# How do you handle being ripped off by a client?



## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

We recently did a job for a new client. They needed embroidered caps, embroidered polos, and dtg printed wicking tees for an event.
Our normal policy is 50% down, balance on delivery.
This client was a referral from an associate, and they were on a tight deadline, so I didn't follow our own policy (yeah, I know...)
Any way - long story short - I ordered all the specialty goods before I got the goahead in writing. When I got the goahead, I printed the shirts, had the design digitized, and sewed the polos. All done well before their deadline.
The caps - different story - a nightmare to get correct.
Any way - long story short - I let the client know that the shirts were completed, and that I had caps for them to wear for their event (good at a 10 foot distance) and that I'd replace the order as soon as I could.
The customer blew me off, and now wants a "substantial discount" because I didn't meet their timeline.
Any suggestions on how to handle this situation?


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## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

It sounds like you did meet his deadline, but you were not happy with the quality of the hats and offered to replace them. I would replace them at no costs, but not give him a discount. You may offer him 10% off of his next order or something, but I would charge this order as specified.


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## Teeser (May 14, 2008)

It sounds like the hats didn't meet your own quality standards. As a customer I wouldn't accept a hat "good at 10 feet" (but I'd be nice about it!) and I don't expect my customers to accept it either. I get the impression that if you had had the time you would've tossed them and started over and eaten the cost anyways. Since it was for an event they might not need or want them anymore and I would give my customer give a full refund for the hats.


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## NESBOW (Sep 10, 2006)

just a question did they accept delivery of the hats and wear them for the intended affair?


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## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

They have paid NOTHING, and accepted NOTHING. 
Here's his comment from last night:


> Kind of like old bowling trophies in the Goodwill store, shirts that don't arrive until after the event have little value. I feel that given your assurances that their would be no problem having the items in time for our event that we are entitled to a sizable discount.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Why did you not deliver the shirts on time?

The only issue is the hats then don't give him the hat or charge him for them.


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## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

I tried to deliver the shirts.
The client refused to either pick them up or meet me somewhere - he claimed he was "out of time" - even though when he called me, he was at the DMV renewing his car registration.
He was anxious to get out of town - I offered to make it as easy as possible for him - he refused.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Send him an invoice in the mail to make it official and chalk it up to experience I guess.


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## spankthafunk (Apr 9, 2007)

Rule #1:
Don't break your own rules. 

The client would have been more than happy to drive to you and pick up the shirts had you made him pay the 50% down that you normally go by. I don't want to add salt to the wound, but this should be a good example of why you make customer's pay that 50% down up front. Had he paid that amount already, things wouldn't have gone so sour.

I wish I could give better advice what to do now, but I'm not that experienced. In my personal opinion, I would say charge him for the shirts because they were done and on time and give him the shirts. I would not charge him for the hats though.


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## stuffnthingz (Oct 1, 2007)

One question though. Did you not clarify with him when the shirts would be ready? Certainly there is comes a time before the actual event where the customer is no longer able to get the merchandise. If the two of you hadn't pinpointed a final deadline, then that is one more point to note for next time. I just finished a large order due by 8/1 but the customer left on 7/23 and I actually had to probe to get that cut off date. Had I just left it at their original 8/1 date I would have been in big trouble, but I asked "when do you need to have these in hand for your event". Sometimes customers are so focused on their event that they don't consider the logistics and timing of getting ready for the event. Sounds like that's what happened with this customer of yours. And you certainly cannot read their mind. I say send them an invoice. If the shirts were ready 1 week before the event and you notified them, then that is plenty of time to arrange delivery.


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## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

He had asked that the merchandise be ready Friday morning. It was done Friday morning.
I had emailed him about the challenges - unfortunately, he claims that he never got the email. (that is entirely possible - we were having a few challenges). I didn't have a phone number for him, so I had to wait to hear from him either via email or phone.

And of course I will not charge him for caps - I wouldn't have charged him for the original ones, no matter what...


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## betilfan (Apr 28, 2007)

I think in the end you were in the wrong here by providing a subpar product with the caps. I would have just got him the shirts and said the caps were damaged in production, do you still want to get them even though they are late. If he then demanded a discount you weren't prepared to work with, he only owed you for the shirts. If he doesn't pay you at all, then really there is nothing you can do. There are those that will tell you that you can take him to court but those are people who have never been to court. If you sue me and win and I don't pay you, now what are you going to do? Sue me again, and I still won't pay you, then what. Oh, now you've spent more than you lost in court fees and I still won't pay you. You'd be lucky if the guy even showed up in court.


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## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

Thanks for the response.
I think you misunderstood a little.
I never intended to stop at the sub standard caps. They wanted them in case they were in a photo - and for team identity during a bicycle race. I told the client that they would be REPLACED with good ones as soon as I could get them done, but in the meantime, theyd have caps to wear that stood up for the actual race.

Turns out we may have settled this - they are getting the shirts pretty much at my cost, and I'm throwing away the caps.

This whole thing has caused our company policy to change, though - from now on, if the items are for a DATED event, payment must be received IN FULL before we start any work. Also - we will no longer take jobs like this from relatively unknown clients without at least 10 working days notice.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Getting a 50% deposit does a couple things for you,, one it helps defray your costs and two it makes the customer take ownership,, set your biz policies and do not alter from them,, thats the best practice, don't bend from your rules. Lesson hard learned,, just pick up and move on


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

When making any custom garment for a time scheduled event, I personally wouldn't accept *ANY* order unless they could be delivered a full ten days before the event. That way if there are any issues, you have time to resolve them.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

It sounds like the customers issue may have been that there was not a complete order ready on time (missing the hats). Maybe the way this customer looked at it, was that you did not complete the entire order on time and he wasn't willing to except a partial order. That could be a tricky situation there. I would in the future stipulate that if part of an order is not available that they are willing to except a partial order. I myself can understand the customers point of view as to not wanting to except a partial order.

When someone orders something from me and expects it by a certain date, they will not be notified to pick up their order until it is 100% complete. If I can not fulfill their whole order I will ask if they are willing to except part, but would not feel they would be in the wrong if they did not. Its apparent that he needed these items for his event and should not have had to except only having part of the items that he needed. Maybe he thought that he could go to someone else to have the whole order done all at once. 

I know its probably not what you want to hear, but the fact that the whole order was not done, would give him an out legally to not accept any of the order because he would not be getting what was agreed upon. Its one of those unfortunate things that sometimes happens in business, where really no one is in the wrong, its just the way the situation is. However I would definitely get a 50% deposit next time as it might be more of an incentive to accept the order as he already has money invested.


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

Bottom line here is you didn't follow your policy and get a 50% deposit; that gave the customer his "out", and even though you may have a signed order, in order to collect, you would have to bring the customer to court & let a judge decide; lots of time & expense on your part.
We have a saying here regarding last minute orders: "The customer's failure to properly plan does NOT constitute an emergency on our part". Simply put, follow your policy, and sometimes rush orders need to be passed on.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Custom orders that are to be done in a hurry, normally require 75% payment up front. Because u would normally concentrate on that job and set aside orders that does not have time costraints. Its like when you are working for someone, and they wanted you to do some overtime, you do not work overtime for the same amount of money ! Treat your orders the same way, charge more, and require more deposits, because if the customer really wanted the merchandise, they will pay for the cost. On the other hand, YOU do not break your rules for a friend, of a friend, of a friend...my brother did that before and ended up eating up the cost. Of course the next time that same customer came to him for a job, by brother required 100% payment and a signed contract for when he required delivery. Customers always find excuses to get discounted prices, but when everything is written in a contract ( do a sample output, have them accept sample quality in writing , like place their signature on a shirt or hat, along with a documentation ) then they can complain all thay want, you have got your money, and they can take you to court at their expense if they are not satisfied.
You improve the wordings of your contract as you gain bad experiences, eventually,throughout the years, your contract will be loophole free. And hopefully you have identified the bad customers.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

OH BTW, youhave to state in your contract that the deposit is non-refundable to defray cost of materials...


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## TeddyRocky (Mar 23, 2007)

We collect full payment upfront before any job is processed. Our sales invoice also states no refunds, all sales are final.

Never had a complaint.

As for the issue with your customer not accepting your order, I would chalk it up to a lesson learned. In all honesty, I would like to side with you, but you cannot blame the customer for not accepting a partial order. Next time, make sure you leave enough time for mistakes and mishaps and always be sure the customer receives or picks up at least 1 entire day before an event. In my opinion, the more you go after the customer for the money, the more they think their important. Pay less attention to them, yet you also have the option of sending them a certified letter with an invoice which also should include a late payment penalty warning. We have had some contract customers not pay after some bad blood, and after some letters from our accountants, they paid instantly as they were afraid of being reported to the credit bureau!

All business' take a loss, and learn from it. Sometimes it's more dramatic then others, but you become a little wiser and thats how business' grow. Think of it as growing pains.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Growing Pains...well said

No Pain, No GAIN, I guess applies to everything we do


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I think you know now breaking your policy of 50% down was a huge mistake. The fact that you were trying to help him out on a rush job is a very nice too, but if you didn't deliver a product(the hats) that was ordered and in the fashion that was specified then you failed your client. I think replaceng the hat at no charge is the right thing to do,not charging for the hats at all, and giving them a discount on the next order. Now all this being said, sometimes a client is never going to be happy and writting them off is better for you in the log run. I always tell people a happy customer will tell 2-3 people and a unhappy customer will tell 15-20 people. I think you should handlethis situation with kid gloves and no matter what you do, I feel this customer will not be happy. If it were me, I would bill him for the order and take him to court to get my money. I think at times you must stand for something or fall for everything(just like the Aaron Tippen song says). I wish you the best of luck and let us know how it turns out. .... JB


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## cookiesa (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm with SunnyDayz on this one.

Perhaps apologise and as him and offer a good discount (After all he has stated to you he is willing to pay, he isn't refusing to). Perhaps there is the prospect of more work or at least possibly some referal work at risk here to?

Look after them well and this may be able to be turned in to a positive. If it were me I would be accepting full responsibility for not be able to deliver what was asked by the deadline. Sometimes sales/being in business is not about being right, even if you are.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, you are lucky that you have not met a customer that are just too demanding. My wife's boss who happens to be lawyer is not the kind of customer you would want to have. I will just give one example of many a transaction that gone awry. A brief background, he owns several local health clubs. He would have his club logo embroidered or screen printed on sportswear which he himself picked. These sports wear are intended to be sold in his health clubs ( his business plan, his execution,your merchandise and your labor ). The embroiderer is contracted to do the embroideries and a separate company to do the screen-printing. The merchandise arrives, he would delay the payment for about 2 to about six months, IF the merchandise sell, he would pay the embroiderer but if the merchandise did not sell, he WILL NOT pay the embroiderer(or the screen printer) blaming them for a poor quality job ( he did this to several local small mom and pops embroiderer). 
NOW tell me, is he right in putting the blame on the embroiderer or the screen printer ? and not paying them because HIS plan failed ? Most of the local small businesses now demands full payment from him whenever he have a job ordered and because a lot of the local businesses will not do business with him, he now have to order his merchandise directly from CHINA where a minimum of 1000pcs is required and payment in full before the merchandise gets delivered. 
So, the customer is NOT always right, there are principles that have to be followed by both parties. Unless of course we as business owners are willing to eat all the expense for some customers lke the one i just mentioned. That is why a CONTRACT is our protection, and the Advance Deposit is our guaantee that we will not lose money from the job even if [email protected]#! customer decided to re-nig on the contract.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Frank, in your situation it is clear that the customer is wrong, as he should have paid for the merchandise when he recieved it. I would not have allowed the customer to take the garments without payment  But the original poster stated that only part of the customers order was ready due to the caps not being done properly. This is clearly a different situation.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

OH NO that wasn't me, I am an embroiderer too, but i separate my business from my wife's work, she is the company controller...CONFLICT of interest. SHE would not want me to do business with her boss anyway. I do symphatize with the several small local businesses that were victims of a lawyers lack of honor though...Remember the case of the Korean dry cleaners in Jersey ?


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## cookiesa (Feb 27, 2008)

Sorry but that is a completely different situation. This post relates to a deadline not being met, (the caps were done but not to a satisfactory quality level) acknowledged by the original poster.

The customer has not delayed payment (again original poster states he didn't follow his own usual guidelines and take a deposit) and the customer has said he will pay but would like a substantial discount due to the deadline not being met.

Unfortuantely sometimes things happen, and usually on the jobs that have a dealine! This post relates, in my mind, more to how you would handle the situation


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## SeasonEnds (Sep 9, 2007)

On a lighter note, I'm glad that you could resolve this issue. We all make mistakes!


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## stitcher (Aug 8, 2008)

This is my bad experience below which I had.
I cross stitched a picture of someone (commission-was to give me about £50 for an old lady and when she got it she counted all the stiches and would not pay me! I stood my ground though and go a tenner of her....
never did commissioning again.


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