# Photo on Grave stone



## johnled57 (Oct 21, 2011)

Have an older lady who is adamant about having her son's photo put on his grace stone. I know sublimation will fade pretty quick. Is there another option?

Thanks!


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## bratdawg (Jul 17, 2012)

Your best bet will be a kiln fired tile. 

Steve


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

johnled57 said:


> Have an older lady who is adamant about having her son's photo put on his grace stone. I know sublimation will fade pretty quick. Is there another option?
> 
> Thanks!


Per Steves suggestion ... see this post. Nothing else works in sunlight. Equipment is expensive.

DSSI

Digital Ceramic Technologies - The leading Digital Ceramic Printer system

has opportunity for outsourcing this.


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

I would say a laser engraved method would be the best bet.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ZO6 KLR said:


> I would say a laser engraved method would be the best bet.


I have seen some good results there too, you end up with a "likeness" engraving of course.

Ceramic toner gets the color from minerals ... Rocks keep their color a very long time. Anyway, that's the concept with DCT.

Celebrating Lives Well Lived | Awards & Engraving

These offer a lifetime gaurantee from fading.

Porcelain Memorial Plaques, Photographic Memorial Plaques, & Memorial Products. Eternally Remembered 

Nothing else photographic and full color can really last outdoors.

These can also be created by screen printing but you only have screen printing resolution for the images.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Print it on vinyl wrap with Just like a car wrap.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

skdave said:


> Print it on vinyl wrap with Just like a car wrap.


Will it last hundreds of years?


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

Anything pigment or dye based will definitely fade, no matter if it's laminated, cleared or however you decide you want to protect it. You have two options: laser engraved or sandblasted/etched. You can achieve different values by depth. Keep in mind that this will be monochromatic and not color. Again, anything of color will fade.


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

skdave said:


> Print it on vinyl wrap with Just like a car wrap.


Haha. I can see this being a hit for the budget-oriented. "Hey, color won't last long but it's cheap!"


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ZO6 KLR said:


> Anything pigment or dye based will definitely fade, no matter if it's laminated, cleared or however you decide you want to protect it. You have two options: laser engraved or sandblasted/etched. You can achieve different values by depth. Keep in mind that this will be monochromatic and not color. Again, anything of color will fade.


Suggest you research better, these are not pigments nor dyes. _This is nothing like dye sub._

Next time you are at a cemetery look around, this is the only color technology used for memorials.

I have several tiles made by one of the companies in the link above.

Kept one in my backyard garden (in Phoenix) over a year zero fade.

Mid Atlantic Monument Builders

Ceramic Printing Equipment | Ceramic Printers | Custom Tiles, Murals, Tile Murals | Enduring Images 

Nearly everyone selling these has a lifetime warranty against fading.

The decal laminate is to give it durabilty, has nothing to do with UV protection. The minerals in the toner provide that.

This stuff is no scam.


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## Olperez1 (Feb 24, 2013)

skdave said:


> Print it on vinyl wrap with Just like a car wrap.


 
Car Wrap vinyl? She will be haunted by her son until she is laying next to him.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

ZO6 KLR said:


> Anything pigment or dye based will definitely fade, no matter if it's laminated, cleared or however you decide you want to protect it. You have two options: laser engraved or sandblasted/etched. You can achieve different values by depth. Keep in mind that this will be monochromatic and not color. Again, anything of color will fade.


 
Roland ink is good for 3 years on the car wraps we print. Car washes, weather, road issues are harder to deal with than sitting on a grave marker.
Most would want to replace a $10.00 print every 3 or 4 years. So what the big deal?


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## Olperez1 (Feb 24, 2013)

Really, not to insult you Dave, but i wouldn't want my grave to be a cheap vinyl wrap to honor me. It might not be cheap material but it looks cheap and will be the only one at the cemetery wrapped. Sorry but I wouldn't do it.

Also, you would need to check with the cemetery as many of them have limitations on what kind of stone or even what kind of engraving/plaque can be used. So don't do anything until you check with their rules/limitations.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

skdave said:


> Roland ink is good for 3 years on the car wraps we print. Car washes, weather, road issues are harder to deal with than sitting on a grave marker.
> Most would want to replace a $10.00 print every 3 or 4 years. So what the big deal?


You seriously would do a cheap vinyl wrap on one of your children's headstone?


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

No problem, I wouldn't do either. But there is tons of crap that happens everyday I wouldn't do but that doesn't mean we can't toss it out to discuss.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

It is fun to watch all the experts on life and printing get their panties in a wad over this one.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

skdave said:


> It is fun to watch all the experts on life and printing get their panties in a wad over this one.


Personally I do not believe it takes an expert on life or printing to know how inappropriate wrapping a child's headstone in cheap vinyl would be to most - just common sense.


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## ZO6 KLR (Jan 8, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> Suggest you research better, these are not pigments nor dyes. _This is nothing like dye sub._



I actually learned something today! Thanks MG!

The Enduring Images video has some interesting subject matter.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Riderz Ready said:


> Personally I do not believe it takes an expert on life or printing to know how inappropriate wrapping a child's headstone in cheap vinyl would be to most - just common sense.


This started out with a dye sub picture mounted on a stone. Then the fade issue was pointed out. I simply said replace the dye sub picture with a vinyl picture so the fade issue would be solve. 
Now you are completely wrapping a stone and implying I said that.. Back to square one.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

skdave said:


> This started out with a dye sub picture mounted on a stone. Then the fade issue was pointed out. I simply said replace the dye sub picture with a vinyl picture so the fade issue would be solve.
> Now you are completely wrapping a stone and implying I said that.. Back to square one.


Please - I used the term "wrapping" generically. You are the one who invited side bar with your off the cuff life/print expert crack. Who is the one getting their panties in wad now?


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## johnled57 (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I will check out the links.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ZO6 KLR said:


> I actually learned something today! Thanks MG!
> 
> The Enduring Images video has some interesting subject matter.


Some time back I went to visit one of the vendors for these who happened to be local to me. For a tabloid laser system, the training, the kiln, supplies runs about $10K, a copier based system is around $20K.

Most starting out will buy the decals from someone with a system, then fire the tiles themselves. Small kilns are affordable. I seem to recall just a simple tile for a headstone was around a hundred bucks or so retail, so the markup is huge.

The tiles can be regular Home Depot tiles, or you can use glass if it can take the kiln temp.

Figure these are for outdoor use or for inside where the tiles need to be durable like a kitchen backsplash behind a stove, or inside a shower or tub area.

The colors don't pop as well as sublimation does, but the images are still good.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Some time back I went to visit one of the vendors for these who happened to be local to me. For a tabloid laser system, the training, the kiln, supplies runs about $10K, a copier based system is around $20K.
> 
> Most starting out will buy the decals from someone with a system, then fire the tiles themselves. Small kilns are affordable. I seem to recall just a simple tile for a headstone was around a hundred bucks or so retail, so the markup is huge.
> 
> ...


What is largest standard size ceramic one can have done? If you were going to do something on the line of custom ceramic house numbers or the likes this is how they do it?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> What is largest standard size ceramic one can have done? If you were going to do something on the line of custom ceramic house numbers or the likes this is how they do it?


I haven't seen everything out there, but most are Ricohs and up to 12 x 18. The screen printed decals can be however big you can make your screen.

I would think the house numbers to be effective would have to be a single tile then maybe add a name ...

The Jones
1209

maybe with a nice background etc.

I have seen "stock" number ceramic tiles at places like Home Depot where you mix and match numbers to come up with your address and those slide into a small holder. So just having the house number alone may be hard to market, but just guessing.

There are some street signs in this video. These same people had a big order laid out on the floor when I visited of 12 x 12 floor tiles.

http://ceramicdecalprinters.com/gallery.html


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Lost in this discussion is that most cemeteries have minimum requirements for head stones, caskets, and other burial items. They have a list of materials they do and do not accept. You can laser engrave, for example (I think that would be their first choice), but the selection of stone can not be arbitrary. 

This is not a business I'm in, but I've had to deal with funeral homes and cemeteries in the recent past, and it's amazing all the requirements they have.

So, the best thing would be to ask first, then make later.


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## rmanwiller (Jul 10, 2013)

I can recommend a good monument company to make a kiln fired memorial portrait for you if you tell me where you are located. There are many good monument builders who have the equipment to make one for you in just a few days. They are printed with ceramic pigments and will never fade. Very high quality and durable for many centuries outdoors. Thanks, Ron


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## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

I've gotta jump in on this thread - for a couple of reasons.

1. Before you do anything - check with the cemetery. If it's like the ones I've dealt with, they probably won't let her install something herself, and instead will charge for the "privilege". They may not even allow outside production to be affixed to the headstone - because that way they won't make any money.
(as an example - to move my dads ashes out of the vault they were in and into the casket with my mom - they wouldn't let me do it - they charged me $400 to undo ONE BOLT and carry the urn about 100 feet.)

2. Whatever you do - find the most lasting, best quality source for her. Whether you (or others on this forum) take this matter seriously, for her it is one of the most important things she's ever done. AFter all - how many parents expect to outlive their children?


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## rmanwiller (Jul 10, 2013)

Good warnings both. I assume she is working with a monument shop already but maybe not. Anything that happens in a cemetery needs to be handled through the cemetery or a company, like a monument builder, that routinely does.

As for quality, I've been in this business for 10 years and have hundreds of monument shop customers. I am very sensitive to the emotional trauma associated with the death of a loved one. We see it everyday.

If she contacts me I will send her to a company she can trust to do good work for her. 

I am new to this forum. Can I post my phone number? Might be the easiest way to do this. Ron


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## priest (Sep 29, 2011)

I have a friend who buried his dad recently. He thought he was doing the honorable thing by ordering an engraved marble plaque. He got a serious scolding by the people in charge of the cemetery, and his plaque was refused.

He is now fighting for them to accept it several months after the burial.


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## johnled57 (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks everyone for information, I knew none of this. Ron, I'm in Indiana if you have any contact here to do the kiln deal.


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