# DIY flourescent exposure unit times?



## Freespool (Nov 27, 2013)

*DIY flourescent exposure unit times? with pictures*

Thanks to everyone who has helped me here with my screen printing journey. I have exposed several screens with a halogen bulb and have constructed a fluorescent exposure unit. I am looking for a estimated time to begin trying this unit. I did purchase a 7 step test and will try it when I begin. Here are the details. I will be pressing the transparency down with foam and weights.
What length of time should I start with and increase by until I find the correct exposure? My old halogen exposures ranged from 13 to 17 minutes. How much time will I save?
I also built a drying cabinet with fans I will post later.
Thanks!

1.Emulsion-Ryonet WPB 1/1 coat
2. 110 mesh screen
3. (6) 24 inch GE F20 T12 Blacklight bulbs 20 watts each
4. 1/4 inch plate glass
5. Bulbs are 2 inches from the glass.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

I'm certainly no expert but I think I would start with a 4 min exposure and increase it 1 minute at a time for a 5 step test. My 8 bulb unit with that same emulsion took 5min 45sec


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## anubhavtees (Oct 19, 2015)

I have 2 black light with same setup......What should be my exposure time??????


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

I don't know what yours would be as that's a much different setup then mine....do you mean "only" 2 black lights?


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## Jamyn (Jul 9, 2015)

I expose in 4.5 minutes on my DIY unit. I have, however, 8 40-watt fluorescent lamps, and I use a low iron glass of the same thickness. I am installing a vacuum top on Saturday, so hopefully my exposure times and detail will improve.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Jamyn said:


> I expose in 4.5 minutes on my DIY unit. I have, however, 8 40-watt fluorescent lamps, and I use a low iron glass of the same thickness. I am installing a vacuum top on Saturday, so hopefully my exposure times and detail will improve.


A vacuum lid will do zero to the exposure times. It may hold better detail but if your films are good and your using enough weight it won't improve. It is nice though not having to lift the weight all the time. 

The best one can do with these units is to space the bulbs evenly and know approximate overlap of the lights to obtain spacing. I made a half circle and put a hole to fit around the bulb, turned off all my lights in room. Had lines in 1/2" increments and turned 1 bulb on. FYI it best to wear sunglasses if your looking at bulbs directly. I looked down the bulb and half circle to see where the strongest beam stopped then spaced bulbs so that the strongest beams just meet. 

Looking at a lot of the home built units many use 2 bulb fixtures and so there are 2 close bulbs and then the next fixture placed further then the spacing of the 2 bulbs within the fixture. This causes stronger and weaker areas of UV which will cause exposure problems. When washing out a screen the top left may wash out fine while the top right can be over exposed and almost impossible to wash out or under exposed and blows out. More typically it is hard to washout in areas and the under exposed areas will hold if proper screen prep was done.


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## Jamyn (Jul 9, 2015)

sben763 said:


> A vacuum lid will do zero to the exposure times.
> 
> Looking at a lot of the home built units many use 2 bulb fixtures and so there are 2 close bulbs and then the next fixture placed further then the spacing of the 2 bulbs within the fixture. This causes stronger and weaker areas of UV which will cause exposure problems. When washing out a screen the top left may wash out fine while the top right can be over exposed and almost impossible to wash out or under exposed and blows out. More typically it is hard to washout in areas and the under exposed areas will hold if proper screen prep was done.


I definitely thought that my exposure times would have been less with the vacuum top in place, and I am really bummed out that this is not so.

My lamps are less than six inches from the glass, and spaced at 2.5 inches from each other. I have noticed, however, that some areas on my screens are harder to wash out than others, so you are spot on with that assessment. 

I plan to convert to LEDs in the future, which is why I opted for fluorescent lamps, and not metal halide unit.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Jamyn said:


> I definitely thought that my exposure times would have been less with the vacuum top in place, and I am really bummed out that this is not so.
> 
> My lamps are less than six inches from the glass, and spaced at 2.5 inches from each other. I have noticed, however, that some areas on my screens are harder to wash out than others, so you are spot on with that assessment.
> 
> I plan to convert to LEDs in the future, which is why I opted for fluorescent lamps, and not metal halide unit.


The areas hard to washout cold be due to the overlap or if you have film issues or not positive contact. 

The LED in multipoint is just slightly better then the florecent units. 

If you really want to speed up time try a photopolymer emulsion. If doing water base that limits the photopolymers you can use. I do mostly plastisol but occasionally waterbase or discharge. I use Saati Chem PHU. With post exposure holds up well to waterbase. You will hear some say that can't get the same detail as a dual cure. With proper exposure IMO with a blacklight unit a photopolymer gives better detail as it exposes so much faster then dual cure that the under cutting is greatly reduced. 

Saati Chem PHU. 8 bulb blacklight unit 1:30-2:00. Metal halide 1K 45 sec. My single source LED 6-10 sec.


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## anubhavtees (Oct 19, 2015)

yep only 2 black light 20 watt each


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## Jamyn (Jul 9, 2015)

sben763 said:


> The areas hard to washout cold be due to the overlap or if you have film issues or not positive contact.
> 
> The LED in multipoint is just slightly better then the florecent units.
> 
> ...


I am using a photopolymer --- S.E.X., and plastisol inks even though I have a starter kit from Speedball with water based inks that I have yet to use.

I was a bit bummed that I didn't get faster exposure times with my setup. Four and a half minutes is not bad, but thought that I would be getting an exposure time closer to 2 minutes. 

I have a Stouffer 7 step that I will use once I get my vacuum top installed as it is entirely possible that I am over-exposing my screens; my last screen took a while to wash out and I was at 4 minutes for that exposure.

Overall, I am extremely happy with my DIY --- saved me a bit over going with a commerical unit.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

When I first build mine I just used stuff I had laying around. I found a piece of glass that was the size I wanted in my basement so I just went with that. My exposure times were 60 mins or more with 4 bulbs. I couldn't understand it until a month or two ago when I went to clamp down the lid and the glass exploded. Turns out it was safety glass lol. Now with regular glass I'm right around 5 mins.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Jamyn said:


> I am using a photopolymer --- S.E.X., and plastisol inks even though I have a starter kit from Speedball with water based inks that I have yet to use.
> 
> I was a bit bummed that I didn't get faster exposure times with my setup. Four and a half minutes is not bad, but thought that I would be getting an exposure time closer to 2 minutes.
> 
> ...


Ill bet you don't have the right bulbs. You should be using Unfiltered Black lights. Damar 48-Inch 40 Watt T12 Unfiltered Black Light F40T12BL something like that. You have to make sure the are "unfiltered" GE has a cheaper version that works well but they also have a ver that just say blacklight and are slightly less but only put out about as much UV as a standard florescent bulb. If I remember right there is 1 digit difference it the 2 so if you have GE bulbs you thought were right they may not be.

I have used the S.E.X emulsion, Bob at performance screen. Its a rebranded emulsion. Maybe from Chromaline as they seem to have mostly Chromaline products just like most of Ryonets chemicals are rebranded CCI products. 

When I had my 8 bulb exposure unit I think it was it was around 45-1:30 depending on thickness and mesh but it has been 6-7 years since I've used it


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## Jamyn (Jul 9, 2015)

sben763 said:


> Ill bet you don't have the right bulbs. You should be using Unfiltered Black lights. Damar 48-Inch 40 Watt T12 Unfiltered Black Light F40T12BL something like that. You have to make sure the are "unfiltered" GE has a cheaper version that works well but they also have a ver that just say blacklight and are slightly less but only put out about as much UV as a standard florescent bulb. If I remember right there is 1 digit difference it the 2 so if you have GE bulbs you thought were right they may not be.
> 
> I have used the S.E.X emulsion, Bob at performance screen. Its a rebranded emulsion. Maybe from Chromaline as they seem to have mostly Chromaline products just like most of Ryonets chemicals are rebranded CCI products.
> 
> When I had my 8 bulb exposure unit I think it was it was around 45-1:30 depending on thickness and mesh but it has been 6-7 years since I've used it


My response went missing...I got my bulbs from 1000bulbs.com, and paid about $4.20 per., so definitely the cheaper version. I will have to pick up 8 of these, as 4 minutes is far too long to wait to expose, and I will test the emulsion you used as well. I hate waiting around if I can help it.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

You might want to try Ulano Orange. It exposes very fast, but stay away if you do any kind of waterbased printing. It will break down after 10 shirts max.


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## Jamyn (Jul 9, 2015)

2020 PrintWorks said:


> You might want to try Ulano Orange. It exposes very fast, but stay away if you do any kind of waterbased printing. It will break down after 10 shirts max.


Thanks -- I will definitely order a quart as well when my current emulsion is finished. I am still in the experimental stages to see what looks works best for me.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Jamyn said:


> Thanks -- I will definitely order a quart as well when my current emulsion is finished. I am still in the experimental stages to see what looks works best for me.


If your wanting to try stuff before buying most will send samples. The Ulano orange is ok. A little on the thin side so EOM(emulsion over mesh) is minamal vs some of the other photopolymers. It's a good halftone stencil especially for colors over a underbase where the thinner stencil works well. Contact Scott at spot color supply I think he has samples of Saati or has a big discounts on first time purchases of a product. I have a video I did a few years back comparing the Ulano orange, Saati Chem and the Ryonet hi-fi. YouTube user sben7633 I think the title is screen coat. If you can't find it let me know and I'll post link.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

BTW You may like the orange, you may hate it. You will have to find your preference and what fits your printing style that why I suggest emailing and calling to get samples


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

sben763 said:


> If your wanting to try stuff before buying most will send samples. The Ulano orange is ok. A little on the thin side so EOM(emulsion over mesh) is minamal vs some of the other photopolymers. It's a good halftone stencil especially for colors over a underbase where the thinner stencil works well. Contact Scott at spot color supply I think he has samples of Saati or has a big discounts on first time purchases of a product. I have a video I did a few years back comparing the Ulano orange, Saati Chem and the Ryonet hi-fi. YouTube user sben7633 I think the title is screen coat. If you can't find it let me know and I'll post link.


Does it make a difference if you get the blue or the red? I might try it the next time I order emulsion. I initially went with the orange because its cheap but, the Saati is actually right around the same price.
I also found the orange to be thinnner than I'm used to. The Saati is actually right around the same price too.


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## Jamyn (Jul 9, 2015)

sben763 said:


> If your wanting to try stuff before buying most will send samples. The Ulano orange is ok. A little on the thin side so EOM(emulsion over mesh) is minamal vs some of the other photopolymers. It's a good halftone stencil especially for colors over a underbase where the thinner stencil works well. Contact Scott at spot color supply I think he has samples of Saati or has a big discounts on first time purchases of a product. I have a video I did a few years back comparing the Ulano orange, Saati Chem and the Ryonet hi-fi. YouTube user sben7633 I think the title is screen coat. If you can't find it let me know and I'll post link.


I purchased ink samples --- don't remember the name of the company, but I paid $10 per pint. Ulano's was even better --- sent free samples of products for me to test, so I have a certain loyalty to them for the kindness that Paul over there showed to this newbie .

The learning curve is not that steep for actual screen printing --- my early efforts were better than I could have hoped. However, learning Ai is slow but I am progessing every day. Once I become efficient with process color separations, i will be on my way!

To OP poster: I am sorry for hijacking your thread, and thanks to all who chimed in with advise -- muchas gracias!


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## Freespool (Nov 27, 2013)

No problem for hijacking the thread. The purpose of this forum is to learn and better ones knowledge about screen printing and what works best for there applications. It has helped me greatly for my personal business and advertising. I feel I should give back since others have put out so much valuable information that helped me understand.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

2020 PrintWorks said:


> Does it make a difference if you get the blue or the red? I might try it the next time I order emulsion. I initially went with the orange because its cheap but, the Saati is actually right around the same price.
> I also found the orange to be thinnner than I'm used to. The Saati is actually right around the same price too.


 
No difference. They also make the PHU in orange. I just got a gallon from Ace screen Supply in OH. They drop shipped from saati and sent the red from their stock


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

sben763 said:


> No difference. They also make the PHU in orange. I just got a gallon from Ace screen Supply in OH. They drop shipped from saati and sent the red from their stock


That's cool. They're only a day or two from me. I used to buy a transfer paper from them called multistrip 3000(pretty sure that's what it was called). Best paper I've ever found by far but they quit making it.


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## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

2020 PrintWorks said:


> That's cool. They're only a day or two from me. I used to buy a transfer paper from them called multistrip 3000(pretty sure that's what it was called). Best paper I've ever found by far but they quit making it.


Ultrastrip 3000

They still have it. 
UltraStrip 3000 Hot Peel Paper


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

diyjunkie said:


> Ultrastrip 3000
> 
> They still have it.
> UltraStrip 3000 Hot Peel Paper


Sweet. I ordered some when I was ordering from them a few weeks ago. I had enough to make the free shipping and I seen the comment absolutely the best hot peel tranfer paper so I added a pack. Next month I'll be printing a bunch of transfers.


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## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

sben763 said:


> Sweet. I ordered some when I was ordering from them a few weeks ago. I had enough to make the free shipping and I seen the comment absolutely the best hot peel tranfer paper so I added a pack. Next month I'll be printing a bunch of transfers.


So what is the magic for getting free freight? Every time I put $250 in my cart it wants to charge me >60 bucks freight. There's stuff I'd like to buy from them but I source it elsewhere. Confused.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

diyjunkie said:


> So what is the magic for getting free freight? Every time I put $250 in my cart it wants to charge me >60 bucks freight. There's stuff I'd like to buy from them but I source it elsewhere. Confused.


Choose local pick up. In comments put please ship and repeat your address there.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

diyjunkie said:


> Ultrastrip 3000
> 
> They still have it.
> UltraStrip 3000 Hot Peel Paper


It must have been a different name then. It was ultrastrip or multi strip.. something. It was cold peel paper that was only coated on one side and a bluish color on the other side. I tried some of the hot split. I'm not crazy about it.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

2020 PrintWorks said:


> It must have been a different name then. It was ultrastrip or multi strip.. something. It was cold peel paper that was only coated on one side and a bluish color on the other side. I tried some of the hot split. I'm not crazy about it.



I've never been able to get good result with cold peel. Maybe it's the inks or what ever but either very rough, chunks not adhering properly I've had maybe 5 failure out of thousands of hot peel. Just goes t show how each shop can make diffren things work and nothing is set in stone.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

sben763 said:


> I've never been able to get good result with cold peel. Maybe it's the inks or what ever but either very rough, chunks not adhering properly I've had maybe 5 failure out of thousands of hot peel. Just goes t show how each shop can make diffren things work and nothing is set in stone.


It is. My experience has been the exact opposite. I'm still bummed that they quit making the stuff. I wish I could find someone with a bunch of old stock. I'd buy it all. You could actually use it twice on the same side. I know it wasn't made to work that way but for some reason it did.


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## anubhavtees (Oct 19, 2015)

I have 2 black Light 20w each as my exposure unit 
Can I fit 2 more fluorescent Light(Not black light,normal white light) beside them??


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

anubhavtees said:


> I have 2 black Light 20w each as my exposure unit
> Can I fit 2 more fluorescent Light(Not black light,normal white light) beside them??


Why not. If your wanting to use them as safe light then no. All fluorescent put ot UV light. If this is foe faster exposure just add 2 more unfiltered black lights. IMO even 20x24 screen should have minimum of 4 bulbs.


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## anubhavtees (Oct 19, 2015)

sben763 said:


> Why not. If your wanting to use them as safe light then no. All fluorescent put ot UV light. If this is foe faster exposure just add 2 more unfiltered black lights. IMO even 20x24 screen should have minimum of 4 bulbs.


Actually, i was saying about using 2 uv lights and 2 fluorescent lights for exposing........


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

anubhavtees said:


> Actually, i was saying about using 2 uv lights and 2 fluorescent lights for exposing........


you want even exposure across the screen and fast as possible when dealing with a multi point exposure. Adding standard fluorescents will add very little UV to your exposure. While this part is speculation the fluorescents may disrupt the UV beams.


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## anubhavtees (Oct 19, 2015)

sben763 said:


> you want even exposure across the screen and fast as possible when dealing with a multi point exposure. Adding standard fluorescents will add very little UV to your exposure. While this part is speculation the fluorescents may disrupt the UV beams.


One more question brother
I have bought 4 colour process water based inks by mistake and i don't have enough budget to buy another set of spot colours. I usually don't do CMYK work......So, a question struck my mind that ''Can I mix some percentages of pigment on black process ink to make it as opaque as spot colour inks?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

anubhavtees said:


> One more question brother
> I have bought 4 colour process water based inks by mistake and i don't have enough budget to buy another set of spot colours. I usually don't do CMYK work......So, a question struck my mind that ''Can I mix some percentages of pigment on black process ink to make it as opaque as spot colour inks?


I don't see why not. The only issue could be is over pigment ing for the amount of ink base. With black I don't see much of a issue with black as most are low pigment to begin with. Either that you can print flash print 2-3 times. I have subbed plastisol black process ink before when I ran out of standard plastisol.


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## anubhavtees (Oct 19, 2015)

sben763 said:


> I don't see why not. The only issue could be is over pigment ing for the amount of ink base. With black I don't see much of a issue with black as most are low pigment to begin with. Either that you can print flash print 2-3 times. I have subbed plastisol black process ink before when I ran out of standard plastisol.


What would happen if I over pigment the amount of ink base?Could you suggest me a percentage of pigment to add ?????


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