# Grey printing as brown



## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

Hello I am trying to make some sublimated ceramic cups and the grey or 40% black turns to brown or tan not grey, I have tried more time in the press and less time and don't seem to matter still come out as brown or tan. I have a WF-7110 from cobra ink. 
Anyone have any ideas, is it the profile?


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

what temp and how much time/pressure are you using? Are you printing on the right side of the sub transfer paper? Can you post a photo?


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

I normally press mugs at 400 for 2 minutes and 30 seconds I tried one for 2 minute and I tried one for 3 minutes and don't see any difference still brown or tan depends on what percentage of black I use. I am attaching pictures of the 2 minutes on top and 3 minutes on bottom. I guess I have always used tex r print paper cant really mess it up


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

Looks like a profile problem. Usually when you overcook the print and mug the black will turn brown. I don't think that is the issue, though. How does it print on a piece of fabric or license plate? That will let you know if it's a profile issue.


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

Mark Fabric is the same way, any percentage of black turns out brown. The blue colors have never been right either, i printed and pressed all of the blues so I could choose the closest for my needs


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## feckman (Jun 30, 2007)

You may also be having an ink delivery problem. Do a nozzle check and make sure your cyan channel is working properly. We had a similar issue and the problem was that cyan was dropping out.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Bikerboy, I'm using the exact same set up and inks. We can do a couple things, send me your file and I will print one out, but first, which Cobra ICC profile are you printing with? Are you using their paper? what program are you sending your file to print from? 
I send from Photoshop, see attached screen capture for setting. I tried the metal and tried using premium presentation paper settings etc etc...had issues similar to yours. Using the poly/cloth/plain paper setting works perfect for mugs and poly shirts.


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

Larry 
I am sending it to the printer from corel draw X4 Richard sent me new color profiles yesterday, I installed them and have not seen much difference maybe a little more gray but still way to brown or tan. To see if it works I am just printing 20 30 40 and 50% black to see if it works and its not. I have not tried the poly plain paper yet,


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Just an idea: 

Try to switch from Corel X4 to a different software like Photoshop or Corel X5 or higher. (Corel X5 has a totally different Color Management system than Corel X4.)


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

BikerBoy said:


> Larry
> I am sending it to the printer from corel draw X4 Richard sent me new color profiles yesterday, I installed them and have not seen much difference maybe a little more gray but still way to brown or tan. To see if it works I am just printing 20 30 40 and 50% black to see if it works and its not. I have not tried the poly plain paper yet,


Not saying you didn't but did you make sure you disabled the printer from managing the color? You still have to do that even though you installed the ICC profile for the program. Just thinking out loud....


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

Yes it is off, your setting with plain paper polycloth was the closest to gray I have done, does corel draw X4 have issues with color profiles? Maybe its time to upgrade


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

BikerBoy said:


> Mark Fabric is the same way, any percentage of black turns out brown. The blue colors have never been right either, i printed and pressed all of the blues so I could choose the closest for my needs


Likely you are not setting your graphic app and Epson driver correctly. As others have mentioned mug press temp/dwell is also possible. Mugs are the hardest things to get accurate color due to the pressing variables. But you mentioned you tried fabric and got the same thing.

But suggest that to get your blacks/gray scales good first use fabric or something flat. Once you know you are OK with that then try your mugs. It's still possible that you have the color fixed later _ but won't know it _due to the mugs being more temp/dwell critical to get a good black. Saves money too just using a fabric for troubleshooting.

Also, make sure you are in RGB mode for your graphics and not CMYK. Unless you try the gray scale trick I mention below. 

I noticed that design is just text and you are looking only for pure grayscale?

If so, then change your work space to gray scale and also set the Epson driver the same. See my screen shot.

Note that this only works for designs that are true black/white/gray scale.

_What this does is forces the printer to only use "k" ink. _ Any brownish or color tint is because you are trying to create black and grays from the CMY carts in a color work space. 

So black and gray scales are more difficult in a full color document, it's possible to get good gray scales in color docs, but everything must be setup correctly, assuming the profile is good. A profiles weakness will almost always show up looking at gray scales.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

lmcawards said:


> Bikerboy, I'm using the exact same set up and inks. We can do a couple things, send me your file and I will print one out, but first, which Cobra ICC profile are you printing with? Are you using their paper? what program are you sending your file to print from?
> I send from Photoshop, see attached screen capture for setting. I tried the metal and tried using premium presentation paper settings etc etc...had issues similar to yours. Using the poly/cloth/plain paper setting works perfect for mugs and poly shirts.


Taking liberties to post your pics from from another thread, you have nice blacks on the stein. 

Shows what's possible on the same setup.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t540978.html#post2967298


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> Taking liberties to post your pics from from another thread, you have nice blacks on the stein.
> 
> Shows what's possible on the same setup.
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t540978.html#post2967298


Thanks, thought I'd mention that the photo's are a tad out of focus for close up examination, these were meant as thumbs so I wasn't anal about the quality...that said, the prints on the mug and stein are crisp and clear in case you thought they were fuzzy.


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

Thank You *mgparrish, I wondered about the gray scale settings but there are going to be other colors on there also. I will hold any further testing on fabric. I still think about the profile being installed right cuz blue is way off to but been over it many times and think it is unless corel draw is the issue somewhere . Will post what I come up tomorrow when i get back to the shop. *


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

BikerBoy said:


> Thank You *mgparrish, I wondered about the gray scale settings but there are going to be other colors on there also. I will hold any further testing on fabric. I still think about the profile being installed right cuz blue is way off to but been over it many times and think it is unless corel draw is the issue somewhere . Will post what I come up tomorrow when i get back to the shop. *


YW

Yes, if you have colors in the design this B&W setting doesn't work. But I think it's a matter of setup at this point for you.

Use this file for judging colors, it has a series of gray scales at the bottom. There is also a test photo on Cobra's site somewhere.

http://www.gballard.net/dl/PDI_TargetFolderONLY.zip


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## Anamootoo (Feb 10, 2014)

I had this same issue for about 6 months when I started, except is was the 4130 and Cobra. Just could not get gray no matter what. Any variation of gray turned brown. I worked around it, creating designs that didn't use gray and moved on. Finally came time to refill my tanks and I had 1/3 or so remaining in the refills. I was worried about settling so I swirled for about 5 minutes before refill. 3 days later my colors shifted drastically.... Had to redo a big chunk of my color chart the shift was so great. Was checking output with random files when I noticed I had gray. lol I've refilled twice since then. Always mixing well before and after topping off tanks. Haven't had any more issues. I retest colors and make slight adjustments with each batch but have never lost gray again.
I've read that there is no need to shake/mix.... But I just can't figure what else it could have been.


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

I am having the same problems. Here is my setup. Epson WF7110, Cobra Inks CS/4, DyeTrans Paper from Cobra, Cobra profile installed. Using CorelDraw X6, RGB workspace, RGB color pallet. Using the Premium Paper and high quality. 
Everything is set exactly as Richard shows in his video. Pressing on to license plates, using a hotronix Fusion - Temp 400, Time 45 Secs., Pressure 4 (Medium to Low Pressure).

Using the above everything with a gray comes out with a brown tint. Black and dark blue turn brown and browns have a darker than expected brown.

I haven't pressed an RGB color chart yet, but will later today. I have it ready to press. I just got this system Wednesday and haven't had much time to play around with it.

I did press a plate with 15 various background images and some came out beautiful, but again anything with a gray has that brown tint.

Hey Mike, glad to see you are in on this thread. I have always had good luck with info from you.

Thank so much for any help you can give me.
Thanks
Danny


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

I ended up getting my grays by using the plain paper and aluminum plate setting in color profiles


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

Hey BikerBoy

I just pressed one and used the Aluminum Plate and plain paper. The 90% black came out the most beautiful chocolate brown.


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

Also the blue came out as purple as purple can be. On the Color Tab in the print box, do you have "preserve pure black" checked or not?


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## PhillyPrintPros (Jul 2, 2015)

We been having a similar issue with grey printing as purplish.


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## BikerBoy (Feb 5, 2010)

I did lose all of the quality when I changed to the pain paper but I was just using fonts so I got by, I am sorry not sure on the preserve pure black and I am not at the office to check for you


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

These photos are my RGB color pallet pressed on license plate blanks. I will post screen shots of my settings in the next post. Now that I look at the blues after scanning and uploading they have lost some of the purple, or my eyes are going bad from looking at these colors for so long.


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

These were the settings I used. I tried the plain paper settings but when I did I lost more colors and there was no change on the blues or grays.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

First thing I think of is too much heat. Drop the temp to 385 and increase the dwell time to 5 min..
When blacks and grays turn brown I always turn down the heat.


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

Someone had suggested 325 and I tried it but there was no change. Cobra said to use 400 for 75 seconds. But someone else suggested 45 seconds.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

infopub said:


> Someone had suggested 325 and I tried it but there was no change. Cobra said to use 400 for 75 seconds. But someone else suggested 45 seconds.


Did it transfer at 325F?


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

Yeah it did. I think I did it for 75 seconds.


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Infopub...did you ever get your problem resolved? We just started using Cobra Ink CS/4 ink with the same problem. Blacks are a shade of dark brown.


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## jennbrown9 (Jan 15, 2011)

Infopub or KDRusty - Did either of you find a remedy? I have the same problem. I requested COBRA to resend the profile because I thought maybe something had happened to it but I haven't gotten a response. I have tried every other trick in the book that I can think of. Changing settings only shifts from browns to purples for me when I try to print grey. And I swear it seems like every order that comes in is asking for grey now!
Thanks!


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Richard sent me a new profile to try yesterday but I'm still getting the same result. Grey scale still looks very brown. I was able to get a very good solid blacks(RGB 000) by unchecking "preserve pure black " in coreldraw. It didn't help with grey scale images.


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

I am using Cobra inks and not having any problems at all with greys. Here is what I have with the Cobra ink and Epson 1430 profile.


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Maybe someone can help me figure this out. If I'm in the coreldraw print dialog box and hit the print preview it shows an image that resembles the brown colored gray scale I'm getting after sublimation. See the attached image. This is a screen capture and shows both the document and the print dialog on the screen at the same time.

Is this caused by a setting in coreldraw? If I pick another non-dye sublimation color printer is shows a preview with the correct gray scale.


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

What PMS color are you using.


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

I don't know what you mean by PMS color. The block on the left if just a black to white gradient. RGB 000 to RGB 255 255 255.


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

What is the RGB values or the color number(PMS) of the color that is printing out brown instead of grey?


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

Here are my settings in my System control panel printer preferences.


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

Here are my CorelDraw X7 printer settings


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for your help. My setting look almost identical. The unchecking of "Preserve pure black" was Richard's suggestion. It didn't change the gray scale printing. The only difference is on your printer setting. On your printer setting you use plain paper instead of Premium Presentation Paper Matte.

I'm still curious why my Coreldraw print preview shows the brown colored grey scale.


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

jennbrown9

It took me several days to finally find the answer. I had A LOT of help from another user here on the forum. This is what works for me. I do all my designs in CorelDraw X6 using RGB colors. I then export to a tiff file and print from Photoshop using the Polyester_Cloth_Premium_Presentation_Paper_High_Quality ICC Profile. (Set the profile in Photoshop print dialog box). Printer set to Premium Presentation paper matte and quality set to high. There are still some slight color shifts but not as much as before. I get a good black and blues. Greys are really hard to get prefect even on expensive large format printers. I am only pressing metal, not sure how it will work on other substrates. It still has some color shift when printing 80% Black down to about 60% Black. Print and press a color swatch chart for the RGB color pallet and use that as a reference. 

I can't take credit for this, someone else on here suggested using this profile for everything and it worked for me.

I haven't had time to try this profile in CorelDraw.

I hope this helps you.

Thanks
Danny


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi Danny,

That is very interesting. I don't have photoshop so I can't test to see if that fixes the problem. That also makes me think there is some setting in Coreldraw that is causing the issue. I will have to do some more research.

Kenny


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

KDRusty said:


> Hi Danny,
> 
> That is very interesting. I don't have photoshop so I can't test to see if that fixes the problem. That also makes me think there is some setting in Coreldraw that is causing the issue. I will have to do some more research.
> 
> Kenny


Kenny,

Post your Corel Draw settings for opening a new document, and then also for your documents Color Management.

Those settings you posted are for your printing only, color management also involves how a document is handled coming into the workspace as well as how color is managed when you compose inside the workspace.

File > New
show your screen 

Then 

Tools>Color Management>Default Settings
show your screen


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## infopub (Aug 29, 2010)

Jennbrown9 and Kenny

Mike is the person who helped me get my system working for me. I have known him from the forums for years, he is VERY VERY knowledgeable about many things sublimation and heat press and graphics related. Not only knowledgebale but so willing to freely share his knowledge.

Mike, I want to thank you for all the help you have given me.

Thanks
Danny


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Here is my Coreldraw settings


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

KDRusty said:


> Here is my Coreldraw settings


Change the rendering intent to ( Relative colorimetric ) and see if that helps. Here are my settings


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Steverc said:


> Change the rendering intent to ( Relative colorimetric ) and see if that helps. Here are my settings


Steve,

Are you using a monitor profile? The Samsung Natural Color Pro ... ???

I have never heard of that for a workspace. I use AdobeRGB 1998 and in the Older versions of Corel Draw it was called Fraser 1998 for some reason.

I use Relative Colormetric for line art and most vectors, then Perceptual for photo items. If it's a mixture of bitmap/photo and vector/line art then I choose which objects are the most critical for accuracy and use that rendering intent, a trade-off of sorts.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

KDRusty said:


> Here is my Coreldraw settings


Those are the settings I was using on Corel Draw using the WF1100.

I have X7 now and haven't tried it yet, I would anticipate it should be the same though. But I won't know until I set up.

I got in carts for my WF7110 now so I'll be setting up CD X7 for my WF7110 over the week end and testing.

I would say use those settings for now (and you can try the Relative Colormetric setting as well). As I mentioned in the other post I use both sometimes, Perceptual or Relative Colormnetric.

Perceptual is really for photo work.

I would suggest the following:

1. Use the settings you have _for now_.

2. Get some cheap 100% poly fabric for testing. It's sold in "yards" at Walmart and Joann Fabrics.

Using fabric is the easiest way to setup your color initially. Although the fabric is not your final substrate it's hard to goof up and all you need to do is press for 1 minute at 390 - 400 degs. Ceramics are much more critical for color as pressure, dwell and temp can really effect the color.

So you need to make sure that things like your pressing is not effecting your color and keep the substrate simple for now.

3. Use this photo for judging your profile setup on your poly fabric. It is a perfect photo. Don't use just any art initially, you can never make assumptions on how well the color was managed to create some arbitrary art. We need to start with a known good photo.

http://www.gballard.net/dl/PDI_TargetFolderONLY.zip

4. Refer to Danny's comment, try all the profiles you have on the fabric, even if the profile says it's for Aluminium or something else press all them on the fabric. You can see at a glance side be side which one(s) are the most accurate. 

I always just use the most accurate profile in the zip file for everything. At least intially use the best profile then later you can experiment with the other profiles on other substrates. 

Also, pay attention to the readme or instruction text file that comes with the profiles. It has the explanation of the file naming which tells you any paper setting or quality setting in the file name itself.

For example ...


***********************************
[Printer name]_[intended uses]_[Paper setting]_[Quality setting]_[ink type]
File name code=
WF7110 _ sublimation poly cloth _ Plain Paper _ High Quality _ CS/4 ink

**********************************


But my experience is that unless you have your own profiling equipment and make your own profiles specific to _your_ own printer, it may not be an advantage using multiple profiles. You end up with color shifts between the profiles and for the most part substrates just have more or less "pop", _not color hue shifts_ if you use the same profile. Adjusting for more or less "pop" can easily be handled in your graphics program with a simple gamma setting.

Profiles are really best for photo work and bitmaps. Although many colors can be reproduced "straight out of the box" with just a profile, for vector type work or other non-photographic art you really will need to "swatch" sometimes. If you look at the nice mug the OP posted that is a good example of swatches.

If you "swatch" you can usually nail the color. But for photos that are much more complex then a profile is really needed. Swatching will correct the limitations of the profile you installed. So once you get the photo as best possible and your profile setup is optimized then you should make your swatch "charts". The "charts" will be on actual substrates as much as possible.

But swatching is not for complex photos or bitmap art/paintings, for that the profile is the key.

Swatching lends itself best to "objects" where setting color is just a question of setting numeric color value.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

infopub said:


> jennbrown9
> 
> It took me several days to finally find the answer. I had A LOT of help from another user here on the forum. This is what works for me. I do all my designs in CorelDraw X6 using RGB colors. I then export to a tiff file and print from Photoshop using the Polyester_Cloth_Premium_Presentation_Paper_High_Quality ICC Profile. (Set the profile in Photoshop print dialog box). Printer set to Premium Presentation paper matte and quality set to high. There are still some slight color shifts but not as much as before. I get a good black and blues. Greys are really hard to get prefect even on expensive large format printers. I am only pressing metal, not sure how it will work on other substrates. It still has some color shift when printing 80% Black down to about 60% Black. Print and press a color swatch chart for the RGB color pallet and use that as a reference.
> 
> ...


Danny I'm setting up the WF7110 using CD X7 and Cobra inks this weekend. I'll let you know how it works out.

Just upgraded WIN 8.1 to WIN 10, so far Corel Draw x7 hasn't choked yet, so now that I'm past that I'll see how the WF7110 compares to the WF1100 using Corel.


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

I've used Cobra profiles before. My last printer was a Epson C88+ using a generic dye sub ink and a profile that Richard made for me. Never had one problem with it when printing black or grey scale images. Color always looked great. The WF7110 has been a different story. I just can't figure out what is going on with it. 

mgparrish - Can't wait to hear how your install goes. Sounds like your using the same setup as I'm currently using.

Kenny


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

KDRusty said:


> I've used Cobra profiles before. My last printer was a Epson C88+ using a generic dye sub ink and a profile that Richard made for me. Never had one problem with it when printing black or grey scale images. Color always looked great. The WF7110 has been a different story. I just can't figure out what is going on with it.
> 
> mgparrish - Can't wait to hear how your install goes. Sounds like your using the same setup as I'm currently using.
> 
> Kenny


Yes, I have the WF7110 and got in refillable carts from Cobra. I got great results using the WF1100 with Cobra inks, so hoping it goes well with the printer.

If there is an issue with the profile I'm sure Richard will take care of it for us.

I have PS CS6 and Corel Draw X7 and I will make setup guides for both.


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

Yes I noticed that ( after I posted). Someone has been changing my settings. Here is a picture of the correct setting.
I did notice KDRusty did not have Map Gray to cmyk Black box checked. He might want to check that and try again. Here is a link to corel's page that explains this in further detail. CorelDRAW Graphics Suite - Tutorials





mgparrish said:


> Steve,
> 
> Are you using a monitor profile? The Samsung Natural Color Pro ... ???
> 
> ...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Steverc said:


> Yes I noticed that ( after I posted). Someone has been changing my settings. Here is a picture of the correct setting.
> I did notice KDRusty did not have Map Gray to cmyk Black box checked. He might want to check that and try again. Here is a link to corel's page that explains this in further detail. CorelDRAW Graphics Suite - Tutorials


Steve,

Do you also send CMYK data to an RGB printer? Your screen shows CMYK color mode.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Steverc said:


> Sorry but my printer is CYMK . So those settings are correct . Check the link to Corel Website.


You have a Epson CMYK printer? This is a common mis-conception.

Epson doesn't make a CMYK desktop printer. You are confusing CMYK carts and actual printer data being sent to it. Epsons and all other non-postscript printers are RGB devices and expecting RGB data.

The link you posted does not speak to what type of color model your printer is expecting.

Commercial printers ($$$) with Postscript are CMYK devices, if you have a RIP then you can send CMYK data to the printer as the RIP substitutes for the Epson printer driver and goes direct to the printer . Many wide format users use RIP software.

Without a RIP or a true postscript processor in the printer then the printer driver is expecting RGB data and then the firmware of the printers will internally do the RGB to CMYK conversion (if a 4 color printer) or will do a RGB to CMYK/LK/LC conversion (if a 6 color printer) or a RGB to CMYK/LM/LC/LK/LLK conversion, such as my 8 color (8 color at a time) 4880.

Here is what both Epson and Adobe say on the matter, along with a couple of other authorities on the subject..

Support & Downloads - Epson Stylus Photo PX710W - Epson

"Epson inkjet printers are RGB devices, designed to process and print RGB data from other RGB devices and applications.You will require a Postscript printer driver or 'RIP' in order to print CMYK data or have access to all printing features when using Postscript-heavy applications such as InDesign and QuarkXPress. Even printing basic files from such applications can result in print quality issues, so for documents that don't contain Postscript data we recommend printing from a standard office suite or word processing software.

If you're printing photos, why not try the photo printing software supplied with your printer or another photo processing application.

If you are trying to print CMYK data, an alternative is to convert the file(s) to a standard format - for photos we recommend a JPG or TIFF (RGB encoded) file which the printer will be able to print."


https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/printing-photoshop.html


"About desktop printing
Unless you work in a commercial printing company or service bureau, you probably print images to a desktop printer, such as an inkjet, dye sublimation, or laser printer, not to an imagesetter. Photoshop lets you control how your image is printed.

Monitors display images using light, whereas desktop printers reproduce images using inks, dyes, or pigments. For this reason, a desktop printer can’t reproduce all the colors displayed on a monitor. However, by incorporating certain procedures (such as a color management system) into your workflow, you can achieve predictable results when printing your images to a desktop printer. Keep these considerations in mind when working with an image you intend to print:

If your image is in RGB mode, do not convert the document to CMYK mode when printing to a desktop printer. Work entirely in RGB mode. As a rule, desktop printers are configured to accept RGB data and use internal software to convert to CMYK. If you send CMYK data, most desktop printers apply a conversion anyway, with unpredictable results."

http://www.xritephoto.com/documents/literature/en/RGBPrinterNTK_EN.pdf

"Some inkjet, toner-based, photographic, and other
non-PostScript printers print in RGB mode, meaning
the RIP or driver is designed to accept RGB rather
than CMYK data. This includes Epson®, HP
and Canon® inkjet printers that are used with the
manufacturer’s provided software driver. If images
are sent in CMYK mode, the driver will first convert
them to RGB mode and then back to CMYK. Even
if the printer prints with CMY, CMYK, CMYKcm
(light cyan and light magenta), or some other
combination of inks, the printer is still classified as
an RGB printer if it is designed to accept RGB data. "


Printing to Desktop Printers | Color Settings in Adobe Photoshop CS4 | Peachpit

"Printing to Desktop Printers
The way Photoshop prints to a desktop printer depends on the color mode in which it expects to receive data. Photographic printers are true RGB devices—they expose photosensitive paper using red, green, and blue lasers or LEDs—so the CMYK color mode simply doesn't apply. Inkjet printers use cyan, magenta, yellow, and black inks (plus additional inks to extend gamut and detail), which in theory at least makes them CMYK devices. But in practice, unless you're printing through a PostScript raster image processor (RIP), desktop inkjet printer drivers are built to receive only RGB data. This is because traditionally, operating system-level graphics languages have not been able to send CMYK to printers. Photoshop itself can send CMYK to these printers, but the printer driver will immediately convert it to RGB before doing anything else with it."

I hope this clears that up.


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## Steverc (May 31, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> Steve,
> 
> Do you also send CMYK data to an RGB printer? Your screen shows CMYK color mode.


And yes I meant CMYK not CYMK (thanks autocorrect on smartphone) That above picture was taken directly for CorelDraw's website. Here's a little reading also..
RGB versus CMYK
http://print24.com/blog/2011/10/basics-how-to-use-rgb-and-cmyk-correctly/


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Steverc said:


> And yes I meant CMYK not CYMK (thanks autocorrect on smartphone) That above picture was taken directly for CorelDraw's website. Here's a little reading also..
> RGB versus CMYK
> Print basics: How to use RGB and CMYK correctly | print24 News&Blog


I'm not really clear on what you are saying? I don't want to misquote you or jump to any conclusion of what I think you are saying. 

But yes, there are both CMYK printers and RGB printer types. 

Epson desktop inkjets lacking RIP software and/or Postscript are designed for incoming RGB data, not CMYK data. 

Desktop sublimation and regular inkjet printing we should use only RGB printing profiles and RGB workspaces and "tag" all objects in the workspace with RGB color data


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Steverc said:


> And yes I meant CMYK not CYMK (thanks autocorrect on smartphone) That above picture was taken directly for CorelDraw's website. Here's a little reading also..
> RGB versus CMYK
> http://print24.com/blog/2011/10/basics-how-to-use-rgb-and-cmyk-correctly/



Here is some good info from Corel Draw, they have a very comprehensive color management guide here.

http://www.corel.com/content/pdf/cdgsx5/Color_Management_Guide.pdf

They state clearly to only use "RGB as the primary color mode" unless your documents are to be printed on CMYK presses in a Postscript workflow.

P11

"As a rule, you should choose RGB as the primary color mode unless your documents are to be printed on CMYK presses in a Postscript workflow.


P21

"Not everyone one realizes that non-Postscript (GDI) Windows printers can only accept RGB data. When you send CMYK or Grayscale colors to the GDI printer, these colors must be converted to RGB by the application, there is no other way and CorelDraw Graphics Suite is not unique here."


P31

"On the other hand, choosing the Adobe RGB (1998) color space and the RGB color mode for workflows where digital photos are printed on an inkjet printer is the right move."

GDI (non-PostScript) printer drivers used by most inkjet printers accept only RGB color data, and even low-end inkjet printers can reproduce some colors that fall well outside of the sRGB gamut buy are within the gamut of the Adobe RGB color space."


p37

"GDI (non-PostScript) printing

GDI printers expect RGB color data, so all non-RGB colors in a document, such as CMYK or Grayscale, must be converted to the printers RGB color profile. It's a good idea to design your document entirely in RGB if all you plan to do is print to a GDI printer."


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

KDRusty said:


> I've used Cobra profiles before. My last printer was a Epson C88+ using a generic dye sub ink and a profile that Richard made for me. Never had one problem with it when printing black or grey scale images. Color always looked great. The WF7110 has been a different story. I just can't figure out what is going on with it.
> 
> mgparrish - Can't wait to hear how your install goes. Sounds like your using the same setup as I'm currently using.
> 
> Kenny


I was able to finish my setup and testing. The color management screen in the workspace the same as always and attached. Since I had a new Corel version (X7) and a new printer, I didn't want to assume it would stay the same, but it did and I verified with extensive testing of all the settings.

There are some black and/or grayscale issues in all of the profiles. I have seen Cobra do better on this, but one profile is really exceptional and has better black and grayscale than the other profiles, but not perfect. 

I will post photos of all the profile output pressing my test file and create a full PS and CD setup guide. It will take a few days to get this done.

But the best most accurate profile is the 

"Cobra WF7110_Polyester Cloth_Premium Presentation Paper Matte_High Quality_CS4 ink.icm"

It looks stunning on poly cloth, with the exception of the error in some of the gray scale this would have been an outstanding profile.

You could also set this to Plain Paper/Inkjet paper if for some reason some substrates it comes out too saturated, but that might only be a few items, like maybe coated jigsaw puzzles or Bisons ceramics. For everything else this is good profile in it's recommended settings.

As I mentioned before, these profiles have stated purposes, the aim of my experiment on poly cloth is to look for any gross profile errors and find one I can basically use for everything.

But I do find I can always settle on a "one size fit's all" or a "one size fits most" profile.

The question of setting "Map gray to CMYK black", I tested it and researched on it. It has zero effect on RGB printers. It is useful for CMYK printers but most of us have desktops and no RIP software.

For spot on gray scales there will be the need to swatch more so than in the past.


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## KDRusty (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for your follow up. At least I now know it's not something with my setup or maybe a bad printer. 

I've settled with the "Cobra WF7110_Polyester Cloth_Premium Presentation Paper Matte_High Quality_CS4 ink.icm" as being the best for most items too.

I wish I knew why grey scale shading is so far off. In most cases, the problem isn't very noticeable if a grey color is used within a full color image. A full grey scale image would be a problem.

mgparrish...did you test the CorelDraw print preview and noticed it will preview the image with a brown grey scale images?

Kenny


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

KDRusty said:


> Thanks for your follow up. At least I now know it's not something with my setup or maybe a bad printer.
> 
> I've settled with the "Cobra WF7110_Polyester Cloth_Premium Presentation Paper Matte_High Quality_CS4 ink.icm" as being the best for most items too.
> 
> ...


Kenny,

I didn't check that print preview thing, I don't really use that anyway but I'll check it out tonight. Using it or not won't have any bearing on the final image when sublimating is why I don't use it, but I'll check on what you are saying.

Actually a full grayscale image should be very good, it really depends on how "black" the K black is. On my todo list is to check pure K inks in pure grayscale mode.

These printers can only accept either RGB data or grayscale data. Unlike CMYK printers which can have grayscales as a percent of "K" and the colors made from CMY, or both.

If you have any color at all in an RGB file then the grayscales are forced as a composite gray created from the other 3 colors and not from "K". With RGB data the "K" is considered "all or nothing", only the 0,0,0 RGB is decoded as "K" and make a pure black, all other grays are using the colored inks.

The exception is if you take your art work, convert it into pure grayscale AND set the Epson driver to the screen I have attached. 

What happens is that the printer will only use K to make any black or grayscale. This eliminates any errors produced by have a composite black or gray made from the 3 other colors. This doesn't work if you have colors of course in the design, must be a true Black/Grayscale design.

So it depends on how good the K black is starting out. I do some work in strict grayscale on occasion so I'll check this out.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

KDRusty said:


> Thanks for your follow up. At least I now know it's not something with my setup or maybe a bad printer.
> 
> I've settled with the "Cobra WF7110_Polyester Cloth_Premium Presentation Paper Matte_High Quality_CS4 ink.icm" as being the best for most items too.
> 
> ...


Kenny,

I checked on my print preview and it doesn't show up anything weird, in fact changing the profile doesn't change how it looks. 

I think you have it set somehow to doing "proofing" onscreen and it see the preview thru the "eyes" of the profile it seems. 

I haven't done any soft proofing in CD but I know in PS if you soft proof it shows the preview in the context of the profile. I don't know the setting for that, if you can't find it I do know how to force Corel back to factory default settings though.

I'll investigate further but seems you have something abnormal there, my preview looks great.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

I have completed the CorelDraw setup guide. I need to proof read and will post tomorrow.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Here is the Cobra WF7110 Corel Draw setup guide. I have some poly fabrics now with a test photo pressed on it using each of the 7 profiles available. I'll post those here later as I need to take a pictures of those.


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## Obada (Apr 21, 2020)

feckman said:


> You may also be having an ink delivery problem. Do a nozzle check and make sure your cyan channel is working properly. We had a similar issue and the problem was that cyan was dropping out.


Thank you man!, this help me a lot.


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