# I think inkjet heat transfers have come a far way!



## lillj (Aug 26, 2007)

I'm reading some posts about heat transfer vs. silkscreening. I choose heat transfer because most of my shirts have personalization added to them. The paper I use has a super soft hand, does not crack or peel and has lasted through 12+ washings without fading. It took me many tries and I almost gave up searching for something that I would feel great about providing my customers with.

Now I'm worried that if I want to put these in retail stores, I may need to provide the retails stores with actual screen-printed versions of my designs because of the reputation that heat transfer has. Obviously, if I get into a retail store, they will not be personalized. I sell baby clothing, so the personalization is adding the baby's name and birth date or making a shirt with their name on it.

Thoughts on what a retailer might prefer? I have a friend that owns a higher-end gift shop, I'll be getting her opinion in a few weeks when I show her a sample.

Thanks!
-Loree


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*

As a consumer I would never purchase a digital transfer tee especially at a retail locations pricing. I understand there is a market for the product as you mentioned in personalization. Just my opinion but of all the printing methods it is my least acceptable print. I know its getting better but so is DTG and plastisol transfers and probably sublimation work as well.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*

I agree with David.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*

yep I agree with David, I do baby clothing and I use dtg. You could probably find someone who would do it for a decent price as the baby stuff doesnt take that much ink. Also with plasitol transfers you could gang up alot of small images per sheet and they would be pretty cheap, they would look alot nicer as they are screen printed. I use to use heat transfers on my baby clothes and I now have bought a dtg machine because I did not feel the transfer quality was good enough for my customers.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*

I sell baby clothing in retail stores that is heat transferred...and am in the process of switching to plastisols.

Now, having said that, I have never had a huge problem with the transfers, my customers like them and so far as I know, the stores do not have a problem.

So, what prompted the switch? Two main things:
- My personal view that screen printing is "where it's at", and that I do suspect we have quietly lost some sales because of the transfers.
- My desire to expand into garments with more colours, and the subsequent need to use a different method there. I'm yet to find a dark transfer paper that I liked.

I hope some of the feedback helps.

In hindsight (oh how wonderful is hindsight), I do kind of wish I'd just started at the screenprinting end. I've now got myself into the design mindset of using however many colours, gradients etc. I like and am having to redesign some of my garments as we switch to screen printing because they're just not practical when you talk about screen printing them.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*

Transfers have a place, they have been helpful for quite a few folks as a cost effective way to enter business. They help, through profits, enable one to upgrade the process over time and move into the larger, more expensive processes. 

If shooting for high quality, it's best to start out as high as one can afford to operate at. Otherwise, one can grow "up" from transfers, or other processes, into the higher dollar quality. That's what I am planning to do.


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*

heat transfers apart from plastisol in my opinion are for one day events ,finito they can be made by anyone who buys a pc ,printer and press, skill zero! I only hope they never discover a quality paper for darks or lights then I as a screenprinter can curl up and die.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*



mickheike said:


> they can be made by anyone who buys a pc ,printer and press, skill zero! I only hope they never discover a quality paper for darks or lights then I as a screenprinter can curl up and die.


While I agree, as I said, that I would prefer to use screen printing for my product now, at this stage of my business, heat transfer is most certainly not a product that requires "no skill" and there are quite a few quality papers out there.

If I look at some of the early work I did, with OfficeWorks paper, an iron and "any old ink", versus what I produce today with quality paper, quality ink and the experience of pressing over 100 shirts, there is a world of different that is attributable not just to the quality products I use, but to my increased experience with them.

I suspect there would be not a few people here who would be insulted by the idea that their business requires "skill zero".

It may interest you to know that when I got my press, I wrecked a good many onesies perfecting my press process.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*



mickheike said:


> heat transfers apart from plastisol in my opinion are for one day events ,finito they can be made by anyone who buys a pc ,printer and press, skill zero! I only hope they never discover a quality paper for darks or lights then I as a screenprinter can curl up and die.


There is heat transfer paper that comes close to screen print. It is two step a self weeding transfer paper. It is called *Imageclip*. Although it has some limitation when it comes to light color image the result is by far better than transfer papers that leaves polymer window/box/background.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

skill zero to transfers Have you ever did A transfer if you did I dont think you would of said that mick heike


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

I only sell screen printed and sublimation transfers. I think the transfers that leave the box windows are junk and will never buy them also they don't stand up. They are not worth me losing customers over something that dosen't last.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Define "doesn't last".

I have heat pressed shirts that are in better shape than screen printed shirts of the same age/# of washings.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

While inkjet heat transfers won't be competing in the minds of decorators with screen printing or dtg, there is a market for them. It may not be the market that is looking for SP, dtg, or even dye-sub, but there exists a market for inkjet heat transfers, and just like any other decorating service, there are the good and the bad. In time, the public perception may be changing, read on:

In my own market - there are good heat transfers and bad, and yes, it takes a learning curve to reach the top level of product. Just ask me, I worked very hard to produce the best quality IJ heat transfer that can be made. I now help others reach a higher level.

Also note: Some folks are using the heat transfer paper with plotters = zero polymer window.

Given that, the soft to "no" hand, stretchability, and color retention -- yes -- heat transfer may take a higher place in the minds of the public as we start to put these products into their hands. 

No one who has my shirts believes they are transfers. My market loves their shirts and always come back for more. The difference between the shirt and the image area can hardly be detected directly after pressing, and after a wash or two -- close your eyes, you can't feel it. *No color loss* It's pretty good in our world lately. 

Given the above quality, and the ability to reproduce photos, we definitly have a market.

I would venture to say it's not nice to put down other people's businesses and hard labor as junk and zero skill. 

Sure, the general opinion is inkjet heat transfers are the lowest on the totem pole of quality -- and I concur though that is my product. But that quality level is raising by leaps and bounds. In the heat transfer world, we are also seeing dramatic improvements in the products we able to use. 

There are only a few steps to producing a top notch quality transfer that will last, but there are a ton of little ways to really mess it up.

Have a nice day.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

funtimesx said:


> Define "doesn't last".
> 
> I have heat pressed shirts that are in better shape than screen printed shirts of the same age/# of washings.


 
I also have this experience myself. I have my own Jetpro shirts that are as perfect as when I made them, and have some screenprints from the store that have hairline cracks. I'm seeing some of the same thing as you.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: I think heat transfers have come a far way!*



MotoskinGraphix said:


> As a consumer I would never purchase a digital transfer tee especially at a retail locations pricing. I understand there is a market for the product as you mentioned in personalization. Just my opinion but of all the printing methods it is my least acceptable print. I know its getting better but so is DTG and plastisol transfers and probably sublimation work as well.


 
I'd have to go with this. If you plan to do some personalized ones, cool, but do them at home. If you have a nice design or two, have some transfers made, press them yourself and then send them out to retail. With baby stuff, I sure you could have that ganged and save on the transfer cost.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

selzler said:


> I only sell screen printed and sublimation transfers. I think the transfers that leave the box windows are junk and will never buy them also they don't stand up. They are not worth me losing customers over something that dosen't last.


I've got some of this junk that is 2 yrs old and still holds up in the wash. If you price them right, people will buy them. Now I don't sale them or even try to sale them at a high cost and I tell my customers that it is a cheap way to go and offer a better process, but they are not the transfers out of a cracker jacks box. Far more advanced then you might think. Heck, I've seen a big difference from the ones of 2 yrs ago and the soft hand everyone here talks about. Don't down them, they serve their purpose very well.


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## lancelot (Jun 1, 2007)

Even the best Transfers won't last a 10th of the time that a screenprint will (not including plastisol transfers), if you understand the science behind them it is unfair to compair the two, water based Stains the garment (you can't get more permant than that) plastisol ,although it only partialy penetrates the fabric, has an amazing adhesive bond that melds and stretches with the fabric, heat transfer is basicly just a plasticy gum that sits on top of the fabric and due to the nature of this it does not strectch with the fabric very well.
Saying that that to get back on subject I did my first heat transfer about 15 years ago on to stubby coolers i still remember the job, as a screenprinting apprentice I was amazed, we all were,untill we started getting complaints,and relized the limitations, I am still using heat press infact ,and they are getting better, I did a job last night in fact, on cotton underwear (a joke thing) . If the client wanted to sell these as proffesional apparal I would have used a water based ink .
If a Heat transfer lasts longer than a screenprint it just means the printer failed to cure the garments properly. 

Sorry about the spelling I have Dyslexia


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Lancelot, no one is comparing the two. That would be like apples to oranges, I think.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Buechee said:


> I've got some of this junk that is 2 yrs old and still holds up in the wash. If you price them right, people will buy them. Now I don't sale them or even try to sale them at a high cost and I tell my customers that it is a cheap way to go and offer a better process, but they are not the transfers out of a cracker jacks box. Far more advanced then you might think. Heck, I've seen a big difference from the ones of 2 yrs ago and the soft hand everyone here talks about. Don't down them, they serve their purpose very well.


I agree with you 100%. I sold those junk for over 14 years and only one customer took notice of the polymer box. I used OneStep Brite Thermal Wax transfer that is sold by Airwaves Inc. ever since I started pressing heat transfer until Seiko discontinued the thermal wax color ink sheet for my printer. The transfer had a very faint polymer window which washes off after few washes. The only way you can tell that the box exist is there is a stiff hand feel around the printed area. I have shirts that have been worn and washed at least 8 years and the colors are still good. The shirts are thrown in the wash and dryer with the rest of the laundry.

In a way it is a blessing that the inks sheet was discontinued because I found *Imageclip *which is self weeding. *Imageclip* btw needs more than zero skill and I will it at that.

Heat transfer have definitely a place in the industry. Anyway in my neck of the woods the customers keep coming back.

BTW I pressed plastisol heat transfers before I switched to digital heat transfer. I found that I have better control of the design, cost and waste. I said waste because the excess plastisol transfer that I cannot sell winds up in the trash. Plastisol has shelf life of 1 to 2 years or even less depending on how it was cured. I have screen printed shirts that are cracked and faded.


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## lancelot (Jun 1, 2007)

apples to oranges,a great man once said that, apparently I have'nt articulated my reply very well ,if my post appears that I am compairing the two. 
I was trying to define "doesn't last".  
I guess when I read "I have heat pressed shirts that have held up better than screenprinted shirts of the same age/# of washings" I mistook that as a direct comparison.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

what are you guys doing are you that scared that the heat transfers I am selling heat transfers I use JPSS and sell to stores and yes people do know what I am using they have no problems with buying them it is like screen printing if you use water base ink then it wont last and you will have all these problems will I do use water base and I do screen print to just it is less mess when using heat transfers and they will last just as long


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

*JET-PRO SofStretch will melt into the shirt with the ink why do you think we use it washing I have washed shirts now will over 25 times and still looks very nice*


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## lancelot (Jun 1, 2007)

I certainly would not be using the "my shirts still look nice after 25 washes to highlight the quality of my shirts" That could mean 4 months of use, I still have my favourite T shirt, an Alice in chains shirt FROM THE EARLY 90's!
I will have to try this Jet pro though ,I can then thow away my screenprinting gear and curl up and die ,strait to screenprinting valhalla ,along side my brother in arms Mick Heike


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Well, if you throw it away, throw it my way, I'd like to do SP.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

NO one is telling you to stop doing what you do I just dont like it when people go after some one for what they use when you have not tired any of it I do have screen printing,vinyl, heat transfer sub ink transfer and many more and you do not see me say they are junk do you and if you are losing money then you need to change that is what it is all about


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## lancelot (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm sorry mr david but I dont understand your angle,nothing in the posts would lead me to think that any one is telling me to stop what I am doing.
No I havent tried jet pro (I can't wait to though) there are thousands of products out there and I havent tried them either, that is the beauty of this forum, to educate, it should'nt be too personal.
I do all the processes as well so I do not want to enter in to the 'I am T shirt Yoda ' discussion.
I feel no need to defend a process as I am subjective I just like to use what is most effective, but when some one says one process will provide a image that will last as another and nothing I have seen supports this, then it is right to post my opinion, I would never say a particular process is Junk!
And where did the 'losing money' come from?????
As for going after somone,all the posts you have submited could be taken as hostile/unfriendly (bold Type genrally means Yelling).

girlzndollz you are written in to my will


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## Adam (Mar 21, 2005)

I think in this situation it's best to let the customer decide. If you are selling personalised baby tees to customers now, that are transfers, without a problem - surely that is your answer. 

I have printed and sold thousands of inkjet transfered t-shirts with a very low return rate. Like people say it has it's market, but I don't believe they're just for the printer's market, they are also for the consumer. I think most consumers want the t-shirt regardless of how it's printed, and if it's personalised the customer is usually in awe of the personalisation, it's the design they care most about.

I believe you can still present a quality product to the stores, just make sure you have a good weight t-shirt and you use a decent transfer.

And another thing, you're selling pesonalised baby t-shirts, unless someone has another kid, and calls it the same as the first, your t-shirts don't have to last ten years.  Personalised t-shirts I find, as that's what I sell predominantly, have a short shelf life because they are often bought for birthdays, parties, outings etc. So in your line of business, or our line of business, the only choice is inkjet transfer, sublimation or DTG.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

My initial response was and is my personal opinion as an educated consumer. I agree digital transfers have come a long way. I could sell them at events as personalised gear no doubt. Luis has spoke wonders of the Image Clip papers and I think they are a CLC paper and a two stage process. Many folks have mentioned the JPSS and the longevity of the prints. Obviously there are two papers out there that printers are using with good results.

As far as different printing techniques and the longevity of the prints in comparison...well that test I would have to perform on my own. I have very good quality screen printed shirts and very poor ones as well. I have gotten samples of DTG shirts that have faded but understand many DTG users have overcome this problem. I have heard countless stories of digital transfers cracking and fading but understand folks have had success with other papers. Many of the printing problems in all the mention techs. are caused by the printers themselves. I am positive my DTG samples werent heat set properly as an example.

Having said all that I think DTG is the future but not in my budget today. I think screen printing is king right now and for a few more years at the least. Plastisol transfers are easy to use, vibrant and can be custom ordered, my personal favorite. Sublimation produces a wonderful colorfast no hand print but only using light colors and high poly count shirts stops me in my tracks. Heatpress vinyl is great for wording or simple graphics personalization but it has drawbacks and I use it everyday. I wouldnt buy a heatpress vinyl shirt from a retail shop either.

I love this forum and have learned so much from so many of you. A recent post pulled me into Ulano films and creating screens for silk screen work. It was a system I had completely forgotten about back in the university printing class. Just an example of what sharing experiences and ideas is all about.

On a side note and something to consider. I dont buy t-shirts that much anymore because I can make whatever I want and with knowledge the illusion is broken. Retail shirts dont hold any attention for me other than to see whats out there. This is something to consider as a consumer that knows they can get personalized gear quickly, keeps the digital transfer viable. I am not talking small runs or large runs but personalized one offs. From a picture of Grandma to art the individual creates on thier own adobe software. I dont get asked for the art shirts as much as the photo stuff but that may change.

Simply different strokes for different folks! Know your market and you will do fine.

Lets keep it informative and helpful and thanks for listening to this long diatribe.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

In the first place I do not take any thing personal and I am not hostile/unfriendly and if you think I am I am sorry yes the new transfer paper have not been out as long as screen print but with new paper coming out all the time there is hope. and yes I do lot of testing for people here and even post on the forum and talk about it so when the new transfer paper has been around for 4 months now so yes it is hard to support it with screen printing and any other but people will all ways ask and there will all ways be some one that dont like it or know the way it is used and make bad coment on it I am just trying to let others know there is other ways to do things


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

I also think there is a place for inkjet/laser heat transfers one offs where the customer wants a novelty shirt I do them too as to skill forget it if it required skill they wouldn't sell them in one packs plus at shirt in the supermarket . Quality forget it! I buy quality ts and put aquality print on them with plastisol Isee the same customers every year at festivals and car shows they buy again .I remember the old litho prints tha all but destroyed our image.


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

A tip for you digi transfer guys and gals when we do a digi transfer as a one off we offer two options to the customer .How I hate that plastic A4 box. Use photoshop plugins to make a custom shape,oval,round etc make a custom border ,bubbles.sharks tooth edge etc. or cut the transfer with pinking shears to an irregular shape or do both.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

If you compare the skill set of screenprinting to the skill set of IJ heat transfers, you are comparing apples to oranges again. 

If you are comparing one printers IJ image to another's IJ image - you may find a vast difference in the level of knowledge and technique for producing those images, that's the "skill set", I at least, am refering to. My own "skills" improved greatly, as did my product, once I found this forum.

If I wanted to buy a screenprinting set up, I know there is an entire set of skills I would have to aquire that is much more involved than learning to IJ transfer. But both require skills.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

mickheike said:


> A tip for you digi transfer guys and gals when we do a digi transfer as a one off we offer two options to the customer . Use photoshop plugins to make a custom shape,oval,round etc make a custom border ,bubbles.sharks tooth edge etc. or cut the transfer with pinking shears to an irregular shape or do both.


Thank you. With my paper, Jetpro, it is recommended to not have square sharp corners, though. But maybe my Ironall dark would tolerate those kind of edges. I would have to test it.



> How I hate that plastic A4 box.


What paper do you use?


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

The one with the little green irons on the back that turn brown when you"ve got it right.We get it from a company in Germany -Flashproducts. Its nothing special washes well lights only.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't know where you are if you order from Germany, maybe Europe, but if you ever get an inkling to try Jetpro, no special wash instruction either, no hand, no fading. 

tshirtsupplies.com has a sample pack for a penny, and low US shipping, so maybe they go easy on international rates as well. They will ship international, you just have to email, I believe, not phone. Best regards.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

The old litho prints now are being in good money if you can find them I see them for sell starting at $5 to $50 per transfers


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

Two years ago Iwas offered hundreds of litho transfers in Turkey typical tourist stuff you could mend tyres with it. As for where are we ,we are in Europe we are a travelling silkscreen roadshow we live and work from our 44 year old mercedes truck We do music festivals where we turn up two or three days before the festival sort out a logo band list crew etc burn screens and print right there. In winter we go south and print surf shirts for the little surf shops who want their own T.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

mickheike said:


> The one with the little green irons on the back that turn brown when you"ve got it right.We get it from a company in Germany -Flashproducts. Its nothing special washes well lights only.


If it's the paper I think it is - it's junk.

That sounds exactly what they supply at my local office supply store (they call those irons "thermok!").

Get yourself a decent paper and you'd be amazed at the difference.

If that's what you're using, no wonder you have such a low opinion of heat transfer.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

mickheike said:


> Two years ago Iwas offered hundreds of litho transfers in Turkey typical tourist stuff you could mend tyres with it. As for where are we ,we are in Europe we are a travelling silkscreen roadshow we live and work from our 44 year old mercedes truck We do music festivals where we turn up two or three days before the festival sort out a logo band list crew etc burn screens and print right there. In winter we go south and print surf shirts for the little surf shops who want their own T.


Ahhh...can I come and tramp around with you?


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

Sure you can tramp with us .Given that our transfer paper is crap .Weare about to make an order for preprint transfers from proworld and it seems they also sell transfer paper for inkjets and laser can you reccomend anything. It is confusing with the brand names cos you know same paper different name. We will be going by the wow people in Holland for a demo of their new no weeding paper.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

*JET-PRO SofStretch Heat Transfer Paper*


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

mickheike said:


> Sure you can tramp with us .Given that our transfer paper is crap .Weare about to make an order for preprint transfers from proworld and it seems they also sell transfer paper for inkjets and laser can you reccomend anything. It is confusing with the brand names cos you know same paper different name. We will be going by the wow people in Holland for a demo of their new no weeding paper.


For laser transfer try Imageclip Coastal Business has EU distributor partner. It is a two step self weeding heat transfer paper.

Southeast Specialty also has the lowest price and will export out of the US.


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

Where can I find jet soft pro stretch in Holland or Germany ?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

_Ohhh, maybe another convert in our future.._.

Hey Mick, 

I can't read some of this, is this helpful?

Neenah Lahnstein GmbH
International subsidiary
Lahnstein, D-56112 Germany
49 02621 177 0 , 49 02621 177 609 fax 
Neenah Lahnstein, Deutschland - Papierhersteller für Spezialpapiere
Company Description: Manufacturing: Manufacturer of nonwovens and specialty papers including impregnated paper and paper made from synthetic fibres

If you do try it, will you let us know what you think, since you would truly be a tough one to convince, be nice to hear your thoughts. You don't have to of course, but since you have such a low regard of transfers, it would be nice to hear if Jetpro can warm your heart to it.

Best regards, and yes, it sounds like you have too much fun roaming around, glad to hear it!!


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

Thanx Kelly neenah are the manufacturers of softjet pro I think? I will contact them and see what they turn up with.For darks we are arranging a demo of the wow paper with magic touch in Holland.


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

hay mick heike let us know what you think of the demo of the wow paper here in usa every one does not like the price


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