# Stones fall off after one wash



## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

So as a newbie to rhinestones I'm still figuring out how to do it. I heat pressed a bunch of different designs and had good luck getting the designs to press out well.

However for the first time I put two shirts in the wash. One came out perfect, even with designs on both sides of the shirt. The other one however had 2 wings designs. 4-8 stones came off each pair. 

I pressed at 350F for 15 seconds on medium-high pressure. Then rubbed the designs with a cloth very good. About a minute later I peeled off the tape. Then I put parchment paper over it and pressed again for 10 seconds.

I did the last step as I thought it would help to seat the stones after peeling, which pulls on the stones a bit. Not sure what to do? The stones that are still on the shirts seem very secure, can't pull them off.

Did I burn the glue doing too much pressing? Does a too high pressure press out too much glue? Just trying to fine tune what I should do. Thank you.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

1) Are they Korean Stones? 
2) You don't need to repress
3) Wash inside out cold, low heat in the dryer but we recommend hand wash, line dry


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## proworlded (Oct 3, 2006)

Bill. I would recommend NOT doing the second 10 second press. There is no need and it might dry out the glue. Also, could be the quality of the stones. Always difficult pinpoint the cause.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

binki said:


> 1) Are they Korean Stones?
> 2) You don't need to repress
> 3) Wash inside out cold, low heat in the dryer but we recommend hand wash, line dry


Hi there. 

1. I have no idea where the stones are made, I buy them already made as a transfer design. I think they are made in China. 

2. No re-press? Okay thanks.

3. You and I know that, but customers will wash them in warm or hot water and even put them in the hot dryer. Even if you include directions.

Thank you for your help.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

proworlded said:


> Bill. I would recommend NOT doing the second 10 second press. There is no need and it might dry out the glue. Also, could be the quality of the stones. Always difficult pinpoint the cause.


Hi. Okay maybe I am doing too much pressing. Will cut out the 2nd press and see how it works. I don't think the stones are the best, but the company does their own decorating with their own clothing line, so they should be pretty good. Maybe I just need more practice. Thank you.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Ask them. If they are Korean they will last longer than the Chinese stones.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

binki said:


> Ask them. If they are Korean they will last longer than the Chinese stones.


Okay will do. Thank you.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

350* seems a bit high to me, and, like others have said no need to repress. I press mine at 320* for 15 seconds


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

mfatty500 said:


> 350* seems a bit high to me, and, like others have said no need to repress. I press mine at 320* for 15 seconds


Thanks. I will cut up some of the designs and do some testing today. I may be using too much heat and pressing time, burning up and vaporizing the glue.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

Top Potential Issues:

1) Quality of the glue on your stones
- Korean stones are better than Chinese - ask your vendor where their stones are manufactured. Hint, "Korean Quality" does not necessarily mean they were manufactured in Korea.
- Before placing your transfer on the shirt, turn it over and look at the glue on the back side. In general, does the glue look like it's adhered well to the stones or is some of it peeling away from the stones?

2) Consistency of the glue on your stones
- In the manufacturing process, some stones don't get as much glue as others and some not at all. Before placing your transfer on the shirt, turn it over and look at the back side to ensure all stones have glue. Replace the stones that have light or no coverage. 

3) Consistent time, temp and pressure
- We heat the press to 340 degrees then pre-press the garment for at least 5 seconds to remove moisture then press for 17-20 seconds at Medium pressure then cold peel. Everyone has their own opinion on time, temp and pressure -- you should contact your transfer supplier to confirm their recommended process for application as a starting point.
- If you have different size stones within the design, you may want to consider using a heat press pillow to help ensure even pressure across the design. If the stones are falling off in the same general area of the design on each shirt this could be your problem.
- We also use a heat probe to test various points on our heat platen every so often to ensure even heat.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> Top Potential Issues:
> 
> 1) Quality of the glue on your stones
> - Korean stones are better than Chinese - ask your vendor where their stones are manufactured. Hint, "Korean Quality" does not necessarily mean they were manufactured in Korea.
> ...


Thank you for your detailed advice. Funny you mention about looking at the glue. I have been, and they don't look like glue at all. They all have black plastic looking "caps" on the back of them. That must be some sort of black plastic formed glue. Not what I expected to see.

I do have designs that have many different sizes of stones, as well as tacks and "bars" on them. They look great, they are motorcycle biker designs so they make the motorcycle with a combo of stones and sliver tack looking things and bars.

Yesterday I took apart 8 wing sets and tried different ways of pressing them. 350F, 340F and 330F. All around medium-high pressure. Some I peeled warm, others cold. Some I pressed again, others not. All at 15 seconds of press time.

I even did one that i turned inside out after the first press and pressed the other side too. At least not a single stone came off on the tape while peeling. I actually have them all in the wash right now. Will let you know how they come out in a few hours. Thanks again.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

OK so the design has a mixture of glass rhinestones and metal rhinestuds and possibly nailheads in various shapes and sizes? Uggh...that's definitely a tricky one...newbie or not!


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> OK so the design has a mixture of glass rhinestones and metal rhinestuds and possibly nailheads in various shapes and sizes? Uggh...that's definitely a tricky one...newbie or not!


Well no, not the ones I have washed so far, but most do. The test design I have done is a normal "wings" design with all stones the same size. I just took them out of the wash. I did 8 different test wings. BTW the wash was warm water, medium wash. I did turn the shirts inside out. So the results are,,,,,,

Very mixed. Out of the eight, 5 all had 2-3 stones come off.  They are always stones deep in the design, never an outside edge one. The 3 that had no stones come off was: 

One I did at 350F, warm peel, 5 sec. repress with parchment paper. But the other one was at 340F, warm peel, 2nd re-press. Then the 3rd one was 340F, cold peel. No re-press.

The first time I washed any I washed a shirt that had two different designs on it that are not the "wings" design. They came out perfect the 1st time. I washed it again with the others and again both designs came out perfect, no stones missing.

So, it could be the design, I have no idea. The only difference with the shirt that had perfect designs was it was a pink shirt, the others are black shirts. Frustrating. 

I do think I will keep the temp down to 340F. But as for re-pressing or warm and cold peel my test is mixed on that. Og course one test wash does not confirm anything. I will keep trying to figure it out.


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

maybe try ordering some stones form trw or here

simply make little squares of stones and press them for trialing 
then if you get good results you know it is not you or your technique but the stones themselves


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Where are the shirts from? Sounds like the quality of stones to me, I have pressed thousands of rhinestone designs . And I can honestly say that any have fallen off. But I made all of mine, the stones were from Shineart


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

mfatty500 said:


> Where are the shirts from? Sounds like the quality of stones to me, I have pressed thousands of rhinestone designs . And I can honestly say that any have fallen off. But I made all of mine, the stones were from Shineart


The shirts are standard Gildan and Hanes cotton tees. It does seem to be the stones, or the design. Like I said I pressed two other designs besides the "wings" design and after 2 washes not a single stone has come off on those. 

Yet this company seems to be good, and they sell their own clothing with their own rhinestone designs on them. You would think they would use good quality stones if they do it themselves. 

Can stock rhinestone designs suffer the same fate as heat press transfer designs, in that the older they sit around the worst they get due to drying out or whatever? Still trying to figure it out.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

All signs definitely point to the stones. Is it a multi-color design or all 1 color? If multi, then are the stones that are falling the same color?


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> All signs definitely point to the stones. Is it a multi-color design or all 1 color? If multi, then are the stones that are falling the same color?


Glad you asked that question. It has 3 colors. The stones that seem to most fall off are the clear ones. I have attached a pic of one of the designs. It comes in pink, purple and red. I used all 3 and the clear stones in the middle of the colored ones seem to be the ones falling off.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

To add to my reply above, the picture below is one that I did and have washed twice. Not a single stone has come off. I put it on a pink tee. It has clear, black and pink stones.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

There are 2 sizes of clear stones in the wings - probably ss6 and ss10 if I had to guess. I'm also going to guess that it's the smaller of the 2 sizes that are falling off?


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> There are 2 sizes of clear stones in the wings - probably ss6 and ss10 if I had to guess. I'm also going to guess that it's the smaller of the 2 sizes that are falling off?


There are some smaller size stones yes, but the ones that are falling off are the bigger ones, which make up 90% of the stones. The other design that has had no stones fall off have smaller stones overall.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm going to guess that the transfers were made with a bad batch of the larger size clear stones.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> I'm going to guess that the transfers were made with a bad batch of the larger size clear stones.


Hmmm, so you can run into some bad batches of stock rhinestone designs then huh? That would make sense. I have a few other designs too that I will put in the wash soon. Waiting to take pics of them before I do.

If those seem fine then that would be the most likely case. The other designs have a wide mix of stone sizes, nailheads, bars and other stuff. If those stick okay then that must be it. The one below is really mixed!


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

BTW thank you so much everyone for replying and trying to help out. I do very much appreciate it!


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## into the T (Aug 22, 2015)

it's good you brought this up lately,
been learning from the experts here recently and on some of the older threads (this is a great post on general forum discussions)

gives me ideas for mixed-media tees
i've got the cameo with designer edition so i can cut my own templates for rhinestones


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Are you using a teflon pillow inserted in between the shirt when pressing the designs with two different size stones?


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

mfatty500 said:


> Are you using a teflon pillow inserted in between the shirt when pressing the designs with two different size stones?


No, I never used one. I assumed the rubber mat thing on the bottom platen was soft enough for the stones to press into, no? I do have a fitted teflon cover on the lower platen.

If you think I should use one can you give me a link to one you recommend? Thank you.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Looks like a wide variety here: but if you are handy with a sewing machine you could make your using teflon sheets sewn together, you could pick up some foam from a fabric store or Wal-Mart
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=teflon+p...ix=teflon+pillows,aps,151&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_14


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Or from your vinyl supplier that you would buy your vinyl from, if you do that.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

mfatty500 said:


> Or from your vinyl supplier that you would buy your vinyl from, if you do that.


Okay thank you. I think I did get one a long time ago for normal heat transfers to avoid seams. I did not like how bulky they were. But if you think they would help then I'll see what I can find. Thanks again.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

If you haven't been using a teflon pillow inside the shirts...
I would imagine you would see the imprint/outline of the stones on the back side of the tee as well as possible glue seepage... if the stones are being heated enough.
If these transfers are made with Chinese stones... you will always have
inconsistent results.
Since the rhinestuds are hollow, there is only a thin edge of glue adherence.
I know many people use these and they can add alot of interest to complex designs but I never had complete confidence in the long term life of them.
You are absolutely doing the right thing by washing and drying before offering your product to customers.
To hasten your success.. I would suggest you ask your supplier to make the designs you like with either GRADE AAA (highest grade) Korean stones.
If you want to have complete confidence in your product, there is no alternative but to come up with your own designs. If you don't have a vinyl cutter to cut the templates, there are people who will do it for you. Then you can use higher quality cut glass stones like Pellosa from Shineart.
Regardless... always wise to closely inspect the back side of the rhinestone transfer to look for slight irregularities or worst case.. missing glue and chipped edges... not always obvious from the front.
LEO


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

LEO said:


> If you haven't been using a teflon pillow inside the shirts...
> I would imagine you would see the imprint/outline of the stones on the back side of the tee as well as possible glue seepage... if the stones are being heated enough.
> If these transfers are made with Chinese stones... you will always have
> inconsistent results.
> ...


Good morning. Thanks for all the advice. I have not seen any glue on the back of the shirts yet. I did get glue on the lower platen when I did a test of turning the shirt inside out and pressing again on the other side after pressing the design on the front.

I can see there is more to rhinestones than simply buying a pre-made design from someone, pressing it and forgetting about it. I assume the pre-made designs you can buy from the big stock company's like The Wild Side are the cheaper China stones?

I do love the designs this place has and they are only an hour drive from me. I will talk to them and find out if they can have the designs made of the higher grade stones. I think they just get the designs pre-made in China once they give them the design they give them.

But yes I do want them to stay on and be good quality. I have ranted on here a lot in the past about heat press plastisol transfers that don't work. Sometimes I think about getting out of the heat press biz because frankly I think true screen-printing is the only way to make real high quality shirt designs. 

Anyways thanks again, I will keep testing and studying up on everything.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

always put 'something' inside the shirt before pressing... even if it's just a piece of cardboard.
Doesn't have to be a teflon pillow.. can be a piece of parchment paper or teflon sheet.
As you are pressing now... not seeing a sign of 'imprint' of the stones on the back of the shirt..maybe not enough pressure.
*If you are going to repress inside out... make sure to use a clean piece of parchment paper. If teflon.. wipe it well before using on the inside out repress.
LEO


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

Since this is the most active thread on this part of the forum in a while, I figured I'd take the opportunity to ask how everyone feels the rhinestone industry is trending. Are your sales over the last year or 2 been up, down or flat in this decoration method?


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> Since this is the most active thread on this part of the forum in a while, I figured I'd take the opportunity to ask how everyone feels the rhinestone industry is trending. Are your sales over the last year or 2 been up, down or flat in this decoration method?


Well since I just started into rhinestones I hope the trend is going up!  I've been doing normal heat press transfer designs for years. I went to a trade show a few months ago and saw this company with all their beautiful rhinestone designs hanging on display.

I sell to motorcycle bikers, and lady bikers like to wear a lot of "bling". Patches and designs and stones. If you go to a biker event you always find booths with beautiful custom rhinestone shirts, pants, shorts, belts, you name it. Very elaborate too, like both sides of a shirt and down each sleeve.

I saw this company had Daytona Beach bike week 2019 rhinestone designs so I thought it would be a good seller. The event is a few weeks away but many buy a shirt before to wear at the event. Have not sold one yet, which actually surprises me. But maybe I just need more time. 

Anyways I think lots of different rhinestone designs will sell very well to biker ladies. I'm putting them on lady denim vest, denim biker shirts and so on. It's a pretty steady demand in the biker niche.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

BikerBill said:


> Well since I just started into rhinestones I hope the trend is going up!  I've been doing normal heat press transfer designs for years. I went to a trade show a few months ago and saw this company with all their beautiful rhinestone designs hanging on display.
> 
> I sell to motorcycle bikers, and lady bikers like to wear a lot of "bling". Patches and designs and stones. If you go to a biker event you always find booths with beautiful custom rhinestone shirts, pants, shorts, belts, you name it. Very elaborate too, like both sides of a shirt and down each sleeve.
> 
> ...


Yeah, biker ladies is definitely a good market for bling! Do you sell online, in store or at events?


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> Yeah, biker ladies is definitely a good market for bling! Do you sell online, in store or at events?


I only sell online. I am 90% deaf and can't deal with talking and dealing with customers in person. Rhinestone items would sell better in person however, since they look a lot better live than in a picture. 

I go to Daytona bike week each year to get ideas for new things to sell. It's amazing how much stuff you find. Too bad rhinestones don't stick to leather well, I sell a lot of leather jackets and vest.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

BikerBill said:


> I only sell online. I am 90% deaf and can't deal with talking and dealing with customers in person. Rhinestone items would sell better in person however, since they look a lot better live than in a picture.
> 
> I go to Daytona bike week each year to get ideas for new things to sell. It's amazing how much stuff you find. Too bad rhinestones don't stick to leather well, I sell a lot of leather jackets and vest.


What's your website? Would love to take a look!


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> What's your website? Would love to take a look!


Well I sell on Amazon, eBay and have 3 of my own retail websites. Been putting my new stuff on the 3rd party sites first as I sell the most there. But my main big biker site is here:

https://leathersupreme.com/

I still have last years bike week shirts for sale on there, have way too much going on and I am behind on lots of stuff. I have products just sitting in boxes as I don't have time to take pics and list them.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

So an update. Since the stones falling off those "wings" designs was very upsetting to me I made all the rest of the designs I got. Just washed them all. Every single other design came out fine, no problems. Also I have now washed a shirt with 2 other designs on it 3 times now, all is fine. 

So it seems to be only that wings design. But it comes in 3 colors and all of them have stones come off. Don't understand why, if it is bad stones or the way the design is? I even washed a design that has several size stones, nail heads and bars. It came out fine on 2 different ones. Below are the other designs I washed that came out fine.

What do you think it the problem with the wings design, or anything you can think of? Thanks.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

BikerBill said:


> So an update. Since the stones falling off those "wings" designs was very upsetting to me I made all the rest of the designs I got. Just washed them all. Every single other design came out fine, no problems. Also I have now washed a shirt with 2 other designs on it 3 times now, all is fine.
> 
> So it seems to be only that wings design. But it comes in 3 colors and all of them have stones come off. Don't understand why, if it is bad stones or the way the design is? I even washed a design that has several size stones, nail heads and bars. It came out fine on 2 different ones. Below are the other designs I washed that came out fine.
> 
> What do you think it the problem with the wings design, or anything you can think of? Thanks.


Is it still the larger clear stones that are falling off?


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

YourLogoGear said:


> Is it still the larger clear stones that are falling off?


Yes, the inside clear stones. I do have one wings design that has come out fine after 2 washes. But 8 others have stones fall off. I'm wondering if it is because that design has many close rows of stones, it is a very compact design.

Maybe the inside stones need more pressure and a longer press time to get hot and stick? I'm glad the others seem to be coming out okay.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

BikerBill said:


> Yes, the inside clear stones. I do have one wings design that has come out fine after 2 washes. But 8 others have stones fall off. I'm wondering if it is because that design has many close rows of stones, it is a very compact design.
> 
> Maybe the inside stones need more pressure and a longer press time to get hot and stick? I'm glad the others seem to be coming out okay.


That is possible but I'm still betting on a bad batch of the large clear stones being used. You can use the teflon heat press pillow suggested previously to test the even pressure theory.


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