# Should I quit?



## Toffee_Monkey (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Guys

I have run an on-line-t-shirt store for over two years now in the UK. Lately things have been really tough. I think the end may be near in terms of keeping the stores on-line. 

I have a webstore and eBay store in the UK, and I draw in sales mainly from the UK, but I do generate a few sales from Europe and some from the US. I have never been great with marketing, and SEO is something that has completely eluded me. I have tried believe me, but I just haven't had heaps of cash to throw at it so I have found it really tough getting noticed.

I solely run the business doing all the designs, uploading to the website/eBay, then printing/packing and dispatching. 

I do all of the above through a Roland GX 24 cutter and a Stahls heat press with CorelDraw and Photoshop.

I use a UK wholesaler for t-shirts, and print on demand. When I get an order I order a blank shirt, print the design, press it and send it. A cheap cost effective way to do business I think. I average around 100-120 sales a month. Around 100 through eBay, the rest through the website. 

To cut a long story short I earn around $1000 a month in profit. This would be ok if it was just a part time home based business, but this is my full time job and I have a wife, a mortgage and 2 young baby daughters and we are really struggling now. It was always my dream to work for myself. I tried to use my own passion of climbing and biking and turn it into a business, but I have found it very tough. The t-shirt market on-line seems to be very saturated now. 

I just don't know how to grow my business any more. Based on my current sales volumes I feel that I should pack it in and just take the sites off line and sell my equipment and find a routine 9-5 somewhere. This isn't what I want, but at the end of the day I need to put bread on the table. At the moment I am barely placing a slice on the table never mind a loaf. 

If anyone has any words of wisdom or advice on how to ride out what is a very bleak outlook I would be very grateful. I am very close to pulling the plug. Some people think I should and that if I haven't made a success of it now after two years then it is not going to happen. Just don't know what to do guys. Totally demoralised and feel all my initial passion and enthusiasm draining away. Sad in England.


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## DogPound71 (Jul 7, 2009)

I would not give up on my dream. I know I would not be able to run my own business 24/7 , I do have a full time job that I love, I have two degrees my first is in Graphic Design but I could not find a job, so 10 nyears later I ended up doing x-rays and mammography. Now I can dedicate my evenings and weekends designing and selling my artwork. I have a 3 year old daughter as well and she can get in the way but you woek on what you have, If you sell your dream you will feel defeated. Find at least a part-time job see if that will make ends meet more and then if you want to convert to full-time but still doing weekend work on you t-shirts do that. If you have old customers there still be with you. Go to small cosignment stores and show your work to them, Wear your work with your business number and email address in an artful way to get people to notice you unique style. People are into the unusal (sp) styles and if you have friends make them a custom shirt to wear to help you out. This is a weekend adventure try it and think about what is you happiness is worth. Try to give up on something you worked upon and then letting it go-- all I see is you being very depress nd your wife and child will notice your unhappiness. Yes go find and get a job but hold on to you dream. Listen I live in a single apartment in the US, with little space with a energetic 3 year old child, and I am two modialties- Heat transfers and screenprinting. I am going to make it work for me. Do not throw in the towel just go get a clean one.


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## PrintMonkey (Jul 15, 2006)

Event sales..
There is a bike ride/event almost every weekend somewhere within a few hours of your home.
Just doing a quick web search for "Bike events in the UK" pulled up a lot of links.
Something to checkout.

M


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Hey Ellis, first thing I'd like to say is hang in there. I can't imagine what you may be going through but do hope it can work. Like you I'm working on building up what is my passion and dream and want to see it succeed for others. I would hate to have to make a decision about stopping the "dream" because I think once you ignite it and start living it having to abandon the dream for something which may not satisfy would be very tough.

Ok, now, onto some ideas. I had a look at your site and think it is pretty well laid out. You're into biking and climbing and thats what your t-shirts are all about so you have a defined niche which makes targeting easier. PrintMonkey bet me to it by mentioning cycling events which I would say is a must..You may have already tried but I really think it would be a good way to find some potential customers. Why not send some biking t-shirts to some cyclists? 

Another idea might be local gyms or places where there are climbing walls. Most gyms have shops where they sell swimming gear etc so why not try strike a deal with some to see if they'd sell some of your tees.

Now, to the online realm. I've seen (and fanned) your fanpage and see you have 200+ fans there (and 200+ on twitter). I would suggest trying to work the online angle a bit more as you can so easily find your niche. For example on facebook here is fanpage Toffee Monkey T-Shirts | Facebook for cycling with almost 20,000 fans..why not track down the owner and sponsor a give away or competiton. You might have to give away 2 tshirts or whatever but very good chance of getting a return I think. You could also use that competition to funnel some of those cycling enthusiasts to your fanpage so you can continually engage and interact with them - subtly keeping your product in their mind for when they do want to buy something..You can also do the same thing in the climbing niche..

Content wise for your fanpage again I think it is a nice niche. You can link to cycling videos and give updates on who is winning certain races here and there..not all of your fans might not be into cycling so one idea could be to have an ultra niched fanpage just for those who like cycling - although this may be over the top. Ultimately though content wise I think you should be able to find something engaging for yours fans from youtube etc and keep your company in potential customers minds..

Then, there is the machine that is twitter. Find biking magazines, professional cyclists, big names in the cyling world etc on twitter and follow those who are following them. These people already like cycling and who knows might want to get themselves a cyling t-shirt some day..again you can do giveaways on twitter which will help get the brand name out..And, again you can do the exact same thing for the climbing niche (and scuba, paddling and all the others niches that your t-shirts cater for). 

Now, going back to your site briefly. I think it is well laid out but when you scroll down all of the t-shirts that are presented are grey. If possible may have some more colours so that visually it'll keep whoever is scrolling excited. From an SEO standpoint I had a quick look and couldn't find any h1 tags which you should include I think. Also, the tile that says "Welcome to Toffee Monkey" etc is an image as opposed to spider friendly text. If you want to try beef up ranking in google you should include some keywords in a bit of blurb about your shop. I have some more onsite seo tips in my link below rather than listing them all here..

From an off-site SEO point of view google isn't very aware of your web presence due to your low google page rank. Page rank being how important google deems your site to be. To increase this you should try get in touch with bloggers and ask them to write about your t-shirts. These could be bloggers who strictly write about t-shirts are perhaps a thought leader in the field of cycling might like a t-shirt and give it a positve review in a blog post. The benefits of this are two fold - 1. you'll get more back links to your site which will help with PR and search results 2. you might get some direct traffic to your site again from people who are highly targeted. Once you get a mention submit it to social bookmarking sites so it is exposed to more people for potentially more traffic, put it on your fanpage, tweet about it - grind through the social media gears to generate some hype..

I brought up blogs there so might as well finish with it. I couldn't find a link to your blog from your site so am assuming you don't have one (if I am wrong I apologise) and you should. By maintaining a blog you can link back to your site which will keep google happy, it beefs up your web presence and can help build trust with some borderline customers - show them your passion for cycling and climbing. Content could be easy enough to create as like your fanpage you could pull videos straight from youtube and say why you like it and link back to your website via keywords of your choosing. And then, like with blog mentions you may receive from other bloggers, you can put them on social bookmarking sites, tweet about them etc - keeping the buzz going and eyeballs on Toffee Monkey until the customer decides to buy..

Anyway, its long and rambling but I hope it helps you in someway, if you have any questions feel free to ask..really like..most people on these forums have the same dreams somewhat and I really hope you can keep it going and end up with a fine baguette on your table and a smile..keep on truckin' and good luck..


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## jobbinchung (May 15, 2009)

Hey Ellis, keep walking. I am sure ti will be better tomorrow.

And Rob has given detailed and keypoint suggestion. Thank you very much also, as I also have a dream like, and I learned so much from you.


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## ratdaddy (Sep 25, 2009)

Read what Rob said again. Because thats what I was going to say (sorta)....hahahah
If your bringing in 1000 a month with what you are doing....do more. More designs, more avenues of sales. Build another website with a different approach. If you double what you are doing maybe you could raise your income to 1800 a month, and so on and so forth.


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## Toffee_Monkey (Nov 14, 2006)

ladyumbrella said:


> Hey Ellis, first thing I'd like to say is hang in there. I can't imagine what you may be going through but do hope it can work. Like you I'm working on building up what is my passion and dream and want to see it succeed for others. I would hate to have to make a decision about stopping the "dream" because I think once you ignite it and start living it having to abandon the dream for something which may not satisfy would be very tough.
> 
> Ok, now, onto some ideas. I had a look at your site and think it is pretty well laid out. You're into biking and climbing and thats what your t-shirts are all about so you have a defined niche which makes targeting easier. PrintMonkey bet me to it by mentioning cycling events which I would say is a must..You may have already tried but I really think it would be a good way to find some potential customers. Why not send some biking t-shirts to some cyclists?
> 
> ...



WOW! Thank you for your response. There is a lot of useful SEO stuff there for me to get my teeth stick into. I will respond more this evening. I am currently slaving away over my heat press. But in answer to one of your questions, no I don't have a blog. Doh! Maybe that is something I need to address straight away. Thanks to the other posters so far too. It is good to have a good cry sometimes and get some positive words of advice from people in the same line of business.


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## Dazzla (Jan 29, 2010)

This is a great thread for guys starting up too. Thanks for the ideas.
d


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## allhamps (Mar 15, 2007)

Try and stick with it. As stated in an earlier response, try maybe a part time job and see if things can work out. I currently have a full time day job, and do what you do to with the online store. It's tough, but I REALLY want to quit my day job and do my shirts, but financially it's not feasible right now. However, my shirts are not just income, but like you said, my passion and my dream. I can't imagine not having them.

Try something new. You already have all the equipment, try some rhinestones/rhinestuds. Everyone is in to bling right now. A few cycling shirts with some bling might just be enough of an eyecatcher to perk up some interest. There's a really cheap, but good rhinestone software out there that I read about on the Forum, Funtime Rhinestones, that might work.

You'd be surprised. I've gotten basketball teams, football teams, softball teams, and recently, even an adult kickball team to add some bling to there items.

Keep hope alive!!!


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## Infinatees (Apr 8, 2010)

While I am new to this industry I am not new to business. If you are making a profit then you are doing something right. It sounds like you may need to partner with someone that may have a little more experience (and possibly some cash) to target towards your marketing efforts. Clearly you may need to find a way to earn additional income with another job while you figure out how to maximize your revenue potential with your t-shirt business. Never give up your dreams just find a way to make them your reality


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## Hard Luck (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow - what a great collection of advice here! Thanks everyone


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## artchick (Mar 15, 2010)

That was well written . This site is so great for a newbie and really gives us hope THANKS!!!


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## Progeny (Jul 28, 2007)

Stick with it Ellis, contact local climbing/cycling shops and try sell your t-shirts wholesale/sale or return. You have the equipment so why not do workwear/promo stuff, contact local small businesses and quote for workwear with their logo. Local schools is another, the sweatshirts the kids need to buy can be quite expensive with the embroidery so do some with vinyl, i did my sons school uniform and got orders just from that.


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## dmob (Oct 1, 2007)

Ellis,

Rob, Lee and others have given you some excellent advice, so I won't repeat what they have said. 
If you do try to contact companies for providing work wear here is a useful post regarding emailing them http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-marketing/t74943.html

On a personal note, I particularly like the design of the Toffee Monkey new logo shirt.
I would prefer it with just the Toffee Monkey type and without the toffee-rific bit,
just my preference. I would make this design more prominent on your site.

Good luck

David


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Hi Toffee Monkey! I want to give you a big hug.  I'm impressed by what you've done already in building your business and running it 2 yrs thus far. It is _because_ of my 8-5 job that I'm not yet as far ahead as you, though I'm working to change that now. LadyUmbrella and others have given some awesome advice! I'll offer some as well.

First - It's not uncommon that Entrepreneur types will start a business, only to find that:



It's not what they thought it would be
They're not in the role they want in that business
The income desired is not showing itself
It's "forced" work that the owner is unhappy about because they're telling themselves, they have made this investment of time, effort and money and this damn thing better fly.
 Reality is, this business, like any other, is not ideal for everyone and that is absolutely OK. It is also ok to CHANGE when one avenue is not working for you. 

Keep this in mind too: Many Entrepreneurs start and dissolve a handful of businesses before they ever find "the right one." This business you have now may be a start for something else you're supposed to do, or will really find your sweet spot with. 

Let's talk about this thing called "Passion." I read this in your initial post:



> I tried to use my own passion of climbing and biking and turn it into a business, but I have found it very tough.


Given your passion is climbing and biking, what about selling tees ties into those passions? Did you want to provide apparel to the climbing and biking enthusiasts/hobbyists? You do not have to answer this publicly if you don't want, but I want you to think about this. Sounds like you need to re-work your business to better mesh with your passion.

Suggestions:



*Teach*. With what you know in running a t-shirt apparel business, you have a lot of information to share to people like myself - at a cost. I only wished I could pin down Johnny Earle for 5 hours to ask loads of questions! Reality is, he's too busy for me but someone like you is more accessible. Offer to teach at UK t-shirt seminars, partner with a local, small college or host a class yourself at a library. You can also teach, for a fee, online. Use your products and skills to show others what they can make. Josh Ellsworth on the forums (and who work for Stahls' now) may be a great person for you to speak with. I recall the days that he had his own site with videos teaching others about CAD cut designs. Now, he's teaching classes for SGIA, ISA and other seminars, online AND in-person. If you do not desire to teach about starting and running a t-shirt business, teach about biking and climbing in the area(s) where you excel the most, or know the most about. For example, do you know where to best climb in your area/state in the summer months, the best climbing clothes to wear in the winter months, the best bike tires to buy for hilly terrain, and so forth? Or, can you teach others to climb?
 


*Host Events*. Host local biking and/or climbing tournaments, events or gatherings. Do something to engage people at the gathering and earn income in the process. You can also use this arena to sell your wares!



 *Hire A Salesperson*. Hire someone to do your selling for your existing business and focus on using your strengths. There are some people who will do this with no pay (or no pay for a certain time) though you may have to be creative about finding that person/people.



*Offer accessories for bikers/climbers*. Consider offering products for bikers/climbers, such as moisture wicking tees and toss in accessories such as decorated water bottles, shades, helmet decals, etc. You can cut vinyl for these accessories and apply them yourself.
 


*Produce & sell custom t-shirts on demand*. Create tees for schools, organizations, events, parties, etc. Doing so can help bring income when you're not selling your branded tees.
About the blog option - Blogs are great only if you (or someone working for your) can babysit them heavily. A boring blog is a disappointment to followers, and not posting in 3 days could be seen as abandonment by some. 

I am anti-blog if you do not have the time to dedicate. There are many successful and high earning t-shirt businesses online that do not have a blog. I say, proceed with caution in blogging if you are stretched for time.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do moving forward.


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## Toffee_Monkey (Nov 14, 2006)

Since I posted the thread six days ago, I have now found the services of another designer who is coming on-board to help out with the designs. I intend on taking on-board a lot of the advice offered in the above posts. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read this thread and to respond personally with some excellent advice. If it can be of use to others in a similar position to me then that is just great too. In today's day and age there are so many bad immoral people out there so it gives me renewed hope in humanity to find genuinely nice people on t-shirt forums who offer up their time and advice for no personal gain whatsoever other than knowing that they are helping out some guy in England with his t-shirt business. 

I will keep my dream alive with some renewed hope and optimism now. Will let you know how its going.

Eternally grateful.

Ellis J x
Toffee Monkey


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Great to hear Ellis, onward and upward and the best of luck..Rob..


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## outrageoustees (Feb 25, 2010)

As a fellow rock climber(doing a climbing-related t-shirt shop), I empathize with you. Everyone says climbers are cheap(won't pay decent prices for t-shirts), but demographics prove otherwise: We tend to be fairly highly educated(college/PhD), employed in professional fields with US$ incomes around 75K average, and most of us do not have kids. All this amounts to what should be a pretty decent disposable income, and we DO spend money! Look at our shiny(expensive) gear, ropes, tents, down jackets, climber's cars....

Yet when it comes to buying a damned t-shirt from a fellow climber, people balk. It irks me!

Some promotional ideas I have used are:
- "Loss Leader" - I choose one item from my collection(which I rotate frequently) and sell it with no additional markup. This can be found in my shop under "Item of the Week Or So." I sell through CafePress, so unfortunately my base price is high, but as you have your own presses, you might really be able to offer a good loss leader. The purpose of this is to get people to keep popping on to your shop to see what you have on offer.... You can use the item as a frequent Twitter post, too, announcing each time you rotate a new item.

- Stickers of your designs - I make "mini" stickers that cost less than usual sized ones, and send them out as giveaways at events, along with 2 or 3 t-shirts to be raffled off(climbing workshops, film festivals, or if you get enough blog/Twitter/Facebook fans, you can run your own giveaway)

- My favorite is my condom giveaway, which I came up with a few months ago(here is a link to the promo: ClimbAddict: The Great ClimbAddict Pro-Motion and Booty Giveaway!

I had an order of condoms with the package printed with my logo and a tagline of "If you're not free soling, use protection!" (climbers will know the double entendres, though some here on T-shirts forum may not). People really thought this was funny and the views to my website increased quite a bit while I ran the promo. I did garner some sales as well, but the main purpose was to create brand recognition. The condoms are good for climbers because of the "protection" entendre, or "rubber" or a host of other funny taglines one can come up with. AND it is a giveaway that is cheaper than many others!(I got them at 35 cents/pc.). I intend to set up a booth at my local climbing film festival in September, where I will have some of my shirts samples for people to look at, along with my laptop available so they can place orders. The condoms, along with mini stickers, will be available as pick up giveaways for those who stop to my booth. Plus I will donate 2-3 t-shirts to be used as raffle prizes during the intermission.

Just an idea as to how I have tried getting my name out there in the past. It really does take a lot of work, and persistence, unfortunately. Good luck to you!


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## skinner1691 (May 1, 2007)

Since you have the cutter already,why not call on some pubs to sell them logo shirts,I have about 30 Bars (american for pubs) that I sell log shirts to. What I do is do a black logo on a white shirt and take it to the sales call, the owner sees wht the shirt will look like . I have not lost a sale when I do this. Selling you own shirts on line i greate. but you have the tools to do so much more. Get out on the road and call on the stores around you see if they yould like logo shirts. You can sell just one if that all they want,but from my point of view you have a bright year ahead of you. From America with good luck


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