# Trouble with Thermoflex Plus!



## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

Alright. I pressed a name/number onto a motocross jersey (this one to be exact) this past week and all appeared fine. Blurry cellular picture right after press. Wore it the next day in a race(rain all day/soaking wet) and washed it a day later(warm water). The vinyl is a black background with neon green layered over the top. After washing the design of the jersey shows through the green lettering  The jersey is 100% Polyester, I pressed the black for 20 sec, green for 20 sec, then a 10 sec press after peeling the backing from the green. I've seen others using the same material and having no transparency after washing. And the weird thing is, it is really only showing through the green, the black seems to be fine(but the black is under the green...). Does anybody know what the issue may be? 

Thanks!


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Thermoflex Plus is not made for 100% poly... it will bleed through.

Even though the data sheet says it will work on Poly... if you read halfway down is states that dye migration is possible.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Also, when you are doing multiple layers, the timing is different. There are instructions for multlayering on the sheet,


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## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't think their 2010(when I got started with TF-P) spec sheet had that disclaimer  Do you have a recommendation for 100% poly? Would the SUBLIBLOCK be the way to go? It specifically states it is made to prevent dye migration. Could it possibly be used UNDER thermoflex plus?


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

wheels1758 said:


> Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't think their 2010(when I got started with TF-P) spec sheet had that disclaimer  Do you have a recommendation for 100% poly? Would the SUBLIBLOCK be the way to go? It specifically states it is made to prevent dye migration. Could it possibly be used UNDER thermoflex plus?


I use Thermoflex Sport, not a huge fan of the feel or look, BUT it does block the dye migration. Have not used Subliblock becfore.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

wheels1758 said:


> Would the SUBLIBLOCK be the way to go?


Yes, here is a comparison picture... I have no idea what was used for the top portion but Imprintables Spectra Sub Stop was used for 2nd image. We just got a sample from Specialty Materials of the Subliblock and will do a 3rd test underneath and come back to post the results

Note: Sub Stop only comes in White

Subliblock - White, Red, Orange, Yellow and Blue


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## HTW (Aug 25, 2010)

what are you getting showing through the green? the texture of the jersey or the color of the jersey?

The subliblock is a great material to work with when it is need. but if the black is layered underneath the green im wondering what you are seeing coming through.
texture of the jersey or another color?


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## Flint54 (Oct 16, 2008)

On Poly use ThermoFlex Xtra, we use 315 for temp Firm Pressure and preheat pad well, press material to remove moisture, press first layer 3-5 sec then peel backing, press 2nd layer 3-5 sec remove backing final press with teflon sheet for 10 seconds. Follow all washing instructions.

[media]http://www.specialtymaterials.com/filesSite/pdf/2ThermoFlexXtra.pdf[/media]

[media]http://www.versatranz.com/_documents/Application%20Instructions/V-Cut/ThermoFlex%20Xtra%20Instructions.pdf[/media]


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## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

FatKat Printz said:


> Yes, here is a comparison picture...


Has that shirt been through the wash yet? I'd like to see how it looks over some time. And do you by chance have any jersey's that you've done with Spectra Sub Stop? I did notice a lack of color choices with Subliblock, which is why I was wondering if it would layer with Thermoflex Plus.



HTW said:


> the texture of the jersey or the color of the jersey?


It shows the black stripes of the jersey linked in the first post. And if you look at the cell phone picture you can almost see the black design showing through the green. I'll upload a picture later when I can get my hands on the jersey.


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## HTW (Aug 25, 2010)

Thermoflex will layer on top of subliblock. That is very odd that the jersey is having dye migration through the full layer of black and green. A better detailed image would be interesting to see.


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## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

Here are the pictures of the current state of the jerseys. I also included pictures of a white/black thermoflex plus application to the same style jersey. It surprises me that the white on black shows less of the jersey design than the green/black. The green is a neon color, but I think the material is basically the same as the normal colors.

Side-by-side:









Black/Green:









Black/Green close-up:









Black/White:









Black/White close-up:









And just so you guys don't think I'm an all-out FAIL, something that actually worked!


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

The problem you're experiencing is called dye migration. Motocross Jerseys are typically fully sublimated which always equals dyes migrating when their activated through heat from your press. A quick way to see if the jerseys is sublimated is to look at the inside, if its white and the outside is a printed color such as that pictured, then its sublimated. Most standard heat transfer films while opaque will not block dyes - this includes black. The reason you don't see the colors of the jersey on the black color is because the black color masks it, however they still come through. The only way to address this issue is to purchase a material that is suited for blocking dye migration. Typically this is done through the use of a metallic layer in the material or another handful of technologies that manufacturers won't publicly divulge. 

If you use a true foil metallic material as a base layer it would work or you can purchase the special sublimation blocking film. 

Another way, is to apply at a lower heat and time so you don't activate the dyes, but rest assured the customer will be bringing the jersey back after drying it on high heat or leaving it sit in a hot car.

As for polyesters in general, those not fully sublimated, they too sometimes are unstable and can migrate. This may vary from manufacturing lot of fabric so it is always advised to conduct a test garment and dry before doing the entire job.

Most will want to use a film without dye blocking capabilities as it is softer and less expensive...so its up to you whether you use all dye blocking materials or test for each production run.

Obviously if its a dark color film than there is no risk, but if a light color such as white, yellow or a neon shade is required than migration is a possibility. Typically garments that are shades red are the worst offenders.

Hope this helps and sorry about your first hand experience.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

I know that is not what you were wanting, but the white numbers actually look pretty cool!


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I was thinking the same thing. Kind of cool looking.


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## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

thutch15 said:


> I know that is not what you were wanting, but the white numbers actually look pretty cool!





jean518 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Kind of cool looking.


Thanks guys! The white doesn't look too bad, but I was going for a more opaque color. The green just looks awful because of the splotchy colors that occur from the texture of the jersey 



JoshEllsworth said:


> If you use a true foil metallic material as a base layer it would work or you can purchase the special sublimation blocking film.


Will these materials have some sort of fine print that will specify whether or not they contain sublimation blocking properties?



JoshEllsworth said:


> Obviously if its a dark color film than there is no risk, but if a light color such as white, yellow or a neon shade is required than migration is a possibility. Typically garments that are shades red are the worst offenders.


Would it be sufficient to use a single layer of sub blocking material with another standard film layered over the top? It would make sense to me that the first layer would block the sublimation from penetrating to the second layer of material.


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## HTW (Aug 25, 2010)

I would try the subliblock if you were to stay with these jerseys. It is jsut amazing that the color is also coming through the black as well.


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## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

Got some samples from Stahls, and did a couple tests last night. Figured I'd upload some pictures to let everyone see my results. After pressing this jersey (yep, I'm using the same jersey that had the terrible dye migration, like those "controlled" experiments they used to stress so much in science class!) I'll admit first off that once I got the material I ran the design through my cutter without first remembering to mirror it! OOPS!  But since it was just a test procedure, I figured it was best not to waste materials. So I just pressed it on backwards, so now I can read it in a mirror  Both of these tests are about half of the original size.

Using Stahls' CAD-CUT Thermo Film, White on black, Press Black at 330 for 2 seconds, peel hot, press white 8 seconds, peel warm. I ran this through the wash on COLD and threw it in the drier just to see what would happen on "Regular Dry" setting for cotton (I had some other clothes in there). Without further ado...





































This is the CAD-CUT Fashion Film, "Prism" Color, Pressed at 320 for 15 seconds, Peel hot. This was done before the wash and dry as well.




























As you can see, the tests went very well! The Thermo-Film is fairly thick, so it seems like it will hold up well. The Fashion-Film is very thin. You can barely feel it when you run your hand across it. Overall, both are a great improvement over the original stuff! Now time to start converting my stock, good thing I don't have a huge inventory


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## wheels1758 (Jul 23, 2010)

Here is a test application of the Thermo-Film under Premium Plus. I haven't washed the garment yet, but I'll post a picture after that is complete. Top two are just premium plus, as I wanted to see a comparison of how they show up without a background(in case customers are interested in a single color application). As you can see, even without washing they show through. Wonder if there is a "Post your product tests" thread anywhere on these forums...










EDIT: I did forget to mention that the Premium Plus does not have a sticky backing, which can be nice since it wont stick when you are trying to line it up, but then again, it wont stick when you are trying to line it up! I like knowing my design isn't going to move around when I drop the press on it, and I don't have any of that special tape since everything I have used before has had a sticky backing. The backing also is a bit "foggy" which makes it semi difficult to line up (especially over the black since it is tough to see the black on black in some spots).


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