# Plastisol print - too rough



## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

Hi all!
I have read some posts about my problem but seems that i still can't find a solution.
I'm using ultrasoft and sometimes maxopac union inks with 110mesh .I tryed different squegee angles , speeds and pressure, different offcontact . Also tryed print flash print , flood print flash print and nothing seems to work well - i get same result every time - rough on touch like sandpaper dry on touch plastisol print . And i can see something like small fibers and holes onto surface . I really don't understand the cause of this.
The only thing i need is nice soft normal print . Please i need some advice.
ps.I was thinking that maybe the cause is some static electricity from the mesh causing the shirt to rise the fibers.
thanx in advance


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Have you tried misting the shirt with water?


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

Flashing to set the ink then doing a final cure with a heat press and teflon sheet will make a nice smooth print.


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Have you tried misting the shirt with water?


no i haven't but i'll . so small amount of mist is not going to screw the ink?
thanx for the advice

and about the heat press - i don't think is a good idea - it will melt the plastisol again and stick it everywhere???


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

i tried the water thing and helps but still the print is like a dry paper even before i cure it .
i thing i'm doing something wrong with the first stroke.
Any other ideas?
thanx a lot


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## BEARBUBBLES (Aug 15, 2007)

iron , using a heat press will work rememeber to first cure the ink, then heat press with a teflon sheet, i have done this a its comes out very soft to the touch, or you can try using a higher mesh count like 125.


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

BEARBUBBLES said:


> iron , using a heat press will work rememeber to first cure the ink, then heat press with a teflon sheet, i have done this a its comes out very soft to the touch, or you can try using a higher mesh count like 125.


thanx actually sounds fear to me but my problem is that i get this rough touch after the second stroke and is visible before any curing . look like small dots which are penetrating the print and like starting to peel on top and the ink layer is not smooth and even.
i have been learning screen printing over the past 8 months like DIY hobby and look like on the last stage i'm stuck . i can't even thing for some more reasons causing this. i just need a normal print...i'm desperate.
no body never had this problem before?
heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

are you using white ink? The problems you are describing sound like ones that typically arise when the first pass doesn't clear the ink from the screen. keep a good 1/8th inch off-contact. when you make your first pass, be sure all the ink clears the screen before you flood it again. if it doesn't, hit it with another dry stroke to clear the ink. (make sure you don't bring a little ink across with the stroke or it will leave streaks.) after you flash the next coat will go down with ease. hope this helps...


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

darwinchristian said:


> are you using white ink? The problems you are describing sound like ones that typically arise when the first pass doesn't clear the ink from the screen. keep a good 1/8th inch off-contact. when you make your first pass, be sure all the ink clears the screen before you flood it again. if it doesn't, hit it with another dry stroke to clear the ink. (make sure you don't bring a little ink across with the stroke or it will leave streaks.) after you flash the next coat will go down with ease. hope this helps...


seems like nothing helps i get this dry feeling like sandpaper with all the inks actually not only the white.


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

are you using a hard squeegee or one that has rounded blade? I can't really think of what else it could be. Could you post some pics of your setup and also a close-up of this rough print?


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

Sve,
I posted recently with the very same problem and with trial and error my findings are:

If your white print is large the problem will show much more than a detailed smaller print. I overcame this on a larger design by giving the squeege a bit of 'wellie' which seemed to lay down less ink. This prevented the mesh sticking to the larger print area, as this is where the 'roughness' is caused, where you are lifting the mesh out of your ink.
Don't discount the idea of heat-pressing a rough print. I have done it and it saved a t-shirt But use a teflon sheet or ink will go everywhere

Hope this helps & keep at it.

Phil


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

ok thanks for the posts funky and darwinchrist - i really appreciated your posts.
yes this is really large but not so design which i'm trying now but it happens on smaller area designs also.
i think funky you have right my first stroke always leave ink sticked on the mesh. and no matter what i do low/high offcontact stilll same.
how to avoid this? even more pressure still same
darwinchrist - yes i'm usin hard squegee not rounded - 
ok here is the close up picture i have done and i really hope this will help


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

i got it! you aren't using pallet tack! right? 

oh the excitement. i'm probably wrong. 

but no matter where you set your off-contact, your screen will lift the shirt off the print table if you don't use an adhesive, thereby not letting the mesh "snap" out of the ink as it should. pretty much all screen print supply companies will carry it in either a spray or liquid spreadable form.

let me know...

edit: also your stencil seems a bit thick, even for 110 mesh. if you are using a scoop coater i'd recommend using the sharp side, if not, maybe try to put the emulsion on a little thinner if possible.


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

ironspider said:


> ok thanks for the posts funky and darwinchrist - i really appreciated your posts.
> yes this is really large but not so design which i'm trying now but it happens on smaller area designs also.
> i think funky you have right my first stroke always leave ink sticked on the mesh. and no matter what i do low/high offcontact stilll same.
> how to avoid this? even more pressure still same
> ...


Looks like your laying down too much ink. If you are flooding the screen before your print stroke don't, just try print stroke only. Also try as I said above but I will try and explain better. Don't flood your screen, angle the squeege at about 45 degrees and flood your design with a print stroke. Then lift your squeege and return to your start point. Leave your squeege *almost *upright and exert more pressure downwards, bring forward to clear all ink laid down on your previous pass. This is all done with your screen left down in the print position.
Try this method as it has been my most productive to date.
I think you will find many printers have their own method which works for them, none are the right or wrong way of doing it, it is what works for them You will find your very own method which works for you & you will know when you have got it right as you will get great prints every time.
Practice, practice & practice you will get there.

Good luck

Phil


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## funkymunky (Dec 8, 2007)

darwinchristian said:


> i got it! you aren't using pallet tack! right?
> 
> oh the excitement. i'm probably wrong.
> 
> ...


Derek,
You are right! It could be this too.

Great advice available on this forum. And interesting how each member views problems from different angles.


Phil


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Mesh holes maybe too big.


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

darwinchrist i'm using platen/pallet and adhesive spray also so my shirt is pretty tight on the platen and the mesh is 110 and the emulsion is ok is not thick . I just trying too many strokes cos i'm trying angles and ext ext but what you see is the same but thiner after 2 strokes so .... again we are at the same point.
i just continue 3rd day doing same thing without result i'm doing something wrong but dont know what 
anyway i continue wish me luck and if there are some more suggestions they are welcome . 
special thanx to darwinchrist and funky
thanx guys


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

stix said:


> Mesh holes maybe too big.


if you looking at the design there are some holes on the design itself. My mesh is 110 and with ultrasoft plus union ink i know there shouldn't be a problem. Do i need higher mesh - i never tried higher than 110. should i?


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

that design should be okay with 110 mesh. i would use a higher mesh, but only because i always prefer higher mesh as it lays less ink, leaving a lesser hand, as well as more ink and more emulsion in their respective buckets. 

the key is to get that mesh to snap out of the ink laid down, immediately. you are going to need to analyze the situation and find out why it isn't happening. 

it looks to me that you are laying down a bit too much ink. another problem may be that when you flood the screen you are pulling too hard, forcing ink through the screen, instead of merely filling the stencil before the pass.

another problem may be that your screen mesh isn't tensioned properly.

another problem may be that your squeegee isn't sharp or hard enough.

yet another is that your off contact isn't at 1/8".

and another could be that your screen wasn't degreased properly before coating and exposing.

all i can say is that the ink should cut away from the screen like butter from a knife on the pass.

it does get difficult to suggest solutions without actually seeing you walk us through the entire process. i hope that some of this info helps...


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## lindyts (Feb 26, 2008)

Sounds like your real problem is the ink.....it's too thick. All of the other tips by the other posts are good. Thin out our ink and save your arms. I use a 70 durometer squeege, 45 degree angle. You shouldn't have any problems with ultrasoft and a 110 screen. If you are, then your problem is the squeege. The squeege is probably old and soft.


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

darwinchristian said:


> that design should be okay with 110 mesh. i would use a higher mesh, but only because i always prefer higher mesh as it lays less ink, leaving a lesser hand, as well as more ink and more emulsion in their respective buckets.
> 
> the key is to get that mesh to snap out of the ink laid down, immediately. you are going to need to analyze the situation and find out why it isn't happening.
> 
> ...


i understand and thank again i'll be monitoring this problem and i'll post some experience next day.
here is another photo


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

lindyts said:


> Sounds like your real problem is the ink.....it's too thick. All of the other tips by the other posts are good. Thin out our ink and save your arms. I use a 70 durometer squeege, 45 degree angle. You shouldn't have any problems with ultrasoft and a 110 screen. If you are, then your problem is the squeege. The squeege is probably old and soft.


i think the ultrasoft union ink is very creamy and easy to use and is not thick like maxopake , but will change the squegee like i really feel might be a problem. i feel squegee is bending when i press.


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## lindyts (Feb 26, 2008)

I'll explain what is happening. If the ink is too thick it will not shear correctly. When you lift the screen the ink should be pulled from the screen by the shirt. When the ink is too thick... you have a major problem. The ink wants to stay in the screen and on the shirt, that's where your fibers are coming from. When your ink is thined properly, it will shear correctly and you'll have a nice smooth print. If all is done right you might be able to see the mesh marks in the ink on the shirt. As I said before, you also probably have too soft of a squeege. Your screens must be high tension. Can you bounce a quarter off of the screen?


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

lindyts said:


> I'll explain what is happening. If the ink is too thick it will not shear correctly. When you lift the screen the ink should be pulled from the screen by the shirt. When the ink is too thick... you have a major problem. The ink wants to stay in the screen and on the shirt, that's where your fibers are coming from. When your ink is thined properly, it will shear correctly and you'll have a nice smooth print. If all is done right you might be able to see the mesh marks in the ink on the shirt. As I said before, you also probably have too soft of a squeege. Your screens must be high tension. Can you bounce a quarter off of the screen?


ok once again the ink is not thick it is creamy and soft maybe i put too much ink on the first stroke . i changed the squeege with new hard one - same story. and yes i can bounce a quarter on my mesh . 
i'll try less ink on my first stroke.
btw my offcontact is 2pennys high is that ok?
thank you jimbo

ps . and i mention that the mess is coming after the first stroke and than any other stroke is useless


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## mreicher (Aug 10, 2006)

Every picture tells a story.

You're screen doesn't have enough tension. It's not snapping back immediately and is shloshing through your ink too slowly.

Do you have a tension meter to check this? I believe you said you're using 110 mesh, so it should be at 40-50 or so newtons. 

This is the beauty of roller frames.


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

ok i want to close this thread.
i found the problem and is nothing of the above - i just cured too much after my first stroke and the ink become very dry so every other stroke made my print worst. i just cured a little bit until the ink is still sticky but not wet and boooom next stroke was beauty.
thanx all for your advices. the best way to solve something like this is just trial and error.
amin


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## ironspider (Mar 20, 2008)

ImageIt said:


> It sounds like you are trying too hard and not letting the tool do the work. Stop being at all concerned about how much ink is being put down and instead concentrate on how consistent the ink laydown is.
> 
> I don't use any reducers or other additive to my ink. What i do use is an electric drill to mix the heck out of the ink. While mixing, i'll reverse the direction of the drill fairly frequently.
> 
> ...


hey fred cutting stroke in the end rules!
thanx


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