# Determining Prices



## missdoctorlady (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm rolling and going full steam ahead! 

I have a couple of questions about determining how much you charge. I know I'm new and am not as fast as you guys probably are, but it takes me quite a while to design, cut, then brush in stones and press the shirt. 

So I've been getting A LOT of requests for local businesses wanting logo/company shirts and some people wanting custom designs. While this is definitely a huge blessing, I'm wondering how to price this. I have Win PCSign Pro 2012, but it's still not a 5 minute process to create the template. Sticky flock ain't cheap! Then when you throw in a few colors .... WHEW! Yes, I have the pricing calculator.

Am I missing something? Charging $35 - $40 a shirt for a process that's very involved is not what I want to do.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Whatever you do, don't tally up what it costs you!... You'll discover you aren't making anything! LOL

OK I kid... Sorta... I'm new to Rhinestones too and when you actually price it all out... It doesn't seem like there's the amount of profit I thought there would be...

Take this shirt for example... One off shirt... Custom Order...

Nothing fancy right... Problem is I didn't have the template for the front... I had the Sticky Flock alphabet for the back...

My gut tells me $30-$35 is top dollar I just don't think I would get an order for more than that...

The front design is 906 stones.. The Back 846 - 1752 Total

Let's start with the shirt... $6.40

Stones I took an average price I pay... .003888 each... Total stone cost... $6.81

Now I have to cut the template material for the front... I use my own home brew sticky twill material... It's cheap and it works... I charge it out at .25 per 1" of 15" wide material... The front design is 4" tall and I add 2 inches for my weed border and another 2 inches for waste... So that's $2.00 x 2 because I have a 2 color design... So that's $4.00 for the front template...

Back template I have so no charge for that...

My only other cost for this shirt is the heat press material for the Go Bulldogs... And the Hot Fix Tape... The Hot Fix tape is dirt cheap... I almost dont' even count it but let's add $.50 cents just for the heck of it...

The Heat Press material... .25 an inch... 4 inches including waste... $1.00.

So to tally it all up...

Shirt $6.40
Stones $6.81
Template Material $4.00
Heat Press Material $1.00
Hot Fix Tape $ .50

My raw costs... $18.71... No time added here...

So that's $16.29 "profit" at $35.00 $11.29 at $30.00.

I quoted $35.00.... I live in Iowa... I can tell you people here are pretty frugal...

Realistically... I had to create the design... I have to communicate with the customer... I created the proof you see here... Upon approval I have to cut the design and make the shirt... I think it's reasonable to state start to finish... An hour for this shirt is being generous... I think I would have more time than that in it...

So my $16.29 of "profit" ain't looking so good if I have an hour into making the shirt... That doesn't account for any equipment use, electricity etc... 

Now the next shirt like this I get an order for... Well my costs dramatically decrease as I would have only like 15 minutes invested and the template already made... 

Just starting out though until I build up my library of templates... I'm not exactly getting rich!

Kevin


----------



## missdoctorlady (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks!!! But whoa.... what's this "home brew sticky twill" material you're talking about? Do tell!


----------



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

missdoctorlady said:


> Thanks!!! But whoa.... what's this "home brew sticky twill" material you're talking about? Do tell!


Well Stahls (Heat Presses, Heat Transfer Materials - Garment Decoration & Personalization | Stahls') sells Poly Twill.

10 Yards for $32.00... I couple that with Oracle 631 or really any sign material works about as good... 15" x 50 yards is $53.00

I heat press the twill to the Oracal 631... Then cut the twill as normal... The 631 gives me the "Sticky" in "Sticky Twill"...

Basically right at $1.50 per foot for the template material... 15" x 12"... Very cost effective and bottom line it works... Compare that to the real Sticky Flock or even my home brew Sticky Flock... Made the same way as the Sticky Twill but with Stahls CAD-CUT-Flock... $75.50 a 10 yard Roll!!! OUCH! But even still compare that to $250.00 for a 10 yard roll of the real Sticky Flock!... Give me a heart attack just typing it! LOL

For under $40.00 with the Sticky Twill I have the same quantity of template material and honestly for me... It works just as good...

Stahls also has a "Perma Twill" that sounds interesting but I've never tired it and it's only a couple more dollars for a 10 yard roll than the Poly Twill.

I did a video awhile back on making the home brew Sticky Flock and the process is identical for the Sticky Twill... Which I discovered after making the home brew Sticky Flock...

Making Rhinestone Template Material from Flock - YouTube

I do 90% of everything now with my Sticky Twill because my cutter cuts it great... weeds super easy... and it's super cheap compared really to any other rhinestone material I know of... Even the green rubber stuff...

You have to work a little to "make" the material... But I've got kids for that...

Kevin


----------



## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

Hey Kevin, how do you get your mockups to look so realistic? It looks awesome!


----------



## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

katruax said:


> Well Stahls (Heat Presses, Heat Transfer Materials - Garment Decoration & Personalization | Stahls') sells Poly Twill.
> 
> 10 Yards for $32.00... I couple that with Oracle 631 or really any sign material works about as good... 15" x 50 yards is $53.00
> 
> ...


Have you tried Stahls Pressure Sensitive Poly-Twill for your template material? I wonder if there is enough tack on the back to illuminate having to press the Oracle 631.


----------



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BlingItOn said:


> Have you tried Stahls Pressure Sensitive Poly-Twill for your template material? I wonder if there is enough tack on the back to illuminate having to press the Oracle 631.


Nope.... The PS Twill doesn't have enough tack... That's actually what I started with... Then switched to their Poly Twill... I'm going to order some rolls of their Perma Twill next...

It's a minor step having to press the sign vinyl... Saves a load though...

I discovered it by accident as I was out of flock material but I had lots of twill on the rack and now I just can't bring myself to use anything different given the huge cost savings... Especially for one offs...

Kevin


----------



## Krystle1981 (Oct 1, 2010)

Have you tried the real sticky flock material? What's your comparison on brushing in stones?


----------



## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

katruax said:


> Nope.... The PS Twill doesn't have enough tack... That's actually what I started with... Then switched to their Poly Twill... I'm going to order some rolls of their Perma Twill next...
> 
> It's a minor step having to press the sign vinyl... Saves a load though...
> 
> ...


Thanks...I'm out of my Stahls flock material too and I was going to order more until I read your post. I think I'll try the poly twill then. Is you heat temp and time still the same when you switched to the twill?

Where do you get your Oracle 631?


----------



## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

Krystle1981 said:


> Have you tried the real sticky flock material? What's your comparison on brushing in stones?


I have both the real sticky flock and the homemade version that I made from Stahls flock material and repositionable wall vinyl that I purchased from Specialty Graphics. The homemade material in my opinion is just as good as the genuine sticky flock and the rhinestones brush in just as nicely too. You do have to take a couple of minutes to press the two items together but to save over 1/2 the cost of the real stuff it's well worth it too me. 

I can't wait to try the poly twill and see how that works and possibly save more money yet.


----------



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Krystle1981 said:


> Have you tried the real sticky flock material? What's your comparison on brushing in stones?


Yes I have tried the real deal Sticky Flock... Then I tried the home brew... Side by side I can't tell the difference...

As for brushing the stones... No difference... One is no better or worse than the other...

On the "Sticky Twill" again no real difference... The Hot Fix tape does stick a little more to the twill than the flock but that's not really an issue... It still comes off real nice and easy. You can also layer the "Sticky Twill" just like the flock material... For me it's a great alternative especially for one off designs...

The one potential issue with the twill is the cut circles in time could fray... Now I've used "Sticky Twill" templates a hundred times or more and don't see the fraying but I know in general CadCut twill when washed will fray and that's why you need to sew it when doing applique...

You can get a 5 yard roll from Stahls for $20.00 so it's really cheap to try it for yourself. 

If you have used twill yourself please share your experience as well.

I did a video using the "Sticky Twill" and brushing in the stones so you can see how well it works... 

Home Brew "Sticky Twill" Demo - YouTube

$40.00 for 10 yards is a big difference than $250.00 for 10 yards of the real Sticky Flock or even $80.00 for 10 yards of the Home Brew flock... Even the Green Rubber Hartco 425 is going to run you roughly $90 for 10 yards...

So by far the twill if you like the way it works for you is the most cost effective option that I have found...

Kevin


----------



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BlingItOn said:


> Where do you get your Oracle 631?


I get my 631 from www.signwarehouse.com but if you don't have a need for it otherwise and you have any sign vinyl on hand.... Just use what you have... Regular sign vinyl works just as well.. Infact the 3M brand Premium adds a lot more stick than the 631 but given the cost of the 631 and I stock it for Wall Graphics I just use it...

Kevin


----------



## Hartz (Aug 22, 2011)

Krystle1981 said:


> Hey Kevin, how do you get your mockups to look so realistic? It looks awesome!



I too am interested in how you do your mockups. They look great.


----------



## ccolors1 (Jan 16, 2011)

Hartz said:


> I too am interested in how you do your mockups. They look great.


 Me also, what software are you using?


----------



## vividimageswi (Apr 13, 2012)

One of the companies that I purchase shirts from has a design studio software that is available for their customers to use. I upload my design to their software adjust the size to look right and email it off. They look almost the same as what Kevin did. Not sure if that is how he does it, but it is how I do them


----------

