# Does dye sublimation *have* to be on the polyester style tees?



## Rodney

I noticed a lot of dye sublimated t-shirts are printed on t-shirts with a polyester type outside layer (or microfiber layer).

Can dye sublimation be done on regular 100% cotton t-shirts or 50/50 t-shirts, or does it have to be on that special type of tee?


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## Adam

When dye sublimating, polyester t-shirts must be used because the dye bonds with the fibres in the polyester when heat is applied.

They make special t-shirts for this. Novachrome, and Xpres supply a good t-shirt. There is also the Hanes Soft L'ink but I don't really like these as much. I like the Novachrome Unisex White T-Shirt. Xpres make a great womens t-shirt, really nice plus the children's tees are great.

You can use 50/50 t-shirts but they aren't going to give the same results as you would get with a 100% poly tee because more dye is able to bond with the fibres.

There are sprays you can buy to spray onto the 50/50s so that the dye bonds. This will allow source more types of t-shirts, because waiting for the sublimation industry to produce different varietys of t-shirts is a long process. I've heard you can infact use a unscented hair spray instead of buying the spray.


Adam


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## toonsign

Hi Rodney,

Sublimation ink heat transfers work best on man made fiber such as polyester, nylon, satin, lycra, etc... It does *not* work on natural fibers such as cotton, wool, canvas, etc... When the sub transfer is heat pressed, it *will* show on any material (cotton, poly, canvas, lycra...), *HOWEVER*, if the heat transfer is on any man made fabric (cotton as an example), the image will wash out after the first and definately the second washing. It only works on man made fibers.

Currently there are some suppliers that do offer the poly/cotton garments where the poly fabric is on the outside of the garment and the cotton is on the inside. These shirts are a bit pricey...about $4.50+ for a white t-shirt. Many years ago, Xpres in NC sold a 65/35 blend t-shirts but felt very uncomfortable...$3.50 each.

For the commercial market (contractors, electricians, etc...) you can use 50/50 shirts with sub transfers but for years, I spray down a light mist of White Rain Unscented Hair Spray onto the shirt, place the sub transfer on it and then heat press as usual. The hair spray just gives the 50/50 material a little "extra" so the image will last longer. Eventually, the sub ink image will wash out of the cotton portion of the shirt, but not on the polyester fabric. Your image may look a little faded or washed out over time. I do NOT use 50/50 blend and sub transfers for my wholesaling. For 100% cotton, canvas, 50/50, etc... I use pigmented heat transfers. These transfers are made for 100% and other fabrics.

I tried the prep sprays and having miserable results with them years ago, now use the White Rain only. Mind you, this is ONLY for the commercial market. Do not use sub on 50/50 shirts for your onesie's or any retail type trade.

Hope this helped a bit.

Fred
http://www.uscolorprint.com


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## grumpster

Has any one ever tried using SofTee as a pretreatment sheet on a 50/50 or cotton shirt then applying the dye sub over that. I've read a number of places where you could do that as a two step process, but I've never heard how well it holds up (except from the people selling it). Supposedly, it applys a synthetic layer to the shirt that the dye sub can bond to.

Also worth note is that laser dye sub is supposed to work with 50/50 and cotton because the clc paper they use has the synthetic coating. According to what I've read, we can use the same sheets with inkjet dye sub in a two step process. Any one have any experience with any of this? Does it actually work and hold up with washing?

Does laser dye sub on 50/50 work better than ink jet? I know it's a bigger investment to get into, but it it works then I think it might be worth it.


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## binki

We tried using blank CLC pressed at 10 seconds and then the dye sub. This was on a grey 50/50 shirt. We didn't care for the results but the image was better. What we didn't like is the 'stain' from the CLC paper.


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## mystysue

I have an oki 5200 that i use for laser dye sub.
To print to 50/50 shirts with the dye sub toner I use Hottee Paper from ati transfers . It works great.. and it does not wash out.. If it is a logo or sumthing with bare areas aound it.. i do cut 1/4 to 1/8 inch around so that the polyester from the transfer paper does not leave a window.. It has little or no hand. When using other color Shirts besides white i can also use the regular release paper made for the dye sub laser and cotton trans spray.. This also holds up very well.. with little or no hand. I have found the washablity and colors on both of these to be great..


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## machine27

mystysue said:


> I have an oki 5200 that i use for laser dye sub.
> To print to 50/50 shirts with the dye sub toner I use Hottee Paper from ati transfers . It works great.. and it does not wash out.. If it is a logo or sumthing with bare areas aound it.. i do cut 1/4 to 1/8 inch around so that the polyester from the transfer paper does not leave a window.. It has little or no hand. When using other color Shirts besides white i can also use the regular release paper made for the dye sub laser and cotton trans spray.. This also holds up very well.. with little or no hand. I have found the washablity and colors on both of these to be great..


Hi, I have the same setup, but so far I'm not at all happy with the results.
I keep getting the grey window on whites. how many seconds and what
pressure do you use? what cotton trans spray-where do you get it?
I got some white stuff in a bottle from Al, for use with release paper. so far made things worse. In fact the release paper worked best without it.
thanks for your help. I'm using 50/50 white t-s.
jimmy


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## MotoskinGraphix

I would think that using transfer papers and synthetic substrates to allow application to 50/50 or 100% cotton shirts defeats the purpose of dye-sub. You might as well just use durabrite inks and the standard transfer papers....probably less expensive than dye-sub. The beauty of dye-sub printing is the transfer of only the ink to the shirt, no paper to trim, no paper actually transfers.

I would like to see a 50/50 shirt that has been dye-sub printed and washed a few times. I am wondering if it would give a vintage faded looking effect? A look similar to say water based printing inks or that discharge technique.


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## alex63

Hi David, I have tested dye sub on 50/50's. It has a faded vintage look. The reason obviously is that the ink is ony adhering to the 50% polyester of the shirt. It does adhere to the cotton but gets washed out or fades fairly quickly after a few washes. But for a quick vintage look it is not all that bad. If it designed properly with some distressed scratches and such and use those new distressed T's it might be a big seller.

I use an Epson 4000 with Artainium UV+ inks.

Alex


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## cprvh

I have a couple customers that are doing exactly that!! As you stated, the graphic needs to have some inclusions to give it the distressed look, otherwise it is just faded.


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## D.Evo.

I agree with Ron - unless you deliberately create your graphics with distressed feel, the design on 50/50 will look washed out and poor quality rather than vintage (my humble opinion). 
When printing full colour graphics I think it's better to stick with higher % of polyester.
I have posted some pictures to compare on this thread:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/need-help-finding-t-shirt/t4773.html


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## PT Studios

How does Cafe Press do it? They are dye-sub right? but they advertise their some of their shirts as 

"Our 100% cotton, women's long sleeve tee is preshrunk, durable and guaranteed. Constructed of mid-weight jersey, it's just the right weight for layering. Side seamed construction provides a perfect shape, for a contoured but loose fit."

What's up with that?


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## alex63

I think CP uses many different applications, but mainly DTG for shirts. Does any anyone know for sure?


Alex


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## Solmu

CP are not dye sub (for their t-shirts anyway - they might be for other items). They started with digital inkjet transfers, they now also offer DTG in addition to the transfers.


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## PT Studios

ic.. I was wondering.. cuz most of their shirts are white... I know they offer black.. but it looked mainly white.


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## Rodney

> How does Cafe Press do it? They are dye-sub right? but they advertise their some of their shirts as


Yes, CafePress uses a direct to garment machine from Kornit to print their dark shirts.

The coffee mugs, mousepads are printed with dye sublimation (I think). 

The white t-shirts are heat transfers or direct to garment printed (shopkeepers choice). They used to be only heat transfers (I think inkjet).


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## hhc11

When we trid to dye sub to 50/50 shirts, I was never satisfied with the results. They always looked dull compared to softlink shirts.

HHC11


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## xyko

alex63 said:


> Hi David, I have tested dye sub on 50/50's. It has a faded vintage look. The reason obviously is that the ink is ony adhering to the 50% polyester of the shirt. It does adhere to the cotton but gets washed out or fades fairly quickly after a few washes. But for a quick vintage look it is not all that bad. If it designed properly with some distressed scratches and such and use *those new distressed T's* it might be a big seller.




Who sells those? brand specific? or am I not searching for the right thing. You can pm me if you like.


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## jamestuj

Adam said:


> When dye sublimating, polyester t-shirts must be used because the dye bonds with the fibres in the polyester when heat is applied.
> 
> They make special t-shirts for this. Novachrome, and Xpres supply a good t-shirt. There is also the Hanes Soft L'ink but I don't really like these as much. I like the Novachrome Unisex White T-Shirt. Xpres make a great womens t-shirt, really nice plus the children's tees are great.
> 
> You can use 50/50 t-shirts but they aren't going to give the same results as you would get with a 100% poly tee because more dye is able to bond with the fibres.
> 
> There are sprays you can buy to spray onto the 50/50s so that the dye bonds. This will allow source more types of t-shirts, because waiting for the sublimation industry to produce different varietys of t-shirts is a long process. I've heard you can infact use a unscented hair spray instead of buying the spray.
> 
> 
> Adam


do you use hair spray for 100% cotton, to keep the image longer?


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## brad

try dura cotton. I got a sample and it looks great. Once I figure out the dye sub more I plan on trying it and seeing how it holds up. Like I said the sample I got looks great.


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## freebird1963

is chromablast not a "dye sublimation" for cotton ?
Now I am really confused. Thats the way is was explained at the show to me.
Or at least the way I took it.

I thought you needed the dye sub (artainium) for mugs/wood/tile and polyester shirts and to do cotton the chromablast.

Man I either gotta drink more or stop drinking cuz these learning headaches hurt.

Mark


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## ranarusi

I am very confused, too... Let me ask you guys something: If I want to print on 100% cutton - what would be the best way to go? Sublimation? Heat Transfer?


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## Rodney

ranarusi said:


> I am very confused, too... Let me ask you guys something: If I want to print on 100% cutton - what would be the best way to go? Sublimation? Heat Transfer?


Heat transfer will be the only one out of the two that will work on 100% cotton.

There are many types of heat transfers you can use though (inkjet or laster printed transfers), vinyl transfers, screen printed (plastisol) transfers, etc.


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## Solmu

To clear up something that may be causing some of the headaches: you can, under very limited circumstances, sublimate on cotton. Specifically there was one specific ink developed to work on white 100% cotton. It only works on white, it's significantly more expensive, and it's a new product. I don't know precisely how it works, but I can only assume that it has an inbuilt coating that bonds to the fibres, and that coating is sublimated (so it likely wouldn't be true sublimation in my opinion). Personally I don't think it even counts, but it does exist to help make things more confusing


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## rusty

May be a little off topic, but I noticed that the medical scrubs my wife wears are 65% polyester/35% cotton. Sounds like great candidates for a little experimenting!!! After I told her of my great idea, I can't seem to find any of her scrubs anymore. I think she hid them from me.... I'll find them! I'll try out some designs on the back and maybe she won't notice


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## PT Studios

My son has a Red Hot Chilli Peppers T-Shirt with a two color design on the front... It says it's 100% cotton on the tag. There is NO hand or very very very little... It is a white shirt... ???? any ideas as to what this is? Maybe the ink T-Bot was speaking of?


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## Solmu

PT Studios said:


> any ideas as to what this is?


Discharge screen printing most likely.


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## polomac

You can Sub on 100% cotton White T-Shirts. With no spray or other transfer product. Sawgrass ChormaBlast ink is for 100% cotton T-Shirt Sublimation.
They use a special ink and transfer paper and the results are great wash after wash.Now only if they would develop White sublimation ink to be used with the chromablast as a under coating for dark T-Shirts , it would open doors for more dark t- shirt orders.


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## rusty

I don't think ChromaBlast is Sublimation. It's its own unique animal. It's probably more similar to the inkjet transfers than sublimation (except a LOT more expensive than inkjet transfers). The white area around the design gets transferred to the shirt, but its supposed to wash out after a wash. And it's supposed to have a "soft hand", where as sublimation has no hand at all. It would be interesting for somebody to do a comparison between ChromaBlast and Iron-All.


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## freebird1963

rusty said:


> I don't think ChromaBlast is Sublimation. It's its own unique animal. It's probably more similar to the inkjet transfers than sublimation (except a LOT more expensive than inkjet transfers). The white area around the design gets transferred to the shirt, but its supposed to wash out after a wash. And it's supposed to have a "soft hand", where as sublimation has no hand at all. It would be interesting for somebody to do a comparison between ChromaBlast and Iron-All.


 
I am no expert in anyway on this stuff (yet) but at the ISS show as we walked around I was handling the dye sub shirts and the chromablast ones that were on display and I felt no hand on either. Maybe its being a newbie but was really impressed with the vibrant colors of the chromablast shirts we saw. I don't recall every thinking that one was better looking than the other or feeling softer. They both rocked me.
Just my newbie take tho.
Mark


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## rusty

I haven't seen one in person. I was just going by their own website where Chromablast says it has a "soft hand". So that's good news. I also wonder about the white area around the design. It says it washes out after the first wash. But you usually do not wash a shirt before giving it to the customer. I wonder if this will cause concern for some customers.


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## PT Studios

Check this out ChromaBlast especially if you're in Canada. I'd really love to hear from someone who has used this system. It sounds interesting but kinda expensive... $100 for 100 sheets! With dye-sub you can do other things.. mugs and stuff, but, this does cotton shirts which I really like... hmmm pros and cons I guess.


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## Rodney

PT Studios said:


> My son has a Red Hot Chilli Peppers T-Shirt with a two color design on the front... It says it's 100% cotton on the tag. There is NO hand or very very very little... It is a white shirt... ???? any ideas as to what this is? Maybe the ink T-Bot was speaking of?


screen printing regular plastisol inks on a white t-shirt can leave a very light hand since it doesn't require an extra white ink base to cover the shirt color.

It could also be water based ink screen printing.


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## trishtaz

PT Studios said:


> Check this out ChromaBlast especially if you're in Canada. I'd really love to hear from someone who has used this system. It sounds interesting but kinda expensive... $100 for 100 sheets! With dye-sub you can do other things.. mugs and stuff, but, this does cotton shirts which I really like... hmmm pros and cons I guess.


I haven't used the system itself so I can't attest to its ease of use, but as to the end product -- I picked up a sample at the ISS Fort Worth show and my husband has been wearing and washing it since October. It had a very vibrant print that washed out a fair amount in the first wash, but it has held its colors since the first wash. My thought was that if I used it, it would be for designs that are meant to look a little faded, and I would put on stickers or hangtags that said something like "Made to Fade". It isn't that dull, just compared to the original print it is.

The hand was almost nonexistent and is probably second only to the other sample I picked up at the show, one printed on the Brother DTG. I was really impressed but have not taken the plunge for the same reasons as you and probably many others -- the cost per print for both the paper and the ink and the white-only limitation.

Sawgrass does claim that it's like sublimation in that it doesn't rest on top of the fibers like plastisol or digital transfers, but bonds with the cotton fibers. I don't understand the chemical process well enough to know if this is a fair claim, though.


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## NoveltyStuff

Rodney said:


> screen printing regular plastisol inks on a white t-shirt can leave a very light hand since it doesn't require an extra white ink base to cover the shirt color.


But, if you can't use plastisol, because you are printing and transfering (on demand at event location), would the IronAll or Chromablast be best for photo images?

Sorry if that is a silly questions, still learning about it all. 

NS


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## Rodney

NoveltyStuff said:


> But, if you can't use plastisol, because you are printing and transfering (on demand at event location), would the IronAll or Chromablast be best for photo images?
> 
> Sorry if that is a silly questions, still learning about it all.
> 
> NS


Yep, for photo printed shirts on demand, an inkjet heat transfer or a color laser printer heat transfer would be better than plastisol. It's basically your only option in that case except for dye sub.


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## MotoskinGraphix

They would be the less expensive but dye-sub would give the best results.


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## paulo

MotoskinGraphix said:


> They would be the less expensive but dye-sub would give the best results.



David,

I took a look at some of your designs on the Tshirts. IMPRESSIVE. Do you guys do those with the sye-sub process you descirbed above.


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## jgrimes

I am new to the business of making t-shirts and uniforms and I could use some help! I print mainly soccer jersey's and they are more of a poly blend and the trouble I am having is that there seems to be a burn mark on every jersey I print. Some are more noticeable that others but I am not sure what to do, does any one have any suggestions?


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## rusty

jgrimes said:


> I am new to the business of making t-shirts and uniforms and I could use some help! I print mainly soccer jersey's and they are more of a poly blend and the trouble I am having is that there seems to be a burn mark on every jersey I print. Some are more noticeable that others but I am not sure what to do, does any one have any suggestions?


Some material is just not suitable for DyeSub because it cannot withstand 400 degrees temps. If it's truly a burn, then all you can do is try to lower the temp and/or dwell time and see if you can get an acceptable result without burning the material. It may not be possible.


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## grumpster

Some fabrics press better than others. Some of the looser knit ploys will flatten under the pressure of the press showing a "window" of your press. Tighter knits aren't as likely to be a problem. Also, you mentioned that your jerseys were a poly blend. If your press is running on the hot side, you could be burning the cotton part of your jersey or melting the poly. You might want to get some samples of different brands of jerseys and see what works best for you. 


I can't recommend enough getting a good quality pyrometer and checking the accuracy of your press temperature in several areas of the press temperature. Many pressed, especially the foreign ones aren't very accurate and often have hot spots. Don't try to use one of those infra red non contact heat guns. They won't give you accurate results. Get a real pyrometer for accurate results. 

You can get a pyrometer from knight among other places and it's well worth the investment. Once you know the accuracy of your press and if you have hot spots, you can begin the process of adjusting your temperature, pressure, and time.


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## mrdavid

Ok I know I will get it for this but you can do 50/50 and cotton now with new transfer paper from china here is pic


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## TShirtLady.BIZ

I thought this was so helpful ! White Rain !

For cotton ,are you using inkjet transfers ..laser,chromoblast or something else ?
Do you have favorite papers ? I am a direct printer ( Flexi Jet-L)...But do lots of sampling for a toy company on all types of materials ..am always looking for new ways ..Thanks !


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## tssandiego

I cannot find any wholesalers who offer 70/30 or 65/35 blends. Can anyone post a link to any such site, it would be greatly appreciated. 

I am also having trouble finding an online vendor with a functioning store that offers Vapor Performance shirts. I can only find the regular vapor shirts offered. Tho I can find plenty of descriptions of the Vapor performance material and it sounds pretty attractive. If only I could find some to buy.

Thanks


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## rusty

tssandiego said:


> I cannot find any wholesalers who offer 70/30 or 65/35 blends. Can anyone post a link to any such site, it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I am also having trouble finding an online vendor with a functioning store that offers Vapor Performance shirts. I can only find the regular vapor shirts offered. Tho I can find plenty of descriptions of the Vapor performance material and it sounds pretty attractive. If only I could find some to buy.
> 
> Thanks


I get all of my Vapor performance apparel from either The Paper Ranch or Conde. Both are good companies and sell the performance apparel on-line.


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## jamieleigh

imprints wholesale also sells the soft link shirts and some of their anvil shirts have the high poly content - i have used these for customers that want the light t shirt feel instead of the heavier softlink shirts - they are more costly than the vapor shirts you can get at conde.


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## koolkidsclothing

mrdavid said:


> Ok I know I will get it for this but you can do 50/50 and cotton now with new transfer paper from china here is pic


whered you get your transfers and if you have bulk id like to buy some?


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## Ice Titan

Can you use a gildan 50/50 for sublimation?


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## nayr

have anyone tried to use SOFTEX T-shirt using a sublimation paper for cotton and sublimation ink?
how does it works and what about the quality of print after few washes? i brought the sublimation paper from this site Sublimation Paper for Cotton


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## gravel

Over here in NZ we are seeing a big market trend with consumers towards sub dye tees-anyone else seeing that?


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## uncletee

jersey and gildan have some great polyester shirts now. vapor shirts are great, and we all miss softlink. love old old posts. good luck uncletee.


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