# [speedball kit] Can't seem to get a decent print... blotchy prints



## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

Alright...I need some troubleshooting help because I'm about to drive myself crazy trying to figure out what I am doing wrong! I got a speedball tool kit about 2 weeks ago since I already had some speedball fabric ink so I could try screenprinting. 

I thought I would have trouble with the emulsion and exposure since that seems to be the part where most newbies have problems, but that was the EASY part. I've done quite a few test prints and they all come out the same. They are all blotchy and some parts might come out nice while others not so much. 

These are the prints I did tonight.

[media]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Duh-chan/paperprintblack.jpg[/media]

[media]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Duh-chan/shirtprintblack.jpg[/media]

[media]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Duh-chan/paperprintred.jpg[/media]

[media]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Duh-chan/shirtprintred.jpg[/media]

I did the black prints first with a nickle & penny stuck to the bottom sides for contacts. I flooded the screen first for these as well and pulled at a 45' angle. For the red prints I only used pennies for contacts and did NOT flood the screen before hand. I pulled at a 60' angle. For some reason the red prints came out better despite not flooding? Not sure why that is because from what I have seen flooding seems to be pretty important. I also pulled multiple times for each print.

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Is speedball fabric ink waterbased? If so, the ink may be drying in the screen a little.


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

TshirtGuru said:


> Is speedball fabric ink waterbased? If so, the ink may be drying in the screen a little.


Yes it's waterbased. I was thinking that too maybe...should I use a spray bottle with water on it? I think that is what I have seen suggested. But should it be doing this on the very first print?


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Panduhmonium said:


> Yes it's waterbased. I was thinking that too maybe...should I use a spray bottle with water on it? I think that is what I have seen suggested. But should it be doing this on the very first print?


Depends on how fast you are doing the first print. But flooding IS needed when printing with waterbased or else it WILL dry.

Spray bottle of water will help. What type of squeegee are you using?


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

TshirtGuru said:


> Depends on how fast you are doing the first print. But flooding IS needed when printing with waterbased or else it WILL dry.
> 
> Spray bottle of water will help. What type of squeegee are you using?


I'm just using the squeegee that came with the kit. That could also be the culprit...but I saw another topic on here with a guy who had the same kit as me and successfully printed a shirt so I was hoping I could at least print one shirt with it!

Here's the squeegee though: Amazon.com: 9 IN. RED BARON SQUEEGEE: Kitchen & Dining

Thanks for helping btw!


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh! Good news!  I sprayed the underside of the screen with water before I printed and the print came out considerably better! I rubbed the trouble spots with water and did another test print and it came out perfect! So I then tried printing on a shirt and it came out pretty good. Still some spots that could be better but SO much better than before! Yay!


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## hdem (Mar 1, 2008)

That squeegee looks like the same type of tool I use to apply die cut vinyl onto signs. That is not the proper type of squeegee to use for screen printing.

you're squeegee should look like that: [media]http://www.printcutsew.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/squeegee.jpg[/media]

not like this: [media]http://www.specialty-graphics.com/media/ProductImages/squeegee_applicators.jpg[/media]


also with water based ink you must print fast and keep screen flooded between prints so it won't dry in the screen.


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## Rexx (Aug 13, 2009)

I think those kits come with a 110 mesh though wouldnt the ink just run through it if you flooded between prints


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

hdem said:


> That squeegee looks like the same type of tool I use to apply die cut vinyl onto signs. That is not the proper type of squeegee to use for screen printing.
> 
> you're squeegee should look like that: [media]http://www.printcutsew.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/squeegee.jpg[/media]
> 
> ...


I can always get another squeegee...that was just the one that came with the kit. I also had a question about the top picture of the squeegee you posted, should you have a squeege that has a flat bottom like that? or a round bottom? Cause I know at the art store here where they sell speedball screenprinting stuff, the "fabric" squeegees are rounded and the "graphic" ones are flat like the one in your top picture.

And I'm printing as fast as I can...but it does this on the VERY first print as well. I would say the first print would be the fastest anyway because you already have the stuff set up and then you put the ink on, flood, pull. But all other prints you have the extra step of bringing another thing in to print.

And yes Rexx, from what I have read the speedball kits come with a 110 mesh screen so...I do see why I am having so much trouble...other than they put the wrong kind of squeegees in their kits lol.


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## Catspit (Jan 27, 2010)

Panduhmonium said:


> I can always get another squeegee...that was just the one that came with the kit. I also had a question about the top picture of the squeegee you posted, should you have a squeege that has a flat bottom like that? or a round bottom? Cause I know at the art store here where they sell speedball screenprinting stuff, the "fabric" squeegees are rounded and the "graphic" ones are flat like the one in your top picture.
> 
> And I'm printing as fast as I can...but it does this on the VERY first print as well. I would say the first print would be the fastest anyway because you already have the stuff set up and then you put the ink on, flood, pull. But all other prints you have the extra step of bringing another thing in to print.
> 
> And yes Rexx, from what I have read the speedball kits come with a 110 mesh screen so...I do see why I am having so much trouble...other than they put the wrong kind of squeegees in their kits lol.


 
You definitely should replace your squeegee. I would recommend a cut edge, rectangular squeegee for working with textiles. The ink sheer is better with a rectangular squeegee and holding the squeegee at different angles will give you some control over ink flow and deposit. For water based inks you will definitely need to back flood between prints. That means do your print and then flood the screen with ink before moving to the next step. Most often when working with water based inks a mesh count higher than 110 is used because water based inks tend to be very liquid and will “flood” out the design too easily ruining detail. However, using a higher mesh count will also increase problems with ink drying in the screen. But a higher mesh count will allow for back flooding between prints. So ultimately I think a higher mesh count will be better to work with water based inks. You can also increase the relative humidity in your print room. The more humid it is, the slower the ink will dry. There are also additives called “retarders” for water based inks which will slow their drying times a bit, decreasing the problem of ink drying in the screen. And some people simply use a water spray bottle and wet the screen between print such as you are already experimenting with. Good luck!


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

Catspit said:


> You definitely should replace your squeegee. I would recommend a cut edge, rectangular squeegee for working with textiles. The ink sheer is better with a rectangular squeegee and holding the squeegee at different angles will give you some control over ink flow and deposit. For water based inks you will definitely need to back flood between prints. That means do your print and then flood the screen with ink before moving to the next step. Most often when working with water based inks a mesh count higher than 110 is used because water based inks tend to be very liquid and will “flood” out the design too easily ruining detail. However, using a higher mesh count will also increase problems with ink drying in the screen. But a higher mesh count will allow for back flooding between prints. So ultimately I think a higher mesh count will be better to work with water based inks. You can also increase the relative humidity in your print room. The more humid it is, the slower the ink will dry. There are also additives called “retarders” for water based inks which will slow their drying times a bit, decreasing the problem of ink drying in the screen. And some people simply use a water spray bottle and wet the screen between print such as you are already experimenting with. Good luck!


Thanks for replying!  I had a question about back flooding though, when you do this between prints do you have to flood the image again before pulling or can you just pull? Also, I'll definitely pick up a cut edge squeegee but was wondering if anyone could tell me what a rounded edge squeegee is used for?

I believe the art store by me has retarder for the speedball inks, but I think I am going to experiment more with the spray bottle before I get any.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

Rounded squeegees can be useful for pushing more ink through the screen, when you don't need a good sharp shear of the ink. I have a cheapo SB 6" round squeegee that I use for some white on black chest prints that lays down a good amount of ink so I don't have to flash.

I think your problem has more to do with not having the shirt held down to the platen than ink drying in the screen. WB inks (SB included) will dry in the screen, but it will take 10-15 minutes at least before it actually clogs the screen, probably longer depending on relative humidity. Another reason I think this is because the prints don't have thin areas in the same places every time.

How are you holding the shirt down? If you don't have it spray-adhered or something similar to the platen, it will pull up with the frame, and you wont be able to get a good, clean strike. If you have the hinge-type SB kit, it's difficult to solve this problem. However, you may be able to fix it by just squeegeeing a lot harder. When you lift the screen, you should not see blotches of ink in the mesh, it should be clear where your design is.


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

midwaste said:


> Rounded squeegees can be useful for pushing more ink through the screen, when you don't need a good sharp shear of the ink. I have a cheapo SB 6" round squeegee that I use for some white on black chest prints that lays down a good amount of ink so I don't have to flash.
> 
> I think your problem has more to do with not having the shirt held down to the platen than ink drying in the screen. WB inks (SB included) will dry in the screen, but it will take 10-15 minutes at least before it actually clogs the screen, probably longer depending on relative humidity. Another reason I think this is because the prints don't have thin areas in the same places every time.
> 
> How are you holding the shirt down? If you don't have it spray-adhered or something similar to the platen, it will pull up with the frame, and you wont be able to get a good, clean strike. If you have the hinge-type SB kit, it's difficult to solve this problem. However, you may be able to fix it by just squeegeeing a lot harder. When you lift the screen, you should not see blotches of ink in the mesh, it should be clear where your design is.


Hello Midwaste! Thanks for replying !

I am using spray adhesive on my platens to hold the paper/shirts down. It's getting quite interesting now because my test prints on paper seem to come out with plenty of ink...no spotty coverage...but then if I print onto the shirt it's still spotty in some areas? Spraying water on the screen before I start printing seems to help...but I'm not sure why my paper prints are coming out fine and my T-shirts are still blotchy in some areas.

It's getting progressively better...as I keep doing it, but I thought I would have had one successful print on a shirt now. I press down as hard as I can but I'm a girl so ! Seems to be better when my boyfriend does it since he can push down a lot harder than I can, but geez! From what I have seen in videos it doesn't seem like I should be having to push down so hard. 

Also, I do not have the speedball hinges. I just have my boyfriend hold the screen still while I pull. Tonight's prints were done using nickles as contacts...maybe I should just stick to pennies?

But you do not think the squeegee is the problem at all? I think I will still get a new squeegee tomorrow though and see how that goes.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

Sure, you are spray-gluing down the back of the shirt, but how are you holding the front of the shirt down? Are you just using the top of a table or does the shirt actually wrap around the platen, so only the layer of fabric you are printing is being adhered down? This may be why you are getting good prints on paper and not on shirts.
A better squeegee will definitely help, though.


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

midwaste said:


> Sure, you are spray-gluing down the back of the shirt, but how are you holding the front of the shirt down? Are you just using the top of a table or does the shirt actually wrap around the platen, so only the layer of fabric you are printing is being adhered down? This may be why you are getting good prints on paper and not on shirts.
> A better squeegee will definitely help, though.


The platen goes in the middle of the shirt so the top that is being printed is being held down and doesn't move so I don't think that is the issue. Only the layer that is being printed is adhered to the platen. I got a new squeegee today though so I will see how it goes.


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## Catspit (Jan 27, 2010)

Panduhmonium said:


> Thanks for replying!  I had a question about back flooding though, when you do this between prints do you have to flood the image again before pulling or can you just pull? Also, I'll definitely pick up a cut edge squeegee but was wondering if anyone could tell me what a rounded edge squeegee is used for?
> 
> I believe the art store by me has retarder for the speedball inks, but I think I am going to experiment more with the spray bottle before I get any.


You should be able to go right to your stroke on the next print when the screen is back flooded. The idea is to pre flood the screen so the mesh stays wet with ink. As long as you flood it normally, you’re ready to go. It is true a rounded edge squeegee may tend to lay down more ink but I think it is also responsible for loss in detail. Generally, rounded edge squeegees are used in textile printing to increase ink penetration. There is a certain amount of roll involved with textiles, which is why I prefer cut edge squeegees for manual printing. You can control the amount of ink deposited by mesh count, tension and the angle of your flood and stroke with the squeegee. Stroke speed will also affect ink coverage. I want to have the least amount of stencil drag or friction between the squeegee and the stencil. I think a round edge will tend to create more stencil drag which pushes the stencil as you stroke causing registration problems or loss in detail. But as always with manual printing, in the end it will come down to your personal preference and/or your particular application. Try both and see which one works best for you.


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## Catspit (Jan 27, 2010)

Panduhmonium said:


> Thanks for replying!  I had a question about back flooding though, when you do this between prints do you have to flood the image again before pulling or can you just pull? Also, I'll definitely pick up a cut edge squeegee but was wondering if anyone could tell me what a rounded edge squeegee is used for?
> 
> I believe the art store by me has retarder for the speedball inks, but I think I am going to experiment more with the spray bottle before I get any.


Oh, and of course the squeegee durometer will also affect ink coverage. The softer the squeegee is, the more ink it will tend to deposit. 60 durometer is soft and a 95 would be hard.


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

Hey guys!! I just did some screenprinting with the new squeegee I got and it came out great!! Thanks for all your help everyone! <3 I got what speedball considers a "graphic squeegee" which has the rectangular end. Speedball Squeegees - JerrysArtarama.com But WOW! It works great! Now I just have to practice more. 

I've already done three shirts! Haha. Here is one of them:

[media]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Duh-chan/yayscreenprint.jpg[/media]

Thanks again everyone!


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## Catspit (Jan 27, 2010)

Panduhmonium said:


> Hey guys!! I just did some screenprinting with the new squeegee I got and it came out great!! Thanks for all your help everyone! <3 I got what speedball considers a "graphic squeegee" which has the rectangular end. Speedball Squeegees - JerrysArtarama.com But WOW! It works great! Now I just have to practice more.
> 
> I've already done three shirts! Haha. Here is one of them:
> 
> ...


Looks great! Very cool. Have fun!


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## hdem (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm glad I noticed you were using the wrong type of squeegee. Your print looks perfectly solid now! Also make sure to not use an unnecessarily high mesh count on simple designs. It will only make it harder to get the ink through to make solid prints.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Miranda,

This is an older post, but thought I would ask you a question. 

I'm trying to change from Plastisol to Waterbase. The clean up is a lot easier, cheaper, and better for the environment. 

I was wondering how you made out with the Speedball Ink Screen printing. My supplier doesn't carry waterbase so I bought some from a store that now closed it's doors. I than went online and found a supplier about 40 miles from me, but close to my garment supplier. 

Any Ma How (anyways), I found that if I start getting less ink, I flash dry with a heat gun due to the forced air. If it starts getting blotchy, I wash the whole screen. Than I start getting clean prints again. 

I'm going to try keeping a water bottle close by, and also just cleaning the screen underside. 

I thought I was saving time switching to waterbase ink, but seems like you spend more time between prints. 

Also, do you still use Speed Ball or have you switched to another ink provider?

Thanks, Paul


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

selanac said:


> Miranda,
> 
> This is an older post, but thought I would ask you a question.
> 
> ...


Hi Paul!

I still use speedball ink and I seem to have found a way to work with it. The ink tends to be really thick for me and clogs the screen easily...so what I tend do to is add water to the ink before I do a run and then mix it really well. Flooding after you do a print also keeps the screen from drying out between prints. You do have to be quick though...but it gets easier as you work with it more.

Definitely keep a water bottle close by. Whenever I get spots that are clogging I usually spray it with water and use a paper towel to message the ink out. 

I don't have any issues with Speedball ink washing out and I usually heat set with a iron because that is all I have at the moment. I have shirts I did a while ago and they are still looking good.

Good luck with your own printing and if you have anymore questions feel free to ask, I will do my best to help.

Miranda


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thank you Miranda,

One issue I have right now is as you say, the ink dries out pretty quick. Also, I get a lot of ink on certain letters. Usually it's like one or two of the whole image. I probably get about 4 or 5 good prints before the a couple of letters start up like mentioned above (too much ink), or like fading. 

I'm pretty sure the fading is due to the ink drying. I tried a Speedball retarder, but doesn't seem to help. For that problem I think I'll keep the Water Bottle and Paper Towels handy. 

My biggest question then is what do you do for the glob of ink on one or two letters? 

Thank you again,

Paul


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

selanac said:


> Thank you Miranda,
> 
> One issue I have right now is as you say, the ink dries out pretty quick. Also, I get a lot of ink on certain letters. Usually it's like one or two of the whole image. I probably get about 4 or 5 good prints before the a couple of letters start up like mentioned above (too much ink), or like fading.
> 
> ...



Paul,

How thick is your stencil? I usually just do one coat of emulsion on each side. Also, check your pressure. Make sure your not pressing too hard. When you flood your screen try to do it in one pass to get a even coverage. The only thing I can think of is that you just have an abundance of ink on one side. Also...is it happening on the letters that are under your hands? I noticed that I tend to apply a lot more pressure to the area where I hold the squeegee which can make the ink deposit uneven sometimes.

Also, try doing double passes occasionally. You can also print a few shirts and then but a piece of paper under the screen and print on it to get the stuck ink out. I do this sometimes, but I find that the water bottle works better when the ink starts clogging. 

Hope this helps!

Miranda


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Miranda,

I only coat each side once. The extra ink is on one side only. I'm sure it's due to putting to much ink on, and also waiting too long to print. 

I think I paused for about ten minutes for something. Can remember why now. I'm going to try to do it again soon. This time, the first sign of clogging I'll use the spray bottle or wipe the ink off from the bottom of the screen. 

I believe I need to change my Pull and Flood method to Fill and Push. We'll see how that works. 

I had some success with another design. I just had the artwork a little messed up. We'll see how that goes.

I've also been using a 110 mesh. The graphics were not very detailed, and some just fonts. Should I switch to a higher mesh count like 156?

Thanks, Paul


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## Panduhmonium (Jan 19, 2010)

Paul,

I think if you spray the water bottle and rub the underside of the frame at the first signs of clogging then that should be enough. I've tried pushing before too and that works as well. I guess it just depends on the mood I am in. 

I also use 110 mesh so it should be fine.

Miranda


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks Miranda, I'll try that. 

Does your stuff come out crisp?


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