# Dye sub prints bleeding onto heat plates - help!



## freedomshop (May 24, 2011)

We've come onto something strange and we can't quite figure out the cause, and therefore can't predict when it will happen. 

Printing on 100% poly white vapor shirts
print both front and back
using teflon on bottom of press
using teflon inside shirt

Checking heat plate for any transfer - it seems clean, also wiped it down, no transfer

We get a slight reversed image of the back of the shirt onto the front, it's cut off where the paper edge is, so I know it's coming from the top (where the heat plate comes down)

Is anyone else having this issue? How did you fix it, do you have any suggestions on how to prevent it?

The marks are very faint, but there. I can post pictures if needed.


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## GOCOASTAL (Mar 24, 2011)

You need unsaved butcher paper. You can buy
it by the roll at SAMs or equivalent. Unfortunately, it needs
Go under shirt, inside shirt, and on top. Watch
Conde Videos on Conde TV. It would be nice
If it was easier but if you want it to look nice, it's a must!
Good luck!
Heidi


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## GOCOASTAL (Mar 24, 2011)

Unwaxed butcher paper. Darn these smart phones!


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## freedomshop (May 24, 2011)

GOCOASTAL said:


> Unwaxed butcher paper. Darn these smart phones!


can you reuse the paper, or do you need to throw it away after every press?

(I would watch the videos, but work computer is hooked up to the store sound, so no sound for me @ work!)


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## cornpopps (Jan 8, 2010)

freedomshop said:


> can you reuse the paper, or do you need to throw it away after every press?
> 
> (I would watch the videos, but work computer is hooked up to the store sound, so no sound for me @ work!)


When you use the butcher paper you will get some of the design on the paper after you press. If that comes in contact with a new garment you will get a ghost image on your garment. If I am using the same design over and over on the same size paper, I will line up the image left over on my butcher paper to my unpressed paper so that the previous image does not touch the new garment to save cutting multiple sheets. I grab a new piece of butcher paper after about 6 presses.


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## INKSLINGER10 (Jul 8, 2009)

Are you wrapping your shirts around the bottom platen. If you are there is no need for the paper. You can use the teflon sheet that were putting inside on the top. Or what I did is took a large teflon sheet and
made a bonnet for the heat plate itself. That way I dont need to keep placing the sheet every press, its already on there. It saves alot of time for production and its a cheap fix for ghosting. PM me and I will send you pics of my press.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

INKSLINGER10 said:


> Are you wrapping your shirts around the bottom platen. If you are there is no need for the paper. You can use the teflon sheet that were putting inside on the top. Or what I did is took a large teflon sheet and
> made a bonnet for the heat plate itself. That way I dont need to keep placing the sheet every press, its already on there. It saves alot of time for production and its a cheap fix for ghosting. PM me and I will send you pics of my press.


And the teflon sheet does not leave a imprint on the shirt. ?I get that alot esp with colored shirts. You can see were the platen rests on the shirt. I have tried light pressure but then my image does not come out correctly,areas of the graphic are not sublimated very well.

Thanks
Mark


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

freedomshop said:


> can you reuse the paper, or do you need to throw it away after every press?
> 
> (I would watch the videos, but work computer is hooked up to the store sound, so no sound for me @ work!)


If you reuse there is the possibility of ghosting happening. You can get the 18" 100 ft roll at sams for like 18 bucks I think. That is what I have so its cheap enough not to have to reuse a sheet. Save yourself the cost of a shirt and throw away after each press.
The biggest hassle is when you have alot of shirts to do and have to cut the sheets for them but not ruining a shirt makes it worth it.
Bought a cheap gullitione cutter at Harbour freight for 20 bucks so goes pretty fast cutting them now.


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## INKSLINGER10 (Jul 8, 2009)

The teflon does not leave marks...it actually works to protect your garment from whatever may be on your heat platen. Your will find that teflon will be a great friend to you when it comes to sublimation. Always have teflon sheets on hand! There is no way around press marks, some fabrics are better than others, it just the nature of the beast. I would rather have a quality print with press marks instead of bad one without.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Ink
I meant with the teflon block that happens on the colored shirts.

Thanks
M


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## INKSLINGER10 (Jul 8, 2009)

Im assumimng you meant...will the teflon sheet leave a press mark effect. Im sure it would...thats why you get a sheet the size of your heat press...not the size if the image your pressing.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

No I have those. I don't get much press marks cuz I trim for the most part. Hassle but its been the best way for me.

I have more issues with colored shirts and after pressing have that big shiny block from the top platen left on the shirt.

I appreciate it.

Mark


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## INKSLINGER10 (Jul 8, 2009)

I know what you mean...well it does work as a safe guard for the heat as well, and thats what is causing that block you are speaking of.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

I have jury rigged a sheet on to test it out.
Not sure what the differece would be tho when just setting the teflon on top of the transfer but I do forget sometimes so your way will keep me from forgetting to doing that when I am moving along.

Thanks


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

If teflon is to prevent ink from ghosting on to the next shirt, why is it when i have a teflon wrap on the bottom platen, when i press a shirt...flip it over to do the other side, sometimes it ghosts on to the platen, and if i don't wipe it off, it will ghost onto the next shirt?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

The gas or ink resides on the teflon. And when you press the next shirt its reactivated by the heat and latches on to the shirt.
I have a bottom teflon sheet but when I do two sided shirts I still lay butcher paper over that on the bottom platen and toss it after each shirt as I am brain dead and forget to wipe the bottom teflon at times.


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

freebird1963 said:


> The gas or ink resides on the teflon. And when you press the next shirt its reactivated by the heat and latches on to the shirt.
> I have a bottom teflon sheet but when I do two sided shirts I still lay butcher paper over that on the bottom platen and toss it after each shirt as I am brain dead and forget to wipe the bottom teflon at times.


Ok...so it doesn't prevent it from transfering (thought it did), but it is easily wiped, which is what we do. 

i just thought it prevented it from needing to be wiped off.


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## freedomshop (May 24, 2011)

Ok, our presses have t shirts on the bottom, should we setup one without that? We also have the rubber stuff (don't know proper terms for that, sorry) that is covered by a shirt. This works for our other applications, but maybe the transfer is occurring because of that? 

We did use teflon between the base and the printing shirt though...


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## freedomshop (May 24, 2011)

We have a bigger job starting today, so I'll try the new bonnet we got and unwaxed butcher paper and let you know how it goes, and the process that we come up with. (if i remember


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

Karen,

this setup works for us every time:

Rubber mat 
Teflon sheet
T-shirt - depending on the kind of the print I'm doing I use variety of foam or felt inserts in different sizes to lift the area of the shirt I need to press. The transfer paper should be bigger then the insert, then there will be no press marks on the shirt.
Sometimes I put teflon sheet on top to keep the transfer from shifting, sometimes I use light positioning spray to hold the transfer in place or tacky paper.

I'm trying to imagine how the ink from your transfers can contaminate the top platten and I have a question: When you take your prints off the printer - do you stack them or wait for them to dry properly? Maybe (if you stack them) some of the ink gets onto the top of the transfer sheet and when you press it - bleeds on the top platten? Start pressing a t-shirt the way you do, but instead of the other side - put a pice of test fabric in the press and see what happens. 

If you could post a picture - it would help to find the problem.

Wiping teflon sheets as often as possible is a good practice. Windex or methilated spirit is what I use.


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

freebird1963 said:


> I have tried light pressure but then my image does not come out correctly,areas of the graphic are not sublimated very well.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark



When you lower the pressure you have to encrease dwell time - i.e. if you were using 40 sec on medium pressure, try 60 sec on light and you should get the right result.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

D.Evo. said:


> When you lower the pressure you have to encrease dwell time - i.e. if you were using 40 sec on medium pressure, try 60 sec on light and you should get the right result.


I have gone up to 67 secs and still a no go. I thought maybe the top platen was warped but doesn't seem to be.
I am just going to have to find some cheap poly shirts to practice on more and dial in the settings that will work.

Thanks
Mark


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## freedomshop (May 24, 2011)

D.Evo. said:


> I'm trying to imagine how the ink from your transfers can contaminate the top platten and I have a question: When you take your prints off the printer - do you stack them or wait for them to dry properly? Maybe (if you stack them) some of the ink gets onto the top of the transfer sheet and when you press it - bleeds on the top platten?


Maybe this is the problem. I never even thought the paper itself has the "ghost". I do let them dry, but maybe a few didn't. How long do you personally wait for them to dry?


The bleeding is a "back" design ghosting when we do the "front" design on the next shirt. (just thinking out loud here)
So I don't see how the back can bleed to the front, because when i stack them they are the same design stacked from the printer...


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## stewstew (Jan 31, 2012)

i hear many people talk about using butcher paper or kraft paper. i noticed that these rolls of paper come in different "basis weights" (i.e. 10lb, 20lb, 30lb, 40lb, etc.) which basis weight paper should i buy for sublimation?


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

freebird1963 said:


> I have gone up to 67 secs and still a no go. I thought maybe the top platen was warped but doesn't seem to be.
> I am just going to have to find some cheap poly shirts to practice on more and dial in the settings that will work.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark


Hi Mark,

You can buy the EXACT same fabric that vapor makes their shirts out of from Conde by the yard. That is what we use to 'dial in' our processing.

-James


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

If you have a small newsparer or buyers guide in your area, they sell end rolls of newsprint, works great.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Brown Kraft paper is your best friend when doing Dye subbing. 3 under and 3 over the fabric and transfer. 
Stay away from Teflon next to the fabric.It gives the outgasing no where to go. Rotate the cheap Kraft paper so you don't reprint the extra dye back on the next shirt.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

skdave said:


> Brown Kraft paper is your best friend when doing Dye subbing. 3 under and 3 over the fabric and transfer.
> Stay away from Teflon next to the fabric.It gives the outgasing no where to go. Rotate the cheap Kraft paper so you don't reprint the extra dye back on the next shirt.


In addition, teflon is a heat insulator and diverts heat away from the substrate if placed on top of the transfer.


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