# newbie questions about direct to garment (DTG) printers



## siert (Mar 15, 2007)

Hi there, i am searching for info on DTG printers as i am looking for a way to speed up our tshirt business.
At the moment we do colour copier transfers which are ok but not long lasting, and we do vinyl plots but this is very time consuming.
So i looked on the internet hoping to find some kind of inkjet printer....and boy did i find them ...even white ink on black shirts.
So i contacted a dealer of an american printer.....but he wasn't even enthusiastic. He said heads clogged,tubes clogged ,it's messy and the quality isn't that good. I thought he didn't want to sell a printer. Only after I told him I was a copier technician for 17 years did he alter hs manner in which to sell me a machine.
So here are my questions;

Do the heads and tubes on these printers get clogged easily?
Do they all need a pre treatment before white ink can be printed?
What are the actual printing costs per tshirt on average?
Do the printers need special service or can this be done by yourself?
What is the average time to print per shirt including al the work you need to do?


These are only a few of my questions,
but i hope you guys out there can help me answer them.

thanks,

siert,
Holland


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## thinkworksdan (Mar 16, 2007)

siert,
I have the Mimaki GP604d. while expensive, I have found it to be very reliable. I did have to replace a printhead, but it was done under warranty and the new one works perfectly (so far.) I have to run head cleanings periodically, but no clogging to report. The mimaki doesn't do white ink, it does discharge, an entirely different process. for printing costs, I bill by time. impossible to say what average cost is, as some prints are big, some are small, some are 1 print per garment, some are four (or more..) I've had the tech here only once - to setup machine. I even did the head replacement myself (with tech on the phone.) average time depends entirely on the size of the print. mimaki's setup is unique in that the print area is 16" deep and 24" wide. I have special pallets that allow me to print two shirts at a time, as long as the print is no longer than 24" wide. I can tell you that a single shirt with a full size large print can take up to six minutes to print, if you're double-passing on the ink.


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## siert (Mar 15, 2007)

thanks Dan, but getting back to the clogging of heads or tubes.....our t-shirt business is mostly concentrated on thursdays and fridays. how will this effect these machines??? 
And what do you mean by its a discharge machine??? Do you need to pretreat your tshirts? 

Siert.


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## thinkworksdan (Mar 16, 2007)

I assume that you mean, "will I have clogging issues if I only print 1 or 2 days a week?" hard to say, I don't have my mimaki running five days a week by any means, and I don't have to do any extra work to keep the heads clean. However, I have yet to meet an inkjet printer that doesn't require at least SOME maintenance. Head cleanings are not difficult, and I spend a little extra time with my machine cleaning the outsides of the heads, to keep ink buildup to a minimum. 

I have heard that some of the lower-end machines have ink feeding troubles (air in the lines.) this is definetly a problem, you don't want your heads 'starving' for ink. the mimaki uses plastic 220 ml cartridges, very similar to those on large format epsons, for ink. I did have to replace dampers when I changed out the discharge head - these parts are extremely cheap ($15) compared to the head (about $625).

of all the printing processes out there, discharge is, I think, the most misunderstood. (least understood?) anyway, the process began in the screenprinting trade about 25 years ago. it has been adapted by Mimaki for a DTG printer and as far as I know, is still the only machine out there with this capability. discharge is a process for REMOVING THE DYE from a garment. IT IS NOT A WHITE INK SOLUTION. that being said, some very cool effects can be achieved by this means. it also only works with riber-reactive dyes. that means no synthetic dyes, so no 50/50s.. only 100% cotton for this process. No, you do not need to treat the shirts. You do, however, need to let your customers know that the discharge process uses a chemical called Zinc Formaldehyde Sulfoxylate. This chemical is diluted in a water solution, but it does contain formaldehyde, which is a carcinogen. garments that use this technique should be washed before wearing. I can also tell you that a by-product of the process is the creation of sulphur dioxide (rotten eggs), which is harmless, but doesn't smell good.


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## tomtv (Feb 6, 2007)

Seirt,

yes, you will have a much higher level of clogging if you are only printing a couple days a week. there are things that you can do to lessen the probability but you will be more apt to deal with clogging. There are many of us that feel the white ink printing has some major challenges.
1- a 12 x 12 inch print using a white base later, cmyk layer and highlight whites will cost you approx 5-6 usd plus the shirt cost, pretreatment and labor.
2- there is a fairly high failure rate on prints because of the pretreatment and clogging variables.
3- the white ink is the main reason for clogging so using it will raise the probability factor of clogging.
4- the time it takes to do that size print will really limit you to about 6-8 shirts an hour if you have a zero failure rate and you are efficient with your time.
5- the people have some success with pretreating are mostly doing multiple applications of pretreatment along with toweling down into the shirt, additional heat pressing & mixing distilled water combinations. 

so all this to say it is not impossible, but it is not easy by any means.

hope this helps you some,

tom


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

I gotta respond to some of Tom's assumptions here:

1- a 12 x 12 inch print using a white base later, cmyk layer and highlight whites will cost you approx 5-6 usd plus the shirt cost, pretreatment and labor. - actually this number is about double what we find based on typical coverage, the shark sample we use is 11.5" wide by about 15" tall and it takes about $2.50 in ink and another quarter in pre-treatment
2- there is a fairly high failure rate on prints because of the pretreatment and clogging variables. - I would put failure rates at about 7-10%, especially early on, if you do your routine maintenance and run a nozzle check every morning before printing you can greatly reduce the failure rate, consistency in pre-treatment is also critical
3- the white ink is the main reason for clogging so using it will raise the probability factor of clogging. - actually the main reason for clogging is lack of use, generally the further the ink has to travel from the bulk system to the printhead determines the clog rate from my experience, the further it travels, the more prone it is to have clogging issues
4- the time it takes to do that size print will really limit you to about 6-8 shirts an hour if you have a zero failure rate and you are efficient with your time. - 8 is a good estimate
5- the people have some success with pretreating are mostly doing multiple applications of pretreatment along with toweling down into the shirt, additional heat pressing & mixing distilled water combinations. - not sure where this witches brew came from, we spray on the pre-treatment, roll it in with a foam roller and then press it for 15-20 seconds and then print, distilled water is mixed in for lighter garments needing white ink (such as grays, pastels, reds etc.)

Is printing with white ink harder than printing without white ink - YES, is it impossible - NO. If you want/need to be able to address the OTHER HALF of the decorated garment marketplace, then the realities of white ink are the realities of white ink. Take your time, learn the process and you can be successful with white ink. Do not expect to get the printer at noon and be producing high quality dark shirts by dinner time. It does take practice, but, then again, what doesn't?

JMHO


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## tomtv (Feb 6, 2007)

don,

i am simply taking this info from a t-jet users posting on another forum. i have had limited experience in printing on both these machines so you may be correct. i also gathered some of this info from some of your posts on the same forum. not trying to be challenging to your statements here just observing some numbers from you and from other users.

the failure rates are much higher from just about every user i have ever spoken to and that is quite a few. printzilla is an owner he says that the beginning failure rate is more like 25% adn i would consider him to be a very, very high functioning user. once you get your techinique he feels 7% is more realistic.

i won't disagree with the lack of use thing but the largest percentage of users are not printing white ink every day. there are many, many people using the 7 color system that don't have near the non use clogging issue when not in use as the white ink machine owner experience.

my witches brew comes from people in that other forum talking about their techniques which they have gone into great detail about. Pink freud does his training by spraying water first, then sprays pretreatment, then wipes area with rag or sponge and then heatpresses. i say there is a lot of room in there for failure. t-jet even shows on their site that they spray water first then go on to other steps. i am sure there is more than one way to skin a cat or even print on one. then i might drop the cat into the witches brew! 

i agree completely with that it is not impossible, just know where near how many people sell it. That does not include you at all. you are the straightest guy in selling the kiosk/t-jet machine out there.

50% of the market is great if they are happy with what they are given, if not then is it really helping or serving that part of the market?

it is great to not see things the same way and be friends at the end of the day.

tom


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

Don-SWF East said:


> Take your time, learn the process and you can be successful with white ink. Do not expect to get the printer at noon and be producing high quality dark shirts by dinner time. It does take practice, but, then again, what doesn't?
> 
> JMHO


This is very true. Printing on light shirt is pretty much plug-and-play (for the most part). Printing on dark shirts take some fine tuning and understanding of the printer. But once you've figured it out, it is very rewarding. Printing a large job requires you to be on top of everything for it to go smoothly.


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## siert (Mar 15, 2007)

ok so white tshirt printing is easier than white printing on dark tshirts but can be mastered.
The total cost per tshirt especially white printing seems to be quite high !
Maintenance and regular printing should keep clogging at bay!
The ease and speed of manufacture i was hoping for isn't quite what i had hoped it would be.
If i take into account all of the above ...then i'm just not so enthousiastic any more....but then i havent seen an actual DTG print and I haven't a clue how well it withstands washing. 

The discharge question i placed above i guess it means you have some sort of way to remove the colour partially on a garment before you print on it?? but doesn't this influence the actual color youre trying to print, with each different colour of garment reacting to its dye removal in a different way? How do you have any clue to what colour you are going to end up with??

These printers certainly raise alot of questions...certainly seeing the response to this thread. 
I find it difficult to see if DTG printing would suit mee.
A thank you for all the replies so far.

Siert


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## thinkworksdan (Mar 16, 2007)

you are correct in assuming that the discharge is not an easy path to tread. An effective discharge returns the garment to it's original color before it was dyed. In most cases, this is natural cotton color, a light tan. But as you allude to, not all shirts discharge the same way, to the same degree. I've even heard stories of attempting to discharge black shirts, and subsequently finding out they were originally another color. (I guess if dye lots don't work out as hoped, they are often redyed into black.) So, yes, color matching is quite complicated with this process.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> The ease and speed of manufacture i was hoping for isn't quite what i had hoped it would be.


Please understand that if the process were incredibly easy and output were very inexpensive - EVERYONE WOULD HAVE ONE! You really need to determine what is most important in your business and then see which type of apparel decorating equipment fits your needs best.

Good Luck in your search!


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## siert (Mar 15, 2007)

I agree with that Don.
I'm just trying to look ahead to try and find a direction to steer my business into.
Íts just like I said at the beginning of this thread...the sales guy wasn't enthousiastic because he said DTG has a lot of problems....that was until i said I was a copier tech for 17 years !! this apperently made him think I was suddenly suited to operate one of these machines.
I'm really trying to find out the truth about these machines...and so far i now know its not easy but certainly not impossible to operate these machines. The speed i was looking for is perhaps only for white shirts. I certainly dont hear only NEGATIVE talk in all ofyour answers. Just caution perhaps.
I think I will visit the trade fair in germany to see the Tjet in action first hand as they say on their site that they will be there.
Thanks to all of you who replied.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Siert,

Not sure which trade show your are talking about in Germany, but if you can make it to the FESPA Show (Welcome to FESPA - FESPA - Promoting Screen Printing and Digital Imaging)...you will be able to see alot of the different direct-to-garment machines. It is in Berlin in early June. Hope this helps you.

Mark


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi Siert,

DTG will be exhibiting at FESPA as well. I hope to see you there.


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## siert (Mar 15, 2007)

Hi Don,
it is indeed the Fespa show in Berlin which I intend to visit.
So I hope to see the DTG printer in action !
Unfortunately it wil be the Saturday I will be attending which is probably a very busy time....but the only time I am able to get away from the shop.

See you there.

regards,
Siert.


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