# My Screen Printer Is Totally Screwing Me Over!



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

My screen printer is totally screwing me. He printed a run for me and went directly against my explicit instructions to print the tag print in a light ink (on 3-oz. white very thin fabric). Instead of consulting me, he changed the ink color to very dark grey, almost black, and the result is that the large tag print is totally readable through the back of the garment. I told him numerous times, and greatly emphasized, that it was of utmost importance that the tag print not show through, and that the ink should be the lightest grey possible. Not only did he change the ink color without consulting me, but after the first tag print, when it was obvious that it showed through, instead of halting the run to consult me, he proceeded with the entire run, ruining every one of the shirts. 

Obviously I was livid and told him that I would not be able to sell those, that it would be damaging to my brand to do so, since it looks like an obvious mistake and that I have poor quality control. I refused to take the defective shirts, and refused to pay for them.

This represents a huge monetary loss to him (he purchased the blank garments). And while I am deeply sympathetic to his plight, I cannot approve of his proposal for a solution: He wants to SELL the defective merchandise online at a drastically reduced price, in direct competition with my (non-defective) shirts. This would make my brand look very bad, and since I just launched my business, I cannot afford to have that defective stock released out to the public. NOR DO I HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO DO SO. I did NOT make any mistake here. He made ALL the mistakes!

Now he has a bunch of lawyers backing him up (I think it's his dad and friends--he's some rich kid from a rich suburb), and he says he'll take me to court if I don't allow him to sell the defective merchandise.

This is really shocking and traumatic for me. I did NOT ask him to complete the entire run of shirts with questionable tag prints on them without consulting me. He decided to do that all on his own. And now he's asking ME to contribute to his recouping his losses by allowing him to damage my brand? He says I don't own my designs (they are all word shirts, but with very unusual fonts and placements and colors, with some backward lettering etc.). I insist that they are my intellectual property, and certainly my logo and website are, and they are printed inside the shirts.

Any suggestions? I'm about to blow my lid. I JUST launched my business a week ago, and THIS is what I have to contend with? I am livid. 

Thanks in advance for any insights you may be able to share...


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

Did you give him a deposit? If not, consider yourself lucky.
How big was the order? How much of "your brand" have you sold?
I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I think you're screwed. Unless you want to hire a lawyer and take him to court, you're screwed. And your assertion that "words on a shirt" comprises some sort of intellectual property is specious. If there were an original drawing on it with the words, you might have something, but usually the only ones who make out in lawsuits are the lawyers.
The kid is a punk, and if that's the way he treats his customers, he won't be in business long. What I would suggest is asking the kid use a spotting gun to blow out the ink and reprint the label in a light color per your original request, at his expense, and you'll buy the shirts as originally agreed on. He gets his money, you get your shirts.
One other thing. Unless he signed a confidential agreement acknowledging your ownership of any designs, you're screwed. And second, if he thinks the design is a seller, what's to keep him from fixing your shirt, then printing up some of his own and selling them? Thirdly, since you say you just launched your brand last week, while you might be on to the next wave to wash over the fashion industry, a la Johnny Cupcakes or Life is Good, everybody and their brother thinks their's is the same thing. Go to mintees.com to see your competition.


----------



## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Were any of your instructions in writing or was it all verbal? If just verbal, it will boil down to he said,she said. Is there any way that something could be put on the outside to cover the tag area? Some sort of design that will compliment the shirt or relate to your business? If that is doable, then approach him with the idea that he does it at his expense since he made the mistake. I feel your pain. Look for another screen printer for your next order


----------



## ericmiata (Jul 9, 2007)

There's more info on the situation in *Raissa8* previous thread:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/general-t-shirt-selling-discussion/t160692.html


----------



## shirts456 (Mar 30, 2011)

OP obviously wants a different outcome. Cut your losses by either taking the product or leaving them.


----------



## TripleSevensCC (Jun 15, 2011)

Since the printer messed up on the printing and you want to avoid him releasing your defective shirts I would tell him to show you the invoice for the blanks and you will pay his cost for the blanks. I would tell him if he excepts you will cut the shirts up in front of him so he doesn't think you are going to turn around a sell these shirts and profit off them. He messed up the printing so he can foot the bill for those costs. 

Tell him you will never deal with him again and after the deal is done tell everyone about your dealing with this kid and he will lose money and have to find another business. He may just need to grow up I started in business at 15 and have learned a whole lot since then.


----------



## shirts456 (Mar 30, 2011)

The printer isn't going to show his costs, that's wishful thinking. Just make a deal for them or let him do what he wants with them (which will probably be nothing) and be finished.


----------



## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

How are things progressing Raisssa


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

Still deciding how to proceed. Still waiting for someone with experience in printing disputes to chime in...


----------



## shirts456 (Mar 30, 2011)

Raissa8 said:


> Still deciding how to proceed. Still waiting for someone with experience in printing disputes to chime in...


You got some already. You aren't going to accept any advice unless it suits you, which is not going to happen. May sound cruel but that's the way it is. Cut your losses and move on.

I read your last thread on this just now. The printer put up all the money for the shirts without a deposit? You'd be very lucky if you don't wind up in court. Good luck.


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

shirts456 said:


> You got some already. You aren't going to accept any advice unless it suits you, which is not going to happen. May sound cruel but that's the way it is. Cut your losses and move on.
> 
> I read your last thread on this just now. The printer put up all the money for the shirts without a deposit? You'd be very lucky if you don't wind up in court. Good luck.


There's a difference between "not hearing advice that suits you" and recognizing that no one is giving me a competent answer. Are you a lawyer? What is your authority on this matter? I'm looking with someone with VALID legal insights and some COMPETENCY, not just "an answer that suits me." Maybe I'm in the wrong place? Do all screen printers think alike? Maybe that's the problem first and foremost. THEY ARE SCREEN PRINTERS, NOT LAWYERS.

Even if I had bought the blank shirts and handed them to him, he has the legal obligation not ruin them and charge me for them! Look, I know that in a any run there could be 1 or 5 misprints, but to misprint the ENTIRE RUN is beyond outrageous. Absolutely no excuse for it.

And I do have my specific instructions to him IN WRITING (in an e-mail) not to use a dark ink on the tag print and not to allow the tag print to show through.

I'd really appreciate it if people could refrain from giving me paternalistic, patronizing answers like, "We've given you your answer, suck it up and move on." It's insulting.

If you don't have anything useful to say, then please don't reply. All I'm looking for in some intelligent insight from someone competent, not people's skewed and misinformed personal opinions.


----------



## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

Well keep talking to him and really try and get somethig worked out.. I'm sure there is another printer around that'll give you a deal to redo them considering what happened with the last printer.

Make sure things like this are discussed ahead of time in the future.

I would take the loss and keep the shirts as rags personally.


----------



## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

I mean I would take the loss as the printer .. I'd freak out as the customer.


----------



## shirts456 (Mar 30, 2011)

Raissa8 said:


> There's a difference between "not hearing advice that suits you" and recognizing that no one is giving me a competent answer. Are you a lawyer? What is your authority on this matter? I'm looking with someone with VALID legal insights and some COMPETENCY, not just "an answer that suits me." Maybe I'm in the wrong place? Do all screen printers think alike? Maybe that's the problem first and foremost. THEY ARE SCREEN PRINTERS, NOT LAWYERS.
> 
> Even if I had bought the blank shirts and handed them to him, he has the legal obligation not ruin them and charge me for them! Look, I know that in a any run there could be 1 or 5 misprints, but to misprint the ENTIRE RUN is beyond outrageous. Absolutely no excuse for it.
> 
> ...


Every opinion you get is going to be personal. Competent or misinformed is another animal. I'm talking from experience since 1987. I'd love to tell you that you have other options... you don't. You're leaving yourself open to a trip to the judge.


----------



## discoqueen (Jun 5, 2010)

Raissa8 said:


> I'm looking with someone with VALID legal insights and some COMPETENCY, not just "an answer that suits me."


Then you need to be talking to a lawyer. Period.


----------



## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

OOOOO just had a good idea... Get something printed on the back that covers the misprint .. A design that compliments the shirt overall.


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

StampedTees said:


> Well keep talking to him and really try and get somethig worked out.. I'm sure there is another printer around that'll give you a deal to redo them considering what happened with the last printer.
> 
> Make sure things like this are discussed ahead of time in the future.
> 
> I would take the loss and keep the shirts as rags personally.


 I discussed these things THOROUGHLY and AD NAUSEAM again and again, days before the printing took place. I KEPT repeating myself, telling him it was of utmost importance that the tags not show, that this is the fashion world and things must be perfect. I thumbed through the Pantone book to choose the exact shade of light gray I wanted--almost white. he assured me again and again that he would do the tags exactly to my specification. And then he pulled this.

I was NOT at all remiss in being clear about my expectations beforehand.

And as far as "taking the loss" goes: You do realize that we are talking to close to a thousand dollars, and I JUST started up. I have no cash flow as of yet.

In business, that's called financial suicide.


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

shirts456 said:


> Every opinion you get is going to be personal. Competent or misinformed is another animal. I'm talking from experience since 1987. I'd love to tell you that you have other options... you don't. You're leaving yourself open to a trip to the judge.


Other printers disagree with you (they've messaged me), so obviously there is no clear consensus.

And I do NOT fear going before a judge at all. Let me at 'em. There is NO way a judge would side with the printer on this one. Absolutely not. I did nothing wrong, and the printer did EVERYTHING wrong by deciding to (a) change the ink color without consulting me, and (b) completing the entire run without consulting me, giving me no chance to intervene.

I really cannot understand how you could POSSIBLY think that I have any liability in this matter.

I don't fear the courts at all when I am absolutely in the right. I say, Bring 'em on.

I am VERY curious as to what logical grounds you are using to form your opinion on this matter?


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

StampedTees said:


> OOOOO just had a good idea... Get something printed on the back that covers the misprint .. A design that compliments the shirt overall.


Thought about that. Considered it. Still might. I just wish you could see it, so you could know just how undoable it might turn out to be. We're talking about fashion shirts you could possible be seeing in MAJOR fashion magazines soon (I'm in talks over that). I cannot screw it up to satisfy some newbie young printers who botched the job badly.

But all option are open right now. I'm just getting increasingly frustrated with their attitude that I OWE them anything at all. And their absolute refusal to be apologetic in any way. They have NEVER admitted wrongdoing, nor apologized for botching the job. ALL they care about is the money, and that has gotten me enraged.

And lawyers cost a LOT of money. When you first started, did you have that kind of money to throw around? (I'm talking about a t-shirt line, not a printing business, but it might still apply.)


----------



## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

Have you trademarked the design / brand name at all?

If so, by selling items in the same sector as your brand and bearing the trademarked name, you would be protected.

Not sure how far copyright goes in this sector.

If you haven't trademarked, I'd apply as soon as you can and protect your brand if you are serious about this particular brand name. In the UK, it's about $450 USD and from memory gives you something like 10 years protection

HTH

Richie


----------



## gerryppg (Jan 29, 2010)

The problem lies in paperwork. Did you sign a sheet that had a sample of the shirt on it along with ink colors and locations specified? If you signed a sheet calling out certain PMS colors and locations then you have some recourse. If not its your word against his.


----------



## gerryppg (Jan 29, 2010)

Another issue I see is you went with "Some young newbie printer". My guess is you shopped by price and price alone and that will always get you in trouble. I cant tell you how many calls I get about people wanting to start their shirt line and want the cheapest possible route. If you want cheap you almost have to expect something to go wrong. Quality=not cheapest.


----------



## Pvasquez (Feb 19, 2011)

If all the printing is perfect and all you have is a bad label print I can remove waterbase ink off a shirt but need to test one, would you just be willing to try it and possibly salvage this job for both of your sanity? If so pm me your email and I will send you the address or look at my signature. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.129700,-117.924885


----------



## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

Do you have pictures of them? If you're crafty enough to come up with these great designs I'm sure you can figure something out with a shoulders addition that will look amazing too.. 

When I said earlier "if it were me I'd take the loss" ... I'm a screen printer, I meant I as a screen printer would take the loss. This is a cost of doing business, if you clearly mess things up you're liable for them and should never expect a customer to pay for your mistakes. Customers are not paying to train you. They're paying you to make quality prints. If you need to be trained go work in someones shop for a while and get trained on the job with a mentor, NOT with other peoples money.


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

I think you're gonna have a hard time suing him for damages since you have no investment in the shirts. If he sells the shirts online and you sue for copyright infringement, those are usually prefaced with a "cease and desist" order. By then he could be done selling and simply agree to comply. He can sue you for breach of contract if there's sufficient written evidence, but then it'll be an "opinion" over the pantone color of the tag before an impartial, hopefully not colorblind, judge. As I said before, only the lawyers make out.
You mentioned elsewhere that you've already listed the shirts on a website, so you might want to post a link so we can see what you're talking about, and maybe offer some advice about an appropriate "patch" for the outside of the tag area.
Everyone throwing around threats of a lawsuit is fruitless. If you had put a deposit down and had clear evidence of his mistake, you might get a judgement, but you've still got to collect. Right now, you've got no skin in the game, other than an assertion of copyright, and until he actually sells or offers something, there's nothing you can make him do. You also assume these designs will be worth something. I'm not trying to burst your bubble, and it appears that you're making an effort to promote these shirts, but, frankly, you might be getting all worked up over nothing. Pay a lawyer, get some legal advice if not satisfaction, and still find out no one wants to buy your shirts.
If you really believe that him unloading the bad prints will damage your brand, pay him for the job, sell the ones that are good, see if someone can offer a suggestion to cover the tag on the bad prints, and move on. If your brand takes off, next time find a printer that will let you do a press proof, not some newbie kid in a garage. If it doesn't, you'll have plenty of shirts to hand out as Christmas/birthday gifts. Apparently, he's made up his mind on how to move forward. You've got to make up yours.


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

Speaking of people selling shirts when they don't own the copyright, I bought my heat press from a guy at a flea market that sold shirts. I told me that he got busted for selling Coca-Cola shirts back during the polar bear theme promotion. Coke sent their thugs to his table and wanted to know how much he'd made selling "their" brand. He told them a couple of hundred bucks, they left with that and the handful of shirts he had on the table. Apparently, Coke didn't think it was worth the hassle of hauling some greasy-haired guy from Podunk into court to try and bleed him out of money he probably didn't have anyway, and Coke likely has attorneys on retainer.
Sometimes settling and learning from the experience is the cheapest way out all around.


----------



## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

With that said, we are not lawyers, just a bunch of Apparel Decorators, and the best advice is to consult an attorney that can provide the answers to your questions. Most Attorney's will give you a free consultation so don't think about the cost at this point. The answers you get from the Attorney should give you an idea on which way to proceed.
Yes the printer made the mistake in using the wrong color for the tag, but the printer is also the only one with something invested here as he purchased the shirts. (Rookie....no way a seasoned printer does that. He bought the shirts and printed them without getting a cent from the customer. SMH) What you are trying to do is stop him from selling an item which he paid for, because you think it would be in direct competition with you. But what if he just gives them away? That would still be bad for your brand........I say first thing tomorrow morning call up an Attorney...many of them will answer your questions right over the phone.

Good luck with it all!


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

gerryppg said:


> Another issue I see is you went with "Some young newbie printer". My guess is you shopped by price and price alone and that will always get you in trouble. I cant tell you how many calls I get about people wanting to start their shirt line and want the cheapest possible route. If you want cheap you almost have to expect something to go wrong. Quality=not cheapest.


You're absolutely right, and I learned a huge lesson. I chose them primarily because they were not backed up and could get to my order right away, while all the other printers in my area are in high demand and couldn't get to my order till mid-August.

Lesson learned. I'll never go with newbies again!


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

tpitman: I'm not looking to sue anyone. I just want to stop them from selling my defective merchandise. But thanks for all your input!


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

I sympathize with you. It sucks when something like this happens, and you pretty much have no recourse. Part of doing business sometimes.


----------



## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

I have not seen a post where the number of shirts is discussed, how many shirts are we talking about? 

I'm a printer that guarantees everything is right, I personally would replace with no cost to you. But on the other hand this would not have happened. Let him sell the shirts under a condition that he either removes your company information or prints over it. (the shirts will only look worse so good luck selling them) As far as the image on the front, you can't copyright words, but you can copyright the way a word is written. If you did not do this than good luck with the copyright angle. Did you create the artwork for this job or did the printer do it for you? If he did it for you, than he has the copyright. It belongs to the creator. My artist had to sign a piece paper that everything he creates for me while working for me belongs to my company and we have unlimited rights to such designs. 

I understand your predicament, but the bottom line for me is time is money and the amount of time you will put into this and the amount of stress your going through may not be worth it. You could lose at the end and you went through this for nothing. Several years ago I lost $25,000 because a customer screwed me. The end result is that if I took him to court the judge would rule in my favor but he had no means of paying me back so why go through it if the end result is no money. Lesson learned so I went on with my life. 

I know your pissed and want satisfaction. While your protecting your name, he doesn't care about his. If your not taking the shirts from him, make sure he removes your name from the label regardless of what he does with the shirts.

Good luck


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

mikelmorgan: I created everything from scratch. I own the work.

But no matter. I threatened him that if he goes ahead and sells my work, I will conduct a negative PR campaign against him and go to all of the alternative papers and artists' communities in our area AND online and tell everyone everything that happened, with complete factual accuracy. No one will ever trust him again. I haven't heard from him since. Haha!

I think I'll take it a step further and have him sign a non-compete and non-disclose agreement. He's a rich lawyer's kid, 23 years old, and is arrogant as hell. He needs to be taught a lesson. The media and public opinion are far more powerful than the courts.

Thanks for your input!


----------



## shirts456 (Mar 30, 2011)

Raissa8 said:


> mikelmorgan: I created everything from scratch. I own the work.
> 
> But no matter. I threatened him that if he goes ahead and sells my work, I will conduct a negative PR campaign against him and go to all of the alternative papers and artists' communities in our area AND online and tell everyone everything that happened, with complete factual accuracy. No one will ever trust him again. I haven't heard from him since. Haha!
> 
> ...


And the "rich lawyer father" is going to sit back and let you do this without repercussion.


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

How many of the bad shirts are you talking about? You've never indicated how much of a hit you'll take if you buy them.
The kid may be arrogant, but the nut doesn't fall far from the tree, and if his old man is a lawyer, I'll guarantee the kid comes by it honestly.


----------



## J Alexander (Apr 12, 2011)

I would stray away from the slander campaign especially online because it's a super easy to track and it doesn't make you look any better either. I understand the situation, however remember your own reputation as well. Or better yet, get yourself a lawyer and fight fire with fire.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

How about you have the printer cover the cost of retagging the shirts.


----------



## Smckee21 (Jul 23, 2010)

Hello, I read through this thread and didn't see how many shirts were in this entire run? Also did you supply your printer with any pantone colors for him to match the gray ink to? Or did your e-mail just say "Don't use a dark ink" These are some of the things left open to interpretation.

Also, does your printer have any sort of return policy in place? This is something to look at to see what your rights are.


----------



## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

Still have not seen the number of shirts. Is there a reason we are not hearing this number?


----------



## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

mikelmorgan said:


> Still have not seen the number of shirts. Is there a reason we are not hearing this number?


Sure starting to seem like it isn't it?


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

The Smell Test: not passing.


----------



## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

I'm guessing from reading the HUGE Problem With My Printer! post, that we are talking about 200 shirts maybe. It's amazing how much time people have spent on problems like this. This is exactly why I guarantee everything in my shop. I also make sure my customer signs everything in my shop. They must count every shirt before they leave the building with the garments so they can't call me 2 days later and tell me I shorted them 5 shirts. If this deal would have gone well we would not have heard about it at all. I hope you find resolution. Good luck.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm still wondering why they just arent retagged? The labels arent printed directly on the shirts according to the OP.


----------



## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

As a printer, if my customer ordered 200 shirts, and the ink color and specific directions concerning the print were in writing, and we printed the wrong color, and the outcome wasn't to our customers expectations, then we screwed up. It will come out of our pocket. The printer is trying to recoup his costs by selling something that sounds like it belongs to the OP, IP is not as gray as it used to be. No way in hell we'd try to sell our customers shirts that they weren't happy with, regardless of the design and who it belonged to. It's crazy to think that any decent screen printer would try that. You need to protect your IP however possible legally and try and make this guy see how he's accountable and not you. Even if he bought the shirts he's still responsible for giving you a product that you wanted or he doesn't get paid. He should be reprinting the shirts and selling them to you and that would be the best way to recoup some of the money lost by screwing up the print in the first place. It sounds cut and dried to me, if this scenario happened exactly like the OP says and I printed the shirts then I would replace the shirts and move on.


----------



## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

This is an unusually interesting thread.
There's an excellent reason it's called "contract printing"

Raissa: Remember, a lot of the less friendly answers will come from the opposite side of the fence. I don't know of any printers who haven't screwed up a big order. It's unfortunate the one you chose was unwilling to stand behind their word. I can assure you there are plenty of printers who will.

Best of luck on your line!


----------



## abun (Jan 5, 2010)

Raissa, i felt sympathise for you, im gonna start my own brand too soon, i hope you will get to solve this issue and proceed to making nice tshirts. Good luck!


----------



## abun (Jan 5, 2010)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I'm still wondering why they just arent retagged? The labels arent printed directly on the shirts according to the OP.


I think its printed on the shirts.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I dont think so.....". He printed a run for me adirectly against my explicit instructions to print the tag print in a light ink (on 3-oz. white very thin fabric)".

Maybe so if the tees are the white thin 3oz fabric.


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

I can't believe how many replies I've gotten in just 24 hours! There's no "reason" that no number was given. I think I gave it in another thread. The number is probably close to 90 shirts, 70 of which were over $9 apiece, the others about $7 or $8 (very nice, fashion-forward shirts) I think, and the printer bought them all upfront. That might not seem like a lot to some people, but remember, I JUST launched my site a couple weeks ago, and I have NO funding to spare. This all came out of my savings, with NO wiggle room. And this printer kid just started out as well, so he claims not to have that kind of cash to lose, but they just moved into a HUGE storefront with 2-story ceilings on the main artsy strip of town, so it's hard to believe he's in a worse financial position than I am.

I'm not afraid of lawyers. I come from a legal family as well. And remember, OJ had a team of expensive lawyers telling him all sorts of B.S., but that didn't make him right. And he's in jail now. And if those jury members hadn't been complete cretins, he'd have gone to jail in '94. So lawyer B.S. means nothing to me.

Pantone color: I actually thumbed through his Pantone color swatch book and pointed to the EXACT shade of grey I wanted. No ambiguity.

Slander? How is telling the EXACT truth slander? That's what journalism is all about. Alerting the public to the facts. And if it goes to court, this will ALL be a matter of public record, so the information will be out there anyway. All I'll do is alert the press of its existence.


And retagging the shirts won't solve the problem. Those are MY designs and they have NO right to them, period. I'll go to my congressperson and have the legislation rewritten if needed.


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

The labels are printed directly on the shirts and show very clearly through the back, with the size in large type. NO ONE wants the size of their shirt being read through the fabric! Can you imagine a woman advertising to the world that she's an Extra Large? Don't think so.


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

A couple of things. The label was printed on the inside of the collar. The "show-through" is the beef. Secondly, most jobs are quoted in such a way that if the printer screws up, he's got enough profit in the job to cover the cost of the reprints. He may only break even on the job, but at least he doesn't screw the customer and leave bad feelings.
Still, there are unanswered questions from the OP regarding the number of shirts in question.


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

tpitman said:


> A couple of things. The label was printed on the inside of the collar. The "show-through" is the beef. Secondly, most jobs are quoted in such a way that if the printer screws up, he's got enough profit in the job to cover the cost of the reprints. He may only break even on the job, but at least he doesn't screw the customer and leave bad feelings.
> Still, there are unanswered questions from the OP regarding the number of shirts in question.



Just said about 90. People are acting like this is an FBI case. We're talking about $800 to $1000 here. I started with low quantities to test the market. I just don't have that kind of cash to spare, and even if I did, why should I? The screwup was ALL theirs. This is NOT my problem at all. I did nothing wrong.


----------



## kissfan76 (Jul 4, 2010)

Ok so the printer just started out and he spent money on the tshirts etc. And you as the customer are not happy cause of the label showing through the back and refuse to purchase said item(s) due to unsatisfactory workmanship. I'm not a lawyer but in my eyes from doing other printing I would have to say the printer should eat the cost and just redo them to your satisfactory. When i printed things for people (not customers) I would have them send me the item back and I would send a replacement. Customers always right. Now is there a way he could wash out the label ink and just redo it or is he just being a complete stubborn kid?


----------



## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

I agree the printer should replace the garments, period. But what did you learn, I lose business to customers often that choose the cheaper printer. I have been in business for almost 17 years. I know what I'm doing, my prices are competitive but not the cheapest. As far as your brand is concerned 100 shirt won't ruin your brand. As far as the printer selling your shirts, as long as they have your business name on them, absolutely not. Tell him he can do what ever he wants to do as long as your name is removed from them. Good luck.


----------



## shirts456 (Mar 30, 2011)

Make a deal with him. You pay him 1/2 the worth of the job ( a deposit this time perhaps?) and have him redo it. See if he goes for it. Should he agree to this, have him write up a delivery guarantee so you don't feel that he's going to take your money and not deliver the new set. Is that to your liking?


----------



## Raissa8 (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm just finding a new printer. I'll let him solve his own problems. Why would I trust him to print new shirts? Even some of the ones that I kept out of the goodness of my heart are unsatisfactory. The label is slanted or much lower than it should be, the labels don;t look consistent at all in their placement, some of the labels are smudged--I'm wearing a few, gave some to my friends. I definitely lost money in that I paid for shirts that I won't sell. 

This kid needs to stick to what he knows and not try to do fashion brands. The standards in fashion are much higher than in musicians' and artists' shirts, which is what he usually does.

I only chose him because I needed them right away, and he had the freest schedule.

Lesson learned.

Anyway, I'm close to signing my first retail deal, so I'm really concentrating on that for now.


----------



## kissfan76 (Jul 4, 2010)

Raissa8 said:


> I'm just finding a new printer. I'll let him solve his own problems. Why would I trust him to print new shirts? Even some of the ones that I kept out of the goodness of my heart are unsatisfactory. The label is slanted or much lower than it should be, the labels don;t look consistent at all in their placement, some of the labels are smudged--I'm wearing a few, gave some to my friends. I definitely lost money in that I paid for shirts that I won't sell.
> 
> This kid needs to stick to what he knows and not try to do fashion brands. The standards in fashion are much higher than in musicians' and artists' shirts, which is what he usually does.
> 
> ...


Thats a way to look at it. Leave int he past look to the present and the future.


----------

