# what is the process that doesn't peel? Is that silk screening?



## chayne35 (May 26, 2010)

Holy flippin crud why did it have to be so hard to post something lol? I know nothing about this stuff and don't believe i'M IN THE GENERAL AREA WHERE i NEED TO BE but anyways...All I need to know is the process in which to silkscreen not the crapy stuff that peels off after so many washes but the silk screening that's actually an ink....what is that called? thanks


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## contractprinter (Jan 5, 2006)

*Re: silk screen ink*

plastisol is what most people use. it never peels off when cured properly. there is waterbased, and discharge


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

chayne35 said:


> Holy flippin crud why did it have to be so hard to post something lol? I know nothing about this stuff and don't believe i'M IN THE GENERAL AREA WHERE i NEED TO BE but anyways...All I need to know is the process in which to silkscreen not the crapy stuff that peels off after so many washes but the silk screening that's actually an ink....what is that called? thanks


Yes, that's called silk screening or screen printing.

There are many types of printing processes that can peel when not done correctly (including screen printing).

If done correctly, screen printing should not peel or flake.

You can read more about the different printing processes here:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/general-t-shirt-selling-discussion/t37985.html

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/general-t-shirt-selling-discussion/t48532.html


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## chayne35 (May 26, 2010)

Thanks for the replies but isn't there an actual ink something done that when u feel the shirt it doest feel like rubber its actually inked


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## chayne35 (May 26, 2010)

well what I'm sayimg is ,is there something that doest peel or peel of weather done correctly or not ? an ink?
real actual ink lol thanks


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## OTFINC (Mar 24, 2009)

pretty sure that would be a discharge or water based ink.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

I just has 150 Baseball Jerseys screen printed, Large front logo and Numbers on back. (Thick rubbery White Ink, Blue jerseys)
The front is pretty good, but after 2 weeks all the backs are flaking off. (like a dry powder)
Pretty scarry as this was over $5,000 for the jerseys. Hope it can be fixed somehow.

Would a High quality vinyl be better for numbering jerseys ?


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## jsf (Aug 4, 2009)

chayne35 said:


> well what I'm sayimg is ,is there something that doest peel or peel of weather done correctly or not ? an ink?
> real actual ink lol thanks


Screen printing process with use of waterbase inks or discharge inks. These type of inks penetrates into the fabric and not rubber finish. Guaranteed no peel, no crack 100%.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

jsf said:


> Screen printing process with use of waterbase inks or discharge inks. These type of inks penetrates into the fabric and not rubber finish. Guaranteed no peel, no crack 100%.


White ink on Navy Blue shirts with this method of waterbase might produce a dye migration ?? No ? Blue shirt seen through the waterbased ink..


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## jsf (Aug 4, 2009)

stevegamble said:


> White ink on Navy Blue shirts with this method of waterbase might produce a dye migration ?? No ? Blue shirt seen through the waterbased ink..


Yes, dye migration is a common problem with most inks including plastisols. 

But that is not the issue here. 

As I have suggested, discharge inks will be used for printing on colored shirts since it will penetrate the fabric and replace the fabrics color with the inks dye.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

My Problem is plastisol thick rubber ink (zero dye migration) is very dry and flakey..and falling off the jerseys after a $5,000 payment, for 150 jerseys, and 2 washes. 
I wonder if Vinyl numbering is a superior performing technology to use ?


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## 8th Day (Jan 16, 2009)

chayne35 said:


> Thanks for the replies but isn't there an actual ink something done that when u feel the shirt it doest feel like rubber its actually inked


Dye Sublimation has zero hand.
It is also capable of more vivid colors, better color transitions and finer detail than screen.



stevegamble said:


> My Problem is plastisol thick rubber ink (zero dye migration) is very dry and flakey..and falling off the jerseys after a $5,000 payment, for 150 jerseys, and 2 washes.


Dye sub is also very durable (the ink doesn't sit on top like screenprint does, but becomes part of the garment). It does require a polyester fabric, but performance wicking shirts and most jerseys are going to be made from poly anyway.



stevegamble said:


> I wonder if Vinyl numbering is a superior performing technology to use ?


A good vinyl like Thermoflex, in my opinion, has much better results than the cheap screenprint that most places use for numbering jerseys.


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## mgarick (May 19, 2010)

You may be talking about Sublimation.....when you sublimate on a shirt the colors are in the threads and will NOT peel off...The only drawback....The shirt has to be Polyester....

Mike


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

8th Day said:


> Dye Sublimation has zero hand.
> It is also capable of more vivid colors, better color transitions and finer detail than screen.
> 
> 
> ...


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## 8th Day (Jan 16, 2009)

stevegamble said:


> I do in house dye sublimation.
> I can not give my customer a white logo on a navy blue shirt with dye sublimation, like my customer is asking for.


Sure you can, you just need a larger printer. 



stevegamble said:


> Hence my dealing with a screen printer.
> I gave hime a $5,000 job to do and now the ink is very dry and flaking off.
> I was wondering if I need to put white numbers on blue jerseys, would vynil be better than plastisol ink. ? or Screen printing period ?


Your business may be very similar to ours.
We letter and number jerseys with Thermoflex. It stretches so it won't peel or crack and actually has less hand than the thick screenprint that I see most companies use for sports jersey personalization.



stevegamble said:


> The blue jerseys with white ink look beautiful, better than trying to put Dark sublimated numbers into the poly shirts.
> I also have chromoblast ink for cottons, but not nearly as good as dye sublimation on poly.
> Ricoh GX7000 2 printers, one for poly and one for cotton. Graphtec cutter, and a pneumatic (air) auto swing press, on stand16x20 Geo.knight That's my set up so far. I am new.


Sounds like you're already set up perfectly for vinyl decoration.
Get a few rolls of shirt vinyl (Thermoflex Plus works great for most things, Thermoflex XTRA is for fabrics with a lower melting temperature like nylon) and you will most likely never want to sub this kind of work out to a screenprinter again.
You can also sublimate to cut and heat applied flocking.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

8th Day said:


> Sure you can, you just need a larger printer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks..where can I get Thermoflex ?
I have tried Stahls Canada but I can't find it.


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## 8th Day (Jan 16, 2009)

stevegamble said:


> Hey, thanks..where can I get Thermoflex ?
> I have tried Stahls Canada but I can't find it.


Not sure who distributes it in Canada, Wensco Sign Supply carries it here in Michigan. I also know that Digital Art Solutions stocks Thermoflex.

If you contact Specialty Materials, they should be able to direct you to a local distributor:
Specialty Materials - Largest Distributor of Thermal Films in North America


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## Common Seed (Apr 19, 2010)

Sounds like those Jerseys didn't get a full cure. They shouldn't start flacking that quick.

In my experience eventually all ink with fade, but each ink fades differently, plastisol crack and peels (but shouldn't for quite a while), water-based fades gradually and gracefully, water-based with discharge barely fades at all. 

As you may be able to tell I am biased toward discharge and water-based systems. But they have limited application and most do not work very well on nylon jerseys. Although one could try nlyopaque by Pavonine which is a water-based opaque ink for printing on nylons. But I haven't tested that yet.


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