# roland bn-20



## pete219

I was wondering if anyone has purchased the roland bn-20. I know this is a new product and if anyone has one could they tell us how it preforms. I think it has alot of potential for all of us who cant afford the big machines.


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## tfalk

I requested their info packet on it, got it in the mail yesterday. Nothing in the packet on the BN-20, everything is about the larger printer/cutters. Pretty disappointed...


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## theflowerboxx

I can't see where there's a very big market for it. Unless I'm missing something there's not any good printable heat press material for darks and for lights there's JPSS with a regular inkjet printer and pigment inks. Why would this machine be any better is what I am wondering.

Also I picked up a VP-540 in excellent condition for what they want for this machine, I say look around for deals on a bigger machine, they're out there.


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## buttonsHT

Look around and find a deal on an 30" versacamm. Even my Roland rep told me this machine isn't worth it.


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## tommyp324

sounds good


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## signchick

Can you use a versacamm to print transfers for a tshirt? Good ones?


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## cornpopps

I was looking for something to do point of sale with so this product interested me. I was looking at doing stickers , possible mini fat head action wall decals. I mostly do sublimation and Chromablast for white cotton so this may fit in my home business shop nicely. I dont do signs or banners but I would like to see Stahls do Solutions Opaque to fit this printer. I requested a quote from a local vendor and still waiting, thinking of waiting until the Long Beach show to see it in action.


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## scuba_steve2699

The BN-20 will be available at the end of July and pre orders are being taken now. There are many great heat transfer materials that can be printed on them. The market that is being targeted is the garment industry and the kiosk market. If you want an information packet on the BN-20 I would be happy to get you more info. Please email me at steven[USER=108410]@Imprintables[/USER].com


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## theflowerboxx

Steve I've got a VP-540 could you tell me one printable heatpress vinyl that works on darks that even comes close to Thermoflex Plus or Siser's Easyweed?


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## signchick

scuba_steve2699 said:


> The BN-20 will be available at the end of July and pre orders are being taken now. There are many great heat transfer materials that can be printed on them. The market that is being targeted is the garment industry and the kiosk market. If you want an information packet on the BN-20 I would be happy to get you more info. Please email me at [email protected]Imprintables.com



I check the website and could not find them listed. What is the price going to be? Does it use the same ink cartridges as the big VersaCamms? I also have heard that the inkjet and laser transfers have a better look and feel than the Versacamm ones. Is there any truth to that?


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## cornpopps

signchick said:


> I check the website and could not find them listed. What is the price going to be? Does it use the same ink cartridges as the big VersaCamms? I also have heard that the inkjet and laser transfers have a better look and feel than the Versacamm ones. Is there any truth to that?


Here is some info I found on Rolands site w/video
VersaStudio 20" BN-20 Desktop Inkjet Printer/Cutter


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## theflowerboxx

VersaStudio 20" BN-20 Desktop Inkjet Printer/Cutter There's the info from Roland's site, it uses the same inks as the VS series and the retail is $8495.00.


As for the feel compared to inkjet transfer, I used to use for darks, Roland's own brand hearpress material as I found it to be the thinnest with the best "hand" but they changed something and now it's not as nice as it used to be. I got a sample from Specialty Materials a couple days ago and haven't tried it yet. To this day, I haven't found anything acceptable for a large "full back" or "full front" I would be willing to sell on a t-shirt. Now sweatshirts it's not too bad since the shirt itself is thicker.


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## signchick

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if it actually uses the same cartridges as the bigger machines. I know it uses the same ink. My reason for wondering is if the machine becomes the "red headed step child" and gets discontinued it would be nice to know that you could still get ink for it. Also, wonder what the "street price" is going to be compared to the retail...

Thanks for the info on transfers... I am a total newbie so I am just learning about all this stuff!!


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## cornpopps

signchick said:


> Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if it actually uses the same cartridges as the bigger machines. I know it uses the same ink. My reason for wondering is if the machine becomes the "red headed step child" and gets discontinued it would be nice to know that you could still get ink for it. Also, wonder what the "street price" is going to be compared to the retail...
> 
> Thanks for the info on transfers... I am a total newbie so I am just learning about all this stuff!!


It uses the same Eco Sol ink carts but only the 220ml which is the same carts as the bigger printer cutters. It also has the option to use the metallic ink same as the bigger guys which I think is a great option at this price. I found this site that is local to me but have not gotten an official quote but it is listed at 7999.00
Roland VersaStudio BN-20 | Roland Printer-Cutters | Advanced Color Solutions


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## theflowerboxx

I noticed in the specs that the heater is not adjustable, it is set at 95 degrees, which should be fine for heatpress vinyl since most of them say to turn heaters off anyways. But could be a problem with some sign vinyls. As for the metallic, I really don't think it works near as well as they had hoped, there's been many discussions about how it's "big brother", the VS model slows down to a crawl when using metallic and/or white and how they don't work very well on garments. I don't know that personally but that's what I've been told.


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## balerbabe

I put my money down on the BN 20. I got to see it at the Indy trade show. My opinion this machine has been needed for a very long time. A big operation in a desktop but slower. Ok it's not the big machine but it will fit in my already packed workspace. Delivery is not until July. Impritables had a show price for about 8k.


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## signchick

balerbabe said:


> I put my money down on the BN 20. I got to see it at the Indy trade show. My opinion this machine has been needed for a very long time. A big operation in a desktop but slower. Ok it's not the big machine but it will fit in my already packed workspace. Delivery is not until July. Impritables had a show price for about 8k.



What do you plan on using it to do? I think it is a neat machine!!


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## scuba_steve2699

theflowerboxx said:


> Steve I've got a VP-540 could you tell me one printable heatpress vinyl that works on darks that even comes close to Thermoflex Plus or Siser's Easyweed?


David - I like the Eco print and Quickprint materials available. My wife's shop uses them a lot and her customers really like them. I can send you out some samples if you would like.


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## scuba_steve2699

theflowerboxx said:


> I noticed in the specs that the heater is not adjustable, it is set at 95 degrees, which should be fine for heatpress vinyl since most of them say to turn heaters off anyways. But could be a problem with some sign vinyls. As for the metallic, I really don't think it works near as well as they had hoped, there's been many discussions about how it's "big brother", the VS model slows down to a crawl when using metallic and/or white and how they don't work very well on garments. I don't know that personally but that's what I've been told.


I would agree that the heaters being fixed could cause some problems. The metallic will not affect the speed of this unit at all. On the VS 300 and up, the metallic printing will slow the machine down to allow for the layering and to increase drying time. On the BN-20, the speed is set at 10 sqft per hour and will not be affected by the metallic inkset. This slower speed and set temperature should allow for sufficient drying time on sign medias.

Metallic and white are not intended for garment applications. All of the testing I have done with them so far has shown that they will not have any longevity on garments.


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## theflowerboxx

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I would agree that the heaters being fixed could cause some problems. The metallic will not affect the speed of this unit at all. On the VS 300 and up, the metallic printing will slow the machine down to allow for the layering and to increase drying time. On the BN-20, the speed is set at 10 sqft per hour and will not be affected by the metallic inkset. This slower speed and set temperature should allow for sufficient drying time on sign medias.
> 
> Metallic and white are not intended for garment applications. All of the testing I have done with them so far has shown that they will not have any longevity on garments.


 Steve tell me it's not true, 10 sq ft an hour?


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## scuba_steve2699

theflowerboxx said:


> Steve tell me it's not true, 10 sq ft an hour?


Yup, 10sqft an hour.


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## balerbabe

I am going to replace my Roland SX-15, still going to do vinyl buy want to see how the heat transfer material works for clothing.


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## Corel Whisperer

scuba_steve2699 said:


> Yup, 10sqft an hour.


Do you happen to know why this unit is so much slower than the larger ones?


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## scuba_steve2699

Corel Whisperer said:


> Do you happen to know why this unit is so much slower than the larger ones?


The slower speed is to make operation simple and allow for the metallic ink. It is set to print at 1440 x 720 dpi and allow for proper heat curing of the inks. The idea is to make it simple for those who know nothing about large format printing and want to get started in it.


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## Corel Whisperer

scuba_steve2699 said:


> The slower speed is to make operation simple and allow for the metallic ink. It is set to print at 1440 x 720 dpi and allow for proper heat curing of the inks. The idea is to make it simple for those who know nothing about large format printing and want to get started in it.


Thanks, wasn't thinking about the metallic inks!


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## scuba_steve2699

glad to help!


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## protech cnc

good work scuba....you have done your homework on the bn 20.....its the entry level to print and cut.

not super fast but hey....great way to start off.


with the added bonus of metallics....and using ecosol inks


i think this unit will be huge


the release in oz is around august


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## FatKat Printz

tfalk said:


> I requested their info packet on it, got it in the mail yesterday. Nothing in the packet on the BN-20, everything is about the larger printer/cutters. Pretty disappointed...


I just got my packet and it had the BN-20, PM me your address and I can drop it in the mail. It looks really cool, I am concerned about any smells it may cause if its in a smaller place.


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## scuba_steve2699

FatKat Printz said:


> I just got my packet and it had the BN-20, PM me your address and I can drop it in the mail. It looks really cool, I am concerned about any smells it may cause if its in a smaller place.


I have the VS300 in my office and run samples off of it. The room is 10 x 15 and there is no order issue in here. The eco solvent inks really do a great job.


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## theflowerboxx

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I have the VS300 in my office and run samples off of it. The room is 10 x 15 and there is no order issue in here. The eco solvent inks really do a great job.


 I am running a VP-540 in a room about 16x20 and there's no smell. I run it almost all day long and I can't smell anything when I leave the room and come back into it.


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## protech cnc

agreed....no odor issues...unlike the old type solvents which required a ventilated room


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## 8th Day

20"?
Is that just the max print/cut width or the roll width?
Why wouldn't they make it large enough for common sized 24" rolls?


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## theflowerboxx

24" is not common size for printable vinyl. Actually nothing under 30" is. This printer has got to be geared towards the garment printing industry, but I myself would not even consider this machine, it's way too small for the price.


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## protech cnc

the speed of the unit is purely down to the model....it was not intended as a high speed printer but it is a great way to start in the print cut arena.

the price reflects that this is an entry level product


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## 8th Day

theflowerboxx said:


> 24" is not common size for printable vinyl. Actually nothing under 30" is. This printer has got to be geared towards the garment printing industry, but I myself would not even consider this machine, it's way too small for the price.


Yes, but if you're going to be _printing_ sign vinyl you're also going to want to _cut_ sign vinyl (most places in my experience cut cast as much as they print). 20" seems like an odd limitation when 24" would have opened the machine up to so much more. You'll have to get 24" rolls of cast cut off and 30" printable rolls hacked off 50/50 or 66/33... 
The only reason that I can think of is that they didn't want to compete with their 30" machine (but then, they have released 24" and 30" cutters or 54" and 60" printers which are the same difference in size).

Also, why do you think it is geared towards the garment printing industry? $8k is a pretty steep price for the quality of versacamm printed shirts. No, judging from the promotional material this was dreamed up with entry level sign/graphics shops in mind. Apparel printing has always been just something to fill out the list of what a versacamm "can also do", it's never been it's focus (and the quality of versacamm transfers attest to this). It's a sign machine that doesn't make you refer your customers to the screenprinting place down the road when they want matching Ts for that logo you put on their work truck.

...but 20" doesn't make much sense when they would have had many more people flocking to it had it been the versacamm version of their popular GX-24 (including shops that already own a larger versacamm; your small decal work wouldn't need to tie up the large machine). Needing a second machine to cut common cast vinyl rolls really negates the space-saving argument for this machine.


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## scuba_steve2699

THE BN20 is designed for the garment and Kiosk markets where small runs and one offs are the main customer. I do not know why they went with a 20" over a 24" but feel the debate is pretty useless as there are and will be materials for any kind of substrate available in the 20" size. Already the industry is getting media in that size for to keep up with the demand on this printer even though it has not hit the US coast yet!

As for the versacamm having "inferior quality" - I would guess that you are not using a quality substrate or you would see that there are MANY medias out there that give excellent quality prints and have outstanding durability. If you would like some samples of this, please email me and I will send you out some. I am finishing a batch today and tomorrow to send out to various people that have requested them and will have leftovers that I can mail. 

I do think that this new machine will impact our industry and stick by my earlier statement that if you are looking at speed or a certain job that requires a larger media, then go for the VS300, SP300 or an even larger unit. Every shop is slightly different and each has its own target market. Roland simply created a printer cutter that has been continually requested for in the market and is listening to its customers. 

I hope this was not too much of a rant but was meant to help all. 

Thanks!


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## theflowerboxx

Don't get me wrong guys I love Roland, but how does this "fill the gap"? I mean anyone can buy an Epson printer with CISS ink and a cutter that contour cuts for A LOT cheaper price and make just as quality prints as this thing is going to make. Unless there's a revolutionary vinyl coming out that works only with solvent printers.


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## scuba_steve2699

theflowerboxx said:


> Don't get me wrong guys I love Roland, but how does this "fill the gap"? I mean anyone can buy an Epson printer with CISS ink and a cutter that contour cuts for A LOT cheaper price and make just as quality prints as this thing is going to make. Unless there's a revolutionary vinyl coming out that works only with solvent printers.


By "filling the gap" I meant that there is no sub 30" printer cutter in the market at this time. Roland is trying to bridge down to the smaller size. I talk to a lot of people that tell me" I wish there was a smaller desktop size of the VersaCAMM". Every show we hear it over and over. Now they will have their chance!

BTW- did you get the material I sent?


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## theflowerboxx

I got my order that I ordered, no "samples" or anything else from you.


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## scuba_steve2699

David - I will find out why they have not gotten to you yet and get it corrected ASAP!


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## jdoug5170

I am very excited about this new printer/cutter. We attend various race events in our area with a small cargo trailer loaded with equipment. Because of the sometimes harsh rides, we will not put our SP300 into this environment but are hoping the new BN-20 will stand up, as well as take much less, valuable space. We would use this machine on the road to print and cut race numbers, decals, and maybe the apparel transfer. Custom printed windshield banners are good business for us and they are only 5-8" wide.

Also, when not at the track, we print product labels for a few companies...2-3000 at a time and would be great to be able to add metalic into the mix. Speed is a concern for us, but not a huge one as we can set this up and work with the other equipment.

Material size is not a concern either. Our vinyl supplier is great about cutting down rolls for us and we will just adjust what we purchase in wider rolls cut down to use on both machines.

Now, if I could only justify stepping up to a 54" machine as well as the 20" and sell the 30"....we could use bigger if we could afford it.

Doug


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## tdprout

I remember a sample of material for darks by roland last year that had good hand, which is why this machine sparks my interest. Right now I have a Epson printer and GX-24. Using the print and cut technique, sometimes it's off and there is traces of white around the image. Is the VersaStudio easier to do..esp. intricate designs for shirts??


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## cornpopps

scuba_steve2699 said:


> By "filling the gap" I meant that there is no sub 30" printer cutter in the market at this time. Roland is trying to bridge down to the smaller size. I talk to a lot of people that tell me" I wish there was a smaller desktop size of the VersaCAMM". Every show we hear it over and over. Now they will have their chance!
> 
> BTW- did you get the material I sent?


Steve I have received two quotes so far from local vendors, my quote included setup, on such a small printer would you recommend setup on this model? I can see for a larger Versacamm but this is going in my home office next to my PC.


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## scuba_steve2699

cornpopps said:


> Steve I have received two quotes so far from local vendors, my quote included setup, on such a small printer would you recommend setup on this model? I can see for a larger Versacamm but this is going in my home office next to my PC.


The new printer was designed by Roland to be self installed. I am not sure what they are charging you for the installation on site but I would question it. I am sure that they are looking to assist you but also to ensure that they have time to show you all of the materials etc. that they carry. I know I would! 

If you are interested in me doing a comparison or looking it over for you, please send me an email at steven[USER=108410]@Imprintables[/USER].com and I will see if it is legit or not and let you know.


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## protech cnc

depending on the cost....it doesn't hurt to get a run down on the machine.....or do it before you buy it

make it a condition of the sale


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## Lausac

Hi, I've just heard the price in th UK is going to be around the £5,000 mark.


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## protech cnc

that sounds close to the mark


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## Lausac

The sales guy from Grafityp in the UK said that there is a Roland place somewhere in the South of the country where you can go and see it in action. We would like to do posters, labels banners etc as well as the graphics for signs and T shirt transfers, so it's hard to decide whether to go for the bigger Roland machines or the BN desktop model, all of the comments on this thread have helped us in making a decision and it will probably be a larger machine, but because of the higher cost....at a much later date..lol.


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## protech cnc

The Bn20 is an entry level machine....and a little slow.

i would look a the SP 300i..or 540i..good units fast enough without all the whistles and bells...you will probably not use


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## Lausac

Thanks Angelo, We originally wanted to get into poster printing, but a lot of people have put us off with all their talk of colour profiles, calibration nightmares they have had. We have a GX24 we use for all our T shirt vinyl cutting (Thanks to Josh Ellsworth for all his inspirational videos) and we have been asked to produce some signs on foamex with single colour text, so that is our next venture. We have also been asked can we do some printed shaped labels, which we could do if we had a Roland Print & Cut machine. I suppose its the way most businesses have developed over the years, being asked to produce something out of their comfort zone....


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## Corel Whisperer

I think they are targeting the people that had been using the PC-60 and PC-600’s that are now old technology. At just under $9000 US it is priced less than a PC-600 cost when it was released. Where the money is on a unit like this is making the little things, like RC decals and window stickers. 
CW


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## SickPuppy

Is there a new dark print T-shirt material to go along with this printer. I have a SP300 and have not found an acceptable material for darks yet, they all have a heavy hand. If this printer is targeting the T-shirt market it is going to need a better material.

As for the silver ink I would expect that it is going to have the same separation and head clogging issues that white ink currently has.


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## theflowerboxx

SickPuppy PM scubasteve about Imprintable's Eco-Print for darks, it's the best I've found to use. Now don't get me wrong it still has a hand, but it's softer than all the others I've tried.


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## SickPuppy

This is the first time I have heard about eco print for darks it is not on their website, not under that name anyway.


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## theflowerboxx

Digital Print/Cut Media


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## SickPuppy

theflowerboxx said:


> Digital Print/Cut Media


Eco print is not for dark shirts


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## theflowerboxx

Well all I know is Steve sent me a sample of it, and I printed it applied it to dark shirts and I PM'd him with that link I just posted and asked him if that was the stuff and he said yes. So I ordered some yesterday, I haven't recieved it yet, so I can't be 100% certain, but that's what I was told and whatever it was that I used from them is the best dark I've used to date. BTW, why do you say it's not for darks, it says the recommended mask is TTD Evolution Mask, whites/lights vinyl doesn't require mask.


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## theflowerboxx

Here's a link to what I posted earlier http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t160281.html


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## Lausac

I have ordered samples transfer for Dark and Light from Grafityp they both worked ok, a bit of a hand but not as bad as Inkjet Dark (which is like a plastic). I have just found the YOLO site and am considering sending for their sample pack, anyone ever dealt with them?


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## SickPuppy

theflowerboxx said:


> Well all I know is Steve sent me a sample of it, and I printed it applied it to dark shirts and I PM'd him with that link I just posted and asked him if that was the stuff and he said yes. So I ordered some yesterday, I haven't recieved it yet, so I can't be 100% certain, but that's what I was told and whatever it was that I used from them is the best dark I've used to date. BTW, why do you say it's not for darks, it says the recommended mask is TTD Evolution Mask, whites/lights vinyl doesn't require mask.


Ok, I will give it a try. Have you used express print, if so how does it compare to Eco print.


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## scuba_steve2699

Eco print is similar to Express print with a slightly softer hand and is used on dark garments.


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## theflowerboxx

The only bad/wierd part about Eco-Print is they roll it backwards, so when you go to print on it, it will bend up on you and if you're not careful you could have a head strike unless you jog it down about 6 inches but then you lose all of that vinyl.


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## protech cnc

The pc 60 and 600 were very different animals and were not designed as an entry level system but a solution that was not available at the time. 

using thermal ribbons to print ...compared to today's costs, it was frightfully expensive to run...the 600 being better because it used individual cartridges.....They filled a gap.


The BN 20 is an entry level....but what an excellent place to start...as i mentioned, it will not break any speed records but it was never designed too


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## SickPuppy

If it is easy to transport I could live with the slow speed and 20 inch cut/print limitation. I would still be a little leery of the silver ink.


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## dcurtisroland

SickPuppy said:


> If it is easy to transport I could live with the slow speed and 20 inch cut/print limitation. I would still be a little leery of the silver ink.


Sick,
You mentioned earlier about clogging problems like white ink printers experience. The BN-20 has a re-circulation system to keep the ink agitated so it doesn't separate. This eliminates the need to purge the ink lines and keeps the head from clogging.

-Dana


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## SickPuppy

dcurtisroland said:


> Sick,
> You mentioned earlier about clogging problems like white ink printers experience. The BN-20 has a re-circulation system to keep the ink agitated so it doesn't separate. This eliminates the need to purge the ink lines and keeps the head from clogging.
> 
> -Dana


There are DTG printers with white ink recirculation systems and the print head still clog.


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## scuba_steve2699

I can tell you that I have had my VS since last October and have not had any issues with head clogging.


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## SickPuppy

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I can tell you that I have had my VS since last October and have not had any issues with head clogging.


I have a SP-300V and don't have an issue with head clogging but I am not using silver metallic ink.


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## protech cnc

Most people that use Roland ink have very few problems...if any....its when aftermarket stuff is introduced that the drama begins


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## AirspeedPhoto

Just put my deposit in at the Long Beach show today, looks like a great little unit!


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## cornpopps

AirspeedPhoto said:


> Just put my deposit in at the Long Beach show today, looks like a great little unit!


I watched this unit print and cut looks super sweet. Did they say when your unit will be in I know its on back order the Roland Rep told me 3mos.


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## tfalk

I posted above that Roland had sent me the wrong brochure, just wanted to post an update.

I not only received a call from a Roland representative apologizing for the wrong brochure, they also sent me out the correct brochure as well as 2 sample prints. Thanks!


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## scuba_steve2699

we have gone through our first shipment of them and will be receiving our second batch in the next week or so. So far all of our customers have given VERY positive reports on the machine and it seems to be very easy to setup and use. i will be working with several of them over the next couple of weeks and will have one in our booth at the ISS Atlanta show. We do send brochures and sample prints to anyone that would like them so let me know if you want some.


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## Natalia2011

Hey guys

Im interested in buying the bn-20. I have researched it quite a bit but i was hoping i could get some advice/opinions from someone who knows the product well.

I am self employed at the moment and the industry im in at times crosses over with promotional gear. I usually order the promo gear from China. At times i lose some sales as either 1. i cant get them here on time to meet deadline (china lead times + a week or so for airmail delivery) or 2. its too small of an order for china to be interested.

So im in a position where i can buy the machine outright and therefore not lose these sales which all add up.

I am tempted to go for the sp 300i but i feel for what i need it for may be over kill. this is where im hoping i can get some advice.

the machine would not be used daily. as a guide, i will probably do a half dozen heat transfer prints per week (for tshirts), 10sq feet off vinyl sticker prints a week, maybe 1 shofront window decal or vehicle decal a month and the ocassional poster here and there. So not a huge deal of printing. just a couple of days per week to be honest.

so the bn-20 being a slow machine, wont really affect me. what do you guys think? its not like i need to use it all day every day. is th ebn-20 perfect for what i want to do or am i missing much more than just speed with not going for the sp 300i?

other advantage i see with the bn-20 is that it does metallic prints whereas the sp 300i doesnt i think?

im sorry for the novel, i just want to make the right purchase. its a big step for me and im a bit nervous. hoping you can help. 

Thanks in advance.
Natalia


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## Lausac

Hi Natalia
Your situation is very similar to our own, apart from the promotional gear (which we have thought about). We are also thinking of getting a BN20, we did speak to a nice guy at Grafityp and for what you want, it does seem an ideal machine. He did say that although the machine can print metallic, it tends to wash off T shirts quite quickly compared to the other colours of ink. But for signs, promotional gear, labels etc, although it's slow, it would certainly meet your expectations. One thing to consider though, is if your business takes off and you start getting in a lot more work, there will be quite a backlog going through your BN20 machine. I have looked at Sign making forums and the majority of their members think it is a great little machine, but nearly all of them said if they had the choice they would always go for the larger machines to cope with more throughput.

Hope this helps.


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## Natalia2011

Thanks Lausac.
Are you going to buy the bn20?
Its so hard to decide. 
1 part of me says that if i was busy with bn20 i would be very satisfied (and busy as im already busy with my current duties) and then the other half tells me maybe i should consider the larger unit. god 

so from what u said the bn20 does metallic well in the vinyl prints but not on tshirts yes?

what about the rolls of vinyl? is there a wide range of 20 inch rolls or am i going to have to cut it? silly question but if i have to cut them to size is there a helpful tool to do that or is it basically cut with scissors lol? i was hoping i could just feed the roll and keep it simple. 

thanks again


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## Lausac

Hi Natalia
The width of the vinyl was something else the signmakers didn't like. There are companies who will cut it to your desired width (Grafityp) who are selling the machine will do this with all of their colours of vinyl (I believe). The main attraction of this machine has to be the price £7,000 (I think) where as the larger Rolands can be £10,000, £12,000, £22,000 and much higher. I suspect a lot of people will buy one of these to get started in the business, but maybe after a year or two will sell them and move on to the bigger machine. The guy from Grafityp did say there was a place where you could go and watch the machine in action before purchasing it, but I believe it was somewhere down south, a long way from where we live.
I don't know where you are based but the sign expo is in Ireland in October and in Birmingham next January, Roland will have these machines and all the others on show (at great prices) and you can ask the sales reps all the questions that you need, that's what we did at the PW&P show before we bought our kit.

Steve


----------



## beanie357

Saw it at the Baltimore show last week. Printed great like the larger units. But it was..........slow. I was...falling...asleep.....(snore)

It has it's place as a lower priced unit, one off, low numbers,or protype production unit. Does not have the ink configurations the vs line has, but if buying new is your plan, it has good warranty and prints and cuts as well as it's siblings.

Just my opinion.


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## Natalia2011

Hi Beanie
What do you mean by the ink configurations?
And does that apply to the SP 300i also, that it has beeter ink configurstions than the bn-20?

Is it true that the sp 300i cannot print metallics?

God, i dont know what to do


----------



## beanie357

ck the roland factory site. The bn and sp series have limited ink set ups with number of cartridge slots and abilities. when you get into the vs you get the slots needed for all the colors and white and metallic.

However, the white and metallics may not be all they are cracked up to be for heat transfer to garments. The rep chased me down to say they have improved said white and metallics, and was to send me a sample on garments of both. Have not rx'd as of yet from last weeks show.

We may just get into a rhinestone machine next. I have same quandry, but know a vs 30 would "cover the bets", so we probably will head that way. We're still just learniong our neoflex and corel stuff, so maybe 2-3 months on a printer'cutter. Looked at Mimaki as well.

I still think the bn20 has it's place in a shop.


----------



## Natalia2011

i was told by a rep the other day that the bn-20 did whites and metallics , only the sp didnt? 
if that is correct, it may be a bn-20 for me as printing/promo stuff is a side or add on business for me, not the primary business, the printing will form maybe only 10% of my business. But in saying that i want to make sure im not too limited and dont make the wrong decision. god this is hard


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## charles95405

I think...repeat think...that one of the posts said the bn20 printed 10ft per hour...yes hour. I was really interested until that .. Not so now


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## Natalia2011

if you only needed to print say 20 feet per day. is the bn-20 so slow or bad in that sense? job done in 2 hours

thoughts?


----------



## scuba_steve2699

Natalia2011 said:


> if you only needed to print say 20 feet per day. is the bn-20 so slow or bad in that sense? job done in 2 hours
> 
> thoughts?


If your volume is low or your business model is just to provide one offs then this is a great option for you. I have done a couple of installs and will be posting a write up on the BN20 along with some pictures in a few minutes so that everyone can get an idea of what it is like. I will post the link back here once I have it up.


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## scuba_steve2699

Here is an article and review on the BN20 that I just posted with some pictures

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-articles/t165533.html#post983224

Let me know if it helps!


----------



## charles95405

also guess my post should be corrected...I stated I was told the print speed was 10ft per hour. Now I am told it is 10 sq ft per hour.. a difference of course


----------



## Corel Whisperer

charles95405 said:


> also guess my post should be corrected...I stated I was told the print speed was 10ft per hour. Now I am told it is 10 sq ft per hour.. a difference of course


Missing that little "sq" will get you in trouble all the time!


----------



## jwcollect

The BN-20 or the Versacamm is not ideal for decorating t-shirts, their main purpose is for decals, labels, vinyl lettering and signs signs and applications similar to that. There are several other better options to decorate shirts, Sublimation, heat transfer paper - laser or inkjet, DTG, screen printing and heat transfers which you can get from several vendors. You can get a lot of transfers, heat transfer papers, a ricoh sublimation setup for the cost of a BN-20.


----------



## scuba_steve2699

jwcollect said:


> The BN-20 or the Versacamm is not ideal for decorating t-shirts, their main purpose is for decals, labels, vinyl lettering and signs signs and applications similar to that. There are several other better options to decorate shirts, Sublimation, heat transfer paper - laser or inkjet, DTG, screen printing and heat transfers which you can get from several vendors. You can get a lot of transfers, heat transfer papers, a ricoh sublimation setup for the cost of a BN-20.


While you are correct in stating that the BN20 is great at decals etc., it is also great for making garments. I have been using a VersaCAMM for over 6 years now to do just this and can list out over 500 other VersaCAMM users that are doing the same thing. The last two shops I did installs of the BN20 for were excited that they now can produce custom, one off garments in their own shop without any other company assisting. Being able to control the whole process AND add decals etc. to their lineup was a great way to expand business. 

Sublimation - limited to poly garments 
Heat transfer paper - heavy hand, low durability, box around print unless cut
DTG - great option to do garments but more expensive than the BN20 and limited to garments and a few other items
Screen printing - steady standard for the industry but cannot compete on short run, multiple color designs with the BN20
Heat transfers - have to outsource and wait for them to arrive - need to have large orders to keep price down.

There are many ways to make a garment and the BN20 or any VersaCAMM is just another. It is not the end all but it fills a nice space in the market and is doing very well already!


----------



## discoqueen

scuba_steve2699 said:


> While you are correct in stating that the BN20 is great at decals etc., it is also great for making garments. I have been using a VersaCAMM for over 6 years now to do just this and can list out over 500 other VersaCAMM users that are doing the same thing. The last two shops I did installs of the BN20 for were excited that they now can produce custom, one off garments in their own shop without any other company assisting. Being able to control the whole process AND add decals etc. to their lineup was a great way to expand business.
> 
> *Sublimation - limited to poly garments LIGHT COLORS ONLY*
> Heat transfer paper - heavy hand, low durability, box around print unless cut
> DTG - great option to do garments but more expensive than the BN20 and limited to garments and a few other items
> Screen printing - steady standard for the industry but cannot compete on short run, multiple color designs with the BN20
> Heat transfers - have to outsource and wait for them to arrive - need to have large orders to keep price down.
> 
> There are many ways to make a garment and the BN20 or any VersaCAMM is just another. It is not the end all but it fills a nice space in the market and is doing very well already!


Bolding and emphasis mine....
This is exactly why I'm looking at the BN20. I would love to have a large format printer, but currently do no have the room for it. 
The BN20 would allow me to do transfers for dark colored garments, as well as print/cut decals, along with a huge variety of other things.


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## api

In my opinion, JW is absolutely right. While the BN-20 is a wonderful equipment; it is far from ideal for t-shirt decoration. 

Here is why. It is 

1.) very slow (good for one-offs but you cannot make a living from one-offs only)
2.) its transfer media is expensive
3.) the decoration process is labor intensive
4.) the quality of the final product is accepted but questionable (“Iron-on” printed vinyl transfer)

*For light colored, cotton garments - from a business owner’s point of view - the BN-20 is practically useless.* 

A DTG printer is 5-10 times faster, no transfer media is necessary (HeatSoft Transfer material, Polyester Transfer Mask), no cutting, no weeding, no transferring. The final DTG t-shirt has “no hand”, very soft, and the perceived value is high. No “bulletproof vest” feeling, no peeling, cracking. “The DTG is definitely NOT an Iron-on shirt!”

*See this test project:* Family reunion order; 10 pcs. of light t-shirts with one 12” x 12” full color image on the front. Selling price: $15/shirt

*BN-20*

· Time of production: 90 minutes (1 hour for printing 10 images with 10 sqft/hour + 30 extra minutes for cutting, weeding, transferring, heat pressing)

· Materials used: $7/shirt ($3 blank shirt + $4 transfer and masking materials + ink)

· Invoice: $150 + tax (10 x $15 + tax)

· Gross profit: $80 ($150 - $70 for 1.5 hours of work)

· *Productivity: $53/hour*


*DTG*

· Time of production: 15 minutes (10 minutes for printing 10 images + 5 minutes heat pressing them)

· Materials used: $3.70/shirt ($3 blank shirt + $0.70 ink)

· Invoice: $150 + tax (10 x $15)

· Gross profit: $113 ($150 - $37 for 15 minutes of work)

· *Productivity: $452/hour*

The comparison is different with dark or poly-blend garments because in this case the DTG requires pretreatment and white ink but the productivity is still much better than with the BN-20.

*BN-20 advantages:*

· Reasonable price $8500
· No pretreatment on dark garments
· No problem with blend or poly materials
· Vivid, high resolution printed images
· Comfortable Print + Cut function

Dear potential buyer, if you really want this BN-20 toy J and you have no cutter yet, here is my suggestion: 

For $8500 you will receive a Roland cutter (which would be $1750) and a Roland printer (for only $6750). With the fast and reliable cutter you can make good money using apparel vinyl on t-shirts. This will generate enough income to pay for the toy printer. J Or, use the printer for other purposes, like signs, stickers, decals, etc. where the metal ink is usable and the final printed product is not questionable but downright excellent.

Of course this is just my opinion, I can be wrong…


----------



## jwcollect

You are correct but the BN-20 is expensive and you can purchase a lot of other equipment, transfers, etc. with that money. Personally I also don't like the heavy heavy hand when decorating with printed materials from a print/cut machine. 

BTW, I love the versacamm and BN-20 but not for decorating shirts.

thanks


----------



## AirspeedPhoto

Has anyone here used the R-Works software that comes with the BN-20? I just installed it and the program opens but if I try to import an image or use one of the stock clipart ones it comes with, the program crashes??
It won't even let me draw shapes or lines without crashing?


----------



## scuba_steve2699

AirspeedPhoto said:


> Has anyone here used the R-Works software that comes with the BN-20? I just installed it and the program opens but if I try to import an image or use one of the stock clipart ones it comes with, the program crashes??
> It won't even let me draw shapes or lines without crashing?


I toyed around with it on one of the installs for a BN20 but I went quickly back to Corel Draw. It should not be crashing though. Have you tried to see if there is an update or if there is anything you need for different operating systems? I would go to rolanddga.com and use the support wizard to see if there is an update or patch for it.


----------



## AirspeedPhoto

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I toyed around with it on one of the installs for a BN20 but I went quickly back to Corel Draw. It should not be crashing though. Have you tried to see if there is an update or if there is anything you need for different operating systems? I would go to rolanddga.com and use the support wizard to see if there is an update or patch for it.


R-Works doesn't show up on the rolanddga site, they have OnSupport and VersaWorks...
What I'm actually trying to get to is printing the metallic ink. I have Illustrator, imported the metallic swatch library, made something the metallic color and sent it to VersaWorks to print and its not metallic on the output. I even have CYMKmt selected in print options


----------



## dcurtisroland

AirspeedPhoto said:


> R-Works doesn't show up on the rolanddga site, they have OnSupport and VersaWorks...
> What I'm actually trying to get to is printing the metallic ink. I have Illustrator, imported the metallic swatch library, made something the metallic color and sent it to VersaWorks to print and its not metallic on the output. I even have CYMKmt selected in print options


Look next to Special Items on the VersaWorks home screen. If there's a grey rain drop that means VersaWorks recognizes the metallic data. Then choosing Mt->CMYK or CMYKMt will print appropriately. If you are trying to print one of the "RVW-" metallic colors, check "Convert Spot Color" under File Format to access the color library in VersaWorks.

-Dana


----------



## sydneyside

Just like to say. What a great forum. Thanks to all for the info. I am very interested in this machine. As an entry level printer / cutter. I think it has huge potencial. And because it is a desktop machine. And reasonably portable. More so. Size is certainly an issue for me, workshop wise. 10sq ft / hour not really an issue. It Depends on size of images you're printing. You need to get your margins right on your final product. This is geared towards the small printshop / boutique market. And I think it's a useful add on to your business. There are also materials for nylon applications. And there is a huge range of other materials that can be print/cut/applied. Thanks for for all the info again. I agree. For what it is. It is quite dear. But. there is nothing else like it on the market. And I think it will do well.
I'll buy that for a dollar..


----------



## jiffyh64

I own a DTG and It takes longer that 10 minutes to print 10 shirts as 12 by 12 even white shirts atleast it does on mine. Not to mention screwed up shirts. Pre-treatment is time consuming too. I had some hockey jersey (red ones) tranfers done in solutions and they were great I did not think the hand was bad at all. And to be able to do full color outstanding. I know I am VERY interested in this type of machine. As it can do transfers that can be applied to alot more items than just t-shirts and more than just cotton. Just my opinion from an actual DTG user. DTG is not a machine I would buy again. Or atleast not the brand I have now.

April


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## dhearn

I also do DTG and looked at the BN20 but ended up going with the SP300i just so I could do some bigger stuff. But the point is that now I have options. If an order is better accomplished using heat transfers, I can do them. And vice versa.


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## GVE

Do not purchase a BN-20.

Roland does NOT stand behind their products and are not willing to accept the reality that the BN-20 was released before any real-world quality assurance.

I have more but check out this complaint:

Roland DGA BN-20, Irvine, California Complaints, Reviews - BN-20 Versastudio

Jim Day their NW Regional Sales person is a nightmare to work with for end-users AND the reseller here in my state.

I have been promised exchanges, replacements and in the end have nothing as of yet.

The BN-20 was not ready for real world use in a mall kiosk, I know from first-hand experiences. I own two of them!

If you need additional details just shout all in all a horrible designed product (what my reseller has stated).


----------



## Corel Whisperer

GVE said:


> Do not purchase a BN-20.
> 
> Roland does NOT stand behind their products and are not willing to accept the reality that the BN-20 was released before any real-world quality assurance.
> 
> I have more but check out this complaint:
> 
> Roland DGA BN-20, Irvine, California Complaints, Reviews - BN-20 Versastudio
> 
> Jim Day their NW Regional Sales person is a nightmare to work with for end-users AND the reseller here in my state.
> 
> I have been promised exchanges, replacements and in the end have nothing as of yet.
> 
> The BN-20 was not ready for real world use in a mall kiosk, I know from first-hand experiences. I own two of them!
> 
> If you need additional details just shout all in all a horrible designed product (what my reseller has stated).


Sorry to hear you have had a bad experience with your Roland unit. 
I for one have been dealing with Roland products for more than 20 years and have never had major problems and the few things I did run into Roland took care of right away. I have worked with Jim, Dana and many others at Roland over the years and they have always been very helpful and resolved issues in a timely manner. 
I know Dana is a member of the forum and has helped other members with issues. 
I hope your issue is resolved soon. 
CW


----------



## idonaldson

It appears the BN-20 maybe in need of some veteran Cammers to put it through is paces. I love my VP but it is now two generations remove, but a value work horse.


----------



## Corel Whisperer

idonaldson said:


> It appears the BN-20 maybe in need of some veteran Cammers to put it through is paces. I love my VP but it is now two generations remove, but a value work horse.


Ok, send me one and I will test the _____ out of it!


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## idonaldson

I agree - hopefully CW I am in that line at least 1 ahead of you LOL


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## Corel Whisperer

idonaldson said:


> I agree - hopefully CW I am in that line at least 1 ahead of you LOL


 I have to ask...what Roland Equipment are you a "Certified Tech" for?


----------



## idonaldson

sp; vp; vs - actually all the eco-solvents


----------



## Iconify

I really tried to like the BN-20. I saw it last spring in Las Vegas when it debuted at the sign show. It was a pre-production unit but I was kinda sold on it. In fact I actually made the phone call to place an order for one after the Long Beach Show in August. If it had not been for the reseller refusing to honor the show-price due to the popularity of the unit I would own one right now.

Little did he know that he was doing me a huge favor. My frustration over pricing sent me back shopping for options and I decided against Roland (and inkjet) altogether. With all the issues I deal with on the DTG in our extremely low humidity climate here in Vegas I was not looking to fight with another inkjet.

One thing Im surprised to NOT see discussed here is the non-standard sized rolls the BN-20 requires. It will be interesting to see how many suppliers buy in to the 20" requirement of the BN-20.

The other print/cut machine I saw at the Sign Show in Vegas was the Summa DC4sx. At the time it was more of a dream machine, but in the months that followed it started looking more like the machine for ME - Im not here selling it to anyone else. It is kindof a niche machine but in different ways than the BN-20. It's not the fastest, but its faster. Its NOT inkjet so it's output doesn't need to dry before handling.

I have just moved the home business out of the house and made room for the Summa. I also have a Roland cutter, DTG, Embroidery, Sublimation, and Heat Press. The Summa is going to fill the same gaps that the BN-20 was intended to - but its going to open more doors in the meantime.


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## idonaldson

You never said why you asked - was it like a test - open book or do I need to study - I see used cartridges in my sleep LOL


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## Corel Whisperer

idonaldson said:


> You never said why you asked - was it like a test - open book or do I need to study - I see used cartridges in my sleep LOL


Duh! cuz of your sig on da post! 
Just curious.


----------



## idonaldson

LOL - I would have also put certified Corel - but you definitelly would see through that one.


----------



## Corel Whisperer

idonaldson said:


> LOL - I would have also put certified Corel - but you definitelly would see through that one.


I didn't know Corel was still doing that! Let's just keep it that you are "Certifiable" LOL  

This is coming from someone who has a letter from her doctor saying she is internally deranged!  
The exact words were, I had an internal derangement! I just put a little spin on it…messed up my shoulder a few years back. 
Happy Friday!
CW


----------



## Screenanator

After talking to Dana Curtis and Josh Ellsworth the material supply will not be an issue. True as of right now Roland and Imprintables/Stahls are going to be your suppliers. Those companies will carry everything you need to get the highest quality results.

I've been in the industry since 2001. In that time I've seen bought alot of useless stuff. About 6 years ago I really started to get a grasp of where I needed to be headed. In 2008 I pulled the trigger on a Roland VP-540. I had already owned a GX-24 for a few years prior . The GX-24 is what really made our retail and overall sales soar.That being said. We run our VP-540 around 12 hours a day average 6 days a week. Sometimes it goes 24 hours a day for up to 5-6 days straight. It's never let us down and has provided us the flexibility to meet all customers demands. The BN-20 we feel will be a great addition to uor already trusted Roland products. It will allow us to free up the VP-540 for small runs that take up so much valuable time on our 54" machine.But I feel the BN-20 is going to allow us to offer even MORE options to our customers with the metallic ink. I have to admit...I've resisted metallic as a trend. Well...the trend is now becoming the standard. Never before has a compact desktop footprint machine such as the BN-20 offered the flaxibility of metallic. Like it or not...Roland is ahead of the curve and is always forward thinking. Issue and problems will arise as with any leap in technology. But I feel Roland is commited to correcting any issues and moving forward at break neck speed.

The BN-20 is going to open up so many options for the new business owners who can't justify the cost or the space for a machine like a VP-300 or VP-540. Mall kiosks...fairs...motorsports...swim meets...track meets...wrestling tournaments...all these will open up to a creative person equipped with a Roland BN-20 at their disposal.

When we recieve ours I'll be putting it through its paces and really pushing what this machine can do. I'll report back and provide samples of the print quality and give you guys and gals some ideas how to maximize profit and potential with a machine like the BN-20.

Happy printing !


----------



## GVE

I would like to add to this here and I already did add to the comments on my complaint on the aforementioned website; and in the end, my Roland reseller has decided to eat my BN-20's and give me credit towards a VS-300 and a GX-24.

Please consider this closed, but in no way was it Roland that closed it, it was my reseller that has stepped up to the plate and resolved this. Roland will NOT take back the BN-20's nor would they extend the warranty on the BN-20's in an attempt to resolve this without me exchanging the BN-20's.


----------



## Screenanator

GVE said:


> I would like to add to this here and I already did add to the comments on my complaint on the aforementioned website; and in the end, my Roland reseller has decided to eat my BN-20's and give me credit towards a VS-300 and a GX-24.
> 
> Please consider this closed, but in no way was it Roland that closed it, it was my reseller that has stepped up to the plate and resolved this. Roland will NOT take back the BN-20's nor would they extend the warranty on the BN-20's in an attempt to resolve this without me exchanging the BN-20's.


...Did you contacted Dana Curtis?...He's product manager for Roland and on here. I have owned my 2 Roland products for YEARS.. the VP-540 had one issue and John the installer/tech helped me take care of it over the phone immediately. I'm sorry you had a negative experience. And I'm shocked if Roland wouldn't do the right thing.


----------



## GVE

No I did not contact Dana, I got a call from Jim Day this AM stating he wanted to know were things stood and I told him what had transpired over the last few weeks and he then stated it was up to my reseller but he had no problem with the exchange and was going to call my reseller. I then got a call from my reseller an hour or so later stating Roland has told them they will do nothing but an even exchange my two BN-20's for two new BN-20's and further explained that besides that option he'd be willing to basically purchase the two new BN-20's that Roland would send and put my monies paid for the BN-20 towards a VS-300 and a GX-24, and I'd have to come up with an additional sum to offset the higher costs for these two machines. 

Personally, and this is just my belief, my resellers tech had a hell of a time with these BN-20's, I know I was there the whole time, one second one is printing a check nozzle 100%, then he'd hit print again and it would have 60% failure, or no cyan, or no yellow; and this happened on both machines. Another issue was the diameter of the ink carrying hoses, it appears in the BN-20 they used smaller hoses and that could be partial cause but after many hours and still getting the same inconsistent results it just becomes un-managable in a sense.

I believe the BN-20 is subpar, I do not believe my reseller should have had to eat the 2 BN-20's especially when Roland is going to have to send him new units in exchange for the two they are taking back. 

Another thought to ponder is why the BN-20 has it's own warranty, something that has only recently be implemented because when I began researching these units last year the warranty was not exclusive for the BN as it is now. It is also worth noting that the website has diddle about customer expectation promises as it did just months ago. IMO - proof they know the BN-20 was not a production ready machine.

In the end I am ready to move forward and get back to business; my reseller has gained a customer for life as well!


----------



## Pancho

AirspeedPhoto said:


> Just put my deposit in at the Long Beach show today, looks like a great little unit!


Hello, I am thinking of buying this unit for transfers to t-shirts. Just starting business, and my target market is single custom shirts. This machine is much cheaper than DTG, and seems much more versatile. Any experience or opinions you have will be much appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## idonaldson

Cannot be compared to DTG - both have different methodology. It can be used for transfers and yes more versatile as you can load it with sign vinyl and do stickers or very small banners. The vinyl printing machines need weeding - which can be a nightmare for some designs, while DTG can provide some wow effects and no weeding. The BN will allow you to do things tomorrow that was not the intent when 1st purchased. I am sure there are DTG folks who can say the same for machines. I know in my travels I have witnessed a shop custom printing bags with their DTG.


----------



## Pancho

jiffyh64 said:


> I own a DTG and It takes longer that 10 minutes to print 10 shirts as 12 by 12 even white shirts atleast it does on mine. Not to mention screwed up shirts. Pre-treatment is time consuming too. I had some hockey jersey (red ones) tranfers done in solutions and they were great I did not think the hand was bad at all. And to be able to do full color outstanding. I know I am VERY interested in this type of machine. As it can do transfers that can be applied to alot more items than just t-shirts and more than just cotton. Just my opinion from an actual DTG user. DTG is not a machine I would buy again. Or atleast not the brand I have now.
> 
> April


May I ask what machine you bought?


----------



## Pancho

Thanks, do you own a BN20, and if so are you happy? Thanks.


----------



## GVE

Do not waste your money on the BN-20 for heat transfer, it was the most problematic area for me and my two BN-20's, you cannot control the vacuum suction and because of that you cannot produce quality heat transfers


----------



## idonaldson

GVE - did it take you the 2nd one to figure out it was a problematic unit or you were learning the lesson one replacement at a time. Just wondering.


----------



## GVE

I purchased two out of the gate for two different locations.


----------



## idonaldson

The lessons we learn on this journey we call life. I love my VP540.


----------



## Corel Whisperer

GVE said:


> No I did not contact Dana, I got a call from Jim Day this AM stating he wanted to know were things stood and I told him what had transpired over the last few weeks and he then stated it was up to my reseller but he had no problem with the exchange and was going to call my reseller. I then got a call from my reseller an hour or so later stating Roland has told them they will do nothing but an even exchange my two BN-20's for two new BN-20's and further explained that besides that option he'd be willing to basically purchase the two new BN-20's that Roland would send and put my monies paid for the BN-20 towards a VS-300 and a GX-24, and I'd have to come up with an additional sum to offset the higher costs for these two machines.
> 
> Personally, and this is just my belief, my resellers tech had a hell of a time with these BN-20's, I know I was there the whole time, one second one is printing a check nozzle 100%, then he'd hit print again and it would have 60% failure, or no cyan, or no yellow; and this happened on both machines. Another issue was the diameter of the ink carrying hoses, it appears in the BN-20 they used smaller hoses and that could be partial cause but after many hours and still getting the same inconsistent results it just becomes un-managable in a sense.
> 
> I believe the BN-20 is subpar, I do not believe my reseller should have had to eat the 2 BN-20's especially when Roland is going to have to send him new units in exchange for the two they are taking back.
> 
> Another thought to ponder is why the BN-20 has it's own warranty, something that has only recently be implemented because when I began researching these units last year the warranty was not exclusive for the BN as it is now. It is also worth noting that the website has diddle about customer expectation promises as it did just months ago. IMO - proof they know the BN-20 was not a production ready machine.
> 
> In the end I am ready to move forward and get back to business; my reseller has gained a customer for life as well!


Are you the same person that posted on Roland's forum. If so, did you sell the two replacement units or are you returning them as well?


----------



## Pancho

Please help me! I know GVE had a very bad experience with the Roland BN20, and I know the machine is slow, but I am on a budget and like the versatility of the machine. Has anyone out there had a good experience with the BN20? Thanks for any response!


----------



## JonLauren

NEver bought that before


----------



## GVE

Corel Whisperer said:


> Are you the same person that posted on Roland's forum. If so, did you sell the two replacement units or are you returning them as well?


Yes I am the same person.

What I was able to accomplish, with the help of my Roland Reseller, was to basically give the two BN-20's, the new replacements, to my reseller and he is going to get me a VS-300 and a GX-24.

The BN-20 is severely flawed in its design, and I know some folks think that for 8500$ it is what it is, but the simple fact of the matter is that it will end up costing you MEGA-$ to keep a BN-20. The waste ink container @ 70$, the wasted media, specifically the heat transfer material, since you cannot control the vacuum on the BN-20 it has head strike after head strike thoroughly screwing any prints up, then when it attempts to cut you have to screw the blade in so far that the nib rubs all over the media causing tears and peeling. The biggest flaw IMO is the reduced size tubing used in the BN-20, it my opinion is what causes the head to clog repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly. I had to do 11 POWERFUL cleanings in a row to get the check nozzle to print 100%, that is just absurd. Do you realize how much ink that wasted and at 229.99 for a 220ml metallic cartridge, that adds up quickly.

I sent some examples to George @ Roland tech support at my sales rep/tech request to see if he could get them to print accurately on HTM and never heard back from him at all - I think that says a lot.

Lastly, Roland will NOT stand behind this product they will only replace a BN-20 with another worthless BN-20 and leave your reseller holding the "pie", that is just absolutely HORRIBLE of a manufacturer; if they believe in this product they should not make my reseller purchase my two BN-20's and attempt to resell them when they have spent numerous hours working on mine and come to the same conclusion I have - they are severely flawed and should not be purchased unless you plan on using them once in a great while.

PS - According to Roland, the VS models had more issues that the BN-20's when they were released but I havent read/heard that at all.


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## Screenanator

Well...the Roland BN-20 arrived today......we began unpacking it and will set it up Friday and get it running. Can't wait to put it to the test.....


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## Pancho

Screenanator said:


> Well...the Roland BN-20 arrived today......we began unpacking it and will set it up Friday and get it running. Can't wait to put it to the test.....


Please let me know how it goes for you. I am considering buying the machine, and would appreciate any information good or bad. Thanks.


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## Cindylou

We got our BN-20 from GSG in Dallas and we are very pleased. Not only with the machine but the service from Will and Danny at GSG is beyond expectations. We went to Dallas and they both spent so much time with us that you would have thought we were buying a 100,000 machine instead of a 8,000 one. If we ever need any other equipment they will be our source. So - if you are thinking about this machine call them! It doesn't seem slow to us but we are beginners.


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## uliari

i dream with anajet mpower but i am very poor  so i made a jump of faith to the bn-20, in a couple of weeks i will post my first impressions of this toy, i hope bn-20 achieve the expectations


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## justickit

I am now VERY confused about buying the BN-20. I thought this would be the answer I was looking for. Thou I'm not looking for the machine for the T-shrit application, reading some of these posts have been VERY informative. Not good news from Roland about this. 8,500 is a LOT of money and to think how close I got.


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## moosevalley

i am also not sure if i want one or not


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## Big R

I'm going to get one but not sure about the ink. If I go with cmyk can I change to Metallic and a just a wash?

Eco-SOL MAX ink in CMYK or CMYK+Mt (Metallic Silver)


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## SickPuppy

Spend a little more money and get an SP300. Find a good used one. I use mine everyday and love it


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## sydneyside

I have one. And I love it. I've had it for 4 months now. It is used just about every other day. All I can say is. Thankfully I haven't had the problems that some of you guys have. It's a learning curve for sure. Like everything. But for me it's a little goldmine. Print Cut technology is fairly new too me. So for an entry level printer it's great. Roland have got me as a customer for life!! The next step when it gets serviced after 6 month's is to install the new white ink cartridge.


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## Big R

Big R said:


> I'm going to get one but not sure about the ink. If I go with cmyk can I change to Metallic and a just a wash?
> 
> Eco-SOL MAX ink in CMYK or CMYK+Mt (Metallic Silver)


 
Bn-20 $8500
used SP-300V 30 $6500 

I think I've just change my mind. I'm going to see it 8:00am is there anything I should check for?


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## Cali514

Big R said:


> Bn-20 $8500
> used SP-300V 30 $6500
> 
> I think I've just change my mind. I'm going to see it 8:00am is there anything I should check for?


Be careful, the SP300 uses Solvent ink that is pretty toxic, and you won't be able to do shirts.
The new *SP 300i* has the eco-sol inks.

There is a reason there are a lot of SP 300 for sale at this time.


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## scuba_steve2699

Cali514 said:


> Be careful, the SP300 uses Solvent ink that is pretty toxic, and you won't be able to do shirts.
> The new *SP 300i* has the eco-sol inks.
> 
> There is a reason there are a lot of SP 300 for sale at this time.


Not necessarily true - I have an SP300 and it uses Ecosolvent inks - there were many that were installed using this inkset.


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## theflowerboxx

Didn't all "V"'s use Eco-Sol inks?


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## scuba_steve2699

theflowerboxx said:


> Didn't all "V"'s use Eco-Sol inks?


yes they did


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## dcurtisroland

Cali514 said:


> Be careful, the SP300 uses Solvent ink that is pretty toxic, and you won't be able to do shirts.
> The new *SP 300i* has the eco-sol inks.
> 
> There is a reason there are a lot of SP 300 for sale at this time.


This isn't entirely accurate. While there's a remote possibility some SP-300 (non-V's) sold with SOL ink, that ink was discontinued shortly after release and all SP-300s were upgraded to Eco Sol ink and subsequently, EcoSOL MAX. If there is any SOL ink floating around anywhere, it is long expired and no good. The last printer that used SOL ink exclusively was the SC-500. All other Roland devices have been upgraded to Eco SOL MAX inks. 

It is entirely possible that there are a lot of SP-300s out there with 3rd party inks in them which would make this statement correct, but it's not Roland branded solvent ink.

-Dana


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## nystixs

I purchased the bn-20 last week and so far so good.. Excellent print and cut quality.. As far as available media in 20", I purchased 30" media and had my reseller cut the roll into 20" and 10" spools, problem solved.. Will be buying the 50" heat transfer media and cut 20, 20, 10.. Heat pressing tomorrow for the first time.. I watched Roland University videos and 15 second heat press process seams kinda long though.. 

Can anyone give insight on the 15sec press process?


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## sydneyside

Your supplier should have recommended settings for the different medias they supply. Time / temperature / recommended pressure etc. Also if they're selling the BN20 surely they sell roll media at 500mm width? Most vinyl suppliers these days offer that size?


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## Big R

Disappointing day I went to look at the 300 and it turn out to be the old bait and switch. Than I found out the promo for the Bn-20 ended today so I miss out on $1500 of extra stuff. All is cool though I'm going to continuing to do my homework and be ready for the next promo / show special or used 300.


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## scuba_steve2699

Here is an update on the BN20 showing the new print speeds that you can get with Versaworks 4.6. HUGE difference!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqg7CjGpE1w[/media]


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## uliari

Hi, i have this toy, buy, omg ¬¬, i've been using heat-transfer media also printing on it, i've print only 1.80 meters, and this Fu%#@! cartridge says that Yellow and Cyan are on 80%, i notice that plotter waste tons of ink in every stupid clean, is just stupid, every time i turn on the machine a cleaning process take part. I need if you know a way to reduce the amount of wasted ink. Because is very dissapointing that my money goes away because the ink wasted.

The prints are awsome and the speed cutting is ok  i just have the issue with the waste ink


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## jiffyh64

ARe you sure that wasn't the intial fill? I have use mine since Jan. And I think I have printed quite a bit and am still on the same cartridges. I honestly think that is just one of the best things about the versacamm's. If you think you use alot of ink now get a DTG then you will see ALOT of ink go in the drain bottle EVERY time you turn it on and when it does a head cleaning. If I had printed what I print with the versacamm with the DTG I would have used triple at least the ink I have used for the versacamm. I would say wait until you actually have to replace the cartridge to see how how ink you are really using.
April


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## Cindylou

Can you share who cut this for you?


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## 365 xpression

so bn-20 or dtg im pulling my hair out and the hand feel of the bn-20 transfer for tshirts is there a technique to make it softer and not heavy or plastic feel


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## Big R

I ponder that same thought and I'm going with the DTG not the $20k model but the easy T deluxe for under $8k.


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## Corel Whisperer

365 xpression said:


> so bn-20 or dtg im pulling my hair out and the hand feel of the bn-20 transfer for tshirts is there a technique to make it softer and not heavy or plastic feel


There are all kinds of material for this unit. What are you using?


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## vlcnmstr

i realize this is an old thread, but neither approach included the cost of the machine itself. while street price for the bn 20 is about 7500, "street price" for a brother DTG is 20K. more than twice the original investment. and that's only for light colors. and while personally I like the "no hand" feel of DTG, lots of people have no problem at all with the hand of the vinyl transfer of the roland. If I had the money I'd buy both, set up a nice room for them and gloat.... though I am leaning towards a vs300 as you can have white ink and metallic set in the machine at the same time.


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## protech cnc

i agree the VS is a great choice...the SP rage gives great results too is you dont require white or metallic.

the bn 20 although slow is a great place to start though


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## protech cnc

far out...id better check the post before i send....it looks like i typed with two thumbs....excuse the typos


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## vlcnmstr

what about the versacamm 30"? not much more but both white and metallic can be set up at the same time.


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## protech cnc

Great unit....you will love it.

it offers the most


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## Splashes

I've had a BN20 for just over six months and it's great. I don't do large stuff - rather hundreds of bumper stickers, decals, and prints. It doesn't worry me that it's slow - I just set it to do it's thing and then get busy with other work (I do stacks of cut vinyl on tees with the GX24). My media supplier is more than happy to cut the large rolls to fit for me (at no extra cost). I haven't tried it for tees yet. I've been meaning to, but I'm happy with the result I get from my jet pro papers and pigment ink. I will give it a try soon. Don't get put off these. If you have a small space and you produce smaller items with speed not being a major concern, go for it. If you're a little concerend that it could be too small, look at their lease arrangement, which I believe means you can upgrade if you wnat too, and is all tax deductible. Just one more quick note - make sure you're aware of the servicing costs. They can be pretty hefty.


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## Splashes

Oh #*#% , my brain can spell but my fingers sometimes can't!


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## AirspeedPhoto

I've had my BN-20 for a couple years now, runs perfectly with no problems at all. Everyone should have one. It would be nice to do wider format but unless your printing wraps or big window stickers, the 20 inch width is just fine.


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## theflowerboxx

AirspeedPhoto said:


> I've had my BN-20 for a couple years now, runs perfectly with no problems at all. Everyone should have one. It would be nice to do wider format but unless your printing wraps or big window stickers, the 20 inch width is just fine.


Or printing 3' or 4' wide banners, banners are the easiest money made with wide format printers. I've had a 54" printer for close to 4 yrs now and never did my first wrap only because I don't have the space nor the experience in doing them, but I would never think of going with a smaller printer.


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## vlcnmstr

with bumper stickers-- never done them but it's in the back of my mind... what paper do you use? do you laminate them? All I see are reds that fade really quick on bumpers.


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## Splashes

vlcnmstr said:


> with bumper stickers-- never done them but it's in the back of my mind... what paper do you use? do you laminate them? All I see are reds that fade really quick on bumpers.


I use the Avery MP1300 Perfect Print. It's a basic material but looks great when printed. No I don't lamminate - it's a cheap price, high volume item. Here in Australia the sun fades everything, so customers expect it. I've got a green frog decal on my car that has been there for about 8 months now and still looks as fresh as new.


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## Splashes

Also meant to say there's a great profit margin in bumper stickers.


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## ToughJourneyman

theflowerboxx said:


> Don't get me wrong guys I love Roland, but how does this "fill the gap"? I mean anyone can buy an Epson printer with CISS ink and a cutter that contour cuts for A LOT cheaper price and make just as quality prints as this thing is going to make. Unless there's a revolutionary vinyl coming out that works only with solvent printers.



Can you please shed some light on equipments and models that could work for that( Printing heat transfer vinyl and pressing it onto t-shirts). 

Thanks in Advance.


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## Corel Whisperer

ToughJourneyman said:


> Can you please shed some light on equipments and models that could work for that( Printing heat transfer vinyl and pressing it onto t-shirts).
> 
> Thanks in Advance.


There are many here that can help you with this quesion. However you might want to copy and paste this as a new topic so it doesn't get lost in this one about one machine. Just a thought!


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## mykola

What is most useful media for printing on BN-20 for T-Shirt thermal transfer applications?


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## sttbtch

What about the print selections. when you go in to print there are 2 or more for each different type of media how do you know which ones to use to get the best long lasting print


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## scuba_steve2699

sttbtch said:


> What about the print selections. when you go in to print there are 2 or more for each different type of media how do you know which ones to use to get the best long lasting print


It would depend on the media you are working with. Many manufacturers either have custom profiles that you can download or they will tell you which Roland profile to use.


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## sttbtch

scuba_steve2699 said:


> It would depend on the media you are working with. Many manufacturers either have custom profiles that you can download or they will tell you which Roland profile to use.



I contacted one and they told me to download from your site. when I click on the link it takes me to a blank page. I emailed your info department last week and have not gotten a response yet.


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## scuba_steve2699

sttbtch said:


> I contacted one and they told me to download from your site. when I click on the link it takes me to a blank page. I emailed your info department last week and have not gotten a response yet.


shoot me an email with the profile s you need and I will get you a direct link for download

[email protected]


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## sttbtch

scuba_steve2699 said:


> shoot me an email with the profile s you need and I will get you a direct link for download
> 
> [email protected]


Thank you!


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## jwcollect

Hi, 

We are looking into getting print/cut machine and have decided on either a bn-20 or a vs-300. We want to do stickers and t-shirt transfers which would represent 90% of our business. The bn-20 would probably work fine but I don't want to limit us to 20" and future stuff. Do we get the bn-20 or spend the dollars to get the bigger one. 

Another question, when was the bn-20 introduced and are there any rumors about a bn-21?

Thanks


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## SickPuppy

jwcollect said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are looking into getting print/cut machine and have decided on either a bn-20 or a vs-300. We want to do stickers and t-shirt transfers which would represent 90% of our business. The bn-20 would probably work fine but I don't want to limit us to 20" and future stuff. Do we get the bn-20 or spend the dollars to get the bigger one.
> 
> Another question, when was the bn-20 introduced and are there any rumors about a bn-21?
> 
> Thanks


I would go with the SP300, it is better to have the option of using the 30 inch wide vinyl.


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## vlcnmstr

who has had one of these long enough to speak about how the metallic and white really work? clogging problems? durability on clothing? considering getting one but the flak from the DTG folks (yes, i know it's a different animal) has me skittish about anything but cmyk. though I have a small market for being able to print white on substrates. wish they had made this with BOTH white and metallic.
djl


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## sttbtch

I have gone through my first set of cartridges and no clogging so far u have the metallic. It is nice for stickers and the metallic works great on clothing and holds up. I wish I went with the white for car stickers. It was not an avenue I thought I would use when I purchased

Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


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## jwcollect

How's the sipped, does it affect the way you do things? Do you have to run jobs overnight? Do you feel limited by the 20"?

Thanks


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## sttbtch

Sipped? I can run overnight but don't have to. I love that it can run during the day then I also have my vinyl cutter running on basic vinyl work while my flat bed is cutting twill. I can digitize and work on art at the same time. Only limit is the whit ink issue on car/window stickers when wanting a color break by I have just used white calendared vinyl. I have also made phone skins without laminate. I was told I had to have laminate to prevent wear. The echo solvent ink appears not to wear like other inks. I had a skin on my phone for 6 weeks with no wear on the edges and I hand carry my phone everywhere 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


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## vlcnmstr

i was told that the metallic didn't wear well on clothing (i.e t shirts and bags etc) so was leaning to the white... DO wish they would make one with BOTH so I wouldn't have to choose.


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## sttbtch

No it is is one or the other. On the metallic on clothing. On 5 garments we have here 4 still look great the one that looks like crap is one that was wet and left in a ball to dry out side by the pool. At the rate I am going selling product from this machine. I will have it paid off by next year and can get a second with white. I have had mine for 4 months have used 1000.00 worth of producer and have sold 7000.00 worth of printed goods. This is not counting the shirts or sweatshirts or glasses they were placed on

Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


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## scuba_steve2699

Metallic will wear off of the print in about 10 washes or so. It does not bite into the media like the other solvent inks and will eventually wear off.


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## vlcnmstr

Thanks. How does the white ink hold up?


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## scuba_steve2699

vlcnmstr said:


> Thanks. How does the white ink hold up?


White ink is also not intended for heat transfer - you use a white media to print onto for the heat transfer. For sign products it works very well


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## vlcnmstr

thanks. i was told there is a clear transfer material as well and white might be needed on that.

djl


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## scuba_steve2699

vlcnmstr said:


> thanks. i was told there is a clear transfer material as well and white might be needed on that.
> 
> djl


The clear media is intended for white garments only - white ink will over saturate the media and make it useless.


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## sttbtch

Is there a clear that makes a crisp look. All the Ines I have tried have a flat look to it so I end up using reg media with a white background to get a sharp inage

Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


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## scuba_steve2699

sttbtch said:


> Is there a clear that makes a crisp look. All the Ines I have tried have a flat look to it so I end up using reg media with a white background to get a sharp inage
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


There is a clear from us that I think is fairly crisp - have you tried that one yet?


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## sttbtch

scuba_steve2699 said:


> There is a clear from us that I think is fairly crisp - have you tried that one yet?



no not yet they only sent me the white samples that looked nice


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## scuba_steve2699

sttbtch said:


> no not yet they only sent me the white samples that looked nice


Please send me a PM with your address and I will get you a sample of the clear media.


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## 1Koolaid5

I really like the VersaStudio BN20 but the price and the slow printing is holding me back from buying it, I do heat transfer with my small epson printer, should I buy a large epson format printer and use heat transfer paper and use my vinyl cutter to contour cut or invest on the BN20.


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## sttbtch

I just replaced the waste cartridge like it told me to. but the Utility still says the cartridge is still full how do I reset the utility


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## scuba_steve2699

sttbtch said:


> I just replaced the waste cartridge like it told me to. but the Utility still says the cartridge is still full how do I reset the utility


make sure to replace it with the utility open so that it registers the action


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## tanyadoyscher

AirspeedPhoto said:


> Has anyone here used the R-Works software that comes with the BN-20? I just installed it and the program opens but if I try to import an image or use one of the stock clipart ones it comes with, the program crashes??
> It won't even let me draw shapes or lines without crashing?


Try doing and update or re install all together. The last update that occurred for me did not complete properly and I was having this problem. Roland advised to redo the update and the problem was solved.


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## selzler

Can any one tell me what the cost is to do a full color transfer for t-shirts say a 8x10


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## sttbtch

selzler said:


> Can any one tell me what the cost is to do a full color transfer for t-shirts say a 8x10


if you do it right you can get two of that size in one printing. runs about 2-3.00 talking full color bmp. now if it is a vector art in cymk or rgb it would be less


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## Marlon Mc Caulay

Hi guys I have just purchased a 16 x 20 heat press and an Epson wf7010 to start my T-Shirt business here in Trinidad & Tobago, I mainly do flyers, tickets, business cards etc. And I also get jobs for banners, signs, stickers, labels, decals, posters etc. I network with other companies to fill these doers but off late we have been getting shoddy work so a friend of mine has offered to make an investment in me and get a small printer for me so that I can do these jobs in house.

I am looking at the Bn20 since most of the work we do are around that size except for the signs and banners but I have a few questions about this machine reading through this post I got some of them answered but I still have a few more such as media size will I get like 6'' or 4'' rolls for labels for this printer or will I have to get it cut down, also the roll feed can that be adjusted to that size is there any attachments to accommodate rolls as small, how good is the quality for T-Shirts does the transfer feel rubbery does it add wait to the t-shirt how does the prints hold up during washing here in Trinidad people tend to wash with bleach a lot and don’t flow was directions or should I just forget this printer for t-shirts and stay with the Epson wf7010. Which is the best media to use with this printer should I stay with Roland media or does work just as good with other products just as well


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## Marlon Mc Caulay

Ps we also have a 30'' cold laminator a 30'' plotter, a 24 inch transfer tape dispenser witch can be used for laminator paper as well and 8' Mondo Trimmer for pvc, vinyl etc. So the Roland Bn20 will be a great addition to my business and allow me to do more in-house


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## BoydRiver

Did you get a BN20 Marlon?


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## chorn663

tfalk said:


> I requested their info packet on it, got it in the mail yesterday. Nothing in the packet on the BN-20, everything is about the larger printer/cutters. Pretty disappointed...


I just bought one off US Cutter I should be here next week Ill let you know how it goes!


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## MrsShoe

Hi
I am torn between the Roland Versastudio and the Oki white ink A4 (transfer papers).... I can't remember the exact model. 
Any advice would be appreciated


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## BBDee

We have a laser printer and it works great. I have tried the print and cut paper (A4) it does work but is limited. Very thin hard to get the right pressure on the cutting blade. I also looked at the bn20. I love roland, but the bn20 is very slow and not a lot of 20 inch material yet. We went with a mimaki, software is not the simplest but we're comfortable with it now. (1 week) and much cheaper and more versatile. 

White ink. I just stayed away from it. We use white print and cut material no problem. We have an anajet with white ink nothing but problems. (With white ink) 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using T-Shirt Forums


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