# Print settings for best DTG results



## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

I am attaching some images of a job that I am trying to print. It is indicative of issues I have with the quality of my output. I use a Kiosk II with Equipment Zone inks. I use DTG Rip Pro V.03.743.

I am loosing detail to the extent that I feel maybe I don't have everything set correctily. I realize I am printing on fabric (cotton) and should not expect the same results as on paper, but it seems that the loss of detail is excessive, especially compared to what I see from others posted on these forums.

If you experts out there could let me know your thoughts or ask me questions about my settings, I think either I can dial this thing in or else learn to be satisfied with what I am getting (less). 

My problems are surrounding components that I am importing in from bitmaps. Sometimes I convert them to vectors beforehand, other times I leave them as rasters. I use mostly Corel Draw, but also Photoshop. Regardless, I am not getting what I feel others get. 

I have included a sreenshot of the corel file I am trying to print, a printout on paper and the same image printed on a shirt (100% cotton).

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Looks like you lost all your midtones. A double pass at a lower resolution would help this, but a light garment pretreatment would help as well. I don't believe it's in the RIP, my guess is the inks are laying down too heavy and just blending into each other.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks Jerid - 

The shirt color is dark khaki so I pretreated with dark pretreat - then 10 seconds with untreated paper, medium pressure; 10 seconds hover - no paper; all at 330 degrees.

I printed white underbase one pass; color pass twice. That makes the red saturate, as well as the rest of the colors. There isn't any more detail before the second color pass. 

Curing is done at 330 degress, light to medium pressure. To prevent scorching I press once for 1.5 minutes, open press for 5 seconds, then another 1.5 minutes.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

fleet said:


> Thanks Jerid -
> 
> The shirt color is dark khaki so I pretreated with dark pretreat - then 10 seconds with untreated paper, medium pressure; 10 seconds hover - no paper; all at 330 degrees.
> 
> ...


lets try this before missing with your rip settings.. if this works we know what the problem is

all @ 350F

Prepress your shirt 10 seconds- w/ teflon sheet full pressure

Pretreat your shirt 

Press w/teflon full pressure for 45-60 seconds (watch for steam) we do it for a minute to make sure the shirt is dry

Print like normal

Hover 30 seconds (no paper/no sheet) 

Full Pressure press w/ parchment paper for 60 seconds per layer of ink

1 white 1 color > 60 second intervals > remove paper let steam out > press again

try this.. see what happens

1440 layer of white and one pass of color at 720 should be suffice


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Sorry, didn't catch the white ink part. What does it look like before you heat press it? If it looks good, then you are flattening your colors. Try hovering (as mentioned by FatKat) for 20 to 30 seconds then press. This will keep you colors more vibrant and defined. If it looks this way before pressing, then I would think the profiles would need to be changed to reflect the a more accurate print.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

It looks pretty much like this on the printer, before the heat press. I will follow FatKat's formula tonight so we can eliminate the whole pretreat, curing part of things. I don't feel that is it, but will certainly conduct an experiment to provide a process of elimination.

I appreciate you folks (Jerid & FatKat) taking the time to help.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

If you have a good lay down of ink, it shouldn't be an issue since your print has a good base to work with.

Is your white layer gradated or is it 100% white ink laydown? If it's gradated, try using 100% white under any color pixel and see if it makes a difference.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

I just think 20 seconds (Press) after pretreat isn't enough time to cure the pretreat.. if that's how I read it

too much pretreat /wet shirt- will cause inks to run

not enough pretreat/-white layer will sink in and not be bright


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay, I followed all the pre-heat, pre-treat and curing instructions to a "t" (pun?) that FatKat suggested and have attached images. There is a little glare that makes it look like there is some uneveness in the printing, but there is not. 

Also, the final image - aftercure.jpg - is in different light than the previous images causing it to look a little different, but it's not.

There might be a slight difference in the level of detail between my original print and now, but not significant.

What else could it be? Anymore ideas? 

Sure appreciate your help!


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

If you want to send me an email with the file, I'll take a look at it.

jerid @ screenerschoice.com


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

On a side note, Corel files aren't always the best. Before you send the file, open it in corel, copy and then create a new file in photoshop and paste. Save the file out of photoshop and use that image. I can almost guarantee (almost) the print will be better.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

Just a thought what resolution is your artwork (finished print ready)...? also you stated above that your using a mix of raster and vectors brought together in Corel so your final output is a vector image, so then I'm assuming that the picture of the dog is the raster image at what dpi is it before your importing it into corel?

Hope this helps.


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## scg (Aug 11, 2009)

Are you obtaining the dog from a photo image?
If so I would add sketch effects to the dog through photoshop as opposed to tracing it in corel.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

I use several programs to put together my final images. Sometimes I work solely in Photoshop, other times in Corel Draw. I work on the components in Illustrator, Corel Photo-Paint, IntoCartoon, Paint It!, Corel Painter, etc., etc. I'm sure that the rest of you do the same thing. I use what I need to use to get the job done.

With that being said, I prefer to print out of Corel Draw as I use templates that I have set up in Smart Designer. My clients provide me with images of their dog, I "cut it out" and place it in my template with their kennel name, etc. 

In the example I have provided, the dog head was a jpg that I "extracted" in photoshop then traced it in Corel Draw. Original resolution was 300 dpi. By the way, the dog is my dog (I took the original photo) and the kennel information is mine. 

I am concerned with the detail loss when I print at the Kiosk. I understand that fabric is not going to give me the same result as paper, but when I see what other people are getting I think I am losing it somewhere.

Hope this helps.

Barrie


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

fleet said:


> There is a little glare that makes it look like there is some uneveness in the printing, but there is not.
> /quote]
> 
> Question??
> ...


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

If your files are not profiled correctly in Corel, I've seen this kind of thing happen. If someone knows how to operate color profiling in Corel, then it's not a problem.

Besides all of that, I believe I know what the problem is. I opened the original file and even though the colors in the neck are different, they have the same tonal value. So if you blur your eyes when looking at the original file, it will blend together, just like the final printed t. You are emulating colors with a 4 color system and the tonal values are too similar to actually warrant a difference in the the grayish tones.

I sent you the file again, but I did it in Photoshop, since I don't know Corel as well. I altered the values slightly to reflect more of a contrast between the colors. You will still get the same overall look you were after, but a better with better contrast. Give it a shot and let us know how it works for you.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

I will try your files tonight, Jerid. Thanks for your help.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

Barrie- can you email me your file? fatkatprintz[USER=36795]@gm[/USER]ail.com..


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

Will do, but can't until this evening. Corel Draw x4 okay? Or do you need it in a different version or format?


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

Corel x4 is fine..I will do a print from Corel so you can see the difference from PS (Jerid) and Corel (me)


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay so I printed the file that Jerid provided me. It was a Photoshop file of my design that he worked with. While he will have to tell us exactly what he did, it looks like to me that he increased the contrast in the dog's head significantly. I have attached a jpg of it labeled Jeridfile.jpg.

While the print is better - there is more detail than yesterday - the print still doesn't come close to detail visible in the file on the monitor. I have included a jpg of the shirt, called shirtprint.jpg. Lastly I included an image of the white underbase too. To me the white looks sufficient, but it may not be as saturted as FatKat's white layer.

Jerid, if you could let us know what manipulations you made to the file in Photoshop, it would be appreciated.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

My guess is you have a major profiling issue in the RIP. The intensity of color is definitely not there. What kind of profiles are you using via the RIP?

As for what I did to the file, I selected the tones that were close enough to each other and adjusted the value to reflect more of a contrast. So for example, I took the lighter shade and made it slightly lighter. I took the darker shade and made it slightly darker. Between the two, it didn't change the overall look you were going for, but it enhanced it. You had two shades of grays, one was warmer than the other, but the overall tonal value was almost the same. Because the profiling is off in the RIP (my guess), the CMYK couldn't reflect that. But it definitely looks washed up.

If you would want me to, send me an email or PM and I will connect to your computer and look at your RIP to determine the best settings to print from.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

fleet said:


> To me the white looks sufficient, but it may not be as saturted as FatKat's white layer.


I never print at a heavy saturation of white underbase. It's overkill and the pricing reflects that. A nice gradation in the white base is good for price reduction and the overall look of the garment. Where the white is exposed or solid colors, it will have good white coverage. Where there are midtones, etc., the gradation will show. I look at that as a benefit not an issue. It simply looks like the RIP isn't profiling the job correctly.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

You guys are starting to peek my interest now...LOL!

Barrie if you want to send us the file I'd like to see the original you sent Jerid and Pat/Carla..... iyfgraphics at gmail.com


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

IYFGraphics said:


> You guys are starting to peek my interest now...


copy cat 

as far as our saturation on our design.. we had to do that because how much white was in the image. We tried printing at our normal white levels and the shirt popped through on the checker flag.. we normally do not use these white levels.. just this particular image but I wanted show how white underbase should look..


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

If a profile is missing, it will show up in the Status Message tab (first of four tabs in the RIP interface). Clear everything out of the RIP - including the previous info under the Status Message tab. Then go throuhg the print process sending the file to the printer via the RIP. Once it is finished, copy all the text from the Status Message tab and post it here. I will let you know if there is a problem.

Mark


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

I just emailed it to you. Thanks for taking a look at it.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

DAGuide said:


> If a profile is missing, it will show up in the Status Message tab (first of four tabs in the RIP interface). Clear everything out of the RIP - including the previous info under the Status Message tab. Then go throuhg the print process sending the file to the printer via the RIP. Once it is finished, copy all the text from the Status Message tab and post it here. I will let you know if there is a problem.
> 
> Mark


 
I will do this and post tonight. Thanks.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

Here is our proof.. 

We just converted Pantone colors to CMYK
that was really the only thing we saw that could
have contributed problems. 

We see this alot with Digital Art Solutions artwork.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

After that print, I can't imagine it being anything other than a profile issue. My file was RGB out of Photoshop, so it's not a Pantone issue.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

We don't have problems with Pantone but the DAS artwork for some reason we also get crappy prints so we always convert but maybe its us?? 

But I have yet to get confirmation that this is DAS art


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

FatKat Printz said:


> We don't have problems with Pantone but the DAS artwork for some reason we also get crappy prints so we always convert but maybe its us??
> 
> But I have yet to get confirmation that this is DAS art


Yes, part of the file is DAS artwork. It has been modified for my application and of course the dog head added.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

DAGuide said:


> If a profile is missing, it will show up in the Status Message tab (first of four tabs in the RIP interface). Clear everything out of the RIP - including the previous info under the Status Message tab. Then go throuhg the print process sending the file to the printer via the RIP. Once it is finished, copy all the text from the Status Message tab and post it here. I will let you know if there is a problem.
> 
> Mark


Mark:

Here is the info copied from the Status Messages of the RIP. Hope you can help.

||||||||| Job Start ||||||||
Ink Density: C: 75M: 95Y: 100K: 100W: 100
DTGDRV PrePrep 
DTGDRV PrePrep 
Starting job: sign5_GAB.cdr
DTGDRV PostPrep
Requested Res: 720 x 720
Page Size: 936 x 1584
CAPP: 0 
BGRP: 720x720
(DTG_KIOSK/mdftail.ps)
Curve: (KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST.DAT)
%[Curve File loaded]%
%TryingICC Profile: KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST]%
%%[Using Proofer Profile: KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST]%%
%%%%[ *** Restarting Interpreter *** ]%%%%
%%%%[ ******** ]%%%%
Page Size: 612 x 792

||||||||| Job Start ||||||||
Initializing PostScript Interpreter
BitsPerPixel: 8
Requested Res: 360 x 360
Page Size: 612 x 792
Ink Density: C: 75M: 95Y: 100K: 100W: 100
BitsPerPixel: 8
Page Size: 3168 x 10368
Page Size: 612 x 792
DTGDRV PrePrep 
CAPP: 0 
BGRP: 720x720
(DTG_KIOSK/mdftail.ps)
Curve: (KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST.DAT)
%[Curve File loaded]%
%TryingICC Profile: KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST]%
%%[Using Proofer Profile: KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST]%%
contone.ps 3_30_03
DigItDEFGFile: Defg_SWOP_TR001
%[DEFG Resource Found]%
DigItDEFFile Def_NTSC1953
%[DEF Resource Found]%
(END EPCONTONE.ENC)
Starting job: sign5_GAB.cdr
DTGDRV PostPrep
Page Size: 936 x 1584
Rendering... Band height: 512
Ink Density: C: 75M: 95Y: 100K: 100W: 100
ypss: 1
WC: b: 5
Preview Rasters: 15840
|/|/|/| Ink Usage: /|/|/|/|
***** Cyan: $0.0000
***** Magenta: $0.0000
***** Yellow: $0.0000
***** Black: $0.0000
***** White: $0.0000
+*+*+* Layer Total: $0.0000
Ink Density: C: 75M: 95Y: 100K: 100W: 100
ypss: 1
Preview Rasters: 15840
|/|/|/| Ink Usage: /|/|/|/|
***** Cyan: $0.0075
***** Magenta: $0.0723
***** Yellow: $0.0000
***** Black: $0.0143
***** White: $0.2857
**+*+* Layer Total: $0.3798
Rendered 31 bands
Page Size: 612 x 792


Thanks.

Barrie


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

what are your color levels in RIP ? it looks like your C and M are pulled down..


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

FatKat Printz said:


> We don't have problems with Pantone but the DAS artwork for some reason we also get crappy prints so we always convert but maybe its us??
> 
> But I have yet to get confirmation that this is DAS art


 
I converted all colors to CMYK. Printed again. No improvement.

Your print was the best. I would be happy if I could emulate it. 

Hope someone has some more ideas - maybe the Profile stuff? I don't really know where to start with that.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Yeah, you definitely need to even out your ink levels. You can see the C&M are lower than the others, which are at 100%.

You need to go into your ink configuration in the RIP and change your ink levels to match each other, (at least the CMYK). Start at 100% and if you need to go down because of oversaturation just be sure to match all the colors in percentages.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

JeridHill said:


> Yeah, you definitely need to even out your ink levels. You can see the C&M are lower than the others, which are at 100%.
> 
> You need to go into your ink configuration in the RIP and change your ink levels to match each other, (at least the CMYK). Start at 100% and if you need to go down because of oversaturation just be sure to match all the colors in percentages.


 
I lowered those ink levels previously because of oversaturation in those colors. So you are saying that I should lower all equally? Won't that result in over saturation again?


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Based on the status message, everything looks fine. Here is why I say that:

1. Find where the says "%%%%[ *** Restarting Interpreter *** ]%%%%". Ignore everything above that.
2. Look for the DAT file. Here is your's - Curve: (KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST.DAT). Make sure it says it was loaded. Your's was.
3. Look for the ICC profile used. Here is your's - %TryingICC Profile: KIOSKBL1PGNLMQST]%. It was found and used.
4. Look for the RGB and CMYK source profiles. Here is your's - DigItDEFGFile: Defg_SWOP_TR001 and DigItDEFFile Def_NTSC1953. They were found.

So I don't think the RIP is processing the artwork incorrectly. I do agree with everyone else that you don't want to adjust the CMYK colors at different levels. Basically, you cut down the Cyan channel by 25%. This will obvisously affect the colors that use Cyan. I personally don't ever adjust the CMYK channels unless printing on to hard substrates like canvas. Depending on the Epson model you are using, you might want to adjust the white channel slider.

As for saturation, I prefer to adjust that in the graphic software program instead of the RIP as the amount of saturation is typically different from one artwork file to another. Having to make the adjustment in the RIP seems to much work for me. 

Just my opinion. Best wishes,

Mark


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

DAGuide said:


> I personally don't ever adjust the CMYK channels unless printing on to hard substrates like canvas. Depending on the Epson model you are using, you might want to adjust the white channel slider.


I agree, we don't ever change our colors.. like I mentioned before DAS does weird things. 

After you convert to CMYK > group your image > adjust colors to 100% and adjust your white since you are on bottled 100% should be ok.. but maybe lower it 90% if its a problem 

make sure you are curing your pretreat with teflon for at least 60 seconds with full pressure so that you don't have a damp shirt.


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## fleet (Jul 6, 2009)

Ah, and I was beginning to think there was a solution out there...

Anyway, thanks to all who took the time to try to help me. There isn't enough time in the day to get the real work done, it's refreshing that there are a few people out there that will help a guy out. Plus, I think some of you just like a good challenge. Maybe that's why you got into the DTG business to begin with.

In closing (for now) I have two last questions that I am hoping you will answer. 1. - Are the two source profiles I am using the ones I should be using? 2. - if the DAS file is a problem, wouldn't it just pertain to those components from the original DAS file and not the elements I imported into it?

Thanks again!

Barrie


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