# QX-1 Emulsion and ER-80 Remover



## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

To the experts:

I currently switched over to Ulano's qx-1 emulsion. I'm using the ER-80 emulsion remover from Pro Chemicals. I noticed for a majority of my screeens, it took the emulsion out, with some elbow grease and alot of water pressure.

Now my issue is, I've got 3 screens that have about 30 percent of the emulsion still in the screen. My screens are 173 mesh. I can't seem to get the rest of the emulsion out, even after 4 passes of spraying and scrubbing the screens. It almost looks like its locked in the screen or hazed. 

I know the typical solution is to just get the screens restreched. However, before I do so, I wanted to make sure it wasn't any other variables or combinations of some sort.

Is the ER-80 suitable for removing Ulano QX-1 emulsion?

Could this just be an issue of the ER-80 becoming destabilized (if that's even possible)?

My ER-80 came as a concentrate, and I mixed it as advised on the label... and when I ran into this issue, I pretty much poured the rest of the concentration in the bottle resulting in a 50/50 mix with water, hoping that would help. It's turned yellow. Is that any sign of expiration?

Thanks in advanced


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

i'm not familiar with that reclamation agent, but from what i do know about them:

you must never let the chemical dry in the screen. as soon as it is applied, you need to scrub good and well until all of the emulsion has been "unlocked" and then immediately spray out. 

for those screens that have dried... i've heard a high-power pressure washer could do the trick.

i use ulano's stencil remover liquid #4 and i don't dillute it. 3 sprays per side does it every time.

derek


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

darwinchristian said:


> i'm not familiar with that reclamation agent, but from what i do know about them:
> 
> you must never let the chemical dry in the screen. as soon as it is applied, you need to scrub good and well until all of the emulsion has been "unlocked" and then immediately spray out.
> 
> ...


What kind of emulsion do u have?


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

i'm using QTX, but am currently shopping for a new one with better resolution.


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## igs1070 (May 28, 2008)

QX-1 is a great emulsion. It is a pure photopolymer emulsion. I have heard that it is harder to reclaim than dual cure emulsions.

Are your screens under exposed, if so, when you clean your screens with screen opener or mineral spirits they will lockup the emulsion.

Only solution when a screen is locked up, is to restretch.

Also, reclaiming solutions can weaken if exposed to sunlight. 

Mahalo,
Jon


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

igs1070 said:


> QX-1 is a great emulsion. It is a pure photopolymer emulsion. I have heard that it is harder to reclaim than dual cure emulsions.
> 
> Are your screens under exposed, if so, when you clean your screens with screen opener or mineral spirits they will lockup the emulsion.
> 
> ...


Thanks. If anything I think I'm over exposing, I'm having the hardest time getting halftone images wash out without washing or tearing the rest of the image with the water pressure.

What's the diff btw diazo and my
photo polymer emulsion? (I know,"why did u buy qx1 if u dont know the diff)- a sells rep suggested it because i was looking more bang for the buck and it was on sell at the time.


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## igs1070 (May 28, 2008)

Dual cure emulsion's are more sensitive to shooting halftones.

You did not mention what kind of exposure unit you're using.

If you are using fluorescent bulbs, it will be harder to expose, compared to using a 3K or 5K metal halide.

Pure photopolymer emulsions expose 50% faster than dual cure.

Ex. QX-1 burn time - 45 secs. 5K
Dual Cure burn time - 90 secs. 5K

Films are very critical when shooting halftones.
If you are using laser film with fluor. bulb exposure, you will definitely have problems.

You may want to try Murakami PhotoBlu or Chromaline ChromaBlue. They are pure photopolymers but are more forgiving when using weak light sources.

Mahalo,
Jon


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

I have the silver 20x24 exposure unit that comes with the semi pro kit as an upgrade from silkscreeningsupplies.com


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## igs1070 (May 28, 2008)

Those are fluor. bulbs.
Checked website, looks like there is no vaccum either.

These things are all critical when shooting halftones.

Suggest you put sand bags or phone books on the squeegee side of the frame when exposing
screen.

You may want to ask your supplier for a more forgiving emulsion.

It is really hard to nail the correct time to shoot halftones with fluo. bulbs.

Mahalo,
Jon


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

igs1070 said:


> Those are fluor. bulbs.
> Checked website, looks like there is no vaccum either.
> 
> These things are all critical when shooting halftones.
> ...



I actually have a foam board that I place on top of it, which is accompanied by a wooden board that covers it entirely, on top of that, I place a 25 pound weight on the area where the image is.. and then place 2 gallon jugs filled with water...

I've been doing a little reading on the forum, and I'm considering creating a diptank rather than waste all my energy, water and time trying to reclaim these screens...

my next three series of questions are:

1) Is it worth trying something completely method and give diptank reclaiming a shout? Or should I give it another try, using a different Emulsion remover and just spraying and scrubbing?

2) If I decide to use a diptank, can I use a ratio of bleach and water instead of an Emulsion Remover? And if not, what emulsion remover would you suggest?

3) Can a diptank possibly reclaim my locked/hazed screens as a last attempt in avoiding "re-stretching"?


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

darwinchristian said:


> i'm using QTX, but am currently shopping for a new one with better resolution.



QX-1 is an excellent, halftone, dual-cure, pre-sensitized emulsion with an 18 month shelf life. It is about half the speed of QTX.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: QX-1 Emulsion and ER/80 Concentrated Stencil Remover*



Somighty said:


> I'm using the ER-80 emulsion remover from Pro Chemicals.
> 
> Is the ER-80 suitable for removing Ulano QX-1 emulsion?
> 
> ...


I've never heard of Pro Chemicals, but chemical company CCI makes a concentrated stencil remover called ER/80. www.ccidom.com


Stencil remover creates a chemical action that breaks the cross link bonds, created when you exposed the stencil.

Stencil remover has to penetrate INTO the stencil to get to those bonds. Once there - chemical concentration doesn't help break the links, they act like a key that makes removing the chemical lock easily, and you don't need to break them with brute force. It doesn't harm the stencil to use a high concentration, it just uses more than you need to. If you are washing some dust from your hands, do you need Super Duper Lava Sand Paper Grease Remover, or a mild detergent in bar of hotel skin soap? You just used much more expensive concentrate than you needed to.

CCI ER/80 Stencil Remover Concentrate is designed for 10 to 30 to 1 dilution and can only work on sensitizer cross links. If the stencil remover chemical finds under-exposed sensitizer, it creates a different chemical bond, and chemically bonds the stencil into the mesh. 

Concentrates do not penetrate as well as ready-to-use products because you can't concentrate the critical wetting agents that help penetrate the stencil.

I think you had an under exposed stencil, or let it dry in some areas, or exposed a stencil that wasn't completely dry and the water inside blocked the exposure/stencil chemical reaction that holds the stencil in the mesh.

Time consuming high pressure water or a razor blade are the only remedies then.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: QX-1 Emulsion and ER/80 Concentrated Stencil Remover*



RichardGreaves said:


> I've never heard of Pro Chemicals, but chemical company CCI makes a concentrated stencil remover called ER/80. www.ccidom.com
> 
> 
> Stencil remover creates a chemical action that breaks the cross link bonds, created when you exposed the stencil.
> ...



Thanks for the informative information. I think I may be over exposing, as logical as it may seem that I'm under exposing. I shall run a step test to figure this out. Thanks.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: QX-1 Emulsion and ER/80 Concentrated Stencil Remover*



Somighty said:


> I think I may be over exposing, as logical as it may seem that I'm under exposing. I shall run a step test to figure this out.


Over exposure will not cause difficult reclaim.

But yes, all screen makers must learn to judge exposure.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t58936.html#post352924


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: QX-1 Emulsion and ER/80 Concentrated Stencil Remover*

So I finally got the time to try a pressure washer, it got 98% of the emulsion out. 

General question regarding Ulano QX-1...

I coated a screen. Poured the remainder back in the container and then put the screen in my rack to dry. I began to wash my goop scoop and spatula that had excess emulsion in it and had a difficult time washing it out. Why did it seem as if the emulsion had been exposed/ hard to wash out? Usually it just washes right now with water. Is this indicative of a defective gallon of emulsion?


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: QX-1 Emulsion and ER/80 Concentrated Stencil Remover*

No. It just started to dry on the utensils. Are you scrubbing with a brush? I have always used a brush, especially for the corners of the emulsion trough.

With a scissors you trim an inexpensive spatula to fit the shape of the emulsion trough.

Are you using an emulsion trough?


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: QX-1 Emulsion and ER/80 Concentrated Stencil Remover*



RichardGreaves said:


> No. It just started to dry on the utensils. Are you scrubbing with a brush? I have always used a brush, especially for the corners of the emulsion trough.
> 
> With a scissors you trim an inexpensive spatula to fit the shape of the emulsion trough.
> 
> Are you using an emulsion trough?


 
Drying on the utensils, that makes sense

I usually do wash with a scrub pad, this time I wasnt. I wasnt thinking. at all.

That's a pretty good idea, to cut the spatula into the shape of the trough.

And yes, I am using a trough.

Thank you!


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## antman428 (Sep 1, 2007)

First off I'm not knocking anyones products but I used to use Ulano QTX for a long time and found that certain chemicals in particular certain brands of ink degradents and sometimes screen opener would cause the emulsion to lock into the mesh or not properly break down with stencil remover. It may not be your stencil remover but another chemical used prior to reclaiming. CCI also makes citrapaste which always seemed to work well with that emulsion. Currently I use SAATI textile PV which is the exact same thing peformance and appearance wise as QTX for about $25.00 less per gallon.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Yes, QTX is designed for speed and plastisol inks, at the cost of not having much solvent resistance. Plastisol is the mildest ink in screen printing and will clean up with very mild solvents because it doesn't dry in the mesh.

QX-1 is a very different emulsion. It has excellent solvent resistance and some water resistance. It is a dual-cure, so it has excellent resolution for halftones and fine lines, but you don't add diazo. It is pre-sensitized at the factory and has an 18 month shelf life. 

Many people, when they see "pre-sensitized at the factory" think high speed SBQ, but the dual cure combination of 2 sensitizers slows down the exposure speed to about half of Saati Textil PV or QTX.


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

I Use Ulano 925WR . For me personally it is the best I have used. As I use both waterbased and plastisol inks it works great with both.It reclaims easily,I use Ulano stencil remover paste no 5,and it exposes very well,I have a natgrapgh 2kw metal halide self contained lightbox and never have any exposure issues.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Greaves, how would you compare qx-1 to chromaline udc-2 for detail and exposure time and price? I switched from qtx to chromablue to udc-2. I love the exposure lattitude and detail of the udc-2 dual cure, but I'm willing to compare.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

out da box said:


> Greaves, how would you compare qx-1 to chromaline udc-2 for detail and exposure time and price?
> 
> I switched from qtx to chromablue to udc-2. I love the exposure lattitude and detail of the udc-2 dual cure, but I'm willing to compare.


I certainly encourage you to compare. 

You moved from a very fast plastisol emulsion with mild solvent resistance designed for low energy UV sources, to a dual-cure (which will have better solvent resistance and resolution), because it has dual sensitizers. 

Better latitude usually means slower. When you are driving your Ferrari very fast, it is hard to stop instantly. You will almost always over-shoot your perfect spot. That is why QTX is so well suited to low energy UV sources. A 3,000 watt metal halide lamp can expose a stencil in 10 - 15 seconds or less, but this is like sticking a steak in a blast furnace for 10 seconds to cook it. 14 seconds and Ooops, you have a piece of charcoal.

Speed costs money. Dual cures usually cost about 40% less than QTX. If you have a strong UV lamp, and if you control it with a light meter (light integrator), you can make very accurate exposures based on volume of UV energy, rather than a timer which doesn't take into consideration lamp age and temperature. 3 minutes today is not the same energy volume when the lamp is cool compared to the 6th screen in a row.

Screen makers with small budgets can buy a 500 watt quartz halogen work light that has a very low percentage of UV-A output for $30, but they should combine that with a fast emulsion or it is like watching paint dry.

Ulano QX-1 is a dual-cure, but both sensitizers are added at the factory, so it has an 18 month shelf life.

UDC-2 is a dual-cure that you sensitize with diazo.

Chroma/Blue is pre-sensitized, but more like QTX than a dual-cure


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Yeah, I know, but How does qx-1 measure up to udc-2? I have a good m-h light source and expose udc-2 in 60 sec. It gives me excellent detail and resolution- especially with halftones. I have always used and liked Ulano emulsion, so I might try qx-1, especially with the 18mo shelf life.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Compare the prices.

UDC-2 requires you to sensitize it with diazo and has a 4 to 6 week pot life

QX-1 is pre-sensitized at the factory and has an 18 month shelf life.

Ulano supplies all their distributors with free samples for testing. If they don't have the samples they can have for free, they can have Ulano drop ship them to you.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

RichardGreaves said:


> Compare the prices.
> 
> UDC-2 requires you to sensitize it with diazo and has a 4 to 6 week pot life
> 
> ...



Would you suggest a suitable Ulano Emulsion Remover for the QX-1? I have a local supplier, but it looks like theyre fresh out. Can Ulano drop ship a sample of ER as well?


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Somighty said:


> Would you suggest a suitable Ulano Emulsion Remover for the QX-1?
> 
> I have a local supplier, but it looks like theyre fresh out.
> 
> ...



http://www.ulano.com/chem/stenremove.htm


_Ulano supplies all their distributors with free samples for testing. If they don't have the samples, they can have for free, they can have Ulano drop ship them to you._


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

So after I bought more emulsion remover (TextChem).... I still had a locked screen. I decided to use my Liquid Renu-it to try to penetrate the locked emulsion. I scrubbed my screens with the Renu-it, and then sprayed a concentrated amount on the locked emulsions... Let it sit for 30 minutes and washed away with a waterhose. LIKE MAGIC, the spots of locked emulsion washed out. 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.


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