# Are there transfers for dark materials that wash well?



## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi. I have recently been looking at using heat pressed transfers. The problems start when the items are washed. Although I use sublimation and heat pressed vinyl with no problems, the transfers are a different story.*


*With the sublimation and vinyl I can literally just throw them into the wash cycle, without turning inside out and without problems. They still look as good when they come out. With the transfers however, the ink peels off in very small flaking pieces. This is a far worse problem with dark fabric transfers than it is with light fabric transfers.*


*My question is this: Is there a heat transfer in existence, that will withstand normal wash cycles, without turning garments inside out, or not using fabric conditioners etc? i.e. a transfer for the REAL world. One I can sell to customers without it getting returned a few washes later?*


*Although I press at correct temperatures using a digitally controlled press, for the correct times, I am looking for the most likely culprit to be Canon printer I am trying these out with. I am fairly certain it uses dye, rather than pigment ink? Know many transfer papers state pigment ink, but many are also suitable for dye and pigment inks too. *

*Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  *


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

If by transfer you mean "inkjet transfer made from my home printer", in my opinion, no.

If by transfer you mean "a heat transfer that I can apply myself", I would say yes: plastisol transfers.

Although you don't print them yourself (they don't cost much to outsource), they will give you quality prints on any t-shirt color.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Thanks for that Rodney. Unfortunately plastisol transfers don't appear to be that common here in the UK. I prefer to keep everything 'in house', so I am not dependant on others delivery dates (or promises of).*


*Would have thought that inkjet technology would have made inroads into the transfer market by now.*


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

I just started using Alpha for Darks and it washes awesome... after two washes to far you can't even tell it was washed.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Seems to me that someone MUST be getting decent results from inkjet transfers, or there would be no market for them else. Even a home user would be a bit upset it it screwed up a decent tee shirt for them?*


*I simply want to be able to offer full colour images on shirts other than white. If sublimation allowed me to print on darks (or cotton), I'd be a very happy guy. Sadly it don't, so I'm still looking at the transfers.*


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

DREAMGLASS said:


> *Seems to me that someone MUST be getting decent results from inkjet transfers, or there would be no market for them else. Even a home user would be a bit upset it it screwed up a decent tee shirt for them?*
> 
> 
> *I simply want to be able to offer full colour images on shirts other than white. If sublimation allowed me to print on darks (or cotton), I'd be a very happy guy. Sadly it don't, so I'm still looking at the transfers.*


Look up one post, I posted what works great for me... If you search my post there are pics on here too...


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Thanks for that. Have now located your pics of the Alpha Dark. Certainly looks half decent after a couple of washes. *

*I've ordered a couple more small packs of dark tranfer paper from different UK suppliers, to see if I can crack the printing on dark fabrics issue. Would certainly open up a bigger market for me. I currently use vinyl on darks, but it's never going to beat full colour imagery for visual impact.*


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## skeelc (Jun 24, 2008)

DREAMGLASS said:


> *Seems to me that someone MUST be getting decent results from inkjet transfers, or there would be no market for them else. Even a home user would be a bit upset it it screwed up a decent tee shirt for them?*
> 
> 
> *I simply want to be able to offer full colour images on shirts other than white. If sublimation allowed me to print on darks (or cotton), I'd be a very happy guy. Sadly it don't, so I'm still looking at the transfers.*


There is. It comes from FOREVER in Germany. It's called Subli-Dark.
Forever Digital Transfer Applications Technology

Now, I have to warn: it is an opaque material, but may be worth a look.

As for durable transfers, your best bet is laser. From what I have evaluated, FOREVER papers have the best washability. If you want something to be on par with or rival sublimation, it's not out there.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> *Seems to me that someone MUST be getting decent results from inkjet transfers, or there would be no market for them else. Even a home user would be a bit upset it it screwed up a decent tee shirt for them?*


People are selling t-shirts with inkjet transfers, but you have to make sure your customer has the right expectations. 

They just aren't the same quality that some customers would expect.

If you have a customer that wants a picture of their cat or grandkid on a t-shirt, it can work great.

If you have a more discerning customer that wants 30 t-shirts with their logo on it or their fancy artwork design on it, it may not go over as well.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

This thread may help some: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t43258.html


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Thanks for the extra info. I only ever sell direct to the customer, so good quality is important to me.*

*Laser is not an option for me, as I prefer to use non branded sublimation inks and inkjet inks. Something about not funding someone else's lifestyle I guess. *

*Am looking at subli-dark type materials as well, to compare quality with inkjet transfers.*

*Some of the washing instructions for transfers are just plain silly. Typically stating to turn inside out before washing, only washing in warm water, no tumble drying etc. Doubt if that would actually fit most folks lifestyles though. When all's said and done, most folks actually WEAR their tees. They spill beer, sauce and other things on them too. They get dirty and they get washed.*


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*** EUREKA ** Firstly thanks to all the folks that have helped me with this post.*

*I was convinced there MUST be a transfer for dark fabrics, that would hold up to washing. I looked at the folks who sell items with transfers on EBay. Some had bad feedback for flaking and peeling images, but others had very good, positive feedback record. I simply looked under their 'feedback as a buyer' and found out where they were buying their transfers from. I bought some unbranded transfers from an EBay powerseller and guess what? They survived a full one hour plus, 40 degree centigrade wash cycle with other garments, NOT turned inside out either!! This was followed by a fifty minute cycle in a hot tumble dryer. *

*Aftermath of all that is no cracks, no flaking, no fading. Same cannot be said of the other makes of transfer samples that I also affixed to the same garment though. I used my Canon printer with dye based ink and increased my press temperature from 180 degrees centigrade to 200 degrees.*

*I had wrongly assumed that my initial problems were perhaps down to using a dye based ink. Seems that a change of transfer paper (albeit unbranded) and perhaps an incease in press temperature, has for me at least, resolved this problem. Whilst I don't feel as comfortable with using transfers, as I do with vinyl and sublimation, at least I can now offer images onto dark fabrics too.  *


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

DREAMGLASS said:


> *** EUREKA ** Firstly thanks to all the folks that have helped me with this post.*
> 
> *I was convinced there MUST be a transfer for dark fabrics, that would hold up to washing. I looked at the folks who sell items with transfers on EBay. Some had bad feedback for flaking and peeling images, but others had very good, positive feedback record. I simply looked under their 'feedback as a buyer' and found out where they were buying their transfers from. I bought some unbranded transfers from an EBay powerseller and guess what? They survived a full one hour plus, 40 degree centigrade wash cycle with other garments, NOT turned inside out either!! This was followed by a fifty minute cycle in a hot tumble dryer. *
> 
> ...


Maybe you can share here which paper you found on ebay that gives you such great results.

You could also upload some photos so people can see how it turns out  http://www.t-shirtforums.com/forum-information/t11206.html


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi Rodney. Going to give it a couple of more test washes first, to see what looks like after three good trips through the wash system. I am using ordinary soap powder and using fabric conditioner. Basically everything you're not supposed to do with transfers.*

*The paper itself is unbranded, but I do know from the seller, that it is of European manufacture.*


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Pls strongly consider increasing that wash count to at least a dozen trips thru the wash. If an average customer wears a shirt one time a week, you'll be looking at around 3 months of wear with 12 washes. 

If you only test for 3 washes, that would only be 3 wears by the customer. If on the 4th wash cracking shows up, and you don't know about it bc you stopped at 3 washes, a customer may be back before one month's time, unhappy they only wore the shirt 3 times and it failed. 

Testing for 12 washes should get you safely passed a certain time frame, like the initial first few weeks of ownership. 

Before this bad batch of Ironall Dark showed up, I was using Ironall Dark. It has lasted many many washes and there are no cracks on my shirts, and the color retention is great. I also haven't had any complaints whatsoever from past customers. As Rodney says, when your customer knows what they are buying, they can be VERY happy with the results. 

But again, I stress, up the number of those wash tests to higher than 3, IMHO - 3 just isn't enough to put your name on and send it out the door with confidence. Best regards, Kelly


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Pls strongly consider increasing that wash count to at least a dozen trips thru the wash. If an average customer wears a shirt one time a week, you'll be looking at around 3 months of wear with 12 washes.
> 
> If you only test for 3 washes, that would only be 3 wears by the customer. If on the 4th wash cracking shows up, and you don't know about it bc you stopped at 3 washes, a customer may be back before one month's time, unhappy they only wore the shirt 3 times and it failed.
> 
> ...


12 washes would last me about two years... lol 

I guess some people only have 5 shirts and wear them every day though


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi Kelly. Thank you for your input. I fully take on board what you say about testing, before you put product out of the door. Do intend to give it more washes than that before I start putting it on products for sale.*

*I suppose it's because I work from home, but you have made me feel rather guilty, as I've had the same tee shirt on ALL week now. I have about twenty tees hanging up in my wardrobe (none of which are my designs) and how many boxes of stock have I got??*


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

LOL, Will! 

Okay, I hear you...

I had a chuckle when I read your post, but I also have a Q: Is there anything you are drawn to about this shirt you've been wearing all week, like comfort, or fit, or was it simply handy at the time you picked it? Just wondering bc that thought process is part of my marketing plan.

I always like to keep this in mind when it comes to durablity in the wash: if you make a shirt for your customer, and it's one that they LOVE, they may reach for it again and again, and pass by other shirts they own to put 'yours' on. 

That's how the shirt you make could end up getting worn alot more than the others they own.... and to me, a shirt that is a fav, that gets picked again and again even tho they have others, is the ultimate goal, so washability is extremely important. I am hoping a customer will realize they keep coming back to "my" shirt in the drawer, and wearing it over and over, and then when they want or need another "new" shirt, they will return to me again. 

So, besides catchy design, and good feeling material on them, 
lasting wash results will bring them back <--- that is the hope. 

Glad to hear you'll be washing again and again before going to market, I'm interested in the results as well. I am true "wash test junkie", so you post them, I'll be checking them out.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi Kelly. Well actually I tend to wear black tees virtually all the time. Many of these are Alchemy Gothic brand, that have some fabulous imagery on them. Alchemy use Fruit of the Loom and Gildan shirts, so they wear well and are comfortable. Previous girlfriend used to buy them for me.*

*This week however, I reached into the wardrobe and pulled out a grey shirt. Plain and simple, no graphics, zilch!! *

*I don't understand the psychology behind why people are drawn to a particular design in a shirt. I've done designs I thought would do well, that bombed and produced what I considered crud, that I've sold out of!!!   *


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi. Have attached a picture (hopefully), showing the same image on the same garment using two different types of transfer paper. This is taken after two trips through a 40 degree centigrade wash cycle, followed by fifty minutes in the tumble dryer.*

*It isn't the best of pictures, but as you can see, there is a significant difference between the two papers. The bottom one has faded significantly, cracked and flaked. The top one is still surviving. It just goes to show that manufacturers CAN produce better quality papers. Question is - why aren't they ALL improving their product? Incidentally, both these papers are unbranded items bought off EBay.*

*Will give them more washes to see if the top one still survives the ordeal.  *


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## Progeny (Jul 28, 2007)

I use Xpres papers and the dark one i use holds up pretty well with Epson durabrire ink. The test one i did on my sons t-shirt has been washed countless times and although the transfer is now cracked, it has not flaked off or faded. If you pull the t-shirt you can see the cracking but when released it goes back. I did stretch the transfer immediately after pressing as i read this helps.

Will you willhave to find out the brands of the ones you are using from Ebay

Lee


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## chonkymonky (Apr 1, 2007)

hey will..dont leave us hanging here. im really anxious to see what the results are of your washability test. and maybe you can tell us what vendor on ebay you got your transfers from. the ones you say hold up really well. that would be greatly appreciated. thanks

Miguel


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi. Have had a couple of people enquire about the results of the long term wash tests. I have attached the pictures to show the results after eight wash tests.*

*These have been washed on a full 40 degree centigrade wash cycle. Not turned inside out. Fabric conditioner and strong wash powder used then tumbled dried for fifty minutes. Both transfers were printed at the same time on a Canon printer, with compatible cartridges using dye based ink. The two transfer papers were bought off two different EBay powersellers.*

*You can see from the picture, that the top transfer survived better than the bottom one. Although the top transfer has started to crack in places, nothing has flaked off and the colours are just as vivid as when it was printed. It clearly shows that dye based inks work too.*


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the photos, Will. The paper is a no for me, and I do appreciate the photos.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*It's a no for me too Kelly. It's ok for tote bags and hats, but certainly not for tees.*

*Know some brands have been suggested on these forums, but they don't seem to be easily available outside of the USA. Others have commented on this in posts too.*


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, I know, you are across the pond. Shipping and duties change the cost effectiveness of using papers from the US. 

I always wish there was an easier way for forum members overseas to get these products. When I hear of how this member or that one wishes they could use the JPSS paper, but couldn't because of the shipping rate, I looked into the shipping costs suppliers are quoting. I discovered some suppliers are not overcharging with shipping fees of approximately $50-$60. Without discounts, those are the listed rates with shippers. I understand where you are coming from. 

Maybe one day suppliers will realize they need distributors in the UK and elsewhere. There is untapped business available.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Girlzndollz said:


> Yes, I know, you are across the pond. Shipping and duties change the cost effectiveness of using papers from the US.
> 
> I always wish there was an easier way for forum members overseas to get these products. When I hear of how this member or that one wishes they could use the JPSS paper, but couldn't because of the shipping rate, I looked into the shipping costs suppliers are quoting. I discovered some suppliers are not overcharging with shipping fees of approximately $50-$60. Without discounts, those are the listed rates with shippers. I understand where you are coming from.
> 
> Maybe one day suppliers will realize they need distributors in the UK and elsewhere. There is untapped business available.


It seems like you could put about 100-200 sheets in a USPS Global Priority Flat rate mailer and ship it to most places in the world for under $15. That wouldn't add too much to the cost of the paper.

I think a lot of online sellers in the US for these types of materials don't really explore the other options available.

Yes, you miss out on the super tracking of UPS/Fedex/DHL, but most of the time, you never need it.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Problem with that Rodney, is that the UK changed it's laws on imports, in July last year. We now have to pay sales tax and import duties on most samples too. **Very few people would want to commit to buying 200 sheets of transfer paper without having a sample pack to try out first. *

*What doesn't help the situation, having read through the posts on here, is that some suppliers refer to the same paper (and other products) by a different brand name. Surprisingly enough, I have found many sellers in the USA do not even offer any sort of international service. By doing that they miss out on a lot of sales.*


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## Progeny (Jul 28, 2007)

Will have you tried the xpres papers, call and ask for the sample pack.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Since you use sublimation ink I suggest you try Airwaves Inc. Fabric Opaque. It is a two step process system made of high density 100% polyester fabric. It can be sublimated and has soft hand. Not like plastic feel. Will not crack or fade but frays a little on the edges but not objectionable. I have a shirt pressed with laser transfer on the opaque that has been washed 10 times and still looked as good as the time it was pressed. No crack and no fading.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Thanks for the info Luis. Will have a look for that item on the net. Not sure that the fraying sounds too good an idea for seling to customers though.*


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

DREAMGLASS said:


> *Thanks for the info Luis. Will have a look for that item on the net. Not sure that the fraying sounds too good an idea for seling to customers though.*


I guess the best way to find out is to get sample and wash it several times under harsh conditions. See if that becomes bad enough to your satisfaction that you feel the paying customer will object to it.

BTW mrdavid was doing wash test for me of the two shirts I did on dark shirts. I am not sure if hes is still doing the test. Try sending him a PM and mention if he noticed any fraying around the edges.

Here is the link to test wash:

Airwaves Fabric opaque - T-Shirt Forums


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

*Hi Luis. Know this thread has attracted a lot of interest, so let me see if I have understood this right.*

*The aiwaves fabric opaque is a two part laser transfer paper. You can use sublimation ink to print direct onto the fabric part, this fabric part is then pressed onto the shirt?*

*Know MrDavid's post got very confusing for folks, as he was using four different types altogether, but how is the freezer paper mentioned is used how, or doesn't it apply to the sublimation method?*

*As a lot of folks using ordinary inkjet inks will be reading this, how did the inkjet compare to the sublimation?*


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## ambitious (Oct 29, 2007)

DREAMGLASS said:


> *Hi Luis. Know this thread has attracted a lot of interest, so let me see if I have understood this right.*
> 
> *The aiwaves fabric opaque is a two part laser transfer paper. You can use sublimation ink to print direct onto the fabric part, this fabric part is then pressed onto the shirt?*
> 
> ...


i would love to see the comparables of inkjet vs sublimation..keep us informed please.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

DREAMGLASS said:


> *Know MrDavid's post got very confusing for folks, as he was using four different types altogether, but how is the freezer paper mentioned is used how, or doesn't it apply to the sublimation method?*


The freezer paper is applied after the opaque has been sublimated.

The purpose of the freezer paper is to keep the fabric opaque stable when peeling its backing paper off and to keep the opaque from curling to itself. Since the material is made of fabric it is very limp when the backing is off. Also the adhesive on the opaque is pressure sensitive and when it curls to itself the transfer is ruined. The freezer paper will also prevent the fabric from distorting when peeling the backing off the fabric.

The freezer paper does not have polymer on it. It will temporarily bond to the fabric. The beauty of using the freezer paper is the finished product is very soft compared to laser or inkjet transfer pressed on the opaque. Well JPSS may be have better hand than laser transfer.

I have sent Mrdavid a written instruction for sublimation. Somehow he misunderstood it or I was not clear because he used a laser transfer paper over the sublimation ink which was not necessary.

Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you a copy of the instruction.



DREAMGLASS said:


> *As a lot of folks using ordinary inkjet inks will be reading this, how did the inkjet compare to the sublimation?*


I don't have inkjet sublimation ink so I can't compare it with pigment ink. Mrdavid did a sublimation print on it but like I said he pressed a blank laser transfer paper on it which would defeat the purpose and also makes the hand heavier. I do have sublimation thermal wax transfer ink ribbon that I used. The image did not turn out very well because I ran out of release paper. I used ordinary bond paper. Thermal wax printer requires very fine and smooth surface. It did sublimate the image. So I can guarantee you that sublimation will work. One good thing with the sublimation is the hand is very soft. It felt like it is part of the tshirt since there is no polymer on it. That is what I was trying to tell Mrdavid when I sent him the samples.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Thank you for explaining the freezer paper with such detail, Luis, You Rock! I had always wondered about that. The red font is freaking my eyes out..lol.. but it was worth the read!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> Thank you for explaining the freezer paper with such detail, Luis, You Rock! I had always wondered about that. The red font is freaking my eyes out..lol.. but it was worth the read!


Sorry about the red text. I was wearing my transition shades when I was writing it. No wonder it was not bothering me.

BTW when I said the freezer paper does not have polymer was wrong. It does have some sort of coating on it. It does not transfer to the fabric opaque though. That is how it temporarily hold the on to the fabric opaque. That is what I was trying to say.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

LOL, Luis, you just crack me up , and thanks for the extra info on the freezer paper.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> LOL, Luis, you just crack me up , and thanks for the extra info on the freezer paper.


Kelly, You are welcome.


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## shirts4you2008 (Jul 23, 2008)

You shouldn't use ANY fabric softeners! They weaken your transfer and will crack a lot sooner than they should!

I use strickly Dark inkjet transfers for my business and they the pigment ink is very important too. 

You should really try these transfers..they are BEST I have found yet and the price is the best as well!!

Transfer paper | heat press | iron-on


Mel


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

I know it is suggested that you *shouldn't* use fabric conditioners Mel, but these are tees that are going to have to live into the *real* world out there. People are going to spill beer down their tees, tv dinners, pizzas, plus every type of sauce imaginable. The tees are going to get thrown into the wash machine along with everything else. 

Very few people are going to turn garments inside out, desist from using fabric conditioner, or not use the tumble dryer. The problems arise when the transfer crack or flake in a short period of time and people demand their money back stating the item is not 'of merchantable quality'. If they have paid through a reputable payment gateway, or credit card, they have additional consumer protection, that will almost certainly be enforced in their favour. You have to *prove* that they have washed the garment incorrectly to cause that sort of damage. Saying you enclosed washing instructions on a piece of paper, would have no legal credibility. The purchaser would simply deny that.


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

DREAMGLASS said:


> I know it is suggested that you *shouldn't* use fabric conditioners Mel, but these are tees that are going to have to live into the *real* world out there. People are going to spill beer down their tees, tv dinners, pizzas, plus every type of sauce imaginable. The tees are going to get thrown into the wash machine along with everything else.
> 
> Very few people are going to turn garments inside out, desist from using fabric conditioner, or not use the tumble dryer. The problems arise when the transfer crack or flake in a short period of time and people demand their money back stating the item is not 'of merchantable quality'. If they have paid through a reputable payment gateway, or credit card, they have additional consumer protection, that will almost certainly be enforced in their favour. You have to *prove* that they have washed the garment incorrectly to cause that sort of damage. Saying you enclosed washing instructions on a piece of paper, would have no legal credibility. The purchaser would simply deny that.


This is the real meat of the issues with heat transfers made from inkjet. I sell alot of shirts,but I try to tell people these are not going to be durable. I make a lot of memorial shirts and this is the quickest route to take. I may get a order for 50 or more and they will need them the next day. This is profitable, but stressful . ..... JB


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

shirts4you2008 said:


> You shouldn't use ANY fabric softeners! They weaken your transfer and will crack a lot sooner than they should!
> 
> I use strickly Dark inkjet transfers for my business and they the pigment ink is very important too.
> 
> ...


That paper you are using is either Ironall or Alpha, it's one of them for sure.


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## shirts4you2008 (Jul 23, 2008)

Well, I've had my business for going on three years now, and I include washing instructions with every single order. I have NEVER had a single person complain of problems after washing, or had anyone demand a refund, etc. People pay a lot of money to get the custom designs, so, they will take the steps to take care of their investment. It isnt just a regular old tshirt you throw on to go to the store to pick up milk. 
Whatever design you put on your transfer is what sold...not the tshirt itself. They don't want it to get messed up after they paid so much for it, so, trust me, they read those directions, and follow them. I think more people take the time to do it, than not.
But hey, we all have our own opinion..lol...right? I was just going by my own experience using the dark inkjet transfers for my successful business. 
Are you wanting to know if there is a transfer out there that you do NOT have to washing carefully, as far as inkjet transfers go? If that was your question, then I would have to say no. But in my opinion, anything you are trying to sell, and people will invest their money in, should be taken care of anyway. Any item of clothing you buy at a store has the washing instructions on the tag...why should this be any different?
Sorry, I dont mean to sound like I'm arguing! lol Just giving my point of view....
You should buy several different types of transfers and do your own experiments. Then you will know yourself. When you do, please post the results!! lol

Mel


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi Mel. I currently use sublimation for whites and vinyl for darks, where possible flaking, fading, or peeling doesn't arise. However the items are washed, they still look good.

The purpose of my starting this thread, was to see if there was an inkjet transfer for darks in existence, that could also be used in normal wash cycles.


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## shirts4you2008 (Jul 23, 2008)

Well then the answer is yes! lol I wash my own shirts all of the time, and my customers do too.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

shirts4you2008 said:


> Well then the answer is yes! lol I wash my own shirts all of the time, and my customers do too.


I agree I also have been using the dark paper on lights shirts. It works great and I have sold approx 200 shirts done this way and the only thing I have heard is they love them and are going to place more orders. I myself have washed some of them at least 12-15 times now and there more then fine. 

This is alpha that I'm using, but won't be buying alpha again as they paper itself is actually jetwear for darks and it's almost half the price under the jetwear name.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Living it Europe, I don't have access to many of the brands mentioned on this forum. What does make it more difficult, is when stateside suppliers refer to the same brand by different names. Before I go to the expense of importing any, I'd just want to be 100 percent sure that they were fit for purpose. 

If sublimation was able to print on darks, or vinyl wasn't such a pain to weed somedays, I'd stick with those methods. Getting full colour images onto dark fabrics would open up more design opportunities, which is why I am currently experimenting with print onto cloth, which is then adhered to the garment. No flaking, peeling, or fading. Just originally thought that inkjet transfers might have offered a more convenient option?


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

I have been gathering information on the papers and other items we all use. I'm so surprised of the little games played in this business with all the names and brands, it was driving me nuts. 

I will be putting it all together soon and releasing it. This goes for paper, inks, heat presses and more. The paper and ink is what started it... lol


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

R1 Thanks for being more patient than me. One question, after discussing with Ivan, I'm using the new claria inks from epson. They seem to do well on JPSS. Do they do well on the jetwear ? I guess I should make a few more tries with the alpha gold since I have a few more sheets just laying there. I guess the JPSS spoiled me and I wanted (still do) that same (or better) feel for the opaque.Anyway, thank you and will understand if you don't know about the new claria dye inks. they seem to do OK on the alpha but I just threw the shirt aside and never looked back. I need to find it and run it through a few wash cycles I guess. Then I will know just in case no one has tried the claria inks . will post after a few washes.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> One question, after discussing with Ivan, I'm using the new claria inks from epson. They seem to do well on JPSS.


Hey Terry, Ivan is a great guy. He's doing a test with his Claria on some Ironall Dark I sent him (thank you again, Ivan!). He told me the wash tests are going great so far. PS: We think JPSS handles anything thrown at it. After being an Ironall user, JPSS seems tough as nails.. 

I have a link for you with alot of great info on Claria, and nice pics from users from washes tests. Since this thread, I have run into more and more folks going with Claria ink. I don't see a bunch of unhappy people complaining about Claria on the board, and there are users (I feel a poll coming on!!!) so things must be good.  

Here's the link: 
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t46050.html#post273578


There are pics up above that post, and click the other links, I think they bring you to Ivan's pics.

While Claria has worked well for others, if no one has tried your paper yet, do the testing, like you are. Nothing beats seeing with your own eyes what your customer will see. It's your name on the product right, so you have to be happy with what goes out the door. My friend puts out junk I'd be embarrassed to sell, but she's fine with it, and amazingly enough, so are most of her customers.. haha.. I put alot more work into my product, but you know what... I'm happy with my product. There's a sense of pride I feel about my work, and I wouldn't have that if I sent "good enough" out the door. Okay, done here for now, tests are great and if you'd post your pics I'd be so thankful, I am a certified wash test junkie!!!  Have a great night!


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

DTFuqua said:


> R1 Thanks for being more patient than me. One question, after discussing with Ivan, I'm using the new claria inks from epson. They seem to do well on JPSS. Do they do well on the jetwear ? I guess I should make a few more tries with the alpha gold since I have a few more sheets just laying there. I guess the JPSS spoiled me and I wanted (still do) that same (or better) feel for the opaque.Anyway, thank you and will understand if you don't know about the new claria dye inks. they seem to do OK on the alpha but I just threw the shirt aside and never looked back. I need to find it and run it through a few wash cycles I guess. Then I will know just in case no one has tried the claria inks . will post after a few washes.


Hi Terry, no worries at all... 

I have used the OEM Claria Inks on my 1400 on about the first 50 or so of them and they were fine. I am now using the CIS from aplha and his ink too. 

If you are still using the Claria on a 1400 I have some good news for you... lol I have a full set of colors and two blacks that are un-opened. I put them up in the classified but no bites... so shoot me a pm if you are interested, as I don't want them to sit here too much longer. (been about a month)


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi. Thanks to everyone for their input into this thread. There have been a lot of useful contributions and ideas put forward.

As many of the brands suggested seem to be almost impossible to locate outside of the states, I have decided to keep the inkjet transfers purely for the bags and the hats. The cost of importing some of the brands put forward, is just too prohibitive on a smaller scale, due to freight bandings. Adding on customs clearance fees and import duties just pushes the price up way too far.

Thanks again everyone


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks Kelly I believe it was mostly you and Ivan doing the discussions on the thread I followed first about the claria inks but am also about to follow the link you sent. 
Thanks R1 I found the old shirt I put the alpha gold on and the colors do look good. After looking at it I remembered it was my pathetic attempt at trimming as much as the plasticy feel that I didn't like ( I tend to forget about my little mistakes/problems if there is something else to blame dissatisfaction on) . Also, thank you for offer for the ink carts but I already have the refillable ones with bottles of ink waiting to start using when the origional ones get empty.One question though. Why did you not use them? did you get a ciss or something or did you find another affordable ink that looked better?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> ..... After looking at it I remembered it was my pathetic attempt at trimming as much as the plasticy feel that I didn't like


Hey Terry, 

Are you cutting straight lines or curves?


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

DTFuqua said:


> Thanks Kelly I believe it was mostly you and Ivan doing the discussions on the thread I followed first about the claria inks but am also about to follow the link you sent.
> Thanks R1 I found the old shirt I put the alpha gold on and the colors do look good. After looking at it I remembered it was my pathetic attempt at trimming as much as the plasticy feel that I didn't like ( I tend to forget about my little mistakes/problems if there is something else to blame dissatisfaction on) . Also, thank you for offer for the ink carts but I already have the refillable ones with bottles of ink waiting to start using when the origional ones get empty.One question though. Why did you not use them? did you get a ciss or something or did you find another affordable ink that looked better?


Hello and your welcome, I had a decent sized job coming up and my current cartridges were about half full, I ordered a new set and then the next day I received a larger order again... I was not expecting this and at that point it made more sense to go with a CIS rather then cartridges. I tried to cancel the order with newegg, but they had already shipped. Rather then sending then back and paying a restocking fee plus shipping, I thought I would give someone a deal on them here. To my surprise I haven't had anyone inquire on them or want them. 

Call it a learning lesson... lol I know if it had been a week prior I would have loved for someone to sell me inks for 70% of the price or less.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

hi Kelly actually its letters and curves. The curves (outline of pic) was OK but some of the letters(not block letters either) stretched outside the main body of the picture and didn't want to risk setting them apart and not get them spot on in the correct position. And fears of mis-cutting such small letters with a drop shadow.
R1 Thank you . I was afraid you had gotten dissatisfied with them. Ivan has started looking elsewhere after all the trials he went through proving the worthiness of of the claria inks and his was the first one to really post a lot about them so if he is looking for something different, I was just wondering if there were a trend I should look into.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> ..... I was afraid you had gotten dissatisfied with them. Ivan has started looking elsewhere after all the trials he went through proving the worthiness of of the claria inks and his was the first one to really post a lot about them so if he is looking for something different, I was just wondering if there were a trend I should look into.


 
Hello, Ivan's still using the Claria says they are great. Had 3 orders this week with it, and he said all is going great. No worries...


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> Hello and your welcome, I had a decent sized job coming up and my current cartridges were about half full, I ordered a new set and then the next day I received a larger order again... I was not expecting this and at that point it made more sense to go with a CIS rather then cartridges. I tried to cancel the order with newegg, but they had already shipped. Rather then sending then back and paying a restocking fee plus shipping, I thought I would give someone a deal on them here. To my surprise I haven't had anyone inquire on them or want them.
> 
> Call it a learning lesson... lol I know if it had been a week prior I would have loved for someone to sell me inks for 70% of the price or less.


I think part of the problem is that even at 70% of the price, once you add in shipping it ends up being about the same as going down to your local Office Depot / Staples / Office Max....

I considered it but that is why I haven't bitten...


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

treadhead said:


> I think part of the problem is that even at 70% of the price, once you add in shipping it ends up being about the same as going down to your local Office Depot / Staples / Office Max....
> 
> I considered it but that is why I haven't bitten...


Well I was just guessing there on 70%, I think I said free shipping too... 

Let's say someone can buy them for 125.00 I will sell for 85.00 shipped... so they save 30% plus gas lol

EDIT/ADD, there 20.00 each in town, I'll sell them for 12.00 each shipped lol Maybe that will do it????


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

R1Lover said:


> Well I was just guessing there on 70%, I think I said free shipping too...
> 
> Let's say someone can buy them for 125.00 I will sell for 85.00 shipped... so they save 30% plus gas lol
> 
> EDIT/ADD, there 20.00 each in town, I'll sell them for 12.00 each shipped lol Maybe that will do it????


Sold! Check your PM...

I guess I missed the free shipping part..LOL

That's what I get for reading the forums so late at night.....


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

R1Lover said:


> Hi Terry, no worries at all...
> 
> I have used the OEM Claria Inks on my 1400 on about the first 50 or so of them and they were fine............ I am now using the CIS from aplha and his ink too.


 
R1, , I'm going to pm you.


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