# Ceramic Tiles - for outside use?????



## AzEtchWorks (Oct 4, 2009)

Hello All 
I sublimated ceramic tiles quite frequently but have never done them for customers wanting to use them outside. Has anyone had experience with this? Do they hold up well in the elements? Do they fade over time as most things do? 

I have a sports team that wants to put plaques or something of that nature up on a wall behind the dugout to note the local people and businesses that donated and helped build the field. We are looking at etching Marble tiles which I can do but then I thought sublimated tiles would be cool as you have a few more design options.. but have no experience on the durability to know if I should even suggest it.. 

Thanks in advance for any assistance...


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

I suspect fading, do one tile and cover half - leave in the sun and see the difference.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Dye sub printing will fade in the sun light. To protect it you can apply a film laminate over it and it will last a long time. Use "cast" type laminate, the kind you would use if you wrapped a car with printing.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

AzEtchWorks said:


> Hello All
> I sublimated ceramic tiles quite frequently but have never done them for customers wanting to use them outside. Has anyone had experience with this? Do they hold up well in the elements? Do they fade over time as most things do?
> 
> I have a sports team that wants to put plaques or something of that nature up on a wall behind the dugout to note the local people and businesses that donated and helped build the field. We are looking at etching Marble tiles which I can do but then I thought sublimated tiles would be cool as you have a few more design options.. but have no experience on the durability to know if I should even suggest it..
> ...


Bottom line is don't use any sublimated tile outside. Some sell coating and films and such, but they just at best delay the inevitable fade from the sun.

There does exist a good process for this, it uses a special ceramic toner to be used on a modified laser or laser copier. The systems are very expensive.

These tiles can be used for outdoor murals or for full photo color "memorial" tiles that go on gravesites. The "ceramic" toner gets it's color from minerals ... for example certain minerals like rocks can keep color for millions of years and no sun fade effect. The tiles used can be uncoated commercial grade building material type tiles and very durable for outdoor usage.

For indoor use they can work better for shower or tub areas or as a kitchen backsplash, more durable than coated sublimation tiles.

I don't have a system but a very comprehensive forum thread can be found here at this link below.

I visited a company that sells the systems and also posted some pictures of samples they made for me.

This is the only thing that really works outdoors. The systems are expensive but some people that have these systems can make the decals for you if you have a kiln and know how to "fire" them if you don't have the start up funds.

DSSI


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I started sublimation 13 years ago and I have tried about every way out there to find something that would protect the sublimation from fading in sunlight... So far no luck...the product has not arrived yet


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

charles95405 said:


> I started sublimation 13 years ago and I have tried about every way out there to find something that would protect the sublimation from fading in sunlight... So far no luck...the product has not arrived yet


Yes, just about anything that can be effective and block UV also will diminish or "cloud" the viewed image quality. Still wishing someone could design clear sunglasses for me that stay clear in bright sunlight


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Can those that have used UV Laminate tell us which ones failed, so no one will repeat the same mistake. Which brands failed.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

skdave said:


> Can those that have used UV Laminate tell us which ones failed, so no one will repeat the same mistake. Which brands failed.


They all "fail" it's just a question of how long _before_ they fail.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> They all "fail" it's just a question of how long _before_ they fail.


Please answer the question Mike. Name a brand that has failed you.


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## AzEtchWorks (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the replies and experiences.... I think I will be better off not to mention it to them at all and just etch things as their original plan... It was just a thought on my part having so many more design options with the sublimation end of things... 

Thanks Again


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

skdave said:


> Please answer the question Mike. Name a brand that has failed you.


It's a physics problem, it's real simple, when you see an image it is because light is reflected from it, if you block light from reaching it, you block light from being reflected from it, therefore your image view is dimished when you block light going to it. Anything that blocks UV (light which is at a wavelength above which we can see) also blocks a good spectrum of visible light below UV.

I have tried various coatings to enhance durabilty, a coating needs to be ultra clear if you don't want to reduce the reflected light from it, use a "cloudy" coating or a tinted coating you reduce the amount of light which hits the image, but also reduce the amount of light that reflects as well. Light reflection, refraction, and filtering is a fundamental physics property of light.

You can slow down the UV fade process somewhat, the more you slow it down the more it is harder to see the image. If you laminated window tint film over the tile, yes you can slow it down, but you defeat the purpose of the art, to be able to view it in it's true beauty.

To answer your question, I don't try any of those UV laminates for outdoor tiles the same reason I don't throw a ball into the air and expect it not to fall back to the ground if it is not interfered with because I understand and believe in physics. Lot's of snake oil claims out there about UV protection. If someone trys and sells me water I can burn in my car instead of gasoline, I don't try and see if it will fail or not, because I know better.

The only solution is to use something with base color materials that cannot fade.

Now ask yourself the common sense question, if anything existed don't you think you could laminate your hardcopy photos and place outside safely or in a sunroom? You could put polarization film on the photo but would be like looking at a photo thorugh sunglasses. 

If it is clear enough to not distort the image it cannot block enough UV from UV intense sunlight.

And how do you define "fail"? 10% fade? 25% fade? and how long a period of time before you get to the 10% fade is acceptable? I've been making tiles for a very long time, I would have thought by now if some miracle occurs and a real solution is found, the rest of us would have heard of it and we would all be doing it? 

There are indoor standards for photofade and they use very intense UV light to "accelerate" so you don't have to wait 80 years to "quantify" fade. When you nail down the snakeoil salesmen that claims outdoor UV protection for sublimated tiles suggest you ask about their testing Methodology, and published results ... they always seem to come up with BS, nothing based on science.

Or you can laminate the tiles, sell to your customer, then hope that known physics principles are not true, you have that "magic" solution because no one else other than that "saleman" has figured out to cheat physics.


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