# GX-24 Speed & Downforce Weight Settings... for GLITTER???



## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm a newbie to the Roland GX-24, let's start with that, but I've used a Gerber 4A for 20+ years. With my ancient, built-like-a-tank Gerber, I could usually just pile more weight on the counterbalance and slow down the already SLOOOW cutting speed if the material called for it. 

We are cutting waaay more glitter than I expected we would since getting this GX-24 cutter, and I am aware that the blades need to be kept extra fresh. But WOW, I am set at 250 grams (maximum downforce) and slowed down to 20CM/second and it is BARELY deep enough....ESPECIALLY for black glitter heat press. My suppliers (Specialty Materials and Stahls) are both surprised I'm having to set the downforce so high on this black material. Gold isn't so bad, which makes me wonder if the material in question is maybe a bad batch.

New blades (45°, Genuine Roland Knives) do seem to help, only the tiniest amount, and are soon only barely cutting deep enough again. I tried a new 60° blade also, (I'm not sure those are Genuine Roland) but I couldn't tell much difference. Other garment (and signage) vinyls are well within the cutters capabilities, even with less pristine knives. 

I'm kinda stumped, but I do like the speed, accuracy and etc when cutting less challenging material.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks! 

Stan


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

I don't have a Roland, I have a Graphtec, but I never change the force, except when the blade begins to wear, for any color, only when using sign vinyl or e-z weed. I use a 60* blade for everything, including sticky flock for rhinestones or while using Hartco sandblast material.


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## Resu (Oct 16, 2011)

I get good results using the following settings on GX-24 with 60 degree blades:

Speed: 15cm/s; Downforce: 80g - 120g; Offset: 0.250mm 

I usually cut McLogans' Gecko Flex glitter offerings, which is similar to Specialty's Glitter Flex Ultra.

Try a new or different blade holder because that may be the culprit.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

Resu and Mfatty500,

Both your replies make me wonder if my plotter might be kinda broken, or perhaps I'm doing something else wrong. I did buy it used, but it seemed in good condition, it is reliable and it cuts tiny details very accurately.

Or... I might not have enough blade exposed. I always set them at the thickness of a normal credit card, because of something I read on this board. And Resu, I bought another blade holder last week, thinking along the same lines as you. No difference.

I am NOT using 60° blades, although I have tried them. 

This thing would NEVER cut Harco Sandblast Mask! HA! I could barely cut it with my Gerber back in the day!!

_(Coincidentally, years ago I fabbed up 2 of the BIGGEST Vertical All Heart Sandblasted Redwood Signs I've ever seen. 5' X 20' ovals. STUPID huge, with full length splines and a countersunk, epoxied-in perimeter rope to minimize the expected splitting which never materialized. Gallons and gallons of latex housepaint went into that project, that about killed me. They still stand, but have sadly been disgraced by some doofus sign hack after the restaurant sold. They looked good for almost 20 years though. I'd never do it again, even if I could actually buy 2x6x20' vertical all heart redwood. I wish I had one of those hung in my shop.)_


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## sttbtch (Oct 5, 2010)

I do have the gx24 and to cut the glitter with a 45 degree blade when the blade is new I cut at 180 down force and 250 when it gets older. Doesn't cut through the carrier and weeds easy.

Sent from my SM-N900V using T-Shirt Forums


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## ayukish (Aug 18, 2005)

A force around 180 should be sufficient on the GX-24. I wouldn't recommend taking the blade out any further. Roland recommends it to be out the thickness of the material you are cutting and half the thickness of the carrier. A half - full credit card thickness is generally good enough.

If you're working with the new blade holder, that should rule it out. But is everything OEM? Are you using quality blades? Have you examined your cutting strip for grooves? 

The glitter materials are tougher to cut than your standard film and vinyl materials, but it shouldn't be THAT hard!


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

180 would work on the Gold Glitter Flex Ultra, but not the Black, period. Not on THIS plotter. Now I'm beginning to suspect this material is slightly outsized somehow.

And yes, the GX-24 is all stock. 

I've not thought of the cutting strip until just now, but it looks good to me...certainly no marking or cutting.

Does this material trash a blade in like 5 minutes of cutting? Because I *MIGHT* be able to cut at 180 grams, @ a snail's pace with a fresh knife out of the box. It scarcely marks the carrier sheet even at 250.


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## sttbtch (Oct 5, 2010)

no cuts on the stripe. I might have the blade set to low. I use 110 for reg siser ez weed and car vinyls. metallic car vinyl is at about 130


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## ayukish (Aug 18, 2005)

If it works on one and not the other and you got them from the same company, it's probably a material issue.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

WOW.....


I just got off the phone with the vendor of the Black Glitter. They are sending out a new roll, 20" X 30 yards for free. They knew they had a problem, that much is clear from my conversation, but they also think it is solved. 

It makes sense now. We'll see....

I'll try to post back here as to how the new roll works out, but I'll bet it will work tons better.

Thank you for the responses!!
Stan


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Hopefully that does the trick for you. I have had bad rolls of vinyl before, but none that would not cut properly, they just would weed a lot harder that most or the adhesive was way to sticky. Also, what kind of blade are you using? I know a lot of people like clean cut blades, but for me, they just do not work, I use a cheap blade from china. Where are you getting the vinyl from and what kind is it? In case I missed it.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

USA Blades, Roland Branded 45°

Specialty Materials, Tulsa
and 
Stahls

I should have a replacement roll by tomorrow.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Good, keep us posted.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Funny thing about blades are if you have it set to low it won't cut correctly and if its extended out to far you will run into the same problem so it is crucial you have it dialed in for the material you are cutting.

I don't really subscribe to the credit card example that so many talk about here, but hey I suppose its a good starting point.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

plan b said:


> Funny thing about blades are if you have it set to low it won't cut correctly and if its extended out to far you will run into the same problem so it is crucial you have it dialed in for the material you are cutting.
> 
> I don't really subscribe to the credit card example that so many talk about here, but hey I suppose its a good starting point.



OK. How so?

I own this place (with my wife) but I'm basically the screen printer. I'm trying to get up to speed on this plotter so I can coach "The Help" to do the vinyl cutting. Around here, we're all used to a pinfed plotter that was mighty simple.

I can see how having the knife too exposed might cut too deep. Is that what you're saying?

Plus that isn't my particular problem with this thread. 

Is this machine designed to utilize the tip of the knife holder as a limiting factor in depth of cut? That seems an obvious design feature to me, (Simple Farmboy that I am) especially owing to the fact that the holder is reportedly ceramic, not ABS or other plastics.... like it appeared to be.

If that is so, and I *think* I'm right about that, wouldn't a tiny bit more knife exposure allow *more* penetration? 

Thanks, 
Stan

P.S. I posted my question to Roland support and here is the answer--cut and pasted: _Recommend using a 60 deg blade and making the following changes in the vinyl cutter. Chnage offset to .500 and slow down the speed to 5cm/s. (_Note the fine sentence structure and careful speeling.)  Additionally, why wood eye want to chnage the offset to .500?

Truth is, I don't actually understand the meaning of "offset" in this context.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Stan, loosen up the corset a little and take a deep breath.. Its simple really and as follows,,,

1. Run your finger over the cutting strip, make sure it is smooth with no cut marks.

2. Adjust your blade depth to where the tip of the blade just kisses the backing ( you should see a indention on the material backing of the actual outline of the cut) To do this take your blade holder out and hold the tip of it to the side of the material and adjust the blade to the point the blade only kisses the material, repeat as many time as you need after a test cut. ( make sure you have a sharp blade with no nicks in the blade)

3. Start your downforce at around 170 to 180 ( increase or decrease as needed) also on this point slow speed way down.

4. If the machine is not completing cuts then adjust offset.

If the material is the problem then try cutting on another sheet of same like material..

You should not have to max out your downforce to cut glitter


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

I shot a pic of the old material causing me grief and the new, thinner material which arrived today. These are both 10 yard rolls. I measured the material at about 12 and 14 thousandths respectively (its... hard.... to... type... thou... sand... ths... with... this... cor... set... so... tight.... ) so there's maybe just a little bit over 2 mil difference, maybe 2.5. I would say it's at least 10% easier to cut. The backing material is roughly the same for both samples, at about .005'.

So.

At this point, I believe the problem was mostly with the material. @ plan b, I can't quite turn down to 180 so far. But weed-able at 220 is better than BARELY weed-able at 250, and I got some new knives in the mail today--from a different vendor. If that makes a difference too, I'll post back.

Thanks to all!
Stan


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

I've learned a few things that might help someone else. A properly set up GX-24 WILL INDEED cut glitter without having to max out the downforce. I cut several test plots yesterday at 170 grams, with _good_ glitter vinyl that weeded very nicely. I received some new blades from Bits & Bits that completed my epiphany.

1) Try several blades from several manufacturers, and keep them sharp. Keep several on hand.

2) Don't automatically assume the vinyl you are having difficulty with is not a part of the problem. It might just be a bad roll. It happened to me, and the vendor GLADLY replaced it all. It was 80% of my problem.

3) Offset is the way Roland deals with inaccurate corners...much the same way as your vehicle's tires track differently during a tight corner. This excellent video from Stahl's Direct can demonstrate how that plays out. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne71aXXp4BY#t=365[/media]Waaay happy now....
Stan

_(Optional--for the repressed engineer in me: Josh Ellsworth in the above video could have gone a step further with the wheels analogy. A four wheeled vehicle is analogous to the plotter head turning its precisely squared corners. But a drag knife won't turn an actual squared corner without some hocus pocus. The point itself would look more like where the BACK wheels would track during a hard turn with your car. Imagine a long wheelbase truck turning a HARD right hand turn. The driver MUST compensate for where the *BACK* wheels will actually track, or he's going wipe out a bunch of stuff and get fired. Front wheels don't matter much in this analogy and neither does the actual print head. 

That is "offset" in my simple world of barnyard physics. More offset for a bigger truck, less offset for a tiny car. WE DON'T CARE ONE WHIT(!)...where the cutter head goes on a corner, but not so the actual cut. We want the knifepoint--which equals the rear wheels--to cut pretty square corners, not round ones. There's more, but my corset isn't THAT tight. Wink, wink. Think on these things and the MORE will show itself, once the concept is understood. I hope that helps somebody.)_


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