# Plastisol and a disappointed customer



## rags16 (Jun 12, 2007)

Folks,

last night I full-filled my first large order and it was seemingly a failure...even though I got paid I really took it on the chin. She absolutely hated the transfers and wanted a much softer feel and look. I used plastisol transfers from F&M and they came out with a strong plastic sticky feel. Can someone tell me if there is any way to get a silk screen feel in a heat pres world. I was so embarressed and had no idea that heat press products had such a negative connotation. When she assked me my process and i said heat press...she made such a disappointed face.


----------



## deChez (Nov 10, 2007)

Yes, you can get a soft feel from a plastisol transfer. It all depends on the kind of ink that is used.

I get my plastisol transfers from Transfer Express. The kind of ink you choose is going to depend on your design, and what kind of fabric you're printing on. Whoever you get your transfers from, they should help you determine what you need.

Your best bet is to request samples from several companies, and test them all out. 

I would also either re-make the order for the customer or, refund their money. You have alot more to lose than the cost of 1 order if your customer tells every person who sees those shirts how unhappy they are with the end result.

Sometimes it's better to just say to the customer "hey, I don't blame you...I'm not happy with this either...let me make it right"


----------



## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

I make my own with triangle ink and they are softer than direct printed plastisol. I think pressing helps to set the ink into the fabric also. I don't refer to plastisol transfers as heat transfer to the customers. Heat transfer is transfer paper printed on the printer. Plastisol transfer is screen printing. The transfer is just a better way of applying/curing the ink. You gotta sell it...


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Hey Rags, thats a bummer.

here is what i suggest for the future.

have a samples rack with various types of plastisol transfers printed on shirts. 
Then, have your client pick the look and feel they want, because there are different types of plastisol transfers.

Also, before you ship/deliver the goods, take a little extra time to test wash the finished goods.

yeah, i would re-do the job and take the loss but perhaps gain it back with a future order from the client.


----------



## calijimmy (Jul 16, 2007)

-hey rags i was wondering if you told the customer what she was getting in the first place? if you had a sample to show her?
-i've gotten samples from 4-5 different companies and they do feel thicker then actual screen prints.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Hey Rags...

I've had the exact same problem with the F&M transfers, which is why I've done some research and gotton some other transfer samples (Transfer Express, VersaTranz & Ace Transfer)based on recommendations off this forum (there are other suppliers as well). Of the three, I'm going with Ace because of price and I think they had the softest feel of the three (samples from all three were much softer than F&M).

F&M have great color, apply easily, are reasonably priced and are great folks to work with. However, until they are able to find a way to soften up their transfers, I will only be using them for a limited number of jobs.

I agree with all above who suggested that you offer to redo the job or refund the money. I"ve run into the same thing and have refunded the entire cost of the order (not having another plastisol option at the time). It is painful for the moment but the right thing to do to build your business. It's not always the fact that you made a mistake, but rather how you respond to it that is important.

We all make mistakes in the beginning and just need to chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on by doing the right thing for the customer.

Hope that helps....

John


----------



## GRFXARMY (Apr 23, 2007)

I have tried some samples from Dowling Graphics, they seem to feel and look great.


----------



## BillFogarty (Mar 8, 2007)

I would definitely re-do the order for the customer...or if it's too late for what they needed the shirts for, give them a credit for another same-sized order in the future. Also, get samples from as many different suppliers as you can...quality of inks, ease of transferring and feel vary greatly from company-to-company...


----------



## deChez (Nov 10, 2007)

rrc62 said:


> I make my own with triangle ink and they are softer than direct printed plastisol. I think pressing helps to set the ink into the fabric also. I don't refer to plastisol transfers as heat transfer to the customers. Heat transfer is transfer paper printed on the printer. Plastisol transfer is screen printing. The transfer is just a better way of applying/curing the ink. You gotta sell it...


You make a good point with regard to how you refer to the different methods of decorating shirts -- I never refer to plastisol as a transfer medium either. 

When you offer several different methods, it becomes really important to differentiate between them with your terminology.


----------



## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Apperently Rags everyone is saying the same thing that I said in our email. Lou


----------



## rags16 (Jun 12, 2007)

You people have been simply wonderful and it is an absolute privledge to be a part of this forum!!! Thank you so much


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Can you post a pic of the printed shirt?


----------



## dodank (May 4, 2007)

rags16 said:


> Folks,
> 
> last night I full-filled my first large order and it was seemingly a failure...even though I got paid I really took it on the chin. She absolutely hated the transfers and wanted a much softer feel and look. I used plastisol transfers from F&M and they came out with a strong plastic sticky feel. Can someone tell me if there is any way to get a silk screen feel in a heat pres world. I was so embarressed and had no idea that heat press products had such a negative connotation. When she assked me my process and i said heat press...she made such a disappointed face.


RAGS16,

i have never ordered from f&m. when i did try to place an order i could never get a response. glad i didn't now after reading about complaints on forum. i use transfer express and plan on contacting ace trans in the new year. i have only had rave reviews on my orders for screenprinting. i never tell my customers that they are transfer because it's really doesn' t matter because regardless of the way u complete the job they are still screenprinted. the transfers are just a easy and cost effective way for u too make money without the actual equipment. 

keep ur head up and keep it moving, we all have had blooper large and small in the beginning. 

ps. as far as the disappointing face the customer made. they don't know how many companies use the method of transfers. some people just want an out and out way reason to totally complain.


----------



## shane (Mar 28, 2007)

hey rags
i also got transfers from F&M which had a very hard plastic feeling. as i understand(after talking to them and receiving samples) they have several processes, one of them is the 'freedom' process which doesnt limit you with amount of colors and have a minimum order of only 8 transfers, and these transfers have the hard plastic feeling. thats what i got and i am throwing them all away cause i cant sell them. they are worse than a regular opaque transfer paper(for dark garments). they do have other processes which gives you much better results but then you are limited to large quantities (according to number of colors).


----------



## praisehim743 (Oct 30, 2007)

rags16 said:


> Folks,
> 
> last night I full-filled my first large order and it was seemingly a failure...even though I got paid I really took it on the chin. She absolutely hated the transfers and wanted a much softer feel and look. I used plastisol transfers from F&M and they came out with a strong plastic sticky feel. Can someone tell me if there is any way to get a silk screen feel in a heat pres world. I was so embarressed and had no idea that heat press products had such a negative connotation. When she assked me my process and i said heat press...she made such a disappointed face.


 
Hey Rags,

I use ACE Transfer, their turn around time for me is two days, and their work is out standing. I have never had a problem with them at all, in two years of using their transfers. Their prices are very good. The transfers are so soft to the touch. They peel like butter every time. Their screenprinted transfer just flows with the movement of the garments. They do not crack, peel, or fade. The customers I have, say they do not understand how we get our screenprinted shirts to feel so soft, when they have had others screenprinted jobs done, and they have felt so rough to the touch. 

I just smile and say it’s what the screen printer prefers to use. Also, I never tell them I use transfers for their screenprinted jobs. The only time I use the word transfer, is when my customers ask for one of the pro-word transfer design I carry. They will choose a transfer from pr-word, mixed with screenprinted wording to make a design, for their club, school, family reunion, etc…Hope this helps rags, Deb


----------



## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I use Ace Transfer Company for all my transfer needs they are fast ,friendly, and very informative. I suggest you give them a call and I know you will be very happy. ....JB


----------



## brentonchad (Aug 24, 2007)

Is there a difference in the ink used for plastisol transfers and traditional screen printing directly on the garment? From my understanding the plastisol transfer ink is applied by heating up the ink until it becomes a liquid and due to the pressure the ink is placed on the shirt exactly as it was on the transfer paper. Where as screen printing the ink is already in a liquid form and is applied only where the screen is without emulsion and then dried back to a solid state. So the only difference is how the ink is applied - so why would the feel be any different? Or am I way off base on my understanding?

I have just applied my transfers from ACE (which I agree with everyone concerning price and customer service) and I don't know of a client that could tell the difference between these transfers and and an actual screen print.


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

you're spot on Chad.

Now, for litho full color transfers for example, they too contain a plastisol element but are different from spot color plastisol transfers or even 4-color process plastisol transfers.

The thing is various transfer makers specialise in different types of transfers, minimums etc.

It does not mean MF or Ace are one better than the other, it may just mean they specialize in different transfer types.

From what i've read here, it sounds like FM is more of a low minimum FULL color, btw that is quite an achivement since 4-color process (full color) plastisol can get expensive due to industry standard high volume runs.

Where Ace i assume, may specialize in SPOT color plastisol etc... 

Others may have high volume for ALL types of transfers, no matter the job.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Glad to see all the positive feedback on Ace Transfer. I just sent them my first order today....so I guess I'll see!!


----------



## karlking85 (Sep 26, 2007)

I hope to hear something good from you guys on them, it sounds like they have a quality product. I will have to check them out.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

treadhead said:


> Glad to see all the positive feedback on Ace Transfer. I just sent them my first order today....so I guess I'll see!!


UPDATE!

I placed my first order with Ace on Friday (11-23) for 100 1 color designs and received my shipping notification yesterday (11-25). Two business day turnaround....SO FAR...SO GOOD!

John


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

treadhead said:


> UPDATE!
> 
> I placed my first order with Ace on Friday (11-23) for 100 1 color designs and received my shipping notification yesterday (11-25). Two business day turnaround....SO FAR...SO GOOD!
> 
> John


whats the price?


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

stunn said:


> whats the price?


$1.10 per sheet....


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

treadhead said:


> $1.10 per sheet....


not bad........do have all the prices?


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

stunn said:


> not bad........do have all the prices?


PM me and I'll share what I have. You can also go to Ace Transfer Company and order a package that includes samples and pricing.

John


----------



## jlootchy (Sep 12, 2007)

Rags, 
We were just thinking of using *Plastisol Transfer *I'm sorry for your experience. I think it's all about trial and error and making sure you test your product before you pass it on. Try different kinds to find the one that works best for you and your clients. This forum is a good place to learn from the mistakes of others, it also helps you to decide on where to start when you are looking to try something new. I hope you can work things out with your client, you never know this experience can turn out to be a boost for you. It all depends on how you handle a trying situation.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

jlootchy said:


> Rags,
> We were just thinking of using *Plastisol Transfer *I'm sorry for your experience. I think it's all about trial and error and making sure you test your product before you pass it on. Try different kinds to find the one that works best for you and your clients. This forum is a good place to learn from the mistakes of others, it also helps you to decide on where to start when you are looking to try something new. I hope you can work things out with your client, you never know this experience can turn out to be a boost for you. It all depends on how you handle a trying situation.


Amen....Jay!


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

treadhead said:


> PM me and I'll share what I have. You can also go to Ace Transfer Company and order a package that includes samples and pricing.
> 
> John


They also post their pricing on the website.


----------



## karlking85 (Sep 26, 2007)

Haha, but I thought you had to know a secret pass code to get in.  lol


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

karlking85 said:


> Haha, but I thought you had to know a secret pass code to get in.  lol


X2
i just saw it


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

whats a gang sheet? do they have a set up charge? how much?


----------



## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

I Belive A Gang Sheet Is When You Have More Than One Image On One Sheel Like Multiples


----------



## praisehim743 (Oct 30, 2007)

You would use a Large Gang sheet… like for a 11 x 11 size designs for the back of a shirt, and one -two small designs that or the same but just smaller. 

I use the Large Gang for back of t-shirt design, with two-heart design, I use one heart for shirt and the other for hats or coke huggers etc. That is if the custom wants that. 

Gang sheets that or 2-4 different designs. That is where you have a design for the back of the shirt and a heart design that is different all together, or say you have cap designs or just pocket designs. You would use this layout. Because one design is different from the other design. 

I just did 300 hundred shirts with back design and heart, with cap design, I got all three on one sheet –at one color my cost was$ 0.90 a sheet, the back design was a 11 x 11, the heart was 4 x 4 and the cap was a 3 ½ x 3 ½ .


----------



## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Wow Good Job Using Space To Save Some Money


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

cool thanks you guys that helped a lot


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

cool i just read that there is no set up fee or screen fees............that is dam cool


----------



## praisehim743 (Oct 30, 2007)

They do not change me a set up fee. As long as, my artwork is where they do not have to do ANYTHING to it. However, if they do work on the art design they would charge me 20.00 per half hour. They have what is called a “Standard Prints” and “Designer Prints”. If you have to have a Designer print done they will tell you before they start they will give you a quote.


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

do they do bigger transfers?


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

According to their price list .....they do 13X18, also.


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> According to their price list .....they do 13X18, also.


woops did not see that pleya........thanks.............hey have you used them? if so how did u like the transfers?


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

No prob.

Nope, haven't used them.

I haven't done any heat pressing, but Rodney's dairy about it and plastisol transfers has inspired me. So, I'm considering it.

After reading all of the good comments about ACE here, they are on my list of suppliers to try, once I decide on what press I'm getting.


----------



## stunn (Sep 6, 2006)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> No prob.
> 
> Nope, haven't used them.
> 
> ...


cool........how much are you planing to spend on a press? there are some presses on ebay for about 200-300 bucks


----------



## praisehim743 (Oct 30, 2007)

Stunn hi,

I use ACE for my transfers, all the time. I have never had a problem with there work in the 2 ½ years that I have used them. There transfers peel like butter, and they or so…soft to the touch. The design moves very well with the garment and it is not heavy. My customer likes what they get. In my eyes, if it where not for ACE I would not be who I am today in my business. I am a home based business in a 12 x 32; I have to prove my work and myself each time I do a job. I had lost hope for a while in using one other printer, until I found out about ACE. When I went with ACE. That is when I started getting recognize for the screenprinted work that I put out. I am just 3 years old in the business and there is a lot I do not know. Nevertheless, one thing I do know, that is ACE is all about working with and for their customers.


----------



## karlking85 (Sep 26, 2007)

Thank you Debbie, I am pretty anxious to try them myself, they sound like a great company, and very reliable. .


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Ok...finished up our fist order using 1 color Ace Transfers.

THEY ARE AWESOME!!!!

Very soft to the touch (can hardly feel them if you close your eyes) and very easy to apply! We got 100 sheets delivered to us (in our hands) in 4 days (ordered last Friday). Not sure if I can expect that for every order but not bad for our first order. If I can get this kind of quality delivered to me within 1 week from my order...I'll be very happy.

I've got another order coming in next week with 3 colors so we'll see how that one goes next.

I wish they could do color gradients though.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

praisehim743 said:


> Stunn hi,
> 
> I use ACE for my transfers, all the time. I have never had a problem with there work in the 2 ½ years that I have used them. There transfers peel like butter, and they or so…soft to the touch. The design moves very well with the garment and it is not heavy. My customer likes what they get. In my eyes, if it where not for ACE I would not be who I am today in my business. I am a home based business in a 12 x 32; I have to prove my work and myself each time I do a job. I had lost hope for a while in using one other printer, until I found out about ACE. When I went with ACE. That is when I started getting recognize for the screenprinted work that I put out. I am just 3 years old in the business and there is a lot I do not know. Nevertheless, one thing I do know, that is ACE is all about working with and for their customers.


Hey Deb...

This is exactly what I am hoping for with our decision to go with ACE. They are more expensive than the contract screnprinter I use but they are soooo much softer and a much higher quality product. I'd love to pull most of our work in-house using plastisol transfers. 

If we can get the same kind of recognition with these as you have, then the extra cost will be more than worth it.

Have you ever used them on a design that has any color gradients in it?

Thanks!!

John


----------



## praisehim743 (Oct 30, 2007)

No what does it initial. What will the design look like after it is made?


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

praisehim743 said:


> No what does it initial. What will the design look like after it is made?


Huh? LOL

Maybe it's just getting late...but you lost me.


----------



## hiGH (Jan 25, 2007)

treadhead said:


> Huh? LOL
> 
> Maybe it's just getting late...but you lost me.


I think she wants to know what the final product will look like.. a pic maybe?


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

hiGH said:


> I think she wants to know what the final product will look like.. a pic maybe?


Ok...LOL

I will try to post one tomorrow when I get to the store.

John


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> They also post their pricing on the website.


Yeah...DUH!!! I forgot about that!!


----------

