# Mug sublimation color issues on Sawgrass



## Allisonsubbing (Jan 24, 2019)

Question: The image was created using Procreate on the ipad, and I’m using the Virtuoso Sawgrass interface on Creative Studio to print. Printing using Virtuoso Print Manager on a Mac. 

The image was created with a very vibrant cyan/turquoise blue. When it prints on the TexPrint paper, it is more subdued and muted (which I’m used to — but it seems like the TONE of the blue is completely off). And then when it prints, it’s a very pale turquoise color that doesn’t even seem to be in the same family as what is showing on the screen and on the page.

By tweaking the color profile in Photoshop and overriding the color profile in Sawgrass I get a more “sky blue” instead of turquoise, but it’s still not right. After troubleshooting a bit, we think maybe that the ICC color profile for the Sawgrass needs to change to sync up to the same color that we are seeing.

Does anyone know what ICC color profile the Sawgrass printer uses and what settings I may need to change in either Creative Studio or Photoshop?

Would be eternally grateful if this VERY SPECIFIC question can be answered.


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## Twisted Grafix (Oct 5, 2016)

Your computer screen shows color using RGB color. Your printer uses CMYK to print. If you design the image using RGB color, you will have a color shift every time you print the image. The image that prints will ALWAYS look different from what is transferred. This is why an ICC profile for the printer is an absolute must for any sublimation printing. 

You can try to combat this by printing and sublimating your color palette onto the same substrate you are going to use. This way, you can see the actual colors as they will appear on the item after being designed in RGB, converted to CMYK through the ICC profile and printer onto the transfer paper, then put through the heat process to arrive on the item. 

The other way (more reliable) is to use Pantone colors to design. Do the same thing with the Pantone color palette and it will show you not only what the colors look like, but what is in the printer's color gamut range of printable colors. The screen will show muted colors, but you can reference the sublimated chart to see what color will print. For instance, PMS300 shows a muted blue on screen, but will sublimate as a nice medium blue, almost royal blue. PMS 287 shows close to the same hue as the PMS300 on screen, but sublimates the same as the blue in the American Flag. 

The transfer paper also has an effect on color saturation, which affects the vibrancy of the final image. It might be beneficial to try out a couple other papers to see which one gives you the best image quality. We use TextPrint R and very rarely have issues, but we also used a few others before we decided that this one worked the best for us.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Twisted Grafix said:


> Your computer screen shows color using RGB color. Your printer uses CMYK to print.
> 
> That is not correct. All non-postscript printers are RGB unless you have a RIP software installed. Although the carts are CMYK the printer is expecting RGB data and the printer does the conversion to CMYK on it's own.
> 
> ...


I made some markups above.


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## Twisted Grafix (Oct 5, 2016)

mgparrish said:


> I made some markups above.


Just merely posting what works in our shop. Other's experiences may vary.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Twisted Grafix said:


> Just merely posting what works in our shop. Other's experiences may vary.


I understand, one can print even without an ICC profile for sublimation, it "works" but not to say it's a good practice.

What I'm posting is from the experts and considered best practice. I've been sublimating since the early 90s (even before inkjet sub) and learned all this stuff the hard way.

http://www.corel.com/content/pdf/cdgsx5/Color_Management_Guide.pdf

"P11

"As a rule, you should choose RGB as the ptrimary color mode unless your documents are to be printed on CMYK presses in a Postscript workflow.


P21

"Not everyone one realizes that non-Postscript (GDI) Windows printers can only accept RGB data. 
When you send CMYK or Grayscale colors to the GDI printer, these colors must be converted to RGB by the application,
there is no other way and CorelDraw Graphics Suite is not unique here.


P31

On the other hand, choosing the Adobe RGB (1998) color space and the RGB color mode for workflows where digital photos are printed on an inkjet printer is the right move.

GDI (non-PostScript) printer drivers used by most inkjet printers accept only RGB color data, and even low-end inkjet printers cas reporduce some colors that fall well
outside of the sRGB gamut buy are within the gamut of the Adobe RGB color space.


p37

GDI (non-PostScript) printing

GDI printers expect RGB color data, so all non-RGB colors in a document, such as CMYK or Grayscale, must be converter to the printers RGB color profile.
It's a good idea to design your document entirely in RGB if all you plan to do is prin5t to a GDI printer."


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## Twisted Grafix (Oct 5, 2016)

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, and we do use an ICC profile from Sawgrass in Corel with the document settings per Sawgrass. I was just saying that you can pull the colors off the PMS palette in that workspace and get better color accuracy and consistency compared to using the RGB palette that gives a color shift. There are always more than 2 ways to get to the same result.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Twisted Grafix said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you at all, and we do use an ICC profile from Sawgrass in Corel with the document settings per Sawgrass. I was just saying that you can pull the colors off the PMS palette in that workspace and get better color accuracy and consistency compared to using the RGB palette that gives a color shift. There are always more than 2 ways to get to the same result.


If you print in Pantone you will not get color accuracy ...

1. Even with a calibrated monitor those colors will not match printed vs. onscreen.

2, Pantone was designed for high end printing with printers that are calibrated that way. Pantone is a **CMYK** system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantone

3, All printed sub transfers will "color shift" when heat pressed, doesn't matter if the design data is in CMYK or RGB, Pantone (CMYK) etc. 

...

_IF_ you have an ICC profile, print using RGB and follow best practices for sublimation Color Management, then that will give you the best accuracy. Even with that cheap inkjets are not designed to be commercial printers and give highly accurate color matching, they are design for good photo printing, not for "spot colors" like a calibrated Pantone system would offer. Even using OEM Epson inks.

Having said that even with an ICC profile for sublimation you will still need to "swatch" on occasion to hit that exact color.

Pulling colors off a Pantone chart and sublimating those will not give you _Pantone_ accuracy. Some colors may be dead on, some may be close, some will be far far away. Same can be said about any color mode. 

The best accuracy for Sublimation is 

Work only in RGB, either Adobe RGB1998 or sRGB, depends on what the profile provider recommends and what workspace it was set for.

Use an ICC profile

With or without a ICC profile there will still be times "swatching" is necessary for exact color matching.

Until someone designs a sublimation printer calibrated for Pantone matching then Pantone isn't Pantone anymore.

If your client has a logo with Pantone colors you can match with swatching, you cannot rely on all colors in the Pantone palette to be accurate. But you really can't use Pantone data and expect accuracy sublimating.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

designing in pantone and sending to a desktop printer is not a good practice,
as mgparrish mentioned

your desktop printer is waiting for an rgb file to arrive, 
it will treat your cmyk/pantone file as an rgb and convert it

i think sawgrass expects an sRGB file, not adobe rgb or apple rgb
check to ensure your procreate work-space is set to srgb,
and your sawgrass icc has the final say when printing

and as mentioned above, 
print/press a raft of palettes to ensure your work-space and final result are a happy couple



> One of the biggest mistakes any sublimation decorator can make is to use the wrong color model when choosing colors. CYMK (cyan, yellow, magenta, and black) comprise the basic four colors all inkjet printers utilize. It is easy to make the assumption that, because the printer is using CMYK colors, a design should be created using the CMYK color palette. If CMYK colors are used, it’s not likely the color you are looking for to come out the same on the finished item. *This is because CMYK is a set of very specific color instructions meant primarily for the offset printing world.* When we are sending art to a desktop printer, the print driver is responsible for translating the information it receives into CMYK. So what color model should colors be chosen from then?
> RGB (red, green, and blue) are the colors that create the images we see on every computer monitor, digital projector and television available. There are 16,581,375 colors that can be created using the RGB color model. RGB is commonly used because it is how the human eye sees color. There two basic kinds of receptors in the eye, rods and cones. The rods are what see black and white, while the cones communicate color. The cones are staggered in the eye with specific cones detecting red, green and blue. As this is the case, *the RGB color model is used in many industries and all artwork for sublimation should be designed this way.*


link


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## Shallena66 (Jul 26, 2017)

So..... Where can we download a good ICC profile for the SG800? Sawgrass has just set the virtuoso print manager to not work with 3rd party inks... and since I use 3rd party inks I now have a big ole paperweight.... thanks in advance guys...


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

Your ink supplier should be able to supply you with an ICC for their inks.


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## Amw (Jul 2, 2012)

As said, you should be able to get one from the people who supply your ink. 

Otherwise find someone who has a the tools to make you one.
We use x-rite's equipment to make our own. Making your own will actually give you the best results as every printer is a little different. However it does come with a large cost.

https://www.xrite.com/categories/calibration-profiling/i1-solutions


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## BadZebedee (May 6, 2014)

How do you create an ICC profile for printing on mugs? Do you print on a white tile or other flat surface in order to scan the printed output with the calibration tool or do you run it around a mug (which seems very hard to do)?


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## Amw (Jul 2, 2012)

BadZebedee said:


> How do you create an ICC profile for printing on mugs? Do you print on a white tile or other flat surface in order to scan the printed output with the calibration tool or do you run it around a mug (which seems very hard to do)?


Yes using tiles from the same manufacture.


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