# Online T-shirt design tool



## EGS

I gotta tell ya I am pretty disappointed with all of the T-shirt design tools on the market. With the exception of Advanced Artists FREE open source tool. It has not even gotten started yet and it's already looking good. I'm anxious to see how it shakes out.

I will first start off by saying it has been proven that an online design tool can be accomplished. If you don't think so, visit Custom T-Shirts - Design Your Own T-Shirts Online - Free Shipping! and play with theirs. I ordered a shirt last month and it was as seamless as it gets. I uploaded my company logo in Ai, it looked great on the design tool and when I got my shirt it was spot on. Yes, I understand I am giving props to my competition but hey, if the accolades apply...

I'm not sure the market has defined where this tool will fit in to the industry yet.

With Inksoft you have to pull teeth to upload a company logo. Yes they have a great tutorial on how to prepare your artwork in order to be successful, but really? Come on.......How many customers are going to go thru that to order a shirt? They can pop on over to the above mentioned and be done in the same time as it takes for them to contact the person who designed their logo - if they even know who it is - I'm tired just thinking about it. The band director at "your name" high school with their school mascot logo is not going to go and get their logo optimized. Period!

Deco does have a good idea when you upload your logo it askes you how many colors are in it. At least the price quoted to your customer will be correct even if there are other issues with Deco's pricing model.

As you can tell, I am FRUSTRATED at where the industry is. Partially because all of the companies are charging thru the nose like their products are "ready to go" when in fact they are far from it. Advanced artist "openTshirts.org" seems to be the only level headed business man who wants to make sure the product is ready to go...and even then it's FREE. I will tell you, however, if I could find a solution that works....I will pay for it.

Who created custom inks??? That's the one I want....for now.

Anyway, If you are looking to jump into this new area of our industry, I STRONGLY encourage you to first define how you are going to use the design tool in regards to your business platform. How are your customers going to use it? And then, make sure it delivers what you expect!!!!

I would love to here from anyone who is using a tool, which one, and how it works.

I called an inksoft "customer" to inquire how they liked it, and within an hour inksoft called me and said...."We heard you talked to our customer so and so." 
What's up with that??? What customer would call the company and advise them that someone called to get a reference???? A bit weird if you ask me.


Best of luck to ALL the companies and their efforts, and to all the business owners looking to utilize them.


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## Mabuzi

I have used RSK tech and keep using it but found issues with all the suppliers tools out there. It was a lot easier to setup than some of the other big operators out there.
I have not used it for screen printing or embroidery especialy around colour counters.

Thanks for the heads up on openTshirts.org.


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## AdvancedArtist

EGS said:


> I gotta tell ya I am pretty disappointed with all of the T-shirt design tools on the market. With the exception of Advanced Artists FREE open source tool. It has not even gotten started yet and it's already looking good. I'm anxious to see how it shakes out.
> 
> I will first start off by saying it has been proven that an online design tool can be accomplished. If you don't think so, visit Custom T-Shirts - Design Your Own T-Shirts Online - Free Shipping! and play with theirs. I ordered a shirt last month and it was as seamless as it gets. I uploaded my company logo in Ai, it looked great on the design tool and when I got my shirt it was spot on. Yes, I understand I am giving props to my competition but hey, if the accolades apply...
> 
> I'm not sure the market has defined where this tool will fit in to the industry yet.
> 
> With Inksoft you have to pull teeth to upload a company logo. Yes they have a great tutorial on how to prepare your artwork in order to be successful, but really? Come on.......How many customers are going to go thru that to order a shirt? They can pop on over to the above mentioned and be done in the same time as it takes for them to contact the person who designed their logo - if they even know who it is - I'm tired just thinking about it. The band director at "your name" high school with their school mascot logo is not going to go and get their logo optimized. Period!
> 
> Deco does have a good idea when you upload your logo it askes you how many colors are in it. At least the price quoted to your customer will be correct even if there are other issues with Deco's pricing model.
> 
> As you can tell, I am FRUSTRATED at where the industry is. Partially because all of the companies are charging thru the nose like their products are "ready to go" when in fact they are far from it. Advanced artist "openTshirts.org" seems to be the only level headed business man who wants to make sure the product is ready to go...and even then it's FREE. I will tell you, however, if I could find a solution that works....I will pay for it.
> 
> Who created custom inks??? That's the one I want....for now.
> 
> Anyway, If you are looking to jump into this new area of our industry, I STRONGLY encourage you to first define how you are going to use the design tool in regards to your business platform. How are your customers going to use it? And then, make sure it delivers what you expect!!!!
> 
> I would love to here from anyone who is using a tool, which one, and how it works.
> 
> I called an inksoft "customer" to inquire how they liked it, and within an hour inksoft called me and said...."We heard you talked to our customer so and so."
> What's up with that??? What customer would call the company and advise them that someone called to get a reference???? A bit weird if you ask me.
> 
> 
> Best of luck to ALL the companies and their efforts, and to all the business owners looking to utilize them.


EGS frist thanks for your comments and insight. One of the things that has to be taken into account is the magnatude of complexity with a system like this. 

They are very complex..

First you have the front end design studio..

We all know the user is not a designer and it has to be simple. We have struggled with that to be honest and I have ideas to make even more simple.

Then you have the admin...

Products
Art
Designs
Fonts
Orders
Shopping Cart
Product Colors
Product Sizes
Orders with multiple Color Garments

The list goes on..

Then the web

Cross browser compatibility
SEO
Integration

The list goes one

Your Laptop or Show Room

We went open source because in my thinking it is the only way.. How do you need to integrate? HTML, an open source CMS, Need it on your laptop? Want it in your show room? With WAMP and other virtual servers you can even put opentshirts on your laptop and use it with clients without having to go online. Need it on 15 sales reps desktops no problem install wamp or another virtual server and your good to go..

Want to spin it into your own idea.. its free open source do what you will.

I saw the complixety before we started but I looked into what is really needed.. what is the full spectrum of use potential to the end user? How can we open up the product to enable the market in as many arenas as possible?

Got a new sales rep has no idea how to design.. put OpenTshirts on their laptop they select a product, browse design ideas and close the sale interactively thru a local host connection. The client is blown away.. 

Need to compete with locker.net online? 

Open Source was the only way to do it...

Free yes.. but worth so much more than free.


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## EGS

@TOM - I think the MOST important element of an online design tool is the ability to upload their company logo or artwork. This is where it shines or fizzles.

Companies like CI or Zazzle have got it down.

The ability to convert to transparent background is crucial. I understand that the computer may not be able to identify how many colors are in the logo so it is CRUCIAL to allow the customer to input the color choice. I would even add a disclaimer that if a different color count is determined by an art department that price adjustments will be made.

I'm very impressed with your work so far and plan on implementing it once you have worked thru the different releases.

Thanks again for your contribution to our industry!


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## AdvancedArtist

EGS said:


> @TOM - I think the MOST important element of an online design tool is the ability to upload their company logo or artwork. This is where it shines or fizzles.
> 
> Companies like CI or Zazzle have got it down.
> 
> The ability to convert to transparent background is crucial. I understand that the computer may not be able to identify how many colors are in the logo so it is CRUCIAL to allow the customer to input the color choice. I would even add a disclaimer that if a different color count is determined by an art department that price adjustments will be made.
> 
> I'm very impressed with your work so far and plan on implementing it once you have worked thru the different releases.
> 
> Thanks again for your contribution to our industry!


We are working that module and I have been thinking to put that disclaimer in there and in the shopping cart also. Just in case.

And you are right that is a very important function in the system.

At the moment I setting product images and files from S&S Active Wear to get the catalog preloaded for the V1 release which I am try to get out the door on monday. Mask, Invert Mask, Create Mask from Channel etc etc etc


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## shanetuttle

Some good info here, I am going to be starting a company soon and I want something like what inksoft or CI offers.


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## printingray

I think online t-shirt designing tool is one of the best way to increase the sales and as well traffic at any site which make it a brand!


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## ConCon

Best way to set up your site without losing money and testing the market... 

FatCow (or other cheap host account), WordPress, WP-eCommerce Plugin, Openshirts.org in i-frame hosted on another subdomain. 

Keep the design/theme simple until it makes some money... Now get a premium theme... Make some more money and get a freelancer to trick it out how you want it... 

By waiting to spend a lot of money on customization, you'll get the valuable customer feedback that will help you know what to focus on when you're ready to really invest in your website. 

*With out feedback ITS A SHOT IN THE DARK! Keep it cheap and test... Get a guy like me to set up a simple store and make some money while you gather feedback first.


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## AdvancedArtist

Testing the market is a good idea.. But if you are an established local company without a serious web presence I would suggest you get serious about that. The nationals are after your local customer’s and we have all seen the clients walking in with designs from online designers. For everyone that walks in the door how many do you suppose actually ordered from a national?

The online design tools are your barrier and you need to get one set it up and market it. You need your local customers looking to your site to design online not the nationals. You need your local customers looking to you and you need to provide them with the solutions for art, designs, templates and marketing both online and off line.

Short of that the nationals are going the crush you in the coming years just as Wal-Mart has crushed small business not just in the US but in many other places. The game of custom apparel is changing but the good news is you can complete you just have to get in the game and take it seriously.


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## LiveArt

AdvancedArtist said:


> ... sorry skipped
> 
> The online design tools are your barrier and you need to get one set it up and market it. You need your local customers looking to your site to design online not the nationals. You need your local customers looking to you and you need to provide them with the solutions for art, designs, templates and marketing both online and off line.
> ....


That's fully true and I'll agree to that. Printer companies have to care on customers first and drive the traffic to the online design tool, not the vice versa. The online design tool won't bring customer to site on itself.


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## allhamps

I just want an online design tool that I can ADD to my existing website, with MY designs, and the items/apparel that I offer for decoration. I have spent countless hours talking and researching design tools and it always fizzles out because everyone is offering a "e-commerce package". I don't want another website, I don't want to pay a monthly/annual fee and then have to pay again for someone to "see if we can configure this to be used with your existing site. I don't want pre-packaged clip art, I don't want a tool that HAS to use a specific shopping cart, so it's actually a separate website within my website. Oh well, maybe one day


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## Mabuzi

We at Mabuzi use RSK. 
It opens in your website as a iframe keeping all the features and header and footers, you don't pay a monthly prescription and you only upload the artwork you want and not all those crappy clip art files. 

It also allows customizable templates which is really handy.

You can also use your own shopping cart, by arrangement instead of Paypal.

It allows your own garments and has a catalogue feature and multi-shops at no extra cost.

This is what we have for custom t-shirts:Online T-shirt Lab and Designer

This is the same shop but for team wear: City2Surf Lab, City2Surf shirts on-line ordering

Same shop and back end but totally different artwork, pricing and garments. I like the nifty catalogue feature: Teamwear Catalogue, running team wear

It is very reasonable price too and you don't get taxed by the developers on the number of orders pushed through the shop either.


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## Skinbus

I'd recommend Zazzle for ease of design tool. It depends on what you're willing to pay as Zazzle can be pricey depending on the quantity you need.


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## Riderz Ready

allhamps said:


> I just want an online design tool that I can ADD to my existing website, with MY designs, and the items/apparel that I offer for decoration. I have spent countless hours talking and researching design tools and it always fizzles out because everyone is offering a "e-commerce package". I don't want another website, I don't want to pay a monthly/annual fee and then have to pay again for someone to "see if we can configure this to be used with your existing site. I don't want pre-packaged clip art, I don't want a tool that HAS to use a specific shopping cart, so it's actually a separate website within my website. Oh well, maybe one day


I feel your pain. Over the last three years we installed and implemented OSS Designer, RSK, Pikiware, Inksoft and Deconet all in the hopes of having a site that offers on-line design capabilities but that does not look like all of the thousands of on-line design sites using the standard templates. 

The only one that got us to where we needed to be was Deconet. We recently went live and still cleaning up the site but if you look at our site you hopefully realize the site looks and functions as a "typical" website" yet has the ability for our customers to design a jersey on line. We are unique in what we needed as we are not putting designs on shirts. We create a decorated product and let our customers personalize the decorated item. 

We used DecoCoach to design the site and it went very smoothly and the end results was just what we are looking for in our site. To us the biggest difference with Deconet is the flexibility in which they can create sites and their BusinessHub which is a full fledge back end that has some really cool features that we are looking at using now for our regular team business which has nothing to do with the on-line tool. 

Best of luck to you


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## Zippy Doodah

CustomInk is a great website. I think I read that they do about $50 mil a year. They have an inhouse design and programming dept. I think one of the founders is also an IT pro. To get what they have would cost 10's of thousands of $'s.. and more! I'd like something like that also. lol


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## EGS

@Mabuzi - I just visited your site and uploaded my company logo. I had the same issue as with ALL other tools. It doesn't know what to do with it. Do you do screen printing?


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## EGS

Skinbus said:


> I'd recommend Zazzle for ease of design tool. It depends on what you're willing to pay as Zazzle can be pricey depending on the quantity you need.


I don't understand your post. Why would I use Zazzle??


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## habib

Hey guys im getting really frustated now , all i want is a single tshirt designer software ( like a template ) that i can modify and upload to MY website. HOW HARD CAN IT BE? i dont want those expencive programs with alot of fees.. any ideas?? i want it simple, i pay for it and i get all the needed codes etc


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## Zippy Doodah

habib said:


> Hey guys im getting really frustated now , all i want is a single tshirt designer software ( like a template ) that i can modify and upload to MY website. HOW HARD CAN IT BE? i dont want those expencive programs with alot of fees.. any ideas?? i want it simple, i pay for it and i get all the needed codes etc


Actually, these design tools are very complicated. A lot of hours go into designing and testing and re-testing to get them to work simple and intuitive on the front side. There is no simple way to have an online design tool. You either spend the money and time to have someone design you a proprietary tool or you use something that is available to the public. IMO, if you already have a business and are looking at adding to it, something like Deconet looks to be a fairly easy way to get into the "online design" business. If you don't already have a business and want to start a business around an online design tool, then you either need to have a tool created or use an available solution. The other alternative would be to follow along with the OpenTshirt project and use that when it becomes available ..Which seems like it will be soon. They're even developing a design tool module that will integrate with Opencart. This is really a fantastic system, but like I said it isn't quite ready, yet. You can pretty much demo all the design tools available right now, and I think you will see a lot of them really aren't very intuitive on the front end. If customers can't figure them out easily, no one will use them. Deconet is fairly reasonable from a pay as you go perspective but none of them will be completely free. You have to consider the cost of art, fonts and graphics, too. Most of the art houses don't want their artwork online, so that really limits you. If it is all your own art work or you’re just having people upload a photo or graphic, that's fine. If you’re considering creating all your own artwork, expect to create at least 2000 or more pieces. Also, keep in mind even if you were to buy a solution outright, your still going to be responsible for populating it. Adding art, graphis etc isn't all as easy as you might think. Most of these platforms use some sort of Flash and php, so you'll need to know what your doing, setting it up and maintaining it. You really have to look at what you have or what you want to accomplish with you website. I think a lot of people want on online design tool because, They think it will generate business for them. This isn't true. You still have to generate the business to the website to use the tool. I know it's frustrating ..Good Luck!


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## Mabuzi

@EGS I have yet to find a program that has a colour counter that works for screen printing. We work in retail and there are occasions when customers supply what they think as one colour screen print is in fact full colour.
RSK does have a colour counter but we dont use it. RSK also provides a embroidery module which we are going to use shortly.


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## bxxm

Where can I get a Design Tool like Zazzle has?


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## EGS

After testing all the available design tools I could find, the main issues seem to be with the computer identifying correct colors - and giving your customer a correct price. The only solution seems to be a pop up box (when you upload your own art) that will allow you to choose the colors in your design. Deco has this as well as inksoft. 

The other HUGE issue that they all have is pricing discounts. I know when I last tried DECO the system was not able to accommodate my price structure. I have not tried inksoft's yet but I believe it is better. 

In other areas - Deco network would not even let you "arch text" in the bottom position. A huge oversight in my opinion.


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## Zippy Doodah

bxxm said:


> Where can I get a Design Tool like Zazzle has?


 the online design tools that you see from these mega companies took many months of programing and development. they are built in-house with a team of experts. buku bucks!


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## Zippy Doodah

EGS said:


> After testing all the available design tools I could find, the main issues seem to be with the computer identifying correct colors - and giving your customer a correct price. The only solution seems to be a pop up box (when you upload your own art) that will allow you to choose the colors in your design. Deco has this as well as inksoft.
> 
> The other HUGE issue that they all have is pricing discounts. I know when I last tried DECO the system was not able to accommodate my price structure. I have not tried inksoft's yet but I believe it is better.
> 
> In other areas - Deco network would not even let you "arch text" in the bottom position. A huge oversight in my opinion.


 i don't think you will ever find a perfect design tool to fit exactly what you need, until you build it yourself. the "out of the box" solutions are constantly being updated, but then most of them are designed to appeal to a wide rage of users. opentshirt has a long way to go, but it s definatley targeted toward the sik screener.


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## function

Okay I am currently designing my own t-shirt designer. I will start with the reason why first.

My father bought an Anajet Sprint DTG printer with his business partner and I wanted to give him a good quality website. His first thought was to buy a premade shirt designer and I would install it. Well, that was disastrous because nothing could be modified. And the things that COULD be modified had to be found and edited among a huge amount of XML documents and PHP pages which is a head ache if you didn't write the coding. The program itself was written in flash so any styling you wanted to do could not be done! Next you could not get any of the orders if someone made a product. It would only save 1 xml file that was written in code so you would have to have a web developer on hand just to show you what the shirt should look like and piece it together for you!

Next let me tell you what I did. I tore apart the damn 150 dollar program as best I could and learned all the basic algorithms and procedures and re-wrote them in javascript ( a language that is used for web development ) and php instead of flash. I spent about 3 months putting this all together and came up with the following

http://social-prints.com/create.php

Now I can save all the data how I want. The way I chose was to send the data to a php page which re-constructs the shirt piece by piece and saves it as a whole image. So what the user saw on the shirt before he/she clicked save is exactly what is saved. So every time I go to /images/1-front.png on my website (1 being any number that is unique to that creation) it will show me what the user created on the front of the shirt. Next I save an image that can be loaded directly into AnaJet Sprints program that sends the information to the printer. This image is created at 16"x12.5" which is max print for his printer. So now all I have to do is view the image "/images/original-1-front.png" to stick into the printer and center the shirt, put it 1 inch from the top and hit print. (it should output exactly how the user saw it).

Also my site includes an admin function which allows the admin to upload images and create categories. These image show up on the designer and allows users to use those. Users are also allowed to create text and upload their own images.

Any feedback on my designer would be appreciated. Like I said I don't own the machine my father and his business partner does. So if any of the pros have concerns let me know please!


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## Mabuzi

function said:


> Okay I am currently designing my own t-shirt designer. I will start with the reason why first.
> 
> My father bought an Anajet Sprint DTG printer with his business partner and I wanted to give him a good quality website. His first thought was to buy a premade shirt designer and I would install it. Well, that was disastrous because nothing could be modified. And the things that COULD be modified had to be found and edited among a huge amount of XML documents and PHP pages which is a head ache if you didn't write the coding. The program itself was written in flash so any styling you wanted to do could not be done! Next you could not get any of the orders if someone made a product. It would only save 1 xml file that was written in code so you would have to have a web developer on hand just to show you what the shirt should look like and piece it together for you!
> 
> Next let me tell you what I did. I tore apart the damn 150 dollar program as best I could and learned all the basic algorithms and procedures and re-wrote them in javascript ( a language that is used for web development ) and php instead of flash. I spent about 3 months putting this all together and came up with the following
> 
> http://social-prints.com/create.php
> 
> Now I can save all the data how I want. The way I chose was to send the data to a php page which re-constructs the shirt piece by piece and saves it as a whole image. So what the user saw on the shirt before he/she clicked save is exactly what is saved. So every time I go to /images/1-front.png on my website (1 being any number that is unique to that creation) it will show me what the user created on the front of the shirt. Next I save an image that can be loaded directly into AnaJet Sprints program that sends the information to the printer. This image is created at 16"x12.5" which is max print for his printer. So now all I have to do is view the image "/images/original-1-front.png" to stick into the printer and center the shirt, put it 1 inch from the top and hit print. (it should output exactly how the user saw it).
> 
> Also my site includes an admin function which allows the admin to upload images and create categories. These image show up on the designer and allows users to use those. Users are also allowed to create text and upload their own images.
> 
> Any feedback on my designer would be appreciated. Like I said I don't own the machine my father and his business partner does. So if any of the pros have concerns let me know please!


Well done mate. Brilliant. 

Allow for multiple size ordering of the same design, plus discounts.
The text should appear on the shirt. The shirt colour picker should work too.
I will keep watching your site for future developments.

What is the output file for the printer form the software? This is very tricky with DTG and consistancy of results.


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## function

Mabuzi said:


> Well done mate. Brilliant.
> 
> Allow for multiple size ordering of the same design, plus discounts.
> The text should appear on the shirt. The shirt colour picker should work too.
> I will keep watching your site for future developments.
> 
> What is the output file for the printer form the software? This is very tricky with DTG and consistancy of results.


Thanks bud! All those features should work, it may depend on your browser (I'm using a linux operating system which some web browsers are accessible so once i get a copy of windows it will work in all browsers) . I made a quick video of me using the site and all the features in it. No mic though so there no sound in the video unfortunately but if you watch carefully it shows how I do the layers and even show the cart and landing page for the creations!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CULSX6W8Y&feature=youtu.be[/media]


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## bxxm

function said:


> Thanks bud! All those features should work, it may depend on your browser (I'm using a linux operating system which some web browsers are accessible so once i get a copy of windows it will work in all browsers) . I made a quick video of me using the site and all the features in it. No mic though so there no sound in the video unfortunately but if you watch carefully it shows how I do the layers and even show the cart and landing page for the creations!
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CULSX6W8Y&feature=youtu.be[/media]



Please send me the download link for the software

Thank you


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## function

bxxm said:


> Please send me the download link for the software
> 
> Thank you


Sorry, this is still in beta testing. Like I said I need to get all the bugs out of every single browser before I can even launch any sites. I remember seeing a post about how hard can it be but let me tell you it's very very hard! And I know about 7 programming languages and I think I'm pretty good at them.



> What is the output file for the printer form the software? This is very tricky with DTG and consistancy of results.


Well I automatically put it into a transparent PNG file and all the images are placed accordingly on top of that. So if there is a white background in the image that is uploaded it will be placed on top. I'm thinking of writing an algorithm to take out background colors but it can be confusing and lead to more bugs. As for the size, its scaled to the machine (AnaJet Sprint, currently) which if the image can't be created at 16" x 12.5" it will use the same ratio so that way the image won't get distorted when putting it into the printing program.

if you want to take a look at the original image and see if it loses any quality you can view it 

[media]http://social-prints.com/upload/original-141-front.png[/media]

This one is the image you would use for your printer. 

[media]http://social-prints.com/upload/141-front.png[/media]

And that would be the image to compare it to.


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## AdvancedArtist

Be careful with RSK.. Just search the term here on tforums seems a few users have been hijacked for big dollars.


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## Mabuzi

AdvancedArtist said:


> Be careful with RSK.. Just search the term here on tforums seems a few users have been hijacked for big dollars.


Hi Tom, 
Ok I will ask the owner when I speak to him about my dev project I have with RSK about these 2 bad reviews.

I will encourage him to come onto this forum to give him the right to challenge that statement.


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## AdvancedArtist

Mabuzi said:


> Hi Tom,
> Ok I will ask the owner when I speak to him about my dev project I have with RSK about these 2 bad reviews.
> 
> I will encourage him to come onto this forum to give him the right to challenge that statement.


I am just saying be careful.. nothing more. The feed back here should serve as a caution sign. I do not know all the details and I am not trying to take sides I am just saying look at the info.


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## bibledude

What I think would be smart for the design tools would be a design tool that would integrate with various open-source cart applications. I like zen cart, and others like magento or some other cart. Why re-invent the wheel and spend thousands of hours developing a cart when it would take a week or two or programming to interface with an existing cart? The biggest weakness of some of these design tools is their cart. I tried RSK and is was so buggy I could not use it. The sales reports do not work, the multi-shop reports do not work, the non-modfiable product catalogs do not work, and they show other modifiable items and items from other multi-sites, there is no button to go to the cart, if you go to the cart and back out to double-check your product design, it is not there and has vanished, so you have to start all over, if you use transparent backgrounds on your product images, they are double-imaged and look bad, when I added products the image from another product woudl sometimes be used instead of the desired image, and it was not fixable, you could not change the category of a product, there were no sub-categories for graphics or logos, etc etc etc. I had a list of about twenty bugs I needed to have fixed before I could use the tool, and they finally shut down their site and their email. The design tool had a nice user interface, but the reporting and cart were terrible. They would never integrate with my existing site, and insisted on hosting and starting over. The i-frame option would not work with multi-sites.

I think these design tool companies should focus on their designer and not waste time on a cart when there are so many good ones with mature code and thousands of users and developers supporting them. I do not need an entire website, I need a design tool app that can integrate with mine.


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## Riderz Ready

bibledude said:


> What I think would be smart for the design tools would be a design tool that would integrate with various open-source cart applications. I like zen cart, and others like magento or some other cart. Why re-invent the wheel and spend thousands of hours developing a cart when it would take a week or two or programming to interface with an existing cart? The biggest weakness of some of these design tools is their cart. I tried RSK and is was so buggy I could not use it. The sales reports do not work, the multi-shop reports do not work, the non-modfiable product catalogs do not work, and they show other modifiable items and items from other multi-sites, there is no button to go to the cart, if you go to the cart and back out to double-check your product design, it is not there and has vanished, so you have to start all over, if you use transparent backgrounds on your product images, they are double-imaged and look bad, when I added products the image from another product woudl sometimes be used instead of the desired image, and it was not fixable, you could not change the category of a product, there were no sub-categories for graphics or logos, etc etc etc. I had a list of about twenty bugs I needed to have fixed before I could use the tool, and they finally shut down their site and their email. The design tool had a nice user interface, but the reporting and cart were terrible. They would never integrate with my existing site, and insisted on hosting and starting over. The i-frame option would not work with multi-sites.
> 
> I think these design tool companies should focus on their designer and not waste time on a cart when there are so many good ones with mature code and thousands of users and developers supporting them. I do not need an entire website, I need a design tool app that can integrate with mine.


The challenge vendors producing these face is the vast range of uses and needs making the systems very complex. We do cut and sew dye sublimation and our needs and pricig are very different from someone doing DTG who is very different from someone doing embroidery, etc etc.

Another example - you would prefer an open source cart. I prefer the system all be self contained. As a business if we have a software issue I do not have the time to track down is it vendors "A" issue or vendors "B" issue. I want a manned support department where I can make one call and have it resolved.

You prefer to embed a designer into your existing webs ite. I prefer to have the web site and design studio all combined so again I only have one call to make if there is an issue.

The point is these companies face great challenges in trying to develope a system that meets a wide range of needs as their is no single right way to create a soltuion for such a wide range of needs.


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## AdvancedArtist

bibledude said:


> What I think would be smart for the design tools would be a design tool that would integrate with various open-source cart applications. I like zen cart, and others like magento or some other cart. Why re-invent the wheel and spend thousands of hours developing a cart when it would take a week or two or programming to interface with an existing cart? The biggest weakness of some of these design tools is their cart. I tried RSK and is was so buggy I could not use it. The sales reports do not work, the multi-shop reports do not work, the non-modfiable product catalogs do not work, and they show other modifiable items and items from other multi-sites, there is no button to go to the cart, if you go to the cart and back out to double-check your product design, it is not there and has vanished, so you have to start all over, if you use transparent backgrounds on your product images, they are double-imaged and look bad, when I added products the image from another product woudl sometimes be used instead of the desired image, and it was not fixable, you could not change the category of a product, there were no sub-categories for graphics or logos, etc etc etc. I had a list of about twenty bugs I needed to have fixed before I could use the tool, and they finally shut down their site and their email. The design tool had a nice user interface, but the reporting and cart were terrible. They would never integrate with my existing site, and insisted on hosting and starting over. The i-frame option would not work with multi-sites.
> 
> I think these design tool companies should focus on their designer and not waste time on a cart when there are so many good ones with mature code and thousands of users and developers supporting them. I do not need an entire website, I need a design tool app that can integrate with mine.


Once again.. be careful with RSK!


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## Zippy Doodah

bibledude said:


> ... I think these design tool companies should focus on their designer and not waste time on a cart when there are so many good ones with mature code and thousands of users and developers supporting them. I do not need an entire website, I need a design tool app that can integrate with mine.


The problem is that you need to have a way for the designed product to be put in the shopping cart so it can be purchased. If you have other products on your site that are sold and need to be placed in the shopping cart, this is where the problem lies. It is easier to write a code, like java script to have a static item forwarded to the designer's shopping cart then it is to do it the other way around. When building an online design tool you just about, have to design it around the cart because of all the functions that need to take place eg; art work going one place and the order going to another and then the payment going to the gateway. It's a lot more complicated then most people realize. That's why you mostly, see design tool solutions built to house all of the above. Trying to piece meal an operation like that so that you can just add it to a web site would be difficult. You would still need a code to connect the two different functions to one shopping cart ..static items and designed items. If all you want is a design tool and you don't have any static items to sell, you can always just link to the designer. I made a "poor mans" version of this by taking an open source eCommerce solution and linked to an open source design tool. I used two different data bases and by using a a simple payment solution like PayPal standard for each cart, I can get the same effect. The problem, again is you won't see the items from both sources in the same cart. My thinking is that a customer is either going to buy something already printed from the shop or they are going to design something custom. I don't know ..still experimenting. btw, it also has two different admins which keeps things simple.


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## bibledude

Generally would not be a problem to add a designed product to a cart for checkout. Even if the cart app does not have an API to add an external product to the cart for checkout, it will have a means coded to add a product to the shopping cart for checkout. Any experienced programmer can go into the cart code and add a module for accepting products and adding to the cart. Depending on the app, it may be necessary to add the product into a page or db. Then it is a matter of formatting the product info and passing the data. You could even have the base product and price in the Zen or whatever system, and add one to the cart for checkout with the designed image. It would take a good programmer about a day or two to write the code and test it. Most of the established open-source e-commerce systems have lots of programmers supporting them, and forums with lots of info. There may even be a module already written for the app to pass in a product.


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## bibledude

Anyway, I am not suggesting that design tools should not have a shopping cart and e-commerce solution built in. I am suggesting the developers follow best practice software engineering principles by incorporating modular, re-useable, stable code where possible. Open source software epitomizes this ideal.


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## TPrintDesigner

bibledude said:


> What I think would be smart for the design tools would be a design tool that would integrate with various open-source cart applications.


We looked at integrating ShirtTools with an OS cart but decided against it. Users add 3rd party plugins that can mess with the code that talks between the designer and cart, in the end we went with Pinnacle Cart.


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## Zippy Doodah

bibledude said:


> Anyway, I am not suggesting that design tools should not have a shopping cart and e-commerce solution built in. I am suggesting the developers follow best practice software engineering principles by incorporating modular, re-useable, stable code where possible. Open source software epitomizes this ideal.


Yes, I think that is what I tried to say. A programmer can create that code, but getting everything compatible takes a little doing. The people building the "Pay For" solutions don't neccessarily want you to do this, though. They would rather you are dependent on their entire system. As far as my experiment, I like to do things myself and I'm always looking for a simple solution. This is more of a hobby for me and I like to tinker. With that said, I know that the people at OpenTshirts have this very thing in the works to integrate into Open Cart. I've also talked to them about writing a code to add products outside the designer into the cart and they already have this. But once their modular integration is available it won't be neccessary. As that project moves forward I think you will find what you are looking for


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## bibledude

I am going to look into OpenTshirts to see what is going on with it. If I can find the time, I was planning on writing a simple API for a Zen Cart module so a one-line piece of code can be added to a design tool to add the product into the checkout cart. Then any number of standard products can be in the Zen Cart, and the custom products will be added to the shopping cart via the designer "Add to Cart" button", or whatever they will call it. There are a couple of behind-the-scenes things that will need to take place: product info will have to go to the Zen Cart, the graphic will have to be saved, the product image with the graphic will have to be saved. If OpenTshirts is already integrating an open-source cart into their system, I might just wait for it and use it, if it is ready in the next few months since it will take a few months of plinking away a couple hours a week to write the API code for Zen. I am not familiar with Open Cart, and will have to take a look at it. I am willing to change from Zen for the right solution, I am just most familiar with Zen over the years. It is annoying to modify and manage, but I am used to it.


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## Zippy Doodah

if you look in this forum under the "ecommerce site design" heading and the thread titled "advanced artist doing it again.." in the most recient posts, Tom has a link to a beta example of how the integration will work with Open Cart. I think the link is http://www.t-shirtforums.com/ecommerce-site-design/t141019-57.html
You can also see a demo of opentshirts at opentshirts.org 
..From what i've seen of zen cart, there are similarities with open cart. not identical, but similarities. I also find the support forums at open cart to be very good.


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## prteez

Zen cart is actually pretty good and if I can get the current opentshirts to install without the mx error or the user not logged in error when trying to save the design.(it has something to do with amfphp gateway.php not loading) I am looking into integrating with zencart.


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## Mazenaghani

CustomInk website is listed under Bigcommerce portfolio in this link.


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## v3r0n1k4

function said:


> Thanks bud! All those features should work, it may depend on your browser (I'm using a linux operating system which some web browsers are accessible so once i get a copy of windows it will work in all browsers) . I made a quick video of me using the site and all the features in it. No mic though so there no sound in the video unfortunately but if you watch carefully it shows how I do the layers and even show the cart and landing page for the creations!
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CULSX6W8Y&feature=youtu.be[/media]


I went on ur site and its a really nice job but it did make me ask a few questions. It only took me about a minute to make up a shirt but here is my question...

You have a thing at the bottom saying "check out the shirts others have made" and when I click on it it loads up the "other" persons shirt and says I can buy it for 19.99 w/e.

Does that mean that anyone who uploads a custom graphic to your site would have their artwork or images saved and then you would resell it to others? Is that legal? 

Its a pretty cool app though.


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## Mazenaghani

How about this one guys > Design 'N' Buy 

They are asking for US$ 1,950.00 one time shot for the tool. You just need to get a hosting service yourself. Otherwise, US$ 150.00

This is good for sublimation as there are many products for the visitor to choose from.


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## mikeynuzz

ATTENTION PROFESSIONS

Is it really necessary to have a designer t shirt tool on my website?
Its very costly and about $200 a month

I'm seeing most people have their own designs already, and i'm thinking theres a small % of people that really don't need or want to bother with customizing?..Your thoughts please

Thanks Mike


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## devbackham079

Offering design online for any apparel is always a great thing for the customer. They can design their own idea of apparel. It increases simply user experience to your store and also builds your business as a brand.


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## PedalJustPedal

devbackham079 said:


> Offering design online for any apparel is always a great thing for the customer. They can design their own idea of apparel. It increases simply user experience to your store and also builds your business as a brand.


If you think the majority of people can design their own idea on a apparel you are greatly mistaken. It happens rarely. All designers are really good for is simply adding a design to a specific substrate - that is about as far as 90% of people can go.


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