# Oki C8800n + Hotronix Draw + ImageClip = SWEET!!!



## RescueShirts (Jun 24, 2007)

As a complete novice, trying to "guess" what I would need/want for the start of my business took hours of online research.

I have only printed and pressed shirts for two days now... but I am totally satisfied with my decisions.

The new, large format, Oki C8800n Laser printer is simply awesome! ... and HUGE!










I'm figuring out how to dial-in the settings to work perfectly with the ImageClip paper... and this paper is truly amazing.

What I wanted was the shortest possible learning curve... and ImageClip delivered.

Printing exclusively on the 11x17" size... I get a small Left Chest image and full back image out of one sheet. 

Pressing the the two sheets together is not at all much of a hassle... goes very quickly... and I am very happy with the zero cutting. It's like screen printing with a heat press.


Speaking of cutting... I found this neat 12" self sharpening paper cutter at our local craft warehouse.










Works great for slicing off the bottom portion of my transfer papers, and trimming the L chest image to size.


The room in my garage that is now my T-shirt pressing room... used to be a well insulated music studio type of room. To compensate for this... I mounted a 14" box fan in the wall about 6-8 inches above where my Hotronix Draw Press sits (it sits on a custom table in a corner).

The fan pulls hot air from above the press and into the other portion of my garage (by the two large doors).

This works excellent. With the door to my room open, and the fan on, all the hot air is pulled out of the room, while cool air is pulled in from the door. So what I thought was going to be a warm, stuffy room, is really quite comfortable.

(and no... it does not seem to cool down the press... it re-heats to pressing temperature pretty quickly after each press.)

I would highly recommend the Hotronix Draw press. 










The benefits of a swingaway, with much less room needed. Again, I have mine "backed into a corner"... and being able to pull the lower platen towards you to work away from the heat is very cool.


Anyway... having fun... and just wanted to share.

 Brett


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Good going.

What did I tell you about Imageclip? Was I right? Works like a charm.


Luis


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## ivangeer (Jul 12, 2007)

Hello Bret,

My name is Ivan. I have a photostudio and starting the tshirt business. As a mather of fact i am also thinking of buying the same equipment as you. I only don't know where, and for how much. Can you please share this info with me. 

Regards, Ivan


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

Thanks for that review. I was looking at the C9600/ImageClip combo. The C8800 is quite a bit cheaper and now I know it works well with ImageClip paper.


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## numski (Dec 26, 2006)

Luis/Brett,
What settings are you using for your heat press and printer. I just got a Oki C8800 and have been working with the imageclip and duracotton papers. I like how the imageclip works but I keep getting a ton of speckles in the non-printed area. Is this a printer or maybe heatpress issue? Thanks guys!

-mark


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

If you are getting the speckles with only one paper, I would say it is not the press


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

numski said:


> Luis/Brett,
> What settings are you using for your heat press and printer. I just got a Oki C8800 and have been working with the imageclip and duracotton papers. I like how the imageclip works but I keep getting a ton of speckles in the non-printed area. Is this a printer or maybe heatpress issue? Thanks guys!
> 
> -mark


Mark,

I had that problem. What causes the polymer specks is the papers cool down way too fast before the sheets are peeled apart and not allowing the polymer to release from the unprinted area. If you notice that as soon as the press is opened the papers will curl. The papers should be flat on the lower platten to keep the polymer from cooling down. So, I came up with a solution:

Material required - SILPAT brand Silicon cookie sheet with notched corners or other brand with at least one side with smooth surface trimmed off corners

1) Press the two papers together with light pressure at 210F temp for 10 seconds.

2) Open the press and immediately cover the papers with silicon cookie sheet with smooth side against the papers.

3) Make sure that the top left corner is exposed so that you can fold the corner of the red paper as shown below:










4) Press the stack for another 5 seconds (The time is critical. May have to experiment with your press. 5 seconds works best for my press.)

5) Open the press, pick the corner of the red paper and peel the red paper with smooth even motion while keeping the silicon sheet with it and keeping the green paper in contact with lower platten surface. 

6) Keep the red paper and silicon sheets as close to the lower platten while peeling as shown below:










Note: The purpose of the silicon cookie sheet is to keep the papers from curling and its heat keeps the polymer from cooling down before the papers are peeled apart.

Some user suggest to use teflon sheet with increased dwell time but when I tried it the process still left a lot of polymer in the unprinted area. The teflon sheet does not have enough mass to keep the papers from curling and therefore cooling down in some areas.

Hope this helps.


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## numski (Dec 26, 2006)

Luis,
Thank you so much for the great detailed instructions, I will try that process as soon as I can.

-mark


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

Luis...You pressing the first or second step at 400/10? Coastal recommends 210/10 for the first step and 400/10 for pressing to the garment. have you tried pressing one time with the silicon sheet with higher dwell time?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

rrc62 said:


> Luis...You pressing the first or second step at 400/10? Coastal recommends 210/10 for the first step and 400/10 for pressing to the garment. have you tried pressing one time with the silicon sheet with higher dwell time?


Sorry my mistake. Step 1 should have been 210F for 10 seconds. I can not edit the previous post once it has been through several posts. So bare with me. It was dumb of me . I always check the content and spelling before I submit the post but boy did I mess that up big time.

Yes I have tried pressing with silicon sheet with longer dwell time and I was getting mixed results. I get consistent result when I pressed with silicon sheet after the first pressing. Besides the silicon sheet will be hotter to the touch when it is pressed for longer dwell time compared to 5 seconds. The extra 5 seconds is only done to keep the silicon sheet at same temp as the lower platten and to keep the papers flat. You don't want to cover the papers with cold silicon sheets and peel the papers apart without heating it up. It defeats the purpose because cold silicon sheet will rub the heat from the papers. I know it is added extra step and time but if it gives a clean transfer it is well worth it.

BTW thank you for pointing out my boo boo.


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## RescueShirts (Jun 24, 2007)

I have not had the "curling issues" or the "polymer flecks" issues.

HOWEVER...

The photos made me do a double take.

I have been putting the *Red paper* down first... and the *Green paper* over the top... then pressing.

I just searched the posts and found recommendations for the *Green* to go on the bottom... however, this is not listed on my ImageClip paper instructions... so where did people get the idea that the *Green *goes on the bottom?

Haven't really had any problems with the shirts I have printed/pressed... so does it really matter?

... unless it means I am getting less polymer transferred to the *Red* sheet?

 Brett


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

Brett thanks for the informative post. Also a nod of thanks to Luis for your "cookie sheet" tip. It would be cool to see some detailed picts of your prints.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RescueShirts said:


> I have not had the "curling issues" or the "polymer flecks" issues.
> 
> HOWEVER...
> 
> ...


The reason I have the green paper on the bottom is the exposed piece of the red paper tends to stick to the upper platten when the press is opened.

I got PM from few members asking me how to minimize excessive specks. Like I said I had that problem too that is why I found a solution that worked for me. I am glad you do not have curling and specks issues. Some of us that do need to do something. What works for one may not work for another.


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## RescueShirts (Jun 24, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> The reason I have the green paper on the bottom is the exposed piece of the red paper tends to stick to the upper platten when the press is opened.
> 
> I got PM from few members asking me how to minimize excessive specks. Like I said I had that problem too that is why I found a solution that worked for me. I am glad you do not have curling and specks issues. Some of us that do need to do something. What works for one may not work for another.


So... the paper position was simply to keep it from sticking to the upper platen?

Haven't had that problem.

Also... when I read before that the paper could curl... an one person recommending flipping it over and pressing it again for 5 seconds... I wondered why mine never curled.

Then again... I see recommendations of 210F (which I use) and 225F... maybe at 225F it would curl the paper?

Also... when my shirts are washed wrong (i.e. wife puts them in with the whites with HOT water)... the image cracks a bit... i.e. not very forgiving for customers who don't follow my "wash in cold" hang tag instructions.

In any case... the reason I mention about the curling and positions of the paper and the temp... is that I could be making good looking transfers/shirts... with less than ideal polymer thickness/adhesion... and I wouldn't know there was a problem until after many washes.


So... that I why I am wondering if my sheets do not curl like yours... am I "missing" something?

 Brett


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

prometheus said:


> Brett thanks for the informative post. Also a nod of thanks to Luis for your "cookie sheet" tip. It would be cool to see some detailed picts of your prints.


Thank you prometheus excuse the error in step 1 of the procedure though. I do have prints posted.

Here are a couple of links to the posts:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p101108-post35.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p127002-post4.html


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

lnfortun said:


> Thank you prometheus excuse the error in step 1 of the procedure though. I do have prints posted.
> 
> Here are a couple of links to the posts:
> 
> ...


Thanks Luis, I've seen those before, I appreciate it.  I was thinking that maybe Brett could post some pictures. I should have been more specific.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RescueShirts said:


> So... the paper position was simply to keep it from sticking to the upper platen?
> 
> Haven't had that problem.
> 
> ...


Brett,

That is true it is mainly for sticking issue. Maybe the reason you don't have sticking problem is you are using 11 X 17 transfer paper. The weight of the paper makes it peel off from the upper platten when you open the press. I did try flipping and press for 5 seconds to prevent curling. It did prevent curling but it did not solve the speck issue.

One thing you could do to minimize the cracking, which I have been doing lately, is to lower the upper platten on the shirt without locking it down. I then stretch the sides of the shirts while it is being held down by the upper platten. Lock down the upper platten and press the shirt for 2 to 3 seconds. Open up the press, lay the transfer paper and press very hard with dwell time that works for you. Peel hot , cover the shirt with teflon sheet or parchment paper and press it again for 10 seconds. Peel hot. 

What causes the cracking that you see is the polymer/toner does not penetrate the material between the knit ribs. It is worse on course knit fabric (sweatshirts and 100% cotton T-shirts). By pre stretching the shirt before pressing the transfer, the void area will be exposed so that when the transfer is pressed the void area will be filled with polymer/toner.

BTW plastisol transfer cracks too when the sides of the shirt are stretched. Lets put this way the customer will not stretch the shirt while wearing it. Unless it is a muscle shirt which is tight fit.

Post pressing takes away the screen print feel but then again it minimizes the cracking. Less cracking outways the screen print feel IMO. Its a matter of choice.

I red a post from one of the members that he inserts inside the shirt a cardboard to stretch the shirt. It temporarily worked for him until the shirt starts showing cardboard rib marks on the shirt and the cardboard starts to curl. The cardboard does not hold up with repeated use under high temp. So he is looking for better material.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

So what do you guys think of the color reproduction on ImageClip as compared to inkjet paper? Is the photographic quality as good....compared after a wash or two?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

rrc62 said:


> Luis...You pressing the first or second step at 400/10? Coastal recommends 210/10 for the first step and 400/10 for pressing to the garment. have you tried pressing one time with the silicon sheet with higher dwell time?


The step 1 in the procedure has been corrected to read "210F temp for 10 seconds". Thanks to Rodney for editing it for me.


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## diane143 (Nov 17, 2006)

Just wanted to quickly update this thread. I have yet to buy a cookie sheet but I have tried the double press method on the transfer paper. This weekend I decided to do some more color testing. I printed a couple of sample files that come with Illustrator. One was a cheshire cat with a full black background, the other was a single flower, so there was a lot of white space around it. 

I did the rose first, 10 seconds at 210 with the corner of the paper bent back. I then put the teflon sheet over it and pressed another 5 seconds. I opened the press, took the sheet off, but the paper was stuck to it so the whole thing fell to the floor. It was still flat but I put it back in the press for another couple of seconds. This time I was prepared and didn't drop everything LOL. But not one speck of white was on the blank part of the image! That's the first time this has worked so well for this paper. 

I think maybe the tolerances for the first paper press may be a little higher? ie time?

Anyone try a higher temp? My press usually hits 213 when it first warms up to 210.

Anyway, I am pretty excited about this find. I will still look for that cookie sheet too! 

Diane


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

diane143 said:


> Just wanted to quickly update this thread. I have yet to buy a cookie sheet but I have tried the double press method on the transfer paper. This weekend I decided to do some more color testing. I printed a couple of sample files that come with Illustrator. One was a cheshire cat with a full black background, the other was a single flower, so there was a lot of white space around it.
> 
> I did the rose first, 10 seconds at 210 with the corner of the paper bent back. I then put the teflon sheet over it and pressed another 5 seconds. I opened the press, took the sheet off, but the paper was stuck to it so the whole thing fell to the floor. It was still flat but I put it back in the press for another couple of seconds. This time I was prepared and didn't drop everything LOL. But not one speck of white was on the blank part of the image! That's the first time this has worked so well for this paper.
> 
> ...


Target has it for $7.99. Hust make sure that one surface is smooth and not that is impressed on either side. Otherwise the logo will leave a mark on the transfer paper. It is a generic brand.

I have made some modification the cookie sheet process.

I also discovered that second pressing with silicon baking sheet is not necessary. Here is what I did and got better coverage (I got this idea from another member a while back. Just haven't tried it) :

1) Set the pressure to light with baking sheet clamped in place
2) Set temp at 210F
3) Lay the baking sheet first on the lower platten
4) Lay the transfer papers on top of the baking sheet
5) Press the sheets for 10 seconds
6) Open the press
7) Grab the stack
8) Flip the stack so that the papers are under the baking sheet
9) Lay the stack back on the lower paltten
10) Peel the paper apart while keeping the baking sheet on top of the stack.

I skipped the second pressing which is a time saver and also the polymer coverage is greatly improved. I listed 10 seconds for dwell time because that is a factory recommended setting but like I said earlier I have experimented lowering it to 5 seconds and still get good polymer coverage of light color although it still botchy but better than higher dwell time.

So far I have spent a few transfer paper. I don't mind doing this test because it is going to help me also in the long run. That is how I discovered the silicon baking sheet technique.

BTW I pressed my grandaughters picture using the new proceedure with 5 second dwell time. The color and contrast need tweaking but other than that it turned out good: 









5 seconds worked for the photo but when I used that dwell time today for a heavily saturated image the polymer did not bond in some area. So I went back to 10 seconds, no second pressing and slightly higher pressure and everything went fine. I did some ash sweathsirts , pink and dark grey kid size shirts with no problem.


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## stuffnthingz (Oct 1, 2007)

I finally got an order of ImageClip. I tried to stay with DuraCotton, but that darn polymer window pops up too often for my liking. I experimented over the weekend with my baking pad and a very thin teflon pillow under the papers for step 1. I have a manual press and do not like having to crank the handle on the pressure when moving to step 2 so I think for my next "round" I will have to set up my travel press for the first step and leave the big press at high pressure for the second step. My results were awesome! I did a dark green shirt, a faded blue pull over hoodie and then did a "production" job. A dark grey youth hoodie with black distressed lettering and it is just awesome. I did see some cracking, I need to be sure to use lots of pressure, and stretch the garment. But I am very happy with the results. I can now use DC and JPSS on lights and IC for dark jobs. I even liked the muted dark color tones on the colored design I put on the blue hoody. Of course for the darks I will have to be sure my design is appropriately "darkened" to look good.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

stuffnthingz said:


> I finally got an order of ImageClip. I tried to stay with DuraCotton, but that darn polymer window pops up too often for my liking. I experimented over the weekend with my baking pad and a very thin teflon pillow under the papers for step 1. I have a manual press and do not like having to crank the handle on the pressure when moving to step 2 so I think for my next "round" I will have to set up my travel press for the first step and leave the big press at high pressure for the second step. My results were awesome! I did a dark green shirt, a faded blue pull over hoodie and then did a "production" job. A dark grey youth hoodie with black distressed lettering and it is just awesome. I did see some cracking, I need to be sure to use lots of pressure, and stretch the garment. But I am very happy with the results. I can now use DC and JPSS on lights and IC for dark jobs. I even liked the muted dark color tones on the colored design I put on the blue hoody. Of course for the darks I will have to be sure my design is appropriately "darkened" to look good.


Good for you. Just do not be surprised when it comes to very light pastel color designs. Some are ready to throw in the towel because of that limitation. Of course you have DC and JPSS to fall back on.

Like you I am sold with *Imageclip* from the day I tried one set of sample paper trouble free. Been using it ever since.


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## diane143 (Nov 17, 2006)

stuffnthingz said:


> . I did see some cracking, I need to be sure to use lots of pressure, and stretch the garment.


When are you stretching, right after the press?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I find prestretching the shirt helps a lot especially fleece. I use the technique I described here: Imageclip-How to minimize cracking??? - T-Shirt Forums

Post stretching and pressing the shirt again covered with teflon or parchment paper helps too but not as much as *prestretching*. So I do both ways.


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

stuffnthingz said:


> I can now use DC and JPSS on lights and IC for dark jobs. I even liked the muted dark color tones on the colored design I put on the blue hoody. Of course for the darks I will have to be sure my design is appropriately "darkened" to look good.


You are using ImageClip on darks? I thought it was for lights. Or are you printing just black onto the darks?


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## stuffnthingz (Oct 1, 2007)

I am indeed printing on dark garments, but with designs that are muted and dark. They look very cool! I pre stretch and post stretch with good results. The pic attached is a medium grey with a dark grey transfer...


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

stuffnthingz said:


> I am indeed printing on dark garments, but with designs that are muted and dark. They look very cool! I pre stretch and post stretch with good results. The pic attached is a medium grey with a dark grey transfer...


Did you a disressed design? or That just the way it transferred.


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## hechtgirl (Jul 15, 2008)

Yesterday I received my sample pack of ImageClip from Coastal and tried it. I did what the instructions said but it didn’t work out very well. I heated the press to 215 degrees, put the red and green paper together and pressed for 10 sec. I peeled them apart hot, heated the press up to 400 degrees, placed the transfer on t-shirt and press for 20 sec. When I removed the paper the t-shirt looked like the paper was stuck all over it. The color was good but it was all cracked up. I then washed it to see if the paper looking thing and feel would change, but it didn’t. The color still looked great. What did I do wrong?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Congratulations on your new purchases and good luck......JB


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

ivangeer said:


> Hello Bret,
> 
> My name is Ivan. I have a photostudio and starting the tshirt business. As a mather of fact i am also thinking of buying the same equipment as you. I only don't know where, and for how much. Can you please share this info with me.
> 
> Regards, Ivan


hello Ivan I thought you were enamoured with the epson 1400. If something changed you mind, would you please let me know what it was? Are you wanting something different from the laser printer? I ask because I got the 1400 and refillable carts for the 1400 with the claria computable inks and would like to know if I'm heading for a let down before it happens in front of a customer or during a production run.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

hechtgirl said:


> Yesterday I received my sample pack of ImageClip from Coastal and tried it. I did what the instructions said but it didn’t work out very well. I heated the press to 215 degrees, put the red and green paper together and pressed for 10 sec. I peeled them apart hot, heated the press up to 400 degrees, placed the transfer on t-shirt and press for 20 sec. When I removed the paper the t-shirt looked like the paper was stuck all over it. The color was good but it was all cracked up. I then washed it to see if the paper looking thing and feel would change, but it didn’t. The color still looked great. What did I do wrong?


Sounds like you had too much polymer transfer over the the clear area on your first stage pressing. That means either too much pressure or too much heat or both. pressure on the first stage pressing must be very light, which can be tricky if your press platen is not perfectly flat...and many of them are not. There are so many that are not perfectly flat that GK actually states that the dished platen surface is a "design feature". In reality, the platen is aluminum and aluminum moves and flexes when you heat it. You can use a thick foam pad under the red/green sheets to get around that. Search for my pat posts. I wrote a post on using the foam pad.

Image clip is technically demanding. Unlike other papers, pressure, dwell time and even print density are very critical. To get it right it just takes (1) trial and error or (2) looking over someones shoulder who has already gone through the trial and error stage. Keep at it. The results are well worth the effort.


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## hechtgirl (Jul 15, 2008)

Thank you Ross. I will try again and post my results. I am hoping for a better one this time.


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## jmbenning (Aug 26, 2008)

Ack, same position! I was sold on epson 1400 til a friend of mine said a majority of companies are using laser now.

I'm at crossroad! 

I'd love photos of the differences!


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## charmthepi (Sep 10, 2008)

rrc62 said:


> Sounds like you had too much polymer transfer over the the clear area on your first stage pressing. That means either too much pressure or too much heat or both. pressure on the first stage pressing must be very light, which can be tricky if your press platen is not perfectly flat...and many of them are not. There are so many that are not perfectly flat that GK actually states that the dished platen surface is a "design feature". In reality, the platen is aluminum and aluminum moves and flexes when you heat it. You can use a thick foam pad under the red/green sheets to get around that. Search for my pat posts. I wrote a post on using the foam pad.
> 
> Image clip is technically demanding. Unlike other papers, pressure, dwell time and even print density are very critical. To get it right it just takes (1) trial and error or (2) looking over someones shoulder who has already gone through the trial and error stage. Keep at it. The results are well worth the effort.


hi i am a newbie and i've been using IC transfers with no problem at all (other than forgetting to mirror the image, lol). i buy my paper from a place called "southeast specialty", i put the 2 papers together and press at 210 degrees for 20 seconds using light pressure. then i heat the press to 400 degrees and press the transfer on the shirt for 15 seconds using heavy pressure and TADOW a perfect tranfser everytime! also i use a teflon paper when pressing at both stages. hope this helps anyone. 
p.s. i'm trying to find IC paper for darks, heard of it but never seen it...anyone here know about it?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I have not heard of IC for dark. There is Wow 7.1 by The Magic Touch USA that uses the same concept. It is very pricey.


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## BGSSUB (Oct 17, 2008)

Do you make any special adjustments to the paper feed pressure for the ImageClip papers? For the Forever Laser-Dark Opaque papers I had lots of problems with streaking, etc. even when using the ultra-heavy setting or labels setting in the print command. I was then told by a very helpful tech to actually set the printer (via the menu on the printer itself) to have the Multi-purpose tray use the Ultra-Heavy setting and then in the print settings on the computer select "printer setting" for the paper weight. Solved my streaking problem. Haven't used my ImageClip papers, yet ... so was just wondering what setting works best with them.


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## stuffnthingz (Oct 1, 2007)

I use the heavy setting on my oki 5800 and with Image Clip I get no streaking at all and with Duracotton I do get minimal streaking, usually only if I am printing more that 3 or so at a time. I am very careful to keep my printer from overheating. Because the printer is so fast I just print 1 to 3 at a time while working on other tasks and I don't find it to be a huge slow down.


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## goodtease (Nov 29, 2006)

I just got an Okidata c6050 and did my first run of ImageClip through it today. Works great. I did 10 sheets at a time and had no problems. Setting was at Heavy for Paper and used the manual feed in front and opened up the back side so it exited the back of the printer instead of curling up to the top.

I also just used it with Duracotton HT. I haven't really had much success with this paper because it usually leaves a window no matter what. I tired the Duracotton HT with the Okidata c6050 and it came out nice with no grey area around the image. I pressed it on a GK at 400 for 10 seconds. Looks good. Very very faint window....but hopefully this will come out with a few washes. 

Overall I think this is the best laser printer I have used. and I got it for $261 bucks brand new!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

BGSSUB said:


> Do you make any special adjustments to the paper feed pressure for the ImageClip papers? For the Forever Laser-Dark Opaque papers I had lots of problems with streaking, etc. even when using the ultra-heavy setting or labels setting in the print command. I was then told by a very helpful tech to actually set the printer (via the menu on the printer itself) to have the Multi-purpose tray use the Ultra-Heavy setting and then in the print settings on the computer select "printer setting" for the paper weight. Solved my streaking problem. Haven't used my ImageClip papers, yet ... so was just wondering what setting works best with them.


I hope you have better luck with Forever Laser-Dark Opaque paper. When I tried it cracked and peeled after it has been through hot dryer. It was even washed in cold water. I mean major cracking.


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## Jamey (Dec 22, 2008)

I know this thread is old...but how is that working for ya now?


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