# embroidery set up fees



## GriffinGear (Jul 24, 2006)

what's with places charging 50 dollars just to set up the logo?

if the art is provided in a clean vector format would it be less work to import/convert it to the correct format?


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

No. Digitizing is an art all in itself. Yes there are programs that will accept vector files and all you do is fill them in but you still have to know what your doing and the software isnt cheap.
I believe our Wilcom software is around $15k+. So that in itself is a reason.


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## GriffinGear (Jul 24, 2006)

thanks for the reply. I tried to get some stuff done at a place that offers free setup is the logo is simple enough. my logo has a circle with 3 stripes and 3 crowns inside it.they said it would be AT LEAST 50 dollars to set up, while my father in law got his logo set up free at the same place, and his was super complex with a guy on a parasail, gradients, stripes, many colors... plus text! not only that but his was done from scratch since his logo was just something he pasted together in MS paint or something.

just wanted to know if providing a clean vector helped at all. sounds like not too much huh?


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## ftembroidery (Nov 25, 2006)

Dan,
My wife is an outstanding digitizer. Believe me, you cannot just scan in a piece of art, nor import it into your digitizing software as an electronic file, push a button and magically have it digitized in such a way that it sews well and LOOKS GOOD. Yes, you CAN let the digitizing software "do its thing" and sew out the results, but dollars to donuts, it'll look like crap. 

It takes YEARS of experience to "know" how to digitize something so the shirt won't roll up or pucker, so the design won't be warped and twisted. It is also necessary to digitize a design differently for each type of material and garment, such as a piquet polo shirt, a cotton-twill dress shirt, a 5-panel or a 6-panel hat. Is the hat structured or unstructured? And so on, and so forth.

You see, there is a LOT of WORK involved in digitizing a logo for embroidery. At least there is, if you want it to look good, and remember, if you're using it as a type of advertising to get more business, or you're selling to a customer, you only get one chance to make a first impression. How you want others to see you and your product is something that should be on the forefront in your mind.


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## scpromos (May 27, 2006)

GriffinGear said:


> thanks for the reply. I tried to get some stuff done at a place that offers free setup is the logo is simple enough. my logo has a circle with 3 stripes and 3 crowns inside it.they said it would be AT LEAST 50 dollars to set up, while my father in law got his logo set up free at the same place, and his was super complex with a guy on a parasail, gradients, stripes, many colors... plus text! not only that but his was done from scratch since his logo was just something he pasted together in MS paint or something.
> 
> just wanted to know if providing a clean vector helped at all. sounds like not too much huh?


It doesn't matter if the logo is in clean vector or not. I supply my digitizer with jpg's (that's what he asks for). The embroidery tape is hand punched (at least by my digitizer). It's not the same as screen printing. A well digitized tape makes all the difference. It's definitely worth the money to a find and pay a good digitizer to create your embroidery tapes.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

GriffinGear said:


> they said it would be AT LEAST 50 dollars to set up, while my father in law got his logo set up free at the same place, and his was super complex with a guy on a parasail, gradients, stripes, many colors... plus text! not only that but his was done from scratch since his logo was just something he pasted together in MS paint or something.
> 
> just wanted to know if providing a clean vector helped at all. sounds like not too much huh?


In our case, providing a clean vector surely helps, if it's done in such a way as it's "fit for embroidery digitizing". Overlaps, fills and layers are the most important factors here. I agree with everybody that there should be considerable payment for digitizing job because:

1) The software is too expensive
2) It takes a very long time for a person to be good at digitizing
3) An embroidery machine is also expensive
4) Making a sample for client approval requires a lot of time and resources

However, you make a very good point, and have all the right to question the embroidery shop charging you when your logo is simplier, and you provided a very good clean vector as a source file; yet your father's super complex and "done from scratch" logo gets digitized for free. Could it be that:

1) Your dad is able to convince the shop that he plans to order a lot of his logos, so that the embroiderer just waived the digitizing fee.
2) The embroidery shop already has a very similar digitized logo on their file, and they just added text to that old file. Maybe your Dad, by saying that he's starting from scratch, the embroiderer was given a lot of freedom to choose from their stock digitized file library.
3) By showing a clean vector of your logo, you are telling the embroiderer to make exactly the same logo, or else you will not be happy and they will have to redo the job. If they get the perception that you maybe unreasonable, or you have the highest standards, they will anticipate problems along the way, and thus will want to charge you more.

I wish there's an easy way to explain, but the fact is, there's no standard yet for pricing the digitizing work in embroidery. It's a very common case wherein a shop charge you 100USD, and when you take the same logo to another shop, they will charge you only 10USD. Or you take a logo now, the shop takes a look at it, charge you 100, you say no, and asked a friend 3 months later to take the same logo to the same shop, and now he's charged only 10usd, and you will not have any idea why. Some digitizers also charge by the number of stitches, but when you take a look at it, a 1 foot circle would take the same amount of digitizing time as a 1 inch circle.


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## GriffinGear (Jul 24, 2006)

thanks for your replies, i have a much better understanding of what's involved. to answer Byron, just in case your're curious:

1) he ordered 4 pieces, the minumum order.
2) the logo was entirely custom, made from a photo he supplied that is unlike anything they'd have on file (how common is powered paragliding logos pre-digitized that look exactly like this man in his photo?)
3) my logo is so simple and clean I really doubt they'd be worried about replicating it with precision

oh well, I ended up scrapping the idea I had anyways due to the costs...was a LOT more attractive with the setup fee waived.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

GriffinGear said:


> thanks for your replies, i have a much better understanding of what's involved. to answer Byron, just in case your're curious:
> 
> 1) he ordered 4 pieces, the minumum order.
> 2) the logo was entirely custom, made from a photo he supplied that is unlike anything they'd have on file (how common is powered paragliding logos pre-digitized that look exactly like this man in his photo?)
> ...


Hey Dean, did you ask them how much you'd have to pay for a 4 pc minimum order? Add this to your 50usd setup fee, and compare that to your dad's 4 pc total, 0usd setup fee? Also, if your logo is too simple and small, your per piece embroidery cost could be lower, and you could end up saving a lot on your repeat orders. Conversely, your Dad might be paying more on his repeat orders, thus the shop will be able to recoup the waived set-up fee. The possibilities are endless. My advice is to try another shop. And if it's really simple, who knows, some guys here could do the digitizing for you for free.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

GriffinGear said:


> the logo was entirely custom, made from a photo


I wonder if they have a software program that converts a photo into a sewing file. They could then wrap text around the 'picture' without any true digitizing time.

Any of you have or heard of such a software package?


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

> Any of you have or heard of such a software package?


Ive seen some advertising in the past couple years but havent checked into them.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

Fluid said:


> Ive seen some advertising in the past couple years but havent checked into them.


It seems like I've seen the ads somewhere also. It would be a product that I could sell if the package wasn't to expensive.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

I'm using the lower basic digitizng level of Pulse DG/ML. I've seen in a brochure that the highest level has an "autodigitizer" and a "stitch image" feature. I'm not sure if you'll like the outcome though. I think, it's advisable to use the autodigitizing only for stitch count estimation. And for the "stitch image" feature, maybe the output will only be acceptable if the final stitch image is very large, say more than 2x2 feet. Could this be what you're looking for John?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I have software that will do photos but there are alot of color changes to make the photo sew and look right. I would only waive a design charge if it were a stock design(that i own already) and some text added. This is a way to make it their own w/o the custom digitizing. I also charge both a set up fee and the digitizing fee. I will waive the set up fee for orders of 12 or more, but the digitizing fee is still there. I will waive both fees for orders of 4 dz. or more. People who worry about fees are normally not familiar with the industry and howthings work.


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## pazazmarketing (Aug 4, 2007)

We are new to embroidery and we have digitizing software. How do we take an jpeg photograph and digitize for a jacket? We are clueless of the steps we need to take. We do not want to waste a great deal of time. As we all know - time is money!  Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated!
Tracy


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

To answer the OP we don't charge for digitizing. We offer an out-the-door price on all of our work. Over several hundred pieces, digitizing comes out to pennies per piece so we don't bother giving our customers a low price for sewing and then bang them for digitizing, color changes, locations, etc. It make my life simpler and our customers really like it because they know their price up front with no surprises. 

We even digitize and do a sample sewout without charge or obligation to sell the job. 

The best part is we still make a fair profit.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

You really have "innovative" and "revolutionary" ideas, Fred. Nowadays, It's good (for the business) to be different, and it's like having a "purple cow".

Tracy, you import the jpeg file into your software, and trace/apply stitches on every part of the design. Sound simple, but it's not, and experience is really the best teacher here.


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## draig (Jul 29, 2007)

I don't charge a set-up fee or charge for digitizing itself, but I do let the customer know that if they want a copy of the design file then they will be charged. Had no complaints so far.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

The only problem I see with the "no-set-up/free digitizing promo", is when a customer orders only 1 or 2 samples, with the promise of ordering in bulk, then after paying for only those few samples, they may never show up again. Maybe a "full rebate" on the digitizing fee when they make a bulk order is much better.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

vctradingcubao said:


> The only problem I see with the "no-set-up/free digitizing promo", is when a customer orders only 1 or 2 samples, with the promise of ordering in bulk, then after paying for only those few samples, they may never show up again. Maybe a "full rebate" on the digitizing fee when they make a bulk order is much better.


i dont do that. if they want one piece then they pay full bore.


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## rndubow (Feb 18, 2007)

Digitizing has a cost and to give away something that costs money only cheapens the product you are giving away. An experienced digitizer has spent countless hours learning the skills of what it takes to produce a quality piece. In addition to that, there is a significant investment in equipment both computers and embroidery. How can anyone just ignore that and give their services away? poor business model in my opinion. I understand bundling the digitizing cost into an order and telling the customer that you have done that, but to come out and say it is free implies that your time, material and expertise isn't worth anything.I know I can't work for free and when someone expects me to do so, they can go elsewhere.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

As the software to auto digitize gets better and better the skilled digitizer will be squeezed just as the skilled sign painter has with vinyl and cutters and the skilled screen printer has with automatic screen print machines. 

I compete for a lot of small jobs which do require discounting the digitizing where possible. These allows people to buy embroidered products that normally would not have. 

These people were never and probably never will use your skills so you loose nothing. On large jobs digitizing is a few pennies per piece so the cost is easy to amortize over the entire job. 

Will skilled digitizing go away? Not soon. Is it threatened? I sure is. As the software gets better and less expensive, Wilcom dropped there price by 50%, more shops that do embroidery will do their own digitizing with less skilled people and more sweat shops will pop up to do it for me for less because they can. 

As far as quality, if the customer likes the final product then the quality is fine. After all, we are very critical in our own playground but the customer typically just doesn't care as long as they get what they want.


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## rndubow (Feb 18, 2007)

You are correct in your assumptions that digitizing will continue to evolve just as it has over the past 16 years that I have been in the business. When I purchased my first, so called automated digitizing system from Gunold I paid over $40,000.00 for it. Today you can buy a top of the line digitizing system for a fraction of the cost. The price of digitizing has obviously dropped sine my early days when i could get $20.00 per thousand stitches without blinking. However, a computer is a computer and there is nothing more valuable than an experienced quality digitizer creating a design. If a design is digitized poorly, which I have seen many of over the years, there is nothing that can be done to make it look good on a garment. 
In my opinion, the programmers and distributors of digitizing equipment and embroidery equipment should substantially increase their pricing for their products. Over time it would help in making sure when someone gets into the industry they are sincere and only want to perform their tasks at the highest level of quality and not to the level of a consumer who doesn't know any better. It would allow the true professional to have a higher perceived value for their product and make sure they were able to maintain profitability to stay in business instead of competing against people who don't know any better. It would also allow the programmers of the software to have the money and profits to re-invest in their products and only make our quality better, not necessarily quicker. This is never going to be an industry where you will walk into any Best Buy and buy a digitizing system. It will always be somewhat of a targeted, limited market and I personally don't mind paying the price so my vendors will be in business when I need them. in the big picture price of equipment and software in our industry shouldn't be the main focus of anyones purchases. It should be, who is going to support you and be there for you as you grow your business. Anyone can sell a cheap product but you can't make up no or low margins with volume.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

I completely agree with everything you mention. The industry is being commoditized.


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## ex8face (Dec 27, 2007)

I used to charge by the thousands of stitches but after having a guy come in wanting some huge but simple military logos sewn on a blanket, I realized I was making a killing off him and was not making enough on the little designs which can take longer to make. I now charge like a mechanic would. I use a little timer (like for chess) and as I am working on a design I keep track of my hours. No matter how simple the custom work is I charge $20. If it takes more than 20 min. it is $60/hr. and the first hour is charged on the 21st minute of work. The reason for this is because customers will ask you to make changes all of the time and I was not being reimbursed for my time. I run a small shop and every minute of my day is valuable. This has worked out well for everyone. Customers are never surprised by the cost because They are given time quotes for digitizing their logos, if more time is used we eat it because after 25 years in the industry, if we can't tell how long a job is going to take we should not be doing it. If a guy comes in and orders 144 shirts, we still do not waive the fee. Why? Because we do not have to. I have quality work, I will keep your design on file forever, I will make it for polos, caps, beanies, tees, hoodies, jackets, even shoes if you want. We have been in business for 25 years and will have your logo for 25 more and our work is guaranteed. If we do your logo and it is not what you asked for, I will do it again. Tell some fly-by-night shop with an auto-digitize feature to beat that deal.


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