# Bobbin tension with Anti-Backslash spring



## Frienzy (Mar 13, 2012)

Hi!
I've got a issues with my bobbin tensions on Barudan.
I can't get a proper stiching on Barudan with bobbin tension set with a standard drop test. It seem to be way too tight and i have to set my top thread tensions extremely tight to get even split of top thread / bobbin / top thread on the backside of satin stich.
So I've figured that it could be the case of bobbin thread tension changing as I put it in machine as I have my bobbins with Anti-Backslash Springs.
If i loosen the bobbin tension so it drops slowly as I hold it for a drop test I've found it sews correctly.
It's funny as I have no problems with my SWF machines with same Anti-Backslash Bobbins and tension set with drop test and they sew perfect with no extreme tension on top thread.
Anyone had something like that on Barudans ? Is it machine specific or should all of bobbin tensions be the same on all machines ?
Thank you.


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## purplecheese (May 22, 2011)

I had a similar problem with my Barudan, I was using the bobbins that came with the machine and they were driving me crazy with the tensions changing constantly as the bobbin was used up. I switched to Madiera bobbins and my problems went away.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

we use the filtec magnetics with no spring and it works great in our swfs


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Not sure which bobbins you are running but the anti backlash spring is only needed with metal sided bobbins. Leaving it in with paper sided bobbins or with sideless bobbins is not only unnecessary but causes problems as these bobbins are made wider. When you snap the bobbin into the hook, the combined thickness of prewound bobbin and spring make the tensions go sky high.

And I have to say, I'd throw the drop test out with the backlash springs. Get a Towa guage. Cheap investment that will give you dead on repeatable tensions.

With the increased sewing speeds of modern machines, thread control is crucial to both good results and production friendly embroidery.


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## lrsbranding (Aug 6, 2011)

We have the same problem with our Barudan. I think I've lost 10 years trying to figure out a solution. Not only that but it will spontaneously loop on the top side.


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## Frienzy (Mar 13, 2012)

Liberty,
yes those are metal bobbins, but as you said it seems that anti-backslash spring makes that extra thickness and as you put it in hook compresses a little - and no drop test will help you in this case. I wonder if that towa tension meter will simulate this situation accurately...
because as I said on my other SWF machines I dont have this issue.
Irsbranding,
yes looping on top thats a bobbin getting tight.
I wonder if you can measure the bobbin tension with upper thread tension meter while it's in the hook? What the reading should be in that case...


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## lrsbranding (Aug 6, 2011)

Frienzy, Thanks for that. I had no idea looping on top could be from tight bobbin. Thought it was all in the upper tension and take up spring.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I guess I have to ask, why are you running metal bobbins? Are you winding your own? I have to say, the absolute only time we run a metal bobbin is when we have to get the backside color to match the front. Other than that I would never let a self wound bobbin on my machines. There are so many top quality pre-wound bobbins that are relatively inexpensive and the consistency alone is worth every cent.

Efficient machine operation is all about consistency and the elimination of variables. I would switch to a pre-wound bobbin from a decent manufacturer, eliminate the backlash spring, set your bobbin tensions with a Towa, set your top tensions to match then move on. We so rarely have to adjust tensions at all. We can tell by the backside of the embroidery if we have a bobbin getting low, we clean the firch out from under the bobbin spring every time we change bobbins, and from that point on it becomes a non issue. Every once in a while we have to clean the firch from in between the pre-tensioner disks. Looping is virtually unheard of and when we do see looping it is usually attributed to density or hooping problems, not tensions.

When I first started embroidering almost 25 years ago I was loosing my mind constantly fiddling with tensions. We had older Toyota machines then and I was tempted to make them into landfill, after all it had to be the machines right? Well I had a visit from another shop owner who was running a warehouse full of 12-20 head machines. She spent about two hours with me. We set the bobbins, set the top tensions to the bobbins then worked on hooping techniques. And like an old school teacher she threatened to hit me with a ruler if I touched the tensions. From that day forward we've never deviated from that strategy and it works to this day on several different brands of machines.

And one other thing, we tend to run our tensions a little higher than some shops. The balance between bobbin and top thread still exists but the thread is a little more firmly controlled. 

We have one needle on every head set aside for metallics and nothing else. We always keep black and white on the same needle position. We run one brand of thread and I don't care if it is a dollar a cone more than the latest import. We run the same brands of backing. We use the same density and underlay recipes based upon the substrate. And we are religious about machine maintenance!

Sense a theme? We live to eliminate variables and to keep the needles going up and down all day...

Now with all of that said, I haven't mentioned machine brands since I firmly believe all of this is applicable to all brands. The only thing I'll say about different machines is that I will never own a machine that has the style of tensioner that squeezes the thread between two disks. That's fine for the conditioners and pre-tensioners but I want a tensioner that rotates with the thread.

Hope some of this is even just a little helpful for someone...


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## lrsbranding (Aug 6, 2011)

Mark, What you said makes sense. We also stitch by the rules you mentioned and the Tajima will punch happy all day. The Barudan---well that's another story. The only difference is the backlash spring in the bobbin case. I was told the Barudan had to have the spring regardless of bobbin type. Perhaps not. I will remove it and give it a try. Thanks


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## Frienzy (Mar 13, 2012)

Mark, yes we are wounding up our own bobbins and I don't see a problem there, as I said we have our other SWF machines that runs consistently perfect all day long with these bobbins.
The Barudan is running good aswell but the thing is that the bobbin tension is much more looser than on other machines guess for the reasons mentioned above and it is quite tricky to set them evenly that loose on all heads. The Anti-Backslash bobbins are recommended by Barudan manufacturers...
Well yeah the first thing to do is obviously getting the towa tension meter and go from there.


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