# NEW Pretreatment Machine that is ACTUALLY OUT...not coming soon.



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I just saw this video on YouTube of a new pretreatment machine for dtg printers from Equipment Zone - YouTube - SpeedTreater

Looks pretty simple and quick. I made a quick call into Equipment Zone (Equipment Zone - The Screen Printing and Digital Printing Equipment Source) and got to speak to Harry who posts helpful things on this forum all the time. This pretreatment is the first one that I know is actually shipping now (not in the standard "two weeks"). It has three containers on the back of it to hold two different types of pretreatment and one for water to clean the system. If you look at the platen, you will see a ruler that will allow you to ajust the Y-axis of where the pretreatment will be sprayed as well. From what Harry said, it is pretty quiet and only makes noise when it is spraying or the built-in air compressor is recharging. It runs off of 110 Volts of electricity.

Sad to say that I forgot to ask the 2nd most important questions (i.e. What is the price). Maybe Harry can post this answer here and if I missed any other things about it. But the most important question is that he has them ready to ship. That is good news for the white ink dtg owners that have been asking for one of these machines for a long time.

Contact Harry if you have additional questions.

Mark


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## Titchimp (Nov 30, 2006)

Looks nice, the fact that its shipping is a bonus too


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I talked to Harry a while back and I believe it is around $4000 for the pretreatment machine


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Impressive. I'm really considering a auto-pretreat now, not because I cant pretreat manually but because my workspace just got reduced and need something that I can use inside an office without being so messy.


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## Robert72 (Aug 12, 2006)

Humm, I don't know if it's the video, but, doesn't the pretreatment look uneven?


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## the funk (Aug 8, 2007)

That is pretty speedy.


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## dt (Aug 12, 2007)

the pretreatment look uneven to me too


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I think it might look a little uneven but if you are brushing your pretreatment in after the spray anyways, it should even itself out with brushing I would think. I would brush down the fibers anyways myself, as I have always got a better print by brushing after spraying


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Can you change the X axis as well? Seems like it would spray the entire width of the platen


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

Question, why would you buy a $4000 dollar machine to do what a trained employee @ $10.00 hr can do? My understanding is pre-treatment can last up to 10 months. With a Wagner Sprayer for under a $100 why would you want to?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Hi John,

I have heard that you can pretreat ahead and store them but my own experience as a user, is that more then a week ahead they do not print well. Freshly pretreated shirts print best. I have noticed that if they sit for longer then a week the prints do not look as nice, and the ink does not lay as nice. I would like a pretreatment machine for the simple fact of having the overspray contained and ease of applying compared to using the wagner.


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

I know that USSPIT has already shipped some pretreatment machines.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

When I look at pre-treatment machines I see one thing - cost per shirt. What value do you place on having the shirt automatically pre-treated? If you say a quarter, then the pre-treat machine will need to do 16,000 shirts before it becomes profitable (assuming $4000 price tag). If you say a dime that number grows to 40,000 shirts! From what I have seen (including prototypes we have built) the pre-treat machines also waste a lot more pre-treat than the "manual" method soes, also adding to the cost of pre-treating. I think that $1500 would be palatable to most folks, maybe even $2000, but above that is really starting to push the cost/benefit barrier.

JMHO


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I also agree with Don. Before any shop goes out an buys any pretreatment machine, it has to make good business sense to do it. I am big on how long something will ROI itself out, but I look at several things that are specific to each and every single shop. For example, when pretreating...
1. How long does it take for you (or an employee) to pretreat a shirt the manual way versus using a machine? Better yet, can someone else even do the process of pretreating a shirt correctly?
2. How much space do you have in your shop? Do you have enough room to pretreat shirts safely away from the printer or do you have to go outside to do it?
3. How many shirts (probably have to do # out of 100) are not pretreated enough or done improperly and you don't know until after you print on it?

The key with a machine is the consistency it provides. #3 is the one that will save you the most money because you will be wasting time on the printer and ink. Thus, the standard quarter that was mentioned as a value of a pretreated shirt goes up much higher if you have a significant fail ratio due to the wasted cost (i.e. the cost of the shirt, cost of pretreatment, labor to pretreat, labor for printing and the wasted ink). So how valuable a pretreatment machine is or how fast someone can ROI it out is going to be shop specific.

Just my opinion,

Mark


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I agree with both Mark and Don on this one.

Another good thing about the machine is that if you hire a new employee, there is no need to train them with the wagner sprayer which can take awhile to learn.


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## rowdy moose (Jun 18, 2008)

You also should consider the drainage and exhaust system very carefully. Just because it is enclosed does not mean all that mess just disappears, it has to go somewhere. The fumes will still creep out if there is not a proper exhaust system.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

We don't have an exhaust in our shop. We have a pre-treatment room setup with filters in the ceiling. The only place we've found it creeping out is on the floor where people track it out by shoes.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

It is my understanding that there is a large, built-in waste tank on the machine that gets the overspray and water used for cleaning. Not sure exactly about the fumes... but I don't think that is a huge problem with pretreating as Adam mentioned.


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## YoDan (May 4, 2007)

*A price would be nice*, come on Harry let the cat out of the bag  
Dan


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## Attitudes (Oct 3, 2007)

Robert72,


> Humm, I don't know if it's the video, but, doesn't the pretreatment look uneven?


I agree, two nozzles spraying, heavy at both ends, creating two paths.

Don-SWF,


> I think that $1500 would be palatable to most folks, maybe even $2000, but above that is really starting to push the cost/benefit barrier.


I also agree with Don.
~ ugh, I can’t believe I just said that....... 

DAGuide,


> 1. How long does it take for you (or an employee) to pretreat a shirt the manual way versus using a machine? Better yet, can someone else even do the process of pretreating a shirt correctly?


I would accept a longer time for the process, if I get consistency from the machine. I also want “anybody” to be able to use the machine. Not just the employee who “has that touch”. You know, the guy who’s out sick today.... So it needs to have a short learning curve.


> 2. How much space do you have in your shop? Do you have enough room to pretreat shirts safely away from the printer or do you have to go outside to do it?


Exactly, not something I want to try to do in 110-122 degrees in Arizona. 
Or during the Monsoons we get every year. The system also needs to be portable for different venues.


> 3. How many shirts (probably have to do # out of 100) are not pretreated enough or done improperly and you don't know until after you print on it?


Again, as you said repeatable consistency is king!

Again, I don’t want, nor will I have the option at venues, to do this outside. So I would also need the longest and widest platen possible for all over prints.

Just my two pesos,

Don


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I bought this machine. Several have been delivered already, which is a plus, and mine is scheduled for delivery this week. I bought it for several reasons. 

1. You can use it in the same room as the printer. A huge advantage for space. It can also be used in a mobile setup, which would allow easier PTing of shirts than doing it outside at a fair or market.
2. We do a high volume of shirts and while the ROI may take a couple of years, for me there is a convenience factor that is hard to put a price on.
3. Anybody can run it. No special care is needed.
4. It does not (at least I hope  ) call in sick.
5. As Mark pointed out, it is also difficult to value out the cost benefit of repeatability. 
6. It is much faster than doing it by hand. An employee can actually PT a few shirts while waiting on one shirt to finish printing.
7. Don, the actual cost of PT per shirt goes down. According to Harry, in his testing this method actually uses LESS, not MORE, than PTing by hand.

Of course all of this is based on taking Harry at his word. In all of my dealings with Harry (I have been a customer since I bought my original Tjet over 3 years ago), his word has always been good. I will have extensive testing result for everyone next week.

The look of unevenness is caused by the lighting and reflections, just like some pics of shirts make them look uneven or pitted. Harry assured me when I asked him about this, that the shirt on the video had a very even PT.


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## YoDan (May 4, 2007)

Well Marc, since you bought one maybe you can share as to the retail price of this machine  
Dan


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

YoDan said:


> Well Marc, since you bought one maybe you can share as to the retail price of this machine
> Dan


I thought Bobbielee already posted that it was about $4000?


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> Don, the actual cost of PT per shirt goes down. According to Harry, in his testing this method actually uses LESS, not MORE, than PTing by hand.
> 
> Of course all of this is based on taking Harry at his word. In all of my dealings with Harry (I have been a customer since I bought my original Tjet over 3 years ago), his word has always been good. I will have extensive testing result for everyone next week.


Good to hear. I'm not questioning Harry's integrity at all. My observation was based on seeing a few different units run and then sure seemed to waste a lot.

Zilla - If there is anyone to test this it would be you.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

For pricing info I would contact Equipment Zone.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Rodney said:


> I thought Bobbielee already posted that it was about $4000?


That was the price Harry qouted me when he was in production of the machine. It may be a bit different now that it is finished. I havent talked to him since he started shipping it 

Mark I am really excited to hear your feedback once you start using it  I for one am really looking forward to there being a good pretreatment machine out there, and one I can put in the same room as my printer. That was one of the nice things Harry told me while he was building it, and it would save me time from having to run back and forth from different rooms. I also like that I wont have overspray everywhere where I currently do my pretreatment. That to me makes it more then worth the investment.

I also like the fact that it has a built in line for distilled water to flush the system with. It really sounds like he covered all the basis with this one.


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

Can the machine hold more than one type of pretreatment at a time? I currently use a pretreatment for darks and one for lights.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

Two PT's and a cleaning agent!


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## rwshirts (Dec 5, 2007)

Anajet has a neat pre-treatment booth, with a vac system for exhausting the fumes, for around $1500, but it is still manual spraying.


RW


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## Attitudes (Oct 3, 2007)

Zilla,

I'll be waiting to hear your experiences.  

Anyone know if this machine will be displayed at LBC?

Don


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

No it will not.


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## Wags (Jan 28, 2007)

Why? Way too much money for ease of use. I will still pre-treat with the Wagner until costs come WAAAYYY down. As a side note, we made a real nice spray booth that virually eliminates any overspray problems. Didn't cost a lot but keeps our shoes from sticking to the floor .


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Here is a page that contains more pictures of the new pretreatment machine - 
http://equipmentzone.com/speedtreater/pictures.html.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

Wags said:


> Why? Way too much money for ease of use.


I believe that is to generic of a response. I agree if you are selling shirts at low margin, and low volume that statement may be true for some. However, if you are doing 1,000 shirts a week, or you are getting premium retail dollars for your shirts then the statement does not apply. Even at just medium volume of 300 shirts per week, that is about .25 per shirt over a year. If you amortize it over 3 years, then it is just .08 cents a shirt. For me, that is incredibly cheap.

This, like most things in life, is not a one size fits all. However, if any of you wish to volunteer to properly spray pretreat my shirts for $.08 a piece, I have a position open at my shop.


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

Has anyone got a price from Equipment Zone or Harry?


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

make it .10 cents and I am in. When do I start?


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Printzilla said:


> However, if any of you wish to volunteer to properly spray pretreat my shirts for $.08 a piece, I have a position open at my shop.


Well, at least you have the cost of living is pretty cheap up by you. Just watch out for the torandos and freezes.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Uncle John said:


> Has anyone got a price from Equipment Zone or Harry?


From Printzilla's post you can sort of work out the pricing from his numbers.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

csquared said:


> make it .10 cents and I am in. When do I start?


You are hired!! When can you be in TN? 

You get no days off, no health benefits, no vacation, sick, or personal time. 

Heck, I will even be generous and offer you a 10% raise to $0.11 per properly treated garment.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> torandos


Wasn't that a car made by GM in the 70's?


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't want to break the forum self-promotion rule, but, since we've been asked, the introductory price of the SpeedTreater Automatic Pretreatment System is $3,995. 

Harry


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## DonegalTs (Jul 16, 2008)

i know im going to sound really stupid but what is a pretreatment machine for?


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

DonegalTs said:


> i know im going to sound really stupid but what is a pretreatment machine for?



A pretreatment machine automatically sprays pretreatment onto a garment. Pretreatment is what makes white ink stick to the top of dark garments. Currently most people use a Wagner Control Spray paint sprayer or a similar device to spray pretreatment onto garments by hand.

Harry


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## looneytees (Sep 11, 2007)

When switching between the light and dark pretreatment do you have to purge the lines first as not to dispense the wrong pretreat for at least the first change over shirt? or is there two seperate nozzle sets for each fluid?


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

The SpeedTreater has three containers. Two are filled with pretreatments and one is filled with water. To switch between pretreatments, simply run one cycle of water in between. The switchover should take under a minute.

Harry


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## Belquette (Sep 12, 2005)

> the pretreatment look uneven to me too


This heavier edge is caused by the nozzle pattern spray shape. There are literally 20,000 different types of nozzle spray tip combination's that can be chosen. 
To do it right you should not need to actually touch or wipe the fabric after the application otherwise you are introducing your own variable and will not get consistency.

This pre-treat process is equally as important as the actual printing process so any anomaly you see in the pre-treat will directly be reflected in the final print.

The correct application of this process is a bit more involved then meets the eye. 
Research in this area continues to forge ahead for an optimum solution.

Mark
Belquette Inc


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

Mark,

I very much appreciate your input. I know that its rare to agree with a competing manufacturer but I think most of your points are very true. The pretreatment process is a crucial part of getting an acceptable print with white ink. Certainly, the correct application of this process in an automatic system is much more involved then meets the eye. That is why our people here spent many months, going through more then 50 test mules and numerous spraying systems, before we felt we got it right. We then tested the SpeedTreater here and out in the field so that before we started selling it we could be sure it would work well day in and day out. 

Harry


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## corakes (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi! Anybody using this machine already ???
We bought the pretreatment booth from Anajet last week (we ordered it before I found out about this new machine...). The booth is fine if you want to 
pretreat the shirts indoor but we are looking for an automatic machine.... so : any users in here ???


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I was surfing the web and came across a new video on this pretreater. Here it is - [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3X3Gn34CKk[/media]


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

I found this video yesterday and at $2,000 it sure seems like a better deal that the Anajet booth @ $1,500


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

John the machine cost is $3995, not $2000  Still not a bad deal though for what it does.

Susan there is already someone using this machine, Printzilla has bought it and is using it in his shop  So far so good, have not heard any complaints. 

I too am looking into getting it in the future, just need to get past back surgery first


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

See what happens when you get old, things like prices seem to slip. Bobbie I hope and prey your back surgery goes well and your at full strength soon after. Keep us updated as we value you and you posts.
John


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

sunnydayz said:


> I too am looking into getting it in the future, just need to get past back surgery first


BobbieLee, sorry to hear about the back surgery. Hopefully, you come out with a back like a teenager! Best wishes!

Mark


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Yep Mark and then it will match my brain  and I can get back to printing.


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## rhl (Jul 2, 2008)

Has printzilla posted a review of the pretreater? I purchased this and have had the techs out twice. The unit came with no instructions other than "just keep adjusting it until it's right" with no information on what amount of pretreatment is right.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Here is a link to the thread that Printzilla was doing for his review http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t57864.html, I wonder how it is working now, maybe he will be here soon to update


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## Royb (Dec 20, 2007)

All comments on this string are correct, but we all know the importance of Pretreating correctly. The Down sides and the Upsides.
So what is a good answer ? take a look at this link.
DTG Digital Europe

This model is a little slow but it is the prototype the production model is faster.

The important features of this machine is : adjustable and controlled delivery of Pretreatment Volume, able to print just the area of the design (Even if it has blank spaces in the pattern) or a large rectangular shape if desired. Controlled by the pc, Takes the hit and miss element away.

But no more wasted areas or overuse of Pretreatment fluids.

The big upside is you get a finished garment ready to bag and sell on.


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## vinyl signs (Dec 26, 2007)

Royb I have a question! If the pretreater and the printer are not one machine how does the pretreatment only go down in the printing area? Does the pretreater and the printer have a registration system? From what i know no two printers print the exact same they are close but not exact so how does one correct for this?


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

The thing I don't like about this machine is that its not good for doing batch pretretments, inkjetting pretreatment is simply far to slow. It might be great for once-off pretreating but I would think most people do their pretreatment in batches before printing.


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## Titchimp (Nov 30, 2006)

zhenjie said:


> The thing I don't like about this machine is that its not good for doing batch pretretments, inkjetting pretreatment is simply far to slow. It might be great for once-off pretreating but I would think most people do their pretreatment in batches before printing.


 
My guess would be that the idea is that you set up a production run so that by the time the printer is finished printing one, the pretreatment machine will have finished the next one. Meaning no time is wasted, but obviously it means you have someone running multiple things all day.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Titchimp said:


> My guess would be that the idea is that you set up a production run so that by the time the printer is finished printing one, the pretreatment machine will have finished the next one. Meaning no time is wasted, but obviously it means you have someone running multiple things all day.


Yep I'm certain it will be beneficial to many people, especially the registration thing. But in my business only one person works at a time, so doing it is batches is how we do things. If you're working a pretreatment machine concurrently with printing, you'll be on your feet all day going back and forth.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

Zhengie's observation is the same as our own thinking when we developed the SpeedTreater. With a spray cycle time of 6 seconds, our SpeedTreater automatic pretreat machine allows you to spray 3 to 4 garments a minute. Because of this the SpeedTreater can service several printers at a time if needed. An electronic spray length control controls the amount of pretreatment. 


[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efZowo38HHo[/MEDIA]



Harry
Equipment Zone


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## Royb (Dec 20, 2007)

All the 3 or 4 previous comments are ofcourse correct, however this machine was developed to try to support all types of users of Direct to Garment Printers, from a single machine shop with a hand spray gun and further.

This new system, does have an easy to use registration system the can be incorporated
to all DTG Printer models.

One of the main features is that you put the precise amount of Pretreatment exactly where you want it. That is controled by the PC.

The optional heat press can also produce a useful companian to the PreJet machine alowing the drying of the pretreatment without double handling. Must be a time saver.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Just curious, but given how difficult it can often be to ensure 100% firing nozzles (which should be done every day before you start printing digitally), how are users going to overcome this problem with a machine that is spraying a (very sticky) CLEAR liquid? I would think that it is going to be very difficult to tell, visually, whether or not a test pattern looks right, thus making it more difficult to guarantee "more consistent results" than models with an industrial spray mechanism..... Sorry, until I see some changes in PT formula, I am pretty wary of trying to inkjet print any sort of PT solution; let's figure out how to make the white ink jet without clogging, then we can turn our attention to pretreatment. Of course, that's just me. 

I like the idea, and I like that they are trying something different..... But there are a lot of questions about this. I can also see how the application time could be a concern; that is considerably slower than any other PT machine out there! However, for someone like me, I could see a machine like that set up next to my printer, contributing to a workflow process that included pre-treating each shirt immediately before it was printed. Given the relatively costly nature of some PT solutions that are out there, spraying ONLY the image area can actually help save small business owners LOTS of money, over time. I don't think the process will add too much stress to a single worker's day; all you are really doing is loading the shirt once, unloading it once, but setting it on the PT machine while the previous shirt is on the DTG machine. Since darks take awhile to print on any DTG printer, there shouldn't be any decrease in production.


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## Royb (Dec 20, 2007)

Hi Justin

Well, that is exactly what we have had done, a refomulation of the prtreatment ensures reliability of all nozzel's firing with minimal head cleaning. It works great in the new PreJet machine.

The new pretreatment has been tested with the Top inks available around the world and works well offering the same opacity and washability that all have become familiar with.

We too think it will be a great success especially for the digital printers that don't like to make a mess in the print shop with all that airboune pretreatment that you get from using a spray style machine or the conventional hand held spray gun.

Hope this helps all printers


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

Interesting!

So is this a 3rd party pretreatment or a new Dupont pretreatment? Any light-colored pretreatments?


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