# Dye sublimation on 100% cotton



## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

I am currently talking with a manufacturer who says they can run an all over dye dub print on 100% cotton t-shirt. They said this is new. 

Is it true?


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

NO it is not true.


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

skdave said:


> NO it is not true.


/end thread.


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## ACreator24 (Sep 10, 2015)

skdave said:


> NO it is not true.


Specifically Dye Sublimation = NO as Skdave says...BUT I'm reading about ChromaBlast and it comes from the same folks who created sublimation. From what I understand it's very very similar to sublimation and they have a dark shirt option. 

I'm new so go ahead and beat me up. I'm just simply sharing information I've come across in the last few days (from an article written in 2014) as I am looking to get into the business myself.


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

I wonder what a shirt, completely sandwiched on both sides in that sub print on cotton stuff would actually feel like.

lol


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

I just got a sample of some liquid that I'm told will allow me to do sublimation on cotton
After I try it i'll post the results


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ACreator24 said:


> Specifically Dye Sublimation = NO as Skdave says...BUT I'm reading about ChromaBlast and it comes from the same folks who created sublimation. From what I understand it's very very similar to sublimation and they have a dark shirt option.
> 
> I'm new so go ahead and beat me up. I'm just simply sharing information I've come across in the last few days (from an article written in 2014) as I am looking to get into the business myself.



ChromaBlast is not similar at all really to sublimation. 

By and large it is just regular inkjet ink (with a few tweaks) and inkjet transfer paper that is plastic carrier based. This is cased on a review of their patent, how the product is printed and applied, and my own personal testing many years ago.

ChromaBlast requires a plastic based carrier paper (a heat transfered sticker) for the inks to adhere to the tshirt.

If you read the inkjet transfer section here you will find many of us accomplish the same thing as SG Chromablast except much cheaper with better quality results. 

JPSS inkjet heat transfer paper and any good pigment inks are a cheaper and better solution than Chromablast is and is the most popular of the 2 products hands down.


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## Michael Gray (Sep 10, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> ChromaBlast is not similar at all really to sublimation.
> 
> By and large it is just regular inkjet ink (with a few tweaks) and inkjet transfer paper that is plastic carrier based. This is cased on a review of their patent, how the product is printed and applied, and my own personal testing many years ago.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's true because sublimation can be only done on Polyester fabric Or Cotton/Poly blend however if you want digital images so you can opt for High quality Heat transferred printing.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ParrotPrinting said:


> I just got a sample of some liquid that I'm told will allow me to do sublimation on cotton
> After I try it i'll post the results



Lee, this is just the *same old snake oil* that gets peddled year after year.

The liquids "work" they create a polymer coating on the tshirt that is a sublimatable surface that the sublimation inks can bind to.

The coating binds to the t-shirt and the sub dyes bind to the coating.

Problem is.

1. In the US now you best be careful what you are putting on a t-shirt and selling. Suggest you start here ...

T-Shirt Forums - Search Results for CPSIA regulations

2. While it might look Ok initially once the coating breakdowns then the image degrade. You are defeating the sublimation advantages, this stuff can have hand and show a background. Some are better than others.

3. Look into regular inkjet heat transfer with pigment inks, such as JPSS paper. More cost effective, easier to apply, takes less time, and provides more consistent results. The idea of the coating is to allow cheaper shirts to be use. _You can use cheaper shirts with JPSS too._


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Michael Gray said:


> I don't think it's true because sublimation can be only done on Polyester fabric Or Cotton/Poly blend however if you want digital images so you can opt for High quality Heat transferred printing.


Huh? 

These coatings are what gets sublimated, not the shirt. I'm not claiming cotton sublimates. I never stated that sublimation could be done on anything other than a polymer. Where are you getting this?

I have done transfers using laser toner on transfer paper. Laser sublimation toner, inkjet pigment inks, inkjet sublimation, these are all done using "digital images so you can opt for high quality heat transfered printing".

The amount of quality basically comes down to the printer resolution and the fact that weaved products like t-shirt limit resolution due to the weave pattern.

My statements are all true.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

I do sublimation and also screenprinting this is just something that I received as a sample....heatpress is warming up now and tomorrow after it sts up for 24 hours I'll wash it and see what happens....I basically feel the same way you do Mike but I'm only printing it on a "rag" anyway so we'll see what happens.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

BTW Mike....I'll make sure to let you know


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ParrotPrinting said:


> I do sublimation and also screenprinting this is just something that I received as a sample....heatpress is warming up now and tomorrow after it sts up for 24 hours I'll wash it and see what happens....I basically feel the same way you do Mike but I'm only printing it on a "rag" anyway so we'll see what happens.


It doesn't hurt to try. But suggest before you consider adopting this as a process try JPSS on a white 50/50 with pigment inks first.  I have tshirts made with JPSS that have been washed a gazillion times and are over 5 years old.

Applying the "prep" lends itself to issues.


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## ApparelGuru (Sep 10, 2015)

Dye sublimation is possible on 100% Cotton after it gets dipped in a certain liquid material which I am unsure about right now. There is another method called direct to garment through which all over digital printing is possible on 100% cotton but that requires a higher quantity though


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ApparelGuru said:


> Dye sublimation is possible on 100% Cotton after it gets dipped in a certain liquid material which I am unsure about right now. There is another method called direct to garment through which all over digital printing is possible on 100% cotton but that requires a higher quantity though


Yup. The only requirement is that the liguid can be sublimated after drying ... polymer based. But why? What you think you are saving on the t-shirt you are adding back in that liquid crap and then adding a process that requires more time and then you have to keep the t-shirts clean while this crap dries.

You are basically adding a spray painting/coating operation and need dedicated space for the t-shirt to be sprayed and then _cleanly_ dried. Time and space = $$ where I come from.

I can bang out white 50/50s using JPSS and pigment inks in a fraction of the time and less cost, with better results.

Penny wise and pound foolish.

DTG is pigment ink based as is cotton printing on roll fabric. Different animals.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ParrotPrinting said:


> BTW Mike....I'll make sure to let you know


BTW, I didn't mention but it is also possible to use regular inkjet transfer papers (such as JPSS) as your "prep" instead of the liquid.

I'm not an advocate of doing it, but if you don't want to keep a separate pigment setup around then just sublimate print the JPSS (or similar paper) and heat transfer the paper to the tshirt. 

To me the only possible advantage is to keep only one printer around or not switch around inks if you are using carts and not CIS and only 1 printer.

We used to call this method using "prep paper" LOL. Prep just means you are making a surface suitable for sublimation. So can be "prep spray" or "prep paper" used.

Would take less time and transfer paper is dry and won't attract all this stuff flying around in the air like a wet sticking liquid would, and no issues getting it applied accurately and evenly unlike a coating would.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

Careful Mike your cynicism is showing


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ParrotPrinting said:


> Careful Mike your cynicism is showing


LOL. I love to experiment too, so I don't want to really discourage you, but I've been there, done that, and bought that t-shirt before (pun intended).


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

I do not knew how your manufacturer works, but here are some samples we made on similar concept. It woks beautifully and the print is definitively Soft Hands.

As far as I have seen in the most cases you need to modify your printer. And you can not print photos because of the ink inter bleeding problem of transfer paper. Because otherwise the powder would no stick to dryed printed inks.

But in this our case we do not have to convert anything on printer. And there is no interbreeding. Thankfully to this transfer paper

Procedure is simple
1. Print on special transfer paper with normal sublimation inks
2. Pure Developer in powder over the printout
3. Shake off the powder
4. Put the print on T shirt and melt that powder in heat press

And you get sublimation in that Developer powder. If you have a elastic T shirt you need to slightly wet a paper after first heat anf repeat a heat process.
5, take off the transfer paper.

An this is it


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

adriatic said:


> I do not knew how your manufacturer works, but here are some samples we made on similar concept. It woks beautifully and the print is definitively Soft Hands.
> 
> As far as I have seen in the most cases you need to modify your printer. And you can not print photos because of the ink inter bleeding problem of transfer paper. Because otherwise the powder would no stick to dryed printed inks.
> 
> ...


I get the same or better results using pigment inks and JPSS paper.

1. I can print anything photos or anything else.
2. No developer.
3. No printer mod.
4. No powder

Procedure is:

Print transfer
Place transfer
Heat Press
Peel

_After_ washing ZERO hand and no background requiring trim on white garments.


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> I get the same or better results using pigment inks and JPSS paper.
> 
> 1. I can print anything photos or anything else.
> 2. No developer.
> ...


Yes you are right but with that paper you can not get soft hand on dark

Something like this. I knew this sample is not great but it definitively show that soft hand is relay working on dark as well. In this case it is pigment Acrylic ink and you can see how the white background is eating color intensity. But if we used that sublimation ink in the same process the image would be punchy the same way as sublimation on cotton

So sublimation ink is the right way to go for print on dark and Soft Hand


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

adriatic said:


> Yes you are right but with that paper you can not get soft hand on dark
> 
> Something like this. I knew this sample is not great but it definitively show that soft hand is relay working on dark as well. In this case it is pigment Acrylic ink and you can see how the white background is eating color intensity. But if we used that sublimation ink in the same process the image would be punchy the same way as sublimation on cotton
> 
> So sublimation ink is the right way to go for print on dark and Soft Hand


Looking closely at that photo ... umm nothing I would sell to a customer, the surface has obvious flaws.

Is this something you are selling?


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Looking closely at that photo ... umm nothing I would sell to a customer, the surface has obvious flaws.
> 
> Is this something you are selling?


Come down. 
Can you show us your Soft Hand sample on dark silk handkerchief.

Otherwise you don't understand how difficult task that is. This is just one step in the right direction

And it is simply showing that we can get SOFT HAND effect also that you have to pay something for something. And that it is long way to go for perfect result.

So once again would like to see your sample on the same material. 

Is that possible?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

adriatic said:


> Come down.
> Can you show us your Soft Hand sample on dark silk handkerchief.
> 
> Otherwise you don't understand how difficult task that is. This is just one step in the right direction
> ...


What you show is interesting but obviously needs a lot of work, the surface flaws and obvious complicated process are a deal breaker for me.

I don't have any processes I am peddling, so makes no sense for me to demo anything. But if I did I would make sure it demonstrated that it was viable to sell to a customer first.

Anyway, good luck on getting this ready for prime time, but it does have some way to go.


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Thanks you for the offer, but I have nothing to "merge". Good luck in your endeavors.


You have not understood these technical issues. We could merge:
this sublimation on 100% cotton process









and

this pigment Acrylic ink Soft Hand transfer on dark process









And get something new.
Sublimation on Dark 100% Cotton Soft hand

But OK no problem. I will do that some other time.

If you want something other Soft Hand for dark cotton than Acrylic ink or DTG ink transfer on rubber of Flock paper you can get it on every corner. But these T shirt are very unpleasant to wear.

Even you can try that JPS paper of yours with white transfer foil. Take a look at this sample on dark Cotton. But again you can see how the pigment colors have sank in the white back ground. 

So sublimation is the right way to go. And we are back on subject.


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

adriatic said:


> Come down.
> Can you show us your Soft Hand sample on dark silk handkerchief.
> 
> Otherwise you don't understand how difficult task that is. This is just one step in the right direction
> ...


Thanks AD,

Your contribution is great & adding more knowledge of the subject, i had done it pretty long time ago with the help of polyester cast resin. 
my point of view is, it is good for few pieces in bulk lots it is far expensive in terms of efforts & possible variations thus in cotton i go straight dtg or discharge cmyk digital for hand feel.
if you have time why don't you try reverse print on white means take black outta white make black background a part of a print & let me know if that works to create dark garments please. 

Best Regards

Khan


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

carpediemandmore said:


> Thanks AD,
> 
> Your contribution is great & adding more knowledge of the subject, i had done it pretty long time ago with the help of polyester cast resin.
> my point of view is, it is good for few pieces in bulk lots it is far expensive in terms of efforts & possible variations thus in cotton i go straight dtg or discharge cmyk digital for hand feel.
> ...


Thank you on your interest.

Franklyif you want my opinion on DTG I do think DTG on dark is not right way to go. It is invented because all vendor do have a great profit on this machinery. 
On servicing of this devices. 
And they do have a great profit on amount of white ink you need to cover dark substrate. 
Also they do have a nice margins on RIP software needed for these DTG solution. 

So if I do say NO to these DTG, you would hear instantly a crowd of Hawks spiting on anything that it is not in their interest.

Besides that what ever you take you have to made an impregnation on T shirt if you do not want to soak it with white ink. A not to pay a fortune because of that. Also if you want to have a rub safe T shirt, you need an after coating. 

So in general you do have three time consuming process. 
1. Prep. 2. Print 3. Final coating.
A lot of work just for an T shirt


So we have ask our self Can we do it differently. Complete out of Main Stream

Here is how it works
1. You print on transfer paper white silhouette with clear adhesive inkjet ink. 
2. Pure over a wet print suitable developer in powder
3. Develop image with hot air
4. Put a transfer paper on dark fabrics and heat press it
5. Peal of the transfer paper
6. Put a suitable white transfer foil and hat press ir
7. Peal of transfer paper and now you have a white on black

But if you have had printed in advance of this 1-7 procedure on the same paper or on same separate transfer paper the color image now after merging these twp prints you do have color on white and dark substrate. And this white transfer foil do cost you a dime comparing to white ink needed to cover dark substrate. 

And if you understand what I have been talking in the first place you would understand why you will never see this process commercially available.

OK?


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

Awesome AD,

I really appreciate your help and this is the true TSF spirit.

Best Regards


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

Definitely the L-2 is better


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

so how do i find that powder developer?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

adriatic said:


> Just going to put one more sample on the fire
> 
> Here are two samples.
> 
> ...


Why DTG with sublimation ink?

No wonder it is blurry.

Why not just a paper sublimation transfer?

Many of us make (or have made) lanyards sublimating. This makes no sense to coat something when you could use a 100% poly white lanyard and just sublimate it straight?

Also, in this case there could be no advantage theoretically doing a "soft hand" dark since that substrate is very small. 

Since you are printing full bleed over the substrate then the base color being white you effectively can make the entire thing any color without have to worry about "sublimating to dark". 

Unlike the problem you would have with a t-shirt or a large substrate that is dark.

I"m still not seeing any benefit to this. We can do these lanyards already, if yours is blurry it's your method, mine always came out very sharp.


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

carpediemandmore said:


> Definitely the L-2 is better


I think so as well

Do you want that I do scan that T shirt image on 100% cotton for you.


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

Sure why not if possible.


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

carpediemandmore said:


> Sure why not if possible.


Here it is

Can you feel how Soft this T shirt is. How it is wavy.
How the color are saturated and rich.

Also how this is Photo Quality transfer on Cotton 
You can see every detail.

??


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

AD :cooltee:

It is pretty awesome men you did it!


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

carpediemandmore said:


> AD :cooltee:
> 
> It is pretty awesome men you did it!


Yes I know 

But this is only Half Way to final Goal

Same thing and same quality and sane Soft hand Effect on Dark like what you get from DTG on dark but without impregnation. Without typical DTG investment and cost.

But this task is not as easy as it looks because pigment ink always sink in white underground. 

And the main trick is that in the last step you must not use heat press because in this case pigment always sink in white and looses a color purity.

Take a look at that dark kerchief, Second image in the row from top


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

carpediemandmore said:


> AD :cooltee:
> 
> It is pretty awesome men you did it!


Here is one more comparison

Chromablast vs Hybrid Print on Sublimation transfer paper

The printer is same ink is the same temperature and time is the same.

Both samples are printed in two pass with sublimation ink.

Can you see a difference in sharpness.

So you knew how transfer paper can be a great problem when it is not optimized.

If you look carefully you can see how on sample is flat while the other is wavy. relay Soft Hand


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

adriatic said:


> Here is one more comparison
> 
> Chromablast vs Hybrid Print on Sublimation transfer paper
> 
> ...


The correct Chromablast ink is not sublimation ink, why use sublimation ink with Chromablast paper.  

Every pigment inkjet transfer I do looks as good your "good" example. And after the first wash there is ZERO hand. It feels as good as sublimation does, In other words I feel nothing.

You purposely misrepresent the use of of Chromablast by applying it incorrectly then use it for "A" "B" comparison.


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Chromablast is not sublimation ink.
> 
> Every pigment inkjet transfer I do looks as good your "good" example. And after the first wash there is ZERO hand. It feels as good as sublimation does, In other words I feel nothing.


You have not answered my question. Is this polymer paper you like to talk about certified on healthy hazard under 12 year old children.

Is polymer in pigment ink certified on the same sublet. Are you using these certified product ?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

adriatic said:


> You have not answered my question. Is this polymer paper you like to talk about certified on healthy hazard under 12 year old children.
> 
> Is polymer in pigment ink certified on the same sublet. Are you using these certified product ?


I think you are confusing threads. I posted a link in your other threads.

You are ducking the the point I bring up, you are mis-using Chromablast then claiming your product is better.


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

I don't even know what this is about anymore.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

socceronly said:


> I don't even know what this is about anymore.


He is self promoting in another thread here and his question in this thread about the certification has no relevance. He is confusing 2 different threads.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Open Gasoline can and pour
Conde is releasing a paper in March called S Reveal I think that will allow dye subbing onto cotton.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

freebird1963 said:


> Open Gasoline can and pour
> Conde is releasing a paper in March called S Reveal I think that will allow dye subbing onto cotton.



Mark,

Is it for light or dark garments?


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## digitizewedo (Nov 2, 2010)

You can use water based inks for similar effect on 100 cotton t-shirts


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

mgparrish said:


> Mark,
> 
> Is it for light or dark garments?


Lights/Pastel.
link to original thread
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t644298.html


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## munkeybiz (Feb 2, 2018)

I’ve been seeing a lot of dye sub on cotton products lately. It seems that with certain papers, powders or sprays, this is possible. This doesn’t appear to be out of the realm of possibility. DTG printer requires a spray pre treatment, why not the same for dye sub on cotton? A special paper would be ideal. Any comments, complaints or advice? I’d like to print on some shirts, but also other home products, like pillows. Thanks.


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