# VersaCAMM VP-540/Solutions Opaque Problem



## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi everyone, I have been testing out the solutions opaque (I just got my VP-540 a few weeks ago), and it's great. I have been having problems with very pointy or thin text curling up (or being pulled up) as the cutter does its thing after printing. Even when weeding, if I (for example) cut a regular rectangular box with the VP after printing, everything is fine, but when I start to weed away the excess, either the corner pulls up, or the edges of the box sometimes pull up and curl in. Granted, I am weeding right after printing...

The thing is, I don't have any of these problems with the vivid print, which is a thicker (way thicker) material than the sol. opaque. From what I've been reading from other posts, the trick seems to be to cut first, then print; but with the sol. opaque material being as thin as it is, wouldn't the results be the same anyway? The font that I'm cutting is cursive, so there are some thin lines, but like I said, I tried the same print/cut with the thicker vivid material without any problems even when weeding.

Anybody can guide me through this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

Another thing, I follow the instructions from Imprintables Warehouse when applying the magic mask, but sometimes when I pull the vinyl off of the paper carrier, the vinyl doesn't stick to the mask, even if I squeegee it hard. Then when I'm trying to peel the mask off (after pressing), the vinyl sticks to the mask on some of the corners. I'm using the recommend temp./pressure settings from IW. So what gives? Josh makes it look so easy doing it in the YouTube vids... then again, I haven't seen him doing 10"x12" prints either.

The solutions opague is an awesome material, but the cutting/weeding/masking problems for large prints make it a nightmare to work with.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Joe, Opaque Solutions is an awesome material and can be a bit troublesome to work with until you get used to it. The trick with the print and cut problem is to cut first and then print second. To do this you need to set up your job in versaworks but under the cut tab, use the drop down menu and choose cut only. Make sure that you check the static box under it to return to origin or else you will not be able to print the graphic into the cut areas. run the job and it will cut all of the lines and then return to the origin. Go back into the cut tab and then change the drop down menu to say prit only. Run the job again. The print will go into the already cut areas. Viola!

The reason the the print curls up in the cut areas if you do not run it the way I described is that the Opaque Solutions is a very thin material and when it still has wet ink in and on it, it will want to curl and peel back. By cutting it first, you have removed the tension at those areas before the ink hits it and the tendency to curl is now removed. With color, vivid and other prints, the material is thick enough that it does not have this effect unles you are cutting a very small area. 

For the masking issue, if you get a leading edge to start up, you can get the whole area to come up. If there are a lot of small areas on the design it is better to mask before weeding and then remove it from the backing and weed out the small stuff. Its kind of like working with eco film at that point!

I hope all this helps!


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Steve. I was hoping you would be one of the members to reply, seeing from other threads that you really seem to have a grasp of the Roland as well as the materials from IW. Your explanations were wonderful, and I'll give them a try at the shop either today or tomorrow, and report back on it.

I was wondering if I might bother you for some other info Steve (or anyone else who may have the answer/solutions), when printing, the VP-540 usually advances the material anywhere from 4-6 inches before starting the print, even though I back the material up all the way so that the edge is right on the vacuum holes. Does this have something to do with the base point? I want to be able to start a print right after the edge, with maybe only an inch of waste instead of 6" of waste.

One last question (for now...). I did a wash test on one of my shirts which I applied solutions opaque to. I turned the shirt inside out, washed with warm water, mild deter., and hung to dry. The print looked kinda like how your fingers look like when you're in the shower too long... you know, all "pruny-looking" and stuff. Is this a problem that anyone else has experienced with the sol. opaque, and if so, was it because of a mistake done during the production process, or when you washed it?

Thanks for the help folks.


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

I just did a wash test on 3 different materials (solutions opaque, vivid print, and printable metallic). With the exception of the vivid print, the rest of the material shriveled like raisins. The print (ink) itself is fine, no degradation in colors; but its all shriveled! I swear, the headaches with the material don't stop!

The t-shirts were washed in warm water, and put in the drier on medium heat, with the exception of one of the sol. opaque prints that was hung dried after washing. Regardless of the drying method they still turned out the same. Is it the way that its being washed that's making it turn out like this? Or could it be the fact that I'm pressing the shirts right after printing that's making them turn out like this?

I thought that the metallic print being a thicker and heavier material than the sol. opaque would hold up in the washer/drier, but that came out like a dried raisin as well! The only print to hold up well under the same printing/washing conditions was the vivid print, but with such a heavy hand to the material, I know a lot of people wouldn't like the feel of an extra large 12"x10" square print on their back.

Can anyone shed some light on this situation? Any help would be appreciated.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Joe,
The advance is the machine bringing the material up to the optical eye at the front. This is to ensure it is past an edge on the machine to prevent the material from buckling up on the first inch or two while printing. I got frustrated also but unless someone out there has a better idea, it is something we just have to live with. I try to group print jobs together so I am not wasting material. 
On the issue of wrinkling of the prints, I have only seen that with really large prints and mostly on shirts that have shrunk after I wash them. The print material will adhere to almost anything you put it on and if that substrate shrinks, it will make the print wrinkle or "raisin" up like oyu said. try washing the garment first to make sure that it is preshrunk and then doing a test print. I am not a big fan of very large prints but have done them. IMO they tend to be troublesome with removing the mask and the "raisin" effect.

I hope all of this helps!


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## Screenanator (Feb 14, 2007)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> Joe,
> The advance is the machine bringing the material up to the optical eye at the front. This is to ensure it is past an edge on the machine to prevent the material from buckling up on the first inch or two while printing. I got frustrated also but unless someone out there has a better idea, it is something we just have to live with. I try to group print jobs together so I am not wasting material.
> On the issue of wrinkling of the prints, I have only seen that with really large prints and mostly on shirts that have shrunk after I wash them. The print material will adhere to almost anything you put it on and if that substrate shrinks, it will make the print wrinkle or "raisin" up like oyu said. try washing the garment first to make sure that it is preshrunk and then doing a test print. I am not a big fan of very large prints but have done them. IMO they tend to be troublesome with removing the mask and the "raisin" effect.
> 
> I hope all of this helps!


I fooled the optic eye by putting a post it note over it....sometimes I do that on my GX24 when it wont read the material on the backside eye....But I've since quit doing that....the little bit of waste wasnt worth the hassle....It's like that when we all start out we hate wasting anything...but soon you realize ...heck....just make sure the pricing reflects the waste and toss it and move on.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Ronnie - I couldn't agree more!


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

Hey Steve, just wanted to let you know that your cut then print method worked like a charm. I did still have some of the print curl up, but I'm guessing it's because some of the lines/edges of the font were very thin (like a ball point pen stroke). I guess I'll just have to use wider font from now on.

I understand what you said about pre-washing/shrinking the garment first before you press the print on, but with about a 130 shirts to print, I don't think it will be worth it for me to do that. I guess I'll have to resort to vivid print. Don't get me wrong, I love the print; just that the heavy hand characteristics don't sit well with many people. I'll have to save my sol. opaque material for non-shrinkable material like nylon garments or maybe 50/50 blend shirts.

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. If you come up with anymore ideas about what I else I can do, please add in!


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

Oroboy,

I think the high humidity in Hawaii also leads to some excessive curling. Usually when the reading is above 50% I take a look at the job list and see if we can delay a day or I open up windows and doors to see if I can lower the humidity. Running the heat press in a closed room really jacks the humidty up and the extra moisture seems to make the solutions opaque more prone to lifting off the carrier.

After scubasteve made his suggestion about cutting then weeding, that worked much better than the normal process but for all of our complex and fine weeding we mask first and weed off the mask. The only problem now is making sure we manage to get a good flat application of the mask because the air bubbles create little pressing imperfections when you go to finish your garment.


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

raise said:


> Oroboy,
> 
> I think the high humidity in Hawaii also leads to some excessive curling. Usually when the reading is above 50% I take a look at the job list and see if we can delay a day or I open up windows and doors to see if I can lower the humidity. Running the heat press in a closed room really jacks the humidty up and the extra moisture seems to make the solutions opaque more prone to lifting off the carrier.
> 
> After scubasteve made his suggestion about cutting then weeding, that worked much better than the normal process but for all of our complex and fine weeding we mask first and weed off the mask. The only problem now is making sure we manage to get a good flat application of the mask because the air bubbles create little pressing imperfections when you go to finish your garment.


Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of opening doors/window because my printing area is an inclosed room with centralized A/C. I do understand what you are saying though. I think that it is more so the type of font I was using, coupled with the thin opaque material makes for a bad combo. I tried printing the same font/design with the vivid print, and everything turned out fine because of the thicker material... from the printing and cutting, to the weeding and masking. It's just that all of that is meaningless to the customer when all they're looking for is a softer print, and could care less about how much trouble you went through to do the job.

I found some other posts regarding other materials similar to the sol. opaque, and it seems to be a common problem (in regards to the "raisin" effect after washing). Shrinking tees seem to be the culprit, but there seems to only be two options, pre-wash/shrink your cottons (because pre-shrunk shirts still can shrink a little), or switch to a 50/50 cotton-poly blend. I'm gonna test out the 2nd method, cause I'll be damned if I'm gonna wash 100+ shirts, and the shirt still has a possibility of shrinking on the next wash!


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## kpk703 (Mar 17, 2008)

oroboy said:


> Thanks for the reply Steve. I was hoping you would be one of the members to reply, seeing from other threads that you really seem to have a grasp of the Roland as well as the materials from IW. Your explanations were wonderful, and I'll give them a try at the shop either today or tomorrow, and report back on it.
> 
> I was wondering if I might bother you for some other info Steve (or anyone else who may have the answer/solutions), when printing, the VP-540 usually advances the material anywhere from 4-6 inches before starting the print, even though I back the material up all the way so that the edge is right on the vacuum holes. Does this have something to do with the base point? I want to be able to start a print right after the edge, with maybe only an inch of waste instead of 6" of waste.
> 
> ...


I back my material up as far as the machine will let me and then reset my base point. I lose at most an inch and a half of material on my VP-540. Hope this helps.


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks Ken, I'll give that a try.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

What type of masking material should be used with the printable transfer paper? I've tried standard medium tack masking tape- not the right stuff.... tried clear choice- disaster.
What's the name of the clear, heat resistant, easy release application tape? I'm using the Roland opaque transfer paper.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

try the TTD mask from Imprintables. I got tired of wasting other stuff and finally just use the TTD for everything heat transfer related.


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> try the TTD mask from Imprintables. I got tired of wasting other stuff and finally just use the TTD for everything heat transfer related.


Ditto.

I got some TTD mask with my versacamm when it ran out i purchased some solutions opaque from stahls and they added a solutions mask with the order.

It turned out to be very flismy and hard to work with. I will not buy that again.

Definitely go for the TTD mask. I was able to use it more than once.


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## oroboy (Aug 16, 2008)

printchic said:


> Ditto.
> Definitely go for the TTD mask. I was able to use it more than once.


Wow... more than once? I never thought about that! I always thought that it was a one time use, then throw away type of mask. It sure would help out if you're pressing the same design onto a lot of shirts, but how much uses (approximate) can you get out of one sheet?


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Actually I've been able to make standard med tack mask to work. It ain't great, but it'll work.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

I am 50/50 on reusing the TTD mask. Most of the time it curls after the pressing and it is just easier to use fresh mask.


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

oroboy said:


> Wow... more than once? I never thought about that! I always thought that it was a one time use, then throw away type of mask. It sure would help out if you're pressing the same design onto a lot of shirts, but how much uses (approximate) can you get out of one sheet?


I've done it 2 sometimes 3 times. I find that the TTD mask from imprintables warehouse was more firmer than the Solutions Opaque Mask that stahls sells.

We stop using it when it gets a lot of lint, etc. on it.


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I am 50/50 on reusing the TTD mask. Most of the time it curls after the pressing and it is just easier to use fresh mask.


We have had good results with reusing (design was 7.50 tall x 8). Granted we were doing the same design in most cases but we even take the backing we peeled it away from and put it back on the mask to protect it so we can re-use it again.

We would not recommend reusing the stahls brand called solutions opaque mask. That stuff is so flimsy you can hardly apply it on the first try let alone trying a 2nd time.


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## Fuzz (May 7, 2007)

Man yall are scarying me a bit. Gonna have to keep doing my research before i take the plunge.

Question... has anyone tried printing transparencies for screen printing using the Versacamm? if so, What material was used and where do you get it?


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

> I did a wash test on one of my shirts which I applied solutions opaque to. I turned the shirt inside out, washed with warm water, mild deter., and hung to dry. The print looked kinda like how your fingers look like when you're in the shower too long... you know, all "pruny-looking" and stuff....
> 
> Like a dried raisin.


I believe this information is somewhere in the roland literature for versacamm.

_When you print on your *solvent* or *eco solvent* printer, the inks do something called “*outgassing*” as they dry and cure on the substrate. _

Further in the info i saw;

_The majority of this outgassing happens_​_in the first hour._

However it recommended waiting 24 hours before laminating so i assume that would mean "masking the item also" so i have started "printing the design one day" and then masking it and pressing it the next day (since i have a certain # of days before delivering shirts.

However, I see in the Stahls application directions for Solutions Opaque to;

_"wait 30 to 60 minutes"_ before pressing the material to a garment. 

I didn't see this same direction on the imprintables.com directions

Anyway for me when i need to do a job fast i at least wait 1 to 2 hours and haven't had any complaints about the raisin effect after washing.

Signed,
Printchic


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

The raisin effect is unique to the opaque solutions material in that it is very thin and more stable than a cotton t-shirt. If the design is large (6"x6" or larger) the shirt will shrink but the transfer will not. Because the material is very thin, it will wrinkle due to the shirt shrink and the vinyl being more stable and not shrinking. In effect, it looks like a raisin! The solution is to use a material that is slightly thicker like quick print that will resist the shrinking effect of the cotton t-shirt and not show any wrinkle effects. You should allow at least an hour for out gassing your prints to ensure that the ink is set into the material properly but this out gassing will not changes the wrinkle.

Hope this helps!


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> The raisin effect is unique to the opaque solutions material in that it is very thin and more stable than a cotton t-shirt. If the design is large (6"x6" or larger) the shirt will shrink but the transfer will not. Because the material is very thin, it will wrinkle due to the shirt shrink and the vinyl being more stable and not shrinking. In effect, it looks like a raisin!


I have to slightly disagree. I've done designs as large as 12 x 11 tall (a solid image no breathable areas) and it didn't have a raisin effect after the shirt was washed.

Each one i didn't press to a day later letting it outgas

May be the type of shirt that makes the differences.

Signed,
Angela H.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

printchic said:


> I have to slightly disagree. I've done designs as large as 12 x 11 tall (a solid image no breathable areas) and it didn't have a raisin effect after the shirt was washed.
> 
> Each one i didn't press to a day later letting it outgas
> 
> ...



The type of shirt will make a difference. If the shirt is not pre shrunk cotton, it will have a more noticeable effect, if it is pre shrunk, it will take a few more washings and have much less of an effect.


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

Someone posted on here awhile back that to save material you can turn off "edge detection" in the sub-menu. I didn't try it yet but it may work.

Lar


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## Sports4Less (Jun 15, 2009)

I put my finger over the optic eye and bring the material back to the edge of the end clips. Then you push the function key and set base point. It has saved me tons of material.


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## awajuknod (Sep 8, 2010)

I know this conversation happened back in 2009 but, has anyone had any luck with avoiding the raisin effect? We just received our Versacamm vp540 and our goal was to print thin (12x12) images on the shirts and now I'm a little worried about what may be the outcome?

Thank You!


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

awajuknod said:


> I know this conversation happened back in 2009 but, has anyone had any luck with avoiding the raisin effect? We just received our Versacamm vp540 and our goal was to print thin (12x12) images on the shirts and now I'm a little worried about what may be the outcome?
> 
> Thank You!


As stated above the type of shirt will make all the difference in the world, the more shrinkage the garment has when washed the worse the effect will be.

Hope this helps.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

I think it is a little misleading for Imprintables warehouse to market Solutions Opaque as usable on any type of material if they know that it wrinkles after washing.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

oroboy said:


> Another thing, I follow the instructions from Imprintables Warehouse when applying the magic mask, but sometimes when I pull the vinyl off of the paper carrier, the vinyl doesn't stick to the mask, even if I squeegee it hard.


I have had better results when I squeegee the print from the back side. Lay the print face down on the magic mask and squeegee from the back on the carrier sheet.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

SickPuppy said:


> I think it is a little misleading for Imprintables warehouse to market Solutions Opaque as usable on any type of material if they know that it wrinkles after washing.


Agreed.......but, in their defense it does perform as advertised the problem is that it doesn't shrink with the substrate which is what causes the problem.

It's one of the reasons we stopped doing printed heat applied garment vinyl with our Versacamm and concentrated more on what the printer was made for, switching to DTG from vinyl for t-shirt printing was for us the best solution to offer the highest quality product we could produce. 

Hope this helps.


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