# any suggestions for a mom and dad wanting to do printing for a local high school band - mostly 1 color designs



## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

Hi all. I've been poking around the forums to try to figure out what I need to get started and decided to go ahead and become a member. I have a couple of kids in a high school band and my wife and I have been helping with merchandising over the last year. We have lost our local contact that was helping with our printing and being involved in the computer field got me thinking about other options for us to do our own printing. So, here I am. 

We only do this to help fund our band and keep cost down on the shirts we have made for us, but we do seem to go through enough quantity to make it worth investing in our own setup. We had just had about 10-15 different designs custom made for us over the last year and supplemented our inventory with preprinted shirts for fund raising at contests and such. I would say we sold about 1000 shirts. We also did custom bracelets, hats, bags and such. So, I'm really interested in the possibility of printing those up myself if its feasible, but shirts are really the focus.

I initially thought the dtg was what we would want to look at, but now I'm reconsidering because over 75% of what we print is on black tshirts. We also use red shirts for probably 15% and if I read correctly dtg might not be a good option for dark shirts. We tend to do mostly single color designs in white, but might want to do more variety if we could do our own things.

So, if this is the wrong place to question you guys on what I should look at then please direct me to a better place. I don't have a fortune to spend, but I want to get quality stuff that won't wear out quickly or wear me out through frustration. I don't mind spending a few thousand to get setup as long as it still makes sense that I can recoop my cost in a reasonable amount of time. 

From the little I've read I'm thinking I might do best to start with a good press and a Roland GX-24 to get me going, but I'm in serious need of direction on where to go from there. I have plenty of access to computers, laptops, color laser printers and am open to buying inkjets if thats better. Do I want to just stick with vinyl to start with since we mostly just want single color stuff on black? What kind of software is going to make my life easier? Is this newer stretchy stuff what makes the designs less rigid so they are more comfortable? Help please!


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> From the little I've read I'm thinking I might do best to start with a good press and a Roland GX-24 to get me going, but I'm in serious need of direction on where to go from there. I have plenty of access to computers, laptops, color laser printers and am open to buying inkjets if thats better. Do I want to just stick with vinyl to start with since we mostly just want single color stuff on black?


Yes, I think for what you describe (one color t-shirts on black), a good heat press and a vinyl cutter would be a perfect combination for you. It would not only allow you to do t-shirts, hoodies, and other clothing, it would also allow you to do stickers/decals for the band, which are good sellers/giveaways.

All you would need to do after that is setup a wholesale account at a place like SanMar, TSCApparel, AlphaShirt.com that wholesales apparel and then start pressing 

Oh yeah, you would need some vinyl material for t-shirts and vinyl material for decals.

As far as software, are you familiar with any particular software program now? Sometimes what you already have will work. 



> Is this newer stretchy stuff what makes the designs less rigid so they are more comfortable?


If you use a lightweight vinyl material, it should be fine for t-shirts and make it more comfortable than thicker vinyl. I think imprintables.com carries some lightweight vinyl.



> I have plenty of access to computers, laptops, color laser printers and am open to buying inkjets if thats better.


Inkjets is definitely not better than vinyl, especially for 1 color designs on black. Vinyl is the way to go.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I do agree with Rodney but I think plastisol transfers would save you a lot of time and could be economical for you as well. Lou


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

What about silk screen printing? Are there arts and shop classes in the school? Shop class could build a few single color presses and art class could do the printing. I'm not talking about this being a classroom educational material but volunteers after class projects? Possibly craft club? Sounds like a very worthwhile endeavor, all the best of luck to you.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks for the quick response guys. I hadn't even thought about decals, thats a great idea. :tipthank: Have you seen anything around about custom wrist bands? The ones we've had in the past are silkscreen on vinyl bands, but seems like we could do something similar with different material if needed.



Rodney said:


> Oh yeah, you would need some vinyl material for t-shirts and vinyl material for decals.
> 
> As far as software, are you familiar with any particular software program now? Sometimes what you already have will work.


Is there a thread here that can point me to for which vinyl is better than another for my application? 

I don't have much experience with desktop publishing so I don't really have experience with any software that I can think of that would be related. 



badalou said:


> I do agree with Rodney but I think plastisol transfers would save you a lot of time and could be economical for you as well. Lou


I'm all about saving time and I'd like to do more 2 or 3 color designs that are similar to our logos or even just use our logo. If plastisol is a good addition or alternative I should consider, then I'm all ears.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

DTFuqua said:


> What about silk screen printing? Are there arts and shop classes in the school? Shop class could build a few single color presses and art class could do the printing. I'm not talking about this being a classroom educational material but volunteers after class projects? Possibly craft club? Sounds like a very worthwhile endeavor, all the best of luck to you.


I did think about that first because most of our stuff has been silk screen in the past, but we were hoping to be able to do less guess work on what will sell and running out of stock or having to over stock. If we can print our own stuff as its needed I'm thinking we could just stock blanks and print as needed and possibly offer customization per item.


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## chonkymonky (Apr 1, 2007)

hello masterkoin. you say you read somewhere that DTG does not work well with black shirts? i think you read wrong my good friend..hehe. DTG is probably the only way to get complex, full color designs printed on black shirts. you can get photo-realistic images on black with a DTG printer. thats something you cant do with silk screening or vinyl. only other way to get photos on black is with opaque heat transfers..and id stay away from those if i were you..hehe. 

but if all you're gonna do are simple one or two color designs..then id say the vinyl cutter is the way to go. im gonna buy one real soon myself. i do mostly sublimation..but sometimes i get clients that want one or two shirts with one color images on black. i turn them down because im not about to set up my silk screen for one or two shirts. now with the vinyl cutter i wont have to turn away those clients.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Since you were looking in the direction of DTG, that tells me you are not limted in budget, since DTG cost is by far the highest as far as investment go ($10K-on up) though some people claimed to have recuperated the cost of their DTG printer, your application would probably not be in the same boat. A good plotter cutter ( a lot of people here in the forum uses roland gx-24, and so do i), a good printer equipped with a continuous ink system of pigment ink , and a good press with timer and auto release would set you back a ot less than a DTG and would probably meet your needs. As far as software, corel draw or other graphic software and the cutting software from roland is all you need to get started. Good luck. I'm pretty sure you'd get a lot more help from the people here in the forum. I have been perusing thru most of the topics relating to heat transfers, vinyl, heat press, etc...


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I would get a name brand heat press and order plastisol transfers. This is by far the easiest way to produce a garment with the feel and look of screen orint. This will allow you to only print when you need more inventort. ..... JB


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Masterkoin said:


> I did think about that first because most of our stuff has been silk screen in the past, but we were hoping to be able to do less guess work on what will sell and running out of stock or having to over stock. If we can print our own stuff as its needed I'm thinking we could just stock blanks and print as needed and possibly offer customization per item.


Then I would definitely look into plastisol as Lou & JB mentioned. The beauty of it is you store the transfers and just whip 'em out when you need to and press it onto a shirt. Vinyl is a good solution but I sure wouldn't want to spend time weeding every single design ... especially if they are detailed.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm in kind of the same situation with 2 high school kids involved with the band. They currently have someone else handling the account but they are also a bit flaky at times when it comes to delivering on time.

Since this particular band only orders things 30-40 at a time and we already have a GX-24 and a heat press, we're going to use that for now. I'm trying to talk them into planning ahead so we can order plastisol transfers and keep a couple of months supply here. It's cheaper in the long run and a lot less time spent since we don't have to weed anything.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

So when you guys talk about using Plastisol transfers are you talking about ordering custom preprinted transfers that would just be mailed out to me? What is the average cost each I can expect for this type of thing for say qty. 100 two color design that would be 12.5 x 12.5 (which I'm guessing would be average)? 

Is it realistic for me to think I can print up custom add-ons as needed on vinyl with a gx-24 at a merchandize booth in a timely manner? ex. add your name to a sleave or something along those line.



franzzz1 said:


> Since you were looking in the direction of DTG, that tells me you are not limted in budget, since DTG cost is by far the highest as far as investment go ($10K-on up) though some people claimed to have recuperated the cost of their DTG printer, your application would probably not be in the same boat.


Well, we operate on a pretty large budget, but its all done through fundrasing pretty much. So, I'm not scared away by the cost of DTG if I can really recoop the cost, but after reading the details I'm shying away from DTG because it doesn't appear to be a good fit for our needs. We won't be using it daily for sure and the maintenance and potential for things to go wrong in a very expensive way seem to make it not a very realistic option at this point. From my begining figures it looks like we would have to sell well over 2500 shirts just to break even on it if we had no complications. Please correct me if I'm off here because I like the ease of use and quality that I see from DTG.



queerrep said:


> Vinyl is a good solution but I sure wouldn't want to spend time weeding every single design ... especially if they are detailed.


You are scaring me a bit with concern over weeding. I didn't really see that as a big deal, but I'm starting to think it might be. Unskilled manpower is the only thing I really have going for me. Am I wrong in thinking that I can just hand off the cut vinyl to a couple of kids to weed them while I prep the shirt on the press?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I agree custom plastisol transfer from places like Ace transfer, Transfer express of F&M for full unlimited color. It is a print on demand system with a heatpress and is a perfect solution for your needs. I like the vinyl cutter idea Rodney mentioned for decals and you could get a small simple cutter and cover that base easily.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Oh, yes, once a person gets used to it, weeding is easy(and fun), a vinyl product called eazy weed has a sticky backing so that if you accidentally remove a component that is not supposed to be removed, you could just stick it back unto the carrier. The main thing that you have to learn at the start is the amount of force each material needed to get properly cut. It might get a few tries, and you would probaly waste a few square inches of materials, but that is nomal for any endeavor. When you get your equipments, there are a few threads here that would help you out to start, I used this forum to get me started. Im sure everybody here is willing to put put their 2 cents in (most senior members actually contribute a heck of lot more than 2 cents )


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Masterkoin said:


> So when you guys talk about using Plastisol transfers are you talking about ordering custom preprinted transfers that would just be mailed out to me? What is the average cost each I can expect for this type of thing for say qty. 100 two color design that would be 12.5 x 12.5 (which I'm guessing would be average)?


FULL SIZE

Looks like a 2 color full size would be around $2.00 for an order of 100. The price drops pretty dramatically when the order size increases....



> Is it realistic for me to think I can print up custom add-ons as needed on vinyl with a gx-24 at a merchandize booth in a timely manner? ex. add your name to a sleave or something along those line.


Figure a minute or two to type the name into Corel/AI, about 30 seconds for the cutter to cut (assuming it's already loaded with the correct vinyl) and another minute to weed. Once you get the hang of it, it could easily be less than 5 minutes start to finish.



> You are scaring me a bit with concern over weeding. I didn't really see that as a big deal, but I'm starting to think it might be. Unskilled manpower is the only thing I really have going for me. Am I wrong in thinking that I can just hand off the cut vinyl to a couple of kids to weed them while I prep the shirt on the press?


It all depends on the complexity of the design. Some weed very easily, others can be a LOT more difficult.

That's the beauty of the plastisol transfers... place them on the shirt, press and they're done. I'm working on an order of 250 jackets right now that we initially were going to use a 2 color twill/vinyl combination. Once I realized how long it was going to take me to cut and weed 500 pieces and the plastisol transfers were half the cost, it was an easy decision


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## Darklight (May 22, 2007)

COEDS said:


> I would get a name brand heat press and order plastisol transfers. This is by far the easiest way to produce a garment with the feel and look of screen orint. This will allow you to only print when you need more inventort. ..... JB


I agree! If we are talking about hundreds of shirts, weeding the vinyl can be fairly time consuming depending on the design. Plastisol transfers are a few seconds (maybe a minute) per shirt. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck!


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks again guys for hold my hand on this. Just looking for you guys to check over my proposal for equipment. Am I right in thinking that by going with the better industry standard gear over lower cost hobbiest gear, that if all else fails we could recover alot of our investment by selling it off.

Looks to me like the heat press is my most important decision to get me started. After much reading and reviewing I'm leaning toward the *Hix HT-400D* ($900) as a sure thing. It looks like its the most affordable of the auto open models that is big enough and portable enough to serve our needs. I don't think the cost savings of the non auto models is worth the difference in cost. I am concerned that I'll wish it was a 16x20, but I am concerned that we will want to use it in merchandize booths and the power and portablility will be a problem.

I think we will go ahead and get a cutter because it looks like we can use it for alot of other things even if we mostly order Plastisol transfers. I'm not sure if the *Roland GX-24* ($1500) is going to be worth the money for us even though it appears to be the standard. The main uses I'm seeing up front that might help recover the cost would be add-on customization of tshirts at a merchandize booth along with custom decals (rear windows come to mind). Just not sure if there will be enough profit here to cover it. Am I missing some uses or is there maybe something more affordable to get me going?

So, I've got a guesstimate cost of those two pieces of equipment along with my *Tee Square* , *Tee Pads*, *EZ off*, *teflon sheets* (am I missing anything) at about $2500. 

Later I can see adding an Epson C88 w/continuous ink supply for some more customization, but I'd like to see us get even on the necessities first.


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## timandmikki (Aug 30, 2006)

I think the transfers would be good for you.. You could press the shirts at your concession stand and not have a bunch already printed laying around.


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## curtrnev (May 28, 2007)

You didn't mention any software in your list.Do you already have some and if so will it work with the Roland with plug ins etc.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

You can do decals, t-shirts, coroplast signage and banners with the GX-24 plotter. You might check with Josh at Imprintables Warehouse for a pkg. deal. They are a forum sponsor and Josh is a great guy to deal with.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

curtrnev said:


> You didn't mention any software in your list.Do you already have some and if so will it work with the Roland with plug ins etc.


Still a bit unsure about that. I'm guessing I'll use Corel Draw since Roland lists it as compatible. A little afraid learning to work with the software might be the hard part.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Masterkoin said:


> Still a bit unsure about that. I'm guessing I'll use Corel Draw since Roland lists it as compatible. A little afraid learning to work with the software might be the hard part.


As a matter of fact you can download an add-on from roland that would place an roland activation button on the Corel draw menu bar which would automatically open a roland cutting page with your design already in it ready for cutting.


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## curtrnev (May 28, 2007)

I have Corel X3 and used it a lot to cut from without the plugin.I have Illy CS3 and use the plugin there, go figure.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Try looking at the site for uscutter. Their Copam is supposed to be a more industrial class machine than the roland at less than half the price. You won't get some of the features as the roland but it should hold up better and for vinyl, it should be better. And yes you can heat press the plastisol and then customise with the vinyl transfer you cut on site with the cutter.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Does this Copam have an optical sensor that detects the printed material like the gx-24 ? This feature is what makes the gx-24 worth a lot more, you can print graphics design and then tell the gx-24 where you want to cut it !


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## Darklight (May 22, 2007)

Masterkoin said:


> Thanks again guys for hold my hand on this. Just looking for you guys to check over my proposal for equipment. Am I right in thinking that by going with the better industry standard gear over lower cost hobbiest gear, that if all else fails we could recover alot of our investment by selling it off.
> 
> Looks to me like the heat press is my most important decision to get me started. After much reading and reviewing I'm leaning toward the *Hix HT-400D* ($900) as a sure thing. It looks like its the most affordable of the auto open models that is big enough and portable enough to serve our needs. I don't think the cost savings of the non auto models is worth the difference in cost. I am concerned that I'll wish it was a 16x20, but I am concerned that we will want to use it in merchandize booths and the power and portablility will be a problem.
> 
> ...


Despite my earlier post about the time consuming nature of vinyl in quantity, I have the gx-24 and it is a trouble-free machine. Has been worth the money for me many times over.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

DarkLight, Glad to hear that, I was just wondering though, have you had to replace your teflon strip yet ? I messed up a few time and i have multiple gouge on my teflon strip, it is not causing any trouble yet, but i recon i might have to replace it sooner or later, i have not seen it being sold anywhere !


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Masterkoin said:


> ....Corel Draw .... A little afraid learning to work with the software might be the hard part.


That's where your kids are going to really kick in for you!! Seems to me the kids take to these programs like ducks to water, see which one has some design skills, alot of them seem to have a knack for running around these programs, I don't mean just CD, but almost anything.. could be bc they have grown up with them.. just a thought.

Here is a few threads for you if you'd like to get some more plastisol pricing:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-crossover-diary-heat-press-newbie/t13454.html#post86511

and:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t4095.html#post23715

After reading all of your posts, I would say both plastisol and vinyl for you. 

Plastisols for your shirts, for all the wonderful things plastisols are, which is just screen print on a transfer paper that you apply with the press when needed.

Vinyl for the personalization you mentioned, and I couldn't help but think of this great thread I was reading on all the wonderful items you can make with vinyl once you have a cutter like the GX-24.

Here's a link to that thread, the ideas in here got peeps really popping over what some of the others are doing with vinyl. Maybe your band could make some of these awesome things:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t54840.html#post325567

As far as less expensive cutter, possibly a Graphtec CE5000-60 might fill your need. Take a look at the specs on that one. Both the Roland and the Graphtec cutters are popular on the forum. A search on each will return threads on user's experiences. 

If you click the link at the left of the forum, preferred vendors, and scroll to the bottom of the page, you will see who offers a discount to forum members. Remember to check these numbers when you price shop. 

Best wishes to you. Kelly


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I would add a LOGO IT( from the maker of the teesquareit), this is a great left chest alignment tool.I would also look into getting quickbooks for accounting purposes. I would also get a nice hat press( Hix b250). I like the Hix equipment for dependability. ... JB


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

We really haven't sold many hats in the past, but maybe its just been our product. Do you guys think hats are really worth the cost of the hat press?


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## timandmikki (Aug 30, 2006)

I bought my hat press for a job over a year ago, have not used it since.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

for hats, embroidery is actually the preferred method of personalization.


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## Ruby MHarvey (Mar 29, 2008)

I am also looking for a company that will do more that one color transfers. Can anyone direct me in the right direction? Thanks in advance Ruby


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## Ruby MHarvey (Mar 29, 2008)

I really can't be of much help I am kind of in the situation you are in I work for a school district and have done many embroidered shirts, but peiple are wanting screen printing or heat transfer an I have goten my press and now I am looking for a company that will do more that one color transfers. I need this like yesterday.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Look for F&M or Ace Transfer, their links are well documented on this site...


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Try some local people before you send your money out of town. I believe in working with your neighbors before looking to out of towner's, especially with freight costs nowadays.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

Are there any tricks to figuring out who my local vendors might be? I've found stuff like coroplast from sign supply places and such, but only tshirt things are a few companies that sell them and so far they all seem to be sending their work out to undisclosed places.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Phone book, google, internet yellow pages? You might also try glancing at shipping labels if you can get close enough to your competitors on delivery day.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

DTFuqua said:


> Try some local people before you send your money out of town. I believe in working with your neighbors before looking to out of towner's, especially with freight costs nowadays.


Most of use companies out of town that way we are not the compitition in town. Peolple like ace transfer and F&M are set up to do this type of work. Most local printers just do tee shirts and do not make transfers.


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## Darklight (May 22, 2007)

franzzz1 said:


> DarkLight, Glad to hear that, I was just wondering though, have you had to replace your teflon strip yet ? I messed up a few time and i have multiple gouge on my teflon strip, it is not causing any trouble yet, but i recon i might have to replace it sooner or later, i have not seen it being sold anywhere !



No, still on the same strip after 14 months. The Roland is idiot proof (according to my wife) lol.


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## Darklight (May 22, 2007)

badalou said:


> Most of use companies out of town that way we are not the compitition in town. Peolple like ace transfer and F&M are set up to do this type of work. Most local printers just do tee shirts and do not make transfers.



I agree with Lou. In my area, a very nice couple that screen prints said they would TRY making transfers for me....it may work out great, but it tells me they havent been doing it. A simple order maybe, but anything huge they arent ready for !


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

If I can find a screen printer, should I seriously consider it an option to have them make plastisol transfers for me over using one of the standard companies I see here?


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

After reading Lous and Darklights post I can see their points. Your either helping your competition or can't be sure about what your gonna find, if you can find anything locally. As far as helping your competitors,I feel the evil you know is better that the one you don't know. I would check them out a see if I could get what I need and what would I be giving up. I reckon the exporting of our nations wealth as well as jobs has me on a "buy american" binge which I bring down to the local level, besides I like doing business face to face. I'ld say look at all your options and good luck.


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## Masterkoin (Jul 23, 2008)

I say yes to the Buy American binge, but I'm really not concerned about competition at this point because we are kind of in a different situation where we have our own private market about 90% of the time. So, because we have lots of free labor we are more concerned with keeping cost low, retail prices affordable, quality and profits high.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

COEDS said:


> I would add a LOGO IT( from the maker of the teesquareit), this is a great left chest alignment tool.I would also look into getting quickbooks for accounting purposes. I would also get a nice hat press( Hix b250). I like the Hix equipment for dependability. ... JB


 Oh I think I "know" someone who's getting a hat press real soon.


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