# Best Place to by Dye Sub Equipment...



## RedEye (Aug 18, 2006)

I am looking at getting a dye sub setup.

I want to get atleast a Epson 4800 sytem or a 7800 if I can afford it.

I have a 15x15 Hix press now, so I don't NEED a press, although a larger one would be nice.

I'm looking for the best (ie. least expensive) place to buy the equipment. I am familiar with dye sub, I have been outsourcing my transfer printing and would like to start printing them inhouse now.

I do 99% apparel, if it matters.

Are the extras that Conde includes in their packages worth buying a package deal? Or should I look places and buy everything seperate?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

thank you.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*

Hi Steve,

Check around and compare the different distributors. I know price is important, but Support after the sale is THE MOST IMPORTANT part. I know this because I had a retail shop and did sublimation. I went through the learning process. Ask a lot of questions, and get a feel for how much the company knows about sublimation. Do some research online and learn a bit about the process, so you can ask or follow-up detailed questions. Is the company just SELLING equipment, or are they interested in supporting you after the sale, so that you can be successful with the equipment. If you get the equipment for free, and can not use it successfully, the price meant nothing. That situation frustrates me to no end. I really believe that sublimation is a great process, and people can be really successful with it. But, many many people get into it, run into problems, have no-one to turn to, and give it up. 

Sorry...I will get off my soap box now.

Kevin Lumberg


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## imadork (Aug 7, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*

I got the Epson 4800 and I'm runing the MultiRip software to do Dye Sub, Light & Dark Transfers, Film Positives and Posters. It's amazing! I got a great deal on the Epson from a local screen printing shop (http://leessupply.com). I got the MultiRip and my Inks and paper from The Paper Ranch (http://thepaperranch.com). They also offer FREE training! I just got back from the training and it was well worth it.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



imadork said:


> I got the Epson 4800 and I'm runing the MultiRip software to do Dye Sub, Light & Dark Transfers, Film Positives and Posters. It's amazing! I got a great deal on the Epson from a local screen printing shop (http://leessupply.com). I got the MultiRip and my Inks and paper from The Paper Ranch (http://thepaperranch.com). They also offer FREE training! I just got back from the training and it was well worth it.


What do you mean by "posters"? Do you print them with MultiInk on regular paper?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*

Hey Steve,
I bought my 4800, MultiRip and the Ink from The Paper Ranch. I'm running DyeSub on the left and MultiInk on the right, and have the capability to do film positives for screen printing, but am currently using another printer for that. The Paper Ranch is a really good company, and provide great service at good prices. Conde only sells ArTainium, so that could be a factor.

I have a Hix 15x15 clamshell and a Hix 16x20 swingman. I always use the swingman for DyeSubbing shirts, because is puts and even amount of pressure from front to back, unlike the clamshells. And the 16x20 allows you to do full backs and fronts, so I'd recommend the big one for the jerseys you are doing. You also need a 16x20 to do towels. I think they are 11x18, and you won't be able to do a whole towel with the 15x15. I bought my presses from Reese Supply company who has a local warehouse near me.

If you have any other questions, let me know. I've seen how you do business in your area and really respect what you do. Keep up the good work man!

Rusty
Jaxx Shirts


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## acemetaldrv (Sep 19, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



imadork said:


> I got the Epson 4800 and I'm runing the MultiRip software to do Dye Sub, Light & Dark Transfers, Film Positives and Posters.
> 
> Yeoh Butch!
> 
> ...


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## imadork (Aug 7, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



acemetaldrv said:


> Is it the printer equipped with Sublimation ink that you use to dye-sub, Light and Dark transfers etc., or is it the Software that makes the difference?
> 
> I getting confused since what i know about the sublimation printer is, it can only be printed on polys and poly-cotton shirts. or maybe sublimation is expensive to print on tranfers.
> 
> Thanks



The Epson 4800 takes 8 ink cartriges. I put in 4 transfer inks (CMYK) and 4 Dye Sub Inks (CMYK). The MultiRip Software is basically a glorified print driver that configures the printer to print with only the 4 inks that you need for the job. 

So, if I'm printing Dye Sub, I put in the Dye Sub paper and tell the printer via MultiRip that I want to print Dye Sub. It then intelligently only uses those 4 Dye Sub Inks to print the job. 

The same is true for Transfers and everything else. I use the transfer ink to print everything except dye sub. Transfer ink is cheap and work well only other things. 

Dye sub does need to be on polly or poly-cotton but that's after I print. 

Check out the website here: MultiRIP Screen Printing, Sublimation, Transfers, Photograph and General Printing RIP Software. You can purchase it from The Paper Ranch. They will also train you for FREE and provide great phone support.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*

You need to be aware that with the 4800 set up in a Dual/Hybrid configuration, you need to be in a balanced usage. If you do one side the majority of the time, the printer will still use ink from the other side when you do cleanings. Also, the printers have an Auto-refresh, that will consume some ink from the side not being used. In my opinion it is still better to have two dedicated printers.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*




jpkevin said:


> You need to be aware that with the 4800 set up in a Dual/Hybrid configuration, you need to be in a balanced usage. If you do one side the majority of the time, the printer will still use ink from the other side when you do cleanings. Also, the printers have an Auto-refresh, that will consume some ink from the side not being used. In my opinion it is still better to have two dedicated printers.


 
Kevin is absolutely right about the cleaning cycles. All Epson printers have automatic cleaning cycles built into the firmware of the printer. No RIP or printing software can control this. This is something that also affects the dtg machines that are based off of an Epson printer.

However, this is where I disagree with Kevin. Purchasing two printers is not necessarily any better (if not even worse). Now you have two printers that are going to run automatic cleaning cycles at the similar rate that you would with one machine because you are still producing the same amount of of shirts. However, the two machine setup will have you using 8 cartridges of the expensive dye sub ink and that will cost you more money in the long term. You also do not want to turn your machine off and on as it will do an automatic head cleaning (which uses more ink than a maintenance cycle) during the start up. So, I always recommend people to leave their printer on and put it on a battery backup so if the power goes down, it does not turn off. The printer will go into hibernation mode if it is not being used and when it wakes up, it does not do an automatic cleaning.

This also does not take into account that you are going to have almost twice the investment in the equipment for production printers ($2000/each for 4800s = $4,000 or $3000/each for 7800s = $6000), plus 8 cartridges of dye sub ink (SubliJet IQ at $147.50/each or ArTainium at $128.00/each) and your 8 cartridges of heat transfer inks (MultINKs at approximately $60.00/each or ChromaBlast at $110.00/each). You will also have to consider keeping a larger number of inks for backup in your inventory when it gets lower. Finally, you will be running a RIP that gives you better color control as well.

These are my experiences and I am sure others will have their's. I started off with a 1280 dye sub and an R1800 inkjet printer - running bulk systems on both. I am also bias since I am one of the people behind MultiRIP because I got tired of dealing with two printers and two bulk systems. Just a little perspective of where I came from and why I wanted MultiRIP. Best wishes.

Mark


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



jpkevin said:


> You need to be aware that with the 4800 set up in a Dual/Hybrid configuration, you need to be in a balanced usage. If you do one side the majority of the time, the printer will still use ink from the other side when you do cleanings. Also, the printers have an Auto-refresh, that will consume some ink from the side not being used. In my opinion it is still better to have two dedicated printers.


I would disagree with this. Having 2 printers will just mean twice as much ink wasted by cleanings. It doesn't save you any ink.

I have a 4800 Hybrid and use mostly DyeSub. Yes the MultiInk on the other side gets "wasted" too, but it's much cheaper than than DyeSub ink, so I don't really care. And considering you buy it in 110 ml cartridges, its pretty cheap. If I were to buy a separate printer just for MultiInk, which I don't use very often, it would be a huge added expense for no real benefit.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

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So can MultiInk be used for traditional photographs? I assumed it was just for inkjet transfers.


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## imadork (Aug 7, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



rusty said:


> So can MultiInk be used for traditional photographs? I assumed it was just for inkjet transfers.



Yes, it can be used for: 
Screen Printing Film Positives
 Dye Sublimation Transfers
Commercial Inkjet Heat Transfers
 Photographic Printing
 Invoices & General Printing
 And More....​ Check out the MultiRip website for more info...Or, contact The Paper Ranch.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*

Hi Mark,

All are valid points. I just thought that for the discussion it is an important item to be aware of, as it is an issue that would play into a decision. It is best to go into a decision with all of the facts available.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



imadork said:


> Yes, it can be used for:
> Screen Printing Film Positives
> Dye Sublimation Transfers
> Commercial Inkjet Heat Transfers
> ...


I know the MultiInk does not do DyeSub. And I know the 4800 is capable of printing photographs. What I'm wondering is if MultiInk is good for photographs.


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## imadork (Aug 7, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



rusty said:


> I know the MultiInk does not do DyeSub. And I know the 4800 is capable of printing photographs. What I'm wondering is if MultiInk is good for photographs.


Oh, your asking about MultiInk and I'm talking about MultiRip. The MultiRip *does* do *Dye Sub and Photographs*. It also does Screen Printing Film Positives, Commercial Inkjet Heat Transfers, Invoices & General Printing, and more...

Check out the MultiRip website for more info...Or, contact The Paper Ranch.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*

Maybe I can clear some things up. MultINK (which is a industrial dye-based ink made specifically for printing on to fabrics) can be used to print photographs. However, MultINK does not have the archival characteristics that you will find with photo prints from Walgreens,... I have prints from over 2 years ago that still look very good. However, they have not sat in a window with the sun's UV rays beating down on them. So, I am really not sure how long a print will last. Thus, my sales speech when I did onsite production at events was I would put a picture on a shirt (dye sub or inkjet) and would print a photo of the same graphic for $3 - $5 additional. I let the customer know not to leave the print in direct sunlight as well. Most of the customers understand that pictures in the sun never last. The key was I used the same graphic for the shirt as I did for the photo so I did not spend anymore time on the graphic. Just basically changed two settings in MultiRIP (i.e. ink type from sublimation to MultINK and media type to Photo Paper). 

There is a post in the MultiRIP User forum (www.multiripusers.com) that explains how to set this up. If you are a MultiRIP user and don't have access to the forum, then just send me a PM with your company name and I will send your log-in information.

Hope this clarifies things.

Mark


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



imadork said:


> Oh, your asking about MultiInk and I'm talking about MultiRip. The MultiRip *does* do *Dye Sub and Photographs*. It also does Screen Printing Film Positives, Commercial Inkjet Heat Transfers, Invoices & General Printing, and more...
> 
> Check out the MultiRip website for more info...Or, contact The Paper Ranch.


Yes, I know all about MultiRip. I have it and am running it. I'm asking about using Multi*INK* for photographs *.*


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Best Place to by Equipment...*



DAGuide said:


> Maybe I can clear some things up. MultINK (which is a industrial dye-based ink made specifically for printing on to fabrics) can be used to print photographs. However, MultINK does not have the archival characteristics that you will find with photo prints from Walgreens,... I have prints from over 2 years ago that still look very good.


Great. Thanks Mark! Very good to know. So basically we can use MultInk as a general purpose ink, as well as heat transfers.


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## acemetaldrv (Sep 19, 2007)

Thanks guys. this clears my view on the misnomer i have about the two different jobs that can be done by one printer. It's the Printer capability coupled with the MultiRip software that does the trick.

As to my case, I would be investing on another Epson C90 with CISS to print on heat transfer papers. Has anyone used Magic Mix for their CISS? this is one of my options.


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