# Blotchy sub printing



## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Hello all, 
Been a reader here for awhile but this is my first post. Help! I am trying to sub print on nylon fabric but prints are coming out blotchy and faded. I got my paper and ink on ebay, think that may be the problem?
And, can anyone tell me the very best sublimation paper and ink to use with a epsom 1100, and where I can get some?


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## FabricWorx (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi,
Very often faded sublimation prints are the result of the fabric not being pure polyester or nylon. If you can, check the composition of the fabric.

Hope this helps solve the problem.


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## Shawneshawn (Apr 25, 2011)

Aloha,
I agree with fabricworks, also I would only by sub paper from a reputable company, paper quality is important. As far as sub ink for epson 1100 don't waste your money ,you will spend a small fortune on ink and have never ending problems.buy a printer that is a quality printer made to handle sub ink . You can buy a ricoh 3300 turnkey system for $450.00 and it will come with 100 free sheet of paper.you will spend that much on ink alone for the epson plus you will have a whole lot of problems.I use the ricoh and have had great sucess , the piezo head gel sprinter is in my opinion a great set up for sublimation. Also you might be getting blotched prints due to un even print surface like seams,wrinkels, and such. Make sure nothing is in the way of your total print area, I have had similar problems due to careless preperation
conde systems has a ton of videos on you tube about doing sublimation
I hope this helps you ......... Shawn


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## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks FW,
As far as I know it is 100% nylon, but it is the stretchy stuff, sport jersey I think it's called. The worst colors that blotch up are the dark ink colors like black ink on orange. Man, it looks like I pained it with a sponge. Thanks for the reply.


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## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks Shawn,
I had that feeling, that the 1100 was not going to be good enough. Man, I wish I wasn't such a cheap bas****. I should have joined this forum and asked questions first.
Thanks again, I will look into the ricoh right now.


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## FabricWorx (Apr 22, 2011)

pathfinder said:


> Thanks Shawn,
> I had that feeling, that the 1100 was not going to be good enough. Man, I wish I wasn't such a cheap bas****. I should have joined this forum and asked questions first.
> Thanks again, I will look into the ricoh right now.


There is no doubt that the Ricoh printers with subli inks are the better option over the Epson, but no need to beat yourself up about purchasing the Epson 1100. I am sure there are many thousands of people using the Epson printer for sublimation printing (myself one of them & no major problems).

It would be best to follow the earlier advise regarding better quality inks & paper first, then to check the fabric (is it actually suitable for sublimation printing) and then to check pressing times & pressure.
Hope you are able to resolve your problem.


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## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks again FW.
I am wicked disappointed in the results I am getting so far with the workforce 1100 and the paper and ink that I got on ebay.

I'm tempted to try another paper but the ink is too expensive to be buying just to try.
I looked at the GX3300 printer this morning and added it to my wish list, but this time I want to be sure that it will work.
Maybe, just maybe, I'll try some different paper on the 1100 first but I have my doubts. Are you certain that the Ricoh 3300 will print good clear non blotchy prints? I don't want to spend more than the 500 bucks but if I need to I can spend a little more for peace of mind.
Thanks again!


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## okiebruce (Dec 15, 2009)

I've used epsons for over ten years for sublimation. Had good luck with them so your 1100 should work. Can you get some polyester fabric to try your setup on? 
What is your time and temp in the heat press?
I do sublimation on metal and my setup in the heat press is teflon, paper towel, transfer paper, my metal face down taped to the transfer paper, paper towel, teflon.

Since I started using paper towels, I have not had any blotchiness.

Bruce


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

pathfinder said:


> Thanks again FW.
> I am wicked disappointed in the results I am getting so far with the workforce 1100 and the paper and ink that I got on ebay.
> 
> I'm tempted to try another paper but the ink is too expensive to be buying just to try.
> ...


I have been around printers and graphic applications for long time. I had not ventured into sublimation because I read in this forum and others about the related problems with the Epson printers, ink clogging, people just giving up on it because of all the issues etc. The Ricoh gel system came on the scene and I guess I have looked at the system for a couple of years now. I have heard pros and cons about it. I wanted to try it, but I simply didn't have $1300 to spend on the 7000 series machine. Then came the 3300. OK, for $450 I can try this. I did. I have had the printer for about 3 weeks now. 
I got it in, unboxed it, stuck in the ink cartridges. David Gross from Conde had told me to call when I got it setup and he would set up the driver, profile and color management for me for Corel Draw. I called and 15 minutes later I was printing. 
I have seen a lot of desktop prints before and also I have a 12 color Canon wide format printer. The output from this printer, when sublimated on hardgoods or a Vapor garment just absolutely blew me away. It is fast and clean. I am very happy with my purchase. 
I cannot say whether or not this little printer will meet your needs forever, hopefully not as your business grows. What I know for sure is that it is a good printer for me as a start up system.


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## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Hello Okie,
Thanks for the info. It would be nice if I didn't need to buy another one. I would still keep the 1100 as it seems to do ok with small lettering. Thing is, I can see the blotching clearly on the paper image before I even print it. Then of course it looks like the image. What do you think, Paper or Ink?
Now I just wish I didn't blow 200 bucks on ink from someone on ebay.


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## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Hi LB,
Thanks for the info also. $1300 bucks is big pill to swallow here too. 
Don't think I like that pill. I am printing on nylon covered neoprene. Like dive and wind surfer suits and it's blotchy as hell, even on the paper before I put it in the press.
Thats why I'm thinking that it's either the paper or ink, or, cheap printer.


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## okiebruce (Dec 15, 2009)

Might try printing an image on regular paper, won't do for sublimation but you can find out if it is your paper or not. What brand of paper do you have? Printing on correct side of paper? The settings on your printer for what kind of paper?

Bruce


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Path - dye sub is tricky especially when you start out and you really need someone to hold your hand. Regardless of what you here the printer you buy makes no difference to the quality of print you get. A printer is a printer is a printer. There are only two things that matter - the ink you use and the profile. crappy ink and a crappy profiel is going to get you poor results. High end quality ink and a profile to match will provide you amazing results with no clogs reagrdless which make/model you purchase.


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## pathfinder (Apr 28, 2011)

Nice to know rider. It seems now that I have it nailed down to the black and red being the culprits. For instance, I printed a scuba diver with a black wet suit and a red tank.
The tank came out red and orange and the suit came out black and grey.
I'm about as frustrated as I can get. 
Thanks again.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

its not realistic to think you can buy cheap ink off the web and have it work correctly. You really need an ICC profile that is made to match your printer, ink, paper, and substrate.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Shawneshawn said:


> Aloha,
> I agree with fabricworks, also I would only by sub paper from a reputable company, paper quality is important. *As far as sub ink for epson 1100 don't waste your money ,you will spend a small fortune on ink and have never ending problems*.buy a printer that is a quality printer *made to handle sub ink *. You can buy a ricoh 3300 turnkey system for $450.00 and it will come with 100 free sheet of paper.you will spend that much on ink alone for the epson plus you will have a whole lot of problems.I use the ricoh and have had great sucess , the *piezo head* gel sprinter is in my opinion a great set up for sublimation. Also you might be getting blotched prints due to un even print surface like seams,wrinkels, and such. Make sure nothing is in the way of your total print area, I have had similar problems due to careless preperation
> conde systems has a ton of videos on you tube about doing sublimation
> I hope this helps you ......... Shawn


Shawn, 

The Ricoh was not designed to handle sub inks, where do you get that? It was designed for pigment inks and office printing.

Is your observation based on actually using a WF1100? 

I've had mine over 1 1/2 years now and been using Epsons for sublimation from the "get go". The WF1100 is the best desktop printer Epson has ever made if you use it for heat transfer. I have no problems with it. 

Go through the threads here compare the number of WF1100 complaints with Ricoh G7000 complaints.

Epson's also use piezo heads BTW, it's not unique to Ricoh. 

The printer is not what is causing the persons problem, he already bought a WF1100 that many of us use sucessfully and you tell him to buy something else without really knowing what his problem is?

Cutting corners and not getting known good inks and papers, a proven profile, and not knowing if his substrate is even suitable for what he is doing are the likely causes of this problem.

The SG Ricoh sub inks represent the latest advances in ink manufacturing, the "legacy" inks from SG including Artanium are 10 year old technology. Ink jet dye and pigment particles can be made much smaller and more consistant today using the latest manufacturing milling and control technology. 

Some of the non-SG sub inks from Italy and places other than China are used in the wide format printers are there NOW with the newer technology. 3 years from now those inks will be in my inexpensive Epson desktop, some I know use them in Epson's now and absolutely love the results.

SG can't go back and replace those "legacy" inks with the "latest and greatest" because they would "break" existing art from customers that reprint the same design job over and over. 

Based on what Ricoh users are reporting, and even a few vendors have stated on other forums, the ink costs SG Ricoh vs SG Epson desktop are about 30 % cheaper. But who controls those costs?

*But I get my Artanium inks at half off so bet ya I'm printing cheaper than you are. These are "legal" inks, not out of date, and I can buy them anytime, as do many others. *

_With the Ricoh SG had an opportunity to start with better inks, no "legacy" problems existed, and it's SG that is controlling the pricing (for now), so don't blame the printer._

Using pigments "gel inks" in the G500 Ricoh I had it was not as good as my WF1100 is now.

It's the inks and the company that has a monopoly on those inks that is problem, they control the pricing and the quality of the inks. We could have cheaper and better inks for the WF1100 _today_ if SG wanted, but they don't want. 

Once the patent is expired my inks will be a small fraction of what you pay now and equal or better quality, and you will be still be locked into your Ricoh with expensive Sawgrass inks due to the technology lock-in they will have on the Ricoh.

The Ricoh was not "made for sublimation", Sawgrass putting state of the art inks in Ricoh and not in the Epson is the problem. Most people that have banding and clogging problems with desktop Epsons and sublimation is because they think they can let it sit for extended periods of time without printing. 

Michael


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Great post Michael. The previous post show the power Sawgrass cartel has over the market. They have people convinced that Epsons clog. Wake up people printers do not clog - inks clog. The brand or model of a printer makes no difference. Put crappy old ink (Artainium/SubliJet) in any printer and it will clog and destroy print heads. 

I am not buying the reason SG does offer high quality ink to the desktop market is because it will break existing clients artwork. What about new clients? Why are they not given a choice which ink to use - Sublim or Artainium just like the wide format printers? There is much more to the story that we again will never know becuase the SG Cartel is so small and protective. Heck I would be as well if I sold an outdated product at 10 times the market price.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Great post Michael. The previous post show the power Sawgrass cartel has over the market. They have people convinced that Epsons clog. Wake up people printers do not clog - inks clog. The brand or model of a printer makes no difference. Put crappy old ink (Artainium/SubliJet) in any printer and it will clog and destroy print heads.
> 
> I am not buying the reason SG does offer high quality ink to the desktop market is because it will break existing clients artwork. What about new clients? Why are they not given a choice which ink to use - Sublim or Artainium just like the wide format printers? There is much more to the story that we again will never know becuase the SG Cartel is so small and protective. Heck I would be as well if I sold an outdated product at 10 times the market price.


Breaking existing art files is only really one consideration, yes they have other motives to not improve "legacy ink". I think they want to steer new users into Ricohs where there will be either no competition once the patent expires, or a much slower to evolve market for sub ink competitors. 

With the existing Epson aftermarket structure here in the US a much easier entry for new sub ink vendors going to Epson, as well as the printer costs differences Epson vs. Ricoh making a higher barrier to entry as well for the end users.

When SG bought out TOG the users got hosed, they got offered a time limited price reduction if they (the TOG users) switched over to Artanium, but with existing graphics art files .. I know several people who had to redo each existing customer file when the re-orders came thru.

When SG settled with and bought Artanium they bought the inks and the brand name, so the settlement was less a problem for existing Artanium users.

They (SG) could offer a new improved formulation and run it in "parallel" to the existing inks, but would not really add additional revenues for them, would only "dilute" their existing legacy inks sales. 

Michael


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

pathfinder said:


> Hi LB,
> Thanks for the info also. $1300 bucks is big pill to swallow here too.
> Don't think I like that pill. I am printing on nylon covered neoprene. Like dive and wind surfer suits and it's blotchy as hell, even on the paper before I put it in the press.
> Thats why I'm thinking that it's either the paper or ink, or, cheap printer.


More than likely it's the ink.


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