# Why I won't do any more business with Conde



## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

Let me tell you why I will not do business with Conde anymore. Let's start from the beginning. Back in 2003, I worked for a screen printing company and watched dozens if not hundreds of orders walk right out the door because we would not print shirts with less than a 24 piece order and wondered how we could take on those orders (or at least I could get those orders passed on to me) and started doing some research on dye sublimation. After months of research and dozens of shot-down ideas by my boss, I decided it was my time to "do my own thing." 

During my research, I came across a company called Conde and spoke to a woman that was head of the sales department (no longer with the company) and she set me up with what at the time was the perfect system. I invested roughly $12,000 and bought an Epson 3000, a Geo Knight 16x20 swing-away press, tons of paper, two extra sets of ink ink and thousands of dollars worth of product to print on. Now, this was just my initial investment with the company. This does not count the hundreds of Hanes Softlink shirts I bought later in the year, which were roughly five bucks a piece. I would say within the first three years of being in the dye sub business, I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $20,000 with that company (Conde).

Of course, that paragraph is describing the first three years of time with Conde and they were more than helpful, helping me setup profiles, showing me how to unclog my printer heads, providing me with press times and other things I cannot think of right now.

My point to this is that I have spent more than enough with Conde for them to now just kick me to the curb and leave me high and dry.

Fast forward to today; I come in to the shop and have a problem with a non-related printer problem which required me to re-install the printer driver and in doing so, I accidentally deleted the printer for my GX-7000. So that means, I need to reinstall my driver and icc profile for that printer. So I call up my rep at Conde, who has been somewhat helpful over the past couple years (nowhere near my previous rep) and asked him if he could help me out and send me the driver again since I have bought every dye sub printer I own from the company he works for and he told me he could not do that because I have not bought ink from him since 2009. WTF!

I purchased my latest printer - a Ricoh GX7000 from Conde and within a year and half, it crapped out because of the Sawgrass ink that I purchased had a bad micro chip in it and fried the board of the printer. There are dozens of threads on this forum about the same problem people are still experiencing. 

Anyways, I contacted Conde about the problem and they pretty much told me I was screwed and needed to buy a new printer since I did not buy the extended warranty I was never offered in the first place. After finding other people on this forum with the same problem, David Gross (president of Conde) jumped in the forum and started somewhat remedying the problem by offering a free set of ink with a new printer purchase. Granted, it didn't fix my problem but if I absolutely had to buy a new printer, it was definitely a good start so that's what I did.

So back in late 2009, I bought this new Ricoh (the replacement) and it came with two sets of ink, one I bought and one that Conde and Sawgrass provided for me. Needless to say, I still have one black cartridge that came with the printer and don't need new ink although I did buy a set of inks a month or two ago from Johnson Plastics because I get all my deliveries in one day (ground shipping) verses four or five days from Conde. 

Fast forward to today (9/24/2012), I called my rep from Conde to get this profile that I accidentally deleted and he tells me because I haven't bought ink from him since 2009, he will not send me the profile and then goes on to tell me if I want to buy a new set of ink that he will gladly throw in the profile (talk about up-selling, you should be proud David). I told him that dye sublimation is not my main source of income (wide format solvent printing is) and I wasn't in need of spending $450 on ink that I didn't need. He said, "okay Matt, this is what I can do, pay $100 and I will send you the profile." I said this ridiculous, I have been a loyal customer to your company for ten years now, have spent thousands of dollars with your company and have bought all my dye sub equipment from you guys and now that I am in a bind, YOU DON'T CARE. "I'm sorry Matt, that's all I can do for you." I said okay and hung up.

My point to this whole story is watch out for companies like this, that are willing to bend over backwards to get your money and when you are left in a bind, they will leave you high and dry unless of course you are willing to pay to keep them interested (buy more product from them).

I have never felt so sickened by any company than the way I feel about Conde right now. I can tell you that I will not be buying anything from them in the future and will not recommend them to anyone that is looking to get into the dye sublimation printing industry.

I cannot tell you who to buy your ink, printers, supplies or whatever from but take it from me, a loyal Conde customer for the past ten years, that if they do this to me, they will do it to you too.


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

Lucky for me, I found a tutorial online on how to recover the printers that were deleted on my Apple. For anyone else that has accidentally deleted their printers on their mac and felt like they were STUCK, below is the answer to your problems...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2775350?start=0&tstart=0


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

I have personally learned that Conde has a large interest and market with Sawgrass Products. They get you sucked in on their high end systems that you can’t afford the ink to make any profit. Read my post on “Wasted Sawgrass Ink”. There are other vendors for ink for a fraction of the cost but you need to do your homework to avoid the Sawgrass monopoly. But for Blanks, I have used Best Blanks quite a bit. But Conde has one of the best support based library. Good support is hard to find. Good Luck


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

I know what you mean. Conde has always been helpful in the past, but as of lately, things have been different.

I remember back in the day when Tropical Graphics was around and started producing the Artainium Inks for a fraction of what the Sawgrass inks where going for and then the big lawsuit happened and put an end to all that. I wasn't aware that there were still companies around producing dye sub ink other than Sawgrass. Please enlighten me.

My whole issue with Conde was that I accidentally deleted my printer profile and they wanted me to pay $100 or buy a new set of inks in order to give me the profile. Is buying the printer (two actually) from them not good enough? So I bought ink from a local company? It's not my fault that the shipping takes four days to get from their facility to mine. I just cannot believe that they would make such a big deal about a printer profile (not driver, I'm on a mac and the sawgrass driver is not made for a mac). *I guess losing a loyal customer is not as important as making a few bucks.* What a joke.


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

I have started to migrate away from Conde for many reasons. But they do have the best tutorial support and wide range of products. (Brittany is always good to watch) Sorry Dave but good marketing.
There are several companies I shop with and the killer for me is shipping cost. Conde is the worst, based on your location, you need to look at this close. The one issue I have with Conde is the $150 minimum and shipping fees. 
If you want to work with Conde, ask for Meg. 
I do a variety of products and deal with many vendors depending on product. However, Unisub is all we got right now. But best vendors I have found are:
(Good*)
Best Blanks *
Tex Source
Valley Litho **
Johnson Plastic *
Blank Shirts.com *
Heat Press Nation **
Ryonet *** (best support and customer service) but Screen Print
Because of the B.S. Legal team Sawgrass feels they need to secure in order to maintain their sales, I wish not to disclose alternative providers over the internet. I don’t want to create controversy or loose a provider. Try to Google CIS Inks and you will find some providers. If not contact me direct at [email protected] and we can talk.
Sorry about your problem but I think Dave at Conde has is motive, SALES.
Physics and pigments should not be owned by corporations. If this was true, then I would incorporate Einstein and would own the rights to gravity. Sublimation is a chemical transportation between solid and vapor. Do the math. It’s physics not development of a product transformation not a copyright.
Beware, They will suck you in and suck you dry without YOUR profits to validate your investment.
I expect Dave at Conde to chime in. If so. Look at my account. Where has it gone? Not to Sawgrass..


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## league33 (Jun 30, 2012)

It is unfortunate that some companies can't do the math on what their actions today mean to their sales tomorrow (for $100, they need to let it go) Thank you for the warning about Conde.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

the color profiles are online. I downloaded them after I got a printer. it's on there partner. All. you have to do is register. I have WF7010. 

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## Hegemone (Oct 18, 2011)

If its on the web site for free then there are bigger ethical issues here then just being charged for the profile/driver. If I found a rep of mine doing this they would be out the door quicker then snot in a pollen storm. They would also be talking to my lawyer about the damage they did to my company's name. 

I have 0 experience with either party in this story but that last part set off fireworks for me.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

Check out laser production out of Illinois. 

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## Skidream37 (Mar 11, 2012)

jfisk3475 said:


> the color profiles are online. I downloaded them after I got a printer. it's on there partner. All. you have to do is register. I have WF7010.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


These are Epson Color Profiles other than the ones contained in the Epson Driver? Who is the "Partner"?
Thanks


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I am sorry for the issue.
Can you call me so I can understand and
make it right with you.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I was checking out the valley litho site, how would you find anything on there? that was a horrible site to navigate in my opinion (JMO) 

I love Conde and deal almost exclusively with them even though JP is just up the road about half an hour only because I love their customer service (David and Jessica are awesome) the only thing is some of their prices are higher than one place I found on a few things but then some are less than others, overall I love Conde and will continue to buy almost all my items there except for the notebooks because I can get them several dollars cheaper per book somewhere else. I am sure there is something they can do to help. They have always been helpful to me. Always kind in that southern voice maybe you just had a bad rep. Good luck


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

My issue is not necessarily with Conde the company (David is great and has gone out of his way to help me and I am more than grateful for that), it was more with my rep due to the fact that I already bought the printer from him (two actually) and was provided with the profile at one time.

My printers were accidentally deleted from my preferences and needed to set them up again. When I called my rep, he would not send me a copy of the profiles even though technically I already bought it. My point was that he was not willing to help me out unless I bought a new set of ink off him or pay him $100 for the profile, which really ticked me off.

That showed me that where his allegiance really was (making money, not helping customers).

David, I managed to recover my printer settings so I ended up not needing the profile after all, although I can appreciate the fact that you were willing to go out of your way to help me.

~ Matt


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

jfisk3475 said:


> the color profiles are online. I downloaded them after I got a printer. it's on there partner. All. you have to do is register. I have WF7010.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


The Ricoh profiles are not on there.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Call me in the morning, will take care of it.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

$100 for an ICC profile is rediculous - you could get a few custom made ones for yourself for that price, or put the money towards your own Munki/Spyder.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

To clarify, we provide profiles at no charge with a printer
and inks.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

I should have been more clear myself. they said they bought the printer there. that is why I posted that you have profiles online.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

Well I guess my icc profile is missing in photoshop. Any idea how I can get that back? I am using a mac vers. 10.5.8. i tried downloading the profile from sawgrass but during setup it gave me an error saying that the profile couldn't be installed on this computer. No idea why, it is the correct version and everything.


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## tsub67 (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't generally post about bad experiences with companies but since I found this thread I may as well share.

I have personally spent a lot of money with Conde. I purchased my Ricoh printer and most of my startup items from them.

I've found that they treat you very well at first, but, I get the impression that they are more worried about the big guys than the little ones which I consider bad business since some of the little guys will get big.

Anyway... Everything was great with them until I had an issue with a shipment that was 100% their fault. Actually, when you first contact them with an issue they are nice as pie. Then they seem to never contact you again and if you press the issue they get very rude and start blaming you for the problem.

I was so upset with the way I was treated on my last order that I swore I would never do business with them again which is kind of a shame since I would rather keep my supplier options open.

I've also found that they seem to be out of stock with at least a couple of items every time I order. Kind of a bad deal when you need to make their $100 minimums and try to save a bit on shipping.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Isn't that $100 minimum just for online credit card orders? I've run into that a few times, but was able to call Meg and get what I needed.


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## tsub67 (Jul 14, 2012)

I thought it was on all orders but I could be wrong. I've always been told by my rep that the minimum was $100.

How else would you pay online though? Do they accept Paypal? Doesn't matter much though, most of my orders are well over $100.

But... If they are out of one of the items you need and they ship the first part of the order you still have to pay shipping on the second one and their shipping seems to be quite a bit higher than most other suppliers I've dealt with. It all adds up to a much higher per-item cost.


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

When I run into that snag with the $100 online stuff I just call the next day and order the stuff over the phone.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

Not sure who you guys have as a rep but mine is Jessica and I have to say I have NEVER had an issue with them in all the time I have done business with them, as I stated before I normally use them instead of the company right up the road just because of their service. Best of luck to you all. Just wanted to say I have always been happy with them.


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## suzamac (Mar 18, 2008)

One supplier that no one has mentioned is JDS. They are mainly in the trophy supplies business but they have been growing their sublimation business. They have 10 warehouse around the country, one of which is here in my central California town. We did a lot of mugs and being able to drive to the warehouse to pick up mugs saves a fair amount in shipping. They sell printers and ink so it's all good. jdsindustries.com is their website which is kind of sucky but just another sublimation supplier to add to your list.


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## Eview1 (Apr 29, 2010)

What number PS are you using? that is where your profiles are. Look for the ColorSync utility to find all profiles they are part of the driver install. They are not located in Leopard profiles.





weprintdotorg said:


> Well I guess my icc profile is missing in photoshop. Any idea how I can get that back? I am using a mac vers. 10.5.8. i tried downloading the profile from sawgrass but during setup it gave me an error saying that the profile couldn't be installed on this computer. No idea why, it is the correct version and everything.


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## joemsewi (Aug 20, 2008)

I have been using LRI for over 5 years. LRI does its own coating and I have always had great service from them. My orders always ship the same day if I get them in before 1pm and I usually get delivery the next day using UPS Ground.

Charging double for profiles is extortion on the part of the supplier.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I am sorry for the confusion. If someone
buys their printer and inks from us, our icc 
profile is free.


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## jfisk3475 (Jan 28, 2011)

Not confused here. I love using Conde. Best service from Dereck. You have more people post bad service than good because they are mad. Not many people take the time to say good things anymore. Part of business that has gotten bad since the internet. They will post one line good and a novels worth for bad. Here is my novel size for Dave. I myself have never had a problem posting good things about businesses online. Conde is one. I stand behind you guys. 

Sent from my SGH-T679 using T-Shirt Forums


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

I've never had any problems ordering from Conde either. Meg is my rep and she's great.

I can understand the OP's frustration. I'd be more than just a little perturbed too. If I had spent that kind of money and was refused access to something I needed without paying more money I think I would do my fair share of complaining too.


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## Hegemone (Oct 18, 2011)

If people would like to share their positive experiences it would be better to do so in a new thread. Singing praise in this type of thread can dilute the information that the op put out there. This thread should focus on the op, the resolution, and the companies response. It should not turn into a place to defend one side or the other. Now if your positive experience with the vendor Is fundamentally the same as the op's negative experience then sharing that adds to the thread rather then diluting it with unrelated experiences. 

My two cents. Toss them in a well and make a wish.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

I believe there is a lesson for all of us in this thread. All companies make mistakes and what separates good from great is what you do after the mistake is made.

To get in a "pissing" match over something that cost nothing in exchange for all the negative press - is it worth it?

Most people appreciate a company going the extra mile and in most cases stand a good chance of gaining that business down the road.

Example - we used to buy J-Teck ink directly from J-Teck. When we had an issue they would refer us to Daniel at Digitally Driven who is a distributor of J-Teck ink. Daniel was always there for us, very professional, knowledgable and made zero for helping us out. He was not being compensated by J-Teck and never made a dime off us selling ink. After a couple experiences with Daniel I felt he earned our business and started buying ink from Daniel. Just a case of a guy helping someone out that had not sold a thing to us and earning our business.


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

I got everything straightened out, finally. Jeremy, a tech from Sawgrass helped me get everything set back up so thanks to Sawgrass for the excellent support.

Obviously, I will still order from Conde considering they are one of the biggest distributors in the industry but I am going to ask for my old rep back (Stefan) and if I can't get her, I will ask for Meg. Stefan was a great rep to me and helped me every way she could and how I got switched to someone else is beyond me.

Yeah, my whole point to this thread was that I already bought three dye sub printers (one epson and two ricohs) from Conde and was provided the profile at the time of purchase so technically even if they do sell the profile, I already bought it, twice actually.

I had a problem with my computer and managed to lose all my printer settings, icc profiles, drivers, etc. and when I contacted my rep, he said he couldn't help me because I have not bought ink from him in a long time although if I paid $100, he would send me the icc profile and driver. *That statement was what ticked me off*. I told him that I bought the printer from Conde and was provided with the profile at one time and didn't see the problem with sending it to me again; well, he did have a problem with it because of the ink situation.

I bought two sets of ink cartridges when I bought my last printer and just installed the last set about a month ago so I wasn't in the market for new cartridges yet. Dye sub is not my main source of income anymore so I don't use a lot of ink. To be honest, I might use a full set of ink over the course of 8 months or so.

Anyways, I'm not getting back into this story again, if you want to know the whole story, read the initial post. I'm just glad I'm back on track to dye subbing again. This has been two weeks of hell trying to get back on track but thanks to Sawgrass I am good to go.

For the record, I was not upset with Conde, the company, more so my rep who wasn't making anything easier for me who in turn left me with a bad taste in my mouth and left me with no choice but to rant about it.


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## weprintdotorg (Mar 31, 2011)

Eview1 said:


> What number PS are you using? that is where your profiles are. Look for the ColorSync utility to find all profiles they are part of the driver install. They are not located in Leopard profiles.


I found the profile but thank you anyways for your help.


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