# CAMS, Decor, or Ioline Crystal Press?



## superfly1607 (Feb 23, 2010)

I am going to purchase an entry level rhinestone machine because my business has grown beyond my capacity templates. I am consistently getting orders between 30 and 100 pieces and my average design is 3-5 stones.


Can anyone help with the following questions?
Ioline: What is the actual speed? Can't find it anywhere.
I can afford 1-CAMS 1V-2P or 2-Ioline Crystal Press: Any thoughts on which route to take?
Ioline: Are they still developing? I can't find news more recent than 2011.
Quality/Accuracy: Is there any difference in the accuracy of stone placement between CAMS/Ioline/Decor
Tx for your help.


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## BML Builder (Jul 8, 2008)

I can't say about the Ioline or the Decor, but I do like my Cams. I went with the Cams because of their proven track record, service record, and speed. I have seen the Ioline run and it is slow. The company that sells the Decor is not known for their service after the sales. We purchased a printer from them and don't like their service at all. Cams is great machine, real work horse, fast and the service that Coldesi provides is great!! JMHO.


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## superfly1607 (Feb 23, 2010)

Tx for your input. It is a hard decision because of the $$ investment. Another benefit of Col-Desi for me is I am local to the Tampa area.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

I think the decision is a "no brainer" especially if you are in the Tampa area. The CAMS is a much-much better machine from engineering point of view. The moving X-Y table is a blessing comparing to the "roll feed" system of Ioline, and the speed difference between the two machines is huge. CAMS has larger machines so you can upgrade your system if you want. ColDesi has an upgrade program for that. If you use 3-5 different size/color stones in one design - like we do all the time - Ionline is a dead-end for you. CAMS have models with 6 even 12 hoppers, and/or 1 or 4 X-Y tables in one machine.

The only disadvantage I see (beside the price difference) is that the CAMS needs a lot of compressed air. To provide that correctly (no oil, no moisture, no dirt particles in the air) is not cheap. But this is a must, otherwise you will ruin your machine with the dirty compressed air.

If your company can afford it, go for the CAMS.


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## ifusion (Jun 3, 2011)

I once owned the crystal press 1.

If you buy from ioline, items like their transfer paper (with special edges for their rollers) can only be bought through them (or maybe on your own, but the size is hard to get) at a premium price.

In my experience, the bowls I uses, mainly ss10, didnt work well with a variety of stones... meaning the stones fell upside down and that caused a lot of extra work.

And in my experience with the crystal press 1, you had to replace the tips every so often which was about 20k stones. This has been fixed in the crystal press 2.

On ss10 stones, when all was said and done, I was clocking about 30 stones per minute.

I now have a cams 1v2p. It was a little bit of a learning curve. I have complete compatibility with all stones that I purchase. I can get transfer tape from anywhere, so my costs are way down! On my machine, running ss10 stones, I recently clocked 130 stones per minute.

The down sides are 1) the LOUD compressor that goes with the machine 
2) changing bowls from an ss10 to an ss6 isnt as quick as it is with the ioline... and sometimes requires you to re-align the system, which can take a few extra minutes. 

3) the cams machine require some maintenance every so often, lubing stuff up, etc... where the ioline didnt really need any maintenance.

Love the cams machine, didnt hate the ioline, but now that I have the cams machine, I look back and say, "I wouldnt have wanted to take that job on the ioline".

steve


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

If you want less noise from the compressor, don't use a reciprocating (piston type) version. Use a rotary (e.g. hydrovane) compressor. They are much less noisy and they can even come with an enclosure to further reduce the noise level. Hydrovanes are more expensive than the piston compressors but - in my opinion - they well worth the price difference.


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## ifusion (Jun 3, 2011)

very true, right now the home depot compressor was about 375 on sale, and the quote from the local dealer for the hydrovein was about 2500-3000 for the compressor and tank.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

I understand. Hydrovane will last longer but definitely not 6-8 times longer. I would have purchased a piston type too but the noise was a big issue here, so I had to switch to a hydrovane. No regrets...


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Well.
I have the 2 color decor machine. It came 6 hopppers, the air compressor and starter package. I ended up purchasing Sierra Hotfix from them also. (The best thing I could have ever done!)
I have to say I did have issues in the beginning because the compressor would not keep up with the machine. However, the support has been great. Each time I had an issue, their techs were out the very next day. I don't know if it's because I'm here in Texas where they sell them. I do know they have support on the West Coast as well. It can be very frustrating to spend all of that money and get bad support and at the same time lose money because you can't complete jobs. Other than the compressor issue, the machine works great. Had some alignment issues in the beginning also, but once I learned how to align the nozzles, I had no issues with the machine itself. It's pretty fast and from my understanding all rhinestone machines work the same way with the compressed air, etc.

For those with the CAMS, do you have a water filter and a way to keep your machine clean from debri and dirty air? There should be some kind of filter you can change to keep it from getting into your machine. My machine is in the garage, no issues.
I was in the market for the CAMS or Decor. I went with the Decor because it was 5k cheaper and looked to run the same way. Only you don't have to remove the whole tray to change colors and stones on the DECOR, you just unscrew and lift the plate and they drop right out. It also has a digital panel on the machine that works with you sd card, so you don't have to use your pc everytime you need to run a design. It stores you designs on the actual machine, and you can change the colors from there.
I saw the Ioline crystal press at the ISS show and was very surprised by how slow it ran. CAMS was there to, and I loved their 6 head machine. That will be my next investment. It had I think 6 (4)color heads or was it 4 (6) color heads? All I know is it was running ALOT of transfers the same time. lol.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi Jasmynn,

Just to clarify - the Decor was $5K less than the CAMS 1V-2P? That would put in in the same price range as the Ioline. Typically we run into the Decor 2 hopper at about $600-700 less than the CAMS 1V-2P - which most endusers who have used both would agree is more than worth the difference.


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes, Don it was that much cheaper. I really wanted the CAMS but was paying cash, so had to go with the Decor because of the price. 

I got the 2 color machine
6 hoppers for every size rhinestone
60 gallon compressor
rhinestone starter kit
and software for $10,800
A chiller and water filter was added later for no charge to minimize water buildup. 
I had to get a 220 installed because the larger compressors plug into 220, and they even paid for half of that. So, it turned out to be a great deal.

I was quoted about 15K for the CAMS. I would have had to buy additional hoppers also. Not too sure if CAMS come with compressors or not. Besides the CAMS reps I spoke with, I couldn't find many reviews on the decor, so I visited them often to ask questions and watch the machine run before I made a decision.


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## superfly1607 (Feb 23, 2010)

Hi everyone. Thank you for all of your fabulous feedback. I really appreciate it. 

Over the past week I have had demos, spoken to sales reps, and come to a conclusion.

I am going with Decor 2-Stone machine for the following reasons:


*AIR COMPRESSOR NO LONGER NEEDED:* They just updated their system to use an internal vacuum pump instead of an air compressor. It is much quieter, less equipment and no more moisture issues, or so I am told.
*Upgrade Path:* If my business blows up in the next year, I can upgrade to a 4-stone and apply 100% of my purchase price to a 4-stone. With CAMS the jump to a 6-stone is not realistic in a year financially.
*Price: *I believe my out-the-door price including the Sierra software, 6-included wheels, and shipping will land right at $14k. Cheaper than CAMS and worth difference over Ioline because I won't have to mess with specialized transfer tape, potential stone limitations, and it is about 4x's faster.
I will get the software shortly and the Decor Rhinestone machine will ship out after the new year. 



I generally do not purchase brand new technology, but from what I have heard, seen, and read I think it should be worth the risk for the internal vacuum pump.


Thanks again for all of your help.


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

superfly1607 said:


> Hi everyone. Thank you for all of your fabulous feedback. I really appreciate it.
> 
> Over the past week I have had demos, spoken to sales reps, and come to a conclusion.
> 
> ...


Wow, no air compressor? Sounds interesting. Looks like I'll be upgrading.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

superfly1607 said:


> Hi everyone. Thank you for all of your fabulous feedback. I really appreciate it.
> 
> Over the past week I have had demos, spoken to sales reps, and come to a conclusion.
> 
> ...


If you go with the Decor, I think you're making a huge mistake. I've had both the Decor and Cams machines and dealt with both Mesa and ColDesi. There are huge differences in the machines and quality of service. And there are a lot of little issuse with the Decor machine that you wouldn't realize until you're in "production mode" that are annoying. If you'd like more info as to my experience call me at 210-240-2671 CST or PM me your phone number and I'll call you. Too much info to sit here and type out.


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## mustfly (Sep 22, 2012)

I just received a proposal from MESA on the 2 color machine and it DOES require a compressor. Their 4 color (S42-2H4C) is vacuum driven and does not require a compressor. You might want to double check before you get your hopes up,...or...plan on buying a 4 color vacuum powered for around $25k (full package deal)


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes, that's correct. The 2 color is the same one I have with the compressor. The new machines are the 4 and 6 color with vacuum instead of compressor. I'm planning on upgrading to the 6 color and getting one of their embroidery machines.


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## HotFix Tech (Mar 21, 2013)

diana13t said:


> If you go with the Decor, I think you're making a huge mistake. I've had both the Decor and Cams machines and dealt with both Mesa and ColDesi. There are huge differences in the machines and quality of service. And there are a lot of little issuse with the Decor machine that you wouldn't realize until you're in "production mode" that are annoying. If you'd like more info as to my experience call me at 210-240-2671 CST or PM me your phone number and I'll call you. Too much info to sit here and type out.


The Decor that you had purchased was more comparable to the current cams and no the current models do not require an air compressor. It is a whole different machine.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

HotFix Tech said:


> The Decor that you had purchased was more comparable to the current cams and no the current models do not require an air compressor. It is a whole different machine.


That may be true, but the horrific customer service I received from Mesa would keep me away even if they gave me a free machine. I could not get the Service Manager, Terry, to call me back to save my life until I made the receptionist track him down and threaten to call the State's Attorney General's Office if he did not talk to me. Plus when I tried to get my sales rep to help me, Terry told me that that's not their job and I just need to stick to dealing with Customer Service. I'm sorry, I would think your sales rep should help you if you're having troubles with support. Battling with Mesa was the worst experience I've ever had to deal with and the loss of revenue I had for a couple of months having to battle with them was aweful. Plus, I had the added expense of having to drive 8 hrs round trip to pick up my old 2 hopper machine just so I could continue production after about a month of the new machine not working and they didn't reimburse any of that expense either. But when you can't even get the Service Manager to give good support, I don't think it's a Company worth giving my hard earned money to. 

Call Col Desi, I've had nothing but AWESOME customer support with them and they are a top notch Company. And by the way, I am in no way affiliated with them, I'm just one of their loyal, happy customers.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

We have a CAMS 1V-6P from ColDesi for three years now. We didn't have to call the service since then except with one small - but tricky - problem. Allen knew the answer immediately.

*If you want a proven rhinestone machine, buy a CAMS from ColDesi, if you want a good knowledgeable service professional, call Allen.* Be prepared however, that the CAMS spare parts at ColDesi are highly overpriced.


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## HotFix Tech (Mar 21, 2013)

diana13t said:


> That may be true, but the horrific customer service I received from Mesa would keep me away even if they gave me a free machine. I could not get the Service Manager, Terry, to call me back to save my life until I made the receptionist track him down and threaten to call the State's Attorney General's Office if he did not talk to me. Plus when I tried to get my sales rep to help me, Terry told me that that's not their job and I just need to stick to dealing with Customer Service. I'm sorry, I would think your sales rep should help you if you're having troubles with support. Battling with Mesa was the worst experience I've ever had to deal with and the loss of revenue I had for a couple of months having to battle with them was aweful. Plus, I had the added expense of having to drive 8 hrs round trip to pick up my old 2 hopper machine just so I could continue production after about a month of the new machine not working and they didn't reimburse any of that expense either. But when you can't even get the Service Manager to give good support, I don't think it's a Company worth giving my hard earned money to.
> 
> 
> Unlike you I do not live on this site to destroy the reputations of the distributors. The person ask what the differences in the machines were, not asking you to highly exaggerate what your opinion of your experience with the distributors were. I know personally what you are claiming is not fully accurate. I understand that you prefer one distributor over another and are bias towards a particular brand; you are entitled to your own opinion. Every company has their issues. I am not going to put down one machine or another. I have worked on many of them. The differences in the machines truthfully are:
> ...


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

Can you tell us the names of all the distributors that sell the decor rhinestone setting machine or is it only Mesa?


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

"Unlike you I do not live on this site to destroy the reputations of the distributors. The person ask what the differences in the machines were, not asking you to highly exaggerate what your opinion of your experience with the distributors were. I know personally what you are claiming is not fully accurate. I understand that you prefer one distributor over another and are bias towards a particular brand; you are entitled to your own opinion. Every company has their issues. I am not going to put down one machine or another. I have worked on many of them. The differences in the machines truthfully are: "

That's too funny, I do NOT "live on this site to destroy the reputations of the distributors". I am just being HONEST in my accounts in dealing with Mesa and if you search this forum, I'm not the only one with a negative view of their Customer Support. Maybe instead of blaming others for Mesa's problems, they should FIX how they treat their customers and earn high praises. And maybe they should take responibility for their own actions. And if you look at all my past posts, you will see that I do NOT "live on this site to destroy the reputations of the distributors" and I have every right to share my experience to protect others. I definitely have the unanswered emails to prove my experience and the emails begging and pleading for a response and help. The smart thing to do would admit fault, apologize and inform us that that lack of service has been addressed and fixed. But no, you'd rather destroy the reputation of your past customers.

By the way, who is this from Mesa ranting on me? Is it Terry?.....just asking.


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## HotFix Tech (Mar 21, 2013)

BlingItOn said:


> Can you tell us the names of all the distributors that sell the decor rhinestone setting machine or is it only Mesa?


yes it is only mesa


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## dhearn (Aug 22, 2008)

Hi everyone! I just found this thread and wanted to say that I just purchased my two color Mesa machine today at the ISS show in Orlando. The staff there were super friendly and answered all of my questions and didn't pressure me to buy. The main reason I went with the Decor machine was the fact that I don't need a compressor to run it. I own a shop where if a compressor was needed, I would have to run air lines through the wall or ceiling which would have been a pain. The pump on the Decor eliminates that problem along with a bunch of maintenance and it is super quiet. I was able to make a phone call while standing right next to the machine and hardly knew it was running. I also got a lot of free stuff as a part of a show special that they had which includes 1000 gross of rhinestones and the software upgrade! It should be shipped to me within the next week or two. Can't wait to get it in my shop and start cranking out some designs!


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## dhearn (Aug 22, 2008)

Here's a great video of the CAMS 1v2p versus the Decor 2 color machine that I found in case anyone is interested. I didn't make the video. Found it on YouTube. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yk4r9BBBJQ


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## superfly1607 (Feb 23, 2010)

My Decor 2-stone purchased in December 2012 comes with an internal vacuum pump, not an air compressor. The beneifits are that it is smaller, quieter, low maintenance, and dry air so not moisture issues. Support has been really great. If my volume continues to increase I hope to upgrade to a 4-stone by year-end.


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## shayne0307 (May 18, 2011)

I not too recently got my Decor and I am in love. I too was looking at all three machines and was leaning heavily towards to CAMS only because of the proven record. However after doing my homework, I went with the Decor and I am extremely happy.
The major difference for me was not needing an air compressor, which I knew ahead of time by was still heavily leaning towards the CAMS. 
Not to knock anyone, but while my sales rep was awsome, the follow through with training and technical support was just not there; maybe it was a busy time for them. I drove almost 1 hr to get to a local facility for the software demonstration/training and just before I got there I finally got to speak to the demonstrator, who explained that he did not have the software......so I saw that customer service may be an issue for me.
On the other hand, working with Mesa has been fantastic. Setting up my machine was great, and traning on the software was excellent! Thank you Berdanette!
As with all things new, there is a learning curve.....Maybe because I have worked with rhinestone software in the past, the learning curve was about two days.....
I am now up and running full steam ahead.
One thing though and a questions for others with either CAMs or DECOR, actually it is more about the software......
Has anyone figured out how to transfer or use pre-existing designs to the Hotfix software? without redoing the design? I literall have at least 200+ current designs, I would love to figure out how to utilize them without having to redo them all.
Thanks,


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## dhearn (Aug 22, 2008)

shayne0307 said:


> I not too recently got my Decor and I am in love. I too was looking at all three machines and was leaning heavily towards to CAMS only because of the proven record. However after doing my homework, I went with the Decor and I am extremely happy.
> The major difference for me was not needing an air compressor, which I knew ahead of time by was still heavily leaning towards the CAMS.
> Not to knock anyone, but while my sales rep was awsome, the follow through with training and technical support was just not there; maybe it was a busy time for them. I drove almost 1 hr to get to a local facility for the software demonstration/training and just before I got there I finally got to speak to the demonstrator, who explained that he did not have the software......so I saw that customer service may be an issue for me.
> On the other hand, working with Mesa has been fantastic. Setting up my machine was great, and traning on the software was excellent! Thank you Berdanette!
> ...


Shayne,

I sent you a PM about converting your designs.


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## BML Builder (Jul 8, 2008)

David & Shayne,

Do you have the Hotfix Era software? If so, David could you please send me the info about converting the designs also or could you post it on here so others could benefit from it also? Thanks! How are you liking your Decor, David? 

Shayne, I know what you mean about the training and service from Mesa. We bought a DTG Viper from them a few years ago and the sales staff was absolutely wonderful, but when we got there for the training we were really disappointed when the trainer didn't know much about the machine. He kept having to ask someone else when we had questions. We do love the machine, but haven't been real impressed by the service. We bought our Cams from Coldesi and the training and service has been wonderful. They have even helped us a couple of times with the DTG Viper even though they didn't sell it to us.


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## mustfly (Sep 22, 2012)

My .02 - bought a new Decor from Mesa in December and it's been a workhorse. After looking at CAMS, we really preferred The open platen style of the Decor. Picked it up ourselves...setup was a breeze....training in house was thorough....after sale service has been great with Bernadette regarding software questions. We keep the Decor running more than all our other machines and couldn't be happier with its performance. Even Sierra (software maker) has been very quick to answer software questions via email. We are now inquiring about the new compressorless 4 color. I give Mesa AND Decor a huge thumbs up.


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## shayne0307 (May 18, 2011)

BML Builder said:


> David & Shayne,
> 
> Do you have the Hotfix Era software? If so, David could you please send me the info about converting the designs also or could you post it on here so others could benefit from it also? Thanks! How are you liking your Decor, David?
> 
> Shayne, I know what you mean about the training and service from Mesa. We bought a DTG Viper from them a few years ago and the sales staff was absolutely wonderful, but when we got there for the training we were really disappointed when the trainer didn't know much about the machine. He kept having to ask someone else when we had questions. We do love the machine, but haven't been real impressed by the service. We bought our Cams from Coldesi and the training and service has been wonderful. They have even helped us a couple of times with the DTG Viper even though they didn't sell it to us.


 I think it is fair to say, as with everything, including ourselves as business owners, you do not get it 100% right 100% of the time. From what I have read, both companies have had the good and not so good when it comes to customer service....but I am extremely happy with all the service(s) provided by Mesa. That being said, for anyone looking into purchasing/investing in either machine, it will come down to mechanics. As I mentioned earlier, for me there were a few mechanical differences between the two: I love having the LCD screen on the Decor, The inclusion of all the hopper plates with the different size stones, and not having to run the machine with a noisy compressor........


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BML Builder said:


> David & Shayne,
> 
> Do you have the Hotfix Era software? If so, David could you please send me the info about converting the designs also or could you post it on here so others could benefit from it also?


I hope it's OK to post this... 

I did this video awhile back for the HotFix users and I'm pretty Marilyn you are an Easy Stone User as well...

Anyhow here is the video on converting Existing Designs with HotFix...

Easy Stone


Just as a side note... I've not yet seen anything specific but I did email with the developers of Hot Fix and they tell me they are working on a "function" to make this process easier than what I demonstrate in the video... I'm told right now this new function only works with PLT files which is a bit of a drag because most of the designs we can purchase come in EPS SVG format rather than PLT format... 

But converting existing designs in HotFix is pretty simple... 

Kevin


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## dhearn (Aug 22, 2008)

BML Builder said:


> David & Shayne,
> 
> Do you have the Hotfix Era software? If so, David could you please send me the info about converting the designs also or could you post it on here so others could benefit from it also? Thanks! How are you liking your Decor, David?
> 
> Shayne, I know what you mean about the training and service from Mesa. We bought a DTG Viper from them a few years ago and the sales staff was absolutely wonderful, but when we got there for the training we were really disappointed when the trainer didn't know much about the machine. He kept having to ask someone else when we had questions. We do love the machine, but haven't been real impressed by the service. We bought our Cams from Coldesi and the training and service has been wonderful. They have even helped us a couple of times with the DTG Viper even though they didn't sell it to us.


Marilyn,

Kevin just posted a link to his video. I suggest you watch it. It was a great help to me in learning to do it and seeing is better than reading sometimes. But if you still have any questions, please feel free to contact me. I'm sure Kevin wouldn't mind helping either.

Thanks again Kevin!


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## BML Builder (Jul 8, 2008)

Thank you guys!!! All of the info was really helpful. Thanks Kevin for the video, it was really a lot of help. Thanks Shayne for the info about the Decor and your opinion of Mesa. I have really looked at the Decor also. I have just been a little reluctant because of previous experience. But I too like the same options you listed. The screen, all the plates and no compressor are really appealing. And thanks David for you offer of more help, I may just take you up on that.


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## HotFix Tech (Mar 21, 2013)

mustfly said:


> I just received a proposal from MESA on the 2 color machine and it DOES require a compressor. Their 4 color (S42-2H4C) is vacuum driven and does not require a compressor. You might want to double check before you get your hopes up,...or...plan on buying a 4 color vacuum powered for around $25k (full package deal)


The quote you received might have been for a compressor style Decor because at the time we had both compressor and vacuum styles in stock.


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

I was at Mesa a couple weeks ago, they have the two color with no compressor now. It's somewhere around 13k


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## shayne0307 (May 18, 2011)

Hi all, well it's been about a year since I got my DECOR! Still singing praises. I broke my dognel (spelling) thing, the thing that looks like an external memory thing....anyway, I broke mine and had to get it replaced. It was overnighted to me by MESA before they received mine....then I installed it myself and just from reading above, I'm sure you can see I am computer challenged. Needless to say I did something wrong and some of my features were not working. I put a call into Mesa for some assistance and left a voice mail after 5pm. I was surprised when I got a phone call back that evening. Wessley, the gentleman who called me back actually stayed with me on the phone for almost 3 hours uninstalling then reinstalling the software. He also helped me clean up my computer a bit as it was running so slow. Once the program was up and running, he did all these tests to make sure the software was working properly, he even did my registration and customized my defaults......Now all I can say, "THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE". He was so great that I requested a survey, and they don't have one.... , so I thought I would share my personal experience with you all who are still struggling with deciding what machine to go with. Mesa and the Decor all the way for me. I am also planning on investing in the 4 or 6 color Decor soon.


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