# CMYK or RGB for sublimation?



## Lucky7Matt

When I setup my files to be sent off to have my sublimation sheets made, do I set the file up as a RGB file or CMYK? I am wanting to try out S&K and I'm not sure what color profile I should use. Any help?


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## tippy

I use SawGrass Ink and during the installation, they said to use RGB. Works great for me!

Sawgrass Technologies - Installation and Configuration


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## SunState

I use CMYK color mode, mostly because I need spot colors. The only time I use RGB is when I have simple art that needs the RGB blue since it is more brilliant than anything CYMK can produce.


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## twnfinn

SunState said:


> I use CMYK color mode, mostly because I need spot colors. The only time I use RGB is when I have simple art that needs the RGB blue since it is more brilliant than anything CYMK can produce.


What printer and inks you use? I maybe wrong here and if so please correct me but to me using RGB is pointless since the color gamut has a large portion that is not possible to achieve with typical dye sublimation inks (the new neon colors are changing this a little). I have not seen a color gamut chart showing that the achievable sublimation gamut is wider than the CMYK so how do you get a better blue on the product (not on the screen) using RGB?


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## SunState

I'm with you on the whole color gamut thing. 

As far as why RGB is more brilliant, it has to do with RGB being a subtractive color model while CMYK is additive.


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## mgparrish

twnfinn said:


> What printer and inks you use? I maybe wrong here and if so please correct me but to me using RGB is pointless since the color gamut has a large portion that is not possible to achieve with typical dye sublimation inks (the new neon colors are changing this a little). I have not seen a color gamut chart showing that the achievable sublimation gamut is wider than the CMYK so how do you get a better blue on the product (not on the screen) using RGB?


Unless you have a RIP system or using a Postscript printer then use RGB as your workspace.

First of all supplied sublimation profiles are in RGB and inkjet printers are RGB devices and need RGB files. This is per both Adobe and Epson ...

Reference:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?infoType=News&oid=94511&noteoid=92205

*"Optimize your images

*Your image files should be in RGB (red, green, and blue) format. If you saved your images in CMYK (cyan, magenta, yellow, and black) format you will need to convert the files back to RGB before printing them. Your printer software is designed to print from RGB files. For the best results, create your original print files in RGB format. "

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/printing-photoshop1.html

"About desktop printing
Unless you work in a commercial printing company or service bureau, you probably print images to a desktop printer, such as an inkjet, dye sublimation, or laser printer, not to an imagesetter. Photoshop lets you control how your image is printed.
Monitors display images using light, whereas desktop printers reproduce images using inks, dyes, or pigments. For this reason, a desktop printer can’t reproduce all the colors displayed on a monitor. However, by incorporating certain procedures (such as a color management system) into your workflow, you can achieve predictable results when printing your images to a desktop printer. Keep these considerations in mind when working with an image you intend to print:




If your image is in RGB mode, do not convert the document to CMYK mode when printing to a desktop printer. Work entirely in RGB mode. As a rule, desktop printers are configured to accept RGB data and use internal software to convert to CMYK. If you send CMYK data, most desktop printers apply a conversion anyway, with unpredictable results.


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## SunState

I only use CMYK color mode and use a 3110. 

Conde told me to use RGB color mode but I could not get the quality of colors I needed and switched to CMYK. My artwork typically can use 30-50 different colors so it's not simple art and my colors are extremely important.

I never understood why a printer that uses CYMK ink should receive artwork in RGB. I guess it is in the driver software and is technical stuff. All I know is what works for me to give me the quality I need.


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## mgparrish

SunState said:


> I only use CMYK color mode and use a 3110.
> 
> Conde told me to use RGB color mode but I could not get the quality of colors I needed and switched to CMYK. My artwork typically can use 30-50 different colors so it's not simple art and my colors are extremely important.
> 
> I never understood why a printer that uses CYMK ink should receive artwork in RGB. I guess it is in the driver software and is technical stuff. All I know is what works for me to give me the quality I need.


Any photo you use would not be accurate. Spot colors can be made accurate.

You are likely not setting things up correctly with your ICC.

You should read this ...

CMYK & RGB Color Charts - MultiRIP Sublimation, Transfers, Photograph and Direct-to-Garment Printing RIP Softwares

CMYK is for Postscript printers or if you use RIP software (which do the conversion correctly).

http://www.wmich.edu/pci/faculty/Publication/fleming/TAGA 2006 paper_final version.pdf
 
"Most printer technologies are based on CMYK inks (or extensions based on​ “light” versions of C, M and possibly K). Inkjet printers can however be treated​ as either RGB or CMYK devices. When vendor supplied printer driver software​ is used, the inkjet printer is considered to be an RGB device. The user sends the​ device an RGB image and the native printer driver performs the “secret sauce”​ conversion from RGB to CMYK. This is common in photography and designerbased​ workflows. In CMYK workflows, such as in prepress and proofing, the​ user may employ raster image processor (RIP) software and in this instance the​ device is considered to be a CMYK printer. When a printer is used via its own​ printer driver software, it is treated as an RGB device and the same printer when​ using third-party RIP software operates as a CMYK device. The choice of how​ to treat an output device will depend on workflow and configuration of printing​ system hardware and software (Sharma, 2004). In this research we describe the​ relative merits of these two approaches and compare the different color gamuts​and linearization behavior achieved"

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1315593&seqNum=9

http://gicleeofnewengland.com/2011/06/color-mode-rgb-vs-cmyk/

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/printer-rip-57507.html


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## SunState

I don't use photos, I create my own artwork and sublimate it.

I've read article after article year in and year out but it doesn't change the fact that for "me" using CYMK color mode gives me better colors that I can not get in RGB. So all science aside it seems CYMK works just fine.

I have spoken with Wasatch and they also say there is no reason you can not use CYMK color mode with their RIP Software even though most people use RGB.


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## mgparrish

SunState said:


> I don't use photos, I create my own artwork and sublimate it.
> 
> I've read article after article year in and year out but it doesn't change the fact that for "me" using CYMK color mode gives me better colors that I can not get in RGB. So all science aside it seems CYMK works just fine.
> 
> I have spoken with Wasatch and they also say there is no reason you can not use CYMK color mode with their RIP Software even though most people use RGB.


Yes, you can use CMYK with RIP software, that is what I have been saying all the time.  Some RIP software supports both. I have been saying if you use a non postscript printer and don't use a RIP use RGB, so your comment about Wasatch ???? 

I can match color just fine, photos or spot color, even most Pantone._ 

100% sure you were not setup correctly if you can't use RGB_. I have been sublimating since the beginning of it.

My money says since you are doing your artwork, if you were to take corporate artwork were the colors are not subjective_ but objective_ you would see you were way way off. Or if you printed photos. 

I doubt you have any real calibration end to end including your monitor. 

If it works for you great, but just because you do things incorrectly doesn't mean you should advise others to do so.


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## Prescott Press

SunState said:


> I don't use photos, I create my own artwork and sublimate it.
> 
> I've read article after article year in and year out but it doesn't change the fact that for "me" using CYMK color mode gives me better colors that I can not get in RGB. So all science aside it seems CYMK works just fine.
> 
> I have spoken with Wasatch and they also say there is no reason you can not use CYMK color mode with their RIP Software even though most people use RGB.


 There is more than one very large well respected custom dye sub shops that still to this day use CMYK colors. 

The issue with colors is that until you see others work it is hard to judge if your inks/profile truly are the best they can be regardless if you are suing CMYK or RGB. You can, in many cases, tell how well ones ink/profile combination is based solely on their reds and black. Sounds like you have it dialed in for your application - continued success.


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## mgparrish

Prescott Press said:


> There is more than one very large well respected custom dye sub shops that still to this day use CMYK colors.
> 
> The issue with colors is that until you see others work it is hard to judge if your inks/profile truly are the best they can be regardless if you are suing CMYK or RGB. You can, in many cases, tell how well ones ink/profile combination is based solely on their reds and black. Sounds like you have it dialed in for your application - continued success.


And I bet those very large well respected custom dye sub shops use RIPs and large format printers if they are using CMYK. LOL

Seeing others work means nothing without source files and objective color. You have no real reference if the color is true or not, just what you deem to be "good" subjectively. I look at all my colors, not just Red and Black, and compare to _objective_ test source files on a _calibrated_ high end wide gamut monitor.


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## twnfinn

mgparrish said:


> Umm no. Just some information on forums is poor.
> 
> New users need to be able to get accurate information and follow best practice. This isn't nothing I invented. I just quoted all the experts, including ADOBE and EPSON.
> 
> No sublimation dealers suggest using CMYK colors for desktop printers, especially since the profiles are all in RGB  there is consensus on that.
> 
> If you would like to debate that is fine ... however, **I'm** not the topic. LOL


The original question had nothing about desktop sublimation. So sounds like the answer to the original question is that it depends on the profile that the printer uses.


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## mgparrish

twnfinn said:


> The original question had nothing about desktop sublimation. So sounds like the answer to the original question is that it depends on the profile that the printer uses.


The person I responded to mentioned he had a 3100, which is a DESKTOP printer. Even with a large format you need would need a RIP for CMYK or have Postscript native to the printer, that fact doesn't change with desktop sublimation or large format _it is a fact of inkjet sublimation period._ So my statement is relevant to both the original person posting and to the person I directed my comment to.

Rest assured Conde didn't give him a CMYK profile for his Ricoh, and no one supplies a CMYK profile for the desktop, because it would be foolish having a sub $200 printer with a RIP costing over a grand or more. 

Post is here ... http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t383825.html#post2169018

If you can point out who supplies CMYK profiles for straight up use in a printer without a RIP or postscript I would be interested to see that. LOL


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## pisquee

There are some very experienced users on this forum, who really know their stuff and are respected in what they say. 
If someone new comes along and starts spurting out untruths and nonsense as fact and good advice, then surely it is up to the people who do know what they are talking about to call them on it, and point out where and why they are wrong, so that the what comes out of the thread is the truth and best advice for anyone looking in who doesn't know what is best.

We use large format printers for sublimation, and do our own ICC profiling for the different things we print to. These ICC profiles are RGB. The printers are RGB, and all our workspaces in Photoshop are set to RGB (specifically Adobe RGB 1998) as is our cameras, and calibrated monitors. What we see on screen is pretty spot on for what we get printed on the final product.

If we made CMYK ICC profiles for our printers, and sent them CMYK information to print, it would be a nonsense, as the printer would have to just convert it back to RGB anyways, which would mess up the colours, and we wouldn't have a product printed with what we see on screen.

If someone here is using their graphics software in CMYK mode, and sending this to their printer, which is converting it back to RGB, and it works for them then fine, but this will be more luck and the exception to the rule than anything else, and shouldn't be recommended as good practice. If they're using a RIP, then there is nothing wrong with the workflow being in CMYK.


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## mgparrish

Prescott Press said:


> Well stated. After reading this forum for over a year it is my conclusion that there is a lot of opinions that people consider to be "facts".
> 
> Whether one is new to dye sub or a veteran of the process it would be wise to seek advice from someone doing like work. For us, I could careless how someone who uses Photoshop processes files. Means zero to what we do.
> 
> With that said if I was doing photo type work I surely would not be interested in how a shop who primarily uses vector/Illie files process files.


I do work in vector, I create some of the customer art, and I also have to take in customer supplied art. I also work extensively with photographs and mixed media as well.

What I state as facts _are not my facts_, these are from the experts for example Epson, Adobe, and most any mainstream sublimation supplier. I didn't invent this stuff. 

The main reason one would have to work in CMYK is where the customer has existing files in CMYK. This is due to the fact that some customers have their logos and art done by commercial printers (printing on paper) where the legacy of the equipment used in that industry is in Postscript. 

Having a RIP that can handle those CMYK customer files directly is a huge plus for some. For me on occasion I have taken in CMYK files as that is what the customer has used for their paper documents sent to high volume commercial printers. It's a PITA for me since I have to end up "swatching" to get a good match, but I can do it. 

I don't assume what type of artwork if vector or photographs one uses if I am giving advise._ Inkjet printing without a RIP requires RGB files,_ _makes no difference what kind of art vector or photo or otherwise "like work" is sent to it. Printers are agnostic to the type of artwork, it's what kind of data the printer driver is designed to handle _ Good practice is good practice. 

If you have facts or data from outside sources most people would deem expert then please present those to form your argument. I don't "he said she said", that is why I refer to outside expert opinion to make my arguments.


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## JIMMY34

Lucky7Matt said:


> When I setup my files to be sent off to have my sublimation sheets made, do I set the file up as a RGB file or CMYK? I am wanting to try out S&K and I'm not sure what color profile I should use. Any help?


 
No clue how this thread went off in another direction, your question was what colors to use to set up your file to send to S&K, well that's easy, ASK S&K...

As far as who's right and who's wrong about CMYK vs RGB...I've done so many color swatches to try and figure out what's the best...my findings are pretty much spot on with what Mark has been saying...RGB is what I prefer...

I've printed Pantone Solid Coated colors, CMYK colors and RGB colors and found my best colors are RGB for sublimation...I do use CMYK and Pantone colors to do exact matching for teams I sublimate for but there's really no right or wrong...

I have an Epson 7010 with Cobra CIS and Cobra high temp inks, flawless colors for what I use them for...I use CS6 Illustrator 99% of the time and a tiny bit of Photoshop...

Best way to figure out what to use is run color palettes for each, CMYK, RGB and Pantones, print them using a CMYK art board and RGB art board, pick the basic colors you like, make a custom swatch and do your own thing...

I was told to use the Cobra ICC but I found using the basic Epson Vivid profile with high quality setting gives me the best colors...

To each his own, EXPERIMENT!!!


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## mgparrish

JIMMY34 said:


> No clue how this thread went off in another direction, your question was what colors to use to set up your file to send to S&K, well that's easy, ASK S&K...
> 
> As far as who's right and who's wrong about CMYK vs RGB...I've done so many color swatches to try and figure out what's the best...my findings are pretty much spot on with what Mark has been saying...RGB is what I prefer...
> 
> I've printed Pantone Solid Coated colors, CMYK colors and RGB colors and found my best colors are RGB for sublimation...I do use CMYK and Pantone colors to do exact matching for teams I sublimate for but there's really no right or wrong...
> 
> I have an Epson 7010 with Cobra CIS and Cobra high temp inks, flawless colors for what I use them for...I use CS6 Illustrator 99% of the time and a tiny bit of Photoshop...
> 
> Best way to figure out what to use is run color palettes for each, CMYK, RGB and Pantones, print them using a CMYK art board and RGB art board, pick the basic colors you like, make a custom swatch and do your own thing...
> 
> I was told to use the Cobra ICC but I found using the basic Epson Vivid profile with high quality setting gives me the best colors...
> 
> To each his own, EXPERIMENT!!!


I agree on your comment about SKs requirement. Dave has swatches you can download, I would recommend that one have a transfer made with swatches if you are doing vector and/or spot colors. Files I have sent him have always been RGB, but not to say he can't handle CMYK as he has high end pro equipment, so best to ask.

But 2 issues with your other comments:

1. _You are not color managing at all_. If your ICC from Cobra is not working you are not setup correctly. *Using Epsons ICC which isn't made for sublimation is not a good practice*. I have Cobra inks, use their ICC and get good colors. See the attached scan of a test file that was transferred onto poly. The scan is grainy but the colors are correct. This was a WF1100. You should get similar results on a 7010.

2. Adobe Illustrator is a poor choice for sublimating without a RIP or a Postscript printer.

Per Adobe

https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/troubleshoot-problems-printing-non-postscript.html

********************************************

Adobe Illustrator is optimized for PostScript printing. In fact, many of the Illustrator advanced features can only be described using the PostScript page description language. Non PostScript printers (for example, Hewlett-Packard LaserJets, Canon BubbleJets, or Epson Stylus) use printer description languages that are not full programming languages (for example, PCL or QuickDraw) and are unable to describe all of the objects and attributes in Illustrator artwork. Most non PostScript printers rely on display information, host computer resources, and proprietary printer drivers to relay print information to the printer.
When you print from Illustrator to a non PostScript printer, objects may not print, or may print incorrectly. The behavior may vary with different printers and with different versions of the printer software. Non PostScript printing problems can manifest themselves in many different ways, including (but not limited to) the following:
********************************************

Per Epson

Support & Downloads - Epson Stylus Photo PX710W - Epson

Link was down just now but I have an archived attached as a graphic. 

********************************************
*I want to print from postscript-heavy applications such as InDesign, Illustrator and Quark Xpress. Do I need a RIP or Postscript printer driver?*

*RELATES TO:*

Postscript printing
CYMK printing
DTP, Proofing

*EXPLANATION:*

Epson inkjet printers are RGB devices, designed to process and print RGB data from other RGB devices and applications.You will require a Postscript printer driver or 'RIP' in order to print CMYK data or have access to all printing features when using Postscript-heavy applications such as InDesign and QuarkXPress. Even printing basic files from such applications can result in print quality issues, so for documents that don't contain Postscript data we recommend printing from a standard office suite or word processing software. If you're printing photos, why not try the photo printing software supplied with your printer or another photo processing application. If you are trying to print CMYK data, an alternative is to convert the file(s) to a standard format - for photos we recommend a JPG or TIFF (RGB encoded) file which the printer will be able to print. While it is possible to print non-Postscript data from a Postscript-heavy application, you may experience issues as the application may have limited print functionality, even determining a different paper feed path (such as a printer's roll paper path) which cannot be changed; this can result in an error message such as "media out/not loaded correctly", if you print with paper loaded in to the standard cut sheet path. Software such as InDesign and QuarkXPress is not generally used for everyday general purpose or photo printing, and is generally used in the publishing and graphic design and arts industries where users require proofing capabilities and greater control over the colour management process.

*RIP solutions*

Previously, some Epson printers have had optional Postscript functionality available with the Epson Stylus RIP Pro, e.g. Stylus Photo 2100, R2400.
For some Epson laser printers, a PostScript Printer Description (PPD) file is available from the Drivers & Software section for your product.

********************************************

I use Illustrator but never for sublimation or pigment printing from any of my inkjets. I have never been able to accurate color using AI on any laser or inkjet, sublimation or otherwise .... reason is AI is designed for higher end Postscript printers. The minimum printer would be a Postscript enabled desktop laser or an inkjet with a RIP. 

Using any printer sublimation or regular and color managing properly, then AI will not print accurate color for any test photo I send it, including the attached test PDI target photo. But Adobe gives some workarounds or you can "swatch" using AI.

For this reason I use Corel Draw which can work on inkjets and other non postscript printers better. I use AI for sending out to commercial printers that require CMYK, or to convert AI files to other formats.

AI is a great program, just the most of the installed base of users are using either proofing postscript laser printers, inkjet printers with RIP, or send directly to commercial printers for paper output. It wasn't made for cheap $200 desktop inkjet or low end laser printers and expect to get high end output from it.

If you swatch I recommend that you stay in an RGB if not using a RIP or Postscript.

I will repost the link for "swatching", it has charts that can be downloaded and has good instruction.

CMYK & RGB Color Charts - MultiRIP Sublimation, Transfers, Photograph and Direct-to-Garment Printing RIP Softwares

Having said that ... most of my spot colors are accurate without swatching, what I see on my monitor is what is printed. Some colors I do need to swatch but those are not far off. 

ICC profiles when they are made tend to be the most accurate on the input colors in the target scan. Those other colors in the 16.7 million colors gamut have to be what is called interpolated.

What you are doing using any and every color palette is that you are_ lucky_ when you hit a color. There is no reason to not stay in RGB then "tune" and add colors in between your swatch colors as needed.

******************************************

Now I know I'm going to get a bunch of crap for this but I'm amazed at how many relative new users won't learn proper color management, get bad results, then post bad practice for others to follow.


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## JIMMY34

Well, I'm not disagreeing with what you posted...I'm saying what works for me...

I've got my colors down perfectly, I have zero issues color matching anything, my colors and artwork are crisp, clean and vibrant...tons of pics on my website and I've been doing sublimation for over 10 years so I found little things that work and use them...

I use illustrator, use Epson Vivid settings etc and my red is perfect, royal blue is awesome, black is super dark and super clean, 3 colors some have issues with and I have no issues with them...to each his own...you got something that works, good fo you...

I actually use RGB red, RGB Blue, RGB Black, RGB yellow and some others but when I need a really good carolina blue, I have one in pantone that's a perfect match for my own line of micro fiber shorts, for dark navy blue I use pantone and for my seattle seahawk matching lime green I use a pantone color...I mix and match as needed...nothing wrong with that...

THAT WAX Sports
getthatwax.com


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## mgparrish

JIMMY34 said:


> Well, I'm not disagreeing with what you posted...I'm saying what works for me...
> 
> I've got my colors down perfectly, I have zero issues color matching anything, my colors and artwork are crisp, clean and vibrant...tons of pics on my website and I've been doing sublimation for over 10 years so I found little things that work and use them...
> 
> I use illustrator, use Epson Vivid settings etc and my red is perfect, royal blue is awesome, black is super dark and super clean, 3 colors some have issues with and I have no issues with them...to each his own...you got something that works, good fo you...
> 
> I actually use RGB red, RGB Blue, RGB Black, RGB yellow and some others but when I need a really good carolina blue, I have one in pantone that's a perfect match for my own line of micro fiber shorts, for dark navy blue I use pantone and for my seattle seahawk matching lime green I use a pantone color...I mix and match as needed...nothing wrong with that...
> 
> THAT WAX Sports
> getthatwax.com


Print this photo and transfer ...

http://www.gballard.net/dl/PDI_TargetFolderONLY.zip

_You will not get accurate colors across the entire gamut of your inks with what you are doing. 
_
It is only that using swatches you can pick whatever color happens to "land" to the right color you need after transferring.

If I gave you source material that needs to be accurate you are going to have to jump thru a lot of hoops and tweak and trial and error. If you color management properly trial and error is minimized. Most of my stuff it is accurate on screen and transfers what I see on screen. I do swatch on occasion but most of my stuff is plug and play. 

Some blues and greens are off due to the fact I am using a cheap printer not designed for commercial output, so on occasion I swatch.

My money says what you are seeing on screen isn't true either. 'Super dark" "Awesome" and "Super Clean" indicates you are seeing colors subjectively and not objective. Being accurate requires objective color and correct color management. While you might like the colors you see I bet they are not accurate. If you don't have a wide gamut calibrated IPS monitor then you have no true reference. But if your color management setup is correct in the application software, your using an ICC that was made correctly and you apply it correctly, and your printer/inks are good then you can get by without a high end monitor. But you can't trust onscreen viewing 100%.

Swatching using other palettes just means you have more color variations to choose from to find a matching color.

To each his own? You are sublimating without using a sublimation ICC, I don't recommend anyone do that.


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## JIMMY34

I do ALL the artwork using vecor art for semi sublimation jobs...I print what THEY see on the screen...you give softball teams too many choices, you're in trouble...

We use Navy, Lime Green, Carolina Blue, Royal Blue, Black, Orange and most BASIC colors...

I can color match ANYTHING because I printed sheets with the ENTIRE pantone Solid Coated color library, if I have to match something, piece of cake...

It's my own thing and I'm not perfect but I do what works for me and have over 500 teams and ZERO complaints about color, size, or anything else so I'll stick to my way and leave it alone...

Why do you argue whats right and whats wrong...my colors match what they need to match...my TX Orange matches a University ofTexas shirt exactly, my navy matches a NY Yankees shirt perfect, my carolina blue matches my micro fiber shorts, my reds are incredible...I worked hard to make my colors vivid and damn near perfect...

The OP simply asked a question on what to use, RGB or CMYK because they were going to use S&K...well the answer is still WHATEVER S&K SAYS...no right or wrong way just do what they say and that's it...

I've spent long hours printing with and without an ICC...I have friends in this business and told them how I have my printer set up...they tried it and LOVED it...there's no right or wrong way although you seem to think only your way is right...

I'll put my color prints on poly shirts against anyone, I've matched HS colors, College colors, different manufacturers pant colors and whatever I needed to match, never a complaint, so for me, my way is right...that's all...you do your thing, I'll do mine...

And BTW, I've printed photo's from people directly from a png or jpeg and guess what, dead on perfect...

Go use whatever profile you want, mines good for me thanks


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## mgparrish

JIMMY34 said:


> I do ALL the artwork using vecor art for semi sublimation jobs...I print what THEY see on the screen...you give softball teams too many choices, you're in trouble...
> 
> We use Navy, Lime Green, Carolina Blue, Royal Blue, Black, Orange and most BASIC colors...
> 
> I can color match ANYTHING because I printed sheets with the ENTIRE pantone Solid Coated color library, if I have to match something, piece of cake...
> 
> It's my own thing and I'm not perfect but I do what works for me and have over 500 teams and ZERO complaints about color, size, or anything else so I'll stick to my way and leave it alone...
> 
> The OP simply asked a question on what to use, RGB or CMYK because they were going to use S&K...well the answer is still WHATEVER S&K SAYS...no right or wrong way just do what they say and that's it...


Yup color swatching allows you to pick the exact colors that you need. 

As I stated if I give you art that needs to be accurate you now have to jump through hoops to make things color accurate, the more objects in the vector file the more you have to play with things. _If a vector file has a hundred objects you are going to have to click each one and reassign the color in the object._ I don't need to tweek much because I do things correctly. Most of my stuff I print the source image without modification.

I agree on your point about Sk Daves requirement though.

What you do can only work for you or someone only doing what you do. As soon as you try anything else you now need to tinker more tweak and experiment.

What I do works for ANY art, vector, photograph, mixed.


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## JIMMY34

mgparrish said:


> Yup color swatching allows you to pick the exact colors that you need.
> 
> As I stated if I give you art that needs to be accurate you now have to jump through hoops to make things color accurate, the more objects in the vector file the more you have to play with things. I don't need to tweek much because I do things correctly. Most of my stuff I print the source image without modification.
> 
> I agree on your point about Sk Daves requirement though.


 My point was Mark, that if you give me artwork I will ask for a jpeg of it, that way I can make it look like it does on the screen...99% of what I do is teams telling me what they like and what colors they like and I take it from there...if you send me a sponsor logo in jpeg, I'm either redoing it or tracing it for a charge...

No 2 computer screens show the same colors, if you hand me something and want me to match it, 100% I can...if you send me a pic of your grandma, I'll print it and I use my profile and I've had incredible results...

I've printed that picture, most of it was dead on, for what you see on the screen, I didn't like a few things but it's because I have an OCD with colors but it printed fine to other people looking at it, not me, I'm a pain with colors...too much honestly but that's just me...


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## mgparrish

JIMMY34 said:


> My point was Mark, that if you give me artwork I will ask for a jpeg of it, that way I can make it look like it does on the screen...99% of what I do is teams telling me what they like and what colors they like and I take it from there...if you send me a sponsor logo in jpeg, I'm either redoing it or tracing it for a charge...
> 
> No 2 computer screens show the same colors, if you hand me something and want me to match it, 100% I can...if you send me a pic of your grandma, I'll print it and I use my profile and I've had incredible results...
> 
> You are clearly not familiar with calibrated professional monitors or color management in general. The reason most monitors don't show the same colors is that they are not designed for accurate photo and color reproduction, most surf the internet or play games on them.
> 
> The purpose of a **calibrated** monitor is to make color objective and not subjective. Put a bunch of calibrated monitors all together in one room and use the same photo you would be amazed at how close they all come to looking the same.
> 
> Incredible results using Epsons profile? I think we would differ on what "incredible" really means.
> 
> Print the target file and transfer it. I doubt it is "incredible".
> 
> I've printed that picture, most of it was dead on, for what you see on the screen,
> 
> transfer it and show us .... it's an objective photo, what you see on screen means nothing if your monitor is not accurate.
> 
> I have to suspect something wrong if you printed paper matches your actual transferred image.
> 
> 
> I didn't like a few things but it's because I have an OCD with colors but it printed fine to other people looking at it, not me,
> 
> I'm a pain with colors...
> 
> I believe you.
> 
> too much honestly but that's just me...


I marked up above in your comments.


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## JIMMY34

mgparrish said:


> I marked up above in your comments.


 Hold on, what my paper looks like when it's printed is nothing like what it prints, no way no how...

The end result is what counts...

I have well over 500 teams I did semi stuff for, sublimation on shirts, substrates etc and have had not one complaint about colors...

I told you, I'm OCD so my colors are near perfect...I spent countless hours, tons of size 5X shirts for making swatches, went back and forth with profiles, back and forth with RGB and CMYK art boards until I was happy...I didn't just take one persons advise and use the Cobra ink CIS profile, I tinkered until I found what I liked the best and gave me the best results...

As far as calibrated monitors yada yada, I'm small time, so I use my laptop, tons of memory, CS6 Illustrator and my monitor shows me whatever it shows me but I can assure you, most people on this board are like me, small time with simple computers and software and not super calibrated crazy stuff...we are startup people so to say, I'm far from an expert but I've been doing sublimation for 10+ years and along the way learned from people like you and also by trial and error and sweat and hard work...

If you want to be good, fine, if you want to be better than prepare yourself, try things, experiment and you'll find your own way to make things better...going by the book sucks, it's like me using my WF7010 and them telling me not to use it for sublimation, guess what, I didn't listen and I'm doing fine, my printer didn't blow up and it didn't fail me or ever clog up...


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## Prescott Press

Jimmy you do much of what many production shops do. Although we use an ICC profile the rest of our production process is very similar to yours. We do not use calibrated monitors, we do not calibrate our Mutoh's to be certified color matching, we do not even have multiple ICC profiles, etc.

What we do do is crank out significant number of sports apparel items out every day of the week. There are so many variables when it comes to color and color matching that there is not one single way that works for all production processes. 

Most of us in a production environment figure out, through trail and error, which process works best for our clients and production methods. Others just cannot accept there are more than one way to accomplish something. The old saying "hard to teach old dogs new tricks" is applicable.


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## mgparrish

Prescott Press said:


> Jimmy you do much of what many production shops do. Although we use an ICC profile the rest of our production process is very similar to yours. We do not use calibrated monitors, we do not calibrate our Mutoh's to be certified color matching, we do not even have multiple ICC profiles, etc.
> 
> What we do do is crank out significant number of sports apparel items out every day of the week. There are so many variables when it comes to color and color matching that there is not one single way that works for all production processes.
> 
> Most of us in a production environment figure out, through trail and error, which process works best for our clients and production methods. Others just cannot accept there are more than one way to accomplish something. The old saying "hard to teach old dogs new tricks" is applicable.


Again start doing something outside of what your are doing, like detailed designs with many colors, fine gradients, or photos and you are going to have an eye opener.

I never said that a calibrated monitor is required, it nice to have though. But without one you are never assured what your source image looks like. If the rest of the system is accurate then the monitor is just a luxury and saves time composing or editing photos.

Yes there is always trial and error, but following best practice will minimize that. I can use cheap equipment and still get good results without all this tweaking crap. I prefer to not spend my time tweaking and more time actually printing and pressing. The more trial and error the less money I make.

Not using an sublimation ICC profile is bad.

Putting CMYK data into a printer whose driver requires RGB data is bad.

Proper color management is fundamental to any graphic design and printing, you cannot break that argument.


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## JIMMY34

mgparrish said:


> But can you do this without tweaking the image for color at all?
> 
> *No way without an ICC.*
> 
> I do work for artists and photographers, no way can I make money if I gotta tweak everything.


 I do CUSTOM artwork, NO pictures, photographs or images...all vector...

I'm the artist and all my work is basically logo's...if I needed to do anything else on a regular basis like photos and stuff maybe I'd consider a profile, for me Epson Vivid with high quality setting is spot on, like I said, I do it my way and others in the exact same business like my way also...we have to match other companies clothing colors so using our own fabric 
color swatches we print are the only way to match the way we need to match...

If you look at my website you'll see what I mean...

Getthatwax.com


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## ETA

What it comes down to is this -- what Mike is saying is, for the most part, extremely valid. All professionals I have dealt with, my shop included, will use RGB colors with smaller, non-industrial printers, with the provided color profile. That gives the results intended by the companies selling the inks and accessories.

That being said, I have absolutely no doubt that other shops can get by without following these methods. Is it the most efficient? Who can say. In my experience it is not. If you're doing things a different way and it works for you, more power to you.

I think everyone just needs to try to keep an open mind here. As long as it's working for you, why argue? This thread was originally about a quick question someone had about what color profile was used. That question was answered, different machines may use different profiles, and they should contact the people they are going to deal with and it will be solved. If everyone else here has their printers printing the way they want them to, I don't see why anyone is debating anything.

This conversation was never one that should have required sentences typed in all caps, sarcasm, insults, or anything like that. To each their own, I personally hope everyone is very successful with whatever way they use, and if anyone has trouble I hope they come and ask for help here, because so many people here are extremely helpful. However, useless arguments like this will keep people from coming to ask for help...No one here seems to need help, everyone likes how they are doing their work. So there's no need for anyone to get upset. We're all doing well, which is awesome.


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## JIMMY34

Mark, in your business the accepted practice and following what you do and say is very legit...

Those who work with vector art in illustrator can try my method...if you do custom team logo's, names and numbers for sports, I'd be willing to bet you'd try my method and never look back...I know a lot of guys doing what I do, which is definitely a niche market, and pretty much all of us are now doing the standard Epson Vivid profile using high quality photo paper setting...

What I do isn't the norm for most on here...but if you do custom vector art you'd be crazy not to try the Pantone Solid Coated colors, at the very least just to match colors to specific pants/hats etc...that's the sports apparel industry not your typical photo's and jpeg stuff...we actually custom design stuff for sports apparel and make a lot of custom logo's in vector art so for the few who do this, we have a very different way of printing and using colors...

As I mentioned, refer to my website and you'll see everything I do is vector art and every color is made for a reason...my navy has to match the navy in side panels of shirts to look right, same with reds/royals, tx orange etc...sometimes guys send me pants with custom color braiding on the side and I'll match it exactly within seconds because I have color swatches made on the type of fabric I'm printing on...

Can I tell you to match a custom green color on a pair of pants I just bought for our softball team and match it exact in seconds with your method, NOPE...I can because in this particular business it's what we do...

Sports apparel is a way different ball game than making cups and plaques and stuff like that...try doing custom apparel for 15-20 grown men who care more about matching outfits than what their house looks like...softball guys are 10X worse than you could imagine...I'd rather take my wife and daughter to a 50000000 square foot shoe and pocket book warehouse than deal with softball guys, lol, not kidding either...

getthatwax.com


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## JYA

Lucky7Matt said:


> When I setup my files to be sent off to have my sublimation sheets made, do I set the file up as a RGB file or CMYK? I am wanting to try out S&K and I'm not sure what color profile I should use. Any help?


60 replies, 960+ views, and I'll be the one asshole to ask...

Why aren't you asking S&K what to send the file in?

Now, to the question at hand. We design in RGB, using mainly Illustrator as our clientle supplies us with their vector artwork.


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## Lucky7Matt

I did ask S&K and I got my answer. I made this post before I got a reply from them hoping to get a quicker answer because I was in a crunch. I got it though. Thanks.


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## pisquee

Please can you share what the answer from S&K was!


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## Lucky7Matt

This was the email reply:

If it is not a photograph then use CMYK or Pantone colors. 
I am assuming you are doing dye sublimation. Pantones are not exact with Dye sub, so I would have us print a color chart for you if absolute color matters then you would know what you are getting in your design.


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## yatzeeink

I use an RGB art board and RGB colors that I’ve picked from the web and color dropped! My colors are super bright! 

I use ink x pro ink and a my profiles for Mac! 

I found over the years that RGB colors are richer! 

If you have a Mac I suggest using RGB! 

I’m printing on an EPSON WF 7110 

Hope that this helps


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