# Can different digitized image make this much of a difference?



## skyhawkpress (May 18, 2010)

Need your guys' help on this. We had some hats embroidered in Seattle by a company that is now out of business. Now we are down in Monterey and had to start all over. The difference in the quality of the embroidery is striking. The embroiderer discussed having the image re-digitized...but I don't know why there should be this much of a difference if both companies started with the same image.

Thoughts? 

OldEmbroidery | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

MontereyEmbroidery | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

Yep, if same image but two different digitized files or even settings in two machines they can be different. In this case it looks like the setting that controls the length of the satin stitch is part of the problem.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Firstly, I am not into embroidery but as far as I know:

Embroiderer's charge a digitizing fee for transforming your image in a file format that their machine can read. stitch or embroider. This file is kept as their property so if you switch to another embroidery company, even if they have the same machine as your previous embroiderer, you will have to pay another digitizing fee.

The image you have is of no use unless it is "digitized"

From what I can see the new embroidery company did a poorer digitizing job or sub it out to someone who did it poorly so they are recommending the image be redigitized. Note that the detail of what the bird has in its beak was lost. 

Will they be charging another digitizing fee?

A possible problem is also the number of stitches or maybe the machine they use or their settings. The new embroidery seems to have fewer stitches and has more space in the bird's chest and wings so maybe they try to save a little in stitches.


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## BlueTarper (Apr 3, 2009)

It can make a big difference of who does the digitizing using the exact same image. Digitizing is an art form and for those that know what they are doing can make a difference between creating an okay finished product to an amazing piece of work.


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## daddyoslogos (Aug 24, 2011)

I Like the OldEmbroidery one. They took it one step beyond just digitizing the logo. They used different directions of the thread to add depth to the logo. Nice job.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

The "Old" design looks great, nice transitions of the satin stitches and as someone pointed out, good use of stitch angles. 

The "New" design looks like an autodigitized design, lousy use of the tatami fill with holes in the body and head of the bird. The thread does not look metallic like the old design. Much less underlay and densities are a bit off. And even worse, the design is way too high on the cap, unless you asked for it to be placed there.

If you give the same graphic to ten digitizers you will get ten different results. If however, you gave the second shop both the graphics AND a sample of what was done previously then there is no excuse for the result. And with any new digitizing, you should see an actual sewn sample first, not just a screen shot.

And there is nothing wrong with having your art professionally digitized so that you own the file. You may pay a bit more but then you eliminate a huge variable if you have to switch embroiderers.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

It is all in the skill of the person doing the digitizing.


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## ecampbell (Jul 14, 2010)

First let me preface this by saying that I've been digitizing commercially for around 12 years.

I think a great deal of the problem folks have is with the word 'digitize' - it sounds like we put your original file through some sort of conversion process when the truth is that we manually interpret the image, drawing the areas to be filled with stitches and choose the stitch type, length, direction, and sequence, all with artistic effect in mind. Your original digitizer is a craftsperson after my own heart- they chose to 'carve' your design by using overlapping, directional satin stitches that catch the light and create interesting surface texture. Very classic. Your next digitizer, in my opinion, got lazy and only filled in the areas in the easiest way they could.

So, from one digitizer to the next, the image can change in as significant a way as if you asked two painters to render the same scene- there is a style, a 'hand' if you will, that is unique to each. You may see a lot of overlap based on their influences/who taught them/what software and tools they have available, but no two digitizers will render a design in an identical fashion. If you ever have any specific questions for a digitizer, feel free to get in touch.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

I am far from a "professional" digitizer, but I do some of my own and I send some out if it is beyond my abilities, and as Clint Eastwood once said, "a man has to know his limitations". 

Sometimes the evaluation and determining what you are going to do with the digitizing takes almost as much time as the actual digitizing. 

It looks like someone did the "new one" as fast as they could and didn't put much thought in it. 

I am impressed by the first one. Someone really put a lot of thought into that.


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

Digitizing is more of an art than a defined procedure. The more experienced the digitizer is and the more pride they take in there work the nicer it will be. A lot of people use a discount digitizer that is really in India or China, even though the base company is in the US. Also there have been several auto digitizing programs introduced over the last decade. These programs can produce OK results. Some allow more user interaction than others when it comes to making adjustments. Many people use these and simply don't understand digitizing. They therefore accept the results without question.


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## gnizitigid (Jan 23, 2007)

I am digitizing from 20 years and i am sure its due to the digitizing of image, each digitizer have different way to digitize. Some use high density and some use low density


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

The difference is the digitizing process.

Old one is far better. Isn't there anyway you can get hold of your old files?


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## skyhawkpress (May 18, 2010)

I don't think so. He went out of business....


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

skyhawkpress said:


> I don't think so. He went out of business....


if you have his direct number and you are in good terms and he has a backup somewhere of all his designs, Im sure you will both be able to work something out.....even if you might have to pay for all your designs it might be worth considering.

example...you supplied a client with caps embroidered with that eagle on it few years ago. He now comes back and wants a repeat order. To safeguard yourself you will need to get the design redigitized and make a sample again for approval, because you no longer are using the old design and the threads might also be slightly different. In this case the client is going to reject the new eagle because its poor compared to what he got before. So you're stuck now. You will now have to find a very good digitizer who will replicate the embroidered version of the previously made design and not from the artwork, so that both designs look the same once stitched.

This is going to be a very tedious job which is why I'd suggest getting those original files even if its going to cost you.


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

and Alisha many might tell you that a company gone out of business does not own those designs anymore and therefore are not allowed to be distributed......I think thats all bullocks!!! You built your business around that company and invested in the designs......you have a lot of clients relying on you because of that and now suddenly if your quality drops, you will be on the streets. So sometimes you have to do things differently without anyone knowing about it to survive because nobody is going to save you when your company goes down. be smart and do what you have to do!!!


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

skyhawkpress said:


> Need your guys' help on this. We had some hats embroidered in Seattle by a company that is now out of business. Now we are down in Monterey and had to start all over. The difference in the quality of the embroidery is striking. The embroiderer discussed having the image re-digitized...but I don't know why there should be this much of a difference if both companies started with the same image.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ...


definately two different files. When you send an image to an "artist" they are going to interpret it a little differently. If you were to send the artwork AND the picture of the sew-out you could have them interpret it just like the original as long as all other parameters are accounted for. The first file shows more attention to detail, but if the detail is not there to begin with(the artwork) and you are shopping for a lower price or a less stitch intensive design, this is going to cause the "artist" to design accordingly and will not "put out" as much.


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## richt74 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hi skyhawkpress

Yes, two people digitising the same image will always create very different results! Do you need the 'old design' still for the job? If you still need it I will be able to replicate it from your photo for you! If you do still need the design let me know and I can digitise it for you!
Thanks
Rich


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

It looks like the older design is larger than the new one.
Unless the caps are different sizes, the bottom of each design appears to be different heights from bottom seam where peak meets crown.
That could also be due to different machines stitching different design heights on caps.

The older version is definitey a better result, created by someone who knows what they are doing.

Just curious, was the same artwork used for both?
Maybe you could post a small image of the artwork so we can see what the end result was to be.
I ask only because the wings are so different between the two designs.
Also it looks like the new one has been done with tatami (fill) stitch for the body, while the older one has been done entirly with satin stitch.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

ecampbell said:


> ...Your original digitizer is a craftsperson after my own heart- they chose to 'carve' your design by using overlapping, directional satin stitches that catch the light and create interesting surface texture. Very classic. Your next digitizer, in my opinion, got lazy and only filled in the areas in the easiest way they could.
> 
> So, from one digitizer to the next, the image can change in as significant a way as if you asked two painters to render the same scene- there is a style, a 'hand' if you will, that is unique to each. ...


Frankly, I don't think your painter is a good example in thisd particular case. I really don't see a style, hand or unique art here. But your opinion, that the 2nd digitizer got lazy could be more the case. Either that, or we're seeing his/her best skill.

If you(the OP) are planning ot continue doing business with the embroiderer, I think you should have a serious talk with him/her. Why did he/she recommend that person and why is the job so lousy. I would think twice about working with an embroiderer who knowingly recommends such digitizer. Or is it his/her employee or 'hand'? Not trying to speculate but I would try to talk with the embroiderer.

And as others suggested, isn't there a sample embroidery first?


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

ecampbell said:


> ...Your original digitizer is a craftsperson after my own heart- they chose to 'carve' your design by using overlapping, directional satin stitches that catch the light and create interesting surface texture. Very classic. Your next digitizer, in my opinion, got lazy and only filled in the areas in the easiest way they could.
> 
> So, from one digitizer to the next, the image can change in as significant a way as if you asked two painters to render the same scene- there is a style, a 'hand' if you will, that is unique to each. ...


Frankly, I don't think your painter is a good example in thisd particular case. I really don't see a style, hand or unique art here. But your opinion, that the 2nd digitizer got lazy could be more the case. Either that, or we're seeing his/her best skill.

If you are planning to continue doing business with the embroiderer, I think you should have a serious talk with him/her. Why did he/she recommend that person and why is the job so lousy. I would think twice about working with an embroiderer who knowingly recommends such digitizer. Or is it his/her employee or 'hand'? Not trying to speculate but I would try to talk with the embroiderer.

And as others suggested, isn't there a sample embroidery first?


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## theshirtman (Jan 19, 2012)

The quality of your embroidery will be a result of the quality of the digitizing and the machine operator. There will be a huge difference between companies.

Best of Luck


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