# Positives of dtg printing?



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Every once and a while, I read threads where people have old information about direct to garment printing. The vast majority of these arguments are no longer valid because of the advances in machines, inks and pretreatments. So I wanted to start a thread asking you as an owner of a direct to garment printer, what are the positives of dtg printing? What did you struggle with and eventually find out how to do?

Years ago, I had someone teach me about stretch when creating printing plates for corrugation. She started out by saying this is confusing, it's hard to understand, you won't get it right away, etc., etc., etc. Well, it was extremely difficult for me to grasp the concept. After a couple of months, I sat down, opened up a book regarding the subject and was able to figure it out in a matter of minutes. A switch clicked on in my brain and I said, "Oh, is that all there is too it?" She gave me the expectation of how hard it was going to be, and that's exactly what it became to me.

Months later, we hired someone new and she was training a new employee. The same problem had occurred with him. The owner pulled me off to the side and asked my opinion on whether we should keep him or not because he wasn't learning fast enough. I said give me a week to train him and I guarantee you, he will understand. The first thing I did was observe his practices. He wasn't even holding an exacto knife correctly, so I asked him if he ever cut with an exacto, he said never. So I showed him that. But then came stretch.

The concept is simple, printing with flexography requires you to make printing plates out of plastics or rubber. These get wrapped around a cylinder. The smaller the cylinder, the more the plate is going to wrap, so you need to compensate the artwork accordingly. Of course you need to use trigonometry, so I worked out formulas for him depending on the cylinder size. The problem was, he already had it in his head that it was too complicated to understand. So he had a comb in his back pocket that said unbreakable on it. I grabbed it and bent it. I told him to watch the lettering and observe what's happening. Instantly, he got it.

I say all this because I see it every day. Oh white ink is so complicated or pretreating is terrible and hard to do. I can't figure this out or that, etc etc. The easiest approach is to take a deep breath and start all over. Oftentimes, the answer is much easier than it looks. Of course, this is not always the problem with machines, sometimes, the machines just don't work right, but I'm talking about learning something in a simple manner as opposed to the complicated route.

Long winded, I know, but I really want people to share what the pros of direct to garment are for them personally. What were those moments, when you said, oh is that all there is to it, and what are the benefits of dtg to you and your business?


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

JeridHill said:


> you as an owner of a direct to garment printer, what are the positives of dtg printing? What did you struggle with and eventually find out how to do?


can of worms opened..proceeding with caution..

The positives of DTG printing of course came after I bagged my K2 .. I have made that clear in every which way possible. 

We struggled with "everything".. learning to pretreat correctly, getting white ink to print the first 2-3 weeks not knowing it needed to be 99% white in Corel. Taking on jobs that were impossible with the k2 because from how we were sold on the machine that its a production printer. 

the biggest challenge for Pat was not being afraid of the machine.. we came to a "crossroads" with the machine and at our wits end. I said.. you know what its late no one is gonna help us so we need to get our big boy pants on and lets do this.. Dan from dtginks.com sent a pdf (from the Epson 2200 manual) on how to change out the carriage and we got cut up and bleed all over, we screamed and yelled, installed parts backwards but we learned that we could do it ourselves.

We never wanted to install WIMS and looked into Bulk Ink but how could we invest more money in this machine when we couldn't even get an order of 20 shirts to match with what we had.. 

We printed everything you can think of to make money.. pillowcases,towels, dog shirts, bandanas, thongs, onesies.. anything that can fit the platen we printed. 

I am sure some of you are unaware that Pat is disabled and has less than 75% usage of his left hand.. so when we got into this business we had to make sure it was suited for his needs. Screen printing was an option but we did not have the space and Pat was afraid he would need someone around at all times to help.

So DTG was perfect.. he is able to do 95% of the work himself.. Pat worked directly underneath the house in the garage and I could hear the garage door open and close and I would say 3-6 times a day I would hear the garage door close and my stomach would begin to hurt and my heart starting beating before Pat could say anything.. I had to ask "what now" .. the typical answer I got " I don't know..waiting on SWF to call" so I had to immediately go into Game Plan B or C or D etc etc..

always worrying how long it was gonna take to get up and running in the morning.. if I didn't hear from Pat after an hour I would go downstairs and he wouldn't have even started printing yet because bad nozzles or test printing to make sure its ok.

We test printed on every inch of the shirt we could inside and out.. When we bagged our printer we throw out over a case of test printed tshirts that we saved just in case. 


After the bags>> when Pat closed the garage door it took me awhile to get used to him actually coming upstairs to go to the bathroom or get a drink.. sometimes I would I go do there and for the first time ever our clothing rack was full ..it was great. 

Now the printer runs like a champ.. Pat misses those days when the printer was down so he could take a break  but then cringes as to why it was down in the first place.

We rarely test print..near perfect nozzle checks every morning.. its a great feeling.

We are still learning something new everyday!! but at least when are learning its in the right direction.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

Things have really changed. I have probably seen more than most. I was the first end user to ever put white ink in an Epson based printer. I used to dread training new employees. When I had my production facility, I spent my time repairing, cleaning, and unclogging heads, while my employees did the printing. 

Today, I could train a new employee in less than half a day and I can leave my printer for days unattended without worries, due to the bagged inks. There has never been an easier time to get started, and I would imagine that it will only get better. 

Zilla


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

from those that own a brother machine, they all seem to like it. for the epson based machines it seems a crap shoot. 

yeah, you learn a lot over the years. our process has gotten better as well as some of the materials. no thanks to the oem. 

i was just looking at a black shirt that came out of the wash. it is over a year old and has a full back dtg print. still looks like it came off the printer yesterday and i dry them at high heat for 70 mins. 

there are a lot less players in the oem market today and not the excitement at the shows about dtg that there used to be. 

all of the problems imo is with the distributors or oems not providing proper training and information on the following:

how does the machine work
how to take apart and repair each part
how does the rip work
what is good and bad artwork for a dtg
what are all of the maintenance procedures
post sale follow up visits or calls to make sure everything is going good

maybe a few more things but a lot of the bad press could have been avoided if these guys were in it for more than just a fast buck at sale.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I almost completely agree with Binki. I disagree that there are less players. Brother, Anajet, Belquette, Neoflex, Dreamjet, Polyprint, Equipment Zone, Neoflex, M&R, DTG, Rainbow, Kornit, MS, etc.......

I also disagree with the show excitement level. At Atlanta there were three screen print equipment manufacturers with equipment on the floor. There were six DTG manufacturers...Anajet, Brother, DTG, Neoflex, EZ DTG, and M&R.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

I think one positive of DTG is "Who" you buy your machine from, I have read so many posts that are people complaining about the distributor they bought from, the lies they were told, promises made before the sale that were never fulfilled.

So the positive in this is buy from a company that has a proven track record of doing what they say, that isn't going to keep blaming the user, and is going to stand behind their warranty and even go above and beyond what the warranty states because they want you to succeed.


JMHO


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

There has not been a display in Long Beach like the T-Jet folks put on since they closed. Most of the action seems to be around the plotters, vehicle wraps, and screen print equipment. The NBM show is almost dead right now in LB and the ISS show is getting the same way.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I agree with that, however, Scott was always an over the top kinda guy.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I appreciate the candor. These are the very things that we as distributors and manufacturers need to hear. I know I have tried to be as informative before and after the sale, but I know I'm not perfect. But threads like this, IMO, are what we need to hear on a consistent basis in order for us to gear EVERYTHING in the right direction!


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

hey, give me a call and i will burn your ears off!


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## Resolute DTG (Jun 27, 2010)

binki said:


> all of the problems imo is with the distributors or oems not providing proper training and information on the following:
> 
> how does the machine work
> how to take apart and repair each part
> ...




This is totally right and I agree, a lot of companies have a bad taste for DTG due to ill informed sales reps with little or no knowledge of how a machine works just after a quick $ / £.

It's my job to train people in the art of direct to garment printing, it always amazes me how many people do not know how to do a simple nozzle check after they have had their free half day training from the company who sold them the machine !

I have been involved in printing for over 25 years, flexo, screen, dye sub, laser, UV, litho, you name it !! so I totally get where you are coming from & yes Flexo is complicated 

Great Post


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

hey, i like our sales rep and oem distributor and would recommend them. i just don't think the price point is right. if they don't want to give a good training class then the price is too low. hey, i know they want to be competitive but let's give some value to the product. raise the price, sell less units, but give a quality product from hardware to software to training. don't try to fool us into thinking that $12K and i am gold, no, let's spell out the real cost. 

imo the training should be two solid weeks with hands on and then another several months of on site calls or visits with daily production of samples to work out the kinks. 

wtf here? does anyone not see that our customers will come in with photos from digital cameras taken from complete amateurs with no regard for lighting, framing, composure, and such? not every print is going to be perfect. we will almost NEVER get the shark with the surfboard print to do. why not sell on benefits but train on reality? it would lead to a lot less pissed off customers of dtg printers.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

binki said:


> imo the training should be two solid weeks with hands on and then another several months of on site calls or visits with daily production of samples to work out the kinks.


One of the number one costs in this field is tech support. The costs for something of this nature would go well above and beyond what the current prices are. Not to mention, you are talking about having someone spend two weeks of their time with you, letting go of all other responsibilities. IMO, I don't believe you would need 2 weeks training.

I spend 2 hours training people, and that's thorough, believe it or not. At the same time, they know they can call me and usually do within the next couple of weeks with additional questions or assistance. I never charge for tech support and I don't believe any of my customers feel like they've been abandoned. The maintenance for our machine is 5 minutes or less per day, so there really isn't a lot of maintenance training. RIP questions are very simple and easy to understand. I can't imagine we are the only ones like this. On site visits and calls for several months would also be extremely expensive because of travel times, etc.

I think the idea is ideal for the end user, but you would have to have a massive staff as a manufacturer whereas they would be spending almost all of their time with customers. Although that sounds great in concept, the price of the machines would increase drastically. I could see a $15,000 machine, easily double, if not more.

As a side note, I still have, on occasion, some of my first customers still calling me. It hardly happens anymore, but I spend just as much time with them as they need. I don't cut them short and I don't get a dime from them for this time spent. It's past their warranty period, but our tech support is always free.

We do have extended warranties available, much like you get when purchasing just about anything electronic. I believe those are the value added services that can be implemented.

One last point, if you buy a screen printing machine, the vast majority of the manufacturers mandate training that you must pay for. And some of those machines are more expensive than almost every dtg printer on the market. So even though your concept is ideal, again, I just don't believe it's viable to the industry without some major time increases.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

binki said:


> There has not been a display in Long Beach like the T-Jet folks put on since they closed. Most of the action seems to be around the plotters, vehicle wraps, and screen print equipment. The NBM show is almost dead right now in LB and the ISS show is getting the same way.


I will preface my comment by stating I have been to more than my fair share of trade shows since 2006. (Never counted, but it would average close to 10 a year). What I respect more about almost all of the dtg manufacturers now compared to the previous years is that they are actually showing more of the dtg printing process than before. In the past, people were sold on how easy the process is - but they only see part of the process. The pretreating was not done on the show floor, the artwork was already optimized, the printers were primed before the show opened,... Now, distributors are pretreating on the floor (most of them using automatic pretreaters they are selling), manly will print the artwork of a potential customer and several of them will even show people interested in what the maintenance is or how to tech support their own printer. Several of the manufacturers are also now showing you how to increase the value of the garments by adding types of decorating (i.e. foil, rhinestones / studs, glitter,...).

So personally for me, the huge booth with the video / audio system and the dtg printers on turntables is more flare and salesman-ship compared to the meat-and-potatoes that prospective customers really need to know before they invest their money in this technology. Just my opinion.

Mark


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

if the price of the sale is $30K with proper training then that is the price point. dont sell me a machine for 12K and then go wtf when i come here and raise holy heach E double toothpicks. 

to do less is to be selling toys to the hobby set. make the point that this is for the professional or go to the craft fairs, not the ISS or NBM shows.



JeridHill said:


> One last point, if you buy a screen printing machine, the vast majority of the manufacturers mandate training that you must pay for. And some of those machines are more expensive than almost every dtg printer on the market. So even though your concept is ideal, again, I just don't believe it's viable to the industry without some major time increases.


what, you want to keep me in the [email protected]#$% dark over the process until i buy? how about spelling out the costs before you sell? at least with the screen print sale i know that i have a cost to entry. quit selling dreams and sell reality.



DAGuide said:


> ... the[re] are actually showing more of the dtg printing process than before. ...


i do not disagree, just not the flash or interest as in the past


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm not trying to make this a sales pitch but if you want to pay double for our machine, I would more than gladly meet your suggestions.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

JeridHill said:


> I'm not trying to make this a sales pitch but if you want to pay double for our machine, I would more than gladly meet your suggestions.


and if you want to do the training and support *AND SHARE IN THE RISK* to make me profitable i will buy. 

otherwise, i will pass and offer screen printing or 'silk screen printing' which my customers know the end product and will accept at the cost and live with.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Training is free unless we come to your location. The large screen printing equipment companies often mandate training at a price. There are no hidden costs, we are always up front about this.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

i like dtg printing. i like the results and the product. is it profitable? i don't know. i just know that if i offer a full color print i can get other business. that is all. for that, for me, it brings in business. 

if your sole product is dtg printing then you will fail. end of story. the same with all the other hobby types of products, dyesub, transfers, dtg. 

you need to be flexible. our #1 seller is apparel vinyl, #2 embroidery (more profit though), #3 is a tie between dtg and screen print. everything else is after that. nuff said.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Hey Jerid, yeah, come to your shop is what i meant, not onsite training but for the right price i would want it. Let's say I do $10 Millon a year with DTG, then I would spend $1 Million on training. I think 10% is fair, no?


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Again if you want to pay me one million for training I would move to your city for several months


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

and if i were doing 10 million in dtg i would pay you that! wait, i would move to socal for nothing from OH!


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

i like dtg, i just dont like the pita. throw me a bone. woof!


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

back to the OP.. what are your positive of DTG printing binki?? that's what this post was about..

the world is an imperfect place and DTG is still fairly new.. I have people walk into my shop see the two printers and ask me "do you do silk screen??" 

I have to explain on daily basis what DTG is and how beneficial it is to them.. I have a screen printer who is 2 blocks from me and we refer customers back and forth. The owner of my building does vinyl and banners.. I do embroidery. 

Guess what.. you make connections you improve what you have and there is the positive.. NO PITA about it... its part of the growing process we all have to do. 


Here is your bone.. (Sign if I were Bill Engvall)


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I had a customer order business cards and then magnets for their vehicle. When they walked in the shop to pick up the order, I had printed their 3 color logo on a yellow shirt, front and back. A week later, he came back to order shirts. I originally gave it to him at no cost and it paid off with an order. To me, that's a positive!


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

binki said:


> imo the training should be two solid weeks with hands on and then another several months of on site calls or visits with daily production of samples to work out the kinks.


No offense intended...but do you really feel the process of learning to use a DTG printer warrants that much training, then months of follow up, or were you joking?


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

binki said:


> if your sole product is dtg printing then you will fail. end of story. the same with all the other hobby types of products, dyesub, transfers, dtg.


In a forum full of rediculous statements, this one ranks at the very top. DTG has been my top earner since the very first month we bought our original red T-jet one. I do not have an accurate total of the number of shirts I have printed, but it is well over 50,000 in the time frame of 2005-2008 when I sold out. DTG outpaced all other revenue streams combined ( vinyl, embroidery, sublimation, etc.....). 

I would also imagine that Cafe Press, Zazzle, Red Bubble, etc....would also disagree with that statement. 

My new business model is focusing soley on garment printing, with the emphasis on DTG, backed up by some screen printing. I am confident that I will not fail, and that DTG will out earn screen printing.


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

I cannot imagine anyone needing two weeks of training on the Mod 1 with bagged inks. That is not to say they should not take two weeks to practice printing shirts, and learning all of the best methods for the environment they are in. Also taking time to learn the design tricks that work best for your design types, your RIP, and your particular machine. 

I can train a new employee on my kiosk with bagged inks in a half a day. That won't allow them to service the machine, but it will allow them to pretreat, cure, print, cure, and do simple cleaning on the machine in order to run in production mode. It would take an additional full day to train them to change a head, reprise dampers, etc.....as well as bringing them up to speed on the intricacies of the RIP. The only thing this would leave out is art prep. This step could take a very long time, and is best learned in bits and pieces.


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## acca (Jun 25, 2006)

binki said:


> if your sole product is dtg printing then you will fail. end of story. the same with all the other hobby types of products, dyesub, transfers, dtg.



I too would like to disagree. We have been DTG printing since 2007 and have done about 50,000 prints. We started in the back of a shop in a 10' x 15' area and have grown enough to move to a retail space last year. Our business has been increasing even in this poor economy and we are very grateful.


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## jayarrsteiner (Aug 8, 2009)

Woo. It's getting hot in here....


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

see.. and this was suppose to be a positive thread. 

Thanks Marc and Acca for keeping the dream alive.. gotta think outside the box (DTG box) take matters into your own hands.. stop the blame the game..


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

FatKat Printz said:


> gotta think outside the box (DTG box) take matters into your own hands.. stop the blame the game..


i could have fun with that one. 

i like the product, just wish it were faster and more consistent.


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