# vinyl not sticking to shirts



## flashyfashions (Mar 18, 2007)

Hi. I'm new to the forum, but have been reading for over a year. I purchased a Roland cutter in August and have loved it. My main business is adding rhinestones and doing custom designs for cheer and dance teams. I bought the cutter because some of my designs use both rhinestones and vinyl. 

Here's my problem: I have never had an issue with my Spectracut II until now. I'm following all the directions (302 degrees, light pressure, etc.), but the vinyl is not sticking and the customers are returning the shirts to be fixed. I've had to spend money ordering new shirts (different brands). I even returned the vinyl for a new roll, but this did not fix the problem. Any help would be appreciated because I am very frustrated.

My heat press is a Hix HT400D.

Thank you.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Hi Stacey,

Are you pre-pressing the shirts to remove the moisture?


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## flashyfashions (Mar 18, 2007)

Yes. I'm pressing them for about 8 seconds.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

I had a similar problem with a different product and had to increase both the pressure and temperature. After increasing I tested the shirts by washing and drying them several times until I got the settings right. Hope this helps.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

flashyfashions said:


> Here's my problem: I have never had an issue with my Spectracut II until now. I'm following all the directions (302 degrees, light pressure, etc.), but the vinyl is not sticking and the customers are returning the shirts to be fixed. I've had to spend money ordering new shirts (different brands). I even returned the vinyl for a new roll, but this did not fix the problem. Any help would be appreciated because I am very frustrated.


Here is a list of idea.

Pre-press: Sometimes 8 seconds is not enough time to get all the water out of a T. After a pre-press, lay a glass on it's side and look for any signs of fog. 
I sometimes have to do 2 full 20 sec. presses to get a dry shirt. 
I also use a lint roller over the area to pick up any stray fibers.

Temp: Some presses don't tell the truth. You might try adding 5 or 10 degrees to the temp. (I use an IR thermometer)

Dwell: I run 20 sec. @ 302F. Don't be afraid of a longer dwell, the vinyl doesn't get all the way up to 300F on shorter press times. 

Design: Watch out for thin lines, sharp pointed edges and small type. There is not a lot of surface area with glue to hold the vinyl on the shirt. These areas will be the first to fail if you are having problems. I did a personal shirt with all the above and it held up well for several washes. The very thin tips started to come loose, the points on the old english font started to release. I couldn't pull the vinyl off, but you could feel the points when you rub your hand across it. I re-pressed the shirt and all the points layed back down again. (I had used killer pressure on this shirt when it was new. I know I pushed a lot of glue out of it. That was another cause of it's problem)

Re-Press after peeling mylar: Always! This nails down any edges that came up during the peel. I put just a little more pressure (light-medium) on this final pressing. Cover with teflon or a sheet of paper, give it a full 20 seconds, peel hot.
If you set the press to hard, you will squeeze glue out from under the vinyl and on to the paper. If you have a seam or collar under the press, it will hold the platen up off the vinyl, this can be a big problem. I use a teflon pillow in such cases. They work great with hoodies that have the big pockets in the front (or zippers). 

Hope this list gives you some ideas.

What shirts are you having problems with?

Can you tell us a little more about what/how the shirts failed? 

Did you try re-pressing the shirts that came back?


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I always press over my shirts after I remove the Mylar sheet. I place a sheet of parchment over the design and press. I think it helps.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

John's right, 8s may not be enough -- especially for darker colors. The 2nd press has been crucial in getting the vinyl to really stick for me.


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## lauerja (Aug 8, 2006)

Watch you blade depth on the Spectrcut.

If you cut into the mylar backing or through it, you'll runinto the vinyl not stciking or maybe not even coming off the backing.

Josh let me know that one.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

John S said:


> Here is a list of idea.


I just added that post to my "favorites"  What a great checklist for vinyl (and other transfers actually). Thanks!


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## flashyfashions (Mar 18, 2007)

John,

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll try it again tomorrow because I'm out of time tonight. 

I'm using boxercraft black fitted tees (100% cotton) and putting the name of the dance company on the front with about 6-10 holes in each letter for rhinestones (using Spectracut II white vinyl). I can actually peel the vinyl off of the shirt without any sticking. Also, some of the letters are wrinkled. 

I have used several other colors and have had great success, but the white is not working on these black shirts. I then ordered another brand of shirt (Kavio), but am still having the same result. I'll try your suggestions tomorrow when I have a little more time to work and will let you know the result.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Stacey


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

flashyfashions said:


> I can actually peel the vinyl off of the shirt without any sticking. Also, some of the letters are wrinkled.


Start with more press time. (20 seconds) If that doesn't make the vinyl stick, try adding a few degrees (5 or 10 at a time). Your press may run colder than the readout. If you start to cold peel and the edges are not sticking, stop and press it again.

I'm not sure what is happening with wrinkled letters. My guess it you just haven't been able to get the glue up to temp to stick to the shirt.

Let us know what happens.


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## Yvette Rene (Mar 6, 2007)

flashyfashions said:


> Here's my problem: I have never had an issue with my Spectracut II until now. I'm following all the directions (302 degrees, light pressure, etc.), but the vinyl is not sticking and the customers are returning the shirts to be fixed.



It's not you. it's the film. We stopped using it all together because of the same issues.


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## flashyfashions (Mar 18, 2007)

Thanks, Yvette. I did order a different brand of vinyl. It should be here tomorrow, so maybe that will fix the problem.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

flashyfashions said:


> Thanks, Yvette. I did order a different brand of vinyl. It should be here tomorrow, so maybe that will fix the problem.


If you have a problem with your technique (or hardware), it may give you problems with your new vinyl. I would encourage you to do some testing and try to determine what went wrong with the Spectracut II. 
(Yes it could be a bad batch of spectra, but with a replacement roll doing the same, it points to your pressing technique or a heating issue with your press.) 

Every time you work through a problem, it makes you stronger.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Remember also this is cold peel. When you go to remove the mylar don't jerk it up, do it slowly if you see that any part of the vinyl is not sticking go back and press it again. DON'T remove the whole backing because you may leave parts on the backing. Just pull it easily away after it is cool. I have coreian counter tops in my kitchen and I place the design face down on the counter because it is always cool and I can remove a cut within 30 seconds. You can set it aside also and just do the rest of the shirts and then go back and remove the backing.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

flashyfashions said:


> Hi. I'm new to the forum, but have been reading for over a year. I purchased a Roland cutter in August and have loved it. My main business is adding rhinestones and doing custom designs for cheer and dance teams. I bought the cutter because some of my designs use both rhinestones and vinyl.
> 
> Here's my problem: I have never had an issue with my Spectracut II until now. I'm following all the directions (302 degrees, light pressure, etc.), but the vinyl is not sticking and the customers are returning the shirts to be fixed. I've had to spend money ordering new shirts (different brands). I even returned the vinyl for a new roll, but this did not fix the problem. Any help would be appreciated because I am very frustrated.
> 
> ...


I've had the same problems with Specrta Cut II. I also have the exact same press as you, Hix HT400D. I bought some TheroFlex Plus and everything's been great. You won't have any problems with ThermoFlex.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

flashyfashions said:


> (using Spectracut II white vinyl). I can actually peel the vinyl off of the shirt without any sticking. Also, some of the letters are wrinkled.
> 
> I have used several other colors and have had great success, but the white is not working on these black shirts.


That's interesting becasue most of the problems I had were also with the White SpectraCut II. I have used the black a couple times without problems. I wonder what the difference is.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

rusty said:


> That's interesting becasue most of the problems I had were also with the White SpectraCut II.


I had the issues with white as well. I have not tried any other colors so can't speak to that.

Perhaps there is a batch issue with this since I've read some posts where there hadn't been any problems with the Spectra Cut II in the past. Some folks, who are not currently having problems, may have stock from previous runs.

Just a guess on my part.....


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

I'd double or triple the pressure that you're using, and possibly increase press time slightly. Oh, remember to use a teflon sheet. What you're doing is basically trying to make it stick using heat and pressure. You can only use so much heat before damaging the shirt and your vinyl, but a little bit more pressure doesn't hurt a bit.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

Vtec44 said:


> I'd double or triple the pressure that you're using, and possibly increase press time slightly. Oh, remember to use a teflon sheet. What you're doing is basically trying to make it stick using heat and pressure. You can only use so much heat before damaging the shirt and your vinyl, but a little bit more pressure doesn't hurt a bit.


For Spectracut II, I wouldn't crank up the pressure. It pushes hot glue out from under the letters, you want the glue to stay under the vinyl. Lay a piece of printer paper on the vinyl for the second press, then turn it over and run your fingers over the paper after it cools off. If you used too much pressure, you will feel the glue on the paper in outlines of the letters. If you press to hard on the first round, this same glue makes a nice bond to the mylar backing. 

302F in not a lot of heat, you can use a longer dwell time. I use 20 seconds (light pressure) for the first press, and I might add one twist on the pressure knob for the second press. 

I have an IR thermometer that I have used to check the temp of the mylar right when I open the press. It takes time for the mylar backing, vinyl, glue and shirt to reach the temp of the platen. The mylar is no where near 300F after 8 seconds of pressing. The garment drops temp very quickly after the heat source is removed. You have to get the glue up to temp so it will grab the shirt.

If you are pressing nylon or poly, the Spectracut plus has a higher temp but much shorter dwell than SpectraCut II. In that case, I would not leave the higher heat on the garment longer than the specs. With the short dwell time, the garment does not reach the platen temp.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

Hmm... interesting. From what little I know, the glue is activated only when it's really hot, so the initial contact won't push it out. As the vinyl heats up, the glue will bond into the shirt. Yes, some will be pushed out but that has been a non issue for us. Even w/o the thermal glue, we can make a piece of standard decal vinyl melt and stick to a shirt under tremendous pressure. And with thermal vinyl, it would take a lot to burn or change the color. Of course, I can't speak for anyone else.


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## flashyfashions (Mar 18, 2007)

Thank you so much for all of your replies. I tried the Thermoflex today and it is working beautifully. No problems at all!!


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Great to hear!


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## speedneeds (Feb 22, 2007)

I am having the same problem with the metalic silver Spectra Cut II. However I have used alot of the white and never had a problem with it. I am new to working with vinyl and this is the only 2 colors I have tried so far. I will try all of John's suggestions to see if I can get the silver to work for me. Also spoke with Josh @ Imprintables and he informed me about cutting or scoring the mylar backing could be causing the vinyl to stick to the backing.


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

the very reason(s) i no longer use spectra cut - my very first experience with my heat press 4 yrs ago was with spectra - and it almost became a very large, ugly doorstop! i must say that josh at imprintables was very understanding and accepted my return of the unused material and credited my account.

however, that said, i've since used thermoflex plus with NO similar issues - and i've recently also been using imagecut products from joto paper with excellent results.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

I have ben using spectracut from the beginning and although i did have some problems at first (user error mostly) I did trouble shooting along the lines of what John has posted and came up with my own formulas for success with all of the spectra products. I think people look for the easy way out or sometimes think that thier press and cutter will work at the magic combination form the beginning. This is not an cookie cutter reciepe, you must experiment for success. Unless you have an air operated press, I do not know of any that can tell you the exact pressure that is being applied. That would lead you into experimenting. Medium pressure for me might be hard pressure for someone else and vice versa. Do not be quick to judge the product before you try experimenting. Sorry for the ramble but just my 2 cents after readign many posts like this!


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

jberte said:


> the very reason(s) i no longer use spectra cut - my very first experience with my heat press 4 yrs ago was with spectra - and it almost became a very large, ugly doorstop! i must say that josh at imprintables was very understanding and accepted my return of the unused material and credited my account.
> 
> however, that said, i've since used thermoflex plus with NO similar issues - and i've recently also been using imagecut products from joto paper with excellent results.


You almost ruined your heat press with an application of shirt vinyl?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I think people look for the easy way out or sometimes think that thier press and cutter will work at the magic combination form the beginning. This is not an cookie cutter reciepe, you must experiment for success.


This is true. If you use SpectraCut, be prepared to do a lot of experimenting, and hopefully you'll find a "magic combination" that is workable. However, every other vinyl product I've tried worked perfectly the first time using the manufacturer's instructions. I think the "ease of use" factor is fair to judge a product on. And I don't think expecting it to work according to the instructions would be considered "the easy way out". But yes, you are correct that if you use SpectaCut, expect to do some experimenting to get it to work. It's very finicky.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

CoolTech said:


> You almost ruined your heat press with an application of shirt vinyl?


I assumed jberte was saying that they almost gave up on vinyl and therefore made the heatpress worthless, before trying another product. That was the same feeling I had when I started out with SpectraCut. But I could be wrong.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

You took my post and put the absolute wrong spin on my message! I have not only had to try different recipies for spectracut, but ALSO almost every type of other vinyl and preprinted transfers out there INCLUDING your oh so beloved thermoflex! I am sick and tired of the bashing between these products on this forum hence my posting pointing out that there is no magic out of the box solution, it is trial and error that will make any product win for the individual. I have actually had MUCH more sucess and better results with spectracut than thermoflex but I like both products and will go with either one on any project, it just depends on what I have on hand at that time. I have found that they both can be "finicky" as you have stated but I think it is just up to the indiviaul to figure out what works best for them. That being said, there is much to be had from others experiences and this forum is the best source for that. I hope in the future EVERYONE will avoid bashing any product unless there is a gross example of it not producing as the manufacturer states and quantitative proof by the vast MAJORITY of people using it that indicates so. Again my 2 cents but please refrain from twisting my words to support your point of view when I do not share it!


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

wow scuba man. Sorry dude. Obviously hit a nerve there. It was not intended. I'm not bashing any product.. just giving my experience, which is obviously shared by many.

And FYI I like a lot of other products besides Thermoflex, such as Sport Film from TwillUSA too.


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

CoolTech said:


> You almost ruined your heat press with an application of shirt vinyl?


 no.......i did ruin a bunch of shirts tho! i was just threatening to make a doorstop out of the press until i discovered another material that worked for me!


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

apology accepted although I would refrain saying that either of our views are shared by many, they are shared outwardly and evenly by those that post on the forums. There are many more out there that have had successes and failures with all of these products but do not post here.


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

ummmm - wow......deep breaths!! different strokes for different folks - that's precisely why there are different brands available - and my intent was simply to report my experiences with different materials - not to bash anybody OR any product - it's as simple as preferring chevy to ford. people posting or not posting is just another choice, but if they are here reading to learn more about their craft then to my antiquated way of thinking, they should have more than one point of view to consider. i test drove a lot of fords and chevys before i bought my jeep


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

well said jan! Deep breath taken!


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## speedneeds (Feb 22, 2007)

My only question is that it seems that I am having great luck with the white (which everyone else seems to be having the trouble with), but the silver is driving me crazy  . I also have white spectra cut plus that I have used on several nylon jackets that I have had no problems with. I am always open to suggestions and look at all opptions. I have learned in other businesses that you can not set yourself on one product and one product only you must be open minded and willing to try other resources. I have ordered some thermoflex just for comparison purposes. Thanks to all for your help.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Are you having trouble with silver or silver reflect / reflect plus? The reflect is more difficult to work with as is any reflect product that is thicker. I have had the best results with the reflect plus as the glue is much more aggressive and we are using them on fire / ems departments.


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## speedneeds (Feb 22, 2007)

I have spectra cut II siver metalic. I at first thought that I might have ordered the reflective but I double checked. I am going to try working with it this evening after the day job. Might just take time and patients which I seem to be short on both these days.


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## flashyfashions (Mar 18, 2007)

Boy, I didn't mean to stir up so many emotions with my original question. Just because the white thermoflex is working for me doesn't mean that I don't use the Spectracut II. I have lots of spectracut colors that are working great. It was just the white that was difficult and I was just trying to make sure I was pressing it correctly. Thanks again for everyone's advice.


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

flashyfashions said:


> Boy, I didn't mean to stir up so many emotions with my original question. Just because the white thermoflex is working for me doesn't mean that I don't use the Spectracut II. I have lots of spectracut colors that are working great. It was just the white that was difficult and I was just trying to make sure I was pressing it correctly. Thanks again for everyone's advice.


Might as well be Mac vs. Pc... lol


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> You took my post and put the absolute wrong spin on my message! I have not only had to try different recipies for spectracut, but ALSO almost every type of other vinyl and preprinted transfers out there INCLUDING your oh so beloved thermoflex! I am sick and tired of the bashing between these products on this forum hence my posting pointing out that there is no magic out of the box solution, it is trial and error that will make any product win for the individual. I have actually had MUCH more sucess and better results with spectracut than thermoflex but I like both products and will go with either one on any project, it just depends on what I have on hand at that time. I have found that they both can be "finicky" as you have stated but I think it is just up to the indiviaul to figure out what works best for them. That being said, there is much to be had from others experiences and this forum is the best source for that. I hope in the future EVERYONE will avoid bashing any product unless there is a gross example of it not producing as the manufacturer states and quantitative proof by the vast MAJORITY of people using it that indicates so. Again my 2 cents but please refrain from twisting my words to support your point of view when I do not share it!


Easy there Steven  

Just because someone posts that they don't like a particular product doesn't mean they are bashing it.

Not all posts about a product will be positive, and there's nothing wrong with people sharing honest opinions about a product when asked.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Yes I have had the same bad experience with white Spetra Cut II going onto a garment, but every other color I have used worked perfectly on the garment. Now white will stick to other vinyl when doing dual layers perfectly also, but I just cannot get it to stick to the garment itself. That doesn't mean I will not keep using Spectra Cut II because I like the fact that it is 19" wide as opposed to 15" and it is cheaper then Thermoflex and in my opinion works as well if not better with every color I have used except white.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Chris, I have not used the silver metallic but I would probably try the experimenting I discussed earlier.... start low on both settings (temp and pressure) and use small pieces of the material and do test runs while increasing both to find the perfect combo.


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## speedneeds (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, I worked with the silver last night for about 3 hours. I varied cut depth, time, pressure and temp with very little success. The cut depth seem to help the most and making sure the shirt was completely free of any moisture, but the end product was still unusable. I tried the same design with the white and it worked great . I am expecting the thermoflex today, I think I will also purchase some of the spectra cut II grey the color difference between it and the silver seems to not be to bad. I am definately not putting the spectra cut down I love the white so far and the feel and durability are excellent. Thanks for all of your help.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

jberte said:


> i test drove a lot of fords and chevys before i bought my jeep


I miss my Jeep!


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