# I'm in the market for a solid reliable DTG printer -IS BROTHERR BROTHER THE ANSWER??



## Swedish Lillies (Aug 28, 2011)

So many to choose from you can get a bad headache.
Brother grafitti printer looks like the way to go because of the technical help and support that comes with it. But those damn ink prices, can you say price gouging!!!

Anybody recommend another dtg printer with good tech help and support and fair ink prices


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Check out the different threads on the brand/models your comparing. Find out how long the printer has been in the field? warranty term .. (view/read end user experiences) I agree with you on the ink prices OUCH slow roi... customer service/reliability/ quaility of print/final product/ink cost etc etc.. Please do your homework!! It does give most- many headaches with all the choices,but your business/wallet will thank you in the end!! Happy Friday!!


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## blzpowr (Apr 16, 2011)

Check out the *Belquette Mod 1*. We're running one and it is the best, most honest piece of equipment on the market. The support is outstanding. No razzle dazzle hype and theatrics. They put the first wide format DTG on the market and have constant (free) upgrades and lifetime support.

We researched manufacturers and the equipment for close to a year before we made our decision.

Make a thorough investigation and perform your due diligence.​


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

If your business offers CMYK printing only (no dark shirts), then the ink price will be acceptable immediately. We printed about 50K light shirts with a Brother GT-541 and the average ink price was about $0.70/shirt. No maintenance problems, no pretreatment, no waiting for the slow white ink printing, constant printing quality (washability), no ink curing problems, no learning curve. Practically "push the green button and take the money".  

You can buy a used GT-541 or a new 341 with CMYK only. The 341 can be upgraded to 361 or 381 later with white ink print heads.

In my opinion for CMYK printing the Brother 341, or 541 is a no brainer, for white ink, the decision is more difficult. The high ink prices, the slow printing, the required pretreatment, the more problematic ink curing, the extra costs, etc. can be VERY inconvenient parameters for some businesses.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Just about all epson base machines can be run in dual cmyk mode if your pursuing just white/light garments with much lower ink cost.. Additionally cost out the difference in epson printheads vs non epson/ epson heads are much cheaper... just a few things to consider in the big picture Did i mention print quality there is a difference between machines!


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## Swedish Lillies (Aug 28, 2011)

thanks so much for the information, wow this site is so informative! =) i intend on doing whites and darks as well. Do you recommend a machine that does both without the hassle for darks that is associated with the grafitti models


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

All white ink dtg printers come with additional "hassle" compared to CMYK only printers. There is currently no way around the additional steps one must do in order to print on dark garments using CMYK+W inks and also maintain the printer. This is why I say that dark garment printing is not for everyone and you can find posts on this forum where several companies started printing with white ink and shortly removed it from the printer. 

I strongly suggest that you go and see any dtg printer you are considering in person. Ask questions about what type of printing environment it needs to be in and then get a digital gauge to measure what the environment is where you are considering putting the printer in. This will tell you how much more work you have to do to just create an acceptable environment to store and use your printer in. When you see the printers, ask them to show you all the steps (including pretreating - whether manual or using an automatic pretreater) that goes into making a one-off dark garment. Calculate the total time to do this (includes all the time to apply / cure the pretreat, what steps they do to apply the pretreat, what has to be done to the artwork to get it ready for printing, time it takes to print, the steps done for curing the garment / # of times it takes to open close the press, what paper is recommended and the cost associated with it,...). Then you have to look at the time and cost of prepare the printer before you start printing and maintenance to keep it running. My recommendation on this one is to speak to actual users. You will see that it will vary a lot due to the amount of printing being done and the environment the printer is stored in. In most cases, the sales reps totally underestimate this and that is why you see so many people get upset on the forums about white ink. Ask the sales reps for a worse case scenario and then compare it to actual users that you find on the forum. Don't just speak with the users that a sales rep provides to you.

Bottom line, this is a big investment for almost all companies in today's economy. There are more factors that can play a role in whether your company will be successful with a white ink dtg printer. Spend some time doing the extra work I stated above and you will be in a much better position to make an informed decision.

Best wishes in the future,

Mark


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Agree with Mark,
All future DTG owners have to decide which will fit to themselves.
Give points to each items. If your choice is 5 DTGs. Points should be 1.2.3.4.5.
Run excel sheet and highest score is your choice. 
Price of machine.
Reputation.
Service
Customer satisfaction rate.
Quality.
What Printheads and engine are they using and which is your favorite.
Production speed.
Longevity.
Replacement cost.
Used market value.
Sample requests.
Cost of running printer. Parts and supplies.
All answers are in TSF.
Good luck.
Cheers! Happy Easter!


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

if you decide white ink is in your future, check out the NeoFlex. the NeoRIP Pro, customer service, tech service, printer reliability, accurate registration, etc, is tops to me. we put out high quality on every print, and while the Brother line is very good and well made, my personal opinion is that Epson heads and DuPont ink give the best prints right now when judging the feel, vibrancy, and detail.

you also may want to consider out-sourcing your DTG jobs for now as there are numerous developments taking place within the DTG world that may be worth waiting for.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

There is no trouble free DTG printer especially when printing white. Some are just less troublesome then others. Then satisfactory results are obtained by proper pretreatment, proper training for the DTG printer, proper environment, and some luck as well. I am not knocking any brand or printer.

Before investing make sure you have the work to keep a printer going. A DTG printer needs to be used and the more the better. If starting out it maybe worth getting a contract printer to print for you to see if you can sell enough to keep it printing. 

Keep in mind several of the users here are sellers of DTG suppliers and all have given some good advice but move cautiously and do some more searching on the forum here. With almost all the printers there has been success stories and horror stories. Some just have more then the other of each result. 

See if the supplier can give you a shop name within a few hundred mile radius of you that you can contact and go see the machine in action. You will have to travel a bit as most shops that are too close won't help. Good luck.


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## Resolute DTG (Jun 27, 2010)

Swedish Lillies said:


> thanks so much for the information, wow this site is so informative! =) i intend on doing whites and darks as well. Do you recommend a machine that does both without the hassle for darks that is associated with the grafitti models


You also have to take into account footprint, all DTG's have different production rates and are all different sizes. if your tight for space or if you have a lot to spare will also determine your final choice.


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

All great advice!!
Regarding footprint pros cons.. I would also throw in work flow advantage on multiple platen systems/your printer is always printing in this system while your doing other tasks pretreat/heat press etc.. Print Area, over size/large prints your not limited to manufacturer single platen size.. Printer modularity! will it adapt to printing on other substrate items outside of shirts like promo items/signage etc? If its in your budget this is a big advantage opening other markets for you with minimal price difference in brand units or large investment on seperate single function machines.. lots to look at in the big picture, shoot for the biggest bang for your buck..


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## Resolute DTG (Jun 27, 2010)

german13 said:


> All great advice!!
> Regarding footprint pros cons.. I would also throw in work flow advantage on multiple platen systems/your printer is always printing in this system while your doing other tasks pretreat/heat press etc.. Print Area, over size/large prints your not limited to manufacturer single platen size.


Jeff I forgot to mention multiple non fixed platens !!, another point to take into account which you also mention is modular. Systems that grow when you need to increase production allow for lower initial investment saving valuable cash. Of course all these high production points are a little over kill for a new start business but taken into account now will pay dividends later on when the business grows.


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## scotney86 (Mar 15, 2011)

@ Swedish Lillies - I was in exactly the same boat when i purchased my first DTG Printer here in the UK. Unfortunately the printer bred problem after problem and the tech support and aftersales supports was extremely poor to say the least. I battled on through the problems for 16months and by the time i was spending £800+ per month on repairs and call outs i got rid.

Due to the position the unreliable printer put me in financially i was on the verge of folding the business. I got chatting to a few people and was put in contact with Resolute DTG. I demo'd the RJET-4 printer and carried out some in-depth research on the company. I couldn't find a bad word against them so i went ahead and purchased one. That was about 7/8 months ago now. I have not had a single problem with the machine, no parts have been replaced and no call outs required. I couldn't have asked for a better, more reliable printer. Whenever i have needed a question answering or needed any help it has always been answered immediately and ive even had answers emailed back to me in the early hours of the morning. 

This may all seem irrelevant to you as i am in the UK however i am aware that Resolute DTG has just been launched in the US (New Jersey i believe) and that it was showcasing at ISS this year. Some of you may not be aware of Resolute DTG in the US as it has just been started. Before making any decisions i strongly recommend you guys check out their range of printers before purchasing. If its reliability, user friendly and high quality prints coupled with the best after-sales support around then i cannot recommend these guys enough. It turned my business around by doing exactly what it says on the tin!

Heres a link to their website....... Home - resolutedtgusa.com

Theres alot of info and reviews on the forums for Resolute DTG, have a search.

*I have no involvement with Resolute DTG other than being an extremely happy customer. I've witnessed the mess that other printers/companies can put you in so i am more than happy to promote Resolute Ink in the hope that no-one else gets put in the same position i was put in.


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

Does brother sells the most expansive white ink one earth ?
Did they realese a GT-782 which cost $50 per day of maintenance fluid or waste ink ?

lol


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## Swedish Lillies (Aug 28, 2011)

Brother needs to come up with a much more effective method of printing on darks! Price gouging is a no no and is such a turn off!!!


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I am not a Brother employee or an official spokesperson either. So I certainly can't speak on behalf of Brother. 

The only thing I can think of as to how this poster got this information would be if (s)he did a tube cleaning at least once (maybe twice) a day. The GT-782 has a white ink retrieval system built in that allows for somewhere around 80% of the white ink in the tubes to be retrieved back into the cartridge. So that ink is not wasted. If guess if you decided to flush the ink with maintenance solution, you might be able to get to that number. But that would be equivalent to doing an oil change on your car ever 100 miles instead of every 3000 miles.

TPrint is an owner of a GT-782 printer in Europe and is in a better position to state what his maintenance cost are. 

I was recently speaking with someone that is in the lucky financial position where he could purchase any type of dtg printer. He wanted to know exactly what type of maintenance was done by each printer on its own and what is recommended for him to do. His frustration was that several of the manufacturers that he spoke to could not provide him specific data and made it sound like the maintenance costs were very low. Yet, there are plenty of posts here in all the machine sections that state about running head cleans, power cleans, purges, automatic spitings,... that fall into this and that he wanted actual data on. Since the data would require having complete access to the firmware on all the printers (which we know Epson will not provide to any of the Epson-based dtg manufacturers), the only way to get this information would be to do a controlled, scientific test that measures the actual ink usage during a period of time of printing (i.e. 2 weeks or so). To compare machines, you would need one of each printer you want to compare to be put into the same controlled environment (temperature, humidity) and print the same exact artwork (files and sizes). By taking an actual weight measurement of all ink that is put into the printer after it is put into a print ready position at the beginning of the 2-week print period, you could determine what the total amount of ink consumption would be for each printer. You could then use either the RIPs/driver calculations for the amount of ink used to determine approximately what ink was put on the garment and what was ultimately wasted through maintenance procedures. Not an easy test to perform to get this data. But I can understand his reason for wanting this information. Too many sales companies underestimate the amount of maintenance and labor cost needed to run and maintain dtg printers because they want the sale of the printer. In the end, it just hurts the reputation of all dtg printers being sold.

Hope this information helps.

Mark


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## Baileygarden (Aug 16, 2011)

We purchased a GT541 a year and 1/2 ago and have had no troubles. We haven't used it much due to completely unrelated circumstances but I found it easy to operate as a newbie.


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## Resolute DTG (Jun 27, 2010)

Swedish Lillies said:


> thanks so much for the information, wow this site is so informative! =) i intend on doing whites and darks as well. Do you recommend a machine that does both without the hassle for darks that is associated with the grafitti models


Smart move, the CMYK only market is less than 20% in Europe, it is a little higher in the US.

Don't forget, you can print light & dark with a white + CMYK printer, CMYK only prints so fast speed will not be an issue. Without the white ink you will turn most of the European work to your competitors who do have white ink !!!.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Folks, let's leave the "which machine should I get" opinion type threads for the actual machine owners to answer.
*
When you have vendors answering, all of the replies seem to mysteriously highlight features to look for that their machine excels in  

These are the threads that vendors should skip unless there are questions directly asked about your specific machine that you can answer with a simple factual answer (no sales pitches or indirect pitches please )

Any questions about this, please contact me directly so this thread can stay on track...​


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