# Anyone cut screen stencil on vinyl cutter?



## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

I want to cut stencils with my vinyl cutter. It's just easier and less messy for me than emulsion method, since I'm not doing intricate designs.

I contacted Ulano and they suggested StaySharp for water-based inks. But I could also go plastisol with water-based stencil. I don't know if Ulano makes this stencil material also.

Anyone here cut stencils w/ the vinyl cutter? If so, does it work well (easy weed, no perforation on backing sheet, etc.)? Any other vendors out there in addition of Ulano you have tried? Thanks for any advice.


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## Titere (Sep 14, 2006)

Ive done it with the green film. It was ok to weed. Not as easy as decal vinyl, but it is not hard, believe me. It didnt cut trough the backing or anything. I didnt use it myself. I cut it for someone else who does old-fashioned screenprinting and it worked well for him. I have some remains at home and could send you a cut sample if you wish.
Joe


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

Joe,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the StaySharp is green. I remember it from the ol' days when I cut by hand. I haven't decided to go that route, or use the stencil material that's water soluble. Thanks for the offer.


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

I've used 3 year cheap vinyl and it works the same for me, a lot cheaper too.


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

Air,

Thanks. I thought about going that route, but wondered if the vinyl would degrade if you're doing a large run. And if the ink would get underneath the edges of the vinyl since it really isn't bonded to the screen like the Ulano material.


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## SAAM (Oct 12, 2007)

We have a vinyl cutter, does it work as well as you said? Will it get under the edges? If this works well, I may be in a whole new line of business. 

Thanks

Sarah


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

I've done it for a while; the trick is to put it on the ink side (non substrate) of the screen. the receptive (adhesive/"sticky") side of the vinyl will collect ink and eventually fall off, while the other side is made to withstand the elements and will repel the ink. not sure of other's experiences with this method, but it's worked great for me.


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## Titere (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Go10go4 and Samm check out this video. It is a tutorial of screenprinting with vinyl on the screen. 
Joe


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## SAAM (Oct 12, 2007)

Titere Wear said:


> Hey Go10go4 and Samm check out this video. It is a tutorial of screenprinting with vinyl on the screen.
> Joe



Thanks a bunch - answered all my questions in one video.

Thanks


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## Titere (Sep 14, 2006)

Yourwelcome! It is really helpful. Im playing alot with vinyl, one day Ill do screenprinting like that.


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

I had seen this video some time ago, and I have the same brand cutter. However, the video didn't address how the vinyl would fare after many repeated uses. And it didn't address the quality of the imprint (did the edges curl, did the ink get under the vinyl at all, etc.). But thanks for the heads-up. It's probably worth doing it this way just to see how well it does.


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## go10go4 (Oct 3, 2007)

If this does work I can see one great advantage over the Ulano. It doesn't require any special adhesion to the screen. With the Ulano you have to apply the stencil either with water or solvent. In either case, from what I've heard, it's not a simple thing like peeling vinyl and sticking it to the screen. Hope it works.


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## billm75 (Feb 15, 2007)

So....has anyone here tried this method? If so, what results did you get?


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

I do it all the time. It really depends on how complex the design is, though. Also remember that it takes time to weed vinyl, and if you mess up a little piece or tear it at all, it'll show very easily. If it's a simple logo with big lettering or design, vinyl works great and is much faster; if it's intricate or a list of names (like in a play), emulsion is the only serious option. For runs over 100, I'd still use emulsion; you could potentially re-make the screen when the vinyl starts to wear though.


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## billm75 (Feb 15, 2007)

It's definitely a simple design, large letters (at least 1 - 1 1/2" high). I can't forsee doing more than 75 or 100 pieces, but if it went to a larger run, I wouldn't mind making 4 screens and limiting use to 60 pieces each. 

I'm trying to do a few things to speed up production without breaking the bank at first. As money comes in, I plan to upgrade to better equipment and processes.


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah Bill, it should work out then. As long as you have a plotter and some cheap vinyl, you're good to go. I recommend putting it on the non-substrate (squeege) side of the screen. You'll be scared at first to wipe across, but it won't budge if you apply it correctly. Make sure it's down flat, I'd clean the screen off with some alcohol or water to make the adhesion nice and strong so no shifting occurs. Best of luck, Bill!


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

i've said it before...this forum is a treasure 

i am interested in doing that too.

so, if the ink is water based, the vinyl adhesive should be solvent based, right? so the water in the ink does't disolve the stencil's adhesive.. ?

airraidapparel, i have a few more questions, please: considering the design restrictions you already mentioned, is the print quality somehow lower (much lower) than that from the emulsion made screen? will it be ok for printing corporate t shirts, for example?

thank you!


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

cmyk-

as far as ink types vs vinyl types to be used, water generally does not affect vinyl adhesives enough to make it a problem. by the time the vinyl is applied to the screen, the adhesive will be pretty set in the mesh.

the print quality is not that much different than that of an emulsion coated screen. as far as artwork, though, it's almost a case by case basis. i've learned to size up things with a glance and determine if it's do-able right away or not. simple is better if you're printing with vinyl. my best suggestion is to make sure your cut file is nice and smooth. if you're auto tracing a bitmap/jpeg file, i'd go in really close and make sure you don't have any jagged lines or rough corners, those will show with printing MUCH more so than a traditional vinyl applied sign. take those precautions and i think you'll be just fine.

i know it can be scary trying something that's unconventional for the first time, but there's nothing to worry about.


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

thanks a lot!


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## billm75 (Feb 15, 2007)

I'll be ordering my screen material in then and giving it a shot. Thanks so much for the info. I'll post my results. (prolly about 2 -3 weeks though)


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## ddspecialties (Sep 9, 2007)

we have used that before in the past for short runs. no one here mentioned how much of a pain it is to get that vinyl off the screen after you have printed. That is what we ran into. We did this about 4 or 5 years ago, and trust me, make sure to have a good pressure washer handy, you will need it.


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

Hmm, I've never had a problem peeling it right off. Maybe we used different vinyl.


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## Ken Styles (Mar 16, 2006)

So I'm going to assume that this would never work for more than a 1 color design.

Also, getting the design striaght on the screen muse be a paint right?


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

the person who did the video said he did 200 t shirts that way! 
he did't mention if he ever changed the vinyl stencil...


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## colourmefunky (Dec 8, 2007)

*use vinyl cutter2make stencil add 2t-shirt then airbrush*

has anybody tried to use a vinyl cutter to cut out the design they want in to a stencil then applying it on the the t-shirt and then using a airbrush
instead of the screen print or heat transfer im thinking about doing some experiments has any body done this yet would it work ????


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## Pwear (Mar 7, 2008)

Ken Styles said:


> So I'm going to assume that this would never work for more than a 1 color design.
> 
> Also, getting the design striaght on the screen muse be a paint right?


I bet you could do multiple colors if you cut registration marks as well as the design - it's really no different than exposing the design onto the screen, except with a different medium. If you cut the design on a square piece of vinyl you can line it up the same way as a film positive printed on a square transparancy.


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

i just did my first 2  shirts last night using this method.
they were white on black, plastisol ink, and they came out pretty good.
no flash curing, just 2 firm prints.
maybe the results would have been better with print-flash-print.
i used a flash gun to pre/cure them, and them put them in the heat press at 330 degrees for 20 seconds, and then for 10 more second , as i remembered white takes more time to cure.

this is how i did it: i washed the screen with a cheap window cleaner, rinsed it with clear water, then cleaned it again with isopropilic alcohol, let it dry, then i applied the vinyl stencil on the print side.
let it bond for 10 minutes, then taped the screen and took it to my one color press.

one thing i believe is important: as i use plastisol inks, i decided to use a vinyl with water-basel adhesive, in my case Oracal 641 intermediate vinyl.
i have a 160 shirts order, small logo on the chest, and i wonder if i can do the job using this type of stencil....

oh - cleaning the ink form the screen is a pain.
i use laquer thinner in a well ventilated room.


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

i did 160 tees some days ago.
it was a small text on the chest, about 13 inches long and 4 inches wide.

about 60 of them were done using blue plastisol ink, and tre rest - white ink.

i needed to change the stencils 3 times, because after 40-45 tees, the insides of the letters a and e were slightly moving aside.

my conclusion is that it is perfectly ok for no more than 50 tees, and for longer runs i will have someone prepare some emulsion screens for me.

i almost forgot - first i tried to use ulanocut green film, but i supose i put too much water on it, because the result was a total mess.

it took me 2 days, as it was my firs job, and not a very small one.


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## colourmefunky (Dec 8, 2007)

hi every body i just finished 150 t-shirts by using (hot-mark) similar to plastisol and then cutting it out with a Roland cutter then applying it to the t-shirt then pressing it down using a heatpress and the finish is just awasome


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## bredanos (Jun 8, 2009)

hi all,

in the video one person asked a question about the screen.The post was a comment about not getting the vinyl to stick to a polyester screen, so if this is the case what screen material is the best?

Another question is that I use vinyl for my t-shirts which you cut on a plotter (mirrored), weed and then apply to the garment. However, correct me if im wrong, but isnt there two types of vinyl? The type I explained i use for garments and the other used for sign making etc - do you need to use the vinyl for signs etc? If im correct this type of vinyl requires you to apply the transparent sticky sheet on top of the vinyl, so that the vinyl is sandwiched between transparent sticky sheet and the backing, which once you've removed the backing you can apply to a hard surface like windows, smooth it out, then take off the transparent sticky sheet. So I assume you would use this type of vinyl and process to apply on the screen?


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

bredanos said:


> hi all,
> 
> in the video one person asked a question about the screen.The post was a comment about not getting the vinyl to stick to a polyester screen, so if this is the case what screen material is the best?


clean the screen using a degreaser - i use isoprophilic alcohol; i have never had a problem sticking the vinyl onto the screen




bredanos said:


> question is that I use vinyl for my t-shirts which you cut on a plotter (mirrored), weed and then apply to the garment.


correct



bredanos said:


> However, correct me if im wrong, but isnt there two types of vinyl? The type I explained i use for garments and the other used for sign making etc - do you need to use the vinyl for signs etc? If im correct this type of vinyl requires you to apply the transparent sticky sheet on top of the vinyl, so that the vinyl is sandwiched between transparent sticky sheet and the backing, which once you've removed the backing you can apply to a hard surface like windows, smooth it out, then take off the transparent sticky sheet. So I assume you would use this type of vinyl and process to apply on the screen?


yes, you use the sign vinyl and the process you described is correct; although, some prefer to apply the vinyl stencil on the squeege side - not me


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ken Styles said:


> So I'm going to assume that this would never work for more than a 1 color design.
> 
> Also, getting the design striaght on the screen muse be a paint right?


I just finished a 108 shirt job with 4 colors on the front....colors touched and it was a quick setup.


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## rocky89 (May 23, 2008)

go10go4 said:


> I want to cut stencils with my vinyl cutter. It's just easier and less messy for me than emulsion method, since I'm not doing intricate designs.
> 
> I contacted Ulano and they suggested StaySharp for water-based inks. But I could also go plastisol with water-based stencil. I don't know if Ulano makes this stencil material also.
> 
> Anyone here cut stencils w/ the vinyl cutter? If so, does it work well (easy weed, no perforation on backing sheet, etc.)? Any other vendors out there in addition of Ulano you have tried? Thanks for any advice.


We just tried using UlanoCut (Green) for the first time today in my classroom. We plotted on a Roland CAMM-1 Plotter. It's water based, so it gets applied to the screen using water. We printed using Plastisol ink and got good results.

My Impressions:


It's really easy to plot and weed.
It's awesome for reclaiming. Clean up your ink first. The stencil comes off easily with water
I have to get a little better at applying it to the screen. I read through Ulano's directions like five times, but I wish they would do a better job describing how much water is "excess water that should be blotted off". I'm sure that after a few more tries it won't be a problem.
We seem to be getting more predictable results than with our home made fluorescent light table and QTX. (there are less variable for the students to screw up)
And now a question of my own:
Any ulanocut (green) users have any tips for applying the stencil?


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## bulldog1 (Feb 18, 2008)

cmyk said:


> clean the screen using a degreaser - i use isoprophilic alcohol; i have never had a problem sticking the vinyl onto the screen


 
Hi CMYK - may I please ask for your direction on a topic that you have some knowledge. I just received 2 new screens from Ryonet - I cleaned the one I'm using thoroughly with alcohol and my vinyl still isn't sticking well at all. I'm usng Oracal 651 white and using transfer tape to peel the vinyl from the back and then when I get the vinyl into place and flatten it down WELL with my sqeezie, and then begin removing the transfer tape, the stuff begins to pull up. Any small pieces of vinyl such as the insides of "O's" come up too. What's your secret? In this YouTube video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXmmXkvh4pI[/media] the guys screen seems to be magical or something because there's no way my vinyl is sticking like this. I see in this vid the guy's using Oracal 651 only in blue versus my white but would color matter?

Thanks for any help you can provide.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

bulldog1 said:


> Hi CMYK - may I please ask for your direction on a topic that you have some knowledge. I just received 2 new screens from Ryonet - I cleaned the one I'm using thoroughly with alcohol and my vinyl still isn't sticking well at all. I'm usng Oracal 651 white and using transfer tape to peel the vinyl from the back and then when I get the vinyl into place and flatten it down WELL with my sqeezie, and then begin removing the transfer tape, the stuff begins to pull up. Any small pieces of vinyl such as the insides of "O's" come up too. What's your secret? In this YouTube video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXmmXkvh4pI[/media] the guys screen seems to be magical or something because there's no way my vinyl is sticking like this. I see in this vid the guy's using Oracal 651 only in blue versus my white but would color matter?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide.


Make sure you use a degreaser and rinse. Sometimes you will still have problems with small details, but just pull slow.


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## HHRSEGT (Nov 15, 2009)

thutch15 said:


> Make sure you use a degreaser and rinse. Sometimes you will still have problems with small details, but just pull slow.


we use the sprayway957 screen opener to help clean screens after using vinyl stencils. It dries quick and have been able to use the same screen almost immediately. You should start with a clean screen and keeping it clean will be easy.


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## Teamwear (Mar 12, 2007)

You hear the you should have a thick stencil (emulsion) for white inks, etc.

Is there an issue with this since the vinyl is on the ink side?

Can it work if you use the vinyl on the shirt side instead?

I would much rather weed vinyl than coat screens. First take is that it will cost less too.

Can you do a color change and the vinyl stand up to the ink remover, etc?


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## HHRSEGT (Nov 15, 2009)

We do whites with same type of vinyl with no problems or complaints. Don't use cleaners on the vinyl to change colors. The vinyl will "melt" from the chemicals and the adhesive will loosen. Make a new stencil for each color change its still cost effective.


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## gerry (Oct 4, 2006)

bulldog1 said:


> Hi CMYK - may I please ask for your direction on a topic that you have some knowledge. I just received 2 new screens from Ryonet - I cleaned the one I'm using thoroughly with alcohol and my vinyl still isn't sticking well at all. I'm usng Oracal 651 white and using transfer tape to peel the vinyl from the back and then when I get the vinyl into place and flatten it down WELL with my sqeezie, and then begin removing the transfer tape, the stuff begins to pull up. Any small pieces of vinyl such as the insides of "O's" come up too. What's your secret? In this YouTube video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXmmXkvh4pI[/media] the guys screen seems to be magical or something because there's no way my vinyl is sticking like this. I see in this vid the guy's using Oracal 651 only in blue versus my white but would color matter?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide.


If your using sign vinyl then apply it dry to your screen. The other method is with water applied emulsion that come in sheets and is cut by hand or on a plotter, but apply sign vinyl dry and all you have to worry about is putting it onto the screen straight.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

Teamwear said:


> You hear the you should have a thick stencil (emulsion) for white inks, etc.
> 
> Is there an issue with this since the vinyl is on the ink side?
> 
> ...


I always apply it to the shirt side.


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

gerry said:


> If your using sign vinyl then apply it dry to your screen. The other method is with water applied emulsion that come in sheets and is cut by hand or on a plotter, but apply sign vinyl dry and all you have to worry about is putting it onto the screen straight.


Agree 100%... use degreaser and let dry.


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

bulldog1 said:


> Hi CMYK - may I please ask for your direction on a topic that you have some knowledge. I just received 2 new screens from Ryonet - I cleaned the one I'm using thoroughly with alcohol and my vinyl still isn't sticking well at all. I'm usng Oracal 651 white and using transfer tape to peel the vinyl from the back and then when I get the vinyl into place and flatten it down WELL with my sqeezie, and then begin removing the transfer tape, the stuff begins to pull up. Any small pieces of vinyl such as the insides of "O's" come up too. What's your secret? In this YouTube video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXmmXkvh4pI[/media] the guys screen seems to be magical or something because there's no way my vinyl is sticking like this. I see in this vid the guy's using Oracal 651 only in blue versus my white but would color matter?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide.


hi, sorry for not responding sooner!

i don't know what's going wrong with your vinyl stencils...i clean the screens very well with alcohol, rinse with cold water, dry the screen with a domestic hair drier, and then there should be no problems...so, the screen should be *completely degreased and dry.*

good luck!


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## cmyk (Dec 3, 2007)

and i also use oracal 651...it seems like your screens are not degreased or are sihgtly wet, because i don't know any other factor than can determine that result with self-adhesive vinyl (but my experience is somehow limited, i only work with vinyl for 2 years)


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## craftysansan (Apr 3, 2011)

Do it all the time with matsui water base, even discharge. Look up Yudu on YouTube you will see me ;-).


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