# is the ghetto an overlooked market?



## lousentdreem (Sep 3, 2006)

Maybe it's my OCD flaring up but, I make a point of bookmarking every teeshirt site I find. I see plenty of the same thing done over and over again
and there seem to be niches missing. With exception of joker brand and something with "playa" in the name I havent come accross any sites selling
selling tees to the gangster set or urban kids. Joker's site mens tees section has been emty for a couple months and the playa thing was clothing which had screened phrases on its items. What I see is (since I live in the ghetto) stolen copyrighted designs reproduced at very low quality- and thug wear that has stupid little phrases and images of guns and dollar bills. These low quality tees sell for $10 and I was told sell emtremely well.
There's gotta be a market that demands better quality, art and I'm sure is willing to pay for it.

Who knows of sites selling tees to this crowd that I may have passed up?

There used to be alot of punk rocks tees everywhere- other than band shirts thems selves- I dont see much focused on that crowd. There are 18 year-olds wearing misfits tees -thus ther must be a new generation of buyers.

those goth kids didnt go away is their little niche market just underground
or are they not being represented?

if anyone knows of sites that are specific to any of the above I'd love to take a look.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

lousentdreem said:


> I havent come accross any sites selling
> selling tees to the gangster set or urban kids. What I see is (since I live in the ghetto) stolen copyrighted designs reproduced at very low quality- and thug wear that has stupid little phrases and images of guns and dollar bills. These low quality tees sell for $10 and I was told sell emtremely well.
> There's gotta be a market that demands better quality, art and I'm sure is willing to pay for it.


There is a market for Hip-Hop and Afro-American legends and you are right, not much Legit goods out there.

However, not just in this market sector but in others too, like the punk goth etc. 

Here is whats been happening for the past few years. Teens go to places to make and design their own shirts. They use their imagination, basic letters and transfer designs to create their own one of a kind stuff, this is where the majority of cool hipsters find their place. So not all Teens have fallen into the Knock-off Designs and the Guns.


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## ajizzy (Jul 21, 2006)

It's true, I'm into the urban fashion clothing and the shirts i do are urban style also, and I see tons of shirts all the time and a lot of em look really cheap (low budget) printing on em and a lot of em do have like cartoon charecters on em and i know they do not have permission from companies to use them. I see price ranges from $10.00 -$25.00 and like i said they have (rap artist, cartoons, guns, drug slogans, money..etc.) I have seen just tons of new shirts poppin up all the time because this is rising market that just keep getting bigger and bigger. See im from the hood and i see what people are wearing all the time and that made me think.. i can do this also and make a pretty good profit sellin to local mom & pop shops that carry hip hop and urban clothing and out in the hoods and on the streets. a lot of the time it has to do with the quality of t-shirts you use also..all the PRO-brands like (pro club, pro-5, shakka, saad, hood.etc.) are the ones the people want, because they have really tight necks, tall size cuts to em and are really thick shirts. I have never seen like FROOT OF THE LOOM, HANES, GILDAN etc. i think because there not thick and long enough.(one wash and dry, it's no good anymore) not long enough and the neck isn't the same. previously to getting my heat press i used to go to the swapmeet and buy one of these urban shirts (wich it seems one of the only places you can always find these shirts) i would have someone that does vinyl iron-ons make my shirts but it's not that cheap. to make this long story short, it's a market that is going to keep getting bigger.


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## TshirtKing (Aug 2, 2006)

I personally think that all of the major URBAN fashion trends you see around the globe originates from hoods around the globe. Even the big time fashion houses copy images from the hood for a quick profit. See, I also truly believe that more and more youngsters are feeling the entrepreneur bug and that is good for the industry. They know how to design a shirt from thier talents and bring it to market, and make a nice profit. Fashion has always been a staple in the hood. Fashion does not care if you are broke or rich or what ethnicity you are. You just have some outlandish companies charging crazy prices for their wears. ALL YOU ARE PAYING FOR MOST OF THE TIME IS THE NAME. The hood knows how to improvise and still come out looking tuff. While the majors are asking how do they do that. Name me one big time fashion house that has an office set up in the hood giving back to the youth or community who want to be in the apparel biz. And i mean really giving back. The big timers always steal ideas from the hood everyday. They have the capital to put out a style in a matter of weeks, while turning their backs on the hood where the ideas originated. Who would have known that a 80's inspired girly long sleep shirt would one day be worn by youth from the hood and start up a TALL TEE REVOLUTION AND NEW MARKET. NOW ALL THESE BIG TIME MANUFACTURERS ARE TRYING TO PRODUCE TALL TEES. It was the hood who started that trend and start wearing their tees xxxxxxxtra big and tall. And all of the big timers say it's thugish but still produce them anyway for a profit. THE HOOD IS A STRONG MARKET. THE GHETTO IS NEVER AN OVERLOOKED MARKET. IT IS LOOKED AT HARD EVERYDAY BY THE BIG TIMERS FOR IDEAS. WE JUST HAVE TO CAPITALIZE ON OUR HOOD IDEAS BEFORE THEY DO.

Now as far as bootlegging other desgns to make a quick buck. ASK YOURSELF THIS. YOU START OUT SMALL ONE DAY WITH ONE STYLE AND GROW INTO HUNDREDS OF STYLES A SEASON MAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN REVENUE.
THEN SOMEONE COMES ALONG AND BOOTLEGS YOUR HARDWORK FOR A QUICK BUCK. DO YOU WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO YOU?
FASHION IS ALL ABOUT CREATIVITY, INSPIRATION, AND HARD WORK. THE HARDER YOU THINK DIFFERENT, THE BETTER BRAND IDENTITY YOU WILL HAVE. THE MORE MARKET SHARE YOU GAIN. SO THINK SMARTER, DIFFERENT, AND WORK HARDER THEN EVERBODY ELSE IN THE FASHION GAME. I BET YOU BECOME SUCCESSFUL. 

GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND MUCH SUCCESS

PEACE


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## Robin (Aug 28, 2006)

I realized how over looked it was just a week ago. I couldnt find tall t's fast enough and come up with a price to win the customer. I was undersold by $2 a t!! (Im still new at this) Where I walk, there are 8 basketball courts, and of course my mind was reeling trying to figure out how to sell shirts to these guys!

But something I thought Id mention, I was at a tradeshow in indianapolis, and one of the vendors who was selling heat presses, had t's on display. In the "urban" style....every shirt that had bling, was sparkled up! When I asked the guy about it, he said the fella who makes these shirts goes to a local craft store and picks up the sparkly fabric paint, and paints up all the gold, silver and diamonds. Says the guy sells heaps of these shirts, and thats why he had them on display. Pretty cool.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Robin said:


> In the "urban" style....every shirt that had bling, was sparkled up! When I asked the guy about it, he said the fella who makes these shirts goes to a local craft store and picks up the sparkly fabric paint, and paints up all the gold, silver and diamonds.


Thanks for the info Robin.

You can also find more info about making your own designs with Glitter Inks on this thread: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/showthread.php?t=5895&highlight=GLITTER

freestyle glitter designs, custom screen printed glitter transfers, deco glitter transfers etc...


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Name me one big time fashion house that has an office set up in the hood giving back to the youth or community who want to be in the apparel biz.


Have you really researched this? I think there are a few urban clothing lines that do just that.



> With exception of joker brand and something with "playa" in the name I havent come accross any sites selling tees to the gangster set or urban kids


I think a lot of those t-shirts are sold more OFFLINE rather than online. When I talk to offline shops that sell urban clothing about their customers and "kids" around the neighborhood, not very many of them shop online. I'm sure there are some that do, but I think the online retailers are catering to the people that are spending the money online.

You can definitely make some good money selling urban/ghetto/hip hop themed apparel, but I think a good part of that market are offline shoppers that don't use their credit cards to buy online. 

Sure, there is the upperscale stuff that is selling online. The "urban" brands that are looking to be "high fashion" brands (sean jean, rocawear), but the stuff like you mentioned (stolen copyrighted images with sayings under them, etc) would be shut down much faster if they were sold online. Those big corporations have legal teams whose whole job is to search for people using their trademarks and brands. That stuff just seems to fly "under the radar" much easier in an "offline" market.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> You can definitely make some good money selling urban/ghetto/hip hop themed apparel, but I think a good part of that market are offline shoppers that don't use their credit cards to buy online.
> 
> but the stuff like you mentioned (stolen copyrighted images with sayings under them, etc) would be shut down much faster if they were sold online. Those big corporations have legal teams whose whole job is to search for people using their trademarks and brands. That stuff just seems to fly "under the radar" much easier in an "offline" market.


What you talking about Rod ?  

http://www.tbible.com/BLACK-400.jpg

....like i said before. The kids on the street in the hood make their own t-shirts for the most part. The knock-offs are a small percentage. 
also, this is where stylelists for the celebs get their stuff to dress the stars from, the streets and from the kids. Just like Jully. See the slogan on her shirt ? "Give Thanks". She does give back to the hood in many ways.... this is how it should be. 

And by the way, almost everybody has a computer our days, and the ones that dont its because peeps dont give back to the hood like they should.  

as for credit cards, how do expect someone who hardly makes a dollar to eat to own a credit card ? 

There is a store here in town that on "Boxing Day" (famous Canadian Shopping Day) that sells all the shirts in their store on that day for a Cent/Ea. ...so that on that day everyone in the hood can have a cool new shirt.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> What you talking about Rod ?
> 
> http://www.tbible.com/BLACK-400.jpg


I was following up on the discussion from the original poster:



> What I see is (since I live in the ghetto) stolen copyrighted designs reproduced at very low quality- and thug wear that has stupid little phrases and images of guns and dollar bills. These low quality tees sell for $10 and I was told sell emtremely well.


The image you linked to doesn't relate to that at all?



> the kids on the street in the hood make their own t-shirts for the most part. The knock-offs are a small percentage.


Depends on which kids and which hoods. Not all kids go in and make their own t-shirts. It's not very common here in the Sacramento areas.



> And by the way, almost everybody has a computer our days,


Not true for some of the lower income urban areas. 



> and the ones that dont its because peeps dont give back to the hood like they should





> as for credit cards, how do expect someone who hardly makes a dollar to eat to own a credit card ?


That's a discussion for a whole different forum, but please don't make assumptions about who gives back and how much and to which hoods.

My point is the reality is that there is a segment that doesn't shop online for many reasons, which is why you probably don't see a lot of designs online targeted for that market.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> The image you linked to doesn't relate to that at all?
> 
> Depends on which kids and which hoods. Not all kids go in and make their own t-shirts. It's not very common here in the Sacramento areas.


Why Not ??? 

the picture below shows a shirt that was made the same way kids make their shirts at a Custom T-Shirt Store here in Toronto Canada, in a poor hood. It does not mean the kids here have a poor creativity level though. In fact, i think they are the real designers of this world. They create from nothing about their way of life and not from fiction. If you want to see the coolest fresh t-shirt art ideas, go to the streets that make do with nothing and see how they use their creativity to dress themselfs. That is art/fashion, not a degree with the lastest mac.

Are there not custom t-shirt stores where you at that let kids come in and make their own shirts ? thats terrible.  

http://www.tbible.com/BLACK-400.jpg


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Why Not ???


I couldn't tell you. Not all kids want to make their own t-shirts, so it could be that the people considering that business in the area decided that the market didn't fit the demand.



> If you want to see the coolest fresh t-shirt art ideas, go to the streets that make do with nothing and see how they use their creativity to dress themselfs. That is art/fashion, not a degree with the lastest mac.


Yes, that is ONE way to see fresh art/ideas, but by no means the ONLY way.

I would discount art/fashion done by those with a degree and the latest mac just because they aren't from the ghetto.

Again, it's no good to make these overgeneralizations of one side or the other. They both have merit.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I would discount art/fashion done by those with a degree and the latest mac just because they aren't from the ghetto.


unless you are doing digital type art design experimental t-shirts, a computer is just a tool and a degree is a paper on the wall. This alone does not make you an original trend set. 

*is the ghetto an overlooked market?*

*Yes.*

*Print up some affordable legit Ali, 2 pac, Marley shirts and they will sell anywhere. In the Ghetto or NO Ghetto.  *

*Now where can I find such at affordable prices ? does even wal-mark have these on sale for $ 3.95 ?*


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> unless you are doing digital type art design experimental t-shirts, a computer is just a tool and a degree is a paper on the wall. This alone does not make you an original trend set.


I never said that a degree alone or a mac alone will make you a trendsetter.

However, your post seemed to suggest that you *can't* create art/fashion with a degree and the latest mac, that it *only* came from the streets.



t-bot said:


> f you want to see the coolest fresh t-shirt art ideas, go to the streets that make do with nothing and see how they use their creativity to dress themselfs.That is art/fashion, not a degree with the lastest mac





> is the ghetto an overlooked market?


Thanks for bringing it back to the topic 

Is the ghetto an *overlooked* market online? I don't think so. 

I think in the offline world the "ghetto" market is heavily tapped. Online, I don't know if it would have the same success.



> Print up some affordable legit Ali, 2 pac, Marley shirts and they will sell anywhere. In the Ghetto or NO Ghetto


As long as they are officially licensed 

But I don't think affordable urban icon shirts are universal. They wouldn't sell "anywhere" (some people don't like tupac or bob marley), but an affordable shirt printed with designs that match the target market will obviously be a good seller.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> However, your post seemed to suggest that you *can't* create art/fashion with a degree and the latest mac, *that it only came from the streets*.
> 
> But I don't think affordable urban icon shirts are universal. They wouldn't sell "anywhere" (some people don't like tupac or *bob marley*).


well, here we are talking about the street in its contex, are we not ? 
What Im saying is that a degree and a Mac alone will not make you an original trend set. Lets not get confused Rodney.

just like there is a street in London where a few Big Retail Chain store buyers go to get a feel for what they will be making and stocking their stores with.

Who does not like Bob Marley ?  .... come on.  

"is this love, is this love....that im feeling"


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> well, here we are talking about the street in its contex, are we not ?
> *What Im saying is that a degree and a Mac alone will not make you an original trend set.* Lets not get confused Rodney.


I was confused because that's not what you said originally  Thanks for the clarification.



> Who does not like Bob Marley ?


I'm sure there are lots of people in the world that don't care for Bob Marly or reggae music in general. I don't know of any personally, but I'm sure they are out there


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I'm sure there are lots of people in the world that don't care for Bob Marly or reggae music in general. I don't know of any personally, but I'm sure they are out there


Just to prove Rodney's point, I, for one, am not so fussed on Marley or reggae. Of course, I have several Marley records/CDs, but rarely listen to them these days. Gotten tired of them - simple as that. (Not so, much of my favourite rock from the 60s, which has stood a lifetime of listening without palling - eg: Love, Standells, Doors, early Neil Young, Stooges...but I'm lurching off track.)

To be completely honest, I think reggae is a performance genre above all. Great to get that thump and buzz in the chest from a massively amped bass, and the space in the music works brilliantly live and loud. Even on state of the art hifi, the recorded reggae experience doesn't get close.

As for Marley Tshirts - about as passe as it gets as far as I'm concerned (and I am anti-fashion).


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

BASICALLY ONLY IF YOU OVERLOOK IT!!!! If you love it...sell it!!!!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Ross, but you did not say you DID NOT like Marley.  

Just like i dont listen to the Viletones much today (a local punk band i hung out with back in the day). 
But when i think of the LIVE dates i was at.... I still LIKE the Viletones.  

or even The Joints (an 80's band).


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

How about Black Slacks or I got Drugs in My Pockets? Marley and the local punk scene are a bit far removed like a t-shirt and Gucci!!!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> How about I got Drugs in My Pockets? !!


oh yes, the Monks. 

David, i do live a secret rock life you know.


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## zagadka (Jul 6, 2006)

^ maybe not as far as you may think...it's kind of a generalization, but they both deal with social issues and trying to change them.


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## lousentdreem (Sep 3, 2006)

whoa...look how easy it is to get off topic and have everyone on the defensive. Let's keep it light kids. If someone chooses to make a statement 
and be wrong we'll all live through it. No harm done.

So what do we think these urban tees have in the way of standard atributes?

Are they all long like nightshirts? 

If you're not screening a pic of Tupac what are you gonna put on there that will turn a head?

glitter? bling? cartoon gangsters? what about latin specific themes?

I see a whole lotta scarface on everything from tees to embroidered leather jackets.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

lousentdreem said:


> If you're not screening a pic of Tupac what are you gonna put on there that will turn a head?


how about.....  

http://fashionfreakers.com/celebs.html

http://www.tbible.com/NOT-A-RAPPER.jpg


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

The Monks - now there's an obscure 60s garage band worth chasing up.


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## TshirtKing (Aug 2, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Have you really researched this? I think there are a few urban clothing lines that do just that.




Rod,
I know that there are urban fashion labels that give back to the community.
The point that i'm making is that the big labels (i.e. guess, tommy, polo, levis etc) do not contribute much to nothing to the hood. These labels were not producing baggy jeans and hip clothing in the mid 80's to early 90's. They did not believe in hip fashion then. They got that from the urban labels willie wear, cross colours, karl kani , fubu, and phat farm. Find me a pair of baggy jeans that's hip inspired from one of these mass labels in the 80's and label me wrong. it was the ideas of these early urban labels knowing what the urban youth were looking for in fashion. Then when the big brands started losing market share to the hip youth culture and to fubu , phat and the other guys, only then they started to add hip clothing to their matrix. most of these big brands can care less about the hood, it's all about money to them. They have been copying from the urban labels for the past 15 years. And they know they have to in order to stay in the game with the hip customers. "Urban fashion is inspired from the hood by the hood" (thats my tag line ) not from tommy, polo, guess or none of these high end labels. "To the hood, keep the fashion faith alive baby".


peace


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

TshirtKing said:


> Rodney said:
> 
> 
> > Have you really researched this? I think there are a few urban clothing lines that do just that.
> ...


Guess, Tommy, Polo etc dont make surfwear either and thats ok.
Grunge rock and fashion...was that an urban look?
Bob Marley...dont really consider him in the hood.....more rasta island style.
Proffesional athletes...some give back and some run as far away as they can.
Hip customers dont just come from the hood...some wouldnt buy a pair of baggy pants.
If all the big name brands had made ghetto clothing in the 80"s...wouldnt that kill those individuals that had found that niche market and are scratching out an urban brand.
Is tagging art or an expensive eyesore?
How about to the folks that own the building and are trying to do business in the hood?
Do those giants in the sneaker world give back to the ghetto...the true ghetto where the shoes are made for pennies?
Are those urban brands inexpensive enough for the guy with only a buck for food?

Just some ramblings to ponder...no harm no foul.


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## mrmagic2713 (Jan 30, 2006)

wow interesting topic! my take on this is that when you say "ghetto market' OR "urban market" being overlooked online, you have to also remember to be VERY specific in terms of the demographics, AND sub-demographics of this unigue marketplace.( I personally think that many of the corporate decision makers fail to understand this concept, and as a result they leave alot of money on the table for young entrepeneurs who do!) now as far as hip-hop inspired t-shirts, and such online, the facts are simple. this is predominatly a youth driven urban market. and as such these kids have a sense of urgency when they want to buy a given t-shirt. so if you have numerous stores right in the "hood" selling this stuff, then why would they want to go online, and then wait for a shirt to be shipped? thats probably the main reason that online sales of this type are not as well represented as one would think. however if you check out "targetmarketing" magazine (by the way this is a company that does complete in-depth research on consumer buying patterns of blacks latinos and asains, and their statistics have been well respected in the marketing feild for years) they say that the fastest growing segment of online purchases come from the "urban ghetto" community. it is well into the billion dollar mark already! so maybe the hip-hop kids are not doing alot of t-shirt buying online, but i would have to beleive that the ADULT URBAN DEMOGRAPHIC ARE! so i would suggest that to reach this market, one could have cool shirts catered to a more adult theme, and then market them to the urban online segment that is already heavily into online buying. remember, just becuase folks live in the "HOOD" it does not mean that they only want to see hip-hop, bling-bling shirts! there is more dimension to the hood than that. peace!


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

I wish I had of saw this post sooner. Growing up in the hood has helped me with my idea. It's all urban and no whitewash. Real as we like it in the streets with out the guns, lol. Like we always say "it's all good in the hood".


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

Now to put my 2cent in. Big companies made baggy jeans cause we wore them like that. We would buy them 2 or 3 sizes big. Now look, go into any mall or department store and you will see baggy jeans. 

I am not going to imply that they are stilling from the streets, but urban folks started the big rims, caddy comes with 20" rims now. Big white tee, now they sell them in stores. Hood reps. Now I saw a cap that reped a new york hood. These are things we have been doing for years and when a large company see that it will sale, that get their degree having fashion department to make the latest trend and they mass produce it.

I think that is what is try'n to be said here. If you have any family that live in what would be an urban area, ask them and see what they tell you. By the time you see something on tv, whether it is on a video, tv show or a movie on cable or not, it has been in the streets for over a year. 

This is not to imply everything in the fashion or any other indusrty, but remember we where blinging, flawson, and get'n our shine on way before you ever heard it in a rap record or tv show.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Buechee said:


> Now to put my 2cent in. Big companies made baggy jeans cause we wore them like that. We would buy them 2 or 3 sizes big. Now look, go into any mall or department store and you will see baggy jeans.


Exactly!!! The clothes were baggy because the were worn that way not because they were made that way. Yes and mall has em now but they are still purchased oversized. Good point Buchee!

I also think there is a difference between urban, urban style and Ghetto.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Buechee said:


> Now to put my 2cent in. Big companies made baggy jeans cause we wore them like that. We would buy them 2 or 3 sizes big. Now look, go into any mall or department store and you will see baggy jeans.
> 
> I am not going to imply that they are stilling from the streets, but urban folks started the big rims, caddy comes with 20" rims now. Big white tee, now they sell them in stores. Hood reps. Now I saw a cap that reped a new york hood. These are things we have been doing for years and when a large company see that it will sale, that get their degree having fashion department to make the latest trend and they mass produce it.
> 
> ...


god bless. 
that is one ***** post ....lyrical like.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> These labels were not producing baggy jeans and hip clothing in the mid 80's to early 90's. They did not believe in hip fashion then. They got that from the urban labels willie wear, cross colours, karl kani , fubu, and phat farm. Find me a pair of baggy jeans that's hip inspired from one of these mass labels in the 80's and label me wrong. it was the ideas of these early urban labels knowing what the urban youth were looking for in fashion. Then when the big brands started losing market share to the hip youth culture and to fubu , phat and the other guys, only then they started to add hip clothing to their matrix. most of these big brands can care less about the hood, it's all about money to them. They have been copying from the urban labels for the past 15 years.


Taking ideas from other fashion genres is not exclusive to polo/guess/tommy. Most fashion brands do it when they see a trend is selling.

Flip the script a bit and look at the "urban" brands like rocawear/sean jean/phat farm and see how they are "copying" pink polos, button up shirts, argyle sweaters from the "other" brands.

It happens on both sides  That's called business and following the money. Big brands do it, smaller brands do it. Urban brands do it. Non urban brands do it.

While it would be nice if every company gave back to all the communities that buy their clothing, that's just not reality. However, I bet you will find that a lot of the major brands (polo/tommy/fubu/rocawear) giving back to a community *somewhere*. Let's not knock them for where they decide to be charitable. Every company makes a choice of where to give back and excludes some other communities when they make that choice.



> By the time you see something on tv, whether it is on a video, tv show or a movie on cable or not, it has been in the streets for over a year.
> 
> This is not to imply everything in the fashion or any other indusrty, but remember we where blinging, flawson, and get'n our shine on way before you ever heard it in a rap record or tv show.


I have no doubt that's true. I've seen it time and time again 

Big borrows from smaller trends all the time. It's not exclusive to the fashion world.

Take rap slang for instance. You can hear an E-40 (notorious for making up new slangology ) track and then a year later hear "bigger" rappers using the same slang in their songs.


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## TshirtKing (Aug 2, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Taking ideas from other fashion genres is not exclusive to polo/guess/tommy. Most fashion brands do it when they see a trend is selling.
> 
> Flip the script a bit and look at the "urban" brands like rocawear/sean jean/phat farm and see how they are "copying" pink polos, button up shirts, argyle sweaters from the "other" brands.
> 
> ...


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## TshirtKing (Aug 2, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Guess, Tommy, Polo etc dont make surfwear either and thats ok.
> Grunge rock and fashion...was that an urban look?
> Bob Marley...dont really consider him in the hood.....more rasta island style.
> Proffesional athletes...some give back and some run as far away as they can.
> ...


Moto,

Differnet strokes for different markets. Every market influences every other market. Fashion = Urban, Grunge, Rock, Rasta, Punk, Surf, or whatever inspires the designer(s) for that market. And I never said that hip customers just come from of the hood, and every hipster wears baggy jeans. Fashion has always been about self expression, no matter where you come from. And it was not meant to be for the bigger brands in the 80's to develope baggier jeans when it started to become popular in urban fashion. most of those companies did not keep thier eyes in ears in the hood. That's why the rise of urban labels were so successful, focusing on images from the hood by the hood. The hood was the niche. 
I'm a urban kid influenced by hip hop. One of the four elements of hip hop is graffiti art ( what you called tagging). and yes to me it is art. how do you think Marc ecko got his start and inspiration for fashion?
And to the folks that own the buildings in the hood, its thiers they can do whatever they want with it. Just be reasonable with everyone.
And i dont think that NIKE cares to much about third world sweat shop workers producing thier shoes for .50 per week. Their making to much money. Maybe the U.S. GOV should focus on keeping a high percentage of garment based jobs here in the states and push for these american based apparel companies to treat third world producers with integrity like humans should be treated.
And to the guy with only a buck for food. He should not be thinking about purchasing urban clothing anyway. Food before fashion

peace 

no harm no foul


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Buechee said:


> I think that is what is try'n to be said here. If you have any family that live in what would be an urban area, ask them and see what they tell you. By the time you see something on tv, whether it is on a video, tv show or a movie on cable or not, it has been in the streets for over a year.


Sure, but the point is _so what?_ It's not theft when a company gives in to market demand. Fashion owes a debt here and there to "the hood", but when you get right down to it, not many.

It's a cyclical relationship anyway. Do you think "the hood" can claim it came up with bling? It was just a tasteless expression of the nouveau riche that became a parody of rich excess. Most conspicuous hip hop culture (i.e. what the successful artists are doing, and getting imitated from there) is reliving their take on the twenties of rich white America. The occasional rich old man gets angry about it, and much hilarity ensues (like the recent blowup with Cristal). But when you get right down to it... who cares? This is nothing new, and it's not restricted to the rich or the poor.

The fact that people think they have ownership over an idea they didn't even come up with based on geographical (or socioeconomic) proximity is absurd.

Again, this goes in both directions. Rich white culture steals from poor black culture. Rich black culture steals from rich white culture. Poor white culture steals from rich black culture. It all goes around and around.



TshirtKing said:


> Name me one big time fashion house that has an office set up in the hood giving back to the youth or community who want to be in the apparel biz.


Name me one big time fashion house that gets its ideas from the hood. I must have missed the latest Valentino collection with the low slung baggy pants and oversized t-shirts. Did Versace put out a series of bandanas and Nike knockoffs when I wasn't looking?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

TshirtKing said:


> One of the four elements of hip hop is graffiti art ( what you called tagging).


I wouldn't make that assumption - maybe he meant tagging when he said tagging. There's a huge difference between tagging and graff.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Solmu said:


> I wouldn't make that assumption - maybe he meant tagging when he said tagging. There's a huge difference between tagging and graff.


The taggers mainly being those who haven't the artistic skill to graffiti. I wish the damn taggers would just do stencil art graffiti instead.....at least it looks nice.


Damn you STANLEY for tagging my house!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

TshirtKing said:


> And to the guy with only a buck for food. He should not be thinking about purchasing urban clothing anyway. Food before fashion.


but it was this guy with NO money to buy fashion that created this type fashion.

This guy and some others, went to the street with a beat box telling stories with words and with a NEW dance attached. Peeps would walk by and toss a few cents in the bucket......back in the day. 

So now a new form of music, lyrics (that are sort of another language all together), DANCE and YES, fashion was born. Those are the facts.

Another example that Fashion starts from the Kids and the Streets and not from a degree with a new mac.


Here in Toronto Canada, it took years and numerous applications with thousands of signatures to get an R&B, Hip-Hop radio station on the Airwaves. But it did happen, finally the regulating forces realized that there is more to it then meets the eye.

For this reason, places like THA SPOT, a dance center that teaches kids about Dance (Hip-Hop included) and its origins is key.

*Even Dancing with the Stars TV Show has a Hip-Hop dance category.* 
(the guy that was broke back then dancing like this, he's probally still broke...you know... )

*Like Peter Leach said:*

*"Jazz came up the Mississippi and not down the Express way from Seneca College"*

*What the street is making today will be the t-shirt fashion of the future. That I believe 100%.*


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I also think there is a difference between urban, urban style and Ghetto.


There is. Most people tend to over look that point and put them all in one big group.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

TshirtKing said:


> Moto,
> 
> Differnet strokes for different markets. Every market influences every other market. Fashion = Urban, Grunge, Rock, Rasta, Punk, Surf, or whatever inspires the designer(s) for that market. And I never said that hip customers just come from of the hood, and every hipster wears baggy jeans. Fashion has always been about self expression, no matter where you come from. And it was not meant to be for the bigger brands in the 80's to develope baggier jeans when it started to become popular in urban fashion. most of those companies did not keep thier eyes in ears in the hood. That's why the rise of urban labels were so successful, focusing on images from the hood by the hood. The hood was the niche.
> I'm a urban kid influenced by hip hop. One of the four elements of hip hop is graffiti art ( what you called tagging). and yes to me it is art. how do you think Marc ecko got his start and inspiration for fashion?
> ...


Now that I done made my way to the 4th pg. 

I agree. I grow up off hip hop as well, not just rap. So til this day I love to see graffiti, it is a true art. I plan to make and urban line that I want to direct to a market that would wear it, but there is only like one or two major lines to compete with.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

Solmu said:


> Sure, but the point is _so what?_ It's not theft when a company gives in to market demand. Fashion owes a debt here and there to "the hood", but when you get right down to it, not many.
> 
> It's a cyclical relationship anyway. Do you think "the hood" can claim it came up with bling? It was just a tasteless expression of the nouveau riche that became a parody of rich excess. Most conspicuous hip hop culture (i.e. what the successful artists are doing, and getting imitated from there) is reliving their take on the twenties of rich white America. The occasional rich old man gets angry about it, and much hilarity ensues (like the recent blowup with Cristal). But when you get right down to it... who cares? This is nothing new, and it's not restricted to the rich or the poor.
> 
> ...


I never said it was theft. I don't see anything wrong with a major line making clothing based on a urban trend. How can I get made for some one us making $$. I plan to do the same. I may be from the so called hood, but I plan to make $$ off urban trends as well.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

monkeylantern said:


> The taggers mainly being those who haven't the artistic skill to graffiti. I wish the damn taggers would just do stencil art graffiti instead.....at least it looks nice.
> 
> 
> Damn you STANLEY for tagging my house!


Hey, I think some tags look great. You just got to have a nice *** tag.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I think art, fashion, music, style etc all borrow from eachother whether past or present. I also believe form follows function in design although the baggy pants idea is fairly disfunctional especially within the skater culture. Everyone is and should be proud of their heritage. I think there is a huge difference between Ghetto and Urban fashion style. T-Bot I think is trying to make that point drawing from poor children in the hood and how they create their style. A style worlds apart from the DUB events our group participates in. Again these are just my panderings no harm no foul. Is the urban market overlooked? I hardly think so...Is the Ghetto market overlooked...probably. Stereotypes although many times falling right on the button sometimes are so far from the tree. I grew up in Houston where everyone is a cowboy or in the oil business or just a *******. I am so far removed from those actual stereotypes its frustrating at times but to an actual cowboy....its a sense of pride. I come from a design background and did some time in So. Cal in the art and gallery business. I think art like music and style is just an act of self expression. All borrow heavily from eachother but can be traced back to some roots foundation. That foundation can be traced back to influences of the past and so on and so on. Culture builds upon itself and its past right down to the first cave paintings on a wall. Architecture is the same way. I like the Hudson River school and French Impr. I also love great airbrush work and real funky architecture. Tagging is urban blight and an expense I would rather not have pay to correct. That money could be used for schools, parks,shelters etc. Graffitti is self expression but I dont want it on my building without asking for it. Go put it on a canvas or a medium that you can actually turn a buck with. Everyone on this post made so great points and some silly assumptions me included but its all good...just one ******* to another.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Overlooked by whom?

By Versace?! Yeah.

That’s about it!

I don’t see how anyone can make the argument that the “ghetto” is being overlooked, then turn right around and say that the big boys copy the ghetto fashions. The fact that they actually pay attention to what’s going on, see that there is money to be made on fashion trends that originate in the “hood”, then produce those trends themselves for profit, proves that the hood isn’t being overlooked.

If it were being overlooked, it would not be copied.

I think it’s irrelevant as to where fashion trends originate. All of the companies are in business for 1 main purpose…to make money! I don’t care if it’s the big urban companies (Roca Wear, Sean Jean, Phat Farm) or others (Tommy, Polo, etc.) they all are in it for the money. None of them are charitable organizations! They are FOR PROFIT, and the people at the top of those companies want to stay at the top, and make big money. Fashion happens to be the means to that end for them.

“Giving back” is over-hyped. When you find a company doing some so-called “giving back”, ask them if they claim the tax deduction! If they are just giving something to away to keep from giving the same thing to the government, is that really giving? Are they really giving back if they aren’t sacrificing something?

In the age of “the dollar is king” all of the fashion companies, big or small, go where the money is. Is there money in the hood? Yep. Who’s trying to make money from people in the hood? Everybody!

Plain and simple. It doesn’t matter where the trends originate, if there is money to be made on them, EVERYBODY will do EVERYTHING they can to make that money.

Like it was stated previously, the urban wear companies are now making argyle sweaters! Izod polos! Why?
Because there’s money to be made! 

P.S.
On another note, a word to the wise: I will tell you guys some good advice a wise, primate carrying a nice lamp once told me many moons ago



monkeylantern said:


> learn to love the paragraph


You guys gotta break that stuff up! It’s hard to read!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Yep...breaking it up...my fault.


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## TshirtKing (Aug 2, 2006)

To everybody in this discussion, we all have wonderful points and views. No matter what ethnicity, art does not discriminate on talent and intelligence. That's the power of ART AND FASHION. You dream it, you design it, you market it, and hopefully you sell it, lots of it. 
The TSHIRT FORUMS has an excellent educational experience for all walks of life. That is the power that the members have. I learned some good points from all of you guys.
Lets keep it up.
Much respect due to all of you ladies and gentlemen

peace


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> Overlooked by whom?
> 
> By Versace?! Yeah.
> 
> ...


My man, well put. 

This is a true statement and It was made early in this post. But I think Swing just made it more clear. The dollar is King and we are all in this biz for it.


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## Tgraphics (Aug 27, 2006)

yeah, inspiration come from everywhere, from the sidewalk to the catwalk and back to the street. It's how you turn that inspiration into a money making concern that's all important. To give it back you've got to earn it first.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

ghet‧to  /ˈgɛtoʊ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[get-oh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation 

–noun, plural -tos, -toes. 1. a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships. 

Is the Ghetto an overlooked market?
Here is Rocawears header under the mens category...is that ghetto?
Are they selling to the ghetto market?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

"often as a result of social or *economic restrictions*, pressures, or hardships."

Is that an overlooked market? 

There's a difference between being overlooked and being ignored.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> ghet‧to  /ˈgɛtoʊ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[get-oh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
> 
> –noun, plural -tos, -toes. 1. a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.
> 
> ...


I know what a ghetto is. I was born in the projects.  

Nope, it's not the ghetto. Does that mean it's not FOR the ghetto? NOPE!

Does this pic appeal to people in the ghetto? ABSOLUTELY!

What makes you think that a pic showing Jay-Z living his luxurious lifestyle isn't being marketed to people with less?

You think he's marketing to the super rich, like him? I doubt it. You probably won't see too many people worth hundreds of millions rockin' some Roca Wear!

It's meant to give those in the ghetto an escape from the ghetto lifestyle. Something to achieve.

"Wear Roca Wear and you can "feel" like this" is kind of what that's saying. 
Regardless of what's in the picture, the clothes are those worn by people in the ghetto. Therefore, being sold to the same.

It could also serve a dual purpose. They could also be saying, "you don't have to just be from the ghetto to wear Roca Wear."


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## lousentdreem (Sep 3, 2006)

this has been a hell of a lively debate with many points offered. All opinions seemed sound and based on fact. However, since we find ourselves in the "t-shirt forums" I was specifically asking the question about graphic t-shirts alone. There looks to niche in urban t-shirts that hasnt been fully exploited.
there are some music-related high quality tees and some graphic knock-offs
but, not too many (that I've seen) tees focused on the graphic hip hop, urban, ganster set, with ethnic acknowledments.

for example: there are a couple latin (mexican) lowrider car designs I've seen.
A couple with Incan and aztec motifs.

some hip hop-ish gangster cartoon characters with the standard reference to weed and chicks somewhere within.

the occasional "black pride" or "remember your history" tee.

but nothing sophisticated and geared to all as a whole. 

oddly enough though Puerto Ricans seem to to be able to incorporate their 
flag on every form of media available to the free world. Shirts, hats, bumper stickers, fuzzy dice, license plates, air fresheners, disposable lighters, and my god you see them everywhere. They are quite nationalistic and proud to 
say the very least.

I'm figuring if you can produce something ghetto oriented that provides something close to that nationalistic furvor while including all of the ghetto's population it'll be a phat (cool wordplay huh?) cash cow. 

Now the hard part is creating the idea (artwork) and then taking it to the masses over and over again for refinement before you produce it.

time consuming


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

You may have joined after I took the url out of my signature.

Check my homepage. What you speak of, is exactly what I have done! 

And yes, very time-consuming.

Send me a PM if you would like to see some examples.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

Can't say I can see away for that to be done, but I have seen the latest in hood wear and I plan to do the same with a niche that is still in it's starting stage.

I feel that it would be hard cause you don't have a ghetto flag to put on things. We don't have a mascot. We have people that we look up to and that is what you find on shirts. In the early 90's when we first went to war with Iraq, you had a lot of positive rap out. You also had a lot of Malcolm X shirts as well. Then the Tupac shirts and next will be a big *** Jay Z shirt, who knows. My point is that we make shirts based on what we see and live. If we feel like "f#$k da police", you'll see it on a shirt with some cartoon flip'n da finger.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Trust me.

Conquer is next!


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## lousentdreem (Sep 3, 2006)

hmmmmmm.....ghetto flag? hhhhmmmmmmm?


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## lousentdreem (Sep 3, 2006)

what would a flag of the ghetto look like?

I think I wanna play with the concept.


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

lousentdreem said:


> what would a flag of the ghetto look like?
> 
> I think I wanna play with the concept.


Maybe we should come up with a national ghetto flag and see if it catches on.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Buechee said:


> I have a uncle that lives in Nashville. Maybe I'll look you up when/if I come that way.


You do that.

If you're coming soon let me know. Young Buck is having a Platinum Party in a couple of weeks, and I can get you on the VIP list.

It's the official launch of G-Unit South Records. 50 is supposed to be there, too, along with the rest of G-Unit.

The comedian that wears my stuff (JUST WILL) is performing at the party!

There are going to be some national hip hop mags there, as well, so maybe I can get a little bit of exposure!

http://www.youngbucklive.com/


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> you on the VIP list.
> 
> It's the official launch of G-Unit South Records. 50 is supposed to be there, too, along with the rest of G-Unit.
> 
> ...


Thats great Greg.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

T-BOT said:


> Thats great Greg.


Yeah, it's pretty cool. I've been excited about it since Will (the Comedian) told me about it a few weeks ago.

There hasn't even been an "official" announcement, yet (oops!).

That website I linked to just went up a day or 2 ago.

There are going to be people there from everywhere, so I plan on doing some MAJOR networking!


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> Yeah, it's pretty cool. I've been excited about it since Will (the Comedian) told me about it a few weeks ago.
> 
> There hasn't even been an "official" announcement, yet (oops!).
> 
> ...


I hope it does good for you. That's cool to be able to make moves like that.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Good luck Greg!!! You have a refreshing business spirit and I enjoy the chat.


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## lousentdreem (Sep 3, 2006)

this is a higher quality example of what I've seen locally:

http://www.animationshops.com/product_details.asp?catid=85&prodid=2670


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

I would have to take some pics of what I see here in my city.


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## JelaniB (Sep 24, 2006)

HaHAHAHA...I hope I don't offend anyone with this statement, but I have looked at transfers and shirts on different sites...and I see the dumb cartoons with played out phrases like "you go girl" and "bling Bling" and "hustla" and I think to myself - - - 
some older white person who has no idea is trying to make a quick buck in an area that he know's NOTHING about. trying is not a bad thing. Making money off of a demographic that's not your own is how business is and always has been done. But some of the shirts are ridiculous. Really. The "hood" (haha) is a huge market. Regardless of income, people in poor areas will always find a way to look good. This I know. I have no answers other than...kill the corney phrases that were in rap songs 8 years ago. Do a little more research.


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## JelaniB (Sep 24, 2006)

lousentdreem said:


> this is a higher quality example of what I've seen locally:
> 
> http://www.animationshops.com/product_details.asp?catid=85&prodid=2670


the shirts with big images are really hot nowadays


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## Buechee (Dec 22, 2005)

almost like the bigger, the better.


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