# Sublimation Color Shift Woes



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

I started playing with sublimation this weekend and although the results look promising, I've hit a major stumbling block. When I press my transfer, I get a pretty significant purplish/lavender shift on the fabric.

I'm using an Epson 88+, Sawgrass Sublijet IQ inks, Accuplot paper. I've pressed with 385-410 degrees and 35-50 seconds onto 100% polyester fabric and vapor apparel shirts. I've used both the epson print driver and the sawgrass powerdriver. The epson leaves blacks looking green. Blacks look good using the sawgrass but some of the other colors are off. I'm going to try some more settings in a little bit and post some pictures later on tonight. 

If you are getting consistently good results, can you share your settings? I'm going to run out of ink at this rate and I'm still not exactly sure *who's* messing up the color translation yet -- the printer, the driver or illustrator.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

If you are using the color management in the print driver, turn it off in the graphics software. If you are using the epson driver, turn off the color management in the print driver and turn it on in the graphics software. 

Make sure your nozzle check is perfect. We had the green problem with blacks when the nozzle check was not perfect. 

We use the 1280 with the bulk delivery system.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks, that was enough to help me figure it out. I had selected ICM in the Epson driver but had then turned it OFF in the radio button right below. Prints now look closer to reality.

So, for *ME* good enough is:

Illustrator 10 - Edit/Color Settings... US Standard Prepress (Adobe or sRGB)
Epson 88+ driver. ICM Color Management. Fine setting. Plain Paper. High Speed.
Sublijet IQ ink, Accuplot paper.

Using photo put too much ink on the paper and made the prints too dark. 

I'm pretty miffed at sawgrass. I could not get their driver to give me decent results. I spent almost 2 nights battling with it -- along with 1/2 my ink. Grrr...

Anyhow, I can at least crank out some prints and have them look normal. No I have to figure out a process for actually pressing the darn things without scorching the fabric or getting smudges and ghost images all over the place. I'll save those questions for another thread.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Glad I could help. We went through the same thing. 



Moo Spot Prints said:


> Anyhow, I can at least crank out some prints and have them look normal. No I have to figure out a process for actually pressing the darn things without scorching the fabric or getting smudges and ghost images all over the place. I'll save those questions for another thread.


The accuplot paper is a low release paper. It leaves a lot of ink on the paper after pressing. If you go with a high release paper like texprint you will find sawgrass won't support you at all. You cannot use their driver. What we did was use the epson driver, color management from our graphic software and the print media of transparency. That worked ok. You have less chance of a ghost with a high release paper. 

One more thing on ghosting. If you fold your garment you will find the image will migrate. The same for washing it right away. If you wait a while, the time I have not yet determined, the image will not move. For the ghosting, good luck on getting rid of it. We tried bleach and could not get it out. 

For scorching, try less time at the same temp. Also, get a laser thermometer. Our DK20S press runs over 25 degrees hotter than the set digital temp gauge.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Great advice Binki! Ghosting does suck. I am fighting with doing FRP plastic right now. I get the best results for color by placing the release paper face up on the heat press platten and flipping the FRP plastic on top of the release paper (I use TexprintXP). I have to double my time pressing, but the colors look great. The trick is getting the FRP off the release paper without getting the ghosting. Once it is there, you are stuck with it.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

I can't use the sawgrass driver at all, so no big deal right now. I will try the transparency option to get less ink on the paper. Ghosting is going to be a dealbreaker if I can't figure out how to eliminate it. I've resorted to yanking the shirt as fast as possible when the press lifts ala tablecloth yank. Not the prettiest, but it's working. There's gotta be a better way though. How are you keeping the paper from flying around when you lift the press and/or teflon sheet?

I'm experiencing more shine than scorch. I do not see this in the poly fabric I got from the fabric store but I am seeing it a LOT on the performance shirts I did last night. The weave is textured and has lots of empty, compressible space (presumably to aid in wicking away moisture). I think that the high temp/dwell time (40 secs @ 385) is collapsing the structure and squeezing it together. The fibers are probably getting squished together and being fused into a smaller, denser configuration. 

The fabric is ok at lower temps (300-320 for vinyl). I'll have to experiment with temps and dwell times to see how Low I can go. Black sublimates at a farily low temp, right? 

I picked up a laser thermometer yesterday. $40 at harbor freight. My press is only off by a couple of degrees and has pretty even distribution. Make sure you're perpendicular to the platen when you take a reading. The laser beam will reflect right off if your angle is too obtuse.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

this is one (of many) topic i know nothing about.  

keep it going.


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## cprvh (Jan 23, 2006)

To help eliminate ghosting, raise your platen slooowly. What is probably happening is that the platen has created either static or suction against the transfer paper, when it falls from the platen is when you get the ghosting. Another possibility may be fabric shrinkage. Some fabrics shrink when heated. The ghosting from shrinkage is different than that caused by the transfer shifting. When the transfer shifts, you get pretty much the same as a drop shaddow. But when the fabric shrinks you will have a ghost image around your graphic.

Try dropping the heat a bit to reduce the shine. Scrap out a shirt and use all available pieces for testing.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I have found using a teflon pillow can help reduce the suction effect of opening a press when it comes to doing shirts. This does not work really well with hard substrates. I know that Source Substrates has came out with a temperature resistant foam material as well. I have not used it, but someone else might have.


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## PrintMonkey (Jul 15, 2006)

Use a textile adhesive spray, one that has a fine mist spray pattern.
Just lightly spray 1 or 2 times the transfer, postion on the shirt and press.
To keep overspray down, just cut down a cardboard box and lay the transfer(s) in it.

Mark


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

cprvh said:


> To help eliminate ghosting, raise your platen slooowly.


I have a Phoenix Phire and the auto release causes the platen to pop up quickly for a few millimeters. It then raises slowly but by then it is too late. The suction has pulled the paper up and shifted its position. 

I have to hold it down as the electromagnet shuts off and gently lift. 



cprvh said:


> Try dropping the heat a bit to reduce the shine. Scrap out a shirt and use all available pieces for testing.


I've dropped the temp and it's helped considerably with the ghosting and the shine somewhat. The heat from the shirt was causing the paper to continue the sublimation even after I had lifted the platen. I dropped it to around 340 and I've yet to see ghosting even it the paper flutters about.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Here are a couple of things I have tried for garments and a few hard item like metal that is too small to sit by itself. 

I put a teflon sheet down. I then either put a parchment paper down for small items or put the larger item to be printed on the teflon sheet. I tape the parchment paper to the teflon sheet with heat tape. I try to keep the transfer paper in a large enough size to be able to tape one side to the teflon sheet or parchment paper. I place a teflon sheet or parchment paper over the transfer to prevent bleeding on the heat element. 

I open the press slowly to keep everything from moving. I then peel the top sheet and then the transfer paper. You can also tape the transfer paper to the top teflon to keep it from moving. 

Three other things I have done: 
1) I turn things upside down and tape the transfer to the teflon sheet on the bottom and then place my blank on top of it. 

2) I use an oversised transfer paper size and let a little of it stick out of the press so I can hold it as I open the press. 

3) I open the press slowly and then put a finger down on one edge to steady it without moving it and peel from a corner. This works pretty well if there is a teflon sheet on top but it can get pretty hot! I have burned my fingers so much that I could use them start my bbq without any lighter fluid. As an alternative I have bent up one corner so it is dog-eared and easy to grab and peel when I open the press. 

You will have less issues with a high release paper. I have dropped the TexPrint paper back onto my shirt without ghosting. The accuplot paper is not so forgiving.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

The spray that Mark mentioned really works great for me. It has eliminated any ghosting problems. I might have had. What happened with fabrics for me was the fabric expands when pressure is applied by the press, and then when the pressure is release the fabric recoils back to it's original size, and that would cause the ghosting. But just a light spray has eliminated my problems. I bought a product from Conde called Pro Spray. It's kind of pricey, but considering how much money is lost by ghost ruined substrates, it's a small fraction.


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## roj49 (Mar 12, 2007)

Conde pro spray solved all my ghosting probs ,too. I use teflon sheets on every thing ,almost, and spray anything smaller than 6" x6". the teflon sheets keep things from scorching and hold down the larger transfer paper during the critical first release. Also dont scrimp on press time when subbing on light colored polyester shirts ( like Softlink),cause the paper is still transfering dye even if you try the tablecloth maneuver. i've found that in Chromablast , if your paper sticks to the shirt after pressing, things were not hot enough: pre heat shirt and/or platen. Or your transfer paper picked up stray moisture and needs to be thoroughly dried out. good luck.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Using photo put too much ink on the paper and made the prints too dark.


Hmmm..... Thanks for the tip!!!

I've been getting the same thing with dark photos but have been using the photo mode. I guess that's what I get for following instructions!!


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## joelkarr (Nov 1, 2007)

Back to the original topic a little.

I have the r1800 Hybrid System with Sublijet IQ and CHromablast

I print to the PowerDriver IQ 1800 and print out a test pallete it looks normal with all colors showing. Then when I try and heat press it onto a champion performance shirt. I only get yellows, oranges, and pinks....i am assuming something is wrong with my cyan. I then check nozzles and it all works. Has anyone had this happen before?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

joelkarr said:


> Back to the original topic a little.
> 
> I have the r1800 Hybrid System with Sublijet IQ and CHromablast
> 
> I print to the PowerDriver IQ 1800 and print out a test pallete it looks normal with all colors showing. Then when I try and heat press it onto a champion performance shirt. I only get yellows, oranges, and pinks....i am assuming something is wrong with my cyan. I then check nozzles and it all works. Has anyone had this happen before?


I'm assuming you are doing the test pallette with the Sublijet Inks right? and not the ChromaBlast?

Are you using a Hybrid rip like MultiRip? I'm pretty sure PowerDriver IQ does not work with a hybrid system.

rusty


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## Shotis Inc (Jan 23, 2008)

Use the bitmap setting on vivid and check colorblast. It makes the colors more true. 
I have the same system and I am about to smash it... it takes forever to print and once I do I can not avoid lines or ghost images. I have the foam kit from Vapor too. 
Silk screeing has never been more fun!


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Shotis Inc said:


> I have the same system and I am about to smash it... it takes forever to print and once I do I can not avoid lines or ghost images. I have the foam kit from Vapor too.


To get rid of the ghosting, try using the Pro Spray from Conde. I got more ghosting when using a pillow kit because it gave the paper more cushion and opportunity to move / shift after opening the press. The Pro Spray turns your transfer into a post. At the cost you pay for the sub shirts, only three mistakes and you lost more money than an entire can of Pro Spray. The pillow kit or foam will get rid of the lines.


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## Susie (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie too and was all prepared for the ghosting problem in advance. But the heat press came with instructions to put a teflon sheet down, put your tshirt on it, put your transfer on that and put another teflon sheet on top of that. I didn't use any kind of tape or spray or anything. What I found is after I SLOWLY open the press the whole caboodle, teflon and all, is stuck together still. I pull the whole thing off the press and just peel off the first teflon and the paper is already loose usually and I have had no hint of ghosting at all. I don't know if I'm doing this right or not but I can say I'm extremely pleased with how that worked. 

I'm running an Epson 7800 with Evolution Graphics RIP from Digifab and Artainium inks with high release paper.

What I did have once though is a very faded image from the previous press I made transfer onto the next shirt. Does a person have to somehow clean each teflon sheet between pressings? Perhaps residual ink sticks to the teflon?

Sue


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

I put a used transfer sheet (plastisol) on top of the sublimation paper. It catches the vaporized ink and keeps the teflon sheet clean for the next press. Even a plain piece of paper should work.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Susie said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am a newbie too and was all prepared for the ghosting problem in advance. But the heat press came with instructions to put a teflon sheet down, put your tshirt on it, put your transfer on that and put another teflon sheet on top of that. I didn't use any kind of tape or spray or anything. What I found is after I SLOWLY open the press the whole caboodle, teflon and all, is stuck together still. I pull the whole thing off the press and just peel off the first teflon and the paper is already loose usually and I have had no hint of ghosting at all. I don't know if I'm doing this right or not but I can say I'm extremely pleased with how that worked.
> 
> ...


The Teflon sheets should not stick to the paper or shirt. Maybe it was static cling or something that held them all together. Congratulations for the first one coming out well. But I would guess you will experience ghosting as you continue.

I do not use a teflon sheet on top at all. I'm not sure what benefit it would be. The Dye Sub paper should protect the shirt from direct contact with the press. And it also should absorb all the excess DyeSub vapor. You through that away after each press, so you should have risk of it transferring onto the next shirt.

You can clean your teflon off after each press if you want, but it really slows down production.


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## palmetto (Feb 22, 2008)

If you're using a teflon sheet you will get some sub dye go through the sub paper onto the teflon and then it may re-sublimate onto the next shirt. Use craft paper on top instead of teflon.I also did not get any ghosting on my first couple of shirts and then it appeared so you have to either get that spray stuff or grab the edge(if using large sheets) and pull off from the side super fast before you even finish lifting the press. Both methods will work. When i do it I don't drag the paper across the image or hesitate even for a second. Its just a quick smooth rip. I did 27 shirts last night front and back with the fast rip method with no ghosting and I did 72 the other day again with no ghosting. For press lines: I use vapor foam and make sure my paper is larger that the foam. In most cases I use 17x22 paper and it over hangs the press. When I did a small logo on one side, I cut the foam larger than the image and placed that under the shirt and then make the sub paper just larger than the foam.Since I was doing a pocket logo I just cut my paper so I had some overhang coming out the side of the press so I could grap and rip. I've ordered the spray to try as well. Use super light pressure! and no press lines not even on the micro perf stuff. I hope that helps.


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## gemais (Jan 27, 2008)

What is vapour foam?

Gemais


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

It is a heat resistant foam that you can put on to your heat press platen that will still give you the pressure you need, but will prevent the press lines from the edges of the paper. This typically happens on the micro performance shirts. Vapor Apparel / Source Substrates is the company that brought this product to the market. Most of their distributors sell it if you are interested in buying it.


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## gemais (Jan 27, 2008)

thanks, I will ask my supplier here if he can get some.

Gemais


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

It's been six months now and I've taken another stab at sublimation. I bought an Epson 1400 and a CIS from TOG. 

Installed their ICC profile, printed a test image, pressed it and BAM! Great colors. Black is actually black. Not gray. Not green. BLACK.

Yay!


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

pro spray the way to go


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## sid (Oct 6, 2007)

Texprint and other high release papers are for soft goods, Tee shirts,etc. If you are doing any hard surfaces like metal or FRP use a low release paper for hard surfaces, ask your distributor. Don't mix papers you won't get good results. As for ink I prefer Artainium, rather than Sawgrass. I find I get very consistent results, good blacks and strong colors. Always use Prospray for fabric to prent ghosting.


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## Pyroshouse (Mar 4, 2008)

Ok, I have a couple of follow up questions. First, I have had the problem of ghosting due to the paper floating. However, I am haveing a different problem lately with heavy blacks on the paper, I am getting a pink multicolor, cloud. I am assuming a problem with dwell times but before I waste a lot of time and money playing thought I would ask if anyone had any other Ideas. Thanks in advance


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