# Some people are stupid.



## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

So I get this order he sends me 1 logo 1 color. I quote him the price for 48. Cool be said he wanted a cheaper price from dtg that he was paying $8.00 a shirt. We met for the deposit and he also gives me 4 shirts as a sample to look at. Ok cool. So after I get home I notice all 4 shirts have 2 colors where white is the underbase. I call him and explain that the price I quoted was for the one color. He says why I want 3 of each design on 3 shirts. Im like ok but now your'e looking a 7 screens plus his artwork needed to be done for screen print. I refunded his money back but now he wants to do 1 shirt 2 color. How much would you charge for this order with 7 screens and 48. He wants 3 of each design size from s to 2x or 3xl. He also said he has the shirts.


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## veetwincowboy (Mar 14, 2015)

Typical stuff, I have had several bar owners want to bring me shirts to print, I usually smile and say ok, but i'll be bringing my own whiskey to your bar to drink... anyway, I charge 20-30 per screen depending on the design. multi color shirts are usually about 10 or more before the size upcharge and if I have to clean up artwork its 50 an hour (if i'm not busy,) with a half hour minimum. And I get a few that tell me they have the artwork and I have to re negotiate later because they don't have any or they expect me to pull it together for them.. it all comes with the territory though


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

I'm not feeling generous today, had two of these today. Full set up fees + Whatever your minimum total is divided by the # of prints he wants, for each design (at least) and I would suggest he use DTG for samples and screening for volume.


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## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

Politely tell the bar owner that he needs at least 12 shirts of each design. That is the minimum per design. He will get a quantity discount on the shirts alone if you are providing the shirts. The screens are totaled up at whatever you charge per screen. The printing is priced at a quantity of 12 times however many designs he has and how many colors per design. If he wants to provide his own shirts, add 25% to the printing charges. Plus the usual disclaimer for customer provided shirts. This is just one way to handle the situation. 
There is a reason DTG was invented, and this kind of order that he wants you to do is the reason.


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## BidsMaven (Sep 23, 2011)

I suggest establishing a minimum order qty for your shop and a minimum order amount. For example, a minimum order qty of 24 shirts and a minimum order amount of $80. It's just not worth the time and aggravation of dealing with the kind of customer you mentioned. You can cheerfully let people know what your minimums are and send them on their way. You can always waive the minimum or just not mention it for your regular customers.

Bob, love your comment about bringing your own whiskey. Have to say...sometimes humor can work wonders to get people to understand the other guy's viewpoint.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

"Some people are stupid"? 

That's not very nice. If your customers knew as much about printing as you did, they wouldn't need you. We should be educating, not ridiculing.


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

That's one of the tings I like about TSF, we can vent to each other, be reassured we aren't the only ones with "special" clients, and then put on a big smily face for the customers in the morning.


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## nphektor (Feb 13, 2015)

splathead said:


> "Some people are stupid"?
> 
> That's not very nice. If your customers knew as much about printing as you did, they wouldn't need you. We should be educating, not ridiculing.




I agree with OP. Some people ARE stupid. and I can say this, because I work in retail as my 'dayjob' (LOL anyone in retail knows that it ain't even close to a 'dayjob').


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

He isn't stupid, he is playing you. Quote your price for what you see. We don't quote any more unless we see the artwork and have the spec in hand. 

One more thing, If he is supplying the shirts then we add the profit for those as well with no refund for spoilage. He has to supply extra shirts. 

We don't put up with that crap.


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## veetwincowboy (Mar 14, 2015)

I like the way you guys are handling the customers that want to supply t shirts, 25% more and the spoilage disclaimer, i'll have to use that if I take on one of those jobs. The only customer supplied job I do is for a very large motorcycle club, I charge them a minimum of $2 per print and they buy the ink as well. I do a lot of shirts for them.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

veetwincowboy said:


> The only customer supplied job I do is for a very large motorcycle club.


Break it to them gently.


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## veetwincowboy (Mar 14, 2015)

Lol, I know huh?


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't like them to supply shirts since you know there price is no where close to what we pay. I don't tell them how much but I do pay but I tell them I don't cover if they shirts don't print right. 

he's not trying to get over but he heard that silkscreen was cheaper for bulk orders and he want to do bulk orders. he wanted all the design but like 3 or 4 shirts with those designs. 

He emailed me the AI and it was only one image 1 color and that was suppose to be 48 shirts. but when I met him he paid me and gave me the samples of how he wanted it to look.

So I called him later and said hey these are different 2 color designs. I gave him a price for 7 screens and he didnt want to pay he said I thought silkscreening was cheaper. I said after you get the screens and artwork done. thats when shirts are like $4.00 per shirts or more.

they pay $5.99 and higher for there shirts and thats why they want a discount thinking that we should cut the cost. nope you wanna buy the shirt I'm still charging you the same price as if I get it or not. just like a order I did monday the lady said I can get the shirts but need them to be made but this order was 18 shirts that I did in HTV. 

I said you can give them to me but im nor responsible if 3 or 4 shirts don't take the HTV. she said why wouldnt they I said who knows but you order 18 from me and I provide the shirt you get 18. 
if you provide them and only 8 comeout thats what you get. 

We went with my way now she needs 2 more shirts by friday.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> "Some people are stupid"?
> 
> That's not very nice.


I worked in a shop where the boss's kids got fire the labor for being stupid. I'm talking children that have grown old (34). 

I tried to explain to them that on one end of the scale is Einstein, on the other someone severely developmentally challenged, and that most of us were somewhere in the great wide middle. 

So where do you stop feeling great full for not bearing the cross of a vastly lesser understanding of your world, to disdain for a.... well, different degree of basically the same thing.

Have you ever noticed that the receptionists at law firms are usually more attractive than women who basically do the same thing in a lower income setting?

djque, I feel you Bro, and I'm not beating you up over the frustration we all have with unrealistic patrons. In all reality your patron probably wasn't stupid, just behaving in a way that appeared stupid.

In order to vent that frustration I yell and cuss in traffic at idiots (with the windows up).


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## INKJESS (May 28, 2011)

Yup! Maybe not stupid, but an all too often classic case of ignorance. Some people just don't understand. I get the feeling often that people think I'm running these shirts through, basically, a DTG printer. Even though they don't know what that is, lol.

And I don't know how any of you guys are getting away with all the set-up fees? While some ignorant, a lot are well aware that Custom Ink and lot of these other online big boys are not charging any of that.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

ShirlandDesign said:


> In order to vent that frustration I yell and cuss in traffic at idiots (with the windows up).


After you watch that you tube video from LA that had the fight in the middle of the street that started with yelling and cussing in traffic you may want to at least make sure your music drowns out your yelling


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

We are being forced to work our set up fees into our print pricing. Mostly because The DTG industry is constantly advertising "No minimums, No set up fees, EVER!'' Nothing against the DTGers, I honestly wish I had one, for reasons like the topic of this thread. Most people can't tell the dif. between printing techniques, are wrong if they think they know, and think its all done with a magic wand. I think most of us are suggesting full set up fees + for some one asking us to spend most of a day to print 4 shirts for $1 an hour for our time.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

My policy is no customer provided shirts. I hate that, especially when they do it because they think they're cleverly saving money at my expense. As Bob said, that's like taking your own bottle of bourbon to a fancy bar and saying you just need the bartender to mix it with club soda for you.

Other reasons I don't do it are: 1. There is a perceived liability for the cost of the garments if you make any mistakes, and the retail prices they paid are often quite expensive. 2. You have no control over what they buy, what it's made of, how it's dyed, etc. 3. It wastes time because now it takes them two visits to your shop rather than one (with 20 minutes of hee-hawing each time.) and 4. It's a pain in the *ss. They'll bring in a bunch of shirts, all individually wrapped in plastic with tissue paper, hang tags, and stickers all over them (like they can't take shirts out of the bags just as well as I can...)

I accept provided garments from resellers (embroidery companies contracting out work...) and occasionally from a customer who really likes something that I can't buy wholesale or if someone donates shirts to a charity. I only print on them if they are 100% cotton and for non resellers I add my full markup to the price. I take the full price and deduct $1.75 per color T-shirt. They usually freak out because they already paid $7-8 each for their great bargain shirts.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

He probably wouldn't want to pay what most here would charge. I'm in a small town area surrounded by two major cities in NY. I charge $20 per hour for artwork. $25 set up. $5 per screen. $1.50 per color per side and I upcharge tees $1.25 - 2 depending on garment.

Sent from my D6708 using T-Shirt Forums


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## BassSlayer (Mar 16, 2011)

lol got a good laugh out of this! This the reason I don't take small orders. Right now 24 is my lowest quantity with a max of three colors. I would rather spend my time getting quality customers, not the ones who nickel and dime you to death over a hand full of shirts. When I 1st started I tried to work with customers like this but it never and I mean never got larger orders from those types of customers. I will do a lower count for a good customer who has proven he is worth the time.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Ripcord said:


> My policy is no customer provided shirts. I hate that, especially when they do it because they think they're cleverly saving money at my expense. As Bob said, that's like taking your own bottle of bourbon to a fancy bar and saying you just need the bartender to mix it with club soda for you.
> 
> Other reasons I don't do it are: 1. There is a perceived liability for the cost of the garments if you make any mistakes, and the retail prices they paid are often quite expensive. 2. You have no control over what they buy, what it's made of, how it's dyed, etc. 3. It wastes time because now it takes them two visits to your shop rather than one (with 20 minutes of hee-hawing each time.) and 4. It's a pain in the *ss. They'll bring in a bunch of shirts, all individually wrapped in plastic with tissue paper, hang tags, and stickers all over them (like they can't take shirts out of the bags just as well as I can...)
> 
> I accept provided garments from resellers (embroidery companies contracting out work...) and occasionally from a customer who really likes something that I can't buy wholesale or if someone donates shirts to a charity. I only print on them if they are 100% cotton and for non resellers I add my full markup to the price. I take the full price and deduct $1.75 per color T-shirt. They usually freak out because they already paid $7-8 each for their great bargain shirts.



Try being close to downtown Los Angeles where we are and every fool that goes down there and buys 2nd's and brings them into us wants a high quality print on an 80 cent tshirt


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Most of those guys don't even know they bought seconds, cuz many of the L.A. Garment District Biz.s don't tell you and If you ask they pretend they don't speak English. The look on their faces when you tell them why their tags have a scissor cut through them is Kinda funny.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

binki said:


> Try being close to downtown Los Angeles where we are and every fool that goes down there and buys 2nd's and brings them into us wants a high quality print on an 80 cent tshirt


Not being disrespectful Binki but....location, location, location. Your in the land of drama aren't you?


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## nphektor (Feb 13, 2015)

INKJESS said:


> Yup! Maybe not stupid, but an all too often classic case of ignorance. Some people just don't understand. I get the feeling often that people think I'm running these shirts through, basically, a DTG printer. Even though they don't know what that is, lol.
> 
> And I don't know how any of you guys are getting away with all the set-up fees? While some ignorant, a lot are well aware that Custom Ink and lot of these other online big boys are not charging any of that.


even after my setup fees, and using vinyl (most expensive material I know of to mfg tshirts in bulk), I still beat CustomInk prices by at least $2
per shirt. and yes, I do factor in overhead even tho I have no overhead, labor etc.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

nphektor said:


> even after my setup fees, and using vinyl (most expensive material I know of to mfg tshirts in bulk), I still beat CustomInk prices by at least $2
> per shirt. and yes, I do factor in overhead even tho I have no overhead, labor etc.


I figure all my overhead into the price of the shirts per order....no if's and's or but's (or is that butt's?)...I also have a lot of people give me the link to their custom ink design as an example of what they want. As nphektor said, I can usually beat custom inks prices as well but "CustomInk" also uses "Custom Clip Art" LoL....and I provide custom graphics. That's my ace in the hole over them....when a customer see's what they are charging for that crap compared to what I create for them then hands down I get the business at my price and return orders with referrals. Keep in mind I'm a small guy and do mainly local but I'm busier than I like sometimes and I don't give many discounts.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I dont understand why people will not do an order of twelve? The guy across town will not either. Guess what happens? They come to me. It is $100 dollar profit? Do people not like making an easy $100? Send them to me!

I also get custom Ink people, Their prices are beatable. If a customer doesnt care about the artowrk and they dont mind waiting. Go to custom Ink. But my turnaround is a week or less. Most customers are grateful but then you always have "That Customer" I have learned to let go over the past 2 years. Getting busy and a larger customer base really helps with letting go of "Those Customers"

I have no real overhead. No employees. I own the garage. My taxes are $1000.00 a year. My electric is about $40 a month and gas is $80 in the winter. I can not complain.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

DigitalInkArts said:


> I have no real overhead. No employees. I own the garage. My taxes are $1000.00 a year. My electric is about $40 a month and gas is $80 in the winter. I can not complain.


Not bashing but....Yes you do...you paid for your garage (I'm assuming)...you also pay taxes on it every year for the privilege of owning it...you bought your equipment and your consumables (didn't steal them did you?) You have insurance on your house that is connected to your garage no? The gas and electric are a very, very small part of your overhead. You use a vehicle to get or deliver supplies or orders? Your an employee aren't you?...you need to pay yourself, and if not will you come work for me for free? I can go on and on....and yes, I work out of an "attached shop" at my house...I have no garage cause the vehicles wont fit in my "attached shop"....I also have extra electrical run, lighting fixtures, fans, racks/shelving etc etc etc....so yes we do have overhead. Oh and my minimum is 12 and I like it when others don't because I get the business as well and at my price....I'll make well over that 100 dollars on a 12 piece order unless it's one color print, one location on lights and no art work needed .......my overhead won't allow me to work any cheaper! You really don't have any overhead???


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Totally get your point. But the garage was purchased for 4K at auction. All electric I had run was free from a family friend Electrician.
I put in heaters that cost about 2k. Its a concrete shell and good enough for what I am doing in it.

It is not connected to my home it is in town. As time goes by I will fix it up and build an office.My equiptment is all paid for cash from craiglsit.
I have made back the money on the building. I do not like to owe. My taxes are about $1000.yr. and my Ins. is $ 500 yr, ( oh, The building was haunted. I forgot to add ) I had that taken care of. lol

So techically I do have some overhead but It only takes a hand full of jobs to save that. I Make enough money to not have to have a second job going on my third year as a business owner in a physical address. I am gaining customers weekly. I think I will be alright. As I get bigger then I will have to consider spending more. 

I lucked out with the spot I am in. It is not the main rd, But it is only a half block off the main road. I dont know. What I have for overhead, I just dont really consider it such.

I have a double garage and I vinyl vehicles. Most people just pay cash for that. Vinyl is cheap and I just get it off Ebay. The customer pays that. ( that is kinda spending "found" money) I use that to purchase what I need. If you can get in to vinyl and have a space for it. Man does it pay well!


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

DigitalInkArts said:


> Totally get your point. But the garage was purchased for 4K at auction. All electric I had run was free from a family friend Electrician.
> I put in heaters that cost about 2k. Its a concrete shell and good enough for what I am doing in it.
> 
> It is not connected to my home it is in town. As time goes by I will fix it up and build an office.My equiptment is all paid for cash from craiglsit.
> ...


Yes, I get yours as well, I'm looking to retire from my day job in a couple more years and want to move into a small shop in town and grow the business just to see what I can accomplish while having fun doing this. Maybe get into some vinyl for kicks, but I learned on this forum several years ago that I needed to be charging as if I already had a brick and mortar so that I can save up the capitol to make that move in the future and already have my pricing where customers expect it to be without going thru the roof when I have a new landlord to pay rent to. also keeps me in the competition, not leaving money on the table and making a name for myself as the CHEAP printer in town)
Best of luck to you Digital


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## INKJESS (May 28, 2011)

Still one my favorites has to be the ole "I need 100 large and extra large shirts, 2 color front, 3 color back, and oh, hey, I need 2 toddlers as well" 

So here you have a decent order you'd gladly take, but hate like hell to set up for those 2 toddlers lol. Sometimes you get caught right in the shi**er where you can't say no. I'll throw out a crazy rate for those toddlers and they still want them.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

INKJESS said:


> Still one my favorites has to be the ole "I need 100 large and extra large shirts, 2 color front, 3 color back, and oh, hey, I need 2 toddlers as well"
> 
> So here you have a decent order you'd gladly take, but hate like hell to set up for those 2 toddlers lol. Sometimes you get caught right in the shi**er where you can't say no. I'll throw out a crazy rate for those toddlers and they still want them.


Yeah, that's a good one! I'd have just added .25 cents to each shirt and said , your such a great customer the toddler shirts are on me! I Would at least break even and make him think your the greatest printer ever!?


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## INKJESS (May 28, 2011)

lmcawards said:


> Yeah, that's a good one! I'd have just added .25 cents to each shirt and said , your such a great customer the toddler shirts are on me! I Would at least break even and make him think your the greatest printer ever!?


I like that! Great idea


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

INKJESS said:


> Still one my favorites has to be the ole "I need 100 large and extra large shirts, 2 color front, 3 color back, and oh, hey, I need 2 toddlers as well"
> 
> So here you have a decent order you'd gladly take, but hate like hell to set up for those 2 toddlers lol. Sometimes you get caught right in the shi**er where you can't say no. I'll throw out a crazy rate for those toddlers and they still want them.


That's what the heat press is for, Those toddler shirts are only gonna fit for a couple of weeks anyway.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Printor said:


> That's what the heat press is for, Those toddler shirts are only gonna fit for a couple of weeks anyway.


Printor, true but not all of us have vinyl...


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Most of the time (for me) it's a design that needs to be digitally printed, so 2or3 toddle prints will fit on one 8.5 x 11 transfer you can run through a $79 printer and need a tiny heat press. Seems like its always a 6/color when they want to add 2 toddlers.


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## veetwincowboy (Mar 14, 2015)

I have to charge set up and screen fees, although I will sometimes wave 
them if its a big enough order or a good repeat customer. I have shop rent, utilities,
consumables, wear and tear and all that to factor in. And although I might lose a few potential customers, I don't want the reputation as "the cheap printer" either. I want to be known for quality. If i had a DTG that would be a game changer for me, but that's not in the foreseeable future yet. What I run into a lot is the customer that only wants a few shirts, I don't like doing less than minimum so i quote high, screens etc. or I charge them 40-50 bucks to sub a shirt. I lost the parks and rec department work because they want 4 to 6 shirts of each design for 
volleyball teams and such, plus they want me to do the team logo designs and they only want to pay about $5.50 per shirt... They have another printer that will do that for them. I think he is probably doing it with vinyl which wouldn't be that bad, I would do low minimums that way but not at that price.
So I guess I should look into an inexpensive plotter/cutter that will hold up. I do a combination of custom printing and pre prints of my own designs that I sell in my store and wholesale as well. My goal is to eventually be at 70% retail - 30% custom printing and not have to worry about enough work coming through the door. I don't really think customers are stupid either, like Jay said they think we just push a button or whatever and the shirts magically appear.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

INKJESS said:


> Still one my favorites has to be the ole "I need 100 large and extra large shirts, 2 color front, 3 color back, and oh, hey, I need 2 toddlers as well"


This one always blows my mind. It doesn't even cross their minds that an adult size print won't fit on a baby size shirt. "Just add that to the order."

If one of the prints is a left chest, I'll center that on the toddler shirt, or if it's one color I'll do it with vinyl. Most times they don't care if the toddler size isn't exactly like the adults. They just know it will be fun for their kid to get his own shirt like the adults have.


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## TeeBird100 (Apr 13, 2015)

lmcawards said:


> Printor, true but not all of us have vinyl...


I think a having a hundred dollar ink jet printer sitting on the side and some transfer paper would be a worthy investment.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

TeeBird100 said:


> I think a having a hundred dollar ink jet printer sitting on the side and some transfer paper would be a worthy investment.


Yep, and also a cheap cutter can be purchased for less than $200. Then the formerly annoying "Can I order just one?" inquiries turn into an easy way to make extra money.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Ripcord said:


> Yep, and also a cheap cutter can be purchased for less than $200. Then the formerly annoying "Can I order just one?" inquiries turn into an easy way to make extra money.


OK, seriously, you peaked my interest....this is what I like about this forum. Speak to me as if I know nothing of this (which I don't) so what cutter would you suggest at that price range and what vinyl would you suggest for starting out? Also can that vinyl work for car and window decals? 
Looks like I'm still on topic, me being the stupid one this time ) All kidding aside think I will start browsing the vinyl section of the forum and do some further DD. Didn't mean to go off topic guys and gals!


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## Mtnview (Nov 5, 2009)

Printor said:


> That's one of the tings I like about TSF, we can vent to each other...


Something to keep in my when venting, printers aren't the only ones on this forum. There are end users that have joined TSF to get answers. I should think when they see posts such as was started by the OP the view of us as printers probably isn't what it used to be. 

Not only should we as professionals take care of how we talk about customers on this or any forum but it would be a good idea to think about what industry information is so freely given out on this forum.

It's ok to vent but personally I would recommend staying away from the name calling.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> but it would be a good idea to think about what industry information so freely given out on this forum.


IMHO trying to guard insider information is futile. My mechanic told me that the part my truck needed was $450.00 his cost, plus an hour of installation. Diagnosed the problem online, found the part at RockAuto for $215.00 and installed it in 5 minutes. 

Humanity has a collective consciousness now and that micro scalpel cuts both ways.

I'm old enough to have seen graphics simplify to the point that the bottom end is gone. Having done it long hand, knifes and glue, all of the talent a restaurant menu for example took to execute professionally can now be done by the dishwasher.

Whole new set of rules to working any of a number of ancient professions, people as an animal are constant.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

lmcawards said:


> OK, seriously, you peaked my interest....this is what I like about this forum. Speak to me as if I know nothing of this (which I don't) so what cutter would you suggest at that price range and what vinyl would you suggest for starting out? Also can that vinyl work for car and window decals?


I bought a US cutter from Amazon, the smallest one, which is fine for T-shirts. I use Chemica Hotmark for the vinyl. Window decals use a different vinyl which is self adhesive, but you use the same cutter to cut it. Check out signwarehouse.com for all the vinyls and supplies you will need.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

ShirlandDesign said:


> IMHO trying to guard insider information is futile.


I agree with this. Those days are over with, and I think that's a good thing. If I help out somebody that might be considered my "competition," that doesn't hurt my business. I've learned a whole lot on this forum and on several others, all from people who could have just as well guarded their "industry secrets." The free exchange of information which began around the turn of the century has served to make good businesses better and send mediocre businesses into the dust pile of history.

(edit) Although I don't think that's what John was talking about in his post. He is concerned that potential customers might read these and the industry as a whole could be cast in a bad light.


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

A $300 cutter can easily bring in 50 to 100K before you burn it out if you take care of it, between $20 for 1 T with a couple words on it, or $400 for a few Big words on a couple a Business windows. Plus There is always a space in my vinyl where I can sneak a few $5 stickers for my store which usually covers the $ of customers job. makes it 100% profit And as far as venting in front of non printers go, I agree we should watch the name calling, but I bet many people are learning valuable tips as to what not to ask their printer, and why, making them look more professional as well


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Sure, both most probably. But look at it this way, the Chinese, radical Muslims, Mexican beer companies have all tried to sell to America and just don't speak our language. 

Similarly we all know a niche intimately enough to basically be outside of competing on a commodity bases.

It's all about being "Blind Lemon Hound Dog" micro brew, not the next Budwiser.


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## TeeBird100 (Apr 13, 2015)

ShirlandDesign said:


> I'm old enough to have seen graphics simplify to the point that the bottom end is gone. Having done it long hand, knifes and glue, all of the talent a restaurant menu for example took to execute professionally can now be done by the dishwasher.
> 
> Whole new set of rules to working any of a number of ancient professions, people as an animal are constant.


This is so true. I remember laying out newspapers with a scalpel, designing menu's cutting and pasting, and then one day I discovered Corel Draw. 

I run a marketing company and can create videos that would have taken 50,000 dollars in equipment with my phone and a 100 piece of software on a mid range computer. 

It is why I got into the shirt business believe it or not. Our world is so, so digital now. Everything is online. Everything is able to be done by the masses. There is little permanence for the generation coming up. 

Even the ability to communicate verbally for those under 25 has been 
diminished. 

But for some reason the t-shirt is how they tell their story, especially for the guys. It has always been so, but with so much importance. For the pretty girl to look up from her phone for 3 seconds that shirt is what is going to have a statement from who I am. A gamer, a jock, a thinker, a hipster, an emo, or a dude. 

And wear a Custom Comfort or Gildan 2000 shirt after 8 pm if you are going out and you have failed. Too casual. It has to be a fitted shirt. That has a subtle message. In a muted color. 

The t-shirt is the fashion tool of the under 25 world. Do it right, become cool, and you can print money. 

A great well fitted shirt for the evening, a comfortable shirt for the day that tells a story. That is the business we are in. Sure the leagues and schools will buy the generics at the best prices, but soon even they will want something a little more stylish. Best be ready for it. 

Going back to the root of the thread, we talked about how the client may be stupid, but I think it may be our fault, not theirs...

The customer may not know how to express what he or she wants, but they are never stupid. They just don't have the vocabulary. It is our job to interpret it no matter how frustrating. 

- That is why we add value. 
- That is why we can avoid being the low cost provider. 
- That is how we can stop the conversation being price and focused on service.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

TeeBird100 said:


> I run a marketing company and can create videos that would have taken 50,000 dollars in equipment with my phone and a 100 piece of software on a mid range computer.


Remember paying $200 and waiting three days for a color separation? Now you can do it in ten minutes with a hundred dollar scanner and Corel Draw. (Heck, if the customer has the photo in an electronic format you don't even need the scanner.)


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> but I think it may be our fault, not theirs...


You truly see  Thank you


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

I got this one about an our ago. Phone call, lady bought 20 one of a kind rinestone transfers on line. has 20 mixed and matched shirts. says she wants to use my equipment and tell her how to do it, FOR FREE!. I told her I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure my insurance policy does not cover that sort of thing. I said I will do it for her for a very reasonable price, and Gave her the usual info about each product being at test, no guarantees. She got very upset that I would not stop production to teach her to use my equipment for free. She said she was gonna take her business elsewhere. "Her Business" she said...... wwwwwwhhaaaaat?


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## BrianB (Feb 25, 2009)

I won't accept shirts brought to me unless it's a vinyl heat press job, but even then I'm firm on the possibility that it's not going to work as well as what I've used. 

When people want pricing I always give them the price for what they are asking plus pricing for something that might have an underbase. They may ask for pricing on white shirts but when they order suddenly it's on navy blue. I'm now expecting customers to change something on me. I beat them to the punch. 

Generally people have no idea how these things work. I had a guy bring me a black shirt he liked that he wanted his design to resemble color wise. He insisted it was one color but I could clearly see white and gray ink. He says, "I've seen where people just put it in there and make gray". I have no idea what 'put it in there' means. He probably means changing the opacity of the white but you are dealing with half tones and this was solid ink. I knew they guy that had that particular shirt made and he verified it was a two color job, white and gray that he had printed from a big online company.

Teachers and churches are the worst at changing something that you previously priced. It's because they show the designs to too many people and there are suddenly 19 different opinions.


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## lvprinting (Sep 23, 2014)

veetwincowboy said:


> I like the way you guys are handling the customers that want to supply t shirts, 25% more and the spoilage disclaimer, i'll have to use that if I take on one of those jobs. The only customer supplied job I do is for a very large motorcycle club, I charge them a minimum of $2 per print and they buy the ink as well. I do a lot of shirts for them.


I have that built into my pricing guide as well where you can specify a percentage markup if the customer brings their own shirts. You have to make some money on the shirt (pricing, ordering, receiving, handling, etc) unless you already factor that into your ink costs.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

lmcawards said:


> Not being disrespectful Binki but....location, location, location. Your in the land of drama aren't you?


No $H!T. yes we are. Nothing but temper tantrums in our front office.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

So got up this morning 0400 and this was on a text message from last night at 8:22pm

"Sir, I have a last minute order. My husband needs three unit shirts tomorrow for a run. How much would it cost to make them by tomorrow morning by 0600? We can pay a rush fee as well."

Even if I knew what shirt she was talking about I don't stock them. They are custom printed as ordered and usually have 4 print locations and multiple color designs.....AAAAAHHHHhhhhhhg!!!

I need a NEW Magic Wand!!!!


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## TeeBird100 (Apr 13, 2015)

lmcawards said:


> So got up this morning 0400 and this was on a text message from last night at 8:22pm
> 
> "Sir, I have a last minute order. My husband needs three unit shirts tomorrow for a run. How much would it cost to make them by tomorrow morning by 0600? We can pay a rush fee as well."
> 
> ...


Ha! I am up early as well to fix a client crisis as well. The joys of running a small business. Fortunately, I can get the win, but so often we have to smile and say "so sorry..."


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

I shipped an order out of state a full four weeks ago to meet the customer requested deadline. On Thursday I got a frantic phone call from her saying that her event was on Saturday and she should have checked but she didn't and she's short three shirts. Is there ANY WAY I can overnight three?

This was an order of 35 and I printed and shipped them myself. Aint no way I was short three shirts, but even if I was, why did she need them four weeks ago and why, oh pray, with all that extra time did we get to the point of an overnight shipment being necessary? She half-heartedly suggested she could pay the shipping but I could tell she wanted me to. I just swallowed hard and did it.

When the shirts are for kids it's hard to say "Sorry, I can't help you," because the thought of one or two kids at an event not getting their shirts is almost heartbreaking. It's not their fault that the adults were apathetic.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> the thought of one or two kids at an event not getting their shirts is almost heartbreaking


I know, doing a series of thirty seven name drops under a schools logo on POM backpacks is kind of a pain, but i can't help but think about all of the pride and love and hope pinned on those kids. I wonder sometimes what the parents are thinking when they choose the names... but still. In all fairness though I have yet to run into a "Banjo Apple" but then again we are way out in the bojacks, maybe those kinds of names will make it out here by the mid twentys. lol


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## lrsbranding (Aug 6, 2011)

I like where customers are inconvenienced by their own shirt order and expect you to accommodate. A few weeks ago we did a summer camp order. Simple one color front. The customer calls and wants to add 1 shirt. We didn't have an extra in stock that matched and I didn't want that 1 kid to be different so my wife drove 12 miles to Hobby Lobby to get the extra Gildan. We print and deliver. Then she calls that Friday and wants 2 more for Monday. I explain that I don't have any in stock and I have no plans on driving to Hobby Lobby again. She asked if she could get the shirts and bring them to me on Saturday at 10:00 am. Well...I suppose...it is Saturday and I have things to do but if you'll be here at 10 I'll help. Just before 10 I start the dryer, 10:45 I turn the heat off, 11:00 her husband shows up. He hands me the shirts and says call when they are done. I said wait a few minutes and I'll print them now. He looks at his watch, spins around and says "I don't know. Let me call my wife" I told him it'll just take a sec. Let the heater warm up. He's all frantic. "I'll just come back" I'm thinking- Dude, my shop is 15 miles from your house. I'll have these done by the time you get your car started. Not my fault the dryer isn't hot. I thought the guy was going into a panic attack. Within 5 minutes of his arrival they were printed and just waiting for the heater. Dude settle down. Within 10 minutes he was out the door. Never heard thanks I appreciate it or nothing. Some people ruin it for everyone.


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## BrianB (Feb 25, 2009)

When a couple shirts go missing, and you know your count was correct, it's because people that didn't order beforehand, or weren't in the original count somehow got a shirt before they handed them out.


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

BrianB said:


> When a couple shirts go missing, and you know your count was correct, it's because people that didn't order beforehand, or weren't in the original count somehow got a shirt before they handed them out.


Just because of this I'm going to add a part of the invoice that they receive with their order that shows that the shirts were counted before they were packed with a signature/initial.


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## BrianB (Feb 25, 2009)

Greatzky said:


> Just because of this I'm going to add a part of the invoice that they receive with their order that shows that the shirts were counted before they were packed with a signature/initial.


It got so bad that a friend of mine with a shop had to start making customers do a count when they picked up and have them sign off before leaving with them.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

BrianB said:


> When a couple shirts go missing, and you know your count was correct, it's because people that didn't order beforehand, or weren't in the original count somehow got a shirt before they handed them out.


What do you want to bet they left the payment for the shirts when they "lifted" them.....??


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

BrianB said:


> It got so bad that a friend of mine with a shop had to start making customers do a count when they picked up and have them sign off before leaving with them.


 
I do this on every order picked up or delivered...that's how bad it gets sometimes and I get tired of second guessing myself instead of accusing the customer. Doing the count together resolves any issue immediately!


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Ok, so I got a call on a shirt order that was short (I counted them going in the box and know better), so I ask how many short? And I'm not making this up, but she said "I just know that many shirts wouldn't fit in a box that size". 

Got a call from a sales rep asking if a box of Polos he needed sewn were here in the shop, yes they are, why in the hell didn't you let me know I had delivered them too you!!?


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Ok, so I got a call on a shirt order that was short (I counted them going in the box and know better), so I ask how many short? And I'm not making this up, but she said "I just know that many shirts wouldn't fit in a box that size".
> 
> Got a call from a sales rep asking if a box of Polos he needed sewn were here in the shop, yes they are, why in the hell didn't you let me know I had delivered them too you!!?


Geeez, I'm feeling better already! so your sales rep delivered the shirts to your shop and then you were supposed to inform him that he delivered them? OMG!!! I want some of what he's drinking ) You can't make this stuff up!


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

He was high on the Lord.


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## INKJESS (May 28, 2011)

Printor said:


> I got this one about an our ago. Phone call, lady bought 20 one of a kind rinestone transfers on line. has 20 mixed and matched shirts. says she wants to use my equipment and tell her how to do it, FOR FREE!. I told her I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure my insurance policy does not cover that sort of thing. I said I will do it for her for a very reasonable price, and Gave her the usual info about each product being at test, no guarantees. She got very upset that I would not stop production to teach her to use my equipment for free. She said she was gonna take her business elsewhere. "Her Business" she said...... wwwwwwhhaaaaat?


I feel better already knowing at least I'm not the only one dealing with complete craziness! Haha That's insane!!


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## INKJESS (May 28, 2011)

Printor said:


> I got this one about an our ago. Phone call, lady bought 20 one of a kind rinestone transfers on line. has 20 mixed and matched shirts. says she wants to use my equipment and tell her how to do it, FOR FREE!. I told her I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure my insurance policy does not cover that sort of thing. I said I will do it for her for a very reasonable price, and Gave her the usual info about each product being at test, no guarantees. She got very upset that I would not stop production to teach her to use my equipment for free. She said she was gonna take her business elsewhere. "Her Business" she said...... wwwwwwhhaaaaat?


One more thing, and this is the kicker, had you hooked her up she still, probably, would have taken any screen printing need she had, after the fact, to one of your competitors and not given you any kind of deal had you ever walked in to her place of biz. Been there.


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

And had I done it for free like she wanted, she probably would have refused the job and demanded a refund.


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## BrianB (Feb 25, 2009)

How about pricing a customer for 200 shirts and then they want to order 17.


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

I get people that act concerned a bout the price dif. between 3 and 4 thousand pcs. and then want less than my minimum, then act all sad........


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

Greatzky said:


> Just because of this I'm going to add a part of the invoice that they receive with their order that shows that the shirts were counted before they were packed with a signature/initial.


I'm thinking of doing something like that too...although in 12 years of doing this I have to say this is the first time someone has said their order was short (actually it's happened a couple of times but in the past they've somehow managed to find the missing shirts after telling me several times that they've looked "everywhere.") 

But it is a good idea to suggest that customers look through the shirts, compare the counts to what they ordered, and check for possible errors, either by the printer or by themselves as soon as they are delivered. That way if something needs to be remedied they can let you know right away.

Most times when they realize they screwed up the order and need some more they're honest about it...but what annoys me is when they give you a deadline several weeks before their scheduled event. I can only think that the reason they do this is so that they can make sure that everything is correct well ahead of time. So then why the hell do I get the panic phone calls two days before the event after they finally looked at the shirts that I delivered weeks ago?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I recently had a guy ask abou 50-100 shirts. 4-5 color 1 sided. Worked up mock up with their artwork so only a few min. Email back. Get a response looks great and I wasn't loosing all the detail the other shop was due to them converting to all spot colors. Next day guy emails he will take 2 shirts. I gave him tier pricing starting at 48 shirts and under tier it states that first tier is minimum order.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

BrianB said:


> How about pricing a customer for 200 shirts and then they want to order 17.


I gave a guy a price on 500 shirts once (black with an underbase and 4C process) and then awhile later he said he had to watch his budget so he might do an initial order of 100. (This was one of those pie in the sky "I have this great idea and I'll sell thousands of these at $20 each" ideas.) A few weeks later I get an email from him with the title in all caps "T-SHIRT ORDER!" and in the email he said he wanted to place an order for one shirt, so he could see what it would look like and take a photo of it to put on his website. I should have just blown him off at that point, but I was still new in the business so I found someone to do it DTG, collected $25 from him and ordered the shirt. Then he sent me an email a few days later saying how frustrating this was because he didn't know how long he was supposed to wait. At that point I refunded his credit card and told him to have fun.


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

about this time last year, Had a guy come in and say he was very interested in learning to print. I told him "I'm sorry but the shopspace is so tight right now I don't even have space for an apprentice to work on another project right now." He said " Oh! I don't want to DO, anything, I just want you to teach me how.'' He got so angry that I wouldn't hire him, I thought I was gonna have to give him colyflower ear to get him out of the shop. I told him, before he walks into the next shop, he should know any biz. is gonna expect him to work for his knowledge, and not to say that on his next try. The guy had a temper tantrum on me before he got to the interview stage. bet he's still lookin for a job


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## BrianB (Feb 25, 2009)

Printor said:


> about this time last year, Had a guy come in and say he was very interested in learning to print. I told him "I'm sorry but the shopspace is so tight right now I don't even have space for an apprentice to work on another project right now." He said " Oh! I don't want to DO, anything, I just want you to teach me how.'' He got so angry that I wouldn't hire him, I thought I was gonna have to give him colyflower ear to get him out of the shop. I told him, before he walks into the next shop, he should know any biz. is gonna expect him to work for his knowledge, and not to say that on his next try. The guy had a temper tantrum on me before he got to the interview stage. bet he's still lookin for a job



That or he's in county jail for animal cruelty.


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## sister1 (Jun 16, 2008)

BrianB said:


> How about pricing a customer for 200 shirts and then they want to order 17.


I got a few too many of those, so I no longer quote based on the quantity originally mentioned. I always give a full quote starting at one piece, showing price break quantities, plus additional for plus sizes, plus screen charges. No more problems with "but you quoted $8.00 and now it's $10.00!"


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