# ISS Long Beach and Conde



## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

So, I've heard from a few folks that Conde has a new paper coming out that is printed with sub inks and can be used on cotton garments. Anyone attend the ISS show and see this new paper in action?


----------



## OSSKOBRET (Sep 17, 2011)

They where rude as usual so after a minute we walked away .
Last time they acted this way they lost a 3 thousand dollar order from us


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Our booth was very busy so sorry. I would like to talk with you. I can be reached at 251.377.6728

Yes we were showing what I think is the first commercial self weeding cotton sublimation paper called Reveal S. It is for graphics to transfer to white and light colored cotton and blends.
The ink sublimated to the emulsion layer and that area is selectively released 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Is it available now or still in R&D ?

Thanks
Mark


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

R&D is finished. Production run now. Ready for orders and sampling mid March.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Conde_David said:


> R&D is finished. Production run now. Ready for orders and sampling mid March.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



David
Great to hear. Any video's up on it yet ? 
Didn't see it on the site. Pricing for it yet ?

Thanks
Mark


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I think we will do videos on Friday or Monday. I got behind due to the show. I think I will get Doug to do them. I really ought to do some videos of the other cotton products that didn't quite make it. Pricing is almost set. Should be attractive. The results are impressive. Writing the article on the product this moment for the NBM sublimation report. I think the product is a game changer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm super excited about it!


----------



## tshirtsrus (Jun 6, 2007)

David,

how is the feel of the finish application?


----------



## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

OSSKOBRET said:


> They where rude as usual so after a minute we walked away .
> Last time they acted this way they lost a 3 thousand dollar order from us


1 minute? They are very popular and this is very unfair. This is one of the best companies to work with for dyesub.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

You can feel the areas that have color just like screen printing. After the first wash those areas are softer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

Suddenly, I can't wait until March!! This sounds like a real game-changer! Even if it has a slight hand? I'm all over it -- the substrates are so much cheaper for cotton and 50/50!!


----------



## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Hopefully a video soon.
Is this gonna requiring marrying two sheets together ?
Any other special needs to use it ?

Thanks


----------



## OSSKOBRET (Sep 17, 2011)

binki said:


> 1 minute? They are very popular and this is very unfair. This is one of the best companies to work with for dyesub.


Not unfair it has been my experience three years in a row
I will say dealing with their reps over the phone is always a pleasure they are always polite and very helpful maybe the people that are representing Conde at the shows should take a lesson from these reps 
On how to interact with customers.
I will say that there was one young man that was very patient and helpful with my wife ( so I was told ) I wish I knew his name so Mr Conde could give him a pat on the back.
The do offer great products


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Thank you for your comments. We only send our reps to shows with the exception of Doug and myself. We did have the developers of the Reveal paper I our booth. They are great folks but that day job is science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ultraprintworks (Mar 2, 2015)

Interested to see the video!


----------



## wrkalot (Mar 2, 2011)

Conde_David said:


> You can feel the areas that have color just like screen printing. After the first wash those areas are softer.


This doesn't sound like dye sub to me.


----------



## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

Dave,

Will the Reveal-S paper allow garment bleed through like what can be achieved with screen printing?

I would assume that the paper includes a "dyeble" substrate that transfers to the garment, and that "un-dyed" areas would transfer as well.

Any other info would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I don't think there is bleed through.

The paper is coated with a high tech emulsion layer. If there is enough ink in a spot, that area of the emulsion will let go from the backer sheet during pressing. As the ink is heated, it sublimates into the released emulsion. That emulsion is melted into the surface of the fabric. So it does not sublimate into the fibers of the fabric like traditional sublimation to polyester but instead is part of the released emulsion. What that means is that you can not do photos well since voids would be the color of the shirt. Also you must have enough saturation to activate the self weeding. 

Inkjet transfer paper can do much of this but lack the self weeding feature. Also the emulsion is very robust to provide excellent wash ability.

We have been successful with whites and light colors and blends.

A dark version is next.


----------



## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

Thanks.

So If I has a design with a large letter "D" in black, the center of the letter D would not contain any emulsion or substrate, just the shirt - and this is what is considered "self weeding"?

Also - what is the planned form factor for the paper - individual sheets or rolls or both?!

Can't wait to see it!

Thanks.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Cut sheet and roll.

Correct. No emulsion in blank areas.

Again, only for whites and lights


----------



## Rankin Textile (Feb 17, 2016)

Conde_David said:


> I don't think there is bleed through.
> 
> The paper is coated with a high tech emulsion layer. If there is enough ink in a spot, that area of the emulsion will let go from the backer sheet during pressing. As the ink is heated, it sublimates into the released emulsion. That emulsion is melted into the surface of the fabric. So it does not sublimate into the fibers of the fabric like traditional sublimation to polyester but instead is part of the released emulsion. What that means is that you can not do photos well since voids would be the color of the shirt. Also you must have enough saturation to activate the self weeding.
> 
> ...


Sounds interesting. Will you guys be in Atlantic City this year at the ISS?


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Yes. Hope it's not too cold!


----------



## Rankin Textile (Feb 17, 2016)

Conde_David said:


> Yes. Hope it's not too cold!


Great, looking forward to it. We are running a booth on the PPAI side. 

40-50 degrees is could for you guys down in Alabama.  Hopefully it will be warmer


----------



## battman2036 (Jan 20, 2014)

Since the emulsion requires a concentration of ink to release, how is this effected by gradients or halftone patterns? Will solid area spot colors be required for a proper transfer?


----------



## wrkalot (Mar 2, 2011)

Conde_David said:


> I don't think there is bleed through.
> 
> The paper is coated with a high tech emulsion layer. If there is enough ink in a spot, that area of the emulsion will let go from the backer sheet during pressing. As the ink is heated, it sublimates into the released emulsion. That emulsion is melted into the surface of the fabric. So it does not sublimate into the fibers of the fabric like traditional sublimation to polyester but instead is part of the released emulsion. What that means is that you can not do photos well since voids would be the color of the shirt. Also you must have enough saturation to activate the self weeding.
> 
> ...


Is this being marketed as sublimation for cotton when it technically isn't sublimation? Just wondering.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I see where your coming from. It is marketed as a method of decorating white or light colored cotton or blends with an inkjet printer using sublimation inks. As far as I know, it is not possible to link disperse dyes to water loving molecules. This patent provides for an emulsion to bridge the two.


----------



## battman2036 (Jan 20, 2014)

Conde_David said:


> I see where your coming from. It is marketed as a method of decorating white or light colored cotton or blends with an inkjet printer using sublimation inks. As far as I know, it is not possible to link disperse dyes to water loving molecules. This patent provides for an emulsion to bridge the two.



How does the emulsion handle fades? My concern is you stated the ink has to be sufficient quantity to activate the emulsion. Want to know the limitations.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

You are correct. Like other papers, like image clip for color lasers, it will be suggested you print a gradient color chart to see the cut in point. 

Watch Doug's video for image clip http://youtu.be/yW6lEz-GKTk

I think this will be the best way to help folks understand your concerns.

this video is not for the Reveal paper but demonstrates what will be necessary for the Reveal paper as its activation is similar.


----------



## TriangleDreamer (Nov 28, 2014)

Any news on the video or the product?


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Sorry. Waiting on production paper to do video.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## flyguy07 (Aug 29, 2014)

Conde Systems has the friendliest and best tech support that
I've ever experienced in the sublimation industry. They have never let me down, not on Friday nites, Saturdays, or Sundays, Conde has always been there for me.

Pete


----------



## AbbyinID (Feb 6, 2016)

Conde_David said:


> I think we will do videos on Friday or Monday. I got behind due to the show. I think I will get Doug to do them. I really ought to do some videos of the other cotton products that didn't quite make it. Pricing is almost set. Should be attractive. The results are impressive. Writing the article on the product this moment for the NBM sublimation report. I think the product is a game changer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking forward to the video. I hope the pricing is reasonable as well.


----------



## Techamongous (Aug 18, 2014)

I cant wait! I keep pestering Larry for a free sample with every order I place once you get it in =) Dont forget me! =P


----------



## Eview1 (Apr 29, 2010)

Add my name to the list of people waiting for this. Can not wait to try it


----------



## complnr (Mar 28, 2015)

Did you make a video with the demos that you did at the NBM show


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I guess I should! Will do tomorrow. Did you come by?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## complnr (Mar 28, 2015)

No I am not there just saw a post on fb that they saw the paper demo there interested in trying the paper out when it comes out. Should I just contact my rep at conde


----------



## DTGDude (Mar 12, 2016)

I thought I saw a video. Sublimate the paper then transfer. It's basically a transfer with too many steps.


----------



## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

DTGDude said:


> I thought I saw a video. Sublimate the paper then transfer. It's basically a transfer with too many steps.


Ya like wow that is way too many steps.


----------



## AbbyinID (Feb 6, 2016)

DTGDude said:


> I thought I saw a video. Sublimate the paper then transfer. It's basically a transfer with too many steps.


Are you talking about the powder that they add to the transfer paper? That's a different type of paper I believe than what Conde is bringing out.


----------



## DTGDude (Mar 12, 2016)

freebird1963 said:


> Ya like wow that is way too many steps.


Haha, love the sarcasm.

I remember there being more steps. If I recall, you print to the paper, then you sublimate it to a coated paper. I was thinking there was another press onto a carrier sheet after that but can't remember. I also know it was a long process. It wasn't quick because of the time it took to transfer to the different papers. In reality, you aren't sublimating to the shirt, but to the coating on the paper.

Abby, it wasn't powder, it was another sheet. I can't find the video anymore, but I'm pretty sure it was Conde showing it. Maybe they took the video down because they weren't ready to show it.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Not us. Just print and press. Same steps as normal sublimation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DTGDude (Mar 12, 2016)

Thanks David, if it's that easy, then I'd be interested! I was almost 100% I saw Conde doing this on video the way I described or close to it.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I am at the NBM show today in Arlington. I will try to shoot a short video.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DTGDude (Mar 12, 2016)

Conde_David said:


> I am at the NBM show today in Arlington. I will try to shoot a short video.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Here is the link for the video:
https://youtu.be/WuiqvjRgHSA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eview1 (Apr 29, 2010)

Eview1 said:


> Add my name to the list of people waiting for this. Can not wait to try it


PS. Thanks for the video I have a LIST of things to try this on I just can not find the instructions on how to use the product.


----------



## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Eview1 said:


> PS. Thanks for the video I have a LIST of things to try this on I just can not find the instructions on how to use the product.


Did you watch the video ? David said that they were still working out the kinks and at this time weren't posting any.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I think we are past any kinks but just tuning the instructions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tshirtsrus (Jun 6, 2007)

freebird1963 said:


> Did you watch the video ? David said that they were still working out the kinks and at this time weren't posting any.


I think he is been sarcastic about it.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't pickup on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## easystickerco (Sep 18, 2010)

Thank you David. Just waiting for you guys to receive the new product so we can place an order.. Sounds like a great product for all those spot color logos, and cool t-shirt apps...


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Getting close!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## api (Nov 22, 2009)

We print light 100% cotton shirts with CMYK DTG printer so for us this new paper is definitely NOT a "game changer", unless:

1.) The size of the paper sheet is large enough, min. 13"x19". 24" roll would be even better.
2.) The price is low enough (under $1/sheet). Our average ink cost is less than that now with DTG.
3.) The washability is as good as DTG, or better.
4.) The gradients, drop shadows are at least acceptable.
5.) The "hand" is not too heavy.
6.) The image won't peel or crack.

The only "game changer" quality would be if we could easily print high quality, durable images on 50%-50% blend shirts. For that the DTG is not so good (without pretreatment) and the sublimation needs 100% (poly) material. For us printing with sublimation ink on a paper and then transferring the image to a t-shirt is much-much slower procedure than the DTG printing, but that would be acceptable if the new paper would fulfill the 6 requirements listed above. 

We will see...


----------



## AbbyinID (Feb 6, 2016)

api said:


> We print light 100% cotton shirts with CMYK DTG printer so for us this new paper is definitely NOT a "game changer", unless:
> 
> 1.) The size of the paper sheet is large enough, min. 13"x19". 24" roll would be even better.
> 2.) The price is low enough (under $1/sheet). Our average ink cost is less than that now with DTG.
> ...


I think it is a game changer for sublimation. I am unable to afford a decent DTG printer and then have to maintain that DTG printer. Also, I'm not that technically savvy to do so either. Just my two cents.


----------



## api (Nov 22, 2009)

AbbyinID said:


> I think it is a game changer for sublimation. I am unable to afford a decent DTG printer and then have to maintain that DTG printer. Also, I'm not that technically savvy to do so either. Just my two cents.


If you print light colored 100% cotton shirts, in my opinion, the DTG printer is the way to go. Don't forget, we are talking about CMYK ONLY printer. (!!) Without white ink, the DTG printing is "walk in the park". 

You can buy a refurbished (or lightly used) CMYK only printer for a few thousand dollars. Maintenance is minimal, and there are no horror stories like with the white ink DTG printers everywhere. 

If the transfer paper is expensive, the sublimation printing is slow, the image quality is not so good, the printed image is thick and heavy, the CMYK DTG printing will be the winner hands down. Again: NOT the white ink DTG, just the CMYK...


----------



## coodiny (Apr 9, 2012)

Your clueless. Sublimation has no hand at all

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using T-Shirt Forums


----------



## AbbyinID (Feb 6, 2016)

api said:


> If you print light colored 100% cotton shirts, in my opinion, the DTG printer is the way to go. Don't forget, we are talking about CMYK ONLY printer. (!!) Without white ink, the DTG printing is "walk in the park".
> 
> You can buy a refurbished (or lightly used) CMYK only printer for a few thousand dollars. Maintenance is minimal, and there are no horror stories like with the white ink DTG printers everywhere.
> 
> If the transfer paper is expensive, the sublimation printing is slow, the image quality is not so good, the printed image is thick and heavy, the CMYK DTG printing will be the winner hands down. Again: NOT the white ink DTG, just the CMYK...


I have read so many problems folks have had with DTG here in the forums. I'm scared to even look at the refurbished or used DTG because I've read it's a nightmare to make sure it runs properly if it's not used regularly. My Ricoh that I've had from Conde since 2012 has run like a champ. Barely any issues. I can go for a few weeks without worrying about clogging, etc. 

Perhaps this topic should be discussed in another thread and leave this one for the new sub paper from Conde. I am interested, if you are saying, that DTG is as easy as sublimation.


----------



## api (Nov 22, 2009)

coodiny said:


> Your clueless. Sublimation has no hand at all
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using T-Shirt Forums


OK, we will see who is clueless: Sublimation has no hand at all (I am doing it every day), but the EMULSION coming from the paper HAS some "hand". At least check out the video that David created for us before posting your ignorant opinions. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuiqvjRgHSA&feature=youtu.be 

(A "Sorry!" will be suffice...)


----------



## coodiny (Apr 9, 2012)

I was speaking on regular sublimation. It doesnt have a hand

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using T-Shirt Forums


----------



## api (Nov 22, 2009)

AbbyinID said:


> I have read so many problems folks have had with DTG here in the forums. I'm scared to even look at the refurbished or used DTG because I've read it's a nightmare to make sure it runs properly if it's not used regularly. My Ricoh that I've had from Conde since 2012 has run like a champ. Barely any issues. I can go for a few weeks without worrying about clogging, etc.
> 
> Perhaps this topic should be discussed in another thread and leave this one for the new sub paper from Conde. I am interested, if you are saying, that DTG is as easy as sublimation.


You are right, I don't want to hijack this topic with DTG issues. What I am saying is that the white ink creates 90% of the problems with DTG, and if you don't need white ink you won't have lots of issues. I wrote about my (absolutely positive) experiences in many topics here, so if you are interested in details, please do a quick research...


----------



## burgertech (Aug 2, 2014)

Please do! Thanks!


----------



## api (Nov 22, 2009)

coodiny said:


> I was speaking on regular sublimation. It doesnt have a hand
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using T-Shirt Forums


And we are talking about the Reveal-S sublimation transfer papers...


----------



## Eview1 (Apr 29, 2010)

Any news yet on this? I have a project and would like to try it

Well I called and had a nice talk with Mr Gross and they are still not ready yet.


----------



## SilverfishTees (Dec 12, 2010)

Conde_David said:


> Our booth was very busy so sorry. I would like to talk with you. I can be reached at 251.377.6728
> 
> Yes we were showing what I think is the first commercial self weeding cotton sublimation paper called Reveal S. It is for graphics to transfer to white and light colored cotton and blends.
> The ink sublimated to the emulsion layer and that area is selectively released
> ...


Hi,

Really excited bout this new product! How do I get on an email list to be notified when it's available?


Thanks


----------

