# Kornit Better watch out, a New machine coming



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

aeoon Products

Video: Can it really print 400 shirts per hour?*|*Direct To Garment E-Zine

Now this thing is amazing


----------



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

What a statement. Sean
Kornit and Aeoon is two different animal. Price and speed and concept and heads and technology. I saw both printer and touched (not many are). I have price list on Aeoon in my hand and it did not updated last couple month. When Brother introduce 782 some people said same but they all seems doing well. MHM was greatest screen printing machine ever but M&R is the name of the industry. I do not foresee anyone have to watch it. Different level and different clients. Actually watch lists are (if I push it) screen printing machine makers. But I am wondering how many will meet this price tag at this economy. It will not be at SGIA show.


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Different animals yes/no concept pretty close to Kornit, Spectra Heads, on board pretreat ect.
Only other industrial printer I seen lately besides Kornit


----------



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

mrbigjack50 said:


> Different animals yes/no concept pretty close to Kornit, Spectra Heads, on board pretreat ect.
> Only other industrial printer I seen lately besides Kornit


It is only my opinion. Debate is not my favorite thing but if I am in mood I do viciously. Kornit is more like Brother level. Aeoon head is Kyocera printhead. with 2558 nozzles x 6 and up with up to 2400x2400 DPI while Kornit is less than 100 dpi. with much less nozzles (I forgot. hundred some?).
Print area is 70cm x 100cm print (1"=2.54cm). 5-6 Kornit speed will meet one of this by engineers word. Also the price is not joke. That is chunk of changes. Laugh at Kornit price tag.
Spectra head carries less quality and speed than even Richo G4 (Anajet and 2-3 others are working on it) head. Also Spectra has reputation of more on clog issues than Richo & Kyocera.


----------



## bigbang (Mar 21, 2010)

Who else is working on a non Epson based machine and what printheads do they use?
What are the best printheads in your opinion (for waterborne inks)?


----------



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

bigbang said:


> Who else is working on a non Epson based machine and what printheads do they use?
> What are the best printheads in your opinion (for waterborne inks)?


I assume you are asking me a question. Who is working on what is every companies top secret but there are always mouse in the wall and bird in the ceiling. Reveal competitors project here is not a gentleman thing. 
Printhead choice is not everything of dtg. But the first step. Many Epson head choices are out there but output are all different. Same on every each head.
richo, spectra, zarr, Kyocera heads are same thing also. One thing so sure is all are not/never easy. Takes years not months to get mature. Some mfgs will test with your money and your pain, some mfg will take pain them self with patient. Depends on company leaders moral. Sorry I cannot give you a clear answer but all are good heads but who will use how is the question. 
Cheers & Beers!


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Real world user experience I'd say heads on Brother, never an issue in 3 years, have had ink run out in line soooo many times from rolling up ink bladder and a head clean or two fixed it.
Once left alone with no ink in line for 3 days and 2 head cleans brought it back to life.

I only clean it every 3weeks and that takes 2 min and I print sometimes 1000 shirts a week so do the math : )

Epson heads clog and are sooo sensitive, I go them running on a solvent printer and waterbase wide format, slightest temp in change room or humidity and bam problems.
And in 2 sec I will assume someone will prove me wrong which is fine but I do ton of printing so can careless : )


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Sean, I understand you absolutely LOVE the Brother printer. But you should be comparing the Brother 782, not the 541, to the Epson printers with white ink. When you introduce white ink to a system, there are more problems that need dealt with. I've seen some very unhappy customers with the 782's, regardless of their printhead. I've let my machine (Epson based) sit for longer periods of time, do a head clean, shake the white ink and I'm up and running with no issues. I very rarely even do a nozzle test. So the reality is, you are comparing apples to oranges. I know of many people with no white ink in their system, even going back to the original tJet, and they don't have problems that people with white ink do.

It's not been 2 seconds, and I'm not so sure I'm proving your wrong, but it's been 14 hours. I'm just saying....


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

JeridHill said:


> I know of many people with no white ink in their system, even going back to the original tJet, and they don't have problems that people with white ink do.


(Getting on the soap box for 1 minute and this should not be judged against Jerid or anyone else that has replied to this thread - talking in general about what I have seen on trade show exhibit hall floors over the past 2 years). 

This philosophy of a user can always remove the white ink and run a CMYK only setup is one of the biggest complaints I hear about white ink printers being sold at trade shows. Every dtg manufacturer / distributor pushes the need to print with white ink to sell their printer. (Obvious reason is you use a lot more white ink than CMYK and this increases revenues.) I've talked to attendees at almost every show that have more cons to printing white ink than pros. Yet very few sales people really get into asking questions about the prospective company, their business model and the employees that will run the printer. The sales reps just focuses on being able to print on any color shirt and gloss over the negatives that come with this (i.e. maintenance, pretreatment, clogging, additional factors when performing troubleshooting / wash tests,...). The customer gets sold on to dtg printing on all colors of shirts... but when they come to reality that their business model might not support white ink printing for any number of reasons, they might not have made the same decision. This could mean purchasing one specific printer or even not buying any dtg printer.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big proponent of dtg printing (including white ink printing)... but it has to be right for the business model. I hope the near future of dtg printing makes white ink printing easier - everything from pretreating to maintenance. Like any new technology, the sales environment for dtg printers is pretty aggressive on the trade show floors and some of the stuff being said about printers is way more puffery than fact. I think some of the blame needs to be on the buyers not doing their own analysis, but the sales reps need to do the right thing as well and tell some people that it is not in their best interest.

(Okay, I am done. Back to the discussion about print heads.) 

Mark


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I agree, and this is why last week, I sold a Mod1 setup with dual CMYK. It didn't fit their business model....


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Feel you on white ink being issue regardless Jerid, I almost bought a 782 until rethinking all the things I would have to do to maintain machine.
Than there was maintaining pretreater, just to much pita stuff for me as I got 3 other printers to run plus other machines.
In my businesses set up I like to have machines that take care of themselves not me having to babysit it every day. My time is money and I don't got time to waste on playing daddy .

Right now have had a blast with POS Roland that seem to wanna break down on me every 3 weeks because tech who work on it are idiots and machine is garbage.

Having a biz is a blast Ha.


----------



## DTG Printer (Sep 18, 2011)

allamerican said:


> What a statement. Sean
> Kornit and Aeoon is two different animal. Price and speed and concept and heads and technology. I saw both printer and touched (not many are). I have price list on Aeoon in my hand and it did not updated last couple month. When Brother introduce 782 some people said same but they all seems doing well. MHM was greatest screen printing machine ever but M&R is the name of the industry. I do not foresee anyone have to watch it. Different level and different clients. Actually watch lists are (if I push it) screen printing machine makers. But I am wondering how many will meet this price tag at this economy. It will not be at SGIA show.


The fact that the machine will not be at the SGIA show in N.O. speaks volumes as to whether it is ready to be a serious competitor. EVERYBODY with something to say or sell is there. Granted the economy is tough but you need to get the gear on US soil to sell it. We have the most robust DTG market in the world. We lag in other types of industrial digital printing on fabric.


----------



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Shane,
Interest web site you have launched. Lots of luck to you. I will register as soon as I hit USA soil. Haha. 
I have no objection on robust dtg market is USA. However I want to say is USA market is declining than before sharply. Our economy is pretty serious stage than normal people think(u and I). I happen to travel more than average USA citizens and I feel it where ever I embark.
If I can I rather ride uprising market even small now than heading south robust market. USA has to do something now before too late. Dollars is so weak all over in EU/world dtg is cheap in their eyes while most USA dtg buyers are thinking all sellers are over charging. Higher price tag printer will suffer in USA so sure in my eyes. 
ps: In your web site you separate industrial and desk top/ kiosk maybe not a correct information. Wish you will take a look.
If Kornit is industrial Brother 782 also. where is M's belong? 
Desk top = A3 and below.(Epson 1900,1800,2200---). 
A2 (4880-4900-7900 etc. No one call these as desk top except your web site. They are professional image system by Epson Epson - Exceed Your Vision. 
Just open printer you will see the constructed different way. So separate 3 way maybe correct info to public not by 2. I will be frq visitor of your site.
Thank you.


----------



## DTG Printer (Sep 18, 2011)

allamerican said:


> Shane,
> Interest web site you have launched. Lots of luck to you. I will register as soon as I hit USA soil. Haha.
> I have no objection on robust dtg market is USA. However I want to say is USA market is declining than before sharply. Our economy is pretty serious stage than normal people think(u and I). I happen to travel more than average USA citizens and I feel it where ever I embark.
> If I can I rather ride uprising market even small now than heading south robust market. USA has to do something now before too late. Dollars is so weak all over in EU/world dtg is cheap in their eyes while most USA dtg buyers are thinking all sellers are over charging. Higher price tag printer will suffer in USA so sure in my eyes.
> ...


Peter - Desk top DTG machines are anything relatively portable that can be transported by 2 people in an SUV! You know what I'm talking about. Anything used to make money is considered a professional imaging device - Can we agree.


----------



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

DTG Printer said:


> Peter - Desk top DTG machines are anything relatively portable that can be transported by 2 people in an SUV! You know what I'm talking about. Anything used to make money is considered a professional imaging device - Can we agree.


Haha, lol. I will agree with you cuz you sounds very likable guy. I may know what you mean but beginers will not.
We all carry different dictionary. 
Where I am at called circle middle of cross street is Around about.
Other place bump to slow down is Dead cop.
Maybe in your dictionary says Kornit is the only printer makes money is very old time record before Before Christ (B.C). FYI so many large format can be lift by 2 person. SUV can carry 96" wide format by 2 person. It is so cool to see someone categorize by 2 person and SUV. 
I just little bit concern about new visitor to your site may drop in ancient thoughts.
I see other way around then yours but still we all have different books. It will be healthier launch to your site if you putting together correct infos possible not guess info or you know what I am talking about info. Just my 2 cents. Lots of luck. 
In my country when someone open up the business we bring matches(tons) because we wish his business will be like a burning fire. Lots of matches to you!
One day we will do Cheers & Beers!


----------



## DTG Printer (Sep 18, 2011)

allamerican said:


> Haha, lol. I will agree with you cuz you sounds very likable guy. I may know what you mean but beginers will not.
> We all carry different dictionary.
> Where I am at called circle middle of cross street is Around about.
> Other place bump to slow down is Dead cop.
> ...


Hi Peter
Remember that Javelin you sold me 20 years ago - that was not table top! Tons of matches hmm... I my country we look at the guy and we say arson!!!!!!!!! Will you be at SGIA? We could go large format shopping together and see what we can lift!! Best as Always to you. Thanks.

Btw - ...I got a laugh


----------



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

In trust I am not try to be funny about match. I really wish your best. It maybe my English but never try to be funny or any. If you took in other way than my good wish I am apologize to you sincerely. 
See you in SGIA. Please tell me who you are to me. I will be so happy to meet you. 
Cheers & beers!


----------

