# When to use rn# and ca#?



## sticnap (Sep 15, 2009)

If I am only selling my shirts in the united states, I know I have to use the rn#, but should I also put the ca# on the shirt? Because the blank shirt I'm using lists both the rn# and the ca#. Although I do plan on selling to Canada sometime in the future. Should I just include it now to get it out of the way? 

On a somewhat related note, if I sell to Mexico do I another equivalent of the rn#? Or do I just need the ca# and the rn#?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

If you're planning on expanding into Canada, you might as well be ready for that now. That way you won't have any problems transitioning (like not being able to sell old stock in Canada because the labels aren't updated). The numbers can be pretty small and out of the way.

As far as I know Mexico doesn't have a registration system. Off the top of my head Canada and the United States are the only places I know with them, though I think there are probably a couple more (it's a big world).


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

Solmu said:


> If you're planning on expanding into Canada, you might as well be ready for that now. That way you won't have any problems transitioning (like not being able to sell old stock in Canada because the labels aren't updated). The numbers can be pretty small and out of the way.
> 
> As far as I know Mexico doesn't have a registration system. Off the top of my head Canada and the United States are the only places I know with them, though I think there are probably a couple more (it's a big world).


Where does one go to apply to get a CA number? 
I can't believe that there might be more countries with their own number requirement. If I want to sell my shirts to every country in the world I will have to have ALL the numbers shown? I'm looking at shirts from Target and I only see RN and CA.


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

This is what I've found out about the CA number so far. You can only apply for a CA number if your business is in Canada. If your business is in the US and you want to sell to Canadian customers you will have to have your company name AND your address on your label. 

That sounds like a strange requirement to me. How many of you have your address printed on your shirt tag? I'm pretty sure most of us in the US have been shipping to Canadian customers with shirts that don't have the CA number or our address on the tag and apparently that's not legal to do.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

tuan said:


> This is what I've found out about the CA number so far. You can only apply for a CA number if your business is in Canada. If your business is in the US and you want to sell to Canadian customers you will have to have your company name AND your address on your label.
> 
> That sounds like a strange requirement to me. How many of you have your address printed on your shirt tag? I'm pretty sure most of us in the US have been shipping to Canadian customers with shirts that don't have the CA number or our address on the tag and apparently that's not legal to do.


You don't *have* to have *your own* CA number or RN number when selling t-shirts. You can just use the RN number (or CA number) for the manufacturer and you'll be fine.


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

Rodney said:


> You don't *have* to have *your own* CA number or RN number when selling t-shirts. You can just use the RN number (or CA number) for the manufacturer and you'll be fine.


Actually I just called the Canadian office that handles questions on the CA number and they told me that if a business is located outside of Canada you can not apply for a CA number. However if you plan on selling your shirts to Canadian consumers who live in Canada you MUST have the following info on your tag as a substitute for a CA number:

1. Fiber content in English AND in French
2. Your company name
3. Physical address of your business

The person I spoke to was very clear and explicit on this.


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

What I want to know is if I relabel my shirts can I use the CA number that was originally on the American Apparel shirt and put that next to my own RN number?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

tuan said:


> What I want to know is if I relabel my shirts can I use the CA number that was originally on the American Apparel shirt and put that next to my own RN number?


You're asking the same question in more than one thread, so it makes it harder to keep up with the conversation 

You don't need to use your own RN number at all. That's an unnecessary extra step.

As I've mentioned, you can just use the American Apparel RN and CA numbers.

If you're getting your own RN number so people don't know which blanks you're using, but then you use the CA number for American Apparel, then people will just as easily be able to find out which blanks you're using by looking up that number.


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

Rodney said:


> You're asking the same question in more than one thread, so it makes it harder to keep up with the conversation
> 
> You don't need to use your own RN number at all. That's an unnecessary extra step.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that I can reprint American Apparel's RN and CA numbers when I do my own label? That is allowed?
Thanks Rodney.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

tuan said:


> So you're saying that I can reprint American Apparel's RN and CA numbers when I do my own label? That is allowed?


Yes, you can re-use American Apparel's RN and CA numbers on American Apparel products, even if you re-label them with your own label. The RN (and CA) indicates the party responsible for manufacture of the product, which doesn't change when you change the label.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I think it is really a bad idea to take legal advice from folks who play a lawyer on a forum......With that said I think you need to make a further inquiry with the "Competition Bureau" in Canada to double check.....


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I called the competition bureau this morning......They say the CA# belongs to the "dealer" who registered it......The original label can not be removed without express permission from the "dealer"....The garment can be re-branded using original CA# if you have express permission from "dealer" whose CA number you are using....


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

royster13 said:


> I think it is really a bad idea to take legal advice from folks who play a lawyer on a forum......With that said I think you need to make a further inquiry with the "Competition Bureau" in Canada to double check.....


I think the "lawyers" that you're referring on this forum are people who have gone through this for a while and have done research on their own so hopefully they know what they are talking about. I think what you're saying about getting permission from the manufacturer to reprint the RN or CA numbers is probably correct but let's not forget that all these shirt makers like American Apparel market their blanks to the screen printing industry so I'm pretty sure the practice of reprinting their RN and CA numbers is known and probably allowed.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Well based on the conversation I had with the Competition Bureau (Canada Government) this morning I know what I think is "right" and how I would do it.....If others want to do their own thing, feel free....


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

royster13 said:


> Well based on the conversation I had with the Competition Bureau (Canada Government) this morning I know what I think is "right" and how I would do it.....If others want to do their own thing, feel free....


I'm sure what the Competition Bureau told you is correct. What I think is that these shirt makers are not going to say NO when you ask for permission to reprint their info so people just do without asking. My screen printer didn't ask me if I got permission from American Apparel to reprint their RN and CA numbers and I'm sure no screen printer who offers relabeling service is going to ask you that. Also for these shirt manufacturers to not allow you to reprint their RN and CA numbers is to say no we don't want you to buy our shirts and you know that's not going to happen.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

This discussion is only about CA number....RN numbers are a different animal.....And I already know it is illegal to re-use an RN number.....


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

royster13 said:


> And I already know it is illegal to re-use an RN number.....


Interesting, since that contradicts everything written previously on the topic - including straight from the source (i.e. the FTC). Could you please share a credible source with the forum? It would be very useful.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Threading Your Way Through the Labeling Requirements Under the Textile and Wool Acts

*Replacing another company’s label with your own40* An importer, distributor, or retailer may want to replace the original label on a textile product with a label showing its company or RN. This is perfectly legal as long as the new label lists the name or RN of the person or company making the change.
*NOTE: *If you remove a label containing required information, the label you substitute also must contain that required information. Otherwise, you’ve violated the Textile Act.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Yes, we know about that bit, but can you please quote the part where "it is illegal to re-use an RN number". Just because it's legal to change to your own, doesn't mean it's _illegal_ not to.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

This is perfectly legal as long as the new label lists the name or RN of the person or company making the change.


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

I got a response straight from Rodney saying that it's OK to reuse the RN and CA numbers of the shirt maker when you relabel. Someone's not right here and I don't know who.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Who is Rodney?.....

The link to the FTC Relabeling Info is in the left column of this forum...Under resources....
Threading Your Way Through the Labeling Requirements Under the Textile and Wool Acts

*Replacing another company’s label with your own40* An importer, distributor, or retailer may want to replace the original label on a textile product with a label showing its company or RN. This is perfectly legal as long as the new label lists the name or RN of the person or company making the change.


So it says the new label must list the name or RN of the person or company making the change......So the way i read this, if you change the label, you have to put your own name and/or RN number on the new label....How can this allow you to re-use an RN?....I certainly do not see any way to do that.....


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## tuan (Nov 11, 2006)

royster13 said:


> Who is Rodney?.....


Sorry, Rodney runs this forum.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> An importer, distributor, or retailer may want to replace the original label on a textile product with a label showing its company or RN. This is perfectly legal as long as the new label lists the name or RN of the person or company making the change.
> 
> 
> So it says the new label must list the name or RN of the person or company making the change......So the way i read this, if you change the label, you have to put your own name and/or RN number on the new label....How can this allow you to re-use an RN?.


The way I read it is that if you are *changing* the RN to your own RN, then you would need to list your own company name or RN number.

If you are simply using the original manufacturing company's RN number, then the way it reads to me is that you don't have to also list your company.

So if you relabel a t-shirt and use the *original manufacturers RN* number and put your company logo/name in the label along with the proper country of origin/care instructions, it doesn't seem like there would be any issues at all.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I can not see anyway to read the way you are reading it......Are you putting a new label in the shirt?....If so, the RN of the company making the change must be on the label


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

royster13 said:


> I can not see anyway to read the way you are reading it......Are you putting a new label in the shirt?....If so, the RN of the company making the change must be on the label


I guess we just interpret the wording differently. People have been doing it the way I read it for years with zero problems whatsoever. It's the most common way relabeling is done in the industry.



> An importer, distributor, or retailer may want to replace the original label on a textile product with a label showing its company or RN


To break down the sentence, I read that "its company or RN" means that if an importer, distributor or retailer wants to use "its RN" (the RN number belonging to the retailers) then you would need to company name of the person making the change.

It certainly doesn't state anywhere that reusing an RN number is illegal like you mentioned in post #16 above.

Anyways, like I said, when people use the RN number for the original manufacturer, they are usually putting their own company name in the tag as well anyway...that's the whole purpose of relabeling, to put your own company name/brand in the tag. So the requirement of having the company name of the retailer doing the relabeling is usually met by the company who's trying to put their name in the neckline.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I just got off the phone with the FTC and I am pretty certain my interpretation is correct....I was also lead to believe that any additional work on the garment (including screen printing) required that the original RN be removed and be replaced with the RN of the company finishing the garment.....So that opens up a whole new "can of worms" in my mind...

Obviously with a set of rules that is very complex, it is really hard to figure what is right, until you are cited for doing something wrong.....


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

royster13 said:


> I just got off the phone with the FTC and I am pretty certain my interpretation is correct....I was also lead to believe that any additional work on the garment (including screen printing) required that the original RN be removed and be replaced with the RN of the company finishing the garment.....So that opens up a whole new "can of worms" in my mind...
> 
> Obviously with a set of rules that is very complex, it is really hard to figure what is right, until you are cited for doing something wrong.....


Well, if that's correct then everyone has been doing it wrong.

I have a feeling there's some miss-communication going on somewhere. I don't think anyone has been cited for doing it the way I describe. 

I'll leave it up to each person to read through the guidelines and make their own calls to get the information they need to move forward.


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