# Hat Troubles



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

I have been having a heck of a time trying to embroidery caps lately. The thread just keeps on shredding about every 50 stitches or so. It is the same design I have used before for hats and the same types of hats that I used. I have tried different brands of hats, a different design, different thread, new needles, re-threading the machine, adjusting tensions, cleaning bobbin area and upper thread guides. I am able to do flat embroidery designs perfect. It's just the caps that are getting me. I have also removed the cap driver and looked for any defects. There are none that I can see. 

I just did a large order of hats and now I have another large repeat order. This just started happening after the tech was here to replace a broken klinker. I should have had him run a cap test while he was there. I didn't even think of that until now. Any suggestions anyone?

Missy


----------



## shirleyg (May 3, 2008)

My first thought was: The eye of the needle is jagged and needs replacing.

Sounds like you've changed needles though.


Could be lousy thread. ???


----------



## NiceThreadsLLC (Mar 20, 2012)

Maybe presser foot is set too high? Or would the taller needle plate insert help? The 'wings' on the cap driver can also be moved into 'up' and 'down' positions.


----------



## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

I would look at how much distance there is between the needle scarf and the hook point. It might be a tad tight.


----------



## oldstunt (Mar 22, 2008)

The needle plate for hats is in place, and the presser foot is in the raised position. Also we keep the wings on the cap driver moved to the in position all the time works good for us.
Are you getting a lot of flagging when the cap is sewing?
What speed are you running your caps? Some caps need to run slower and some designs need to run slower. Back the speed down a bit and see if it helps.
If your flats are running fine. My first look would be at a few of these things.


----------



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the hints! I will try these things when I am able to get back to embroidery. I am currently at my "real" job for the next 3 days. I will report back on how it goes. 

Missy


----------



## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

I agree that is sounds like the thread is bad. Are you using rayon thread? Have you embroidered a "problem" hat design with the same thread on the same needles on flats? Does the shredding occur in the same place in each design? Putting old thread in a freezer for a couple of hours can add moisture into it and revive it.


----------



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

I use Madeira Polyester thread. I have tried using a different color and still get the same results. I am able to stitch the design out using the flat hoop and thread with no problems. As I have said, this is a design that I previously stitched with no problems at all. I am currently using a 80/12 size sharp needle. Do you think using a 90/14 size sharp would make a difference? Previously I used the 80/12 for the other hats that I done. The shredding occurs throughout the whole design. I have skipped ahead to other parts of the design and the same thing happens. I don't think the cap was flagging too much on the machine. I am running the machine at 500. I will back it down and see if that makes a difference. 

Missy


----------



## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

I wouldn't increase the needle size. 500 is slow. When you run too slow that can cause problems. I would increase your speed to 580 and you'll still be running slow for caps. Does the shredding occur on all needles? Have you cleaned out under the needle plate? Is the eye of the needle turned too far? I'm thinking its something that's slightly off so that when its added with the additional flagging caused by caps you have shredding thread.


----------



## NiceThreadsLLC (Mar 20, 2012)

Or maybe the needle isn't going through the exact center of the needle plate hole?


----------



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

I was able to mess with the machine this morning after work. I was able to get one hat design to stitch out with only 3 thread breaks and only 1 birds nest (the best lately) running the machine at 650. 

Prior to this problem this was the situation. I completed an order of 50 caps with no problem what so ever. When I went to use the flat embroidery hoops I hit the hoop which caused the klinker to break. I had a tech come and fix that part and the machine was up and running. He retimed the machine and also make some adjustments to the needle bars (not exactly sure what he did to be honest). We were able to run many test designs with no problems with the flat hoop. I also finished up some other projects that needed done with the flat hoop. Now I have a repeat order for some more hats. I put the cap frame on and it has been nothing but trouble with thread shredding. I am able to run the machine perfectly at full speed when using the flat hoop. Since I was having trouble with the cap hoop I retimed the machine and replaced the rotary hook just in case. I am certain that the timing is perfect (not my first time replacing the rotary hook and retiming the machine). 

The cap embroidery is shredding the thread no matter what needle I have it set to run on. I have tried new needles (making extra sure that they are fully seated in position and the eye of the needle is perfectly straight.), different thread and different brands of thread, different caps and different types of caps, all with the same results. Like I've said, I've ran caps many times before and never had this trouble. I have also made extra sure that the cap driver is on correctly and the cap and frame are hooped correctly. 

I talked to a tech on Thursday and he was suppose to call me back. Never received a call back and didn't have time to call them on Friday. I will have to call them again on Monday. Right now I am just soooo dumbfounded on what is causing all these issues. The tech that I did talk to on Thursday mentioned something about the needle timing and specified to me that the needle timing was different than the rotary timing. He never elaborated on that statement as he was going to call me back. 

When the tech was there to fix the klinker we only tested flat embroidery designs. I now wish that I would have had him test the cap designs as well just to make sure that everything is working properly. 

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions and help!!

Missy


----------



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

Another quick question, Is the wings of the cap driver suppose to be slightly above the needle plate or even with the needle plate?

Missy


----------



## oldstunt (Mar 22, 2008)

We keep our wings placed to the in position. Our needle plate is slightly higher than the cap frame wings. 
You will figure it out, it will probably be some little thing when you get it done.
Yep the world of easy money..........


----------



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

The wings on my cap driver are about 1/4" above the needle plate. I'm not sure if I am able to adjust them (running a ZSK Sprint 5 machine). I have a call placed to tech. Waiting for them to call me back. Thanks everybody for all your suggestions. I'm sure it's some little thing that I am overlooking 

Missy


----------



## oldstunt (Mar 22, 2008)

We have run zsk for 10 years now and my guess is the cap attachment is not mounted correctly. Check the bottom 2 wing nuts were the attachment mounts to the machine. I'm thinking that you have the cap attachment mounted wrong and it is holding the front of the attachment to high above the needle plate.
Or guess number 2 the cap attachment has been bent up a bit from being dropped or tweaked on something.
But whatever it is the wings should not be above the needle plate. This will create needle deflection and a lot of the issues that you are having.


----------



## uniformatee (Jun 28, 2010)

Maybe your foot or the bobbin plate has a little burr on it. If you take a little nail file and just file the bottom of the foot and the bobbin plate it removes those. You cant see or feel them but they are there.


----------



## seekeroftftruth (Jan 27, 2015)

I´ve had this problem with a bunch of customers caps. I didn´t make it flat enough. Result was: Needle broke, again and again. I violently flatened the distance between surface of the cap and the "stitching point" and it worked well, even at higher speed. I often have to fix customers materials radically.


----------



## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Seeker, could you elaborate on that please?


----------



## mwehling23 (Feb 16, 2012)

Wanted to let everyone know that I have got this problem resolved now. I talked to a different tech and he told me that the eye of the needle should be pointed slightly to the left (this is the opposite that the other tech told me from the same company). Also he had me adjust some pantograph parameter settings. According to him, the setting had to do with how fast the pantograph moves in relation to the needle going up and down. Everything is running perfectly right now! Thanks again for everyones input

Missy


----------

