# What would you guess for stitch count?



## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok I got an est from my digitizer, but I just wanted to check and verify it is correct. The digitizer said 8000-10000 stitches.

Also, I quoted the job at $4.20. Left chest logo on 150 polos. Does that sound close to where you would be? They said a few quotes came in under me, but I am think I am not going drop down any.

Thanks Troy


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## ShopWorks (Feb 16, 2010)

In addition to the stitch count, I would be very concerned about quality with this design. It is very "text intensive" and if going on a left chest, especially on pique polos, it might not look very good. Some of the fonts are fairly small.

Make sure the digitizing company is actually "digitizing" the text and not just low-ending it using fonts in their digitizing package. It can make a big difference in the quality!


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## propsuper (Mar 23, 2008)

I agree with Jay and if they can get it done for less more power to em personally my machine and I dont work for nothing


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

thutch15 said:


> Ok I got an est from my digitizer, but I just wanted to check and verify it is correct. The digitizer said 8000-10000 stitches.
> 
> Also, I quoted the job at $4.20. Left chest logo on 150 polos. Does that sound close to where you would be? They said a few quotes came in under me, but I am think I am not going drop down any.
> 
> Thanks Troy


The stitch count may be right. But, I would not even think about doing this job for $4.20 per shirt. Are you considering the cost of your thread, backing, your time to hoop and trim? I wouldn't touch it for less than $10 per shirt.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

lizziemaxine said:


> The stitch count may be right. But, I would not even think about doing this job for $4.20 per shirt. Are you considering the cost of your thread, backing, your time to hoop and trim? I wouldn't touch it for less than $10 per shirt.


Wow really...that is shocking. I would never have thought I would be that low. Thanks for the input.


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## propsuper (Mar 23, 2008)

right on jane


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## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

lizziemaxine said:


> The stitch count may be right. But, I would not even think about doing this job for $4.20 per shirt. Are you considering the cost of your thread, backing, your time to hoop and trim? I wouldn't touch it for less than $10 per shirt.


$10 per shirt seems a bit high. I would have quoted them $8 per shirt, if they provided the shirts. And $6.50 if they bought the shirts from us.

The stitch count seems about right. Although, I would have them change the font for "of Greater Saint Joseph" to maybe a block font, or something thicker like the wording for "Community".



ShopWorks said:


> Make sure the digitizing company is actually "digitizing" the text and not just low-ending it using fonts in their digitizing package. It can make a big difference in the quality!


If I were digitizing this design, I would digitize the word "Action" from scratch, all the other wording I would use basic block fonts, or something close. Can you tell me how that would be "low-ending" it? (not trying to be rude, I figured any digitizer would just use a font they already have for basic text, especially block)

Just make sure your digitizer adds a good amount of pull comp for all the wording.


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## todie (May 29, 2009)

$4.20 is not enough in my opinion (but I'm from Quebec so...). Just don't forget you have 2 colors & 4 lines of text. I would be concerned about the quality too, because of the tiny fingers and the small lettering. The stitch count is ok but don't change your price, are you sure they had a better quotes? They might just say that to make you lower your price. Anyway if I was you, I would let them go anywhere else, I don't want to deal with a customer who always try to make me lower my prices...time consuming with lowest profit, what's in it for you?


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## mrblfx (Feb 18, 2009)

Well I'am going to add my thoughts we would do this in the
$8-10 range. If they provide the shirts it would be $10 for
sure. Just consider the time spent sewing, Hooping and triming the item and folding or baging etc you have a small
design but their is still working involved and you need to be
compensated for that

Jim


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## mrblfx (Feb 18, 2009)

Let me add to that no one has mentioned any fee for the digitizing .. or did i miss that

JIM


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks again for all the input. 

I might also add that I am making around $3-4 per shirt on top of the embroidery charge. Also I am just a 1 head machine guy, so this one would take a little time.


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

If you are a true contract shop with 20 or more heads, you might be in the right price range, but anything less I'd say Jane is much closer. Text always takes more time to do if done correctly. This is one of those that you can't price by the stitch count. I'd be surprised if you can stitch this faster than 15 minutes each. I'm not that expensive, but if I can't make at least $60/head / hour, it isn't worth my time to turn the machines on. I also agree with Jay that there is an awful lot of text there for a left chest logo. People will always say they can get things cheaper, and there are always those who can do things cheaper but: they won't be in business long or their quality , or lack thereof, shows up more often than not. If all a customer wants is "cheap", I'll happily send him to my competition.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

imeccentric said:


> If you are a true contract shop with 20 or more heads, you might be in the right price range, but anything less I'd say Jane is much closer. Text always takes more time to do if done correctly. This is one of those that you can't price by the stitch count. I'd be surprised if you can stitch this faster than 15 minutes each. I'm not that expensive, but if I can't make at least $60/head / hour, it isn't worth my time to turn the machines on. I also agree with Jay that there is an awful lot of text there for a left chest logo. People will always say they can get things cheaper, and there are always those who can do things cheaper but: they won't be in business long or their quality , or lack thereof, shows up more often than not. If all a customer wants is "cheap", I'll happily send him to my competition.


I am still struggling with prices for my area...I have been shooting for the $30-$40 per hour range. I would love to set the standard at $60 per hour per head, but I think it might be a little much for my area...


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## jmj (Feb 24, 2008)

Wow, $4.20 per shirt, I would go out of business. I would be at $8.00 provided I provide the shirts and may knock off a few dollars from retail on that quantity. I tell my customers I do not do cheap if you want cheap order off the internet or go to the shop that quoted you a cheaper price. I had a customer who went to another shop over $.50, oh well, next thing I know they are back in my shop asking me to please re-do their order because the cheap shop really screwed them. I only had less than a week to do 50 shirts and had to order them, that cost them a pretty penny, but I've had their business every since. If you are a good embroiderer and you know you produce a good product, do not under cut yourself, let them go down the street 99% of them will be back.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

jmj said:


> Wow, $4.20 per shirt, I would go out of business. I would be at $8.00 provided I provide the shirts and may knock off a few dollars from retail on that quantity. I tell my customers I do not do cheap if you want cheap order off the internet or go to the shop that quoted you a cheaper price. I had a customer who went to another shop over $.50, oh well, next thing I know they are back in my shop asking me to please re-do their order because the cheap shop really screwed them. I only had less than a week to do 50 shirts and had to order them, that cost them a pretty penny, but I've had their business every since. If you are a good embroiderer and you know you produce a good product, do not under cut yourself, let them go down the street 99% of them will be back.


I am truly at $6.70 I was not counting what I was going to make off the shirt. So I am low, but not as bad as I thought to begin with. I am guessing right in the $25 - $30 per hour, which I will increase...but still in the "price" learning process.


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## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

thutch15 said:


> I am truly at $6.70 I was not counting what I was going to make off the shirt. So I am low, but not as bad as I thought to begin with. I am guessing right in the $25 - $30 per hour, which I will increase...but still in the "price" learning process.


Something else I didn't think of until right now, this design will likely have a lot of thread trims, by my estimate, at least 20.. which will add a significant amount of time to the embroidery. 

However, $6.70 sounds about right if they're buying the shirts from you. Our pricing for this logo would be $6.50 per polo for the embroidery, assuming they're buying the polos from us. In which case, we would stand to make about $12 to $15 per polo.

Good luck


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

SystemVoid said:


> Something else I didn't think of until right now, this design will likely have a lot of thread trims, by my estimate, at least 20.. which will add a significant amount of time to the embroidery.
> 
> However, $6.70 sounds about right if they're buying the shirts from you. Our pricing for this logo would be $6.50 per polo for the embroidery, assuming they're buying the polos from us. In which case, we would stand to make about $12 to $15 per polo.
> 
> Good luck


Great now I feel like I screwed myself again. I am saying that I am making $6.70 per shirt TOTAL. $4.20 of the embroidery and $2.50 from them buying the shirt from me. WONDERFUL!


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## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

thutch15 said:


> Great now I feel like I screwed myself again. I am saying that I am making $6.70 per shirt TOTAL. $4.20 of the embroidery and $2.50 from them buying the shirt from me. WONDERFUL!


Hey, don't beat yourself up. Believe me, when we started out, we made some very costly mistakes.. One of which is so embarrassing, I don't even like telling people about it. Basically, it was a metallic thread design, 30,000 stitches, on leather biker jackets, we should have quoted them about $500 per jacket, we quoted them $40 per jacket. Oops.

Learn from it, move on and remember that most of us out here have made plenty of mistakes.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

SystemVoid said:


> Hey, don't beat yourself up. Believe me, when we started out, we made some very costly mistakes.. One of which is so embarrassing, I don't even like telling people about it. Basically, it was a metallic thread design, 30,000 stitches, on leather biker jackets, we should have quoted them about $500 per jacket, we quoted them $40 per jacket. Oops.
> 
> Learn from it, move on and remember that most of us out here have made plenty of mistakes.


haha...thanks for the pick me up.


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

You're going to have 15-20 minutes per shirt with a single head. 3 shirts an hour pretty much. Back out your income from that... embroidery prices are not so much based on costs as they are on time. However, if you are selling the garment, plan for waste too. If your average costs exceed 65% of your income, you are circling the drain. (pretend you are renting the machine as a part of your costs)


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

I messed up a $125 Ralph Lauren Oxford Shirt putting three initials on the cuff that I was getting $5.00 for.


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## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

LUV DEM TIGERS said:


> I messed up a $125 Ralph Lauren Oxford Shirt putting three initials on the cuff that I was getting $5.00 for.


We would never replace a shirt that expensive, regardless of who made the mistake. And we're very upfront with our customers from the beginning about our "No replacements on clothing you paid a ridiculous amount of money for" policy.

To put a monogram on a cuff of a shirt, we would charge $15.00 if we were doing just one shirt. $10.00 for a second shirt, and $8.00 for each thereafter.


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

Daniel,
I think most of us have the policy of not replacing shirts not supplied by us, no matter who's fault it is or what the cost is. For good customers, I might, but it is right on my order form that I don't have to. Over the years, I think I've replaced around 5 or so shirts(but luckily haven't ruined that many either) .


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Good discussion.

I'm currently sitting here minding my single head machine running a 9,000 stich count left chest logo for a 100 polo order. We do contract work for a local sporting goods store and they are a steady customer. However, the owner is notoriously cheap and procrastinates like you can't imagine. But he's been a steady source of income for us so I put up with him.

Our situation may be different from most out there but ours is more of a hobby-business since I have a full time job in the USAF. Actually, I have 26 years in and may be thinking about retirement in which case it may become more of a business and less of a hobby if I can't find another job. Anyway, back to the 100 polo order. He calls me up Wednesday asking for a quote on this job and he needed the shirts by Tuesday and tells me we are bidding against another embroiderer. Mind you, I don't think he's used another embroiderer for some time now and I'm not so sure how many other shops in town would be able to get them done by Tuesday. He's providing the shirts and I didn't pick them up until Friday afternoon. I base our pricing on stitch count and we are probably on the low end of pricing primarily because it is a home-based hobby business and we don't have to make a profit...income yes to make it worth our time. We quoted him $5.40 per shirt and he immediately said we had the job. Again, he may or may not have had a competing bid but I just quoted him what we normally would have charged him. Our policy is we upcharge by 25% if a customer supplies the garment and we don't charge the 25% when we are doing contract work for this sporting goods store owner and I'm sure he upcharges for the embroidery. 

We are knocking out each of these shirts in 10 minutes so $32.40/hour.


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## holcomb (Dec 5, 2007)

In my shop we would be charging .50 per thousand. At 8K on a 6-head we could do around 3 runs per hour. That would be $72.00 per hour. However, if you are trying to this job on a single head machine you need to pass it up and stick to the smaller quantity jobs.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

So you would be happy with an order of 100 polos on a 6 head.
At what number should one outsource?


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Outsourcing on a very large order, for us, depends upon how busy we are at the time. We're never that busy so we'd never outsource. My wife would be afraid to do a 1,000 item order. But if we had enough time to get it done I'd still take the job. I would think the rule should be to outsource a large job if it interferes with what you are currently working on and wouldn't be able to complete your current jobs and the large order on time.


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

Knowing when to outsource is the trick. My largest order was 900 caps, front and side. Using just 3 heads, it took less than 2 weeks. They could have gotten them done cheaper from someone with more heads, but my turnaround and being able to change colors for them was worth it to them(different types of caps also). I never price by the stitch count, but depend more on the time a design takes. $1/minute is about right for me. Usually 4-5 items / hour is about all you can do on a single head, so you just have to figure what kind of a wage you think you are worth Personally, I'm *always *worth more than I charge(just need to convince the customers of that). If anyone ever says they are price shopping, I politely tell them I think the others guys prices are good and they should go there. Selling anything, is all about *perceived *value, never actual value.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

myfinishingtouch said:


> Outsourcing on a very large order, for us, depends upon how busy we are at the time. We're never that busy so we'd never outsource. My wife would be afraid to do a 1,000 item order. But if we had enough time to get it done I'd still take the job. I would think the rule should be to outsource a large job if it interferes with what you are currently working on and wouldn't be able to complete your current jobs and the large order on time.


Excellent response.


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