# Ink fading after one wash(fustrating)



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

Ive been trying to print a high detailed one color design for months through different printers and no matter if its with plastisol, dtg, or discharge ink it fades after one wash. We are using white Alstyle shirts that are 100% cotton. The first printer promised us no fading with their DTG printer and the shirts faded after one wash. Then we went to another DTG printer and same thing happened. We found a closer printer and tried the design with plastisol ink and discharge and still got the same fading result, we even tried using canvas tees. The owner of the shop keeps saying they don't know why the ink is fading and hasn't been able to fix the issue.
Do you guys have any tips on what the issue could be.


----------



## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

I would have said it was a curing issue, but the fact that you have tried different methods and different people to print the work, I wouldn't believe they all failed to cure them correctly. I think we need pictures of the faded items. I'm hoping you took a before wash and after wash of each test.


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

Out of all the inks, plastisol held up the best. I don't know if im expecting more than whats optimal through screen printing but after one wash you can clearly see white fabric poking up through the black ink. Does it matter what color the tee is when it comes to printing with plastisol?
Would you like to see pictures?


----------



## LoneWolf2 (Aug 10, 2007)

Definitely need some pictures to see.
Also, the fading you are seeing could possibly just be the fibers from the fabric poking up through the ink after washing it (which the manner that you wash them in could have an impact on it as well).


----------



## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

Oh OK.
What you are experiencing is fibrillation.
Here is a link to an article about it, and even though I think the article is too long, it has some good information in it about your fibrillation problem.

How To... Eliminate Fibrillation | Printwear


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

I have attached 2 pictures of the before and after on a white tee using plastisol and one more on a red tee after a wash using discharge.


----------



## FullSpectrumSeps (Aug 2, 2012)

This is really quite common.

With DTG and Transfer it is always really a thin layer of ink on top, so those wash out very quickly.

With screenprint plastisol you can get a thicker deposit of ink to lay onto and also to penetrate into the fabric... but this requires the printer to pay attention to mesh counts and making sure the ink passes through into the fabric as well as that it all cures.

You may want to tell them up front that you are not looking for a thin layer of ink but for a lot of ink to go through and perhaps make sure they print-flash-print the same screen or print it twice, etc... 

You're talking about fighting two variables... and the reason a lot of the waterbased and discharge inks are used to keep a softer feel while still getting the ink all the way through the fabric. (although you would not need black to discharge, but waterbased that can hold up to repeated washes as well as penetrating the fabric..) Also dye-sublimation can work where the inks absorb into the fabric and recolor it. 

Plastisol will be adhered to the surfaces of the fibers and unless you get a thick layer that also mixes in with the weave of the fabric and cures right, it can come apart later and the fibrillation or pilling of the fabric can come through. 

Also if it is a detailed design they may be using a higher mesh count which prevents much ink being deposited, again this is why it is about finding the right compromise between your design details and how much ink you need. 

For example often with a black-ink design that has shading, halftones printing as small dots of ink to create the shades, but let's say there are solid text and shapes as well... the printer may produce two screens -- one a higher mesh for the halftones and details, the other one a lower-mesh count for more ink to go through the solid large areas of text or shapes. 

It does look like even on the unwashed image/print that there is still a very thin layer of ink and you can see some fibers of the shirt coming through already, meaning that it did not get much fabric penetration and not a lot of ink was put down. Hope this information helps to make sense of the various physics at work.

Also, washing and drying in machines or even by hand is always going to remove some of the ink and pull the fabric up through the ink.

Think about it for a moment, there is a grand canyon because water is highly erosive, even solid rocks cannot stand the test of repeated washing.


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

Thank you so much lonewolf, decal and fullspectrum for the shared knowledge. Is it possible to mix plastisol and water based ink to print on a shirt? Would that be a solution too?


----------



## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

Gchild735 said:


> Thank you so much lonewolf, decal and fullspectrum for the shared knowledge. Is it possible to mix plastisol and water based ink to print on a shirt? Would that be a solution too?


No, you cannot mix plastisol ink and water based ink together, however there are many additives for plastisol inks that can give it different characteristics. Some for lower cure temps, some for less viscosity, some special effects additives etc. Water based inks can have additives too.

Here is a list of some types of additives. Although this is one manufacturer's website, all brands of plastisol inks can have the same types of additives.

Additives & Reducers


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Gchild735 said:


> I have attached 2 pictures of the before and after on a white tee using plastisol and one more on a red tee after a wash using discharge.


The way this is worded, sounds like they used discharge and black ink on a red shirt. Is that really true?


----------



## Printavo (Oct 7, 2007)

Exactly what FullSpectrumSeps said. DTG generally speaking isn't as higher of a quality print as plastisol-based printing.


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Discharge black?.....really?...... no one?.......Come play!


----------



## cesarmart34 (Mar 5, 2015)

As far as plastisol goes the problem is they printer is only giving the shirt one pass of ink...what happens is like with all black on light garments it looks really good before the wash nice and opaque and thick than once you was you can see the shirt fibrillation through the faded ink...ask him to stroke the shirt flash it and stroke it one more time that'll fix the problem i guarantee it.


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

Yep the printer used discharge ink on the red tee. Were they not supposed to?


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

That is freakin hilarious. Now I wish I would have made my user name "BLACKDISHARGEINK'' The whole point of the discharge technique is to remove the die as much as possible from a colored fabric, so that it is like printing on a white shirt, so you can print with as little ink as pos. to keep a soft hand and still have vibrant color. By discharging the black, if you get fibrillation, you will now have white fuzzys poking out of the black ink instead of red which as you saw looks 10 times worse. Like Cesar said, if no fibrillation is important to you. Print black-flash-print. I can't believe that shop did that. That's like putting a fire hose in your boat before you start bailing with a tea cup. I would refuse to do such a thing if some one asked me to. I recommend not trusting that shop with your money and trying another. It was very unprofessional to not tell you that it would have the opposite affect of what you were trying to achieve, and if they thought it would help, that's even worse. run far away from that shop


----------



## lvprinting (Sep 23, 2014)

The shirts in those pictures look like they have white fuzz on the design from washing the shirt with other white items.

Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

I see, thanks printor.


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

No problem, don't want to see some one wasting your $$$ I'm surprised there was over 300 views on this thread and no one made Black discharge ink jokes. So I'll start. "Hey. how do you tell if your black discharge ink is fully discharged?''


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

So I emailed the printer and they said that their dryers are set at the right temp and that they do use the print flash print flash method. She said that they rarely send away customers and refered me to two other larger local shops in the area. It's very frustrating that a shop that prints shirts cant seem to figure out why my shirts are fading noticeably after a wash.


----------



## drscotty14 (Mar 23, 2011)

do most printers p/f/p black ink on white shirts??


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

No, that is very rare. I have never seen anyone do it on purpose. It was only suggested to eliminate any fibrillation from happening. Hey! If I print black discharge, flash, and print black discharge again, will my black be brighter?


----------



## StarDesigns (Aug 4, 2013)

Haaaaaa! I'm rolling! Not at the problem the OP is having but discharge black ink?! Hey Printor, you change your profile name to Discharge black ink and I'm changing mine to Discharge White Shirt. Lol

Sorry. [Takes deep breath] Seriously, fibrillation can and does happen and the higher quality white tee you use the worse it is. I guess that's the same for discharge black on red. However, if the discharge is truly water based discharge then that should eliminate any or most fibrillation. My suspicion is that this was plasticharge black which is even worse and at the same time funnier. 


Mitchell - Star Designs/The Factory
www.TheFactoryTN.com


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Finally. I thought I was taking crazy pills and was the only one that thought K Dis. Ink was funny. 560 views before someone else thought that was funny. Now I'm afraid there is 500 printers running around out there doing that. Hey! If I'm discharging white shirts, how do I know when my agent is not working any more?


----------



## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

Gchild735 said:


> It's very frustrating that a shop that prints shirts cant seem to figure out why my shirts are fading noticeably after a wash.


That's because your shirts are technically not fading. All the ink is still there. Unless you want a very heavy handed print (which most don't want) you will get fibrillation since the printer is laying down a thin layer of ink. When the shirt goes through a wash cycle the fibers that were originally laid down during printing will move and expose their unprinted sides. The ink is still on the fibers, but they have moved.
Have you tried getting your design made with t-shirt vinyl? That's one way to make sure you don't get any fibrillation. 
If fibrillation is an issue for you then you need to mention that to the printer otherwise they will continue to print the way that has worked for them and all their happy customers previously.


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

Is selling a t-shirt that fibrillation occurs after one washing acceptable?


----------



## StarDesigns (Aug 4, 2013)

Gchild735 said:


> Is selling a t-shirt that fibrillation occurs after one washing acceptable?


I think you have to inform your client that it is a possibility and that there are ways to prevent it but they cost money. I've found that most people who order white tees are looking for the cheapest possible tee and don't care if fibrillation occurs. However, I have a couple of brands that print a few designs on higher end white tees and it is an issue for them so it's really the customers choice. I just think it's in our best interest to inform the client that it can happen and that it can be avoided if they want to pay. 


-Mitchell 
Star Designs
The Factory


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

What are some of the options to avoid it Star Design?


----------



## LoneWolf2 (Aug 10, 2007)

You could lay down a ton of ink and have a thick/heavy print, but that's about it.


----------



## StarDesigns (Aug 4, 2013)

You can also make a second screen identical to the whole design and lay down a top coat of a clear base. Some people do this first then lay down the color. 


-Mitchell 
Star Designs
The Factory


----------



## StarDesigns (Aug 4, 2013)

Here's a good article in Printwear Magazine on fibrillation and how to prevent it.

http://printwearmag.com/features/how-eliminate-fibrillation


-Mitchell 
Star Designs
The Factory


----------



## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Nice link. The only type of print I do where I'm really bothered by fibrillation is 4color process. I'm gonna try the clear topcoat with the next one.


----------



## Gchild735 (May 25, 2015)

UPDATE: I went to a different printer and the issue is fixed. I can't believe I wasted my previous time and money on a printer that tried to convince me that the fading outcome was the best I would get. Thank you guys for all your information And input.


----------

