# Newbie Experience and Solution with sublimation Black Ink Not Being Black but Brown Instead



## redmarble (Mar 6, 2007)

I was having trouble getting my black color come out BLACK. It was sublimating into: brown, brownish, then grey, and purple. I used Lycra as my substrate. My other colors were coming out washed out and not vibrant. I have been sublimating into fabric for a while so my heat press temp/dwell time settings were not an issue. (I get my sublimated papers sourced out from Mexico. I just press them onto the fabric at my shop.) 

I want to start doing my own sublimation in-house, so I decided to get an Epson WF1100, a CIS, and sublimation ink for "testing". I just wanted to get my "feet wet" and invest as little as possible before I get something more competent for my business. 

Well, the colors were not coming out acceptable. I followed all the settings from the vendor. Installed the ICC profile correctly, but no cigar! After Googling for days and after several hours, I came up with a link to the setting recommendations from sawgrass. Only different setting was the paper type from what I had. And, thought (in minor desperation), why not download the profile, while I was there. So, I downloaded and install the ICC profile for my printer from sawgrass. Well, it worked! My blacks were sublimating solid black. And, the other colors came out vibrant. 

After selecting the Sawgrass profile and choosing Premium Matte paper, all worked great! By the way, I am using Image Right Premium Sublimation Paper from Coastal Business supply, for those interested.*
*
I'm just putting up my experience, here on the web, for anyone who might be in the same situation as I was, and finds this thread. It might work, too, as it did for me.

As for my vendor replying back, well, I'm still waiting for a reply... guess, one less customer!


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## kristencbs (Nov 18, 2011)

Sounds like a great set-up you have going, even for feet-wetting! The WF1100 printer has a great reputation in the industry, and it's one of my favorites.

I'm sorry we weren't able to help you with your initial set-up and install. If you have issues in the future, be sure to call our tech support line so that we can make sure you're taken care of!


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

What inks are you running? Feel free to message me if you want. So you downloaded the Sublijet profile from sawgrass? 

Im not a huge fan of that company as they refused to help me get my 4800 hybrid printing again 4 Artainium and 4 Chromablast which "They Dont Support" and long story short the printhead was ruined from that chromablast sitting in there but I just wanted the Artainium side to print but according to them I now had to buy either 4 more artainium or 4 sublijet inks for their support to talk to me and get it working properly. 

I eventually did a hybrid with Sublijet and Chromablast and the Sublijet came out alright but seemed to be missing way to much variety in the colors with the CMYK setup (probably why sublijet has Blue, Red, and other coiors for the 8 color setup) so I ended up getting a new printhead and switching the 4800 back to epson ink setup now I run a 1400 epson with a 6 color dye sub setup first I did the Artainium cartridges on it and literally after the initial head charge and one head cleaning the magenta was out of ink so that was a really expensive trial. 

But anyways I still have the 5 other artainium inks and CMYK of sublijet and some other misc dye sub stuff. I am thinking of converting my 4000 to a dye sub setup running either sublijet since I have 4 or J-Tek inks which I have heard nothing but great things about due to the richness especially of their black. 

One question for you what DPI or print setting are you running now to get the good blacks printing/transferring? 360? 720? 1440? I see your using the Premium Matte setting but which quality DPI is my main question for you. I have 4 different types of Sub paper and have found 1 of them to be terrible. I still have to test the other 2 samples I have received then I have a full roll of a different type. 

What does everyone suggest is the best sub paper which is available in the states and isnt and arm and a leg expensive? I like to do 13"x19" prints so ideally a 13" roll or 13"x19" sheets are good.


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

What inks are you running? Feel free to message me if you want. So you downloaded the Sublijet profile from sawgrass? 

Im not a huge fan of that company as they refused to help me get my 4800 hybrid printing again 4 Artainium and 4 Chromablast which "They Dont Support" and long story short the printhead was ruined from that chromablast sitting in there but I just wanted the Artainium side to print but according to them I now had to buy either 4 more artainium or 4 sublijet inks for their support to talk to me and get it working properly. 

I eventually did a hybrid with Sublijet and Chromablast and the Sublijet came out alright but seemed to be missing way to much variety in the colors with the CMYK setup (probably why sublijet has Blue, Red, and other coiors for the 8 color setup) so I ended up getting a new printhead and switching the 4800 back to epson ink setup now I run a 1400 epson with a 6 color dye sub setup first I did the Artainium cartridges on it and literally after the initial head charge and one head cleaning the magenta was out of ink so that was a really expensive trial. 

But anyways I still have the 5 other artainium inks and CMYK of sublijet and some other misc dye sub stuff. I am thinking of converting my 4000 to a dye sub setup running either sublijet since I have 4 or J-Tek inks which I have heard nothing but great things about due to the richness especially of their black. 

One question for you what DPI or print setting are you running now to get the good blacks printing/transferring? 360? 720? 1440? I see your using the Premium Matte setting but which quality DPI is my main question for you. I have 4 different types of Sub paper and have found 1 of them to be terrible. I still have to test the other 2 samples I have received then I have a full roll of a different type. 

What does everyone suggest is the best sub paper which is available in the states and isnt and arm and a leg expensive? I like to do 13"x19" prints so ideally a 13" roll or 13"x19" sheets are good.


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## redmarble (Mar 6, 2007)

jfish said:


> What inks are you running? Feel free to message me if you want. So you downloaded the Sublijet profile from sawgrass?
> 
> Im not a huge fan of that company as they refused to help me get my 4800 hybrid printing again 4 Artainium and 4 Chromablast which "They Dont Support" and long story short the printhead was ruined from that chromablast sitting in there but I just wanted the Artainium side to print but according to them I now had to buy either 4 more artainium or 4 sublijet inks for their support to talk to me and get it working properly.
> 
> ...



Getting to the point, I'm using inks from here on my Epson WF1100. The vendor was of no help with their profile. Their profile did not work for me. So I downloaded the profile from here (for the WF1100.) That worked perfect for me! The paper I'm using is ImageRight Premium paper from here, and Ryonet's sub paper (I think they sold out and are now teaming up with Condé to supply sub paper.) Colors are vibrant on both papers. I am sublimating to Lycra. Will be trying with mugs tomorrow.

When working with Photoshop, I use the suggested 300 DPI for all image files. And, RGB.

Color settings for Photoshop CS5 Win:
Working space: Adobe RGB (1998)
CMYK: U.S.Web.....
Gray: Gray Gamma 2.2
Spot: Dot Gain 20%

Color Management policies:
RGB: Convert to Working RGB
CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles
Gray: Preserve Embedded Profiles

Below that, ALL boxes checked

Conversion Options (More Options...)
Engine: Adobe (ACE)
intent: Perpetual

Check boxes: Use Black Point ... and, Compensate for Scene...


When printing, in the PRINT dialog window:

~Under COLOR MANAGEMENT (dropdown):

Color handling:
Photoshop manages Color

Printer Profiles:
ArTanium_UV...... ICC 

Rendering Intent:
Perpetual

Check "Black point Compensation"


~Under OUTPUT (dropdown):

Make sure you have a Check next to "Emulsion Down" as it's this function that inverses the image for sublimation output.

------------------------------------------

Clicking the "Print Settings..." button:

Printer "EPSON WorkForce Series Properties" settings:

(MAIN tab)
Best Photo (Will need to try Photo to see if it is better)
Paper Type: Premium Presentation Paper Matte (as suggested by sawgrass info.)

* under PRINT OPTIONS, ALL boxes are unchecked

(ADVANCED tab)
Under COLOR MANAGEMENT:
ICM
and Check the "Off (No Color adjustment)"


Under PRINT OPTIONS:

ALL boxes are unchecked.


I also have an Epson 1400. But, I use this to print positives for my screen prints. I used to have an Epson 9600 but Sawgrass was of no help in assisting us in converting it for sublimation. We had to look elsewhere for sub prints... we outsourced our sublimated stuff to Mexico. But, once I feel 100 percent confident in working with sublimation, I will be hitting up Graphics One for their 
*GO RIO SUPER BUNDLE *

It's hands down, the best bundle on the market! Screw the monopoly hogs Sawgrass and Geo Knight! My 12k are not going to them... Lol!



The majority, if not all, sublimation printers in Mexico and China use the Mutoh printer for their sub work. They are actually very robust, simple, and trouble-free! Unlike, what sawgrass ink/printers distributors say.


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## redmarble (Mar 6, 2007)

And, Sawgrass, too!


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey! Thanks for your very thorough report!! I appreciate it, I dont always have the best luck with sublimation but most times I get good results just looking for the extra info to help with any parts I may be missing but I know how to print via epsons/DTG/Rips/photoshop/AI/etc very well but was interested in your experience. What did your inkset run you? 

I see you run the " Best Photo" setting which is what I have been playing with. Unfortunately I never have has enough 100% poly test materials to test all the 100 different settings I have etc so I like to hear others results and settings. 

Thanks again very much and if you ever have any questions feel free to message me etc and if you ever need screen printing/DTG/Vinyl/Transfers etc feel free to ask what we can workout on pricing for things you cant do yourself inhouse. Im located in Minneapolis MN and ship worldwide too. Thanks again for your feedback!


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## Cleolivia (May 3, 2013)

redmarble said:


> Getting to the point, I'm using inks from here on my Epson WF1100. The vendor was of no help with their profile. Their profile did not work for me. So I downloaded the profile from here (for the WF1100.) That worked perfect for me! The paper I'm using is ImageRight Premium paper from here, and Ryonet's sub paper (I think they sold out and are now teaming up with Condé to supply sub paper.) Colors are vibrant on both papers. I am sublimating to Lycra. Will be trying with mugs tomorrow.
> 
> When working with Photoshop, I use the suggested 300 DPI for all image files. And, RGB.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the detail!

I do have issues getting dark black on majority polyester sock substrates, using cobra inks and CIS, 150 dpi photoshop files, in our Epson 1100 and never thought of this possible fix

Will let you know if new icc and color management tweaks work, don't want to change dpi though.... It's hard enough as it is trying to convert kids cellphone pictures into print ready graphics!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Cleolivia said:


> Thanks for all the detail!
> 
> I do have issues getting dark black on majority polyester sock substrates, using cobra inks and CIS, 150 dpi photoshop files, in our Epson 1100 and never thought of this possible fix
> 
> Will let you know if new icc and color management tweaks work, don't want to change dpi though.... It's hard enough as it is trying to convert kids cellphone pictures into print ready graphics!


Suggest not to use those settings, those are for Artainium inks and not Cobra. I have a WF1100 and Cobra inks and get great blacks and color overall.

This is transfered poly I did. 

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/42505d1378948699-cant-get-accurate-colors-even-profiles-installed-wf1100_target_on_poly.jpg[/media]

If you PM me I can email a setup guide.

Note that Cobra is switching inks so if your re-order then you would have new profiles BTW.


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## Cleolivia (May 3, 2013)

i didn't mean use HIS icc, just a sawgrass icc matching my substrate/paper (dyetrans)...

I know Richard is very busy, but he should've at least told his secretaries to inform customers when they reorder! when is the switch happenening... will figure out how to PM you now, thanks very much!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Cleolivia said:


> i didn't mean use HIS icc, just a sawgrass icc matching my substrate/paper (dyetrans)...
> 
> I know Richard is very busy, but he should've at least told his secretaries to inform customers when they reorder! when is the switch happenening... will figure out how to PM you now, thanks very much!


I'm not clear on your comment, for Cobra inks you need a Cobra ink profile and the correct setup instruction. I just heard of the ink switch recently so don't know the how and whys yet.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Jafhmes said:


> just a sawgrass icc matching my substrate/paper (dyetrans)...


The ICC should match the inks first and foremost. If you have an ICC from Sawgrass that would be for Artainium inks, Power driver is for Sawgrass inks, it's a utility with color correction that is more advanced than just an ICC.

If you have a different ink than Sawgrass provides then those inks need their own color correction unique to those inks.


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## Jaelmosley (Dec 31, 2014)

I saw in your post that you were getting your dye sublimation papers from Mexico. Do you mind sharing the company? I have the money and time to hear press my own clothing items but not for the dye sublimation printer?
This would help A TON with my business.
Thank you


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## rocha wear (Aug 27, 2013)

How much money is involved with starting in house sublimation?


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## sraufstok (Oct 24, 2015)

I have a problem, because when printing some photos thats seem not to have a real black colour. It's more like dark blue or dark gray. So when I put it on the 100% polyester t-shirt it's look like washed colour (not vivid).
I have an epson WF2510
Where can I get an ICC for my printer, or did I really need it. How to set black to be real black.
Any idea?
Thanks


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## Artmanic (Feb 5, 2018)

sraufstok said:


> I have a problem, because when printing some photos thats seem not to have a real black colour. It's more like dark blue or dark gray. So when I put it on the 100% polyester t-shirt it's look like washed colour (not vivid).
> I have an epson WF2510
> Where can I get an ICC for my printer, or did I really need it. How to set black to be real black.
> Any idea?
> Thanks


Hello, this is my first post so forgive me if I get things backwards a bit. I was looking for a solution to sublimating a "black" that actually looks black and I didn't see any solutions, I sublimated two Peaky Blinders texts, one in black and one with a grunge texture. The full black came out brown (see large print on the left in the pic) and the grunge came out blue grey (see the right print in the pic) but the full colour images were pretty close so I knew there was something that could be done. I have an old epson sx415 max print size A4 (I actually bought another one for £20 on eBay once I realised they could be fitted with CISS bulk ink systems) I fitted one with a CISS tank (£22) and cheap sublimation inks (£9) and the other with cheap pigment inks (£14) for inkjet transfer printing, I also couldn't find any free ISS profiles for my printer and I certainly can't afford to pay someone to write me one and whilst I realised it might be down to my cheapo set up I still had to try to find a solution the hard way, study! I served my time as a printer 37 years ago and I remembered we used to mix our own "rich" black ink from all of the CYMK set depending on bleed and substrate. I checked the black my printer was outputting and it was C-0 M-0 Y-0 K-100, this will not look black. The darkest black from CYMK is C-75 M-68 Y-67 K-90 but this isn't the whole answer. We see in RGB, monitors, tv's etc. are RGB so you need to design in RGB which is where Photoshop comes in. You need to select R-0, G-0, B-0, but the printer will still balls this up when it comes to print from the CYMK set. Answer? Design your image and text in Photoshop RGB or import it and convert it to RGB go to File>Print and when the dialogue comes up you need to select Printer Set Up>Print Settings>Advanced tab select ICM or equivalent and TURN OFF colour correction/colour adjustment, then in the "Photoshop Print Settings" under Colour Handling select "Photoshop Handles Colours">Normal Printing>Rendering Intent, set to Perceptual and Black Point Compensation ticked. Now you should get Rich Black as in the text on the "Smiley Watchmen" print (in the middle of the pic) I hope the pic does it justice but take it from me this worked on my cheapo set up so something similar should work for you. I printed on "Best Photo" on "Standard Paper" setting using Jet Stream Digital F35 A4 Sublimation Paper onto polyester twill cloth (should be much better on jersey cloth). Sorry about the swear words in the image.
http://bit.ly/2tg9a3l


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## MountainBike (Mar 15, 2019)

I am having serious trouble printing a really nice black. Any CMYK Color Setting we choose comes out with blue tint. I thought it was the fabric but it does it on multiple fabric types. 

We are using the following printers and software:

Epson SureColor F6200 44in 

Wasatch Softrip (Terrible Customer Service btw)

Epson Sublimation Inks

Joto Adheasive Tacky 105g Sublimation Paper

I don't know how to set up any color settings other than the actual CMYK Color Codes in Adobe Illustrator.

We print mostly vector graphics for mountain bike gear.

If anyone can help me it would be greatly apprecited as I have a project coming up that is going to require a lot of black jerseys. I don't want to let the customers down.

PLEASE HELP!!


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## Crowmatic (Jul 18, 2018)

Have you tried adjusting your colors in the graphics program? We had issues with this until we went in and chose true black in photoshop or illustrator. We had to change all values in C,M,Y,K to 100%. This will make the black truer black.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

I use Ross Hardies sublimation ink without a profile and colors are great. www.inkjetinks.us
AL


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Too much heat too long.


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