# Using Vinyl as Emulsion



## caicai (Jul 1, 2008)

searched the forums using key words "vinyl as emulsion" and "vinyl emulsion" & can't find a thread for this, so here i am.

anyone ever tried it? i've read on other sites it's ok (NOT GREAT) for short runs only.

if it's possible, what kind? i've read just intermediate. but what color? a dark one? what side? everything else still the same?

thanks in advance,
crys


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## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

Look for *vinyl stencil* in the search box, there are many threads about it. Good luck


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## racerxmccoy (Feb 26, 2007)

it does work, but like you said...short runs only and its not great. Also make sure you take the vinyl off of the screen right after you're done with your last print. Otherwise the ink reacts with the glue and its a royal pain to wash out!

if you decide to try it you'll cut the image in reverse and stick it to the back side of the screen (the part closest to the platen). good luck!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Try the Ulano knife cut film (green film). You can cut it on your plotter, weed it like vinyl and it adhears the the screen with sta-sharp fluid from Ulano. Once you stick the film, peel the clear carrier sheet and then just tape off the screen like any emulsion. I use it and it works perfectly.


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## BSApparel (Nov 6, 2007)

I and my partner use Oracal 641 sign vinyl, and cut it with a Roland GX-24 plotter. As stated above, cut the mirror image (flip horizontally in your graphics editing program) and stick it to the print side of the screen. Works perfectly for me up to about 50 shirts before it starts to peel off.


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## Tj Ryonet Tech (Jul 28, 2008)

*Ulano Amba Water Stencil this stuff is awesome.*


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## hendog (Aug 4, 2007)

I tried oracal vinyl but it wouldnt stick to the screen, does it have to be a certain type of screen material?


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

Here is a link I found that might help you out. He shows you how it do step by step.

Silk screening with vinyl



Hope it helps.

Veedub3


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

Just in case the link does not get you there, the video is on the US Cutter website in the forum section. Scroll down to instructional contributions and click on the topic silk screening with vinyl. Not sure if you have to be logged in to see it though but if so it will only take a few seconds.

veedub3


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## BSApparel (Nov 6, 2007)

hendog said:


> I tried oracal vinyl but it wouldnt stick to the screen, does it have to be a certain type of screen material?


Try a good degreaser on your screens before applying the vinyl, and make sure you really press hard when applying it - a squeegee or scrap audio CD works well.


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## hendog (Aug 4, 2007)

thanks, ill try a degreaser, also the guy on video applies vinyl on squeegee side..does it matter which side?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Get off the vinyl and move towards the film.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

hendog said:


> the guy on video applies vinyl on squeegee side..does it matter which side?


I don't use vinyl stencils, so take this with a grain of salt. But here's why I wouldn't do that,

1) You want the squeegee to travel across the mesh smoothly, and this interferes with that.
2) I think it would inhibit transfer of ink _slightly_.
3) The abrasion of squeegee on vinyl increases the likelihood of peeling up the vinyl.

On the other hand, he might do it because,

1) This way the ink doesn't interfere with the adhesive and cause the stencil to fall off.
2) He accidentally forgot to cut the stencil in reverse and didn't want to throw out perfectly good weeded vinyl.
3) He never thought to do it the other way.

When I've used other forms of stencil resist (e.g. paper), I've put it substrate side, not squeegee side. I'm sure both can work, but that doesn't mean one isn't better than the other.


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## qnerve (Dec 12, 2007)

Solmu said:


> I don't use vinyl stencils, so take this with a grain of salt. But here's why I wouldn't do that,
> 
> 1) You want the squeegee to travel across the mesh smoothly, and this interferes with that.
> 2) I think it would inhibit transfer of ink _slightly_.
> ...



That's what I thought before too. I put the vinyl on the substrate side and tried a few prints and it seems that the ink likes to seep in between the vinyl and the printing surface (shirt.) I couldn't figure it out. And so I think they put the vinyl on the squeegee side and the prints seem to print out crisp that way. Just thought I 'd let you know of my experience with that technique.


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

i use this method.
substrate side, oracal 641.
good for 30-40 prints


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Tj Ryonet Tech said:


> *Ulano Amba Water Stencil this stuff is awesome.*



Thank you, but unfortunately, Ulano killed UlanoCUT Amba last December so any remaining stocks will expire December 2008.

We still make the much more popular UlanoCUT Green.
UlanoCUT Green water adhering - solvent resisting Knife Cut Film

UlanoCUT Green is applied with water, so it is resistant to solvent based inks.

Sta-Sharp S3S is applied with Sta-Sharp Adhering Liquid which is a blend of solvents so the film doesn't dissolve too fast. Since it is adhered with solvents, it is used for water based inks.

Consider the ink you use, if you do choose to use vinyl, because the clean up chemical and ink will attach the vinyl adhesive.


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## wola_77 (Jul 19, 2008)

what type of vinyl do u use and how did you get the vinyl to stay on your﻿ screen? the reason am asking is becos it not working for me


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

If properly done there is NO problem printing 100 shirts with this method.

-degrease the screen and let fully dry
-use a GOOD vinyl, best I have found is *3M 7725 on a clear liner*
-Mirror cut the vinyl
-apply on *shirt side* (use a squeegee just like you would apply a decal)
-tape off and print away
-clean up asap, because the longer you wait the more of a pain it get to be

I printed almost the first 2 years like this with ZERO problems. I still use it some when it is a basic job and I need to make a screen quick.

Also don't plan on changing colors, because the ink cleaner will make the vinyl fall off.

Good Luck.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Troy are you printing with plastisol or water based,,,?
I use water based,, and find it to hold up to 25 prints,,,, and then start to release,, 
It might be a water base thing but i am glad to get 25 pulls out of it,, instead of burning screens,, 

Thanks


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

sjidohair said:


> Troy are you printing with plastisol or water based,,,?
> I use water based,, and find it to hold up to 25 prints,,,, and then start to release,,
> It might be a water base thing but i am glad to get 25 pulls out of it,, instead of burning screens,,
> 
> Thanks


Plastisol... I am shocked you can get 25 out of it with waterbased. I tried graphic ink once and got 1 print... Haha.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

3m helps,, lol


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Try the Ulano knife cut film (green film). You can cut it on your plotter, weed it like vinyl and it adhears the the screen with sta-sharp fluid from Ulano. Once you stick the film, peel the clear carrier sheet and then just tape off the screen like any emulsion. I use it and it works perfectly.


Moto, do you mean Capillary Film? It's green, Ulano sells this, it's green, and comes in sheets or rolls.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

selanac said:


> Moto, do you mean Capillary Film? It's green, Ulano sells this, it's green, and comes in sheets or rolls.


Almost... they are pretty much applied the same, but Ulano green product is cut by hand or plotter, weeded like vinyl, and applied with water. Cap Film is applied with water and then burned with the same process as liquid emulsion.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

That's correct. Didn't know there were two different types. Was checking to see if he meant the one product, and just used it in his application. 

Thanks for the clarification.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Knife cut films are indirect*

*Knife cut films* are indirect - The design is cut into film, then the *image area* is peeled/removed, then applied to the mesh with an application liquid (it gets sticky when wet) water for solvent resistant film, solvent for water resistant film. After it's dry, the support sheet is removed, you blockout open areas and the stencil is ready for printing.
Post#16
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t56556-2.html#post353204

*Direct film* (capillary film), is applied to the mesh with water (it gets sticky when wet) and dried. After it's dry, the support sheet is removed and the stencil is ready for UV exposure. Apply a UV opaque positive, use a vacuum or weight to press the positive intimately against to the stencil, expose, develop, blot, dry, blockout open areas and the stencil is ready for printing.


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## ino (Jan 23, 2007)

Does anyone know of any distributers of Ulano green in Europe.
Thanks.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*European Ulano Distributors web page*

European Distributors of Ulano Screen Making Products


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: Knife cut films are indirect*



RichardGreaves said:


> *Knife cut films* are indirect - The design is cut into film, then the *image area* is peeled/removed, then applied to the mesh with an application liquid (it gets sticky when wet) water for solvent resistant film, solvent for water resistant film. After it's dry, the support sheet is removed, you blockout open areas and the stencil is ready for printing.
> Post#16
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t56556-2.html#post353204
> 
> *Direct film* (capillary film), is applied to the mesh with water (it gets sticky when wet) and dried. After it's dry, the support sheet is removed and the stencil is ready for UV exposure. Apply a UV opaque positive, use a vacuum or weight to press the positive intimately against to the stencil, expose, develop, blot, dry, blockout open areas and the stencil is ready for printing.


Thanks Richard
that totally made sense


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thank you Richard. Is Vinyl Film easier to make then making a screen with Emulsion or is there another purpose for it?


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Vinyl vs. Emulsion*



selanac said:


> Is Vinyl Film easier to make then making a screen with Emulsion or is there another purpose for it?




You have to cut films by hand or with a plotter. This means bold images and letters - no halftones or fine lines.
If cutting by hand, no equipment is needed. Emulsion requires exposure equipment and a sink to develop/dissolve the unexposed image area.
Vinyl adhesive isn't designed to resist ink, but because you are pressing down with a squeegee, the stencil may not fall off.
Groceries traditionally used hand cut paper stencils that were stuck to the mesh by the ink itself. Cut a Valentines heart out of photocopy paper and try it out with solvent or water based ink. Try butcher paper or baker's parchment. It costs you nothing but a little time.
Read the steps in my earlier post out loud and think of all the steps with emulsion. Indirect films have always been the fastest stencil system. Direct film is also faster than direct emulsion.
If you need photographic reproduction, you need a film positive, photosensitive stencil, exposure equipment and a water sink to develop the screen.
Download and watch the training films on each stencil type
http://www.ulano.com/support/supportmenu.htm

You might try an stencil method Ulano doesn't support. You can buy pads of Rubylith at art supply stores and adhere it to mesh with Ulano Sta-Sharp Adhering Fluid as Zach does in this un-supported video.
"Silkscreening with Zach Klein" http://vimeo.com/709064


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks Rich. I was really just wondering why they created them like this. I'll watch the videos and see if they answer that question.


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