# How many mock ups do you send to a customer who keeps changing the original design?



## CELEBRATIONS (Feb 16, 2011)

I have a customer that requested a design. I have emailed changes per her request 4 times. How many changes should I allow before I start charging for the design changes ?


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## pxs93710 (Jun 21, 2010)

I tell them I will give them 30 minutes of design time for the first layout after that it will cost them to make changes. I will charge them by the 1/4 hour for any changes. Only thing is this all has to be agreed to before you start and after a deposit is collected, your time is not free.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

1. If the design changes from the original parameters there is a charge for design.


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

I charge a $20 design fee up front which includes 2 minor design revisions. If they want to make a major revision that will include more extensive design time they have to pay an additional $20 design fee. I was like you before and would send revision after revision for free, but now that I put a price on it it's funny how quickly people can make up their mind.


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## AtkinsonConsult (May 2, 2011)

Celebrations:

No offense, but are you sure you understood what they wanted designed originally? 

I found that if you ask a good amount of questions beforehand you can eliminate a lot of revisions on the back end. This is especially true with the dreaded "Do Something Cool" creative brief.

One trick that I've used forever is specifically asking what they DON'T want to see in the design.

However, there are always those people that just constantly tweak stuff, and its very frustrating and maddening. I make the change and move on. I don't charge for them.

Everyone does this differently, and it has to make sense for you and your clients. Shop shops charge for art, others don't. Some only charge for different type spec projects.

Good luck,

-M


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## CELEBRATIONS (Feb 16, 2011)

Thank you all for your responses. This one is actually a large group of women and the leader is the one that likes the original design then takes it back to the group and that's we're all the changes come in. I normally will send 2 or 3 different options with the first mock. With future group orders I will let them know that changes are limited.


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## MadeByM.E.313 (Nov 20, 2010)

If its for a logo use a logo questionnaire, like the previous comment said, you want to minimize your guessing so ask what they don't want to see. Charge up front! Deposits 50%. Layout the rules first. I say, I'll send you 2-3 drafts then you choose one or combine them all(color ,shape, letters) after that additional charges will take place. Very true how they make up their mind fast. As a designer it is your job to tell them what they want is what you have so inturn its what they need. Especially those that dont know sht on what they looking for. Lol good luck wish you great success! 


"Vivo Sabroso, Porque Siempre Trabajo"


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

If you have a website I highly recommend using a free form service from Jotform.com. I have created a form for my customers to fill out when they request a new design. The form even allows to upload a logo if they have one. You can customize the form and ask the question you need know. The form is great and helps take the guess work out of it. They submit the information to me and I price the design based on the information they have given me. 

There has been way to many times I have "thought" that I knew what the customer wanted but it turned out that our ideas were very different. Like when someone says I want a large design. What's size is large...8", 10", 12"? Since implementing the form on my website I find that I make way fewer revisions which saves time and money. 

In your case though, working with a group there are bound to be revisions because it's hard to please everyone. Before I started charging for the Art Work I had a group of ladies come to me to design a logo for their in home jewelry business. I sent them (4) different designs and they requested numerous revisions on all 4 layouts. In the end I spent countless hours making these mockups and they didn't even order one design. Not sure if they took my art work and got it priced somewhere else or not but after that I made the choice to get some money upfront before the design process even starts.


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## CELEBRATIONS (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks BlingItOn I will try this. For future group orders I will ask many questions and i will find out who will be making the final decision on the design prior to sending any mocks. The good thing is that I make it very clear that I will not start any order without payment in full upfront. Customers have been ok with this but I still want to get paid for the time it takes to design.


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## leapoffaith (Nov 8, 2009)

NOOOOOOOO! A group of women deciding on a design together? I've been there -- it can be a nightmare!! Especially if the one in charge (if there is one) doesn't rein them in a bit. Good luck.


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## logoadvantage (Nov 16, 2009)

I just had a talk with a friend of mine that did caution me to always charge a set up fee and have guidelines otherwise this would happen. I do not do custom screen printing, embroidery, signs or logo development without a set up fee so this falls right in there with the other services we will provide where I will charge a set up fee. I am very new to Rhinestones, but not the other processes and I on everythine else we do there is always set up fees to cover our graphic time. My employees do not work for free so I have to cover that expense.


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## ChefScott (Nov 25, 2011)

I always charge a fee for design work. After all my time is not free. I let the customer know up front before I even accept a job just what my charges are. I also will include 2 revisions with that initial charge.
I recently had a customer want me to do all sorts of designs for them, on the premise that they would bring me future work. They were going to use the samples as a donation to various people/businesses to get their business. I let them know that how they get their work is not my issue, I do not work for free or on the promise of future work. Then they wanted pricing based on what they had seen online from various vendors for rhinestone transfers, but that they wanted the transfers I would make for them to be exclusive to them. I let them know that they should go with those vendors who buy those transfers by the thousands.

Always remember that your time is not free.


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

Yea I have fallen for the "I'm going to be purchasing a ton of this design so will you give me the price break up front". Some people will say anything to barter a better price but I stand firm with my pricing and charge for my services not someone else's.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We offer free artwork but had to put a 2 hour limit on it because of abusive customers. After that they pay per change.


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## MadeByM.E.313 (Nov 20, 2010)

binki said:


> We offer free artwork but had to put a 2 hour limit on it because of abusive customers. After that they pay per change.


When you say free artwork. Do you mean you as the designer get to keep it and they as the client can only use it once?

I too tried doing free artwork, and there will always be abusive clients when it comes to freebies.


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## jackpine (Jul 27, 2009)

Your are a business not Santa Clause. Nothing should be free. Ask, "Do you have a logo AND a budget?" My time starts at $150.00 for 3 quick layouts, hand drawn and then 3 revisions (if necessary) of the ONE they choose to develop for their need. If it becomes a business logo...cost is more to develop into black/white, grayscale and color for their needs. Set an hourly rate and stick with it. You don't get "freebees" at the grocery store or when your car needs repairs.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

MadeByM.E.313 said:


> When you say free artwork. Do you mean you as the designer get to keep it and they as the client can only use it once?
> 
> I too tried doing free artwork, and there will always be abusive clients when it comes to freebies.


We don't charge for artwork as a separate charge. The client does not get any files, just their finished product. They can reorder if they wish.


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## cascolo (Mar 8, 2007)

Logo design $375, three simple revisions. After the 3rd revision $75hr minimum $75!. Logo conversion or non ready artwork $75. The artwork it's theirs to used & do what they whant with it. I never understood trying to keep track of how the design its being used, too much stress.

Sent from my EVO using T-Shirt Forums


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## MadeByM.E.313 (Nov 20, 2010)

Cool, I treat my clients like children, they know nothing about what they want or how they want it. For logo work I have a logo questionnaire that I changed to fit my standards. I offer two prices; one is for them to buy their logo in any non-editable file format; jpeg,gif, bmp. Then theres the expensive choice of selling them the actual file be it eps, ai. Psd 
Sometimes they ask for revisions so I give them another price option, 3 revisions in one year, or 5 revisions in 3 years. But revisions are limited to color, size, file format, change of text. Very simple revisions that do not change the actual design, if it does then I charge for a whole new logo. 
This has worked for me for the past year. But it took me over a decade to get it right. 
Thank you fellow designers for assuring me we are doing the right thing by not letting our work be Aiken advantage of. 
Great success for us all!


"Vivo Sabroso, Porque Siempre Trabajo"


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