# Anybody else done this? Stopped taking smaller embroidery orders and customer supplied items?



## ApparelFarm (Nov 25, 2010)

Hey all,

I am just coming off a five day stretch working on smaller jobs that take a lot of time and pay too little. Had one lady complain about one firkin thread being out of place and I am not talking about something I stitched it came from the supplier that way.

Here is what I am thinking... I would like to stop accepting work from the soccer moms, teams and 1 or 2 person businesses. And I hate stitching on apparel someone brings to me and they want it on the cheep.

Seems like I would have better spent the last 5 days landing good paying accounts then doing Mrs. Johnson's team shirts.

I am sure some of you have been in my place. Let me know how it worked out for you. Thanks


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

Amen Brutha!

I know exactly what you mean, I have a sublimation customer that I just had to break ties with. The time/frustration/profit factors were way off balance.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I can feel your pain! When we moved from a retail location into a more industrial building, some of that stopped, or at least slowed down.

You can also price your work so it is a little less painful. We maintain multiple price sheets based upon the customer and job type.

Set a per invoice minimum charge and stick to it. My accountant and I crunched the numbers once and it was almost a ten dollar per invoice expense in administrative and sales overhead. Time = $.

No more "Free" stock design setups on BYO jobs either. Or set an minimum order size for free setups.

And limit the choices so you can limit the time spent just getting the order written up. We offer only a limited number of fonts and thread colors. 

And when al else fails, have a number handy for that one competitor you would like to see chole on onesy orders and send them up the road. Sounds brutal, and I'm exageratting a little, but it si true. The only person in oit to protect your time and wallet is you.


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## clsgraphics2100 (Nov 20, 2007)

I cater to the small quantity customers. I don't gouge them with the price but I charge to make a profit. They pay up front and they are informed at some point that embroidery is an art not a science. Sewing the same design on twill and sewing it on a pique shirt will not look exactly the same. Do I get some unhappy customers, yes, we all do, but I have also had some customers that were unhappy when they left but they came back later because they received a good job at a reasonable price and were told ahead of time what to expect.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Not sure where "gouging" came into play but let's take this to the next level. Customer walks in and wants one piece embroidered on 1 shirt from the nearby Wally World. Simple little stock design setup with some lettering, maybe a soccer mom type of thing. You set it up and it ends up 10,000 stitches. What do you charge?


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

If I can't make a profit on it I don't do it. My customers understand that it will cost them more to do one piece than if they did a dozen pieces. I am very particular about customer supplied goods and do not accept them unless I know the quality. If they got it at Walmart more than likely I will say no to the job. Onesie can be a pain but they do lead to the larger orders.


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## propsuper (Mar 23, 2008)

Our charge on that one shirt w/10.000 stitches would be 17.50. We charge 12.50 (we call it a hoop charge) for up to 5,000 stitches and $ 1.00 per thousand above 5,000.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

As half of a two person clothing business, getting embroidered shirts to sell is soooooo frustrating. 65 bucks to digitize, then overpriced clothing in store that I know I can get cheaper. But if I bring in my own gildan polos the price per piece is now 11 dollars instead of 7. I know companies need to make money from doing the embroidery but it is completely pointless for me to pay 20 bucks for a polo that is only going to sell for 30. I got polos double sided discharge screen printed for under 9 dollars each size medium to 3x. There is no way it is more work and time and materials to sew a left chest text design. I can't find a fair embroidery price to save my life. I'd like to get a relationship going with a shop because in the long run I need a stock of about 150 items but compared to my screen printed shirts, embroidery is overpriced.


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I will do orders for just 1 piece but no longer take their item to sew on. too much junk . If i supply the item and do the sewing I will make a profit


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Other than the rare exception as a favor for a personal friend I wont embroidered on customer supplied items. 

As far as quantity, I generally try and set minimums for most types of orders.

However, I have to admit I make my decision mostly on a personal preference and less a financial one. I started this business for a few of reasons, money not really being the main one. While extra money is always nice and I appreciate it, I am blessed to be retired and not need the income from this business. However if I did need the income I would do any size job I could get until I was so busy I was forced to reassess my business before increasing sales further.

As I built up my previous businesses before I retired I generally used this strategy.

Early on I went after most all the sales I could regardless of ease and pleasure. Profit was always the biggest factor in that decision. As my business grew and become both busier and more profitable I tweaked things. I would really analyze my numbers. I determined at some points in time, because of the added expense doing more business required, instead I would narrow my focus and scale back on some of the types of sales that led to more time, hassle and expenses. I instead concentrated more on the sales which were simplest and required the least expenses to achieve. This led to being quite a bit more profitable and by continually watching these things my business kept getting easier while at the same time more profitable as the years went forward. 

Basically at a certain point, more sales is not always more profitable, but instead culling out the least profitable types of sales and replacing them with more profitable sales numbers enables you to lower expenses and create a leaner more profitable business. By repeating this process throughout the years, I found it to be the best and most profitable way to grow a business.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I guess since I asked the question it is only fair I answer...

One piece 10K stitches simple setup on a BYO would be $19.00. $15 if we provide the garment.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Oh my, if you only knew of what you speak. It's really easy, go buy the $15000 software and the $20,000 to $60,000 machine and have at it.

What most people don't realize is how slow the embroidery process really is. Your "simple text design" still takes time to setup, time to sample and time to run. This 10,000 stitch design we are discussing will take at least20 minutes to hoop and run.

But it does sound like you need to find a true contract decorator. $65 setp sounds maybe a little high. And I'm assuming for resale you are not sewing one piece at a time?



SoAmpd said:


> As half of a two person clothing business, getting embroidered shirts to sell is soooooo frustrating. 65 bucks to digitize, then overpriced clothing in store that I know I can get cheaper. But if I bring in my own gildan polos the price per piece is now 11 dollars instead of 7. I know companies need to make money from doing the embroidery but it is completely pointless for me to pay 20 bucks for a polo that is only going to sell for 30. I got polos double sided discharge screen printed for under 9 dollars each size medium to 3x. There is no way it is more work and time and materials to sew a left chest text design. I can't find a fair embroidery price to save my life. I'd like to get a relationship going with a shop because in the long run I need a stock of about 150 items but compared to my screen printed shirts, embroidery is overpriced.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

I have seen the process before from a couple shops so i know the prices I'm getting are up there. Maryland seems like a hard place to get things done locally. I think i will move to cali. For now the search is still on.


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

WoW

Go ahead and move to California, the cost of living and doing business there is fabulous...

You think getting someone non-local is going to be better than establishing yourself with someone near you? So you order the shirts, pay the shipping to you, send the shirts for embroidery and pay the shipping there, then pay the shipping to get them back to you. 

Brilliant plan.

Im an embroiderer that doesn't have so much work that I need to turn any away, but at the same time I know when Im dealing with someone that will be a losing proposition.


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## Meatwagon (May 28, 2009)

This is a tough question and my wife and I go around and around with this, especially around the holidays(we do cutoff outside early). Then again, retail gift represents a much larger chunk of our business. We like getting people in the door because they rarely ever get just embroidery. 

If you just do embroidery/apparel, then if I could I would just do my own.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I know companies need to make money from doing the embroidery but it is completely pointless for me to pay 20 bucks for a polo that is only going to sell for 30. I got polos double sided discharge screen printed for under 9 dollars each size medium to 3x. There is no way it is more work and time and materials to sew a left chest text design


@SoAmpd please start a new topic for your posts about finding an embroidery company  That way this thread can stay on topic for those that do embroidery. We have a section of the forum to ask for a specific referral to a printing business.


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## fubarsport (Sep 12, 2011)

One policy we have is "We don't stock the item we can't work on it" reason if its damage or done wrong we can't replace it


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

Honestly $30 for a shirt you have $20 into with NO EFFORTS of your own is one heck of a profit margin... 50% ain't good enough for you?


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Iconify said:


> Honestly $30 for a shirt you have $20 into with NO EFFORTS of your own is one heck of a profit margin... 50% ain't good enough for you?


I don't want to hijack this thread, but that is a *mark up* of 50% which results in a gross profit margin of only 33% . If you wanted to achieve a GPM of 50% it would require a mark up of 100% or in this case selling for $40.


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

It's always gotta happen...

Call it what you want, he had 50% more money in his pocket than he started with.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm not calling it what I want, I'm calling it what it is.

If you sell something for $30 and your COGS is $20 your profit is $10 or 33%.






> he had 50% more money in his pocket than he started with


 

Only if he/she somehow has zero cost in running that $30 in sales through their operation. In reality businesses have overhead. Fixed costs and expenses running the business needed to generate and complete their sales. Things like advertising, rents, web expense, utilities, insurance fixed salaries, etc. It is the difference between the gross profit and overhead that is the true net profit.

I apologize if you think I am being difficult, I am really not intending to be. I just see so many young people starting out and reading this site, and I didn't want them confusing the two. Understanding this is so very important. I have seen people go out of business and others struggle for years trying to make their business more profitable because they never really understood this.


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

Since you'd probably be happier if I said 50% MARKUP sobeit.

The point I was getting at before Economics 101 started was:

A: this is just the kind of guy this topic was started for

B: he is trying to make more MARKUP than the embroidery guy who invested the time, money, and effort.

C: he is trying to do ALL of this without the overhead that the embroidery shop has.

So really, I don't care about the mincing of words relating to proper accounting practices and terminology. This thread was created to discuss when to let-one-go, and it just so happened that a prime example of one I'd surely let-go popped in with 3 total posts since joining and decided to let all of us embroiderers know how mean and expensive we all are.


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## SoAmpd (Feb 3, 2011)

Yikes. Didn't mean to start a thing. The original poster just happened to be talking about the same thing I was dealing with at that exact moment. As for how to treat those customers that want something you don't want to do, I think in any business for yourself you get to exercise your options. If you don't want to take little orders find a way to exist with out them.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Iconify said:


> Since you'd probably be happier if I said 50% MARKUP sobeit.
> 
> The point I was getting at before Economics 101 started was:
> 
> ...


All very good points, and I apologize if I distracted from them. That wasn't my intention.


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## Meatwagon (May 28, 2009)

A standard net profit for most retail stores is about 8-10%. If you're netting more than that, you're in great shape and have nothing to complain about.


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## holcomb (Dec 5, 2007)

Back to the original topic. There is nothing wrong with decorating "outside" garments as long as it is a win win. We have been in the business for 17 years and have a long list of customers that started out as a one piece order and turned into large accounts for us. We don't turn away small orders for that reason. The key is to make sure the profit margin is there from the start. Customer service is king in this business. We have developed a three tier pricing structure to insure correct margins. We have a price list for embroidery on garments we supply, another price list for customer supplied garments we couldn't supply through our vendors (Costco, Target, etc.), and the third and most important, a price list for garments brought in that we could of supplied for our regular vendors. There are those customers who will somehow use a re-sale number to buy direct from our suppliers and the there are some who prefer to go online and buy there own.
We always explain our price structure to the customers and most understand and buy through us on the next order. If you have any competition in your area you can't afford to send business away.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Some more thoughts on this topic. Once a person has sat down and evaluated his/her business if they have determined to not offer a service, how you say no and explain why not is crucial. 

Like many factors of your business, it often comes down to salesmanship. Don't just say no, instead turn a "perceived" negative into a positive.

When I first approached what is now one of my better customers, I was told sorry we always buy our shirts on sale from Walmart and then just take them to a local embroiderer to be embroidered. They basically didn't even want me to even quote their business since I wouldn't price just the embroidery on their goods.

I explained to them the benefits of dealing with me.

_Receiving higher more consistent quality shirts._

_Being able to order the same shirts each season instead of picking from what style & color was on hand at WM, and that doing so would be more uniform and professional in appearance._

_I would save them time, gas, and hassle, by them never having to leave their office. I would take the order from them, complete and hand deliver them. They would have the benefit of dealing only with one professional that would handle all the details and leg work for them._

_Lastly even with all those benefits, my prices would still be competitive to what they had been doing._

They now order each spring and fall a combination of shirts, hats, and jackets. The other embroiderer that had been embroidering on their Walmart purchased goods really offered nothing unique, but instead had just agreed to the customers initial low price request of what they "_thought"_ they wanted. I am offering a professional service, which they now greatly appreciate.

Every business is so very different that there is no correct answer as to what should be or shouldn't be offered. However once you do determine what is best, be creative when explaining it. Have a story that explains the why for the how. Ask questions of the customer that will then allow you to show them how your company can be a benefit to them.

Don't feel that you must be the same as your competition in order to compete with them. Don't be afraid to draw the distinction between yourself and others. There is always an explained benefit with those distinctions if you look for it and explain it properly to the customer.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Please send all of your 'one off' customers to me. Nearly all of our top 10 customers, which represent 40% of our gross revenue, came from one-offs. I can point to 2 individuals that brought nearly all of this to us with referrals, and from there, referrals from referrals. 

We only fire a customer when they repeatedly abuse our good nature. But we do give each one a chance or 2 before they are dispatched for bad behavior.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

If a job you do "is not worth the time" to produce, then charge more for that proceedure. If the quality is not worth the price, then it wont be at a higher volume lower price either. The quick way around this is to set an hourly price and stick to it. A "PITA" charge or a set-up is only there to offset a real cost, to create an incentive for more efficient workload or to bring an hourly rate up to a minimum level.


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## AlicesAttic (May 10, 2011)

I think we all need to respect each process of this business. The embroiderer has time, set up, etc. etc. etc. to do what they do. The end user "retail" has costs associated with their retail location. Retailers need to understand the embroiderer and embroiderer's need to understand the retailer. Does that make sense? To imply that a retailer sells with 0 sweat equity is just not true. There is so much that goes into it. Likewise the embroiderer and even the screeners, etc. also have add'l expenses and work hard to do what they do. They are both two complete seperate business entiites.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

We charge $10 for single jobs that fit in a standard size hoop. That assumes we don't have to send it out for digitizing. If we are busy the single jobs can be an annoyance but we do it for good customer relations. If we are in our busy season, we don't small jobs from anyone.


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## Mabuzi (Jul 3, 2007)

We dont not embroider on BYO. The margins are so tight as it is and the risk is great. 
If you do BYO, put trading terms on your point of sale for damaged goods. We do not take responsibility yadah yadah


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## daddyoslogos (Aug 24, 2011)

I love all my customers. Big or Small, Bulk or singles, i just take care of them. I dont mind at all if they bring in there own items.... helping them helps me. I just get through it.


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