# What would you do if someone offered to pay for EVERYTHING?



## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

I have someone who would like to buy me anything I need... To the tune of $6k or so. 

I mean screen printing equipment and supplies. 

We r basically starting a brand... or 2.

Any advice?


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

Well, more info would be great.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

What's in it for the person putting up the money? I'm guessing they don't print, otherwise they wouldn't need you. Do they intend to work in the business, or are they just planning on pulling money out of sales?
Most partnerships don't work, just as a heads-up. If, in six months, there are no sales, and they want to sell the equipment, where does that leave you? The reason I ask is I bought my press slightly used from a partnership where one party put up the money, and the other party did the work, except in that case, they didn't like printing because it was hot at night after their regular job. The poor sap who put up the money took it in the shorts when time came to sell. I got their 4-month old Vastex 2000HD 6-color for $3000. Myself, and the rest of the vultures who scored on that sale are the only ones who "made out" in that partnership.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

In general, go solo. In a partnership you have to clearly define the role of each partner to avoid future misunderstanding. Usually, an inactive partner is better.

So, what's the deal?

BTW Tom. What is the vastex 25 year anti-warping warranty platen made of?


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## BigJim (Dec 26, 2010)

BroJames said:


> Usually, an *i**nactive partner* is better.



Ah yes.... you've met my wife then.


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## foot print (Jun 2, 2010)

Don't do it..!! 2 friends of mine had caviar dreams on a bologna budget. Neither had any idea how to run a business or screen print. I was suckered into doing the printing them. Let's just say the business is no longer and the friendships are long gone.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

1. reserve a couple hundos and register an LLC with the state...
2. buy corel or cs5... learn how to use graphics illustration software. 
3. create a meaningful online presence (initially a decent "about us)" site, then look book, then ecommerce) 
4. buy equipment lightly used when you can. You will save 50%
5. save 2k for operating capital
6. reserve some for a marketing budget (line cards, business cards, sale sheets, online banner ads, local signs & banners, vehicle graphics, give away promo items, etc...) 
7. make a business plan that also includes a detailed marketing plan


I have always said this... equipment is not the important part when starting a business but it seems to be what people like to obsess about. The most important thing is how you are going to keep your equipment operating 8 hrs a day. Where are your customers going to come from? How will they find out about you? Why will they buy from you instead of wherever they have been up until now?

Buying a screen press does not put you in business any more than buying a skillet puts you in the restaurant business. It is how you operate & market your business that will determine how well you do... not what squeegee you bought.

Even so, lets talk about equipment...you need to be able to:
1. Design Shirts: Computer, Design Software, Art collections
2. Produce Transparencies: Separations software, large format B/W epson printer
3. Handle Screens: scoop coater, brushes, scrapers, squeegees, washout booth, power washer, screen drying rack, storage cabinet/shelves for chemicals, dip tank, various screen chemicals 
4. Exposure Screens... exposure unit, preferable metal halide, 400-1000w, single bulb, with vacuum top
5. Print Shirts. Youneed a press/// but what kind depends on budget & business plan. No less then a 6 color 2 station with micro registration so you can do a simulated process job - CMYK + white underbase + white highlights. 
6. Finishing equipment: Flash cure, conveyor dryer, spot remover with cleaning fluid, rolling bin, folding table 
7. Vinyl Setup: plotter (GX24, CE5000m etc), heat press, vinyl storage racks, weeding table, transfer tape, big squeegee,silicone sheets/pillows
8. Online sales? Then you need a Shipping/Receiving Station: Boxes, Envelopes, Tape gun, packing material, label printers, postage printer, inventory & accounting management software, warehouse shelving. 

You can spend alot of money buying these things, or you can build most of them yourself. (spending time instead of money). 

You can also find almost everything on Craigslist... almost everyday there is someone selling a complete screen shop. You can get some good deals on lightly used equipment. 

The most important thing is to make sure YOU are not that guy selling his shop in 2-3 years on craigslist.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

BroJames said:


> In general, go solo. In a partnership you have to clearly define the role of each partner to avoid future misunderstanding. Usually, an inactive partner is better.
> 
> So, what's the deal?
> 
> BTW Tom. What is the vastex 25 year anti-warping warranty platen made of?


Steel. They're stamped out with a rounded edge to keep the face from warping. The entire press is pretty much built as welded box beam construction, which, for the dimensions of the parts, is much lighter than solid steel would be. Kind of like the way a car is built these days. The exception is the center post, which, with the bearings and races, are held to such tight tolerances, that separating the two carousels is a *****, but there's absolutely NO wobble. The rubber platen tops are the only part that would ever need replacing, and even then, I really cooked one accidentally, and it cleaned up nicely. Very heat resistant rubber. The edges tend to lift a little, but I've secured them with some blue painters tape at the corners, and I never have problems. Use platen tape for the face to keep the rubber clean.


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> I have someone who would like to buy me anything I need... To the tune of $6k or so.
> 
> I mean screen printing equipment and supplies.
> 
> ...


Get legal contracts put together spelling everything out. 
 …you have some very nice designs! 
Make sure if you can you are not being taken advantage of due to your artistic ability! 
CW


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## tntawards (Sep 29, 2009)

jirby
The best advice i've heard all day!


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

You are young, talented, full of enthusiasm. So this could be a person that is successful and recognizing these things wants nothing more than to just be able to help you get started and achieve your potential. If that is the case there would be little if nothing in it for them other than the satisfaction. They wont be requiring any control, or profits, and will be very flexible as far as paying them back if requiring it at all.

On the other hand it could be a person that recognizing those same things is trying to take advantage of you and wants to profit off your talent. You might lose control not only of your business, but also future ideas. I would have an attorney review any agreement that is being required of you to sign. Have that attorney explain in plain english exactly what you might be giving up.

I would advise in making this decision that you try (as hard as it might be) to make sure to not make any decisions based on emotions. Don't get so enthused that you don't look objectively at exactly what you are getting into.

One more thing. One of the most satisfying thing in my opinion is starting a company from scratch and going through the struggles in order to become successful. Being independent and doing it your way, from your own vision has some genuine benefits as your grow your business over the years. Unfortunately many too often overlook this in their eagerness to want to be "big" immediately. Sometimes shortcuts may work for you, but sometimes shortcuts, while seeming to make you get there faster might actually be a hindrance in your achieving the real substantial growth that comes later on when the growth is more meaningful. Kind of like the old tortoise and the hare story.


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

Well said, Louie2010!


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## bomber315 (Jun 18, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> I have someone who would like to buy me anything I need... To the tune of $6k or so.
> Any advice?


get out of the bar and talk to them sober... honestly i make alot of contacts in a bar but most of them are complete BS


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## gotshirtz001 (Sep 23, 2008)

There is no such thing as a free lunch...

Unless this I'd your dad buying you stuff for graduating college (which you had better do), I would graciously decline the offer... But I think we would all still 
like to hear the offer.

If you need a good deal on equipment, I have lots of really good equipment that would will last you until you upgrade to an automatic.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

bomber315 said:


> get out of the bar and talk to them sober... honestly i make alot of contacts in a bar but most of them are complete BS


either that or make sure your in a bar when you both sign contracts, lol


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

This lady is like... a millionaire. I'm not joking. She has recently become very good friends with my sister. She is an older women with no kids and tons of money. She basically wants to get my sister started with her own clothing line. So guess what? The lady is putting up the money, my sister, who doesn't even know how to use a computer or have any artistic ability is leaving the designing and all the work up to me. 

But, along with her stuff, I get to work on my brand as well.


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> This lady is like... a millionaire. I'm not joking. She has recently become very good friends with my sister. She is an older women with no kids and tons of money.


I would still get an legal agreement between all of you. If she is truly a millionaire she didn’t get that way by spending her money on a whim. Please don’t take this the wrong way. You just need to make sure you all understand what is expected. She made the offer to your sister; does she now know you are in on the deal as well? Just make sure you are covering you **** so there are no misunderstandings later on.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Is it a gift? Is she giving your sister the money, no stings attached? Or is she investing in her, with expectations of a return on that investment.

If it is truly a gift, and your sister is comfortable taking that amount of money from her then be gracious. Also try remember to show your appreciation from time to time by telling her about how things are going, she will be joyed to hear about your progress. Basically at least include her in a little of the fun.

If she is investing in your sister and expecting a return on that investment, get everything in writing and have an attorney read and advise you before signing anything.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

It's an investment and of course we r making a legal contract


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

In that case I would really think about if it is in your best interest for the long term. Did you read my post from a few hours ago? 

I have had businesses with partners and businesses without. Having done both, I much prefer without.

There are many benefits in going it alone, even if early on it takes longer to get where you want to be.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

kc6789 said:


> It's an investment and of course we r making a legal contract


I hope u dont rite the contract like that. 

And beware, just because there is a contract in place, doesn't mean she can't sue you later on for whatever $ she wants. If you can't afford to hire a good lawyer and pay legal fees, she will most likely win her case.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

How about a contract saying that we have 30 months to make back the $5k, and only after that can she reclaim the things she bought?


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> I have someone who would like to buy me anything I need... To the tune of $6k or so.
> 
> I mean screen printing equipment and supplies.
> 
> ...


6K can go a long way or not be enough! I don’t want this to sound like I am picking on you because I’m not you are very creative and artistic…but how many logos have you shown on this site… please make sure this is what you really need right now… it will be a good learning experience for you… I hope it is a good one.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

kc6789 said:


> How about a contract saying that we have 30 months to make back the $5k, and only after that can she reclaim the things she bought?


This is what I'm talking about...hire a lawyer to write up a good contract. That right there is not a good contract.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

If all she wants is the money back and not a % of the business, then set it up as a loan. Maybe interest only for the first two years, and then amortize the balance for a set period of time after that. Use the equipment and inventory as collateral.


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

I’m all for the saying “You don’t know unless you try!” However, even without all the information, I’m getting a funny feeling about this. I would walk away, but that is just me. 
You and your sister have to make the decision. Should I ask, what your Dad has to say about this. Also, are you old enough to enter into a legal contract with someone? 
Oh, returning 5K in 30 months or she takes back the equipment or what she has purchased… is the depreciation value of the equipment figured into this? Also I hope the economy picks up in the next 30 months…that’s a lot of shirts.


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## JohnBee (Nov 28, 2010)

(assuming she'd buy everything as a gift...)

i'd...

A)
1. buy (attend) screen printing workshop at ryonet
2. buy plane ticket to ryonet (optional)

B)
3. buy a computer (optional if you already have one)
4. buy an Adobe Illustrator program (or CorelDraw)
5. buy a Photoshop program
6. buy a month of subscription at lynda.com (to learn photoshop and illustrator)
7. LASER printer (that can print up to 11x17)


C)
8. Pretty much section "C" you already know because these are the equipment and supplies you saw/used/learned from your workshop at ryonet (6/4 or 4/2 screen press, flash dryer, printing inks and supplies, etc...)....BUT conveyor dryer maybe not yet recommended at this point because you're just starting out and learning the trade. But go for it if you think you're going to be in big production right away.

(note: i hear good things about ryonet workshops and their products that's why i recommend it on the list....)

My list is in sections (A,B,C) because that's how I best see this screen printing trade....one section is as important as the others.... and that's how i would approach to learn it....

Don't worry about the business side for now...... enjoy printing first.


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## bomber315 (Jun 18, 2010)

at first i didnt realize it was kacie asking the question....

alright i cant help it... kacie for the love of everything holy get off the computer and print some stuff... it seems your hobby is thinking about printing shirts instead of doing it... you have been planning all of this stuff longer than i have owned equipment... if you would would just get the ball rolling you would be making some money by now! heck you have been a member since march and post on average between 2 and three times a day, everyday... honestly whats the hold up go to ryonet and buy thier starter 4x2 press and get down to business... print a bunch of stuff and come across some real questions... i know your only 21 and you probably dont have alot of business experience but theres only one way to learn ( didnt know **** about business 10 months ago)... git r dun bud!... im not trying to rag on you or piss you off just hoping maybe a little kick in the @$$ will make something happen... and ps dont take someone elses money... and here is a reason different than what everyone else is saying.... if you take her money you, dont really have to succeed, but if its YOUR money or YOUR loan YOU HAVE TO MAKE MONEY! and YOU WILL!

phew there i said it hahaha


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

bomber315 said:


> at first i didnt realize it was kacie asking the question....
> 
> alright i cant help it... kacie for the love of everything holy get off the computer and print some stuff... it seems your hobby is thinking about printing shirts instead of doing it... you have been planning all of this stuff longer than i have owned equipment... if you would would just get the ball rolling you would be making some money by now! heck you have been a member since march and post on average between 2 and three times a day, everyday... honestly whats the hold up go to ryonet and buy thier starter 4x2 press and get down to business... print a bunch of stuff and come across some real questions... i know your only 21 and you probably dont have alot of business experience but theres only one way to learn ( didnt know **** about business 10 months ago)... git r dun bud!... im not trying to rag on you or piss you off just hoping maybe a little kick in the @$$ will make something happen... and ps dont take someone elses money... and here is a reason different than what everyone else is saying.... if you take her money you, dont really have to succeed, but if its YOUR money or YOUR loan YOU HAVE TO MAKE MONEY! and YOU WILL!
> 
> phew there i said it hahaha


I printed the Siamese Twin design for myself last night! 

Once again, this is for my sisters brand and business. I'm just the bi+ch worker. But I do get to use the equipment for my own shirt making.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

if i have two cents to offer id say squeeze a bit more out of her, i initially started off thinking two grand was enough to get some amateur equipment, and a label going, and as questions and complications kept popping up, the answers kept pointing to more equipment, or better equipment. and that two thousand dollars went to four thousand, then eight thousand, then ten, and now at twelve thousand dollars, im starting to realize that its enough for the equipment, but not enough for starting everything that goes into creating a brand.

now this approtch is reasonably strict. I want to produce professional product at what ever reasonable lengths necessary, and ive learned that to produce the best you need at least the standard. So i avoided cutting as many corners as possible. And while 12 grand is twice as much as this lady has offered, your end result will be infinatly more productive, professional, and profitable.

im assuming you dont know much about printing,(if not i apologize) and idealy this is a long term project, since this is all very new to you guys, approaching this with as much attention as you can, and as little impulse as possible, you'll end up as best off as you could be.

all and all, id take the money as a loan, pay the money back in monthly payments that you can afford working your daytime jobs. if your depend on your new business paying for its self, you setting up for possible disaster, any of which has already been touched on in this thread.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> I printed the Siamese Twin design for myself last night!
> 
> Once again, this is for my sisters brand and business. I'm just the bi+ch worker. But I do get to use the equipment for my own shirt making.


also the whole, "this is my sisters thing and im just using it" is a little fishy. no matter how you guys look at it your entering a partnership with each other, and if only one person is liable i can only see problems in your guys future.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

> my sister, who doesn't even know how to use a computer or have any artistic ability is leaving the designing and all the work up to me.


Uh.. so what does the sister bring to the table? what did she do for a living last week? 
Why do you need her for anything?? Who is going to own the equipment that you guys purchase?

You need to think carefully about how you structure this deal. I'd do a corp with shares, then make sure you both are in 50/50. Treat the money from the crazy cat lady as an unsecured personal loan to the business... not to you individually. 

Partnerships, especially between siblings are very difficult to sustain. Someone eventually gets pissed off that the other one is not pulling their weight, or they do not agree about the direction of the business... or how the other is managing (or not managing) the money.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

jiarby said:


> Uh.. so what does the sister bring to the table? what did she do for a living last week?
> Why do you need her for anything?? Who is going to own the equipment that you guys purchase?
> 
> You need to think carefully about how you structure this deal. I'd do a corp with shares, then make sure you both are in 50/50. Treat the money from the crazy cat lady as an unsecured personal loan to the business... not to you individually.
> ...


DING!

I will never partner up with my brother ever again with anything revenue oriented.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

jiarby said:


> Treat the money from the crazy cat lady .....


LOL, Now that's funny!


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Please Be careful, Get everything in writing, seek legal advice on how to go about this.

So you are protected down the Road,.


Great luck to you


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

My sister brings the ideas to the table and I make them come to life on the computer. She will also be doing rhinestones and running the store. I'm just doing the screen printing and making her designs.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Store? Do you plan on opening a retail store with this money?


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

is she paying you for printing her shirts by allowing you to print your own?


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah she wants to open a store. 

I'm going to be printing her shirts, sometimes she won't need things printed. On my own time, I can print my own designs.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

With all due respect, from what I have read here I think you are both under capitalized, and could benefit from some additional experience first before you open a retail store. 

Crawl before you walk, walk before you run.


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

I would not take the money, but that is me. I'm sure that you and your sister are going to do what you think best, and live with whatever comes from it.

I'm going to go another way here though. I've been following your posts, or designs, and all. You have not prepared a business plan that I have heard about, I've not heard how you plan to sell these shirts...and so far it seems that everything is about your brand. You are thinking that everyone is going to want to advertise for you by wearing your brand/logo.

Even more important, I don't see where you know how to screen print. Even your first attempt at your logo has not worked out the way you would like it to.

I would suggest that when you take this money, you sit down a prepare a proper business plan, a direction for selling the product and then contract with someone local to print your first batch of shirts. While you are selling these shirts, go to Ryonet (you are so fortunate that they are close to you) and take the class they offer. You should also consider taking some business classes at a local college. You have to invest far more than just money to build your business.

Then, with the money you take in from these sales you should be ready to really determine if you are wanting to press your own. It is not all bad to build your brand and sell your designs made by someone else for a long time. Build your bank account so that you are purchasing equipment with your own funds.

Are you truly prepared to be without income for many months? It is unlikely that you will be making any this year.

You have some interesting designs, not my cup of tea, but you have an eye. Keep designing and start building your business.

Good luck

Doug


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

ONCE AGAIN, this is not my deal. This is all my sisters plan. I am simply the computer and screen print operator.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

OMG... no offense, but you need to run away. 

You will be out of business within 6 weeks after you spend all the seed money. 

No way you can open a retail store from scratch AND buy all your equipment for 6k. 

You will have to admit that you are pretty green about screen printing. You already said that your sister doesn't know anything and can't do anything. You have stated that you do not have even $50 of your own to register a business name. What makes you guys think that you can run a real business? $6k will be gone in 10 days. How will the business sustain itself after that? Have you written a business plan??

Is your sister paying you a salary to work for her? What is in it for you to do her work for free? 

Having "ideas" is not enough. You need to know how to run a business. You have to know how to sell. You need to know how to manufacture your products efficiently so you can price your product where it will sell in sufficient volume to make a profit. That is not as easy as it sounds. 

Tell us more about this retail adventure...



> I am simply the computer and screen print operator.


OK, so I see that this is not really your deal.. and that is a good thing. You will have access to someone else's equipment to use when you need it. BUT.. if you are the "computer and screen print operator" then you better start getting good at what you do pretty quick. Get a job working in someone else's screen printing shop and learn the ropes from the inside. On the side you can use your sisters stuff (until she goes broke and has to sell it all). On the plus side, maybe she will sell it to you for pennies on the dollar! Take those classes someone else mentioned... FAST!


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> ONCE AGAIN, this is not my deal. This is all my sisters plan. I am simply the computer and screen print operator.





> I have someone who would like to buy me anything I need... To the tune of $6k or so.
> 
> I mean screen printing equipment and supplies.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, this was from your first post, and I thought you were also going to be directly involved and that is why you were seeking advice.

Good luck to you and your sister.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

$5k will cover the OTHER equipment I'll need. She is going to buy the shirts and clothes I'll be printing too. I'm not saying we r getting that amount of money and that's it. She will pay for things as we need it. 

But yeah this kind of sounds like a cluster f**k waiting to happen. I can't tell me sister No tho. Her brain will malfunction. She sees this as a crazy awesome opportunity and she's getting mad that I'm kind of being a buzz kill. I'm just trying to be safe and responsible.


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

Kacie...I've still not heard how or where you plan on selling these shirts you will be making.

I think that you are living in the area se of portland, maybe in the McMinnville area or at least close...if so, there is a great market that runs there every summer that might be a good venue for you and your sister. I've heard also of some other small specialty shops opening up with some mix of consignment/sweat equity programs that you might check into. Farmers markets are quickly becoming more of a "open air market" environment in the NW meaning less food and more crafts/arts. You should perhaps consider these venues also.

Doug


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

jdoug5170 said:


> Kacie...I've still not heard how or where you plan on selling these shirts you will be making.
> 
> I think that you are living in the area se of portland, maybe in the McMinnville area or at least close...if so, there is a great market that runs there every summer that might be a good venue for you and your sister. I've heard also of some other small specialty shops opening up with some mix of consignment/sweat equity programs that you might check into. Farmers markets are quickly becoming more of a "open air market" environment in the NW meaning less food and more crafts/arts. You should perhaps consider these venues also.
> 
> Doug


Wow! U were really close! I live in Newberg. But none of my sisters shirts will be sold here. She lives in Newport Beach, CA. So the store would be down there. I'd move down there eventually.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> But yeah this kind of sounds like a cluster f**k waiting to happen. I can't tell me sister No tho. Her brain will malfunction. She sees this as a crazy awesome opportunity and she's getting mad that I'm kind of being a buzz kill. I'm just trying to be safe and responsible.



good to hear you got a head on your shoulders. it is a nice opportunity, but i think your sis is dreaming in a fantasy world. Be the realist that is a buzz kill, but dont drop the subject all together. 

if it really means alot to her, and she really wants to do it, shell learn how to make it work, the RIGHT way. but doing business on impulse is almost always a bad idea.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

sometimes a buzz needs killing.

Have you ever heard this phrase:
"Nothing personal, just business"

Step back for a few minutes... and think about what you would need to build the perfect business that couln't fail... 

You would have a killer product that appealed to everyone and was easy to distribute anywhere. 
You would have great equipment and know how to use it
You are very good at manufacturing workflow and are very efficient making your product to keep wast & scrap to a minimum. 
You would have the best design software and be effortlessly fluent in it. 
You would have an awesome online shop with lots of traffic and great SEO that sell loads of product daily online. 
You would have a great physical location that gets great foot traffic and is smartly decorated
You would have a great point of sales system that integrates seamlessly with your inventory management and accounting software... and keeps online inventory updated too!
You would have many wholesale vendors and get the best pricing 
Your brand is famous and carried in retail stores across the world. 
Your products are seen being worn by celebrities and on TV/Movies
You would have an excellent marketing & sales plan perfectly executed by a great sales person
You would have plenty of operating capital... 
You and all your employees earn a fair wage for the work you do and also have health insurance and a savings plan. 


We can all agree that an arrangement like this would dramatically increase your odds of success. Right?

So lets say each line item above is worth between 0 and 10 points. A MAX score is 130 points (if I added right) 

Give yourself a 0 to 10 score on where you stand on each item. Be honest. This will help you rate your chances but also show you where you can improve. It is never too late to improve in any area... and everyone can improve no matter how well they are doing/.


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## sweetts (Apr 4, 2010)

bomber315 said:


> at first i didnt realize it was kacie asking the question....
> 
> alright i cant help it... kacie for the love of everything holy get off the computer and print some stuff... it seems your hobby is thinking about printing shirts instead of doing it... you have been planning all of this stuff longer than i have owned equipment... if you would would just get the ball rolling you would be making some money by now! heck you have been a member since march and post on average between 2 and three times a day, everyday... honestly whats the hold up go to ryonet and buy thier starter 4x2 press and get down to business... print a bunch of stuff and come across some real questions... i know your only 21 and you probably dont have alot of business experience but theres only one way to learn ( didnt know **** about business 10 months ago)... git r dun bud!... im not trying to rag on you or piss you off just hoping maybe a little kick in the @$$ will make something happen... and ps dont take someone elses money... and here is a reason different than what everyone else is saying.... if you take her money you, dont really have to succeed, but if its YOUR money or YOUR loan YOU HAVE TO MAKE MONEY! and YOU WILL!
> 
> phew there i said it hahaha


I agree I would not take any money, nothing is free.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

I would recommend printing this whole thread out, and giving it to your sister to read. that should put a lot in perspective for her.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

This is what I am asking for:

Flash Dryer
Heat Press
AccuRIP with the Epson 1400 printer
Corel Draw 5
6c 2s press with micro reg.
25x36 exposure unit
12 wood screens
Tablet PC... still looking for a good one.

$4-$5500k


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## Optiq (Oct 13, 2009)

hmmmm... It really depends on weather or not you two understand what you're getting into. From my experience, the person with the money is always the one who doesn't have the slightest clue as to what should be done and how it should be done, but because they put the money up they feel like they should be the boss and make a lot of decisions that run everything into the dirt but because they lack understanding of the industry it all falls on your head and is your fault because they're incapable of seeing otherwise.

Another thing, what role do you play? Are you an artist or are you just going to run the equipment? I'm an artist and one thing I've seen over the years is you will have people who will appear to want to invest into you, but really they're just trying to put their thumb on you and make money off of you. If they're willing to invest in the company on the level of a personal loan and your only obligation is to pay them back, that's one thing, even though that still has its' risks, but if they want to "partner" up with you and just put forth a little money while you bust your butt night and day making things happen, they're trying to indirectly run your business, and don't be surprised if they don't try to open their own shop and hire you on as a glorified employee by giving you a title like "Lead Art Director" or something else important sounding.

If your goal is to start and run your own business then you need to be the one who does that and establish something with this person in writing stating that they are loaning you the money and draw out whatever guide lines you both agree to. People like to dangle money in your face like they can make your dreams come true, but you need to find ways to reverse that on them and remind them that you can make their money multiply, when they make an artist sound like they're a dime a dozen, make investors seem to be a dime a dozen because your talent is just that great, don't turn into a puppy dog for the money.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

> Flash Dryer
> Heat Press
> AccuRIP with the Epson 1400 printer
> Corel Draw 5
> ...


No conveyor dryer? A flash cure is meant to do just that... flash for a few seconds to skin over the underbase... not to cure the whole shirt. 

Heat press, but no plotter? Have you got one already?

No washout booth/pressure washer? 

Tablet PC? Spend half as much and get a good solid desktop.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

jiarby said:


> No conveyor dryer? A flash cure is meant to do just that... flash for a few seconds to skin over the underbase... not to cure the whole shirt.
> 
> Heat press, but no plotter? Have you got one already?
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, a conveyor dryer will come if I get an actual shop, not a 6'x15' extension off the back of my house lol. 

What's a plotter?

And can u believe there was a pressure washer here when I moved in!


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

your looking at about $4,200 before you get to the computer/tablet. luckily if you went through ryonet they help you out on the supplies but you still need the dough for shirts after all equipment is paid for, and any of the thousands of problems that can appear out of nowhere.

the little buddy conveyor dryer is only 5ft by i think 28 inches, no need for extensions. and the 2k you invest in that will pay itself off by increasing production by like 40%, also the money you save on not warping your pallets will be nice. Conveyor dryers are really a must if you want to do business, and not just arts and crafts.

and i think he's talking about a plotter because of the heat press you listed, its what out-puts vinyl designs. i think you wanted the heat press to do transfers?


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

doskalata said:


> your looking at about $4,200 before you get to the computer/tablet. luckily if you went through ryonet they help you out on the supplies but you still need the dough for shirts after all equipment is paid for, and any of the thousands of problems that can appear out of nowhere.
> 
> the little buddy conveyor dryer is only 5ft by i think 28 inches, no need for extensions. and the 2k you invest in that will pay itself off by increasing production by like 40%, also the money you save on not warping your pallets will be nice. Conveyor dryers are really a must if you want to do business, and not just arts and crafts.
> 
> and i think he's talking about a plotter because of the heat press you listed, its what out-puts vinyl designs. i think you wanted the heat press to do transfers?


Heat press is for foil. 

And I can't use a conveyor dryer here. I don't have the right plug in.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

i cant at my house either, but i plan on having an electrician come through. 

i was in the same boat, i fought the idea for the longest time, even took the time to look into aluminum plattens for the silver 6/2 so i wouldn't have to worry about warping plattens curing ink under a flash dryer.

this is the thread.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing-equipment/t137834.html

eventually you got to ask yourself what your trying to do, and where you want to be 6-12 months into production. thats when i made the decision that i wanted to do high quality PRODUCTION, not just be able to CREATE cool t-shirts.

investing the time and money now, pays of ten folds later on... im told.

id suggest looking throught that thread i posted, a guy named rob happened to live near me and he offered to show me some of the different workhorse presses he had on hand so i could see the difference between a silver press and a real press. Rob shed a lot of light on what i was planning and it got me pointed in a much better direction. He also bought me a couple of beers, thanks again Rob!


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

doskalata said:


> i cant at my house either, but i plan on having an electrician come through.
> 
> i was in the same boat, i fought the idea for the longest time, even took the time to look into aluminum plattens for the silver 6/2 so i wouldn't have to worry about warping plattens curing ink under a flash dryer.
> 
> ...


Amen!!!!!!


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

Hell, I'm just gonna ask for a Cintiq 21UX.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> Hell, I'm just gonna ask for a Cintiq 21UX.



yah, $2,000 dollar tablet, good start to selling t shirts.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

doskalata said:


> yah, $2,000 dollar tablet, good start to selling t shirts.


I know, right? I'm sooo smart.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

yep, plotter was to cut team #'s and names on jerseys and/or short run thermal film jobs. Plus you can also start doing cut vinyl car decals, coro signs, store front vinyl. Plotters are versatile money makers.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Kacie, try to look at things as a pessimist first. How do you feel about the lady? I mean everything bad you can imagine but based on what you see in her? 

At the same time, since you should be more familiar with the equipment needed, source for the ALL items you need. Second hand equipment like press and exposure unit could save you some cash for other things. I would suggest a 6c 4 station press. Get an actual total of the operating or working capital you need(including rentals, electricity, supplies, etc). Maybe your sister can help. This is just to help your sister, and even the lady, make sure that the company is amply capitalized.

Since this is your sister's deal and you are an employee, what is your compensation? Do you think it is worth it? Will you be signing an employment contract? If you will, be careful about the fine prints, especially those that say you can't work for another printer or can't design and/or print your own shirts for a certain amount of time after you resign or stop working for the company. 



kc6789 said:


> This lady is like... a millionaire. I'm not joking. She has recently become very good friends with my sister. She is an older women with no kids and tons of money. She basically wants to get my sister started with her own clothing line. So guess what? The lady is putting up the money, my sister, who doesn't even know how to use a computer or have any artistic ability is leaving the designing and all the work up to me.
> 
> * But, along with her stuff, I get to work on my brand as well.*





kc6789 said:


> It's an investment and of course we r making a legal contract


Have the lady put that in the contract (that you can work on your own brand and continue to do so anytime you chose to leave). 

It is possible that the lady is looking for some kind company and have come to trust your sister. Still, look at things as a pessimist. This is not to destroy the company even before it gets off the ground but just to make sure you are not overjoyed and turning a blind eye on possible problems. 



kc6789 said:


> How about a contract saying that we have 30 months to make back the $5k, and only after that can she reclaim the things she bought?


30 months to recoup the investment is realistic if you can market the shirts. But you must have a good location with good products. However, don't put that in the because you or your sister unless you are drawing some kind of investment management contract with the corresponding compensation and incentive. Hell, even big time fund managers won't guarantee a time-frame unless they put a portion of the investment in some fixed income securities and they are paid humongous salaries. The contract that should be drawn up is simply to make things clear for the lady and your sister. To protect the lady's investment and to protect you from being tied down. You should set some kind of objective and a realistic time frame to recover your investment but don't put that in the contract.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

This is driving me crazy now. I wish I hadn't asked. I'm such a worrywart.


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## fajedi (Oct 6, 2010)

doskalata said:


> i cant at my house either, but i plan on having an electrician come through.
> 
> i was in the same boat, i fought the idea for the longest time, even took the time to look into aluminum plattens for the silver 6/2 so i wouldn't have to worry about warping plattens curing ink under a flash dryer.
> 
> ...


So did you end up buying the silver press or you went with another press? Thx


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

So she.will have the equipment shipped to you? The one who is paying won't even get a chance to see what's she's buying? Moving all the equipment to ca.will be a pain


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

pukingdeserthobo said:


> So she.will have the equipment shipped to you? The one who is paying won't even get a chance to see what's she's buying? Moving all the equipment to ca.will be a pain


Well, it might just be shipped to a shop down there and I'd move down. This won't happen till early this summer tho.


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## doskalata (May 16, 2010)

fajedi said:


> So did you end up buying the silver press or you went with another press? Thx


No, i decided to work towards a proper press;


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

kc6789 said:


> This is driving me crazy now. I wish I hadn't asked. I'm such a worrywart.


Just relax Kacie. You do need to be aware of the possible bad things that can happen so you can avoid them or find solutions/alternatives form them. But you really have nothing to lose except signing an employment contracts that ties you down for a certain period of time and things does not go according to plan; and/or signing a contract with provisions such as this:




> 12. *Restriction on Post Employment Compensation*. For a period of _________________ ( ____ ) years after the end of employment, the Employee shall not control, consult to or be employed by any business similar to that conducted by the company, either by soliciting any of its accounts or by operating within Employer's general trading area.


Source: http://www.ilrg.com/forms/employmt.html

So, just relax and think about things not as a problem but as finding a way to take advantage of the opportunity and at the same time protecting yourself from unfavorable terms and conditions.


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## gotshirtz001 (Sep 23, 2008)

doskalata said:


> id suggest looking throught that thread i posted, a guy named rob happened to live near me and he offered to show me some of the different workhorse presses he had on hand so i could see the difference between a silver press and a real press. Rob shed a lot of light on what i was planning and it got me pointed in a much better direction. He also bought me a couple of beers, thanks again Rob!


Thanks for the shout out, Justin.

I can come off like jerk on the forums, but meet me face to face and I'll bend over backwards to help out where I can.

I'll extend the same offer to you as I did to Justin...
Come on down to the shop to see a difference between hobby and professional equipment.
... and the first beer is on me.
My $.02 is to type "starting a clothing line" in the search field and see how many threads come up. This will give you a good idea how many people try to launch something like this and ultimately fail. Starting a clothing line and being able to make it fly may be the most difficult thing to do in this industry... Especially in Southern CA!!

Not to mention the printing quality has to be spot on and plastisol just won't cut it.
It's gotta be the *right shirt *with the *right design* printed with the *right ink* at the *right time*.
A bit of talent and good intentions are not going to cut it... especially with someone else's money.
It takes a drive that most people do not possess, thick enough skin to weather all the critics and nay-sayers *alot of LUCK *and (most importantly) a "can-do" attitude that will overcome any obstacle that arises...
an attitude that is not represented in your reply "it's not the right plug."

Last thing, realize that we all are trying to HELP YOU OUT.

You would be far better off staying local, getting a personal loan and good used equipment and dedicate your efforts to learning the craft, being the go-to girl in town for screen printing while finishing up school and leaking your designs and brand to the world through a separate website.

... Moving to LA to start a clothing line and store with $6000 (of cat-lady's money) will only lead to an abrupt failure and may extinguish that fire which makes you so likable.

I'll extend the same offer I made to Justin...
Come on down to the shop and see the difference between hobby equipment and professional equipment... not all presses are equal and the term "micro registration" can mean a lot of things.
An hour looking at what comprises good equipment will steer you away from 90% of the stuff on the market.... and the first beer is on me!


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> This is driving me crazy now. I wish I hadn't asked. I'm such a worrywart.



You need not worry, you just need to add a couple of zero's to the amount you are going to finally ask for....like $60,000.00


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

jdoug5170 said:


> You need not worry, you just need to add a couple of zero's to the amount you are going to finally ask for....like $60,000.00


Sounds about right.

What are you and your sister going to do for money while the business gets going? She's opening a storefront, so there'll be a lease involved. Can you keep up all of the payments, utilities, and insurance for the duration of a lease if things don't take off immediately?
Where are you going to do the printing? At the store? In wherever you move to in LA? Are you gonna live with your sister . . . 24-7?
Has she actually SOLD any of her designs, or is she (and the cat-lady) convinced that her designs are the next hottest thing?
She (and you) would be far better off trying to market your designs through established retail stores, and online, rather than opening a store hoping people will come in and scarf up shirts. Statistically speaking, the plan you have now, if I understand it correctly, is almost sure to fail. If you pull this off, you'll rewrite decades of sound business practice.
Regardless of how much the cat-lady LOVES your sister, how long is she going to be friends if and when in (someone else mentioned) 6 weeks you and your sister are broke, hungry, and owing?
Not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but t-shirts lines are a dime a dozen, most never get off the ground, and you've got to look at what your doing with a jaundiced eye so, if things go in the crapper, you'll have at least considered the possibility.


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## mrvixx (Jan 13, 2009)

Newport Beach doesn't need another T-Shirt shop! A Tablet PC wont help you, get a Mac. You can get a 110v little buddy or scamp conveyor dryer along with your flash. You probably will not need Accurip. Let your sister deal with setting up the business have her pay you to print for her!!!!


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

jdoug5170 said:


> I would not take the money, but that is me. I'm sure that you and your sister are going to do what you think best, and live with whatever comes from it.
> 
> I'm going to go another way here though. I've been following your posts, or designs, and all. You have not prepared a business plan that I have heard about, I've not heard how you plan to sell these shirts...and so far it seems that everything is about your brand. You are thinking that everyone is going to want to advertise for you by wearing your brand/logo.
> 
> ...



Smart advice Doug.


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

Kacie....found the solution for you.

Screen Print Complete Business

May as well start out right, with some of the best and save some big bucks for your millionaire well you are at it.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ok I'm not gonna talk about this anymore. It's up to my sister. Its stressing me out.


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## Red Leaf (Feb 2, 2011)

My advice would be to try and figure out a way to go it alone. You have total control and earn all the money that way. You don't owe someone who will be waiting for a check every month while you do all the work. Be very careful


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## Red Leaf (Feb 2, 2011)

I got an entire screen printing shop on Craigslist for $4500 I mean the works. probably 25K worth of equipment and supplies. Do some research online and don't try and buy everything brand new


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> Ok I'm not gonna talk about this anymore. It's up to my sister. I'm over it.


That sounds like a good idea...after all, it won't even happen for several months. By then, you can have yourself established and making money on your own right here in the NW where I can tell you right now, it is much easier than Southern Cali!

What is happening with the order you have? The cupcake deal? That is what you should be concentrating on.

Doug


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

jdoug5170 said:


> That sounds like a good idea...after all, it won't even happen for several months. By then, you can have yourself established and making money on your own right here in the NW where I can tell you right now, it is much easier than Southern Cali!
> 
> What is happening with the order you have? The cupcake deal? That is what you should be concentrating on.
> 
> Doug


I haven't heard from her in a week. I don't think she is going to order shirts from me. She probably went to Frog Prints or the other shop in town. It's ok tho. She'll get better services. More expensive probably tho.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

kc6789 said:


> Ok I'm not gonna talk about this anymore. It's up to my sister. Its stressing me out.


Sounds like a nice move for the mean time. I would sure like to see what designs you have for valentine.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

BroJames said:


> Sounds like a nice move for the mean time. I would sure like to see what designs you have for valentine.


Um... none?


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## pukingdeserthobo (Jun 3, 2008)

kc6789 said:


> Um... none?


Any design at all? Been wanting to see one


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Yes, rest your mind on this for now and go back to your other threads.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

No I mean no designs for Valentines. I don't do holidays... except Halloween.


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## K Chez (Jun 11, 2008)

If your doing anything more than simple designs, 6K isn't going to go far unless you find a great deal on used equip. that isn't a P.O.S. It depends on the nature of what your planning on producing-I've had a lot of people ask me why don't I have my own equipment-it's simple-too much money! Most of the work I do is elaborate auto racing t's, I'd need at least an 8 color auto, & a dryer to keep up with it. Screens ink, exposure unit, air compressor, a build to keep it all in, utilities, insurance and I'm looking at a startup of around 250K. It's easier to subcontract and focus on the design end than trying to maintain the beast.


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> Ok I'm not gonna talk about this anymore. It's up to my sister. Its stressing me out.


There is your answer!  

You have found it all on your own…
well…with the help of all these posts. 
Give your sister a list of the things the shop will need to produce shirts and anything else she wants to sell. Let her make the deal with the “Lady Millionaire” keep your name off the paper work. 
If you are truly the one just making her dream designs a reality on garments than you work for her. 
All you need to do is come up with an agreement of what she; your sister will pay you to produce shirts for her on her equipment! In that agreement can be you are able to use the equipment to make shirts or designs for yourself, however you must reimburse her for the cost of the shirts, ink, etc… 
You are your sisters employee not her partner.  
CW


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

K Chez said:


> If your doing anything more than simple designs, 6K isn't going to go far unless you find a great deal on used equip. that isn't a P.O.S. It depends on the nature of what your planning on producing-I've had a lot of people ask me why don't I have my own equipment-it's simple-too much money! Most of the work I do is elaborate auto racing t's, I'd need at least an 8 color auto, & a dryer to keep up with it. Screens ink, exposure unit, air compressor, a build to keep it all in, utilities, insurance and I'm looking at a startup of around 250K. It's easier to subcontract and focus on the design end than trying to maintain the beast.


I said that Im not doing any valentines designs. I wasn't talking about my sister. 

AND AGAIN, the money is not limited to $6,000.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> I haven't heard from her in a week. I don't think she is going to order shirts from me. She probably went to Frog Prints or the other shop in town. It's ok tho. She'll get better services. More expensive probably tho.


OMG u guys! She emailed back!


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

kc6789 said:


> OMG u guys! She emailed back!



And.........


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Somehow, I feel like I'm watching a reality soap opera but with more suspense.


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## kc6789 (Mar 28, 2010)

She wants quotes and mock-ups with different colored shirts. I'm gonna do it tomorrow even tho she'll probably take another week to get back to me lol.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Gud luck kacie. And relax.

This should be the best advice



Corel Whisperer said:


> There is your answer!
> 
> You have found it all on your own…
> 
> ...


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

kc6789 said:


> She wants quotes and mock-ups with different colored shirts. I'm gonna do it tomorrow even tho she'll probably take another week to get back to me lol.


I've gotta ask, and don't take this wrong, but – if you don't have any equipment and materials, how are you going to quote the job (unless you're having someone else print for you)? From what I've gathered from this thread, you don't print. Am I right? You're kind of going into this whole project backwards without any real idea of what it's going to cost you, unless you're just quoting on doing the art. Maybe I've missed something along the way.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I vaguely recall kacie engaging in actual printing discussion in other threads. I also recall a design with biting lips which I think kacie printed.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

BroJames said:


> I vaguely recall kacie engaging in actual printing discussion in other threads. I also recall a design with biting lips which I think kacie printed.


I really don't want to come off as a jerk, and in all honesty she sounds like a nice person, but from some of the discussion on this thread it's hard to tell just how much experience she has, and from her own statement, her sister has absolutely none. It seems they're brimming with youthful enthusiasm over the prospect of getting the crazy cat lady to set them up with everything they think they need, but there's been no indication that, at least in her sister's case, that the designs they intend to sell in a storefront yet to be leased have even hit a piece of paper, and may consist of nothing more than painting this cheery picture of clothing-line success for some lady who may or may not have more money than sense. It's also on-again, off-again situation with her sister, no one seeming to be in any real contact with one-another, not knowing from day-to-day whether or not it's even still on.
If Kacie has some printing experience, and has some kind of a press, and, without pressure from her sister to become enmeshed in a business proposition that sounds shaky at best, she'd be better off simply doing art and printing her sister's stuff with what she has. If it fails, then all she's out is her time, and it'll be part of a long educational process. If it's successful, she can come back on this board and rub our noses in it. As it is, it's all drama, with mercurial passions swinging wildly from one extreme to another.


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## Corel Whisperer (Sep 1, 2010)

tpitman said:


> it is, it's all drama, with mercurial passions swinging wildly from one extreme to another.


 There's an idea for a shirt...A Drama Queen on a swing, with a yes on one side and no on the other!


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