# Use vinyl or outsource plastisol?



## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

Just got my first pretty big job. Need to make over 50 shirts that just are just 1 color and have "alien eyes" -- 2 black ovals -- and "Robbie's 6th Birthday" on it. I'm going to suggest doing the text as a sleeve print, or maybe around the collar (she had said to put it in a small font under the left "eye" but I think it's going to ruin the illusion of the alien eyes.)

My options are to cut vinyl for this or have plastisol transfers done. I know F&M offers cheap prices on plastisol transfers, but I've been reading so many threads on here about the plastisol cracking after being washed, that I am considering just cutting the vinyl, weeding and pressing them myself.

What are your recommendations?


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## dcbevins (Jul 31, 2011)

Fifty shirts is a job, but a doable job for HTV. The major difference is the weeding. It will take time to weed all that. Weeding also frustrates at times. I imagine that the cost of materials is lower for the HTV. This is offset by the weeding time. 

As to wear, vinyl generally will outlive the shirt, especially if washed inside out with cold water and not machine dried. But vinyl can peel. Usually the wrong temperature, hot or cold spots on the press, wrong press time or wrong pressure can cause the peeling. Sometimes if caught soon enough a peel can be pressed back on, or even ironed. Plastisol can vary based on formula. It can crack. A good formulation does better. The same pressing problems as vinyl can occur. It also does better if washed and dried the same way as above. I think vinyl probably stands up better, but not by a huge margin.

How much time you have to complete the job and the time of weeding should be the primary consideration. Secondary, (maybe primarily,) the cost of materials comes into play.

If you have a cutter and extra heat transfer vinyl on hand, it makes it quicker if they want a few more later, or to generate a replacement. You don't have to wait for the plastisol to show up.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I have a Cameo cutter and about a month to do the job. They're needed in December. Right now I'm working a full time job during the day, so I could realistically cut and weed at night during the week, and press them on the weekends to get them completed.

I just wasn't sure if it would be easier and faster to get the plastisol transfers made instead of doing all the cutting and weeding. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in the cost (maybe $10??) I read a lot of posts about plastisol cracking so I wasn't sure which was the better option and which would yield a longer life. I was going to use Transfer Express bc I think their product would yield more reliable results, but I could be wrong... 

Realistically, it's being used as a birthday party favor and will not likely be worn that frequently. Although maybe kids like having alien eyes on their shirt, LOL. I was thinking of pricing them at either $8 or $10 each whether I use plastisol or vinyl. My cost would be approximately $3.70 each...


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I am going to do a prototype in vinyl to check for sizing of the design and to show the client.


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## Vitality (Oct 5, 2014)

You've read that plastisol cracks when washed.. but its not like it cracks after 2-3 washes (unless that print company was shh). I have plastisol-transferred shirts I bought in '09 that still look good. They will last long enough for a kids party shirt, trust.

I mean 50 shirts in vinyl is doable but that would be probably time consuming with the weeding, cutting, placement and the whole nine. Personally I'd much rather buy the transfers. 1 color? It's a no brainer.

And try to get her to accept the text below and between the eyes (depending on the spacing), or on the sleeve, 

- Tony Vital


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

I would do vinyl over transfers. weeding just a alien's eye should be really easy and I mean easy. calculate which will cost you less to do. but seeing you have a cameo that will be a issue as us with 24" cutters pay cheap for our vinyl rolls. and we can get them in 15' and 20'. depending on the size of the eye we could do all the vinyl in a 1 yrd sheet.


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## Tyden (Aug 19, 2011)

I have done both plastisol transfers from F&M as well as vinyl with a cameo. I use vinyl when my customers want 1- 10 shirts. Anything above that I usually go with plastisol. You have to consider the time spent on weeding, and for 50 shirts you may be cutting into your profits. Also, Silhouette vinyl is not that cheap, that is why I use it to do very short runs. 

In regards to quality, both vinyl and plastisol transfers last a long time. I have used several companies for platisol and have had very little issues with cracking. I have done several shirts with the $.15 F&M and they have held up well with no cracking. As mentioned earlier, heat and pressure are critical. There are also other companies that do a really good job with transfers. 

For 50 shirts you would spend under 2.5 hours getting them completed and that includes design, placing the order, ordering t-shirts and pressing the designs. Vinyl will take you significantly longer. depending on the design you are looking at 5-6 hours or more. This is why a large order in vinyl with a Cameo will cut into your profit. You mentioned you have a month to complete the order. If you are getting other orders you may want to think about the time management aspect. good luck with this job. 

A


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## lgiglio1 (Sep 29, 2006)

For me, I wouldn't want to weed that much (even though each shirt wouldn't be a lot). 50 shirts would take some time. I would send it out. I used Howards for most of my stuff or Transfer Express and have not had any real issues at all. They are great!


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Melissa,

Time is money. The time weeding your vinyl, let alone the cost of the vinyl, will make this a job that is not very profitable. Order your transfers from F&M or Stahls. Both companies do a great job. Order 10 extra and build them into your pricing structure for the fifty shirts. That way, if you don't use them, they're paid for. if you do need a couple extra, than you'll be that much more profitable.


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## True Grit (Oct 19, 2015)

Good read, I have to be thankful tot he internet for forums, or I would be S.O.L. on so many things. I am also just starting out and have never used plastisol. Here is my dilemma, I am doing a rathe rlarge orde,and have decided to go with plastisol to do it but the image has seven different colors,and I am having trouble finding someone who will do it without costing an arm and a leg, I keep sending the image in for quotes, and I get the typical sales pitch about their quality etc, but get turned off by the variations in price. Another issue, is that the image was given to me in JPEG, and some of them require a vector file, going down the quote path again, I found a few that will do it, but the lowest is $40. I can recoup that in the price of the shirts, but how do I know that it was converted to a true Vector file type so that the plastisol vendor I choose will take it? Sorry for the long winded question here, but can anyone offer advice?


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Matt,

What do you consider a large order?
What color shirts?
How many locations are you printing on the garment?


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## lgiglio1 (Sep 29, 2006)

Steve at [email protected] does a great job with very reasonable prices for vector art. he can help you I am sure. He redid my logo for me after I my computer crashed and all I had left was a jpeg of it!


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I decided to take your advice about F&M, even though I see a lot of posts about cracking issues. I'm hoping they were just anomalies. In either case, I had designed the vector images (alien eyes) and the text (small alien with text next to it) in the Silhouette software. When I decided to do the transfers, I tried to copy it out -- no luck. Tried to save it or export it, but none of the file types required... To date I've been cutting vinyl and using JPSS, and honestly, I've been doing my layout in PowerPoint since I'm familiar with it, already have it on my PC and I've been working with mostly photos and text. Only thing close to Photoshop, AI or CD that I have is Photoshop Elements for photo editing. I re-created the design in PowerPoint last night, then saved it as a picture, opened that in Elements and then saved it as a PSD. Will that work?? I have no option to convert the text to curves or whatever... I'm jumping through hoops to get the darn order in! I could give any format to Transfer Express, but I think it would be a lot more money -- maybe $25 or more. Unfortunately, I will be losing my day job soon so no funds to buy those software packages. Do I use TE and lose a lot of my profit??? All suggestions are welcome.


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Melissa,

What are you charging you customer per shirt?
Have you given them a firm quote or an estimate?

If Transfer Express is $25.00 more for this order, that's only 50¢ per shirt, plus you say they will take whatever you give them for art and save you TIME trying to get the format that 
F & M wants. Someone once said "Time is Money." Maybe you can bill that 50¢ per shirt as artwork or include it if you haven't yet quoted firm.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

Yes, you're absolutely right. I'll will probably use TE bc of the file format issue -- I was just being greedy. Through F&M my order would've been $29, and I think it'll likely be twice that with TE, but at least I won't have the cutting and weeding.

I spoke with the client Saturday and showed her a prototype -- she loved it but winced when I told her $10 each. Being that she's also my daughter's dance teacher and studio owner, I said, "Let me see if I can do it for less..." And 2 hours later gave her the price of $9 each. With F&M's price I would be making a nice sum on this job, but I guess it'll still be easier than all that cutting and weeding...


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## chuckh (Mar 22, 2008)

Another option, for future reference, would be to find a trusted supplier that would screenprint these for you. There are a lot of printers like myself, that could offer you a quality product at a fair price with reasonably quick turnover.

Nothing wrong with taking an order and letting someone else do the work while you collect the money!!


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

chuckh said:


> Another option, for future reference, would be to find a trusted supplier that would screenprint these for you. There are a lot of printers like myself, that could offer you a quality product at a fair price with reasonably quick turnover.
> 
> Nothing wrong with taking an order and letting someone else do the work while you collect the money!!


And in what format would a screen printer like yourself need the design in? You know, it never ever occurred to me about that being an option... I guess I always think I have to be breaking my butt to make some cash... Ok, maybe I'm a control freak too... LOL. I'm curious as to what the charge per shirt might be for such a simplistic, one color design? I'm planning on using a Gildan 5000B neon green youth shirt.

FWIW, I have even considered learning how to screen print myself. I've watched many YouTube videos, bc it's fascinating -- I just don't think I'm ready for that quite yet! LOL!! 

BTW, if telling me what the per shirt charge would be, violates any rules of the forum, you can just PM me. Just trying to find out what viable options I might use in the future.


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## Tyden (Aug 19, 2011)

If you design is simple see if you can find someone that has illustrator and could convert it for you. For simple images illustrator has a live trace options that does a really good job in converting images to vector files. You can also go to fiverr.com and click on graphic design and vector tracing, you should be able to find some one that can convert it for you for just a few dollars. Fof F&M you need to upload the vector file and also a PDF file and I believe they require AI cs5 or older. 

Also, you may want to find you an older version of illustrator such as CS2 (Yes it works on windows 7 and 8), you can find them on e-bay for fairly cheap. This will help you with time and profitability in a great manner. When we started we did not have illustrator and like you our first few jobs were with JPSS and scissors. Talk about time consumption. Soon after I got illustrator and started designing customers logos with it and what a change. There is nothing like designing, sending to have the designs made and heat pressing for just a few second rather than 30 seconds like JPSS. it is the way to go for large runs. Don't get me wrong, I still use JPSS with my cutter for very small jobs and it can be quite profitable. Again, good luck.


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## True Grit (Oct 19, 2015)

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help.


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## True Grit (Oct 19, 2015)

I gotta give a shout out to gnizitigid, they took my graphic and made it to a vector file quickly, and it looks better than it did before I sent it to him. Thanks again to all for your help and advice as I get this process moving in the right direction.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

I also sent my design to gnizitigid and am very thankful for the help -- I didn't even have the software to really review the design, so I'm taking his word for it, LOL. Keeping his info handy going forward!


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## gnizitigid (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks! Please send me email if you face any problems!


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

Just wanted to update my thread... I sent my design to gnizitigid for vectorizing, and he sent back the file very quickly! Being a control freak, I had questions about the sizing of the design elements, and didn't want to bother him, so I downloaded Corel Draw x7 free trial. I opened the vectorized file he sent me, and tinkered with it a bit more. When I felt confident with it, i uploaded it to F&M. I called them the next day to ensure I had done everything right. All was good they said! Do you guys mirror the image before sending it, bc I forgot to do that, but I received the transfers a few days later and they were perfect. I pressed a test on a scrap shirt and then did one on the neon green shirts for my order -- it pressed perfectly!  I was afraid that maybe I didn't use enough pressure so I put parchment on top and re-pressed it another 7 seconds. Perfect!!

I am so happy I listened to the awesome advice I was given, and outsourced. Ordering the transfers cost me less than half of what vinyl would've cost, and sooooo much less work! I am looking forward to pressing the other 49 shirts! 

One quick question -- is it still essential to pre-press the shirts to remove moisture before pressing the shirt? I would like to heat tape the transfer on the shirt before putting it on the press to ensure the correct placement and that it's straight... I always press out the entire shirt; maybe I'll press them all out, put the transfers on and then press... What are your thoughts?? Here is a shot of the finished shirt. The alien eyes were the customers idea, BTW... Pic was shot from the side to avoid shadows.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

AngelicEndeavour said:


> One quick question -- is it still essential to pre-press the shirts to remove moisture before pressing the shirt?


Pre-pressing just prior to applying the transfer serves several purposes; removing moisture, creating a flat surface to apply to, and pre-heating the garment which helps the transfer to stick better.


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

Most dont know they need to mirrow the image to make a plastisol transfer so when you sent them the file they already have their printer settings set to mirrow. Takes all but 2 seconds


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

splathead said:


> Pre-pressing just prior to applying the transfer serves several purposes; removing moisture, creating a flat surface to apply to, and pre-heating the garment which helps the transfer to stick better.


Yes, of course. I do know that... I was just trying to figure out a way to "production line" it, LOL. Forgive me for thinking aloud. I'm actually so particular, that I press out the entire shirt, re-press the sleeve after the sleeve print is applied, etc. I'm CRAZY neat -- that's how you know I was just being silly... 😂


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

Well, the job is done... Sorta. I've pressed 50 shirts, the number that was ordered -- only thing was, instead of sending me 40 youth small, 5 youth medium and 5 youth large, my shirt supplier sent 45 youth small and 5 youth large! I called them today and I should have the mediums tomorrow -- but that DID screw me a bit, bc I had planned to deliver the entire order tomorrow. Giving the customer 50 shirts, yet having to tell them I'll have the other 5 medium tomorrow -- but you got an extra 5 small shirts out of the deal -- kinda sucks. I wanted to be done with this order early as I had planned. And yes, I'm gonna throw the extra shirts in for free -- the customer is not only a client, but she's also my daughter's dance teacher and studio owner, and I do like her a lot. It will also lead to more work in the future, so I think of the hour it took to do them as a lost leader, as well as a nice gesture. 😊


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

I would of keep the 5 xtra youth small as stock. Or throw a design on them and sold them.


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

That job i would of stuck with vinyl it would of cost $10 in material for that design and wedding would took about 30m . I could of got that done in 1yrd of vinyl. Also with f&m did you have to cut out the arm print. 
Also so you know as s reference for next time alien eyes are really just vector tree leaves.

The shirts look nice tho.


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## True Grit (Oct 19, 2015)

Steve does good, quick work when it comes to making an image a vector file. I recently ordered my first plastisol heat transfers, and I am hoping that all goes well once I get them. I did learn a valuable lesson though. Never use a highly detailed image when it comes to plastisol, it should seem like common sense, nut I missed the mark, and stay away from an image with a whole lot of colors. I would not go more than 6 just from my experience. I do have to say that Gulf Side Heat Transfers has been great in helping me through the process of my first order. They are great and very expedient and knowledgeable.


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

djque said:


> That job i would of stuck with vinyl it would of cost $10 in material for that design and wedding would took about 30m . I could of got that done in 1yrd of vinyl. Also with f&m did you have to cut out the arm print.
> Also so you know as s reference for next time alien eyes are really just vector tree leaves.
> 
> The shirts look nice tho.


Thanks! I did think about doing it on vinyl -- the alien eyes would be ridiculously easy to weed -- but the sleeve print would've taken some time -- lots of letters with areas inside to weed. Plus, I only have a 12" cutter, so it would've taken me 5 yards (4 sets of eyes per 1 sq ft) which was more costly than outsourcing it with plastisol. Not having to weed it was a pleasure too...


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## AngelicEndeavour (Aug 12, 2013)

True Grit said:


> Steve does good, quick work when it comes to making an image a vector file. I recently ordered my first plastisol heat transfers, and I am hoping that all goes well once I get them. I did learn a valuable lesson though. Never use a highly detailed image when it comes to plastisol, it should seem like common sense, nut I missed the mark, and stay away from an image with a whole lot of colors. I would not go more than 6 just from my experience. I do have to say that Gulf Side Heat Transfers has been great in helping me through the process of my first order. They are great and very expedient and knowledgeable.


Good advice! Thanks for that! I knew about using limited colors, but the amount of detail is good to know! This was a real learning experience, and I had no help from F&M (I didn't even call them prior to placing the order), but in the end, the transfers came out great, they were delivered quickly, and F&M followed up to see if I was happy with the transfers by both phone and email.

I need to buy the Student and Home version of CD and then learn it, but thankfully, I have Steve that can vectorize if needed going forward.  

The customer got the shirts yesterday and was THRILLED. She kept saying how AMAZING they were, so that made the whole experience positive. She was very happy to have the extra shirts too. I just didn't have any need for neon green kids shirts, anyway. I think giving them to her just builds my credibility and creates goodwill. I know she has had someone else doing her studio's dance clothing line, but after this, I'm sure she'll be throwing me more work. We're new to the studio and she's loved the few things I've created, so I know this is just the beginning.


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## True Grit (Oct 19, 2015)

Good to hear. I'm sorry to hear that F&M did not talk to you throughout the process. Gulf Side has been super helpful and call anytime they have a question for me about the image. Maybe keep them in mind for future endeavors,


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