# fading after washing need help



## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

I had a customer ($3,500.00 job)complain that the shirts are fading after one wash. I kept the shirts for 36hrs before giving them to them. I am using JSSP and the corba ink system @ 375 for 35 seconds with heavy pressure and on Gildan 2000 white shirts. After pressing I release paper by pulling shirt. I then place parchment paper on top and repress them for 15-20 seconds. What is happen? any thoughts? or is this normal.
Thanks, Mike


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Are you using pigment inks or dye inks? Dye inks will wash out. Are you pre-pressing the shirts to remove moisture first?


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## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

Iben thanks, and I preheat but not press. I pat the press head up and down for about 5-9 sec. and yes it is a pigment ink (cp650). Thanks for the reply, Mike


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

Repress with parchmrnt 5 - 8 secs.

Something doesn't sound right... JPSS 375* for 30 secs.... and repress 5-8 secs... should work GREAT... 

LEO


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

m33mcg said:


> Iben thanks, and I preheat but not press. I pat the press head up and down for about 5-9 sec. and yes it is a pigment ink (cp650). Thanks for the reply, Mike


You need to prepress. You want all the moisture out of the shirt BEFORE you put the transfer on, otherwise it could interfere with the sticking process.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

What do folks here like to use for repress: parchment or Teflon?


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

I use 400 @ 40 with the samr system. No repress and no wash out. Use butcher paper for moister block. Tried all kinds of paper and i get mine from home depot paint department. 

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I used parchment paper.


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## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

I jet did another order but it was only 30 shirts and this time I did prepress. Hopefully we solved the problem. So You guys are using a paper during the prepress? I did not do that of have done that. If you are using paper during the prepress when or how often do you change out the paper. Once again thanks guys


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I use teflon or kraft paper for the prepress and press and parchment for the post-press. I don't change my paper unless it gets ink on it. I clean the teflon with alcohol.


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## Gecko Signs NT (Aug 3, 2012)

We use craft paper for the prepress AND press. Been using the same piece for 4 months now


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## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

How much ink should be on the transfer paper after pressing? I still have an image left on my paper. It looks like the draft or lowest print setting that is left on the paper. 

As to the fading problem it is mostly the 100% cotton fibers fraying and coming threw.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

A light image left is normal but should be very faded. Make sure you have all your printer settings per cobras instructions. I press 15 sec to remove moisture then you have to let sit and cool down. If you stick JSSP on too soon moisture is still there then press 360-375 35 sec with Teflon and heavy pressure. Then peel immediately and strech image gently afew times. You will loose the most amount of ink on the first wash but never had a complaint.


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## suzamac (Mar 18, 2008)

Have you tested your shirts before selling them? I am amazed that people buy systems and then never test their processes. Get out a sharpie, change one variable, i.e. time, temp, pressure, dwell time and then note the variable on the shirt with the Sharpie. Then take the shirts home and wash and dry them numerous times. I found out that the pressure can be pretty important. Magic Touch who sells laser transfers recommends Insta Presses because they can deliver 70psi on a manual press. We used air presses (Hix) that we bought online on eBay.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Sue. Very good info. It also surprises me that people don't test before selling. For the first few years in selling any garment. Heat transfer, dye sub or screen printing I would print 1 extra garment and test it before giving customer items. Then I would continue to wash on a regular bases. I would use the shirts as rags not take proper care just in case someone would say they had a problem. I will still keep a garment on a new customer that I may suspect a problem from as there has been a few report a problem and I say bring the shirts back and if there's a problem I'll reprint or refund but only on what you return. Never had anyone show up after claiming a problem.


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## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

Yes, I have tested and have been doing this for over 2 yrs now. I used 100% cotton (non- combed)Gildan 2000 for that job per customer request. They didn't want a 50/50 blend. I did not think about them fraying compared to the blended tees . I have some shirts that still look great after 2yrs so I was a little concerned as to my process. Thanks for all the help.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

The JSSP is great for 100% cotton and 50/50. I have used them on Gildan 2000,5000, and 8000 without issue. 

I hope tha you didn't take offense to my comment it wasn't directly toward you. I would get 1 back and compare to new. 1 other thing is if your ink sits for a bit the pigment particles and the water portion can seperate. I always give them a shake so that the pigment particles get distributed even though out the ink as this is what makes the pigment inks so durable.


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## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

I did call Richard at cobra ink because I have had my ink over a year (last of the bottles). He said self life was 6 mo. but have tested bottles up to a year with good results.But said I should buy new, which I did. I am going to try your test to get a better idea what works the best. Thanks, mike


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

He is good at what he dose. Good luck to you.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

m33mcg said:


> I did call Richard at cobra ink because I have had my ink over a year (last of the bottles). He said self life was 6 mo. but have tested bottles up to a year with good results.But said I should buy new, which I did. I am going to try your test to get a better idea what works the best. Thanks, mike


Let us know. I haven't ordered ink from cobra in 18-24 moths and just did some shirts last week no problems. I don't do many transfers anymore. Just a few times a year.


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## suzamac (Mar 18, 2008)

The Gildan 2000 should do just fine. Although we used the Gildan 8000 50/50 as our std shirt, we had many 2000's printed without a problem so I feel your pain. As others have suggested have them bring in the shirts to see for yourself. We found that the first washing would fade the print somewhat but it never really got any worse. I had a customer bring in a shirt for a reorder and the print was still good but the shirt had been washed and worn so many times it was falling apart. Sometimes it is a mismatch in expectation vs outcome.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

A $3500 job with inkjet prints? Holy cow. Why not screen print them?


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## m33mcg (Jan 12, 2011)

It was a two part job and did not feel comfortable with screen printing on Black Poly.


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## RoccoDaisy (Sep 23, 2012)

I have just pressed my first few tshirts ever. very exciting. used JPSS light fabric paper on 100% cotton t shirt. 185 degrees C for 30 seconds. Didnt re press but did press before with no paper to remove moisture. Then put transfer straight on when t shirt hot. After one wash at 40 degrees C with regular sensitive washing powder and fabric softener it has faded quite a bit. Any tips? For re pressing should you just use parchment paper and re press straight away or let cool first? Any advice greatly received as i am a true novice :0)


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

RoccoDaisy said:


> After one wash at 40 degrees C with regular sensitive washing powder and fabric softener it has faded quite a bit. Any tips? For re pressing should you just use parchment paper and re press straight away or let cool first? Any advice greatly received as i am a true novice :0)


If you try to put too much ink down the surplus will just wash away. After the first wash an over-saturated print will show obvious fade before-and-after. After a while you will be able to better gauge the printing settings you should use for an optimal print.

You must use pigment (not dye) inks. Epson printers come with pigment inks, and replacement cartridges with pigment inks for heat pressing are widely available. Other printers, like Canon, use dye inks and these will not yield good results.

You need to have very firm pressure with JPSS. This sets the polymer coating deep into the fabric. Repressing the coating -- which has the ink on it -- pushes the coating even further.

For repressing you should do the first press, then promptly remove the JPSS paper. Once removed, *gently* stretch the fabric while still hot. Lay the shirt down flat and let cool for about 20-30 seconds. Repress for another 30 seconds, also very firm pressure, using parchment paper. After repress, gently stretch again. 

Throw the parchment paper away after one use, so that you don't get any ink transfer to the next shirt you do.

Wait at least 24 hours before first wash. Turn the shirt inside out so that the decoration is on the inside -- less abrasion that way. Do NOT use fabric softener, bleach (chlorine or enzymatic), or harsh detergent. Don't use a detergent made for whites ... it's got a bleach in it as well as optical brighteners that can cause the printing to have a faded look.


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## RoccoDaisy (Sep 23, 2012)

Thank you GordonM for your comments. 

I am using a new Epson S22 printer with a Non-Oem pigment ink CISS. 

I have not really experimented with pressure as just using the press at the pressure it arrived at. Maybe I need to tighten it up more.

I waited 24hrs before washing then i turned it inside out and washed it in with my normal white washing which needed doing so the machine was running a full load. I thought I may aswell give it a normal wash rather than a careful wash as that is probably wot most customers would do to it! Do you supply washing care instructions with your garment? No one is going to really wash it on its own with no fabric softener and non bleach powder if its on a white tshirt. Are they?

Is it better to use poly/cotton blend tshirts? Do they fade less? I am in uk and dont know where to buy them.

Thanks again for your help


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## dmfelder (Oct 25, 2008)

Regarding pre-pressing, there are two moisture factors here: steam and absorption. Keep in mind that pressing with Teflon doesn't extract as much moisture from the garment than using something like parchment paper.


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## RoccoDaisy (Sep 23, 2012)

Thank you for that. I have just bought some parchment paper so can try pre press using that. Can you use ordinary printer (office) paper to repress? Cos wen i tried that I got some ink on the paper so can just throw away. Dont want to throw away a sheet of parchment paper every time for re pressing? My press has a teflon coated plate so i dont use an extra layer for pressing on light fabrics


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## dcpromoprint (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi,I am new to sublimation printing and am looking to bye a complete set up package for t-shirts,mugs etc.
I have seen combi presses on ebay for around £350,Has anyone used these machine and if so how good/bad are they.Also i have bought an epson s22 with sub inks,The problem i have is that the image looks very faded on sub paper,should this be the case.Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
D


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## dmfelder (Oct 25, 2008)

Rocco,

I've no idea about "regular office paper," but my suspicion is that it could work, but wouldn't be as effective. It's also normally much smaller. Try it and let us know.

Note that you can normally re-use parchment for a while. We use parchment in certain cases for our POD DTG printing cure, and we frequently pre-press white shirts to remove moisture.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Depending on the amount of ink the parchment paper may provide better protection, but regular copy paper will often work. You just have to try. I think you'll find, though, that as you do bigger designs the parchment paper will be much cheaper. 

With either one, please recycle -- don't throw into the trash!


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## RoccoDaisy (Sep 23, 2012)

thanks. i now have some parchment paper so am going to try that for pre press and re press and see what happens. Can you repress after the t shirt has been left for a couple of days? wondered if that would help secure the image


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

As long as you don't wash the garment I suppose there's no time-limit on how long after you can repress. But I don't think waiting has any value. Just allow the shirt to cool first, and repress. The idea is that the second press helps to remelt the polymer coating on the shirt, and drive it deeper into the fabric.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

dcpromoprint said:


> Hi,I am new to sublimation printing and am looking to bye a complete set up package for t-shirts,mugs etc.
> I have seen combi presses on ebay for around £350,Has anyone used these machine and if so how good/bad are they.Also i have bought an epson s22 with sub inks,The problem i have is that the image looks very faded on sub paper,should this be the case.Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> D


I bought one. Mine does shirts and other flat things, mugs, plates, and caps. They are cheap chinese presses and won't last very long, but you can do a lot of different things with them while the work.


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