# General Question about DTG vs DTF



## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

Hello,

we are in the DTG Business since 2007 (Blazer Express) and bought last year our 1st Storm 2.
At the moment we have GTX and Kornit Breeze / Storm 2 but since the first DTF Machines are looking stable
we are having a lot of troube to get enough jobs for our Kornits (we already printing DTF Transfers on the GTX).

So what do all DTG users think, will DTF be the Future for "on demand" and small runs?
I know there are still Designs and customers for DTG but we are able to switch around 70% to DTF because of the better
Quality / Washability on different textiles.

We are now on a point where i dont know what to do ....


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

schroble said:


> I know there are still Designs and customers for DTG but we are able to switch around 70% to DTF because of the better
> Quality / Washability on different textiles.


DTF is not a replacement but an addition.
You must be joking about the quality... DTF printed shirt look and feel cheap.
I think the best thing to do is to keep offering both options:
a) DTF for CAD-CUT style designs.
b) DTG for line-art, distressed, faded, or just softer hand-feel designs.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

do both depending on what your customer wants.


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## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

Small update, basicly we changed from 100% DTG to 90% DTF and 10% DTG.

DTF is so much better then DTG this is unbelivable, we got now view Photoshop Scripts which makes even A3 full Size perfect with DTF and yeah, the future is there belive it or not


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## Kwan (Jan 4, 2014)

schroble said:


> Small update, basicly we changed from 100% DTG to 90% DTF and 10% DTG.
> 
> DTF is so much better then DTG this is unbelivable, we got now view Photoshop Scripts which makes even A3 full Size perfect with DTF and yeah, the future is there belive it or not


NO way DTF is a future (it will always be an add-on) if your setup is right. I had a 7 DTG head and 1 PTM head mounted on my Auto silk screen printer for two years. and that's the future, my fellow.


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## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

Well screen printing & DTG in one machine ist kinda a) not new and b) if its so good why the most companys are not using it 

Anyway since we got the new sheets and powder + adjusted the printfiles we are near the feeling of DTG with 60° washability and same results on different garments (even Polyester btw)


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## Kwan (Jan 4, 2014)

My reply was to your comment "DTF and yeah, the future is there believe it or not"

M&R and other big companies do make DTG heads for their auto silk-screen printers. 
Sheet + powder add labor cost, We don't have this on Silkscreen + DTG head machines. 
Adjusted the print files? no problem. 
White ink? No issue. 
All garments? No problem when using a White plastisol base. 
No heat pressing, Just straight to the oven (lol).

Again, DFT is an add-on and it's great, however it can never be the future.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

schroble said:


> Well screen printing & DTG in one machine ist kinda a) not new and b) if its so good why the most companys are not using it


Hybrid (screen+DTG) used to be the future 10 years ago, but that future is now here and many companies use it.
It's just not something you'll see promoted online as it's not really something the average home-crafter would want to buy.
Traditional screen-printing is not dead either. It's still the cheapest and lowest maintenance printing method.



schroble said:


> Anyway since we got the new sheets and powder + adjusted the printfiles we are near the feeling of DTG with 60° washability and same results on different garments (even Polyester btw)


Just like solvent or latex printed vinyl then... .
DTF is obviously an alternative to printable vinyl... Not DTG.
There is no weeding, but there is manual powder and baking which is just as time consuming.
You can automate the the powder+baking part, just like you can automate the weeding (in most cases at least).

Lets try some comparisons for this example...









1. DTF or Printable vinyl?
For me it would feel and cost pretty much the same either way.

2. DTF or DTG?
I personally think DTG would be much better, especially if a softer vintage look is desirable.

3. DTG or or Hybrid?
For me hybrid (discharge or waterbased white + CMYK DTG) would preferable, BUT it's not viable for a single shirt.
For 10 shirts however... Super soft discharge base is the way.

Also, if I had to print 100 or more shirts, I'd simply use screens.
It's only 4 colors, so around 30 minutes setup and around 30-40 minutes printing.
Cheaper, faster, softer.


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## TeedUp (Apr 22, 2020)

TABOB said:


> 1. DTF or Printable vinyl?
> For me it would feel and cost pretty much the same either way.


Professor Tabob is very smart and informative, as usual, I just take issue with this one point. The hand on the DTF will be slightly better than the printable vinyl Subliflex and close to the EasySubli (the ones I use and familar with), but not having to cut and weed would make DTF my clear choice between these two.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

TeedUp said:


> The hand on the DTF will be slightly better than the printable vinyl Subliflex and close to the EasySubli (the ones I use and familar with)


DTF is much better than Subliflex, but I was talking about the much softer solvent/latex printed vinyls.
As for the weeding, some designs can be weeded in seconds, and there are low cost and even DIY tools to speed up the process for large orders.





*Anyway... This is actually the point I'm making. DTF is very similar to printable vinyl transfers.*
Some POD do use it, along with sublimation, and even laser toner transfers but *for some products* only (Spreadshirt example bellow).


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## TeedUp (Apr 22, 2020)

@TABOB I figured you weren't talking about all printed vinyls, I was just commenting on the ones I do have experience with. 

Also, I'm not familiar with the weeding machine, but I'd like to see it go to work on something like ALL the black in the "train hard" skull you posted above. I suspect it doesn't handle everything as easily as those simple rows of basic shapes.

I do always enjoy your posts.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

TeedUp said:


> Also, I'm not familiar with the weeding machine, but I'd like to see it go to work on something like ALL the black in the "train hard" skull you posted above. I suspect it doesn't handle everything as easily as those simple rows of basic shapes.


Actually I picked this design on purpose, because it cannot be used as it is.
It has to be altered in the same way for both methods (DTF and printable vinyl) before printing .
The black parts within the design will have to be printed, and a black outline around the design has to be applied as well.
This way the design will feel much smoother and look good on any color shirt.































You could do it without the outline but I personally prefer the design with it.
































Vinyl printing will be faster than DTF as there is no white ink layer.
This design can be weeded in 10 seconds, and it can be done with those weeding machines as well.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

very interesting input

for every curve-ball there is a hitter


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## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

But printable Flex ( Vynil) has a lower washability then DTF this is why DTF > printable Vynil also.

I know a lot of ppl talking blabla transfer blabla transferfeeling blablablablablabla the customer will be the one who will decide and we print often like 2 shirts 2 polos 2 hoodies, DTG every textille will be a different resullt with DTF all get the same result.
As soon the DTF roll to roll printer getting faster DTG will loose asap a lot of the print they doing for now


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

schroble said:


> But printable Flex ( Vynil) has a lower washability then DTF this is why DTF > printable Vynil also.


Not true...
Printable vinyl it be can be washed at 60°C .
DTF is basically vinyl too... (CMYK print + white layer + glue).



schroble said:


> I know a lot of ppl talking blabla transfer blabla transferfeeling blablablablablabla the customer will be the one who will decide


Because it is, and customers are not stupid.
Here is a popular type of print many people want, and you cannot do it with DTF.







If what you want to do is sell birthday shirts on eBay or Etsy, then DTF is great.
I prefer selling 300+ shirts per shipment, so I have to keep the quality level high.



schroble said:


> we print often like 2 shirts 2 polos 2 hoodies, DTG every textille will be a different resullt with DTF all get the same result.


As I said... DTF is a vinyl alternative, and vinyl will look the same on every garment too.
I'm not a big fan of DTG by the way, but it can do things DTF cannot do.


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## jwaldmann (Aug 12, 2012)

TABOB said:


> Not true...
> Printable vinyl it be can be washed at 60°C .
> DTF is basically vinyl too... (CMYK print + white layer + glue).
> 
> ...


What about that design can't be done on DTF?


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

jwaldmann said:


> What about that design can't be done on DTF?


Everything. 
Feel free to try and let us see the result.


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## jwaldmann (Aug 12, 2012)

can you upload the file so I can test it?


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