# How to get this type of border?



## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

HI everyone.  I've posted a lot on the other forums here as I do heat pressing. However I also sell a LOT of embroidered patches. Currently I buy all mine from wholesale companies.

However I've been thinking of buying a commercial Ricoma machine and making my own patches, as well as making embroidery on my denim vest and biker shirts (I sell motorcycle biker stuff).

Most of the patches i buy are high quality, with a high thread count and an iron on backing that actually works! They also have a very nice border that looks almost "molded" into the edges.

There is no bulge where they end the thread; the back is fully flat. I have attached a picture that clearly shows the type of edge I want.

My question is, what is that called and how do I create it? Will I need more that an embroidery machine? I guess it looks laser cut too? I don't know much about how they are made. 

Any advice is much appreciated, thank you.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

It's just called an embroidered outline.


It is not laser cut. The way I know patches are made is they are embroidered directly on a backing or directly to stabilizer then separated/torn apart.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

splathead said:


> It's just called an embroidered outline.
> 
> 
> It is not laser cut. The way I know patches are made is they are embroidered directly on a backing or directly to stabilizer then separated/torn apart.


Thanks, but it is a type of border different than normal embroidered edges. The attached design below is a normal embroidered edge. It is thicker and it bulges in the back because the thread loops around the edge.

The first one the back is completely flat, with no thread looped around the edge. I want to know how that is done.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Thats called a merrowed edge. It's done on a merrow machine, not an embroidery machine.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

splathead said:


> Thats called a merrowed edge. It's done on a merrow machine, not an embroidery machine.


Oh okay, thanks. I have heard of that. I will look up merrow machine and see how much they are. I want to be sure I can do exactly what I want to do before buying a $12,000 embroidery machine.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Search youtube for 'embroidered patches'. Ricoma and others have videos. Various ways to do it. The demo I saw at a trade show just used thin stabilizer for a 100% embroidered patch. The completed embroidered border pretty much severs the patch from the backing.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

BikerBill said:


> Oh okay, thanks. I have heard of that. I will look up merrow machine and see how much they are. I want to be sure I can do exactly what I want to do before buying a $12,000 embroidery machine.


To be clear, the buffalo patch is using an embroidered border. 

The rectangle patch is using a merrowed edge.

To do the buffalo, all you need is an embroidery machine.


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

So, 'merrow' is just general 'overlocking?' It's not a particular 'type' of overlocking stitch?

I'm not an embroiderer, just curious, as I hear the term 'merrowed' a lot.


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## DrivingZiggy (Apr 24, 2017)

Have you considered flock? It would be much cheaper for you since you already have the heat press and you wouldn't have to buy an embroidery machine.

How to Achieve Embroidery-like Results with CAD-CUT® Flock

Well, I guess you'd have to get the machine anyhow if you want to do stuff like this:

Stahls' Flock Rip Away Appliqué


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

The first one posted is a satin stitch and may be laser cut, dye cut or cut with scissors. The second is a Merrow stitch done with a Merrow machine. They are about $3500 and take about 12 weeks to get. We have one, it is a feisty little beast. 

Merrow® Sewing Machine Co. Manufacturer of Industrial Sergers and Overlock Machines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J6Y2dM60j4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjfy3bDQBeQ


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies, I was not getting notices for some reason. I saw a video of a laser mounted on a Ricoma machine. Soon as the design was done the laser went around it and cut it super fast.

The patches I want to make often follow the design, making a lot of sharp and small corners. So a laser would be something I would want. I guess it's not much more in cost and simple to set up.

A lot of my patches would be larger 12 inch or more in size. They go on the back of biker jackets and vest. So they need to have a thick, rugged twill backing. I think I know where to get that.

A guy from Ricoma said the first picture border was a satin stitch and laser cut. But it could be merrow. I will keep looking. Thank you again for all the replies.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

BikerBill said:


> A guy from Ricoma said the first picture border was a satin stitch and laser cut. But it could be merrow.



Def not merrow. There are no stitches 'wrapping around' the design which is the definition of merrow. And even if it were, you could get the identical stitch and look all on your embroidery machine so why have a 2nd piece of equipment.




> A lot of my patches would be larger 12 inch or more in size. They go on the back of biker jackets and vest. So they need to have a thick, rugged twill backing.



Then you may want to consider a more robust machine than what $12K can buy. Speed for 1 reason and longevity for another. $12k are the top end of hobbyist machines. You might be better off with a more commercial grade one.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

A mounted laser on an embroidery machine is pretty expensive. Also, the first patch of the buffalo is NOT Merrow. A Merrow cannot do all those sharp turns that small.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

splathead said:


> Then you may want to consider a more robust machine than what $12K can buy. Speed for 1 reason and longevity for another. $12k are the top end of hobbyist machines. You might be better off with a more commercial grade one.


Yeah I want to be sure if I buy one it will do the job and not break down in a year. Too much cost and I have to decide if I will ever make my money back.

Buying patches wholesale cost less, but only if you buy a few hundred at a time. With my own machine I can come up with a design of my own, make 5 patches and see if they sell. If not no big deal, on to the next design.

I also could make the same design in several different colors. Plus of course I can use the machine for real embroidery designs on my denim biker shirts and vest. Unique designs and apparel only I would have.

One thing I have learned selling on Amazon is that if you can't compete with the big sellers you need to have unique items nobody else has. That is what I always go for.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

binki said:


> A mounted laser on an embroidery machine is pretty expensive. You can Also, the first patch of the buffalo is NOT Merrow. A Merrow cannot do all those sharp turns that small.


Oh, I thought they would not cost much. Well I will find out, they make cutting out complex patches a lot faster and cleaner.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

For our SWF a laser is $25K per head. That is $125K (plus sales tax, plus property tax annually here in California!) if we did our 4 head and single head. You can get a flatbed laser but you would have to be able to register the patches to be cut out. 

But, you can still do the patches and if you do enough of the same you can get a dye made and cut them that way. A local embroidery shop that does military patches does that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EJ36VjsM7U Notice the paper tape that is punched for the embroidery machine. That is why people who digitize are called Punchers, lol. They actually refer business to us that is too small for them. 

To make your patches you will want tackle twill, either cotton or poly (poly will be shiny, cotton not) and buckram for the backing. You can glue or not glue the back. We use Carr Textile for the cotton twill and buckram, Twill USA for the poly and Allstitch for the glue. 

Good luck and ask any other questions.


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## BikerBill (Feb 18, 2014)

binki said:


> For our SWF a laser is $25K per head. That is $125K (plus sales tax, plus property tax annually here in California!) if we did our 4 head and single head. You can get a flatbed laser but you would have to be able to register the patches to be cut out.
> 
> But, you can still do the patches and if you do enough of the same you can get a dye made and cut them that way. A local embroidery shop that does military patches does that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EJ36VjsM7U Notice the paper tape that is punched for the embroidery machine. That is why people who digitize are called Punchers, lol. They actually refer business to us that is too small for them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info. That is a BIG outfit in that video! I suppose I can cut my patches with an exacto knife. I have heard of hot knifes too?

I will check out the companies you mentioned also. Thanks again.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Get applique scissors and a desktop cutter, like a paper cutter but for metal.

Search Trophy plate cutter for the cutter. It will help with straight lines, 
https://allstitch.com/products/alls...TdaNpMqxOhUKhJBOpWe3zQLGlomrQEPhoC4PMQAvD_BwE


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

BikerBill said:


> That is a BIG outfit in that video!


It is but look at how they cut out the patches. They use a plate cutter for straight lines and a punch or dye for shapes. They also show Merrow and satin stitch patches.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

binki said:


> Notice the paper tape that is punched for the embroidery machine. That is why people who digitize are called Punchers, lol.



And why before desktop computers an embroidery file was called a tape.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Yeah. Kind of the same idea of punch cards for old computers. I had to use those when I learned programming. It is amazing that they can keep a machine 100 years old still running. They are literally just a couple of miles from me.


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