# Barudan, Tajima or Happy: Specific Questions



## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

Hello Forum!

I need help fast figuring out which machine to buy! I'm new to embroidery, but I have built up a lot of clientel for left chest logos and school uniforms. Ive been outsourcing my work for over 18 months, but now its time to make a move and get my own machine. 98% of my work will be left chest logos/names for polo shirts (pique), school uniforms (jersey knit), and woven shirts. So all i care about is SUPERB STITCH QUALITY & SMALL LETTERING CAPIBILITIES. I've heard many people say small lettering is part digitizing, part machine, part garments, and part thread/smaller needles. Whichever machine i choose will be set up optimally for this sole purpose. I've researched 3 machines over the past year and im down to: Tajima Neo Plus, Happy HCD-1501 & the Barudan Elite Pro II.

I've attended a ISS Show and took it a step furhter and recently had samples of my current designs ran and sent back to me on all 3 machines by each of their respective salesmen. Most of the logos had small lettering and to my surprise the Happy looked the best, followed by Barudan, then Tajima. So here lies my question. If the Tajima's sew outs looked so poor with the smaller lettering and its a premium machine in this market, was there user error in the machine set up? I use an outside company for my digitizing and i have never had a problem with their sew outs. Keep in mind, i sent them all embroidery files of my most frequent designs from my current customers. 

Next question, is Happy really a Superior Machine? If it is, why is a 4 head, 15 needle $8000 cheaper than a comparable Tajima or Barudan? Is it as durable as the other two machines? Where is it built? My embroider uses them and his work is acceptable, but he has had some issues with smaller lettering and loops in the designs. I've been talking to the Happy rep and he said that the lettering issue is isolated to my current embroider's technique, settings, etc. And i'm inclined to believe him because of the nice samples he sent back to me.

I've heard Barudan is the best in small lettering, but their control pad looks outdated and hard to use to me. Without finding an active, talkative forum/help group its hard to get any specific questions answered about it.

I've heard mostly good things about Tajima, but my sew outs have me scared of them for some reason.

My last question is can any or all of these 3 machines handle a load of 1500-2000 pieces a month for 6-8 months until we can upgrade to a 4 or 6 head. We know long hours will be involved! 

I know i ramble a lot but i wanted to touch on everything!

If anyone can offer any insight to my situation, it would be greatly appreciated. We're looking to lease or finance in the next few weeks.

Thanks


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

given unlimited resources i would go with a tajima 12, 6 or 4 head. if you need to save bux then go with one of the other brands but the smallest would be a 4 head. you cannot make enough bank on a single head. 

but, why do this if you are successful now? doing this for production is a big task and a big expense. whatever you machine cost is, figure another 10% for supplies to start out.


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## abchung (Jul 16, 2009)

Tajima and Barudan are great brands.
I don't know if it is true or not, people say barudan gives better lettering thus we bought Barudan. We have several barudan machines and are extremely happy with them.

Of course the more head the better for production, but you must realise that if you put all your money into one machine and when you need to do samples, you have to stop production to make your samples.

Good Luck.

P.S the above person is correct, I think the minimum head is 4, because a single head won't be economical.


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## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

binki said:


> given unlimited resources i would go with a tajima 12, 6 or 4 head. if you need to save bux then go with one of the other brands but the smallest would be a 4 head. you cannot make enough bank on a single head.
> 
> but, why do this if you are successful now? doing this for production is a big task and a big expense. whatever you machine cost is, figure another 10% for supplies to start out.


Well my resources aren't unlimited yet, but at minimum I'm sure I can get financing on a single head to get me started. The school season will be here in August, so I want to get a machine now to learn the ins and outs of it and to also get a jump on some of the uniforms so I won't be under so much pressure to produce in August. The reason I want to get a machine for myself is obvious, the bulk of my profit is going out of the window to the company I contract my work out to. Also I don't have the flexibility to try new things for my customers and myself. I have very, very talented graphic artist around me and we also want to start a small scale clothing line as soon. As well as having cheer & football customers that want to stray away from the norm at times. I also make graphics and Its counter productive to pay someone to do my work and not have the flexibility to try new things! I left out the fact that I have a lot of screen printing business that I contract out as well. My thoughts are, its easier and less of a headache to learn embroidery (not the digitizing element, we send this off to another company), I can start this retain more of my capital then use that money to upgrade to larger embroidery machines as well as purchase some good used screen printing equipment. My goal is owning my own shop. We have plotters, heat presses and some of the other equipment to make this happen a full service shop. I can't spend another school season paying $3.50-$4 per garmet on embroidery on 2800-4000 uniforms, it'll kill me mentally. That's too much profit that could be staying in house. I have guanteed contracts so the unknown in embroidery is worth the risk to me.

Thanks for your reply. Just curious why Tajima of Buradan? Everyone keeps saying they have the best small letter?


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I started off with a single head Tajima & after that was paid off I purchased a 4 head Barudan. Both machine are great. If I would have had the business to start with, I would have purchased the 4 head when I started my business. 
If you try to do this on a single head you will not be able to price it out at $3.50-$4 and make money. Let's say you have 100 unifoms with a 10K stitch logo. You're charging $4 & you can sew 4 an hour on a single head. That's means you're making $16/hr, less your expenses.


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## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

JAF said:


> I started off with a single head Tajima & after that was paid off I purchased a 4 head Barudan. Both machine are great. If I would have had the business to start with, I would have purchased the 4 head when I started my business.
> If you try to do this on a single head you will not be able to price it out at $3.50-$4 and make money. Let's say you have 100 unifoms with a 10K stitch logo. You're charging $4 & you can sew 4 an hour on a single head. That's means you're making $16/hr, less your expenses.


Thanks for your reply Judy. I was stating that I currently pay $3.50 to $4 per uniform to get the logos stitched on them from someone else. I was saying I don't want to give that much of my profit away to my current contract embroider any more. So if I understand you correctly, are you saying with the current business I have, it would make more sense to purchase a 4 head if I can afford it and/or get financing? And have you ever noticed any difference between the smaller text that was sewn by your different machines? I really pride myself on quality in all aspects of my biz, so that is the main concern. Followed by durability, ease of use, ease of maintenance and cost. The reason I put cost last is because either I'm approved for 4 head or I'm approved for a single head, either way I'm very confident I'll be approved. The price difference between the single heads is not great enough to be a concern. The problem comes in if I'm approved for a larger amount, which 4 head to buy. The Happy machine is $8000 cheaper than the Tajima and Barudan. And I liked how the my sew outs came back from the Happy saleman. I just keep hearing whispers of them not being as study as the other 2 brands.


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## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

abchung said:


> Tajima and Barudan are great brands.
> I don't know if it is true or not, people say barudan gives better lettering thus we bought Barudan. We have several barudan machines and are extremely happy with them.
> 
> Of course the more head the better for production, but you must realise that if you put all your money into one machine and when you need to do samples, you have to stop production to make your samples.
> ...


How easy are they to perform the most common functions and may i ask whats the newest model you have? Thanks


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## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

JAF said:


> I started off with a single head Tajima & after that was paid off I purchased a 4 head Barudan. Both machine are great. If I would have had the business to start with, I would have purchased the 4 head when I started my business.
> If you try to do this on a single head you will not be able to price it out at $3.50-$4 and make money. Let's say you have 100 unifoms with a 10K stitch logo. You're charging $4 & you can sew 4 an hour on a single head. That's means you're making $16/hr, less your expenses.


I have another question Judy. Would you prefer one machine over the other when it comes down to ease of use. And may i ask which machines you own? Thanks!


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

My tajima is 15yrs & the Barudan is 8yrs. I wouldn't pick one over the other. 

You need to decide which machine will meet your needs and your budget.

For good small lettering or any design it isn't only the machine. You need good digitizing and in my opinion, you need to understand tensions.


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## a123bonnie (Sep 1, 2008)

I have a friend who bought a new Happy 4 head and was soooo impresses with their service. She said that when ever things went wrong with the machine a tech was there within 48 hours to fix it. I said "how many times have you had to have service in the 6 months that you have had the machine" she said "4 times so I know how prompt they are". My answer was " I have had Barudans for 20 years and have never had to have a technition out to work on any of them. NEVER. So, in all of the years that I have been in the embroidery buisiness I still think the Barudan is the Cadillac of embroidery machines. I also know that the Tajimas are great machines. The only problem I have with them is that there are so many adjustments for everything and when everything is in place you get GREAT embroidery but when one is out.....not so good. You may need to have a tech handy for that but it's not a big problem of course. So, in my opinion you can't do better than the Barudan right from the start including the great back-up support from the company.
Good luck,
Bonnie


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

LAMECH, you said: _"I can't spend another school season paying $3.50-$4 per garment on embroidery on 2800-4000 uniforms, it'll kill me mentally."_

Let's see: You are talking about $9800 - $16000/school season. (2800 x $3.50 - 4000 x $4.00)

If you'd purchase a machine for appr. $15K, how much could you save from your actual $3.50/garment expense?

With 1 head, you can do 6-10 garments per hour (maybe less). If you would save say 50% of the $3.50/garment cost (you probably won't be able to!) you would work for an average $10.50 - $17.50/hour for about 300 - 600 hours. (And you will have a monthly leasing expense for a few years.)

Are you sure you want this?

Sorry for being the devil's advocate here, but I think - in this situation - this is what can help.

By the way, we have a new Tajima Neo, and we love it. But we are not working for $10.50 - $17.50/hour with it. Embroidery is not our main focus so we don't mind to skip (or outsource) the $3.50/garment type of jobs.

I hope I didn't discourage you.


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## sewexclusive (Mar 14, 2009)

Had both Tajima 6 head and Happy machine. Happy was the better of the two. Now I have Melco XTS and have several linked together. I can run the same job or seperate jobs. My production has increased.
Give them a look mine run great. Right now they are running 12 hour days.


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## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

api said:


> LAMECH, you said: _"I can't spend another school season paying $3.50-$4 per garment on embroidery on 2800-4000 uniforms, it'll kill me mentally."_
> 
> Let's see: You are talking about $9800 - $16000/school season. (2800 x $3.50 - 4000 x $4.00)
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response! And your right, all aspects of this move have to be considered. I think there are 3 factors that may have been over looked by people reviewing my situation and my decision to lease/finance a machine. The first is I have at least 2 months to produce the uniforms, we will deliver them a few hundred at a time from Mid June - late August. Second, I have year round clients that need embroidered goods, school is just a guaranteed high volume time for me. Third, the $3.50 - $4 i speak about is not my profit from the uniforms just what i pay to get them embroidered. What im trying to do is keep all profit, not just the smaller end which is left over minus the garment and embroidery fees. I've been blessed enough to have enough screen printing and embroidery clients built up from be technically just being a broker/salesman/middle man (i outsource screen printing and embroidery currently). This is my good paying full time job, now I want to get a bigger piece of my own pie.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

OK, let's talk about the 3 factors:

1.) You have 2 months to deliver, so you won't run out of time. But with 1 head, it still takes 300-600 hours to finish the job. (Unfortunately you cannot do anything else during this time because you have to do the garment preparation and the finishing too.)

2.) If you have year round clients, you will realize soon, that you are busy year round, but - with the 1 head machine on a saturated embroidery market and depressed prices - you cannot make enough money. You will need some SPECIAL product to be able to charge enough. (Just my opinion.)

3.) If you outsource your embroidery job, you pay $3.50 - $4.00/garment, but in this case *you don't have to do anything.* THIS is the amount you can keep in your pocket if you start stitching. Of course you won't be able to save all $3.50, since you will have expenses, and also, your TIME will be spent in front of the embroidery machine.

OK. I shut up now. 

My suggestions (I could be wrong):

A.) *Do one more realistic calculation before you buy an embroidery machine.*

B.) If you buy one, try to *get at least a 4-head* (or even better, 4 x 1 head in a network.)

C.) Choose from Barudan or Tajima (you cannot go wrong with them) and chose the one *which has better support close to your location. *

D.) Save money for accessories (Mighty hoop, treads, backings etc.) and be prepared to purchase (and learn) an embroidery software. You will want that freedom down the road. 

Good luck!

If my explanations are not clear, I apologize. English is still a "work in progress" for me.


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## nalob (Jun 23, 2011)

I think it would be a good idea to do the embroidery in house if its possible. You would make enough profit to pay off the machine. I think 1500-2000 pieces a month would more than cover the cost of the machine. The extra $3.50-4 would have the machine paid off in no time...
But on the other hand if you did buy a machine you should outsource till you know that your embroidery quality is atleast on par with what you are already outsourcing. With that much items being embroidered each month and the steadyness of these jobs you should do good.


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## a123bonnie (Sep 1, 2008)

I agree with API entirely. I would think that if you do go with a single head you would want to use it for monograms and smaller orders that you can charge much more for. You would charge 8.00 to 12.00 for a monogram or a name. You would charge somewhere around 8.00 t0 12.00 for a crest size logo for a small company, maybe somewhere between 50.00 and 100.00 for a jacket back, etc. Small orders is a nitch of its own I think. It's not that easy to get 6 or 7 of a logo done for a very small company so they usually appreciate you. Usually these are repeat customers and can make a great business. On your big orders.....you can't charge those amounts for 1000 garments. You will have to charge less per garment. You will be way ahead if you outsorce your big orders and only do orders under 100. You will go crazy trying to get out 1000 garments. You will need space to stack,count, package and all that goes with it. If something does go wrong with the machine......you are grounded until it is taken care of. Think about it, if you outsorce 1000 garments and make 1.00 each, you have made 1000.00 for just directing the traffic and saving your machine and your time so that you can be out there getting more screen print orders or more machine orders. If you are trying to do 1000 garments you won't have time to get out and drum up customers. If you think you do want to do the bigger orders than you will definately need to go with at least a 4 head. 
Good Luck!
Bonnie


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

2000 pieces/month, 24000 pieces/year with a single head is *90 garments/day, 11-12 garments/hour.*

It is more than a full time job, it is a galley-slave school.


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## nalob (Jun 23, 2011)

api said:


> 2000 pieces/month, 24000 pieces/year with a single head is *90 garments/day, 11-12 garments/hour.*
> 
> It is more than a full time job, it is a galley-slave school.


haha...I totaly agree. was just saying that he should do good if he decides to do it in house. But as stated from others here you should definetly look into atleast a 4 head machine.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

I agree. And also worth considering the learning curve of the embroidery production. It looks sooo easy when *somebody else* does it.


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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

api said:


> your TIME will be spent in front of the embroidery machine.


This!
Api hit the nail on the head with this quote! If you do anything less than a 4 head embroidery machine they'll find you there one morning at the machine and a self inflicted bullet in your head. Seriously, I would look for a better deal on the embroidery outsourcing. I'd rather make .05 a garment just directing traffic than having to sit in front of a machine for most of the day to keep my head above water. 

Also, all it takes is a few good errors and your service tech will cost you plenty of 'profit'. I can tell you, I have a single head and even doing a few hundred shirts is awful. Once you get a few going really good you think you can walk away for a quick 4 minute break but then almost magical you'll get a thread break. Or a needle will break and the machine won't catch it till you have a few dozen jagged holes in your shirt. Skip the headache of slow embroidery and work on your buying and prices. I know you can get your outsourcing cheaper if you start shaking the trees. 

And none of this is even thinking about the learning curve to get started. Embroidery machines don't just churn out great results, they've got to be constantly tuned and tested. Every single bobbin change creates a potential big change in tension and potential for error. Embroidery is a LOT of hands on work.


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## beanie357 (Mar 27, 2011)

For us it was Tajima or Barudan. We went with Tajima. We've been happy with the results. Generally all 3 will run well when new. Tajima holds their value best. Suggest a 2 head to start. More business will find it's way if you get out there. Put a value on your time for production purposes. Service in your area is important as well. We have a 4 and 2 singles. Wish we had a 6 and another single.


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## sitzerlandwyo (Jan 20, 2011)

we have 2 single head brother pr series been great to start with but have outgrown them fast. Found ourselves with the Baruban rep on Friday. We have looked at tajima they are also a great machine but have a Barudan dealer very close to us. I agree I have heard Happy are good machines but keeping them running is an issue. I have a brother pr with 500 million stitches on it and it has been very good for not being a commercial machine. Consider leasing or getting a used machine from equipused.com might get more for your money and some warranty


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## sitzerlandwyo (Jan 20, 2011)

beanie357 said:


> For us it was Tajima or Barudan. We went with Tajima. We've been happy with the results. Generally all 3 will run well when new. Tajima holds their value best. Suggest a 2 head to start. More business will find it's way if you get out there. Put a value on your time for production purposes. Service in your area is important as well. We have a 4 and 2 singles. Wish we had a 6 and another single.


We agree you have to put a value on your time. We have a set per stitch rate and minimum charge that we set or we wont turn a machine on. In our local market we have 3 shops all 3 of us charge the same rate per stitch and minimun but give slightly different discounts for order size. This has helped all or us be more profitable and has drasticly reduced the time wasted on customers trying to bid us against each other. Also suppliers can make a big difference free shipping can save you 100's on large orders


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Just to touch back, Tajima is top of the line. We went with an SWF 4 head because it was $14K less than the Tajima. That allowed us to purchase a Merrow machine, an engraver, a graphtec cutter, a hoopmaster with all the accessories, a full set of magna-hoops for both the 4 head and single head and a new laser printer. 

The most we ever did with the single head for a single order was 250pc in 2 locations and it took forever to get done. Once we had the 4 head in I could hardly keep up with it hooping shirts while it ran. We have effectively tripled our capapcity, maybe more, and can make short work out of large jobs. 

Now, Tajima, SWF and others will try to sell you multiple single heads that operate as one machine but the cost of a 4 head is less than 3 single heads with the networking software. Even getting a 2 head if you can't afford the 4 head would be better. 

Knowing then what I know now, I would have skipped the single head and just purchased the 4 head.


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## LAMECH (Sep 13, 2010)

I thank you all! I'm reading everything i can find inside and outside this forum, as well as all of the replies here! Your input is priceless. 
Happy just came out with a touch screen controller i'm told by a rep, who's coming to show it to me soon. I saw one reply from a Happy owner and one from a Happy owner's friend. Are they really that bad a machine or are they ranked 3rd among the big dogs of commercial embroidery machines?


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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think they're 3rd. Not by long sight. I seriously don't think that Happy is more popular than SWF, Melco or Toyota. Brother (real commercials) maybe. I honestly believe that Toyota has shot themselves in the foot by making all their other machines obsolete and quitting all parts. Who would want to buy something that expensive just to find out they ditched all the parts and service a few years later? Not me for sure. Anyway, I would stay away from a brand new machine unless you've just got the cash burning a hole in your pocket. There are tons, TONS of shops going bankrupt every day with auctions going on all over the place. I understand the want for the latest greatest, but really not a lot has changed except a few conveniences. I've seen a Happy machine maybe twice since I've started. Maybe they're not big down in the South. But didn't see any presence at ISS either. Just remember that either you or someone else is going to have to be in close contact all the time with this machine. All day long.


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

I have a Happy 1501 it is a true commercial machine, I have found that Tajima holds it value better only because they are so much more expensive not nessasarily better. Tajima has pounded embroiderers that thier machine is better that's why they are so much more, I have not found this to be true they just make more profit when they sell one. If for argument sake they are better they are not 4-5K better for the same 15 needle machine in a Happy. Just my opinion
Also I agree with the rest if you do that many garments with a single head you will not have time to do anything else that is a fact you will surely find out if you don't get at least a 4 head machine.
PS: the new Happy touch screen is really neet they should be out soon if not already.


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## EmbroideryEtc (Oct 10, 2006)

*HELP HCG-1202-45TTC Happy Embroidery Machine*

Hi All,

THis is my 5th commercial embroidery machine purchase. I downloaded the operation manual but just cannot figure out the control panel. I have initialized the floppy, loaded a design to it and get the upper part of the control panel my book calls the "operation unit" that contains the floppy reader info to READ the floppy but I am stuck and cannot figure out how to get find this design in memory, change needles, etc. I am totally lost and need a 15 minute walk thru if anyone can have pity on me!!!

Thanks!
Debi


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## Deric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have a potential customer who recently contacted me about taking over their outsourced embroidery contract. Their issue with the current company is that they won't fill short orders. (They are calling orders under 36 pieces short.) I haven't reached the place where I can afford to turn down short orders but I want to make sure I price the order correctly. For a left chest placement (crest size) the current company is charging $4 for the first 10K stitches and $.50 for every 1000 stitches over. They also charge $5 dollars for names on right chest placement. Another issue they have is that they must pick up and deliver their garments to the embroiderer which is 30 miles one way. They would like for me to pick up and drop off. Its only ten minutes away for me one way. They client is saying they have orders daily. I need the business but I want to price it correctly. Thanks for any help in advance. Deric


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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

I sure wouldn't have a problem with those prices as long as they kept you busy. To me that's good money for not having to beat the bushes for the business. If it were me, I'd add in a color change fee of like .25 or something like that because setting up 9 different colors is a pain and time consuming on the machine.


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## a123bonnie (Sep 1, 2008)

Deric said:


> I have a potential customer who recently contacted me about taking over their outsourced embroidery contract. Their issue with the current company is that they won't fill short orders. (They are calling orders under 36 pieces short.) I haven't reached the place where I can afford to turn down short orders but I want to make sure I price the order correctly. For a left chest placement (crest size) the current company is charging $4 for the first 10K stitches and $.50 for every 1000 stitches over. They also charge $5 dollars for names on right chest placement. Another issue they have is that they must pick up and deliver their garments to the embroiderer which is 30 miles one way. They would like for me to pick up and drop off. Its only ten minutes away for me one way. They client is saying they have orders daily. I need the business but I want to price it correctly. Thanks for any help in advance. Deric


It sounds great to me. You could add on a slight delivery charge. I don't know what part of the country you are in but here in Kansas City that would be considered a good price for ongoing contract business. 
You mentioned that they have orders daily so does that mean that you would need to pick up and deliver every day......maybe for only a couple of garments? 
Just something to think about but the prices sound fine to me.
Bonnie


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## Deric (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm in NC, Thanks for the replies I just want to make sure I get the pricing correct, especially on small orders. I am going to find out what his average order is tomorrow. He complained that the company that he is using now has a minimum of 36. I won't mind that if it as consistant as he says it will be (daily). I have had a few businesses approach me about contract embroidery but they don't have large orders. I think there is a niche for shorts but I know the pricing must be correct in order to be profitable. That is why I reached out to the forum for advice. Thanks again. Deric


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## clsgraphics2100 (Nov 20, 2007)

I am a died in the wool Barudan owner.Different from all the rest of the people that have replied I own a 2 head. I have owned it for 10 years and besides a tune up from a Barudan service tech every 18 months I have only had to have a repair call once, this year, and I was still sewing on the other head.
If you look at a 2-4 or more head machine consider one of the ones that can sew 2 different jobs at once. That is the only change I would make if I had to do it over again. To be honest Tajima and Barudan are both quality machines and one of the reasons I picked the Barudan was it sounded more solid when it was sewing. Call me crazy...others have.


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## a123bonnie (Sep 1, 2008)

clsgraphics2100 said:


> I am a died in the wool Barudan owner.Different from all the rest of the people that have replied I own a 2 head. I have owned it for 10 years and besides a tune up from a Barudan service tech every 18 months I have only had to have a repair call once, this year, and I was still sewing on the other head.
> If you look at a 2-4 or more head machine consider one of the ones that can sew 2 different jobs at once. That is the only change I would make if I had to do it over again. To be honest Tajima and Barudan are both quality machines and one of the reasons I picked the Barudan was it sounded more solid when it was sewing. Call me crazy...others have.


I'll second that Barudan message! I have 2 single head Barudans and sold my 1993 model in 2004 to a lady who is still using it every day for her business. I never had to have tech repair all the time I had it and she has had one once. My 2000 model is still my favorite and I love my 2006 model as well. It is my opinion that the sound is like a finely tuned piece of equipment, solid and sound and smooth. Keeping it clean and oiled is all it asks. I would never change as this brand has proven itsself to me.

Bonnie


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