# Printing red on Black T's



## Kysmiley1 (Jul 14, 2007)

Can anyone offer any tips for using red ink on black t-shirts. I did a few but the red is not as bright as I would like. Would I have to use a white under base to give me the color red i am looking for? Could I use a sliver for the under base instead of white? (I hate white ink)
Pat


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Use white or grey.Silvers awful pricey for a base.Just choke your base so its a little smaller and you won't see the base with proper registration.Since they took the lead out of red inks , paints and dyes.It has made it harder to work with.Union ink makes a maxopaque bright red thats great.I use it on all my dark prints.


----------



## Kysmiley1 (Jul 14, 2007)

So if I use the Maxopake red, do I still need the under base coat?


----------



## Smokestack (Aug 4, 2008)

its my experience that even with maxo ink, u will still need to use a white underlay on black shirts to get that red to pop the way you want it to


----------



## Kysmiley1 (Jul 14, 2007)

Thanks Smokestack, its not what I wanted to hear but if I have to I will. It will turn this four screen job into six screens now. Oh well wish me luck on this one
Pat


----------



## Smokestack (Aug 4, 2008)

if you are printing on black shirts with more colors than just red, you should consider using that base white screen to go under all other colors as well.. the print will look better


----------



## Kysmiley1 (Jul 14, 2007)

Thats true. I am using a shimmering silver. It is a silver with a glitter in it. We have already used it directly on black and it looked good. I would think it could only look better with a white base. I just need to find one that is not as thick as the union maxopake lowbleed white.
Pat


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

I haven't used Union white.only wilflex extreme white.Set your white on top of the dryer.The heat will loosen up the viscosity and it makes it a little easier to work with.And yes,a base under the silver makes it pop a little more without having to use as much silver.


----------



## savagecat45 (Jun 17, 2008)

depending on what other colors you have in your design-- a yellow underbase would work as well.. or any other light color.


----------



## stooky.design (Mar 13, 2008)

i prefer white as base when printing on any dark t-shirt...not only black..


----------



## southtexasshirts (Jul 21, 2007)

so you use white undercoat- then flash dry- then print your other colors on top of white? thanks


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Yes, as the person said before you can use a lighter color like yellow but white has a better reflective color to the human eye.


----------



## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

I picked up a bunch of literature from Union ink at the SGIA show. I just ordered their sample pack of their Maxopake Ink. For direct printing on dark shirts. You get Gold, Red, Blue, and Green for $58 postage paid. Pretty nice deal.

You can order a multitude of sample packs and start up kits directly from Union Ink at their American office. They even ask you if you'd like to switch some of the colors.

I'm financing a Pony Xprs. With equipment I could try using a white underbase.

If the Union Maxopake works good, I'll probably stick with that for one color stuff at least. Once I get into multiple colors on a dark shirt and have the appropriate software and whatnot, I'll try some white underbases.

Excaliber Ink had a selection on concert T-shirts. All black T's with white underbases. Each one had just the white underbase printed on the back, so you could see what it looked like. It was pretty badass to look at. They reminded me of my concert t-shirts from the 90's.


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Yep Kyle the maxopaques rock!Been usin em for many happy years.


----------



## 2 iLL Clothing (Sep 26, 2008)

if you are just doing one color prints. if it is red on black shirts. do a couple of layers, the red should pop out. remember to flashing between the layers.


----------



## shersher (Jul 25, 2007)

I was curious about the union ink as well, so flashing with no white underbase on darks works pretty well?


----------



## 2 iLL Clothing (Sep 26, 2008)

yes specially if its a small order and you dont want to do another frame. just do a base with red. n then red on top of that red and it should come out. just remember to register exactly or else you will have a shadow. always flash in between.


----------



## suzette70 (Dec 19, 2007)

I just did a job using the red and yellow union inks on black. I did 2 layers, flashing in between and the colors look great! I'm not an expert by any means, but I was very pleased. 

Suzette70


----------



## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

For what it's worth, a white underbase will ALWAYS make the colors brighter. I started out with the pantone mixing system from Union using Mixopake colors, and if I had it to do over, I'd use their regular mixing colors. For an easy-to-print underbase, try Union Bright Cotton White (not to be used on 50/50's) or QCM's 158LB Glacier White.


----------



## stooky.design (Mar 13, 2008)

tpitman said:


> For what it's worth, a white underbase will ALWAYS make the colors brighter. I started out with the pantone mixing system from Union using Mixopake colors, and if I had it to do over, I'd use their regular mixing colors. For an easy-to-print underbase, try Union Bright Cotton White (not to be used on 50/50's) or QCM's 158LB Glacier White.


yes...i agree that white as base will make the red more pop-up...


----------



## 2 iLL Clothing (Sep 26, 2008)

that is the best white you can use.


----------



## torodesigns (Jun 24, 2007)

Yeah . . I have use the QCM line for underbase. Also, if the ink is made for opaque usually print flash print and it should stand out without the white underbase. Goodluck


----------



## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

I just got my Maxopake sample pack.

I had been trying to print a red image on black shirts. I have Lawson Rojo Red. The color shirts I have tried it on are white, yellow, smoke, and black. It looks awesome on white and yellow, but horrible on everything else.

With the Maxopake red. First I did a print on a black test pellon. Compared to my old red it was like night a day.

The ink is extremely creamy and easy to print with. It looked like it had already been freshly stirred when I opened the lid. I was afraid it was going to be like white ink and hard to work with, but that is not the case.

Now with black t-shirts it still didn't come out quite what I'd like, but still far better with my previous red.

I tweaked it out some, but doing one very heavy layer, flash, then a lighter layer. It looks great from a distance, but up close it has a rough, shiny looks too it. 

In a month I'll have a conveyor dryer and I plan to try the Union Plasticharge. I'm hoping to get the kind of red on black I really want with that.

Now as far as dark colors lighter than black I had really great results. I did some prints on a smoke colored shirt, print, flash, print and I liked the outcome better than black.

I also tried a dark green shirt and it looked really good with only one pass. The old red looked ghastly even with print/flash/print. This was encouraging, because as soon as my new frames come, I'm going to do a print on the green shirts with Union Maxopake Golden Yellow.


----------



## squeegee (Sep 15, 2008)

Kysmiley1 said:


> Thats true. I am using a shimmering silver. It is a silver with a glitter in it. We have already used it directly on black and it looked good. I would think it could only look better with a white base. I just need to find one that is not as thick as the union maxopake lowbleed white.
> Pat


glitter may actually look better without an underbase


----------



## Wesnprint (Oct 17, 2008)

Shrink your underbase a couple of pixils and you should be fine.


----------



## Locklear (Nov 24, 2006)

I'll be honest with you...I personally hate the Union inks, but I have used Maxopake red in the past. I screened lots of black tees using red ink and no underbase. It was possibly not as bright as it would of been, but everyone was very happy with the result and opacity of the prints.

Of course I had to print/flash/print to make it work.


----------



## adawg2252 (Dec 12, 2007)

If you're looking for a good White ink you should check out Wilflex Bright Tiger. In my opinion it's easier to work with than the Extreme White (which I've subbed out for when the Tiger is out of stock). Buffalo White is also pretty good, but not as "bright" as the Tiger is.

As for reds, Wilflex has National Red and Super Drake Red (it's Super Opaque for darks.) You still have to use an underbase to get the POP from the red, but the super opaque colors from Wilflex look ten times better than the standard Genesis colors with a white underbase.


----------



## Locklear (Nov 24, 2006)

I use the Bright Tiger too. I can vouch for the Drake red as well.


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

I use Wilflex whites but over the last 10 years the quality has greatly diminished.The inks turn to soup and can't maintain any body.I started with Wilflex 25 years ago and my customers are requesting the Union Maxopaque because they don't like the shiney look of the Wilflex.


----------



## adawg2252 (Dec 12, 2007)

INKFREAK said:


> they don't like the shiney look of the Wilflex.


Have you ever used the Wilflex MX series? They are matte colors. It's wilflex's PANTONE mixing system, so there are only 14 colors, but they aren't as glossy as the standard genesis series.

As to the "soupy" comment about the inks I've been using the Wilflex for over 15 years (not nearly as long as you, but still long enough) and i've never had an issue with the inks. I always mix the inks up before I put them into the screen before using them anyways, but I go through the ink pretty fast so it's never really sitting on the shelf, in order to avoid any "old" ink. But as my friend always says, "it is what it is" so who knows. Could be a multitude of reasons.


----------



## kylerogers (Jul 30, 2008)

What mesh count did you use?



suzette70 said:


> I just did a job using the red and yellow union inks on black. I did 2 layers, flashing in between and the colors look great! I'm not an expert by any means, but I was very pleased.
> 
> Suzette70


----------



## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

Andrew, I have a auto so the ink doesn't sit for long.I do both manual and auto.I only mix for pantone matches as I need them.If Wilflex went back to the quality they had many years ago I might consider it.The proof is in the puddin as they say.So my customers have no idea what brand I'am using. I go based on the comments they make.


----------

