# Washability from different DTG Ink, proceedures and manufacturers?



## lisad35 (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm new here and to the DTG -- I am researching which printer to buy. My concern for which printer is two-fold:

1. quality of the original print
2. washability of the print

I plan on doing "fine art" printing -- which includes detailed artwork and photography. I want to purchase a machine that is going to give me bright vibrant colors - good, clean whites, and not fade after a dozen washings. (I've read a lot of the forums about the different machines, but no one has mentioned photographs or longevity of prints)

Can you experienced folks let me know your experience with your brand of machine with photographs and washability?

thank you so much!
Lisa


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

On a white t-shirt you're going to get fading after a couple of washes. Its the nature of DTG inks and cotton fibres after a couple of washes. With good ink saturation and curing though you can minimize it.

The white ink is pretty clean as it is. Its only going to get better. You'll most likely not get as vibrant print as screen-printing but you'll get some very nice full color prints in general.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

One thing I'd like to add, is that substrate matters. Even on spot color printing with screen printing there will be defibrilation (fibers standing up in the ink after washings). This is even more the case with 4 color process screen printing. If you are dealing with "fine art" note that some colors are out of gamut in the realm of CMYK. This may change with the addition in the future of hexachrome or channel spot additions to the pallette of colors on some printers. The example that I use most often with clients, is if you take a photograph, see it duplicated on newsprint and glossy magazine stock, the winner will be the magazine stock because it's a better substrate. There will be some loss in the translation. Washability.... The issues at hand are, how well the substrate is pretreated, the amount of ink used, and how much care was given to the curing of the ink. The fact that inkjet lays down a very thin coat of ink is good in the way that it can be easily cured, it is bad in the way that since it is a physical bond that holds it to a shirt, there is less of a physical presents to it and thus can be compromised more easily. Also only the face of the fiber thats facing the printhead gets coated. I have pure white ink prints on 100% cotton done on my Anajet that look as good after 20 or so washes as they did the day I printed them. Inkjet printing "is what it is" and the more I use it the more I understand what it can do. If you have an idea of what you would consider a tough print, have it done by some of the distributors or still better yet, someone who has used a unit in the real world. Let them know what you expect, and see if it is going to meet your expectations. If you see any t-shirt out there with a print that you think is good, there was a lot of consideration that went into making it perfect, but that "perfection" had to be tempered and interpreted to make it affordable. Good luck on your quest.


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

Honestly not much has to do with the brand of the machine as much as the type of ink it is using. If you are talking white ink then look for a machine that uses dupont white.


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## ledpenny (Jul 18, 2007)

I spent 14000 on a machine and am disappointed every time I see my own shirts fade away with every wash. Old stiff transfers I made on my laserjet hold up better, on a printer that cost me less than 3000. Seeing that US Screenprint has folded, partly because of their dtg support is an eye opener. Durability is an important part of the shirt business. Hopefully someone will invent an ink system that rescues this doomed business.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

IMO any DTG printer should invest in a conveyor dryer. The inks need a much longer cure time that what is suggested / advertised to get a long lasting print.
If you are pressing the shirt for 3 min in the heat press you are going to have a very low production capacity.

When we started, we were always looking for ways including switching inks to get a shorter cure time in the end it comes down to heat + time.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> Honestly not much has to do with the brand of the machine as much as the type of ink it is using. If you are talking white ink then look for a machine that uses dupont white.


I'd like to add to this - proper curing and the brand/type of shirt also effect washability. The more the shirt fibrilates when washed (actually more in the drying stage) the more quickly the inks will fade (actually be washed away with the fibers).


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## Brian-R (Apr 21, 2008)

lisad35 said:


> I'm new here and to the DTG -- I am researching which printer to buy. My concern for which printer is two-fold:
> 
> 1. quality of the original print
> 2. washability of the print
> ...


I agree with most of the posts above.
The durability is more dependent on procedure than on brand. I had a shirt sent to me by a sales rep and a couple of months later I got another one from the same brand printer at a show. One is still holding up but the other was not wearable after about a dozen washes or so. 
The pretreat, print settings, substrate and cure all have an affect on the durability of the print.

Brian


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## ipsd (Apr 21, 2009)

I too am looking into these printers and cannot decide between TJet and DTG...I screen print now and have a conveyor dryer...are you saying that instead of pressing the shirts to put them through the dryer? For how long and what heat? And if curing makes that much of a difference, should I not be dwelling so much on the type of printer, maybe more towards the price factor?
Thanks


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## Belquette (Sep 12, 2005)

ipsd said:


> I too am looking into these printers and cannot decide between TJet and DTG...I screen print now and have a conveyor dryer...are you saying that instead of pressing the shirts to put them through the dryer? For how long and what heat? And if curing makes that much of a difference, should I not be dwelling so much on the type of printer, maybe more towards the price factor?
> Thanks


Yes you can use your conveyor dryer.
Typical times vary depending on your dryer but your temperature needs to be about 350 -360 f.at the shirt surface.
I have seen white tee's take 2 -4 and dark's (with white ink) 3 -7.
The type of printer has little to do with the curing process as this is determined by the ink.

As far as wash tests you can request a sample to evaluate that yourself, even using one of your own images that you know well. 
This is also a very good way to look at the quality _of the same print sample _side by side from different manufactures. 
Pick an image with lots of detail and fines lines that will demonstrate the printers ability to accurately produce the graphic.
I can guarantee if done right it will bring a tear to your eye, maybe both.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

The only printers that really use different ink are Brother, Kornit, and then pretty much all the epson based printers use the same ink such as dtg, tjet, anajet and flexijet. So if you notice differences in the epson based machines, it probably had to do with the differences they were printed with, more then the ink.

With my HM1 I get outstanding print results and great washability. It does take time to learn the magic formula that works , but once you get it down, its easy to repeat. 

I would seriously consider though buying a tjet as us screen has gone out of business, so some parts in the future may be hard to come by. 

Speaking of tjets, does anyone know anything about Equipment zones new machine they are coming out with? I got an email from them, that they have a new machine. Dont know what it is called but I would like to hear more about it  Harry? Alex?


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I think the name of this post should be changed to the following:

Washability between different operators, using different inks, printing with a different print engine/print head, driven by a different RIP/Driver, from a different graphic software program, on to a different brand/color/size of garment manufactured in a different country, cured by a different heat source at a different setting with or without direct pressure, washed by a different laundry equipment, using different laundry chemicals, letting it sit in the washing equipment wet for a different amount of time (that is for us single guys!), dryed at different heat settings and worn by different people in a variety of activities.

That should cover most of the variables that could affect the overall look of the print on the garment. So BobbieLee, do you have the ability to change the name of the post? 

Mark

P.S. This was stated to emphasis that there are more factors that go into how good a print looks on a shirt than just which dtg printer was used.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I made a slight change Mark haha, however that other one is a little too long


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> Speaking of tjets, does anyone know anything about Equipment zones new machine they are coming out with? I got an email from them, that they have a new machine. Dont know what it is called but I would like to hear more about it  Harry? Alex?




Bobbie,

Stay tuned. 


Harry - Equipment Zone


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