# Bar Code Questions



## curtnrod19 (Dec 6, 2007)

We are looking for a place to buy bar codes..... where to get the license number, what we need to do, places to get the license/product number, websites? It will be for clothing items only at this point in time. Shirts, Caps, Sweat, and other garment items. Please let me know where i could get this info? if this is in the wrong forum area please feel free to relocate it to the right section. thank you soo much!

Curtis Beard


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

GS1 US BarCodes and eCom - The Global Language of Business

You can pay a yearly fee and get unlimited bar codes. Which is what I suggest if you are going to have multiple products with multiple colors. I pay a little under $800 for unlimited bar codes.

You can also google "bar codes" and find lots of companies that will sell single bar codes. But they will typically be around the $35-75 range for 1 bar code. Which is why I suggest you just join the council and get unlimited ones.


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

There is a misconception that you must have UPC barcodes on products. This is not always the case. UPC was devised by the grocery industry and is definitely the barcode there. 

But not all retailers demand UPC on the products they buy. In fact some will even put their own barcode labels OVER the UPC code.

The scanners themselves will read a variety of codes, with the code "3 or 9" (sometimes called Code39) being the most popular after the UPC. The UPC code is always 12 numbers (the EAN European version is 13) 1, then 5, then 5 then 1. 

3 of 9 can code virtually the entire keyboard, alpha, numbers and most symbols. At one time I had business cards with my name in 3 of 9 with the letters shown beneath the code.

You can often get retailers to accept 3 of 9 in place of UPC, and save a lot of money. Many $ 19.95 office supply store "my label printer" cd's will do 3 of 9. You can also download the fonts on the net, but I've never actually got them to work.

But, for $ 20 you can print all the labels you want, and not have to pay that $ 800 or even the $ 25 or so for a single number. 

I sold barcode stuff for about 10 years, so I've got a pretty good knowledge of what you can and can't do. The average common old hand-held scanner you see everywhere will actually recognize about 20 different codes and they can all be programmed to do more or fewer. 

Compatibility is not a big deal. You can do a 3 of 9 label and the grocery and retail flat panel and hand-held units, but wired and wireless will read them. 

So, if you want to barcode some items because you have a customer or prospect who demands it, or just for your own warehousing / shipping needs, think about 3 of 9 and save a bunch. (You can send me $ 400 and you're still $ 400 ahead.  )

Here's more on barcodes and the software for under $20 - 
Forum Members Services
.


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

I don't think anybody said anything specifically about UPC, just barcodes.

Also, the discussion isn't printing ANY type of code, but how to get assigned a code. That's whay the council is for.

Yes, you can get all kinds of products to MAKE the codes (UPC, Code 39, Code 93, etc.) but you must be assigned a number from somewhere. Otherwise, when you label your products with your new codes and send them off to a retailer, you won't know if you've duplicated another number.

That's the problem, and that's where the council comes in. You can get ALL types of barcodes from the council (including Code 39, not just UPC) and you get assigned specific numbers. Numbers that are given only to you.

So, just becuase you can print Code 39, doesn't mean you have a number that's yours.

When you join the council, or buy single numbers from somewhere else, you aren't paying to get numbers printed. You're paying for the right to use specific numbers, exclusively.

And if you're going to be using barcodes, there's no way around that.

True some retailers don't require it, but many do.


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

The UPC codes are licensed, always have been. In general, the first group of digits represents the manufacturer and the last group the item number. The first single digit tells the general market / use with the 0 being the most common for grocery / general items and then the 3 being for drug type items. 

The end number is a "check sum" which is used to ensure the validity of the code.

These are assigned by an international council. At least the 5 digit manufacturer code is, the last 5 is for the use of the manufacturer for their numbering system. 

I was not talking about printing, I was talking about using the codes. If you are going to use a UPC code you must get it from the council, or a reseller like you are talking about.

BUT - there is no such registry for 3 of 9. You can make up your own numbers. As long as you have a number that is unique to the retailer's system nothing else matters. It could be the number 1. As long as there is no other item number 1 in their item numbers, when that code is scanned, your item will come up.

In fact, most Point-of-Sale systems have a field for an alternative number, sometimes more than one. The POS systems create their own internal number, as well. You could print a label with any of those numbers and most POS systems would bring up the correct item.

Where an item is in a system under the UPC code number, you could still print a 3 of 9 (or 2 of 5, or Code 128, or any other code) label with the 12 digits in a straight numberic string and the item would come up. UPC code numbers are in the computer systems as straight 12 digit numbers, not formatted as the code, so any 12 digit string will bring it up, as when a cashier punches it in by the keyboard.

So, as long as you the manufacturer or supplier and your customer have an understanding that your numbers are peculiar to your products they will work in the retailers system. With the full set of keyboard characters you can use a completely alpha code, with will not clash with anything else. 

I'm not trying to argue with you on this, just supply information that many small comapnies might find useful when they are told they need a barcode on their products in order to get a sale. You do not need a UPC code and you certainly don't need to pay to get any other code. They are out there in the public domain and all that matters is - 

A - they are unique numbers (or alpha/numbers) to your customers' systems.

B - their scanners can read the code. 

As I said, virtually every scanner in the world can read 3 of 9 out of the box. Those that won't can be programmed to, but if you are selling to a chain that could be a problem. 

Frankly, I've sold scanners, label printers, tag printers, hand-held data collectors and pen readers to the military, retailers, hospitals, manufacturing plants and school & industrial cafeterias and have never had a scanner that would not do 3 of 9 out of the box. I would go so far as to say they all will. After all, they will all read the Chinese Postal Code out of the box, as well as the USPS code. 

There is no mystery to all of this. I would go so far to say that even selling to a national chain you could get by with a unique 3 of 9 code. You may have to talk to someone beyond the buyer who only has a checkbox on their form asking if you have a UPC number.

Send me $ 400 and we'll both come out ahead!
.


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Well, if you are selling 1 product to 1 retailer, then this would be the way to go. No doubt!

But, when you are selling 30 designs( some of those in multiple colorways) in t-shirts, then hats, hoodies, jerseys, it can get very confusing trying to keep up with different numbers for various retailers.

See the problem?

Let's use a hypothetical:

Let's say I get together with Retailer A, and we figure out a good Code 39 number for all 50 of my products. Great! I print those on my hangtags, and we're in business. I file all of that away.

Now, I go to Retailer B, and we do likewise. Great! I print those out for Retailer B. 

Wait, I've got 35 retailers!!!! 

That's A LOT of work for very little benefit, in my opinion.

You've got to keep up with different Code 39's for multiple retailers. 

Like I said, that works great if you've got 1 product, and 1 retailer. Too much work after that when you can pay a fee, and get ALL of your codes registered, and you know that the code for Style#12345 will be the same at all of your retailers.


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

No, you don't quite get it. You have an entire keyboard from which to choose. You can make your own UPC, just about.

How may stores, anywhere in the world are going to have an item number that starts QBYLK?

So, you code everything QBYLK00001, QBYLK00002, etc. You can even use functional item codes if you want with QBYLK10001+up being men's tees, QBYLK20001+up being youth tees, etc. 

Actually, just the prefix Q would set you apart from everyone else. Might even work for Macys and Target.

Or 9J10001, etc. or use a dash, 3 of 9 will do dashes, most all keyboard symbols.

Most retailer are not going to care if it's UPC, ABC, XYZ or whatever, as long as you come up with a unique code for your products. The UPC is great when you have every grocery store, drug store and c-store in the world selling Crest toothpaste. You should hope that happens with your tees. 

Yes, if you just go 12345, 12346, etc. you may conflict somewhere. But just throw in one letter and you're different.

The POS software I recommend, POSitive, will do the matrix for style/size/color and automatically assign an item code to each product. Click, whiz, bang, you got it. It will even print the labels on address labels using 3 of 9. You can also design custom label sizes, if address labels are too big. With barcodes you do need some white area around the code, you can't go right to the edge of the label.

All for FREE! Except the labels, of course. Will also do hang tags with a Zebra or similar printer. I've sold all this stuff, trained people to use it all and I know it works.

Many here are strapped for cash and I'm simply trying to explain they do not have to break the bank to do barcode labels.

Selling to Target or Wal*Mart? OK, get a UPC and move on. Selling to Frankies Fashions? Print your own.
.


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Pete, thanks!

I "think" I get it now. 

You're right, that saves a some cash. 

As I've already got all of my designs assigned in-house style numbers, it would be very simple to incorporate my company name, either before the style number or after, to a code 39, and use those without paying the council.

So, to clarify and make sure I've got this straight:

I can assign my OWN Code 39 (3 of 9) number, have the FULL keyboard with which to make the number (making sure it's unique enough that no one else has it) and get those printed, instead of using numbers assigned by the council? 

It sounds to good to be true. Why don't more people know this? This is the first that I've ever heard of such.

Thanks again for the education.


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

Now I'm getting through!

A couple of considerations - 

Don't use a lot of letters, I was a bit extreme. They will not like keying in letters as much as numbers, but it should not be a problem, particularly just a prefix.

You might also just use shorter numbers. An 11 digit or 10 digit that would not get mistaken for a UPC. 

As I mentioned, a Q or a Z, or your company initials. You want to keep it simple for them when initially entering your items in the system and when working with PO's and such. 

I'd recommend a prefix, rather than a suffix and no dashes. Again just keying time.

I bought my first computer system for my parts stores back in the 70's. We were dealing with item numbers like FS-12345-AB1. They guy I bought the system from said to think about each keystroke as costing me a dime when the lady was entering the data the first time. I still remember that comment. 

I had to go with the maunfacturer's number, it wasn't mine. But when we made up our own they were simple.

BTW, the grin of the day - that computer was the size of a large soft drink vending machine. 
.


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Thanks for the tips.

But why is this not used more?

I've never heard of being able to assign yourself barcodes. If this was common knowledge those companies selling individual UPC's would go out of bissiness. Everybody would do this.


----------



## curtnrod19 (Dec 6, 2007)

uummm..... thanks for the replies. i think well just go with the council to make sure we do everything right. yes there will be alot of diff "bar codes" on items sold to alot of retailers. just trying to learn more about this . just easier to go through them to get your bar code and have them email it to you then just print it out and your done. its only a yearly fee. thanks again


----------



## comingup (Sep 21, 2007)

Hey, out of nowhere but do you absolutely need bar codes on your t-shirt products? If you are selling them yourself and not selling them to retailers or highly organized stores?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

question:

would it be better to have a barcode per price instead of per design...... or would you want to have an inventory linked to the point of sale hence the barcode per design

i'm looking to barcode myself after i get my catalog numbers re-figured and was thinking that i could use my catalog numbers as the barcode numbers to help with organizing


b


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

The whole purpose of the barcode is to identify specific items, not only style, but size, color, etc. 

While originally designed to speed up and make more accurate the grocery store checkout process, they are even more important these days for their use in tracking sales for inventory replenishment and setting stock levels.

Definitely, assign your catalog numbers to the codes. There are a number of "under $20 programs" that will allow you to import your inventory and print the correct number of labels for each item.

POS software will do this automatically.


----------



## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

man... didnt think about adding the sizes in the catalog number.... i might have to add letters in the catalog numbers to help decifer things.....

so i'm thinking that a 10-11 number/letter system would work then?.... or should i create a 3-9 number set just incase i want to go global?....

say i create a system 237-12b45h894 would this be right for a 3-9 setup?.... considering the company 2 :2:37am : then i could use 237 for the beginning...then this way i can secure that it's my code from the get?......

trying to think of it as a whole just in case i have to transition to a higher level in the future


thanks
b


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

If you are going to use UPC codes, you need to register with them and get assigned numbers.

If you are going to use your own, make them as simple as possible.

From a retailer's point of view, being forced to work with a supplier's "functional numbers" (that mean something to the engineer who designed them, but nobody else) is a real pain in the butt. They could not care less what they mean, they just want straight 6 to 8 digit numbers that are easy to work with, no dashes, no spaces, just a string of numbers.

KISS!
.


----------



## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

thanks.... seems like a pita to really organize and all that....... i mean having a barcode for everything...shyt, i would be at over 300 different barcodes at least right now.......


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

How many do you thing someone like Kraft Foods or Proctor & Gamble has?

Use a POS program, it will creat them for you.

Or, you can just do the style and then chose the size at checkout.

I recommended a FREE POS system that auto-assign numbers across the size/color/price spectrum

Welcome to POSitive Software Company - Home

It will do it all for you. And print the labels or tags, too!
.


----------



## jdarracott (Sep 3, 2007)

Pete: Noticed your Virginia is for lovers T. Is that your program with the Virginia Dept. of tourism?


----------



## LogoDaddy (Sep 26, 2007)

You can make Bar Codes in Corel X3 with your own #'s


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

That's just the logo as an avatar. I'm sure the shirts would be licensed.
.


----------



## g.lupo (Aug 20, 2007)

i found a software for code 39, is that what you have to get to make the barcodes so you dont have to pay the council,


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

That should do it. If it's a regular label printing program, just load your item codes into the database and it should spit them out.

I've downloaded just 3 of 9 fonts several times, but never could do anything with them. But with a regular label program you should be good to go.
.


----------



## g.lupo (Aug 20, 2007)

one more question. if you supply the same shirt to different retailers, do you have to have a different code for each retailer. for example ihave have shirt B with code B12345, i bring it to retailer G, now retailer F wants that shirt, can i have the same code or do i need to change it for each retailer


----------



## paulo (Dec 13, 2006)

Do you think your own UPC will be necessary? Affliction, Christian Audigier, Ed Hardy, don't even put UPC Codes on their hangtags.


----------



## peteVA (Nov 11, 2007)

Same one for all. You are making much more out of it than it is.

As long as you don't have a set of numbers that conflicts with some they are already using you should be OK. 
.


----------



## Kisache (Jan 28, 2008)

Subscribing to thread.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Kisache said:


> Subscribing to thread.


You can also click the bar at the top of the thread that says "Thread Tools" and click the "Subscribe to Thread" link on any thread you want to stay updated on.


----------



## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

bump....

should i add a size number and a color number in my catalog numbers hen i make my own barcode?...

i have my shirts colors as letters at the end of the cat number...but in the order sheet they just write in the color of the shirt they want.....

would having a size number really matter?....maybe i can add it at the end after the shirt color...hmmm

b


----------



## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Yeah, that's what we've done. 

You can check out the system that I came up with here:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/general-t-shirt-selling-discussion/t39785.html#post234018

It's long, but simple, and it makes it easy to keep track of everything.


----------



## Binary01 (Jun 2, 2007)

cool....

just wanted to make sure i was on the right track........i think i'll just add a number after the last letter (color) for the size........ 1=xs 2=s/etc.......

stay safe......

b


----------



## Mulletboy (Feb 5, 2010)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> Yeah, that's what we've done.
> 
> You can check out the system that I came up with here:
> 
> ...


Only problem that applies to me with your formula in the above link is: The "category" aspect. It seems like you are very general with them. for t shirt, I have ss and ls. I also have 4 styles of tanks, 6 styles of hats etc.... Should I just make this part of my code a 2 didgit #? And if I do, does that hinder me from making a 3-9 code? 

I am also having trouble understanding the barcode aspect... Do I use the 3-9 code as my sku # and my barcode#? How is the barcode made, so I can print it out?


----------

