# Starting point for Embroidery Tension



## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

I understand how to adj tension so that the backside shows 1/3 thread, 1/3 bobbin, and then 1/3 thread. My question is how do I verify the my bobbin tension is set correct to begin the adjusting? I dont feel comfortable doing the "drop test". Thanks Troy


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I hate the old drop test. We use a Towa bobbin guage and get perfect repeatability. Keep the bobbins set the same and adjust the top tensions from then on. Just be sure to keep the bobbin case clean, especially under the spring where the firch builds up.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Perfect. Do you test it every time you put in a new bobbin? Also do you test all tension every time you put in a new bobbin?


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## astitchinthyme (Nov 16, 2009)

leave well alone, once set mine lasts for months if not years. Just put a finger nail under the tension spring and blow out any fibres each time you put a new bobbin in. Using magnaglide bobbins cured all my tenion problems but make sure you ditch the internal spring if you use them.


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

Having "1/3 top - 1/3 bobbin - 1/3 top" on the backside of a column stitch does not necessarily indicate proper thread tensions. This 1/3 rule only indicates that the relationship between top and bottom threads is correct. 

It is possible to have a perfect 1/3 ratio and still have improper thread tensions .... eg. if both top and bobbin tensions are too loose, the machine can still produce a good 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 stitch. 

To set machine thread tensions, always properly set bobbin tension first either by using the drop test method or a bobbin tension gauge [which is more accurate and consistent]. Once bobbin tension is set, then set top thread tensions using either the 1/3 rule or a top thread tension gauge [again, more accurate and consistent].

Bob


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Tension guages? Where do I find these?


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## Say Anything (Jun 16, 2009)

Tension guages would be nice. I too am having an issue getting my bobbin tension down right. I really don't know where to start. When I try to adjust the bobbin, seems like it just gets worse.. no matter which way I turn the screw... or by how much. It started off looking more like 1/3 thread to 2/3 bobbin... the more I mess with it it just mixes both, plus the top has more bobbin than thread... 

confused?.?


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

Tension gauges are available from most good machine dealers and embroidery suppliers so check around.

Bobbin tension gauge

Towa Embroidery Bobbin Thread Tension Guage

Top thread pencil gauge

Embroidery Thread Tension Gauge

A good tool that every embroiderer should have.

Bob


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

I find that there is an extremely fine line between too much bobbin tension and not enough. An 1/8 of a turn of the screw is a very large adjustment. The drop test is way too much tension. I find that the bobbin needs to almost free fall with just a little drag. 
I'm a big fan of tools but have stayed away from the bobbin tension gauge because I didn't think it would be able to detect the very slight difference in tension between too much and not enough.


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## Say Anything (Jun 16, 2009)

HEY GUYS!!! I'm excited to announce that I have my Barudan UP AND RUNNING AGAIN!!! It turns out that it was not my bobbin, it was my thread tension. I do want to share though, for those that are not too experienced... like myself... I've noticed that the tension for different colors of thread are totally different...
The only reason that I noticed this was... I use needles 1-5 for colors that I use most often 1-white
2-black
3-royal blue
4-mustang red
5-kelly green
the rest are colors that I dont use too often.... but the reason I say this is... my needles 1, 3, & 4 all did great on the "I" test ... my #2 was ok.. not great.. so I started a job that included my #1 and #2 needles for a logo, #1 being the main color. The white turned out GREAT!.. but the black kept having thread breaks and frays.... it was very frustrating... so I thought... ha HA! I'll show you black!.. I figured since the #1 needle was great, I would rethread the black to the #1 and use it... but much to my dismay, it was worse on the #1 needle and kept tossing the thread up top. SO.... I put it back on #2 and tweaked the tension to be more so than the white... and PRESTO, like magic!! 

anyway I'm attaching the finished product (a school blanket) so you can see what a weeks worth of headaches and a few advil will turn out to be if you keep pushing through the road blocks.

Thanks again to all that have posted, all of your help was and is GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Josh


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

As embroiderers, we can all understand having a problem and the relief that comes with solving it. 

Quality stitching requires proper machine thread tensioning and for as confusing as tensioning may seem to some, it is actually very simple .... first set the bobbin tension correctly and then set top thread tensions. 

The easiest and most accurate way of setting thread tensions is with tension gauges. 

The gauges also help in other ways. Using the bobbin tension gauge, will quickly teach you that not all brands of pre-wound bobbins are created equal .... some are excellent [smooth running and consistent] and some are crap.

The top thread tension gauge will allow you to diagnose upper thread problems [dirty tensions disks, bad thread, etc.] before these problems start to effect the quality of stitching done by the machine.

If I was king of the world, every embroidery machine would come with tension gauges and every machine owner would use them ???

Bob


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Isn't it wonderful when you finally figure it out? Congrats to you for getting your machine running smooth again. Great work on the blanket.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

I have a 4 head Tajima TFHX and am just learning about fine-tuning. We had multiple problems, but things are improving.

To obtain the results I think I want on the "thirds test", I have had to turn the bobbin tensions WAY back. The bobbin case springs are barely adding tension at this point, but even at that, I have to turn the top thread tension up a lot...to get thirds. I've been only sewing on one thickness of backing for these tests. Perhaps I've needed to read more about this procedure. I'm doing the drop test for bobbins, but It's hard to tell how hard to drom my hand. =o( 

Any other tips?


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

The 1/3 test is a useful indicator of top thread tensions only if your bobbin tension is correct.

When setting machine thread tensions, always properly set bobbin tension first, then set top thread tensions accordingly.

Although embroiderers do use the drop test method to set bobbin tension, many will find a bobbin tension gauge easier and much more accurate. Tension gauges are also a good way to get a better handle on understanding machine tensions.

One of the first things we learned when using the bobbin tension gauge is that not all brands of pre-wound bobbins are created equal .... some run smooth and consistent, many do not.

Bob


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks for the reply, Bob. However let me restate this a little bit for clarity. (I don't have a Towa Bobbin Tension Guage, and until I can get one, which will be a few days at least, I need to get close.) 

For weeks now, the women operating the Tajima have been sporadically complaining about poor embroidery. It's my machine, and I need to step up my game on tuning it, and I am a RANK BEGINNER, but it's not black magic or voodoo. I am aware that all Machine's operate within the predictable rules of physics, and I simply do NOT grasp these rules very well as of yet. You, and several posters here, are WAAAAY ahead of me in this endeavor. 

So here's the nugget of my current exercise--and I am wording this VERY carefully. I can't really loosen these meticulously cleaned bobbins much more (or at all....) without having them "free fall" using an extremely gentle drop test. Loosening the adjusting screw an almost imperceptible amount-like a 1/64th turn maybe- will IN FACT allow for free fall. NO "bounce" at all. And yet to get the TOP THREAD to overpower the Bobbin Thread on a satin stitched 1/4" column to the degree that there is anything approaching THIRDS, I must tighten the Tensioner AND Pre-Tensioner to nearly their Max settings. I don't believe I could get a visual "ALL BOBBIN" result at all. That just seems all wrong to this farm boy brain, so maybe I'm doing something wrong. 

To further explain, I am stitching on 1 (one) backing sheet per hoop--non tear-away--and the puncture holes are stretched out a lot. Perhaps 2 sheets, or sewing on fabric with backing would change the dynamics radically, but I doubt it. 

I'm trying to be clear here, but I'm so new at this tuning stuff. We bought this business 2 years ago and none of us even knew about bobbin tension adjustments until last week, when the wailing from the sewing room finally drew my attention away from screen-printing. Everything has it's own learning curve.

Thanks to all of you for your consideration! Ping me off-line, and I'll PM you a phone # if you think it'll help.

Stan


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Say Anything said:


> I use needles 1-5 for colors that I use most often


Josh, you might want to re-look at this depending on where you have your machine. Ours backs to a wall so we have to pull the machine out to get behind it. From that perspective, it's a pain to re-thread the center needles compared to the outer ones... we put black/white/silvers/blues/red that we use the most on the center needles and use the outer needles for the colors we switch frequently. It also seems to reduce the amount of time/travel for a lot of the color changes if the most fequently used colors are in the center, hence they are closer together.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

tfalk said:


> Josh, you might want to re-look at this depending on where you have your machine. Ours backs to a wall so we have to pull the machine out to get behind it. From that perspective, it's a pain to re-thread the center needles compared to the outer ones... we put black/white/silvers/blues/red that we use the most on the center needles and use the outer needles for the colors we switch frequently. It also seems to reduce the amount of time/travel for a lot of the color changes if the most fequently used colors are in the center, hence they are closer together.


It all depends on how difficult it is to get to what needles. Needles 1-5 are the most difficult for me to reach so that is where I have my most used colors.


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

Stan

Sorry ... did not understand the problem first time around. My fault. The way I am reading it now, you can not loosen the bobbin thread enough and/or tighten you top threads enough to get the 1/3 ratio on the back of a column stitch.

Some of the following may seem elementary or obvious or have already been done but I don't know what you have or have not tried to this point.

1) is the bobbin installed correctly in the bobbin case and is it threaded correctly ? When looking at the open end of the bobbin case, the spool should rotate clockwise when pulling the thread.

2) have you tried removing the bobbin case tension spring and thoroughly cleaning the underside of the spring and the bobbin case area under the spring ? Using alcohol and a q-tip works well for this.

3) have you installed a new bobbin case ? Bobbin cases do wear out and do eventually require replacement. Be aware that there are some "no name" bobbin cases available which do not perform all that well.

4) are you using prewound bobbins or winding your own ? It can be difficult to get good consistent tension on bobbins you wind yourself.

5) if using pre-wound bobbins, is it a good quality ? Not all pre-wound bobbins run well. The ones we found to be best are NEBs [plastic side], Coats Tru-Sew [paper side] and Magna-Glides [magnetic, no sides]. "No name" and even a few brand name bobbins tend to run poor.

6) do you have an anti-backlash spring installed in your bobbin cases ? If you do, have you tried removing it to see if you get better bobbin performance .... results often vary with the type / brand of bobbin used.

7) have you dismantled and cleaned the top thread tension disks well ? Dirty disks make it difficult to get enough tension on your top threads. Again, using alcohol and a q-tip works well.

8) have you checked to see that your entire top thread path is correct and clean ? Incorrect pathing and / or a dirty thread path can effect top thread tensions.

9) have you changed anything just prior to noticing a decline in stitch quality ? Opened a new box of bobbins, using different top threads, had some new construction going on in the building, using new operators, etc.

Bob


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## Say Anything (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to clear everything up, my last post was to explain what my thought process was... prior to finding out that the issue after setting my hook timing was not with my bobbin, it was my thread tension. I just wanted to let other "green" embroiders know that there is light at the end of their tunnel of headaches.

My machine is working like a champ. I've cranked out a few blankets for our local school (we are in the 3rd round of play-offs), and I've made a few promo local business shirts that I'll take and try to stir up some business. 

Again, thank you guys so much for all of your help.

BTW (oldkush) - I like the way you format your responses. It makes reading very easy for a newbie, I know it may seem elementary to some.. but for someone who knows absolutely nothing about these machines.. your post give a solid direction for us newbies to follow.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

oldkush said:


> 1) is the bobbin installed correctly... Nope. Didn't know it mattered. Duh.
> 
> 2) have you tried removing the bobbin case tension spring....alcohol... Nope. Just high pressure air and careful inspection.
> 
> ...


Bob, I'm sure glad you had a chance to read my clarified issues. Thanks! 

You are exactly right. I doubt I can *FORCE* my machine into a top heavy balance condition with regard to tension--at least on any "thirds test" I can devise. I even downloaded someone elses thread tensioning thirds test in a Tajima.dst. format. No real difference. I can achieve decent 3rds but only by WAAAAY backing off the bobbin tensions, and turning up the top tensions pretty high. 

Bobbins are all right on the cusp of free-fall, and measure ~20 grams on my Chinese Cheapo Top Thread Tensioning Guage. (I know. Wrong purpose, but it does confirm, in my mind, that the bobbins are on the low side of acceptable tensions.)

In order to read reasonable "thirds" on a satin stitched, 1/4" wide column, I have to set the top tensions to measure ~160 grams of drag. I do this while drawing the thread slowly out from under the presser foot, after verifying that the thread path is correct.

You have given me some other avenues to check. This forum is wonderful, and you certainly have MY FULL ATTENTION. I've gotten a slug of screenprinting, and software information too. Truly a monster resouce. Cudos.

Stan


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

I'm not familiar with your machine, but on mine there is a little tension spring the thread runs through on the primary tension wheel. Those springs are adjusted on my machine by turning a screw in the top of the tension knob counter-clockwise until the lever doesn't touch its stop any more, then turning it back JUST until it touches. I find mine tend to tighten over time and cause some real odd sewing problems until I reset those.

Don't know if that's helpful or not, but is a problem that caused me some discomfort until I understood it.


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## Stan Hoover (Jan 28, 2009)

*Re: Starting point for Embroidery Tension Update*



AndTees said:


> I'm not familiar with your machine, but on mine there is a little tension spring the thread runs through on the primary tension wheel. Those springs are adjusted on my machine by turning a screw in the top of the tension knob counter-clockwise until the lever doesn't touch its stop any more, then turning it back JUST until it touches. I find mine tend to tighten over time and cause some real odd sewing problems until I reset those.
> 
> Don't know if that's helpful or not, but is a problem that caused me some discomfort until I understood it.


Thanks!

On my Tajima, each thread runs between 2 smooth disks on each of the 2 tensionsers. It will occasionally, though rarely, vary in tension because of fuzz buildup between those disks. It is easily cleared with air and/or a Q-tip with alcohol.

The GOOD news...at least for this thread, is that a combination of things seems to have my thirds test showing decent tensions.

Here's what seems to have helped:
1) I switched to Magna Glide Bobbins which helps on consistency (although I'm not sure about what seems to be more fuzz in the bobbin cases)

2) I cleaned a tiny waxy/oily slug of junk out from under most of the bobbin springs. 

3) I turned the bobbin tensions down to what seems to be minimum tension to avoid freefall during the drop test, 

4) I was able to get "thirds" with upper tensions in the 100 to 110 gram range. 

Adjustability is now reasonable, in that I can overpower the bobbins with top tensions, and vice versa. I could barely overpower the bobbin tensions before.

I do have another issue, which I will address in separate thread, after searching first to see if a thread already exists. (ie: occasional frays and missed stitches after a trim requiring restart.)

We are sewing much better now. Thanks to all!

Stan


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