# Entry level or older used machine that can handle caps?



## foreal624 (Mar 22, 2009)

Is there such a thing? Somewhat inexpensive machine that an handle doing caps well? I'm thinking about getting into embroidery my main business is printing t-shirts now. But I have an opportunity to pick up some semi steady cap jobs. Not huge volume but a steady monthly couple of jobs. 

By inexpensive I mean under 4k ... which would likely mean used.

I'm doing my research... but this was a question I thought I may as well get out of the way.

Thanks.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

5 to 10 year old single head compacts will work. Look on craigs list and eBay. Also imachinegoup.com in so cal sells used macines


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## foreal624 (Mar 22, 2009)

Cool yes I have been looking at imachinegroup.

So an old single head Toyota or Happy could possible fill my needs you think? How long (and I know there are more factors to this) but , how long would it take to stitch a hat on an older Toyota? Front of a hat something similar to a sports team monogram.

Thanks.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

If you can find a machine with fewer than 15 needles (9 or 12) that might lessen the cost. Most designs are less than 6 thread colors. Tajima and I believe Barudan are considered to be especially good with caps. Embroidering caps is generally harder than flats so expect a longer learning period. A simple monogram will run quickly - 5 to 10 minutes. I love those jobs! Patch-like team logos can take 15-20 minutes to run.


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## foreal624 (Mar 22, 2009)

Cool thanks for the input. What you guys have suggested is pretty much where I was with the researching I've been doing. But I thought I'd better get some opinions from the pros.

I'm trying to weigh out if I can make enough money doing the jobs I have in mind. Especially if 1 hat might take 15min.

Thanks!


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

The trick is to keep your machine running. Generally the larger the job, the better because there's less time spent setting up per hat as long as you don't get behind running a a job that has a large stitch count.

One issue with caps is not all caps will fit your cap frames so occasionally you'll have a job that's difficult to run. One way to avoid that is to stick to styles that fit your equipment (keep a list of what works) and don't accept customer supplied hats. 

Another thing to remember is that cap designs are limited to 2" -2.25" (.50 on some machines) high. That means some logos must be modified to work for caps. Customers will tell you they can size down their logo and it looks good in print but you'll need to tell them that even though their logo may look good in print it won't look good when embroidered on a hat.


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## foreal624 (Mar 22, 2009)

I was wondering about that. As far as how big an area can be stitched on different machines. Taller is better for the type of designs I would be dealing with. How can I find out what the limits of a machine are specific to caps ? Is it all dependent on which cap frame is compatible with the machine? Or is there more to it? Thanks...


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## crazymike (Aug 18, 2008)

The problem with how high you can stitch is with the construction of the cap.


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## Pyroshouse (Mar 4, 2008)

I don't know where you are but I, started my business with a brother 1210 it was a great machine sewed caps very well and never dropped a stitch. Right now on ebay there is a 1216ac which is about 10 years old that would be an excellent starter machine it is buy it now for 3800. I am not the person listing it just happened to see you question and was looking at myself to far for me to buy.


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## Wildgoose (Mar 5, 2013)

Foreal - I am a greenie myself and just getting into the whole game. The right machine for you is important and I don't have enough background to help you there but something you will soon find out is you will need some help with designs too. I have a program that came with my machine and I can turn out names and numbers ok with it but digitizing for a good look is a LOT more complicated than you might think. I have a lot of experience with AI and am top notch when it comes to designs to be cut (vinyl) but I've had to hire out my digitizing so far if it's at all complicated in order to get a great look and a smooth sew-out. This isn't a big deal but if you are expecting to do one off hats in ones and twos it might be a problem for you. I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting into it but you might consider the design/digitizing side of things as part of your research. Also consider what kind of tech/machine support you may need. Who you going to call when something breaks or isn't working right. Being new you will be like me without the background to know how to tackle a problem and a well used machine may have some "tuning" that needs done. Find a tech near you and see what they work on and recommend. They might even have a used machine that they would sell and support.


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## Pyroshouse (Mar 4, 2008)

On the subject of software, if you know vector then you should get a vector based digitizing program. I use wilcom it is based off corel. Works great for anything logo or toon.


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

On a $4,000 budget you aren't gonna really be able to get a newer model for your money. Here is a list of what you should be able to find on ebay or craigslist.

Barudan BENT-ZQ 9 Needle
Happy HCM (Great Machines, All Metal)
96 to 99 Tajima TMEX
SWF A Series or B Series T1501, T1501C, T1201, T1201C, MA-6
Toyota ESP 9000 or AD 850/860 The AD models have very little support left
Brother BAS 415, 416 or a Brother BES Series
Melco EMT 4/6/10 model

$4000 will also get you a fairly new Chinese machine but I advise not to purchase Chinese machines

It is best to buy these machines from a individual not a dealer if you can help it. A dealer has a much bigger mark up and you normally will pay more then what the machine is worth at times. Sometimes I look on ebay and Craigslist and I wonder where people come to a conclusion that their machine is worth more then it is. SMH. Some people know how to price a machine and other people really have no clue.


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

Any thoughts on the difference between the BES1216 and the 1201AC? Found a 1201AC down the street still running and am considering teaching myself the basics of cap embroidery with it.

Floppy drive on the 1201 but that part doesn't worry me. Our caps we sub out are only 4-6 colors and the 1201 has a 270° frame. Price is within budget and it's just down the road.


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

treefox2118 said:


> Any thoughts on the difference between the BES1216 and the 1201AC? Found a 1201AC down the street still running and am considering teaching myself the basics of cap embroidery with it.
> 
> Floppy drive on the 1201 but that part doesn't worry me. Our caps we sub out are only 4-6 colors and the 1201 has a 270° frame. Price is within budget and it's just down the road.


1201AC is a good machine. Those Brother machines were pretty good workhorses. Some parts are getting harder to get and harder to find Techs who work on them. For the money it is a tough machine to beat. You should be able to pick one up between a $1000 to $3000


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## Pyroshouse (Mar 4, 2008)

1201 is great soldi machine, only problem with them is they are no longer supported by brother. That means secondary market on parts. But the main board can be rebuilt and the floppy changed to usb. Just make sure you have a tech in the neighborhood that knows them.


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

Actually the person selling it is an embroidery tech, so that's a benefit. I'll have to do some research on the parts secondary market, tho.

Thanks for your reply!


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

EmbroidTek said:


> 1201AC is a good machine. Those Brother machines were pretty good workhorses. Some parts are getting harder to get and harder to find Techs who work on them. For the money it is a tough machine to beat. You should be able to pick one up between a $1000 to $3000


Yep $3000 but the seller is an embroidery tech and he's including setup and training and support. Plus he lives down the street.

Appreciate your reply.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

We ran caps for years on brother PR600 6 needle machines... If you can live with max height of 2 inches and running at 600 spm, they are pretty bulletproof little machines. The other nice thing is if you have a problem, you can put it in your car and take it somewhere for service. The only reason we don't have them any more is we upgraded to the 10 needle machines with the built in cameras.


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