production cost if the celeb scribbled their name on the shirt. (i'd probably offer the shirt for sale at first, then auction it off after awhile if i couldn't sell it.) if at all possible, i would rather them wear the shirt in the same pic as the spokes mannequin i plan on building sometime this summer, the gawds permitting. 

mannequins are something i plan on using in any line what passes for my brain thinks up. the latest idea that i've been playing around with this last week is a higher end tee starting at $60. these mannequins, however, are the bottom of the barrel and beat all to hell, as far from flawless as possible. broken fingers? perfect. big scuff mark on the head? better yet. missing an arm? what difference does that make? all mannequins will be naked except for the shirt, the implication being 'if it's one article of clothing you wear....' 

for the high end site, i have the background visual concept in mind and the site lay-out sketched up, which is everything people say not to do in a lot of ways. i'm even toying with the idea of only having the site open for business a couple of hours here and there. there would be no contact information or refund policy, two things that right there are huge minuses. don't get me wrong, it would be a classy site all the way, but it's also aiming for a certain anonymous quality and have a very exclusive feel to it, as the shirts all are one-offs. the idea being imposed is you're buying art, and the quality of the garment itself is secondary. the settings range from industrial to fine restaurants, but mostly try to get as behind-the-scenes as possible.

as far as toying with ideas for this crazy idea is also the notion that i could set up a 'storefront' for a couple of hours in odd spots (fortunately i know people all around the country that i feel i could trust to set up a shop for me, so that the store could be anywhere). store locations would be given as global positioning numbers. the wares would be exclusive to that 'store' with a different coloured brand tag (white for online, blue for store-bought, gold for bespoke). the 'store' may be in an alley on hollywood blvd from midnight to 2 a.m. or in an old tobacco warehouse on the ohio river, that kind of thing. it's meant to be an adventure, leaving out all but the most motivated of customers.

a facebook presence would exist only for feedback, as there would be no address or phone number. all you would know is that the shirt was produced in the united states of america. 

as if that weren't all crazy enough, the idea to go even further with it had taken root to the point where i might offer the option of scenting the shirt with nice cologne/perfume. maybe it's possible to ask for free bottles from the companies in exchange for this plus hawking their name with a link, dunno. the option would be free on the higher priced shirts. quite odd, that, considering i'd mail the thing in whatever container i had handy, don't care if it's a pizza box.

there are two ideas at play here. the first is the more high-end shirt that looks like it was put together by dr. frankenstein (here i'm making it exclusive by limiting the stock, access, price and design), which pret-a-porter sites have. secondly, the idea is to have this mystery behind the manufacture itself, like a roped off area in front of a very interesting door that no one is guarding. having professional quality pics of somewhat avant-garde settings will be the key.

the mannequin faces will be painted by whatever artist i can dredge up or three year old that wants to play with some paint or whatever, the product page describing who the contributor is perhaps (no locatons given, of course). 

lastly, the shirts themselves would potentially be a combination of new and used, the designs a combination of sewing and whatever process i felt like using, but doubtlessly screen printing would be the predominant method (at least until i do water-based, which is something to think about before anything else, eh?). there's a kind of abercrombie & fitch/hollister comparison that can't be avoided, but the designs should be different enough to avoid confusion, plus mine wouldn't be mass produced.

sound like enough of disaster? i thought so, too.  to say it's different is an understatement.

thought that since ralph shared his idea, i'd add my current state of confusion to the mix....


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## 4revolution

Much like selling tees, facebook takes some time and dedication. But other than the cost of your time, it is a great free way to get word out. I initially got frustrated too but keep at it! One day you will only get only 2 people noticing your shirt, but then a while later you'll see it being passed around from person to person. Make connections with people who have similar interestes, ie: car show people. I now have 2100 friends, and I have been so delighted to see my tshirt being shared from someone I don't know to someone else I don't know. I always put up pics of my tee designs with my website address on the pic, so that every last person on that line of people knows how to find me.


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## mrfunone

I got a t shirt a couple of years ago signed by Davy Jones of The Monkees. I thought that it would be cooler to have than a signed pic. I never wear it. It's in my workroom somewhere.


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## atigerwanabee

Wow! What a great topic. I would like to add my 2 cents in if I can. I won't touch on what was already said. I could not have said it better. I was taught along time ago. 4 letters...KISS. That still applies even to this day. And, I think you folks know what KISS means right? Or is it KIS....hummmmmmmmmm


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## planespotting

I see it's been mentioned before a little bit, but let me fill you in from where I come from:

I have an extensive SEO background with ranking sites. It's great to have a nice site, but if no one can find it, that means no $$ as you obviously know. 

Some basic things you can do:

1) Track what keywords you're ranking for on all search engines
2) Add or overlay text. When you click on a shirt it's basically just opening an image. Google isn't going to give you any "link juice" from this
3) You still need backlinks. After the Google Penguin update in May, this became a little less relevant, but you Google is only picking up on 2 backlinks: taramorrisongraphics.com and this forum post. 
4) Run a Google Adwords campaign as a test. You can usually get free $100 coupon codes to test it out.
5) Take advantage of social media. Create a Facebook Business or Fan Page. I use an application that basically "virally" shares it with your friends on Facebook to encourage them and their friends to visit your page. It just keeps getting more and more visitors as you go along. 

PM me if you need more help


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## Shirt Evolution

GraphixGuys said:


> Tamara, You said it best... Its the marketing.
> 
> How many people are going to your site? You can find this out in your server stats.
> 
> This will tell you alot of information. Online sales are about the volume of people coming through your site.
> I sell on ebay and for shirts I look at how many people have viewed the item and how many people have bought items. One of my best shirts have had close to 1200 views and I have sold alittle more than 50 shirts. If you look at the number it is about a .04% buying rate. To me this is above average. If you have a .02% buying rate I think a product is sucessfull.
> 
> If you have had 10,000 people come to your site and only 100 people have clicked your link to see a perticular shirt design, and no one has bought it, then that design is irrelevant and needs to be trashed.
> If you have had 10,000 people come to your site and have had 3000 people click a shirt and no one has bought then there is other variables at play ( Like price, checkout process, site design, etc.)
> You need to find out how many people are going to your site and how many people are buying shirts. If you have only had 200 people come to your site and you have not sold a single shirt then that is perfectly normal.
> If nobody is coming to your site then try learning about SEO ( Search Engine Optimization) and Google adwords. These will help drive customers to your site.
> 
> Just remember that there are thousands of other sites just like yours (ie. I also have a honey badger shirt). You need to set yourself apart from them and that will help gain an edge against your competitors.


 
I'd like to point out why this is wrong:

Volume of traffic is a variable, but it's incidental to something a lot more important: Its quality of traffic.

If you have 10k people coming from a link you spammed on 4chan, then you might be lucky and hit a .02% conversion.

If you have 100 people coming from "buy honey badger shirt," on Google the chance of you making a sale is greater than the volume you were getting before. Simply because the QUALITY of the traffic is superior, meaning those people clicked on the link to find exactly what they're looking for. Volume, while not irrelevant, isn't as important as you'd think. That's why google is king of ads right now, because they're able to use their software to display relevant links.

It really comes down to quality of traffic. If a person wants to buy a shirt, they're more inclined to buy a shirt from you than say...someone who clicked a link on their FB page on a whim.

If you want my opinion why your conversions aren't great, your gateway is PayPal which cuts down a good % of people, and your cart interface needs work. If I click "add to cart" i immediately go to PayPal for checkout. If I want to click "Continue shopping" the link to it is very small and fairly hidden, and it redirects me back to your site. It's all fairly convoluted, and people who shop online want more convenience than that.


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## mrfunone

Hi.
I know that I'm new to all of this, but, I hafta axe a question.
Why are so many people building websites that get hardly any traffic going to them, when others are selling on ebay, bigcartel, artfire etc. and seem to be doing quite well?
Maybe a lone website is NOT the way to go?
It's so much time, effort and money to build a website and then hope that people find it and then hope that people buy from it.
Isn't it easier to sell the other way? 
It seems that it's VERY difficult to catch the eyeballs and get them to open up their wallets by having your own site.
It may work for the bigger companies that have money to burn on adverts, but, the little guy gets lost in all of the traffic.
Maybe, I'm missing something, but, thats how it looks from here.
Thanks.


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## Shirt Evolution

mrfunone said:


> Hi.
> I know that I'm new to all of this, but, I hafta axe a question.
> Why are so many people building websites that get hardly any traffic going to them, when others are selling on ebay, bigcartel, artfire etc. and seem to be doing quite well?
> Maybe a lone website is NOT the way to go?
> It's so much time, effort and money to build a website and then hope that people find it and then hope that people buy from it.
> Isn't it easier to sell the other way?
> It seems that it's VERY difficult to catch the eyeballs and get them to open up their wallets by having your own site.
> It may work for the bigger companies that have money to burn on adverts, but, the little guy gets lost in all of the traffic.
> Maybe, I'm missing something, but, thats how it looks from here.
> Thanks.


It is easier and cheaper to use services like EBay or Amazon as a portal to your work, but for every 1 Cafe Press shop that does well, there's about 1000 that make no sales at all. 

A website is good for establishing a brand. It's always more effective to see a .com than a cafepress.com/xyz, you know? It's a perception thing that historically pays off more than, say, an ebay or amazon store. That's not saying you can't do well on those sites, but there's no real advantage marketing-wise except you may have more money to market your ebay store since they do orders/ fullfillment for you. However, if your goal is to start a brand, it may not be the best way to go.


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## mrfunone

But, in order to start a brand...it seems to me...that you need GOBS of money to throw into your marketing mix!
The Mom & Pop shop working out of their garage is not likely to have $ to spend on a pro level website, nor have the $ to market it properly.
Thats all I'm saying.
Cafepress is a major league operation.
I don't know if there is much room for too many playas that large out there.
If you're gonna have you're own site, you may have to drop a lot of coin to get folks just to see it, let alone buy from it.


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## Shirt Evolution

mrfunone said:


> But, in order to start a brand...it seems to me...that you need GOBS of money to throw into your marketing mix!
> The Mom & Pop shop working out of their garage is not likely to have $ to spend on a pro level website, nor have the $ to market it properly.
> Thats all I'm saying.
> Cafepress is a major league operation.
> I don't know if there is much room for too many playas that large out there.
> If you're gonna have you're own site, you may have to drop a lot of coin to get folks just to see it, let alone buy from it.


 
What makes you think you won't have to market your Cafe Press store? Or your ebay store or any other store for that matter? Of course you will...unless you get very lucky. It doesn't just come to you overnight.

And Ecommerce sites are not that hard to make. There are many free platforms with templates and can be customized with a little research. It's becoming a lot more accessible.


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## tantechs

Tamara. Just look how many new people from this thread went and looked at your site....
I liked it personally..... Your getting there......


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## mrfunone

You still have to market wherever you are.
But, when you have your own site, it seems more difficult. You're like this island out in the ocean and you wanna signal people that you're there and you're alive.


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## atigerwanabee

Call me Very Old Fashion but, I have Business Cards with my link on the back with High Impact Graphics that folks see when they visit my site. Call me old fashion If i still have actual samples to show my artwork to folks. Call me old fashion if I still use e-mails and PDF's to send to folks. And finally call me Old Fashion if I pound the payment with some samples always on hand. And this is a tip I learn along time ago. Put your advertisment in small letters on the shirt and just accidently leave it at your customers shop or store where folks can see it.


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## selanac

As everyone always say, It's a Numbers Game.


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## proworlded

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but if you get 1-2 percent conversion to sales on a retail site you should consider it the norm.


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## mrfunone

It's not how many people look at your stuff thats important.
It's how many people that BUY your stuff that counts.
To me anyway.


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## proworlded

But you need the numbers looking to convert into sales. Advertising draws the numbers.


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## mrfunone

Who was the famous ad man that said: "Half of my advertising money is wasted. I just don't know which half."
Or something like that?


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## proworlded

Don't know who, but thankfully half is not wasted. Depends on how you look at the glass...half empty or half full!


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## mrfunone

John Wanamaker
department store retail tycoon about 100 years ago


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## mrfunone

proworlded said:


> Don't know who, but thankfully half is not wasted. Depends on how you look at the glass...half empty or half full!


I always see my glass as half full, but, theres probably something wrong with the water!


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## proworlded

Maybe you switch to lemonade. A sweet drink made from sour lemons. lol. Enjoy the weekend.


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## ryan barker

you tell me, is an ebay store even comparable to a bigcartel site for customization and the idea that you can use your own domain name with bigcartel? i'm not advocating bigcartel, but given the choice between the two.... 

i think it depends on what your business goals and what you sell as to what kind of site you need, eh? but, it's kind of like one of those 'when do i get rid of my old car' quandaries, 'do i spend a lot of money and get close to my dream site (e.g., professional quality pics, real models, etc.), or do i start slow with a basic, functional thing and build up?' most would probably say start small and use your money for marketing/advertising seeing as how you can get pretty good results with the basic template sites with little customization. 

but, it *is* a business, and if great results for free were the norm everyone would be doing it, right?


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## mrfunone

Nothing is easy anymore.
I've run into old guys who tell me that as salesmen, they used to be just order takers.
Now, they have to really sell themselves!
It's not even the product anymore.
But, the person behind the product!


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## atigerwanabee

That is why I come to this forum. You guys truly know what you are talking about. Even if it is your opinion. I like that. I can't really add anymore to what you folks have said and the advice you have given. All I know is it is spot on. When I finally post my new website I want you all to critique it as well. What is the old saying? "Honesty Is The Best Policy?" Is that it?


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## selanac

Ralph, I just realized you're from NJ. North, Central or South? I'm by the shore. 

Don't give up. Keep advertising.


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## mrfunone

I'm in Cranbury.
About halfway between Freehold & Princeton.
The Turnpike runs right through the town!


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## mrfunone

You're in Tommy's River.

Right next to Seaside "Snooki" Heights.


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## selanac

That's correct. You're by San Mar's old warehouse.


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## mrfunone

Yeah. They moved down the road apiece.
I was there a couple of months ago.
HUGE warehouse!

They're good to buy from, right?


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## selanac

Yes, we've been using them for years. They're much closer to us now. 

If we don't make a minimum on an order we dry over. It's easier to get to now.


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