# mug press help



## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

I got a mug heat press and it will not heat , how do I check to see if it is the blanket or the thermostat ? Is there a place to take this for repair in LA Ca area ?
Larry


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

What brand?


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

Le mug system plus , very old made in NY 
I tried to find MFG , but they must be out of business . I do have a working unit so test could be done with voltage meter to find bad part . I just need help with how . I would rather have someone fix this but ??????????????????
Larry


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

It is usually the heating element.
You could post a photo.
I think it will be difficult to get a new element.


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

Conde_David said:


> It is usually the heating element.
> You could post a photo.
> I think it will be difficult to get a new element.


I thought that all heating blankets were basicly the same . Still looking for someone that can check it out / repair it or tell me how to check 
Larry


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

I would check out the cost of a new press. By the time you repair press...if it is repair... you may have been able to buy a new press.


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks , but I have to find out if it is repairable . Just because the bath water is dirty you don't throw out the baby . I like to see how things work , so if someone know how to test this let me know please .Larry


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

If the unit has its own fuse or circuit breaker, make sure that it isn't blown or tripped.

Is the temperature set by dial or is it digital? If digital, temporarily remove it from the circuit as well as any relay(s) that it may be connected to. Complete the temporary circuit. The heat element should now either work or not. If it doesn't then take a meter reading for voltage at the blanket. Depending on what it reads, if anything, will determine where to go from there.

You'll do the same concept if it's a dial but it may be a little more complicated depending on how it is wired.

Is the unit 120v single phase?
Is there a transformer to lower AC or convert to DC?
Is there a RTD?
Does the unit give any indication that it has power to it?

Pics of the wiring will more than likely be needed if a schematic can not be found. You do not need the exact schematic for that particular make and model.


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Does the unit have a TRIAC?


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

rawbhaze said:


> If the unit has its own fuse or circuit breaker, make sure that it isn't blown or tripped.
> 
> Is the temperature set by dial or is it digital? If digital, temporarily remove it from the circuit as well as any relay(s) that it may be connected to. Complete the temporary circuit. The heat element should now either work or not. If it doesn't then take a meter reading for voltage at the blanket. Depending on what it reads, if anything, will determine where to go from there.
> 
> ...


 Thanks this is waht I am looking for 
What is RTD? it is Dial for temp and time delay .
yes there is a power lamp and it does show on .
I will check this out again in a day or 2 
thanks again 
Larry


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

rawbhaze said:


> Does the unit have a TRIAC?


 what is this one also


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Are you able to read an electrical schematic and/or wiring diagram?

If you are not able to answer yes to either, combined with not knowing what a RTD and TRIAC are, you may want to skip this as a DYI project. I love DIY, tinkering, up cycling, etc. but electrical is an area that has a very real possibility of causing electrocution, fire and to a lesser extent explosion. Also keep in mind that there are differences between residential, commercial and industrial electrical. Wiring the hallway's two way switch is very different than troubleshooting heating elements, timer relays, etc.

If you are confident in your ability to wire as well as your ability to acknowledge that you are in over your head, should you get to that point, then I would be happy to help.

To briefly answer your questions, a RTD is basically a temperature probe as it's core function.

Here is the wiki page for TRIAC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for your help with this , The person that sold me this stated it did work , then they shipped it to me . I'm hopping it is just a broken wire or something easy . I will test a little , but if I can find a local repair shop I would do that . I have a VOM meter and some wiring expereance. I also have tech's at work that fix telephone cards and phones . would it help if I try and take a picture of it with the covers off ?
Larry


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

sandhopper2 said:


> Thanks for your help with this , The person that sold me this stated it did work , then they shipped it to me . I'm hopping it is just a broken wire or something easy . I will test a little , but if I can find a local repair shop I would do that . I have a VOM meter and some wiring expereance. I also have tech's at work that fix telephone cards and phones . would it help if I try and take a picture of it with the covers off ?
> Larry


As far as repair shops go, among common appliances your heat press is most like a stove/oven. You are going to need to visit one of these shops whether you choose to have it repaired or DIY. You will need to purchase high temp wire and high temp ceramic nuts or connectors that are usually not found in the big box hardware stores. These components are used in ovens. I would put on my smiley face, take the press in and hope to get a friendly sales rep who can also troubleshoot. Go at a slow time of day, not at the beginning or end of day and have the cover(s) already taken off.

If that doesn't pan out then you may want to try locally owned art stores or the stores that are typically in strip malls that offer half completed pottery that the customer decorates and then the store finishes. These places may have what you need since they use kilns. Custom glass stores may be an option as well. Stained glass stores, marble factories, etc. If they have it, it's not going to be an off the shelf item (except for the art store). Expect goofy looks.

Given the age, it may be as simple as the fuse broke or was jarred out of place during shipping. That is something that should be obvious after removing the shell. Then look for any signs of burns or soot on the innards and wires. Anything dangling that shouldn't be, etc.

With the shell off and the power off, turn the switch/knob on and make sure that any safety switches or e-stop are not engaged. Set your meter to the connectivity setting and start point-to-pointing the circuit. Depending on what components you have will determine what you need to do to simulate or bypass that component to continue through the circuit. If the circuit checks out then the next step would be to turn the switch to off, plug the unit in, set your meter to volts and place the probes on the blanket's incoming power to see what reading you get.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

rawbhaze said:


> As far as repair shops go, among common appliances your heat press is most like a stove/oven. You are going to need to visit one of these shops whether you choose to have it repaired or DIY. You will need to purchase high temp wire and high temp ceramic nuts or connectors that are usually not found in the big box hardware stores. These components are used in ovens. I would put on my smiley face, take the press in and hope to get a friendly sales rep who can also troubleshoot. Go at a slow time of day, not at the beginning or end of day and have the cover(s) already taken off.
> 
> If that doesn't pan out then you may want to try locally owned art stores or the stores that are typically in strip malls that offer half completed pottery that the customer decorates and then the store finishes. These places may have what you need since they use kilns. Custom glass stores may be an option as well. Stained glass stores, marble factories, etc. If they have it, it's not going to be an off the shelf item (except for the art store). Expect goofy looks.
> 
> ...


*Sorry but this is insane.* If someone is not qualified to do this repair and lacks access to the parts and the BOM then a crap shoot at best, *at worse it is very dangerous.*

Suppose the person that is tinkering here doesn't understand the function of the green wire on the AC side and forgets to reconnect it up, what do you think can happen? Even if they get lucky and find a simple problem of a mechanical connection or a simple fuse blow what could potentially happen when the AC side green wire is accidently left off, or put back on but a poor connection, even if the repair is successful and things _appear_ to work OK? Some products require a decent amount of disassembly for access.

Just because it is _somewhat_ like a stove or oven doesn't mean repairing it without complete access to the OEM parts and a full schematic is likely to be successful even if someone is qualified. If the company that made this is not in business anymore then *proprietary* parts, BOM, and schematic is very unlikely. 

Maybe you get lucky and it's just a loose wire, maybe you can read the p/n of the Triac (if it uses one) and can find a generic replacement ... but how would you know the exact RTD device, many don't have a p/n and manufacturer on the part body due to the part not having enough area to print all the info on it, so then reliance on the BOM for the full part description would be required. So how do you know if what _type_ of RTD to replace with? Pick the wrong type and the Digital PI or PID controller used for heat regulation is no longer very "smart" if it's reference is in error. 

Also, a digital heat press uses a microcontroller that has it's own code, even if you found it originally was a generic microcontroller like a PIC device you cannot access the code inside to recreate if it is dead, or if the code is protected by setting the lock bits. If the lock bits are not set it would require proper programming tools, source code, and knowledge of how to program a new device. Can't get that programmed part from the microcontroller OEM, only a blank unprogrammed one, _if_ that part is even still available blank.

I can bet you even most applicance shops that repairs ovens and stoves or electronics service shops would not likely touch this if the PCBA is not available for a complete board swap. Maybe they get lucky and find a simple problem right away and don't need to do component level troubleshooting, but maybe not. Only the OEM for this product would have any real expertise for component level troubleshooting and even in that case a PCBA swap might still be more cost effective for them.

*Best to leave Electronics repair to professionals.* 

Sorry for my blunt comment, but I am an Electronics Design Engineer for over 30 years now and you are suggesting someone do something *potentially dangerous* just to save a few bucks. Heat transfer is just my sideline.

If he could take it to someone _qualified_ perhaps it could be simple to fix, maybe it won't. Nothing lost as long as that company or person agrees to a free estimate.


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## sandhopper2 (Apr 26, 2010)

mgparrish said:


> *Sorry but this is insane.* If someone is not qualified to do this repair and lacks access to the parts and the BOM then a crap shoot at best, *at worse it is very dangerous.*
> 
> Suppose the person that is tinkering here doesn't understand the function of the green wire on the AC side and forgets to reconnect it up, what do you think can happen? Even if they get lucky and find a simple problem of a mechanical connection or a simple fuse blow what could potentially happen when the AC side green wire is accidently left off, or put back on but a poor connection, even if the repair is successful and things _appear_ to work OK? Some products require a decent amount of disassembly for access.
> 
> ...


 I assure you I will not put myself or any one else in danger . If it is not a simple fix I will just keep it for parts to the other machine I have that is the same but works. I have a crew of Techs that do board level repare on phone stuff so I'm sure they can check the board level stuff . This is a very old machine so I really assume that it is very basic inside .


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

sandhopper2 said:


> I assure you I will not put myself or any one else in danger . If it is not a simple fix I will just keep it for parts to the other machine I have that is the same but works. I have a crew of Techs that do board level repare on phone stuff so I'm sure they can check the board level stuff . This is a very old machine so I really assume that it is very basic inside .


The heating element can quickly be checked with an ohmeter resistance reading. I cannot state what the precise reading would be but should be less very low, but not a dead short of 0 ohms. If you have an exact same one working you can compare the heater resistance on the known good working one. Or swap and see if that fixes the problem The single part that fails the most often on the mug press is the heater element. Failure mode likely would be an open circuit (infinite resistance) or a very high resistance.

Many heater designs on mug presses are designed considering that the heat element is a consumable part and user replaceable. But most heaters are not interchangeable between different manufacturers, as such, you may not get an exact replacement and suggest that you don't settle for "something close".

If they are working on phones very unlikely you are servicing devices with the AC mains directly going into the product. If not a simple telco line powered phone then most will just have simple AC to DC adapters to power the phone device. 

Unless you have a Hipot tester for AC mains leakage testing you cannot be assured the heat press is safe after re-assembly as every mug press I have had or seen has a large metal chassis. 

Most phone equipment does not plug in direct to the AC line unless it is a KSU system or such. Old wiring that is subjected to heat and high current over a period of time (like a mug press) can be deteriorated in terms of dielectric strength and represent a safety hazard. So it must be checked after re-assembly. Even if it can be repaired the press as you state is very old.

If the heating element appears to be OK and not a simple repair you would at least have a backup element.

BTW, since you mention you are servicing electronics sounds like you are not so broke to afford a new modern mug press. If it is not something quick and simple and you spend bench time and your time on the phone chasing down parts that may or may not be obsolete ... my opinion is that you are being penny wise and pound foolish to me.


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

First and foremost, I suggested that the OP may be in over his head, warned of the hazards when working with electricity and referred him to an appliance store for reference and high temp components. I then suggested that he do some pretty elementary things- take the case off and have a look for loose wires and burn marks. I specifically told him not to have the power on at this point. The only remotely dangerous thing that I suggested was to then turn the power on and check the heating element with the meter. Then you come along, bash me... and then tell him to power it up and put the meter on the heater. Ok...

Secondly, electronics and electrical are two very different things. A heat press is very much like a range/oven in concept of workings and wiring. A heat press can run just fine without the RTD, TRIAC, digital timer, digital temp setting, etc.

Third, I worked with Dwyer RTDs and Johnson Controls for eight years. I programmed and base wired them in house and then field installed them into industrial cooling towers.

Fourth, unless you are a desk jockey, you know very well that discontinued parts can be replaced with upgrades put out by the same company, competitors offerings and there are companies that specialize in replica replacements as well. You should have their catalogs. Flip to the back and you'll find the cross reference information. The original part number is ideal but if it's not legible then you can simply follow the slider guide by lining up the information that you do know (volts, amps, etc.) And as I mentioned above, it very well may be an item that can be skipped. More than likely, the manufacturer of the press being out of business won't mean much in the way of replacement parts anyway. Doubtful that they made the components in house. More like they called Dwyer for the RTD, Johnson for the controller, ABB for the breaker, etc.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

rawbhaze said:


> First and foremost, I suggested that the OP may be in over his head, warned of the hazards when working with electricity and referred him to an appliance store for reference and high temp components. I then suggested that he do some pretty elementary things- take the case off and have a look for loose wires and burn marks. I specifically told him not to have the power on at this point. *The only remotely dangerous thing that I suggested was to then turn the power on and check the heating element with the meter.
> 
> 
> Wrong. You missed my point on the green wire on the AC mains. I don't think you are really understanding safety design on appliances and you dodged my question about the function of the green wire. Perhaps you can look it up in Wikipedia.
> ...


*


See my mark-ups in the text above.*


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

I didn't dodge anything. It's really quite simple in and of itself. You are getting carried away about what may or may not be the problem(s) to components that the press may or may not have. The questions that you are asking of me are so silly that I thought you were being sarcastic.

To summarize the point that I tried to make in a previous post, the core functions of a heat press are electrical in nature and most comparable to ovens, stoves and ranges when it comes to appliances that are most readily available. A heat press is an electrical, not electronic, device. Thus the referral to a kitchen appliance repair store. As previously mentioned, the store will be able to provide the high temperature rated wire and high temp rated ceramic nuts and connectors. The TRIAC and RTD are items that likely would not be in stock but could either be ordered or an alternative used.

If there is even a TRIAC to begin with, it was not made exclusively for the press. Nor was the heat made specifically for it. The replacement TRIAC need not be the exact make and model of the original TRIAC used. Any TRIAC that meets the same criteria can be used. It may or may not physically mount differently but will wire the same. A part number is the easiest way to find a substitute. If a number is not legible or otherwise available then one would use the known information such as volts, amps, etc. to find a suitable replacement.

Most of this applies to the RTD as well.

Should replacements not be readily found (unlikely), deemed too expensive or too complicated for the OP then there remains the possibility to not use one or both entirely.

But this speculation and hypothetical in an argumentive manner about parts and pieces that may not even be part of the circuit is just plain silly. I will not continue to do it.

OP, crack the case open and have a look for the obvious: loose wires, burn marks, blown fuse, etc.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

rawbhaze said:


> I didn't dodge anything. It's really quite simple in and of itself. You are getting carried away about what may or may not be the problem(s) to components that the press may or may not have. The questions that you are asking of me are so silly that I thought you were being sarcastic.
> 
> *I'm not getting carried away with anything.*
> 
> ...


Mark ups above in your quotes.


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

That's a very patriotic post. Nice use of red, blue and asterisks that look like stars. Happy 4th.

You seem to be determined to "win" an argument as your critique of our exchange is more informative than the actual context of relaying useful information to the OP.

It is true that I was first to mention the RTD but I did not do so in a speculative manner. I simply asked Larry if the unit had one. That's it. Once he replied that he did not know what a RTD and TRIAC are I suggested that perhaps he skip the repair as a DIY project. The majority of the discussion thereafter was between the two of us. Speculation entered the picture when you started using "maybe", "suppose" and what if... scenarios. It's silly. It's childish.

As is significantly editing posts after the fact.

But you didn't stop there. You not only speculated problems but then speculated as to what my answers would be in a manner that isn't exactly flattering. I haven't provided any bad information in this thread. The two edits that I made to posts were to add a link to more information and to correct a spelling error. Anyone who cares about this petty exchange can reread the thread and see who said what, when and the context. I suspect that no one really cares. I think I'll take my cue from them and be done with the thread.

Larry, feel free to message me for any help. I am sorry for taking part in the derailing of the thread.


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

sandhopper2 said:


> *it is Dial for temp and time delay .*


Now then. Enough of the electronics talk.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

rawbhaze said:


> That's a very patriotic post. Nice use of red, blue and asterisks that look like stars. Happy 4th.
> 
> *Well it is the 4th of July you know.*
> 
> ...


See my 4th of July markups.


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## dglenniu03 (Nov 24, 2009)

You could always use an oven and wraps


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