# 56 different users with DEAD Ricohs & SG Inks



## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

So to help dissipate my anger and get an idea of how many people have posted about a Ricoh printer dying with Sawgrass inks in them I did a search in just this forum group of dye sublimation and just for the word DIED. 
In these topics 
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t134734.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t142943-7.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123-23.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t163735.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t128167.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t76533-4.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t135496.html

I counted 56 different users saying their Ricoh's died with Sawgrass Inks in them. And several had 2 and 3 printers die on them. !!!

And it was sad in many cases were in one thread many including me so announced how great the printer was doing only to see in another thread that their printer died some time later. And quite a few were AFTER the alleged its FIXED announcement by David Gross. One person posted the Sawgrass announcement but I couldn't find it again to see that date to compare to that.

56 doesn't sound like alot U guess but thats 56 GRAND in cash down the fricken tubes for us the purchasers not including those that bought a second one or got ripped off by SG and received one of the smaller ones with some free ink. 

Almost every post said the same issue. Turns off. And when you turn it back on , power comes on, blinks yellow and goes back off. SAME ISSUE for 99.999% of the reasons for the printer not working.


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

Did you find mine? If not +1

Conde did stand by the machine though, sent me a loaner and a couple months later I had a new 7000 and an extended warranty. Knock on wood - the second machine has been fine, but it would be a very hard decision to buy another one unless the reputation swiftly turns around.

What p*sses me off the most is just Sawgrass themselves. I want nothing more than for someone to defeat them in the patent battle.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Yep got your name on my sheet here, last one I added.


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## isasuleahmed (Jan 28, 2012)

freebird1963 said:


> Yep got your name on my sheet here, last one I added.


Hi Guys, I have two Ricohs that died in my office - the latest one yesterday.
_I bought the first one from MAGICTOUCH UK and the second one from GIFIC (nigeria) LTD - she got from Sawgrass._
_I know two other companies the buried Ricoh in Nigeria._

_ISA S. A._


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

57 now. And another mulitple one. Amazing.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

Add one more. 



I have a 3300 that died a few months back. Was told Sawgrass would help in some way to get the printer replaced/repaired. Today I was told that they do not help and that there ink is not at fault. They actually told me Ricoh would have honored the warranty if it had happened in the fires year, just one issue, using any ink other than Ricoh in the printer voids the warranty. 

I am thinking we all need to get together and start a class action law suit against Sawgrass. I am contacting the US Consumer Products Division today about this and would ask that all others that have issues with Sawgrass ink in any printer do the same. 

We have a lot of issues with Sawgrass like for instance, we found out after the fact that they had told users not to use outdated cartridges (which we didn't) and to remove cartridges when they go out of date. They also say don't remove the cartridges until empty, guess were the date is? You have to remove the cartridge to get the date. 

It seams to me that they are using us as there test lab. Why invest in testing when you let the users purchase the equipment and buy your products and see if anything goes wrong. I don't know about you all but I don't like spending my hard earned money to do the testing for a big company. 

Anyway I would like to see what they say if a class action suit is filed or the government tells them to stop selling untested products. 

I am out of the dye sub business until I can find another supplier and reliable equipment.


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## SuicideCharley (Feb 10, 2012)

So is it the printer or is it the ink?


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## danarkett (Dec 4, 2011)

Am not a sawgrass user but I was looking into it last year.
I inquired and talked to my heat transfer supplier (very popular heat transfer supplier) and they said "not to even think about it."
And so I did.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

I see my thread on there. Do you have me down as a multi-loser? 2 dead.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Yeppers. Counted only users tho. There were more than a few users with 2 and 3 dead machines. Very sad indeed.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

we are on our 3rd 1280 in more than 5 years of doing this. not too bad, we buy refurbs for $200 with a tradein.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

SuicideCharley said:


> So is it the printer or is it the ink?


 I am a systems analyst by profession and have been working on and with printers now for over 30 years. The system board is being loaded up at the print head or the cartridge circuitry that is causing the power supply to crow bar. Crow bar is when the processor or system kills all power to itself due to an overload. 
This issue has two possible causes: 
1-ink in the cartridge is corroding the cartridge electronics causing a short that is then causing the system board to crow bar. 

2- (more likely cause) the ink in the print heads starts to leak due to the chemical makeup of the ink, binder, or carrier crowding away the head that then shorts out the print head causing the system board to crow bar.

This is not a problem that is caused by the printer, I don’t think, although the printer apparently is not the best printer on the market. This is strictly a problem caused by the ink. I would also like to add that while on the phone with SG they totally and completely blamed Ricoh and stated that they have lots of these 3300 and 7000 model printer failing with SG ink and the Ricoh ink. This was SG’s attempt to take the heat from them and place it back on Ricoh.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

freebird1963 said:


> Yeppers. Counted only users tho. There were more than a few users with 2 and 3 dead machines. Very sad indeed.


 I would like to see a class action law suit against SG and Ricoh on this issue, but thinking about it today I may try what the woman did to Honda last month. She didn't look to take them for a huge amount of money, she sued in small claims court and won. 

I wonder if SG and Ricoh would send anyone to answer a small claims court case in a small town in Arkansas or if I would win because they didn't answer the summons. Think I will try it. It only cost $50 to file which is less than the cost of one of the cartridges they sell us to test for them. 

Maybe all us desktop users should file small clams cases against them. I bet they would sit up and pay attention then.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

davej1956 said:


> I am a systems analyst by profession and have been working on and with printers now for over 30 years. The system board is being loaded up at the print head or the cartridge circuitry that is causing the power supply to crow bar. Crow bar is when the processor or system kills all power to itself due to an overload.
> This issue has two possible causes:
> 1-ink in the cartridge is corroding the cartridge electronics causing a short that is then causing the system board to crow bar.
> 
> ...


Great post and information. Sawgrass and their Cartel members used this same strategy with Epsons. They used this pitch to sell Ricohs at 4-6 times the cost of an Epson printer claiming that you could buy the Ricoh and not have the clogging issues when used infrequently. After a year of knowing about the significant failure rate they change their tune and admit just like the Epson when you use poor quality ink you have to print frequently with the Ricoh or you will have issues.

To me if anyone is going after someone legally you go after the low hanging fruit - distributors. They are the ones that made the claims that the Ricoh was the solution to the dye sublimation people who did not print everyday. It is the distributors who kept selling these products knowing that there was a significant issue for over a year. It is the distributors that failed to warn any new customer of the on-going issues with the gel ink.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

binki said:


> we are on our 3rd 1280 in more than 5 years of doing this. not too bad, we buy refurbs for $200 with a tradein.


1280 what? Is this a Epson?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

davej1956 said:


> 1280 what? Is this a Epson?


The 1280 is an older Epson model no longer sold.


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## SuicideCharley (Feb 10, 2012)

Hmmmm, so probably not worth the risk to buy a used ricoh 3300 for a great price. What are some good printer/ink combos that folks are using as alternative to this?


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

I am using an Epson Wokforce 1100.

-James


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

and were you getting ink from since cobra is no longer selling its hi temp ink ?


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

You can get chinese inks from a number of suppliers and Artainium from Sawgrass.

Try eBay and Amazon. If the supplier does not have an ICC profile you can some one (or more) made.

You can even get inks like J-Teck. The vendors really don't ask questions but you would have to buy liters usually.

-James


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

Riderz Ready said:


> Great post and information. Sawgrass and their Cartel members used this same strategy with Epsons. They used this pitch to sell Ricohs at 4-6 times the cost of an Epson printer claiming that you could buy the Ricoh and not have the clogging issues when used infrequently. After a year of knowing about the significant failure rate they change their tune and admit just like the Epson when you use poor quality ink you have to print frequently with the Ricoh or you will have issues.
> 
> To me if anyone is going after someone legally you go after the low hanging fruit - distributors. They are the ones that made the claims that the Ricoh was the solution to the dye sublimation people who did not print everyday. It is the distributors who kept selling these products knowing that there was a significant issue for over a year. It is the distributors that failed to warn any new customer of the on-going issues with the gel ink.


Actually only a few of the distributors made that claim.

The claim stemed out of several press releases from SawGrass that stated that these printers were a 'God Send' so to speak.

If the ink causes the problem then SG should be held accountable, not the people who were forced to distribute the products


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> Actually only a few of the distributors made that claim.
> 
> The claim stemed out of several press releases from SawGrass that stated that these printers were a 'God Send' so to speak.
> 
> If the ink causes the problem then SG should be held accountable, not the people who were forced to distribute the products


Alpha supply review  (dyesubinks.com)

Ricoh Inkjet Sublimation Printers

"The printer/ink system is *remarkably trouble free*. As part of our testing, we did not use the printer for 30 days. On the 31st day we ran a nozzle check and noticed a few broken lines. We did one head cleaning and our second nozzle check was perfect!"


As you can see from the various threads here for "doorstop" Ricohs, _not printing_ often is a contributing factor to their demise, you _imply_ that it is a good printer to not print frequently from.


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> Alpha supply review  (dyesubinks.com)
> 
> Ricoh Inkjet Sublimation Printers
> 
> ...


We did not 'IMPLY' anything. That was the test as stated and it DID it perfectly.

I would love a different sub solution. So we are investigating all possiblities with that in mind.

Also for the price paid, the Ricoh system is still cheaper even if you buy two printers a year.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

TooGoob said:


> Actually only a few of the distributors made that claim.
> 
> The claim stemed out of several press releases from SawGrass that stated that these printers were a 'God Send' so to speak.
> 
> If the ink causes the problem then SG should be held accountable, not the people who were forced to distribute the products


First, I would guess three US distributors make up 90%+ of Sawgrass desktop ink sales.

Second - Let us say you own a car dealership and you become aware that one of the models you sell has an inherent issue that is causing numerous complaints from the people who purchased them.

a. Do you keep selling that model for a year plus and continue to place the blame on the manufacture?
b. Do you ever warn a potential customer that there is problems with the model they are considering?

For anyone to continue to sell a faulty product for over a year and continue to blame the manufacture is irresponsible to their their customers. For one to claim they are "forced" by Sawgrass to sell such products raises ones eyebrow. 

The only time a manufacture and their controlled distributors get away with something like that is when they have a monopoly/cartel that controls virtually the entire market.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> We did not 'IMPLY' anything. That was the test as stated and it DID it perfectly.
> 
> I would love a different sub solution. So we are investigating all possiblities with that in mind.
> 
> Also for the price paid, the Ricoh system is still cheaper even if you buy two printers a year.


I can give you a pass on what Alpha advertised at the time, no one at the time could forsee the future. However, the claim _is still existing_ on the Alpha website and the _future_ has transpired since. 

While it might have been true on your narrow 30 day testing _then,_ we all now know that the defects take longer to manifest than 30 days, based on numerous user reports.

While you state that there is no "implication" to the statement I think any reasonable thinking person reading could easily read into the statement on the Alpha website as "As part of our testing, we did not use the printer for 30 days. On the 31st day we ran a nozzle check and noticed a few broken lines. _We did one head cleaning and our second nozzle check was perfect!" _and was clearly stated as "Reliable", therefore they could expect the same results. There is no stretch of the imagination that one could read this as using the printer infrequently was OK.

As to your statement ...

"Also for the price paid, the Ricoh system is still cheaper even if you buy two printers a year."

I would argue that proper context is required, if you are claiming this based on ink savings then that is only valid for those that use enough ink volume?

Can you provide a TCO economy breakdown vs. a comparable Epson and show your math?

Also, you are passing the blame onto SG but at the same time stating what a good deal the printer is? You want it both ways?


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

Riderz Ready said:


> First, I would guess three US distributors make up 90%+ of Sawgrass desktop ink sales.
> 
> Second - Let us say you own a car dealership and you become aware that one of the models you sell has an inherent issue that is causing numerous complaints from the people who purchased them.
> 
> ...


Yes 'forced' is not a bad word lol! Options are not available that are more economical for our customers. And we also give our customers the information about the printer NOT being as good a printer as a much more expensive setup. ($479 vs. $1350).

I beleive Sawgrass may have thought about that as well.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> Yes 'forced' is not a bad word lol! Options are not available that are more economical for our customers. *And we also give our customers the information about the printer NOT being as good a printer as a much more expensive setup. ($479 vs. $1350).*
> 
> I beleive Sawgrass may have thought about that as well.


Can you clarify that. Which printers are you comparing? And what options are not available that are more affordable? You need context to your statements. Specifics please.


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> Can you clarify that. Which printers are you comparing?


Oops the price actually is $1314 for a 1400 Startup Deal with *Printer.*

This is getting out of hand since we as a distributor did not cause the problem and we STILL do not have a true statement of the cause (other than an educated guess). We inform our customers that call for advise about printer selection that the Ricoh system has some issue of pre-mature failer from a still undocumented problem. We would like to see Ricoh's report about this situation.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

TooGoob said:


> Oops the price actually is $1314 for a 1400 Startup Deal with *Printer.*
> 
> This is getting out of hand since we as a distributor did not cause the problem and we STILL do not have a true statement of the cause (other than an educated guess). We inform our customers that call for advise about printer selection that the Ricoh system has some issue of pre-mature failer from a still undocumented problem. We would like to see Ricoh's report about this situation.


The vast majority of people that recently bought a larger scale Epson have purchased a WF1100. We just bought one for office use for just over $100 with free shipping. 

Ricoh has no stake in this issue as it is not their problem. Their printers seem to work fine when not using Sawgrass ink. Cartel members have tried to drag Ricoh into this multiple times just as they did previously with Epson.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> Oops the price actually is $1314 for a 1400 Startup Deal with *Printer.*
> 
> This is getting out of hand since we as a distributor did not cause the problem and we STILL do not have a true statement of the cause (other than an educated guess). We inform our customers that call for advise about printer selection that the Ricoh system has some issue of pre-mature failer from a still undocumented problem. We would like to see Ricoh's report about this situation.


That is _your_ startup deal. The WF1100 can be found at $129, refillable carts are $25 and Artainium inks are $300 for a CMYK set now on ebay everyday.


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## uglovdkg (Jan 3, 2012)

I just both the 3300 and it's still in the box, maybe Ishoul dconsider a return


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

Riderz Ready said:


> The vast majority of people that recently bought a larger scale Epson have purchased a WF1100. We just bought one for office use for just over $100 with free shipping.
> 
> Ricoh has no stake in this issue as it is not their problem. Their printers seem to work fine when not using Sawgrass ink. Cartel members have tried to drag Ricoh into this multiple times just as they did previously with Epson.


Where is this information coming from that Ricoh printers do fine with regular ink. I would be interested in reading it. If it comes from Ricoh I would have duobts about it since it would back up Ricoh's claim about the cause.

I do not have a clue about the cause as of yet from a reliable source. Please share your source for us to see for ourselves please.

The price structure for the 3300 is still cheaper than the setup for an Epson 1100 printer as well at $869. The price per print are nearly the same but the initial startup cost for the 3300 is cheaper. That is the ONLY reason people buy this setup.


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> That is _your_ startup deal. The WF1100 can be found at $129, refillable carts are $25 and Artainium inks are $300 for a CMYK set now on ebay everyday.


That is a great price for ArTainium ink since the ink is only sold in 125ml bottle (packaged as a unit from SawGrass ddistirb's) for about $140 a bottle.
Are you sure those are ArTainium inks? Are they really not outdated? (this has been an issue before from several customers).

Special note - Sawgrass does not support any ink bottle sales for any other printer than the old Epson 1280. The WF1100 only comes in bags legitimately. If the ink is old it WILL damage the printer and SawGrass will not honor any claims for warranty. ANY other sales violate a patent they own so I cannot sell the ink in that manner. But if it works for you then I am happy for you but I would not be the one to tell you that is the way to go since you really ARE on you own.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> Where is this information coming from that Ricoh printers do fine with regular ink. I would be interested in reading it. If it comes from Ricoh I would have duobts about it since it would back up Ricoh's claim about the cause.
> 
> I do not have a clue about the cause as of yet from a reliable source. Please share your source for us to see for ourselves please.
> 
> The price structure for the 3300 is still cheaper than the setup for an Epson 1100 printer as well at $869. The price per print are nearly the same but the initial startup cost for the 3300 is cheaper. That is the ONLY reason people buy this setup.


With the 3300 you are comparing a 8 x 14 printer to a 13 x 19 WF1100. Even with that, the list price of a GX3300 alone is at least the price of a WF1100 if you do a best price web search. So if as you claim the price of the inks are about the same, 

then as you stated ...

"_Also for the price paid, the Ricoh system is still cheaper even if you buy two printers a year."_

So if the inks are the same economics, and the printers are the same cost (albeit a smaller Ricoh printer vs. a larger Epson) how can 
*"*_*Also for the price paid, the Ricoh system is still cheaper even if you buy two printers a year."* _be true?

Now let's compare _comparable_ printers the WF1100 vs the GX 7000 ?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> That is a great price for ArTainium ink since the ink is only sold in 125ml bottle (packaged as a unit from SawGrass ddistirb's) for about $140 a bottle.
> Are you sure those are ArTainium inks? Are they really not outdated? (this has been an issue before from several customers).
> 
> Special note - Sawgrass does not support any ink bottle sales for any other printer than the old Epson 1280. The WF1100 only comes in bags legitimately. If the ink is old it WILL damage the printer and SawGrass will not honor any claims for warranty. *ANY other sales violate a patent they own so I cannot sell the ink in that manner.* But if it works for you then I am happy for you but I would not be the one to tell you that is the way to go since you really ARE on you own.


There is no law that states I cannot purchase bulk SG inks and place in a WF1100. _And those inks are not expired. _

Please point to language in the SG patent Patent US5488907 - Permanent heat activated transfer printing process and composition - Google Patents that specifies I have to use SG "bags".

_You_ may have a agreement with SG not to sell in that manner, but what keeps me from pouring inks originally purchased under _license_ into any Epson desktop printer I choose?

Also, Sawgrass sold CMYK bulk bottle sets, the 1280 was a 6 color set. Several of the "authorized" dealers still sell those for the C8X.


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> With the 3300 you are comparing a 8 x 14 printer to a 13 x 19 WF1100. Even with that, the list price of a GX3300 alone is at least the price of a WF1100 if you do a best price web search. So if as you claim the price of the inks are about the same,
> 
> then as you stated ...
> 
> ...


I stated also that the ONLY reason to buy was the startup price but any color is only $63 per versus WF1100 bag for $140 (when not buying a knock-off).

And you can do what you want to with any ink but you are on your own if it fails. Which by the way is happening to a lot of people who are purchasing illeagle inks that were split out of a larger bottle. AND there is also the issue about the age of the inks being purchased from eBay and the like since the one who split the ink puts his own date on them.

I am bound by a contract to only sell the packaged inks as they come so who is taking a risk here me or you? Your risk is less but can get expensive in the future or maybe you are one of the few lucky ones to get only good ink.

I offer only choices, none of which are trouble free and that seperates pro's from everyday users. Unfortuanatly anything man-made will give trouble, wear out or just plain fail eventually.

I am still waiting for the source for the printer working ok with Ricoh inks in them versus any others.

Note - The 7000 does not seem to have this issue either is this because the printer has better parts? I am not sure but the 7000 is much more in price and does last longer. But they both have the same print head in them do they not?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> I stated also that the ONLY reason to buy was the startup price but any color is only $63 per versus WF1100 bag for $140 (when not buying a knock-off).
> 
> *Those inks are knock-offs? You mean they are counterfeit? *
> 
> ...


Please see above.


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## TooGoob (Jul 20, 2007)

*"But if as you claim the re-labled bottles were actually really expired, but the stated expiration was "spoofed"and users complained, how would they, or you, know they were expired..."*
You don't, its kinda the point. Some customers had an obvious problem when the ink they got had chunks or crystalization in it.

*"..how inks can be the same economy (your statement), and printers can be at the same cost, then how can your statement be true."*

Now this is a toughy since I said the cost per is the same sorry its not. Here are the numbers I have:

GXe3300: $479 / 400 prints = 1.197 per 8x10 (60ml cartridge)
WF1100: $865.50 / 700 prints = $ 1.236 per 8x10 (110ml bag)

The WF1100 will take even more head cleanings to maintain (only experience tells me this) which also means for new-comers also need to use it more often. I like the WF1100 size ability, definitely a plus. I am not taking sides as to which to buy since both WILL give trouble.

People weigh their own options for choices in every case. Most customers choose only by start up cost and not longevity. And so far I have heard more problems about the 3300 than the 7000 or the new WF1100 to date. I did not count the problems here it was based only on the customers I have that tell me this. I would think both Ricoh's have the same problem since they have similar designs (vaguely) but the much more expensive machine may get more complaints on here, dunno that one.

...and finaly.
*If it is the OEM printer fault then why does Ricoh not honor the OEM warrenty when SG inks are used?*
For the same reason a dog licks himself, because they can. Who will sew them for a $179 printer that died to early with no proff of the cause?

Hope that answers most of the questions without sounding like a "knoiw-it-all" I only have my customers comments to let me know whats what.


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## jmatson (Nov 11, 2011)

My 3300 died last week. I am waiting on US Cutter to provide me with a receipt so i can warrenty this sucker out. I bought it on 10-31-11. I have 617 prints.


I think people should post how many prints they got until it died. That will give us a idea how long they are lasting.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

TooGoob said:


> *"But if as you claim the re-labled bottles were actually really expired, but the stated expiration was "spoofed"and users complained, how would they, or you, know they were expired..."*
> You don't, its kinda the point. Some customers had an obvious problem when the ink they got had chunks or crystalization in it.
> 
> *No it's not "kinda the point", the point is that you cannot know the root cause failure, you and the strawmen users you reference are speculating. *
> ...


Markups above in brown.


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## jmatson (Nov 11, 2011)

Ricoh is replacing my printer and they know I use sg inks.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jmatson said:


> Ricoh is replacing my printer and they know I use sg inks.


As I read thru the various posts here and on the other dead Ricoh threads many users have stated SG is responsible. Perhaps you are an exception or they changed their policy. It's just what I have read here.

You can start here ...

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t128167.html#post761913


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

To be honest it amazes me a vendor brought this issue up again. I thought they all learned to just let it die and not expose them for their errors.


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## jge (Oct 7, 2008)

I have a few GX3300's running in my office with Ricoh inks (not sublimation). Though 1 died at 4,000 prints, the rest are all fine. One printer has just hit 30,000 prints !


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

TooGoob said:


> We did not 'IMPLY' anything. That was the test as stated and it DID it perfectly.
> 
> I would love a different sub solution. So we are investigating all possiblities with that in mind.
> 
> Also for the price paid, the Ricoh system is still cheaper even if you buy two printers a year.


Any printer you purchase that becomes a paper weight after 12 to 18 months is not a good deal no mater how you look at it. IT IS NOT NOR WILL IT EVER BE COST EFFECTIVE as you say to purchase even 2 a year when these printer, due to [email protected]# ink are destroyed. Why you ask? Example: you spend $400 for the printer and ink, you go through the first set of cartridges and make $150 to $200 in sales, you spend another $200 for new cartridges, this because you have to run head checks and cleans when not using every day thus flushing $100 of the ink down the drain, then yiou make another $150 in sales and the printer fry's. So when you put a pencil to it the first printer and supplies ran you $600 and you took in $300. I think you calculator has the same issue that the Ricoh printer has, or maybe you are running SG ink in it!!!!


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

TooGoob said:


> Yes 'forced' is not a bad word lol! Options are not available that are more economical for our customers. And we also give our customers the information about the printer NOT being as good a printer as a much more expensive setup. ($479 vs. $1350).
> 
> I beleive Sawgrass may have thought about that as well.


From what i see it doesn't mater what you pay for the Ricoh printer, if you put SG ink in it then it has been placed on death row. With appeals it may take it a year and a half to get the needle but rest assured the needle is coming.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

TooGoob said:


> Where is this information coming from that Ricoh printers do fine with regular ink. I would be interested in reading it. If it comes from Ricoh I would have duobts about it since it would back up Ricoh's claim about the cause.
> 
> I do not have a clue about the cause as of yet from a reliable source. Please share your source for us to see for ourselves please.
> 
> The price structure for the 3300 is still cheaper than the setup for an Epson 1100 printer as well at $869. The price per print are nearly the same but the initial startup cost for the 3300 is cheaper. That is the ONLY reason people buy this setup.


Again you aren't completely correct. We purchased it for one reason only, we were told you did not have to use it every day. That as long as you did a print of some kind once a week it would last and perform without clogs or other issues for the life of the printer.


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## personalizeit3 (Feb 12, 2011)

jemmyell said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am using an Epson Wokforce 1100.
> 
> -James


 
I am currently using the workforce 1100 with pigment inks and wanted to try a 2nd one with sublimation ink. I am going to a "show" next weekend sponsored by Conde so they will probably be showcasing Sawgrass ink. May I ask what ink you use? And... are you happy with your outcome on items with sublimation. I am wanting to expand, but not ready to spend $2K on a printer. TY!!!

Allison
Personalize It


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

I was using Sawgrass but i wont again. Sawgrass is a sorry company feeding on the small business. Conde is a upstanding company and stand behind what they seel. They are the only ones that have but i wouldn't put Sawgrass ink in anything other than a printer you purchase from Conde with an extended warranty so you can get a replacement in a year when it fry's.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

davej1956 said:


> I was using Sawgrass but i wont again. Sawgrass is a sorry company feeding on the small business. Conde is a upstanding company and stand behind what they seel. They are the only ones that have but i wouldn't put Sawgrass ink in anything other than a printer you purchase from Conde with an extended warranty so you can get a replacement in a year when it fry's.


You thinking selling ink at $2,000 a liter is a bit much?


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## personalizeit3 (Feb 12, 2011)

davej1956 said:


> I was using Sawgrass but i wont again. Sawgrass is a sorry company feeding on the small business. Conde is a upstanding company and stand behind what they seel. They are the only ones that have but i wouldn't put Sawgrass ink in anything other than a printer you purchase from Conde with an extended warranty so you can get a replacement in a year when it fry's.


I am in Mississippi so the closest "bigger" city would be New Orleans or Mobile. I have to travel an hour or more to see demonstrations. I recently found the webinars by Sawgrass (even though I have read horrible things about them) to learn the process of sublimation. Of course the show I am attending is sponsored by Conde in Mobile. I haven't seen any come to New Orleans recently. For starters, could I start with the Workforce 1100 and different inks and if so what inks do I google now. Sawgrass was all I have seen so I dug in deeper and that is how I found all the negative posts. I don't know where to go from here? Thanks!! I am trying to buy the printer and inks by end of July and hopefully be able to do some items for Christmas. Any direction would be appreciated. thanks!


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

You can buy inks on Amazon, be sure to get an ICC profile. You can get refillable cartridges for the WF1100 from Corbainks.

-James


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Why in the h would people go this direction when you can buy your art printed and ready to press?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

skdave said:


> Why in the h would people go this direction when you can buy your art printed and ready to press?


Lots of reasons. In fact why didn't you just have someone print your stuff ?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

personalizeit3 said:


> I am in Mississippi so the closest "bigger" city would be New Orleans or Mobile. I have to travel an hour or more to see demonstrations. I recently found the webinars by Sawgrass (even though I have read horrible things about them) to learn the process of sublimation. Of course the show I am attending is sponsored by Conde in Mobile. I haven't seen any come to New Orleans recently. For starters, could I start with the Workforce 1100 and different inks and if so what inks do I google now. Sawgrass was all I have seen so I dug in deeper and that is how I found all the negative posts. I don't know where to go from here? Thanks!! I am trying to buy the printer and inks by end of July and hopefully be able to do some items for Christmas. Any direction would be appreciated. thanks!


I am the furthest thing you can get from supporting Sawgrass and their cartel BUT the real world is dye sublimation is not always as easy as some make it out to be. There are so many things that have to align to produce professional results thus you really need a company like Conde, Johnson Plastics, etc to hold your hand while you learn. That means sucking it up and purchasing Sawgrass ink. Does not mean you should not educate yourself and blindly get pushed into a very expensive Ricoh because they make more money selling them than an Epson.

Bottom line is with a Ricoh or an Epson you need to use the printer or you will have significant issues.

Once you understand the process and everything that goes into successful results it is up to you whether you venture out and look at ways to improve your products and lower your cost.

Best of luck to you


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## personalizeit3 (Feb 12, 2011)

Riderz Ready said:


> I am the furthest thing you can get from supporting Sawgrass and their cartel BUT the real world is dye sublimation is not always as easy as some make it out to be. There are so many things that have to align to produce professional results thus you really need a company like Conde, Johnson Plastics, etc to hold your hand while you learn. That means sucking it up and purchasing Sawgrass ink. Does not mean you should not educate yourself and blindly get pushed into a very expensive Ricoh because they make more money selling them than an Epson.
> 
> Bottom line is with a Ricoh or an Epson you need to use the printer or you will have significant issues.
> 
> ...


Thank you! That is why I want to go spend the day in Mobile to see the demonstrations and etc. to understand fully before I jump in with both feet. I sincerely appreciate both of you for taking the time to answer a few questions. So if I choose to buy something at the show which is sponsored by Conde then they normally do a warranty and replacement heads and what not. This is kinda what I am reading all over the board. I think that is why I was looking at starting on a lower budget scale of the Epson workforce 1100 or the 7010.

Ty again. Just trying to learn as much as I can before next Sat. so I can ask questions without being taken advantage of at the show.


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## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

*The Printing Dead and the Umbrella Corporation*

Freebird, you may be starting the process that affected users need to follow through with an action against SG. I haven't had my 3300 tank yet, but I've been monitoring this issue on-and-off in the event that it does. 


> (by SuicideCharley) So is it the printer or the ink?


The anecdotal evidence we've seen implies that the fault lies with the ink, because the internet is not filled with a huge number of Ricoh owners having issues with OEM ink (just assuming that the majority of these printers overall are not being used for sublimation). Further information provided by Dave gives us a possible failure point in the printer due to the sublimation inks...



davej1956 said:


> I am a systems analyst by profession and have been working on and with printers now for over 30 years. The system board is being loaded up at the print head or the cartridge circuitry that is causing the power supply to crow bar. Crow bar is when the processor or system kills all power to itself due to an overload.
> This issue has two possible causes:
> 1-ink in the cartridge is corroding the cartridge electronics causing a short that is then causing the system board to crow bar.
> 
> ...


The Sublijet R MSDS reveals that this ink contains:



> Ingredient Name CAS# Concentration (%) SARA 313
> Proprietary Dye --------- < 5 NO
> Proprietary Organic Materials --------- < 20 NO
> Di(ethylene Glycol) 111-46-6 < 25 NO
> ...


My chemistry is rusty, but you definitely do not want to ingest the contents of a cartridge. Good ol' DEG is partially responsible for the existence (and overreach) of the FDA and ATF. (Tangent - better for an off-topic thread.) But my reference to that is to posit that a possible issue could have been the manufacturer substituting a greater amount of DEG in the formula in place of more expensive Glycerine. It's been established that chinese manufacturers have done this multiple times (e.g., cough syrup, toothpaste, pet food). I know, the pet food was adulterated with melamine, not DEG. But melamine is found in some yellow inks. 
(Everyone putting it together so far?)

So what if:
- Unbeknownst to SG, their manufacturer "tweaked" the recipe a bit to gain more profit?
- That formulation change affected the stability of the ink containment (cartridge/tubing) materials and/or caused the degradation of the print head and printer components?

If my dental fillings are picking up the right frequency, then as soon as SG became aware of the issue was when it became less difficult for "the printing dead" to get satisfaction. 

So to get back to what you started freebird, to come up with a definitive answer to the issue and possibly the framework for the class action that some are discussing, more data should be gathered.

The following information should be gathered from both the printing dead and those of us who have yet to become infected:

Ink lot #s, expiration dates, purchase dates, install dates, # of pages printed, etc. 

Ricoh models, mfg dates, serial #s, date of purchase, place of purchase, date placed in service, date died, etc.

Where the users are located (to see if the inks could have been subjected to extreme temperatures during shipping, warehousing, etc.) 

If that data produces any patterns, then we might finally know what happened and if there is anything that could be done about it. If it doesn't, we can chalk it up to experience and move on.

This really needs a database and front-end entry form living on a server somewhere. It would be fun to code, but the only thing I might have time to build would be a big spreadsheet with a form front-end. But that might be okay, because we could use Google Docs and post a link to download the live spreadsheet so everyone could play with it and crowd source the results. 

I also think it would be fun to run GCMS on known dead printer inks, good ones, new, and expired; but I parted out my last Mass-Spec to repair a flux capacitor for a crazy white-haired guy and his teenage sidekick.

I'll leave this as a suggestion/theory/crazy rant and let everyone else decide if it merits further development. 

If no one will ever sell me SG ink again, I guess I'll know that I was right.


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## Malpeque (Dec 21, 2011)

I see Conde is being very QUIET about this issue and they often have something to say when it suits them lets hear from them.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Malpeque said:


> I see Conde is being very QUIET about this issue and they often have something to say when it suits them lets hear from them.


Suits them ? Think your thinking is totally off on this. David has been hear many times taking care of issues users have had. 
Second why don't you you just call them and ask. ?? 

Maybe you haven't heard from them cuz the issues have seemed to die down. Hasn't been any major posts about failures so maybe the problem has been corrected as was stated by Conde some months ago.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

freebird1963 said:


> Suits them ? Think your thinking is totally off on this. David has been hear many times taking care of issues users have had.
> Second why don't you you just call them and ask. ??
> 
> Maybe you haven't heard from them cuz the issues have seemed to die down. Hasn't been any major posts about failures so maybe the problem has been corrected as was stated by Conde some months ago.


Some reports of dead printers have been floating around recently, but not as many as was going back a few months.

I don't have the numbers so I am just speculating but I would assume that since the last generation models are now out of production, and there was some delay for the US vendors getting the newer models into their stock, then defect reports have died down partly due to the sales volumes sold in the last 6 months. 

Also, since the awareness of the problem surfaced those that read forums probably got spooked away from making a purchase further reducing sales. Lower sales volumes = lower defect reports.

I think "the fix" was largely telling users to make sure they use the printer more often, this is based on the fact that many of the posts were from infrequent users, some stated they use a lot, but most were entry level users without any significant established business.

So I think the jury is still out on the defect root cause. The problem I see with the new models is that past failures with the previous generation took some amount of time before they manifested, so a certain amount units have to get out in the field and be used (or not be used very often) before any real determination if the problem went away or not.

I agree about Conde David, he could have hid under his desk when this fire erupted, but he did show up and take the heat.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I have had a busy summer teaching around
the country. I am happy to comment on any
issues.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Conde_David said:


> I have had a busy summer teaching around
> the country. I am happy to comment on any
> issues.


David
My question is have the GX-7000 sales dropped quite a bit and is that a reason for the decline in dead printer issues ?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

The 7000 has now been replaced by the 7700.
Sales of 7000 have been extremely high.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

What current Epson desktops are supported for dye sublimation?

It looks like with the patents expiration on the horizon that Sawgrass and their Cartel members are going to the extreme and pushing people on Ricohs.

If this market was not so tiny I believe the Feds would be all over the price fixing and gouging that happens to desktop users.

Will be fun to watch the scrambling when desktop users are set free in 2014.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I find it difficult to follow the patent dates.

Yes, I am studying regarding a 13x19 epson
solution.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Be sure and mark 9/1/2014 on your calendar.

Brother MFC-J6510DW | Color Inkjet All-in-One w/ Duplex Printing

Piezo 11 x 17 print AND 11 x 17 scan $229.99 list price, street price somewhere lower. The scanner alone is almost worth the price.

Aftermarket refillable carts are _100 mL_ capacity each color (yes carts not CIS)

Bye Bye Sawgrass


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Conde_David said:


> I find it difficult to follow the patent dates.
> 
> Yes, I am studying regarding a 13x19 epson
> solution.


'907 expires 9/1/2014

This is the patent they litigated.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I have looked at the Brothers.
I really like some of the new epson's because
they will do 13x19

Thanks for the date.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Conde_David said:


> I have looked at the Brothers.
> I really like some of the new epson's because
> they will do 13x19
> 
> Thanks for the date.


13 x 19 is a plus. Means you can do 12 x 12 tiles. Tshirts I can live with 11 x 17.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I stand by my comments.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Thread note: *some off topic and bickering posts have been moved out of this thread. Let's keep things professional please ​


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## Xpert Apparel UK (Jul 18, 2009)

Another 3300 died today, piece of s##t, still got a new set of cartridges for it, so buying another printer for £115 UK, cheaper than throwing the inks away.


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## Crazyplums (Nov 28, 2012)

you can add myself and at least three colleagues on uksignboards.com who have this issue, at least one guy has two dead printers and our UK distributor simply offers the same rubbish deal (2 carts if you buy a new ricoh 7000) as sawgrass do. 
H


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## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

Yep, mine died last month in the middle of a job. The only useful information David gave me was the SG number for their print services. The other information he gave me was incorrect. In fact, when I told the SG rep that he said 6mo instead of 90 days, she made that Marge Simpson growling sound... Don't get me wrong, David was great on the phone, but in email, when I told him I was unhappy with my Conde rep and requested someone else, he forwarded that email to her. From then on out, all I get is "your rep can handle that". Then SG messed up two print jobs. My rep has been mentioned before on these boards, I know I'm not the only one that is unhappy with her. She claims not to get emails, doesn't respect my communication preferences, will not put a price in any email or will not answer a question about price, "call me"; I CAN'T! I have a day job and I tell you that EVERY TIME I SEND YOU AN EMAIL! 

You know what's funny is that I actually wouldn't be so upset, and would put up with all of this, if she hadn't implied that I was a liar early in our relationship. A catalog with samples of ribbon, yes, probably the cheapest thing they sell, was damaged by the post office and the ribbons were lost. I was working with a school at the time and really would've liked to have the sample, so I told her what happened. Instead of sending me another ribbon, her attitude was that I was only trying to get free stuff, (this was a phone call, it's not like I misinterpreted the intention of an email) that really turned me off to Conde.
Johnson is closer and LRi is cheaper. I've actually met the Johnson guys in person... I haven't seen a Conde booth, rep, or presentation at any of the 10 shows in 3 states that I've gone to in the last 2 years. 

If they would have told me the special price on the replacement printer the first, second, or third time I asked for it, I probably would have gotten it. Hell, I would have given David my cc number for it when I talked to him, but apparently he cannot do sales.

To add salt, I got a follow up email from SG to make sure my issue was resolved. I relayed the above and asked if any other distributors besides Conde participated in the program. Their response was to forward my email to my Conde rep! 

I knew the printer would die eventually, but I am really beyond frustrated with how SG and Conde have addressed my concerns. You'd think a Southern company would have better manners, or at least know better than to imply that a Texan, _especially_ an Aggie, is a liar.

On a related note, I now have about $4000 worth of sublimation blanks for sale, and a mug press. I may have a ceremonial bonfire to cleanse the evil from my shop instead.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

You are correct. Sawgrass was offering 6 months free 
printing and changed it to 3 months without
telling us. Sorry for the mis information.


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## tsub67 (Jul 14, 2012)

Wow, you must have the exact same rep I have with Conde. When I get damaged goods I'm made to feel like I'm trying to get free stuff too.

Maybe I should just ask for a new rep.

A bad apple in a company can really make them look bad (assuming it's the same person).


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## ECi_Luke (Mar 1, 2010)

We lost a GX 7000 a few months ago. Ink leaked onto the circuitry and fried it. Now we have a smaller/cheaper Ricoh. The only problem I have now is I can't get a bright red.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Are you using an icc profile?


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## ECi_Luke (Mar 1, 2010)

I contacted Conde and they installed one. It fixed a problem with lines in the print, but not the reds.

sRGB IEC61966-2.1

Photos print great, it is just blocks of color like vector art.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I suggest you print a color chart.
Email me and I will send it to you.
[email protected]


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

I am a little disappointed in Conde, when I purchased a GX7000 from them last year no one mentioned any of these issues. I guess its buyer beware. It looks like they were just trying to get rid of as many as they could and did not care about failure rate.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Riderz Ready said:


> What current Epson desktops are supported for dye sublimation?
> 
> It looks like with the patents expiration on the horizon that Sawgrass and their Cartel members are going to the extreme and pushing people on Ricohs.
> 
> ...


Laser Printers still offer transfers to apply to substrates. 

Okidata C711wt is a Laser Printer with White Toner. It's a 2 step process, but it does have White. No sublimation has White as of yet. 

The Okidata Laser Printer costs about $3300. The cartridges print about 6000 plus sheets.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

ECi_Luke said:


> sRGB IEC61966-2.1


I know nothing about how the Ricoh printers work, but this is a document profile, not a printer profile. Adobe RGB 1998 and this sRGB profile are the two most common profiles used to manage colors within a document. They maintain color fidelity between computers, programs, and users. Printer profiles are separate, and are unique to specific printers and inks.

You can print with the Adobe RGB or sRGB profile and it'll look okay, but not great. 

Again, apologies if the Ricoh's running SG inks do something different, but this just seems odd to me.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

You are corrected. I missed his message.
That is the wrong profile.


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## ECi_Luke (Mar 1, 2010)

I sent an email. The file I have was installed by a conde tech via remote, so I'm not sure why it would be wrong.


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

go with epson, I'm looking to buy any WF1100 . anyone hear about epsons new dtg printers at long beach? anyway have a nice day uncletee.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Uncle Tee, Are you saying Epsons making their own DTG or Made their own DTG?


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## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

tsub67 said:


> Wow, you must have the exact same rep I have with Conde. When I get damaged goods I'm made to feel like I'm trying to get free stuff too.
> 
> Maybe I should just ask for a new rep.
> 
> A bad apple in a company can really make them look bad (assuming it's the same person).


Don't bother, I asked for a different rep a couple of times and my requests were either ignored or forwarded to the rep I'm unhappy with. Except for participation in the program that Sawgrass is providing, does anyone else notice a distinct lack of concern on Conde's part? Even before my Ricoh died, I'd have to spend 2-3 days running in circles to get my partnerNet account to work...every time. Secure websites and databases are not that hard, neither is basic customer service. I have yet to meet someone that had a complaint that was contacted for a resolution. There were 6 of us at lunch at ISS Ft. Worth that all decided that Conde is not interested in customers that have complaints, everyone had a similar cold-shoulder story.

Since I asked Sawgrass and haven't gotten a response, does anyone know if another vendor is participating in the replacement printer program? I'd like to replace the printer, but I'm not going to spend weeks playing games to find out how much.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

tankueray said:


> Don't bother, I asked for a different rep a couple of times and my requests were either ignored or forwarded to the rep I'm unhappy with. Except for participation in the program that Sawgrass is providing, does anyone else notice a distinct lack of concern on Conde's part? Even before my Ricoh died, I'd have to spend 2-3 days running in circles to get my partnerNet account to work...every time. Secure websites and databases are not that hard, neither is basic customer service. I have yet to meet someone that had a complaint that was contacted for a resolution. There were 6 of us at lunch at ISS Ft. Worth that all decided that Conde is not interested in customers that have complaints, everyone had a similar cold-shoulder story.
> 
> Since I asked Sawgrass and haven't gotten a response, does anyone know if another vendor is participating in the replacement printer program? I'd like to replace the printer, but I'm not going to spend weeks playing games to find out how much.


I have no problems with Conde. I get excellent support from my rep and from tech support. 

The partner net is a nuisance. I hate when I try to get a template from the product page and login to it and then says I'm not logged in but it takes a few minutes of fiddling to get it to log me in. If it takes you 2-3 days I'd say its on your end not theirs. 

And I am no big customer either. Don't think I have ordered in a month or so, so its not like they are kissing my butt to keep my business.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I spend just about my entire day helping our
clients. If I can be of service in solving a problem
or assigning a new sales rep let me know.

Regarding partnernet, we do have some problems.
If a template is missing you get a login error.
We are working on a complete rewrite.

How was ISS? The crew reported back that
it was a great show. Did everyone notice that
Epson introduced their sublimation printers?


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## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

Conde_David said:


> I spend just about my entire day helping our
> clients. If I can be of service in solving a problem
> or assigning a new sales rep let me know.
> 
> ...


David, I sent two emails to you and talked to you on the phone about a different rep. On the phone, when I said I wanted a different rep, you asked who I had and said that you'd have her contact me. Feeling like you'd just blown me off, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, i thought maybe you didnt understand what i was asking. So I emailed you twice with information in increasing detail about why i was so unhappy, and you forwarded those emails in their entirety to my rep. Like above, you're asking about ISS Long Beach when I clearly referred to Ft. Worth. 

The most important thing I learned about customer service: make sure you understand what your customer is asking, not what you think they're saying. Determine the right question, give them the right answer, the first time. I get hundreds of emails a day too, yet when I am asked a question, I take the time to answer it properly. 

Freebird, it's not on my side. I'm quite adept at building and maintaining databases and secure websites. It takes me 2-3 days of constantly sending emails to support to get the downloads to work, because all I ever get is a generic "your partnernet account has been activated" email. In fact, I just looked...I sent one at the end of November (with screen shots) to the immediate assistance email, and I never got a response. 

It has been infinitely more frustrating going through "the fix" than it would have been just writing the whole thing off. So many of us are frustrated over these printers' early demise anyway, and Conde comes in as the White Knight, but I'm here to say that they are not. Seriously, how hard is, "I want the replacement, how much is it? Please give me another rep., here's my credit card number." to understand?

Also of interest from my real-life conversations with other unhappy Conde customers is that when we try to complain to Conde via their channels, no response or request for more information is given; leaving us to have heated lunch conversations at shows or vent our frustrations on forums such as this one.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I am sorry for me dropping the ball.
Would you send me a message with your phone
number so I can call you?
I did see you were talking about ft worth.
Long beach ended on Sunday so it was
on my mind and yes I do have a bad case
Of ADD!

Again sorry.


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## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

I had some issues with the iPhone cases being cracked. Conde was actually very quick on getting me replacements and the issue resolved. I was VERY IMPRESSED.

My rep is on the ball and is always contacting me about my order. I will email him and he will get back to me with my incessant questions. 

If a template is missing, I just email my rep and he gets back to me or one of Conde's support techs get back to me on what I need.


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## figure8 (Feb 9, 2008)

My gx 7000 died also


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

this thread started over 2 1/2 years ago. My 7000 went almost 3 years. I think the 7100 is doing better..have not used it as I have a DTG and have no use for regular printer for garments


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## figure8 (Feb 9, 2008)

i just wanted t be counted... Mines died 1 1/2 yrs ago
Would not just give them my money again.


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