# Help with Permaset WHITE inks



## VinSanity (Sep 15, 2008)

Because of helpful forum pros and overall satisfaction of using Permaset Aqua inks, I've decided to stick with WB instead of going Plastisol.

Now I need some help with choosing a permaset white ink. Im a bit confused as what to start with.

Supercover Print Paste - Huh? what is that?
Pearl White - Is this used as a underbase? Applications?
Standard White - ???
Supercover First Down White - obviously this is a base white, but can it be used as a all around textile white??
Supercover White - Ok.. whats the difference between this and the one above??
Transparent White - I assume this isnt very opaque.. so what to use it for?

Also, I've read that Permaset Aqua inks dont require an underbase white because it is very opaque.. So do I need to really worry about laying down a white underbase on dark shirts (especially black) at all?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Pearl white is just one of their shades of white ink.

Supercover white is heavily pigmented and does not require an underbase.

First down is their white underbase to use with flashing.

Transparent white is their mix ink for creating pastel colors.

Their paste comes in both supercover and standard and is used to mix your own colors.

The supercover is made to not require an underbase white, not their standard. Supercover costs about twice as much as the standard.


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## VinSanity (Sep 15, 2008)

Right on! Thanks a heap!


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## VinSanity (Sep 15, 2008)

VinSanity said:


> Also, I've read that Permaset Aqua inks dont require an underbase white because it is very opaque.. So do I need to really worry about laying down a white underbase on dark shirts (especially black) at all?


 
I assume the rest of the permaset supercover ink colors dont require a white base?


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## VinSanity (Sep 15, 2008)

Can the supercover white be used as a base white? I imagine yes


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## VinSanity (Sep 15, 2008)

What about mixing a grey? Can I mix supercover black with supercover white? Or would I have to use the supercover wite print paste?

I know, alot of amature questions here but I need to ake sure Im buying the right inks


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

VinSanity said:


> I assume the rest of the permaset supercover ink colors dont require a white base?


Correct



> Can the supercover white be used as a base white?


Their first down white is supercover, so why not?  



> What about mixing a grey? Can I mix supercover black with supercover white?


They carry process colors. Not sure about mixing otherwise, though. Don't see why it wouldn't work.

Have you been to their site? Permaset by Colormaker


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

VinSanity said:


> Supercover Print Paste - Huh? what is that?


It's pigmentless opaque base. Add pigment to it, and away you go.



VinSanity said:


> Pearl White - Is this used as a underbase? Applications?


Pearl as in pearlescent - kind of like a metallic lustre.



VinSanity said:


> Standard White - ???


Not sure. I would have said it's a transparent white, but that's listed separately. It could be an opaque white that just isn't very good 



VinSanity said:


> Transparent White - I assume this isnt very opaque.. so what to use it for?


Creating tints.



VinSanity said:


> So do I need to really worry about laying down a white underbase on dark shirts (especially black) at all?


It's a bit of an "experiment and see what results you get" situation, but I've seen good prints done with no underbase.

In regards to mixing... you can mix more or less anything with anything.


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## VinSanity (Sep 15, 2008)

thnaks guys


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## screenprinter1 (Jan 5, 2008)

Do they have any kind of Pantone matching formulas with this system?


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Unfortunately, not yet. I think it's coming in the future though.


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## AKBDL Print Co. (Jun 15, 2010)

All of permasets colors will require an underbase, if not they will still look good and bright and will withstand a wash test but they are not elastic and easily crack before and AFTER proper curing methods are used.... we initially thought the super cover green was bright and beautiful just by itself on a black t-shirt... but it needed an more elastic under coat, preferably the super cover white.... its very elastic and takes adheres well to other colors... we found out the hard way... beautiful prints that cracked easy under a base stretch test...ALWAYS USE A HIGHLY ELASTIC UNDERBASE... Pemasets supercover white works well es[ecially on hoodies and t's


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## AGR9 (Mar 2, 2011)

Have found this thread really useful, as am thinking of changing to permaset inks for my light on dark printing. One question though, what is the handle like on the supercover inks? I'm guessing that it is slightly thicker than standard water based inks, and that if a supercover is printed on a supercover white base it will presumably feel quite thick: Plastisol thick?


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## AKBDL Print Co. (Jun 15, 2010)

Permaset has perhaps the best white when it comes to H2O whites however since I posted that post we have switched over to Matsui Ink... for one major reason - it doesnt clog the screen almost never does compared to permaset.. we have printed many different H2O projects using both now and the Matsui does just as well. Cure we have found for matsui is 90-30-90.

we made and tested 20 swatches using higher temps up to 375 and down to 330 and used different pressures. 

the one that survived the wash and stretch test alone for the matsui RC301 opaque (matsui) was 

pressure: firm
press for 90 seconds
let moisture release for 30 seconds
press for an additional 90 seconds.

a bit longer than permasets 50 second cure using a heat press. but the printing process was soo much easier. 

once we narrowed down the propper cure time we made some more swatches - printed, cured and washed and dried on high for 40 min. beautiful. slightly heavier hand that a normal color waterbase(closer to a plastisol just not as thick) but your H2O clients will be very pleased.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

AKBDL Print Co. said:


> the one that survived the wash and stretch test alone for the matsui RC301 opaque (matsui) was
> 
> pressure: firm
> press for 90 seconds
> ...



Stewart, what temperature?


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## AKBDL Print Co. (Jun 15, 2010)

sorry, 338 was optimal.


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## TsandTotes (Jun 21, 2016)

Newbie printer here, and will try to explain using language I've read on hundreds of threads here--great advice--thank you!

I am working with water based and discharge inks. So far Permaset Aqua Supercover, Ryonet discharge, and Union waterbase. Have done some prints with each and trying to work out some kinks.

In these photos I used Permaset Aqua Supercover for opaque coverage.

I had 2 color print on multi-colored (see pic) and bright colored (yellow) background cotton tie-dyes from Port & Co. Same image as pictured on all.

3 main problems--mentor said to use white underbase, even though other forum member told me via private message I could get away without it.

Went with mentor because I had read on another thread that Permaset doesn't wash well without white underbase, so I used the white Supercover I had.

Order: white underbase, 35 seconds under flash, orangey gold-ish outline, purple letters. No flash except after white.

Emulsion is Kiwo Polycol Onecoat, 2:1.

All 3 screens were 160 mesh, thoroughly degreased and dried.

1) white underbase bled through orange layer; had to reflash and print down more orange on most shirts.

2) screens stuck, especially with purple. Had approx. 1/16" off contact on all screens--still working on whole off contact thing. Purple ink came very thick, probably should have added water ahead of time, but it arrived that way and I was ready to print. Guessing it was too thick. White flowed nicely out of container, as did the orange which I mixed from yellow and orange to match what customer wanted.

Caused misregistration on a few prints and blurred letters on one.

3) Purple had small white speckling showing through. Looks like glitter in pics, but it's white ink. Unfortunately hard to see in these small photos...

Posting to old thread which already addressed some of these issues, but not sure if answers apply.

Any advice would be much appreciated!


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

TsandTotes said:


> Newbie printer here, and will try to explain using language I've read on hundreds of threads here--great advice--thank you!
> 
> I am working with water based and discharge inks. So far Permaset Aqua Supercover, Ryonet discharge, and Union waterbase. Have done some prints with each and trying to work out some kinks.
> 
> ...



If the purple was Supercover, it did not need an underbase. Supercover IS thick, that's the point. Yes, one needs to add a bit of water after using ink and putting it back in the bucket since it loses water to the air and emulsion ... but don't go crazy with this. SC is THICK! Each SC color I've seen has a slightly different feel to it ... but my sense is that some of the stock (especially in smaller sizes) does not turn over very often so may be fairly old by the time it gets to you. So, yes, perhaps the purple was dryer than it should have been. Next time you use it, put some out in a separate container and mix it with some water until it feels more like the other SC colors.

How tight are your screens? The tighter your screens, the less off contact you can get away with. I use statics from GoldUp USA, they're a bit tighter than your average static.

160s work, but I prefer 200s and print/flash/printing until I get the coverage I want, though maybe 180 would be a better compromise 

Permaset flashes fairly quickly, at least compared to Green Galaxy. Flash it enough so it is not sticky, that's enough. 35 secs sounds long to me, but your flash setup may be different than mine. A little air moving over the garment after flashing helps cool it as well as dry the surface more. I sometimes wave a scrap of cardboard over a print if I'm not cycling them all the way around my 4-station press. Some people setup a small fan at the position past the flash unit.

It took me a while to get the hang of Supercover. Keeping the ink fresh/wet is one important key. As is print/flash/printing with a somewhat higher mesh count. Works for me. YMMV


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## TsandTotes (Jun 21, 2016)

Thank you! 

I will try reducing my off contact. 

The purple was significantly thicker than any color I've used before; I hadn't realized thickness could vary between colors. I added some water after I cleaned up.

I am not sure what static means, but I have gotten most of my screens from GoldUp. I have a couple of 180s and 200s, and can try those. They feel very tight, but I don't have much of a basis of comparison.

I will try lowering my flash unit and adding a fan. I was concerned the warm shirts would dry the paint in the screens when I hit them again, but I can see how adding a fan would help cool them.


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