# Why AccuRip is better than Simple Seps



## cfree (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm looking at purchasing a new rip. I've used fast rip in the past, but am now looking to upgrade.

I've was going to get AccuRip until I saw SimpleSeps.
So I'm wondering why I would want to use AccuRip instead.

It doesn't seem like the halftone dots in SimpleSep are crisp as what I'm used to, however do they need to be. Also I'm wondering about any moray patterns that SimpleSeps may have using the so called new HSB and monochome separations. I've also used VuRite Spot process and had great results. So how does the Simple Raster look compared to that?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. NOTE: I will be using a metal halide exposing unit very soon.

Thanks


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

First off if you have fast rip you can upgrade to Filmaker DTP for around $195. Which is who actually made fastrip. Filmaker supports variable dot tech in the actual printing where no other Rip does. All others only use it for in control which is a waste. 

2. simple sep3 prints very crisp halftone dots. If you looking what's in the preview Corel is terrible at previewing bitmaps. I own Filmaker and its the most advanced Rip only lacking the stolastic dot which accurip doesn't either and for the past 5 or so months have been printing with simple seps 3 for almost everything with halftones. 

3 accurip is ok and is the easiest to install of standalone RIPs but is just average results. Each Rip has a trial. If you want a file that was ripped with Simple seps 3 PM me for email and I can rip something for you. I tested all before buying filmmaker and it won hands down but that was before simple seps 3. I had ver 2 at the time. Filmmaker will still give better gradient results in very fine detail but to most customers can't tell the diffrence.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

I agree with sben763 in that FilmMaker is way better than AccuRip.

That said the advantages of FilmMaker or AccuRip over Simple Seps is that you can use FilmMaker and AccuRip with any program because they are stand alone RIPs.


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## lew (Aug 10, 2009)

sben763 said:


> ...I own Filmaker and its the most advanced Rip only lacking the stolastic dot which accurip doesn't either...



Accurip does have stochastic (FM) output if thats what you mean.


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## cfree (Oct 26, 2010)

Well, I've used fast rip at my old place of business, so I think I need a dongle for that upgrade which I did at my old business, I just couldn't remember the name of it.

That aside, are you guys telling me that simple seps3 is the way to go? I do use Corel X5 for most film output anyway. I would like to see a sample of a ripped file, that would be great. I see right now that advancedshirts.com has a bundle deal for all of that. I would be curious to know how the HSB separations compare to vueRite or spot process by freehand graphics.

Thank you all for your help.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

lew said:


> Accurip does have stochastic (FM) output if thats what you mean.


It does not have the stochastic dot available. Unless something changed but the price would go way up. wasatch is the only screen rip that has it available that I know of and the reason its $1200. Filmmaker at 1 time said they were going to add but it would be a add on $300-$500. Then it never materialized. I accurip had it available for $500 I would buy it.


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## cfree (Oct 26, 2010)

Would a stochastic pattern print well in the screen printed apparel world? With my new single point halide light source, I would think it will be possible. I don't know, I'm very new to this type of light source.
I would love the idea of using this type of film positive.


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## lew (Aug 10, 2009)

Yes it does do FM and yes it works a treat.

I like the way accurip do not penalise customers for wanting to reduce their overheads by using large format printers. One price fits all.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

In certain situations its great to have available. I am lucky that I have someone that can print films with stochastic if needed but have to be shipped. I used a few years back and I didn't do the seps. The job came out great. If it ever comes available to filmmaker I will buy and use more.


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

I have accurip, and I don't like the stochastic output.

I have see wasatch with hybrid dot (AM + FM) , and it is night and days same for the price 

But for the price accurip do a decent job.


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## cfree (Oct 26, 2010)

So AccuRip vs SimpleSeps3... Who wins? I like the price of Simple Seps. but worried that the quality just wont be there. I guess I could always wait and trial both of them.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

About the same in my opinion as far as halftone output. If you want to see what it can out put PM and I'll rip a file and send back. 

I am going to download trial again when I get back from vacation and call the guys at accurip. They were the ones who told me it wasn't available.

Edit. Simple seps also seps vector and monochrome bitmaps. In order to do rater file you would also need Simple Seps Raster which also has a photoshop version.


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## Omni (Mar 28, 2012)

sben763 said:


> It does not have the stochastic dot available. Unless something changed but the price would go way up. wasatch is the only screen rip that has it available that I know of and the reason its $1200. Filmmaker at 1 time said they were going to add but it would be a add on $300-$500. Then it never materialized. I accurip had it available for $500 I would buy it.


Just got finished with my Trial of AccuRIP.....It does have FM: Frequency Modulated (stochastic) print capacity, of which you can choose dot size.....I experimented with it, but did not have the time to do a full blown design application......AccuRIPs halftone dots are ragged though, so I fail to see the virtue of purchasing it, even though it does offer Stochastic screening.....I would side with SBEN on FilmMaker, as far as crisper halftones is concerned......However, I have yet to find a RIP that can print the crisp halftone patterns that I used to achieve in the darkroom with lith film........But since Lith film is basically obsolete, and clearly less efficient, A midpriced RIP is certainly required, short of the kind of money that Imagesetting technology would require......


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## binkspot (Jun 12, 2013)

Do not rule out the possibility that the type/brand of ink you are using in your printer and films will affect the quality of the image and dots.


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## Ruimpress (Sep 15, 2011)

cfree said:


> So AccuRip vs SimpleSeps3... Who wins? I like the price of Simple Seps. but worried that the quality just wont be there. I guess I could always wait and trial both of them.


Here is a simpleseps3 halftone output,of course using simple sepsraster for the color separation, due to my customer's budget, the image was printed with only 4 colors, ( white, yellow, red and black ), but you can see how I was able to get some of the browns and greens. The artwork 
it was actually a paper drawing of my customer's daughter.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

binkspot said:


> Do not rule out the possibility that the type/brand of ink you are using in your printer and films will affect the quality of the image and dots.


This is a great point. Laying on too much ink will cause jagged edges. Accurip can produce some nice dots. Ok so I called the guy who printed the films for me and he said he prints AM and FM with wastach. I don't have 100% understanding of this method. All I can say is that I printed the same design with his films (AM) filmmaker accurip and simple seps. 

Ill try to find the pics but my PC lost a ssd and the pics may be lost. Results were. Wastach, filmmaker , simple Seps accurip. Simple seps was close to filmmaker and was before simple seps3 which had a major halftone improvement. The accurip may not had the Option at the time I'll have to retest in a few weeks but I'm only going to do with a 1 color image.


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## Omni (Mar 28, 2012)

binkspot said:


> Do not rule out the possibility that the type/brand of ink you are using in your printer and films will affect the quality of the image and dots.


Binkspot......Yes, I am using the Clarity ink from epson, a dye based ink.....Can you turn me on to an ink that prints a perfectly shaped, razor sharp halftone?....I am also wondering if different droplet weights may play a role in the mix of things......What droplet weight do you generally set at to print crisp halftones?


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## Omni (Mar 28, 2012)

sben763 said:


> This is a great point. Laying on too much ink will cause jagged edges. Accurip can produce some nice dots. Ok so I called the guy who printed the films for me and he said he prints AM and FM with wastach. I don't have 100% understanding of this method. All I can say is that I printed the same design with his films (AM) filmmaker accurip and simple seps.
> 
> Ill try to find the pics but my PC lost a ssd and the pics may be lost. Results were. Wastach, filmmaker , simple Seps accurip. Simple seps was close to filmmaker and was before simple seps3 which had a major halftone improvement. The accurip may not had the Option at the time I'll have to retest in a few weeks but I'm only going to do with a 1 color image.


SBEN.....when you do that, can you post a high rez image of your results. I really dig stochastic images and unfortunately did not have the time to really experiment....And if this isn't too much to ask, post what dot size you played with?....


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## binkspot (Jun 12, 2013)

We run the Cobra ink in refillable cartridges on a 4900 and a CSI on a 1400. Water proof film with Acurip. Last time we tested we set the droplet weight around 2 or 3 on both, can't remember exactly. I can not get a "Perfect Dot" this way but it is close enough to do crisp half tones, 4cp and simulated jobs. It took awhile trying different films to get the desired results. I was using another ink for awhile which I think gave a little better results but not worth paying twice the price.


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## Omni (Mar 28, 2012)

binkspot said:


> We run the Cobra ink in refillable cartridges on a 4900 and a CSI on a 1400. Water proof film with Acurip. Last time we tested we set the droplet weight around 2 or 3 on both, can't remember exactly. I can not get a "Perfect Dot" this way but it is close enough to do crisp half tones, 4cp and simulated jobs. It took awhile trying different films to get the desired results. I was using another ink for awhile which I think gave a little better results but not worth paying twice the price.


Does the 2 or 3 droplet weight give you an opaque enough film to burn screens?....I did the test droplet print on film and the larger squares were no where near opaque enough to produce a good burn at the 2 and 3 droplet weight.....I am wondering if the small compact nature of the halftone dots consolidates the printer ink to produce the needed opacity?....I can see how a lighter droplet weight could sharpen the dots by laying down less ink, thereby producing less "overflow" around the edges of each dot......I have a 30 X magnifier and was amazed to see how much "blobbing" around the dots was produced at a droplet weight of 8......Epson 1430 is what I am printing with......


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## binkspot (Jun 12, 2013)

We get a light fuz around the dots. Almost like they are growing hair. If I go above a 5 on either printer the film comes out like crap and over a 8 the ink is almost running off the film. 

I have no problem burning screens and getting nice crisp edges on everything from large spot colors, fine lines and little dots. 

I maybe getting a little off topic here but IMO there are so many factors to making a good stencil to consider. Starting with properly cleaned screen, good art work, good films, proper mesh selection, good emulsion, proper exposure time and lastly a good wash out of the stencil. 

I know the attached picture is not real high detail but its all I have at the moment. That's Ulano Orange coated 2/1 on a 230 mesh about 40ltu burn (burn time may be off haven't used the orange in about a year)


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

Brian: Are you running 1440 or 2880 for DPI? I keep looking at dots from my 'fast' 1440x1440 SD HS queue, thinking I need to try the higher res, but like many, I have one out of fifty jobs it really matters on...

Back on topic, something else to keep in mind is that you can have an excellent positive that you can see a little light through--remember stencils are exposed primarily with UV, not 'visible' light. A lot of the time you can see a little brown or reddish haze in little ink 'holes' that will still block UV rather well.


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

sben763 said:


> This is a great point. Laying on too much ink will cause jagged edges. Accurip can produce some nice dots. Ok so I called the guy who printed the films for me and he said he prints AM and FM with wastach. I don't have 100% understanding of this method. All I can say is that I printed the same design with his films (AM) filmmaker accurip and simple seps.
> 
> Ill try to find the pics but my PC lost a ssd and the pics may be lost. Results were. Wastach, filmmaker , simple Seps accurip. Simple seps was close to filmmaker and was before simple seps3 which had a major halftone improvement. The accurip may not had the Option at the time I'll have to retest in a few weeks but I'm only going to do with a 1 color image.


I wish someone around here had a copy I could rent time on.

The Wasatch SP is out of control because of the AM+FM feature--essentially you get ordered dots until you hit the size of dot you know you can hold properly on a screen, and then the lower percentages are stochastic.

It reminds me of that five dollar shake in Pulp Fiction--"I don't know if it's worth five dollars, but it's pretty @&%$in' good."


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## binkspot (Jun 12, 2013)

1440 I think, my wife doesn't let me mess
With that stuff. 

I know a few printers using wastach, very nice program. One of the nicest features is you can select the channel you want print from and print on multiple printers at the same time. Maybe some day or just wait for a DTS.


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

Ruimpress said:


> Here is a simpleseps3 halftone output,of course using simple sepsraster for the color separation, due to my customer's budget, the image was printed with only 4 colors, ( white, yellow, red and black ), but you can see how I was able to get some of the browns and greens. The artwork
> it was actually a paper drawing of my customer's daughter.


I do not want to get in the middle of the halftone debate I will stay out of that. 

But this HSB sep I want to ask if your client would let me do some training with this image. You did this with 4 spot colors but there is some really some intersecting stuff in your print I can get into and teach with this playing off the hue in the t-shirt.

And Hugo you just made my day you were so close on just 4 colors no white highlight. You have been watching ...


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

ScreenFoo said:


> I wish someone around here had a copy I could rent time on.
> 
> The Wasatch SP is out of control because of the AM+FM feature--essentially you get ordered dots until you hit the size of dot you know you can hold properly on a screen, and then the lower percentages are stochastic.
> 
> It reminds me of that five dollar shake in Pulp Fiction--"I don't know if it's worth five dollars, but it's pretty @&%$in' good."


Now I want to sell my filmmaker and spent the extra to get Wasatch SP. I'm on vacation and feel like I need to start skimping so that I can buy soon as I get back. Damn it should have left the electronics at home.

Edit. I should say and have posted many times. I have only been using simple seps 3 to rip halftones for several months now. So I think I will sell my Filmmaker. You never find a copy of Wasatch used. Now I know why. I just heard back from the guy that printed the stolastic films for me and he says with out the AM-FM feature its worthless.


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## cfree (Oct 26, 2010)

let me know if you're serious about selling film maker


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## Ruimpress (Sep 15, 2011)

AdvancedArtist said:


> I do not want to get in the middle of the halftone debate I will stay out of that.
> 
> But this HSB sep I want to ask if your client would let me do some training with this image. You did this with 4 spot colors but there is some really some intersecting stuff in your print I can get into and teach with this playing off the hue in the t-shirt.
> 
> And Hugo you just made my day you were so close on just 4 colors no white highlight. You have been watching ...


Thank you Tom, I don't think that it should be any problem if you want to use the image for training purpose. I will email the image to your email


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

sben763 said:


> Now I want to sell my filmmaker and spent the extra to get Wasatch SP. I'm on vacation and feel like I need to start skimping so that I can buy soon as I get back. Damn it should have left the electronics at home.
> 
> Edit. I should say and have posted many times. I have only been using simple seps 3 to rip halftones for several months now. So I think I will sell my Filmmaker. You never find a copy of Wasatch used. Now I know why. I just heard back from the guy that printed the stolastic films for me and he says with out the AM-FM feature its worthless.


The other thing I believe I read on here is that if you properly set it up, it does very good 4CP seps. Not sure if that's true or not, but sounds like accurip to FM is similar to FM to Wasatch, at least as far as the learning curve goes. @1200 bucks or so, I can do some PITA photoshop work if I really want to get fancy. 

Oh, and if you're talking about which channel in the printer (i.e. ink slot,) I could have sworn FM has an option for that.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I'm not sure I understand how it all works. I think I'm gonna have to go get schooled on this before I make a decision. Since the few times I have used I didn't print the films. All I know is the results were much better then what I printed from my rip but not in every case


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I spent sometime with Wasatch on the phone today. So now I understand the Am-Fm feature. It will print your standard dot until you hit the micron dot size you can't hold or specify. Then the stolastic takes over printing the last size specified but adjusting the number of dots used so that that the percentages will stay the same as you want. They are going to send me some sample films for testing. They have a 60 day return policy and he told me that they will help get the software dialed in so that your producing the same or better then the test films. There is one issue is that they only support the 4000 series and above for $1095 and as much as $3500 for larger printers. I prefer to use the 1400 because it prints the smallest size dot possible of all Epson printers. So I will have to go back to a 4000 series. They did say some prefer the FM only and other say only Am-Fm will do which is the way I have printed. I believe they said they are sending 65&85 LPI film with and without Am-Fm. 

Someone mentioned here about jagged dots. For accurip they should all be uniform but with filmmaker any Epson with the variable dot technology(almost all) there will be deformities under the microscope and is needed to produce the multitonal cells that create the better gradients but these are microscopic deformities. If they are visable to the naked eye then there is a another underlying issue.


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

I am looking into this and analyzing the AM FM thing with defused dots. So far it is pretty interesting with some images it works well for and other not so well. It seems that when there is allot of mixing of tints like in a clouds seen for example the transition in dot patterns does not work so well. But on other types of image it can work well.










But interesting to say the least.


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## tumtatty (Oct 17, 2012)

Hi Guys,
I've been a long time lurker. I'm completely new to screen printing and have used neither Corel nor Simpleseps/Accurip before a month ago. I've got no reason to write this other than to tell you what I've experienced. I was a little hesitant to post because I'm not sure my artwork is all that great. However I was so tickled when I saw the result of my first effort that I felt compelled to give AdvancedTshirts a big Thumbs up!

The sheer magnitude of cost for the Accurip/sep studio/black maxx system ($1700?) made SimpelSeps worth a try. I'd watched the videos on their website over and over and decided to give them a shot as the first software I would use. It looked like a legitimate competitor to the other stuff out there and the price was definitely the lowest. I thought it might be better to make an under $300 risk if it might save me over $1000.

I just received my Epson 1430 printer and attended a 101 intro to screen printing training class at a local distributor. They sell Accurip and Sep Studio and told me that if I didn't use the ALL Black system I'd never have quality film output

With all that I've read I decided to give it a go anyway using the inks that came with my Epson.

For my first T-shirt I took a photo (JPG) of a collectible double edge razor from the 60's










I used SimpleSeps Raster to perform the color separations. I chose a black and white setting just to see what would happen.

I then used SimpleSeps3 to convert the separations to halftones. I was planning on using a white shirt and was going to just delete the white page but on a whim I copied and pasted the white into the black page and turned them both black. The result looked pretty good to me.

I sent the singe page of halftones to the printer on 11 x 17 film. Epson has a color management tab and I tried to mimic the Rich Black settings that I learned about in the tutorials. I manually adjusted the output to be 100% black and then 20% of the other colors. 

As the film came out of the printer I had no idea if it would burn well. 

I took the film to a friend of mine whose had a screen printing business for many years. They use laser vellum + that spray that darkens the toner and burn the screens in a homemade UV box (no vacuum). 

When I arrived the guy who runs the shop was very surprised at the quality of halftones and darkness of the print. He said it surpassed anything they have ever done using their postscript laser. I was extremely happy upon hearing this news because this guy does not throw out many compliments!

Here is a pic of the film sitting on top of their light box:









I burned the image to a 200 mesh screen that I had coated the day before with emulsion (my first time and it was probably too thick and uneven). Here it is drying out.









I was worried that the details wouldn't come out at all.
However these next 2 pics are from the first shirt I screen printed. The folks at the shop said it was hard to believe it was a 1 color job.



















I'm sold. This shop owner had an Epson 1400 sitting in a box at his place but hadn't used it because of the expense of getting it going. I think he was convinced that the standard Epson Ink and the SimpleSeps software could handle the job. If a rookie like me could pull it off I'm sure he (and you guys) could do a whole lot better.

Cost is a big issue to me as I'm getting started. I wasn't sure if SimpleSeps would perform but I think it did a fantastic job not to mention all the other bells and whistles it as and the ability to preview and modify my halftones before printing which I don't think you can do in AccuRip.

I'm sure AccuRip is a great product and maybe its worth it to upgrade to the Black Maxx system, but I am perfectly happy with what I have right now.


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## bleeder (Jan 8, 2010)

I have simple seps1 and also use an epson 1430. I use refillable carts with my printer. I used to have an epson 1400 and used black in my carts before it died on me, and it made wonderful films. Now I just use standard colors with my refillable carts. I decided that this printer would be my only printer for my family. 


As for SimpleSeps. It may not be as easy as Accurip to use. It makes you think about your art work, and understand what it takes to put out a good print.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Simple seps is 2 programs in 1. It separates and can rip to halftones. The rip part is as easy as accurip. Accurip only rips halftones.

All blackmaxx is is dye ink in all channels. Theres no magic to it. I use to buy the bulk bottle for $130 a liter. I now buy UV dye ink from Hotzone360. $16 for 600ml and its just as dark. Its all about marketing when it comes to most the products on the market in the screen printing industry.


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