# Cleaning Screens Nightmare-Problem Solved



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Until today we have been cleaning screens using 6 or more steps. Takes my guy a full day to do 12-15 screens. 
Today I did 22 in 2 hours.
Dip tank!!!
Wow, I didn't know it could be so easy. I used a 40 gallon "tank" that's been sitting in my shop since October 08. Used 10 gallons of easi-strip and the rest water and some assorted ad-ins. 
I put my screens in there with half-carded ink, tape, everything raw off the press. When the tape loosens up, I peel it and set the screen back in for a few minutes- pressure wash, dehaze/degrease- done! Man we've been working ourselves to death.


----------



## aaltier (Sep 6, 2008)

I'm getting a dip tank... tomorrow. Thanks for making it clear how helpful they are!


----------



## jmlampert23 (Nov 7, 2008)

i have been using a dip take for about 10 years now. thinking about getting a bigger one soon


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

My "tank" is actually an expensive screen systems automatic screen washer slash p.o.s. it only cleans off ink- wtf? I need all that sh_t off the screens in one step. I decided to just use the very large basin as a tank and it also has a lid. Damn thing works great! And the dehaze is a degreaser so it is now a 2 step process tape and all.


----------



## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

I'm told a dip tank is always the last item purchase and yet it seems like it would save the most work?
Am I missing something?


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

out da box said:


> My "tank" is actually an expensive screen systems automatic screen washer slash p.o.s. it only cleans off ink- wtf? I need all that sh_t off the screens in one step. I decided to just use the very large basin as a tank and it also has a lid. Damn thing works great! And the dehaze is a degreaser so it is now a 2 step process tape and all.


What are you using as a one step dehazer and degrease at the same time?


----------



## spaz (Jun 5, 2008)

AdVanceNetworks said:


> I'm told a dip tank is always the last item purchase and yet it seems like it would save the most work?
> Am I missing something?


My guess is that because they're big and potentially expensive, they're a luxury that people just starting out forgo.


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

It's only a 300-500 dollar investment. I spend that in emulsion, It's just an overlooked and non-sexy item. Plus many printers just don't realize how.valuable they are.


----------



## jlpwoody (Mar 10, 2009)

I my sound like a cheep a## but i use a plastic and a metal 55 gallon drum for my tanks you can find them free!


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

jlpwoody said:


> I my sound like a cheep a## but i use a plastic and a metal 55 gallon drum for my tanks you can find them free!


That's not being cheap. That's basically all a dip tank is, a big tank. Some have drain spouts, some don't.


----------



## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

Thanks guys! I 'm thinking about utilizing a large storage tub, any down sides that you can think of?


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Find the biggest, squarest, leak-proof tank you can find. I already had the thing I'm using now, so I used what I had. Texsource had a special last week, buy three 5 gallon containers of one-step and get the tank free- should've bought it.


----------



## chlorus.york (Feb 10, 2009)

i simply use d-Grease from Franmar Chemicals, its an all natural SoyBean mix so safe to use in a non-ventilated area and does a great job cleaning the screens. I can clean a screen completely in 2-3 minutes. ;-)


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

out da box said:


> Until today we have been cleaning screens using 6 or more steps. Takes my guy a full day to do 12-15 screens.
> Today I did 22 in 2 hours.
> Dip tank!!!


It doesn't take a dip tank to do that in under 2 hours. Do you not have a pressure washer or something?

I can't imagine taking a full day to clean 12 screens - even allowing for the hypothetical that I was trying to do as little work as possible and fool the boss that it took that long.

What am I missing here?


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I have two pressure washers and every brush, chemical, hose, and sink in the arsenal, my guy is just slow. It would have taken me almost 4 hours or more with the tape and ink though for 22 screens.
The tank easily cut the process in half or better.


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Solmu said:


> It doesn't take a dip tank to do that in under 2 hours. Do you not have a pressure washer or something?
> 
> I can't imagine taking a full day to clean 12 screens - even allowing for the hypothetical that I was trying to do as little work as possible and fool the boss that it took that long.
> 
> What am I missing here?


Curious Lewis, are you a screen printer?


----------



## tdigital (Sep 14, 2008)

Congrats! I just got my dip tank system setup and I agree, the time savings is huge. Aside from doing oversized screens, this is the new standard for my shop.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

TshirtGuru said:


> Curious Lewis, are you a screen printer?


No, I'm just "imagining" how long it should take in my head 

Yes, of _course_ I'm a screenprinter. I wouldn't be stating my opinion if I wasn't.

I don't work in a shop, so I don't have to deal in volume. It also means I haven't timed _every_thing I do. But I don't recall it taking more than half an hour or so to reclaim eight screens (no dip tank involved).

Screens with locked in emulsion are a *****, but properly exposed screens practically reclaim themselves. Taking tape off is slow, but not that slow. Ink removal is a no brainer.

I just can't see why it should take more than, say, five minutes per screen (tops).

I would expect this thread to be full of printers saying "Why is it taking you so long?", and the fact that it isn't makes me feel like I've entered... dun dun dun... The Twilight Zone.

If it took that long to reclaim a screen, how would we ever get anything done? Why would we reclaim so much when the labour cost would be absurd?

Seriously, what am I missing here?


----------



## majesticmind (Sep 1, 2007)

spray on ink remover and scrub, spray off. Spray on emulsion remover and scrub, spray off. Degrease screen, and spray off. Cleaning 5 or 6 minutes. Let dry for another emulsion application.


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

I can reclaim 1 screen in 5 minutes or so with no dip tank. Maybe more with big auto screens taped up heavily. 
All day to clean 15 screens is awfully slow- we all can agree to that, but....
I can do a screen in less than 2 minutes now- no tape struggling, no ink removal by hand or scrubbing, no 3 or more trips under the pressure washer. 
Hey whatever works for your shop.

typical steps old fashioned way assuming really bad screen:
1. ink removal- spray, scrub, 
2. pressure wash.
3. tape removal
4. more ink removal or possibly not...
5. pressure wash
6. emulsion remover- spray
7. pressure wash
8. dehaze /degrease
9. pressure rinse.

dip tank:
1.dip- now that's easy...
2.tape removal- really easy
3.pressure wash
4.dehaze / degrease
5.pressure rinse


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

out da box said:


> All day to clean 15 screens is awfully slow- we all can agree to that, but....
> I can do a screen in less than 2 minutes now-


I've never used a dip tank. I might find it speeds my process too. I just think if it's taking _that_ long in the 'before' scenario, then there's a far larger problem at hand that needs addressing, and in that case the thread can serve more than one purpose.

It doesn't matter how great your process is, if whoever is implementing it is *that* inefficient, you're losing real revenue.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

out da box said:


> typical steps old fashioned way assuming really bad screen:
> 1. ink removal- spray, scrub,
> 2. pressure wash.
> 3. tape removal
> ...



That's at least part of the problem right there. Step 2 is unnecessary. Step 1 and 3 can be combined. Step four and five are unnecessary.

In other words, steps 1-5 should actually be just step 1.

Maybe this is another waterbased vs. plastisol thing (I'm a waterbased printer, not plastisol).


----------



## Mr.G00D (Jun 24, 2008)

*Thank you so much. I have been having a hard time cleaning them, that sounds perfect thanks. *


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

You must pressure wash the ink off with plastisol before applying stencil remover. Most of the time we have to dehaze. Removing tape before loosening it with water/and or chemicals is a nightmare.
I'm sure water-based clean up involves less steps.
And Lewis, the nonproductivity issues with some of our help and processes is being addressed post haste.
Dip Tank!


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Solmu said:


> No, I'm just "imagining" how long it should take in my head
> 
> Yes, of _course_ I'm a screenprinter. I wouldn't be stating my opinion if I wasn't.
> 
> ...


It was a question without anything hidden behind it.  Not everyone here is a screen printer so I thought I'd ask...

I can reclaim 20 screens in 2 hours. So average about 3 minutes a screen without a dip tank (for oversized screens, it takes me double the time).

My steps are as follows with Plastisol:
1. Ink and tape is already scrapped off before it's taken off the press.

2. I spray screen wash and quickly wipe the screen to dilute any left over ink film as ink film will not allow emulsion remover to apply properly.

3. I rinse the screen with water then apply emulsion remover.

4. While that screen is sitting there, I move on to the next screen with steps 1-3. I do this until I collect 6 screens. 

5. I spray each one out with a pressure washer, dehaze all of them, degrease and place in my dark room.

While the chemicals are sitting on the screen doing their job, you should move on to the next screen.

I also have filtered my washout booth, so I have to fuss with that once in awhile when it clogs.

I am looking for a dip tank though (as in my opinion, reclaiming is one of the worst parts of screen printing), I will be doing higher volume jobs soon and I won't be wasting so much chemicals.


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Henry, I'm with you on your steps. We also cycle 4-6 screens at a time the old fashioned way. But you still have to remove the ink and tape at some point, either on the press, off the press, or when reclaiming, it's still time consuming- especially on an auto- you ain't never seen so much tape- trust me.


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

out da box said:


> Henry, I'm with you on your steps. We also cycle 4-6 screens at a time the old fashioned way. But you still have to remove the ink and tape at some point, either on the press, off the press, or when reclaiming, it's still time consuming- especially on an auto- you ain't never seen so much tape- trust me.


Yeah I feel you, tape is often hard to get off, especially on our oversized screens. We use double/triple the tape on those. 

I also have a raincoat gear near my washout station, I put on a raincoat, apron, ventilation mask, Baseball Cap, Gloves, full face mask, and Boots. I look like I'm going into chemical warfare. Almost like the pic below. (I used to be reeeeaally slow, when I used to care what my clothes looked like after a reclaiming session). Now I don't give a [email protected]#[email protected]! and attack the screens! 

But good to hear the dip tank is working well for you.


----------



## jsreid (Oct 10, 2008)

out da box said:


> You must pressure wash the ink off with plastisol before applying stencil remover. Most of the time we have to dehaze. Removing tape before loosening it with water/and or chemicals is a nightmare.
> I'm sure water-based clean up involves less steps.
> And Lewis, the nonproductivity issues with some of our help and processes is being addressed post haste.
> Dip Tank!


I always remove all the ink before doing any pressure washing. It only takes me less then 5 minutes to get to that point. And I don't see how it is so hard to take off tape. As long as you dog ear the ends I can get tape off in 30 seconds. no chemicals needed.


----------



## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

Nce visual!


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Blue tape comes off easy, but we're using a "secret" new tape process, that works beautiful, but.... it's REALLY STICKY. I may do a before and after video.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

I've got a small time setup in my garage now but I did 13 screens the other day in 2 hours. 

This included removing the ink and putting it back in the containers, removing the tape, wiping out the ink with mineral spirits, spraying with emulsion remover and pressure washing, spraying with degreaser and rinsing with pressure washer and then putting them out to dry in the sun. These were 18" x 24" wooden screens.

I also have to empty my 5 gallon bucket every 4 screens or so...LOL!!


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Ok...I admit I haven't done any research yet on dip tanks so don't abuse me on this pleaes! lol

What happens to all of the gunk from the screens? Does it just settle in the bottom of the tank? Is there a screen / mesh in the bottom that catches all the bunk that can be cleaned? How often do you need to clean the tank solution?


----------



## LaTonya (Sep 1, 2008)

Hello Ridgely, what kind of ink and chemcials are you using.
LaTonya


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

i use standard plastisol ink. My old routine was ink wash(Nazdar) or paint thinner (works good)- presure wash, stencil remover (ICC), pressure wash, I think the dehaze/degreaser is called liquid renew made by ICC. Or I used to use ICC haze paste.
In the dip tank I use easyway easistrip-one step and nazdar one step solution cut 1:5 with water.
The solids migrate to the bottom of the tank, it should hold up for a couple of months before needing to be cleared or chemicals recharged. 
I just saw the perfect plastic rectangular and tall trash cans at home depot for 40.00- they would be perfect for using as a tank for screens.


----------



## hellah fresh (Feb 26, 2009)

jlpwoody said:


> I my sound like a cheep a## but i use a plastic and a metal 55 gallon drum for my tanks you can find them free!



GOOOD Freaking idea! Im jsut starting out and i only have about 85% of my equipment. So with the gallon i just use the emulsion stripper and thats it? All the inks will break up with that one emulsion removal chemical?


----------



## tdigital (Sep 14, 2008)

hellah fresh said:


> GOOOD Freaking idea! Im jsut starting out and i only have about 85% of my equipment. So with the gallon i just use the emulsion stripper and thats it? All the inks will break up with that one emulsion removal chemical?


You still need to degrease the screens after removing them from the dip tank or possibly give them a once over with ink/stain remover.

Other than that, you should be good..


----------



## hellah fresh (Feb 26, 2009)

Very niceee. Well im going to get me a 55 Gal drum from my gfs dad who work at a place where he makes oil. And im going to have my dad cut it in half so it wont be so tall. Thanks for savig me a bounch of money guys i really appreciate it.


----------



## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

I looked at the dip tank on screenprintingsupplie.com and thought, how does this cost almost $250.00? I may just go get a big plastic storage doohicky and make my own. I actually have a big fish tank I could use. I have fish, but I'm sure they'd die after the first cleaning so problem solved with what to do with the fish.


----------



## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

I was at Homedepot and there are several that would work.


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

The one's I saw at home depot today wont fit 23x31 screens, but they should work for 20x24 or smaller. $30.00.


----------



## BillyV (May 8, 2009)

I have all 24x20...

Now I just need to find the best price on chems...


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Billy shoot for 100.00 for a 5 gallon container for a one-step solution- it doesn't have to be easi-way.


----------



## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

out da box said:


> The one's I saw at home depot today wont fit 23x31 screens, but they should work for 20x24 or smaller. $30.00.


Slap a logo on it and sell it for $200.


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Hmmmmmmmmm


----------



## printzonedave (Jun 6, 2009)

out da box said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm


How does the dip tank work on metal screens...? Do the chemicals cause any damage to the hardware? I would hate to put those expensive screens in there and end up with a bunch of corrosion and not being able to re-tension them... Good idea though!


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Does no harm to aluminum screens, all of mine's are aluminum or rollers.


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

If you have trouble finding a large enough container, try using a deep freezer. Broken deep freezers are cheap in craigslist, $50? That's what I am planning on.


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Only thing I've found is if your tank is too big, it will take a huge volume of water to fill it up. You don't want to dilute the chemicals too much. My tank is already 40-50 gallons, and it's damn heavy with water.


----------



## swbball28 (Apr 25, 2009)

can you dispose the chemicals used in the tank down the drain?


----------



## hellah fresh (Feb 26, 2009)

out da box said:


> Billy shoot for 100.00 for a 5 gallon container for a one-step solution- it doesn't have to be easi-way.



Where? does he or they have a website?


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

Check Nazdar and Texsource for one-step solutions.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

swbball28 said:


> can you dispose the chemicals used in the tank down the drain?


I've been pondering the idea of getting a 30 gallon plastic storage container from Dollar General ($16) and adding a onestep solution.

But, I have the same question....

What do you do with the solution when it finally "wears out"?


----------



## out da box (May 1, 2007)

pour it down the drain. What do you do with the emulsion that washes off your screens or the ink that washes down your spray out booth?
Plus when the chemicals need to be refreshed, their active ingredients have expired.


----------

