# Do it yourself sublimation coating



## Ernie

Saw this on a website. Sounded too good to be true. Anyone ever tried it?

Ernie


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## BigBear

Ernie said:


> Saw this on a website. Sounded too good to be true. Anyone ever tried it?
> 
> Ernie


Greetings Ernie,

There are several companies selling a polymer coating in a spray can. Results will be mixed, depending upon your needs and expectations.

The most common needs are to coat something that is not offered with a coating and/or to create a higher polymer content to try and make a 50/50 shirt sublimate decently.

From a commercial viewpoint, neither use is particulary effective.

On a hard substrate it is very difficult to get the coating even and then, because of the relatively long curing/drying time, it is even more difficult to keep the surface dust free.

On 50/50 fabrics, it is slightly more effective (depending upon your and the customer's expectations). Sublimating the treated fabric will certainly look better than an untreated 50/50 fabric (which looks dull and washed-out). In my professional opinion, it still won't look very good.

My thoughts are tempered by the fact the results may be sufficient for your needs.

One can is not that expensive and you may want to try it to experience your own results. One last thought: Follow the directions closely. This is not a spray and sub process.


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## charles95405

to paraphrase and old saying....I saw, I tried, it failed... I do not think it is worth the effort. I have been in sublimation for a long time and have yet to find a spray on, press on for cotton that I would use.... period


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## Ernie

Thanks Jack and Charles!

I figured if it were a sure thing it would have been mentioned on the forum somewhere.

Ernie


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## jwcollect

anyone ever use this stuff?

Sublimation coating, sublimation polymer coating, coating sublimation


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## MR RISE

jwcollect said:


> anyone ever use this stuff?
> 
> Sublimation coating, sublimation polymer coating, coating sublimation


Hey there

Im testing it out this week. 

Contact me at ranui(at)rise-worldwide.com - ill let you know how it turns out!


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## loustuff

I have seen what I believe to be what you are refering to, it comes as a liquid that can be applied to hard substrates and a spray for fabrics. I have not tried them as the liquid was very expensive. I have experimented with spray poly urethane and got a reasonable image on wood. I am also looking at a company called Hilord that makes a coating and I found some info about a two part coating that cures on its own and does not reguire any curing equipment or oven. Also look into polyester coating resins.


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## CUSTOM UK

I have tried out some of these coatings myself. Even working in a relatively dust free environment, taking extreme care with how you apply the coating and taking all reasonable precautions, you can still end up with the odd pinhole blemish or coated dust speck on the substrate. If you were using the process for something like a large mural it probably wouldn't matter, but for smaller items such as medallions, or jewellery, the imperfections become more significant.


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## ldwade

If anyone is still interested Digi-Coat is a great product. I use it often and do not have many imperfections. Besides a imperfection hear and there add character. You have to bake it after the coating, but it works great. I also like the translucent white for glass. I coated many glass tiles for a custom bathroom and they looked great.


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## lben

I tried the spray for cotton. The image originally looked great, until I washed it. The image washed out probably 90%. It has been washed several times since then and the image is just barely noticeable, you really have to look for it. Was it worth it? Nope.


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## ldwade

If you want a t-shirt I recommend vapor apparel as it looks like a cotton t-shirt and the sublimation looks great. The spray poly items are basically for solid items like metal, wood, tile, rocks etc.


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## Shape IT Plastix

Guys is there a clear coating you can put on to mirrors so you can sublimate to it.


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## GordonM

Shape IT Plastix said:


> Guys is there a clear coating you can put on to mirrors so you can sublimate to it.


Assuming the finished mirror is for decorative, rather than practical, purposes you may want to use a hard surfaces transfer paper instead of sublimation. You need a laser printer for these, though.

The problem with sublimation is that the dyes are transparent, so the image isn't very bright when on non frosty glass. The hard surface transfer papers are a thicker material and many have a "milky" background, so you can use on transparent medium.


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## mgparrish

GordonM said:


> Assuming the finished mirror is for decorative, rather than practical, purposes you may want to use a hard surfaces transfer paper instead of sublimation. You need a laser printer for these, though.
> 
> The problem with sublimation is that the dyes are transparent, so the image isn't very bright when on non frosty glass. The hard surface transfer papers are a thicker material and many have a "milky" background, so you can use on transparent medium.


I have tried this with OKI OEM toner and HG paper, it works but still too transparent to be of much use, even with heavy toner coverage. Might be a good application for a OKI with white toner to allow opacity.


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## GordonM

I use the non-self weeding type, and get good opacity for glass, especially for mirrors, where the light must pass through twice. Darker full tones are the best, but lighter tones also show up reasonably well for something that doesn't have a white printed base. I did a run of glass Christmas ornaments this way. The ones I sublimated (and had a frosty background) were not as brilliant. The ones with the hard surface paper were more colorful.

For clear glass where the image is seen through the front to the back and is not meant to be transmissive, I use the Crystal type, which has a white backing. As needed, this I weed cut with a plotter, and hot mask transfer it.


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## ldwade

There are a couple sprays on the market that work fairly well. I use Digicoat and it works great. The pretreatment for glass is a little difficult to master, but overall the system works great. I have done several mirrors and glass tiles. They have a white coat too for coating from back of glass. It looks gret to scrape off some of the mirror coating and coat it from the back. Many options!


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## skdave

Lonnie, I'm from Missouri SHOW ME post pictures please.


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## ldwade

Unfortunatly I do not have any pictures. I have delivered all the prints using that product. If I can get to it shortly I will try to print a mirror any post something. I usually do not take photos of this work as it is for groups that are touchy about their logos!


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## Riderz Ready

ldwade said:


> Unfortunatly I do not have any pictures. I have delivered all the prints using that product. If I can get to it shortly I will try to print a mirror any post something. I usually do not take photos of this work as it is for groups that are touchy about their logos!


 
I am with Dave as I have yet to see a example of a professionally printed product with self applied coating. Not saying it has never been done but when it comes to seeing an actual product - - - never seen one.


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## GordonM

I self-coat only small jewelry pieces, or items that are rough-hewn which hide imperfections. Sandstone and Mexican tile are ideal for this.

I don't use Digi-Coat, though I'm sure it's a fine product. I use 2-part polyester resin applied through a low pressure high volume sprayer. It is the same (type of) mixture used by Unisub and others. I also use a sable paint brush on some items.

If you're doing quantity or larger panels it helps to get to know the local auto painters. They have the paint booth, quartz heaters, and the proper equipment to do it right. I found one that will do my blanks for about $150 per set, and it takes them about a half hour. I bring everything already to go. They have the resin there, as it's automotive underbase clear coat. Digi-Coat is very expensive for the coverage you get. Less than $20 in resin will cover many, many square feet.


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## skdave

GordonM said:


> I self-coat only small jewelry pieces, or items that are rough-hewn which hide imperfections. Sandstone and Mexican tile are ideal for this.
> 
> I don't use Digi-Coat, though I'm sure it's a fine product. I use 2-part polyester resin applied through a low pressure high volume sprayer. It is the same (type of) mixture used by Unisub and others. I also use a sable paint brush on some items.
> 
> If you're doing quantity or larger panels it helps to get to know the local auto painters. They have the paint booth, quartz heaters, and the proper equipment to do it right. I found one that will do my blanks for about $150 per set, and it takes them about a half hour. I bring everything already to go. They have the resin there, as it's automotive underbase clear coat. Digi-Coat is very expensive for the coverage you get. Less than $20 in resin will cover many, many square feet.


 
Gordon,
How many sq ft of Metal do you get sprayed for $150 & $20.?


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## GordonM

I don't do big panels because I can't buy enough aluminum sheet or FRP at big discounts to make the cost meaningful. Both require lots of prep; the aluminum must be prewashed with a nasty solvent that makes me very sick. On the FRP it has to be sanded down, painted with white, then coated (or coated with white polymer). I don't like working with fiberglass dust.

I take 12 x 18 signs from Sign Warehouse, which can be cleaned just with alcohol, and I can do maybe 50 of those at a time, plus a bunch of nick-knacks like shell jewelry, which is a specialty. The signage I then use for making my own shape blanks, cutting with waterjet. Or for one-offs, I use my CNC machine. I bring the loose pieces already mounted to hardboard so they just lean it against the wall and spray it.

The $20 buys up to quart. It's from their stock, and I know it's probably less than a quart used, but that's is fine by me. They use an injection system so the catalyst is not premixed, and therefore no waste. The $150 is for their time, and they can usually get everything done in about 20-30 minutes. It bakes for another 30 minutes or so, then cools. So it uses up about 1.5 hours of their paint booth time, which is valuable. We arrange on down times when they don't otherwise have any car customers. I'm sure the price is a favor, and I try to reciprocate with the odd vinyl or sub job for them.

Occasionally there's a bubble or other blemish, but I just cut around those (if they spot them during spraying they have techniques to eliminate them). There's never any dust, as there is when I spray at home!


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## Riderz Ready

I will go back to Dave's original request for pics. Heard of many people doing self coating but yet to ever see a single picture never the less one that is comparable to Unisub. Unisubs aluminum, etc is really inexpensive in bulk sheets - not sure why one would want to go through the hassle of reinventing the wheel.


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## freebird1963

Octi tech has videos up on youtube. They make the Digi Coatings.
Paul now has out leather than can be sublimated.


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## GordonM

Riderz Ready said:


> Unisubs aluminum, etc is really inexpensive in bulk sheets


I somehow doubt you've actually priced this out. While you can get their 4x8 sheets, it costs a small fortune to ship it, unless you can find a seller that will cut it down, and then you pay for a cutting charge. The 4x8 sheets much be trucked, or else pay extra for the standard rate carriers. For trucking there's the transportation charges, lift gate charges if you don't have a loading dock, etc. I'd ideally like to find a local seller with will-call, but there are none in my area.

So no, it's not cheaper unless you literally buy a ton of it at a time, and even then it's not *that* much cheaper. While I wouldn't self-coat aluminum, I do with others that don't require large blemish-free areas. The rest I take in to a professional paint and body shop who specialize in $2,000 automotive paint jobs. As for doubting it, why? This isn't rocket science.


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## Riderz Ready

You can doubt all you want but we have been doing this a long time and the number one cost I have is time. If you have time to run around having stuff done that is great. Shipping is a minor cost compared to time. You take bulk fabric or bulk material and apply the shipping cost to an individual unit one sells and the cost is little.

Furthermore there are numerous resources out there that offer custom cut shapes from bulk Unisub material. Very reasonable in cost. Trucking cost are a fraction of what UPS and the likes cost. 

Why doubt it? I like Dave have been on this forum for years and heard many claims of such things as printing on cotton shirts and self applied coatings yet to this day not a single example of a professional job has been posted that I am aware. Again not saying it has not been done just that people talk about it but never seem to show off their work.

Like Dave said - just show us.


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## GordonM

You have experience in what? From what I understand you've never been in this aspect of the dye sub market. It is, however, something I do everyday.

I can get 12x18 alum blanks locally for under $3, which happen to be the right size for my CNC. No need for a large metal brake, which alone saves me money. Add the cost of having it coated I'm still 25% better price-wise than Unisub, and that's without trucking 4x8 foot sheets. I'd have to buy at least 10 sheets of Unisub (their minimum), investing about $1,700 in material alone. I can spend less on inventory, AND save with lower cost product. What's there to not understand about this? 

I can also get aluminum blanks with prismatic coatings already in them. I have a broader choice of thicknesses, including up to 0.090", which I use for panels on 19" equipment racks. Unisub doesn't offer that thickness in aluminum. Now I can offer products no one else does. What's there to not understand about this?

In other words, why would you not consider alternatives that broaden your product reach and market? Why assume the way you're doing it now is the only way it can be possibly be done?

As Mark sez above, Digi-Coat (which I don't use) has posted numerous YouTube videos. If you haven't seen any examples of self coating you haven't looked. If you don't believe those, why would you believe any other examples? What would be the point in posting them. Seems like an exercise in futility.


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## Riderz Ready

GordonM said:


> You have experience in what? From what I understand you've never been in this aspect of the dye sub market. It is, however, something I do everyday.
> 
> I can get 12x18 alum blanks locally for under $3, which happen to be the right size for my CNC. No need for a large metal brake, which alone saves me money. Add the cost of having it coated I'm still 25% better price-wise than Unisub, and that's without trucking 4x8 foot sheets. I'd have to buy at least 10 sheets of Unisub (their minimum), investing about $1,700 in material alone. I can spend less on inventory, AND save with lower cost product. What's there to not understand about this?
> 
> I can also get aluminum blanks with prismatic coatings already in them. I have a broader choice of thicknesses, including up to 0.090", which I use for panels on 19" equipment racks. Unisub doesn't offer that thickness in aluminum. Now I can offer products no one else does. What's there to not understand about this?
> 
> In other words, why would you not consider alternatives that broaden your product reach and market? Why assume the way you're doing it now is the only way it can be possibly be done?
> 
> As Mark sez above, Digi-Coat (which I don't use) has posted numerous YouTube videos. If you haven't seen any examples of self coating you haven't looked. If you don't believe those, why would you believe any other examples? What would be the point in posting them. Seems like an exercise in futility.


Clearly you understand little what we do. Not sure of your point but we have used several different bulk Unisub products and had cut to shape. Has zero to do with the simple request Dave made early asking for pictures of the success using self applied coating.

Of course Digi Coat has SALES videos just like the people that offer magic cotton spray have videos. Does it work in the real world? No clue as I have stated multiple times which people always avoid - just post samples.

Not sure why all these people who claim to use cotton sprays and self coat shy so strongly away from promoting their companies and sharing their products but every single one of them do.


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## Riderz Ready

freebird1963 said:


> Octi tech has videos up on youtube. They make the Digi Coatings.
> Paul now has out leather than can be sublimated.


Ever see it work in the real world? Never seen one post in all the years demonstrating successful self coat products. 

We tried the leatherette wallets - they print pretty good but the wallet has a snap shut like a ladies purse. Maybe it is a European thing but we have had zero luck with our customer base - -


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## GordonM

Riderz Ready said:


> Clearly you understand little what we do. Not sure of your point but we have used several different bulk Unisub products and had cut to shape.


I don't doubt you've had occasion to use Unisub bulk product, as many of us have. But unless you've fully researched the options your experience is limited. All I'm saying is that your blanket statement they are always cheaper or better is not founded on fact. This also ignores their limited selection, making it critical to find alternatives when you're doing more than making trinkets for consumers.

If I want even cheaper there are subbed aluminum blanks for half of what Unisub charges. But there are pros and cons to it all. You use what's right for the job.

I realize you and Dave are calling for some "proof," though A) polyester resin coatings are what everyone uses and there's no "secret sauce" to it, and B) saying their sales demonstrations are of little value is the same as someone suggesting your product examples are also suspect, because you likewise have a sales motive. Otherwise you wouldn't have your link in your signature.

You need to understand that those who aren't trying to gain exposure for their services have little incentive to share if they believe they have a unique product offering. Even the surfers, who have glassed their boards and dye subbed for years, aren't always willing to give away their secrets. (And no, the surfers don't use anything from Unisub.)


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## maryellen1234

The post is about DYI coatings, please stick to the subject and stop nit-picking or dissecting other posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and opposing view point. let it go
Maybe take your petty arguments to another forum


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## Rodney

maryellen1234 said:


> The post is about DYI coatings, please stick to the subject and stop nit-picking or dissecting other posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and opposing view point. let it go
> Maybe take your petty arguments to another forum


Agreed. Off topic posts have been removed from this thread. Please do not start it up (or bait people into arguments) again 

If you have problems with a poster making posts that seem out of line, please click the Report Bad Post button instead of trying to argue it out with them. Let us take care of it so the threads can stay on topic and helpful, please


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## SUGARCREEK

tried the dyepress polygloss, applied it with spong brushs on some dishs bought for 50 cents apiece, a two step process, did not take long, did 14 dishes with very little product. problems, were my fault, it said if you see bubbles when applying the product, spray water on it with the spray bottle they supplied, i sprayed too much. when i put it in the oven we use for food, had the rack too low, burnt the poly on some of the dishes, the others because of the water had bumps and scars, and then got hollered at by my women because of the smell of the poly baking, most of the problem were my fault, will continue tomorrow, so far i am impressed with the material, will keep everyone informed


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## jemmyell

Hi,

Why are you impressed when you have had nothing but problems? DO NOT use your kitchen oven, you are going to poison yourself and your family.

I tried the DyePress shirt products, they are junk.

-James


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## SUGARCREEK

follow up on yesterdays post, using the the products that i poly coated, as i have always bought pre-coated items, wanted to see what they looked like, even though there were some bumps, imperfections,discoloration, which was all due to my application, i sublimated some of these plates today, looked real good, was impressed. Going to poly some basswood tomorrow, see what happens. I do not think this would be good for any type of quanity, but opens the door for out of the norm products, not just the regular items Will let everyone know how it turns out Skip


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## Shape IT Plastix

SUGARCREEK said:


> follow up on yesterdays post, using the the products that i poly coated, as i have always bought pre-coated items, wanted to see what they looked like, even though there were some bumps, imperfections,discoloration, which was all due to my application, i sublimated some of these plates today, looked real good, was impressed. Going to poly some basswood tomorrow, see what happens. I do not think this would be good for any type of quanity, but opens the door for out of the norm products, not just the regular items Will let everyone know how it turns out Skip


Thanks for sharing with us if you could put up some pics, prices and were you got the coating that would be great.

Thanks
Ian
Shape IT pastix


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## freebird1963

Octi tech has a spray on sublimation product called Digi Coat.
No rolling.


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## Shape IT Plastix

freebird1963 said:


> Octi tech has a spray on sublimation product called Digi Coat.
> No rolling.


Do you know if it would be any good for glass or mirrors.


Thanks
Ian 
Shape IT Plastix


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## Shape IT Plastix

ldwade said:


> There are a couple sprays on the market that work fairly well. I use Digicoat and it works great. The pretreatment for glass is a little difficult to master, but overall the system works great. I have done several mirrors and glass tiles. They have a white coat too for coating from back of glass. It looks gret to scrape off some of the mirror coating and coat it from the back. Many options!


What the best way to scrape off the back of the mirror.

Thanks

Ian
Shape IT Plastix


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## freebird1963

Shape IT Plastix said:


> Do you know if it would be any good for glass or mirrors.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Ian
> Shape IT Plastix


A bunch of videos of it on youtube,doing mirrors,wood and glass.


digi coat - YouTube


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## Shape IT Plastix

freebird1963 said:


> A bunch of videos of it on youtube,doing mirrors,wood and glass.
> 
> 
> digi coat - YouTube


 
Thanks dude i will have a look


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## freebird1963

Also the owner of Octi Tech Paul which makes the Digi coat can be found on the dyesub.org forum. There are a couple discussions over there about it too and he will answer any questions you got.


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## Shape IT Plastix

Again thanks man 


Ian


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## SUGARCREEK

SEMPER FI 71
i realize there are spray cans of poly, big difference in price, i used dyepress poly gloss, 64 0z bottle, came with a syring for adding hardener, small spray bottle for water, cups for measuring, etc This is a water based product, and can be sprayed, which i most likly will try. Not trying to push this product, just the one i picked. The email i got for info was [email protected]. The member who asked if everything went wrong why am i still using this. This was my first attempt with this, stated the problems were my fault, plus i do not quit. This allows me to sublimate a variety of differnt products, at any time i want. I do not like the norm, try differnt things, as i said doing bass wood tomorrow SEE yA


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## GordonM

I use something very similar to what Rachel sells, which is basically marine resin. It's all in the application, and 2-part polyester resin is what all sublimation coaters use. If you have a very good sprayer it'll go on fairly smoothly. I avoid coating high-luster items, like glazed tile, because they're cheap enough already and easy to find. I reserve self-coating for things that are hard to find. Most of mine are under 1" in size. Other items I take to a body shop that does custom vehicle airbrush painting, and I have them spray in their paint booth.

I agree that you should not have used your food oven for curing the items. The catalyst alone contains methyl ethyl ketone, which is quite poisonous. Drying and curing removes it, but the compound is still there until the surface is cured. I suggest you run the oven through a cleaning cycle before you cook any food in it. Turn the vent hood on to prevent the fumes from building up inside the kitchen.

Application to wood certainly works, but I'd advise you cure under your heat press, and not in an oven, unless you want to burn the wood. Be sure to cure adequately or the transfer paper may stick (it may stick even if you cure).


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## uncletee

10800 views, yea ha.


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## selanac

I purchased some, but I haven't tried it yet.


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## onerb

GordonM said:


> I use something very similar to what Rachel sells, which is basically marine resin. It's all in the application, and 2-part polyester resin is what all sublimation coaters use.


Hi Gordon,

We use the gigicoat spray to prepare enamel mugs for printing. This works out very expensive as the price for the Digicoat spray is about USD 35 in South Africa. My mug cost USD0.45 and the spray works out to USD1.10 which really does not make financial sense.

Could you kindly advise exactly what resin/products I will need to mix to spray with a compressor applied in a booth. My friend is a spraypainter and will be able to assist if I can get the right ingredients/chemicals to use.

Below is pictures for the person who asked what the DIY coated items turn out.


photo uploader


photo uploader


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## freebird1963

How much do you think you could buy precoated mugs for ?
Your cost of .45 +1.10 is about on for a precoated mug. Little higher for some, lower than others here in the US.

Maybe you should contact Paul Hirst directly and see about volume purchasing to lower your cost on the Digicoat.

Your mugs looked good by the way too.


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## onerb

freebird1963 said:


> How much do you think you could buy precoated mugs for ?
> Your cost of .45 +1.10 is about on for a precoated mug. Little higher for some, lower than others here in the US.
> 
> Maybe you should contact Paul Hirst directly and see about volume purchasing to lower your cost on the Digicoat.
> 
> Your mugs looked good by the way too.


Thanks for your reply.

I live in South Africa and I am not aware of anyone selling pre-coated enamel mugs. For the pre-coated ceramic mugs we pay around USD 1.20. This without the hassle of having to spray it and cure it which takes a lot of time.

I do sell ceramic mugs too but seeing that the enamel mugs are a niche market I would like to pursue it.

The price for digicoat is very expensive and I only get about 30-35 tin mugs out of a bottle.


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## GordonM

The material is two-part marine or automotive polyester undercoat. A good sprayer is most anything professional that can deliver high volume at low pressure. You must cure in heat, so your booth needs infrared lamps.


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## onerb

GordonM said:


> The material is two-part marine or automotive polyester undercoat. A good sprayer is most anything professional that can deliver high volume at low pressure. You must cure in heat, so your booth needs infrared lamps.


Can the items be cured in an oven as well? I might just set my empty storage garage up as a booth with an lp compressor.

Do I need to add anything particular to the undercoat like hardener or catalyst? Also, I saw some people using the polyester resin by applying with a sponge and water. Is this possible in your experiences with the products?

Thanks for your advice. I might end up saving a bit should this work.


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## GordonM

You could cure in an oven, though I am told by my auto body friends that radiant heat is the best.

I've dipped and brushed on the coating, and found it works for rough materials like porous tile, but I don't think it gives good enough results for smooth and polished surfaces like mugs.

Two-part poly coatings require a catalyst/hardener. It's also the science to making it work right. Too little or too much and the coating will be too soft, too brittle, too hard (won't sub well), or too sticky (paper will not come off). There are also curing accelerators and other chemicals well known to those who do surfboards and casting with the same type of materials.

I don't know your situation, but I just take mine to a local auto body repair shop and they spend 30 minutes coating stuff for me. Their system automatically mixes resin and catalyst, and they have it there already. The only self-coating I do is very small things like shell jewelry, or the above-mentioned tiles. (I've also done wood, but you have to be careful about curing it -- burning and warping are problems. It's a real hassle.)


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## selanac

Gordon, seems like the local auto repair shop would be expensive. Something like, $55 per hour or more.


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## GordonM

They can get a lot done in an hour!

Mugs need some sort of turntable, I think, and probably some other automation. I don't think it would be as effective to do mugs.

Self spray (auto body shop, your own booth) really pays off when you start doing sheets of material and the larger sandstone tiles, which can cost a small fortune if you buy them already coated. The rough and uneven nature of the tiles hides any imperfections, so you get a good yield.


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## onerb

GordonM said:


> They can get a lot done in an hour!
> 
> Mugs need some sort of turntable, I think, and probably some other automation. I don't think it would be as effective to do mugs.
> 
> Self spray (auto body shop, your own booth) really pays off when you start doing sheets of material and the larger sandstone tiles, which can cost a small fortune if you buy them already coated. The rough and uneven nature of the tiles hides any imperfections, so you get a good yield.


I took your advice and did a lot of research. My panel friend told me that the curing will be a problem with the Undercoat(2k) as the heat will probably affect it.

These are my first attempts with NS4 primer. It was applied using a brush and i will spray some with the spraygun later today. 

It looks quite faded after pressing in the heat press, the solution is to spray a clear coat afterwards and presto it looks bright again.

You can use a small roller or sponge for better results. This is just a test for me and I will experiment with clear coat in the mixture(just need it to not yellow).


picture sharing


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## selanac

Looks very nice from the picture.


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## faeriephotos

GordonM said:


> The material is two-part marine or automotive polyester undercoat. A good sprayer is most anything professional that can deliver high volume at low pressure. You must cure in heat, so your booth needs infrared lamps.


I've been trying to find out about getting this done on aluminum sheets for sublimation. So far the autobody places here in Vegas don't seem to have any info for a polyester undercoat. Is there a specific name I need to ask about? 

Has anyone attempted to buy aluminum sheet metal and get it coated themselves? It's something I've been researching and have had a hard time finding a lot of information about. Any help is appreciated!


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## GordonM

If you're looking for a clear or satin finish polyester resin you can coat yourself, try Dyepress.com. She sells direct and through eBay. I think her "recipe" is more a marine gelcoat. I don't know what the material is for the white underbase she sells. 

Coating your own aluminum sheets isn't something I'd suggest. You need to get the metal absolutely clean, which usually involves a very strong solvent. Lacking automated spraying equipment getting an even coat by hand would require an expert. The only aluminum I coat are small trinket-size pieces I get from Michael's. They're intended for making your own rings and bracelets, which is what I use them for.


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## bratdawg

faeriephotos said:


> Has anyone attempted to buy aluminum sheet metal and get it coated themselves? It's something I've been researching and have had a hard time finding a lot of information about. Any help is appreciated!


Gordon is right. While the DIY coating can be great for small items and experimenting with new substrates, trying to coat sheets of aluminum can be problematic at best.

If you're looking for the metal coated, you might want to talk to Brian at Rallye Productions who has worked with metal plants for years developing his coated aluminum. He will sell cut to size pieces as well as full 4X8 sheets.

If he doesn't chime in here, feel free to contact me for his information and I'm sure he'll be happy to help if he can. Though I'm sure he's not interested in divulging what he's learned along the way, he's helped quite a few with coated metal 

Steve


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## faeriephotos

Thank you Gordon and Steve for the ideas and advice!


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## faeriephotos

As an update for people, I'm on test #2 with a paint shop for getting the 2nd side coated on a sheet of aluminum (dynasub). test #1 was about 80% successful on a sheet. Great color match to the front, only draw back was there was some flaking on some of the edges. The shop is experimenting with me some more to see if they can solve that problem. When I have a solution I'll post a pic!


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## GordonM

Flaking -- even the Big Boys that coat sheets don't guarantee that the edges will be fully covered. Usually the sheet is trimmed down after coating. When you buy bulk material from places like Unisub they tell you the edges may not be usable.

For aluminum, if you do this a lot a good investment is a sheet metal brake. I'd advise against Harbor Freight stuff and try to find one used off Craigslist. Or if you don't need to cut a lot of sheets, just take the subbed metal into a job shop, and have them cut it for you. It's cheap, maybe too cheap to make their minimums. 

The cut has to be clean and sharp, or what happens is that the edges have a slight curl. If the curl is too great there won't be a good transfer on the very edges. You want it flat-flat-flat.


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## faeriephotos

Thanks for the ideas Gordon! So far I figured out how to cut it and get good results. I'm using 12x24 sheets that I cut myself with an Accucutter. 1 of my next experiments is to try and print an overbleed and then trim it down. I usually do the opposite though. I cut the metal to the client size before pressing.


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## GordonM

Accucutter -- those are nice. 

For sheet stock I cut to shape using a CAD router (my own, so the expense is minimal), then press. My router doesn't have an auto-registration system, so it's easier to cut first, press later.


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## faeriephotos

Gordon, Do you (or anyone else of course) know of an easy way to make a 1" or 2" diameter punch through a sheet of aluminum? I need something bigger than the hole punch that I can buy for the cornermate system. And I love my Accucutter it's awesome! lol I'm curious about your CAD Router and how that works. Very cool!


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## GordonM

You need a really good die puncher to get perfectly flat discs. If the edges are raised because of the die, then you may get a small void around the rim. It can help to turn the piece over and print with the "bevel" on the underside, but that doesn't work well if you're subbing both sides.

So, this means a really sharp set of dies and a 5-15 ton (or thereabouts) punch. Most punch work is made to create holes, not blanks, so the punches have to be specially made not to leave dimples or rough edges. 

CNC routing is an alternative. A good machine costs $3500+, so unless you're planning on doing this a lot, best to find a local jobber that will do the work for you. Depending on their equipment they could use a rotary machine, waterjet, even laser (though I don't know what affect the laser will have on discoloring the coating). Waterjet may be your best bet. You can find these guys in the local Yellow Pages or by doing a local Google or Bing search.

Pricing can be confusing for this kind of work, and it's best to just bring in a sample to show them. Most will provide quotes based on files you provide. Because you're asking for simple circular shapes, they might want to just make the DXF files themselves. A typical shop price is about $200 an hour, though the actual job rate is by the machine minute. That pays for the machine and the operator. You can get a lot of discs cut in an hour, especially with waterjet. If going with waterjet, thin aluminum may be able to be cut without an abrasive in the water. Some shops charge less for that, because it causes less wear on the pump and head.

Some sign makers have a rotary CNC and will do this work for you. Call around. For the benefit of the tooling, they may opt to use 1/4" bits, so plan on this when you lay out your file.


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## skdave

Laser is not a good option. It will throw a nasty burr on Aluminum 
I would do ALL fabrication before coating of any kind. I use to own a huge Metal fab company and a powder coat company. Tiger makes a powder coat that dye subs nicely as well. FYI


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## miknic

HI sorry to drag up an old post but can't find any other .. 
I have a coating I got from ebay and so far has worked wonderful on tiles .. I am wanting to coat MDF question is though would I need to paint it white first before coating it and how would I go about curing it as with the tiles I have baked them in the oven at 200 for 15 mins would I be able to do that with the MDF ?


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## selanac

Milnic, what brand did you buy on eBay. I bought some but haven't used it yet. Wonder if it expires?


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## miknic

It is unbranded from a supplier here in Australia I wanted to get digicoat but they where out and are not restocking it, was then gonna get dyepress but that is $$ to ship here


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## EddieM

If you paint it white it will then not sub right as it will make your image look like it is mixed in with the white making the image look all faded white.

I have been doing a lot of testing on this and so far have not come up with a good white to put on that dose not have this problem.

As for curing it on MDF i have found that it needs no curing at all.
Problem is MDF warps very easy unless you are using 3/4 thick or thicker.

When i did do curing it bows even more being heated two times.


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## Chewy13

I can speak from some level of experience on the DyePress stuff. No I may not have years of sub experience or this and that but I can say I've coated hundreds of sq ft of wood with the natural stuff and have gotten it to work great. I buy the 1/4" birch paneling from Home Depot or Lowes or whatever hardware store, cut it to size, light sand the edges, give it a good brush, sometimes even rinse it with water, spray it with the Dyepress natural stuff and poof....pretty nice picture pressed onto it. 

I made a 32oz bottle last quite a long time...will be going for the gallon on my next purchase. Honestly pretty inexpensive although very time consuming prep. I've gotten it down to roughly $4-5 with the wood, spray, ink, paper, etc.....sell them usually for 30 to 40, up to 60 after I frame them.

Havent done the tshirt stuff. Tried it on some travetine tiles from HD with decent success. Believe it or not I actually use the one I did as a trivet for hot pots and pans and its stood up to some abuse pretty well. Never clear coated or or anything. I sell everything as "rustic" to kindof cover my tail end as far as perfection (or lack of) goes. 

Anyways, not here to promote dyepress or myself by any means....I just know it works pretty well. I've spoken to Rachel on the phone a few years back....she developed the line cause she wanted to sub saw blades and it went from there I guess. Either way whatever....works for me and I make ok money....thats why were all here to begin with arent we...?


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## Chewy13

My biggest question is though....for all these old-timers....what exactly is this 2 part epoxy marine grade gel super duper glossy matte satin finish etc etc etc stuff. I've heard all SORTS of references to what Gordons auto shop uses and this person did bars stools with hardware store stuff years ago and etc etc. 

Long story short, what is it? Poly...I get it...figured that much out. And apperantly it needs a catalyst. Got that too. I know for the dyepress stuff...its 1 oz of poly whatever to 1 ml of catalyst. Is that kindof a set standard? I get theres room for adjustment but in general terms.

Here's my take...I have a dream....that one day I can drive my hoopty to the local Home Depot, hit the paint aisle and buy some stuff off the shelf that I can then take home, mix it up and spray the heck out of some wood and make some cool "rustic" pictures. I HAVE A DREAM....that I can take same said magicaly mixture, paint it on some travetine tiles, mist it with some water, cure, press and POOF, money in my pocket. I HAVE A DREAM brothers and sisters....

Sorry...I think you get what I'm saying here. If you know....lay it out there. Can I buy a $47 can of Poly-Acrylic (stuff in the blue can) and spray it on and itll take sub dye...? YES yes...I know....its not unisub quality stuff. For those of us that don't care about flawless perfection....do us a favor and omit that part. Yellowing is obviously another issue that has been brought up.

I'm just hoping for these vast experienced 2000+ post veterans prior metal/powder coat/chop shop owning, automotive spraying, Australian living folks on here...somebodies gotta have some answers. Dont get me wrong, I like dyepress stuff. Works for what I do. And its not even terribly priced. HOWEVER....I would like to have the ability to mix my own magical concoction. Just sayin. Help is appriciated, critics save your energy.


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## EddieM

I also use the Dye Press and after a lot of testing and working things out i now get great results on wood with it but it took me some time to be able to get the good results every time and i still run into some problems but over all i am very happy with it..


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## N1YDP

does the polycrylic spray work? do you put 2 coats on and cure it?


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## ronrrico

Hi guys, experimenting with the mission impossible "Do it yourself sublimation coating" (on glazed tiles). I have tried a number of different methods/Technics but, I keep on getting these goose bump / pimple looking dots minutes after coating application. I have tried pre-heating, post-heating, cleaning tile before with rubbing alcohol and I still get the bumps. I have used different methods of applying coating: Fine tip (310) spraying, paint brush & foam brush. Paint brush results: not a good result, very streaky and still get bumps. Foam Brush results: this method actually gave me the best results, very few if any pumps. But, need to be very careful with streaks,,, specially in the edges. You need to apply 2 coats and you need to apply second coat once first coat is completely dry,, NOT before. Spry coating results: Then you first apply spray coating it looks BEAUTIFUL! LIKE GLASS! But, 2-3 min later bumps start rising out of nowhere... :-( . I performed these coating applications in a decent dust free area and, I think dust can be ruled out as a cause. It looks to me more like a chemical reaction where, bumps are actually bubble caused by gases/fumes of the coating. Thinking of mixing something with the coating to neutralize this bubble reaction... Any suggestions out there? I did one other experiment that I want to share: I use Minwax Spray Polyurethane for coating and I got a perfect finish on the tile, No bubles, no streaks, PERFECT. The image transfer was also PERFECT. The only downfall I encountered is that when curing in the oven the tile got sightly yellow and, when I did the image transfer on the heat press it got a bit more yellow. So if you can get away with a briquette / cream color tile this is a great alternative. Example: If you are transferring an image of a art/oil painting or, an image that dose not require a true white this is perfect. Not sure what the long term affects of using the Polyurethane spray will be but, if you apply a finish coat of Crystal Clear Enamel Spray it should last you a while. Water proof? Don't know.. 
Let me here your thought and solutions...

Thanks,
Ronnie


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## erosprintings

Dear friend
I recently faced a problem with pressing vinyl on apparels. I use it a long time and never had this problem.. the vinyl was get off the cloth..
Does anyone have a clue what is went wrong? (time pressure, pressure or something on the surface of the cloth which is 100% cotton


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## jestjoking69

Okay I saw the part about the polyurethane clear coat from a spray can so I decided to try it on some license plates that we're not sublimation plates. Three coats of Minwax fast drying polyurethane clear gloss let sit for 24 hours. I'm using a 3D vacuum heat press heat set at 185 time 2 minutes 40 seconds. It works. The first to plates at pressed the paper stuck because I had the Press too hot so I had to lower the temperature & the time. If you want you can email me and I will send you pictures of the clear coat the heat press and the finished product. [email protected]


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## trecenters

Has anyone tried using this AvianiX HydroPowder polyester powder coat solution instead of polyurethane clear coat?


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## selanac

No, never heard of it. Do you have a website we can look at? I.E. the place that sells it.


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## trecenters

selanac said:


> No, never heard of it. Do you have a website we can look at? I.E. the place that sells it.


AvianiX HydroPowder - AvianiX.com


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## selanac

Thank you, I'll check that out.


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## modelaratrod

skdave said:


> Laser is not a good option. It will throw a nasty burr on Aluminum
> I would do ALL fabrication before coating of any kind. I use to own a huge Metal fab company and a powder coat company. Tiger makes a powder coat that dye subs nicely as well. FYI


SK any info on this powder coating you referenced?

Or any other powder coating that can be sublimated?


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## selanac

Concerning the Bump issues. Have you sanded between coats? I know when painting metal, you get bumps when it's too cold. Keep the ceramic products in a warm place like 70 degrees before, during and drying process. Keep them overnight in a warm place. 

You didn't mention the environment during the thread of your post.


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## ChicagoMeanMugz

selanac said:


> Concerning the Bump issues. Have you sanded between coats? I know when painting metal, you get bumps when it's too cold. Keep the ceramic products in a warm place like 70 degrees before, during and drying process. Keep them overnight in a warm place.
> 
> You didn't mention the environment during the thread of your post.


Was wondering about that too. Or maybe you need a quick bake after first coat. Why is this impossible for people to not have the recipe, when companies have been doing it for ages. Nobody ever quit and sold the secret? LoL


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## lcasstle33

You definitely want to clean the surface good with alcohol, or the like.

Then make sure your humidity is good, not too wet, not too dry.

If using a polymer you brush on or gravity feed spray, you can use floetrol as it makes the resin level out better by slowing the drying time.

Then let it dry properly and cure it properly.

Finally, heat before printing, pre-press to cure more and remove moisture, also pre-heat sublimation paper for the same reason.


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