# customer hated my work



## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

I recently did a job for a customer and he hated my work. 
24 total shirts...This is the breakdown....

*A*. _design 1_ on front center 16"x 15 ", _design 2_ on sleave ( 13" x 3" ) 
-4 white shirts(L,XL,2X,3X) with 2 ink colors on both designs..Black & Grey 
-4 white shirts(L,XL,2X,3X) with 2 ink colors on both designs.. Red & Grey
-4 Grey shirts(L,XL,2X,3X) with 2 ink colors on both designs.. Black & White 

*B.* _design 3_ on top center under collar 19" x 8 ", _design 4_ on right sleave 4" x 4", _design 5_ on left sleeve 4" x 4" with 2 colors on all 3 designs
-4 yellow shirts(L,XL,2X,3X) with 2 colors on all 3 locations..Black & White
-4 white shirts(L,XL,2X,3X) with 2 colors on all locations...Black & Green
-4 white shirts(L,XL,2X,3X) with 2 colors on all locations...Black & Grey
Also Tags Printed on inside of shirts....
All this in a rush and for a giveaway $ 318...And I shipped them FREE. 

He hated all of them and does not want the shirts. He said he wants me to give him his money back less $ 100 for my time. 

I have to say , I thought the shirts came out awesome. My teen and his freinds loved them so much that they wanted me to make some for them(which I did not)

I spent 20 hours on this job, between color seperating the pictures, burning 7 screens, cleaning screens to change colors between each color change.........tags.

What would you do to remedy this. Do I tell him send them back and just give his money back or what. 

This guy emailed and called me 3 x's a day just to see how they were coming along. I even sent him pictures of the work as I finished each design and color change. [media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/1.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/2.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/3.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/4.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/5.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/6.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/7.JPG[/media]
[media]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1249984/tag.JPG[/media]


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Wow I too think they look good. What exactly did he say that he didnt like? Do you have pics of the artwork he sent you. That is actually a fairly cheap price for that low of quantity and the amount of setup you had to do. I think the reason would have more of an impact on what I would do. If they dont represent the artwork he sent you, I could see his problem. I guess I dont exactly understand what his problem is with them.


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## CSS (Sep 15, 2008)

WOW I think the shirts looks awesome. Unfortunately there are some people out there that are not going to be happy no matter what you do. If I were in the situation I would only offer to refund half the money since you have all that time invested and not to mention the cost of the shirts, ink, etc....
Good Luck and keep us posted!


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

Thats why we do approval system they sign on dotted line! If needed they can do a press check "we call it" to see what the first one looks like. One other thing we do is count all the shirts before they leave with them. Its allways the small orders that call back saying we shorted them!!! but if you count them with them they admit they didnt order enough. 

If it was me I would just keep the money tell him thats what he ordered and dont do business with him again! Some times people are just better off going some where else. ALso there are people out there that do think that if they complain (even when it looks great and you did what they wanted) That you will cut them a deal. Again i would just ask them to go some where else.


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> If they dont represent the artwork he sent you, I could see his problem. I guess I dont exactly understand what his problem is with them.



Make them Approve everything! Most mistakes are a result of miscommunication between you and your customer.


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## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> Wow I too think they look good. What exactly did he say that he didnt like? Do you have pics of the artwork he sent you. That is actually a fairly cheap price for that low of quantity and the amount of setup you had to do. I think the reason would have more of an impact on what I would do. If they dont represent the artwork he sent you, I could see his problem. I guess I dont exactly understand what his problem is with them.


This is his email.....

"I am thoroughly disappointed with the shirts. When we talked in the beginning, I explained to you exactly what I wanted and what quality I was looking for. If you can look at these shirts which blotches of paint missing from portions of the designs, globs of paint stacked and dried on the shirt, etc and say this is store quality then you have a serious problem. I left you a voicemail and heres you email. I don’t want the shirts and I want my refund asap! 

You can subtract the shipping and your paint cost and send me $275 that’s $100 for your time. The job may have took a while but if you know you couldve have provided store quality you shouldve have wasted our time. Your know my number? Ill be looking for your call."


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

Did you have him approve anything?


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't see anything wrong with those. It seems the customer is a chump. Who gives him the right to tell you the amount of refund you should give him? You need to take power of the situation and let him know whos boss, otherwise people will continue to run over you.


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## Emeraldimages (Mar 28, 2008)

nice work i agree i'd keep the money and cut your loses because of your time and materials ink does not grow on trees neither does talent


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

Ok i think he wanted all over printing when you had screen printing over the sleeve it left more ink then it would on a shirt. We do not print on the seem cuz it doesnt work with or equipment maybe just give him a refund and move on to the next customer. 

No refund without him sending the shirts back!


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## 90chevytruck (Aug 24, 2007)

I personally would not wear them because its just not my taste. 

But I do think they came out very good. If that was what he wanted and if I were you I would just keep the money and never do business with him as well.

I just don't think its right for him to ask for his money back after all the work you went through. 

Its true, if the customer isn't satisfied because something you did wrong then thats when giving the money back comes into play. But if thats the way he ordered thats his fault not yours. 

I can't believe people can think they can just change their mind for no reason.

Good luck


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Tell him to enjoy the shirts. You did fine work.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Man, I hate that!!!!! Damn shirts look good! I know the amount of time and work that went into that job. Next time charge a lot more. Also-this is advice to myself also- get a press check or some kind of approval to cover your bases. It's just impossible to please some folks. As of this morning, I started taking 100% pay on order.

I recently did a job of 100 white tees with a full color image. I burned 5 screens- 4 color process plus a white highlight screen.... It didn't work. I redid the artwork simulated process with 6 screens, set the job up, played with the ink for half-a-day, fedexed a sample out of state....
then finally did the actual order a week or two later- burned 6 more screens.
The customer was not satisfied, but we thought the shirt was beautiful.

See if you can reason with the customer, ask him to show the shirts to some folks and ask them what the objectively think of the shirts. If he's still unreasonable, it's your call. I don't think he deserves his money back, but it's your headache this time. Good luck. And you did an EXCELLENT job.


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## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

buy4now1 said:


> This is his email.....
> 
> "I am thoroughly disappointed with the shirts. When we talked in the beginning, I explained to you exactly what I wanted and what quality I was looking for. If you can look at these shirts which blotches of paint missing from portions of the designs, globs of paint stacked and dried on the shirt, etc and say this is store quality then you have a serious problem. I left you a voicemail and heres you email. I don’t want the shirts and I want my refund asap!
> 
> You can subtract the shipping and your paint cost and send me $275 that’s $100 for your time. The job may have took a while but if you know you couldve have provided store quality you shouldve have wasted our time. Your know my number? Ill be looking for your call."


Sounds like a real upstanding citizen there... 

based on the designs, and that email I can kinda tell who you're dealing with... some punk @ss wanna-be thug

my favorite part of the whole deal: "The job may have took a while but if you know you *couldve have* provided store quality you *shouldve have* wasted our time."

where'd he learn how to speak? let alone type or structure a sentence?

Anyways, I have two questions:

1. Who provided the art? (my favorite saying in the business: "sh*t in, sh*t out")

2. Did he sign off on some kind of proof? If so, he isn't entitled to any refunds

Good luck


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## pegasus69 (Jul 31, 2007)

I feel so bad for hard working entrepereneurs that have to go through this kind of experience! Customers seem to think these shirts just "pop out" of some magic cauldron on their own. Unless they have any experience themselves, they have no clue the amount of time and effort that goes into producing a custom product.

I would make darn sure I got ALL those shirts back, because I would want to know what this customer sees that I missed. I would want to show the shirts to other t-shirt makers in person and let them feel and scrutinize them. Not any of his "objective" friends! I would need to sit and think if he has a valid point while I go over them with a fine tooth comb.

I would bite the bullet and be professional and give him what he wants this time. I would apologize and be courteous to his face. (What you say about him after you hang up the phone can't hurt you in the business world) Bad word of mouth can cause problems for your business though. There is a statistic about every dissatisfied customer telling at least 7 people about it. 

But don't just stew in this, you got to learn from it. In the future, get an artwork fee and authorization form, maybe a first piece sample or non refundable deposit--whatever.

I would make sure I updated my business plan or whatever for any future possibilities of this happening again.

Then I would take those great shirts and sell them to your sons friends  to recoup some of the loss!

Also, there's always eBay--great way to advertise what you CAN do.

We all live and learn. That is just what I would do, even though it would nearly kill me! 

Let us know how you handled it!


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

buy4now1 said:


> This is his email.....
> 
> "I am thoroughly disappointed with the shirts. When we talked in the beginning, I explained to you exactly what I wanted and what quality I was looking for. If you can look at these shirts which blotches of paint missing from portions of the designs, globs of paint stacked and dried on the shirt, etc and say this is store quality then you have a serious problem.quote]
> 
> ...


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## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

A Perfect Pixel said:


> Anyways, I have two questions:
> 
> 1. Who provided the art? (my favorite saying in the business: "sh*t in, sh*t out")
> 
> ...


 He provided the art.
I emailed the same pics you see, and he said that they look great.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I would not give a refund. I know someone else said they will tell others but you know what they may still do that and you will be out the money plus get the bad remarks so just keep the money and tell him he provided the art and said the shirts looked great. Do you still have the email where he said they looked great?

I try to always email instead of speak on the phone so I have record of every conversation. I have over 11,000 emails  but at least when I need something I can look back and find it


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

sounds like the guy had cold feet or he needs the money for something else... the shirts look great to me...
I would give him the money back... less the 100 
and sell the shirts to the kids you said thought they were cool.... maybe even make more money that way... and never do business with the loser again...lol... and make sure to get everything in writing in the future so you will have full recourse... good luck


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## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

Thank you all for your input and encouragement. 

He is in a different state, so his approval was from the pictures.

My next problem will be that he paid his deposit and the balance due via Paypal. All he has to do is complain and Paypal will take the money back.


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

in that case... it sucks but try and hold him to the 100 dollars at least... and get written contracts in the future... 

it's a good lesson for everyone... there are customers with no honor or scruples... (as well as some business owners also lol) documentation to cover your self


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## Robin (Aug 28, 2006)

buy4now1 said:


> Thank you all for your input and encouragement.
> 
> He is in a different state, so his approval was from the pictures.
> 
> My next problem will be that he paid his deposit and the balance due via Paypal. All he has to do is complain and Paypal will take the money back.


 This factor really stinks. I would suggest you tell him to return all the shirts and you will refund his money less the cost of shipping, or you will redo the shirts but only if the return the originals at his cost. He obviously wants a good deal, and by bullying you he may get one.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

buy4now1 said:


> Thank you all for your input and encouragement.
> 
> He is in a different state, so his approval was from the pictures.
> 
> My next problem will be that he paid his deposit and the balance due via Paypal. All he has to do is complain and Paypal will take the money back.


You can dispute that. If you provided product for the money in question, which you did, PayPal will probably not take the money. If it were that easy, everyone would be getting un-warranted refunds.

I agree with everyone else. I think they look good. You didn't mention if he actually wants to send the shirts back or if he just wants a partial refund because he's not satisfied. My guess is that he wants to keep the shirts but he's complaining to get a partial refund. If you do give him a refund, don't give him a dime until he sends ALL of the shirts back.


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## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

i would at least recoup the shirt costs... don't eat the entire job!

plus, since you gave him the shipping free, don't refund his return shipping...

i know it's a tough decision, but whatever one you choose is up to you

I still stick to my original reply


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

If he approved the shirts in the first set of pics, he "approved" them. How in the world would you know he wouldn't be happy after he said he was. I think, whatever his problem is, he's crazy to come back now and say this.

Also, if the guy is out of state, I would NOT be worried about bad word of mouth.

By the way, the deposit he make, was his deposit at least 50% of the job? What percent of the payment is via Paypal? 

Paypal will freeze the funds once he complains. You may be able to show Paypal he approved the order if you have the email, and you may win based on that, but, Paypal doesn't really give a hoot. That was my experience with them. It was down to us *battling* it out, while Paypal simply held the funds *frozen*, so neither of us had it. The other party probably had the merchandise (said it was lost, but it went overseas and my auctions clearly state I am not responsible for lost shipments that are not insured. It is clear and bold. Paypal couldn't give a hoot about terms.) Paypal freezes those funds until someone quits fighting. The other party quit fighting first, so I don't know what happens when both keep stating their case, maybe Paypal does decide it for you both.

Your problem will be with Paypal. I personally feel you fulfilled an order in good faith as the fellow approved the pictures. I don't think he should be given any refund, that is ridiculous.

But if he has his Paypal dispute button at his fingertips, the question is how much can he freeze on you? At the very least, if you do go with approving a refund, 50% of the job *should* be a non-refundable deposit to cover your costs and time. From what I hear, you did these low bid, so that may not work out for you, but yes, first he returns the shirts in the *same* condition that you shipped them in, second, he only gets refunds for what he returns, until he reaches the 50% mark.

You should always have the customer sign a contract showing they are aware of what your terms are, as well as what your return and customer satisfaction policies. Without that, you are here. 

This order will serve it's purpose to help guide you thru future orders, to help you avoid pitfalls in the future that can be turn out to be even more costly than even this order may turn out to be. 

Sorry this is happening to you, best wishes for a fair resolution. It should be fair to both of you, but mostly you, imo, since he approved the shirts in the pics. If he didn't like the blank, he should have made sure you knew what blank he wanted you to use. :/


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## blingqueen (Jun 29, 2008)

As long as the "transaction" was not conducted through ebay and you can show proof of delivery paypal will not take the money based on the customer unsatisfied w/ the product... i had a similar situation and they found in my favor literally within 30 minutes. I think this guy is under the impression or is at least trying to keep the shirts and get a discount on them by using a bully type of method claiming he is unsatisfied yadda yadda demading things on his terms while not once mentioning anything about returning the shirts!!! IF you do decide to refund I would state very clearly in a written form that before any money is returned he needs to ship the shirts back in their ORIGINAL unwashed/unworn condition with tags at his expense and highly suggest he use a carrier that can provide delivery confirmation as you will not be responsible for anything if the shirts do not arrive etc...


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## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

Well, It's only been like 2 hrs since he sent his email to me regarding his hatred of my work.... and he has already put in 2 paypal claims against me for both payments of the 50% deposit and the Balance.


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## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

Man, I would tell him to get lost. He provided artwork, approved everything, and now is coming back with an attitude like that and demanding a refund? Tons of ink changes, low quantities, all for only $318 ???? Wow


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## lancelot (Jun 1, 2007)

Hi jamie,This is the type of thing that used to make me want to quit, first off ,don't give him a cen't,I don't think you charged enough !,the job looks fantastic!!I can see how well you have done the over seam and coller printing. Everybody in the industry hates samples/short run stuff, he was lucky someone even took on the job (I am to lazy now days). Over the years I have done my share of these type of jobs,you never get a thankyou (well rarely) and if they do end up accepting it, it usually ends up bieng printed in china. There is nothing you could have done with a idiot like this, even with a computer generated pdf sign off, the end job always looks different (don't even get me started on colour matching issues). Most of the time they are wanabe fashion di*ks who don't know anything about the industy and under estimate time ,costs and the ease of the whole process. Don't give give him a cent (said again for affect),you realy don't have to,you don't owe him anything. I used to worry that malcontents would bad mouth me in the industry, but people know.
And how"s his form with that acid Email,who the Fu*k does he think he is, talking to you like that , I would never converse like that to any body (and I deal with 3rd party contractors ,late payers and very large sums of money),especially over somthing that trivial and in the first Email. 
He will eventually learn that he has unfair expectations, I have found this kind of person does'nt know what they WANT ,but they do know what they DON'T WANT! 
Good Luck


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## blingqueen (Jun 29, 2008)

At this point it sounds like he possibly intended to do "this" the whole time and get his custom shirts pay through paypal and then file a dispute! Fight it the whole way! Was this a transaction through ebay?


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## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

blingqueen said:


> Was this a transaction through ebay?


 No, it was through my website.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

I would go through the process with Paypal and see where it goes. He didn't really want to work it out with your or he wouldn't have already filed with Paypal. As long as you have proof that you delivered it, then I wouldn't take any crap from him. Sounds like he wanted high end production quality at a fraction of the cost. If Paypal makes you do something I wouldn't agree to much of a discount since that is what he is after anyway, then I would make him pay to return the shirts and I'd take your time with the Paypal process. He'll likely decide they aren't so bad if you inconvience him as much as he is trying to do the same to you. Even if it doesn't work out this time, at least you'll educate him to be sure he knows what he wants in the future before he orders.


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

dont give him nothing, lil punk the print look really good


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

buy4now1 said:


> All he has to do is complain and Paypal will take the money back.


Not if you remove your funds and remove the link to your bank account...LOL


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Well...unless there is something different on some shirts that isn't shown on these pictures and given that he looked at these pics and ok'd them.

I would just tell him he is SOL and to enjoy the shirts.

I certainly wouldn't send him anything without first getting all of the shirts back. Then, once you see the shirts...make your final decision.


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

treadhead said:


> Not if you remove your funds and remove the link to your bank account...LOL


lol nice take it then walk away slowly


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## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

This sounds like a total [edited], who not be satisfied if Jesus Christ made the shirts and they were the greatest shirts ever made.

Some people are just born to be cretins. I take orders for custom flags and have them made in China. The very first thing I tell people is that it takes 3 months to get the flags. It's all over my website.

I've had people say "no problem," then one month in they start demanding their flags and say it's taking to long. Or they wait a month until the screens have already been made and want to completely change their artwork for free.

Some people will be problems no matter what. I would tell this guy that their are no refunds and don't give him anything back. What are you supposed to do with his goofy looking shirts now?


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

buy4now1 said:


> Thank you all for your input and encouragement.
> 
> He is in a different state, so his approval was from the pictures.
> 
> My next problem will be that he paid his deposit and the balance due via Paypal. All he has to do is complain and Paypal will take the money back.



Send paypal the approval email you have then tell them there was nothing wrong with the shirts. other wise the damn guy might get the shirt and his money have they contacted you yet?


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## Timofei (Feb 2, 2008)

A lot familiar scenarios that I have encountered too. I would recommend if the client is out of state mail the sign off form that indicates his approval requires a signature on his part. 

99.9 percent of us want to do a great job up front but this protects us from the few customers that are problematic.


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## jeffie (Jan 30, 2008)

Hey, my two cents, first get the shirts back, second compare to your proof, third send the shirts back to him, forth cash the check or not,fifth LEARN THIS LESSON (education ain't free) (your cost of goods is probably less than $100). jeff


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## tqualizerman (Dec 9, 2006)

Was your customer ETM?


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## tqualizerman (Dec 9, 2006)

Tell the guy to go fly... with ballloons.


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## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

blingqueen said:


> At this point it sounds like he possibly intended to do "this" the whole time and get his custom shirts pay through paypal and then file a dispute! Fight it the whole way! Was this a transaction through ebay?


Yup, 100% Agree with this statement

Sounds like he's trying to pull a scam on you

You need to get your self some kind of proofing system in place! Some kind of document where the customer MUST sign off

At my day job, we send out PDF proofs of artwork and in the Message of that email we tell them to reply with the EXACT QUOTE of "OK TO PRINT" followed by their name and we make sure to print out both emails in case something like this ever arises.

This way, your @ss is covered... even PayPal couldn't dispute that

Also, I hope you have a receipt at least for shipping the goods.

Please show us what this retard posted on PayPal, i'm curious


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

buy4now1 said:


> This is his email.....
> 
> "I am thoroughly disappointed with the shirts. When we talked in the beginning, I explained to you exactly what I wanted and what quality I was looking for. If you can look at these shirts which blotches of paint missing from portions of the designs, globs of paint stacked and dried on the shirt, etc and say this is store quality then you have a serious problem. I left you a voicemail and heres you email. I don’t want the shirts and I want my refund asap!
> 
> You can subtract the shipping and your paint cost and send me $275 that’s $100 for your time. The job may have took a while but if you know you couldve have provided store quality you shouldve have wasted our time. Your know my number? Ill be looking for your call."


Funny that he says he doesn't want the shirts but makes no mention of returning them to you. I think he _does_ want the shirts but wants them basically for free. Ridiculous.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

This is a perfect reason NOT to use PayPal for business transactions. Like eBay, they just don't care. A CC merchant account provider always favors the merchant. The only way they will reverse a transaction is if the product was never shipped. If you keep a copy of the invoice and the shipping receipt on file, you have everything you need in case a customer decides he wants a "discount".


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

If you screwed up give him a refund. If thats what he ordered and signed off on the design he can enjoy the tees. I love the word paint in screen printing. As a printer you should give your expertise when dealing with over the seam printing as well as that line of text running up the short sleeve.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Too many people jumping to conclusions here. First it seems he's disappointed with the print quality, not the artwork. Second, this has nothing to do with paypal, if a customer contests the charge you are just as likely to lose with any other merchant.

The real answer is: there is no way we can tell you what to do based on a couple of pictures. I don't automatically assume every dissatisfied customer is a shyster, it may be easier on the ego but you should take all complaints seriously. Most people who complain are not trying to cheat you. Their complaint may or may not be valid in your eyes but that doesn't mean they are trying to rip you off. You've seen the shirts, you know your experience level, you know whether they were quality checked before going out the door.

I would tell the guy this... Send the shirts back and a determination will be made based on his complaints. If you find the complaints valid then you will reimburse him 100%. If the quality is not lacking then you will ship the shirts back to him at his expense. It is doubtful he will agree to this although it is reasonable. If he sends the shirts back and you are an inexperienced printer then I would take the shirts to someone more experienced and ask their opinion. If he refuses to return the shirts then you'll have to do your best to fight it out with Paypal. Trying to cheat Paypal is bad advice, don't assume that if you pull your money from your account that they will turn a blind eye and not turn you over to a collection agency.


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## KILLER (Dec 15, 2006)

wow.... this guy wants it for free ....the shirts are great .... his art work sucks..... he try to copy from off a tee line with the almost same style but with a hat mmmmmm better art work helps ....


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## jamaspea (Oct 15, 2007)

I think the shirts look great.... But i would not pay for em either, inside the collar is a character of pharrell and unless you got that cleared, its not yours to use. And I would not be able to sell it,

I am sorry you did all that work. get thing approved first and at least half the money up front.


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

This is what we would have them sign with there art of course!


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

HelpRunMyShop said:


> This is what we would have them sign with there art of course!


Nice form, but it wouldn't have helped in this situation.


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## skitzz (Apr 17, 2008)

Was this done with plasitisol? maybe he was looking for a smoother feel and look to it which you could have doen with either a waterbased solution or a discharge/plastisol combo...I think it comes down to communication. But, i wouldn't give him back the money. I think he just didnt know what he was asking for...and next time someone says they wants store quality, tell him it's gon cost him store prices...it's stupid artwork anyway...Most people have no clue how much work goes into something like this...


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## Tasha (Jun 19, 2008)

wormil said:


> Nice form, but it wouldn't have helped in this situation.


Well what would you suggest in this situation? Perhaps adding a section about "Returns/Refunds" and the limitations regarding these in this document? I too, need to fine tune my contract, as I recently had an issue with a client. Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## mrock (Nov 4, 2008)

If you outlined a return policy then you must follow it. Remember you can't make everyone happy all of the time, however, you do want to try to work with every customer. If you forwarded pics of your work and he had no complaints before you shipped the product then I don't see why your should take a loss. It is a fine line we walk but unless you feel you can sell the t-shirts elsewhere, I personally would not take them back unless he was specific and let you make it right.

Best of luck.
Michelle


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

Tasha said:


> Well what would you suggest in this situation? Perhaps adding a section about "Returns/Refunds" and the limitations regarding these in this document? I too, need to fine tune my contract, as I recently had an issue with a client. Any info would be greatly appreciated.



This is just a art approval. Return refunds is covered in your product approval forms so on.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Tasha said:


> Well what would you suggest in this situation?


Truthfully I don't know exactly what the situation is. We have an out of state customer complaining about print quality. Maybe the customer is a shyster, maybe the customer's expectations weren't clarified initially or maybe the print quality is bad. Without knowing, I can't really suggest a solution.

Just remember that unreasonable people are not deterred by forms and policies. Angry customers are not calmed by pointing to a policy. Long ago I stopped putting much emphasis on such things, instead I focus on clear communication up front (a good quote and proof form helps) and if I suspect someone may be difficult later, I put them through a few hoops before taking their job.


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

I didn't realize he had the shirts... that's bullsh*t... he is scamming you... I wonder if you can check with paypal and see if he has disputed any other purchases...? Tell him he approved by looking at the pictures and enjoy the shirts... have an attorney send him a letter about the approval of the pictures... 

take your money out of paypal...cancel the connection from paypal to your bank account... then if you still want paypal... make a new acct with a new bank... sucks to have to do that...

scammers suck and ebay is a cesspool now... good luck...


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## A Perfect Pixel (Jul 4, 2008)

Catbox said:


> take your money out of paypal...cancel the connection from paypal to your bank account... then if you still want paypal... make a new acct with a new bank... sucks to have to do that...


He probably can't, once a dispute is filed, your account is frozen


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## pegasus69 (Jul 31, 2007)

Just curious if you could expand on this comment:



Catbox said:


> "ebay is a cesspool now..."


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

A Perfect Pixel said:


> He probably can't, once a dispute is filed, your account is frozen


Yep, the $$ amount in dispute will be frozen. 

Another thing I find curious is the OP said the dude put a claim in for the deposit and the second payment. What about the $100 the dude did want to pay? He put a claim in for 100% of his payments, it sounds like. This is just bad business from a bad customer.


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## jmlampert23 (Nov 7, 2008)

treadhead said:


> Not if you remove your funds and remove the link to your bank account...LOL


 
i was just going to say the same thing. paypal is a way for the buyer to get stuff free. i have customers like that. actually they are not customers


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## krylonking (Aug 28, 2007)

I think he got a good deal, sent you a terrible design, and was expecting it to look amazing on shirts. Then he got the shirts, realized that you didn't change his artwork to make it a crooks and castle design and printed exactly what he sent you so no he's like damn I can't design a good shirt and this crap won't sell like I was hoping so I better try and comp some of my losses here by bullying the guy who did his job like he was supposed to. 

I think you might need to change some aspects of how you handle orders but I think you delivered what was promised. Fight him through paypal, dont settle otherwise you will be losing more money in time/supplies than anything else. If you honestly screwed up refund it, if not you deserve that little bit of money.

oh and if he did try and sell it, he would get his paper taken in a lawsuit by pharell or the designer of that bape style character. In fact if this kid really wants to mess around you could contact bape and say, I'm sorry I was not aware this was your character, but this kid has received these shirts and wants to sell a design with your character, go beat him up.. lol
good luck


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## jmlampert23 (Nov 7, 2008)

once again i feel you did the best you could with the artwork supplied. most people think that we as screen printers and graphic artists can make something out of nothing for no money. they dont understand how much time it takes to do what we do. i have been in the business for a long time and i am only 27 so i have seen a lot in my young age. they dont get what they were imaging in their heads and then blame it on us.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

jmlampert23 said:


> ......they dont get what they were imaging in their heads and then blame it on us.


Thats it. You said it. BullsEYE. 


As many here on the board know. Doing anything that involves *CUSTOM* also involves more risk. More so with new clients I find. Custom is a totaly different thing from selling *ready made* goods. So, yes, every so often these types of customers come our way.

short story:

One time i had a guy ask to print an xit transfer on his own hat. His hat was not the type that this transfer would work good because of the front panel seam on the hat. Anyway, this guy said he did not care how it turned out. So, STUPID ME said ok will print it (after runing it to the max NOT to print it for him). This guy would NOT leave and wanted the hat printed.

Printed the hat and of course, where the seam was there was a bump on the transfer. Not too bad mind you.

He comes to pick up the hat with a POssy of friends, makes a big stink to the audience that it looks terrible...goes on and on about. 

Had to through him out of the store.  ...I didnt even care about the $5 i was going to charge for it.


...this guy was nuts i later found out.


:


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## jmlampert23 (Nov 7, 2008)

T-BOT said:


> Thats it. You said it. BullsEYE.
> 
> 
> As many here on the board know. Doing anything that involves *CUSTOM* also involves more risk. More so with new clients I find. Custom is a totaly different thing from selling *ready made* goods. So, yes, every so often these types of customers come our way.
> ...


i love it when customers come in and want custom, one off items. i do my best work when i am asked to just go crazy with it but i always make them sign off on it and let them know that not ever shirt is going to be the same and to remember that there is no set way for it to be done.


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## InsaneIndeed (Nov 7, 2008)

what is wrong with those tees, they look great


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

Hehe this thread has now turned into a place where to vent about the 10% of customers that just dont understand what we do!


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

pegasus69 said:


> Just curious if you could expand on this comment:


it's just my opinion... 
Ebay started out as such a great idea... buy and sell without much worry...
and the scammers and con artists have ruined it...
ebay seems to be doing ok though... even without my endorsement...lol


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Catbox said:


> it's just my opinion...
> Ebay started out as such a great idea... buy and sell without much worry...
> and the scammers and con artists have ruined it...
> ebay seems to be doing ok though... even without my endorsement...lol


Actually they are not doing okay, they are doing very poorly. Their current (new) management has been heavily criticized for turning away their core customers and their stock has taken a beating (even before everything else started).


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

buy4now1 said:


> This is his email.....
> 
> " blotches of paint missing from portions of the designs, globs of paint stacked and dried on the shirt, etc "


I sure hope you didn't use PAINT on them. Another customer that doesn't know a thing about printing with INK. They look fine. Yes you may have some build up of ink over the arm seam unless you use waterbase/discharge but that is expected if you know about screenprinting. Tell him to have a good life and move on.


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## jmlampert23 (Nov 7, 2008)

once again i would not give him a dime. and if you were printing with waterbased and or discharge ink i would have charged a lot more money for those shirts.


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## maneverfix (Nov 8, 2008)

beautyful prints, kick that customer out and don't refund money


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## Billyboy (Apr 25, 2006)

Personally, I think you have to look back through your emails and discover if you provided exactly what he asked? (I would say ask him to explain exactly what he dislikes but probably wouldn't get a very constructive answer!).

It's all very well saying 'maybe he wanted a smoother finish with waterbased' but if he didn't stipulate this then theres nothing you can do, plastisol finish is what he gets! You can read people's minds!

Even with sign off forms etc. it's impossible to cover every variable, you just have to make sure you fulfil all the customers requirements that they actually ask for, if they didn't ask for certain things, then how are you to know what they want?

Ring Paypal, explain to them that you can prove you supplied a product that was what the customer requested and now they've changed their mind, hopefully you can back this up with emails, you might be pleasantly suprised with how they deal with it. He may even have a record of doing things like this with paypal that may help you out, sounds like the kind of person that would continue to try this!


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## ino (Jan 23, 2007)

Typical fly in the soup syndrome. As with all custom work customer always right you always wrong. No refunds.


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

what happened at the end? was there a refund?


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## jtannerc (Aug 20, 2008)

yeah... whats the status on this forum soap opera. After reading every post... i am disappointed to see there is no ending. I wants me a refund too.
jk... 
for some reason, the pics are no longer on here. Is there any way i can see them still? I am just curious now. Its sorta like watching and not actually being able to see the picture.

Either way.. interesting thread and some good advice from all as usual.
Thanks


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## leisure (Mar 3, 2007)

jtannerc said:


> yeah... whats the status on this forum soap opera. After reading every post... i am disappointed to see there is no ending. I wants me a refund too.
> jk...
> for some reason, the pics are no longer on here. Is there any way i can see them still? I am just curious now. Its sorta like watching and not actually being able to see the picture.
> 
> ...


I'm like you would like to know the outcome and see pics.


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

After reading all this I too want a refund unless I hear the ending 
and see the pictures of the shirts in question.

Hope everything went well and the money wasn't taken from you. Please let us know what happened in the end!!!

-Scott Lewis
Silk Screen Expressions


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## buy4now1 (Feb 26, 2008)

Well ... Here's how it ended... he paid me in 2 installments. 50% down on my company paypal account and 50 % before delivery to my personal paypal account. I told him to send them all back hoping he would just forget about it. He did send them back. He also filed the paypal dispute against me for a refund. Paypal gave him his 50 % down back off my company account. I closed my personal account before he could get that money back. I opened a new account after that . I sold them to a DJ that used them as free giveaways for $ 100. We then agreed to him getting the balance less $ 100 for some of my expenses and I sent him the difference. So in the end... gave him his money back less $ 100 and sold them to someone else for $ 100. I only lost my time.


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

those did turn out pretty sweet. I could see him possibly not wanting the buildup of ink on the seems, but ah well. 

although i think it was probably a scam you took the high road and did the right thing with sending him the money back. better to keep your reputation in good standing.

-Scott Lewis


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## leisure (Mar 3, 2007)

Greatzky said:


> those did turn out pretty sweet. I could see him possibly not wanting the buildup of ink on the seems, but ah well.
> 
> although i think it was probably a scam you took the high road and did the right thing with sending him the money back. better to keep your reputation in good standing.
> 
> ...


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## tjohnson34 (Jul 10, 2008)

i like design i dont like the t's because i dont like that brand other than that you have great work and if he wanted better t shirts he should have paid more money


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## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

Nice work... Good thing you did by taking the high road with the "customer".
In the future be on your toes.


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## seanzuber (May 30, 2009)

Well first off for being the paper boys that's not much money to ***** about. The shirts looked good from what I seen, they are not what I would buy for a rap shirt. 
At the same time it's good work and if they check art work and approved it before you printed then it's on them
not you. 

Just my point of view


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## erk (Jan 30, 2008)

should've signed off on a proof


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## jhallford (Feb 3, 2009)

I find it interesting that he hates the work, wants a refund, but is willing to pay you something. That is an admission of something. If you did not fulfill your contract, then he would be entitled to a full refund. He is willing to pay you something, and that tells me he just changed his mind. You keep the money, he keeps the shirt, and tell him no more business.


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## troylarson (Jun 10, 2009)

I would calculate every penny you spent on the job, subtract your costs, refund the rest, and thank him for his time. Sounds like a jerk, but it's the only responsible business-owner thing to do...


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## LushLoveTshirts (May 28, 2009)

they look quite good, take someone elses opionion and tell him too keep them tshirts =D


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## nativeera (Jun 4, 2009)

It's simple. 
Before you decide to print. Make sure you always show the customer, your layout and sample first. That way you can always adjust so they will certainly like the whole idea before any decisions are made as to whether it's okay to begin the print process.

Then make sure they pay the %50 requirement to begin the job.


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## kimostshop (Jun 10, 2009)

They look great! If he approved the artwork and signed off on it I would not give him a refund. If he didn't approve the artwork I would make that part of your process and I might do a small refund upon return of the shirts.


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## TODOTOCREATETOBE (May 29, 2009)

Make'em sign for this type of work! If they are not happy then so sad too bad. Sounds to me like you got scammed. It will be a learning lesson for you. The sucky thing about paypal is the seller usually gets screwed in the end. And ebay....well.....I know we have to be polite here. Try Bonanzle instead. Your work IS good. Don't let some buffoon tell you otherwise. Best of luck in the future!!


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Maybe you didn't read the entire thread, but there was no scam. He got the shirts back. The only way that it would have been a scam would be that he was out of the shirts and refunded the money.

Also, there really isn't any way for us to know how well the entire order of shirts came out. Yes, the pics look nice. But there were 24 shirts in the order, and there are only a few pics (some of them of the same shirt) to decide how well the shirts were printed.

Even from the pics posted (which do look nice on the internet), it's hard to tell if there are areas where the ink is thicker/thinner and met the expectations of the customer, and/or the agreed expectations the customer had made with the printer.

Rick made some very valid points earlier in the thread, and I agree with what he stated. The customer's issue was with the print quality, and it's almost impossible to tell the actual print quality of the *entire order* by looking at a small sampling of the order online.

The important thing is that the OP seems to have gotten the issue resolved without being out of all of the money and the shirts.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

I find it interesting that this thread is over six months old, but it still gets bursts of posts every month or so, and they're still spread pretty evenly over three opinions: keep everything, refund everything, and partial refund.


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## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

Do you have a forth option to share?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

AdVanceNetworks said:


> Do you have a forth option to share?


My point wasn't that those three opinions are wrong (they're not). I find it interesting that this issue divides people so much. Most things will split people between two viewpoints (not three) and less evenly (like 70% of people think _X_).

In this case, I don't think there's any kind of consensus. If anything it argues "Just do whatever you want, you'll be right/wrong either way."


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## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

Lol!

Good point, I must agree with on this if for nothing else ... You right!


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