# shirt embroidery done incorrectly?



## texasjack49 (Aug 4, 2008)

We contract out our embroidery jobs and we now have an issue I would like others to weigh in on. The client wanted his company name embroidered on Oakley shirts. We purchased the shirts and sent the artwork to the embroidery company. The Oakley shirts have the pocket at an angle not horizontal and the client didn't like them because the ones he had done in the past were always horizontal. I have to agree with him because his company name slanted to follow the pocket looks bad at an angle. The embroider said he has been doing this for over 20 years and always follows the pocket, not his fault. also we asked for the lettering to be 3 1/2 to 4 inches wide and it came out barely over 3 inches wide. We have to re-do the shirts and the emb company at first agreed to help with the cost of new shirts but now will only do the embroidery at no charge. We are out over $300.00. We don't do embroidery ourselves but are we expecting too much from the embroider?


----------



## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Can you post a picture?

Are you saying regardless of how the embroidery was done the client would still have rejected the shirts because of the slanted pocket?

I may change my mind after I see a pic, but I would agree with the embroiderer that the embroidery should have been at the same angle as the pocket.

Regarding size, and slant for that matter, why aren't you getting sew-outs for approval before production starts?


----------



## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

You should have received a sewout for approval and that would have addressed the size of the embroidery.
We go with the slant of the pocket if the pocket is off a little. If it is an out of the ordinary slant we would contact the customer and discuss the options. We never go with the rule of "we have always sewn it this way" because there are always exceptions to the rule.


----------



## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I forgot to add that you should have been aware of the possible problems in logo placement. You had the sample shirt or at least a picture of the ****. If you wanted a specific location you should have discussed this with the embroiderer ahead of time. If they are willing to emborider, at no charge, then take the deal.


----------



## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

Firstly, I am not defending the embroiderer in this case in any way.

But, it appears that there has been a communication error somewhere in the process from both parties. The original instructions given to the embroiderer may not have been explicit enough as to location, size etc. Was a sample of a previous job provided, that can be a great help. The embroiderer hasn't confirmed location and orientation of design.

We (embroiderers) are not mind readers, although some customers think we are judging by the instructions they provide at the start of a job.
I have to ask so many questions at times, that some customers get upset and accuse me of not knowing my job.

You ask a customer "Where do you want the design placed?"
Response "Wherever you think is good."
That doesn't help me. Little things like, do you want it on the right or left side? Response "What is the usual place?"
I then tell them it is personal preference.
I then have to pry the information out with more questions to finally get the location, you would think it was a state secret in some cases. 
Then go through this process again, sometimes, to get thread colors. 

I had a job about 5 years ago for 70 shirts, we were just doing the embroidery, job came through a third party.

I did the design and emailed sample for approval. Received reply that all was good and to proceed.
I did the job and sent it off. Was paid by the third party, all was good.
A couple of days later, was informed customer had rejected the order.
Turns out, the word "Environment" was spelt "Enviroment" and no one had picked it up until now.

Initially they wanted me to foot the bill for the lot, I told them I had the approval and it was not my problem, however I was prepared to redo the embroidery for nothing, but not pay for new shirts.

They agreed with me doing the embroidery for nothing and the third party pay for the shirts.

I only did the second lot for free, as I had billed out and been paid for the first lot 

If I didn't have the approval, I would have been up for the lot.

Take the offer of free embroidery and eat the loss and put it down to a learning experience. Just lucky it has cost a couple of hundred and not a couple of thousand.

If there is no approval, then the embroiderer could be up for the lot.


----------



## HHRSEGT (Nov 15, 2009)

We have a great relationship with the company that does our embroidery. we will take shirts and jackets without problems. I have to make sure all info regarding the job is written out exactly as i need. They even provide me with the forms that they use as job order. This way I fill in all the info as its needed and I get exactly as I need. This took several months of having small issues before we found out what was going to work for both of us. They also have a policy that they do not guarantee that any item they don't supply will be perfect due to mechanical errors. Sometimes needles jump or break or hoop gets loose,etc.. If they supply the merchandise then they will eat the costs and deliver exactly the quantity ordered. when I deliver my own shirts I order extras just in case of errors. They only stitch the quantity and i get the extras back. My embroiderer is very local to my shop so we have a great working relationship. If you can develope a relationship with a local embroiderer you may find that when things go bad they will work with you more than using several other companies or the cheapest. Most times they only do what they have been asked or do what they have done before because not all the questions had been asked. it took awhile to learn how everything needs to be to get my jobs perfect.


----------



## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

If the pockets are intentionally placed at an angle and this is a change for this customer I would have discussed that detail with my customer and commented on whether I thought their logo would work on those pockets. Then it would be up to them to approve the shirt style. 

As the contract embroiderer I would have contacted you to make sure the logo placement was correct (to double check) but if it was was clear thats what you wanted then I would go with it because its not up to me to make an artistic judgement. 

If the text was incorrectly sized then its the embroiderer's fault. If there was a reason why the text couldn't be sized as you wanted then the embroiderer should have contacted you to discuss your options.


----------



## thestitchwitch (Apr 2, 2010)

As an embroiderer---I would like to comment.

**I am not defending this embroiderer. I feel there was a lack of clear and concise communication here.

Placement should've been discussed at LENGTH. Especially with a shirt with a not common pocket type.
There ARE industry standards for placement--in most situations. Anything out of the norm, should be discussed, agreed upon, AND a SIGNATURE (or something equal to, if using email, etc.)

I have a waiver for customers supplying their own items. (1- to save myself if technical difficulties arise and an item is ruined or doesn't look as the customer had hoped. 2- because I would rather supply the items, that's where I make the money).

I also have a format Work Sheet where I describe, and even illustrate placement, sizing, wording, etc. This is also approved---BEFORE I START WORK.

This all may seem like a lot of redundancy, but when you lose a batch of 70 (or more) shirts because of misspelling (even tho that's how the customer SAID it was spelled) or because of placement, you learn to CYA. These signed agreements CMA. There is also a disclosure about customer provided items--they MUST supply 10% in excess of the actual required number of items, IN CASE. (They get them back if I dont need them.) Again, CYA.

Customers that aren't familiar with the world of embroidery ask a LOT of questions. Or, they say "whatever you think". They're unsure of exactly what they want, and yes, sometimes they expect us to read their minds. They think we just wave a wand and **POOF** the magic happens.

I have actually told customers when placement wasn't feasible, or wasn't aesthetically pleasing, or if something they wanted JUST WOULDN'T WORK. 

It just seems as if the job wasn't thoroughly discussed and agreed upon. If the embroiderer is offering free embroidery---take it. That's still quite a loss for them---in time and effort.

FYIW
YMMV

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## texasjack49 (Aug 4, 2008)

splathead said:


> Can you post a picture?
> 
> Are you saying regardless of how the embroidery was done the client would still have rejected the shirts because of the slanted pocket?
> 
> ...


Sorry for not replying sooner, been out of town and busy. It was my wife's order and to clarify, the client wanted the Okley shirts with the slanted pocket. He had another company do the shirts before and they all had slanted pockets but the text was always horizontal. The embroiderer does do a stitch out but it is and electronic version that was e mailed to my wife. It showed how the text would look but and it was horizontal but it did not show the pocket so it never occured to her that they planned to run the lettering parallel to the pocket and not horizontal. Since she had specified that the text should be 3 1/2 to 4 inched wide she also didn't think it would come out 3 inches wide. The company we use is about 35 miles from us so we have done most things by e mail until we pick up the shirts. It's not about who is to blame, the question is would most embroiderers run the text horizontal or follow the pocket. Their employee said that he has been doing this for 20 years and always follows the pocket angle. Exact instructions may have made no difference but my wife did not specify horizontal because the digital stitch out was horizontal.


----------



## nvstitch (Apr 16, 2010)

As a custom embroidery screen print shop I will not make a decison with customer supplied goods, I only do what Im told. I would think you would not want a 3rd party making decisions for your customer. Another reason to have every job description in writing.


----------



## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

texasjack49 said:


> It's not about who is to blame, the question is would most embroiderers run the text horizontal or follow the pocket.


If we were not given specific instructions to the contrary, we would follow the pocket.

However, if the pocket is manufactured off horizontal, as in this case, we would ask if they want us to follow pocket (just to be safe).

If they reply, whatever you think is best, we would follow pocket.


----------



## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

If the pocket placement is standard I would follow the pocket. If its not standard I would ask for specific instructions. If I was told to do whatever I think is best by the contractor I would strongly suggest that they go back to their customer to get a definitive answer. If it was my customer I would show/explain the difference between the two options so they can make an informed decision. This seems to be an exception where following industry standards (following the pocket) isn't necessarily the best decision.


----------



## HHRSEGT (Nov 15, 2009)

I have found with other embroiderers that some only do the labor and have zero artistic ability. They bought a machine learned how to use it and can only do what the computer gives them. They give answers that are generic. " with the pocket is the norm" If you ask what colors look good for a design they reply with " whatever you like". I was looking for someone who could give me some advice on the work that I was needing, someone with enough experience in the business. I finally found them, even though we had to work thru a few difficult things. I expect a high quality to my work, I also expect a high quality from my sub work. If they can't provide the quality I like I will find someone else.


----------



## texasjack49 (Aug 4, 2008)

HHRSEGT said:


> I have found with other embroiderers that some only do the labor and have zero artistic ability. They bought a machine learned how to use it and can only do what the computer gives them. They give answers that are generic. " with the pocket is the norm" If you ask what colors look good for a design they reply with " whatever you like". I was looking for someone who could give me some advice on the work that I was needing, someone with enough experience in the business. I finally found them, even though we had to work thru a few difficult things. I expect a high quality to my work, I also expect a high quality from my sub work. If they can't provide the quality I like I will find someone else.


It was never an issue of quality, the stitching was fine. My wife approved a stitch out that was horizontal and received shirts with the text at an angle to match the pocket. I think my wife could have been more specific but it is difficult to be specific about something when you never saw it coming. We are not embroiderers but everything we have had done on a left chest has come out horizontal so i was just curious as to what is norm when it comes to this. I think the embroider should have asked if he wasn't sure but according to him he ALWAYS follows the pocket. I'm not sure he would have looked at any special instructions. When we drop things off there we only get to talk to the manager not the machine operator.


----------



## sukie64 (Sep 16, 2008)

I as an embroiderer would have asked how the lettering was to be done. If I noticed that the pocket was at an angle, unless it was a slight angle, which could have happened. With out a photo of the item it is hard to say. But if the pocket was a steep angle, I would have questioned the placement of the stitching. That being said, you mention that you only speak to the manager, not the machine operator, the machine operator probably goes by what is on the order, meaning if the order says to put the name over the pocket, you would follow the line of the pocket. It really does seem like a lack of communication on both party's fault. 
You as the customer, should have mentioned that the pocket is at an angle, do not follow the pocket line, and the embroiderer manager, should have seen that the pocket was at an angle and asked you how you wanted the placement. There really isn't anyone to blame in this situation, chuck it up to experience, and make sure to give clear instructions from now.


----------

