# Screen printing v Heat Transfers V plastisol



## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

hey there, I am a pretty expeirenced screen printer buthaving just set up a new company selling official horror apparel one on my clients requires a more photo realistic look for some of the images, It's of someones face and I have already tried to expose it with my normal mesh/emulsion but cant get the detail, what would be the best transfer paper to use, these would be for sale so I dont want to use anything that will crack/peel or fade after 40 washes! Can anyone recommend a one step full colour process? Also is the plastisol transfer just the same as using the ink?
Thanks for your time, any help is appreciated.
Spence


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Several papers work. Iron all, Miracool, transjet ll should all give you great photos on tees. I use Mira cool or Iron All because I like the softer feel. do you have a heat press? Have not had a problem yet and been through many washes. I use opaque Blue grid paper for darks.


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

badalou said:


> I use opaque Blue grid paper for darks.


thanks i read green grid was better? any idea? We need something that is retail quality and customers aren't going to be dissapointed with.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Spencer,

Full color photo transfers/shirts are ideal when someone wants to put the picture of their kid on it for grammy. One off type jobs. I always tell the customer to take extra care in the wash and let them know exactly what they are getting for the price they are paying ($10/shirt retail), and that another way of doing it would be Massive expensive to make 1 shirt (screen print). After the customer knows this, they usually say OK to photo transfers.

As for volume orders, Good quality plastisol transfers is the way to go. Mind you that POOR quality plastisol transfers are worst then photo transfers.

Any other questions feel free to post.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

hmmm... good questions. You can find very nice four-color process plastisol transfers (photo of someone). But keep in mind it's expensive to do so. Depending on the quality of transfer you're talking about, there could be up to six screens to pay for. 

C, M, Y, K + white backing + clear

How many transfers are you talking about? If you're making under 100, you might want to consider inkjet/laser transfers.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I use blue grid because they are softer opaque. I sell retail quality I would not use them if I did not think they were the best. I spent time testing several. I tried quite a few but not sure if green grid was one of them, may have been but if it was I passed and I am now pleased with blue grid. I think you should buy several types and try them yourself because you really are the ultimate person other than your clients that needs to be satisfied.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

hollywoodnightma said:


> thanks i read green grid was better? any idea? We need [an opaque transfer paper] that is retail quality and customers aren't going to be dissapointed with.


From my experience, there is no such thing. Several people have had decent luck with opaque papers, but several others (including myself) have not. I don't think any opaque paper will really give a good, retail quality personally. Opaque paper is also pretty limited -- you have to have a design you can cut right to the edge with no white space in between for it to loo any good at all.

That said, your best bet will likely be to do what lou suggested - try out several and see if they meet your quality standards. The opaque paper I've seen most recommended is from Transfer Technology - and they should send you a free sample page or two to try out if you ask them. I personally didn't like them, but many others do.


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## normsbrand (Jul 26, 2006)

What is the best type / brand of ink to use with these transfers?


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Most people suggest some variety of pigmented ink -- these inks won't bleed when washed, like dye-based inks sometimes will. Examples of pigmented inks include Epson's OEM Durabrite inks and the Magic Mix inks from TLM Supply House (which are specifically designed for t-shirt use).


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

badalou said:


> Several papers work. Iron all, Miracool, transjet ll should all give you great photos on tees. I use Mira cool or Iron All because I like the softer feel. do you have a heat press? Have not had a problem yet and been through many washes. I use opaque Blue grid paper for darks.


lou, thanks just watched your youtube videos!, what kind of wash life do these have? I may post the image we need to use so people cn give me their thought?
spence


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> hmmm... good questions. You can find very nice four-color process plastisol transfers (photo of someone). But keep in mind it's expensive to do so. Depending on the quality of transfer you're talking about, there could be up to six screens to pay for.
> 
> C, M, Y, K + white backing + clear
> 
> How many transfers are you talking about? If you're making under 100, you might want to consider inkjet/laser transfers.


so with a plastisol transfer i still have to pay for screens? I might as well screen print them myself! the image is of the singer of the metal band cradle of fear, he starred in a horror movie a few years ago and my client (the director) wants the best looking likeness of him, and i dont thnk screen printing is the way to go! we are probably talking 5-10000 shirts!!!!!!! here is the basic image pre photoshopping , what do you guys recommend???


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> hmmm... good questions. You can find very nice four-color process plastisol transfers (photo of someone). But keep in mind it's expensive to do so. Depending on the quality of transfer you're talking about, there could be up to six screens to pay for.
> 
> C, M, Y, K + white backing + clear
> 
> How many transfers are you talking about? If you're making under 100, you might want to consider inkjet/laser transfers.


we are looking at around 1000 to begin with?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

hollywoodnightma said:


> Also is the plastisol transfer just the same as using the ink?


Yes.



hollywoodnightma said:


> so with a plastisol transfer i still have to pay for screens? I might as well screen print them myself!


Very much so.



hollywoodnightma said:


> we are probably talking 5-10000 shirts!!!!!!! here is the basic image pre photoshopping , what do you guys recommend???


For that kind of quantity, I'd look into sub-contracting the job to a screenprinter who can do process printing. If nothing else heat transfers aren't as practical as screenprinting for those kind of quantities.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Solmu is correct, for that type of quantity and graphic type, 4 color process screen prining or transfers is the way to go. 

You just need to find a trades person that specializes with such work.


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> Solmu is correct, for that type of quantity and graphic type, 4 color process screen prining or transfers is the way to go.
> 
> You just need to find a trades person that specializes with such work.


If you know of anyone then please share the wealth!
I think we may want to farm all of our printing out, to make things easier on us .


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

if buy plastisol transfers from First Edition you do not pay for screens.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

badalou said:


> if buy plastisol transfers from First Edition you do not pay for screens.


You're going to pay for the screens one way or another. The price per transfer will probably reflect those charges. But it all depends on the quantity you want to buy.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> You're going to pay for the screens one way or another. The price per transfer will probably reflect those charges. But it all depends on the quantity you want to buy.


I guess we charge for screens. But really, what we charge the client for ( on a 6 spot color job for example ) is for the Film out put color seperations. 

*The screens, we TRASH them *and make new fresh ones for the clients on re-runs. *We do Keep the Films* locked up...... or the client takes them.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

> You're going to pay for the screens one way or another


well no. I don't think that is true. I am getting 24 transfers fro First Edition and they are costing me $1.63 each (One Color) . No extra charges except shipping.I sent them the proper art work so no charges there either. I called Dowing and they were going to charge me $1.22 plus 27 dollars screen charge that would make it $2.30 each. 1000 transfers is a small order???? yeah if your Disney! No I think 24 transfers is a small order.


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

badalou said:


> well no. I don't think that is true. I am getting 24 transfers fro First Edition and they are costing me $1.63 each (One Color) . No extra charges except shipping.I sent them the proper art work so no charges there either. I called Dowing and they were going to charge me $1.22 plus 27 dollars screen charge that would make it $2.30 each. 1000 transfers is a small order???? yeah if your Disney! No I think 24 transfers is a small order.


so you wold recommend First edition then Lou?


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Spencer it really is a matter of what your doing. First edition only prints 12 x 12 where Dowing prints 10 x 11.5, 10 x 17, and 13 x 23. You could do a lot of ganging with Dowling and that might cut your cost. Or your designs may be larger and you need the larger sheets. I think your going to get excellent customer service from both. The order I am doing is a test design on a tote bag and I am making zip on it but my rep back East thinks he can sell this design and has given me one order. Lou


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

badalou said:


> well no. I don't think that is true. I am getting 24 transfers fro First Edition and they are costing me $1.63 each (One Color) . No extra charges.


Hey Lou, what is the size of the 1 color transfers you are talking about ? 
That is important for members to know too.  

Small qtys transfer makers are hard to find. That I know.

Also, do you have the Film on hand ? .... for the transfer you are talking about.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I am getting a 12 x 12 sheet but the image that I am using is 11 x 8 so I added 2 lines below the design with my web name which I can use for myself to place on a tee. So I get something for me to use without extra cost.The design is black. The design is a simple an oval made up of Moose and the letters NH in center.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Lucy, Film? You mean for screenprinting. All I send them is the design which I did using Illustrator and they do everything else.


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> I guess we charge for screens. But really, what we charge the client for ( on a 6 spot color job for example ) is for the Film out put color seperations.
> 
> *The screens, we TRASH them *and make new fresh ones for the clients on re-runs. *We do Keep the Films* locked up...... or the client takes them.


excuse my ignorance , but who are the we you talk of!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

badalou said:


> I am getting a 12 x 12 sheet but the image that I am using is 11 x 8 so I added 2 lines below the design with my web name which I can use for myself to place on a tee. So I get something for me to use without extra cost.The design is black. The design is a simple an oval made up of Moose and the letters NH in center.


That is a good deal and Ideal for small quntity too. 

but your hat has to go....Bwahahaha.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Click her name and you will see her company she works for. they do transfers I believe. See not a self promotion but a reference.


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## fizz (Mar 4, 2006)

Hey Spence
Looking at the image you need some one who has good seperation software.
I would recomend you talk to the 2 printers I P.M'd you also talk to http://www.t-o-t-shirts.co.uk/TOTsite/Profile.html
With the sort of volumes you are talking of they would be the way to go.
i would also recomend http://www.advartex.co.uk/ as reliable volume printers.
Both mentioned printers have state of the art multiple auto machines and will turn 10,000 shirts round in 2-3 days.
regards
phil


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hollywoodnightma said:


> If you know of anyone then please share the wealth!
> I think we may want to farm all of our printing out, to make things easier on us .


one place I would recommend in the USA is RED ROCKET, they do a lot of rockwear licensed goods by the truck load...serious, sorta like your graphic. If ready made Direct screen printed t-shirts is what you need.  

here is the site: http://redrocketcorp.com/


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

fizz said:


> Hey Spence
> Looking at the image you need some one who has good seperation software.
> I would recomend you talk to the 2 printers I P.M'd you also talk to http://www.t-o-t-shirts.co.uk/TOTsite/Profile.html
> With the sort of volumes you are talking of they would be the way to go.
> ...


Fizz, thks, do you think it would be too big a job for you?


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

so we could transfer your prints onto any dark garments? can i get samples? please PM me. thanks spence


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Hi Spence, since we don't allow self promotion in the forums, and a lot of our members are printers, I think it would probably be best if you posted an official "Service Request" in our T-Shirt Classifieds area so you can get bids on your project. 

That way members who can provide that service can contact you directly, "off board"


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hollywoodnightma said:


> we are probably talking 5-10000 shirts!!!!!!! here is the basic image pre photoshopping , what do you guys recommend???


Ok, lets stay in focus here, above is what he needs.
Below is his art.


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## fizz (Mar 4, 2006)

Hi there Spencer
Yes I'd need to seperate that image to at least 6-8 colours to look realistic.
If you want me to pm you my mobile number let me know.
I am a sales rep for a screen print inks and chemicals supply company, so visit all the printers in London and south East.
I can help you with some of the better ones for your designs.
Phil


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Hi Spence, since we don't allow self promotion in the forums, and a lot of our members are printers, I think it would probably be best if you posted an official "Service Request" in our T-Shirt Classifieds area so you can get bids on your project.
> 
> That way members who can provide that service can contact you directly, "off board"


sorry, i have posted in services needed, maybe we got a little of track!


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

fizz said:


> Hi there Spencer
> Yes I'd need to seperate that image to at least 6-8 colours to look realistic.
> If you want me to pm you my mobile number let me know.
> I am a sales rep for a screen print inks and chemicals supply company, so visit all the printers in London and south East.
> ...


Phil, yes pm me your number!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

fizz said:


> Hi there Spencer
> Yes I'd need to seperate that image to at least 6-8 colours to look realistic.
> If you want me to pm you my mobile number let me know.
> I am a sales rep for a screen print inks and chemicals supply company, so visit all the printers in London and south East.
> ...


I think you may need to understand the impact of a graphic prescence. Six to eight colors isnt real and or profitable for a 3 to 4 color design. You need to step back and understand the process a bit more


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## fizz (Mar 4, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I think you may need to understand the impact of a graphic prescence. Six to eight colors isnt real and or profitable for a 3 to 4 color design. You need to step back and understand the process a bit more


If you think you could seperate this image in 3-4 colours and produce a realistic print on a dark shirt, then you need to show me how.
All serperation software and good art seperators/ printers would split this to at least 6 if not 9 or more colours
I understand the process pefectly, having worked at a very large t-shirt printers for 14 years implementing training programes in all areras of production and then worked the last 6 years supplying all the largest and best printers in the U.k. with products and tech support.
As far as profitability goes 1000 - 10000 shirts with this image would work out very favorably in price as a large printer would be able to turn the job round and a couple of days. Most dont charge for screens on runs of this size.
Regards
Phil


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

It looks like the art was design for printing on Black Shirts Only. A 4 COLOR process for printing on Black would do it, cost effective. Since the quantity is 5000 plus.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

well you can print it in as many colors as you want but that isnt going to be cost effective. Go for it!!!!


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

David, 5-10,000 shirts is a nice volume order.  ($$,$$$.$$).
Volume does play a role here, on the unit/price. It's the 4-clr process set up charges that discourage small orders. But with volume its a diferent story... i think.

Also, doing bigger ticket $$ jobs its not for everyone. A lot at risk involved, if something goes wrong.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Yep...I agree...thats a nice order...like I said...print it in as many colors as you like but I think with so many colors it loses graphic interest. There is a huge difference...its call impact...that design in black and white would be stronger for me than full color. I see that image oversized in black and white with halftone shading.


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Yep...I agree...thats a nice order...like I said...print it in as many colors as you like but I think with so many colors it loses graphic interest. There is a huge difference...its call impact...that design in black and white would be stronger for me than full color. I see that image oversized in black and white with halftone shading.


yeah i tried going b&w and just couldn't get the image looking right?


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hollywoodnightma said:


> yeah i tried going b&w and just couldn't get the image looking right?


ok, so you are passed the design stage, you need 5-10,000 shirts made and are now ready to pass it on to the printers.

Q: are these shirts pre-sold ?, are you going to sell them on demand or are they give aways/promo ?

This plays an important factor in the printing method and cost involved.

so, what is it ?


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

true 4-clr process on darks is the hardest printing out there. I would suggest simulated or index. Index would probably turn out better. On an order that size art and set up fees would normally be waived.


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## fizz (Mar 4, 2006)

I would go simulated all the way.
I have tried 4cp on darks the best way is a light base coat of white then a good triple stength set of inks, but it just dont look very punchy.
I also tried discharge 4 colour set and helped with devlopement for the sun chemicals set a round 10 years ago.
The results were inconsistant to say the least.
Black and white would look cool drop in a red for impact and you will be on a winner in my opinion.
Spencer i pm'd you my mobile, i can put you on to Duncan at T.o.T's who may be able to help you with the photoshopping if you you need it.
phil


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

fizz said:


> .
> 
> Black and white would look cool drop in a red for impact and you will be on a winner in my opinion.
> 
> Exactly!!!!


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## hollywoodnightma (Aug 25, 2006)

fizz said:


> I would go simulated all the way.
> I have tried 4cp on darks the best way is a light base coat of white then a good triple stength set of inks, but it just dont look very punchy.
> I also tried discharge 4 colour set and helped with devlopement for the sun chemicals set a round 10 years ago.
> The results were inconsistant to say the least.
> ...


Phil, i will call you next couple of days f that is cool?
spence


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## fizz (Mar 4, 2006)

Hey David 
we see eye to eye  
Knew we was both singing from the same song sheet, just got there in different ways. 
all the best 
phil


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## fizz (Mar 4, 2006)

hollywoodnightma said:


> Phil, i will call you next couple of days f that is cool?
> spence


No Probs Spence.
It's my boys birthday tomorrow so my phone is off all day but try me on Thursday or Friday.
Regards
Phil


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Quick note:* You can also contact each other via PM (by clicking on the username of the person). That's the preferred method to have a one-on-one conversation


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

> Black and white would look cool drop in a red for impact and you will be on a winner in my opinion.


the image has a bluish cast to it. Wouldnt black, white and red be dif than the image without that blue cast?


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## deba:unlimited (Sep 25, 2007)

I Have Read And Try To Understand As Much As I Can, Is The Plastisol Heat Press Printing The Same Quality As Having T-shirts Sent To A Shop And Havign Them Screen Printed? Does Anyone Know A Cost Figure, Pro/cons Of The Two. Is One Better Than Another For Printing On Sheer Jersey? Is One More Versatile Than Another. I Am Just Starting Out And Have Ideas For Designs Which I Want To Print, No Photo Quality Type Stuff. I Just Want To Know Overall Best Way To Go.....any Help?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

use the search tool..Rodney has a great thread on plastisol and his experience and sources


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## rags16 (Jun 12, 2007)

What's Better Transjet Ii Or Blue Grid


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually iron all for darks.. But runner up for me is blue grid..


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## Mary Prince (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm facing a similar dilemma myself....

I have some ideas that would work well for screenprinting but if I want a detailed, multicoloured, high resolution image, such as a photo, screenprinting just won't do....

Lot's of people seem to think that heat transfers don't produce retail quality products. I want to be able to sell my produce to customers. Am I better of sourcing a pofessional company to print the shirts for me rather than using an inkjet and transfer paper myself?

Thank you! Go easy on me- it's my first post!!!


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