# Is DTG as good as it sounds to me?



## Alan (Jul 7, 2007)

I just heard about DTG printing for the first time, and it sounds like a great deal to me. I became an injet and dye sub printer in the first place because what's most important to me is that my artwork be reproduced accurately, My only setback is fabric and color limitations. 

If I wanted to digitally reproduce my artwork onto any fabric or any color would DTG printing be as good as it seems to be? I looked in some old posts and heard some opinions that the end result is inferior to screen printing. What I'm most interested in are the limitations of DTG, because there's always a catch. Thanks guys.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

The short answer is yes....and no. 

Easier to learn than screenprinting. Takes up WAY less space. No mess. You can do one offs and short runs. Excellent print quality, especially on photographic/detailed images.

Costs more in equipment as well as per print. Not everyone can get excellent results on dark shirts with the pretreatment process. Spot color designs are not as good as SP. Inks are less opaque than SP.

I could write a 10 page comparo, but this is the general idea.

As far as color reproduction, it is no different than any other medium. GIGO. You still need proper monitor/scanner/camera profiling, along with proper icc profiles for the ink/printer/shirt you are using.


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## Alan (Jul 7, 2007)

Very helpful dude. I'll probably call somebody up and get a detailed run down of it all. That told me a lot though. I think the pros will probably outweigh the cons for me. I'll let you know if I get into it.


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## jki540 (May 29, 2007)

hi alan...i'm also interested in DTG over all the other methods i've observed. screen printing, i think, is going to have the best quality. that opinion seems almost universal on this forum. however, with SP i think there's a great deal of skill involved with a steep learning curve. it's really an art. and if you're doing large runs, there's probably nothing better.

i plan on doing very short runs. one shirt/graphic at a time. i want to print onto dark t-shirts. quality is important, but not as important as being able to print graphics in full color, one at a time. from what i've learned thru this forum, i think DTG is going to be my best bet. i've begun researching various machines, and the DTG HM-1 seems to be the front runner right now. i'll finance the purchase, so as long as i can sell 50 t-shirts per month, i'll break-even on the equipt. it's kind of a risk, but the simplicity of these machines also interests me. if i want someone else to print the shirts for me, it's easier to teach someone how to print with a DTG than how to screen print.

anyway...just my $0.02 (not that you asked!


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

I've been planning to purchase the HM1 or Eclipse for quite some time now. The plan is still "on-hold" for these reasons:
1) Our local distributor admiited to me that printing on black/dark shirts is still too costly for our local market, (so he advised me to concentrate on white shirts at the moment to make some money)
2) For white shirts, I'm still satisfied with the output, cost-wise & quality-wise, that I'm getting from my CLC printer, and laser transfers.
3) I realized that printing on shirts using the CLC is much faster than printing using a DTG, because you also have to heat press the shirt after printing on a DTG.
4) Our local distributor mentioned something about Dupont building a new white Ink factory/facility, so the price of white ink should considerably go down. I'm not 100% sure though if this new white ink from Dupont will still be exactly the same white ink used for the HM1 or Eclipse, so the my DTG purchase will have to wait a little.


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

If you ask me? NO!!!! I bought a DTG Kiosk 2 months ago and it has been nothing but a money drain. The white ink is NOT compatible with the dampers. They clog constantly. They will clog as you are printing. I swirl the ink several times a day. I often have to remove the dampers to clean them. As of now they are clogged solid. That is $150.00 worth of clogged garbage. These dampers are but a few weeks old. I want this piece of garbage out of my life. It is junk. 
My advice is to stear clear of DTG. Untill they can come up with a white ink that actually works it is a waste of your time and money. If they take this junk off of my hands, I will call my lawyer and file a suit. They falsely claim benefits of white ink that simply is not true. DTG is JUNK


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## Alan (Jul 7, 2007)

Gah! That was a negative response! I hope everything works out for you. Sounds like you're putting up with a lot. 

I definitely will not be buying anything for some time. Hopefully some of these bugs get ironed out soon. Thanks for your input.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Flying Loom said:


> If you ask me? NO!!!! I bought a DTG Kiosk 2 months ago and it has been nothing but a money drain. The white ink is NOT compatible with the dampers. They clog constantly. They will clog as you are printing. I swirl the ink several times a day. I often have to remove the dampers to clean them. As of now they are clogged solid. That is $150.00 worth of clogged garbage. These dampers are but a few weeks old. I want this piece of garbage out of my life. It is junk.
> My advice is to stear clear of DTG. Untill they can come up with a white ink that actually works it is a waste of your time and money. If they take this junk off of my hands, I will call my lawyer and file a suit. They falsely claim benefits of white ink that simply is not true. DTG is JUNK


I was wondering if your kiosk had the white agitator on it? If not maybe that is something to consider adding to your machine.

Bobbie


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

To be honest, when it white does flow, it prints very nice. But, when it does not flow, it is a money waste. I have had nothing but trouble from the very first day with the white ink. At one point I was told to dump the white that was in the container and to replace it with new ink. The white that was on the machine came with it. That is $150.00 down the drain. I ran white most of the day on thursday. I performed the required maintenance before shutting down. Friday morning, nothing! No white would flow. I remove the dampers and cleaned them. I cleaned the ink lines. Throughout the day it clogged. Wasted several shirts. I did the maintenance required and called it a day. Today, nothing. I've spent the entire morning and up untill about an hour ago, trying to clean the dampers. They are clogged solid. My opinion is that they trump up something that they know is not true. If they would had been more honest, I would not had bought this thing. Untill they get the white figured out, it is a waste of time and money. I am not about to waste anymore money on dampers. They can have this piece of junk back.


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

sunnydayz said:


> I was wondering if your kiosk had the white agitator on it? If not maybe that is something to consider adding to your machine.
> 
> Bobbie


It has the agitator and runs 24 hours a day. It is running right now. I don't know why. Just wasting electricity.
Like I said in one post. When the white does flow smoothly, it prints great.
I am just completely frustrated, right now.


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## Alan (Jul 7, 2007)

Yeah, I can concur with that. I HATE wasting shirts or having to cancel prints! Even with inkjet transfers. 

Have you talked to anybody else that runs the machine? Maybe it's just this one machine and you can get it taken care of. Surely not everybody's having issues that serious..?


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

Alan said:


> Yeah, I can concur with that. I HATE wasting shirts or having to cancel prints! Even with inkjet transfers.
> 
> Have you talked to anybody else that runs the machine? Maybe it's just this one machine and you can get it taken care of. Surely not everybody's having issues that serious..?


I know, I probally shouldn't had posted sounding so frustrated. But, I tell ya'. White ink is driving me crazy and costing me all of my profit. Some days it runs without fail. 1 week ago, I ran 100 shirts to take to the dropzone and the machine ran great. Not one single problem. This week, it has been clog after clog. Friday morning I did the usual head check and it was fine. I run a few shirts and it starts clogging. All day today, clogs. The dampers are so clogged that I can't even push cleaning fluid mixed with distilled water through them.
I really believe that the white ink is the sole problem.
If anyone has a solution, I'd love to hear it as I do sell quite a few shirts and everyone is amazed at the quality. It does print beautifully when the white is flowing.


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

I've been looking at DTG printers for two years now ..... and I'm still looking.

To me, direct to garment printers are most impressive when printing light garments but when it comes to printing on darks, no DTG manufacturer has yet convinced me that they have a feasible, economical and quick print speed solution.

Bob


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Flying Loom said:


> .....My opinion is that they trump up something that they know is not true. If they would had been more honest, I would not had bought this thing. Untill they get the white figured out, it is a waste of time and money. I am not about to waste anymore money on dampers. They can have this piece of junk back.


And I can just imagine your added frustration when sooner you get a problem with your print head and they tell you that you have to replace them (just after your warranty expired).

Don't you wist that DTG Printing is as "simple" as Machine Embroidery?


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Flying Loom said:


> I know, I probally shouldn't had posted sounding so frustrated. But, I tell ya'. White ink is driving me crazy and costing me all of my profit. Some days it runs without fail. 1 week ago, I ran 100 shirts to take to the dropzone and the machine ran great. Not one single problem. This week, it has been clog after clog. Friday morning I did the usual head check and it was fine. I run a few shirts and it starts clogging. All day today, clogs. The dampers are so clogged that I can't even push cleaning fluid mixed with distilled water through them.
> I really believe that the white ink is the sole problem.
> If anyone has a solution, I'd love to hear it as I do sell quite a few shirts and everyone is amazed at the quality. It does print beautifully when the white is flowing.


You should have a tech come out to look at the machine, that does not sound normal at all.

I agree with you, white ink has it's on and off days. The suggested maintenance says to flush the white ink lines and dampers once a month. We do it ever other week, and it seems to keep things running smoothly.
Also, we don't even have the white ink agitator so it really sounds like there is something else going on.

As for the original question "Is DTG as good as it sounds to me?", it really depends on what you are trying to do. The machine can produce great looking prints with little or no setup time, but a lot of time needs to go into being proficient with the pre-treatement and the daily / weekly / monthly maintenance of the machine. Also, get used to parts like any other machine going bad and having to have them shipped to you and installed by you.

Recently our Ink counter board went bad and we had to get a replacement. Installing it was pretty straight forward, but the down time amounted to about 3 1/2 days even with overnight shipping.

Overall, I'm really happy we went with a Kiosk, but I really wish the HM1 was out when we bought!


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

vctradingcubao said:


> And I can just imagine your added frustration when sooner you get a problem with your print head and they tell you that you have to replace them (just after your warranty expired).
> 
> Don't you wist that DTG Printing is as "simple" as Machine Embroidery?


I'd be happy if you just put a shirt in and hit print, and it printed what you intended!!
There is also a learning curve for the software and color profiling which is always a pain.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> ......I agree with you, white ink has it's on and off days. The suggested maintenance says to flush the white ink lines and dampers once a month. We do it ever other week, and it seems to keep things running smoothly.
> Also, we don't even have the white ink agitator so it really sounds like there is something else going on.


Could the problem be caused by the room temperature, humidity, etc...?


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Very good question.
I wish the Dupont guys would pop in here once and awhile to give us some feedback and an update on things they are working on.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Justin walker had a great tip on how to make sure the humidity is right, he installed a digital humidity reader right by his machine and said it should be at around 50% humidity to run best. The post with the info is in the dtg section of the board.
Bobbie


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

Humidity can sometimes be an issue. We have a shop about 6 miles from Flying Loom in MO, so I am familiar with the weather issues. We keep a humidifier running whenever we print with the Kornit. In my shop in TN I know that maintenance on my Tjets is what keeps the white ink printing well. I also have a DTG Kiosk, but it is just setup for 7 color, I have not run white, so I have not experienced the issues with the dampers.

I know how frustrating the white issue can be. I was the first guy to get the white kit from Fresner in '05. Imagine all I have gone thru in the last 22 months. I finally have a decent system in place, and I still would not use it for runs over 6. Just too hard to get consistent results on longer runs. Not to mention the time and cost.

Overall I really think the answer is two machines. One 7 color setup for whites, (mine have been down very little in over two years), and one setup for runs of six or less darks that you are getting $20+ per shirt for. Your business model has to be able to support this, but it has worked out great for us. I even get to double production on whites this way when I have a larger order.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Wow Marc, 05 !!?? I can only imagine since so much has changed for us buying the machine about a year ago.
We've changed White Ink, colored ink (2 times), Rip Software, and replaced the print chip board which does an auto head clean every 4-6 hours.

The days when I am frustrated, I look back and then think of the changes that will be in store for us in the next few months to make printing easier.


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

Printzilla said:


> Humidity can sometimes be an issue. We have a shop about 6 miles from Flying Loom in MO, so I am familiar with the weather issues.


Not as frustrated today as I was yesterday. 
Where is your shop located? I only know of RLJ's and Sceen Masters.
The humidity could be playing some factor in the clogging but, i would think minimal. It hasn't been bad this year and my prints have been great. It has clogged since the beginning. The color ink as ran great. It is always the white clogging the filter. I've taken a damper apart and have examined the filter under a loupe and can see the build up which, I am assuming, is titanium dioxide metal. They really need a white ink and a damper that is compatible with each other.
Earlier comment calling it junk was abit out of line as I am happy with the print and so has everyone who has used me or bought my own designs.
If I were to be looking for the first time again, I'd definitely ask more questions concerning the white ink. 
I do see a need for a damper inwhich the filter could be changed out.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Not to kill the buzz, but everything that I am hearing is the cost for the new Dupont White ink is not going down. But, the new white ink is suppose to dramatically reduce the amount of clogging. Until there gets to be more competition out there for Dupont on the white ink, I would not expect to see prices drop that much. Dupont has not real reason to do so. The R&H white ink is not white enough so that is why almost every DTG manufacturer uses / recommends the Dupont white ink. But at least the issue of clogging is trying to be resolved. We will have to see when the ink is release in Sept. or Oct. of this year. Praying for the best, hoping for any type of improvement.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I am partners with the guys who used to be RLJ. They sold out, and we do not do any local work, only contract work on the Kornit.


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## Alastair (Jun 22, 2007)

Flying Loom said:


> Not as frustrated today as I was yesterday.
> Where is your shop located? I only know of RLJ's and Sceen Masters.
> The humidity could be playing some factor in the clogging but, i would think minimal. It hasn't been bad this year and my prints have been great. It has clogged since the beginning. The color ink as ran great. It is always the white clogging the filter. I've taken a damper apart and have examined the filter under a loupe and can see the build up which, I am assuming, is titanium dioxide metal. They really need a white ink and a damper that is compatible with each other.
> Earlier comment calling it junk was abit out of line as I am happy with the print and so has everyone who has used me or bought my own designs.
> ...


We change our Kiosk dampers every two weeks, putting the used ones straight into an ultrasonic cleaner full of Simple Green and distilled water. Firing Simple Green and distilled water through with syringe also works and enables you to re-use them. As for the agitator (or WIMS system) - it doesn't work. We still get a lump of solid ink in the tank and have to agitate it manually. The suppliers acknowledge the problem, but have done nothing about it. It needs to be agitating at least once an hour, not every six hours - how difficult would that be to sort out?


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

Alastair said:


> We change our Kiosk dampers every two weeks, putting the used ones straight into an ultrasonic cleaner full of Simple Green and distilled water. Firing Simple Green and distilled water through with syringe also works and enables you to re-use them. As for the agitator (or WIMS system) - it doesn't work. We still get a lump of solid ink in the tank and have to agitate it manually. The suppliers acknowledge the problem, but have done nothing about it. It needs to be agitating at least once an hour, not every six hours - how difficult would that be to sort out?


Thanks. You answered the question I was going to ask. I have tried several solvents but, none were successful in cutting through the white ink build up on the filter. Will be trying the simple green and ultrasonic cleaner. Will have to purchase a UX cleaner.
As for build up in the agitator. I have a lot of that. My agitator runs 24 hour, 7 days a week. My thought is that the titanium dioxide metal is attracted to the magnetic base of the agitator causing the build up.
Other than the white problem, all is fine. But, the white problem causes a large amount of down time. Unacceptable.


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

Printzilla said:


> I am partners with the guys who used to be RLJ. They sold out, and we do not do any local work, only contract work on the Kornit.


I have never actually met the former owners but am aware of them. I believe their names are Robert and Linda.
No local work? Good for me . I actually do more of my own designs and sell at dropzones and skydive events. My goal is to break further into the skydive apparel market and have done good sofar (downtime and dampers are killing me though). Everyone who has bought my shirts have stated that my designs are far better than Jumper Sportswear (now owned by U.S. Logo). 
Is your Mo. shop still located on Hwy 39?


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

DAGuide said:


> Not to kill the buzz, but everything that I am hearing is the cost for the new Dupont White ink is not going down.


I don't really see a reason for them to lower the price however in the past year I've seen a litre go from about $320 down to $278 so hopefully it keeps on that trend for a bit longer before it flat lines.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Alastair said:


> We change our Kiosk dampers every two weeks, putting the used ones straight into an ultrasonic cleaner full of Simple Green and distilled water. Firing Simple Green and distilled water through with syringe also works and enables you to re-use them. As for the agitator (or WIMS system) - it doesn't work. We still get a lump of solid ink in the tank and have to agitate it manually. The suppliers acknowledge the problem, but have done nothing about it. It needs to be agitating at least once an hour, not every six hours - how difficult would that be to sort out?


Great idea about rotating the dampers, we usually just flush them out along with the ink lines every other week.


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## Alastair (Jun 22, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Great idea about rotating the dampers, we usually just flush them out along with the ink lines every other week.


Cheers Adam, now get back to work......


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

I have to say that Dampers and White Ink are really starting to irk me. This is the 2nd time in a month that I've had ink starvation issues that usually happen mid-print (thus screwing up a t-shirt). I flushed and cleaned out my entire system less then a month ago. The problem I see is that ink settles in the lines and bottles within a matter of hours and especially worse overnight.

I also do a fortnightly or monthly clean of the white ink dampers. The amount of white ink gunk that build-ups near the o-rings and the filter inside is incredible. no wonder white ink is such a problem with DTG printing.


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## rogz (Aug 9, 2007)

Hello. I just have a q for all people from USA. I tried to find a price for DTG Kiosk, but nowhere i can find it. Can someone please tell me what it is starting on?

Thx Rogz


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## Flying Loom (Jun 29, 2007)

rogz said:


> Hello. I just have a q for all people from USA. I tried to find a price for DTG Kiosk, but nowhere i can find it. Can someone please tell me what it is starting on?
> 
> Thx Rogz


Here you go Rogz
http://http://www.dtgamerica.com/west/west_kiosk.shtml


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## ukshirtguy (Nov 23, 2006)

Some of the comments and experiences posted in this thread have put me off dtg in a big way. I cannot see the point in laying out this kind of money if there are so many problems with white on black.

And to the guy who wants his machine taken back and then sue the company, I know exactly how you feel and I would like to sue at least 3 manufacturers of printing machines.

The best machines I have ever had are unmodified epsons, especially my wide format 9600 which never ever goes wrong and never clogs up, even after 2-3 months of no use, in a changing environment with heat, cold, humid and air con !


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

...ukshirtguy... are you doing DTG printing with the 9600 and the other unmodified epsons on dark/black fabric? white ink?


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

No he is not.


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## lancelot (Jun 1, 2007)

Hello every body, I am usually the type of person who stands back and observes, but there is so much hype and unreal expectations about DTG printing I thought I may have to put my point foward.
It's close but not there for the casual user.
I do sub contract a few small DTG jobs out (they are great for photo's)I am not against the technology infact I love digital printers (I have a 72" HP5500 and soon to buy the new 72" cannon)but it is reliable and easy to use unlike the DTG machines out at the moment.
Thay are good for small runs but small runs are a slow way to make a profit, the outlay of the machine is great and you have to sell a lot of shirts to pay it off.
Plus the bulk of work out there is spot colour not DTG's strong point and alot of people want Black/dark shirts!.
So no,no it's not.


This is only my opinion
Thanks


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## discmann (Sep 3, 2007)

hi, what happened since 4th of august with your kiosk? i have bought an hm1 since exactly that date and since then i can't sleep well. i also think of the court too.
ilias


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

What is spot color?


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

ilias ? court as in legal??? that bad?


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## discmann (Sep 3, 2007)

it's that bad. well, i don't like court houses a lot i can say so that will be my very last way of reacting. problem with black tees, broblem with white ink in general, clogging without reason, what else could you get for 20k or more in athens?


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## akaratemom (Feb 20, 2007)

Hello! I have a Brother GT 541 DTG machine. I LOVE it!!!!! Before this, I had a machine that printed white (sometimes?). I, too, had more problems than it was worth, PLUS, printing on dark shirts was way too time consuming. The Brother is trouble free. We print on not only white and ash shirts, but I just printed full color prints on medium colored tan & green shirts. They look great! You would be surprised at the colors that you can use without white ink. I highly recommend the Brother. It costs a little more, but you get a much darker image in a lot less time and the machine is virtually trouble free.


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

a karate mom...
duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! if it was all that simple there would not be an issue...
ALL printers perform as well as the BROTHER FOR A LOT LESS MONEY if you stay away from dark...

...and the issue is to be able to print white... or no matter what we print... the method... the magic this or the magic that, just be able to print BLACK/DARK fabric...

*there are hardly any issues on almost any method of imprinting that cannot be resolved on LIGHT garments... thus the BROTHER stands out no more than any EXCEPT IT IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE!!! *

*ok.. karate me!!! LOL (all in fun... not attacking you)*


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## kustom (Aug 11, 2007)

nic what printer do you have?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

kustom said:


> nic what printer do you have?


Nic does not have a garment printer, I am still trying to figure out what nic is looking to do.  He seems to be having fun just posting I think hehe.

Bobbie


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

ok you poked at me and got me to squirm in my rocking chair...
Give me a chance... LOL... I am still analyzing this mess... I am trying to produce a write-up that will put an end to my chase... without making a total ... of myself... 

and *YES* you are right I have no printer yet... and for a few good reasons that will be obvious in my write-up...

but *NO*, I am not having fun... I want to go to work and stop feeling like I am overanalyzing... but the nature of the beast is that if one does not study this thoroughly one can be VERY SORRY!...

I have read enough now, to know what I can't afford a DTG printer(on the onset)
I also learned what to stay away from in some instances... and I can spill all the 8 ro 10 mainstream names in DTG devices in one breath.

But the thread is not whether one owns, can own, will own or not, it is about one's feeling about the viability of a DTG device for one's scenario, I think!

This is by far no black and white issue(s), it is dangerously full of pitfalls and pot holes... Granted some of people who have been in it for a long time and have settled for their particular groove tend to grin at people like me... at my level... and perhaps in time the grin will be on my face...

But as of now my small 2K budget has made it rather difficult to 'nail' the perfect startup setup that will guarantee I avoided blowing my last match in the breeze...

and of course you say... why are u even in a DTG thread...? ...well, I was sent here!!! and also the lure of the magical perfect method that prints all(LIGHTs and DARKs) on one machine... yeah right!!!

NO DTG is not for me at my stage and if I had the funds, I am not so sure I would be able to justify the ROI! and the high risk, due to the maintenance and pitfalls of a technology in progress. White inks are a nightmare of trouble for most... speed is another... yes DTG is the nice 'hand' method for almost any fabric... etc... but other solutions are so near in qualtiy and customer acceptance, that I still would not be able to justify it. A less than 2K investment in Laser Sublimation even with its own pitfalls is much less risky and allows one to adapt to other possibilities where as the DTG is DTG period.

DTG may be good for one who has a specific model... and can justify the number of garments to sell to get the ROI. Or one must have a lot of capital one can sit on without risk... Or, one who is using it as a supplement to an already succesful imprinting business.

You could say in my particular case the answer is *NO, DTG is not as good as it sounds to me*... but... ONLY BECAUSE OF MY CURRENT SCENARIO...

ok... did I realign the top on this open can of worms? hehhehe!


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I have to disagree with you Nic on the point you made that white ink is a nightmare for most, there are thousands of machines out there and only a small minority are on here having problems with white ink. I myself have had no difficulties at all as of yet, I am sure in the future I may but I am prepared for that and I know there is a chance of it. You do not hear on here of people who are not having problems. But it is good to do research and base your decision on your particular business model. Just as with all print methods there is a learning curve and all methods have their advantages and disadvantages. I myself am a very happy dtg owner. I hope you find what works for your business plan. , I was not being hostile with you, it just helps in threads that when you post info about a particular thing that you have experience and know what you are stating. 

Bobbie


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

didn't think you were/are hostile... I just speak it like it is... right or wrong... and now u have my attention... on your success... I would very much like to know more... incidentally I have just sent u an email... when I heard this thing beep at me there was an answer here... thus this message is after my email in time and context... Thank you.


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## Big E (Jan 2, 2007)

I have a DTG Kiosk and we don't run White ink and our machine works great. 

I kind of grin because I'm not pulling my hair out from the frustration of clogged lines, dampers, and print heads. We've only used it on Whites and lights (well Kelly Green and Red tees but we used Black ink on those) and don't go through those headache experiances that others do. 

We are selling ours only because we have to move another direction for now but if all goes as planned I will be purchasing another from the same company in the next 18 to 24 months. My machine works great!


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## jki540 (May 29, 2007)

just to throw my hat into the ring...i have a DTG printer and really love it. no serious problems so far (knock on wood as i type this). The thing to remember is that many ppl use this forum for problem solving (thank god for the forum...i can't imagine where i'd be without it!), so the posters are a bit self-selected.


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

...when you print on a DTG... must not the garment be stretched perfectly flat on the a tray? and clamped so as to not move? and then you cook it in an oven or press it? how long does it take for a 10x6 design to print? dry? how long to 'Prep' the garment if prep is needed?


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

NicMartel said:


> ...when you print on a DTG... must not the garment be stretched perfectly flat on the a tray? and clamped so as to not move?


No, there are several printers that don't use a hoop ring. Most of the new ones now don't use them. Just pre-press your shirt.



NicMartel said:


> ...and then you cook it in an oven or press it?


All dtg prints must be cured with either a heat press or a conveyor dryer. As far as I know, there is no UV curing dtg ink.



NicMartel said:


> ...how long does it take for a 10x6 design to print? dry?


Printing time depends on several factors (printer model, speed of RIP / software, amount of coverage in the graphic, what resolution are you printing, uni vs bi-directional,...). Lots of factors to consider. Drying time can be adjusted by increasing the temperature and shorting the time.



NicMartel said:


> ... how long to 'Prep' the garment if prep is needed?


For preping the garment for white ink printing, you have several different methods. Some people spend 15 seconds a shirt and allow the shirt to hang dry. Others spend 1 minute + per a shirt. It really depends on what method works best for you. The only way to find out is to roll up your sleeves and try.


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

thank you... for the detailed and complete answer... do give me an idea of the printing time and drying time a low and high figure if you have to, perhaps a middle of the road figure... I just need an idea not a list of specific values. for instance a hamburger meal is normally served under 3 minutes... someitmes as low as 2 minutes other times 5 and up... the middle of the road is 3 mins or less... so how long is that printer going to keep me hungry? or for instance, do it by comparaison... is it a bit slower than an Epson C88+ prints a transfer paper...


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Definitely faster than a C88 printer if it is only doing 1 pass on a light color shirt (i.e. no white ink). Some of the older dtg machines would need 2 passes to make the colors pop off. If so, the older machines would print close to a C88 printer. Newer machines are much faster and only need 1 pass for light color shirts. Average time on the size you mentioned could range around 30 seconds on up for one pass. 

For dark shirts, most manufacturers realistically state that the production is between 7 - 10 shirts an hour for an average size shirt. Your size is a little smaller...so more can be done. Depending on how intricate the design is, a dtg print is probably faster than doing print-cut when you including the weeding / masking time. Not to mention you have less hands-on work with a DTG machine than doing print-cut.

Again, all the numbers are averages based on what I have seen from several different machines. Some machines are faster than others. Some graphics can be done in less time while others in more time. Best thing to do is take one of your graphics to a trade show and see if they will print it for you. If so, time it.


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Most of the prints on our Flexi- jet take under 45 seconds- very dense prints at high resolution can take longer, about 1 1/2 minutes. That is printing dual CMYK with no white ink. 

Heat Press generally for 60 seconds. Also some people let their prints cool and run them through the heat press a second time hoping to improve wahsability.


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## Tagger (Sep 16, 2007)

Have you done the double press? If so, what were the results? I read that you don't want the too much pressure on the press so you don't trap moisture in. It sounds logical to do a double press because you would let some moisture out after the first press.


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Tagger said:


> Have you done the double press? If so, what were the results? I read that you don't want the too much pressure on the press so you don't trap moisture in. It sounds logical to do a double press because you would let some moisture out after the first press.


Yes we use barely any pressure- and the double press does seem to produce a slightly better wash- though we really haven't had a lot of fading overall with the R & H inks we have been using. We use silicon paper plus a Teflon sheet.

One Flexi owner has rigged his heat press so it does not touch the shirt- uses no cover sheet- he says since he has done this the results are even better- but I haven't tried it.

Michele


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## akaratemom (Feb 20, 2007)

Nic - no problem, but just to clarify --- I did try another printer without white ink and still had several issues - too much cleaning needed (wastes ink), too slow, needed two passes, etc. None of this is an issue with my Brother.

Thanks!
Suzan


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

Thank you all for the above batch of answers... extremely helpful.


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## kustom (Aug 11, 2007)

akaratemom said:


> Nic - no problem, but just to clarify --- I did try another printer without white ink and still had several issues - too much cleaning needed (wastes ink), too slow, needed two passes, etc. None of this is an issue with my Brother.
> 
> Thanks!
> Suzan


Suzan 

what printer did you have? and did you run it with white ink or as a cmyk printer? thanks


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## akaratemom (Feb 20, 2007)

Jeremy

I had a DTG Kiosk. First I had a refurbished with white ink - problems. Paid the difference and got a new one with white ink - problems. Purged the lines and used only colors without white. Still had problems, but not as much as with the white ink.

Now have a Brother.


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## Big E (Jan 2, 2007)

What problems were you having with the Kiosk K-Mom?
I had some issues with the black nozzle clogging at first but I replaced the capping station and mine works great.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I have the HM1 and I absolutely love it, I have had no issues at all. I am very dilligent about my maintenance and it runs beautifully. I think if you take the time to really take into account what needs to be done and do it on a regular basis than you can over come any of the so called problems. The orignal Kiosk I can see having problems just as you might with the old tjet but technology has gotten much better and alot of issues have been addressed with the newer machines so they dont have the original problems. I myself stand 100 percent behind my machine and do not have one single regret with my purchase. 

Bobbie


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## akaratemom (Feb 20, 2007)

My jets continued to clog causing prints with bad color. I don't want to put down the machines. I am sure that many are happy with it. With it, we printed with 2 passes for good quality, full size. It could take as long as 3 minutes for the photo prints we were doing. We found that we could do this on the Brother in 45 seconds with one pass. Time is money, so we changed machines. Also, it was relatively early on and I'm sure they have made improvements. Anyway - I love my Brother and wouldn't trade it!


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