# DTG Wash Results



## Arithian (Dec 27, 2007)

I am currently looking into buying a DTG Printer. My biggest concern isnt so much the cost of the printer as it is the wash results over time. I was told by the sales rep that "the image doesnt fade it just looses fibers as the shirt is washed so it _looks _faded."

So my question is... how many washes before it gets this _look _of being faded?

Also, how many washes usually before you see cracking in a black shirt?

I also realize that specifics are near impossible but I am just looking for ballpark figures.


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## Tagger (Sep 16, 2007)

Most manufacturers will provide both white and black samples. No better experience than washing them and see the results yourself be it fading, cracking, pilling or the lost fibers they mentioned.


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Tagger said:


> Most manufacturers will provide both white and black samples. No better experience than washing them and see the results yourself be it fading, cracking, pilling or the lost fibers they mentioned.


I have done a controlled wash test using three inks printed single pass 360E single CMYK and cured on a heat press with light pressure at 360. Washing in warm water, dried in a dryer 11 times. You can see the results better in person. The R&H was superior all the way. Of course it is out of production now. The DTGINK was superior to DuPont in all colors after the fourth wash- in the control sample the DuPont blue looked better. By the 11th wash the DuPont looked unusable, the DTGINK looked passable, the R & H still looked good.To get better results with DuPont it is now reported that you need to cure twice, but I have not yet wash tested that in the same controlled way.


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## theragingbuffalo (Aug 12, 2007)

HEy Michelle,

I know at some point Dan had mentioned that some of the inks being tested were able to mix with dupont, so that there would be no waste when switching over. Is this on compatable with dupont. I have been ordering ink in 125ml bottles so that I don't have a lot of ink on hand if and when I make the switch.

Thanks,
Joe


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

theragingbuffalo said:


> HEy Michelle,
> 
> I know at some point Dan had mentioned that some of the inks being tested were able to mix with dupont, so that there would be no waste when switching over. Is this on compatable with dupont. I have been ordering ink in 125ml bottles so that I don't have a lot of ink on hand if and when I make the switch.
> 
> ...


As I understand it, this DTGINK is compatible with DuPont and I _think_ with R & H too- as far as you can add it directly to them- BUT I have not tried it yet as I don't think is availble for sale quite yet. I have been told that two OEMs are also introducing new private labeled inks at the New Year(one has already announced that they will not be compatible and will require a system flush)- so I suggest wash tests are in order. The recommendations are a place to start, but fine tuning may be necessary for your local conditions.

As far as wash tests go- , I suggest that you always do your own wash testing.

Take a shirt and place 12 identical images on it and cure them - write down the settings. Do another shirt same design, but cure differently ( maybe cure twice, raise temp, whatever variable you want to test), etc. Wash and cut out and image, wash and cut out an image. In this way you can determine the best cure times for your humidity, your heat press or dryer, your preferred print resolutions and know what your customers are getting. It is worth the investment in a few shirts and time to know what you can fell very confident in offering.


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

Mistewoods interesting wash test, did you load all of these inks into your personal machine or have these printed for you?

I would be interested to see how the Dupont inks look after the new recommended press time and temps


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

csquared said:


> Mistewoods interesting wash test, did you load all of these inks into your personal machine or have these printed for you?
> 
> I would be interested to see how the Dupont inks look after the new recommended press time and temps


I did not load them all into my machine- but had them printed and heat pressed to specific settings- as this is a part of my daughter's science fair project. They all had to be printed on Flexi-jets, print settings and heat press temp and times the same so the only variable was the ink.

The "new" settings from DuPont unfortunately are just a conversation someone from DuPont had with an individual. I'd really like to to see a major corporation like that back up their recommended settings with actual research (as R & H had done) and publicly make them available to manufacturers and distributors who can then make them available to their customers- rather than random conversations and requests to spread it around.


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

The NEW settings for Dupont ink was not just based on a conversation. It is based on what their extensive research told them was the optimal cure settings for their new white ink: 120-180 seconds at 330...These settings were somehow never relayed to the distributors selling the new ink and so they were still recommending the old settings of 60-90 seconds.
Either way, the test you ran was very nice and well thought out based on the info you had but unfortunately, is not a good comparison to the dupont ink. I used to use the old R&H inks and loved them, but with the new settings I really like the new Dupont inks just as much and they are a little brighter, too. I now cure for 150 seconds at 330 and get great wash results...Your test run with these settings would yield much different results. The test you ran with only a 60 second cure should and did show terrible results for the dupont ink as that is not even close to being long enough...Again, I am not bashing your test as those were the settings being recommended and the test was very well designed and appreciated, just confirming that at the new longer cure settings there is a dramatic difference.


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## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

vinstr said:


> The NEW settings for Dupont ink was not just based on a conversation. It is based on what their extensive research told them was the optimal cure settings for their new white ink: 120-180 seconds at 330...These settings were somehow never relayed to the distributors selling the new ink and so they were still recommending the old settings of 60-90 seconds.
> .


The relaying of this research is very helpful!I am simply a machine owner doing my own research. 

If anyone actually represents DuPont officially- it would be great to know that and hear it "official."My concern is that an *official bulletin* with these recommendations supported by research has not been published or relayed by *DuPont* to all manufacturers and distributors- at least it had not as of recently. 

Also if this very long cure time is effective- and that is great news- I am still hoping for a new ink that can cure as fast as R & H with as good wash results. By increasing the temp ( as per the previously published chart by R & H) with R & H the cure time can be reduced to 15-20 seconds and maintain superior washability- while radically increasing production. I have tested this also and can confirm it. Now since R & H is gone- it would be great to have something similar enter the market- it obviously can be done.


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## vinstr (Nov 5, 2007)

Yes, that would be great and before the new cure times were explained to me I did try all kinds of settings for curing including some for 60-90 seconds at 370 but ending up scorching the shirts...so just from my experiences I could not get any good wash tests at 90 seconds or below at any setting...
I stinks having to cure so long, but at 150 seconds I really do get great results and the inks are brighter and look great so its a trade off I can easily live with- I also have a press with the auto open feature so I just close the press, forget it and can go do other things...I do not know how I lived before the auto open!


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