# Sell out or Royalty to NFL team.



## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I was contacted today by a marketing associate for an NFL team. A while back I created a design and used a name that was not made up by me ( but it was by fans and free to use) The design was mine. Now it seems the team has bought the rights to this name.

Anyway. I sent the design printed to 4 players after contacting one of them via Twitter and getting an address to send.. A few weeks later I was contacted and thanked for the shirts. Now, two months later , today I got a call. They saw the shirts and my cards I sent along with them.

Caught me off guard and they asked me about my design and if is was selling it, etc. I told them no I was not. It is on my site because I created it. The shirts were sent to players and not sold in hopes that they would get pics and send them back to me. I could use it in portfolio on site.

After a 5 minute discussion, they thanked me for my honesty and said. We love your design. But the shirts you printed on are not of NFL standards so that is why you didnt get pics, But I can make that happen.

Now they will be getting back to me. He said I will have choices one will be to sell out right, one will be royalty. He then spoke of possible future designs. All his info checks out and he is who he said he was.

I am excited but I am worried. I do not want to make a wrong choice. I like Royalty Idea, but Players come and go. ( even though these guys are locked in for the next 5 years.)

The design is something that I dont think will with stand the test of time. Unless they hit a Super Bowl. Sell outright or Royalty. I dont have a number yet. I dont know what that number should be. They will be selling it nationwide to fans I would imagine. It could be hot for a year or 5 or more No one really knows. Should I get a lawyer?


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

Sell outright.

Half of something is better than twice of nothing.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using T-Shirt Forums


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Yes, you should get an attorney. If the team is taking this on as part of their merchandising, then let them take it and run with it. They will do more with it than you will. Take the royalty. This way you make money as they make money. And trust me, they will have incentive to make money. If you take a flat fee, you will almost assuredly sell yourself short.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Is the design a team design or player design? At first I thought it sounded like it was a team orientated design, but then I don't know why the length of the players contracts would have anything to do with it?

As far as your question, it is impossible to answer or even give an educated opinion without first knowing the wording of the contract and dollars and percentages being offered.

And to answer your last question. Yes, before signing a contract I would recommend that you have an attorney review it.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

I was typing as Tim was posting. I defer to him on this because of his acumen on this subject.


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## Olperez1 (Feb 24, 2013)

I strongly suggest taking the royalty payments with a signed agreement between you and the team/NFL, and get an attorney for the verbage of the contract. Negotiate with the attorney to pay him after your first check is received. He might ask for a percentage but never pay more than 10% of what you are getting. Some attorneys will try to get more knowing that you don't know anything about it, but get second and third rate options from different attorneys. Never sign based on the team/NFL rep telling you its all covered on the agreement. If they don't want to give you an agreement/contract to pay you on, then it's a shady deal.

Good luck and keep us posted. You got our full support. Nice to see fellow designers hitting it big with corporations that some can only dream of.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Personally I would never pay an attorney a percentage of my income or profits. He/she isn't bringing me the business or acting as an agent of any sorts. I would expect my attorney to bill me her standard hourly rate for the time that it takes her to review the contract and make any necessary language change to it before I signed it.


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## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

Louie2010 said:


> Personally I would never pay an attorney a percentage of my income or profits. He/she isn't bringing me the business or acting as an agent of any sorts. I would expect my attorney to bill me her standard hourly rate for the time that it takes her to review the contract and make any necessary language change to it before I signed it.


 


I agree completely.


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## LindaLittleHat (Oct 1, 2009)

I used to work in the licensing world on the licensee end. We licensed the rights from major companies for their characters and movies. We had to pay a royalty fee anywhere from 7 to 15% in addition to an upfront fee. Depending on the company and their projections on how well the movie could do, the upfront fee ranged from $10,000 into hundreds of thousands.

You definitely want a lawyers input but ideally a lawyer who has licensing experience. As the licensor you have specific rights. That could include design approval of the graphics, how they're used, the products they are used on, to review the licensees books, the list is endless.

Also, the most important aspect of the license is which category you give them rights to produce. If your design is a huge hit you don't want them to have exclusivity to the design. You may want the option to license the design to other companies to use on different products.

Again, an attorney with licensing experience will know how to protect you. Best of luck!


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

( the design is not about the team as a whole or one individual. It is a group of 4) You may be able to figure it out from there..

Well, Here is the thing. The saying on the shirt, was made by the fans. Somehow either this team got in there and bought the rights to the saying, scooping it up before anyone else could do anything about it. ( i think that is the case) because this name used was fan given to a group of guys on the Defense that they used last season. I am almost certain no one person got rights for the name.

When they called they questioned the design and spoke of possible infringement. That is when I set them in their place about the saying on the shirt and where it came from. I was there on the site when it was named and gave them the link to the very day it was made up.

So I think they stepped in and took the name. Since my design revolves around that saying, Of course I wouldn't sell it. Never crossed my mind. And that's what they were doing by questioning me. Had I been selling it, I would have fallen into infringement and not known it because I didnt know they took it.

I thought it would be cool to have players wearing it. Post it on the site for the fans to beat their chests about and me to use in portfolio. 

Now that it no longer belongs to the fans,I am a little angry.

They asked me if I had the design copy written. I said no, It wasnt my saying. But the design is mine. And the proof is on twitter the day I contacted the player, On facebook the day I posted the design and the team site.

He stopped me and said,I didnt have to get defensive, They are not out to steal it, They want credit due to the creator and want to purchase or offer royalties and a possible future of more designs. I wish I could tell you and show you. But at this time I think I should just shut up. But the first place I thought of was here for some initial advice. 

Sorry this is so long winded.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

There are multitude of issues here. Nothing wrong with getting some advice on the forums, but it's clear that you need an attorney. Start from the beginning and figure out exactly who owns what and for what uses. Then you can figure out what you own and can legally license out to the team. There is no reason to be angry here. There seems to be a great opportunity. Just be open and flexible and willing to negotiate. Get an attorney and start working towards a profitable relationship with the team. Working with them will be better than working against them.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

True. I will be waiting for the next meeting with them. I just need to keep my head straight. The goal from the beginning was a simple picture with them wearing my design. That is what I still want! Anything else that happens beyond that is just icing on the cake. And possible more icing later!


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

DigitalInkArts said:


> The goal from the beginning was a simple picture with them wearing my design. That is what I still want!


It's not that easy. One of the issues with this is existing licensing deals. During team activities, players need to wear team issued gear from the official licensees. Some players also have their own licensing deals in place. I've seen photos of players holding up shirts in front of them instead of wearing them. That is because wearing them would violate an existing agreement. So to make this happen, you probably need to work out a deal with the team.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I reached out to a Dr who is in sports Medicine. He operated on me 5 times in two years for some carpal tunnel. Turned into somewhat of a friend. He takes care of a couple pro teams and may know of a few friends on the sports side of things. lawyers and such. He may also have some advise for me. Best I can do right now. Lawyers, not cheap. Not that I am But I am not wealthy either!


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## adobelvr (Jun 1, 2013)

Don't get a lawyer live and learn and keep the money in your pocket, it's not as scary as others would have you think. Take the royalties, residual income is fixed income no matter how small it is a few years from now and that is a huge asset. Just read whatever they send you when you come across jargon you don't understand work harder to figure it out. Then you won't be the 'OMG big score what do I do?!' guy on a forum, rather you'll be getting close to the guy with the "Been there done that...and bought the t-shirt' guy.


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## MadeByM.E.313 (Nov 20, 2010)

Wishing you a great outcome from this DJ. 
You are the ideal example of what I believe all designers want, National Recognition or bigger and of course great pay.

Hope it all works out for you Sir.

Inspired from Detroit. 
Vic


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