# Trying to Lower Costs for Dye-Sub



## shanggeeth (Dec 3, 2013)

Right now I feel like I'm being gouged by my local suppliers.
I'm running a Epson Surecolor F6070 to produce sports uniforms. My overhead is becoming pretty hefty, and I'm wondering if there are different options for me to bring costs down?

Epson adhesive paper (350 Ft) - $160 (After taxes)
1L of Epson ink - $135 (After taxes)

is this a competitive price, or am I being raped by these guys?

My chinese contacts have told me to import the paper from overseas, while also switching to a different ink (ie. Inktec, J-Teck). The problem is my manufacturer said using a different ink will void my Epson warranty.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

Epson's prices are pretty much inline with what you would get from other manufacturers, you aren't going to save much by switching to InkTec's paper and inks, and you would void your warranty, which surely is the ppoint and advantage of going with the Epson sublimation printers.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Why would you void your warranty ? According to the law you can use other ink IF epson determined that the other ink LEAD to the failure they can then void it. 
See Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975
All tho not same printer Epson even says that 3rd party ink does not void the warranty


Epson Stylus Pro 5500, FAQ - Technical Support - Epson America, Inc.

Q:
Will using non-Epson inks in my Pro 5500 printer void my warranty?
A:
Epson does not recommend refilling or using 3rd party ink cartridges. Using these products will not void the product’s original warranty, however, if these 3rd party products cause a failure, the repair of that failure will not be covered under warranty.

However if you signed a for a extended warranty this might apply
Q: Will using a third-party ink void my standard printer warranty? | LexJet.com

Manufacturers can, however, contractually obligate you to use only their inks through an extended warranty agreement. In this case, the manufacturer is providing a service extension in return for the exclusive right to your ink business for only the extended period specified, which is usually an extra year. So, in reality, it’s not just a warranty, but a contract. Unless you have signed on to such an agreement, a standard warranty is not voided simply by the use of third-party inks.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

Isn't the warranty with the F Series printers more of a service contract?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

freebird1963 said:


> Why would you void your warranty ? According to the law you can use other ink IF epson determined that the other ink LEAD to the failure they can then void it.
> See Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975
> All tho not same printer Epson even says that 3rd party ink does not void the warranty
> 
> ...


Mark, 

They state something different for the F series ...

Epson F-Series Dye-Sublimation Transfer Printer | Epson SureColor F6070

"One year limited on-site warranty with product registration (warranty coverage is lost if any non-Epson ink system is used)"

From the product brochure ....

http://www.epson.com/_alfresco/proimaging/products/SureColorF7170/SureColor F6070_F7170 SRG v3.5.pdf

"Warranty Coverage for the printhead and ink delivery system is terminated if the printer is
ever used with new or refilled ink cartridges, inks or ink delivery systems other than the
Epson UltraChrome DS system for which the printer was designed."

They might get around Magnuson-Moss because the entire ink delivery system is unique. There are sealed bag inks and requires chips specific to the bags. A design modification would have to be performed to allow 3rd party stuff, these aren't like other Epson were you just change the carts and your good.

One could claim that they are using equivalent inks but you could never fight them in court against Epson deep pockets and teams of chemists and Engineers. 

If the printer failed due to 3rd party inks then they can still void the warranty even if Magnuson-Moss applies. 

Proving 3rd party inks didn't cause the failure would be way beyond any end user could do, and cost more than what it costs for the printer if you fought them in court.

So your point whether technically correct or not cannot be used _practically_ against them.


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## Canastico (May 21, 2013)

Chinese sublimation paper works perfectly with these printers... Just ask your providers to make 80 meter rolls instead of the traditional 100 meter rolls so that you don't have problems in placing the roll in the printer. The price is much more competitive (I am from Costa Rica and importing from China has helped us improve our business a lot). Regarding ink, there is no way out... You must stay with Epson unless you want to take the risk of losing the warranty. Now, the problem comes when warranty finishes and the printer fails... Parts are terribly expensive; in our case, we've spent about $2000 in parts and technical service and the printer is still giving us trouble. Then, we don't know if we're going to invest more money on fixing it but if we do, we're going to use Chinese ink. 

PD: We have two Epson SureColor f6070 and one f7070.


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## bakaichi (May 1, 2007)

Only problem with the F6070 is

IF you have newer machine, None of the current china ink reset chip will work. So far there is no solution to this yet.

if your printer have V1.10 and V1.11 Firmware, only OEM chip can reset ink counter.

But paper on the other hand, they work pretty good and price is 1/3 or OEM paper


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## mmilisenda (May 28, 2009)

Hola ¿como estas? Soy de argentina. ¿Podrías darme el dato pdel proveedor de papel en China? Acá tenemos problemas de que los proveedores nacionales no dan abasto con la producción de papeles de 160cm y yo acabo de adquirir un F7170 y no consigo continuidad en el papel. Saludos y gracias


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mmilisenda said:


> Hola ¿como estas? Soy de argentina. ¿Podrías darme el dato pdel proveedor de papel en China? Acá tenemos problemas de que los proveedores nacionales no dan abasto con la producción de papeles de 160cm y yo acabo de adquirir un F7170 y no consigo continuidad en el papel. Saludos y gracias


My spanish sucks so I tried an online translator and came up with this ...

*************************************
Hello how are you? I'm from Argentina. You could role in China supplier give me paper supplier in China? ? Here we have problems that domestic suppliers fail to cope with the production of papers of 160 cm and I just bought a F7170 and I can't get continuity in the role. Greetings and thanks
**************************************
I'm not a wide format guy but I thought others might chime in.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

shanggeeth said:


> Right now I feel like I'm being gouged by my local suppliers.
> I'm running a Epson Surecolor F6070 to produce sports uniforms. My overhead is becoming pretty hefty, and I'm wondering if there are different options for me to bring costs down?
> 
> Epson adhesive paper (350 Ft) - $160 (After taxes)
> ...


You have to do your homework before you buy a new printer. 
Because of the hard core rules of Epsom I would never buy one. I pay a lot less for my ink and paper and my prices reflect this.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

shanggeeth said:


> Right now I feel like I'm being gouged by my local suppliers.
> I'm running a Epson Surecolor F6070 to produce sports uniforms. My overhead is becoming pretty hefty, and I'm wondering if there are different options for me to bring costs down?
> 
> Epson adhesive paper (350 Ft) - $160 (After taxes)
> ...


I use different paper and ink than you but I'm getting $160 for 44"x393' Beaver Tacky paper and my inks run about $150 per liter.

One of the suppliers I work with was trying to get me to upgrade to that printer and I remember them quoting me $110 per liter. If I remember who that was I'll send you a PM


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## shanggeeth (Dec 3, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys.

So far prices have go up for me because of the Canadian dollar, but I have managed to save a bit of money.

I too have switched to the 36" 390ft tacky beaver paper. My epson motor does have some trouble with the size of the roll, so I unroll about 50 ft onto an empty tube before starting jobs.

Seeing as I do jerseys mainly, the 36" fits my jobs perfectly without wasting paper.


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## iMadeATshirt (Oct 23, 2015)

I buy 44x400 feet paper rolls for 55$ I also use china ink and buy 6 litters for 200$ including shipping. Epson is taking advantage of you YES! Oh and i have the f6070 too


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## nyx567 (Apr 22, 2006)

skdave said:


> You have to do your homework before you buy a new printer.
> Because of the hard core rules of Epsom I would never buy one. I pay a lot less for my ink and paper and my prices reflect this.


Where do you buy your ink and paper from.


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## LaEstamperiaRD (Mar 6, 2016)

nyx567 said:


> Where do you buy your ink and paper from.


Hello guys im from dominican republic i want to buy ink and chips from china to use it on my epson sure color 6070 sublimation. Any advice ? Do you know if they work ? 

Yamil


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## mrhardeepsingh (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi,

If someone can suggest a vendor for tacky/adhesive paper from China that would be great.


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## inkjetparts (Apr 2, 2016)

Unfortunately you are locked into the Epson ink system but you can buy paper elsewhere. I normally recommend Mimaki or Mutoh printers since you can set either one up with a bulk system. I wouldn't mess with Chinese inks, you might save on ink but will pay for printheads and service later. Just curious what does Epson charge for service calls?


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## mmilisenda (May 28, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> mmilisenda said:
> 
> 
> > Hola ¿como estas? Soy de argentina. ¿Podrías darme el dato pdel proveedor de papel en China? Acá tenemos problemas de que los proveedores nacionales no dan abasto con la producción de papeles de 160cm y yo acabo de adquirir un F7170 y no consigo continuidad en el papel. Saludos y gracias
> ...


....... Thanks!


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