# Epson 1430 vs. Virtuoso SG800



## newgirlhere (Oct 19, 2015)

Looking for feedback on these two printers- new to sublimation printing- so we are starting fresh. 

I use a MAC and will mostly be printing a 11x17 print. Thanks for any and all insight! New to sublimation printing, we are looking to expand our business and add our own custom prints to our product selection - there is potential that we will be printing approximately 20 to 50 sheets per week (with 7 images per sheet) - and I want a high quality print that will withstand athletic wear (lots of sweat!).

On the Epson, I was looking at the ArTainium Inks- as I heard the Sublijet Inks don't work with a MAC? 

Thanks in advance for all the replies!!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

newgirlhere said:


> Looking for feedback on these two printers- new to sublimation printing- so we are starting fresh.
> 
> I use a MAC and will mostly be printing a 11x17 print. Thanks for any and all insight! New to sublimation printing, we are looking to expand our business and add our own custom prints to our product selection - there is potential that we will be printing approximately 20 to 50 sheets per week (with 7 images per sheet) - and I want a high quality print that will withstand athletic wear (lots of sweat!).
> 
> ...


It's not the inks per se, it's the color management software from SG (Powerdriver) that may not support some printers on the MAC platform.

Having said that, Conde Systems offers ICC profile support for MAC using Sublijet inks. So they have a workaround for MAC and Sublijet.

You can also get ICC profiles for Epson sub inks from Cobra. But I can't speak to their MAC setup support as I don't have a MAC. I use them for Epson and Bill Gates (or whoever runs M$ now) .


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## newgirlhere (Oct 19, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> It's not the inks per se, it's the color management software from SG (Powerdriver) that may not support some printers on the MAC platform.
> 
> Having said that, Conde Systems offers ICC profile support for MAC using Sublijet inks. So they have a workaround for MAC and Sublijet.
> 
> You can also get ICC profiles for Epson sub inks from Cobra. But I can't speak to their MAC setup support as I don't have a MAC. I use them for Epson and Bill Gates (or whoever runs M$ now) .


Thanks for the reply @mgparrish!
When I contacted Conde, the sales rep was so quick to push the SG800- and downplay any Epson printer, with out much to back up her claims. I was honestly put off by the whole phone conversation... but I'll look into their ICC profile support.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

newgirlhere said:


> Thanks for the reply @mgparrish!
> When I contacted Conde, the sales rep was so quick to push the SG800- and downplay any Epson printer, with out much to back up her claims. I was honestly put off by the whole phone conversation... but I'll look into their ICC profile support.


SG ink is very expensive and while the original Ricoh's have non-SG sub inks being offered now, the new SG printers (from Ricoh) have custom carts and no one outside of SG I am aware is offering inks for that, or carts. 

SG by and large moved to the Ricoh platform, but there is still Epson inks from SG. For new users yes Conde pushes Ricoh for desktops.


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## jarabe1 (Nov 20, 2015)

We are in the same situation, trying to expand the business and test the sublimation waters. Which one is the bes route? epson 1430 or virtuoso sg800?


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## okprinter (Sep 6, 2014)

I had a similar experience when I called the major suppliers it seemed they all pushed the Sawgrass printers and could not give detailed specifics as to why they were so much better than an Epson with Cobra inks. They had the general sales pitch.... That seems to be deflated after reading the posts on the forum.... So I am heading towards a 7610... Still trying to decide between refillable cartridges and a cis


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## macman29681 (May 24, 2013)

I have a mac and an Artisan 1430. I did a lot of research before buying sub equipment back in 2013. Here is a post from June 2015 that I posted on the forum and I will update the current prices after.

_My friend there is no comparison with the ink at all. In fact the numbers that I am about to throw out are staggering. The fact is Sawgrass held the patent for sublimation ink until it ran out in Sept. 14 and they stuck it to everyone that bought ink from them for years. Here are the facts I just priced it out on Conde's website. I am going to round out the numbers for you just so you can see how much money you have paid in ink to Sawgrass. If you wanted to get a liter of CYM it would cost you $2,534 each. Conde sells CYM for 29ml cart for $73.50 each that comes out to $2.53/ml x 1000=$2,534. The black is cheaper at $105 for a 42ml cart for $2.50ml x 1000= $2,500. So lets assume you won the lottery and wanted to buy a liter of each ink it would cost you $10,102. On the Cobra web site you get get 4 32 oz bottles (almost one liter) for $712. Roughly 93% cheaper than Sawgrass inks. Don't be hung up on the Richoh printer must be better because it costs more. I did a lot of research before I bought a printer and I saw than there was no way that I was willing to pay 1 that much money for a printer and still had to buy a bypass tray and 2 pay that much money for their ink. Now I'm sure if Sawgrass sells their ink in liters you would be able to get it a little cheaper but no where near what Cobra sells there ink for. I have never had a shirt come back because it didn't look good. Paper the best paper I have used and I have tried most of them is the TexPrint HR XP for Epson machines._

Here are some current prices as of 11/19/2015.

If you buy the carts for the SG800 from Conde they sell them for CMY is $126 /68 ml. So that means that each ml of ink costs $1.85.

Cobra ink sells bottles of ink and the most expensive is CMY 2oz. for $18.00. Doing the math to convert 2oz of ink to ml is 59.14ml in their most expensive bottle. So each ml of ink from Cobra costs .30/ml.

The savings from Cobra ink is over 84%. 

I have had my machine for over 2 years and go months without printing fire it up run a cleaning and print a test color page and off I go. I forgot to mention that when I started with Cobra inks that I also got his CISS with those inks. I hope this helps at the time 2013 and now I can't see that I would have done anything else different.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

okprinter said:


> I had a similar experience when I called the major suppliers it seemed they all pushed the Sawgrass printers and could not give detailed specifics as to why they were so much better than an Epson with Cobra inks. They had the general sales pitch.... That seems to be deflated after reading the posts on the forum.... So I am heading towards a 7610... Still trying to decide between refillable cartridges and a cis


I just ordered the WF7110 with CIS. I struggled with the same question; carts or CIS so I hear ya... I had a bad previous incident with carts (but NOT Cobra's refillable carts) and have owned a Cobra CIS for pigment for the last 1.5 years -- so in the end, I went with the CIS...


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## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

I have a WF-7110 but with refillable cartridges, how do you use a CIS with this printer as it will not print with the lid raised?
I assume there must be some setting to offset this.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I didn't get it yet, but here's a picture from their website. Looks like it just sneaks under the cover...


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## Talon (May 14, 2015)

Bypassing the lid is easy. There's a little plastic tab on the lid that trips a physical sensor. You can use a qtip, piece of paper, pencil eraser or whatever will fit in the slot to bypass.


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## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

Talon said:


> Bypassing the lid is easy. There's a little plastic tab on the lid that trips a physical sensor. You can use a qtip, piece of paper, pencil eraser or whatever will fit in the slot to bypass.


Thanks for that, I never noticed it.


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## ARHYTHMATIK (Dec 11, 2013)

Ok here's my question- I've gone through 2 different Epson printers and both ended up with clogged heads after about 500 prints. No print head cleaning method worked-- and I tried everything. One Epson printer was using Cobra ink, one Epson printer was using InkXPro ink. Both printers were used daily. How do you get around the clogged heads using an Epson?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ARHYTHMATIK said:


> Ok here's my question- I've gone through 2 different Epson printers and both ended up with clogged heads after about 500 prints. No print head cleaning method worked-- and I tried everything. One Epson printer was using Cobra ink, one Epson printer was using InkXPro ink. Both printers were used daily. How do you get around the clogged heads using an Epson?


After a certain period of usage all desktop printers need some routine maintenance.

See this video. Don't do the fluid injection into the print head except only as a last result. If the other methods in the video don't work then try cleaner injection into the print heads.

A solution of 50/50 Distilled water and simple green can substitute for the cleaning fluid in the video except for the direct injection into the heads. In that case if you have to do that then use a regular head cleaner available from most inkjet ink suppliers.

How to maintain small format Epson printers

If your capping station is blocked then cleaning the heads makes the problem worse.


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## ARHYTHMATIK (Dec 11, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> After a certain period of usage all desktop printers need some routine maintenance.
> 
> See this video. Don't do the fluid injection into the print head except only as a last result. If the other methods in the video don't work then try cleaner injection into the print heads.
> 
> ...


Tried everything in that video and nothing works. I've tried injecting the clog buster from 5 different companies and none of them work. Any ideas on what else can be done about head clogs? Could it be something else causing the issue?


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## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

For years I went through all the different Epsons with Artanium ink with clog after clog.
I now have an Epson WF-7110 and using Sublinova ink which I find vastly superior to Artanium at less than 1/4 of the price.
Had this set up for months and as yet not had to even do a head clean.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ARHYTHMATIK said:


> Tried everything in that video and nothing works. I've tried injecting the clog buster from 5 different companies and none of them work. Any ideas on what else can be done about head clogs? Could it be something else causing the issue?


Air in CIS and refillable carts cam mimic clogs, technically the heads are not clogged but the end result is the same, missing nozzles and banding.

Check with your supplier for correct priming instructions.


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## ARHYTHMATIK (Dec 11, 2013)

jimc said:


> For years I went through all the different Epsons with Artanium ink with clog after clog.
> I now have an Epson WF-7110 and using Sublinova ink which I find vastly superior to Artanium at less than 1/4 of the price.
> Had this set up for months and as yet not had to even do a head clean.


Ok thanks for the info. I'll have to give Sublinova a try. Any vendor you recommend buying from? I've tried Cobra ink- that ended up in a clog fairly quick. I've also tried InkXPro- that ended up getting a clog as well (but lasted longer than Cobra before a clog occurred).


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## jimc (Jan 31, 2007)

ARHYTHMATIK said:


> Ok thanks for the info. I'll have to give Sublinova a try. Any vendor you recommend buying from? I've tried Cobra ink- that ended up in a clog fairly quick. I've also tried InkXPro- that ended up getting a clog as well (but lasted longer than Cobra before a clog occurred).


 If you're in the US I don't know of suppliers as I'm in UK.


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## ARHYTHMATIK (Dec 11, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> Air in CIS and refillable carts cam mimic clogs, technically the heads are not clogged but the end result is the same, missing nozzles and banding.
> 
> Check with your supplier for correct priming instructions.


I tried priming the cartridge, that actually worked and solved the problem for about 20 prints, now it's back to doing the same thing. Getting zero ink from certain colors, and banding from others. Any other ideas on what I can try?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ARHYTHMATIK said:


> I tried priming the cartridge, that actually worked and solved the problem for about 20 prints, now it's back to doing the same thing. Getting zero ink from certain colors, and banding from others. Any other ideas on what I can try?


When you mention "solved the problem", do you mean you had good nozzles from the nozzle check or you were able to print your transfer OK?

Your nozzle check shows all carts, designs may or may not use all the carts, so use your nozzle check as the nozzle health indication.

If you got a good nozzle check and you were able to print 20 copies then your printer isn't clogged likely, but doubt your prime is still sufficient. It could still have air in the system ... just happens it took 20 prints to get to another bubble or air pocket in the line.

Also, keeping a set of known good OEM carts can help troubleshooting and isolating the problem. If the OEM carts work then your print head is fine, the problem would be in the CIS or refillable cart, and then it would likely be a vacuum issue (air in the system).

If you have refillable carts then there should only be one plug installed in the cart, the one plug where the ink goes in, The other plug is for storage only and must be removed when installing into a printer, check for that.


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## ARHYTHMATIK (Dec 11, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> When you mention "solved the problem", do you mean you had good nozzles from the nozzle check or you were able to print your transfer OK?
> 
> Your nozzle check shows all carts, designs may or may not use all the carts, so use your nozzle check as the nozzle health indication.
> 
> ...


I had good nozzle checks and good transfer prints. I'm using a CIS and I've tried priming again, but I'm still not getting any color out of several nozzles, even after priming.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ARHYTHMATIK said:


> I had good nozzle checks and good transfer prints. I'm using a CIS and I've tried priming again, but I'm still not getting any color out of several nozzles, even after priming.


Then you need to substitute known good carts in the system for troubleshooting. Need to determine if the issue is the print heads or the CIS. You must isolate the problem in order to know which way to go.

If your printer is clean underneath and on the capping station, then you either have to run head cleans or prime, or determine you have something defective to the point of not being recoverable thru normal maintenance.


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