# What DTG to buy



## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

I know everyone bashes everyone on here. I am trying very hard to make a decision on what DTG machine to buy for a start-up biz. I have read all the stories, but, yet, there is nothing that tells me which machine is the best to get. I will be doing white prints and dark color prints. 

Can someone please just through all the bull and give me a straight answer. No sales pitches, just the facts.

I want to make sure that I can move the machine with ease as well.

Thanks.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Best is relative.
This forum has a wealth of information especially from owners of the machines. Best thing to do is go through each manufacturer section and browse the threads.


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## mediapress (May 9, 2010)

I've been using different DTG / From CHINA brand to American, I have previous anajet, tjet but best for the best and im loving it is the DTG VIPER.. .
so i assume go to viper 
Cheers


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

they all suck, get a screen print set up. you will be much happier. Better yet, get a vinyl cutter and you can do 90% of what you would otherwise screen print and you will save yourself a lot of learning curve. 

if you must buy i have been told brother is pretty good. $55K and you are all set. 



> I want to make sure that I can move the machine with ease as well.


better get a trailer and mount it in there. these things are really heavy.


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

Hehehe don't think you are going to be too successful making a GT-782 portable. The unit is incredibly large when thinking about moving it around. Now a GT-541 I could see making the rounds and several people have already succeeded at doing that.


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## mediapress (May 9, 2010)

lol @ Binki, good on you mate. 
cheers


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## Mabuzi (Jul 3, 2007)

Please check the posters creds really carefully as they will push their wares.
I would for portability, get the anajet. Please remember the machines are very sensitive and could suddenly stop working. Dust and low humidity are killers.

Dont be fooled if you think it is easy, cos it aint. All DTG have massive learning curves, they all have horror stories and fairy tales.


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## Mabuzi (Jul 3, 2007)

Oh yes, dont use cheap tees and dont watch out for silicon washed shirts. I would buy shirts form various printers with the same design and wash test them.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

Here's an ongoing thread here on TSF of real users talking about there DTG machines.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t41520.html

No one can really answer your question and tell you which machine is the best, all DTG printers have issues of one kind or another, the process has a learning curve that requires a lot of diligent effort to be successful, and what works for one company may not work for another.

Best advice anyone here can give you is to educate yourself, read the forums here on the different brands, read the real users statements about what works for them and what doesn't, ask questions lots of folks have been down the same road and can save you a lot of grief, take what sales people tell you with a grain of salt they are after all salesmen looking to make a sale and believe their product is the best....

But really read read read....educate yourself it's the best advice.

Hope this helps.


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## Stitch-Up (May 26, 2007)

Excellent post Jon


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## GetReel (Sep 9, 2009)

Jon is most definitely correct. Research and education are the key. I have owned both the Anajet and the Veloci-Jet. We are not rookies at dtg printing when I purchased the AJ but could not, after 4 months, make the AJ work successfully. An expensive lesson and why I want others to not make the same mistake. We have been having great results from the VJ and have been continuoulsy printing with it for about 8 months. It has increased our bottom line by 25% to 30%. Combination of software package, engineering, tech support and cost make the VJ a machine I would purchase again.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

binki said:


> they all suck,


BS..........if you know how to use them properly, and understand their strengths and weaknesses (just like EVERY other garment decorating process) they can be highly profitable tools, but that is just what they are.....a tool in your tool box. Would you use a wrench to drive a nail? Sure it might work, but it isn't the best tool. Once you wrap your head around this you can begin to fully appreciate what these machines can do. 

Are they for everyone? Nope. Some people just are not capable of navigating the learning curve required. 

Don't let sales people sell you, don't let naysayers discourage you, do the research and decide for yourself.

I can show anyone in one day how to operate my machine with great success. Will they learn everything....of course not, but they can learn enough to be successful at the operation end of the business. Now the sales end could take a wee bit longer. 

Zilla

Ps - anyone that wants to come to my place in Florida for some hands on experience, come on down.. Just pay for materials, beer, and pizza!


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> Just pay for materials, beer, and pizza!


Zilla can drink him sum beer - be careful!


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

binki said:


> they all suck



Don't be a hater.. 

funny you say they "all" suck and then recommend a Brother... hmmmm 

I feel that if you are just starting out buy small then see how you progress. No need to go out buy some big machine because..when the orders don't come in and you have payments the payments are still gonna be there.

Try to buy used/refurbished K2 or TJ2 ~ bag it have no payments and watch the money roll in and then start savings towards a Mod-1...

learn the insides and the outsides of the machine.. so that when you do get something bigger you aren't on the forums freaking out for help. The K2 and TJ2 are basic set-ups but ya gotta get your hands dirty and really learn the functions.. Don't be afraid of it because it smells fear  we have broken so many little irreplaceable pieces and gorilla glue has been my savior. 

some suggest to not do darks first and master white shirts first ..which I wish we could have done but our first order was 125 front and back black shirts so we had to learn real fast.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

You buying in Hotlanta next month Don?


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

Printzilla said:


> PS - anyone that wants to come to my place in Florida for some hands on experience, come on down.. Just pay for materials, beer, and pizza!


A nice trip to Florida.. may have to do that !!

 


off topic.. I heard thru the grapevine you have the Hotronix Hover Press??


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> You buying in Hotlanta next month Don?


I'm low-carbing it - look like we are drinking MGD 64!


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your advice. I am learning towards the anajet. Now, as for dark colors, what would you consider dark colors besides (black, dark blue, purple). I want to make sure that I don't mess up which I am sure I will before I get it right.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

rcmsellers said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice. I am learning towards the anajet. Now, as for dark colors, what would you consider dark colors besides (black, dark blue, purple). I want to make sure that I don't mess up which I am sure I will before I get it right.


Once you deviate from a white shirt depending on the artwork everything is dark, I know this sounds wrong, basically anything that require a pretreatment to print the artwork is either a light or dark garment that you are printing a white underbase on, so the colors you can print without an underbase or pretreatment are white.....and sometimes you want to pretreat whites to get the colors to pop!

I hope that makes sense, an example for you, you can print lets say a single color graphic on almost any light colored shirt with black ink and get a great looking print, take the same shirts and add red, yellow, and blue to the mix and depending on the shirt color the colors are lost/muted, and you now require pretreatment, a underbase, and your CMYK to get the correct colors on your light colored shirt.

The artwork dictates what is light (no pretreatment or underbase) and what is dark (pretreatment and underbase)
not really the color of the shirt once you move away from white shirts.

This is JMHO, others may tell you differently, and a salesman will tell you I'm totally wrong.

PS you went from a Viper to an Anajet in the span of a few hours, I'd suggest you keep gathering information for a few days before you decide....again just MHO.

Hope this helps.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

rcmsellers said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice. I am learning towards the anajet. Now, as for dark colors, what would you consider dark colors besides (black, dark blue, purple). I want to make sure that I don't mess up which I am sure I will before I get it right.


After reading this forum, you still come up with Anajet? Putting aside the plethora of other issues you would be facing, you are starting off behind your competition because of much higher ink prices. With all of the info and user feedback available I would think you could make a more informed decision.


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

I never said I was going to go with a viper. I have always been looking at anajet and wanted to see what else was out there.

As for ink prices, there was a post, where I could get the ink cheaper from dtginks.com.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I agree with Marc.

But .. everyone has their own business model and needs. I suppose the Anajet must fit that model.


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

This is what I am looking for. Why would you not go with the anajet. What would you go with and why.


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## vlcnmstr (Jan 5, 2007)

ok, I see los of good advice-- but as to research a few moe days-- take a few months if you can. you can see where different companies are going, what issues each faces and corrects (or doesn't) and you can maybe get to a couple trade shows in between to see them in action.

that said, as one still gathering information myself (possible january purchase) I live in an apartment, a couple flights up. so, limited space of a small bedroom. right by the beach, so humidity is rarely too low. 

for small space, less than everyday use and best ink prices (after best operations) what machines should I be looking at? the DTG brand has already been eliminated from my search (long story, no need to re air it here) and the L.A. area.

hints? suggestions?


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

rcmsellers said:


> As for ink prices, there was a post, where I could get the ink cheaper from dtginks.com.
> 
> Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.


http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dtg-brand/t122078-2.html

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t127117.html

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t126346.html


Ink isn't the only factor you have to worry about..pretreat and parts. Return on investment.. making customers happy..printing good results..having your printer working non-stop and being virtually maintenance free.. 

We aren't trying to give you sales pitches but we are giving you good advice from people that are using these system on daily basis and have seen the benefits w/ a simple ink delivery change on a printer that is about $6K (refurbished)


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

rcmsellers said:


> I never said I was going to go with a viper. I have always been looking at anajet and wanted to see what else was out there.
> 
> As for ink prices, there was a post, where I could get the ink cheaper from dtginks.com.
> 
> Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.


Sorry my mistake......you will probably locked into high ink costs with any printer until your warranty expires, most DTG manufactures require you to use their ink or it voids the warranty.

Hope this helps.


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> I agree with Marc.
> 
> But .. everyone has their own business model and needs. I suppose the Anajet must fit that model.


 
See that is what I mean, I say I am going to go with Anajet and you say it must fit my model. So what is the problem that you see with the Anajet and what type of machine do you have.


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## jbrian (Aug 6, 2010)

does anyone have any advice or comment on the Neoflex?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

for the final price of a dtg printer you can get a cutter/plotter and produce:

Full color printed T's
Full color printed Banners
Full color printed vehicle wraps and graphics
Full color printed decals
Cut vinyl for banners, shirts, windows, decals
much more beyond that. 

not to bash dtg but if i had to do it over again i would have spent my money on a cutter/printer. 

i did not recommend the brother, i said


> if you must buy i have been told brother is pretty good


, not an endorsement, just hearsay. let's just say the brother has the least amount of complaints around here. 

i am not a hater of dtg, i just have not gotten my investment back out of it even with printing thousands of shirts. the ink is expensive, the maintenance is tedious, the repair bills are outrageous and the time spent with the thing does not = a profit as of yet. it may come but so far it has not. that is all.

on the other hand, my simple 24 inch cutter is bringing me several thousand a month in profits without any problems. our embroidery is bringing us a profit as well. both of these machines run daily without complaint and the amount of maintenance is far, far, far, less than a dtg. 

the dtg, while an exciting concept, is still problematic. it may change over time but so far it has let me down every time i really needed it. 

it is only fair to tell a prospective purchaser all of the things involved, not just that it is rosey every day, it isn't. this thing needs constant attention. my plotter and EMB can sit for days on end without use and start right up and work. the dtg needs to start up, go through a cleaning cycle (it does this on its own), check the encoder strip. the i do a nozzle check, then a test print, then we are ready unless there is a problem. when there is a problem it is a pain to resolve. 

so, my answer is, get a screen print or cutter/plotter and if you must go dtg, take a look at the newest brother, i have heard they are pretty good.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> See that is what I mean, I say I am going to go with Anajet and you say it must fit my model. So what is the problem that you see with the Anajet and what type of machine do you have.


Here is the thing. You have not really told anyone much about your business. A Kornit might be the best fit for your business or maybe no dtg printer at all... no one knows because you have not really put much information about your business, your target market, price per garment and several other items. That is why you see people mention "based on your business model".

How about a slightly different question. Why do you think the printer you are interested in the best fit for your business? What makes it better than the other printers you have looked at? If you can sell your peers on why it is a good move, then you will know that you have done your research and have selected the best option for your business based on the exisiting knowledge.

Just alternative things to consider.

Mark


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> This is what I am looking for. Why would you not go with the anajet. What would you go with and why.


Sounds like you already made your decision, are you looking for someone to talk you out of it?


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> See that is what I mean, I say I am going to go with Anajet and you say it must fit my model. So what is the problem that you see with the Anajet and what type of machine do you have.


I didn't say there was a problem with your choice.
You asked what was the best printer to buy. Best is relative to you. The only way to make that decision is to read the forum and do your own research.
You haven't given any reasons as to why you made a decision on Anajet vs DTG or Brother or Belquette or Kornit, so we have to assume that based on -your- research that model fits your business.

Also, a major factor is are you buying new or used? What is your budget? Do you care about Ink cost and supplies? Do you absolutely have to have White ink?

All of these things can only be answered by you, so doing your own research on these machines is the only way to answer your question.

I have a MOD1 by Belquette and 2 DTG Kiosk 2's. All of them with the Belquette closed ink system. See Marcs post for threads that we all made on this system.


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

First off, we are going to be doing a lot of printing for sports leagues that we belong too. We also will be doing for our local schools as well as businesses. I was actually impressed with the AJ for the black shirt printing out of the machines that I have looked at and examined.

Eventually, we would like to open up a storefront, but, of course that is going to be more down the road. 

I just wanted to know what people thought about the different machines and why they went with the one they did.

I have seen a lot of bashing on the AJ, but, why, what is the problem. I haven't made a firm decision, I haven't signed any type of contract, I am just trying to gather facts.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I think the issue is that you expect everyone to consolidate all the research on each machine into a single post / thread. That is unrealistic.

If you truly want to research each machine, then go to each machine category and do your research. Each category has the good and the bad. Happy and Unhappy users. Talk to owners, not just sales reps.

There are several threads like this for each machine that should help you make your decision.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/belquette/t127337.html


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> First off, we are going to be doing a lot of printing for sports leagues that we belong too. We also will be doing for our local schools as well as businesses. I was actually impressed with the AJ for the black shirt printing out of the machines that I have looked at and examined.
> 
> Eventually, we would like to open up a storefront, but, of course that is going to be more down the road.
> 
> ...



It's rare that we get requests for sports using DTG, mainly we do this type of work in Vinyl as most schools or sports groups have 1-2 color artwork. Also, they are used to paying screen-print prices and are not willing to pay a higher price.
With DTG, you are limited to cotton or other natural fabrics, many sports teams like to use 50/50 or other synthetic blends that are not really suitable for DTG printing.


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## rcmsellers (Aug 20, 2010)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> It's rare that we get requests for sports using DTG, mainly we do this type of work in Vinyl as most schools or sports groups have 1-2 color artwork. Also, they are used to paying screen-print prices and are not willing to pay a higher price.
> With DTG, you are limited to cotton or other natural fabrics, many sports teams like to use 50/50 or other synthetic blends that are not really suitable for DTG printing.


That is another reason why we are looking into the anajet. They can print on any type of material. We have been in talks with a lot of the organizations and a lot of them are looking at polyester (wicki wear) type stuff.


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## latinlad (Jul 9, 2010)

Hi can anyone give me some advise. I have a shop in Italy where I do embroidery. In process of buying brother pr650 and a plotter cutter. Both areas are bringing in lots of business. At the moment I am using transfer paper and inkjet printer to print pictures but don't like the quality. Am thinking about a DTG machine but at the moment I don't print loads of pics and looking through forums I see these machines need to be used alot. Otherwise they are a waste of money with all the maintenance. Saw the new DTG kiosk III today says new system for the ink so shouldn't need so much maintenance. Any other machines out there good for short print runs. Need to print of cotton or mix. Not 100% poly. Dark colour fabrics. Better quality than transfer sheets. 
Thanks


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

rcmsellers said:


> That is another reason why we are looking into the anajet. They can print on any type of material. We have been in talks with a lot of the organizations and a lot of them are looking at polyester (wicki wear) type stuff.


It's not an issue of being able to print on different material. We can also print on different materials. It is an issue of cost. The ink cost on a 12x12 full coverage print on an Anajet will be at least $4.00. A screener can do it for a quarter. See the difference. Now if these teams want a different shirt for everyone, then you have an advantage.


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## vlcnmstr (Jan 5, 2007)

"shouldn't need so much maintenance" is the give away phrase.
I am in the same boat with this.. most of those with white ink need to be run daily I am told at least to print a shirt or two and then what ever their "normal maintenance" is to keep from clogging. NONE of them can sit for a week without headaches. I go to the shows to check the newest techniques and as soon as I say "I might be away for a week" they all get a slightly scared look in their eyes and pause for a moment. Not a long moment, but enough so you know that whatever they say from that pint on is to sell a machine, not to REALLY give the low down on their version of white inks and "maintenance".
So, if you can run the machine daily (i.e. print a dark shirt or two with your logo for free advertising to give away so it's not a total loss) then fine. If you KNOW it will sit for week or so, then only consider the printing on whites. Most machines that can do darks can be set up with double CMYK for a bit faster printing, and seems like that's the best choice till you expand to constant dark printing. No use letting ink spoil when it's so expensive to start with.


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## vlcnmstr (Jan 5, 2007)

Printzilla said:


> It's not an issue of being able to print on different material. We can also print on different materials. It is an issue of cost. The ink cost on a 12x12 full coverage print on an Anajet will be at least $4.00. A screener can do it for a quarter. See the difference. Now if these teams want a different shirt for everyone, then you have an advantage.


or if they want photos or complicated graphic in low numbers that aren't cost justified for the set up for screen printing, or just beyond it's capabilities, then it's your business. -- or maybe they want something that's far "greener" that what silk screen can do right now. Sell them on that


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> That is another reason why we are looking into the anajet. They can print on any type of material. We have been in talks with a lot of the organizations and a lot of them are looking at polyester (wicki wear) type stuff.


If you do your research you will find that is nit entirely true.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> That is another reason why we are looking into the anajet. They can print on any type of material. We have been in talks with a lot of the organizations and a lot of them are looking at polyester (wicki wear) type stuff.


I am assuming you are referring to Anajet's poly inks and that you are only considering buying one printer. If this is the case, ask them to show you what you need to do to clean out all the standard inks used for printing on cotton and then to load the poly inks. Ask exactly how much inks in ML are in the ink lines, dampers and print head. Ask how much ink is needed to make sure that the lines, dampers and print head are fully primed after loading the poly inks. All dtg printers require you to waste some ink in order to get all the ink lines primed and ready to print. Ask if you need to flush the ink lines / dampers / print head with cleaning fluid before you load the poly inks. If so, what is the cost of the cleaning fluid? Can you use the same dampers for both inks or do you need to have separate dampers? If you use the same dampers, will this cause you to have to replace the dampers more frequently? Finally, have them do this in front of you and time exactly how long it takes to switch out one type of ink for another. Get all the answers in writing to make sure that you get the correct answers.

What I am getting at is unless you have two different printers, the switching between two different inks is usually not something that most people want to do based on the total cost and time associated with doing this. 

Just some things for you to consider so you know exactly what the steps are. These costs and time will have to be considered when you are pricing your print jobs.

Best wishes,

Mark


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## vlcnmstr (Jan 5, 2007)

hi,
I asked them similar questions a few days ago. but mine were more along the line of "if I don't want the hassle of white ink yet, can I run poly in the back for and cotton on the front four and switch beteen them with the driver?" makes sense. If you don't have the white in there might as well use them for poly. but they said no, the "white" lines are only for white and fire all together. They can't be used like the CMYK. Yet you CAN run double CMYK channels and double up. odd, but that's how their printer works for now. (hint hint anajet)


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

rcmsellers said:


> First off, we are going to be doing a lot of printing for sports leagues that we belong too. We also will be doing for our local schools as well as businesses. I was actually impressed with the AJ for the black shirt printing out of the machines that I have looked at and examined.
> 
> Eventually, we would like to open up a storefront, but, of course that is going to be more down the road.
> 
> ...


 
RCM, I have the Anajet(going on 3.5 years) and I love mine and I think it's been a great fit for my company. I think where this thread is going is that you need to understand a couple of things:
1) Athletic printing is generally cheap, Many placements and 90% of the time on dark garments. If you plan on doing dark polyester, The Anajet ink or ANY of the pretreatments on the market will not help you... there is not "poly" white ink.
2) DTGs will do CMYK better than screenprinting, but CMYK is not how you print team uniforms. It's how you print full color designs. 1 and 2 color designs can be printed cheaper and faster (for this type of market) by other old school methods. If you get any of the epson based printers with closed ink systems, you'll be see similar result. You're in SoCal so you'll have front door access to Anajet, you just need to understand the process and really know if it will fit what you are envisioning for yourself and your business.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

zoom_monster said:


> 1 and 2 color designs can be printed cheaper and faster (for this type of market) by other old school methods.


Yup, we use vinyl for most 1 / 2 color prints for sports teams.
Vinyl can go on just about anything.


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## GetReel (Sep 9, 2009)

rcmsellers said:


> First off, we are going to be doing a lot of printing for sports leagues that we belong too. We also will be doing for our local schools as well as businesses. I was actually impressed with the AJ for the black shirt printing out of the machines that I have looked at and examined.
> 
> Eventually, we would like to open up a storefront, but, of course that is going to be more down the road.
> 
> ...


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