# Pessimistic view from a newbie



## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

Ok, so I have been lurking around this forum and a couple others for just a little bit. Reading, reading, and more reading to gather as much info as possible. This is my take on a start up getting directly in to DTG printing.

1)Commercial type equipment is very expensive. 
2)You are going to have issues with every machine regardless of name and money spent.
3)You must have, at a minimum, a working knowledge of graphics software.
4)You need a temperature and humidity controlled room.
5)The number of prints per hour is not accurate because of the downtime with maintenance and repairs.
6)Reliability of any of the DTG equipment is suspect at best.
7)You must figure in cost of replacing very expensive consumables, i.e. printheads, etc.
8)You cannot truly operate a DTG printer on a part-time basis beause it requires daily maintenance and use. 
9)Your residential garage is not acceptable as an environment to setup and use the equipment. 
10)Having the patience of Jobe is almost a requirement. 
11)Children should not be involved with this machinery. 
12)If you dont spend a load of extra cash on a pretreater you are most likely going to cost yourself even more money on a routine and recurring basis.
13)This equipment would not function well in a mobile trailer, like a concession type idea.
14)The machines are more finicky than a top bred race horse. 
15)Daily use is required. 
16)When you get your printer operational, your heat press will dump on you.
17)This is not an entry level market. 
18)When working properly, this is the top of the line technique to print to garments.
19)The brand and type of shirts to print on is huge but only a few will look right when the printing is done.
20)You are limited to the material you can print on. Like polyester vs. cotton.
21)Having to use white ink makes the print cost jump like our federal deficit.

I could go on. I hope noone takes any of these personally. This just seems to be the common and recurring issues with DTG when you read the posts. I, in no way want the manufacturers that are on this site to think I am attacking them. That is not my intent at all. Despite all of the issues above I will continue to research this market and equipment. My original interest was spurred by the idea of letting my five children get involved with this as a part time job for them and a way for them to earn money for college. Again, PLEASE, do not take any of this to serious. Hopefully everyone can see that there is some humor here also. Feel free to correct me on any statement and/or add your own pessimistic view to the list.


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## GraphixGuys (Jan 16, 2012)

Let me help with some of your notes here.

1. Somewhat. Like any print industry there are different levels of equipment. From 15k to +200k. Many different printers for many different needs.
2. This can be said for any machine regardless of industry. Same can be said about a car.
3. Very True if you want to get the most out of your machine.
4. Yes.
5. Most of the time the prints per hour is not accurate because of real world senerios like you taking a call or operator errors.
6. Not True, There are many printers out there that run every day and have minimum issue, but there are some lemons out there as well.
7. This can be said about any print industry.
8. Depends on what you mean by part time. I can print every other day and don't have issues. However, if you are just printing once every two weeks I would not invest in a DTG. Again I would not invest in any print equipment if I was only going to use it sometimes.
9. Probably not.
10. This is always helpful. Exspecially in any print enviorment.
11. Children should not be involved with most machinery. I wouldn't trust my kid with a 1,500 dollar car let alone a 20K machine.
12. Not true. I have never had a problem with pretreating manually. It takes some skill, but so does riding a bike.
13. It Could perform well given the right enviorment. You could have a controlled mobile trailer work just as well as a small office.
14. Depends on the machine, and the race horse.
15. Not required, but you will get the most out of your machine and inks.
16. See Murphry's Law
17. Spending under 40k to get into a business seems really entry level to me. You can't get into fast food for under 50k.
18. Not true. The best screen printers can blow DTG out of the water with some of the crazy inks and techniques that they can do. However, Screen print and DTG really are two different platforms and will not compare to each other.
19. People settle into brands they are familiar with that gives them a consistant quality.
20. Yes.
21. Yes. As long as you adjust your price accordingly this will not be an issue.

If you are wanting to have your children get into DTG you need to make sure they have the skill set for it. You might want to look into Heat Press method to get them into the garment industry. A small vinyl cutter, heat press, and a cheap printer to do transfers, is a very affordable way of making shirts.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

heres my take, give up white ink and buy a brother gt-341, life just seems so simple now.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

For the past several months, our dark garment printing has been nearly 90% of our business; I couldn't imagine giving it up!


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## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks Michael, I do not disagree with any of your input. My children are 2 x 11, 13, 14, 18. I think one of the 11yos is the smartest person in the house. I work a four on/ four off schedule so initially, at least, the machine would sit idle for four days at a time. I have approached a local kids group that has approximately 3000 shirts a year printed for their sports programs. I know there are shops that do this volume in a week, but I feel it might be a good starting point for the kids. I understand DTG is much better suited for short runs. If you are printing tshirts with unique front/back numbers, individual names on the back, and sponsor info also on the back would you consider that a very short run suitable to DTG? 
Based on what the group sell the shirts for now, and compared to what I "believe" I could print and sell them for allows almost $11 per shirt profit. (not including equipment cost or initial investment) That is based on what they are currently paying and would allow them to "profit" $1.75 per shirt. Money they are not currently collecting as they simply fill the teams and contact their printer and order what they need and act as a distributor for the printer. In other words, they do not make any money from the shirts now. I do have other contacts and opportunities to expand this for the kids if the printing end is buttoned up and rolling. Thanks for the input.


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## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

I forgot to include that I have asked three of the local printers what their volume of light vs. dark shirt sales were and they said it was 5 to 1 dark to light. That is most likely a reflection of the local schools and colleges that all use darker colors. You know if you use Texas Tech its going to be dark red or black!! Out of approximately 10 local printers I can only find one that offers DTG and they just were not interested in sharing any information.


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## GraphixGuys (Jan 16, 2012)

If you are going to be doing sport shirts then there are several ways to do them.

One common way sport shirts are made is in two parts, screen printing and heat press vinyl. You screen print the commom elements that would be on every shirt for a team like the logo and sponsors. Then you heat press the other elements like the names and numbers.
With this method there is very little in equipment investment if you subcontract out the screen printing part. In equipment you would need a small vinyl cutter and a heat press or two. In materials you would need rolls of colored heat press vinyl that you could cut names and numbers out of and heat press onto the shirts.
Using this method is cost effective as your material cost would be around 1.20 cents for 1 12" number and around .20 cents for a small 2" letter.

You could also DTG instead of screen printing, but I would still go with the vinyl numbers and names in some cases over DTG depending on the ink usage. If you where printing a blue number on a red shirt you would need a white DTG underbase and then the blue DTG ink. The cost for one 12" number would cost 1.00 to 2.50 in ink and pretreatment.

In some cases of a real small team, like 10-12 kids. Then it is commom for the whole shirt to be heat pressed. A simple one color design with heat pressed names and numbers can be a easy job and done quickly.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

(Another version of humor, but please don't take this as an attack on the original poster... just my thoughts being on the dtg side of things since 2006)

We can all sit back and wait for the technology to become more reliably and easier to use for any age group. By this time, the cost of the printers will drop dramatically to the point where you will find multiple printers in houses on the street in our own neighborhood. You will also see these printers in every Walmart, Costco, Target, Walgreens, CVS... type store as well. The prices one can charge will drop down dramatically that it will be even harder to make a living being a garment decorator and we will no longer be known as the cool people that can print on t-shirts somehow by the general public. But at least things will be easier!

Mark

P.S. What I just described above is what happened to the digital photography industry 10-15 years ago. Why would dtg printing be any different? Having some barriers to entry (i.e. cost, skill,...) in any line of work helps keep the competition down and allows for hard-working people to make a living.


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## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

I really appreciate people taking the time to visit and advise a person they have never met. I am glad that people act like adults and take my words for what they are and do not get offended. Cyber warriors are the reason I usually will not even post to a forum. 
Michael, again your help is greatly appreciated and will force me to open up to other ideas on doing the prints. My brother owns a vinyl sign shop so he will definetely be able to help with hardware and software on that side of things. 
Mark, you make an excellent point. I situation that never crossed my mind. You call it humor but it might very well be prophetic. It's funny that you mention _easy. _I am trying to structure a venture for my kids that will be in a controlled environment. The hardest part of the labor will be shutting the heat press. They could work around their own schedules, school, sports, music, etc., etc. My dad did the exact same thing for me except that it was working cattle, driving a tractor, building fence, baling and throwing hay, planting cotton, gathering vegetables from the garden, and getting up at 5 am just so you could say you were up at 5am. See it was almost exactly the same. Maybe I should just send these kids to their papas house and let them learn about real work!?! 
Thank you again.


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Kevin:

Take the orders. Don't buy the equipment. Contract it out to a company and make a little less, but still make the money on your connections.

If after some time you just can't bear the thought of someone else printing the stuff, and it looks like the business is still coming in like high tide, invest in the best equipment and training you can afford.

Start small and expand. Write a good business plan.

Good luck,

-M


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

littlefatbuddy said:


> My children are 2 x 11, 13, 14, 18.


Is this means they are all twin? If so it is coolest thing every man wants. I admire you even on 4 or 5. Children can damage machine(not big thing can go wrong)but they won't get hurt like heavy machinery or car. You are not fit to Dtg jungle yet. Just use fulfillment is your best choice for now. Find the machine you like and find who does service. These infos are in TSF. Nearest possible.
Someone will see greens in desert. Someone will see sands only. Someone will say it is impossible but winner will say it can be hard but possible. I am not try to talk you into Dtg jungle at all. I hope this is only time you found many negatives on any issue. Challenge is man's world. 
You are brave man. I was chickened out when have 2.
If I have 8 or 9 children(I wish and will feel rich) I want to show them what dad can do. Good luck on your future.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## DigitalMayhem (Aug 4, 2007)

Allamerican, talk like yoda you do. Awesome it is. 

Sent from my LTEvo


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

I had the first T-Jet in my house for over a year when they first came out and then first introduction of white ink as was working quite closly with the machine in developing the software back then.

My youngest son who has just gone to Uni and would have been 10-11'ish at the time sarted printing some shirts for his mates at school an ended up making a good little business at the weekends.

He is a smart kid, but never been that interested in computers, but it took him less than a day to work out how to use the machine and even when with the white ink it he picked it up over a weekend.
I guess he did have me to help out, but honestly he ran it 99% of time on his own at the weekend.

I never did any maintanece on that machine and it worked fine for about 14-15 months and then died eventually (and I mean I did none), sent it back and got a new one but kept it in the office (didnt have any choice the wife decided it was taking up to much space). 
Liam my son was very upset....

The main thing was the motivation and in this case it was the $$, you will be surprised what they can work out when they are motivated. But if they are not interested it wont happen and in my case it didnt cost me anything....

By the way Liam works in a bar for extra $$ at Uni now and I think if he had access to a T-shirt printer now, he would still rather earn his money in a bar as its more fun....he has done that.

A basic CMYK only no white really doesnt take a lot of maintanence (certainly no more than any solvent machine) and is as easy to use as almost any printer (easier than some roll feed desktop Epsons in fact). That is the eway to go if you want something that will be a minimum of hassle.

Best regards

-David


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## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

Marshall, money is not my main motivation for involving the kids. I want to be able to teach them steps of marketing, production, selling, software and hardware, as well as maintenance and upkeep. Heck, if was just for money I wouldn't involve them at all. I cannot think of a better way to make money than simply making phone calls and contracting out the printing. I would not have overhead, operation, or labor costs. IMHO many parents are failing their children by not instilling a proper work ethic and allowing them to have everything without any understanding of how they came to have it. Just my opinion.
I am afraid that some of you may be banging your head against the wall and saying, man this guy just doesnt get it. I agree that a CMYK machine would probably be much better suited for my ideas but the fact is in my market area blacks and dark navy colors are the leading sellers 5 to 1. 
Allamerican, no, fortunately they are not all twins!!!! Just the 11 year olds. 
Let's face it DTG printing is just plain cool. Some of the pictures people have posted are amazing. I believe that people (my children in this case) are more productive and motivated when they work and see a completed product. Like a tshirt, birdhouse, or ripe vegetables. Just my opinion.
Another line of thought, how many people have and operate these machines with little or no problems. David had a very good example. When I bought my first business the former owner told me to make every customer happy. A happy customer will tell their spouse about the experience; an unhappy customer will tell everybody they know and strangers too that it was not good. So maybe some of the experienced members here could start their own thread about how they love their machine and why? Wait, is that already on here?
Thank you everyone, I enjoy the discussion and advice.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Kevin,
It's time to cash in by kids you spend so much money on them already. Lol joke. 
I envy you so much. I only have 2. Even though I love kids. One son and daughter. Me and my wife had to work hardest since we are first generation of immigrant. No time and no money for food. I brought $153 to USA. No English(still don't) and no friends. However both my kids went to NYU and graduate as honor student. Now, my son work with me after working in lower Manhattan for 3yrs. He learned economy and international business. 
Now this is where I want to go. After one year of work in AA he said to me one day "Dad, I should not went to collage because I do not use anything I learned there" after all that money? Tuition only was $50000/yr. "I learn more here and by you". Dad's live education is value more than anything. I see your beautiful fatherhood. You want to teach them how to catch fish not give them truck load of fish. My father passed away when I was right before 10.
I wish I had father like you. I take my hat off for you. Whatever your plan with your kids should be nothing but success!  God bless your family. They can use optimistic attitude sometime and going to be very useful on their future.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you Peter.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

littlefatbuddy said:


> Thank you Peter.


My thanks to you is greater than yours. You are all father should be . I wish your best from all the bests. 
Looking forward to meet great DAD
Cheers! One day we will have beers and those are on me.


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