# What is the reason White Sublimation Ink does not exist?



## estrada

Hello. I am new to the world of sublimation. It is my understanding that you can only sublimate on white or light-colored t-shirts. Is this because there is no white sublimation ink? or is it because colors won't show on dark t-shirts?

If it is because there is no white sublimation ink, then I do not understand why nobody has created such an ink. I have seen Automatic Transfer, Inc. claiming to have created a "White Sublimation Laser Toner" back in January 2007. White Sublimation Laser Toner!
But if this was true, that would have changed the entire sublimation industry right?

If it is because colors won't show on dark t-shirts, then why does screen printing inks and direct to garment inks work just fine on black t-shirts?

Thank you,
Luis


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## degaje

The process of sublimation actually re-dyes the polyester fibers of the shirt, a black shirt is already dyed as dark as it can be, you cannot discharge the color from a polyester shirt and replace it with another color. You can only sublimate light colors darker.


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## PositiveDave

I can supply white sublimation ink - it leaves your fabric exactly the same colour as it started (and smells like water).
I suppose you could have a bleach-type chemical that sublimates but it probably wouldn't be safe.


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## estrada

degaje said:


> The process of sublimation actually re-dyes the polyester fibers of the shirt, a black shirt is already dyed as dark as it can be, you cannot discharge the color from a polyester shirt and replace it with another color. You can only sublimate light colors darker.


degaje thanks a lot for your quick response, now it all makes sense.


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## estrada

PositiveDave said:


> I can supply white sublimation ink - it leaves your fabric exactly the same colour as it started (and smells like water).
> I suppose you could have a bleach-type chemical that sublimates but it probably wouldn't be safe.


PositiveDave, could you supply me with more information about this white ink please? Thank you.


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## polomac

The white laser toner is a two step process. It is not like sublimation ink more of a laser toner i could be wrong. I know of some companies that are working on developing a white ink toner but like all new products it will take years befrore it reaches a passing grade. White ink is not opaque like screen printing.


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## PositiveDave

estrada said:


> PositiveDave, could you supply me with more information about this white ink please? Thank you.


That was a bit of a wind-up, see degaje's answer.


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## estrada

PositiveDave said:


> That was a bit of a wind-up, see degaje's answer.


Yeah i know jaja .


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## estrada

polomac thanks for the response. I guess this "white toner" sounds too good to be true. By the way, can you sublimate using laser printers or does this work only on inkjets?


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## polomac

For sublimation ink i would use sagrass. If i remember sawgrass now supplies Roland with the inks that are used inthe Roland sublimation printers. Stay with inkjet for sublimation. With laser printers you can do heat transfers on dark and white 100% cotton shirts. If you own a laser printer see neenah image clip i used it and do like it. The image clip inkjet is also good.


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## CUSTOM UK

There are two sublimation products that allow you to replicate white ink. They are both transfer mediums, whereby you print with sublimation ink onto the transfer medium, then apply the adhesive backed transfer medium to the garment with a heat press. One medium is a heavy vinyl effect and the other is a flock textured medium. They allow you to use cotton garments, but offer no real advantage over the better quality inkjet transfers.

As sublimation ink is essentially a dye, it would be physically impossible to dye a dark garment a lighter colour, hence no white sublimation ink. White ink used on cotton garments rests on the surface and unlike sublimation inks, it can be prone to cracking and flaking. Advances in white dtg inks will eventually have a significant impact on sublimation garment sales, due to their greater versatility.


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## oneeyedjack

Check out DSSI forum at dyesub. org which is mainly a sublimation forum.Yes laser sublimation is an option to look into.We have been using it for past 7 months and have not had one printing issue with it.Dont need to worry about clogs and head cleanings even if you dont print for a month.We got 750 pages printed before we had to replace yellow and magenta.Still had 72% of black and 38% of yellow left.System we have uses the OKI3200.You can even use regular everyday laser paper to print on if you want.So check out your options.


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## estrada

Thanks everyone for the information. I has been of great help for me.


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## big frank sports

One reason you can only do whites or lights is the color merging of each other. Remember back in elementary school that if you take 2 crayons and make a different color with them (Red and yellow to make orange). Dye subing dark colors would be the same. A red shirt dye subbed white will just get you a lighter color red. 

Make sense?


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## IowaArtist

*How to Replace the White in Dye-Sublimation Images Using White T-shirt's Color*

Hi,

_I'm new to Dye-Sublimation T-shirts, but am very excited by the the level of detail they offer._

Most of my images have a great deal of *white *and *subtle-whites* in them: curious how one goes about using the shirt's white color to 'fill in' for these areas -- *is it as simple as removing the 'absolute white' in Photoshop, but leaving anything that is a blend of white and other black(or)color?*

MANY thanks for answering what must be the most basic of all dye-sublimation questions! _*(I'm worried my images won't translate, simply because they have very light tones in addition to dark and medium tones.)*_


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## pisquee

polomac said:


> For sublimation ink i would use sagrass. If i remember sawgrass now supplies Roland with the inks that are used inthe Roland sublimation printers. Stay with inkjet for sublimation. With laser printers you can do heat transfers on dark and white 100% cotton shirts. If you own a laser printer see neenah image clip i used it and do like it. The image clip inkjet is also good.


Roland have their own sublimation ink, branded as "Heat Wave" with no mention of Sawgrass involvement that I can find.
What I did find was that Sawgrass signed up to be an official distributor of Roland printers - essentially so they can sell the Roland printers themselves, but this is entirely separate from Roland's own ink.


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## nerdhaven

There is white sublimation ink available for laser printers,...... BUT it is actually useless for sublimating T-Shirts.

I'm actually considering going with the white sublimation ink, and here is the reason:

I'm considering converting ALL my toner cartridges (CMYK) to sublimation ink, and then purchasing a 5th toner/drum for white. The reason being, when I make white shirts, I can pop out crisp laser pictures to sublimate on my shirts. I can hear you saying "Big Whoopie Doo!", but here's the thing, when I want to create a dark shirt, I can use an Image Clip for dark transfer paper, print the laser transfer with a coat of white sublimation toner, and then apply it to the shirt with no background (Self weeding.) Also, since its sublimation ink/dye, it won't crack and has better durability than OEM toner.

-Mr. Wiz


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## skdave

nerdhaven said:


> There is white sublimation ink available for laser printers,...... BUT it is actually useless for sublimating T-Shirts.
> 
> I'm actually considering going with the white sublimation ink, and here is the reason:
> 
> I'm considering converting ALL my toner cartridges (CMYK) to sublimation ink, and then purchasing a 5th toner/drum for white. The reason being, when I make white shirts, I can pop out crisp laser pictures to sublimate on my shirts. I can hear you saying "Big Whoopie Doo!", but here's the thing, when I want to create a dark shirt, I can use an Image Clip for dark transfer paper, print the laser transfer with a coat of white sublimation toner, and then apply it to the shirt with no background (Self weeding.) Also, since its sublimation ink/dye, it won't crack and has better durability than OEM toner.
> 
> -Mr. Wiz


 Can't to see this. PM me first


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## mgparrish

nerdhaven said:


> There is white sublimation ink available for laser printers,...... BUT it is actually useless for sublimating T-Shirts.
> 
> I'm actually considering going with the white sublimation ink, and here is the reason:
> 
> I'm considering converting ALL my toner cartridges (CMYK) to sublimation ink, and then purchasing a 5th toner/drum for white. The reason being, when I make white shirts, I can pop out crisp laser pictures to sublimate on my shirts. I can hear you saying "Big Whoopie Doo!", but here's the thing, when I want to create a dark shirt, I can use an Image Clip for dark transfer paper, print the laser transfer with a coat of white sublimation toner, and then apply it to the shirt with no background (Self weeding.) Also, since its sublimation ink/dye, it won't crack and has better durability than OEM toner.
> 
> -Mr. Wiz


White toner from either OKI or ATI Transfer _is not_ sublimation toner. I have both sublimation toner and white toner.

White toner can be sublimated onto though.


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## nerdhaven

mgparrish said:


> White toner from either OKI or ATI Transfer _is not_ sublimation toner. I have both sublimation toner and white toner.
> 
> White toner can be sublimated onto though.


Thank you for the clarification.
(BTW, that's still an awesome solution)


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## IowaArtist

Sorry, I understand the blending issue of printing colors on a colored T-shirt. My question is this:

if I have an image with a great deal of white in it, and I want to print that on a white T-shirt, will that image print perfectly on the white T-shirt -- OR do I need to first remove the whites before submitting them to a dye-sublimation printing company?

How does this image with (with whites and near-whites) print on a white T-shirt (uploading an image with a great deal of white already in it)?

Thanks for your time and answer,

Andrew


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## mgparrish

IowaArtist said:


> Sorry, I understand the blending issue of printing colors on a colored T-shirt. My question is this:
> 
> if I have an image with a great deal of white in it, and I want to print that on a white T-shirt, will that image print perfectly on the white T-shirt -- OR do I need to first remove the whites before submitting them to a dye-sublimation printing company?
> 
> How does this image with (with whites and near-whites) print on a white T-shirt (uploading an image with a great deal of white already in it)?
> 
> Thanks for your time and answer,
> 
> Andrew


Your white is just formed by the absence of any color in your design, just like printing on white paper. The white is the white on the shirt itself.


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## ZO6 KLR

This is just a guess but I believe that all white paints are pigment based, relying on the titanium product that makes white "white". The white pigment acts as an opaque thereby covering anything it prints on. All of the dye sub inks are dye based (transparent).


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## mgparrish

ZO6 KLR said:


> This is just a guess but I believe that all white paints are pigment based, relying on the titanium product that makes white "white". The white pigment acts as an opaque thereby covering anything it prints on. All of the dye sub inks are dye based (transparent).


That sounds right to me, titanium dioxide would be the titanium product. I think the only other way to get "white" on a dark garment is thru discharge printing.


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## mskunzig

Hey all,

Just wanted to chime in with a bit of info I just recently learned about "white ink".

No Sub / Dye, but there is now white toner for laser and it is now ONE STEP process.

Check out the OKI 711WT printer, they are new and expensive $3,395 or so and the white cart is $400. (Won't be using that for a while... should drop as it becomes more popular.)


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## nerdhaven

mskunzig said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just wanted to chime in with a bit of info I just recently learned about "white ink".
> 
> No Sub / Dye, but there is now white toner for laser and it is now ONE STEP process.
> 
> Check out the OKI 711WT printer, they are new and expensive $3,395 or so and the white cart is $400. (Won't be using that for a while... should drop as it becomes more popular.)


mskunzig, we are talking about the OKI toner, and the ATI toner. 

At first I thought the white toner was sublimation, but it is clear to me now, that the white toner just adheres to the shirt, and then the ink sublimates into the white toner.


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## IowaArtist

mgparrish said:


> Your white is just formed by the absence of any color in your design, just like printing on white paper. The white is the white on the shirt itself.


Thanks everyone for your input (seriously appreciate your time and expertise)!

But my question still seems unanswered:

I have a design with quite a bit of white and near-whites in it ...


what do I need to do to prepare this image (with lots of whites in it) for dye-sublimation printing (on white shirts)?


when I upload this image to a dye-sublimation printing company, HOW will my design (with lots of white in it) print on a white T-shirt?


When my image (with lots of whites in it) is prepared by the printer for printing, are the whites automatically removed in the process ....... so those areas are replaced by the T-shirt's white-color? (If so, does that mean a loss in detail to my original image?)

Thanks again!


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## mskunzig

It will use the shirt.... ie if you where to do the same transfer on a yellow shirt the white would be the yellow from the shirt!


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## nerdhaven

IowaArtist said:


> Thanks everyone for your input (seriously appreciate your time and expertise)!
> 
> But my question still seems unanswered:
> 
> I have a design with quite a bit of white and near-whites in it ...
> 
> 
> what do I need to do to prepare this image (with lots of whites in it) for dye-sublimation printing (on white shirts)?
> 
> when I upload this image to a dye-sublimation printing company, HOW will my design (with lots of white in it) print on a white T-shirt?
> 
> When my image (with lots of whites in it) is prepared by the printer for printing, are the whites automatically removed in the process ....... so those areas are replaced by the T-shirt's white-color? (If so, does that mean a loss in detail to my original image?)
> Thanks again!


1) Just send the image as-is to your sublimation printing company. There is nothing else to do to prep it.

2) It will print as-is on a white T-shirt

3) There should not be a loss of quality, if your print company is a quality printer.

I don't know what else to tell you.


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## IowaArtist

Thanks so much for the reply -- I had heard that dye-sublimation designs shouldn't have any whites and near-whites in them, or they wouldn't print well, even on white shirts.

*Thanks for putting my mind at ease that they'll print fine after all!*


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## dondelauder

http://www.graphicsone.com/large-format-printers/printers/oki-printers/
There are 2 different Oki Printers that do sublimation printing in white on one sheet of special transfer paper, then on a separate transfer sheet you would do the colored sublimation.
You would then heat press the white transfer sheet onto the item to be sublimated onto, then peal off the white transfer sheet, place the color transfer sheet on the item and heat press again to transfer the color transfer image.


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## mgparrish

dondelauder said:


> http://www.graphicsone.com/large-format-printers/printers/oki-printers/
> There are 2 different Oki Printers that do sublimation printing in white on one sheet of special transfer paper, then on a separate transfer sheet you would do the colored sublimation.
> You would then heat press the white transfer sheet onto the item to be sublimated onto, then peal off the white transfer sheet, place the color transfer sheet on the item and heat press again to transfer the color transfer image.


There are no such things as white _sublimation_ toner or white _sublimation_ ink. You are misreading the descriptions. Both printers are not using anything sublimation related.


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## BrendaPhoto

*Re: How to Replace the White in Dye-Sublimation Images Using White T-shirt's Color*

The white areas are just the absence of color ink.. The white is the white shirt material itself, no ink was applied there. If using a light color shirt, mostly where it should be white, the eye is tricked into feeling those lighter areas are as white. But best bet for perfect white areas and highlights.. a white shirt, 100 % polyester of course.


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## BrendaPhoto

White toner t shirt printer Oki White Toner Printers C920WT
Not for the faint of heart.. or time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnwbmEOJICI


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