# Print results comparison: 1390/1400 based vs R1900/R2000 based DTG ?



## pawpaw (May 10, 2012)

Hi,

Anyone have seen in person the print results of both Epson 1390/1400 based DTG printer and R1900/R2000 based DTG printing the *same image*?

Is there any visible difference between the two print results?

I know R1900/R2000 should be faster, etc, but I'm digging more into the print results.

Thanks,
Stu


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

The RIP would be a bigger faktor than printer model.


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## pawpaw (May 10, 2012)

let's say everything is identical (including the RIP soft) except the printer


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

On darks or whites ?


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## pawpaw (May 10, 2012)

Smalzstein said:


> On darks or whites ?



how about both on dark and white?

have you actually compare them both (1400 vs R1900) in print quality?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Yeah I saw a chinese built of 1400 with white. The colors were not perfect because of the crappy RIP, but 1400 uses only 2 channels for white so printing a4 image took 9 minutes!

As if it was cmyk + lc,lm the quality for whites schould be a bit better than R1900 thanks to the higher colorspectrum, but still very very slow printing.


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## pawpaw (May 10, 2012)

Smalzstein said:


> Yeah I saw a chinese built of 1400 with white. The colors were not perfect because of the crappy RIP, but 1400 uses only 2 channels for white so printing a4 image took 9 minutes!
> 
> As if it was cmyk + lc,lm the quality for whites schould be a bit better than R1900 thanks to the higher colorspectrum, but still very very slow printing.


for the print speed, yes that is a tradeoff... but I tought if I can buy two 1400 based DTG, then maybe the overall print speed will be comparable to one R1900, plus I will have spare machine just in case something happens to one of them.

what about the print details/resolution?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

To be honest I would recommend you R2000. The price difference is not that big and you will have a propper print engine. With EKRIP you will print a4 image on darks in a little over 3 minutes. On whites it will take less than a minute (my sublimation 1400 prints a4 page in 4 minutes in 720x720). 

As for print detail if you really want to see noticible detail difference then you need Epson 4880.


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## pawpaw (May 10, 2012)

Smalzstein said:


> To be honest I would recommend you R2000. The price difference is not that big and you will have a propper print engine. With EKRIP you will print a4 image on darks in a little over 3 minutes. On whites it will take less than a minute (my sublimation 1400 prints a4 page in 4 minutes in 720x720).
> 
> As for print detail if you really want to see noticible detail difference then you need Epson 4880.


Isn't Epson 4880 use the same print head as R1900/R2000? What makes the print details different then?
The ink set for DTG should be also the same: CMYK + W.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Epson firmware. 

Printhead is just nozzles spraying ink. 

The firmware in the mainboard makes the difference.

For example epson R1900 - R2880 - virtualy the same printers only firmware and minor electronics difference and totaly different in quality.


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

Smalzstein said:


> Epson firmware.
> 
> Printhead is just nozzles spraying ink.
> 
> ...


How if for the example of R1390 and R1900 as the firmware also different. R1900 should has better quality if says inks and others are the same?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

FulStory said:


> How if for the example of R1390 and R1900 as the firmware also different. R1900 should has better quality if says inks and others are the same?


On t shirts yes.


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

The 1390 / 1400 has 90 nozzles per channel and the 1900 / R2000 has 180 nozzles per channel, so that makes a like for like comparison the 1900 / R2000 twice as quick.
But as you needs lots of white ink down for dark shirts and you only have 6 channels in the 1400 and 8 in the R2000, you can get away with one pass of white on an R2000 and would need two passes on the 1400. So for dark shirts its more than twice as slow, depending on the resolution for the underbase and color, but 3-4 times slower.

As for print quality they should be the same except for any registration issues doing an extra pass of white. 

Best regards

-David


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

cavedave said:


> The 1390 / 1400 has 90 nozzles per channel and the 1900 / R2000 has 180 nozzles per channel, so that makes a like for like comparison the 1900 / R2000 twice as quick.
> But as you needs lots of white ink down for dark shirts and you only have 6 channels in the 1400 and 8 in the R2000, you can get away with one pass of white on an R2000 and would need two passes on the 1400. So for dark shirts its more than twice as slow, depending on the resolution for the underbase and color, but 3-4 times slower.
> 
> As for print quality they should be the same except for any registration issues doing an extra pass of white.
> ...


Thank for the reply. But with the more nozzles for r2000, would it be getting clog more easily when compare to r1390 as the nozzle size become smaller?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

FulStory said:


> Thank for the reply. But with the more nozzles for r2000, would it be getting clog more easily when compare to r1390 as the nozzle size become smaller?


I belive that nozzles can be smaller on 1400 since it has lower minimum drop size. Or they are the same just spaced more.


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

The nozzles are the same size, and both printer are capable of printing a 1.5pl dot as smallest dot.

Its not the head / nozzles that is different, just the number of nozzles used by each color.

There is another important difference and that is the 1400 is design to use the Epson Clara ink, while the R2000 uses the Ultrachrome ink set (same as the 4880). The whole idea of the Epson Piezo print head is that you can use the same head and then the firmware can control how the dot is formed for different inks. So the 1400 will not same voltage to fire a dot as the R2000 (as its a different ink and Epson will optimise this for the ink set), at least not in all cases, it might in some, we don't know.
But the VSD settings for the 1400 are very different to the R2000 and this is what sets up how the firmware fires each dot type.

This doesn't tell you very much though, as you don't know if the 1400 is better or worse than the R2000 for the Dupont textile ink.
Although my I am sure Dupont will have tested there ink in the 4800 (which is Ultrachrome), but maybe not the 1400.

Best regards

-David


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

cavedave said:


> The nozzles are the same size, and both printer are capable of printing a 1.5pl dot as smallest dot.
> 
> Its not the head / nozzles that is different, just the number of nozzles used by each color.
> 
> ...


David, your comment is so informative. Thank you.


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## synful prod (Apr 27, 2011)

this is what i can tell you:

I went from a china made 1390 then i converted to 1400 DIY type DTG printer to a melcojet (anajet sprint 2010 R1900 based) and the difference is VERY noticeable. 

When i got the melcojet i did a side by side printing test from the same rip software at the same timewith the same settings. meaning sent one to print then sent the next one right after. I printed a 13x15 image with a decent amount of ink coverage CMYK only on white shirts. the 1400 printed ONE shirt in the time it took the melcojet to print THREE! image quality is identical on both printers but the speed is where you will make your money. The DTG side of my business has gone from 5-10% of my revenue to 40-50%

Before with the diy type machine we would be hesitant of pushing anything more than one or two shirts now i push short run multicolor jobs to DTG and even with price discounts for multiple garments we still make a killing in terms of cost - profit ratio. We recently added a pretreat machine to the shop and i see myself pushing DTG even more for some cotton printed jobs.

Average cost of a dark shirt with full coverage, pretreat, ink, electric, hourly labor cost etc. $5 TOTAL with a resell value $15 minimum for multi shirts. We can print about 15-20 an hour at $10 per shirt PROFIT equals $150 to $200 an hour. On top of our screen printing, signs etc. its a NO BRAINER! skip the 1400 and go right for the R1900 or better based machine if you have the clients for it.


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