# Web design using Microsoft Front page



## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

Hi all, 

Sorry its been a while since last post but been extremly busy designing my website and getting everything I need to start selling T shirts!

I was just wondering if anyone has used Microsoft frontpage to design their web page? I actually knew very little about web design a month ago, but have kind of taught myself using tutorials!

My main question is, do you think I will have any problems uploading the site when most of my pages have been designed using layers. I have used some tables but found them very restricting when trying to overlap certain parts! 

Another question? I am thinking of using paypals free checkout to incorporate into my site, but I think it will take a long time to do as I have to copy and paste the code generated by the descriptions I put in, and add this to every item I am selling! I dont think I can actually do this until the site goes 'live, so nobody will be able to buy anything until I have entered all the codes!! Is there an easier way of doing this on a very tight budget? 

Many thanks


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## Ujudgnme2 (Mar 28, 2006)

I have used FP when designing a website. Thinking you should save the layered file as a jpeg then import into tables for FP. I had no problem when creating my site and using Paypal. I just got lazy and havent finished it....lol


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## Parlophone (Feb 8, 2007)

i write my code by hand using a text editor like notepad, but that's because i'm nerdier than most haha. seriously though, the best way to learn html is to tweak source code from websites you like by hand. you'd be surprised how much you can learn and apply when you read and understand every single line of code.

if you dont have the time or ability, use dreamweaver.
if that's over your head, frontpage is adequate.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

Thanks. I have actually designed everything including layers inside fp, so I guess it should be fine! It looks good in the browser when I view it, I think some older versions of browsers may not support layers though? Good luck on getting yours finished....


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

Thanks, any info is helpful! I have tried looking at the code in FP in split veiw to see what happens, but I have a heck of a lot to learn on that score! I like to just place my images and text in a layer or table and let the software do the hard work! I have looked at dreamweaver, but it looked way beyond my intelligence! I use Illustrator and photoshop to 'mock up' my page and add any groovey stuff and I am liking the way it is turning out! I just hope it works when I upload it!


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## aust1025 (Mar 1, 2007)

Oh my!

Front page is not the most user friendly program out there!

As a professional web designer i would say stay far away from layers as when you upload, the server may not allow the layers to be displayed properly.

Tables can be a pain in the rear but after playing with them for a bit you'll see that they are they way to go.

If you have any specific please feel free to contact me and i'll help you out.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

I was afraid somebody might say something like that! Oh dear! I thought I was doing so well. I think my pages were looking great as I had spent a lot of time working on getting them exactly how I wanted them! 

I have been working on this for about a month. I deliberatly stayed away from templates as I couldnt set the page out how I wanted. I also needed to put my logo on top of some other borders, and tables wouldnt seem to allow me to overlap!

My next question then would be this.. Can I use what I have already designed in another application? I have dreamweaver, but know nothing about... It seems very complicated, wheras I had just got to grips with FP!

Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

lizacwilson said:


> I was afraid somebody might say something like that! Oh dear! I thought I was doing so well. I think my pages were looking great as I had spent a lot of time working on getting them exactly how I wanted them!
> 
> I have been working on this for about a month. I deliberatly stayed away from templates as I couldnt set the page out how I wanted. I also needed to put my logo on top of some other borders, and tables wouldnt seem to allow me to overlap!
> 
> ...


If frontpage is working for you, then you really don't need to switch.

If you were starting from scratch, I would have suggested spending the learning curve time on Dreamweaver instead of Frontpage.

But since you're already working with frontpage, then you may want to stick with it since you have your site looking the way you want.



> Another question? I am thinking of using paypals free checkout to incorporate into my site, but I think it will take a long time to do as I have to copy and paste the code generated by the descriptions I put in, and add this to every item I am selling! I dont think I can actually do this until the site goes 'live, so nobody will be able to buy anything until I have entered all the codes!! Is there an easier way of doing this on a very tight budget?


You could use a free shopping cart (like cubecart, which is available at cubecart.com) to create products on your site. 

It can seem complicated at first, but once installed, it will be much easier to handle orders, products, customers, payment options, etc. They also have lots of help available in their cubecart forums.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

Thanks again to everyone thats replied! I will give it some thought to what I do next before getting too carried away. I will definately checkout cubecart too! I think having a few options is the best way to go.. No final decisions need to be made just yet. I have much work to do............


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## aust1025 (Mar 1, 2007)

Godaddy offers a pretty nice shopping cart for 17.99 a month.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

lizacwilson said:


> My next question then would be this.. Can I use what I have already designed in another application?



Yes. However, it still may not be the best to do it this way:

I personally wouldn't recommend FrontPage for anything, though it does work. It tends to add a bunch of extra junk to the code of a page and really makes a mess of things in general, IMO =) (This "extra junk" in the code will probably still be there after editing the page with Dreamweaver or such.)

You'll get the cleanest, most precise results doing a site manually with something like NoteTab. Failing that, I'd recommend Dreamweaver or possibly Nvu (a free one that's supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't tried it yet).


Whatever you end up using, though, make sure you test the page in at least both Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox. If your page only looks right in IE, you're only hitting 3/4ths of your audience!


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

Twinge said:


> Yes. However, it still may not be the best to do it this way:
> 
> I personally wouldn't recommend FrontPage for anything, though it does work. It tends to add a bunch of extra junk to the code of a page and really makes a mess of things in general, IMO =) (This "extra junk" in the code will probably still be there after editing the page with Dreamweaver or such.)
> 
> ...


Thank you for responding!! You have just saved me from wasting any more time with FrontPage!!! I am afraid to say, that although my site looked absolutely great on Internet explorer, when I finally set it up to view on Mozzilla, I clearly had a big problem!!! My layers were way out of synch!! In fact it looked a mess! 

Well I suppose if nothing else the experience has taught me a little about web design. I will be much more careful in future...

I have already started viewing some tutorials on dreamweaver 8, and plan to re-design in this.. I have to say, I really know nothing about this software, but I plan to teach myself, as after all, I am supposed to be a graphic designer! I have already hit my first stumbling block when trying to set up a new site! I have to put in my ftp address and password and then test it, but it wont accept it! 
Now I dont know if I am supposed to be putting my web hosting address in (it is being hosted by 123-reg.co.uk) or my Ftp address (I was going to use aol's free one) I am sure I will get there eventually..... If anyone has any useful tips about dreamweaver, or definate no, no's then pleeeeease let me know before I get too carried away! THANKS


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## oddhuman (Jul 27, 2006)

I started out with frontpage 97 and currently using Dreamweaver 8 and Frontpage 2003. If you are interested in using frontpage and paypal I found a neat little tool you can use. 1-2-3 PayPal Website Payments for
Microsoft FrontPage.

1-2-3 PayPal Website Payments for Microsoft FrontPage

Its a wizard to insert paypal shopping cart buttons using frontpage. It only works with FP 2000, XP, and 2003. Hope it helps.


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## oddhuman (Jul 27, 2006)

Here is another paypal tool.

PaypalShopBuilder.com :: Ecommerce Shopping Cart :: Paypal Shop Builder ::

You could create your products in it and use frontpage to edit the layout to give it a more custom look.


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## mizi117 (Mar 12, 2007)

i'm using FP to create my website,but i have a problem during save my picture gallery.There is instruction asking me to save at the web-based FP.And i dont understand exactly what they mean.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

mizi117 said:


> i'm using FP to create my website,but i have a problem during save my picture gallery.There is instruction asking me to save at the web-based FP.And i dont understand exactly what they mean.


 
Not sure bout that! I didn't use the picture gallery. All I can think is, you need the address of your FTP? (flie transfer protocol) You may not be able to view properly unless you upload it?? I'm sure someone has a better idea than me! 

ANYONE?


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## L00T (Feb 8, 2007)

If you invest some time in learning Dreamweaver now it will save you lot's of time later, when you want to use it again, and again, and again...
For your problem with tables I suggest this: make your design-layout in Photoshop, drag some guides to create some table rows and collumns in a logical way and slice it up in small pieces. Go to File > Save For Web and use ImageReady to save all slices. You can also save pics and HTML from there so it will create a table for you allready. Now you have a close idea of how your table should look like, because mostly you want to edit it to get your own customised look and feel


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## mizi117 (Mar 12, 2007)

that why now....i'm strugle to learn Dreamweave...as so many my friends ask me to learn about the software.


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## oddhuman (Jul 27, 2006)

Dreamweaver is a very powerful WYSIWYG editor. I recently started studing CSS and dreamweaver is making it easy.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

mizi117 said:


> that why now....i'm strugle to learn Dreamweave...as so many my friends ask me to learn about the software.


 
Ok. I have recently started to use dreamweaver 8, and I knew nothing about!! If you can use frontpage, then you can use dreamweaver. Its just a matter of taking the time to figure out what the tools are and where to start! 


I found this website invaluable in learning the basics for dreamweaver, and I would suggest to anyone trying to learn new software to watch the tutorials, especially video ones!

Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 free tutorial. Unit 1. Dreamweaver 8 Basics (I)

I also found this website, which gives you dozens of lessons free, then if you wish, you can buy more.

Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 Tutorials

My website is coming along great now, I took the time to read the tutorials first, rather than dive head long into something which initially looks very confusing! As I said, I had no experience of dreamweaver until a few weeks ago. I am glad I made the change, as Frontpage caused many problems for me, and would have also cost me extra in my web hosting, as I would have to have paid for Frontpage extensions to make the website work!!

My advice, give it a go. Its not that bad! GOOD LUCK!


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## downrodeo (Apr 28, 2007)

Frontpage is bad, it does not adhere to web standards. The way I started out web designing was simply clicking on "view source" then comparing it with codes in w3schools.com site. I know, it's a terrible way to learn, but at that moment, I had nothing else but a notepad and time... If you are really in a hurry and want it up asap, then my suggestion is to seek professional help, rather than come up with a mediocre site. Because of the competitive nature of the business, the prices to hire a designer has dropped tremendously. I personally don't charge cheap, but I make sure that my customers get what they want, and adhere to web standards. The results: happy customers.


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## oddhuman (Jul 27, 2006)

Why not try the new Micorsoft Expression Web. It is the new version of frontpage. Don't know why microsoft changed the name. They have a 60 day trial.

Microsoft® Expression®


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## fredschellart (May 9, 2007)

If you build a site, be sure that customer with an older browser version can see your site correctly. Test the pages in both Internet Explorer and FireFox - and not only in the newest versions but in previous versions too.

Be aware of the fact that if a page looks nice in one browser, it can look badly in the other. 
If you use CSS you can avoid this by using the properties that are cross browser.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

fredschellart said:


> If you build a site, be sure that customer with an older browser version can see your site correctly. Test the pages in both Internet Explorer and FireFox - and not only in the newest versions but in previous versions too.
> 
> Be aware of the fact that if a page looks nice in one browser, it can look badly in the other.
> If you use CSS you can avoid this by using the properties that are cross browser.


 
Yes I totally agree with that. I was sure as my site looked great in internet explorer, that it would also look good elsewhere! I was wrong. Even now, IE and firefox look slightly different when I view my pages, but the differences are much more acceptable now that I am using dreamweaver!


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## fredschellart (May 9, 2007)

If you make use of CSS you could make one css for styles that show up the same in both IE as FF. Then make a stylesheet for IE and one for FF for the styles that look differently in both browsers. Make changes to the attributes so your site looks (almost) the same in every browser.

Add a "browser detect" script to the heading of your pages. Depending on your visitor's browser the right stylesheet is used.

(browser detect scripts can be found in many javascript libraries on the internet)

I hope you unerstand what I tried to explain - I am not a native speaker.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

fredschellart said:


> If you make use of CSS you could make one css for styles that show up the same in both IE as FF. Then make a stylesheet for IE and one for FF for the styles that look differently in both browsers. Make changes to the attributes so your site looks (almost) the same in every browser.
> 
> Add a "browser detect" script to the heading of your pages. Depending on your visitor's browser the right stylesheet is used.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks, I will look into that! As you may have guessed, I am not an expert in web building and learn what I need to through tuorials!


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

downrodeo said:


> The way I started out web designing was simply clicking on "view source" then comparing it with codes in w3schools.com site. I know, it's a terrible way to learn, but at that moment, I had nothing else but a notepad and time...



Actually, I'd say that's a great way to learn. Many people learn a lot better by actually doing something and seeing it work. When I was first learning some php (I still don't know it very well), simply looking at some php code was enough to teach me tons about it =) 




fredschellart said:


> Add a "browser detect" script to the heading of your pages. Depending on your visitor's browser the right stylesheet is used.
> 
> (browser detect scripts can be found in many javascript libraries on the internet)



This can work, but there are a few problems with this idea as well. First off, some people have javascript turned off (maybe 10% or so? I don't have any solid numbers offhand), so code that relies on it will not be run. Secondly, you still need a default layout to refer to if the browser type can't be detected. 

And of course, people can fake their browser too; I think one browser (Opera? Not sure) pretends to be Netscape by default even. 

In general, I think it's best to design a single site that looks good in all browsers. This also means making future changes won't be as complex either (changing multiple scripts for one change). If for some reason you simply cannot make a single set of code work right in multiple browsers, browser detection is probably a decent fall back.


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

I used FP for my website, and have had no issues at all with browser compatibility - the site looks the same in IE and Firefox. Also, although I have pages with MP3 samples and a lot of pics, the site loads pretty fast (I am on broadband, though, as I suspect most folk are these days...it may be slow in dial-up).

I have heard the complaints of clunky FP code and slow loading with FP-designed sites, but for all practical purposes, I have found FP to be completely adequate to the task it is designed for. I also think it's pretty user-friendly. I say this as one who has struggled with programs like Illustrator and WordPress.

Perhaps, as suggested earlier, the trick is to use tables when designing (which is what I did intuitively, and probably luckily), rather than layers. I have heard that layers are problematic, so have always kept away from using them.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I have used nothing but Front Page for 8 years.. I have every version and do a lot of webs. it is kind of old hat for me. I also own dreamweaver and go live.. I do not have the time to learn new tricks.


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## lizacwilson (Mar 9, 2007)

badalou said:


> I have used nothing but Front Page for 8 years.. I have every version and do a lot of webs. it is kind of old hat for me. I also own dreamweaver and go live.. I do not have the time to learn new tricks.


Yes I know what you mean! It can be quite time consuming trying to read up on everything and follow tutorials, but it can be done if you set aside a good week to just learn the basics. The rest then follows.  

Obviously there is no need to learn 'new tricks' if you are quite happy with what you have got. You are obviously a pro with FP now, and I'm sure that would make it even harder for you to switch!! It just goes to show, not everybody has problems with this software!  

 Thanks for everybodys comments. I'm sure they are most helpful for others members who too, may have some sort of dilemma on what software to use when building their e-commerce site. Liza


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