# Epson C88 or WF 30 for sublimation?



## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

Since I want to start small and not put out a lot of money right away I figure I will either get an Epson C88 or WF 30 printer. I also only plan to sublimate small items - mugs to start with and maybe later magnets, coasters, etc.

What are the differences between these two printers? I'm having a hard time finding detailed information about them, at least for dye sub use. Apparently the WF 30 is newer, but I see they are both still being sold on Epson's site. 

From what I've been able to find out, the 88 has larger size ink cartidges, which seems good, maybe they the ink costs less per ml though. But then when I look at the cartridges it isn't that clear how to tell what size they are to really be able to price them.

And for either of them do you have to buy the colored ones all together or do they sell them separately?

Also, I've read about clogging problems with Epsons. Do both of these printers have that problem? Most of the time I should be able to use it frequently enough. But if we go out of town for a week or two I wouldn't know who I could have come over and print something on it for me.

And every place seems to be pushing the bulk systems. I'm sure they are good, but at this point I'm not ready for that. And its not clear to me - are the bulk ones more likely to clog or less?

In general, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using one over the other? Any information about good or bad experiences with either of them, tips, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks for you patience with such newbie questions!
Trisha


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I recommend the Ricoh gx e3300n with the sublijet inks.
It is far superior in every way compared to the c88 and wf30.

For less than $500, you can get a great printer and inks.

Here is article published in the Sublimation Almanac
last year about the other two Ricoh printers.

[media]http://www.conde.com/wdg/Road-To-Sublimation-Success-SA-2009.pdf[/media]


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

David - you guys are really pushing those Ricohs. I was asking about two specific Epsons. I realize the Ricohs are probably better and I've read elsewhere about how Epson is getting harder to work with etc. 

But I need a low cost entry level printer. Ricoh does not make those.

I know a guy who is a customer of yours who started out with a low priced epson then after things were going well for him he moved up to a Ricoh. I'd like to try going down that same path and save a little money starting out and testing how well this will all work out for me.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I think if you add up the dollars, you will not beat the e3300. 

Buying an epson with carts is just a mistake. 

Those carts are just too small to offer any value and if you have any hiccups, that will drain the carts. So you really need bulk ink with an epson and that puts you above the cost of the e3300 with ink.


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

we use a c-88 with refillable carts and love it, easy to refill carts and alot less then a ciss system. good way to get started, we do tiles and mugs, so i don't need the bigger format. you should be able to find refurbished c-88 online or at epson.com good luck.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I also love the c88 but she would have to buy bulk inks pushing her cost above the e3300n.


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

tom - how does that work with the refillable carts? I've never had any kind of ink refilled before so the whole process is new to me.


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

David - I'm having a hard time finding the e3300 on your site.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Here it is along with my installation video.

Sublimatable Products, Production Systems, Sublimation Inks, Heat Press Machines - Order Online! - DyeTrans.com

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRKm44wso6w[/media]


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

ok, you've a point there about the overall cost. By the time I buy the sub ink/dye for a low price epson I'm already at a little over $400 dollars. 

But I'm a bit confused is the e3300 a Ricoh printer, Aficio or Conde - on the picture of the printer I can clearly see Conde written on it. 

And with the set of ink that comes with it about how many full bleed mugs could one make? And about how much does that come to per mug?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Here goes:

About half of the first set of carts is used to fill the lines in the printer. This is a one time thing.

This leaves about half for printing. So we start with 400% (4 x 100%), after charging we are left with about 200%.

For a full coverage letter size page, we use about 1% ink. That means it cost about $.60 (plus paper) for a full bleed letter size print. A mug is say about 3 of these full coverage pages. Putting the cost of a mug at $.20 (plus paper). By the way our mug paper is excellent for saving time and money.

So after charging you have 200% which is about 200 pages if you used ink evenly (which you don't).
So you could easily get 400 plus mugs.


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

That 'Entry Level System' for $ 471.00 - does that come with an extra set of ink? Otherwise adding up the cost of the printer and the 4 inks separately adds up to less than 471.

Is the bypass tray needed to use the special mug paper? And am I right in guessing that that paper wouldn't work for the latte mugs?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

For that price you get a set of inks. My previous post is related to the first set of inks. 

You can use the built in tray for all sizes of paper including the mug paper.

The bypass tray just gives you a second paper source so you can have two sizes of paper available.

Yes you can use the mug papers for the Latte mug but you will have to trim.

We have two mug papers: mug11 and mug15. These are presized for our mugs.


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

So if I understand right, with that 'Entry Level System' for $ 471.00 there would be a set of inks that come with the printer and then another set.  So altogether that would amount to enough ink to make around 1200 mugs?   Since half the ink doesn't get lost when you use the 2nd set of inks?<br>


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

For the $471, you get the printer, one set of Sublijet R inks and a pack of Texprint R paper.


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## TexSub (Aug 27, 2007)

Trisha, The ink does not get lost. What David is saying is that it takes up to half the cart to fill the ink lines. That ink is not wasted. It is used to prime the ink lines. In other words, you are able to use ALL the ink you paid for. When you buy more carts, no ink is used to prime the lines because the lines already have ink in them.


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

david, stop selling your system, the girl wants to know how to get into a low cost starter system.


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## Trisha (Sep 2, 2005)

David - please help me with the math here. My brain hasn't been working so well lately. Too many decisions to make. According to your site the printer itself is $199 (Product Detail for 405679 - DyeTrans.com)

The inks are each $60 - for 4 that's $240
That paper is around $17

So that comes to $456. So it would cost less to buy them each separately than to buy the 'Entry Level System' for $471?

Bobby - you're right, I wasn't thinking. I knew in the back of my head that the ink that fills the lines doesn't really get lost.


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## deenastee (Mar 31, 2006)

Trisha, Im new to sublimating also and went thru the same dilema as you. I finally went with a c88 with refillable carts, and i gotta tell you that i couldnt be happier!!!


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

see that's what i said, love all my big vendors, but lets keep it real here on the forum, I want to help all the newbies and myself.


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## MBLSM (Feb 21, 2010)

Trisha - We had the exact same question to answer and went with the WF30 as we were ableto get them for under $70. We purchased two and use one with ArmurInk and a bulk system for transfer work (about $140 in inks and $200 for the bulk system). On the other system we are using SublijetIQ inks and are able to get 2packs for about $300 for a full CMYK set. Hope this helps


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## deenastee (Mar 31, 2006)

Trisha, I would stay away from any ciss. Ive had them on all my printers (c88,1280 and 4000) and they never worked right. Just a big waste of money.


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

For entry level/low cost - Go with the C88 with refillable carts & you can do 90% of all sublimation products.


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## cryman (Mar 19, 2007)

can anyone give info on the best way to do your refillable carts on the epson d88 or c88 i mean the proper way and the only right way doing refill carts on the epson d88
any help would be awesome thanks folks


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## Y2KSTYLEZ (Mar 19, 2010)

Please, how can I get a refillable carts? I want to do some sublimation printing. My Epson R265 seems not getting me no where. And if I did get the refilable carts, how do I fix it to my Printer? Please advise .


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## 34Ford (Mar 19, 2010)

You might consider the WorkForce 40. It has Wifi and ethernet built it.

You can always find refillable carts on Ebay.
I use them in my Epson R1900.


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## taricp35 (Dec 10, 2008)

I have the c88+ I got off craigslist for $20. I got refill carts from inkjetcarts.us. I got the paper from the paper ranch, I got sublimation ink from best blanks. Once the carts are filled and printing I refill them while they are still in the printer. This was the best set up for me when I started because I was doing small volumes. My volume has increased tremendously, and this is still the best set up for me.


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## nikki g (Sep 15, 2009)

Hi, I am new to the sublimation world myself. I researched and researched and in the end I purchased the Epson work force 30 with Sublijet carts.( which is expensive ink) I had a number of problems with clogged nozzles...they got so bad that Epson had to replace the printer. My new Work Force works like a champ. If your just looking to get your feet wet in the sublimation world go cheap...trust me, the printer will be the cheapest piece of equipment that you will purchase. The ink, paper, green pads, teflon sheets, Heat resistant felt, heat tape and burn cream  is where most of your money will go!

Nikki G
NG Ink Screen Print & Design


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## 34Ford (Mar 19, 2010)

You didn't say which new Work Force you got.
Same 30 or a 40?


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## mgarick (May 19, 2010)

Just my 2 cents...We bought the Ricoh 5000 and it may be more expensive....BUT..We have had no head issues and We do a LOT of Sublimation at christmas and during the year...we may sub 2 or 3 items a month.......We have had to clean the nozzle 2 times since we have had it (over a year) and no problems....We usually get a good nozzle check even after a month of sitting up...Don't know anything else about the others..but if another printer sits item for a while will you lose the head??? Then will it be better to go the cheap route??? How are the print heads holding up on the epson c88? The person sound like just starting out and unless her plate is full from the get go is the c88 printer going to sit idol for a few days and start back up ok??? Just a question to the users of the c88?


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## nikki g (Sep 15, 2009)

34Ford said:


> You didn't say which new Work Force you got.
> Same 30 or a 40?


Oh Sorry ...same,Work Force 30...Epson won't upgrade, lol...I asked! They only replace what is broke.


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## taricp35 (Dec 10, 2008)

mgarick said:


> Just my 2 cents...We bought the Ricoh 5000 and it may be more expensive....BUT..We have had no head issues and We do a LOT of Sublimation at christmas and during the year...we may sub 2 or 3 items a month.......We have had to clean the nozzle 2 times since we have had it (over a year) and no problems....We usually get a good nozzle check even after a month of sitting up...Don't know anything else about the others..but if another printer sits item for a while will you lose the head??? Then will it be better to go the cheap route??? How are the print heads holding up on the epson c88? The person sound like just starting out and unless her plate is full from the get go is the c88 printer going to sit idol for a few days and start back up ok??? Just a question to the users of the c88?


Clogging was something I thought about because if the printer sits idle for too long, then yes it will clog. The longest I let my printer sit without printing was about a month. I just simply forgot to run a few pages while it was not being used but a tip I found on here helped me out greatly. 

_"Pull all cartridges out and un-plug the printer. Use a 10ml IV tubing syringe (like the ones we prime bulk systems with), fill the syringe with water or windex or even simple green. Inject 2ml's directly into the top of each post that draws ink in. Wait 10 minutes and repeat the proccess one time."

_This advice came from a forum sponsor that sells dye sub equipment. I use distilled water and have only had to do this once with my set up in almost 2 years. This may not be the best set up for everyone, but even with my high volume of sublimation, it is still the best set up for me. I went this route when I first started because of money, now that I can afford a better printer, I just don't see the need to upgrade as the c88+ does the job nicely for me.

My printer never sits idle for more than a few days and each time I go to print something it prints perfectly so until it dies on me, I will continue to use this set up.


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## aries (Mar 18, 2007)

uncletee said:


> we use a c-88 with refillable carts and love it, easy to refill carts and alot less then a ciss system. good way to get started, we do tiles and mugs, so i don't need the bigger format. you should be able to find refurbished c-88 online or at epson.com good luck.


I have c88 with new sub carts but no print.What I doing wrong,I replaced the old carts with sub carts..


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## PhenomDnP (May 15, 2012)

Will this work on t-shirts as well as the mugs?


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## saraj (Dec 4, 2007)

In 2007, I started with a c88 with a continuous ink system, and it left little black specks throughout the tiles i was sublimating, which had light pastel backgrounds, so the specks were unacceptable. I tried 3 different C88s, same speckles. So then I moved to the 1400 and used that for four years. When I could get a clean nozzle check, it printed beautifully, but the continous ink reduced me to tears more times than i can count, messing with syringes full of ink at midnight is so not worth it. I have had the ricoh 3300 for six months, and have never had a single clogged nozzle (knock on wood). If you are doing anything where black speckles will be tiresome, skip the c88. only get the 1400 with a CIS if you want to become an expert at unclogging epson nozzles. good luck!


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

Not trying to confuse you on this, but I think everyone has their own opinions on these small format sublimation printers. I have never owned a Ricoh so I can't comment on them, but have used Epsons for 12 years. I am currently using the C88+ (& on the 3rd one). I use the refill carts & find they are quick to refill with no issues. I usually get a couple of good years with each printer before it's time to replace. As with anything, I think there are lemons in any equipment. I have heard good & bad about the Ricohs & same for the Epsons, but a lot of people use the Epsons for small format subbing. It is the least expensive way to give it a try in my opinion.


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