# Are you cutting down on your advertising/marketing spending?



## PleaseDressMe (Sep 5, 2008)

Curious to know if you guys are spending less on advertising / marketing these days?


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## kooldog (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

Isn't everyone...everything keeps going up excecpt our profits. One word Resession.


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## Robin (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

no, not really. We dont do any ads in the papers and what not. We just put up a new banner and we are working on a new sidewalk sign. I found we do better without the advertsing in papers. We may as well take a match to our money......it gets us the same number of people.

Now is when you want to push yourself....get out there and seen. Everyone else is tightening up the purse strings. Make sure you get seen....and it can certainly be done on the cheap!! When everyone rides out the storm, they will remember you!


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## Dan K (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

Geez, I could go on and on about this one.

I agree with Robin, don't waste your time and money on any print ads. They do not work in this industry, at least they do not work for us, and I have learned the same from many other printers and businesses in our industry. We placed a phone book ad consisting of line entries in 5 categories, a business card size ad on a couple pages and listing on their website, at a decent price, to run for a year, and we have not received one hit from it in 9 months and will not renew it. Other printed ads have done absolutely nothing for us.

The best marketing is online, walk ins for local businesses, chambers of commerce gatherings, etc. Of course as always word of mouth too...

Keep online marketing up, and spend money on it!!!

This is the time that you want to increase your spending on marketing!!! Let me repeat with emphasis, THIS IS THE TIME TO INCREASE YOUR SPENDING ON MARKETING!

The first quarter of every year is the slowest, and January is rapidly approaching. Start your marketing now in preparation for that.

Also market heavily through what looks like it's an honest to goodness recession coming our way. This seems like the time that you would want to be pinching marketing pennies but it is not. Pinch in other areas, but spend spend spend on marketing. Why? You want to drive in business NOW, you want to drive it in and bring it in when fewer people may be looking for you and more people are wary about spending money. There are industries and customers out there who will weather the recession and will have money to spend through it. Find them and go after them.

In addition to that, if you can survive the recession, when it is over, your really going to boom. There are many reasons for this. You may have local or nationwide competitors who may not survive. We may see many shops close their doors. What happens to you if you've marketed your way through a recession, kept your head above water, and 5 other print shops in a 5 mile radius around you (we're in a super competitive area, and there are 3 times that number around us) have shut down? Well, during and after the recession, some or much of that business is likely to be yours.

Capitalize on this, read a lot, learn what other successful companies in any industry have done in times like these. This is obviously a time where people are worried about the economy. Stay confident in yourself and your business and market with the mind that you will be better and bigger and stronger if you weather the storm!

Best of luck to all of us!


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## Robin (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

Awesome post Dan!! You said it alot better than I did lol


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

Dan thanks for the great post.
I agree with both you and Robin that print ads just don't seem to work (at least not for me)
I placed ads a few times and never got one call. (now the guy stops every week, can't get rd of him. you would think me saying no everytime he would give up )


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

Spending less??? I've never spent any All I've ever done is put a vinyl sign on the back window of our Jeep and got a free online yellow page ad. Can't say we've seen any signs of a recession, I just ordered another embroidery machine to handle the load. And that doesn't include the upswing for the holidays that are just starting to flow in. Guess we are one of the lucky ones. The only other marketing we do is to make a cap, t-shirt, cup, etc. with a companies logo on it and send it to them, and we don't need to do that very often.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*



PleaseDressMe said:


> Curious to know if you guys are spending less on advertising / marketing these days?


I guess spending less on marketing/advertising would only apply if such promotions do not work. In this case, it would be better to stop or improve the ads or look elsewhere to promote.

on the other hand, something needs to be done in order to expose a product, be it word of mouth, radio ads, web or whatever works. No one will know about your product if you dont market/advertise it. 

Of course all businesses are different and what may work for one may not work for another...for obvious reasons. 

But, I for one do believe that marketing/advertising when done right does work and it is a necessary element of any business operation.

...jut my onion. 


:


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*

Great post, Dan. I think people really underestimate the effectiveness of a well designed website. It pays itself back year after year.


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

We always cut down in January and February. Only because that is the slow season for us.


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## Dan K (Nov 15, 2006)

Thanks Rodney... 

Funny, because I bumped into the Yellow Pages salesperson whom I canceled that ad with at a gas station after lunch today. A couple of months ago he called to ask if I would renew it, and I said no thanks, and he said he'd come by the next day for me to sign cancellation papers. He showed up with his supervisor who seemed determined not to let the sale go and had a new contract all drawn up, but no cancellation papers. I tried to keep cool (I was, am, very busy and don't have much time for heavy sales people) but I'm sure I appeared maybe a little frustrated, but I made it clear we would not be renewing and asked for the other paperwork to cancel. I felt bad because I never want to be a jerk, but I may have been a little short with him or his tactics at least.

Anyway, the guy who was not the boss sounds like he's going to order some shirts from us. He's printed before and already has a small line. He was impressed with the samples he saw in our office that day and will be by tomorrow to talk about an order...

So did that yellow pages ad work after all? Was I not as much of a jerk I thought I was? Do our samples outweigh a short response to his boss? Who knows, but it's always good to keep your cool, never get too short, because you never know who your next customer could be!


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

We Dropped the yellow pages adds a couple years ago for our screen printing business. I think its old and out of date most people use google to find us. They even gave us a tracking number to see how much business we got from it and we where right not much. Pluss it cut down on the one shirt phone calls a little since we do have a minimum of 12. Still have adds on cable tv and radio so i have to tell about 20 people a day that we dont not have nascar shirts and dont print just one lol but its all part of the game i guess.


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## leadergrafx (Sep 29, 2008)

Simply put: EARLY TO BED - EARLY TO RISE - WORK LIKE H--L AND ADVERTISE!
In some cases it's not how much you make, it's how much people think you make that drives them to want to do business with you. I agree with keeping your productive lines of advertising rolling and people will view your company as solid in a weak economy.

Rick


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Exactly, keep advertising. We don't advertise traditionally. Our advertising dollars are $0 but strong.


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## killerbeame (Oct 30, 2008)

That's so awesome so many of have spent nothing on advertising. My husband and I were having this debate.. will PPC ads increase in average cost per click or go down. I suspect ads will increase.. what do you think?


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## leadergrafx (Sep 29, 2008)

hello

i do not have personal experience with pay per click but a friend of mine does in a big way. I would not think it will go up because the competition is getting more agressive. this friends shop does 10 million dollars a year. he is a offset printing house with alot of large corporate accounts. this summer when I stopped in to see him, they were making instruction books for gerber infant seat. Millions of them in every language where they are sold. he started in 1986 with one manual press. he only turns his ppc on when they are slow and says that the 1 or 2 days a week it is active they generate big business. he says he bids on ppc with the highest bidder getting on. With advertising budgets getting more conservative these days it may even start going down considerably. it really works for them. 

Rick


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## gorilladuck (Jan 28, 2008)

This has been one of the best threads I've read in a while. It's pretty much exactly the advice I needed to hear at the moment. Just when I was thinking I would have to scale back my marketing budget, I now see the advantages in being persistent. Particularly the idea that even if customers can't buy much now, they'll remember you later if you advertise consistently through this. That was something I was wondering about. Thanks, everyone!


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## Q. (Nov 30, 2007)

I just got started, went live last Thursday. I've been making friends the organic way, but will begin paid advertising soon.


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## tqualizerman (Dec 9, 2006)

The mistake a lot of companies make, even huge ones, is that they cut back advertising during economic crunches. We do a lot of work with advertising agencies (unrelated to shirts) who are currently frustrated due to the slashed budgets they are getting for the next quarter of advertising. I guess one good thing is those who persist with their advertising during times like these may be taking advantage of a chance to elevate their business to the next level, even if it means cutting margins a little for the time being.


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## FieldDress (Nov 3, 2008)

Its time to advertise and self-promote within reason. Even more so, time to get creative. For my company the blogging community and podcasts have been a great resource. They are always looking for content and promotions to post about. I can't tell you how amazed I've been just asking for "help" and the responses I've received.


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## anonimol (May 7, 2008)

FieldDress said:


> For my company the blogging community and podcasts have been a great resource. They are always looking for content and promotions to post about. I can't tell you how amazed I've been just asking for "help" and the responses I've received.


Chad,can you tell me which bloggers like to write about novelty stuff?Do you pay them for that?


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## WearMagic (Oct 31, 2008)

We have not cut back one bit, still printing our full color catalog as well.


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## EnMartian (Feb 14, 2008)

Keeping your advertising strong during tough times has a double benefit. You'll be out there while your competition is pulling back so your ad will have less competition. Plus when times get better (and they will) you will have a jump on your competition because you will already have top of mind awareness with a lot of people. 

Keep in mind that advertising doesn't necessarily have to print or television. One of the best forms of advertising for printers and embroiderers is wearing your work. You can also do things like join the local Chamber of Commerce or other business networking groups. Don't forget press releases as well. If you get a new machine or hold a class write a release about it and send it to the local papers and television stations.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

anonimol said:


> Chad,can you tell me which bloggers like to write about novelty stuff?Do you pay them for that?


Read here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-marketing/t41817.html

And this should help: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-marketing/t29995.html


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## anonimol (May 7, 2008)

Wow!Amazing list of awsome links!Thank you Rodney!


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## jack2008 (Nov 24, 2008)

Keep online marketing up, and spend money on it!!!


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## proprint1 (Aug 20, 2007)

Cutting down would not be smart, but selecting which one to lower is a better, The biggest mistake would be to cut on advertising when the business needs more sales, rather the funds should be sent more prudently.


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## triguy31 (Oct 24, 2008)

PPC ads will most likely remain as they are if not rise a little bit. 

Another tactic is sponsoring a local high school or Park. This is a good way to get your name out there and build community relations. Get involved with a local team, goodwill will go a long way in this economy! 

Rob


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

It should be noted that every post in this thread refers to t-shirt companies that provide a printing service...
this information is mostly irrelevant for pre-printers and those selling their own designs online.


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## kindred (Jun 13, 2007)

we did banners and advertorials but the best budget dollars were spent on two things

1. SEO
2. google adwords

we eliminated banners and advertorials and now do adwords and submit to blogs reviews.


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## Q. (Nov 30, 2007)

kindred said:


> we did banners and advertorials but the best budget dollars were spent on two things
> 
> 1. SEO
> 2. google adwords
> ...


I have not met with any AdWords success yet. You were able to achieve a sufficient conversion percentage?


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## SimplyTopUK (Jan 10, 2009)

Our marketing budget is going up, its best to atract new custoemrs in time like these to keep them in the good times, even when they come lol.


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

I started giving away t-shirts about 2 years ago. I mainly sell transfers. Here what I do if I have a print that is selling slow take that print and put it on a t-shirt along with my business name on the shirt that I printed the shirt. Also I have also gone to a small club of around 30 to 40 people and give them a t-shirt with their club on the shirt with my business name that I printed the shirts. a lot of the time these clubs will come and buy more shirts, caps, or what ever they need. I have also printed shirts with my business name and website address on them and went walking around and handed them out. In the last 2 years I have given away 700 t-shirts and I get to see a lot of them still advertising for me.


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## Zitro (Jan 27, 2008)

selzler said:


> I started giving away t-shirts about 2 years ago. I mainly sell transfers. Here what I do if I have a print that is selling slow take that print and put it on a t-shirt along with my business name on the shirt that I printed the shirt. Also I have also gone to a small club of around 30 to 40 people and give them a t-shirt with their club on the shirt with my business name that I printed the shirts. a lot of the time these clubs will come and buy more shirts, caps, or what ever they need. I have also printed shirts with my business name and website address on them and went walking around and handed them out. In the last 2 years I have given away 700 t-shirts and I get to see a lot of them still advertising for me.


We actually pumped up our marketing. We also make up shirts just to giveaway and it's worked pretty well so far. I also do ad words but haven't really seen anything worth while come of it.


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## gorilladuck (Jan 28, 2008)

Stumbleupon has definitely helped boost my traffic, and I think lately it has been leading to sales. I'm not just participating in their community, but I've also started a campaign as an advertiser. The best part about their program is that you can be very specific with who you target. Their cost is $.05/ click, but you end up getting more traffic than what they charge you for. They make it very easy to manage your budget, and you can literally pay for as much as you want per day. Right now, I'm only doing about $10/day because that is all I can afford.


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

Like I posted earlier I give away t-shirts with my addvertising on them. Sat. & Sunday we had a hockey tournament in town. I print 12 shirts with hockey mom and 12 hockey dad on the front and my addvertising on the back and gave them away this weekend and this morning a business men came in to the store. His son played in the tournament. They live 200 miles away from here. Well anyway he place an order for $3000 shirts, caps, can koozies. Thats the kind of addvertising that works when they tell you they seen one of your shirt thats whey he came in.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

cuush.com said:


> It should be noted that every post in this thread refers to t-shirt companies that provide a printing service...
> this information is mostly irrelevant for pre-printers and those selling their own designs online.


Actually, this information (about advertising your business) is relevant to anyone who wants to increase their business. Some topics like this cross over pretty relevantly.


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Actually, this information (about advertising your business) is relevant to anyone who wants to increase their business. Some topics like this cross over pretty relevantly.


The entire first page of this thread was not relevant to pre-printers, which is when I wrote that.
The last two pages have gotten more mixed answers...some of which are now relevant, some of which are not.
Glad I had to read the one's that are NOT.

Comments like "*join the local Chamber of Commerce or other business networking groups*"...
I really implore all pre-printers to do things like this, it's not a waste of your time, it doesn't make this thread confusing and it's certainly something you should worry about while you're trying to gain a foothold in this extremely precarious business.

Good advice. All pre-printers should take it.


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## Ecoprintworks (Dec 3, 2008)

killerbeame said:


> That's so awesome so many of have spent nothing on advertising. My husband and I were having this debate.. will PPC ads increase in average cost per click or go down. I suspect ads will increase.. what do you think?



I think that there is no doubt that competition for - and therefore cost per click advertising will rise as we move forward. So many people enter the industry every day - that coupled with rising internet adoption will lead to more bids on the same amount of words. You've all seen supply and demand curves... the result? Higher prices.

PPC campaigns may still be effective. However, I would advise to be wary of sinking too much money. If you do begin a campaign, vigilantly track your results with particular goals in mind - that may be sales, page views, etc. But know where that money is going.


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## jah9484 (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: Are you cutting down on your spending?*



Dan K said:


> Geez, I could go on and on about this one.
> 
> I agree with Robin, don't waste your time and money on any print ads. They do not work in this industry, at least they do not work for us, and I have learned the same from many other printers and businesses in our industry. We placed a phone book ad consisting of line entries in 5 categories, a business card size ad on a couple pages and listing on their website, at a decent price, to run for a year, and we have not received one hit from it in 9 months and will not renew it. Other printed ads have done absolutely nothing for us.
> 
> ...


Good review don't worry about the recession, (I'm not saying be foolish) Focus on your companies goals. We see recession on TV and we walk, talk and think recession. Many are out of jobs true enough but now is the time to offer Discounts and specials up the wazoo!


Thx for the post


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## Allurre (Jan 1, 2009)

I haven't spent over $100 throughout my first year on ads... 

Use FREE methods to advertise online.. that gives you a lot of leverage.


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## Natitown (Apr 17, 2006)

gorilladuck said:


> Stumbleupon has definitely helped boost my traffic, and I think lately it has been leading to sales. I'm not just participating in their community, but I've also started a campaign as an advertiser. The best part about their program is that you can be very specific with who you target. Their cost is $.05/ click, but you end up getting more traffic than what they charge you for. They make it very easy to manage your budget, and you can literally pay for as much as you want per day. Right now, I'm only doing about $10/day because that is all I can afford.


Are you seeing a $10 a day return in sales yet?


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## gorilladuck (Jan 28, 2008)

Natitown said:


> Are you seeing a $10 a day return in sales yet?


So far, not in January, but the gap seems to be closing. I think the increase in traffic is worth $10 a day, though.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

500 bucks in google adwords ... clients I got from it zero clicks in the thousands and they are trying to charge me 200 bucks when I canceled Ha I aint paying those suckers because I set it to limit I will pay and they went over err....

Craiglist been working really good and its FREE, do ads in classifieds those are cheap and people read, go into forums or chatrooms and mention to people wheat you do "no solicitating" well here anyways Lol


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## Q. (Nov 30, 2007)

mrbigjack50 said:


> 500 bucks in google adwords ... clients I got from it zero clicks in the thousands and they are trying to charge me 200 bucks when I canceled Ha I aint paying those suckers because I set it to limit I will pay and they went over err....
> 
> Craiglist been working really good and its FREE, do ads in classifieds those are cheap and people read, go into forums or chatrooms and mention to people wheat you do "no solicitating" well here anyways Lol



Craigslist - I need to give that more of a chance.

My experience with AdWords was much the same. Perhaps I could have done it better (definitely). But all the same, AdWords is a traffic driver, but you can't make the numbers work with the conversion percentages you'll get.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I done very well with craiglist, I had a friend make a Html listing for me with picture ect.
Google has it come up when people did searches so it all good


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## Q. (Nov 30, 2007)

mrbigjack50 said:


> I done very well with craiglist, I had a friend make a Html listing for me with picture ect.
> Google has it come up when people did searches so it all good


Do you make Craigslist postings in multiple cities? I tried to post the exact same thing, with the same reply email addy, and Craigslist rejected it.  I assume I could definitely post in multiple cities by using different email addresses


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Here are a few tips i learned over time

In the Service section, you can post 3 service under 1 email ever 12 to 24 hours
Have multi. email and phone numbers because they call you to validate you

when making post, reword things around, add spaces, so 20 words are different or in addition or else it will say it looks similar 

I post in creative service/event alot and works out pretty good

Make head line appealing, make them wanna click on your listing and word it in away that it is generic because it will come up on googles top searches if done correctly 

I love your shirt, you need to just post fliers and decal near colleges and high schools ....
having your designs all over place will make it an icon and popular, wear clothing line with a blurb that says where to get it, go to bars, clubs and hand out a few so people push your line with an ad on shirt saying website... 

post stuff on collegehumor.com and other sites like that, you need to approach people who will like your stuff


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I was watching ovation channel "art channel cough" and there was this kid that did street art and made it big because he would put sticker of her art everywhere and than galleries wanted to have him and came up in news ... becareful when doing this because can be considered littering in certain cities depending if you stick on goverment property


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## Q. (Nov 30, 2007)

I have heard that FatWallet can drive traffic for free - anyone ever been featured on it?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I love everyones idea's, thinking outside the box is the way to go. Many people don't add their names and numbers on the labels, or on a hanging tag on their clothes. We mainly print promotional apparel, and have left off our business cards. Just think of the thousands of clothes we've all sold, and many have left off their contact information. 

One idea I have is to use a glossy or UV business card with information on both sides. I then attach them to the t-shirt with string or label gun. Many of our customers give the t-shirts away, and the label is a business card so they can put it right into their wallets. 

We also started offering business cards and print services. We usually do 1,000 for $55, both sides with UV coating too. Remember if you do this the Artwork is extra so have your artwork completed before sending it to the printer.


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

mrbigjack50 said:


> I was watching ovation channel "art channel cough" and there was this kid that did street art and made it big because he would put sticker of her art everywhere and than galleries wanted to have him and came up in news ... becareful when doing this because can be considered littering in certain cities depending if you stick on goverment property


Are you talking about Shephard Fairey (OBEY)?

His brand has gone from 'street art' to 'global cult legend' in about 10 years...
I remember walking the streets of Vancouver, BC and seeing "Andre The Giant Has a Posse" stickers on telephone poles.

Now he's best known for creating the Obama "Hope" posters.

His propaganda art is incredibly eye-catching and was bound for success...
I haven't seen anything like it in all genres of art (t-shirt, album covers, posters, etc).

My point is, he's not the best example to follow...
unless your art is on the same striking level as his,
which is prodigal.

Otherwise, you just end-up being a graffiti artist.
('Banksy' being the exception)


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Yup that is the guy Lol


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

mrbigjack50 said:


> Yup that is the guy Lol


hehe...yeah, well that last one used to be a great idea.

Even so, thanks for all the other tips...good stuff!!


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

No problem : )

I try to give back to the site when I can..
Haven't been on as usual because busy with so many projects...

Gotta do 4 framing jobs and a shadow box for 3'x5's flag, menu board, banner, magnets Ah long day


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## Fresh Mode (Apr 9, 2008)

We are increasing it. Internet marketing only.


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## diane143 (Nov 17, 2006)

How many keywords are you averaging on adwords? I do signs, auto graphics, shirts, promotional items and just upped to 151 keywords.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

adwords screwed me over err. they were suppose to stop charging at 200 but went to 365
Be careful


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## diane143 (Nov 17, 2006)

I've had it for a few months and so far so good with the cost. Before I did adwords I also did something that got me on the map, which generated a bunch of sales as well without the cost.


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

mrbigjack50 said:


> adwords screwed me over err. they were suppose to stop charging at 200 but went to 365
> Be careful


Adwords can be properly controlled, you just need to spend the time to learn every feature. 
That's why there's thousands of Adwords training products out there to learn from (not to mention Google's incredible help files).

PPC is an art and a science...
and it's changing constantly as bids get higher, arbitrage games get discovered (and then banned), 
new features are released (that allow you to turn your account on for 1 hour, anytime of the day - for example), 
choosing between text ads, banner ads, television ads, radio ads, etc.

There are so many variables (and growing), you never know what's gonna work for sure...
but at the very least you can control the interface to run your account the way you want it to run.

It's a new form of marketing, in it's first 10 years of success...
it's established among marketers now, but it's also extremely volatile and unpredictable. 

It's a brand new baby.

PPC should not be taken lightly (like the stock market)...
you don't just buy stocks on a whim and hope for the best, 
you really need to educate yourself and learn to do it right.

Otherwise, you just end up gambling your money away.

EDIT: Pay-Per-Click doesn't always work for everyone...
I've had multiple businesses that I've tried with Adwords/Overture...
some of them worked out great, others were a dismal failure.

It depends on your products, your price, your keywords, your market, your pitch, your website design, and a billion other things.
You really need to consider them all before spending money on PPC advertising.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Issue with adwords is, people can mess with you and click on Ad for no reason.....
I do agree though, it is good invest if you selling something which is a specialty product but generic stuff like ie. Garment/printing is a hit or miss deal when you got huge multi million dollar companies that can under cut you by half and still make a profit..

Best advertising is word of mouth and its free : )

Phone book.. pricey for good ad but a invest that will last for years because people keep phone books longer than a year typically.

A good and well design website which is SEO so comes on top 10 search in Google


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

mrbigjack50 said:


> Issue with adwords is, people can mess with you and click on Ad for no reason.....


Click Fraud.

Yes, it's definitely an issue that exists...but it's not that big of deal for people like us.
Do you really have online enemies that would waste their time each day on tactics like that. Personally, I don't.
I think most people are too busy with their own business to pursue click fraud, diligently.

I tend to think what you're talking about is mainly relegated to lawyers and dentists...
they pay like $50/click and they think they can damage their competition by clicking on their ads.

But there's a fatal flaw with that tactic...
if you click on the same ad from the same IP address more than once, 
Google tends to treat that as click fraud...and they refund the cost of the click.

Google is actually very good at being "fair"...
the other PPC companies (Yahoo, MSN, etc) not so much.

Google is almost ridiculously smart...
they know exactly what's going on with their business at all times. 
Nothing with them is an accident.

I still don't trust them mind you, but out of all the companies...
they are the most customer-conscious.

Ultimately, most PPC horror stories boil down to "user-error"...
as is the case with most any horror stories.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Wow, that's good to know.


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## fwendly (Mar 3, 2009)

cuush.com said:


> Click Fraud.
> I think most people are too busy with their own business to pursue click fraud, diligently.


You'd think so wouldn't you? my old boss would spend one day out of every week "running errands". we later found out he was going to various internet cafe's and clicking on competitors adwords ads, and googling his own website.

He was a rational guy too, so I can't imagine he's the only person doing that...


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

fwendly said:


> ...googling his own website.


LOL...I think that says it all!

But you're right...
there's always someone out there that thinks they _wrote_ the book,
when they haven't even _read_ the book.

Even so, each internet cafe likely uses a single cable modem (or two) for all their computers = one IP address.
So even if he could hit 10 cafes in a day, it only amounts to a few dollars.

There's more serious click fraud to worry about from strangers in foreign countries, doing it professionally...
they're hired to drive up "industry" click costs so there's more payout on the Adsense side. 

For example, if you knew that t-shirt industry keywords were about to get more expensive in Adwords, 
wouldn't you be starting a network of blogs that host Adsense ads, so you could cash in on the high payouts?

Yeah, there's always somebody trying to fix the game.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

If you use AOL, each pageload comes from a different server, how does Google avoid click fraud with them?
AOL is a bit of a pain.


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## LisaRole (Jan 30, 2009)

I think it all actually depends if the advertising you have is working as it is expected or not. Cause a lot of advertising companies says they will do this and that but in a long run there's too less output they are only giving. So better choose wisely.


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

PositiveDave said:


> If you use AOL, each pageload comes from a different server, how does Google avoid click fraud with them?
> AOL is a bit of a pain.


Good question, AOL does have some crazy proxy thing going on...
but AOL knows exactly who everyone on their network is, and they know what everyone is doing...
so if they know, it's possible for Google to know.

Proxies are a pita, but they aren't completely anonymous. 

The company I used to work at, once caught a guy that hacked us and held our customer data hostage, for ransom...seriously. 
He used multiple zombies to jump into our network, thinking he had hidden his tracks well.
Our tech guru at the time, found this dude in minutes...we called the cops in his town, he was arrested before lunch, we had our data back for business the next day.

Good IP tracing software can track you back to your local IP...proxies are just stops along the way.
Besides that, there's other trackables likes the MAC address on your modem and other serial numbers (hard drives, ethernet card, browsers, etc).

Google has some of the highest internet technology in the world at their fingertips...and what (read: who) they don't already own, they can buy. 
I'm more worried about them being able to see me watching TV, then them having trouble with click fraud. 

Crime is always an issue...but again, it's not the little guy we need to worry about.
There's mafia out there. Who do you think does all the serious Music/Movie/Software bootlegging these days? 
They're also the one's creating massive levels of arbitrage and click fraud...among other "free offers", porn sites and ringtone scams.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

I worry about being protected from click fraud by the guy who benefits from the click. Google has an incentive to promote fraud!


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

btw - anyone worried about click fraud should try StatCounter Free invisible Web tracker, Hit counter and Web stats which flags up the clickee.


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## atlantatees (Sep 24, 2008)

how much does cable & radio ads cost in your area?


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## saleha86 (Mar 8, 2009)

with the slow on the economy it is worth while keeping an eye on the return on investment on those adverts which work and those that do not. But need to be more aggressive now and the fittest will survive in the current slow down


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## cuush.com (Apr 8, 2006)

saleha86 said:


> with the slow on the economy it is worth while keeping an eye on the return on investment on those adverts which work and those that do not. But need to be more aggressive now and the fittest will survive in the current slow down



If you're not closely managing ROI in all of your advertising, 
then you really shouldn't be doing ANY advertising at all.

Especially in the hard-knock PPC game...
it's one of the easiest ways to lose your shirt if you're not careful.

Bottom line, if you don't manage your ROI daily...
you may as well take that money to Vegas.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Best investment would be SEO.....
adwords won't mean shizzle if your website ain't up to par for selling
So they click to go to your site..but than they think it sucks.. and bam that was waste
Not saying your site is bad but make sure if they visit it, they wanna stay on it


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

A lot of people buy from us because we're local, when they search for us in our area. If people want to buy, the want to buy from a person. As the Internet continues to move to an automated system people like myself will have to include a shopping cart on their sites.


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## shundal86 (Apr 3, 2009)

we've cut back on advertising but most of our business is from repeat customers that still are loyal


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## PBScott (Apr 13, 2009)

I've certainly found recently that with so many people cutting back on advertising, that at least Google PPC is geatting cheaper.


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## GraduateClothing (Feb 22, 2009)

Im needing to put more into advertising. MUCH MUCH more! not getting the site traffic i would like to see.


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## KUSTOM _DUDE (Mar 6, 2009)

Our own sales are down a little at the moment, but we are rapidly increasing out range of products and developing new design and marketing strategies to make up the shortfall.

Don't think there are any easy answers in a recession, you just have to keep plugging away at the business and wait for the tide to eventually turn.


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## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

i havent really paid much for 'traditional' market...such as ads/banners/etc..

i believe in word of mouth and being involved with people to be the best type of marketing.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I have to agree with you on the involvment, but it never hurts to advertise. At least put your website on your car window, a few signs, a banner, and flyers. I know a guy that offers a great deal on banners, and signs, not to mention t-shirts. You can also make some less expensive t-shirts, and pass them around to people you know that will wear them around town.


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## purplepills (Apr 19, 2009)

Sorry if this has been said, but I run a small ad/design/dev studio and what I am noticing from clients are they are looking to advertise smarter. Or look for bigger return on ROI of ads. Also from my stand point, the bigger guys are losing a grip on the industry as people are looking for ways to save a buck on advertising so the little guys like us can squeak in, where once we wouldnt have even had a chance. And definitely I have noticed the web is becoming more of a factor than some lingering after thought.


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

I had answered earlyer that we are giving away t-shirts with our logo and a humous print on the front of the shirt well after 350 shirt given away my sales have went 3 times of last year. I'm now going to cut back from 100 shirts per month to 50 shirts but add 150 printed caps per month for the next 4 months and see how that works. I'm trying to do 5 times over last years sales. This has worked great for my store but the website is like it died just about no sales. Thinking of eaven shutting it down.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Selzler, who are you giving the t-shirts too? I was thinking of printing something for the military on the front of a t-shirt (one color), and on the back print our full color logo. The military would then sell the shirts to the civilian employees that work there, and we'd both get exposure. What do you think? I can also do the same for the High School.

Paul


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Has anyone trying printing on Plastic, like frisbies? I was wondering how hard it would be, and what type of ink would I use. I believe we only have to air dry it since it's plastic. 

Any thoughts?


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

selanac said:


> Selzler, who are you giving the t-shirts too? I was thinking of printing something for the military on the front of a t-shirt (one color), and on the back print our full color logo. The military would then sell the shirts to the civilian employees that work there, and we'd both get exposure. What do you think? I can also do the same for the High School.
> 
> Paul


 
I give the shirts away at schools and just walking down the street to anyone who wants one, also contruction workers. Or go to a boat ramp and give them to boaters.
Now I'm giving away caps the same way with sublimation photo print on them with printed by with our name. I have given away 20 now and 3 people came in to check out our photo items.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks Selzler, I was thinking I could do that or go to an event like a fair and give them away. The beach would be a great place too.


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## RenegadeMarketer (Jan 26, 2009)

People... Join Your local chamber of commerce. Get in a leads group... Start building stronger better relationships with the client base you already have. When was the last time you checked in on a customer with a phone call or an email without pitching a product just to say hi and catch up. Think about the people you like to do business with. Isn't it the guy who you know and trust. People buy from people they know and trust. While you are waiting for new people to come in off of whatever advertising you have going... why not "invest" a little face time with some of your past clients who like what you do. You have to be proactive in this... but don't always make it about YOU and your stuff. Take them to lunch. Get to know them. Start cultivating relationships with clients you like. Get beyond the transaction and really start to care. It's more about them and less about you. And don't forget to ask them for referrals. Who do they know that they would be happy to make an introduction to you. I know your busy, but if you don't cultivate your relationships with your clients...Your competitor WILL! 
Just my 2 cents. 
Never Give Up, Never Surrender!


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Good advise. We can also offer a free hoodie or something for a referral. People love freebee's.


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