# Getting quotes for new DTG machines



## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

In the process of getting quotes for a new DTG machine. I've been on the fence about it for years and I've finally decided to make the investment!

So far I've requested quotes and samples for the Epson f2100, the Omniprint 330tx plus and the DTG G4. I'd like to stay under $20,000 for a full package including pretreat machine, heatpress and supplies if possible. Any other DTG machines worth looking at that I forgot?

For a while I was looking at the NeoFlex 800 but I can't seem to find it for sale. Has it been discontinued or something?

A few things most important to me when choosing a DTG; Quality and consistency of print, ease of maintenance for machine, and work flow (a printer that gives me the ability to prepare a print while the machine is in the process of printing that way when its done I can quickly swap out shirt to reduce down time).

Also looking to purchase a pretreat machine. I have my eye on the Pearl Elite. Any feedback or other recommendations would be helpful. Looking for a unit that is closed to ensure 0 over spray.

Also looking to purchase a heatpress. Kind of leaning towards a air one that will open and close on its own. Was thinking either Hotronix Air Fusion or the Geo Knight Air operated swinger. Any feedback on which would be helpful.

I already have an econo red 2 dryer from vastex. Do you think that will be best for drying / curing the pretreat and print? Or would you recomment using a heatpress? Probably going to purchase a new heat press but I do have an older model 16 x 20 hix heatpress, would that be suitable or for best results should I go with a new heat press as well?

Thanks for any help and feedback.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> So far I've requested quotes and samples for the Epson f2100, the Omniprint 330tx plus and the DTG G4.


What you will see on these samples is the skill of the operator, and NOT the print quality of the machines.



tkster95 said:


> A few things most important to me when choosing a DTG; Quality and consistency of print, ease of maintenance for machine,


The Epson f2100 will be the easiest to maintain, but has the most expensive inks.
Everything else is operator dependent.



tkster95 said:


> I already have an econo red 2 dryer from vastex. Do you think that will be best for drying / curing the pretreat and print? Or would you recomment using a heatpress?


Combining the two works best. Cure in the dryer, and post-cure with the heat press.



tkster95 said:


> Probably going to purchase a new heat press but I do have an older model 16 x 20 hix heatpress


It will do just fine.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

Thanks for the info TABOB. 

How much do you think the rip software plays a role in final print? 

At a trade show a while back I saw the 330tx plus, f2100 as well as the genesis from belquette. I remember the 330tx plus and genesis stood out as the best. I wonder if the epson along with an aftermarket rip like Kothari would be as good or better that the 330tx and genesis?

I mentioned the genesis because I remember reading that codesi bought out belquette and are still working with the designer so I'm hoping the G4 will be similar in print quality to the genesis. Because of that and the vacuum platen I really like the looks of that machine. Although I'm worried that it has 4 print heads! Does that mean 4 times the cost for a breakdown? Or could it mean if one head breaks down the other 3 will pick up the slack and still print full quality? (wishful thinking on that lats one lol).

I like the 330tx plus because of the wet capping and because you don't have to shake the white ink (I think I remember reading that?). Because of that I got the impression that this machine would be the easiest to maintain. You mentioned that the epson is the easiest, could you elaborate on that? I don't like that it has a smaller print area though.

I like epson because its a large company, which makes me feel like that would be the safest bet. I also met a few people in real life who had the f2100 and they seemed happy with it. Its also the cheapest. Because of all that I was kind of leaning towards the epson. However, I just got a quote for the g4 and they aren't that far off in price so now I'm not sure what to do. 

The f2100 and g4 quotes are good till the end of the month, which is only 7 days away. Problem is I won't even receive the samples till early to mid next week, meaning I'll only have a couple days to make the decision after seeing the samples. Seems like a short deadline.

I'm curious, how loud are these machines? Do they make a lot of noise while not in use... doing cycles, internal fans or anything like that? It will be in my house so I'm hoping it doesn't keep me up at night lol.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> Although I'm worried that it has 4 print heads! Does that mean 4 times the cost for a breakdown? Or could it mean if one head breaks down the other 3 will pick up the slack and still print full quality? (wishful thinking on that lats one lol).


I don't know much about the G4 but that's not likely to be the case.
Replacing a single printhead module will probably be much cheaper than replacing the one piece printhead on the f2100.
Neither is a big problem if you can keep the printer busy. If you print 10,000 shirts per printhead the cost will be around 20c per shirt.
You man not get more than that if you print large areas with white ink... so add this in your pricing. In CMYK mode you can get 30,000 easy.



tkster95 said:


> I like the 330tx plus because of the wet capping and because you don't have to shake the white ink (I think I remember reading that?). Because of that I got the impression that this machine would be the easiest to maintain.


Marketing BS... 
This printer is regular Epson printer converted to DTG.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's not a unicorn.



tkster95 said:


> How much do you think the rip software plays a role in final print?


There are differences for some types of prints, but it's mostly a matter of preference.
You prefer Adobe Illustrator or CorelDRAW type of thing...



tkster95 said:


> I like epson because its a large company, which makes me feel like that would be the safest bet. I also met a few people in real life who had the f2100 and they seemed happy with it. Its also the cheapest. Because of all that I was kind of leaning towards the epson. However, I just got a quote for the g4 and they aren't that far off in price so now I'm not sure what to do.


If I had to choose between the the three, I'd go for the G4 because I've not tried it and it looks good on paper.
Still, I think the F2100 is the easiest printer to use and maintain, and it's the cheapest.


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

As for the 330 PLUS, the "plus" part of the equation is that it can print on polyester. If you're not going to print on poly, you can opt for the non-plus model which should be cheaper.

As for the F2100, I don't think that it will be running all night since it can be stored for extended periods after running the correct cleaning cycle. Also, this would easily be the best for you if you're going to go a few days/weeks without using the machine.

The other machine that you haven't listed as one you're looking at is the Brother GTX. Comparable to the F2100, but not exactly the same.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

DrivingZiggy said:


> As for the 330 PLUS, the "plus" part of the equation is that it can print on polyester. If you're not going to print on poly, you can opt for the non-plus model which should be cheaper.


This is not true.
There is nothing stopping you buying the cheaper model and use the "Gamut Plus" or "Image Armor E Series" Inks.
The ink and pretreatment is what makes the difference, not the printer.




DrivingZiggy said:


> As for the F2100, I don't think that it will be running all night since it can be stored for extended periods after running the correct cleaning cycle. Also, this would easily be the best for you if you're going to go a few days/weeks without using the machine.


All DTG printers can stay inactive for a couple of days, but this should not be a regular occurrence.
For long periods of inactivity the ink lines should be filled with flushing solution, and again this apply to all DTG printers.
Doing this with the F2100 is really easy, but will waste a lot of expensive ink.
If you have an Omniprint or any other bulk ink printer, you can save that ink by pouring it back in the bottle.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

I just received samples from codesi for the f2100 and g4. The samples came much quicker than I expected. 

The f2100 loos good but mann... the G4 looks great. I have some more samples coming from other dealers of the f2100 so I'm curious how those compare. Also waiting on the 330tx plus sample. 

The G4 is going to be tough to beat. The print quality plus the vacuum platen, I'm really liking the looks of that machine. 

Last night I came across a new product call the OneStep by the makers of the PTM machine distributed by codesi. The OneStep applies / dries pretreat and cures the printed image all in one unit using a similar vacuum platen to the G4. It looks to be a real game changer, assuming it works like they suggest. However, price may pretty high, sounds like they haven't decided on final price yet. Looks like its coming out in 2021 too. I'm brand new to DTG (been screen printing for 10 years) and would love to get into it without having to deal with all the headaches that can potentially come from pretreat and curing. Has anyone heard of the OneStep and any word on when it will be released?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

tkster95 said:


> The f2100 loos good but mann... the G4 looks great. I have some more samples coming from other dealers of the f2100 so I'm curious how those compare.


Get back to us after you've done at least 10 wash tests.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

Splathead.. I would, but my washing machine broke lol. I was going to replace it, but now that I've decided on a DTG, I've realized the room where I keep my washer and dryer is the perfect spot for the new DTG. Looks like I'll be going to the laundromat for the foreseeable future.

What do you think the wash tests will uncover? I plan on getting a couple cycles done over the weekend so I'll post how they hold up. The epson looks really good but G4 is def the winner to start with. I know it was printed with a pro rip software while the epson was most likely done with garment creator. I still wonder what the epson would look like with the Kothari rip. I asked AA that carries that product to send a sample so hopefully they're able to.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

tkster95 said:


> What do you think the wash tests will uncover?


Level of fading.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> What do you think the wash tests will uncover? I plan on getting a couple cycles done over the weekend so I'll post how they hold up. The epson looks really good but G4 is def the winner to start with.


Don't be naive... if it was that easy everybody would be doing it.
In DTG looks are deceiving, and producing perfect looking prints for demonstration is really easy. Producing prints capable of surviving in the washer is a different story.
You will find out about this once you try printing yourself. DTG has a steep learning curve, and a lot of testing is involved. 

To begin with, each fabric will need different amounts of pretreatment and print settings.
Here is an example database FIREBIRD GTX™ T-Shirt Matrix
Notice how even the color of the fabric (same shirt model) affects the printability and the settings.
You cannot use these by the way, because settings will vary depending on environmental conditions, consumables, and the equipment used.
You will need a washing machine.


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

TABOB said:


> This is not true.
> There is nothing stopping you buying the cheaper model and use the "Gamut Plus" or "Image Armor E Series" Inks.
> The ink and pretreatment is what makes the difference, not the printer.


DTG noob considering a 330tx or 330tx plus


FatPrints said:


> --Other than the ability to print on dark poly, what differentiates the 330tx plus from the 330tx? How do the new gamut inks compare to the dupont inks (look, washability etc)? How much better is the print resolution, if at all? Is the 330tx plus easier to use with less maintenance issues?
> 
> - From what I've gathered, they are basically the same machines, and though I haven't used the dupont inks, I can say the Gamut inks are pretty top notch. Both Machines have the same ability to print quality wise, but yeah, the plus can run the Gamut inks for Poly.


Although the information that I passed on may not be true/may no longer be true, that is how it is marketed. It was also the defining feature described in Omniprint's webinar that I attended ~a year ago.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

DrivingZiggy said:


> that is how it is marketed. It was also the defining feature described in Omniprint's webinar that I attended ~a year ago.


The usual marketing/sales deception to grab some extra money. Both printers have the same printhead and ink system.
You can use that ink on any Epson conversion, and the same apply for the Image Armor ink.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

TABOB said:


> Don't be naive... if it was that easy everybody would be doing it.
> In DTG looks are deceiving, and producing perfect looking prints for demonstration is really easy. Producing prints capable of surviving in the washer is a different story.
> You will find out about this once you try printing yourself. DTG has a steep learning curve, and a lot of testing is involved.
> 
> ...


How am I being naive? I never said it was easy. Its sounds difficult and expensive. That's why I've been contemplating it for so long.

From what I heard, the Kodak ink in the G4 can only be used with their brand pretreat. Can any users of the G4 comment on their experience with the ink/pretreat? 

I'll be using the machine to print my own line and I offer a very limited selection of style / color combos. I'm hoping to dial those in and have some consistency from there. 

Obviously I'd like to do without any of the pretreat headaches. That's why I'm interested in the OneStep from PTM. Has anyone heard of it?


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> How am I being naive?


All I'm saying is that the wash test is the most important part.
Producing a nice looking print is really easy by using too much pretreatment, but it will not survive the wash.



tkster95 said:


> From what I heard, the Kodak ink in the G4 can only be used with their brand pretreat.


Looks like the company is going backwards with this printer... moving from bulk ink to to a cartridge based system.
I don't like this personally. I want the freedom to choose the ink myself, and I'm guessing this is why people still buy the Omniprint.
The F2100 is cartridge based as well, but refill kits are available.



tkster95 said:


> I'll be using the machine to print my own line and I offer a very limited selection of style / color combos. I'm hoping to dial those in and have some consistency from there.


This is a good idea, and what I usually recommend as well.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

Working on getting the wash tests done. I'm now understanding the need for a washer, lol. I went ahead and ordered one.

When selling a DTG print to a customer do you give them any special washing instructions? What are your expectations for washability of a DTG print? Do you think a print on dark cotton should be able to handle hot water wash and high dry?


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

The epson samples on dark shirts survived, some up to 10 washes, on hot / high.

One of the samples, printed using an aftermarket rip, had a bit of cracking in one area of the print (that sample has only had 4 wash tests so far). Not sure what to make of that. Could the aftermarket rips reduce washability? (I know they give you the ability to lay down less ink, wonder if that has a negative effect)

The G4 didn't hold up well. Began to crack / deteriorate after 2 washes and after 6 was cracked all over.

After multiple washes didn't think the samples of prints on white shirts looked good from either printer. A white shirt with epson print using the aftermarket rip held up the best though.

Still haven't gotten a sample from the 330tx plus.

Do you think the G4 sample was a fluke? When I asked the rep they said that I should wash inside out on cold. Does that sound normal? Can a G4 print not handle washing in normal conditions (hot water, high heat)? The offer they gave me expires in a couple days and I won't be able to get any new samples to test in the mean time... can't fathom spending that kind of money on something that won't wash in normal conditions. Disappointed because after seeing the G4 print before the test I really want that machine.

Can any users of the G4 comment on washability?


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> Could the aftermarket rips reduce washability? (I know they give you the ability to lay down less ink, wonder if that has a negative effect)


That's exactly what is happening.
DTG printing is done by balancing the amounts of ink and pretreatment.
Using less pretreatment and compensating with more ink will produce durable prints.
The problem is that ink is expensive, and apparently even the large POD companies are trying to use as little as possible.



tkster95 said:


> The G4 didn't hold up well. Began to crack / deteriorate after 2 washes and after 6 was cracked all over.


I cannot vouch for whatever ink the G4 is using because I've not tried it, but all the known ink brands I've tested so far work well when cured correctly.



tkster95 said:


> When I asked the rep they said that I should wash inside out on cold. Does that sound normal?


These "standard wash instructions" are just an easy excuse.
Well made DTG shirts can be washed print-side out and in regular wash settings.
The problem is that things can and do go wrong really easy in DTG, and you will always get random defects.
Some defects are noticeable but others will not be, and washing the shirt is the the only way to tell for sure.
How do you explain this to a customer? The best option is not to do so, and use the "_inside out, cold water, mild detergent_" excuse instead.
Pretend you are not aware of any defect in your product and refund or replace... or whatever.



tkster95 said:


> The offer they gave me expires in a couple days


I wouldn't worry about this.
The offer will probably be valid even a month later, "because you are a special customer" or something like that.


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## BBProd (Oct 29, 2008)

Personally I would not purchase a DTG printer that is a conversion..._unless_ you are one of those people who are technically/mechanically/electronically inclined (like Sensei TABOB) & are willing to put the time in when things go sideways.

The Epson F2100 has one huge advantage over other printers, from what I've read & been told: a 5 year bumper-to-bumper warranty that even covers the print head. The 1st year's warranty is included with your purchase & each successive year's warranty costs just under $2,000, turning a $14,000 printer into a $22,000 printer, but if you're printing enough shirts to cover that cost, and you shouldn't be buying a DTG printer if you _aren't_ going to be printing like a madman, then that extra cost should be easy enough to justify.

You could probably save some money running Image Armor inks through your F2100.

One thing about the F2100 that makes me cringe a bit is the platens appear to be bloody expensive.

As for pretreating, I've had a few conversations with Brian Walker about his open designs & he swears that overspray is not a problem. I have one of his pretreaters & I have to agree: I don't see any evidence of overspray from my machine & I PT & print in the same room.

For just starting out you might consider the Viper Mini. I can't imagine dealing with a closed PT'er, constantly opening & closing a drawer and having to crawl inside a tiny metal box to clean the damned thing.

When evaluating printers I suggest the following:
1. Research the user base. Is there one? How large is it?
2. Ask for referrals from the distributor & _call_ them. Difficulty getting referrals is a red flag.
3. Ask for a set of user manuals from your distributor. Check out the quality of the manuals. Were they made in-house & are they well-written?
4. What RIP do they offer? I would stay away from re-branded RIPs, you probably won't have an upgrade path..
5. Do not agree to a "Mediation & Arbitration" clause in your purchase agreement. Don't let them take away your legal avenues in case you get screwed.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

Do you mean a conversion like a opendtg or something similar? I was looking into opendtg for a while. Wasn't too sure on print quality though. Do you think the print quality compares to an epson (look of print as well as washability)? With the price tag the Opendgt is real tempting.

The epson warrenty seems stellar. Tough to pass up. Something no one else offers. For a first time DTG owner I may have to go with the epson and the warrenty. From what I understand G4 (and I think Omni) won't have technicians available to come to your place of business to fix any problems. Everything will have to be problem solved over the phone or video chat. That is somewhat nerve racking. I feel like I can handle most mechanical and technical things with guidance over the phone but will that be enough to fix every problem.. who knows with dtg. 

I'm going to keep the printer active (I plan on doing 30+ shirts a day) and having a constant 60-65% humidity level. By keeping it active and in a good environment I'm hoping to minimize a lot of the problems people run into.

I want an inclosed pretreat because I don't want any over spray in the air to settle on everything and potentially cause breathing problems. I am leaning towards the pearl elite, because it has a ventilation system, tough screen, all sorts of customization and the ability to save presets by name. Cleaning sounds like its going to be a pain though. I already asked a few times but has anyone heard of the PTM OneStep? Seems to be a pretreat and curing game changer. Wondering if I should just use a wagner sprayer for the time being and wait for that to come out.

From what it seems every platen option is pretty expensive. Wasn't sure what was the best to go though. The normal epson with hoop and optional grip pad. The tucklock options. Or equipment zone has a ez line of platens. Can anyone comment on which is fastest and which one produces the best print?

I just got some test prints from omni print and did a bunch of wash tests. They have held up excellent. Colors are still very bright after 5 washes. I really like the 330tx plus, the only down fall is that it only prints at 12.5 x 20. Some of my designs are wider than 12.5. Say I have a design that is 15" x 4" can I just load the shirt on the platen sideways and print it that way basically printing a design that is 4" wide by 15 long? Will that make the print take a lot longer?


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> Do you mean a conversion like a opendtg or something similar? I was looking into opendtg for a while. Wasn't too sure on print quality though. Do you think the print quality compares to an epson (look of print as well as washability)? With the price tag the Opendgt is real tempting.


If you can do your own maintenance and repairs, then OpenDTG is a perfectly good option.
Omniprint is not a better printer. What you really pay for is the massive cost of marketing and some limited aftersales support.

For the average person the F2100 with refillable carts is the best option.
A used one in good condition is a good option as well.


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## MQP (Jun 30, 2021)

tkster95 said:


> Do you mean a conversion like a opendtg or something similar? I was looking into opendtg for a while. Wasn't too sure on print quality though. Do you think the print quality compares to an epson (look of print as well as washability)? With the price tag the Opendgt is real tempting.
> 
> The epson warrenty seems stellar. Tough to pass up. Something no one else offers. For a first time DTG owner I may have to go with the epson and the warrenty. From what I understand G4 (and I think Omni) won't have technicians available to come to your place of business to fix any problems. Everything will have to be problem solved over the phone or video chat. That is somewhat nerve racking. I feel like I can handle most mechanical and technical things with guidance over the phone but will that be enough to fix every problem.. who knows with dtg.
> 
> ...


Beware of Epson. Warranty is good for the first year. If you miss buying the second year by a day your out. If you by the second year after that they will not let you buy a 3rd year. Minuim call out for service is $2500.

We work on printers but they will not sell anyone the software needed to do repairs. Epson is a good price but they make sure you have to buy a new machine in 3 years or less. That is why there are so many on the market being used as a brick


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## Edge Foley (Jun 23, 2021)

I have a Coldesi PTM pretreat unit for sale. I've had it about 4 months and only used it a couple of times. It is basically brand new or as good as. We decided to only do light colored shirts and not darks. We have the DTG G4 and love it. Also, I can tell you tech support from Coldesi is awesome.


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## BBProd (Oct 29, 2008)

tkster95 said:


> Do you mean a conversion like a opendtg or something similar? I was looking into opendtg for a while. Wasn't too sure on print quality though. Do you think the print quality compares to an epson (look of print as well as washability)? With the price tag the Opendgt is real tempting.


OpenDTG, Omniprint, I've been told the F2100 is actually a conversion, not sure if that's true, but with a 5 year warranty that wouldn't bother me.



tkster95 said:


> The epson warrenty seems stellar. Tough to pass up. Something no one else offers. For a first time DTG owner I may have to go with the epson and the warrenty. From what I understand G4 (and I think Omni) won't have technicians available to come to your place of business to fix any problems. Everything will have to be problem solved over the phone or video chat. That is somewhat nerve racking. I feel like I can handle most mechanical and technical things with guidance over the phone but will that be enough to fix every problem.. who knows with dtg.


Yes, remote technical support can really suck. Are they available on the weekend? For that matter are they available during the week? I've seen plenty of posts where people complain about not getting call backs from their vendor.

I see someone posted that the F2100 only has 2 years of optional warranty. That's what I remember from a few years ago, but a distributor just told me you can get up to a 5 year warranty. I wonder if they offer years 4 & 5 on their own?



tkster95 said:


> I want an inclosed pretreat because I don't want any over spray in the air to settle on everything and potentially cause breathing problems. I am leaning towards the pearl elite, because it has a ventilation system, tough screen, all sorts of customization and the ability to save presets by name. Cleaning sounds like its going to be a pain though.


You should give Brian Walker a call at Image Armor, he can give you a good explanation on why his open design works. I can tell you this, when I PT a shirt I don't see any overspray on the shirt, or on the area around the PT platen. And clean up is a whiz!



tkster95 said:


> From what it seems every platen option is pretty expensive. Wasn't sure what was the best to go though. The normal epson with hoop and optional grip pad. The tucklock options. Or equipment zone has a ez line of platens. Can anyone comment on which is fastest and which one produces the best print?


Tuc-Loc platens are awesome, that's what I use. I have two so I can load while printing.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

Unfortunatly opendtg is out of stock on their current model. Since epson discontinued the p600 I'm guessing that the opendtg printer is discontinued. I imagine opendtg is working on a p800 (I think that's epsons new model number), but who knows how long that will take for them to release (if they do at all).

I like the omni prints. They seem a bit brighter than the epson.. that may be because they printed on highest setting where epson didn't, but not sure on that. Has anyone ever seen the same design printed on each printer side by side? Still concerned about size of print and price of machine though.

So even with the epson warranty a service call will cost a minimum of $2500? Or do you mean it costs that much if you don't renew the warranty? I was under the impression that the service calls were covered.

Are the platens on the epson a quick change system? That would be nice to be able to have a shirt prepped and ready to swap out.

I just saw a video about a shoe platen for epson. Seemed like a unique item to offer customers. Looks like a lot of work, so not sure if its worth it though. I wonder if omni or g4 has a platen to print on shoes. If not, I wonder if the epson platens can fit on those machines. Anyone know or tested it?

Still waiting on some more samples from the g4. Hopefully I'll be able to make a decision shortly after receiving those.




Edge Foley said:


> I have a Coldesi PTM pretreat unit for sale. I've had it about 4 months and only used it a couple of times. It is basically brand new or as good as. We decided to only do light colored shirts and not darks. We have the DTG G4 and love it. Also, I can tell you tech support from Coldesi is awesome.


I've heard a lot of good things about Coldesi support after a purchase. I remember visiting their booth where they demonstrated laser transfer printers and left with a good impression about the company. Then when I heard they bought belquette I was anticipating the release of a new printer which turned out to be the G4. I'm curious, why did you decide to not do dark colored shirts? Was it because of your market's preferences or were you having print / washability problems with white ink on dark shirts?


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

tkster95 said:


> Unfortunatly opendtg is out of stock on their current model. Since epson discontinued the p600 I'm guessing that the opendtg printer is discontinued. I imagine opendtg is working on a p800 (I think that's epsons new model number), but who knows how long that will take for them to release (if they do at all).


The P600 and P800 models have both been discontinued by Epson, and since these are what most conversions use, now is not a good time to buy a DTG conversion.
I've been using my own P800 based conversions for a few years now, but they are getting decommissioned from my shop as soon as the printheads in them fail.
The flatbeds can accommodate other printer models, possibly the new P900, but I've not had the chance to try yet and I think all DTG conversions will be switching to custom DTG builds soon. Custom printhead controllers are now cheap, so there is no need to do conversions.



tkster95 said:


> I like the omni prints. They seem a bit brighter than the epson.. that may be because they printed on highest setting where epson didn't, but not sure on that. Has anyone ever seen the same design printed on each printer side by side? Still concerned about size of print and price of machine though.


I have, and the look of the print depends mostly on technique and settings.
All decent printers and inks can do the job. Different speeds, different curing times, and different prices of course, but they all work.



tkster95 said:


> So even with the epson warranty a service call will cost a minimum of $2500? Or do you mean it costs that much if you don't renew the warranty? I was under the impression that the service calls were covered.


I don't think this $2500 service call is true. This price would probably be for a printhead replacement.
Also extended warranties are money for nothing in my opinion because:
a) they don't cover the cost of service parts, and
b) replaced parts have their own standard warranty.



tkster95 said:


> I'm curious, why did you decide to not do dark colored shirts?


Many people do this including myself, and this is why all DTG printers have a CMYK only versions or mode.
The F2100 for example has two versions, the 4c model (without white ink), and the 5c model (with white ink).
White ink DTG is just a pain and too expensive.


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## BBProd (Oct 29, 2008)

Hey, TABOB:
Two questions:
1. "Custom Printhead Controller" is new to me. What is it?
2. Do you not print dark garments at all? I'm finding that's what most people want.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

BBProd said:


> 1. "Custom Printhead Controller" is new to me. What is it?


Third party controller boards for controlling the x/y movement as well as the the printhead nozzles. 
Some technical knowledge is required of course, as you still have to build the mechanical part.



BBProd said:


> 2. Do you not print dark garments at all? I'm finding that's what most people want.


I print a lot of dark garments but screen-print everything involving white ink.
My minimum is 50 prints and I normally do around 200 to 300 prints per design, so making a screen is not a big deal.
I actually do 3 screens (for the different sizes), but that's much better than what I had to do before (15 screens to screen-print three sizes of CMYK+W).

Also, white shirts are often much more popular than black.


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## Uniqueable (Apr 21, 2021)

tkster95 said:


> Still waiting on some more samples from the g4. Hopefully I'll be able to make a decision shortly after receiving those.


I have been researching DTG printers myself and am curious as to which one you decided to go with.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm making the purchase this week. Most likely going with the Epson, not sure where I'm going to purchase it though. 

Still deciding on a pretreat machine. Either the speedtreater, mister t1 or pearl elite. They all have their advantages. What I'm most concerned about is spray consistency. I also want one with the strongest most reliable pump/motor. Problem is there's no info on that available. Can anyone comment on which pretreat has the best, most reliable pump/motor?


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## Uniqueable (Apr 21, 2021)

tkster95 said:


> I'm making the purchase this week. Most likely going with the Epson, not sure where I'm going to purchase it though.


The only dealer that I have dealt with so far is Equipment Zone and have had zero issues with them. Their onsite and phone support has been extremely helpful (I have experience using both). I used to own a Epson F2000. It's now discontinued. Looking back, I wish that I would have just spent the extra money and got the F2100 instead. I am in the process of looking for another printer. Been doing a ton of research on different ones, but keep coming back to Epson. 



tkster95 said:


> Still deciding on a pretreat machine. Either the speedtreater, mister t1 or pearl elite. They all have their advantages. What I'm most concerned about is spray consistency. I also want one with the strongest most reliable pump/motor. Problem is there's no info on that available. Can anyone comment on which pretreat has the best, most reliable pump/motor?


I don't have any experience with the other two, but used to have a SpeedTreater and do not recommend it. 
This shows you the maintenance that you have to do. 





Still deciding on which machine I am going get to replace it.


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## tkster95 (Aug 11, 2011)

Uniqueable said:


> The only dealer that I have dealt with so far is Equipment Zone and have had zero issues with them. Their onsite and phone support has been extremely helpful (I have experience using both). I used to own a Epson F2000. It's now discontinued. Looking back, I wish that I would have just spent the extra money and got the F2100 instead. I am in the process of looking for another printer. Been doing a ton of research on different ones, but keep coming back to Epson.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about the speedtreater don't you like? The nozzle maintenance seems pretty standard, what confuses me is how you clean the inside of the machine. Doesn't look like there is any windows or easy way to get in. Does the inside cake up with old pretreat and get on new shirts when you load them in?

There does seem to be a lot of positive reviews for it, as well as for equipment zone, here on the fourm. I haven't been able to find much feedback on many other machines. Because of that I was leaning towards the speedtreater. That's why I'm curious to hear what you didn't like about it.

I recently came across the onestep by ptm innovations. 



 Looks pretty awesome. I was hoping to purchase that instead of a pretreat machine and heat press... that's why I've been dragging my feet with the DTG purchase. Seems like it may not be out in the foreseeable future though.. it was supposed to be in late 2020 but kept getting pushed back. The sales rep I spoke with at coldesi has no idea when its coming out or how much it will be. I can't wait much longer so I think I'm just going to go the heat press and pretreatment machine route.


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## BBProd (Oct 29, 2008)

Uniqueable said:


> I have been researching DTG printers myself and am curious as to which one you decided to go with.


GTX Pro.



tkster95 said:


> What about the speedtreater don't you like? The nozzle maintenance seems pretty standard, what confuses me is how you clean the inside of the machine. Doesn't look like there is any windows or easy way to get in. Does the inside cake up with old pretreat and get on new shirts when you load them in?


A good reason to look an open design. Like the Viper Maxx.


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## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

Go into DTF , better quality, very very very better washability and u get the same results on different garments. 

So EPSON 2100 and the GTX are bot machines where able to make DTF Transfers and if you want u can also use them as DTG (but why) 

DTF is the gamechanger we invested last year in Kornit machines and they are now kinda useless


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## BBProd (Oct 29, 2008)

Can you print a gradient with DTF?


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## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

ofc the same way u can print them with DTG  its only your Graphicsoftware skills.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

schroble said:


> DTF is the gamechanger we invested last year in Kornit machines and they are now kinda useless


Hmm... This is really hard to believe.
DTF is just like printable vinyl without the weeding part.
This is OK for some things but not a DTG replacement.


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## schroble (Feb 12, 2008)

No DTF is like everything in better, ofc u are right if you print A4 - A3 full size 100% prints its a bit to hard and has this vinyl feeling which ppl dont want but how often
do you have prints like this? 
We switchted 100% all whites to DTF no wash problems, no fading, brilliant 1000++++++ colours on all garment types same results AND it works on 60° wash.

I where also not happy about DTF and thought "this doesnt want anyone" but now since the GTX can make DTF Tranfers ppl only want DTF and we use it for 90% of our orders now (even PoD Customers said they only want DTF not DTG !)


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

schroble said:


> if you print A4 - A3 full size 100% prints its a bit to hard and has this vinyl feeling which ppl dont want but how often
> do you have prints like this?


I actually DTG up to A2 size and sometimes even that is not enough.
I only print hybrid DTG by the way, so I can control the type of feel I want and keep ink costs really low as well.
Large t-shirt prints are popular in some niches and people really like the soft feeling prints.



schroble said:


> We switchted 100% all whites to DTF no wash problems, no fading, brilliant 1000++++++ colours on all garment types same results AND it works on 60° wash.


Pretty much like printable vinyl. 
I'd say DTF is more suitable for polyester t-shirts, like athletic uniforms, and also for heavier fabrics like hoodies, sweaters, etc.



schroble said:


> but now since the GTX can make DTF Tranfers ppl only want DTF and we use it for 90% of our orders now (even PoD Customers said they only want DTF not DTG !)


We have very different customers obviously. My customers don't like vinyl printed t-shirts, and DTF looks and feels like vinyl.


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