# Best DTG Printer on the market, anyone?



## AlexDD6 (Mar 13, 2008)

Hello eveybody. I've been researching info on these DTG printers and all I have to do is decide which machine I should buy. I've seen videos, reviews from "actual" owners, sales representatives that have found me in this forum contacting with private messages to check out their printers, etc.

I've learned a lot the last couple of weeks reading here and following everybodys stories and experiences with their own shops.

But please, anyone who owns a DTG printer, can you tell me is it worth it??

Now I've heard a lot of stories from Us Screens so I dont need to hear more from them, but if you do own one of the new models let us know if its been a good investment. Also from anybody else who owns any other brand, please help me out.

Now Im not expecting to go big in a while so all I need is a printer that can help me print my own designs and do small jobs like from 1-500 or maybe 1k shirts the most for schools and stuff like that.

I need to know if your printer does OK with black shirts and how quickly they wash out.

Thanks everybody!


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## Peta (Jan 25, 2007)

In our eyes the T2 is the worlds best dtg-printer. Absolutely not when it was released but nowdays I have buyed alot of used T2´s and refurbished them. My favorite 

If you will print 1-100 the small epson-based printers is the way to go, but when you speak of 500-1K series I should consider a Kornit. Our main business is 1-5 prints of the same image, and sometimes up to 25 or 100 in rare cases.

How well a print lasts on a black shirts has nothing to do with the printer brand. It´s all in the preatreatment process, ink and curing. Our prints fades from 0-5% on first wash, then nothing visual on the next 10-15 washes.


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## ivancuriel (Dec 3, 2007)

Peta said:


> In our eyes the T2 is the worlds best dtg-printer. Absolutely not when it was released but nowdays I have buyed alot of used T2´s and refurbished them. My favorite
> 
> If you will print 1-100 the small epson-based printers is the way to go, but when you speak of 500-1K series I should consider a Kornit. Our main business is 1-5 prints of the same image, and sometimes up to 25 or 100 in rare cases.
> 
> How well a print lasts on a black shirts has nothing to do with the printer brand. It´s all in the preatreatment process, ink and curing. Our prints fades from 0-5% on first wash, then nothing visual on the next 10-15 washes.



Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying the image is completely gone after 10-15 washes?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I believe Ivan is talking about noticing fading of the print, not the print dissappearing 

I own the HM1 and love it. I did alot of research before buying my machine and made sure the machine I bought would fit my business plan. I agree with Ivan that it is an art to get good prints as far as pretreatment, printing and curing. If all of these are not done properly you will get a poor print. I think any of the machines have the ability to do a good job it just really depends on what features you like the most.

The Hm1 has a couple of extra features that the others do not have such as white ink agitator. That one I really like as I never have to shake my ink. I am really happy with my machine 

Before you buy go see them in action, the different ones you are looking at. If you just receive samples from the companies you have no idea how they got the result they did whether it is a good result or a bad result, so it is best to see them for yourself. Hope this helps


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## ivancuriel (Dec 3, 2007)

sunnydayz said:


> I believe Ivan is talking about noticing fading of the print, not the print dissappearing
> 
> I own the HM1 and love it. I did alot of research before buying my machine and made sure the machine I bought would fit my business plan. I agree with Ivan that it is an art to get good prints as far as pretreatment, printing and curing. If all of these are not done properly you will get a poor print. I think any of the machines have the ability to do a good job it just really depends on what features you like the most.
> 
> ...



I think you mean peter, im the DTG noobie here lol. But thank you for the reply. I'm looking into a DTG printer to upgrade from inkjet heat transfers.


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## Gunslinger (Aug 3, 2007)

No, Ivan ... Peter just means there is typically a slight fade from the first wash, but no noticable fading after that. With our T-Jet 3 (and I just posted an example on a black Bamboo t-shirt), we have had tees that look the same after 20+ washes.

Alex ... with the exception of the economy taking a dump, I have printed around 2000 shirts over the last year or so ... shirts of all colors ... I love Direst-to-Garment printing, and have no regrets. But, I think it would be difficult to determine what is the best machine on the market. If, there was an easy answer to that, and a perfect machine ... then we would all dump our existing ones and purchase the perfect model.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

oops your Right Ivan hehe  Sorry....


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Yep that was my point exactly Michael  Any of the machines have the potential to be great machines as long as the owner of the machine takes the time and learns it correctly  I think they are all built with similar technology (except of course the brother and the kornit) therefore they are all pretty much capable of the same things, its the operators that really make a difference


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## AlexDD6 (Mar 13, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> Any of the machines have the potential to be great machines as long as the owner of the machine takes the time and learns it correctly  I think they are all built with similar technology (except of course the brother and the kornit) therefore they are all pretty much capable of the same things, its the operators that really make a difference


So your dark t-shirts come out pretty good? I mean, I understand all about the operator really making a difference and the process of pre-treatment is crucial so that the design dont fade. I guess what Im trying to really find out is... 

What machine is less problematic??... since all printers have the potential to be great machines.

I see that you are really happy with your Hm1, and I really haven't seen any posts from you that are negative towards your machine.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Thats because my machine runs really great and is pretty problem free. I have shirts that my husband wears that have been washed 20 or more times and still look great. I cant speak for the other machines as I havent run them, but I think if you have a good understanding of the machine before you buy it and have a schedule for maintenance and stick to it, learn everything you possible can before your purchase than you should do well. I think alot of problems arise from not being informed about your purchase before you jump in.

I went to trade shows and watched them all print, got samples from them all, that I seen printed in front of me including the pretreatment, took them home did wash tests and did hours upon hours of research for months on end and then finally made my decision on what I would buy. I was completely confident in my decision and put everythng into learning everything once I got my machine. I did not sell any garments from my machine for a month until I was confident I had a good product going out. In the long run this has all paid off for me as I have a smooth running machine and a quality product to sell my customers.

Hope this helps some in what you should do before purchasing  and gives you some direction to make the best choice for yourself.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Hi Bobbie! Is it too much if I ask for a video (from you or maybe a link) showing your HM1 printing on black shirts?? (with pretreatment if possible)


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I am working on a video for Rodney, but I have been really busy, I am hoping to have it dont by next week. There will be a link as soon as I am done with it and Rodney posts it


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

thank you in advance for that Bobbie. You're really helpful. I also notice the Moderator tag you have now, you're really an asset to this forum. (I wonder where Solmu is, have'nt seen his posts lately, although I don't frequent the screen printing forums)!


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for that Byron, its nice to be appreciated


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## AlexDD6 (Mar 13, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> Thats because my machine runs really great and is pretty problem free. I have shirts that my husband wears that have been washed 20 or more times and still look great.


Thats good to hear, this is a new machine you bought a couple months ago and is going great for you. Im so happy to hear that. Plus you have given me the best advices I need in order to make a decision. I think you are right as far as learning to give proper maintenance to the printers, after all, its a huge investment to let it just break down.

Im looking forward to see that video!! Cant wait to see the printer in real-time action and how long it takes you print a black shirt. Did you bought one of those pre-treatment machines that do the process for you? or you do it by hand with the spray? Is it worth it to spend another comple of grand$ if you have the same result by hand. Is there a time difference using the machine than by hand? Sorry for all these questions  

Does anybody knows when will be a trade show in Florida again?? Thanks


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

Brother, hands down. I've run 2 different printers over a 5 year span and had very few problems. Workhorse machines, most of the T-jets are more hobby printers. You will find less complaints about the Brother and less threats of lawsuits.

It does what it was designed to do, print, and keep printing.


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## AlexDD6 (Mar 13, 2008)

mk162 said:


> Brother, hands down. I've run 2 different printers over a 5 year span and had very few problems. Workhorse machines, most of the T-jets are more hobby printers. You will find less complaints about the Brother and less threats of lawsuits.
> 
> It does what it was designed to do, print, and keep printing.


yeah, I've heard Borther is really good and people have reported just minimal problems about it. Does it print in black shirts? Im looking for a printer that does that so I can match with others and finally make a decision. Im still going to a trade show and get some samples anyway.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

AlexDD6 said:


> Does anybody knows when will be a trade show in Florida again?? Thanks


Next week (Thursday through Saturday), there is the ISA Show in Orlando. Hard to tell from the exhibitor list exactly what machines will be there because this is a large format and sign trade show. However, most of the manufacturers will have distributors at this show. It looks like I am going to the show on Friday. Feel free to contact me if you are going to the show that day.

By the way, the master distributor for the HM-1 machine is located in Tampa. Check out SWF East. You can always go down there and see the machine as well. Go another 30 minutes west to Clearwater and you can see the Flexi-Jet machine as well. Check their site out - Specialty Purpose Printers. So, between the ISA Show and a couple of short drives...you could see most of the machines.

Good Luck.

Mark


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

mk162 said:


> most of the T-jets are more hobby printers. You will find less complaints about the Brother and less threats of lawsuits.


Ouch Brad, it is Good Friday.


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## AlexDD6 (Mar 13, 2008)

DAGuide said:


> Next week (Thursday through Saturday), there is the ISA Show in Orlando. Hard to tell from the exhibitor list exactly what machines will be there because this is a large format and sign trade show. However, most of the manufacturers will have distributors at this show. It looks like I am going to the show on Friday. Feel free to contact me if you are going to the show that day.
> 
> By the way, the master distributor for the HM-1 machine is located in Tampa. Check out SWF East. You can always go down there and see the machine as well. Go another 30 minutes west to Clearwater and you can see the Flexi-Jet machine as well. Check their site out - Specialty Purpose Printers. So, between the ISA Show and a couple of short drives...you could see most of the machines.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark!! Im definitely going to the trade show. I'll contact you if i decide to go friday, depends on the job, if not most likely will go saturday with my wife. Also I will be viviting these places you just told me it wont take me nothing to get there and probably I can get t-shirt samples from them. Thanks!! You guys have been awsome helping me out!


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Alex,

Not a problem. Ask for Don C. (the manager for dtg) or Bill S. (good tech) at SWF East. You will probably get to meet either Mark or Brett (the two engineers behind the Flexi-Jet) when you go to Belquette's office. You location is definitely a plus for you.

Best of luck.

Mark


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

A show probably is the best thing to check out. Although it is sometimes tough to cut through the sales BS.

The Brother doesn't print on blacks, nor will it ever. When they do master darks, it will be a new system, not a retrofit.

Mark, I only report the facts.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

mk162 said:


> Brother, hands down. I've run 2 different printers over a 5 year span and had very few problems. Workhorse machines, most of the T-jets are more hobby printers. You will find less complaints about the Brother and less threats of lawsuits.
> 
> It does what it was designed to do, print, and keep printing.


It is great that you like your brother, everyone has their preference. But to call the other machines hobby machines is simply unrealistic as it actually takes alot more knowledge to run the other machines.

I myself consider my machine very professional and I have absolutely no limitations on what I can print for my customers. I own the HM1 and all of the jobs I do are totally professional, and not ordered by people just buying garments as a hobby.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

Um, read my post, I said "most of the t-jets" you replaced my words with "all of the other printers." Big difference. The HM1 is a faster printer than most other epson based printers.

Next time before you jump all over me, read my post correctly.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

You did state t-jets but pretty much all of the printers that print white are based on the same technology. That was why I was responding because other members who are doing research will most likely see it that way. I also dont think the tjets are hobby printers, unfortunately us screen has had some machine problems lately but the t-jet 1 and t-jet 2 were some of the first dtg machines that were out there and they were good machines. I dont think it is right for people who own other machines to bash a company that is clearly having issues at this time. 

Only us screen and the owners know what is going on between them and it is not fair to jump on the band wagon of bashing just because others are having problems and you see an opportunity. 

I feel bad for those that have issues but this clearly should not turn into a my machine is better than your machine issue. I think its great to hear feedback of what your experiences are with your machine. However if you dont own a t-jet, it is best to base your opinions on what machine you know.


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## Peta (Jan 25, 2007)

mk162 said:


> Um, read my post, I said "most of the t-jets" you replaced my words with "all of the other printers." Big difference. The HM1 is a faster printer than most other epson based printers.
> 
> Next time before you jump all over me, read my post correctly.


Hmm, so we as T-jet owners are not pros then? I have 4 employes and 2 of them only works with T-jet jobs. Our main business is printing with T-jet. Maybe we had chosed the brother if we just had white garment but 80% of our orders is dark, black or colored garment. And I don´t think a printer who runs 8-10 hours/day is a hobby printer.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

Well, the printer itself is a hobby printer, any machine that prints 7-8 shirts per hour is hard to make a profit printing in any quantities. It may fit your business model, but not ours. We screen print as our main form of business, so dark shirts get screened. Also, there are so many different print heads and platforms that these printers are built from there will be differences between the models.

I had a very good friend of mine that bought a t-jet, a red one when they first came out. He sent it back and had to use his lawyer to get Fresener to live up to his obligations. That speaks volumes. He bought a Brother. There have been countless people that have done the same.



> Only us screen and the owners know what is going on between them and it is not fair to jump on the band wagon of bashing just because others are having problems and you see an opportunity.


I am by no way "jumping on the bandwagon." Yeah, the company is having issues, but if they dry up, can you still get it serviced? What happens to tech support? These problems have been going on since the first day US Screen started selling the T-jet. It works fine for some, horrible for others. People want something they can rely on.

Brother is THE most stable of ANY company selling garment printers. That has to count for something. It's a guarantee they will be there for you in the long run.


You guys are bent that I called "most t-jets" hobby printers. Get over it.


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## AlexDD6 (Mar 13, 2008)

Peta said:


> 80% of our orders is dark, black or colored garment.


I saw your website, love your designs, pretty cool stuff. Love the Space Invaders shirt. LOL


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## Peta (Jan 25, 2007)

Brad, how do you print a full color design on a black shirt, 1-25 shirts ordered? I think you have to buy that service from someone else that has an Epson-based printer or an Kornit 

Yes, you can make money on a printer that prints 5-10-20 black shirts/hour. It suits our business model perfect and if you want to do long runs on black shirts, DTG is NOT the way to go. 

Why do you compare the red (1st) T-jet with todays Brother? Is it because the red did not do white from the start?! I also have a red printer (number 1 in Sweden) upgraded to white ink and runs the same hours as the newer T2.

If a printer who runs under 20 black shirts/hours is a hobby printer we have to count in all Epson-based printers AND Kornit 932 as a hobby printer.

Yes, you can call T-Jet a hobby printer if you want, but I will never call a "white-garment-only"-printer for anything else than a good newbie-printer. If I want a good printer to do only white shirts, I´d buy a fully refurbished T-jet from Equipmentzone with a 7-colorsystem for $7,495. Best ROI ever.


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