# Laser Transfer on Dark Tshirts!



## LOLHippo (Nov 9, 2013)

Hello Guys , 

I am planning to buy OKI 920WT for my tshirt business that i am setting up right , i have searched this forum a lot but can't find any recent post on doing a self weeding heat transfer on dark tshirts. 

All posts in this forum are 2011 regarding heating transfer on dark tshirts. 

Would be a great help if someone can help and provide images of their transfers. 

Printing on white is not an issue but i just want to know how to heat transfer on dark tshirts before making a huge investment. Choosing 920WT because of its a3 possibilities


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## BadReligion (Dec 9, 2011)

Here you go

[media]http://www.vezenjegs.si/image/data/galerija-dtg/dtg-001.jpg[/media]
[media]http://www.vezenjegs.si/image/data/galerija-dtg/IMG-20120703-00079.jpg[/media]

we use OKI920wt and it's great however decorating dark garments can be tricky because of special transfer paper.


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## LOLHippo (Nov 9, 2013)

badreligion said:


> here you go
> 
> [media]http://www.vezenjegs.si/image/data/galerija-dtg/dtg-001.jpg[/media]
> [media]http://www.vezenjegs.si/image/data/galerija-dtg/img-20120703-00079.jpg[/media]
> ...


that is amazing bro! Which transfer paper is that???


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## BadReligion (Dec 9, 2011)

We use forever transfer papers for dark garments. The tricky part is to join A and B paper and then peel B paper of A paper without damaging the graphic, but with a little bit of practice and if you follow the instructions it can be done.


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## LOLHippo (Nov 9, 2013)

BadReligion said:


> We use forever transfer papers for dark garments. The tricky part is to join A and B paper and then peel B paper of A paper without damaging the graphic, but with a little bit of practice and if you follow the instructions it can be done.


Appreciate you prompt reply , how is the feel?


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## RobertTSS (Dec 4, 2009)

ImageClip for Dark by Neenah Paper is a great product if you use it correctly...the product is popular and a big seller as well.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

You can do it with CMYK printer and interchangeable white toner. The image was printed on Imageclip for dark with obsolete C5200Ne CMYK and white toner printer. You can control how much white toner to use. I read some feedback that Oki printers with white toner the black is more like dark gray than deep black. CMYK printer is way more cheaper than printers with built in white toner.


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## print5 (Aug 31, 2014)

Hi Lnfortun,
please tell me, You have put white toner to the place of the black toner? 
Can you please try to explain?

Thanks
Alex


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

print5 said:


> Hi Lnfortun,
> please tell me, You have put white toner to the place of the black toner?
> Can you please try to explain?
> 
> ...


No there is no white toner on the black color. However, since the black color is a toner it cannot be avoided having white opaque underneath it. The technique I use is better than how Okidata laser printer with white toner applies white toner. Okidata floods the colors except black with white toner. 

I can control how much white toner is used and it is only applied where the white toner is needed. The white image is an inverse or negative of the colors which eliminates black. The inverse image is more or less a negative image. So when I switch the black drum/toner with white drum/toner then print the negative image on the second pass the white toner will only be on the dark part of the image. Since the negative of black is white and the printer thinks that the white drum/toner is black drum/toner it will not print on white areas that would have been black before it was inverted or made negative.

I create the inverse or negative image with Photoshop. I have an automated action steps for Photoshop. I also wrote a CorelDRAW plugin macro to automate the process. 

BTW both color and negative images are converted to RGB halftone which lowers the amount of toner used and leaves empty spaces around the dots which makes the image hand less plastic.

In case you are interested ATTTransfer sells white drum/toner combo for Okidata CMYK laser printers. CMYK printer and additional White drum/toner is by far way less expensive than Okidata laser printer with white toner. Plus from what I have read there is very little or no support for Okidata laser printer with white toner not even from Okidata I believe.

Search the forum for C711WT, ES711WT and ColorPro 920WT and you see some of the negative feedback regarding getting support.

Here is the link to forum search engine: T-Shirt Forums - Search Forums

Click the link and use C711WT or ES711WT or ColorPro 920WT as keyword.

I suggest that you really research the laser printer with white toner and think hard before investing a lot of money and then have regrets.


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## LOLHippo (Nov 9, 2013)

Thanks LNfortun , so what should i use ? if not 920WT then ? i am making a site like spreadshirt.com and will be having lot of orders so i need a good printer with self weeding paper. What will be your final verdict?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

LOLHippo said:


> Thanks LNfortun , so what should i use ? if not 920WT then ? i am making a site like spreadshirt.com and will be having lot of orders so i need a good printer with self weeding paper. What will be your final verdict?


If there is a store nearby that sells Okidata laser printer ask if you can print with sample self weeding transfer paper. Get sample of Imageclip Laser light for start. Print with different model that is available in the store. Be sure to set the printer media to card stock and media weight to Ultra Heavy. Otherwise, the toner will smear and sticky that will cause jamming. Next try sample of Imageclip laser dark transfer. If you get the model printer to print on the transfer then pick that model. I would suggest contacting ATTTransfer if there is available white drum/toner for the model. 

I can work with you on how to use and interchange black drum/toner with white drum/toner and create negative or inverse image using Photoshop or CorelDRAW for CMYK printer.

Another cheap alternative is buy a good used C3200 or C5000 series printer. I have a C5200Ne which is obsolete. It is still does good job. Unlike the new model printers, the two series do not have chip in the cartridges and can be reset without issue when using compatible drum and toner cartridges. You can find used printer online for about $200.00 or less. At least you get the feel for using self weeding light and dark transfers. If you are successful you can decide to upgrade to newer model or printer with white toner. ATTTransfer has drum/toner available for the two series. You can buy two printers. Use one for full CMYK and the other with white drum/toner instead of interchanging the drum/toner to print white toner when using only one CMYK printer.

Here is a thread of a member that is having good experience with CMYK printer and white toner: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/laser-heat-transfer-paper/t215143.html?highlight=opron+white+toner

You don't have to go with my suggestions but that is what I would do if I start over.


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## print5 (Aug 31, 2014)

Hi Lnfortun,

thank you for the explanation and for the link.
I read a lot of posts, but I have not found the price of white cartridge.
I must to contact the ATTTransfer , because I do not know if the company sends toner to Europe.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

print5 said:


> Hi Lnfortun,
> 
> thank you for the explanation and for the link.
> I read a lot of posts, but I have not found the price of white cartridge.
> I must to contact the ATTTransfer , because I do not know if the company sends toner to Europe.


I believe he has representative in UK.

There is a member, Sordisc, from UK who purchased from AL. Send him a PM. Ask him the process of purchasing the white drum/toner set. Or contact Al directly. His email address is [email protected] 

Phone: 1-908-213-2830.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Alex, We ship all over the world our white toner. A bottle of white toner cost $264.00.
Clean drums and cartridges cost depends on the model printer you have.
AL
Automatic Transfer, Inc. - White Sublimation Toner


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## print5 (Aug 31, 2014)

Hi sublial,

thanks for the information. I am currently in the testing phase.
I have today a first time print the T-Shirt with Forever No-Cut.
Here's how it looks printed on the white T-Shirt and black T-Shirt.

[media]http://s14.directupload.net/images/140918/k54t3wy3.jpg[/media]

Photo is not the best because I photographed with a phone.
Print is without white toner.


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## print5 (Aug 31, 2014)

T-Shirt white - Forever Laser-Transparent (No Background)
T-Shirt black - Forever Laser-Dark (No-Cut) LowTemp CMYK

In reality looks much better than the photographs.


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## print5 (Aug 31, 2014)

Another photograph. 
The fact: On the white shirt is much easier to work with.
For a black shirt, graphic must be carefully done. The colors must be of high intensity.

[media]http://s14.directupload.net/images/140918/2jjx8siv.jpg[/media]


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

print5 said:


> Hi sublial,
> 
> thanks for the information. I am currently in the testing phase.
> I have today a first time print the T-Shirt with Forever No-Cut.
> ...


Scan the shirt and you will better image.

How did you do the marrying? I can not get pass that stage with Forever Dark No Cut. I even tried the new EZ version and I failed on two attempts. Just like the earlier version. I get really good result marrying Imageclip Laser dark. I get 100% out of 20. That is very good odd compared to 0 out 12 with Forever Dark No Cut.

Did you have white toner with the printer?

Thanks.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

print5 said:


> Another photograph.
> The fact: On the white shirt is much easier to work with.
> For a black shirt, graphic must be carefully done. The colors must be of high intensity.
> 
> [media]http://s14.directupload.net/images/140918/2jjx8siv.jpg[/media]


Why would you waste expensive transfer for dark on white shirt? You can use 2 step self weeding Imageclip Laser Light for less than $0.75. Unlike laser dark transfer It does not crack.


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## print5 (Aug 31, 2014)

Hi,


I used: 
T-Shirt white - Forever Laser-Transparent (No Background)
T-Shirt black - Forever Laser-Dark (No-Cut) LowTemp CMYK - 2 step.

For black T-Shirt I used these steps:
Print with OKI C810DN (CMYK)
Print-mod: Transparency.
Press A Foil + B Paper 150 C (300F)
120 sec, 5 bar
Then separate the B-paper on the plate of heat press! Very important! But slowly.

Then place A Foil on the textile, and press 40 sec , 5bar, 150 C .(in the manual it says 30 seconds),
After 2 minutes slowly take off the B paper. And than repress with silicone - Matte finisch paper.


Can you please explain this to me ("I get 100% out of 20. That is very good odd compared to 0 out 12 with Forever Dark No Cut".), since I do not have much experience with the setup. A have the printer 1 mont..
I saw the instructions for transfer that color can be adjusted, but I do not know where to adjust ..Cyan +3, Magenta +3, Yellow 0 and Black 0..


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

print5 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I used:
> ...


Imageclip Laser dark is very forgiving in terms of temp, pressure and dwell time variances. The temp, time and pressure can be off and still marries and peels the papers without issues. On other hand I have not had good peel with No Cut. Not even enough to try and press to see the opacity, how white toner is helping and how the hand is. It is always partially ripped. Not transferring the opaque entirely on the image.

The EZ sample I got did not come with pressing instruction settings so I watched the video from DigitalHeatFX website. It showed 90 seconds at 300F. Heavy pressure. Peel hot. Entirely different from the dwell time you used. I still have 1 pair left. I will try 120 seconds. We will see. I will also try to use a laminator. There is a member that said laminator solved the marrying problem that he had.

The printer settings you mentioned is for printer with white toner. Pay attention to flyer that came with the transfer. It lists all those settings under the printer model with white toner. No adjustment for CMYK because the drive for CMYK is entirely different from the printer with white toner..

BTW how did you manage to transfer light and gradient? C810 does not come with white toner. It looks decent considering there is no white toner.

Have you washed the light transfer yet? You will be surprised. I will let find out why I said that.


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## LOLHippo (Nov 9, 2013)

thats looks great , any one tries EZ laser dark ? 

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtzQZyR0Lhg[/media]

it looks promising.


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## diveuk (Aug 14, 2013)

I have had some good results using TMT WOW 7.2 and my OKI C610, the WOW process is a bit complicated but once you have done a few it becomes easy(especially following Luis CorelDraw instruction sheet to produce the mask), the paper is expensive but for good results I think it is worth paying the extra.

The first picture was produced by TMT on a OKI C711WT, the second was produced by me on my C610, I think the colours on the print produced on my C610 are sharper than the C711WT. 

This shirt has been washed about 12 times, no fading or cracking so far.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

diveuk said:


> I have had some good results using TMT WOW 7.2 and my OKI C610, the WOW process is a bit complicated but once you have done a few it becomes easy(especially following Luis CorelDraw instruction sheet to produce the mask), the paper is expensive but for good results I think it is worth paying the extra.
> 
> The first picture was produced by TMT on a OKI C711WT, the second was produced by me on my C610, I think the colours on the print produced on my C610 are sharper than the C711WT.
> 
> This shirt has been washed about 12 times, no fading or cracking so far.


TMT 7.2 has always been good transfer for dark for CMYK printers because it transfers white. The black is masked off so that there is no opaque underneath the black toner that will mute the black or dark part of the image. Therefore you get deeper black and sharper image. The hand is also very soft. The cost is just way too high. But if you compare the price to full color screen print transfer it is about the same price or screen print transfer even costs more due to set up and cost per color. Some screen print transfer's hand is heavier. WOW 7.2 can be economical if the image size is crest or pocket size where multiple images can be ganged in one sheet. 

It seems the black or dark part on the first shirt were masked off. Was the black or dark part of the image masked off in the first image? Or were they flooded with white toner? You can tell if they were masked off. The black or dark part of the image do not have opaque on them. If they were there really is no need to spend money on printer with white toner to get deeper dark by masking. Since WOW 7.2 will work with CMYK printer and transfer white anyway.

TMT transfer for dark for printer with white toner is a different ballgame. I read several posts about not being able to marry A & B sheets just like Forever dark laser no cut and GoFlipIt. TMT's alibi is you have to have their heat press.

Do you have TMT's heat press? Have you tried WOW 7.7? They also claim their Okidata printer has their own proprietary driver or firmware. Did you buy your printer from TMT?

Anybody interested? Here is the link to the PDF file Phil is talking about: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...sbmZvcnR1bnNwYWdlc3xneDozMTFjNGZmZDhmODZjOTg0

Photoshop mask tutorial PDF file: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...sbmZvcnR1bnNwYWdlc3xneDozN2Y0YzcxOTliODZhZDIx

I also have YouTube video for Photoshop:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_bYJ4rNZY&feature=youtu.be

I have other tutorials in my homepage. Click the link under my signature.


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## diveuk (Aug 14, 2013)

Not sure how they produced the print on the first image, only know it was produced using the white toner OKI printer, it was a sample they sent me when I was researching white toner printers, I decided the cost was too high and went for the CMYK option. I got the file of the car image to test and compare results(think I made the correct decision, good results and initial outlay reduced).

Yes I purchased my printer from them, it has the standard OkI options plus presets for TMT products and colour management, my press which I already owned, is an Adkins which TMT rebrand as their own. Yes they do recommend using their own press but I think any swing press can work as opposed to a clam press because of the different ways the pressure is applied.

Have not used WOW7.7 as it is specifically for white toner printers.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

diveuk said:


> Not sure how they produced the print on the first image, only know it was produced using the white toner OKI printer, it was a sample they sent me when I was researching white toner printers, I decided the cost was too high and went for the CMYK option. I got the file of the car image to test and compare results(think I made the correct decision, good results and initial outlay reduced).
> 
> Yes I purchased my printer from them, it has the standard OkI options plus presets for TMT products and colour management, my press which I already owned, is an Adkins which TMT rebrand as their own. Yes they do recommend using their own press but I think any swing press can work as opposed to a clam press because of the different ways the pressure is applied.
> 
> Have not used WOW7.7 as it is specifically for white toner printers.


Well you pressed the transfer already. If it was masked off there would not have been opaque behind black and dark toner. Can you feel the black area if there is opaque on it? From the photo seems there is nothing in that area. It is hard to tell without the actual shirt.


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## diveuk (Aug 14, 2013)

Sorry I am with you now, both images the black areas are masked(no hand) to backup what you said about the white toner flooding if you look at the first image the red splash is dull red(cmy+white), whereas the red on the second image is brighter(cmyk), the blue is also brighter on the second image. I love WOW 7.2 its just too expensive to offer to most customers.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

diveuk said:


> Sorry I am with you now, both images the black areas are masked(no hand) to backup what you said about the white toner flooding if you look at the first image the red splash is dull red(cmy+white), whereas the red on the second image is brighter(cmyk), the blue is also brighter on the second image. I love WOW 7.2 its just too expensive to offer to most customers.


It sure is brighter. I did not even notice it. So CMYK printer is better in the long run. It is catch 22 though. You either buy expensive transfer and use cheaper printer or buy cheaper transfer and use expensive printer barring that WOW 7.7 works. Either way TMT got you coming and going.

It is too bad that TMT can't be a vendor like Walmart or Sams Club (US department stores) where they go by volume and make a killing because more customer is jumping on board. I think what TMT is trying to do is get back their investment overnight so to speak.


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## diveuk (Aug 14, 2013)

that about sums it up, here in the UK a box of WOW 7.2 is £140(around $220-230 US), a box of 7.7 is £90($145-150 US) 50 sets(imaging and masking paper) in a box so not cheap, you also have to use a WOW pad or heat retaining pad and good quality plain paper to print the negative mask onto, so more costs to factor into your pricing, it would help if they sold say 10 set boxes so small volume users do not have to wait ages for a return on their outlay.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

diveuk said:


> that about sums it up, here in the UK a box of WOW 7.2 is £140(around $220-230 US), a box of 7.7 is £90($145-150 US) 50 sets(imaging and masking paper) in a box so not cheap, you also have to use a WOW pad or heat retaining pad and good quality plain paper to print the negative mask onto, so more costs to factor into your pricing, it would help if they sold say 10 set boxes so small volume users do not have to wait ages for a return on their outlay.


Just looked it up in the US website. A box of 20 is $125.00 that is $6.25 a pair. It does not include the masking paper and soft pad. No wonder they call it WOW. That would be the first word a visitor to TMT's website would say after seeing the price.

I believe the masking paper is the same as Hammer mill Premium laser printer paper. It is heavier and has smoother surface. I used it to mask Imageclip Inkjet Light when it was still available. It is $10.00 a pack. Even cheaper in some places.

Have you tried silicone baking mat that is used for lining baking pan? I use it to retain heat when I marry and weed Imageclip Laser Light to minimize polymer speckle. I use the cheapest brand after I discovered it works just as well as Silpat that I used earlier (Actually my wife reclaimed her Silpat ). It is made by Wilton. It is $8.99 a sheet.


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## diveuk (Aug 14, 2013)

They only sell in boxes of 50 in the UK. Good tip for the heat pad, I will try it thanks, I also have some of this to try SILICONE SPONGE SHEET A4 SIZE 8MM THICK WHITE OR ANTHRACITE | eBay

Whilst we are on the subject of TMT, can anyone explain this to me, the attached picture is an image of a canvass bag I did with a leftover print on TMT TTC 3.1, this paper is NOT self weeding, although it was contour cut with a pair of scissors so not very close or accurate and only the outline, how come there is no window or polymer showing in the lettering.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

diveuk said:


> They only sell in boxes of 50 in the UK. Good tip for the heat pad, I will try it thanks, I also have some of this to try SILICONE SPONGE SHEET A4 SIZE 8MM THICK WHITE OR ANTHRACITE | eBay
> 
> Whilst we are on the subject of TMT, can anyone explain this to me, the attached picture is an image of a canvass bag I did with a leftover print on TMT TTC 3.1, this paper is NOT self weeding, although it was contour cut with a pair of scissors so not very close or accurate and only the outline, how come there is no window or polymer showing in the lettering.


Make sure it is high temp. You don't it sticking on the upper platen or the shirt or the transfer. Baking mat is rated at 500F. It says 200C at the website so there is plenty of room for the temp that you will be using.

Please post how it went. Hope it is not going to collapse like other sponge structure.

TTC 3.1 as far as I now leaves a polymer window. Not sure what is going on. Does it leave window on the shirt? Maybe it is due to coarse surface of the canvas material.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Going back to WOW 7.2 and the car image I am curious what the image looks like in the file. Can you post the image in the file?


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi Al. I am a friend of Luis, and he's enlightened me to the fact that printing on dark is within reasonable reach if you know what you are doing and play your cards accordingly!! You come highly recommended by him for white toner printing solutions! I am interested in proceeding with a 2-printer white/sublimination solution ... I have not purchased any printer yet - would like to know what you would suggest as far as models go - should I try to find two older models i.e. Oki 5150/5200 or do you recommend getting newer models that you can supply toner/drums for, etc. etc. Please PM me or email at [email protected] when you have a moment. Excited to do business with you! HAPPY THANKSGIVING!! 

Hey Luis! Hope all is well friend! GOBBLE-GOBBLE!!!!!!!

-Krista


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## RedbirdJaybird (Mar 14, 2013)

I meant to write SUBLIMATION lol!!!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

RedbirdJaybird said:


> Hi Al. I am a friend of Luis, and he's enlightened me to the fact that printing on dark is within reasonable reach if you know what you are doing and play your cards accordingly!! You come highly recommended by him for white toner printing solutions! I am interested in proceeding with a 2-printer white/sublimination solution ... I have not purchased any printer yet - would like to know what you would suggest as far as models go - should I try to find two older models i.e. Oki 5150/5200 or do you recommend getting newer models that you can supply toner/drums for, etc. etc. Please PM me or email at [email protected] when you have a moment. Excited to do business with you! HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!
> 
> Hey Luis! Hope all is well friend! GOBBLE-GOBBLE!!!!!!!
> 
> -Krista


Happy Thanksgiving to you too. If you can find old used functional printers those be the better choices. The newer model uses chip attached on the toner cartridge that keeps track of toner usage. Some older models counters can be reset to factory default and newer models do not.

I had reset my printer because it thinks the black toner is depleted. Since I swap transparent toner and black toner then print the image on second pass the printer keeps track of the toner usage of both transparent and black toner.

Go to http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/forums/laser/33634 and find the models that can be reset.

If you are going to mix inkjet, preferably sublimation, and laser printer you only need one laser printer with transparent toner. The toner can stay permanently on the printer if its sole purpose is to transfer self weeding image from dark laser transfer in combination with inkjet printer as I have done here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t450257.html

Good luck.


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