# ORACAL not working for me anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?



## dAi (Jan 27, 2008)

Hey Guys, what's up?

I usually do t-shirts heat transfer with my roland gx-24 plotter and now I wanna also get into vinyl decal signs and post them on windows and glass

does anyone knows what do I need and don't need?

a friend of mine let me tried this blue vinyl oracal but is trash! im cutting at 70gram force with my plotter and some times like the small details cuts of the design it peels up with the vinyl

and 70 gram force is pretty heavy stuff if u ask around and my blade is 3months old


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## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

You do have to the detail with vinyl, because it does want to peel up. I use 3M 7725 on a clear backing...I think it is the easiest to work with.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

Oracal isn't normaly considered trash. Have you tried changing the amount of blade exposed for cutting and or slowing down the cut speed?


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

I use LG vuzion calendered to print on. Great stuff. They probably have good color vinyl too.


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

Sign vinyl is a different beast than t-shirt vinyl. Too heavy a cut will cause issues just as much as not enough pressure. 

You're not telling us what you're working with or how old it is (it has a shelf life). For all we know you could be trying to cut Oracal 5700 (reflective vinyl, a beast to cut and a great way to ruin a new blade). My best advice would be to talk with your friend, get some details from him. He's either using the stuff, which means he likes it and has learned how to use it, or he doesn't like it and has had the roll just sitting in his shop for years until someone asked to take it off his hands. 

If 70 grams is what you cut t-shirt vinyl at, it's probably way too much, forces vary depending on your speed settings/blade depth/blade age/etc. 

Weeding vinyl is also different for sign vinyls as opposed to t-shirt vinyls. Again, your friend would probably be the best to contact for help in that area as they can show you hands on some techniques to weed easier and quicker. For really really fine detail weeding, it may actually be best to premask and apply, then weed on your substrate. I've done that when I've had issues with small lettering. The vinyl's on a wax liner which makes it release easily, unlike t-shirt vinyl which is actually stuck to the mylar tape, but soon as you apply it to something solid, the smaller letters and such will have something to grab to.


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## dAi (Jan 27, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*



DTFuqua said:


> Oracal isn't normaly considered trash. Have you tried changing the amount of blade exposed for cutting and or slowing down the cut speed?


no i havent, what do you mean blade exposed?

like the thickness of a creditcard to stick? what is better to be less exposed or more exposable


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*



dAi said:


> no i havent, what do you mean blade exposed?
> 
> like the thickness of a creditcard to stick? what is better to be less exposed or more exposable


Depends on the thickness of the media you're cutting. Normally you want the blade to be exposed (I consider this the "blade depth) enough to cut the vinyl and slightly scratch the paper underneath (but not cut through it). 

Oftentimes you can find a depth that works for the majority of products, but if you leave it too exposed and your pressure is too high, you will either damage/shorten the life of the blade, or the cutter protection strip (the piece of plastic underneath your material). I believe the GX24 uses the same cutter holder as my SP300, it's a black cylinder with the blade in it, the bottom of it turns to adjust how much of the blade is exposed. I normally adjust mine held up to a piece of scrap until the depth looks right, then I'll try and cut a pattern by hand with it on one of my cutting mats. 

You really shouldn't need to adjust the blade depth often, but sometimes material jamming or other scenarios may throw it out of whack, also when I first got my equipment it wasn't exposed enough, so I had a lot of hard times weeding until I resolved it.


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## dAi (Jan 27, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

the quality of the vinyl for oracal is very cheap if u ask me ...


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## Screenanator (Feb 14, 2007)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

So....what other brands have you tried to be able to call Oracal junk?...Used Avery?...3M?...I've been in the sign business for 3 years now....Oracal isn't junk....by far....buy some new stuff not unkonwn stuff and give it a whirl.I was die hard 3M and have switched to Oracal not only for cut vinyl but all my digital printing and vehicle wraps.


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## bigwebman (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

Oracal vinyls are very good, IMO. I also like MacTac, some people say it is too stiff, but I have had pretty good luck with it. Avery is not that great, and I have some e-bay vinyl that is pretty low budget also, the transfer tape does not want to stick to it. Maybe try the different Oracal products, 341 is their economy calandered, then you have 631,641,651 canandered. Step up to the premium cast, 751,951. You see, they have many different films, and they are highy regarded with seasoned sign installers.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*



dAi said:


> the quality of the vinyl for oracal is very cheap if u ask me ...


 LOL..........You better learn sign vinyl before you go around saying Oracal is cheap vinyl. It's probably the most reputable sign vinyl in the industry.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

Love Oracal 651 and 751. Have also used Avery and 3M but no more.


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## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

dAi after attempting to help you in another post about vinyl I suggest you learn more about your cutter and settings. oracal puts out a quality product. every material is very different; i was cutting some fluorescent a couple days ago and had to turn my force to 160 to get a good cut. what brand cutter are you using?


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

I love Oracal, awesome stuff.. shinerite, that is garbage when doing tiny stuff, Oracal is German too I think...
I use Oracal Print media and that been very nice too, LG good, Oracal better in my opinion, plus distributor was being a dink


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## dAi (Jan 27, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*



adivito said:


> dAi after attempting to help you in another post about vinyl I suggest you learn more about your cutter and settings. oracal puts out a quality product. every material is very different; i was cutting some fluorescent a couple days ago and had to turn my force to 160 to get a good cut. what brand cutter are you using?


 
i always do a small test on different vinyls

i slow the speed down and adjust the force of the blade, trust me...it's very easy in the gx-24 to do a small test which i did and it weeds out but small details or lettering like the "TM" for trademark on a logo doesn't weed out

it's a pain i dont know which one i tried but ill try that 651 or 751


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

Weird, I have done cute thinner than human hair, no joke on 651, maybe blade you use?
Than again I use a flatbed cutter, maybe that makes a difference


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## laras4labs (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

I prefer oracal in any color but white, but another great vinyl is Feller's ShineRite. It weeds great, so if you hate Oracal, try that and see what you think.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

you've also got to realize that there is a limit to the size of the fine detail that can be cut.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

true but like I said, I cut hair line cuts that was part of a font, I kid you not about hair line and font was god, 1/2"


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## princessracer (May 31, 2009)

I've used shinerite and what I dont like about it is if the sticky side touches the unsticky side it will ruin it. 

Oracal is not junk, maybe your friend was cleaning out his shelf and gave you old vinyl. On my copam I use 50-60 force at the most for regular oracal. 

Also, your blade should barely be showing for normal stuff. When I do t-shirts I have to put my force up to 100+ 

Don't go calling a very reputable brand junk until you explore all possibilities. Don't be cheap, order yourself a roll of 651 and try it out. (and no, not off ebay either, find a sign place near you)


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: ORACAL IS GARBAGE anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*



mrbigjack50 said:


> true but like I said, I cut hair line cuts that was part of a font, I kid you not about hair line and font was god, 1/2"


i cut hairlines too. i think it depends on what it's attached to. i cut a design the other day and i noticed things trying to come up off the backing but it cut fine. but when weeding it i had a couple of little pieces with cuts inside it (circle within a circle) tha wanted to come up and not allow the inner piece to come out of it. i finally got it but when there's not much backing holding a piece on because of it's size you're playing hit and miss.


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## rfried (Dec 30, 2008)

also makes a difference in cutting blades - 45' or 60 ' angle


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## RBMods (Sep 3, 2011)

*Re: ORACLE not working for me anyone knows a good inexpensive vinyl?*

I tried everything when I got my master cutter. I stuck with the Oracle 651 and I have cut circles about 1/16 of a inch around. I use 65 grams of down force and cut at 24" per second using a 60% blade barely exposed, Half a credit card.
[media]http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/rbmods1/IMG_0081.jpg[/media]


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## Wheeler (Apr 15, 2007)

Anything under Oracal 651 is junk, I can't stand 641 it never wants to release off the liner. 651 and up is all good. 

That is where the vinyl breaks down from intermediate to economy vinyl.Get what you pay for..: )


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