# sublimating dark fabrics



## bbecker (Sep 16, 2011)

hi there.. the company i work for recently let me start doing sublimation on our products.. before we only did screen printing and dts.. since ive started this all the csrs and reps are going crazy over them and i had told them in the beginning that this process was only for whites and lights but now they are pushing me to sublimate on dark colors such as red, navy, forest, and black.. is there a way to do this or am i going to have to get a cutter? all our products are 100% polyester


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

They can push you all they want, but that won't change the capabilities of the sublimation process. The general answer is that you should stick to light colored shirts. 

That being said, you can sublimate on polyester shirts that are dark as long as your artwork is darker than the shirt, and *the shirt can handle the heat of the sublimation process without changing color or deforming.* In other words, it's a rare and difficult thing to do. So that's why people say "stick to light shirts."

I have yet to find a dark red, Forest, or Navy shirt that I could succesfully sublimate on. I've not tried black, that seems to be an obvious waste of time. 

You cannot for example, sublimate white lettering on a dark shirt. There is no "white" ink in sublimation - white is just the absence of color, so the only way to get white in your artwork is to start with a white shirt. When my customers request sublimation on any shirts other than white, I tell them that the artwork can only be black. That is hyper conservative, but it helps them understand the limitations of the process. When they start asking for dark red, dark blue, forest, etc..., I tell them to forget about it.

Maybe what you could do is take a few of those dark colored shirts, sublimate them, and then show them to the people who want them. If they like the result, great. If not, then maybe they will believe what you originally said.

Good luck!


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## Fenrir (Mar 13, 2012)

Every so often I see a website that's selling "sublimation" on dark fabrics. Though I suspect they're mistakenly calling inkjet opaque heat transfers "sublimation", sometimes I see one where I'm not so sure. Can you "discharge print" on polyester? If I ever get things going here, I plan on trying to discharge "print" a black shirt using a stencil, then use JPSS on it.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I don't know about discharging on dark poly but I do know that like what Riph says unless your artwork is darker than the color of the fabric, sublimation is a waste of time. You won't be able to see it. I recommend they stick to screen printing for the dark fabrics.


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## bbecker (Sep 16, 2011)

thanks guys hearing it here makes me feel better.. i just tried putting gold and red on royal and black and as i suspected it turned out terribly.. so now they are on the way to the marketing department to prove the point that it just wont work


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

You can offer the solution to your company which would be to cut & sew sublimated garments. You can then get a dark garments with no voids at the seems or voids caused by wrinkles.

Put together a cost analysis for the cut & sew process for them and you might score some points because you just didn't come to them and say "It can't be done". You gave them the solution. It is up to them to decide if the ROI will be a good one.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Riph said:


> You cannot for example, sublimate white lettering on a dark shirt. There is no "white" ink in sublimation



Well, there is and there isn't part of this statement is true. There is no white ink for sublimation but there is white ink toner. Okidata came out last year with a printer that has white ink sublimation qualities. The printer is about 8k$, I haven't followed up on it but it's out there.


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

Not to derail the OP's thread here, but how does that Okidata white ink work? Does it remove the base color of the T-shirt, or does it cover the base color of the t-shirt with some opaque material?

If it puts down an opaque material, I have a hard time considering it to be "sublimation." To me dye sublimation has at its core the ability to dye polyester without leaving a perceptible material behind, not to cover up the underlying dyes with something opaque. 

But if if Okidata has figured out how to turn a black shirt white with their process, not just cover it up, I'm all ears!


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Riph said:


> But if if Okidata has figured out how to turn a black shirt white with their process, not just cover it up, I'm all ears!


As I mentioned before, I said you were partially correct about there not being white ink. Okidata has a white toner to create white ink (instead of DTG) onto dark polyester items. 

OKI proColor 920 WT LED Printer

Its has _sublimation qualities_ as I mentioned, in the fact that it can print white ink onto polyester.


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

Screen printers have white ink, DTG printers have white ink, lots of people have white ink and can lay it down on polyester. But in the inkjet delivered dye sublimation arena, there is no white ink. I make that qualification now since the majority of us that do dye sublimation are using some form of inkjet delivery, and that is what I was talking about in my post, and I am pretty sure that's what the OP was talking about.

If you use the Okidata product and can answer my question, that would be great. I don't believe what they describe is sublimation, but I'm willing to be educated by someone who has their product and can describe the results they get with it. Just because a manufacturer says it has "dye sublimation qualities" doesn't automatically make me a believer. Which qualities does it have? Does it have the quality of not leaving a perceptible opaque coating on the fabric? That's the quality that matters to me, because that's one of the major benefits of dye sublimation. If it doesn't have that particular quality, then I think it is marketing fluff. If it has that quality, then I want to buy it!

Until that question is answered, with the "ink jet delivery" qualification, which I believe is relevant to the OP's question, I stand by my statement.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

dazzabling said:


> Well, there is and there isn't part of this statement is true. There is no white ink for sublimation but there is white ink toner. Okidata came out last year with a printer that has white ink sublimation qualities. The printer is about 8k$, I haven't followed up on it but it's out there.


The OKI data with white toner is not being sold as a sublimation process. The OKI proColor 920 WT printer from Graphics One CMYK toner is not sublimation.

The confusion about it being a sublimation printer is due to the marketing statement "Ideal for Dye Sublimation and T-Shirt Markets in Addition to Hard Surfaces". This does not mean it is a sublimation printer, it means ideal for Dye Sublimation and T-Shirt *Markets*. 

There is a company that sells CMYK sublimation toner and white toner, the white toner is used as an underbase for sublimation. This product has been on the market well before the OKI proColor 920 WT Oki was introduced.

White Sublimation Laser Toner for Clear Decals, Waterslide Decals, Tshirts, Glass, Leather, Wood, Vinyl and more!

The same SKU numbers on the 920WT CMYK carts are used on another OKI model as well, which is not sold with white toner.


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