# Water based ink - Can u print any design ?



## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

Hi,

I want to know if you can print any design (spot colors) with water based ink, or is there any limitations compare to plastisol ?

In fact I wonder if I run a business if I have to print water based only, or if I have to do both. (plastisol + water based ink)

Thks


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Yes, you can print about anything with WB inks. It just may be a little more difficult and include an extra screen. 

On dark colored shirts, you may have to discharge the color before laying down the inks.

Here's the big question, why are you interested in printing with WB inks?


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## gerry (Oct 4, 2006)

jgabby said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want to know if you can print any design (spot colors) with water based ink, or is there any limitations compare to plastisol ?
> 
> ...


Ijust recently printed w/plastisol for the first time and what a pleasure it was .
I love wb. but it is a pain in the ... I will print wb for some jobs .. but only some jobs


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

jgabby said:


> I want to know if you can print any design (spot colors) with water based ink


Pretty much.



jgabby said:


> In fact I wonder if I run a business if I have to print water based only, or if I have to do both. (plastisol + water based ink)


You don't have to do either. You can run a business doing just waterbased, just plastisol, or a mixture of both.


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

neato said:


> Yes, you can print about anything with WB inks. It just may be a little more difficult and include an extra screen.
> 
> On dark colored shirts, you may have to discharge the color before laying down the inks.
> 
> Here's the big question, why are you interested in printing with WB inks?



Hi,

I want to use WB ink for environmental issue, as there is less hazardous chemicals involved. (based on what I read on this forum...)
Maybe I am wrong...

Thks


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## jundogg (Jul 20, 2007)

im into WB inks as well
it's because i think and read here that plastisols got a lot of chemicals that goes along with it. 
with WB, all you need is water - that's not harmful compared to chemicals. 

i wonder why other printers prefer plastisols? 
can anyone give a brief comparison about those two inks???


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## monstermerch (Apr 23, 2007)

Most plastisols are cheaper than WB, can remain open to air, are generally odor free, and have been the standard for a long time now. I prefer plastisols because we've done it for so long and have a good system. The prep time for screens is minimal. There CAN be more chemicals involved but only if you choose to have them. I operate with only Franmar products and I use 3 chemicals total (on-press ink wash / stencil + ink remover combo / dehaze). With WB you still have the screen reclaim process so that would put me down to only 2 chemicals, not a huge jump.

I can stop in the middle of a run if necessary and come back to it as well with plastisol.

Water Based inks will eat through most standard emulsion so you need an extra diazo agent which shortens the shelf life of most emulsions and takes a little extra time. On top of that you must re-expose or harden the emulsion prior to printing (not really a big deal there but it is specific and must be done or else you'll have a mess on your hands). You also have to coat screens the opposite of how you would for plastisol. You want to build a decent micron level on the squeegee side vs. the print side (or so the Murakami rep explained to me)

My main drawback with WB is that on long runs (5000+) I have to pull the screens from time to time and wash them out with water again because the ink has slowly dried in the screen. (speaking of which, is that normal?)You can't run fans in the area because it will speed up the drying process 

The benefits though are that you can get a substantially softer hand with water-based inks than you can with plastisol. You CAN use additives like curable reducer and soft-hand extender to plastisol and acheive a soft hand but for a true soft hand print WB is the way to go. 

I personally feel that a discharge underbase w/ reduced plastisol through 220+ mesh is cheaper and easier than doing all out water based and acheives the same desired effects.

The main draw to Water Based printing is that there's a huge growing market for it and there is an added value to the final product so the margins on it can be slightly higher than doing plastisol.

It is a little more work and more information that you must keep stored in your head.


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## azoton (May 9, 2007)

Monstermerch: thanks for sharing info - good stuff. One question (appropriate thread jacking  )

You said


> I personally feel that a discharge underbase w/ reduced plastisol through 220+ mesh is cheaper and easier than doing all out water based and acheives the same desired effects.


Why the discharge underbase? and do you do this type of underbase for all colored shirts? or just for the darks.....


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## monstermerch (Apr 23, 2007)

oh yeah, just namely on dark garments where an underbase is necessary. Forgot to mention that.


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## azoton (May 9, 2007)

> oh yeah, just namely on dark garments where an underbase is necessary.


That was my first thought but didn't know if maybe the discharge process helped contribute to the "soft hand" so I thought I'd ask. Thanks.


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## dominici (Apr 22, 2007)

because of environmental concerns, I also wanted to use waterbased inks but my printer told me that, although they initially quoted me for it, they later said it wouldnt work even nearly as well as plastisols and would hardly come out on dark garments at all. I was really disappointed as I had always wanted to use WB inks. On reading this thread, am I right to be a little suspicious?


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah, waterbased inks have changed A LOT in the last couple of years. There is now a line of inks that does allow printing directly on darks, without discharging. Of course there is a hand, but it's way softer than plastisols on darks. And much nicer to use than discharge.


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## dominici (Apr 22, 2007)

what does hand mean? How soft it is?


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

dominici said:


> what does hand mean? How soft it is?


 Yes.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

Phillip, out of curiosity, with the higher opacity waterbased inks you mention, do you print-flash-print as with plastisols to gain opacity? Does it leave a matte finish on the ink (unlike the glossy look plastisols tend to give)? And do you mind sharing the name of the manufacturer? I'd like to give waterbased on darks a try. My biggest complaint with plastisols is trying to eliminate the glossy look when printing on darks due to the amount of ink you have to put down, even through finer meshes.


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## bok (Mar 17, 2007)

The only reason for useing WB is that there is no fibrilation. This is my bigest problem with plastisol, and I mean bigest, I tried everything and still have the problems.


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## mothertongues (Aug 8, 2005)

What is fibrilation? I've never heard the term. Thanks!


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

Do you any process color with waterbased? That's what I've found to be the worst for fibrillation.


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## jundogg (Jul 20, 2007)

man, im still thinking if ill switch to plastisol or stay with WB.

or maybe it's because of our location. WB inks are readily available at the local bookstore. they dont have plastisols there that you can buy that's in a quart, unlike WB. some even dont have emulsion. 

the craft store is far from our house to check for plastisols. that's why im still sticking with WB inks. oh my...


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

tpitman said:


> with the higher opacity waterbased inks you mention, do you print-flash-print as with plastisols to gain opacity?


Yes.



tpitman said:


> Does it leave a matte finish on the ink (unlike the glossy look plastisols tend to give)?


Yes.



tpitman said:


> And do you mind sharing the name of the manufacturer?


There is more than one manufacturer doing good opaque waterbased inks, it depends on what is available in your area.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

mothertongues said:


> What is fibrilation? I've never heard the term. Thanks!


It's when the fibres stick up/show through the ink (and it can happen with waterbased too).


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Sorry for the late reply.

Yes, you do p/f/p with opaque WB. It is a very matte finish unlike plastisol.

I'm using Matsui brand inks. I'm going to be printing some samples of dark shirts either today or tomorrow. I'll post the results.


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## emjay777 (Jun 4, 2007)

Plastisol Vs water-based
http://www.pneac.org/sheets/screen/Plastisolvwaterbase.pdf

good info


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

This is a good link...

But with some reducer added to plastisol, you can have a WB feeling, right ?


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## Sydison (Sep 4, 2008)

You said: "There is now a line of inks that does allow printing directly on darks, without discharging." Could you tell me what brand that is?


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

No reducer or extender will give you a waterbase feel.Learn about both ink systems.Plastisol is the easiest to use and if you're really eco-conscious you can handle and use the ink with out harm to the enviroment if your responsible with how you handle it.
I believe that most people think that waterbase is safer,you must read all the info with any product.
Personally I prefer WB but I use plastisol 99% of the time.Plus I'am not as limited with my color range.


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## Sydison (Sep 4, 2008)

I am a newbie and have only tried Plastisol. I want to try water based as I want the soft feeling - as if the design is part of the fabric. But from what I've read, I would need to use a special emulsion is that correct? I would also have to be diligent about screen clogging, and would have no way to cure the ink except to leave them flat for a few days. Did I get that right? Is there anything else I need to get that is different from Plastisol?


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## ukscreenprinter (Nov 18, 2007)

If you have a flash curer for your plastisol,then cure waterbased the same way,just lift the tshirt from the platten to allow the water to evaporate as steam.Remember always refer to your ink manufacturers guidelines on curing and wash a test before sending any to your customers.


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

The answer to the emulsion question is yes.Ulano WR is good for WB.I have also used Autosol hardner for my bigger auto runs.You will have to post expose your screens so they hold up.Autosol hardner is a product you apply to the screen,not a emulsion just to be clear.


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## OlympiaScreen (Jul 26, 2008)

to get rid of the glossy look of plastisol:

Add a VERY small amount of puff additive to your ink. About 3%. This will give you a matted finish.


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## garrison81 (Oct 23, 2008)

monstermerch said:


> Water Based inks will eat through most standard emulsion so you need an extra diazo agent which shortens the shelf life of most emulsions and takes a little extra time. On top of that you must re-expose or harden the emulsion prior to printing (not really a big deal there but it is specific and must be done or else you'll have a mess on your hands).


Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but this hasn't been my experience at all. Ulano emulsions last plenty long, don't get eaten up by WB inks and don't have to be re-exposed before printing.

My apologies if I'm not clear.


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