# Could I get in trouble with this?



## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

I asked this in the General T-Shirt area, but I thought I'd ask here too.

I had someone approach me wanting me to make rhinestone transfers (no shirt) that said "SPURS". It is just a basic Arial font with an outline and inline. Could I get in trouble with the NBA's San Antonio Spurs?

Then they asked me if I could do the same thing but add a western looking spur design under the word Spur (not the SA Spur's Logo). Is this just taking it too close to the logo?

So do you think at least the first option would be okay to do? I'm feeling pretty uncomfortable about the second option. And I don't want to do either if it is wrong and can get me in trouble.


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## GHEENEE1 (Jan 8, 2007)

I go with my gut instinct, if it feels wrong, I don't do it.


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

I'm very much with Mike here - if it doesn't feel right, don't do it.


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## Jsaladin (May 23, 2010)

depends how bad you want to receive a letter from a lawyer


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## csw (Sep 3, 2009)

you can certainly print either of those designs with no issue from the NBA Team. Off the top of my head I am aware of a town and a high school named Spur, I am aware of a maganize, a bar and a non profit group call Spur and I have printed for three different schools who used Spurs as their mascot - and I'm not from TX or AZ where I imaging the use of Spur or Spurs is much more common. 

You can't create design with the intent to profit from the NBA teams name or logo but the use of the word in an unrelated design would certainly be OK. Off the top of my head the three most common team names we print for schools and youth sports are the Eagles, Tigers and Panthers. Each of these is associated with atleast one Professional sports team and several colleges. We certainly wont print the pro or college logo's but have created many designs using the names.


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## Twanabee (Sep 14, 2009)

Spurs is just a word. If your word does not look anything like their logo and the font is completly different, I think your ok. Even using a spur under the word is fine. I have done something like that for horse shows.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Spurs might be just a word, but it may be trademarked, it would be worth checking.
Just do it


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## csw (Sep 3, 2009)

Creating a new and uniqe design with the word Spur or Spurs and an image of a spur like those worn on cowboy boots is perfectly legal. If you were to run a search of the database for trademarks associated with the word "Spurs" you would find in excess of 500 registering the mark for everything from adult films to vitamins. 

Don't create designs with the intention of profiting off someone elses name, business or efforts. Use your common sense and if you think you could be in the grey area and the design/job is worth the expense consult with an attorney who specializes in this area of the law.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

The attached pic is what I created but I haven't agreed to selling it yet. I know I cannot attach a pic of the San Antonio Spurs logo to compare, but of course you can google it. Do you think my design is different enough?


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I have always been under the impression that a trademark was a specific version of a word....Colour, size, shape, etc.....

A stylized M in yellow that looks like the golden arches is trademarked but most other M s are fair game....


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## Twanabee (Sep 14, 2009)

A trademark does not give the trademark owner a monopoly on the use of a word. It only allows the owner to prevent a use that would create confusion as to the origin of a product or service. A copyright, on the other hand, grants a monopoly on a work.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

> *Could I get in trouble with this?*


No matter what follows this question the answer is almost universally "Yes!... you CAN!"


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## Twanabee (Sep 14, 2009)

Diana. You do not have a problem with the way you are using spurs. Ther is no way that word or logo has anything to do with the NBA team.


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## csw (Sep 3, 2009)

If you marketed this design with other sports items or tried to sell it outside the area on game day then I believe you could get yourself into trouble. Selling this design as part of a western collection or in the manner you describe would be perfectly OK (IMO).


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

The lady that wants to buy the transfers wants to set up in a mall for two weeks this month selling all kinds of items including rhinetone belts, purses, etc (lots of western type stuff). She mostly goes to horse shows to sells her products. 

So no, she will not be selling them outside of a sporting event nor would I.

Thanks for all your advice!


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

> TherE is no way that word or logo has anything to do with...


I am sure that is what the "Monster Mini Golf" people thought when they got that cease & desist from Monster Cable. 

Just because you may eventually WIN your case does not mean that it will not be an ordeal that could bankrupt you with legal fees. 

It does not have to be a clone of the NBA Spurs trademark to be infringing. Are you selling them at a rodeo in Wyoming, or underneath an EZ-UP in the parking lot across the street from the stadium in San Antonio on home game nights?


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## RawDesign (Mar 23, 2010)

PositiveDave said:


> Spurs might be just a word, but it may be trademarked, it would be worth checking.
> Just do it


I am with you on this one, i'd double check on the trademark.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

Well I'm just selling them to a lady in a small town outside of San Antonio....35 miles from down town San Antonio (transfers only). She wants to press them herself on tees or whatever and she is renting a two week holiday space in a mall in San Antonio, but on the north side of town (no where near down town). 

The point is, I cannot control what she does with them, I just want to make sure I don't get in trouble selling them to here as described above. She contacted me to design it, the design I created did not exist until she called me.

I still haven't made up my mind, maybe I wait until I can make some phone calls Monday.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd pass on it... she is obviously trying to piggyback on the local popularity of the local NBA team and that would clearly be an infringement. If something goes down she will throw YOU under the bus/// "THEY designed it... not ME!"

They fact is that the two of you are conspiring to profit on the trading of someone else's intellectual property.


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## Screenbo (Nov 29, 2010)

diana13t said:


> The attached pic is what I created but I haven't agreed to selling it yet. I know I cannot attach a pic of the San Antonio Spurs logo to compare, but of course you can google it. Do you think my design is different enough?


Diana,
What your trying to do is a trademark violation. I am close to san antonio and have done work for the squrs and what your trying to do could cost you some big bucks. I see bootleg shirts all the time at flee markets and report them all the time.
Over the yrs some of my original work has been bootlegged and I go after the offenders with a vengence. Back in the mid 80's Corona beer and Spuds were hot bootleg items and many printers got busted for big money. I am in Bulverde and if I see it, I will report it. Help police our industry because one day some A Hole may want to bootleg your work.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

amen brutha!


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

jiarby said:


> I'd pass on it... she is obviously trying to piggyback on the local popularity of the local NBA team and that would clearly be an infringement. If something goes down she will throw YOU under the bus/// "THEY designed it... not ME!"
> 
> They fact is that the two of you are conspiring to profit on the trading of someone else's intellectual property.


I am NOT, and as far as I know, she is not wanting to sell it as a SA Spurs design. She has all kinds of western products that she sells and that (as far as I know) is her intentions. I would not want to "cheat" or "steal" a design like that. It didn't even cross my mind any association with the SA Spurs at first when she asked for the design because she had described her type of business, but it was my husband that asked me about it when I was creating the design. So I want to be perfectly clear, that this is not some scam I'm trying to pull as SA Spurs knock off.

If I was trying to be a crook, do you think I would be asking for help about this? I had voiced my concerns with her several times and she keeps stating that she is intending to sell it as western apparel.

It's not like I made this design up and advertised it as SA Spurs apparel. I don't even plan on selling it to the general public. And, I still may not sell it to her at all. So I don't appreciate your statement that I'm "conspiring to profit on the trading of someone else's intellectual property".

The fact is, a lady called me asking for a western design to be created per her description. I made it, my husband commented that it MIGHT conflict with the SA Spurs, so I am trying to make sure that doesn't happen.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

Screenbo said:


> Diana,
> What your trying to do is a trademark violation. I am close to san antonio and have done work for the squrs and what your trying to do could cost you some big bucks. I see bootleg shirts all the time at flee markets and report them all the time.
> Over the yrs some of my original work has been bootlegged and I go after the offenders with a vengence. Back in the mid 80's Corona beer and Spuds were hot bootleg items and many printers got busted for big money. I am in Bulverde and if I see it, I will report it. Help police our industry because one day some A Hole may want to bootleg your work.


Screenbo, like I just said in the post above, I do not want this to be a "bootleg" design which is why I'm asking for everyones help on this. I want to help a customer (which by the way, this would be her first order from me), but not at the expense of being morally and legally wrong. So thank you for your help.

I am thankful to all the people with constructive advice instead of those who like to be a jacka** and acuse people of things they're NOT trying to do.


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## Screenbo (Nov 29, 2010)

diana13t said:


> Screenbo, like I just said in the post above, I do not want this to be a "bootleg" design which is why I'm asking for everyones help on this. I want to help a customer (which by the way, this would be her first order from me), but not at the expense of being morally and legally wrong. So thank you for your help.
> 
> I am thankful to all the people with constructive advice instead of those who like to be a jacka** and acuse people of things they're NOT trying to do.


 From what I saw of the design you posted it will be a bootleg no matter what your intention is. When the retailer is caught she will point the finger at you. Its not worth the problems that could come down on you. PS..the other retailers in the mall with licenced Spurs shirts will report her.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

Screenbo said:


> From what I saw of the design you posted it will be a bootleg no matter what your intention is. When the retailer is caught she will point the finger at you. Its not worth the problems that could come down on you. PS..the other retailers in the mall with licenced Spurs shirts will report her.


You have a very good point and I guess it's best to tell her it's not going to happen. 

I'm glad I got some great advice on here and I'm so thankful for this forum to keep ourselves out of trouble and for learning such wonderful information.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

Well I spoke with the lady and told her I really didn't feel comfortable doing that design. But I gave her some other ideas and options that she wants to go with. I suggested maybe we use just the spur design (without the word "Spurs") and maybe add some sayings in metallic vinyl like:

Girls who wear 
(spur design)
know how to ride

or

I like men who wear
(spur design)

So maybe she was just trying to sell "western" style designs. 

By the way, I am still somewhat new to this and I've mostly done schools and organizations with their permission, designs I've created on my own and I am licensed to do A&M designs. I've had people ask me about doing UT designs and I told them no because I'm not licensed. So I'm just trying to figure out (along with a lot of other people on this site) what is okay to do and what isn't. I want to be leagal about things but I don't want to be so over cautious that I refuse work that is perfectly acceptable. 

So my point is, giving constructive advice is needed and appreciated, but the jerks who have to accuse everyone of being dishonest should think twice before they put their snide comments out and persecute people unfairly.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

diana13t said:


> So my point is, giving constructive advice is needed and appreciated, but the jerks who have to accuse everyone of being dishonest should think twice before they put their snide comments out and persecute people unfairly.


My dear Diana,
You want free advice, you take what you get. The fact that some people are seeing this as a rip-off should set the alarm bells ringing. They could be on your jury 
People are generally pretty helpful here, usually constructive and always have an opinion. Don't take a disagreement personally, if someone sees the action that you suggest taking (clearly with reservations) as illegal, it may well be that the Spurs team take the same view. It's helpful and constructive.


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## diana13t (Mar 11, 2009)

Well Positive Dave, clearly you lack reading comprehension skills because even the part you quoted in your response states that I appreciate the advice. I was NOT arguing that I SHOULD be able to use it, I WAS ASKING if it was okay to use (and not in a SA Spurs intent but as a “western design”). And as you can see, I chose not to sell it to that lady based on the much appreciated advice of these members nor will I ever use it myself. 
What I did not appreciate was this statement: “_They fact is that the two of you are conspiring to profit on the trading of someone else's intellectual property.”_
_I was not “conspiring with her”, because if I were, I would have never brought this subject up in the first place on this forum. I just think it’s sad that a person cannot ask for help without getting rude, snide comments accusing them of doing something wrong, when in fact they are trying to do the right thing. That in turn might make people apprehensive to ask a question in fear of being bashed and degraded for their lack of knowledge._
_And what about all those members that told me it would be fine to use, are they all crooks and thieves? I know this forum is based off of opinions and experience and that, more than likely, none of us are lawyers. But getting to hear different opinions is wonderful, and it can be done in a more mature and constructive manner than what was presented above in quotes._
_So once again, I thank all but two of you for your advice and opinions. _


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