# The Best Heat Transfer Vinyl you've tried?



## dAi

*The Best Heat Applied Vinyl you've tried? 2010*

I've been using *thermoflex plus* and the only thing I hate about it is the price and the width size, they only got'em in 15" wide (and No i don't wanna rotate it and make it 'bout the same) 

I've tried *Spectra Cut II* _Imprintables_ and the two things I don't like about it is that it's super hard to weed and the backing is not sticky, oh and is peel cold...

anyone knows a realy good vinyl transfer that is like thermoflex plus but 19" x 5yds, less expensive and one you can multi layer color over the other?

I pay for thermoflex plus $50 for 15x5yds shipping included

I heard if you use woven teflon sheets it gives a screen print end feel to the design and Kraft paper teflon is for the thin feel and glossy look

is this true?


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## theflowerboxx

Multicut from www.jotopaper.com is exactly like thermoflex plus except it is 19" wide. Throw that SCII in the trash or you will have customers bringing stuff back to you when it falls off.


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## dAi

Okay, has customers back to you with that issue, how long have you used it before? Sometimes is the Heat Press and not the vinyl

is multicut ultra ur talking about, do they sell it bigger than 15"?


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## American logoZ

I've not had very good luck with imprintables vinyl. Fell off my daughter's sweatshirt. Basketball team brought jerseys back when the vinyl fell off. I don't have enough experience to blame it on the vinyl - but that's my experience with it.

Joto's multicut has been a completely different experience. It's thinner, bonds wonderfully, and has a great feel. The first time I weeded it I was amazed by the difference. I had only used imprintables products before that - but the difference in my experiences were night and day. Joto's customer service is fantastic. David calls on a regular basis - and I'm a very small potatoes operation.

I understand that heatpressvinyl.com has a great product and it comes in many different widths. I haven't tried it yet.


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## American logoZ

Forgot to mention -- my equipment is new. press is a Maxx, no problems except user error that I know of so far. And I've had limited but good luck with Coastal's vinyl (siser easyweed).


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## dAi

American logoZ said:


> Forgot to mention -- my equipment is new. press is a Maxx, no problems except user error that I know of so far. And I've had limited but good luck with Coastal's vinyl (siser easyweed).


which one did you tried in imprintables warehouse?

Max is okay, I prefer Heat press that are swingers


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## Nvr2Old

American logoZ said:


> Forgot to mention -- my equipment is new. press is a Maxx, no problems except user error that I know of so far. And I've had limited but good luck with Coastal's vinyl (siser easyweed).


Siser easyweed is the same product as Imprintables eco-film, Spectra-cut II is the one that most people have trouble with.


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## theflowerboxx

dAi said:


> Okay, has customers back to you with that issue, how long have you used it before? Sometimes is the Heat Press and not the vinyl
> 
> is multicut ultra ur talking about, do they sell it bigger than 15"?


 Just do a search on here for Spectra Cut II and see what kind of problems people had. That's all I am going to say or I will get in trouble for "bad mouthing" a sponsor on here. I've been down that road.


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## dAi

theflowerboxx said:


> Just do a search on here for Spectra Cut II and see what kind of problems people had. That's all I am going to say or I will get in trouble for "bad mouthing" a sponsor on here. I've been down that road.


so why are you posting reviews if you haven't tried it yourself?

i dont understand


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## theflowerboxx

If you would do a search you will see who had the biggest problem with it. I've used just about every heatpres vinyl on the market, I know what works and what doesn't.


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## dAi

oh okay, im sorry if i sounded offensive btw...


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## rrron

check out JSI Sign Systems - Sign Making and Digital Printing Equipment, Software, Supplies and Technical Support. the have good prices on thermo flex plus $35.00 plus shipping from atlanta.


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## Nvr2Old

Just ordered 10 yds of t-shirt transfer vinyl from Stahls' ID.
Comes in 20" rolls. I could post results if anybody is interested.


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## Rodney

theflowerboxx said:


> ...or I will get in trouble for "bad mouthing" a sponsor on here.


Just to clarify, there are no problems when posting honest opinions of companies here. 

Sponsors or not, having truthful opinions posted is one of the things that make the forums helpful. If you'll look around the forums, you'll see positive and negative posts about all types of companies, many of them that are sponsors here.

There was much more to what you were doing than that and I explained that to you at the time.


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## hal

I've used Stahl's for years. If you are using it for athlete uniforms (not nylon) then their Thermo Film is great!
You have only a 8 sec press time and you can peal it hot. Really saves on production time. They have several other films also. I love this company!!!!


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## dAi

hal said:


> I've used Stahl's for years. If you are using it for athlete uniforms (not nylon) then their Thermo Film is great!
> You have only a 8 sec press time and you can peal it hot. Really saves on production time. They have several other films also. I love this company!!!!


hey i tried thermofilm and you can't use the iron on it because it will leave small burnt hole spots

try it, watch it look like cigarette's stem or w/e u call it fell on it and burnt small spots

that sux because sometimes the shirts get real wrinkle and so the film the leave crease marks like lines and you want to iron it some times but with thermofilm i guess you have to be careful and flip the shirt or something


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## skdave

I just tried a new vinyl from Schillers in St.Louis
54" wide rolls 50 feet long. $1.30 a square foot.
Most of the time I don't use tranfer tape.
Prints on the roland real nice. VERY soft touch!
Quick tranfer 15 seconds and cold peel.


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## theflowerboxx

skdave said:


> I just tried a new vinyl from Schillers in St.Louis
> 54" wide rolls 50 feet long. $1.30 a square foot.
> Most of the time I don't use tranfer tape.
> Prints on the roland real nice. VERY soft touch!
> Quick tranfer 15 seconds and cold peel.


 Would you mind sending me a small sample. I will pay you for it. I have not been able to find any printable heatpress vinyl that I like.


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## Nvr2Old

hal said:


> I've used Stahl's for years. If you are using it for athlete uniforms (not nylon) then their Thermo Film is great!
> You have only a 8 sec press time and you can peal it hot. Really saves on production time. They have several other films also. I love this company!!!!


I'm trying their Super Film for cotton t-shirts, I like that it's available in 20" rolls.


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## skdave

theflowerboxx said:


> Would you mind sending me a small sample. I will pay you for it. I have not been able to find any printable heatpress vinyl that I like.


Email me your address and 
i will have the salesmen send you a large section.
[email protected]


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## theflowerboxx

email sent, thanks a million.


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## Stapozi Creation

How costly is vinyl?


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## KathleenS

*Re: The Best Heat Applied Vinyl you've tried? 2010*

Siser now offers Easyweed white & black in 19.5" X 25 & 50 yards lengths. Easyweed is a hot peel product that is very user friendy from start to finish.


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## JoshEllsworth

Stapozi Creation said:


> How costly is vinyl?


Depending on the quantity ordered and the type it usually breaks down to about 1 - 2 cents per square inch. 

A common 5 yard roll ranges from $25-45.00 depending on the width (usually 15" or 20") and supplier.


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## hal

I've consistently used Stahl's since the 80's. I purchased a used cutter a year ago which came with a lot of Thermoflex material. I hate the stuff! Although it has a nice hand, it's a pain to weed and the press time is twice what the Stahl's Thermofilm. Again, I think Thermo Film is the best if you are printing large production runs. No, it doesn't work well with irons, but what professional printer is using irons.


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## scuba_steve2699

We use Eco film for most projects. It is thin, easy to work with, the mylar is sticky so if you make a mistake, just put it back on, and it feels great on the shirts!


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## Nick Horvath

*Re: The Best Heat Applied Vinyl you've tried? 2010*



dAi said:


> I heard if you use woven teflon sheets it gives a screen print end feel to the design and Kraft paper teflon is for the thin feel and glossy look
> 
> is this true?


Teflon provides a shiny/glossy appearance, and Kraft Paper provides a dull/matte appearance when used on films. 

Also it is important to note that different types of film will exhibit different degrees of these effects.


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## cookemb

We used to use Stahls Thermofilm and it worked fine. Since I work full time and the wife runs the store, I'm always looking to make things easier for her in order to save her time and money. We are now using Sports Film from Twill USA and we like it much better. It weeds easier and is less expensive. A 5 yard roll 18" wide is $26.85 + shipping. We use the same application guidelines as thermofilm. Hope this helps.


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## leapoffaith

This is why I love this forum. I am at the point right now where I am looking for a supplier of heatpress vinyl. 

I sent an email to Coastal and asked if they would be willing to send me some samples. I had a box delivered by FedEx from them promptly. 

I have sent two emails to Imprintables asking the for the same thing. I picked them because I was getting ready to order some teflon sheets, pillows, tape stuff from them. No response from Imprintables. 

I was thinking that I should find two suppliers for heat press material. I will use Coastal as one and will pick my other from the posts above. 

I have found so much helpful information here in setting up this new business. 

Thanks for starting this thread.


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## gfcshirts

Could you tell us what vinyl:thermo-grip, econ you bought and how it worked out? with the Stahls, thanks


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## cookemb

We used the ThermoFilm when we used Stahls as a supplier. We liked it because it was hot peel. The economy stuf is cheaper and works OK but it takes longer to apply since it's cold peel.


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## miktoxic

American logoZ said:


> I've not had very good luck with imprintables vinyl. Fell off my daughter's sweatshirt. Basketball team brought jerseys back when the vinyl fell off. I don't have enough experience to blame it on the vinyl - but that's my experience with it.


wow, i don't get this at all. i bought my roland from imprintables and have only used vinyl from them specifically the eco-film. i've never had a problem with anything falling off of the garment etc. sounds like your heat press is not putting out enough heat or you're not applying enough pressure. i've got an old geo knight 14 x 16 clamsheel press, no problems. i do go above the suggested temp by a couple of degrees and press time by a couple of seconds, but man it peels like butter and will outlast the life of your garment.


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## jennjenn97

I have had no issues with Spectra Cut II. I disagree with any issues. Now Thermoflex problems!! so I do believe that is mostly up to your press. The press and the pressure has to be correct. hope this helps.


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## BYounkinDesign

Anyone heard of the Accuflex Heat Transfer Vinyl? Or tried it?


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## lben

I just got some vinyl from Ryonet called vyroll. It has a sticky film so it stays where you put it and you can barely feel it on the fabric. I just did some hoodies with it. I also did layering with it.


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## rrron

JSI Sign Supply in Atlanta sells Thermo Flex Plus for $35 per roll. They also sell a product called JSIHT which is 19.6" wide x 5 yards for $35. Check them out at www.jsisign.com.


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## miktoxic

nice job loretta. who knows what producer makes vyroll. it's probably the same thing as eco-film from imprintables (it has the same sticky film backing as well).

the only problem i have with vinyl is the shine of the material compared to screnn printing. it's great if that's the look you are going for, but if not there's nothing you can do about it. even using kraft paper can make it look and feel like screen printing.


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## royster13

Vyroll is a Siser product.....


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## lben

I have some of the econofilm from Stahls and that feels really thick on fabric.


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## royster13

Loretta that is almost funny.....If you read over many threads on this forum about Spectra Eco Film, one of the complaints that has been made a few times is that is too thin....


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## lben

I guess I just got used to the way sublimation felt on a shirt. JPSS transfers felt like a plastic sheet on the material. I just started doing vinyl about a month ago. I started with the stahls. Not only is it nearly impossible for me to see if it cut or not, but it felt really thick on the fabric. When I ran out I bought some of the vyroll from Ryonet and almost fell over when I found out how it felt. It was actually soft and pliable. The only thing I don't like about it is that it was a bear to weed. And there was no way to weed it and then save it for later use. But at least I could see that my blade had actually cut through the vinyl.


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## royster13

Hmm.....As far as I know EcoFilm is 2mils thick and Siser is 3.7mils thick so not sure why they feel so different....


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## lben

I have econofilm from stahls, not eco film from imprintables.... I don't know if it's the same stuff or not. I do know that there is a huge difference in the thickness of the vinyl from both companies. vyroll is very thin, has a very soft barely noticable feel, and is lighter weight than the econofilm was. I guess it's like the difference between water based ink and plastisol ink.


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## HTW

ThermoFlex also carries 20"


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## ayukish

lben said:


> I have econofilm from stahls, not eco film from imprintables.... I don't know if it's the same stuff or not. I do know that there is a huge difference in the thickness of the vinyl from both companies. vyroll is very thin, has a very soft barely noticable feel, and is lighter weight than the econofilm was. I guess it's like the difference between water based ink and plastisol ink.


Eco-Film and Econofilm are different materials. Spectra Eco-Film is the PU based, sticky back, hot peel product, Econofilm is a cold peel, thicker product.


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## royster13

Adam I tried to find specifications on your website and I could not.....Are they there?....Or am I looking in the wrong place?...


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## ayukish

Royce,

If you're looking for the mil and some other things, we don't put that on the site. We never really had requests for it. 

Here's the link to the Eco-Film on the site. If anything isn't on there that you're looking for, email me and i'll get the info for you.

Imprintables Warehouse | SPECTRA® Eco-Film


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## royster13

Well now that folks are talking about different thicknesses of material, I just wanted to be able to compare....I have used some EcoFilm and I like it.....By the way, Stahls shows thicknesses of their materials on their website.....


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## HazzCoDaisy

You couldn't pry the Thermoflex from my cold dead hands.


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## skerry1

I don't want to make another thread about this. I'm interested in a thin, easy to weed, hot peel, vinyl that's versatile enough that I could use it on a wide range of fabrics. Let me know what you guys recommend. 

Thanks


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## brice

Superfilm by Stahls.


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## scuba_steve2699

We now have thickness and other details on each of our materials listed on the website.


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## skerry1

brice said:


> Superfilm by Stahls.


Brice, I was looking at that. I thought it was cold peel though. I've heard you can do distressed looks and some other things with it. It just looked like it could be a little hard to work with though. Is that not the case?

Thanks


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## brice

I find it easier to work with than their new stuff. I haven't had many problems with it. I am migrating from Thermo-film to Superfilm and if I can dial in the new stuff, I'll use it instead (Premium Plus). IMHO it needs just a little more tack... The new stuff I mean.


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## cre8tivemyndz

I have used several brands of vinyl, but I love the versitility of SISER EasyWeed Extra. It's soft to the touch like screenprinting and it can even be applied to nylon, lycra/spandex and leather. It's only about .39 cents more than the EastWeed Regular. I use it on everything from Tees to Uniforms, to Jackets, To Bags.


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## morcamp

JayDee, you just saved me a ton of time! I'm just starting out, and _was_ looking for a versatile vinyl. If I get good at this RAYING::), my choice may change, but for now, I'll go with this.


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## calhtech

morcamp said:


> JayDee, you just saved me a ton of time! I'm just starting out, and _was_ looking for a versatile vinyl. If I get good at this RAYING::), my choice may change, but for now, I'll go with this.


I've just been at this a little over a year now, and I print tees 7 days a week. (after work M-F, and weekends) Thermoflex is probably my all around fav. Cuts and weeds nice, a little thicker hand but well worth the look (specialty-graphics.com). I recently started using Eco Film from Imprintables.com, very impressed. Cuts ok, weeds semi ok, but presses and feels great. Some forum subs say it is bout as close to screen printing as you can get. I agree wholeheartedly. I also tried the Endura Tex Flex from Signwarehouse. I had problems cutting (see cut lines), weeding (thin film breaks easily), no stick carrier is not forgiving making fixing "pull ups" a night mare. Being one of the thinnest films, it does however FEEL very nice and the film will stick to most surfaces, so if you ever want to print on nylon jerseys and such, this same film works for those as well. Also, of the 3 mentioned the Tex Flex is cold peel so figure that in to your production plans should you decide on this film. Good luck with your T-Shirt Adventures.

Richard Calhoun
CalhTech Interprises


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## BeeM 05

American logoZ said:


> I've not had very good luck with imprintables vinyl. Fell off my daughter's sweatshirt. Basketball team brought jerseys back when the vinyl fell off. I don't have enough experience to blame it on the vinyl - but that's my experience with it.


What material did you use? We normally do not have this issue with our vinyl.


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## ToughJourneyman

So after all this back and fourth, Who can lead us newbies to ward the best heat tranfer vinyl that provide a nice hand, durable and affordable. 

Your advice is truly appreciated.


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## bolinsspeedyts

I prefer Siser Easy Weed. Soft hand and durable. Customers think it's silk screen at first look.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using T-Shirt Forums


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## morcamp

I recently ordered Siser Easy Weed. It has the look of screenprinting. I should have increased the pressure on my heat press, but for a first-timer, the shirt turned out pretty good. 

I opened my package, which came two days after I ordered it, and to my surprise, Coastal is only 30 minutes away! I may get good at this t-shirt making stuff after all .


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## calhtech

morcamp said:


> I recently ordered Siser Easy Weed. It has the look of screenprinting. I should have increased the pressure on my heat press, but for a first-timer, the shirt turned out pretty good.
> 
> I opened my package, which came two days after I ordered it, and to my surprise, Coastal is only 30 minutes away! I may get good at this t-shirt making stuff after all .


You Hoo. Welcome to t-shirt making! I have owned and operated a computer business for nearly 23 years, but nothing brings me more enjoyment and satisfaction (other than my grandchildren) than making t-shirts. I have been at this a little over a year but have probably made 2000+ tee creations, (mostly for pay, some for fun. I did say I had grandchildren  I work at my day job about 8-9 hrs a day. I work on tees 5-6 hours a day 6-7 days a week. IT HURTS SO GOOD! I AM 54 WITH A BAD BACK! Good luck in your future tee making endeavors.


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## ToughJourneyman

bolinsspeedyts said:


> I prefer Siser Easy Weed. Soft hand and durable. Customers think it's silk screen at first look.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using T-Shirt Forums




Thank you Mark.


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## treadhead

I'm starting to like this SportFilm Lite from Stahls more and more.....


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## Olperez1

Can someone please recommend a good quality PRINT vinyl with a thin/soft feel after heat pressing to a shirt/apparel? I know Thermoflex and Easyweed, but those aren't printable vinyl (correct me if i'm wrong, since I'm new to this too). I wanted to know a good printable vinyl, print multicolor design graphics on it, then heat press but still have that soft feel, not the thick, unbendable vinyl that doesn't breath.

Thanks guys!


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## royster13

Does not exist.......


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## Olperez1

Hi Royce, Anything close to it that you can recommend that you like and constantly use?


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## royster13

I do not sell products decorated this way because I have never found a product that does not feel like a "big blob" once it is on a shirt.......


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## Jrnyc789

i have been using easyweed and like it but i have to order it and takes a few days to get anyone know of a place i can pick up from on long island?. i have also used eco-film and liked it.


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## tammygraphics

Has anyone used digi cut from Coastal? I've asked them to send me a sample.

I've used fashion film from Stahls and really liked it... I prefer Thermoflex over Easy weed because Easy Weed feels thicker and more like plastic to me. I've also received some complaints on Easy Weed for cracking issues (white). But I like dealing with Coastal because I receive my materials the next day. Plus they have sticker paper, tattoo paper and transfer papers.


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## miktoxic

royster13 said:


> I do not sell products decorated this way because I have never found a product that does not feel like a "big blob" once it is on a shirt.......


i agree.

BUT i found it necessary to offer a client (mostly friends) small qty one color jobs. mostly gimmick shirts with some dumb saying on it. the minimums are too small to warrant coating and burning a screen. in the case i do use it, i use ecofilm from imprintables. i've tried the siserweed but it annoys me that it's not attached to a cardboard roll.

if had a retail store front i'm sure the use of vinyl and my versacamm would triple considering the walk-in small gift customer.


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## calhtech

miktoxic said:


> i agree.
> 
> BUT i found it necessary to offer a client (mostly friends) small qty one color jobs. mostly gimmick shirts with some dumb saying on it. the minimums are too small to warrant coating and burning a screen. in the case i do use it, i use ecofilm from imprintables. i've tried the siserweed but it annoys me that it's not attached to a cardboard roll.
> 
> if had a retail store front i'm sure the use of vinyl and my versacamm would triple considering the walk-in small gift customer.


I user Siser Easy Weed and its always on a roll. I guess it depends on where you get it from. I never order less than 15' and it's always on a cardboard roll. I get mine from Specialty-Graphics.com

CalhTech>


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## splathead

Yeah, Siser is on a roll when I order too. Tim are you only ordering a few feet at a time?


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## binki

*Re: The Best Heat Applied Vinyl you've tried? 2010*

We buy it 50 yards at a time so it is on a roll


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## miktoxic

no it was my first time ordering it from ryonet because i was ordering some silkscreening supplies and needed a 15" x 5 yd. roll, like i usually buy from imprintables.

when i buy ecofil from imprintables it comes in a shipping box with plastic around the roll which is attached to a cardboard roll.

the siser i bought from ryonet came in a cardboard roll but upon opening it, it was just loosely rolled up with a rubber band around it, not attached to anything.

felt like working with a jellyfish.


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## calhtech

miktoxic said:


> no it was my first time ordering it from ryonet because i was ordering some silkscreening supplies and needed a 15" x 5 yd. roll, like i usually buy from imprintables.
> 
> when i buy ecofil from imprintables it comes in a shipping box with plastic around the roll which is attached to a cardboard roll.
> 
> the siser i bought from ryonet came in a cardboard roll but upon opening it, it was just loosely rolled up with a rubber band around it, not attached to anything.
> 
> felt like working with a jellyfish.


Yea uh no, I NEVER got Siser that way before ever. That's strange!
I am pretty sure that they are cutting from a master roll (at least at Specialty-Graphics.com anyways) because every now and again, they will PIECE the roll together. IE If I order 15yds, they sometimes will put a 12 and 4. They usually add a yard for the cut.

calhTech


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## splathead

miktoxic said:


> the siser i bought from ryonet came in a cardboard roll but upon opening it, it was just loosely rolled up with a rubber band around it, not attached to anything.
> 
> felt like working with a jellyfish.


Guess they were being lazy. I can imagine the nightmare. I would have unrolled the whole thing and used masking tape to attach it to the roll.


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## miktoxic

splathead said:


> Guess they were being lazy. I can imagine the nightmare. I would have unrolled the whole thing and used masking tape to attach it to the roll.


that's what i ended up doing..

just so you know i got a private message from kathleen at siserpro and assured me that she will bring this up the next meeting they have with ryonet.

i mean i love ryonet's water-based ink products and other tools and great customer support and don't want to start a riff with them either.
like you said prob was at the end of the day and someone got lazy.


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## battman2036

I am currently using Fibron from Fellers. My only issue (after trying the easy weed and comparing it) is they do not stock all the colors at my local warehouse. Unfortunately this requires me to spend at least $100 to get the free shipping instead of picking it up. I'm paying $10.19/yard or $79/10 yards. For the current job I have I only need the single yard of hot pink and don't want to spend the added $10 for shipping. Looking for a similar product without the extra expense. Most of the posts in this thread are a bit older. I'd like to find an economical product which is not punched and 15" or wider.


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## KathleenS

calhtech said:


> Yea uh no, I NEVER got Siser that way before ever. That's strange!
> I am pretty sure that they are cutting from a master roll (at least at Specialty-Graphics.com anyways) because every now and again, they will PIECE the roll together. IE If I order 15yds, they sometimes will put a 12 and 4. They usually add a yard for the cut.
> 
> calhTech


We have addressed your concern with Ryonet & they have agreed to put five yards or more on a core. We thank you for your business.


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## lilpoundcake

Hey David,

Can I ask what kind of Vinyl for the heat press? I'm new to this and I want to make sure I get the best quality (trying to make children's tshirts). I don't want it peeling or cracking. I'm seeing a lot of siser easyweed and thermo flex. Would you recommend one over the other? Or do you have any other recommendations? Thanks in advance!


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## Jinshop

Can anyone tell me if they tried Oracle and if they are good or not?
Thanks.
Beginner here.


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## splathead

Jinshop said:


> Can anyone tell me if they tried Oracle and if they are good or not?
> Thanks.
> Beginner here.


Oracal is one of the best sign vinyls, but I don't think they make vinyl for garments.


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## banffunion

*Re: The Best Heat Applied Vinyl you've tried? 2010*

Oracal is great vinyl that you can use in your cutter to make stickers! But don't recall them offering tee vinyl.


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## kathyander25

I have tried thermoflex plus. I think that's the best heat transfer vinyl... and suitable for me...


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## typeflex

This is the vinyl thread I've been searching for. Hopefully now after reading this I can make a good decision on which vinyl renders the better product for the price.


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## ernti

*Re: The Best Heat Applied Vinyl you've tried? 2010*

I haven't seen any premium plus users, here.
Why?

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using T-Shirt Forums


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## Marjeni4353

I prefer using SISER EasyWeed Transfer Vinyl for my t-shirt business for a long time and quite satisfied with its output of actual design and color. 
Though, best isn't always best to all random people. I found this article on best heat transfer vinyl better written there!


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## horseflesh

I'm a hobbyist and don't have a pro's volume of output and customer feedback but Siser Easyweed has been solid for me. 

I have a few sheets of "Hexis Cutflex 100P" which I actually like a lot better. It weeds easily, seems to make a reliable transfer, and has a much softer hand than the Siser stuff. Strangely the instructions also said to apply it post-wash. Unfortunately no one seems to stock it any more.


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