# how do I get Companies like CCS and Buckle to sell my T shirts



## shadow Apparel (Oct 14, 2008)

I would like to sell my cloths to stores like CCS and BUCKLE but i have no idea how to do this. Any advice is appreciated.


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## rickg (Oct 15, 2008)

Be careful what you wish for!

I am a sales person for a large manufacturer's rep agency so I have some experience with large retailers. First of all, expect a huge decrease in your profit margin because the "Big Guys" are in the driver's seat as far as pricing goes. Most don't hesitate to go overseas to get the cheapest pricing, making it very tough for the small vendors to compete. Also expect to change the way you do business because they will call all of the shots. They'll be very specific about how things are packaged, labeled, billed and shipped. I have seen more than a few smaller manufacturers go out of business by trying to enter the market with a national retailer.

The conversation could go something like this:
National Retaler: 
We like your designs. Now you'll have to package them like this. You'll have to label them like this. The cartons that are shipped will have to meet this standard - including bar coding. Your invoices will have to be compatible with our standards - If not, we won't pay. You'll have to live with our "just in time" inventory policy meaning you'll have to ship within 48 hours of our order. Oh, and by the way - you'll have to bear the cost of shipping. We pay our invoices in about 120 days (sometimes longer). You'll have to take returns at your cost - for any reason. And, by the way, here is what we'll pay for your shirts - figure it being half of what you think you might want to charge.

Sorry I can't paint a very rosey picture. There are some great success stories in retailing but for every success story, there are probably 100 disasters.


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## guysmalley (Nov 1, 2008)

Rick has given some good advice. telling it like it is


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## shadow Apparel (Oct 14, 2008)

So I have gotten in touch with zumiez and urban outfitters via Email and here is what they sent: 

Zumiez Inc. 
6300 Merrill Creek Parkway Suite B
Everett, WA 98203

Please send:
* an introductory letter or brief overview of the brand, plus contact information
* catalog, images or website to view
* pricing guide 
* if samples are sent, please include a self-addressed stamp envelope for return, if need be

Please let us know if you have any further questions or comments--we always welcome 
customer feedback, as it helps us continue to improve our store and provide better service 
to our customers. 

Best regards,
[email protected] 



Hello,

Thank you for your recent email. If you would like to submit samples, please send pictures, sketches and/or line sheets to our buyers at: 

Urban Outfitters Merchandising
5000 S Broad Street
Philadelphia, PA 19112-1495

Please note that we do not accept submissions via email, and we ask that you please do not send physical samples. Our buying team will contact you for samples if they are interested in your pictures or sketches. Please note that submissions cannot be returned, and that you will be contacted again only if interest ensues. Best of luck!


If you require additional assistance, please feel free to email us at [email protected]. 

Please include this email in your response.


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## krylonking (Aug 28, 2007)

Yeah Ive heard stories about large companies bullying smaller companies for lower pricing just to sell their product at normal retail.. So be careful what you wish for because you might have less stress selling for yourself rather than selling to a larger company.


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## InsaneIndeed (Nov 7, 2008)

how does this works, do you pay for your clothing to be in the stores and keep all the profit?? or do you sell your shirts??

I have been pondering this quite a bit for a few days now


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## anonimol (May 7, 2008)

I'm planning to sell my shirts to big companies,but my costs of production are very high so I will probably try to licence my idea.


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## smackey (Oct 17, 2008)

We did about $15m in sales and to the big retailers. Target finally went around us and started buying directly from China. Target then hired someone to warehouse the product for them and take an upcharge for managing their inventory. When things really got bad the large discount retialers all went into chapter 11. They ended up owing us $5m which and never saw a penny. They survived on us and many other small guys, pulled the rug out by going direct to China. If you have something they can't get anywhere else or get it knocked off in China then you can make it work. By the way Target didn't even send back the bad product...they found that yhey averaged 7% returns on our product and they automatically dedcuted 7% for mevery invoice. 

If you have plenty of cash and good ideas then you might be able to withstand some of the things they will pull on you.


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## shadow Apparel (Oct 14, 2008)

So your saying that if yo uhave copy righted your designs they can still go to china and have your designs printed sell them in their stores and not owe you royalties or anything.


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## guysmalley (Nov 1, 2008)

shadow Apparel said:


> So your saying that if yo uhave copy righted your designs they can still go to china and have your designs printed sell them in their stores and not owe you royalties or anything.


In general companies are not going steal anything. to the point alot of big companies wouldn't even review ideas for just that reason. But in reality a copyright is only as good as your ability to pay a lawyer to fight for the years it would take to win


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## anonimol (May 7, 2008)

They can go to China with your idea but they can't sell it in US ..of course if you can afford to pay the lawyer..But it's always good to protect yourself with copyright or patent.


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## smackey (Oct 17, 2008)

We had trademarks on our product but their isn't anything new under the sun. They took our samples and made a knock-off with just enough of a difference that we couldn't fight it...but I imagine we weren't clean either. 
You must find a niche, be agile, create a style, constantly change to stay ahead of everyone else, and know when to get out. The 1st year is the year you make all the money on a new style, the 2nd year others copy you and your margins erode, and by the 3rd year you better have gotten out of that styling.


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## Continental USA (Jun 13, 2006)

smackey said:


> We had trademarks on our product but their isn't anything new under the sun. They took our samples and made a knock-off with just enough of a difference that we couldn't fight it...but I imagine we weren't clean either.
> You must find a niche, be agile, create a style, constantly change to stay ahead of everyone else, and know when to get out. The 1st year is the year you make all the money on a new style, the 2nd year others copy you and your margins erode, and by the 3rd year you better have gotten out of that styling.


Wow, a fascinating, interesting, and ultimately depressing thread. Smackey, that is a very good overview, in terms that people need to be aware of. Most t-shirt idealists think that Urban Outfitters or Target would be like the holy grail. Ultimately, though it is a poisened chalice. These bigger companies all do their own sourcing at this point, and it is far cheaper for them to take your idea - expand on it (for that read: rip it off) and claim to be non the wiser.

This is infringement of copyright, and intellectual copyright. You must patent and register your designs, if you have aims to make it into the big box retailers. Even then, there is no guarantee they will continue with your 'brand'. Ultimately, branding is key. Your logo / design is what will make you unique. As smackey rightly notes, you will get through one successful year, thinking you are only just getting started, and then you will see your designs booted to high heaven. That would signify a downward trend. Very few brands can outlast the copy. A well done copy made in vietnam, bangladesh, india is going to fool most end users. Exclusivity is your friend. Limited editions are your friend. One of the only companies that managed this 'cool' way of delivering it's "brand" was Bathing Ape. That guy really got lucky along the way, but his stuff was all about 'quality not quantity'. So, that is another angle to take. You have one advantage as a small t-shirt designer. Quality control.

Good luck to all t-shirt designers / brands out there.  We are on your side.


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