# Review on different vinyls and equipment



## BURNTtoast (May 28, 2011)

Hey guys,

I figured this post could help people just getting into vinyl as well as those who are looking for some information on different vinyls and what equipment to go with. I am new to the vinyl world and i've been doing some research on which vinyl to get and what equipment to go with. 

I now have the Hotronix 16x20 auto open press and the gcc expert 24 as well as *four* different brands of vinyl! I will be reviewing the Siser Easyweed Stretch, CHEMICA Hotmark, Thermoflex Plus, and Joto Multicut Ultra as well as the equipment I have. Also added the settings I found to work well, for me that is, cause all machines are different but at least it'll give you a starting point. 45 degree blade used for everything.

*Hotronix 16x20* 

First I'd like to start off by saying the people at Hotronix are phenomenal with customer service. Upon receiving my press I noticed something was damaged and they shipped out the part pronto and I got it within two days, probably would have gotten it sooner if it wasn't the weekend too! They even sent me out an extra set of gas shocks free of charge just incase. It's such a straight forward machine and it's built to last that's for sure, love the dual time feature as well as the digital pressure gauge and auto open feature. I'm not saying this press is the best out there, but I absolutely love it and am 100% satisfied with my purchase.

*GCC Expert 24
*
I was a little skeptical about getting this cutter at first because, well for me I associate stuff priced relatively cheap to be cheap in the way they operate. BUT MAN WAS I WRONG!! Haha, I bought my cutter through Roger and this man knows how to take care of customers. I was in complete awe when I saw the detail this thing could cut. Software loaded no problem on my pc, running windows 7 32bit. I was able to cut detail down to 1/32" of an inch and the accuracy is spot on that's all I can say. Yes it has a stepper motor, yes it sounds like R2D2 but it gets the job done and it gets it done fast. The only thing I don't like about it, the *plastic* piece that wraps around the blade holder is locked with a hook and slit design and if you're not careful and I mean VERY careful, it'll break, just like mine did. I was as gentle as possible and it snapped like nothing. Thankfully, Ruth came to the rescue and sent me one next day, she is absolutely amazing. Again, 100% satisfied with this purchase. 

*Easyweed Stretch*

This was the first vinyl I got my hands on, specifically for the matte finish and how thin it is. Wow, was my first impression. It's unbelievably thin and the hand is absolutely amazing. Followed the instructions spot on and this stuff peeled like butter. I was able to cut detail as thin as 1/32". That's not even the cool part. After being washed once, I swear this material looks like plastisol. I did notice that corners and sharp angles did lift off so that's the only "bad" thing I have to say about this vinyl, and it's somewhat pricey. Also, I try to set my origin as close as possible to an edge or corner to maximize vinyl usage but, I've found this vinyl too thin and it'll bunch up under the blade, so I set my origin at least 3/4" from the leading end and edge. Limited color choice.

FORCE: 55-58g
SPEED: 58

MEDIUM PRESSURE 5-6
305-308F
5 SEC PRE PRESS 15 FINAL AND THEN ANOTHER 5 SEC HIT

*CHEMICA Hotmark*

I was also able to cut detail as fine as 1/32" but I noticed when weeding this vinyl it tends to tear, similar to stripping old paint off a car or the likes. Regardless of that, the vinyl weeds very easily. With this vinyl I can set the origin at 1/4" from the leading end and edge because it's a little thicker than the Easyweed Stretch. Cold peel eh, not my preference but it peels pretty good. Good color choices. Matte finish.

FORCE: 65G
SPEED: 60

MEDIUM HEAVY PRESSURE 7-8 
315-318F
5 SEC PRE PRESS 20 FINAL AND THEN ANOTHER 5 SEC HIT

*Thermoflex Plus*

Again with this vinyl I was able to cut detail as fine as 1/32" and weeding was a breeze. I'd have to say this vinyl was probably the thickest of the four, but when I say thickest, don't take it as "thick like plastic". No, not at all, this stuff is very thin, It just so happens to be the thickest of the bunch. Pressed with no problems and peels well. I was also able to set my origin very close to the leading end and edge with this vinyl which is great. Pretty good color choices, but this vinyl is pretty pricey and only comes in 15" rolls. Matte finish.

FORCE: 65-67G
SPEED: 60

MEDUM HEAVY PRESSURE 7-8
333F
5 SEC PRE PRESS 20 FINAL AND THEN ANOTHER 5 SEC HIT 

*Joto Multicut Ultra*

Since you have to get Joto direct, I've found their customer service to be welcoming and helpful. They sent me samples and a swatches with no hesitation. The suggested cutting force is 120g and let me tell you, that is way too much! Just about cut through the vinyl and the backing. I found the ideal force to be around 72-75. Weeds like nothing and peels like butter. Very satisfied with this vinyl. It's also 4 bucks cheaper than the stretch and you get an extra yard, not too shabby! Many colors and a matte finish.

FORCE: 72-75G
SPEED: 60

MEDIUM PRESSURE 5-6
320-325F
5 SEC PRE PRESS 20 FINAL AND THEN ANOTHER 5 SEC HIT

Now as far as which I liked the most, I can't quite say. There are things that I liked about every one of them as far as hand, stretchability, price, size and so on. There are also other vinyls that i'd like to try like the Cadcut Premium Plus. But I can rank them as far as thickness: 1. Siser Easyweed Stretch 2. Tie Joto & Hotmark 3. Thermoflex Plus. Again, these are all VERY thin vinyls and it all comes down to what your preferences are. 

I will conduct a wash test tomorrow and see how everything holds up. Everything will be pressed on an Alstyle 1701 tee. I'm looking forward to seeing how the hotmark holds up because i've heard it gets a weird wrinkly look after it's been washed. I'll also post pictures of what I've cut so far and obviously the after math of some intense washing!


Thanks guys and I hope those of you researching what vinyl to go with find this helpful!

-Pat


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

BURNTtoast said:


> *GCC Expert 24
> *
> I was a little skeptical about getting this cutter at first because, well for me I associate stuff priced relatively cheap to be cheap in the way they operate. BUT MAN WAS I WRONG!! Haha, I bought my cutter through Roger and this man knows how to take care of customers. I was in complete awe when I saw the detail this thing could cut. Software loaded no problem on my pc, running windows 7 32bit. I was able to cut detail down to 1/32" of an inch and the accuracy is spot on that's all I can say. Yes it has a stepper motor, yes it sounds like R2D2 but it gets the job done and it gets it done fast. The only thing I don't like about it, the *plastic* piece that wraps around the blade holder is locked with a hook and slit design and if you're not careful and I mean VERY careful, it'll break, just like mine did. I was as gentle as possible and it snapped like nothing. Thankfully, Ruth came to the rescue and sent me one next day, she is absolutely amazing. Again, 100% satisfied with this purchase.
> 
> ...


Roger is an excellent resource for GCC Cutters, very knowledable and extremely helpful customers

ThermoFlex comes in other size. PM me for a chart


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## mmonk (Oct 23, 2011)

I am just about to pull the plug on a vinyl cutter...who is this Roger you speak of?? And where can I find his vast knowledge and customer service skills??


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Roger Brinkman aka Plan B (TSF member name)

www.heatpressvinyl.com

I will have him PM you.

What else seems to be the problem?


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Did you ever do the wash test?

And were you peeling the Joto Multicut Ultra hot or warm?

Though I don't see how you got 1/32". When I cut real small, I've had problems with the small bits lifting up. But I think that is probably because the GCC Expert 24 doesn't have an overcut feature. So sometimes it doesn't cut everything 100% of the way through which lets some pieces pull up when weeding.

What settings are you going to use to wash and dry the shirts?


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I do not know about op, but the recommended laundering instructions are inside out, mild detergent, and cold water. Hang dry or low heat. I tell my customers this. What they do may be something totally different. Some of them tell me normal laundering and drying seems to have no negative effects. The items are worn regularly.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

jean518 said:


> I do not know about op, but the recommended laundering instructions are inside out, mild detergent, and cold water. Hang dry or low heat. I tell my customers this. What they do may be something totally different. Some of them tell me normal laundering and drying seems to have no negative effects. The items are worn regularly.


I'd have to at least dry on medium. Or else the cotton shirts would be all wrinkley and have that wadded up look.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I do dry on medium without issue. If the vinyl is properly applied, there should not be an issue as long as the dryer is functioning correctly. I cannot speak to laundry mat dryers. I was just giving the recommended instructions. Most of my customers use regular heat also.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

jean518 said:


> I do dry on medium without issue. If the vinyl is properly applied, there should not be an issue as long as the dryer is functioning correctly. I cannot speak to laundry mat dryers. I was just giving the recommended instructions. Most of my customers use regular heat also.


I'd like to dry on high heat as that gets the cotton shirts dry and wrinkle free. Sometimes on medium, I have to dry it again.

Last time I dried some shirts on high heat. I checked them with my infrared temp gun, and they were at 170* F. Not sure if that is too hot for vinyl.

I did look for poly/cotton shirts. Something around 50/50, but looks like the shirt companies don't make many of those. I did find Anvil has one shirt like that, but it is around $10 for the blank which is triple the price of their 100% cotton shirts.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I guess the only way to find out is to do a test. Most vinyls apply at 285 F and up. What you MIGHT run into, is pulling of the shirt around the vinyl. Drying on high heat will most likely cause more shrinking of the shirt than drying on regular heat. As to your pricing on 50/50 shirts, what brand, what vendor, wholesale? MOST companies do make a 50/50 version.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

jean518 said:


> I guess the only way to find out is to do a test. Most vinyls apply at 285 F and up. What you MIGHT run into, is pulling of the shirt around the vinyl. Drying on high heat will most likely cause more shrinking of the shirt than drying on regular heat. As to your pricing on 50/50 shirts, what brand, what vendor, wholesale? MOST companies do make a 50/50 version.


I already washed and dried them on high heat to shrink them down before I put the vinyl on them. I buy retail. So the prices I got were what came up searching for the shirt on Google.


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## BURNTtoast (May 28, 2011)

Hey guys,

Sorry been real busy. I did do a wash test and I found that the easyweed stretch separated from the tee in some areas. The chemica hotmark shriveled up quite a bit and looks unpleasing. Although the Joto and the Thermoflex came out great! 

And I used pretty harsh settings on my washer/dryer too.

If your blade is set properly and you use the right force and speed, you too should be able to achieve the cuts I got. I was able to cut that fine of detail with all of the vinyls I tested no problem.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

BURNTtoast said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Sorry been real busy. I did do a wash test and I found that the easyweed stretch separated from the tee in some areas. The chemica hotmark shriveled up quite a bit and looks unpleasing. Although the Joto and the Thermoflex came out great!
> 
> ...


Well, that's good since I've got a bunch of Joto Multicut Ultra. Do you plan on trying the regular Easyweed? I know that is what Ryonet sells under their own label.

What cutter do you have? I've got the GCC Expert 24. One problem I have with it when cutting small things, is sometimes it doesn't cut 100%. I think that is because it doesn't have an overcut feature. So things will want to lift up when weeding sometimes, and there isn't much that can be done when you have small objects.


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## BURNTtoast (May 28, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> Well, that's good since I've got a bunch of Joto Multicut Ultra. Do you plan on trying the regular Easyweed? I know that is what Ryonet sells under their own label.
> 
> What cutter do you have? I've got the GCC Expert 24. One problem I have with it when cutting small things, is sometimes it doesn't cut 100%. I think that is because it doesn't have an overcut feature. So things will want to lift up when weeding sometimes, and there isn't much that can be done when you have small objects.


Hey Jason,

I do have the expert 24, you shouldn't have to do a second pass if your blade is dialed in. You might be using too light of force. I have not tried the regular easyweed as I am really only interested in the matte finish vinyls, but I've heard nothing but good things about it. What settings are you running when you cut the joto?


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

BURNTtoast said:


> Hey Jason,
> 
> I do have the expert 24, you shouldn't have to do a second pass if your blade is dialed in. You might be using too light of force. I have not tried the regular easyweed as I am really only interested in the matte finish vinyls, but I've heard nothing but good things about it. What settings are you running when you cut the joto?


I wasn't referring to a 2nd pass. Just that it doesn't sometimes cut all the way because the blade stops at the spot it started at instead of cutting a little further like what the more expensive cutters do. That is called the overcut feature. Instead of cutting an 0 at 360*, the more expensive cutters would cut the 0 at something like 361* to make sure it was all cut out. That's the problem I have on small things as sometimes the letters will start to lift up because it is still connected by a little strand.

I'm using 60 pressure, speed is real low and the blade is half a credit card thickness.

I might could extend the blade some to see if that helps, but it's already extended far enough as you can see the cuts in the backing.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

jasonsmith said:


> I'm using 60 pressure, speed is real low and the blade is half a credit card thickness.
> 
> I might could extend the blade some to see if that helps, but it's already extended far enough as you can see the cuts in the backing.


I cut at 65-67 usually on my Expert24 but the blade is out less than a 1/2 a credit card. Lately it doesn't quite cut through on bottom corners which tells me the blade is getting dull but circles have never been a problem. Maybe just increase your pressure a couple pounds and see if that helps.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

wormil said:


> I cut at 65-67 usually on my Expert24 but the blade is out less than a 1/2 a credit card. Lately it doesn't quite cut through on bottom corners which tells me the blade is getting dull but circles have never been a problem. Maybe just increase your pressure a couple pounds and see if that helps.


I already tried it at higher pressures, but found it seemed to cut better around 60. The weird thing is I can cut a word that has two t's, i.e. "TT". One "T" will weed fine, but the next "T" lifts up. But that is when cutting real small letters. I believe it wouldn't be a problem if it had an overcut feature. I'll probably recommend to GCC if they could offer an overcut feature. I'm sure that could be done in a software update vs. having to change something with the machine.

I had a problem when I first started cutting, as it cut real bad. but found out I had it set on "draft" instead of "fine". But that was because the VLCD doesn't work and I had to go somewhere else to change the setting.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

jasonsmith said:


> I had a problem when I first started cutting, as it cut real bad. but found out I had it set on "draft" instead of "fine". But that was because the VLCD doesn't work and I had to go somewhere else to change the setting.


I don't use VLCD either. I cut at 65 pressure, 30 speed, accuracy: very high. Seems like this is a low speed compared to what others have posted in the past. I bought the cutter lightly used and it quickly paid for itself. When the day comes to upgrade I'll probably go the print/cut route.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

wormil said:


> I don't use VLCD either. I cut at 65 pressure, 30 speed, accuracy: very high. Seems like this is a low speed compared to what others have posted in the past. I bought the cutter lightly used and it quickly paid for itself. When the day comes to upgrade I'll probably go the print/cut route.


Thanks. I didn't even notice the accuracy setting adjustment. It was set on "normal". I'll change it to "very high".


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

You can accommodate for that by using the node tool and manually extending the end point so that it overlaps the start point just a bit. Might need to add a node to that you maintain the line.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

jean518 said:


> You can accommodate for that by using the node tool and manually extending the end point so that it overlaps the start point just a bit. Might need to add a node to that you maintain the line.


Is that in Greatcut?


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I am not familiar with great cut but it might be. Can you do node manipulation in Great Cut?


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

You should also check your cutting strip, it may need replacing.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

wormil said:


> You should also check your cutting strip, it may need replacing.


The unit is brand new.


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## BURNTtoast (May 28, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> I wasn't referring to a 2nd pass. Just that it doesn't sometimes cut all the way because the blade stops at the spot it started at instead of cutting a little further like what the more expensive cutters do. That is called the overcut feature. Instead of cutting an 0 at 360*, the more expensive cutters would cut the 0 at something like 361* to make sure it was all cut out. That's the problem I have on small things as sometimes the letters will start to lift up because it is still connected by a little strand.
> 
> I'm using 60 pressure, speed is real low and the blade is half a credit card thickness.
> 
> I might could extend the blade some to see if that helps, but it's already extended far enough as you can see the cuts in the backing.


Oh I get what you're saying now. Hmm you can try playing with your offset as well but as far your settings, that's exactly what I'm using and my stuff weeds with no problems.

Also, like wormil said have the accuracy set at very high. Hopefully that helps.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

BURNTtoast said:


> Oh I get what you're saying now. Hmm you can try playing with your offset as well but as far your settings, that's exactly what I'm using and my stuff weeds with no problems.
> 
> Also, like wormil said have the accuracy set at very high. Hopefully that helps.


I'll probably play around with the blade depth and see what that does. Though, I'm gonna make a request to GCC to add an overcut feature. Not sure if that is possible, but figure they could add it via a software update or something.

One thing I noticed on this cutter is the edges alot of times aren't smooth. But kinda wavy. I think it does it when cutting a line at an angle. I do have it cut real slow like at 3 or 5 as it isn't as bad compared to running at a speed of say 30. But I guess that is what you get when getting a cheap cutter vs. a $1k+ cutter.


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## BURNTtoast (May 28, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> I'll probably play around with the blade depth and see what that does. Though, I'm gonna make a request to GCC to add an overcut feature. Not sure if that is possible, but figure they could add it via a software update or something.
> 
> One thing I noticed on this cutter is the edges alot of times aren't smooth. But kinda wavy. I think it does it when cutting a line at an angle. I do have it cut real slow like at 3 or 5 as it isn't as bad compared to running at a speed of say 30. But I guess that is what you get when getting a cheap cutter vs. a $1k+ cutter.


I was cutting stuff the other day and I noticed it did two passes on a certain part of the design, I don't know what exactly happened but it was pretty close to cutting through the mylar, and yeah I've also noticed some jagged edges. 30 is pretty slow though, I cut all my stuff around 58-65. I'd say it's a cheap cutter compared to the higher end machines but definitely not cheap in what it's capable of doing, once you get it dialed in you'd be surprised just how accurate and detailed of a cut you can get.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

BURNTtoast said:


> I was cutting stuff the other day and I noticed it did two passes on a certain part of the design, I don't know what exactly happened but it was pretty close to cutting through the mylar, and yeah I've also noticed some jagged edges. 30 is pretty slow though, I cut all my stuff around 58-65. I'd say it's a cheap cutter compared to the higher end machines but definitely not cheap in what it's capable of doing, once you get it dialed in you'd be surprised just how accurate and detailed of a cut you can get.


Actually the speed is 3. The slower you cut, the better it comes out. I've noticed things like squares aren't 100% square but a little off, which I think would be worse the faster you cut. I've also noticed it likes to leave small nicks when the blade first presses into the vinyl each time. Like one corner of a square will have a nick mark in the vinyl.

One problem I noticed is every once in a while. It doesn't cut one of the objects 100% for some reason. It will stop shy of 1/4 an inch from finishing. I have to get out my exacto knife to finish the cut. I don't know why it does that sometimes, but is a pain when I'm weeding and don't notice it and it starts lifting up one of the objects.

They say they are working on adding an overcut feature. Which I think is a must. As the pain in weeding is because there will be a hair line width still attaching pieces together. So when you weed, it wants to lift the design away.

With an overcut feature, it will 100% cut out the design, so less chance of stuff getting lifted up. I usually have to hold down pieces while I'm weeding to keep things from lifting up.


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## BURNTtoast (May 28, 2011)

jasonsmith said:


> Actually the speed is 3. The slower you cut, the better it comes out. I've noticed things like squares aren't 100% square but a little off, which I think would be worse the faster you cut. I've also noticed it likes to leave small nicks when the blade first presses into the vinyl each time. Like one corner of a square will have a nick mark in the vinyl.
> 
> One problem I noticed is every once in a while. It doesn't cut one of the objects 100% for some reason. It will stop shy of 1/4 an inch from finishing. I have to get out my exacto knife to finish the cut. I don't know why it does that sometimes, but is a pain when I'm weeding and don't notice it and it starts lifting up one of the objects.
> 
> ...


Man 1/4" is quite a bit i think something might be wrong with your machine itself. Also interesting how your speed is set at 3, maybe we have ours set at different units or something i don't know beats me. 

If your blade is "skipping" or leaving little nicks every time it cuts into the vinyl, try backing off on the blade downforce. You'll know if you're cutting with too much force if you can feel lines where it cut on the shiny side of the vinyl (the mylar side) pretty much to the point where the blade almost cut completely through. 

That's cool that they're considering an overcut feature, i'm sure that would rid all your problems of objects not being cut completely.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

BURNTtoast said:


> Man 1/4" is quite a bit i think something might be wrong with your machine itself. Also interesting how your speed is set at 3, maybe we have ours set at different units or something i don't know beats me.
> 
> If your blade is "skipping" or leaving little nicks every time it cuts into the vinyl, try backing off on the blade downforce. You'll know if you're cutting with too much force if you can feel lines where it cut on the shiny side of the vinyl (the mylar side) pretty much to the point where the blade almost cut completely through.
> 
> That's cool that they're considering an overcut feature, i'm sure that would rid all your problems of objects not being cut completely.


The blade force is 60. Which is alot less than what others use. I also have the blade really low. I might could try 50 and see what that does. But it seems to leave a little nick mark when it first cuts into the vinyl.

3 is the lowest speed you can set the machine. The slower you cut, the better it will cut. I do cut some really small items, and I think 3 is really too fast for cutting small items.


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