# copyright issue and unofficial music tees? i need help



## bthekid (May 3, 2010)

hi everyone..i want to make music tees with song lyrics..but i have questions about copyright things..i saw a website called Bathroom Wall, T-Shirts for the Jilted Generation which says that:
*Our T-shirts are not the licensed merchandise of any of the artists or bands mentioned (just look at the header of each page that says 'Gloriously Un-Official T-shirts'), this is one of the reasons that we do not place any trademarked logos or names on them. We do not represent our products in any way as official merchandise and only offer our designs to fans wanting an alternative to the official band products*


*BathroomWall / SRnR Ltd is in no way affiliated to, associated with or sponsored by any of the bands or artists featured on this website. None of those named on this website have endorsed these products and we do not hold them out to have any connection with them. This website is neither affiliated to nor associated or sponsored by any of the bands or artists named*


*If you wish to purchase official band or artist merchandise you should contact the relevant authorised dealer. *

if i give an information like this on my website, will it be OK for the copyright issue? Can you please help me?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

No, this will not protect you from intellectual property infringement. Names, photos, lyrics, song names, album names, etc are all intellectual property of the musicians, songwriters and production companies involved. The info listed simply states they are not officially licensed, but that does not mean it's ok to infringe. It's possible that they have a separate agreement that allows them certain usage, but i doubt it. There are many counts of infringement on their website.


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## Teeser (May 14, 2008)

With text like that, it sounds like they think they can protect themselves from a whole host of legal charges: consumer fraud, possibly mail fraud, trademark infringement, selling counterfeit goods etc. If the customer knows its a fake then they weren't defrauded. And it follows that if customer wasn't defrauded then it wasn't mail fraud. We told customers it wasn't Band X merchandise thus it isn't "counterfeit" Band X. I don't know if the disclaimer would hold up as a defense. I'm certainly not endorsing it in anyway and am just guessing as to their rationale.

Here's a link to a case involving infringement that was in the news just days ago Federal Judge Orders ‘Heal the World’ Group to Stop Exploiting Michael Jackson’s Name | Earth Times News


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## bthekid (May 3, 2010)

thanks for the information given me..beside music tees i also want to make fashion related tees..is it legal to use fashion brand name or their similar logos as for a joke on a tee? i also saw those kind of designs and i just wonder is it legal?


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Loads of threads on copyright/trademark/fraud.
You can explain that it isn't official merchandise which will ensure that the customer isn't buying it as such. But that's really just a guilty plea to copyright & trademark infringement.
If you didn't originate it, you can't use it.
You can have a defence of parody, but it's just a defence, maybe...maybe not, ask the judge.


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## bthekid (May 3, 2010)

thxx for your advices..my final q is about the quotations.. can i use quotations from musicians, artists, celebs on t-shirts? does this have something to do with copyrights?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

bthekid said:


> thxx for your advices..my final q is about the quotations.. can i use quotations from musicians, artists, celebs on t-shirts? does this have something to do with copyrights?


It's hard to say, it may depend on the specific quote. But if it is obviously related to a musician, artist or celeb, then there is always a risk to be sued.

There's really no way to use potentially copyrighted or trademarked material legally without some level of risk. This is why copyrights and trademarks exist, they are to protect the intellectual property owner and prevent others from profiting off infringement.

It seems like you are really wanting to toe the line of infringement rather than create your own original artwork. The best advice you can receive is to go contact an intellectual property attorney and learn what you can and cannot do from an experienced legal professional.

If you already have a following of customers or can generate a following of customers, another option would be to purchase wholesale t-shirts from a licensed distributor. You would only be able to purchase the shirts they are offering, not create your own designs, but it would allow you to resell band merchandise without those pesky lawsuits.


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## bthekid (May 3, 2010)

actually my aim was to design fashionable music tees..the ones belong to music bands etc. are generally have ordinary designs..but i have to give up my idea because it sounds very risky..thanks for helping me about this issue..


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

I think designing fashionable music tees is a good idea. Just try to keep the designs original and generic, and not include lyrics, band names, etc. I'm sure you can come up with some cool ideas. Good luck!


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## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

You are just asking to be sued silly. 
The best rule of thumb is that if you didn't come up with it, don't do it. 
Unless you're buying stock art to use. 
Otherwise, get yourself an attorney and lots of money, cause you're gonna need it, both for the lawyer and for the big penalties.

Be smart


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

How about the shirt? Is printing on say a Hanes, and reselling the printed shirt simply as it is, or as a Hanes shirt with custom print, perfectly legal?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Yes, printing on a Hanes shirt and reselling it is perfectly legal. You just can't reproduce someone else's copyrighted and trademarked artwork.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

kimura-mma said:


> Yes, printing on a Hanes shirt and reselling it is perfectly legal. You just can't reproduce someone else's copyrighted and trademarked artwork.


That's clear enough.

But what if I put an ad(or upload it to an on-line shop) with the Hanes name and logo on it?


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## Dain Oir (Feb 8, 2010)

BroJames said:


> That's clear enough.
> 
> But what if I put an ad(or upload it to an on-line shop) with the Hanes name and logo on it?


It is still illegal. You would probably get away with it but they still have the ability to do so. Just because you use their shirt to print on doesn't give you the right to their branding.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

Yep....you bought their shirt so you have fair use to wear or decorate it but using their logo as part of the decoration is a infringement unless you have their permission. The logo is intellectual property, the shirt isn't....unless?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BroJames said:


> But what if I put an ad(or upload it to an on-line shop) with the Hanes name and logo on it?


If the Hanes logo is only featured on the neck label of the shirt, exactly as you bought it, it would be ok. Once you start using their logo outside of those confines, you could have issues. You can mention that your brand is printed on Hanes, but any attempt to make an official connection with your brand and Hanes is a problem.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

kimura-mma said:


> If the Hanes logo is only featured on the neck label of the shirt, exactly as you bought it, it would be ok. Once you start using their logo outside of those confines, you could have issues. You can mention that your brand is printed on Hanes, but any attempt to make an official connection with your brand and Hanes is a problem.



I don't mean printing "Hanes" on the shirt. Just aside from mentioning it, you also put the Hanes logo on your on-line shop(not the shirt). 

OSCommerce has a category named "manufacturer" and you can upload the manufacturer's logo. Based on what I you said, it seems that I can enter the name Hanes as manufacturer wihout any problems. (1)But can I also upload the Hanes logo to OSCommerce? (2) Can I link to Hanes' webpage? (OSCommerce allows you to enter an url of the manufacturer). Are 1 & 2 above considered as making an official connection? (2) Am I correct in understanding that under product description, I can mention that the shirt is made by Hanes but I should not put the Hanes logo on it?

Thanks to all for your thoughts and advice.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

You can probably include all of that info (name, logo and website) into OSCommerce without any problems from Hanes.

But to be honest, I don't know why you'd want to. If you are trying to sell *your* brand, why do you want so much info about some other brand? To me, that's just a poor way of branding yourself. Just mention you are using Hanes blanks, I wouldn't upload a logo or link a website.

Here's a good example why...
I just went to the Hanes website and they are advertising "Buy Two Short Sleeve Tees, Get 3rd Tee Free." Basically, you can get 3 shirts at $6 each. They are also advertising a 3-pack of white tees for $8. That's less than $3 each. Are you selling your tees for $3-6? Probably not. So why a link a site that's basically telling your customers that you are overcharging for the same exact shirt?


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Its just an example Tim. People here can be brand conscious. 

But I wouldn't use hanes because their plain white shirts cost about twice as much as what we sell our CMYK printed shirts. And at $3 they retail them here at about triple the price. All well known brands should post the same pricing problem.

But I am also thinking that since some local brands sells both plain and printed shirts, with their plain shirts retailing for about P200 local currency and their printed selling for about P450-600, the margin may make it feasible(because of the "branded" mentality).


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