# Epson Dura-Brite Inks



## dael27 (Nov 1, 2007)

I purchased a Epson C88+ Printer for my Tee-Shirt printing. I did this based on the vast # of positive reviews for this printer and its DuraBrite Ultra Ink sytem. I do not find that it produces transfers any better than my HP D7360 and it's Vivera Ink system. I use the new Ironall Dark transfer papers and the Jetpro Sofstretch for light transfers. The Epson leaves a pervassive yellow residue on the transfer paper after using a Heat Preess to put the transfer to the Tee. Also, I hear that it is going to be difficult to get the C88 ink cartridges as the printer is discontinued. Any ideas on how to get the most out of my C88 and maybe a compatible catridge with a better ink? I hav e been reading and trying to grasp all the info provided by angeic--endeavor on Feb. 5. David


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

The HP Vivera ink is a pigmented ink so it should perform as well as the Durabrite. I know early on some HP's came with the Vivera black ony and the others were dye. I use Durabrite and adjust the ink settings based on what I have read here. I really like the results using JPSS and Durabrite.

I do see a yellow residue but it has not been a problem. See the attached test print I did when I got started.

As far as getting the ink you should be able to but Epson for a while. As you noted others have found what they think is a better solution. Once I get busier I will move to a CIS or refillable cartridges.


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## dael27 (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks for your quick response. It is curious why no one says anything positive about the Vivera Ink System. I like the color profile better than Dura-brite, the cartridges last longer and Staples gives a $3 rebate and 10% discount (via your Buisineess Rewards Card) on each cartridge when you return your empty one to them. I use a HP D7360 Printer (usually on sale at Costco new for less than $60) and a Epson C88+ I picked up on eBay.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

dael27 said:


> Thanks for your quick response. It is curious why no one says anything positive about the Vivera Ink System. I like the color profile better than Dura-brite, the cartridges last longer and Staples gives a $3 rebate and 10% discount (via your Buisineess Rewards Card) on each cartridge when you return your empty one to them. I use a HP D7360 Printer (usually on sale at Costco new for less than $60) and a Epson C88+ I picked up on eBay.


It has been pretty much an industry standard to use epson because it had pigment ink. Vivera is fairly new and has not been used as or recommend by the indusrty. There have been some positive reviews here on the forum. also a lot of cis system are designed for the epson. I have not seen one for the HP with Vivera ink. And now you know...


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I think the Jetpro might also be helping your results. 

I am testing Jetpro with Canon OEM regular dye ink. It did not fade in the wash. That should have faded. We are coming to believe the Jetpro is a very, very good paper that may have colorfastness with all inks. (May is used strongly here.) I am the first tester that I know of testing this theory. I am doing wash #2 as I write.

With all other papers, dye ink will fade. I've seen folks talking about and using Vivera ink and being happy. But mostly you hear of durabrite b/c Epson is just generally recommended for this process, and with HP printers only having pigment black, you won't get them recommended for this process.

Jetpro may change things a bit. I will believe more when I am on wash #10. A fellow Ivan here is testing Jetpro with Claria ink. That is a dye ink as well, but a water resistant one. A little different from my Canon ink. He is having outstanding results, as I am so far with dye ink.

We'll see how it all pans out with JPSS. I just wanted to mention what we're finding as it may be a bit of an answer to why your seeing great results with your HP. 

I'm wondering, are you guys saying HP makes all of the inks in that printer as a pigment, or still just the black yet? Thx.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Lou, we were typing at the same time, I had this open in a window, I only saw you here when I posted it, or I would have left alot of mine out, a bit of repeat.


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> I'm wondering, are you guys saying HP makes all of the inks in that printer as a pigment, or still just the black yet? Thx.


I believe when HP first introduced the Vivera inkset the black was the only pigment ink. I was interested in the wide format B9180 model (I think that was the model) but backed off because Vivera was new and not all inks were Vivera. Newer models now offer the complte inkset in pigment.

I'll keep watching for Vivera testing going on. HP makes some great printers and has more sales promotions and rebates than Epson.


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## angelic_endeavor (Sep 19, 2007)

Hi, I believe it was my posts you were following  

Yes, I had problems -- bad problems -- with the Durabrite yellow ink. It DOES pervade every print, even if there's no direct yellow in the transfer. And I know exactly what you mean about seeing the yellow on the release paper after peeling... In addition, with composite colors such as gray, it prints gray and then turns green when pressed. It's the yellow that's causing the problem...

Anyway, my solution was refillable carts (from inkjetcarts.us) and heat transfer ink (inksupply.com's MIS Associates Heat Transfer Ink). Together, the cost was $96 ($16 carts and $80 for four 4 oz. bottles), for a savings of over $400 compared to the Durabrite. I have had ABSOLUTELY NO COLOR SHIFTING WHATSOEVER so no color adjustments are necessary, and the black ink is a deep, rich black unlike Durabrite's "faux" black color. In addition, the washability is excellent! I WOULD NEVER GO BACK TO DURABRITE AGAIN!!

I think that we, people in the garment industry, must remember that generic pigment ink such as Durabrite is generally sold for long-lasting photo projects, and NOT for creating t-shirts or withstanding high temps in a press. We use the pigment ink simply for it's fade-and-bleed-resistant qualities -- to solve the problems experienced using dye ink -- but using "generic" pigment ink (such as Durabrite) just creates a DIFFERENT set of problems because the yellow ink just can't "take the heat" and changes color. Heat transfer ink, on the other hand, IS formulated to be pigmented AND can withstand high temps. 

BTW, inkjetcarts.us is now selling a heat transfer ink, supposedly the SAME ink as inksupply.com, and it's only $46 for the set of 4, 4oz. bottles instead of $80. Along with the refillable carts, it brings the total outlay to $62 for a multitude of refills!

Anyway, the details of my journey to refillable carts and heat transfer ink can be found in several threads: "OEM Durabrite ink vs. Inksupply.com Heat transfer ink -- Durabrite, you're fired!", "Black ink turns green!" and you can see photos of a few designs done with the heat transfer ink on page 3 (I think that's the right page) of the "Testing New Transfer Paper" thread.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to post or to PM...

Melissa


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

dael27 said:


> I purchased a Epson C88+ Printer for my Tee-Shirt printing. I did this based on the vast # of positive reviews for this printer and its DuraBrite Ultra Ink sytem. I do not find that it produces transfers any better than my HP D7360 and it's Vivera Ink system. I use the new Ironall Dark transfer papers and the Jetpro Sofstretch for light transfers. The Epson leaves a pervassive yellow residue on the transfer paper after using a Heat Preess to put the transfer to the Tee. Also, I hear that it is going to be difficult to get the C88 ink cartridges as the printer is discontinued. Any ideas on how to get the most out of my C88 and maybe a compatible catridge with a better ink? I hav e been reading and trying to grasp all the info provided by angeic--endeavor on Feb. 5. David


If you go to the same place Melissa did to get her inks and refill carts, or if you go with a CIS/bulk system, you will have an ongoing ink supply for your c88, though I've not heard a word about ink for c88 being hard to get in the future. Where did you find that out?

I don't have color shifting with my Durabrite, so no issue there for me, only cost. I do have yellow left on my release paper, but it doesn't affect my image as in the printer settings, I pull the yellow setting way back to around -15. It cleans the yellow out of the image for me. 

Maybe if you decide to only do light shirts, you might continue to do a wash test on your shirts to see if there is no fading - when you use the Jetpro and HP printer, then you can sell your c88, haha.

But if you want to use Ironall dark, you'll need a pigment ink.

I have a c88 same as you and I have no worries, I pull the yellow back and wasn't aware of a future ink supply shortage. That would not be nice of Epson to flood the market with these printers and not support them with ink. Silly as well, since they make the money on ink. An ink set costs about as much as the printer. I doubt this will happen. I think there is nothing to worry about, just pull the yellow back for now, and if you want to save on ink costs, go to re-fill carts or CIS. 

Melissa's got first hand experience with the re-fill carts, I think you can't beat the price, it's less than a set of Epson ink. Tho, note, if you use the lower priced ink above, Melissa will tell you, she hasn't personally used it, she found the lower price right after she bought the higher priced (wouldn't you know) so you'd have to tell us if there's an issue. I'm sure at that price, if I was to order it the first time, I would also order it from Melissa's lower priced supplier that she mentions. I have nothing to lose and all to gain. I'm just glad Melissa went before me and was able to supply the above info, great and easy to find.


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## dael27 (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks to all for these informative posts!!!!!!


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## nel5000 (Feb 28, 2008)

hows everyone doing first id like to say how informative this forum is.
now to my question i recently purchased an epson r1800 because it deals with pigment ink im just starting out (a newbie) and i wanted to know what inks and paper to use to get the bet quality i know i have to use opaque paper for darks and from what i read alot of people just are not happy with any opaque paper and i also read that the chromoblast has a nice quality but often clogs when not used consistantly and im not sure ill be using my printer everyday so can anybody offer any good advice to a newbie thanx guys and girls i appreciate any help


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## nel5000 (Feb 28, 2008)

oh ive also seen some interesting pigment inks from coastal any info there thanx i probably went at this wrong by posting this in this thread but like i said im a newbie


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

nel5000 said:


> oh ive also seen some interesting pigment inks from coastal any info there thanx i probably went at this wrong by posting this in this thread but like i said im a newbie


when Caostal Introduced thier Everlast Inks I was one of the first to use them. I have been a user now for 2 years. I love the ink.


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## dael27 (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi,

Has anyone out there tried EchoStore.com for continuous ink supply systems. The prices seen too good to be true.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

stay away from them I did buy and it is junk


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## Leatherneck (Jan 18, 2008)

mrdavid said:


> stay away from them I did buy and it is junk


_for what it's worth, i've heard something similar but have not purchased from the myself. _


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## nel5000 (Feb 28, 2008)

has anybody heard of efillink bumped into them surfing the web looking at diffrent ink quotes


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## rodrigo (Sep 9, 2006)

try InkRepublic.com or InkSupply.com
they both have great CIS system.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

Leroy is right go with them


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I it sounds to good , it most likely is. ..... JB


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## moffett8 (Jun 26, 2008)

Quick question, what happens when you refill and epson ink jet cartridge that is not completely empty. Does the chip in the cartridge still think it still has the same amount of ink it had to start with? Does anyone know of a software reset for the chip on the cartridges. I have an Epson C88 and have found one and downloaded it and it didn't work. I just got an epson printer and the black is out I refilled it but still shows empty ;-(


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

moffett8 said:


> Quick question, what happens when you refill and epson ink jet cartridge that is not completely empty. Does the chip in the cartridge still think it still has the same amount of ink it had to start with? Does anyone know of a software reset for the chip on the cartridges. I have an Epson C88 and have found one and downloaded it and it didn't work. I just got an epson printer and the black is out I refilled it but still shows empty ;-(


Are these refillable cartridges? Or are they epson? Refillables either need a chip re-setteer.. Or you need to turn your printer off and then on again.


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## moffett8 (Jun 26, 2008)

There Epson cartridges.



moffett8 said:


> Quick question, what happens when you refill and epson ink jet cartridge that is not completely empty. Does the chip in the cartridge still think it still has the same amount of ink it had to start with? Does anyone know of a software reset for the chip on the cartridges. I have an Epson C88 and have found one and downloaded it and it didn't work. I just got an epson printer and the black is out I refilled it but still shows empty ;-(


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

moffett8 said:


> There Epson cartridges.


I have tried to fill original cartrdges in the past and had no luck. You need to buy refillable cartridges.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Girlzndollz said:


> I'm wondering, are you guys saying HP makes all of the inks in that printer as a pigment, or still just the black yet? Thx.


Okay, I was able to get the answer to my own question this week. Thankfully HP has put out some better literature on their inks.

Quick re-cap: The Vivera inks are both Dye based and Pigment based. The only pigment color carts at this time are carts# HP 38, that whole set is Vivera Pigment. I didn't see any other Vivera color carts listed as pigment, the rest were listed as Dye Based. For carts HP 02, the Black Vivera is listed as dye based... well, that was a surprise for sure.

Here's a link to a look up tool for anyone in the future who reads this thread and wants to look up their ink since it's so widely discussed in this thread: 
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/printers-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers/t64394.html#post381820


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