# DTG Printer Cost Barrier Poll



## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

For those of you that have yet to buy a DTG, Or add a second printer to your business, because of the price barrier, what price range would entice you to take the plunge?

This is a private poll. No one, including me, will be able to see what choice you selected.

Please do not read anything into the pricing, I know of no printers coming out under $3000 or $5000, or even $10,000 for that matter. I am just curious, as to what price the general public, and business owners have in their mind or budgets.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Although cost is a barrier, I'm not sure if it's the main barrier. But if there was a DTG printer that printed white ink and was reliable as my $200 Zebra 2844 Thermal Printer (like for UPS labels), and was priced around $5,000 I'd definitely look at them closer


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I would buy like 10 of them! LOL!


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Not afraid to say I would look at reliable and dependable DTG without white ink for less that 9k.


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## Attitudes (Oct 3, 2007)

Hmmmm.....

That's a tough one for me, even though I have the Flexi L.
It’s not big enough for the average customer.
I am getting requests for all over, 3x-4x prints.
I get requests for top to bottom mini dresses and ladies nightshirts.
To stay competitive with screen print with the “designer” customers who are willing to pay the price for the 1’s and 2’s, 
Everyone wants to be the next Ed Hardy or Affliction out here.
I really need the “base” machine to be as long as the Flexi L, and as wide as a 5x from sleeve to sleeve. Don’t forget we Americans are the largest.

Anything else I believe will soon be considered a toy/hobby market, I’m afraid.  

Don


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I couldn't disagree more. As vinyl cutter got smaller that didn't put sign shops out of business. I think you could also draw similar conclusions from the embroidery market.

I do agree that it would be nice to have more affordable machines, and wider format for oversize designs, and multiple shirt printing.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Ok.. price is not really the barrier for me either..
Its more the reliablity.. support..and quality of the print..
I would like one that printed white and i voted for under 9,000.. But I would have to say.. as the machines as a whole are rite now.. I dont think i would spend that on it.

My concern with dtgs.. and white ink.. is the time involved. both in the maintenance and the pre treatment, and what i see so far as Iffy quality on the prints.. and washablity..


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## Attitudes (Oct 3, 2007)

zilla,


> I couldn't disagree more


Really? All i get is requests for oversize or side prints.
But I suppose there might be a bit of a fad thing going on.

Don


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I wasn't disagreeing with the oversized print comment. I was disagreeing with the toys/Hobby comment.


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## Attitudes (Oct 3, 2007)

oops, my mistake...... 

Don


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

As a vendor of these machines I would love to have a sub $5K machine to take to the larger consumers of direct to garment/screen prints. Companies like beer and soda distributors, amusement parks, even large manufacturers that spend more than $10K a year on imprinted apparel would be a good place to start selling these machines. I've been down this road before in the sign industry, all but 2 of the Coca-Cola distributors in Florida have in-house sign making systems thanks to this approach - and I did take some heat from the sign companies who used to provide them with signage. Direct to garment varies from screen printing in one major way - the average computer literate individual with moderate artistic ability can operate it, no other major skills involved. Add to this the limited space needed and you can see why this product may ultimately see it's full potential at the consumer level as opposed to the producer level. I think that the price barrier is the largest stumbling block to this already happening. As the price of the equipment decreases, the market increases, the margins on the output also decrease - if you question this look at the price of digital output sold in the sign industry - it now sells for about 1/3 of what it sold for about 6-7 years ago.

JMHO


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## Tomyg (Jul 4, 2008)

I invested in a DTG (wish I had my money back) and am disturbed that the ink cartridges are still controlled by the manufacturer and prices are fixed. I am looking for someone or way to refill the cartridges. These sell for $200 a pop and don't really produce the quantity of shirts that they advertise. They also are like the fuel gage on your car, they take a long time to get the the half way point and then drop like crazy. This prevents you from really planning your job since you are never really sure what is in the cartridge. Delivery time on the cartridges are quick but the killer is cash flow. When the cartridges are allowed to be refilled, I think this market will open up. Anyone have any suggestions on which ink should be put in, I can refill them.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi Tom,

Currently there are only 2 manufacturers who use closed systems for their ink delivery, the rest of the marketplace uses CISS (bulk ink systems) that are refillable by simply pouring more ink into them. As for the refiallability of cartridges, the ink set needs to be compatible with your current ink set (matching viscosity etc) so you will need to do some research on that. Also, it is my understanding that the cartridges will have a finite number of times that they can be refilled before they will no longer hold pressure. I would suggest that you consider saving your old cartridges as this technology may be coming to refill these.

Hope this helps!


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Don.. I dont think that selling machines to companies like Cocacola for example.. would NOT really be something that hurts the average dtg user.. .. I think that it may hurt some of the screen printers that produce the shirts for them now.. but a vast majority of dtq users out there.. sell to small companies.. or make their own designs.. ..
Just like in the sign industry.. (I have a very well establish sign shop) The selling of the large format printers.. to big companies like cocacola or the beer companies . .. may have hurt a few of the real large sign companies.. Its really not what made the price drop on the digital prints to the consumers..
It is the small guys buying the machines.. and lowballing.. Not understanding the real cost of producing the signage.. and not understanding how to price things correctly..
They will figure ooo this only cost me 50 cents a sq foot to make.. I can sell for 1.99 a sq foot and make loads.. 
Many times they end up working themselfs to death.. and not even making min. wage. after all the cost are figured in.. or losing thier shirts and having to sell their machines cheap just to pay rent.
Same thing will happen with the dtg's as the price goes down..
But just because someone else lowers their price to 1.99 a sq foot.. or say a shirt to a way to low price.. does that mean Im gonna.. NOPE,
I continue to sell quality at the price I feel its worth..and I get the price i ask for..
We have had 2 sign shops in my area go out of business in the last few months.. Both were playing the low balling game.. .. and You know what.. Ive been having our busiest year yet.
I double last years sales.
So i think what im tryin to say.. is that its not the big companies getting the machines.. weather it be dtgs or LFP that will hurt the price we all ask.. but the small guys that have been sold machines.. being told this is the way to make their fortune..without having to work for anyone else. And not really knowing how to price things or figure out their real cost to produce the items.

soorry for going off topic.. but I wanted to address this issue.. as it is a issue that effect all of us.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Printzilla said:


> I would buy like 10 of them! LOL!


 Since we're dreaming here.... 10 machines, networked


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Don-SWF East said:


> Currently there are only 2 manufacturers who use closed systems for their ink delivery...


Don, 

The number of closed cartridge systems have increased to include Brother, Mimaki, Sawgrass, Anajet and M&R. 

Tommy, 

Don is absolutely right that the viscosity and surface tension of the ink has to be the same or you will have problems with the ink properly coming out of the print head (i.e. see the use of R&H inks in the Brother printer a year or so ago). You will also need new profiles put into your printing software if you switch to a different inkset unless the ink was simply private labeled and is the same ink.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Mystysue,

I agree with you wholeheartedly, the lower the price of the equipment gets, the more folks will jump on board - meaning more folks willing to drop their drawers to get a sale, sacrificing their time and quality in exchange for the sale. I think I mentioned that lower priced machines would equate to lower margins on output. 
I do think that we will see more "fringe" buyers of this equipment if the prices drop too much on the equipment (companies like I mentioned) plus companies like Kinkos, Office Depot and the like - add to it companies that sell photographic output like Ritz and others. I see as an ultimate goal, kiosk type machines where you load your design (or photo) via a thumb drive, size position and print. Similar to the digital photoprinter stations at Target and Walmart.


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## stix (Feb 3, 2008)

Someone will come out with a low cost machine that will cater to sign shops, embriodiers and trophy folks. This will eliminate the need to sub out their screenprinting. The manufactuers will still make money on the special consumables needed.. I see it coming.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

stix;317840 The manufactuers will still make money on the special consumables needed.. I see it coming.[/quote said:


> We have already seen non equipment manufacturers enter the consumables side of DTG, and there are more on the way.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

stix said:


> Someone will come out with a low cost machine that will cater to sign shops, embriodiers and trophy folks. This will eliminate the need to sub out their screenprinting. The manufactuers will still make money on the special consumables needed.. I see it coming.


 It's happening right now. Look at Melco and M&R.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I think we will see the price of finished products lower considerably in the next few months. However, I do not think this will come mainly from users of single low price machines. Where it will come from, is power users who will own 10- 50 machines, and run their DTG shop like a large multihead embroidery shop. We will see this not only here in the states, but also from China.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> The number of closed cartridge systems have increased to include Brother, Mimaki, Sawgrass, Anajet and M&R.


Sorry, I didn't realize that the other 3 had done so. I know the pricing structure of the Brother and Ana inks, are the Mimaki, M&R and Sawgrass priced similarly? I can't imagine that the benefits of a closed system would outweigh the added costs of the closed system. We see very little ink delivery issues with our machines, especially the colors. Based on the price difference I have seen on most closed systems, the savings per liter would come close to paying for a new printhead - with each liter!


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I can't guarantee the prices are still accurate, but here is what I think I can remember (i.e. anyone can call the manfucaturers to get the pricing)
- Sawgrass - $110 for 110 ML cartridge (CMYK Only)
- Anajet - $64 for CMYK and $74 (or so) for White cartridges (110 ML)
- M&R - $123 for CMYK and $137 for White cartridges (220 ML)
- Mimaki - can't remember...

The amount of benefit will differ depending on the user's business model, how much they value their time, how often they travel with the printer,.... It would be different for each company in my opinion.


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