# Comparing Hotmark 70 to Spectra Eco Film.



## Yuchan (Sep 11, 2007)

I remember searching for what people had to say about hotmark 70 and I recall not finding much other than "i use hotmark, its good" "i use something else, its good" etc. 

So, I happened to buy some Hotmark 70 along with my new oracal shipment, and thought i'd share a direct comparison. 

*Here we go*

Fluor Orange Hotmark 70 from signwarehouse = $2.36 a foot for its 15"x11' roll. 
Grey Eco Film from imprintables = $2.33 a foot for a 15"x15' roll.

The first things I notice from weeding two exact cuts is that the Eco Film has a VERY 
sticky backing (which I already knew) while the hotmark has practically no stick. 

I guess some may like the extra stickiness for placement. 

The backing on the hotmark is more rigid (stays flat) while the Eco Film backing feels
and acts more like vinyl. Lets just say the hotmark is more likely to give you a plastic cut. 










One thing I noticed a few days ago is that Eco Film is harder to weed if your
design is over a foot long. The backing is so sticky that the whole damn thing
is a crumpled mess as you weed. You literally have to fight it for big 2inch weeds. 

The Hotmark on the other hand, because of no stick and rigid backing, weeds easily. 

*But let me explain what I mean by easy.* I think that the hotmark is easy in that
you could weed out a section, wait till it breaks off, and continue weeding without a problem. 

It does break easier, but its a no hassle process because your big weed is 
not "crumple crumple crunch cruch twang~!" as you get the pieces out. 

The Eco Film wont break, so you either plot weeding lines or you wrestle with the material to the end. 

*Let me stress that weeding performance is NOT an issue, the materials just feel different
and probably fall into the field of personal preference. *

The real deal is how it feels on the clothing : )

*On to the real thing: *

The Eco Film is supposed to be *Medium @ 305 for 10-15s. *
Hotmark is *Medium-Heavy @ 300-350 for 15-20s *

I'm doing both at *semi heavy pressure @ 310 for 15s. (8 on the pheonix phire)* 

The Eco Film peeled off hot as usual. I tried the edge of the hotmark and agreed with the other posts to peel cold. I peeled cold and it worked just fine!

*NOTE: The torn edge on the top of the Hotmark is from the edge of the Eco Film backing being laid under it (oops). *









Just for fun I decided to keep trying the hotmark:
Hotmark at *330 for 15s*: Still no peel hot, the edges begin to come off.

Finally, Hotmark at *350 for 15s* and the same pressure I got a clean hot peel. The backing came right off : )

Moral of the story? Just peel cold! 

But the real question is hotmark vs eco film. 

They both squeak the same . But the hotmark is definitely thinner. When I put my hand behind the vinyl I can feel it is lighter and less rigid. 

The hotmark definitely bends better. It feels much better to me. 

I've been trying to take pictures to illustrate this point but the bends look the same, but the RESISTANCE is completely different. 
The hotmark feels more like a shirt. *crumpling when it should*, while the eco film feels more like a band of tape resisting the crumple. 
I'm hoping that makes sense because most of you have handled vinyl before.

Josh mentioned it is unfair to call the Eco Film a band of tape, and it is. Thats just bad advertising on my part. The materials look the same in the photos so I did not know how to explain the difference. Eco Film is thicker, and feels different : ). 


















I mean its simple. Put some gauze on a shirt, crumple it. Put some tape on a shirt, crumple it. Moo. 

*warning: pure unadulterated opinion based on initial press*
In conclusion, I'm surprised by the Hotmark 70. I will buy it from now on. Its slightly harder to apply due to the lack of sticky backing
(might move when the teflon sheet goes on there) and it doesnt peel off the backing as easily (so it must be done cold)
but after that there sure is a difference. Let me know if I left something out, or if you sense some bias. I have nothing to gain!

Let me update this by saying that Eco Film is VERY easy to apply. Josh explained how it is foolproof, and it certianly seems to be! 
*I can not imagine EVER having a problem with applying Eco Film. * 

Josh also mentioned that other advantages of Eco Film are Durability. 
That large prints of Hotmark wrinkle over 5+ washes. I will see if my print wrinkles but it will take 5 washes 

I'll update when I wash them.


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## Yuchan (Sep 11, 2007)

*Oh, and the little fingers and such pressed fine with the hotmark even though it doesnt peel as lightly. *










The fingers are a little less than a milimeter wide.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I like the hotmark 70 much better than any other vinyl. I wish I could get it in a 19 inch roll, but if thats the only problem then that's not to bad. .... JB


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

JB try the multicut from Transfer Papers and Sublimation Inks at Joto it is great. Not saying Hotmark isn't, but multicut comes in 20" rolls. They are next day shipping to you.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Very nice write up & comparison - however I have a few more issues that come into play 

When comparing the materials, I don't think its fair to compare EcoFilm to a band of tape (it is actually quite soft).

The EcoFilm is 80 microns thick which is much less than many materials, but the Hotmark 70 is about 65 microns. The reason EcoFilm is thicker is primarily to have better opacity or coverage when applying the white color to a red or dark colored t-shirt or 100% polyester.

The Hotmark 70 does cut and weed very easily as does Eco.

As far as application goes the Ecofilm is easier to apply. It's dwell time is about half of the Hotmark 70 and you can peel the backing immediately - rather than waiting for it to cool. This is especially helpful when doing a two color application and/or high production environments.

Despite all of the this the main advantage of EcoFilm over Hotmark 70 is DURABILITY. From my experience, the Hotmark 70 tends to wrinkle when laundered especially if it is covering a larger area. I think you'll notice this on the samples that you pressed. Can you launder them about 5 times and then 10 times and post up a picture? (I've attempted to attach a picture of our testing) We noticed the wrinkling after 3 washes.

Another minor issue that I noticed in our testing is that with Hotmark 70 - if you are in a hot or humid environment the mylar backing tends to stick to the top platen when you open your heat press. Since it is a cold peel material this peels up the corners of your applied design and sometimes ruins it or requires a second hit. So this means that it is necessary to use a teflon sheet all of the time.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I've not experienced the wrinkleing or the mylar sticking. I will keep a eye out closer and do a few more test myself. I thank you Josh for your comments. This can help all of us out in the future. This is what the forums is all about . Thanks again. ....... JB


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## Yuchan (Sep 11, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> Very nice write up & comparison - however I have a few more issues that come into play
> 
> When comparing the materials, I don't think its fair to compare EcoFilm to a band of tape (it is actually quite soft).
> 
> ...


Yes the Eco Film is definitely very easy to apply. (as you told me when I bought it!) The backing comes right off at 10s hot peel. I cant imagine EVER having a problem applying the Eco Film! 

And i'm sorry, its true calling it a band of tape is unfair. I just had so much trouble describing the difference I didnt know what to do! Its definitely there, but they LOOK so similar. 

I'm going to go ahead and edit the post, and add that info. 

I will post an update after 5-10 washes. This is making me think I need to press a larger non square design to test correctly.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Have you tried ThermoFlex Plus or Multicut. I would be interested in seeing how they compare to the Hotmark 70. I use ThermoFlex and love it, which I've heard is very similar to Multicut.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Rusty I have got both Thermoflex Plus and Multicut sitting here beside me and on a shirt you cannot tell which is which. I use multicut simply because it comes in 20" width for virtually the same price as thermoflex plus which you know is 15" width. I cannot compare them to hotmark as I have never tried it, but if it is only 15" wide I won't be using it as the 5" difference makes a huge difference for what I use it for.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

theflowerboxx said:


> Rusty I have got both Thermoflex Plus and Multicut sitting here beside me and on a shirt you cannot tell which is which. I use multicut simply because it comes in 20" width for virtually the same price as thermoflex plus which you know is 15" width. I cannot compare them to hotmark as I have never tried it, but if it is only 15" wide I won't be using it as the 5" difference makes a huge difference for what I use it for.


Yeah, I really wish the ThermoFlex came in 20" rolls. I use ThermoFlex because I can pick it up down the road. I don't have to pay shipping and can get it on demand. So after adding in the shipping for multicut, it would probably come out about the same.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I use the hotmark 70 because it has treated me pretty good. I also can buy local and save on the shipping. I pan to try the multicut soon. .... JB


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

i've never used hotmark, but have used a combination of thermoflex and multicut for the past 4 or 5 years - and now stick pretty much to the multicut because of the wider widths and a great working relationship with joto. i have no local source of supply for either so shipping is a factor for me either way. i've pressed large expanses of each material, both in testing and in reality, and have experienced no wrinkling even after multitudes of washes. they both have the sticky backing that i prefer for both weeding and placement purposes, and both peel hot which is an advantage to me as i do a lot of multi-color applications. not waiting for cool down is a real time saver and doesn't stretch the shirt fabric like cold peel typically does (the glittercut is an exception, it has to cold peel so if i use it, it's always the last color i press  ) opacity is great - i've done a lot of white and lights on dark color backgrounds and have never had an issue with color bleeding thru. the hand is wonderful - it's on all of my workshirts, worn daily, and i never even know it's there. it does all i ask of it - and that's what counts!


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

JoshEllsworth said:


> Very nice write up & comparison - however I have a few more issues that come into play
> 
> When comparing the materials, I don't think its fair to compare EcoFilm to a band of tape (it is actually quite soft).
> 
> ...


 
This is exactly what mine looks like and I even got the guy that sold it to me to press a shirt this past weekend so i could wash test his to see if it was just me and it wasn't, his looks the same.

No more money down the drain for me. Going with something from Imprintables


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## Yuchan (Sep 11, 2007)

martinwoods said:


> This is exactly what mine looks like and I even got the guy that sold it to me to press a shirt this past weekend so i could wash test his to see if it was just me and it wasn't, his looks the same.
> 
> No more money down the drain for me. Going with something from Imprintables


Yeah I definitely don't use the hotmark on larger prints. It does indeed wrinkle. It is too bad because it feels much better.

Thats too bad they don't let you edit old posts. I should confirm this fact up there.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I wish I had know that before I had to buy a whole roll for a few names. The names also are wrinkled and they are on the left chest.

I was just hoping to save on shipping and find a local supplier for things I need in a hurry.
Guess not.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Good to know this about the Hotmark 70. I'll glady stick with ThermoFlex which has proven to be quality vinyl.


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## mickipke (Jul 5, 2006)

Guess I'm just spoiled. I LOVE the Spectra Eco Film. Tried some of the Thermoflex I had laying around the other day and went back to the Eco Film. I wish it came in wider widths also, but for the ease of use it is the greatest I've tried. When doing the front and back of shirts, the hot peel is definately the best. No waiting, just peel, turn it over and print and peel again. Don't much like weeding the Eco Film as well as the regular Spectra Cut II, but I guess you can't have everything. Imprintables Warehouse always comes through for me.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I just got some eco-film and plan to test against Hotmark and multicut. I plan to let all know my feelings soon. I will tell you that the eco-film has a brighter look in the same colors. I can tell the difference between the white vinyl. ...... JB


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## astromark (Jun 18, 2007)

I have to say I have been incredibly impressed with ThermoFlex and with MultiCut. I've used Siser's Easy Weed and Hotmark and Eco Film and Stahl's Thermo Film and Fashion FIlm. While I am impressed with ThermoFlex an Multi Cut, I can not in any way say the same about the others. Hotmark wrinkled after one wash and dry, Thermo Film is thicker and heavier on the garment. Easy Weed is great as a hot peel, but it is still a little thick. I was excited about Eco Film and the variety of colors available (including Stahl's Fashion Film) until I used it. I was completely underwhelmed. The first thing I thought was how it felt like a plastic bag, both as I was weeding and after application on the shirt. The extra thickness of the material does not make it more opaque, I applied burgandy on a white T and you can the white shirt come through in areas of the Eco Film. I personally feel like I am giving my customers a better product with Thermo Flex or Multi Cut - after all, I don't care how easy it is for me to weed or apply if a customer is unhappy. Isn't that what we should all be concerned with?


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

I agree Mark, those are the 2 best I have found too. Multicut is my choice simply because it comes wider and the majority of my designs are 9 inches wide so I can get 2 of them from the same length I would only get 1 from thermoflex.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

I don't think its fair to compare eco-film to the feel of a plastic bag. I have had the majority of customers rave about how soft it is on the garment - with some saying it feels like screen printing. Now I do understand that if you hold materials side by side you can notice differences, but the Eco-Film is not a thick product like it is being portrayed - I have a ton of customers who use this in high volumes on softer garments like american apparel. I also have a fair share who use it on athletic apparel and performance garments with great results.

And production factors do come into play for a lot of mid to higher volume users, so I don't think they should be dismissed. The dwell times, application temperatures, ease of mylar releasing and number of steps vary between all of these films, as does the price.

As far as the opacity goes, this is not the norm so I would like to explore it further to find out what happened - I have applied to all kinds of fabric with great coverage. The only garment that gave me an issue was a improperly sublimated soccer jersey, where I experienced dye migration / strike through. And every single film that I tried on this uniform failed except the Stahls thermofilm. I did try all of the brands mentioned.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I totally agree Josh ! I reiceved the Eco Film amd it weeded and applied like a dream. I have always said how great Hotmark is, but this eco film has stolen my heart. I was doing a 20 shirt order with 2 colors. I used the Eco film and tacked the first color down and then put the second layer down the full dwell time and the shirts turned out great. i save about 5 minutes a shirt do to Eco film being hot peel,and the lower dwell time. I feel that I saved 100 minutes on this project. This Eco film is going to increases my productivity and that will increase my bottom line. I'm glad you suggested, I try this product. i will be ordering more soon. i never thought , I would stop using Hotmark. I think the feel of this vinyl after is applied is great and fells like sccreen print or plastisol transfers. i just wanted to add my opinion to the list. ..... JB


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> I have had the majority of customers rave about how soft it is on the garment - with some saying it *feels like screen printing*.


I've heard this before and it bugs me. As somebody who is both a screen printer and uses vinyl, there is NO vinyl that feels like screen printing. Unless you are saying it as you would say "Equal tastes like sugar." It may be somewhat similar and sometimes useful as an alternative to the real thing, but vinyl will NEVER be confused with screen printing by anybody that knows anything about garment decoration.

And to imply it in order to sell more vinyl is being deceitful in my opinion. I know COEDS just made the claim too, and I'm going to guess that he's not a screen printer.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

COEDS said:


> I totally agree Josh ! I reiceved the Eco Film amd it weeded and applied like a dream. I have always said how great Hotmark is, but this eco film has stolen my heart. I was doing a 20 shirt order with 2 colors. I used the Eco film and tacked the first color down and then put the second layer down the full dwell time and the shirts turned out great. i save about 5 minutes a shirt do to Eco film being hot peel,and the lower dwell time. I feel that I saved 100 minutes on this project. This Eco film is going to increases my productivity and that will increase my bottom line. I'm glad you suggested, I try this product. i will be ordering more soon. i never thought , I would stop using Hotmark. I think the feel of this vinyl after is applied is great and fells like sccreen print or plastisol transfers. i just wanted to add my opinion to the list. ..... JB


It's not just Eco Film. Most all the good quality vinyls are hot peel, and most were being produced long before Imprintables decided to come out with Eco Film. They came out with Eco Film trying to compete with the likes of ThermoFlex and MultiCut because they were having so much trouble with their line of SpectraCut II vinyl. So any of the hot peel quality vinyls out there will help you speed up your production, when compared to the cold peel vinyls such as Hotmark and SpectraCut II.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

rusty said:


> I've heard this before and it bugs me. As somebody who is both a screen printer and uses vinyl, there is NO vinyl that feels like screen printing. Unless you are saying it as you would say "Equal tastes like sugar." It may be somewhat similar and sometimes useful as an alternative to the real thing, but vinyl will NEVER be confused with screen printing by anybody that knows anything about garment decoration.
> 
> And to imply it in order to sell more vinyl is being deceitful in my opinion. I know COEDS just made the claim too, and I'm going to guess that he's not a screen printer.


I'm not saying that it is screen printing, that would be decieptful. But I do get this comment, that it feels like screen printing, from thousands of screen printers every year at trade shows. And I am not implying it specifically to our product as their are lots of films that have this soft feel, but it is a comparison that dismisses the stigma associated with all vinyl as thick and glossy.

I have had certain applications where screen printers have said that film looks and feels better than screen printing with small white lettering on dark colored apparel. They usually refer to the cleaner lines and smoother feel.

So no deciept intended.


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## astromark (Jun 18, 2007)

Okay, I didn't mean to dismiss production factors. I was only saying that the customer should be the one who is happy.

Production time is a huge factor in making money in the decorated garment industry. I have been working with apparel films since 1979 - then using Stahl's vinyl, and I have tried almost every brand of film available.

I guess it's the PC vs. Mac or Corel vs. Adobe mentality in people that gives these discussions some bite sometimes.

My intention is not to offend anyone's product choices or likes or dislikes. I do not think that any film "feels like screen print". Even Tuff Cut from Joto. Which is screen printed. When you add the thickness of the adhesive, it changes the feel.

My original point was that the customer should be who we are working for, and giving them the best quality is what I strive for.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

astromark said:


> I guess it's the PC vs. Mac or Corel vs. Adobe mentality in people that gives these discussions some bite sometimes.


I would agree with this


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

astromark said:


> Okay, I didn't mean to dismiss production factors. I was only saying that the customer should be the one who is happy.
> 
> Production time is a huge factor in making money in the decorated garment industry. I have been working with apparel films since 1979 - then using Stahl's vinyl, and I have tried almost every brand of film available.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100% the customer must be happy. if they are not then they will go somewhere else. I have been a avid Hotmark fan, but now I think Eco film is a great product. All products we consume are very similar to others on the market, I think it depends om prefference. Some people drive fords and others drive Chevolet. I just want to encourage people to give this product ( ECO Film ) a chance and not judge it by past predecessor .... God luck. ... JB


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

rusty said:


> It's not just Eco Film. Most all the good quality vinyls are hot peel, and most were being produced long before Imprintables decided to come out with Eco Film. They came out with Eco Film trying to compete with the likes of ThermoFlex and MultiCut because they were having so much trouble with their line of SpectraCut II vinyl. So any of the hot peel quality vinyls out there will help you speed up your production, when compared to the cold peel vinyls such as Hotmark and SpectraCut II.


That's exactly what it is, Thermoflex and Multicut peels like hot butter. Imprintables knew their SCII had problems and wouldn't admit it in public and was hurrying around trying to find a product that worked as good as thermoflex and multicut as well as other hot peels, that's when they launched their "eco-film". It doesn't matter to me if it presses itself onto the shirt I wouldn't use it.

I will bet my wife it doesn't last, feel or peel any better then multicut or thermoflex does.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

theflowerboxx said:


> That's exactly what it is, Thermoflex and Multicut peels like hot butter. Imprintables knew their SCII had problems and wouldn't admit it in public and was hurrying around trying to find a product that worked as good as thermoflex and multicut as well as other hot peels, that's when they launched their "eco-film". It doesn't matter to me if it presses itself onto the shirt I wouldn't use it.
> 
> I will bet my wife it doesn't last, feel or peel any better then multicut or thermoflex does.


I thought Specialty Materials recommends that you wait 10 seconds before you peel Thermoflex? No? Eco-Film peels immediately (I don't know about Multicut).

And we did admit several times that the Spectracut II was having issues and offered replacements and returns (you never took us up on the offer). 

We developed a new product and it works great, I'm sorry that you have such negative feelings towards our company, but we have rectified the situation with almost all customers except a few on here that seem to be the most vocal. 

And there is no way that I will not educate on the benefits of this new product - It has a place with many decorators. And yes we hurry around all of the time to come out with the next "great" product - I think that is what someone should expect from a supplier whose business is cad-cut materials.


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## sunrise (May 15, 2007)

I have the same problem with the large images on Hotmark 70 so on our hang tag care instructions I put" Wash inside out with like colors. Lay flat to dry. Freshen graphic using iron set on medium heat (no steam) with cloth or waxed paper between the iron and the Iimage on the garment. *DO NOT PLACE IRON DIRECTLY ON THE IMAGE.*


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

Hi,

What size a graphic is consider large ?

I use Hotmark 70, but never on large design, and I would like to know the maximum size I can have before using an other brand of vinyl.

Thks


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

JoshEllsworth said:


> I thought Specialty Materials recommends that you wait 10 seconds before you peel Thermoflex? No? Eco-Film peels immediately (I don't know about Multicut).
> 
> And we did admit several times that the Spectracut II was having issues and offered replacements and returns (you never took us up on the offer).
> 
> ...


I willl say that when I disclosed their was a problem, I was asked to call Josh I did. I was offerered another product for the same price or my money back. I chose to take a chance on the new product Eco Film. I was explained the advantages of this vinyl verses others. I expect Josh or any other salesperson to represent their products. Josh told me if you don't like this material you can get your money back. I really like this product. I have nothing to gain by saying this. I plan to try other vinyls and compare them. I will post my findings. I encourage you non believers to try it for youselves. ...... Good luck. ..... JB


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> I thought Specialty Materials recommends that you wait 10 seconds before you peel Thermoflex? No? Eco-Film peels immediately (I don't know about Multicut).
> 
> And we did admit several times that the Spectracut II was having issues and offered replacements and returns (you never took us up on the offer).
> 
> ...


Sorry but YOU flat out lied to me personally on the phone, I was having a problem with your product and I called and talked to another rep and he said yeah we are aware there is a major problem and we are trying to figure out what the cause is. Then I call back a day or 2 later and spoke with you and you personally told me there is no problems that we are aware of it must of been a bad roll you got, so you sent me out another roll and it did the exact same thing that I am sure you already knew it was going to. You have since said there was a problem with it, but you know as well as I do you didn't have a choice but to come out and say it. I give a salesperson one shot, they lie, I will let the whole world know. You lied to me and I let people know about it.

As for multicut, it blows your SCII out of the water, I could peel it before I lift the platen all the way up. I could care less about your eco-film.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, back to the topic at hand.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

theflowerboxx said:


> Sorry but YOU flat out lied to me personally on the phone, I was having a problem with your product and I called and talked to another rep and he said yeah we are aware there is a major problem and we are trying to figure out what the cause is. Then I call back a day or 2 later and spoke with you and you personally told me there is no problems that we are aware of it must of been a bad roll you got, so you sent me out another roll and it did the exact same thing that I am sure you already knew it was going to. You have since said there was a problem with it, but you know as well as I do you didn't have a choice but to come out and say it. I give a salesperson one shot, they lie, I will let the whole world know. You lied to me and I let people know about it.
> 
> As for multicut, it blows your SCII out of the water, I could peel it before I lift the platen all the way up. I could care less about your eco-film.
> 
> Sorry for the thread hi-jack, back to the topic at hand.


It looks like you've made your decision not to do business with us or me pretty clear. There is really no reason for me to respond and try to justify the info that I gave you. I have a lot of customers that trust me and want to do business with our company and I will continue to invest my time in them.

I do give truthful and accurate information based on the info that I have and do not knowingly send defective product as I am not interested in getting this sort of publicity or donating my companies money to UPS.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> I thought Specialty Materials recommends that you wait 10 seconds before you peel Thermoflex? No?


The latest directions do say to wait 10 seconds before peeling, however I never have. I peel as soon as I can touch it which is probably about 2 seconds after lifting the press, and it's always worked great.

There are a couple colors that you have to wait a little longer to peel, like the florescent colors.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> I'm not saying that it is screen printing, that would be decieptful. But I do get this comment, that it feels like screen printing, from thousands of screen printers every year at trade shows. And I am not implying it specifically to our product as their are lots of films that have this soft feel, but it is a comparison that dismisses the stigma associated with all vinyl as thick and glossy.


Either these screen printers you reference are:
1) speaking very loosely when they said it feels like screen printing (equivalent to saying I look like Brad Pitt), OR
2) they are just being nice and complimentary, OR
3) these are some screen printers that I would not want printing my shirts.


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## auggieboy (Mar 22, 2008)

One thing I don't care for about the eco film is the way it gets stiffer in colder weather. I will give it props for being easy to weed, fast due to the hot peel, and its "hand" at temperatures above 45 degrees. But, anything below 45 degrees and its a mess, it almost gets thicker and stiffer. If the shirts folded the fold lines will never come out unless its heated up. 
Someone please do me a favor and put a shirt with eco-film on it in the freezer for an hour or two and see if you get the same results.

I sell at an outdoor market and it was a big problem during the holidays.
Anyone know if the other brands do this or not?


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

auggieboy said:


> One thing I don't care for about the eco film is the way it gets stiffer in colder weather. I will give it props for being easy to weed, fast due to the hot peel, and its "hand" at temperatures above 45 degrees. But, anything below 45 degrees and its a mess, it almost gets thicker and stiffer. If the shirts folded the fold lines will never come out unless its heated up.
> Someone please do me a favor and put a shirt with eco-film on it in the freezer for an hour or two and see if you get the same results.
> 
> I sell at an outdoor market and it was a big problem during the holidays.
> Anyone know if the other brands do this or not?


Multicut nor Thermoflex Plus niether one of them does that problem you described, at least not that I have ever seen.


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## auggieboy (Mar 22, 2008)

Thank, who has the best prices on Multicut or Thermoflex Plus?

I would love to see a product like Spectra Cut (the thick stuff) with a sticky backer. The feel of Spectra cut may be thick and rubbery, but the stuff is tuff and lasts longer then the garment its printed on. It will not peel, wrinkle or crack over time. It's only problem is it's a pain to weed.
Anyone know of a product like this??


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

auggieboy said:


> Thank, who has the best prices on Multicut or Thermoflex Plus?
> 
> I would love to see a product like Spectra Cut (the thick stuff) with a sticky backer. The feel of Spectra cut may be thick and rubbery, but the stuff is tuff and lasts longer then the garment its printed on. It will not peel, wrinkle or crack over time. It's only problem is it's a pain to weed.
> Anyone know of a product like this??


You may like Thermofilm?? Thicker with a sticky backing.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

If you are looking for something thick and durable with a sticky backing, try TwillUSA's SportFilm. It's considerably thicker than the fashion vinyls. I use it for athletic applications. It has the sticky backing and is hot peel. You can't do as fine of detail as you can with the thinner fashion vinyls, but that is only logical.




auggieboy said:


> Thank, who has the best prices on Multicut or Thermoflex Plus?
> 
> I would love to see a product like Spectra Cut (the thick stuff) with a sticky backer. The feel of Spectra cut may be thick and rubbery, but the stuff is tuff and lasts longer then the garment its printed on. It will not peel, wrinkle or crack over time. It's only problem is it's a pain to weed.
> Anyone know of a product like this??


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I have used thick vinyl for Jersey's in the past from Ace Transfer Company, Inc. This is a great vinyl for sports and it comes in 18 inch rolls. ..... JB


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

auggieboy said:


> Thank, who has the best prices on Multicut or Thermoflex Plus?
> 
> I would love to see a product like Spectra Cut (the thick stuff) with a sticky backer. The feel of Spectra cut may be thick and rubbery, but the stuff is tuff and lasts longer then the garment its printed on. It will not peel, wrinkle or crack over time. It's only problem is it's a pain to weed.
> Anyone know of a product like this??


to the best of my knowledge multicut is only sold by joto papers ::: Welcome to Joto Paper :::

it has a sticky backing and wears like iron without being stiff and rubbery. i personally have workshirts - worn every day for many years - that by all rights should be in the rag bag - and the logos above the pockets look like i put them on yesterday. no cracks, wrinkles or peeling and this includes some VERY fine lines in the text...

good luck with whatever you try!


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## stargraphics (Nov 20, 2007)

I like Eco and ThermoFlex BECAUSE the backing is stickier which is very helpful when your design has detail and/or small letters. The other stuff is probably just as good when your design is mostly big solids.


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