# Sublimation Color Trouble



## GetPersonalGifts (Feb 16, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I've been printing t-shirts for a couple years using a cutter and t-shirt vinyl, but last October I decided to try out dye sublimation, hopefully to expand my market. I bought an Epson WF7010, a CIS, some Nano Digital Sublimation ink, some Beaver TexPrintXP-HR multi-purpose sublimation paper, and various different substrates from Conde(aluminum ornaments, shirts, license plates, etc...). 

Basically, it's been a disaster. I know that sublimation comes with quite a learning curve, but it's been months and not one of my photo prints have turned out well. Anything that is like a vector graphic with only solid colors turns out OK, not great. But when trying to put photographs on anything, the result is terrible. The color is always way off and trying to correct it myself hasn't helped at all. What could be the problem? Cheap ink, paper, or just inexperience?

I tried to get help from Conde, but they didn't seem too interested in taking the time to get my issues resolved. Any help would be appreciated! 

Thanks!
Ethan Gibson


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## SaB (May 15, 2007)

hi Ethan!
Is your ICC installed? what software you use for printing?


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## GetPersonalGifts (Feb 16, 2013)

Well originally I used the Sawgrass PowerDriver, because for some reason the ink company that I bought from doesn't supply ICCs for their ink (at least I couldn't find them anywhere). I realize this isn't really the way it's supposed to be done since ICCs match specific inks, but I thought I'd just try it out anyway. When that wasn't worked I changed to printing from the regular Epson driver with no color correction on (it actually improved the prints quite a bit, but they still weren't good quality).

I guess I really just want to know if I should just break down and buy the Sawgrass Ink? When I first bought everything, I didn't really want to pay $750 to get the Sawgrass ink and CIS kit, so I just went with what I found on Amazon. And if I should go with Sawgrass, what type?

Thanks!


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

You just need a custom ICC making so your inks and printer can work together, this should cost around £25, and then your colours should be right, and you can continue with the same inks you're already using, and not fork out for expensive Sawgrass.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Conde will not be of help if you did not buy your supplies from them. As stated, your issue is with a correct ICC profile for the specific ink that you use. I would not pay to have one made as the next batch of ink from your ink source may not be the same. There are those on the forum that disagree with me but I have been doing sublimation since 1997 and have always used Sawgrass inks with the power driver..never an issue or problem...I bit the bullet..pay the price and then charge accordingly...remember with sublimation and other products you are not really selling a specific value...but the PERCEIVED value that your client wants...Some have used Cobra hi temp inks...I tried and did not have great success...but you might try them out. I think those inks, while not advertised as sublimation ink, have been used for sublimation. I think M Parrish on this forum speaks well of them..


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## GetPersonalGifts (Feb 16, 2013)

Well thank you all for the advice, I guess I'll have to think about it and decide which route I want to take.

Thanks!
Ethan


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## mrclgoes (Dec 28, 2013)

I am sorry for this dumb question but what is ICC?

I am also having trouble with color saturation. does this ICC have anything to do with it?

Should I open my "own" tread about it?

Thank you guys.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

ICC is International Color Consortium and is used for color management. With sublimation you not only need sublimation ink and paper but the correct ICC profile for your specific ink AND printer. Reliable vendors will provide it or you have to have one made. Google ICC for more info


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## mrclgoes (Dec 28, 2013)

thank you for the brief.


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## beegee (Feb 5, 2014)

Hi I just got my ricoh 3110 in today and was looking on going the cheap route with sublimation ink instead of sawgrass because the price but I take it now I will go with them because of the icc profile Thanks guys.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

You can get an ICC profile made for the Ricoh printers, just the same as an Epson printer, but the non-Sawgrass inks are harder to source for the Ricohs, and there isn't as much choice, compared to Epson, where there are some big brand companies producing sublimaiton inks which won't work in Ricohs.


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## mrclgoes (Dec 28, 2013)

thanks guys. I gonna check it.

have you guys ever tried Fluorescent dye sublimation?


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## jpkyle (Jan 31, 2014)

Having an ICC to profile to match your specific ink is one of the most important steps in getting good sublimation results. Yes, Sawgrass ink is more expensive, but the profiles are readily available and there is support available from the company you are purchasing the inks from (at least there should be) as well as from Sawgrass.

In regards to the fluorescent inks, you can get some very vibrant beautiful images with this ink but once again having the correct profile is key. With Sawgrass inks it is available in large format only but with the correct printer, ink, paper and profile combo it looks amazing!


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

jpkyle said:


> Yes, Sawgrass ink is more expensive, but the profiles are readily available


Bespoke ICC profiles cost about £25, and is a one-off set up cost. Sawgrass providing generic ICC profiles with their ink (for a handful of printers on the market) hardly justifies their extortionate pricing. In fact, you could buy your own profiling kit, with the money saved on buying other inks with the money you save on not buying Sawgrass' inks, you could easily budget for a backup printer with ink savings over time.

The way we work, is to buy the printer which fulfils our needs, and then source the ink we want to us, and then lastly create the ICC. This way we have freedom to run our business and prints the way we want and need, we don't have to be limited to one ink company and the few models of printer that they have decided to make ICCs for.


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## jpkyle (Jan 31, 2014)

I certainly won't argue the process that each company chooses for themselves. In my experience profiling equipment (spectrophotometer) and software is quite expensive. Not all companies have the means or expertise to write their own profiles. Another aspect of this is the support that your ink supplier and manufacturer will provide to you. There are many lower cost inks on the market that do not always have the support available when needed.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

For sublimation work a colormunki or spyder ICC profiling system is plenty good enough, and is only a few hundred dollars/pounds ...easily budgetable against savings by not buying overpriced inks.
There is so much support online, that what handholding could you actually need from an ink manufacturer? surely sales law (at least in UK) gives your guarantee to be with the vendor not manufacturer. Having said that, Sawgrass isn't the only company to warranty/guarantee their inks, and the printers that use them.


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## jpkyle (Jan 31, 2014)

It sounds like you are a very experienced printer that can certainly handle these types of issues on your own, but not everyone is. For those that are not, they may need more assistance and support from their supplier/manufacturer.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

True, I suppose I am. But everything I do has been self taught, either through trial and error learning, or doing research online to learn what I am doing. I've not had any hand holding from dealers, suppliers or manufacturers.


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## jpkyle (Jan 31, 2014)

You and many others are very capable and self taught and prefer it that way. The other side of that is there are many customers that either want the walk-through or need it. That's the great thing about this is that we are all at different levels and there are options for all of them!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

charles95405 said:


> Conde will not be of help if you did not buy your supplies from them. As stated, your issue is with a correct ICC profile for the specific ink that you use. I would not pay to have one made as the next batch of ink from your ink source may not be the same. There are those on the forum that disagree with me but I have been doing sublimation since 1997 and have always used Sawgrass inks with the power driver..never an issue or problem...I bit the bullet..pay the price and then charge accordingly...remember with sublimation and other products you are not really selling a specific value...but the PERCEIVED value that your client wants...Some have used Cobra hi temp inks...I tried and did not have great success...but you might try them out. I think those inks, while not advertised as sublimation ink, have been used for sublimation. I think M Parrish on this forum speaks well of them..


Cobra inks I use are sublimation inks. Early adopters of the Cobra inks had color issues due to the ICC profile provided. 

2 years ago Cobra upgraded their optical equipment to high end and now makes profiles as accurate as Sawgrass does.

I disagree on charging accordingly on everything, mugs and small items maybe. but depending on the substrate and sq ink coverage you can't just charge accordingly and be competitive. Hard to price t-shirts 4 or 5 dollars higher than others on a 13 x 19 transfered shirt because you are getting gouged on your inks and they aren't.

From a competitive standpoint I could either price the same as you and make more money for the same item than you, or price lower, make the same margin, but make more overall profit on my volume pricing structures.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

It does seem that this is something a lot of Sawgrass users believe, and so I wonder if it is another myth preached by Sawgrass dealers - that it's OK that their inks are so expensive, as they can still charge accordingly for their products to take this into account, but when their competition has non-Sawgrass ink, (whether they are printing wide format or not) then it's not going to be easy to compete, it's not a level playing field.


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