# cmyk underlay



## madmanmagee (Feb 1, 2009)

I've printed cmyk process on white shirts with corel and it worked perfect, and now I wanna do the same but now on dark shirts. Does anyone know how to make a white underlay/base for process printing? I've searched everywhere and can't seem to find any discussions about it.

I know how to make a white underlay for spot color in corel,photoshop, and illustrator, but need to know how with cmyk in corel?

I see that corel has an extra orange and green colors as a hexachrome plate for its extra 5th and 6th color for process printing... is it possible to change the 5th color to white instead?

thanks for any replies!


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

madmanmagee said:


> I've printed cmyk process on white shirts with corel and it worked perfect, and now I wanna do the same but now on dark shirts. Does anyone know how to make a white underlay/base for process printing? I've searched everywhere and can't seem to find any discussions about it.
> 
> I know how to make a white underlay for spot color in corel,photoshop, and illustrator, but need to know how with cmyk in corel?
> 
> ...


Ridgely tried just recently, (OUT DA BOX), ask him! I kind of need to know too for this week.


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## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

It can be simple. Take your graphic and change it to gray scale and then invert it or make a negative of the graphic. You may want to darken it a bit, but this should work fine for your under coat. I use this method often and it works great.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

what mikelmorgan suggested is the best start. 
The ideal under base can take time to create, playing with contrast, levels and curve tools. It really depends on the design, If there's bright colors you will want more white under those areas. 
Keep in mind that if there's no under base under a CMYK ink it will not show on very dark shirts at all. I've even used under base under almost black areas sometimes to make them show up for more detail.

I've done allot of cmyk on darks in my career and have tried many different techniques, the absolute best results on darks i've achieved have actually taken 2 separate films for base coats creating allot of depth and detail in the design, allowing for very bright colors as well, without a strong hand feel.


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## Unkle Samo (Feb 27, 2008)

For those that use discharge as your underbase, do you get good results w/ waterbase CYMK inks or is plastisol the better option?


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

CMYK is designed to be printed on a white page, therefore you could do worse than printing a white block behind your design.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

I've tried what PositiveDave suggested in the past and this does work and is the easiest solution. The down side to this is a thick hand feel and major dot gain on the press causing color shift in the design throughout the run. If you're only printing a couple dozen shirts and don't mind the plastic patch feel this is a good option.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

Unkle Samo, i haven't seen cmyk printing done with waterbase inks, not sure how well that works.
I have seen discharge used for the underbase tho and the colors always seem dull (great for pale water color style designs tho). If anyone has good examples of these techniques i'd like to see them.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

PositiveDave said:


> CMYK is designed to be printed on a white page, therefore you could do worse than printing a white block behind your design.


I'm not understanding, if CMYK was designed to print on white, how can it be worse to put a white block behind it?

Just confused.


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## Tj Ryonet Tech (Jul 28, 2008)

When printing on a white shirt the fibers of the shirt hang onto the dots and help them to maintain the integrity of the dot creating a crisp design. When printing onto a white plate the surface is smooth and the the dots distort as each screen is printed and "smashes" the dot underneath it. You can still get the design to look ok but it is definitely not as good as going directly onto fabric.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

tshirtguru said:


> i'm not understanding, if cmyk was designed to print on white, how can it be worse to put a white block behind it?
> 
> Just confused.


worse than


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

PositiveDave said:


> worse than


Ah ok, did I miss that or did you edit that in? I just want to know because I want to see how if I lost my attn to detail.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Tj Ryonet Tech said:


> When printing on a white shirt the fibers of the shirt hang onto the dots and help them to maintain the integrity of the dot creating a crisp design. When printing onto a white plate the surface is smooth and the the dots distort as each screen is printed and "smashes" the dot underneath it. You can still get the design to look ok but it is definitely not as good as going directly onto fabric.


What if you flash between each color for that it doesn't "smash"? I would assume it would give a crisp print with flashes between each color.


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## mysterion (Apr 3, 2007)

Then you run the chance of over-flashing, causing the ink to come off the shirt after a few washings, it takes FOREVER to print, trust me, I've done it... a whopping 24 shirts an hour, and the platens get so hot, that the glue gives up and you need to stop and let everything cool down occasionally. But, it can be done!


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Has anyone tried a discharge print or waterbased white before the CMYK print to reduce the hand of the garment?


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

I personally haven't done discharge under base but i've seen a few shirt printed that way. The prints looked good but not the colors weren't vibrant compared to printing on a white base. Some i've seen didn't look that good but i believe it was because the base wasn't discharged well.

I often hear people talk about how rubbery plastisol printing is on dark garments and this is very misleading. You may never get the same hand feel as printing on a white shirt or doing sublimation but i print allot of multicolor designs (doing index/halftone not CMYK tho) with bright colors using plastisol and I get a very soft hand feel. It has allot to do with the printing technique, ink viscosity, using the right mesh and a good separation for the mask (under base). Many of my prints with multi bright colors have a texture feel but after one wash they feel just like a water base print. You can achieve a very soft hand feel using plastisol ink.

The problem with CMYK is the inks are translucent so to achieve the bright colors you need as white an under base as possible. Doing a solid white under base on darks will always give you a plastic hand feel, the trick is to work the underbase as a halftone image and really enhance it by lightening with the shadow areas and darkening the higlight areas. You won't get a water base feel but this will reduce the hand feel allot.
I used to do 2 films of under base for critical jobs, the second under base was just for the highlight areas. This allowed me to lay down a soft under base under the majority of the print and a strong white under the highlight areas.


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## madmanmagee (Feb 1, 2009)

Tj Ryonet Tech said:


> When printing on a white shirt the fibers of the shirt hang onto the dots and help them to maintain the integrity of the dot creating a crisp design. When printing onto a white plate the surface is smooth and the the dots distort as each screen is printed and "smashes" the dot underneath it. You can still get the design to look ok but it is definitely not as good as going directly onto fabric.


 thanks for the feedback. I was wondering how much you shrink your undrlay down to when printing on darks?

thanks alot for your help


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