# Which ink - PhotoEz?



## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Hi All,

Need some help. I've decided to have a burl at using the PhotoEZ kit I've just found from EZScreenPrint. Basically, I'm trying to assess whether or not it would be good enough to produce 1 colour print shirts for commercial sale. I have a few single colour designs, and have been asked several times now when these will be available on coloured shirts, which I currently can't do well because I'm using only heat transfer.

So, my question...which inks should I buy with it? They sell Speedball, Versatex or Jones Tones. I really like the idea of the Jones Tones glitter inks, although I'm not sure what is special about the glitter/paint combination. Could you use the same technique with regular glitter and say, the Speedball inks? I'm thinking Jones Tones ink may not be a good ink for a complete beginner because they say it dries quite quickly.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me?

Thanks,
Kath


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> Basically, I'm trying to assess whether or not it would be good enough to produce 1 colour print shirts for commercial sale.


Should be fine, assuming their stencils can hold a decent resolution (I have no experience with the product, but it should work as advertised - in general home kits (like Print Gocco, Speedball kits, etc.) can be used to create commercial prints).



funtimesx said:


> I'm thinking Jones Tones ink may not be a good ink for a complete beginner because they say it dries quite quickly.


They're all waterbased inks, so they all dry quite quickly. Some may have more retarder than others (they claim the Versatex is "slow drying", though I suspect slow is very relative), but none can be left unattended.

So long as you keep printing it's fine. You can stop printing to prep the next shirt, etc. just don't go off and do something else and come back. Since you'll only be printing one colour it shouldn't be hard to keep the ink from drying in the screen.

I wouldn't take the decision _too_ seriously at this point though - whatever ink you get with the kit, you most likely won't be using that brand again after you run out.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Actually I don't think Jones Tones is a waterbased ink after all (I assumed it was because the other two are). In fact as near as I can tell it's not even an ink, it's paint (it's sometimes hard to tell if people are just using terminology incorrectly or not, but it would appear it is actually a fabric paint and not a screenprinting ink). In that case... it probably would dry out even faster.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Solmu - thanks heaps for the useful information. I was hoping you'd reply, you're my screen printing guru around here! 



Solmu said:


> I wouldn't take the decision _too_ seriously at this point though - whatever ink you get with the kit, you most likely won't be using that brand again after you run out.


Um.... What else would I be using? How would I be working out I'd want a different ink and where would I get it from? Part of the appeal is not only being able to print on coloured material, but I'd also like a reasonably soft hand. Would I be better off just buying the screen kit from them and ink from somewhere completely different?

When you say as long as I keep printing I'll be fine...the site says to drop the screen straight into water or I won't be able to get the ink off. I assume that's just because they're thinking you'll only print one at a time? So if I was doing a run of say, 5 shirts, I could print, prep, print, prep, etc. for all five before I had to wash out the screen?

Also, do you have any idea on the glitter/paint system they're using? They seem to be claiming the Jones Tones paint (ink?) doesn't need to be heat set, so TBH I'm not sure why their glitter is so much more special than glitter I'd get at a regular craft store? In fact could I just use fabric paint from the regular craft store, or is it like heat transfer paper - you can get it at retail, but it's not as good?

Thanks again,
Kath


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I wouldn't take the decision _too_ seriously at this point though - whatever ink you get with the kit, you most likely won't be using that brand again after you run out.


What makes you say that Lewis? Is it the printing kit or the inks? Or do ppl tend to move on and try different stuff when they are new...?


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

funtimesx said:


> When you say as long as I keep printing I'll be fine...the site says to drop the screen straight into water or I won't be able to get the ink off. I assume that's just because they're thinking you'll only print one at a time? So if I was doing a run of say, 5 shirts, I could print, prep, print, prep, etc. for all five before I had to wash out the screen?


I hope Shirley from ezscreenpring sees this question. Kathy if you email her can you post the answer here? Thanks


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> Solmu said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't take the decision _too_ seriously at this point though - whatever ink you get with the kit, you most likely won't be using that brand again after you run out.
> ...


I would assume you'd move on to a different brand of ink, sourced locally. I admit I haven't ran the figures, but I assume it would be a lot cheaper to buy a kilo of ink locally than ship it from the US.



funtimesx said:


> How would I be working out I'd want a different ink and where would I get it from?


The type of ink should be fine, the brands just vary from country to country so if you were to buy it locally (granted that is an *if*) it would be a different brand (well... you can buy Speedball from art supply shops here, but it costs a fortune and most of the reviews I've heard for Speedball weren't _that_ favourable anyway).

It's not that there's anything wrong with their ink, just that I think that it would be cheaper here.



funtimesx said:


> Would I be better off just buying the screen kit from them and ink from somewhere completely different?


Probably. There are two good screen print supply companies in Melbourne, and others interstate. If you want some idea of local prices so you can compare just give me something specific (e.g. "A 500ml tub of orange ink costs ... ?" "A 4 litre tub of black ink costs ... ?") and I can look it up for you.



funtimesx said:


> When you say as long as I keep printing I'll be fine...the site says to drop the screen straight into water or I won't be able to get the ink off.


When I said you'll be fine I was thinking it was a waterbased ink... with the Jones Tones I'm not so sure actually. I've only ever printed with screenprinting ink, so I don't know how well other things work. Basically I was running on an incorrect assumption on the Jones Tones.

Waterbased ink will be the same in that if you let it dry in the screen you won't be able to get it off without a degrader (at which point you're now dealing with nasty chemicals).



funtimesx said:


> So if I was doing a run of say, 5 shirts, I could print, prep, print, prep, etc. for all five before I had to wash out the screen?


With waterbased inks, yes.



funtimesx said:


> Also, do you have any idea on the glitter/paint system they're using?


Unfortunately not. I've never experimented with glitter (not really my thing).



funtimesx said:


> In fact could I just use fabric paint from the regular craft store, or is it like heat transfer paper - you can get it at retail, but it's not as good?


I think sometimes fabric paint is just waterbased screenprinting ink, and sometimes it's something different. I do know that the screenprinting ink you buy in art supply stores is generally the same stuff you'd buy from a screenprint supplier, just in smaller quantities and at higher prices. For example when I was starting out I was recommended _Melbourne Etching Supplies_ where I mistakenly bought some equipment. It's a beautiful store full of gorgeous supplies and nice staff, but their screenprinting equipment is a rip-off.

You can buy Aquatex ink in 100g bottles from _Clint's Crazy Bargains_ (it's sold as fabric paint)... or the same stuff in 20kg buckets from a trade supplier (um, not that you _have_ to buy 20kg worth).


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Annushka said:


> What makes you say that Lewis? Is it the printing kit or the inks? Or do ppl tend to move on and try different stuff when they are new...?


Nothing like that, just taking into account that Kath is in Melbourne, Australia and EzScrenPrint are in Arizona, USA.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Okay... I just checked the postage cost on 35 ounces (1kg) to Australia.

Near as I can tell the postage alone would cost almost three times what the ink would cost here for transparent ink (for light fabric), or about the same as the ink for opaque ink (for dark fabric). And that's just the shipping cost, not including the cost of the actual ink.


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## Quattroporte (Dec 27, 2006)

The Circuit Bridge Store: Basic Starter Kit with PhotoEZ

I reccomend this store for photoEZ. It's much cheaper there. And if you want to upgrade to StencilPro, it would be a similar price to what you're paying with EZScreen.

StencilPro is supposed to be more durable, but it's made by the same company. ^_~


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Solmu, thank you again.

The stuff you meantioned from Crazy Clints, is that "commercial quality"? If you wouldn't mind, can you post some places that are Melbourne based where I can get these kinds of things - or you can PM me if you don't want to post it publicly?

I think for right now I will just order the screen kit with no ink - I can work on the ink problem while I wait for it to arrive . I'd rather start out testing with the same materials I'd be using for "production runs" iykwim?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> The stuff you meantioned from Crazy Clints, is that "commercial quality"?


As far as I know it's the exact same ink. I scored some from a lost property office, but I haven't actually used it yet. It's made by the exact same company (under the exact same name), has the exact same heat set requirements, is listed as "screenable", and has the same consistency as screenprinting ink. So while I can't say for sure it's the same product, it's fair to say I'd be rather shocked if it wasn't  It's just marketed as "fabric paint" because that's a bit friendlier to the general public I think.

The biggest difference is that you'd be paying $3 for 100g instead of $11.88 for 1kg or $34.15 for 4kg.

(100g actually goes a reasonable way though, so as a sample or for someone who only wanted a small number of prints it's not a terribly bad deal).

(the stuff I'm talking about here is Aquatex ink by Dynamic Coatings if you're looking for it by the way)



funtimesx said:


> If you wouldn't mind, can you post some places that are Melbourne based where I can get these kinds of things - or you can PM me if you don't want to post it publicly?


I'll PM you the contact details for the two larger suppliers. I know some art supply stores stock this kind of stuff as well, but I don't know who specifically because I don't buy it there.



funtimesx said:


> I'd rather start out testing with the same materials I'd be using for "production runs" iykwim?


Yeah, makes sense. You're not likely to notice _much_ of a difference between brands, but they do differ.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Just thought I'd post and say I've just ordered the PhotoEz kit with no inks (I'm going to source the ink locally). But I am mainly posting to say their customer service is EXCELLENT!

I had some problems with their web order form, so I have had some email and phone exchange with Shirley there, who is absolutely lovely and was most helpful.

Especially considering the extremely low value of my order (just the one kit, with no inks or accessories), I'm very impressed. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll be able to post that the kit rocks too .


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

funtimesx said:


> So if I was doing a run of say, 5 shirts, I could print, prep, print, prep, etc. for all five before I had to wash out the screen?


Kath,

when you say "prep" what exactly do you mean by that? Soaking in the water? Or quickly rinsing it through?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Annushka said:


> when you say "prep" what exactly do you mean by that? Soaking in the water? Or quickly rinsing it through?


You wouldn't do either between prints.

"prep" is taking the last shirt off and putting it wherever you're putting them, getting the next shirt ready to print on, fussing aound with anything that needs fussing, etc.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

^ What Solmu said - I was referring to removing the shirt and laying down the next one ready for printing, without having to rinse the screen in between.


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

OK, thanks guys. Does anyone know the maximum amount of shirts one could make before it's time to rinse the screen? I know this will vary on person's speed, design size etc etc. Approx. number. Or maybe the time frame, let's say try to do as many as you can in 20 minutes than rinse...


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Annushka said:


> Does anyone know the maximum amount of shirts one could make before it's time to rinse the screen?


If you keep printing the ink stays wet and the screen won't dry out, so in theory there is no limit.


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

Thank you Lewis, that sounds good.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Is that true for all inks? I get the impression that Jones Tones stuff is supposedly different - if you were using that rather than regular screen printing ink, would is possibly "clog up" over time?

ETA: And OMG, what on earth were you doing up so early!! LOL!


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> Is that true for all inks? I get the impression that Jones Tones stuff is supposedly different - if you were using that rather than regular screen printing ink, would is possibly "clog up" over time?


Yeah, I think the Jones Tones might be different.

The regular ink can actually clog up over time too - if it's particularly hot out, if you're flashing the shirts on a t-shirt platen and getting back flashing (not a concern for basic home printing), etc. But that kind of thing can be largely avoided by just not putting too much ink into the screen at a time, and topping it up with fresh wet ink from the container as needed. Or spritzing the screen with a myst of water (that can adversely affect your print if it goes awry though).

Basically it does have the potential to clog and dry, but it can also be kept from getting to that point.



funtimesx said:


> ETA: And OMG, what on earth were you doing up so early!! LOL!


I'm not up early, I'm up late. Really, really, really late  I was wondering what you were doing up so early, 'till I remembered you have twins


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Ah, OK. I guess this is all stuff you learn as you go along - do people tend to "wreck" screens in this process (by clogging them up with ink)? Is there something stronger than water you can use to remove the ink if you do stuff up and get it clogged?

And this might sound really dumb, but what is "flashing the shirt"?

LOL about the time. Yep, have to get up that early so I can have my breakfast before the critters demand theirs (oh boy am I looking forward to the day they can spoon feed themselves!) - but I was in bed at 9:30 last night, so it kinda works out. I can't imagine "staying up" until that time!


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> Ah, OK. I guess this is all stuff you learn as you go along


Yep, you'll pick it up.



funtimesx said:


> do people tend to "wreck" screens in this process (by clogging them up with ink)?


I'd speculate that most wrecked screens come from people leaving them and going off to do something else, rather than it unexpectedly clogging up on you. You can feel the ink drying out on you as you print, and it gets harder and harder to get a good print. If you keep printing it might dry out on you, but if you're getting to that stage it's pretty obvious you should wash out the screen and call it a print run (at that stage it still won't be too late to just wash out the screen).



funtimesx said:


> Is there something stronger than water you can use to remove the ink if you do stuff up and get it clogged?


Yes. Occasionally screens get so bad the mesh is a write-off, but normally they can be rescued one way or another. Even if the mesh is a write-off you can at least get the screen re-meshed. Obviously that's an expense you'd rather avoid, but it's not a total disaster.



funtimesx said:


> And this might sound really dumb, but what is "flashing the shirt"?


Not dumb - "flashing the shirt" is using a flash curer to dry the ink while the shirt is still on the platen, in between printing colours. It heats up the platen, and can cure the ink in your screen (which is backflashing). Most home printers won't be using a flash curer.



funtimesx said:


> I can't imagine "staying up" until that time!


If I was rich I'd be eccentric


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

Does anyone know if it's possible to use this product with plastistol inks?


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

Annushka said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to use this product with plastistol inks?


Yes, I found out, you can use it with plastistol. It's just cleaning the stencil might be messy.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Often the emulsion you use for one ink isn't compatible with the other (it degrades over time), but this product might be able to do both.


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

Lewis, does that mean that screenprinters usually have separate screens for different inks?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Annushka said:


> Lewis, does that mean that screenprinters usually have separate screens for different inks?


A lot of screenprinters will only use one or the other (just plastisol or just waterbased). I imagine those who use both would have different emulsions on hand for each type of ink (it wouldn't be a big deal), but you'd have to ask them


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## Annushka (Jul 26, 2006)

THanks Lewis. I'll try to find out how this product works in this case and if the same screen is compatible for both inks.


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