# using sublimation ink on 100% cotton or 50/50



## kingna-tive7

can i use sublimation ink on 100% cotton? ive been told that i cant only 100% poly, is this true. they told me i had to use durablast ink's. let me know because i was gonna buy the epson 1400, but it only takes sublimation ink and not durablast. enlighten me!!!!!!!11


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## charles95405

sublimation ink...is a special ink..and it will NOT work on cotton...and just barely work with 65/35 blend. It requires 100% polyester in white or some pastels..Reason is the ink on specail paper is turned into a gas by the heat and the pressure forces the gas into the garment where it bonds with the polyester fiber..what is on the coton fibers will wash out badly...

I use the 1400 for sublimation. It comes with claria ink which Espon describes as water resistant. It is not a pigment ink as most like to use in ordinary transfer. Some members have used Claria ink with JPSS paper.. I have not...So in short you can use the 1400 for other than sublimaton...do a search and you will find a long thread on using the 1400 and Claria ink...but you can also buy pigment ink in either carts or CIS


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## kingna-tive7

Thanks Charlie, what is CIS? and can i use the 1400 on dark garmets with gold something transfer paper?


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## charles95405

CIS...is continious ink supply...a bulk system...makes the ink cost less per transfer...but the hardware do do this would be 150-300 USD...and ink separate.. check with any of the vendors on here about pricing.. Whether or not you can print on dark shirts is not dependent on the printer but on the transfer paper you are using...such as Iron All for Dark..or similiar...again...check with the vendors here as to what papers they have for dark...personally I have not found any that I will use for commercial purposes..if I have an order for print on dark...I outsource to a DTG (direct to garment) operator..


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## kingna-tive7

ok, thanks, you've been helpful!


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## frankiko

if my memory serves me right... i think you can sublimate on 100% cotton now. all you have to do is spray it with that polymer chemical first.

i can't find now where I read it and there's also a website that sells the chemical.
i hope somebody will post it here.. especially the website address.
i haven't tried it myself but if i find that source again i might give a try.


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## kingna-tive7

Thanks frank, thats a first for but it sounds quite accurate!


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## charles95405

the spray only puts a polymer base on the garment and it will not hold up to washing...I have been doing sublimation for almost 8 years and I have yet to find a spray or poilymer patch that I will use commercially...This method does not change the fibers of the cotton..only puts a transfer ON TOP of the garment and not fused...you would be better off to use something like JPSS ....it will be cheaper and will last longer than the spray on method..


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## frankiko

charles95405 said:


> the spray only puts a polymer base on the garment and it will not hold up to washing...I have been doing sublimation for almost 8 years and I have yet to find a spray or poilymer patch that I will use commercially...This method does not change the fibers of the cotton..only puts a transfer ON TOP of the garment and not fused...you would be better off to use something like JPSS ....it will be cheaper and will last longer than the spray on method..


 JPSS? is there a site where I can get more info about this, Charles? thanks.


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## charles95405

try this site....HEAT PRESS ESSENTIALS,tee Square it, Logo it, teflon sheets, T Shirt Transfer Paper. JPSS. Jet Pro SofStretch look near the top of the page...just before the frames...and you will see the Jet Pro SS...and ironall for dark...drop and email and he will fix you up


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## Solmu

frankiko said:


> i think you can sublimate on 100% cotton now. all you have to do is spray it with that polymer chemical first.


*On* being the operative word: it's the polymer that gets sublimated, and not the cotton.


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## COEDS

Solmu said:


> *On* being the operative word: it's the polymer that gets sublimated, and not the cotton.


 I totally aree with you Lewis the key word is "on". I have seen people use dye sub ink with transfer paper and it will print and adhere to cotton or 50/50 garments. The issue is as the poly coating is washed away so is the ink. The ink doesn't permeate the shirt fibers, just the poly coating. The answer to the question is yes it can be done, but it won't last past the poly coating. .... JB


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## conde tech

No, you can not sublimate to a 100% cotton shirt. You can sublimate to a 50/50 blend shirt. But, it must be a shirt that is specifically designed for sublimation. The shirt will poly. on the OUTSIDE and cotton on the INSIDE.


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## jagojoli

conde tech said:


> No, you can not sublimate to a 100% cotton shirt. You can sublimate to a 50/50 blend shirt. But, it must be a shirt that is specifically designed for sublimation. The shirt will poly. on the OUTSIDE and cotton on the INSIDE.


Hi,
I have tshirt that I screen printed with a liquid so now I can print a sublimation ink on a tshirt cotton.
It works well and sell very well in here.


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## conde tech

Glad to here you are having some success. I would like to see your work. Would you send me a physical sample?


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## jagojoli

conde tech said:


> Glad to here you are having some success. I would like to see your work. Would you send me a physical sample?



I will be happy to sent you the samples as long as you pay for the shipping.
just give me your address and ups account


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## fl3afly

yes, sublimation on cotton is possible.
i already tri it too, but still only on white tees
or light colour tees.
i still looking for how to make sublimation on dark colour tees.
the result of the transfer proses was good.
it is better than using transfer paper.


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## charles95405

I hate to be rude and argumentative BUT...YOU CANNOT SUBLIMATE COTTON...sublimation is the process...(damn I am tired to typing this) where the gas created by heat permeates the material (100% poluyester) and bonds with the fiber...thus becoming part of the garment...any thing else...using spray (only puts coating ON the garment) is temporary at best...do this and wash 25 times...it will fade and wash out because it is ON the garment not bonded. Sublimation ink will not bond with cotton...it just sets on top...period.. I have been doing sublimation for over 9 years and I have yet to see any change..Until someone that says they sublimate cotton can show me different...I stand by my comments

I am not aware you can dye any black garment to say...a pale blue....if so ...show me


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## jiarby

Cool Hand Luke Quote:
"What we have here is a failure to communicate!"


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## clayboyrat

As many of you who have said you can use sublimation ink with 100% cotton useing a spray or a polymer sheet. But it will not be the same as using it with a polly product. But the question is why? Spraying is an extra step. More time. More money. The price of sub ink vs pigment ink and JPSS. Every wonder why sublimation products are priced higher the others?


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## mrdavid

Jagojoli can you show some pics and let us know how you did this thanks....


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## blakk hail

hey whats up i would like to know if the special poly ts for sub gets thoes little balls of lint and does it have that unwanted rugged feel reason being im about to order the ts fore my 1400 and i would hate to get returns on my products


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## conde tech

Actually, the tees for sublimation are more comfortable than regular tees. They are poly on the outside and cotton on the inside.


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## Cjoe Design

conde tech said:


> Actually, the tees for sublimation are more comfortable than regular tees. They are poly on the outside and cotton on the inside.


The Hanes Are cotton on the inside, but most of my customers prefer the Vapor tees. These are also 100% poly but they are more comfortable than any 100% cotton. The biggest hurdle is convincing the customer. Get some samples and you will see what I mean. Cond'e sells all sorts of colors and styles and has the best prices. It's all I wear. I even have customers that have used the darker color Vapors and used heat transfers on them. They were hooked on the sublimation tees and did not want to switch to the less expensive cotton shirts even though I could have dramatically reduced their cost. These are only a few of my customers but the point is they are extremely comfortable and definately a step up in many peoples opinion. They are not like the old Polyester!!!


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## h2opromedia

this is all great info and I would like to say thanks for everyone who offers all there knowledge and experience to us new to it all. 

I understand that you need a polyester blend shirt to do sublimation printing. So, for example, will a Hanes shirt listed below work good?


5170 Hanes 5.5 Ounce Heavyweight 50/50 Tee 

5.5 ounce 50% cotton, 50% polyester
(mfg. style #5170)
Again, thank you everyone for all your help! 


Best Regards,
Ken


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## TexSub

Ken, This will not work as far as color or vibrancy retention. TRUE sublimation ONLY, repeat, ONLY works on 100% poly. 50/50 WILL fade because the dyes do NOT bond with the cotton fibers. Sublimation ONLY bonds with synthetic materials. The same goes for 60/40......80/20 (I know people will ask) These WILL also fade like the 50/50, just not to the same degree. You also do not need 'special' shirts 'made for sublimation'. 100% polyester....period. Like Charles, I have been sublimating for a few years so I'm not blowing smoke here. (trying to help Charles with his sanity by jumping in here so he doesn't have to . Got your back Charles.) I'm also not trying to be rude, just trying to get to the point


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## blakk hail

Thank to all your input very help full another Q whats the best ink to buy for the vapor ts what brand and where can i get a good price for the epson 1400 and is texprintxp 105 gsm good for what i need it for


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## chard

i know somebody tells that its not possible and others said it could be done..do you mine taking a look on this page?its a sublicotton transfer paper..it can also be use with light or dark, natural or synthethic..Sublimation transfer paper for 100% cotton, lights or darks


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## fakoon1

sublimation ink work with 100% cotton but the print look bad, even with only black color


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## Cjoe Design

There are alot of transfers that do this. You are not actually sublimating on the shirt. How it works is that you sublimate on this special transfer wich is an opaque polymer material. the polymer material is adhered to the shirt. These work fine but they have several drawbacks.

*Expensive transfer
* Heavy handed (you feel the design unlike actual sublimation).
* Can be done with pigment ink for much less money
* you need to weed (trim design) in order to eliminate the white.

Works good for circular or streight edge logos.
Does look nice, Doesn't fade

Cond'e used to sell SubliDark wich worked good but now they sell 2 other products one is by Neenah. Probably close to the same. I probably won't try them for awhile since I still have plenty of Sublidark.
Really only usefull for small order customers that just want a cool novelty or special gift item and doesn't mind paying the extra money you need to tack on for the Sub ink, Transfer, and trimming.

I used it a few times to make gifts for people so $25.00 was not a problem. I think I am still in the hole though after buying the transfer paper.


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## h2opromedia

thanks for all your help and info. Much appreciated. I am so happy I moved into sublimation printing. 

my first few prints all have printed perfectly so far. The quality is awesome!

Now I need to find a good cheap resource for polyester shirts. Any tips or suggestions? 

Also been trying to find some t-shirts with a pocket on them and am not having any success with that.

Thanks again! I can't say it enough to you guys


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## Cjoe Design

I get all my Vapor and SoftLink shirts from Cond'e. They have the best prices. Unfortanately there is no such thing as a cheap polyester shirt.

There is a shirt called SolarShield that is a little less money. They also have a bunch of colors and they are the only place I have ever found that carry 100% poly long sleeve tees. They spec out at 5.3 ounces so they are quite a bit thinner than the Vapors and Softlink. They sublimate great, actually better, no piling whatsoever. My whole family wears them because we made them for the school. I only really use them when I need a specific color or youth long sleeve.


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## Cjoe Design

When I said (only place) I am talking about Youth long sleeve t-shirts. Something for some reason Vapor has totally ignored in thier line. We live at an elevation over 5,000 feet so we wear these things year round.


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## printwear45

Forever Digital Transfer Applications Technology They actually sell a transfer paper (Forever Subli-Dark) that uses sublimation ink but can print on 100% cotton. The only con is that they are not located in U.S. the closes distributor is Canada and Mexico. *Printable materials 
*100% cotton, denim, leather and white polyester fabrics. 
This cold peel transfer paper for light and dark colored textiles made out of 100% cotton can be used like FOREVER Subli-Dark 201. Especially suitable for letters, numbers and logos.
Only suitable for Ink-Jet printers with Sublimation Inks!


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## skdave

Send me a sample too. Can't wait to see it. Call me for my UPS number. smile.


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## printwear45

skdave said:


> Send me a sample too. Can't wait to see it. Call me for my UPS number. smile.


I don't sell these you would have to click on the website that I added and go through them or one of their distributors.
Sorru


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## LuvAmericanStyle

frankiko said:


> if my memory serves me right... i think you can sublimate on 100% cotton now. all you have to do is spray it with that polymer chemical first.
> 
> i can't find now where I read it and there's also a website that sells the chemical.
> i hope somebody will post it here.. especially the website address.
> i haven't tried it myself but if i find that source again i might give a try.


I understand this is replying to an old message but what is the definitive conclusion in 2010 for the original question. Is it possible to use 100% cotton (most notably a black shirt) with sublimation?

Thank you!


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## Riderz Ready

Is it possible to get Rodney to post a sticky that simply says: YOU CAN NOT DYE SUB ON COTTON or DARK SHIRTS?


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## IYFGraphics

LuvAmericanStyle said:


> I understand this is replying to an old message but what is the definitive conclusion in 2010 for the original question. Is it possible to use 100% cotton (most notably a black shirt) with sublimation?
> 
> Thank you!



The short and long answer for 2010 is NO....and for the future, nope probably not ever with the current sublimation inks.

(Mark, I doubt a sticky would make much difference, it's kinda' like the question can I print a photo of a celebrity on a shirt and is it legal to sell it, the question just has to be answered every time as far as I can tell.) 

Hope this helps.


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## LuvAmericanStyle

IYFGraphics said:


> The short and long answer for 2010 is NO....and for the future, nope probably not ever with the current sublimation inks.
> 
> (Mark, I doubt a sticky would make much difference, it's kinda' like the question can I print a photo of a celebrity on a shirt and is it legal to sell it, the question just has to be answered every time as far as I can tell.)
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thank you! So my obvious next question would be:
If not sublimation then, besides screenprinting, is the way to go? Heat xfer? I want that soft hand but also want it to long lasting. 
Cheers,


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## LuvAmericanStyle

On-line Jerseys said:


> Is it possible to get Rodney to post a sticky that simply says: YOU CAN NOT DYE SUB ON COTTON or DARK SHIRTS?


I've just heard so many theories... So absolutely no sub printing on dark colored cotto shirt ?


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## Riderz Ready

LuvAmericanStyle said:


> I've just heard so many theories... So absolutely no sub printing on dark colored cotto shirt ?


I think I will just go jump off the roof now!


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## D.Evo.

LuvAmericanStyle said:


> I've just heard so many theories... So absolutely no sub printing on dark colored cotto shirt ?


No, not going to happen.
The operative word here is DYE. You can not dye black fabric into any other colour. You can not use dye that is made for polyester on cotton. 

Your best bet is to get white ring-spun polyester that looks like cotton, get someone to cut it into panels, print it with your design including black background and sew it into t-shirts. They will look like black cotton t-shirts with full colour print 

Try asking Mark about it - if he didn't jump of the roof yet, he might be able to help


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## D.Evo.

On-line Jerseys said:


> I think I will just go jump off the roof now!


I know how you feel - I've just put the phone down explaining why black nylon paintball jerseys can't be printed with white names...


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## lben

frankiko said:


> if my memory serves me right... i think you can sublimate on 100% cotton now. all you have to do is spray it with that polymer chemical first.
> 
> i can't find now where I read it and there's also a website that sells the chemical.
> i hope somebody will post it here.. especially the website address.
> i haven't tried it myself but if i find that source again i might give a try.


About that chemical. I tried it. The transfer looks perfect, nice & clear, vibrant colors... until you wash it. The chemical washes out and along with that the sublimated image... You can't sublimate on cotton.


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## LuvAmericanStyle

Thanks guys. So my options would be to heat press or screen print on black cotton?
Besides the sew-on trick (hummm)

Sorry for all the newbie questions...


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## IYFGraphics

LuvAmericanStyle said:


> Thanks guys. So my options would be to heat press or screen print on black cotton?
> Besides the sew-on trick (hummm)
> 
> Sorry for all the newbie questions...


Yes that is correct, and you can include DTG as another option, but you can sublimate on 50/50 light garments but you'll get a muted, vintage, washed out look which is ok for some designs/clients.

Hope this helps.


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## edward1210

blakk hail said:


> Thank to all your input very help full another Q whats the best ink to buy for the vapor ts what brand and where can i get a good price for the epson 1400 and is texprintxp 105 gsm good for what i need it for


First I want to add that I tried some poly spray, but the area where you spray the tees, it became yellow, I ask the company from where I got this products, they told me to low the temp and press, I tried various setting and still.
second some where I saw an 85/15 tees, just make a google search.
I would like to here from some one if one day we would be able to do it on 100% using dyesub


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## D.Evo.

LuvAmericanStyle said:


> Besides the sew-on trick (hummm)


I didn't mean sewing sublimated print onto something - sorry if it wasn't quite clear. I meant in the process of t-shirt manufacturing the garment panels should be dye-sub printed before the garment is assembled if you want to achieve black background.


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## nagi

edward1210 said:


> First I want to add that I tried some poly spray, but the area where you spray the tees, it became yellow, I ask the company from where I got this products, they told me to low the temp and press, I tried various setting and still.
> second some where I saw an 85/15 tees, just make a google search.
> I would like to here from some one if one day we would be able to do it on 100% using dyesub


Hi dear,
i did sublimate some Shirts using poly and result was good but i am not gonna say excellent(little faded). 2 washes...Even not having Yellow marking on Tees....


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## lben

nagi said:


> Hi dear,
> i did sublimate some Shirts using poly and result was good but i am not gonna say excellent(little faded). 2 washes...Even not having Yellow marking on Tees....


What was the % of polyester in the shirt to begin with? Was it 100% cotton? 50/50? 65/35?


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## nagi

lben said:


> What was the % of polyester in the shirt to begin with? Was it 100% cotton? 50/50? 65/35?


The shirt is 100% cotton.. just sprayed coating and did let it dry for 10 minutes..ready for Sublimation


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## lben

Your image will wash off as soon as the polymere washes off the fabric. I can't even see the design I printed anymore. What kind of coating did you use?


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## nagi

lben said:


> Your image will wash off as soon as the polymere washes off the fabric. I can't even see the design I printed anymore. What kind of coating did you use?


The poly coating i am using is a Chinese made polycoat for textiles...And washed 2 times still colors having a good visibility.....


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## BroJames

I still have to try it but there has been claim of a Chinese transfer paper for sublimation on 100% cotton. Also another for polycotton blends. If I remember correctly, it is said that the sublimation transfer for polycotton blend is a sublimatiuon paper used for mugs. The only thing that kept me from trying is not having a sublimation printer. Maybe I'll have the sublimation paper printed by someone else and press them to see.


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## lben

BroJames said:


> I still have to try it but there has been claim of a Chinese transfer paper for sublimation on 100% cotton. Also another for polycotton blends. If I remember correctly, it is said that the sublimation transfer for polycotton blend is a sublimatiuon paper used for mugs. The only thing that kept me from trying is not having a sublimation printer. Maybe I'll have the sublimation paper printed by someone else and press them to see.


I do sublimation, so I'll have to find a scrap shirt and try it. It didn't work with the polycoat I used before on a cotton shirt. We'll see. I'll let you know.


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## ebilove

I actually have been trying to find the answer regarding this. It seems that the material does need some type of poly to do a sublimination...Now I wonder if spun poly will work?


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## ForeverKeepsakes

Home was the site that said they had a spray that allowed sublimation to cotton shirts(coated the cotton fibers so it is actually the liquid polyester that is being sublimated but whatever, thought it was worth a shot) I ordered...nothing arrived...I emailed...no response...now my browser warns me that the site may download malicious malware to my system or I may get a virus...I am not going back...I suppose that you could screen print a polyester white panel to the shirt and then sublimate to that but why? It will have the same washout factor as a good transfer like Jet Pro Soft Stretch but take far longer so you won't save any money or time?? Am I wrong?


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## alvinalley

I found out a way to print 100% cotton shirts and it looks good too and wont wash out.


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## charles95405

Sorry Alvin...don't believe...you have not posted any photos of your work either here on at the other thread...your procedure does not ring true...why would you use expensive sublimation ink for a process that can be done either with a good transfer paper or DTG...and cheaper...


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## alvinalley

Before you tell me I am a liar , why dont you try it first. I was just trying to show how to sublimate a cotton shirt. If you dont try it .your loss.


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## GordonM

I've tried this before, and for the heck of it, again last night. Here's the deal...

You get ink dispersion from the sub paper to the cotton. This is to be expected, as the cotton will absorb dye when it's in vapor form. It's not nearly as complete of a transfer as polyester, or a true dye bath, but if you start with heavy ink coverage on high release paper the overall coverage isn't bad.

The problem is holding the dye to the cotton. There are binders in sub ink to keep the dye particles in suspension, but they are likely not sufficient to bound much dye to the cotton. As a test, last night, I tried a couple of transfers on a new 100% cotton Hanes shirt, and got about 75% transfer to the shirt. In all, not bad, though resolution suffered because I had to nearly double the transfer time to make a good print.

Then I washed it, and lost at least 50% of the ink.

In order to prevent ink washing out you need to set the dye with a mordant, a process commonly used in textile manufacture. But there are several problems with using mordants: 

1. Unless you know the makeup of your sub ink, it can be hard to select which one is best. Maybe one of the old standbys, like alum, tannic acid, cream of tartar, or old urine will work. Maybe not. 

2. Applying a mordant post transfer will very likely shift colors. If you need the colors to stay true you'll need to produce a custom profile for the afterchrome version of the shirt. 

3. Even after fixing the dye with a mordant bath, cotton will still lose color because it's really a lousy fabric for dying in the first place! With a 50/50 shirt at least 50% of the dye will retain on the polyester fibers. Since a 50/50 shirt doesn't cost any more than a 100% cotton shirt, shrinks less, and is as wearable, why not just use a 50/50 tee?

I've used sublimation on 100% cotton for some non-washable items I've created, but in the end, I usually find a poly substitute that looks as good, and is often cheaper. For example, instead of printing directly on chiffon using pigment inks, I sub to a while poly crepe available at Jo-Ann's for <$5 yard, and the look is gorgeous. This isn't for washable clothes, but if it were, I know the colors will not run.


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## charles95405

Alvin....please re read my post... I DID NOT call you a liar...I merely said I did not believe...So post some photos before and after washing so we can see what the results are... I have never been able to achieve a commercially viable product with sublimation on cotton...


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## alvinalley

I do this every day and sell them , Dont tell me it dont work. You have to use the paper between the layers of the shirt for it to work; The people that make ink for cotton shirts might not want people tom know this ' You all try this and see for yourself. I know it works for a fact


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## jemmyell

Hi,

Alvinalley, it is very simple. Sublimate a 100% poly shirt with ordinary processing and a 100% cotton shirt using your technique. Wash and dry both shirts 5 times (separately) using an ordinary laundry detergent. Then post side-by-side photos (both shirts in the same photo) of your results in this thread. That will make believers of everybody!

-James


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## rossdv8

Ok, I'm new here, and I've been reading this thread with interest because I found it when I wanted an answer to a simple question. Then I discovered that what I am doing because I didn't know better - cannot be done. But I'll ask on the off chance someone else who does manage to sublimate impregnated cotton has the same drama.

When I print a 100% cotton shirt using sublimation ink, the image sometimes appears reversed on the BACK of the cotton shirt. And yes, it is 100% cotton. I usually wash the shirts in hot (like close to boiling) water with lots of detergent and sodium percarbonate (called NapiSan here). So far the colours are either pastel shades or extremely vibrant depending what I want.

BUT.. No amount of repeated washing seems to shift that colour from the backs. I tried a sheet or two of paper inside the shirts. I tried using a poly spray that I got in the USA that is mixed with water, but it leaves a noticeable area around the edge. So I'm going back to my dry impregnation treatment.

It seems that one step in the dry treatment is impregnating not just the outside of the cotton but the whole shirt.

Any ideas on stopping the sub process migrating? It would be ok if it would wash out. I can live with having the image reversed on the inside of a shirt, but not with it showing on the back.

With 100% poly shirts all i did was slip some paper inside the shirt.

Cheers,

RossD.


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## lben

I have tried sublimating on cotton. It doesn't work. The image doesn't stick to the cotton. So what is this dry impregnation you're referring to? I have never heard of it before. I have heard that sublimation does migrate though I've never experienced it myself. I would suggest maybe putting a teflon sheet in between the layers of fabric. Or if possible, dress your press so that only one layer of fabric is on the press at any time.


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## rossdv8

Ok, for those poor devils like me that are curious about things that can't be done - here are some pics. Let me say first, i'm new here and everything I am doing is experimental. 

I'm using a piezo printer that is not Epson, to avoid clogging. It is A3 format and less than $200 so if I do kill it, I can replace it.

I'm using plain coated paper for my sub work - not dye sub paper (yet).

I'm using the cheapest dye sub ink I can get my hands on until I know this works. Basically that means sourcing it from someone that buys in bulk for a big printer.

I'm experimenting with cotton because I like the accidental 'pastel' even in the bright shirt in the pic.

I am working on the dry mist idea because I had problems with the wet poly spray. The dry mist is not really dry. It is a poly that i am mixing with various quick drying solvents and a catalyst. So far it seems to take the polymer inside amongst the cotton fibres - but that is a guess, not a claim.

Also, I still don't know it the catalyst is carcinogenic, and I definitely wouldn't advise breathing any solvent as it evaporates.

I'm getting initial bleed around lettering and a very very faint tinge of dye in the water for the first wash, but as I mentioned, I am washing immediately after printing with close to boiling water and strong detergents (a mix of dishwashing, clothes washing and hair shampoo) then wringing out and drying in a hot clothes dryer.

That's all folks. I hope someone else is having similar fun.

Edit - Sorry pics are blurry. I didn't realise the camera is out of focus. Pics are taken after 10 washes in hot water. Bleed on back refuses to wash out :-(


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## GordonM

Catalyst for 2-part epoxy contains MEK, a significantly dangerous chemical. If you spray you need to wear a face mask, and ideally do it outside.

It's great you're experimenting, but this has been covered in some other threads over the years, with the net result the same as you're getting. After some washes the polymer gets pretty well washed out, due mainly to the agitation and detergents used in clothes washing. You get far better results with a 50/50 shirt, where after the first wash the remaining color is almost all in the poly fiber, and is there to stay. And after the second wash, there is really no discernible loss of color.

Cotton will uptake a small amount of synthetic dye. It's not really sublimation going on here, rather than just the pigments dying the fabric, the same way any other dye would work. Cotton just doesn't take up much. The converse chemistry is that poly fibers don't readily take up natural dyes. Polyester is very resistant to bath dyes (commonly used with cotton) not at sublimation temperatures, but it will take up some of the color.

The nice thing about 50/50 shirts is that they're often less expensive than 100% cotton, and they actually hold up better under the heat press. Most customers don't mind the blend if you "sell" them on the idea.

You can experiment with adding mordants to the cotton shirt before and/or after dying, but I think you'll find all the effort is not commercially viable for the result you get.

Another option is to find a polyester-based inkjet transfer paper. There are a few people that sell it under different brands, though I have not personally tried any (some of it is REALLY overpriced). Basically it does what you're doing, but in sheet form, rather than a spray. You use it with dye sub inks. When you press the shirt, the polymer coats into the fabric, like JPSS or other inkjet transfer paper. Whether the result is better than JPSS or whatever is up to interpretation and experimentation.


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## rossdv8

I appreciate the help and feedback. I understand that wit cotton we are not sublimating the fabric, but rather, the coating. And I expect I'm not the first to try to get the coating 'inside' rather than 'on' the cotton fibres. 

Th only up side is that the result is outlasting JetPro SS and another soft transfer paper, and for me that is a plus. I am not buying commercial quanities of shirts yet. Only about 100 so far, so cannot take advantage of cotton/poly blends for production.

Also, we live in the tropics. As much as I love the breathable poly shirts i have found especially for yachting, every day use will still mean 100% cotton for most of my prospects.

The catalyst is not MEK. It is something simple, and, like the salt I am using to 'set' the dye, it is an experiment. Using salt to stop the colours running in the first wash seems to have worked nicely in today's shirts - but expecting a customer to do that would be a big ask.

Back to the drawing board. 

Thanks to everyone here for allowing me to throw the ide into a mix that has obviously been stirred before.

Cheers,

RossD.


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## GordonM

rossdv8 said:


> Ilike the salt I am using to 'set' the dye, it is an experiment. Using salt to stop the colours running in the first wash seems to have worked nicely in today's shirts - but expecting a customer to do that would be a big ask.


Salt is a simple mordant. But alas, you have to keep adding it every wash, as it'll wash out. A more permanent natural mordant for cotton is urine. Have a few beers and there should be plenty! 

Nothing (I've ever used) outlasts JPSS when the JPSS is applied correctly. I have shirts that have gone through dozens of washes and with no further ink loss, only the gradual breakdown of the cotton fibers that contribute to the aging of the shirt. I suspect if you're not having longevity with the JPSS the application technique hasn't been perfected yet. It took me a full package of 50 to find the right mix that worked for me (I've iterated these several times in various posts, so I won't repeat here).

Please continue to post your results. Commercially you may find it too labor intensive to get salable goods.

Your catalyst (actually a hardener) may not use MEK specifically, but odds-on-favorite it uses an organic peroxide of some type, and they're all pretty unfriendly.


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## rossdv8

Dumb Questions of the Day..

I guess the reason this thread attracts us newbies is that it is about printing cotton. It has been explained that we can't 'sublimate into' the cotton fibres as we can into the fibres in polyester.

But we can sublimate into a polyester coating 'on' the cotton fibres and that is successful to varying degrees. And we can also sublimate into the poly coating on ceramics and plastics and even metals.

There is obviously 'dye' in the dye sublimation process, because it can be washed out. So the questions are, if there is a component of the sub ink that is actually a dye, why doesn't it 'dye' some of the cotton fibres?

How many washes will a DTG garment stand? and how many washes will these poly coatings stand?

I'm sure some of us newbies are still trying to understand this dye thing.

Cheers,

RossD

btw - I might stop using the salt - definitely bypass the urine alternative. But the beer hmmm....


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## GordonM

rossdv8 said:


> So the questions are, if there is a component of the sub ink that is actually a dye, why doesn't it 'dye' some of the cotton fibres?


I mentioned this above. The dye in sublimation dye is synthetic. Cotton is already a poor receptor to most dyes, and a least receptor to synthetic dye. The inverse is also true; most natural dyes perform poorly on synthetic fibers like polyester. 

During sublimation the dye will transfer to many porous substances. It's a gas, and the dye will deposit to anything it can seep into. It'll go into cotton-based paper, for example, a technique I use to make specialty writing papers for the artist crowd. But the dye tends to permanently bond only with synthetic materials, with a particular affinity to whatever molecular structure is common in certain polyesters (there's more than one kind).

The trick is keeping the dye in the cotton. Most mordants for cotton are added during dying, where they do the most good, though some are pre-treatments and a few post-treatments. There are some commercially available mordants you can get from Dharma Trading. You might look over their online catalog. I've tried a few, but they're all way too time consuming. It really is cheaper to just have the shirt screen or DTG printed!


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## rossdv8

Nice explanation about the dyes. With the results I've had and the help and advice here, I think I'll try to find cotton/poly blends for my cotton customers, and use what I've learned to maybe brighten them.

Great info,

Thanks..


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## Tangy

Good info - thanks!


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## turbo123

Interesting thread.

I have got some Sample plain white 100% Cotton tshirts manufactured to my specs but carrying stock could and time spend with screen press is an issue.

The ease of dye sublimation onto a 100% poly shirt is very attractive and means i could carry a large range of designs and print as needed.

But from research, poly shirts do not seem to be popular for the fashion conscious population. The seem to scream 'Cheap' & 'Smelly'.

I know this has been asked so many times but is there anyway to print on a 100% Cotton shirt using dye sublimation. Or is it a simple no!?

I cold go the heat transfers route but that is the not the result that i want. What about a 50/50 blend? Can anybody show me any samples pictures?


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## lben

turbo123 said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I know this has been asked so many times but is there anyway to print on a 100% Cotton shirt using dye sublimation. Or is it a simple no!?
> 
> I cold go the heat transfers route but that is the not the result that i want. What about a 50/50 blend? Can anybody show me any samples pictures?


The simple answer is NO, you cannot sublimate on cotton. Cotton will not absorb the ink nor will the ink adhere to the cotton fabric. It will look nice until it hits the washer then it completely washes off. So if you sublimate on a 50/50 shirt the dye will adhere to the poly but not to the cotton so your print will be faded.

The higher quantity of poly in a cotton/poly blend the better the retention of the print and the better quality. A 35/65 blend of cotton/poly will look better than a print on a 50/50 blend.


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## turbo123

lben said:


> The simple answer is NO, you cannot sublimate on cotton. Cotton will not absorb the ink nor will the ink adhere to the cotton fabric. It will look nice until it hits the washer then it completely washes off. So if you sublimate on a 50/50 shirt the dye will adhere to the poly but not to the cotton so your print will be faded.
> 
> The higher quantity of poly in a cotton/poly blend the better the retention of the print and the better quality. A 35/65 blend of cotton/poly will look better than a print on a 50/50 blend.


Thanks.

I may look into a 65/35 poly/cotton blend


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## D.Evo.

turbo123 said:


> But from research, poly shirts do not seem to be popular for the fashion conscious population. The seem to scream 'Cheap' & 'Smelly'.


It sounds like you are talking about polyester of 70's. 

It's not cheap and smelly anymore  

More so, there are many polyester fabrics that mimic the look and feel of natural ones, only they are much more hygenic, don't crease, don't shrink, wash easier and do not require ironing, don't stain and breed bacteria like cotton does, and so on. 

So, fashion market IS using this type of fabrics more and more - have you noticed explosion of digital prints on catwalks of the world? A lot of it is done on synthetic fabrics.


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## Riderz Ready

I am with Tania. Always chuckle at the "cheap" poly comments when it comes to shirts. Heck there is nothing cheaper than a cotton shirt and the collars in the vast majority of them is a mess after 6 months.


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## rossdv8

Hi turbo123,
If you read the whole 5 pages of this thread you will understand more about what you were asking, because I asked and the people here explained very well.

The only way you can successfully sublimate a 100% cotton shirt is by saturating the cotton fibres in polyester. Eventually, repeated washing will break that stuff down.

I have several shirts I printed this way. Some 'saturated' with a product called "Poly TW" and allowed to dry, and some 'saturated' with a clear poly spray coating then allowed to dry. Washed before sublimating to make sure the dye was only going to stuff that was wash resistant. After maybe 20 or 30 washes, the early ones are faded a lot, and the later ones simply have a slightly vintage or pastel look.

I wear them. My friends are happy to wear them, but they they are not saleable, especially with the consumer laws you have in USA..

Yes, the finish outlasts JetPro and IronAll transfers in the same number of washes, but there is no way the process makes a nice sharp vibrant print because you are sublimating a dried fluid inside the cotton fibres - NOT sublimating cotton.

So you 'can' sublimate treated cotton with varying degrees of success, but you 'cannot' sublimate 100% cotton.

To be honest, sublimating 50/50 cotton/poly gives a better appearance result, with better wash and wear qualities, and way less hassle.

That said, I still like wearing my 100% shirts, just because... (because it was a fun experiment).

RossD


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## rossdv8

About cotton fabric vs polyester. I live in a tropical climate where it rains for half the year but the rain is around 20/25 celsius. (ok exaggerating only a little bit)

our clothes are usually wet from rain or sweat and sometimes both at once. If you hang cotton to dry it rarely does. After a few days it stinks.

Polyester dries in a couple of hours and if it doesn;t smell right a quick rinse makes it fresh and nice.

The new polyester shirts - even cheap ones from chain stores - are usually a wicking breathable material.

Cheers,

RossD.


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## turbo123

Super thanks for all the info, i have my manufacturer looking into a 100% poly shirt and into a 65% 35% shirt

When i receive them in a probaly 2/3 weeks i will test them and let you guys know how i get on .

Thank again,
Fab


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## rossdv8

I plan to do some poly/cotton shirts when i have the chance, because I like wearing cotton. The cotton shirts I sublimated into are wearing far better than the jpss and ironall with the same number of washes. Actually the subbed saturated cotton is far, far better because there is no fading at all and of course, no hand. 

The flip side though is that I should get the same amount of faded look from a 50/50 poly cotton and almost the same soft comfort as 100% cotton. Combined with no hand.

Not bright and vibrant like poly, or bright like heat transfer, but still permanent like 100% poly.

And not messy like poly saturating the cotton.

I can see no logical reason to sublimate saturated cotton, other that 'because we can'.

That said, I am still doing it - just for fun.


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## CostaRica

I love mixed fabrics and of course you can't go wrong with good old cotton but, personally I can't stand the feel of poly.

I know there are very good quality synthetic fabrics that are high tech/expensive stuff. It still feels cheap and awful to me.

All due respect, that's why I'm not into sublimation: can't sell a product I would not wear.


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## lemoid

jagojoli said:


> Hi,
> I have tshirt that I screen printed with a liquid so now I can print a sublimation ink on a tshirt cotton.
> It works well and sell very well in here.


I hope you can share what liquid is that


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## eric pei

frankiko said:


> if my memory serves me right... i think you can sublimate on 100% cotton now. all you have to do is spray it with that polymer chemical first.
> 
> i can't find now where I read it and there's also a website that sells the chemical.
> i hope somebody will post it here.. especially the website address.
> i haven't tried it myself but if i find that source again i might give a try.


Hola.... In mexico here we are succesfully using sublimination techniques on 100% cotton fabrics. The polymer used is uniden pegamento which is a an acrylic polymer adhesive (same as they use for cement additive) that dries into the fibres of the fabric. You have to be careful to only spray the application área as any outside that will leave a llight off color. The polymere base glue is first mixed 100% with wáter then 35% again prior to application. 
Apply one coat and wait 4 hours. Apply a second coat and wait overnoght. Heat 6 seconds prior to printing. Use plain paper under and on top of the print and also stick proof paper last. It has proven very succesful here as cotton tee shirts are much cjheaper tan polyester. Takes a bit of playing with to get used to, but Works. Hope it helps.


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## CharlestheGuru

Hello Friends, I use a paper called Yellow Line Sold by World-Paper this works for me doing sublimation on light colored t-shirts, Place an order before with them and and I ask the guy at the costumer service and he pin point this paper for sublimation on cotton I use a 50-50 and works like a charm, I hope it might help some one. Cheers


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## DAIDLI

I am new here and I called Pro World and Stahls Transfer Express. They told me that their transfers can be used on 100% cotton or 50/50 blend t shirts. However, I have not used their products. If someone in this forum have experience, please let us know. Thanks.
David


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## DAIDLI

Have you washed those shirts yet? I am just curious how the color ink will stay in the cotton.
Please let us know.
Thanks.
David


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## freebird1963

DAIDLI said:


> I am new here and I called Pro World and Stahls Transfer Express. They told me that their transfers can be used on 100% cotton or 50/50 blend t shirts. However, I have not used their products. If someone in this forum have experience, please let us know. Thanks.
> David


Those aren't dye sub transfers those are plastisol/screen printed transfers. Two different beasts.


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## freebird1963

DAIDLI said:


> Have you washed those shirts yet? I am just curious how the color ink will stay in the cotton.
> Please let us know.
> Thanks.
> David


Dye sub ink will NOT bond to cotton so it will wash out. If its a 50/50 shirt then you will lose approximately 50 percent of the dye sub ink.

If you do some deeper research in these forums you will find the answers.


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## DAIDLI

Thanks a lot for your reply.
I thought the plastisol transfers will stay better in the cotton t-shirts. But it is more like oil paint and do not feel like the softness of sbulimation transfers. Is that true?


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## GordonM

Plastisol transfers can have a "jelly" or "rubber" feel to them. Depends on the coverage -- the amount of the inks they put onto the transfer paper. A heavily-covered piece of art could very well have heavy, rubbery feel to it.

If it's simple one or two color art, another approach is using a cutter/plotter and heat transfer vinyl. There are thin vinyls that have a much lighter touch than plastisol, or the regular "sports" vinyls of the type they use on jerseys. But even here, a large design with a lot of vinyl is going to have a heavier feel to it. If you want to avoid the heaviness, and are printing on polyester, the best bet is sublimation.


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## GordonM

eric pei said:


> Hola.... In mexico here we are succesfully using sublimination techniques on 100% cotton fabrics. The polymer used is uniden pegamento which is a an acrylic polymer adhesive (same as they use for cement additive) that dries into the fibres of the fabric.


As with most any polymer spray, this will work to a certain extent, but no polymer will bond completely to cotton after many washings. 

But the larger problem is that here in the US there are laws regarding what can be applied to a t-shirt, especially for garments intended for those 12 and under. The materials used in the shirt, and its decoration, must be lab tested for certain kinds of chemicals and materials, such as phthalates, lead, arsenic, mercury, and other heavy metals. 

The problem with industrial coatings is that their manufacture is not carefully controlled, because it's not meant for personal use. It may very well have traces of lead, copper, and various heavy metals due to the production equipment used. Phthalates are a common ingredient in polymers, acting as a bonding agent, and providing a permanent rubbery consistency.

So while there are these partial solutions for subbing onto cotton, I am not aware of any of them that have been through the rigorous testing needed for sale in the US as t-shirt decorations, particularly to consumers 12 and under. As it costs tens of thousands for a single test, most of us don't have the ability to conduct the research needed to legally sell these products here.


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## Artcor23

kingna-tive7 said:


> can i use sublimation ink on 100% cotton? ive been told that i cant only 100% poly, is this true. they told me i had to use durablast ink's. let me know because i was gonna buy the epson 1400, but it only takes sublimation ink and not durablast. enlighten me!!!!!!!11


Or you can sublimate on poly,cut it and then patch it on your cotton item.


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## sindhu g n

Hi,
sublimation ink on 100% cotton is impossible.but you can try with 50/50


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## 8th Day

I mainly use 100% poly Vapor Ts for sublimation (because there is still nothing that comes close to the feel and print you get from them), but have had good results from Gildan Softstyle Ts in heathered colors (their heathers are 35 cotton 65 poly).

50/50s wash out really bad, but the 35/65 mix still looks really good half a dozen washes later.


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## freebird1963

sindhu g n said:


> Hi,
> sublimation ink on 100% cotton is impossible.but you can try with 50/50


Not quite true. The new Reveal S paper allows you to do it.
And ACP has a paper called Fab U trans lite that allows it.
Its not "true" sublimation but you can use sub inks on cotton.


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## Lees Custom

Thank you! Just saw a video on that a friend sent me and I was calling BS on it but figured I would jump over here to see what others were saying.


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## cochise

Go to Conde.com and look up Reveal 5. There are plenty of videos in the Conde site.

It works, I have used it and I am happy with the durability and color.
I use Cobra ink and Epson WF 1100. No IC profile needed.

It is simple to use and if the instructions are followed to the letter, it creates a very nice product.


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## greenestarr45

Just as a side note, ACP technologies, (ACP Technologies Sublimation Solutions - inks, printers, blanks), used to sell a 100% cotton sublimation paper for dark and light applications. I haven't checked in a while if they still sell it, but this paper along with a vinyl cutter that can do automatic contour cutting might be another option that you could explore.


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## sinGN

Hi,
Its not possible to use sublimation ink with 100% cotton.


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## cochise

Yes it is. There is a new format paper that I have tested.

Go to Conde.com and look up Reveal 5. There are plenty of videos in the Conde site.

It works, I have used it and I am happy with the durability and color.
I use Cobra ink and Epson WF 1100. No IC profile needed.

It is simple to use and if the instructions are followed to the letter, it creates a very nice product. 



sinGN said:


> Hi,
> Its not possible to use sublimation ink with 100% cotton.


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## sinGN

Hi,
Sublimation ink will not work on 100% cotton or 50/50. it is better for 100% polyester material.


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## cochise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LqdLTukWA0


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## sinGN

Hi,
sublimation ink is not best for 100% cotton.


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## rossdv8

GordonM said:


> As with most any polymer spray, this will work to a certain extent, but no polymer will bond completely to cotton after many washings...


You and I have pointed out the above numerous times, but I'm just updating this about 4 years later (now 2017) to say the image sublimated into treated 100% cotton that is shown in photos posted in this forum, still looks pretty much the same 4 years and many hundreds of hot washes and hot tumble dries later. 

Yes, it loses some fluffy lint, and the raised fibres give it a 'distressed' look. But a quick mist with water from a trigger spray bottle and the colours are as vibrant as new.

And of course, as we have both said due to 1, the cost of treating cotton shirts (cost in 'time', not only in money) and 2, the laws regarding chemicals and clothing, it is fun as a proof of concept - but still doesn't seem top be commercially viable, even after all these years.


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## allnatural

Hi all.
As some of you may know, I've been talking about G7 formula to coat cotton shirts and hoodies to sublimate. After running productions for 1.5 years using this product, I can testify that the formula is both cost effective and keeps good color quality.


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