# Trademark and Copyright Counterfeiting



## DustinR (Dec 7, 2009)

Counterfeiting has been a hot topic with me as of late. When we opened our business store front in Dec 2010 we adopted a zero tolerance for counterfeiting. Since then we have "lost" tens of thousands of dollars to our competition who have happily engaged and encouraged the public to purchase low cost "counterfeit" merchandise. Even though we have had to turn numerous customers away and directly lost business to shops infringing on Trademark and Copyright we feel that in the long run we are all the better for it.

I primary example of a common Trademark infringement that has plagued our area is the use of "MLB" and "NFL" team names and logos by youth sporting associations. On two separate occasions we lost business to local competition that instead of promoting licensed apparel manufactured by such companies as Majestic have pushed cheap and noticeable knockoffs. All the while the consumer suffers with little to no quality control and an overall poor final product.

In our research we have learned a great deal on what is legal and illegal. There are some grey areas, for those I would defer you to your attorney, but as for a general rule of thumb the law is pretty clear.

The below link is to the *Stop Counterfeiting in Manufactured Goods Act of 2006*. I have printed this out and keep them available in our shop if people question or offer exception when we inform them of our policy.

Stop Counterfeiting in Manufactured Goods Act of 2006



To further support he illegality of counterfeiting you can reference the *Lanham Act* (also known as the Trademark Law) which details the US laws governing trademarks.
Lanham (Trademark) Act (15 U.S.C) 

The above being said I am asking for the positions and opinions of my fellow business owners. Being a startup in today’s market is a risk in itself. How have you balanced legality and profitability? Do you have a handout you offer your retail customers when presented with issues of Trademark or Copyright infringement? Would you be willing to share your resources with those of us who wish to operate a legally?


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

DustinR said:


> Counterfeiting has been a hot topic with me as of late.
> I primary example of a common Trademark infringement that has plagued our area is the use of "MLB" and "NFL" team names and logos by youth sporting associations.
> The above being said I am asking for the positions and opinions of my fellow business owners.


STAY MAD AS HELL AND DON'T TAKE IT!

The youth sports thing is rampant around here and all over as well. There are some sponsored affiliate entities but most of them are just out there doing it.

As far as the other shop (I won't say 'competitor'...they're not 'competing'), I'd bust 'em.

I'd snitch...sing like a Canary...squeal like a pig...narc...drop a dime...inform...rat out...call out...fink...tattle...blabber...be a stoolie...whistle blow...glom...

I'd probably have to watch my back "in the yard" or in the shower but it's no different than fencing or buying stolen goods.

You don't do it because it's wrong and neither should they.


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## PrintPlusUK (Mar 24, 2011)

TYGERON said:


> STAY MAD AS HELL AND DON'T TAKE IT!
> 
> The youth sports thing is rampant around here and all over as well. There are some sponsored affiliate entities but most of them are just out there doing it.
> 
> ...


You forgot grass!


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

I forgot one:

I'd tell.

Another violating entity around here is Home Daycares. Mickey, Pooh, Smurfs, Care Bears, Strawberry Shortcake have all been illegally expoited.

It really burns my wife. She recently e-mailed a movie production company because a local business used the promotional graphic from one of their releases.

Flea markets, festivals and outlet malls are also havens for bootleggers and violators. There are a few in my area that get raided repeatedly...like dope houses. A few buys are made and then the bust.

And some people are so smug and blatant. A friend told me of a guy who travels many profession-related conferences selling related wearables depicting tons of well known characters. He apparently hasn't gotten caught
but not for lack of reporting. 

Just a matter off time.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

PrintPlusUK said:


> You forgot grass!


Especially when I'm in the UK!


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

good thread.to whistle blow or not? i think i would as i have high morals but so many people have the attitude of 'lets not get involved'


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

red514 said:


> ...but so many people have the attitude of 'lets not get involved'


You know that's too true!

But what people don't reaslize is that they ARE already involved with what other folk do, on so many different levels. 

Whether it's someone bootlegging shirts or selling drugs, it's messing with _your_ money, your livlihood, your safety...

I'm just waiting to provide info that leads to some criminal's arrest and conviction so I can get the reward money...and give it right back (well, some of it...LOL) to whomever was victimized, just to make a statement. 

DustinR...

Whatcha gonna do?


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## DustinR (Dec 7, 2009)

At this point the only thing that can be done is to inform the local Distric Atorney and the FBI since they are the agencies that are tasked with inforcing these laws. However, the only thing I could tell them at this point is that we are concerned that we have lost business to local shops who are breaking the laws. 

On one had you have the fact that you really dont want to be a rat but on the other you have to feed your family. 

Before we do anything I am going to speak to our local Chamber of Commerce and asked them for guidance. I think however something may already be in the works because we had an agent for the US Treasure come in the store a few weeks back asking some questions and I have had a few job request that were out and out illegal that we turned away. I think there may already be an investigation going on here. I hope there is. Problem solved with no input from us.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

DustinR said:


> On one had you have the fact that *you really dont want to be a rat* but on the other you have to feed your family.


Uh, I WANT to be a rat! (LOL) To me ratting on a thief isn't ratting...

You can also notify NFL and MLB licensing and intellectual properties offices.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

DustinR said:


> ... primary example of a common Trademark infringement that has plagued our area is the use of "MLB" and "NFL" team names and logos by youth sporting associations.


their chartering body should have specs on what they can or cannot do. that would be the first place to go imo. 

you local da should also be able to help. 
if that doesnt work, go to your city council meeting and tell them you want your biz license fee refunded since the city won't enforce laws to protect you as a legit biz.


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## DustinR (Dec 7, 2009)

Well here we go again. Its getting closer to Little League season and we had our first request for trademarked team apparel. The customer requested "College Team Jerseys" and said "but no local teams because they dont want to get caught"... I had a long conversation with them regarding the laws and reasons why they should look at doing it legitimatly. They requested information to take to their board meeting. I guess we will see where this goes.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

I think you should provide trademark/copyright info to the board. Make sure they are clear on the situation so if they _don't_ do anything to remedy the situation then at least they will know they are giving tacit approval to the league to soilicit TM and C violations.

If they _do_ take action you may get the business for being forthright and honest. And when you provide the info, offer to do some original design work for them (at a discounted fee) to avoid trouble. To better make your point, provide some case examples of related infringements to further scare...uh, I mean encourage them to do the right thing.

AND you can also give them information on obtaining permission to use TM and C names and images. There are some youth leagues/teams who are affiliates and are supported in part by professional entities.

Or you may be vilified as a troublemaker and a snitch and run out of town.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

Lets say you succeed in stamping out all the little league teams and day care's from using trademarked images. I doubt your business will be better off because in my experience people simple won’t buy anything if they can’t get what they want. And quite frankly, you won't succeed because the FBI won’t be going after little league teams and day care centers. And generally the entities being “ripped off” don’t get worked up about their IP being used in this manner. So why spend any time stressing over this?


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

The FBI may not go after little league teams or day cares, but you can bet on the fact that the companies who own the IP will! Disney is notorious for going after people as are some other big companies and they don't care how small you are.

On another note, here in my town, I get TONS of requests for bling designs of licensed characters and teams. I had several friends direct me to someone's Facebook page (it's in the name of her business but is a personal "friend" page). I saw TONS of licensed stuff that I know she's not licensed for. I sent her a pm asking her how she obtained the licenses or if she buys transfers from licensed companies. She didn't respond and promptly blocked me from being able to see her page at all! LOL


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Posylane said:


> Lets say you succeed in stamping out all the little league teams and day care's from using trademarked images. I doubt your business will be better off because in my experience people simple won’t buy anything if they can’t get what they want. I've had quite a few requests that resulted in my doing something original and doing the printing after explaining IP issues. Some people really just don't know until being told and are about doing the right thing. And quite frankly, you won't succeed because the FBI won’t be going after little league teams and day care centers. Probably true on the FBI but proerty owners will. And generally the entities being “ripped off” don’t get worked up about their IP being used in this manner. Not true in MANY cases both big and small. And sometimes the concern is so vague and far reaching. Check "Kellogg's Toucan" case and "Chick-fil-A" Eat More Kale complaint. So why spend any time stressing over this? For the very reasons stated by the OP


If I sell TV's and I have customers asking if I sell hot ones (not considering selling hot merch is illegal...right!) and the guy down the street is stealing them and selling them and I lose legit sales from the folk _intent_ on buying the hot mech, I'm going to squeal. Sure the smaller picture may be that it's just one small business in some obscure part of the world, but it matters to that business.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Stephaniiiiiieee! 

There you go. Always dippin' in somebody elses Kool-Aid.



DivineBling said:


> I get TONS of requests for bling designs of licensed characters and teams.


Ahhh...so THAT'S what this door you have "around back" is for, eh?










(Whisper) "The Bling Genie sent me."


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

I just turned down a lady who wanted the Stealers logo embroidered on an item. Someone else will say yes to her, and it does not bother me if it is the business next door. We win on what we do well - price, turn-around time, customer service, ease of doing business.


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