# Generic Sublimation Inks



## mobilemaxent (Sep 23, 2007)

hi, i was wondering if anyone has had any expierance with bulk generic sublimation inks. I bought these inks thinking i could save some money, but after using them, they looked washed out. The inks didn't come with any color profiles. can anyone help, or at least point me in the right direction to getting the inks to look better?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Can't really offer any suggestions based upon the info provided.
where did the ink come from? the manufacturer..off shore or ?
what paper are you using, accuplot, textprint..or?
the washed out look is normal on the paper..when the transfer is pressed, the true colors come out
Have you pressed any object? results? 

I am aware of any reliable inks except sublijet/artainium from sawgrass and sublibrite from TOG. all that I have used, I had to set up a color profile


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## mobilemaxent (Sep 23, 2007)

bought inks from chinese importer. I am using jet cole 95% release paper. I haven't printed on anything other than some mouse pads from conde and a soft L'ink Test T. I have used Sublijet and Artainium ink and have had awsome results with thier profiles.


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

that ink is awful i had tried import ink before from china ( distributor in los angeles area) and it's garbage... get good ink it's not worth it


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Not to be a prune.... Besides the obvisous issue (i.e. what you did is illegal because of the patents Sawgrass has), you already have the answer. Most likely it is the lack of profiles. Just like the knock-off die and pigment inks... the profiles are very much different than the Epson inks. The reward (i.e cost savings) is not worth the hassle of getting profiles created and the risk of getting sued by Sawgrass. Get rid of it and chalk it up to a business lesson.


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## mobilemaxent (Sep 23, 2007)

why would using chinese inks be illegal??? Sawgrass holds no pat. on them not using sawgrass profiles. Although,I have baught and used sawgrass ink and the profiles that go with them with awsome out come!


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## mobilemaxent (Sep 23, 2007)

why would using chinese inks be illegal??? Not using sawgrass profiles with them. At $30.00 /125ml bottle, it is well worth the effort to try and get the dang things to work.... unless, of coarse, you're a rich prune?!?!?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't think you are doing anything illegal..since sawgrass has the patent on THEIR inks...as TOG holds on their ink..therefore the two are fighting. BUT what you bought from china is what the call 'sublimation ink' which is not constituted chemically the same as sawgrass and TOG ...so they are not in violation of the patent...or so I think..but I am not an attorney..

the problem is that the china inks are just junk. I have not known anyone to have success with them. 

right now the next court hearing in the sawgrass/tog lawsuit has now been moved to Jan 08...why not look at TOG ..they are about 30-40% cheaper and people report good success.... i have a set of carts of their ink for my 1280, but since I opted to buy the 1400 with artainium, I have not bothered to open the carts and try..


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## mobilemaxent (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks Charles, I'll have to look into those inks. Where can you get them from?
By the way, I way gotten pretty close to my control print of artainium ink with the chinese inks. Might be close enough to actually start using these for production. I have a 1280 and I have just been playing with the color control settings. I just can't seem to get the reds as dark as the artainum control print. I guess i'll keep trying. Thanks for the input.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

The reason why it is illegal is because Sawgrass owns the patent for sublimation ink in the US and also in Europe (and possibly other places). I am not a chemist, but it has something to do with the suspension fluid that used to get the sublimation ink through an piezo printhead. Thus, any sublimation inks sold in the US has to either be Sawgrass ink or a royalty is paid to Sawgrass. At the prices you stated above, there is no way that the Sawgrass royalty was paid. I don't actually know what it is, but at that low of a price...there would be a lot more companies coming into the market and there is no way anyone would buy Sawgrass ink (ArTainium or SubliJet IQ). Thus, it would be counter-productive for them.

Sawgrass succesfully won a lawsuit against Tropical Graphics (manufacturer of ArTainium) and ultimately took over that ink a couple years ago. Most people believe it is a matter of time before the TOG lawsuit is decided as well. I am not saying that I will be happy if Sawgrass wins and Sawgrass having total control of the market. But, the fact is they own legal patents and going around the patents is illegal. Thus, the reason for my statement above. Using Sawgrass' profiles does not make a difference one way or another. It is the process of buying ink from a supplier / distributor that is illegally selling sublimation ink in the US. Sawgrass would be more likely to go after the manufacturer /distributor (potentially bigger pockets), but that still does not mean they can't go after you as well.

Hope this makes my previous statement clear.

Mark

P.S. I only wish I was a rich prune! That would be nice.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I greatly respect DAGuide and his expertise...and honest folks often have honest differences. I have spent many years in law enforcement. I do not think anyone can be sued for just using the ink..but the seller of the ink could be. There are enough legal issues in that statement to keep lawyers busy for the next year!

on a brighter note I have had some conversations with TOG and they may surprise us all..after all they did get the lawsuit in SC combined with their countersuit and had consolidate in a Federal Court in Texas..rather than SC


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## TMPRO (Feb 28, 2007)

Actually Sawgrass has been known to sue end users if they can prove you know it's illegal and they watch all of these boards and have used posts on "another" board to take people to court. So be aware that what you post here may come back to haunt you.

Their patent is not only on the ink itself but on the use of small format inkjet printers to deliver the sublimation inks to paper for transfer purpose. 

They did not do it first but they did patent it first. They have sued all of the competition and so far have one every lawsuit or the other companies gave up and settled including the chemical giant BASF. Sawgrass is relentless and have lawyers just waiting to pounce.

Remember that win or loose it costs you $$$ to fight a lawsuit.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

for the record...sawgrass has not won all lawsuits......one is still working with TOG and TOG was successful in getting the action moved to Texas Fed Court. Next hearing is in Jan I think. It has been moved forward several times


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## TMPRO (Feb 28, 2007)

The TOG lawsuit is the other way around, TOG is suing Sawgrass and of course they counter filed. But you are correct it's not done yet. I hope TOG wins. If they do it will open the doors for others.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Terry...My understanding is we are both right... I think...let me underscore 'think' ... that sawgrass sued TOG in South Carolina. TOG countered with suit in Texas...and for some obscure law...TOG managed to get the two suits combined any moved to a Federal Court in Texas...and that may be why on TOG site the announce they will not ship to SC. IF TOG is successful, I would guess sub ink will drop in price as this might allow others to enter the market. Sadly the two main producers of sub ink other that sawgrass are now owned by sawgrass...I am certainly watching with interest


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## BigBear (Aug 15, 2007)

mobilemaxent said:


> hi, i was wondering if anyone has had any expierance with bulk generic sublimation inks. I bought these inks thinking i could save some money, but after using them, they looked washed out. The inks didn't come with any color profiles. can anyone help, or at least point me in the right direction to getting the inks to look better?


The term "generic" is very appropo. Many years ago, we also had a bit of exposure to them (generic). Not only was a lack of reliable color management a problem, it was compounded by the lack of ink consistency from bottle to bottle.


Fortunately, we were very experienced, so the total lack of communication with the supplier was not the issue it could have been.

As we constantly advise our clients, every business decision has an up and down side. The only practical advice we can offer is, that as you "tweek", to try and get better colors, do change but one thing at a time.


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## mobilemaxent (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you for your input.


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## LeT (Feb 23, 2007)

mobilemaxent said:


> Thanks Charles, I'll have to look into those inks. Where can you get them from?
> By the way, I way gotten pretty close to my control print of artainium ink with the chinese inks. Might be close enough to actually start using these for production. I have a 1280 and I have just been playing with the color control settings. I just can't seem to get the reds as dark as the artainum control print. I guess i'll keep trying. Thanks for the input.


I use TOG ink and have for awhile. I haven't had any problems with the ink itself and any problems I did have, were my own doing. I use the cartridges and save $70.00 vs Artanium.

Besides the lower price, the real plus with TOG is every color, every cartridge is completely empty when it's time to change it. There isn't *ANY* leftover ink! So not only do you get the ink at a better price, you're also using every drop of it!


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Heres a good post on the lawsuit with some history in it.

http://www.fedcirc.us/opinions/06-1190.pdf

Mark


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I suggest to all to usethe legal products( sawgrass) for the same reasons , I suggest you buy a name brand press ( service ). You can count on Sawgrass to be there tomorrow not like some of the others. I bought from a company that sold cheaper inks( didn't know it was wrong at the time), I now will only deal with Sawgrass. The off brand ink started to fade and has caused me a lot of returns. I have re-made several items to protect my name and reputation. The few doolars saved has cost me me several hundred. I will say hind sight is 20/20. Please learn from mistakes and stick with the name brand. ...... JB


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