# Sublimation on Dark garments



## InspiredImp (May 29, 2008)

I was talking to my embroiderer a couple weeks ago and he was talking about a new sublimation printer he was thinking of getting.
He said it would print white and could be used on darks. He said it was $2000-$3000. It sounded to me like he was talking about a DTG printer, but he insisted it was sublimation.
Does anyone have any idea what he would be talking about? I didn't think such a thing existed.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

You are correect it does not. Must be DIG


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Agree w/Dave...I have been in sublimation printing for about 9 years...have never heard of sublimation on dark...when you think of the process...which dyes the fabric...not setting on top... you can see why it is not there..


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## InspiredImp (May 29, 2008)

Yes, that's exactly what I thought. I figured the only way it could be possible was if the white ink was actually a bleach. But that would result in inconsistent results I figured, so it didn't make any sense to me.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

even with a bleached area...or a white transfer...would not work since sublimation must be on 100% polyester...whte or light pastels


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## TexSub (Aug 27, 2007)

Ask him if this is Al LaCostas laser sub. ATT transfer is Al's company. The white toner really isnt dye sub but the other colors are. Kind of a multi run through the printer(s). Havent heard a lot of good stuff said about it but some people have had success with it.


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## InspiredImp (May 29, 2008)

I'll check with him. I sent him a message yesterday to remind him that he was supposed to be following up with me. I'm curious to see his reply.
But he's not a computer guru, so it may be another couple days yet before I hear.


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## fl3afly (Dec 15, 2008)

can we use sublimation in cotton ? How it works ?


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## InspiredImp (May 29, 2008)

No, sublimation only works with synthetics. If you want it on cotton you have to use a poly/cotton blend or a specially coated cotton.
Using polyester is just easiest.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Even with a blend the results are not great...you have to remember that sublimation is not really a transfer but a dye. when the process is completed, the sublimation inks bond with the polyester fibers...it will not bond with cotton...so looks good when first done, but when washed it looks very faded and as you wash...more and more of the color on the cotton goes away...the color on the polyester fiber will remain in full color but the image suffers as it is not a full image


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## fl3afly (Dec 15, 2008)

how if we use some coating or medium paste inks like in the screen printing to cover the cotton ? some people ask me to do it so...??


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

using screen ink does not work with sublimation...remember sublimation will only bond with polyester fiber.. if you want to use cotton..try some of the laser papers for color...I hear that imageclip has a paper for ink jets but I have not used nor observed the results


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## aries (Mar 18, 2007)

Can one do sublimation on a black auto tag?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

you cannot do sublimation on ANY dark..it is only for white/some pastel that are polyester..or hard surface that is polymer coated......oh yes..there are those who say you can sublimate on blends...you absolutely cannot...if you do..sublimation will bond with the polyester..and the part ON the cotton will wash..so in my opinion I have never seen a print on a blend that is commercially viable...unless you want the grunge or faded look..


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## aries (Mar 18, 2007)

Is this sublimation?If not what and how is it done?Thanks

Manchester Terrier Personalized Pet License Plate - eBay (item 330272294072 end time May-16-09 12:31:13 PDT)


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Yes the plate is sublimated.


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## aries (Mar 18, 2007)

skdave said:


> Yes the plate is sublimated.


I thought sublimation was for lights only?How can these be sublimated?


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

The plate is white to begin with. All the color you see is Sublimated onto the plate. We print white shirts that come out completely colored everyday.


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## InspiredImp (May 29, 2008)

It might be sublimation. There are lots of products available with a polyester coating. Usually they are ceramic, glass or stone. But acrylic might also work if it had a high melting point.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

the lic plate seems to be something like unisub FRP w/polmer coating...some that I have often used in sublimation


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## Custom Tags (Apr 19, 2011)

A question we have about the dye sub is why does one color change to another color after pressing. For instant last week we needed to make a purple on a yellow 100 percent polyester t shirt. the colors came out fine from the printer but after pressing onto the yellow shirt, it turned a brown color and lost the purple completely. would anyone know why?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Easiest way to think of dye sub and colors is think of going to Home Depot and taking two colors of paint (the shirt and the ink) and mix them together. In general terms that is what your results wil be.


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## Custom Tags (Apr 19, 2011)

That was about what we just figured out. Took a piece of yellow clothe and did some testing on it purple became maroon blue became purple red became orange/red and green. Stayed the same


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

I saw a embroider mixed with sublimation at the ASI show in chicago last month. might be the confusion. was really cool for embroidery. have a nice night uncletee.


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## ddante (Aug 2, 2011)

Custom Tags said:


> A question we have about the dye sub is why does one color change to another color after pressing. For instant last week we needed to make a purple on a yellow 100 percent polyester t shirt. the colors came out fine from the printer but after pressing onto the yellow shirt, it turned a brown color and lost the purple completely. would anyone know why?


dye sub colors are transparent, purple+yellow=brown
green on yellow still green because it is 100% Cyan+100% yellow
your shirt being yellow it works as 100% Y


Sent from my iPhone using TShirtForums app - ddante


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## Custom Tags (Apr 19, 2011)

Wish we had know this before we made that yellow shirt with the purple letters last week. The girl was very dissappointed with the shirt but loved the license plate. 

Now we know how the dye sub works. I use to have a business where I had to mix liquid vinyl to match the vinyl on car seats and other vinyl. That is going to come in handy for getting the colors right with dye sub

Thanks


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Custom Tags said:


> Wish we had know this before we made that yellow shirt with the purple letters last week. The girl was very dissappointed with the shirt but loved the license plate.
> 
> Now we know how the dye sub works. I use to have a business where I had to mix liquid vinyl to match the vinyl on car seats and other vinyl. That is going to come in handy for getting the colors right with dye sub
> 
> Thanks


Best thing to do is to use color swatches and get some actual light color garments of each color you intend to sell, then just print the swatches and transfer over each color of garment. This way you know in advance how the colors will mix beforehand. Keep these for reference.


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## Custom Tags (Apr 19, 2011)

Sounds like a great idea. That is what I will do.

Now if I could just figure out what is going on with my heat press.

This is what happens. We come in and turn the heat
press on. The light comes on telling us its on. Then nothing happens.
The temp light doesn't come on nor the minute light. We used to wait
and wait and wait for something to happen. Then we noticed that this
only happens when it has been a chilly night. So I thought maybe there
might be an internal heat sensor in it. So that is when we started
using the hair dryer to heat the back of it up. Then in comes on and
stays at the right temp and we don't have any more problems til the
next chilly night.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Start white end up any color you want with Dye sublimation


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## ddante (Aug 2, 2011)

skdave said:


> Start white end up any color you want with Dye sublimation


hi, what kind of press do you use and warh's size?
Blak t-shirt looks nice on pictures


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## Custom Tags (Apr 19, 2011)

It is a stal z maxx


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Crushing premade shirts with full colors is going to give what most people would consider below average results. You can create designs in which white is left in the trouble spots around the collar and arm pits. 

You can make full blown cut and sew shirts for maybe $1.75 more than a pre made shirt and end up with far superior results.


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## ddante (Aug 2, 2011)

Riderz Ready said:


> Crushing premade shirts with full colors is going to give what most people would consider below average results. You can create designs in which white is left in the trouble spots around the collar and arm pits.
> 
> You can make full blown cut and sew shirts for maybe $1.75 more than a pre made shirt and end up with far superior results.



Infact I was trying to identify those defects on the pict above, all over print doesn't come out as well on premade shirts.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

ddante said:


> Infact I was trying to identify those defects on the pict above, all over print doesn't come out as well on premade shirts.


You have to design around the problem. If you design around the problem areas they look fine. Trying to turn a whit shirt into a full color shirt does not provide high end apparel results.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

ddante said:


> hi, what kind of press do you use and warh's size?
> Blak t-shirt looks nice on pictures


We use a double platen 40x64" maxi press. Air driven.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Riderz Ready said:


> Crushing premade shirts with full colors is going to give what most people would consider below average results. You can create designs in which white is left in the trouble spots around the collar and arm pits.
> 
> You can make full blown cut and sew shirts for maybe $1.75 more than a pre made shirt and end up with far superior results.


"Crushing" is the correct word Mark. We sell ours for $12-$15.
Our C&S's run $25.00.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

skdave said:


> "Crushing" is the correct word Mark. We sell ours for $12-$15.
> Our C&S's run $25.00.


Not really concerned about selling price although you seem to be going after the very low end and proves how there is no money in crushing shirts.

The cost of a Vapor or comparable shirt is around $7.00 to the door. The cost to make a blank cut and sew short sleeve shirt is $7.75.


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## cainer77 (Oct 12, 2011)

on the one shirt how did the person turn white shirt to black with the design? new to sublimation but i think shirt looks cool i understand the white is the shirt and the logo i assume is another print. thanks for the help


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

cainer77 said:


> on the one shirt how did the person turn white shirt to black with the design? new to sublimation but i think shirt looks cool i understand the white is the shirt and the logo i assume is another print. thanks for the help


Watch this video ...

Allover T-Shirt Printing with Dye Sublimation - DyeTrans.com


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Mark , 
Lucky for me your numbers are nowhere near my numbers, Hence my low prices.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

skdave said:


> Mark ,
> Lucky for me your numbers are nowhere near my numbers, Hence my low prices.


Lucky for me we do not do t-shirts so the cost to buy a Vapor shirt means little to me. The comment was simply addressing the general market as a whole.

What you seem to be always missing is your numbers, excluding buying cheap shirts, are no different than 95% of people in wide format. There is no special magic wand in wide format pricing.

I will readily admit that I am a dye sub snob. I thrive on high end apparel and what people can come up with up. It is exciting and inspirational. When I see low quality apparel with voids, cut and sew with gathering around seams it reflects poorly on the entire market. It astonishes me to this day people will post such pictures as a representation of their work. I have a folder full of pics from this forum that we use to show prospects the difference between professional work and throwing a jersey together. That is why we never sell a short sleeve jersey for less that $35 in quantity. 

The perfect example is the person who shared their niche in horse racing. People see that kind of quality and learn it is dye sub they are attracted to process and increases opportunity for everyone in the market. 

Just my opinion which is most likely in the minority but competing with screeners, and vinyl pressers with price hurts the overall dye sub market.


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## Custom Tags (Apr 19, 2011)

We have a Stalzs Mighty Maxx.


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