# Wasted Sawgrass Ink



## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

Sawgrass is the worst when it comes to product cost and support. And it seems that they have the market cornered. I have 1/3 full carts that are done? Sawgrass gets upwards of $85 per cart. So I estimate that I have about $25 in wasted ink plus shipping. Just on one cart. We need more options other than CIS. See Attached


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

I am not one to support Sawgrass by any means but really the question is how much ink did you use versus how much is left in the cartridge. There has to be ink left in the cartridge or you would constantly have to power clean to prime the printer every time a cartridge ran dry. 

Just another reason to use refillable cartridges.


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## dkgoodrich (Mar 2, 2012)

Very interesting..


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

I’m sure Sawgrass will have a good answer for the ¾ full Black that went to empty and couldn’t be reset. I hear they have exceptional customer support.


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## jpkevin (Oct 22, 2007)

What about the company you bought the ink from? Were they able to support you? Many distributors do not offer any support, and will instead refer you to Sawgrass. Others, offer extensive technical support as part of their services.


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

I purchase inks from three or four suppliers depending on availability and shipping time in order to minimize the overhead of having $ sit on the shelf collecting dust until I need them. I just get the run-a-round when I ask them. No one wants to eat a $85 cart and the vendors are only distributors. They don't they order drop shipment direct from Sawgrass. No overhead cost for them? So it's back to Sawgrass. And they do the same thing. Too many non-responsible parties involved to hold anyone accountable.


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

Straight from Sawgrass. I said they have exceptional support. LOL. 
“We do overfill the Epson cartridges because we don't want to run the risk of air getting into your printer. So there will always be a varying degree of ink left in each cartridge.” “The Magenta and Yellow look like they were at the same amount when the chip read that the cart is out which is the overfill amount. So we won't be able to replace those. All of your carts will read out before all of the ink is gone, but you do get all of the ink that is purchased. All that's left is the overfill amount we give.” 
I guess you get what you pay for. Sometimes....


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Even epson OEM carts Error out of ink and are not completely empty.
Every inkjet printer cart will have ink left in it. 
Like they said if you drained it dry you'd be pulling air up the hose.

Maybe you should weigh your carts before each print and then after and then see if you really do or don't get the ml you bought.


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

Unless you can tell me what a ml. of ink weighs, I don’t think that weighing a cart will tell you much. So for the sake of making my point, here are the facts.

Using a medical grade syringe, I extracted *11.5 ml*. from a brand new, out of the box SublijetIQ R1900 cart. (203202P2, 2/24/13, Ser. 1482C11092011) I was told by one of my suppliers that these carts were listed as *18 ml*? So let’s start with *6.5 ml.* short if this is true. I never got the "18 ml." in writing.

From the _empty _cart shown above, I extracted *3.25* ml. This is the empty cart that Sawgrass said was overfilled. They said that I received and used the full amount of ink volume and the left over 3.25 ml. was to protect my printer. Thank you for that.

Now let’s do the math:
Fact- $83.00 per 11.5 ml. less 3.25 ml to ”PROTECT” my printer leaves 8.25 ml. useable ink. 
Cost: *$10.06 per ml*. plus shipping.

So what is the volume? This is very interesting. If you look around you will find that none of the distributors, including Sawgrass is willing to list the ink volume on the R1900. And if you look even closer, there are no volumes on the product box. Is it not required to disclose product contents content and volume? And what about the Blacked out area on every box that discloses the chemical composition of the contents. They blacked this out with a Sharpie.

It’s not very accurate to advertise printing cost of .60 cents per 8X10 image, even in a bulk CISS. But "results will vary". http://www.sawgrassink.com/v.php?pg=54)  Especially when you use their Drivers that control the ink flow.

Also, in a quote: “You may install and use the SublijetIQ ink packaged herewith in your Epson printer to practice the printing described in U.S. Patent N0. 5.488.907 (Sawgrass Process) 
What is a “_Sawgrass Process_” and how can you patent a chemical transformation? Sublimation is the term for when matter undergoes a physical transformation from a solid to gaseous form, or vapor, without passing through it’s more common liquid phase. In simple, vaporization.
 If you can patent this, then Newton should own the rights to Gravity and we would all need pay. What a market!

OK, This may leave you thinking “Stop Your Whining”. Well I’m not crying about it. The final point is, if the cost is $10.06 per ml. then the cost is $10.06 per ml. I feel the consumer deserves the right to have accurate and unbiased information to decide. What is the secret with actual contents and volume?

So grab your scales, I welcome the opportunity to compare notes. 
Buy Bulk or Buy Sawgrass Stocks.

PS. No Sawgrass Carts were harmed in this study and the copyrighted material referenced in the content was reproduced for research or comparative purposes. The author takes no credit for such materials.© LOL


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Classic post - especially the last paragraph. 

Keep in mind that Sawgrass and their tightly controlled distributors make up a cartel that basically controls not only the distribution but pricing. There is no real price difference of Sawgrass ink from one distributor to the next. 

Simply put this is why a monopoly is so dangerous to a market and consumers. The cartel could care less what you find as in reality you have few choices. 

I so look forward to the day when there is a free market and Sawgrass and their distributors explain to everyone why they have been ripping off the desktop market for the past 10+ years. What is even more amazing is that there are people that move to wide format and still buy their ink -


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Skidream37 said:


> Unless you can tell me what a ml. of ink weighs, I don’t think that weighing a cart will tell you much. So for the sake of making my point, here are the facts.
> 
> Using a medical grade syringe, I extracted *11.5 ml*. from a brand new, out of the box SublijetIQ R1900 cart. (203202P2, 2/24/13, Ser. 1482C11092011) I was told by one of my suppliers that these carts were listed as *18 ml*? So let’s start with *6.5 ml.* short if this is true. I never got the "18 ml." in writing.
> 
> ...


Love your disclaimer!

Conde is showing on their website the mL volume per cart for the 1900 as 15mL per cart.

Irrespective of what actually is in the carts whatever SG told you about overfill is BS. Unless you have a chip resetter then you can't access that "extra" ink anyway. 

Epson got sued over reporting the carts were empty even though they were not. The printer will try and guess how much ink is remaining and update the status monitor. It starts out knowing the ink is at a fixed known _specific_ volume initially, then will guess how much is taken out each time it prints. This continues until the printer thinks it is out of ink.

Putting in more ink won't "defeat" that function, it starts out with what it thinks is in the the _standard_ Epson cart then lowers the level indication each time it prints. If I put a gallon of ink in the cart (not that I could) it won't do me any good unless I reset the cart back to full to use the ink it had previously thought I didn't have, and do so after each "ink empty" message until I consume all the "overfill".

For the patent they claim a specific chemical formulation to use to create a heat transfer. The only _independent_ claim is the formulation of the chemical, the _dependent_ claims are actually putting that chemical into the sublimation dyes, then using the dyes to print an image which is then ran thru a printer, printed onto paper then heat transfered onto a substrate.

The _dependent_ claims of the patent cannot stand alone, so SG calls the combination of the special chemical formulation and the other processes (actually using the specific chemical) a process ... the Sawgrass process. If you were to _sever_ the dependent claims out then the those dependent aspects are not patentable. 

In other words the generic process of making a sublimation transfer and heat transfering it does not violate the patent unless you use a chemical formulation as spelled out in the independent claim. 

The moral of the story is that Sawgrass wants you to think their patent "the Sawgrass Process" is ink jet sublimation printing in general, it is not.

Sawgrass does something similar with Chromablast.

http://sawgrassink.indigofiles.com/...ABLASTv15_Epson_C88_Getting_Started_Guide.pdf 


"You may install and use the ChromaBlast ™ ink packaged herewith in your EPSON printer to practice the printing process described in U.S. Patent No. 6,341,856 (“Sawgrass Process”). The use of any ink, dye or pigment to practice the Sawgrass Process, other than a ChromaBlast™ ink purchased from Sawgrass or its authorized distributor accompanied by a PLA, is not a licensed use of the Sawgrass Process. No rights to use the Sawgrass Process, except those specified herein, are granted, and no rights to use any other process, product, software or hardware developed or sold by Sawgrass are granted or implied hereby."


If Sawgrass abused this Chromablast patent the same way they do their sublimation ink patent then we wouldn't be able to use regular pigment inks for heat transfer over than using "the Sawgrass Process" ... even using Epsons own pigment inks in conjunction with a plastic based transfer paper. But we do and my speculation is that Sawgrass would be trying to monopolize that market as well except they would be in a legal battle vs. Epson, since Epson sells pigment inks and heat transfer papers themselves. So for a big company like Epson the legal costs to fight are chump change to them, otherwise SueGrass would be fighting them too.


So the "Sawgrass Process" _language _is to confuse consumers and potential competitors.​


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

You could buy a chip resetter and reset the chips to use every drop in thos cartridges. They don't cost much money. If you do a little research this has been discussed many times. When I did use sawgrass inks I ever used the cartridges just for this reason.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

sben763 said:


> You could buy a chip resetter and reset the chips to use every drop in thos cartridges. They don't cost much money. If you do a little research this has been discussed many times. When I did use sawgrass inks I ever used the cartridges just for this reason.


I agree, but you must be carefull not to be go beyond that last drop otherwise the printhead is sucking air and could be damaged. That is why refillable carts are the best, you never really waste the inks because you can refill and reset.


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