# My experience from ISS AC



## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

Well i came up from warm and beautiful to Jersey to make my decision on my first DTG printer, and pretreat machine. I love the many different options in the market but it also makes it hard to choose a printer. Based on my research and time spent reading on the forum I was leaning towards the NeoFlex 2 coming into the event.

*DTG Digital M2* So prior to this event I have done a demo at Coldesi in Tampa of the M2, I loved the machine and was going to put a deposit down in February when the price was $20K. But after coming on the forum I saw how many people were having issues and the support was a joke. So i decided against buying the M2.

*Belquette* I got to spend alot of time talking with them about the MOD 1 and Genius. Both machines are great, I really love the Genius! The crew at Belquette is top notch and will be looking at them as an option for my 2nd printer, should be about the same time the Genius is ready in the fall. I also love that you can't find much of any problems with the support from the team.

*Neoflex 2* As I expected I love the printer, fits what I need from my first printer. What I didn't like was being told 3 different prices. I called All American about 2 weeks ago and asked some questions prior to the show and prices. I was told 10k for the orginal Neoflex and 12k for the Neoflex 2, only a 1k Deposit, and ~30 day till shipment. Saturday when I was asking more questions and watching it in action along with looking at the Neorip I heard one of the staff(Possibly a person helping AA for the show) tell a customer $13.5k and 45-60 day till shipment. I came back Sunday after taking in all the info and thinking of what I wanted to purchase. I came to the AA booth wanting to put a deposit down. I was told the price was 13k and 50% down with 30-45 days to ship. So I'm hoping to hear from AA on here about this inconsistency of info I've received.

On to Pretreat machines, I looked at every option with an open budget but wanted to buy one of the 3 main options in the $3k-$4k to put the left over budget on other things. Based on all the machines I saw I'm very disappointed. There were a few key features that every pretreat machine should have in my opinion. 1) A way to adjust width and length and width on the fly 2) simple and quick way to switch from light to dark pretreat 3) a container to collect over spray. 

*Viper One* Was my favorite out of the low cost machines but I didn't like how it tight it would be to get hoodies in due to its design. 

*Spider Mini* I didn't like how it wasted a lot of pretreat which ends up collecting on the bottom. 

*Speed Treater-TX* I like this but Didn't like the ability to switch back and forth with light and dark pretreat.

*Viper XPT-6000* Not a bad option if the price wasn't the same as the Edge.

*Belquette Edge* The best option I saw. Has every feature you can think of. I have a few more questions and some details of the machine I want to understand more but I think this is the best in the market and the Pretreater I want to purchase.

Also want to say that ISS is a great event to attend for anyone in the industry or wanting to get into the industry.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

geardrivenappare said:


> Well i came up from warm and beautiful to Jersey to make my decision on my first DTG printer, and pretreat machine. I love the many different options in the market but it also makes it hard to choose a printer. Based on my research and time spent reading on the forum I was leaning towards the NeoFlex 2 coming into the event.
> 
> *DTG Digital M2* So prior to this event I have done a demo at Coldesi in Tampa of the M2, I loved the machine and was going to put a deposit down in February when the price was $20K. But after coming on the forum I saw how many people were having issues and the support was a joke. So i decided against buying the M2.
> 
> ...


Something is not right.
NeoII show price was $12,000. On going price is $13,000.
I assume there were some miscommunication. I will honor this price include OnePass option which will exceed Speed most DTGs in same catagory.
Just copy paste this post and send any sales. Applies to all who was at the show. Until end of month.
AA has many NeoFlexII orders in house. It may effect the delivery time. This is 3rd show we exhibit NeoII at shows. 
Sorry for confusion.
PS: Yes Original NeoFlex is $10,000. And delivery is much faster.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Mike, thanks for stopping by our booth. For the EDGE, feel free to contact us for more detailed info. Sometimes shows are tough to get all the info you need.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

geardrivenappare said:


> On to Pretreat machines, I looked at every option with an open budget but wanted to buy one of the 3 main options in the $3k-$4k to put the left over budget on other things. Based on all the machines I saw I'm very disappointed. There were a few key features that every pretreat machine should have in my opinion. 1) A way to adjust width and length and width on the fly 2) simple and quick way to switch from light to dark pretreat 3) a container to collect over spray.
> 
> *Viper One* Was my favorite out of the low cost machines but I didn't like how it tight it would be to get hoodies in due to its design.
> 
> ...




Our SpeedTreater-TX can be simply changed from one pretreat to another in a minute with the added advantage of not losing any of the first pretreat that's in the machine tubing, something not available in other units. It also offers the largest spray area as well as being in your $3000 to $4000 price range. 

_


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## shirtmaine (Aug 27, 2005)

equipmentzone said:


> Our SpeedTreater-TX can be simply changed from one pretreat to another in a minute with the added advantage of not losing any of the first pretreat that's in the machine tubing, something not available in other units. It also offers the largest spray area as well as being in your $3000 to $4000 price range.
> 
> _


Harry is the SpeedTreater-TX $3000.00?

Thank you.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Actually Harry we have both in one and you simply push the button. One second later you can switch between sides and instantly begin spraying with no loss of fluid with no overspray.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

And the Edge sprays 18"x21" and can go larger if needed. Don't get me wrong, it's not a contest of info, I'm simply trying to correct misinformation about our products.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

shirtmaine said:


> Harry is the SpeedTreater-TX $3000.00?
> 
> Thank you.




Hi,

List price is $3995. Show special prices from ISS show still available this week.

_


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## Don2276 (Oct 4, 2010)

geardrivenappare said:


> Well i came up from warm and beautiful to Jersey to make my decision on my first DTG printer, and pretreat machine. I love the many different options in the market but it also makes it hard to choose a printer. Based on my research and time spent reading on the forum I was leaning towards the NeoFlex 2 coming into the event.
> 
> *DTG Digital M2* So prior to this event I have done a demo at Coldesi in Tampa of the M2, I loved the machine and was going to put a deposit down in February when the price was $20K. But after coming on the forum I saw how many people were having issues and the support was a joke. So i decided against buying the M2.
> 
> ...


 

Hi All,

I agree with the confusion at the AA booth. I was looking at their new Neo 3, and spoke to different sales people both on Friday before the Neo 3 was there as well as a salesman on Saturday, and I was given different prices as well. I know this machine is in its final stages of R & D, but I would think if they r showing it off they would have an idea of price. The confusion concerned me, hence one reason to hold off till the final price is released. Hope everyone enjoyed the ISS AC.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Don2276 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I agree with the confusion at the AA booth. I was looking at their new Neo 3, and spoke to different sales people both on Friday before the Neo 3 was there as well as a salesman on Saturday, and I was given different prices as well. I know this machine is in its final stages of R & D, but I would think if they r showing it off they would have an idea of price. The confusion concerned me, hence one reason to hold off till the final price is released. Hope everyone enjoyed the ISS AC.


I thought they were already shipping!? At ISS Long Beach it was supposed to be "ready" for shipping in just a few weeks. It's now been over 60 days and it's still not ready? Hmm...


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Again sorry about confusions. We had new people hired. Replace Eric's(dekay317) postion (he resigned because his wife's job was moved to Tampa near to BQ. He was asset of AA and wish his best). We liked him very much. He is 3rd X AA to BQ. 2 gone(?) I admit Tampa is better than Chicago, Atlata, LA or Philly.
Also we had new LA branch(open April) workers(new) were there. LA branch will operatie include full line of supplies to better service to west. On top AA had 2 volunteered NeoFamily to support AA. Too many hands. 
My sincere appology for not unify show price. This is very odd to Tigers. 
Again Show special was NeoFlex $10000 NeoFlexII $12000 NeoFlexIII $5000(for now). PT machine is $3000.(no air). NeoFlexII-I???????? Guess? Easy one to guess
Justin was at Nazdar booth to support Aeoon sale. When Cat is out? Lol.
Cheers! Printer are on me always.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Dekay317 said:


> I thought they were already shipping!? At ISS Long Beach it was supposed to be "ready" for shipping in just a few weeks. It's now been over 60 days and it's still not ready? Hmm...


It was great meeting you at the show Eric. Lol my wife was tripping out on the Genesis lol. We both were impressed. Anything you folks need out west give me a holler. Hand is extended. Really respect true engineering and quality people. Spectra has nothing but props to you


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

allamerican said:


> Again sorry about confusions. We had new people hired. Replace Eric's(dekay317) postion (he resigned because his wife's job was moved to Tampa near to BQ. He was asset of AA and wish his best). We liked him very much. He is 3rd X AA to BQ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. What is the time till shipment if I place a deposit tomorrow. Also what deposit is required I've heard 1k I've heard 50%. I will also be calling the office tomorrow since I'm flying back to Tampa in 20 mins.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

$1000 is for TSF members only. Just copy and paste to any sales person you will deal with.
AA do not suffering with cash flow. $1000 will be your sincere commitment. 
Thank you so much and I promise that your won't be disappointed. AA's pride and NeoFamily's.
Welcome to proud NeoFamily.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

JeridHill said:


> And the Edge sprays 18"x21" and can go larger if needed. Don't get me wrong, it's not a contest of info, I'm simply trying to correct misinformation about our products.


I saw a post from you stating 20" by 24" sprayable area, has the been changed? Either way I'll be giving you a call to set a time to come in and go over a few details since I'm in Riverview.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Our original specs were for a larger print area but to try to control costs we made it a little smaller. The good thing is it's still larger than the printable area on most DTG printers. We would be able to get longer prints but not sure how much wider we can go.


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## shirtmaine (Aug 27, 2005)

allamerican said:


> Again sorry about confusions. We had new people hired. Replace Eric's(dekay317) postion (he resigned because his wife's job was moved to Tampa near to BQ. He was asset of AA and wish his best). We liked him very much. He is 3rd X AA to BQ. 2 gone(?) I admit Tampa is better than Chicago, Atlata, LA or Philly.
> Also we had new LA branch(open April) workers(new) were there. LA branch will operatie include full line of supplies to better service to west. On top AA had 2 volunteered NeoFamily to support AA. Too many hands.
> My sincere appology for not unify show price. This is very odd to Tigers.
> Again Show special was NeoFlex $10000 NeoFlexII $12000 NeoFlexIII $5000(for now). PT machine is $3000.(no air). NeoFlexII-I???????? Guess? Easy one to guess
> ...


Peter which no air Pretreat Machine is $3000?


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

shirtmaine said:


> Peter which no air Pretreat Machine is $3000?


Made in Italy. Mfg doesn't like us to repeat their name. Hint is EZ used to carry and Rjet also carry this line now. For details ask any sales in AA. 
AA does understand well on PT machine has to be inexpensive but works for purpose. AA tested months and compared with others. PT machine is nothing but support machine. If PT machine is near to printer cost It is same as we pay more money to tires than car.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

allamerican said:


> Made in Italy. Mfg doesn't like us to repeat their name. Hint is EZ used to carry and Rjet also carry this line now. For details ask any sales in AA.
> AA does understand well on PT machine has to be inexpensive but works for purpose. AA tested months and compared with others. PT machine is nothing but support machine. If PT machine is near to printer cost It is same as we pay more money to tires than car.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always.


Was good meeting you at the show Peter. Hope everything works out for you and your west coast office. Wish I would have had a chance to see your printer. I was so busy at the show. Did see the Aeoon. Not bad


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## shirtmaine (Aug 27, 2005)

allamerican said:


> Made in Italy. Mfg doesn't like us to repeat their name. Hint is EZ used to carry and Rjet also carry this line now. For details ask any sales in AA.
> AA does understand well on PT machine has to be inexpensive but works for purpose. AA tested months and compared with others. PT machine is nothing but support machine. If PT machine is near to printer cost It is same as we pay more money to tires than car.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always.


Thank you for the information Peter.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

DTGPRINTERPARTS said:


> Did see the Aeoon. Not bad


Thank you! Not bad? LOL. 
Totally different technology than you are involved and wishing product.
Happy to see you are pleased on AA obtained Aeoon technology. 
If you need electronics, firmware program Let me know. I may provide you state of art. As your favorite words. Reach out-----.
Cheers to NeoFamily! Beers are on me always.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lol I will stick with my crew but thanks. I like Genesis. I have never seen such a great printer. Only seeing it in minutes it is very pressurized I can tell. If you need help with West Coast come to Fresno. Will teach your guys anytime. Free of charge. My uncle owns a restaurant across the street. Beers will be on me and Mexican food at his place is amazing. Popsies is the place. Yes you can count on me buddy. Anything you need always ask without hesitation. I always help out Neo Family when in need


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Island Designs said:


> Has the Neo III completed the R&D testing stage?


Some people came to our booth that said wasn't printing yet. Peter any word on when you will have a printer running?


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

I have a question for the vendors, when you price your dtg printers do you price it with the first set of consumables, rip software, standard size platoons?


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

geardrivenappare said:


> I have a question for the vendors, when you price your dtg printers do you price it with the first set of consumables, rip software, standard size platoons?


When we price our products, it includes everything (not the F2000). RIP, inks, cleaning supplies etc.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

geardrivenappare said:


> I have a question for the vendors, when you price your dtg printers do you price it with the first set of consumables, rip software, standard size platoons?


Most vendors include a supply package with their printers. Each supply package is going to be different depending on the vendor and or the printer being sold.

As Jerid said, BelQuette provides customers with a complete supply kit. The only things necessary that are not included are a PC and heat press.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Ours comes with everything and one standard platen. Everyone is different though


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

Well just got done doing a more detailed demo at the Belquette HQ and have decided to choose the Mod1 with the Edge pretreater. I love the products and the staff are top notch!


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Thanks Michael, it was a pleasure! You can see we are excited about the industry and are always trying to better our products and services. We welcome you and anticipate a great relationship!


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

My clothing line sponsors a small race shop out of Tulsa, OK called humble performance. I choose to sponsor their shop car over larger teams because they are what their name suggest, very humble hard workers. They let some of the other shops talk down to them all they want, they do the talking at the track and with the cars they build for customers. I see the same quality in the crew at BelQuette. Work Hard, Stay Humble, Let the shirts do the talking!


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

allamerican said:


> I will call him. Jim wasn't at show.


Jim Black was most certainly at the show. I personally spoke to him.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Thread note:* a lot of off topic posts (and replies to those off topic posts) have been moved out of this thread. Let's keep this productive and focused on owners sharing their experiences instead of yet another thread of DTG vendors going after each other


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

Jim was differently at the show.


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

Rodney said:


> *Thread note:* a lot of off topic posts (and replies to those off topic posts) have been moved out of this thread. Let's keep this productive and focused on owners sharing their experiences instead of yet another thread of DTG vendors going after each other


Its not vendors going at it, its everyone telling AA he's an A-hole.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Rodney said:


> *Thread note:* a lot of off topic posts (and replies to those off topic posts) have been moved out of this thread. Let's keep this productive and focused on owners sharing their experiences instead of yet another thread of DTG vendors going after each other


Tell that to Peter. It wasn't me this time that was tired of his bs. I was simply sticking up for another manufacturer and a customer of theirs. He was slandering not one but two companies. You may need to have a sit down with him. I can speak for everyone when I say we are all tired of his crap and I've said it many times. Always jumping in to make things negative. I wasn't even going to get on this thread until that he jumped on. Seriously Rodney he's annoying to everyone


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

geardrivenappare said:


> its not vendors going at it, its everyone telling aa he's an a-hole.


lol and thank you!!


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

Little update since everything was posted. I got a call from Jim Black apologizing for the confusion and offered the NeoFlex2 for $2k less than my quote. I didn't even consider it, the issues with the price and deadline made me take a better look at the MOD1 and peters comments after I decided to go that route sealed the deal for me. Jerid at BQ took the high road after he saw where this thread was going which gained even more respect from me. I'm also an A-hole that's why I stayed around for the argument


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

geardrivenappare said:


> Little update since everything was posted. I got a call from Jim Black apologizing for the confusion and offered the NeoFlex2 for $2k less than my quote. I didn't even consider it, the issues with the price and deadline made me take a better look at the MOD1 and peters comments after I decided to go that route sealed the deal for me. Jerid at BQ took the high road after he saw where this thread was going which gained even more respect from me. I'm also an A-hole that's why I stayed around for the argument


Lol too funny. Worker apologizes for boss. Never seen that lmao. Yes Jerid did. I respect BQ and that's why I had to stick up for them. I usually take the high road but man this is a circus and you seen just one show lol!


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Sorry for getting crazy too. I apologize to everyone and the forum should be for people, this thread was opinion on the show etc. I hope we can get on topic here. I just saw something I didn't like and went for it. Nobody should be jealous of who bought what from who. A person's decision is their decision on what they do with their money and they can only make the best decision for them. 

You can't get each and every sale so there's no need to rattle cages. If you have a person's best interest you won't have to do that. Good luck to you all, love and peace. 

Be good,
You're friend in the business and DTG's Young Gun!
-Anthony Creek


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

So i heard I missed out on the party without a chance to defend myself. Thanks to those who stuck up for me (and AnaJet) on my behalf, 


Oh!! Congrats to you Mike! Belquette is a solid company with good people running it.


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

MZDEELO said:


> So i heard I missed out on the party without a chance to defend myself. Thanks to those who stuck up for me (and AnaJet) on my behalf,
> 
> 
> Oh!! Congrats to you Mike! Belquette is a solid company with good people running it.


I don't recall Anajet or you being mentioned, I might of looked over it. Thanks!


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

geardrivenappare said:


> I don't recall Anajet or you being mentioned, I might of looked over it. Thanks!


Wasn't it on the post about the M and R? Said that the MP5 failed?


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

geardrivenappare said:


> I don't recall Anajet or you being mentioned, I might of looked over it. Thanks!



the mP5i and the mP10i are AnaJet Printers


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

DTGPRINTERPARTS said:


> Wasn't it on the post about the M and R? Said that the MP5 failed?



lol.. if that was true i would be crying in a corner at a trade show every time someone came up asking to see a print on the mp5 lol


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

MZDEELO said:


> the mP5i and the mP10i are AnaJet Printers


I think it was a different thread. This was a Mod1 vs neoflex2 battle.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

My bad its on this thread, I'm getting old... 
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t511081-2.html


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

so much looking around while no sleep is no bueno


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

DTGPRINTERPARTS said:


> My bad its on this thread, I'm getting old...
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t511081-2.html


thanks for making me look like a lunatic Anthony!!!!


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

You're welcome, you can do that by yourself at the next NBM show after party though ahhhhhhhhhhhh lol


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## fldesign (Mar 3, 2015)

Wow, less than 3k pretreatment? I was looking at the new Viperone no compressor, but this mystery Italian machine has my interest now.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

fldesign said:


> Wow, less than 3k pretreatment? I was looking at the new Viperone no compressor, but this mystery Italian machine has my interest now.


Lol which mystery machine?


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

Well I picked up my Belquette Mod1 and Edge on Thursday. I'll be making a new thread with my first week review of the equipment and the company next weekend. Short story is Belquette and it's staff are top notch!


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

DTGPRINTERPARTS said:


> fldesign said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, less than 3k pretreatment? I was looking at the new Viperone no compressor, but this mystery Italian machine has my interest now.
> ...


I believe he's referring to the new pretreater from AA. You know another product they don't have and isn't proven but are more than happy to take money for. They seem to like doing business that way. I got my equipment from Belquette the day after payment!


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

DTGPRINTERPARTS said:


> Lol which mystery machine?


The one from Tricksy s.r.l. 

I have seen this pre-treatment machine working and seems reliable but the new one they make is fantastic because of the ability to select the areas to pretreat + the volume of pretreat to use.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Correct! Tricksy is AA supplier. Made in Italy.There are no secrets. I flew in Milan last year for testing. Newest version. They made great Pretreat machine. If anyone does not satisfy AA will guarantee money back. Controls are all electronic.
I keep saying that PT machine has to be way cheaper than now. Supporting equipment should not be 60% of some Printer. As same as tires are 60% of the car.
All printers are getting faster. Expecially by OnePass RIP is speeding up. Pretreat machine should keep up too. Few seconds, that should be it. Easy to clean is must to musts. One button few second.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Regardless of how fast a pretreatment machine can spray at the end of the day it still takes 30-40 seconds to dry a shirt before it can be printed. The bottle neck in production speed for pretreating is the heat press. I don't care if a PT machine can spray an entire shirt in 0.5 sec that has ZERO effect on the how fast the shirt will be ready for the printer. As long as the PT machine is faster than the shirt can dry that is all that matters. This comes from actually owning a shop utilizing 2 heat presses and a Viper One. Hopefully we will eliminate the entire pretreatment step but for now the heat press is the slowest part of the entire DTG process!


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

Dekay317 said:


> Regardless of how fast a pretreatment machine can spray at the end of the day it still takes 30-40 seconds to dry a shirt before it can be printed. The bottle neck in production speed for pretreating is the heat press. I don't care if a PT machine can spray an entire shirt in 0.5 sec that has ZERO effect on the how fast the shirt will be ready for the printer. As long as the PT machine is faster than the shirt can dry that is all that matters. This comes from actually owning a shop utilizing 2 heat presses and a Viper One. Hopefully we will eliminate the entire pretreatment step but for now the heat press is the slowest part of the entire DTG process!


I totally agree with you. 

The first manufacture that is able to do that will be ...


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## geardrivenappare (Aug 28, 2014)

allamerican said:


> Correct! Tricksy is AA supplier. Made in Italy.There are no secrets. I flew in Milan last year for testing. Newest version. They made great Pretreat machine. If anyone does not satisfy AA will guarantee money back. Controls are all electronic.
> I keep saying that PT machine has to be way cheaper than now. Supporting equipment should not be 60% of some Printer. As same as tires are 60% of the car.
> All printers are getting faster. Expecially by OnePass RIP is speeding up. Pretreat machine should keep up too. Few seconds, that should be it. Easy to clean is must to musts. One button few second.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always.


You carry the viper xpt-6000 and sell it for the same price as the BQ Edge so why sell it if you feel that way about the prices of them? I don't get how you could price a viper xpt-6000 at 7k when it doesn't stack up to the BQ Edge. Its 58.33% of the cost of the neoflex2, 70% of the neoflex1, and 140% the cost of the neo3.


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## Island Designs (Sep 14, 2014)

fldesign said:


> Wow, less than 3k pretreatment? I was looking at the new Viperone no compressor, but this mystery Italian machine has my interest now.


I believe you have to buy a printer from them, in order to get the 3K price.


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## Island Designs (Sep 14, 2014)

Dekay317 said:


> Regardless of how fast a pretreatment machine can spray at the end of the day it still takes 30-40 seconds to dry a shirt before it can be printed. The bottle neck in production speed for pretreating is the heat press. I don't care if a PT machine can spray an entire shirt in 0.5 sec that has ZERO effect on the how fast the shirt will be ready for the printer. As long as the PT machine is faster than the shirt can dry that is all that matters. This comes from actually owning a shop utilizing 2 heat presses and a Viper One. Hopefully we will eliminate the entire pretreatment step but for now the heat press is the slowest part of the entire DTG process!


You're right, I totally agree with you!

THE HEAT PRESS IS THE BOTTLENECK IN DTG!

I see you actually have DTG printing experience...lol


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Island Designs said:


> You're right, I totally agree with you!
> 
> THE HEAT PRESS IS THE BOTTLENECK IN DTG!
> 
> I see you actually have DTG printing experience...lol


LOL just a smidge!!  Unlike most the other mfg reps on here I actually have real world experience in the industry.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Mike, as I said before I do turely wish your best. I want to see you will grow rapidly to buy more machines in future. Never said you made bad choice. Didn't I apology many times about sales people's inconstant price? That show was very hactic. Justin wasn't there and I wasn't involved. 
If you did not read Here again. I am so sorry AA sales team was not good at AC ISS show. Best wish to you.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

You can dryer faster with these, I don't have the cost yet of this model, there is many different brand.
This one is from Turkey


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

What is the name of the heat box and whom manufactures it?


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## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

and has anyone had any experience with the Black Body Forced Air Conveyors?

I do not like the larger footprint..but...


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

NZACO said:


> What is the name of the heat box and whom manufactures it?


Adelco, Acosgraf, chiossie & cavazzuti do the same,

This one is from RND - BTF 77/5 - Ismir - Turkey - RND


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

jgabby said:


> You can dryer faster with these, I don't have the cost yet of this model, there is many different brand.
> This one is from Turkey




The drawer type dryers actually require a longer drying time then a heat press would. You also need to consider utility costs as most of the drawer units require 220 volt electrical and draw much more amperage.

_


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

I guess I had not understood. I always wondered what tricksy was. I thought it was a joke but now I know it isn't. So when someone says you have a tricky printer they don't mean quality. They mean brand. Makes sense now.


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

equipmentzone said:


> The drawer type dryers actually require a longer drying time then a heat press would. You also need to consider utility costs as most of the drawer units require 220 volt electrical and draw much more amperage.
> 
> _


.. yes and the finished results of using a draw system are, in my opinion, worth the investment.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

okprinter said:


> and has anyone had any experience with the Black Body Forced Air Conveyors?
> 
> I do not like the larger footprint..but...



Just keep in mind that with the conveyor dryer your electric costs are going to be substantially higher. The amps used on this specific dryer is almost as much as running six 16"x20" heat presses at one time.

You will still need a heat press for pressing your pretreated shirts to flatten the fibers.

_


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## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

equipmentzone said:


> Just keep in mind that with the conveyor dryer your electric costs are going to be substantially higher. The amps used on this specific dryer is almost as much as running six 16"x20" heat presses at one time.
> 
> You will still need a heat press for pressing your pretreated shirts to flatten the fibers.
> 
> _


Harry, thanks...yep trying to balance all those expenses...currently running 3 heat presses now....


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

Did you want to be my Philly twin Peter? lol


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

okprinter said:


> Harry, thanks...yep trying to balance all those expenses...currently running 3 heat presses now....




There is nothing wrong with using the right kind of conveyor dryer, even in combination with heat presses.

The other factor to keep in mind is the retention time a conveyor dryer will require. With textile screen printing using plastisol (vinyl type) inks, you just need to get the ink film to a certain temperature to fuse the ink. Once the ink is fused you don't need to keep it any longer under heat. Direct to garment printing uses water based inks so the conveyor dryer needs to bring the ink up to a certain temperature and then keep it at that temperature for an amount of time to dry off the water in the ink. Some conveyor dryers, especially the shorter length ones, require a much longer retention time in the dryer (meaning much slower belt speeds) to have enough time to dry dtg inks.

_


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

AA had heat box few years ago. Few sold and never restock again. Ink will crack after wash without heat pressing. Not washout. 220v 1phase or 3ph. In EU it is very common but not in USA. It was not same electric consumption. Heated air keep going out even though recycle heated air. AA's conclusion was too much air actually against ink curing well. We found out by operating Aeoon. Brown dryer with minimal airflow worked very well. Our demo Interchange gas dryer: reduced airflow to 1/3. This was sweet spot. We have to change gears to reduce fan speed because by air flow adjustment minimum was already too much. Lots of Air was myth to our exprience. Heat box is Airflow only. 
For small operation : electric Qtz bulb belt dryer(not heat radiant panel) and short heat press is my suggestion.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

NZACO said:


> .. yes and the finished results of using a draw system are, in my opinion, worth the investment.




However it is a much higher purchase expense. In the US the smallest drawer type dryers are from $7000 to $10,000.


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## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

equipmentzone said:


> However it is a much higher purchase expense. In the US the smallest drawer type dryers are from $7000 to $10,000.


The Lawson Digi-dry box is only $3995 list price....see attached


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## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

allamerican said:


> AA had heat box few years ago. Few sold and never restock again. Ink will crack after wash without heat pressing. Not washout. 220v 1phase or 3ph. In EU it is very common but not in USA. It was not same electric consumption. Heated air keep going out even though recycle heated air. AA's conclusion was too much air actually against ink curing well. We found out by operating Aeoon. Brown dryer with minimal airflow worked very well. Our demo Interchange gas dryer: reduced airflow to 1/3. This was sweet spot. We have to change gears to reduce fan speed because by air flow adjustment minimum was already too much. Lots of Air was myth to our exprience. Heat box is Airflow only.
> For small operation : electric Qtz bulb belt dryer(not heat radiant panel) and short heat press is my suggestion.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always.


Peter, Thanks this is something that still has my interest, the Lawson Digi-Dry Box unit is interesting and seems to have some of the features that you mention..


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

equipmentzone said:


> However it is a much higher purchase expense. In the US the smallest drawer type dryers are from $7000 to $10,000.


yes the purchase expense was through the roof but I do like working at the front of the machine and the required space is very small. In hindsight I do like Peters information about using an 'electric Qtz bulb belt dryer(not heat radiant panel) and short heat press' and will be finding out more information.


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

allamerican said:


> AA had heat box few years ago. Few sold and never restock again. Ink will crack after wash without heat pressing. Not washout. 220v 1phase or 3ph. In EU it is very common but not in USA. It was not same electric consumption. Heated air keep going out even though recycle heated air. AA's conclusion was too much air actually against ink curing well. We found out by operating Aeoon. Brown dryer with minimal airflow worked very well. Our demo Interchange gas dryer: reduced airflow to 1/3. This was sweet spot. We have to change gears to reduce fan speed because by air flow adjustment minimum was already too much. Lots of Air was myth to our exprience. Heat box is Airflow only.
> For small operation : electric Qtz bulb belt dryer(not heat radiant panel) and short heat press is my suggestion.
> Cheers! Beers are on me always.


Peter can you send me more information about the 'electric Qtz bulb belt dryer(not heat radiant panel) and short heat press' conbernation.
Thank You


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Thread note:* some off topic posts have been moved out of this thread.


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## DTGPRINTERPARTS (Jul 13, 2012)

That's the beauty of TSF


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

okprinter said:


> and has anyone had any experience with the Black Body Forced Air Conveyors?
> 
> I do not like the larger footprint..but...


We just got one in and will be testing it next week. I'll let you know our results.


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## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

JeridHill said:


> We just got one in and will be testing it next week. I'll let you know our results.


Jeri, thank you...when I talked with Eric with BBC he said he was on his way to see you after he left OKC.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Roy the foot print is really small compared to what I'm used to seeing with other dryers. We got the 36" wide belt version and I'm excited to see it up and running next week!


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