# In Search Of: A Vinyl Cutter who is willing to run some tests



## supercilious (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi I work in apparel manufacturing.

I have trolled this sub forum (and the rest of the internet) for months looking for a solution for automated cutting of garment patterns. While this topic has been covered a few times, there has not been a conclusive method to approaching this, nor really a showing of the quality of results.

Eventually I would like to have the machine designed to bond carrier paper to fabric (this is much easier than cutting)
and cut rolls of apparel fabric of garment patterns.

Im in search of a someone with a quality vinyl cutter who would be willing to run material tests with their machine to properly test the feasibility and range of possible materials.

I would provide all materials, blades, files etc and could compensate you for your time.

Also. I would finally put this question to bed. There are a lot of people I know who have been looking for a solution like this who would be happy to have a conclusive resource.

Thanks


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## Twisted Grafix (Oct 5, 2016)

Your best route would be to laser cut or press cut the fabric instead of using a vinyl cutter. The pressures and movement of the blade and fabric will most likely bunch up the fabric and damage the cutting head or shuttle components. If the blade cuts correctly, the edges of the cuts will end up being frayed, not clean. I have a Summa S2 120 T-Series and a couple other brands (24"-48" sizes), but there is no way you'd want to pay the repair bill and lost wages reimbursement when it breaks the machine. Between repair costs and down time, that's most likely why no one is doing it with professional vinyl cutters. I know I wouldn't risk damaging any of my 4 cutters.

The Cricuit has an adhesive backed matt that may work for this, but I've never used one and don't know much about them, other than that the matt creates a flat bed instead of the roll to roll movement like the normal vinyl cutters and that size output is limited unless the file is tiled.

I can cut fabrics with my laser very quickly, but because of the sizes that need to be cut for shirt sizes, I would recommend a 4ft x 8ft flatbed CO2 laser. Standard lasers would produce more waste than needed because of the bed size. A fiber system will be overkill for just fabric. The laser heat will seal the edges of the cut and produce a clean line. Registration for job nesting can get down to very close tolerances with a vacuum table because the gantry and head are the only moving parts. Fabric layers can be limited to the overall thickness that the focal length is set to with the lens. Too thick of layers will cause inconsistent cut through, no cuts, charring, or possibly fire. With fabrics, there is always a chance that there will be burnt cuts. You will need a vacuum table to keep the fabric flat and keep the focal point along the same plane. The single layer t-shirt fabric can be cut very quickly with minimal power, so even as low as a 35 or 40 watt tube would be perfectly fine. 

If you're looking to keep the consistency on the cuts and speed up the output, there is a die and press machinery the big mills use that will cut through large stacks of fabric in a single pass and is MUCH cheaper than a laser & air filtration unit...safer too.


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## supercilious (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi Twisted--

Im aware of current options out there-- there are single ply cnc machines out there that are made for this job and that work quite well. Ive also worked with Laser Cutters in the past.

Really I am either committed to the form factor of a vinyl cutter or would give up the project as my use case requires 1) no operator and full automation 2) small footprint but wide cutting (cricut is way too small)

The current single ply cnc machines fulfill #1 but I am exploring alternatives to this to be used by garment samplers. Since this is not for production cutting but instead sampling, die cutting is also outside of my use case. 

I was hoping you could elaborate on your first claim-- that fabric would get bunched under the blade. 
Do you think this would be the case if the fabric was bonded to paper i.e. it would act like paper instead of fabric
What if using the proper blade and high pressure? 

In my estimation I believe it could work for light/midweight fabrics.

Thanks


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## Twisted Grafix (Oct 5, 2016)

The fabric itself wouldn't necessarily act like a vinyl film on a release liner since vinyl cutters are typically roll to roll. The front to back in-feed and out-feed motion with the pinch rollers would most likely start pushing and pulling the fabric loosening the adhesive. This happens a lot on rolls of chrome and metallized vinyl with lots of movement. This moves the film on the liner and creates a hump. Most of the time it's ok, but sometimes it causes incomplete cuts or poor cut registration. It all depends on the cutter and the pinch blade pressure. This would definitely catch the blade.

The fabric would also be thicker, so the blade depth would be deeper also. This may catch the fabric causing it to get hung up and drag the threads around the blade or blade holder. 60 degree blades would be better than the standard 36 or 45. 

Pressures work hand in hand with blade depth, angle, and speed.. Together can create decent or great cuts, but can also create headaches. On vinyl, too much depth or pressure and the blade can go through the liner or can just break the liner's first ply and separates onto the back of the vinyl. To cut diecut decals, we use the FlexCut settings and perforate the film and liner so it all tracks during the cut. When it's done, we just poke the decals through and throw away the excess media. Obviously, this won't work with fabrics because it has threads.

You'd definitely want to use a cutter with a drag knife. The main tangential blade spinning movement on the Summa T-Series will act like a fork wrapping pasta noodles around it real quick, so the drag knife mode would have to be used.

Would the adhesive be strong enough to properly hold the fabric, yet gentle enough not to tear the edges of the cuts? 

Maybe an option is to bond it to a little thicker, but still pliable/rollable liner (NON-PVC) with a stronger adhesive, buy a used cheap or low end cutter, buy a K40 laser, and change out the blade holder for the laser cutting head? These days anything can be made, especially with 3D printer access. The head would move left to right, the mirrors and tube would be fixed, and that could give you the width with the smaller footprint you're looking for. You'd use the K40's power supply for the tube, tube, cutter head, and optics. The vinyl cutter would still function as normal bringing in the media and moving the head left to right. The blade down and up would just control the laser fire and not fire functions. This would also allow you to precisely control the cutting depth and pressure without a chance of hanging up a blade, and ultimately give you a cleaner cut. Control panel buttons can use the pressure setting buttons to control power, or just use the dual panels to control each individually. The biggest hangup at that point would be making sure the fabric goes in & out without binding, skewing, or getting caught & tearing on something, and matching power with speed settings. That should open up the door for anything between 15"-72" for you.


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## supercilious (Sep 28, 2021)

Yeah so the techniques would be a bit different as the goal would be to actually cut through the fabric and the carrier. Instead of vinyl that could be peeled off the sheet, you would have individual pattern pieces fall out i.e. you could have the settings be kind of overkill for application.
I have also thought about doing a rotary knife, as this might mitigate all risks of jams (granted the fabric sticks to the medium)

Right now the plans for liner is a paper made for creating what are called markers for patternmaking. its a 60 wide semi sturdy matte paper that bonds pretty strongly to fabric. It doesnt leave residue, but has to be peeled off with a little bit of effort. Its not very delicate so with minimal handling I think it could handle the duration of the cutting.

While the laser idea is cool (and probably would work) I am not sure if im willing to go so mad scientist to make it happen. Also considering that leaving this unattended would be a great way to start a fire... Really I want something to work equivalently to a fax machine


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## Twisted Grafix (Oct 5, 2016)

Based on working like a fax machine, have you entertained the idea of a rotary drum as a die stamping pattern? It's pretty similar to your rotary knife idea. The drum would cut the fabric in a repeating nested pattern as the fabric rolls through it across a bottom plate after going through a laminator style setup to bond it to the liner first. The waste would re-roll and the pattern pieces could fall into a bin, set up like a rotogravure printer for newspapers, but on a much smaller scale. You would know the dimensions for fabric pieces better than I would for the cut & sew pattern, but to save on actual machine footprint and diameter of the drum, the sleeves and main body could be 2 separate dies.

Yeah, definitely would have to have a babysitter for the laser...lol. Unfortunately, I don't see it being too successful on a vinyl cutter.

In the end, I think the tried and true K.I.S.S. method may apply here. The simpler the better for reliability, clean cuts, and repeatability.


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## supercilious (Sep 28, 2021)

Ah I meant a fax machine in how people would use it… I.e you can just send an email with a dxf and it will cut.

really hoping to use existing hardware as well.
I think I’ll test with something cheap and post the results


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