# Heat transfers on Black Shirts



## Rober (Mar 1, 2006)

Greetings, this is my first forum post (aside from introduction) but I am seriously in need of some assistance. I am a graphics artist who has hired a company who produces my images on shirts using silk-screening which is working out very well, but....

I have had many requests for offering my images on black t-shirts, using the heat press/heat transfer method. The method works great on white shirts but in doing my research about working with black shirts.. came across a supposed "One step" method for use with dark colors.

In excitement I ordered allot of this "wonder product" and enough black shirts to clothe a small army... 

Just last evening I made my first transfer to try out... It printed ok, cut easily enough and I managed to get it to peel without to much cussing on my part ;-)

But.... After following the instructions to the letter.... The image background and border are highly visible in fact... almost white in color and in my opinion.. looks like.. well crap.

The shirt is useless and I have already written a rather harsh letter to the company where I made the purchase of this "transfer paper" demanding a full refund. But I still wish to persue the idea.

Can anyone recommend a "proven method" for creating transfers for use with black t-shirts that does in fact work? I don't mind a wee bit of background noise (as I call it) but you get the drift I hope.

Thanks in advance.


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## jdr8271 (Jun 16, 2005)

With opaque inkjet transfers, there is a white background that shows through. This is just the nature of the product.

If you dont want a white background and still want to do dark shirts with your heat press, you can buy a vinyl cutter and make vinyl transfers, or you can buy plasticol transfers from companies like first-edition.com.


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## suzieh (Feb 8, 2006)

Send your design out to have plastisol transfers which you can gang up. I'm looking into outsourcing as well, Silver Mountain Graphics and Ace Transfer has been suggested. Perhaps you can find someone local as I'm trying to do. Susan H.


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## Rober (Mar 1, 2006)

jdr8271 said:


> With opaque inkjet transfers, there is a white background that shows through. This is just the nature of the product.
> 
> If you dont want a white background and still want to do dark shirts with your heat press, you can buy a vinyl cutter and make vinyl transfers, or you can buy plasticol transfers from companies like first-edition.com.


I guess I will have to dabble with the background then. make it black and see how that works. Thank you for responding.

As for vinyl, my opinion is it is to think, and feels like something is attached to your chest. I will pass on this welcomed suggestion tho. I have read about the "plasticol" transfers here in this forum and checked out thier site. Although appealing, and it is just my opinion of course.. I think the prices they are asking are ridiculously high considering... But I may try them out down the road.

I will post the results from my background testing if anyone is interested in reading about it. Many thanks again


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## Rober (Mar 1, 2006)

suzieh said:


> Send your design out to have plastisol transfers which you can gang up. I'm looking into outsourcing as well, Silver Mountain Graphics and Ace Transfer has been suggested. Perhaps you can find someone local as I'm trying to do. Susan H.


Thank you also for responding. Looking into a local option might be a logical option, provided of course.. They can do it reasonably priced. 

I will check into this option and let you know how it turns out. 

Thanks again...


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Rober said:


> I guess I will have to dabble with the background then. make it black and see how that works. Thank you for responding.


Opaque transfers are really only good for big block images where you can actually cut out all the whitespace (and in my opinion, not even good for that). The quality of vinyl/plastisol is much higher, and it'll actually be cheaper if you're doing more than a couple anyway.



Rober said:


> As for vinyl, my opinion is it is to think, and feels like something is attached to your chest.


Vinyl actually has a very good feel to it; you'll notice that 'stiffness' effect a lot more from opaque transfers than vinyl in most cases.



Rober said:


> I will pass on this welcomed suggestion tho. I have read about the "plasticol" transfers here in this forum and checked out thier site. Although appealing, and it is just my opinion of course.. I think the prices they are asking are ridiculously high considering... But I may try them out down the road.


Plastisol is pretty cheap really, especially if you have smaller designs that you can gang up on one page. It does depend on how many colors you want to do too of course; several colors could get pricey, yes.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Opaque transfers can look good if you have the proper software and equipment to create them. An optic eye cutter/plotter can easily trim the excess material that you are wanting to get rid of. Basically when printing the transfer paper, you would print it with three registration points on the paper. After it is printed you can load it into the cutter. The cutter then reads the registration points with the optic eye and knows exactly where to trim around your image. When using this method, you get a better look and feel on the garment, however the durability still is limited to the quality of the paper.

On a side note, some heat transfer vinyls are very thin and soft to the hand. Usually the materials that are polyurethane based offer this quality.


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## suzieh (Feb 8, 2006)

On another group I belong to, seems as if the opaque vinyl does not hold up after say 18 washes. The hand is softer than opaque and will last longer. Yes, more colors means more money so all a matter of what kind of pricing you have on your t-shirts and how much durability matters. Just sharing :0)
Susan H.


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## Rober (Mar 1, 2006)

suzieh said:


> On another group I belong to, seems as if the opaque vinyl does not hold up after say 18 washes. The hand is softer than opaque and will last longer. Yes, more colors means more money so all a matter of what kind of pricing you have on your t-shirts and how much durability matters. Just sharing :0)
> Susan H.


I would have to agree with you Suzieh and have opted not to use the opaque transfers at all. I have contacted the company from which the purchase was made and they are going to give me a full refund. I will not offer my customers an inferior looking shirt just to save a few bucks, that is not my style ;-)

But not to worry sportsfans... In the words of my friend "Brodrick - I have a cunning plan my lord".... and will post the results once the testing is complete. Many thanks to all of you for your assistance and suggestions.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

So..... did your "Cunning Plan" ever work out? What did you end up going with for transfers onto black shirts?


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

he has not been here in over a decade

just don't want you to be surprised if you don't get a response


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

into the T said:


> he has not been here in over a decade
> 
> just don't want you to be surprised if you don't get a response


LOL!!! Guess I wont be holding my breath then... lol!! Thanks for the heads up!! Wish printing a soft hand onto a black shirt wasnt so darned difficult...


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

did you see the two videos NoXid pasted in this thread?


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## danversatrans (Aug 1, 2017)

suzieh said:


> Send your design out to have plastisol transfers which you can gang up. I'm looking into outsourcing as well, Silver Mountain Graphics and Ace Transfer has been suggested. Perhaps you can find someone local as I'm trying to do. Susan H.


You should without a doubt consider Plastisol Transfers. It gives you a lot of different options

Dan


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

into the T said:


> did you see the two videos NoXid pasted in this thread?


I had not... thank you! Pretty interesting... I know some people are printing onto transfer paper with white toner and then printing with sublimation ink onto the white toner... probably the same idea... I wonder if anyone is doing this on a regular basis or if it is a pain in the rear... going to do some more looking... thanks!!


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

i might try this, as i do mostly my own designs
so i could conceivably just have a screen for each design
then a mask like Lnfortun has posted about (maybe out of a thin mylar instead of paper, ie. re-usable)

but i have two other methods to trial first (not for color on darks mind you)
so this is third on the list 
(maybe fourth, but i do like the concept and think it can be doable in a low-key production environment,
just not for low order custom)


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> i might try this, as i do mostly my own designs
> so i could conceivably just have a screen for each design
> then a mask like Lnfortun has posted about (maybe out of a thin mylar instead of paper, ie. re-usable)
> 
> ...


Stencil Films - Graphic Innovations

I use this. Even on screens. Works great with screens. Airbrushes likes to use mylar cause it's solvent proof, but it's crap for cutting, cause they need to do bunch of passes and they can't make detail designs. But with oramask you can do everything. I use it even for airbrushing. I tried even with regular brush and super cover which noxid recommended me.

Process which works direct to black t-shirt:
cut stencil, transfer it to t-shirt, put baking paper on, and heat set it with iron on low temperature. Cause if you over do it, you gonna melt the stencil. When stencil is heat set, you won't get over spray or overflow under the stencil. Works great. Just a Thought.

I made t-shirt for my old one, he is retired plumber. But sometimes he got call from a buddies in needs. Even when it's late. Water doesn't wait. He goes in to the dark like a Batman. So he got a t-shirt for those working nights from me. Using oramask.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

that looks great
first thing my wife said, you're not doing that in the house
i think she is picturing one of those paint-sprayers for houses

have you tested washbility?


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> that looks great
> first thing my wife said, you're not doing that in the house
> i think she is picturing one of those paint-sprayers for houses
> 
> have you tested washbility?


 This stuff wont go down even if I wash on 90 celsius white cloth program which is max in my country. I spend last year some money for tutorials which are only about t-shirts. I also bought 2x black t-shirt tutorials + 1x how to prepare black t-shirt from guys which are more then 15 years in industry. Lets just say money was well worth spend.
Oramask is my brainstorming and it works great. The best part is everyone can do it with it. So that batman, you can do it. Probably would need to try few times on paper, just to get a feeling...

Free hand is just practise. More you practise better your are.

So to answer your question. Guys who do it, never had a problem with washability. I heard only fabric will be all torned up, but art will still be ok.

If we are talking about money. There is some investment, but if you compare colors or heat transfers, colors win by far... 

for example: 60ml bottle is 8 euros. Bought 5(primary colors set-I can mix all colors from those 5) like 5 months ago, i am running out of white and I have black like 1/5. The rest of colors are almost full...

But I ordered today 1x 960ml white for 60 euros and 1x 960 black for 60 euros. And this is enough for one year 100%

You take few drops and that's it. Shirt is done. Not to mention..I can do everything.
mugs? you name it. Wooden doors? no problem.. And so on. And it's fun 

I am doing stencil work. But when I do have any free time I turn up the music, I put some nice old school rock and practise freehand. I am bad, but I didn't do a lot of those. But I already see progress. Spiderman was today, deadpool was one week ago, when I had time for my self.





I know I should buy new phone, this photos are crap lol, but I rather spend on colors


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

I tried to make another photo but guess this one is bad also. It's night time here and all looks weird..


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks @seacookie 
Your freehand work is looking pretty good. Don't sell yourself short; with art there is always room for improvement and trying new things, and you'll never be done learning 

Washability should be fine if you use appropriate paint/ink. I remember a woman at the beach airbrushing T-shirts maybe 20 years ago ... but not sure what she used or how it held up.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXid said:


> Thanks @seacookie
> 
> Washability should be fine if you use appropriate paint/ink. I remember a woman at the beach airbrushing T-shirts maybe 20 years ago ... but not sure what she used or how it held up.


they use 60 psi for t-shirts so they push paint with force in to the fabric. I use wicked:
multi-surface, water-based airbrush paint suitable for any surface. Wicked Colors are transparent with a high pigment-volume, so they cover semi-opaque out-of-the bottle and may be over-reduced to create very transparent colors for detailed artwork. 
https://createxcolors.com/wicked-airbrush-colors/index.html

here are pictures of colors :
https://www.airbrush4you.de//tpl/download/Createx_Wicked_Farbkarte.pdf

quite a good selection. Not to mention you can mix your own.

But I do try bunch of stuff. Including screen printing 
For airbrushing I use opaque white and opague black. It is stronger. If I need more transparent I just reduce it more.


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## kostasfmx (Apr 19, 2017)

seacookie said:


> into the T said:
> 
> 
> > that looks great
> ...


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

kostasfmx said:


> seacookie said:
> 
> 
> > Wow !!
> ...


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

I forgot the most important part... If you gonna use oramask or some other vinyl for screen printing you can do more then one t-shirt. People were doing like 50 t-shirts screen printed with vinyl and vinyl was still good to use. 
So basically you wouldn't need screen for each design even if you do more t-shirts. Small screen t-shirt size- regular aluminium with mesh at my place is 35 Euros. Bigger which I bought is 50 Euros. 
10 screens x 3.5 = 350
10 screens x5 = 500
1 meter oramask(width is 63cm I think=4x a4 size in width) is like 2 or 3 euros. A4 size oramask would be enough for 3x batmans for example + some small design or text if we are talking about size.

Mylar is around 2 or 3 euros per a3.

It all depends what kinda production you are having. You can always have few screens for your best sellers . Or few screens for multi colored designs.

one more thing: airbrushers always go for some very complex design which they ''draw'' on t-shirts. But easy design can be done in seconds... If I am not counting making stencil. You all are good ''weeders'' so you know how much time you waste there. But spraying for ''batman'' was like 30 seconds and I am bad at this...

So if I would make reusable stencil(mylar like you Into the T mentioned) I would have shirts in mass production without a problem theoretically...

You can always cut mylar by hand or laser cutter if cameo or other cutter for vinyl can't handle it.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

seacookie said:


> I spend last year some money for tutorials which are only about t-shirts. I also bought 2x black t-shirt tutorials + 1x how to prepare black t-shirt from guys which are more then 15 years in industry. Lets just say money was well worth spend.


Would you possibly have a link to where you purchased your training? It sounds like it was worth the investment.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Would you possibly have a link to where you purchased your training? It sounds like it was worth the investment.


you thinking about doing airbrushing?

cause those tutorials are for airbrushing...


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

seacookie said:


> you thinking about doing airbrushing?
> 
> cause those tutorials are for airbrushing...



Looking for ways to do black shirts with a great hand and washability... it sounds like you are doing both the airbrushing and also using screens with stencils for this? 

I hate the feel of transfer papers... the plastic feel. 

Everyone seems to want the black shirts though... so I want to be able to give them what they want. I would need to use stencils to be consistent.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Looking for ways to do black shirts with a great hand and washability... it sounds like you are doing both the airbrushing and also using screens with stencils for this?
> 
> I hate the feel of transfer papers... the plastic feel.
> 
> Everyone seems to want the black shirts though... so I want to be able to give them what they want. I would need to use stencils to be consistent.


https://www.airbrushaction.com/

Coast Airbrush

There is bunch of others. In uk for example:
https://www.everythingairbrush.com/dvd-s.html

This is totally different process then heat thransfers...

But... I understand you. When I was on a mission to get best transfers and I seen the price for them if I buy 100 pieces and the quality I get and all the issues people had... People ware making wash test and had bunch of issues. I was like: -.- what the hell, need to figure out something.

Into the T and noxid helped a lot, cause I combined quite a few stuff from the info which they gave me.

If you decide to go that route, wear a respirator. People don't use it when they shoot tutorials so you can hear them, but it is a must. 

You basically break the color to smallest parts(_Atomization_) and even if it is water based, you don't won't to get that in your lungs.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-177773.html


You do have like mini paint boots which some people use with an exhaust system, or they work in well ventilated rooms.

example:
https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Airbrush-Spray-Booths.html

mask which I use:
https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/3M-7500-Half-Mask-Airbrushing-Pack-3M7500ABK.html#SID=23

I am in a process of building my own exhaust system which will be connected to my easel and it will have 6x pc ventilators for pulling air in to the exhaust.

for now I use this to move air from the room:
https://www.vornado.com/shop/circulators-fans/660-large-air-circulator



So what ever you decide, do your homework before you start messing with it.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> it sounds like you are doing both the airbrushing and also using screens with stencils for this?


batman was airbrush only.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

here is a fun info:
2 boards of all stencils

I wouldn't pay that money for it, I rather make my owns. But for fun I posted link. Options are limitless.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

great info seacookie

i have been researching since you started,
and i will throw these links in here for Shallena or kostas:
link1
link2
link3
lots of info to get your head around the process and the different techniques people use for different substrates 


my favorite type of thread,
different ideas to get the creative juices flowing,
and posters from slovenia, germany, america and canada bound by the common denominator of a simple t-shirt


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Iwata-Preset-Cut-OutHandle-IWS-1556.html#SID=1409

This is golden thing for beginner. If you use Iwata airbrushes like I do. The back knob determines how much airbrush needle has a movement. So you set this to settings which you like and push air and spray. Results are always the same if you spray with the same paint each time. No need for feeling. You just set your settings.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> great info seacookie
> 
> i have been researching since you started,
> and i will throw these links in here for Shallena or kostas:
> ...


I am a member on that forum you linked. Those guys are masters. Their pieces are my wild dreams  But, they are so nice and help full. When they are doing t-shirts they make master pieces, not simple designs like I am making. But they still help noobs and motivate them with bunch of use full advices even if noob makes stuff which are a joke to them if we are talking about complexity in design.

That link is great if someone decide to try it.

I would say that the best way is to find good balance in your process. If you get customer which needs like 200 shirts for some protest is something different then if you need one shirt. And if you need that one shirt to last for long, or if you need to last for one night.

It is good if you learn more ways then one, so you can adapt to demand. That is the reason I started with screen printing actually. I hate emulsion, so I tried to find easier process for me.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Maybe I should mention bleach... Not sure though It can be dangerous... Like screen printers are using discharged inks, there are also people using bleach. I bought one tutorial where guy used bleach to get white underbase for his art. But I talked about this with few guys, and they agreed atomisation of bleach is not recommended for your health. The guy on tutorial used regular spray which you get on your bleach, so I GUESS there is no atomisation there. But we did check respirator specification and if you do use bleach for atomisation - if you spray it with airbrush you would need special filters on your respirator(or at least double check if you got the right ones). Ether way I seen with regular spray bottle works. 

How toxic is this, would probably noxid know much more, after all he knows what is happening when you play with discharged inks. You can even find videos on you tube how people use bleach to make t-shirts. But they are making one, this is not the same like if you are making thousands of t-shirts and few years of that.

Health first or you will not be able to make t-shirts sooner or later. Just a thought.

here you can see what you need for different stuff:

https:
//multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/439875O/3m-7500-series-half-face-mask-respirator-datasheet.pdf

bleach and transfer on top? -.-
edit: nah, don't try it 

something is wrong with link...copy and put together...


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

for example on that link I posted:
FILTER
6051 A1
6055 A2
(EN14387:2004)
6054 K1
(EN141:2000)
6057 ABE1
(EN141:2000)
6059 ABEK1
(EN141:2000)
6075 A1 &
formaldehyde
(EN141:2000)
6096 HgP3
(EN141:2000)
HAZARD
Organic
Vapours
Ammonia
Organic
Vapours,
Inorganic and
Acid Gases
Organic
Vapours,
Inorganic
Gases, Acid
gases and
Ammonia
Organic
Vapours and
Formaldehyde
Mercury and
particulates
INDUSTRY
Anywhere conventional paints are
used (subject to usage conditions)
Vehicle manufacture
Aircraft manufacture and
refurbishment
Boat building
Ink and Dye manufacture and
use
Adhesive manufacture and use
Paint and varnish manufacture
Resin manufacture and use


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

This video uses bleach, spray brush and freezer paper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4XzwBxlxLs

Freehand using bleach pen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ZyOdeO13o

I reposted the link for you:

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/439875O/3m-7500-series-half-face-mask-respirator-datasheet.pdf


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Lnfortun said:


> I reposted the link for you:
> 
> [media]https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/439875O/3m-7500-series-half-face-mask-respirator-datasheet.pdf[/media]


thank you. Don't know what is happening. Usually my links are working. Maybe I did something and moderator is punishing me? -.-


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

you see highslide js.... what the hell...


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

bleach is one of my top methods to trial (hopefully free-up some time this month)
as my designs are pretty simplistic and would lend themselves well to this process

you're right about the atomization being problematic,
i was planning on just plant-misters

here is a pic i have in my files (not my work, just an example bleach on a hoodie)


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> bleach is one of my top methods to trial (hopefully free-up some time this month)
> as my designs are pretty simplistic and would lend themselves well to this process
> 
> you're right about the atomization being problematic,
> ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KffpeweaY7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJKKGqVD3g

and bleach pen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnQdU_k6l0


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

OP will be mad on us. We went totally off topic -.-

just little edit: Those bleach t-shirts can be phenomenal.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

into the T said:


> bleach is one of my top methods to trial (hopefully free-up some time this month)
> as my designs are pretty simplistic and would lend themselves well to this process
> 
> you're right about the atomization being problematic,
> ...


Wow... that is pretty cool! I have not seen that technique before... I have been "bleaching" my colored shirts for many years by accident while cleaning with bleach water... If only I had thought of masking off my shirts before cleaning I could have ended up with some really cool designs!!


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

seacookie said:


> OP will be mad on us. We went totally off topic -.-
> 
> just little edit: Those bleach t-shirts can be phenomenal.



Still talking about decorating dark shirts.... and I think this is a super interesting conversation!! I am wondering... it seems like you could take a black shirt... and use bleach to whiten up a background area to print a transfer onto... instead of having to use white toner for the background... What do you guys think?


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

just in case anyone wants to trial this method, as seacookie said:

DO NOT MESS AROUND WITHOUT A VERY GOOD MASK < BLEACH IS HARMFUL >

at least p100 filters like these


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

Shallena, have you heard of using batik technique for tees?

more hassle than a stencil, but interesting
(to add to seacookie's oramask, 
duralar 0.005 may be thin enough for most cutters, yet resilient enough for longevity)

but as you can see it is not white when bleached, depends on tee color

don't forget you need to stop the bleach from continuing to eat at your fabric,
so have a large bucket of water mixed with antil-chlor or bleach stop


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> just in case anyone wants to trial this method, as seacookie said:
> 
> DO NOT MESS AROUND WITHOUT A VERY GOOD MASK < BLEACH IS HARMFUL >
> 
> at least p100 filters like these


Not a bad idea if you were one of those :
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/worker-...onal-protective-equipment/scotchgard-eyewear/

I have one for airbrushing, but if I would do bleach... Damn, I wouldn't won't to risk some bleach particle by accident comes to visit my eyes...

you can get plastic ones for 2 bucks everywhere...


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

one more tip if anyone can use it. After you finish your work with respirator, put it in zip lock pvc bag. Filters are working all the time, on my respirator for example it it recommended to change filters at least every 2 years. But if you put it in pvc zip lock filters can't filter anything. So you basically preserve your filters that way. I am still planing to change them once per year even if I have respirator in zip lock pvc bag when I am not using it.

edit: and check your filters how fast they need to be changed.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

seacookie said:


> you see highslide js.... what the hell...


It is a link when you see highslide. It just don't put the literal url wording.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Shallena66 said:


> Still talking about decorating dark shirts.... and I think this is a super interesting conversation!! I am wondering... it seems like you could take a black shirt... and use bleach to whiten up a background area to print a transfer onto... instead of having to use white toner for the background... What do you guys think?


If you wanted an actual white background rather than the bleachy effect, then discharge screen printing ink would be the way. Not all brands/colors of garments discharge well, but black shirts from the big names are usually made to be compatible with discharge. It smells *horrible* and you want an organics filter and ventilation when using it.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

watching Ryan of Ryonet on youtube show me what this is... I am intrigued. Do you use this Luis?


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

NoXid said:


> If you wanted an actual white background rather than the bleachy effect, then discharge screen printing ink would be the way. Not all brands/colors of garments discharge well, but black shirts from the big names are usually made to be compatible with discharge. It smells *horrible* and you want an organics filter and ventilation when using it.


Here is a video of a guy using the discharge ink to make a white background... and then transferring a color transfer onto a black shirt...

https://youtu.be/Fqky06LpNAo


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Have any of you guys done this?? I am totally going to do this!!


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

nope,
but it is on the list

i like seacookie's idea of using a sign-vinyl mask for your design on the screen
as i recall it works best if attached to the underside of the screen

then if it works well for you you can burn your own or get them burnt for you


NoXid, can you recommend a good discharge ink?


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

What vinyl should I use to mask the design?


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

into the T said:


> NoXid, can you recommend a good discharge ink?


Back when I was doing discharge, I was using Ryonet (they are local to me). It was actually made by Matsui and co-branded on the label. I got good results with it. But that was some years ago, so not sure what they are selling now.

I have tried Virus, but didn't like it as well (with untinted discharge, it reduces black to a light tannish cotton look, whereas Ryonet/Matsui reduces to a light gray, which I found to be better for color accuracy and pop).

The Ryonet/Matsui uses the "traditional" ZFS crystals. Virus uses a liquid with a different chemical base. Both are among the half-dozen, or so, very similar chemistries used industrially for similar purposes. ZFS is the norm for screen printing, for whatever reason(s), and based on my own experience, I would stick with a discharge system that uses that chemistry. In truth, I doubt that the specific brand of the ZFS crystals and carrier ink matter a great deal


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Shallena66 said:


> Here is a video of a guy using the discharge ink to make a white background... and then transferring a color transfer onto a black shirt...
> 
> https://youtu.be/Fqky06LpNAo


 I know. I recently posted that in several other threads.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

NoXid said:


> I know. I recently posted that in several other threads.


LOL!!!! That is probably where I found it... LOL!!!!! I love that old guy! I am surprised I don't hear more about the technique. You mentioned that you dont use the technique any more. how come?


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

thanks NoXid, in the meantime i had found one of your old posts on discharge form 2015


Shallena, i think any decent outdoor sign vinyl will work (oracal 651)
tutorial 1
tutorial 2
tutorial 3
tutorial 4


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Shallena66 said:


> LOL!!!! That is probably where I found it... LOL!!!!! I love that old guy! I am surprised I don't hear more about the technique. You mentioned that you dont use the technique any more. how come?


To be clear, I've never used discharge in combination with inkjet transfers, but I've used both separately, and posted a few comments about the idea in the past months.

We use all sorts of products and chemicals every day, especially if one is screen printing. Most of use turn on a fan or open a window to keep the air healthy when curing shirts, and the like, but we don't run around wearing a respirator. We would probably be wise to get the respirator 

Using discharge ink will leave absolutely no doubt in your mind (eyes or lungs) that the stuff is not healthy to be around. Good ventilation and a respirator are a must if one is going to use this on a regular basis. I don't really like gearing up like an astronaut, so that was one vote against it.

Another reason is that I print small, small quantities on a more or less POD-like basis. ZFS discharge is a horrible ink for that sort of business model, as the ink has a short, short shelf-life once the ZFS is mixed in. So I would have been wasting a LOT of ink every time I printed.

That was why I tried the Virus discharge. It is supposed to last longer after adding the discharge agent. But I didn't like the results as much as ZFS.

But I might consider pre-printing discharge in batches for use with inkjet transfers of a few standard sizes/shapes. Gear up, mix up some ink, print a sizeable batch, toss the residual ink. As something done once a month, or so, I could live with that. Just not day-to-day.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

I watched this video - https://youtu.be/w3-p0CSVudo it is Ryan at Ryonet and at about 6:30 in the video he says that he put a lid on his ink and it saved in the fridge for about a month... took it out and added a bit of activator and was able to rock and roll again.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Shallena66 said:


> I watched this video - https://youtu.be/w3-p0CSVudo it is Ryan at Ryonet and at about 6:30 in the video he says that he put a lid on his ink and it saved in the fridge for about a month... took it out and added a bit of activator and was able to rock and roll again.


Yes, I have done that, and it works fine once or twice. But after a number of cycles of adding more ZFS, what have you got? At some point you have to trash it or risk messing up a print run.

As to keeping it in the fridge with food ... yeah, I did it. Probably not the greatest idea long term.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Shallena66 said:


> watching Ryan of Ryonet on youtube show me what this is... I am intrigued. Do you use this Luis?


No I don't. I thought about it and looked around how it was done and what are the concerns. I decided not to do it for now. Besides it only work effectively with 100% cotton. Cotton blend and 100% poly dye does not discharge like cotton dye.

It is a good solution though and leaves soft hand according to people that did it.

@NoXid do you prewash the shirt before shipping? Any adverse concern like irritation or health issue?

I thought about bleach. My concern is how much is too much and how consistent it is compared to discharge.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Lnfortun said:


> No I don't. I thought about and looked around how it was done and what are the concerns. I decided not to do it for now. Besides it only work effectively with 100% cotton. Cotton blend and 100% poly dye does not discharge like cotton dye.
> 
> It is a good solution though and leaves soft hand according to people that did it.
> 
> @NoXid do you prewash the shirt before shipping? Any adverse concern like irritation or health issue?


I would have qualms about shipping anyone a shirt that smells like fresh discharge! They'd think a cat had eaten a bunch of brussel sprouts, peed on their shirt, and then crawled in the bag and died 
Just from a customer satisfaction point of view, I think you have to wash them before selling.

As far as customer safety ... all new shirts are full of all sorts of nasty, they just don't smell as obviously bad as discharge. Customers should be washing all shirts before wearing, whether screen printed or not.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

That bad? Wow. Thanks.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Lnfortun said:


> That bad? Wow. Thanks.


And he put that in the fridge. Cheap bastard


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXid said:


> As to keeping it in the fridge with food ... yeah, I did it. Probably not the greatest idea long term.


At least you are being honest. You are on the whole different level of honesty then rest of us on this forum


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXid said:


> We use all sorts of products and chemicals every day, especially if one is screen printing. Most of use turn on a fan or open a window to keep the air healthy when curing shirts, and the like, but we don't run around wearing a respirator. We would probably be wise to get the respirator


well to be honest i had my doubts with respirator. How the hell will I wear it for few hours straight. I was thinking it would be a pain in the we know what....

it helped a lot that airbrushers give safety on first. So from the start all encourage new comers to use respirators. You keep hearing that. And then doesn't sound weird anymore, cause you hear it so many times. It feels like something totally normal, cause everybody keep saying: wear a respirator.

So I rather invested some money and I didn't bought the cheapest one. And it was worth it. I don't feel when I am working that I am wearing respirator. But that is with all things. More many you put in equipment, better equipment you get.

But you did answer me on one of my questions. I was always asking my self about discharged inks, respirators, smells and fumes. I was reading people posts what they need to do if they are doing t-shirts with discharged inks and I was always asking my self about this. For example one guy was asking if he can do discharged in the same house in his garage and his kid is upstairs...

By reading those posts I was under the impression those inks can't be healty...


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

seacookie said:


> well to be honest i had my doubts with respirator. How the hell will I wear it for few hours straight. I was thinking it would be a pain in the we know what....
> 
> it helped a lot that airbrushers give safety on first. So from the start all encourage new comers to use respirators. You keep hearing that. And then doesn't sound weird anymore, cause you hear it so many times. It feels like something totally normal, cause everybody keep saying: wear a respirator.
> 
> ...


There is a pretty old thread where someone says they got heavy metal poisoning from ZFS discharge. The "Z" is for Zinc. It also adds a nice metallic tang to the scent. The "F" is for Formaldehyde. You all can probably figure out how good that is all on your own. The "S" is for Sulfate. It is the sulfur compounds that really round out the bouquet  

That said, using this stuff early on did motivate me to install decent ventilation, which I now make good use of with the less smelly fumes of regular screen printing. You can't beat the hand of discharge on darks. Just be smart about your health when using it. (Initially, of course, I used it with no powered ventilation, no respirator, and cured it with a hand-held heat gun )


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXid said:


> There is a pretty old thread where someone says they got heavy metal poisoning from ZFS discharge. The "Z" is for Zinc. It also adds a nice metallic tang to the scent. The "F" is for Formaldehyde. You all can probably figure out how good that is all on your own. The "S" is for Sulfate. It is the sulfur compounds that really round out the bouquet


Great info. No discharged for me, I don't wanna kill all plants which my neighbours have around me


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXid said:


> (Initially, of course, I used it with no powered ventilation, no respirator, and cured it with a hand-held heat gun )


Like many others on you tube. Quite weird I never found a video about safety when doing discharged inks. Didn't know that stuff is so nasty.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

thanks for all that NoXid

nice idea, but not my cuppa tea

i quit a lab job just because of all the horrifying safety issues,
full suits/respirators/arm-length gloves/etc.

i won't be going back to that,
but i like seacookie's airbrush
as i would have no issues using a good mask (once adjusted correctly, they are quite tolerable),
the cheap ones 'cut' and don't seat well


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> thanks for all that NoXid
> 
> nice idea, but not my cuppa tea
> 
> ...


you can't get more comfortably then I went:Soft silicone material provides unparalleled wearer comfort

http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/porta...369UJT2UU4000000_nid=67L0TCFB1TbeZ2F9CWGGTPgl

That's almost the same I would rub my face at silicons blihbluhblah  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlWyMPFwEI8

If you worked in lab you know all of what is needed, but more like for info if anyone else wanna check
it out.

I really do like it, and it wasn't so expensive. You get 2x2 filters if you buy in airbrush store.
https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/3M-7500-Half-Mask-Airbrushing-Pack-3M7500ABK.html#SID=23


If you got an option to try it somewhere pick size Medium. It's almost for all people unless you got very big head or kid is wearing it. For kids they got small size.

airbrush colors are waterbased unless you go urethane, but you don't need to. Waterbased colors are great and there really is no need to go urethanes.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

that is exactly what i was thinking seacookie

i'm checking the local used sites for a setup
most people seem to like the badger or iwata

i can't decide for trigger or dual,
i've done alot of spray-bombing from cans
so does that mean i would be more comfortable with a trigger?

one more question:
i have a small 2.5 gallon compressor for pin nailing,
can i just use this or are the smaller compressors preferable?


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> that is exactly what i was thinking seacookie
> 
> i'm checking the local used sites for a setup
> most people seem to like the badger or iwata
> ...


If you will do practise sheets you will be ready in one weekend. Probably sooner. I am not talking about free hand. Stencil work is easy. You will get feeling fast for stenciling. But you can help yourself at start with that preset handle which I linked before. Around 20 bucks. I am using it when I don't wanna risk to destroy my work.And also I love doing coloring books.  Great for practise. But it is hard to say how much time you need for it. Stenciling is easy if you know how to stencil. I will find you a link what girl after only 6 weeks of airbrushing is doing in free hand :
edit:link removed
she started to airbrush 6 weeks ago. Look at her free hand damn -.- But I started the thread today how much time airbrushers do per day their practise. That girl did each day for 6 weeks from 19h till 23h

You wanna dual trigger. I went with Iwata. Iwata are like more expensive ones if you compare them to others, but for t-shirt art they are not expensive. You basically get a workhorse for not so much money.

I went with Iwata eclipse hp-bcs 0.5 needle. This is bottom feed, you can quickly change colors, you just detach first bottle, spray a little cleaner and u attach the other bottle and you ready to go. Side feed and gravity feed are little more complex. You need to clean the cup if you change the color. 

Later I bought Iwata eclipse sbs 0.35 needle if I remember correctly side feed. But you have option to use 0.35 needle with bcs or you can use needle 0.5 with sbs. To adapt one of those brushes for new needle you need also nozzle. That's total around 25 bucks.

Eclipse series is good cause their nozzle flows in air, so you don't need to mess with the nozzle, plus they are made the way you can shoot almost everything with them. I am very satisfied with them. People do like gravity feed, but I didn't went gravity feed. T-shirt artists mostly use bottom feed eclipse hp-bcs

You need moisture trap on your compressor or small one which you attach on your brush. that's like 8 bucks. Quick connect is nice, so you just connect your airbrush or disconnect fast. Those are like 10 bucks. you need one dental brush, the small one for the place between the teeth. Good for cleaning your airbrush.That's 5 bucks. You need spraying pot for cleaning,that's like 15 bucks or you make your own.

The hardest part is to see how much psi you like and how much you like to reduce your color. I am reducing right now 1 drop of color with 5 drops of reducer(I also use windows cleaner as a reducer- it's cheap. But no ammonia, so it can be used with airbrush. Ammonia kills seals. Americans use windex without ammonia for cleaning.)

You need reducer 5-10 bucks, transparent base if you wanna try on dark t-shirts, and colors 8 bucks per bottle 60ml at my place, 960ml bottle is 60 euros.

I am gonna calculate your gallons to liters and I will tell you.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

2.5 gallons is enough for start. Your compressor will be turning more often, But I was on 8 litres for 6 months without a problem and that's 1 litre smaller then yours. Mine had from fridge compressor so it was quiet. If yours is loud, move it to the room where you are not airbrushing.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Free Tutorials Archives - Page 5 of 5 - airbrushtutor

this is all what you need and some nice color books so you don't die doing only dagger strokes  Before you print color books, turn black color to 30% transparency, so you still see where you need to color stuff, but you will better see what are you doing. 

Those are all advices if you decide to try it. Plus there are guys which will give you bunch of usefull information and motivation. But like I sad, stencil work is easy if you know how to make good stencil for your goal.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

One more thing. You can go with cheaper airbrushes but soon you will buy better. I didn't have that problem, but I seen lots of people did. 

this guy is one of best in t-shirt airbrushing. He uses only eclipse hp-bcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXRki97m09c&t=198s

check time 1:17 to see his setup. Crazy


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> one more question:
> i have a small 2.5 gallon compressor for pin nailing,
> can i just use this or are the smaller compressors preferable?


Bigger tank for air you have, more air reserve you have, less your compressor will heat cause it will work less. But you and I are not like that T-shirt guy I posted. So you will be good with 2.5 gallons. But you wanna have tank. Cause if you don't have it, airbrush can spit color cause that small compressors can't handle it.It can't handle the same flow of air constantly. If your compressor has tank you are good to go.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Still wondering if this could be done on t-shirts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3WZNSGBsoc

I wonted to buy pinstripe brushes, but I didn't manage to do that yet. Not to mention I didn't research much about pinstripe either.

in the middle of this video I think guy makes black t-shirt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg7QLW0KrQw


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

wow!

that volleyball tee turned out awesome

not a bad setup if you are just starting out,
but if you are serious then...

kidding aside, those are some good videos to watch just for the creativity and passion displayed

thanks again seacookie

i am now kinda leaning towards a new iwata to start with,
see what i can find this summer


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## kostasfmx (Apr 19, 2017)

This thread is so interesting !Keep it going!


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

I had a little free time today so I went and try to put that spiderman on black t-shirt. Here is the result.





I loved comics when I was young  Now when I am older I love movies.This t-shirt is for me. So don't go all bananas on copyrights  I will probably add spider logo on chest. And maybe make few corrections. I had a good time doing this one. I put music on loud and spraying paint. Listening to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beFSTGAh4lY&t=1260s


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

too late, fbi/interpol alerted

(that is really good work)


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

Looks good, seacookie


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXid said:


> Looks good, seacookie


Home made slave dtg


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Spiderman was done with stencils and airbrushing SeaCookie?


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Spiderman was done with stencils and airbrushing SeaCookie?


With oramask and airbrushing. Made few photos, ill put it on. I did use later regular tape for carpenters cause I made a mistake and exacto. And I do need to correct one line yet and the boot on the leg. It is blue color not red. I will use oramask for that.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

I think it looks amazing!! I would love to see pictures of your stencils. I havent been able to find a video of someone who does a whole image with oramask or stencils...


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

here you go Shallena66, I see you are interested in a process

weeded oramask. 


transfer vinyl on


preparing t-shirt


laying white underbase


colorign red color and shading and highlighting


the blue parts I used exacto and carpenters tape. I covered eyes, so basically it's just white underbase on eyes. I was planning to add metallic silver on eyes, but I was to sleepy so I went to bed. I would change few stuff if I would do this again. I hope I answered your question good enough.


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Thank you!! That is great!!


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Thank you!! That is great!!


Yea I know 
Np Shellena. Thinking about going in to airbrushing?


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Yes... I am... I love the idea of being able to use stencils because my hands shake. I saw a video quite awhile ago where a guy did a whole painting of a dog using stencils... it really was awesome... havent been able to find it again but this discussion has brought that idea back....


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Yes... I am... I love the idea of being able to use stencils because my hands shake. I saw a video quite awhile ago where a guy did a whole painting of a dog using stencils... it really was awesome... havent been able to find it again but this discussion has brought that idea back....


 Well spiderman with oramask never again. Weeding was pain in the we know what. If I would do something similar I would use mylar and stencil bridges. Cause this was just to painfull for me  

Yep stencils are used quite often. But the real money is in free hand territory 

Edit:there is a girl on you tube, she has problems with her hands. She wears splints for both hands. But that girl is pushing her limits. I tried to find it for you, but unfortunately I couldn't. We have on one forum even one master which needed to relearn how to hold airbrush cause of illness. So, sky is the limit.


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Yes... I am... I love the idea of being able to use stencils because my hands shake. I saw a video quite awhile ago where a guy did a whole painting of a dog using stencils... it really was awesome... havent been able to find it again but this discussion has brought that idea back....


found it, check her channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ4OvtkH1kg&t=4s


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Watching her now... oh my gosh... I could sit and listen to her accent all day! lol


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Watching her now... oh my gosh... I could sit and listen to her accent all day! lol


she is doing small details work like eyes on little figurines. -.-


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

> ...i've found new tricks, new tools, which make it possible for me to find a way to be artistic.


that is a great quote from that video above (suits me to a tee)

she sounds irish, all the good/best people of the world have irish in them
a mix of irish and ukrainian being the pinnacle of humanity

edit: seacookie has been helping me in the background with beginning in airbrushing,
and he has shown me the light (in regards to the actual airbush)
start with what will be your airbrush in the end (iwata), spend a little more now 
then you have learned and grown with what you will use throughout your airbrush journey


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

Shallena66 said:


> Yes... I am... I love the idea of being able to use stencils because my hands shake. I saw a video quite awhile ago where a guy did a whole painting of a dog using stencils... it really was awesome... havent been able to find it again but this discussion has brought that idea back....


One more thing if you can use it. When you airbrushing, you don't do it with wrists movement.. I am gonna find you a video and check if this would be ok for your case.

here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uva48ab1J6o


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## seacookie (Apr 29, 2015)

into the T said:


> that is a great quote from that video above (suits me to a tee)
> 
> she sounds irish, all the good/best people of the world have irish in them
> a mix of irish and ukrainian being the pinnacle of humanity


 there are many people with disabilities and they are airbrushing. I was very surprised when we talk about that on forum. Cause work of theirs are pure masterpieces. You adapt, push and conquer. There are rules like robotic movement from video, but if you can't, no panic use wrists. More you will use it, better you will be. If your hands are shaking put splints on or something. I am talking nonsense now, but I did realize when I started, that many of best airbrushers are pushing their limits. And they are very creative with ideas how to solve some problem.
You also hear a lot from them, that you need to challenge your self all the time if you wanna be better. But this goes for everything in life.


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## gulfsidebill (Feb 28, 2019)

I use screen printed plastisol heat transfers that are backed with an adhesive powder on all shirts colors including black. The adhesive powder blocks garment dye migration. When an adhesive backed transfer is applied properly (follow the heat transfer application instructions) the result is amazing! Adhesive backed transfers provide superior opacity over other types of screen printed transfers and have a softer hand than HTV. NO WEEDING! Thats a huge plus for me. There are several transfer printers who offer adhesive backed transfers...ask for samples, test them, then you can be the judge. Speaking from 45+ years experience Good Luck and Keep on Pressing!


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