# Plastisol Transfers on Black Hats



## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

I've got a customer who wants a 3 color print on 144 five panel black hats that he supplies to me. He also wants to pay the same $2.50 each as he paid last year. I told him I could not match that price on a 3 color screen printed hat.

I've never used transfers so my question(s) are:

Will transfers work well on black hats?
Will the cost enable me to come close to $2.50 ea. assuming I'd like to profit ~ a buck a hat?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

You will need a hat press, but certainly you could do them. 

Because the imprint will be small, by ganging imultiple mages on each transfer sheet you should be able to meet your budget.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

Make sure you tell your transfer manufacturer that you're applying the transfers to black hats.


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## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

all this is hypothetical, but that being said.....
assuming your design is within a 3.5 by 4.5 area you should be able to get 9 per sheet ganged and the pricing should be around 6.00 per sheet as you would need at least 16 sheets to get the 144 you need
which would breakdown to .66 per transfer so you would need to purchase your hats for around .85 to
come close to the 1.00 profit margin your seeking...Frank


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## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

Thank you all.

Keeping in mind that I have not ventured down this path before, is it worth printing the transfers myself?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

If you have the capability of printing, why not just print directly on the caps? Eliminate the transfer stage altogether.


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## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

Read my first post.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Sparkie said:


> Read my first post.


I still don't get it.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Sparkie said:


> Read my first post.


I don't get it either, nothing in your OP necessitates using transfers.


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## FarmerLarry (Sep 11, 2009)

> I still don't get it.



The customer is supplying the hats to be printed on. 

Larry


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I think larry's costing(or price) for a 3 color screen printed hat is more than $2.50 so he is exploring the possibility of using heat transfers as a cheaper alternative.


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## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

My customer is providing 144 black hats. Last year he paid $2.50 per hat for a 3 color print. I can't match that price via direct screen printing onto hats so I thought I'd ask about the possibility of using transfers.

I then asked if it would be of any benefit for me to print the transfers myself rather than outsourcing. Since I've never done transfers before, I have no idea if I'd be saving time with transfers vs direct screening onto the hats. Less time = less cost.

The goal here is to be able to get a 3 color image onto these hats for no more than $2.50 ea.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Direct screen printing will always be faster and cheaper than plastisol transfers. Doing your own transfers means you are screen printing a 3 color job THEN applying those transfers with a heat press to the caps. Essentially doubling your production time. So if you can't do direct screen print within that price, you doubly can't do your own transfers at that price.

Why aren't you contracting this out to embroidery? Can easily be done within your $2.50 budget and the quality/perceived value is so, so much better.


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## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

Believe me, I ALWAYS suggest embroidery for most hat jobs that come my way. This guy doesn't want to pay ME more than $2.50 per hat.

My embroiderer will charge me $2.48 per hat, that leaves me with a whole $2.88 TOTAL PROFIT (.02 cents * 144), and that's assuming my embroiderer will waive digitizing fee.

Now if you know of an embroiderer who will do the job for me at $1.50 - $2.00 each and allow me to make a sensible profit, then I'm all ears.

My goal was to profit a buck each if I were to screen print these suckers. If I outsource/embroider them, then I can live with .50 cents profit each.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

I use fawn.com out of PA. Depending on stitch count, they could be as low as $1.50 each.


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## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks for the info Joe.

The client called back and said he needs to get these done and agreed to my price. I told him to call around and see who in the area will direct screen print 3 colors on a hat for $2.50. I even gave him the phone number for my competition down the street to see what they can do for him.

The problem with the embroidery is the very small text at the bottom of the logo. It's a wee bit over 1/8 inch high and my embroiderer requires just under 1/4 inch high text.

How many of you out there do direct screen priniting on hats?

How many colors can you print on hats?

Do you print over seams on hats?


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

You can print over seams on hats. You use soft platens with a canal under the seam together with 3D or high density inks, 3D emulsion/Capillary films, and low mesh count screens. I am not sure if a thick coat of plastisol underbase will be enough to v\cover the seams.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9mNaDvP7U0[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDbwQwQIo5Q&feature=related[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlYMX0ohm5A&feature=related[/media]


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## Sparkie (Nov 11, 2009)

I do have the special platen and I have had success using standard plastisol inks for seam printing on hats.

My original question was to get an idea of how many others here print multi-color hat jobs and how many will print on seams of hats.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

i agree with splathead. the way to go is with embroidery. just enlarge the size of the type to the 'just under' 1/4". what are you talking a 1/16th increase? and if your embroiderer wants your business they should do what it takes in your time of need.

i print plastisol transfers all the time. even though they're durable and can come out clean i wouldn't use them on a hat if i had the choice between them and embroidery. sure making a buck is great, but customer satisfaction and peace of mind go a long way too. besides you're outsourcing them and really not doing the work. i have a customer i outsource hats for that i do at cost just to get their other business. it pays off in the long run for me. 

make sure he realizes he's getting a deal, tell him to put out the good word about your business and just make up the profit from him in his next job (just make sure to tell him those prices aren't gonna be there next year).


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Embroidery per se is "better" for caps but is not always the best as in the case here where, according to the poster, the small text won't be given justice. 

Someone approached me a few months ago and asked if printing their logos on shirts with collar is feasible. They had samples embroidered and are not satisfied because the cracks in the skull is "ugly". I do not do high density prints but I think that is the best substitute for embroidery and advised them to explore that option. I later talked to someone who does and agreed that high density is the way to go if they need the details(the cracks) to show.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

don't agree. with the correct thread count anything can be done. how do you think woven labels are made? did patches last christmas for a client whose logo is a raven and has very distinct detailed wings on the bird........every detail was made with embroidery. now if you don't want to pay for the thread count, that's a different story.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Would you still happen to have an image of the raven? 

They brought the shirt with the embroidered chest logo together with the original design and the cracks in the skull are indeed terrible. Doesn't look like cracks at all. Now, I am not familiar with thread counts, although I know more is better and more expensive, and I am not really sure how embroidered shirts differs from woven labels, but what I was shown is said to be the "best" that the embroidery company can do.

I still sell chest and shoulder patches but has lots of them last year. Some are pretty detailed(Hong Kong) but still soem of the details don't look as good as printed ones. 

This is not the image but one I just googled. On my monitor, the actual image is about 60% of this one(below). 








This embroidery seems pretty detailed. What is the estimated number of stitches on this one? The embroidered image I saw has more or less the same "thread count" as this one but the embroidered cracks are more of constant width lines like this one rather than variable width cracks with tapered ends. Maybe it is OK without the tapered ends but I still, their embroidered cracks just didn't look good.


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## cleos (Sep 2, 2010)

I would go to embroidery and consider this job as advertising just to keep that customer for other products he might need in the future. So basically you're not investing any time or resources to provide the job. Now if I see there is no way to make money with this customer, I would probably loose the account but on the other side, you never know, he might have a friend who need 2000 tees and who has the right budget.


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