# Film positives question



## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

Hey guys,

I'm looking to find a better way to make film positives. I have an epson photor200 printing 8.5x11 inkjet transparencies. if i stack two, it works great. i'd like to have to only print one, and i'm going to be getting an r1800 to print larger formats. i heard about vellum coated paper, not too many good things though. any ideas?


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## tman07 (Nov 14, 2007)

Using vellum with a laser printer is great for one color jobs or multicolor where registration is not so critical. Vellum does stretch because of the heat from the laser printer. Vellum is used by many because it is the least expensive way to output film. Exposure is a little longer with vellum. I have done photographic images with vellum and achieved good results.

I use the Epson 1800 for multicolor jobs that require good registration.


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## airraidapparel (Jul 6, 2007)

so if it requires tight registration, inkjet transparencies are the only option?


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

I agree. We use an HP LserJet 5100 for non registration critical jobs and us vellum on it. For jobs where registration is an issue or size we use an Epson 4800.


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## tman07 (Nov 14, 2007)

Drew, I wouldn't say it is the only option, for years I used vellum on tight registration jobs. I would trap the art some to allow for the shrinkage. I would also print a page, let the printer cool for about 10 minutes, then print again - that also helped reduce shrinkage. (You have got to plan ahead on that one because it can take some time to print out a multicolor job.)

Then with vellum you might have to cut and tape to get the different seps to match up. - ah, the good old days


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## Squirts (Feb 17, 2006)

tman07 said:


> Drew, I wouldn't say it is the only option, for years I used vellum on tight registration jobs. I would trap the art some to allow for the shrinkage. I would also print a page, let the printer cool for about 10 minutes, then print again - that also helped reduce shrinkage. (You have got to plan ahead on that one because it can take some time to print out a multicolor job.)
> 
> Then with vellum you might have to cut and tape to get the different seps to match up. - ah, the good old days


Are you Using Vellium or one of the polyester Laser films that look like vellium?
I use the Poly's with both our Samsung and Our HP Large format Printers and the shrinkage is minimual and pretty consistant so hasn't caused any difficulties with tight registration.... I Think the Brand I use is called Laser Max.... I Tried Vellium , a couple years ago, and couldn't get a Print near as Dark as the Poly's....


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## bamzurc (Nov 9, 2007)

excuse me for barging in...

does Vellium are just the same as an acetate films?


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## tman07 (Nov 14, 2007)

Vellum is basically a drafting paper. Some "brands" are better than others. I have tried the polyester film, and again, I assume some are better than others. Polyester film is slightly more expensive then vellum. 

Once you get good at laying out your art (using a little trap) you can use vellum or polyester film with satisfactory results- including doing halftones


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Vellum is a paper term for a textured _finish_. You need a transparent paper with a vellum finish so you can increase the toner deposit. 

It is rare to see toner deposit greater than 2.2 UV density and that is on the Xante ScreenWriter4 that is designed for positives. 

An office laser printer will rarely deposit more than 1.6 UV density.

Epson inkjets (ONLY Epson), can deliver greater than 3.5 UV density with a screen making RIP but they require coated FILM to absorb the waterbased Epson black ink.


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## bamzurc (Nov 9, 2007)

wow nice,... thanks for the infos


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## cvreeland (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm using an Epson Stylus Pro 4000 with Ulano's PowerRip software & roll film. I'm very happy with the density and registration. The longevity isn't as good as it was with my old Calcomp EcoPro thermal imager, but the software on it was outdated & I couldn't print from modern apps -- Illustrator 10 was as new as I could go, an that got to be a pain. PowerRip is working great with Quark 6, and all the Adobe CS3 apps.


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## scubadog (Jan 5, 2008)

I use an Epson R1800 with a CIS that I purchased on Ebay with Sceenprinters FilmPositive non waterproof film (much less expensive) and Screeners Choice Rip and love it. Thanks Jerid. I get very dark positives the only draw back is drying time. I sometime use a hair dryer to fast dry them.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

I would suggest an Epson R1800 with AccuRIP software and FastInks. You can get waterproof film from Davis International for $138 for 100 sheets. Do not get FastRIP, it sucks compared to other RIP's


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## Robert72 (Aug 12, 2006)

alan802 said:


> I would suggest an Epson R1800 with AccuRIP software and FastInks. You can get waterproof film from Davis International for $138 for 100 sheets. Do not get FastRIP, it sucks compared to other RIP's


Hi,
I use an Epson 4800 with Multirip and I'm very pleased with the results.
Actually, I use FastPositive waterproof film, but it's extremely overpriced in Europe. 

I just went to Davis International website and I think the prices are really good for the waterproof films. Tomorrow I'll try to buy from them, unless there's a place with similar prices here in Europe.


Also, I use pigment positive ink, altough last week I ran out of positive ink and put the Epson standard K3 cartrigde and it seems to work. I don't know if it's due to remaining positive ink in the tubes. I'll let you know next week.

Regards,
Robert.


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## oversizedfilm (Mar 18, 2008)

I used a laser printer and vellum for years. But after using ink jet I would never go back. Even with the best media you're going to get shrinkage. The 1800 is a good printer for most stuff. get a bulk ink system and fill the color with clear if you don't need them. the little cartridges get expensive quick. and once one goes they all tend to go. and it won't let you print if even one color is out. You'll need a RIP to do halftone work. I like Wasatch. they make an Epson edition for around $500. it works great.
Good luck!


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

alan802 said:


> I would suggest an Epson R1800 with AccuRIP software and FastInks. You can get waterproof film from Davis International for $138 for 100 sheets. Do not get FastRIP, it sucks compared to other RIP's


just wondering why fastrip sucks


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## adawg2252 (Dec 12, 2007)

I use an Epson 3000 with waterproof film and will NEVER even consider laser printers again.

Yes, inkjet will run you more money in the short run, but in the long run the amount of time you'll save, and the clarity and detail of your positives will be so much better that it will be worth it.

Unfortunately they don't make the 3000 anymore, it's closest counterpart is either the 3800 or the 4880. The R1800 is really nice, but it's only 13" wide (3000, 3800, 4880 are 17" wide).

I don't even use the RIP on my 3000 for seps anymore since I played with the settings on the printer. And I use generic ink!

If you're going the way of inkjet I recommend the 1800 (now R1900) unless you need the extra 4" width. Then I'd say 4880. 

Good luck


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

We were having problems with our film positives not being opaque enough and banding and were struggling to get our screens right so we started troubleshooting. We finally worked our way backwards to the rip and did a test this morning using the different programs and there was a big difference in the two pieces of film. 

After these findings I may or may not have been a little ticked and said a few negative things about the product and may have opened myself up to a little scrutiny, but I felt it necessary at the time. The fastrip works well for a lot of people, just not for us I guess. Maybe we are the only one with it that it hasn't worked great for, but the results were completely different with the only constant being changed was the rip. That led us to the conclusion that it sucks, which is a little harsh. It is just not as good as Accurip for our shop's needs.


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## oversizedfilm (Mar 18, 2008)

I second Alan802. I've used the accurip, fast rip and wasatch. The Accurip is pretty easy to use and I had really good results. They have good support also. I ended up purchasing the Wasatch. It's very robust and easy to use with excellent support.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

adawg2252 said:


> Unfortunately they don't make the 3000 anymore, it's closest counterpart is either the 3800 or the 4880.


I think the closest replacement for the US$1,100 Epson 3000 is the first dye ink printer Epson has made since they retired the 3000 in 2002, the Epson 1400 that uses a 'water resistant' dye.

Epson Stylus Photo 1400 and R1800 Printer Comparison - Epson America, Inc.


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## BlueIguana (Jul 15, 2008)

I would also agree with those that say that AccuRip kicks FastRips butt! At least for the Epson Stylus Color 3000.


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## jpspent (May 29, 2008)

I wish i would of seen this when i purchased fast rip , do to the the fact
that we have been pulling teeth with problems. i hope the accurip is the answer.


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## jpspent (May 29, 2008)

I don't know if this is still open for discussion but if it is has anyone had problems with there 1800 with fastrip. I'm having trouble with streaking after several cleanings i still have streaks.


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## tman07 (Nov 14, 2007)

Not sure that is a FastRip problem, what kind of ink are you using? Those print heads can clog very easily if you use the wrong ink.

Just fishing, are you sure you are not running out of ink?


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

jpspent said:


> I don't know if this is still open for discussion but if it is has anyone had problems with there 1800 with fastrip. I'm having trouble with streaking after several cleanings i still have streaks.


does it print normal from different applications, without using fastrip. the r1800 heads do clog rather easy. i usually print a full color page of some kind once a week to keep things running smoothly. if its just when using fastrip what do you have your settings set at in the printing properties. i usually use td-45lpi.


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## jpspent (May 29, 2008)

Ranging from the art I run 45 to 55 on average. Thanks for the input.


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

is that sd(single density) dd(double density) or td(triple density)


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## jpspent (May 29, 2008)

Triple density mostly.


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## amp267 (Oct 11, 2006)

well the one time that did happen to me i just cleaned it about 4 or 5 times. its sucks because you use up alot of ink to clean it, but it eventually worked. thats all i can recomend. sorry wish i could be more help.


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## alan802 (Mar 24, 2008)

When we were having the banding issues we tried the cleaning about 5 times. We found the free trial of accurip and tried it just for kicks. We didn't think it was going to solve our banding and weak prints but it did. I dont know why fastrip wasn't working properly and didn't care to find out. We just started the accurip and uninstalled fastrip and trashed it, dongle and all. Haven't had any issues since. Knock on wood.


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## jpspent (May 29, 2008)

Thanks for the input.


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## oversizedfilm (Mar 18, 2008)

are you using fast ink and the fast rip? We used fast ink in our r1800 and killed it. That dye ink they use dries the heads if left unused for any length of time. We bought another one and it worked good with the regular epson ink. But we were constantly running out of ink in the other cartridges. it was getting expensive to run. We ended up buying a used 4800 on craigslist with a low print count and it works great. We flushed the epson pigment ink and went with the dye ink from Graphics one. We haven't had any issues. We use wasatch softrip instead of fast rip. it works great. Shooting film is our business so we've tried a lot of things. I don't care what they the sales guys say it's going to take some time and experimentation to get the profiles correct.


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## FERNANDO BRAVO (Sep 23, 2008)

Hello...i need help..!!!....does anybody know where can i get my films positive done in the toronto area...i just got my screen printing equipment and i am dont have a printer yet....i really appreciate your help...


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