# Color issues anyone?



## sunshinegrfx (Oct 26, 2011)

Since color fidelity is an issue in most aspects of digital graphics I assume it is also a challenge of sorts with DTG. Anyone care to discuss PMS matching and faithful skin tone reproduction on the DTG platform?


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## JohnL (Nov 23, 2010)

With most 4 color process exact pms matching is normally out of the question. However with good profiles and software you can come pretty close. If PMS color matching is important the best option would be to print out a color swatch and use that as a reference. Skin tones are the same way with good profiles and software skin tones are generally not an issue.


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

Depends on what you mean by PMS matching, there is matching PMS process and matching PMS spot colours.
PMS process is one thing, but PMS spots you are going to struggle a lot.

PMS colours orginally started out as around 1000 spot colours used in offset and screen printing, a lot of these colours were outside CMYK offset gamut.

Pantone then had a process guide equivalent which is the closest color you can get with CMYK.

If you are looking to match spot colours then in general you wont (most cant be reproduced accuratly), the DTG color gamut is quite small compared to normal inkjet printing (although bigger on white ink than directly on white shirts).
If you are looking for the PMS process equivalent then it can do a reasonable job.

There is a big BUT in all this, PMS spot colours are printed using something called Named color space in PostScript and PDF files only and PMS process is a CMYK guide (eg. CMYK values defined for either SWOP , EuroScale or Forgra there are actually three different guides).
Most users print bitmap images (PNG, PSD, TIF) espeacilly for printing with white ink, so defining pantones goes out the window. There are also quit a few RIPs being used that dont include PostScript or PDF support.

So because of all this and the gamut is small, its generally better to print an RGB or CMYK swatch and then ask the user to pick the color they will except from this if they are after a specific color match. If its not there then it saves you a lot of time.

You always have the issue with color matching of whats acceptable to one person isnt to another. 

Best regards

_David


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

sunshinegrfx said:


> Since color fidelity is an issue in most aspects of digital graphics I assume it is also a challenge of sorts with DTG. Anyone care to discuss PMS matching and faithful skin tone reproduction on the DTG platform?


Even with profiling, you are printing on a matte substrate, so if you want "pop" then the tendancy is to oversaturate. When you do this, you will reduce the number of colors or compress the gamut. If there are skin tones or what I call "flavor colors" I will tend to under saturate those colors and increase contrast with the darkest parts of a photo. This way you get lettering and Corporate colors to look good without causing garish color or pumpkin face people. You're not creating perfect color, you're fooling the eye in to seeing a wider range of overall color.


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## sunshinegrfx (Oct 26, 2011)

John, David Z, you guys rock. I very much appreciate the help. It's my personal feeling that DTG is the future, but timing is everything.


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## 135367 (Mar 10, 2011)

I've printed both Corel and Photoshop RGB color charts on white T-Shirts. It was a pain the butt to create, but I'll be glad to share, email me at jackie@smartwearImprints.com . I've also found that if you do a light pretreatment on all garments, the color is more true, even on white shirts. My biggest problem was trying to get a true yellow printed on white T's. The pretreatment made my effort easier.


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

I have put PS, PDF and TIF versions of a standard RGB and CMYK swatches at the following location for anyone who wants to use them for personnal use (they remain Cadlink copyright and are not for distribution with other products).

ftp://ftp.cadlink.com/OEM_/CustomQ_/Swatch/

The RGB ones are 12 pages and the CMYK is 24 (12 pages CMY and 12 pages of CMY+K).

Depending on the RIP and profiles you typically want to print these once for white shirts and once for black shirts on white ink as you in general get a much bigger gamut on white ink than directly on teh shirt. But print them using the same method as you use for production.

Using a XXL you can get 4 pages on once shirt (2 front and 2 on the back), so doesnt take long.

It shouldnt matter if you print from PhotoShop or Corel so long as you organise you color managment correctly, get your CMS configured and you should be able to design in RGB or CMYK and get the same output from any application. Although anyone on Corel I really strongly suggest getting X5. 

Best regards

-David


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## dirttoo (Sep 16, 2011)

cavedave said:


> I have put PS, PDF and TIF versions of a standard RGB and CMYK swatches at the following location for anyone who wants to use them for personnal use (they remain Cadlink copyright and are not for distribution with other products).
> 
> ftp://ftp.cadlink.com/OEM_/CustomQ_/Swatch/
> 
> ...


Are you saying to print all of the pages on shirts so you get an accurate look at what your colors look like? 
RGB and CMYK both for dtg?


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

Thats the idea, you can then print a color and know exactly what it will print.

Best regards

-David


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## dirttoo (Sep 16, 2011)

cavedave, I am still really struggling with colors. I went to your link and did rgb pdf. I found a color I wanted to test. It was a brite green. Was 5% red, 90% green and 0% blue. On my screen it looked more like the color 5% red, 20% green and 0% blue. Way too dark. I did not print anything thinking I was doing something wrong. Could I be that far off? I am using Flexisign Pro 10 to design in and a Melco G2 dtg printer. Can you help?
Thanks


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## JohnL (Nov 23, 2010)

The reason for the swatches is to print them to see what the color output will be. Once you have the color printed on the respective garment you will know which color combination is needed to print that specific color by referring back to the swatch and seeing what the combination was. Unless your monitor is profiled you will be hard pressed to get accurate color representation through it. 

Hope this is helpful.


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

Dooes Flexi work in % for RGB ?
Most programs use 0 to 255 for RGB and 0 to 100 for CMYK.
I dont know Flexi, but if you look at Illustrator, Corel, PhotoShop, Signlab or even programs such as Powerpoint and Word you will see
0,0,0 is RGB is black
255,255,255 in RGB is white
0,255,0 is a bright green

If you used your % of 0 to 255 5% = 13 and 20% = 51 and 90% = 230
so
13,290,0 gives a bright green
13,51,0 gives a very very dark green
so 13,290,0 sounds correct but for some reason Flexi is using some strang alternative of RGB colors.

Are you sure you are not printing an RGB chart and looking at CMYK in Flexi ?

Best regards

-David


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## dirttoo (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes, Flexi uses 0-255. Is there a chart similar to what you posted where I can print it and pick a color using the numbers 0-255? I was told to use RGB. 

How did you figure this?... 
"If you used your % of 0 to 255 5% = 13 and 20% = 51 and 90% = 230
so
13,290,0 gives a bright green
13,51,0 gives a very very dark green
so 13,290,0 sounds correct but for some reason Flexi is using some strang alternative of RGB colors."

I did look at the CMYK chart and the colors did look better on the Flexi screen. I did not print anything though.


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

In PostScript / PDF everything RGB an CMYK works in 0 to 1, and the charts were all created in PostScript.

I will put a bit more work in to them when I get a chance and updatte the RGB % to 0 to 255 values.

As for how to work this out
if 0% = 0 and 100% = 255 then 10 % = 255 x 0.1 or 25.5 (then round up or down).

Best regards

-David


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## dirttoo (Sep 16, 2011)

cavedave said:


> In PostScript / PDF everything RGB an CMYK works in 0 to 1, and the charts were all created in PostScript.
> 
> I will put a bit more work in to them when I get a chance and updatte the RGB % to 0 to 255 values.
> 
> ...


Awesome, Thanks


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

I have just updated all the RGB swatches so they now output 0-255 so you dont have to apply any maths, you can just use the values on the charts.

Best regards

-David


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## dirttoo (Sep 16, 2011)

cavedave said:


> I have just updated all the RGB swatches so they now output 0-255 so you dont have to apply any maths, you can just use the values on the charts.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> -David


Thanks again David, 
I printed the swatches on shirts today and all is well. I am ready for the world now.


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