# All Hail the NEW Plastisol Transfer!



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

Since the MEGA thread "Plastisol Transfers" is becoming so long I decided to start a new one about a specific plastisol transfer that F&M Expressions (Welcome to fmexpressions.com) offer. I invite experiences of other cusomters and anyone who has found a process similiar to theirs. 

When I started up on T-shirt Forums I was in search of Lithographic transfers for a few of my designs. (Lithos were popular in the 70's for band shirts and mall kiosks. They allowed for full color reproduction fo art work onto a t-shirt transfer). I soon found that lithos are very expensive to produce and need to be ordered in quantities of 500 to 1000 min, which can be a lot if you are testing out a design or starting small company.

After calling to all the companies listed in the Plastisol Forum for samples, and after testing all the samples it came down to a process called "Freedom 3 to 300" from F&M Expressions. It is like ordering lithos but in much smaller quantities. The colors don't pop quite as much as with a regular plastisol transfer (for those I LOVED spot98's samples) or a real litho but the price and quality is unbeatable for what you are getting. I ganged up 5 new t-shirt designs on a 12.75" by 19" sheet for $2.68 per sheet, 144 quantity. The price is based on gang sheet size, not color. I used one of the designs to cover up a large batch of shirts that a former t-shirt printer botched up (they didn't put a white base down first... yes, sometimes you do need a while base).

The only down side is that if yo get up really really really close you can see what looks like ink jet printing, ie mixing of colors to product multiple shades. I talked to some people at F&M and they said they knew what i was referring to but assured me the process is still platisol based. When you run your finger over the printed image if feels like a nice thick layer of plastisol.

Considering that I got 5 prints from a sheet that cost $2.68 it is impossible to beat 50 cents per new design. 

It is also super stretchable. I pulled one of my test shirts so hard that the image only ripped where the shirt ripped. 

The only process similiar to this is one from imprintables.com. They use a vinyl printer/cutter which is equally as good, but the price is a little high. 

I will have pictures up in the next two days of my recent prints.


----------



## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks for the info! I'm interested in seeing the photos of the shirts when you get a chance to post them.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I got some of the same transfers from FMExpressions 



> The only down side is that if yo get up really really really close you can see what looks like ink jet printing, ie mixing of colors to product multiple shades. I talked to some people at F&M and they said they knew what i was referring to but assured me the process is still platisol based.


That's the part I didn't like about the transfers. I was expecting spot colors, but I got the "mixed" looking colors. 

Nathan said they can do spot colors as well, but the colors I selected just fell out of range. At the time I ordered, their art specs for the Freedom transfers wasn't very complete, but Nathan said they are working on including a more detailed art spec so future customers will have a better idea what to expect. They'll also be including a color chart of the 300 colors that they can do spot colors on.

Here's some closeup photos:

 

 

I still think they would work if you're going for the litho type look that Jon's talking about, but I opted to go for the regular spot color transfers for that design.

I do like that you can gang as many different images as you want on one sheet and the pricing is very good. I think once I see the spot color chart, I may try it again, depending on the design.


----------



## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks for the visuals, Rodney. I really want to have some Freedom transfers made, but for now I'll hold out for that color chart. Did he mention when it might be available?


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

Look for post of more pics tonight. Gonna get the ol' camera out.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

queerrep said:


> Thanks for the visuals, Rodney. I really want to have some Freedom transfers made, but for now I'll hold out for that color chart. Did he mention when it might be available?


He didn't say yet, as soon as I know,I'll post it here


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

Sorry gang, I promised a few days and that turned into a week. I've been busy busy trying to get out some new t-shirt designs. Below are a sampling, but more importantly they are sampling of the Freedom process from F&M Expressions.

I think the image speak for themselves. I got as close as i could to all the prints to try and show an pixilation type stuff in the images. As you can see there is a little but not much at all!

View attachment 1124


View attachment 1125


View attachment 1126


View attachment 1127


View attachment 1128


View attachment 1129


----------



## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

That doesn't look like the typical inkjet dots, but more like halftone dots Halftone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,which you find in 4 color process printing, which I am sure is similar to what they are doing with the screens.


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

prometheus said:


> That doesn't look like the typical inkjet dots, but more like halftone dots Halftone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,which you find in 4 color process printing, which I am sure is similar to what they are doing with the screens.


inkjet dots were just the easiest way to describe what people were witnessing. If you look at Rodney's post above you will see that the ones he had done were a lot more dotty. I talked to Nathan at F&M Expressions and they have resolved those issues. 

If you look at the closeup of the pirate hat in one of my images you will notice a lot less dottiness.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

JonWye said:


> inkjet dots were just the easiest way to describe what people were witnessing. If you look at Rodney's post above you will see that the ones he had done were a lot more dotty. I talked to Nathan at F&M Expressions and they have resolved those issues.
> 
> If you look at the closeup of the pirate hat in one of my images you will notice a lot less dottiness.


Yours look much better than mine turned out. Nice to hear that they are improving the process. I think it has some potential.

Thanks for posting the photos! I like the closeup shot of the dog. The fading from the dog's fur to the yellow background is nice.


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

Rodney said:


> Yours look much better than mine turned out. Nice to hear that they are improving the process. I think it has some potential.
> 
> Thanks for posting the photos! I like the closeup shot of the dog. The fading from the dog's fur to the yellow background is nice.


Yes, I was quite impressed with the fade myself. The ones I sent them I was sure would put the process to the limit. And the Abominable T-shirt design is actually part photograph. The fur bigfoot character is not draw in photoshop or illustrator, he is cut out of a photo of some fake fur. So i was really impressed that it turned out so well.

They have a telented crew over there


----------



## BlindSide (Oct 20, 2006)

i sent in an order with them, i guess i will see how it works out in the end but from what i have seem form them so far. im not worried.


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

BlindSide said:


> i sent in an order with them, i guess i will see how it works out in the end but from what i have seem form them so far. im not worried.


If you can, drop some photos to this thread. It would be nice to see what others are doing with this process.


----------



## BlindSide (Oct 20, 2006)

ya forsure as soon as i get them in i will add a few pictures.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I think the transfers look fine. I would like to know if they look and feel like a regular hot-split or hot peel plastisol transfer. I dont want anything glossy and I have read they are comparable to the old lithographic transfers or printed vinyl. I certainly dont want that rubber looking 70's thing or a big wad of printed vinyl on a shirt. Are they similar to simulated process plastisol transfers?


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

I think the great benefit with this type of transfer is that it emulates (sort of) the 4-color process plastisol transfer at a LOW volume order price point. 

A bonus alternative to the no-so durable digital bubble and lazer full color transfers for printing on whites only. 


:


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I think the transfers look fine. I would like to know if they look and feel like a regular hot-split or hot peel plastisol transfer. I dont want anything glossy and I have read they are comparable to the old lithographic transfers or printed vinyl. I certainly dont want that rubber looking 70's thing or a big wad of printed vinyl on a shirt. Are they similar to simulated process plastisol transfers?


Yes, it does have a rubbery or vinyl feel to it, but I think that is part of it's appeal, to bring back that 70s/80s litho look. And for the amount of colors you get plus the ability to do things like photos or gradations it is amazing.


----------



## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I certainly dont want that rubber looking 70's thing or a big wad of printed vinyl on a shirt.


I remeber having one of those. It was a Star Wars one. If I didn't wear it and wash it, it would probably be worth a lot now.


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

prometheus said:


> I remeber having one of those. It was a Star Wars one. If I didn't wear it and wash it, it would probably be worth a lot now.


 

any of The Rolling Stones transfers around ? 

you can't always get what you want....

i like that song.



:


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

I have one with Do Derek in a wet t-shirt from the Era of her perfect 10 movie... sooo nice  

Alas we can return to those days


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

JonWye said:


> I have one with Do Derek in a wet t-shirt from the Era of her perfect 10 movie... sooo nice


 
I honestly dont see it that way.  


btw Jon,


you know, you are one of best t-shirt graphic designers I've seen in a long time. 

...believe me, I see a lot of it.

If I had a million dollars(c)[the bare naked ladies] I would sign you up on the spot.  


keep up the good work.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Again...I dont want to re-live the sixties, seventies or any other crappy transfer movement. I am blown away that anyone wants to emulate that genre. I like retro to an extent but dont want to revisit that rubbery matt on a shirt. The transfers were crap and klled the whole reputation of transfers being quality apparel decoration . My opinion but I guess I need to order a few so I can actually see what is what. I am sure they must be of a higher quality than those old techniques and they are plastisol. I am hoping the comparison to the old lithos from the 70's is just language lost in translation.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

BlindSide said:


> i sent in an order with them, i guess i will see how it works out in the end but from what i have seem form them so far. im not worried.


Great to see a thread on the F&M Freedom Transfers.....EXCELLENT!!

I just sent them an order myself for a multi-colored design (5 or 6 colors) including a neon yellow for a softball.

I will post pics once I receive the job!!!


----------



## aamon17 (Jan 30, 2007)

Hello! I noticed the one pricing example in the 1st post. However, there's no pricing info on their site. If anyone has it, can you post it please? . . . I am very interested.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

aamon17 said:


> Hello! I noticed the one pricing example in the 1st post. However, there's no pricing info on their site. If anyone has it, can you post it please? . . . I am very interested.


You can contact zachellsworth or nathananderson for a price sheet.

Or, PM me and I can send you a copy of what they sent me...


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

aamon17 said:


> Hello! I noticed the one pricing example in the 1st post. However, there's no pricing info on their site. If anyone has it, can you post it please? . . . I am very interested.


It's best to contact the company directly to get their pricing, as they may not want it posted in public forums.

They don't make you jump through any hoops to get it...you just have to send them a quick email


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

T-BOT said:


> I honestly dont see it that way.
> 
> 
> btw Jon,
> ...


Hey T-bot, Thanks for the notes of enouragement. I've got a long way to go still  I have a few projects I will soon be sending the way of your company too... drop me a PM and I'll show and tell.


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

sure thing.

I would love to see it. (my PM is off  )....send me a link if you can via our site mail.

off to take my kid to karate now but will check on it later.


You should enter the t-forums t-design contest.


----------



## jimhack3 (Jan 23, 2007)

JonWye said:


> Sorry gang, I promised a few days and that turned into a week. I've been busy busy trying to get out some new t-shirt designs. Below are a sampling, but more importantly they are sampling of the Freedom process from F&M Expressions.
> 
> I think the image speak for themselves. I got as close as i could to all the prints to try and show an pixilation type stuff in the images. As you can see there is a little but not much at all!


Are all of the freedom 300 transfers that they produce in that rectangle box, like some of the pictures that you posted? I have some designs in different shapes. I'm thinking about ordering a few of those hot peel litho like transfers.

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

jimhack3 said:


> Are all of the freedom 300 transfers that they produce in that rectangle box, like some of the pictures that you posted? I have some designs in different shapes. I'm thinking about ordering a few of those hot peel litho like transfers.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim


No, they aren't all in a rectangle shape. The pictures I posted aren't in a rectangle shape. They are in whatever shape your graphic is in.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Are they all super glossy like my sample? Can they create them in a matt finish more like screenprint results?


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Are they all super glossy like my sample? Can they create them in a matt finish more like screenprint results?


I don't think they all have to be glossy. I think that might be due to the adhesive they put on the top.


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

I would just contact nathan at F&M, he is very helpful!


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I don't think they all have to be glossy. I think that might be due to the adhesive they put on the top.


Why would they put adheasive on the top? I am looking at the Freedom sample just like the one you printed with the color scale and the word Freedom. I like the color ability but would rather have them non glossy.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Why would they put adheasive on the top? I am looking at the Freedom sample just like the one you printed with the color scale and the word Freedom. I like the color ability but would rather have them non glossy.


The adhesive is to help it work on stretchable materials. 

Since it was a sample, and they didn't know what type of garment it would be going on, they made it with the adhesive "just in case"

If you contact Nathan at F&M, they can tell you exactly whether they can do matte finish with the freedom transfers.


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

To all of those experimenting with the freedom transfers or placing an order I have a suggestion on time and temp to help your transfers come out well.

F&M recommends medium preasure at 325 for about 7 seconds.

I found that HIGH preasure at 325 for about 20 seconds works a lot better. The extra preasure helps to really get the transfer into the weave of the t-shirt. It has helped to eliminate any edge feeling.


----------



## baumanb (Apr 8, 2007)

i assume that FM uses is combination of digital and screenprinting.

One of the technologies is described here:

Xeikon


to make it short, image is printed digitally with 4c. process inks, followed by screenprinted white and adhesive which changes according to substrate. Halftone is the only way to achieve it. But dots are too fine to be seen. FM or AM screening is possible, depending on the machine and RIP used to print image.

As for gloss, the transfer might be glossy, but you can reduce the glossy effect by overpressing it with either matte teflon sheet or matte transfer paper -screen printing transfer paper that is.

At least that is the process we use for the same results. But we are on another planet, Europe 


regards,
Boris


----------



## NathanAnderson (Feb 15, 2007)

It's been awhile so I thought I would give an update on the product and address a few of the questions on this thread.

1. The only digital element of the whole process is how the artwork is generated (Illustrator, Corel, etc.) The product is entirely screen printed using plastisol inks. We use a cmyk process-like method to achieve our range of color. 

2. Poly, Cotton, & 50/50 formula application is recommended at 50-60 psi (High or Firm Pressure) for 7 seconds and hot peeled. Nylon formula application is recommended at 50-60 psi (High to Firm Pressure) for 2 Seconds and hot peeled.

3. The new color pallet is very close to being released. It will be approximately 300 vibrant cymk generated colors. We have eliminated some of the shades that do not reproduce well with the Freedom Process. With around 300 colors you should be able to find the shade you need. This is not a product for Pantone (PMS) matching. We recommend spot colors transfers for those cases.


----------



## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Where's my price list Nathan!


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

baumanb said:


> i assume that FM uses is combination of digital and screenprinting.
> 
> One of the technologies is described here:
> 
> ...


Sign me up for the matte teflon sheet or the matte release paper, I havent seen either. Any links to these products?


----------



## NathanAnderson (Feb 15, 2007)

monkeylantern said:


> Where's my price list Nathan!


Send me your email address in a PM and I'll forward a price list. I don't want to violate any self promotion rules by posting it.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I think the transfers look fine. I would like to know if they look and feel like a regular hot-split or hot peel plastisol transfer. I dont want anything glossy and I have read they are comparable to the old lithographic transfers or printed vinyl. I certainly dont want that rubber looking 70's thing or a big wad of printed vinyl on a shirt. Are they similar to simulated process plastisol transfers?


Just finished two jobs using F&M Expressions transfers. One was all black (front & back) and the other was black front with a 4 color (Freedom) back (neon yellow, black, white & green). I was very impressed with the quality of the transfers. EVERY ONE of them peeled off like "butter" and only took 7 sec at 325 deg!! Not one transfer gave me any trouble out of 88 shirts (176 transfers)!!!

I wish I had thought to take some pictures...but I was under a tight timeline. I do have some extras so perhaps I can make a sample of each and take some pics.

The transfers had a nice feel to them and a matte finish.

I give them a big thumbs up!!! Nice job Nathan & Zach!!!


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Ran another job today using F&M Expressions Freedom process and once again they peeled "like butter" and were very consistent. Had a couple transfers with a defect in one of the letters (same spot) but had extras so not a big deal. Also had a few that had some small streaks of ink in the unprinted area but again...had some extras.

Overall...very impressed with the look, feel and consistency of these transfers. And, only 7 seconds per shirt....helps alot when you are doing 80+ shirts on a tight deadline!!! 

Finally, there is little to no ink left on the transfer paper when finsihed. The sheet peels away very easily.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

treadhead said:


> The transfers had a nice feel to them and a matte finish.


An update to my previous post...

I finished up a couple more jobs and noticed that a couple of the designs appeared to have more of a glossy look / feel to them than the previous. I used the same dwell & temp and think the pressure was similar but not really sure.

Just an observation, however, they looked great and performed nicely.

Maybe I will try the craft paper to see if that helps a bit.


----------



## thereiderfamily (May 9, 2007)

How do the freedom transfers wash? I read on another forum that they buckle (pucker). But, I thought if that were the case - a warm iron could be applied to the opposite side to help flatten it out.

John - are you still pressing them with the higher temperature and dwell time successfully without scorching? Does this help the hand? 

They seem pretty fool-proof to me with just a few issues. We are having a tough time getting consistent results with First Edition transfers - although I love the hand of their hot splits and double hot splits. 

Thanks!

Sara


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

thereiderfamily said:


> How do the freedom transfers wash? I read on another forum that they buckle (pucker). But, I thought if that were the case - a warm iron could be applied to the opposite side to help flatten it out.
> 
> John - are you still pressing them with the higher temperature and dwell time successfully without scorching? Does this help the hand?
> 
> ...


Sara..sorry for the delay. I just ran across this thread again...I guess I forgot about it!!

I haven't been able to reduce the gloss yet on some of them. Typically, the glossiness is more noticable on larger area designs. 

However, I would not recommend it for designs with large areas (i.e. like 10" diameter circles, etc.). We did a job that was a 10" diameter 6 color design that was very heavy, thick and plasticy feeling. It was horrible. Not knocking the transfers. Just realized a limit on there use.


----------



## thereiderfamily (May 9, 2007)

Thank you John! I have one sample of the Freedom that I cut in half and applied to a baby rib shirt. I repressed with craft paper over half of it and it did seem to reduce the glossiness a little. Love the durability....washed well and held up to normal stretch. You can even stretch the transfer itself and after washing and drying - it goes back to it's original shape. Can't beat the price for unlimited colors...only downside it the more vinyl-like feel. We used the settings you recommended - so I am not sure how it compares to FM's instructions. We only had one sample to play with.

Appreciate the input! 

Sara


----------



## thereiderfamily (May 9, 2007)

One more question for John or any other Freedom users. The sample we got (which was colored text FM logo) seems to have a clear outline around all the lettering. Like a clear bleed of the adhesive. Is this typical of the transfers you've had done of your own designs?

Thanks!

Sara


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

thereiderfamily said:


> One more question for John or any other Freedom users. The sample we got (which was colored text FM logo) seems to have a clear outline around all the lettering. Like a clear bleed of the adhesive. Is this typical of the transfers you've had done of your own designs?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sara


Not clear as to what you are referring to. Are you talking about after the transfer has been applied or before? I don't have the logo anymore to look at but didn't notice anything out of the ordinary once the transfer was applied to the shirt. They looked great...with the one exception noted.


----------



## mikeinbmore (Aug 6, 2006)

I've communicated with Zach several times and I'm *still *waiting on a package of samples. I'm really looking forward to checking out the Freedom product.
In the mean time, there were a few members in this thread who promised to upload some photos of their completed work with Freedom transfers. Can we still get those visuals up?


----------



## mikeinbmore (Aug 6, 2006)

Good afternoon all. I'm still waiting to receive samples and see those photos. Keeping hope alive over here.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

mikeinbmore said:


> Good afternoon all. I'm still waiting to receive samples and see those photos. Keeping hope alive over here.


There have been photos posted to this thread? Which specific photos are you looking for?


----------



## mikeinbmore (Aug 6, 2006)

Rodney said:


> There have been photos posted to this thread? Which specific photos are you looking for?


That would be these...



BlindSide said:


> i sent in an order with them, i guess i will see how it works out in the end but from what i have seem form them so far. im not worried.





JonWye said:


> If you can, drop some photos to this thread. It would be nice to see what others are doing with this process.





BlindSide said:


> ya forsure as soon as i get them in* i will add a few pictures*.





treadhead said:


> Great to see a thread on the F&M Freedom Transfers.....EXCELLENT!!
> 
> I just sent them an order myself for a multi-colored design (5 or 6 colors) including a neon yellow for a softball.
> 
> * I will post pics* once I receive the job!!!





treadhead said:


> Just finished two jobs using F&M Expressions transfers. One was all black (front & back) and the other was black front with a 4 color (Freedom) back (neon yellow, black, white & green). I was very impressed with the quality of the transfers. EVERY ONE of them peeled off like "butter" and only took 7 sec at 325 deg!! Not one transfer gave me any trouble out of 88 shirts (176 transfers)!!!
> 
> I wish I had thought to take some pictures...but I was under a tight timeline. I do have some extras so *perhaps I can make a sample of each and take some pics*.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikeinbmore (Aug 6, 2006)

Finally got my package of samples. I was crazy excited and couldn't wait to test them out. The next day I sparked up "ole hotty" and looked for a descent shirt (one of my reject extras) to test the transfers on. The package was well packed with different sizes, styles and instructions. All was going well until in my haste I pressed my first transfer (a freedom 4 color transfer) upside down and the image stuck to my teflon sheet. I'm glad I decided to use it. But the transfer peeled right off.
Next up I tried the two spot color piece. It was red and yellow. This one came out just fine. I was feeling really good so I went for the big colorful "church" transfer. I had a little trouble as part of the letter "e" was sticking to the transfer paper. I carefully laid it back down and hit it for a couple of seconds. Voila! 
They provided a little pirate type of transfer and it looked really tacky. The numberalls with the swimming pool image inside the letters really pops off of the shirt. They do have a rubbery feel and theres something I can't quite put my finger on about the transfers. I wouldnt consider them for any kind of high fashion prints, but for what I'm looking to do these will work just fine. Check out the pics and if you have any questions, shoot.
Thanks for taking care of me Zach! I'll be placing an order really soon.


http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4796.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4799.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4869.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4870.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4883.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4884.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4891.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4900.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4905.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4912.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4914.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/mikeinbmore/100_4920.jpg

Oh yeah, for every sample that FM provided, they included the same sample already pressed on to a piece of testing fabric. We used that stuff at the print shop I used to work at. Does anyone know where I can get that stuff from? It's has an almost felt feel to it and comes in black or white sheets. This saves a lot of aggravation and shirts when your just starting a job and trying to make sure everything is right.


----------



## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to do that, Mike. Those are very helpful ... especially the close-ups. My favorite is the transfer stuck to the Teflon sheet. *~*


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

mikeinbmore said:


> Oh yeah, for every sample that FM provided, they included the same sample already pressed on to a piece of testing fabric. We used that stuff at the print shop I used to work at. Does anyone know where I can get that stuff from? It's has an almost felt feel to it and comes in black or white sheets. This saves a lot of aggravation and shirts when your just starting a job and trying to make sure everything is right.


It is called pellon and I've seen it at screenprinting supply companies during some of my searches.


----------



## mikeinbmore (Aug 6, 2006)

treadhead said:


> It is called pellon and I've seen it at screenprinting supply companies during some of my searches.


Thanks John!


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Hey Mike...

Thanks for the reminder. I did promise some photos but have been buried...not complaining though. I've still got some of the older transfers around along with some recent jobs we've done. I think I will be able to do some pics this week.

Sorry for the delay....

John


----------



## Kiwi3806 (Mar 2, 2007)

Just curious,

When sending in your designs/artwork to these companies like F & M Expressions, etc., is there a need to worry about your designs/artwork being used by them or something?

Kiwi


----------



## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

I placed an order for the Freedom Transfers after I saw the samples in person at the Atlanta ISS Show.

I ordered 5 different XL sheets of designs and F&M had them in my hands within a week of placing the order.

They are super easy to use. I took John's suggestion and altered it – 20 seconds at 350º works better for me, but I think my press runs cooler than it should.

I did notice a flaw on one of the designs but I emailed my CSR and they sent out replacements and overnighted the very next day.

I used a Pantone Solid-to-Process swatch book to choose my colors. The colors were DEAD ON.

They *are* a little thicker/heavier/glossier than what I'm use to and they do add a couple of ounces onto the weight of the shirt, but the quality and the ease of use trump all of that as far as I'm concerned. And did I mention that the customer service is awesome?

I couldn't be happier. As soon as I convert all of my designs over to Freedom transfers I'll be throwing my Epson 1280 out the window.


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Hey all,
I got my goodies this week and also received my heatpress too. I'm a complete novice and have done my first 2 prints with mixed results. Firstly, the colours are great and it's a nice solution for someone working on a smaller budget. Anyhow, the couple of issues I've had in my first 2 which I am hoping you guys may be able to help me out with.

My first design I did the recommended 7 seconds at 325. The edges were lifting a little so I decided to repress for 5 seconds at 325. I tried again and the edges were still lifting a little so I decided to do 5 seconds and increased the temp to 350. The edges don't lift noticeably (still a a little) after increasing the temp. I do notice that there are some splotchy marks on the transfer. I'm not too sure if this was caused from increasing the temp too much, repressing too many times, touching the transfer with my fingers while it was still hot or something else? 

My 2nd design is also a large print. I decide to press for 12 seconds at 340. I can't remember but I MAY have touched the print as I was peeling (the design has some splotchiness on it just like the first. I'm thinking it is probably my fingers touching the print that is causing this). This designs has lettering as well. Parts of the transfer aren't peeling as easily as I thought. So I decide to repress the design. I had to do this a couple times again as some parts were being a little stubbon in peeling from the transfer. However as a result of repressing a few times, the middle of the design is a little bubbly.

My thoughts: I need to do it in one take. I can't touch the print as I am peeling. 

My questions:
- the designs are quite large, and as they are hot peel, is it possible to tear it off in one go? Some of the designs have letters etc so it isn't quite easy to peel in one go without the edges sticking up.

- there is a little bit of splotchiness on the prints. It kind of looks like fingerprints. Does that mean I can't touch the print at any point while I peel? I'm pretty sure the touching would be the explanation but if it is from overheating the transfer or something else then let me know.

- I am peeling pretty much as soon as I lift up the press. I assume this is correct? For a large print it isn't easy to peel off in one go due to the transfer cooling I am finding...

- What is the best solution when the edges are lifting? Should I re-press it or should I continue peeling the whole backing paper thing first and then re-press with a baking paper on top? Or should I use a house iron with baking paper on top to try to solve the edge problem or does that only reduce glossiness?

- I know some people prefer 20 secs at 350. Do others think this is the best solution for large designs, anything with sharp/straight edges or anything with symbols/letters etc? 


Any tips or answers would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Just a quick follow up. I've had a go at a 3rd design which was smaller and simpler. I went for 20 secs at 350 on this occasion. It does seem to stick better for the first part of the peeling process, but 2nd half the print didn't seem to leave the backing paper. So I slid the shirt further down the mat so I only had to reheat the part that was giving me trouble. I made sure not to touch the print with my fingers = no splotchiness. 

2 things I am trying to resolve:
- the print has a crater-like appearance (alot of dots etc). Is this normal or have I jacked up the temp too high? If that is the case then how can I ensure the print leaves the backing paper?

- part of the print you can see a transparent line on the edges. Is this normal or is this a result of overheating, not heating for a long enough time etc?

Also wiping down the transfer with a cloth towel seems to help peel a little better (especially considering how hot the mat can be when you try to do it by hand). Hopefully I can work out these small kinks or someone can help me out


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hi matt,

what type of transfers are they exactly ? can you describe them in detail ? this would help us try to figure out and fix the problem. The manufacturer would know best mind you.

transfers vary and so do their application.

Most of the time, the tansfer maker apply settings you receive are not too far off.

A common problem is the Heat Read. Sometimes the setting on a heat press reads 350F but the actual is 325F. The same with Home Iron's, the Cotton setting may be is way below of what it should be....so the transfers don't work. Just one of many things that play a part in a perfect application.


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Oops seeing this was a thread on the Freedom transfers I just assumed all discussion was on that. So yeah, they are Freedom transfers I am using. I did find that applying them for 20 secs seems to make the transfer melt into the shirt a little more like a screenprint. I am assuming it is possible to achieve something close to this (ie not being able to feel the edges that greatly). I might go for 10 secs and pat it down with a towel after I lift the press next time... Yeah the machine I got is quite decent so I'd say it is quite accurate. 

Do I need to peel the transfer off in a particular way? ie from corner to opposite corner? Because sometimes the print is still peeling away from the backing paper as I peel. Is this meant to happen or is the print meant to have completely removed itself and so when I peel the backing paper I don't have to be careful with the way I peel? At the moment I can see the print peeling from the paper as I peel hence why I have to be careful.... 

But if I am experiencing "dottiness" on the print do you think that is from applying the press for too long or too high a temp?


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

ok Matt, got it.
most transfer makers make various types of transfers w/different apply settings for such. I just wanted to make sure what type of transfer it was.

perhaps PM Nathan about this, he's a member here.
Unfortunatly I have yet to try the Freedom Transfers so can't help.

However, i do know that most plastisol Hot Peel transfers these days press-time is fairly quick 2-6 sec., on as a general observation yes, the longer the press-time the less opaque they become...also distort some. Du-no about the dots issue...

contact Nathan or Josh's brother at MF is your best bet.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Hey Matthew,

I've used the F&M Freedom transfers quite a bit and have always found them to "peel like butter" at 325 deg and 7 to 8 secs. Now, there have been rare occasions where the edges of lettering seems to not stick completely but a 2nd hit for about 5 secs does the trick. I think going for 20 seconds and using higher heat will cause issues for you.

I've noticed that if you re-press the transfer, you will get a more splotchy finish on the design and it will get glossier if you use a Teflon sheet. 

If you use parchment paper, the finish will remain more like a matt finish but, again, will appear more splotcchy than when you just peel off the backing paper.

Hope that helps.....

Zachellsworth or Nathananderson can answer any specific product / process questions. Both are members here and work for F&M.


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Ok I'll give the 8 secs at 325 a go again but I will wipe it down with the towel at the end. So even with lettering etc, as I peel the backing paper I shouldn't see it removing from the paper correct? At the moment as I peel away I can see the transfer coming off the backing paper. So I have to peel carefully and sometimes in a certain direction e.g with lettering or lines otherwise it doesn't seem to leave the backing paper.... Should this be happening? 


If the edges don't stick completely are you repressing the entire transfer or just the portion that poses a problem?

I am using some kind of baking paper. I don't want the transfer to feel too thick and I want the edges to feel as flat as possible. At the moment I can either see a transparent line along the edges or I can easily feel the edge of the transfer (does this mean it hasn't fastened itself to the shirt enough I wonder?). 

Yeah I'll probably get in touch with Courtney. She's been quite helpful.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Hey Matthew,

I don't see the image coming off the backing paper as I peel the transfer just as soon as I lift the press and remove the teflon sheet.

99.9% of the time the freedom transfers peel very nicely and leave little to no residue on the backing and presses nicely onto the shirt.

In the rare case that the edges are up a bit, I try to press just the area that is lifted a bit. As an example, this weekend we had a picture with a group of words above it that a couple designs didn't seem to adhere completely for some reason. I just stuck that part of the shirt back under the press and left the picture hanging out to avoid double pressing it.

It almost sounds like you are not getting enough heat for some reason. I've let the temperture drift about 15 to 20 deg too low before and the transfer started feeling like it had more resistance when I peeled it and didn't "stick" as well as usual.

Are you sure your press is getting to the proper temperature?


----------



## cbs1963 (May 31, 2007)

Hi Matthew, My experience has been that the time suggested is accurate, a few extra seconds probably won't matter. The temperature used could be a little higher than 325 to make sure that during a series of presses the platen temp does not drop to lower than 325. Also you might increase the pressure a little. Hope this helps.


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Ok I have only used the baking paper AFTER I have removed the backing paper. Are you saying I should put that on top of the backing paper instead? Yeah i have been seeing the transfer sticking onto the backing paper as I peel. So basically as I peel i have to do so carefully and in a certain direction to avoid more lifting. So by the sounds of what you say when I remove the paper there shouldn't be anything stuck to the paper as I am lifting a certain section? If that is the case I prob need to heat at a higher temp. Becos my 3rd design seemed a little dotted I wasn't sure if I need to increase heat. So the print should really feel like it is meshed with the shirt? Atm is feel like a distinct layer such as with iron on's. 

I will only repress in the problem areas (if there are problem spots) then. Yeah the press makes a sounds when it hits. I have tried 340 and 350... With a bigger print or letters etc it takes a little longer and hence been a little difficult to get down in time... I think I will try increasing pressure too. Time to work those biceps muscles on the clamp down haha


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Well I've had another go at a few other designs. I increased the pressure as far as the screw would allow me to.... I've been using between 334 - 340 temperature and been pressing for 12-15 seconds. 

The first one I tried had quite a few thin lines. I was able to peel half of the backing sheet off before it started to stick. I repressed the remainder for 7 seconds and was able to peel the rest off (I am still getting some clear edges on the outside of the colours. Is this the norm? It doesn't lift as much at least).

The 2nd one I tried I was able to do after 2 presses (first press 12 seconds, 2nd press 8 seconds).

The 3rd design I tried has alot of thin lines and alot of thin letters. I am having alot of trouble with this one. After repressing it the design is botched as alot of the letters and lines are crooked. This is because when I peel the backing paper I can still see the letters struggling to come off. I would have thought that pressing at highest pressure for 15 seconds at 338 would be enough?

Does anyone have some tips for fine lines/lettering? I guess I could try 20-25 secs or at a higher temp.... But it seems the designs with lettering/fine lines is causing me the most trouble....


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Hey Matthew,

Got any photos of what your experiencing? This may help us figure out what's going on. 

What your describing does not sound like my experience with F&M transfers at all. I feel like I'm missing something here....


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi John and everyone else... Hope these pics help out with the issues I'm having. I think increasing the temp to 340 is prob too hot.. It looks like there is some scroching.. Or that could be from repressing multiple times (something that I am finding hard to avoid when it doesn't peel easily... A catch 22). Anyhow, I've have posted my pics below and hopefully you guys can help me out...

Ok first design (BJ1, BJ2, BJ3) was quite a large design. I had to repress this one a few times. As a result it is a little wrinkly in parts... I did medium pressure and 325. I think the edges need to stick down a little more on this one. In BJ3 you can see there is a transparent line along the card. This transparent bleed seems to be more likely to occur when the edges stick up.
Maybe not hot enough? 

Ok second design (FH1, FH2) was a square design. I did 8 secs at 325, medium pressure. Doesn't seem like enough of something because the edges are lifting significantly (F1). There is some splotch/wrinkle prob because I repressed a few times (F2).

My next design (H1) had thin lines. I had to repress this quite a few times and had to increase the temp (causing it to splotch but not so apparent due to the fine lines). If I peeled I didn't peel from the end of the line the line would lift.....

My next design (M1, M2) had fine lines and fine lettering. This design I had the most trouble with. I did 15 secs at high pressure and 340. Many of the lines started to twist as I peeled (I have mentioned the issue I am having with the design sticking to the paper often). As a result of repressing due the transfer not coming off, some parts are crooked (M1). Many of the letters aren't completely stuck to the shirt (M2).

My next design (V1) is probably my most successful result. There are some fine lines on this (not as fine as on M1 design) and it is quite a large print. I had to repress this this twice as the 2nd part was being stubborn. I did high pressure at 340 for 15 secs. There is some splotch/oily factor... Is this the norm?

My final design (WH1) went pretty good as well. I had to repress twice (and you can kinda tell where there is a line in the middle...) for this as well... I did 340 on high at 15 secs. 

All my designs I am patting down with a towel for 5 secs after I lift the press. (It is too hot to do so with the hand lol). Should I not do this? Maybe it is eating into the "peel like butter" time? I also tried the 350 at high for 30 secs like some ppl endorsed but the design becomes VERY spotchy if I do that. Looked like a crater face although there was no edging lol. Not a good idea imo. 

I think I am getting close to utilising this great product to the desired result but I don't want to waste too many more designs... Once I can nut this out I can start on the launch hehe...

Hope this pics help! Any tips much appreciated.

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

love the whale design...so cute.


----------



## JonWye (Feb 13, 2007)

I must say it is quite wierd that you are having such significant edging problems. Even the times when I had to repress the print didn't come off that much... just a little in my case. 

After I started pressing really hard with higher temps I decided to give the manufacturers instructions one more go and it actually started working. One thing that helped for me was a 10 sec or so prepress of JUST the shirt to remove moisture. If you don't then the moisture under the vinylish transfer has no where to go... ie it is vinyl, not breathable.

See if a prepress of just the shirt helps!

-j


----------



## NathanAnderson (Feb 15, 2007)

Matthew,

I apologize for the application difficulties you are experiencing. I had the retains of your designs pulled (We run extras of each job and put them on file for cases like this). All of the designs applied at our facility came out perfect and we did not experience any of the problems you mentioned. If you can send me your number and a preferred time to be contacted in your time zone I will have a technician call you walk you through your problems to get your results to match ours. Our technicians are very good at replicating your problems and then working backward with you to calibrate your press for successful results. 

Speak to you soon.


----------



## cbs1963 (May 31, 2007)

This thread has reminded me of an old western. Just when it looked like the good guys were done...In charges the cavalry. Gotta love it!


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Matthew,

Thanks for the detailed pics and descriptions.

You mentioned that you rub the design with a towel for about 5 seconds before you peel. I've never done this with the F&M product. I just lift the press, remove the teflon sheet, and peel immediately. Perhaps you are letting it cool too much??

My procedure (like most I believe) is to pre-press the shirt for 5 to 10 seconds to remove the moisture from the garment. Then align the design on the shirt, cover with a teflon sheet (not everybody does this step) and press at 325 deg for 8 seconds. I then raise the press, remove the teflon sheet and peel immediately as stated above.

The beauty of the F&M product is that it is so easy (peels like butter) and consistent from batch to batch and from design to design within the same batch. That is why it is hard for me (us) to figure out what is going on with your process.  

I would stick to the recomended parameters and make sure that your the temperature of your press is correct.

Can you outline your procedure...step by step...for us?? From the time you first place the garment on the press all the way through when you peel off the backing sheet.

John


----------



## trendydag (Dec 14, 2006)

Yeah I'm thinking the patting down with the towel could be part of the problem.. I'm not sure why I started doing this. I can't remember if I read or saw someone patting it down with a towel/their hands and decided to try that when my first design didn't peel off easily... 

Ok this is the process I have mainly been using:

- Turn on machine and set heat to 340, high pressure
- Wrap shirt around the plate and mat
- Upon the heat reaching desired temp I press the shirt for 10 secs to remove any mouisture and creasing
- I place the sheet onto the shirt
- I press the shirt with as much force as possible for usually 12-15 secs
- I lift the press and rub it down with a towel for 5 secs
- I peel the backing paper as much as I can. If any of the design seems to stick to the paper or the design is being stubborn, I repress the portion of the transfer that is being stubborn for another 8 secs. I repeat this process till I can remove the entire transger.

My next one I will do for 12 secs at high pressure and 340. I will not rub down with a towel... I'll see how that goes for me


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Matthew,

Have you tried 325 deg for 8 seconds at medium pressure with no rubdown after pre-pressing?


----------



## paulo (Dec 13, 2006)

JonWye said:


> To all of those experimenting with the freedom transfers or placing an order I have a suggestion on time and temp to help your transfers come out well.
> 
> F&M recommends medium preasure at 325 for about 7 seconds.
> 
> I found that HIGH preasure at 325 for about 20 seconds works a lot better. The extra preasure helps to really get the transfer into the weave of the t-shirt. It has helped to eliminate any edge feeling.



Jon,

How is this working for you...

I am also having a problem with the edge feel on the FM Expressions trasnfer.

Thanks


----------



## aamon17 (Jan 30, 2007)

Yesterday I received my 1st order from FM Expressions for 60 sheets, 2-color custom pantone, 2-up on an XL sheet ganged. 

Customer Service was great: friendly, quick to respond to inquiries. My order arrived 1 day early, to my surprise. The custom pantone color was perfect! I immediately fired up the press to about 330 degrees & started pressing. In no time, i'd pressed 20+ shirts @ 10 seconds each, medium pressure. I threw in the extra 2 secs just because! Every one peeled easily. No ink left on the carrier.

I am 100% please with the results & WILL be ordering again! I'll try to post pics later.


----------



## oZPrez (Nov 20, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I think the transfers look fine. I would like to know if they look and feel like a regular hot-split or hot peel plastisol transfer. I dont want anything glossy and I have read they are comparable to the old lithographic transfers or printed vinyl. I certainly dont want that rubber looking 70's thing or a big wad of printed vinyl on a shirt. Are they similar to simulated process plastisol transfers?


YES they are totally glossy and have a super heavy hand. I tried making them for my customers and although they can do a high resolution they have problems.

My customers did not like them as they ride motorcycle and as such spend a lot of time in the sun. 

Kind of funny but my customers tell the they have a perfect outline of sweat where the design is. These transfers are so thick they are aweful to wear on a hot day.

That said I still order from them for designs with a lot of open area or fine detail


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

I would have hoped by now they would have found a way to softern the feel of these transfers. I loved them but steared away from them becaue of the feel....customers didn't like the feel even though they look great!


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I have yet to find a cmyk transfer that doesn't feel like a rubber sticker.


----------



## thereiderfamily (May 9, 2007)

Have you tried the new "fashion formula" FM makes for both Freedom and PMS colors? It's a lot thinner. Much more like a direct screen print.


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

No, wasn't even aware of it until now. Looks interesting.


----------

