# Vinyl for Car Decals?



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

I've got a plotter that's working great for making t-shirt transfers and I'd like to play with making some car decals. I was browsing the signwarehouse site and found their vinyl. Uh oh... what kind should I get? There's a LOT of choices!!

Is anybody making decals or know where the decal makers hang out?

I want to know:

1. What grade/thickness/gloss is best suited for window applications. I'm guessing Intermediate to premium (5-10 years). Are the major brands pretty much equivalent?

2. What does conforming/not conforming really mean?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> I've got a plotter that's working great for making t-shirt transfers and I'd like to play with making some car decals. I was browsing the signwarehouse site and found their vinyl. Uh oh... what kind should I get? There's a LOT of choices!!
> 
> Is anybody making decals or know where the decal makers hang out?
> 
> ...


Oracle 651 or 3M Interm. usually 3-5yr outdoor life depending on environment.
2 to 2.5 mil.
Conform means to conform to complex curves such as fender rolls rivets etc.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

Intermediate grade (5-year) is the most common. Conforming is how flexible it is when putting on an irregular surface. I think 2.5mm is the common thickness for calendar-type vinyl. We have been using Oracal 651 for over 3 years now, they're great.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

doh, David "quick fingers" graphix


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Vtec44 said:


> doh, David "quick fingers" graphix


Patience grasshopper. Someday you'll snatch that pebble.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Vtec44 said:


> doh, David "quick fingers" graphix


Congradulations on the new DTG...I am envious!!!!


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Conform means to conform to complex curves such as fender rolls rivets etc.


Ok, that's exactly what the web sites say... I didn't understand the first time either. 

Does that mean that it's a little stretchy and you can push it around and make it stick so that it ends up looking like a catwoman suit whereas non-conforming is more like a wetsuit?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Ok, that's exactly what the web sites say... I didn't understand the first time either.
> 
> Does that mean that it's a little stretchy and you can push it around and make it stick so that it ends up looking like a catwoman suit whereas non-conforming is more like a wetsuit?


You would be surprised where that vinyl will go with a bit of water and a heat gun. For stickers just stick with the 651...it will do everything you need it to do.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Ok, then since I've got you guys here... One more question...

Backing tape. There's 6 choices at the sign warehouse. Is the basic stuff good enough?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Ok, then since I've got you guys here... One more question...
> 
> Backing tape. There's 6 choices at the sign warehouse. Is the basic stuff good enough?


I think you mean transfer tape correct?


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I think you mean transfer tape correct?


yeah, the application tape. Sorry, yet another set of terms to learn.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> yeah, the application tape. Sorry, yet another set of terms to learn.


R tape is pretty good for fullside auto graphics. The clear tape is good for smaller decals so the customer can see what they are buying. I wouldnt purchase anything hi tack if you want to use a wet application tECHNIQUE. i THINK EVERYONE IN THE VINYL BUSINESS HAS A FAVORITE TAPE SO YOU MIGHT TRY THOSE AND SAMPLE SOME OTHERS AS YOU MOVE ALONG YOUR PATH. sAME GOES WITH THE VINYL.

OOPS...SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS...MUST HAVE HIT THE BUTTON.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> R tape is pretty good for fullside auto graphics. The clear tape is good for smaller decals so the customer can see what they are buying. I wouldnt purchase anything hi tack if you want to use a wet application tECHNIQUE. i THINK EVERYONE IN THE VINYL BUSINESS HAS A FAVORITE TAPE SO YOU MIGHT TRY THOSE AND SAMPLE SOME OTHERS AS YOU MOVE ALONG YOUR PATH. sAME GOES WITH THE VINYL.
> 
> OOPS...SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS...MUST HAVE HIT THE BUTTON.


Watch those caps. People might confuse you for a nOOb... regardless of the shirt color! 

I'm just going to do window stickers for now. Didn't even think about getting the clear stuff. Thanks for the help!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Watch those caps. People might confuse you for a nOOb... regardless of the shirt color!
> 
> I'm just going to do window stickers for now. Didn't even think about getting the clear stuff. Thanks for the help!


The clear stuff is great for overlays because it allows you to see what the hell you are overlaying. I would use the clear for stickers.


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## bobabuee (Dec 7, 2006)

dont use sign warehouse brand tape it roally sucks , use r- tape want learn about signmaking ,graphics try here : 

best site to learn all around good people too .

SignForums - Powered by Great Sign People


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Congradulations on the new DTG...I am envious!!!!


Thanks!


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

bobabuee said:


> dont use sign warehouse brand tape it roally sucks , use r- tape want learn about signmaking ,graphics try here :
> 
> best site to learn all around good people too .
> 
> SignForums - Powered by Great Sign People


Sucks?? 

Oh how I hate that word... Can you elaborate as to *why *you have that opinion?

I ordered some r-tape. Thx for the link. I'll browse the sign forums a bit tonight!


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## hammered (Apr 14, 2006)

I have a 15" roll of the Signwarehouse tape and like it. Ive used since I started. On the larger graphics you have to remember that material management is King. No matter how good you get, the tape will always be throw away. I use the less expensive tapes to help counter that. I agree with Dave on the clear tape when doing smaller sticker sized and layered jobs. Now if youre just pulling the tape off the roll and trying to hand lay it, then yes the SWH brand is a little tougher to use. Spend some time of effort and get an Application tape dispenser. Also dont get caught up in using the best of the best all the time. Use the correct grade material for the job. Brands like ShineRite and MacTac work great for small give aways and indoor use at a lot less expense to you. For a lot of information on sign vinyl and some of the consumables, Fellers.com is a great place to check and buy from. And look for 15" and 24" starter packs. It will have 3 to 5 rolls of about 3 yards of vinyl. Its a cheap way to practice and if something comes out good, you golden.


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## bobabuee (Dec 7, 2006)

because it does not stick too the vinyl most time,it is crap when i first started in biz 4 years ago i had so many problems to to their own brand tape ,

i been using r tape 4075 rla , at 60 clear for 3.5 yrs i been signmaker use transfer everyday. its their that sucks they will send you sample try it,it will suck.



just getting into heat transfers now. you can learn alot from the site which i posted.


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## Coyote (Nov 15, 2006)

I've been using the clear application tape for over 5 months. I tried the paper type and hated it. The paper curls and folds on itself and since it's opaque, it's impossible to line up underneath. Also, since I sold my decals directly to customers and they did the install, I wanted to make it as easy as possible for them (so they'll come back for more). And, probably most important from a retail standpoint, the clear tape allows the customer to see the completed decal when they get it. I love the smiles people would give when they saw their decal before I put it in a bag.

P.S.: I use Oracal 651.


...Mat


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Great info guys.. I am making a bunch of decals out of the little scraps of sign vinyl. Anyone want to give a good retail price for these. I am thinking of just keep building an inventory and try to sell at flea market when it warms up.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

badalou said:


> Great info guys.. I am making a bunch of decals out of the little scraps of sign vinyl. Anyone want to give a good retail price for these. I am thinking of just keep building an inventory and try to sell at flea market when it warms up.


That is exactly what we do Lou...have about three plastic bins full of decals for point of sale. I always cut multiples when folks order decals and just throw the extras in a bin.


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## Coyote (Nov 15, 2006)

My prices are $5 + ten cents a square inch. So a 10"x10" decal was $15. Math Time!!! 

5+((10x10)*.1)=15

But, that's for custom, while-you-wait stuff. You may want to adjust accordingly.

...Mat


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

The pre-cut bin decals are usually 1 for $5 and 3 for $10


Here is the fullside graphic I am cutting this morning.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

> The pre-cut bin decals are usually 1 for $5 and 3 for $10


Wow that is great. I was at a local Tap Plastic store (Where they sell cut plastic and vinyl) and saw a piece of black vinyl 15 x 15 with a few ripples in it, nothing big, in their trash can. I asked if I could have it and they said yes. I figure I can get about 10 decals out of it at the least or something else if need be. It still amazes me on the mark-up of this stuff.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

badalou said:


> Wow that is great. I was at a local Tap Plastic store (Where they sell cut plastic and vinyl) and saw a piece of black vinyl 15 x 15 with a few ripples in it, nothing big, in their trash can. I asked if I could have it and they said yes. I figure I can get about 10 decals out of it at the least or something else if need be. It still amazes me on the mark-up of this stuff.


I always try and fill the vinyl when I cut anything. Always save the scraps as well because those scraps will pay for most of your materials.


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## hammered (Apr 14, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I always try and fill the vinyl when I cut anything. Always save the scraps as well because those scraps will pay for most of your materials.


Yup Dave has dead on. material management is key to making money. If you can gang in as many jobs as you have space you can still charge for the square amount of material used. Im steering away from the small stickers, just too much involved weeding to make 5 to 10 bucks. Now I can do a rollcall or store front and make $300 to $500 on a store front with a 1/10 the weed time. Im just getting into IDs fo the MX crowd. Im thinking Ill need thicker or cast vinyl plus maybe a laminate for it to be more rugged. Its been years since I rode but I dont remember it being kind to paint and graphics. As some of you have found, the paper backed tape is a little more to deal with. But as I stated, an application tape machine will make life so much easier and save yo money in the end. The clear tape fine for flat graphics, but Ive had issues with rivets and non standard surfaces. Ive been using MainTape on my last couple jobs (Feller brand) and while its inexpensive, it conforms to Coraplast step stake signs, rivets and odd shapes. Also, whereas AT-60 clear tape is only $3 more a 100 yard roll, when you start going through 3 or 4 of those a month, it adds up. I figure, if its a consumable, why spend money on something that a cheaper alternatives will do the same. I agree though with using AT-60 for layering and for small self apply stickers.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I like the clear for the small stuff but the good old yellow tape for wet application fullside graphics. I do like the R tape the best because the corners dont peel and thats important when I tube the graphics for shipping.


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

What determines when to do a "wet application"? Does it depend on the substrate the vinyl is being applied to? Or the type of vinyl being used? Or ???


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

mzmadmax said:


> What determines when to do a "wet application"? Does it depend on the substrate the vinyl is being applied to? Or the type of vinyl being used? Or ???


 
For us, it's more like the size of vinyl. The larger the piece, the more prone it is to bubbles.


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## hammered (Apr 14, 2006)

mzmadmax said:


> What determines when to do a "wet application"? Does it depend on the substrate the vinyl is being applied to? Or the type of vinyl being used? Or ???


For me, some of its size but odd placements factor in too. I did a small trailer at a field I used to play at. Some of the graphics needed to wrap and line up with other elements. Ill admit, Im cheap in this respect. I make my wet app fluid. In a 16 ounce spray bottle I add roughly 6 to 8 drops of dishwashing lotion and a 1/2 ounce of MEK. Methol Ethol Ketone isnt legal in many places so you could change it to match the law in your area. It works great and activates the adhesive just like the stuff you buy at Sign supplies. Anther good time to do wet applcations are when doing multi layers.


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## mixture77 (Jan 4, 2007)

oracle 651 rocks make sure you have good sign software using illustrator or corel sucks i recomend using flexi sign pro It is worth every penny if your looking to get into this market


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

James and Dave, thanks for the info on wet application.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

mixture77 said:


> oracle 651 rocks make sure you have good sign software using illustrator or corel sucks i recomend using flexi sign pro It is worth every penny if your looking to get into this market


I use Flexi for production but I really like Corel for design. Sign Lab is pretty cool as well.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

mixture77 said:


> oracle 651 rocks make sure you have good sign software using illustrator or corel sucks i recomend using flexi sign pro It is worth every penny if your looking to get into this market


Sucks? There's that word again... Why?

I use illustrator for design. How would sign software be better for that? What can it do that illustrator can't?

Remember, I'm just going to make window stickers. Probably the same designs that I've created for the shirts.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Sucks? There's that word again... Why?
> 
> I use illustrator for design. How would sign software be better for that? What can it do that illustrator can't?
> 
> Remember, I'm just going to make window stickers. Probably the same designs that I've created for the shirts.


Jose we should have talked more at the show. I am going same direction. I also use illustrator cs2. Got an email from a guy in the east and he is doing a lot of memorial tags for cars. Lou


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

badalou said:


> Jose we should have talked more at the show. I am going same direction. I also use illustrator cs2. Got an email from a guy in the east and he is doing a lot of memorial tags for cars. Lou


Yup, but you looked WAAAAY out of it by the time I got to you.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Yup, but you looked WAAAAY out of it by the time I got to you.


What does that mean..







Did you think I was drinking?







Nope just tired. In fact I had only one beer. You guys came just a few minutes after I got there. The other problem I have at those places is hearing.. you guys sat on my deaf side. And the other ear has a hearing aid which suck in noisy locations.







I get uncomfortable in noisy locations. had I sat across from you we would have had a nice chat. Gail was talking to me and her voice was very soft and she was across from me. So I did what I do in those situations... I leave... Jim and I walked around together and I kept making sure he was on my "Good side." I Will talk at you later though.. I have great hearing on the phone..







LOL Lou


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

No, not at all. You looked tired, just like the rest of us! You should have told us to re-arrange! We ended up staying for at least 3 beers after you left.


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## Coyote (Nov 15, 2006)

badalou said:


> Got an email from a guy in the east and he is doing a lot of memorial tags for cars. Lou


When I was in the Mall, at least half of my sales were Memorial/In Loving Memory decals. At least twice I sold 40 of the same decal to families. That's why I concentrated on that when I started my website even though I'm loving the shirts MUCH more.

...Mat


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## hammered (Apr 14, 2006)

Im slowly but surely learning Corel Draw and Paint to do my design work. I love how much more this suite offers over my 2D Cad signware. Dont get me wrong, I love how easy and powerful Cibercut is, but it does limit what I can do. To accomplish the same thing with what Cibercat makes, Id have to purchase their RIPware aswell. Infact theres a quick question I have for those who own vinyl printers, is there a plug-in to print straight from Corel or Adobe?


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

hammered said:


> Infact theres a quick question I have for those who own vinyl printers, is there a plug-in to print straight from Corel or Adobe?


Yup. Graphtec and Roland have them. Easy as File->Send to Plotter.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

> No, not at all. You looked tired, just like the rest of us! You should have told us to re-arrange! We ended up staying for at least 3 beers after you left.


This is just something that I try not to show.. I worked with people for years and they never knew I was almost deaf. 3 beers!!!.. You would have been taking me back to my motel. I made a mistake of getting a second beer and said I wanted what Rodney had.. That sucked. I had about a third of the glass and stopped. I still don't know what it was. I grew up with a grandfather that worked 35 years for Busch in St. Louis. I am spoiled.. anyway off the subject. I think what I will do is build a supply of decals over the next few months and go try to sell them when it warms up..


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I made a mistake of getting a second beer and said I wanted what Rodney had.. That sucked.


Hehe...I should have warned ya, Lou, sorry. I was drinking cider.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Followup*

Got my 651, clear R type and some reflective vinyl last night. Cuts and weeds were super-duper easy! I wish t-shirt weeded like this!!!

The tests turned out so good that I went a little crazy. I got carried away and cut about 100 decals. Oops. Got lots of weeding to do tonight! Thing is, it's so easy that I can do about 4-5 times as much as I could with the spectra in the same amount of time.

Almost forgot to thank you guys for your help. Thanks!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

*Re: Followup*



Moo Spot Prints said:


> Got my 651, clear R type and some reflective vinyl last night. Cuts and weeds were super-duper easy! I wish t-shirt weeded like this!!!
> 
> The tests turned out so good that I went a little crazy. I got carried away and cut about 100 decals. Oops. Got lots of weeding to do tonight! Thing is, it's so easy that I can do about 4-5 times as much as I could with the spectra in the same amount of time.
> 
> Almost forgot to thank you guys for your help. Thanks!


Go cut an intricate graphic with sign vinyl and then cut it in heatpress vinyl. Weed them both and give us the score.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: Followup*



MotoskinGraphix said:


> Go cut an intricate graphic with sign vinyl and then cut it in heatpress vinyl. Weed them both and give us the score.


Nope. I already tried that. I purposefully used a simple design.


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