# Mug printing problem



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

Hi all,

I'm printing 11oz mugs using wraps in a regular oven. 400 degrees. I can't get consistent results. Some mugs are spot on and some are faded with the paper scorched. I can't figure out what might be going on here. Any thoughts?

Separate question? How do you cool your mugs after printing with a wrap?


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I use a mug press for mine and cool them in a bowl of tepid water immediately after they come out of the press (and wrap). Your results should be the same if you are doing every thing exactly the same. You need a convection oven (please don't use your home cooking oven because the gas released can get into your food). The time needs to be measured exactly the same. AND you need the exact amount of pressure on each one.

I do water bottles with wraps and did tests to see how much pressure I needed. I measured the distance between the bolts on the wraps and once I got a tightness that gave awesome results I wrote that down and found something that would snugly fit between the bolts so that I could get the exact same tightness each time. I found that the thickness of a small crescent wrench was the perfect size for the water bottles. That's a different sized wrap by the way. The wraps that I used are bolt tightened. I have other wraps that attach by hooked action after a sufficient amount of elbow grease is applied. 

Faded and scorched means they weren't wrapped tightly enough or they were left in the oven too long.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Well that's good to know Loretta. Guess I have to go out and buy a Convection oven tomorrow. 

Thanks for the info.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

You can get one at Walmart for less than $80. That's where I got mine at. You just have to be sure the mug will fit nicely inside it without getting too close to the heating elements. I got a rotisserie, convection, conventional oven. 

They do recommend not using your home oven for sublimation because the ink turns into a gas (which is why you're supposed to do it in a well ventilated area too) and that gas can attach itself to the oven walls and when it gets reheated that ink turns back into a gas and theoretically can get onto your food. I would assume that if it isn't safe to breathe it most likely isn't safe to ingest either.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Loretta, May I ask you a question? Do you ship completed individual mugs to your customers, and if so, how to you pack them and which carrier? What's the average cost?

Thanks, Paul


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## helix-2000 (Nov 6, 2007)

I use a mug wrap but have oven at 350 and bake for 20 mins after up to temp and have had no issues.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Most of my customers only order one mug at a time. I wrap them in bubble wrap, put them in a 5" square box, and then wrap them again in bubble wrap and put in another box. Or just really bubble wrap the crap out of it and stuff it into the 7" x 7" x 6" box. I use USPS Priority Mail $5.95 to ship anywhere in the USA for the 7" x 7" x 6" sized box.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks Loretta. I'll check Wal-mart tomorrow, and also pickup more USPS 7" x 7" x 6" boxes and bubble wrap. 

Do you have a preferred Mug, and sublimation paper supplier? Sorry for all the questions. I was thinking of using Conde for both.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I use Conde for the mugs and bestblanks for the paper. I haven't tried Conde's paper yet because I'm still plowing through what's left of my bestblanks paper. I got a little carried away when I bought it... I use the MUG11 from conde.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks, I'll have to remember that when I purchase from them next.


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

How long are u pressing your mugs? If the paper is scorching, your are pressing too long. Where are u getting your mugs? If you are getting faded areas, u are not using enough pressure. Please feel free to call me.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Bought a Oaster Counter Top Oven from Costco for $50. Then printed the imprint on the Shiney side of the Paper. It was more like egg shell shine. 

After the ink dried (okay, the first one I touched with my finger before it dried). 
Wrapped it with the Cactus Wrap I bought from someone on this forum. 
Tightened using a 7/16 socket with the drill bit at 4. Torque level. 
The first one I warmed the oven for 5 minutes and cured for 16 minutes. 
It came out with a little burning and something like finger prints on the handle. 
The 2nd one was 16 minutes of curing, no burning, but still the finger tips. 
The last one really looked good at 15 minutes of curing. When I opened the door there was no finger print imprints on the handle. After the 2nd one my wife suggested using latex gloves too. 
However as I used the oven mit, I noticed the finger print imprint went right on. 

Tomorrow I'll go pick up a plain oven mit and see if that makes it better. 

Can't wait to try it again.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

They look good except for those fingerprints. Try getting the ove-glove, that's what I use. You might be able to cut your bake time down by preheating for 10 minutes and then baking for 14. If you go to conde's website they have pressing instructions on all of their products. You just have to sign up (it's free). And you can print it out for reference later on. I have a printed copy in my press room with notes on each of them about different settings I used & what the results were.


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

Where are you getting r mugs from?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I bought my mugs from a lady in California who was selling the wraps, and mugs she had. This was like two years ago. I don't think she was able to figure out sublimation and she gave up. 

I bought two wraps and about 18 mugs for $35 shipped. 

When I'm ready to order my next order of mugs I'll go through Conde's website or call the toll free number.


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

If your not gping to make an order for a while, call your sales rep and ask if they will send u a sample mug.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Who would my sales rep be?


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

Send me a PM with your name and telephone numvber. I will check and see.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

lben said:


> I use Conde for the mugs and bestblanks for the paper. I haven't tried Conde's paper yet because I'm still plowing through what's left of my bestblanks paper. I got a little carried away when I bought it... I use the MUG11 from conde.


Thanks for the info. I just purchased 72 MUG11's from Conde this morning. I am using TexPrint R from them also with a Ricoh printer. I purchased a mugpress a few days ago from Proworld, so we will trying it out shortly.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

To close the loop on my own question. I started Curing the mugs in a convection oven and added a sheet between the graphic and the wrap. All is well.

Thanks for you help.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

brice said:


> To close the loop on my own question. I started Curing the mugs in a convection oven and added a sheet between the graphic and the wrap. All is well.
> 
> Thanks for you help.


Glad things worked out for you. 
We pressed our first mugs just a few minutes ago. We are using the #11 Mug from Conde. They came out very nice but I am going to have to tweak it a bit. My RGB black is coming out dark brown. I pressed them at 400 degrees for 270 seconds with firm pressure in the Transpro press. Any idea where the adjustment needs to be, time, temp or pressure?


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I usually do mugs at 375F, firm pressure, for 360 seconds and mine come out ok.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

lben said:


> I usually do mugs at 375F, firm pressure, for 360 seconds and mine come out ok.


Thanks Loretta, I'll try those settings.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

LB said:


> Thanks Loretta, I'll try those settings.


That's in a press by the way, not a wrap.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

lben said:


> That's in a press by the way, not a wrap.


Yep, press here too with #11 Mugs


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Brice, what kind of sheet did you add, Parchment Paper? 

We used a Separate Convection Oven, 400 degrees, for 15 minutes. They came out great. 

The first compule of attempts had Finger Print looking marks. Turned out to be the Oven Mit Print. 

Replaced the Oven Mit with Magic Gloves, and everything comes out great. 

To tighten the Wrap we use a Drill with Torgue. Turn the torgue to 4, and when it doesn't tighten any more it makes a weird noise. Stop your ready to go.


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## Sues Shirts (May 17, 2011)

We use mug wraps and a convection oven. We run at 400 degrees for 15 minutes. We get great results. We switched to Conde and have been happy so far.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks James. You confirmed I have the right time. Since we bought our first two wraps from a person that never used them, and didn't have the instruction. We just tried it with the information we gathered via this forum and youTube.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

selanac said:


> Brice, what kind of sheet did you add, Parchment Paper?
> 
> We used a Separate Convection Oven, 400 degrees, for 15 minutes. They came out great.
> 
> ...


 I used plain copy paper. The wrap was hand tightened. Nothing special there. I don't think the wrap has to be as precisely tightened as you describe. I've never had problems with finger prints.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

My problem turned out to be the Oven Mitt I was using. We changed to Magic Oven Gloves. They work Great. 

No we have to work on cutting the image straight. Think I'll use a metal ruler and blade for that.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I got one of those what ever they're called, guillotine?, don't know. It is a paper cutter with an arm that comes down to cut with. I am able to use the ruler to line up my transfers to cut in the same place each time.


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## Sues Shirts (May 17, 2011)

We use a cutting board to trim and straighten out the edges. This makes it easy to align the image.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

We have the paper cutter whose arm swings down, but I thought it crimped the edges. My wife says it doesn't.

We can always get one that has a blade that slides across.


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## Sues Shirts (May 17, 2011)

It does not on our's.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I solved that problem by buying pre-cut mug paper. Works great.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Brice, where do you buy the Pre-cut Mug Paper from?


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

All you have to do is cut your paper lengthwise down the middle. The print area on a mug is about 3.5" x 8.5". If you go to the full 9" the parts closest to the edge of the wrap or press won't come out all the way by the handle.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I get my paper from ACP.com. You can cut the 8.5x11 sheets as suggested. They will just be larger than you need. I have a guillotine cutter, but I prefer to still buy the paper pre cut.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Saw that ACP.com's pre-cut paper is 9" wide x 3.5" high is that correct? They state backward.


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## Sues Shirts (May 17, 2011)

That is one strange looking mug !


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

lben said:


> I usually do mugs at 375F, firm pressure, for 360 seconds and mine come out ok.


I tried these settings and they work just fine.
I figured out why my black was coming out brown, I used a graphic that was created by someone that used cmyk colors and I did not convert to rgb. I am printing with a Ricoh 3300 using Conde's profile. When I changed the colors they came out perfect.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

It's correct. 9 wide x3.25 high = 3.35 high x9 wide


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

LB, are you the one that just bought a Mug Press?

Wraps work really well too, and they cost $26.00 or less. Conde has them. You do need a separate oven, but I bought a really good one at Costco, Oster for $50.00. I can fit about 5 or 6 mugs.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> LB, are you the one that just bought a Mug Press?
> 
> Wraps work really well too, and they cost $26.00 or less. Conde has them. You do need a separate oven, but I bought a really good one at Costco, Oster for $50.00. I can fit about 5 or 6 mugs.


I have done wraps before. I moved a while back and my wraps-had 6 of them-got lost. Proworld offered these presses at 1/2 price-less than a $100.00 because they had some rusty screws in a couple of places. Offer was too good to refuse. I am very pleased with the press, it's quick, easy and as far as I can tell about a wash on time compared to wraps. I can do 3 mugs in about 15-18 minutes. The temperature and timer controls are accurate and I don't have to have a separate convection oven. 
Merry Xmas!


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Time is money. You do have an Oven, it's the press. 

If you don't mind it doesn't matter. (Mind over Matter). Lol.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> Time is money. You do have an Oven, it's the press.
> 
> If you don't mind it doesn't matter. (Mind over Matter). Lol.


Naa..I was doing laser toner transfers and we did it in the kitchen oven.
In my case I have more time now than I have money LOL.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

LB, are you selling your own designs, or selling mugs to customers with their logo?


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> LB, are you selling your own designs, or selling mugs to customers with their logo?


As I said, I just started doing mugs. However, the only way I see to make much money appears to be able to do quantity. Subsequently, I believe my direction is going to be to business doing their logos.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Yes, and you're competing with all the Promotional Advertising folks.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> Yes, and you're competing with all the Promotional Advertising folks.


Is there any way to sell something without competition? Let me in on the secret


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

As a promotional products distributor I can tell you that if you are doing volume (say > 50 or 100) and sublimate, it will be very difficult for you to compete with me. Your cost will be my selling price, in most cases. I sublimate for the short run custom jobs and frankly that's where the money is. I'd make more money doing 50 custom mugs for 25-50 different people than doing 100 mugs for 1 person. Labor will be higher, but revenues are 5-10 times higher for one offs.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I also have a Pad Printer. That's where you make the money. 

LB: Promotional Advertisers produce hundreds to thousands for almost nothing.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree about th pad printer, but I'm finding the work few and far between. I have an auto unit and can produce about 700-800 pieces per hour, but I spend more time cleaning up and prepping than actually printing.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> I also have a Pad Printer. That's where you make the money.
> 
> LB: Promotional Advertisers produce hundreds to thousands for almost nothing.


Oh, I won't argue that point, but where I am there are lots of small businesses that buy products from people they know and want to support the local trade. I am looking for the guy that wants 36 plus cups or so. A great many of these folks don't go out on the net and search the whole world for the cheapest price. This is just one of the things I do. Laser cutting and engraving is what we do the most of and being mostly retired, I have a lot of time to devote to doing what I like to do, more so than what makes the most money.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

That's very good to hear LB. Sounds like your all a bunch of Smart Business People. 

Wish our neck of the woods was like that.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> That's very good to hear LB. Sounds like your all a bunch of Smart Business People.
> 
> Wish our neck of the woods was like that.


Hahaha..don't know much about bein smart...if I was smart I be RICH! LOL


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

We're Rich compared to the rest of the world.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

LB said:


> As I said, I just started doing mugs. However, the only way I see to make much money appears to be able to do quantity. Subsequently, I believe my direction is going to be to business doing their logos.


I can buy 72 sublimated mugs from a supplier for 189.80.....Hardly worth doing it yourself when you add up the sum of the parts......


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Does that include the artwork?


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

They print what I send them....So that price is for decorated mugs.....


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

royster13 said:


> I can buy 72 sublimated mugs from a supplier for 189.80.....Hardly worth doing it yourself when you add up the sum of the parts......


That's really cheap. That's $2.63 each -Is that American money? Many places pay more than $2.00, just for the mug. Doesn't seem worthwhile even for them. That's not a delivered price is it?


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## Imageit (Dec 22, 2011)

Are all the wraps the same age...they are only guaranteed for 400 impressions. If I had to guess without seeing your process you either have loose transfers or inconsistency in how tight you have the wraps on each mug. The other variable could be you have pockets within the oven that aren't maintaining 400.

FYI in case you didn't know this never cook food out of the same oven you are sublimating in as the inks leave gases within the oven that can cause cancer.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Did not know you only got 400 imprints.


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## Imageit (Dec 22, 2011)

Are they wraps made by Cactus? if so yeah they only recommend 400 impressions although some do last way longer before showing decreased quality and fading.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I believe the lining of a mug press is made of the same material.


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## Imageit (Dec 22, 2011)

Yes it is but doesn't wear out in the same manner as wraps do....I was under the impression you were using mug wraps.....the silicone pad inside the mug press will maintain consistent heat for a long time. that changes the game a little with your problems. Have you done any test to check to make sure the pressure around the mug is consistent from top to bottom of the mug when pressure is applied to the mug in the press? If not a quick way to do that is cut a piece of paper into 3-4 strips and place them in the press with the mug in a row from the top of the mug down. Once you apply the pressure try to pull each strip out...if one of them easily comes out or seems to have less resistance than another your mug press might be slightly out of round or your silicone heat pad might be worn more in that area than the rest of the pad. What type of mug press are you using....if it is an upright mug press that could be a problem as well as I never had much success with the presses where the mug sits upright. The Geo-Knight mug press i always thought was the best in terms of mug presses. I thought you stated you were using an oven though?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I do have Wraps, maybe it was someone else


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## mmoguls (Mar 9, 2009)

Ok, so I have to ask...why aren't you buying a mug heat press? i bought my first one used on eBay, and the results are perfect every time. Now I have three presses, am doing production runs of up to 100 mugs, the product is super consistent. I recently began hot peeling the paper, that did away with all browning and fades.

Hope this helps you,

dANNY8bALL
WWW.SANJOSEMUGS.COM


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mmoguls said:


> Ok, so I have to ask...why aren't you buying a mug heat press? i bought my first one used on eBay, and the results are perfect every time. Now I have three presses, am doing production runs of up to 100 mugs, the product is super consistent. I recently began hot peeling the paper, that did away with all browning and fades.
> 
> Hope this helps you,
> 
> ...


Love that "Drunkin Grownups" mug on your website.


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## mmoguls (Mar 9, 2009)

Hey, thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it! 

On this subject of pricing and profitablility, I tend to disagree. I'll do the one mug for grandma, the 12 personalized birthday mugs, and yes, they do make money. But I also print mugs for NASA, and Cisco. The Key for me is LOCAL. I pick up my mugs to imprint. They pick up their finished mugs, there is no shipping. And folks like to come see WHO is making thier products. Again, this depends on who you are local to!

Here's a real doozy- HOW MUCH do you charge for:

1 Sublimated Mug

12 mugs

50 mugs

100+ mugs

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Mogul, I worked for NASA Ames Research Center if that's still the name, years ago. 

Cool huh?

Nice job. 

We use wraps cause we can do several at a time. Five or six per oven.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

selanac said:


> Mogul, I worked for NASA Ames Research Center if that's still the name, years ago.
> 
> Cool huh?
> 
> ...


*

*Can you do six mugs in 30 minutes, including putting on the wraps? 
Do you figure the economy in time savings is that when you put them in the oven, you have 20 minutes or so to do other things while their cooking?I can do six in thirty minutes with this press. I use Conde Pro Spray to put the printed paper on and then I peel it hot. Works good.


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