# Which type of cleaning solution works best?



## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Humidity is a real issue, but I wonder how often the cleaning solutions are to blame for clogged print heads, and gummy wiper blades and capping station gaskets??

I have talked to people who keep up their maintenance faithfully using simple green or aircraft simple green, various varieties of windex, cps, ammonia, alcohol wipes, Everclear, clear or green relabeled solutions. I have seen bottles of cleaning solution full of floating debris too, and this would be an obvious problem, also.

To test whether the cleaning solution is effective or problematic I have taken ink and smeared it on a surface and let it partially dry. I should have taken pictures as it was really interesting. I used Windex original formula, the original relabeled cleaning solution I got with my printer , two other relabeled solutions which are different, and CPS to try to clean up the ink. (This would not show whether they were safe to use on the print head or gaskets- only whether they would clean up the ink.)

Some of them made the ink gummy and ball up!! Some of them just smeared it!
One cleaned it off really well and it surprised me which one- good old Original formula Windex. 
There were also some differences in how the solutions affected each color ink. ( Maybe a clue to why certain colors clog more than others ?)

Is anyone else interested in putting various cleaning solutions to the test and post their results? This might solve the mystery of why inks work great for one user and then another user has constant clogging issues with the same ink(regardless whether the system is open or closed).


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

sounds very interesting, i previsouly used simple green but have since switched to DTGtex cleaning solution by SWF as i can buy it here in the UK (shipping internationaly for cleaning solution is very expensive!) and i do seem to get less clogging, thats useing the dtginks.com inkset.


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## ReneeMarlea (Sep 6, 2007)

Word of Caution: Do not use simple green, it will attack the adhesive that adheres the nozzle plate to the print head.

The best and safest cleaner that can stay in your ink system and jet properly is from the manufacturer that makes your ink.
Why: Because the cleaner made from the manufacturer has proprieties that are completable with the binders used too make the ink (especially the white) and are designed to break down those binders but not effect the adhesives used in the ink head. 
In addition and very important it has the correct surface tension needed to _jet correctly _so that those channels will not suffer from cavitation and heat up which will eventually damage your print head. It's has all the proprieties of the color and white ink with the additional cleaning agent.

As far as Windex is concerned, the original formula is ok to clean your wiper blade and capping station but it should be diluted with 50% distilled water, not to jet through your print head.

Humidity does effect some ink sets more then others and depending on your ink delivery system can effect how the drop is formed which will in turn plays havoc with successful jetting in varying humidity.



> (regardless whether the system is open or closed).


Here is a bit of education regarding that statement:

As example: It is well known that the level in your open cartridge has a direct effect on successful jetting, this is why machines with open style bottles or carts need to keep playing the level game or they get drop outs.
In fact what you are doing is trying to control how the dot is formed by changing the head pressure, you never get it perfect, and perfect is what it needs to eject drops 10,000 times per second.

A closed system has much more control at keeping this constant, especially jetting white ink that is ruining full out, so if the drop ejects straight and does not deflect all over the nozzle plate then you will not need to run cleaning cycles to keep it clean and the humidity will have less effect since there's nothing on the head to dry up.

If I'm getting too technical just look at the grunge in an open system especially the white, it will crust up the same as if you left the top off an open bottle of ketchup, once you break that vacuum seal it's on it's way to expire, the garment pigment inks are effected the same way by open air.

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I may be getting off topic hear: So I will be making a topic about this in the Belquette area that will help users understand the benefits of why vacuum degassing inks are so important using Epson print heads.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

of course you want to push a closed system that way you corner your market on consumables swelling profits in the process and i have no doubt you have all sorts of "proof" to back it up with...........


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## ReneeMarlea (Sep 6, 2007)

sodrisc said:


> of course you want to push a closed system that way you corner your market on consumables swelling profits in the process and i have no doubt you have all sorts of "proof" to back it up with, i take statements from manufacturers with a profit swelling agenda with a very large pinch of salt.....


As a end user I thought the same way.
You probably know we developed the Flexijet machine that used open cartridges. 
We noticed a while back that many users needed to run many cleaning cycles to keep from banding, so we monitor the nozzle plate with a high speed camera while jetting and was astounded by the misdirected nozzles.

If you truly feel this is some sort of sales pitch I'm sorry, It's not about trying to corner any market it about making a product the best it can be.
If we went away from this after are research we would then be causing ourselves and end users grief.

For those of you that have open systems here is an easy check to know what I'm taking about.

Do a head cleaning and take a picture of the nozzle plate, it should look pretty clean.
Print a 1440 x 1440 white ink block say 10 x 10
stop the print or unplug your printer before it has a chance to finish or run a cleaning cycle and take another look at the print head.
Notice the white haze?

That's what I'm talking about.

I will post some of our pictures later this week in the Belquette area.

Im perpared to get oposition about this but it's in the best interest of the end user.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

damn i just knew you would have quoted me before i edited the last bit out


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Renee, Love the technical stuff by the way... regarding the proper jetting of ink; in my practical use of this technology, I've noticed that there is some misting that happens while the head is putting down ink. In a low humidity environment AND on longer runs, is there not some buildup that happens on the print-face that effects the accuracy of the dot and also make it more likely that some ink will dry and form blockages? Nice info in how riology effects how the head is able to jet the ink. I'll have to think about my use of distilled water as my solvent of choice.


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## ReneeMarlea (Sep 6, 2007)

sodrisc said:


> damn i just knew you would have quoted me before i edited the last bit out


LOL, no offense anyone that has had direct contact with Belquette know we are about facts and not taking advantage of anyone.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

ReneeMarlea said:


> "...........
> 
> Do a head cleaning and take a picture of the nozzle plate, it should look pretty clean.
> Print a 1440 x 1440 white ink block say 10 x 10
> ...


 
I guess you answerd my question.... I'd love to see those pictures


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## ReneeMarlea (Sep 6, 2007)

> Nice info in how riology effects how the head is able to jet the ink. I'll have to think about my use of distilled water as my solvent of choice.


Distilled water or (Windex) cannot jet correctly through an Epson head because it requires the correct surface tension and will actually repel against the inside walls of the nozzle passages. This in turn will cause the piezoelectric element that has the air pocket to heat up and cavitation will start to occur.
Since garment inks are heat sensitive (curable) you are actually helping it stick to the inside wall of that element.

That's why the correct flushing (cleaning) solution is so important.
You are actually causing your own grief and expense thinking that you are saving few dollars, but you just end up paying for it later and loose a bit more hair in the process.


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## ReneeMarlea (Sep 6, 2007)

> I guess you answerd my question.... I'd love to see those pictures


I will post them later under the Belquete area, they tell a real story and something that most people have never seen.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

ReneeMarlea said:


> "......cavitation will start to occur.


 I need graphics



ReneeMarlea said:


> "...... loose a bit more hair in the process.


I have none more to lose! Thanks for the great post


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

When we bought our Flexi-jet the posted and video taped recommendation was 50/50 Windex in the cartridges when not using white ink. But some of the the cartridges themselves ( our first set but not our second) were damaged by prolonged exposure to the cleaning solution- narrowing the channel that feeds the ink. Many recommendations by various manufacturers and distributors have not been thoroughly tested until years after production and sales began- therefore the thousands of users of the earliest garment printers from a variety of manufacturers have done our own testing.

So back to cleaning solutions. *Every solution I tested has been either sold or recommended by the manufacturer of my printer, its distributor, and/or the ink manufacturer*. But they do NOT all perform the same nor are equally effective. Also not all colors responded the same to the solutions. I did not state above that I tested on two different brands on CMYK ink- with similar results. I'd love it if someone had several solutions to test on white ink also. As stated above, my tests included 3 different private labeled cleaning solutions and Clog Protection solution either provided when I bought my printer or bought from its distributor, plus original formula Windex.

I simply want to know if anyone else has observed this phenomena or would be willing to test your cleaning solutions to see if they gum or ball up the ink or smear it as opposed to diluting it and making it easy to clean up? This may help give a clue as to why different users of the very same inks have a wide variety of clogging problems- or like myself, virtually no clogging at all.

Anyone want to put it to the test?


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## ReneeMarlea (Sep 6, 2007)

> When we bought our Flexi-jet the posted and video taped recommendation was 50/50 Windex in the cartridges when not using white ink.


Correct, at that time we were going on what others have done, it seemed a reasonable solution and was cheap.
But over time we have discovered that this can have long and sometimes very short term repercussions.

Since we have more data we understand that this is now not our procedures for channels without ink, as any manufacturer you make changes based on your findings.



> therefore the thousands of users of the earliest garment printers from a variety of manufacturers have done our own testing.


Most if not all of the recommendations were based on existing ink delivery systems and procedures carried out using open systems since they where so openly available and have been used for years. The caveat was that the garment inks where quite new in development quite a different animal, so in retrospect really needed to be handled differently.
This is why I'm providing our new findings.




> I simply want to know if anyone else has observed this phenomena or would be willing to test your cleaning solutions to see if they gum or ball up the ink or smear it as opposed to diluting it and making it easy to clean up?


Experimenting with cleaners to clean residual ink from the inside of your printer is one thing but not to run through your ink system.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

sodrisc said:


> of course you want to push a closed system that way you corner your market on consumables swelling profits in the process and i have no doubt you have all sorts of "proof" to back it up with...........


Trust me on this, the ink bags cost more to produce and yet the pricing of the ink is still at $280 a liter. Some inks are higher than this and some are lower than this. If Belquette really was trying to close the market and gain higher profit margins, your cost per liter would be closer to $400 not $280. The process of degassing and bagging is an expensive and time consuming process and only a fraction of that cost is passed on to the consumer. I would say, this is very good for the end user.

The one drive I have always seen with Belquette has been innovation. They need to make money like anyone else, but when you have a printer that was a one of a kind item like the FlexiJet, now you have at least 3 to 4 other machines that are "emulating" it, that tells you something about what Belquette is about. They are leaders in the industry and not followers.

Now as to the cleaning solution, have you tried witch hazel? I have used it for years in inkjet applications and favored it over windex. I'd be interested in seeing how it reacts to the ink in your testing. It is an astringent but is not harsh like an alcohol. I think there is testing being done to see how it reacts to the head, but like I said, I've used it for years (with no breaking down of glues, etc.)


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

JeridHill said:


> Now as to the cleaning solution, have you tried witch hazel? I have used it for years in inkjet applications and favored it over windex. I'd be interested in seeing how it reacts to the ink in your testing. It is an astringent but is not harsh like an alcohol. I think there is testing being done to see how it reacts to the head, but like I said, I've used it for years (with no breaking down of glues, etc.)


I have heard from a few other people that they use witch hazel wipes to wipe down their print heads. I may get some and give it a try. I still have a few different brands of ink around to try it on.

It seems to me that using a solution for flushing the printer is different than jetting it- as long as you don't actually print with it. In cleaning cycles it seems the ink is more being sucked through than jetting through so may avoid some of the problems that may occur with jetting things other than the OEM Epson inks they were originally designed for. Just a thought.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

You want a cleaning solution with similar surface tension to the ink, especially if you are planning on letting it set for any period of time. Cleaning solutions manufactured by the ink companies have similar surface tensions to the ink itself.

Renee has made some great points. I'm not sure how much money folks think we all make on cleaning solution, but I'll be glad to swap profit margins with any apparel decorator anyday. Besides, if we really wanted to make extra money we would encourage folks to use some of these carpet/toilet cleaners so we sell more printheads and capping stations.


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