# First Embroidery Machine - advice needed



## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hello everybody,
Me and my wife thinking about starting our own small embroidery business.And need a advice: which machine is a good starting machine? So many choices...

For right now We are thinking about Brother 650. 
Is it a good choice ???

Thanks in advance !


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## shezmc (Nov 9, 2010)

SAS73 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Me and my wife thinking about starting our own small embroidery business.And need a advice: which machine is a good starting machine? So many choices...
> 
> For right now We are thinking about Brother 650.
> ...


I looked at a few machines and from what I reas brother always came up  I'm
Sure someone will be able to help u here I would be interested to know aswell


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## ppts160 (Jan 16, 2011)

We have a 620 and 650. They are both pretty good although I had a problem with the main board in the 620 and it took over 2 months to get the new part from brother. Apart from that they have both preformed well. I would advise you to look carefully at the design software you choose. The brother software is very limited. I eventually went for DecoStudio which has been good but I am sure others on the forum will give you their preferences.


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## catdog (Nov 26, 2010)

hey mike, i've been using ped for 10 years. Because it the only software i've used i don't know what i'm missing. Can you tell me some benefits to Decostudio that are not in ped. I also have figured out how to create my file in corel draw and use some layering tecniques in ped. Thanks, Anna


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## MrRudeDog (Aug 24, 2010)

SAS73 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Me and my wife thinking about starting our own small embroidery business.And need a advice: which machine is a good starting machine? So many choices...
> 
> For right now We are thinking about Brother 650.
> ...



We started with a Brother 2500 ONE needle emb/sewing machine about 4 years ago, but moved up to a Brother 620 within a year. The 620 has probably paid for itself twice. There is a good Yahoo group that I've learned so much from. The PED software is a bit limited, but easy to learn.

2 years ago we added a Tajima Neo Plus 15 needle machine with the Pulse "Illustrator Extreme" software. We use that software to digitize everything for the Tajima and for "fancy" stuff on the Brother 620.

We use both machines (the one needle is used mostly for sewing) on a daily basis. The Tajima is faster and more robust, but it should be, it cost twice as much.

Take care!

Ray


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## ArrowheadGFX (Feb 21, 2011)

The advice that I can give you is this, do your homework. I have a Brother PR600. Although, limited in number of colors, it has been a champ. I bought it back in 2002 and have not had a problem. I do a lot of sports uniforms, names, numbers, and hats. Just a thought, you may have to research the needles and thread that you use on particular jobs. There is also digitizing. I do my own digitizing and it could be a job in its self. I went to a 3 day digitizing class and well worth it. Before, I had to sub this out. Nothing like waiting for someone to do the work and not getting it on time and it could be costly and dig into your profits.

Marcus


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## mark91 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi,
Use barudan it is really excellent machine with the best quality i am also using barudan i have 38 12head machines.
if you are looking for Production dont buy single takeup liver machine
if you are looking to make for 1 or 2 pcs so buy single takeup liver machine.


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## ppts160 (Jan 16, 2011)

Well Serge like I said you will get plenty of opinions and you have so I hope it all helps. On the question about the PED software as Ray stated it is very limited and when you digitize with it there is a lot of work cleaning the work up. I find deco gives a much cleaner finish with far less clean up to do But this will be true of other packages also. It comes with corelX4 as part of the system and you can clean up the artwork before converting to stitches. Ray uses "Illustrator Extreme" which is again probably a more accurate system than PED.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I have 2 PR600ii's, they are complete workhorses... If I were looking to start out now, I'd probably opt for the new PR1000 - the 10 needles are sufficient for 95% of the work you will do. PE-Design will also handle 99% of the work you will do if you are doing simple shirt and hat logo's. 

We added an SWF/E-1501T for handling jacket backs since the Brothers have a smaller sewing field.


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## freeblazer (Sep 25, 2009)

Tajima - all the way

I run 2- 6 heads daily, they are 99 & 00 models.

Very little trouble, mostly things that go wrong are my fault.

I had a brother single head (416, I think)to start with, I bought the Brother, back then Tajima didn't make a 1 head machine. I paid 18,500.00 for that machine. WOW, how times have changed. It was Ok, but Tajima was MUCH better. That was about 15 years ago though.

What ever you buy, make sure you can do caps.
And a machine with large hoops, comes in handy when doing jacket backs and other large items.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

Toyota ESP9100NET. It can do everything and has a very large range of accessories also.

-James Leonard


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone for Your input!
I did some homework and found that nearest Brother dealer is 100 miles away, still have no idea about the price.
$7000-10000 range? 
Then Tajima neo is probably $15000 - $20000 ?
Thanks again!!!


PS Babylock is the Brother's clone?


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

I just got my first embroidery machine last year and I went with a Brother PR-650. I have been pleased with it and think it was a good choice for a beginner like myself.


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## Fawneyes (Nov 27, 2007)

I have alway run with Brother and they seem to stand up very well


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## abchung (Jul 16, 2009)

We have several Barudan, they are great and reliable. I also heard Tajima is pretty good. It like Ford vs GM.
I just went to a show, they had this machine from Amaya XTS that is single head and can be LAN to the computer. The computer software can control up to 30 machines. So it is good for people who wants to start up slowly. Then add 1 head at a time. I think the down side is, it will cost a fortune to do it this way.
The most impressive thing is they have variable yarn tension controlled by the computer, it is great for special effects. I don't know if Barudan or Tajima has this function but I will be checking them out at the next big show.


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## Limara (Aug 25, 2008)

Hi I have been embroidering for years on home machines, have had both Janomes and Brothers went to a second hand Brother pr600 last year, I wish I had bought this machine years ago love it!
If your budget will allow as some one else has mentioned the new 10 thread machine looks great although I havent seen one working, just the extra colours would be handy.
As some one else has mentioned dont waste your money on pe design its the most over rated over priced software I have ever had the misfourtune to purchase! I started out with v4, have tried out seven and got 6 with my machine none of them are better than the other.
If you only want to do lettering Embird with the font engine plug in would be the best way to go and is dead simple to use. they also do a digitizing software plug in I dont have hany experience with it but have seen on forums many people love it.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

The Toyota ESP9100NET is identical to the Tajima Neo 2 and is made in the same factory (Tokai) from Tajima parts. It can be networked like the Amaya or run free standing.

It can be bought for $12,000 - $13,000 including a starter kit. You can get it from Pantograms (East coast dealer) or DataStitch (Midwest and west coast dealer).

I LOVE my Toyota!

-James Leonard


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## sassystitches (Sep 16, 2010)

One thing to think about with the 10 needle Brother is the cost difference vs going to the commercial machines. The 10 needle in my opinion is over-priced. Generally the prices include just the basics on the Brother machines where as the commercial machine pricing generally includes 2 of every hoop, 2 cap hoops, etc. Cost of additional hoops, stand, cap driver, etc add up really quickly. I know the Brother dealer pricing differs greatly by region so maybe some are getting a super deal but for very little more than the quotes I have heard you can get a full commercial machine with at least double the needles, way faster, larger embroidery field, etc. 

In my opinion if you use a Brother to get into the embroidery field you would want to buy a cheaper PR-650 or even a used Brother machine just to test the waters and get going and then decide on your needs for your next machine. I own a PR-650, I don't regret it but I would not pay the very high premiums I have heard on the PR-1000 ten needle. I think my investment in the PR-650 was a cheaper way for me to get into embroidery and it has suited my needs well. If I wanted to add to my business I would either add another PR-650 or a full commercial machine, I would not consider the PR-1000 unless it had a significant price drop. The Brother PR series are great machines and fit a good market but it isn't a commercial machine and should be priced accordingly. Again, just my opinion.


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks again guys for all Your help!
Today I found a BabyLock dealer in my area (small shop)
The did not have them in the shop but can sell it to me.
For example :
BMP9 6 needle single head for - $8100
($6500 for machine with studio plus software and 1600 for a metal stand).


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## sassystitches (Sep 16, 2010)

SAS73 said:


> Thanks again guys for all Your help!
> Today I found a BabyLock dealer in my area (small shop)
> The did not have them in the shop but can sell it to me.
> For example :
> ...


$1600 for just the stand is WAY to high. I assume that $1600 includes other things also such as the cap driver and frames. Overall that package price is a little high for my area, not much though. Try to ask some questions that will let you know about their service on these machines, some dealers know little to nothing about these machines and that could be a problem if you ever need service.


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks to all!
Question about software:
My wife is working in CorelDraw, is it any software available that can convert coreldraw vector files into files that Embroidery machine will accept ?


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

Embird can use CorelDRAW CMX files and Wilcom can use CDR files directly (Both DecoStudio and Embroidery Studio).

Drawings can also read a CDR file. (DrawStitch.com)

The free Sierra Stitch Era Universal can take CorelDRAW designs by cut-and-paste.

-James Leonard


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

SAS73 said:


> is it any software available that can convert coreldraw vector files into files that Embroidery machine will accept ?


Accept, yes, lots of programs. Acceptable embroidery results? I haven't seen one yet.

The only people who will tell you that embroidery software converts vector files into acceptable embroidery files is the people who are selling embroidery software. 

Anything automatically generated will need to be modified. If you are going to have to re-do everything, why not just do it right from the start?


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

jemmyell said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> The free Sierra Stitch Era Universal can take CorelDRAW designs by cut-and-paste.
> ...


Is it really free?
Where I can download it?


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

TFALK ,
Which software would You recommend for a newbie?


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Tough question... I only have experience with Brother PE-Design and Sierra's Embroidery Office (EO) and Stitch Era Universal (SEU). SEU is the stripped down free version of EO. I've been frustrated beyond belief with both of them due to software bugs and crashes... when they work, they work well. When they crash, they will annoy you beyond belief... That being said, I just upgraded to Version 11 of EO and it seems to be a bit better so far. If I had to do it over, I would never spend the kind of money I did for this software without seeing/using it first.

PE-Design is a very stable product that will do most of the things I needed to do. In 4 years, I've never crashed the program once compared to crashing EO several times a day. At the same time, PE-Design doesn't have the same level of capabilities that EO does but it's also a lot cheaper. It's a tradeoff...

Try the new version of SEU, see if it does what you need it to do. Their next step up is Liberty which I think is around a grand? From what I've read, Wilcom sounds to be the Cadillac of embroidery software.


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

I switched from EO to wilcom. All the difference in the world.


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Guys , tell me what I am doing wrong?
I am shopping for a brother/baby lock machine in my state, and having problems getting a quotes.
When I ask to fax me a quote they say ok will fax it to You, but to this moment I only got one fax with one line saying that PR 650 MSRP is 10200.
That`s all! (My fax is OK).

I never bought an emb machine before. Is it a normal situation?
One guy over the phone told me that it their policy on multi needles machines is not to give any prices over the phone or the internet....

Not only that, last Wednesday I took some time form my day work and drove 1.5hrs (one way) for a machine demonstration (brother) and lady in the shop did not know what she was doing. Whean I asked for a price She told me that she need a talk to her boss, and will call me later that day, and will send me a fax , today is a Saturday still nothing...


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

Serge;
I think you will find that the dealers for these machines are very worried that people who ask for quotes (remotely) are just competitors trying to find out what their prices are. I find it very difficult to get pricing from anyone. I am 6 hours away from a city that has dealers, and it frustrates me to no end. Even getting accessory pricing is difficult.

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of personal visits to get pricing, at least that was my experience.

Good luck,
Randy


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## sassystitches (Sep 16, 2010)

SAS73 said:


> Guys , tell me what I am doing wrong?
> I am shopping for a brother/baby lock machine in my state, and having problems getting a quotes.
> When I ask to fax me a quote they say ok will fax it to You, but to this moment I only got one fax with one line saying that PR 650 MSRP is 10200.
> That`s all! (My fax is OK).
> ...


One other thing is some of these small shops sell just a handful of these machines a year and know little to nothing about them. This is important to remember when thinking about just driving it in for service.


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## sitzerlandwyo (Jan 20, 2011)

Haveing just bought a PR 1000 I may be a little biased but we have a friend in the next town who has a brother PR 600 it is 10 years old has 33 million stitches on it and the only problem he had was a motor that burned up after embroidering 300carhart heavy zippered sweat shirts and then 300 Carhartt arctic coats.
so 600 Carhart coats on a PR 600 thats a tough machine. Other than that just dealer serviced every 1500 hours and still runs.

Then there is a lady that has a Pr 600. She does all the uniform name tags at the local base 280 million stitches always in black. She had the needle bar wear out and replaced.



Thats why we chose Brother


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

OK , Best price I found is Baby Lock BMP9 for $6200 (just a machine) and $625 for a capframe with Jig.

Plus TAX


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## sassystitches (Sep 16, 2010)

SAS73 said:


> OK , Best price I found is Baby Lock BMP9 for $6200 (just a machine) and $625 for a capframe with Jig.
> 
> Plus TAX


Now that is the kind of pricing I am hearing around here, try to get a Brother dealer to give you that price and then check this out:

[media]http://www.brother-usa.com/VirData/PromoPDFs//March_SellSheet_Claim_LQ.pdf[/media]

I have no clue how this works but if you can negotiate your best price (pricing you gave for the Babylock is about right) and then also get the rebate that would be awesome. I know around here the pricing you gave on the Babylock seems to be right.


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Well, all Brother`s dealers gave same price, ( they want to sell a package)

PR-650 
CAP HOOP
STAND
STARTING KIT
Total is: *$8999*

Bonus:
$1000 shopping spree in their store 
Brother will mail me PE - NEXT


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## heartmadeforyou (Oct 31, 2007)

SAS73 said:


> TFALK ,
> Which software would You recommend for a newbie?


Take a look at Embird. I believe you can download a trial version. The price is very reasonable and the support and updates are great. Best part is you don't need a dongle to run the software.

Not affiliated, just a happy customer.


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## SAS73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wow!
We finally bought It today! 
Brother PR-650
We are very excited !!!
We have a lot to learn now.


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## Laurie Harper (Mar 28, 2011)

Hi Limara, I have a TOYOTA ESP 830 LIKE NEW for SALE. This machine was purchased NEW from Pantograms several years ago. It has always been immacuately kept & is a WORKHORSE! It comes with software, design book & disk as well as many digitized design, OVESTOCK T's, HATS & SWEATSHIRTS. This is a 9 needle single head machine that has NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. It is a perfect complement to a larger system or as an initial machine for a start-up business. We also have a multitude of threads, a hat hoop, shirt & jacket back hoops for sale separately or as a package. We are no longer in the embroidery business & are looking to sell everything to the right buyer MUST SELL ALL ASAP. Please contact with interest.


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## Wrightdesign (Jun 7, 2009)

I have a SWF 15 needle full size and I LOVE it!  It is a workhorse. I also have a 6 needle brother /babylock and I like it to but it is now comparison to the SWF. Great Support group to on yahoogroups.com and from the company.


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## racsam2006 (Apr 26, 2011)

i have a 2009 swf 6 needle for sale if u wnat more info. let me know phone number is 6183934601
thanks 
rachel


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