# Film output preferences?



## ChipShank (May 6, 2007)

Sorry guys, got one more for ya. LOL

I'm in the final phases of pulling together everything that I need to startup...and the whole film output topic has been (and still is) my major stumbling block up to this point.

What is the preference of people around here....cost vs. performance vs. ease of use?

I know that the Fast Rip/Epson combo is very popular, though I've gotten a slight sense that though it's cheaper up front (vs. laser printer), it's much more pricey per flim pos and more hassle in the longer run. The big pro though, is that it produces great film, w/great halftones and no distortion or registration problems at all.

The other main thought is a laser printer....A buddy that I print for, just picked up an Xante Screen Writer 4 and he loves it. It's much more money up front, but the film is cheaper and the toner cartridges generally last much longer than ink jet cartridges do. We used this same basic system at my last job and in general, it was a very simple low hassle method. Downside is that the heat from the laser printer can (and often does) slightly distort the film positives and the posisitve are not all that opaque. We always had to spray them with a clear coat & let them dry, to help with that.

What is everyone around here using & why?  

This is going to be my last major equipment investment I need to make, before I am officially "ready" to go...and it's got me blody well stumped! LOL

Thanks for any thoughts!

Don


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I have both a 14.5 and 12.5 thermal imagesetter and the epsonr1800 and Fast rip as a back up. My old Xante is now just a good black and white paper printer.

Spending a little more for less headache and better quality is always a plus.


----------



## ChipShank (May 6, 2007)

How much are we talking about for the thermal image setters?
I've honestly never done any price checking on those, since I figured that it would be way out of my "comfort zone". LOL

Thanks,
Don


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I beleive my 12.5 was around $6k about 5-6 years ago and my 14.5 was around $12-14k

Unless you do a lot of film output I wouldn't think about the thermal Imagesetters.


----------



## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Don, 

I think if you're just starting out, an inkjet would suit you just fine! I love mine. Never gives me trouble. I just use an old Epson 1520. Prints great halftones and very dense films. You can find them for about $100 too. I don't have FastRip either. There are other options out there. In fact, I use ghostscript which is FREE!

Really, I'd save that money for something else. You could get a good inkjet setup for $150-$300 and be printing fantastic films.


----------



## ChipShank (May 6, 2007)

neato said:


> Don,
> 
> I think if you're just starting out, an inkjet would suit you just fine! I love mine. Never gives me trouble. I just use an old Epson 1520. Prints great halftones and very dense films. You can find them for about $100 too. I don't have FastRip either. There are other options out there. In fact, I use ghostscript which is FREE!
> 
> Really, I'd save that money for something else. You could get a good inkjet setup for $150-$300 and be printing fantastic films.


 
Ok...ya got my attention with that one!  
What kind of film are you using for that & are there any special ink cartridges that you need for what you're talking about? Also how durable are the pos once they are printed?

That sounds like an excellent startup method, because actually there is quite a few other items that I could use that $ for, if I had it. LOL

Thanks for all the ideas guys!

Don


----------



## psi (May 11, 2007)

Hey ChipShank,

I use the PosJet and Epson 3000 combo...13 x 19 film works a treat. The standard Epson ink works great and has HUGE carts. PosJet supply their own ink which I have used as well. They claim it has UV blocking properties so makes better screens.

The PosJet ink seems to dry faster...with the Epson ink you can get little dots in the positive where the little feed wheels track...with the faster drying PosJet ink you don't seem to get them. These little tracks are simple to just block out with a pen though.

Posjet


----------



## KoalaTees (Jul 25, 2007)

Can someone tell me what film to use for a laser printer? I have one at work and I have been using 3-m transpancies for some basic stuff. But it is not the correct film. HELP!

Jeff


----------



## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

auto types delta laser film is pretty good. will need caseys unltrq black toner enhancement to dark it but it works. I used this with my Xante or years until upgrading to an imagesetter. 

I'm sure there are others out there


----------



## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

I need a printer for my shop. I have a cheap HP laser printer at home that I currently use, but occasional shrinkage is a nightmare. If I get an ink jet printer, can I use the vellum that I have now, which is for laser, with an ink jet? Or do I need to get film specifically for ink jet?


----------



## psi (May 11, 2007)

Nah you have to use the special inkjet film. It has a special coating on it that allows the ink to dry.

Posjet is the stuff I use. Google it but I think it is posjet.com

Thanks mate


----------



## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

Can you guys recommend an ink jet printer that's good for screen printing that's less than around $200 ?


----------



## KoalaTees (Jul 25, 2007)

Stuart, nice web site. I hope one day I can get into the business like that. I'm just starting out and working on a shoe string. It looks like you been doing this for a while. How are you printing positives now? Look at Epson R1800 used. But probably will be a bit more.


----------



## KoalaTees (Jul 25, 2007)

Richard. It was difficult to find an online supplier for Delta. Any suggestions. I got a tip to go to Poconos Screen. They have laser films and small qty that I may try.

Thanks againg.

Jeff


----------



## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

KoalaTees said:


> Stuart, nice web site. I hope one day I can get into the business like that. I'm just starting out and working on a shoe string. It looks like you been doing this for a while. How are you printing positives now? Look at Epson R1800 used. But probably will be a bit more.


Thank you for the site compliment :]

I've only been doing screen printing for a living for a year, and it's only been a decent living for the past half year. I'm hoping in the next half year it becomes a really good living. I started in a laundry room with a crummy 2-station 4-color table with no registration. Now I'm in a 1800 sq ft warehouse. The sky's the limit.

I'm printing film positives that I bought from ryan screen supply ryanrss.com with a HP laser jet 1810 that I got on newegg.com for like $100. I've had a couple incidents lately when I had to tape two legal size films to burn a large design, and one film had shrunk, so they didn't fit right. It's no good.
I'm getting a computer for the shop tomorrow and really need a good printer there. 

Newegg has that r1800 new for around $500. I don't think I'd feel secure buying a used printer that my business would rely on. Gotta make some more t-shirts before I can afford it, but thanks for the tip!


----------



## psi (May 11, 2007)

Brent,

I have both the r1800 and Stylus Colour 3000 from Epson. The r1800 doesn't print a dense enough film to use for film positives.

A Stylus Colour 3000 is definitely the best printer for the job if you are doing bigger than an A4 print. These are around $600 still though I think and they are usually quite old. Posjet sell refurb's for $800 I think. The Stylus Colour 1520 is also ok. The modern inkjets just don't seem to print a dense enough black.

Go the 3000 and you'll never look back!!


----------



## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

psi said:


> Brent,
> 
> I have both the r1800 and Stylus Colour 3000 from Epson. The r1800 doesn't print a dense enough film to use for film positives.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I found the 3000 on posjet's site. I would trust a refurb from there, but not one on ebay. Bookmarked the 3000, thanks for the info. 

I use a tone enhancer on my films. Is there such a spray for ink jet films, or is generally unneeded?


----------



## psi (May 11, 2007)

Not needed...the ink is dense enough already.


----------



## psi (May 11, 2007)

I actually got mine off eBay....I ended up having to replace the print heads on it. I am in Australia though so I couldn't get one sent from the guys at Posjet.

But in the end so much better than laser and so much more affordable than imagesetter.


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

psi said:


> The r1800 doesn't print a dense enough film to use for film positives.


True and False.

True if you use it with no RIP, false if you add a RIP. We use the R1800 for sending out samples and your jaw would drop at how dense the black is. On a budget of $200, this obviously isn't the route, but for an refurbished R1800 it's $350 through Epson with free shipping and $500 for the RIP.


----------



## cosmicjim (Sep 10, 2007)

is rip software?


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

cosmicjim said:


> is rip software?


Yes, it's programmable software that basically tells the printer how to print. Film RIP software is usually designed to interact with as little as possible. It's treated like a printer.

When you print, whatever program you print from, prints to a hot folder (by simply choosing the RIP when printing). The RIP watches the hot folder and whenever a postscript file enters that folder, it will process the file. 

Most of the time, you don't even realize all that's happening. You just print and go.


----------



## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

ImageIt said:


> While rip as an acronym for "raster image processor", it typically associated with a "postscript" rip. Postscript was a language created by adobe, but clone versions are now widely available and very good products. Ghostscript is a free postscript interpreter, which if used to drive a printer could be referred to as a rip.
> 
> Postscript has halftoning and image reading built into the language. With a remarkably few lines of code, a .jpg can be printed as a color image or as separations. Postscript also supports translation curves for color, which is essential to correct color.
> 
> ...


Yeah, what he said.......


----------



## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

The the dye ink, EPSON 3000 has the advantage of the Back Light Film 'media setting' the increases the ink deposit, something modern pigment printers like the R1800 don't have.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t26373-2.html#post157325


Without a RIP, the R1800 will only achieve 1.6? UV density.

The advantage to an EPSON RIP is that the programmer can increase the deposit of the 'variable size dots', something HP and Canon - and Postscript can't do.


----------



## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

I'm trying to get a good film output with my epson 3000 without a rip (I can't afford one). I'm printing from photoshop. Those of you that have a 3000 and use it without a rip, what settings do you use? I tried different settings and printed films and all of them were not very opaque at all, I don't think they would work well burning a screen. Then I set the printer to ink jet transparancies as well as in the print setup in photoshop, decreased the brightness to -25% and contrast to +25%, and the film is very dark but i guess it laid down too much ink because it bled and certain fine lines aren't there anymore because ink has filled them in from the heavy opaque areas.
What should I put as the settings? Are there free RIPs? The guy at PosJet said i could print good films without a RIP...


----------



## psi (May 11, 2007)

Hey Brent,

I only print from Illustrator but the settings I use are...

Media - Backlight Film
Black
Best Quality.

When you print using backlight film the driver automatically flips the image so you have to flip it first so that when the driver flips it it flips back to correct.


----------



## Squeegologist (Jan 25, 2010)

ChipShank said:


> Sorry guys, got one more for ya. LOL
> 
> I_'m in the final phases of pulling together everything that I need to startup...and the whole film output topic has been (and still is) my major stumbling block up to this point.
> 
> ...


----------

