# Infringement or just shady?



## Adrenochrome1 (Mar 15, 2017)

I was faced with a dilemma today that I am not exactly sure how to go about. 
Let me start from the beginning.

My company works closely with a professional minor league team. We have worked together for just over a year printing garments for their team shop. Everything has been solid. Orders have been non-stop and we have a very good working relationship. 

As with most garment decorators, your shop is only as strong as your graphic department. We have built a reputation for our artwork as we are designers that learned how to screen print years ago. Not the other way around like it seems to be in every other shop around town We take pride in knowing that we can do things our closest competitors cannot. 

Today I received a call from the purchaser of said sports team. They are currently working on a deal to begin selling promotional product in other stores. Sounds awesome for me right?

Here is the catch...

That store is currently under contract to print elsewhere, which I completely understand. However, they are asking ME for the print files from a particular design we did a few months ago. First off, I feel a bit offended to even be asked. Basically, they are saying to me, "Hey, we are going to weasel our way into your printing but since we suck at artwork, can we just use yours?" I would never call another print shop to ask for past customer's artwork. 

I find the whole thing bizarre considering the team could just order more of this design from me and just sell it to the store. That is how all of our business is done. 

My question is, considering the design does carry a Trademark logo inside the overall design, do I have any legal rights on something like this? If the design is copied, can I go after infringement? I have already told the team that I have no intentions of turning over the print files. Not only is it tacky, but it reveals trade secrets to a competitor.

Let me know what you think. I am worried about pissing off a very big client of mine. However, I can't just roll over on something like this.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Who owns the artwork? If you do, is the art specific to that team or generic enough to use elsewhere?

If you own the artwork, and it is specific to that team, then you really have only two roads you can go down; the high road and the low road.

The high road is giving up the art in the hopes of (or making it contingent on) getting the print job when the other contract expires. You're feelings will be hurt, and you'll lose some income (that you weren't counting on anyway), but you haven't burnt any bridges.

The low road is to play tough, hold on to artwork you can't use anywhere else, and lose a good customer forever.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

I take your word for it that your art is better than your competitors. But in this case, the subject of the art isn't just yours... it includes the trademarked team logo. So even if you "own" your art, you certainly don't own the team logo. So the value of the art is a combination of your creative work AND the team logo. So rather than get shut out of the deal, figure out a way to play ball. This sounds like a licensing deal where everyone should get their share. If you are providing the artwork but another shop is doing the printing, then work out a royalty deal where you get paid for your part in the process.


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## Adrenochrome1 (Mar 15, 2017)

kimura-mma said:


> I take your word for it that your art is better than your competitors. But in this case, the subject of the art isn't just yours... it includes the trademarked team logo. So even if you "own" your art, you certainly don't own the team logo. So the value of the art is a combination of your creative work AND the team logo. So rather than get shut out of the deal, figure out a way to play ball. This sounds like a licensing deal where everyone should get their share. If you are providing the artwork but another shop is doing the printing, then work out a royalty deal where you get paid for your part in the process.


We gave it a lot of thought last night and this is the route we are going to take. I have started talking to the team purchaser to explain that even if I handed the file over to them, the shirt is going to be different. It would be better for them to purchase the shirt through us and then sell it to the store so they have a sense of quality control. 

This particular job is a spot process. Unless I turned over the entire specs of the job (lpi/angle, mesh count, inks, additives, and curing) the shirt is going to vary from the original order. Another issue I have taken into account is, our name could possibly be tied to an inferior product that we essentially had nothing to do with. 

We will see how it goes. I am apparently getting a bunch of work from them later today so I don't think I have burned any bridges. At least yet. Haha!


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## bpfohler (Jun 7, 2009)

I"d love to know how you make out, please let us know.


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## bomber315 (Jun 18, 2010)

Another screen printer or even a customer i suspect may go elsewhere gets nothing but 72dpi, half sized images from me. They are good enough to show on a cell phone or computer screen, but when it comes to printing it doesn't work well.

Dont get me wrong, i share plenty with people who cut vinyl or design websites... But when i have suspicion of screen printing i dont play well.


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## Adrenochrome1 (Mar 15, 2017)

bomber315 said:


> If i were you, another screen printing or even a customer i suspect may go elsewhere gets nothing but 72dpi, half sized images from me. They are good enough to show on a cell phone or computer screen, but when it comes to printing it doesn't work well.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, i share plenty with people who cut vinyl or design websites... But when i have suspicion of screen printing i dont play well.


They already obtained the original proof without my permission, which is exactly that, 72 dpi. To me, if your shop can't recreate the image, then you have no business printing it. Print shops are only as good as their graphic designers.

I am starting to think that the purchaser made promises to this company not even thinking about how the artwork was created. I have a funny feeling that the store in question assumed the team created the artwork themselves. Apparently, they are already sitting on the stack of blanks ready for print. Sorry for you guys.

I'll let you guys know how this pans out.


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## abmcdan (Sep 14, 2007)

That's a tough one but just because you hand over the artwork that doesn't mean you need to hand over your production settings that you described.

If you're confident that they won't get a good product with just the art, then give them the art and when the other printer can't match your print quality you'll end up getting the job back.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

One thing I have learned in this business is you can throw a rock in any direction and hit 5 guys doing the same thing. We get and lose customers all the time for various reasons but our team and club work comes and goes with who is 'in charge' which seems to change quite frequently. Someone always has another shop to do the work. 

Maybe turning it around on them and enter into an exclusive agreement with the team to produce their product. Not out of the question. 

I would never hand over the specs. The next thing after that will be calls with questions on it. 

At best giving the bitmap proof or even a vector (maybe a small fee for that) but not the seps, colors or anything else. Let them figure it out. Once you give up the files you will probably never see them again anyway. 

Good luck.


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## Maxcat (Nov 23, 2014)

With new owners you have a new business relationship, not really an existing one anymore.

When I was self employed in a professional services business I never once came out ahead with someone saying "hey, help us out this one time and we'll keep you so busy your head will spin" or other comments similar to that. I've never once come out ahead when being the one to give first.

Couple of thoughts without getting into bad mouthing your competitor. Get one of their worst shirts and one of your best. Sit down with the new owners and run through the differences in both design and print quality. Along with that point out that many people/businesses etc. are very familiar with your work and plain and simple you don't want people to confuse this other shop with your work as no matter how good they are they will not be able to match you 100%. You could face reputational harm when they inevitably don't get it right.

I would also discuss the years spent honing your design and printing skills and you are not here to provide training to your competitors. The way you design and print is also a proprietary trade secret. I don't know if there is any type of player draft involved in minor league but ask them if they are willing to share their scouting reports with the other teams before draft day and hopefully the light bulb goes off for them. If there is no minor league draft come up with another scenario where they would not want to give up information to their competitors.

If push comes to shove and you feel you absolutely have to give up the info get something now, upfront, longer contract, written order for future work etc. If the client is incredibly important to your business give the other guy as little as possible and let them hang themselves.


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## Adrenochrome1 (Mar 15, 2017)

I appreciate everyone's thought on this. I took all of the advise and kind of compiled it together in an email along with a less detailed follow up phone call. I did my best to steer clear of my personal emotions on this and it freaking worked. 

Got a call a day later and we are now printing all of the garments for the store! To avoid contract issues, we are billing through the team. This is honestly the first time I have ever played hard ball with something major on the line. Everyone involved our company, had the same stance, so we were mutual in not giving in on this. 

All of the garments are being dropped off today and we begin printing tomorrow morning.


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## bpfohler (Jun 7, 2009)

Excellent!!


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## BeenThereBefore (Apr 15, 2008)

I'd also like to know how things work out? Figure a quick call to your attorney would clear things up "legally" but there is always the "business side" to consider.


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## Maxcat (Nov 23, 2014)

Adrenochrome1 said:


> I appreciate everyone's thought on this. I took all of the advise and kind of compiled it together in an email along with a less detailed follow up phone call. I did my best to steer clear of my personal emotions on this and it freaking worked.
> 
> Got a call a day later and we are now printing all of the garments for the store! To avoid contract issues, we are billing through the team. This is honestly the first time I have ever played hard ball with something major on the line. Everyone involved our company, had the same stance, so we were mutual in not giving in on this.
> 
> All of the garments are being dropped off today and we begin printing tomorrow morning.


Very Cool, glad it all worked out for you.


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## alrozac (Dec 20, 2012)

We get customers asking for their artwork often. If the design was created by us we would usually sell it to them, not overly priced as the new printer can always redraw from a shirt you already did. If the customer owns the art and wants the vector files, then I would figure out how much time went into creating the files and charge accordingly. The positives are a big "sorry but no!!!" You know the customer is leaving, might as well get a few final dollars from him.


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