# What are the best dtg printers from 18000 to 25000?



## infmscloth1ng (Jan 30, 2011)

Can somebody help me im after a good quality resolution dtg printer from around 18000 to 25000 dollars, i have detailed designs with bright colors so quality is a must i will be printing on both black and white garments.


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## Stitch-Up (May 26, 2007)

These were printed on the Neoflex. The EXCELLENT NeoRip Pro took the image file and without any alteration to settings produced the goods. This why it's important to ensure you have the best RIP software


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## infmscloth1ng (Jan 30, 2011)

That looks great can you tell me how long does the ink last for on the garments?


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

It depends a lot on your pretreat and curing techniques. Temp, time, pressure combinations. For bright colors I find that (on dark shirt with white underbase) the first minute should be at light pressure, just the weight of the platen then increase to a medium pressure for 2 minutes. I have heard anything from 330-360 for temp. I tend to use 340 as the colors stay brighter. It is very important that you know the actual temp of the press, they are sometimes off quite a bit. Many printers can print very very well. I also think the rip is very important. The same machine will print differently with a different rip. 
However I think Neoflex produces an excellent printer rip interface. Neo is also very flexible when it comes to expansion or printing to non textile substrates. It takes two to tango. The machine and the rip.


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## Belquette (Sep 12, 2005)

Best can be a subjective topic.

I would suggest sending your artwork to a manufacturer to be printed to see if it's what your expecting. 
Also you can go to trade shows and have your art printed live on various products.

After the print quality meets your standards, next is machine design, production needs and service.

Also ask what large companies now use the particular manufacturers equipment, why and for how long.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Yes, Best is a matter of opinion and there are many factors to consider. Here is a post that I made about my experience with the MOD1, but I wrote quite a bit about why I made my decision on this printer as opposed to a newer model by DTG, Anajet or Brother.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/belquette/t121824.html#post717805

I really don't know a whole lot about the NeoFlex however, trying to get answers out of these people is like pulling teeth. Whatever printer you decide on, don't buy snake oil. Ask questions and make sure they are being answered. Do not let anyone fast talk you with technical jargon because they think you don't know any better. If possible, see the machines in person, bring artwork.


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## Stitch-Up (May 26, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> I really don't know a whole lot about the NeoFlex however, trying to get answers out of these people is like pulling teeth.


I think that's bit harsh when JohnL tried very hard to answer your question within the constraints of a non-disclosure agreement between All American and Kothari Info-Tech Ltd.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Stitch-Up said:


> I think that's bit harsh when JohnL tried very hard to answer your question within the constraints of a non-disclosure agreement between All American and Kothari Info-Tech Ltd.


It wasn't harsh at all .. first of all the thread in question is about *Choosing* a *RIP*, which you cannot with the NeoRip. Neither of them had any business in my opinion even posting since it's not even a choice. It's a proprietary piece of software that only works with a specific hardware platform. And furthermore, since they are bound by a NDA, they have no business inviting discussion where people are going to call them out on their nonsense. Good thing for their NDA, otherwise they might have to explain whey their larger size Lead Screw produces a more vibrant Red on a t-shirt.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Yeah, the only person who seems to have that opinion of All American at this point is Adam..... And I doubt he has actually tried to do any business with them, only publicly tear down Peter at every turn. Check out the other RIP thread, and you can decide for yourself if it is like "pulling teeth".

Coming from someone who has spent many years dealing with MOST of the major DTG suppliers and manufacturers, including TWO stints with All American (the first also involving Belquette), I can say that I had zero problems at all getting allllllll the information I could ever want from the AA crew - they have a larger support staff than most companies I have dealt with, as well as some pretty awesome service and support documentation that has helped us troubleshoot even our DreamJet brand printers, since some of the internals are the same (and they didn't even sell us those printers, but they still helped us figure out some issues we were having). And, as anyone who knows me will quickly point out, I am one of the most difficult people in this industry to please.



TahoeTomahawk said:


> I really don't know a whole lot about the NeoFlex however


..... No kidding.



TahoeTomahawk said:


> Ask questions and make sure they are being answered. Do not let anyone fast talk you with technical jargon because they think you don't know any better. If possible, see the machines in person, bring artwork.


At least Adam and I can agree on this!!!! Don't let people "fast talk" you with overwhelming amounts of technical jargon..... Don't let them try and convince you that heated platens will improve the quality of your printed garments; they won't. Don't let them try and convince you that some sort of "APES system" will make your printer work better - it won't, and in fact, it will probably fry your main board unless you cut the wires or lower the fan speed way down.... Oh, and it also might blow ink all over the delicate insides of your printer......... Don't let them tell you they will be releasing a white ink with no PT necessary, "very soon", or for that matter just avoid anyone who uses the phrase "very soon" more than a couple of times in one meeting. I wish I had never fallen for that crap. Well, live and learn - I am sure the company that BS'd me in the beginning has come a loooong way since then, as have most DTG manufacturers, but these are things you have to look out for, as Adam pointed out.

If you visit some manufacturers, ask them to dismantle their machine or to show you a machine that is in pieces - its amazing what you can learn about the insides of these things.... You know I've actually seen machine wiring that is organized with twist ties and duct tape? No kidding.... Make sure the machine you choose is solid, inside and out, and make sure the company you select makes you feel as comfortable as possible. There is tons of info on these forums, although you will never get a "which machine is best", clear-cut answer - simply too many variables to consider. Start considering "Which DTG printer is best for MY BUSINESS MODEL", and you'll do just fine. Try and read between the lines of all the back-and-forth arguing that we all do, constantly, and glean what is most important to you!


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> It wasn't harsh at all .. first of all the thread in question is about *Choosing* a *RIP*, which you cannot with the NeoRip. Neither of them had any business in my opinion even posting since it's not even a choice. It's a proprietary piece of software that only works with a specific hardware platform. And furthermore, since they are bound by a NDA, they have no business inviting discussion where people are going to call them out on their nonsense. Good thing for their NDA, otherwise they might have to explain whey their larger size Lead Screw produces a more vibrant Red on a t-shirt.


Are you kidding me Adam? I started that thread, not AA, so don't sit here and tell people what the purpose of that thread was, or who has a right to post in it. It was meant to illustrate very SIMPLY and POWERFULLY how drastically different the various RIPS are, when it comes to how they process un-touched artwork. YOU turned it into a "why do you think your's is better" argument, not me or All American or anyone else. You really haven't made a very convincing point in either of these threads, either, as I see nobody agreeing with you except for Mark from Belquette, and maybe Fred (who makes the iProof RIP). Let it go, man.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Justin Walker said:


> Yeah, the only person who seems to have that opinion of All American at this point is Adam..... And I doubt he has actually tried to do any business with them, only publicly tear down Peter at every turn. Check out the other RIP thread, and you can decide for yourself if it is like "pulling teeth".


Justin, you're talking about one thread. That is not a public tear down of peter or All American, I have no reason to.
Look very carefully at what I wrote. You will see my annoyance level go up with every post as he danced around questions and then decided to hide behind his NDA.
Most of people (myself included) look at your thread and think, oh nice.. this Rip is comparing to iproof only to find out that's not true. It's not comparing it at all because it's a complete system. What a crock.

I am all for comparing the Rip to iproof, in fact I'm very curious about other Rips in the DTG market. Had you chose a machine you could load both Rips on to do your comparison then people wouldn't be calling that thread a walking billboard for the NeoFlex. Which is exactly what it is.. and only did we find out the rip only works with his machine after several rounds of evasive answers. I have nothing personal against Peter or All American, but I stand by my comments.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Justin Walker said:


> "why do you think your's is better" argument


Well maybe that's the problem. It wasn't an argument it was a question and a very simple one at that.

Notice how I didn't respond to your posts Justin, because yours made sense. You were showing the features of the Rip, I got that. Peter made a general statement that was wide open for questions. And I'd still like to know how this Rip compares to iProof and whatever Rip anajet and others use as far as print quality using the same print engine, same print head and same inkset.

I can understand why he doesn't want to answer the question though as a manufacturer and instead of NDA, it's more likely because if someones got a 4880 based DTG and they can get the new Rip (neoflex profiles excluded), then why would they shell out 18+ k, for a NeoFlex printer?

I have no affiliations with any manufactures .. do you?


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> I have no affiliations with any manufactures .. do you?


You're gonna ask me that after I've been through nearly every major manufacturer around? Have I EVER stuck with one manufacturer, or do I constantly keep an eye out for whatever is the "best" machine for my business? Heck, even right now I have more than one brand in my shop, so its kinda silly to try and imply that I am biased or "affiliated" with one equipment manufacturer or another.

My only "bias" comes from what works for me, and what doesn't. That's it. I share my experiences here on the forums, as well as in person when people visit my shop - what people do with that information is up to them.

If anyone thinks I am tied to any one manufacturer or company, even after all I've shown and posted over the years - well, there's not much I can say in response.  Believe whatever you want. However, if Brian's forums were still online you could look back and find people making similar insinuations (or outright accusations) when I used to discuss the Flexi-Jet frequently, then again when I owned the Kornit and was discussing that machine frequently, and now we're back on it with the Neoflex....... haha its a cute trick people like to pull.

No, aside from a completely separate software project I am working on, which All American may eventually begin offering (I have spoken with many different equipment manufacturers about distributing for my software company, and several have expressed interest, not just AA), I have no particular affiliation with any particular company, regarding DTG printers.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> I can understand why he doesn't want to answer the question though as a manufacturer and instead of NDA, it's more likely because if someones got a 4880 based DTG and they can get the new Rip (neoflex profiles excluded), then why would they shell out 18+ k, for a NeoFlex printer?


I had TWO other 4880 based machines in my shop prior to picking up my Neoflex printers, and after visiting All American and evaluating their systems very carefully, I still ended up getting the two Neoflex printers to add to our stable. Each system offers something completely different to our production facility, which I could not have gotten if I simply "switched RIP's" on the DreamJets.

Take it for what it's worth - that was simply my ultimate conclusion, based on lots of hands on time with both printer models.


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## tshirtguru629 (Feb 3, 2012)

Now that we're in 2012 and the ISS shows are going on, anything new with DTGs to report. I haven't made the ISS show yet, but thought maybe some additional breakthroughs have been made to DTG printers to make them more affordable to buy and operate.


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## Pvasquez (Feb 19, 2011)

Justin Walker said:


> I had TWO other 4880 based machines in my shop prior to picking up my Neoflex printers, and after visiting All American and evaluating their systems very carefully, I still ended up getting the two Neoflex printers to add to our stable. Each system offers something completely different to our production facility, which I could not have gotten if I simply "switched RIP's" on the DreamJets.
> 
> Take it for what it's worth - that was simply my ultimate conclusion, based on lots of hands on time with both printer models.


Justin I'm really considering getting a NeoFlex due to that I can't seem to keep up with the volume of work coming in, Brother Graffiti and a Kornit are on my Radar as well but not sure they would work with the process I'm doing. Back to my point, I have 2 Dreamjets possibly a 3rd if I don't move forward with one of the above printers mentioned. Both machines are similar model the DreamJet has a purge feature does the Neoflex have this? I like the ease of being able to get to the pump and keep everything clean not to mention how the ink is away from the machine again easy access if I want to clean the lines etc. how does the printer print better ? Is it the Rip? I thought they both use Kathari or is it different? Any insight would be much appreciated, oh yeah one of the machines was one you had but the second one had wires pulled and torn have not been able to recover it so I'm not sure if I can get that one back online again just too busy to mess with it.


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## spoonh2b (Feb 7, 2012)

the neoflex is on my want list


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## JohnL (Nov 23, 2010)

The NeoRip does very well same for the NeoFlex printer. Due to the specific pairing and our many hours spent making the pairing work, this is why time and time again produces stunning results.

This specific version of the rip is proprietary to our system. It does not mean nobody else is using the same rip elsewhere.

I'm very sorry I am unable to post specifics but if you were to see the System in action you would understand. What I can say some of the advantage comes from being able multiple shirts or very long shirts at one time.

Adam to be completely honest with you, out of the 5 different rips I've worked with, NeoRip pro has been hands down the best rip when it came to garment printing. It was also the easiest to use after learning what each function was. This is why we chose to invest the time into completely switching over.

You shouldn't ask us at AA why you are unable to purchase the rip, but the manufacturers of your machine why you can't purchase the rip. I can't sell you a working version of our rip just the same as I can't install Mac OS on my PC. It just wouldn't work.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Pvasquez said:


> I have 2 Dreamjets possibly a 3rd if I don't move forward with one of the above printers mentioned. Both machines are similar model the DreamJet has a purge feature does the Neoflex have this? I like the ease of being able to get to the pump and keep everything clean not to mention how the ink is away from the machine again easy access if I want to clean the lines etc. how does the printer print better ? Is it the Rip? I thought they both use Kathari or is it different? Any insight would be much appreciated, oh yeah one of the machines was one you had but the second one had wires pulled and torn have not been able to recover it so I'm not sure if I can get that one back online again just too busy to mess with it.


Hey Pablo!

The DreamJet is a solid printer with some definite positives - there is a reason I worked with a few industry associates many years ago to bring that machine to market when it was still a 4880 sitting on an aluminum box "cabinet"; through a long process we worked to tweak the machine to our liking, before ultimately abandoning the project. You are correct that the DreamJet RIP is made by the same company as the NeoRIP PRO - I was a HUGE fan of it on the DJ machines, and I am an even bigger fan of the version that All American has worked to adapt to their printing system.

Some of the differences are tangible changes to the system that are currently proprietary to All American - to my understanding, this includes the improved scan width feature and a few other subtle details. Most importantly, the custom ICC profiles and ink limit curves that the guys at All American have developed have really advanced my expectation of what is possible with DTG printing. On another level, we were not really able to get the DJ machines dialed in to print in bi-directional mode until after we encountered the crew at AA, who showed us a great deal about how the printers function on a fundamental level. At the end of the day, we got GREAT results on the DJ printers, and we get FANTASTIC results on the Neoflex printers; the subtle difference comes mostly from the additional changes and additions that AA has made to the RIP system.

My main reason for looking into alternative equipment at the time was the fact that, when we would have the occasional equipment malfunction and would need to perform some sort of maintenance, the information that was available at the time was limited to obscure diagrams done in partial English and partial Chinese, which we were sent and had to figure out how it applied to our machines. Subsequently, whenever something went wrong we would find ourselves cannibalizing parts from one machine to feed the other (one of which came to us very early on, after having been physically damaged in shipping) - some of the early sensor issues required us to "cut and splice" some wires, according to the provided diagrams. Also, due to the nature of the wiring in the machine and the way the print bed moved, some of the internal wires were sheared by the corner of the moving print bed which we taped with electrical tape at one point, but never got around to fully repairing.

All in all the machines showed us how well an Epson based printer could print, and led us back toward the "lower priced" machines (after moving away from the Kornit at the time) - there was simply not enough support from the manufacturer (the distributors did the best they could, but information to them was limited as well) and when anything went wrong we found ourselves having to investigate some pretty serious hardware (that thing is built like a tank, which I love!). Oddly enough, that was the same reason my partners and I had chosen not to pursue the machines after we invested so much time and money to help develop them in the early stages - we recognized early on that we would have long term communication and logistical support issues with an overseas manufacturer, and we wanted more direct control over the ongoing development of the system.

An additional advantage that convinced me to go with the Neoflex printers is the continuous production we can achieve, due to the moving print head design - even if quality were equal between the two, there are several built in features to facilitate in streamlining the production process.

Oh, and I almost forgot - the Purge button was something I LOVED on the DJ machines! It was easy to run ink or cleaning solution aggressively through the system, and the enhanced waste tank in the bottom of the machine was very reminiscent of the Kornit waste tank. However, with the closed ink system on the Neoflex I find that I don't need to purge ink like I used to with the open (bulk) system, so while I definitely thought I would miss that feature I have learned that it did little more than help me pour money down the drain. haha With the proper maintenance, consistent printing practices and a decent printing environment, I am able to minimize the amount of ink I send down into the waste tank. If you have any more questions please let me know - like I said I was / am a fan of the DJ machines, and they definitely hold a special place in my heart; I guess I just needed a little more direct involvement with the manufacturers to help educate me in a way that really helped me in the DTG printing game.


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