# Cobra high temp ink



## tatteredgypsy (Apr 28, 2011)

Good evening all... I just went to the cobra site to finally order some high temp ink for my new epson wf 1100 and its not there anymore..Did they have to stop selling it? I googled it also and when i click the link it said "page not found"...Does anyone know whats going on? Thanks


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

tatteredgypsy said:


> Good evening all... I just went to the cobra site to finally order some high temp ink for my new epson wf 1100 and its not there anymore..Did they have to stop selling it? I googled it also and when i click the link it said "page not found"...Does anyone know whats going on? Thanks


One can only guess but as stated before there was a reason they never sold "sublimation ink" and flew under the radar. One may come to the conclusion the support they received on this forum could have played a part with some ticked of distributors making sure Sawgrass took action as to not continue to lose revenue. If that is the case it tuly is sad they cannot compete with high quality products at a fair price but instead can only compete with the threat of legal action. 

Just like all the issues with the Ricoh related ink/cartridges it is most likely we will ever know the real story.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

tatteredgypsy said:


> Good evening all... I just went to the cobra site to finally order some high temp ink for my new epson wf 1100 and its not there anymore..Did they have to stop selling it? I googled it also and when i click the link it said "page not found"...Does anyone know whats going on? Thanks


The Epson WF1100 user printer code is #68 
High Capacity Black is #98

https://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/BuyInkResults.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63084675

Cobra Ink has 3 type of inks:
Pigment
Dye Base
High Temperature

You can order just the cartridges or CISS System


.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began


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## gerryppg (Jan 29, 2010)

I ordered a pigment system last night and the high temp was there. They must have took it off today. I dont know what to do with my 1400 Cobra High Temp printer now.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Lol,

I just got my first PERFECT sublimated twill patches Saturday on a WF1100 and Cobra High Temp inks. I hope there is a reasonable explanation, and not just hostile action by Sawgrass.

-James


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## gerryppg (Jan 29, 2010)

jemmyell said:


> Lol,
> 
> I just got my first PERFECT sublimated twill patches Saturday on a WF1100 and Cobra High Temp inks. I hope there is a reasonable explanation, and not just hostile action by Sawgrass.
> 
> -James


 Most likely the latter. I hate big business that cant stand competition and shakes their muscle with lawyers and money.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

If there was some kind of "deal" chances are information will be next to nonexistent......


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

did a google search for cobra high temp ink and even pages on the cobra site come up 404


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> One can only guess but as stated before there was a reason they never sold "sublimation ink" and flew under the radar. One may come to the conclusion the support they received on this forum could have played a part with some ticked of distributors making sure Sawgrass took action as to not continue to lose revenue. If that is the case it tuly is sad they cannot compete with high quality products at a fair price but instead can only compete with the threat of legal action.
> 
> Just like all the issues with the Ricoh related ink/cartridges it is most likely we will ever know the real story.


It is premature and no conclusions can be reached. It could be as simple as they need to do website maintenance and add/change things. 

I bought 4880 inks 2 weeks ago and mentioned to Cobra they had an issue with the ink selection mechanism on the website and they confirmed that. Another user has informed me they were told of website maintenance this weekend.

If they were no longer selling "HT" inks I would think there would be a explanation on the front page of the website.


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## MHB (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm going to venture a guess based on last week:
SGIA Expo 2011 in New Orleans + Sawgrass Booth = NO COBRA HI TEMP INK


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> One can only guess but as stated before there was a reason they never sold "sublimation ink" and flew under the radar. One may come to the conclusion the support they received on this forum could have played a part with some ticked of distributors making sure Sawgrass took action as to not continue to lose revenue. If that is the case it tuly is sad they cannot compete with high quality products at a fair price but instead can only compete with the threat of legal action.
> 
> Just like all the issues with the Ricoh related ink/cartridges it is most likely we will ever know the real story.


In reference to my other post above.

I checked their website, the 4880 inks I mentioned were there was a problem is changing, they are doing website maintenance because they disabled the order form in the page, which I pointed out to them has a problem. This is for pigment inks.

.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began

The ordering mechanism is not in the page at the moment.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

MHB said:


> I'm going to venture a guess based on last week:
> SGIA Expo 2011 in New Orleans + Sawgrass Booth = NO COBRA HI TEMP INK


??? Sawgrass always goes to those shows. Why would SG showing up at a show advertising inks they have been selling since 1997 have to do with Cobra?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

tatteredgypsy said:


> Good evening all... I just went to the cobra site to finally order some high temp ink for my new epson wf 1100 and its not there anymore..Did they have to stop selling it? I googled it also and when i click the link it said "page not found"...Does anyone know whats going on? Thanks


At the link 

.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began

the "Pigment Ink Combo Pack" link is removed as well.

Sunday night is the best time to do website maintenance.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

binki said:


> did a google search for cobra high temp ink and even pages on the cobra site come up 404


cobra ink (google) works fine .:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began





gerryppg said:


> I ordered a pigment system last night and the high temp was there. They must have took it off today. I dont know what to do with my 1400 Cobra High Temp printer now.


give them a call


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## greenmachine (Oct 31, 2008)

If you call them they will say they do not sell it anymore!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> One can only guess but as stated before there was a reason they never sold "sublimation ink" and flew under the radar. One may come to the conclusion the support they received on this forum could have played a part with some ticked of distributors making sure Sawgrass took action as to not continue to lose revenue. If that is the case it tuly is sad they cannot compete with high quality products at a fair price but instead can only compete with the threat of legal action.
> 
> Just like all the issues with the Ricoh related ink/cartridges it is most likely we will ever know the real story.


Seems your guess was correct.


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## shartman (Dec 18, 2008)

Sorry about that......


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Seems your guess was correct.


One can only hope that when people on this forum thank the distributors of Sawgrass ink for their great customer service they thank them for shutting down their only true competitor.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

FYI,

PM me about this.

-James


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

jemmyell said:


> FYI,
> 
> It is my humble opinion that any private discussion you have had with Richard should remain private.
> 
> -James


Got to love the secrecy behind this market - the Ricoh issues and now the Cobra issues. Why is the truth so hard for people in this industry? We are all business people and given the opportunity accept the truth for what it is. When everything is hush hush it only magnifies the issue.


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## big frank sports (Aug 7, 2008)

There has to be some form of loophole around this Sawgrass stuff. They are shutting down pretty much everything liquid with sublimation - the only option is Toner but those printers are not cheap at all.

Frank


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## DCans (Nov 21, 2009)

Well this is just frigging fantastic news for those that just bought a new printer and loaded up those Hi Temp inks.


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## crowsmack (Mar 22, 2010)

That burns my biscuits. I just got my kit last week and my 1100 printer is coming in the mail tomorrow. Hopefully I can get a decent amount of prints with what I've got!


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## Red Earth (Jan 10, 2008)

You can probably buy a large format printer, even a used one on ebay e.g. , get J-Teck ink (which is licensed for large format sublimation) and *still* come out ahead on investment in time, money and aggravation by staying away from the monopoly!


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

Wow that makes me furious. What Nazis


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## johnled57 (Oct 21, 2011)

I've got about 25 t-shirts, half a case of mugs and a few odd balls left over from my previous sublimation days and had no problem paying Cobra's price for a printer and ink but I'm not paying the price for a Ricoh and Sawgrass. Had I found this forum a week earlier I would have ordered then.

Wasn't meant to be I guess!


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

Occupy Sawgrass!!!


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## Red Earth (Jan 10, 2008)

HA! that made my day jfish!


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Just got my printer Friday


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Corporations only have power when we give them money.....Take away your money from them and they become powerless.....


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

This makes me soo mad because someone like Rich who is the posterchild for customer service in this industry and Sawgrass who is the worst customer service I have ever had to deal with. Also their crap inks ruined 2 of my printers by literally hardening up like epoxy in the printhead, nozzles, lines, etc. 

I will never forget the C*nt that wouldn't help me with my hybrid printer setup and refused to allow me a driver download and or any other instructions or help because I had Artainium with Chromablast hybrid setup on the 4800. She said its not a product they support as I run a mac and the setup only works on a PC with a rip (watasch) and they wouldn't support it but all I wanted to get was the driver for the Sublijet inks so I could run the left side using the Artainium inks as the whole right side was completely clogged and didn't matter if I printed using all 8 colors as only 4 would print. So long story short she insisted she wouldn't help me and refused any support or to answer any questions. Then told me I had to buy some driver and would not offer it free. So she sent me to sales to Buy some driver or software to allow it to work with a PC and buy sublijet. The sales guy told me just to lie and say I had sublijet so she would allow a download of the hybrid driver. She then said I was lying and wouldn't help me.. 

Now this is what made me furious - about a week prior I had talked with one of the Sawgrass support people and told them my situation and we concluded that I needed to get a PC instead of using my MACBOOK to print. So I got a cheap laptop PC (a sony vaio I believe) and setup everything on the PC and downloaded a trial of photoshop and illustrator for it. so about 7-10 days later I got everything setup as the PC was older and needed many changes and updates. That's when I called Sawgrass again because I had done everything the original tech told me to do. Then I got the Russian sounding tech support lady (see the top paragraph for story) and was denied any support or service and downloads which are generally free. 

So in the end I never got any support or access to the drivers I needed in order to make the printer function the way I needed it to. I had spend about 1500+ for inks, computers papers, equipment etc for basically nothing so my options were to convert the printer to all artainium inks so I could print on my macbook or all sublijet or chromablast. So pretty much spend another $1,000 and replace the printhead as the rightside nozzles were shot. and in the end after a month of cleaning, disassembly etc I only freed up 6 of the 8 nozzles on the 4800 printer. Such a bad experience and just a downright bad person to deal with in the end. I just wanted to try and make the printer work on my own terms I didn't need to have support or whatever they were trying to refuse me for as I just wanted the driver so I could try and make it work as a hybrid and also note the tech support told me the CMYK inks between Sublijet and Artainium are pretty much the same inks according to them and that's what they told me. So if your running the same driver for hybrid artainium setup or sublijet setup the prints will be the same. Sublijet just has 8 colors which include Red and blue and artainium is the same as epsons factory colors on the 4800. 

I did everything the tech guy told me to and when I ran around, spent all that money, setup the software, drivers, etc and called back to get the driver needed from them they pretty much told me to go f*ck myself. I would never buy anything from those donks again after that. But now im concerned as there aren't many Dye Sub ink options. 

If anyone knows of any affordable DYE SUB Inks for the 1400 or 1800 etc 6 or 8 color setup refill bottles please PM me with the info so I can place an order. and if anyone has any questions etc let me know thanks


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Unfortunately Rich is a victim of his success. I have suggested to forum members not to tout hi temp ink from cobra because of what could happen. Did!


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## PhilDx (Feb 13, 2010)

Well this needs saying: Sawgrass sells an overpriced product with miserable support, and don't deserve to succeed. It's a real shame that their path to success is to stamp out all competition with legal threats instead of offering the best product and winning loyal customers.


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## gerryppg (Jan 29, 2010)

Monopolistic


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

So does anybody have any suggestions what those people who bought a brand new printer and was only gonna use cobra inks. Should I sell? Send it back? I have no desire to use it for transfers. What are some suggestions? 

Don't want sawgrass inks either


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

johnled57 said:


> My impression from Richard was that he WILL continue to sell to existing customers but you might check to be sure. Wish I had bought one a week ago!!!!!


Me too..my printer was on back order from Office Max and it arrived unexpectedly on Friday was going to purchase ink today. I wish I would have ordered last week too.

Guess I am gonna box it up, if there is no other suggestions.


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## avee2010 (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm guessing cobra was selling a dye sub ink under the name HT ink or high temperature ink? Sawgrass goes after all their competitors viciously in the states, just the way it is unfortunately.

I used to pay almost $300 a litre for their inks (bulk) a while back, though i found some other distributors overseas for much cheaper. I'm using manoukian ink now (from italy) for half the price, and if i wanted to get really experimental there are chinese distributors i'm in contact with that i could get similar ink for $40 / litre. Of course you can get bulk systems for most smaller printers for just a couple hundred bucks, so it would pay itself off very fast. 

Guess you gotta hunt around, but most printers can be adapted, dye sub ink is always 'dye' so it will work with essentially any print head, i even have solvent print heads running dye sub ink right now beautifully too. 

I tend to experiment a lot, but dye inks are the easiest to work with, so you're not screwed if you bought this system, just need some easy 'modifications'


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

charles95405 said:


> Unfortunately Rich is a victim of his success. I have suggested to forum members not to tout hi temp ink from cobra because of what could happen. Did!


Cobra bringing out Ricoh refillable sub carts and bulk sub inks probably had something to do with it too. Especially since the timing of the introduction of those carts coincides with all the defects Sawgrass was having with their sub inks damaging those printers.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

avee2010 said:


> I'm guessing cobra was selling a dye sub ink under the name HT ink or high temperature ink? Sawgrass goes after all their competitors viciously in the states, just the way it is unfortunately.
> 
> I used to pay almost $300 a litre for their inks (bulk) a while back, though i found some other distributors overseas for much cheaper. I'm using manoukian ink now (from italy) for half the price, and if i wanted to get really experimental there are chinese distributors i'm in contact with that i could get similar ink for $40 / litre. Of course you can get bulk systems for most smaller printers for just a couple hundred bucks, so it would pay itself off very fast.
> 
> ...


Where are you getting your color profiles for the inks you are using?

-James


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## avee2010 (Jun 7, 2011)

jemmyell said:


> Where are you getting your color profiles for the inks you are using?
> 
> -James


I just make my own with a gretag eye-one and my onyx rip software


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes, it seems this is fairly common in the wide format stuff. Do you use Profile Maker or does your rip have these facilities?

-James


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## avee2010 (Jun 7, 2011)

jemmyell said:


> Yes, it seems this is fairly common in the wide format stuff. Do you use Profile Maker or does your rip have these facilities?
> 
> -James


One of my rip stations has the ICC profile making option enabled, so i just do it there, i'm sure there are other standalone solutions that are more affordable now though.


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## texasjack49 (Aug 4, 2008)

charles95405 said:


> Unfortunately Rich is a victim of his success. I have suggested to forum members not to tout hi temp ink from cobra because of what could happen. Did!


Amen, 
Rich and Cobra were just a word of mouth entity until recently when Cobra was outed and Rich was named by a few. And they just beat the issue to death, waving a red cape in front of the bull.So, maybe the bull took the queue and charged. Nobody saw this coming?


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## Brewzer (Oct 2, 2010)

This sucks. I just started using cobra and love it.


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## Jase (Feb 6, 2011)

Well I had always heard that sawgrass were a bunch of pingypings, my one and only dealing with them confirmed that, and this just pisses me right off.

I bought a couple of printers off Rich earlier this year, great service, fast, and helped out sending them to Australia for me. I'm pretty lazy so I only set up the hi temp printer last week, and made my first thing last night, reading that his HT gear is no longer available is really disappointing. 

Hopefully there is some way around this, I cannot see how a company can own the rights to a technique which can be performed in a number or ways with various products. Its like me owning the rights for making bread and then pursuing anyone who makes anything that resembles it in any way. 

I look into China for a number of products, ink will now be added to the list. Wont ever buy a sawgrass product


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Jase said:


> Wont ever buy a sawgrass product


Congrats as this is the only true weapon against Sawgrass and the Cartel.


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## ginzburg (Apr 27, 2011)

The picture of the bottles said RZ500. I don't know if that is what you get when you order or if it is the same as the Rdink RZ500 in the identical 100ml bottles.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

HI,

Were they able to supply an epson desktop printer ICC profile for the RZ500 ink?

-James


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Well, if you want to drop $6K you can get a wide format printer (24" and up) and pay 10% of the ink cost because there is no patent there. Just think, 6 ink refills and you paid for your machine.....


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

binki said:


> Well, if you want to drop $6K you can get a wide format printer (24" and up) and pay 10% of the ink cost because there is no patent there. Just think, 6 ink refills and you paid for your machine.....


The ink cost reductions start at 42 inch or greater printers, and it is not because there is no patent being claimed for larger printers.

Sawgrass as a result of patent litigation settled with BASF and came to a licensing agreement that is now offered seperately to other parties selling sub inks for 42 inch or greater printers.

BASF and Sawgrass Technologies cooperate in digital sublimation market | Asian Textile Business | Professional Journal archives from AllBusiness.com

The '907 patent that SG _abuses_ does not dictate printer carriage length.


Several companies in the US license sub ink from SG.

Sawgrass Technologies & InkTec Sign License Agreement for Sublimation Technology - MyPrintResource.com

BTW, not picking on you, these mis-conceptions have been floating around the forums for years.


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## ginzburg (Apr 27, 2011)

jemmyell said:


> HI,
> 
> Were they able to supply an epson desktop printer ICC profile for the RZ500 ink?
> 
> -James


I have never used any of these inks so I can't say for certain. If it is the same, then it would use the same ICC profile I would think. Also, there is a profile listed if you search on Google for that number. I don't know if it works well. The profile was from a different brand than I saw with the identical bottles. I assume many different places sell that ink though. I don't know who actually makes it. Obviously imported though.


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Sawgrass can shove it. I am beyond pissed.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

binki said:


> Well, if you want to drop $6K you can get a wide format printer (24" and up) and pay 10% of the ink cost because there is no patent there. Just think, 6 ink refills and you paid for your machine.....


You have to kind of watch it - 24" printers are only considered wide format printers when you are buying Sawgrass ink from the Sawgrass Cartel. They are not considered wide format outside of the Cartel. This allows you to switch from Artanium ink to Sublim ink. Sublim is still pricey but it does have improved colors and less clogging than Artanium.

No one from the Cartel has ever answered the question on why they refuse to sell a higher quality ink to the desktop market (Sublim) and instead force them to use old ink that has below average colors and clogging issues?

Makes little business sense on the surface.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

Personally, considering all I print anymore are coffee mugs, the price of the ink doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that the printers can't handle the ink and die prematurely. My first Ricoh 5050 started having problems after a couple months, was replaced with another 5050 that had problems right out of the box and was replaced with the 5550. I've had the 5550 for close to 2 years, but after just 1225 copies needs to be replaced. I have a 3300 on the way and am hoping to get at least 1500 prints out of it. That shouldn't be too much to ask, should it? If it will last me that long, I need to factor in just an extra 10c per print for the cost of the machine. This is a lower priced printer so I'll have my fingers crossed.


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## Cathy91722 (Feb 26, 2010)

I am really upset finally reading this thread. I just pulled my Epson 1400 and bulk system out of the closet and was getting ready to set it up and order my inks. Go on the forum to do my research first and find this! The last post I'm seeing was in November. Has anything changed since then with the ability to find the high temp inks anywhere? It really hurts me to ink-up the Ricoh with sublijet ink...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Cathy91722 said:


> I am really upset finally reading this thread. I just pulled my Epson 1400 and bulk system out of the closet and was getting ready to set it up and order my inks. Go on the forum to do my research first and find this! The last post I'm seeing was in November. Has anything changed since then with the ability to find the high temp inks anywhere? It really hurts me to ink-up the Ricoh with sublijet ink...


Cathy, check your inbox.


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## libertyspotusa (Jun 19, 2012)

Well... I'm definitely a newby alright. I ordered a Epson WF1100, bought transfer paper, poly shirts, etc. I messed up on the ink though.

I bought pigment ink from Cobra because the description said it could be used for T shirt transfers. Little did I know that they were talking about heat transfers not sublimation transfers.

I bought the carts and 8oz of each color. I didn't realize until I read the post, in this post that I was way off on what I needed as far as ink goes. I bought pigment ink and needed High Temp ink.

Now that Cobra doesn't sell it anymore I don't know where to get my ink from. I heard nothing but good things about Cobra's high temp ink.

I refuse to pay for sawgrass ink, i'm sorry.

I was wondering if someone could point me out to some high temp ink that may be comparable in quality and price to Cobra.


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## Humerus (Nov 10, 2012)

Ugh this is disappointing. I've read over this forum for a couple weeks now preparing to take my little coffee mug business to sublimation. I'll echo the last post - does anybody know where I can get the inks? I'm learning slowly but one thing I realized pretty quick is that I do not want to use Sawgrass!


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

For mugs I really think a Ricoh with sub gel inks is a good way to go. The print area is small, and you don't use all that much ink for each mug. Even at Sawgrass prices it's not bad per mug, and there's good color management, something that's important for mugs with photos on them. At least once a week there's someone who's hassling with mugs using a generic ink and no profile.

You can always get sub inks from resellers on eBay and Amazon, and many of them also provide various CISS systems and refillable carts. A five-minute search will turn a number of these.


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## AgiliTees Gal (Mar 17, 2007)

I've had my GX 3300N for a couple of years...basically to do the occasional mug. (I'm primarily a screen printer). My biggest complaint is that it goes through so much ink NOT printing (yes, I have updated the firmware, etc.). You're not supposed to turn the thing off because it runs cleaning cycles every time you turn it on and uses copious amounts of ink. I haven't had clogging issues like with my old Epsons, but the amount of ink this thing wastes is incredible! Probably as a result, I've just had to order my second Waste Ink Collector unit in a year ($30 each), and I hardly ever use the printer! 
Don't get me started about the Cartel. I've done sublimation since the 90's (with my Epson 980), and have watched the Sawgrass Borg take over the whole small format industry. I have to change aisles at ISS Shows when I see the Sawgrass Booth...my blood pressure goes throught the roof. 

When I saw this thread today, my hopes rose that we finally have an alternative....but then I kept reading. I think it's fair to say that I've never made $$ in sublimation due to the exhorbitant cost of the inks and the printer maintenance issues, but I choose to maintain the capability to keep my customers who want the occasional personalized mug or license plate frame happy.

In a way, it's comforting to see others voicing the anger and frustration I have been feeling for years about the "Sawgrass Situation". Few have been willing to talk about it--apparently for a lot of reasons--and it always amazed me that Sawgrass appeared to be immune from customer "blowback". Maybe not so much anymore??


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm not saying that Sawgrass ink isn't a ripoff, but after printing around 700 mugs with my Ricoh, and considering the lines are still full of ink, I figure my average cost per mug for ink was close to 20c. Add that to the 5c for paper and a little over $2 for the mugs with shipping, you have a whopping $2.25 - $2.50 into a mug. How can you help but not make money on coffee mugs?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

AgiliTees Gal said:


> I've had my GX 3300N for a couple of years...basically to do the occasional mug. (I'm primarily a screen printer). My biggest complaint is that it goes through so much ink NOT printing (yes, I have updated the firmware, etc.). You're not supposed to turn the thing off because it runs cleaning cycles every time you turn it on and uses copious amounts of ink. I haven't had clogging issues like with my old Epsons, but the amount of ink this thing wastes is incredible! Probably as a result, I've just had to order my second Waste Ink Collector unit in a year ($30 each), and I hardly ever use the printer!
> Don't get me started about the Cartel. I've done sublimation since the 90's (with my Epson 980), and have watched the Sawgrass Borg take over the whole small format industry. I have to change aisles at ISS Shows when I see the Sawgrass Booth...my blood pressure goes throught the roof.
> 
> When I saw this thread today, my hopes rose that we finally have an alternative....but then I kept reading. I think it's fair to say that I've never made $$ in sublimation due to the exhorbitant cost of the inks and the printer maintenance issues, but I choose to maintain the capability to keep my customers who want the occasional personalized mug or license plate frame happy.
> ...


Barb,

When people mention that a Ricoh has less clog issues it is due to the fact that your printer, while powered on and in "standby", is using your inks to keep the heads clear, even when you are not printing or doing a head clean. This is the reason for the perception that Ricoh's clog less than Epsons.

An Epson doesn't have this feature so most users let the printer sit too long before printing and experience banding and clogging more often. On an Epson if you print frequently, or just run nozzle checks often, I find they are reliable. 

So Epson users have to be diligent about their frequent printing. Another factor is that the Sawgrass is using sealed non-refillable carts that are well pressurized on the Ricoh and no CIS. 

Most starting out using 3rd party ink delivery systems on Epson don't know about proper refill and maintanance on CIS or refillable carts, in this respect Epson shouldn't get the bad rap. 

The "bag" CIS that Sawgrass offers on Epson in my opinion is a very poor design. Most CIS offered by others you can top off the inks on demand and keep the channels at a minimum fill level. On the Sawgrass CIS you have to go till the bag is nearly empty, so less ink mass on the back to help overcome gravity.

So when you bought your Ricoh I'm sure you were not told about the "trickle" ink usage beforehand. That is really the "dirty secret" to the claims of Ricoh reliablity.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mn shutterbug said:


> I'm not saying that Sawgrass ink isn't a ripoff, but after printing around 700 mugs with my Ricoh, and considering the lines are still full of ink, I figure my average cost per mug for ink was close to 20c. Add that to the 5c for paper and a little over $2 for the mugs with shipping, you have a whopping $2.25 - $2.50 into a mug. How can you help but not make money on coffee mugs?


You're not seeing the ink cost issue because you are printing frequently. If you let a Ricoh sit and not use for a while when it is powered then you would notice. Ricohs use ink when idle. It takes sitting idle a while to notice it. 

That is how people believe the Ricoh can sit a long time without printing and not have clogging issues. The truth is that as long as the printer is powered up it "prints" frequently even if the user isn't really printing, just no paper is involved.

https://ricoh.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19143/p/2510%2C2511%2C2512%2C2735

"How can I stop ink alerts occurring too frequently or too early?"

"To keep their nozzles (inkheads) in top condition, GelJet devices perform automatic maintenance at various times, including the beginning of a print task. 
When maintenance is performed, very small amounts of fresh ink are used to clear away ink that has dried within the nozzle, wipers absorb ink as necessary, and foreign particles of paper and dried ink are cleaned away. For this reason, even colors of ink that are not used for the printing itself are consumed during maintenance."

"If this maintenance cannot be automatically performed, it is possible that the nozzles may suffer permanent effects such that even head cleaning cannot restore them to optimal operate.

You appear to be using yours often so you probably won't have issues, ink cost or relability.

Ricoh started the ink vampire a few models back, the 1st generation Ricoh G500 I had using their pigments didn't have that feature. Just like every Epson I have had I had to print often or deal with clogs. It's a nice feature but if you are not aware of it and don't print often it will suck up the ink over extended periods of time.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Good information and leads into something I never realized until recently that many "clogs" are not actually clogs but air. Not only does the Ricoh come in sealed bags but also on the wide format side Inktec does as well for this reason.

This was confirmed very recently when the Mutoh tech was here on site, once again, and mentioned the same thing that many clogs are actually from air getting into the head.

I would guess like many I always thought a clog was a clog was a clog.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Good information and leads into something I never realized until recently that many "clogs" are not actually clogs but air. Not only does the Ricoh come in sealed bags but also on the wide format side Inktec does as well for this reason.
> 
> This was confirmed very recently when the Mutoh tech was here on site, once again, and mentioned the same thing that many clogs are actually from air getting into the head.
> 
> I would guess like many I always thought a clog was a clog was a clog.


Yeah, it's kinda like what happens if you ever drink something thru a straw with a hole in it or a split in the side.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

This is definitely a wide misconception, especially with users of CISS systems, where it is very easy for an air gap to develop in any of the joins in the system, or from users not filling/priming properly, and keeping both sets of rubber bungs in place. I think a lot of problems are ink flow problems with CISS, and not actually an ink blockage/clog. Also, using an open system like a CISS or refill carts, it is easy to get an air bubble which is then sucked into the head.
People always assume that their problem is the ink blocking or clogging, but I doubt it is most of the time. This seems especially true of people buying non-Sawgrass ink who have problems, who automatically assume their ink must have blocked because they bought cheap instead of buying the real stuff.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Our Mutoh had the easiest preventive solution for wide format and refilable cartridges - every night refill when you are done with production and typically ovenight any of the air bubbles created by refilling a cartridge will be gone.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> You're not seeing the ink cost issue because you are printing frequently. If you let a Ricoh sit and not use for a while when it is powered then you would notice. Ricohs use ink when idle. It takes sitting idle a while to notice it.


Actually, my printer does sit for weeks at a time without being used. I do a few 6 and 9 dozen orders occasionally so my close to 1000 mugs in the last year or so also meant a lot of idle time. One thing I do if it's sat for a couple weeks without use is do a nozzle check. This process does not cause the machine to do a head cleaning and uses very little ink but keeps the nozzles clear. 

If a person thinks it uses that much ink doing cleanings during idle time, then it would make sense to me to leave the printer off and run a nozzle check every other day. That wouldn't use more than a couple pennies worth of ink and will keep the nozzles free and clear.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mn shutterbug said:


> Actually, my printer does sit for weeks at a time without being used. I do a few 6 and 9 dozen orders occasionally so my close to 1000 mugs in the last year or so also meant a lot of idle time. One thing I do if it's sat for a couple weeks without use is do a nozzle check. This process does not cause the machine to do a head cleaning and uses very little ink but keeps the nozzles clear.
> 
> If a person thinks it uses that much ink doing cleanings during idle time, then it would make sense to me to leave the printer off and run a nozzle check every other day. That wouldn't use more than a couple pennies worth of ink and will keep the nozzles free and clear.


But if you leave it off then when turned back on it does the automatic head cleaning thing. So that would seem to use more ink.

From the other poster ...

"My biggest complaint is that it goes through so much ink NOT printing (yes, I have updated the firmware, etc.). *You're not supposed to turn the thing off because it runs cleaning cycles every time you turn it on and uses copious amounts of ink*."

The ink vampire cost this user in the thread below about a 1/4 if the inks in the carts from this user. Some of the dealers weren't even aware of why this happens back then. They were thinking the disappearing ink was due to the initial setup and filling the ink lines.

http://www.dyesub.org/forum/index.php?webtag=DSSI

"I do know that at least 1/4 of my ink has been wasted from these cleanings. At $240 for 4 carts and 1/2 of the ink was used to charge the system for the first time (according to Conde), I have an available ink cost of $120. For the 14 sheets I have already printed and there is maybe 1/8 of the carts left....... that gives me an ink cost of about $6.50/ full sheet of print. Pretty pricey if I allow the printer to continue to run it's auto maintenance. If I take that out of the equation, my ink cost drops by 1/2.

Ok, I am rambling here since Al ask. It looks like the cleanings to date have cost me $60 of ink??"

Conde had recommended ...

"I just talked to Vickie? at Conde and she says that if the Ricoh is left on and not used, it will do some type of automatic maintenance that uses ink to keep the heads unclogged. Her suggestion is to purchase "Harvey Headcleaner" or "Printer Jockey" and set it up to run a nozzle check every day or so to keep it from going into automatic maintenance. She said it should be left on as it will use more ink starting it up all of the time."


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mn shutterbug said:


> Actually, my printer does sit for weeks at a time without being used. I do a few 6 and 9 dozen orders occasionally so my close to 1000 mugs in the last year or so also meant a lot of idle time. One thing I do if it's sat for a couple weeks without use is do a nozzle check. This process does not cause the machine to do a head cleaning and uses very little ink but keeps the nozzles clear.
> 
> If a person thinks it uses that much ink doing cleanings during idle time, then it would make sense to me to leave the printer off and run a nozzle check every other day. That wouldn't use more than a couple pennies worth of ink and will keep the nozzles free and clear.


Also, from your previous post in this same thread ...

"Personally, considering all I print anymore are coffee mugs, the price of the ink doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that the printers can't handle the ink and die prematurely. My first Ricoh 5050 started having problems after a couple months, was replaced with another 5050 that had problems right out of the box and was replaced with the 5550. I've had the 5550 for close to 2 years, but after just 1225 copies needs to be replaced. I have a 3300 on the way and am hoping to get at least 1500 prints out of it. That shouldn't be too much to ask, should it? If it will last me that long, I need to factor in just an extra 10c per print for the cost of the machine. This is a lower priced printer so I'll have my fingers crossed."

You are now on your 3rd Ricoh, not printing frequently or keeping the printer off doesn't seem wise to me, especially if you go back and read the dead Ricoh threads and review the user printing habits for all those reporting dead printers. 

According to Ricoh

"If this maintenance cannot be automatically performed, it is possible that the nozzles may suffer permanent effects such that even head cleaning cannot restore them to optimal operate." 

The statement above would seem to indicate that you should not ever turn off the printer and let it sit. The dead Ricoh user reports here in this forum confirms this.

Personally if I used a Ricoh for sublimation I would be running it nearly daily, print job or no print job. Daily nozzle checks or Harveys head cleaner seems to be the best way to avoid high ink costs and/or doorstop printers.


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## AgiliTees Gal (Mar 17, 2007)

mn shutterbug said:


> Actually, my printer does sit for weeks at a time without being used. I do a few 6 and 9 dozen orders occasionally so my close to 1000 mugs in the last year or so also meant a lot of idle time. One thing I do if it's sat for a couple weeks without use is do a nozzle check. This process does not cause the machine to do a head cleaning and uses very little ink but keeps the nozzles clear.
> 
> If a person thinks it uses that much ink doing cleanings during idle time, then it would make sense to me to leave the printer off and run a nozzle check every other day. That wouldn't use more than a couple pennies worth of ink and will keep the nozzles free and clear.


I was told by tech support at Conde to always leave the printer on (and--for good measure--to put it on a UPS in case of power outages) because it does a full cleaning cycle and wastes lots of very expensive ink whenever it is powered off and on. I'd love to know if turning the printer off during idle periods saves any more ink than leaving it on and letting it do lots of "little" head cleanings.

Maybe it's a crazy idea, but what if I left the printer powered on and removed the Ink Waste Collector during long idle periods? The constant "cleanings" would be prevented. But would the heads then dry out and clog? When I've received the "red light" (won't print message) because an ink cartridge is empty, I leave the empty cartridge in the machine and replace it only when I have a job to print, to prevent the other colors from being used for cleaning. Haven't noticed yet that it caused clogging issues.

One waste ink collector is "supposed' to last for approximately 27,000 pages. I've printed only about 200 pages with this machine since I bought it, and I've just had to order a third waste ink collector. ("Waste Ink" = $$$$).


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Seems to me the solution to using too much ink on the Ricoh's or any other printer that does automatic head cleaning every X hours/days is to do more printing! I don't always have sub jobs waiting, but printed transfers will keep when sealed in a baggie. Every couple of days I print out something I know I'll use eventually, even if I don't press it at that moment.

Even the cheapest Ricoh, with ink, is over $500. Add that cost to the over-charging people do for anything with the word "sublimation" in it, that's a hefty investment unless you plan on growing that part of your business.

Even if you don't have tons of business your printer would pay for its ink if you *donated* printed mugs to a local charity, church, or other 501-based organization. You take the fair market price of the mug as a deduction, which for mugs is at least 4X your costs (use the cheaper mugs, and find someone like Coastal that does free shipping). Your printer gets used, you get a deduction, they get free mugs.


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## AgiliTees Gal (Mar 17, 2007)

Great stuff, Mike! (Our messages seem to have crossed).
I'll try one of the automatic head cleaning programs and see if that helps.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

AgiliTees Gal said:


> I was told by tech support at Conde to always leave the printer on (and--for good measure--to put it on a UPS in case of power outages) because it does a full cleaning cycle and wastes lots of very expensive ink whenever it is powered off and on. I'd love to know if turning the printer off during idle periods saves any more ink than leaving it on and letting it do lots of "little" head cleanings.
> 
> Maybe it's a crazy idea, but what if I left the printer powered on and removed the Ink Waste Collector during long idle periods? The constant "cleanings" would be prevented. But would the heads then dry out and clog? When I've received the "red light" (won't print message) because an ink cartridge is empty, I leave the empty cartridge in the machine and replace it only when I have a job to print, to prevent the other colors from being used for cleaning. Haven't noticed yet that it caused clogging issues.
> 
> One waste ink collector is "supposed' to last for approximately 27,000 pages. I've printed only about 200 pages with this machine since I bought it, and I've just had to order a third waste ink collector. ("Waste Ink" = $$$$).


You might call Conde on removing the waste collector or not. I can't confirm but would seem to me either the printer would indicate a blinking light if it was removed indicating a "fault" or worse case might just do the auto maintanece anyway and then you got ink leaks since the waste ink is supposed to be collected. I would guess that only a printer firmware modification could disable the "vampire". 

I would suggest just leave the printer on and do frequent nozzle checks or get Harvey's head cleaner and let it do the nozzle checks automatically on some timed basis. A nozzle checks uses a miniscule amount of ink and the way I have interpreted what Conde and others have posted is that frequent nozzle checks or regular printing keeps the vampire in his coffin so to speak.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> Seems to me the solution to using too much ink on the Ricoh's or any other printer that does automatic head cleaning every X hours/days is to do more printing! I don't always have sub jobs waiting, but printed transfers will keep when sealed in a baggie. Every couple of days I print out something I know I'll use eventually, even if I don't press it at that moment.
> 
> Even the cheapest Ricoh, with ink, is over $500. Add that cost to the over-charging people do for anything with the word "sublimation" in it, that's a hefty investment unless you plan on growing that part of your business.
> 
> *Even if you don't have tons of business your printer would pay for its ink if you *donated* printed mugs to a local charity, church, or other 501-based organization. You take the fair market price of the mug as a deduction, which for mugs is at least 4X your costs (use the cheaper mugs, and find someone like Coastal that does free shipping). Your printer gets used, you get a deduction, they get free mugs.*


Thanks for that tip. I'll check it out. Not to use my printer frequently (in my case I already do) but my biggest worry is not about making money, getting to keep what I make and not give away to Uncle Sam is my issue. 

Over the years I have a lot (hundreds maybe) of odd blank tshirts leftover as I always get a spare shirt or 2 when I order. My bread and butter plain white shirts I eventually use up but got all kinds of onesies twosie light color shirt like turquiose colors and odd stuff like vnecks etc. Doubt I'll get to use them so best to print them and donate. Same thing with odd sublimation blanks I got but never got to market very well.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Just be sure to declare a fair market value. "Seconds" go for maybe half -- Ross and the other apparel seconds marketers are a good place to get a price range. You won't make money by donating, but at least you can put your extras and samples to good use, and save a bit off your taxes. Just be sure if you want to declare a deduction beyond the $500 miscellaneous they allow that it's a full 501(c).


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> Just be sure to declare a fair market value. "Seconds" go for maybe half -- Ross and the other apparel seconds marketers are a good place to get a price range. You won't make money by donating, but at least you can put your extras and samples to good use, and save a bit off your taxes. Just be sure if you want to declare a deduction beyond the $500 miscellaneous they allow that it's a full 501(c).


Figure I got a lot of stuff laying around just taking up space anyway so could whittle down my "donation" to our socialist govt.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> But if you leave it off then when turned back on it does the automatic head cleaning thing. So that would seem to use more ink.


Good point. I had forgot about that.

I do leave mine on and if I have nothing to print, I at least do a nozzle check every couple weeks. I have no complaints at this time.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> You are now on your 3rd Ricoh, not printing frequently or keeping the printer off doesn't seem wise to me, especially if you go back and read the dead Ricoh threads and review the user printing habits for all those reporting dead printers.


I should clarify that my other Ricohs didn't die. The nozzles plugged up early on and I couldn't unclog them. Actually, one came that way.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mn shutterbug said:


> I should clarify that my other Ricohs didn't die. The nozzles plugged up early on and I couldn't unclog them. Actually, one came that way.


I think you mean that your motherboard didn't get blown out (die) due to the inks, like so many of the others? 

But the end result was the same ... you still couldn't use the printers, and your defect was ink delivery related. I only point this out because I suspect your printing habits was the reason for you having premature failure of your printers except for the one that was bad out of the box.

The moral to the story, Epson or Ricoh for sublimation, use them or lose them.

Anyway, let's hope your new printer works out better for you. 

As you mentioned before, the newer model you have is not as expensive. All my Epson desktops I have had at some point become "disposible". The smaller model is not so much risk, but I think the GX7000/7700 models are way too expensive to be considered disposible.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

This printer is no longer new. The warranty expired 2 months ago, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Barb,
> 
> When people mention that a Ricoh has less clog issues it is due to the fact that your printer, while powered on and in "standby", is using your inks to keep the heads clear, even when you are not printing or doing a head clean. This is the reason for the perception that Ricoh's clog less than Epsons.
> 
> ...


What's the proper way to maintain an Epson 1400 with refillable carts?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jasonsmith said:


> What's the proper way to maintain an Epson 1400 with refillable carts?


1. Print frequently.
2. Make sure you fill and prime your carts properly using the instructions supplied by the cart vendor. Most refillable carts only need primed on the initial fill unless you let your inks go too low.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> 1. Print frequently.
> 2. Make sure you fill and prime your carts properly using the instructions supplied by the cart vendor. Most refillable carts only need primed on the initial fill unless you let your inks go too low.


Mine didn't come with instructions.

How do you prime the carts? When I refill mine, I have to pull the cart out, and refill it on the table, then put the cart back in. I think the Epson 1400 does a head cleaning whenever you remove/install carts. I usually have to do head cleanings when I refill ink anyways as I usually get sections missing on a nozzle check after refilling the carts.

One problem I had on the refillable carts is usually it doesn't show the correct amount of ink on the computer. And I never get a low ink warning. (I'm assuming Epson 1400 gives a low ink warning like other printers?)

So I've actually ran out of ink a few times while printing just because I can never really know the ink level without pulling the carts out and looking all the time. But then it does a head cleaning when I do that and wastes ink.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jasonsmith said:


> Mine didn't come with instructions.
> 
> How do you prime the carts?
> 
> ...


I marked up in your questions above.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

I should also point out that _best case_ there is 2 auto head clean cycles when you swap carts ... in some cases 1 or 2 manual head cleans may need to be performed additionally if when you swap carts and the auto head cleaning doesn't give a good nozzle check. Same thing when you swap back. Cheap inks may not be a big deal costwise, Sawgrass inks costs could add up quickly.


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