# Profit using a dtg



## Ujudgnme2 (Mar 28, 2006)

I like to know at what point do you see a profit from purchasing/using a DTG?

Are you making money to pay it off or back to yourself after the purchase?

Will the warranty expire before the DTG pays for itself?

Will the DTG stop working before it pays for itself?


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

That is a rather broad question.....

I have printed both low profit contract jobs using two different printers, as well as retail and for regular "walk through the door" customers.

It all depends on what your target profit per item is. If you shoot for a $5 net profit per garment, which is completely reasonable, then you can expect to pay off your printer very quickly depending on the amount of work you bring in. Let's say you can print 4,000 garments using a liter of each bottle of ink (I was at 6,000 prints when I had to replace my first bottles of R&H ink on my Flexi) at $5 net per garment... You're net profit will be $20,000 before you ever have to reorder ink. The best price I can give you is, KNOW the value of what you are printing and do not sell yourself short. Make your 3, 4 or $5 per garment NET and be happy. You will quickly see your profits growing.


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## KenS (Apr 27, 2007)

I dont have the amount of DTG business that Justin has. I only do light colored shirts. On the low side.... printed on white t's, I charge a minimum of $8. So that is $1 for the shirt and maybe $1 for ink. I run almost all of mine through on two passes to make the colors really bright. For photo shirts on white, I charge $15.

I just did 19 safety green shirts for a youth group. It had a small left chest design and a full back. I charged $12 each. I think the safety green shirts were $1.80 each.

I did another youth bible camp order. It ended up being a total of 50 shirts. They kept calling back and adding to the order. It was on two diff colored shirts with two diff designs. One had a full front on a safety green, and a small logo centered on the back beneath the collar. The other was on red shirts (yes you can do red, if you are using a dark color like black ink), it was full back and a small left chest. I charged $12 each for these. 

If you consider the shirts were about $1.80 each, and about $1.00 in ink costs, that is about $9 a shirt.... less my time. Now, understand that I dont chg for my art work on most of this stuff. For the most part, it is usually just a piece of clipart they selected and a few pieces of artistic text work in coreldraw that only took a few mins to lay out.

For me, the machine makes the money.... but I dont have regular orders like this all the time. I have actually listed my machine here in the classified. After getting this amount of business the last couple of months, I am having to reconsider that.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Great examples, Ken! And btw - my suggestion would be to stick it out. How long have you had your machine? There have been times where I have been sitting on very expensive equipment, not making me much money. But after a year or more of digital printing, business if FINALLY starting to explode. It was NOT like this the first 8 months.... That is why I used to have so much time to experiment with different substrates and such.


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## KenS (Apr 27, 2007)

Well Justin...... when we were first looking to open we were strictly embroidery. That is still our primary business. We were looking to compliment the embroidery with some form of shirt service. I looked at screen printing and the DTG. 

We were initially going to open in a larger city. When we compared rental rates, we decided to open in a small town (300 people) to keep overhead down. The DTG purchase was already in the works before we decided to do this. Since we opened in the small town, we dont have the foot traffic that we would have had otherwise. 

The DTG is best suited for small runs and 1 of a kind designs. With the increased foot traffic... I feel that those sales would have been much much greater. Now, we may go 2 months without an order for a DTG shirt. That has improved greatly the last month or so. So it is still up in the air as to what we decide. I get a lot more requests for larger runs of shirts that would be a headache on the DTG. I either have to farm out the screen printing and still try to be competetive with the mark up, or .... like I just did... take an order for 100+ t's and have transfers made. The transfers are a little more expensive than the screen printing... but I am pushing the sale and additional price by having them consider the fact that there is always late comers that want shirts later. 

The machine is paid for.... I just dont like the fact that it is idle so much. Esp when I could prob do more work with the screen printing. I know I am losing business there.

Wish me luck.... this will be my first experience with transfers... ordered from first-edition (or anyone else for that matter)


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## nocrid (Jun 10, 2006)

Justin Walker said:


> Great examples, Ken! And btw - my suggestion would be to stick it out. How long have you had your machine? There have been times where I have been sitting on very expensive equipment, not making me much money. But after a year or more of digital printing, business if FINALLY starting to explode. It was NOT like this the first 8 months.... That is why I used to have so much time to experiment with different substrates and such.


A year or more is really a long time to take/wait for the business to kick in...isn't it?

I mean those who started with a small pay-up capital and taking leasing would scratching their head if this happened.

Let's say putting $17,000 for the machine and forecasting a year of sales profit to pay up the machine. That you will only need to sell like $17,000/12 month/20 days= $70.83/$3(assuming the lowest profit)= 24 shirt perday or if you can make it better $70.83/$5 = 15 shirt per day...

I haven't been into the business yet, but I guess focusing on on hitting that 15 t-shirts ain't that hard...I suppose


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

There are VERY few businesses in this world that you will see ACTUAL net profit within the first three years. Digital garment printing is certainly fast, but it would be in your best interest to be realistic about this kind of investment. Of course, if you are doing this out of your garage with no additional overhead, your return rate will be faster.


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## KenS (Apr 27, 2007)

I would not invest in a DTG unless I had at least one of the following:



An established business that already includes t-shirts

The intention of doing traveling shows, flea markets or things like car or dog shows.

A location that has a large amount of foot traffic.

Established contacts who have a need or desire for one of a kind shirts

More money than sense


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

You can get at DTG printer that prints white for under $12,000 if you go to one of the shows. Having said that, a dark shirt printed with white ink, 2 passes, full coverage on a 10 inch square will run you about $5 just in ink. Add the cost of the pre-treatment, shirt, electricity, time, maintenance and you are looking at needing to sell those shirt wholesale for more than a screen printer might charge for the same thing. You can make money doing it and the light color shirts will probably be both easier and more profitable in the long run. 

Your advantage is really going to come in with short runs, light colored shirts, and rush orders. The screen print guys cannot compete with you on short runs and short timeframes. 

Look at it this way, you are printing a $15 bill with every shirt. It shouldn't take long to get back your investment that way.


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## Ujudgnme2 (Mar 28, 2006)

You are right for a person that already has foot traffic...I dont. I have clients, but nothing on a regular basis.




KenS said:


> I would not invest in a DTG unless I had at least one of the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

KenS said:


> I would not invest in a DTG unless I had at least one of the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have some marketing skills and know how to advertise, you can overcome most of these and build your own client base.


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## KenS (Apr 27, 2007)

That is very true Rodney. 

I am just voicing my opinion here but...... I would not "start" by going this route. I would look at the transfers first...maybe a vinyl cutter. Establish yourself in the business first without getting into the large investment of a DTG. 

Above all.... research, research, research. Get to know the the screen printers that arent interested in the DTG route or small runs. They will prob gladly refer the business. You get several of these people on your side, and reciprocate by sending them the large runs...you will prob do well.

An old saying comes to mind. 

Plan your work....work your plan.

That is something that we did not do. Had we opened in the area we initally planed to... I think things would have been much different. But... it seems as though the work is finding us anyway.

The embroidery is really taking off now.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

KenS said:


> The embroidery is really taking off now.


Embroidery has a higher perceived value than printed shirts. We sell embroidered shirts/jackets for $30+ all day long. Try to get that from a printed shirt! The best part is the cost of the garment isn't that much more but the profit margin is much higher.


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## Ujudgnme2 (Mar 28, 2006)

No one is really answering my question....after making a large investment for your DTG, when do you see a profit? If you paid $14K for a DTG, when or how long after will you see the $14K comeback and then there is profit. I am not asking for the $8 profit here and there. That's not profit....its making money, but you still have this outstanding amount.

As with my heatpress, I paid $1,600...it will take me awhile to see the $1,600 plus profit. I am working on the $1,600 part.

Also is this before the warranty expires...meaning if anything happens to the equipment, will you still be in the hole and you also have to put out funds to fix your DTG?

I am not asking for dollars and cents. The question is "When."




Ujudgnme2 said:


> I like to know at what point do you see a profit from purchasing/using a DTG?
> 
> Are you making money to pay it off or back to yourself after the purchase?
> 
> ...


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Dude are you serious? That is not a question that can BE answered. There is no magic number, no formula. There is no set amount of time before BAM!, you're all paid off. It doesn't work like that. This is a business and with business comes risk - it is the job of the entrepreneur to determine profitability and earn back his or her own investment whichever way they see fit.


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## FloridaGraphics (May 31, 2007)

I am unsure as to anyone else, but I can tell you on our opening day we had 1,500 shirts waiting to print at $7.15 profit per shirt (that is with tax in the price at 6%).

And merely by word of mouth alone, we were almost overwhelmed with orders, and this is not based on $4 to $5 profit per shirt.

If you get an order for 2,000 to 5,000 shirts, then order plastisol transfers from one of the reputable suppliers, in bulk you can get them down to sub $2.

Qwerks with DTG Printers? Yep. Varying opinions? Yep. Hype? Yep.

But can they pay for themselves? Absolutely. And rapidly I might add. Our city has certain legal and equality protocols in place for companies that get certified in various facets of compliance. Once we go through that, we get a portion of the cities various printing tasks and jobs (sports, maintenance, etc).

Yes, money can be made.

Our largest contract, out of the gate is a blood alliance, at almost 50,000 shirts per year. All from a FlexiJet (and problably 2 more with a few people helping). Well, I should clarify that, the Flexis or Plastisol transfers...

Yes everyone, you can make a nice income from DTG printing.


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

seems like everyone talks about how volume is key- i make really high end pima cotton garments and use a dtg printer and i can profit like crazy because i don't have to produce 100 pieces to get a good profit margin- so i think it really depends on what your designs are worth.


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## KenS (Apr 27, 2007)

Well it depends on what you consider profit.

Is it whats left after monthly payments and expenses? Does it include your overhead? What is your overhead? Are you paying $1,000 a month rent for a shop that will only have a DTG machine?

What kinda volume do you believe you will do?

Even as slow as my DTG business has been.... I will have paid for it within 18 months.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

There are 3 kinds of profit. Gross, Net, Net after taxes. Your gross profit is your selling price minus cost of goods sold COGS (shirt, ink, any other supplies used in the process that you can capture cost). Your net is your Gross profit for all sales over a period minus your other expenses. Your Net after taxes is what you have left after the government takes what it wants. 

The first battle is easy. You need to have a gross profit on each order. There are some exceptions but basically you just want to make money on each one. Once you can do that then your operating expenses need to be covered. This is where volume comes into play. You need the volume to pay the bulldogs of rent/insurance/utilities/advertising/etc. 

Volume is only achieved by doing sales. I don't mean people buying your stuff, I mean getting out there and selling your product. It doesn't matter if you only sell on the internet or if you do it the old fashioned way of cold calling potential customers. It is all the same thing. 

Given all of that, if you can make $5 per garment sold (wholesale sales) there is no reason you cannot be profitable. All you need is the sales effort. If you are selling retail and you are the manufacturer (you print the garments) you should be in hog heaven as your profit margin will be much higher. 

Now, if you are just offering DTG services I don't see how you can make money. You need a more well rounded product/service offering. Even if you send the work out you need to offer embroidery, vinyl, and possibly other types of printing or promo items. You want to keep your customers in-house as much as possible. Our experience is that once we have a customer they never shop our prices around and they will stick with us unless we really piss them off.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Ujudgnme2 said:


> No one is really answering my question....after making a large investment for your DTG, when do you see a profit? If you paid $14K for a DTG, when or how long after will you see the $14K comeback and then there is profit. I am not asking for the $8 profit here and there. That's not profit....its making money, but you still have this outstanding amount.
> I am not asking for dollars and cents. The question is "When."


You're asking a question that can not really be answered. How long is a piece of string?

Some people could make their money back in 2 months while others might take a year or more. I have met some other DTG printers who haven't made a single cent in 1 year! One local printer in my State has only printed 50 'test' runs in the year he has owned a DTG machine. He simply can't work the machine to its potential and it was the wrong equipment for his business model.

So yeah, no one will give you a firm answer.


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

8 1/2 inches.... to the string question


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## Ujudgnme2 (Mar 28, 2006)

Justin Dude, I am proposing the ? to those that can answer it. Thank you.



Justin Walker said:


> Dude are you serious? That is not a question that can BE answered. There is no magic number, no formula. There is no set amount of time before BAM!, you're all paid off. It doesn't work like that. This is a business and with business comes risk - it is the job of the entrepreneur to determine profitability and earn back his or her own investment whichever way they see fit.


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## Ujudgnme2 (Mar 28, 2006)

I understand your response. I know there is money to be made, but I was wondering at what point can someone consider it profit. There maybe some dtg'ers who have made their money back for the equipment and are now profitting from the sales. I know this is based on the amount of business, etc., so it is probably not a good question for some. The question is for that person who has made their money back and are now profitting...how long did it take that person.

I guess I am different from most...if the question does not pertain to me, I dont respond. I know we all have our own definition of "profit."

Thanks all.



zhenjie said:


> You're asking a question that can not really be answered. How long is a piece of string?
> 
> Some people could make their money back in 2 months while others might take a year or more. I have met some other DTG printers who haven't made a single cent in 1 year! One local printer in my State has only printed 50 'test' runs in the year he has owned a DTG machine. He simply can't work the machine to its potential and it was the wrong equipment for his business model.
> 
> So yeah, no one will give you a firm answer.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

But even if someone does give you an answer. What would it achieve for you? You are likely to run a different business model and in a totally different enviroment so any answer which may be provided would most likely be useless for you.

csquared:  , thats a pretty long piece of string!


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Ujudgnme2 said:


> I like to know at what point do you see a profit from purchasing/using a DTG?
> 
> Are you making money to pay it off or back to yourself after the purchase?
> 
> ...


This was your original list of questions. It does not seem like a "How long did it take YOU to pay off your machine" type of question. It is much more vague than that. If you are asking how long it TOOK specific people, that is something else entirely. But asking things like "Will the warranty expire before the DTG pays for itself?" is not something that ANYONE can answer. It all depends on your business. Did MINE expire before it paid for itself? No. There ya go. An answer for you.

*I am not asking for dollars and cents. The question is "When."

*Again, this seems rather vague. I attempted to answer your question as best as I could in the very beginning. You blew it off and said that was not what you were asking. So many of us in this thread have either said the same thing, or tried to seek clarification. If you don't want dollars and cents examples, then I will give you MY specific experience:

My Flexi did NOT pay for itself before I sold it. The reason was because I cut my own throat with my price structure. I was busting my butt and making peanuts. Not to say the VOLUME wasn't there... Just not the profit margins. However, I recognized the volume of business I was taking in, so I upgraded to the Kornit. Has it paid for itself? No. Will it by the end of the year? At this rate, yes. Will my warranty expire first? No. Will it stop working before that point? God, I hope not. 

Just as zhenjie mentioned, I am not sure how this information will help you if you don't want specific numbers, but there you go. An answer for you. Also, it might really be useful for you to check out Brian Walker's spreadsheet for DTG ROI vs. Screen printing ROI. Click the link to find it:

Screenprinting and Digital Garment Printing University

It is a wonderful tool, and it is exactly what convinced ME to get into this business over a year ago. Hope it helps.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Try this out. Figure you make $10 per shirt and paid $14K. It will take you 1400 shirts to pay for the press. Now, if you do 50 shirts a day, it will take you 28 days to pay for the press. Now, if you work 5 days a week it will take you 5.6 weeks to pay for the press. You asked the question on June 13th. If you took delivery on the press on that day you should have it paid off by July 24th. Pretty simple, actually.


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