# Hat Problem: Embroidery looks fuzzy, didn't before, HELP



## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok,

I have a SWF compact 15 color embroidery machine. I love the concept of embroidery, but this machine is the bane of my existence right now. My current problem is with hats.

I came home from a trip, ran several H test patterns until I reset all the tensions on my machine. Then I sewed on one of our white hats, which seem to be of a thicker material and it looked good. When I tried to sew a similar design on one of our blue or black hats (which are thinner, twill hats), the embroidery goes "fuzzy". Meaning that you can see some bobbin thread coming through and the pink thread looks as if it isn't being pulled tight enough to lay down properly. I primarily sew names on these hats and then there is a heart graphic (dakota collectibles) or an agility graphic after it (also Dakota). 

Previously, I have sewed the blue and black and white hats with no trouble and they look nice. Now, I can't for the life of me make any changes in software or in tensions to make these blue and black hats look right.

I'm attaching pictures in hopes that someone has something for me to try. I can tell you the software changes I've tried...if anyone thinks that's important to know...

PLEASE HELP! 

Thank you from a frustrated embroider who is VERY behind!

Sara









Its the name Seigo that I was working on - Lord Nelson and Pirate Jake I did weeks ago and they looked fine









Here it is after making some software adjustments w/different stitches...still the same


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

Have you tied new needles?


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

Buechee said:


> Have you tied new needles?


Thanks for trying Buechee, but alas, yes, I have put in a hat needle, brand new...

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Sara


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

What type of bobbin are you using?


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

Buechee said:


> What type of bobbin are you using?


I'm so new at this, I'm not sure of the answer? It's the one that came with the machine? It's a white bobbin? I did the tension on it too...and cleaned out with compressed air the area where the bobbin sits...

Is that what you wanted to know?

Thanks,
Sara


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## lizd (Jun 20, 2009)

Recheck tension on that needle, recheck thread path, maybe try the sewout with the same thread on a different needle. Try sewout with a different thread/needle. Also, put in a fresh bobbin. Trial and error all the way! I started on a Tajima with no experience and no one to show me how to do it, and stumbled my way through till I had enough figured out to get good, consistent results. It won't take you long if you keep at it  --Liz


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

lizd said:


> Recheck tension on that needle, recheck thread path, maybe try the sewout with the same thread on a different needle. Try sewout with a different thread/needle. Also, put in a fresh bobbin. Trial and error all the way! I started on a Tajima with no experience and no one to show me how to do it, and stumbled my way through till I had enough figured out to get good, consistent results. It won't take you long if you keep at it  --Liz


Thanks Liz for the encouragement! I've had so many problems with it so far that I have learned alot, but I'm very frustrated. I know this will be a good $$ but I'm just burning up days and that is costing me so much $$...

I did try same sewout different thread/needle to the same extent. I reset tensions and added a new bobbin this a.m. Thread path is normal. There seems to be no change. I think I'm just bound to have to accept this....unless someone can tell me what this looks like!

I think it might be a timing issue is all I can think because it's the only thing I don't know how to do and don't understand...



S


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## edward1210 (Nov 7, 2009)

snice00 said:


> Thanks Liz for the encouragement! I've had so many problems with it so far that I have learned alot, but I'm very frustrated. I know this will be a good $$ but I'm just burning up days and that is costing me so much $$...
> 
> I did try same sewout different thread/needle to the same extent. I reset tensions and added a new bobbin this a.m. Thread path is normal. There seems to be no change. I think I'm just bound to have to accept this....unless someone can tell me what this looks like!
> 
> ...


Don't give up, I was in the same position as you, what I did I got the technician in my house to fix the tension and check my machine, is better than be wasting material and money, now my machine is running like new.
Don't give up,


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## lizd (Jun 20, 2009)

I've never had a problem with timing, so don't know much about it, but doesn't something specific usually happen to make the timing get off in the first place? If it was okay for one hat and messed up for the next hat, is that likely to be timing? Maybe the different thicknesses of the hats is at issue. Is there a different needle plate or spacer you usually use for hats that you forgot to use? (I have spacers and diff. needle plate for my Tajima when doing hats that adjusts the needle depth) Maybe something along that line might be why it sewed okay for the thicker hat but not the thinner ones. --Liz


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Do the letters have an edge run? I find that helps reduce letter fuzziness -- gives the satin stitches something to grab onto.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Not totally familiar with your machine. If you have a bobbin case with the little metal finger where the thread comes out, check to see if there is fuzz under the finger. I have a 6 needle machine and that is one of the first things I check when stitching/tension goes crazy. I know that different weights of material can affect stitch quality. Maybe a different stabilizer on the thinner hats might help.


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks all for the comments - I will give the cleaning of the bobbin case another try. 

Liz - I haven't thrown it out the window yet...of course, it's 200lbs...  As to timing...that was the first thing I threw off because I didn't hoop the hat right and it moved and the machine birdnested and it threw it all off....and i just don't understand timing, but apparently all the weird things that are unexplainable are attributed to timing....I'm just hoping that's not it!

My text doesn't have an outline....perhaps I will try it and see if it helps grab.

Also, I did double up the tear away backing to see if building the thickness behind the hat would make these look like the white thicker hat. It seems to have helped a little... As I do have the hat plate on and I don't think I can adjust needle depth...

Thanks again!

Sara


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Since you already have a hat that you probably don't want to sell, can you re-use part of it and run the h-test on the hat? I don't think it's a timing issue, I think it's a tension issue.

I swear at times that these machines were invented by the same person who invented carburators - they are just as tempermental...

Just another suggestion since you mention you made changes to the embroidery file - save each 'version' and add a number or letter to the end of the file name. This way, when you make changes to the machine, you can still compare apples to apples by using the original file. Without using the same file each time, you really don't know if it was the machine changes, software changes or both that are causing the differences.


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## digitizewedo (Nov 2, 2010)

There are several things that can cause this with text , the type of underlay used, if your using an underlay that goes around the edge of the lettering, sometimes this stickes out, you can adjust this by changing the stitch length of the underlay or changing the underlay to another type. The second thing I would recommend is compensation for shrinkage, all fabric shrink or pulls , in the Pulse software you would compensate with the pull comp. 

Frankie


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## twilightdancer (May 26, 2009)

are you using ball point needles?

also- it seems as if your pull comp is too high.....


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

It looks like you have loops in your stitching. This can occur if the fabric deflects down and up or side to side. This happens with hats a lot more than flats. 

It also looks like your stitching is way to thick. Reduce your underlay to nothing and use a satin stitch with a .35 thickness and slow the machine to 500 spm. Use a double or triple stabilizer. From there start adding underlay, single, then double, then zigzag. At some point you will find where things look really good. 

Here are some things other to try. 

Use a sharp point needle, if you are using a ballpoint then switch to a sharp 75/11, if you are using a sharp 75/11 try a sharp 80/12. We use titanium coated. 

Slow down your sewing. We sew caps at 650 spm but we go down to 500 if we have stitching problems. 

Double your stabilizer. We use a thick tearaway on hats. 

Change your underlay. For text like that on a hat we will start with a zigzag underlay and a .35 thickness stitch and a .2 comp. If we have problems we will go to a single run underlay or even none. 

Change which needle the thread is on. Sounds silly but you might have a bad needle or thread tension. 

If none of that works send out the design to a professional digitizer and let them know it is for hats. When you get the file back sew it out and if it looks good then examine the stitching in the file to see what you did different and work on your skills for digitizing. 

General things we have learned over the years are to never skimp on supplies. We use Madeira thread and Magnaglide bobbins. We oil the bobbin hook every 4 hours of operation and do all of the other daily, weekly, monthly oiling and greasing. We use stabilizer that sometimes is really heavy to keep the garment from moving and use temporary tack to hold it in place if we need to. We use solvy when the garment might 'absorb' the thread.

Good luck and report back your findings with pictures.


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

snice00 said:


> I have a SWF compact 15 color embroidery machine. I love the concept of embroidery, but this machine is the bane of my existence right now. My current problem is with hats.


Looks like it has been a few days...how is the battle with caps going?

I have been away from the boards for a while.

In the photos, the text does look like it is a machine setting issue.
Check thread path and make sure thread is going where it should.
Clean the tensioners - remove dust and lint.

Check the tongue where the bobbin thread comes out of case, get a small piece of backing and run the edge under the tongue and remove any build up.
Also clean inside bobbin, under spring etc. 

I know it may sound silly, but check the the bobbin thread is in the case the correct way.
What software are you using?


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok,

Cleaned out bobbin, reset tension. Also, I was told in my file that I created on my Wings software that my density was way too much - I had it set at .16mm, which would be great if it were .16inches. So, I reset to .40mm with a pull comp of .3

I'm sewing w/a new 75/11 needle, vista thread, tear away backing.

It is sewing better but still not the best...what do you all think:


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## scarface1899 (Aug 7, 2008)

Looks to me you have your bobbin in the wrong way.

If you pull the thread out of the bobbin it has to go clockwise. 

Better check this.

Just my 2 cents.


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

scarface1899 said:


> Looks to me you have your bobbin in the wrong way.
> 
> If you pull the thread out of the bobbin it has to go clockwise.
> 
> ...


SCARFACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! I did have my bobbin strung right according to my picture, but it was not turning clockwise! So, I redid it and it seems to be agreeing right now!!!!!! 

Thank you, thank you! Between this little tid bit and the doing the software right, I think I am back on track!

Thank you all very much for your help and comments, I have learned alot!

S


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

Again, I do have one more question - 

I have to do the back of the hats and I thought I could hoop them with a regular hoop but getting them straight and doing it quickly is a huge problem. I've heard fast frames are good and I'm looking at something by hoop tech....but what do ya'll use...what works well for this part of the hat?

Thanks,
Sara


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## twilightdancer (May 26, 2009)

snice00 said:


> Again, I do have one more question -
> 
> I have to do the back of the hats and I thought I could hoop them with a regular hoop but getting them straight and doing it quickly is a huge problem. I've heard fast frames are good and I'm looking at something by hoop tech....but what do ya'll use...what works well for this part of the hat?
> 
> ...


we use a wood plank screwed to a table top that comes out a little bit- about 4" wide.
perfect for hooping the backs of hats. pull on either end of the hat sides, position the hoop, and right before you snap it down- give a little tug towards you at the top of the hat (which will be facing you) 
we just use the regular hoops that came with the Tajima- works great 
good luck!


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

twilightdancer said:


> we use a wood plank screwed to a table top that comes out a little bit- about 4" wide.
> perfect for hooping the backs of hats. pull on either end of the hat sides, position the hoop, and right before you snap it down- give a little tug towards you at the top of the hat (which will be facing you)
> we just use the regular hoops that came with the Tajima- works great
> good luck!


Do you happen to have a picture?

Thanks!

S


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I use fast frames as a last resort... there are some instances where they are the only thing that works but we have more registration problems with them than using regular hoops.

For the back of hats, I just use a regular round frame, either the 12mm or 9mm depending on the size of the design.


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## scarface1899 (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi Snice,

Glad to help you, if you have any questions about embroidery let me know, 15 years gives a lot of headache but also a lot of experience


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

scarface1899 said:


> Hi Snice,
> 
> Glad to help you, if you have any questions about embroidery let me know, 15 years gives a lot of headache but also a lot of experience


Again, thank you! I will keep you on my list of people to ask my insane embroidery questions! I can see where the headaches come from!
S


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Heh, that is why I like the magnaglide bobbins. You can't put them in wrong. If you do the magnet is on the wrong side.


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## snice00 (Mar 4, 2010)

binki said:


> Heh, that is why I like the magnaglide bobbins. You can't put them in wrong. If you do the magnet is on the wrong side.


Now there's a good idea!

S


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## Red Fox (Sep 12, 2010)

if your still there. I had issues like that on caps with certain fonts in Pulse. It is the underlay stitch coming out. I many times on caps remover all the underlay stitch. Then the type sharpens up. 

I have also learned that an h, I , fox test stitch different on hats than flats. So I adjust the tensions on top normally first most of the time after the first cap. You said you had white showin on top, loosen your top thread or tighten bobbin. 

I also found out different color bobbins from same manufacture run different.


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## TomandBunny (Apr 13, 2007)

when we get fuzzy embroidery we change the bobbin holder out and the embroidery cleans right up.


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## MURRAY (Jan 19, 2010)

YOU SHOULD USE A SHARP NEEDLE. UNSTRUCTURED HATS NEED TO BE TOTALLY STABLE. A PIECE OF BACKING 20in LONG AND 4IN WIDE TO GO ROUND WHOLE HAT MAY HELP THAT


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## debbiebouchaud (Jan 17, 2011)

What throat plate are you using for structured hats? 
You should use raised plate on structured hat.
Flat plate on unstructured hat.

Is the bobbin clean? 
Specifically the area where the thread comes out @ the pigtail. If any dust us under that clip it will cause tension issue. I slide a business card under that tab to clean debri.


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## maddog (Jun 15, 2009)

My suggestions.
Get rid of most of the underlay just use central underlay only.....I can see some sticking Out.
INCREASE your backing....use 6 tear away if you have too....2 tear away and a 1.8 cut away would be my guess
reduce your density, thicker is NOT always better.
make sure your width is not set too high in your settings
check to see how your pull compensetion is set.

you will get it.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Hats are always tricky. You would normally use a tearaway backing and backing is only really needed for the sides which are not reinforced. I have found that ensuring that the hat is tightly hooped so that it does not shift and clamped (mine system has clamps to pull it to the rear) with a good needle and proper tension - you will get tight designs. Your photos look as if it was a sligth shifting.


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## lalove (Aug 16, 2007)

Looking at the embroidery stitchout it definitely needs tension adjustment. The thread lies too loosely on the garment which suggests that you need to tighten you top tension


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## rodeodesigns (Feb 4, 2012)

I was having the same problem. The bobbin is in the right place - I was embroidering YELLOW on camo hats - it would show up bobbin threads white and then yellow. I tighten the thread tension then changed some density. I am waiting for a digitizer to complete the logo to see if it is my digitizing. I recently bought a Brother PR1000e embroidery machine...I have not had a single problem until this whole thing. It is strange.

I was thinking...
It could be:
1. Bobbin thread tension loose?
2. Thread Tension loose?
3. My artwork digiziting - it is a long learning curve there!
4. I use PE NEXT DESIGNS software
5. Needles - it is still doing it. I just replaced from 11 to 14...still doing it. 
6. Or the machine does not want to work great this week for me. :-( ha-ha


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## 23putts (Nov 15, 2007)

snice00 said:


> Thanks Liz for the encouragement! I've had so many problems with it so far that I have learned alot, but I'm very frustrated. I know this will be a good $$ but I'm just burning up days and that is costing me so much $$...
> 
> I did try same sewout different thread/needle to the same extent. I reset tensions and added a new bobbin this a.m. Thread path is normal. There seems to be no change. I think I'm just bound to have to accept this....unless someone can tell me what this looks like!
> 
> ...


If your timing is off the hook would be breaking needles. Try a new bobbin case and make sure the bobbin looks like a #6 when inserting into the case. If the bobbin is inserted into the case backwards your machine will sew poorly or not at all.


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