# Cell phone cases not Sublimating anymore!



## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

ok I posted yesterday trying to figure out why my colors weren't great and transfers weren't really that great. After some tinkering and trying things out I got 2 cases to come out PERFECTLY. I started to try and fill more orders today and this is the results. Below are the good and the bad versions. Good are from yesterday and the bad from today. I changed nothing. Temp and time stayed the same. of course same ink and paper. Nothing changed except days.

Good:









Bad:









Does anyone know why this is happening. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am new to this sublimation business and would like to be able to produce product as fast as people are ordering it. Please let me know.


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## 2dolla2holla (Sep 8, 2011)

it could be a few things

You are either printing on the wrong side of the paper or a pressure issue

Also you "good" copies are seriously off on the colors. Unless the colors of the faces are suppose to look like that. You might want to check your icc profile.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't think your 'good' case is very good...what ink are you using...it could be that your ICC profile is not correct for the ink/printer


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

I've looked all over for "ICC" profiles. I guess I am just not into this business far enough yet. I ordered 50 cases for the "learning curve" I knew there would be.

Can someone direct me to a link or maybe expressly tell me how I set up an ICC profile? 

I am using:

A 3D Sublimation Heat press

Epson WF-2540 Printer

Both are brand new.

HELP! after 20 cases I am starting to feel defeated :/


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## seemsfamiliar (Mar 7, 2013)

The case on the right that I think says Feel the Love? One of them is reversed and the other isn't. So you changed something. Are you printing on the correct side of your paper?


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## uglovdkg (Jan 3, 2012)

Are you removing the plastic film


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 13, 2013)

ICC profile you get from your ink vendor who ever that my be, if you purchased no-name ink good luck in finding one.

i have never used a 3D sublimation machine so i cant give any pointers on it ( but check temps )

One more thing any image you are going to imprint needs to be 300 dpi ( or close to it ) at whatever size your printing it at....trash in = trash out


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## 2dolla2holla (Sep 8, 2011)

which ink do you have?


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

I bought my ink, sublimation machine, paper, thermal tape, everything from:

Best Sublimation Expert from China - Sublimation Blanks,Sublimation Mugs,Heat Press Machines,Photo Crystal

Ink looks like:


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## 2dolla2holla (Sep 8, 2011)

you only have three options to get your color right.

1. contact your ink vender (the one you posted above) and see if they have an ICC for that ink
2. Have someone make a custom ICC profile for you
3. Do it yourself (probably not an option)


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

Throw that chinese crap away and go with Sawgrass. That's half the problem right there.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

2dolla2holla said:


> you only have three options to get your color right.
> 
> 1. contact your ink vender (the one you posted above) and see if they have an ICC for that ink
> 2. Have someone make a custom ICC profile for you
> 3. Do it yourself (probably not an option)


What does having someone make me a profile intel? Can it be done over the internet or is it something I would need like an ink specialist to make a house call for?

I will contact the vendor tonight. In fact I already sent them a message, but since they are in china they aren't getting to work till about 9-10pm my time. But as for having someone create me one. Is that a fairly painless task?


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

ZO6 KLR said:


> Throw that chinese crap away and go with Sawgrass. That's half the problem right there.


So the ink is for sure crap? I mean I don't want to just toss and order more if it IS usable with the right ICC profile. As it all costs money and etc...


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

Watch the video on conde.com. We do all cases face down with very light pressure. Image printed on whitest side of paper. change the quality of your print to photo glossy hi resolution.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

jfisk3475 said:


> Watch the video on conde.com. We do all cases face down with very light pressure. Image printed on whitest side of paper. change the quality of your print to photo glossy hi resolution.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


I don't have a heat press. I have a 3D sublimation vacuum Heat press. But if you have a link to what you are talking about I will surely check it out.


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

Most of the time is generally inconsistency issues from batch to batch with bad to no customer service along with lack of profiles.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

ZO6 KLR said:


> Most of the time is generally inconsistency issues from batch to batch with bad to no customer service along with lack of profiles.


With the company I bought from or in general for all companies? I feel the issue is I will have to overnight order some ink. Costly but unless someone can make me a profile for this ink or their customer service rep(s) can help me. I am screwed


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

I can't speak for ALL Chinese companies but it doesn't matter if their ink is 10x better and 20x cheaper, if there is no support or profile for the inks, how does that benefit you? I have no idea if your inks are bad or not. I'm just saying if their was support for the ink it would help you tremendously.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

ZO6 KLR said:


> I can't speak for ALL Chinese companies but it doesn't matter if their ink is 10x better and 20x cheaper, if there is no support or profile for the inks, how does that benefit you? I have no idea if your inks are bad or not. I'm just saying if their was support for the ink it would help you tremendously.


Yeah I am hoping to hear back from the sales associate that I spoke with for 3 weeks prior to buying the machine and ink from. He seemed genuinely helpful and is on skype most every night. Crossing my fingers.


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## DaisyK (Aug 29, 2008)

There are several vendors offering ICC profile for a fee of $40-50. You just need to send them the targets. I did mine at inkjetfly for my 1430 printer. The prints turn out perfectly after the profile. It may also depends on the ink. Check with them they may only do it for their customers. Or just google ICC profile.


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## aperollmay (Mar 20, 2010)

uDesign525 said:


> I've looked all over for "ICC" profiles. I guess I am just not into this business far enough yet. I ordered 50 cases for the "learning curve" I knew there would be.
> 
> Can someone direct me to a link or maybe expressly tell me how I set up an ICC profile?
> 
> ...


Why did you go the 3d route? You could press those with a reg. heat press.


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## dewny (Nov 13, 2010)

You'd probably need a 3D vacuum press or whatever you're using if you were doing a case that had the image wrap around the sides, but the image you posted looks just like a standard metal plate you could use a regular heat press and stick the plate on the case.

I agree you that although you might think you're saving money buying direct from china in the long run, it may be more aggrevation than it's worth. I don't think buying from china should be where you do your initial purchasing if you don't know their track record for quality & support.

I've had a Ricoh for about 3 years & *knock on wood* saw grass ink, ICC profile from Conde, minimal learning curve. No way I've wasted 20-50 plates "learning" to sublimate. Doesn't matter how cheap it is...that's $$. Do you have a heat press or have access to one?

Could be ink quality, paper quality, maybe the a problem with the plates or coating??, your vacuum pressure??, ICC, did you take the plastic film off the plate? printing on the wrong side of the paper?? Are you using sublimation paper?


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

Using a 3d heat press cause we are going to do plates, crystals, mugs, and everything in between once we figure out this whole mess.

I ordered from china and it seems it was a mistake and I know that now. But now I have to make the best of a bad situation. Yes I am taking the film off the plates. I may just order some ink from conde today cause this is just nerve wrecking.

Does conde do overnight?


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

Yes they overnight

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## seemsfamiliar (Mar 7, 2013)

dewny said:


> I've had a Ricoh for about 3 years & *knock on wood* saw grass ink, ICC profile from Conde, minimal learning curve. No way I've wasted 20-50 plates "learning" to sublimate. Doesn't matter how cheap it is...that's $$. Do you have a heat press or have access to one?
> ... printing on the wrong side of the paper?? Are you using sublimation paper?


My company has had a Ricoh printer for less than a week, and my first two sublimations looked worlds better than yours, and one of them was faded on the side because I forgot to lower the heat press to the thinner tile. Not trying to be mean but I think you have a problem. We bought our entire set up from Conde except the platen heat press which we already had.

Also, my hubby was begging to get a sublimation system at home because he thought it would be tons of fun. However reading amazon reviews, sublimation paper coming from China often wasn't REALLY sublimation paper. I told him that I wasn't going to order any of it even if it was a few hundred bucks for the setup if it was going to be a waste of money like that. Not having ever done sublimation before, I didn't know the difference between sublimation paper or not so how would I know if they sent the wrong stuff? I'd been through that with vacuum bags too; one order they'd be real deal and the next order they were knock offs.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

Just got this response from the vendor:

"Hi, do not need ICC profile for the inks. our ink is import from Korea, sorry that I can't tell you the brand."

Is this a load of crap? I was under the impression that ALL inks needed this in order for the printer to correctly print the images.

I don't think my having a 3D machine instead of a flat press makes any difference. Is this the case?


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Uncle Remus said:


> i have never used a 3D sublimation machine so i cant give any pointers on it ( but check temps )



That wasn't done on a 3D machine.


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## bratdawg (Jul 17, 2012)

They're right...you don't need the ICC profiles...unless you would like your colors to be correct! 

That being said, I do know some folks (mostly on Macs) that do not use the ICC profiles, but they do color correction prior to printing. However, unless you're adept at doing that type of correction, you better stick with a profile.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Rather than twisting around with where the inks came from, approach this systematically. The lower pictures show there are no blacks in the image. So do a nozzle check to be sure all the jets are firing. Your cartridges or CISS may have become unprimed.

Get some good quality 100% polyester fabric form the yardage store. Do a test pressing on it -- 400 degrees for about 45 seconds, medium light pressure. Get the phone case inserts out of the equation. Images on the fabric should be bold and clear. If they are, but your phone cases turn out poorly, there's something wrong with your cases.

Test the temperature of your heat press with some temperature strips. You can buy them online from people who sell presses.

Verify you're printing on the correct side of the paper. It's the stickier side if you do the wet finger test.

I assume your ink is not old, as you just got the system. But was any of it recently subjected to high heat, like a heater too close to your printer? Heat will activate dye sub inks. Keep it away from heat until you're pressing the item on your heat press.

I'll agree with the others you should have a color profile, but your images are so far out of whack that's not your problem at the moment.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

headfirst said:


> That wasn't done on a 3D machine.


Actually it was. It's a flat press plate but done in a 3D machine. Which still works... kind of, minus my ink issue.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

GordonM said:


> Rather than twisting around with where the inks came from, approach this systematically. The lower pictures show there are no blacks in the image. So do a nozzle check to be sure all the jets are firing. Your cartridges or CISS may have become unprimed.
> 
> Get some good quality 100% polyester fabric form the yardage store. Do a test pressing on it -- 400 degrees for about 45 seconds, medium light pressure. Get the phone case inserts out of the equation. Images on the fabric should be bold and clear. If they are, but your phone cases turn out poorly, there's something wrong with your cases.
> 
> ...


I hear what you all are saying. But on the paper all the colors are there. could this still be an unprimed/dirty heads problem? The printed pictures look rather perfect. Just don't come out right after sublimation.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

uDesign525 said:


> The printed pictures look rather perfect. Just don't come out right after sublimation.


Usually it's the reverse -- the colors look wrong when printed, but come out right after being transferred under the heat press.

So it could be a temperature or blanks issue. Bad blanks? Too hot or too cold temperature? Too much or too little time? You can still determine some of this printing on test fabric, instead of ruining more phone blanks.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

GordonM said:


> Usually it's the reverse -- the colors look wrong when printed, but come out right after being transferred under the heat press.
> 
> So it could be a temperature or blanks issue. Bad blanks? Too hot or too cold temperature? Too much or too little time? You can still determine some of this printing on test fabric, instead of ruining more phone blanks.


ok, so fabric. that's a good idea at least to test for heat and tempature. The book I got said 195c for 9min for my machine. But that seemed to be to hot. Plus if I set the teampture to 195c it seems to go up to 205c before it stops climbing.

maybe set it at 185c?


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## Hunkydorymofo (Jun 19, 2012)

Here's my 2 cents , but have you tried to press your inserts on a regular heat press i @385 degrees instead of a 3d heat press? It might not be inks or a Icc profile, it might just be you are doing the process wrong. I don't think inserts are meant for 3d heat presses.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

uDesign525 said:


> The book I got said 195c for 9min for my machine.


I don't know the machine you're using, but for a regular pressure platen heat press, the time is more like 90 seconds, or even less. You mention you have a "3D" press, but without more detail it's hard to know. With excessively long heating times the dye will literally deplete out, and you'll get very poor results.

The temperature of 195c to 205c is within the ballpark.


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## dewny (Nov 13, 2010)

uDesign525 said:


> ok, so fabric. that's a good idea at least to test for heat and tempature. The book I got said 195c for 9min for my machine. But that seemed to be to hot. Plus if I set the teampture to 195c it seems to go up to 205c before it stops climbing.
> 
> maybe set it at 185c?


9 minutes seems excessive. All the inks are probably gassing out. Not even my mug press takes that long including the temperature drop when the mugs are inserted.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

I sent you a PM earlier. Follow the link in my sig to get the phone number and call me. We've been doing 3D or vacuum sublimation longer than anyone else here. I can either run these out for you today and ship them direct so you have some breathing room to troubleshoot this or I might be able to walk you through fixing your process on the phone.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

dewny said:


> 9 minutes seems excessive. All the inks are probably gassing out. Not even my mug press takes that long including the temperature drop when the mugs are inserted.



If he's really using a vacuum sublimator it won't sublimate on to fabric. It's going to exhaust all the dye out the top of the machine.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

ok grabbed some polyester. to try it out on. Though I think polyester might not work exactly the same. But I lowered the time to 2min. Waiting for the machine to heat up then I will be testing it all out. Wish me luck


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

ooook cloth not an option, just read the post about it exhausting the ink out... sigh


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

uDesign525 said:


> ooook cloth not an option, just read the post about it exhausting the ink out... sigh


Which BestSub machine do you have? Is it red or black? Is there a drawer that slides out of the side?


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

uDesign525 said:


> Actually it was. It's a flat press plate but done in a 3D machine. Which still works... kind of, minus my ink issue.


I've never seen a flat press plate inside of the vacuum sublimator. Can you post a picture? I'm curious now. 

Why would you use such a thing? Is this that combo all-in-one flat press, mug oven, vacuum press they were trying to sell? I thought they discontinued those. I could be wrong about that but I don't know anyone that is actually running one of those.


post pictures!


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

headfirst said:


> Which BestSub machine do you have? Is it red or black? Is there a drawer that slides out of the side?


Black no drawer. The pics at the start of the thread were metal inserts done in the vaccum. I guess I could set it up and show you how I do it. the ink issues, or temp issues, or whatever issues I am having aside. It works fairly well-ish.

But yeah it's a black "desktop" looking machine. Open lid. raise up the inner lid that is covered with what looks like silicone but I know it's not. That's for sublimating small things. Lift that up to reveal a compartment for mugs, and larger things.

That answer your questions?


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

uDesign525 said:


> Black no drawer. The pics at the start of the thread were metal inserts done in the vaccum. I guess I could set it up and show you how I do it. the ink issues, or temp issues, or whatever issues I am having aside. It works fairly well-ish.
> 
> But yeah it's a black "desktop" looking machine. Open lid. raise up the inner lid that is covered with what looks like silicone but I know it's not. That's for sublimating small things. Lift that up to reveal a compartment for mugs, and larger things.
> 
> That answer your questions?


Not really. Send pics 


One of ours is in the pic below. The stuff you dont think is silicone should be silicone. Get extra of it. We replace it about every 500-700 phones.


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

Here are the pics of mine:










And










On the open pick that bottom part lifts up AGAIN to reveal a cavity big enough to hold 12, 11oz coffee mugs at a time. Maybe it's 10. Point is it's made for mugs and bigger sublimation projects.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

I only see one gas ring on the blanket. How many phone cases can you do at a time?


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## uDesign525 (Apr 23, 2013)

headfirst said:


> I only see one gas ring on the blanket. How many phone cases can you do at a time?


only doing 1 at a time while I work out all the kinks... It gets a tight vacuum seal though.


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