# Epson 1400 Conversion to Dye Sublimation



## acmeprinting (Jun 4, 2007)

Hello everyone! Hope you guys had a great holiday.

I know this has been asked over and over. When I read posts to find my answer it seems to get clouded with everyone talking about what printers they use and ink tanks that I don't know what the actual answer is. I have never done dye sublimation EVER and want to get into it. I have an Epson 1400 that I want to convert after I found out this was possible. 

So far I know I need a CISS to pump the dye sublimation ink into the Epson 1400. Is this correct? If so where is the best place to get this extension from? Is there a particular brand of CISS for the Epson 1400? If I bought this, would it be the same, worse, better quality? Is if more of a problem to deal with as opposed to just buying a dye sublimation printer.

Thanks guys for reading this.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Six color printers are the more expensive to convert to anything. While you can (not necessarily will) get somewhat better colors for photographs on mugs and a few other things, by-in-large you need to spend 50% more on inks, because your printer takes light cyan and light magenta as well. And dye sub inks are more expensive to begin with.

If you're doing this to save money, it's usually cheaper in the long run to get a new 4-channel printer with sub dye inks.


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## mustangFWL (Feb 27, 2012)

I am actually in the same position as you are, I found a epson 1400 on CL for 60 bucks, and i went and bought my CIS from cobra ink for a bit more than 200.. 

I should have everything up and going by monday.. 

The CIS is the way to go from what I can tell (I also bought a system for my 1430 for my film positives) but the ink savings are crazy compared to buying a cartridge. 

Here is what I looked at...

Comparing SubliJet IQ ink prices to Cobra Inks High Temp ink.. 

From conde.. 15mL per carton, $88 per carton.. full set.. $582...

From Cobra Ink... 2oz bottles (59mL), set of 6 colors, 2oz per color.. $86 

It was a no brainier for me.. 

You could get 6- 17oz (502mL) bottles for $588 (33 cartridges worth per color)

So I do not agree what so ever with the statement made above me..


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I stand by my comments. The price of Sawgrass inks is irrelevant. You'll be buying 50% more ink for a 6-channel printer. A new 7010 costs about $200, with CISS already on it. After a couple of refills you're going to be feeling the extra cost in the two additional ink colors you need to buy each time.

As I said, unless you're specifically going after the slightly wider gamut of the 6-channel printer, it's a false economy to resurrect these old desktop printers for dye sub work. A new 4-channel printer costs less over time.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Not sure if it is the same in desktop as it is with wide format but we started wide format using a Epson 9800 - colors. 

When we switched to J-teck we went 4 colors with the other side basically shut off. 

There was no difference in the ink consumption in using 4 or 8 colors. The benefit was solely not having to purchase and stock 8 colors.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Not sure if it is the same in desktop as it is with wide format but we started wide format using a Epson 9800 - colors.
> 
> When we switched to J-teck we went 4 colors with the other side basically shut off.
> 
> *There was no difference in the ink consumption in using 4 or 8 colors*. The benefit was solely not having to purchase and stock 8 colors.


What about head cleaning ink consumption, 4 heads vs 6 vs 8? Actual printing of an image should be comparable in costs.

All things considered then 4 vs 6 is cheaper. 4 vs 8 is cheaper, 6 vs. 8 is cheaper.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mustangFWL said:


> I am actually in the same position as you are, I found a epson 1400 on CL for 60 bucks, and i went and bought my CIS from cobra ink for a bit more than 200..
> 
> I should have everything up and going by monday..
> 
> ...


Sawgrass _prefilled_ carts are always more expensive because they are not refillable (throwaway when done) so the cost per mL is nothing short of theft.

In the case of bulk inks in bottles, if you have _refillable_ carts or CIS then the inks costs come down to the price of the bulk inks = the same assuming you are buying from 1 vendor. Actually, refillable carts are cheaper to purchase initially than CIS.

If you bought 4 colors of _prefilled_ (not refillable) carts from Sawgrass then those would still be cheaper (initial purchase cost) than 6 colors of prefilled carts from Sawgrass.

If you bought 4 colors with CIS from Sawgrass then those would still be cheaper (initial purchase cost) than 6 colors with CIS from Sawgrass.

If you bought 4 colors of refillable carts from Cobra then those would still be cheaper (initial purchase cost) than 6 colors of refillable carts from Cobra.

If you bought 4 colors with CIS from Cobra then those would still be cheaper (initial purchase cost) than 6 colors with CIS from Cobra.

In any scenario Cobra vs. Sawgrass is cheaper. 

You need to compare apples to apples.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

On wide format: I believe the RIP is going to balance ink consumption better than it would on a desktop printer. I'm assuming your 9800 is driven from a RIP, and most RIPs are set up to have better ink management than what you get through the standard driver. 

I had an older six-channel Photo Stylus that went through ink like a drunken sailor. Maybe the difference isn't 50%, but it sure seemed like it went through the inks compared to the 7010s I now use. This is why when I purchased new printers for pigment and sub I got 4-channel models.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> On wide format: I believe the RIP is going to balance ink consumption better than it would on a desktop printer. I'm assuming your 9800 is driven from a RIP, and most RIPs are set up to have better ink management than what you get through the standard driver.
> 
> I had an older six-channel Photo Stylus that went through ink like a drunken sailor. Maybe the difference isn't 50%, but it sure seemed like it went through the inks compared to the 7010s I now use. This is why when I purchased new printers for pigment and sub I got 4-channel models.


On my 8 color 4880 with pigments and the standard driver my costs per print (averaged over a long period of time) are comparable to the WF1100 using pigments. But I do buy inks for the 4880 in larger bulk than for the 1100, so any printing cost adder from the 8 color 4880 is probably offset a little by buying the larger mL (and cheaper) bulk inks for the 4880.

In either case the pigment inks are only running me about 20 - 25 cents per full printed 8x10 page. So could be a little more cost on the 4880 if I bought in the same bulk quantity, but my inks costs are so low it might be the difference of a few cents per page.

I never used 6 color so I can't compare to that, except that with more printheads there is more waste for cleanings.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

GordonM said:


> On wide format: I believe the RIP is going to balance ink consumption better than it would on a desktop printer. I'm assuming your 9800 is driven from a RIP, and most RIPs are set up to have better ink management than what you get through the standard driver.


Yes we were using a RIP with the 9800 in both cases when we were using 8 colors and when we switched to 4 colors. The cool part about the wide format Epsons is you can run a ink useage report straight from the printer on the last 10 print jobs,

In our case when we compared exact same jobs on 4 colors and 8 colors the ink consumed was the same. One was just spread over 8 colors and the others over 4 colors.

As far as ink wasted from head cleans on 4 versus 8 colors the great thing is when you move to wide format head cleans virtually are eliminated by using a high quality ink. I am not sure the last time we even did a head clean. Another factor is we print at least 6 days a week.

The best advice we can give people when they contact us about this market is if you do not yet have the sales that leads to printing 3-4 times a week save yourself a lot of headaches and money by having someone like Dave create the prints for you.

When patents expire and desktops can purchase the J-Tecks and Inktecs of the world that may change.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Yes we were using a RIP with the 9800 in both cases when we were using 8 colors and when we switched to 4 colors. The cool part about the wide format Epsons is you can run a ink useage report straight from the printer on the last 10 print jobs,
> 
> In our case when we compared exact same jobs on 4 colors and 8 colors the ink consumed was the same. One was just spread over 8 colors and the others over 4 colors.
> 
> ...


The bad thing is that Epson makes you clean all of your printheads even if only 1 is clogged, would be nice if they setup selective printhead cleaning, but it's self serving $$$ that they don't. Makes no sense to me why I have to flush 7 other printheads when only one is banding ... but makes sense to Epson $$$.

Since you are printing 6 days a week you probably haven't run into it but Epson also does a head cleaning for you after x number of days automatically if you haven't printed in a while, whether you actually need one or not. 

The 4880 will do that about once a week even if I am printing all the time. Most people don't notice it as it happens right at the beginning of a print job. So the print job is delayed a little awaiting the head clean finish.

Most desktops Epson made did this up until the WF series models came out, I don't know about the latest WF models that came out this year, or the other "R" printers, but Epson is more than happy to use up your inks whether you need maintanance or not, or whether you need to clean only one head.


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