# Which Credit Card Processing Company??



## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Hello all,

Those of you that accept credit cards, which processing company do you use? i.e. Your bank that your company checking account is with or an outside company and why??

We will be a mobile company doing sublimation if that makes a difference..

There are so many options out there and the more I dig into this the more I keep finding and the next one is always cheaper than the first one and now it is starting to get complicated. Or am I making too much of this and just pick one and go??

Thanks
Steve


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## BrianHahn (Dec 29, 2013)

We have tried Paymentech (Chase), Capital Bankcard and Wells Fargo (Clientline).
For all three of these to accept payments through a web portal you need a gateway such as authorize.net (cost of about $80 a month). Between authorize.net and any of the above 3 services it was costing about 3% per transaction on average. All three of these were almost exactly the same cost.
That said, we are switching to Paypal. You don't need authorize.net as Paypal provides the gateway as part of the Pro plan for $30 a month and the transaction rates are .30 + 2.X% depending on your sales volume.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees

Turns out we expect to save quite a bit by going to Paypal. Partly because we won't need the gateway and we already had Paypal payments pro for accepting paypal payments.

Aside from the fees, we have found that if there is a 'suspicious transaction' in a daily batch of captured transactions the providers will hold the entire batch of funds for a week or more. Paypal I believe will just hold the one suspicious transaction. I think Paypal was the right move for us. Do your homework on this decision. Fraud transactions are a big deal and a pain to deal with so always ask what happens when there is a fraudulent transaction.

AMEX is like 3.5% per transaction no matter what I believe. Some of the above will have AMEX included in the batch funding and some will require you to get a separate AMEX account if you want to accept AMEX.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

If you do a lot of business, a merchant account can save you money in the long run on lower fees per transaction and percentage.

If you do not do a large volume, you really can't beat Paypal or Square (if you can get an account with them, we couldn't).


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## proto (Oct 13, 2008)

+1 for Square. Easy to set up, mobile-friendly, no long-term commitment. You will have plenty of other challenges - no reason to spend energy on this one while you are starting up. 

Chris


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## Stefano (Aug 5, 2013)

proto said:


> +1 for Square. Easy to set up, mobile-friendly, no long-term commitment. You will have plenty of other challenges - no reason to spend energy on this one while you are starting up.
> 
> Chris


Unless things changed since I looked at providers, Square didn't have a number you could call if you had issues. Also, I read in forums that people were cut off if they had lots of small charges. I'd check them out carefully to be sure.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

BrianHahn said:


> We have tried Paymentech (Chase), Capital Bankcard and Wells Fargo (Clientline).
> For all three of these to accept payments through a web portal you need a gateway such as authorize.net (cost of about $80 a month). Between authorize.net and any of the above 3 services it was costing about 3% per transaction on average. All three of these were almost exactly the same cost.


If you're doing any volume you should be able to get them to throw in the authorize.net gateway.


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## A1WHITES (Nov 19, 2011)

I have been using square for 2 years with no problem. I have the others in my opinion square is the best.


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## Stefano (Aug 5, 2013)

A1WHITES said:


> I have been using square for 2 years with no problem. I have the others in my opinion square is the best.


Yes, but what if you DO have a problem? Do they provide you with a phone # to call after you set up your account? Do you know what bank is handling the transactions?


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

Been using Paypal for more than ten years. No monthly fee, and they give you a credit card you can use to get your money right away. It's becoming more and more popular as a means of paying for online purchases, and it's more convenient because you don't need to enter all your payment information, shipping address, etc. If a customer doesn't use Paypal, they can enter a credit card number as usual. And when you call for support you will speak to a representative in the US who actually wants to help you resolve your problem, rather than just keep talking until you hang up.


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## macman29681 (May 24, 2013)

tfalk said:


> If you do a lot of business, a merchant account can save you money in the long run on lower fees per transaction and percentage.
> 
> If you do not do a large volume, you really can't beat Paypal or Square (if you can get an account with them, we couldn't).


If you don't mind me asking why couldn't you get an account with square? I have lots of credit problems including student loan issues and they gave me one. I didn't know they declined anyone.


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

Paypal will grow in leaps and bounds in the coming years. Customers will quickly get comfortable with the card reader/smart phone combo, and more large companies are adding paypal to their online payment options.

Easy to sign up, and no merchant account to run ( admittedly offset by slightly higher fees). 
Best of all the money is straight into your account. Fees are deducted at source, so no bill at the end of the month.

The email-able 'Paypal Invoice' facility is useful for online sales.

IMO ideal for mobile sales, because you are paying no account fees or terminal rental for the period when you are not trading.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

They are all ripoffs. The paypal, square, etc are overpriced and the traditional merchant services are scammed. Choose your poisen


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

PatWibble said:


> Paypal will grow in leaps and bounds in the coming years. Customers will quickly get comfortable with the card reader/smart phone combo, and more large companies are adding paypal to their online payment options.
> 
> Easy to sign up, and no merchant account to run ( admittedly offset by slightly higher fees).
> Best of all the money is straight into your account. Fees are deducted at source, so no bill at the end of the month.
> ...


But they aren't a bank and they are not FDIC insured. I wouldn't keep money there. 

I use paypal, but only as a means of payment. I wouldn't store anything there.


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## BrianHahn (Dec 29, 2013)

One of the reasons we initially didn't use Paypal was because we couldn't get a checking account through Paypal linked to our account and they said it would be 3 days to transfer funds to our bank which was a little too long for us. They have a setting that allows you to automatically pull the daily cleared funds to your bank. I have tried this setting and almost all the time the Paypal funds transfer the next day. I have even seen funds transfer same day. I think having a small amount of funds left in the Paypal account is relatively low risk and convenient as so many other vendors and suppliers accept Paypal as payment.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

macman29681 said:


> If you don't mind me asking why couldn't you get an account with square? I have lots of credit problems including student loan issues and they gave me one. I didn't know they declined anyone.


Apparently their 'security system' came to the conclusion that I am not who I say I am. When I sent them an email, they replied that once declined, there was no way for me to ask them to reconsider and they could not or would not tell me why they declined my application. How's that for customer service? At that point, I decided they were not the type of company that I want to do business with.


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

headfirst said:


> But they aren't a bank and they are not FDIC insured. I wouldn't keep money there.
> 
> I use paypal, but only as a means of payment. I wouldn't store anything there.


I wouldn't keep much more than a working float there either. I transfer daily to my bank account. The money shows up by the next day, which is in itself about four days quicker than my banks own card service facility. 
The benefit to me is that the money is instantly available for me to use or transfer accordingly. Most of my online or telephone customers pay by Paypal Invoice, always before I print. The money is straight there, I order garments, ink etc, with what was effectively the customers own money, paying by paypal. I transfer the rest to the bank. Aside from rent and electric, what goes in the bank is pretty much pre tax profit.

When I used the banks own card facility, the time lag between the customer paying and my receiving the money meant that most months I was going into overdraft. Sometimes only for a few days, but I was still accruing charges.

I find it a great way to keep away from bank overdraft, credit card balances, and trade credit.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

BrianHahn said:


> One of the reasons we initially didn't use Paypal was because we couldn't get a checking account through Paypal linked to our account and they said it would be 3 days to transfer funds to our bank


But they will send you a debit card which you can use to access your funds immediately, either for purchases or cash withdrawals from an ATM. (My bank charges $3 for a cash withdrawal with the card, but I take out $400 (the daily maximum) at a time, so it's less than 1%)


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## tippy (May 27, 2014)

Most of my work is through corporate clients so I don't process very many credit cards. Online sales are through PayPal and I have a Square for the occasional in person credit card transaction. If I did any volume by credit card, I would definitely get a "real" merchant account to avoid the excessive transaction fees.


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Ok, here's my choice....

We went with paypal and here's why and what has transpired since then..

Paypal rates are within reason
Paypal is a known symbol
Paypal has a contact phone number

Now for what has transpired since joining them yesterday morning..

When I was trying to set everything up I came across some questions I could not find the answers to so I called twice, spent less than 1 minute on hold for customer service rep. Was transferred to the right area I need to be and the line was answered immediately.

The first call the cust. Service rep answered right away and was very courteous.

The second call she didn't know the answer aske to put me on hold, came back within 2 minutes with the answer and appologized profusely for having to put me on hold for so long to find the answer..

So far so good for paypal but I have yet to actually use it.

Thanks to all for your input!!!!


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## jarrotto (Nov 18, 2013)

I have used paypal here and Square. I prefer square for the next day deposits. Square does indeed have a contact phone number. You first have to search the issue in the support center, if you don't find an answer you get a code and number to call.

I know their support used to be email only..., but The one time I called they had the problem solved in 2 mins.

I personally have had zero issues or complaints about Square so far. It can be discouraging to use either PayPal or Square when you read of other people's nightmares over holding funds, etc. online.

Wish you the best of luck with PayPal here.


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## jeannekay (Mar 19, 2012)

Years ago I went through a true credit card processor. Their percentages were different for every card I took so never knew what I was paying, as well they often added various fees at the end of every month. I had used paypal before that, before they had the mobile card readers and I had to manually enter card numbers, so I went back to that as well I got square and now use it primarily for any cc customers.


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## Megadigitizing (Oct 1, 2014)

Authorize.net is good one. If you are from USA, you could also try Stripe. They are good too. We use both.


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## macman29681 (May 24, 2013)

tfalk said:


> Apparently their 'security system' came to the conclusion that I am not who I say I am. When I sent them an email, they replied that once declined, there was no way for me to ask them to reconsider and they could not or would not tell me why they declined my application. How's that for customer service? At that point, I decided they were not the type of company that I want to do business with.


Wow. That sucks.


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## tshirtbri (Nov 29, 2007)

I used this site....It compares a lot of different processing companies to find the best rates: Compare Credit Card Processing Companies

I ended up using Clearent - A Different Kind of Credit Card Processor and it has saved me a bunch, I used to use worldpay & they were not that great.


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## goodteamworks (Oct 20, 2014)

Sstraley01 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Those of you that accept credit cards, which processing company do you use? i.e. Your bank that your company checking account is with or an outside company and why??
> 
> ...


Hi Steve--

You are correct-- the credit card industry is a web of confusion & unfortunately, I think it is by design. Having been owned my own business and then going into this industry for almost a decade now, I have seen quite a bit of craziness and shady dealings. That said, in order to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, here are a few things that I think you might find helpful:

-- Never sign a contract, that obligates you for any amount of time to that processor, no matter how "cheap" the processor tells you that their pricing is. They reserve the right to raise your fees at anytime, and you have no recourse to get out of your contract, other than pay some sort of early termination fee.

-- For a mobile solution, you should not have to pay any gateway fees, unless you have a need for a virtual terminal or you just like Authorize.net.

-- No one should, with a clear conscience, charge $80 per month for Authorize.net. Most resellers costs start at $10 per month with $.05 per transaction, and a one time $49 set up. I typically charge my costs, except that I charge $15 per month, instead of $10 (since I do need to pay my bills, feed my family, etc.)

-- Your transactions should average somewhere between 1.6% and 2.5%, depending on if you primarily swipe transactions or manually key them in. Square's "Simple pricing" and Paypal's pricing are both overpriced. Their whole sales pitch is "simplicity", but if I could give you a parallel, a grocery store could charge $20 for any item in their store, from a family pack of filet mignon to a bag of frozen corn to a pack of gum. It would be simple to understand that any item you pick up in that store was $20, but for most items, that would not be a good deal for the purchaser. The same principle applies to credit card processing-- companies that have "flat rate" pricing are going to price their transaciton fees well above their own pricing to Visa/Mastercard/Discover. 

Let me know if I can be of any further assistance, Steve! 

Take care,
Nate
803.429.0540
[email protected]


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## MauiCustomTshirt (Mar 26, 2011)

Check out cardfellow.com


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## goodteamworks (Oct 20, 2014)

MauiCustomTshirt said:


> Check out cardfellow.com


Cardfellow is good, as is Merchant Maverick. They tend to recommend some higher profile merchant service providers, & for the most part, objective about the good & bad of processors. 

The best resource is to find some that you know, like, and trust. This can typically be found by talking with other business owner friends with credit card processor relationships. If that is not possible, then these sites are a good starting point.

Best of luck,
Nate


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## Broadcloak (Dec 6, 2012)

I use square for both of my t-shirt businesses and I've only had a single issue that was resolved without incident. However when that issue did arrive, I realized that square doesn't have a phone number listed, so the fix took 3-4 days rather than a few hours as it should have been. I also have paypal accounts and we find the paypal is less user-friendly for our customers and a little more hassle but it allows the versatility of using money that's already stored in paypal accounts. I've also used popmoney and heard good things about direct payments with Dwolla. Has anybody used Dwolla for business purposes?


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## DesignsToSigns (Aug 4, 2007)

I use World Pay it might also be cause I sell it as well... LOL


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## Broadcloak (Dec 6, 2012)

I've never heard of World Pay, what are the rates?


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## StarDesigns (Aug 4, 2013)

Nate,

Do you work for a credit card processor? You kinda sound like one. Lol. Until January this year, I owned a convenience store and Subway for over 20 years. I have had hundreds of calls, visits, and evaluations from CC processors and just from drawing a conclusion from my experience, all of these companies are deceptive in their practices. They want you to focus on the Rate per card only and ignore the swipe fees and other charges. Much like in the illustration you used, a grocery store where everything is $20. For your purpose this "proved" you should choose a processor solely based on the % rate per card and ignore places like Square who have slightly higher rated but no other hidden charges or
Fees. You point out that if the standard CC processor owned the store the price of the item would be less than $20. What you failed to acknowledge was if this store were owned by a standard CC processor first there would be a fee to enter the store, you need a buggy? Fee. When you get to the register and pay for the item you notice that each time the clerk scans it there is a charge of 10 cents. The clerks tells you, it's just a standard swipe fee. Now to get the actual percentage rate you are paying you MUST include all these fees. 

When I sold my c-store and Subway I had been screen printing for about four years and I was finally able to open up a new shop with all my equipment and a retail space! One of the things I knew I was going to have to do was get a credit card processor. (Only thing worse is buying a car, IMO). I opened up my files from my CC processors over the past 7 years and added everything up. Some months I was effectively paying 2.5% others it was 3-3.5%! Over the entire 7 years the effective rate was 2,7%. I ran to Square! A company that gives you a price that is firm and fair. If For some reason I don't use it there is no charge (this doesn't happen but nice to know I'm not locked in), the equipment is free or cheap (I use an iPad which was an old one I never used with the Square stand $100). I've been using Square for almost an entire year and I've never regretted it. I have peace of mind in that area of my business. One more plus with Square, if for some reason the internet is out my employees or myself can just pull out our phones and use them to complete the transaction. 

Maybe I'm just rebelling against the established practices. When I opened my new shop I vowed to do things that were right and that made sense, things that were best for me when it came to the business side and things that were best for my customers when it came to the customer experience side. We went with Square, is it a "standard" practice especially for a brick and mortar? No but I believe this rates (when compared to others effective rates) are comparable and I can use them with no worries. Another thing we did that was a bit different was to choose a cell phone over a land line. A lot of people told me that this wouldn't work! It's cheaper, we can text our customers, send pics, use it to update social media pages. When I asked people why it wouldn't work the only answer I got was "you won't be listed in the phone book". That's it! So we put our phone number on everything and everywhere. Challenge every practice in your business even the "standard" practices. Even if you find out after researching for yourself that the "standard" practice is best for your business you will know why. 


Mitchell - Star Designs
Sent from my iPhone using TShirtForums app


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## xfuture (Oct 4, 2014)

I use square. For my store I have an offline credit card checkout. If you have ever ordered from VersaTranz this is a similar system. You enter your card number but it won't be billed until the order is started. 

It's the most economic way. Most banks use Authorize.net which sometimes comes with a monthly fee in addition to what your credit card processor chargers per transaction. 

Another thing I have use is PayPal PayFlow. It allows you to checkout with creditcard or paypal without leaving your shopping cart. 

Hope I was of some help!


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## dial911forme (Sep 22, 2014)

CornerStone Processing! The donate to the American Family Association for every use.


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## A1WHITES (Nov 19, 2011)

I agree with star design. I now have the square stand and cash drawer plus the printer love it. With all that they have I dont think that it can be beat.


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## xfuture (Oct 4, 2014)

@star You will be surprised at how many people are now thinking Square is the new "Standard" it is so popular that even merchant companies are offering mobile readers. 

Square is the next big thing and with the Marketplace they allow you to have. It allows you to have all of your products and prices listed as if you are using a P.O.S machine.


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## BrianHahn (Dec 29, 2013)

It looks like Square is 2.75%. Is there a monthly service fee for Square?
So far with PayPal we have been averaging 2.5%. PayPal has a monthly service fee of $30 that you need to account for as well and American Express costs 3.5%. I see Square does 2.75% on American Express which is a benefit. PayPal also has lower thresholds for lower rates depending on your sales volume.
PayPal is .30 a transaction + a percent whereas Square is just a straight 2.75% I think it depends on your volume, your average transaction dollar amount and how many American Express cards you end up taking. I think if your average sale is low dollar amount, Square may be more advantageous. If your transaction dollar amount is higher, PayPal may be more advantageous. If you take a lot of American Express, Square would be better.

The other thing you need to consider is if you are an online merchant, are you going to accept PayPal regardless? If so, you are going to be paying the $30 PayPal service fee anyway. What helps offset the expensive American Express transactions on PayPal are the 1.8% transactions for a PayPal payment. This is partly how we are able to average the 2.5%.


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## cfree (Oct 26, 2010)

proto said:


> +1 for Square. Easy to set up, mobile-friendly, no long-term commitment. You will have plenty of other challenges - no reason to spend energy on this one while you are starting up.
> 
> Chris


I Totally agree. I've been using square for over a year now and I love it.
The interest rate is just a tad more than most, but not having a monthly fee is key. They also have options to set up a tablet and holder for a more stationary option.

Love Love Love Square.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I like Square......But I am not "keen" on their invoice function (not as detailed as PayPal) or the fact that they do not offer a secure payment link....


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## piratepete92 (May 21, 2011)

I've used paypal, stripe and worldpay. WorldPay charge £20 a month for the processing and gateway, they deal with all the PCI as well. 
Main thing I'd watch out for is just how fast the money can get into your bank. I'm new to paypal, and they keep putting my money on hold for 21 days, which cripples my cashflow. I've stopped using it for invoices now, their % is too high imo. 3.4% I think ... either way, far too much for poor service. Paypal is free for some things, £20 a month for premium. I'd stay away from sing paypal as your sole provider, if I see a website that's only paypal, I just don't bother. Guess I have a grudge.
Stripe is free to set up as a gateway, but charges above 3% for each transaction, and takes a week to transfer to your bank, never had any problems and had this integrated with my invoice software.
WorldPay is £20 a month, this (as far as I'm aware) includes the gateway and merchant account, the fees are 1.something% and go into my account after 3 days. 
In summary, for cashflow - WorldPay, even though it's £20 a month, the percentages are lower and the cost to cashflow is less.
This is my second post on this forum, hope I've helped.


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## BrianHahn (Dec 29, 2013)

Does PayPal put a 21 day hold on all your transactions or just a few that they deem suspicious?


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

BrianHahn said:


> It looks like Square is 2.75%. Is there a monthly service fee for Square?
> So far with PayPal we have been averaging 2.5%. PayPal has a monthly service fee of $30 that you need to account for as well and American Express costs 3.5%. I see Square does 2.75% on American Express which is a benefit. PayPal also has lower thresholds for lower rates depending on your sales volume.
> PayPal is .30 a transaction + a percent whereas Square is just a straight 2.75% I think it depends on your volume, your average transaction dollar amount and how many American Express cards you end up taking. I think if your average sale is low dollar amount, Square may be more advantageous. If your transaction dollar amount is higher, PayPal may be more advantageous. If you take a lot of American Express, Square would be better.
> 
> The other thing you need to consider is if you are an online merchant, are you going to accept PayPal regardless? If so, you are going to be paying the $30 PayPal service fee anyway. What helps offset the expensive American Express transactions on PayPal are the 1.8% transactions for a PayPal payment. This is partly how we are able to average the 2.5%.


There is no monthly PayPal fee _unless_ you sign up for Payments Pro.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees

Neither Payments Standard nor Express Checkout have a monthly fee.

If you do not need to take payments over the phone or hide that you are using PayPal as your card processor, then you probably don't need Payments Pro and its $30 monthly fee.

The percentage and per transaction fees vary by volume, but are the same across all three plans.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I have never had any holds by PayPal but like Square in that I can take credit cards by phone without any monthly fee....


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## piratepete92 (May 21, 2011)

BrianHahn said:


> Does PayPal put a 21 day hold on all your transactions or just a few that they deem suspicious?


They allowed all ebay sales through, and allowed my invoices through for a week, then anything over £100 was stopped until the customer confirmed received the item, which sounds sensible, but a lot of these invoices were for print brokering, and with limited cashflow I needed to access the money to pay my partner printers before passing the printing on to my customer. It looked unprofessional asking customers to email paypal to confirm they trust me, so I just refunded my paypal invoices and asked my customers to bank transfer instead. 

That seemed simple enough, although what paypal actually did in my case, is rather than remove the hold and return the funds from my customers, they continued to hold that money for 21 days, and took the money from my bank to refund my customers. Then 21 days later they deposited the funds into my account. Really confusing, huge cashflow problem. 

Following this, when the funds were finally in my available paypal balance, to reimburse me for funding the refund ... they decided to hold all my withdrawls as I was a "new" (7 month old) account. I'll never use them for anything other than eBay, and I only use them on eBay as I have to. Absolute cretins in my opinion.


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## merchtree (Nov 25, 2012)

Stripe is the way of the future, i currently use paypal though


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't believe Square is an option for ecommerce (it was not when I asked them around a year ago).

Like other folks on this thread, I put credit card processors at least one rung below used car salesmen. At least with used car salesman, you know the price of the car. My merchant fee statements are indecipherable, you have no idea how much you paid.

I only know what I paid when I add up the charges from my bank account.

Card not present (ecommerce) does not qualify for the low rates you see quoted. Our rates are much higher. With more volume, however, you can start to get them down. We are around 2.3% now. Every year or so I go to war for a 0.1% reduction.

Paypal can go as low as 1.9%+$0.3 if you do $100k a month. With negotiation they might go lower still. The tried to get all our credit card business about six months ago, but the price worked out to be about the same and switching always has hiccups. So I used them to get another 0.1% out of my current credit card processor.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

Something else to factor in is dealing with chargebacks. Paypal is much better about not getting stuck with charge backs than credit card processors. For that reason I am considering moving all my business to them.


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## lvprinting (Sep 23, 2014)

I use BrainTree which is owned by Paypal.

https://www.braintreepayments.com/pricing

2.9% and $.30 per transaction. No gateway fees, go monthly fees, nothing else. The first $50k is also fee-free, meaning that I don't get charged the 2.9% + $.30 until I get $50k in transactions through them.

You can also use BrainTree to accept Paypal which is the best of both worlds for those who want to use Paypal.


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## customapparelpro (May 2, 2014)

I use square because i can send invoice via email. That way customers can type in their own card information. They feel more safe that way I guess.


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## Shinebox (Jul 14, 2015)

proto said:


> +1 for Square. Easy to set up, mobile-friendly, no long-term commitment. You will have plenty of other challenges - no reason to spend energy on this one while you are starting up.
> 
> Chris


 
Chris,
I just looked into getting a Square for my shop, you happy with yours?


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