# Epson 9700 vs. Mutoh RJ-900



## ChadAGG (May 14, 2007)

I am looking at these two printers, and was wondering if anyone could give me some pro's and con's on which one to go with. Also any other 44" printer I may be overlooking. Thanks.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

There is so much behind buying a wide format printer and there is not one that is right for everyone. We started with an Epson 9800 and moved over to a Mutoh RJ900. Both have advantages and minuses. 

My personal opinion is there is not the perfect dye sub printer. There have been on-going rumbling of on and off banding issues, etc on the new generation Epsons and the heads seems to be flakey. RJ has horrible paper handling but for those inclined to work on their own printer is much easier to do so. 

If it was my first wide format I would lean to the Epson due to better support, much better paper handling.

If you have not done so the first thing I would start with is what ink are you going to use. That narrows down the printer and who to purchase it from. Typically the higher end inks for wide format range from $100 - 150 with $125 per liter seeming to be the average. 

The most critical thing is ongoing support/warranty. You want to purchase the ink and the printer from the same company. Even at that you want to clearly understand the warranty lenght and who is actually going to service the printer in your specific region. This is critical.

Understand that you instantly void the warranty, from the manufacture, the second you put dye sub ink into the printer. Your warranty work moving forward will be spearheaded by the company you purchased the printer from. If you do not use their ink you have now voided the implied warranty from the company you purchased the printer from. Again, make sure you understand completly what happens if you if the printer fails under "warranty". Really there are three key parts that you need to worry about - print head, dampers, cap/pump station. These are not cheap nor is the labor to replace. When a head goes they like to replace the dampers at the same time and you are looking close to $2,000.

Regardless of what is stated and what the laws are - real world is the manufacture WILL void the warranty using dye sub ink and your printer distributor WILL void the warranty if you do not use their ink. You tell them to prove the ink caused the damage as some will say is law and they will laugh at you. 

This is why you need to make sure about the ink you want to use. Get samples from several ink vendors and compare colors. Unless you have seen incredible colors you may not even realize you are looking at sub par colors from another vendor. Happens all the time. 

Once you have the ink nailed down find a dealer that will sell you the printer. Most carry both the Epson and the RJ900. 

For most people - this is a big step and you need to do your homework to avoid a disaster.

If you would like to discuss in more detail you can contact me at 888.442.8958.

Welcome to wide format - the fun is about to begin for you.


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## MrRudeDog (Aug 24, 2010)

This looks VERY interesting for folks considering going in to the wide format dye sub market. I am told that the Epson dye sub ink will retail for about $125 per liter.

Check out the link to the product pdf:

[media]http://www.epson.com/_alfresco/proimaging/products/SureColorFSeries/Epson%20SureColor%20F-Series%20Preview%20v1.pdf[/media]

Ray


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t209468.html


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

MrRudeDog said:


> This looks VERY interesting for folks considering going in to the wide format dye sub market. I am told that the Epson dye sub ink will retail for about $125 per liter.
> 
> Check out the link to the product pdf:
> 
> ...


It seems far from ready for prime time. I was in big hopes it really would be everything it claims to be and it may be - just seems it is not there yet.

Many thanks to Marcello who saw the printer at the show and emailed some pics of the print out - they were horrible. Significant banding and by all indication from the PC screen it was at 700 x 700. That is just not right.

Furthermore two other contacts pointed out to me if this was truly designed for 4 color dye sub why is their 5 ink bays like their other wide format printers. You can see this is the slide show you provided.

Speed is great but far from the most critical apsect of wide format which are colors. If you cannot separate yourself from the run of the mill hack shops with brilliant colors the printer/ink is useless. 

I still have great hopes that this will solve many of the pitfalls of wide format.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

As detailed in the other thread, after discussions with Epson, I feel that they rushed the printers to the show, however, they were willing to take that chance. They certainly had a lot of people coming over to take a look and people interested in buying at the show.

I believe that they still have a fair amount of "real world, production testing" to do before the printers are released to the public. My guess is that the first machines won't be hitting production floors until late-May. Again, just a guess.

As far as this thread itself, I have an RJ-900 and can only speak to it. I've been very happy with mine with exception to the paper feed in how it drops straight down out of the front of the printer, instead of out at an angle (i.e. Epson, Mimaki, Roland).


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

Anyone got a epson 1100 for sale?


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## priusjames (Apr 27, 2013)

Riderz Ready said:


> The most critical thing is ongoing support/warranty. You want to purchase the ink and the printer from the same company. Even at that you want to clearly understand the warranty lenght and who is actually going to service the printer in your specific region. This is critical.
> 
> Understand that you instantly void the warranty, from the manufacture, the second you put dye sub ink into the printer. Your warranty work moving forward will be spearheaded by the company you purchased the printer from. If you do not use their ink you have now voided the implied warranty from the company you purchased the printer from. Again, make sure you understand completly what happens if you if the printer fails under "warranty". Really there are three key parts that you need to worry about - print head, dampers, cap/pump station. These are not cheap nor is the labor to replace. When a head goes they like to replace the dampers at the same time and you are looking close to $2,000.
> 
> Regardless of what is stated and what the laws are - real world is the manufacture WILL void the warranty using dye sub ink and your printer distributor WILL void the warranty if you do not use their ink. You tell them to prove the ink caused the damage as some will say is law and they will laugh at you.



I'm confused. It makes sense that putting dye sub in sprinter meant for other inks would void the warranty...but isn't the rj 900 designed to be a dye sub printer? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm looking at an rj900 right now.

I found this press release from Motoh calling it a dye sub printer...what am I missing?

Thanks

James

-----------------------------
Mutoh Launches New RJ-900 Dye-Sub Printer
(August 2009) posted on Fri Jul 03, 2009
Integrates Mutoh’s Intelligent Interweaving (I²) technology.


Mutoh has launched its new RJ-900 printer, a 4-color (CYMK) compact unit specifically engineered for dye sublimation. The RJ 900 offers a maximum print width up to 42 inches and print resolutions up to 2880 dpi; top speed is 426 square feet/hour in draft mode (115 in production mode). As with the 1618A, the new RJ 900 integrates Mutoh’s Intelligent Interweaving (I²) technology.
The machine uses Mutoh DS dye-sub inks (220-ml cartridges). High-quality printers can be transferred onto any dye-sub paper and sublimating can be done on a wide variety of fabrics and rigid substrates. “The emergence of new and improved dye-sub technology offers countless new business opportunities,” says Randy Rickert, general manager of Mutoh America. 
Price: $8561; Mutoh DS dye-sub ink is priced at $66.99 per 220ml cartridge. 


MUTOH AMERICA
MUTOH AMERICA INC.

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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Can understand the confusion. First not sure there is such a thing as a printer engineered specifically for dye sublimation. They are all using the same general head. The new Epson being released is also touted as a printer engineered from the ground up for dye sub but if you look at it seems to be much more about marketing than it is about the printer being specific for dye sub. The Epson even has 5 slots with only 4 ink cartridges yet claimed to be specifically designed for CMYK dye sub. 

Realize the info you are reading is 3+ years old when Mutoh sold dye sub ink (Sawgrass relabled). They no longer sell ink nor do they sell the RJ900 direct to customers. They sell through distributors only. 

When you buy a Mutoh Rj900 for dye sub the warranty is going to be handled by the distributor - not Mutoh. Thus if you buy a Mutoh from distributor "A" you better also buy their ink or they will void their warranty and you will have no warranty at all.

With this said unless you are willing to take a chance you need to find a company that sells the ink you want to use, the RJ900 and most important ask detailed questions on how they intend to service the printer if something were to go wrong. Many will send you parts and expect you to install them. Although a Mutoh printer is easier to work on than an Epson it is still a challenge if you are not familar with printers and working on them. 

I can tell you from first hand experience Mutoh will not warranty the printer if you are using dye sub ink or any ink that is not theirs. I can tell you for a fact distributors will not warranty the Mutoh if you are using ink that is not theirs as well.

To me your best bet is to decide on what ink you want to use than find a distributor/dealer that sells the ink and the Mutoh.


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## SubCreate (Aug 30, 2016)

ChadAGG said:


> I am looking at these two printers, and was wondering if anyone could give me some pro's and con's on which one to go with. Also any other 44" printer I may be overlooking. Thanks.



So which one is better? Apparently the 9700 is much faster than the mutoh rj900x. And it can run on cobra.

Thoughts? Anyone know?


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

SubCreate said:


> So which one is better? Apparently the 9700 is much faster than the mutoh rj900x. And it can run on cobra.
> 
> Thoughts? Anyone know?


If the Mutoh is in the mix, then the comparison should really be between the Epson 6200 and the Mutoh. 

If you are in that territory financially, then why bother with the hack job on the 9700. 

Get a pro printer made for sublimation.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

SubCreate said:


> So which one is better? Apparently the 9700 is much faster than the mutoh rj900x. And it can run on cobra.
> 
> Thoughts? Anyone know?


There are pluses and minuses as with everything. The RJ's seem to have become the most popular printer used for dye sub. Used to be that one of the big advantages was easy to replace parts such as a print head. Now with the price of print heads you are better off to toss the printer if it fails and get a new one. Epsons have much better paper handling.

With that I am not sure there is such a thing as a "dye sub" printer. One can slap a name on any printer but technically is there anything really different that makes it specific to dye sub?

On the ink I am not sure if anyone uses Cobra in wide format. Seems to be one of the go to for desktop but in wide format it seems J-tek is the go to ink for many.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Signature Series said:


> There are pluses and minuses as with everything. The RJ's seem to have become the most popular printer used for dye sub. Used to be that one of the big advantages was easy to replace parts such as a print head. Now with the price of print heads you are better off to toss the printer if it fails and get a new one. Epsons have much better paper handling.
> 
> With that I am not sure there is such a thing as a "dye sub" printer. One can slap a name on any printer but technically is there anything really different that makes it specific to dye sub?
> 
> On the ink I am not sure if anyone uses Cobra in wide format. Seems to be one of the go to for desktop but in wide format it seems J-tek is the go to ink for many.


Cobra ink is pricey compared to most large format offerings. Largest size bottle is 32 OZ or 0.945 Liters for $198 each.

I know a few doing 17 and 24 inch carriage size Epson's, could be some doing larger, just I'm not aware of it. Nearly all are desktop users.


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