# Delete



## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

*Closed*

Closed - closed


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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

I used part of one of the university logo's (horns) and attached it to a face...


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## Miner Wear (Sep 3, 2012)

How does the Uni know its part of their logo?

Have you used part of their logo and shown the Uni in a bad light?


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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

i dont know how they found it, but it is one of there logos for there sports teams..

I just want to know if I should be concerned with this.


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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

I only produced 2 t shirts..


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Doesn't matter how many still violated the law.
Instead of asking here were there are no attorneys it would probably be better to get with one before the big hammer falls. See what he would say. If anything might be able to stop any further monies or legal action. What happned to someone here might not be what will happen to you or could happen.


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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

Well, I feel like people here might be able to get a better understanding of the wording... It seems as if.. as long as I comply they will not push into legal action.


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## beanie357 (Mar 27, 2011)

Retain an attorney to ensure you close this out with the least personal damage.

How you were found is irrelevant. Their attorney expects a response in a manner befitting the serious nature they ascribe to their property.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

The problem is maybe next week the lawyer will get in a fight with his/her spouse and want to take it out on someone and if you happen to be in the line of fire you may just get it with all the force they can muster.....So despite your wanting an opinion from someone here, no one will be able to predict with any accuracy what they will do to you.....


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## NeonTees (Apr 25, 2010)

First, remove the offending images right away. Second, call them and apologize telling them that it was one or two shirts that sold and that you didn't know. Third, hope they let you off with a promise to not do it again.

Of course, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Only a lawyer will give real legal advice. 


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

again its lawyer wording and really you probably would get two different answers from two different lawyers. They never speak in straight forward english.
Find one that gives a free consultation if possible and let him or her tell ya.


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## mumzie (May 9, 2008)

Talk with an intellectual property attorney before you respond. By saying you'll "remove offending images" you're saying that you've done what they claim.

They may not even be talking about the same thing you are. We live in Univ. of Oregon territory. Just using a green "O" on something could get us into trouble- but in a lot of cases, there's really nothing wrong.

However - I always have people sign a release stating that they own the rights to reproduce an image, unless it's obvious that they don't. That way if they sign it, I'm not in trouble.

I do turn away a lot of business, but it's cheaper to do that than deal with this kind of stuff.


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## kal6150 (Jan 22, 2011)

Don't delete anything and definitely call a lawyer. You need to be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you actually have a letter from the university and not an ambulance chaser. I received a letter from an attorney last year because his friend came in our store looking for banners. He saw a shirt hanging in the back with the logo of a company that his buddy represented. Of course this tool never asked any questions just ordered us to discontinue production (this is a local attraction) dummy didn't know his client was sponsoring a 5k and his buddy was looking at the back of the shirt. Be sure, call the university if you want. Tell them you got a letter from an attorney and want to confirm their legal council.

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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

I do believe it's legit, I looked up CLC and have seen other people deal with them.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

> ...we will advise the University accordingly and suggest a course of legal action.


Looks like the Uni needs to go after you. 

I wouldn't give CLC anything without legal representation. It might be worth a few hundred to a thousand for an attorney. I don't know. 

I know what I would do but I am not an attorney. 

From what you describe as your use and without seeing it I can't make any further comment than good luck.


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## buehrle (Jan 14, 2008)

here is what i would do (i'm not a lawyer but i play one on tv), is the "logo" you used the same as the college ? if you did not use their logo then they will have a tougher time with it. you sold one shirt so it's not the end of the world. call the university and talk to the person that sent the letter. explain that you only made 2 shirts and you will no longer do so. depending on how that conversation goes is how i would think about a lawyer. the college just wants to protect their logo. no offense, but your a nobody to them and they know that they will not get anything out of you. they probably think that you are making tons of shirts and building your dream house off of them. just explain that your a small guy and won't print them again. NO NOT be a prick about it even if they are. take the *** chewing if it comes and move on.a pissing contest will only cost you money. if your not making $ off of them then they really can't say anything about it. i had this kind of happen to me about 10 years ago when i owned a bar and had my logo incorporated into the harley davidson shield as a giveaway shirt (wasn't in the shirt biz yet). i got a letter like you did from harley and talked to them (they have a huge branch to deal with this) and they were very friendly about it. as long as i was not making money off of it or selling there was not much they could do (his words). he said that they have people that surf the web all day long looking for this stuff. if you have any lawyer friends give them a call. if not i would not call one until i needed one because it's gonna cost you $ just to talk to them. don't sweat it, they just wanna get your attention which it sounds like they did.


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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

"Unless CLC receives a comprehensive response to this letter in writing by February 26,2013, including assurances that you have ceased to infringe on the Marks, we will advise the University accordingly and suggest a course of legal action." 


I sent them a response to their letter, I abide by what they are asking. I removed the shirt from the site, and apologized.. I should have not had their logo in the design.

Truth is, the shirt was not selling anyway, only sold that one.

The way they worded this sentence seems as if they will only advise the university to take legal action if I did not comply. correct?


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

wellsjc2 said:


> The way they worded this sentence seems as if they will only advise the university to take legal action if I did not comply. correct?


All anyone here can do is "guess"......So if you are prepared to stake your future on a "guess" here is mine......If you agree to comply, I think that will be the end of the matter.....In my insurance adjuster days I investigated many files to see if the "cease and desist" was being complied with....And most were and most files were closed...

However, having said that, I can say that lawyers and claimants are also unpredictable.....Sometimes they get "bored" and use up some spare time to pursue matters that they may not otherwise if they are busy....Many lawyers are on a "retainer" so if they have nothing else to do they may use up some of their time on you.....


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I would have not responded with out consulting a attorney. You have basicly admitted to infringing. Now they have all the proof they need if they want to persue legal action. With only selling 1 shirt more then likely nothing will happen. 

Not true about if your not selling there's nothing they can do. It's about damages. If you print 3000 shirts and give them out for free isn't any different then selling them. 

As far as the HD shield if you copy it verbatim then there is problems. All the time I see the shield on tons of other stuff. There is a car lot that has the shield here. For a month or 2 they wrapped the sign and then took off the cover. I stopped in and was asking what that was about. They said that HD was causing problems about sign but was determined ok. I asked about making them shirts, now that might be a problem the owner said. The will not be allowed to make any clothing bearing their logo


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## wellsjc2 (Nov 19, 2012)

"Not true about if your not selling there's nothing they can do. It's about damages. If you print 3000 shirts and give them out for free isn't any different then selling them"

.... Only 2 shirts were produced. I understand no difference between selling and giving away, but only 2 were produced.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

How can you prove there were only 2 produced.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

wellsjc2 said:


> "Not true about if your not selling there's nothing they can do. It's about damages. If you print 3000 shirts and give them out for free isn't any different then selling them"
> 
> .... Only 2 shirts were produced. I understand no difference between selling and giving away, but only 2 were produced.


From Purdue University copyright page
Copyright Infringement Penalties
Copyright Infringement Penalties

Copyright infringement is the act of violating any of a copyright owner’s exclusive rights granted by the federal Copyright Act. There are three elements that must be in place in order for the infringement to occur.

The copyright holder must have a valid copyright.
The person who is allegedly infringing must have access to the copyrighted work.
The duplication of the copyrighted work must be outside the exceptions.


The legal penalties for copyright infringement are:

Infringer pays the actual dollar amount of damages and profits.
The law provides a range from $200 to $150,000 for each work infringed.
Infringer pays for all attorneys fees and court costs.
The Court can issue an injunction to stop the infringing acts.
The Court can impound the illegal works.
The infringer can go to jail.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

freebird1963 said:


> From Purdue University copyright page
> Copyright Infringement Penalties
> Copyright Infringement Penalties
> 
> ...


It sounds like this was more of a "trademark" issue than a "copyright" issue, however, it may be that both apply to some degree....


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

royster13 said:


> It sounds like this was more of a "trademark" issue than a "copyright" issue, however, it may be that both apply to some degree....


What Is the Penalty for Violating a Trademark? | LegalZoom: Legal Info

A trademark is a symbol, word or phrase that identifies the source of a product or service. Trademarks are valuable business assets that help consumers distinguish a particular brand in the marketplace. Trademark violations can diminish a brand's value and popularity, costing a business sales and profit. A lawful owner of a registered trademark can protect that trademark by bringing a civil lawsuit. Civil litigation penalties for trademark violation include injunctions and monetary damages.

Cease and Desist Letter
Lawful trademark owners may begin enforcement of a trademark violation by sending the unlawful trademark user a cease and desist letter. Negotiating an agreement to stop the trademark violation is preferable to proceeding with litigation, according to trademark attorney Gregory H. Guillot of GGMark. To avoid the penalties that might result from a trademark violation lawsuit, the person engaging in trademark violation might agree to change her business logo or marketing phrase to avoid confusion with the lawful trademark.

Injunction
Owners of trademarks that have been registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office can bring a civil lawsuit requesting the penalty of an injunction against a person who violates the trademark. An injunction is a court order directing the person who violated the trademark to stop using the trademark unlawfully. An injunction may also order that any goods bearing the trademark be seized and destroyed. Faced with an injunction, the trademark violator must either change her trademark to one that is not likely to be confused with a lawfully registered trademark of another company, or cease doing business.

Monetary Damages
A trademark violator who is sued by the owner of a lawfully registered trademark may be ordered to pay monetary damages. These fiscal penalties are based on lost profits calculated from the sales the trademark violator made while using the trademark illegally. If the court finds that the trademark violation was intentional, such as a case in which the violator is selling goods that he is trying to pass off as coming from a known popular brand, the court may impose penalties of three times the amount of actual lost profits.

Attorneys' Fees
If a trademark violation lawsuit is not settled by agreement prior to trial, and the trademark owner prevails, the court may order the violator to pay the trademark owner's attorney fees and costs of litigation in addition to other penalties. Trademark litigation is an expensive endeavor and the attorneys' fees and costs can be substantial. Avoiding trademark litigation by negotiating a resolution prior to the expenses of trial is a preferable course, according to Guillot.


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## sttbtch (Oct 5, 2010)

Only thing i can tell you is from my experience. Local college use a generic mascot in a generic pose but added a dog tag to the design. Local elementary use same colors and mascot in generic pose. I got a letter stating the were to sue me and get all my equipment and the like. Lawyer called me told me they were going to go after my home. Before i could answer i was served and given a mediation date. All with in a week of giving the elementary their teacher and spirit wear. I took to mediation proof of were i purchased the generic art and where this art was free on the net and the many vendors that carried the generic art. Embroidery designs and the like. I won and got compensation for harassment

What i am saying is. You say you used part of their design. Was it a part that was generic that you could find in other works of art. Did your design say look we are"a&m" drawing attention to the school. Yes copywrite is something to be wary of but sometimes these scools are over reaching as the mediator put it.

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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

In your case you purchased the art and was easily proved. When it comes to art there is no Generic part. Since FreeBird1963 uses Purdue university which is where I live. What would be Generic about the "P" or Purdue Pete. His hammer. NOT. The entire design is trademarked or copyrighted. I can't copy his hammer and put it on a different design. Easily no matter how you change it, can almost always be identified


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## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

sben763 said:


> As far as the HD shield if you copy it verbatim then there is problems. All the time I see the shield on tons of other stuff. There is a car lot that has the shield here. For a month or 2 they wrapped the sign and then took off the cover. I stopped in and was asking what that was about. They said that HD was causing problems about sign but was determined ok. I asked about making them shirts, now that might be a problem the owner said. The will not be allowed to make any clothing bearing their logo


 
I will add to this...

For 20yrs, I worked within the motorcycle industry, with creating airbrushed murals on motorcycles, mainly Harleys. 
I worked closely with shops, bikers, etc and I can tell you that Harley Davidson has guys that go to all of the shows, rallies, shops, etc and when they find the Harley logo or parts/versions thereof in non licensed clothing, etc, they confiscate it right then and there and watch out, because they will/do sue for infringement. 
Disney is also diligently watching.....

A friend of mine works for a company (I won't mention their name) and they got hit for using part of a protected licensed phrase. The lawyers went after them for $500,000 but they got 'lucky' and got away with paying $150,000 for their one time of non licensed use.


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

Celtic said:


> ...when they find the Harley logo or parts/versions thereof in non licensed clothing, etc, they confiscate it right then and there and watch out, because they will/do sue for infringement.


If that's true, it's truly amazing they haven't gotten the crap sued out of them--I'd think it's quite illegal to act as a quasi-legal entity, seizing assets with no injunction. Do they go ahead and grab some cash for damages as well?


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## mmonk (Oct 23, 2011)

ScreenFoo said:


> If that's true, it's truly amazing they haven't gotten the crap sued out of them--I'd think it's quite illegal to act as a quasi-legal entity, seizing assets with no injunction. Do they go ahead and grab some cash for damages as well?


TRUE...and thats why thats not a factual statement. Never would happen. Thats would be theft without a law enforcement officer and a court order. AND I could guarantee, if someone tried that at my biker booth...they would leave missing teeth at a minimum!


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## kal6150 (Jan 22, 2011)

And that is exactly why I had a problem with this"cease and desist" letter in the first place. I don't care how big this CLC is, they have no legal ability to impose damages without a lawsuit and court order. Stick to your guns.

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## Mabuzi (Jul 3, 2007)

Remove the images and apologise and lesson learnt. Don't give lawyers money if you dont have to and so the issue will go away.


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## Kiri Katz Tz (Dec 31, 2010)

My bf sent me this article and I thought I would share it here.
The Law of Anime Part I: Copyright and the Anime Fan - Anime News Network
Now I know it has nothing to do with the OP's situation and more with copyrights on anime but I thought it still gives some pertinent information. My Bf sent it cause I have people at times requesting a 1 of shirt with copyright material on it. I tell them I'm not licensed to, most of them understand. Again I thought some of the info is at least a good reference on copyrights.


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## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

ScreenFoo said:


> If that's true, it's truly amazing they haven't gotten the crap sued out of them--I'd think it's quite illegal to act as a quasi-legal entity, seizing assets with no injunction. Do they go ahead and grab some cash for damages as well?


 

Oh, it's absolutely true. 
I would say that they aren't Harley employees, no, more like club thumpers who freelance. 
Those guys aren't particularly worried about the legalities. 
I know those that this has happened to and umm, they weren't going to go to the police because of the promise, shall we say, of follow-up.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

They wouldn't take anything from me and if they want to follow up I say ok. I always have 2 concealed carry on me at all times. Exceptions would be when I'm in IL as you can't carry there unless your law enforcement and any where my license is illegal. Needles to say to don't go places its not legal except IL. Next month I'll have my Utah permit and that will get me legal in 42 states with my current licenses.

But then again I don't make anything that is copyrighted or copy anyone's work for that matter. I say if you cant make your own the find something else to do. It burns me when I am out and see something I created on a shirt color I never printed it on or I can tell its not my printing. I mostly custom print for others and normally create artwork free with the agreement that particular design is printed only by me. I have had letters sent to a few companies and have been paid all but once. I give pics to attorney and agreement let him handle for 50%.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I do not think that any corporate employees would actually make any seizures.....From what I understand, law enforcement is usually involved....


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## mmonk (Oct 23, 2011)

Celtic said:


> Oh, it's absolutely true.
> I would say that they aren't Harley employees, no, more like club thumpers who freelance.
> Those guys aren't particularly worried about the legalities.
> I know those that this has happened to and umm, they weren't going to go to the police because of the promise, shall we say, of follow-up.


Good thing I AM one of them "club thumper" types...


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## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

mmonk said:


> Good thing I AM one of them "club thumper" types...


 
Are you H A ?
just curious...


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