# Sublimation printing on dark garments?



## hsingh

Does anyone have success with sublimation printing on dark color garments? I tried one and nothing was visible. On white it always works perfect. Someone mentioned to do a white sublimation on the area on the dark shirt and then do a colored sublimation.

I wanted to get your advice on how you do sublimation on the dark colored fabric??


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## Printor

You have to start with a light shirt, And sublimate the whole thing dark, except where you want your light image.


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## Jaimin

To make sure of your clothing,if it is pure cotton,you need use Dark t-shirt transfer paper and light t-shirt transfer paper respectively for dark clothing and light cotton clothing.If it is not cotton,sublimation paper is You'd better a grease paper attached on the transfer paper when using heat press machine.We are sublimation paper manufacturer. ink-sublimation


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## STPG Press

*Sublimation is for polyester only.

*Sublimation is a dye process, therefore it is designed for white and light colors only.

*When sublimating colors, the colors in your transfer will take on the color of the fabric and alter your final color after pressing.

*You can sublimate medium to darker colors if you're doing a black only transfer and still make it look good... but it's black on your color of fabric. This should be considered in your design.

*There is no such thing as white sublimation ink.


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## hongfunclothing

Yes , sublimation print is suitable For polyester fabric , mainly light color polyester fabric . 
Print on dark t-shirts You can use digital print . silkscreen print . discharge print , heat transfer ...


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## selanac

What you can do is contact a screen printing company and have them make custom transfers only. A nice opague ink will work on light and dark tshirts.


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## Marjeni4353

Sublimation print is for mainly light color polyester fabric.


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## Dekzion

Dark materials have already been dyed. you cannot re-dye them. you cannot change black paper to yellow either just by drawing with a yellow pen.


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## headfirst

While a white shirt is always best you can dye sub on colored shirts. Check out this blog post with photos and video illustrating an experiment I did that involved sublimating on to various colors of fabric
https://headfirstprinting.com/dye-sub-on-multiple-colors-of-fabric/


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## ginnocenti

I cant remember the tool, but you can do it in photoshop without wasting materials. We use it when clients want to know how their end product will come out.


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## ginnocenti

headfirst said:


> While a white shirt is always best you can dye sub on colored shirts. Check out this blog post with photos and video illustrating an experiment I did that involved sublimating on to various colors of fabric
> https://headfirstprinting.com/dye-sub-on-multiple-colors-of-fabric/



I cant remember the tool, but you can do it in photoshop without wasting materials. We use it when clients want to know how their end product will come out.


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## selanac

Saw the Sublimation on Cotton at the AC ISS Show. 

All smoking mirrors. Basically, they're using a transparent background transfer. So if you don't mind printing on a transfer you're good to go. 

The demo guy played it off like it was no big deal. Awe, that's just a backing support! he said. He had a big crowd around him. 

I really don't see why you wouldn't just print on a transfer, and cut the image out with a Silhouette Cameo or vinyl cutter. 

Better yet, a DTG machine with white ink. I really liked the Free Jet, FreeStyle, and Neo Jet. The freeStyle doesn't do white, but it doubles as a screen exposure system. You print your design right on the coated screen with the FreeStyle DTG. Than you pull the drawer out from underneath and expose it. Than off to the wash out. You can screen print on light colors, sorry no white right now. Probably look into buying one of those three.


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## sublial

Sublimation ink jet printed onto the {B} paper of IC for Dark and print the {A} paper mirror image with a white mask of the same design. Register them over a LED light table to marry them and then press the A paper to a 100% dark cotton shirt. The sublimation dyes marry to the papers coating that adheres to the cotton fibers of the shirt.
Softer hand
great wash fastness
95% less cracking
AL 1-908-213-2830


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## andywintx

Al, if you could make a youtube video showing this process it would answer a pile of questions, would ya think about it please?


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## sublial

Yes this is over due. I have developed a transparent film to replace the {A} paper to print the white toner on it in mirror image.
This eliminates the need for a light table to register the clear transparent film over the sublimation color ink on the {B} paper when marrying the two together. The clear film peels off the {B} paper like butter making the marrying procedure a no brainer anymore.
I will make a you tube video soon now as I intend to change marketing strategy of selling with this new process.


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## andywintx

Thanks Al, it can't be soon enough. I am sick of the plastic feel with the conventional method and even though I don't hear much about it I'm sure that my customers are too. By the way, assuming the cost will be competitive put me down for a truckload of your new product.

When you talk about 'marrying the two together', what temp, time, and pressure are you using?

You're the man Al-


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## TABOB

sublial said:


> This eliminates the need for a light table to register the clear transparent film over the sublimation color ink on the {B} paper when marrying the two together. The clear film peels off the {B} paper like butter making the marrying procedure a no brainer anymore.



No need... Just stick a pin through the cross-hair registration marks and tape the two sheet together with heat tape. 

Tedious and pointless process by the way. Why sublimating white toner, when you can use the same thickness of color toner?


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## DaveSmithe

sublial said:


> Yes this is over due. I have developed a transparent film to replace the {A} paper to print the white toner on it in mirror image.
> This eliminates the need for a light table to register the clear transparent film over the sublimation color ink on the {B} paper when marrying the two together. The clear film peels off the {B} paper like butter making the marrying procedure a no brainer anymore.
> I will make a you tube video soon now as I intend to change marketing strategy of selling with this new process.



AL ... please let us know when you do the video! 

Thanks

Dave


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## sublial

You use sublimation ink because it doesn,t have plastic resins as does TONERS does. Plastic resins is causing the cracking on the Oki White Toner transfers to cotton.
Sublimation ink only has dyes and water and they can,t crack as a solid does.
This is why you don,t use thick color toner.
_________________
AL [email protected] 1-908-213-2830


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## TABOB

sublial said:


> You use sublimation ink because it doesn,t have plastic resins as does TONERS does. Plastic resins is causing the cracking on the Oki White Toner transfers to cotton.
> Sublimation ink only has dyes and water and they can,t crack as a solid does.
> This is why you don,t use thick color toner.



So instead of using a thin layer of color toner, you use a thin layer of white toner, and sublimate it. What you end up, is basically a thin layer of colored toner. This would make sense, if the {a} sheet coating is receptive to sublimation inks. I've not tried it. 

However...if this is the case, you don't actually need the white toner. You could use black toner as negative.


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## sublial

You are correct in your statement.
The paper is designed for laser and not ink jet. So i use my laser white toner to remove the color sublimation ink from the B paper. True you can use another color but to do the same thing but if it has color it will distract from your intended picture and especially where White is apart of that design.

One other advantage to this process is after washing and drying the shirt you can enhance the colors to like new by ironing over the design by applying a Aluminum Foil over the design and ironing it for a 2 minutes. 
Apparently the sublimation dyes reactivate and enhances the picture.

This is not necessary and is an added feature to this process.

_____________________________
AL [email protected] 1-908-213-2830


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## bwdesigns

so, Al, If I have an oki white printer, and a ricoh sublimation printer in house, do I have what is necessary to complete this process?


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## sublial

Brenda, Yes except you nrrd the IC paper for darks.


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## andywintx

I have a lot more questions Al can you explain the process in more detail? I'm having a hard time visualizing the concept, are you running the b paper through your sub printer first and if so, is it with a mask? Details please! that youtube vid would be handy right about now


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## DaveSmithe

andywintx - read this from Al:
(posted in this thread: https://www.t-shirtforums.com/printers-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers/t821050.html)

"1 You print with your sublimation ink jet printer the color print onto the {B} paper of the Image Clip for Darks

2- Then you print with the white toner of the Oki the same design in Mirror image as a white mask. Choke it about 1000th smaller.

3- Put the two papers together over a LED light table to register them exactly and then press them onto each other. Peel hot.

4- press the {A} paper onto the dark color shirt and peel cold.

You don,t print onto the same paper twice 

AL 1-908-213-2830
[email protected]"


Also read Lnfortun's post here: 
https://www.t-shirtforums.com/p4342777-post2.html


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## Swaham

Sublimation don't work on dark colours and even if you try it on dark colours you won't get the resulting design. The main reason is that dark colours lacks white underbase and so it works proper on light colours


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## sublial

Sublimation does work when you can use white toner as an underbase, or the two step Image Clip paper for darks that has the underbase in there transfer paper {B} paper.
I have been doing this since 2011 and received a patent for this process in May of 2014.
AL


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## ravana

What about that Video Al? Would love to see the process, etc. Maybe some more pictures of the results? I have never worked with Sublimation, but I have 2 old Epsons around that I do not use, so I guess I could use one of them (WF 7015 and P50), kind regards.


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## yngwei50

I use micro-twill cloth and hotmelt adhesive on dark garments, follow this video link on how to do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82cZW5KuaM


Hope this helps.


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## webtrekker

So what are the advantages of your method over the tried and tested 3g Jet-Opaque? Surely your transfers are very thick as they are printed on twill which is then stuck to the shirt?


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## DrivingZiggy

Yeah, if I had to go through all of that just to be able to call it sublimation I would have some kind of breakdown. Shewwwwwwwww! Not only NOT accomplishing any diminished thickness of any of the dark transfers, but you also lose so much time doing all of those presses and then not even being able to contour cut on a cutter? No, thanks. I'd rather just use a transfer and call it a non-sub transfer.


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## adriatic

DrivingZiggy said:


> Yeah, if I had to go through all of that just to be able to call it sublimation I would have some kind of breakdown. Shewwwwwwwww! Not only NOT accomplishing any diminished thickness of any of the dark transfers, but you also lose so much time doing all of those presses and then not even being able to contour cut on a cutter? No, thanks. I'd rather just use a transfer and call it a non-sub transfer.



This image below can be done more or lea easy with suitable transfer material.


But if you want no cut effect. then you need to use two different printers with two different transfer paper and merge them on the same cotton fabrics. It is important that you do have compatible Developer in powder because in other case color image would sink in white beck ground coating and you would get milky white diluted images.


And as you can see this is sublimation and the colors are perfect


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## webtrekker

So, the answer is, after all of this discussion -

NO! You can NOT directly sublimate on dark garments. END OF! Get over it.


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## sublial

I was issued a patent in 5-27-14 for sublimation printing onto Dark cotton with the combination of white toner PERIOD.

1- 
it isn,t rocket science to understand.

You print the sublimation on the B paper while you are printing a white mask with white toner on the A paper at the same time.

You then marry the two sheets together after registering them on a light table. 

Then you apply the A paper to the shirt pressing it from the backside of the shirt for 50 seconds at 375 F.

Peel cold and the DYES from the sublimation fully outgas into the coating of the B paper that is adhered to the cotton shirt in 1200x1200 resolution.

I have made a video finally and am waiting for my web master to edit it for me so I can post it on You tube.

I will notify the forum in the next couple of weeks.

AL


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## webtrekker

sublial said:


> I was issued a patent in 5-27-14 for sublimation printing onto Dark cotton with the combination of white toner PERIOD.
> 
> 1-
> it isn,t rocket science to understand.
> 
> You print the sublimation on the B paper while you are printing a white mask with white toner on the A paper at the same time.
> 
> You then marry the two sheets together after registering them on a light table.
> 
> Then you apply the A paper to the shirt pressing it from the backside of the shirt for 50 seconds at 375 F.
> 
> Peel cold and the DYES from the sublimation fully outgas into the coating of the B paper that is adhered to the cotton shirt in 1200x1200 resolution.
> 
> I have made a video finally and am waiting for my web master to edit it for me so I can post it on You tube.
> 
> I will notify the forum in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> AL


With all due respect, that isn't direct sublimation to cotton. It's another layer ON TOP OF the cotton which holds the sublimated inks.


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## adriatic

Just take a look at this below image
This is simple and easy process
Yes this is sublimation ink
Only you need to have a suitable cutter if you do not want all white background


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## binki

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want to do this when there are so many other alternatives. To me this is like turkey bacon, it is just the word turkey followed by the word bacon but in now way is it bacon.


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## webtrekker

binki said:


> For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want to do this when there are so many other alternatives. To me this is like turkey bacon, it is just the word turkey followed by the word bacon but in now way is it bacon.


I was issued a patent for turkey bacon I'll have you know! 😉


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## binki

webtrekker said:


> I was issued a patent for turkey bacon I'll have you know! 😉


Yum! It still isn't bacon. Bacon is like meat candy!


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## NoXid

binki said:


> Yum! It still isn't bacon. Bacon is like meat candy!


I sometimes order a cheeseburger as a carrier for bacon. I never, ever, would eat a burger sans bacon. I used to eat veggie burgers ... with bacon 



With all due respect to those looking for, or in possession of, processes for sublimating cotton, *ink does not sublimate into cotton*. It is physically impossible. Sublimating a substrate that one sticks onto cotton is sticking something onto cotton, not sublimating cotton.

And one reason to go that route is to use a single printer and inkset for all transfers, be they for sublimation mugs, poly shirts, or cotton garments. It's a process that will make sense for some people and scenarios. But it is not the unicorn the name implies, or that people are looking for when they start threads like this.

Hmmm ... charred unicorn burger ... with bacon


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## webtrekker

I could believe in anything if it involved bacon: cotton sublimation, unicorns, black holes and the Big Bang being but a few of them.


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## adriatic

Here is one No Cut sample
Done with the same printer sublimation ink and extra White Cartridge and house hold ordinary iron. You need to have two suitable transfer paper. One is TT transfer paper and the other one is CT transfer paper


First you print in WCYM ink configuration for White BACKGROUND. Then you use second printer or BCYM ink set on the same printer. You print on CT transfer paper. 



You transfer first white background on dark fabrics. After that you marge CT color printout on white, As a CT transfer paper is clear transfer paper there is no problem at all about proper and perfect merging
Enjoy. Simple and cheep.


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## webtrekker

Ok. I'm out!


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## binki

Here are the better options in no order, 

1) Screen Print 
2) Screen Print 4 color process
3) Discharge print
4) Plastisol spot color transfer
5) Plastisol 4 color process
6) Cut Vinyl
7) Printed Vinyl
8) I am sure others will chime in
9) Crayons on a paper taped to the shirt

Sublimation on cotton is not the right process for the substrate, it is that simple. Pick your substrate, pick your process that works with it and go with it. All others are SJE (Slow, Jerky, Expensive)

Good Luck, You're Welcome


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## adriatic

Yes that is one point of view
But can you pint on Dark with white ink with € 200 - 300 initial investment



And one design at time


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## sublial

It amazes me that all of this discussion over a process that I invented as a less costly process to make a 1200x1200 process color onto a dark cotton shirt in only a bout 5 minutes.
To screen print it you have all of that equipment to purchase to make the screens, the set up time to register each screen and etc. All of that to make only one shirt with process color.

Incidently, I am the one who developed the WHITE TONER for the Oki printers to be used for this process. 
Now someone showed a vinyl transfer that needed to be cut and weeded. That is a less costly process then a laser or screen printing process if you like to do weeding.

every process has its place in decorating on dark color shirts. that is why there are different sizes of screw drivers in a tool box or why you use a power drill.
Point is. You don,t use the ink jet and white laser toner for dark cotton shirts to make a 100 to 1,000 shirts in process color.
At the same time you don,t screen print in process color 10 shirts for a dark cotton shirt.
You should enjoy the progress in our industry for the additional tools now available to us all to increase the sales to your customers at reasonable time and cost.
AL


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## into the T

sublial said:


> It amazes me that all of this discussion over a process that I invented as a less costly process to make a 1200x1200 process color onto a dark cotton shirt in only a bout 5 minutes.
> To screen print it you have all of that equipment to purchase to make the screens, the set up time to register each screen and etc. All of that to make only one shirt with process color.
> 
> Incidently, I am the one who developed the WHITE TONER for the Oki printers to be used for this process.
> Now someone showed a vinyl transfer that needed to be cut and weeded. That is a less costly process then a laser or screen printing process if you like to do weeding.
> 
> every process has its place in decorating on dark color shirts. that is why there are different sizes of screw drivers in a tool box or why you use a power drill.
> Point is. You don,t use the ink jet and white laser toner for dark cotton shirts to make a 100 to 1,000 shirts in process color.
> At the same time you don,t screen print in process color 10 shirts for a dark cotton shirt.
> You should enjoy the progress in our industry for the additional tools now available to us all to increase the sales to your customers at reasonable time and cost.
> AL


exactly al

it's like forever laser for darks, it is simply one process to get from point a to point b

you take a bus, i drive a lambo
but we still meet at point b for coffee and snacks


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## Mosibat

*Sublimation printing on dark possible*

You can use coating powder for dark and cotton


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## FXCreations

Hi all, i have being using the cotton sublimation paper and i cannot get it work every time. 
Should we press immediately after print. And also the wash fastness is not good..whats wrong. But the print feeling and looks just after press is very nice similar to screen printing.


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## sublial

What is the name of the paper you are using? Are you printing on white shirts or color shirts? What printers are you using?
AL


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## FXCreations

hi papers are from a supplier in china ... they produce their Own cotton to sublimation paper .
printer is a sublimation epson l1800 and printing on white 100%cotton tee.
fxc


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## sublial

Is the paper a self weeding paper also?
I am not familiar with that paper. 
AL


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## FXCreations

yes self weed .. very nice effect if we can master it. for me it's an alternative to screen printing using plastisol ink.


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## FXCreations

you can go YouTube and check supplier hanrun cotton to sublimation


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## randelllao

look into hot melt sublimation for your dark colored fabrics.


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## FXCreations

randelllao said:


> look into hot melt sublimation for your dark colored fabrics.


hello Randellai.. what is that..


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## sublial

The process is to long and isn,t self weeding.
AL


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## FXCreations

so do you guys consider a DTG UV for printing on textile rather using these method..or we stick to eco solvent which is better and less headache ... than using dark heat transfer papers.


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## sublial

I am going to upload some printed Dark cotton shirts for you to see.
AL


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## webtrekker

sublial said:


> I am going to upload some printed Dark cotton shirts for you to see.
> AL



Sorry Al, I'm not being funny here, honest, but they look terrible. They're nothing like a sublimated or DTG shirt.


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## pmzirkle

Try the JDS Tag transfer material


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## sublial

Wow, you are the first one who didn.t like these transfers.
AL


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## webtrekker

sublial said:


> Wow, you are the first one who didn.t like these transfers.
> AL


Or the first one to express an honest opinion maybe? 

What I'm saying is that they look like transfers stuck onto a garment and not anything like a sublimated print. They're comparable to JPSS judging from the photos you've supplied. 

Without seeing the actual product I'd guess these have a 'hand' and you can feel the edges of the print.


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## sublial

wrong again. know hand and can,t feel any edges.
AL


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## randelllao

good day sir! how is this different from a dark transfer paper? your post a while back said that "DYES from the sublimation fully outgas into the coating of the B paper that is adhered to the cotton shirt". so from my understanding the "B paper" is stuck on the shirt like a dark transfer paper. Sorry for being ignorant. we dont have much access to new innovations in shirt printing here in the philippines.


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## davidjhn127

When printing the substrate, go from the lightest color to the darkest. This is similar to CMYK color configuration where we start from yellow which is the lightest and end with black.


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## sublial

The coating that is on the paper with the dyes releases from the paper when heat pressed onto the shirt and the paper is cold peeled from the shirt thus only leaving the white coating and the color dyed image on the shirt.
AL


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## randelllao

sublial said:


> The coating that is on the paper with the dyes releases from the paper when heat pressed onto the shirt and the paper is cold peeled from the shirt thus only leaving the white coating and the color dyed image on the shirt.
> AL


oh i get it. thanks! that's an amazing product! i wish i could try it for myself


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## sublial

You can by sending a PM with your address for free samples.
AL


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## doubler82

sublial said:


> You can by sending a PM with your address for free samples.
> AL


I would love a free sample if possible as well. Pm'ing


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## sketchgeek

sublial said:


> The coating that is on the paper with the dyes releases from the paper when heat pressed onto the shirt and the paper is cold peeled from the shirt thus only leaving the white coating and the color dyed image on the shirt.
> AL





Hi Al,
Could you please post a video of your process. Seems very interesting.


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## sublial

It is pretty simple. just print the color with the sublimation printer on the {B}paper
Then print the white toner on the {A} paper.
Put the two papers together and press them to remove the color onto the A paper.
Now press onto the shirt for 50 seconds with HEAVY pressure to cold peel.
ALL DONE { 5 minutes}


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## jasonk61987

So what I have seen, using scrap/leftover vinyl, cut the shape of the sublimation on vinyl then place on desired position on shirt and make sure is firmly in place then but a board inside the garment then bleach the shape in the black shirt to white “heat gun hurry’s the bleach process” then cover the rest of the shirt to avoid over spray, once it’s bleached white spray with hydrogen peroxide and let dry, now print the sublimation, just a tad bigger to avoid a white outline the press the sublimation, wallah done baby, sounds very time consuming but really it isnt


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## NoXid

marwa said:


> You can print on a dark shirt with some paper trick, many people have used and reviewed this procedure on youtube.


That is sticking a printed transfer onto a garment. At that point it does not matter how the transfer material was printed. Could be pigment, sublimation, solvent, finger paints. It is irrelevant, as the garment itself is being decorated by a STICKER, not absorbing sublimation ink itself. Might as well staple a screen printed plywood sign to a T-shirt and claim to have screen printed the T-shirt. The end result is in no way similar--in terms of hand feel and durability--as actually directly printing to the garment.

EIDT Which is not to say that EasySubli, and the like, doesn't have its uses, as with any other type of stuck-on vinyl or transfer. But it is clearly not a way to achieve the defining characteristics and qualities of sublimation on a dark garment.


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## kamran blogger

Sublimation will not work with dark colors due to a lack of a white underbase to make the colors pop. For successful printing with dark colors, an underbase of white must be laid down before the colors are applied.


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