# soaking exposed screen before wash out? Help me I am stupid lol



## Clan Co (Mar 15, 2010)

Hi me again. I am trying to get detail to wash out right and not having much luck. I use the HU it is green to start out and turns blue when exposed, great. when I burn the screen I can see all the detail in green - surroounded by pretty blue - wonderful. only the green doesn't all wash out before it too turns blue. most of the time I can see where the lines were even days afterward. so I think well I am washing this outside and the sunlight even in the shade must be exposing my screens. So today I tried soaking the exposed screen in warm water for a minute, maybe two, before going outside to wash .oops all the green came out and most of the blue too. the question becomes did I undersexpose or was it the warm water? 

on the plus side I finally got my death rider to look right. he probably won't last long but for one print he looks great. - nice shading on the horse. more than I planned but now I know how much shading looks good.


----------



## hdem (Mar 1, 2008)

you can't wash your screen outside. the sun will harden the emulsion within seconds. if you have no option, at least do it behind a wall where it blocks the sun's rays.

also keeping a screen soaked in water for even a few short minutes will make even fully exposed emulsion wash out. one time i exposed a screen and rinsed it with water before i hit it with pressure. i got distracted for less than 5 minutes and that was enough time to soften all the emulsion and ruin my screen.


----------



## Clan Co (Mar 15, 2010)

I wash them in the shade. most of the time this is ok but now I want to get some fine detail and having trouble. will try at night maybe. just thought a warm soak would be good. other people have said they do it for a minute or so but no mention of water temp.


----------



## hdem (Mar 1, 2008)

I suppose warm water rather than cold won't hurt the emulsion, it just might shave a few seconds off the soak time before hitting it with pressure but that's all. Water temperature isn't important compared to correct exposure and wash out procedures. If it is too difficult to wash out the design then I suggest shortening your exposure time by 30 second intervals. After exposure soak both sides of the screen for roughly 1 - 2 minutes then proceed to hit the screen with moderate water pressure. Don't let it soak for too long because it will all wash out. Also if your emulsion is old it will cause you trouble.


----------



## mtadashi (Jan 20, 2011)

Are you degreasing the screen before coating it?


----------



## SnapGraphics (Dec 21, 2010)

Don't wash out your screen outside during the day, it sounds like you are exposing your unexposed area before washing out. You can buy a $100 parts washer from Harbor Freight 20 Gallon Parts Washer with General Purpose Pump

Or buy a large storage tub from your local big box store (Target or Wal-Mart) and use this in your garage or basement.

I personally have a hose running under my garage door into my pressure washer and then rinse in the parts washer I bought from Harbor Freight.


----------



## macmiller (Jul 23, 2007)

If it's exposed properly, you should be able to soak it for several minutes. A lot of shops use a dip tank with plain water just for that purpose. Some even drop an air hose in for agitation. 

Even just spraying each side down well works much better than using pressure from the get-go. Just make sure you're at least in shade if not indoors.


----------



## huliganco (Mar 6, 2011)

i know im a little off topic.. but to remover emulsion can "goo gone" do the job?


----------



## justinswinston (Mar 7, 2012)

This is kind of a dead thread, but I was just washing out my screens and I found that using a scrub brush removed some of the emulsion that I wanted to keep in tact. When re-doing this with the exact same steps and not scrubbing it I had a much better result, but I would assume my stencil is still weak.

Should post-exposure in this case? Seems like I am under-exposing since a pressure washer has a lot more impact than a scrub brush and they should be holding up to that at the very least....


----------



## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

We expose indoors, put screen in washout booth, wet both sides with low pressure, let sit for a few minutes, then wash out from shirt side of the screen with low pressure. We then put the screen outside to dry/harden the screen. The ink side of the screen doesn't harden like the shirt side since it isn't directly exposed, so it is much more delicate and responsive to water than the other side. Washing out the exposed screen outdoors, or using a brush will cause problems when washing out the exposed screen. If properly exposed, it should only take a minute or two to wash out the screen from the shirt side, with low-med water pressure. Some people do the entire process in a dark room, but we haven't seen any problems working in ambient light from UV bulbs.


----------



## justinswinston (Mar 7, 2012)

So, Justin, you're saying that it's best to just use water to get your stencil cleaned out after exposing and using a brush is overkill until the stencil really dries properly? I just want to be clear that the brushing part of it is not recommended....

On another note, you say the ink side is sensitive - but this is the side that you are interacting with when printing so wouldn't you want it to be strong enough to withstand the print run.  Well the entire stencil should be in this case....just curious as to how the stencil goes from being sensitive when washing out to reliable enough to print with...

Thanks for the info earlier btw.


----------



## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

justinswinston said:


> So, Justin, you're saying that it's best to just use water to get your stencil cleaned out after exposing and using a brush is overkill until the stencil really dries properly? I just want to be clear that the brushing part of it is not recommended....
> 
> On another note, you say the ink side is sensitive - but this is the side that you are interacting with when printing so wouldn't you want it to be strong enough to withstand the print run. Well the entire stencil should be in this case....just curious as to how the stencil goes from being sensitive when washing out to reliable enough to print with...
> 
> Thanks for the info earlier btw.


the difference is drying and/or post hardening. the emulsion will be less sensitive and more solid when it's dry.. While you are spraying it with water and letting it sit it can soften up a little bit.

Here are the things that I found most helpful when exposing/washing out a screen:
1. Start with a super dark positive. Try the trials of accurip or FilmMaker and you will see the difference.
2. expose for the correct time. Make sure you have some type of exposure calculator. I like the 21 step test.
3. I bring the screen to my bathtub upstairs in a black bag.. I have all the lights off and the windows blocked. 
4. I spray the screen on both sides with just the shower head. I rub the screen with my hand on the shirt side and I can see the image design within a few seconds (I use Photopolymer Emulsion so you don't see the image until you get it wet).
5. I let it sit for anywhere from 2-5 minutes
6. I return to the bathroom and flip the lights on. I spray with the shower head on regular setting(no need for a pressure washer at all) and the design starts to wash right out. 
7. If I have any stubborn areas I will rub them lightly with my fingertips to help get some of the non-exposed emulsion agitated more.
8. I lightly dry the screen and blot with paper towels and will fan dry(at night) or bring outside for drying and post-hardening.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I never scrub, rub or touch the image. Wet the screen let sit 2 min spray out with hose light pressure shirt side only.


----------



## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

I am no pro at this but I have had no problems with my apartment set up, I have a hose outside and I expose in my dinning room then in the middle of the day I can walk outside in the direct sun and wash out my screen. I get EVERYTHING ready to go before I go outside though. And remember WET emulsion is not uv sensitive (as much). As long as your expose time is good, you should have no problem. I walk right outside and grab the hose with a light spray and I keep the screen wet, shirt and ink side. After about 30 seconds to a minute I can hit it a bit harder with the hose and boom the image washes right out. I can do great halftones this way and I can do this with no scrubbing or soaking in a tub or water. my two cents.


----------



## bomber315 (Jun 18, 2010)

i do almost exactly the same as greatsky... only i wet the screen and let it sit for a couple of minutes before i leave my darkroom. i just use a regular spray bottle to intially wet them, a detachable shower head, to rinse as much as i can, and the spray bottle again to blast out any tough spots


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Unik Ink said:


> The ink side of the screen doesn't harden like the shirt side since it isn't directly exposed, so it is much more delicate and responsive to water than the other side.


Two Justins? Is there a coup afoot? 

The exposed side of the screen will have a tendency
to cure first, but with proper cure, it shouldn't be anymore delicate or responsive to water than the exposed side. If that's the case then the emulsion isn't fully cured throughout (just like ink cures from heat side but must cure all the way through). Some do this to hold detail then a "bump" exposure after wash out to finish cure. Too easy to lose edge definition and detail when washing out. Some swear by washing from one side or the other. It shouldn't matter with full proper exposure.

But hey, if what you're doing is working with no problems, carry on.


----------



## justinswinston (Mar 7, 2012)

Last question that pops into my mind is water temperature. Some say cold damages the emulsion, but I would think warm or hot water could break it down.... Maybe room temperature would be the way to go for consistency. Thoughts?

And, there can never be too many Justins - universal law.


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

justinswinston said:


> Last question that pops into my mind is water temperature.
> 
> And, there can never be too many Justins - universal law.


Definitely not hot-hot. Neutral to the touch should be fine. You'll get different opinions. 


Gotta watch for those Justin wannabes


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I don't have any hot water at all. So my water temp is 54F. Never a problem.


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

sben763 said:


> I don't have any hot water at all. So my water temp is 54F. Never a problem.


You know my shop water heater hasn't been on in years.


----------



## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

Lukewarm water will develop a screen faster, but not by a whole lot.


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

ScreenFoo said:


> Lukewarm water will develop a screen faster, but not by a whole lot.


Who is Luke Warm? And what's so special about _his _water?


----------



## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't know, but for some reason, Bob warm doesn't work.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I thought Luke used the force.... Not warm. What am I missing.


----------



## inkdrips (Aug 16, 2010)

Do you think hard or soft water can affect the washout time?


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

My experience is that it doesn't matter


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

sben763 said:


> I thought Luke used the force.... Not warm. What am I missing.


Luke has a Cool Hand and I'd guess it's from the water.


----------



## justinswinston (Mar 7, 2012)

Greatzky said:


> 6. I return to the bathroom and flip the lights on. I spray with the shower head on regular setting(no need for a pressure washer at all) and the design starts to wash right out.


So, I finally got around to do doing another step test. I used DZ 343 emulsion and exposed on a UF UV blacklight exposure unit with 30s intervals from 3.5 to 6 mins. Coated the screen 2x1 and then a clean up pass on the ink side. I then took it to the shower - overhead fluorescent lights on - and coated the screen with water for 30s. After that I started spraying with the shower head and the results were pretty good. Overall the 4 minute was the best and the 6 minute was pretty bad (thin lines were not coming out completely). About ambient water temp throughout...

I think a couple things I need to fix are: making sure my contact between screen, positive, and glass are good and that the positive film I'm using is not UV coated. I just found some old ones laying around and am using those so I'm not sure as to their material composition.

I will post a pic when I get a chance but I just wanted to share my results with everyone. Overall, the suggestions are taking me in the right direction - thanks to all who helped again.


----------



## duke-317 (Mar 23, 2008)

there are other emulsions that will hold up better outside try some thing pre mixed like chromalines ultra blue.


----------



## aaronc (Apr 19, 2011)

bomber315 said:


> i do almost exactly the same as greatsky... only i wet the screen and let it sit for a couple of minutes before i leave my darkroom. i just use a regular spray bottle to intially wet them, a detachable shower head, to rinse as much as i can, and the spray bottle again to blast out any tough spots



Same here, I was going to ask if anyone else does this, surprised to not see that.

While still in my dark room, I have a squirt bottle from the $1 store and I just spray down both sides completely, walk to the washout area and hit it with a regular hose. Scrub a little bit with soap and water and it's ready to go.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

If you wet the screen and let is start to degrade the unexposed emulsion you could washout outdoors if needed. I do see a few saying about scrubbing. I never scrub my screens during washout. If you have to scrub you may be overexposing. I wet screen let sit 1-3 min then washout with light pressure from a hose. 

Premixed or photo polyomer emulsions are more sensitive than dual cure.


----------



## Zardiw (Aug 13, 2017)

I wash out my screens in the shower. It's easy to make it light safe........fwtfw .........z


----------

