# best dye sub design ware / ICC / RIP



## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

Hello, 

I promise you all that I have extensively searched this site and others and still have some questions: 

Once I purchase a good quality Heat Press (decided on Geo Knight) and a CISS printer system from Cobra WF7110 sub system what else do I need? Certainly I need Corel or Gimp to design. However, does the ink supplier (Cobra in this case) supply the ICC profile? 

The next question is do I require so form of RIP software compatible with both printer and Corel in order for printer and Corel to communicate? 

Thank you for your expertise!


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

No RIP needed. Cobra supplies the ICC profile.


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi Angela- there are several types of Corel - which version do you use? Thanks and PS I asked this question to you in the other forum before seeing this

very much appreciated!


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I am using Corel Draw x7. After installing, I upgraded the software twice which helped eliminate some bugs I initially encountered.


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

Angela - thank you for your time! much appreciated!


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Consider Photoshop as another option. That is what I use and I have never had to update to fix any problems and I'm using CS4  

I think I have read that Gimp will not do color profiles so it is out. 

And Melissa is right no RIP needed. Some on here use one but there truly is no need. Just print in RGB not CMYK and you will be fine.


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

Same goes for the serif suites, page, draw and photo, work in RGB and be done with it. the icc's are in your printer management.


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## David09 (Oct 2, 2015)

Photoshop is a better option


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

David09 said:


> Photoshop is a better option


Serif once purchased is yours forever

Gimp is totally free and does everything that photoshop could ever do, and installing ICC's can be found here How to Add ICC Profiles In GIMP - Digital Photography School 

I started with Serif a long time ago, My partner uses Gimp, and although I have persistently given it a go, for ease of use and laziness I always fire up Pageplus initially and from there I have access to the rest of the suite as needed whilst staying on my design page.

Any program is down to personal preference and all are a steep learning curve.


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

steep learning curve indeed! Gimp is free which is attractive. With photoshop I note the price goes from several hundred to in the thousands. what is the difference? why so expensive if Gimp is free. 

I have to admit I began fooling with Gimp and I was overwhelmed. BUT this will change when i learn with an actual 'helper' as opposed to online..I hope. 

if ease of use was my only concern which would you go with - at least initially? OR is it better to simply dive into the one that I will use long term?

Thank you all!!

I really appreciate the expertise. It saves me a lot of grief!


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

I dont let Sheree (partner) use the Serif to design with apart from whacking customer images on a mug wrap and printing them off.
Because Gimp is all things possible I want her to learn Gimp only and not take the easier route with Serif. Everything you want to do regarding Gimp and designing has a comprehensive you tube video lesson online. Sheree pauses the video and tries out what they do before going on.

She is pretty good now and has been using it for a year or so for her jewellery designs and of late has been cleaning old family photos with it.

Gimp is free because it is open source. as are all Linux operating Systems. If you were a coder you can contribute to the open source network, and if for example photo shop brought out some new tool that is of any use, the open source community don't take very long to bring out an improved version of that idea and update Gimp with it. Thats why I say that it has more uses than Photoshop has BUT your going to be watching a LOT of training videos to get started


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Wow! I hadn't looked at the price of Photoshop in so very long. I don't even remember what I paid for mine or if I got it from work since I have had it for years. Apparently the newest version is subscription based only and runs about $240 a year. I use it because I already had it. I think if I were to have to start from no where, I would certainly try everything I could to figure Gimp out since it is free.


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

I seem to remember someone saying that certain sections of Photoshop are free. But then you can download viruses for free but you'll have to pay in the end.
We use different computers and OS's for different things, windows on two for design and stock separately, Sherees Dell with ubuntu installed not windows, two Ipads for out and about and taking cards, an HP notebook for banking using quickweb so there basically is no OS just I.E fired up directly. a notebook purely for keeping records of everything printed and as a printer driver. and of course Android phones.
I had a hard drive seize once. I was grief stricken for two days, honestly! (another case of a steep learning curve. Back up everything every day externally!)
I find that if you don't hear much about something and it doesn't have a thread of its own it must be pretty good because no-ones moaning about it screwing up again but if it has a community of its own you're in safe hands.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I bought CorelDraw x7 academic version for about $60. I bought that bc my daughter IS a student and I'm not really selling anything right now anyway. I can design in other software I have; I just needed the CD for a way to use my ICC profile and for the file format. I've found that templates and such are always in either CD or Adobe Illustrator format -- that's why I went the route that I did...


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

Can anyone comment on what advantages that Photoshop has over Corel Draw? One being much cheaper I assume that some major advantages to Photoshop Though I agree: Gimp is free...

thank you


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

plainwhiteshirt said:


> Can anyone comment on what advantages that Photoshop has over Corel Draw? One being much cheaper I assume that some major advantages to Photoshop Though I agree: Gimp is free...
> 
> thank you


In the long run corel being a stand alone is cheaper. And corel comes with photo software in it. We use the separate photo software as well. Photo paint is 2 steps to their 5. And all cameras come loaded. I have a CS Photoshop but used it maybe 2 times and Uninstall it. They have a try before you buy on the site.

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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

thank you!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

I have to strongly disagree about the Photoshop vs. Corel Draw debate some of you guys are posting about.

First and foremost as a designer these are not competing programs, they are distinctly different tools for different purposes.

Corel, while actually a _suite of tools_, it is mainly used for vector designs.

Photoshop is for bitmaps/photos.

If you are only using Photoshop you are missing out on the world of scaleable vector graphics.

Technically Corel Draw includes a bitmap editor called Photo-Paint, it probably suffices for most people as a bitmap program starting out, but Photoshop is king of the bitmap world. If you are pushing the edge of bitmap graphics nothing is competing with Photo Shop in terms of actions and plugins, as well as vast amount of resources available on the web. But as I I said many can get by just fine with CD Photo paint.

My workflow includes both Corel Draw and Photoshop, I couldn't do without either. It's like an artist being allowed to use paint brushes but no pens and pencils. 

For some starting out then if you wanted the most bang for your buck then Corel Draw suite can cover your bases as it has both vector and bitmap capability.

I also have Adobe Illustrator (in Creative Suite) but while it is a great program and in many respects superior to Corel Draw as a vector editor, it has poor handling of non-Postscript printers many of us use, unless you have RIP for your printer.

Gimp is ok and it can color manage, but Inkscape doesn't color manage but you could export out your drawing in tif format for example into a bitmap program that does color manage.

Photoshop elements can work for sublimation, but as I mention it is only for bitmaps like the full version of Photoshop.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> I have to strongly disagree about the Photoshop vs. Corel Draw debate some of you guys are posting about.
> 
> First and foremost as a designer these are not competing programs, they are distinctly different tools for different purposes.
> 
> ...


For $85.00 the full version photo paint deals in raster images like photoshop. I have both full and corel dumb down. I use for dyesub and sign. 

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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jfisk3475 said:


> For $85.00 the full version photo paint deals in raster images like photoshop. I have both full and corel dumb down. I use for dyesub and sign.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


Yes, as does the the version of Photo paint also bundled in Corel Draw Suite deal in raster (bitmap) images like Photoshop. The stand alone version has more features.

But I have thousands dollars of investment in actions and plugins that you cannot get for any other program than PS.

But as I mention most can get by with Photo Paint. 

If you survey professional photographers and graphics artists you are going to get a overwhelming consensus on what they use, Photoshop.

But we all use what we can afford and what works for us.

Photoshop is for a hard core graphics person like myself.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Yes, as does the the version of Photo paint also bundled in Corel Draw Suite deal in raster (bitmap) images like Photoshop. The stand alone version has more features.
> 
> But I have thousands dollars of investment in actions and plugins that you cannot get for any other program than PS.
> 
> ...


Yes photographers use PS but for general raster edit for coffee mug or t shirt. Starting with PS is a big hit on the wallet.

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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jfisk3475 said:


> Yes photographers use PS but for general raster edit for coffee mug or t shirt. Starting with PS is a big hit on the wallet.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


Photographers, Web Designers, and Digital Painters use Photoshop. And yes, it is a hit on the wallet. But you get what you pay for.


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## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

Under the new "Creative Cloud" program you get both Lightroom and Photoshop for only $9.95 a month.


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> I have to strongly disagree about the Photoshop vs. Corel Draw debate some of you guys are posting about.
> 
> First and foremost as a designer these are not competing programs, they are distinctly different tools for different purposes.
> 
> ...


thank you Mike and all for helping me understand the next issue: raster vs Vector: 

I desired to put photos (best as raster) and simple designs (best as Vector) on my shirts. Now. So Mike the Corel with its phot paint will. Suffice. 

Next issue: Does my WF7110 allow me to print both vectors and bitmap images the same way? I am a little confused about non post script printers and the need for a RIP. Do you sugest that I dont need a RIP with the Corel suite. Doesn't the RIP come WITH the software? 

Thank you!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

plainwhiteshirt said:


> thank you Mike and all for helping me understand the next issue: raster vs Vector:
> 
> I desired to put photos (best as raster) and simple designs (best as Vector) on my shirts. Now. So Mike the Corel with its phot paint will. Suffice.
> 
> ...


A RIP is usually used with much larger format ink jets. Many RIPs will allow you to print directly in CMYK and can accept Postscript input. RIPS can allow you to have more control over your printer then the standard Epson driver.

A RIP is a printer utility, you will "print" to it as though it is your printer and then it controls the printer.

But for desktop printers like the WF7110 (I have one) we don't really have that option. Might be some RIPS out there that handle the smaller printers, but hard to justify paying $1500 or so and using it on a $150 printer that might only last a couple of years.

Corel Draw doesn't require a RIP, but you could still use one if you choose. Few printers if any actually require a RIP, it just extends the printers capability and allows you to fully utilize programs like Adobe Illustrator that are designed for commercial printing and have more control spooling and managing "print jobs".

The 7110 can print both raster and vector, Corel and your Epson printer driver handle that for you.

So just an brief explanation, on the desktop using the WF7110 and similar printers we don't need RIP software or postscript.

Corel Draw will give you enough graphic tools starting out, bitmap and vector, and some clipart as well.


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> A RIP is usually used with much larger format ink jets. Many RIPs will allow you to print directly in CMYK and can accept Postscript input. RIPS can allow you to have more control over your printer then the standard Epson driver.
> 
> A RIP is a printer utility, you will "print" to it as though it is your printer and then it controls the printer.
> 
> ...


Again thanks Mike - this is making sense now. As I have Gimp in my posession and my wife uses it a little bit already can it produce BOTH rasters and vectors OR do we have to make the move eventually anyhow so why not know? I dont mind going to Corel. 

Thank you for your time!


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

plainwhiteshirt said:


> Again thanks Mike - this is making sense now. As I have Gimp in my posession and my wife uses it a little bit already can it produce BOTH rasters and vectors OR do we have to make the move eventually anyhow so why not know? I dont mind going to Corel.
> 
> Thank you for your time!


We have 2 epson 7010 and print direct from photo paint and corel. Out templates are in corel. Conde has a lot of templates but the are CDR and AI formate. The CDR can be used in inkskape. We used Inkscape for a while starting out.

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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

plainwhiteshirt said:


> Again thanks Mike - this is making sense now. As I have Gimp in my posession and my wife uses it a little bit already can it produce BOTH rasters and vectors OR do we have to make the move eventually anyhow so why not know? I dont mind going to Corel.
> 
> Thank you for your time!



GIMP is for bitmaps only. Inkscape is a free vector program but you can't color manage in Inkscape so you have to export out into a program that can after you create your vector drawing.

Inkscape can handle bitmaps as "objects' like Corel can, but the bitmap tools are too basic for any serious bitmap editing. It does a decent job with bitmap "objects" that have been finalized prior to importing into Inkscape.

Corel has better bitmap tools inside the vector program itself than Inkscape does and also you can link your bitmaps to Photopaint and edit them and not leave Corel Draw. 

For example you can setup to double click the bitmap object in Corel and then it opens the bitmap in Photopaint, edit it there, then when you finish it brings the edited bitmap back into Corel right where is was before you edited it.


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

We use PS (bitmap/raster) and IL (vector) and they are two totally different tools and are needed in the arsenal of design. I cannot work without either one. RIP's are generally used on printers larger than desktop to linearize and minimize ink limits along with cost proofing. We use Caldera for our RIP as we are Mac based but Wasatch and Ergo round out the RIP's for PC's. Onyx is in there somewhere, also.


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## plainwhiteshirt (Jun 4, 2007)

Corel Draw it is....and then this thought...

My goal is to create designs for sublimation printing both photo realistic and vector style designs
I would also like to create designs for plastisol heat transfers. 

Now am i right in assuming most plastisol transfer makers want a vector file? However, if I am doing a CMYK plastisol design do i then use a raster file? 

will corel draw allow both subliamating and screen print designs?

Thank you!!


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

> [quote name="plainwhiteshirt" post=3422634]Again thanks Mike - this is making sense now. As I have Gimp in my posession and my wife uses it a little bit already can it produce BOTH rasters and vectors OR do we have to make the move eventually anyhow so why not know? I dont mind going to Corel.
> 
> Thank you for your time!



GIMP is for bitmaps only. Inkscape is a free vector program but you can't color manage in Inkscape so you have to export out into a program that can after you create your vector drawing.

Inkscape can handle bitmaps as "objects' like Corel can, but the bitmap tools are too basic for any serious bitmap editing. It does a decent job with bitmap "objects" that have been finalized prior to importing into Inkscape.

Corel has better bitmap tools inside the vector program itself than Inkscape does and also you can link your bitmaps to Photopaint and edit them and not leave Corel Draw. 

For example you can setup to double click the bitmap object in Corel and then it opens the bitmap in Photopaint, edit it there, then when you finish it brings the edited bitmap back into Corel right where is was before you edited it.[/QUOTE]
It can. Ryonet has a video on how to do it.

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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

plainwhiteshirt said:


> Corel Draw it is....and then this thought...
> 
> My goal is to create designs for sublimation printing both photo realistic and vector style designs
> I would also like to create designs for plastisol heat transfers.
> ...


Yes Corel can work for screen printing.

It depends on the plastisol supplier as to the file types they accept, I usually send CMYK (vector) but I have seen some that would accept RGB TIFF (raster) format.

Over the years these suppliers have made getting artwork to them easier to do.

Corel can handle create color separated files with registration marks if your plastisol provider requires that. I"m not a screen printing guru but I send out my artwork on occasion to have plastisols made.

There is a ton of material on working in Corel for screen printing.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_yl...ing+screen+printing+art+in+Corel&fr=yfp-t-679

We also have a forum member here that has a lot of tutorials and add-ins for Corel specific to t-shirt making and screen printing.

Corel DRAW tutorial

advancedtshirts.com - advancedtshirts.com


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

> It can. Ryonet has a video on how to do it.



I presume you are referring to Inkscape Color Management?

I'm not sure what you are referring to but Inkscape has never had the ICC profile options finished in it. There are options there but was never finished.

I have it at my work for technical illustration and at home. I have went thru every possible setting in the color management section and actually tried to use, that along with my web research leads me to the conclusion that Inkscape does work with ICC printing profiles. 

Even assigning a profile to an object (not a printing ICC to the printer but assigning a ICC to a specific object) you have to kludge it to work. This would be the same in Photoshop as using the printing sublimation profile as the working space of the document, That dog don't hunt.

Adding color-profile element - Inkscape Wiki

It is possible to use the Windows color management system to FORCE an ICC printing profile to the printer but never gives the same results as a good graphic app can do directly. As such Inkscape still is not color managing the printer as required to sublimate, Windows intercepts the printing spool and force filters it through the ICC.

I think perhaps you meant Conde? Because Ryonet has nothing on this, Either on Youtub or on it's own site. Conde has a video on how to use a program that doesn't color manage with sublimation ... via the Windows color system.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Ryonet/search?query=inkscape

https://www.youtube.com/user/Ryonet/search?query=color+managment

No returns period for color management.

I'm confident that if you actually try and setup Inkscape directly inside for printer ICC management you will find as I did it doesn't work. 

Some have been able to get it to manage the display enough to allow soft proofing, but this is not the same as color managing your printing..

You can also read about it on Inkscapes Wiki ...

InkscapeColor - Inkscape Wiki


The bold and color emphasis is my markup


"What is "Color"?
That is a very good question. In Inkscape, color is basically RGB value triplets. But in order to get precise, and to enable the same color to be seen on different computers, the general idea of color spaces comes into play.

A color space determines how a tuple of data values (e.g., an RGB triplet) maps to a well-defined color (and vice-versa). In software, this is commonly achieved through the use of an ICC profile. In ICC profiles, well-defined colors are defined in either the La*b* color space or the CIEXYZ color space. These are known as profile connector spaces.

To illustrate how this works, consider the case where you need an sRGB graphic displayed on your profiled LCD monitor. The sRGB profile is used to convert the RGB tuple in the document into a La*b* tuple. Your monitor's profile is then used to convert the La*b* tuple to the RGB tuple that will be delivered to your monitor.

This same technique for displaying a graphic is used if your graphic is defined in the Adobe RGB 1998 color space, a CMYK colorspace defined by a print industry standard profile (e.g. FOGRA or SWOP), or a custom profile tailored to a particular printer and output medium.

A common color space for the Internet is sRGB. Adobe and HP created this color space to model the behavior of a typical computer monitor so that in the absence of any color management, the raw RGB values piped to your display hardware will appear more-or-less as the designer intended. For this reason, SVG defaults to sRGB. Likewise, CSS supports only sRGB. As a working space for artwork not targeted exclusively at web browsers, sRGB is a poor choice due to its limited gamut.

And then there are spot colors. Many designers (and thus users of vector art packages) often specify spot colors that are precise matches from a book, such as Pantone named colors. The main thing about these is that they are supposed to be fixed single colors of a known appearance.

*So, off hand it seems that it would be good if Inkscape would support:

sRGB color
spot color
RGB and CMYK colorspaces defined by ICC profiles*

There are two different problems: firstly, displaying a composite image composed of several spot colours. This is easy - just represent the spot colours with their rgb approximations. The only work is at the interface and colour lookup phase - implementing schemes or palettes solves this straight off. The second problem is generating PostScript or png with the colours separated correctly. PostScript handles this readily with the /DeviceN color space, whereas output to PNG would involve masking occluded artwork. A more sophisticated approach would need to address trapping and overprinting.

Color Management
*For Inkscape to be accepted in the print world, there must be good reliable support for both RGBA and CMYK color spaces. At the moment, the easiest way to get Inkscape SVG into CMYK color spaces is via import into Scribus or using Acrobat Distiller on Win32. Export to eps and conversion using perl script pscol from http://dionysos.mpch-mainz.mpg.de/~joeckel/pscol/ is also possible.*

Scribus and The Gimp both use littlecms for a color mangement module for doing "soft previews" of RGBA color into a CMYK (print) space. At some point, adding color management support should be discussed.

There is a list just starting on freedesktop.org on this topic. Details to be announced soon."


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

Ryonet had a video on color Sep with corel and Photoshop. 

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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jfisk3475 said:


> Ryonet had a video on color Sep with corel and Photoshop.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


Thx. You weren't specific but this clears it up.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Thx. You weren't specific but this clears it up.


My bad. Next year I will get better at it.

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## noblehaus (Feb 21, 2011)

we use Wasatch as a rip, supports 4 printers


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

I think we went a little off here. The cobra wf does not need a rip. We use their 7010 with corel and photo paint. When you get into the wide format the you may need a rip like onyx or flexi. Get the profiles from Richard and he will help with loading them in your computer. Really not hard at all. 2 minutes you're ready to print

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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

noblehaus said:


> we use Wasatch as a rip, supports 4 printers


The OP is using small format.


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