# Have Dye Sublimation Companies Been Lying to Us?



## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

So, Betsy is at it again. In this video she prints using her dye-sub printer onto "official" dye-sub transfer paper, some other type of paper, and some regular copy paper. Looks different on the paper, but comes out _the same_ on the substrate.

I wish she would have washed the shirt to see how it holds up.


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

I don't see how it would be different wrt to washing.

If the dye makes the journey, by way of sublimation which is dependent on the temperature then it shouldn't affect how it is washed. 

I can't see how any piece of paper would impede the dye being heated to the temperature of the press.


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## rowan one (Jun 28, 2019)

The results look good but since the dye leaked through the non dysub papers I would suggest that there was a heavy loss of dye that didn't transfer. Didn't seem to do any harm though.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

Her designs were a bit abstract. I would have liked to have seen how a sharper design turned out on hard and soft substrates.

Also, what ink is she using? You can make huge savings by not using Sawgrass inks. There's virtually no difference in results from Sawgrass inks and other reputable third-party inks. In fact, sometimes the third-party inks perform better, particularly the black ink.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

I've always known that you could get away with using plain paper. And while it may not be noticeable on the video, using a high release paper like the texprint will get you a deeper saturated color. Maybe not noticeable unless you're looking for it, but if you/your client is a stickler for true colors, stick with the better paper.

It's too bad she didn't show how much ink was left on each of the papers after pressing.


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## rowan one (Jun 28, 2019)

Yes, I would have liked to see the paper too.


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## lilsuz (Oct 16, 2007)

Interesting stuff here Ziggy. Food for thought anyhow!

My brain has been playing with the idea of using regular copy paper too and I did a test the other day on a broken coffee mug to see if regular copy paper would allow me to make a decent sublimation transfer with the only print I could make with my Epson WK-7110. Results:It worked! https://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t877197.html#post4437127

After doing a bit of study on what makes a suitable paper for my work - Epson Workforce printer, Inkowl sublimation ink, and a white Sublimation Mug, I discovered that "clay" coatings on special papers is what makes the ink sit on top of the paper. At least that is the information I got from paper manufacturers.

I recall clay coated papers from when I used to do hand-drawn ink lines (illustrations) for lithographic printing. You could easily scratch out something you did not like in the drawing because the ink did not absorb into the paper, it sat on top of the clay coating.

So I am experimenting now with different papers. I'm not unhappy at all with the results I got with the plain copy paper. When I get my sublimation printer(s) working right, I'm going to test them on some more detailed images. I will probably go with a clay coated paper, and I think I want to use a thicker paper.

Hope that helps!


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

Why bother with expensive copier paper? You could probably use a slice of Ham, if you could get it into your printer. The shirts might be a bit greasy, but you could eat the crispy ham - saving on your grocery bills.


How much are you really saving by not using the proper stuff? At about 30 pence/ 40 cents for a full colour A3+/Super B print the costs are far lower than virtually any other method, bar screen printing.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

PatWibble said:


> Why bother with expensive copier paper? You could probably use a slice of Ham, if you could get it into your printer. The shirts might be a bit greasy, but you could eat the crispy ham - saving on your grocery bills.<img src="http://www.t-shirtforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> How much are you really saving by not using the proper stuff? At about 30 pence/ 40 cents for a full colour A3+/Super B print the costs are far lower than virtually any other method, bar screen printing.


Just a word of warning here folks... 

Don't use breaded ham! It's made a right mess of my printer...


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

PatWibble said:


> Why bother with expensive copier paper? You could probably use a slice of Ham, if you could get it into your printer. The shirts might be a bit greasy, but you could eat the crispy ham - saving on your grocery bills.
> 
> 
> How much are you really saving by not using the proper stuff? At about 30 pence/ 40 cents for a full colour A3+/Super B print the costs are far lower than virtually any other method, bar screen printing.


Exactly! The number one cost is labor/time yet few ever even think of ways to reduce such. You start using non dye sub paper, cheap inks, etc what do you really save in cost if selling a mug as an example?


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

webtrekker said:


> breaded ham!


WTF! That sounds as nasty as New Jersey Pork Roll.


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## PatWibble (Mar 7, 2014)

DrivingZiggy said:


> WTF! That sounds as nasty as New Jersey Pork Roll.



Is this a Spam post?


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## WalkingZombie (Mar 15, 2014)

Yea, we tested this years ago just to see if there was a difference and came across the same thing as she did. The ink slightly went through to the other side. But other than that, pressed fine. We didn't want to risk contaminating the upper platen, even with using more scratch paper, and kept using paper made for sublimation.


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## lilsuz (Oct 16, 2007)

Pat, you are soooo right! LOL

Wow, lots of grease left after heat pressing with ham. 
Didn't save any money on that process either! 

So I have concluded: Paper made for sublimation works much better!
 

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PatWibble said:


> Why bother with expensive copier paper? You could probably use a slice of Ham, if you could get it into your printer. The shirts might be a bit greasy, but you could eat the crispy ham - saving on your grocery bills.
> 
> 
> How much are you really saving by not using the proper stuff? At about 30 pence/ 40 cents for a full colour A3+/Super B print the costs are far lower than virtually any other method, bar screen printing.


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

Sublimation inks are solid sublimation dye particles suspended in a liquid carrier. Sublimation comes from the word sublime, which means to pass directly from the solid to the vapor state.

These solid dye particles turn into a vapor state and sublimate. Heat causes the reaction, pressure assists with application. 

Knowing the definition helps to know whether companies are "lying to us." If you sublimate onto a piece of sublimation ready aluminum, and then put another piece of aluminum on top of it under heat and pressure, I imagine you'll see some of those inks sublimate onto the other piece of aluminum. Just as some ink is left on the paper after sublimating, you will now have dye on both pieces of aluminum. 

Sublimation paper therefore is an assistive aid that promotes the transfer of the vapored sublimation dyes. Some papers are made better than others and the transfer of dye greater.


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