# payment arrangment



## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

First off, thanks for all the help every one has given me thus far. Question, I was in radio shack picking up something for my exposure unit and told the cashier what I needed, he asked if I made shirts. Told him not yet but starting a business as we speak. Turns out he's a pasture and wants 500 shirts for his church! So my question is, being I feel like I have gotten in over my head since I still haven't printed my first shirt yet, but am tonight anyways, I order all these shirts I'm broke, what if I print all these shirts and he backs out. Should I ask for some payment up front?? Help


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

211chucky said:


> First off, thanks for all the help every one has given me thus far. Question, I was in radio shack picking up something for my exposure unit and told the cashier what I needed, he asked if I made shirts. Told him not yet but starting a business as we speak. Turns out he's a pasture and wants 500 shirts for his church! So my question is, being I feel like I have gotten in over my head since I still haven't printed my first shirt yet, but am tonight anyways, I order all these shirts I'm broke, what if I print all these shirts and he backs out. Should I ask for some payment up front?? Help


There are thousands of scams out there regarding pastors who want 500 shirts for their churches or orphanages. But those usually come by phone or email.


NEVER, EVER buy the shirts up front. Get a written order and at the very least 1/2 of the cost for everything or whatever your supplies are going to come to first and that part is nonrefundable. I prefer getting the payment in full. I've been burned (luckily not for much) in the past and so have a lot of other people. 

You're not a bank and you aren't in the business of lending money. He may have been pulling your chain. And don't take any orders from anyone until you know what you're doing and can do it well.


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

Ok he told me what he wanted and I am having a really hard time finding the font that is on his page. So I need to find out how to do a order request and figure cost and get half money up front. What is the average mark up on an order, I don't to over price the bid, it could be a great start up thing for me!!


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

I don't screen print so take this advice with a grain of salt. That said since you have never printed even one shirt as of yet, you might consider another option for this order. Try and find a contract printer, and see if you can add maybe an extra .50 per shirt to the price and if you get the job you make a easy $250.00 for very little work and little risk (providing you get the money up front from the customer).

Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

There is a big learning curve with screen printing. The first problem is learning how to apply emulsion to your screens correctly and correctly burning a screen. Then comes the issues of learning how to print. Then how to cure the ink. You're putting the cart before the horse thinking you can just jump in without ever printing a shirt and doing 500 with your first order. Louie has a good idea, farm it out to someone who knows what they are doing.


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## JohnBee (Nov 28, 2010)

i think you are not ready yet to commit to 500 shirts.
how quick does he needs it?

if less than a week, you need to contract this out to other screen printer.....BUT, get a 50% deposit.....AND make sure you cover all your costs (including artwork time).....AND your markup price.


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## Pwear (Mar 7, 2008)

Do NOT print these shirts yourself if you've never done it. Not to say you can't, but to try to print 500 shirts perfectly on your first go is an unnecessary risk. If the shirts are mis-cured, the print will run, flake or fall off in the wash. If you don't expose the screen properly you'll be in deep water from the get-go. If this is someone that you think may re-order or recommend more customers, you do NOT want to use his order as your first experiment. Get the order printed by a reputable printer, and mark it up for your customer. After that, you'll have a few bucks in the bank and all the time in the world to learn screen printing properly, and with MUCH less frustration. Believe me, learning under a deadline is the worst.

As far as payment, I agree with the above - 50% deposit up front, with the balance due BEFORE his shirts are in-hand.


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## irish (Dec 13, 2008)

We require FULL payment up front before starting any order. Having been burned once too often, that is our policy and so far except for one school, no one has complained. We also have not lost an order because of it either.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Check to see what it would cost to contract the job out. Get ALL the money up front. Make sure his payment method, i.e. check, cc, is valid and clears before getting the job done. I would ask for a certified check from a bank. If he is legit, this should not be a problem. If he is not legit, then he will make some excuse not to have you do the job, and you will not have been scammed.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

100% up front on all orders baby.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

> Turns out he's a pasture


I will bet his flock really loves him then... you know how sheep love a good pasture! 

and, just so this thread is not 100% sarcastic...

I require 100% paid in full for orders under $1000. For orders above $1000 they pay 50% at the time of the order and the balance at pick up or delivery. 

They ask "Do I have to pay in advance??"
I say "Yep... If you don't pay me then I won't make them!"

It is SUPER IMPORTANT for you to get payment or deposit for the order. NOT just to cover your costs, but it also serves to commit the customer to the order too. That payment creates an important relationship between you and the customer. 

Without that payment it is too easy for the customer to get cold feet and change their minds. What if the event gets canceled and they never come back to pick up the order? What if they excitely tell their buddy about the cool new shirts they ordered... then the buddy says 'Hey! My cousin does shirts... he'll do them for less than that guy..". BAM... you get screwed. 

People have a subconscious desire to get something when they give their money to someone. They are HAPPY to pay you if they will then get what they want. You have their shirts, they want them and are perfectly willing to pay you and then get something. It completes the emotional buying circuit. 

If you give them the shirts and they don't pay you then when it is time to pay the bill they are no longer motivated. They ALREADY have what they want. Now, paying you just means they have less money. It is subconsciously a negative thing just like paying your phone bill. They have NO motivation to pay quickly or maybe even at all! 

You also have no leverage if they do not pay. They already have what they wanted. Now paying you is just a hassle. It leaves a subconscious negative in their minds because now they see you as just another bill they have to pay (without getting anything in return... even though they already got the shirts! They feel like they are writing a check but there is no reward for doing it.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

jiarby said:


> I will bet his flock really loves him then... you know how sheep love a good pasture!
> 
> .


LOL, yeah, I almost went there myself. 

But it probably is good you pointed it out. If he addressed the pastor when submitting a quote in that way, he probably would have little chance of getting the job.


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## Pwear (Mar 7, 2008)

jiarby said:


> I will bet his flock really loves him then... you know how sheep love a good pasture!
> 
> and, just so this thread is not 100% sarcastic...
> 
> ...


Awesome post, you're exactly correct though I never looked at it from that psychological angle before.


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

well guys, thanks alot for all the advice. it is deffinatly going to come in handy if i ever get this figured out. i just finished printing my first shirt and it didnt come out as expected. i mean, it isnt bad. i used the CMYK process and it just came out off colored. im sure that it is something i did in the seperation process. the main problem was getting my press set up. every time i got my reg marks lined up and lifted the screen and put it back down it was in a different spot!!????? man, it was driving me crazy. it took me 3 hours to get it lined up half #$% so that i could give it a trial run. i am not giving up though. i will figure it out. so any advice on setting up my press easier PLEASE let me know!!


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## Pwear (Mar 7, 2008)

What kind of press do you have? Check that your platen is secure and not moving around, and the same for your screen clamps and registration clamps (the place that the head sits in the press when you lower the screen).


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't know what kind of press it is, 6 color. With 4 platens on it, it weights a ton. I did check all those things and the only thing I can see that is making it harder is when I tighten down the screen it moves and I can't figure out how to keep it still. Im taking a pic now and uploading it


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

well i cant figure out how to upload now and i have done it before!??


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

jiarby said:


> It is SUPER IMPORTANT for you to get payment or deposit for the order. ,... but it also serves to commit the customer to the order too. That payment creates an important relationship between you and the customer.
> 
> Without that payment it is too easy for the customer to get cold feet and change their minds....


it is called 'qualifying the lead'. why do all that work when the customer doesn't have any skin in the game.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

At the bottom of the comment box are 2 options post quick reply and go advanced. Click go advanced, then near the bottom of that screen it says manage files or something like that, click that and you get your upload screen then browse through your pics till you find the one you want and upload it.

Sorry you're having problems with that CMYK process. Most folks start off with a simple text shirt till they get the basics down. You're quite the over achiever. You just have to make sure everything is tight and won't move.


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

I know right, I had to pick something hard to start with! It's making me pull my hair out figuring it out. ill try that out to upload some pics tonight


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

ok figured it out. here is my press dont know what kind it is but if anyone knows anything about it let me know please. like i mentioned before, when i tighten the screen it moves. thanks oh and dont pay attention to how how messy my room is


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

You should really rethink contracting the job out. You are way over your head.


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## thatjonjackson (Mar 25, 2011)

i started out with that same press. bought from a company called "homecashbiz" (WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN MY FIRST FREAKING CLUE) i hope you didn't spend as much on it as i did originally. i think we bought it for about 4,000 with a conveyor dryer and flash. and i ended up selling the press for $250 just to get it out of my way. unfortunately there is no way you can do micro registration with that press (or even close registration). it's just not made for it. i picked up a used workhorse machine for around $1,000 and the difference is night and day.

it would be better to get a one station / 4 color machine or one station / 6 color and get the registration right.

long story short, you can't do it with that machine. i know, i tried for about 2 years to fight with that crappy machine because i didn't know any better. 

fortunately my business is about half screen printing / half design work, so i wasn't fully relying on screening printing, or i would have been sunk.

i'm actually pretty impressed if you got the screens to burn well enough for process colors, that's a pretty big battle right there. so get a good press and you'll be going in no time.


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

thatjonjackson said:


> i started out with that same press. bought from a company called "homecashbiz" (WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN MY FIRST FREAKING CLUE) i hope you didn't spend as much on it as i did originally. i think we bought it for about 4,000 with a conveyor dryer and flash. and i ended up selling the press for $250 just to get it out of my way. unfortunately there is no way you can do micro registration with that press (or even close registration). it's just not made for it. i picked up a used workhorse machine for around $1,000 and the difference is night and day.
> 
> it would be better to get a one station / 4 color machine or one station / 6 color and get the registration right.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the heads up, I actually found the two knobs on the back to register it that i didnt know were there. But you are right its a freakin battle trying to get anything to.register on that machine. Thanks again, i will keep my eye out for a better press


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## thatjonjackson (Mar 25, 2011)

no problem. yes, those nobs are for "registering" but they don't hold the registration tightly enough unfortunately.


211chucky said:


> Thanks again, i will keep my eye out for a better press


What i did when i found my machine was to use searchtempest.com (used to be craigshelper.com) to search multiple cities craigslist postings. i found out first what brand machine i wanted to buy, then did a search for that brand and got lucky. i had to drive like 3 / 4 hours to pick it up, but if i had been using my local craigslist i never would have found it.

ALTERNATIVELY. use google reader or another RSS reader to subscribe to an rss feed for a search time, like "screen printer" or "screen printing machine" then you can be notified when somebody posts something that you're looking for.

Also, what emulssion / negatives / mesh count are you using that you got the simulated process screens to come out well? 

good luck.

that jon jackson


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## M3tees (Mar 28, 2011)

IVE COME ACROSS THIS SAME THING THIS WEEK! what i did is found the unit cost each shirt then marked the price up for those shirts and presented them to the church. My offer turned out to him as 800 dollars and i made a 248 dollar profit. Also the best thing to do when deal with organizations and churches or anyone is to tell them whats in it for them! Churches most likely will be selling the shirts you make for them to their congergation for an even hirer price per shirt. I told the pastor that a great idea would be to sell each shirt for 10 dollars and overall hed make 1,000 dollars from that. Subtract that from what he bought it from me for hed be making a 200 dollar profit to use for any church activities! it is always good to make it seem like a good deal in your buyers mind first before selling them the product. Now there whole youth group buys from my site m3tees.com


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