# Using Clear Vinyl with Dye Sub not in the usual way



## mmcb (Sep 6, 2013)

I know this question has come up a number of times, and I have looked through all the threads I can find. However, those questions are all "can I use transfer vinyl OVER a dye sub image".

My requirements are a little different.....
I normally work with HTV (inkjet and plain vinyl), and have limited understanding about dye sub. I had an idea for some new (very niche) products made from fabric (think small diorama flags/banners/pennants/etc).

Due to their small size and intricate detailing, I think dye sub would probably be the better method to produce these. Sublimating an image onto a pre-cut blank has to be easier than trying to kiss cut around small detail lines!!

So here is my problem.....
I can get 100% polyester easily enough, but how do I go about stiffening/stabalizing it so that I can cut it on my vinyl cutter?? Can I apply a clear transfer to one side of the fabric, cut it out, then sublimate the image to the other (untreated) side? Would there be any issues with dye migration? Would the adhesive cause problems with the sublimation process?

My initial thoughts are that there shouldn't be any problems, but from reading other threads where vinyl is placed over the top there could be.

My workflow would be as follows:-
1) Apply clear vinyl to raw 100% polyester
2) Cold peel backing paper
3) Cut out the shapes using vinyl cutter
4) Sublimate image to opposite side of fabric (side that does not have the vinyl on it)

My reasoning behind using clear vinyl is because I think the sublimated image will show through to the other side, atleast enough not to have to worry about trying to sub both sides of the fabric.

Are there potential problems? Is there a better way to produce these?

Sorry for the long-winded post.

Cheers,
Mark


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

Not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish but there is coated poly meaning the back side is coated and the fabric stiff. We use this for several of our products. The only catch is you need a Teflon sheet as if not the coated side will stick to you press.


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

How about using a positioning spray something like 3M re-mount. spray a celluloid sheet or use the back of a vinyl carrier. 3M doesn't stay on fabric but it will really stick it down for cutting.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mmcb said:


> I know this question has come up a number of times, and I have looked through all the threads I can find. However, those questions are all "can I use transfer vinyl OVER a dye sub image".
> 
> My requirements are a little different.....
> I normally work with HTV (inkjet and plain vinyl), and have limited understanding about dye sub. I had an idea for some new (very niche) products made from fabric (think small diorama flags/banners/pennants/etc).
> ...


Test sublimating the other side of the fabric to make sure it sublimates through on the front side. Fabric is hard to cut with vinyl cutter. I don't know if pressing clear vinyl then cutting it will make it easier to cut. Have you tried cutting with clear vinyl over the fabric already? Sublimation actually is a form of dye migration. So it should not be an issue. Clear HTV like Siser Ecosolvent ink Clear HTV for light fabric adhesive is not affected by ink that is printed on it. But the sublimation temperature might cook the adhesive or the vinyl material. All you can do is try.

http://www.siser.com/digital-printing/crystal/


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## mmcb (Sep 6, 2013)

I know I can cut fabric on my vinyl cutter with a clear transfer (JPSS) applied to it. I've already tested that part of the process with great success.

I can't test the dye sub side of the process because I don't have a dye sub printer yet. I'll only be getting one IF I know this process would actually work.

The main issue I need to make sure of is whether the dye will bleed/migrate through the clear vinyl after a period of time. I wouldn't be reactivating the dye as I'd be looking at pressing the vinyl first, but I would be reactivating the adhesive I guess.

I've thought about the coated polyester, but I need the image to show through from one side to the other (not transfer or bleed through though!).


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

From the looks of the replies, it looks like a fun R&D project to me.

Many a great $ niche has been discovered by the thoughts of ..."Hmmm"

Let us know how it works out.

One thing is certain, you will have to find a balance by which both HTV and Dye Sub can play in the sand box together. They each have a different temp by which they like to ideally perform with and/ or tolerate.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mmcb said:


> I know I can cut fabric on my vinyl cutter with a clear transfer (JPSS) applied to it. I've already tested that part of the process with great success.
> 
> I can't test the dye sub side of the process because I don't have a dye sub printer yet. I'll only be getting one IF I know this process would actually work.
> 
> ...


You know Forever inkjet Sublimation Subli Dark 201 transfer is a type that the image bleed through the transfer. The image is printed on the adhesive side and the transfer is pressed then image shows up on the other side.

https://gjs.co/supplies/p2885/forever-subli-dark-301-dye-sublimation-paper-for-textiles

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...b32996398193324ad21d039844608cca&action=click

So that has been done but in your case you want it to sublimate through on the other side of the fabric. So test if it will sublimate through the fabric first to see if it will work before doing it with the fabric pressed with clear transfer. If that works then test it on the fabric with clear overlay make sure the vinyl can handle the sublimation temp.

Since you don't have the sublimation printer yet you can get sublimation printed transfer sample from vendor like coastal business.

Here is a vendor that sells custom sublimation printed transfer for $1.99. You can request sample also.

Sublimation Transfers


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## mmcb (Sep 6, 2013)

@ Jae
That sounds like my life story, fun R&D projects!
Play time it is I think. Thanks for the help

@Luis
Thanks for the info, I'll look into that. If the fabric is thin (sheer??) enough, won't the sublimation penetrate through anyway since you're dyeing the actual fibres. Or does only a portion of the fibre take up the dye?

Outdoor banners are thin enough that you see the printing in reverse, wouldn't this be the same thing? This is why I though it would work to apply the clear vinyl on one sub of the fabric, but dye sub the reverse side. Maybe I'm wrong??


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mmcb said:


> @ Jae
> That sounds like my life story, fun R&D projects!
> Play time it is I think. Thanks for the help
> 
> ...


Yes it will sublimate through the fabric as long as it is high content polyester but I had not tried what you are trying achieved. I only did sublimation on true side of the shirt or pendant. You have to experiment. Actually the ink when heated turns to gas then it bonds on the polyester molecule. When cold down it returns back to solid. Not sure if enough of the gas will penetrate through. Maybe it is enough because Forever is able to do it with their transfer.

The shirt I did was a hybrid. It had polyester on top of cotton. So it did not penetrate. The pendant was thin but I cannot remember if the backside was as vivid and defined as the frontside.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

The process I used on the image below is different than what you are trying to do but I thought I would show it to you and mention what I found.

The image was transferred on black shirt with Imageclip that was printed with sublimation ink on B sheet of Imageclip Laser dark. It was married to the A sheet printed with white toner to weed out unwanted polymer. The a sheet that had the sublimated opaque was pressed on 100% cotton black shirt.

I got sample of Colorprint Soft from SiserNA transfer. It is the new version of Crystal Ecosolvent inkjet light transfer. It is translucent transfer for light. I hand trimmed it that is oversized of the image on the shirt. I did that to see how translucent it is. I pressed and peel it on the image on the shirt. What I noticed is the unprinted area covered by the overlapping. The color did sublimate through just fine. Even faint trace of the image was on the vinyl backing/carrier.

Click the image below to enlarge.

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/240985d1505418534-bizzare-twist-imageclip-laser-dark-colorprint-soft.jpg[/media]


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## mmcb (Sep 6, 2013)

Thanks Luis. That image looks nice and crisp.

I think I get the gist of what you did, but will read over it a few more times to get it to sink in.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mmcb said:


> Thanks Luis. That image looks nice and crisp.
> 
> I think I get the gist of what you did, but will read over it a few more times to get it to sink in.


The photo below was before the clear overlay was pressed over it. Ignore the texts. I added those later in Photoshop after I scanned the shirt. Click to enlarge.

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/221265d1484643184-how-print-oki-9650-image-8.jpg[/media]

I was surprised the sublimation ink was reactivated at 312F for 15 seconds. In the overlaid photo below. It became even more vivid, crisper and deeper. Sublimation ink sublimates at 375F-400F for 30 to 60 seconds.

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/240985d1505418534-bizzare-twist-imageclip-laser-dark-colorprint-soft.jpg[/media]


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