# Grainy/tiny pink dots all over (aluminum inserts)



## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Hi all! I'm new to sublimation and hoping from some help. I'm sublimating on aluminum inserts for phone cases, and while darker prints come out looking beautiful/creamy, any prints I do involving lighter colors are super grainy and have dots all over. The dots look mostly gray in the photos, but in person they actually appear more pink. I think the dots are there no matter what, but with darker prints they just blend in and aren't noticeable.

Setup/notes:

I'm using the new Epson SureColor F170 Sublimation Printer (w/ Epson sublimation inks)
I'm printing from Photoshop, and have color-handling set to Photoshop (have also tried allowing the printer to manage color and have the same issue, but with worse overall color matching)
I'm using the printer profile that came with the printer (Epson FC-F100 series General Purpose Rigid - the only other option I have is the same but textile, instead of rigid)
Print quality options are "normal" and "fine" and I'm using "fine"
I'm using high quality images - I print at 300 dpi, but have also tried 600 dpi with the same issue
I've tried S-RACE Vivid 120 and TexPrint XPHR sublimation paper - same issue
Have tried pressing at different temps/times/pressure - same issue
I think it's definitely in the print. Before sublimating, if you look SUPER closely, you can almost see it, and then after sublimating it's really obvious.
I've contacted Epson and am waiting to hear back. 
Is this something you all have seen before? Is it normal and somewhat expected with lighter colors, or is something definitely wrong with my printer/settings? Would a Sawgrass printer/other printer resolve this issue? Any suggestions? I'm so frustrated and have wasted so many blanks trying different things.

I appreciate your time and any insight you might have! 

I inserted thumbnails but if you click to enlarge you will clearly see the issue.


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

Hey, welcome to sublimation printing. This forum I'm sure will help you. I like the family portrait. My Sister in Law gave us one of those for Christmas a couple years back. I believe it's her Sister or Sister in Law that makes them =). 

As for the grain, do you see the issues on the paper itself? It almost looks like the issues you're having are coming from the coating and not the printer. What resolution are you printing at? I haven't dealt with the smaller desktop F170 yet. I'm happy to take a look at your printer settings and see if there is anything that jumps out.

Just shoot me a message if you'd like to do that. I would also highly recommend a custom profile made for your materials. Colors will turn out better than the generic profile Epson gives everyone else.


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

One more thought. Have you gone through all of the alignments? That will also make a big difference in overall quality. Most machines from the factory are not aligned to give the best possible output.


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

danielschelin said:


> Hey, welcome to sublimation printing. This forum I'm sure will help you. I like the family portrait. My Sister in Law gave us one of those for Christmas a couple years back. I believe it's her Sister or Sister in Law that makes them =).
> 
> As for the grain, do you see the issues on the paper itself? It almost looks like the issues you're having are coming from the coating and not the printer. What resolution are you printing at? I haven't dealt with the smaller desktop F170 yet. I'm happy to take a look at your printer settings and see if there is anything that jumps out.
> 
> Just shoot me a message if you'd like to do that. I would also highly recommend a custom profile made for your materials. Colors will turn out better than the generic profile Epson gives everyone else.


Thanks for the welcome! Yes, if I look close enough, I think I can see it in the print itself. It's kind of hard to tell, as it first prints pretty faded and then after sublimating it's really obvious. I have printed at 300 dpi and 600 dpi with the same result. I have also tried several different images. 

How does one go about getting a custom profile? Here are my printer settings, FWIW:


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

danielschelin said:


> One more thought. Have you gone through all of the alignments? That will also make a big difference in overall quality. Most machines from the factory are not aligned to give the best possible output.


When I first set up the printer it went through a bunch of checks and everything looked good. I've since cleaned the print heads, as someone else suggested I do that. I can try printing an alignment test again to see what it looks like.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

I don't use Epson's but that looks like a dither pattern to me. Are there any dithering settings in your printer driver that you can disable or change?

I've just checked online and tge F170 is a 4-colour printer and dithering can be a problem with only 4 colours on large white or light areas.

Finally, check in Photoshop that your white background is pure white all over, ie. rgb(255, 255, 255).


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

webtrekker said:


> I don't use Epson's but that looks like a dither pattern to me. Are there any dithering settings in your printer driver that you can disable or change?
> 
> I've just checked online and tge F170 is a 4-colour printer and dithering can be a problem with only 4 colours on large white or light areas.
> 
> Finally, check in Photoshop that your white background is pure white all over, ie. rgb(255, 255, 255).


I've wondered if that's what it is too - dithering. I don't see any dithering settings available, unfortunately. If the background is truly white, it won't print there and it's clean, but for anything else with lighter colors this is what happens.

Other desktop sublimation printers are just 4 colors also - but I wonder if they still at least print better than this? Does anyone here have a Sawgrass desktop printer? Does it do the same thing?

Again, I appreciate everyone's time. This is driving me nuts and any advice helps. If this is normal then I can try to deal with it - but if it's not, I want to ditch this printer and try another.

Thanks!


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

Change your printer settings as follows:


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Thank you for trying to help! I have a Mac and don't seem to have those same options available, but they're kind of similar. I have the print quality set to "fine" (only other option is "normal"). I do have the quality set to high, and I am using the rigid profile (Epson FC-F100 series General Purpose Rigid and Textile are the only options available). I have switched between the "automatic" and "advanced" modes but get the same results. I don't seem to have a "color correction" option at all.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

are you sending rgb and not cmyk?

do you have a windows/linux laptop you can try?

try flattening the image and save as transparent png and print from any other program


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

into the T said:


> are you sending rgb and not cmyk?
> 
> do you have a windows/linux laptop you can try?
> 
> try flattening the image and save as transparent png and print from any other program


Yes, definitely rgb. My daughter does have a windows PC, I could try that. The images are already flattened, and I've tried png, eps, etc. I have not tried printing from another program though, so I can give that a try.

Edited to add:
Just tried printing a flattened png from Preview and Illustrator and although the colors were off, the dithering issue remains. Will try from my daughter's PC later.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

Just had a better look at your pics and this is most certainly caused by dithering of the colours.


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

webtrekker said:


> Just had a better look at your pics and this is most certainly caused by dithering of the colours.


But this isn't normal, right? Does this new Epson desktop sublimation printer just suck when it comes to lighter colors/print quality? Would a Sawgrass SG500 or something else perform better, at the very least? I realize with only 4 colors there will probably be some dithering, but this seems excessive.

It can be hard to tell online, but I've tried zooming in on other peoples' sublimated phone cases and I don't think I'm seeing this issue. My daughter has also ordered a phone case from someone that does this in the past and the print quality doesn't look like this -- and that one I can see in person because we still have the phone case. 

Desktop sublimation printer options are limited, but I know people have also converted photo printers as well. I want to return this and get something else, I just don't know what to get.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

hangrygirl said:


> But this isn't normal, right? Does this new Epson desktop sublimation printer just suck when it comes to lighter colors/print quality? Would a Sawgrass SG500 or something else perform better, at the very least? I realize with only 4 colors there will probably be some dithering, but this seems excessive.
> 
> It can be hard to tell online, but I've tried zooming in on other peoples' sublimated phone cases and I don't think I'm seeing this issue. My daughter has also ordered a phone case from someone that does this in the past and the print quality doesn't look like this -- and that one I can see in person because we still have the phone case.
> 
> Desktop sublimation printer options are limited, but I know people have also converted photo printers as well. I want to return this and get something else, I just don't know what to get.


My Ricoh SG3110DN's are nowhere near as bad as this and they are just 4-colours. I've printed a lot of aluminium sheet for various projects nd they've always been decent quality.

I know you say you print at 300dpi, so do I, but are the actual images you are importing into Photoshop of good enough resolution? It's no good importing a 72dpi image from the web and printing it at 300dpi and expecting good quality prints, if you get what I mean.


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

webtrekker said:


> My Ricoh SG3110DN's are nowhere near as bad as this and they are just 4-colours. I've printed a lot of aluminium sheet for various projects nd they've always been decent quality.
> 
> I know you say you print at 300dpi, so do I, but are the actual images you are importing into Photoshop of good enough resolution? It's no good importing a 72dpi image from the web and printing it at 300dpi and expecting good quality prints, if you get what I mean.


Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I'm not using anything that's just pulled from the web or as low as 72 dpi. I've purchased images/graphics/illustrations from Envato, iStock, and designers on Etsy and It's happening with all of them - SVG, PNG, EPS all hi-res, all huge files. I'm pretty familiar with that side of things (as I do some graphic design work as a part of my job). I'm new to sublimation, but not the rest of it. I think I just made a mistake going the cheaper route with Epson's first desktop sublimation printer.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

Hmm...

Sotty I can't be of more help. I was going to offer to print one of your files on my Ricoh, but as you are already proficient in graphic design I doubt whether it's the image at fault.

Of course, every sublimation printer has to use dithering to some degree. You can't print an image with thousands or millions of colours with a 4-colour printer without dithering. I think it all boils down to the dithering algorithms used by your particular printer. Maybe you would have more success with a different, more commonly used printer.


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

webtrekker said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Sotty I can't be of more help. I was going to offer to print one of your files on my Ricoh, but as you are already proficient in graphic design I doubt whether it's the image at fault.
> 
> Of course, every sublimation printer has to use dithering to some degree. You can't print an image with thousands or millions of colours with a 4-colour printer without dithering. I think it all boils down to the dithering algorithms used by your particular printer. Maybe you would have more success with a different, more commonly used printer.


Yeah, I'm going to return this one. I ordered the Sawgrass Virtuoso SG500 and hope I'll have better luck with that. Thanks!


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## LanisCases (Feb 20, 2021)

I’ve had the same issue but it wasn’t that bad and it only happened with the color white if you are saturating your photos that’s what seems to cause the problem hope this helps


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

LanisCases said:


> I’ve had the same issue but it wasn’t that bad and it only happened with the color white if you are saturating your photos that’s what seems to cause the problem hope this helps


Thanks so much for weighing in! I'm not saturating the photos...it must just be this printer. It's brand new on the market (the price was attractive, but I guess you get what you pay for). Since no one else seems to have this issue, at least not to this extreme, I'm going to return it and go with something more popular. Anything has got to be better than this.


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## Happy_10 (Feb 8, 2021)

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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

hangrygirl said:


> Hi all! I'm new to sublimation and hoping from some help. I'm sublimating on aluminum inserts for phone cases, and while darker prints come out looking beautiful/creamy, any prints I do involving lighter colors are super grainy and have dots all over. The dots look mostly gray in the photos, but in person they actually appear more pink. I think the dots are there no matter what, but with darker prints they just blend in and aren't noticeable.
> 
> Setup/notes:
> 
> ...





hangrygirl said:


> Yeah, I'm going to return this one. I ordered the Sawgrass Virtuoso SG500 and hope I'll have better luck with that. Thanks!


Hey! I come across this thread because I am new to sublimation and having the exact same issues as you, but not as noticeable.

I am just wondering did you ever get to the bottom of it and improve your print results?


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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

i am using an Epson eco tank ET-2711, printing at 300 dpi on a Mac


I would really appreciate any help please


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

IronTyson90 said:


> Hey! I come across this thread because I am new to sublimation and having the exact same issues as you, but not as noticeable.
> 
> I am just wondering did you ever get to the bottom of it and improve your print results?


For me the issue was the printer. It wasn't fixable. Epson was no help and neither was the place I ordered the printer from. I ended up getting the Sawgrass SG500 and problem solved!


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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

hangrygirl said:


> For me the issue was the printer. It wasn't fixable. Epson was no help and neither was the place I ordered the printer from. I ended up getting the Sawgrass SG500 and problem solved!


Really! So are you images crystal clear now using the new printer? Did you need any icc profiles?

The company I purchased my printer off have been contacting me to change various settings, I’ve installed icc profiles they set up for the ink & paper and changed heat and pressure, done nozzle checks and alignments but still the same result!


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

IronTyson90 said:


> Really! So are you images crystal clear now using the new printer? Did you need any icc profiles?
> 
> The company I purchased my printer off have been contacting me to change various settings, I’ve installed icc profiles they set up for the ink & paper and changed heat and pressure, done nozzle checks and alignments but still the same result!


Same, they had me trying all kinds of things and I felt like I was just wasting paper and ink with the same terrible results. The Epson I bought was cheap and just had a terrible dithering pattern that you can't fix. I'm sure it's fine for many uses, but for phone cases it was terrible unless the image was darker/busier. Anything light or with solid colored areas came out terrible.


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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

hangrygirl said:


> Same, they had me trying all kinds of things and I felt like I was just wasting paper and ink with the same terrible results. The Epson I bought was cheap and just had a terrible dithering pattern that you can't fix. I'm sure it's fine for many uses, but for phone cases it was terrible unless the image was darker/busier. Anything light or with solid colored areas came out terrible.


Ahh it’s driving me mad! I have spent 2 weeks trying to get it right and wasted about 20 phone case inserts.

Where you able to return your printer?

I am definitely going to look into purchasing the one you have now


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

IronTyson90 said:


> Ahh it’s driving me mad! I have spent 2 weeks trying to get it right and wasted about 20 phone case inserts.
> 
> Where you able to return your printer?
> 
> I am definitely going to look into purchasing the one you have now


I feel your pain. I wasted so many inserts. The lovely company I purchased mine from stopped responding when they couldn't help me and continued to ignore me when I asked what the return policy was. I was so stressed at the time I didn't pursue it and just ended up keeping it as a backup.


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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

hangrygirl said:


> I feel your pain. I wasted so many inserts. The lovely company I purchased mine from stopped responding when they couldn't help me and continued to ignore me when I asked what the return policy was. I was so stressed at the time I didn't pursue it and just ended up keeping it as a backup.


Ahh I feel like you understand how I’m feeling, honestly reading your previous posts just sounds exactly what’s happening to me now.

So when you purchased the Sawgrass did you need to do anything different settings wise or did you plug in and get printing perfect straight away?


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

IronTyson90 said:


> Ahh I feel like you understand how I’m feeling, honestly reading your previous posts just sounds exactly what’s happening to me now.
> 
> So when you purchased the Sawgrass did you need to do anything different settings wise or did you plug in and get printing perfect straight away?


I didn't need to do anything, it just printed way better right off the bat. I also love that you can tell the Sawgrass Print Manager what you're printing on (mug, metal, tumbler, etc.) and what paper you're using and it will adjust for that. I've had nothing but great results with it. The only annoying thing is that from time to time the print manager freezes up and I have to sign out and sign back in or reestablish the connection with my printer -- but IMO it's worth it.


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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

hangrygirl said:


> I didn't need to do anything, it just printed way better right off the bat. I also love that you can tell the Sawgrass Print Manager what you're printing on (mug, metal, tumbler, etc.) and what paper you're using and it will adjust for that. I've had nothing but great results with it. The only annoying thing is that from time to time the print manager freezes up and I have to sign out and sign back in or reestablish the connection with my printer -- but IMO it's worth it.


Thank you for taking the time to explain I am going to order one this weekend and hopefully see some improvements.

Do you have any photos at all from phone case inserts you have done on it?


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## hangrygirl (Feb 18, 2021)

IronTyson90 said:


> Thank you for taking the time to explain I am going to order one this weekend and hopefully see some improvements.
> 
> Do you have any photos at all from phone case inserts you have done on it?


No problem! I have some pics but none are close up enough to really tell. I took closeups when I was having the issue to be able to show others, but once things were working I was taking pics from a normal distance.

The only comparison I have of a before and after on the same design is this (and it's just me trying to zoom in on one of the photos to try to show the difference). Hope this helps!

BEFORE:









AFTER:


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## IronTyson90 (Apr 30, 2021)

hangrygirl said:


> No problem! I have some pics but none are close up enough to really tell. I took closeups when I was having the issue to be able to show others, but once things were working I was taking pics from a normal distance.
> 
> The only comparison I have of a before and after on the same design is this (and it's just me trying to zoom in on one of the photos to try to show the difference). Hope this helps!
> 
> ...


Yes I can definitely notice the difference it looks great! There is definitely issues between Mac and Epson I’ve read quite a bit of info on it. My last resort is to buy a cable (as my printer is wireless) and try a wired connection as I’ve ready when wireless Mac uses AirPrint drivers!

If that doesn’t work it’s time to bite the bullet and get a new printer


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## msvivi20 (11 mo ago)

Hello hangrygirl,

I just read your thread about your grainy result on phone cases and from what I've read it seems the 4-colors EPSON printer is the culprit. I am facing the same exact problem now (EPSON SC-FC130, Mac OS, Photoshop, Epson original ink).

Thanks for this!


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

Dithering is a known issue with sublimation printers and the fewer inks used the greater the problem.


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