# Is JET DARK right for me?



## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Is JET DARK [the opaque version of JetPro sofstretch by Neenah] a good opaque transfer for me?

I currently am using the JetPro sofstretch.. and am still very new and just trying to figure out the best I can use. Would you guys suggest I use JetDark for my opaque transfers?

thanks guys.


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi. Im using jetdark(hot peel) . I order 200 sheets of it :/. I just started this printing n testing it for last 2 weeks. The result was bad . Mine Jet Dark , is suitable for t-shirt black colour only. The problem is , if you didn't cut it properly , the result will be bad because you could see the white colour of the paper. I have a bit problem with it. I was thinking to get a plotter/cutter for it. It would be a problem if you u want do only lettering or numbers on the shirt. Unless you just want to print boxes or polygon shape which are much easier to trim by scissor . 

I couldn't afford to get a plotter/cutter . It would cost me more for a CAD-Cutter Roland GX-24 USD 1906.00 per unit . Is there any way ? get cutter ? cheaper cutter ? plotter ? or technique without buying these stuff.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Hi Doug,

I don't really have too much of a problem with JetDark for smaller designs, but I wouldn't use it for large prints.

I need to finish my experiments with IronAll Dark to see if that will be any better, but if I can't cut it properly on our plotter I won't use any dark transfers.

If you have simple designs, IronAll Dark is supposed to me MUCH better than any other inkjet paper out there.

aizzat: Another option you might want to look at for a less expensive plotter is the Graphtec CE5000-40 CraftROBO Pro. It's a smaller plotter, but will cut any transfer paper and is a professional machine. It accepts media up to 19" wide and cuts up to about 15" wide (40cm). It also has an automatic registration mark sensor for contour cutting inkjet transfers. 

We have the CR Pro's big brother, the Graphtec CE5000-60, and we LOVE it!


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

Chani: thank you for the quick reply . I totally didn't expected that .  impressive. The Graphtec CE5000-40 CraftROBO Pro and CAD-Cutter Roland GX-24 not much different (the price too) . Only Roland are much well known. My sheet size are A4 for now. I was doing a survey which plotter/cutter should i get . But do i need get this huge cutter machine ? because im cutting the A4 size JetDark Sheet.

I heard there is Roland stika and Craft ROBO CC200-20 for small . In future , i might used the Garment Film instead of jetDark and jetwhite. What do you think about that ? Just get the Graphtec CE5000-60 ?

Sorry my english not that good. thank you for helping me . I just started doing these for few days already. (newbie) thank you again~


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

If you're planning on doing apparel vinyl, too, I suggest getting at least the CraftROBO Pro. If you think you might like to get into making signs, get a 24" plotter like the Roland GX-24 or Graphtec CE5000-60.

If you only plan on making t-shirt transfers, get the CraftROBO Pro. 

I don't suggest getting the Graphtec CraftROBO (not Pro) CC200-20 or the Roland Stika models. Those are built as hobby machines, and they really aren't set up to be professional machines. Also, with the Graphtec CC200-20, it has a strange blade system and also if you want to cut scraps you need to use a backer sheet.

The CraftROBO Pro IS a professional model, has better motors, and can cut t-shirt transfers and scraps down to 2.5 inches wide. 

If we start selling a lot of transfer I'll be getting a CraftROBO Pro, too.

Your English is just fine!


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, I ordered my CraftRobo Pro yesterday which is a given that you must have a plotter while using opaque transfers.

Chani, you said to not use the JetDark for 'large prints'. I have some questions on that.

1. What constitutes as a "large" print?
2. Why not use it for large prints?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I've used it on 4x4 prints and it was acceptable, but if you use it for a full-front design, it will be very heavy and thick on your shirt and your shirt won't move properly when you move. I don't have any specific measurements, but I just wouldn't go very large with them.

The more complex your design (lots of material cut out of it) will do better than large rectangles, tho.

I still need to finish my tests (I've been working on other things lately), but IronAll Dark might be a better option for you for larger designs. I just need to get our plotter to cut it properly and I need to see if Magic Mask will work with it.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Where can I look to shop for the Iron-All Dark?

And where is the cheapest place to get some Magic Mask?


 thanks again Chani. You're my 24/7 tshirtforums hero


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

LOL! 

IronAll Dark is available at New Milford Photo.

Magic Mask is available either at Stahls (it's their brand) or Beacon Graphics.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Holy cow. These Iron-All Dark certainly come with their price. Twice the price of other transfers!!
I take it there are no equals? Brands as good?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Yeah, it's not the cheapest paper. Not everyone likes even IronAll Dark, but it's the best overall opaque inkjet paper out there right now.

Now I just need to get it to work with my plotter...


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Oh, it's not working for your plotter? You have the big brother to the CraftRobo Pro, and I am getting the CraftRobo Pro.. So it probably wont work for mine either. What seems to be the issue with it?

Also, I cannot figure out how to shop Stahl's webstore!


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

It's an issue of the stretchiness of this paper.

I just need to find its sweet spot so that it cuts it without pulling the transfer itself.

Here's a thread I started on this test so you can see the issues I've been having:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t38395.html

You need a Stahls account to be able to shop there, so I'd suggest just getting it from Beacon. It's the same price if I remember correctly.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

why not use vinyl I thought that vinyl will look and feel good on darks just asking I am looking at vinyl cutter so any infore would be nice


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Vinyl is great, but if you have a very complex design or any gradients, you will need to use another method.

Mark has done 9-color designs with vinyl, so it's doable, but you wouldn't make a profit off of it because no one would pay what it's worth.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, vinyl doesnt help with my designs as most of them are not one-3 color logos or anything.. They are multicolor with gradients...

I dont know if this Iron-all Dark is going to work well for me considering the guy who answers all of my Qs on the tshirt forums is having problems with it himself. 

What would you say are generally the top 3 or 4 DARK transfer papers?

I know you like Iron-all Dark, so what are the other top 3 in your discoveries on the forum?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

The only other opaque transfers I've had experience with are JetDark adn Avery. STAY AWAY from Avery.

Sorry I can't help you more.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

Chani.. When I said "guy" I meant girl... I didnt know you were a girl. My bad!


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

LOL!

It's okay.  I was wondering who you were talking about.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

I guess the FEMALE symbol, and the PINK on your avatar still didnt click in my head. I thought it was just a guy who liked chicks and pink


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

You're not the first one to miss it. 

The only reason I'm using that as my avatar is because it works great for my intials, CL


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

AdamnSmith said:


> I dont know if this Iron-all Dark is going to work well for me.


Doug,

I know you already are aware that JetDark is not Jetpro Sofstretch for darks. I hope this will clarify this for any other readers of this thread in the future, just so there is no confusion. At this time, there is no Jetpro for dark fabrics. I anticipate the testing when it arrives, to see if it will outperform Ironall Dark.

At this time, Ironall dark is highly recommended for darks. I use it, I love it. Do not overcook it, and you will be fine. Too hot, too long, it becomes a bit translucent. The only real way to answer this question for yourself is to do the testing. It's invaluable for finding out what you like and don't like about products.

A bit on Ironall Dark: Do you know who Badalou is yet? Lou? He probably has the most experience working with heat transfers on the forum. I can't recall anyone I've met with questions that doesn't defer to Lou. Lou recommends Ironall Dark for darks. That is why I use it. 

Some folks have other preferences, true, but I trusted Lou, and I am very happy with Ironall Dark. If/when JP for darks comes on the scene, I imagine JP will have less hand. That is the only improvement I could see over Ironall dark, and ID's hand - as is - is not offensive. Considering the alternatives for darks: screening, vinyl, or plastisol, I would say Ironall dark is the best inkjet out there.

I believe Lou does not use Ironall dark commercially. He uses other methods, I've read his posts saying heat press and plastisols. He does use Ironall dark on his totes commercially. I'm going from memory here, so if I get anything wrong, I apologize to Lou in advance, and feel free to please fix up my post. 

But if memory serves me, this is the info I've gathered along the way.

I use Ironall dark commercially with great feedback. My market is youth. It may or may not be appropriate for all markets.

New Milford Paper offers both JP and ID. When I need stock, I check to see if having the singular shipping charge saves me any money. As you can tell from my post, I really like Ironall dark. 

I try to stick to rectangular designs for easy trimming with my rotary trimmer. If not, I use the rotary trimmer to bring the bulk down, and finish the trim with a scissor. It's not bad, for me.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

To do a dark transfer what do you think your total cost is per sheet ?
I don't mean ganging several on one sheet I am talking a complex design that you really thought would have been totally awesome on a dark shirt.
Paper, ink , time trimming (whether by hand or using plotter ) and if by plotter cost of backing if needed. 

I have only used a couple of dark transfer papers. While not bad , not great.
Nothing that made me jump for joy. And frankly all the trimming gives me carpal tunnel . Now I am getting the robo craft to help. I don't do many yet so don't need the expensive PRO yet and I have a 24" cutter already but no ARMS on that one so this robo will be mostly for contour cutting I hope.

Mark
Semper Fi


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

That would be hard to say, and I think would vary by piece because of how much it cost to buy the Ironall dk that's being used, and how intricate the design is. I could see alot of trimming eating up valuable time, and time is money.

I've gotten all my Ironall dk on sale one way or another, either by free shipping or coupon codes from NMP.

For me, my cost is not much over that of light transfers, mostly, because my market is youth, girl mainly. Any design placed on a hot pink, pink, purple, or lipstick red box will make them happy. I have managed to stick with boxes or rectangles b/c while most men won't agree, girls are easy to please. 

Using boxes and rectangles, and getting good discounts or free shipping, my costs for using Ironall dark is not much more. I use a rotary trimmer that just slices the excess off in a second or less per side. I make a very tiny tear into the vinyl and release paper, since the Ironall stretches, it doesn't rip, just the release paper does, so that quick, and pressing is faster than lights. I mark up the colors higher in price, so my costs are offset and profit is not lost. I offer white and colors, and they'll pay for what they want. 

As far as using Ironall dark, I have great experiences with it, I do like it very much, and haven't had any complaints. My own shirts and sweatshirts are a few months old, I wash in warm and dry in hot, and there's nothing to notice about them. They look just like the other sweatshirts from Disney, etc, except they aren't screened.

Hope this helps.


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

Girlzndollz ,
rotary trimmer ? can show me a pics of it ? can u cut circle ? ;/ Right now , i dont think i can afford to get Roland GX-24. My budjet for now is , roland stika SV-8 . it is quite hard for me . If it is rectangular or square , it is much easier to cut  Well im trying to test martket right now , i think scissor will might do it . it just depend on what design did u do right ?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Sure, the second shot is of it upside down, and of the blade. No circles, just straight lines, has a razor sharp blade. PS: Those are little bits of paper on the blade, I trimmed sticker sheets recently. A q-tip wipes it right off.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Girlz,
So what would you estimate your cost for doing a dark transfer at ? 
$1 ? $3 $5 ?

I haven't done enough to get an idea of mine yet. Been using samples I have gotten so far. Was looking to order IronAll for Darks but after ISS I might go another way but trying to get an idea on cost per sheet. (non ganged)
I figure the trimming would be the biggest cost.

Thanks
Mark


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I'll send you a pm.


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## AdamnSmith (Dec 10, 2007)

The IRON-ALL DARK is not cuttable using the CraftRobo pro though according to Chani right?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Not exactly.

It WILL be cuttable...I just need to find the right settings for my machine.

There's a post in my test thread giving settings that worked on a Roland GX-24 for someone, but those settings didn't work for me. I'm not sure why.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

After looking at it, I would have to say about $4.25, without the ink. I am in youth, and the shirts are probably cheaper.

I subtract ink costs off the bottom line at the end of the month. I haven't done the per shirt calculations. I also user my printer for printing photos, forgot about the until now. I always planned to figure per shirt ink costs, but won't bother now.


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

(After 1st washing , the colour wash out)


Im using
HIX 600D (heatpress machine)
Printer HP Officejet Pro K5400
Paper: JetDark

During the printing , im using the best quality to print on the JetDark paper on 100% cotton t shirt ..
After it print , it looks perfectly just fine n great. I leave it more than 24 hours before i wash it. I wash it with normal water , not HOT too.

Mostly on the forum, i read plenty of the user on these forum are using Epson and Pigmented inks. I didnt know about the pigmented inks. 

I did contact with the HP technical center , the HP dude told me that i need use the normal or draft printing, because it use less color and the ink wont be think so it wont spoil the colour during u wash it later.

The first marketing dude saying this to me "Aizzat, Yes you will be able to print media paper to do heat press on t-shirt, to check the cartridge specification please click on the weblink given below."

After sum times i give them a call and they send me an email about heat transfer documentation on HP .

HP Officejet K5400 Printer Series - Product Specifications [c00846260]
HP Iron-on Transfers summary - HP products
Print your own iron-on transfers

in the product specification it mention "..Up to 1200 dpi with pigmented black ink" so HP ink vivera black is pigmented ?. But HP do provide a transpaper paper which is a bit expensive i guesss. So i assume it will work with other transpaper too. 

Could anyone give me information regarding my problem. Im totally lost and confused 

Im kinda new to these tshirt printing. *sorry about my english , im not really good at it*

thank you


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Hi Aizzat,

I just looked up your printer, and it uses dye inks for your color cartidges and pigment for your black ink only (why do they do that?!?).

So that's the first issue with your fading.

Next would be laying down too much ink on the best setting. If you back that off a little it would be best. 

Don't get sucked into HP transfer paper. It's just not professional grade, and it's more expensive. You'll just end up wasting your money. 

I wish I had some good news for you.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't know if this helps, but the good news is Aizzat's learning how to improve his work for the better. Silver lining?

I started heat transfers with Canon dye based ink. It wasn't too bad, it did fade, but not worse or faster than Ironall. At the time I was using Avery paper, so maybe the plasticky hand was helping me out. I didn't like the eventual fade or cracking, ended up here looking how to improve my process. I ended up using "nothing" I started out with. At all. Good thing all around. Again, 'thank you t-shirtforums folks.'

Aizzat, ink sits on top of the paper, so too much is an unnecessary waste and overkill. So are too many color cartridges, they only add to ink expenses. When you go to choose a pigment ink printer (or other type of printer, laser, sub dye, whatever you go with) keep in mind that you only need the four colors to do heat transfer well. Since it's not going onto photo paper, the 6 & 8 colors are lost on the substrate anyway. So for us, less is better/cheaper.

Make sure you check your printer inks out before you buy to be sure what it is running in it.

Pigment ink is water resistant. Pigment ink is more like little gel drops. Dye ink is water based. That is why some nozzle heads on dye printers can clog when trying to use pigment ink in them. Sometimes it works, but if it doesn't, this might be a reason why it's failing.

If you print alot and want to lower ink costs, try to find a printer that can take a bulk ink system or continuous ink system. It is much cheaper to run volume of prints like that. 

Alot of times the tech guys don't know the answer for heat transfers, even if they say they do. I had that problem at Epson, but at least he told me he didn't know. 

Paper for lights - if you are sticking with inkjet - I would say is Jetprosofstretch and for dark is Ironall darks.

Best wishes, I hope all works out.


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

i will test on few more on draft/normal mode. Then i will decide to switch on new printer which are 100% pigmented. thanks everyone . ur info are very useful to me and others HP user.


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## tsko2k (Feb 2, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Paper for lights - if you are sticking with inkjet - I would say is Jetprosofstretch and for dark is Ironall darks.


Ironall dark would be the best choice available. i got it. But how about quality? How well can it keep colors vibrant?
I have watched Lou's video about the paper and he said color stayed well. But i also have read some post in this forum saying that IronAll for dark could not keep color well.

I'm going to use the paper for dark (blue and black) tshirts that are going to be washed of course. Is there a good way to keep colors vibrant with IronAll dark, such as printer settings? I use Epson printer.

If anyone have images comparing dark tshirts before and after washed, it would be great help.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

tsko2k said:


> Ironall dark would be the best choice available. i got it. But how about quality? How well can it keep colors vibrant?
> I have watched Lou's video about the paper and he said color stayed well. But i also have read some post in this forum saying that IronAll for dark could not keep color well.
> 
> I'm going to use the paper for dark (blue and black) tshirts that are going to be washed of course. Is there a good way to keep colors vibrant with IronAll dark, such as printer settings? I use Epson printer.
> ...


First thanks for watching my videos.. don't for get to send me your dollar.. and that goes for the other 140,000 as well.. I wish.. any way. I have washed several shirts that I did with the iron all for darks and the color is holding up Slight loss but not bad..


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

tsko2k said:


> Ironall dark would be the best choice available. i got it. But how about quality? How well can it keep colors vibrant?
> I have watched Lou's video about the paper and he said color stayed well. But i also have read some post in this forum saying that IronAll for dark could not keep color well.
> 
> I'm going to use the paper for dark (blue and black) tshirts that are going to be washed of course. Is there a good way to keep colors vibrant with IronAll dark, such as printer settings? I use Epson printer.
> ...


 
Ironall Dark has great quality, my market it youth, so you have to make sure you like it for your shirts first, but for me, it is great.

No cracking, great color retention. Washing in cold helps.

Ironall dark is on sale 29% off at New Milford Photo for one day, until 2/29. Here's a link to the thread with the info:http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t41299.html#post244245


Just use regular settings. Plain paper and text/photo mode. No need to go best quality.

Just watch your dwell time. On black I had to be extra careful not to overcook it or it became a bit translucent.


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

After wash less than 24 hours. Ow yah , i get the correct ink and printer! i print it with normal mode not the best quality . The colour didnt wash out!! w00t OMG! thank you all! i'll be start pressing soon. (hi5) everyone. love u all!! 

*you can compare these image with your windows XP default picture on sample picture.
Documents\My Pictures\Sample Pictures


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Looks, great, Aizzat. Now you just need a rotary trimmer. Seriously, if you do alot of boxes and you don't have one, it makes a perfectly straight edge, and in a fraction of a second per side.

This is Jet Dark, right? If you would, please let me know how it goes down the line with the cracking. The one thing I love about Ironall Dark is that is stretches with the shirt instead of cracking. I think you shirt looks great now. Sometimes, it's after the washing and drying that they begin to crack and have failures. 

I am curious how this one does over a bit of time. Are you going to keep running a longer test on it? If you are, as you can see, I would really like to get your opinion on how it does over time. Thanks.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

tsko2k said:


> Ironall dark would be the best choice available. i got it. But how about quality? How well can it keep colors vibrant?
> I have watched Lou's video about the paper and he said color stayed well. But i also have read some post in this forum saying that IronAll for dark could not keep color well.
> 
> I'm going to use the paper for dark (blue and black) tshirts that are going to be washed of course. Is there a good way to keep colors vibrant with IronAll dark, such as printer settings? I use Epson printer.
> ...


Hi Tai, 

Are you sure you didn't read about regular IronAll (light)? IronAll for lights has a bad reputation of fading, and I experienced it, too. But I don't remember anyone saying anything about IronAll Dark if using the proper inks. I could've missed it, but I haven't actually seen anything about IronAll Dark fading. 

I still have yet to use it, tho, because I want to get it to work with my plotter first, which I haven't been able to work on for a while now.

Gotta get back to that. Not today, tho. I'm sick.


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## aizzat (Jan 24, 2008)

Girlzndollz : i did try the 2nd wash and stretch the material. No Cracking founds. The paper are good as the first printed :]= . Thanks. Im gonna get that rotary trimer then :> Yeah , im using JetDark. That what it wrote at the instructed manual paper .


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Good, thanks for the posts. Best regards.


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