# dye sublimation advantage over dtg



## Bronxbomber1 (Jul 8, 2015)

I am new to the business and I am trying to decide if I want to go with dye sublimation or dtg. What is the big upside and downside to dye sublimation? Thanks TONS for any help you can give. NOAH


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## lvprinting (Sep 23, 2014)

Bronxbomber1 said:


> I am new to the business and I am trying to decide if I want to go with dye sublimation or dtg. What is the big upside and downside to dye sublimation? Thanks TONS for any help you can give. NOAH


Sublimation is only for 100% polyester. It will not work on anything else without washing out.

DTG can print on 100% cotton and some have had success with blends and polyester as well.

Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


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## marzatplay (May 25, 2014)

Also sublimation only deals with white 100% polyester garments. DTG can print on darks now, but white ink is cumbersome. Sublimation is limited vs colour DTG however the price to get started in sublimation is A LOT less.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

We do both. Dye sub wins almost every time. Dye sub will not fad out after washing , DTG will.
No color limits on either. 
Out source transfer and dye sub wins hands down as for as cost of entry.


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Don't forget all the hardstrates you can do with sublimation..


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## Bronxbomber1 (Jul 8, 2015)

thanks for the scoop. wicked appreciate it. since I am hearing that the cost of entry is low with sublimation in comparison to dtg, any ballpark thoughts on how much to get it rolling with a good sublimation set up?


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Depending on the type of setup you are looking for. if looking at Ricoh i would look at Conde or Coastal, if Epson i would look at Cobra Inks.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Bronxbomber1 said:


> I am new to the business and I am trying to decide if I want to go with dye sublimation or dtg. What is the big upside and downside to dye sublimation? Thanks TONS for any help you can give. NOAH


Both have their place soyou need both.....


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Just a thought. I have a dye sub setup and I print some things on it mostly for wholesale to some convention vendors. It more than paid for itself very quickly. I also have a DTG printer but I don't use it at all for material. It is set up as an eco-solvent printer. While my point here is a little off topic, ModernTreasures mentioned all the hard substrates you can print with the sub process and I thought it was worth an interjection. While what he says is true, without a lot more time and effort invested, you can only print on hard surfaces that are pre-coated. This does not allow a lot of flexibility. In other words, I can dye sub an iPhone case. Well so can everyone else with a dye sub setup. The only thing that makes you different is art and price. Not that the market is saturated at all but you are limited to what almost everyone else in the market is limited to. 

With my eco-solvent printer, I can pretty much print on anything. As long as it is generally light colored (prefer white obviously) and has a relatively flat surface, I have several types of pre-coat that I can coat with and print on it. As long as it is no taller than approx 4". for example, you can't dye sub drawer pulls. I have printed on hundreds of them and they are much better than any hand crafter can make. I have printed on dice, coasters, wooden chests, drawer pulls, light switches and outlets, decorative boxes, fake flower petals, hook rails, wooden letters, notebooks, keychains and more. There is almost no limit to what I can print on. Some of you will say that some of those things are available as sub options and while true, you cannot compare the price. I buy a switch plate cover for $.38 and sell the printed cover for $7.00 and can re-work them if I mess up. A sub switch plate cover costs about $4.00 and there is no re-work option. Plus I print directly on the screws as well. I also print directly on the outlets when I do the outlets not just the cover. 

My point is that a DTG printer opens up a whole world of possibilities that most people never think about. DTG, because of its very name, is normally only associated with printing t-shirts, I bought mine to print Minecraft blocks on blank dice and sold over 100,000 of them. Obviously switching inks back and forth would cost you ink but it might be worth it.

Sorry to go so far off topic but thought it might be a worthy interjection.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Your DTG printer interest me. What kind is it? How do you dry the printed product , fan ?


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Wow just typed for 15 minutes and hit some weird button combo that wipe it out. 

So to recap what I just typed: 

My printer is a Chinese A4 DTG based off of a 6 color R230 (R220 in the states). It has an adjustable height bed that will go up to almost 4" in height and down to a sheet of paper in thickness. The print starts losing resolution past about 5mm which is why I said mostly flat. For example, if you think about a piece of slate with the chipped edges, if it were painted white and coated, you could probably print to the edge without getting any fuzziness. 

I have three different coatings. One for plastic, one for glass/ceramic, and one for general purpose. I tend to use the GP one the most. I have also found that Krylon Crystal Clear will work on items with a porous surface like poker chips or coasters. The coating is applied using a small gravity fed HVLP gun and a 3 gallon pancake compressor from Harbor Freight. Super cheap. The coating itself is very cheap. I believe it was about $200 for 3 liters last time I bought it but to help put that in perspective, I can coat about 30,000 dice on all six faces with that much coating. I have stopped making Minecraft blocks so the last batch of coating I purchased has lasted me forever using it on the other stuff I coat. 

I use a small heater to dry the coating but it is not required. The coating will dry on its own in under 10 minutes. I use the same heater to dry the ink after printing but again it is not required it will dry completely in just a few minutes. The ink is MUCH cheaper than dye sub ink and it is scratch resistant, UV resistant, and water proof. It will come off with 91% alcohol though which can be a limitation. 

The whole process does not like high humidity. My home based shop only has an aging window unit air conditioner so it is very difficult to control the humidity so I tend to avoid printing on days when the humidity is too high. It will work but takes a little bit of finesse on those days where usually the system is very robust.

I have 2 holes drilled into the top of my printer bed that I use to positively place printing trays. I have a good friend with a CNC that makes my trays for me for high runners like dice and light switch covers. For smaller runs I will use a series of letter 'L's that I got from Hobby Lobby taped down to form a square edge or I will tape a piece of paper to the bed and print an outline then tape the item down to the paper. This method works well for things like wooden letters or Flip Flops. I have printed directly on Flip Flops from Walmart. A whole lot cheaper at about $2.00 than the $12+ ones you buy for dye sub. 

I have an ETSY store and a very small eBay presence. This is a hobby for me but it pays for itself and gives me some nice extra cash. I have almost exclusively eco-solvent items online. I have done quite a bit of sub work but haven't found the time to get it online yet. Most of goes to a couple wholesalers that do the sci-fi convention circuit in the South. 

Hope this helps. There are other sizes of printers but couldn't afford the larger one at the time. The next size up is based off the Epson 1430. Rarely has this been an issue for me. The only item I can think of that I wish I could print larger are hook rails. I can only do the small 10" ones not the much larger 16" and 18" 
ones. I could do them in a 2 stage print but that is risky with the alignment required.

One last note. No ICC files available for this process. I found some for an R230 a long time ago which I use but they are only close. With the vast selection of substrates available it would be difficult to have one for every occasion. Grays are a problem and I avoid skin tones but so far this has not been a show stopper for me. 

Let me know if you have any other questions. 

Sorry for the hijack.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Show me your store on ESTY,please.


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

Sacman said:


> Just a thought. I have a dye sub setup and I print some things on it mostly for wholesale to some convention vendors. It more than paid for itself very quickly. I also have a DTG printer but I don't use it at all for material. It is set up as an eco-solvent printer. While my point here is a little off topic, ModernTreasures mentioned all the hard substrates you can print with the sub process and I thought it was worth an interjection. While what he says is true, without a lot more time and effort invested, you can only print on hard surfaces that are pre-coated. This does not allow a lot of flexibility. In other words, I can dye sub an iPhone case. Well so can everyone else with a dye sub setup. The only thing that makes you different is art and price. Not that the market is saturated at all but you are limited to what almost everyone else in the market is limited to.
> 
> With my eco-solvent printer, I can pretty much print on anything. As long as it is generally light colored (prefer white obviously) and has a relatively flat surface, I have several types of pre-coat that I can coat with and print on it. As long as it is no taller than approx 4". for example, you can't dye sub drawer pulls. I have printed on hundreds of them and they are much better than any hand crafter can make. I have printed on dice, coasters, wooden chests, drawer pulls, light switches and outlets, decorative boxes, fake flower petals, hook rails, wooden letters, notebooks, keychains and more. There is almost no limit to what I can print on. Some of you will say that some of those things are available as sub options and while true, you cannot compare the price. I buy a switch plate cover for $.38 and sell the printed cover for $7.00 and can re-work them if I mess up. A sub switch plate cover costs about $4.00 and there is no re-work option. Plus I print directly on the screws as well. I also print directly on the outlets when I do the outlets not just the cover.
> 
> ...


wait so your saying you have a Eco-solvant printer and use eco-solvant inks and did change the head, tubes or capping station. there is no way your running that ink and didnt change all of that. and you need a heater to dry the ink coming out the printer


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

can you post a picture of this printer. please


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Dave, 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/SaccaStuff?ref=hdr_shop_menu

Que, 

I have been running this printer almost daily for 2 years. The ink I use is specifically formulated for the R230/220. I have had to replace multiple parts over the years including the entire printer base on 2 occasions. I put the wrong yellow ink in and it melted the nozzle on the head once. This is a very mild form of solvent ink. On the larger format printers it apparently uses the more aggressive ink. The yellow I bought that didn't work on my printer would eat into a piece plastic if I dropped a few drops on it mine won't. Each time I have replaced something, I get the parts directly from a used R220 I pick up off eBay for $25 - $50. This includes print heads which go in unmodified. The only piece on the printer that is modified is the Main Board which is modified in China and I have been unable to duplicate it. I have had a failed F2 fuse and transistor. The fuse I jumped out and the transistor I robbed off another printer. I don't have time to post a picture but here it is:

A4 mobile covering printer,plastic phone case printer for sales, View mobile covering printer, Magnetic Product Details from Qingdao Magnetic Digital Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com 

It's the black one in the back of the picture.


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Logo Jet makes a direct to substrate inkjet solvent and uv printer..the only downfall I see for small printers like myself is the cost of the machine as compared to sublimation.


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## logos unlimited (May 15, 2015)

great thread !


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes logo jet does but they are much more expensive than what you can get from China. My printer was shipped to me with 6 liters of ink (one each color) and 5 liters of coating for around $3000. While expensive, still a fraction of what logo jet costs.


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## Bronxbomber1 (Jul 8, 2015)

Sacman said:


> Just a thought. I have a dye sub setup and I print some things on it mostly for wholesale to some convention vendors. It more than paid for itself very quickly. I also have a DTG printer but I don't use it at all for material. It is set up as an eco-solvent printer. While my point here is a little off topic, ModernTreasures mentioned all the hard substrates you can print with the sub process and I thought it was worth an interjection. While what he says is true, without a lot more time and effort invested, you can only print on hard surfaces that are pre-coated. This does not allow a lot of flexibility. In other words, I can dye sub an iPhone case. Well so can everyone else with a dye sub setup. The only thing that makes you different is art and price. Not that the market is saturated at all but you are limited to what almost everyone else in the market is limited to.
> 
> With my eco-solvent printer, I can pretty much print on anything. As long as it is generally light colored (prefer white obviously) and has a relatively flat surface, I have several types of pre-coat that I can coat with and print on it. As long as it is no taller than approx 4". for example, you can't dye sub drawer pulls. I have printed on hundreds of them and they are much better than any hand crafter can make. I have printed on dice, coasters, wooden chests, drawer pulls, light switches and outlets, decorative boxes, fake flower petals, hook rails, wooden letters, notebooks, keychains and more. There is almost no limit to what I can print on. Some of you will say that some of those things are available as sub options and while true, you cannot compare the price. I buy a switch plate cover for $.38 and sell the printed cover for $7.00 and can re-work them if I mess up. A sub switch plate cover costs about $4.00 and there is no re-work option. Plus I print directly on the screws as well. I also print directly on the outlets when I do the outlets not just the cover.
> 
> ...


Thanks tons for the information- very helpful. Just curious why with a dtg you can not print on black cottons? I thought that was one of the advantages to dtg as opposed to sublimation. Can you clarify and also can you give me an idea of what a machine such as yours costs retail? In the end after going back and forth, I may end up going with dtg. Again, thank you so much for helping out a newbie.
NOAH


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

DTG can print on darks but it is not simple. In most cases, a 7 or 8 color printer is used where the extra channel is often a different black. For example, some epsons have a gloss black and a flat black channel. The 8th channel might be an aftercoating. One of those channels is replaced with White. The under image is first printed in white on the dark garment and allowed to dry. The second image is then printed in full color. In order to print like this you almost have to have a RIP software. There are tricks to get around it but I would not recommend it. A decent RIP is going to set you back at least $700. There are probably other choices and I'm sure others will chime in.

The need for a RIP is an interesting topic on these forums. Some will swear you need it for everything you do while others (myself) don't think you need it at all. RIP's were mostly created to allow professional imagers the ability to finely control color output by channel. For most of what we do, that kind of control is simply not needed. They will also allow you to increase the amount of ink laid down overall as well but again, never found the need for it. You can see where a pro would need to exactly color match Coke red where as you or I don't have to be that precise. 

To compare pricing, I got my entire sub setup including printer, inks and press for about $350. My DTG printer cost a little over $3,000. Now my sub setup is the absolute lowest you would be able to go. I have a Chinese press, got a used Epson 1400 and I use Chinese inks. What most people on here will recommend is going to cost you a minimum of about $600 and you will have enough ink to get mad when you run out and find out how much it costs to replace. I got 500ml of all 6 colors from China. 

DTG is expensive but worth it depending on your needs. There is a whole section of these forums dedicated to DTG. Something else to consider is that cotton shirts must be pre-treated before printing using DTG. I have never done it but have read many threads about it.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Sacman said:


> DTG can print on darks but it is not simple. In most cases, a 7 or 8 color printer is used where the extra channel is often a different black. For example, some epsons have a gloss black and a flat black channel. The 8th channel might be an aftercoating. One of those channels is replaced with White. The under image is first printed in white on the dark garment and allowed to dry. The second image is then printed in full color. In order to print like this you almost have to have a RIP software. There are tricks to get around it but I would not recommend it. A decent RIP is going to set you back at least $700. There are probably other choices and I'm sure others will chime in.
> 
> The need for a RIP is an interesting topic on these forums. Some will swear you need it for everything you do while others (myself) don't think you need it at all. RIP's were mostly created to allow professional imagers the ability to finely control color output by channel. For most of what we do, that kind of control is simply not needed. They will also allow you to increase the amount of ink laid down overall as well but again, never found the need for it. You can see where a pro would need to exactly color match Coke red where as you or I don't have to be that precise.
> 
> ...


And what did all the licensing cost on all those Frozen and Minion and other images ?
?


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

I do believe I can actually hear the sarcasm. Or is that righteous indignation?

Any answer I provide is only going to fuel said indignation.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Sacman said:


> Dave,
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/shop/SaccaStuff?ref=hdr_shop_menu
> 
> ...


Very interesting post. 

If I am reading you correctly, are you really saying that the entire printer base is really a very low cost mass produced Epson commodity item. 

In other words maybe if I bought a system like this I also go out and buy maybe 3 or 4 boxed retail Epson printers then the most of my maintenance concerns I can basically cannibalize the boxed Epson printers for the spare parts?

If the rest of the "DTG" is robust this sounds like a great option. 

Unless I missed it I would add to your point about the substrate flexibility. Not only is having uncoated substrates desirable, not having to heat press items is a huge plus to me. So many things just can't take pressure and heat.

As far as tshirts a DTG is not a good fit for me, but being able to print on a lot of surfaces that don't go thru a washing machine then I don't care about the limitations of the inks in that respect.

If I can white underbase and the inks dry and don't flake off _I'm good to go._ 

This also makes the DIY concept look attractive. There were several threads here on building a DIY _garment_ DTG I had looked at, but it always came down to it's still a garment DTG with ink washing limitations.

Thanks.


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes. I cannibalize all the time. the only component that is not directly replaceable on the printer base itself is the main board. However, as I may have stated, I blew an F2 fuse and a transistor on my main board. I jumped the fuse pulled the transistor off a spare board. The failure was my fault. I replaced the print head without pulling power. 

If you have ever priced a replacement print head for a 1430 printer, they are $300 and up. It is much cheaper to find one used on eBay or Craigslist. Even the print heads for mine are about $90. The cheapest I have found an R220 was for $25 on Craigslist. 

The only time I have had the ink scratch off is on the drawer pulls. I have struggled getting the same coating from my supplier every time I order it. They keep sending me different coatings. The original plastic coating I had would adhere great to the knobs. The most recent stuff is different and it will scratch off. I had to pull the knobs off my ETSY store until I can figure it out. 

The place where I got my sub inks also sells eco-solvent ink and pre-coating. The next time I have to buy either I am going there. Their sub ink has been awesome. Never had a clog and I leave it sit for two weeks at times. 

If you go to the DTG segment of the forums, there is a ton of info there on DIY DTG. They will almost exclusively talk about garment printing but the exact same builds will work with hard surfaces. You just need different ink and the coating. The biggest advantage mine has over most of the DIY versions is the adjustable vertical position. It is automatic and servo driven. Also my printer bed is servo/belt driven instead of friction drive which can fail over time as the friction coating wears. I have considered multiple times building my own but don't have the time or patience. However, I learned a lot about how my printer works from those threads and they have helped me out of a couple of jams. In fact, that was where I was first introduced to these forums. 

The opportunities with these printers are immense. Any time I find myself in Lowe's or Walmart or just about anywhere, I find myself looking for things I can print on.


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## tchandler52 (Sep 17, 2012)

We are also considering dye sublimation for socks and a few more items. I think both Dtg and sublimation have there place in ones shop.


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## Basikboy (Aug 28, 2007)

You're taking some big risks printing and selling what you do on Etsy Sacman. Careful out there, Disney does not take infringement lightly.


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

The only take down notice I have ever gotten is from Mojang (Minecraft) and I have gotten take downs from them on ETSY and eBay. What I have found is that if I were to have my own website selling unlicensed material, I would be shut down in a heartbeat. ETSY unofficially falls into the 'fanart' category and is generally left alone since almost everything on there is made by someone. Is it 100% legal? Not really for me to determine. ETSY will comply to any take down notice from an IP owner. It is up to the owner of the intellectual property to determine whether they want to do so. 

If you read into any MLB teams' licensing rules for example, they specifically state that you can't buy licensed materials, make something else, and then sell it for a profit. Yet, take a look on ETSY at all of the MLB merchandise on ETSY that does exactly that. I don't really know what prompts Mojang for example to be so aggressive about their IP while so many others are not. I still have a couple of Minecraft items listed that have never had takedowns and they are clearly listed as minecraft items and use images directly from the game. Type Frozen in ETSY search and you get 106,000 results, Disney yields over 330,000. Not all of them use direct images from the IP but a lot of them do. 

If I get take down notices, I have asked about them and put them back up when appropriate. When I got my notices on eBay, I did go have a long discussion with them about how to re-list. My argument was that I had been taken down but others had not that were doing the same thing. At the time, I learned that by including the words 'inspired by' in the listing I was protected. I was selling minecraft blocks printed on 6 sided dice using a custom texture pack so I was not actually even using their IP. But because I was calling them Minecraft blocks, eBay didn't like it. I changed it to inspired by Minecraft and all was good. About a year later when I started posting my switchplates to eBay, I didn't even try to put Minecraft ones up. I knew I would get shot down and didn't want to risk my account.

On ETSY, I was able to go straight to Mojang with my questions and the only part of their answer at the time the I didn't like was why there was still so many items on ETSY doing the same thing. They claimed that they were trying to get them all. This didn't appear to be true then but I have kept an eye on it out of curiosity and the number of IP violations with Minecraft images has dropped dramatically. It could be that when they were acquired by Microsoft, they brought the hammer down as part of Microsoft's policies. Don't know and don't care. I will continue to sell what I sell until I can't. Right or wrong is in the eye of the beholder. I am sure there are some on here that will see what I do as wrong and others that won't particularly care. Even though ETSY is online, to me it is no different than if I set up a booth at the local flea market and print and sold stuff there. 

Another quick story to try and put it in perspective. I met a vendor at Dragoncon two years ago that was selling vinyl decals. They were moving really well so I was curious. She was adamant that all of the artwork that they used was designed by them to make the decals. She was selling things like Stormtrooper and Darth Vador heads. How can you say you are using original art for a Stormtrooper head that is so iconic and you are only getting the outline when cutting the vinyl? They even had the Star Wars logo. My point is that ETSY is like the flea market or convention sales booth or local arts and crafts show of the internet world and the rules are a little more meh.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Sacman said:


> The only take down notice I have ever gotten is from Mojang (Minecraft) and I have gotten take downs from them on ETSY and eBay. What I have found is that if I were to have my own website selling unlicensed material, I would be shut down in a heartbeat. ETSY unofficially falls into the 'fanart' category and is generally left alone since almost everything on there is made by someone. Is it 100% legal? Not really for me to determine. ETSY will comply to any take down notice from an IP owner. It is up to the owner of the intellectual property to determine whether they want to do so.
> 
> If you read into any MLB teams' licensing rules for example, they specifically state that you can't buy licensed materials, make something else, and then sell it for a profit. Yet, take a look on ETSY at all of the MLB merchandise on ETSY that does exactly that. I don't really know what prompts Mojang for example to be so aggressive about their IP while so many others are not. I still have a couple of Minecraft items listed that have never had takedowns and they are clearly listed as minecraft items and use images directly from the game. Type Frozen in ETSY search and you get 106,000 results, Disney yields over 330,000. Not all of them use direct images from the IP but a lot of them do.
> 
> ...


Wow you need to go read the copyright laws not what ETSY or EBAY do. They aren' the ones that get raided and lose their stuff.

As for MLB rules they are too scare you off. The First sale doctrine says you can do what you want with it after you've LEGALLY purchased it. Look up tabbeone and see all the stuff about that.


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Mark, 

I get that you don't agree with what I do. I am aware of copyright laws. If you go to Walmart and ask them to make a cake that they don't have the license for they will refuse. They are Walmart. If you go to your niece's aunt's sister's cousin's house and ask them to make the same cake which you then shell out $30 for. Should she lose all of her cake making supplies? Nope. If you go to a mom and pop monogram shop in the mall and ask them to monogram an Olaf character on your daughters scarf and pay them for it they are doing the exact same thing. Are they going to lose everything for it? Nope. If I buy a foot stool with the UT logo on it at a local craft fair should I then immediately report them to the NCAA for copyright violations? Nope. If your sister walks into your shop and says she needs a one off of a Halo Master Chief on a mouse pad should you lose all of your stuff? Nope. But I'm sure that you would never do such a thing even for your own sister. Once again refer to my righteous indignation comment of a couple of months ago.

This is basically what ETSY does writ large. And it's not hidden. ETSY is huge! They have millions of members and thousands of sellers. It's not as if it were some underground website that the copyright holders can't find. Many major copyrighters like Disney and sports franchises have staff that specifically search for and root out copyright violations. This is how Mojang cracks down on IP violations.

As I said earlier today, some will disagree. That's fine, if you've got the spare time, go on over to ETSY and start sending messages to every other person on there that uses IP in their work. I hope you have a lot of free time. 

One last point, the First Sale Doctrine does not, in fact, allow you to make use of copyrighted material in a transformative way. It only allows the buyer the right to resell the item exactly as it was purchased. In other words, I can buy a dvd and resell the dvd. I can buy a yard of fabric that is copyrighted and resell that yard of fabric. The First Sale Doctrine does not let me make a pair of pajamas with the material and then sell that.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Wade
No problems man. I am not sinless my self in my life and sure as hell could never live in a glass house. Wasn't attempting to be the moral police or anything. 
Seems like a lot of people are coming into doing shirts/signs/etc and have no notion on what can and can't be done. I just hate for someone to read through here and get mislead or any forum for that matter. 
Couple Facebook groups I joined have no common sense and just hand out misnfo like crazy and no cares in the world about requests and postings. 
To each his own. 



Sacman said:


> Mark,
> 
> I get that you don't agree with what I do. I am aware of copyright laws. If you go to Walmart and ask them to make a cake that they don't have the license for they will refuse. They are Walmart. If you go to your niece's aunt's sister's cousin's house and ask them to make the same cake which you then shell out $30 for. Should she lose all of her cake making supplies? Nope. If you go to a mom and pop monogram shop in the mall and ask them to monogram an Olaf character on your daughters scarf and pay them for it they are doing the exact same thing. Are they going to lose everything for it? Nope. If I buy a foot stool with the UT logo on it at a local craft fair should I then immediately report them to the NCAA for copyright violations? Nope. If your sister walks into your shop and says she needs a one off of a Halo Master Chief on a mouse pad should you lose all of your stuff? Nope. But I'm sure that you would never do such a thing even for your own sister. Once again refer to my righteous indignation comment of a couple of months ago.
> 
> ...


https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=7811317241368435030

Also this
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CourtCases/1stCircuit/PreciousMomentsVsLaInfantil.shtml

These are good reads. Many have court cases and settlements. 
Major League Baseball Properties

Disney tried the same thing. 

I can go buy a MLB licensed fabric from a licensed vendor, make g strings out of them. MLB can huff and puff but thats about it.


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## Sacman (Jan 20, 2014)

Fair enough and I see your point. When I read that I was picturing in my mind someone opening up a shop full of licensed prints not realizing the legal implications of that. I hope that our back and forth has clarified that to any who read this. 

Good reads too by the way.


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## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

What I think some folks don't know is that the owners of the said images has to list each and every single listing that is offending in order to get them removed. That's what you may see some items still up when you have been asked to remove them. They then have to complete a document to Etsy to remove then. Etsy will comply and remove them. They do not mediate between the two parties. I have had to do this when some of my designs were knocked off by some oversea "sellers". 

Some creators actually like folks using their works in their creative products. It just depends.


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