# Opinions-PR 650 stitch quality vs commercial machines



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi all! Like many others on here I have been reading behind the scenes for many months on this invaluable forum.  I had to finally get brave enough to make my first post and ask opinions. I would like to know if the stitch quality of the Brother PR650 is EQUAL to a commercial machine? Meaning, if you were to stitch a "fancy" monogram and did a side by side comparison would you be able to tell a difference in quality between machines? Thank you so much!


----------



## ikkuh (Apr 8, 2010)

:welcome:

The pr series from brother are super machines to start with.
The stich quality is perfect, just like any other machine.


----------



## VLCUSTOMS (Apr 3, 2007)

i'm looking to get the pr 650 or pr 1000 just starting out. witch one and what do you think?


----------



## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

The quality is the same. The only difference is the speed. A true commercial machine is much faster.


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Ikkuh have you compared the 650 to the stitch quality of a single head Tajima, Melco, Barudan or Toyota? Also does anyone know the maximum monogram size I could do with a 650? Thanks so much for the opinions!


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Luv Em Tigers-so in a side by side comparison you could not be able to differentiate which machine did the stitching?


----------



## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

jeweltx said:


> Luv Em Tigers-so in a side by side comparison you could not be able to differentiate which machine did the stitching?



Nope not at all. I have a Brother PR-600 (my first embroidery machine) and a Tajima Neo-2 and you can't tell the difference in the stitching. The only difference is the number of needles and the speed. The PR series takes a few seconds to get up to full speed and a few seconds to come to a stop. The Tajima takes about a second for both. The trims are much faster on the Tajima and the head traveling from needle to needle is much faster and the frame movement while not sewing is much faster on the Tajima (and all true commercial machines). 

Those sound like little things but the BIG difference is when you set the embroidery speed. I do a lot of monogramming with satin stitches. If I set my PR600 at 900 spm, it probably sews at about 500-550 spm about 95% of the time. On my Tajima if I set it at 900 spm, it runs 900 spm about 95% of the time. When it gets relatively wide satin stitches the Tajima may slow down to about 750-800 spm, the PR600 may slow down to 200 spm. 

On 10,000 stitch design the Tajima may take about 12 minutes, the PR600 will take about 20 minutes.


----------



## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

What Craig said... I also have a commercial machine (SWF-E/1501T) and Brother PR600's. No difference between how the files stitch out if the tensions are set correctly on both machines. The commercial machine will run at a higher continuous speed than the PR's, it has a much bigger sewing field and more needles. From a stitch quality perspective, they are pretty much indistinguishable.


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Ahhhh, thanks so much!!  So for a lower production business where speed isn't a huge factor a 600 series would do? I realize the sewing field is only 12x8 -so does that mean that is the largest size monogram or design I could do?


----------



## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

jeweltx said:


> Ahhhh, thanks so much!!  So for a lower production business where speed isn't a huge factor a 600 series would do? I realize the sewing field is only 12x8 -so does that mean that is the largest size monogram or design I could do?



In one section, yes.


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

LUV DEM TIGERS said:


> In one section, yes.


Please excuse my ignorance but could you explain further? Thank you so much!


----------



## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

jeweltx said:


> Please excuse my ignorance but could you explain further? Thank you so much!



Suppose you are monogramming a shower curtain for someone and it has three letters that exceed your frame. If each individual letter will fit in the frame, you can take careful measurements and mark the curtain for each hooping. Then you hoop and embroider each letter individually. It is a pain, but it can be done.


----------



## ikkuh (Apr 8, 2010)

jeweltx said:


> Ikkuh have you compared the 650 to the stitch quality of a single head Tajima, Melco, Barudan or Toyota? Also does anyone know the maximum monogram size I could do with a 650? Thanks so much for the opinions!


The quality of stitching is the same compared to the other machines.


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Gotcha! For larger monograms that would be a pain. lol  Have you considered doing a utube video on it. lol 
Glad to know the stitch quality is as good as a commercial machine. So it mainly boils down to speed, sewing field size, service, amount of needles and portability for differences. Kudos to all of you that figure out the perfect machine for your business needs.


----------



## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

Personally in hindsight, I should have bitten the bullet and gotten the Tajima first instead of the PR-600. And if you compare it to the pricer PR1000, I DEFINITELY would bite the bullet and get a true commercial machine. There isn't that much difference in price between the two.

But I knew nothing about embroidery and didn't realize how much it would take off when I started.


----------



## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

I have seen more than one claim from Barudan owners that their machines have a more accurate pantograph and that they do small lettering better than other machines.

Anybody know of an apples-to-apples comparison that has been done? I would be particulary interested in a Barudan, Tajima, Toyota (9000 or 9100) comparison.

Any thoughts or links would be great.

-James


----------



## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

When I was shopping for my machine I got a stitch out from each company with small lettering. Barudan's small lettering was so much better than any of the other machines. It was a big part of my decision to buy Barudan.


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Thanks Jane! I had read that about Barudan! Which model did you decide to get?

My concern was service--is your Barudan rep in your local area or do they have to travel from out of state or city? That was a perk for the Brother bc I could take the machine in to the shop myself. 

Do most people tend to under buy for their first machine or over buy?


----------



## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

I bought the Elite Pro, single-head, 15 needle, bought in 2004.
Tech support is just a phone call away, but I really haven't needed much help.
I am in Houston and there is a tech in Louisiana who travels to Houston regularly so if I need someone he is available. 
There is also a tech in San Antonio if I need him.


----------



## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

I wonder how much of the quality differance was the digitizing and setup?

I was hoping we could get an apples-to-apples comparison by somebody offering a DST file with small lettering and owners of different machines could stitch this and show the results?

-James Leonard


----------



## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

I am not sure why anyone above the home user would get a PR1000. For 10% more you can get a much faster machine. I would do a PR650 or upgrade to something faster with a bigger sewing field.


----------



## digitizewedo (Nov 2, 2010)

The difference between most home based business machines versus an industrial machine is basically the wear and tear of the machine, its like buying a printer, if you want a printer to print 500 sheets a month your every day home printer is okay, but if you plan to print 5000-15000 sheets a month buy a big boy or stay home,. same goes for embroidery machines, the home market , home based semi pro-fessional machines have good quality , but how much can you run the machines.. most home machines are made of plastic cases, smaller hoop sizes etc. where as most industrial machines are built to last.. I paid 5k for a used brother industrial machine that is 1992 , when i was looking at the PR-600 and I glad I went with a industrial machine. as I would have killed the Brother PrR600 in the first year, as I have stitched over 4000 items in the last 2 years.. 

Do your home work..


----------



## NavyGuy (May 26, 2011)

I'm new to the forum and don't have the the experiance with sales that most of you seem to have. That said, I have had a PR-1000 since they came out and nobody is mentioning what I thought was one of its stand out features, the video camera. you can be off on you hooping and adjust to perfectly align while in the machine. Adjustments can be made by tenths of a millimeter and rotation by 1 degree. It can also use the Innov "snowman" to perfectly align your design automatically. I'm not impressed by the LED system but ten needles and the video camera made it worth it to me.


----------



## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

I have seen the PR1000 but not had a demo on it. That said, the commercial machines have lasers and on my Melco I can put a laser on two points and center the design between them about 6 different ways (don't think I'll ever need more than 1 way though).

The PR1000 is not what you want if you are embroidering 10's to 100's of things every day. If for no other reason than how much extra time it will take over a commercial machine.


----------



## sassystitches (Sep 16, 2010)

Posylane said:


> I am not sure why anyone above the home user would get a PR1000. For 10% more you can get a much faster machine. I would do a PR650 or upgrade to something faster with a bigger sewing field.


Well said. I would agree. Price point on the PR1000 seems way to steep and from dealer to dealer you could end up with a commercial machine for the same price or only slightly more especially when you figure in all the extras that usually come with a commercial machine. As an owner of the PR-650 I chose it because of price point.


----------



## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

digitizewedo said:


> The difference between most home based business machines versus an industrial machine is basically the wear and tear of the machine, its like buying a printer, if you want a printer to print 500 sheets a month your every day home printer is okay, but if you plan to print 5000-15000 sheets a month buy a big boy or stay home,. same goes for embroidery machines, the home market , home based semi pro-fessional machines have good quality , but how much can you run the machines.. most home machines are made of plastic cases, smaller hoop sizes etc. where as most industrial machines are built to last.. I paid 5k for a used brother industrial machine that is 1992 , when i was looking at the PR-600 and I glad I went with a industrial machine. as I would have killed the Brother PrR600 in the first year, as I have stitched over 4000 items in the last 2 years..
> 
> Do your home work..




I don't know if I agree with this. The PR Series are built to last also. The only problem is to get 40 million stitches on one make take 2 years instead of one year on the true commercial machine.


----------



## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

I have a PR-650 and to be honest never have used anything else to be able to compare it with anything else. However I am very happy with the quality of the stitches, and frankly can't see how they could be much better. Additionally and more importantly my customers are very satisfied, and that is what is most important. For myself, I am just a small business and the PR-650 was the perfect fit.

If you wanted to look for the downsides, the down sides as I see it are not the quality of the stitches at all but instead would be things like smaller maximum sewing areas, only six needles, and as mentioned already the speed. 

If you have a smaller business like myself, none of these are a problem at all and I doubt it would be worth the additional cost to buy a bigger, faster machine. I simply wouldn't get a return on that additional investment.

If however you are going to be running the machine all day long, I can easily see where it would be worth investing in a larger, faster machine.

So IMO it is not really about whether if the 650 is as good, but instead is it the right machine for the individual.


----------



## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

> However I am very happy with the quality of the stitches, and frankly can't see how they could be much better. Additionally and more importantly my customers are very satisfied, and that is what is most important. For myself, I am just a small business and the PR-650 was the perfect fit.


In general I don't think there is a differance in the stitch quality between the commercial machines and the Brother's/Janome's.


----------



## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Posylane said:


> In general I don't think there is a differance in the stitch quality between the commercial machines and the Brother's/Janome's.


 
I agree, I think the most important thing is the digitizing quality. I recently did a job for a customer, and it had some extremely small and very specific detail in it. It came out great using the PR-650. My customer said they came out much better then they had even expected.


----------



## lowriderchris (Feb 26, 2011)

ive got 2 x Pr650's and a PR620 I stitch 1200 large items a month and all 3 machines are on 17hrs a day 7 days a week they are so easy to use, I initially purchased the 620 and when looking for a couple more machines I looked at all the commercial brands but nothing tickled my fancy like the brothers ive got 3 dealers locally for servicing and I get them serviced once a year and generally have no problems at all (apart from one im about the post seperately lol)


----------



## jeweltx (Mar 26, 2011)

Lowriderchris--very helpful to know! I was curious how "large" the items are you are stitching? If you are doing 1200 a month then I assume the large items are easy to set up and stitch?


----------



## lowriderchris (Feb 26, 2011)

generally easy to setup and stitch yes because we use the same designs just add names and date of births to the original designs, most designs take around 40 mins some more some less


----------



## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I have 2 pr600's that run4-5 days a week and will be 5 hrs old this fall. They have never broke down and if they did I have a tech here in town - they still sew as nice as the first day I got them.I sew everything from delicate fabrics to carhart- they fit in my sewing area perfectly only thing I would change is I would love to have 10-12 needles instead of 6


----------



## faye1957 (Apr 4, 2011)

I actually bought the commercial machine (15 needle) first but recently purchased the PR650 as an addition. Great to be able to use both software programs and multiple jobs but the stitching is the same. It really is the design that is the most important issue for beginners


----------



## digitizewedo (Nov 2, 2010)

I looked at both before buying my brother industrial machine used.. I was looking at the PR600 prior to purchasing my Brother BAS 415 .. I have access at my full time job to Janome MB4 , Brother PR6000 a Neo2 and a TFMX c1501 .. I like the size of the home machine , but I sew on carpet, and large jacket packs and the arms don't hold the weight as much as the neo2 or the TFMX however after taking the PR600 home for a month. I ran it thru its paces and felt that it couldn't handle what I wanted to sew on.. Sew I purchased a used brother machine, I would really like a Tajima TMEX basically a NEO with the TFMX screen, for the portability and strong tough engine and color screen , price was a deterrent my brother was $5k and Neo TMEX is $20k .. so way out your odds, the PR650 or even the PR1000 are great start of machines and you may not need more if all you do is monograms. 

Like one person said above its time.. your time.. If you need to sew out I sew out a lot of designs that are between 50k to 100k stitches, take a job that has 69520 stitches in it, basically 69k and add 33 trims to it , and have to 12 of these .. the sew out @ true 800 rpm is 1:25 hours , x 12 is 15 hours.. I only sew at night after my day job so from 7-11 or so , so basically 2 a night which takes me basically a week to sew out. However when I ran the same job on a PR-600 @ the max speed it took longer like 1.58 hours to sew 1 so basically 1 per night. which lead to the job taking me over a week. By the time you hoop etc.. out , I also need something that could take sewing on carpet ... here are some examples of what I do... 

But base it on what you need to do... a 5" monogram will take 2 letters will take approximately 45 minutes to do on the PR-600 the 650 is a tiiny bit faster not much.. 

the same job on a Neo 2 or 25 minutes, so if you have to do a complete towel set than its going to cost you time. its your time, vs how much you can afford for a machine. So if you plan to sew occasionally.. the lower speed lower cost machine will work, if you plan to be sewing quiet a bit or large jobs then the time will pay for the faster machine done the road.. You can always buy this machine pay it off and as your needs increase purchase a second machine, as with the price of a PR-650 aroun $9000 , a Neo 2 will set you back $17000, so you can almost buy to PR-650 , however the Neo has 15 colors and has a sewing field of 19.5" x 14"depending on options.. 

Do your research


----------

