# Brother or Epson DTG ????



## MGK (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello Community !!!!

I am a first time poster.

I am looking to purchase a second machine and can't decide between the Brother 381 or Epson F2000.

My general concerns:

1) Speed
2) Cost of ink
3) Reliability of ink. I am seeing too much cracking on dark shirts with my current machine.
4) Ease of maintenance.
5) What else ???

Thank you !!!


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

Questions:

1. What is your current machine?
2. What is your current print cycle look like? Daily?
3. What volume of shirts do you print at your busiest and your slowest periods?
4. Do you print alone or with assistance?
5. How good are you at maintenance, and how good are you at repairing things yourself?

The Epson F2000 is brand new. You will NOT get a very neutral review of it at this point in time.


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## MGK (Apr 7, 2014)

> Questions:
> 
> 1. What is your current machine?
> 2. What is your current print cycle look like? Daily?
> ...


Thank you Treefox2118 !!!

1) DTG Viper
2, 3) 100 shirts / day pretty consistently.
4) We have two people manning machine and heat press
5) I am fine with typical maintenance but not comfortable really getting under the hood.

I know the Brother works with an oven. Will an Epson work with an oven ?

Thank you !


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## scotney86 (Mar 15, 2011)

Where are you based MGK?

As Treefox said............ The Epson F2000 is brand new. You will NOT get a very neutral review of it at this point in time.

I know it wasnt an option in the OP but I'd personally prefer to have 2 x R-Jet 5 printers for the cost of 1 of the named printers. The amount you will save on Ink costs (as you wont be paying manufacturers costs) will soon wipe out any difference in expense.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Epson has better print quality then the Brother...especially when using the NeoRip software! The Epson has some very innovative components specific to helping resolve some of the maintenance issues that arise from DTG printing. Epson print heads are EXPONENTIALLY cheaper. On the Epson all ink channels run through a manifold system and then jetted through the print head. The Brother unit uses a separate print head for each ink channel and each one costs more than replacing the entire Epson print head. There are some other details too but that is the basics.

If it were my money I would buy the Epson 100 times before buying a Brother or Anajet or basically any other single platen printer....especially when paired with NeoRip...it's just about unbeatable imo!


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Dekay317 said:


> Epson print heads are EXPONENTIALLY cheaper. On the Epson all ink channels run through a manifold system and then jetted through the print head. The Brother unit uses a separate print head for each ink channel and each one costs more than replacing the entire Epson print head.


Eric,

I have not heard the price on an Epson print head for the F2000 - since it is a newer head. What is the replacement price you heard?

Mark


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Mark I haven't heard any hard numbers yet and since they are providing a 1 year warranty on the print head maybe it's still tbd. Let me apologize by assuming it would be cheaper. I was thinking about the DX5 when I wrote that..my bad.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

The TFP head for wideformat epsons costs 1200 - 2000 $. So textile version will not be cheaper.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Ink price: Brother is cheaper these days. Was higher before.
They sell some direct and has refill system to big users for free(?)
Epson: only through dealer for now. lol. Keyword? 

Print quality: talk is cheap. Get samples from Brother Dealers and Epson dealers. Include AA(me) Lol. 

Warranty Printhead : Epson won.
Brother print head is Kyocera. Buy and sell
Epson: Eposn mfging. Cheaper.

They have to service best because new kid on the block. As same as New Restraunt open.

End user price tag. Epson $18995. Brother higher but no interest on leasing. AA lost couple deals over that.

Brother RIP only choice.
Epson: EPSON RIP (Garment Creator) plus many other choices. All 3rd parties offer free demos. 

Who have longer history on printing? Epson.
Who will be more aggressive for make deal? Brother 
Epson has set price. Not a penny. 

Are both or one is king of jungle? That is biggger question. Lol.

Cheers! Inks are on me always.


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

Expect Brother to move lower on ink pricing soon (as Peter would say, plus or minus)... Also Brother has replaced newer printheads under warranty for some folks -- but that's not in writing, I don't think.

Printhead is a consumable part like ink or capping station. Every print job should include the cost of printhead amortization in it. Add a nickel to each job on the Epson and put those nickels in a big piggy bank. No idea what cost per print for the printheads on the Brother might be.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Peter,

I usually stay out of these conversations, but there just seems to be inaccurate information that is being posted in this thread. Maybe it is just your translation. So let me add some clarification for the original poster.

Mark



allamerican said:


> Warranty Printhead : Epson won.


Not sure how or why you can say this? With the purchase of a F2000 printer, Epson warranties its print head for one year. With the purchase of a GT-3 printer, Brother warranties all its print heads. The number of print heads will vary depending on the setup you have (4, 6, 8 print heads). Both companies warranty all the necessary print heads in the printers.



allamerican said:


> Brother print head is Kyocera. Buy and sell
> Epson: Eposn mfging. Cheaper.


Not sure where you get the information from that the print head used in the GT printers came from Kyocera. Look at the GT-3 brochure - [media]http://www.brother-usa.com/VirData/Content/en-US/GarmentPrinters/ModelBrochures/GT3%20Brochure.pdf[/media]. It clearly states "Brother Original Printheads" and "Brother Technology". You know that the Legal Dept at Brother is not going to allow them to put that out there if it was not true.



allamerican said:


> They have to service best because new kid on the block. As same as New Restraunt open.


Not sure why you think the newest restaurant is going to have the best service. No one knows how well Epson's service is going to be with the F2000 printer. Many of us expect it to be good. However, any statement one way or the other is speculation at best.



allamerican said:


> Brother RIP only choice.
> Epson: EPSON RIP (Garment Creator) plus many other choices. All 3rd parties offer free demos.


Since 2005, Brother has had their own print driver that is included with the sale of a GT printer. Recently, Brother teamed up with CADLink to create an aftermarket RIP software for their printers. GT users have the ability to purchase the RIP if they want, but are not required.



allamerican said:


> Who have longer history on printing? Epson.


Epson started manufacturing digital printers in 1968. Brother started manufacturing digital printers in 1971. Brother shipped its first dtg printer in 2005. Epson shipped its first dtg printer in 2014.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

treefox2118 said:


> Also Brother has replaced newer printheads under warranty for some folks -- but that's not in writing, I don't think.


Since Jan 2014, Brother GT warranty includes the print heads in a GT-3 printer. Here is the text from the page specifically speaking about the GT-381 printer - GT-381 Digital Garment T-Shirt Printers | Brother GraffiTee GT-3 Series. 

_2 Year Limited Warranty, One Full Year Bumper-to-Bumper, Including Printheads. (Applies to models purchased after 1/1/14. After 90 days, customer responsible for travel related to parts replacement. See warranty for full details.)_​This is fairly new, so many people are not aware of this.

Mark


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

DAGuide said:


> _2 Year Limited Warranty, One Full Year Bumper-to-Bumper, Including Printheads. (Applies to models purchased after 1/1/14. After 90 days, customer responsible for travel related to parts replacement. See warranty for full details.)_​



I do see one difference. The Epson warranty that is included with the F2000 Printer covers a tech coming out to service the printer for an entire year at no charge. 
_


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

@DAGuide:

Brother's GT warranty also specifies "Permit a Brother representative to provide On-Site Warranty Service by providing access to this Product at reasonable times and by providing adequate working space, including heat, light, ventilation, electric current and outlets for use by the Brother representative, together with reasonable cooperation in troubleshooting to diagnose the problem. “On-Site Warranty Service” means remedial service during Normal Working Hours at your location to restore the Product to good operating condition under normal usage at no charge for parts and labor (or travel for the first 90 days after the date of Installation) and does not guarantee uninterrupted operation of the Product. Please note that you will be charged labor costs for the replacement of printed circuit boards. “Normal Working Hours” shall mean 9:00 A.M. to 7:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Monday through Friday, excluding legal and local holidays observed by Brother."

So it appears they infer some sort of on site warranty may be provided during the first 90 days, if I'm reading it correctly. Not guaranteed, but it seems they may provide it under certain circumstances.


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

It is a long debate, apple vs pc, mimaki vs roland, brother and sister lol

As a end user, I prefer proven printer with great positive feedback based on dx5 head.

This is really easy to maintain machine, lot of support here on the forum.

As what dx5 realiable printer model to choose, the forum should tell the answer easy.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

im getting two new white printheads in a week or two for my 341, they are guaranteed for one year by Brother. The Epson does look great, but my brother has given me zero problems for the last 18 months, if i was buying now im not sure where i would jump tbh.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

End less debate.
No time for open history book. But we can open Epson forum LOL.
Exactly Kyocera look. I don't have time to research. Same look. Aeoon uses most recent 1"x4" head. If I am Brother owner I will hope it is Kyocera. One of best heads.
Mark,
I like new Warranty. getting better and better.
Both are good printers. Both have market but they will share sudden customers.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/epson-surecolor-dtg-printers/t229469.html
My view: Brother received challenge by Epson on Brother territory to share.
There are customers who will pay high Ink cost for less maintenance.
There are customers who want to relax for One year(not Pay). Printhead is Once. Not unlimited. On site is limited too.
Well~. Put all eggs in one bucket is dangerous. 
If I am a buyer I also will hesitate to choose one.
Since I am a seller better shut up.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.


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