# Using lithograph to print plastisol?



## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

Somebody revived an old thread about squeezing some plastisol into ink jet cartridges and was promptly informed that his idea would not work. Then somebody else asked about Stahls' process and was informed that Stahls uses a litho process.

Once upon a time I used to print flyers on a lithograph, so I know the ink is much thicker than the ink used in ink jet printers. It actually kinda looks like plastisol.

So, is this really what Stahls is doing? If not, y'all reckon it would be possible?


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## 613OriginalsRick (Sep 17, 2018)

Stahls Digital Transfers are printed with UV inks on a plotter onto a transfer substrate.


There are many challenges to what that person was proposing.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

This process is similar to how I do my process to transfer onto dark cotton shirts by using sublimation ink and removing it onto another paper by pressing white toner of the same design to it and then pressing that paper to the shirt.
AL


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I've heard it's possible to litho with plastisol but haven't seen it done, so maybe or maybe a myth.


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

Having never worked with plastisol, it seems to me that it would be quite easy to set up a lithograph to print whatever color you want--even a 4-color sim--and then print the white background on it. Once you get the alignment worked out it should look great. Then all you have to do is slather on that powder and run it through the dryer.

But what do I know? Besides, with the expense of burning the plates I'm sure you'd have to have a really long run in order to make it cost-effective.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

DrivingZiggy said:


> Having never worked with plastisol, it seems to me that it would be quite easy to set up a lithograph to print whatever color you want--even a 4-color sim--and then print the white background on it. Once you get the alignment worked out it should look great. Then all you have to do is slather on that powder and run it through the dryer.
> 
> But what do I know? Besides, with the expense of burning the plates I'm sure you'd have to have a really long run in order to make it cost-effective.


what do you think of this Ziggy 'Kitchen Lithopgraphy'?

pretty interesting technique and result (look at that crazy finger bend at 3:53, she must be double-jointed/alien-tech)


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

Guys... it's not rocket science!
Modern lithography (offset printing) is probably why Stahls call it litho, and that is what everybody is using for these stretchable transfers when producing high volume (500+). For smaller orders a solvent inkjet printer is used.

Keep in mind that these transfers are not made with plastisol (which is PVC), but polyurethane based inks. I know it's confusing because people call things whatever they want. The same thing with Vinyl films...they are not really vinyl, at least not any more. They are also polyurethane. 

Now... Could you use something else, like those ancient type lithographs? Of course you could... The ink doesn't care how you apply it. But is it practical? No it isn't.


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

into the T said:


> what do you think of this Ziggy 'Kitchen Lithopgraphy'?
> 
> pretty interesting technique and result (look at that crazy finger bend at 3:53, she must be double-jointed/alien-tech)


Holy smokes that's a lot of work for crap results! Don't get me wrong: I applaud her ingenuity and artistic skills. But that was a LOT of work. And the result looks like something a child would bring home from school and only a mother could love it. Oh, and quite time-consuming.





TABOB said:


> Guys... it's not rocket science!
> Modern lithography (offset printing) is probably why Stahls call it litho, and that is what everybody is using for these stretchable transfers when producing high volume (500+). For smaller orders a solvent inkjet printer is used.
> 
> Keep in mind that these transfers are not made with plastisol (which is PVC), but polyurethane based inks. I know it's confusing because people call things whatever they want. The same thing with Vinyl films...they are not really vinyl, at least not any more. They are also polyurethane.
> ...


Well, you know me. I get fascinated by something and it brings up some kind of idea--whether good or bad or crazy--and I investigate. You'd think that in these days of computer advances that somebody would have come up with a printer that could do it kinda like a Brother GTX with one pass, except with the white printing after the CMYK. Oh, and with an auto-feed for the transfer paper. If not a one pass system like that, then at least with a printer that will read the registration marks not unlike a plotter and then lay down the white.


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

DrivingZiggy said:


> You'd think that in these days of computer advances that somebody would have come up with a printer that could do it kinda like a Brother GTX with one pass, except with the white printing after the CMYK. Oh, and with an auto-feed for the transfer paper. If not a one pass system like that, then at least with a printer that will read the registration marks not unlike a plotter and then lay down the white.



I think that would infringe on some patents still held by Sawgrass. 

If I remember correctly, some of their patents were little to do with sublimation and more to do with 'applying ink (from an inkjet printer) direct to fabric _via transfer paper_'.


I have been saying for a few years that the ultimate incarnation for DTG would be as a transfer technology, as you are suggesting. Roll to roll wide format printers are far cheaper to make than current DTG printers with moving flatbeds. As the printer is the most expensive part of the equation it makes sense to eliminate the downtime associated with changing the garment.


As things stand the closest is DST which combines a laser print with a screen printed plastisol backing layer.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

DrivingZiggy said:


> You'd think that in these days of computer advances that somebody would have come up with a printer that could do it kinda like a Brother GTX with one pass, except with the white printing after the CMYK.


 Inkjet printers can be configured to print the white on top of the colors, but then you have to apply the adhesive and cure the ink. It may be possible with the right combination of inks. Regular DTG inks will not work.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

My patent is similar to what to what brought up about other patents.
Mine has to do with sublimation dyes and white toners. It can be screened printed onto a laser paper with white toner or printed by litho using dye inks and laser white toner.
I made a mixture of sublimation & litho ink to print a large Hip Hop designs by litho years ago for a customer and it was a great transfer. Very bright onto 100% cotton. Required very heavy pressure to transfer. We Could have run a white over it for darks if it was necessary but it wasn,t .


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

sublial said:


> I made a mixture of sublimation & litho ink


 What exactly is "mixture of sublimation & litho ink"? You probably mean sublimation offset ink... Nothing special about it, and not ideal in my opinion as sublimation ink will probably need longer pressing times.


What this thread made me think about is possibly using UV inks for the CMYK part, and solvent white with adhesive powder on top. This might work for producing a fully digital transfer.


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

TABOB said:


> What this thread made me think about is possibly using UV inks for the CMYK part, and solvent white with adhesive powder on top. This might work for producing a fully digital transfer.


Logo Jet sold a UV printer that also did DTG at one point. But I don't see them advertising it any more. I think you had to change out the ink cartridges to do it, though, so probably not what you're thinking.


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## TABOB (Feb 13, 2018)

DrivingZiggy said:


> Logo Jet sold a UV printer that also did DTG at one point. But I don't see them advertising it any more. I think you had to change out the ink cartridges to do it, though, so probably not what you're thinking.


What I'm thinking is using 2 types of ink together. Fill the CMYK channels with UV ink that will dry with the UV light, and the white channel with solvent ink that will stay wet. This way the adhesive powder can stick to the white ink layer, the same way as when screen printed. Theoretically this should work, and can definitely be printed on cold peel release paper.


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