# Problems with burning the T Shirts



## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

among other things! So i've been using the GX7000 to sublimate mugs, got that down no problem but now I want to move into T-Shirts for my more complex designs (I use vinyl currently).

~ I'm using AWD tees (Fabric 100% polyester/Weight 185gsm). 

~Now I've set the temperature to 200 Degrees celsius (400 Farenheit) and pressed from between 20-60 seconds and just can't get it down.

The problem is that either the shirt is burning ever so slightly around where the sublimation paper isn't...this occurs the longer I leave it pressed. 

I've reduced the time of pressing but then this means the colours don't transfer fully 

Any tips guys? I've already wasted about 5 of these tees trying to master it, just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Could the shirts just be of poor quality or do I need to press longer at a lower temp?


Any replies greatly appreciated


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

heavens gates said:


> among other things! So i've been using the GX7000 to sublimate mugs, got that down no problem but now I want to move into T-Shirts for my more complex designs (I use vinyl currently).
> 
> ~ I'm using AWD tees (Fabric 100% polyester/Weight 185gsm).
> 
> ...


Too hot! Turn down the temp maybe 10 - 20 degs.


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi,
thanks for the reply, and press for 40 seconds or so?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

heavens gates said:


> Hi,
> thanks for the reply, and press for 40 seconds or so?


Depends on your papers, ink and substrate. 30 seconds is the lowest I have ever heard anyone transfer. 

I do 380 at 50 seconds but I don't have what you have ... 40 seconds should be OK as a starting point. If at that setting you are not getting enough color, but no burning, try a longer dwell.


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

thanks a lot, i'll give it a go and report back shortly


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

Great, almost there! maybe still a little darker outside of the transfer area but barely noticable, gonna knock 10 secs off the time (will make it 70secs) and hopefully that'll be the happy medium! My only issue now is that pesky edge that is imprinted into a polyester shirt  I believe tearing the edges helps? Any other tips guys?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

heavens gates said:


> Great, almost there! maybe still a little darker outside of the transfer area but barely noticable, gonna knock 10 secs off the time (will make it 70secs) and hopefully that'll be the happy medium! My only issue now is that pesky edge that is imprinted into a polyester shirt  I believe tearing the edges helps? Any other tips guys?


I think 70 seconds is a typo?

I use large mousepads to get rid of the line problems. The paper is larger than the mousepad and the mousepad elevates the tshirt.

If I can find the link for those I will post later.


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> I think 70 seconds is a typo?
> 
> I use large mousepads to get rid of the line problems. The paper is larger than the mousepad and the mousepad elevates the tshirt.
> 
> If I can find the link for those I will post later.


Hi,
I started at 40 but the colours still weren't strong enough and then tried 80secs, that was the most successful yet, have tried 70secs and thats kinda produced similar results. It has just occured to me however that I haven't been using a teflon sheet, which I hope will allow me to press at a slightly higher temp without burning the t shirt but producing stronger colour!

Thanks for the mousemat tip I'll see if I can find some here in the UK


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## Bee Promoted (Nov 15, 2011)

I always do 375 for 55-60 seconds, seems to work well for me. Also, are you using an extra teflon sheet to the entire surface? The sheet greatly reduces the uneven heating and scorching problems.
p.s. my times include my teflon sheet being inserted.


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

Bee Promoted said:


> I always do 375 for 55-60 seconds, seems to work well for me. Also, are you using an extra teflon sheet to the entire surface? The sheet greatly reduces the uneven heating and scorching problems.
> p.s. my times include my teflon sheet being inserted.


I never normally use teflon sheets as I use a high thread count cotton tees and vinyl method but it looks like I'm gonna need one for this method, polyester doesn't like too much heat does it


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

heavens gates said:


> Hi,
> I started at 40 but the colours still weren't strong enough and then tried 80secs, that was the most successful yet, have tried 70secs and thats kinda produced similar results. It has just occured to me however that I haven't been using a teflon sheet, which I hope will allow me to press at a slightly higher temp without burning the t shirt but producing stronger colour!
> 
> Thanks for the mousemat tip I'll see if I can find some here in the UK


Your sublimation paper is a big factor for dye release. You should not have to transfer for so long.


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## Bee Promoted (Nov 15, 2011)

Polyester is always funny in my opinion. Even as a cheaper route, I sometimes use just plain parchment paper (NOT waxed paper) from the grocery store. It is good in a pinch and good to 500 degrees. Give it a try and see. Good luck.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes,

we are using a high release paper TextPrint XP HR for cloth. I have also heard that True Pix paper is good.

-James


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Bee Promoted said:


> Polyester is always funny in my opinion. Even as a cheaper route, I sometimes use just plain parchment paper (NOT waxed paper) from the grocery store. It is good in a pinch and good to 500 degrees. Give it a try and see. Good luck.


Agree. Teflon is a heat insulator, I never ever use it on top, only on my lower platen pad. 

I get butcher paper paper from Sam's club in long rolls cheap, also, Costco has cheaper, wider, and longer roles of parchment paper vs. the grocery stores.


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Your sublimation paper is a big factor for dye release. You should not have to transfer for so long.


Perhaps the temp is too low then? I think If I increase by 20 degrees with a teflon covering then that should be that


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Bee Promoted said:


> Polyester is always funny in my opinion. Even as a cheaper route, I sometimes use just plain parchment paper (NOT waxed paper) from the grocery store. It is good in a pinch and good to 500 degrees. Give it a try and see. Good luck.


Also, I thought a specific paper was recommended for Ricoh's are you using that?


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

I usually press at 200C for 60 sec unless the fabric is a blend or something very thin and delicate.
Try dropping down temp and/or reducing time as Mike suggested, however, the "burning" issue could also come from the fabric itself - some garments on the market (especially some sports/active wear tops) are coated with all sorts of things to increase performance properties, or for anti-static and anti-stain purposes, etc.
Potentially, it's this coating that goes slightly yellow.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

D.Evo. said:


> I usually press at 200C for 60 sec unless the fabric is a blend or something very thin and delicate.
> Try dropping down temp and/or reducing time as Mike suggested, however, the "burning" issue could also come from the fabric itself - some garments on the market (especially some sports/active wear tops) are coated with all sorts of things to increase performance properties, or for anti-static and anti-stain purposes, etc.
> Potentially, it's this coating that goes slightly yellow.


Good point. I'm used to doing "Vapors" and they are meant to be sublimated.


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Also, I thought a specific paper was recommended for Ricoh's are you using that?


I think I'm using the right paper as supplied by magictouch.co.uk who I got the printer off in the first place, It all works fine for Mug printing.




D.Evo. said:


> I usually press at 200C for 60 sec unless the fabric is a blend or something very thin and delicate.
> Try dropping down temp and/or reducing time as Mike suggested, however, the "burning" issue could also come from the fabric itself - some garments on the market (especially some sports/active wear tops) are coated with all sorts of things to increase performance properties, or for anti-static and anti-stain purposes, etc.
> Potentially, it's this coating that goes slightly yellow.


It certainly could be this tbh, in which case its infuriating! Its effectively a duff product if you can't actually sublimate onto it  I'm hoping that parchment paper/teflon will stop this issue of yellowing/burning but still allow me to get the colour. If not I'll have to abandon this technique 
My times and temp aren't too dissimilar from yours so I hope I'm not far off!


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

Tearing off the edge of the transfer will help to reduce the imprint of the transfer as well as elevating the area of the print and making sure the paper is slightly bigger than the raised area. Apart from mouse pads you can use heat resistant foam or Teflon pillows (foam pads with teflon covers).


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Might be your shirt. I have used as high as 405-410 up to 67 secs and have not had a burnt shirt and have used different ones, VA, Augusta, Denali.

To do a down and dirty test you can get Epson Matte Presentation paper and try it and see if you still get the burnt area. Blacks were pretty dang good using this paper too. 

Using a teflon on top will increase your electric bill. You will need to heat up to 400 to get say 375-385. I use paper I get from Sams Club. 18" wide and like 100 plut feet long. Works good. Don't try to be cheap and reuse. I did and pressed the image that gassed on to the paper onto the next shirt. Being cheap cost me a shirt.

Also to stop wasting money on shirts go to a fabric store and get a yard or so of polyester material to test on. Cut out blocks of the fabric and cut up your prints and press till you get what you like than do a shirt. 

D.Evo knows alot more than me however in my attempts to tear the edges only makes a funky looking press line if it shows up and most times it still does. You don't say what size press you have but if your using a press that is smaller than your 13x19 print ability then print at 13x19 and let the paper overhang. I got a 12x15 from Sunie and do that now. No press lines, tho on colored shirts still get the shiny box. :-(
When I have small orders I still trim the image down. The lines are hardly noticeable but its a pain.

Good Luck
Mark


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

freebird1963 said:


> Might be your shirt. I have used as high as 405-410 up to 67 secs and have not had a burnt shirt and have used different ones, VA, Augusta, Denali.
> 
> To do a down and dirty test you can get Epson Matte Presentation paper and try it and see if you still get the burnt area. Blacks were pretty dang good using this paper too.
> 
> ...


Mark,

What sub paper for garments did you use when had your Ricoh working?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Conde SPP paper. With the Sams butcher paper on top of that.

Mark


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

freebird1963 said:


> D.Evo knows alot more than me however in my attempts to tear the edges only makes a funky looking press line if it shows up and most times it still does. You don't say what size press you have but if your using a press that is smaller than your 13x19 print ability then print at 13x19 and let the paper overhang. I got a 12x15 from Sunie and do that now. No press lines, tho on colored shirts still get the shiny box. :-(
> When I have small orders I still trim the image down. The lines are hardly noticeable but its a pain.
> 
> Good Luck
> Mark


Mark, if you still get the press lines and shiny box maybe the pressure a little high? Have you tried to drop it down a little? 

I agree, if you can have the paper over-hanging to avoid press line - go for it. I have a big heat press, but often have to pess small-ish prints, so I either tear the edges or use an insert to raise printable area. 

There were a few times when I had a "funky looking press line" happening too - mainly when the pressure didn't get adjusted between different jobs on different substrates or the fabric was thicker and more textured than usual. Using a lint roller straight after lifting the transfer when the shirt is still warm helped a lot - a few strokes in different directions helped the fabric to bounce back.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

D.Evo. said:


> Mark, if you still get the press lines and shiny box maybe the pressure a little high? Have you tried to drop it down a little?
> 
> I agree, if you can have the paper over-hanging to avoid press line - go for it. I have a big heat press, but often have to pess small-ish prints, so I either tear the edges or use an insert to raise printable area.
> 
> There were a few times when I had a "funky looking press line" happening too - mainly when the pressure didn't get adjusted between different jobs on different substrates or the fabric was thicker and more textured than usual. Using a lint roller straight after lifting the transfer when the shirt is still warm helped a lot - a few strokes in different directions helped the fabric to bounce back.


Tania
Yea I have played with pressure. I have read were some use just enough pressure to hold the paper in place. When I use light pressure my graphic doesn't fully sublimate. Somewere on here are pics of that. Splotty. 
I have done the foam but thats a pain to deal with. I haven't tried the mousepad. Figured it was too stiff on the edges. Might try that. 
On white they aren't as noticeable but on the colored ones I have done they stand out way to much. So I normally trim. 
As for the shiny box I was told that's the dye being re sublimated.

Thanks
Mark


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## Malpeque (Dec 21, 2011)

Are you sure your temp setting on your press is right when mine shows 385 F it is really 400 if you don't have one get a temperature gun and check your press i know of 1 press that is out by 30deg. makes a big differance


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

Very thankful for all the advice guys, much appreciated. I'm gonna give it a go with the teflon sheet tomorrow and let you know how I get on! 

I've also thought of something else I may be doing wrong-I'm not leaving it to set after pressing-does this matter with sublimation?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Malpeque said:


> Are you sure your temp setting on your press is right when mine shows 385 F it is really 400 if you don't have one get a temperature gun and check your press i know of 1 press that is out by 30deg. makes a big differance


Good reminder for all of us as I think we all assume the temp indicated on the press is accurate. Our Maxipress was off just over 20 degrees. We check it every two months now to make sure we have a consistent product.


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## balata (Jan 16, 2012)

heavens gates said:


> ... My only issue now is that pesky edge that is imprinted into a polyester shirt  I believe tearing the edges helps? Any other tips guys?


Vapor apparel sells a foam kit (heat resistant of course) that eliminates the edge. I cut a piece about a 1/4 inch smaller than each of my paper sizes. (You'd think they would just sell it that way) and it did away with those lines completely.


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## Malpeque (Dec 21, 2011)

they would charge twice as much for the foam maybe even more


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Polyester won't scorch nearly as fast as cotton will. 

Also, sublimating on fabric requires heavy pressure.


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

lben said:


> Also, sublimating on fabric requires heavy pressure.


I very strongly disagree with this statement. 
We work with different types of textiles for different applications in large volumes on daily bases - light to medium pressure is the best for printing on fabrics. 

Sometimes you may need to increase dwell time to make sure the print is concistent, but using heavy pressure will result in shine and in altering fabric texture (i.e. it will flatten mesh, honey-comb weave, micro rib, etc).


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

As said above check your press temp. A full contact temp gauge is best. An IR is ok but only after verified by a full contact gauge. You can however get a rough check by checking boiling water at 212F at sea level and degreasing by approx 3F per 1000 ft elevation. So 1000ft = 209F. There are calculators on Internet.


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## Malpeque (Dec 21, 2011)

I agree with D Evo 100%


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## heavens gates (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks so much for the help guys, the teflon sheet and the correct temp have done it for me. Just trial and error RE the edge problem I suppose, I use lots of different size images so I'll get a few mousemats as a trial!


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## balata (Jan 16, 2012)

On the edge problem, while the images are many sizes most of the time you'll probably use 2 or 3 sizes of paper to print. If you have a piece of foam about a 1/4" smaller than your paper sizes you'll handle the edge on almost all your work.


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## clsgraphics2100 (Nov 20, 2007)

Also, peroxide will help remove some of the scorch marks. yes the stuff from the drug store.


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## Stally (Jan 23, 2009)

For AWD Just sub T-shirts I use 190 deg C, Light/medium pressure for 40 seconds

the less pressure you use the more time I would give it.
It's all about finding a happy medium.

I've started stocking the Just sub JS001 T-shirts.


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## swinns2012 (Jan 29, 2013)

hi new here myself having a similar problem is printing on cotton t shirts no good as i have to leave it on for too long or the colour wont come out plus when i wash it the colour comes off am i doing something wrong


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

swinns2012 said:


> hi new here myself having a similar problem is printing on cotton t shirts no good as i have to leave it on for too long or the colour wont come out plus when i wash it the colour comes off am i doing something wrong


What are you trying to do? If you are trying to press a sublimation print on cotton that is your first problem. Sublimation ink won't stay on cotton - it will wash out. Cotton needs a lower temp for a shorter amount of time than polyester for sublimation does.


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