# What di you use for rhinestone decal backing ??



## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Hello I was wondering what you guys are using for you rhinestone decal carrier sheet if that's what it's called. I been swing xcpel and another one forgot the name. Would apreciate you input and place where I can purchase this material.


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## L144S (Aug 5, 2011)

StickOn from rhinestone designz


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

DAS has their own brand that alot of people use also.I use xpel.


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## jaimielyn (Jul 4, 2011)

I have heard Stick ons are great!! I personally haven't tried any of them yet. But stick ons will be the one I use. Hope this helps


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

I will try the stick on. From what I heard you need to be a member of DAS to order from them. I also hear alot of xpel but can't find out where to buy it


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

2STRONG said:


> I will try the stick on. From what I heard you need to be a member of DAS to order from them. I also hear alot of xpel but can't find out where to buy it



You can get it directly from their site XPEL Technologies Corp.: Paint & Headlamp Protection Material By The Foot I just learned about this so I don't know how well it works but plan on trying it out as soon as I can get a sample from them.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I have used both DAS and stickon. I like both but like the stick on better. As a test, I put a stick on decal on a Tervis tumbler. I took a deep breath and put it in the dishwasher on pots and pan setting and used heat dry. My decal is still on my cup as tight as ever and all stones are there. Would I tell a customer to do this? NO. I tell them to hand wash and dry. I just wanted to see what would happen. Since it was my own cup and the sample that was sent with my material, I was not going to cry if it came off. I have not tried sending the DAS material through the dishwasher.


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## Susan Scott (Mar 23, 2011)

I use stick on from Rhinestone design and I love it and it is much cheaper the xpel . You won't be sorry I have told a lot a people about it and they have ordered it and love it as well very good product. Just my opinon

Susan (Canada)


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## gabenick2 (Nov 23, 2010)

jean518 said:


> I have used both DAS and stickon. I like both but like the stick on better. As a test, I put a stick on decal on a Tervis tumbler. I took a deep breath and put it in the dishwasher on pots and pan setting and used heat dry. My decal is still on my cup as tight as ever and all stones are there. Would I tell a customer to do this? NO. I tell them to hand wash and dry. I just wanted to see what would happen. Since it was my own cup and the sample that was sent with my material, I was not going to cry if it came off. I have not tried sending the DAS material through the dishwasher.


Which one is the better deal?


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Has been a while since I bought the DAS decal so do not know which is the better deal at this point. I usually go more for the product that I like.


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## DCans (Nov 21, 2009)

I use DAS software and really like it, but I can tell you 2 things about DAS:

1. That you not only have to be a DAS customer, but have to have bought the DAS rhinestone system to buy the supplies from them, or at least that is what they told me in January.

2. Nothing from DAS is cheap.


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

DCans said:


> I use DAS software and really like it, but I can tell you 2 things about DAS:
> 
> 1. That you not only have to be a DAS customer, but have to have bought the DAS rhinestone system to buy the supplies from them, or at least that is what they told me in January.
> 
> 2. Nothing from DAS is cheap.


This is correct because I have talked to DAS many times over the past few years and just never pulled the trigger because of all their "proprietary" systems. Basically what you have to buy from them is their custom made software because my cutter is the same cutters they sell with their system (GCC brand) so if you dont need a cutter you can still get the software but they wont sell you any supplies if you havent purchases their software.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

AldenMediaGroup said:


> This is correct because I have talked to DAS many times over the past few years and just never pulled the trigger because of all their "proprietary" systems. Basically what you have to buy from them is their custom made software because my cutter is the same cutters they sell with their system (GCC brand) so if you dont need a cutter you can still get the software but they wont sell you any supplies if you havent purchases their software.


 

That just doesnt sound right but i guess they are doing ok if the can afford to do that...


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## Lin77 (Feb 17, 2011)

You can also buy the 3M Paint Protection Film from your local auto parts store. I know Napa carries it.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

great i will check it it the stickon fails me. but it seems to have some good reviews so i hope it works


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

Should have my StickOn sample today (9.5"x 12") and Xpel just called me an hour ago and are sending me 12" x 10ft sample. I am already leaning towards Xpel just because of their customer service. I will give an update when I have tried both.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Did you ave tosetup an account for the sample of xpel??


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

2STRONG said:


> Did you ave tosetup an account for the sample of xpel??



I did fill out a form to get pricing for rolls instead of by the foot pricing and they called me up to get more info on my business. But its not any different than setting up an account to buy the StickOn material. He did say the rhinestone industry has been buying from them and he didnt know why so I said there was another company that makes you buy their software before they will sell you supplies. I didnt mention DAS by name and he said "well there is a good chance that company buys from us" so for all I know he could mean DAS or StickOn lol. Regardless you can just go buy a foot of it off their site if you dont want to wait for me to get done messing with it.


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## jaimielyn (Jul 4, 2011)

How much did you pay for the samples?


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

jaimielyn said:


> How much did you pay for the samples?



Well I dont know if I just got lucky but he sent me the 12" x 10' sample no charge. Yet I had to pay $6.50 + $5.95 shipping for the 9.5" x 12" StickOn piece because they dont exactly have a way to get a sample on their site I just bought the smallest thing they had. Things like that go a long way with me. 

You also have to remember I can trademark a name and slap it on xpel sheets/rolls and sell it as my own product so it could be that DAS and StickOn are selling you xpel who knows but if you get them side by side and they are identical (which I will report back here when I see them next to each other) chances are you have the same product in your hand with 2 different names.When you put Avery and Oracal white vinyl side by side you can tell they have a different chemical process that makes them they arent the same other than the fact they are both white and stick to smooth surfaces.


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## jaimielyn (Jul 4, 2011)

Can you give me the websites of the places you got samples from?


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

jaimielyn said:


> Can you give me the websites of the places you got samples from?


XPEL Technologies Corp.: Paint & Headlamp Protection Material By The Foot 

You can order by the foot there but I filled out the form for the dealer program and they called me. It took a few days before they contacted me though. Like I mentioned before I dont know if they do that for everyone but my business is a corporation which give me a little more clout when doing business.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

The DAS material and the Stick On material are not the same. I know that for a fact. I have both.


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

jean518 said:


> The DAS material and the Stick On material are not the same. I know that for a fact. I have both.


I just said it was possible didnt say it was fact but thanks for clearing that up. Have you tried xpel? if not ill see if they are the same or not when I get my xpel sample.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I was just giving clarification. Others may take it as being so. I have not tried xpel.


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

jean518 said:


> I was just giving clarification. Others may take it as being so. I have not tried xpel.


I'm sorry I wont use "it could be" when trying to make a point unless I know its fact. I wasn't aware that could be the cause of confusion I havent been here that long so I dont know the crowd very well yet. Forgive my assumptions for thinking those on the forum understood knew the difference between "they are the same" and "they could be the same". DAS is a company that had the resources to develop their own software so I could see them as also being able to create their own vinyl product. However rhinestone designz doesnt strike me as having the same resources but again that still doesnt mean they sell xpel it could be something else entirely. 

Hope that clears things up about my statement above sorry if anyone thought I was stating facts about xpel.


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## L144S (Aug 5, 2011)

I have not used xpel but I did try the 3m, stick on is like a sticker, clean and dry the surface and they go on like a sticker, I like the way it presses and the instalation is super easy.
The 3m is more like the cling window designs, you have to wet the back to make it stick and then the water behind it has to evaporate.
I worry here in the North East how hard it is for the water behind to evaporate in winter. I would guess it would freeze first. this for right now makes the Stick on a better choice for me.

What I like about the stick on is the plastic backing, it would take a lot to cut through it vs the 3m with the paper backing which was really easy to make a mess of when I was trying to figure out how to cut it.

Brian at Rhinstone Designz has been super helpful and spent quite a bit of time working with me and my cutter to get the right settings.

I do suggest a sepapate blade and holder for whatever you choose, the blade setting is different from lets say sticky flock. It was a PITA to get the blade back. I had an extra holder and blade and they are now dedicated to me Stick On


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

I have a sheet of stuck on and was going to try a decal tomorow. I have a Roland gx23 and have no clue what blade to use for it or or force. It feels thick but no as thick as my sticky flock. I think I have a micrometer somewher I will check the thickness


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## L144S (Aug 5, 2011)

65 blade and the slowest speed. I ended up putting it on a carrier sheet so I could get a little more downforce. I only have 2 rollers on my cutter so I just couldn't get enough "pinch" without the carrier sheet.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Dam u need to buy anothe blade  I just bought the 60 for my sticky flock. Maybe I'll try that and see how it works. I only have 2 pinch rollers on my gx24 as well


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I have used a 60 and a specialty 45.


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## L144S (Aug 5, 2011)

Sorry, I ment 60


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Oh good lol


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

I agree with L144S on having blades dedicated to different media. Even with vinyl there are differences like chrome, gold and metallics very in thickness compared to the normal colors. Chrome is pretty thick and they even recommend 60 degree blades but I use 45 for most vinyl. 

I dont have an issue with paper backing since all the vinyl I use has paper I am used to setting the depth that just comes with practice and knowing your machine. I dont know about cheaper machines but mine has a menu for doing small test cuts and the pattern it makes lets you know if you need to make adjustments etc. but still going back to having holders setup for vinyl, flock and rhinestone decal material is much less of a headache.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

If your machine does not have the cut test feature, just make a small box or a small letter and use that for your test pattern. Even though mine does have the cut test feature it is just as easy to do it this way.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

jean518 said:


> If your machine does not have the cut test feature, just make a small box or a small letter and use that for your test pattern. Even though mine does have the cut test feature it is just as easy to do it this way.


Same here. I actually make a little star with a box around it and use that for my cut test. That way I don't have to take my cutter offline or press any buttons on the cutter itself at all.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

L144S said:


> 65 blade and the slowest speed. I ended up putting it on a carrier sheet so I could get a little more downforce. I only have 2 rollers on my cutter so I just couldn't get enough "pinch" without the carrier sheet.


 

what do you use for a carrier sheet?? i have never done this befor.. so im going to try and cut all the way through the stickon material?? can i use my transfer taper for my decals? oh yeah now that im thinking about it that might work//


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## L144S (Aug 5, 2011)

my cutter came with a carrier sheet and you can buy them at places like AC moore that have craft cutters BUT you can also make one, which I have not done, by using one of those really thin flexable cutting boards, spray with low tack post it spray.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

Oh good idea. The transfer tape might leave it sticky. So I do cut through the whole piece?


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

2STRONG said:


> Oh good idea. The transfer tape might leave it sticky. So I do cut through the whole piece?



You should only be cutting through the stickon material not the plastic backing. You leave that on until it is ready to be applied to the surface.


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## CyberSultan (Aug 25, 2008)

AldenMediaGroup said:


> You also have to remember I can trademark a name and slap it on xpel sheets/rolls and sell it as my own product so it could be that DAS and StickOn are selling you xpel who knows but if you get them side by side and they are identical (which I will report back here when I see them next to each other) chances are you have the same product in your hand with 2 different names.When you put Avery and Oracal white vinyl side by side you can tell they have a different chemical process that makes them they arent the same other than the fact they are both white and stick to smooth surfaces.


Last year we experimented with several different products to find the right combination of material, adhesive, and liner for rhinestone decals. When we found one combination that worked best for rhinestone decals (both in ease of decal creation, application, and withstanding the hot and cold seasons), we began offering our Rhinestone StickOns product at the beginning of this year.

Just recently, a couple different manufacturers came out with a few new offerings that do use the same liner as our material (they look the same as one another and with ours). However, they have varying compositions that make up their different grade of films, adding clear layers that are specific to the automotive industry (to protect against chips, staining & contamination, or even offer self-healing capabilities). These layers make each product unique, affect the cost of the materials, and may be unnecessary for rhinestone decals or even affect the way it holds the rhinestones. All paint protection films are not alike, so just make sure you test a particular material thoroughly before offering decals to customers.


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## 2STRONG (Oct 17, 2007)

I just did a couple test cuts. With stickon. I filed it an will post when dine. Nothing big just a learn with m as I learned. I'm using a Roland gx24. And M usind 60 blade tried it without carrier sheet at different forces and tried it with carrier sheet with carrier sheet and I will be doing a final cut tonight and try my first decal. Hopefully it come out ok


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## AldenMediaGroup (May 3, 2011)

CyberSultan said:


> Last year we experimented with several different products to find the right combination of material, adhesive, and liner for rhinestone decals. When we found one combination that worked best for rhinestone decals (both in ease of decal creation, application, and withstanding the hot and cold seasons), we began offering our Rhinestone StickOns product at the beginning of this year.
> 
> Just recently, a couple different manufacturers came out with a few new offerings that do use the same liner as our material (they look the same as one another and with ours). However, they have varying compositions that make up their different grade of films, adding clear layers that are specific to the automotive industry (to protect against chips, staining & contamination, or even offer self-healing capabilities). These layers make each product unique, affect the cost of the materials, and may be unnecessary for rhinestone decals or even affect the way it holds the rhinestones. All paint protection films are not alike, so just make sure you test a particular material thoroughly before offering decals to customers.



That is exactly what I am doing I have a sheet of StickOn material that I ordered last week and just received my Xpel sample roll and have every intention of making identical decals and putting them on my car side by side to see how the fair against each other. I will say this though, side by side they look and feel identical. I am not a chemist and dont care enough to have them analyzed to prove if they are or arent the exact same I am only making a statement of what I see and it IS NOT fact just an opinion. I dont care about cost I care more about quality of product if StickOn is the better material for my needs I will use it if Xpel is the better material I will use it.

I was simply stating that many times when you get back to the very raw manufacturing plant they make everyone's material. I do video production and miniDV tapes may have sony, panasonic, TDK or another brand name on it however there are only two companies that make the material for the actual tape. Its just how manufacturing works that's all Im saying. If you went out and sourced your own product to be made from scratch great (I just know that isnt cheap to do), if you just went and found the best product already being made and worked out a deal with a plant to have a product for rhinestones that's just as great there isnt a right or wrong way to create a product. Its the whole purpose of why we are on this forum trying to figure out a developing market that is the rhinestone decal trade.


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## Krys (Oct 30, 2011)

WOW! I'm glad I found this thread. I have been wondering how to use rhinestones and what kind of backing to use.


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