# Is siser still worth it if it cost more than stahl?



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I've read that siser is cheaper (than stahl???) and is easy to weed(among others) so I made a few inquiries and found out that local(*Philippines*) distributor of siser is selling the siser at a price higher than stahl's.

Stahl 
Econoprint 255 ($6.00/yd)
thermofilm 560 ($13.15/yf)
thermo flock 610 ($14.32/yd)

Siser 
PS Film 663-690 ($15.56-16.20/mtr)
PS Electric 717-771 ($16.83-18.10/mtr)
Videoflex MODA 726-771 ($17.04-18.10/mtr)
Stripflock 851 ($20.00/mtr)

China polyurethane vinyl 190($4.46/mtr)
Korean polyurethane vinyl 230($5.40/mtr)
Korean PVC vinyl 195($4.58/mtr)

I understand that the price of siser should be P650 1 square meter or about 325 for 1 linear meter or about $7.63 but the local distributor does is not only selling at a higher price but at half the size.

I am planning to use either stahls or siser for more expensive shirts. I like the hot peel and its ability to tolerate 80C heat in the washing machine. It also has more colors available locally which is a plus. Chinese, Korean and stahl vinyl have about 6-7 colors only here. But I think the extra cost is cutting deep into my "small" profits. For those who have the opportunity to use and compare the two (stahl and siser), or those who have enough knowledge of the two, is siser still worth it at the above prices? 

TIA


----------



## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Here is my caution - take those two companies and look at who they really are and where the stuff comes from. If you go far enough up the chain - you may see that you are dealing with the same company. You will have to compare a lot of their products, which are the same under the hood. I am not saying it in this particular case, I am just saying. There are many computers out there, but how many companies making the CPU.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

idonaldson said:


> Here is my caution - take those two companies and look at who they really are and where the stuff comes from. If you go far enough up the chain - you may see that you are dealing with the same company. You will have to compare a lot of their products, which are the same under the hood. I am not saying it in this particular case, I am just saying. There are many computers out there, but how many companies making the CPU.


Testing and comparisons would be costly for us.

It is possible stahl is made by siser?


----------



## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Other way around - stahls owns siser through its child company.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I wan of the impression that siser is the manufacturer. But irregardless of who owns who or who is the manufacturer, is siser vinyl worth the extra cost that local distributors add to siser? Stahl in the Philippines seems to have limited colors. How much is siser PS film and Stahl thermoflex/thermo film in the US?


----------



## 100%pinoy (Jun 15, 2009)

chemica is good brand.. i'm not happy with siser, specially the videoflex.

Heat transfer foil : Chemica, flocking company, creation of heat transfer film for textiles


----------



## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Try both and see what you prefer. I've found siser to be the highest quality vinyl we can get. It works with the widest variety of textiles.


----------



## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

I then would see if siser is better than solution opaque from Imprintables. Chemica is another good company producing vinyl. They do the shows and you would be surprise at who else carries them.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

100%pinoy said:


> chemica is good brand.. i'm not happy with siser, specially the videoflex.
> 
> Heat transfer foil : Chemica, flocking company, creation of heat transfer film for textiles


Why? Is chemica available in the Philippines? I did check their site and they have 20 pantone colors. What is its price range?


----------



## 100%pinoy (Jun 15, 2009)

have no idea if it available in Pinas. I have numerous unsatisfactory complaints with my customers that it is feeling off and from my test prints after numerous washing. No idea if i purchased a bad batch or old stock from local supplier.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Could it be a bad batch?

Siser claims it could withstand 80C washing temp and could be ironed. Or could it be like those korean low temp vinyls which if pressed too hot or for too long would lose adhesiveness?

BTW, for what this is worth, I've tried those 110-120C 10 seconds korean vinyl, which some suppliers have "tested" and recommended at 100-110C 8 seconds. Other suppliers recommended 120C 15 seconds(US press) and 130C 15 seconds(China press). But mine peels off when tested from 100C, 120 & 130C. I tested it all the way to 170-180C 8 seconds before it stuck to the garment. They're supposed to lose adhesiveness (permanently) if pressed too hot like more than 120C as one supplier says.

This is one reason why I am asking questions(this thread) as isolated personal testing may not give the entire picture which among others may include too many bad batches or other less common problems.

Would anyone know what happens with old stocks? I noticed in the Chemica site, http://www.chemica.fr/pdf_produits/technique_30_2.pdf, under "Maintenance", it says 
*Storage of the roll : vertically, one year in a dry room, 15-30°C (USA 60-85°F), protected from sunlight.*


----------



## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

BroJames said:


> Siser claims it could withstand 80C washing temp and could be ironed.



We use it for our shop shirts. These get ironed after every wash and I have no problem. It's regular siser easy weed silver on top of black.

We press at 350F for 10 seconds on the black then remove the liner and add the silver and press for 7ish seconds. Then after removing the carrier we press it a final time with just parchment paper for about 15 seconds to cure everything.


----------



## natloc (May 21, 2007)

I am just small time, but it makes it ever so important that what I do produce is "good stuff." Stahl's has been fantastic for me! Great customer service!


----------



## 100%pinoy (Jun 15, 2009)

BroJames said:


> Could it be a bad batch?
> Would anyone know what happens with old stocks? I noticed in the Chemica site, [media]http://www.chemica.fr/pdf_produits/technique_30_2.pdf[/media], under "Maintenance", it says
> *Storage of the roll : vertically, one year in a dry room, 15-30°C (USA 60-85°F), protected from sunlight.*


it may not be a bad batch, in my case. but century stock left in the store room to collect layer of dust waiting for me. Lucky me purchased 4 - 10 meter roll.

purchase chemica in dubai for QR300(php3600) per 10meter roll + shiiping.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

100%pinoy said:


> ...purchase chemica in dubai for QR300(php3600) per 10meter roll + shiiping.


Seems like a reasonable price. I've asked around but nobody seems to hear of them. Probably no distributor yet in the Philippines, If there is one, I hope they won't be too greedy and sell it at P7200 per 10 meter (or QR600) or more.

Would you have a rough idea how much shipping to the Philippines will cost?


----------



## 100%pinoy (Jun 15, 2009)

BroJames said:


> Seems like a reasonable price. I've asked around but nobody seems to hear of them. Probably no distributor yet in the Philippines, If there is one, I hope they won't be too greedy and sell it at P7200 per 10 meter (or QR600) or more.
> 
> Would you have a rough idea how much shipping to the Philippines will cost?



have no idea how much.... if you are interested PM me


----------

