# Mention pricey Oz postage costs?



## Major_Grooves (Apr 26, 2005)

I'd like to sell my t-shirts in Australia, but the postage costs from Spreadshirt.com are a little high.

US$10.99 = AUS$14.89 = £5.94

Which would be enough to put some people off.

My brother is in Oz just now and reckons the backpackers would love the designs. He said that if I got some posters made up, he would put them round the backpackers hostels.

So, should I mention on the poster what the postage costs are and say something along the lines of 'I know the postage is pricey - so you should buy 2 to make it worthwhile'?

or should I just not mention it on the poster and allow them to visit the site then work it out once they go to the checkout?

I would also have to mention the fact that prices are in US$ (see other thread re this)


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

That is pricey! You can send from Oz to the US for about $AUS6-7,

The problem with backpackers is they usually don't have a fixed address....2 weeks postal + no fixed address seems like chargebacks waiting to happen, claiming no goods arrived.

And usually backpackers are a) poor, b) the sort of people who are out to see the world, not go to Sydney then import US tshirts.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

I agree with monkeylantern - to be perfectly honest I don't think it's going to work.


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## Major_Grooves (Apr 26, 2005)

Solmu said:


> I agree with monkeylantern - to be perfectly honest I don't think it's going to work.


Aye you're right. I've already emailed my brother to say so. Could get some regular sales there... maybe.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

Major_Grooves said:


> Aye you're right. I've already emailed my brother to say so. Could get some regular sales there... maybe.


Maybe you should keep it in mind though as a "back burner" idea? If you could partner with someone here to produce the shirts "on demand" for that market then you could kind use two different fulfilment services for your two different markets? 

Just a thought.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines as Kath - Australian sales are certainly an option for you at some point, I just don't think _this_ method will work.

You're probably better off concentrating on the local market, then if that works out you can look into getting shirts printed in Australia and distributed to local retail outlets to sell, if that's something you're interested in. If you're established in the UK first that will give you 1) The capital, and 2) The sales record to have people want to stock your stuff.

Also, if you move away from spreadshirt at some point you'll be able to do regular internet sales to Australia more easily, as your shipping cost will decrease a little.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> So, should I mention on the poster what the postage costs are and say something along the lines of 'I know the postage is pricey - so you should buy 2 to make it worthwhile'?


As a general rule, you shouldn't mention negative language or tell your customer something on your site is too pricey.

You could offend your potential customers (not all customers are who you think they are, so telling them they can't afford something could put them off before they even reach your shop). 

People are smart enough to visit a shop and decide whether the shipping costs are too much on their own. *They* will weigh the costs of shipping with how cool your design is (and how they can't get it anywhere else in the world) and make their own decision. If you weigh in on that decision with "yes, it's pricey", you could tip the tables in the wrong direction


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## Major_Grooves (Apr 26, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> Maybe you should keep it in mind though as a "back burner" idea? If you could partner with someone here to produce the shirts "on demand" for that market then you could kind use two different fulfilment services for your two different markets?
> 
> Just a thought.


Unfortunately the back burner goes out in a few weeks, as he is returning from his year-long trip to Oz!

Maybe if sales go well here I could team up with one of you guys for Oz. Afterall, about half the people I have interacted with on the forum so far seem to be from Melbourne! That place must be swimming in cool t-shirts!


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> half the people I have interacted with on the forum so far seem to be from Melbourne! That place must be swimming in cool t-shirts!


I know...makes me want to take a vacation Australia (not just for the t-shirts of course, but it seems like a nice bonus )


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Melbourne is the lovliest place I've ever been. And I been around....

And we are, apparently, a Tshirt Mecca.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I just reread the pricing conversions in the original post. I charge $12 USD for international shipping and haven't had any problem with it. That's just about the actual cost for USPS Global Priority Mail (by weight).


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

It costs $5.25 for a small Global Priority flat rate envelope, and if you're a packing god you can fit a 3XL in that. A large envelope is $9.50, and you can easily fit at least three shirts of any size in that - more if they're smaller sizes.

Speaking for myself, I won't pay USD $11-$12 to ship a shirt. Two, maybe (I just did pay Jinx $11 for two) - but not one.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> A large envelope is $9.50, and you can easily fit at least three shirts of any size in that - more if they're smaller sizes.


A large flatrate or a large tyvek? I was talking about a large tyvek by weight (not the flatrate kind).

I do sometimes ship in the flatrate envelopes, but I don't like trying to squeeze shirts into small envelopes that were made for paper. I'll sometimes ship one via flatrate envelope, but never 2 or more (hoodies are just out of the question )


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

It's not an enormous obstacle to aim for 2-3 sales a day....then you can cut a 1/3rd or more off those rates at business rates. A good short-medium goal for a small seller.


EDIT: Of course, being an idiot, I'm talking about the other way around. You can safely ignore me.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> A large flatrate or a large tyvek? I was talking about a large tyvek by weight (not the flatrate kind).


The large/small cardboard flat-rate.



Rodney said:


> I do sometimes ship in the flatrate envelopes, but I don't like trying to squeeze shirts into small envelopes that were made for paper. I'll sometimes ship one via flatrate envelope, but never 2 or more (hoodies are just out of the question )


While I agree that tyvek is better, I think the cardboard is good enough, and saves the customer money. I've had lots of books sent in those envelopes (without a problem), which are a lot more vulnerable than t-shirts. Just the other week someone sent me 17 books spread across 5 envelopes - by far the cheapest and most effective way to get them here (surface would have only been 20% cheaper, and taken 2-3 months (USPS will tell you 4-6 weeks, but that is an outright lie) instead of 7 days).

When packed full they do sometimes get small tears at the corners (although I don't recall that ever happening with t-shirts), which is arguably not the best for your image - but on the other hand I think most people would just say "bloody postal service, never takes care of my package" and leave it at that. It's not like the t-shirt will be harmed.

I could see a hoodie being a problem, but haven't tried it.

Basically I agree that tyvek presents better (although I also know a lot of people who hate tyvek and incorrectly perceive it as flimsy because it is so thin), but I think the priority is to save the customer the most money you can while still delivering a quality product - flat-rate envelopes still allow you to deliver a quality product, but at a better price.

I'm not talking as a seller here, but as the stingy customer who hates paying more for postage than he has to. It's less relevant at the large size (where we're talking a price difference of about $2 - $2 I'd still rather save if possible, $2 that could be the difference between me buying or not buying), and more with sites that don't use the small size at all (so one girl's t-shirt costs $12 to ship... great).

If we wanted to get back to "What Would Amazon.com Do?" - Threadless use the flat rate envelopes


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Solmu said:


> If we wanted to get back to "What Would Amazon.com Do?" - Threadless use the flat rate envelopes


Order more than 5 shirts from Threadless, and they way they jam them into a flat rate, scrunched up and crinkled, I think has a lot to be desired.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

monkeylantern said:


> Order more than 5 shirts from Threadless, and they way they jam them into a flat rate, scrunched up and crinkled, I think has a lot to be desired.


It didn't particularly bother me, but I can see how it would leave a bad impression.

The thing that annoyed me when they did that was that they fit all the t-shirts into one large flat rate envelope... and charged me as if they hadn't (I think I paid about $18... so twice what it cost them).


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Solmu said:


> The thing that annoyed me when they did that was that they fit all the t-shirts into one large flat rate envelope... and charged me as if they hadn't (I think I paid about $18... so twice what it cost them).


Agreed. Postage hiking is fine for a small amount to cover packaging....but not when the packaging is free, and the hike is $15.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Order more than 5 shirts from Threadless, and they way they jam them into a flat rate, scrunched up and crinkled, I think has a lot to be desired.


I just loaded up at threadless (more than 5 tees) recently with their new site design and $10 sale and I wasn't too impressed with the packaging...and I'm in the US!

I guess thinking back at it though, the poor packaging doesn't make me less likely to shop at threadless...although their site is an exception because of they way it is structured.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I just loaded up at threadless (more than 5 tees) recently with their new site design and $10 sale and I wasn't too impressed with the packaging...and I'm in the US!



Especially when their rivals are doing things like this:


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Yeah, much as I find it amusing to joke about "What Would Threadless Do?" there's a *lot* of things they do I wouldn't even _dream_ of doing. Sometimes I think they're extremely sloppy (they should keep their employees on a tighter leash for example - they don't seem to understand that they are representing the company).

The company grew organically from two computer nerds without business experience (who mostly hire similar people), and it really shows. I think the lesson there is that if you start getting that big you should hire a business manager and take a back seat.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

IMHO international shipping and domestic shipping are really two very different ballgames when it comes to customer expectations.

I recently bought two t-shirts from CafePress and since I was in no huge hurry for them, and they were coming from the States, they could have arrived by carrier pigeon for all I cared as long as I paid the least possible amount of money. However, when I order something from an Australian vendor (clothing or otherwise) I do expect a bit more in terms of packaging and delivery times, since domestic postage is not that expensive.

The thing is - just about everybody else's dollar is worth LESS than the USD. So it's very easy for things to start getting expensive very quickly, and IMHO, postage costs can have a big impact on a sale.

E.g - currently, I'm nailing down which transfer paper we're going to use. I've trialled two papers from two different vendors - one ships in a $9.50 global priority envelope (for 25 sheets) the other vendor charges about $15 (not sure what the shipping method they use is) for the same amount of sheets. So far, I can't say there's a huge difference in the quality of the paper's, so for me a major "deal breaker" is going to be postage.

Obviously, with custom t-shirts, it is a little bit different in that they can't get that exact shirt any where else. However, sometimes I think we overuse that argument a bit. Sure, the customer can't get YOUR shirt anywhere else, but they may find someone else's they like just as much - or at least enough that they start to sit down and think "I really like shirt A better, but shirt B is going to cost me less and it's not half bad..."


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> since I was in no huge hurry for them, and they were coming from the States, they could have arrived by carrier pigeon for all I cared as long as I paid the least possible amount of money


 I know what you mean. I tend to feel that way about a lot of what I buy. I trust that it'll get here eventually (if I didn't think it would be sent I wouldn't have paid the money, however small it was), and I'm almost inveitably buying it because I _want_ it, not because I _need_ it. So I can wait. I'm not sure most of the market is that patient though.

That said, with t-shirts it's often (though not always) going to cost much the same for air, surface or global priority. Global priority is often cheaper at that low weight end even. Sometimes it's artificially differentiated by large companies, or if you're ordering five shirts and up it makes a difference. It's only once the weights start going up the price difference becomes dramatic. 



funtimesx said:


> Obviously, with custom t-shirts, it is a little bit different in that they can't get that exact shirt any where else. However, sometimes I think we overuse that argument a bit. Sure, the customer can't get YOUR shirt anywhere else, but they may find someone else's they like just as much


I agree entirely. Off the top of my head I can think of only one seller who offers a unique product. I'm sure there must be a few others, but they're *very* rare. Most of what we buy is somewhat similar to other sites we buy from - there's plenty of money for everybody because no-one only wants to buy one product (and once people start shopping online they often find it addictive). Small differences can cost you sales though, because there is so much competition.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> The thing is - just about everybody else's dollar is worth LESS than the USD. So it's very easy for things to start getting expensive very quickly, and IMHO, postage costs can have a big impact on a sale.



You mean *more* than the dollar. The dollar is falling (and has been for years) against the pound, the yen, an enormous amout against the Euro, and other major Western currencies. For example, in the mid80s, the pound was about £1 = US$1.05, and now is £1 = US$~2, and the Euro has changed even more.

The weak dollar are why imports become so expensive (as is foreign travel for Americans)


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

my bad! yeah, i guess you're right. I'm used to the USD being "the currency" but that's a bit out of date, now! Still worth more than the AUD, though (but not by nearly as much any more).


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> my bad! yeah, i guess you're right. I'm used to the USD being "the currency" but that's a bit out of date, now! Still worth more than the AUD, though (but not by nearly as much any more).


But it does mean your "pricey" postage probably looks fine to the foreign market. Think about us poor folks trying to export to you!

And the US dollar has almost halved in value against the Aus$ in the last decade.... 

We should all be buying Yen......


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

I find it particularly interesting to compare the USD to the Euro since the Euro was originally floated off the USD (and while they stayed relatively close for a while... they sure have diverged).

It has certainly had a major impact on my buying habbits. I started buying online before our dollar crashed and that was feasible. Then our dollar crashed (_really_ badly - just when you thought it couldn't get worse, off goes another cent... this may now sound familiar) and my purchasing was restricted to stuff I *really* wanted. During this time Australia was a common online destination for US customers, because our dollar wasn't worth a damn. Then the US economy went down the toilet... terrible for most of you, but great for us.

The upside for US sellers is that if they're willing to ship internationally, the market has expanded a lot.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

A $800 billion trade deficit and a budget deficit of $400 billion (so, over $1 trillion) do not a healthy currency make.

But great for buying tshirts from Threadless in Oz!


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

monkeylantern said:


> But it does mean your "pricey" postage probably looks fine to the foreign market. Think about us poor folks trying to export to you!


Um, now _that_ comment confuses me. I'm in Australia too, and US postage still looks pricey to me...


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

funtimesx said:


> Um, now _that_ comment confuses me. I'm in Australia too, and US postage still looks pricey to me...


Doh! Of course you are.

If they actually charged what it costs them, it *is* cheap.

I got 9 Threadless shirts in a $9.80 envelope......but they charged $24....


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

monkeylantern said:


> Doh! Of course you are.


And here was I just assuming you'd forgotten you were in Australia for a second


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## BangBangT-Shirts (Jun 4, 2006)

I'm currently thinking about this kind of thing as I'm based in the UK and when my prices convert to USD, they look extremely expensive compared to US/AUS based sites. For example, my t-shirts will be around £15 and when converted to USD they are 25USD - 30USD. But on US based sites they sell their t-shirts for a maximum of 20USD.

Is there anything I can do about this or am I at a disadvantage because I sell from the UK?


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## hongkongdmz (Jun 29, 2006)

Lower the price of your t-shirts for the US market and look to make smaller profits I guess. Or look at making other smaller items in addition to your t-shirts like buttons, the cost translations should work out ok in that sense. 

HongKongDMZ


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

How would you go about lowering product price based on region on an international website? Throuigh postage, possibly, but product price? Without it looking very, very odd.


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## hongkongdmz (Jun 29, 2006)

Say its based on the rate of tax I guess into Australia.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Unless you're ordering over $1000 worth of shirts, there is no import tax. And how would that be usable in lowering product price regionally? The importer (ie customer) is paying that anyway, if applicable, reguardless of your site, or you.


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## funtimesx (Apr 9, 2006)

I'm not quite sure where you get this "maximum of 20USD", anyway? I've seen quite a few sites selling t-shirts in the $25-$30 USD range. It depends on what you're selling, of course, but I can't see why people wouldn't be willing to pay $25USD for something they loved.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

You can easily enter the $25-35 online if you use a premium fashion shirt and have superb designs.


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## hongkongdmz (Jun 29, 2006)

What would you call a premium fashion shirt?


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

hongkongdmz said:


> What would you call a premium fashion shirt?


A shirt using a percieved "quality" brand (ie American Apparel, Alternative Apparel), preferably relabeled, superb artistic designs (and with a professional website, professional packaging, etc).


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## hongkongdmz (Jun 29, 2006)

Could a start-up company offer that if they all of your mentioned requirements and materials?


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## ShadowDragon (Aug 6, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I just reread the pricing conversions in the original post. I charge $12 USD for international shipping and haven't had any problem with it. That's just about the actual cost for USPS Global Priority Mail (by weight).


Hrm, this actually makes me think about my own situation with my online tshirt store im trying to build... I live in australia and I have concerns not so much about the pricing but the time it would take for my stock to arrive in the U.K or the united states all awhile competting against U.K and USA stores  

I think the best strategy I could use is to just tell the customers up front how much it costs depending on how fast they want it delivered to their particular country much like amazon does.

On the OTHER hand however, some tshirt stores seem to be doing well boasting a `flat shipping rate of $5 or whatever' for shipping a tshirt or two out...

Hrm... what to do... what to do...


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## tra517 (Aug 27, 2006)

oddica's packaging is amazing. now, does anyone know of a company that creates those mailers? - I can't tell for sure, but it does look like it is a bubble mailer.


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## KeenT (Sep 25, 2006)

ShadowDragon said:


> . I live in australia and I have concerns not so much about the pricing but the time it would take for my stock to arrive in the U.K or the united states all awhile competing against U.K and USA stores


Yes, I'm wondering too: Will a customer not order because he will receive a T in 2 weeks instead of one?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Will a customer not order because he will receive a T in 2 weeks instead of one?


Some will and some won't. Most international customers understand that transit time is longer for shipping those orders.

It's good to offer it for the ones that do (more customers buying your shirts in a wide variety of places). The ones that don't just won't and it's no big deal 



> oddica's packaging is amazing. now, does anyone know of a company that creates those mailers?


I sent a message to Brian of oddica asking about it. Hopefully he'll give me some good info


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

Hi Rodney, got your msg regarding the Oddica packaging, so thought I'd make a post.

The packages are not as expensive as most people think. But the minimums can be high, typically 20,000 is the lowest minimum you'll find ... 

We have two bags, the largest one cost approx. 40 cents, the smaller one approx 25 cents.

I originally wanted to do a screenprinted box, but the blank prices all seemed to be over 50 cents each.

We like our bags, but we know that others will produce them, too. We've given out our contact to some people (tokidoki, extra tasty australia, jpg magazine are three) but I'm not sure if Ivan or Alex or Derek are actually going to produce them.

Our particular contact is in Los Angeles, and there's a slight language barrier (the supplier is Korean, and phone conversations are difficult, in person is fine) ... if someone *really* wants the supplier, and is able to get a Korean translator, or is able to come to Los Angeles, you can email me at brianjar (at) earthlink.net

otherwise, I'd suggest googling 'flexible packaging'

http://www.convenientpackaging.com/products.php

Convenient packaging has a good reputation.

The other option is getting a bag from ULine and screenprinting on it. A few magazines do this well, including Arkitip.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Hey Brian, thanks for sharing.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> Some will and some won't. Most international customers understand that transit time is longer for shipping those orders.


The problem is that US customers won't necessarily see themselves as being international customers.


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## tra517 (Aug 27, 2006)

Rodney and Brian, THANK YOU for all of your generous help on Oddica's packaging. it is truly appreciated!


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## Import (Aug 13, 2006)

BangBangT-Shirts said:


> I'm currently thinking about this kind of thing as I'm based in the UK and when my prices convert to USD, they look extremely expensive compared to US/AUS based sites. For example, my t-shirts will be around £15 and when converted to USD they are 25USD - 30USD. But on US based sites they sell their t-shirts for a maximum of 20USD.
> 
> Is there anything I can do about this or am I at a disadvantage because I sell from the UK?


I used to run a large site retailing bath products from the UK. To my surprise around 20% of my customers turned out to be from the US - and many were repeat customers. This despite me charging what I considered an exorbitant amount for shipping (still didn't actually cover costs - I probably could have got away with charging the actual shipping cost) and the products being fairly pricey to begin with. The products I sold were often quite unique and US buyers were willing to pay. As long as your shirts are not typical of shirts available in the US I wouldn't lower your prices to begin with. Test the market first - remember it is always easier to lower your prices than raise them.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Solmu said:


> The problem is that US customers won't necessarily see themselves as being international customers.


I think most US Citizens have enough intellect to notice when the site is shipping from outside the US 

Most sites give pretty clear clues: prices in different currencies, shipping prices clearly labeled for their destination, etc.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I think most US Citizens have enough intellect to notice when the site is shipping from outside the US


Sorry, I was pretty vague. I didn't mean to suggest US customers would be too stupid to realise they were ordering from another country. Basically what I was getting at is the way people "see" themselves.

As someone living in Australia, a long way from anywhere much, I see myself as being physically isolated for most of the commerce that occurs in the world, and I have to pay a premium to get anything to me. That's just the price of living here. If I wish to purchase something online I am more likely to look overseas because the local offering is poor.

Someone living in America on the other hand has plenty of local opportunities and no need to look offshore. If they come to an international site, the extra time and money for shipping may be considered too much to bear when there are plenty of local competitors who can provide the same service (a t-shirt) without such drawbacks. Because they don't view themselves as an international customer (in general) there is less need to become one.

The usual arguments of "they can't get _your_ t-shirt just anywhere" apply, but many things go into the decision making process of a potential customer, and it is one thing that may get factored in in the negative.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> As someone living in Australia, a long way from anywhere much, I see myself as being physically isolated for most of the commerce that occurs in the world, and I have to pay a premium to get anything to me. That's just the price of living here. If I wish to purchase something online I am more likely to look overseas because the local offering is poor.


Oddly enough, I know how you feel. Even though I am right across the border from the US, I always feel like an "international" customer. I buy from Canada as much as possible but most of the time I just can't find it here. Sad but true!


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Solmu said:


> The company grew organically from two computer nerds without business experience (who mostly hire similar people), and it really shows. I think the lesson there is that if you start getting that big you should hire a business manager and take a back seat.


If I remember the tale correctly, Apple computers did something to that effect (early 80s) and it ended up hurting them a lot more than it helped  Not a bad idea in general, but one should still tread carefully.



monkeylantern said:


> How would you go about lowering product price based on region on an international website? Throuigh postage, possibly, but product price? Without it looking very, very odd.


It can work just fine and it doesn't really look that odd. I know a UK-based shop that was originally justy targeting UK customers (assuming the US market was already saturated enough with the types of shirts he was selling). After requests from various US customers, he did start offering International orders.

On his website, he simply has 3 flags at the top where people can select their currency. I believe it probably defaults to the appropriate one depending on where you are coming from, though I'm not certain. For US Customers he actually has a company in the US basically handle the fulfillment portion (screen print/package/ship) so US customers can get his shirts without high shipping costs.

Anyway, he charges a pretty standard rate for US shirts but still charges more for the UK sales since they do sell for more (because of low US Dollar value, people paying more for shirts in UK, or whatever). Seems like it works just fine; people are charged what they expect, the website looks and works fine for all of them, etc.



Solmu said:


> Someone living in America on the other hand has plenty of local opportunities and no need to look offshore. If they come to an international site, the extra time and money for shipping may be considered too much to bear when there are plenty of local competitors who can provide the same service (a t-shirt) without such drawbacks. Because they don't view themselves as an international customer (in general) there is less need to become one.
> 
> The usual arguments of "they can't get _your_ t-shirt just anywhere" apply, but many things go into the decision making process of a potential customer, and it is one thing that may get factored in in the negative.


 Of course it is "another checkbox in the minus column" or whatever you want to call it. But, if it's easy enough to offer international shipping, then why not? You certainly won't covert all distant customers (and ikely not as well as the local ones), but some will be willing to pay the higher shipping prices and will be sales you otherwise wouldn't have.


Oh, and one more note: An advantage if you're shipping something in one of the Tyvex envelopes is that you can simply ship the shirt by itself just fine. If you're shipping it inside one of the cardboard envelopes you'll probably need to bag it in some fashion to protect it.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Twinge said:


> But, if it's easy enough to offer international shipping, then why not?


Absolutely; one should always at least offer it.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Twinge said:


> Oh, and one more note: An advantage if you're shipping something in one of the Tyvex envelopes is that you can simply ship the shirt by itself just fine. If you're shipping it inside one of the cardboard envelopes you'll probably need to bag it in some fashion to protect it.


Only if you're paranoid, or trying to put across a certain quality image.

I can tell you from experience the cardboard envelopes hold up well enough to a bit of battering (i.e. I'm on the receiving end, so I see them after a round world trip ).

A lot of people on the forums have complained about what a cruddy impression Threadless makes by the way they send their shirts (i.e. pretty much just chucked in a cardboard envelope), so there is that - but I definitely wouldn't say you _need_ to bag them (and certainly not for protection - only to create a better impression with the customer, which granted is kind of important ).


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> can tell you from experience the cardboard envelopes hold up well enough to a bit of battering (i.e. I'm on the receiving end, so I see them after a round world trip ).


Even through wet weather? I think that's what I'd be worried about with a cardboard box.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> Solmu said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you from experience the cardboard envelopes hold up well enough to a bit of battering (i.e. I'm on the receiving end, so I see them after a round world trip ).
> ...


Yeah, that I can't guarantee 

I can say I've received them in the middle of a rainy winter and they've never got wet (the postman isn't going to dunk it in a puddle or anything ), but if the customer's mailbox is cruddy or something like that you never know. That said, if the package doesn't fit safely in the mailbox the postman isn't that likely to leave it (i.e. they'll leave a card to pick it up at the post office).


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## romeopaul29 (Feb 8, 2011)

Maybe if sales go well here I could team up with one of you laughs at for Oz. Afterall, about half the people I have acted with on the forum so far seem to be from Melbourne.


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