# DTG printing size labels - video



## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey TSF - I made a quick vid here on how we relabel our tees, just in case there was anyone who is/was curious on how to do it with their DTG unit. The client wanted assorted size labels, and since I say "yes" to everyone - it forced me to come up with a way to accommodate the request... glad I did

Info:
Ink - Firebird (this small print can be cured with great washability in 45 secs)
1440 dpi at around 70% underbase

total print time is 28 secs..


I think of the label as the icing on the cake. Like the 'lettuce' on the tuna sandwich, it _makes_ the shirt.. Customers love it and you can make some decent coin on the upcharge... 
Hope this was informative and helpful


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

ghostofmedusa said:


> Hey TSF - I made a quick vid here on how we relabel our tees, just in case there was anyone who is/was curious on how to do it with their DTG unit. The client wanted assorted size labels, and since I say "yes" to everyone - it forced me to come up with a way to accommodate the request... glad I did
> 
> Info:
> Ink - Firebird (this small print can be cured with great washability in 45 secs)
> ...





Very clever. Thanks for taking the time to make a very informative video. I'm very impressed with how you set up a production line process.

_


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> Very clever. Thanks for taking the time to make a very informative video. I'm very impressed with how you set up a production line process.
> 
> _


Much appreciated... With the quick print times, it truly is one of the few processes where I feel like I am constantly moving and being productive. Love printing labels..

I was able to knock out 300 labels in about 4 hours tonight, broke a sweat lol.. I charge anywhere from a $1.50 to $2.50 for relabeling, depending on print size and tag removal difficulty, so there is a lot of opportunity for easier money . I figured I would pass this on to our DTG community here on the forums, as I have learned a wealth of knowledge from the DTG forums here at TSF.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

ghostofmedusa said:


> Much appreciated... With the quick print times, it truly is one of the few processes where I feel like I am constantly moving and being productive. Love printing labels..
> 
> I was able to knock out 300 labels in about 4 hours tonight, broke a sweat lol.. I charge anywhere from a $1.50 to $2.50 for relabeling, depending on print size and tag removal difficulty, so there is a lot of opportunity for easier money . I figured I would pass this on to our DTG community here on the forums, as I have learned a wealth of knowledge from the DTG forums here at TSF.




Curious what the market you have found for this. Who are you advertising this service to?


_


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Informative vid, thanks for sharing with the forum..


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Good post, enjoyed the commentary.
Does your pre treater spray pretty narrow or do you spray a bit wider than you would like to ensure good pretreat coverage?
You said you didn't press the pre treat so you just air dry ?
Anyway thanks for that post.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> Curious what the market you have found for this. Who are you advertising this service to?
> 
> 
> _


Hmmm.. I guess I never really advertised it at all. The idea came about when my client said he absolutely had to have UFC's label (per their criteria) installed in the inside collar. And I do this sometimes on internet orders, for branding.

We are doing a skateboarding shop in Los Angeles next month, so I will advertise this label service to them for sure, for about $1.50. If the tag removal is a pain, then $2.50 - I arrived at this number after calling 3 major screen printers in town, and they all came in at around $2.75 (avg) for the re-labeling service... One quoted $3.75! So a $1.50 seems fair, and at the rate of 70 per hour it could be very lucrative indeed.

I also have been only suggesting shirts with a tear away labels. That helps significantly minimize our workload


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

limey said:


> Good post, enjoyed the commentary.
> Does your pre treater spray pretty narrow or do you spray a bit wider than you would like to ensure good pretreat coverage?
> You said you didn't press the pre treat so you just air dry ?
> Anyway thanks for that post.



Hey Limey - yes only air dried and never pressed. Am using FB Dark PT, and it dries and cures very well..

As far as the PT application method, it will seem a little primitive but works very well - also very fast. Is as follows:

I fully suit up in a painter's spray suit (mask, breather, the whole 9..)
I built a completely separate spray booth in our space. I hung 2 extra 7 mil plastic curtains outside the booth to minimize airborne PT migration (this has worked well for 6 months)
I use a homemade 'paddle' to apply PT to both the sleeve and collar sections. All with the Wagner 570 (best unit for hand spraying IMHO). I will make a quick vid this week, but will just add photos to show the basics. And, basically I just slightly stretch the areas requiring PT over the cool little paddle, and shoot them evenly with the Wager 570. See photos below

Hopefully that kinda paints a quick picture of the process for you. I will have my partner shoot the vid while I spray shirts and collars net week, and you can fully see what I am trying to explain. Sorry if I am leaving too much to the imagination


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## KristineH (Jan 23, 2013)

That's amazing. I'll need to try this out on our line that is (hopefully) launching by the end of the year.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

correction on the above statement:
I only air dry the inside collar PT application to avoid having to turn the shirts inside out (as not to press or melt any topographical fibers sticking up ei; collar, seems.) Otherwise is time consuming and labor intensive. I do press the main PT'd shirt and sleeves before inking those areas.

I have found through extensive testing though, that the labels are still very defined and sharp looking, even without pressing down. So I continued to use this method. And yes, fibers do raise up a little, but not enough to alter the text or any art work. Not enough humidity in the amount of ink being applied the cause fibers to stand up. So you can get away with not heat pressing. It still looks very sharp and lays down flat, even after wash tests


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

KristineH said:


> That's amazing. I'll need to try this out on our line that is (hopefully) launching by the end of the year.


I wish you great success with your new line... So much money to be made in printed apparel


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Well you are creative without a doubt, like that in a person.
Looking forward to seeing the next video.
I have an Equipment zone pretreater which I love.
I could use a frame spray template to narrow the spray area.
Good work and I wish you continued success.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

limey said:


> I have an Equipment zone pretreater which I love.
> I could use a frame spray template to narrow the spray area.


Crazy, because I have been thinking about the SpeedTreater a lot this past week, and how to localize the PT where it is needed for labels and sleeves. I feel, for now, the Wagner is the only way to go for labels and sleeves. A jig could easily be crafted to block out PT area on certain areas of the shirt (with an Auto PT), but you'd end up wasting a lot of PT... which always translates to wasted $$ to me.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

ghostofmedusa said:


> Crazy, because I have been thinking about the SpeedTreater a lot this past week, and how to localize the PT where it is needed for labels and sleeves. I feel, for now, the Wagner is the only way to go for labels and sleeves. A jig could easily be crafted to block out PT area on certain areas of the shirt (with an Auto PT), but you'd end up wasting a lot of PT... which always translates to wasted $$ to me.



I like the idea of the size labels. It's a great new market idea. I want to compliment you for what you have done so far.

We will do a little R&D and make an optional attachment for the SpeedTreater-TX Pretreater that will let you spray only the inside necks of the shirts (no waste). 

Automating the pretreating with the SpeedTreater-TX should enable you to achieve even higher production rates.

_


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> We will do a little R&D and make an optional attachment for the SpeedTreater-TX Pretreater that will let you spray only the inside necks of the shirts (no waste).
> 
> _


Wow - it just occurred to me that you make the SpeedTreater.. lol

Very cool, we are already interested in the TX and will be calling/emailing soon to ask a plethora of q's. If you did happen to make a jig/platen for labels, that could perhaps double as a sleeve jig - that would be amazing! Would take the ache out of our 10 hour "spray days", for those giant orders. So useful...


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

That's how Equipment Zone roll.
I will be the first customer 
Sean


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

ghostofmedusa said:


> Wow - it just occurred to me that you make the SpeedTreater.. lol
> 
> Very cool, we are already interested in the TX and will be calling/emailing soon to ask a plethora of q's. If you did happen to make a jig/platen for labels, that could perhaps double as a sleeve jig - that would be amazing! Would take the ache out of our 10 hour "spray days", for those giant orders. So useful...




Hey, if we can get you out of that painters suit you're using now to spray by hand.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

That's great... Because until they invent the interchangeable platen system on their TX, I will have to continue to use our DIY rig.

Have a 13x18 (Freejet platen size), a 16x20 and a 10x14" platen for kids right now. They all are interchangeable on our spray booth 'pulpit' stand we use. Works great, but I absolutely hate suiting up like a HAZMAT response team character


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> Hey, if we can get you out of that painters suit you're using now to spray by hand.


Totally...


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Once Harry has that figured out can pretreat all my tear away premium shirts weeks in advance then brand them to order at time of brand/design print
I had been playing with Epson F2000 to do this very thing but bleed through is an issue so all garments in my color range need to be very light gray or white so as to minimize bleed through.


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Ghostofmedusa ,are you shooting a new series of Breaking Bad?
Got to get you out of it for sure unless the girlfriend likes that look.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

limey said:


> Once Harry has that figured out can pretreat all my tear away premium shirts weeks in advance then brand them to order at time of brand/design print
> I had been playing with Epson F2000 to do this very thing but bleed through is an issue so all garments in my color range need to be very light gray or white so as to minimize bleed through.


Do you PT inside the collar first? Should not have bleed @ 1440dpi/ 70% underbase. You can also use 720x720 and you will not have a problem with bleed-through. PT a must though 

Just remember that any light colored 30-strand ringspun tee will show whatever is printed/heat transfered on the inside of the collar... You would have to hold it up to light to see.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

limey said:


> Ghostofmedusa ,are you shooting a new series of Breaking Bad?
> Got to get you out of it for sure unless the girlfriend likes that look.


The GF turned wifey... and likes to role-play. 

Ghost = Lucky guy


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

No,was trying to figure out method without PT because of the issues of application.
I was screen printing neck labels but hate having to interchange from DTG to screen printing to accommodate this.
I can get away with light gray neck label regardless of fabric color but that requires PT on all shirts.
If Harry can truly come up with a reduced PT spray area and I can air dry them ready for neck label printing then I would be in business.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

limey said:


> No,was trying to figure out method without PT because of the issues of application.
> I was screen printing neck labels but hate having to interchange from DTG to screen printing to accommodate this.
> I can get away with light gray neck label regardless of fabric color but that requires PT on all shirts.
> If Harry can truly come up with a reduced PT spray area and I can air dry them ready for neck label printing then I would be in business.




You'll be the second person we inform when it's ready.  
We'll start working on the R&D tomorrow for the SpeedTreater-TX attachment. 

Tags are really a super idea. Great additional service to offer with your direct to garment printer.

_


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Awesome, as expected.


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Funny how things pan out,Ghostofmedusa posts a video showing a creative but time consuming (relatively)process to print and now the owner of a great product is making it even better to help Ghostofmedusa and others to become more productive.
What a great and purposeful forum this is. Thanks Guys


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

It takes about an hour for me to evenly spray 100 shirts, in 3 print zones.. it goes really fast, just labor intensive. Pritning labels goes very fast, zero lag time at all..


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

But how long does it take to get in the suit and accessories?

_


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

The proposed idea could also be expanded into Front Chest print size reduction and unusual logo placement options like at bottom of shirt etc with large PT saving potential


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

*...A little Manual vs Auto PT debate fun..*

Suit and mask only take 30 seconds or less... Gun takes a minute or 2 to set up initially. Not very long at all for either, but it does get hot and sweaty in there and I am always mindful of over-spraying chems into the atmosphere. 

A lot of people don't employ the "suit", but when you are spraying several hundred shirts at once, in a booth, the suit becomes a necessity . 

Its not a comfortable process, but I am not that fragile and do not require to be in my comfort zone at all times. The Auto would be great for pre-treating the main area, but manual is much faster for printing all 3 zones at once (_I always have a helper taking the PT'd shirt and handing me a new one, like a chain process - goes quick_)... Unless... you figure out that option for an attachment on the TX. That would be very interesting indeed.

Only question is, how to control spraying outside of the necessary zone on an auto? Example, I would never spray 16" wide worth of area if I only needed 13". And it would appear that every Auto PT unit has control over length, but no control over width of spray _(Viper does left and right chest print zones, but we never get requests for "pocket" prints, so is non-beneficial to me personally)_. In which case one would be substituting PT economy, with 'convenience' (waste of product). Where I can be very efficient when applying specific coverage to only the area requiring PT, manually.

_For Debate sake:_ To me the comparison of _manual spraying_ vs _Auto PT_ claims of a "perfect" and even coating, is arbitrary at best... A good example of manual spraying effectiveness is the after market Custom Hot Rod painting industry: I have a good friend who owns a successful shop in CA, he conveyed that after market auto painting is a multi million dollar business on it's own. And I don't think so much money would continue to flow in that industry if spray operators were unable to lay down an even coat of paint by hand. And in that profession, actual paint is much less forgiving than any PT I've worked with. I've also sprayed a little paint in my day (_Chevelle, sad story, dont ask.._) I also know something about "flat fan" nozzles in general, they spray in a "fan" pattern which means you will always have more liquid down the center of any spray pattern channel. Spray an even 5 ft long column of water on the ground (_with Wagner or equivalent_) on a hot day and it will illustrate my point exactly: the middle will always show much heavier coat than the sides. That is a 'fan' nozzle's trait. The only gun out there that I've used that sprays very evenly is the Graco, but it too high maintenance for me personally. And my Wagner 570's trigger is pressure sensitive which allows me to be very even while applicating. And if a particular machine only employs a center single nozzle, then there is a good chance it will add more PT to the center of the designated area during it's cycle, and less PT on the margins... I watched a Lawson spray over and over at a show once. It had 3 nozzles, and due to a light glaring on the other side of the unit, it was easy to witness 3 wet paths of PT along with 3 columns of _drier_ PT'd area in between the wet columns. It was obviously uneven... And the price congruent with a used Honda Accord.. I don't know how effective EZ's unit is, but have been watching vids. The thing I like best is how the Auto PT unit would help greatly reduce exposure to the atomized PT in general, allowing less contact with chems.. I am positive it doesnt reduce exposure down to ZERO, but I can visualize how it will cut down exposure substantially... I mean, we really don't know the long term effects of the chems involved in PT, and why risk if you have the moola for an Auto PT machine? Everybody who wants to sell you something will insist their product is "safe", and as long as their eye doesn't twitch when they say it, we believe em! But no one can really be sure of a potentially unsafe product's characteristics until time passes and appendages start falling off.. And if you get hung up on things like that then you'll never be self employed, because occupational hazard exists everywhere. Choose your poison.. Jeez, I can remember several jobs I've had in the past that were severely hazardous to my health, but the money was there and I had to pay the bills. But if there is a way to mitigate exposure to the unknown and potentially harmful risks, then I am all for it... I am interested in the SpeedTreater TX, and if I had the extra cash I would scoop one up and give it the same thorough research battery and usage as I do everything else. Its all electric and I like the quiet aspect it presents too, because right now the loudest thing in my process is the Wagner... 
Just my thoughts on manual and auto spraying in general... 
All debate comments welcome here 

I think both Manual and Auto fit well for DTG. Some people aren't comfortable spraying by hand, but I don't mind it, I take my time and make sure I do it right - technique didn't happen over night, and nothing will ever be perfect in either world. 

I am just happy that DTG exists at all, imperfections and all.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

limey said:


> The proposed idea could also be expanded into Front Chest print size reduction and unusual logo placement options like at bottom of shirt etc with large PT saving potential


I dont think that is an option with flat fan nozzles. Unless the Auto employs a separate nozzle specifically for more narrower passes. Currently, cost effective fan nozzles don't have the ability to self-narrow, in order to be economical with PT waste. Nozzle height placement is the only way to narrow or widen width on a single nozzle... as far as I know. Perhaps simply attaching a raised platen to the TX's existing platen will add enough height to narrow the spray pattern of the SpeedTreater's existing nozzle. Thus narrowing the coverage and minimize coverage to just necessary area... And equipment zone wouldnt have to make alterations/concessions to their existing unit. Makes sense to me.. Thoughts on this Harry?

You guys are gonna laugh, but I have put extensive research into spray nozzle technology too... I have been to Alibaba, Tradekey, local paint stores... and everything in between to figure out which nozzle would be best suitable for PT application. To find out which nozzle outputs the most even amount of liquid per pass... All this because I have a postponed "Mist KING" themed DIY Auto PT project on the back-burner. I really did go into this industry with the same passion as anything else I do, and I have a lot of fun trouble shooting and innovating procedures and technology on my end. 

In a perfect world, I would have 3 Aeoons and 4 Auto PT units in use at all times .... And 6 Geo Knights.... And a boat, another motorcycle, and maybe a NY Style pizza joint opened just for me.. and a six pack
..In a perfect world.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

ghostofmedusa said:


> Unless the Auto employs a separate nozzle specifically for more narrower passes. Currently, cost effective fan nozzles don't have the ability to self-narrow, in order to be economical with PT waste. Nozzle height placement is the only way to narrow or widen width on a single nozzle... as far as I know. Perhaps simply attaching a raised platen to the TX's existing platen will add enough height to narrow the spray pattern of the SpeedTreater's existing nozzle. Thus narrowing the coverage and minimize coverage to just necessary area... And equipment zone wouldnt have to make alterations/concessions to their existing unit. Makes sense to me.. Thoughts on this Harry?



Greatly appreciate your interest in the SpeedTreater-TX auto pretreater. We control the width of the spray with the different spray nozzles we have. The nozzles change out in about a minute or two on the SpeedTreater-TX, allowing you to go from a 17 inch wide spray to a 12 inch wide, or smaller. You can see how quick they are to change in the maintenance video that is up. The best gauge of how well this machine lays down pretreatment is the real world feedback of actual owners of the machine, as indicated in multiple threads on the T-Shirt Forums. Now that there are several hundred of these units in the field you can get a good gauge that it does work.

_


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> We control the width of the spray with the different spray nozzles we have. The nozzles change out in about a minute or two on the SpeedTreater-TX, allowing you to go from a 17 inch wide spray to a 12 inch wide, or smaller.
> 
> _


Thats so great... I have a feeling we will be doing business together very soon.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

ghostofmedusa said:


> Thats so great... I have a feeling we will be doing business together very soon.



I guess it's the suit or the SpeedTreater-TX. 

_


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> I guess it's the suit or the SpeedTreater-TX.
> 
> _


I got out of one suit (Corporate 'Murica' for 15 years)
- And jumped right into another one, eh? 

Please PM me if and when you make progress with the TX attachments. I will call you guys soon... over there in Jersey, land of good pizza.


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

the video link is down - is it still available somewhere? I would like to see what you did.


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

scuba_steve2699 said:


> the video link is down - is it still available somewhere? I would like to see what you did.


Youtube took down my vid due to "incompatibilty" issues. not sure what happened. I will make another one next week and post a clearer video. 

Apologize for the inconvenience.


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## limey (Apr 6, 2006)

Harry did you ever make any progress with the reduced spray area concept?
Thanks
Hope you are well

Sean


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## ghostofmedusa (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey Harry. Old thread, but was wondering if you ever got around to making a quick vid on the narrower spray nozzle for doing quick inside labels/tags, that you had mentioned last year... Either way, am interested in knowing what transpired on your end. I am still in the "suit" by the way


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## mikek00 (Jan 2, 2014)

Hi Ghostofmedusa, did you ever get your video reposted on youtube? I'd like to check it out. Thanks!


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