# Need a template designed



## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

I need a rhinestone template (cut file) designed. It's a bit too complicated for my_ expertise. _It doesn't matter which part is outlined and which part is filled. I'd like it to be under 9" wide because my cutter only cuts up to 9" wide. Also, I'd like to use only ss10 stones, but will use some ss6 if I have to. The colr stones I will use is clear, red and gold. Please let me know if anyone can do it and how much you would charge. The file is attached

Thanks in advance


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

These are the types of posts I love to see and I'm interested to see what others with more expertise than I how they would approach such a design with their software that they use... 

At first glance I agree man this is a little complicated... But in reality it's exactly like every other design we do... Lines, Curves, Circles, Rectangles etc etc just more of them and put together in an interesting "complicated" way....

So when I approach this design I look at each piece, as it's easier that way... Anyone can do this design for you... But if you learn to fish you eat for a lifetime versus buying a fish and you eat for the moment and hope the next time you're hungry that you have money to buy another fish... LOL

My first thing to say is what you are looking to do can't easily be done given the parameters you gave... That's my gut just looking at the design... Without tinkering with the design a bit that's just my gut... 

These software companies with their rhinestone software it's exactly these types of designs that would be so helpful for us to see how you would approach such a design with each of their softwares...

This is "complicated" by most standards. Certainly more "complicated" than any of the video demonstrations I've see seen out there...

So please let me tell you generically how I would handle the design... I have not actually taken it into CorelDRAW and poked around but I will and post a video demonstration for you... Let's assume for a moment with have just a nice JPG... Honestly a vector version is really not that much better for my approach... Although if you have it I will take it.

Elephant... He would get a fill of ss6 in my design... Ss10 in that elephant I don't think would give you enough definition given the size restriction you have given of 9". For you to get the look you would want I don't think ss10would cut it... It's very easy to fill your elephant in CorelDRAW... Totally manual, No special button to pick to do it for you... But pretty easy to do... 10-15min job

Greek letters... I would try to do the gold in the letters in Citrine ss10 and the red outline in ss6 lt. siam...

If I can use a tiny bit of creative license on the layout... I would not have the greek letters overlap one another.. Personally I just think it would look better that way... The elephant leg over the top of the last letter on the right... I can live with that not a problem... 25min stoning the letters...

The ribbon... 5 min... Simple outline only... ss10 lt. siam so you don't have to deal with those pesky ss6 stones...

Now... The Delta Sigma Theta text... That's really the tricky part... Me I wouldn't do the text in Rhinestones... I think it would look far better and lots more legible and more true to the original design if we simply cut that nice detailed lettering out of heat press vinyl... They have some really nice golds of even gold holographic file that would look great with the rest of the bling on the shirt and maintain legibility.

The way I approach rhinestone designs really is not that much different that how I approach a design for embroidery... The client can want what they want... But we know with our experience what will work and what won't... Tiny text and design elements in embroidery is probably the most difficult thing we come across... Guess what?... Same is true with rhinestones...

I hope others with more expertise than I will jump in and give some insight so we can all better understand the various approaches... I really only know CorelDRAW... I've seen demos for WinPC Sign, OObling, Stone Cut Pro etc etc... But honestly I wouldn't have a single clue where to start on a design like this in those programs... I just haven't had a chance to understand them yet...

That's my nickels worth...

If you have the vector version I will take it and whip something up for you...

Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

I don't think you would like the vector version I have, because I created it in corel draw, which I'm sure you would get the same,but probably a better result. I use the outline detailed logo feature.

So, when you say stone by hand, do you mean just placing the stones one by one? Wouldn't that take a long time and it probably wouldn't look very neat if I did it that way lol.
I agree with you about the software, I'm so frustrated right now trying to find something that works.


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh, and Kevin, I'm interested in purchasing some of your Corel macros.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

I don't have any CorelDRAW Macros for sale... Maybe some day?... 

The problem with selling software... You have to support it!!! LOL Trust me I have a software business in another industry and spend all day supporting it, it seems... If you guys would only read the manuals and watch the video demonstrations it would be fine... But you don't!!! LOL But to be fair you have to have video demonstrations that show "real world" examples too... Without those we are all lost.

If you would go ahead and shoot me the vector you have... Then I can see what I can make do with...

The only part I would hand place is the elephant fill... Actually the look of handset stones the "random-ness" of it... Actually looks pretty neat... And no... Handplacing just the stones for the elephant.. just a few minutes not a big deal but then I do cheat a little as I have a macro that helps with that...

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

One other thing to point out... Someone created that artwork... You might press your customer if whoever created that for them has a vector version of it?... It very possibly could of been done in Photoshop or something like that as well and no vector version... But if it was done in Illustrator or CorelDRAW it would be nice to have a true vector version of it versus a traced vector version... Honestly for this a vector version isn't really going to get us far for my approach anyhow.

Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

It won't let me upload cdr or svg files on here.
No, the only version of it is in jpg. I originally asked for it in a psd file. My client doesn't mind the artwork being changed. Just wanted someting similar to the artwork.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Yup you have to zip... You can email to katruax[USER=26763]@TCA[/USER]express.net as well if you want?...

Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Ok, Here it is. I'm so excited to learn how to do this!! You are awesome.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

In this video we cover the basic mechanics of fishing... 

How to choose the right fishing pole for the type of fish you are after... We also cover the type of line given the type of bait you intend to use... Using too heavy of a test line with really light bait is just going to be a disaster... Then we have the type of reels... Bait Cast Reel, Spincast (Closed Face) and Spinning Reel (Open Face) All have their pros and cons... But it's where we begin in our quest to understand what we are doing...

So here it is... Delta Sigma Theta - Part 1 of 5!

Rhinestones with CorelDRAW - Delta Sigma Theta - Part 1 of 5 - YouTube

The next video... How to choose the right bait for the fish you are after and baiting the hook!

Enjoy...




Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Wow. Just finished watching. Working on the ribbon now.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

I love these types of things... Such a learning experience... What did I learn?... I hate this!!! LOL

What I think can be done and what can actually be done... Oh boy! What a difference... But you know building a house takes forever and you hate the process every step of the way and you may even threaten to divorce your spouse in the process but when it's all done and you're sitting in front of the fire... There is a certain amount of satisfaction when you can sit there as say... Honey we built this with our bare hands we should be proud of ourselves...

So it turns out that there is more to putting a worm on a hook and hope we get something... A LOT MORE.. Who knew?... My fishing guide went on and on and on and on... I dozed off like 3 times... I couldn't remember half what he said...

Well we showed the ribbon... That was pretty easy... Well this next part... WOW... It's not easy!!! But it's done.... This video however is just the foundation of the lettering... If you get thru it and you hate it as much as I do.. It being the process... Well you REALLY won't like the next one... Now when you're sitting in front of the fire at the end... You'll love it... But you're going to sure hate me till you get to that point...

Here's the laying of foundation for the lettering... I admit I probably took the most round about way to get there but I got there... And until someone shows me another way... It's all I know...

Rhinestones with CorelDRAW - Delta Sigma Theta - Part 2 of 5 - YouTube

You might want to have an energy drink before you watch this one?...



Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

It wasn't that bad, just alot of steps, but it was repetitious so, once you get the hang of creating the guideline and center point, the other letters were pretty simple. The Theta was the easiest. Your directions are really easy to follow.


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## GHEENEE1 (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks for posting this tutorial Kevin. Mike


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

So we motored out to sea... 186 Nautical Miles! Blazing heat... I thought for sure the Captain had lost his marbles... FINALLY we get there!... Drop anchor and what seemed like days go by.. we get a nibble... We reel it in after a long fought 3 HOUR battle... We landed it! Did I mention it took 3 HOURS to land this baby! WHEW! My hands and arms are like rubber!! Not to mention my eyes are about to pop out of my head!


We caught it all on tape too!... 5 part mini series to air soon... I will post with dates and times... You don't want to miss any of the action... It's riveting stuff!


Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Wow. That's beautiful. Can't wait to see the videos.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

I started doing Rhinestones on 01-07-12 I sent this image to SandyJo over at RhinestoneTemplates.com

She quoted me $30.00 for an outline and fill.. Roughly 6"by 6"... I thought not too bad... Client did go for it... But at the time I didn't know jack... I couldn't create it for her if I tried... Luckily she went with something I could do which was a design I had already purchased for $4.00.

But I do struggle a month later... Someone walks in with something crazy like this... Crazy in the fact they don't understand the process... Design... What a bugger! 3 templates to cut... Then you have to stone the 3 templates... IT'S WORK!

So on the design part what do you do?... This design took my about 3 hrs... I had no clue it would take that long... If I had it to create again I bet I could shave a good 30 minutes off... But we don't typically get to do designs twice... So we go with what our gut tells and make it work...

Honestly at a minimum... I would like to get $60.00 just for the artwork to create the design... And honestly I feel like that is giving it away!... I mean compared to embroidery files... That's a drop in the bucket so why do I feel guilty for charging that much?... This design for embroidery... I would charge about $120.00 for the design file...

So for those a little more in the know... What do you charge for a custom layout like this?

Kevin


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

this design is 8.33" wide x 6.97" high.
900-SS10 rhinestones


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Leg cramps said:


> this design is 8.33" wide x 6.97" high.
> 900-SS10 rhinestones


You are the grid king!... I was looking at your designs the other day and you have lots of grid happening...

Definitely a more simplistic approach to the same design.

My design has 1800 stones!... I guess it just depends really in the end what look you are shooting for...

Kevin


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

not sure what you mean by "grid".Im just using basic software.It does not have any fills.The secret rhinestone society (SRS)has told me a *new* player in rhinestone software is coming very soon so I am gonna upgrade then.


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

katruax said:


> You are the grid king!... I was looking at your designs the other day and you have lots of grid happening...
> 
> Definitely a more simplistic approach to the same design.
> 
> ...


I LOVE your end result Kevin. It turned out great!


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Leg cramps said:


> The secret rhinestone society (SRS)has told me a *new* player in rhinestone software is coming very soon so I am gonna upgrade then.


I wish they would hurry up and get here already! My goodness! That last design took a long time... It looks really good... But gees!

If you look at your elephant he's "griddy" lol.... Like the stones are all lined up in a line left to right in a grid like pattern. If you look at your slam dunk dude... Little dots all lined up in a row left to right like a grid...

Nothing wrong with that it was just an observation... You work with the tools you have and the time constraints you have... Here I didn't care how long it took... I wanted the best looking result...

I would love to see someone take this design into any software and produce the same results and see how it's done... I don't doubt it can be done but I don't think it can be done with this precision without spending a lot of time like I did on this one.


Kevin


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

Leg cramps said:


> not sure what you mean by "grid".Im just using basic software.It does not have any fills.


In Oobling I have a "grid" fill that looks like your elephant. It basically stacks stones directly on top of each other.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Here's a better look... I for sure looking at this would add the ss6 Citrine at the top and bottom of Theta... They will fit easily... I think the end design will look better.

Kevin


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

Are you planning to put the wording in the scroll?


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Krystle1981 said:


> In Oobling I have a "grid" fill that looks like your elephant. It basically stacks stones directly on top of each other.


Yeah and the Random fill in Oobling is semi awesome... It would make the whole elephant a lot easier than what I demonstrated...HOWEVER... When using the random fill with a tight stone placement like I have done... There is a TON of editing to do... I don't know in the end if it would be any quicker than what I demonstrated or if it was it wouldn't be a lot quicker... I have a stone grafting technique I use for random fills and it actually works pretty slick...

Kevin


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

I think yours looks great!I get what you mean grid now.I can take the object and inline it then fit to those paths.I know some software is easier to do this then others but yeah I do usually use the grid.I only use ss10 stones for my designs,although I could use any size for a customers requests.I have heard from many working with ss6 is a PIA. so I stay away from them.Plus keeping all the ss10 stock is expensive enough I wouldnt want to have to stock both.
what was the end dimensions of your design?


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Krystle1981 said:


> Are you planning to put the wording in the scroll?


I think that is best done with vinyl... It will hold true to the original design and I think it will be more legible than trying to stone it... It's a tight space and even with ss6 I don't think it's going to look too spiffy... That's what I would do anyhow as there are films that would look great with the stones... Plenty of bling on this without the text in scroll... But then I don't know what the customer asked for either..

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

So Krystle you have OObling... I only have the demo... This design... "Easy" to do with the program and get similar results... "Sorta Hard" or "You really got to put your thinking cap on?"

Honestly I wouldn't have a clue where to even begin with this design in Oobling and from what I've heard this is pretty much the problem with a lot of software out there... Simple designs... Easy... Easy to do in CorelDRAW too... But something like this... I am at a total loss.... I like to think I'm a smart guy and can figure things out but I'm totally stumped!

If I'm told hey it's complicated it's going to take some thinking no problem... But I keep looking for a magic button somewhere to do the thinking for me as I think that's what these programs are for? ONLY I CAN'T FIND THE MAGIC BUTTTON! 

So I'm left on the slow boat to China doing to "manually".

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Leg cramps said:


> what was the end dimensions of your design?


9.11 wide by 7.35 tall

Kevin


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'd rate this one at sorta hard. It would probably take me about an hour to do this one. I would start by vectorizing the image and filling the different sections separately. The neat thing that I like about Oobling is the ability to change fill patterns and spacing without having to plug in numbers. I use the up and down arrows until I get the desired effect I'm looking for.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Hey am I going to jail?.... I don't think so?... But someone just posted that I can't demonstrate this logo as it's a registered trade mark?... I see Greek letters everywhere?

Man I got to take it down before I even get it up?

I honestly never gave it a thought....

Kevin


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## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

Wow! Didn't know that!


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

The complete 5 part mini series is now available for your viewing pleasure...

CorelDRAW Rhinestone - DST - YouTube

3 hrs 44 minutes... LOL

I wish, wish, wish there were demonstrations like these available for the available rhinestone softwares out there so I could simplify my life... What I don't want to do is spend $500.00 - $2000 and still have to go into CorelDRAW... I want my Rhinestone software to be my Rhinestone software...

I tried vectoring this in Oobling... I didn't get very far at all before I gave up... LOL I can't say if it's the softwares fault or not.. I don't know anything about the software!... I'm just trying... There is one video I could find on vectorizing in Oobling... And honestly there isn't much to it... But what to do with it once it's vectorized... TOTALLY LOST and it seems to me like it would take an eternity to edit the vectorized image... But again I can't honestly say as I have no clue how to work it...

I hope someone that does could show us?...

Kevin


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

I took the image in Oobling and vectorized it.. very simple..

Posterize it
Sort colors... click black, click pallette, then click all black squares and then click merge
Do this for each color... in this image I ended up with 4..
After done, click vectorization and close...

You will have 2 layers.. click on top one and drag aside..
You can save your vectorized layer as an eps file so you can work with it again if you want to.


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

katruax said:


> Hey am I going to jail?.... I don't think so?... But someone just posted that I can't demonstrate this logo as it's a registered trade mark?... I see Greek letters everywhere?
> 
> Man I got to take it down before I even get it up?
> 
> ...


Delta Sigma Theta is a Registered Trademark and in order to reproduce their mark you must first be a Licensed Vendor, and secondly the artwork must be approved by the Organization prior to production. Will you go to jail for doing a demonstration? I doubt it. Will they say something, huuuuummmm it's a good chance as they are very protective of their mark. Vendors as well as members are encouraged to report violators and being that some of the licenses costs thousands each year, many vendors will report it in a NY minute. They will report you before the actual Sorority member will.

Yes you see Greek letter designs all over the internet but certain letters when grouped together as in this design is Trademarked.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

PlumCrazyGlitz said:


> I took the image in Oobling and vectorized it.. very simple..
> 
> Posterize it
> Sort colors... click black, click pallette, then click all black squares and then click merge
> ...


Yes the actual vectorization is really straight forward... It's what to do with the vectorization that I'm completely lost with...

Here's my demo... I call it clueless behind the wheel because I am... 90% of the problem is me I know it... But there just isn't a lot of examples to go by.

OObling Demo - Cluless Behind the Wheel - YouTube

It would seem there would be a fair bit of editing the vectorization results before you can actually stone anything?... 

That said it does a decent job of vectorization... When you're doing rhinestone layouts you can use pretty sloppy vectorization result and get a great looking design...

But to stone the ribbon for example... There's a fair bit of node editing there I think to stone out just the ribbon?...

Kevin


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

I am aware that Delta Sigma Theta is a registered trademark, however, this came straight from the organizatoion and it's members. I don't think we'll have any issues here. Moving on......


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## taricp35 (Dec 10, 2008)

I am the one that sent the message to Kevin that it "MAY" be an issue. I told him this in private as I did not want it on the boards but oh well. I just wanted him to be aware. You do what you want its your business, and as for it coming from the organization, that is not even an approved design because the Greek letters should NEVER be paired with the Elephant which is an Unofficial Symbol of the Organization. It is stated in the licensed vendors package which clearly you are not a licensed, and unless you are Licensed you can not reproduce it even if a member walked in and asked you to do it, but again it's your business do what you want! Keep moving on right off a cliff!


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Kevin,
I just want to thank you for the time you took to create these videos for us all. I've learned sooooo much. I actually downloaded them for future designs, because it's alot to take in. I hope that's ok b/c People are paranoid around here about copywrights,etc. I've been doing Greek letters for a while (screen printed designs), but just started stoning, and have NEVER had and issue or heard of anyone else having an issue. My husband is a member of a fraternity and we've designed so many (unofficial) shirts and there has never been an issue. So, like I said, moving on back to what this thread was about.....
I would suggest everyone take a look at his videos, even others he's created. They're very helpful when you get stuck on a design that your software just won't fix. He has a lot of tips and tricks to get around tough areas. But, I sure wish he would sell that nifty little macro his, however I know what you mean about being able to support it after selling it. Oh, well.
Thanks again, you're a really good person.

P.S. Thanks to the other people pm'd me offering to do the design for me as well. I love this forum!!

Here are the links to the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7A30ACDFF919142E






taricp35 said:


> I am the one that sent the message to Kevin that it "MAY" be an issue. I told him this in private as I did not want it on the boards but oh well. I just wanted him to be aware. You do what you want its your business, and as for it coming from the organization, that is not even an approved design because the Greek letters should NEVER be paired with the Elephant which is an Unofficial Symbol of the Organization. It is stated in the licensed vendors package which clearly you are not a licensed, and unless you are Licensed you can not reproduce it even if a member walked in and asked you to do it, but again it's your business do what you want! Keep moving on right off a cliff!


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## taricp35 (Dec 10, 2008)

jasmynn said:


> Kevin,
> I just want to thank you for the time you took to create these videos for us all. I've learned sooooo much. I actually downloaded them for future designs, because it's alot to take in. I hope that's ok b/c People are paranoid around here about copywrights,etc. I've been doing Greek letters for a while (screen printed designs), but just started stoning, and have NEVER had and issue or heard of anyone else having an issue. My husband is a member of a fraternity and we've designed so many (unofficial) shirts and there has never been an issue. So, like I said, moving on back to what this thread was about.....
> I would suggest everyone take a look at his videos, even others he's created. They're very helpful when you get stuck on a design that your software just won't fix. He has a lot of tips and tricks to get around tough areas. But, I sure wish he would sell that nifty little macro his, however I know what you mean about being able to support it after selling it. Oh, well.
> Thanks again, you're a really good person.
> ...


@jasmynn my private message to Kevin was never an attack on you. I never questioned whether you had the right to reproduce that design. Your name was never mentioned. When I saw the video on youtube it raised and eyebrow and I simply suggested and I quote _"DST is a registered trademark and maybe you might want to make the video private just in case"._ That is what my message to him said, I did not say don't help her or she is not allowed to do that because honestly I couldn't care less. I made the choice to send him the message based on an incident in 2005 when I opened my business. I made a look book with Greek Designs in it and mailed it out to see if I can drum up interest before paying out thousands in licensing fees. That same Organization slapped me on the wrist. That is when I was informed that Official Symbols should never be paired with Unofficial Symbols. First you say you got the design from the Organization, now you admit it is Unofficial, all the while, someone that tried to assist you has an unofficial, unapproved design demo of a registered trademark on the web for all to see. I'm done.....do you boo!


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Well, in that case, thanks for the heads up. There is just so much negativity on this forum at times. We get caught up in it sometimes. Anyway, appreciate the heads up. It may not be a bad idea to register with them anyhow.




taricp35 said:


> @jasmynn my private message to Kevin was never an attack on you. I never questioned whether you had the right to reproduce that design. Your name was never mentioned. When I saw the video on youtube it raised and eyebrow and I simply suggested and I quote _"DST is a registered trademark and maybe you might want to make the video private just in case"._ That is what my message to him said, I did not say don't help her or she is not allowed to do that because honestly I couldn't care less. I made the choice to send him the message based on an incident in 2005 when I opened my business. I made a look book with Greek Designs in it and mailed it out to see if I can drum up interest before paying out thousands in licensing fees. That same Organization slapped me on the wrist. That is when I was informed that Official Symbols should never be paired with Unofficial Symbols. First you say you got the design from the Organization, now you admit it is Unofficial, all the while, someone that tried to assist you has an unofficial, unapproved design demo of a registered trademark on the web for all to see. I'm done.....do you boo!


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