# Purchase or lease Roland BN20?



## majik122 (Jan 24, 2017)

Hi there everyone. 

A wee bit of background. We just started our own small print and t-shirt company. I've been a graphic designer for approximately 20 years but have never done professional printing on garments or any items and have always outsourced my graphic print jobs. My partner who is the capital behind the business has no experience in the business but has a successful trucking business.

After much consideration, we've decided to go with the Roland BN20 printer. Yes, I know all the pros and cons to this printer as I've researched it for months.

My question is should we lease it or buy it flat out? We have the capital to buy it flat out but wonder if that's the right thing to do considering neither of us have extensive experience in the printing field? I'm not worried about not being able to run it properly but more or less weighing the pros and cons on leasing vs buying.

Any advice?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Lease terms are generally no better than buying with an 18%APR credit card.

And it's not like you can return the machine early if you decide you don't want it anymore on a lease. You can't.

Does that help you decide?


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## majik122 (Jan 24, 2017)

I always thought that one could return the equipment at any time while leasing? Thought that was the whole point of leasing? Woah...did I not know that? lol


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

majik122 said:


> I always thought that one could return the equipment at any time


Oh, we all wish - especially DTG owners. 

Double check with the lease company. There are probably options to buy out your lease early. Don't expect a good deal. 

And if you do happen to find a sucker er, lease company that will allow you to just turn in the equipment and walk away-PLEASE LET US KNOW!


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## smacity (Jun 24, 2012)

I implore you go with a 30 inch machine. You will not be happy with the 20 inch model. Built like a tank versus a toy, much faster and has a much higher resale value. Also, since you are a graphic designer I have no doubt you could design small banners and other items the bigger boy can produce. Here are some downsides to leasing. You need to have insurance on the machine to lease usually cost 300 dollars a year. The lease term is usually a 10 percent buyout at end of terms. I leased a machine. For small business like us I really see no benifit.


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## ayukish (Aug 18, 2005)

Buy it flat out. If you're concerned about the machine or decide to upgrade, it's better to own it so you have flexibility to resell, trade in, etc. 

Make sure you have a PC. If you're accustomed to designing on a Mac, you'll need a PC or parallels to install Versaworks and send your designs to your printer.


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## majik122 (Jan 24, 2017)

smacity said:


> I implore you go with a 30 inch machine. You will not be happy with the 20 inch model. Built like a tank versus a toy, much faster and has a much higher resale value. Also, since you are a graphic designer I have no doubt you could design small banners and other items the bigger boy can produce. Here are some downsides to leasing. You need to have insurance on the machine to lease usually cost 300 dollars a year. The lease term is usually a 10 percent buyout at end of terms. I leased a machine. For small business like us I really see no benifit.


Thanks so much for the advice! I know the limitations of the BN20, but we have to take into consideration that neither me nor my partner have done this kind of work before. If business takes off then we'll definitely plan for a larger cutter/printer. It's just the price of the larger formats is a little beyond what we can do right now, so we hope to get established and then upgrade. AND yes looks like buying it flat out is probably the best idea for sure.


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## majik122 (Jan 24, 2017)

ayukish said:


> Buy it flat out. If you're concerned about the machine or decide to upgrade, it's better to own it so you have flexibility to resell, trade in, etc.
> 
> Make sure you have a PC. If you're accustomed to designing on a Mac, you'll need a PC or parallels to install Versaworks and send your designs to your printer.


Definitely a PC user. Thanks for the advice, looks like we'll probably be buying it flat out within the next two weeks.


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## crazymike (Aug 18, 2008)

If you buy from Stall's ask for the Show special.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Ask Adam from imprintables in the above post if they have any TSF member discounts. They're Stahls too.


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

Just to clarify something here....

There is NEVER a good outcome when a lease is involved. 

A Fair Market Value Lease (FMV) will give you some tax breaks, but unless you are buying really big iron, you're never going to get a great lease rate. Period. Joe mentioned similar rates to 18% CC. Joe is right. Listen to Joe.

A $1 Buyout lease seems attractive to some. After all, isn't it better to buy the equipment you have been leasing for the last 3-5 years instead of just turning it back in? Sounds like it; except.... your monthly lease payment will be higher, and at the end of the lease term, you will have paid about as much in extra lease payments as what the machine would cost you to buy used so you've not saved or gained anything.

Can you turn in a lease early? Sure you can. But wait. You are still on the hook for every single remaining payment. Nothing is free and nothing is discounted. Owe 20 more payments at $300/mo? To turn that equipment in early, you'll owe the leasing company approximately $6000 dollars, plus the cost of freight to return. So basically, NO, you cannot turn the lease in early...at least not without penalty. And some lease companies simply will not allow you to turn it in early even with making the full payment schedule.

While I cannot wholesale condemn leasing as an option, I cannot really support it. I have cash flowed my company since the beginning. If I cannot pay cash, I will wait until I can and find an alternative method to accomplish what I need to accomplish. That is simply the decision I have made. It means I have grown at a slower pace. But it also means that I didn't pay $30,000 for a $20,000 item either.

Will I ever lease something? I don't know. I don't know the future. There may be a time when it makes sense, but I simply don't know when that might be; at least for me. But I have seen some decently good business rely too much on financing and get way over-extended... and as long as monthly case flow stays positive, all looks good. But as soon as several months of revenue disappear, things go bad and I've watched good companies file for bankruptcy.

Source: I sold big $$$ commercial production copiers and printers for 12 years and 95% of them were leased. They were also $150K-$1Million pieces of equipment too and maybe times we had great financing terms (0% - 5%) because we made most of the profit on the required maintenance agreements. I know leasing. That's why I don't like leasing.

Cheers.


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## majik122 (Jan 24, 2017)

STPG Press, that is some damn good advice right there. I'm not a numbers guy, my partner is. He did the math, we weighed the pros and cons and have decided to buy it flat out. Just makes way more sense. Thanks all you guys for the advice. Warms my heart to see strangers helping strangers! You guys rock!


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