# Silk Screening Patterns/Shading?



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Does anyone know how these to shirts/jackets were made? One involves a pattern over the whole shirt which I have seen many times, possibly skulls or pills or hearts or stuff like that this is one that I found off the top of my head. Do they screen it before the shirt is even sewn together?

And the other questions is about shading. Is that one screen but somehow shading is used or is one screen used for every shade of black. 

Both are attached. Thanks


-austin


----------



## lisalee (Jan 20, 2007)

I have the same questions!  I am doing a lot of pen and ink/shaded drawings. When it comes to screening will all of the tones of grey be on one screen? I am a total newbie. Soorrrrry if it sounds redundant. Lisa


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

All over printing is either done on a belt printer (as with that animal shirt) after the shirt is sewn (or occasionally on a table after the shirt is sewn), or as you mentioned the fabric is printed _before_ the shirt is sewn together.

In terms of shading... sometimes it's done by using multiple ink colours (I'd say that's what's happening here with the skull), sometimes it's done with halftones.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Solmu said:


> All over printing is either done on a belt printer (as with that animal shirt) after the shirt is sewn (or occasionally on a table after the shirt is sewn), or as you mentioned the fabric is printed _before_ the shirt is sewn together.
> 
> In terms of shading... sometimes it's done by using multiple ink colours (I'd say that's what's happening here with the skull), sometimes it's done with halftones.


 
hmm i will look into this belt printer stuff thanks man


-austin


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ieaturheart said:


> hmm i will look into this belt printer stuff thanks man


You might find this thread useful:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t8891.html

Not much information, but a few sources on where to get the printing done.


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

The Skull shirt looks like maybe 2-3 colors Black and possible 1-2 shades of gray.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Fluid said:


> The Skull shirt looks like maybe 2-3 colors Black and possible 1-2 shades of gray.


Wow ok so would you suggest me try to look for something more than a used 4 color silk screener which is what I have been searching around for. Maybe like 6-color or something, if I plan on making similar designs. Also I know there is maybe a forum for this but any idea, while Im on the subject of a ballpark estimate I should plan on spending for a used silk screener. I have heard different values from different sources. One more quick question any suggestions where to go to find one in my area or surrounding cities? Should I just call silk screening shops? Thanks


-austin


----------



## TeddyRocky (Mar 23, 2007)

ieaturheart said:


> Wow ok so would you suggest me try to look for something more than a used 4 color silk screener which is what I have been searching around for. Maybe like 6-color or something, if I plan on making similar designs. Also I know there is maybe a forum for this but any idea, while Im on the subject of a ballpark estimate I should plan on spending for a used silk screener. I have heard different values from different sources. One more quick question any suggestions where to go to find one in my area or surrounding cities? Should I just call silk screening shops? Thanks
> 
> 
> -austin


He's not saying you can't achieve the gradient look with a 4 color press. You just need to use halftones. He was just saying the example that was shown seemed to be printed with different ink colors (different greys and such) instead of halftones. If you're not a full blown screen printer and not planning to be for awhile, I would stick to a 4 press machine. Learning the technique of making the shirt look like more than 4 colors is the tricky part. I am just starting out as well, and just bought a 4 color press, I think it will be more than enough for awhile. If you can afford a machine with micro registration, than that'll be a plus.


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I would suggest to everyone getting into the industry - Get a 6-clr press.
A 4-clr will limit you big time as to what you can print. On darks your limited to a 3 colro design as youll loose a color for the underbase.

If you plan on printing for schools, comapnies, organizations, etc. a 4-clr will definently limit your ability to produce the majority of the work out there.
Getting a 6-clr 6 station is also best for this aspect of the industry as 6 stations will rprint more shirts faster with less fatigue than a 4 station press


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Fluid said:


> I would suggest to everyone getting into the industry - Get a 6-clr press.
> A 4-clr will limit you big time as to what you can print. On darks your limited to a 3 colro design as youll loose a color for the underbase.
> 
> If you plan on printing for schools, comapnies, organizations, etc. a 4-clr will definently limit your ability to produce the majority of the work out there.
> Getting a 6-clr 6 station is also best for this aspect of the industry as 6 stations will rprint more shirts faster with less fatigue than a 4 station press


 
yeah i know that its just i need to compare the cost versus the need. the reason is because i will never really be in a position (in my opinion) where i will be throwing out 100 shirts at a time since it is quality (ie handmade, hand screened, hand painted, hand dyed, signed, and numbered) not really quantity. i think a 6 color is what i might look for but any suggestions on pricing/finding one in possibly texas? should i call local screening companies? one more thing halftones? i assume using to similar colors on one screen?
thanks sorry for the lowercase was too lazy/studying/tired to do anything else. :]


-austin


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

my typing is horrible as you probably already noticed  Oh well.

As far as used equipment, U.S. Screen Print and Inkjet Technology has a classififed section with people all over selling and buying. Check there.

Halftones are used in a couple of ways.
One color prints with various shades of the same color - looks like more colors printed yet only one actually was (greyscale) Depending on the dot size and shape will determine how well this type of print will look. Smooth or course
Another use of halftones is in the mixing of color on press.
A blend of yellow to blue will utilize a halftone gradient. (see attached)
wher the blue overlaps the yellow youll get a green


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Fluid said:


> my typing is horrible as you probably already noticed  Oh well.
> 
> As far as used equipment, U.S. Screen Print and Inkjet Technology has a classififed section with people all over selling and buying. Check there.
> 
> ...


 
hmm alright thanks again for the advice. studying for a test on thurs has burnt my brain so im out for now. but i will check out that website. also any idea how much i should plan to drop on a 6 color press? any advice in that area?


-austin


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> One more quick question any suggestions where to go to find one in my area or surrounding cities? Should I just call silk screening shops? Thanks


Check this thread for companies that can do that type printing:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t8891.html


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Rodney said:


> Check this thread for companies that can do that type printing:
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t8891.html


 
thanks for the advice i will look into that if i ever have the need to do that. 

i have been calling local screen printing places and searching the web but no luck at all. and if i do happen to come across a used 6-color silkscreener any suggestions on prices i should look for. even if its a ballpark it would help. any other suggestions on finding one? i typed in classifieds screen printing in google and classifieds (a ton of other similar things) and came up with a lot of nothing. thanks


-austin


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> nd if i do happen to come across a used 6-color silkscreener any suggestions on prices i should look for. even if its a ballpark it would help. any other suggestions on finding one


Are you looking for the machine or someone to do the printing?


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Rodney said:


> Are you looking for the machine or someone to do the printing?


 
the machine, everything is done by hand by me. i dye a shirt, i screen it, i sew on it, i paint it, i number it, i sign it. so i was/is in a rut because since im putting out quality versus quantity, the rut i was stuck in was it worth the money to buy my own screening press or to get someone to do just that part for me? and i asked myself that question and i just feel it would no longer be handmade by me and each one be unique if i didnt do everything myself in my garage. idk maybe im crazy. but yes the machine i was looking for a 4-color press but someone (dont remember who) with some wisdom on these forums suggested getting a 6-color press. so im curious as to how to go about finding a used 6 color press (pref in my area or even in texas) and how much i should expect to spend on a used one. thanks


-austin


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ieaturheart said:


> i typed in classifieds screen printing in google and classifieds (a ton of other similar things) and came up with a lot of nothing.


Did you see the ones Richard mentioned at TSPMB - The Screen Printers Message Board?


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ieaturheart said:


> the machine i was looking for a 4-color press but someone (dont remember who) with some wisdom on these forums suggested getting a 6-color press.


That was Richard, and he's right that a 6 colour is far more preferable. That said, because of that you can often find a much better deal on a 4, which might be worthwhile to start up (but better to find a good deal on a 6 if you can).


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Solmu said:


> That was Richard, and he's right that a 6 colour is far more preferable. That said, because of that you can often find a much better deal on a 4, which might be worthwhile to start up (but better to find a good deal on a 6 if you can).


 
thanks a super lot for the advice, im going to look for a 6-color one anyone with ballpark estimate of a used one? 400? 600? 1000? thanks for answering all my questions guys [:


-austin


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

I wouldn't think this is all over printing with a screen printing press because it's printed on the collar itself. You can't screen print on a collar because of the raised surface, (actually you can but not with good quality). You can make a platen that recesses in the collar area, but then you would have to have a platen for almost every size and that's not real efficient.

My guess would be an oversized Direct to Garment printer. Lay it flat, place a piece of paper in the neck area and print.


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ieaturheart said:


> im going to look for a 6-color one anyone with ballpark estimate of a used one? 400? 600? 1000?


$1000 as a vague ballpark figure, but you may find a "must go!" bargain for a few hundred, or end up spending several thousand on something good.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

JeridHill said:


> I wouldn't think this is all over printing with a screen printing press because it's printed on the collar itself. You can't screen print on a collar because of the raised surface, (actually you can but not with good quality). You can make a platen that recesses in the collar area, but then you would have to have a platen for almost every size and that's not real efficient.
> 
> My guess would be an oversized Direct to Garment printer. Lay it flat, place a piece of paper in the neck area and print.


hmm alright i see what your saying. i own some other shirts with printing on the neck and collar. i cant see them spending that much time on it but maybe they have a system. thanks



Solmu said:


> $1000 as a vague ballpark figure, but you may find a "must go!" bargain for a few hundred, or end up spending several thousand on something good.


 
ok thanks for the advice i appreciate it

-austin


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

discharge with pigments added makes for printing over seams, collars, and off the shirt prints easy as pie with no special equipment.


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Fluid said:


> discharge with pigments added makes for printing over seams, collars, and off the shirt prints easy as pie with no special equipment.


That's good to know, but wouldn't you still have a not so great print in the area where the shirt meets the raised surface?


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

Nope as the discharge (pigments added) remove the dye and replace with the color pigment. No buildup at all.

Here is one of our shirts we did messing around with the discharge a while back. Its over the colllar and off the shirt.
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=109368&img=ts1.jpg


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

So essentially, this could be an all over print using discharge inks as well, gotcha.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

JeridHill said:


> So essentially, this could be an all over print using discharge inks as well, gotcha.


 
sorry the noob here, what exactly are discharge inks? im trying to learn all this silk screening stuff i know the basics just trying to learn as much as i can. thanks


-austin


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

do a forums search on Discharge printing.
Also check out
U.S. Screen Print and Inkjet Technology tons of info there as well.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Fluid said:


> do a forums search on Discharge printing.
> Also check out
> U.S. Screen Print and Inkjet Technology tons of info there as well.


 
as always thanks Richard


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

not a problem. There have been a lot of posts here and at usscreen on discharge which will help you a lot more than just a sime reply.

Also checking out
Union, Rutland and wilflex websites will give you info straight from the source.

Good luck - Glad to help


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Fluid said:


> not a problem. There have been a lot of posts here and at usscreen on discharge which will help you a lot more than just a sime reply.
> 
> Also checking out
> Union, Rutland and wilflex websites will give you info straight from the source.
> ...


 
thanks yeah it makes sense, lol, what was funny was the post i clicked on was actually answered by you. go figure. so if im dying my own shirts lets say im dying a shirt black. then cant i put dye preventer or something where my image will go and black wont go on there? 

if so, then essentially if i want stripes on my shirt i can 'dye' the stripes on by putting dye preventer (if this even exsists) on the white parts i want white then dye the shirt black to be left with big black stripes but still feels like a nice soft shirt? thanks


-austin

p.s. solmu/lewis mentioned electric dye pots i searched the forums and found nothing and then went to google, what does he mean?


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ieaturheart said:


> p.s. solmu/lewis mentioned electric dye pots i searched the forums and found nothing and then went to google, what does he mean?


You won't find anything on the forums, as fabric dyeing has rarely been discussed.

What "he" meant is what "he" said... it's pretty straight forward. If you needed clarification, asking me would make more sense than asking other people what I meant.

I did notice when I chucked the term into Google there were minimal results, so there's probably a more correct term I'm not using. While there are cold water dyes, most dyes are hot. So you could use a near-boiling pot of water on a stove, _or_ you could use an electric dye pot: it's just a metal dye pot with a heating element in it basically, not much to it.

As for dye resist... that's the entire point of batik, so yes it can be done. Shibori could also give you the same results, although probably not the clean straight lines I imagine you'd want.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Solmu said:


> You won't find anything on the forums, as fabric dyeing has rarely been discussed.
> 
> What "he" meant is what "he" said... it's pretty straight forward. If you needed clarification, asking me would make more sense than asking other people what I meant.
> 
> ...


 
o sorry i didnt mean to 'go around you' or find someone else because i dont think you know what you are talking about its just rather than pointing the question towards you alone i just opened it up. i didnt mean to offend anyone and sorry if i did. i feel bad about the whole deal, now i know. 

so that is what batik is!?! lol

and also yes i see what you are saying im thinking (i know this sounds weird but hey im from the south) about taking what people use to boil grawfish in, which is a huge huge pot that sits on a gas flame and dying my stuff in there. i think that might be my best bet. thanks


-austin


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ieaturheart said:


> o sorry i didnt mean to 'go around you' or find someone else because i dont think you know what you are talking about


That's okay - I don't know everything, so I wouldn't even mind if you _had_ decided you'd exhausted all you were going to get from me and wanted to go around me  I just don't like it when people ask other people what someone "meant" instead of asking the person who meant it.

Anyway, no hard feelings.

Moving on...



ieaturheart said:


> im thinking (i know this sounds weird but hey im from the south) about taking what people use to boil grawfish in, which is a huge huge pot that sits on a gas flame and dying my stuff in there


I know nothing about boiling grawfish (or even what a grawfish is ), but that sounds suitable.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

Solmu said:


> I know nothing about boiling grawfish (or even what a grawfish is ), but that sounds suitable.


oops i meant crawfish i just couldnt spell last night. but yeah people boil crawfish in these huge like pots. they have to be bigger then 5 gallons and they sit on a metal stand that is connected to a small gas tank and a flame heats the pot then people gather around and boil crawfish. i know im going to do this so i can have it always heating (not boiling) the water and more capacity to dye shirts and move around in. thanks for the advice lewis. 



-austin


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

crawfish - pretty much a baby ditch lobster  totally tasty
http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/People/Grad_Students/huifangq/food/HuifangCookings/edited/crawfish.jpg
man Im hungry now


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

crawfish are amazing are they not Richard? mmm im going to bed maybe i will have a dream about them, lol. o and im originally from louisiana so you know how we are about crawfish. 


-austin


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I love'em. Nuttin like a crawfish boil and beer


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

thanks to everyone who gave me advice/tips/help on this thread.

I appreciate it a super duper lot.


-austin


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

Hope we all were able to help.


----------



## ieaturheart (Apr 2, 2007)

yall all did
this is the best thing i ever did in my t-shirt adventures 
wish i would have known about this a year ago, because i have learned more in two weeks then in the last 52 weeks. thanks so much.

-austin


----------

