# flaw rate of unisub name badges?



## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

Hi,

I am having a problem with the unisub 2.5x3.5 inch name badges.

the flaw rate is incredible. By flaws I mean the coating is missing from the edges. Sometimes the coating is chipped sometimes the flaw isn't that deep but still the dye doesn't stick to it.

I am running close to 75% flaw rate with this last batch I did. 45 badges and I am going to have to print probably 150 minimum to get 45 that are acceptable.

The design has a black border which is probably not helping. 

Is this common with this name badge? When it is actually chipped I assume that is happening when it is cut? Does unisub cut these or the company I buy them from? ie if the company is cutting them can I solve this problem by buying from another company? if unisub cuts them then I would need a different product entirely, right?

does anyone else experience this kind of flaw rate? 10-15% might be acceptable to me but this is way beyond that.

I do not use the name badges as name badges. I use them as a different size magnet since this size is not offered in magnets. Does unisub expect you to put these in a frame and so the edges are not that important?

I have never had this happen with the 2x3 magnets with rounded corners. flaws have always been user error 

I have looked at the metal through a magnifying glass both before transfer and after and am certain it is the coating that is missing along the edges. when it is chipped you can feel the chips. in some cases, the coating is actually flaking off ! 

these have the plastic protective coating. I put them up against the platen for a couple of seconds and then roll the coating off with the bottom of my thumb. I am not scratching them to get the coating started so I know it is not damage from that process.

any of your thoughts are most appreciated. I need to know if this is the norm for this metal (I will stop using it immediately)

or

is it the company I am buying from (I need to find a different supplier)

or

is it unisub (and thus need to try another company's products).

Thank you!

Melinda


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

I would contact your supplier on this. These are probably coated and then cut but that is really unacceptable in my book as well. If you have a problem with the supplier, contact unisub directly.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

That should not be happening. Not to say that there could be a problem with the coating, but under normal circumstances, that should not happen, and they should be replaced.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Kevin - never having done name tags I may be out on a limb but could this be the same issue we had at first with Subliflex where the paper was shrinking causing the edges to look like there was no coating and printing poorly?

Just a thought.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

The name badges are done face up, so you would not have to worry about that. The coating was either damages and chiped when it was fabricated or it is not adhering correctly.


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

I did find a discussion on another forum by someone saying they consistently had trouble with unisub flaking and damaged coating so he had switched to dynasub (I think it was).

I really need a reliable product  I am really pushing this product and it's beginning to take off for me. My typical order is 40-50 and this is so incredibly frustrating to have piece after piece come out of the heat press damaged. I have started looking at the metal before putting it in the press and setting aside obviously damaged ones. wow, I don't see how anyone would use these. 200 pieces and I got about 20 that didn't have a flaw 

I'd hoped to get responses along the lines of *I've never had a problem with the badges and have thousands*. That way I'd know I need a different supplier !

I will be putting them on the 2x3 magnets until I can find an acceptable vendor for these. I mostly use the 2.5x3.5 name badges because I can bring the price down considerably that way by buying just the metal and the magnets elsewhere. I just found a supplier where I can bring the price down even more. I better run through a box first to be sure this doesn't happen again.

I'm just getting started in the dye sub market and haven't had this problem before. Is this common with this metal?

Thank you again 

Melinda


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

Does anyone think it might be the plastic protective covering on these? The only difference I can see between these and the 2x3 unisub magnets is that these come with the plastic covering to peel off, the x3 magnets don't.

I use thermal tape and have tried using spray adhesive with no difference. Used a different case of unopened I had with no difference. Tried lowering the time and temp (one at a time) with no difference.

phooey. there must be something I am doing or these are flawed or I would think this would be regularly coming up on the board and it isn't. The black design is highlighting any flaws but still.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

First, get me the lot number on the box, we can
run it through our database to see if has any issues.

There were some batches in mid 2011 that
had some issues.

Next, make sure you are not using heavy
pressure as this tends to flex the namebadge.

And finally, I wait say 15-30 seconds before
moving badges to let them cool slightly. I
have found that this helps stabilize the coating
on the edges as it is most fragile when hot.
Failure rate should be just about zero with
new product.


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

david,

do you mean don't even take the paper/image off for 15-30 seconds? I will try that though I have tried using spray adhesive at my suppliers recommendation but saw no difference and did a couple of dozen that way 

do you think it might be because of the solid black border around the edges? can black ink get hotter? or could the blank ink be flawed (though I have had absolutely no instance of this happening with other substrates including the 2x3 unisub metal).

I did try running the time as low as 30 seconds and then tried running the temp down to 380 and longer dwell time. Did not get the literal flaking off at those times and temps but still had spots mostly on corners of failure.

these are the numbers on the 4 cases:

sb5731cs pa#p0428e, pa# p041hd, pa# p0405a.

4th case didnt have this label on it.

Thank you!

Melinda


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

What is the Unisub part number?

Yes, wait a few seconds before removing.

Are you doing them with the transfer face
up or down? 

What press do you have?


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

I think the sb5731cs is the unisub number.

transfer face down

transpo 15x15 manual heat press from pro world

from bottom I use teflon sheet/blow out sheet/blank/image/cover blow out sheet. 400 degrees at 50 (though I have tried various temps down to 385 and longer dwell time).

this combo works perfectly for the 2x3 and 1x3 unisub aluminum and different sized frp.

thank you.


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

just checked the unisub site and the number is just 5731 not sb5731cs


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

There should be a date code stamped on the box
like month and year.

My best guess at this point is they need to be
replaced.

By the way, I do mine with the transfer face up, metal
face down. This makes it easy to register the metal
and no heat tape is needed.


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

There is only one I can see the date, others covered by a label. 9-26-2011.

thank you again for your time.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I would contact the folks you purchased them
from. On Monday I will run that lot number through
our records.


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

thank you.

I have contacted them and they will replace. I just need to find out if it is caused by a damaged lot or do I need to stop using this metal.

the image has a black border and the design is mostly black. Is it possible the black ink gets hotter or it is flawed? I use sawgrass ink. I'm going to do a run of a lighter colored image this weekend to see the flaw rate. 

thank you again for your time.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I don't think you need to change brands.
Just a batch issue. Could have been a dull blade.


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## DaveW (May 24, 2008)

I have done several hundred of those badges and have probably had less than 5 with actual material defects. We do a lot of full bleed artwork as well.

Defect rate in general is extremely low for anything I have ever done from Unisub. Other brands are higher, in my experience, plus the color sucks.

HTH,

DaveW


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Like DaveW, I have done many, many and had not had a single issue with the product...just some operator error..


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

thank you for your replies. I tried running some with a lighter color though still full bleed. took 12 to get 2 acceptable ones and at that I threw in the towel. bought 3 cases from conde and will see. I don't think it's my process. I have done hundreds of the 2x3 and 1x3 with no issues at all.

i sell one offs online and had a dark full bleed design ordered today. used condes and what a relief to have it come out perfect.

I like my current supplier but will have to buy these from someone else until i'm sure their supply of damaged ones is gone ;( this was totally frustrating. I was beginning to think I'd have to find someone on this board to finish my orders as i just could not get any usable!

thanks again.


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## RaptorRay (Oct 6, 2009)

I have some Unisub dog tags with the white coating flaking off straight out of the box. I will be talking to Kevin next week about the problem.

Ray


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Yes, let your distributor know so we can check
our inventory.


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## CreativeInk (Sep 17, 2011)

well i was a bit scared at the beginning of this post. I have to do 120 name badges for military officers and omg i was freaking out. I watched the video at conde because i was concerned that i couldn't use the jig to help speed production due to the quantity. But after that video i feel much better. Just wondering did you leave the black outline on the bleed area for the template? just wasn't sure how to make them line up straight without the jig. Thanks.  Oh, i also decided to throw in a lapel pin for each military branch to show them I can do that as well. Thanks for the insight. And just an FYI my local Conde office and account mgr is wonderful. Thanks Conde!


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## mel58 (Sep 30, 2011)

if you were addressing me,, yes mine had a fairly thick black border and I made that extend into the bleed area.

I bought some from conde and still had a little trouble with them but it was caused by the way I was peeling the coating. someone had recommended you put it up against the platen for a second to heat the plastic and then peel it but I found that was making that corners coating peel off so now I just use a piece of very sticky tape.

the other ones I bought were flawed also but none of the ones from conde were. now though I am having some problems with black on iphone cases and still haven't got that one figured out other than I have some ordered from conde to try their brand to see what happens.

I never use a jig I just tape each one to the paper and put six at a time in the heat press. I've been able to do 50 in quite a bit less than an hour that way. printing slowed me up more than anything. 

with a border I do eyeball each very carefully to be certain I am centering them because the border makes it obvious when you don't get it centered on the design.


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