# So you know DTG! What do you predict for 2012?



## ROYAL SAVAGE (Feb 18, 2009)

The one thing that I love about T-Shirt Forums is that it is frequented by a lot of smart people who have a good handle on the industry at large. But who really knows this business?
*What are your top predictions for 2012?
*
*Biggest winner?
*
*Biggest loser?*

*Will we see more competition?
*
*What is the number one item on your wish list in 2012?*


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

*What are your top predictions for 2012? I'm looking forward to going to Long Beach next month. I have expectations and I want to see what's new, Who's ready and who's go good ideas.*

*Biggest winner? Anajet, Aeoon and anyone taking this to the next step. I think with faster machines and more solid competition in "production" machines, we will see ink pricing creep down(more for production houses). Brother will continue their success. Maybe Larson will come out of their shell.*

*Biggest loser? Any company that's not at least moving in the direction away from Epson. I'm still not convinced that cheaper multiple machines are "bad", but working with technology that's not "working" with us and has no incentive to do so, is a dead end road. *

*Will we see more competition? I think we may see a few less manufactures and maybe some new Re-brand deals in the next 2-3 years.*


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## ChoiceImage1420 (Dec 30, 2011)

What do you have against an Epson dtg head?


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

ChoiceImage1420 said:


> What do you have against an Epson dtg head?


IMHO Nothing wrong with Epson printhead. Actually one of the Best. In past and now many 1/2 engineer made Epson modify printers without understand fully. I was the one of victim myself. If you understand well on Epson print system this is one of best way to meet lowest price range and with best print quality. I dont know others but NeoFamily average printhead life is more than 2 years with $500-600 head. It cannot be better deal.Check NeoFamily satisfaction rate. Problem on new epson is too many to understand and supply chain. AA is very close to introduce but it will be longer shot than I hoped. AA refuse to be a laugh matter as others did. We all withnessed Anajet M and DTG M and Polyprint (texjet, Melco) were prematured and rush to market. now they realize mistake and quitely doing their best for LB show. Many lucks to them. I need them too. LOL
Cheers! From airport lounge. Sapporos are on me always.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

ChoiceImage1420 said:


> What do you have against an Epson dtg head?


I think many people feel the Epson print head technology is one of the best for high detailed, photo printing. The challenge comes when we change the ink chemistry and ask it push out a thicker ink that is close to the top range for the print head. The ink manufacturers have done a good job of creating the ink to fit within the technical range of the print heads, but in doing so have to water it down and thus increases the ability of the ink to separate during non-use faster. I spoke to one dtg user that mentioned a new ink he was testing does not separate as fast as his previous brand... but that he was still very early in the testing process. I really think that the direction we are seeing most of the major dtg manufacturers going into is to using a higher viscosity ink set that will make the daily operation of the dtg printers more user friendly. In doing so, they are moving away from the Epson print head technology.

As for the 2012 questions, here are my responses.

*What are your top predictions for 2012?
*The focus will change from trying to get more reliable equipment to more user-friendly ink & pretreatment chemistry.

*Biggest winner?
*The prospective and current dtg users that do their due diligence before investing into the "latest" product to make sure that the dtg printer really does match the needs of their business.

*Biggest loser?*
I have two of them. 1. The garment decorators that still think dtg printing is a fade and will not last. 2. The dtg users that don't learn how to properly price dtg printing to ensure they are making a profit. (Great thread on this in the dtg forum that everyone should read.)

*Will we see more competition?
*From what standpoint? From a dtg user's standpoint, absolutely. As more manufacturers go with a higher viscosity of ink that is easier to use, the existing dtg users will look to upgrade their printers and the market for used dtg printers will become saturated. Thus, making the barrier cost to entry even cheaper.

*What is the number one item on your wish list in 2012?*
Improvement to the white ink pretreatment process. Allow the pretreatment to be applied easier or at least create more economically-priced automatic pretreaters that are easy to maintain. Make it easier for pretreating on bright colored garments without leaving a pretreatment stain.

My other wish is for the entire garment decorating industry to get out of the mindset of competing on price, but I think world peace is likely to happen first.

Happy New Years!

Mark


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

DAGuide said:


> market for used dtg printers will become saturated. Thus, making the barrier cost to entry even cheaper.


Mark, as these older printers need new heads and epson stops making replacements, Do you think that the companies making ink will start raising ink prices on a shrinking market?


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## cavedave (Dec 5, 2006)

*What are your top predictions for 2012?*
Cheaper machines, I think we will see more CMYK only machines and Epson based printers well below the $10K being widly available.

*Biggest winner?*
Those that bring to market low cost machines, I expect to see a lot more CMYK (no white) based machines at very low costs around $5K or even less.
White ink is the biggest maintance issue and makes the whole process much more complicated (pre treatment etc. as well as software workflows).
CMYK based Epsons can be very reliable and cheap and I think thereis a big market for these.
But I also expect to see more cheaper CMYK + White Epson printers, the number of vendors will force down the capital costs as they chase the consumable business.

*Biggest loser?*
Dont know, but if I was a betting man I would be down at William Hill that at least one of the companies using the industrial prints heads is going to have a very wild ride this year. 
Getting print heads to work and getting them to work reliably is very different, there are so many things to go wrong, bugs in firmware, ink formulation for the print head, the list is endless.
There are great long term advantages to this as well, but I will be surprised if at least one doesnt have a tough time during the year getting there.


*Will we see more competition?*
Yes, but there are already more manufactures than you can poke a stick at. The real question is will there be more big players and my guess is at least one or two, but they may well end up selling via existing distribution as setting this up in the US is very difficult and expensive.

*What is the number one item on your wish list in 2012?*
Ink for the 4900/7900 including white, that would put a cat amongst the pigeons.

Best regards and happy new year

-David


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

zoom_monster said:


> Mark, as these older printers need new heads and epson stops making replacements, Do you think that the companies making ink will start raising ink prices on a shrinking market?


As far as what I have been told, the only printer that is in danger of not having replacement parts right now is the Epson 2200 printer because we are coming up the 8-10 year mark since it was discontinued - a key point when Epson stops manufacturing replacement parts. I expect the Epson 1800/1900/48X0 printers will have parts for some, but the writing on the wall seems to be that Epson is going to make people jump through hoops to get them. This will grow the "black market" or unauthorized secondary sales market that will drive up the prices for these parts. As the printers get older and has more wear-and-tear, it will just become unwise to continue to repair them much like an older cars. Then it will be scrapped or sold for what parts are left on it.

I don't see the ink companies raising the prices on the low viscosity inks, but I do think that you will see R&D resources reallocated to other things. So I am not sure how much more improvement we are going to see from the lower viscosity inks after the next 6 months or so unless there is a good ink developed for the new Epson printers that is even lower viscosity than the current inks on the market.

Mark


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Peter, is the "non Par" performance a matter of it not being fast enough (to Gell) for the color layer, or is it another issue?? This is biggest question for when I go to Long Beach show. I know the printers will print real fast, but if I'm waiting between white and color layer, or I have a bottlneck on the curing stage what good is an 11 second layer?


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

I am so used to perfect print. White is too thick and not white enough. 
CYMK is same as DuPont. Matter of time for white ink (they said).
We will have new white by Jan 4th. 
We did not waste anytime to white to settled.
Check this link.
Aeoon pictures by mp19134 - Photobucket


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## YoDan (May 4, 2007)

I wish and hope for peace amongst ALL the DTG manufactures in 2012 and beyond, it is good to have competition.
* "Good Luck and a Good year to ALL"*
Dan
*"HAPPY PRINTING"*


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## YoDan (May 4, 2007)

> Cheers! Beers are on me at LB to you. Bring some nice bottle!


 Mark, a good year to you also!
Peter, you know that I do not drink 
Dan
*"HAPPY NEW YEAR AND HAPPY PRINTING"*


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