# FELLING REALLY BAD!! First big job done big problem



## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Ok so i got my first big job 600 shirts. . i got the job wed night and it felt really good to have finished that job. got a call a few minutes ago saying that they were returning 2 boxes of shirts not sure how manny exactly they just said two boxes! i asked what the problem was and the guy said they were off center, i asked how bad but he said he hasnt seen them yet he got the call from the person who passed them out. Today was supposed to be a good day now i fell really bad this was only my second screen printing job and i was not expecting this.


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## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

double check them .... maybe they might try to pull something on you and that come to find out the 600 shirts was too many..... so they might try to get their costs back.....

b


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I wouldnt freak out until you take a look at the gear. Post some pics so we can see how off they actually are. You dont have to take them back if they are ok. I think they may have over ordered.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

well i dont think they over ordered because the accually wanted more but i was unable to do more because of the time. just got off the phone again he says they were only on the bigger sizes xxl and xxxl still dont know how many but i guess the people who recieved the shirts are the one's who returned them which is really worrying me because i dont think they payed for them i think it was payed by the school.


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

OK, take a deep breath, and wait until the shirts come back to see exactly what the complaint is. If they are off center, then try to figure out what caused this. You're only obligated to take back what's not right, NOT the entire order. 
I'm been in this biz for 23 years, and sometimes this just happens. Since you're new, the key here is to LEARN what happended, and what to do to prevent it.
Please post again when you get the shirts back, and perhaps post an image also. If they are off center, this should be an easy fix for future orders. Sorry you're going thur this right now, but it will pass, and it won't mean the end of your business. Everyone in this industry makes mistakes, sometimes really big ones.
A few years ago we printed over 400 multi-color front & rear shirts, only to have the customer call once they received the shirts that a word was misspelled.
Of course, the customer received a proof (which had the mis-spelling), and he missed it, I missed it, the artist missed it (he was the one who mis-spelled), and also the customer's partner missed it.
I had to re-print the entire job, but the customer took some responsibility and at least reimbursed me for the wholesale cost of the shirts. I could have made him just pay for the job, since he did approve the proof, but sometimes you just have to do what ever it takes to make it right, but also make the customer have some responsibility also, if it's the same case as this.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

i will post pics as soon as i get the shirts back which probably wont be untill a few days though. Im felling a little bit better but man! i didnt think i could fell like this over some shirts.


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

Totally understand how you feel...this is YOUR business, and it reflects on well how YOU run YOUR business....been there, but this is good, that means you care, and hopefully your customer will see that you care, and be able to work something out. Please let us know the outcome.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Just stay cool. It wont be the last time. Charge it to the game and learn from the whole experience... loading the 2xl sized shirt square with the pallet, rush job pressure, maybe several artwork changes.... even how you deal with the problem and the customer, and how they deal with you. 
Just be cool, it'll be a good learning experience however it turns out. Might not be your fault anyway. But rest assured you WILL make a large mistake sooner or later.. 
It's hard to make screen printing an exacting science with no errors.


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## cookiesa (Feb 27, 2008)

I think one of the great features of this site is the way people get behind others and try to help out, no condemnation, no "well maybe you shouldn't be playing with the big boys" etc etc. Just acknowledgement that sometimes as humans we make mistakes (and inexperience certainly means some of us make more mistakes than others!) and info on how to deal with it and offers to help, and hopefully prevent it hapenning again!

YOU GUYS ROCK


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## 109935 (Apr 14, 2007)

Could not agree more with Brian. Feeling bad shows that you care about the quality of your work. It shows that you are in this for the long haul. Chin up, charge forward!


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

Yep, I've been in this biz for 23 years, and still make mistakes, and I have the boxes of shirts to prove it.


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## mmagdesigner (Apr 11, 2008)

hey manny sometimes it takes these things to remind us we are simply human and we tend to errr on occasion......keep your chin up and just keep plugging away....just a suggestion to you on how to mend this is to simply tell your customer that this matter will be fixed promptly and just forge ahead....fixing a mistake without placing blame is a good way to keep yer customer coming back time and again....if it's not right, make it right and let them know they are important to you....possibly throw in some hats or something to make them feel better about the situation. good luck and keep your chin up!!


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## boingboing069 (Apr 2, 2008)

2STRONG said:


> i will post pics as soon as i get the shirts back which probably wont be untill a few days though. Im felling a little bit better but man! i didnt think i could fell like this over some shirts.


 

Just think .. if you get the shirts back and they do look off center or the customer just will not take them back.. You can cut out the images and use them as samples of your work! : )


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks for all the comments. like justin said it's good to have a group of people for advise and to give you a little push when your down, I love this site and all the people tha participate in it. thanks again guys. a few days have passed and i feel better but still got that feeling when i think about it, maybe it will go away when everything is all said and done. i still have not seen the shirts yet i will call them in the morning and see what the hold up is. and i will have to drive about 40 miles one way to pick them up.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Just remember what has been said"we all make mistakes and learn from it". Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome. Give them a discount coupon for their next job,This may convince them to give you another try. Take care and keep you head high. ... JB


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Ok now im confused i talked to my friend a few minutes ago, he's the one i placed the order through and he told me they decided to keep the shirts and they passed them out so everything is ok. he said he toke care of it which probably means they said it's ok and he's trying to take credit for it. so i am not going to be able to see the shirts which is good i guess but now im curious. my friend said a few were pretty bad but thats it. it went from two boxes to a few which they still gave out Hum!! and now they want to place another order for some senior shirts and said they want a good deal and better quality! now was this a set up to get a better deal on the next job! or are they giving me a 2nd chance?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

The old bait and switch ..... JB


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Is this a common thing i should watch out for?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I have had this happen before.Just remember everyone wants your product for less that it cost you to make it. .... JB


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

Most likely it was just a few shirts. Sometimes, when customers are rushed, they see a defect, then start closely looking at all the shirts, to the point that if a design is 1/8" off center, then there's a problem. In their (customer's) eye, there's a problem w/ the entire order. Once all the shirts are handed out, then they realize it was just a few shirts....no real big deal.
I assume you already got paid. If not, then I would not take any more orders from them until you get paid. If it was a few shirts that were off, then give them credit for a few shirts off what they owe you.
If you are already paid, then treat this new order as a "new" customer. You can offer a credit for a few shirts, but price this job as per your normal pricing. If you feel you must give them some type of discount, or they are really pushing for a discount, then omit the screen charge, offer credit for 6 shirts from previous order, but don't "sell the farm" here.
In fact, see what they say, and post it here for opinions. If they're looking for a better quality, that perhaps means a heavier shirt, so you may offer them the heavier shirts for the same price as the previous job. Sounds like they want some type of compensation for a few bad shirts, but if they were really totally dissatisfied, they would not even be calling you. Problem w/ discounting is that once you start that practice with any customer, then they expect it with every order. Sometimes it's just better to let the customer "move on"; you're not a discount store...yes, you made a mistake, and you're willing to compensate for the bad shirts, but not on every order. The mistake was in the past, it's time for both you & your customer to move forward. Don't let them hold 1 mistake on a few shirts over your head for the entire business relationship. Fair is fair on both sides.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

I have not got paid yet i should get the check on friday and i dont want to tell them to deduct to total of the bad shirts off because it's a school and if they do that i will have to make a new invoice changing the price and then they will have to submit it back to the office and i dont want that delay i want to get paid. on the next job i will offer them a higher quality shirt for the same price and maybe give them a little break but i will make sure to tell them that this is a one time deal since they were unhappy with the previous job and i want to regain there trust that i can provide a good quality job. if they try to pull the same thing then i will know what they are up to.


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

Sounds like a plan. Get the payment in hand first. Then, on the next order, you can offer some type of compensation on that order only. See where it goes from here. I don't know what procedure you used for this order in terms of payment (P.O. from the school, a signed order, etc), but just make sure you either get a 50% deposit in advance on future orders from any customer; if that's not possible, then get an AUTHORIZED signature on the order.
We had a school teacher order shirts for one of her classes, and said bill it to the school. He signed the order, but the principal of the school did not want to pay, stating the teacher was not authorized to order for the school. We finally got our money, but got a good lesson also. Now it's either 50% deposit, or a bona fide Purchase Order in writing w/ authorized signature, or a written order with an authorized signature that's been pre-approved prior to producing the order.
Also, in the future, if it's possible, have another person go thru the printed shirts as they're packaged to spot check for any problems.
I do this all the time w/ my printer; I catch the shirts as they come off the conveyor dryer, and quick look at each. I'm always catching pinholes that my printer doesn't see (or does not want to see sometimes).


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

We had the same problem with teachers... 
Get a PO#, or a Credit Card#, or a check. No Verbal PO's


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## Matto (Sep 28, 2007)

I do the 50% down every time. You could be the Pres. of the United States and I would not change that. As for you so called mistake. Learn from it and move on. It takes time but I inspect all shirts on a flat table before shipping to make sure they are acceptable. If you want to see quality issues go to Walmart and and dig through they're printed shirts. Everything from registration to off placement issues, I go there when I am down on myself and that perks me up every time cuz that crap doesnt get out of my shop. Yeah it takes time to inspect but it is time well worth spending. That does not mean I dont make mistakes, I just catch them before the customer does. I have screwed the pooch a few times on jobs myself and tried to learn from each one.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

2STRONG said:


> I have not got paid yet i should get the check on friday and i dont want to tell them to deduct to total of the bad shirts off because it's a school and if they do that i will have to make a new invoice changing the price and then they will have to submit it back to the office and i dont want that delay i want to get paid.


Manny, can I just interject here? You made the shirts, they have the shirts - and are already wearing the shirts, and you have NOT been paid yet? I'm sorry, from what I understand, most orders require a 50% upfront down payment. The fact that you are giving them complete "terms" is in fact, part of your service. 

Do other printers in your area, or theirs since they are 40 miles away, offer these same payment terms?

Why do they come so far to use you? Are your prices already better than whoever is 40 miles closer to them, or is it bc of your friend? And if this is bc of a friend, why is a friend trying to re-negotiate the job for better terms for them bc of a few off-quality shirts?

Manny, I read Brian's/fdsales, and could not agree with him more.

The only thing I would add is... keep your price and shirts are what they are. Give them credit for the bad shirts they are even keeping. Get yourself free and clear of those bad shirts, so you do not get roped into negotiating like this. For the cost of a half a dozen shirts, you do not need to be put through this or jerked around... which is what I would call this.

If you compare yourself to your competition, the "other" guys they can go to.. how are your prices, your payment terms, your turn around time? They are getting more than shirts when they go to a printer. 

A half a dozen shirts out of 600 is not enough to put them in the position of dictating terms to you, and demanding breaks.



> on the next job i will offer them a higher quality shirt for the same price and maybe give them a little break but i will make sure to tell them that this is a one time deal since they were unhappy with the previous job and i want to regain there trust that i can provide a good quality job. if they try to pull the same thing then i will know what they are up to.


That is a nice idea, but once they know you can supply a higher quality shirt, and give them a break - and still profit - you've just put some cards into play on the table you may not wish to. 

I would still offer to let them keep the bad shirts and give them credit, that is sufficient. As a customer, I would be happy with that and feel that is fair. If you offer a break or coupon, they will naturally be inclined to pick apart your orders for savings in the future.

Manny, if you believe your product is good quality at the price you set... do not let someone get the upper hand on you for 6 shirts. You've never even seen the shirts... it could be that 1/8" someone mentioned... just add up the cost of an upgrade and/or discount before you offer it... it may be far cheaper to give them a very generous refund of a full dozen shirts on the past order - sight unseen! How nice of You!! Deal with each order seperately is the best advice I can give you... no rolling past problems into the future... good luck, Manny! Best regards, Kelly

PS: Sorry so long of a note!

_Added: I just posted this and saw four people wrote since I started writing this post, it did take a while - lol - sorry Manny, we're just routing for you, buddy! lol good luck!_


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

I guess I forgot that this order was for 600 shirts, so if you had 6 shirts that were "off", that's only 1% of the entire order. Not bad at all, considering that the industry standard runs almost 2%. Understand that if you sent this order to a contract printer, most likely they would not have even replaced the shirts, it's called spoilage, and like I said, 2% is the industry standard.
So like Girlzndollz posted, over them a very generous credit for 12 shirts on the next order, and that offer is good for the next 30 days only. If they drag their feet and not order again for months, then the offer expired.
Don't let the customer run YOUR business. Treat them fairly, and if they are fair, then they will come back.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

the reason i did not get a down payment is i have dealt with them before with no down payment and have had no problems but i think i might start but they might get mad now that i want a deposit, will see. the reason they deal with me and me being so far is yes because of my friend. my friend was just relaying the messages to me from what the main guys was saying and was not trying to nagotiate on there behalf he was just the middle man. he head of athletics there. 

Kelly thanks for the advise im still knew to this it was my first big job and i didnt want to do anything to jepordize it like ask for a deposit but now i know i got to be firm and believe in my product and prices and try not to get screwed .. I really appreciate all the comments


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## Mudskii (May 6, 2008)

I agree with the general consensus here, offer them credit for the "defective" shirts on their next order and leave it at that. I think that's more than fair.

I know people like it when big companies bend over backwards to please the customer after buggering something up eg "my order was a week late so they gave me %50 off and a nice fruit basket!!" lol But those big companies can afford to do that kind of thing. For now you should just be fair and transparent.


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## fdsales (Jul 1, 2007)

OK, don't get the customer mad, but at least get an authorized signature on a written order. Get some multi-part carbonless generic sales orders printed up w/ your co. info at your local printer, or Office Depot, Staples, write the order up & have it signed.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

If they don't re-order - now or later - a "credit not taken" could leave the customer still feeling "owed", or like they did Manny a "favor" by keeping the shirts and "letting it go". If they are seriously ready to re-order, no problem passing the credit to the new order. But if no firm order is in site, and in an effort to keep it simple like Manny wants, without re-invoicing and waiting for new approval for payment, I would issue a refund check to whoever pays for the job after they pay. 

Clean, done, and completely finished with the 'defective' shirts. If it takes 6 months for the customer to order again, this issue will be dead and buried. Start fresh. Just my 2C.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

That sounds like a good idea i will issue them out a check for the bad shirts as soon as my payment is recieved. I like the idea of starting fresh on a new job.


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## mmagdesigner (Apr 11, 2008)

hey manny you can also just "revise" your business "policies" and tell them that it is now a standard for you to collect 50% up front from all of your customers and just stick to it....they cannot argue with "new policies" just tell them that your accountant told you you have to start collecting 50% up front to cover the cost of shirts for insurance issues people don't care why as long as it is a policy, you are a business and must conduct this matter as a business relationship reguardless if the guy is your friend or not......sounds like you are well on your way to mending this keep on that path and good luck


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

mmagdesigner said:


> hey manny you can also just "revise" your business "policies" and tell them that it is now a standard for you to collect 50% up front from all of your customers and just stick to it....they cannot argue with "new policies" just tell them that your accountant told you you have to start collecting 50% up front to cover the cost of shirts for insurance issues people don't care why as long as it is a policy, you are a business and must conduct this matter as a business relationship reguardless if the guy is your friend or not......sounds like you are well on your way to mending this keep on that path and good luck


Well said, Tracy. I agree, and couldn't find the right words. Thanks so much for getting that out there in just the right way. Great post!


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

as of now my policy is changed.thanks my wife was giving me grief with this also she said i was crazy for not collecting a deposit especialy with me having to purchase 600 shirts out of my own pocket.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

LOL, Manny.. You are lucky to have a wife like her!! Good luck to you in the future with new orders!


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## esentuals (Sep 4, 2007)

Yup I do the same. 50 percent upfront. This way you don't have to fork the cost of the shirts the client orders.

Main thing to have is your business rules in order this way you know what your charging and what to expect and your clients expect of you as well.

Good luck on your venture. I know for us it has been a learning experience.


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## 4thNGoal (May 1, 2008)

A couple of points . . . that I've learned the hard way. Be sure that you have the customer sign that he has read and accepted your policies. Among those is that there is a certain degree of tolerance . . . I believe that 1/2 inch is the accepted standard. I also advise them of "wasteage" and that is that I will give them within 10% (either way) of the number they ordered, and they will pay for only the ones I deliver that fall within the accepted levels of tolerance.

For your 600 shirt that would be any where between 660 and 540. You just have to explain that things catch on fire, drips and finger prints happen.

This gets to be tricky with school where they order one for every kid, but you can bet that the one YXS that is ordered will be the one that burns under that flash dryer. 

My wife is a teacher, so I end up doing a bunch of school orders and I can guarantee that they are the worst about paying. I have waited three months do get paid on a purchase order, and I have been paid my 50% deposit ten days after the shirts were needed for the students. As a result I try to toughen my policies to weed out the trouble-causers.

I find myself being more concerned about making people happy then about making money, but if I would stick to my guns I would have more money and fewer headaches.


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## Julius (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey if all else fails just remember... "There's alot holes in the desert.. and alot of problems are solved in those holes". It will all work out!


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

[
I find myself being more concerned about making people happy then about making money, but if I would stick to my guns I would have more money and fewer headaches.[/quote]


That is what i find myself doing all the time. im running around and rushing to get everything done fast while my wife once again telling me to relax and dont rush for them and let them know things take time. I really got to be firm with everybody i deal with.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Just wanted to give you guys an update. well i finally got paid today. and my policy is in place now 50% down. thanks for all your advise i appreciated it very much.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Manny listen to your wife and slow down.I'm glad you got paid , now stck to your policy and make the big bucks !!!!!! .... Good luck.... JB


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

Whaddya mean they're off center?!


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## INKSCREENS (Jan 28, 2008)

Is that the actual shirt in question?...or was that a joke?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

INKSCREENS said:


> Is that the actual shirt in question?...or was that a joke?


Lol, that wasn't Manny/2strong who posted the pic of the shirt....


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I just thought that was clever placement...now go do a thousand more just like it!


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

Haha.. That was my first job ever, a friend and I stayed up until 5am doing about 30 of these. At about 4am, I looked at one and went "Oh shi...." we finished the rest ok, laughed and fell asleep.
Lessons learned..


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

No that is not the shirt lol! i acually never got to see any but im guessing it wasnt like that shirt lol!


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## 4thNGoal (May 1, 2008)

The greatest fashion advancement for screen printers has been the high on the shoulder and tilted trend. My six year old can throw those on the platens and I don't have to worry about a thing.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

midwaste said:


> Haha.. That was my first job ever, a friend and I stayed up until 5am doing about 30 of these. At about 4am, I looked at one and went "Oh shi...." we finished the rest ok, laughed and fell asleep.
> Lessons learned..


 
I guess driving a car or using a press is all about the same at that time in the morning. Thanks for sharing, that was a chuckle...


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## teeshirtgnome (Jun 4, 2008)

don't feel bad. there's just a huge learning curve in this process.


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## TeddyRocky (Mar 23, 2007)

teeshirtgnome said:


> don't feel bad. there's just a huge learning curve in this process.


Literally.


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