# contractor "scam" Bob Nichols Hoof and Woof



## huey642 (Aug 22, 2009)

delete post


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## Zippy Doodah (Jul 10, 2011)

If your in the USA, that would be a Civil matter. If you have a contract signed by the customer, you could always take them to Small Claims Court. If they never received any goods, though, you will have a tough time collecting. In your own admission, there was a lot of mis-communication. In the future, if you don't already, get everything in writing and signed.


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## huey642 (Aug 22, 2009)

yes...been doing this over 20 years and took a chance on this one. I cut it off at 6,000 just think what it could have been if i kept it going . Again....he paid fine for a a while then slowed down in addition there were major errors on orders that were 100% his fault however he didn't get paid from customer so that is where he started slowing down. thansk for reply.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

small claims, get a judgement, when he doesn't pay file for a statement of assets, when he fails to appear a bench warrent will be issued for his arrest.


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## Zippy Doodah (Jul 10, 2011)

binki said:


> small claims, get a judgement, when he doesn't pay file for a statement of assets, when he fails to appear a bench warrent will be issued for his arrest.


 I imagine this would depend upon State statutes, but I don't believe a bench warrant can be (or would be) issued for someone who hasn't been arrested or promised to appear. On the other hand in a Civil judgement the person failing to appear and defend himself would forfiet. We don't put people in jail in our Country for private debt. If the person took possession of goods under false pretense that would be considered theft. That, without a signed contract would be impossible to prove. I think in this case as you have stated it, you'd be better off to chock it up to education. I think you have to look at how much more it would cost you to persue. Sometimes in cases like this your best bet is, probably to try and negotiate with the customer to get paid (or a portion of it, maybe to cover your costs), for what they have recieved and not paid for. Good Luck


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## littlefatbuddy (Oct 8, 2012)

Depending on the state you are in.......If you go the civil route and win the judgement against him, and he does not pay in the specified time, in most cases you would be able to put a lien on his property and some personal assets. If he ever sold a house, property, car, anything of value that requires recording; then they would be required by law to satisfy your liens before releasing any funds to him. It is most similar to a mechanic's lien for car repairs.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

What Randy said.

Small claims court is useful if "Bob" (you ARE using a pseudonym, right?!) are local to one another. Otherwise you will probably need to sue him in his locale, unless your contract specifies otherwise.

If you have a contract and a good paper trail, and you and "Bob" are not local to one another, you might also consider selling your debt to a debt collector. They will collect on your behalf, taking up to 50% of what they receive. In many states, debt collectors are not permitted to take the debtor to small claims court, so their collection is solely based on the pressure they can exert.

Finally, if you used Bob's real name in this thread, I strongly recommend you change it immediately. Ask Rodney to help you edit the thread as necessary. Should "Bob" find out he could sue you for more than the $6K he allegedly owes.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

GordonM said:


> What Randy said.
> Finally, if you used Bob's real name in this thread, I strongly recommend you change it immediately. Ask Rodney to help you edit the thread as necessary. Should "Bob" find out he could sue you for more than the $6K he allegedly owes.


Not really. I just happen to have been lucky enough to have been requested to provide info to the lawyers of a multi-million dollar corp that was suing an individual for the same thing, only a hundred times worse. It ended up that the judge tossed the whole case out of court on the grounds that it was frivolous. As a result I ended up not having to provide any info to to lawyers.

In the situation here the TS has a personal experience with the person/company he named so it would be even harder for this person to sue him for putting his name on the web. No judge anywhere would entertain a law suite for this.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

It's foolish to air your legal issues in a public forum before they are settled in court. If nothing else, the *threat* of bringing a libel suit might be leverage enough against the OP to prevent him from moving ahead with debt collection, if that's even warranted. He's lost before he's even begun.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

This is in California. If you win a judgment and the loser doesn't pay you file for a statement of assets. They list all of their assets and the court seizes them, sells them and pays you. If they fail to appear an arrest warrant is issued. It is like not paying child support or other court ordered debts. Basically contempt of court which is an offense you can go to jail for. 




Zippy Doodah said:


> I imagine this would depend upon State statutes, but I don't believe a bench warrant can be (or would be) issued for someone who hasn't been arrested or promised to appear. On the other hand in a Civil judgement the person failing to appear and defend himself would forfiet. We don't put people in jail in our Country for private debt. If the person took possession of goods under false pretense that would be considered theft. That, without a signed contract would be impossible to prove. I think in this case as you have stated it, you'd be better off to chock it up to education. I think you have to look at how much more it would cost you to persue. Sometimes in cases like this your best bet is, probably to try and negotiate with the customer to get paid (or a portion of it, maybe to cover your costs), for what they have recieved and not paid for. Good Luck


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Also make sure they pay enough of a deposit up front to cover the cost of your materials. Make them sign off on the artwork too.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

binki said:


> This is in California. If you win a judgment and the loser doesn't pay you file for a statement of assets. They list all of their assets and the court seizes them, sells them and pays you. If they fail to appear an arrest warrant is issued. It is like not paying child support or other court ordered debts. Basically contempt of court which is an offense you can go to jail for.


This requires a fairly narrow turn of events. That is, failing to respond to the filing (SC-134 to be exact), which is a court order. The notice of the filing is handled like a subpoena, typically hand-delivered by law enforcement or other process server. Anyone who ignores it would have to be just plain stupid. By this point they admit to the debt and comply, which is not the same as actually getting any money from them.

The warrant (which you must request and pay for) is for failing to appear, not for failing to pay the debt.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

GordonM said:


> This requires a fairly narrow turn of events. That is, failing to respond to the filing (SC-134 to be exact), which is a court order. The notice of the filing is handled like a subpoena, typically hand-delivered by law enforcement or other process server. Anyone who ignores it would have to be just plain stupid. By this point they admit to the debt and comply, which is not the same as actually getting any money from them.
> 
> The warrant (which you must request and pay for) is for failing to appear, not for failing to pay the debt.


That is correct. That is the point. The statement of assets is to get the court to force payment. If they don't show then they get a warrant for their arrest. Been through this process to collect a judgement. It works.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

We're talking somewhat at cross-purposes here. The statement of assets doesn't force payment. It is a listing by the debtor of current assets; it's then up to the judge to determine if any of those assets can be seized to settle the debt. 

The point here is that the debtor does not go to jail for not paying the debt. Just wanted to make sure everyone understands this.

If the point is about how to collect, there are faster, cheaper, and easier ways. In the case of a business or online retailer, like this, there's the old fashioned bank levy, which is something like $15 to file. The bank info is often easily discoverable. It's more or less immediate. Debtor examinations can take a long time, cost lots more, and provide no additional assurance you'll get anything. But as you found, it can be effective if nothing else has worked.


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## Zippy Doodah (Jul 10, 2011)

binki said:


> This is in California. If you win a judgment and the loser doesn't pay you file for a statement of assets. They list all of their assets and the court seizes them, sells them and pays you. If they fail to appear an arrest warrant is issued. It is like not paying child support or other court ordered debts. Basically contempt of court which is an offense you can go to jail for.


 What you fail to see is that in order to actually get to that point it would be years and thousands of dollars. Way more than $6000. As well as, there are two sides to every story and to get a 100% fault judgement would be impossible. And agin, is there a Contract? Is it water tight? Not to mention, If the defendent is in another State you would have to file in their State and the laws of that State would be in effect. And then as icing on the cupcake ..if it got to that point were they had wages or assets garnished, they would simply file chapter 7 and you are left holding an empty bag. It is not that easy to sieze someone's assets, unless you are the US Government. Theall the rules change. Even in a BK, you are allowed to keep many things. You might win the fight, but you won't win the battle..


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

huey642 said:


> yes...been doing this over 20 years and took a chance on this one.


I sent you a PM but accidently to ZIppy Doodah instead (now he's seen my darkside) 

We've all been there in some respect.

Have you tried a formal payment request letter sent registered mail? At some point include "I've found you have a significant web presence and seem to be very visible and respected amongst equestrian circles. I do not wish to publicly discredit you nor tarnish your reputation. My goal is solely to collect what is owed me. I'm willing to make arrangements..."

Good luck with the situation.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I sent a PM to zippy asking him to edit his post with the OP's quote since he removed the post. If he doesn't and Huey642 you want it removed hit the report bad post button and ask for it to be removed. I am sure Rodney will edit it. We all make a post we regret every now and then. I try not to quote any questionable post in case the poster changes their mind. I wish the forum software had a way to either block a person from quoting if a person wishes or if a quote is deleted the quote is also deleted. I know this is very popular forum software maybe if you agree we can all send the maker a request for that feature to be added. Don't send any request to the t-shirt forum as they don't make the software.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Zippy Doodah said:


> What you fail to see is that in order to actually get to that point it would be years and thousands of dollars. ...


small claims court. $40 to file the initial, $100 for a process server, $40 to file for a statement of earnings, 6 hours of time total to drive to court and wait your turn both times total.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Zippy Doodah said:


> What you fail to see is that in order to actually get to that point it would be years and thousands of dollars. Way more than $6000. As well as, there are two sides to every story and to get a 100% fault judgement would be impossible. And agin, is there a Contract? Is it water tight? Not to mention, If the defendent is in another State you would have to file in their State and the laws of that State would be in effect. And then as icing on the cupcake ..if it got to that point were they had wages or assets garnished, they would simply file chapter 7 and you are left holding an empty bag. It is not that easy to sieze someone's assets, unless you are the US Government. Theall the rules change. Even in a BK, you are allowed to keep many things. You might win the fight, but you won't win the battle..


The cost will depend on your local. In my local I can file for $140 for up to $4500. Since the transaction takes place from here I can file here and would have to pay a fee for the notice to be sent if outside the state. Yes the person can file bankruptcy but must prove they can. You simply can't file bankruptcy and still have enough assets to live high on the hog. If they have filed in the last 7 years you can't file again. They have started the same here where a debt is considered like a bad check if not paid for by the terms set forth by the court. The will throw you in jail and even work release till the debt is paid. I don't need a contract. Just an invoice and proof I supplied what's on the invoice. I take pictures and if sent in the mail always use a tracking number which shows delivery and weight. I have had to do this so I am talking from experience and not out my you know what!!!!!

Edit. Small claims takes much less time then a bankruptcy proceeding so the person may themselves in jail before they get their initial bankruptcy hearing.


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