# Pros & Con's of Adding Embroidery



## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

We currently have DTG, sublimation, wide format inkjet and vinyl cut in our services but no embroidery.

There is a good deal on the Brother PR1000e at the moment giving you £3k of extra frames for caps, quilting, borders, cylinder etc.

Obviously it's still a modest investment to make but one I am weighing up, would it be fair to say that software is the thing that is the biggest obstacle. You can get the Brother software with the machine at a discounted rate but this isn't 100% compat with Deconetwork without the use of conversion software. The Wilcom software is over £1000.

I'd love to know fellow forumites views on what to consider, if the investment can make good return - it opens up a massive range of imprintables which I currently can't do.


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## Mabuzi (Jul 3, 2007)

We offer the same services as yourself and found we initially outsourced embroidery to a point where its has now become an option to bring in house and Mabuzi is looking at the machine you have looked at too.

It the market is there I woulld say yes, to test the market outsource first.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

If you have the time to learn the machine and the software then it probably is a good investment. It isn't "plug and play". You do have to spend some time learning a lot of stuff.


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## Gecko Signs NT (Aug 3, 2012)

We made the jump into embroidery and our machine arrived last week. We too, weighed up the pros & cons of adding screen print to our services, but went with embroidery as we don't have the volume orders to justify screen print. We have started with a Brother home unit which we will upgrade eventually. For us, we found this the best option, as it gives us time to learn the software. Right now, I have access to PE Design, SEU, Wilcom and one other that I can't remember. I'm starting with PE Design, and yes there is alot of learning to do.
I don't think going into embroidery is one that you will regret. In our market, alot of businesses still require embroidered logos. It's a demographic preference.
Best of luck


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## HardEdge (Oct 19, 2012)

Mabuzi said:


> initially outsourced embroidery to a point where its has now become an option to bring in house and Mabuzi is looking at the machine you have looked at too.
> 
> It the market is there I woulld say yes, to test the market outsource first.


We sourced out embroidery until the amount of money we were paying to outsource equalled what a brand new 4 head machine cost, then we purchased a brand new 8 head. We knew if they were making money, and we were making money, the purchase would work. Still a learning curve, but by outsourcing LOTS of embroidery and asking lots of questions in the process, and watching when allowed, the curve was minimal. We are now running 33 heads with three full time Emb techs.


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## rlaubert (Aug 14, 2011)

I actually started with embroidery and added sublimation and then DTG. You do not have to do the digitizing yourself. I outsource all my digitizing to several web based companies. They are offer 4 hours to next day service and charge around $20-25 per logo (under 5 inches). Much better use of my time. I have a Brother PR1000 as well. Shop around for your pricing. I got mine with double sets of hoops etc for around $8500 new.


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## Stitch-Up (May 26, 2007)

rlaubert said:


> I actually started with embroidery and added sublimation and then DTG.


Ditto



rlaubert said:


> IYou do not have to do the digitizing yourself. I outsource all my digitizing to several web based companies.


We do our own digitising and it's a huge learning curve but saves money and gives us, more importantly, added control over design and quality.

Be prepared for a big learning curve.


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## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

I'm still on the fence, it's a good deal but is the Brother software going to be ideal for me, ideally you'd want Wilcom but you'd need a mortgage to get it


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## rlaubert (Aug 14, 2011)

I looked at digitizing in house. With the learning curve, cost of decent software compared against the contract digitizing that I have been using ($20 per 5x5 or less) it would take over 500 jobs just to break even and that does not include the cost of the labor to digitize.
My work is mainly logos and business related. So far my digitizing contractors have done a great job. Problems I had were my own, such as not telling them the kind of material, location, size requirements, cutting trailing threads etc. I did try about 8 different companies. Have 2 or 3 that I use now. Turn around time is hours to next day and response is really good.
I was told that to really be good at digitizing you need to understand how the machine does things, the different sizes of thread and needles and when to use them, the different types of stitches and what they are used for. I don't have the time for all of that. So contracting makes sense to me.


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## inobu (Dec 29, 2010)

Utero,

A single head unit is good for proofing, small 10 to 20 small logo size jobs. That is about it. 

Larger jobs require multi head units. Trying to do 50 hats or shirts is not worth it. You will have to outsource it. 

I got my single head unit and mt first job was 12 shirts that I out sourced because of time, second job was 100 hats that I jad to outsource, third was 200 backpack that I .....outsourced. 

I had a reorder of hats and those were really profitable as I made a phone call and waited a few days. 

So my first jobs were done without me powering up my machine. 

The jobs are first. If you have enough jobs coming in then get the machines.

Get a few sample and hang them up. That's cheaper than buying a machine and has the same impact on the customer. 

Oh the sample hat cost me $80 but the company credited back on the large order.


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## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

That's the market I am in, I don't go out for the larger jobs. I am more one-off's, small runs. So from what I gather, text and basic logos are pretty easy to learn, more detailed stuff outsource the digitizing until you can master it yourself.


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## inobu (Dec 29, 2010)

utero said:


> That's the market I am in, I don't go out for the larger jobs. I am more one-off's, small runs. So from what I gather, text and basic logos are pretty easy to learn, more detailed stuff outsource the digitizing until you can master it yourself.


I have found that embroidering is a catch 22. 

Everything is backwards. A single head unit should be in a store and a multi head unit at home. 

Here's why. 

You can't run a single head unit at home because you will be sitting around waiting on the machine to run wasting time. 

Running a multi head unit in a store front will have you tending to the machine neglecting the store front. 

So it should be vise verse but it does not make sense setting up a multi head unit at home as you need a lot of space. 

The one off market is dangerous for the beginner because one mistake will not only take away from your profit it can put you in the red. 

If Bobby brings you a letterman's jacket and you mess it up not only do you have to get another jacket you need to finish the job. At least with large jobs you can factor errors in if you are providing the piece. 

In essence you have to double your price to cover the error factor which reduces the number of jobs you may get. 

A simple polo shirt will cost you $10 to $18 add a 7 dollar run job and you a have $17 product. Mark it up $34 add $6 digitizing $40. 

How many of these customers are you forecasting. 

Getting the machine is easy the hard part is running them and getting a steady flow of customers. 

Now we come to the machine. You have to get it dialed in plus you need to know the setting for each kind of material you are going to use. What works for one person may not work for another. Just as one file may render a job flawless where as the same file on another machine look crappy. 

It is not as easy as one may think. Once you have all the setting and bugs worked out is it a breeze but until then be ready. 

Fortunately for me I am not reliant on the embroidering so I can take it slow. 

If I were you I would take a few hundred dollars, find a whole sale guy and have him make you a product line and display them. If the customers start coming in then you have a good indicator for making the move. 

If you want the machine just to say you have it (Like me) then at least you are aware of the intent in the investment. 

Everything I've said here is based on my experience which transpired in the last year or so. 

Good luck and hope this helped you out. 

Inobu


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## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

I don't have a shop front as standard, most of my business comes online and through other businesses. Having DTG etc, I don't really take on jobs where someone brings their own garment in, opens up the possibilities of errors costing you money.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

A single head machine will get you into embroidery but you really can't make any money or profit with it. You need at least a 4 or 6 head machines. 

If you do this, do it to learn the ropes and then plan on buying up to a 4 head or larger in a few years.


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## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

Why do you say you can't make any money off it, I use deconetwork so you have the digitized artwork and if I was selling a cap which cost me £2.50 and sold for £25, that's good margin. Like I've mentioned I don't deal in the big order market.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Sure you can make a profit on an item but you can't make enough to live on. 

The amount of time to sell one cap, buy it, pay for it, get it, digitize the design, transfer it to the machine, set the thread, hoop it, trace it, run it, trim it, get the invoice together, collect on it are all of your costs in addition to the price of the hat. 

But if you sold 500 hats with the same design you wouldn't get near that price and you would have to stand in front of that machine for around 40-60 hours to get the job out the door. This is why you need more capacity. 

We did the single head machine bit for 5 years when we purchased a 4 head. Now I have so much work for both of them I still need more capacity. The 4 head is great for banging out a lot of work in a short amount of time. If we had a 6 or 12 head we could do even more but we just don't have the space for it.


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## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

Understood but for 1-3pcs of a hat, shirt etc with basic lettering, surely there is some money in it. If I ever had a 500 cap order I'd farm it out. Just thought it would open up a wider range range of substrates to personalise in 2013 which aren't possible with DTG/Vinyl/Sub


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

I don't disagree with you. I did it with a single head for 5 years but I couldn't possibly survive now with only one head. Even with the single and a 4 head we have a 30 day backlog, maybe longer, on embroidery. A single head gets your into the biz. When you are booked 24/7 then you need to add capacity. That is all I am saying.


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## RickyJ702 (Jul 23, 2012)

i've been in embroidery for about a year. i've learned that in embroidery takes alot of time and effort to understand it. let it come to you naturally rather racing to make that money. i've made alot of purchases on overstocking 3d foam, appliques and thread. After that i had to get a hoopmaster which was out of my budget but had to get it. I started with pe-design 8 which came with my pr-1000. once you understand your program and your machine. . . .throw your pe-design 8 away and get pulse or wilcom. you'll have to relearn your software through online classes or take the route i took by going to atlanta at wilcom headquarters. you could just hire digitizers to do your jobs but you won't understand your machine or how thread works. it's like letting someone else drive your car everyday. 

If you are excited and willing to learn new stuff then get it. I was the one in my team to go this route and it worked out well within and outside my brand. your going to have to learn to love the part of embroidery rather just making it a piece of your workshop.


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## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

I think I'll leave it for now, it's more to do with the software, to get something like Wilcom is a huge investment in itself and even though the machine can be bought at 0% apr, it looks like 3-4 months of that would be spent learning so that's a modest amount of money to find to cover the cost


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