# Pricing your TRansfers - I know not again right?



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Oh no yet another pricing thread!

Well I've looked at a lot of threads and my questions just doesn't seem to have been asked that I can see... So here goes...

I'm trying to get my head around some pricing and wanted to get a feel for what others do that have been doing this for awhile...

One the stones... Do you take an average price for all colors or do you really price out each color of the design?

Template Material and this is where my question really lies as it's a big chunk of the expense....

I have a design that is say 4" x 9". My template material is 15" So if I cut my design out I'm left with 6" or so of scrap... In this case 4"x6" the 24 square inches... Could I technically use that scrap... Sure on a tiny design or two I could... But I feel like I should charge out the whole 15" width... But adding this extra 24 square inches really adds to the cost too... I've not done a ton of cutting but I've done a fair bit and I have already accumulated a nice little stack of cut offs and think man I didn't get paid for any of this left over!...

What I do is have a cut box around every design I do... about 1" around the out size of my design... I then add another inch to each side top, bottom, left and right... So for my 4x9 design... I expense out 8x13... Because that is really what I would use... But there is still 2"x8" or 16 square inches that is basically scrap and that I'm not getting paid for...

So what do you pros do that have been doing this awhile?... 

Same would be true with decal material which this stuff is not cheap and I have lots of cut offs there too decal material is twice the cost per square inch as the template material... Same with transfer tape...

I had been just quoting prices from the hip but when I actually expense out a design... I was a little taken back... 

Here's an example design...

I think you can see it's pretty basic... 5" overall... 439 stones..

Here's how the expense worked out...

*Stones $1.71* 

I cheated here and took the cost per gross of my most expensive stone color, rather than an average of all colors or the actual price for each color used in the design.

*Template Material $8.94*

Here is where I really took a lick... 3 colors... Each with it's own bounding box... I ate up a lot of template material and I used my new formula where I expense out the entire 15" length even though I only used up 9"... 

*Then Decal Material $4.89*

Again here I expense out the entire 12" width even though I only used about 8"...

So total for a one off... $15.54. 

Now to be fair this template is reusable maybe if someone else wanted it. This was done as a custom order of 5. If we take out the template costs because it can be reused it becomes more reasonable. $6.60 my cost not including labor and not including transfer tape.

I ended up quoting $14.00 each but feel I am short changing myself a bit but don't want to price is so crazy they aren't going to order either...

I would love to see some examples and what you are quoting and your costs as well...










So what do you guys suggest?...

Thank you,

Kevin


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

Why do you add a whole inch to the border of your design? I cut my weed boxes as close as possible to the design. 

I ALWAYS keep my scraps. I just used a 2" scrap to cut the word Princess.

I would average the price per stone. Are you saying that for a 3 color design, you charged $14 for just the transfer or for the whole shirt?


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello Divine,

For this design it was a sticky flock design 3 color and I just think it's better to have a little border around the design... Does it need an inch?... probably not... But I like a little extra around the design... 

I keep my scraps... But now I have a pile as almost every cut yields scraps... But these really aren't getting billed out if I'm only charging the square inches actually used in the design....

For this design I charged $14.00 for each car decal... The decal material as you know is fairly expensive and just like the template material there's scrap... Usable scrap but scrap none the less and almost every design yields scrap...

Here the design was 3x5 The decal material is 12" technically I could squeeze two to the width with a little gap all the way around but I like 1/2" to 1" all the way around... So this 5" becomes more like 7" leaving 5" x5" inch piece of scrap... I can use it probably... But for this order I now have (5) 5x5 piece of scrap because they ordered 5 of these.... That's 100 square inches of scrap that is sitting on my table hoping to get used that I haven't billed out...

So do I just suck it up and save all my scraps for little jobs... Or do I expense out the scraps with the job they belong to and if I later use that scrap for a little decal I don't have expense in deal material for that little job...

Template and Decal material are the two most expensive things on a custom job and I'm not really sure how to handle pricing out that material usage.

I've not done a ton of cutting and I already have about 30 pieces of good sized scraps for template material and the decal material not as large but I have a fair bit of pieces for it too now... Those I can use up as I have little giveaway samples for decals I hand out so those scraps will really never go to waste...

Kevin


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi Kevin,

You can call me Stephanie. 

I've seen your posts and I like your designs. From what I've read, it appears that you're fairly new to the rhinestone side of the business but that you've been in the industry for awhile now.

As you're just getting started in rhinestones, then the answer to your question is yes... Suck it up and save your scraps for smaller jobs. It costs money to make money so as you build up your nice inventory of "scrap" pieces of rhinestone decal material and rhinestone template material, you shouldn't bill your customers for those scraps. Later on when you get smaller designs that you can use those scraps for, you'll appreciate the fact that you don't have to dip into a new sheet or roll. You'll realize that you already paid for them awhile ago and will appreciate the larger profit margin at that time. 

As a designer, we typically charge by the hour. When I was first learning rhinestone design, I didn't think it was fair for me to charge a customer for 2 hours when an experienced designer could do the same job in 20 minutes. I chalked a lot up to learning experiences in my first several months. 

You asked earlier about multiple colors and how to charge. For me it's really about how long it takes me to make the transfer. The design you posted would probably take me 3 or 4 minutes max to make each transfer using a different template for each color. 

I also have seen smaller decals than yours sell for $20 to $25 each. I think $14 is pretty low but only you know what people in your area are willing to pay for designs such as those. Sometimes I'll charge a low price to the first customer and chalk it up as cheap advertising. I let them know that the regular price is $XX but I'm giving them a special discount so they are more likely to give referrals.

Okay, it's 4am and I think it's about time I get to bed! Hopefully the things I said make sense!


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

My first and most important suggestion is that you design yourself a Pricing Sheet, and set your pricing standards so that you are not always guessing and second guessing yourself about whether or not your prices are adequate.

Key Factors: material cost, labor, other expenses, profit margin


Cost based on size of design - I include 1" to each side of my design to account for the "waste" that occurs when cutting. My machine will not cut to the end of a piece, so I am always left with scraps that really can't be used for anything else.
Cost of transfer tape, decal material, vinyl, and/or template material - based on cost per square inch. You know the size of your design plus the margin. I believe this is most fair, rather than charging someone for a full 12" piece of tape and/or template material
Cost of stones - I use a flat price for my stones based on the actual cost of the stones plus shipping, divided by the number of stones in the order. This may be a little easier for me as I buy my stones in bulk. I don't know if this works for stones bought in smaller quantities or on a more frequent level. Everytime I get a shipment, I run the figures to make sure I'm still within my cost range and prices haven't changed.
Other expenses/profit - once I have a "cost" based on the above items, I add a mark up for other expenses (electricity, etc) and my profit percentage. I have a cost for "preferred" customers and a cost for those one-time customers.
Since you mentioned decal material, I am guessing that this was to be a decal, not a transfer or transfer with shirt. I was at $10 for a preferred customer and $12 for a regular customer. 

If you "feel" like you are cutting yourself short, then sit down and see if your $14 price actually covers all of your expenses incurred, AND gives you the profit margin you are looking for. If not make some changes. Your prices and our prices are really based on your market and your needs.


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## Knehmer (May 6, 2007)

I have great success with the green rubber...and it sure saves a bundle on my costs.


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## idelements (Feb 3, 2009)

Kevin
I think $14 for a custom rhinestone decal is too low...at least in my opinion. 

I am not big into cost accounting as I think you can get really carried away with trying to account for all costs of a job. I think some of the costs of doing rhinestones is an overall expense of doing business and shouldn't be charged to a specific job but rather part of your overhead. To me it is not different than thread for embroidery or ink for screen printing. When I am pricing out my embroidery jobs I don't consider how many pieces of backing I am going to use on a job, how much the backing cost me, how many meters of thread I am going to use, etc. I look at the overall stitch count of the design and go from there.

I just add a flat fee for the rhinestone design and template into my job...like a setup fee or an art fee. Sometimes I add more than enough, sometimes I don't but I figure it all works out in the end. If I spend so much time trying to figure out my ACTUAL costs, I get so wrapped up in the details and spend more time doing that then the cost of the m materials that I am trying to account for like the template material that I am throwing away.

Also, set up a minimum price for a rhinestone design...regardless of the stone count. For me, I think $15 is reasonable and seems to work for me.


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## Knehmer (May 6, 2007)

I totally agree with Christine!


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

idelements said:


> Kevin
> I think $14 for a custom rhinestone decal is too low...at least in my opinion.
> 
> I am not big into cost accounting as I think you can get really carried away with trying to account for all costs of a job. I think some of the costs of doing rhinestones is an overall expense of doing business and shouldn't be charged to a specific job but rather part of your overhead. To me it is not different than thread for embroidery or ink for screen printing. When I am pricing out my embroidery jobs I don't consider how many pieces of backing I am going to use on a job, how much the backing cost me, how many meters of thread I am going to use, etc. I look at the overall stitch count of the design and go from there.
> ...


Christine, I follow your logic, and I agree, the simpler the better, but in my market, a flat fee for a rhinestone design would not be practical. How would I be able to justify a flat $15 fee for a transfer of 200 stones as opposed to one with 1,000 stones? I can do away with trying to account for other "material items" used in a job, but at a minimum, I would HAVE to suggest at least a per stone price, just as you do a stitch count for your embroidery.

In any event, I think it's important that Kevin (I like typing your name because my son's name is Kevin), come up with a pricing strategy that he is comfortable with, as well as one that ensures he is not working for free


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## idelements (Feb 3, 2009)

I am not saying a flat fee for all jobs...I am saying a minimum fee. 

I charge a per stitch fee for embroidery but I still have a minimum charge of $10. It takes me the same time to hoop and prep a shirt for a design with 1000 stitches as it does for a design with 8000 stitches.


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Got it Chris. My mistake. That is indeed a very true and sound process to have.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

I was given a base formula by Brian for how to price out rhinestone shirts. He said 2 cents per stone plus 2.50 for each additional color and/or size of stone. Just like Christine said, it takes the same amount of time to grab each additional template and line them up on top of the first one, peel the transfer tape back, etc, no matter how many stones are on each layer. I don't always follow that to the letter because some designs are just easier to use than others. But it's a good starting point and it was great when I was first starting out and needed some sort of constant.

Carol, your formula might be different because you can be working on other things while your CPII is making your transfers for you.


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Stephanie, you are correct. If I'm using the machine for a particular job, then the pricing is different, to exclude template material and "hands on" time. I guess my pricing frame of mind is different because I'm not making shirts, just transfers 95% of the time.


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