# Outline or Underbase??



## deltsigjoe (Sep 11, 2008)

Hello All,
I am working on a 2-color design. The garment will be orange or gray.
The design is 2-colors (body color + white outline). I don't have too much experience with multi-color designs. Should I lay a white underbase for the base and then lay the main color on top (leaving the edges to make a white outline)
or 
should I just lay an outline, then the main body color. Please see my picture below. The bottom design is my desired output. The 2 above are the 2 options: Outline or underbase??


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

Depends on how well your press holds registration I guess. If it was me, I would butt register the colors with no underbase, high opacity blue and white. But it might be easier to underbase I guess. I just hate underbasing and avoid it whenever I can. That's just me though. No way is right or wrong. Whateve works best for you is the best way to do it.


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## killroy (Feb 16, 2014)

I would go with the white underbase. Use a higher mesh screen for the blue and lay it top. A thinner coat of the blue will make it pop with the white. I love to use an underbase when I can. The opacity of the blue would be fine by itself, but the shirt could dull it out some. The easy way isn't always the best way.


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

killroy said:


> The easy way isn't always the best way.



You're right about that, I should have said - whatever works the best way for you and gives the DESIRED results is the best way to do it. 

But in this case the easiest way - which (for me) would be using an underbase - might be best for most.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

killroy said:


> I would go with the white underbase. Use a higher mesh screen for the blue and lay it top. A thinner coat of the blue will make it pop with the white. I love to use an underbase when I can. The opacity of the blue would be fine by itself, but the shirt could dull it out some. The easy way isn't always the best way.



Up until 3 weeks ago I would have said use a under base print flash print and top coat with blue Using proper ink and proper separations a better quality better looking print is obtained with blue and a outline. I switched to Union maxopaque inks and even printing most colors on a charcoal shirt were 1 hit on a 205 mesh. Attached is a print all colors 1 hit except the hot pink which required a print flash print. No underbase nice coverage with a light hand result.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

as your first multicolour, i'd suggest doing the p/f/p, especially on a red shirt. you will have less registration issues and will give you good experience for the future.


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## Black Arts (Dec 10, 2012)

I would butt register and then print the blue through a 180 mesh with a nice based down ink, then white through a 156 mesh wet-on-wet. Then flash and hit the white one more time to make it nice and solid/bright.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> I switched to Union maxopaque inks and even printing most colors on a charcoal shirt were 1 hit on a 205 mesh.


The inks are really that good?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

ShirlandDesign said:


> The inks are really that good?


One of the best things I have done since starting besides the roller frames. What's great is I all maxopaque ink but on lights or where I have white and decide to under base they sell a extender base that turns it into standard plastisol which makes it cheaper then standard

I have only underbased 1 job since switching.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

John supposedly Kolor Matrix has some damn good high opacity inks. I am going to check them out they are really cheap and a few members have expressed good results although not sure if they were using the high opacity or standard plastisol. Only bad thing is they seem to never answer emails.


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## Donofmiami (May 19, 2010)

The right way to do this is to use a white under base / flash the white , then pass the blue with a higher mesh above the base. This way the blue will pop and it won't smear with the high mesh.


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## Donofmiami (May 19, 2010)

Kolor Matrix does have good inks, but there cheap inks are standard plastisol. There High opaq inks are very expensive and we tend to still need a base with most of there high opaq inks. High opaq inks usually are not reduced and have white added to form a thicker better base for the darks.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

sben763 said:


> they sell a extender base that turns it into standard plastisol which makes it cheaper then standard


I've been doing this for quite some time. I buy only Maxopake ink (in the colors it comes in) and add the extender to it for printing on light colors. And you can add a whole lot of it without affecting the coverage. I usually mix almost the same amount of extender as ink. I even add it to Ultrasoft colors like black and Ultramarine.

As far as the underbase, one thing I'll add is that (in the case of an outline) it makes the set up and registration easier. I'd take the quantity into consideration and tend to underbase it for a shorter run, butt register it for a longer run.

Some people halftone the overprint area of an underbase at 80% or so, claiming that it gives the print a softer feel. I tried this a few times and did not notice a difference. Others would print this as a three color job using a highlight white for the same reason. I don't do this because a properly printed opaque white comes out quite smooth and thin on the shirt. It doesn't need to be bullet proof to be opaque.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Donofmiami said:


> Kolor Matrix does have good inks, but there cheap inks are standard plastisol. There High opaq inks are very expensive and we tend to still need a base with most of there high opaq inks. High opaq inks usually are not reduced and have white added to form a thicker better base for the darks.


Which high opacity are you using? They have 2 diffrent ones. You say expensive but even the super opacity is cheaper then the Union Maxopaque. 

As time has progressed I wil say technique has a lot to do with inks maintaining their opacity then I ever thought. Yes some ink have more pigment but if you smashing the ink into the shirt then the opacity will be reduced. I ve tried the Ryopaque inks with poor results where I had to print flash print. Their pink is the worst. I had to print 4-5 times to be happy with it. Union print flash print. The example above everything else was a single hit on charcoal.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> I will say technique has a lot to do with inks maintaining their opacity then I ever thought


I have used Maxopaque but it's been years and I'm more than sure they've come a long ways since, (not to imply any lacking on their part back then, I was pretty green). So I'm thinking one pass to kill the weave of the shirt and lay the second pass on the top? Also how does it thin up after working it, when I imagine pounding white through a higher mesh screen my arms start to ache. lol Also when you say technique how do you pull white through a higher mesh screen without applying a lot of down pressure? Guess I'm still pretty green.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Also when you say technique how do you pull white through a higher mesh screen without applying a lot of down pressure? Guess I'm still pretty green.


You want to use a slower, firm and steady stroke to shear the ink layer through the stencil, rather than heavy downward pressure to drive it through. When the stroke is just right you can literally feel the ink layer shearing through the mesh and onto the shirt. As long as the blade makes good contact with the mesh (you'll know when a stroke leaves the stencil clean...) more pressure won't result in any more ink getting through.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

And i'm sure you need a sharp squeegee and a tight screen, how many of you guys have a squeegee sharpener?


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

ShirlandDesign said:


> And i'm sure you need a sharp squeegee and a tight screen, how many of you guys have a squeegee sharpener?


Not me. I use a blade for a year or so, turn it upside down and use the other side for another year or so, then buy a new blade for about $10.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Manual printing you wont wear out squeegees very often. Tight screens aren't needed but IMO they make it so much easier. I use all Newman roller mesh at about 40N and I can tell you when printing if I have one drop to about even 20N I can tell a big difference. Another option is S mesh for the static users. it doesn't need to be high tension. I used it in the rollers and had 2 statics. I find the Newman at high tension to be more durable then the s mesh at the lower tensions but if your someone that can be careful I can see working well. 

I printed for several years before I felt that cutting/shearing when printing, I practiced and found out that changing the angles, pressures you can continue to feeling the shear as I print. I find the hotter the shop gets I have to drop the angle or I don't feel it and the edges can start to get blurry if too high angle or too little ink if too low when pushing the squeegee. I tried pulling put requires a more unnatural felling to me, hurts the wrist and much slower. Another consideration in the whole scheme of everything is Stencil thickness, I do a 2/1 but can obtain A EOM as if I was doing a 2/2 or a 3/2 without the build up on the back of screen which IMO doing just enough EOM on the back of the screen to crosslink with makes it easier to shear the ink and doesn't require as much pressure. I also find if you don't flood hard enough then it will often require a second stroke without flooding

There are a lot of variables but if you find what works for you and adjust as the variables change you can obtain the 1 hit on darks with opaque ink. . After I felt that shear the first time the next stoke it wasn't there. I had to adjust to start getting it. I then spent time just test printing when I had time.

What works for 1 person doesn't work for the next, different pressure vs. the angle can greatly change the other. I should state I use a 60-65 durometer squeegee which will deposit more ink the a 70.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> I use all Newman roller mesh at about 40N


It's been a while, but getting up into the low 30's seemed like a trick. Do you have a piece of equipment, or just a flat table and some hand tools?


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

sben763 said:


> After I felt that shear the first time the next stoke it wasn't there. I had to adjust to start getting it. I then spent time just test printing when I had time.
> 
> What works for 1 person doesn't work for the next, different pressure vs. the angle can greatly change the other.


Yeah. Manual screen printing is really an art (or I guess a craft) more than a science. There are numerous different techniques, including pulling vs pushing the squeegee...and I've only tried pushing it it a few times before giving up when I couldn't get anything close to decent results...but I know many others do it this way and would say the exact opposite.


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## jeron (Jul 16, 2012)

sben763 said:


> ShirlandDesign said:
> 
> 
> > The inks are really that good?
> ...


So have you ever tried their mixopaque line? I am going to switch to union also but am trying to figure out if i should go with maxopaque, or mixopaque. It would be nice to mix my own colors


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

They only diffrence in the 2 is you can mix colors. I have a gallon of mixopaque as they were out of a color so I got a gallon of the closest mixopaque as they are ready to use inks. Been thinking about the mixopaque and ordering a gallon kit but you end up with tons of small amounts when mixing inks. I had one of the ready to use mixing systems by international and I eneded up with a full rack of mixed inks. The only way I am offering that agian is to charge like I am now $35 charge per color for pantone matches.


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## Donofmiami (May 19, 2010)

Im not sure, we ordered a gallon of red for $90. On black shirts we still needed to flash like 4 times.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Donofmiami said:


> Im not sure, we ordered a gallon of red for $90. On black shirts we still needed to flash like 4 times.


Which ink are you referring to? Mesh you used?

If you are referring to any of the Union, mixopaque or maxopaque, I would be looking into something in your process. One of the biggest mistakes and I made it myself and like using them was using a triple durometer 70/90/70. If you want to use a triples 60/90/60 will deposit more ink. I use a single 60-65. Using Newman roller mesh 166-205 I can get a one hit with most colors with union. 

If your referring to the Kolor Matrix I haven't tried it yet and there have been review both ways.


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## Donofmiami (May 19, 2010)

I was using a mesh count of 110. The ink I was talking about was the Kolor Matrix high opacity red. We used a 70 duro. We started ordering high opacity from Miami silkscreen supplies. There our local supplier, they have great prices and there High opacity red and yellow so fat worked great for me with a single flash and no underage.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

ShirlandDesign said:


> And i'm sure you need a sharp squeegee and a tight screen, how many of you guys have a squeegee sharpener?


Yup, I'm a screen printer, of course I have a squeegee sharpener.

I would do a white underbase, white outline then drop the blue in...


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> Yup, I'm a screen printer, of course I have a squeegee sharpener.


You may have noticed that one or to of the other screen printers don't. 

So Sean, do you get your Newmans up to forty with a stretch table, or just a flat table and a couple of wrenches?



> Yeah. Manual screen printing is really an art (or I guess a craft) more than a science.


I wear a lot of different hats, so I may not touch the press for a week. In the middle of a two or three hundred piece run I can get pretty zen with a squeegee, a week later and not so zen.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

If this is to far off topic I can re post, but I did a print job with a white underbase and halftone on top to simulate chrome. I pulled the halftone on a pellon to see how clean it was and it looked great. On the underbase it definitely picked up an interference pattern. By itself on a test shirt still OK, but I had to get pretty nit picky on the production run for it to even come close to the test pellon. Any tips from you all day every day squeegee pullers?


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

ShirlandDesign said:


> You may have noticed that one or to of the other screen printers don't.


Yes, and you may have noticed a number of "printers" on here claim authority, yet clearly have no idea what they're talking about, or are misguided at the very least.

I print on a wide variety of substrates not just T-shirts and I sharpen my squeegee before every job. That's just the way I was trained and it's just the right thing to do. 

After I got my auto graphic press the sharpener was my next purchase, even before I got a shirt press.

I've talked to lots of ppl who don't sharpen their squeegees, but that doesn't mean you don't have to. One shop nearby told me that they replace the rubber every time they get dull... Uh... almost 3 bucks an inch?? Do that once and there's the cost of my sharpener... Makes no sense at all.

Sharp squeegees are just as important as tight screens and they DO get dull.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Actually I was looking for a dialog on the pros and cons, not entrenched opinions implying a diminished professionalism on the part of some of the other printers here generous enough to share their experiences and ideas with the community.

Share in a good spirited sense, not as a statement of their immense and obvious superiority. 

Let me put it another way. I'm more than sure you have done your part. Worked hard, listened to others, spent time you weren't getting paid for to advance your knowledge and skill sets. And as such we'll assume you've reached a level of ability that allows you to claim authority. And frankly I can only think of one poster on the forum who actually came out and claimed authority.

So Bob in Saskatoon is giving it his best also, working hard, learning as best he can, but just can't quite rise to your level of achievement.

Rather than sneering at Bob and basking in your spot at the top, has it ever occurred to you to be grateful for your blessings, and put a little water back in the well?

Just a thought. 

p.s. the most gifted and knowledgeable people here share for the most part without reservation, and with an over abundance of good will.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

phatdaddy said:


> Yes, and you may have noticed a number of "printers" on here claim authority, yet clearly have no idea what they're talking about, or are misguided at the very least.


I don't believe I fall into that category, as I have been screen printing for over 30 years, and have owned my own shop for 12 years. I certainly have never claimed to be an authority on anything.



phatdaddy said:


> One shop nearby told me that they replace the rubber every time they get dull... Uh... almost 3 bucks an inch??


3 bucks? I pay 40 cents an inch for a blade. Even if I buy a new squeegee, handle and all it's less than $1.50 per inch.



phatdaddy said:


> Sharp squeegees are just as important as tight screens and they DO get dull.


This is true, but in my opinion a squeegee blade will retain its useful edge for many many thousands of strokes. I used to sharpen mine with a piece of adhesive sandpaper stuck to a block of wood, but quit doing it once I decided there wasn't a noticeable difference in the print.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

phatdaddy said:


> Yes, and you may have noticed a number of "printers" on here claim authority, yet clearly have no idea what they're talking about, or are misguided at the very least.
> 
> I print on a wide variety of substrates not just T-shirts and I sharpen my squeegee before every job. That's just the way I was trained and it's just the right thing to do
> 
> Sharp squeegees are just as important as tight screens and they DO get dull.


I think the target was on my back. Yes squeegees do get dull but manual printing I can show from a microscope the the wear is very minamal. See you were taught, maybe right maybe wrong, that's not up for debate as I have posted so many times what works for your shop doesn't work for all. I do know auto shops that run the sqeegees once a day. I use to do mine every 30 days. Now 1 time a year unless there is a dull one. I don't do a large volume as I go after the higher end, and a few schools. I print all year but most of everything is April thru September. In that time I print enough for a entire years pay check. The rest of the time I spend testing, researching and coming up with new things to try. 

I know Neil does similar exposure stuff like me. I take it further but had I listened to what is taught I wouldn't be where I'm at. For example I will expose 85 LPI on 166-205 mesh while retaing 7-8% halftones on 166 and 4-5% on 205. I'm told regularly this can't be done. Well not only have I done it but many of times. Did 55LPI ON 128 and didn't adjust the low range to 5%. To my shock the low range was there. 

I know someone asked about the Newmans. I am on my 7th year with them. First 4years all manual just a meter and a wrench. I found loosing the bolts slightly and as you tension the mesh 1 bolt will always tighten if you don't over loosen it. I watched the newman videos but tweaked it to work for me. I did buy a shurloc manual table and used it for 1 year. I think Jay @teledotees is still using it. I found a old Newman table the LX model before it advertised going up to 23x28, which I modified to accommodate them and had it shipped for $500. The reason I like the shurloc and the Newman table is I will leave the bolts loose then let the mesh sit under free tension. Sometimes for days. This lessons the need to retension. When I did manually it would take 8-10 retension to get work hardened. Now 3-4 and once work hardened no retensioning. You can make it easy on your self if you can obtain a level table put 4 blocks where the corners are and c clamp it down while tensioning. If you look at the Shurloc table one could do a DIY build on that design.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Donofmiami said:


> I was using a mesh count of 110. The ink I was talking about was the Kolor Matrix high opacity red. We used a 70 duro. We started ordering high opacity from Miami silkscreen supplies. There our local supplier, they have great prices and there High opacity red and yellow so fat worked great for me with a single flash and no underage.


I think I'm just going to stick with the Union anyway. Since switching have only underbased 1 job and has increased production during my busy times so I am only working 8 hrs a day in the screen shop. I have another business that has been my primary income which I work 40 and sometimes a lot more. This year the income from each business is going to be close and I only work 20-40 hrs a week max and take the winter mostly off. If it continues I will be done with the other business in the next year or 2.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

ShirlandDesign said:


> You may have noticed that one or to of the other screen printers don't.


In all fairness John, you're the one who brought the rocks to the playground... You had my opinion already, which was pretty clear and invited me to elaborate.



Ripcord said:


> I don't believe I fall into that category, as I have been screen printing for over 30 years, and have owned my own shop for 12 years. I certainly have never claimed to be an authority on anything.





sben763 said:


> I think the target was on my back.


No Sean, Neil this vitrol was not aimed at you. John asked, I answered. And frankly John you can stick that whole rant back at me up your ***, I'm not "claiming superiority" over anyone.

I think we may all be a little raw after that colour sep thread...



Ripcord said:


> 3 bucks? I pay 40 cents an inch for a blade. Even if I buy a new squeegee, handle and all it's less than $1.50 per inch.


Well, I was a little off... I hate to spend money, so I tend to round up... My guy:1.85 for rubber, 1.00 for the handle, 7%gst. That's Canadian dollars... Still, 2 bucks an inch at 20 feet... screw that, I'll buy a couple rolls of film.



Ripcord said:


> I used to sharpen mine with a piece of adhesive sandpaper stuck to a block of wood, but quit doing it once I decided there wasn't a noticeable difference in the print.


Lol... Yea, always good to have one of those around... I use to get my sandpaper from the dumpster of a local cabinet shop. They had really long rolls of great sandpaper.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> I'm not "claiming superiority" over anyone.


I didn't bring rocks, I brought the expectation of a dialog about different approaches to a common goal, which devolved into a pi$$ing contest in large part because of your snotty attitude.

And to their credit most people didn't bite.




> Yup, I'm a screen printer, of course I have a squeegee sharpener.


Definitely snotty. So look, maybe I was less than patient after that color sep bunch of krap, sorry I hate bullies. 

Sean has a valuable opinion, and so does Jeff, but Mitch the guy I suggested to the OP on color seps wrote it all down front to back. If Jeff writes a book I would buy it also. 

"of course I" implies a simple minded neglect of things not worth repeating. And why would you drag that mess (the color sep melt down) into what started out to be a civil discourse on technique?

And lastly, when people start posturing for alpha dominance (authority) questions are left unanswered, like "I'm not happy with the halftone I printed over an underbase last week, any idea's?




> You may have noticed that one or to of the other screen printers don't.


 was a fairly gentle way of suggesting that your opinion is just one voice in a chorus.

Like most people here I fall in the big middle when it comes to experience, as far as who is *THE BEST*, don't care. At a certain level of experience all you guys who have been at it for a lifetime have a valid and valuable contribution to make.

Lot's of people have stated that there are many approaches, as I have stated before "I'm all ears".... well and a little mouth. lol


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

Interesting perspective John. You helped out the OP how exactly?

Oh, that's right, you didn't. You just hijacked this thread with drivel.

Never did I try to call anyone out, best anyone or try to assert my superiority. I told you my opinion. Perhaps it was "snotty," but you are the one who made all sorts of assumptions and judgements about me and you're calling me an arrogant, mean-spirited, simple-minded bully??

You can stick that rant up there with the last one if you have any room left.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

OK boys, I don't think we need another one of these...unless you guys have juicy life stories to tell before you revolutionize the whole screen printing industry

I for one would just butt a white outline with the blue and call it a day...but I don't make a living doing this stuff I just find it to be a fun distraction from my meaningless middle-aged consumer driven life.

Cheers!


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> You helped out the OP how exactly?


By opening up the discussion to include the context in which Maxopaque allows printers to avoid an extra screen, possibly a flash, and at least touching on the techniques that are needed to achieve a good print. 

These inks don't work in a vacuum, there are also tools and techniques to consider.

The sharpener was more of a small aside, not a hijack. The screen tension question definitely relevant, Phat drug the color sep thread into this, and... oh hell I've lost track. 

Oh, now I remember, half toning on an under base. You start with no under base, really, way cool. What else should I consider in addition to some really great inks?

But what if you have no choice? A little off topic I'll admit, but I just had a print run where that came up, and it was at the front of my mind. 

So, is a segue poor form? 

BYTW, Sean, thanks for the Newman info, perfect.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> before you revolutionize the whole screen printing industry


People who are crazy enough to try and change the world, are the people who end up changing the world.


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## HumbleShirts (Sep 7, 2007)

All the banter previously aside, I would lay an underbase, flash and hit with a WOW blue ink (WOW wet on wet type, meaning not a MAXOPAKE or OPAQUE SERIES INK) and then hit a top white outline. Perfect print. Don't print the blue on a super solid, PFP white underbase and expect to get a durable print. Your blue would likely not bind because you would then be printing plastisol on a solid plastic base coat of white. It would wash or flake off.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

The unions maxopaque are considered a WOW ink and work very well doing so.

There is no problem with P/f/P and putting a blue over top. Everyone's big mistake here is under curing. You need a lot more dwell time to fully cure. I have print when I first started that are still perfect and were P/f/p/f underbase and top coat. If done right the thicker ink last longer then thinner ink.


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## jeron (Jul 16, 2012)

Does the maxopake do WOW out of the can, or do you add something to it? 

Thanks,
Jeron


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## HumbleShirts (Sep 7, 2007)

No. WOW refers to a standard plastisol ink that is not made to be super opaque. Like comparing the Wilflex brand of Epic Super National Red to the regular EPIC National Red. One is made to be more opaque than the other and generally meant to print on light colors and some darks without an underbase. Using it as a top color will more often than not result in proper buildup on the bottom of the screen and lead to a "orange peel effect rather than a smooth print. Opaque inks are just less viscous by nature and don't "peel" well from the bottom of a screen when wet.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

1-2% extender is recommended. A small amout of reducer also can be used if too thick. The extender will reduce the tack. Some think it reduces the ink but it's thinner due to the mixing. If you let it sit it will be just about as thick as out if the can unless a reducer is added


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

HumbleShirts said:


> No. WOW refers to a standard plastisol ink that is not made to be super opaque. Like comparing the Wilflex brand of Epic Super National Red to the regular EPIC National Red. One is made to be more opaque than the other and generally meant to print on light colors and some darks without an underbase. Using it as a top color will more often than not result in proper buildup on the bottom of the screen and lead to a "orange peel effect rather than a smooth print. Opaque inks are just less viscous by nature and don't "peel" well from the bottom of a screen when wet.


You better look again. Union maxopaque are labeled as WOW inks. Just means wet on wet. They do very well. Most opaque inks aren't labeled for WOW.


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## jeron (Jul 16, 2012)

HumbleShirts said:


> No. WOW refers to a standard plastisol ink


WOW(wet on wet) is a printing process, not an ink. Some inks are formulated to print better using the WOW method, and they are usually the standard plastisol. 

You could print using the WOW method using any ink. But your results will vary depending on the ink. 

Thanks,
Jeron


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## lvprinting (Sep 23, 2014)

> [quote name="ShirlandDesign" post=2659922]The inks are really that good?


One of the best things I have done since starting besides the roller frames. What's great is I all maxopaque ink but on lights or where I have white and decide to under base they sell a extender base that turns it into standard plastisol which makes it cheaper then standard

I have only underbased 1 job since switching.[/QUOTE]

I had a bad experience with Kolor Matrix's opaque fluorescent green ink. It bled through every single underbase and looked terrible on every shirt color I tried. 

I personally use Union for most work and their high opaque has been consistently good.

Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


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## thuongnguyet (Oct 23, 2012)

Hello everybody! I'm from VietNam, i working at AoThunNhaTrang.com !
I think:
1. Only one color (white or blue): This method is very low cost, but it not beautiful if you use water base ink, it good if you use plastisol ink!
2. Underbase (2 color): This method is good and beautiful, but It take some you time (i usually use this method), if you use this method, your underbase must over and second color is override, don't trim!


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