# Conde Reveal S Question



## RobHasty

Hello, I have a question for the folks at Conde with regard to the new paper coming out soon for sublimation onto cotton shirts.

With the R&D now complete, I was wondering if this process works better on one brand of t-shirts or another.

Thanks for the info!

Rob Hasty


----------



## Conde_David

That is an age old question for all transfer paper and maybe for DTG. I do not have an answer other than wash the first shirt. If I do have a wash ability call, it is usually Gildan. But is that because Gildan is very popular? Some years ago I contacted an R&D person at Gildan and ask why I had issues with waging and he said that they used thread thickening agents that could interfere with wash ability. So my advice regardless of the decorating method is to test and verify. And of course some issues are improper transfer technique like not enough pressure. For the Reveal paper we noted excellent wash ability. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## coodiny

When can we expect the rollout

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using T-Shirt Forums


----------



## Conde_David

Mid March


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AbbyinID

I'm trying to wait patiently for this paper! I'm excited to try it out.

I'm waiting to try this out or purchase ink and equipment for JPSS papers. Not a lot of shirt options for 100% poly.


----------



## amdivoff

I had a chance to see a Reveal pressed at the NBM Dallas show and it was pretty wicked.
I just checked the Conde site and it's not up on there, there's a release delay?
Would love to check it out.


----------



## Logomotive

Conde_David said:


> Mid March
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


David, any update on a release date?


----------



## SandiMN

When is the release date for Reveal S ?


----------



## Conde_David

Very close. Sorry we missed out end of March goal. We will send out an email as soon as product is in stock. New videos will go up next week. Waiting on paper to be cut. And then we will package.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SouthMSbowtique

Here's a question- are we going to have to change printers/inks to use these new papers?


----------



## Sacman

David can answer better but the demo video on their YouTube page says that you use sub inks. I believe the concept is that there is polyester emulsion on the film. When you press it, the emulsion melts into the shirt and the ink sublimates to that emulsion as it would any poly surface.


----------



## Conde_David

Yes that is correct. It is smart enough to selectively release from the film backing. As an update, we are in the process of approving the product run. I am sorry that this has taken longer than expected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SouthMSbowtique

I was going to ask Joni about them today when I was placing orders, but totally forgot.

Plus i'm sure she has been asked 100s of times lol


----------



## eagleact

You are about to make a ton of money if this works well and is cost effective.

Will you have wide format film or only sheets? 
What is the cost?
Only white and lights I think I heard you mention in the YouTube video. Correct?
You say it has some hand. How does it compare to screen print and print-n-cut materials?

Nice work....this looks close to the holy grail...add a white "backer" so it works on darks and you may have the complete answer.


----------



## SilverfishTees

eagleact said:


> You are about to make a ton of money if this works well and is cost effective.
> 
> Will you have wide format film or only sheets?
> What is the cost?
> Only white and lights I think I heard you mention in the YouTube video. Correct?
> You say it has some hand. How does it compare to screen print and print-n-cut materials?
> 
> Nice work....this looks close to the holy grail...add a white "backer" so it works on darks and you may have the complete answer.


HEAR HEAR! My Gosh! This is THE answer! Finally! Holy Grail is right. Can't wait to see this if this is the real deal.........

Agreed, it would be ESSENTIAL for them to make one available for dark shirts as well with a white backing....keeping my fingers crossed for that.....


----------



## SilverfishTees

Really excited bout this new product! How do I get on an email list to be notified when it's available?


----------



## A1WHITES

Just got off the phone with Conde still not in . But I did get one answer we will have 11x17 size. The big thing for me is that I can do the larger size plus quit using my laser.


----------



## DesignsbyDee

The worst release of a product EVER! Get your ducks in a row before announcing you are going to release a product the executives at CONDE should be ashamed of themselves!


----------



## Conde_David

Well, we have already released it to some early clients. We opted for a soft launch to get feedback. Mass launch looks like next week. Are you a Conde client?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DesignsbyDee

I am a client/customer and have called in at least three times a week for the past month to be told they have no idea when it is coming out or they are given any information. When I mention the information I have found on the web its like I am speaking greek and they don't understand anything. The best I can get is I will call you when it is available. I requested that it just be shipped to me as I would rather buy it than to be told it is sold out and I doubt that will even happen.


----------



## DesignsbyDee

To now hear that it has been released to clients early and I have been calling so much and wasn't offered an early release makes me that much more disappointed!


----------



## Conde_David

Your Conde rep will have the information tomorrow. Shipments should start sometime next week. Who is your Conde rep?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DesignsbyDee

Kerri C is my rep. now my old rep left the company. All I can say now is I will believe it when I see it. You all have given about three different date to then announce an issue with finalizing detail with manuf.,cutting, etc.


----------



## Conde_David

I opted for a soft launch to get feedback that has helped with the launch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DesignsbyDee

That should have been communicated instead of telling people Mid-March, Last week in March. First week in April... people are waiting and then when the date comes they call to be disappointed as you know this is a product many small business owners will find very useful and those who know about it are excited to test it.

The launch your company has put out announcing dates that are nothing but empty promises is bad business. Then you opt for a soft launch at the end of it all. SMH.

We will see what next week will bring.


----------



## Conde_David

I agree! You are right! I will not post dates in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DirtyVogue

Thank you David for bringing us what sounds like a fantastic product. I'm excited as well. I know things happen so I'm not here to beat Conde up over launch dates. I rather have a late launch of a game changing product than no product at all!! I will say though, I was really hoping for a 13x19 size I could use with my Ricoh like the Textprint HR? Hopefully I can get with Sandi and possibly snag a Reveal -S before they're gone!! Really
looking forward it!!!


----------



## Conde_David

Just 8.5"X11" and 11"x17" next week. Pushing for 13"x19" as soon as we can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DirtyVogue

Thank you sir. I'm sure within the next year we'll see bigger sizes. I'll be waiting patiently! Best of luck on what I suspect is going to be a crazy successful launch!!!!


----------



## Conde_David

Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DesignsbyDee

DirtyVogue said:


> Thank you David for bringing us what sounds like a fantastic product. I'm excited as well. I know things happen so I'm not here to beat Conde up over launch dates. I rather have a late launch of a game changing product than no product at all!! I will say though, I was really hoping for a 13x19 size I could use with my Ricoh like the Textprint HR? Hopefully I can get with Sandi and possibly snag a Reveal -S before they're gone!! Really
> looking forward it!!!


I believe the thanks goes to Vivid Chemical the company that developed the product which is being sold through Conde.


----------



## Conde_David

Yes. You will see lots from this great group of folks. Will do a webinar to introduce you to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## calhtech

Conde_David said:


> Yes. You will see lots from this great group of folks. Will do a webinar to introduce you to them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have heard there are some graphic concerns about certain types of artwork. Can you elaborate on this. I realize its still limited to white or lite fabrics, I realize it still has a hand, but I thought I read about some limitations. Thanks for the info.


----------



## bpfohler

DesignsbyDee said:


> The worst release of a product EVER! Get your ducks in a row before announcing you are going to release a product the executives at CONDE should be ashamed of themselves!


Someone needs a Snickers!


----------



## coodiny

2 should do


----------



## amdivoff

I'd would rather wait and get a finished product than rush to shelf with issues. Its not a perfect world. I'll have to make due with the shirt that David pressed for me in Dallas. I hold it softly and pet it ever so slightly...  

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sacman

I for one am excited for the launch even if it is in two weeks or next month. I also don't really care who is making the product although I'm that info was shared in some off handed attempt to make Conde look bad. Believe it or not Conde doesn't actually make the vast majority of what they sell. That's their business model. I'm also not going to be shocked when I order and it is already back-ordered. These things happen.

This is the first time I have ever wished for a dislike option on posts. 6 times to be exact just in this thread. Hazarding a guess, probably a regular member that created a new account just to spout off and be anonymous so that Conde doesn't tell him/her to get bent.

Snickers indeed!


----------



## Conde_David

Pricing came out today. I think the ordering page will be up tomorrow or Friday. Tomorrow all sales reps will be trained by getting each of them to print and transfer their favorite graphics. Will post photos on Facebook! I think shipping will be Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DirtyVogue

So I received my email today confirming that I would not be credited for the 43 damaged Vapor fashion fit tees I sent back. Mind you, outside of the 30 day invoice limit which was something I was aware of but that's ok. So, I thought, hmmm, 43 tees total roughly $185 right Mr. Gross? Money that came out of my wallet. Not to mention the $25 it cost to ship. So I looked up how much I've spent with Conde. And it was approximately $15,000 if not more. Not to mention the people that I have referred to you. $15,000 dollars compared to $185 dollars in damaged tees that "CONDE" shipped me makes this an absolute disgrace. I was looking forward to the Reveal-S??? Forget about it. You've lost a loyal customer.

My apologies everyone. I know this isn't the correct forum for this but I really needed to speak my mind So thank you. I've spoken highly about this company for years so to get screwed over like this speaks volumes.


----------



## uglovdkg

My Rep called me 2 days ago to say she's sending me a sample


----------



## amdivoff

Must have a nice rep, I sent an email on 22nd of last month to my "rep" no response...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DirtyVogue

I asked today while placing an order and was told next week, that they weren't in yet...hmmmm


----------



## SouthMSbowtique

I spoke to someone this AM- $25 for 10 sheets, $50 for 25 sheets. 100 sheets was something like $140. Shipping early next week. that was for 8.5x11


----------



## DirtyVogue

Thanks for the info SouthMSbowtique


----------



## jestjoking69

Pricing ouch! $339 for a hundred sheets?


----------



## adamlando

The per sheet price isnt very good but i wouldn't expect the pricing to be great on the first release of this considering theres nothing like it.

However, I would be really curious in pricing on Rolls. Is that info available yet not sure where to look for it.


----------



## battman2036

Conde_David said:


> Pricing came out today. I think the ordering page will be up tomorrow or Friday. Tomorrow all sales reps will be trained by getting each of them to print and transfer their favorite graphics. Will post photos on Facebook! I think shipping will be Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you the sole vendor of this product? I ask because another seller is listing the same thing in an 11x17 sheet size


----------



## Conde_David

Yes. Maybe a competing product?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## battman2036

Conde_David said:


> Yes. Maybe a competing product?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll send you a PM.


----------



## adamlando

Conde_David said:


> Yes. Maybe a competing product?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hey David I actually emailed you as well. would like to know more


----------



## hobbymachine

I was at the DAX show in Chicago and LRI is offering something similar for half the cost? I got a sample sheet but haven't tried it yet.


----------



## Conde_David

Product is shipping. Contact a Conde account manager. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jestjoking69

battman2036 said:


> Conde_David said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pricing came out today. I think the ordering page will be up tomorrow or Friday. Tomorrow all sales reps will be trained by getting each of them to print and transfer their favorite graphics. Will post photos on Facebook! I think shipping will be Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Are you the sole vendor of this product? I ask because another seller is listing the same thing in an 11x17 sheet size
Click to expand...

It is listed as "Reveal S 11x17" @ $4.00 a sheet. I just visited the site its out of stock.


----------



## amdivoff

jestjoking69 said:


> It is listed as "Reveal S 11x17" @ $4.00 a sheet. I just visited the site its out of stock.




I just went online and the 25 and 100 count 11x17 is showing as in stock.

http://www.conde.com/search.php?search=Reveal&criteria=products


----------



## jestjoking69

I was referring to the other vendor that was talked about a few posts back. Same name on the product and listed as for printing to dark fabric not the conde site.


----------



## primodvdprices

Will this work on black shirts?


----------



## PreppyChicKids

Just ordered my paper today. Cant wait to try this and kick my poly supplier to the curb


----------



## Conde_David

No, will not work for dark shirts.
Needs to be white or light colors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

Please contact me with help trouble shooting and feedback. Remember to use the presets for Ricoh & Virtuoso printers. Also put a white piece of paper in the bottom of your paper tray. I have seen a number of cases where the printer mis feeds because it can't see the trailing edge of the film.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jestjoking69

I signed up to be a partner a week ago I still haven't heard back and my login still doesn't function. I would love to try the sample before I purchase this.


----------



## PreppyChicKids

Got my paper yesterday, luckily I had Conde tech support log in to my PC and set the printer up. When I printed though the light colors held perfect on to the shirt but the real dark colors most of the ink stayed on the film and it made the image look patchy


----------



## Conde_David

Partnernet is for technical resources. To get sample just order using the shopping cart. Once you become a Conde client your partnernet access will be turned on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

For those testing Reveal here are top issues:

1. Your press is running hotter than the display indicates. It will begin to melt reveal and leave a polymer edge on shirt and on platen. Easy to wipe from the platen.

2. Lint roll shirt and do a quick pre press. Actually important.

3. Use our reveal presets. Not available for Mac yet. Call and we will manually create on Ricoh printers.

Epson dyesub: doing good.

Put piece of white paper in bottom of tray with Reveal sheets on top. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Techamongous

I have an Epson 1430. Cobra Inks.

I tried my first print and hardly any of the design transferred to the shirt at all. I asked Larry to pass off an email to tech support for the settings when I placed my order Monday but he never replied. I also asked for a sample sheet or two with my order of 25 11x17 so I didnt waste $2.50 testing, but I only got the 25 sheets. 

So, Im down one sheet of $2.50 paper and have no settings to try.


----------



## Conde_David

The presets are at www.conde.com/reveal
Print your design into about 8 up. Cut and transfer one at a time to test. But you must use the preset if you have a Ricoh or virtuoso.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pintail Imaging

Been testing with less than stellar results. At 375 degrees a 100% Hanes shirt scortches. I also get a glue line all the way around the film border. The film leaves a glue mark on the upper platen of my press.

Temperature of the press is correct. Pressure is high. Shirt was pre-pressed to remove moisture.


----------



## Conde_David

That is a strong sign your pressing is running hotter than the display indicates. I have never scorched cotton at that time/temp. Do you have a temperature probe? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pintail Imaging

OK... I found out how to make this paper work for me:

1) I turned my press down to 360 degrees. When I did this the scorching went away and I no longer have any lines where the film edges were.

2) After pressing, rub the heck out of the film to force the ink onto the shirt before peeling the film. I got 100% dye transfer.

Here is a sample on a 100% cotton shirt. The results are quite good!


----------



## Conde_David

Excellent! Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PreppyChicKids

Pintail Imaging said:


> OK... I found out how to make this paper work for me:
> 
> 1) I turned my press down to 360 degrees. When I did this the scorching went away and I no longer have any lines where the film edges were.
> 
> 2) After pressing, rub the heck out of the film to force the ink onto the shirt before peeling the film. I got 100% dye transfer.
> 
> Here is a sample on a 100% cotton shirt. The results are quite good!
> 
> View attachment 198009


So you lowered the temp on your press did you stay with the same time though? Or did you up the time you pressed?
Thanks


----------



## Pintail Imaging

PreppyChicKids said:


> So you lowered the temp on your press did you stay with the same time though? Or did you up the time you pressed?
> Thanks


Yes, same time. 25 seconds.

I washed and dried the shirt with no visible change in the image quality. And, there is virtually no hand. Much like dye sub on polyester.


----------



## Techamongous

What paper settings should be used? I'm getting horrible results with numerous option already tried, photo, photo glossy, matte, I've tried just about every thing and I'm getting about 10% dye transfer.


----------



## STPG Press

Techamongous said:


> What paper settings should be used? I'm getting horrible results with numerous option already tried, photo, photo glossy, matte, I've tried just about every thing and I'm getting about 10% dye transfer.


I know this may sound stupid, but I wasted a number of sheets of one of my transfer papers because I had the stock loaded upside down in my printer. It was Coastal's Image R Dye sub stock. Very muted colors was my issue... Good Luck.


----------



## Techamongous

Always have to start with the simplest solution, I agree. But I do have the paper loaded white side up (printing on the white side not the clear)


----------



## PreppyChicKids

Cant wait for tech support to open tomorrow. My results are not as good even still. Lowered temp a bit but still seems most of the ink stays on the transfer and hardly any gets on the shirt it looks very washed out.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B17n3IMBtheWSmlXWHVaNUtNZllOSEdYajZBRm56cFlvOXFN


----------



## Conde_David

Sorry. Call our support. What printer? Are you using our presets for Ricoh & virtuoso's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PreppyChicKids

Conde_David said:


> Sorry. Call our support. What printer? Are you using our presets for Ricoh & virtuoso's?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes Tech support remoted into my PC and set up my printer preferences i am using a ricoh sg3110


----------



## amdivoff

How's everyone's testing on the Reveal going?


----------



## Techamongous

Horrible test results here.

Called twice today for support, was told I needed to leave a message for a Manager and never got a call back.

I'm Getting terrible results so far. I have tried numerous color profiles and paper settings. I have asked What paper settings and/or color profiles to use but I get no answers.

Im going to try one more sheet then I'm putting the remaining sheets back in the box and requesting a return label.


----------



## amdivoff

Wow Tech, would you be able to share pics,settings and equipment used?


----------



## Techamongous

Epson 1430 / Cobra Ink. Generic heat press (confirmed accurate with digital temp gun.)

I have tried all sorts of combinations of Time and Temp. I get about 10% dye transfer. The image is barely visible.


----------



## primodvdprices

Conde_David said:


> No, will not work for dark shirts.
> Needs to be white or light colors.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's the point of making this paper? If you can't even put this on dark shirts. You can accomplish the same thing with transfer paper with a regular printer. 

Can someone tell me the benefits of this? All over prints on cotton shirts? They don't even have rolls of sheets for this.

So far I'm out.


----------



## Conde_David

It sounds like our icc profile was not installed on your computer.
Give me a call: 800.826.6332 ext 202


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Techamongous

I have been asking what profile to install. All the ones listed on the site are not for epson? No?


----------



## PreppyChicKids

Techamongous said:


> Horrible test results here.
> 
> Called twice today for support, was told I needed to leave a message for a Manager and never got a call back.
> 
> I'm Getting terrible results so far. I have tried numerous color profiles and paper settings. I have asked What paper settings and/or color profiles to use but I get no answers.
> 
> Im going to try one more sheet then I'm putting the remaining sheets back in the box and requesting a return label.


Same here had tech support log in to my of they updated drivers and set me up but the colors were totally off and I still had same crappy results. I am also thinking about asking for a return label.


----------



## tshirtsrus

PreppyChicKids said:


> Same here had tech support log in to my of they updated drivers and set me up but the colors were totally off and I still had same crappy results. I am also thinking about asking for a return label.


So you are not kicking your poly supplier to the curb after all? LOL

I think you need to be more patient, eventually you'll get it right, in the meant time I'll sit and watch... good luck.


----------



## Embroiderygirl

I tried a quick print with this paper today with decent results except when the shirt is stretched it cracks soft of. When you stop stretching it seems to go back into place. If a women wore it it would look cracked in in the bust area. Anyone else had this issue?


----------



## PreppyChicKids

tshirtsrus said:


> So you are not kicking your poly supplier to the curb after all? LOL
> 
> I think you need to be more patient, eventually you'll get it right, in the meant time I'll sit and watch... good luck.


LOL nope not yet, it took me multiple times to get the whole sublimation thing down i just need to be more patience and keep trying.


----------



## Conde_David

I recommend washing before stretching. Seems to stretch just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

For Cobra ink users:
We are developing settings that for your printers. We are happy to compensate for film used in testing. Call us before using. You 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## adamlando

When will you releasing the roll form?


----------



## Conde_David

Not sure. Will find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## srchabra

I had pretty good luck in testing.

Using an Epson 7610 with Cobra Inks in refillable carts. Printing from Illustrator.

Used my normal poly sublimation settings which include the PPM Poly icc profile from Cobra. Paper set to Presentation Matte, high quality, and high speed. Pressed with heavy pressure on a Geo Knight DK20S at 375-380 for 25 seconds. No cover sheet.

Colors were good and got very solid ink transfer on both 50/50 and 100% cotton (Gildan). 

Make sure you lint roll well. I was using ash gray shirts and could tell when I didn't roll well enough. A quick second press with craft paper also seems to smooth the print out a bit.

So far, other than the cost, I like the product.


----------



## Techamongous

I give up. I have had ZERO success with this product. I even cut my sheets in half so I could try more settings and waste less.. 

Checked my press with a laser temp to exactly 375
Printed with the exact settings the other Cobra Ink user suggested. 
Printed with settings that Support suggested.

I get next to no transfer, what does transfer only seems to stick to parts of the shirt. 

Hopefully I can return the remaining paper for a refund. I'm calling it quits. At $2.50 a sheet, I can get better results with regular ink and transfer paper for 1/4 the cost.


----------



## 8th Day

Conde_David said:


> Epson dyesub: doing good.


What does this mean? 

I called the other day and was told that you do not offer a profile for this paper for the large Epson printers (8 color SubliM). Why are you no longer supporting Epsons, which used to be the industry standard?
I wish I had been told that when I ordered the paper from my rep.

I have your 9880 SubliM profiles for XP and SPP, will either of these work?
"E9880 DyeTrans Sublim XP"
"E9880 DyeTrans Sublim SPP"
and still have a copy of the much older
"E9880 DyeTrans XP720 v2"


----------



## Conde_David

We are supporting epsons. We do offer profiles for SubliM for 9880 and 9890. For new installs on the 9890/7890 we prefer the Sublijet Pro Photo ink set. 

What new printer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 8th Day

Same printer that I have used for years (7800 running 9880 profiles). Do I use my XP or SPP profile for SubliM with the Reveal-S paper? 
I was informed there wasn't a profile for it.

Why the SubliJet over SubliM? What kills it for me is that I can't find liter refills for the SubliJet on your site and the 350mL cartridges of SubliJet are more than the Liter bottles of SubliM (I assume because of the cost of the disposable cartridges versus my refillables).


----------



## Conde_David

Since this is the thread for Reveal, may we continue this on another thread? I prefer the gamut of the SJPP for Chromaluxe. We will support you with profiles for the 9890 with SubliM. If you want the king of bulk ink SubliM, I suggest the Mutoh RJ900X


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 8th Day

I'm trying to get a profile so that I can use the Reveal paper that I received from you! 
...but you're right, this is taking up too much of the thread, I've sent you a PM.


----------



## 8th Day

I just went and bulled my way through it (ICC profiles be damned!  ).

Here are the print settings I used (Texprint XP profile for SubliM):








The image below shows what the print comes off the printer looking like. Had to use an 8x10 size because my printer doesn't do edge to edge on 8.5"x11" sheets; This stuff really needs to come in a roll, but judging by the per sheet price, I dread to think what a 24" roll will price at.









Used a 100% Organic Cotton T in Sport/Heathered Grey.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how nice it is to align these prints with the clear plastic backing... the image shows through nicely for centering.









These are the press settings I used (from a discussion I read earlier in this thread):









...and below is the result. After pressing, there is also some kind of faint chemical odor that I can't quite place (almost like a Windex smell?)...









I used the color chart that I print on every substrate the first time, knowing that the lighter colors would lift, which will allow me to reference just how light is "too light" in the future. There is a definite 'hand' to the print, not dissimilar to heavy screenprint.










I'll run it through a couple loads of wash and report back soon.


----------



## alleluiallc

I"ve got the Reveal S from Conde but my sublimation printer stopped printing so haven't tried it yet. Ordered a new printer from Conde and hope to try it next week (5-9-16)


----------



## signmike

8th Day said:


> I'll run it through a couple loads of wash and report back soon.


How did it come out?


----------



## 8th Day

Just done one wash so far, but already have seen some changes to the print. The hand has softened, but I also see the print color lifting/washing out in some places...
I am impressed by the crisp detail in the lettering though... it's very legible at only ~1/16" high.


----------



## WalkingZombie

Yea, looks like the limitations of the paper (film) don't even come close to justifying the cost per sheet. I mean what good is sublimating onto the poly-based coated film when we still have to depend on the emulsion to hold up to washings?

I think I'll stick with my JPSS and wait to see if the development (and price) of this paper (film) gets any better. I may get a sample pack just to see for myself. Not sure yet.

Plus, for me, I would say only 20% of my images are vector and the rest are bitmap, so it wouldn't benefit me much. 100% of my wholesale clients create hand drawn images with so much color variation, so this paper wouldn't benefit me much.

@8thDay, are those color charts bitmap images or were they created as vector in Coreldraw or AI?


----------



## VanGirlAtl

I've been following this thread with interest - I was hoping to see that others were having great success with this paper and that I could justify spending my time and resources working with it more. Unfortunately, my limited experience with it is going to win out and the brand new 100 sheet paper pack I just purchased is heading back to Conde. If Conde had a place to leave reviews on their website, I would have entered this little novelette there, but since they don't, I hope this helps anyone who is on the fence or having issues with their Reveal paper.

My tools: 
Printer: Ricoh 3110
Press: Geo Knight DC16
Computer: Mac. 

I've been using JPSS for my shirt designs and have been mostly satisfied with the results but not super excited, if you know what I mean. So when Conde came out with the Reveal paper, I was waiting for my sample pack with great anticipation! 

Once I got everything set up with the print profile and printed my first couple of designs, I was THRILLED!!! The result was a gorgeous print with vivid color. In my excitement, I print several orders with the new paper and popped them in the mail - feeling sure my customers would love their new shirts. Big mistake, I know... should have tested the image with several washes - but more on that later.

After the first few prints, the paper began developing little "dots" across the image. Unfortunately, these dots resulted in my ruining several shirts because the dots weren't visible until AFTER the image was pressed. Called into Conde support only to be told they were aware of the issue and that they were working on a more permanent solution, however, in the meantime, I should scale down my ink density. I wasn't sure exactly what they intended for me to do with that, they were talking as if I was using a print system in perhaps Corel or something - but I use Photoshop. In any case, I was willing to work around that and try to play with the colors. After all, the results I was getting were far superior to the JPSS. So I ordered the 100 sheet pack. Second mistake... I should have tested the product more on MY end. 

First of all, I should have tested the paper on all the different shirts I wanted to use it on (I have 4 different sources and the material varies slightly between all 4) to make sure that the image would have good results across all brands. It doesn't. On material with more stretch, it doesn't look so hot... more "cracking" than the JPSS. Material with a tight weave seems to work best. Secondly, I should have taken the time to wash the shirts after pressing. Problem is, you have to let the image cure for at least 24 hours after pressing it and I got in a hurry to order the paper before the weekend. 

To my dismay, all the shirts I washed (and yes, I followed Conde's washing instructions TO THE T- ha, pun intended) quickly lost their bright, vibrant color. Most within 1 wash, and one (the tightest weave - a Rabbit skin) lost it within 3 washes. So they all look like faded - think of a JPSS image that's been washed about 20 times.

So that's been my experience. Maybe I've make a mistake along the way - I am totally open to the idea that there may be user error on my part, but I've followed all the instructions that were available, played with the heat on my press, tried different materials, different images, etc and there are just so many things that can go wrong. If only the color stayed put after washing, I would stick with it and figure it out, but it's just not worth it to me.

I see alot of the issues I've had reflected in this thread and that makes me feel like this paper is just not very user friendly.

I think Conde would have benefited from having a few customers test drive this paper under normal "shop" conditions before rolling it out to the masses... (not to mention that their instructional guide didn't include things like - "press image immediately after printing"... people like me who use JPSS are used to waiting for an image to dry - so I let a bunch of my first images sit for a while before I pressed them). 

I hope the bugs get figured out because the concept of this paper is awesome...


----------



## 8th Day

WalkingZombie said:


> @8thDay, are those color charts bitmap images or were they created as vector in Coreldraw or AI?


It's the MultiRIP RGB charts found in the link below. They are large bitmap files in TIFF format; The numbering lets me look up hexcodes or RGB values for each color, which works great when you need to print an exact color on a non-white substrate (like Vapor Ts). I have a colorchart shirt made for just about every shirt color I have ever printed on.
CMYK & RGB Color Charts - MultiRIP Sublimation, Transfers, Photograph and Direct-to-Garment Printing RIP Softwares


----------



## uncletee

can't wait!!


----------



## Conde_David

Thank you for the feedback. Next week we will release new presets that correct these issues of over inking and drying. This will also correct the washing issues that some have experienced. It is a learning curve for the different printers. I am happy to replace your test sheets.

I will provide a feedback area on our reveal page. 

BTW: the folks at Vivid Chemical are the ones working very hard to make these changes. Great folks! 

You can always email me at [email protected]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## signmike

Following for results


----------



## VanGirlAtl

Already sent my paper back. It really irks me that Conde and Vivid Chemical were in such a hurry to make a buck that they put this product out there before it was ready. Basically you've used your customers as guinea pigs. I know that I, for one, don't have the time or profit margin to do your experimenting for you.

At this point I don't care for replacement sheets, I would prefer a refund for the test pack and extra credit for the free "feedback". Definitely learned my lesson about being one of the first to jump on a new product!!


----------



## Conde_David

Sorry for your challenges. What printer do you have? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VanGirlAtl

My tools: 
Printer: Ricoh 3110
Press: Geo Knight DC16
Computer: Mac.


----------



## Conde_David

Did we add the Reveal presets to your Mac?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VanGirlAtl

Yes - sure did. I even emailed you a photo of the inking dots, per your request.


----------



## tprinters

I am having a hard time with the Ricoh actually printing on it. The few that I have tried, were with mixed results. I did try a picture and also a black logo with a john deere tractor in the middle, both looked great. I know it said not to do pictures but figured I would try. However other bolder text images were blotchy. I tested on a 50/50 shirt and after one wash & dry, still looked good.


----------



## Conde_David

Maybe post a photo? Are you printing with the Ricoh driver or power driver? Are you choosing the Reveal preset?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tprinters

Conde_David said:


> Maybe post a photo? Are you printing with the Ricoh driver or power driver? Are you choosing the Reveal preset?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can post photo either today or Monday.
Not really sure on the driver I bought the Ricoh from Conde and they went in and set it up.
Yes I downloaded the preset.


----------



## Conde_David

Great. Did you choose the preset at print time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tprinters

Yes, the problem I am having is the paper feeds in and red light comes on. I press form feed and it sends the paper right out. I can try five or six times with the same results. If I accidentally put it in backwards it prints on it. I called Conde and they said they are aware of this problem.


----------



## tprinters

The black smudges are my fault, don't touch the ink.lol


----------



## Conde_David

Yes, we have seen that issue. Try putting a white piece of paper at the bottom of the paper tray. The printer can't seem to see the film. Let me know if that helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tprinters

All of these pictures look better than the photos here, taken with my cell phone.


----------



## tprinters

Conde_David said:


> Yes, we have seen that issue. Try putting a white piece of paper at the bottom of the paper tray. The printer can't seem to see the film. Let me know if that helps.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I tried using a white sheet but it didn't help. It picks the reveal sheet up easily and feeds it up to the print head but doesn't print then the red light comes on.


----------



## 8th Day

tprinters said:


> All of these pictures look better than the photos here, taken with my cell phone.


Is that football trophy design on Reveal-S? I haven't seen anything as light as the shadows on it stick to the shirt with the samples I have.


----------



## tprinters

Yes, all of the attached pictures were done on the Reveal S sheets.


----------



## dis2u

Hi david, I'm noticed that release product was on march in the YouTube, I just wonder it's anyone or distributor in Southeast Asia? I'm interested to distribute your product and appreciate if you could contact me at [email protected] as soon as possible.

thanks


----------



## signmike

tprinters said:


> Yes, all of the attached pictures were done on the Reveal S sheets.



how have they washed?


----------



## Conde_David

dis2u said:


> Hi david, I'm noticed that release product was on march in the YouTube, I just wonder it's anyone or distributor in Southeast Asia? I'm interested to distribute your product and appreciate if you could contact me at [email protected] as soon as possible.
> 
> thanks




Yes, will do.


----------



## Kcemal

My first post...

We did our testing, using Epson WF 7620 with Cobra ink, and a Hix SwingMan heat press.

Print - Printed nicely, no problems with being able to pick up the paper like some of the other posts state. Looked really nice when printed. Used polyester color profile for texprint. Colors seemed correct.

Press #1 - Pressed per the packet that came with the transfer sheets onto Gildan 5.3 oz 100% cotton grey tee. Hot peeled perfectly (and I mean perfectly, looked amazing, peeled as advertised with no clear polymer, only the printed color.) Obviously no ghosting issues, since the paper is really stuck on there after pressing. Wasn't sure if I should do a hot stretch like JPSS, and Conde didn't specifically recommend it, so I did not stretch.

Press #2 - Transferred the second side of the cotton shirt, first side stuck to the bottom teflon sheet when pressing the second side but just a bit, and peeled off easily without any issues, and did not leave any polymer behind on the teflon (I did not feed the shirt on the heat press like the instructions recommend, because my lower plate has a large mount in the middle underneath). Same results as the first press...really nice, sharp clean colors.

Feel Before Washing- This stuff has a super heavy hand, considerably heavier than what I was expecting (don't they all though). Heavier than JPSS (before washing JPSS). 

I washed one within 4 hours after transferring (Conde expressly warns against this, but come on...its a test right). I washed a different one a week after pressing (If I remember correctly, Conde recommends at least 24 hours after pressing).

Shirt #1 (4 hours after pressing) - Hand was still very heavy, much heavier than JPSS after washing. Colors faded looked pretty bad. Polymer cracked like an old screen print, and looked terrible (but again...Conde says "don't do that!").

Shirt #2 (1 week after pressing) - Hand very heavy. I really wish the hand would have lightened up (like JPSS does after first wash). But I can deal with a heavy hand if the image still looks great...and that's where Reveal S took a nose dive for me. Unfortunately, after what was a great experience (printing, pressing, colors, no polymer outline, etc.) the colors were "poly-cracked" (trying to invent a phrase here lol), but only on the top half of the image (sublimated circle with colors spiraling through the circle, no gradients, strong solids only), the bottom of the image was in better shape but still not perfect. 

I am sure that somebody will may associate this with poor pressure, or inconsistent heat, but this is the same press that we make a living with on other media, so I may not agree. If it was poor pressure or inconsistent heat, then that tells me that Reveal S is extremely sensitive to temperature/pressure fluctuations...and that makes it hard for me to want to use without testing extensively. The fact that the price is $2.00 (25 sheets) to $2.20 (10 sheets) for 8-1/2" x 11" per sheet for samples means that I wont do much testing...so for me, Reveal S will not be a product that we can offer, until it can handle a less than perfect world. 

I may try another test (may as well use the remaining sheets on some culled t-shirts I have), and perform the hot-stretch like JPSS recommends, and see if that fixes the cracking.

Final Note:
I did have high hopes for this. The price of the transfer is completely acceptable to me, due to what the transfer can accomplish. The hand is acceptable if the image is nice, but I can't sell this to a customer since I won't know that it is a bad transfer until after the customer washes it. 

Your results may vary...if they do, let me know, so I can learn your secrets.


----------



## Conde_David

I have contacted Cobra and I am working with them to develop improved settings. That should help with cracking and fading.
Can you post photos.

And thank you for testing!
Happy to send you some more film.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VanGirlAtl

_(Shirt #2 (1 week after pressing) - Hand very heavy. I really wish the hand would have lightened up (like JPSS does after first wash). But I can deal with a heavy hand if the image still looks great...and that's where Reveal S took a nose dive for me. Unfortunately, after what was a great experience (printing, pressing, colors, no polymer outline, etc.) the colors were "poly-cracked" (trying to invent a phrase here lol), but only on the top half of the image (sublimated circle with colors spiraling through the circle, no gradients, strong solids only), the bottom of the image was in better shape but still not perfect. )
_
This was my experience as well and I use the Ricoh 3110 that Conde sells. Image looks fantastic before it's washed but it just doesn't hold up after.


----------



## Conde_David

Thank you for the feedback.
We believe cracking/fading could be caused by too much ink. We are reviewing now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VanGirlAtl

Just curious David, in the videos you used to demonstrate the Reveal paper, it looks like you used the Ricoh printer... was it the 3110 or a different one? Also, did you guys run any of your pressed shirts through the wash during testing? 

If you did wash your demonstration shirts, I'm assuming the colors held up for you. I'm wondering what could be the difference between the results you and your techs got, and the ones we're getting? Printer? Settings? (although I got your techs to go in and change my settings) Design program maybe?


----------



## mgparrish

Conde_David said:


> I have contacted Cobra and I am working with them to develop improved settings. That should help with cracking and fading.
> Can you post photos.
> 
> And thank you for testing!
> Happy to send you some more film.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One thing I have learned about cracking after washing is that the garment materials matter a great deal. For example most inkjet transfers including JPSS and Transjet will show cracking after washing on 100% cotton but not on 50/50. Pure cotton stretches much further than 50/50 will.

I haven't tried yet but FOL has a "HD Cotton" that has a tight knit and might resist stretching maybe better then most 100% cottons. Anyway it is designed for printing.

In the white toner laser area here in this forum some have made a special fixture that is used to stretch the material during transfer to help resist cracking as well. Better than stretching the shirt after the paper peel.

Basically a frame that the t-shirt stretches in and then press it. In that application 50/50s can't be used due to dye migration into the white toner or opaque added polymer from the weed free paper.


----------



## Sacman

I just got back from ISS Nashville and got to meet and talk to James Cobb who actually developed the Reveal S for Conde. Super nice guy but that is not the point. I specifically asked him about several of the issues people are talking about on this thread. I have personally not bitten the bullet yet but after what I saw today I will most likely get some to try. 

So first, he printed and pressed a sample while I was there. I am probably not the best judge of 'hand' and have never seen a JPSS transferred shirt to compare to but I didn't personally feel that it was too heavy. James said that too much ink can cause many issues and the best indicator is if the print comes out of the printer still wet it is too much ink. He repeated this several times and I was the only one talking to him at the time so I can only imagine that this is REALLY important. I didn't ask specifically about the 'heavy hand' because it just didn't feel that heavy to me compared to some of the other transferred shirts I put my hands on throughout the expo. 

About the cracking. He said that it should not crack if you wait at least 24 hours and then wash the shirt. this is another point he mentioned several times. He said that the bonding is still happening even beyond the 24 hour mark but their testing showed 24 hours to be adequate in most cases. He said if you wash after 24 hours you should be able to stretch as much as you want. He did specifically say that too much ink can cause cracking. 

He said they are working to refine their settings specifically for Cobra inks because he knows a lot of people are using Cobra so it might take a little longer to perfect settings that work with their inks. 

If I can remember anything else I will add later but overall I was pretty impressed. For those of you that haven't tried it yet realize that it is a new product and maybe their test market wasn't broad enough but they are working on the issues. 

Here is my take in the end: If it has the same feel as other products on the market it has a distinct advantage over the ones I know about. It is a one step process. No sheet A applied to sheet B press for x seconds remove sheet A etc..... or no cutting after printing. Overall a whole lot cleaner workflow and less chance of problems because it's a single step process. There probably are one step processes for light color transfers I just don't know about so I might be wrong about this being an advantage but I know that JPSS requires a cut and weed. I agree that the cost is a bit high and I hope to see that come down but I think it is still worth a trial for me.


----------



## mgparrish

Sacman said:


> I just got back from ISS Nashville and got to meet and talk to James Cobb who actually developed the Reveal S for Conde. Super nice guy but that is not the point. I specifically asked him about several of the issues people are talking about on this thread. I have personally not bitten the bullet yet but after what I saw today I will most likely get some to try.
> 
> So first, he printed and pressed a sample while I was there. I am probably not the best judge of 'hand' and have never seen a JPSS transferred shirt to compare to but I didn't personally feel that it was too heavy. James said that too much ink can cause many issues and the best indicator is if the print comes out of the printer still wet it is too much ink. He repeated this several times and I was the only one talking to him at the time so I can only imagine that this is REALLY important. I didn't ask specifically about the 'heavy hand' because it just didn't feel that heavy to me compared to some of the other transferred shirts I put my hands on throughout the expo.
> 
> About the cracking. He said that it should not crack if you wait at least 24 hours and then wash the shirt. this is another point he mentioned several times. He said that the bonding is still happening even beyond the 24 hour mark but their testing showed 24 hours to be adequate in most cases. He said if you wash after 24 hours you should be able to stretch as much as you want. He did specifically say that too much ink can cause cracking.
> 
> He said they are working to refine their settings specifically for Cobra inks because he knows a lot of people are using Cobra so it might take a little longer to perfect settings that work with their inks.
> 
> If I can remember anything else I will add later but overall I was pretty impressed. For those of you that haven't tried it yet realize that it is a new product and maybe their test market wasn't broad enough but they are working on the issues.
> 
> Here is my take in the end: If it has the same feel as other products on the market it has a distinct advantage over the ones I know about. It is a one step process. No sheet A applied to sheet B press for x seconds remove sheet A etc..... or no cutting after printing. Overall a whole lot cleaner workflow and less chance of problems because it's a single step process. There probably are one step processes for light color transfers I just don't know about so I might be wrong about this being an advantage but I know that JPSS requires a cut and weed. I agree that the cost is a bit high and I hope to see that come down but I think it is still worth a trial for me.



Very good update. 

My only comment is about the JPSS requiring cut and weed. That is only true on light color t-shirts. 

Using white 50/50 I never need to cut and weed, it barely shows on white 50/50 before the first wash, and no show after the first wash. The hand is also gone after the 1st wash but the transfer still stays durable and bright.

One advantage this new product would have over JPSS is that it won't require cut and weed on _light_ colors. 

Currently the best product for light colors in my arsenal is Image Clip laser for light colors. I was hoping this product would be able to replace that.

Even if I use the new Reveal S in place of Image Clip, I'm skeptical it can replace JPSS for white t-shirts.


----------



## R13chs

Hi David, i have contacted Conde on various occasions regarding purchasing some of the Reveal S paper with no reply from the team. 
I am based in the UK and would like to purchase the following item to sample RSW8511C. Is this possible?


----------



## Conde_David

Yes. Please email me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gnizitigid

Do you have discounts going on ?


----------



## Conde_David

Check our site for pricing info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raqi1986

Hey David,

Any luck using the paper with Cobra ink sublimation?

Thank you


----------



## Conde_David

We have received our ink yesterday. Will test soon. What printer are you using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raqi1986

I am using the Workforce 7110. I'll keep an eye out on the forum and/or call my rep to get updates on it.


----------



## Sacman

So I got my 10 sheet pack yesterday and took a stab at it today. 

Before I did anything I verified my press temp. It was actually about 20 degrees high so I adjusted down to 385 (365 on the readout). 

I bought some 100% cotton fabric from Hobby Lobby to test on. I knew it wasn't gong to be a perfect reflection of what I saw on a t-shirt but it sure is a whole lot cheaper to test with considering the paper is already so steep. 

I first tried to press a color chart. It didn't release for crap. I didn't expect it to be perfect but it was hot mess. So I moved from there to a Voltron logo. I want one on a shirt for myself and thought the colors are nice and vivid so it should work well. Not so much.

The blue at the bottom and the red at the top transferred extremely well. Very bright and vivid colors. It also transferred the thin black border which actually surprised me. Where it failed was in the yellow in the center of the logo. It fades out some but there is always some color. It is a bit of a gradient and I know they recommend avoiding them but I had to try it. 

I think I am just not laying down enough ink in that area to force the emulsion to release. I quit for the night as I have been through 3.5 of my 10 sheets. I tried a couple of different time and temp settings. I will say that 20 degrees lower was horrible but 20 degrees higher had no impact at all. 

Overall I am very impressed with the parts that actually transferred. The colors look fantastic and I was getting no cracking even when I stretched it within just a few minutes of pressing. I can see that too much ink might be causing that issue. So what am I going to do? lay down more ink. I am going to change my printer settings to a different paper setting and see if I can get a little more ink to lay down. For all the griping I have done about not needing a RIP, if I had a RIP, I could probably increase the yellow a bit and be in business  

If it wasn't a gradient throughout, I would just darken up the yellow bit some and that would work but there is no feasible way to do that. 

I'll will update tomorrow after some more testing. If anyone is curious, I am using Chinese inks with a Cobra profile on an Epson R1400.


----------



## puw

I owe this forum my education on understanding sublimation, since so many people don't appreciate that you can't sublimate cotton, and here we are back again promoting a product as being able to sublimate cotton. I know 'someone' will tell me that it's the process that is the sublimation, but it isn't in this instance. This process 'lays' a transfer onto cotton and so cannot be called sublimation.

Sublimation through heat opens the weave to allow ink molecules to become infused after cooling and locked into the fabric so that there's no cracking, no fading etc - none of the issues I've read reading all of this post. There's certainly no restrictions on fabric colours with sublimation. There are no issues with ink colours and gradients with sublimation. Replication is incredible with sublimation.

So can I please ask you to not try and pass this off as being sublimation. Instead call it what it is - a 1 step transfer process using sublimation printers and ink for a 'surface decoration finish' for cotton and blends.

The above is not in any way meant to demote your product which is a breakthrough in 'transfer technology', but simply to ensure that people don't get misled into believing that your product allows them to actually get the same results with cotton that polyester sublimation offers.

I'm sure some members will disagree, which is what we have a forum for. Take it away lol


----------



## Conde_David

Please read my comments at the beginnings of this thread. You are correct and so that is what I did. I also do the same in my classes and videos. Thank you for your post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

Also see my article as I explain the film. [media]http://www.dyetrans.com/wdg-nbm/REVEALjune16.pdf[/media]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## puw

The OP wrote:



> Hello, I have a question for the folks at Conde with regard to the new paper coming out soon for sublimation onto cotton shirts.


I know this isn't your fault as to what he wrote and I'm not attacking the OP, but it sounds like he might have the wrong end of the stick, but as the opening post, others will too from it.

I read the article before posting as well as watching all the youtubes on your site, but my principal aim is to help forum members new to this Biz appreciate how lines get greyed out sometimes when a term gets used in a liberal way. Thanks.


----------



## mgparrish

puw said:


> I owe this forum my education on understanding sublimation, since so many people don't appreciate that you can't sublimate cotton, and here we are back again promoting a product as being able to sublimate cotton. I know 'someone' will tell me that it's the process that is the sublimation, but it isn't in this instance. This process 'lays' a transfer onto cotton and so cannot be called sublimation.
> 
> Sublimation through heat opens the weave to allow ink molecules to become infused after cooling and locked into the fabric so that there's no cracking, no fading etc - none of the issues I've read reading all of this post. There's certainly no restrictions on fabric colours with sublimation. There are no issues with ink colours and gradients with sublimation. Replication is incredible with sublimation.
> 
> So can I please ask you to not try and pass this off as being sublimation. Instead call it what it is - a 1 step transfer process using sublimation printers and ink for a 'surface decoration finish' for cotton and blends.
> 
> The above is not in any way meant to demote your product which is a breakthrough in 'transfer technology', but simply to ensure that people don't get misled into believing that your product allows them to actually get the same results with cotton that polyester sublimation offers.
> 
> I'm sure some members will disagree, which is what we have a forum for. Take it away lol


i disagree on your assessment. _True_ sublimation is still occuring in this process, it's just that the t-shirt surface is being prepared (prepped) with a polymer material that can be sublimated.

In that respect it is no different than "sublimating" ceramic mugs.

Mugs are ceramic therefore cannot be sublimated. The surface must be prepared also with a polymer material that can be sublimated.

So we say we "sublimate" mugs so what is the difference? None. Both the mug and the t-shirt have polymer on the surface which can be sublimated, but no one squabbles when we say we sublimate mugs.

Also to say that "Sublimation through heat opens the weave to allow ink molecules to become infused after cooling" ...

Technically the weave doesn't open. Weave refers to a process done to a material. The polymer on the mug doesn't have any weave to open or close, yet it can sublimate.

The correct description would be that the otherwise solid state of the disperse dye (sublimation dye) turns to a gas within a specific temperature range. If a polymer is also heated concurrently and can reach the "glass transition" stage while the disperse dye is in the gas stage, then when both cool they form a shared bond. Both materials are now sharing some electrons. Hence the strong bonding.

If one is confused by the initial claim or statement it should be clear when one reads the details. Also, the OP statement was "sublimation onto cotton shirts". Sublimation _onto_ cotton is a correct context of this product.

I don't think this product claim is misleading in any respect, no more so than using the term "sublimate onto ceramic mugs".


----------



## puw

mgparrish said:


> i disagree on your assessment. _True_ sublimation is still occuring in this process, it's just that the t-shirt surface is being prepared (prepped) with a polymer material that can be sublimated.
> 
> In that respect it is no different than "sublimating" ceramic mugs.
> 
> Mugs are ceramic therefore cannot be sublimated. The surface must be prepared also with a polymer material that can be sublimated.
> 
> So we say we "sublimate" mugs so what is the difference? None. Both the mug and the t-shirt have polymer on the surface which can be sublimated, but no one squabbles when we say we sublimate mugs.
> 
> Also to say that "Sublimation through heat opens the weave to allow ink molecules to become infused after cooling" ...
> 
> Technically the weave doesn't open. Weave refers to a process done to a material. The polymer on the mug doesn't have any weave to open or close, yet it can sublimate.
> 
> The correct description would be that the otherwise solid state of the disperse dye (sublimation dye) turns to a gas within a specific temperature range. If a polymer is also heated concurrently and can reach the "glass transition" stage while the disperse dye is in the gas stage, then when both cool they form a shared bond. Both materials are now sharing some electrons. Hence the strong bonding.
> 
> If one is confused by the initial claim or statement it should be clear when one reads the details. Also, the OP statement was "sublimation onto cotton shirts". Sublimation _onto_ cotton is a correct context of this product.
> 
> I don't think this product claim is misleading in any respect, no more so than using the term "sublimate onto ceramic mugs".


I've no problem with your opinion. Thanks.


----------



## Gary T

Hello David Couple of thoughts: When I was at ISS Long Beach I talked to the Forever laser transfer people. They said that a 12.5" x 19" Forever transfer paper (for darks) would be available at Conde "soon" for the Okidata printers. Been checking Conde since January and haven't seen it. (2) Now I'm seeing Reveal S at Conde (for lights) with Conde mentioning that "for darks" is on the way... but again, maximum size for Reveal S on Conde site is 11"x17". Since sublimation printers can go wider than 11" (unlike laser Oki at 12.5" max) what is holding up offering Reveal S in much larger sizes? I see Neenah paper rolls at 24" width.


----------



## Sacman

So I have continued to try this paper with less than perfect results. To recap, I had purchased some 100% cotton fabric from Hobby Lobby to test on. The darker colors transferred extremely well. The lighter colors not so much. So I though, there is not enough ink being laid down to activate the emulsion. I did a couple of trials like turning off high speed printing which laid down more ink. Absolutely the same results. 

Because I was curious, I took the last half sheet I had available and pressed it onto a Gildan shirt I had lying around. The results were horrible. Now it was a dark shirt so I didn't expect to be able to see the design but I still expected it to transfer under identical parameters but it didn't. This sucks because if I decide to stick with solid darker colors and use this paper, I had hoped that my cheap learning method of using the fabric would prove out the settings so I wouldn't have to waste shirts. Not so much. I get that the plain fabric has a tighter weave but the results shouldn't have been that different in my opinion. 

I gave up at that point because I was frustrated. That was last weekend I think and I have not tried since. I have 5 sheets left to do more tests. I am probably going to go down to 1/4 sheet trials so I can get the most out of it before I run out. This is tough at over $2.00 a sheet. 

My next trial is going to be with a different image on a regular shirt. I will use a white shirt this time so I can duplicate what I saw them do at ISS Nashville. 

Depending on the results of my next test, I think I am going to have to try one of the powder coat options out there. I am curious to see the difference. It is also much cheaper.


----------



## Gary T

No matter what technique or "new thing" that comes along--- there are ALWAYS drawbacks. Talk to someone who bought a DTG printer---then a sublimation printer I bought from Conde that lasted a year because the Ricoh printer was not designed to handle sublimation ink, and so on....... This Reveal S sounds like it has issues as you have explained--- it works IF the graphic is the right type---- big, bold strong-color vector outlines. Well, you can't control the type of graphic a customer brings to you. Now, the laser transfer paper for darks has gone through a few generations and the results look pretty good. But, currently that paper is only available in 11" width. Great for kid clothing-- but the market out there demands bigger designs. Supposedly, Forever WAS going to come out with 12.5" width--- not much bigger but the Oki's can't go bigger than that. Can you post how your powder coat tests go? I think we are in the same boat.


----------



## amdivoff

Sacman said:


> So I have continued to try this paper with less than perfect results. To recap, I had purchased some 100% cotton fabric from Hobby Lobby to test on. The darker colors transferred extremely well. The lighter colors not so much. So I though, there is not enough ink being laid down to activate the emulsion. I did a couple of trials like turning off high speed printing which laid down more ink. Absolutely the same results.
> 
> Because I was curious, I took the last half sheet I had available and pressed it onto a Gildan shirt I had lying around. The results were horrible. Now it was a dark shirt so I didn't expect to be able to see the design but I still expected it to transfer under identical parameters but it didn't. This sucks because if I decide to stick with solid darker colors and use this paper, I had hoped that my cheap learning method of using the fabric would prove out the settings so I wouldn't have to waste shirts. Not so much. I get that the plain fabric has a tighter weave but the results shouldn't have been that different in my opinion.
> 
> I gave up at that point because I was frustrated. That was last weekend I think and I have not tried since. I have 5 sheets left to do more tests. I am probably going to go down to 1/4 sheet trials so I can get the most out of it before I run out. This is tough at over $2.00 a sheet.
> 
> My next trial is going to be with a different image on a regular shirt. I will use a white shirt this time so I can duplicate what I saw them do at ISS Nashville.
> 
> Depending on the results of my next test, I think I am going to have to try one of the powder coat options out there. I am curious to see the difference. It is also much cheaper.


I would like to see the results of all your testing. Post some pictures up. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

Gary T said:


> Hello David Couple of thoughts: When I was at ISS Long Beach I talked to the Forever laser transfer people. They said that a 12.5" x 19" Forever transfer paper (for darks) would be available at Conde "soon" for the Okidata printers. Been checking Conde since January and haven't seen it. (2) Now I'm seeing Reveal S at Conde (for lights) with Conde mentioning that "for darks" is on the way... but again, maximum size for Reveal S on Conde site is 11"x17". Since sublimation printers can go wider than 11" (unlike laser Oki at 12.5" max) what is holding up offering Reveal S in much larger sizes? I see Neenah paper rolls at 24" width.




Forever super size: I thought it was in stock. So will check. Also will make a 8.5"x19".

Reveal: next run of film will include 13"x19". Hoping to ship in July. Will post updates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

amdivoff said:


> I would like to see the results of all your testing. Post some pictures up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk




You may want to call us. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## amdivoff

Conde_David said:


> You may want to call us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


David, the post was intended for Sacman. 
Cheers. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## Sacman

Andre, I will post tomorrow. I haven't taken any and my lighting sucks but here is what I am trying to press. That whole middle yellow stripe will not release except on the far right (left in the image) every time. Ironically the really thin black line does release and the other colors look awesome.


----------



## Gary T

Looks like a fairly straight forward design to me that meets the criteria that Reveal S requires. If it can't do this simple, straight-forward graphic, sounds like a waste of time and money to me to go with this paper. Looks like you might have to try several different settings, wasting shirts in the process, to get one that is 'sell-able' to a customer. Reveal S might need more time in the development phase. A game-changer if it works 100% of the time though.


----------



## Conde_David

You could also email me the file and I can test on my end. BTW, we have now finished testing with Epson 1430 with cobra ink. It did well with cobra suggested settings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raqi1986

Hey David,

Are the settings similar for the WF 7110 with Cobra inks? If so, how do I get them?

Thank you


----------



## Sacman

David, I will email you the image tomorrow. 

I am really curious about the Cobra settings. Both here and other places, every failure I've seen is with the Epson and other inks. Every success, this includes full color picture transfers, have been with Ricoh SG inks.


----------



## amdivoff

Gary T said:


> Looks like a fairly straight forward design to me that meets the criteria that Reveal S requires. If it can't do this simple, straight-forward graphic, sounds like a waste of time and money to me to go with this paper. Looks like you might have to try several different settings, wasting shirts in the process, to get one that is 'sell-able' to a customer. Reveal S might need more time in the development phase. A game-changer if it works 100% of the time though.


Something is happening that prevents the product from functioning properly. I wouldnt jump to conclusions










Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## Sacman

I'm assuming you are using Cobra inks and an Epson then? And that is one giant picture!!!


----------



## Sacman

Here is a picture of the press. They are pretty much all coming out this way. I tried changing temp and time over 8 different attempts. All with identical results except for when I went too low on temp then it almost all failed.


----------



## Conde_David

Please send file to [email protected] along with some brief info. What printer are you using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sacman

File sent.


----------



## bhansel

Hi...I'm contemplating trying this product since we use transfers mostly (we do some sub on vaper poly) but some things I see concern me...for best results it's recommended to wash? That would definitely not work for us to have to wash garmets at all. And since it's expensive at $2 per sheet I'm trying to determine what is the benefit to switching from heat transfer which is about 50 cents a sheet to $2. I'm sure the quality is better and we could do light colors (dark would be better) but I'm still having a hard time justifying that jump in cost. Is it that much better? Thanks for any input!


----------



## raqi1986

Any updates on the Cobra ink profile/temp/pressure/time?


----------



## Sacman

After the problems I have had, I sent the image to David. A couple days later, I got a call from one of their tech guys. He told me to change a couple of things and all should be well.

For me personally it actually made things worse so I have simply given up and decided that it was not meant to be. 

But if you already have the paper then set your rendering intent to Saturation and press at 375 for 18 seconds.


----------



## raqi1986

Hey Wade,

I'll give it a shot today with various colors to get an idea of what transfers well. I'll also give it a shot with the image that you had (hope you dont mind). If I get any good results, I'll share them on here.


----------



## Gary T

raqi1986 said:


> Hey Wade,
> 
> I'll give it a shot today with various colors to get an idea of what transfers well. I'll also give it a shot with the image that you had (hope you dont mind). If I get any good results, I'll share them on here.


Disappointing news. I had the same experience with DTG--- everything looks great and easy at the shows and on the videos-- once you buy the equipment or the latest thing out there and bring it home--- it's a different story.


----------



## Dekzion

That's because there is always something missing along the line, some little slight of hand or setting that is un-achievable to mere mortals.
Will they let you have a go at the show? a little practice? slow down a bit so you can make notes of settings? nope. just a bish bash bosh that's how you do it. And if it's on youtube then by the time the vids done it's mostly on take 4 or 5 where bits didn't go right.
I'm sticking to subli cotton ta,


----------



## Conde_David

Come to the NBM Long Beach show. Will let you press. We may have time to print your designs so bring a flash drive. Can't promise but will try as the show should be very busy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zerozerobit

It's possible to buy this paper from Italy?


----------



## Conde_David

Sorry, no export yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zerozerobit

Conde_David said:


> Sorry, no export yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Ok, thanks!


----------



## raqi1986

I did some test runs with the paper. The colors came out great.

The printer was Epson 7110 Cobra inks. I printed through Illustrator. I used their Poly icc. Paper is set to Presentation Matte, high quality, and high speed. Heavy pressure on GK DK20S at 380 for 25 seconds. No cover sheet or anything. 

My only issue about the paper is that it leaves a certain smell when it is pressed. I am not sure what a customer would think, but If I did receive tha I would not be happy. I left it to dry for 24 hours and it still has the smell. That was the deal breaker for me. When it is washed, it looses the smell. 

That is my input at least. Unless I am doing something wrong for the smell to appear, do let me know. 

The others who have had issues with colors not transferring, I would make sure the heat press is at the temperature that it is saying. I can't say much about the inks. For me the inks transferred just fine.


----------



## raqi1986

I did some test runs with the paper. The colors came out great.

The printer was Epson 7110 Cobra inks. I printed through Illustrator. I used their Poly icc. Paper is set to Presentation Matte, high quality, and high speed. Heavy pressure on GK DK20S at 380 for 25 seconds. No cover sheet or anything. 

My only issue about the paper is that it leaves a certain smell when it is pressed. I am not sure what a customer would think, but If I did receive tha I would not be happy. I left it to dry for 24 hours and it still has the smell. That was the deal breaker for me. When it is washed, it looses the smell. 

That is my input at least. Unless I am doing something wrong for the smell to appear, do let me know. 

The others who have had issues with colors not transferring, I would make sure the heat press is at the temperature that it is saying. I can't say much about the inks. For me the inks transferred just fine.


----------



## puw

Can you upload some example t-shirts you're happy with?



raqi1986 said:


> I did some test runs with the paper. The colors came out great.
> 
> The printer was Epson 7110 Cobra inks. I printed through Illustrator. I used their Poly icc. Paper is set to Presentation Matte, high quality, and high speed. Heavy pressure on GK DK20S at 380 for 25 seconds. No cover sheet or anything.
> 
> My only issue about the paper is that it leaves a certain smell when it is pressed. I am not sure what a customer would think, but If I did receive tha I would not be happy. I left it to dry for 24 hours and it still has the smell. That was the deal breaker for me. When it is washed, it looses the smell.
> 
> That is my input at least. Unless I am doing something wrong for the smell to appear, do let me know.
> 
> The others who have had issues with colors not transferring, I would make sure the heat press is at the temperature that it is saying. I can't say much about the inks. For me the inks transferred just fine.


----------



## Gary T

raqi1986 said:


> I did some test runs with the paper. The colors came out great.
> 
> The printer was Epson 7110 Cobra inks. I printed through Illustrator. I used their Poly icc. Paper is set to Presentation Matte, high quality, and high speed. Heavy pressure on GK DK20S at 380 for 25 seconds. No cover sheet or anything.
> 
> My only issue about the paper is that it leaves a certain smell when it is pressed. I am not sure what a customer would think, but If I did receive tha I would not be happy. I left it to dry for 24 hours and it still has the smell. That was the deal breaker for me. When it is washed, it looses the smell.
> 
> That is my input at least. Unless I am doing something wrong for the smell to appear, do let me know.
> 
> The others who have had issues with colors not transferring, I would make sure the heat press is at the temperature that it is saying. I can't say much about the inks. For me the inks transferred just fine.


Can you try spraying the shirt with Febreeze or something similar and see it that helps and let us know. You are correct, I don't think a customer wants to receive or wear a smelly shirt. I'd like to know if others are experiencing the 'smelly shirt' effect.


----------



## raqi1986

I attached five previews. Three are on gray vneck hanes heavy cotton (I think). The other two images are on 100% tote bag. 


I sprayed a little water on it and prepressed for a few seconds, but nothing. 

I am not sure. I'd have to go and purchase some. Is there Febreeze that does not smell? I dont think it is a good idea for the tshirt to have any kind of odor (even if it smells good).


----------



## Gary T

raqi1986 said:


> I attached five previews. Three are on gray vneck hanes heavy cotton (I think). The other two images are on 100% tote bag.
> 
> 
> I sprayed a little water on it and prepressed for a few seconds, but nothing.
> 
> I am not sure. I'd have to go and purchase some. Is there Febreeze that does not smell? I dont think it is a good idea for the tshirt to have any kind of odor (even if it smells good).


Here's a link to some odor control products. There are a number of products here I think might work. Even a 'pet odor' eliminator spray might work. Odor Eliminator & Air Fresheners Needs | Febreze


----------



## influenze

This Reveal S seemed like an answer for my small business, but i used my entire sample pack and 3 shirts trying to get this stuff to look right and press properly for a customers shirt. Even had technical go through all my settings and set up a profile for my sawgrass sg400 with not much luck. I got a shirt done that a customer just needed 1 of and they brought it back because it cracked after she put it on =/ If i follow the heat settings that technical support gave me then the entire glue or film sticks to the shirt. Very frustrating experience and this sawgrass ink aint cheap! On the shirt that i had what i thought was a good print for the customer, the edges were flaky like when kids put elmers glue on their hand and let it dry. very frustrating and a waste of materials and money =(


----------



## tw78911sc

Gary T said:


> Can you try spraying the shirt with Febreeze or something similar and see it that helps and let us know. You are correct, I don't think a customer wants to receive or wear a smelly shirt. I'd like to know if others are experiencing the 'smelly shirt' effect.


We too are having this problem. The print quality is vibrant and crisp (stay away from pale colors as recommended), but the smell is so strong we cannot ship this product. We use the same press, materials, etc.. the only variable is the transfer media.

Tom


----------



## Conde_David

I have ask Vivid Chemical to investigate. Did you email us already? What brand shirt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary T

Conde_David said:


> I have ask Vivid Chemical to investigate. Did you email us already? What brand shirt?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am betting there are a lot of people waiting to hear about this odor issue from Vivid.. I'd also like to know if the Febreeze idea worked. Funny (no, not really) that this problem should have to be first reported from customers rather than Vivid Chemical discovering it in product testing and solving it before putting the product on the market for sale.


----------



## Dekzion

like you'd develop a product and think 'Jeez that stinks, ah well let 'em have it. We'll deny any knowledge, claim it must be operator error, and then promise further testing'. Sounds a bit Pharmaceutical to me.


----------



## Gary T

Dekzion said:


> like you'd develop a product and think 'Jeez that stinks, ah well let 'em have it. We'll deny any knowledge, claim it must be operator error, and then promise further testing'. Sounds a bit Pharmaceutical to me.


Sounds like you too have been burned by 'fast-talking' salespeople (maybe 'con artists' is a better word) in this business several times before too. Case 1: selling retrofitted printers never designed to work with sublimation ink and when the ink eventually destroyed the print heads, the same vendor would not take responsibility for it--- instead, offering me a free set of ink if I bought a new printer from the company. Or, Case 2- fast-talking DTG salespeople selling machines that never worked as promised and constantly broke down. Some of these people should be indicted. H.- you know who you are.


----------



## Gary T

How about heat pressing it with some dryer sheets that have a clean smell? If you do or try the spray odor eliminator approach, could you please let us know? I think the idea of printing on cotton through a sublimation process is brilliant and a game changer--- but if you can't sell shirts because people who have tried them say the shirts stink, it's not going to fly. I really want this thing to work as it is perfect for a one-man shop doing one-offs and doesn't require the expense of DTG or the time and mess of screen printing and which requires quantity production. I heard that Vivid was coming out "soon" with a product for dark shirts. If anyone hears of that, I'd also be interested.


----------



## Conde_David

What brand shirt are you using? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## signmike

Gary T said:


> How about heat pressing it with some dryer sheets that have a clean smell? If you do or try the spray odor eliminator approach, could you please let us know? I think the idea of printing on cotton through a sublimation process is brilliant and a game changer--- but if you can't sell shirts because people who have tried them say the shirts stink, it's not going to fly. I really want this thing to work as it is perfect for a one-man shop doing one-offs and doesn't require the expense of DTG or the time and mess of screen printing and which requires quantity production. I heard that Vivid was coming out "soon" with a product for dark shirts. If anyone hears of that, I'd also be interested.


Maybe I'm missing something, but why not use Jetpro SS or opaque then? Isn't this more or less sub printing onto a transfer paper then onto cotton, since it has a hand to it?


----------



## Gary T

signmike said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but why not use Jetpro SS or opaque then? Isn't this more or less sub printing onto a transfer paper then onto cotton, since it has a hand to it?


I tried Neenah Jet Opaque for dark. To me, it was like just one big plastic sticker pasted onto the shirt. The image was great and high quality, but that it would take too long to contour cut the spaces out between the elements in the design and felt like rubber after it was heat pressed made me conclude that it might work for children's clothing but that would be it. I have never seen an actual shirt done with Reveal S but plan on looking at it very carefully at ISS. If it just lays down the image ONLY and doesn't feel like rubber or plastic, (oh, and doesn't smell) then I will consider it. But every thing I have looked at (and tried) in the transfer paper venue so far just is not satisfactory when you compare the same image done through screen printing or DTG.


----------



## mgparrish

signmike said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but why not use Jetpro SS or opaque then? Isn't this more or less sub printing onto a transfer paper then onto cotton, since it has a hand to it?


This is a "weedfree" paper, those other papers are not.

JPSS on a white 50/50 is virtually weedfree, the background "window" barely shows pre wash and is is gone after the first wash. The hand is gone after the first wash. But light color t-shirts JPSS will leave a background window, This paper wouldn't have that background problem on light color t-shirts.

JPSS on a white 50/50 is the real deal. You really don't need to trim on a white 50/50. I just tell customers what to expect, they all know you have to wash the t-shirt, so it's never a big deal if the background only shows pre-wash and the hand is gone after washing.


----------



## influenze

I didnt notice any smells with my entire sample pack i ran through trying to get one shirt done. Just a product not working out for me is what i got!


----------



## Conde_David

We were able to recreate the smell by pressing too long. 385 deg F for 18 seconds heavy pressure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## signmike

I see the Reveal-S 4.0 is to be shown at the show in September.....any hints on the improvements?


----------



## signmike

mgparrish said:


> This is a "weedfree" paper, those other papers are not.
> 
> JPSS on a white 50/50 is virtually weedfree, the background "window" barely shows pre wash and is is gone after the first wash. The hand is gone after the first wash. But light color t-shirts JPSS will leave a background window, This paper wouldn't have that background problem on light color t-shirts.
> 
> JPSS on a white 50/50 is the real deal. You really don't need to trim on a white 50/50. I just tell customers what to expect, they all know you have to wash the t-shirt, so it's never a big deal if the background only shows pre-wash and the hand is gone after washing.


right, but from an inkjet perspective, I don't see how the reveal-S would work on dark shirts?


----------



## SouthMSbowtique

Reveal 4.0 is superior to every version before. I got a pack from conde when we were down earlier in the month and tried it with one shirt. i'll try to post some pictures


----------



## SouthMSbowtique

Here's a few photos....using epson printer "cobra" inks, photoshop elements 12, and a dk20S.

We prepressed for 8 seconds, lint rolled, and heavy pressure for 18 seconds and hot peel. very good color transfer and hand isn't as heavy as an ink jet transfer. waiting on the first wash now...


----------



## Gary T

Is there a link on how the new version is better than previous versions? 

Also, there were some complaints about the earlier version of Reveal-S having an odor. Do you notice it? I did read that David Gross and his team may have figured it out as an issue of pressing the shirt for too long- which is not the fault of the product.

In your experience, do raster images (not photos) come out acceptable?

And finally, there was some buzz earlier about Vivid coming out with a product for dark shirts. Have you heard any news on it and if or when?


----------



## SouthMSbowtique

no issue with smell whatsoever. i think the key is lint roll, prepress to get out moisture, lint roll again, apply transfer for 18 seconds at the 385 and hot peel. i didn't have colors coming up/not sticking like i did in previous versions.

also i didn't require any additional settings like the ricoh guys will need.


----------



## mgparrish

signmike said:


> right, but from an inkjet perspective, I don't see how the reveal-S would work on dark shirts?


The product isn't advertised as such ... working on dark shirts. A dark version is supposed to be in the works. Conde David would know more on that.


----------



## Conde_David

The folks at Vivid Chemical are hard at work to develop the dark solution. I spoke with them recently and they indicated that it was going well and the product would be easy to use. They will be in our booth at SGIA and in the DAP zone. So feel free to stop by and speak with them. Also see the Reveal-S in action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## signmike

I think I'd like to try the reveal-S sometime. I'll have to get with Robbie and see if he can send me a sample pack.

The dark version, however, would change the game for me. Bigtime. I'm not a big fan of the hand the jet opaque has.


----------



## mgparrish

signmike said:


> I think I'd like to try the reveal-S sometime. I'll have to get with Robbie and see if he can send me a sample pack.
> 
> The dark version, however, would change the game for me. Bigtime. I'm not a big fan of the hand the jet opaque has.


Yes, the dark version would be the Holy Grail if it works out. Crossing my fingers.


----------



## Eric45

Is Reveal S also available in Europe?


----------



## influenze

Hey David, if the new 4.0 version is really as good as whats being said, do we get a discount since we tried the first versions which resulted in poor results? I would really like for this to work so i can do multi color runs easily.....


----------



## Conde_David

Yes. We can swap out your film. No charge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

We will sell to clients in Europe.
Vivid will have distributors at some point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hawaiianphatboy

I am interested in purchasing some of this 4.o paper for sublimation on cotton. Was able to look at the prices for a 25 pack. I am currently selling a Kidney to cover the cost. Anyone interested please let me know. Having tried my hand at sublimation, I realize there is a lot of trial and error in regards to finding the right temp, time and print settings for the paper and ink and then the garment or substrate. At that cost, unless i charge my customers a whole lot more, I would not be able to make a profit in sublimating cotton shirts. I am a small at home business owner that mainly does screen print, some sublimation and embroidery along with vinyl cut press and decals. Again the cost for a 25 pack seems to be quite a bit out of my range. Sad to say!


----------



## historygear

*Conde Reveal S Feed Back*

hi folks - was so excited to try this - kinda getting mixed results. Any shared tips would be appreciated - did a test with a few extra seconds on the prepress - same's to make a difference in color depth. I found on 1 test was what seems like a glue at the edge (guessing it's residue from the substrate) Anybody else experience? I did do 2 up and cut - perhaps that the cause - any help would appreciated - thanks


----------



## Conde_David

I think you should measure your platen temperature with a metal candy thermometer. It sounds like you are running hot. Don't guess at your temperature.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## historygear

David - will check temp map - is it ok to cut the Reveal substrate - eg 2 or 4 up for smaller imprints?


----------



## Conde_David

Yes, great idea! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary T

Any chance the paper might come out wider than 15"? I do like the fact that it comes on a 50' roll which allows for variable length-- just using the amount you need. I haven't tried the paper myself but will be carefully looking at it at ISS. I think a 24" width on a roll might work well, especially with that new Mutoh printer and the DK32.


----------



## Gary T

Do you think a heated bottom platen might make a difference? There is an article that it does make a difference with Forever Laser paper- there might be a connection with Reveal-S as well. I've never seen this issue addressed in the Conde videos.

https://www.signwarehouse.com/blog/dark-t-shirt-transfers-white-laser-printers/ 

I don't know what the original artwork looked like in HistoryGear's photos, but the red looked 'washed out' to me-- but that may have the way it was supposed to look.


----------



## influenze

Conde_David said:


> Yes. We can swap out your film. No charge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I went through my pack trying to get it to print right, i might have like 2 sheets left lol


----------



## tprinters

tprinters said:


> I tried using a white sheet but it didn't help. It picks the reveal sheet up easily and feeds it up to the print head but doesn't print then the red light comes on.


David, has this issue been resolved yet? Haven't heard anything back from Conde on this.


----------



## Conde_David

Yes. We are happy to replace your film. Film was too clear, so printer come not see film. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Conde_David

13"x19" and 15" rolls are now available. Film is performing well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary T

Techamongous said:


> Epson 1430 / Cobra Ink. Generic heat press (confirmed accurate with digital temp gun.)
> 
> I have tried all sorts of combinations of Time and Temp. I get about 10% dye transfer. The image is barely visible.


What vendor did you use for your Cobra Ink CIS system? I'm trying to find a vendor that sells a CIS Cobra Ink kit for the Epson P800 17" wide printer 9-sub ink system but can't find one. Cobra Ink looks like they've changed their website and I don't see a 9-ink CIS kit anymore. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong site. Conde sells a 15" wide x 50' roll of Reveal S but to print 15" wide you have to go up to a 24" wide sublimation printer. The P800 is the only Epson printer that I can find that's close to the 15" paper width.


----------



## Gary T

Conde_David said:


> Thank you for the feedback. Next week we will release new presets that correct these issues of over inking and drying. This will also correct the washing issues that some have experienced. It is a learning curve for the different printers. I am happy to replace your test sheets.
> 
> I will provide a feedback area on our reveal page.
> 
> BTW: the folks at Vivid Chemical are the ones working very hard to make these changes. Great folks!
> 
> You can always email me at [email protected]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wouldn't it have made more sense to have corrected all of these issues coming in from folks BEFORE the product was released? After reading page after page of people getting bad results, wasting money and time, getting bad reputations by not meeting customer expectations, etc. it just seems Vivid and perhaps Conde should have taken the time to get it right before the ship launched. I am (maybe was) excited about hearing about this product---- but after reading all of these bad experiences from experienced people (I'm not) I'm not sure it's worth taking a chance on spending money buying a sub-printer and using this paper. Such a great idea-- so very disappointing to hear the feedback. Question: is it primarily for vector art?


----------



## Conde_David

Those are good points. That's why we have provided new film at no cost to those that purchased it. Today the film is included at no charge with every printer we sell. The film is very successful. Yes, vector artwork is the primary use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary T

Gary T said:


> Wouldn't it have made more sense to have corrected all of these issues coming in from folks BEFORE the product was released? After reading page after page of people getting bad results, wasting money and time, getting bad reputations by not meeting customer expectations, etc. it just seems Vivid and perhaps Conde should have taken the time to get it right before the ship launched. I am (maybe was) excited about hearing about this product---- but after reading all of these bad experiences from experienced people (I'm not) I'm not sure it's worth taking a chance on spending money buying a sub-printer and using this paper. Such a great idea-- so very disappointing to hear the feedback. Question: is it primarily for vector art?


Started new thread asking for anyone with experience in using both Reveal-S and i-Trans light at 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t724194.html


----------



## mgparrish

Gary T said:


> Started new thread asking for anyone with experience in using both Reveal-S and i-Trans light at http://www.t-shirtforums.com/search.php?searchid=20663346


Link isn't working ....


----------



## caffiore

Hi Rob, did you get your issues resolve with the Reveal S?


----------



## Gary T

I attended the Conde webinar with Doug DeWitt and some people from Vivid Chemical hosting the webinar today (7/7/17).. Several concerns I have:
1) Seems Conde is coming out with an Epson P600 to go with the paper. Why the P600? The P800 would be able to print out a much larger design (generally a requirement today in a competitive market where your competitors are offering 13"x19" or larger). I think I would wait until it is available for the P800 which also I believe handles roll media.
2) Having bought a Ricoh sublimation printer a few years ago (that lasted just over a year) I am concerned about the printer warranty of using an ink in a printer that may not have been designed for use with that type of ink. What happens to the Epson warranty if you run non-Epson inks? Who stands behind this set-up? Being offered a free set of inks if you need to buy another printer should the printer become clogged or the ink is corrosive to the print head is (was) not a solution.


----------



## cochise

Looking at Epson's site, the P600 will print roll paper and 13 x 19" sheets as well as up to 13 x 10 foot banners.........The listing for the printer on Conde's site also indicates a capability of 13 x 19 paper. Lots of good info about this technology on the Conde site.


----------



## Gary T

I see 15" x 50' Reveal S paper available on the Conde site---- I don't believe I could order that size paper if I were to order the P600---- I suggest Conde have a P800 version available and provide the various forms of Reveal paper in a 17" x 50' roll. What bothers me more is that I can't find an answer to what happens if I were to use Vivid Chemical ink in an Epson printer re. the Epson warranty. I know David Gross reads these postings-- so David, I think a lot of us would like to know the answer to this. Having been through this with a Ricoh printer using sublimation gel ink which only lasted a little over a year before I had to throw the printer away (and the offer if I bought a new one I'd get some free ink)--- I don't want history to repeat itself. If Epson won't honor the warranty-- will Vivid or Conde pick it up should something go wrong? For me, I'm going to wait on buying something like this until I read a lot of reviews from other people willing to try it out and see what their experiences were. When I go to trade shows and see printed shirts with this year's 'newest and best' technology--- I always ask myself-- I wonder how many video-takes or prints did it take to produce this sample.


----------



## cochise

I saw the 15" roll. I can't speak as to why Conde would market a product that will not fit in the printer they are advertising. I will bet that just like every other Epson printer, there will be no warranty without using genuine Epson ink. I guess the bottom line is, contact Conde directly and ask David the question...........


----------



## Conde_David

Sorry for late reply, regarding warranty, we will be consistent with the same policy we have had for the last twenty plus years. If the printer is under the manufacturer’s warranty and fails and the manufacturer declines to honor the warranty, we will honor the warranty.

Re roll width: remember that the Reveal-S film is also for sublimation. So it can be used in 24” and up printers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cochise

Thank you for your information on the warranty David. I am certain we all appreciate it.

I am anxiously awaiting the release of the full system Reveal WC so I can mothball my screen printing equipment, 4 vinyl cutters, my pigment ink, and dye ink printers and all the hassles involved with them. Is the Reveal ink sublimation ink so I can retire that printer also?? That would make this old man VERY happy.


----------



## Gary T

"and the manufacturer declines to honor the warranty...". Following is an excerpt from Epson re. the warranty on Epson printers: "....This warranty does not cover damage to the EPSON product caused by parts or supplies not manufactured, distributed or certified by Epson. This warranty does not cover ribbons, ink cartridges or third party parts, components, or peripheral devices added to the EPSON product after its shipment from Epson, e.g., dealer or user-added boards or components." It sounds to me like that Epson is making it pretty clear--- if you don't use Epson ink in an Epson printer-- there is no Epson warranty at all..period.


----------



## cochise

I personally don't care who honors the warranty. Epson made it clear long ago and continues to do so, that you will use their ink or have no warranty. We are all aware of that. Conde will honor the warranty, David made that clear.
I have a call into Conde Tech support to ask about purging Epson Ink from a printer using Epson ink before installing the Reveal ink...............David, I answered my own question about Reveal being sublimation Ink.........I am very happy.


----------



## mgparrish

Typically Epson on desktop printers does a quick exchange for your printer and gives you a refurb model that was repaired and boxed a long time ago. They don't actually fix your printer and return to you in these cases. Your printer gets refurbed later and someone else gets it. Never heard of anyone using sublimation or other 3rd party ink getting a quick exchange having issues with Epson unless they mention 3rd party product usage.


----------



## Gary T

cochise said:


> I personally don't care who honors the warranty. Epson made it clear long ago and continues to do so, that you will use their ink or have no warranty. We are all aware of that. Conde will honor the warranty, David made that clear.
> I have a call into Conde Tech support to ask about purging Epson Ink from a printer using Epson ink before installing the Reveal ink...............David, I answered my own question about Reveal being sublimation Ink.........I am very happy.


I'm glad you are familiar and OK with a manufacturer not honoring their warranty-- but I'm not sure everyone is aware of this. Personally, I have had to throw away a DTG printer and a sublimation printer over ink issues so I'm not quite ready to get burned a 3rd time. I'm wondering if I'm the only one on this forum who has had ink issues damaging printers. I wish you good luck on being one of the first to try this out and will be following your posts to see if it works out for you.


----------



## mgparrish

Gary T said:


> I'm glad you are familiar and OK with a manufacturer not honoring their warranty-- but I'm not sure everyone is aware of this. Personally, I have had to throw away a DTG printer and a sublimation printer over ink issues so I'm not quite ready to get burned a 3rd time. I'm wondering if I'm the only one on this forum who has had ink issues damaging printers. I wish you good luck on being one of the first to try this out and will be following your posts to see if it works out for you.


It's been my experience that inks are less likely to damage a printer than the ink delivery systems are. If you have ink flow issues then air goes thru the head, lacking any lubricating properties which keep the nozzles cool, then that can damage the printers.

Or doing too many head cleans in a row to clear ink delivery issues when the solution for that is to prime instead of head clean.

Head cleaning in some cases will eventually fix the problem, but not until the air bubble passes, by then you end up with a gunked up parking pad and that clogs the heads from underneath.


----------



## cochise

Gary, I have walked a mile in your shoes. I have an Anajet Sprint DTG sitting in a closet thanks to the garbage ink used in it. I have a Epson 1430 being used for parts thanks to a certain "sublimation ink". 
I have been doing this for over 13 years and have tried several major manufacturers ink. I settled on ink marketed by Cobra.
I have already used the Reveal S paper with my WF1100 and Cobra ink. The results were consistent with the paper manufacturer and Conde's advertised specs. The instructions were closely followed.

I spoke with a service tech at Conde about a new P-600 installed with standard Epson ink being converted to Reveal ink. He said there would be no issues. Just a couple head cleanings and the Reveal ink would replace the Epson in the system. Ok so what?? Statistics show us that the majority of electronic equipment will fail within the first few months of use. I will install the Epson pigment ink in the P-600 and print a few hundred JPSS prints for the stock car teams I sponsor. If the printer shows signs of failing.......no harm, no foul.......Epson Ink...send it back for repair/replacement. If nothing is wrong, I will switch to Cobra sublimation ink, a CIS system and start printing on the Reveal S paper.


----------



## cochise

Mike's input is absolutely correct. Lack of routine maintenance is a printer killer.


----------



## splathead

Gary T said:


> I'm glad you are familiar and OK with a manufacturer not honoring their warranty-- but I'm not sure everyone is aware of this.


Who ISN'T aware of this? This has been the case with all printer manufacturers since the advent of printers. Use a generic printer cartridge or ink or toner and your warranty is void. Even refilling an existing oem cartridge at an Office Max will void the printer warranty. 

This was the case 25 years ago and is still the case today.


----------



## WalkingZombie

splathead said:


> Who ISN'T aware of this? This has been the case with all printer manufacturers since the advent of printers. Use a generic printer cartridge or ink or toner and your warranty is void. Even refilling an existing oem cartridge at an Office Max will void the printer warranty.
> 
> This was the case 25 years ago and is still the case today.


The life cycle of a human still keeps going after you lol. There are new people every day that get to an age where they buy their first printer or want to use third-party inks/carts and are not aware of the warranty or it's not the first thing that comes to mind, even though it may be printed in BOLD type on the product box itself (who reads the box/manual anyway? lol). There are even those who have purchased multiple printers but have always used OEM inks due to habit but then all of sudden use 3rd party inks/carts thinking nothing of it.

Just because it's "common sense" to you, doesn't meant it is to the next person. Millions of people learn something new every day due to inexperience.


----------



## splathead

I've mentioned this in previous printer posts, and it's worth repeating here.

We need to be of the mindset that a printer is a consumable product, just like your ink and transfer paper. Yet, most think of them as durable goods. They're not. 

Printers don't last forever (or very long for that matter) yet we have an expectation that they should. 

You spend more money on ink than you do on a printer. Case in point, the Epson P600 can be bought for $770 on Amazon. The ink system alone from Conde costs $700. Once 1 cartridge is refilled, you've paid more for ink than the printer. 

Just like you price your sublimation work based on how many prints you'll get from a container of ink, we also price our sublimation work with the assumption that we will need to buy a printer once a year when the warranty expires. 

That means if you're doing 10,000 prints on a $770 printer, 8 cents of every print needs to be set aside for a new printer in a year. 

If you adopt that mindset, you will mind as little about replacing a printer as you do replacing a cartridge of ink. And you'll have the money earned to buy a new one.


----------



## NoXid

splathead said:


> I've mentioned this in previous printer posts, and it's worth repeating here.
> 
> We need to be of the mindset that a printer is a consumable product, just like your ink and transfer paper. Yet, most think of them as durable goods. They're not.
> 
> Printers don't last forever (or very long for that matter) yet we have an expectation that they should.
> 
> You spend more money on ink than you do on a printer. Case in point, the Epson P600 can be bought for $770 on Amazon. The ink system alone from Conde costs $700. Once 1 cartridge is refilled, you've paid more for ink than the printer.
> 
> Just like you price your sublimation work based on how many prints you'll get from a container of ink, we also price our sublimation work with the assumption that we will need to buy a printer once a year when the warranty expires.
> 
> That means if you're doing 10,000 prints on a $770 printer, 8 cents of every print needs to be set aside for a new printer in a year.
> 
> If you adopt that mindset, you will mind as little about replacing a printer as you do replacing a cartridge of ink. And you'll have the money earned to buy a new one.


Exactly. These printers are inexpensive and essentially disposable.

Even a $15k F2000 or $250k Kornit must be depreciated over its useful life, else $250k is a lot of $$$$$$ to flush.


----------



## lilsuz

Cobra sublimation inks with WF1100 printer - that is what I've been using. Thanks for your information here, I'll proabably experiment with the Reveal S paper when I have a chance. I've got a newer Epson as well, and some older ones too. LOL! Looks like an old car lot around here, but for printers.


----------



## JDILAN

I purchased the sample pack of Reveal S, but no matter what I do, the results are horrible. I've waisted a few sheets and tshirts trying to get the transfer to come out right. Any suggestions on what I could do? I've pressed for 385 degrees for 18 seconds, I've increased the heat, just in case. I've tightened the press so much where it lifts off the table when I try pressing. No matter what I do, I can't get it to come out right.


----------



## TomNorco

SouthMSbowtique said:


> Here's a few photos....using epson printer "cobra" inks, photoshop elements 12, and a dk20S.
> 
> We prepressed for 8 seconds, lint rolled, and heavy pressure for 18 seconds and hot peel. very good color transfer and hand isn't as heavy as an ink jet transfer. waiting on the first wash now...


Wondering how the transfer washed. Much fading after 1 or more washes?


----------



## sthasitall

I have used the Reveal S twice, both times after pressing looked really good.
One was on a baby gown, the gown has been washed twice and is beginning to peel/crack/fade. 
The other was on a t-shirt, the tshirt has faded so badly you cannot hardly read it any longer. I pulled it out of the dryer thinking it was actually turned inside out.
I made both of these for myself, so I could test them before using them on products in my store. With the results I've had, I'm afraid to put them on a custom order. 
Anyone else had a fading problem? Or suggestions for what I am doing wrong?


----------

