# How else can you Print/Cut besides VersaCam?



## freeblazer (Sep 25, 2009)

I was wondering what some other options were for doing a Print/Cut transfers.

What would be a good small scale printer. 
I already have a cutter, It does not have a optical eye, so I imagine I would need a new cutter. 
Can you run a printable heat transfer vinyl through a epson printer (3000,4880) . They have a place for roll media. Are those printers capable of doing that? Is the regular ink just all wrong or going to be too expensive (cartridges).
I currently do screenprinting, but I am needing a affordable way to do smaller jobs. I would also like to be versatile (T-shirts, stickers, small signage, etc.). I have looked at DTG printers, ChromaBlast, Sublimation, VersaCam, etc. All of them have their pluses and minuses.. VersamCam is probably my first choice because of what it can do, but I don't have an extra 16-20K to spare.
I am looking for something to use until I can work up to a VersaCam.

Any Suggestions?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

You can print on a heat transfer paper with printer you mentioned. Sometimes OEM ink has a tendency to shift due to the heat of the press. So when that happens it is best to buy at least refillable cartridges and 3rd party heat transfer pigmented inks. Heat transfer comes in roll so printers with that capability will do fine. The printer can be set to print on custom size paper like banner size from a roll. You have to cut it manually if the printer does not have a cutter. Epson 3000 or 4480 is a large format printer so it should work with roll. Some vinyl opaque transfer requires solvent ink. Some will work with any type of ink. Roland opaque for example will work with dye, pigmented or solvent inks. 

Vinyl cutter without registration sensor will not work when contour cutting transfer with accuracy. I do contour cut with my vinyl cutter that don't have registration mark sensor when accuracy is not needed (close enough). You have to know how to trick the cutter. I use my other vinyl cutter with registration mark especially contour cutting opaque transfer.

Refillable cartridges are available at inkjetcart.us, inkjetfly.com and inksupply.com. Some of the preferred vendors carry those too.


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## andywt (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi
You can also get rolls of printable vinyl for pigment inks. I used it recently and was quite impressed.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

andywt said:


> Hi
> You can also get rolls of printable vinyl for pigment inks. I used it recently and was quite impressed.


Can you please advise where I may find this type of vinyl?

What brand/type was it and what make/model of pigment ink printer have you used this vinyl with?

Thanks.


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm interested too. I have been using JPSS and then putting a backer on it before putting it in the plotter but it is a pain. I really would rather start out with a good product like JPSS with a backer allready on it.


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

andywt said:


> Hi
> You can also get rolls of printable vinyl for pigment inks. I used it recently and was quite impressed.


I'm also very interested in this. Would you please post what it is and where you got it?


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

Cjoe Design said:


> I have been using JPSS and then putting a backer on it before putting it in the plotter but it is a pain.


You don't need a backer with JPSS. If you just cut through the thin top polymer layer you can just peel it off the unwanted portions just like you would weed heat transfer vinyl. Maybe that will save you a couple bucks until we can find out what vinyl you can print on with pigment ink.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Since I have a tendency at times to be impatient, I've already started asking this question of other sources.

For those asking like myself about apparel vinyl for pigment ink printers, check out a company called Folex Imaging. They make a huge selection of transfer and vinyl materials for many, many markets.

I got brief word from a US Supplier of Folex signage vinyl that Folex also makes a vinyl-like material for pigment ink printers. 

It's quite possibly this product, but don't quote me on it: 

*FOLAJET TRANSFER ST*


I'm still gathering details.


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## andywt (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi the printable vinyl I used was from this company. 

Printable Flex - Garment Film | BMS - Sublimation & Printer Cartridges & Edible Inks

I bought a few metres to use for making stag night tshirts and they came out great.


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

andywt said:


> Hi the printable vinyl I used was from this company.
> 
> Printable Flex - Garment Film*|*BMS - Sublimation & Printer Cartridges & Edible Inks
> 
> I bought a few metres to use for making stag night tshirts and they came out great.


Is this a real printable vinyl or more of an opaque transfer paper?


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## andywt (Mar 9, 2009)

To be honest I'm not sure as I haven't used opaque paper, but it feels like vinyl once peeled from it's paper backing.


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## Turbo-Jet (Oct 13, 2009)

i have used sign vinaland has worked well for me got it at local sign supply co


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

andywt said:


> To be honest I'm not sure as I haven't used opaque paper, but it feels like vinyl once peeled from it's paper backing.


If it has a paper backing I'm guessing that it is opaque transfer paper, but just to be sure I've emailed the company direct and I'll post back if I hear anything!


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

Turbo-Jet said:


> i have used sign vinaland has worked well for me got it at local sign supply co


Just to clarify, you have printed on sign vinyl with pigment ink?

Do you still apply it to the substrate just as you would regular cut vinyl?

What brand vinyl did you use?

Thanks!!


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

nottypical said:


> Just to clarify, you have printed on sign vinyl with pigment ink?
> 
> Do you still apply it to the substrate just as you would regular cut vinyl?
> 
> ...


Jess,

Not sure if you saw my previous post about the Folex company on the Folajet product for fabric/apparel, though I believe it's heat transfer paper. I'm still trying to get confirmation on it.

However, regarding your question on _sign_ vinyl that's printable with pigment ink printers, again, check out Folex because I'm just learning yesterday they have a lot of products.  

They offer a sign and decal vinyl called *Folajet Vinyl/SA-P* that, per their claims, can be used with thermal, dye and pigment ink printers. I'm trying to get a hold of some to confirm. If you get to test some before me, let us know if it's what we believe.

See the attachment on the Folajet Vinyl specs from Folex. Looks like the smallest roll is 2 ft wide x 65 ft long. This company is not based in the US, which could be why I'm just starting to hear about it. Or, my head has been in the sand too long!


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

Thanks Ms. Blue. I did read your earlier post, but the link didn't work and I couldn't find it. I use a printable paper from Papilio for stickers and small stuff, but it's not anything I could say attach to a banner to add a full color logo or anything.

I'm very interested in finding something like you have been researching to make this possible without having to invest in the highly expensive versacamm or equilalent.

Thanks again!!


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Lnfortun said:


> Roland opaque for example will work with dye, pigmented or solvent inks.


Lnfortun:

Would the Roland product you mentioned be PGM-PMWVP or PCM-WMWV? These products show on a Roland spec sheet I found online as compatible with Roland pigment, dye, SOL and Eco-Sol inks. Have you tested these products with non-Roland pigment inks? These are vinyl options I'll look into also, thanks for the mention!

Freeblazer: 

You're asking a couple of the same questions I've recently asked myself when I determined that the Summa vinyl-cutter-in-one was not yet in my budget. It too is priced around the same as the Roland VersaCAMMs. 

Since my 30" Summa cutter is serving me well, I'm looking to pair it with a nice 24" wide format printer, possibly a Canon iPF model with 12 pigment inks and built-in 80GB hard drive. This would allow me more flexibility in what I can print at a much higher graphic quality than a 30" printer-cutter-in-one, and thus, open up other markets (photographic prints/photo art prints). Plus, there is sign, decal, POP and other vinyl types that can be printed with pigment inks from what I'm discovering. 

Also, the Canon iPF 24" printers are going for $2,350 - $2,750 now (with rebates til end of year), shipped free and with a free 2nd set of pigment inks. Epson's got their deals going too on wide format with rebates.

I'd save $10,500 going this route. I'd lose the convenience of not having an all-in-one, but I'm okay with it (as I don't have that convenience now). While the cutter is running, I can print other jobs that may not need to be cut vs. waiting for a job to complete in an all-in-one before a non-cut job needs to be printed. It boils down to that there are pros and con to each setup.

Jess,

No problem! I'm reading about the Roland vinyl that Lnfortun has mentioned too. Check those out as well. The big unknown remains to be - is there a heat transfer apparel vinyl available for pigment ink printers? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

AdriaticBlue said:


> Lnfortun:
> 
> Would the Roland product you mentioned be PGM-PMWVP or PCM-WMWV? These products show on a Roland spec sheet I found online as compatible with Roland pigment, dye, SOL and Eco-Sol inks. Have you tested these products with non-Roland pigment inks? These are vinyl options I'll look into also, thanks for the mention!


It is PCM-HTM-10-24. It comes in different length and 11X17 sizes.

Here is the link: Apparel Transfer Inkjet Media for inkjet printers from Beacon Graphics, LLC

I used third party pigment ink with Epson printer. The samples that I made were washed three times and no noticeable loss of color. It is soft before and after wash compared to other opaque I have tried. Had a matte finish. It stretches to a certain point. If forced it will crack. Screen print will do the same under stress. It does not crack after 3 washes in cold water and hot dryer setting. 

The pressing temp, dwell time and pressure ar low. Which is good. There is less of a cahnce in missing up and scorching the fabric.

BTW the Magic Mask that I used to peel the opaque from the backing does not pick ink from the opaque when peeled when the transfer is completely cold.

It is a good combination.

These are the two samples that I made:

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/10456d1250159545-need-help-applying-inkjet-paper-dark-shirts-darconian-2.jpg[/media]

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/10455d1250159545-need-help-applying-inkjet-paper-dark-shirts-draconian-1.jpg[/media]


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

Have you used Jet Opaque? If so did your dragon print have a softer less plastic like feel?


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## nottypical (May 1, 2009)

I recieved an email from the printable Flex company. It is a heat transfer material, but maybe it ahs a softer hand than anything I've ever used. Anyone else tried this material?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

nottypical said:


> Have you used Jet Opaque? If so did your dragon print have a softer less plastic like feel?


No but I have used Inktra for dark with another image. I was told that Inktra for dark is a re-branded Jet Opaque. Roland is much softer and stretchier. Inktra is a bit thicker. It survived the hot dryer also. The thing I noticed about inkjet opaque is the colors are muted even Ironall for dark. Roland opaque was not like that. BTW it is easy to cut and weed also.

[media]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/9413d1243601129-ecofilm-vinyl-opaque-underbase-nukecon-inktra008.jpg[/media]
Pressed with Inktra for dark alias Jet Opaque.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

nottypical said:


> I recieved an email from the printable Flex company. It is a heat transfer material, but maybe it ahs a softer hand than anything I've ever used. Anyone else tried this material?


Not sure if there is a domestic vendor. It is made by a french company Chemica. I have seen Chemica brand vinyls being offered by US vendors. That is the first time I have heard of Printable Flex.

I saw a Chemica product call Easy Print at Beacon Graphics but it is for solvent inks only.


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