# Sublimation Printer



## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

Does anyone know anything about the Epson 9700 printer? What is a good wide format printer to use for dye sub?

Thanks
William


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Do you need the speed? Otherwise you can get a refurbished 9600 for a fifth of the price.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Also, how wide of a printer do you need? What are you planning on Sublimating?


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## theted (Feb 17, 2012)

Your choice for the printer should be based on the print width that you actually need and the work load you expect it to handle. We have used many of the Epsoms with good results. Our 7880's are true workhorses - as with everything, there are a few problems that you encounter but a good eye on maintenance issues does great to keep the machines running smoothly. What size prints will you be doing?


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

We will be doing full dye sub. We do cut and sew. Right now speed is not too much of an issue but very quickly could be. We are looking at the geo press with top and bottom heat. Good press?? Will take all the advice we can get.

Thanks


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Italianrose said:


> We will be doing full dye sub. We do cut and sew. Right now speed is not too much of an issue but very quickly could be. We are looking at the geo press with top and bottom heat. Good press?? Will take all the advice we can get.
> 
> Thanks


Speed would be the last thing I would consider in a printer especially when startig out. Vendors always like to talk about it but how many people run their dye sub printer more than a few hours a day? I woul guess less than 10%. By the time speed becomes an issue you will need a new printer anyways. If you were on location at a fair or flea market sped surely becomes an issue. When we first started we had an Epson 9800 and when big jobs cam up we ran it over night. 

I personally never understood the dual heated platten espcially for apparel unless you are crushing shirts but for cut and dew, unless I am missing something, it has no value that I can see. Maybe someone has some ideas otherwise.


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

Do you know anything about the 9890 Epson, is it a good printer? What press do you all use?

We were looking at the dual heat because we are looking at doing alot of softball and baseball also but not cut and sew. They would be full sub with the small line down the side. This way we can do a number in the design on front and back. Hope this makes sense.

Thanks for helping


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Italianrose said:


> Do you know anything about the 9890 Epson, is it a good printer? What press do you all use?
> 
> We were looking at the dual heat because we are looking at doing alot of softball and baseball also but not cut and sew. They would be full sub with the small line down the side. This way we can do a number in the design on front and back. Hope this makes sense.
> 
> Thanks for helping


The Epsons are work horses, well designed and the best first wide format printer one could get. If you need more info I would contct Daniel at Digitally Driven [email protected]. He is one of the few that not only know dye sub inks but wide format printers including Epsons. 

I still do not get the dual heated concept. It would seem very difficult to get both sides lined up correctly with the paper. Second it is a dying market, that being premade crushed sports apparel. There will always be the bottom feeder teams that use vinyl and premade garments but the market has already moved to full dye cut and sew. There just is not a huge difference in cost to print double sided on a jersey versus just making one. Add to that the error rate on pressing premade compared to cut and sew which is virtually zero and you can see why jersey crushing is fading away.

Also be aware the softball market, for reasons I do not understand, is flooded. What you can get for a softball jersey has dropped by a third in the last couple years because so many people go after it. Again no clue why other than maybe so many enthusiast that they try to make a few bucks out of the market. Basically taking the jersey concept softball pricing is the low end with racing apparel at the high end. Same basic concepts just different price points.


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply, we are also taking your advice and rethinking the dual heat. You brought us some good points. Will check with David also. Interesting on the softball, will check into that further also. Our main focus is football jerseys and baseball and it appears sub is just moving into the football world. We currently do heat press and silk screening for these sports and are getting alot of requests for sub for our current customers.

Thanks again for your feedback.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Italianrose said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, we are also taking your advice and rethinking the dual heat. You brought us some good points. Will check with David also. Interesting on the softball, will check into that further also. Our main focus is football jerseys and baseball and it appears sub is just moving into the football world. We currently do heat press and silk screening for these sports and are getting alot of requests for sub for our current customers.
> 
> Thanks again for your feedback.


Need to really research sports like soccer and football. It is not as simple as other sports. Most football/soccer/basketball styled jerseys are very simple with a logo/number on them for a reason. If a league allowed full dye sub jersey designs it could be a real mess out on the field trying to tell one team from another. The other challenge is you would most likely have to deal at the league level versus the team level. Makes things a risk bigger reward.

Personally from all of our research football will be screened/vinyl for a long time due to uniform designs needing to be basic so teams/refs can easily indentitfy players.


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

Ouch,
On football have to disagree, lost 4 leagues this year due to sublimated football uniforms, have another 1 or 2 asking.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Italianrose said:


> Ouch,
> On football have to disagree, lost 4 leagues this year due to sublimated football uniforms, have another 1 or 2 asking.


As I stated one of the challenges is dealing at a league level not a team level which means typically a frenzy of bids and lower margins. The other challenge in sports like softball/football are many of the providers provide all the apparel/equipment. Pads, shoes, pants, etc. 

The other thing to remember is you cannot be profitable in cut and sew unless you are national. It is a process and one that takes time. 

Instead of losing business sub the work out. We sub'd our full dye jerseys out till we hit 200 units+ a month.

If football is a market you are comfortable sell the heck out of and have someone make the jerseys. Making jerseys anyone can do - selling/marketing jerseys very few can do.


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

Do you know anything about the epson 9890 printer? Or in your opinion is any Epson a good printer. We are a sporting goods store that does 12,000 + football jerseys a year. We have tried to use outside sub people, however they are not able to do my fillins in the time frame we need them. We have a league we supply, 1,500+ jerseys, 1,500 pairs of pants, socks, belts, (no shoes), etc. We have no problem getting the first or second order but when it comes to the 2nd from last order of 35, then the last order of 5 late signups it takes 4-6 weeks to get anything. The football season is half over before we get the last of the jerseys. We have tried the over order but we run into size and player number issues. We lost over 2,500 jerseys last year to sublimation.This is why we are trying to bring in house. We do all our screening in-house, embroidery, tackle twill etc.

We really appreciate all your help and advice in the sub field. I wanted to thank you also for your thoughts on top and bottom heat, we are rethinking the alignment of the numbers. 

Thanks


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

If you have that many you probably don't want one printer anyways. You'll need several plus the personal to run them.


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

You are correct, however not all are wanting sub, (not yet and we hope not all ever). Right now we are looking at 10 -15% of our leagues are asking about sub. We have talked with some of the companies that have done sub for us and we wanted to work with them in this sense. They do our bulk order and we can do the last minute fill-ins if we can make our colors work. The problem is they are not open to working together and don't like the idea of us going into sub ourselves. We do alot of screening for our competitors they have learned to trust us that we will not go after their customers. Our dye sub people have not learned this about us. In the long run they will lose because of it. There is alot of work out there if you provide a quality product, have customer service, and deliver on time, as I stated earlier this delivery on time is a killer for us right now. 

What do you think about the Epson printers?

Thanks and any info you have would be greatly appreaciated.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I think the Epson grand printers are fine, though I haven't use any of the very newest ones you mention. They're good workhorses, and many people have built successful businesses using them. I think it really comes down to service and support if you buy new. This is especially true when using inks that Epson considered unsupported. So, I'd recommend finding a reseller you like and feel you can work with, then find the printer they offer you like best.

As you have multiple options for dye sub inks, I'd start asking the reseller/suppliers for finished samples, and get those lined up for comparison. Compare, and be sure to inquire on the process. And remember it takes some skill and experience to get to the quality of the samples they'll send.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Here is the simple scoop on cut and sew. Most cut and sew shops operate close to if not at capacity thus there is not a lot of room to do wholesale especially seasonal wholesale. The only time it makes sense for a cut and sew shop to take on a wholesale account is if is steady on-going business in which you can adjust your production runs. The reason the time is so long is a cut and sew is going to take care of their profitable retail business before spending time on small wholesale runs. They cannot be profitable and staff up for a couple months of wholes seasonal business.

If you have a steady on-going need than the cut and sew shop should never take more than 3 weeks, more likely two to fill an order. 

Epson wide format printers are by far the easiest printers to use and best designed printers to use. We started with an 9800 and after we worked it to death we moved to a Mutoh which is poorly designed in comparison. The quality of the print is going to much more about the ink and the profile than the printer.

Realize any printer manufacture will void the ink delivery system system the second you stick dye sub ink into the printer. How warranty/service work is handled is also very different between vendors. Epson has authorized service centers everywhere. You call an 800 number and they dispatch. Our particular guy never cared about using dye sub ink and fixed it under warranty. You never want to say upfront you are using dye sub ink - I never hid it just never advertised it. Realize also the second these guys walk in the door you have already spent a small fortune.

Mutoh is another story - the RJ900 is not sold by Mutoh only distributors. These distributors like the crooks at Graphic One will hold you hostage. If you do not use their ink then they void the ink delivery system as well and will not service it. Now you are stuck to finding someone who will come out and work on the Mutoh. 

We lucked out as Mutoh is located here but it took some begging to get them to come out as they typically will not work directly on the smaller printers like an RJ900.

Epson is the safest choice by far when starting off.


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## pafitis (Aug 4, 2010)

Which is the best? Mutoh, mimaki or roland for sublimation large format printer. I need to print direct on flag and also sublimation paper for other use.


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## Eview1 (Apr 29, 2010)

I am a beginner and bought Epson wf1100, I use another ink and if I could purchase the larger one I would, but gotta start somewhere, they are easy to use and fast. The larger format (up to 44 inch) is my new dream..


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Eview1 said:


> I am a beginner and bought Epson wf1100, I use another ink and if I could purchase the larger one I would, but gotta start somewhere, they are easy to use and fast. The larger format (up to 44 inch) is my new dream..


Never stop dreaming! This is how we started. We then looked at markets that were either under served or had a reputation for slow delivery and poor custome service. 

We then spent all of our time and money marketing ourselves while outsourcing our full dye cut and sew. Within a year we were selling enought units to bring it in house. 

Best of luck.


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## Italianrose (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks to all of you I just purchased the Epson 9890 printer......................


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