# What do Threadless use to print their tags?



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Does anyone have a good idea of what Threadless use to print the care instructions tag in their t-shirts?

I ask because it essentially means I (and a lot of us) have a sample of another printing method right under my (/our) nose - but that's not much use to me if I don't know how they're printed.

Vinyl? Plastisol transfer? Something else? Anyone know for sure? The only thing I'm sure of is that they're not directly screenprinted. My money's on plastisol transfer, but I wanted to make sure I'm not missing some other method that might have been used.


----------



## Scrap-Boy (Apr 25, 2006)

can you post a picture ?


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Are you sure it's not screen printed? That's what it feels like to me.


----------



## kentphoto (Jan 16, 2006)

I'm almost positive Threadless tags are not screen printed. The tags on my Threadless shirts are all peeling off. Not because plastisol transfers are bad to use, but the print is too fine for plastisol to last very long. 

I'm sure they are plastisol transfers. Cheaper for them to have done too.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> Are you sure it's not screen printed? That's what it feels like to me.


I hate saying I'm positive when I wasn't there to print it and don't know for sure how they *are* printed, but yes I am positive it's not screen printed.

The ink (or vinyl or whatever it is) is clearly not interacting with the fibre in the same way a screenprint does. The texture/finish is different (shiny and rubbery, all the more reason for me to suspect plastisol transfers), and the ink sits on top of the fabric.

It doesn't have a particularly different hand, but it is noticably different in other ways.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Scrap-Boy said:


> can you post a picture ?


Sorry, I just assumed everyone would have a Threadless tee in their wardrobe. I'll take a couple of scans and upload them on the off chance that's enough for someone to be able to tell.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Okay, here's a scan. Sorry about the cruddy quality, I didn't press the shirt first so it wasn't entirely flat when I put it in the scanner - it should be good enough to illustrate however.

The top image is the front of the shirt, the bottom is the neck label (both from an unworn Water, Just Water).

As you can see from this scan (or an actual shirt if you have one to hand), the printing on the front soaks into the fibres, whereas the tag sits on top.


----------



## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm certain it isn't vinyl....the lines are just too thin.

But it istn't screenprinting....the way it peels, if it is screenprinting, means a spectacular misprinting on every shirt...which I doubt.

Can anyone who performs screenprinted transfers speak about "peelability"?


----------



## kentphoto (Jan 16, 2006)

monkeylantern said:


> Can anyone who performs screenprinted transfers speak about "peelability"?



When I had my labels made, the printers said to stay away from fine print, and wearability wouyld be better if there was a solid shape of some kind, with the text inside shown as the shirt material itself.


----------



## jrford (Jun 29, 2006)

I read about this in a screen printing forum. They said the process used was called "pad printing". A silicone pad picks up ink from an etched plate and transfers the image to the garment. It takes a split second.

InstaGraph makes some equipment that will do this.


----------



## TeeShirtSamurai (Feb 8, 2006)

jrford said:


> I read about this in a screen printing forum. They said the process used was called "pad printing". A silicone pad picks up ink from an etched plate and transfers the image to the garment. It takes a split second.
> 
> InstaGraph makes some equipment that will do this.


That good enough for you, black shirt? 

Good post jrford.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

jrford said:


> I read about this in a screen printing forum. They said the process used was called "pad printing". A silicone pad picks up ink from an etched plate and transfers the image to the garment. It takes a split second.


Pad printing is another on the list (sadly all too long) of printing methods I've heard of but know very little about.

What makes you sure it's pad printing? (I ask because with some people certain it's one thing and others certain it's another, I'm trying to be sure what it actually is).


----------



## Scrap-Boy (Apr 25, 2006)

Melbourn Solmu, thanks for the quick scan.
woops!  i must be the only freakin' peep in the universe that does not have a Threadless shirt.... hard to tell from the picks you posted ????

personally i'm a Hip Fan Groupie " Tragically Hip "... their shirts are only $ 10 http://www.hipbase.com/store/ .


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

There's no reason everyone should own a Threadless tee, I'm just in my own little world sometimes 

Unfortunately I think it's hard to judge these kind of things without something to physically examine. I think the scan proves that it's not screenprinting, but that's about it.


----------



## Scrap-Boy (Apr 25, 2006)

have you ruled out printed vinyl yet ?


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Scrap-Boy said:


> have you ruled out printed vinyl yet ?


Screenprinting is the only thing I've ruled out. I don't know enough about other methods that I feel like I could reasonably be 100% sure in the case of anything else (well... it's clearly not a digital transfer or dye sublimation either).

It seems like the line work is way too fine and difficult to weed for vinyl though?


----------



## jrford (Jun 29, 2006)

Solmu said:


> What makes you sure it's pad printing? (I ask because with some people certain it's one thing and others certain it's another, I'm trying to be sure what it actually is).


I can't be 100% sure but, I was reading a forum where professional screen printers hang out and caught a discussion about tagless tee's from the manufacturer's point. That is where I first heard of pad printing and when I first heard about InstaGraph equipment. It does make sense from a manufacturing point even though the etched plate is expensive to make. Each imprint can be done in a split second, the garment can easily be fed and removed by machine instead of a person and the curing process can be fully automated as well. In other words, it is a very cost effective application for high volume operations.

As far as the lettering "sitting on top" of the garment, I would guess they had problems with the curing process. Screen prints require proper curing which is what you are doing to Plastisol when you press it onto a shirt or hat.

At least, that is my understanding of the issue.


----------



## chloe (Jul 8, 2006)

Hello, I've also been searching for the same answer. I've found manufacturers that make these lables but we'd like to make them ourselves. It looks like the label is printed on to a clear film then it is heat pressed onto the fabric. I don't think it's done with a cutter as the lettering is too fine. Any ideas how it is printed onto the film, what inks are used, and what type of film is it? Any help would be great. Cheers!


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

jrford said:


> I was reading a forum where professional screen printers hang out and caught a discussion about tagless tee's from the manufacturer's point.


Thanks for the info, it definitely sounds like a possibility.



jrford said:


> It does make sense from a manufacturing point even though the etched plate is expensive to make.


I don't suppose anyone happened to mention how expensive?

Threadless have one label per size per design - in other words at least nine different labels. On the other hand they do print in quantity (probably 200-500 per size at a guess, though it could be more).



jrford said:


> As far as the lettering "sitting on top" of the garment, I would guess they had problems with the curing process. Screen prints require proper curing which is what you are doing to Plastisol when you press it onto a shirt or hat.


Anything's possible, but it doesn't seem particularly likely. All the labels have the same feature/problem, but the printing on all their shirts is fine. I'd say the flaws are inherent in whatever medium they're using.


----------



## jdr8271 (Jun 16, 2005)

It just wouldnt make sence for them to use plasticol (although from the picture/descirption it looks like plasticol) They arent printing anything to order. It is all printed ahead of time, so it must be some type of screen printing. Could it just be that they are using a puffy ink?

And also, it definitely isnt vinyl.


----------



## kentphoto (Jan 16, 2006)

As I said before, all my threadless labels are peeling away. And from the feel of them, they are plastisol heat transfers. They are peeling because the print is too fine, and plastisol will do this, if the text is too fine. They probably do the labels this way, to save money. 

Think about it, they print a few hundred transfer sheets, cut out the transfers, and pay some guy minimum wage to bang them out. 

Maybe it's some secret method of printing that nobody knows about. The Jakes from Threadless head into their Bat cave, and print the labels by moonlight. After which, they do a secret ceremonial dance, before heading back to the office with their iBooks under their arms.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

jdr8271 said:


> It just wouldnt make sence for them to use plasticol (although from the picture/descirption it looks like plasticol) They arent printing anything to order. It is all printed ahead of time, so it must be some type of screen printing.


As Kent said it could cut labour costs to use plastisol transfers. They can also give the task to the work experience kid if they were so inclined, with less risk of them botching a shirt.

If you wanted to do these on transfer paper you could print massive sheets on an automatic printer. Even by hand, a large sheet on a vacuum table could be done in no time. Admittedly you then have to press each shirt by hand, which seems needlessly time consuming.



jdr8271 said:


> And also, it definitely isnt vinyl.


Thanks, that's another method I'll cross off the list then (I thought it was unlikely, but didn't feel I could be sure).


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

kentphoto said:


> As I said before, all my threadless labels are peeling away. And from the feel of them, they are plastisol heat transfers. They are peeling because the print is too fine, and plastisol will do this, if the text is too fine. They probably do the labels this way, to save money.


I agree that this is the most likely explanation. I did overlook things like pad printing though, so I guess that's something else for me to look into.



kentphoto said:


> Maybe it's some secret method of printing that nobody knows about. The Jakes from Threadless head into their Bat cave, and print the labels by moonlight. After which, they do a secret ceremonial dance, before heading back to the office with their iBooks under their arms.


...but on the other hand, this possibility also has a certain weight.


----------



## jrford (Jun 29, 2006)

Earlier I mistakenly wrote that Printa made the pad printers. I was wrong. The one I stumbed across was Printex. (They do kind of sound similar, right?)

You may wish to go to http://www.printexusa.com and check out their pad printers. The first one I looked at was capable of 400/2400 impressions per hour. 

Besides being able to handle the sheer volume these things don't take coffee breaks, talk on their cell phones during work hours, or demand benefits.

From what I understand they can use just about any ink but normally get loaded with Plastisol and have a conveyer type dryer installed after their position in the line.


----------



## cposch (Apr 20, 2006)

is there a place where i can order some labels and then iron them on myself??


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> is there a place where i can order some labels and then iron them on myself?


This might help 
http://www.google.com/search?q=iron+on+labels


----------



## shirtstain (Jul 14, 2006)

I saw this machine in one of Shimala's little videos so here is your answer: http://www.hixcorp.com/r2r.htm 

These little puppies cost over $7K and you're looking at close to $1500 to get the rolls of labels produced. I saw it in action last year at a screenprint show and it's really sweet. But you gotta be doing some serious t-shirt sales to justify spending the money for this machine.


----------



## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

shirtstain said:


> But you gotta be doing some serious t-shirt sales to justify spending the money for this machine.


Well, as of 8 months ago, threadless were shifting 60,000 shirts a month (up to 70-80 or so now I guess, with their increased rates of new lines), so I'm sure they could manage it.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

shirtstain said:


> I saw this machine in one of Shimala's little videos so here is your answer


Excellent.



shirtstain said:


> But you gotta be doing some serious t-shirt sales to justify spending the money for this machine.


That's not an issue: I wanted to know what it was so I didn't accidentally use it or recommend it.


----------



## shirtstain (Jul 14, 2006)

Well, I've seen it in action and it was great. My guess is that they aren't waiting long enough for the heat pad to get the full cure. The lady in the video was zooming through them and I think I recall it needing 6 seconds per transfer.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

You're right - I shouldn't write off the technology based on the way one company uses it. There are other finishing touches they don't do neatly (cutting the tags out for example), so I shouldn't assume they're above cutting other corners.


----------



## Scrap-Boy (Apr 25, 2006)

cposch said:


> is there a place where i can order some labels and then iron them on myself??


one way to get labels at a very good price is talk to your transfer manufacturer. A lot of times when running a 25x38 sheet size job there is extra room to squeeze 8 up or so small label type designs. So just ask the manufacturer next time they are running such in your colors to add you on to the job.

8 x 500 sheets 4,000 labels.... wow! you would get a lot of labels for about $ 50 ... $ .01 cents ea.


----------



## FatRabbitFarm (Aug 22, 2006)

i have one of threadless tee..could it be heat transfer? seems like it but the color are too vibrant...sorry i was no help :/


----------



## mattarmstrong (May 12, 2007)

i cant imagine this is a proprietary method.....has anyone contacted threadless to find out......or know the owners on here???? jst a thought!


----------



## blobert (Jul 30, 2009)

Did anyone ever fully solve this mystery as to how they do it?

There seem to be loads of t shirt printers doing this now so it must be more commonplace now.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

blobert said:


> Did anyone ever fully solve this mystery as to how they do it?
> 
> There seem to be loads of t shirt printers doing this now so it must be more commonplace now.


Most t-shirt printers these days just screen print the tag in the label as a 1 color screen print.


----------



## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

we have done both, and direct is far better for longevity. the transfers will start to break up over time. we thought printing the transfers and then putting them in would be faster and more efficient because we could print all sizes and labels at one time then just cut them out, but it turned its faster and better if we throw them on the press one size at a time.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

blobert said:


> There seem to be loads of t shirt printers doing this now so it must be more commonplace now.


Most of them are just screenprinted, but the Threadless tags don't look the same as the print on the front of the shirt, or the ones other companies screenprint.

They're _probably_ just screenprinted (or pad printed), but they're obviously doing something at least a little differently to pretty much everyone else.

But yes, it's commonplace now for printers to do it as just an additional print location.


----------



## blobert (Jul 30, 2009)

So would it be possible to incorperate the screen printed tag, if it was just a basic one that didn't go down too far into the main design to save on printing costs?

I'm not familiar with the screen printing process so not sure what it possible. I suppose the problem with this is that the design might be printed differently on different sized shirts (I would not be putting a size on the shirt so could use the same screen for all sizes)

Let me know if this sounds possible.

Thanks


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

blobert said:


> So would it be possible to incorperate the screen printed tag, if it was just a basic one that didn't go down too far into the main design to save on printing costs?


I'm not really sure what you're asking here... it sounds like you're trying to combine the actual shirt print and the tag print into one print? If so, it's not possible.


----------



## blobert (Jul 30, 2009)

Solmu said:


> I'm not really sure what you're asking here... it sounds like you're trying to combine the actual shirt print and the tag print into one print? If so, it's not possible.


Yes, that was pretty much what I was suggesting. How come it wouldn't work?


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

blobert said:


> How come it wouldn't work?


Because you're proposing to print on the outside of something at the same time as you print on the inside of something.


----------



## blobert (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks,

What I was thinking was (looking at the basic illustration of the t shirt to the left) would it be possible to print both on the front of the garment and on the small piece of the inside that is visible around the neck when the t shirt is being printed on the front?

I know that to print a full tag on the inside of the shirt would not be possible at the same time, but it looks like you might be able to put a name or something in small writing in the way I am proposing.

That said, I'm only guessing, perhaps someone could let me know.

Thanks again



Solmu said:


> Because you're proposing to print on the outside of something at the same time as you print on the inside of something.


----------



## krissiemorando (Jan 8, 2010)

what shirts are they printing on?????? I need a high end shirt (like the american apparel new "power wash"" but tagless....like now


----------



## Titchimp (Nov 30, 2006)

krissiemorando said:


> what shirts are they printing on?????? I need a high end shirt (like the american apparel new "power wash"" but tagless....like now


It's their own brand.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

krissiemorando said:


> what shirts are they printing on?????? I need a high end shirt (like the american apparel new "power wash"" but tagless....like now


They used to print on Fruit of the Loom 50/50 tees, then they went to American Apparel, and now they use their own brand. I think they still use American Apparel on some designs.

Some of the "premium" tees they have are printed on Alternative Apparel blanks.


----------

