# Why do some printers paint stretch while others crack?



## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

Just wondering is it the type of paint they use? Or they are not putting some sort of adhesive on the back?

I received samples of already printed shirts. One company's shirt, when I stretch it...the paint cracks.

The other company, their paint did not crack...it just stretches with the shirt. This company also - printed one of my friends shirt about 4 years ago... and the paint still holds strong.

This sucks as the other company (where the paint cracked when stretched) does not charge for screens, but of course their shirts were 25 cents more per shirt.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

It's ink, not paint. It depends on the ink they were using. 
Plastisols should always stretch, unless they were not cured properly. Waterbased inks do not fuse together when cured, so when you stretch the shirt, it looks as if its cracked, but you may just be pulling the fabric apart. Its possible they use a DTG (direct to garment) printer, which would have the same effect of appearing cracked when the shirt fibers are stretched.


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## denck (Apr 7, 2009)

"Ink"-not paint will stretch with the fabric
However when printing on Lycra-Poly-or any other stetch fabric, a stretch additive is added.
Ink bonds itself to the fabric when screen printed
however when heat pressed the ink is bonded to the glue then the glue bonds itself to the fabric
This will cause the ink to break away from the glue when stretched
When undercured the ink will crack or fall off the material
Hope this helps


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

Sorry. I meant ink.

Both the shirts art on 100% Cotton American Apparel colored. I believe the are both screen printed as this is what the companies specialize in. These shirts aren't DTG since the prints feel medium-thick instead of having a soft hand to it. If you ever been to New York, & seen those "I Love New York" shirts... if you stretch the fabric, they do crack. That's how it is with the shirt samples. After stretching them and looking at it, you can see the "crack's" run vertically. (along the lines of the threads) 

If it is ok, I do not mind listing the company names just in case those who do use these to print their shirts can put in some input... Both companies have been reputable and have many good reviews though...

I can also post pics of it, so you can see what I am talking about.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

Pics would help, and I don't see anything wrong with posting the companies for reference. 

Are you sure one of them wasn't discharge with colored pigment? That will cause it to look cracked when the fabric is stretched?


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

Here is the company where the ink cracks...
1) When Stretched - [media]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/AreYouAMac/IMG_0048.jpg[/media]
The left side I did not stretch... the right side I did...you can see the vertical cracks that I am talking about along the paint

2) After the stretch - 
[media]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/AreYouAMac/IMG_0049.jpg[/media]

You can notice a before (left) and after (right) the stretch... 

And here is the other company's where the ink does not crack - This is during the stretch

[media]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/AreYouAMac/IMG_0054.jpg[/media]


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

Wow, Ive never seen anything like that happen before.. I would almost say over-cure of the ink, but Im not even sure that would cause that. Its also possible that the first layer of ink was flashed too long and fully cured, then the second layer on the top didn't fully adhere to the bottom. 
Its hard to tell, is the entire layer of ink cracked down to the fabric?
How hard did you stretch the shirt?


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

I just scrunched up some cloth in both of my hands like a fist, and pulled normally..not hard though but not soft. Kind of tension like. 

But I stretched the other the same. 

I hope this is just a curing-error...but I don't want to take the risk... I guess the other company will do.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Every new printer goes to stores and stretches shirts on the racks and then scoffs when they crack because they aren't cured. 

Plastisol is cured when all the liquid plasticizer is absorbed by the PVC resin, usually forming a film. Remember, liquid NO evaporation.

If you pull that film, it should stretch -- some, and then it will break when it reaches it's elastic limit, just like a rubber band. You can add special resin from your ink manufacturer that will increase the elasticity. 

If you are the customer and your pull test cracks, use a hand iron or heat seal press to heat up half the image and prove to yourself and the printer that the ink CAN be cured and stretched.

Like stencil exposure, plastisol ink can't be *"over cured".* You can waste your time and heat energy - heating the ink & shirt, once all the plasticizer has been absorbed by the PVC resin. 3 minutes or 30 minutes, or 3 days at 320 degrees F. - the print will be the same.

Heating the shirt above 320 degrees F. doesn't help either, just as 3cm or 3 meters _out of bounds_, is out of bounds in tennis.

If you over *HEAT* above 451 degrees F., the shirt starts on fire.


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

another vote for not cured to the right temp. i had a customer tell me his last printed shirts lost half of there ink when he washed them. i told him the last printer probably did not cure them to the right temp. i had him bring me a sample, i did the stretch test to see if it was cured, it started cracking as soon as i stretched it. i ran it through my conveyor dryer, and the problem was fixed. to bad he found me after he washed most of his shirts. good for me because he placed an order for all new shirts. i did manage to fix one for him.


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

So... it is safe to say that the shirts are "premature" of being cured?

This is great news than I guess?!?! I will definitely try to heat iron them and see if this helps... 

BUT since I did the stretching & the cracking occurred... will the ink fuze back together and still have the same elasticity as if it were cured properly?

Thank you for your posts. This is good news if the simple trick of hot ironing it will work...if hot irons do get +451 degrees...which I seem to doubt


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

Richard Greaves, Mind telling me if you are a printer or not? I will be in New York this summer and would love to check out your work if you are.

And amp267, may you also share the same information of where you are located? and if possible, a website?

Looking for printers who knows their stuff would certainly help.


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

the one i re-did for my customer fuzed for the most part, but the last printer printed it so thick, that the part i stretched beyond what i should have did not fuze completely. but for the most part the whole image seems to be cured ok. i used a dryer not an iron, or heat press, not sure what results you will get, but i know some people have had success that way


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

my website is being rebuilt as we speak, i hope. anyway im located in southern cali. pm me with any questions i will gladly try to help you, if i cant, i will try to lead you in the direction of someone who can. you will find a wealth of knowledge on here, finding this site has enabled me to advance my skills beyond what i ever imagined. im just glad i can give something back, hopefully one day you will to.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Greaves*



AreYouAMac said:


> Richard Greaves, Mind telling me if you are a printer or not? I will be in New York this summer and would love to check out your work if you are.


I welcome any and all screen printing questions, but I prefer to answer questions in public to leverage the number of people that can see the answers. My contact info is in my profile.

I'm in Detroit right now, recovering from a stroke I had in January, but my brain works much better than my left hand.

I have been screen printing since 1979. I am the Technical Product Manager for Ulano in Brooklyn and still consider myself a screen printer. If you would like to visit Ulano (no printing, only screen making), or talk during a Printwear or ISShow, call to arrange a meet.

The next Printwear show is in Fort Worth, TX April 29, 2009 where I teach all the screen printing seminars and spend all my free time answering questions.


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

Sup All,

Here's an update. I emailed the company and they told me that they flashed it instead of running it through since this was just a sample for me. So it wasn't cured all the way. He thought that I was checking out their work on designs instead of the actual stretch & wash test.

I guess it would have taken an extra day or couple hours if it were to be cured properly?

Thanks for the info though. I emailed them saying that people who I spoke to said most definitely that it was not cured properly.


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks Richard,

I hope your recovery is getting better every day. It's just motivational how you still teach screen printing after what happened. You must have that passion that others have when they truly love what they do. The "hunger" for more. And that hunger is to help others.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

AreYouAMac said:


> I guess it would have taken an extra day or couple hours if it were to be cured properly?


It would have taken an extra three minutes if the dryer was on... so it depends whether or not they were printing orders.

I think sending out a half-finished sample is a little unprofessional, but maybe that's just me.


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## denck (Apr 7, 2009)

Thats funny if I sent out a sample of my workI would want it just the way I would print it on a run?
Kinda like ordering a steak off of a menu but getting it raw and the cooks responce was you want me to cook it too?


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## AreYouAMac (Jul 9, 2008)

I looked up the clothing line that designed that shirt and it was from LAST SEASON... so I am assuming that they just re-printed the shirt again for me. 

The company has excellent reviews on here and also emptees.com - the company is m*mmoth printshop (* = "a"). I didn't want to list the company name as I am still thinking about using them or someone and. And I know that they wouldn't want this small thing to be publicized. Johnny Cupcakes wrote about them on the interview he had on here, that is how I found them. Their prices are pretty much competitive I can tell you that much. Others quoted me +$10.00 for a 4/3 American Apparel. This quote was about 1/3 less than that. Well, if Johnny Cupcakes did use them before.... I definitely hope his shirt designs did not crack.

The other company was J*k Prints (* = "a"). There prices are also in the same range as m*mmoth printshop. I like this company also. I talked to them via phone and they were pretty friendly.

Any thoughts on m*mmoth?


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