# permaset, versatex or plastisol?



## inkpony (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi. What would your recommendation be.... 
I print from home onto organic cotton onesies. I've been using Speedball waterbased ink, which is terrible. 
After asking around, people suggested that I try one of the three: permaset, versatex or a plastisol ink.

What would you suggest?
Also, what are the differences between all of the permaset varieties? How do I know which 'type' to buy?

Thanks for any help.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

One thing is for sure, skip the plastisol.

I suggest Permaset. It's a fantastic ink. I think you'll find it much more user friendly than Speedball.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

neato said:


> One thing is for sure, skip the plastisol.
> 
> I suggest Permaset. It's a fantastic ink. I think you'll find it much more user friendly than Speedball.



Why skip plastisol? and can you explain what Permaset is?


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

That's just my personal opinion. After having worked with plastisol for a couple years, I've fallen in love with the properties and excellent results of waterbased inks. And the fact that I don't need to use as many cleaning chemicals when cleaning up. That was the main reason I switched. 

Don't get me wrong, plastisol is easier to work with in some ways. But if I was starting over knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have bothered with it.

Just an opinion. Not trying to start a debate.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

neato said:


> That's just my personal opinion. After having worked with plastisol for a couple years, I've fallen in love with the properties and excellent results of waterbased inks. And the fact that I don't need to use as many cleaning chemicals when cleaning up. That was the main reason I switched.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, plastisol is easier to work with in some ways. But if I was starting over knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have bothered with it.
> 
> Just an opinion. Not trying to start a debate.


oh of course, not looking for a debate either. Just wanted to know what permaset ink was, cause it's new to me. I'm a new screen printer and would like to know as much as possible. I've read alot about water base and plastisol, but not much on permaset. 

Can you give more detail on the clean up of permaset? So far my experience with plastisol, I use one chem. spray and just wipe. How about permaset?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Somighty said:


> I've read alot about water base and plastisol, but not much on permaset.


Permaset is one specific brand of waterbased ink.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

Solmu said:


> Permaset is one specific brand of waterbased ink.


Thank you. How is the clean up process with permaset?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Somighty said:


> Thank you. How is the clean up process with permaset?


Same as other waterbased inks: a pretty simple washout using water.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

I've been really considering going waterbased... But my biggest concern is "clogging", now that I've moved on to higher mesh counts and printing halftones... Is it possible to do that with waterbased inks without a problem?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Somighty said:


> Is it possible to do that with waterbased inks without a problem?


It's certainly possible to do it, but I'd be reluctant to say without a problem


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

well ya, anything is possible, but are there waterbased printers out there who do achieve such methods? I just hate the plastic, shiny feel I get with plastisol, even after using additives like soft hand or a reducer. Maybe I haven't found the right ratio?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Somighty said:


> well ya, anything is possible, but are there waterbased printers out there who do achieve such methods?


Absolutely. I didn't mean possible merely in the _anything is possible_ sense, but rather in the _achievable, but I wouldn't want to give the impression that it's always going to be easy_ sense.

Also, some inks (and some substrates) are easier than others. Lascaux kind of suck when it comes to drying in the screen for example (in my experience).



Somighty said:


> I just hate the plastic, shiny feel I get with plastisol, even after using additives like soft hand or a reducer. Maybe I haven't found the right ratio?


I can't really speak to that since I don't use (or like) plastisol, but it certainly has its proponents here who would claim you just need to find the right combination (I remain skeptical).


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Permaset prices seem expensive to me. Maybe because it's imported? Has anyone found a reasonably priced source?


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

Solmu said:


> Also, some inks (and some substrates) are easier than others. Lascaux kind of suck when it comes to drying in the screen for example (in my experience).


Not drying in the screen, that's a good thing right?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

splathead said:


> Permaset prices seem expensive to me. Maybe because it's imported?


Bizarrely, despite being made by a company named Colormaker (i.e. not Colo*u*rmaker) they're Australian. I've always taken them for granted, so I'm surprised to see the international interest. Especially since I'd been trying to source Matsui inks after reading all the praise for them. I guess the grass is always greener.

The only US distributor they list on their website is Armadillo Art: Welcome To Armadillo Art & Craft! - so try them if you haven't already.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Somighty said:


> Not drying in the screen, that's a good thing right?


Right. You want the ink to dry on the substrate, not on the screens. If it dries in the screen it will clog, preventing further prints.


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

Solmu said:


> Right. You want the ink to dry on the substrate, not on the screens. If it dries in the screen it will clog, preventing further prints.


Before I knew there was a difference, I was actually screenprinting on a homebrewed press I built, using speedball ink. In hindsight, it is infact a waterbased ink. My biggest problem that I had with it when print fine detail was clogging. I had to wipe the screen down with a wet cloth between each print to ensure I got the detail. Is this a common problem? Or is it just speedball inks?


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I am also using speedball and am interested in permaset.
I went to the website and cannot find any pricing on it,
any body know distributors?
thanks


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Somighty said:


> Is this a common problem? Or is it just speedball inks?


Bit of both. It's worse with Speedball, and it's worse when you're starting out, and it's worse if you don't realise you're printing with a waterbased ink and take that into account. But it happens with all waterbased inks if you let them dry out. I've found Permaset opaque inks dry out pretty badly for example (that's why I was interested in Matsui).


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

sjidohair said:


> any body know distributors?


They're listed on their website.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Many waterbased inks these days can be printed through higher mesh counts with halftones. There have been a LOT of advanced in WB within the last couple of years making them quite user friendly, right up there with plastisol.


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## staned (Feb 25, 2007)

the big secret is that water base inks are easier to print with. stan


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

sjidohair said:


> I am also using speedball and am interested in permaset.
> I went to the website and cannot find any pricing on it,
> any body know distributors?
> thanks


Dick Blick retails it if you want to test it and they are close to you.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Shhh....Quiet Stan!


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## Somighty (Aug 29, 2008)

staned said:


> the big secret is that water base inks are easier to print with. stan


in all seriousness, is it really? And how so? Comparing to plastisol ink. I'm strongly considering switching.


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## staned (Feb 25, 2007)

whoops, i let the cat out of the bag. sorry phillip, i bad. stan


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## saturnstroll (Aug 19, 2008)

Okay, looking for permaset prices? You may regret that question, but here you go:

First, if you want to visit armadilloart, you must add the "www" before the domain: www.armadilloart.com
For whatever server/domain related reason, if you don't, you go to their _old_ website.
If you're looking at a giant painting palette, wow, you've made it to their new site.

K, once you're actually in, click 'screen printing ink' link.
You'll see a little pyramid of permaset ink containers. Click that. Permaset info to follow.
Now for pricing, click the green splat of paint at the top right that says 'Price List'.
Download their price file.

NOW, let's get to the nitty gritty.
If I read their list correctly, the pricing absolutely sucks.
A gallon of aqua supercover first down white costs $183.80 !!! (4 liters at $45.95 per liter)
But a gallon of plastisol white only costs $30 to $45. Hmmmmm......

That a VERY significant difference.
... A drop a plop in your pants big difference.

From their demo videos, (look on www.youtube.com), their product looks, wears, stretches, etc... absolutely awesome.
But if I have to pay those prices, there's no way in hades.

Anyone know where to find reasonable pricing? 
(something comparable to say, Matsui water-based ink prices)

????


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## the great enzo (Sep 21, 2008)

inkpony said:


> Hi. What would your recommendation be....
> I print from home onto organic cotton onesies. I've been using Speedball waterbased ink, which is terrible.
> After asking around, people suggested that I try one of the three: permaset, versatex or a plastisol ink.
> 
> ...


Hi, If you're going organic, or certanly if you're going "green", water-based is better, so that points to Permaset or Versatex.
In the Permaset range, ther are 2 major categories, standard (transparent) + SuperCover (SC; opaque), the latter designed for prnting direct over dark garments. The transparents have much softer handle whereas the SCs are more opaque.


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