# Should we accept Bitcoin payments?



## ninjabenja (Mar 25, 2014)

First things first, here's the survey: https://fs25.formsite.com/uscutter/form6/index.html ... it's 6 yes or no style questions... takes 0.26 seconds.

I'm trying to get data for why my company (uscutter) should SERIOUSLY consider accepting Bitcoin payments. This is NOT an advertisement or a promotion, nor is this an agenda being led by anyone other than me as an individual. I made sure the survey is well branded to reinforce the authenticity of the company association. The survey is relevant to the forum because USCutter is part of the apparel design/decor industry.

About me (briefly): I have been involved with both bitcoin and USCutter since about 2010. USCutter has been serving the apparel design/decor industry since it's inception in 2008. I've never posted on this forum until today but have been very active on the USCutter forum. I am an active currency trader, I design my own clothes (and wear them). My favorite BTC charting site is tradingview.com. My favorite heat transfer material is Jotopaper (inkjet light); I enjoy long walks on the beach and playing Cards Against Humanity- totally tanked.

Thanks for your time.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I am not sure small businesses are ready for bitcoin. I know I am not. I don't/won't accept them at the present time


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## ninjabenja (Mar 25, 2014)

I would say that small business more than anyone are better prepared for bitcoin. Granted, my opinion is totally biased, but don't take my word for it...

Why We Accept Bitcoin - Forbes

Also, using a service like coinbase (which we would likely do) you can transact in bitoin while immediately converting the transaction to dollars- on the fly. This means you hold zero BTC, while enabling you to have access to all the customers willing an eager to pay with BTC.


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## circusmidget1123 (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm all for it and my company once it's set up is also going to be accepting crypto currency.


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## Campeon707 (Sep 16, 2011)

Not me. Maybe I don't know enough about it nor care too. I'm fine with current forms of currency cash or credit transactions. I understand the system and what not. I'm young and tech savy but will not use or embrace it.


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## Printavo (Oct 7, 2007)

If you guys have extra time, that could be a pretty cool project, I'd definitely do it and share you experiences! If not, probably not a big deal since it's not a widespread concept yet. I'd guess 99% of your customers don't own bitcoins either


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

I've been accepting bitcoin since 2012. My first shirt sold online for 1.5 bitcoin, ha!

Last year, we did about 9% volume in bitcoin. 2014 is up to 11%.

I love it. Opened up the world to me, and no charge backs.


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## ninjabenja (Mar 25, 2014)

Thats pretty awesome. Beyond just already being involved with BTC, I'm looking at it from the perspective that (for now at-least) people buying with BTC are not taking away from an existing revenue stream. It's not like adding Amazon payments when you already have paypal and credit card methods. If you want to share that bit of insight on your experience, I *just* posted the survey on the USCutter facebook page. You can comment on it and link to your website.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Today or I guess yesterday, IRS issued regulations regarding bitcoins. Taxes will be due on the dollar value at the time of transaction. The paper did not quote the regulation. .... Just a blurb about the news release.


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## circusmidget1123 (Feb 10, 2014)

The IRS was bound to step in sooner or later, everyone knew that but the big question is can they really enforce it? There is no ID behind the wallet addresses and even pools are hidden behind anonymity. Only big business like Tiger Direct and Amazon would be able to comply by making their users comply, but the small business and home users are not going to bother and the IRS can't trace it unless they somehow have the power to stop the internet.


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## Ready2Rock (Jan 30, 2014)

With the IRS treating BC like property now you will be subject to higher taxes when reporting and also if you pay your employees with it they will tax it again as a payroll tax was my understanding of it.

I can not see uncle sam sitting by and not getting their cut. They will step in and implement some way to track this eventually in my opinion. I guess my point is just be careful and have all of your t's dotted and i's crossed


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## Marcdd (Mar 24, 2014)

Hello,

If I where you I diden't eaven would think of accepting Bitcoins payements... Bitcoins have been hacked and a huge amounth of their "Bitcoins" have been stolen not so long away --> Huge Bitcoins drop down.

Don't take the risk to do ur bussines with "monopoly monney"


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## Campeon707 (Sep 16, 2011)

The IRS can't trace it….but the NSA can!


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## DivaB (Feb 21, 2014)

Crazy that you guys are even talking about it. Meaning; my son and his friends talk bitcoin and crypto all of the time; especially in gaming. It's beyond me, but I do find it interesting that it was brought up here too. I honestly don't understand bitcoins or crypto, but I guess I should be more open minded into learning more about it.

Might be a stupid question, but are there businesses that are on the up and up, that actually accept these, that are NOT on the deep web??


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## DivaB (Feb 21, 2014)

.....actually, I think for now, I'll stick with normal currency. Bit coins work for the kids in the gaming community pretty well, and clearly for some others not into gaming; but personally, it doesn't pay my electric bill and house payment. I understand I can turn it around or sell, but I don't feel like messing with all of that right now.


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## circusmidget1123 (Feb 10, 2014)

More than just large online merchants such as Overstock, TigerDirect, etc are accepting bitcoin. There are many directories to look for real world stores that accept bitcoin as well. Remember the guy who bought a lamborghini from the lamborghini dealership in Newport Beach? Or the couple that traveled the world using only bitcoin to pay for everything during their journey? Even DOGE coin has pooled enough DOGE coins to fund the purchase of their own Nascar stock car. I guess I have always played online games where people find real world value in virtual commodity so I see bitcoin as the same thing, I mean come on people have made over 200k USD in selling virtual real estate so as long as people find the value in it then there is real money to be made. Also I doubt companies are holding onto the coins to sell when the value increases, they're likely selling as they are received. Also keep in mind early bitcoin adapters have so many coins to spend that they have nothing else to do but to spend it at bitcoin accepted merchants. I guess crypto currency is just more accepted by the younger generation that is tired of the current system. But the big perk of bitcoin is that the transactions fees are minuscule and there's no such thing as chargebacks so buyers can't scam you.


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## ninjabenja (Mar 25, 2014)

DivaB said:


> Crazy that you guys are even talking about it. Meaning; my son and his friends talk bitcoin and crypto all of the time; especially in gaming. It's beyond me, but I do find it interesting that it was brought up here too. I honestly don't understand bitcoins or crypto, but I guess I should be more open minded into learning more about it.
> 
> Might be a stupid question, but are there businesses that are on the up and up, that actually accept these, that are NOT on the deep web??


More than you can count anymore really. Here are some that are using an exchange service like we would probably do in the beginning: https://coinbase.com/clients If you're not familiar with what bitcoin is exactly the first link on the survey takes you straight to a video on it. 

The "no brainer" here for me is that a small business can open itself to bitcoin transactions with out ever having to hold bitcoin. Transactions are immediately converted to USD and transfered to your bank account.


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## ETA (Mar 14, 2013)

My business is considering accepting Bitcoin and alt cryptocurrencies such as Litecoin and Dogecoin. Honestly, there's not that much to lose from it. If you use an exchange like Coinbase or Moolah, it gets converted to USD instantly. Fees are never fun, but if it brings more business, it can be worth it, and the fees are really minimal. It also seems really good for standing out from competitors.


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## DivaB (Feb 21, 2014)

For those of you who are already accepting bitcoins, what bitcoin client is most used? Not wallet (well, I'd need to know a wallet that doesn't suck so much memory space too ) but, for now, what client is most used?

Just curious. Seems to be 4 really popular ones; Bitoin-QT, MultiBit, Electrum, or Blockchain.

Thanks gang  I honestly don't even know why I came back to this today  except for the simple fact that I was quoted earlier, I'm not sure that I would have been back.

I'm "supposed" to be staying on track with other business learning, and finding a great supplier for sport shirts. Darn it! I have the attention span of a hamster!! lol


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## ninjabenja (Mar 25, 2014)

I have Bitcoin-qt, but I don't use it as a wallet; I just like to support the blockchain processing. For an actual btc wallet, I use coinbase, from which i make paper wallets. I keep just a handfull of btc in my online coinbase account for trading and transacting, the rest are literally locked in a safe on a piece of paper, from which I can transfer more if I want.


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## DivaB (Feb 21, 2014)

KAPOW!!! That was my brain exploding! I completely wasted an entire day on this stuff. 
Oh heck, I could say so much more, but I'm too tired now.


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## circusmidget1123 (Feb 10, 2014)

I don't prefer any of the QT wallets because they're not as organized as like Multibit where all of your addresses are separated into their own accounts since QT combines all of your addresses into one pot and one master key. If I'm not converting the coins into cash then I keep my coins on cold storage offline using Armory and of course always encrypt your key with a password. Always remember to know which wallet has your money unlike Mt Gox who almost deleted a wallet address because they thought the wallet was empty, but nope it has $100m worth of coins on it. Coinbase is a nice option which functions pretty much like paypal where you can send coins via email because no one is going to remember anyone's coin address by heart. You can either hold onto the coin and wait for the price to rise or immediately trade it in for cash. The value of the coin may fluctuate but you will always sell your product for whatever dollar amount you want and the customer will pay you for that dollar amount in coins. It's a win win! Plus, no insane bank fees!


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

I think, one day, sooner or latter the Bit is going to hit the fan...

Cash ain't broke, lets not rush to fix it.


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## ninjabenja (Mar 25, 2014)

PatWibble said:


> I think, one day, sooner or latter the Bit is going to hit the fan...
> 
> Cash ain't broke, lets not rush to fix it.


I think perhaps what often gets lost in translation by those who are super gun-ho about digital currency, is that no one is calling for the repeal of government backed fiat. There is very much the need for a symbiotic relationship especially in the beginning. Much like debit cards changed the face of how everyday people transact for goods (like custom apparel, sign-work) and enabled e-commerce to even be possible; something like bitcoin has the same potential to paradigm shift the way we think about value exchange, and how we do it. We didn't continue trading shells, or gold pieces, or silver notes because we came up with something better... why would we think paper money and credit cards is the best we can do? Does anyone even carry physical cash anymore other than to tip with?

I will be posting results to the survey once I hit 100 replies (55 so far), so everyone can get a good idea of consumer sentiment regarding the topic. It's still a long shot for a company as large as ours to make bitcoin payments a possibility, but at least if they miss the boat, I'll be able to say I told you so.


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

ninjabenja said:


> why would we think paper money and credit cards is the best we can do? Does anyone even carry physical cash anymore other than to tip with?


One of the benefits of working for myself is that I can afford to carry cash...so can my staff as I pay those that want it weekly in cash.

As it stands paper money is the best we can do, it is accepted everywhere, credit cards are accepted in most places.

I'm old school, I remember when paying cash (proforma) used to get you a 10% discount...when I can get that with Bitcoin I'm sold!

Why don't we just start trading 'Beanie Babies'


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## DivaB (Feb 21, 2014)

........should my son and his friend really have a bit over $2000 dollars in bitcoins from hosting game lobbies!?!?!?! **Parents: you should be aware that when your child is excited because they've finally earned a couple of bitcoins....that it equals so much more!!! Now we have to keep track of computer currencies! Can someone who really knows this stuff (between gaming and computer currencies) pm me please? I have some questions.........that is clearly is not t-shirt related.


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## Reni (Apr 28, 2012)

I came across this article today..interesting to say the least.

New IRS rules make using Bitcoins a fiasco
New IRS rules make using Bitcoins a fiasco - Mar. 31, 2014


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## royalAtom (Apr 15, 2014)

Reni said:


> I came across this article today..interesting to say the least.
> 
> New IRS rules make using Bitcoins a fiasco
> New IRS rules make using Bitcoins a fiasco - Mar. 31, 2014


Someone stated this earlier but because the way bitcoin ( and crypto currencies in general ) work this is something that would be near impossible to enforce as it currently stands.


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## circusmidget1123 (Feb 10, 2014)

royalAtom said:


> Someone stated this earlier but because the way bitcoin ( and crypto currencies in general ) work this is something that would be near impossible to enforce as it currently stands.


Much like drug dealers, the IRS code states drug dealers should be reporting their sales as income and pay taxes on it but as if any drug dealers are following the tax law and paying their dues for fear of arrest and paying taxes.


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## royalAtom (Apr 15, 2014)

circusmidget1123 said:


> Much like drug dealers, the IRS code states drug dealers should be reporting their sales as income and pay taxes on it but as if any drug dealers are following the tax law and paying their dues for fear of arrest and paying taxes.


Yup. Also the way the IRS is trying to label bitcoin as "property" is just ridiculous and all that does is make an even bigger headache for people that do actually want to comply... so its back to the drawing board for them.


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## rihanasmith (Apr 29, 2014)

As far as my thinking or the knowledge is concerned I do not think one should ever rely upon such payment ever. Rest depends on any individual's choice.


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## ETA (Mar 14, 2013)

rihanasmith said:


> As far as my thinking or the knowledge is concerned I do not think one should ever rely upon such payment ever. Rest depends on any individual's choice.


I am interested in why you feel that way. Cryptocurrencies, in my opinion, are incredibly similar to any other form of currency. It all only has as much value as people place upon it.

Especially with the rise of the instant exchanges, where the cryptocurrency is automatically converted to a local currency, it seems like there is less risk in accepting cryptocurrencies than any other type of currency.


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## Mia444 (Sep 22, 2017)

As Bitcoin has become more and more popular, I find the idea to accept such payments to be great. But it is necessary to keep your cryptocurrency in safe, so it is important to choose a good wallet. In case you haven't decided which one to use, I can recommend to read a review of the latest and the most popular of them. It helped me a lot, and I hope you will also like it!


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

Accepting Bitcoin is pointless for 99% of small businesses at the moment, and I don't think this will change any time soon.


I made a few sales in bitcoin years ago, when transferring bitcoins to the bank was slow. I kept them and I cashed a few months ago during the big price spike. 


For some specific niches, it could still be a good idea.


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## TieDyeShirts (Jul 5, 2018)

I'll never accept bitcoin. Coz I know that its value is going down.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

TieDyeShirts said:


> I'll never accept bitcoin. Coz I know that its value is going down.


This is not a problem, as you can set it to be instantly converted to any currency you want. The problem is that accepting Bitcoin is like accepting Icelandic krona. The chances of somebody wanting to pay you in that currency are really small.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

fiberoptics said:


> it seems like the next step of payment but what is the set up fee for that service ? Would it be worth having if not many will use it the only people i can see using crypto right now at least would be overseas


This is pointless because most people using Bitcoin also have a Bitpay or Coinbase debit card, and these cards work everywhere visa and mastercard are accepted, including paypal, amazon etsy etc.
Very few crypto-fanatics will insist paying with Bitcoin directly.


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## LancerFlorida (Mar 20, 2018)

Whenever one can keep the banks our of their business, that time for a party.
Unfortuneately, there are times when we need money from a bank. One requirement they always have is 'clean' money. Untraceable funds may present a problem when one needs a bank to lend bigger dollars.


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## Jeremiahnt (Nov 2, 2020)

In the foreseeable future with mass adoption it will go without saying that btс is accepted. At the moment more and more shops all over the world are starting to accept BTC. Tron btw is also getting more and more popular these days. Justin Sun makes his best to overcome ETH.


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## TeedUp (Apr 22, 2020)

I accept gold bullion, delivered up front.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

TeedUp said:


> I accept gold bullion, delivered up front.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

Jokes aside, accepting Bitcoin is as easy as accepting US dollars.
The problem is that not many people have bitcoins, run "ASIC incinerators", or "know how to cut up them layers
of the .onion".
The quotes are lyrics from ytcracker - Bitcoin Baron


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## TeedUp (Apr 22, 2020)

TABOB said:


> Jokes aside, accepting Bitcoin is as easy as accepting US dollars.
> The problem is that not many people have bitcoins, run "ASIC incinerators", or "know how to cut up them layers
> of the .onion".


The benefit I see is avoiding transaction fees, but at what additional administrative efforts?

One big issue I have with the whole bitcoin thing is understanding the virtue of hiding transactions from tax liability.

But the main problem I have is immediately converting those earnings into an essentially speculative financial instrument. I might as well automatically convert ALL my revenue deposits into gold holdings (the gold bullion reference was only HALF joking). Saving a few percent on credit card/paypal transactions fees seems immaterial to me compared to the speculative risks you're assuming by accepting crypto$.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

TeedUp said:


> The benefit I see is avoiding transaction fees, but at what additional administrative efforts?


1. There are transaction fees. Bitcoin miners get paid for their work.
2. Receiving Bitcoin is as easy as receiving PayPal.



TeedUp said:


> One big issue I have with the whole bitcoin thing is understanding the virtue of hiding transactions from tax liability.


Not necessarily.
Bitcoin is traceable, especially when using payment processors (ID verification required).
Even when generating your own wallets... staying anonymous is not that easy. People have been caught... Ross Ulbricht for example.



TeedUp said:


> But the main problem I have is immediately converting those earnings into an essentially speculative financial instrument.


This is optional.
When using a payment processor like Bitpay, Bitcoins you receive can be instantly converted to USD.
Bitcoin is a combination of a public ledger, store of value, and a medium of exchange.
You don't have to use it as store of value if you don't want to.


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## Ritajane (May 12, 2021)

That's true, bitcoin offers various kind of benefits on your business. They also give benefits to their clients. That's why the world start receiving bitcoin as a payment.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

markiedis said:


> I was offered to be paid in bitcoins a decent amount of money around 8 years ago. I didn't know what is that and was very skeptical about the whole thing. Do i need to mention that i regret badly about that decision?


This was indeed a stupid thing to do, but accepting bitcoin and investing in bitcoin are two different things.
Most people accepting bitcoins use it as a medium of exchange. That's converting it to local currency immediately or soon after the transaction.


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## Brent_Mitchell (Aug 20, 2021)

Transaction fees will continue to rise. Customers are adverse to paying a 'loss of cash' fee. I like bitcoin because it avoids this. But- I'd convert it right away to USD, unless you are good with the volatility.


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