# Transfer Vs DTG



## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

Hey Guys, 
I'm not sure, if this is the best place to post the question or not. Hopefully, I will not get my hand slapped! 
OK, here's what I'm wondering. With the high cost to set-up DTG, and with some of it's limitations. What is the next best solution for onesie, twosie prints. How close can you get with transfers, too DTG. Please be as specific as you can with cost, brands, supplier, etc.. Also mention the pros & cons of DTG vs transfers, considering quality, longevity, print area, cost of equipment / supplies, perceived value, feel / touch, etc.. 
Thanks


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

Did you search the forums for DTG posts? There are a ton of posts with tons of info. Might be better to search and then ask more specific questions after reading whats already here.
Just a thought.


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## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

Hey Fluid, I have researched this forum and many others. I've spent months reading through them. The problem is, DTG and transfers have advanced so much recently. Some of the prior post are outdated and maybe some opinions have changed. Also the forums generally have separate categories such as DTG, or Heat Transfers. They typically discuss each specifically. That is why I wasn't sure, which category to post my question in. There are fewer post for DTG Vs Transfers that take new product releases into consideration. I realize my post was a little broad (maybe real broad !!!!), but I thought why not ask for the moon in hopes for a good flash light.  I knew everyone had the option to post or not, and could choose to elaborate on the topic. If it helps, I'll be more specific. Assuming heat transfers are the best alternative too DTG, for onesie, twos orders. What specific transfer brand, and type would you use? What is the cost per, and who supplies it? Is there a specific brand of ink, printer, press or anything else, required to get as close to DTG as possible.
Thanks for the feedback!!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

ed2fun said:


> Hey Fluid, I have researched this forum and many others. I've spent months reading through them. The problem is, DTG and transfers have advanced so much recently. Some of the prior post are outdated and maybe some opinions have changed. Also the forums generally have separate categories such as DTG, or Heat Transfers. They typically discuss each specifically. That is why I wasn't sure, which category to post my question in. There are fewer post for DTG Vs Transfers that take new product releases into consideration. I realize my post was a little broad (maybe real broad !!!!), but I thought why not ask for the moon in hopes for a good flash light.  I knew everyone had the option to post or not, and could choose to elaborate on the topic. If it helps, I'll be more specific. Assuming heat transfers are the best alternative too DTG, for onesie, twos orders. What specific transfer brand, and type would you use? What is the cost per, and who supplies it? Is there a specific brand of ink, printer, press or anything else, required to get as close to DTG as possible.
> Thanks for the feedback!!


I would look into companies like Pro-World, Impulse Wear, Boo-Z and check out all the different stock plastisol transfer designs available for children apparel.

I would suggest looking into dye-sub but dont think you are going to find 100% poly onesies so that is out.

Last I would look into desktop printed transfers using an Epson printer, durabrite inks and transfer paper. I dont know how well they are going to hold up under intense washings that childrens clothes tend to demand. I dont much like the way they feel either but thats just me.

My favorite are the stock plastisol transfers.


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## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

Thanks moto,
I think I need to clarify a litttle more.  I want to print custom, full color, onesie, twosie orders on site, like you can with DTG (direct to garment). I would like the end product to be quality print, full color, durable, printed onsite, and feel (soft hand) like DTG, or as close as possible. I don't think plastisol's have the same feel as water based DTG, do they?  I know most of the DTG's use an inkjet type printer with water based inks. I'm told this process creates a "soft hand". I'm just wondering is it possible to get quick, soft, quality, and durable prints with a transfer, without spending big $$$$ for DTG. I've read alot about new transfers in the marketplace. I just don't know, which product is best to compete with DTG. Maybe it doesn't exist.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

ed2fun said:


> Thanks moto,
> I think I need to clarify a litttle more.  I want to print custom, full color, onesie, twosie orders on site, like you can with DTG (direct to garment). I would like the end product to be quality print, full color, durable, printed onsite, and feel (soft hand) like DTG, or as close as possible. I don't think plastisol's have the same feel as water based DTG, do they?  I know most of the DTG's use an inkjet type printer with water based inks. I'm told this process creates a "soft hand". I'm just wondering is it possible to get quick, soft, quality, and durable prints with a transfer, without spending big $$$$ for DTG. I've read alot about new transfers in the marketplace. I just don't know, which product is best to compete with DTG. Maybe it doesn't exist.


I understand your question. If you want print at home with little to no hand then DTG is your answer. The machines are expensive. 

Plastisol transfers feel like screenprinted shirts. Some have very little hand and some a bit heavier. I dont think the babies will mind at all. You can creat your designs and have them produced on transfer paper. You heatpress the designs onto the shirts as you need them and only the ink transfers as you peel off the paper.

Dye-Sub is as close to the feel of DTG as you are going to get. Basically no hand at all but is limited to 65/35 poly blends or higher. Like I stated earlier...dont think they are available in toddler type fashions but really am not sure about that. You print the transfers yourself and press them with a heatpress. Only the ink sublimates to the polyester molecules and you peel the paper off. Process isnt any good for dark apparel 

All the durabrite ink transfers I have touched have a hand probably due to the fact that the paper the design is printed on actually transfer to the apparel. Ther has been some talk about Dura Cotton papers and laser printers. Those threads you should probably check into.


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## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

moto, thanks again. I appreciate you sticking with me. I'm not sure, where I lost you on the toddler thing. My questions weren't specific to toddler apparel. 

quote:
Dye-Sub is as close to the feel of DTG as you are going to get. Basically no hand at all but is limited to 65/35 poly blends or higher. 

When you say "or higher", I think you mean poly, is that correct? If yes, that may not be a good option. Don't most peopkle want 100% cotton? Maybe I should keep an open mind though, what do your customers prefer (ie.. cotton/poly)?

The dura cotton sounds interesting. I've read a little about it. I will take your advise and review some of the post.

It sounds like we're narrowing down the options pretty fast , like a hurd of turtle's.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ed2fun said:


> I'm not sure, where I lost you on the toddler thing. My questions weren't specific to toddler apparel.


It got sidetracked with the phrase "onesie, twosie prints" as a onesie is a type of children's wear.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Solmu said:


> It got sidetracked with the phrase "onesie, twosie prints" as a onesie is a type of children's wear.


Thanks Lewis I saw that and automatically thought childrens gear. My fault...poster just wanted print on demand solutions. Dye- Sub is a solution with its no hand benefit and of course the drawbacks also mentioned.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

ed2fun said:


> moto, thanks again. I appreciate you sticking with me. I'm not sure, where I lost you on the toddler thing. My questions weren't specific to toddler apparel.
> 
> quote:
> Dye-Sub is as close to the feel of DTG as you are going to get. Basically no hand at all but is limited to 65/35 poly blends or higher.
> ...


Get a sample of Vapor Apparels 100% poly t-shirts...they are nice and will not dissapoint you. Manufacturers are making some very interesting strides in performance fabrics and wicking apparel...the Vapor gear is nice.

Yes when I say higher I meant the poly count. The higher the poly count the better for dye-sub printing.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

David (& others please), what's your take on the Color Laser Copier (CLC) machines specifically the fuser oil type? I was told it's the next best thing to DTG, or the best when it comes to heat transfers (besides plastisol transfers)? The papers are cheaper, the feel is smoother, and the colors brighter, but the machine is expensive. I already have an epson inkjet but now, I'm really thinking of getting the Canon CLC1110. Could this be the answer to ed2fun's question?


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## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

vctradingcubao said:


> David (& others please), what's your take on the Color Laser Copier (CLC) machines specifically the fuser oil type? I was told it's the next best thing to DTG, or the best when it comes to heat transfers (besides plastisol transfers)? The papers are cheaper, the feel is smoother, and the colors brighter, *but the machine is expensive*. I already have an epson inkjet but now, I'm really thinking of getting the Canon CLC1110. Could this be the answer to ed2fun's question?


Hey guys, thanks for keeping it going! It seems we're on track now. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't realize "Onsie" was a brand . Byron, how much is the Cannon printer you refer to as expensive? I'd really like to know more about this option. I'll do some research. If the CLC / Cannon is close to the cost of DTG, why would you choose it???????? 

quote; moto
Get a sample of Vapor Apparels 100% poly t-shirts...they are nice and will not dissapoint you. Manufacturers are making some very interesting strides in performance fabrics and wicking apparel...the Vapor gear is nice.

moto, I will check Vapor out, although I was trying to focus on 100 %cotton. I thought the majority of the tee market preferred 100% cotton. Do you see this changing to more poly / performance / wicking, as you suggest I look at? What is your market %'s for 100% poly vs 100% cotton.
If anyone else have an opinion, on the above matters, I welcome your comments!!!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

ed2fun said:


> Hey guys, thanks for keeping it going! It seems we're on track now. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't realize "Onsie" was a brand . Byron, how much is the Cannon printer you refer to as expensive? I'd really like to know more about this option. I'll do some research. If the CLC / Cannon is close to the cost of DTG, why would you choose it????????
> 
> quote; moto
> Get a sample of Vapor Apparels 100% poly t-shirts...they are nice and will not dissapoint you. Manufacturers are making some very interesting strides in performance fabrics and wicking apparel...the Vapor gear is nice.
> ...


I use only 100% cotton w/ plastisol transfers and heatpress vinyl. Like you I was uncomfortable with polyester anything...especially being in Tx. heat. I was and still am very interested in Dye-Sub printing but because of the polyester always stayed away. I was offered some sample Vapor gear that had been dye sub printed and the shirts are nice. I havent had a chance to wear them in extreme temps but since I work outside should be a good test. Athletes are wearing the new performance materials so that should give you and idea how far they have come. If you want zero hand this is it other than DTG and I havent gotten any samples of that system.

The desktop ink transfers that I have had my hands on were fairly much junk. I know some folks live and die by this method. I hope some have it mastered with new papers and the Craft Robo cutters. I sampled five different vendors last weekend selling these transfers and wasnt impressed. Thats just my opinion for sure...it is an inexpensive way to get started. The quality isnt going to be close to DTG or Dye-sub. I personally wouldnt buy and wont sell that type transfer until the quality can match plastisol transfers or screenprinting. I dont think it ever will to tell you the truth...I think DTG will get less expensive and there will be
an advance in dye-sub printable gear like Vapor.

For our business it is going to remain plastisol transfers and heatpress vinyl with an addition of Dye-Sub large format probably in early 2008.


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## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

Thanks moto,
By the way, you have an awesome site. Your graphics are impressive!
If I didn't mention it before, I'm not currently in the tee business. I'm just looking at the opportunity. I started looking into this, due to a DTG printer demo. I was impressed with it's capability, and looking for a new business venture. I started researching, and I've learned some of the pros and cons of DTG vs other printing. I know each method of printing has advantages. My business model, ideas focus on full color, custom graphics, onesie, twosie orders. I also know the market prefers soft hand. These concerns are what pushed me to DTG and pretty much ruled out screen printing. This left me with DTG vs transfers. The $ to setup DTG vs transfers, is where I'm struggling. I don't have any prior experience and very little knowledge about this industry. That's what makes it so hard to determine, if the benefits of DTG & expense are justified. I don't really want to put everything on hold, waiting for DTG to come down in $. I really want to move forward, but I don't want that desire to force a bad business decision either.
Thanks again for your input!!


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## TaylorTees (Nov 8, 2006)

Have you signed up for any of the industry magazines?? I hadn't and saw a post on here with links to sign up, they are free. When I did I chose to get information on other parts of the industry as well... and my mailbox has been FULL! =) To my suprise, I am getting samples and catalogs left and right, which is quite time consuming, but I have found some NEAT things I would have never seen before, I even received a sample DTG shirt in the mail, and was able to compare that to the transfer and vinyl process we currently use. Just thought I would pass the info along, I am not sure what post the links were in, but maybe someone will come along and help post it here for you.
Ambrelee


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## ed2fun (Dec 29, 2006)

Hey ttees,  I have considered that. I just didn't want to get the "full mailbox" syndrome. I wanted to narrow my focus a little, but I'm open to your suggestions. Please let me know which publications / organizations you suggest.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

ed2fun said:


> Byron, how much is the Cannon printer you refer to as expensive? I'd really like to know more about this option. I'll do some research. If the CLC / Cannon is close to the cost of DTG, why would you choose it????????


I got the idea on a post by Lucy (T-bot), she had great things to say about her Xerox CLC, but I think there's not so many members here using this type of machine, maybe because of the cost. Not really sure but I think the cost is about 20 to 40% less than most DTG's except for the Kornits which are much much costlier. I'm considering it because:

1) It's a CLC (fuser oil type), so it does many other things besides printing tshirts transfers. We could print (up to A3 size) great looking posters, business cards, postcards, flyers, brochures, multi-page manuals, etc. We have an embroidery shop in a mall now, so with the addition of just this one machine, the shop becomes a tshirt printing & digital desktop printing business.
2) In some areas, you could just lease the machine, so the cost would just be in a monthly basis.
3) You could ask for a plan wherein Canon will give free service and supply all the consumables, incuding inks (except papers). You already know your cost per copy.
4) I've read a lot in the forum about DTG having some problems, especially when printing on dark garments. Some say it's still a generation away from being problematic. It's still a new technology so I would wait a few years (& save some more) before getting one.
5) There's no distributor of DTG yet in my country so importing it is very expensive, and of course, there's no technical service.
6) This machine outputs great colors. Because we don't have a vinyl trasfers supplier here, I could imagine printing an A3 size opaque paper with just 1 color, then use a Roland cutter to cut the outline, weed & (using some more tricks) be able to heat transfer this to a shirt. It will be a single color with multiple small pieces, and I like it to have a "feel". With DTG, I will not be able to do this.

I hope Lucy and others with experience in this type of machine will come in and add some more.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> The quality isnt going to be close to DTG or Dye-sub. I personally wouldnt buy and wont sell that type transfer until the quality can match plastisol transfers or screenprinting. I dont think it ever will to tell you the truth...I think DTG will get less expensive and there will be
> an advance in dye-sub printable gear like Vapor.


Good point David, I agree 100% & will keep this in mind. As for me, I only thought about transfers because of these imagined situations:
1) I want to do the printing in our mall space, with the walk-in customers in mind, so I cant do screen printing.
2) Customers could come & bring their digital artwork (which they did at home), we will print it and heat transfer it to the shirt they choose
3) We could have a PC in the store to be used by the customer, so they can do their simple design there, (we could charge an add-on cost if there's many users, or make it free if not so many are using it)

For the 3 cases above, we could do using DTG. It's just that I think I still have to wait untill they improve it.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Another thing that has not been mentioned yet in this thread is the IronAll transfer paper. This paper is harder to work with than other quality paper (like the Transjet II/Magic Jet), but if a soft hand is important it's definitely worth checking out (very soft hand for transfer paper).


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## vividimprints (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm new to this forum and this is actually my first post/reply. The Vapor Apparel is nice, but one drawback is it is very thin. My business partner wore it to work and it was even a tan color, which we figured would not be as sheer, but you could see right through it still. We do sublimation and did fall in love with it, but the Hanes SofT Link are the best we've seen as far as this problem. For guys not a big deal, girls big deal for some. So we have looked into doing shirts for heat transfer and the IronAll is our direction for light color since it is supposed to have a no hand feel.

Hope this helps.

VividImprints.com


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