# Vinyl cracking and peeling within first year



## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

I am having problems with peeling and cracking within 6 months of the shirts and jackets I made for myself. I use siser easy weed from with hotronix fusion heat press both from us cutter. 

I heat garment for a few seconds then apply vinyl for 15 seconds at 305 degrees at med pressure just like indicated. I hot peel. 

I wash in cold water and hang dry trying to be as careful as I can.

Every shirt or jacket I have made has peeled and cracked. If I would of sold these I would have had to replace them all. Any answers. dwayne


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Very unusual. Post pictures. Have you tested the accuracy of your press temperature guage?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Did you pre-press your garment before applying the vinyl. This gets rid of moisture. I pre press for 5-10 sec then let sit for sec or so to let the moisture flash off. Apply vinyl. I use Thermalflex plus I press as recommended then remove carrier cover with Teflon and repress for 5-7 sec. I personally have never used the Siser easy weed but have a few samples of it and many use it with good results.


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## imhotep9 (May 25, 2013)

Very unusual. I know that is recommended temperature but I always use 325


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

I did not heat test temperature of machine. At almost $2000 dollars I thought I would eliminate heat problems that have happened with cheaper models.Here are some pictures. It doesn't matter whether it is front, back, sleeve they are cracking and peeling everywhere. I am posting the worst one to one of the the least ones.


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

The machine I have hotronix fusion has a digital temperature gauge on it it moves from one degree above and below so it seems to be working. I did preheat the material for 5 seconds or so. I did not press with teflon after I hot peeled.

I have read that many other people have never used the teflon and have had great results.

As for washing, cold water and hang dry. 

I just made a great ER jacket for a girl at the ER I work at yesterday and now everybody wants a jacket and I am scared to make them something that falls apart.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Get a infrared thermometer. Check your platen temp. It could be off by 10-15F. I have vinyl that is 7 years old washed every week that looks better then that.


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

I will get an infrared thermometer and I am probably going to go with thermoflex plus. I will also press with cover sheet when done. 

What would cause cracking more to much heat or not enough?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Actually the cracking and peeling could be either. If not enough heat it doesn't adhere which allows it to crack. If heated too much the adhesive can have the same effect and looses its holding strength allowing it to crack or damaging the vinyl itself if way too hot

I found as long as your with in 20F with thermalflex and press around the recommended time it holds very well The second press allows the vinyl to melt into the garment. I charge more for vinyl then screen printing. I have had may customers think I screen printed and charged them more. I have had to show a few that was not the case. They have had vinyl done other places and said they never felt vinyl like that.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

streetpreacher said:


> I did not heat test temperature of machine. At almost $2000 dollars I thought I would eliminate heat problems that have happened with cheaper models.Here are some pictures. It doesn't matter whether it is front, back, sleeve they are cracking and peeling everywhere. I am posting the worst one to one of the the least ones.


That is pretty bad. You can't go wrong with Thermoflex Plus. That is what I have been using and Thermoflex Extra for delicate fabric. My wife washes the laundry with cold water but she throws them in the dryer without cracking or peeling issues. 

BTW I don't think you will find Themaflex. I googled it. Haven't seen any.


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## BrianHahn (Dec 29, 2013)

Material is: ThermoFlex Plus Heat Transfer Film


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

BrianHahn said:


> Material is: ThermoFlex Plus Heat Transfer Film


That is what I just said.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I do not use an infrared thermometer......IMO they are not always reliable.....I like this one:
RPK-PYRMTR : Digital Pyrometer & Surface Probe Kit : Geo Knight & Co Inc

As far as pre-heating and pre-pressing.....I do about 12 seconds to warm up the platten and another 10 seconds with the shirt laid down....If you only pre-press 5 seconds on a cold platten your temperature can drop 20 degrees in a heartbeat...There is little harm done doing too long, however, if too short you may not get all the moisture out...If you take too long between shirts, you need to heat up your platen again...

I use Siser Easy Weed and never re-press.....You only need so much heat and time and pressure to reach the "sweet spot" for the adhesive to adhere.....Too much heat can cause the vinyl to become "brittle"....Vinyl is a petroleum product and too much heat can cause it to dry out and essentially evaporate the oil.....


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We do 75 yards of siser a week. Go to 310 hot peel and cover and repress for 5 seconds


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## macman29681 (May 24, 2013)

royster13 said:


> I do not use an infrared thermometer......IMO they are not always reliable.....I like this one:
> RPK-PYRMTR : Digital Pyrometer & Surface Probe Kit : Geo Knight & Co Inc
> 
> As far as pre-heating and pre-pressing.....I do about 12 seconds to warm up the platten and another 10 seconds with the shirt laid down....If you only pre-press 5 seconds on a cold platten your temperature can drop 20 degrees in a heartbeat...There is little harm done doing too long, however, if too short you may not get all the moisture out...If you take too long between shirts, you need to heat up your platen again...
> ...


Never thought about heat pressing when the platten is cold and the temperture drop. Thanks for the tip.


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. Dwayne


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

How are you washing these? It should be inside out, cold water, line dry. It looks like too much heat in the dryer or some type of fabric additive in the wash. Detergent only, nothing else.


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

I wash them inside out, cold water and hang dry.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

streetpreacher said:


> I wash them inside out, cold water and hang dry.


Contact Siser directly then. We had extensive conversations with their tech guys on proper care of garments. If those are your shirts and you had total control over them then something is wrong.


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## woohooguy (Dec 23, 2012)

We do 165 celcius for 15 on firm pressure. Try playing around with the settings. Contact Siser. I have had mine over year old. I wash it disregard of any washing rules, it still looks great.

Sent from my LG-D802 using T-Shirt Forums


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## j4k (Oct 27, 2009)

Do you have these issues with different color vinyls or is it just the white? If its just the white you could have a bad roll of vinyl.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

woohooguy said:


> We do 165 celcius for 15 on firm pressure. Try playing around with the settings. Contact Siser. I have had mine over year old. I wash it disregard of any washing rules, it still looks great.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D802 using T-Shirt Forums


There is no need to press Siser Easy Weed that hot or that long.....Vinyl is an oil based product.....IMO "overdoing it" only leads to the vinyl and adhesive breaking down prematurely.....Not all the time but some of the time....


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

I talked with US Cutter several times about the vinyl and they said it has been to long so they cannot do anything for me.

I also talked with stahls and they said it wouldn't happen if I bought their product but still don't know why it happened with the siser easy weed. They told me to buy their temperature strips to see if the machine is heating right. They said if there was any problem it wouldn't be with different heat temps on the platen but a wrong overall temp.

I have 3 rolls of vinyl I guess I will use for give away shirts.

I decided to go with the thermoflex plus from specialty graphics.

I will go with a temperature gun of some sort have to figure which one is the best because I heard of some not reading right either.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

So you are convinced the problem is the vinyl versus something else?.......Both Siser and Thermoflex are good products.....I use strictly Siser Easyweed with no problems....If the failure is not related to the vinyl, switching brands will not solve the problem.....

PS....What I do not like about ThermoFlex is the higher application temperature.....If you are pressing multiple garments you have allow ample time for your press to recover it's heat.....


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

royster13 said:


> So you are convinced the problem is the vinyl versus something else?.......Both Siser and Thermoflex are good products.....I use strictly Siser Easyweed with no problems....If the failure is not related to the vinyl, switching brands will not solve the problem.....
> 
> PS....What I do not like about ThermoFlex is the higher application temperature.....If you are pressing multiple garments you have allow ample time for your press to recover it's heat.....


You press upper platen must not have enough mass to keep it from losing temperature.

What size and brand heat press do you have? I own a Stalhs 16 X 20 swing away. It will drop 1 or 2 degrees each pressing. By the time I load another shirt the temperature is back to set point already. Even when I am pressing 40 or more non vinyl transfers at 375 degrees.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I use both Geo Knight and Hix presses....As well, I have also owned Insta and Stahls presses.....My experience is they all drop some.....And the higher the heat the more noticeable it is....


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

streetpreacher said:


> I talked with US Cutter several times about the vinyl and they said it has been to long so they cannot do anything for me.
> 
> I also talked with stahls and they said it wouldn't happen if I bought their product but still don't know why it happened with the siser easy weed. They told me to buy their temperature strips to see if the machine is heating right. They said if there was any problem it wouldn't be with different heat temps on the platen but a wrong overall temp.
> 
> ...


Be carefull what heat gun thermometer you buy. I bought one from Harbor Freights. According to the temp reading of the gun my heat press is 25 degrees too high. I know for a fact my heat press is accurate to within 3 degrees as it is warming up all the way to the set point. I have contact pyrometer that is certified to National standards. The pyrometer and the temp display of my heat press correlates within 3 degrees.

Anyway I returned the heat gun thermometer and got another one. It read 35 degrees higher than my heat press. Needless to say I returned it for good and got my money back. The only reason I bought one because it was on sale and nice to have one handy.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

royster13 said:


> I use both Geo Knight and Hix presses....As well, I have also owned Insta and Stahls presses.....My experience is they all drop some.....And the higher the heat the more noticeable it is....


What size?


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## BrianHahn (Dec 29, 2013)

Go with the heat probe from GeoKnight. It has been accurate in our experience.

Geo Knight Digital Temperature Probe - Geo Knight


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Currently I have 16 x 20 presses......Have also had a 15 x 15 Hix and 16 x 20 Insta and Hotronix....


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

I am not convinced it is the vinyl. I have no idea what it is but I am sure I went by specs. Even went even further by washing in cold, no bleach, natural detergents and hung dry. 

Every shirt or jacket I did was in white vinyl except one which is in black and I may of wore it twice. It has no cracking so now I am going to try to wash it with every load to see if it was maybe the roll of white. I will even put it in the dryer with my other clothes if it holds up maybe the roll of white was bad. 

I made other shirts and jackets for free for others but I have no contact with them to find out if theirs fell apart or not. Some white and some other colors.

I own a hotronix fusion 16 x 20 heat press. 

I have heard that the heat guns can be way off and that may really mess things up if I start changing the temp of a good heat press. For 1850 dollars it should be a accurate heat press.


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks again for everyones responses I appreciate the help to get this figured out and to hear others experiences.


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## buehrle (Jan 14, 2008)

i don't use the brand your using ( i use ecofilm only and have never had anything come off in 6-7 years ) are you sure of the material that your pressing ? i know ecofilm is only for cotton or poly (or blend) but not nylon. could that be your problem ? i don't wash my stuff with any care, it all goes in the same load and into the dryer after. and i'm sure your like me, you have a hundred shirts you have done for yourself and nothing ever came off. i have some black t's that are now faded grey from so much use and it still is stuck to them. 

if your problem continues maybe switch brands ?


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## ericsson2416 (Aug 29, 2007)

I also had a similar problem with a roll of easy weed in yellow we got on sale. Thought I would give it a try and it lasted about a month on the shirts then started cracking. We use ecofilm for about 95% of our jobs and have been really happy with its performance.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

streetpreacher said:


> I am not convinced it is the vinyl. I have no idea what it is but I am sure I went by specs. Even went even further by washing in cold, no bleach, natural detergents and hung dry.
> 
> Every shirt or jacket I did was in white vinyl except one which is in black and I may of wore it twice. It has no cracking so now I am going to try to wash it with every load to see if it was maybe the roll of white. I will even put it in the dryer with my other clothes if it holds up maybe the roll of white was bad.
> 
> ...


Hotronix is very reliable and accurate. My Hotronix 16 X 20 swing away I bought in 1990 is still working and as accurate as of today. The only thing I have changed in it is the battery knock on wood.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

buehrle said:


> i don't use the brand your using ( i use ecofilm only and have never had anything come off in 6-7 years ) are you sure of the material that your pressing ? i know ecofilm is only for cotton or poly (or blend) but not nylon. could that be your problem ? i don't wash my stuff with any care, it all goes in the same load and into the dryer after. and i'm sure your like me, you have a hundred shirts you have done for yourself and nothing ever came off. i have some black t's that are now faded grey from so much use and it still is stuck to them.
> 
> if your problem continues maybe switch brands ?


I too used ecofilm for a while and had very good luck with it. But it cost more than Thermoflex especially when I can get it locally and don't have to pay shipping.


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## streetpreacher (Apr 20, 2012)

The jackets I have done were 50/50 poly cotton and the shirts were all 100 percent cotton that I have. 

I done one guys shirt that was like a spandex type material and told him I wasn't real sure how it would last it came out good and seen him several times after and it was still holding but lost contact with him now.

I am hoping it was the one roll of white. I have 90ft of white coming in tomorrow that is thermoflex plus so I will see how that goes. 

The things I haven't used that others use is the upper and lower platen cover which I ordered and a cover sheet. I made a jacket last week and I put red over white and I used parchment paper from the store and it seemed to work fine. 

Are the covers and cover sheet worth using and how much does that affect the temp.

I see many repress after with a cover sheet is that better or worse.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

streetpreacher said:


> The jackets I have done were 50/50 poly cotton and the shirts were all 100 percent cotton that I have.
> 
> I done one guys shirt that was like a spandex type material and told him I wasn't real sure how it would last it came out good and seen him several times after and it was still holding but lost contact with him now.
> 
> ...


I use cover sheet in the lower platen because I do two sided pressing with laser transfer (Imageclip Laser Light). In the past when I use to buy plastisol stock transfer the lower platen was stained when I did two sides. I made it a habit ever since to put teflon sheet on top of the lower platen. I sometimes use teflon on top of the shirt when the shirt is sensitive to scorching. Teflon takes some of the heat but in my experience it really does not matter much. You can always crank up the temp a tad if you notice that it is affecting the end product.

When you use Teflon to repress the vinyl will look glossy. The parchment makes it matte. I hardly repress vinyl. I do it with parchment paper if the adhesion looks suspect. I repress laser transfer for durability. Again I use parchment paper. Teflon will pick up faint toner/polymer that will transfer on the next shirt and ruin it.


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