# Fair Employee Pay?



## Kaolru (Jan 30, 2015)

Hello, I've lurked around this site for a long time, but I don't post much. I'm an employee of a small sporting goods store and print/embroidery shop, and I need the opinion of a 3rd party business owner.

Where I work, we have two floors. The first is for retail sale of various sporting goods items from apparel to archery equipment. The second floor is for embroidery, screen printing and cad-cut.

I've been working here for just under four years, and three of those years have been in embroidery. I had no embroidery experience when I started, as I was hired for the first floor. I started off at minimum wage, which here is $7.25. I then was asked to take over for someone else who left suddenly. With my artistic background and their immediate need for a new embroidery person, I was their choice.

Three years later and I can do anything asked of me in this department. I can also fill in for cad-cut when we're short handed, and I'm also a digitizer. In fact, I'm the only person here who even knows how to digitize. So now we don't have to send artwork out all the time, unless we're too bogged down and I don't have the time. Even then, I've ended up redigitizing designs we've had sent out due to the quality we've received.

I have twelve years of experience with various art programs because I taught myself from a very young age. I learned how to vectorize images and digitize on my own during my free time.

Now for my one big drawback: I have a medical condition that causes me to sometimes miss up to two days a month. Usually only one, but sometimes two, and occasionally I'm lucky and I don't have to miss at all. I have absolutely no control over this issue, and my employers are fully aware of it.

My question for you guys is this: Does my potential to miss these days justify my pay remaining at minimum wage?

I have not received a raise from the moment I started working here. It is still at $7.25. Meanwhile I am surrounded by co-workers who are family, have been here far far longer than I have, get paid far more than I do, and quite honestly--they do less work. There are only two of us in the embroidery department, and we manage, but the other woman has been here for almost 20 years and she...well she just goes through the motions. Maybe it's because she's not an artsy person, but quality control is not one of her priorities. While she has more experience, she's just not able to do the same things I can. (Not trying to perch on my high horse here, just stating facts.)

There are other issues up here involving work ethic, constant mistakes, and general babysitting requirements, but I feel like I've complained enough.

I apologize for the book I've written here, but I want to know what you guys think. I feel very under-appreciated here. I work my butt off when I'm here to make sure things are done correctly and on time. When we're especially busy, I'll even work through my lunch breaks (off the clock) if it feels necessary. The only thing keeping me here is that I like my job and my manager, but he has no say over my pay.

Thank you for your time.


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## Bugmeister (Dec 6, 2015)

It sounds to me that you're contributing significantly more value to the business than when you were hired as an entry level minimum wage employee. You don't specifically say so, but have you outright asked for a raise?

Considering you've been there four years without a cost of living increase, you're actually losing ground as far as income goes. If they don't or won't give you a decent raise then it's probably time to stop letting them take advantage of you (what do you owe them that you work on your lunch breaks????) and start shopping around for better remuneration elsewhere.

As far as your medical condition, the only effect that should have is on any sick day benefits you might have. If they allow you a certain number of paid sick days per year, any days beyond that should be without pay.


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

I'd say you're worth around $10 more than you're getting, however don't expect the company to take your medical condition into consideration.


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## nphektor (Feb 13, 2015)

You're worth way more than min wage ... take your skills elsewhere if after talking to them they don't come to terms...but have the other job lined up before you leave that one


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Kaolru said:


> Hello, I've lurked around this site for a long time, but I don't post much. I'm an employee of a small sporting goods store and print/embroidery shop, and I need the opinion of a 3rd party business owner.
> 
> Where I work, we have two floors. The first is for retail sale of various sporting goods items from apparel to archery equipment. The second floor is for embroidery, screen printing and cad-cut.
> 
> ...


If you're whining about it on TSF than I would say it's probably the right wage. 

If you don't like it do something about it. This is America so you've got options. 

Option 1. Make your case to ownership and ask for more money. A tip from a small business owner - Ask for more responsibility when you do.

Option 2. Go take a job with the competition for more money. If no one local will pay more than you can always...

Option 3. Move somewhere else. Get a job doing the work you do in another city of state for more money or...

Option 4. Change careers. If the market for embroiderers is saturated in your area than take a class and learn a new skill. You can take classes online at Coursera or Udemy and learn a new skill. If you don't want to learn something new than...

Option 5. Go in to business for yourself. Partner up with someone, get some used equipment and hang a shingle. For the first year or so the pay is often lower than minimum wage, but you can build past that in time.

Only you can give yourself a raise. Do you want to?


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## Kenneth59 (Sep 28, 2013)

Bring it up with your employer, just tell them straight up, you do a good job and you show up reliably and you need more money to live. If they value you and your work then you will get a raise, if they dont you wont, if thats the case go find another job. Most times an employer wont just offer you more money, you have to ask for it and in some cases you have to ask for it a couple times. No good business wants to loose a good employee over a few bucks.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Kenneth59 said:


> Most times an employer wont just offer you more money, you have to ask for it and in some cases you have to ask for it a couple times. No good business wants to loose a good employee over a few bucks.


I've always done annual reviews and raises. From what I hear most of the shops in my area do as well.

I think it has to do with the local competition too.


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## Kenneth59 (Sep 28, 2013)

headfirst said:


> I've always done annual reviews and raises. From what I hear most of the shops in my area do as well.
> 
> I think it has to do with the local competition too.


correct some businesses will, some will not but it doesnt hurt the employee to just step up and ask if they feel its due.


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## atarizzz (Dec 17, 2015)

Kaolru said:


> My question for you guys is this: Does my potential to miss these days justify my pay remaining at minimum wage?
> 
> I have not received a raise from the moment I started working here. It is still at $7.25. Meanwhile I am surrounded by co-workers who are family, have been here far far longer than I have, get paid far more than I do, and quite honestly--they do less work.


First thing you should do is just ask for a raise. Don't be too nervous about it. Ask for a quick meeting with your direct supervisor (don't go to the big big boss if there's such a thing there). Mention to your supervisor that you've been there for almost 3 years and are still at minimum wage. Tell them while you appreciate the many opportunities for experience with so many different segments of the business & process, that you've now outgrown your current position and your compensation no longer matches the value you bring to the business.

At this point you need to put the ball in their court and suggest that you would like a raise. As one of the other people replying here suggested - offer to take on more responsibility. Offering to take on additional responsibility, perhaps in the form of cross training additional employees, or being responsible for writing and maintaining documentation of the processes used on the equipment "upstairs". However, if you can offer to be responsible for an area where gaps exist (e.g. process documentation) then this is even better, because it shows you are more than just someone clocking in and out. You are engaging with the business itself.

There should be NO MENTION of your medical condition in this discussion at all - not by you or them. If there is a mention of your occasional medical time off while you are asking for a raise, just quickly mention again that you have a medical condition that requires 1-2 visits to the doctor each month and that this topic should have no bearing on their decision to give you a raise or not. DON'T be defensive, rude, or snappy about it - just try to put it out there as nicely as possible as a reminder of their responsibilities as employers. 


Something else to consider - something that I highly recommend against. While I don't know your specific situation well enough, based on what you've shared with us, it could be that you are being discriminated against for this medical condition. Don't fill your head with ideas on this though. There is no legal process that is both easy and rewarding, and most, for most parties that don't have law degrees, are neither. I would never threaten to sue them or anything like that.

If there isn't a positive response to your request, then just say something like "Well, thanks for considering my request. I appreciate the time you gave me to discuss this with you." No need for ultimatums or getting upset with an unresponsive employer, or one that doesn't care to give you another $100 a week or so. As others have said, at that point shine up your resume with all your new skills and start sending it out to all the competition in town until you get a bite. 

Then be sure to give your current employer 2 weeks notice. Even if they are jerks, you shouldn't be one.


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## atarizzz (Dec 17, 2015)

One other thing to add - as Ripcord suggests, maybe your skills are now worth in the range of $17 an hour (I'm not sure). Just keep in mind you can't expect an employer giving you a raise to make a huge jump to "correct" an underpaid or out of skew wage though. I would suggest asking for no more than $2/hour, but mentioning that the market for your skills set is much higher (if you can confirm that it is). Mention that you understand they probably can't immediately correct your wage to market value, but you would appreciate if you can have another review - as an annual performance review, around Thanksgiving of this year. If you're valuable to the company and they don't think you're easily replaceable, they shouldn't have a problem with any of this.


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## AE7HF (Nov 29, 2015)

17 sounds about right, but I have to agree with HeadFirst. 
best answer I've seen.
employers these days don't like to give raises.. Your better off leaving and then coming back at a new salary. I've walked from jobs at $25 an hour with less work. 
I would just go into business for yourself, buy some equipment, get a loan and just do it.


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## claymoreandy (Nov 27, 2015)

Hi, 
It's always to get the risk with a business. So, if you are not satisfied with your boss, you'd better to change your job to another company. But it is more difficult to start your own business. Considering if you can take the risk that you will not earn the money and lose all the investment.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Everyone is paid exactly what they are worth. If they are worth more they would move to the place that paid it. If you want a raise, ask for it. If you don't want to ask then move to another company that pays more.


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## EXTouch (Mar 22, 2007)

Interesting. 

I agree with a lot of what was said. But I also think that since he's asking for a range of what other people doing the same job are making. 

We have one part time employee making $10 an hour. He runs the machines and cleans and folds shirts. Just on the embroidery side. If he was doing all that you say you do, I'd have no problem raising his pay to 15-20/hr.

Approach the owners. Look for other options. And if you find something and have something else lined up, then see if they are willing to meet the pay of the other place. Maybe then they will see your worth. 

Good luck 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## Bugmeister (Dec 6, 2015)

It might help if you take examples of how your skills are bringing in the money for them - what is your value added. The more you can present in your favour as someone generating good revenue for them, the more likely they are to give you a raise.

It would likely be good to avoid anything resembling an ultimatum or unreasonable demands unless you have a parachute plan. They already filled your position once with an unqualified, untrained worker (you) so they know they can do it again.


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## Rebelgraphics (Dec 10, 2015)

four years with no raise???, boy is time to move on.
If your background is design, you should at least make $15


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## pmzirkle (Oct 5, 2014)

Buy a heat press
Sounds like you probably have a CPU and graphic arts software
Get a business license 
Start up out of the garage and build up your own company
You have the skills and experience 
Buy more equipment as you go


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## Kaolru (Jan 30, 2015)

(Apparently asking for input means I'm a fairly worthless employee. Interesting.)

I want to thank everyone here for their input. I greatly appreciate the external point of view. I would have responded sooner, but my internet gave out for a few days.

I have been given great advice on how to approach this subject with my boss, and I'm going to take it. I am by no means expecting a large raise, if anything at all. I'm not greedy. In fact, I would be shocked if it went up by $2. There is only one guy who deals with payroll and he is the only one who can make that decision, but I think I'm going to talk to my upstairs manager first anyway. He's in charge of the upstairs, so he knows better than anyone if I do in fact deserve a raise.

I wish we had yearly reviews, I really do. I would love to get feedback on where I could be improving. I'm not afraid of working. Our handbook says only that raises are up to the boss, and no mention of review or discussion. I think the problem is that this is a family-run business and no one has the interest in doing things that way. My manager doesn't have the time. He's here for absurdly long hours trying to get things done, something we hourly employees who are not family are not allowed to do, even if it's just to help in a pinch.

As I said in my original post, the man in charge of payroll is almost never upstairs, so he doesn't see how things are done or who is doing them. Perhaps my manager can back me up if necessary.

I have no desire to start up my own business due to the amount of small scale competition. This is a very small town, but it seems like everyone and their brother has a screen printer or vinyl cutter in their garage. They're not exactly hiring either.

Anyway, thank you again for the suggestions. I appreciate all of them, even the unjustifiably rude ones.


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