# How much ink is used?



## holcomb (Dec 5, 2007)

How much ink is used (in dollars) if you do 100% print on a 8"X10" plaque?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Which printer?


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## holcomb (Dec 5, 2007)

Ricoh GS7000


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

For full coverage letter page is about 
$.50

See my article in A & E magazine.

http://www.conde.com/SublimationReport2011.pdf


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## gunatausa (Mar 21, 2011)

I wish it could be only 50 $ but its not
1 depends on "what is the cost per cartridge 
or if you use Bulk system . the bulk system with cheep inks will save many times on inks in some cases up to 200 times cheaper
Ricoh don have bulk system options so you are stuck with very expensive Prints 
the way to go is to buy a printer that can give you alternative inks use ; such as Chinese inks other sublimation inks made in USA 
so you can stop support the INK business and all its distributors but not yours
I was thinking to buy Ricoh which is stronger more durable and prints faster than Epson but when i learned that the only option is to stick with original iks said "Thanks But No Thanks "
Even refilling cartridges seems to me bad idea when you can use CISS

also its very important to specify what do you mean 100% print 8x10
here is a small chart to explain the difference
100 % page text small size 
100 % page with text and some pictures on it 
100 % page with photo on it where the photo is mostly light colors and some dark areas
100 % page with photo on it where the photo is mostly composed of dark tones and solid colors


if you print the last one use the following rule 

whatever sales people selling you supplies tell you don't trust them they are train to sell not to hell you or give you accurate info
if they tell you for example that it will cost you 50 cents per page make sure to multiply by factor of 5 
this factor i call sales Gimmick factor where sales people use to sell you staf
they would usually take the smallest specs in a printer and will present it as the best or biggest 
For Example 
if you ask the following question
How long is it going to take for Epson WF 1100 to print a photo with good quality 
the sales person will say something like : " don't worry it takes only 1,5 min " he takes this as the first option from the Epson manual which is saying Yes it prints 8x10 for 1,5 min but would not mention that if you put the printer setting to "Best Photo" it will take minimum 5 min 
I'm talking out of experience
OOOOOOOOOOO 
i forgot to mention the resolution of your file is also extremely important when talking about cost of the inks and time of the printing 
I was shock today printing 8x10 print with photo on it taking 70 % of the page 
BUT AT 300 DPI 
It took 8 min and 43 Sec to print that high density print 
so its good questions but be careful who gives you the answers
the difference between VERY HELPFUL RESOURCEFUL sales STUFF and OTHER REAL USER can be as much different as 1to 10 
make sure to understand that the first thing sales people learn is to hide the bad properties of a product or not to mention it at all 
you can only learn them out of experience or other fulled users 
my 2 cents for today


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

There are many variables for sure. There should also be allowance for inks going to the waste tank and ink lost during print head cleaning sessions.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I print a complete full coverage test page.
Should be max ink usage.


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## holcomb (Dec 5, 2007)

I just did 200 plaques with this image. I started with nearly full cartriges in my GS700. Most of the plaques were 8X10, but I did have 7X9 and 9X12's too. When finished I had used approx. half of the ink in the cartridges. So I figure at current prices I had used somwhere around $1.00 per plaque. I'm not complaining about the price of ink, I just want to make sure I can roughly calculate the cost of ink used so I can charge a fair price. As for Sawgrass ink, I think you pay for what you get, if you want to try some cheap ink, go for it, don't expect better results.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Did you check your ink levels using my video?
YouTube - condesystems's Channel
Search for "ink levels"


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

holcomb said:


> I just did 200 plaques with this image. I started with nearly full cartriges in my GS700. Most of the plaques were 8X10, but I did have 7X9 and 9X12's too. When finished I had used approx. half of the ink in the cartridges. So I figure at current prices I had used somwhere around $1.00 per plaque. I'm not complaining about the price of ink, I just want to make sure I can roughly calculate the cost of ink used so I can charge a fair price. As for Sawgrass ink, I think you pay for what you get, if you want to try some cheap ink, go for it, don't expect better results.


You should complain what ink cost you and I agree with the previous post that lack of understanding in this market leads to the Sawgrass cartel selling the concept that because their ink is 10 times the cost in the desktop market than it is in the wide format market it must be better. Almost any expert will tell you the opposite. the quality of their is subpar when it comes to clogging, head damage and colors. 

Take the job you just described. You really do not care that if you had a wide format printer the ink cost would be maybe $.25 tops per plaque versus $1.00? You just tossed $150 down the drain on one project. A few projects like that will pay for a large format printer and free yourself to use the best inks on the market.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I agree Mark with your logic.
That is why we sell a large number
of 24" sublimation systems.
It indeed will pay for itself IF you do enough
printing. I will try to come up with
a break even document.


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## holcomb (Dec 5, 2007)

We do large sublimation orders through ASI suppliers, we started doing sublimation in house to handle the orders that are too small and don't meet supplier minimums. The jobs we do in house are high profit and the ink cost is what it is.


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## gunatausa (Mar 21, 2011)

holcomb said:


> I just did 200 plaques with this image. I started with nearly full cartridges in my GS700. Most of the plaques were 8X10, but I did have 7X9 and 9X12's too. When finished I had used approx. half of the ink in the cartridges. So I figure at current prices I had used somewhere around $1.00 per plaque. I'm not complaining about the price of ink, I just want to make sure I can roughly calculate the cost of ink used so I can charge a fair price. As for Sawgrass ink, I think you pay for what you get, if you want to try some cheap ink, go for it, don't expect better results.


This is what i call descriptive info 
you are right image like this will run minimum for $1 in ink 
but im sure out of experience that if you keep printing the image till you completely finish the carts the price will jump to 1,5 - 2,00 $ 
J- Teck inks are many times cheaper and give you many times better results the quality is outstanding .
sawgrass is for suckers and people that are trained to believe sales people because tey are lazy to do research or just dont like to change 
and working on Ricoh is another bad idea . you are stuck with the expensive supplies without option to lower expense
OOOPppppppps
i forgot to mention the cleanings
my test shows that every cleaning on epson 1400 and WF 1000 waste exactly 7 Milliliters ink
in sawgrass words this is 7$ in the garbage anytime you do cleaning 
you might as well trow some blanks in the garbage as well 

and with Epson you do clean a lot 



I know you can allways say "I make good money the customers are paying good"
but wait for some time and will see that everybody will try to cut cost 
that is the nature in the business if you don't follow it u get out of business


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## gunatausa (Mar 21, 2011)

On-line Jerseys said:


> You should complain what ink cost you and I agree with the previous post that lack of understanding in this market leads to the Sawgrass cartel selling the concept that because their ink is 10 times the cost in the desktop market than it is in the wide format market it must be better. Almost any expert will tell you the opposite. the quality of their is subpar when it comes to clogging, head damage and colors.
> 
> Take the job you just described. You really do not care that if you had a wide format printer the ink cost would be maybe $.25 tops per plaque versus $1.00? You just tossed $150 down the drain on one project. A few projects like that will pay for a large format printer and free yourself to use the best inks on the market.


Mark you are absolutely right here
People just want to spend money 
why bother to teach them math
they should have leaned math before starting any business


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## quickflicks (Mar 30, 2011)

On-line Jerseys said:


> Take the job you just described. You really do not care that if you had a wide format printer the ink cost would be maybe $.25 tops per plaque versus $1.00? You just tossed $150 down the drain on one project. A few projects like that will pay for a large format printer and free yourself to use the best inks on the market.


What are the best inks on the market for Wide Format Printers?
Which Wide Format Printers could be used?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I think the top inks like jtech and SubliM
may be the same.

What makes a good ink great is a great profile.

I like the Mutoh RJ900 for soft substrates.
Epson 7890/9890 for general purpose.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Having both an RJ900 and an Epson 9800 I can say without question that in comparison the Epson is far better designed for the end user. Yes it is slower and that is the strength of the RJ 900 but past that there is no comparison. The paper and ink handling, ease of use is hands down 100 times easier on the Epson 9800. For some reason the Mutoh is design with the paper and the ink in the back which is a pain to change and refill. The printer really does not have any clue when there is no ink thus it does not automatically shut down when ink runs low as it does with the Epson. Not an issue if you constantly check ink levels but again the cartridges are in the back of the printer. We had a big overnight run and the last 7 sheets were totally screwed up because black ran out. Then we had to power clean to reload the black line. 

To top things off the Mutoh has paper come out of the printer parallel to the floor which makes zero sense. It causes all sorts of issues with paper and head strikes if you do not use the take up reel. Anytime you buy a printer for that much money and they include things like a couple little magnet paper guide attachments than something is wrong. Furthermore there are classic PDF's that Mutoh will send out on remedies to fix the paper issue. One actually includes unscrewing some sheet metal in front, bending to an angle and oh yes make sure you tape the edges so you do not cut your fingers off. Seriously - does that sound like a solution? We actually rigged up a cardboard ejection like table to resolve the paper issue because a paper reel just adds extra work for us.

The Mutoh prints great and fast but if you are looking for your first wide format printer I would stick with an Epson.


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## Pvasquez (Feb 19, 2011)

The Mutoh prints great and fast but if you are looking for your first wide format printer I would stick with an Epson.[/QUOTE]

You should look at 9700 if you decide to replace one of those units or just add another printer. I know about the issues regarding the paper on the RJ I'm still trying to figure a simple solution like a dummy online dryer.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

We do not have any issues with wet paper at all. I really like our profile as we get great colors and the paper is dry coming out. In fact it is much drier than our profile on the Epson. The issue is simply a horrible design. The Epson the paper comes out the bottom at an angle so it just slides down. The Mutoh comes straight out parallel to the ground thus it comes out only so far before gravity causes it to bend thus lift the paper up by the head. It is very clear it was designed strictly to be used with the take up real. 

For speed and colors the Mutoh is awesome but if this was our first wide format I would have been totally lost with it.


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