# Newbie To Dye Sub Has Some Questions



## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

First off, thanks for whoever responds and helps me out. Heres where im at. I own a brick and mortar business now with open space and want to start doing the personalization stuff. Ive done tshirts before using inkjet and heat press. 

My questions are, whats the best way to start in dye sub? I was looking at the epson 1100 for dye sub. Are these legit and good to use? Also, do you just use the normal 4 ink cartridges for dye sub, or do i need the ink system. What is the ink system lol. 

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

don't do it. unless you print every day it is a waste of money. The ink costs are over the top, around $900/liter and double that for the ricoh printers. 

get a vinyl cutter and do shirts with it. you can also do banners if you want, or rhinestones. much less expensive and it can sit for months without use and just start up and work. no clogged print heads, no expensive ink, no specially coated products to print on.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

Well for my business i want to do the iphone covers, banners, keychains, mugs, all the random misc stuff.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

binki said:


> don't do it. unless you print every day it is a waste of money. The ink costs are over the top, around $900/liter and double that for the ricoh printers.
> 
> get a vinyl cutter and do shirts with it. you can also do banners if you want, or rhinestones. much less expensive and it can sit for months without use and just start up and work. no clogged print heads, no expensive ink, no specially coated products to print on.


This is like telling someone to not sell Mercedes because they cost $75K and instead sell Camrys becuase they are cheap and reliable. 

Every market has their niche. If he wants to sell cheap t-shirts do vinyl. If he wants to attack the high end market go dye sub. The most important thing is for him to identify the market he can most successfully penetrate than decide on printing method and products to offer.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Save yourself some $$ and start with an Epson C88+. The sub ink will cost you $340 for this printer. Next get your sub paper, about $15. Sounds like you already have a heat press, but you will need a mug press if you are thinking about doing mugs. You will also have to get some blanks that are made for sublimation. I get my sub supplies from conde, but there are other vendors that sell blanks and supplies for sublimation.

The only drawback is the ink clogs quickly, so it is suggested that you print something small every few days to keep the ink moving.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

lben said:


> Save yourself some $$ and start with an Epson C88+. The sub ink will cost you $340 for this printer. Next get your sub paper, about $15. Sounds like you already have a heat press, but you will need a mug press if you are thinking about doing mugs. You will also have to get some blanks that are made for sublimation. I get my sub supplies from conde, but there are other vendors that sell blanks and supplies for sublimation.
> 
> The only drawback is the ink clogs quickly, so it is suggested that you print something small every few days to keep the ink moving.


What inks are you refering to? The cheapest I have seen anything Sawgrass are Artanium bulk bottles and those are around $140 per 125 mL (x 4) so $560 for the CMYK set.

If you are referring to prefilled (but not refillable) carts those are cheaper upfront, but a *huge ripoff*. 

These are almost 4x as expensive if you look at cost per mL, and since the carts are throw-away they still can have ink remaining even though the ink counter can indicate empty. 

Time you do any head cleans, initial charging, and loss of ink due to the ink indicator prematurely indicating "empty" when they are not, you are looking at about $5 - $6 per letter size page.

Prefilled carts
18 mL $74 ($4.10 per mL)
Total cost $296 (CMYK)

Bulk Bottles
125 mL $140 ($1.12 per mL)
Total Cost $560 (CMYK)

Sawgrass SubliJet carts are even more _obscene_, $6.53 per mL.

Unless you are referring to a different sub ink vendor?

I don't recommend anyone ever buy prefilled desktop carts from Sawgrass.

Bulk inks are far cheaper and can be put in CIS or in refillable carts using a C88+ or similar printer.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I would suggest to start off small and if you like it then go for the refillable carts and the bulk bottles of ink. You might not like sublimation or you might love it. I agree with Mike, the Sawgrass inks are outrageously priced. I was getting sub ink somewhere else but they are no longer selling it. Now I have to find a new vendor for it.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Mike where do you get your bulk ink from?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

lben said:


> Mike where do you get your bulk ink from?


I have left the "dark side"  but one can find Art inks half price off the "Cartel" price here. 

Artainium UV+ Sublimation Ink ( 4 colors, each125ml) | eBay

These are not expired inks, I have them for my old re-order art and then new stuff I use inks that I "went off the reservation" for.

As I "port" my old art for color I will be 100% Sawgrass free.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Riderz Ready said:


> This is like telling someone to not sell Mercedes because they cost $75K and instead sell Camrys becuase they are cheap and reliable.
> 
> Every market has their niche. If he wants to sell cheap t-shirts do vinyl. If he wants to attack the high end market go dye sub. The most important thing is for him to identify the market he can most successfully penetrate than decide on printing method and products to offer.


i am the voice of experience. after 5 years with an epson 1280 and thousands in ink spent and on my 4th printer at $250 each i can say dyesub is a bust. 

why? 

shirt blanks cost between 6 and 8 bux plus shipping. and they are not cotton so nobody wants them.
sports shirts are even more and a small format printer cannot print a large enough field to do them
mugs are heavy and expensive and cheaply made
other products are just as cheap
the ink is enormously expensive, $155 for 110ml for the 1280 and double that for the ricoh.
we only keep it because we are full service and can absorb the lost leader on it. otherwise i would never recommend anyone to get into small format printing for dyesub. 

now, our vinyl cutter only cost $400 and we do 50 to 75 yards of apparel vinyl every week. 

on top of that we can do banners, window graphics, decals and rhinestones. we can take a $2 shirt and add 50c in rhinestones and sell it for $35. we cannot do that with dyesub. 

in our book rhinestones are the Mercedes and dyesub is the camry.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

binki said:


> i am the voice of experience. after 5 years with an epson 1280 and thousands in ink spent and on my 4th printer at $250 each i can say dyesub is a bust.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I should point out that 1280's are no longer made, WF1100 are $100 - $129 if you catch one frequently on sale.

Inks for the WF1100 (if you go the Sawgrass route) are available for $70 125 mL, cheaper if you "go off the reservation" and avoid Sawgrass stuff.

ArTainium UV+ 125ml Bulk Sublimation Ink - CYAN | eBay

Not everyone is my situation, but I have zero overhead, and live in a large city where I don't have to pay for shipping, 90% of my substrates are available locally.

4 colors are the only way to go, I suspect since you were using a 1280 that is a source of a lot of your problems, or if using other >4 color printers like the 1400. 4 printers in 5 years? Dude, lose the 1280!!! 

I do my stuff in batches and usually make enough profit on product to pay for a WF1100 or 2 just in one "batch". But my WF1100 has lasted 2 years, it is very reliable, and if you search the threads here very very few WF1100's having issues, and not dying like the Ricohs.

I have been sublimating since around 1991, always have made money. 

With Sawgrass out of the Epson desktop picture in 3 years the ink cost situation will go away. 

I have been using Cactus mugs and they are great quality, mousepads, a lot of Unisub stuff is decent too. My biggest money maker and sales volume are tiles.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

binki said:


> i am the voice of experience. after 5 years with an epson 1280 and thousands in ink spent and on my 4th printer at $250 each i can say dyesub is a bust.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually you are the voice of failure and a great example of what not to do in dye sub. Just because you are a bust does not mean the dye sub market is a bust. The t-shirt market is flooded with people like you. There are literally 1000's of people/companies fighting for the same old t-shirt business whether it be vinyl, DTG, screen, dye sub, etc. It is pointless to take a high end product like dye sub and compare it with the bottom feeders of vinyl. They are not in the same league and not sold to the same market. Anyone who thinks the t-shirt market is a good market to start a business is in for a rude awakening whether it is dye sub, vinyl, DTG, screen printing etc. 

With dye sub you create art that can be applied to may things. It is a high end product that should have a high end price. You sell stickers (vinyl) placed on shirts to people who want cheap products. Each technology has it's place. I would no more sell cheap shirts with stickers on them than you would high end custom apparel.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

I spoke to a company today that offers a epson 1100 with the cis ink for $379 and 100ml refill bottles are $28. Why is this so much cheaper then what you guys are saying?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

I don't see where dyesub is high end and vinyl is low end. Consider a sports uniform (1 pc) at $55 decorated at a 65% margin. 

What are the high end dyesub products you are talking about with a small format printer? walmart sells dyesub coffee mugs with photos for 10 bux. walgreens sells them for $24 (not a bad markup). 

we just don't have the market here for that. 

you also completely ignore the rhinestones which the vinyl cutter can do and the dyesub printer cannot do. rhinestones don't get old and they don't clog print heads. 

for someone doing daily dyesub work on a large format printer, good for them. i would go there if we had the work but we don't. we do sub out large format dyesub work and it is worth it but the small stuff, eh.. nothing there. 

back to the op..... he asked about getting into dyesub and i just offered a warning, stern yes, but a warning at that. he cannot say 'no one told me it would be like this' now can he. he has all sides, the good, the bad and the ugly. 

justing30 can make up his/her own mind over this. 

one more thing, when those that talk about going around 'the cartel' keep in mind the 'high temp ink' purchasers just got screwed because someone with a patent enforced it. it is funny how anyone else that comes here and wants to reprint copyright or trademark material is told they will get sued or go to jail but when a vendor rips a patent everyone is for it if it benefits them. right or wrong, sawgrass has a patent and they have every right to protect it. if you don't like it then don't buy it. 

as for us, we will keep the product because it brings in other business. making money with it as a stand alone product? naw.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Actually you are the voice of failure and a great example of what not to do in dye sub. Just because you are a bust does not mean the dye sub market is a bust. The t-shirt market is flooded with people like you. There are literally 1000's of people/companies fighting for the same old t-shirt business whether it be vinyl, DTG, screen, dye sub, etc. It is pointless to take a high end product like dye sub and compare it with the bottom feeders of vinyl. They are not in the same league and not sold to the same market. Anyone who thinks the t-shirt market is a good market to start a business is in for a rude awakening whether it is dye sub, vinyl, DTG, screen printing etc.
> 
> With dye sub you create art that can be applied to may things. It is a high end product that should have a high end price. You sell stickers (vinyl) placed on shirts to people who want cheap products. Each technology has it's place. I would no more sell cheap shirts with stickers on them than you would high end custom apparel.


Yes, customer perception of high quality is the name of the game. Learning Photoshop, Corel Draw, managing color, and acquiring good art skills means the difference between success and faliure with sublimation.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> I spoke to a company today that offers a epson 1100 with the cis ink for $379 and 100ml refill bottles are $28. Why is this so much cheaper then what you guys are saying?


Perhaps those $28 dollar inks are not sublimation, or they are not Sawgrass inks?


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

they are sublimation inks and they are the refill kind


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

binki said:


> I don't see where dyesub is high end and vinyl is low end. Consider a sports uniform (1 pc) at $55 decorated at a 65% margin.
> 
> What are the high end dyesub products you are talking about with a small format printer?
> 
> ...


I made some markup to your text above.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> they are sublimation inks and they are the refill kind


Nice price, make sure you get a profile with those or have the capabilty to make one or have one made.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

binki said:


> I don't see where dyesub is high end and vinyl is low end. Consider a sports uniform (1 pc) at $55 decorated at a 65% margin.
> 
> What are the high end dyesub products you are talking about with a small format printer? walmart sells dyesub coffee mugs with photos for 10 bux. walgreens sells them for $24 (not a bad markup).
> 
> ...


Your missing the point that vinyl bottom feeders do not compete in the same market as high end dye sub. You go after the Walgreen/Walmart customer where dye sub goes after the Nordstrom customer.

Your numbers even make little sense. In dye sub if you are only getting a 65% mark up on single sports jersey you are giving the product away. Qty 1 profit margin on a sports jersey in our market is 300% +. 

You are so off on rhinestones it is scary. Do you seriously think rhinestones only go with vinyl and cannot be done with dye sub? Google Noah G Pop - this is a guy who takes his art and transforms it into high end womens apparel. He does it by using dye sub and rhinestones. If one visits his site you should be able to understand the concept of dye sub being an art form. Visit his site and get back to me on the power of vinyl and rhinestones. He sells his womens shirts for $125.00+

We are going to start offering rhinestone options for our female riders starting in Jan 2012. Bottom line is there is nothing vinyl can do that dye sub cannot do except create a simple, cheap shirt you would see in Walmart.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

So you are buying a jersery for $25 and selling for $75? For $85 retail I can get a full custom dyesub on a 50% margin with no work on my part through ADV. 

We basically use the retail price for the jersey and charge from $14 to $27 for decoration depending on the number of colors and locations. That decorating price is about an 80% margin. 

btw, a 300% markup is about a 67% margin, so we are the same there.

how many $250 murals are sold a day? what is your margin on those?

Rhinestones with glitter vinyl sells very well here. We do hundreds of shirts a week between $16 and $35, many of them stock designs. Just a different market for us.

Again, just letting the OP know it isn't all roses in the dyesub space.


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

I have been printing dyesub for over 10 years. As someone mentioned it would probably be best to start out with an Epson C88 printer first with refillable carts & bulk ink. You don't have to print something everyday.
Just try to do a nozzle check a couple of times a week if you are not printing regularly.
I regularly print 1 x 3 plastic namebadges with full color logos & names for schools/colleges in my area for $6.99 ea + tax. Try doing that with vinyl.
As for profit, it all depends on your market & your markup.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

binki said:


> So you are buying a jersery for $25 and selling for $75? For $85 retail I can get a full custom dyesub on a 50% margin with no work on my part through ADV.
> 
> We basically use the retail price for the jersey and charge from $14 to $27 for decoration depending on the number of colors and locations. That decorating price is about an 80% margin.
> 
> ...


I sell about 5 - 6 murals a month. material markup (including a nice frame) is 350%, it's not huge business but they are very profitable. But I got a lot of other stuff going on. 

I also do gallery wraps and and other items like backlit sublimation glass tiles. Starting to do some larger unisub metals now. This is above and beyond single ceramic tiles, mugs, mousepads, tshirts.

I'm home based except for occasions I do events or set in weekend markets. I don't advertise and except for when I do an event, it's all word of mouth for my business.

If I had a shop with full overhead costs I could still sublimate and make money, but sublimation would just be another revenue resource and not the only one.

Some of my sublimation orders come from doing photo restorations.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

binki said:


> So you are buying a jersery for $25 and selling for $75? For $85 retail I can get a full custom dyesub on a 50% margin with no work on my part through ADV.
> 
> We basically use the retail price for the jersey and charge from $14 to $27 for decoration depending on the number of colors and locations. That decorating price is about an 80% margin.
> 
> ...


Your trolling in the dye sub forum is laughable were it not for the misinformation you spread. Do you troll embroidery, DTG, vinyl threads to warn people of the issues involved in all of those markets are just concentrate on dye sub? When we look for advice in a new market we look for advice from people who suceed not those that fail as you have with dye sub. Do people really need advice on how to fail? Most can do that on their own. 

The decorating method one uses means little. There is a market for all of the above methods. What does matter is to have the ability to identify a niche market and your ability to successfully sell and market to that market. The day of being able to open a web site and sell shirts successfully are long gone regardless of the decorating method. 

Our advice - if you are looking to enter into the t-shirt market, regardless of the decorating method you plan to use, it would be less expensive and time consuming to take $1,000 and flush it down the toilet.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

dim116 said:


> I have been printing dyesub for over 10 years. As someone mentioned it would probably be best to start out with an Epson C88 printer first with refillable carts & bulk ink. You don't have to print something everyday.
> Just try to do a nozzle check a couple of times a week if you are not printing regularly.
> I regularly print 1 x 3 plastic namebadges with full color logos & names for schools/colleges in my area for $6.99 ea + tax. Try doing that with vinyl.
> As for profit, it all depends on your market & your markup.


Great example Larry.

Gang up 8 on a page, maybe a nickel or dime worth of ink per item (Sawgrass prices), 20 cents worth of paper, maybe a buck a substrate, press all at once. Quick dwell. Doesn't get better than that. $ per hour is great that way.

On occasion I do Unisub ID tags and keytags like that ... sweet business, all on a lowly Epson desktop


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

See I'm confused. If I can buy a epson 1100 with bulk ink for $400 and it will say print 500 pages. And refills are $30 per 100ml then it's like under a dollar per page for ink. Paper about $0.75. Say the substrate cost $8. Your in for only $10 and the item you could probably sell for at least $20-$25 

I want to be able to print photos on all different kinds of items for sports teams. Dye sub seems like it has the most flexibility or am I missing something.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> See I'm confused. If I can buy a epson 1100 with bulk ink for $400 and it will say print 500 pages. And refills are $30 per 100ml then it's like under a dollar per page for ink. Paper about $0.75. Say the substrate cost $8. Your in for only $10 and the item you could probably sell for at least $20-$25
> 
> I want to be able to print photos on all different kinds of items for sports teams. Dye sub seems like it has the most flexibility or am I missing something.


I'm confused too. 

You buy a printer. $129
You buy refillable carts for the printer. $20
You buy bulk sub inks for the printer $30 per color x 5 = $150 (assuming your quoted price) WF1100 has 3 colors + 2 black carts or CMYKK.
You buy a pack of 100 sheets sub paper $20

$319 and you're printing, not counting substrate cost.

Assuming your "refill" inks are the same mL volume as your initial purchase ($150), then you pay $150 when you are almost out of inks and re-order.

Forget about cost per page or print at this point until you sort out what you are buying initially.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

justing30 said:


> See I'm confused. If I can buy a epson 1100 with bulk ink for $400 and it will say print 500 pages. And refills are $30 per 100ml then it's like under a dollar per page for ink. Paper about $0.75. Say the substrate cost $8. Your in for only $10 and the item you could probably sell for at least $20-$25
> 
> I want to be able to print photos on all different kinds of items for sports teams. Dye sub seems like it has the most flexibility or am I missing something.


You won't get the Espon 1100 with a bulk ink (sublimation) for $400. Sublimation ink refills are not $30/100 ml unless you have a really good connection in China somewhere. If so, please share. You will also have to buy the refills for 5 cartridges. I think you are confusing regular pigment ink with sublimation ink. They are two totally different things.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

What I found is the ink for sublimation from a pretty big company. Even on amazon you can buy 4 bottles for $80 of sublimation ink 100ml for an epson. So what am I missing here?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> What I found is the ink for sublimation from a pretty big company. Even on amazon you can buy 4 bottles for $80 of sublimation ink 100ml for an epson. So what am I missing here?


Then how did you come up with the printer at $400 and why mention refill inks until you need them?


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

Because I'm trying to figure out why you guys are talking that ink and stuff os do expensive


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> Because I'm trying to figure out why you guys are talking that ink and stuff os do expensive


Sublimation inks in the US are held hostage by a company called Sawgrass that abuses a patent they hold. Sawgrass (Sublijet or Artanium brands) inks are expensive.

Some sell sublimation inks anyway knowing they could risk a patent infringment lawsuit from Sawgrass. These inks are not expensive but you need ...

1. An ICC profile or your colors will be gory.
2. Support

and they may or may not be good quality.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

the ink is expensive, besides that we just sold yet another $1000+ job with vinyl and we just bit another one at $1800. 

that is why we love our vinyl cutter.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

Im going to target sports teams mostly. I want to be able to do action shots of the kids, and be able to print like their picture on mugs, tshirts, keychains, anything. And do flags with like team logo and all that stuff. So dye sub is prob the only way to go for photos onto stuff correct? And look into vinyl for doing like flags and other stuff like that.


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## coolbeansgifts (May 24, 2010)

Id like to see a link to the Sublimation ink refills ya found ,at such a low cost. I don't think I would be buying any though. 

I really like the comment on the post about flushing a $1000 down the toilet. A year or so ago ,..I would have had one happy plumer.

We have a brick and mortal store and my wife thought it would be a great to have an example of almost everything offered in sublimation. I guess she tought our niche was everything. Items for sublimation is kinda like all the stuff they sell for fishing that catch the fisherman not fish.

Good advice start small, find a niche.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> Im going to target sports teams mostly. I want to be able to do action shots of the kids, and be able to print like their picture on mugs, tshirts, keychains, anything. And do flags with like team logo and all that stuff. So dye sub is prob the only way to go for photos onto stuff correct? And look into vinyl for doing like flags and other stuff like that.


Dye sub on hardgoods provides the best photo quality, hands down, but these items must be polymer coated or made from a polymer. 

Tshirts can be made from dye sub but for best results you need a 100% poly shirts, they cost usually at min for a white shirt about 5 bucks.

"Photo" Tshirts can also be made with inkjet pigment inks and a heat transfer polymer paper. These can be put on less expensive 50/50 or 100% pre-shrunk tshirts.

Sublimation on tshirts is the best looking and feeling process, but at a cost. No background window from a polymer heat transfer paper. Only the sublimation dye transfers, not any heat transfer polymer "carrier".

White vinyl can be printed but you need a special solvent or eco-solvent ink jet printer, then you have to cut to the shape you want .... $$$$. 

Otherwise the vinyl is whatever the color the vinyl is when you cut and apply it.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

http://www.amazon.com/Gercutter-Sub...11RC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1321060327&sr=8-3


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Gercutter-Sub...11RC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1321060327&sr=8-3


 
Yes, I have seen those, several other vendors there too. See my other post about an ICC profile, do they offer one? Otherwise you need to have one made. It's insane to sublimate without one. You will not be able to do photos without one.


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## coolbeansgifts (May 24, 2010)

Thanks for posting the link....hmm I got to study on this one.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

If you search amazon their are a bunch more companies, but this one was one of the ones with the highest rated stars. Thanks for all the advice on here!


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I went to Gercutter's website.. it takes forever to load and I didn't see anything there for the color profiles. I'll have to dig further and maybe send them off an inquiry.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

justing30 said:


> If you search amazon their are a bunch more companies, but this one was one of the ones with the highest rated stars. Thanks for all the advice on here!


This company mentions profiles in their ad. I have no idea if the ink is any good or not though.

Sublimation Ink set of 5 Colors 4oz (Ep. 1100) YMCKK: ICC Profile Available | eBay


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

binki said:


> we just don't have the market here for that.
> 
> we do sub out large format dyesub work


So because you don't have market for sub in your area. What does that mean to Justin? Did you ask his location to find out if dye sub would be profitable for him? 


@justin 

This is what comes with the Epson WF 1100 as far as ink:

Epson WorkForce 1100 wide-format ink jet printer
Two 68 High-capacity Black Ink cartridges (T068120)
One 68 High-capacity Cyan Ink cartridge (T068220)
One 68 High-capacity Magenta Ink cartridge (T068320)
One 68 High-capacity Yellow Ink cartridge (T068420)

Use Code 68 to find ink carts

Epson WF 1100

Office Max/Comp USA $129.00
Epson $179.99 (out of stock-free shipping)

Epson $100.00 (refurbished and in stock) 
Epson WorkForce 1100 Wide-format Printer - Refurbished, Overview - Product Information - Epson America, Inc.

B&H $106.95 (on sale)
Epson WorkForce 1100 Wide Format Printer C11CA58201 B&H Photo

Epson C+88
Comp USA $89.99
CompUSA.com | C11C617121 | Epson C88+ Stylus Color Inkjet Printer


Here are the Sawgrass Ink Link, 
Sawgrass Technologies - Digital Printing Inks
Sublimatable Products, Allover T-Shirt Printing, Heat Transfer Production Systems, Sublimation Inks, Heat Press Machines - Order Online! - DyeTrans.com

but its your choice on what you want to use for ink. Google Search (among the forum) for Gercutter (available @ Amazon) I have heard good recommendations for their inks


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## bighook1 (May 16, 2007)

CobraInks.com has the 1100 plus ink system for less than 400.00 We bought ours from them & it has worked out wonderful...Mike


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks fatcat and big!


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> White vinyl can be printed but you need a special solvent or eco-solvent ink jet printer


This isn't 100% accurate. Papillio offers white vinyl able to be printed with pigment, and I'm in the process of checking out aqueous vinyl options from MacTac & Sihl. This is not t-shirt vinyl. Indoor use vinyl -- or laminate it and use it outdoors. I've seen some incredible photos of products using a wf1100, aqueous vinyl, frog juice, and in some instances some Oracle 651 - personalized signs, banners with photos, auto & window graphics, full color tiles, etc. I'm looking forward to learning more about this process.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

American logoZ said:


> This isn't 100% accurate. Papillio offers white vinyl able to be printed with pigment, and I'm in the process of checking out aqueous vinyl options from MacTac & Sihl. This is not t-shirt vinyl. Indoor use vinyl -- or laminate it and use it outdoors. I've seen some incredible photos of products using a wf1100, aqueous vinyl, frog juice, and in some instances some Oracle 651 - personalized signs, banners with photos, auto & window graphics, full color tiles, etc. I'm looking forward to learning more about this process.


Yes, now that you mention it recall those before, I don't do vinyl, so I was thinking more of the mainstream stuff. I recall some stuff called Color JET 3 that might be similar to the Papillio printable vinyl. Others had mentioned to me it isn't durable enough washing, and heavy, so I didn't pursue.

I can't see putting vinyl on tiles though, it's still basically a sticker. Clear water slide decals can be put on tiles as well, but still a sticker. Mugs, tiles, personal ID tags and such, I think I'll stick with sublimation. But I have had some interest in using vinyl for sandcarving, it's on "my list".

I'll have to look into aqueous vinyl, what is it's main application?


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I just bought 10 sheets of the aqueous vinyl from papilio to learn on. I got mine for bumper stickers. I also got their aerosol UV protection laminate coating to make them last longer. Now I have to open the wf1100 box and get it hooked up to the computer so I can get started on it.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't remember where, but I saw photos a while back of a super cool product being sold for children's sports-themed rooms. I can't remember whether it was a banner or indoor sign or wall art...? Using cut vinyl, the creator made a scoreboard-looking graphic and he incorporated a sports photo of the young star. It was amazing looking -- but I didn't think it would be possible without an expensive printer so I didn't mark the thread or let my imagination run wild with all the possibilities one idea can bring. 

Parents and grandparents love items showing off their loved ones. You have to be creative with this stuff - there isn't a catalog of ready-made items waiting for you to add a picture to it. But since you aren't limited to coated items, the sky is the limit, not everyone is doing what you're doing, and there may be more room for profit.

Sorry for hijacking the thread for a minute. Just thought I'd toss this out. There are pigment options that I wish I'd more thoroughly explored before immediately jumping into dye sub as the "only" way to do full-color.


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## justing30 (Sep 25, 2008)

can you do photos with pigment? What can you print on with pigment besides like t-shirts, modulates etc?


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

You can do photos with pigment and you can put those photos on heat transfer paper and press them onto shirts if you want to. For an even bigger expanse of things that you can do with a printer and press check out sublimation. You would need special ink and paper and substrates but the options are immense. Take a cyber journey over to conde.com and check out the sublimation section. Warning though: it is addictive. Once you see what you can do with sublimation, you will never get the same satisfaction from heat transfers.


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