# NEWBIE QUESTION: screen print white as underbase then dye sublimation on dark fabric?



## ianchanlr (Feb 9, 2018)

Hi guys! May i know is it possible to screen print white color first as underbase color, then dye sublimation on top of it? The material is nylon, dark color (dark blue/orange and red) stationery bag. If it is possible, then what is the issue that i should concern about? 

The customer require more than 4 colors on the design, therefore it is such a pain to screen print it. Will very appreciate for any advice or guidance given, thanks!


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

No.

But... what do you mean, you say under base, you want the sublimation to go on the underbase? or are you trying to combine screen printing and sublimation printing on the same garment?


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Sublimation only works on polyester. Not plastisol ink.


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

If you need 4 color/process, get transfers made by people who live for that stuff.

F&M for example.


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## SublimatorToo (Jan 15, 2009)

Condé has a product which they claim will put a base on a dark fabric which can then take a sublimation imprint.

Never tried it. Never seen the results. Best to contact them about it.


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

SublimatorToo said:


> Condé has a product which they claim will put a base on a dark fabric which can then take a sublimation imprint.
> 
> Never tried it. Never seen the results. Best to contact them about it.


But then it's not really sublimation any longer.

The whole idea behind sublimation is to have a garment with zero hand and permanent adhesion after the decorating process. If you have to add something to the process that isn't part of dye sublimation; then what's the point. Just go decorate it a different way and quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

STPG Press said:


> But then it's not really sublimation any longer.
> 
> The whole idea behind sublimation is to have a garment with zero hand and permanent adhesion after the decorating process. If you have to add something to the process that isn't part of dye sublimation; then what's the point. Just go decorate it a different way and quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.


In this case it is incidental and unimportant that the inks are Dye Sub. The promise of the Conde system is a self-weeding inkjet system for darks. And it is a one-step system, unlike many of the laser self-weeding papers for darks. No expensive white-toner laser printer, no cutting/weeding. But, yeah, so far I don't think they have delivered on this. But hopefully they will.

As to your larger point that it isn't really dye sub unless you are dying the fabric and getting the benefit of zero hand, I totally agree (and think I just liked a post of yours in another thread).


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

stpg press said:


> but then it's not really sublimation any longer.
> 
> The whole idea behind sublimation is to have a garment with zero hand and permanent adhesion after the decorating process. If you have to add something to the process that isn't part of dye sublimation; then what's the point. Just go decorate it a different way and quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.


_tim's back!!!_


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

A lot of comments seem to be broad strokes at the question and really opinions versus facts. The idea that you can only dye sub on poly is not accurate and you can get incredible unique looks mixing media. I do not think that many care what someone calls the process versus the results. We have mixed dye sub with such things as gold foil, for example, and had incredible results. Sure it increases production time and surely the foil has some "hand" associated with it but the results speak for themselves.


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## PCs Tees Texas (May 27, 2017)

You can sub on HTV White GLITTER.


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

splathead said:


> _tim's back!!!_


Dude, I have been soooooo freaking busy. Business has really picked up, but it's seriously cutting into my "play" time.


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

Let me clarify. I have no problem with folks using sprays, gels, household chemicals or whatever in their attempts to push the limits and do something new or really cool.

My only gripe in the dye sub arena is that the moment you add something; spray something, or use a separate material as part of the process; you cannot call it a dye sublimation garment any longer.

I've seen folks misrepresent this and it's bad for business. Call it whatever you want. Hell, make up a name. Call it "(Insert Your Name Here)'s Super Super Cotton Dye Process" for all I care.

Just don't go around misrepresenting garments as dye-sub when they really aren't.

Yes, I'm back.... joe! LOL.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

^ ^ ^ What he said! ^ ^ ^


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

STPG Press said:


> Let me clarify. I have no problem with folks using sprays, gels, household chemicals or whatever in their attempts to push the limits and do something new or really cool.
> 
> My only gripe in the dye sub arena is that the moment you add something; spray something, or use a separate material as part of the process; you cannot call it a dye sublimation garment any longer.
> 
> ...


We are a dye sub cut and sew shop doing mostly sporting apparel, backpacks, travel bags, hats, etc all created using dye sub. Over the 12 years we have been doing cut and sew a few things are generally true. As much as we pride ourselves in our seamstress work I have had less then 5 people ever comment on the sewing. Second, 99% of the people have zero clue what the term "dye sublimation" means. Surely there are a few that when inquiring about our line of products ask if we use dye sublimation but they are few and far between. I would guess in the market of dye sublimating on pre made substrates that number of people who know what dye sublimation is close to none. What sells most products? It is not the process it is the design/artwork/colors.


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

All that may be true, but "dye sub" is a buzzword that is more and more becoming known by the consumer. If you don't advertise what you do as Dye Sub, awesome. But we need to be self-policing as a decorating industry. We need to be upfront with what we do. Those that describe one thing as something else will eventually hurt us all.

Again, I have no problem with all sorts of processes; as long as we're upfront to the consumer and don't misrepresent what we do. I think we can all agree to that. Cheers.




Signature Series said:


> We are a dye sub cut and sew shop doing mostly sporting apparel, backpacks, travel bags, hats, etc all created using dye sub. Over the 12 years we have been doing cut and sew a few things are generally true. As much as we pride ourselves in our seamstress work I have had less then 5 people ever comment on the sewing. Second, 99% of the people have zero clue what the term "dye sublimation" means. Surely there are a few that when inquiring about our line of products ask if we use dye sublimation but they are few and far between. I would guess in the market of dye sublimating on pre made substrates that number of people who know what dye sublimation is close to none. What sells most products? It is not the process it is the design/artwork/colors.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

STPG Press said:


> All that may be true, but "dye sub" is a buzzword that is more and more becoming known by the consumer. If you don't advertise what you do as Dye Sub, awesome. But we need to be self-policing as a decorating industry. We need to be upfront with what we do. Those that describe one thing as something else will eventually hurt us all.
> 
> Again, I have no problem with all sorts of processes; as long as we're upfront to the consumer and don't misrepresent what we do. I think we can all agree to that. Cheers.


What really hurts our market is people who produce substrates with average to poor colors and from my experience that is a good number of people. Over the years I have been stunned at some of the pics people have posted thinking is was great. You see post from mods about how they are too lazy to install ICC profiles, etc. My hat goes off to anyone that goes outside the dye sub box as so many times people read this and other forums and you will see over and over - it only works on poly, you need have to press at 400, etc etc and it simply is not true and people just repeating what others before them have told them.


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## tacdavis (Jun 17, 2019)

Did it work? I'm about to try the same thing. I'll let you know how it turns out if you haven't. I'm no purest about screen printing or sublimation. I am just looking for a way to get the full color from a sublimation print onto a cotton t-shirt that is permanent and not prone to washing out or bleeding. I have tried several different methods of printing on cotton without screen printing and have found NOTHING that is adequate to our needs since we do want to be able to guarantee our results. The four color screen process is time and resource consuming so if we can find a way around it then that would be great.


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

tacdavis said:


> Did it work? I'm about to try the same thing. I'll let you know how it turns out if you haven't. I'm no purest about screen printing or sublimation. I am just looking for a way to get the full color from a sublimation print onto a cotton t-shirt that is permanent and not prone to washing out or bleeding. I have tried several different methods of printing on cotton without screen printing and have found NOTHING that is adequate to our needs since we do want to be able to guarantee our results. The four color screen process is time and resource consuming so if we can find a way around it then that would be great.


And there you have it - the issue is not can you glue together a system to use dye sub on a cotton shirt by applying some sort of base but most important can you do it and have the results that we should expect from the standard dye sub processes? As with tacdavis, never seen such to this date. Every pic I have seen posted of dye sub on cotton are muted even before washing.

The issue I do not understand is why on cotton when a DTG person can do it more professionally and most likely cheaper? Unfortunately most all of us starting out tried to do every deal that comes across our desk whether it is in our niche or not. If your client base demands cotton I would surely find another decorating process other than dye sub. If you focus on what you can do versus what you cannot do one will be more successful.


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## Brian (May 18, 2007)

Totally agree with "Signature". If you have a cotton garment to print on then send it to a DTG printer. No hand and lasts at least 50 washes.


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## itsnottrue (Sep 15, 2021)

My answer in short, if you don't care about my opinions; YES YOU CAN DYE SUB PLASTISOL WITH GREAT RESULTS (with a few modifications to the process.)

Old thread I know, but i've ended up here multiple times... I won't likely check back for responses, but if any of the original posters see this...well, here's some info. I used to frequent this site for all kinds of information. My shop works with screen print, DTG, and sublimation so I've spent a lot of time here on these forums. These days I don't prefer coming here for information because somewhere along the lines many of the users here have become purist inside-the-box profit chasers. (apologies to the rest of you that aren't..) This thread is a great example of this.

I see so many threads where someone asks a question about something a little unconventional and immediately, they are told all the reasons why it's stupid, a waste of time, "lipstick on a pig". Come on people...how do you think any of these processes came to be in the first place? By people trying new things.... asking questions...Why must you all respond with such negative comments? Not a SINGLE person here actually addressed the OPs question. YES YOU CAN SUBLIMATE PLASTISOL INK. I DO FREQUENTLY WITH GREAT RESULTS.

I understand profit is important to consider...but so is experimentation. That's how things are improved, and new products created. I have now been successfully sublimating a screen printed underbase using a custom ink formulation for quite some time. Colors as bright as dye sub on white poly, and they wash as well as any screen print with no fading. and guess what? My customers love the results...and my bottom line reflects this.

Dye sublimation onto an ink underbase is cost effective, yields better results than DTG could ever hope to, and requires ONE screen compared to the 8+ screens for a similar full color job. The best part is...call it what you want...it's still a shirt that was decorated with dispersion dye inks, or "sublimation inks" so...it's still a sublimated shirt whether you like it or not. No misrepresentation. To clarify...it's a shirt... that was dye sublimated.

To the people that ask questions and challenge the conventional methods...GOOD FOR YOU. Keep pushing the limits. To the people who instantly dismiss any idea that isn't in "the norm"....Go print your shirts and leave the rest of us alone. 

just my two cents...not that it matters.


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## Kitkatpattywack (Oct 26, 2021)

itsnottrue said:


> My answer in short, if you don't care about my opinions; YES YOU CAN DYE SUB PLASTISOL WITH GREAT RESULTS (with a few modifications to the process.)
> 
> Old thread I know, but i've ended up here multiple times... I won't likely check back for responses, but if any of the original posters see this...well, here's some info. I used to frequent this site for all kinds of information. My shop works with screen print, DTG, and sublimation so I've spent a lot of time here on these forums. These days I don't prefer coming here for information because somewhere along the lines many of the users here have become purist inside-the-box profit chasers. (apologies to the rest of you that aren't..) This thread is a great example of this.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I just read your comment on sublimation over screen printing underbase.
I also noticed your handle is 'its not true"
Just wondering if your comment was genuine or not?
I'm really interested in your experience if this process does work.
Have a fantastic day!
Thanks,
Kat


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## BadWolfieBad (Nov 24, 2021)

I would love to know your modifications. I have just set up my screen press and am thinking about trying this.


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## Krystala63 (12 mo ago)

itsnottrue said:


> My answer in short, if you don't care about my opinions; YES YOU CAN DYE SUB PLASTISOL WITH GREAT RESULTS (with a few modifications to the process.)
> 
> Old thread I know, but i've ended up here multiple times... I won't likely check back for responses, but if any of the original posters see this...well, here's some info. I used to frequent this site for all kinds of information. My shop works with screen print, DTG, and sublimation so I've spent a lot of time here on these forums. These days I don't prefer coming here for information because somewhere along the lines many of the users here have become purist inside-the-box profit chasers. (apologies to the rest of you that aren't..) This thread is a great example of this.
> 
> ...


Great response!!! I agree 100%. I am always pushing the limits and I too have wondered about the same thing.


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## Nostalgic Restorations (11 mo ago)

itsnottrue said:


> My answer in short, if you don't care about my opinions; YES YOU CAN DYE SUB PLASTISOL WITH GREAT RESULTS (with a few modifications to the process.)
> 
> Old thread I know, but i've ended up here multiple times... I won't likely check back for responses, but if any of the original posters see this...well, here's some info. I used to frequent this site for all kinds of information. My shop works with screen print, DTG, and sublimation so I've spent a lot of time here on these forums. These days I don't prefer coming here for information because somewhere along the lines many of the users here have become purist inside-the-box profit chasers. (apologies to the rest of you that aren't..) This thread is a great example of this.
> 
> ...


Thank you! This was such a frustrating thread I almost walked away because no one could just answer the question, will white plastisol ink hold a dye sub transfer? Can you please talk about what your process modifications are? I don’t care much about printing on cotton but it is so limiting to only be able to print true color detailed images on white garments. I don’t want to do all over sub so I was looking for an alternative for certain applications and sub over white undercoat would be perfect if there is a way to produce a quality, durable print that way. Please let me know 
Thanks


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## Cmay414 (11 mo ago)

STPG Press said:


> But then it's not really sublimation any longer.
> 
> The whole idea behind sublimation is to have a garment with zero hand and permanent adhesion after the decorating process. If you have to add something to the process that isn't part of dye sublimation; then what's the point. Just go decorate it a different way and quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.


Negative. You have to dye the dark out of the other fabrics if that's what you want too!?? So that's messing with it! The sub is definitely to take away from weeding and peeling.


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## Cmay414 (11 mo ago)

itsnottrue said:


> My answer in short, if you don't care about my opinions; YES YOU CAN DYE SUB PLASTISOL WITH GREAT RESULTS (with a few modifications to the process.)
> 
> Old thread I know, but i've ended up here multiple times... I won't likely check back for responses, but if any of the original posters see this...well, here's some info. I used to frequent this site for all kinds of information. My shop works with screen print, DTG, and sublimation so I've spent a lot of time here on these forums. These days I don't prefer coming here for information because somewhere along the lines many of the users here have become purist inside-the-box profit chasers. (apologies to the rest of you that aren't..) This thread is a great example of this.
> 
> ...


Yess!!!
I seen a poly white base too, so I'm wondering if thats new.

Also the ecosolvent dye sub is basically a white tone printer so idk how he thought he could feed ppl that bs.


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## stonge.mike (Nov 24, 2021)

ianchanlr said:


> Hi guys! May i know is it possible to screen print white color first as underbase color, then dye sublimation on top of it? The material is nylon, dark color (dark blue/orange and red) stationery bag. If it is possible, then what is the issue that i should concern about?
> 
> The customer require more than 4 colors on the design, therefore it is such a pain to screen print it. Will very appreciate for any advice or guidance given, thanks!


Hello, 
Did you ever try this process? If so, what are your thoughts on it? 
Thank you,
Mike


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## STPG Press (Jul 6, 2015)

splathead said:


> _tim's back!!!_


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am. It's been a minute.


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