# opinions on youtees/ravenprints



## kopeor (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey
Came across youtees videos today on youtube. Anyone have any experience with his press? Does it really keep that good registration? Any other comments regarding this method?
Thanks!


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Hi there! lee of YouTees here. I SHOWED it right for you to see in my vids. YES...it really does...or what would be the point? In fact...I send out one of those double ring registration samples you see me printing with every press I sell. So between the 'right in front of your face' (no fancy camera tricks...and if they exist i don't know how they would be used!?) video(which nobody else does BTW...)and the sample YOU get to hold in youir hands and examine for yourself...I've done all I can do. Just follow the logic and watch the demos and there is no need to be skeptical. BUT...it is good that you ask questions. THAT is why i make my vids...to answer questions BEFORE people even ask them. Many do not even know WHAT to ask? I knew when I made my vids i could talk all day and unless i made the proof video, none of it would matter. let skepticism serve you...be careful about letting it get contro over you. Answers exist...be open to them when they really DO come your way. I KNOW there are people oput there who became MORE confused about screenprinting after they listened to what everybody is telling them! They were even less likely to begin. My approach is to shoot down what shoudl be shot down and yet give people the right info so they have a way up and out. NO 'information' hype or ??? should keep one from printing. I hear from many people that I helped them unhderstand SP in a good way. I know my stuff...otherwise i would just start building kayaks full time  Are you Screen printing yet? I have many references from YT'rs and well before. Enjoy...and thanks for watching my YT vids. More coming when I get time from printing and building.


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## nenemott (Sep 23, 2007)

I have sent youtees four emails about info on the prices on their equipment, and I still have not gotten an email.
Rafael


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## JMD (Mar 16, 2007)

I also sent an email ....no response


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## Imagerlus (Dec 23, 2008)

youtees said:


> In fact...I send out one of those double ring registration samples you see me printing with every press


I need your website to check out your products and prices. Thanks


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

nenemott said:


> I have sent youtees four emails about info on the prices on their equipment, and I still have not gotten an email.
> Rafael


Apologies...during this period of time there were two tragedies in my family. I needed to regroup. I work alone. Where YOU work...if something bad happens there are others to carry it on. I am 'THE GUY' making good things happen for my customers. Your post is an old one and I admit that for a while there I was just not doing anything but what I do....Print. I am HUGELY busy with both printing and press building. and I am GOLDEN about answering emails. I have tons of current references. I am not aloud to post them here.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Imagerlus said:


> I need your website to check out your products and prices. Thanks


I am not allowed to post that here. "self promotion"...


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

JMD said:


> I also sent an email ....no response


as well: Apologies...during this period of time there were two tragedies in my family. I needed to regroup. I work alone. Where YOU work...if something bad happens there are others to carry it on. I am 'THE GUY' making good things happen for my customers. Your post is an old one and I admit that for a while there I was just not doing anything but what I do....Print. I am HUGELY busy with both printing and press building. and I am GOLDEN about answering emails. I have tons of current references. I am not aloud to post them here.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

youtees said:


> I am not allowed to post that here. "self promotion"...


You are more than welcome to put your website link in your signature as explained here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/forum-information/t80408.html


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## loquito (Jan 30, 2008)

Hello,
Are you still selling kits?


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## BWD (Mar 8, 2009)

Not heard to do a google search for youtees... first link that comes up for me.


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## Leadfoot (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, I sent Lee an e-mail in early November and he replied very quickly and was very friendly and helpful. I had already begun working on my DIY press when I ran into his videos through this forum and had some money invested so I was not going to buy from Lee at the moment but he simply was willing to help me in any way he could. Just my 2 cents, sometimes people have things happen. We all tend to forget sometimes that those we are speaking to via electronic means are human and technology has made us very impatient. We want to get responses back immediately and when that doesn't happen we get mad. I have had to learn this myself but also as an eCommerce business owner I try my best to reply to customers as soon as I can, but things come up occasionally preventing that.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

I tried to go to his website today and all I got was a "for sale" site that said his domain was up for sale. Anybody find anything else out. I like Lee's DIY and get er done type way of doing things. I know he has had some troubles recently but not much about them. I hope he doesn't just disappear. I have the ability to make a similar system like his but for the cost and added value he gives, I intend to buy one of his setups when things get to where I can do anything.


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## Leadfoot (Sep 10, 2009)

DTFuqua said:


> I tried to go to his website today and all I got was a "for sale" site that said his domain was up for sale. Anybody find anything else out. I like Lee's DIY and get er done type way of doing things. I know he has had some troubles recently but not much about them. I hope he doesn't just disappear. I have the ability to make a similar system like his but for the cost and added value he gives, I intend to buy one of his setups when things get to where I can do anything.


The website link I have is there, it is .net NOT .com


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

very good to be set straight Thank you


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Wow!!!! Thank YOU Chrissi! There ARE so many that can attest to how well I treated them. But it is VERY few who take the time when 'all is well and comfortable' to come here and speak up for that. BUT, when somebody gets upset or angry they are on a forum REAL fast! Thank you for taking the time to point those things out. I normally do not come here...well...because my customers know who to ask if they have any issues. But it is also true that many NON customers will come here and believe some negs that have no basis. One guy even said I used to be part of 'home Cash Business' till I got "kicked out" by the family!? 'and then" according to this forum poster...I "started selling my own gear". Unbelievable. I started building and selling my gear ONLY because people WANTED me to. The super accurate micro tuner system was my response to some very poorly registering shop equipment. I was happy back then to JUST have my own. NOW...companies(like Knight-mfg are taking my design; dumbing it down; selling it(while admitting or proving he/they have little to NO knowledge of SP)for the profits they can get by piggy-backing on my years of hard work and creativity. And NO thanks are offered as they do it.
You may or may not have my equipment(?) But I have always appreciated people of honor and respect whether they bought from me or not. I have had days that were 'made' due to somebody just sincerely thanking me vor video info. I never got into this for profit primary...but for reality and those who MIGHT appreciate it. I remember people and how they are FAR longer than I remember who bought what. On the day I feel like I am just working at 'wal*mart" and only for people looking for the cheapest deal and not caring about anything beyond that...I will drop it like a hot rock. There will ALWAYS be somebody selling SP gear. I try to make a realu difference. The copy cats KNOW that...that is why they copy. but they do not know enough to copy what all matters. At least to me and those I care to help. Best to YOU!



Leadfoot said:


> Well, I sent Lee an e-mail in early November and he replied very quickly and was very friendly and helpful. I had already begun working on my DIY press when I ran into his videos through this forum and had some money invested so I was not going to buy from Lee at the moment but he simply was willing to help me in any way he could. Just my 2 cents, sometimes people have things happen. We all tend to forget sometimes that those we are speaking to via electronic means are human and technology has made us very impatient. We want to get responses back immediately and when that doesn't happen we get mad. I have had to learn this myself but also as an eCommerce business owner I try my best to reply to customers as soon as I can, but things come up occasionally preventing that.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Leadfoot said:


> Well, I sent Lee an e-mail in early November and he replied very quickly and was very friendly and helpful. I had already begun working on my DIY press when I ran into his videos through this forum and had some money invested so I was not going to buy from Lee at the moment but he simply was willing to help me in any way he could. Just my 2 cents, sometimes people have things happen. We all tend to forget sometimes that those we are speaking to via electronic means are human and technology has made us very impatient. We want to get responses back immediately and when that doesn't happen we get mad. I have had to learn this myself but also as an eCommerce business owner I try my best to reply to customers as soon as I can, but things come up occasionally preventing that.


further....I have personally built over 3,200 screen printing set ups with MULTIPLE pieces of equipment in about 400 of those. All while raising a kid and being a full time (plus)for many years screen printer. So before some of you get TOO disgruntled behind your keyboard or when email does not happen 'right when' you think it ought to (good thing you were not around in the days of letters and stamps) have a little talk with yourself. 
Find me(and share that with us please)anybody who has 30 years in ALL phases of SP...full time printer...raising a kid AND still MAKES time to care about what YOU might print on? The copycats who are now trying to drive me out of what I do(with my own ideas!)STILL do not know what I know or have the passion I have. But they will make a chunk of money because many just do not care...until YOUR dollars and business are at issue. THEN/...you come on a forum and ask. MAYBE you will get right answers...maybe not. Forums are NOT my primary interest or involvement. That is not a negative thing...on my end. BUT...I will now come here at least once a week or so, so I can keep it real re 'youtees'. There is NO 'youtees' in MY mind. It is just a name. A tag. I only ever cared about what it stands for and the honesty and work I have put into it...and appreciate that it gives something back. You notice I NEVER even put my logo on my own equipment. KNIGHT does and he is not even a screen printer...nor is the equipment he labels HIS ideas. But there it is all big and bold so YOU might be impressed. I do what I do with real skills and knoweledge. Never had another desire. Now...so many think they 'know' me? Few takle the time to get to. Not ego to say that NOBODY has/is doing what I do, now for 20 plus years(equipment wise). It is a fact and a LOT of care and dedication. You can go wherever and buy whatever. I know what i am about. Wish some more who also positively KNOW that, would weigh in. Some have. If I listed the emails of those who COULD do that you could not contact all of them...or 1/100th of. I do not violate my customers privacy...EVER. but when it comes to that reality YOU are unaware of...'Youtees' does not take a back seat to what is often put 'surmised' in on forums. Man! if people think I used to be a part of Home Cash Business (for example) like one poster tries to convince you...NO WONDER they would not contact me. HCB is (just ONE of)the exact OPPOSITE of why I am here re SP. Remember...it is a FORUM...it ain't GOD talking.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Hello all,


Just to let the world know I have sent for a YouTees Screen printing Press today. My wife and I have been talking with Lee at Youtees for a month now and have found him a real wealth of information. Lee has answered every email we have sent him promptly and with great care and complete information. So looking forward to getting our press.


Thank you,


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

I have sent LEE a couple email too and he was quick to get back to me. I am also thinking of buying one of hi press.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

I will keep an updated posting here about how things go as they go along. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I have never screenprinted be for and so looking forward to my first time. As I learn I will also find a place to post some pic's so people can see how things turn out as I go. For the good and the bad. After talking with lee ofer the last 30 or so day about screen printing I think it might not be so hard to do if I put in the time to learn. I started looking at the big rotory presses, wow now theres some cash out the door. Even had a salesman call me up and hit me with his sales pitch, I was sold, hold the phone what dose all this stuff do and do I realy need it I asked. His reply was to say yes you will need all this plus a bit more just to get started ($33,000
.00) Ok. No. but I did learn a lot so I could start looking for just what I thought I needed and I was right I was looking for Youtees equipment just did not know I was. 

Will keep a post as I learn when the press come in, about 2 weeks from now.


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

$33000 sound pricey for beginner. maybe sale guy making $$,$$$ commission. Good luck with your press. watch his videos, there is lots of helpful info. there. i live in Canada and just wondering the custom could be.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Yep this is the finale list after we talked on the phone several time, he was real nice and explained everything and just why I needed it. So being a true Nubie I made the list and thought it was the way to go. Then I found Lee at Youtees on YouTube and after watching every one of his videos on both of his YouTube channels I found him to be a real person with real knowledge and willing to help those that really have no clue, like me. Now thats a savings.

Ok so now if I were going in to screen printing to print 200 + shirts an hour I might need most of this list, but sence I am only looking at learning and doing fundraisers or projects for my kids schools maby a true job here or there this is to much stuff to start out with.

*But wate I have no clue as to how many shirts an hour anybody or equipment can do or what true equipment or supplies they might need.*

* "I have never done screen printing in my life, I am no expert"*

So please take my information as on the cuff and with a grain of salt. Just passing on what I know or find out and learn. 


Number needed to buy
Product name
Item # - has been removed
Price each
Price X Number of

0
Wide Screen Drying Cabinet - 3150.00
$3,150.00
$0.00

0
Exposure unit 4731 - 120v - screen size up to 47" x 31" (119.4 x 78.7cm) or two 23 x 31" - 2995.00
$2,995.00
$0.00

1
Exposure unit 4731 and Double wide Dri-Vault, VDC-513610. Includes wheels
$6,145.00
$6,145.00

2
Screen, Blank for 12" numbers, 23 x 47 with #81 white mesh, 12 - 15 nm
$75.00
$150.00

2
Screen, Blank for 8" numbers, 23 x 38 with #81 white mesh, 12 - 15 nm
$58.83
$117.66

2
Screen, Blank for 4/6" numbers, 23 x 31 with #81 white mesh, 12- 15 nm
$45.95
$91.90

2
Positives, Set of 4", 6", 8", 10" and 12" varsity ($30.00 for each 10" or 12" film)
$200.00
$400.00

1
Need Price - 2 Station 6 Color Freestanding Printer
$4,098.00
$4,098.00

0
4 Station 4 Color Freestanding Printer
$3,692.00
$0.00

0
4 Station 6 Color Freestanding Printer
$4,614.00
$0.00

2
20" x 24" (51x61 cm) Jumbo
$156.00
$312.00

2
27" x 32" (68.6x81.3 cm)
$214.00
$428.00

2
10.5"x17" (27x43 cm) Junior
$102.00
$204.00

2
15" x 17" (38 x 43 cm) Standard
$102.00
$204.00

2
17" x 21" (43 x 53 cm) Oversize
$129.00
$258.00

1
Double Sleeve 4"x19"(10.2x48.3cm)
$145.00
$145.00

1
Leg 5" x 24" (12.7 x 61 cm)
$145.00
$145.00

1
Long Sleeve 6"x19" (15.2x48.3cm)
$129.00
$129.00

1
Short leg 6" x 9" (15.2 x 22.9 cm)
$107.00
$107.00

1
Short Sleeve 4" x 9" (10x23 cm)
$81.00
$81.00

1
Thin Sleeve 2.63" x 26" (6.67 x 66 cm)
$130.00
$130.00

2
Mini 6" x 6" (15 x 15 cm)
$81.00
$162.00

2
Mini 9" x 8" (23 x 20 cm)
$81.00
$162.00

2
All Over Kit; XL w/ Head, Foam, Dbl Gas spring
$450.00
$900.00

2
Koozie - Four Up
$115.00
$230.00

1
Umbrella, Complete Kit
$231.00
$231.00

1
20" x 26" (51x 66 cm) With 120v Blower
$590.00
$590.00

0
Heavy Duty Pallet Arm
$75.00
$0.00

0
Spacer for corner clamp
$2.00
$0.00

2
Base attachment & Hat Platen
$161.00
$322.00

2
Pallet 3.563" x 2.5" (9x6 cm)- Smallest
$38.00
$76.00

2
Pallet 4.875" x 3" (12x8 cm) - Rounded
$38.00
$76.00

0
Pallet 5.125" x 3" (13x8 cm)- Rectangular
$38.00
$0.00

2
Screen 9" x 12" (23x30 cm) 110 mesh
$18.00
$36.00

2
Screen Holder, Squeegee & Screen
$102.00
$204.00

Quick Stretch (Jacket Hold Downs)

0
7.25"x16.375x11"(18x41x27cm) Umbrella QS
$129.00
$0.00

2
6" x 6" (15 x 15 cm) Mini QS
$106.00
$212.00

2
9" x 8" (23 x 20 cm) Mini QS
$106.00
$212.00

2
10.5" x 17" (27 x 43 cm) Junior QS
$106.00
$212.00

2
15" x 17" (38 x 43 cm) Standard QS
$106.00
$212.00

2
17" x 21" (43 x 53 cm) Oversize QS
$134.00
$268.00

2
Over pocket Attachment 3" x 5" (8x13cm)
$38.00
$76.00

2
Pocket Attachment 3.88" x 4" (9.8x10cm)
$49.00
$98.00

2
Polo Shirt Attachment 6.5" X 5" (17x13cm)
$54.00
$108.00

2
Zipper Attachments, 11 x 7.5" (28x19cm) Set of 2
$90.00
$180.00

2
Zipper Attachments, 16 x 7.5" (28x19cm) Set of 2
$90.00
$180.00

0
Pallet Rubber sold by linear ft. x 3' wide material
$39.00
$0.00

0
Rubber Mat Adhesive - 1 Mixed Pint
$20.00
$0.00

2
Squeegee tower set 2" (5 cm) use with all screens
$27.00
$54.00

2
Machine Oil, 4oz bottle
$4.95
$9.90

2
Grease, white lithium 1.5oz tube
$5.70
$11.40

Digi Numbers sets

1
12" Capacity, includes attachments, screens, squeegees, squeegee rests. One Color Total Kit
$2,200.00
$2,200.00

6
Custom Detent for special fonts and or custom spacing between numbers
$125.00
$750.00

0
DB-30, 120V (1) 2,000w heater. 30" Belt x 4' long (76 x 122cm) tabletop
$1,974.00
$0.00

0
Hat support rail. Fits EC-I, DB-120, DB-240
$42.50
$0.00

0
Leg set, 30"/76 cm (EC-1, DB-30, & DB-240)
$150.00
$0.00

1
DB-II-30, (2) 2,600w heaters. 30" Belt x 7' Long (76 x 213cm) w/ legs, 240V
$3,460.00
$3,460.00

1
Belt Tracking upgrade DB-30, DB-II-30 & EC-I
$95.00
$95.00

0
Red-Flash / 18"SQ (46cm) 120V / SH-Stand-ws
$699.00
$0.00

1
18"x24" (46 x 61cm) 240V / Auto-Flash SHHD-STAND
$2,194.00
$2,194.00

0
Optional Rotary Table with vented 15" x 17" pallets for R-Flash
$250.00
$0.00

12
Bulb, 28" (71 cm) Black UV, 40 Watt, (for H.O. Exposit E2331 & E4731) (ea.)
$38.00
$456.00

0
Exposure Calculator, 10 step Kiwo
$79.90
$0.00

1
Washout Booth 51" wide x 21" deep. (130 x 53 cm) All stainless including back.
$995.00
$995.00

1
VRS - Vastex Registration System / Manual, Rear Clamp, Universal - XX = pallet width, 14"- 21" (36 - 53 cm)
$897.00
$897.00

1
Extension plate for VRS using a 31" screen
$35.00
$35.00

1
Punch Board (Punch your own artwork)
$584.00
$584.00

2
Setup Sheets 20" x 24" (51 x 61 cm), pre-punched with registration holes (set of 12)
$29.00
$58.00

Screens

0
Aluminum 20" x 24" (51 x 61 cm) O.S. 1.375" (3.5 cm) Sq. Profile 110 Mesh, White 04-13-030 Each 24.00
$24.00
$0.00

0
Aluminum 20" x 24" (51 x 61 cm) O.S. 1.375" (4 cm) Sq. Profile 155 Mesh, White 04-13-109 Each 24.00
$24.00
$0.00

0
Aluminum 20" x 24" (51 x 61 cm) O.S. 1.375" (4 cm) Sq. Profile 196-200 Mesh, White 04-13-110 Each 25.00
$25.00
$0.00

0
Aluminum 20" x 24" (51 x 61 cm) O.S. 1.375" (4 cm) Sq. Profile 230 Mesh, Yellow 04-13-113 Each 28.00
$28.00
$0.00

6
Aluminum 20" x 24" (51 x 61 cm) O.S. 1.375" (4 cm) Sq. Profile 305 Mesh, Yellow 04-13-115 Each 28.00
$28.00
$168.00

6
Aluminum 20" x 27.5" (51 x 70 cm) 156 Mesh, White (great for sleeves) 04-13-116 Each 29.00
$29.00
$174.00

6
Aluminum 20" x 36" (51 x 92 cm) 110 Mesh (great for printing player names) 04-13-103 Each 53.00
$53.00
$318.00

Plastisol

0
Black Ink 04-13-124/123 Q14.18 G44.10
$44.10
$0.00

0
Bright Green Ink 04-13-132/131 Q18.64 G61.95
$61.95
$0.00

0
Golden Yellow Ink - High Opacity 04-13-134/133 Q26.34 G77.24
$77.24
$0.00

0
Navy Blue Ink 04-13-130/129 Q16.80 G63.70
$63.70
$0.00

0
Royal Blue Ink 04-13-128/127 Q16.80 G54.60
$54.60
$0.00

0
Scarlet Red Ink 04-13-126/125 Q19.69 G77.17
$77.17
$0.00

0
Soft Hand Transparent Base (3.78 liters) 04-13-120 - G50.23
$50.23
$0.00

0
White Ink - For Poly Blends 04-13-122/121 Q21.00 G71.40
$71.40
$0.00

Miscellaneous Supplies

0
Degreaser Concentrate 1:20 (.946 liters) 04-13-146 Quart 13.41
$13.41
$0.00

0
Dual Cure Emulsion (Finer Detail-slower exposure) (Two part) 04-13-141 Gallon 65.10
$65.10
$0.00

0
Dual Cure Emulsion (Finer Detail-slower exposure) (Two part) (.946 liters) 04-13-142 Quart 23.91
$23.91
$0.00

0
Emulsion Reclaimer (Stencil Remover) - Concentrate 1:20 (.946 liters) 04-13-148 Quart 24.15
$24.15
$0.00

0
Exposure Calculator, 10 step Kiwo 04-13-106 Each 81.58
$81.58
$0.00

0
Goop Scoops 04-13-019 Each 1.70
$1.70
$0.00

0
Ink Degrader, Plastisol (.946 liters) 04-13-140 Quart 13.02
$13.02
$0.00

0
On Press Wash (.946 liters) 04-13-138 Quart 10.40
$10.40
$0.00

0
Pallet Tape 18" Wide x 100 Yards 04-13-157 Roll 47.50
$47.50
$0.00

0
Polycol One Coat Emulsion (.946 liters) 04-13-144 Quart 20.98
$20.98
$0.00

0
Polyone emulsion 04-13-143 Gallon 62.95
$62.95
$0.00

0
Scoop Coater 15" (38 cm) with End Cap 04-13-016 Each 17.00
$17.00
$0.00

0
Screen Tape 2" Wide x 50 YARDS 04-13-156 Roll 6.67
$6.67
$0.00

0
Spot Cleaning Gun 110V 04-13-022 Each 150.00
$150.00
$0.00

0
Spot Remover Solvent for Gun (3.78 liters) 04-13-080 Gallon 53.42
$53.42
$0.00

0
Squeegees w/ 70 Durometer Blade (Price Per Inch) Wooden 04-13-029 Inch 1.50
$1.80
$0.00

0
Table Tack Pallet Adhesive Spray (.38 liters) 04-13-024 13 oz. 5.31
$5.31
$0.00

0
Temperature Laser Gun 04-01-047 Each 98.58
$98.58
$0.00

0
Vacuum Head Suction Tool - Fits 1.5" (3.8 cm) Hose 04-13-211 Each 159.00
$159.00
$0.00

2
Waterproof Film, Sheets, 11" x 17" (100shts)
$71.86
$143.72

2
Waterproof Film, Sheets, 13" x 18" (100shts)
$89.93
$179.86

2
Waterproof Film, Sheets, 13" x 19" (100shts)
$94.93
$189.86

0
Waterproof Film, Roll, 17" x 100'
$78.40
$0.00

1
Supply Kit SK-1000
$272.75
$272.75

1
Supply Kit SK-1001
$764.46
$764.46

1
Supply Kit SK-1002
$1,266.69
$1,266.69

1
Aluminum Screen Kit
$419.92
$419.92

Added up all Kit Items
12
Screens, Alum 20x24", 110 Mesh, White
$0.00

6
Screens, Alum 20x24", 196 Mesh, White
$0.00

8
Screens, Alum 20x24", 155 Mesh, White
$0.00

8
Screens, Alum 20x24", 230 Mesh, White
$0.00

3
Degreaser, Kiwo, concentrate 1:20 (1 qt.)
$0.00

3
Emulsion, Polycol one coat, Kiwo (1qt.)
$0.00

3
Scoop coater, 15" with end caps
$0.00

13
14" Wooden squeegees w/ 70 duro. Blade
$0.00

3
On press wash, Easiway #842 (1 qt.)
$0.00

3
Table tack adhesive, Spray Way 13oz can
$0.00

3
Ing degrader, Easiway #901 ( 1 qt.)
$0.00

3
Stencil remover, Kiwo concentrate 1:20 (1 qt)
$0.00

16
Goop scoops (2" width)
$0.00

2
Ink, Union ultra-black Plastisol (1 qt.)
$0.00

2
Ink, Union ultra-scarlet Red Plastisol (1 qt.)
$0.00

2
Ink, Union diamond White Plastisol (1qt.)
$0.00

2
Ink, Union royal Blue Plastisol (1qt.)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union golden Yellow Plastisol (1 qt.)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union ultra-bright Green Plastisol (1 qt.)
$0.00

2
Ten step exposure calculator, Kiwo
$0.00

2
Temperature gun, laser
$0.00

1
Spot cleaning gun (110 Volt)
$0.00

1
Spot remover solvent (1 gal)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union ultra-soft Black Plastisol (1 gal)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union diamond White Plastisol (1 gal)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union ultra-scarlet red Plastisol (1 gal)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union golden Yellow Plastisol (1 gal)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union ultra-royal Blue Plastisol (1 gal)
$0.00

1
Ink, Union ultra-bright Green Plastisol (1 gal)
$0.00

4
Screen block-out tape, 2" x 50 yds.
$0.00

2
Pallet Tape, 18" x 300'
$0.00

Machinery Shipping / The charge for a lift gate is $60

Total cost
$48,112.64 for 1 of each
$33,589.12 for my pounded down list
Shipping need to add in still
Crating need to add in still


Now add in crating and shipping charges the price could go up another $2-3,000.00.

Now for YouTees equipment, a full set up for less than a $1,000.00 starting out the gate. Now yes you are using your oven and not a flash cure and tunnel dryer but that a lone is almost $4,000.00 by my list of "What I needed to start screen printing on my own" so I was told.


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

WhiteTiger said:


> Yep this is the finale list after we talked on the phone several time, he was real nice and explained everything and just why I needed it. So being a true Nubie I made the list and thought it was the way to go. Then I found Lee at Youtees on YouTube and after watching every one of his videos on both of his YouTube channels I found him to be a real person with real knowledge and willing to help those that really have no clue, like me. Now thats a savings.
> 
> Ok so now if I were going in to screen printing to print 200 + shirts an hour I might need most of this list, but sence I am only looking at learning and doing fundraisers or projects for my kids schools maby a true job here or there this is to much stuff to start out with.
> 
> ...


anybody looking at that list can see it's for a major shop. there are also multiple options there.

i see 3 or 4 different presses. a few different exposure units and a few different drying units.

every possible platen is included and a ton of screen sizes and inks.


i have never used youtees equipment, and never willm because i don't care for his "conspiracy theory type attitude" that i get when i hear him speak or when i read his writings.

i do not doubt the quality of what you can do with his system. his video proves what he does.

but you can not honestly think you can compare the youtees system with that quote above.

no. it will not accomplish the same things. 

can you print shirts. yes. can you cure shirts. yes. will you do with the same speed and efficiency. NO. that's not knocking his products, that's just a reality.

i use a flash cure as a dryer. no tunnel. i wish i had one. the MOST i can possibly do for production is 60 pieces an hour. because it takes 1 minute per shirt under the flash unit.

a good conveyor, heck, even a cheap conveyor will do over 120 pieces an hour.


i wish you luck with your purchase. lee comes across as the kind of guy that will go to the end of the world to protect his reputation, so you should get pretty good customer service from him.

have fun!


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Thank you for pointing that out. Yes I was trying to cut the cost of the total investment but left them in list for my memory of why I chose the other choice. Yes this is a major shop list but the point I was trying to make was be carefull there are people out there that will try to get you to buy way more then you kneed for a startup and learning set up.

I have done a lot of looking and reading but I still have no true working knowledge of screen printing, this list of equipment is of very well talked about brands and there for would be a very good investment in equipment quality with a good production rate in the hands of a pro printer. For me this list is the start of my dream shop, something to shoot and save for. 
I to have seen what you say about Lee and his product, but you must say he is very passionate about what he does and to think that will lead to the passing of good and complete useful knowledge the practical kind.

As for the YouTees equipment, I had never thought it as a true bang on comparison. But that it has the ability to provide very tight registration even at the cost of some speed that will come in time. I find very useful and what I realy want and need.
There are a ton of screen printers in my area so the market is very competitive, I am not going to try and compete with them I am looking to fill the part of the market they seem to be too big for the 1sey 2sey full color request prints, if they will give me the time I will give them the price they can afford. It might work it might not. Never know tell one tries.


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

A beginners list is always smaller than a shop list. Seems like a few people here just like to write negative things about others. There is a book called How to print T-shirt for fun and profit by Scott Fresener. its teaches you how to build or buy equipment.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

I am sorry if that came across like that.
It was not my intention to bash, and yes my first list was very short but also very incomplet.

I have been showen the error of my was.

I am finding that the reason for the large soliction of equipment is to let each printer find what they like and works best for them based on there needs.

Just goes to show that untill you know something you must understand you know nothing.
I am tring to learn something so that I know something.

From here on I will be keeping to what I know or to ask about what I know I need to learn.

Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

That list is crazy. I know a guy with 3 presses (two autos) and he doesn't even have that much other stuff in his shop.

New, you could spend 10k and be WELL setup with some of the BEST stuff.

Used, I just spent $2700 on Press (Antec Legend 6/4), flash with Autobase (awesome) and Chaparral 12' dryer. Not much else to get but exposure unit and wash out booth... I went DIY with both of those and barely spent $100 bucks on them (if you are doing the same thing as Lee with the halogen light you can REALLY go cheap... but that is a very sub-par exposure unit). Lee has NO washout booth in his setup so you can hardly compare NOTHING to SOMETHING. 

But seriously, you can get some REAL quality equipment for pretty cheap... under 5k for sure! And honestly that would be getting set up as a FULL fledge REAL production shop.

For the hobbyist, Lee's and Knight-mfg is just fine... but you really should get a flash unit. He USED to have a vid on how he scored a flash for cheap at a thrift store. You don't see him talking about it anymore but I bet he uses it all the time. It's incredibly convenient vs his method but he's so anti-corporate he won't suggest buying real gear at all.


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

I find this forum is a great place to learn and share info. with each other. I have done some single color hobby printing with all home made equipment. I am curretly waiting on plastex ink from discovery lancer group. (it's waterbase ink plus they are 10 min away from my house) I never used this ink before but they explained to me in person how to cure it without a oven. Thanks for sharing!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Lee's and Knight Manufacturing underframe micro-registration or tuners system can be set up for commercial output. You need at least 2 platens to flash one while printing the other. I have a 3 platen line table press and although I don't do volume printing I could move fast if necessary. A good flashing system being a key factor.

But look at these videos
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3D9Ds6VUI&feature=player_embedded[/media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddE3sSpktqU[/media]In the second video just visualize that after printing the platen is taken away for flashing.

This is how his underframe registration is done
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQUiq_5Qla0[/media]It uses only 3 points of contact versus 5 on Lee's and Knight Mfr systems. 

But unlike in my line table system it is a little more difficult to load and unload shirts on the underframe registration system with "movable" or portable platens. Making the platens fixed will make loading/unloading shirts easier and faster.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Listen to Angel... he is very wise in the "non-carousel" methods of printing.

A line table or some variation is definitely the way to speed up production without a carousel. I was planning on adding a second to my setup but while shopping for a conveyor I found a killer deal on that Antec Legend and decided to take the plunge into being a "real" shop.


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

Great videos! I have never seen a system like that before. They are moving quickly. thanks for the links.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Sometimes Lee isn't rally "accurate" when he claims to be the first to dream up a on screen registration system... unless he is gonna claim the line table people stole his system too. (Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he did!)


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

WhiteTiger said:


> There are a ton of screen printers in my area so the market is very competitive, I am not going to try and compete with them I am looking to fill the part of the market they seem to be too big for the 1sey 2sey full color request prints, if they will give me the time I will give them the price they can afford. It might work it might not. Never know tell one tries.


If you realy want to go for the low volume market and save money and time, look into a cheep but good vinyl cutter and use that to make your templates with instead of burning and recovering screens, you just cut a template, attach it to the screen and use. when finished, you just peal the vinyl and wash. no emulsion to work with before or after .


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

DTFuqua said:


> If you realy want to go for the low volume market and save money and time, look into a cheep but good vinyl cutter and use that to make your templates with instead of burning and recovering screens, you just cut a template, attach it to the screen and use. when finished, you just peal the vinyl and wash. no emulsion to work with before or after .


I have to say... though that WORKS... in my opinion it is a mess and a pain. The adhesive reacts to the ink and causes it to be a pain to clean.

Plus, if you don't have plans to get a cutter then you are looking at another $200 bucks... at $200 bucks that is a lot of screens coated in emulsion (200?) before you get close to breaking even plus you need to coat screens anyway for finer more intricate designs.

OP, I noticed you said full color... low volume full color is going to be a little much. You might look at DTG but I think that is way more than you are looking for also.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Would a water based adhesive on stencil material work better? I have a $1200 cutter, Graphtec, and already have the stencil material as well as gobs of just plain ole vinyl and have gotten interested in a line table setup with a flash dryer. I don't believe the stencils would be good for very fine detail but it should be good for up to 15 - 20 pieces as some here have said they can get.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

You can actually do a lot more prints than that.

Remember stick to the shirt side of the screen. This is the best way but also the way that the ink reacts to the vinyl.

IF you take it off and clean it IMMEDIATELY it isn't AS bad. But I still got frustrated. It was amazing, as soon as that ink reacts the adhesive will not peel off with the vinyl, it stays on the mesh.

I have a robo craft pro (15" version) and used FDC 5 year vinyl.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

A question for anyone that is in nearly same situation. I am house bound due to medical reason for my wife. If I were to have sales people bring me leads, what would be a proper percentage to pay them for completed and paid for work?


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

LOL... I know we were already fairly off topic but WOW!

You would certainly be better served posting a new topic possibly even in a different section. But let me know if you do as I'd like to follow it!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Gilligan said:


> Listen to Angel... he is very wise in the "non-carousel" methods of printing.
> 
> A line table or some variation is definitely the way to speed up production without a carousel. I was planning on adding a second to my setup but while shopping for a conveyor I found a killer deal on that Antec Legend and decided to take the plunge into being a "real" shop.


Kevin, $2700 on an Antec Legend 6/4, flash with Autobase and Chaparral 12' dryer seems like a very good deal indeed. A deal I might grab myself if such were available here.

I am not a big scale printer. But what differentiates me from most line table users is that, due to limited space, I try to use it the way most people use the carousel press. Meaning, I do not load shirts on 30, 50 or hundreds of platens like most line table printers do then go about printing. 

Rather, I load shirts on a single platen like carousel users do, then print. Also unlike most line table users I have to flash. And unlike most line table users I hate using fixers (So, unlike most line table users who use fixers I have to fully cure waterbased ink). I then load a second shirt on the second platen and so forth. Actually I personally only have 3 platens and long planned on reducing it to 2 as my place gets "tighter".

And yes, early on I use a swing up type press similar to a 1 color 1 station press but have developed a modular platen system. With such system I can have practically an unlimited number platens restricted only by the space I can stand these platens. Even if the frame is clamped, changing frames after all the first color is done, I have practically an unlimited color system. My printing method is similar to this (but my frames were jiffy clamped and the platens are registered by a 3 point registration system).
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkoiZxlVofg&feature=related[/media]Printing with the youtees and knight system is inherently slower than a typical line table system as the underframe "tuners" simply guarantees that. However, properly setup with enough platens and properly laid out or streamlined with a good flashing and drying systems it could be commercially viable. I know because I tried using similar under frame registration.

As one gets more confident in printing on a non carousel press, one can try removing those tuners on 2 sides leaving only 2 tuners on 1 side and 1 tuner on an adjoining side.

I really prefer the more traditional line table but a good deal on a rotary is certainly very tempting.

As to a "real" shop I certainly agree that most line table systems being DIY, typical flashing with a heat gun or even a hair blower, all those half naked printers, dirty workspace, etc, etc, does not speak well for the line table systems. But large print shops covering *more than 10,000 square feet of space* the sheer number of line tables can be more expensive than even the larger rotary presses. 








The electrical wirings, the monthly electrical bills, the monthly lease, 6-12 month lease deposit, and the extra manpower, can make such a line table operation much more expensive to setup, operate and maintain. The multiple commercial flashcure system alone plus the rails on which they roll on are expensive. I see 4 of them above but there is at least a 5th for the table on the left).

The line table has its own use and advantages and there are fully automated line table systems that are as expensive as an automated rotary press setup.



blkblt said:


> Great videos! I have never seen a system like that before. They are moving quickly. thanks for the links.


Yes, printing on the line table system can be really fast but that is dictated by the number of platens. An underframe registration system that has registration "tuners" on all 4 sides takes away that speed. But nevertheless, certainly multiple platens that are properly setup with a flashing system offers more speed than a single platen alone. I think it is partially because youtees and knight are targeting people who have space for only one platen, no flash, etc., package their products a s such, so people think in those terms


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

To Lee's credit the "sponge" (that's all it is in the back) of his new setup acts as a spring. Allowing you to be "faster" than a regular 4 point (Knight-mfg) style system. You push against the sponge and then drop down the platen only having to make sure the sides line up. When the sponge "springs back" it pushes your back set of tuners which give you your front and back registration.

Problem is you can't use a push stroke with this setup which is pretty much deemed the best method of printing, not giving you the fatigue and potential for injury as a pull stroke does.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

The sponge acts as the 5th point of contact of sorts. You can reverse the press to do a push stroke but I think you can also do a push stroke as it is(with one hand on the frame and with proper ink viscosity). But I am not sure how durable the tuners are for commercial printing where you sometimes have to rush where the tuners will inevitably hit the platen.

Knight has 5 point of contact. 2 to the rear, 2 on both sides, 1 on the printer end of the frame. Slower to lay down the frame but easier to load/unload shirts.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Not to mention that with Lee's you have a serious point of failure with the way he builds his platen... it is mounted just along the back few inches so you have to use a "wedge" thing to keep it from flexing. This will obviously slow down loading and loading shirts considerably.

With knight-mfg's press I'd be willing to stand my 190 lb arse up on the end of that and not fear it breaking... I wouldn't BOUNCE on it but I'd bet it could hold. It's SOLID, and yes, you can quickly load and unload shirts... but that front reg would make laying down the screen slower. If you combine the two and do the sponge in the back with Jamie's heavy duty welded platen base you could move a good bit faster. I would push against it and hope to hold registration unless you reversed it... but then you'd totally blow the ability to quickly load and unload shirts unless you had a helper on the other side of the table.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

I spent some time exchanging emails with Lee from Youtee,s, and can say he,s very passionate about what he does!! Theres lots to be said about a man who will field your questions without ever spending a dime on his product!! Enough said!! Kudos Lee..


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Although he did not reply to my email about 2 years ago, including a follow up (based on his videos) there is no doubt that he is passionate about what he sells or does.


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

Gilligan! Did you buy both press and tries them out?


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

blkblt said:


> Gilligan! Did you buy both press and tries them out?


No... but it is a sheer matter of physics.

Find someone even half knowledgeable to dispute it and I am more than glad to listen to the argument.

A piece of wood put together like a sideways L will undoubtedly fail if NOT supported by a second piece under the front. This is why he uses that wedge. You can't argue that it's not weak if the man himself jams in a wedge to keep it from flexing.

I DO own Jamie's setup and I would be willing to stand on it.

His setup uses a decent size plate to mount more in the MIDDLE of the platen.

Check it out:

















That is robust. Lee's support is all the way at the back end of his platen.

Here is a pic of what I'm speaking of. bottom left image is the "wedge" that you have to stick in after you load each shirt to keep the platen from flexing/breaking.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> No... but it is a sheer matter of physics.
> 
> Find someone even half knowledgeable to dispute it and I am more than glad to listen to the argument.
> 
> ...


 





Does the middle platen support mount on the knight system cause any difficulty in loading? this really isnt optimal as the shirt will bunch at this middle point under the platen and depending on shirt size could cause some issues!! 5 point registration will also slow things down... If the mount was redesigned further forward with a 2 point reg system like the home cash biz press it would really be something... 3 very cool low cost presses regardless.. I make all my own stuff including dtgs and have experimented with the different reg systems (3 point line table type) (microtuners on the screen) and the two point... the microtuners however work best when using the dtg/screen print hybrid (screening the underbase and dtg over) by tunining to the dtg platen sides like youtees invention...

I use the two point registration brackets.. (like the home cash business) press.. here is the website.. if go go down to the center of the page you can watch the vid and see how this registration works!! its by far the simplest to use and remove from screens.. Home Cash Business - Screen Printing Systems


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Jeff, I didn't have any problems with Jamie's system but then again I didn't do too many jobs before moving to the Antec Legend. I actually have more problems with it and making sure the shirt goes UNDER the arm every time. You get faster as you go. But bunching wasn't really an issue, I think Jamie did his homework on laying it out to make it be a good balance between strength and usability.

That system that HCB has is pretty slick... better not show Lee that... he will probably say they stole that from him, trash them and send threatening emails like he did to Jamie and a few other guys on ebay. LOL

His "passion" had him this || close to a harassment case!


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> Jeff, I didn't have any problems with Jamie's system but then again I didn't do too many jobs before moving to the Antec Legend. I actually have more problems with it and making sure the shirt goes UNDER the arm every time. You get faster as you go. But bunching wasn't really an issue, I think Jamie did his homework on laying it out to make it be a good balance between strength and usability.
> 
> That system that HCB has is pretty slick... better not show Lee that... he will probably say they stole that from him, trash them and send threatening emails like he did to Jamie and a few other guys on ebay. LOL
> 
> His "passion" had him this || close to a harassment case!


I think everyone gets a little excited (myself included) when you see or feel your stuff has been reproduced by profiteers in some form or fashion similar to your original concept.. I know this all to well with my dtg designs which i provided for free plans, then you see them up forsale everywhere.. kinda puts the kabosh on your intentions for helping people... I myself have since stopped providing this kind of info anymore and keep my innovations to my business use.. its alot easier for the pride to handle this way Most innovators/inventors are very prideful people and strong minded/willed and sometimes hurt themselves more than its worth by getting upset.. Have you ever seen the movie "Flash of Genius" it regards the inventor of the interminent wiper on cars.. it ruined the inventors life when ford stole his invention, but he fought till the end and finally got paid... great flick on the reallity of inventors and business thats all so true!!

I think all of these low cost presses are very innovative, the all around most functional design seems to be the HCB 2 point reg with there steel base and similar platen support to standard presses.. probably a combination of many different systems in one but a great design never the less

the main point to look at here is these systems allow an entry into something that many cant afford at commercial price points, this sends many on there way to suceeding in there biz models at a entry level price... another misconception is that many people think commercial equiptment is always the best and i can assure you this is not always the case in many instances.. there are alot of manufactures that make equipt of this nature because they manufacture something similar in nature and have the equipt to do so (basically adding another product to there line up) However not all have a background in actual printing or equiptment... always good to do your homework and find out whom is the true manufacturer that has a background in the biz and came up with something that furthers there craft..JMHO...


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Agreed... but not everyone "STOLE" his idea.

And if that was the ONLY people he has gone off and attacked it would be one thing.... but I've seen him attack users on here that were simply providing information on how the DIY'er could build a similar press because they were not able to contact Lee. After seeing him attack very well intentioned people that were sharing knowledge FREELY I was really turned off and opted not to buy his press/setup.

I simply spoke up in defense of this guy who was just trying to help others and he ended up making a ranting video about ME! LOL

No one was making a dime off of "his" idea which isn't any kind of "flash of genius" (yes, good flick). They were simply wanting to DIY and maybe expand/make it better. That is what I was after.

We applaud people that build a 4 color DIY carousel press via plans shared on the web but we defend a guy that goes belligerent on a guy that freely shares plans to build something similar to "his" press.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> Agreed... but not everyone "STOLE" his idea.
> 
> And if that was the ONLY people he has gone off and attacked it would be one thing.... but I've seen him attack users on here that were simply providing information on how the DIY'er could build a similar press because they were not able to contact Lee. After seeing him attack very well intentioned people that were sharing knowledge FREELY I was really turned off and opted not to buy his press/setup.
> 
> ...


I have no history of the situation, just speaking from my own personal experiences.. nor do i know any of the press builders personally.. nor am i judging the He/said she/said stuff.. Im simply interested in the functionality of the equipt for price vs finished product cost..

you are always going to have people building and coping equipt for there personal use, and i am all for this as long as its for there personal use and not for profit/resale of equipt..

I think the equipt, is what should be judged from different suppliers based on user experience, not the creator or there misgivings.. Im sure we could find faults or preceived faults in every innovator in the world if this were the topic.. howard hughs, steve jobs, etc etc fact is there not selling there personality, I think many of us would be in trouble if we were only selling our personality!! If i based my purchase decisions on the innovator or company rather than the products function,i prolly wouldnt buy many items or own a car,fly in a plane, wear a certain brand, etc etc.. again it comes down to the equipt function and support from a retailer and what its doing for your biz...


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

But there are people that do... I am obviously one of them. I won't wear certain brands if I'm not a fan of thier policies. I won't eat at certain restaurants if they make certain opinions public that I disagree with.

I personally do think that when you are small you ARE selling your personality. If I am a jerk guess how many customers will want to deal with me? It is precisely my personality (and ability to do the job well) that people continue to use me. I build a repore with my clients. This is actually causing me some issues on expanding as my customers don't want some random guy going in their office (I do computer/network consulting) they want ME to show up. Sure I send someone in a jam but I certainly can't just retire and expect to just pay a tech and not lose my customers... especially if the tech doesn't have a personality!

The only beef Lee has with Jamie is that he claims Jamie told him in an email that he "saw someone using a similar setup online somewhere." Of course Lee claims that was him. But either way Jamie has gone WAY beyond what Lee was doing as far as construction goes. They are different systems completely using similar base theories (on screen registration). Lee's is made out of wood and repurposed drawer track parts and Knight-mfg manufactures the parts out of steel and aluminum and powder coats it. No air conditioning "metal" tape. Also Jamie doesn't go around trying to steal customers... he just does what he does and if people find him all the better. It's a small part of what knight-mfg does. Lee actually drives lots of people to his site... anytime he goes cookoo he says there is a big influx of interest in his system. LOL

Both systems ARE good. I have no beef with what Lee has built. I think it's very functional and will produce great work. Both of them are not going to give you the speed of a full production press... but neither does a manual give you the speed of an automatic. There are always trade offs in this business. Good thing about these two presses is that you DO get tight registration for a SMALL investment vs some of the other "CHEAP" (read: cheaply made) carousel presses out there.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> But there are people that do... I am obviously one of them. I won't wear certain brands if I'm not a fan of thier policies. I won't eat at certain restaurants if they make certain opinions public that I disagree with.
> 
> I personally do think that when you are small you ARE selling your personality. If I am a jerk guess how many customers will want to deal with me? It is precisely my personality (and ability to do the job well) that people continue to use me. I build a repore with my clients. This is actually causing me some issues on expanding as my customers don't want some random guy going in their office (I do computer/network consulting) they want ME to show up. Sure I send someone in a jam but I certainly can't just retire and expect to just pay a tech and not lose my customers... especially if the tech doesn't have a personality!
> 
> ...


 
Fair enough, everyone has there opinion on "policy" you must be very limited in what you buy or wear,eat? some folks may think the person you might label as a jerk as a gentleman? food for thought.. Some may think that your public thoughts are defamation? Is this any better than what you feel has been done to others your defending or feel were wronged, or misjudged- IYO? I think an honest review of owned equipt itself in question would be the better approach/stance...

Some products are just simply better than others and cant be done without, either in budjet or function formats, some of there creators policys i dont agree with.. Im wondering do you own a phone and what brand? how about a car? do you recycle aswell, being a computer tech you must know that most of this ends up in a landfill? how do you feel about that and whats your policy on this? doesnt seem to stop you from being a computer tech? What about the very nature/chemistry of some of the products requirred in printing regarding envioronmental concerns and there policy? I think this a much bigger policy issue than a one man entreprenuers personality traits..IMHO.. I cant justify buying a product on a persons personality, this is not what your buying and most have sales staff, engineers with good personality Your analogy is referencing a traveling service tech business and is two different animals...

I just cant see your point here, seems you must be really upset at this person.. granted you never purchased the equiptment for review! anyway getting off the topic of the equipt opinions to personal trait based purchases..interesting.. seems more to this than meets the eye!!


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, in Lee's case... he IS your support. If you have a problem you deal with Lee... no one else. So you are buying him. Like when you buy a Honda... you buy more than a hunk of metal with an engine and wheels. You are buying a brand and with that brand comes it's history.

I have done a lot of research in to the subject that is why I feel somewhat "qualified" to answer the questions on these topics. Even though I never owned it. Has Lee ever owned the Ryonet Silver press? I doubt it, but holy cow the guy goes on for hours (literally) about how it's junk and how terrible the people that sell it are.

That being said... I'm not saying I'm Gandhi when it comes to my principles (granted, Gandhi wasn't Gandhi when you really get down to it.) Sure I have a car, sure I probably wear clothes made in sweat shops... but honestly I try to be conscious of it as much as I can and respond accordingly. For the record I haven't shopped in Walmart in probably 8 years.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> Well, in Lee's case... he IS your support. If you have a problem you deal with Lee... no one else. So you are buying him. Like when you buy a Honda... you buy more than a hunk of metal with an engine and wheels. You are buying a brand and with that brand comes it's history.
> 
> I have done a lot of research in to the subject that is why I feel somewhat "qualified" to answer the questions on these topics. Even though I never owned it. Has Lee ever owned the Ryonet Silver press? I doubt it, but holy cow the guy goes on for hours (literally) about how it's junk and how terrible the people that sell it are.
> 
> That being said... I'm not saying I'm Gandhi when it comes to my principles (granted, Gandhi wasn't Gandhi when you really get down to it.) Sure I have a car, sure I probably wear clothes made in sweat shops... but honestly I try to be conscious of it as much as I can and respond accordingly. For the record I haven't shopped in Walmart in probably 8 years.


What about the computer land fills? would you prefer to buy equiptment and get support from someone with a history in SP, or buy equipt and get no support from someone without a sp knowledge? more food for thought, and this is important as a start up SP.. 

I dont have a horse in this race so im not biased to any equipt, but again i think the true comparison can only be done by owners/users of any equipt in question!! We could all point out misgivings or unquailified video sales speaches but equiptment speaks for itself regarding function..

you could look at pictures and read manuals day in and out..the actual use of the different products will give you a great control to compare without guessing what is better based on components used in its assembly... Bottom line is R.O.I, best of luck on your endeavors


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

german13 said:


> What about the computer land fills?
> 
> I dont have a horse in this race so im not biased to any equipt, but again i think the true comparison can only be done by owners/users of any equipt in question!! We could all point out misgivings or unquailified video sales speaches but equiptment speaks for itself regarding function..
> 
> you could look at pictures and read manuals day in and out..the actual use of the different products will give you a great control to compare without guessing what is better based on components used in its assembly... Bottom line is R.O.I, best of luck on your endeavors


COMPLETELY AGREE! If you reread my post I clearly state that I think you can do some quality work with Lee's stuff. Nothing wrong with the equipment in and of itself... just he's a little off and I personally feel that Jamie's platen setup has to be stronger and sturdier.

RE: Computer Land fills... well... I rarely throw anything away... never know when someone will need that old part from X computer.  Also there is an organization that called me up and will pay me per lb for old computer gear... so I horde it. I have a client that pics up my old PSU's that I change out and pulls the copper out of them.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> COMPLETELY AGREE! If you reread my post I clearly state that I think you can do some quality work with Lee's stuff. Nothing wrong with the equipment in and of itself... just he's a little off and I personally feel that Jamie's platen setup has to be stronger and sturdier.
> 
> RE: Computer Land fills... well... I rarely throw anything away... never know when someone will need that old part from X computer.  Also there is an organization that called me up and will pay me per lb for old computer gear... so I horde it. I have a client that pics up my old PSU's that I change out and pulls the copper out of them.


KEY words here... "I THINK" " I PERSONALLY FEEL".. 
these are opinion based assumptions, without actually testing both or any equipt side by side!! Could also do without the "Hes a little off statement".. Theres not many statues of critics but there are a few of these folks whom were considered out of the norm..



Comparison to considerations of normality
 
Anglo-Iranian charity activist Camila Batmanghelidjh, who is well known for her flamboyant clothes.


A person who is simply in a "fish out of water" situation is not, by the strictest definition, an eccentric since, presumably, he or she may be ordinary by the conventions of his or her native environment.
Eccentrics may or may not comprehend the standards for normal behavior in their culture. They are simply unconcerned by society's disapproval of their habits or beliefs. Many of history's most brilliant minds have displayed many unusual behaviors and habits.
Some eccentrics are pejoratively considered "cranks", rather than geniuses. Eccentric behavior is often considered whimsical or quirky, although it can also be strange and disturbing. Many individuals previously considered to be merely eccentric, such as aviation magnate Howard Hughes, have recently been retrospectively-diagnosed as actually suffering from mental disorders (obsessive–compulsive disorder in Hughes's case). Probably the best example was Serbian physicist and inventor Nikola Tesla. Another famous eccentric was renowned theoretical physicist Albert Einstein; his eccentricities included picking up discarded cigarette butts off the street in order to circumvent his doctor's ban on buying tobacco for his pipe, piloting his sailboat on windless days ("for the challenge"), and lecturing his 8-year-old nephew on physics (including a 2-hour exposition on the Newtonian properties of soap bubbles).
Other people may have eccentric taste in clothes, or have eccentric hobbies or collections which they pursue with great vigor. They may have a pedantic and precise manner of speaking, intermingled with inventive wordplay.
Many individuals may even manifest eccentricities consciously and deliberately, in an attempt to differentiate themselves from societal norms or enhance a sense of inimitable identity; given the overwhelmingly positive stereotypes (at least in pop culture and especially with fictional characters) often associated with eccentricity, detailed above, certain individuals seek to be associated with this sort of character type. However, this is not always successful as eccentric individuals are not necessarily charismatic. And the individual in question may simply be dismissed by others as just seeking attention.
_Extravagance_ is a kind of eccentricity, related to abundance and wastefulness; refer to description in _hyperbole_.
*[edit] Characteristics*

Psychologist Dr. David Weeks mentions people with a mental illness "suffer" from their behavior while eccentrics are quite happy.[6][7] He even states eccentrics are _less_ prone to mental illness than everyone else.



According to studies, there are eighteen distinctive characteristics that differentiate a healthy eccentric person from a regular person or someone who has a mental illness (although some may not always apply). The first five are in most people regarded as eccentric:[6]

Nonconforming attitude
Idealistic
Intense curiosity
Happy obsession with a hobby or hobbies
Knew very early in his or her childhood they were different from others
Highly intelligent
Opinionated and outspoken
Unusual living or eating habits
Not interested in the opinions or company of others
Mischievous sense of humor
Love the recycle plan!!!


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Sure... don't disagree with you.

But certainly you can look at a piece of equipment and say "that's a point of failure" without having tried it out.

Would you suggest that you need to test out whether you can support your embroidery machine by the threads that are on it? Or would you be confident enough that the threads would snap and your machine would crash to the ground if you tried?

If I had to buy a house and could not go look at it and prices were relatively similar. I'd pick the one that is built out of brick vs the one that is built out of wood. This quickly transitions to screen printing gear. How many press manufactures build wooden presses? How many higher end presses use aluminum platens over wooden ones? There are reasons for these "upgrades"... you don't have to put it in your hand to say that you are fairly confident one would be stronger over the other. The pics I've posted alone are incredibly hard to dispute.

I've still said that quality work could be done on both.

This is where the personality comes in. Sure kooky can be "fun"... but it can also mean that you end up with a guy with a loaded weapon showing up at a speech in Arizona that is a little "kooky".

Watch the Catspit guy. He's kooky, he's not even an incredibly good/knowledgeable printer... BUT, you can get more out of his 6-10 min videos on a subject than you can from Lee rambling on for 20 mins+ on the same subject. Mainly because the Catspit guy doesn't have to tell you about how he also builds custom street luge and how he's printed in every shop in the world and on every piece of gear... see, I've already wasted more time talking about it here than he should in his videos. 

Honestly, watch a Lee printing info video and transcribe the actual information on the subject you are watching. Then make a no none-sense video of the same thing. 10% of the time needed to get the same info. I'm sure you can tell from these postings, I ramble on at times... but hell... even I don't go on as long as he can.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> Sure... don't disagree with you.
> 
> But certainly you can look at a piece of equipment and say "that's a point of failure" without having tried it out.
> 
> ...


Depends what the thread material is!! You can have the best material known to man, if its not properly designed/built its useless.. this could be as simple as production speed between different designs.. Im going with the one that gives me the best R.O.I regardless of materials of the make.. As far as wooden presses! well there are numerous line tables built from wood in the asian market and several of us prolly wear these name brands that are printed on these very presses everyday as the large corps tend to use this method due to labor cost.. It also appears that all these presses in this arena use a "wood platen" along with many rotary presses.. I wouldnt get hung up on material but rather its function/design/ production capabilities.. the fact is at the end of the day bottom line and production is what matters.. 

Looks are deceiving my friend, this coming from direct experience in the manufacturing sector starting as a fabricator ending in design over the last 20 years.... It all depends on the application, if you wanted to use the single station press for a dual purpose such as jack stands for your car then maybe theres some merit.. but its intent is holding a shirt, and withstanding hobby use printing on a single station.. you know the saying dont judge a book by its cover... Stickers,paint,steel and pretty covers dont make the function of a product any better its in the design functionality,ease of use,.. I could point out many faults in the design of your choice from and end user point of view but dont care to do so, due the fact it achieves what it is supposed to do at a cheap price point.. 

I dont think it really fair to bash someones good intent/videos because you disprove of there content/ or speakers interests.. fact is the people that are viewing are receiving FREE Knowledge and will leave better educated than when they arrived.. you seem to have a personal vendetta against this fellow? First off comparing equipt that you have never used! and going as far as insinuating his behavior as that of a madman wanting to gun someone down!! A little to far i think..and this is certainly "Defamation of character"... Again i dont have a horse in this race so im not biased to any press here but if i were in a position in which i needed to purchase a one station press of this nature it would be the HCB press i mentioned in the video with the two point registration that never touches the platen or garment/ simple to install and remove/ with production orientated design.. awesome design and function.. IMHO..... (take this to the next level and incorporate it into a line table style press and this is "real production" from a very reasonably cheap set up that will hold tight reg...) If your intent is to claim something is better, im sure you can do this with some good side by side comparisons rather than the character assasination im wittnessing... I say this with no direspect but this does not look good from a credibility standpont and to the many readers of these threads


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Again don't disagree with you completely.

BUT... is it wrong to knock a guy who spends 80% of his vids knocking other people? I mean I'm all for being fair but in being fair don't we have to let what is good for the goose be good for the gander? I mean, he trashes Ryonet and many others so bad "marketeers" is what he spends half his videos talking about. If he bashes their character than why can't someone say something about his.

I merely say that his personality is one that is so "passionate" that it scares me. Do I have a personal vendetta against the guy? Umm... not as much as he had one against me... I mean the guy put up a video flaming me and a fellow t-shirtforum member and Rodney. Hell.... he slammed this entire forum actually. The trick is... when I switch tabs from this forum to another page or when I hop up and leave my computer... I'm done with it. I've moved on and am dealing with something else. He obviously doesn't. He carries his "vendetta" even in to his hobby as he shot a street luge video where he had to mention me in it even.

Sometimes you leave your BS at the keyboard. I'm not saying be a keyboard hero by any means... what I say on a computer I will say to your face (well, with Lee... I'd make sure it was a well lit populated public place... maybe with security close by.) Either way... don't be two faced but don't take life in general that serious. Like you said... I get the inventor jazz... but no one was ripping him off for profit at that point.

BTW, if my "assumptions" are wrong about his platen not being as stout as Jamie's then explain to me why he must use a wedge in the front of his platen every time he loads a shirt?


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

Gilligan said:


> Watch the Catspit guy. He's kooky, he's not even an incredibly good/knowledgeable printer... BUT, you can get more out of his 6-10 min videos on a subject than you can from Lee rambling on for 20 mins+ on the same subject. Mainly because the Catspit guy doesn't have to tell you about how he also builds custom street luge and how he's printed in every shop in the world and on every piece of gear... see, I've already wasted more time talking about it here than he should in his videos.


just for the record...

johnathan rocks..

but he needs a haircut. really bad.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Naptime said:


> just for the record...
> 
> johnathan rocks..
> 
> but he needs a haircut. really bad.


But you would probably agree... he gets kind of "out there" some times. Personality wise.

But hey, the man gives some fairly solid advice... especially for those just starting out.


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

Gilligan said:


> But you would probably agree... he gets kind of "out there" some times. Personality wise.
> 
> But hey, the man gives some fairly solid advice... especially for those just starting out.


that's what i like about him. his advice and quick tips are solid. 

but he entertains me.

when i watch videos from lee, i want to put a plastic bag over my head because he just goes on and on with that monotonous ben stein voice.

when i watch videos from bob at silkscreennow, he stammers alot. and says ummm and ugghhh alot... but, he gives solid tips as well. his vids were my re-introduction into this business. and i'm glad because he really did dummy it down and make it easy.

now of course there are things that are more advanced that i am still trying to learn. and i'm sure that already i have surpassed bobs abilities. 

now he's doing videos on how to build an L.Ron Hubbard Reading room "mission" to help spread the word of scientology. 

i don't want to get into a religious debate... but umm.... he probably coulda kept that video someplace else than on his screen printing channel. lol


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Gilligan said:


> Again don't disagree with you completely.
> 
> BUT... is it wrong to knock a guy who spends 80% of his vids knocking other people? I mean I'm all for being fair but in being fair don't we have to let what is good for the goose be good for the gander? I mean, he trashes Ryonet and many others so bad "marketeers" is what he spends half his videos talking about. If he bashes their character than why can't someone say something about his.
> 
> ...


I'm not aware of the history of all the propaganda, and really have no interest in it.. I was just referencing what i read in the few pages of this post and it doesnt seem appropriate for anyone.. you folks need to shake hands and call a truce..

I dont have any doubt that the press you mention is greater in strength.. and im sure the youtees wedge is to eliminate flex and was designed this way for reason as a lesser evil more user friendly regarding loading and better production with less points of contact with the spring compression and easier screen to platen application.. 
HOWEVER you trade function/ production speed IMHO between the designs, seems the knight is focused on strength and less parts from a manufacturing standpoint rather than function, fast mass production = fast profit margins.. 

I can assure you the wood set up takes far longer to build than the welded model (anybody and there brother can go to the local weld shop and have a couple sticks of 1 inch tube welded with a plate mount very cheaply including youtees if he felt it a better design app, and it would certainly benefit his profit margin to do so!! A person with a mig welder could build this in 15 minutes with off the shelf parts!! The center mount platen support is not ideal as i mentioned the shirt will bunch at this center point and on smaller size shirts becomes an issue, along with the five point registration that touches the garment/platen will slow down production, and have a bigger margin of error..IMO 

this type of press can be very easily built at home using 2 mailbox mount plates and 5"" post one plate to the table, one to the platen post cut to desired inch height in between (mounted platen on one plate) easy and cheap...lacking function however

This is why i think the HCB press has it all, great function with the two point registration and great strength with the welded frame that does not have the center mount platen plate but more traditional rotary design which does not interfere with shirt loading on smaller sizes.. AGAIN JMHO from a design standpoint..


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

LOL... you said scientology, what does any of this have to do with religion? (I make that joke and I'm an atheist!)

Yeah, his "quick tips" do remind me of Lee though... "I'm gonna try and keep these short to like maybe 3-5 mins." 7 minutes later.... LOL 

I've watched quite a few catspit videos and have even watched some a couple of times in a row to make sure or have come back.

NEVER will I EVER do that with Lee's stuff... though, honestly I do put on some Lee videos when I'm having trouble getting to sleep. HONEST truth! I find myself about 20 minutes later waking up to put the laptop up... thanks Lee!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I've watched Lee's video 2 years back and they're informative but indeed too long. But that is his style and not the real problem. The way I see is this: having made so many claims and comments about so many things and so many people he is bound to get a dose of his own medicine. I think that is what happened.

His press is innovative though. And a truce would be nice.

Jeff, what is the 2 point registration bracket? Home Cash Business - Screen Printing Systems looks like Bob Mongiello

I have exchanged quite a few email with Jamie encouraging him to look into commercial line table press but he is not interested. Anyway, about Jamie's design, there will be loading problems for smaller sized shirts. If I were jamie, I'd modify it to something like my portable press where even smaller shirts can slide smoothly through the entire length of the platen without any obstruction.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

BroJames said:


> I've watched Lee's video 2 years back and they're informative but indeed too long. But that is his style and not the real problem. The way I see is this: having made so many claims and comments about so many things and so many people he is bound to get a dose of his own medicine. I think that is what happened.
> 
> His press is innovative though. And a truce would be nice.
> 
> Jeff, what is the 2 point registration bracket? Home Cash Business - Screen Printing Systems looks like Bob Mongiello


Scroll down to the video, he explains this reg set up!! I have also seen this on some line table set ups.. It does work great!!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Yes, that's Bob.

I have not tried that but I have seen and posted a video somewhere of someone using the concept as in Bob's video. Instead of 2 pieces his main registration consist of 1 piece metal with 2 holes. Requires very accurate machining.

I have doubts of Bob's 2 piece metal will hold registration as the frame is moved up and down the registration post.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

BroJames said:


> Yes, that's Bob.
> 
> I have not tried that but I have seen and posted a video somewhere of someone using the concept as in Bob's video. Instead of 2 pieces his main registration consist of 1 piece metal with 2 holes. Requires very accurate machining.
> 
> I have doubts of Bob's 2 piece metal will hold registration as the frame is moved up and down the registration post.


Yes, Accurate machining is key but only critical in the holes for the reg posts.. but well worth the results.. I would be interested in seeing the vid of the similar set up you mention.. if you get a chance post it up..


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I am searching for it but I am quite certain I posted just about a month or so ago.


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

yep that's the first place bob was involved with.

if i remember what i read/heard correctly, homecashbusiness was him and his daughter or other family members.

then he was ousted.

and now he has silkscreennow and made a new type of press (which, sadly, is what i have) and the flash dryer.

his videos were informative, and the press is decent for what it is. the flash dryer is great. 

the press is at least making me money to save up for a legit press.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Keep your eye out for a good deal on an Antec Legend or a Vastex 2000 HD... can't go wrong with either press.

I got lucky... it can happen. I woke up in my hotel room while at a convention out of town where I was lucky enough to find a dryer to go look at (and bought). Low and behold my subscription to this forums classified ad came in my email and it had a Legend for a great price. I said, "yeah but where is it" Holy crap... it was right across the river from where I was!! I have a truck big enough to bring it back and I'll be next door picking up the dryer... AWESOME!

Boom! Don't get much luckier than that... but I used to be one of those guys always on the outside looking in on people that find deals like that thinking... yeah, but that crap ain't gonna happen to me! LOL

Technically I got paid about 1300 bucks to go down there and check out that gear... now I paid 2700 for the gear, but I'd have been happy to pay that AND rent the truck and drive down there to get it. So I sort of got the gear for 1400 with a potential of making 1300 if the gear wasn't what I wanted.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Sound's like you're destined to have that Antec.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Jeff, looks like I remembered incorrecty. It is the same. I posted it here http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t169975.html to avoid OT. However, I do wonder which is the chicken and which is the egg. But the latino one seems to be shorter and looks sturdier.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Gilligan said:


> Sometimes Lee isn't rally "accurate" when he claims to be the first to dream up a on screen registration system... unless he is gonna claim the line table people stole his system too. (Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he did!)


 


Let's talk about "accuracy" Gilligan....you keep coming one here trying to undo the FACT that I am the one who developed On Screen Micro-tuners. It is not the same as line print tech and I never claimed to invent line tech. As usual, that does not stop you from misleading anybody who is willing to be misled.

WHY you cannot stand the fact that I developed them is beyond me. Back in 1990 when I came up with this, YOU were in grade school or maybe at home with your Hotwheels. And WHILE you were pretending to be in a real and fast car...I was NOT pretending to be a real screen printer with real and unique ideas...I was already one. I was hard at work benefiting others with a level of work I believe you are not capable of. With the real and proven ability to do so.
Now...for quite some time....you seem to have plenty of time to be a troll on this forum and a high percentage of your posts offer nothing that matters. YOU go to the negative and then(as this thread also shows) are the one to take things off topic. Read the title of the thread and then read your own posts.
One of my customers (who actually; unlike you; owns and uses my equipment)asked me if you were "a whore for knight mfg". I think so given some of your posts linking people to him. Which is interesting as he has only stolen my ideas. Your support of him is based on spite for me and NOTHING you can put forth as any real screen print knowledge. HE sure does not have any and he even admits that in that he warns his ebay customers he had NO videos to explain how to use ideas he stole. Now you go ahead and try "standing on" the front of his six shallow and mislaced screws platen" It will snap off.. I use 12 al the way through screws and I HAVE stood on mine(long ago as a test)and it did NOT break. once again you assume what you do not have or know.
Hmmm...I have over 40 videos. YOU have none..none take that inevitable chance that some would not like you or what you say if you did. 

A real screen printer who is honest WILL explain how things work instead of make excuse for not doing so. You (and Jaimie) skip that risk as you have also skipped the skills base that even makes it possible. BUT you guys have plenty of time to talk crap behind my back. Blah...blah...blah. 

Those who rip off my MT idea also made it worse...no lock nut is even necessary if they are made correct. But YOU(and German...) want to make sure that you call attention to what you(in your ignorance and bias)'think' are the drawbacks of my system; while your buddy creates dumbed down equipment. Which you neither catch or post pix of. You are nothing more than the loud guy at the end of the parade.

I feel sorry for anybody listening to you. You have not earned the right to talk as you do...mostly about things you do NOT know the facts about. THAT is a VERY big reason I am available to coherent people. HOPEFULLY...to keep them off go nowhere paths that a few like you want to be on.

As long as Rodney allows YOU to be so off topic and do little more than instigate from your ignorance backed ego ...I will drop by 'now and then' to clear things up. You have not done what I have done and you will not do what I do. it is not false pride I speak from, but facts observed and real skills earned. You are too busy trolling and pretending. Amidst the 'opinions'...here are some MORE facts for anybody who cares. I just do not have the forum time you have...I'm too busy being a real screen printer and trying to keep guys like you from watering it down with the pretense you worship.

So...you say I spend 80 percent of my time slamming other presses/people...and then you say I spend half my time doing that. Which is it??? NEITHER. But some will believe you and (like German.) actually dedicate a lot of time going back and forth with you. It is like watching two guys play tennis with one racket and half a ball. I don't think people come here for that?

Why don't you go really DO something that takes any ingenuity instead of comeiung here to be 'the King who wears no clothes'???(google it).


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Gilligan said:


> Jeff, I didn't have any problems with Jamie's system but then again I didn't do too many jobs before moving to the Antec Legend. I actually have more problems with it and making sure the shirt goes UNDER the arm every time. You get faster as you go. But bunching wasn't really an issue, I think Jamie did his homework on laying it out to make it be a good balance between strength and usability.
> 
> That system that HCB has is pretty slick... better not show Lee that... he will probably say they stole that from him, trash them and send threatening emails like he did to Jamie and a few other guys on ebay. LOL
> 
> His "passion" had him this || close to a harassment case!


Here you go AGAIN.* Bring that 'harrassment case" on. I would love to get you roaches in a courtroom. I have never received a dime nor even any thanks from those that will instead neg me; my vids; and steal my ideas. My ideas ARE my ideas and my Ethics are MILES above yours. YOU would curse somebody for cutting you off in traffic...and yet you cannot stand it when you attempt to cut me off re what is mine and well thought out. You cannot stand to be the guy THAT YOU ARE...so you keep on posing as 'he who knows' ... you are 'he who does NOT know'. Get some humility instead of thinking my pride is out of hand. I earned what I fight for. You only mislead people with BS and then try to shift that personal problem to me and my equipment. AND NO AMOUNT OF ME TELLING YOU THAT will change that. Because you are apparently hardwired for that type of ignorance. I n times that did NOT pay me...yet I still hung with what I knew was true and now a few 'invest nothing and want/take everything' guys like you want me to pretend I need to put up with you? Anybody who has been around longer than you and has fought for more than you have...will know what I am talking about. *
*I say again...YOU(or jaimie or???) take me to a courtroom. I will OWN you there, like I own my skills for my own sake and the sake of my real customers. You talk pretty big for a guy who has earned nothing. When YOU work 14 hour days(or even a few 48 hours days)...sleep in a car so you can be to work on time...spend years searching thorugh riff raff so you can find the few who appreciate real skills and ideas...THEN you can get back to me. At this point, you still need somebody to help you across the SP 'street' like the first graders at the school near me. Don't pretend to be more.*

*I was even homeless (due to an injury in an SP shot that just about cost me everything due to lost ability and wages)for a few mos, years ago. And I painted houses with other people in tha situation and every one of them was more alert and real world savvy and respectful than you are. You have a long way to go. Maybe you should give up your apartment and go paint some houses with people who have learned a thing or two. It is harder than posing on forums. I built my FIRST press in the doorway of a 5' by 15' storage unit where I kept my belongings. Now...I have a house with a full SP set up for buildiong and printing(and way more than tees). Grow up...instead of imagining ways to slam those of us who earned our way.*

*I'd be ECSTATIC to be in a position where I did not have to have a 'kitchen' that roaches can sneak into. But in order for me to reach those that matter...I have to deal also with those that do not. I had over 900 people in my house; giving SP demos WAY before ebay or youtube. So do not imagine I came there for 'you'. *

NO...Jaimie did NOT do 'his' homework...he copied from ME. EXCEPT that his platen IS weaker(so much for your 'physics's savvy!); he ripped off and dumbed down my Micro tuners. Jaimies platen is six 3/4 screw mounts and WILL break if you stand on the front(as if that was what a tee shirt platen was designed for???). Mine will not as that 'L' allows a flex that prevents it. You CAN print _without the stabilizer_...the stabilizer is to assist the off contact(something jaimies rip off does not even offer) in remaining exactly even from front to back. It is NOT because the platen(12 all the way through screws supporting it!) would break without it. *Once again...you pretend all over the place when you neither have the equipment nor know what you are taking about*. Yet lack of information is NEVER a reason for YOU to be quiet. Some people do not like what I say or how I say it...but at least I am talking the truth. You are only good at twisting it. You are like those people who go on 'X factor' and cannot stand to be told they cannot sing! 

BTW I won't be claiming I 'stole HCB' (not his idea he is a businessman whose original product is venetioan blind cleaners! two point registration...BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK dependably or to a process accuracy level as mine DOES. Unless the tolerance of the the clamp and the screen acceptor is PERFECT(and it cannot be) it will allow play at the outer regions of the screen at least. You also slam me for not using the 'Knight silver press'...No...I have used a bunch of OTHER presses (from when you were in pampers)that it is exactly based on. If German13 and Bro(whatever)want to down me for somethings they don't like about me and YET dedicate so much time to YOU...well...that is how it will be. I cannot stop what I do and the coherence I am here for, for that. 

do something different today: THINK. It requires much more than pretending to know. PLEASE by all means...go get the HCB clamps. I'd rather know you had those and would just shut up and print than all the time you waste pretending to be a screen printer here. Calling it as it is.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

As I have said on just about every post I posted on this topic. I don't disagree with all of what you say.

I own up to the fact that I'm new to this industry and my skills are lacking to say the least. That takes time, time I'm willing to put in. But that is neither here nor there.

Am I a "whore for knight mfg?" Well... no more than anyone that comes on here saying they are pleased with your product is a whore for youtees. Do you suggest those guys are whores for you? I assume you don't... and therefore I also would assume you agree that in that vain I'm not a whore for Jamie. He makes a solid product that I own and can comment on. I'll bring his press to work tomorrow then I'll put my fat *** on a scale and then on the press... all one take, all live never done before. I have that much confidence in his press's strength. You shoot vids like crazy... put one up as well with you standing on the END of your platen please. This will shut us both up once and for all. I'm putting up my vid regardless of outcome and I hope you would do the same. But I'm honestly betting that you won't put up a vid because I don't think yours will hold up. I weigh about 190lbs, I know you are a skinny guy so you might have an advantage there but I won't hold it against you. 

I will commend you on a rather tame response though. If they were all this way we would have never ended up in the situation we find ourselves in.

BTW, the half the time/80% are just figures of speech. The point being made is that you spend a majority of your time talking about other stuff that is not related to the topic of the video.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Gilligan said:


> As I have said on just about every post I posted on this topic. I don't disagree with all of what you say.
> 
> I own up to the fact that I'm new to this industry and my skills are lacking to say the least. That takes time, time I'm willing to put in. But that is neither here nor there.
> 
> ...


I'm 6' 1" and 205 pounds. NOT worried about YOU being able to 'hold anything' against me. In SP or otherwise. I think I have made that clear. I am guessing you are the last in line to figure most things out. I work like crazy and run several miles 3 to 4 times a week as well. You say you are "fat" I am not. I appear skinny because my muscle weighs more than your fat. So you can _*eat that too. *_

The ONLY "situation we find ourselves in" was laid out EXACTLY FOR WHAT IT IS by me in my earlier post. Once again...you have to toss yourself a life raft full of holes. But YOU think it is a yacht. you have the 'crew' that will listen to your endless ignorance. But BELOW is what goes out to my customers in EVERY quote I give. I can only hope they won't fall for the drivel of 'Gilligan'. GREAT impression of the REAL gilligan by the way! Around and in things JUST enough to make it harder on others. You need to shut up about equipment you DO NOT OWN nor even have a clue toward proper use of. THAT is all there is to it. I said what I meant and meant what I said and NONE of it was the 'figures of speech' you know try to hide behind. 

Go ahead and do your 'stand on a platen' video...which is stupid as that is not what any platen was designed for. While your at it...take a hammer to your YUGO(now there is a video I will like!)and then make that a complaint video about 'how bad the car is'! I did (long ago) JUMP UP AND DOWN on the front edge of my platen and it did not break! Once again...Gilligan...at the BACK of the parade. You have a Phd in being ignorant and beside the facts that matter. You stand...jump...all over that KM platen(which also cannot be used in an ove as MINE can be)...I already know what six 3/4 inch screws can and cannot take. Better yet...become a real screen printer and THEN get back to us.

Don't expect me to waste time(like others do) answering YOU all the time. You are a self impressed waste of time who only poses a thin veneer of false appreciation or humility when you can then follow it by an insult or pointless supposition. Why do you assume you need to be any part of any thread that deals with me? You chose the dumbed down and poorly designed rip off that Knight mfg. puts out. Oh but..wait...appears you moved on from that. Got tired of those KM(and needless IF he knew what he was doing) MT lock nuts???!  You won't go away...so I just pop in here and there to poke holes in your assumptions and 'figures of speech'. If you do not have the facts(and you do NOT) GO AWAY until you do. Or do you need to hear that from the endlessly frustrated (by you) 'Skipper'??? 

I have a good idea that my corner of the world is not the only place you stick your ignorant nose. You'd rather conquer a keyboard than pay any real dues in a trade. 

I owe my customers and intelligent approachers honesty and skills. you are NEITHER. I owe YOU nothing. You are the guy that knows just enough to get people wasting time or in trouble and if they are lucky, they will figure it out before German13 or ??? has. 

You are indeed a 'gilligan'. I guess you knew that when you chose that handle. A big clue apparently many miss. Unfortunately, you are not the first or last pretender I have had to work around and warn people about. I'm not full of pride nor half of what the ignorant assume me to 'be'. I DO fight for what is right and correct about my ideas and what I know and do. You have only ignorance backed by 'figure of speech accusations' which you ONLY admit know because I owned you on it. I cannot be owning you all the time. It is easy...but I have better people to serve and higher to aim for. my occasional comments are as I said. so others will know what you are about. I am not nor ever was or could be responsible for the BS you post. I stand by anything and everything I have said...in or out of court. Or were you just wasting our time with that "harrassment" comment as well. Bring it. I bring it...in my ethics and in hard work YOU cannot touch, in reality. But Rodney likes you...you are 'forum filler'. Anybody who needs more than that will pass you by. 

As to my customers(and soon to be posted on my site as well).

*Hi ------,*

*It is in the name: 'micro' : to a fine degree 'Registration'; reaching and holding a position.*

*I came up with this(well provable) in 1990. Beware: there are some guys that I know of that are stealing my idea but their equipment(and micro tuners are not made right. And other guys(like Gilligan on Tshirt forums)that fall for it.*

*Their platens(and understanding of SP) are weak( I have never had one break or returned for) and poorly mounted; Their version MT's have lock nuts which will be a HUGE pain and time waster on your end. Mine(the originals)are made RIGHT and you can dial them quickly whenever with NO need for a lock nut. I invented Micro Tuners with NOTHING to go by and these guys could not even get it right after a video demo! That is just ONE of the ways they give themselves away. They mask it as well as they can...but just a few facts down them. *

*I only WISH I did not have to fight these types for the benefit of my ideas and YOU. But I do.*

*That is what happens when NON screen printers try to copy from people who DO know what is going on. These guys cost me some business...but what bothers me more is that people are not getting the best in equipment or info by dealing with these thankless/idealess guys. Stealers are seldom much more than that. Your call.*

*Multi color imagery(or white over white) will have different colors/images that need to align/register to eachother correctly/specifically. That is what miro tuning brings to the screens...the ability to do that. Most systems are in the wrong place; and/or the parts too sloppy to reach and hold that, or at a dependable level. On screen microtuners ar super accurate due to the fact that they have no slop and they are on the screen surrounbding the image. the best place to reach and hold registration. By twisting them this way or that, you an adjust them a lot or at a micro level.*

*Thanks for your interest! Please watch the vids as , of course, this is shown and explained there. and there is much else there that will help you and is just as important to know going in.*


*See: **www.youtees.net** (for current equipment and pricing...I have some discounts going that are not posted yet...I normally drop prices a bit to help people around Shristmas season) and 'youtees' on YouTube. If you see my site 'Options and pricing page' I will be happy to quote whatever your interest may be.*

*Enjoy...*'


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Gilligan said:


> I will commend you on a rather tame response though. If they were all this way we would have never ended up in the situation we find ourselves in.


Never mind... it seems the meds have worn off.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

youtees said:


> *Their platens(and understanding of SP) are weak( I have never had one break or returned for) and poorly mounted; *


So you might want to revise that statement as it's not quite true. Unless you just ignore all the real problems that people have... which you kind of seem to do.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p813038-post62.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p813045-post63.html

Not good.

But I'm sure you will say those people just don't exist or they are "haters"... maybe that's Jamie himself! It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you claimed that!


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

youtees said:


> words


You're not the only inventive person in screenprinting. I started in the 80's doing multi-color printing having never seen a rotary press or your home-spun set-up. We built a hat press with a hatchet and 2x4s and it worked like a charm. But I suspect if you saw our setup you would claim we ripped you off. Multi-color screenprinting has been around longer than you've been alive. Maybe a little humility on your part would go a long way.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Before I even knew that anyone has ever used some kind of registration system under the frame, in whatever manner, I have used a single(and sometimes dual) underframe registration system on the upper portion of the frame. There has been a number of times that I saw what I thought to be an original idea being used by someone else - earlier than I did.


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

be careful angel. We wouldn't't want lee to sue you for stealing his ideas.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Hello all,

Today I recived my YouTees Screen Printing Gear.
All got here in good order very well packed. It is just as listed on there website.

No missing parts, No broken bits.

Now it is time to give it my first test drive.

Will let you all know how my very first screen printing goes.

Thanks for your time,


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## blkblt (Sep 6, 2009)

WhiteTiger said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Today I recived my YouTees Screen Printing Gear.
> All got here in good order very well packed. It is just as listed on there website.
> ...


Enjoy your press white tiger. Happy printing.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks I am try my hand a burning a screen just now.

we will see or not in a few. lol?


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

I was anxious about burning my first screen... but it came out awesome.

I used a step wedge test to figure out my timing (after getting some pointers for my mesh/coats/emulsion from the guys at theshirtboard) and burned two screens that were flawless. Very comforting feeling after getting that step of the process done.

I'm still not really comfortable with my coating abilities (being consistent) but I'm still working on it!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Terry, welcome and hope things goes well. And if not, just do it again and pretty soon you'll be OK.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Ok all,

There is ink on a shirt.

But a Screen Printer I am not. LOL.

Ok the whole truth of it is like this,

My mesh is 110, properly coated with emulsion on both sides. Bought it that way. Ya 

I just opened photoshop and printed the first black and white art I opened. Yep to much detail.

Then I eather did not get it printed dark enough or exposed it to long (probably both). But not tobad I think for my first time out. It washed out well for the 80% that was not fine detail.

Ok so not so good a start I learned several thing doing it wrong 
1 check your setting on the printer.
2 watch the clock.

Now to add the ink, Set up the micro tuners they worked well. Well when you remember to snug them up just a bit after you get the T-Shirt on the platen .

Ok so now I have a double print LOL. But it looks good.

Now I hit it with some heat to add the cure move the shirt over do it again remembering to tighten the tuners to just snug. Print it. I then removed the screen to see what I had, Looking good. I put the screen back in place picked up my squeegee and print. Say a paryer then lifting the screen BANG on baby. Now thats how it is to work. Hit with some heat, move it over, one more time.

This time I tryed an easyer hand, to lite, second print same spot. Bang on!

Now to start all over.
Save the ink
wash the screen
wash out the emulsion, dry.
coat with emulsion, dry.
Find a less detailed graphic and print it setting for much darker ink this time, print it.
maby will use a diffrent color this time, you know spice it up a bit.

Well all in all I am happy with the way every thing turned out. Looking forward to the next printing.

Thank you all for your time and thoughts,

T


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

try simple spot images first.

What is your exposure unit, distance from image, and exposure time?


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Start with this man.

How to Determine correct screen exposure times using Vellum

You don't have to print it... just find out what is the best exposure time with it then reclaim.


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## bweavernh (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm coming in on the tail end of this so I'm not sure when the arguing started. But I must say this, Lee I have watched some of your videos and learned a lot. However, threatening to kick the a__ of people who disagree with you is not good for you or your business. Keep the fire, but don't let it burn you.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

BroJames said:


> try simple spot images first.
> 
> What is your exposure unit, distance from image, and exposure time?


 
500 w halogen light at 12" for 5 min.

I think on my first timing I ran over time by a min.

Will be doing a new screen in the am.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

It would depend on the emulsion brand, thickness, among others but I think 3 minutes would be a good starting point


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Kevin, that exposure test is nice and I use it often. More often than the stouffer. But one must also understand that it is almost guarantee to give you an under exposure. Under but usable exposure. 

Brandon, I have recommended/suggested that people try his microtuner system quite a few times when I think it serves its purpose. I do wish Lee could find time to contribute more to the forum even just a bit more without being defensive and toning down comments regarding other people.


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## bweavernh (Jun 26, 2008)

BroJames I agree. He actually has useful information, but sadly it is often lost in all the bitterness.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Hello All,

I have had my gear for about a week now and loving it.

I am looking to make a big jump in to 4 color (CMYK) printing learning.

Any Help and advice would be nice.

Thank you all,


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

What gear do you have?

What do you mean by "big jump"? If you mean equipment and if you are talkign about commercial printing I suggest no less than a 6 color 4 station press.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

I have Lees Gear, 

No the big jump is from 1 color to CMYK color.

I need to know what mesh count to use or how do you know what ones to use for diffrent colors or coverage.

Looking to do a logo on left breast of some shirts so the area being printed is kind of small with high detailing.

Been looking into T-Seps to do the work but the price is kind of high just know.

I am using PhotoShop CS3 for my art work,
I need to know the propper steps to set the art work to half tones so that I can print my colors for burning.

Will provid any information needed for help.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

You can do it manually. Convert the final image to CMYK. Copy each color channel to a new file. Convert to greyscale then convert to bitmap. You will be asked for the halftone dots (ellipsis), screen angle, frequency (lpi), etc. You have your halftones.

There are tutorials posted here.


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## WhiteTiger (Nov 5, 2011)

Ok so how do you get a screen for white ink?

Is it a composit of all colors to make a white undercoat screen for printing on darks?

Should a white under coat be used regardless of shirt color?

Would an undercoat screen use a diffrent mesh count?

My thoughts just now are to use 305 mesh for all colors and International Coatings MP Series Process Inks.

What white is the best to use?

How dose one know when to change mesh count?

Thanks for any help.


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

terry, you will probably get more responses by giving your questions their own thread in either screen printing or in graphics help.

you are missing a much larger audience being here in this thread for youtees


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Jay is right. Create a separate thread or search for related threads/posts for more insights. 

To give you an idea, an underbase can be a composite of all colors or only the light colored inks. Garment color can be a consideration if you'll be printing only on a specific color. Usually an underbase is used for dark colored shirts.

An underbase in general has a lower mesh count. On a manual press 160 would be a good underbase and 230 would be a good top coat. 305 are usually for automatic press although some people add reducers so the ink can penetrate the high mesh. Other people do not like adding too much reducers or any reducer at all.

If you need more info try T-Shirt Forums Search Results


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

bweavernh said:


> BroJames I agree. He actually has useful information, but sadly it is often lost in all the bitterness.


STOP it!!!!! I am ONLY 'bitter' about the self impressed thieves and wannabe's who have NO idea about how much care and dedication I have put into SP and helping THOUSANDS of people get into and advance along SP. Do you really think I could have survived on bitterness in a field I LOVE for over 30 years????! REALLY???? Those who KNOW me know how level headed; logical; good humored and helpful I am...If some of YOU here on TSF are missing out on that it is a road YOU paved or decided to buy into. Maybe you are not used to seeing people who HAVE worked long and hard for something, stand up for it, against those who have NOT?

And you wonder why I stay clear of TSF for the most part?! GET back to me when YOU(gilligan and the likes of) have over 30 years In ALL phases of screen printing...have managed and/or helped to start/rebuild many shops over a wide region of the country, and THEN gave all that up to help the new guys out who want to do real screen printing and not get ripped off...with truly original ideas as well. THAT is what I did...and still do when and where it is appreciated. Even those stealing my ideas cannot change the truth of that. if I post my VERY cool vaccum table design...you will probably see Jaimie/Knight Mfg. ripping THAT idea off to. I am knowledge BEFORE product and the thieves are product and then(maybe!)knowledge. THAT tells the truth...not them calling me 'bitter' for pointing it out. (Still waiting on that court summons Gilligan!)

I have not shared but a fraction of what I know. And some of you are doing all you can to make me not even want to share that. I did not start, continue nor depend on TSF. don't judge ME because TSF has become the corner of the room where the garbage can sits.

Currently I am helping people locally more than online, because few online really care to learn...they would rather misconstrue potent things I said to somebody(that needed to be said) and think they 'know' me. I give one to three classes out of my home per week...EVEN when it is inconvenient and EVEN WHEN I get a person who would rather pretend to 'know it all' than listen. So it does not surprise me too much how many people get carried away in thinking they have got me 'figured out'. The guys that you should NOT be listening to...are some of the biggest posters here. Fine...YOUR CALL. Just do not think you/they know me or that I am lead by bitterness. That is the easy and cheap answer that makes some feel better...but thousands of people(long before TSF and still) know better of me. I have QUIT well paying jobs with companies (a couple very big ones)because they were not honest with customers. So...I'm 'gonna' change now for little pretenders like Gilligan?...or anybody else who needs to crown me in their heads with imagined bitterness? Even the bathroom of 'a Great and Benevolent King' does not smell too good depending on what gets 'dumped' and so when/if I 'take a dump'...don't blame me for the smell because YOU chose to walk in right after I had to 'answer that call'. That is not MY bad decision...it is yours.

I have said before that I stay available in Screen printing because I love it and enough do appreciate that I can generally dodge the rest. I have as well a growing business regarding a winter window treatment that costs a fraction of thermal pane windows and brings 80% same results. But I cannot tell you about it...because the same guys that ripped off my micro tuner idea(Knight Mfg. Couple other guys on youtube) and then try to hide their lack of ethics behind my 'bitterness' about that, will just(as thieves and generally ignorant re SP) steal THAT too and assume I am 'just bitter' again. 

So...have fun. I DO! I do LOT of things in AND OUT of SP. I do not get into something unless i know what I am doing and do not talk about it until I know what I am doing. For my sake and others. Thieves and keyboard tapping forum trolls don't see it or earn 'it' that honestly. Doing/true knowing and honest sharing are WHY i enjoy whatever I do.

You did not really think I was going to give up enjoying my life and my GOOD/REAL customers...because of an internet forum did you? Well. see...THAT is the kind of thinking that gets YOU into trouble. I'm doing fine. But some think the cost of standing up is mine and feel they nbeed to warn me. Any cost that comes from working honorably I have paid and an willing to pay and so 'thanks' just the same. I don't yank chains or play games for cash or points.

EVEN WHEN taking time out to stand up for myself and what I do. Take it or leave it , but do not assume you are the 'next guy' to have figured me out. You do not own or use my equipment and you have not spent ONE moment with me. TSF (nor Gilligan; you)has not taught me a thing I needed to know. Some should not be so bold when they are way better at reading and posting, than knowing and doing. 
I could go back to being local and leave the whole world to TSF....YUDU...pretenders...idea thieves. The Northwest is LOADED with artists and honest people I can connect with with NO 'gilligans' pretending they know SP or me. THEN what will you do??! 
I used to build complete set-ups...rotary presses as well as what I offer via my site as it was easier to teach and do all of that for locals/semi locals. (Oregon/ Washington/CA). In those days...if and when I encountered wierdness all I had to do was tell it to LEAVE. And move onto the next person. 

But now we have forums and it is so much easier for the 'go nowheres' to pretend they have/are/ or will know SP or me. You thought I would roll over for that? Wrong. I am expediting orders right now to make sure that my customers WILL get their equipment before Christmas. That means giving up my time and working just a bit harder. I do that every C'mas and actually a good bit of the REST of the time as well! Now THERE 'is' the mark of a 'bitter old man'. I laugh...because I know that I get more done in a day and think farther and straighter than those judging me(or ripping off my ideas 'for the profit in it' ONLY) ever will. THAT is just one of my rewards. Warriors ARE warriors because they CAN fight. I enjoy my life and trades VERY much and I can fight when I need to. Facts and skills hard earned and long proven makes it just part of the deal. America was not built by those who were afraid. What is mine I am not at all afraid to speak of or defend. If it makes you nervous...you have a ways to climb. I can see a LOT from where I stand.

Some will need to take a nap and/or a vitamin after reading all of this(Gilligan prefers Gummy Bears). Whereas I am just going out to MY garage in MY home to print and build for *MY REAL CUSTOMERS*.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

bweavernh said:


> I'm coming in on the tail end of this so I'm not sure when the arguing started. But I must say this, Lee I have watched some of your videos and learned a lot. However, threatening to kick the a__ of people who disagree with you is not good for you or your business. Keep the fire, but don't let it burn you.


I threatened to kick nobody's a** as you put it. A guy made a reference to my physicality and I set him straight...AGAIN. My business is just fine. The pollution is here on TSF and bought into by those who buy into the ignorance of those who do not know SP or me. In fact...I'm busy enough to where I don't deal with it, or have to, like I COULD. Big world out there. The 'gilligans' are flea dirt.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

I don't often get pix fwded to me, even though I care about customers progress, and invite their input. But I just got this today from one of those REAL CUSTOMERS I made mention of...as opposed to the guesser/poser 'gilligans' who do not know me or my equipment, but seem to be concerned more about me and my supposed 'bitter' personality, than Screen printing. 
Well fact is that when guys like Brian appreciate the FACTS well enough to respond to them, I appreciate it. So...here it is from Brian:

copy/pasted email:

 
Hey Lee.


Finally got around to having time to use the press and was delighted. Your instructions were spot on and the only issue I had were self induced. Once I got past those - it was like any other great tool - consistent results. Here is a shot of the front:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/anticlimaddox/6499101479/in/set-72157624936181790/


I experimented with the halftone and was pretty happy with this result. Here is the back:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/anticlimaddox/6499101165/in/set-72157624936181790/


The alignment on the back is pretty good validation your press does as advertised. One bit of advice you gave that I would reiterate highly was spending some time without ink practicing putting shirts on and off and aligning the screens. Really got it down after an hour and it helped a lot.


- - - - - - - - - - 


Anyway - VERY happy with the product. Quick question - was going to use mineral spirits to clean the glue and lint off the top of the platen. Any other suggestions? Leave it? And do you just use mineral spirits to clean the ink up off screens? Seemed to work well but afraid of damaging the emulsion.


Many thanks again.
// brian


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

youtees said:


> Maybe you are not used to seeing people who HAVE worked long and hard for something, stand up for it, against those who have NOT?


Yeah, no bitterness there. I remember back when you started on Youtube I made a comment that had both positive and constructive feedback... you deleted the comment, blocked me then disabled comments for the video. That kind of overreaction is why you are getting negative responses.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I am not a party to this and this is not really my concern but I hate to see discussions go overboard with posts and re-posts having the same "tone" over and over again.


youtees said:


> ...but seem to be concerned more about me and my supposed 'bitter' personality, *than Screen printing. *
> ...


Lee, you have always implicitly and explicitly that you are a real printer and all you care about is real screen printing. We are all human with emotions and shortcomings. We all make mistakes. We all sometimes say things that we should never have said or maybe should have reword them differently, and so forth. 

So, in the spirit of the yuletide season, can we just drop all these and get on topic? On screen printing topics?


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## Gau777 (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm a new member to the forums, but I just bought a press from Lee. I'm happy with the functionality of the equipment, but the materials it was made out of were not what I expected. 

I emailed him to let him know that I was disappointed with how the press looks and he replied with a degrading 1800 word essay telling me his press works perfect, if I don't like it I can sell it on craigslist, I'm a wacko who doesn't know a single thing about screen printing or real equipment, I only want something to put on a shelf and look at, and that he is going to make a whole page on his website to slander my name and let everyone know that I am "THAT GUY".

I didn't know if I could post my email and his reply. I don't want to cause an uproar, I just wanted to share my opinion and get help. I will be posting pictures of the press I received to compare to the press he pictures on his website, and in his 11/11/09 equipment update video.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I didn't know if I could post my email and his reply.


I don't think there's really a need for that


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Gau777 said:


> I'm a new member to the forums, but I just bought a press from Lee. I'm happy with the functionality of the equipment, but the materials it was made out of were not what I expected.
> 
> I emailed him to let him know that I was disappointed with how the press looks and he replied with a degrading 1800 word essay telling me his press works perfect, if I don't like it I can sell it on craigslist, I'm a wacko who doesn't know a single thing about screen printing or real equipment, I only want something to put on a shelf and look at, and that he is going to make a whole page on his website to slander my name and let everyone know that I am "THAT GUY".
> 
> I didn't know if I could post my email and his reply. I don't want to cause an uproar, I just wanted to share my opinion and get help. I will be posting pictures of the press I received to compare to the press he pictures on his website, and in his 11/11/09 equipment update video.


This thread is about the equipment and not the person. 

But IMHO, I think that a reply to any customer commenting on the products he/she purchased, right or wrong, makes these "private" communication "official" and *inseparable* from any company or individual selling (especially) "non-traditional" designs or products(_which require non-traditional and/or more specialized customer support which usually only the seller can give_). I just feel that replies to customer inquiry and feedback is part of the product and a customer has a right to share his/her experience especially if the reply is to his/her comment about a product he/she actually purchased. This is just a personal opinion though.

Your personal expectations on the product should fit this thread perfectly though.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Agreed Angel... if a person will put up positive "customer feedback" as testimonials then there needs to be a place for the flip side.

If a company doesn't want what they are saying put out there then they shouldn't respond in that way.


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## Gau777 (Oct 23, 2011)

If anyone's interested just check out Lee's new page on his website, youtees.net, titled "RUA Negative Nathan?". You can find my customer complaint quoted there.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

Gau777 said:


> If anyone's interested just check out Lee's new page on his website, youtees.net, titled "RUA Negative Nathan?". You can find my customer complaint quoted there.


Alright, now having read Lee's official response, I really want to see upclose pictures of one of his units (by PM if necessary). There are statements on the website and videos about the finish, function, and workmanship, the response seems to be centered on function.

As one of those non-pro screen printer builder types I gotta say that posting that kind of rant says that you aren't really interested in customer service unless the customer wants to service the ego of the builder first. It's such a shame because they guy does share some excellent information (provided that the editorial filters are working), which I have made extensive use of.


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## jones01 (Dec 26, 2011)

I sent them an email, and no response..


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Gau777 said:


> I'm a new member to the forums, but I just bought a press from Lee. I'm happy with the functionality of the equipment, but the materials it was made out of were not what I expected..."
> 
> *YES indeed...I now have a page on my website entitlted 'RUA negative Nathan?' FEEL FREE TO READ IT...as on my part it deals with facts that the 'Nathans' of the world need to know. *
> 
> ...


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

"The first press I ever made was a cosmetic joke and yet, because it used the micro tuners(which are SO great that other companies now rip the idea off!)it was more accurate than the $5,000.00 press at the shop I worked at then. That press of mine made me lot of money and it made me my fist sales because with it I PROVED how well it worked. 
Now...20 plus years and over 3,200 personally/carefully built presses later(and a LOT of sacrifice) I'm supposed to roll over for the whiners whose complaints are based on nothing????"

Lee, enough with how you invented the micro tuners 20 some odd years ago and everyone is ripping you off now. I was making (not using) those things out of mapel, carriage bolts and T-nuts for the crafts teacher at my high school in the mid-70s so the classes could print T's to support the Sr. Class trips and sports. He had three or four presses very similar to yours, built by the advanced woodshop guys, that were used for the month he did screen printing each semester. That would be Mr. Baily at Camarillo and Frontier High Schools. 

In addition, I've been making threaded aluminum versions (such as those found at Knight Mfg) for use on woodworking jigs. It is not a new idea and yes they work very well to create repeatable results. 

And no, neither of us have had 30 years experience as a professional printer.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

Angel, I just got tipped over the edge for a second there. The tirades and attitude are just...Odd.
...Me thinks he doth protest too much...


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

cyclesurgeon said:


> "The first press I ever made was a cosmetic joke and yet, because it used the micro tuners(which are SO great that other companies now rip the idea off!)it was more accurate than the $5,000.00 press at the shop I worked at then. That press of mine made me lot of money and it made me my fist sales because with it I PROVED how well it worked.
> Now...20 plus years and over 3,200 personally/carefully built presses later(and a LOT of sacrifice) I'm supposed to roll over for the whiners whose complaints are based on nothing????"
> 
> Lee, enough with how you invented the micro tuners 20 some odd years ago and everyone is ripping you off now. I was making (not using) those things out of mapel, carriage bolts and T-nuts for the crafts teacher at my high school in the mid-70s so the classes could print T's to support the Sr. Class trips and sports. He had three or four presses very similar to yours, built by the advanced woodshop guys, that were used for the month he did screen printing each semester. That would be Mr. Baily at Camarillo and Frontier High Schools.
> ...


Since you offer no respect, you get none back. I DO have the experience...I DID invent the on screen microtuners and they were never made of the poor crap and the poor methods you claim to have used. 'Yeah right'. you cannot even spell 'Maple'! If you are making them like Knight makes them then YOU TOO are not too smart...bolts through aluminum or tee nuts have play and must be backed by a lock nut...which is a silly waste of time for the printer needing to adjust QUICKLY and securely(have to loosen and retighten the lock nuts)so you did not learn much between now and the '70's) I got it right the FIRST TIME.
Next you will be telling me you invented rockets because you had a toy rocket...in the 70's? 
there was nothing in your comment that knocks me off my claim. I do not worship my idea or that is WAS mine...but as long as ingrates cannot stand that it was my idea...then I will set them straight. 
BS'rs always give themselves away. You STILL don't have a clue that you have been doing it wrong all these years! You supposedly came up with some haphazard thing and you mistakenly compare it with the RIGHT thing; designed by the guy who DID have the real experience to design it right; FOR the SP purpose...and designed it period. "Enough of; _YOU_.
I don't claim anything that is not mine. YOU are Johnny come lately, and to an often useless forum no less. You don't have a clue so you need to step on those who earned the skills and DO know.

Sorry for you that you are now no better and can reach no higher or further than the 'Gilligan Groupies'. I've gotten and given so much more from/to screen printing than that. Try to remember, that the best screen printers do not spend much time here...with this. Me among them. BTW: if you look at Knight(no honor for THIS 'knight') mfg it is OBVIOUS that he ripped it off from me. Nor does your buddy have ANY vids on SP (thieves steal...they don't create!). He refers those who 'want less' and buy from him...to MY videos! So yeah...you can put a sock in it.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

youtees said:


> ... If you are making them like Knight makes them then YOU TOO are not too smart...bolts through aluminum or tee nuts have play and must be backed by a lock nut...which is a silly waste of time for the printer needing to adjust QUICKLY and securely(have to loosen and retighten the lock nuts)so you did not learn much between now and the '70's) I got it right the FIRST TIME....


For metal tuners, throw in an o-ring as washer for a no-play tuner with easy tool-less adjustment without any loosening or re-tightening.

If you look very very carefully, under the butterfly nuts is an almost flat and almost invisible black thing. That's a polyurethane o-ring. I also use automotive o-rings. Tools-free adjustment and no play. The same concept can be applied to metal tuners of whatever kind and purpose that requires precision and frequent adjustment. Technically, it is much more precise than nylon down to the micron level. Whenever I can. I place the o-ring on the side away from the direction of the force to ensure metal to metal contact when force is exerted (note the small black insert on the horizontal bolt where the direction of the force is from the left). Rubber washers and other hard synthetic materials can be used instead.









BTW, I claim ownership of the invention but hereby release it into the public domain under the terms and conditions provided for under the Public Domain License attached below. Therefor it is freely available for use by members of the public including Lee, Jamie (knight), and all. 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Let Peace Reign.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

Invent rockets...no, had designs on the Space Shuttle...yes.
Designed the old style tuners...no, built a bunch of them as a teen...yes.

Oh OK I hereby recognize Lee as the sole inventor of the drawer-slide micro-tuner and admit that nothing I produce can match the precision of his presses. I also recognize that any future designs or builds I do will be in some way a direct rip-off of his ideas, previously presented or imaginary.

There, it's out in the open for all to see. I'm such a fraud, I'll never print again.

As a last word, if you don't have the necessary skills or assets available to build your own table-top press, there is nothing wrong with the concept or design of the YouTees unit. I can't comment on the workmanship as I have never seen one of the units in person, nor have I seen any closeup pictures. As to the kind of customer service you might expect, it depends on the mood or the tone of your communications as demonstrated by the previous responses shown in this thread and on the "company" website.

If you have any kind of woodworking skill and a little time to put into it, you can produce a press that is just as functional in the $50 range and any issues with workmanship can be brought directly to the craftsman's attention (hopefully without him/her going off).


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

The first press I ever made was a cosmetic joke and yet, because it used the micro tuners(which are SO great that other companies now rip the idea off!)it was more accurate than the $5,000.00 press at the shop I worked at then. That press of mine made me lot of money and it made me my fist sales because with it I PROVED how well it worked. 
Now...20 plus years and over 3,200 personally/carefully built presses later(and a LOT of sacrifice) I'm supposed to roll over for the whiners whose complaints are based on nothing????

I know I said "one last word" in my last one, but let me answer Lee's last question before I ignore this thread any further:

Yes Lee. If you are going to deal with the public via the internet, where you cannot physically show them the differences (however minor they may be), then you do have to spend time holding their hands and provide service with a smile, even when you want to go on a rant about how they should never touch a squeegee. Posting a page about your negative experience with a specific customer is unprofessional and childish. Posting the customer's name is unforgivable from a business aspect.

You say that you've been doing business for over 20 years, but if this is the attitude you've had the whole time, you've been very lucky, no matter how good your product is.


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## Gau777 (Oct 23, 2011)

Here are some pictures of my press. The first one is an overall picture, and the other four are close ups. Notice the wood.

Quoting Lee from "RUA Negative Nathan",

"YES...the rack IS clear coated(not stained)the redwood gets dark when clear coated)and is the safest wood for constant screen insertion."

The wood is actually yellow pine. The only wood I'm aware of that becomes dark brown when clear coated is teak.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Gau777 said:


> Here are some pictures of my press. The first one is an overall picture, and the other four are close ups.


Guess a picture SCREAMS a thousand words. 

I'm certainly a "if it works" kinda guy, which is the bottom line. But it _looks_ kinda like something I would make for myself (like my hat attachment...unfinished look but very functional). That's not a slam and I can see where it may not have been what you _expected_ considering all the hype and hoopla.

A friend's Dad did some cabinet work for my Sister-in-law. Everyone RAVED about what great work he did. When I saw the job it was nice but didn't have the _attention-to-detail _finished touches of _great _work I expected.

So, does the stuff work??


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures Nathan. I can see your points as far as craftsmanship and I do believe you are correct about the quality of the materials he chose. The dark brown wood looks like what is being sold as pressure treated lumber at Home Depot, but it is hard to tell from the pics.

Red lines vs. Black lines....meh, as long as you can use them it shouldn't be a big deal.

The only structural thing I see is the melamine vs. real wood on the off-contact frame. I wouldn't expect it to be too fragile, but I would keep an eye on them when packing up to store.

After all the self-promotion and crowing about how professional he is, this would be a disappointment to me too.

On the down side, I'm sure there was some discussion about all sales being final in your email train, so I wouldn't be asking for a refund based on materials or craftsmanship.

On the bright side, the pieces look like one of his standard presses, so it should work great if you have patience and perform the steps. 

But remember, you'll never be as good a printer or as smart as.........oh never mind.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

TYGERON said:


> Guess a picture SCREAMS a thousand words.
> 
> I'm certainly a "if it works" kinda guy, which is the bottom line. But it _looks_ kinda like something I would make for myself (like my hat attachment...unfinished look but very functional). That's not a slam and I can see where it may not have been what you _expected_ considering all the hype and hoopla.
> 
> ...



On the same wave again I see Dr.

You've seen the stuff I build for myself, but I'm not ever going to send something unfinished out to a payin' customer.


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## Gau777 (Oct 23, 2011)

Lee's press has accurate registration. 

I know aesthetics are not everything, but if I order a white shirt I expect to get a white shirt, not a grey one.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Quote/Gilligan: "So you want to be patted on the back for making sure you didn't send out total crap?!

I'm pretty sure that is the goal of everyone on this forum, if that deserves a pat on the back then I guess I'll be the first to do it... Great job everyone that owns a business and tries not to produce crap for their customers, great job!"

you do not care HOW stupid you sound long as you can keep on posting. Even showing big auto presses that have(like your comments)NOTHING to do with this thread. Even Rodney warned YOU about that!

New Years Day and I am happily building for a customer who is awake and matters(not many of those HERE!). We know that is not and never will be YOU.

So many people invest in all that huge stuff and fall flat on their butts because they cannot run it very well or keep the employees who can for slave wages. Hey big press guy 'been there and done that'...NOT impressed....I'm making more than YOU do off my two small businesses. I have too much pride and love SP too much to chain myself to that auto press crap anymore. You don't get what i do and you never will. 

Re Gau777 and his whiny complaints: Somebody said that I should 'not be afraid of closeups of my gear'...which I am not. Which is why I have nearly 60 videos between two Youtube channels Gilligan (and non-genius followers). You have nothing that matters to anyone

And because I KNEW(due to nathans near gilligan level of incoherence)that he might come back to haunt me, no matter HOW clear/patient and fair I was with him; HOW well I made his gear...I HAD ALREADY TAKEN THOSE PIX . So much for your 'being on top of ANYTHING (AGAIN).
That could answer a LOT.

here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/leesmachines/sets/72157628669199843/

You can have your mom help you if needed.

And just in case you cannot figure it out that it is NATHAN'S equipment...blow up the pix real big and you will see the name in a few places. NO lack of craftsmanship or workmanship...just a guy(like you)who has some crooked agenda that has little to nothing to do with what I(as a real pro)have to offer even the simplest person who wants top accuracy are real skills info. You have done everything to try and sidetrack people from that and you never can. not with anybody I care about anyway.



AND...yes...there is an address on the box of all to see. It is the address of the 'Creative Collective'(which I started to assist the many real artists/creatives I know...unlike you) where up to 15 different artists/styles come together to do what we do. So feel free to write. Those of us who ARE real about what we do have been doing it very well and for a long time before the half assed and context twisting 'Gilligans' ever arrived. MAN!!!...If I was Rodney I'd be very embarassed to make room for guys like you. Nobody here at TCC...and few of my cutomers even come to TSF. We don't need to. Like I have said before: I only come here to keep you and your buddies from spreading your crap and disinfo TOO far and wide. 

3,240 sum-odd gear kits built and sold so far...
When you have anything that matters...you won't any longer need to make up crap and pretrend you know anything about screen printing or me. Even if you manage to print some tees or(???)found somebody to hire you...that does not say much. Most of SP is a glorified version of migrant farm work and i have NO problem seeing you in some shop where the boss is willing to put up with your mistakes as long as they do not have to pay you too much.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Guys (everyone posting), please keep things professional here. There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing or posting different viewpoints, but the name-calling, off topic posts, making fun of others posts/typos, do not help the discussion or help people get issues solved. 

*We're here to help, not to provide kindling for flame wars. *

I know it's easy to get drawn in to a back and forth heated thread, but please, let's move on. If you don't have anything helpful to add to the discussion, just skip it and move on to one of the many other posts in the forum that could use some help 

I'd love for this thread to stay open so people that actually have direct experience with the machines being discussed in the title can share their experiences without all the unnecessary drama. Lots of different personalities in the world, let's try to keep things on track so it can stay relevant.

Any questions, please contact me directly instead of adding more off topic posts to the thread.​


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Gau777 said:


> Here are some pictures of my press. The first one is an overall picture, and the other four are close ups. Notice the wood.
> 
> Quoting Lee from "RUA Negative Nathan",
> 
> ...


I have directed people to the pix I took BEFORE you even received the equipment. You need to get a job in a cabinet factory instead of maquerading as a screen printer. You obviously do not know what to do with quality accurate SP equipment when it lands in your lap. I told you if you chose to advertise your ridiculousness i would fairly and strongly respond. I'm just getting warmed up if you choose to take aim against what I know and do VERY well. You are one of those anal past anal types that nobody can stand. okay...so somebody who has no problem posting all they choose but could not stand what I had to say effectively against it(this IS a thread about MY equipment so I DO have the right and ability to stand up for it)complains about my post...alerting Rodney...who is actually being quite civil under the circumstances. BUT the nature of those who neither have or use(or in Nathans case just want to ***** about colors!)my equipment CONTINUALLY drives Youtees threads into ridiculousness. i would not care if Rodney deleted EVERY mention of youtees and EVERY thread regarding. I DO NOT NEED THE REFERENCES AND NEVER DID. As long as he was/is fair about that. But that has not and likely will not happen. Actually I'd be overjoyed to be off this forum in every way shape and form. I am embarassed for my good and hard earned name to be here.

As long as it is...then we will have problems. or am I the only person who can figure that out!?!

Link: RE: Negative Nathan and YouTees Screen Printing Equipment - a set on Flickr

Be sure you read ALL I have written there! You are a nut case. You are like a chinese manual that pretends to make sense re an american product. 

The blocks to hold the screen are absolutely NOT 'yellow pine" NOR is the strut you whine about...it is FIR. And it is VERY strong and finsished just fine. I have dealt with you all I need to on the flickr site/page/link.


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## youtees (May 19, 2008)

Gau777 said:


> Here are some pictures of my press. The first one is an overall picture, and the other four are close ups. Notice the wood.


WOW!!!!!! THAT is what you've got????????? You even show that the two corex pieces are 1/16" misaligned(because that is how I get them...do you want the 'corex factory' number so you can whine to them???
You even show the INSIDE of the strut that once attached is NOT EVEN VISIBLE! 

You show a tiny piece of up turned foil(there for heat protection)that you could have just pressed back down in the same or less time than the pic took. but NOOOOO...not 'neg nathan'!

You who pretend to be a wood genius do not even recognize redwood or fir when you see it. You gotta INVENT something to whine about. And who cares if it WAS yellow pine(it is NOT I have the receipt to prove it!) but neg nathan???! What a GOOF!!! Redwood DOES get darker when clear coated. ALL wood gets darker(or lighter woods may yellow)when clear coated! You see nathan I actually HAVE worked in a cabinet shop! Ha! 

Hey you forgot to mention again the red lined grid on the perfectly built platen...why????

My pix are way better and prove I care about what I do. YOURS are ridiculous! Again...not ONE positive statement or compliment on my work for you. You go ahead and sue me and PLEASE HOLD YOUR BREATH as you wait for that refund you demand. 

WHERE are the cops you were giving me "one last chance to avoid" when you threatened me on Christmas day. Yeah...that is what I already KNEW!

I will watch to see who further embarasses themselves by standing by YOU and your nutty photos. THIS is the kind of crap that I have to deal with and YET you cannot stop me from doing the good work I do for.

You were suspicious to me from your first emails and I honored your payment with EXCELLENT gear. YOU need to decide if you will grow up and use it...or keep up the crap. If I was not ready to deal with either...I never would have made you anything. 

You caused ONE guy to be screwed in all of this....and that guy is YOU.


Happy New Year!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Happy New Year everyone. 

Let's hope this thread stays open as these press remains a healthy alternative to the more expensive carousel presses especially for hobbyist, people on a tight budget, a limited work space, people who have not yet decided on full scale screen printing, and for whatever reasons decided to try one.


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