# what is colour laser dye sublimation?



## peppapig134 (Jul 4, 2011)

hi folks can anyone tell me in simple terms what colour laser dye sublimation is please? i didnt know u could sublimate with a colour laser printer! is this what the oki printers are then? how do they differ from ur epsons and ricohs? do they work out cheaper? whats the pros and cons of laser printers for dye sub v ur epsons and ricohs? any help would be very much appreciated, tez in uk.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

peppapig134 said:


> hi folks can anyone tell me in simple terms what colour laser dye sublimation is please? i didnt know u could sublimate with a colour laser printer! is this what the oki printers are then? how do they differ from ur epsons and ricohs? do they work out cheaper? whats the pros and cons of laser printers for dye sub v ur epsons and ricohs? any help would be very much appreciated, tez in uk.


I don't believe you can refer to laser toner transfer as sublimation. Dye sublimation is a process that turns a specially formulated ink into a gas at about 400f (204c) and fuses it to a polyester fabric or a poly coated substrate. 

Laser printers use toner..not ink. There are so called sublimation toners available but they are quite expensive initially, but may work out to be cheaper in the long run. I am not sure if this system will work with fabric or not. You can transfer regular oem toners from some printers to fabric using special papers. Here are a couple of links to suppliers that sell these systems and some info for you.
Full Color Laser Sublimation: Color Laser Sublimation Cartridges for the gold and silver trophy metal used in awards
Laser Transfer Papers | Stahls' ID


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Sublimation toner is quite popular for single color on
Metal.

Full color really never made it.

Xante made a run at it along with a few others.

Lots of transfer residue and quality was just not there.

The last issue was speed and the Ricoh's were
the final straw.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

LB said:


> I don't believe you can refer to laser toner transfer as sublimation. Dye sublimation is a process that turns a specially formulated ink into a gas at about 400f (204c) and fuses it to a polyester fabric or a poly coated substrate.
> 
> Laser printers use toner..not ink. There are so called sublimation toners available but they are quite expensive initially, but may work out to be cheaper in the long run. I am not sure if this system will work with fabric or not. You can transfer regular oem toners from some printers to fabric using special papers. Here are a couple of links to suppliers that sell these systems and some info for you.
> Full Color Laser Sublimation: Color Laser Sublimation Cartridges for the gold and silver trophy metal used in awards
> Laser Transfer Papers | Stahls' ID


Sublimation dye can be put in pens, crayons, screen printing inks, laser toners, ink jet inks, and offset press as well, it is not specific to ink jet. I disagree on your term "so called sublimation toner", it is true sublimation.

There are 2 types of laser sublimation. One is magnetic toner based (older HP's) and resin based (OKI and others).

The magnetic toner based lasers are good for metals mostly as the toner backgrounds too much to be useful for fabrics. The coated metals (and some plastic substrates) have a plastic protective temporary covering on the substrate. 

The trick with magnetic subtoner is that it can "shoot" thru the temporary covering on the substrate and still imprint the item, this will block any stray toner so it is _very inexpensive_ method commonly used in the awards and trophy business.

Resin based sublimation toner (OKI) has the same function as ink jet sublimation and can be used on any sublimation surface. If used on hardgoods some "base" toner will need to be removed from the surface ... not to be confused with the stray toner problem with magnetic. Softgoods with resin based subtoner do not require any toner cleaning.

I have in the past used magnetic subtoner on a HP LJ2, but when Resin based subtoner came out I no longer used magnetic subtoner.

I have 2 Resin based subtoner lasers. The OKI 5200 with ATI subtoner installed I have can print at better than half the price of Sawgrass based desktop systems. I use for up to legal size sublimation Tshirt transfers and is my weapon of choice for mousepads. 

Nothing on the desktop can produce volume mousepads as fast and cheap as subtoner. I have 2 16 x 20 presses which can print and press a bunch of mousepads all at the same time. The OKI 5200 print speed combined with 2 large heat press = unbeatable production speed. And then the cost per print is better than half of any Sawgrass desktop system.

The black on the OKI 5200 using ATI subtoner is as black as black can get.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

peppapig134 said:


> hi folks can anyone tell me in simple terms what colour laser dye sublimation is please? i didnt know u could sublimate with a colour laser printer! is this what the oki printers are then? how do they differ from ur epsons and ricohs? do they work out cheaper? whats the pros and cons of laser printers for dye sub v ur epsons and ricohs? any help would be very much appreciated, tez in uk.


See my post above and below for the differences. For fabrics you would need a resin based laser system. They cover newer OKI's, I have the older 5200 system.

Automatic Transfer, Inc. - Sublimation Transfer Inks and Papers

If you contact them I'm sure they will send you sample transfers.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Conde_David said:


> Sublimation toner is quite popular for single color on
> Metal.
> 
> Full color really never made it.
> ...


No issue with transfer residue on softgoods using OKI. Toner residue with resin based laser and subtoner does not need to be removed.

Quality? On softgoods OKI resolution is good enough for fabrics. DPI is lower than inkjet but you can't achieve "photo quality" or 300 dpi resolution on any fabic anyway. Quality depends on printer DPI, substrate capability, and profile if the subtoner is made right.

Subtoner on my OKI looks better than anything I can do with OEM toner, and on fabrics I have denser colors and more pop than ink jet sublimation. The newer OKI's ATI covers are equal or better than inkjet sublimation on fabics, I don't have a newer OKI but the samples I got from ATI and transfered on fabric are excellent.

Using a higher resolution KM I made this on a ceramic tile. Quality is there with subtoner. For hardgoods, yes, you must remove toner, so I give inkjet sub the advantage there. I use inkjet sub for HG's and > legal size transfers.

[media]http://www.mgparrish.com/ts/cocacola.jpg[/media]

Speed? You are stating that a Ricoh Ink Jet prints faster than an OKI laser, even my older 5200? No way.

Full color subtoner has it's place and some advantages over inkjet sublimation, and it is still available. _I print at less than half the cost of anything Sawgrass offers for the desktop using ATI subtoner on a 5200._

My only disadvantage of using laser subtoner for fabrics is going to tabloid size where the printer costs are not competitive with Ink Jet tabloid. But I would make the same statement about OEM toner transfers as well.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

Mike,
Thank you for the in depth and technical lesson on toners and the like. Knowing that you are far more experienced than me at sublimation, I accept what you are saying as the truth.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Good info.
My first love was laser.
I did the electronics for the first laser's
at QMS (based on Xerox engines then Canon)

I think it is hard to compete with colored
water.

Speed is just no longer an issue as
the printer out runs the press.

From a green point of view, laser is
at a disadvantage.

Thank you for your great posts.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Conde_David said:


> Good info.
> My first love was laser.
> I did the electronics for the first laser's
> at QMS (based on Xerox engines then Canon)
> ...


My first sub printer was a HP LJ2 w/Canon engine plus a QMS Jetscript board I installed inside my PC. I used "Black lightning" subtoner.

I agree on the speed of making tshirts and HG's with sublimation due to dwell times, but the one exception is for mousepads. I can put 4 up on a 16 x 20 and press (all at once) and I have 2 16x 20 presses. Can't gang up tshirts on a press like you can mousepads..

I can print and produce them fast and cheap and then get aggressive on volume pricing.

Agree that toner is less green than colored water.

The biggest advantage of sublaser is cost per print, here it is hard to compete using SG's "colored water" vs subtoner.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> No issue with transfer residue on softgoods using OKI. Toner residue with resin based laser and subtoner does not need to be removed.
> 
> When using Oki laser sub on soft goods, are you limited to poly? What paper do you prefer?
> 
> ...


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## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

How does the durability of laser toner compare to that of ink jet?
Jimc


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jimc said:


> How does the durability of laser toner compare to that of ink jet?
> Jimc


 
Both processes are very durable. On 100% polyester subimation (ink jet or laser) creates a molecular bond.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

American logoZ said:


> mgparrish said:
> 
> 
> > No issue with transfer residue on softgoods using OKI. Toner residue with resin based laser and subtoner does not need to be removed.
> ...


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## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

Mike
What I should have asked was how laser sublimation compares with inkjet sublimation rather than inket in general.
I do a lot of sublimation on aluminium using Epson 1400 with Artanium CISS and would be interested to know if the laser method was more or less durable in terms of UV and abrasive issues.

Jim


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jimc said:


> Mike
> What I should have asked was how laser sublimation compares with inkjet sublimation rather than inket in general.
> I do a lot of sublimation on aluminium using Epson 1400 with Artanium CISS and would be interested to know if the laser method was more or less durable in terms of UV and abrasive issues.
> 
> Jim


I was refering to ink jet sublimation comparison, not inkjet in general. I was comparing laser sub vs ink jet sub on 50/50 tshirts.

UV I can't comment on, abrasive issues are due to coatings, the sublimation method doesn't matter in that respect.

For metals laser sublimation toner may not be necessary to clean if you keep the protective plastic cover on the item ... the dye can actually shoot stright through the cover and still sublimate the substrate.

Full Color Laser Sublimation: Color Laser Sublimation Cartridges for the gold and silver trophy metal used in awards

"The transfer is put into a heat press, face up, and the metal is placed over it, face down. The plastic cover is left on the metal because the toners are powerful enough to blow right on through it, with great results. When you peel the transfer off, the plate is ready for mounting."

That type of laser subtoner is not good for tshirts though. ATI toner is good for softgoods and hardgoods.


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