# jet pro soft crack, fade help



## charles7 (Jun 11, 2007)

cracking, fading, milford, jetpro soft paper, peeling .. help !!!!!!!!!!

need i say more 
I bought heat press 
i ordered jetpro transfer soft paper from milford 
I was very excited 
i made a couple of t-shirts (25seconds on heat press)
I sell t-shirt
still excited 
Customers bring back shirts 
t-shirts fade (major)and crack after one wash 
ohh they are not excited 
help 
has anyone encountered this ...
did i do something wrong


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Please don't listen to the pigment story, there is no truth to it, I and many others use dye ink without any issues at all. I think most people on here read it once and think it's set in stone. There is nothing worse then passing off bad information to someone else. DYE INKS WORK JUST FINE. 

As for your issues, I also use JPSS and have not had this issue at all. 

I'm curious to see of someone else has?


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## norwalktee (Nov 10, 2005)

Troubleshoot this by increasing the pressure and temp with several transfers and wash the samples. It could be an issue with your ink if you still have a problem. Dye inks work fine with some papers. I've read some posts that JPSS is one of them. I used a 1280 (with dye ink) for years and had no major problems with the papers I primarily used, but had a black that would bleed on other papers. Pigment inks are the way to go for the professional who wants greater durability for their prints. If I'm wrong, then my own comparison tests are wrong. I only going by what I've seen and not what others say.


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## charles7 (Jun 11, 2007)

R1Lover said:


> Please don't listen to the pigment story, there is no truth to it, I and many others use dye ink without any issues at all. I think most people on here read it once and think it's set in stone. There is nothing worse then passing off bad information to someone else. DYE INKS WORK JUST FINE.
> 
> As for your issues, I also use JPSS and have not had this issue at all.
> 
> I'm curious to see of someone else has?



so you think it might be my ink ...
because everyone here recommends epson c88
that is what i bought 
i'll try another printer


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Someone removed there post so it makes it looks like I was talking directly to your first post.. sorry about that. 

Someone mentioned it was probably due to dye ink, I stated the above. There have been many people on this site stating that dye ink is not any good for transfers when in fact I and others have had great success with it. While there may be some combinations that don't work, I do know I use dye ink with JPSS and it works fine.

I would guess to say the above poster is correct in saying that it's a combination of heat temp and pressing times that may be causing your issue. 

I'm using 375-380 for 30 seconds IIRC. I would guess that the cracking might be too much heat for too long of time maybe???


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## charles7 (Jun 11, 2007)

norwalktee said:


> Troubleshoot this by increasing the pressure and temp with several transfers and wash the samples. .


Thanks for the reply

my heat is at 350
should i still increase it ...
i'll try increasing the pressure


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> Please don't listen to the pigment story, there is no truth to it, I and many others use dye ink without any issues at all. I think most people on here read it once and think it's set in stone. There is nothing worse then passing off bad information to someone else. DYE INKS WORK JUST FINE.
> 
> As for your issues, I also use JPSS and have not had this issue at all.
> 
> I'm curious to see of someone else has?


You are correct to a degree. if you are only going to use JET Pro Sofstretch as a transfer paper then you may get away with it. But no one does. meaning what if the person wants to press opaque transfers.. then my friend.. nope stay with pigment ink.. By the way I am an ex demo rep fro epson. I know about inks.. JPSS seems to work wth dye inks.. I would not say it is better.And unless you have used both then it is only your use on a dye inks that you can talk about. mre I would not risk it.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

badalou said:


> You are correct to a degree. if you are only going to use JET Pro Sofstretch as a transfer paper then you may get away with it. But no one does. meaning what if the person wants to press opaque transfers.. then my friend.. nope stay with pigment ink.. By the way I am an ex demo rep fro epson. I know about inks.. JPSS seems to work wth dye inks.. I would not say it is better.And unless you have used both then it is only your use on a dye inks that you can talk about. mre I would not risk it.


With all due respect, I also use the same dye inks with Alpha for Darks and experience almost perfect performance. I have shirts I have washed over 10 times so far testing with very very little fading. 

All I can do is speak from my experience and so far I have no complaints on the dye ink I'm using on both JPSS and Alpha for Darks. I will also add that I did get some paper from best blanks with my press and that paper is junk and ran all over the place. Now would that paper have been so bad with pigment inks? That would be a very good question and test to perform.

I was just stating my experience and also my experience with this site when I first came here, I researched what inks to use and the overwhelming opinion was that dye inks don't work well with transfers. I found this completely false with my testing and transfers that I have done. 

My point in trying to post this was to help others like myself who come here and make sure they have the proper information rather then wrong info.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

charles7 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> my heat is at 350
> should i still increase it ...
> i'll try increasing the pressure


 
Up your temp as well. JPSS should be set for 375*. Pre-press your shirt to remove the moisture prior to pressing the paper. After you press, "hot" peel and quickly, give the shirt a gentle stretch and re-press it with teflon or parchment paper over the design.

No, I have not had this issue. But, I follow the steps in this post to press my transfers. I'm sending you the link. Read the post and see what you are doing different.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39007.html#post229735


INKS AND PAPERS: 

Before JPSS and Claria dye ink, the standard was, and still very much is, use pigment ink. 

"Regular" Dye will wash out when used with Most Papers on the market, except JPSS generally (test your ink first.) 

Pigment ink gives you the most flexibility to choose any paper you want to try. 


I have used both pigment and dye inks. Started with Dye ink and it faded on both Ironall Dark and Ironall Light. Switched to Pigment and it did not fade, at all. Then used pigment with JPSS, worked great, and experimented with dye, worked great. But only with JPSS for me. 

So when JPSS paper came along, we found out that JPSS can retain colorfastness in the wash with dye ink. 

I've been washing a shirt in warm water - with bleach - and it still does not fade. Here are the pics:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t47868.html#post282700



Another thing to note: Not long after JPSS came out, Epson came out with their Claira Dye ink. We have found out that quite a few different heat transfer papers can retain colorfastness when used with Claria dye ink. Claria dye ink is touted by Epson as a "water resistant dye". That seems to makes it act different from regular dye inks. Here are some pics of Claria with other papers:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t46050.html#post272807
There are links in this thread to more pics for you, too. 


Depending on what ink and what paper you choose, you may be able to go away from the standard "pigment ink for use with heat trasnfer paper" advice. This advice is still very true, but a few new players in the game have added some new rules.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

R1Lover said:


> With all due respect, I also use the same dye inks with Alpha for Darks and experience almost perfect performance. I have shirts I have washed over 10 times so far testing with very very little fading.


Some dyes do hang in there for a while. But I'm personally looking for way longer than 10 weeks, with a fade that is imperceivable. 

A length of 10 weeks might only get a customer to 2 months time before this fading starts. If they love your shirt, they may wash and wear it alot, getting to those 10 washes in that time. I don't think that's a long enough period for them to start to see a failure in the shirt. 

Of course, alot depends on your price point, and what perceived quality the item was sold under. That might be a respectable amount of time between you and the customer. 

But I've gotten way longer than that, with no fade from my Ironall Dark with pigment ink.

Is there anyway for you to go to an office store with a piece of Alpha Gold and ask someone to print a test for you on your paper? Tell them you may want to buy a pigment printer but only if it works better. You may find someone who will print it. 

If not, ask around to your friends who may have an Epson. Alot of graphics and photo nutz have them, so you might have a local buddy with one. Ask them to print it for you.

Then you can do a real comparison for yourself. Just to see how it goes. Those c120's were cheap on Epson.com in the clearance section. If you can add a few months to the product, it might be worth it.

If there is no difference, at least you know. 

PS: I hope my prior post help explains why you see "pigment ink" recommended in prior posts. JPSS is relatively new, and so is Claria dye ink, compared to some of the threads that date back as far as 2 yrs + ago. I'm one of the folks trying to help get the updated info out there, but the info has to be given clearly and carefully, or some newbie may end up with the wrong combination of paper and ink, and end up with product failure and disappointed customers, whereas pigment is always a safe bet.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

This is all great information and I'm glad both of you have spoken up on the real truth to this information. 

I have used Claria dye ink although now I'm using a CIS from Alpha supply, I have used this on ironall for darks but although there was more fading with this in addition to the paper being un-smooth and I ended up sending it back. I have tried a few different papers and all of them seem to be fine so far with die ink CIS.

Right now I have three papers I'm using with dye ink with no trouble

Alpha for Darks
JPSS
Un Branded


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> With all due respect, I also use the same dye inks with Alpha for Darks and experience almost perfect performance. I have shirts I have washed over 10 times so far testing with very very little fading.
> 
> All I can do is speak from my experience and so far I have no complaints on the dye ink I'm using on both JPSS and Alpha for Darks. I will also add that I did get some paper from best blanks with my press and that paper is junk and ran all over the place. Now would that paper have been so bad with pigment inks? That would be a very good question and test to perform.
> 
> ...


Well then there you are.. Your giivng proper information and not the wrong information. I guess my years of working with transfer papers and different inks and doing a lot of testing means very little. what you found false was your using the paper and the inks using your printer and your method of washing is that dye ink worked. Outstanding. There is an industry standard (Pigment inks) And the reason for this is that there has been testing done by people in a better position then you or I to do proper testing. I have done my own and over the last 3 years have built my reputation on my knowledge of transfer paers, printing and even washing.. You need to understand there are many varible involved. Yes you will have good results in some cases with dye inks. But I stand behind my statement that you are limiting your choices of papers to use. Why do that. If your reasoning is it is because you have a dye base printer that is not reason enough. Why limit. Buy a printer proven to work with all transfers. If you are going t buy a printer to use. If you own a dye base printer then I wish you the best with the few papers you will be able to use with good results.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> Some dyes do hang in there for a while. But I'm personally looking for way longer than 10 weeks, with a fade that is imperceivable.
> 
> A length of 10 weeks might only get a customer to 2 months time before this fading starts. If they love your shirt, they may wash and wear it alot, getting to those 10 washes in that time. I don't think that's a long enough period for them to start to see a failure in the shirt.
> 
> ...


and on that we agree...


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

I have the Epson 1400, from what I understand it can be used with pigment ink as well, I will also give this a try the next time I buy ink. I will say though, I'm not limited to anything that I know of. I have a couple papers that work great for lights and one that works great for darks. 
The reason I'm willing to give pigment ink a try is because of your post, while reading this forum everyone says pigment, pigment... while this may be the norm before other papers hit the market as you explained, it's not always the case as we have all explained. 

10 washes so far is about all I could do, I will continue to wash them once or twice a week with normal loads and see the result. 

For me, what I'm doing now seems to be working just fine. Your statement on the quality level of my work or customers is far fetched as well..... I will never put out an inferior product and everything I produce has gone though testing to ensure this. If you think 10 washes is not enough to see how a product is going to perform then I disagree. 

I didn't mean to start a mess here with you, I just wanted to post up accurate information for the members and let them choose for themselves.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> I have the Epson 1400, from what I understand it can be used with pigment ink as well, I will also give this a try the next time I buy ink. I will say though, I'm not limited to anything that I know of. I have a couple papers that work great for lights and one that works great for darks.
> The reason I'm willing to give pigment ink a try is because of your post, while reading this forum everyone says pigment, pigment... while this may be the norm before other papers hit the market as you explained, it's not always the case as we have all explained.
> 
> 10 washes so far is about all I could do, I will continue to wash them once or twice a week with normal loads and see the result.
> ...


Look a debate can be healthy. You learn from it. By the way if you going to quote a person use the quote buttlon so we know who you are talking to. Was it me or kelly? You not starting a mess but you are new here and very welcomed but some of us have been here a very long time. I earned my MHM by helping others on the forum. When people ask me how I know so much the simple answer is I did it before you. I screwed it up and now I am trying to prevent you from making the same mistakes. Your post has been delt with before. it comes along when a new person gets on board and mostly tries to defind the fact that they have a dye based printer. What some of us are trying to do is make you see that it is not that we don't accept your findings using dye inks. it is just that we don't want to limit the type of printing one does. Your getting great results, great. You have a great product and it all works for you. But to tell us we are wrong and what we say is just not true.. then that is another issue. Our goal here is all meet at the sameplace.. I would never say your method is wrong and people should not listen because it is not the truth. I would say the method you use may be limiting yourself. That is it..


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

First off there is no need to quote when the post is above mine. 
Second I have stated my opinion and I will leave it at that. 

If you would like to think that because I just joined your forum that I'm less informed or less experienced then that is your opinion. You know the nice thing about forums is when new people arrive and sign up, you have no clue who they are. You can sit on your high horse and think you are the all mighty of this site, apparel design and printing as long as you would like to. I'm only here to learn and help others as NONE of us know it all. 

There is no use continuing this debate as well, I have stated my opinion and that's all I care to do. Let people read into it as they see fit. 

Have a good evening.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> First off there is no need to quote when the post is above mine.
> Second I have stated my opinion and I will leave it at that.
> 
> If you would like to think that because I just joined your forum that I'm less informed or less experienced then that is your opinion. You know the nice thing about forums is when new people arrive and sign up, you have no clue who they are. You can sit on your high horse and think you are the all mighty of this site, apparel design and printing as long as you would like to. I'm only here to learn and help others as NONE of us know it all.
> ...


Wow.. I guess you win.. high horse.. no.. just been there done that.. Ok you don't want to use quotes then ok.. I would be the last to say that what you say is not helpful... what we are doing is sharing info. You do not have go on the attack. Our comments were just that we felt you were saying what a lot of us (Majority) say is that dye based printers are not the best over all. Maybe you missed that point. So debate over.. keep sharing your info.. best Lou


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

No hard feelings.... let's just move forward.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Wow, hehe, glad I was busy this morning... missed all this action. 

R1, I hope you didn't think I was inferring that you put out an inferior quality product. Never would I suggest that. I was the one who mentioned 10 washes, so those comments must be coming my way. What I meant to say is, we all present our products with price points and a customer has certain expectations that comes with that. 

Heat transfers can be a tricky type of printing method to sell because they don't have the durability of screen printing that people are so used to. 

Folks that work with heat transfer papers are often asked by those who normally use plastisols or screen print "How do you explain to the customer the type of longevity they can expect?" because folks who are used to plastisols, SP, DTG notice there is a fade, crack or peel issue that can come with this process. Through those conversations, came my short one line comment on 10 washes, that probably didn't come across well in print.

My thought on that was if a customer is used to getting a good 6 months to 2 years out of a shirt, fading showing up at 10 washes might not get them close to the normal wear they may expect. From there what I meant to say was, if your customer is aware of the fact fading may show up around that time, the 10 washes, then the fading won't be an issue for you. You shouldn't end up with an unsatisified customer, because the customer knows what to expect. That's what I meant by my comment - about you and the customer being on the same page - longevitywise. Then I was saying that because of that, my comment about getting more washes before a fade doesn't even come into play. That's all. Not that fading at 10 washes is inferior. Does that make more sense?

As far as limiting myself to paper, if JPSS light works perfect for me, I won't be interested in using a different paper for lights, and if I use vinyl for darks, and never an opaque paper, I would happily only own a dye printer, my Canon, and never invest in a pigment printer to do the same thing my Canon does. If they discontinue JPSS, then I would worry about it, and cross that bridge. 

I'm surprised you are going to change to a pigment ink system without testing a pigment printed piece of Alpha Gold first. Changing inks in a printer running a different ink is a pain in the bottom. If you can't find someone local to print you a sheet of Alpha Gold with pigment, send me a PM and a sheet of AG, I'll print it for you and mail is back. You can send it in a .41 envelope. You don't need anything big, just something with pigment for a wash test. Do this before you go through the pain of flushing your printers ink. By the way, there is a member on the forum named Ivancuriel. He has the 1400 and he runs Claria Compatable ink in his printer and he loves it. He also uses various paper with great success. I sent him a few sheets of Ironall Dark to test for me with the Claria Compatable and the tests are going great. 

You didn't say what ink you got from Alpha, is it a bulk dye ink system? Let me know if you want a piece of Alpha Gold printed in pigment for you. Best regards, and peace, no offense intended regarding quality. -Kelly


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the info Kelly, I was actually going to purchase another 1400 soon and thought I would try the pigment with the start up of it. I am happy with the results I'm getting now, although I do have an open mind as well and wanted to do some of my own testing. 

I will take you up on this offer though and send you some alpha for darks to print something in pigment as well as I will send you some of my alpha for darks printed with dye if you would like as well. If you could pm me your address I will get this out right away. 

Thank you again for all the information.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> Thanks for all the info Kelly, I was actually going to purchase another 1400 soon and thought I would try the pigment with the start up of it. I am happy with the results I'm getting now, although I do have an open mind as well and wanted to do some of my own testing.
> 
> I will take you up on this offer though and send you some alpha for darks to print something in pigment as well as I will send you some of my alpha for darks printed with dye if you would like as well. If you could pm me your address I will get this out right away.
> 
> Thank you again for all the information.


I have a great idea... i did a water test awhile back and it clearly showed that dye inks in a glass of water make grape cool aid. But I did this on paper. it might be a good idea for you are one of us to make 2 designs with JPSS and print one an HP that has dye and the other with pigment inks. I know there has been a lot of talk about JPSS holding up with Dye inks but if they each sit in a glass of water for 30 minutes and none of them turn the water into grape jusice then that is a great test. I would do this when I was an epson demo rep. All the pictures we did on glossy photo paper never turned color. The HP rep hated me because customers would want to see his do the same.. it new held up. let me know if you can do it. I am up to my eyeballs rigght now. But can do it later on. Lou


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

If I took time off and froliced around a trade show, I would be really behind too. I guess some of work and others play. .... LOL ..... JB


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

For me, the dye ink is colorfast AFTER it is pressed With the polymer To the fabric, not before, because of JPSS' unique polymer qualities.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> For me, the dye ink is colorfast AFTER it is pressed With the polymer To the fabric, not before, because of JPSS' unique polymer qualities.


yes I know.. But don't you think if there was going to be color seperation it would happen on the paper as well. Like the other water test I did.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Let me answer this way:

Dye ink with Ironall does fade. Ironall's polymer does not hold the dye ink.

Dye ink with JPSS does not fade. JPSS's polymer coating does hold the dye ink.

If ink comes off a paper Before it is pressed is not a concern I have - BUT if ink comes off a shirt AFTER it is pressed IS a concern I have. In the past, I have washed finished shirts using JPSS with dye ink, and there is no fading. Tossed bleach in, there is no fading. This is where it is at for me. The finished product.

It's like cooking, the raw ingredients may not taste so good prior to cooking, but what comes out of the oven is what you are really waiting for.  

It takes the Heat of the Press to make the magic happen for dye ink and JPSS.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> I sent him a few sheets of Ironall Dark to test for me with the Claria Compatable and the tests are going great.


 
Hey Kelly!!!! 

I haven't been on here regularly in a while.....been sooooo busy!!!(setting up shop)...anyway....

Is the Ironall Dark working again??....the "bad batch" is gone???

From what company did you purchase the IAFD??

Oh...one more question.... 
With JPSS and pigment inks.... what should I tell my customers about fading...???....
(AGFD states 40-50 washes)

(hope I did the "quote" thingy the correct way...well, I will know as soon as i press "submit reply"!!!LOL)


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

oh...I did it right!!!!yeah!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

R1Lover said:


> .......I have tried a few different papers and all of them seem to be fine so far with die ink CIS.
> 
> Right now I have three papers I'm using with dye ink with no trouble
> 
> ...


What is "Un Branded transfer paper" ???


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

ashamutt said:


> Hey Kelly!!!!
> 
> I haven't been on here regularly in a while.....been sooooo busy!!!(setting up shop)...anyway....


Hiya Mrs. B, that's great news, I hope it's going great. Do you have the cutter running? I'm working on getting a blade holder, lol, still!! Soon we'll be cutting that vinyl! I've been reading there are so many great new vinyls out, can't wait to try the girlie ones out! Anyway, good to see you again. 



> Is the Ironall Dark working again??....the "bad batch" is gone???


I've been wondering the same thing. It's been a little quiet on this subject. I do read the posts less lately, with it being summer, but haven't seen much on this. Not sure if that's because it's better now, or if no ones really using it. Maybe we should make a thread to ask if any users are doing well with it now.



> From what company did you purchase the IAFD??


I've always gotten mine from New Milford Photo. I know what I've read about them from some folks who have issues, but Mrs. B, I never had a problem. I've gotten the best pricing from them by waiting for their sales. I am signed up to the newletter, and that helps bc sometimes sales are a one day sale.



> Oh...one more question....
> With JPSS and pigment inks.... what should I tell my customers about fading...???....
> (AGFD states 40-50 washes)


Good question. I am wondering how long my shirts will go on as well. I started with JPSS back in the very beginning of Dec '07, so 7 months so far and no problems. It's like the newest paper to arrive, the other papers have been around so long, it's probably easier for them to establish estimates like those. Maybe as users, we should try to start establishing those parameters to try to find out what JPSS' actual practical life span is. 

I'm not sure I really ever believe the wash life put out by mfgs. Sometimes, a paper will say for this many washes, and I've had papers not last as long, Ironall being one of them. Luckily from that test I found the one shirt that was A-OK with Ironall, but I'm sure other folks who had Ironall fade on the first wash weren't too happy, that's kind of what I mean. But I am thinking the wash life of JPSS is going to be great when we finally find out how long it lasts. I haven't heard anyone mention they found the end of it yet. Folks seem to not mention this, maybe because none of us have had it long enough to "wash it out" yet, lol!!!! 




> (hope I did the "quote" thingy the correct way...well, I will know as soon as i press "submit reply"!!!LOL)


 
Yea!!! lol!!

What do you think, I think it's time to ask about the current state of Ironall Dark. Shall you or I? 

Great to hear from you, I miss seeing your helpful self around here, have a super day. 
-Kelly


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## reginammp62 (Jul 4, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Up your temp as well. JPSS should be set for 375*. Pre-press your shirt to remove the moisture prior to pressing the paper. After you press, "hot" peel and quickly, give the shirt a gentle stretch and re-press it with teflon or parchment paper over the design.
> 
> No, I have not had this issue. But, I follow the steps in this post to press my transfers. I'm sending you the link. Read the post and see what you are doing different.
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39007.html#post229735
> ...


Great post. This helps newbies like me get a much better understanding of the products and expected outputs and the links are fabulous. Great post all around.
-regina ;-)


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

reginammp62 said:


> Great post. This helps newbies like me get a much better understanding of the products and expected outputs and the links are fabulous. Great post all around.
> -regina ;-)


Thanks, Regina, it's good to hear that sometimes all the typing is worth it. lol. Thank you again for your kind words.


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

what's the temp at. 25 seconds seems a little short also. I'm at around 33 seconds at 352 degrees with no problems and I'm printing around 200 a week.


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

charles7 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> my heat is at 350
> should i still increase it ...
> i'll try increasing the pressure


try increasing the pressure and go up to 30 seconds.
Also, are you preheating the shirts to get the moisture out?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I press at 375* for 30 full seconds with heavy pressure. Just below the heaviest pressure. Pressure is so hard to describe! lol.... Good call on pressing for a longer time, Greg.


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> I press at 375* for 30 full seconds with heavy pressure. Just below the heaviest pressure. Pressure is so hard to describe! lol.... Good call on pressing for a longer time, Greg.


I started out at 375 but had to come down because some of the items we are pressing were getting discolored. Since going down in heat we're fine and it hasn't compromised the quality of the print.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Good call, glad you were able to work it out, Greg.


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## Artsy_Marissa (Nov 17, 2007)

I recently discovered i was pressing JPSS incorrectly. Had horrible cracking. I was not pressing it long enough. It was looking a bit shiny bit never using it before i thought that was fine... 

Then i had an order reread the instructions and pressed it and it was beautiful.... The transfer was like part of the fabric, no hand at all and it has washed up great according to my customer!!!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Thank you so much for the post. People report cracking issues with JPSS sometimes, and I'm going to refer them to your post now for a possible solution. Thanks for pegging one of the reason folks can have that trouble. One more mystery solved.  

PS: Just wondered what dwell times you were using that worked and didn't.
Thanks again.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Artsy_Marissa said:


> I recently discovered i was pressing JPSS incorrectly. Had horrible cracking. I was not pressing it long enough. It was looking a bit shiny bit never using it before i thought that was fine...
> 
> Then i had an order reread the instructions and pressed it and it was beautiful.... The transfer was like part of the fabric, no hand at all and it has washed up great according to my customer!!!


 
Great news!!!

What finally worked ???
what was your ....
Temp?
Time?
Pressure?


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Hiya Mrs. B, that's great news, I hope it's going great. Do you have the cutter running? I'm working on getting a blade holder, lol, still!! Soon we'll be cutting that vinyl! I've been reading there are so many great new vinyls out, can't wait to try the girlie ones out! Anyway, good to see you again.


I have my cutter set up and most of my Sample vinyl came in...(Beacon Graphics really gave a GREAT sample package...the box was like, 3' x 2.5'!!! 3 partial rolls of different colored vinyl and lots of large sheets of all kinds of stuff!! plus a large folder with more transfer stuff inside! BEACON GRAPHICS ROCKS!!!!)
So ....hopefully I will be cutting SOON!! LOL!!
We can cut together!!!





Girlzndollz said:


> What do you think, I think it's time to ask about the current state of Ironall Dark. Shall you or I?


I think that would be a nice thread!!!
YOU start it though , since you have like, 2500 more posts than me!! LOL



Girlzndollz said:


> Great to hear from you, I miss seeing your helpful self around here, have a super day.
> -Kelly


thanks Kelly!
you are sweet!



K.... this is my first time trying multiple "quotes"....let's see if I get it right!!! LOL


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

yeah...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did it!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

ashamutt said:


> yeah...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I did it!


You're too cute! 

Okay, I'll ask about the ID. I hope we get to cut together. There's a few of us ladies starting up at the same time. 

Mrs. B., will you give me the site or number to Beacon, you sound soooo happy, I want to give a call for a sample pack. It sounds awesome!! Thanks so much. 

There's a great thread I have to find where folks were listing all the places to get samples. So far, I've gotten one from Plan B (thank you again, Roger! ), but the list was a pretty long list. Have you seen that one?


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> You're too cute!
> 
> Okay, I'll ask about the ID. I hope we get to cut together. There's a few of us ladies starting up at the same time.
> 
> ...


Was it this thread...?
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-crossover-diary-heat-press-newbie/t13454.html

BEACON GRAPHICS WAS WONDERFUL!!!
I think I spoke with Pauline???(SP?)
1-800-762-9205
Tell her that you have a cutter and she should set you up!!(she even sent me some Roland H.T. Media...it supposedly works with inkjet ink as well as two other types...?)


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks, Mrs. B., I'll give the a ring. I think the vinyl thread was this one, it didn't get too far, but I followed the interesting link in there: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t51864.html#post306652


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## andrewcup172 (Apr 2, 2008)

After reading many stories on pigment ink and jetpro soft. I have managed to try both of these together and the initial look after pressing is awsome look but washabilty i find it a massive dissapointment it cracks after one wash not a product to use if your considering it for a business i think maybe for a one use for stag night parties. If anyone can back me up with a reason for the cracking of jetpro soft i am all ears but so far i am not impressed with jetpro soft.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Hi Andrew. as pigment was the standard before claris inks, I think the problem might be your process or equipment. I have done more than a dozen shirts with JPSS and no problems(I'm still testing. Want to find something as good as what the ironall for darks used to be from what I've read about the old ironall)I haven't had cause to check the actual temp of my press for two reasons. One, it has a mechanical thermometer built in and I get the expected results when I use it. You might want to check out the temp on your heat press. I press at temps of at least 380 going to 390( the instructions I got said 390) for the full 30 seconds. As soon as I open the press, I start stretching the shirt in all directions before trying to peal. This does two things. It starts(almost completes it) the peal process and I don't burn my fingers as bad.Thats one thing I got from watching hollywood Lou's videos. I just wish I could get (and be sure of it ) the ironall for darks like he used in his other(one of his other) video. Thanks Lou for the videos.By the way, below is the first shirt done with JPSS (by me) and it has been washed 7 times already.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Didn't get the pic for some reason Here I'll try again


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

andrewcup172 said:


> After reading many stories on pigment ink and jetpro soft. I have managed to try both of these together and the initial look after pressing is awsome look but washabilty i find it a massive disappointment it cracks after one wash not a product to use if your considering it for a business i think maybe for a one use for stag night parties. If anyone can back me up with a reason for the cracking of jetpro soft i am all ears but so far i am not impressed with jetpro soft.


Did you immediately stretch the design after pressing. I mean while it was hot on the pad. That should solve any cracking problem.







Hollywood Lou? And yes I did live in Hollywood and yes back in the 60's i studied to be an actor and yes back in the 60's I failed at becoming an actor and now I do this.. hey I am having fun.. but the pay is lousy but the rewards are great...


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Yes, thats what I do, I start stretching it as I pick it up IMEADIATLY after opening the press and continue to do so till I have stretched it all around. Not like I'm trying to pull it apart or anything. Just a gentle stretch almost as if I were just trying to break the paper loose.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

DTFuqua said:


> Yes, thats what I do, I start stretching it as I pick it up IMEADIATLY after opening the press and continue to do so till I have stretched it all around. Not like I'm trying to pull it apart or anything. Just a gentle stretch almost as if I were just trying to break the paper loose.


I don't know why your having a problem with this paper as I have never had a cracking problem. I pre press for 5 seconds. I heat to 375. Press for 30 seconds. I use med to heavy pressure. I peel hot (Ouch!) and stretch immediatly. That is it..


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## andrewcup172 (Apr 2, 2008)

Hi and thankyou to all that posted about my jet-pro soft stretch concern. In my instructions i have to press at 190 degrees or 350-375 fahrenheit then press for 15-18 seconds does anyone suggest i press for longer ive noticed badalou you press for 30 seconds. Many thanks and take care all


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## andrewcup172 (Apr 2, 2008)

Hi all again ive tried the 30 second press but used my new claria ink printer god am i getting the results im looking for. I would like to send a big thankyou to badalou and dtfuqua for your advice and take back what i said about jetpro soft slap me in the face hard with a wet towel when you see me. Once again take care your advice is priceless.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Yes I press for 30 seconds too. I did forget about the pre-press which I always do for like a slow 6 count so I don't have to reset my timer between the pre press and the actual transfer press.
A very big Your Welcome. I'm just glad I could repay some of the help I've gotten here.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Andrew, glad it worked out for you as JPSS is a wonderful paper. Good to hear you are getting the results the rest of us get. When there is a problem, it's usually something that can be changed about the process and that fixes things up. Another happy JPSS user added to the list... and it's a big list!


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

Hi guys, can we buy our heat transfer papers directly from the manufacturers (instead of from the middlemen)? This would be lot cheaper. thanks.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Well the middlemen still need to feed their families too, but if you shop around you can find the ones that don't take advantage of you.


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

can you share with me the list of your suppliers? thanks


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## hechtgirl (Jul 15, 2008)

*Has anyone tried this paper called "I**nkTra™ Stretch Inkjet Transfer Paper"? I got it from stahls.com and it's great. There is no feel to it. It washed great. It's the best transfer paper I have used to date. If anyone else has used it, please let me know what's your take on it.*


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

hechtgirl said:


> *Has anyone tried this paper called "I**nkTra™ Stretch Inkjet Transfer Paper"? I got it from stahls.com and it's great. There is no feel to it. It washed great. It's the best transfer paper I have used to date. If anyone else has used it, please let me know what's your take on it.*


 
InkTra is said to be Ironall under yet... another name. 



onipse6 said:


> can you share with me the list of your suppliers? thanks


Suppliers for what products?


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

Hi, R1Lover, can you share with me your suppliers of heat transfer papers? Thanks


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

What paper are you looking for and how much are you wanting to buy? As the quantity makes a difference.


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

I want the best quality of heat transfer paper for both light and dark fabrics. I buy them by 10,000 pcs. each. thanks.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

onipse6 said:


> I want the best quality of heat transfer paper for both light and dark fabrics. I buy them by 10,000 pcs. each. thanks.


 Check out my test.. more to come..
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t57941.html#post344138


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

Hey Guys,
I bought inkjet iron all light transfer papers from newmilford early this year, however, the image does not transfer well. I have already followed strictly the procedures accompanying the papers but the best that I was able to transfer are like faded images or just outlines on the t-shirts using a heat press(375 degrees, 25-30 seconds, medium to hard pressure), cold and hot peel. Is there something wrong with the paper or somewhere, whatever?

I also tried using a flat iron to no avail.

Please anybody help me, I bought a lot of the iron all papers, 10,000 sheets of them. I will appreciate any kind of good advise from anybody regarding my problem. Thanks


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

onipse6 said:


> Hey Guys,
> I bought inkjet iron all light transfer papers from newmilford early this year, however, the image does not transfer well. I have already followed strictly the procedures accompanying the papers but the best that I was able to transfer are like faded images or just outlines on the t-shirts using a heat press(375 degrees, 25-30 seconds, medium to hard pressure), cold and hot peel. Is there something wrong with the paper or somewhere, whatever?
> 
> I also tried using a flat iron to no avail.
> ...


 
Wow, that is terrible. I've used Ironall but didn't get results like these. Ironall prints beautifully, and presses beautifully. The problem with Ironall comes into play when you put it in the washer. It can fade, and depending on the shirt, that fade can be from none to terrible and it even can fade in just areas of a transfer.

Okay, first let's try to make sure you received Ironall. Ironall is blue/green on the back. Is your paper blue/green?

You're results sound like what I got when I tried the self weed paper from China. I used pigment ink with the paper, and it says it is best used with dye sub ink. 

Do you have pics of your shirts to show, and please check the back of your paper for the blue'ish color. 

Other than that: what printer, ink and shirt fabric (cotton? cotton/poly?) did you press onto?


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## transfer fun (Aug 17, 2006)

When did you receive the paper? What are your storage techniques/conditions?


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

Thanks Kelly, Initially, the manufacturer, Hyatt said it is environmental, either during shipping or storage, humidities must have affected the chemistries of the papers. Nevertheless, Hyatt should have warned new milford who inturn should have properly warned also their clients of the unique properties of the iron all papers. New milford stated that they have received the same complaints from their other 
clients. Apparently and I presume, the iron all paper has a very short expiry period compared to the other types of papers that I store in the same storage room; I have red and blue grid of Arkwright and jetpro softstretch as well and I have not experienced the same bad situation(either in shipping and storage) on these papers.
Would it be right if I demand full refund of my $3,700.00 from new milford? Thanks.


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

Hi, I received the iron all papers last February 2008. They are wrapped in transparent plastic sheets in 100 and 50 sheets then packed 250 sheets per brown cartoon box. I stored them together with my red and blue grid, and jetpro softstretch transfer papers also bought from new milford; these transfer papers were stored August of last year up to the present. I distribute them to about 100 branches of books and stationeries stores and I have not received any single complaint so far. Then this problem with iron all papers cropped up. I have been changing the iron all papers I have sold to my clients with the red grid and soft stretch absorbing losses.
Would it be proper to demand full refund of my $3,700.00 from new milford because of its failure to disclose needed information (regarding shipping and storage) on the products they sold me?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I would suggest you contact them directly. I feel any time you have an issue with service or a product, it is fair and wise to give the supplier a chance to speak for themselves and have a chance to make the situation right.

I am sorry to hear of the troubles you are having with this paper and hope you and the supplier can work out a fair agreement to your liking. Good luck to you.


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## onipse6 (Jun 8, 2007)

Thanks for your advise. I have already contacted New milford and sent yesterday thru DHL the manufacturer Hyatt Innovative Solutions, Inc samples of the iron all paper for analysis. Initially, Hyatt stated that "shipping and storage must have affected the chemistries of the paper". Will keep you posted on their further response. Thanks again.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

You're welcome and good luck, Carlos. I hope it works out ~fingers crossed~ for a good resolution for you.


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## belancergolf7 (Jan 13, 2009)

Hello,
I just made my first shirt with JPSS and I just gave it a wash (5 days after making it) and the colors bled. 
Anyone have any idea why this may be??

I'm thinking it may have to do with me not waiting long enough for the transfer to dry, but I waited a good 20-30 min. Does it need longer than that?

I'm using an hp printer with dye inks. I pressed for the recommended settings. I also peeled immediately. (within 5-10 seconds after pressing) 

I also washed in properly. Cold water, inside out, no bleach. 

SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!
Thanks in advance.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

belancergolf7 said:


> Hello,
> I just made my first shirt with JPSS and I just gave it a wash (5 days after making it) and the colors bled.
> Anyone have any idea why this may be??
> 
> ...


Hmm. Others have used HP dye inks successfully with JPSS. It *could* be the ink, that is a very real possibility, but, I think something else is worth a try, too, before looking to buy a new printer.

JPSS has a minor (and rare) bleed issues in the past with other inks. What usually solves it, almost every time, as folks do report back quite often, is *reducing* the amount of ink that is printed onto the paper during the printing phase.

For example, if you have a "best" or "best photo" option, and that is what you used, then choose a lower option, like "text" or "text and image". 

Reducing the excess ink during printing has solved the issue in the past. 

If you are already using the lower ink saturation options (text only), then I think it could be your ink.

There is another possibility, too. It could be your shirt. Shirts can affect the final product *as much* as your paper and ink.

If you are using a "text" mode to print, then try a different shirt to see if you get better results with another brand or fabric mix of shirt.

Remember JPSS is for 50/50 cotton poly to 100 cotton. Not sure what you used, but I doubt it was a poly shirt.

If you use text mode to print, and you tried a second shirt and still got bleed... I might suspect your particular ink isn't working with the JPSS.

There's also always a possibility of a *bad batch* of paper at any time with *any* paper and all mfgs. produce in batches, and sometimes a stinker batch slips out. 

I hope one of the free, easy solutions works for you. Good luck.

PS: I have pressed JPSS straight off the printer to the shirt, no bleeding with either pigment or dye ink. I've also washed on warm and with bleach, no bleeding.


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## belancergolf7 (Jan 13, 2009)

Hey Kelly,

Thanks for your advice as always. I really hope it is not my ink. I printed on normal quality settings. Should I try an even lower quality? Normal is the 2nd best setting. 

Lowest setting is automatic
2nd lowest is fast draft
3rd lowest is fast normal
When I received the paper, it was packaged in a box and the paper was in a bag, however, the bag was not sealed. Do you think this could have effected it?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

belancergolf7 said:


> Hey Kelly,
> 
> Thanks for your advice as always. I really hope it is not my ink. I printed on normal quality settings. Should I try an even lower quality? Normal is the 2nd best setting.
> 
> ...


I would go lower. The ink sits on top of the paper, it isn't absorbed, so more ink doesn't do anything to enhance the finished image. Go as low as you can while avoiding any banding or other low print quality issues. 

The problem is, you probably won't be able to use plain white paper to check the print level that is best. You'll likely have to use the JPSS paper ($$) for print tests. I found the JPSS takes the ink differently than plain white paper when I was looking for my proper setting, and the plain white paper printed totally different from the JPSS. 

In order to not waste too much of the expensive heat transfer papers on print tests, I printed the same image in a 3x5 size. I cut a piece of JPSS in half, to get the most print area out of one sheet, but in a big enough size for a decent comparison.

I'd suggest - to check if reducing the ink level will fix this - that you print the same image in a 3x5 size, cut a piece of JPSS in half.

Print your first 3x5 in one of the lower settings. When it's done printing, rotate the paper 180* (not flipping it of course, just basically turning it upside down) so when you choose the next print level.. your 3x5 will print on the blank side.

Once that is printed, do the same thing with the other ink settings that you want to compare. Press them and wash them to see if one of the other ink levels eliminated the issue.

If it did not, I would change the shirt out. Same test, different shirt. 

It's almost a curious thing because I know I've seen folks using HP ink with JPSS.



> When I received the paper, it was packaged in a box and the paper was in a bag, however, the bag was not sealed. Do you think this could have effected it?


The paper should be in a sealed bag. There is some question as to the affect humidity can have on transfer paper. In some cases of odd bleeding with JPSS, humidity is a factor that is sometimes discussed, but no one is able to say for sure.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2010)

Hi,

I am a newbie and was wondering about what kind of printer you use to print your image on the transfer. I am usisng a canon MP610 with the TShirt Transfer setting but it is coming out blurry.

Thanks,

Percy


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a newbie and was wondering about what kind of printer you use to print your image on the transfer. I am usisng a canon MP610 with the TShirt Transfer setting but it is coming out blurry.
> 
> ...



When ink prints onto transfer paper, it's not exactly clear like a picture, because the paper has grooves and dips, however slight, in the coating on the paper, unlike photo paper which is smooth as glass, generally. 

But, if you see feathering/bleeding... you can try to reduce the amount of ink that is going on to the paper and that may reduce the blurriness.

Reduce the setting from high photo quality (more ink) to maybe text (less ink).

If you get fading with your shirt in the wash, maybe try "pigment ink" or "jetpro softstretch paper".

You can search either of those terms for more info. Good luck.


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## bullheadedmay (Jul 15, 2011)

Can someone tell me why mine is cracking. I tried the method above but when paper lifts, it fades slightly around the edges and it cracks.......even in the polymer window. I am using jpss on 1oo% cotton. 

Also I know the instructions say wait 24 hours to wash but does anyone else wash after a different time frame like sooner or later? And which wash setting is best? I've tried cold but it just causes more cracking. I'm wasting so many shirts and so much ink.


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## jeric112013 (Sep 11, 2013)

Up for this thread. Newbie here in tshirt forum.

I'm starting my tshirt business this week and my worry is about JetPro SS. My friend told me that JetPro SS is cracking on light shirt, instead of JPSS, he use 3g opaque on light color shirt because according to him, it is rubberize and high quality transfer paper.

Im doubting to use JetPro SS because it is cracking according to my friend. How truth is this?


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