# Is it worth owning digitizing software????



## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

I am looking at adding embroidery to our shop and have been trying to read up on digitizing and embroidery pricing. My plan is to start small with a one or two head used/certified machine, farm out my digitizing and see how things go. 

My question is has anyone established a threshold on when it pays or becomes a necessity to do your own digitizing? Will your customer wait for a week or more while someone is digitizing your image? I can see a lot of our customers getting pretty restless if I tell them I think I can get their order done in a couple weeks or so.

I realize that programs run from pocket change to thousands of dollars but if you could pick a program to use as a start up what would your choice be?


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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll be mocked here but I can't afford the expensive software. I use embird. I've never had a problem or lacked something to get the job done. Maybe the hugely expensive programs do a lot more, but I bet it's not THAT much more. 

As far as the question of do you need it? I say yes, but only if you are going to practice with it to become good. A LOT of embroidery stuff is just putting simple names (usually in CURLZ  YUK) on junk. Start by learning how to do the names and then grow into making objects.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

IMO it was worth getting a program that allows me to create text using a variety of fonts, some shapes, some special effects, and for editing and resizing. Basically I can satisfy most customers who come to me and wants me to create something simple for their business or name.

However I didn't think it was worth spending a fortune on software ( I bought PE design 8) nor do I have the inclination to try and master reproducing specific or detailed customer logo's. In those cases I pay a professional digitiser to create the file for me. By doing so I can offer the best product for my customer, and I can save in two ways. I save time and hassle on that individual job, and I also save the expense and overall time by not buying expensive software and putting in the time required to learn how to master it.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks for the input. It seems to make sense to be able to digitize the smaller and more simple jobs and hire someone to do the very large and complex images. Do you have a guesstimate on the percentage of jobs you can digitize in house compared to images you send out? Do you see that percentage changing in one direction or the other?

Thanks again.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

I think that would be entirely based on who you target as customers.


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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

I digitize everything. After about 2 months of really using the program you should be able to get the hang of it enough. Most items for digitizing aren't that hard. The good part is that as you digitize you can also stitch out to see where you went wrong and fix it right away.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

I started digitizing in 1995 and own 4 different digitizing programs. To answer your question, yes you need digitizing software, but more important, you need to learn to digitize.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

In regard to Sick Puppy's post seeing that you have 4 different digitizing programs one would conclude you outgrew the first three? Bought them and they were not exactly what you wanted so you moved on? 

I would like to find a program that I can start with as a novice but can grow with my skill set so I don't have to relearn everything when I move up a level.

Any recommendations????


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## philipfirth83 (Aug 17, 2012)

3Wide said:


> In regard to Sick Puppy's post seeing that you have 4 different digitizing programs one would conclude you outgrew the first three? Bought them and they were not exactly what you wanted so you moved on?
> 
> I would like to find a program that I can start with as a novice but can grow with my skill set so I don't have to relearn everything when I move up a level.
> 
> Any recommendations????


I would recommend Wilcom ES software. Doesn't come cheap but is the best in the industry. 

It comes in different levels, so the software grows with you.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

We started in embroidery in 1995 as well. I've had three different digitizing packages over the years. The first was absolute garbage. The second was better but not good. The third we've had for well over ten years now.

In my opinion at the very lest you need a good lettering and editing package. You need to be able to take a digitized file from a professional digitizer and in the native format that it was digitized, and after running a sample YOU need to be able to make minor adjustments. You need to be able to setup names, add lettering to stock designs etc.

And the ability to work from the native file rather than a DST is critical. It makes little things like density changes or pulling the underlay back from the edges so much easier. Period. This is non negotiable and don't believe a sales pitch that you can open the DST and the magical software will rebuild the file into an editable native format - hogwash. 

And yes, I agree with the previous comment that you need to learn to digitize, but take that one step further, you need to learn to embroider first. if you are standing in front of a machine watching designs run, you will very quickly start to notice what is good and what is bad. If you attempt to learn from the digitizing end, you will have some really upset operators and likely some dissatisfied customers.

If you jump in and you are trying to learn to digitize AND trying to learn embroidery, you will go nuts not knowing which of the many variables is the problem.

Starting out I would recommend going straight to Wilcom ES level one if you can afford it, DecoStudio if not. Don't try to learn it all. Start with the lettering, learn the nuances of pull comp and underlay. You can open designs on screen and hit "Slow Redraw" and watch how the digitizer put things together and pathed the design.

You should have no problem at all finding a professional digitizer that is able to provide you with the native EMB files. Or pulse files as well. But if you get into the lesser brands you may find your choices severely limited when searching for top notch digitizers that work in that brand of software.

You can't go wrong with the Pulse products either although my experience with them is limited.

And ask yourself this question, once you are selling embroidery with a small multihead, calculate how many different designs you will be running in a given day to keep the machine busy. This will depend upon your average order size, average design size etc.

Are you selling to teams that will rely heavily on stock designs and lettering or are you selling to corporate accounts that require custom logo work?

A two head machine, running eight hours can turn about 64 pieces of 8000 stitch designs. So if you are running average orders of 72 then you only need one design per day, and that doesn't take into account reorders of designs already on file. But if you average order size drops to 6 then you all of a sudden need 10+ designs each and every day and ten custom logos a day is a pretty good pace. Now the reality will be somewhere in the middle but it will vary for almost every shop.

Do you have the extra time in your day to devote to the digitizing of multiple designs each and every day? Do you have an employee that is capable of learning it while still keeping up with the tasks they already perform?

Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks so much, that is the kind of advice I was hoping for!


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## logoembscot (Nov 9, 2012)

Great help for me also. Thanks.


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## RickyJ702 (Jul 23, 2012)

totally agree with liberty. i jumped into embroidery a year ago for my brand. i alone focus on embroidery within my team. i had pe-design 8 also but understood that it had limitations and i hated the sectioned off work it does on one logo. then i started to pay other people to digitize it for me. the last time i let someone digitize our work they made 6 jump stitches (CLANK~CLANK~CLANK!~!) and messed up our production line. he had the nerve to tell me it's me (the opperator) on the machine. it is litterally .. letting someone else drive your car. 

i found wilcom through this forum and went for it. went to level 3 > E 2 instantly. once you get that program, you'll have to take classes online or did what i did and go to atlanta for a week to learn(best move i made). digitizing and embroidery comes hand in hand within a buisness. you should have 1 person who knows how to digitize within your team and let them worry about the embroidery.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks to all for some really good advice. I appreciate you taking the time to help us "newbies" along.


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Sounds like I'm the odd man out here. We are a small company and have had in-house embroidery for 12+ years, a 6-head and a single. We have software for creating type and editing designs.

When we started out, digitizing was $10.00-$20.00/thousand stitches. Even at that price, it was cost effective to use outside digitizers. We developed a great relationship with a digitizer who has now retired.

Learning to sew was enough of a challenge, and that is where we make our money. We almost always bill our customers for the digitized logos, plus a small profit for us. So, we're making money on the digitizing and embroidery. Plus, we are running our embroidery machines and not having them sit idle while we digitize.

Maybe if we were a larger shop this model wouldn't work, but for where we are, plus with the current decreased pricing available for quality digitizing, there is no way I would spend the money for digitizing software. Nor would I spend the time to properly learn and create digitized designs.

We are embroiderersp (and screenprinters, etc.) and not digitizers.


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## rlaubert (Aug 14, 2011)

When I started embroidery over a year ago, I wanted to digitize. I love computers and software having been in the IT field for 20 years and a hobbiest before that. So I figured it would be easy to learn and profitable. Well, I think I learned differently. I send all of my jobs out for digitizing. It cost me $20 and I get it back in 4-8 hours, next day at worse case. I tell them what I want as far as format, trims etc and I get back a file that so far has always worked for me. Now a good digitizer may be able to tweek the design but for my customers this has been working fine and I have more time for higher paying production stuff.


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

chuckh said:


> Sounds like I'm the odd man out here. We are a small company and have had in-house embroidery for 12+ years, a 6-head and a single. We have software for creating type and editing designs.
> 
> When we started out, digitizing was $10.00-$20.00/thousand stitches. Even at that price, it was cost effective to use outside digitizers. We developed a great relationship with a digitizer who has now retired.
> 
> ...


I have only been in the business for 5 years, but I 100% agree. I did purchase Embird and use it extensively for names and personalization - but we hardly ever do a logo in house. 

There are too many quality digitizers out there who will do a logo in a few hours for a reasonable price. I haven't paid more than $25 for a logo in 4 years.

DaveW


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Not the odd man out at all. Buried in my post was a recommendation to do exactly what you do, at lest at first, although I do think every embroiderer should have basic editing ability.

In an embroidery shop, you only make money when needles go up and down. Like you say, if the machines stop while the operator is punching the next job, that is counter productive at the least.

Every shop is different though, a lot of blended operations and multiple employees. IF the digitizing task can be absorbed without too much additional labor then maybe it makes sense. Maybe.

Good, thoughtful thread...



chuckh said:


> Sounds like I'm the odd man out here.


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

Like chuckh and Liberty, I think that as you're starting at least, especially with a smallish operation, you might want to concentrate on the embroidery side and farm your digitizing projects out. When you're comfortable with the embroidery process then begin doing small digitizing (letters/basic shapes) but keep your professional contacts for the larger work.

I've been embroidering for a little over two years now and decided too early to go to the expense of purchasing a digitizing program. Frustration reigned, in large part because I have been unable to put large solid blocks of time into the learning curve.

If you do find that you want to buy a program anyway, find out about learning resources before you make your final purchase.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

chuckh said:


> Sounds like I'm the odd man out here. We are a small company and have had in-house embroidery for 12+ years, a 6-head and a single. We have software for creating type and editing designs.
> 
> When we started out, digitizing was $10.00-$20.00/thousand stitches. Even at that price, it was cost effective to use outside digitizers. We developed a great relationship with a digitizer who has now retired.
> 
> ...


As I am a newbie to the embroidery world I most certainly cannot argue the merits of being able to do or not do digitizing. That said, I can certainly see were it could be advantageous to be able to do at least basic digitizing. What happens if you get your job back from your digitizer and it needs just a touch of tweeking?


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

3Wide said:


> What happens if you get your job back from your digitizer and it needs just a touch of tweeking?


That depends on the nature of the tweek, I suppose. If its a colour change or something like that, you should be able to most of that on your own, sometimes right on your machine. If its a bit more complex, I send it back with instructions. The digitizer I use, and I suspect most digitizers might be the same, will do the tweeking at no extra charge.


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I am with those who don't digitize and don't want to I have a 6 year old pe design. All I Use it for is combining designs . Lettering and sent the designs to my machines. any one you wants a logo or a personal design digitized I send out and charge my customer or it.

Works for me


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

3Wide said:


> As I am a newbie to the embroidery world I most certainly cannot argue the merits of being able to do or not do digitizing. That said, I can certainly see were it could be advantageous to be able to do at least basic digitizing. What happens if you get your job back from your digitizer and it needs just a touch of tweeking?


I didn't know anything when I started either (may still suffer from that ) but in retrospect, I think I ended up doing it correctly for my situation by purchasing Embird ($400ish) and doing a couple of logos myself. 

Doing something, then sewing it on the machine, taught me a lot about the machine and the basics of digitizing.

I rarely digitize a logo anymore, but this experience, along with the program, allows me to tweak things when needed with no hassle.

I also learned enough about embroidery and digitizing to speak the language, which makes outsourcing work much, much easier.

Like I said, I got lucky that I ended up doing exactly what I needed to to in a pretty economical method. I was very close to plunking down the coin for Pulse and really the only reason I didn't is that we spent so much on the machine.

It would be a shame to have spent thousands on Pulse and using it the way I use Embird now. 

All that said, I operate in corporate world. I manufacture garments for corporate customers that have to meet a budget and manufacturing timeframe. 

A lot of embroidery companies are more "Artistic" where they are creating and sewing these intricate, beautiful designs and sewing them on family heirlooms and other hard to get garments.

That artistic world, IMO, is a whole different place than I operate and I don't think my path would work for that. I don't even know enough about digitizing to know if Embird would be OK for that kind of work - I suspect not.

I am not saying one is better or worse, I just think that they are different.

DaveW


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

All things considered I have learned a lot on this post and appreciate all the insight given to me. 

Looks like I will stick to my original plan of getting started with embroidery, farm out my digitizing and see how it goes from there. Do any of you fine folks have a favorite digitizer you would share???


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## S Paul Williams (Oct 15, 2011)

3Wide said:


> Do any of you fine folks have a favorite digitizer you would share???


I'll PM you in a moment


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## BassSlayer (Mar 16, 2011)

Usdigitizing.com


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## inobu (Dec 29, 2010)

3Wide

Adding embroidering to your shops product line is good but you truly have to identify your market type. Small, or large runs. Each requires a different business model. 

A single head unit is good for small runs and in house digitizing. Small Profit on both sides. 

Having digitizing capabilities and no machine cuts on your overhead and gives you product control. 

Large run with a single head will require you to farm out. Chances are the wholesaler that you use will use wilcom and will not guarantee your file. If there is a fault in the run the wholesaler will cover their own file. There are a lot of factors that you will have to contend with. 

Let me clarify my position first.........

I had my own vision and reality has set me straight after a few weeks.

I bought a single head (Melco unit) with the thought of using it for proofing and small runs (no real money in it). The model was I digitized it, proofed it in a day, farmed it out and delivered it in a few days later. 

Problem my digitizing program was different from the wholesaler, they could not stand behind my work, their machine was different than mine (They have 40 Tajima's) so it was safer to have them digitize it. So it turned out I did not use my machine nor my software. 

To solve my problem I need to purchase Wilcom to match my wholesaler's service, learn the difference between my machine and theirs in order to have matching proofs. From that point my model can go on as planned. 

If I'm lucky this year I may get this corporate account I'm working on and the only thing I need to do is make a phone call and email a dst. 

After seeing a 40 head setup I just rolled my eyes thinking how can my one head unit compete with that and do I even want to try. 

If you really want to learn digitizing get Wilcom, link up with a wholesaler and use his machine's so to speak. If things go well enough you should be able to recoup the wilcom program's cost and be ready to buy your machine if you want to. If not you can continue along at a slower pace. 

Inobu


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

inobu said:


> 3Wide
> 
> Adding embroidering to your shops product line is good but you truly have to identify your market type. Small, or large runs. Each requires a different business model.
> 
> ...


NOTE: This is not an argument, more an observation on how complex the embroidery industry is and how everyone works differently.

We started with Tajima and therefore DST files. We run 3 single head machines in house for on demand orders and generally outsource large runs.

I have worked with at least 10 different contract embroidery places and have never* had one of our files digitized elsewhere be rejected or not guaranteed by the contract house.

We have also never had a problem with things we sew in house not matching the outsource items. When we first started, we had to learn the language of thread colors and types so we all were on the same page.

*We have had to adjust/re-digitize files to fit correctly on hats and especially visors.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks.

DaveW


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

BassSlayer said:


> Usdigitizing.com


 
I second that US Digitizing.


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## jwcollect (Oct 24, 2007)

Five years ago I bought an embroidery machine and $3000 digitizing software. I quickly found out that it can take years before you produce a real good digitized file. For us we farm out the digitizing and add that to the cost of the job. The result is I get great digitized files that the customer pays for and everyone is happy.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

inobu said:


> 3Wide
> 
> Adding embroidering to your shops product line is good but you truly have to identify your market type. Small, or large runs. Each requires a different business model.
> 
> ...


Let me give you a little background on our little slice of heaven, we are a small graphics shop in a small town but have a fairly substantial base of clients in motorsports. Although we do the traditional graphic shop fare such as signs, truck lettering, car and trailer wraps, banners etc. our bread and butter is wrapping race cars and we currently have customers in three states. 

Over the past couple of years we have been seriously thinking of adding screen printing and embroidery to our shop to give our racing friends the ability to "one stop shop". As we already have gone to all the work of designing the colors, graphics, sponsors, and numbers it seems to make sense to try to capture more of our market. 

That said, our embroidery will be one entity of a three entity business so a single head or two head machine will not have to cover all the overhead. I am looking to supply our customers with a quality product at a fair price and grow the business from there... Ah but I digress, at least for now our embroidery would be made up of short runs of probably 50 or less units and I have come to the realization with much help from all the fine folks on this forum that I would be much better served to hire my digitizing done if I want to provide a quality product but maybe buy a basic program to do simple designs and fonts.

This is what I love about this forum, you can get some really great advice from people who have "been there, done that" and that can help newbies such as myself stay on the right track as well as avoid mistakes. And as everyone knows, mistakes generally cost money.


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## jwcollect (Oct 24, 2007)

Embroidery- if you're going to embroider 50 pieces on a regular you may need more heads to complete the jobs on a timely basis. You should consider the Melco Amaya XTS single head machines. You can start with one and add additional machines as you need. Even though they are single machines they can act as one and if you have a problem with one the rest of the machines still work. multi head machines all work at the same time regardless of how many pieces you embroider. There is a steep learning curve to learn how to do quality digitizing so I would recommend you find a good digitizer. Just build in the cost of the digitizing into the job. I use Melco and my $3000 digitizing software is collecting dust.


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## jwcollect (Oct 24, 2007)

Screen printing - a decent setup will cost you around $20 -25 k. If your going to do a couple of hundred shirts a week you could get away with a manual press. I use and recommend the Vastex 2000 press, start with a 6 x 6 no matter which press you get. If you anticipate printing thousands of shirts then you want an auto press and I highly recommend an M&R press.


Go to an ISS show and check out all the equipment, you'll learn a lot.


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## jwcollect (Oct 24, 2007)

By the way since you're familiar with vinyl and cutting you should also get some heat applied vinyl for apparel and heat press stuff on shirts especially numbers and names. Just make sure you get the right vinyl so the subliminal ex shirts don't bleed through.


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

When I finally decided to buy an embroidery machine after farming out my work for a number of years, I went to the ISS Atlantic City show with the idea of buying either a 4 or 6 head machine. Everyone at the show told me to buy a single head for my first machine: the embroiderers demonstrating machines in the booths, the thread and embroidery supply companies, other attendees I spoke with, even a couple of embroidery machine reps at the show. It didn't make sense to me to have an order for 24 or 36 pieces and sew them one at a time.

I purchased a six head machine. It was the right purchase for me. I would recommend buying nothing less than a two head, but urge you to really think about a four head. 

Let's say you average 30 pieces per order, and I'm being conservative since you mentioned 50. Suppose you have a design that takes 15 minutes to run.....if you can load and unload your hoops in no time, get no thread breaks, no empty bobbins, no interruptions, and take 30 minutes for lunch, you will need an 8 hour day to complete the job with a single head machine.

If you have a 2-head, you'll need at least 4 hours. If you have a 4 head, you're done in about 2-2 1/2 hours and still have most of the day left. Obviously shop space is a consideration as well as the expense of a machine, but time is at a premium.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks much, we do currently have a heat press and print mostly on Darkjet media. The heat press is cool because with our large format printer we can print picture quality and apply to apparel. Downside is the heavy hand feel the transfers have and doing volume.


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

Maybe I need to think bigger...but I believe our big run with embroidery will be somewhat seasonal and I have plenty of other things to do while the machine is running. I do however, like the idea of a machine you can add heads to but would that be cost prohibitive compared to a four head machine from the start?

There is a saying in the graphics business that the nice thing about it is you only have to work half days.....and you get to pick which 12 hours.


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

3Wide said:


> Maybe I need to think bigger...but I believe our big run with embroidery will be somewhat seasonal and I have plenty of other things to do while the machine is running. I do however, like the idea of a machine you can add heads to but would that be cost prohibitive compared to a four head machine from the start?
> 
> There is a saying in the graphics business that the nice thing about it is you only have to work half days.....and you get to pick which 12 hours.


For us, it is/was very hard to do orders bigger than about 20-30 pieces on our single head.

It just doesn't work out that you really have 15 free minutes while a design is running - there is going to be a thread break or pullout, empty bobbin, etc. Not to mention that the other things you do probably don't fit in 15 minute concentration blocks.

IMO, a single single head is good for very small orders and personalization. We ran with one machine for 4 years and did pretty well with it, but we rarely did orders over 12 pieces unless it was a very dead time of the year and I could dedicate someone to sit there and babysit the machine. If you do that math on paying yourself or someone to sit there and generate $20 per hour of embroidery, it doesn't add up.

Where we make our bread and butter is on demand single items. We have the market niche and the prices we charge support the costs.

Just last year, we added a 2nd and 3rd single head machine and it is amazing what that did for our capacity. 20-30-40 piece orders are pretty easy to crank out now. That said, unless we were completely dead, I would outsource a 100 piece order. We still outsource all hats and probably always will.

Anyway, have you fully investigated outsourcing embroidery? Especially large runs? And compared to the cost of machines? 

Custom Embroidery Retail Price Sheet - Atlas Embroidery

That is ASI pricing - look up an A discount code for your final price.

For a 50 piece order with 10k stitches, can you cost justify buying a $20-30k multi head machine when they can sew it out for less than $200? Could you cost justify that same order on a single head that cost you $7k to buy and took 17 man hours to sew out?

All of that said - we outsourced embroidery before we got a machine and it was a frightening experience almost every time. We just didn't understand the ins and outs and a lot of stupid things we did cost us a lot of money. Getting the machine and dabbling in a little bit of digitizing was almost priceless for our learning curve and now that we know (a little bit) about the process, making outsourced orders is very easy.

I hope this helps you with information. I am not arguing or trying to bias one way or another. Everyone's business is different.

HTH,

DaveW


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## 3Wide (Nov 23, 2012)

DaveW said:


> For us, it is/was very hard to do orders bigger than about 20-30 pieces on our single head.
> 
> It just doesn't work out that you really have 15 free minutes while a design is running - there is going to be a thread break or pullout, empty bobbin, etc. Not to mention that the other things you do probably don't fit in 15 minute concentration blocks.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks much Dave, as someone who is trying to cash flow the embroidery aspect of our venture your information truly helps gain some perspective. Until actually doing the work its hard to determine what type of equipment will best suit your operation and you and others on the forum have helped me along.

I am sure you have figured out what your materials only cost is, without overhead, machine payments etc. Can you share with me just the material costs? I realize that is kind of a wide open subject so if it makes it easier can give me an example of a job you have done and what you figured your cost of materials was and how long it took to stich?

Lastly, is there a reason you outsource your hats? I will be honest, with our customer base I can truly see how hats could very well be the lions share of our business.

Thanks much


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

3Wide said:


> Thanks much Dave, as someone who is trying to cash flow the embroidery aspect of our venture your information truly helps gain some perspective. Until actually doing the work its hard to determine what type of equipment will best suit your operation and you and others on the forum have helped me along.
> 
> I am sure you have figured out what your materials only cost is, without overhead, machine payments etc. Can you share with me just the material costs? I realize that is kind of a wide open subject so if it makes it easier can give me an example of a job you have done and what you figured your cost of materials was and how long it took to stich?
> 
> ...


Embroidery materials only? I haven't figured them in a while - they are very, very small. A spool 5000 yard spool of thread is $7.00. 1000 sheets of backing (2-3 used per shirt) is $40.00. 100 pre wound bobbins are $27. 

My software doesn't seem to tell me how much bobbin and thread is used for a given design, but it is very low. We did an order with a large 33k stitch one color design on the back recently, 30 jackets total. That used around one or two cones of white thread and a bobbin for every 3 jackets. Each jacket took 25 minutes to sew. 

A typical front of shirt or jacket logo is 10k stitches for us.

For labor, our orders are "on demand" and typically 1-3 units. They usually have different logos and also have personalization, about 60% of the time. 

My operator is expected to output 2-3 complete orders per machine, per hour. If she is running a bigger order, with the same logo, we up that to 3-4. It is kind of a squishy number because some days you have complex logos that take a long time to sew, and other days you run personalization on items that you put logos on yesterday.

Regarding hats - the logos must be digitized differently and small enough to fit on the hats. They take a special fixture on the machine which depending on the machine, can take between 2-10 minutes to attach, and sew slower. There are also a lot more machine "issues" for us on hats, causing the number of wasted/destroyed garments to be much higher.

A shirt/jacket/bag/regular garment is generally the same as any other as far as embroidery. If you can mount it on the machine, it will generally sew pretty well. 

Hats (for us) are a whole different world. A design will sew out fine on an unstructured hat and then you will try it on a structured one and it looks like crap or won't sew at all. Or vice versa. 

Because of all that, we don't do them on our "on-demand" service at all and only sell hats to people in orders of 12 or 24 or 48 and more, therefore we can outsource them and still make money. There is a real sweet spot for pricing in the industry at 48 pieces, you can generally get free digitizing at this level and the prices are really, really good. 

For example, we just did 48 hats with a 14k stitch logo in one location on them and our out the door price for everything was around $4.00. That was with a vendor who supplies the hat and does the embroidery (Custom Embroidered Promotional Headwear, Quality Hats - Cap America Inc)

For orders that need a different hats, we typically buy them and have this place 5 B's - Embroidered t-shirts and hats, contract embroidery do the embroidery for us. They also do overflow for us for flats, but are especially good at hats. (Note their prices are your NET cost, not the marked up ASI ones like Atlas)

Anyway, in conclusion on hats, we have found for us that we can outsource completely and make more money than messing with them ourselves. If we ever add hats to our on demand, we will add another machine that only does hats and restrict the offering to hats that we know sew well.

HTH,

DaveW


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## digitizewedo (Nov 2, 2010)

Learning to digitize is like learning to drive a car , there are two types and manual and automatic , well digitizing can be the same, I do not like auto digitizing, but I do digitize manually. Its not hard to learn and it takes some time, If you contact me I can point you in the right direction for learning how to digitize and different software packages.


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