# what printer to buy for dye sublimation work and where do I get the ink?



## rleebrick

We are new to the business and I am trying to figure out what printer to buy for sublimation work and where di I get the ink? If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.


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## AbstractD

Well to start off with, gotta know your budget. i just started out so my budget is not that big...i picked up an Epson 1400, it's the perfect the size for what im printing, however dont use the ink that comes with it, it's not Sub dye ink. As far as ink, well depend on what your looking for, CIS, or cartridges.... you can check out Conde systems or Coastalbusinessupplies, i usually stick with thoes two... they seem to have what i need.

im sure other will tell you more places to look sine they have been in the game much longer.


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## dim116

some vendors also sell sublimation packages which include the printer, sublimations ink, paper & few supplies. Here is another couple to check with. www.jotopaper.com, www.starlinepacific.com


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## charles95405

After 7 years in sublimation and fighting the frequent clogging issue with ALL epsons...the c80s, c88s, 1280, 1400, c120 I threw in the towel about 18 months ago and bought a Ricoh GX7000 w/gel sublimation ink from Conde and have never looked back..not one single clogging issue...uses less ink...faster and you can print 11x17 out of the box..or get an extra tray for 13x19.. the GX5050 is a bit cheaper, faster (a little) but only does 8.5x14

The GX7000 w/sub ink is about the price of an Epson that prints the same size that uses a bulk system


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## dim116

Although I have had great luck with most of the epson printers I have used in the past 10 years for sublimation, I will be going with the Ricoh system also - when my current Epson finally dies.
Unless something better comes along.


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## generalee72

I'm in the research phase of getting started and am leaning heavily on Ricoh printers via Conde. I just printed out their catalog to look at all their blank products, I also am close to bestblanks.com so I looking at big items through Conde but future blanks through bestblanks so I can drive to pick them up.

But of course in the end I will be getting blanks from whoever is best for me with service, items, quality and value.


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## VinnyYak

charles95405 said:


> the GX5050 is a bit cheaper, faster (a little) but only does 8.5x14
> 
> The GX7000 w/sub ink is about the price of an Epson that prints the same size that uses a bulk system


How many cartridges do the Ricoh GX7000 and GX5050 use? 4 or 6? Can the cartridges in GX5050 be used in GX7000? Is there a big price difference between 7000 and 5050?

I have no problem with my Epson C88+ but when it dies, I won't buy Epson C120. I'll buy Ricoh.

Thank you in advance. I know you'll reply.


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## dtogs

Conde - Ricoh. I run a 7000. Four Ink Carts that work on either 5050 or 7000 Ricoh.


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## uncletee

if you go with an epson use refillable carts, cheaper and less hassle, to get started get a refurbished c-88 and carts, learn and sell some stuff, then you can upgrade. good luck


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## JaeAmera

rleebrick said:


> We are new to the business and I am trying to figure out what printer to buy for sublimation work and where di I get the ink? If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.


It all depends on what you want to produce and how exclusive you desire to be with your products?

I would check vendors in you local area for companies near you that are doing dye sublimation. They will not give you names (not that you need them); you simply need to know who is in your region producing products with the same technology.

Being new, you may not get far with asking, but it is worth a try. I have asked several product vendors about businesses that order/produce dye-sub in my region and they were happy to tell me.

Reason being......you may want to go bigger with your production capabilites. You will not only pick up clients with bigger, more dynamic products; but you will be able to market yourself to others in your same industry who have smaller, desktop sized production capabilities.

Just something to think on.

Jae


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## Pyroshouse

Epson 9800 or 9880 from US Sublimation, ink and printer, they will give you a fully setup machine with inks produce independent icc profiles for any subtrate you send them, and in general always support you. With a Large format you can print faster and cheaper than anyone else in your area.


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## Riderz Ready

uncletee said:


> if you go with an epson use refillable carts, cheaper and less hassle, to get started get a refurbished c-88 and carts, learn and sell some stuff, then you can upgrade. good luck


Well stated - dye sublimation is not as easy from a technical standpoint as it is sometimes made out to be in sales seminars. Making a profit is also more difficult then creating a web site or contacting a church/school. Start off with the smallest less expensive system. Keep it simple - and do not get talked into CIS delivery system, etc. You can get into a small system for less then a grand including a heat press. Once you understand the technical side and what markets you can attack you will be much better informed on to what system is best for your goals. Just as a side note - getting a large format printer as mentioned previously is great. The part left out is you need a Maxipress or like to go along with it. To get into large format you are talking $15,000 and that is on the low side. That is a pretty big investment unless you you know your market and the process.


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## Artsplace-CBR

I got away from Dye Sub a long time ago, seems all I did was waste ink that cost about $400.00 for a set of 4. Between clogs & head cleaning it was a waste plus you can only
print on white poly. The blank shirts cost more than I sell my printed shirts for in some instances.


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## Pyroshouse

On-line Jerseys said:


> Well stated - getting a large format printer as mentioned previously is great. The part left out is you need a Maxipress or like to go along with it. To get into large format you are talking $15,000 and that is on the low side. That is a pretty big investment unless you you know your market and the process.


Ok you can go get a maxi if you like how ever if you are doing shirts and shorts etc, you can simply buy 13 inch rolls not 44inch the cost difference is minimal, per square inch. And then use a standard 16x20. Which is what nine out of ten people want it for. I still use 13 inch rolls on a regular basis and take advantage of the speed of the machine, we also print many one offs for proofs of design with this system so the 13 inch and 16x20 are always at the ready. when you want to start a cut and sew operation for uniforms you then buy the maxi and press two shirts or three pants or 10 shorts at once cut them and sew them then charge the real money for a 165 dollar football uniform. But you have to build to that. But right now on ebay or cragslist you will find a pleathera of cheap 9600's 9800's and 9880's many refurbished with warranties. But that may be to much for your budget, at this time, so go small format 1400, with ciss. just understand you will have to get 20-25 a shirt and that means one offs!!!!!! But my first year I made 40,000 dollars doing one off shirts, and license plates, with a smattering off trucker hats. And that was in a fleamarket three days a week.


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## Pyroshouse

Artsplace-CBR said:


> I got away from Dye Sub a long time ago, seems all I did was waste ink that cost about $400.00 for a set of 4. Between clogs & head cleaning it was a waste plus you can only
> print on white poly. The blank shirts cost more than I sell my printed shirts for in some instances.




Hehe That is where large format and full print cut and sew dominates


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## PUGAMOM

Well it's 2014 and would like to purchase a sublimation printer. Anyone know what's out there and current???


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## uncletee

If you can find old epson WF1100 they are awesome. new stuff don't know to much about. good luck uncletee


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## Bagz1009

I was in between the epson 7010 or 1100... I could always print multiple images and cut them, then sublimate them in mugs, license plates, mouse pads, etc right...

The only difficulty I'm having right now is looking for a third party who sells sublimation inks. Sawgrass and arts noun are pricey for me. The only purchase I have made is a geo knight 12x9 press.

So now, I need a starter printer that may last for a low start up cost... I couldn't find cobra ink with sub ink. Plus I want the icc profiles to be quick and easy for me, as I am not computer savvy and I haven't started the hobby/business yet.

A lot of research between refillable cartridges or CISS... So any sources for sublimation inks that aren't pricey and with proper profiles? 
All I have is the heat press so far... So I know I need;
-sublimation printer
-sublimation ink
-sublimation transfer paper
-heat resistant tape
-sublimation blank
-I already have adobe photoshop
Don't think I need adobe illustrator or drawing tablet right now...

Any thoughts?


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## dbilik

I would be interested in this also. I want to get a printer but not sure where to start, most threads I have been finding are a few years old.


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## battman2036

I'm also on the verge of buying an entry level printer. any guidance is appreciated


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## jpiearce

go to conde systems.com they are super helpful. they helped me set up all my dye sublimation. 




rleebrick said:


> We are new to the business and I am trying to figure out what printer to buy for sublimation work and where di I get the ink? If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.


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## jpiearce

conde systems.com was super helpful to me


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## FatboyGraphics

Epson 7800 (7880) and Refillable cartridges....best investment i made in my business.
I'm looking to upgrade to a 9800....and a large format press I hope soon.


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## Bagz1009

FatboyGraphics said:


> Epson 7800 (7880) and Refillable cartridges....best investment i made in my business.
> I'm looking to upgrade to a 9800....and a large format press I hope soon.


FatboyGraphics,
Where do you get your third party sublimation inks? Sawgrass and Artanium are too pricey for an entry level self started...


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## FatboyGraphics

Bagz1009 said:


> FatboyGraphics,
> Where do you get your third party sublimation inks? Sawgrass and Artanium are too pricey for an entry level self started...


I currently use Sublime inks and pay around $180 a liter.


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## dim116

Another good place for sublimation equipment & supplies is www.jotopaper.com


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## kentpyper

Has anyone used Chinese ink?
Do you have to have rip software?
I have Illustrator, photoshop, coreldraw, can I print directly from the software as it sits?
When they say "profiles" do i have to change settings depending on which ink i get?

Everyone would LOVE to goto Conde and pay full price for a brand new printer, but the reason most of us don't, is because money is a real issue and I am sure once we get started and sell some items, we can walk right in the front door of Conde and spend$$$$ for the cool shiney stuff.

Right now, I would like to know how to start on the less expensive side using a CIS and an Epson printer.

I went to a mostly Chinese website called alibaba and typed in "sublimation ink" and they have a HUGE selection. Has anyone tried it?

Kent


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## battman2036

After reading quite a bit in these forums, I would shy away from there. I'm using Cobra Inks. They work great. You need to ask for the high temp inks and most likely will be pushed to the Tech guy before they let you buy. Weird, but worth the 5 minute talk. Prices are very reasonable and they have printers too.


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## kentpyper

Thank you for the Cobra ink suggestions, now... ON TO GOOGLE!!!!


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## dim116

Ever hear the old expression - "you get what you pay for". This applies strongly to sublimation inks/equipment. My suggestion is to buy from a reputable North American supplier with the correct profiles for the ink/equipment purchased (and support). Then price your printed products appropriately to make money. If you go the other route you will most likely have problems & no support & you will become frustrated.


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## paintersspouse

Cobra is a reputable North American supplier that supplies American made ink and all the support you could possible ask for.


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## kentpyper

Is there a good place to find these items used?
Kent


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## battman2036

Personally I'd shy away from used unless you get one from a business or here maybe. You run the risk of unforeseen issues as well as lack of support. That being said you may be able to find a used unit at a discount from a member or from a leasing company.


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## Bagz1009

I emailed cobra inks and responded that they no longer carried thermal ink or dye subs.

I purchased a refurbished epson wf 7010 with refillable carts and bought sublimation ink from amazon😁. When I attempted to print, only strips of cyan and magenta streaked the paper... I don't know how to play with icc profiles... I don't see it on orintwr settings on computer... Assist?


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## battman2036

Cobra carries "high temp ink". I just bought my printer and inks there last month. Call and talk with Richard on Monday.


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## mgparrish

Bagz1009 said:


> I emailed cobra inks and responded that they no longer carried thermal ink or dye subs.
> 
> I purchased a refurbished epson wf 7010 with refillable carts and bought sublimation ink from amazon&#55357;&#56833;. When I attempted to print, only strips of cyan and magenta streaked the paper... I don't know how to play with icc profiles... I don't see it on orintwr settings on computer... Assist?


These profiles you see in your computer are not sublimation profiles. You need an ICC profile sublimation profile that is specific to the inks and printer you have. Most likely that ink vendor on Amazon doesn't have those.

For your "strips" you need to know how to prime your refillable cart, you need to pull ink from the bottom (about 1 CC) with a syringe and a small plastic attachment in most cases. Some carts prime from the top using a larger syringe. Talk to the refillable cart supplier if they carry that.

This removes air bubbles when the carts are filled.


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## dim116

I was under the impression that Cobra was not allowed to sell Sublimation (high temp) inks anymore due to a lawsuit by Sawgrass a couple years ago. Is this not correct?


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## dim116

Also, once you install the ICC profiles for the printer/sub inks. You will not have to be playing around with them. For Artanium (which I use) you just have to make sure that this setting is on - nothing else.

For Power Driver, I believe you can choose the item you are printing for. Example: mugs, cloth, metal, etc..
That's it.


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## paintersspouse

dim116 said:


> I was under the impression that Cobra was not allowed to sell Sublimation (high temp) inks anymore due to a lawsuit by Sawgrass a couple years ago. Is this not correct?


Cobra was not sued that I know of. I also think Sawgrass has stopped suing as the last lawsuit did not really result in a good outcome.


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## Bagz1009

For your "strips" you need to know how to prime your refillable cart, you need to pull ink from the bottom (about 1 CC) with a syringe and a small plastic attachment in most cases. Some carts prime from the top using a larger syringe. Talk to the refillable cart supplier if they carry that.

This removes air bubbles when the carts are filled.[/QUOTE]


I already poked a hole at the bottom of my carts.,, so basically I have to poke a deeper hole and extract about 1cc of ink from the bottom of the cart? As far as icc profile, I get install one vs cause I have Amazon inks? I thought I've read that I canon populate/configure the CMYK? I don't see that in my printer settings...
So priming the carts properly will resolve the ink streaks on my paper?


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## mgparrish

Bagz1009 said:


> For your "strips" you need to know how to prime your refillable cart, you need to pull ink from the bottom (about 1 CC) with a syringe and a small plastic attachment in most cases. Some carts prime from the top using a larger syringe. Talk to the refillable cart supplier if they carry that.
> 
> This removes air bubbles when the carts are filled.
> 
> 
> I already poked a hole at the bottom of my carts.,, so basically I have to poke a deeper hole and extract about 1cc of ink from the bottom of the cart?
> 
> Yes. But I'm not sure what you mean by poking a hole. You need an adapter on the syringe to keep from damaging the cart.
> 
> The adapter looks like this ...
> 
> MIS-BADP - BOTTOM FILL ADAPTER - Inksupply.com
> 
> Keep the carts upright at all times, if you store them put tape on the bottom. If you don't let your ink levels go too low you usually won't need to do this very often.
> 
> As far as icc profile, I get install one vs cause I have Amazon inks?
> 
> Unless the ink vendor supplies one or you have one made then you do not get adequate color correction.
> 
> I thought I've read that I canon populate/configure the CMYK? I don't see that in my printer settings...
> 
> While it is possible to configure the Color Controls in the "Advanced" section of the Epson driver, you can't really fix the color error, you might improve it somewhat, but it won't be very good. Your graphics program will give you more control over your output, but this isn't very good either, you really need a sublimation ICC for the best accuracy.
> 
> If you use a vector program like Corel Draw you can have some luck using "swatches". Works OK for line art, but photos very hard to "dial in".
> 
> Swatches ...
> 
> CMYK & RGB Color Charts - MultiRIP Sublimation, Transfers, Photograph and Direct-to-Garment Printing RIP Softwares
> 
> So priming the carts properly will resolve the ink streaks on my paper?
> 
> It should. After installing do a nozzle check. It usually is needed to do a head clean or 2 after re-installing the carts.


I Marked up in your text above.


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## Archaga

So, just to be completely sure I understood what's being said. People recommend Cobra inks for sublimations but they don't sell sublimation ink. So, is "High Temp Ink" is just their way of selling sublimation ink without calling it "sublimation ink?" Or am I missing something?


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## battman2036

Now you've got it. High temp ink = sublimation ink. They don't list it but if you call and explain what you're looking for they have it


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## Bagz1009

I'm still getting streaks in my prints with my epson 7010. I primed the refillable carts. Below is the attachment. You can see at the top of no ink (the white strip not covered in black), then you can see streaks of magenta in the other parts of the image. 

Any advice? I don't want to purchase a new printer. There are only 3 buttons on the epson and I really don't know how to play with it.

Ideas?


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## mgparrish

Bagz1009 said:


> I'm still getting streaks in my prints with my epson 7010. I primed the refillable carts. Below is the attachment. You can see at the top of no ink (the white strip not covered in black), then you can see streaks of magenta in the other parts of the image.
> 
> Any advice? I don't want to purchase a new printer. There are only 3 buttons on the epson and I really don't know how to play with it.
> 
> Ideas?


 I assume you tried head cleaning?

You must learn your printer if you want to sublimate, knowing how to play with those 3 buttons is an important part of your printer operation. You can do a head clean there on your front panel or you can do it through the Epson driver. Suggest that you download the manual from the website.

Sometimes if you have the resolution set too low then you can get banding, the "quality" or resolution setting can be set through the Epson driver, also, having the wrong paper type ... should usually be "matte" paper or plain paper for sublimation. You can also turn off high speed printing, that might help in some case.


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## Bagz1009

I've done a head cleaning before...

And I've done another head cleaning and it looks like my black print head is clogged. the epson site just days to wait 6 hours and check again... Or it could be my carts that maybe be old or worn... My carts are brand new. 

Is there a way to clean it here at home?

I both the epson 7010 refurbished from epson site. I thought refurbished means it has been repaired/fix to new/like new condition. It looks brand new and clean.


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## uncletee

I sometimes wet the middle part of paper with windex, and print some design so it hits the middle. helps loosen heads. also put some windex on the docking station and then turn off printer. good luck uncletee.


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## Swindle

I am also interested in what modern printers there are that can be used for dye sublimation. Going to the Conde site only gave me a small amount of information since I couldn't quite figure out how to circumvent signing up for purchasing stuff. Printer support offers some info, I guess. My budget is $300 and I was hoping for a CIS that Cobra sells, unfortunately, the overlap between Conde and Cobra Ink doesn't seem to be quite large.

Sorry to interrupt the troubleshooting.


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## Pyroshouse

Swindle said:


> I am also interested in what modern printers there are that can be used for dye sublimation. Going to the Conde site only gave me a small amount of information since I couldn't quite figure out how to circumvent signing up for purchasing stuff. Printer support offers some info, I guess. My budget is $300 and I was hoping for a CIS that Cobra sells, unfortunately, the overlap between Conde and Cobra Ink doesn't seem to be quite large.
> 
> Sorry to interrupt the troubleshooting.





Swindle said:


> I am also interested in what modern printers there are that can be used for dye sublimation. Going to the Conde site only gave me a small amount of information since I couldn't quite figure out how to circumvent signing up for purchasing stuff. Printer support offers some info, I guess. My budget is $300 and I was hoping for a CIS that Cobra sells, unfortunately, the overlap between Conde and Cobra Ink doesn't seem to be quite large.
> 
> Sorry to interrupt the troubleshooting.





Swindle as far a legal means of small format dye sublimation which is the only way to get trouble shooting and icc profile installation help you are looking at Sawgrass owned inks in either a Ricoh or Epson Printer. I have been using large format sublimation for the last six years do to the cost of small format ink. IE the small Format ounce to ounce is six to 10 times greater. Currently to use an epson 1430 with a Sawgrass CSS and bagged ink the cheapest option unless you use the Epson Work Force 30 which uses two less colors and doen't have as good of black or photo reproduction. You can save 250 dollars startup. IE Epson WF30 $89.99 Ink CSS $130.00 PowerDriver Free, Ink Set $620.00 Total Startup $850.00

Or Epson SureColor T7000 $4000-5000, a set of Refillable Ink Carts $250 a second set of Refilable Carts to use for Cleaning solution. Four Liter Bottles of ink $720 Total start up 

Used Epson 9800 or 9880 $1000 - $4000 depending on luck Same Refillable Carts and Six one liter Bottles of ink.

My first question after the shell Shock of the price fro startup is what Are you wanting to make?

Hard Surface products 

Or T-Shirts

Or Both?


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## Pyroshouse

Bagz1009 said:


> I'm still getting streaks in my prints with my epson 7010. I primed the refillable carts. Below is the attachment. You can see at the top of no ink (the white strip not covered in black), then you can see streaks of magenta in the other parts of the image.
> 
> Any advice? I don't want to purchase a new printer. There are only 3 buttons on the epson and I really don't know how to play with it.
> 
> Ideas?



You said the printer was a refurbished printer, that is the first problem there, unless you cleaned the ink out of the print head and I mean all of the ink out your dye sublimation ink is NOT compatible with the ink that would have been in the machine from the first person that purchased the machine. As far as ICC profiles go you can go online and find them they will not be exact matches but without dumping your entire setup and going with sawgrass and their power driver, you will never get true reproduction simply because the ink you are using was for a 42 inch or larger printer and that printer would have more sophisticated software ie RIP to deal with the ICC issues that not to say it can't be done just not legally.

But some things to try on the bar issue one Run the Cleaning cycle sometimes takes litterally 6 times to get all of the funny little spray bars there. Then RUN a PRINTHEAD alignment. If those don't work. Find purge files and purge the hell out of you printer this most likely will burn a very large amount of ink, so hope you have a ciss and lots of ink not carts. 

Once you have the printer not baring or skipping prints. Go into the print driver advanced setting and turn off anything that says high speed quick or anything up that alley. Turn on photo smoothing and picture correction. Try all of the settings under picture correction, until you are at least satisfied with the print.

ALSO last but not least remember that until it is HEATED Dye Sub Ink is dull and lifeless. So you have to put it to metal or to cloth to really see if you like your print.

Hope some of that or all of it helps


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## mgparrish

Pyroshouse said:


> *Swindle as far a legal means of small format dye sublimation which is the only way to get trouble shooting and icc profile installation help you are looking at Sawgrass owned inks in either a Ricoh or Epson Printer.* I have been using large format sublimation for the last six years do to the cost of small format ink. IE the small Format ounce to ounce is six to 10 times greater. Currently to use an epson 1430 with a Sawgrass CSS and bagged ink the cheapest option unless you use the Epson Work Force 30 which uses two less colors and doen't have as good of black or photo reproduction. You can save 250 dollars startup. IE Epson WF30 $89.99 Ink CSS $130.00 PowerDriver Free, Ink Set $620.00 Total Startup $850.00
> 
> Or Epson SureColor T7000 $4000-5000, a set of Refillable Ink Carts $250 a second set of Refilable Carts to use for Cleaning solution. Four Liter Bottles of ink $720 Total start up
> 
> Used Epson 9800 or 9880 $1000 - $4000 depending on luck Same Refillable Carts and Six one liter Bottles of ink.
> 
> My first question after the shell Shock of the price fro startup is what Are you wanting to make?
> 
> Hard Surface products
> 
> Or T-Shirts
> 
> Or Both?


 
Not true. 

1. Sawgrass owns a patent, it is up to a court to determine of a competitor is infringing a patent. It is also up to Sawgrass to pursue such actions. As such unless a court awards to Sawgrass and gets an injunction then any sublimation ink is "legal" till it is found infringing.

2. I use Cobra inks and there is support and ICC's.


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## Swindle

Pyroshouse said:


> Swindle as far a legal means of small format dye sublimation which is the only way to get trouble shooting and icc profile installation help you are looking at Sawgrass owned inks in either a Ricoh or Epson Printer. I have been using large format sublimation for the last six years do to the cost of small format ink. IE the small Format ounce to ounce is six to 10 times greater. Currently to use an epson 1430 with a Sawgrass CSS and bagged ink the cheapest option unless you use the Epson Work Force 30 which uses two less colors and doen't have as good of black or photo reproduction. You can save 250 dollars startup. IE Epson WF30 $89.99 Ink CSS $130.00 PowerDriver Free, Ink Set $620.00 Total Startup $850.00
> 
> Or Epson SureColor T7000 $4000-5000, a set of Refillable Ink Carts $250 a second set of Refilable Carts to use for Cleaning solution. Four Liter Bottles of ink $720 Total start up
> 
> Used Epson 9800 or 9880 $1000 - $4000 depending on luck Same Refillable Carts and Six one liter Bottles of ink.
> 
> My first question after the shell Shock of the price fro startup is what Are you wanting to make?
> 
> Hard Surface products
> 
> Or T-Shirts
> 
> Or Both?


Soft, fabric surface. The lack of colors doesn't phase me much, as I plan on dealing with darks/blacks a lot. Yet you did said that blacks were an issue on the WF 30, so I am concerned.


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## mgparrish

Pyroshouse said:


> You said the printer was a refurbished printer, that is the first problem there, *unless you cleaned the ink out of the print head and I mean all of the ink out your dye sublimation ink is NOT compatible with the ink that would have been in the machine from the first person that purchased the machine.* As far as ICC profiles go you can go online and find them they will not be exact matches but without dumping your entire setup and going with sawgrass and their power driver, you will never get true reproduction simply *because the ink you are using was for a 42 inch or larger printer and that printer would have more sophisticated software ie RIP to deal with the ICC issues that not to say it can't be done just not legally.*
> 
> But some things to try on the bar issue one Run the Cleaning cycle sometimes takes litterally 6 times to get all of the funny little spray bars there. Then RUN a PRINTHEAD alignment. If those don't work. Find purge files and purge the hell out of you printer this most likely will burn a very large amount of ink, so hope you have a ciss and lots of ink not carts.
> 
> Once you have the printer not baring or skipping prints. Go into the print driver advanced setting and turn off anything that says high speed quick or anything up that alley. Turn on photo smoothing and picture correction. Try all of the settings under picture correction, until you are at least satisfied with the print.
> 
> ALSO last but not least remember that until it is HEATED Dye Sub Ink is dull and lifeless. So you have to put it to metal or to cloth to really see if you like your print.
> 
> Hope some of that or all of it helps


Again not true.

I have been using desktop Epsons as long as sublimation inks have been around.

I routinely swap ink carts using different ink types in small desktops where the print head travels with the carriage. Once the new cart is installed then the firmware automatically does a forced head clean and ink charge. The amount of ink contained in the print head at any one time is miniscule compared to the ink volume in the head clean. As such, the old inks are completely displaced and the new ink replaces it.

Also, refurbs or new printers they start with no ink in the print head, it is cleaned out by the factory, otherwise you would have clog problems with the printer sitting in a warehouse in a box not being used for months. 

The inks from Amazon are for >42 inch printers? The OP has refillable carts with sublimation ink from Amazon.

And again it is not against the law to use any 3rd party inks unless the 3rd party inks are found infringing, so he could use the ink "legally".


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## mgparrish

Swindle said:


> Soft, fabric surface and I think that I can bring down the price to $500 - $600 if I use a Cobra CIS refillable and Cobra High temp ink. I'm not certain how much it will cost, but I've read in this very thread that it is a fraction of sawgrass's price. The lack of colors doesn't phase me much, as I plan on dealing with darks/blacks a lot. Yet you did say that blacks were an issue on the WF 30.


 Blacks should not be an issue on the WF30 unless you are not color managing, color managing properly, or have poor black sub inks. The WF30 model has nothing to do with any black quality. Cobra has good blacks.


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## Pyroshouse

mgparrish said:


> Again not true.
> 
> I have been using desktop Epsons as long as sublimation inks have been around.
> 
> I routinely swap ink carts using different ink types in small desktops where the print head travels with the carriage. Once the new cart is installed then the firmware automatically does a forced head clean and ink charge. The amount of ink contained in the print head at any one time is miniscule compared to the ink volume in the head clean. As such, the old inks are completely displaced and the new ink replaces it.
> 
> Also, refurbs or new printers they start with no ink in the print head, it is cleaned out by the factory, otherwise you would have clog problems with the printer sitting in a warehouse in a box not being used for months.
> 
> The inks from Amazon are for >42 inch printers? The OP has refillable carts with sublimation ink from Amazon.
> 
> And again it is not against the law to use any 3rd party inks unless the 3rd party inks are found infringing, so he could use the ink "legally".


I am Really glad you haven't had any problems with swapping you carts. Every used refurbished printer I have bought two from Epson had ink in the machine, I haven't had great luck in that situation.

As far as infringing YOU the user are the one USING THE ink not the seller the seller states it is for 42inch or larger printers, so they will not be infringing. I personally value my company and business higher than infringing on patents. In the last six years I have used three different ink companies everyone has asked for the serial numbers on my printer to confirm I am using a legal printer. Unless you are a lawyer and willing to defend this man at a later date I would not act as one, telling him he is not infringing. Patent law is air tight and has teeth you can loose everything. That is why I said not exactly legal. BTW the companies I have used in the past are Conde, Us Sublimation, and direct from T-Jeck Eco. Call any or all of them and ask them if it is their understanding that you would be infringing on the patent, not that they are lawyers of course you could call Sawgrasses legal department and ask them. I gave my two cents if someone wants to ignore it that's there option.


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## Pyroshouse

Swindle said:


> Soft, fabric surface. The lack of colors doesn't phase me much, as I plan on dealing with darks/blacks a lot. Yet you did said that blacks were an issue on the WF 30, so I am concerned.


Ok so If you are going cloth only why did you land on dye sublimation?
Dye is going to require a 100% Polyester shirts. Head to head just a regular printer with Epson 1430, with a High temp heat press dye ink with Jet pro softstretch or house brand. You can set that up for dirt cheap compared to dye sublimation ink. There is some confusion between dye ink and dye sublimation ink. High temp dye ink from say COBRA here is a link that should clear that up https://cobraink.com/ink/ink dye base.htm . Dye sublimation ink is for polyester or polyester coated materials that is what this thread was started for.

https://cobraink.com/Printers/epson30.htm 150 fifty bucks
Cobra CP-650 ink this is their ink for t-shirts https://cobraink.com/ink/ink pigment.htm
JPSS paper 8.5x11 and 13x19
Jet Dark or 3g 8.5x11 and 11x17

That setup is easy ready to go and should work well for any cotton cotton blend shirts you also should not have any setup problems there ink comes with icc profiles and good people to help you setup. 

You also shouldn't have problems with blacks as the icc profile will be set for the ink

Oh and this is all 110% none infringing.


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## mgparrish

Pyroshouse said:


> *I am Really glad you haven't had any problems with swapping you carts.*
> 
> Sawgrass advises to install the OEM ink PRIOR to installing sublimation. IT IS SAFE TO SWAP INKS IN EPSON DESKTOPS THAT HAVE THE CARTS TRANSPORTING ABOVE THE PRINTHEAD.
> 
> Every used refurbished printer I have bought two from Epson had ink in the machine, I haven't had great luck in that situation.
> 
> *As far as infringing YOU the user are the one USING THE ink not the seller the seller states it is for 42inch or larger printers, so they will not be infringing*.
> 
> **********************************
> 
> The OP only mentioned buying inks from Amazon,
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t105844-3.html#post1884945
> 
> "I purchased a refurbished epson wf 7010 with refillable carts and bought sublimation ink from amazon."
> 
> I see no mention of what vendor the OP bought from. Are you ASSUMING that sublimation inks sold on Amazon are for >42 printers?
> 
> The other point you are making about >42 inks where YOU are infringing and not the seller, _that is false also_.
> 
> If the inks were being sold and for greater than >42 usage then the SELLER has highly likely obtained a license to use the ink. Once a license has been paid by any party in the sales "chain" then patent laws no longer apply, it's called the first sale doctrine. The last test on this was upheld by SCOTUS a few years back. In plain English the US patent is "exhausted" once a license has been paid for anywhere "downstream".
> 
> This concept in law has been around for maybe over a hundred years, recently it was "tested" and the SCOTUS reaffirmed the validity of the concept.
> 
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/06/supreme-court-victory-patent-first-sale-doctrine
> 
> The actual case is here ...
> 
> http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-937.pdf
> 
> *I personally value my company and business higher than infringing on patents. In the last six years I have used three different ink companies everyone has asked for the serial numbers on my printer to confirm I am using a legal printer. Unless you are a lawyer and willing to defend this man at a later date I would not act as one, telling him he is not infringing. Patent law is air tight and has teeth you can loose everything.
> *
> I'm an Electronics Engineer and routinely review patents for technical issues with patent Attorneys in the course of my employment.
> 
> For your reference ....
> 
> http://www.itworld.com/it-management/401487/us-supreme-court-burden-proof-infringement-patent-holder
> 
> *"January 23, 2014, 2:23 AM* — The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld that it is up to the patent holder ordinarily to prove infringement in a lawsuit, a ruling that could have vast implications on the litigious technology industry."
> 
> 
> http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/01/o...uits-mastery-of-federal-procedure-curriculum/
> 
> The actual law below simply reaffirms (upholds) previous question of burden of proof, the law is here.
> 
> http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1128_h315.pdf
> 
> That is why I said not exactly legal. BTW the companies I have used in the past are Conde, Us Sublimation, and direct from T-Jeck Eco. *Call any or all of them and ask them if it is their understanding that you would be infringing on the patent, not that they are lawyers of course you could call Sawgrasses legal department and ask them.
> *
> How can one make an opinion of infringement without a *Markman *Hearing and expert testimony? BTW, I doubt you are familiar with TOG vs Sawgrass?
> 
> I gave my two cents if someone wants to ignore it that's there option.


See the markups above. 

As far as putting sublimation inks in a desktop printer that has had pigment inks previously in it be advised that _Sawgrass advises to put in the original carts_ in their initial setup instructions before installing the sub inks. _No special purging or cleaning required.
_They have sold thousands of systems this way. See for yourself.

http://sawgrassink.indigofiles.com/...ijet/SJIQ-WF30_QSG_BIS-QC_R-1W_3Mar10-jcr.pdf

See the "Important" paragraph in the 1st page.


* "IMPORTANT: Before you begin ...​* Before you install the SubliJet IQ Quick Connect Bulk Ink System, you should setup the Epson printer with the Epson supplied
inks and driver. This will allow you to conduct a nozzle check to ensure the printer is working properly. Record the alphanumeric
value from the nozzle check (located on the far right side of the page). This is your Firmware Number which will be
needed during the PowerDriver IQ Registration. Once completed, you can begin the bulk ink system installation process.​*NOTE: *_Please remove the Epson cartridges before proceeding to step 1."
_


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## tammygraphics

I THINK I want to go with a printer and cobra ink for sublimation type printing. I've been reading posts for a few hours and I'm more confused ... LOL.

On the Cobra site they now have sublimation inks listed and no high temp. They are saying in one place that the sublimation is for cotton t-shirts and hard substrates? I thought for sublimation ink you used polyesters and coated substrates? Then there's the dye and pigment inks. Please help!

I thought when I considered this printer thing a while back- that the JPSS and using pigment ink required that you cut around the image to make it work and sublimation ink would blend into the fabric (dye it) and no trimming required. So- with the sublimation ink does it take only the printed portion or do you see the "outline" of the paper? I really want to avoid getting something I have to put into my cutter after and cut around.

I want to use this on a variety of things- t-shirts, koozies, hard substrates (tiles, glass). I see they also sell sticker material to use the sublimation on? 

I am sorry to ask so many questions but I think I'm confusing myself the more I read. Can someone direct me to some good links on the use of the cobra inks and the different kinds... 

I would like to make an investment in a new heat press and printer - maybe another cutter (smaller)... I think I've decided on the 1430 but I just can't figure out the ink part.

Tammy


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## mgparrish

tammygraphics said:


> I THINK I want to go with a printer and cobra ink for sublimation type printing. I've been reading posts for a few hours and I'm more confused ... LOL.
> 
> On the Cobra site they now have sublimation inks listed and no high temp.
> 
> *On the sublimation bottled ink page they state "high temp" in parenthesis next to 'Sublimation Inks". *
> 
> *So one in the same.*
> 
> 
> They are saying in one place that the sublimation is for cotton t-shirts and hard substrates? I thought for sublimation ink you used polyesters and coated substrates? Then there's the dye and pigment inks. Please help!
> 
> *It states "**Sublimation ink is designed for
> general printing as well as cotton blend T-shirt transfers". *
> 
> *My read is that cotton blends means mixed cotton/poly, for example 50/50 tshirts.*
> 
> *But while it is possible to sublimate those tshirts the sub dye only works on the poly fibers, so you get a "vintage" look on the finished product, especially after the first wash. A "cotton blend" or 15% cotton and 85% poly would be a better "blend" for sublimation.*
> 
> *Technically it is possible to use sublimation ink for general printing but I would ask why? Regular pigment or dye ink is cheaper, but yes you could use sub ink to print web pages if one is so motivated.*
> 
> *I think that statement could use some modification for sure, but technically it is true. Being practical is a separate issue*.
> 
> I thought when I considered this printer thing a while back- that the JPSS and using pigment ink required that you cut around the image to make it work and sublimation ink would blend into the fabric (dye it) and no trimming required. So- with the sublimation ink does it take only the printed portion or do you see the "outline" of the paper? I really want to avoid getting something I have to put into my cutter after and cut around.
> 
> *Actually JPSS and pigment inks on a 50/50 white t-shirt I don't trim as the "window" from the transfer paper is really not discernible. If pressed correctly the window only shows initially before the first wash and really only if you are looking for it. After the first wash the window isn't really seen.*
> 
> *Light color t-shirts will show the window outline and on 100% cotton there is a slight color difference and you can see the transition from the placed transfer in the unprinted area of the transfer and the t-shirt.*
> 
> *Having said that ... sublimation onto poly there is no transfer polymer sheet as with JPSS. Only the sublimation dye transfer is released and no clear polymer from the transfer paper. That is one of the biggest benefits of sublimating onto white or light color poly. No visible window from a released polymer (sticker) and no feeling (hand) in the printed area.*
> 
> *It is possible that if you transfer poly with sublimation inks that you can see a creased "box" where the paper leaves an crease from the pressure of pressing. But using pads and various techniques you can eliminate that different box or window left from press marks.*
> 
> I want to use this on a variety of things- t-shirts, koozies, hard substrates (tiles, glass). I see they also sell sticker material to use the sublimation on?
> 
> *Yup, all true.*
> 
> I am sorry to ask so many questions but I think I'm confusing myself the more I read. Can someone direct me to some good links on the use of the cobra inks and the different kinds...
> 
> *Inks are universal based on ink type and number of colors in the printer. For example within all 4 color printers "M" magenta sublimation inks in bulk are the same across all other 4 color models. CIS and refill carts become more model specific though.*
> 
> *Choose your printer first. Go to the profile page and you can see which printers are covered and having "high-temp" (sublimation) profiles. You should base your printer selection on how big your items are so page size should be considered. *
> 
> *Another consideration is your budget, do you want a printer with more features (such as a scanner) or do you need a higher up printer geared toward photography and fine art.*
> 
> 
> I would like to make an investment in a new heat press and printer - maybe another cutter (smaller)... I think I've decided on the 1430 but I just can't figure out the ink part.
> 
> Tammy


See the markups I made above.


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## tammygraphics

Mike-
I really appreciate your feedback and the time you took to respond! This helped a TON! I was really confusing myself with the sublimation saying "cotton". I love the sublimation look and we do a lot of Poly blend things (including a TON of dry-fit like shirts). 

Thank you!! 

Tammy


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## tammygraphics

So the sublimation ink would be the same as what you could use for subli-jet inks...?

I do have a laser that I tried to use for the laser paper and struggled. Then found out it might not be right for those transfers.
I use it for every day printing. Works fine so I wouldn't need this printer for every day printing as well. I just copied in what it said on the description of the ink.


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## mgparrish

tammygraphics said:


> So the sublimation ink would be the same as what you could use for subli-jet inks...?
> 
> I do have a laser that I tried to use for the laser paper and struggled. Then found out it might not be right for those transfers.
> I use it for every day printing. Works fine so I wouldn't need this printer for every day printing as well. I just copied in what it said on the description of the ink.


 It would be similar. But the profiles used for the various sublimation inks are specific to the ink and the printer model.


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## tammygraphics

Called Cobra today. Their sub ink is gone. The person I spoke to actually said he knew nothing about this ink they don't carry it. It was on their website last night! 

Anyway- back to the drawing board and trying to find out what ink to buy. I really don't want to pay Sawgrass pricing...


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## mgparrish

tammygraphics said:


> Called Cobra today. Their sub ink is gone. The person I spoke to actually said he knew nothing about this ink they don't carry it. It was on their website last night!
> 
> Anyway- back to the drawing board and trying to find out what ink to buy. I really don't want to pay Sawgrass pricing...


 Check your inbox ...


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## SouthernGirl

I am really confused about the message from TammyGraphics above. I am also interested in less expensive sublimation ink. I haven't talked to anyone at Cobra inks; but, on their site they have a tab called "Sublimation Products" which has a listing. "Works in all Epson 4 color printers
Cobra *Sublimation Ink* 5 sizes to choose from". Why would the rep. say he knew nothing about sublimation ink and they didn't carry it? Is it safe to order this ink? Cobra is a reputable vendor aren't they? I see them mentioned a lot.


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## mgparrish

SouthernGirl said:


> I am really confused about the message from TammyGraphics above. I am also interested in less expensive sublimation ink. I haven't talked to anyone at Cobra inks; but, on their site they have a tab called "Sublimation Products" which has a listing. "Works in all Epson 4 color printers
> Cobra *Sublimation Ink* 5 sizes to choose from". Why would the rep. say he knew nothing about sublimation ink and they didn't carry it? Is it safe to order this ink? Cobra is a reputable vendor aren't they? I see them mentioned a lot.


 The Sawgrass patent expired Sept. 1. Cobra now has all their sublimation inks listed on their website.


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## SouthernGirl

Thank you. I was thinking it must be something like that. When I went to the home page it said something about all new updates. I was thinking of getting the Epson 7110 with the CIS already installed for $369.95. Is this a good deal in your opinion?


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## mgparrish

SouthernGirl said:


> Thank you. I was thinking it must be something like that. When I went to the home page it said something about all new updates. I was thinking of getting the Epson 7110 with the CIS already installed for $369.95. Is this a good deal in your opinion?


 I just got a 7110 but still have Epson inks in it. So far a very nice printer.


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## SouthernGirl

Thanks Mike! I think I'll go for it. I have The Ricoh SG3110 already; but, I can get a wide format printer plus CIS with ink for about the same as more ink for the Ricoh. Which I love btw, but, dang the ink is expensive. Keeping my fingers crossed I'm "special" and don't have clogging problems.  They did say something about a new kind of tube that is supposed to help with that problem.


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