# What shirts can you use for sublimation?



## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

I've got an Epson 1400. I was looking at maybe doing some sublimation. I don't really do printed stuff as I never like the heat transfers. Though I've got dye ink and haven't tried it with pigment ink.

But I've got some things I need printed on a white shirt. Some out of Corel Draw, and some from pictures.

I've tried DTG in the past from tshirt shops, but it always looked like crap.

So I was thinking of trying sublimation instead of trying heat transfers with pigment ink, but it's my understanding you need certain shirts to do this on.

I usually use AA 2001 or NL 3600. So I like fashion fit shirts, but would like them to be a heavier weight since thin white shirts usually are too see through for my liking.

How well does the sublimation hold the detail? Like if you have a nice sharp photo of someone, will it still look like a nice sharp photo after you apply the sublimation? Or does it blurr out?


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

You need light or white polyester shirts. 

The image quality for (properly) sublimated apparel is superior to anything else available, because it actually dyes the fabric. Unlike other methods it is not an ink or coating applied over the fabric.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

GordonM said:


> You need light or white polyester shirts.
> 
> The image quality for (properly) sublimated apparel is superior to anything else available, because it actually dyes the fabric. Unlike other methods it is not an ink or coating applied over the fabric.


What I was looking at was the sharpness of the image? Like if you have a very sharp high DPI photo, will it still look like a sharp high DPI image after sublimation? Or would it soften?

I know of the heat transfers, the image kinda softens and looses it's sharpness.

I've got an Epson 1400 that I've been using dye ink in. So I don't even know if I can flush out the head and switch over to the sublimation to make a few shirts, and then flush and switch back to the dye ink for regular printing.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

jasonsmith said:


> What I was looking at was the sharpness of the image? Like if you have a very sharp high DPI photo, will it still look like a sharp high DPI image after sublimation? Or would it soften?
> 
> I know of the heat transfers, the image kinda softens and looses it's sharpness.
> 
> I've got an Epson 1400 that I've been using dye ink in. So I don't even know if I can flush out the head and switch over to the sublimation to make a few shirts, and then flush and switch back to the dye ink for regular printing.


If you are going to tackle dye sub it is something, in my opinion, you really either need to jump in all the way or simply have someone else print the transfer sheets for you.

Dye sub can be frustrating at the beginning as there are many things that effect the quality of print and colors.

As far as sharpness of a picture it will depend mostly on the quality of the photo itself and what you are transfering the image to. In very general terms the smoother the surface you are transferring to the better the image thus if transfer the same high res photo to say a coffee cup, tile, etc it will be more vibrant than say a t-shirt. With that said dye sub is still going to give you the best results for applying photos to fabric.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

jasonsmith said:


> Like if you have a very sharp high DPI photo, will it still look like a sharp high DPI image after sublimation? Or would it soften?


It's as sharp as the texture of the fabric will allow. There are many threads in the section of the forum where people have posted pictures of finished pieces. Take a moment to look at some of the "show off" work.



> flush out the head and switch over to the sublimation to make a few shirts, and then flush and switch back to the dye ink for regular printing.


That's wasteful. Sublimation ink is expensive, no matter who you buy it from. It's cheaper to dedicate a separate printer to it. If you don't think you'll print enough to make that worthwhile, send out your sub printing. There are numerous members here that offer that service. 

For that matter, you could try out the concept of sublimation printing for the cost of a transfer -- about a buck -- plus shipping.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

GordonM said:


> It's as sharp as the texture of the fabric will allow. There are many threads in the section of the forum where people have posted pictures of finished pieces. Take a moment to look at some of the "show off" work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know if Cobra is still doing sub ink, but I think it was priced the same as their regular dye ink.

It's not wasteful, there isn't much ink in the head when you flush the head to clear the ink out of it if you change ink type.

I'm getting some pigment ink and sub ink transfers samples in already printed. So I'll press both and see which I like better. 

From my experience, I don't like the tshirt heat transfers, though the ones I've done with the Epson printer and heat press, it was done with dye ink. So the pigment ink transfer sample I get in will let me know if the heat transfer is even a viable option as I think I've only used dye ink on the heat tranfers I've tried in the past. And they come out looking like garbage after the wash and faded. Though some papers don't show cracks near as much compared to other papers. I don't see how people can wear a cracked mess on the front of their shirt.

The only problem I see with the sub ink is having to go 100% Polyester. As your shirt options are very limited, and I don't really like Polyester anyways. But there may be some of those specialty polyester shirts that feel nice.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jasonsmith said:


> I don't know if Cobra is still doing sub ink, but I think it was priced the same as their regular dye ink.
> 
> It's not wasteful, there isn't much ink in the head when you flush the head to clear the ink out of it if you change ink type.
> 
> ...


There is inevitable waste when you swap carts, although the heads only contain a miniscule amount of inks inside them, once the printer detects a changed cart an automatic head clean will occur, this pushes though a lot more ink than just what the heads hold. Then when you swap back to the "primary" inks the same thing happens again. So 2 head cleans occur to swap out carts on demand.

If you were using Epson inks in one cart set and also used Sawgrass Artanium inks put into a refillable cart set then the cost of swapping the 2 carts would be about $2. If the sub carts were prefilled and not refillable (as supplied by Sawgrass) then your cost would be about $6 dollars for the cart swaps.

_Having said all that I swap carts myself_, but the way I have my business structured is that I average sublimating maybe every 3 days or so, during that time I "que" my orders so that I when I do the sub prints I maybe print 30 - 40 pages in one run. 

I sell wholesale locally to artists and photographers and mostly tiles and some "photo novelty" items including tshirts, no "print on demand". Then I change back and use the pigment inks for regular printing and then also regular inkjet pigment transfers.

Also, both my sub inks and Cobra pigment inks are less cost than the average desktop user pays, so my waste costs are not a factor. 

If you just print a few tshirts after swapping the carts then you have to add the waste costs to your cost of printing. So whether or not to swap carts depends on how you print. 

Many just starting out have to build up their business which takes a while so having a 2nd printer dedicated to sublimation may mean having it sit idle too long ... so either you have to pay the "waste" costs of using a single printer and swap carts, or you have to maintain a second printer that normally sits idle.

So if you have a 2nd printer then you still have some costs involved as you have to print something frequently (even without customer orders) to keep the heads clear. Nozzle checks don't cost much to keep the 2nd printer alive but you have to factor in the purchase price of the 2nd printer, which if you don't do many orders over a period of time this may cost you more than having a single printer and swapping carts. 

If you use a single printer with a dual set of swappable carts then best to print more than a couple of items when you swap, then the "waste" costs are lessened over a larger amount of prints.

Once you get to the point of having enough orders or the need to print daily then a dedicated 2nd printer would make more sense. But I suspect you are under-estimating the costs of the cart swaps .. it depends on the initial ink costs and how many prints you do during the swap.

I use my WF1100 as both pigment and sublimation mainly because I have about 7 different printers where I have my PC's setup and no room for another printer, otherwise I have enough business to keep a 2nd Epson dedicated for sublimation. Since I don't print sublimation everyday I can get by on my setup.

For your question about the difference in quality between sublimation and regular inkjet transfers ...

Certainly sublimation on 100% poly is superior, however, using the correct paper and inks (pigment) with regular inkjet printing then you can make a long lasting durable product and the quality can be very good. 

The real issue is the pricing of the tshirts. $5+ for poly and $1.50 for white 50/50, so it is harder to aggressively discount volume orders of sublimation tshirts vs. regular inkjet transfer tshirts, and depending on the customer requirement, regular inkjet transfers may certainly be good enough and can be made to be good quality in terms of durability and image quality. 

There is no single technology that covers everything, so best to have more tools in your tool box if you sell tshirts.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> What I was looking at was the sharpness of the image? Like if you have a very sharp high DPI photo, will it still look like a sharp high DPI image after sublimation? Or would it soften?


You're limited in DPI to the weave of the substrate you're transferring on to. Look at the shirt you're using closely. No matter how high the resolution of the image is it will be limited to how close those threads are in the shirt.

Use a good shirt and you'll get a better transfer.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

headfirst said:


> You're limited in DPI to the weave of the substrate you're transferring on to. Look at the shirt you're using closely. No matter how high the resolution of the image is it will be limited to how close those threads are in the shirt.
> 
> Use a good shirt and you'll get a better transfer.


100% Dead on. 300 PPI (photo quality) is not really achieveable on garments or mousepads.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

The shirts I use are around $5. I like the fashion fit shirts compared to blocks and huge sleeves.

Right now this is just a hobby. Only way to do it as a business would be selling online like through eBay or something.


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

The thigh knitting on microfiber performance poly makes photographs look great. We print at 150 dpi.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Max Dos said:


> The thigh knitting on microfiber performance poly makes photographs look great. We print at 150 dpi.


What brand 100% poly do you recommend?

I'd like something similar to AA 2001 or NL 3600, except in a heavy weight. As I don't like the see-thru white shirts.


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

I haven't used American Apparel. We have worked with Vapor Micro Performance with great results. Although, being white and kind of sheer, the see trough issue is unavoidable. Those come in a variety os styles. Vapor sells another line of shirts, the basic performance, that are a lot heavier and as opaque as a heavy cotton.

Now we are using our own shirts. No see thru issue because they're black. But we'll have only one style for men and one for ladies fo the moment.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Max Dos said:


> I haven't used American Apparel. We have worked with Vapor Micro Performance with great results. Although, being white and kind of sheer, the see trough issue is unavoidable. Those come in a variety os styles. Vapor sells another line of shirts, the basic performance, that are a lot heavier and as opaque as a heavy cotton.
> 
> Now we are using our own shirts. No see thru issue because they're black. But we'll have only one style for men and one for ladies fo the moment.


Yeah, so far the heaviest 100% Poly I've seen is the Vapor basic shirt at 5.9oz. I hope it isn't blousy and have huge sleeves like a Gildan.

Vapor has an off-white that might be less see-thru than the bright white.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> What brand 100% poly do you recommend?
> 
> I'd like something similar to AA 2001 or NL 3600, except in a heavy weight. As I don't like the see-thru white shirts.



Most of the "I can't believe it's not cotton" shirts are going to have a loose weave. The vapor shirts mentioned above are a bit more opaque but have a different feel. Get one and try it out for yourself.

For the best imaging quality we use polyester tech shirts. Try the Hanes 4820 or any of the A4 shirts.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

headfirst said:


> Most of the "I can't believe it's not cotton" shirts are going to have a loose weave. The vapor shirts mentioned above are a bit more opaque but have a different feel. Get one and try it out for yourself.
> 
> For the best imaging quality we use polyester tech shirts. Try the Hanes 4820 or any of the A4 shirts.


Do you have a link to the tech shirts?


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> Do you have a link to the tech shirts?


https://www.broderbros.com/cgi-bin/online/webshr/prod-detail.w?sr=4820&q=4820


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

headfirst said:


> https://www.broderbros.com/cgi-bin/online/webshr/prod-detail.w?sr=4820&q=4820


Oh, I thought it was a different brand. That Hanes is way too thin.


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

Let's get hanes to start making the soft-link shirts again, they were the best. cotton on the inside/poly on the outside. anyone have connections to Hane's!!! We just sell to people who want the poly apparell. Merry Christmas to all, uncletee


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

uncletee said:


> Let's get hanes to start making the soft-link shirts again, they were the best. cotton on the inside/poly on the outside. anyone have connections to Hane's!!! We just sell to people who want the poly apparell. Merry Christmas to all, uncletee


I got an email from ImprintsUSA last week that they had some back in stock. I've never ordered from them and cannot speak to the deal, but if you're looking for them Welcome to ImprintsUSA


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

Think I'll pick up some for retro-sublimation. have a nice night uncletee.


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

For whites I use Sublivie brand shirts when the customer wants a cottony feel, and A4 N3142 or Hanes 4820's when the customer prefers a harder finish, more synthetic feel. I like Vapor apparel but they are more costly - if the customer appreciates the difference, then I sell those too.

For colored shirts, I stay to black print only, and use the A4's 99% of the time.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Are there not any very opaque 100% poly white shirts made? That's the hang up for me to get into dye sub for tshirts as I can't have white shirts where you can see skin through it.

On the cotton white shirts, I have to get the heavyweight shirts so you can't see anything through them compared to the thinner cotton.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Max Dos said:


> I haven't used American Apparel. We have worked with Vapor Micro Performance with great results. Although, being white and kind of sheer, the see trough issue is unavoidable. Those come in a variety os styles. Vapor sells another line of shirts, the basic performance, that are a lot heavier and as opaque as a heavy cotton.
> 
> Now we are using our own shirts. No see thru issue because they're black. But we'll have only one style for men and one for ladies fo the moment.


 Max i want to try a few of your shirts. How much are they?


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

Hi Dave. We plan to open store mid January with a discounted price of 6.70, but I'll be happy to send you some samples earlier. We think that your see-thru sublimation paper and printing services could be a perfect match to our product.

I´ll contact you as soon as the Holidays pass. Everything gets to a complete stop over here for several days.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Thanks make it after Jan. 9th


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

Sure. Thanks!


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