# any other color than white for sublimation?



## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

ive noticed that the only color offered for sublimation is white. why is that? is it not possible to put that polyester coating on any other color than white? i can understand why black is not used..but what if i wanted to sublimate black letters onto a red shirt? or yellow shirt? or pink shirt? im sure there should be no problem with the black showing if printed on those colors. or does anyone know of a company that does make colored shirts for sublimation?


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

Check Vapor Apparel - there are a lot of colours suitable for sublimation.

Black design will look quite effective on red, but most other colours won't show very well.
When printing on yellow, pink, blue, light green you are not limited to black letters - actually, most of the colours will come out nice and bright.

Good luck!


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## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

thanx D.evo. im new to this sublimation thing and i was told white was the only thing i could sublimate on. ill check out Vapor Apparel real soon. as a matter of fact ill do it right now. thanx again.


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## galaxy2006 (Jul 28, 2006)

go to nova chrome they can explain the colors they say only white and pastel colors for sublimation. I just went over to it.
ginny


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## Eastdsm (Mar 10, 2007)

Another suggestion, while the quality isn't as good but I have done it many times in the past is to use a 50/50 red shirt for black ink. The edges of the black isn't as detailed and it does look a little faded, but it is a lot more cost effective, and if you pass that savings onto the customer, a lot of times they will not care. You can get a shirt for $1.50 instead of $4-6. 

Also, you can get away ordering one or two at a time more cost effectively if you order a lot of shirts for platisol transfers. We order from S&S Activewear 2-3 times per week so then it's easier to toss on one or two 50/50's. Another thing that S&S has that I used that worked great were the JerZee MOVE moisture management shirts. They have red, ash, royal blue, and white. Black works good on their red shirts. Also a little cheaper than the vapors/softlinks, but they are a little thinner.


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

Miguel,

Experiment, experiment experiment.....lots of cool, exciting , exclusive, and financially lucrative opportunities to be hand with stepping outside the norms of a standard.

I have witnessed and been liaison to some really cool stuff within the sublimation industry that wouldn't have ever been discovered if stepping outside of WHITE was the 3rd rail 

Jae'


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## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

thanks for the info everybody. 

hey Chase..you mentioned using 50/50 blends...have you (or anyone else reading this) ever used 100% polyester t-shirts for sublimation? would using 100% polyester t-shirts be the same as using the tshirts with the 100% polyester layer over cotton?


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

Same result imaging wise Miguel... 

100% poly in its raw form is itchy, however, the 100% poly performance fabrics currently on the market are quite comfortable I.M.O.

For T-shirts (non-performance), the cotton lining makes the standard shirt quite comfy.

Hope this helps,

Jae'

UPDATE.....I replied before it hit me that this wasn't an open forum question...........no disrespect Chase


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## Eastdsm (Mar 10, 2007)

No problem  . I like the 100% outer poly 100% inner cotton ones for their comfort, although, I believe that the 100% poly ones definitely have a better look. The Hanes Softlink inner/outer ones seem to have a little bit of cotton still sticking through the polyester which makes it look a little more faded than the 100% poly in my opinion. You can only tell when holding them next to each other, though. For me the Hanes has had a higher chance of error, too. I've never messed up a 100% poly but for some reason I've messed up a few Hanes due to very slight paper movement causing the solid black to be faded around the edges. I have just been using JerZee's Moisture Management "MOVE" shirts and they have worked well. Not had any complaints. I do like Vapor Apparels T's better, but, the MOVE shirts can be ordered from my main clothing vendor, S&S, in any quantities for a good price. To get Vapor Apparels, I must order them from a special vendor, and it's not cost efficient unless I order in stock of them because of shipping. I prefer not stocking much.

So in my opinion, the Hanes Softlinks are more comfortable, but the quality isn't quite as good as the 100% polyester(but still very good looking). What I would do is if the shirt has a lot of vivid colors/designs OR lots of solid black, use the 100% poly shirts. If it's other than that, use a Hanes Softlink.


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## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

thanks jae. and dont worry about the "open forum" thing. the more testimonials, opinions, suggestions, etc. i get..the better. )

one more thing..how do you guys feel about the using prep sheets for sublimation (like CLC)? i have a tons of light colored cotton shirts i use for silk screening and wondered if using the "prep sheet" method could allow me to use these shirts for sublimation? maybe i should open a new thread on this subject...hmm yeah i will. heh heh. thanks again for everything guys. this place rocks!


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## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

thanks again chase. your right about the hanes soft l'inks. ive ruined two already due to very slight paper movement. ill look into the jerzees as you suggested. my goal here is saving money while maintaining quality and you guys have been very helpful.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Hey Jae & others, have you also tried the "hybrid" subli-dark paper?


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## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

vctradingcubao said:


> Hey Jae & others, have you also tried the "hybrid" subli-dark paper?


hey Byron..do you mean the subli-dark transfers manufactured by the German company "Forever"? here is part of an article i read:

"Forever, a German transfer paper manufacturer, has developed a line of transfer papers called Forever Subli-Dark, which enables decorators to sublimate on dark, 100% cotton garments. Sublimation inks transform from solid to gas when heat is applied. This paper has a chemical composition that allows the sublimation ink to diffuse through a white, opaque layer and sublimate into the upper transparent layer. This means that the actual sublimation process takes place between different layers of the Subli-Dark paper, making for vibrant prints and wash-fast designs, according to the company."

what i like about it is that you no longer have to seperate the thin printed layer from the backing paper like you would with inkjet transfer paper for dark colors. and theres no need for a parchment sheet either since your pressing directly onto the transfer paper as you would a sub transfer for white shirts. 

what i didnt like is that you still have to cut out around the edge of the design. not good if you have an intricate design. 

what they didnt mention was what kind of "hand" or "feel" the shirts had after pressing. 

ill see if i can get my hands on a couple of sample sheets from somewhere.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Yes, Miguel, that's what I was referring to. I have some of those papers but have'nt tried it yet due to some other jobs. I'd appreciate it if you can post your reviews later.


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## mrpintor (Apr 30, 2007)

vctradingcubao said:


> Yes, Miguel, that's what I was referring to. I have some of those papers but have'nt tried it yet due to some other jobs. I'd appreciate it if you can post your reviews later.


hey byron..you say you have some samples of the subli-dark? where did you get them from? ive looked around and cant seem to find them. only place i spotted them were pretty pricey...around 3.25 each sheet. maybe you can let us know how your samples turn out? when you have time to test them of course..heh heh.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

I ordered direct from them, 'coz I'm "suppose" to be their distributor in the Philippines. In the states, you can ask iccink.com, or Conde for their price, or other sub-distributor. Yes, the paper's are expensive. I hope to test them very soon, but I'm poor in "storytelling". SOmetimes, i find it very difficult to find the right english words to explain things.


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## Eastdsm (Mar 10, 2007)

Are we getting off topic a little bit here? Are you guys referring to an ink jet transfer paper or a sublimation transfer paper?

Also, I just tried multiple colors on a brown and a green shirt from vapor apparel. The red/blue on the green turned out perfect as well as the green on the brown turned out perfect. Very impressed with the quality of putting a "medium" darkness color on a different colored shirt. Vapor Apparel is the way to go. Now only if S&S Activewear or someone would stock them so I wouldn't have to stock a lot of it. 

Oh well! Payoff is worth it. I plan on ordering like 30-40 of L/XL/2XL here as soon as all my customers pay up!


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Eastdsm said:


> Are we getting off topic a little bit here? Are you guys referring to an ink jet transfer paper or a sublimation transfer paper?


It's still about sublimation transfer paper.


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## Eastdsm (Mar 10, 2007)

Cool. I may have to buy some of those papers to try out then.


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## chonkymonky (Apr 1, 2007)

vctradingcubao said:


> It's still about sublimation transfer paper.


actually i think the original subject was about whether or not there were any other (tshirt) colors available for sublimation besides white. i know Jerzees brand and other 100% polyester tshirts can be found in many colors. i have plenty of white soft l'inks...problem is that most of my customers have been asking for dark colors like navy blue, forest green, black, brown etc etc...colors that cannot be sublimated. 

i know of a transfer paper made by a company named "Forever" that is made for dark shirts. from what i know...it has two layers..a white layer and a clear layer. the ink penetrates and sits between the clear and the white layer. the white layer serves as a "base" on which the ink is printed..so the ink never touches the fabric of the shirt itself. then you just cut the design out..and press. no need to peel the layers from the backing with this paper like you would with other transfers made for dark colors. i hear this paper is much thinner as well..so you have less "hand" as you do with other dark transfers. unfortuanately you still have to cut around the edges of the design..not good if you wanna print complex images on a dark shirt. 

chromablast has a system to print on 100% cotton shirts..which is great because of all the colors youd be able to choose from then. for those that dont mind investing in an entire new set up (printer, inks, paper).


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

chonkymonky said:


> i know of a transfer paper made by a company named "Forever" that is made for dark shirts. from what i know...it has two layers..a white layer and a clear layer. the ink penetrates and sits between the clear and the white layer. the white layer serves as a "base" on which the ink is printed..so the ink never touches the fabric of the shirt itself. then you just cut the design out..and press. no need to peel the layers from the backing with this paper like you would with other transfers made for dark colors. i hear this paper is much thinner as well..so you have less "hand" as you do with other dark transfers. unfortuanately you still have to cut around the edges of the design..not good if you wanna print complex images on a dark shirt.


The Subli-dark is really nothing more than a very expensive opaque inkjet transfer. I see no benefit from the extra cost. The main benefits of sublimated garments is that the fabric is dyed, no hand, and it remains breathable. You lose all of those benefits with Subli-dark.



chonkymonky said:


> chromablast has a system to print on 100% cotton shirts..which is great because of all the colors youd be able to choose from then. for those that dont mind investing in an entire new set up (printer, inks, paper).


Chromablast does not print on any more colors than a sublimation setup or the inkjet paper for lights. You must use Chromablast on the same light colored shirts, except they are 100% cotton instead of 100% poly. That's the only advantage to it over sublimation. And the hand is more for Chromablast than for sublimation. And you also need to cut out the image for Chromablast if you don't want that clear box around your image (supposedly washes out after a few washes). But I'm not about to give my customer a new shirt with a clear box around the image and tell them it should wash out after 3 or 4 washes.


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## chonkymonky (Apr 1, 2007)

rusty said:


> The Subli-dark is really nothing more than a very expensive opaque inkjet transfer. I see no benefit from the extra cost. The main benefits of sublimated garments is that the fabric is dyed, no hand, and it remains breathable. You lose all of those benefits with Subli-dark.
> 
> 
> Chromablast does not print on any more colors than a sublimation setup or the inkjet paper for lights. You must use Chromablast on the same light colored shirts, except they are 100% cotton instead of 100% poly. That's the only advantage to it over sublimation. And the hand is more for Chromablast than for sublimation. And you also need to cut out the image for Chromablast if you don't want that clear box around your image (supposedly washes out after a few washes). But I'm not about to give my customer a new shirt with a clear box around the image and tell them it should wash out after 3 or 4 washes.


so you still have to cut around the edges with the chromablast transfers? that sucks. hey rusty..whats your take on the duracotton method for printing on cotton? i read about the horrors of colors migrating to other garments that come in contact with the printed tshirt..and how sometimes this wont happen for a couple of weeks after the tshirt is printed. 

im thinking polyester is the only way to go for a good quality sublimated shirt. and in my opinion..opaque transfers for dark shirts should be called "decals" and not sublimation. since your basically just applying a sticker on the shirt..heh heh. 

i use opaque alot when i make shirts with large images of hip hop artists on the front. the heavy feel of opaque transfers is actually prefered for those shirts. i sublimated one shirt (soft l'ink) for a customer with the image of a rapper...he asked me why he couldnt feel the image. so i had to make him another shirt (white cotton) using an opaque transfer.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

chonkymonky said:


> so you still have to cut around the edges with the chromablast transfers? that sucks.


It's up to you whether or not you cut out the image, but it will leave a visible clear box if you don't. They say the box will wash out after several washes, but that doesn't really do me any good as somebody trying to sell a new shirt. If I were selling "Used Shirts", then it would be great . But I'm not. And I'm not going to give it my customer with a clear box around it.



chonkymonky said:


> hey rusty..whats your take on the duracotton method for printing on cotton? i read about the horrors of colors migrating to other garments that come in contact with the printed tshirt..and how sometimes this wont happen for a couple of weeks after the tshirt is printed.


sorry, I have no experience with any of the DuraCotton products.



chonkymonky said:


> im thinking polyester is the only way to go for a good quality sublimated shirt. and in my opinion..opaque transfers for dark shirts should be called "decals" and not sublimation. since your basically just applying a sticker on the shirt..heh heh.


Exactly. I won't sell a shirt with an opaque trafsfer for a dark shirt. I'm not into the "decal" shirts, and I don't want my company associated with that type of product.



chonkymonky said:


> i use opaque alot when i make shirts with large images of hip hop artists on the front. the heavy feel of opaque transfers is actually prefered for those shirts. i sublimated one shirt (soft l'ink) for a customer with the image of a rapper...he asked me why he couldnt feel the image. so i had to make him another shirt (white cotton) using an opaque transfer.


That's funny! I guess there IS a market for the bulletproof transfers after all . Maybe I'm losing business by not doing them... oh well


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## chonkymonky (Apr 1, 2007)

rusty said:


> It's up to you whether or not you cut out the image, but it will leave a visible clear box if you don't. They say the box will wash out after several washes, but that doesn't really do me any good as somebody trying to sell a new shirt. If I were selling "Used Shirts", then it would be great . But I'm not. And I'm not going to give it my customer with a clear box around it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh yes..out here in southern california i get requests all the time for that kind of shirt. i use blue grid transfers which seem to hold up pretty well. i made one for myself few months ago...no fading or cracking yet...and this is after about five washes. i used jetwear opaque before and they cracked and faded badly after only two washes.


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## QualityIDsJim (Jun 4, 2007)

Check out Johnson Plastics Webb Distributors, They have a wide range of colors including red and yellow.

Hope this helps.
Jim Koepsell



mrpintor said:


> ive noticed that the only color offered for sublimation is white. why is that? is it not possible to put that polyester coating on any other color than white? i can understand why black is not used..but what if i wanted to sublimate black letters onto a red shirt? or yellow shirt? or pink shirt? im sure there should be no problem with the black showing if printed on those colors. or does anyone know of a company that does make colored shirts for sublimation?


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## icyjay (Apr 4, 2007)

What are you paying for the JerZee shirts? My local supplier here in Houston are charging about the same price as the Hanes Softlink. Are you able to use the JerZee's shirts in different colors and having good success?


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## Eastdsm (Mar 10, 2007)

The jerzees are 3.74 for white i think from ssactivewear.com Figure about 25 cents for shipping, thats about $4. The main benefit isn't even price necessarily as much as the fact that I order from S&S 2-3 times per week for shirts for our custom orders. The nice part is that I can tag those Jerzee MOVEs along with those orders, that way I don't have to keep a large stock of them. I keep 10 L and 10 XL and 5 XXL or so on hand at any time, then just order what I sell as needed to keep the stock about that amount.


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## gadget (Jul 16, 2007)

to prevent paper movement on fabric...you can use heat tape...but make sure the heat tape is for fabric...i use a green heat tape for fabric and another for hardgoods. Sometimes i use a spray to the transfer...a slight mist holds it in place.. however i minimize the use of the spray can because the overspray ( that you will not contain) get all over and then i find sticky table tops..shelves...books etc. good luck, allen aka gadget


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