# Someone else printed my tshirt saying I mentioned on a radio talk show before I actually got to print it..it just feels gross, what can I do?



## coldrock (Nov 19, 2008)

Hello folks,
listen, I guess technically speaking, I could find an answer somewhere else, but I would really appreciate youse guys' feedback on this. 
So here in Texas, our capitol Austin, is a really cool place, which has experienced a boom in the last 10 years or so, it's a really great place. Anyway, there was a t shirt/bumper sticker that someone developed which said "Keep Austin Weird". One day I made the mistake of mentioning on a local talk radio show that I was going to print up some stuff which said "Keep El Paso Backward"; we have all been frustrated with our hometowns at some point, huh? Anyway, come to find out that some local xxxxxxx has been selling that through CafePress. I have a million other ideas, but it just feels crummy that this guy has done this. Short of beating the living life out of this crumb bum, any thoughts?...


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## dan2003 (Aug 10, 2009)

Not much you can do about it.


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## MardiGrasTexan (Oct 11, 2008)

coldrock said:


> One day I made the mistake


This is your answer...sorry.


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## coldrock (Nov 19, 2008)

OK, so, I figured as much, but where is the line drawn? Don't we have any protection? As entreprenuers, I can't imagine you guys standing around shrugging your shoulders while people rip you off. I know there is some protections we have as artists which don't neccesitate formal trademarks...


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## MardiGrasTexan (Oct 11, 2008)

You should have copyrighted (not trademarked...totally different) the saying or you should have actually started printing the items as you said you were going to do. The copyrighting would have given you full legal rights. The actual printing of the saying (without being copyrighted) would have given you first rights in the court of law. However, you would've still had to prove you printed the items prior to the other person (and you still may lose in court.) In the future, get those ideas copyrighted if you feel you truly believe you have a winner on your hands.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Do you live in El Paso? You are probably more apt to sell that tee around town.


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## MardiGrasTexan (Oct 11, 2008)

By the way, you may still be able to copyright the saying and take him to court. Not sure how he'd want to fight you as you'd have the copyright. He may figure he can't win and just quit printing the items. He may have already applied for the copyright though. Either way, it could get messy. Keep it mind it takes a while to get a copyright, so being the first to file the application is very important.


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## numbercruncher (Feb 20, 2009)

*Perhaps he had the idea first...*

My dad once told me that of all the "new" ideas one might have it is likely it has been thought of before-is it possible the other person had the idea first ? Just some food for thought...


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## acmeprinting (Jun 4, 2007)

Sorry Randy. That bites. I looked at Cafe Press and seen the design. Not too much to it. I think you should do one anyway. Are you with Cafe Press?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Here are a couple I have.

El Paso...the arm pit of TEXAS
El Paso...on a clear day you can see MEXICO
KEEP EL PASO...PLEASE!!!!!!!
EL PASO NOT PESO
EL PASO...DISTRICT 11


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## greyhorsewoman (Jul 19, 2007)

Can you really copyright a saying? We have a 'SIT HAPPENS' shirt we sell that our artist did her own interpretation on .. now other vendors also sell a 'SIT HAPPENS' t-shirt ... only in their OWN interpretation. We have several fun shirts like that. If you printed a shirt with big block letters on that said 'LIFE IS GOOD' would that infringe on the 'Life is good' series of shirts?

Anyway, IMHO, the fact that the guy has it on cafepress just means it's a good idea, not that you can't do your own.


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## MardiGrasTexan (Oct 11, 2008)

OK, I need to correct what I said. Here's what the copyright office says regarding this:

*How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?*
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark. 


So unless trademarked, the original poster can have at it.


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## coldrock (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey guys,
thanks for the input! Hey GreyHorse, I see your point, to an extent, but I bet you a dollar to a doughnut that Life is Good would definitely get you some yucky letters! Just MHO...part of it, I think, is standing up for one's self....I remember as a kid, in elementary, some kid showed up to school with a shirt w/ a sombrero'd character, with the caption, "Oh Chit!" LOL...
and thanks, I guess I could do my own!...

Motoskin...I LOVE THOSE...promise I won't touch them!...
Acme, i started with cafepress, but got a bad feeling...

Numbercruncher, I am afraid there is no doubt to the circumstances...

What about contacting CafePress? Just to tell them what's going on? 

You know, I really want to make this guy pay in some way...he is a rich snob with a big mouth, and to steal from me, some poor schlub trying to scratch out a living, as I said, it just sucks all the way 'round. But Seriously, i do have what I believe to be real bonafide winners in my stable, like my El Paso Cow Punq label, and I just participated in a Pecha Kucha night here, where I showed some of my stuff; a room full of starving artists, you know, it worries me...


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## MardiGrasTexan (Oct 11, 2008)

coldrock said:


> Hey GreyHorse, I see your point, to an extent, but I bet you a dollar to a doughnut that Life is Good would definitely get you some yucky letters!


Life is Good is big time trademarked by Life is Good, Inc. Just a quick search of Cafepress shows that they won't print it, so you can book it, Life is Good is all over the use of that trademarked saying.


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## coldrock (Nov 19, 2008)

I was just perusing Cafe Press, and my shop is still up after all this time; guess I didn't close it right. Wow, all this time and didn't sell a damn thing. Not that I marketed it at all...


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## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

coldrock said:


> One day I made the mistake of mentioning on a local talk radio show


Next time call the radio show and tell them that you have shirts already printed with... I don't know how many shirts your talking about but in the long run the creative person will pursue. If we have to result to copying someone else's ideas we will always be at least one step behind. I do this for one, because I love it and live it, Second, to make money at it. I can make money multiple ways, but I really like what I do here. If you really like this profession keep on keeping on. Engrave this in your memory banks, let it go and work on the next idea.


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## coldrock (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey Mike,
thanks for your time and the response. I will take it to heart...


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## HM-1 Addict (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm not expert at all and I'm just shooting in the dark but... Can you call the radio station and see if they have a recording of that show (it may not help depending on if you said 'we're going to be printing...'). Also, couldn't you design that slogan as a fixed logo so that you can copyright or trademark it as a logo and then say hey this guy is infringing on my logo. I don't know at all but it may cost more to talk to a lawyer than you would make off the deal. Unless of course you could prove how much he's made off of your ****.

Again, this is all theoretical guessing that I am doing here and I really don't have the first clue on how this works. It just seems like there are ways to do it somehow.

That would suck to say screw it and we'll both just make the design and then suddenly HE'S suing YOU.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

coldrock said:


> One day I made the mistake of mentioning on a* local talk radio show* that I was going to print up some stuff which said "Keep El Paso Backward"


You MAY be in luck!!  Go to the U.S. Copyright Office site. Read "what does copyright protect?"

Here is a quote:



copyright.gov site said:


> *When is my work protected?*
> Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and *fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. *



SINCE you said it on a local radio talk show, they may have a fixed tangible form of you saying your tee shirt message ON TAPE (tangible form that is perceptible with the aid of a machine (to play it back.))

Find out if the talk show has a copy of the interview for you available on tape, or if at least they have an archive of it.

Once you look into this, then consider going to a copyright lawyer. If you REALLY want to stop the other person, you may be able to use this as a basis for a cease and desist letter, which alot of times, is all it takes. Not always, but you could try it as the first, cheapest course of action. 

Best of luck with it, I think you may have a lead to follow up here. 




> Short of beating the living life out of this crumb bum, any thoughts?...


Don't do this... the laws against this have stiffer penalities than the ones for breaking copyright law.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Dang, didn't see HM-1's post. Agreed with HM-1 (obviously). I admit, read about 7 posts only and posted my own reply. Still, I see there being a possibility for following up via the talk show archives. 

Obviously, anything and everything from the radio talk shows, etc, isn't fair game, it's in a fixed tangible form. Use that.


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## HM-1 Addict (Aug 21, 2009)

What about a fake cease and desist letter on a nice letterhead?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Do you mean on his own letterhead? He could always just try to ask the other person to stop printing the slogan. People here have posted that they have personally called a competitor that is ripping them off and tried to work it out with them via just them, no lawyers. 

It all depends on the approach the OP wants to take. Sometimes the shock of seeing the first letter come from a law office is enough to make someone sit up and take notice of how serious the other person is, and unless they have deep pockets, they aren't going to go get a lawyer to "answer back".

Again, all depends on how committed the OP is to the saying.


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## HM-1 Addict (Aug 21, 2009)

Yeah, that too. What I originally meant was a letterhead that looked like a law office at first glance, but don't forge anything that is from a real law office.

This is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer and I am in no position to give legal advice.


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## Mister T (Sep 2, 2009)

Yeah...if you have a million great ideas let me know...if you will not use a (your) good ideas. know that another person will, esp if it is a good one. Move on (Two) the next one...and fast!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

HM-1 Addict said:


> This is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer and I am in no position to give legal advice.


Yeahhhh, none of us are, well, actually a few members are, and in various areas of law, but most of us aren't. 

That's pretty much why we try to look at the copyright.gov site a little, see if there's anything obvious that might help, then always, always refer to a copyright lawyer. 

On this note, it might be a good time for the standard:

- Since this is a legal question, it's best that we steer clear of it. There are plenty of topics that cover copyright and trademark that you can find by using the search box at the top of the forum.

- Talk to a lawyer if you feel you need help beyond what you can read at the copyright.gov site. They are the professionals that can adequately give you the proper help you seek. 

For further reading, check out:

U.S. Copyright Office

Trademarks

copyright related topics at T-Shirt Forums

trademark related topics at T-Shirt Forums


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## Cam Lynch (Aug 13, 2009)

greyhorsewoman said:


> Can you really copyright a saying? We have a 'SIT HAPPENS' shirt we sell that our artist did her own interpretation on .. now other vendors also sell a 'SIT HAPPENS' t-shirt ... only in their OWN interpretation. We have several fun shirts like that. If you printed a shirt with big block letters on that said 'LIFE IS GOOD' would that infringe on the 'Life is good' series of shirts?
> 
> Anyway, IMHO, the fact that the guy has it on cafepress just means it's a good idea, not that you can't do your own.


I tend to agree with your point of view in most cases. On the other hand...a phrase such as "We bring good things to life", is clearly a slogan used by General Electric.

I remember my brother using the "Life Is Good" phrase 20 years ago, before anyone had a copyright on it. It's likely he wasn't the first to use it.

Another example I coined the phrase beer-thirty a long time ago, while setting around with my buddies. Guess what, today in Walmart, I saw a t-shirt that said beer:30. I may or may not have been the first or last person to come up with that slogan on an original basis.

In both cases, the owners of the copyrights don't necessarily have that strong of a case for protection of their use of the phrase. I would guess that in reality they have protection for their exact use of the phrase, in the context of their art.

Your point about doing your own, in a different style makes a lot of sense, as otherwise at some point business in our society would grind to a halt.

The nature of t-shirts is such that the profits on some wouldn't cover the cost of formal copyright protection.

Sure I'm going to print a few t-shirts in my life, they will have the little (c) down at the bottom. I might just do my own beer thirty shirt. On the other hand, if I see an exact copy of one of my shirts, I might just sue. I can come up with millions of ideas, likely someone else has had the same idea in the past. Chances are mine will be different.


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## Cam Lynch (Aug 13, 2009)

greyhorsewoman said:


> Can you really copyright a saying? We have a 'SIT HAPPENS' shirt we sell that our artist did her own interpretation on .. now other vendors also sell a 'SIT HAPPENS' t-shirt ... only in their OWN interpretation. We have several fun shirts like that. If you printed a shirt with big block letters on that said 'LIFE IS GOOD' would that infringe on the 'Life is good' series of shirts?
> 
> Anyway, IMHO, the fact that the guy has it on cafepress just means it's a good idea, not that you can't do your own.


I agree. WOW! I had a lenghty reply to this and my computer started doing strange things when I started to post it.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Cam Lynch said:


> On the other hand...a phrase such as "We bring good things to life", is clearly a slogan used by General Electric.



That's a trademark, totally different thing. 

While there is a more to it (see www.copyright.gov and www.trademark.gov - then a lawyer) the rest largely comes down to lawyers and money. May the deepest pocket win. 

Please see the following:

The usual recommendations apply:

- Talk to lawyer if you want to do something that you think might be illegal or have a legal question. They will be the ones that can help you and even then, you could still get sued. But at least then, if you get sued and they said it was probably "ok", then at least you have someone that can go to court for you.

- Any "ways around it" advice given in a forum could get you sued. Even if 1000 people tell you it's OK, you could still get sued and have to come up with a lawyer and defend your right to do it.

- Why do you see other people doing it? Here's a good answer that was posted here before:

Original quote by Solmu:

"The usual story:


Some do whatever they want and wait for the cease and desist letter (and hope the company doesn't skip over it)
Some can afford lawyers to defend on the basis of parody, etc.
Some are in the process of getting sued and losing
Some are in the process of getting sued and winning
Some are just lucky and not getting caught
Some are just lucky and not getting caught... yet
Some will plan to settle out of court
Some are ignorant of the law and don't realise the world of hurt that is coming
Some are carefully staying on the right side of the legal divide
Some are carefully staying on the right side of the legal divide, but will be sued anyway, and unable to afford an adequate legal defense even though what they were doing was theoretically legal.
In other words, some are getting away with it, some aren't."


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