# Which Trademark class for selling t-shirts online?



## sirslickenstein (Jun 19, 2007)

Which Trademark class should I use...025 or 035. I want to protect my company name selling t shirts online...not too worried about the designs of the t shirts. Please only respond if your have already been thru this process.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Which Trademark class?*

I used class 025 "Clothing-- namely-T shirts, sweatshirts, shorts, caps, hats"


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

If I'm not mistaken, 035 is a service not a tangible good. So if you are selling t-shirts, you should be using 025 which is for clothing.


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## sirslickenstein (Jun 19, 2007)

So you both use the 025...is that to protect your clothing line name? I know that 035 is the class for online retailer, then you ad more info like what you are selling.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Yes, 025 should be used to protect a clothing line name. 035 is for services, not goods.


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## Mikeru14 (Mar 6, 2010)

025 is the way to go, I had my lawyer due this and he walked me through the process. also pick as many topics as possible so that later you don't have to pay to add


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## leah4357 (Nov 13, 2010)

About how much is it in the end for a trademark if you do not use a lawyer? I am TRYING to start a small business up and the money is the bigest issue at the moment. I read on the USPTo web site that it is 325.00 initial fee. I am guessing that is the money you send in with paperwork to begin the process. But what other fees would come up? 
O would hate to spend the 325 only to find out I cant afford the next step.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Hi Leah, welcome to the forums.

The fee is $325 if you submit the application online. If you submit using the TEAS Plus application, it's $275. But the Plus application requires you to complete more detailed info about your mark. You can read up on the differences between the two applications on the USPTO website.

Provided you submit the application correctly, the only additional cost that would come up is the $100 fee to submit the Statement of Use. If you are already using the mark in commerce and have sufficient proof, you may be able to attach that to the initial application and avoid the additional fee. But it's been a while since I have gone through the process, so I am not positive on that. So the only additional fees I know of is the $100.

I assume the reason you are looking to submit a trademark application is to protect the mark you intend to use. So it's important to keep in mind that registering your trademark will not prevent anyone from stealing your mark. The only way to truly protect your mark is to actively and aggressively pursue legal action against infringement. The "other fees" and "next step" could include paying attorneys fees to litigate.

If you are working within a modest budget, my advice would be to focus your money on production and marketing. You can always take care of the legal issues later on. Even without a federal trademark registration, you can gain common law trademark as you sell product and use your mark in commerce. There is also the option of registering your mark at the state level instead of the federal level.

Hope this helps and good luck with your brand!


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## RawDesign (Mar 23, 2010)

Very useful information Tim, thanks.


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## muneca (Sep 30, 2008)

ummm...good info here! thanks guys.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

How does a trademark help your business?.....You are selling shirts.....Are not protecting your designs more important than protecting your logo?...


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## leah4357 (Nov 13, 2010)

Thank you Tim That was very helpful. It all seems a bit overwhelming to be able to do something that is fun. 
I do have another question, 
I have a basic design that I am putting with different sayings on the shirts, but the design stays pretty much the same. Now when I go to send off for the trade mark would I be correct in saying that I would use the design with my business name as the trademark item? That would protect both my business name and artwork, is that correct?


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## Rusty44 (Apr 28, 2008)

Trademark Class 025 is what I used. I file myself on line. I was rejected the first time, but don't be discouraged because I did obtained the Name/Logo. The US Patent Attorney assigned to my file was so helpful, I was quite taken back by that. He guided me with the type of wording to use. Fortunately in my case I had been using the name prior to applying and had pictures, brochures, website, etc to prove it.

I say good luck to you and go for it.
Sandra


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

leah4357 said:


> I have a basic design that I am putting with different sayings on the shirts, but the design stays pretty much the same. Now when I go to send off for the trade mark would I be correct in saying that I would use the design with my business name as the trademark item? That would protect both my business name and artwork, is that correct?


Trademark registrations are typically for brand names and logos. So you would specifically submit either the brand name (business name) or stylized logo. If you submit a design along with your business name, it may not be eligible for trademark.

If you are trying to protect a design you should look into copyright protection, which is a whole different process altogether. Technically, you do not need to register your art for copyright to protect it although it does help to prove ownership in court if you ever have to. Copyright submissions are $35 and can be sent through the US Copyright office website.


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## Rusty44 (Apr 28, 2008)

kimura-mma is correct about the copyright advise. The trademark office denied me first time because the way I had it worded, and they were labeling it as "ornamental". I spoke with the US Patent Attorney, I explained that I was branding the name and then reworded it with his guidance and it passed the second time. 
Sandra


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## leah4357 (Nov 13, 2010)

Okay, so a copyright for the logo and trademark for the name. I think I can handle that. 

If your TM is rejected do you have to pay again to resubmit another idea? Do you loose your money? that's alot of money to loose.


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## Rusty44 (Apr 28, 2008)

No I did not have to pay again. I'm going by memory, but I think you have a time frame to respond in. That is why I ended up taking the shortest route and calling the US Patent Attorney directly. I was bound to get it!!!
Sandra


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

leah4357 said:


> Okay, so a copyright for the logo and trademark for the name. I think I can handle that.


Copyrights are for works of art such as a t-shirt design. Trademarks are for logos and brand names.

There can be a fine line between a design and a logo, so that is what can be tricky sometimes. Your description of using a basic design with different sayings is what is leading me to believe you are closer to a copyright. But to better clarify, maybe you can tell us what exactly you want to protect... the design? the sayings? the brand name? a logo? all of the above?


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## leah4357 (Nov 13, 2010)

Sandra- Thats's good to know. I was worried that if I paid and was rejected I would have lost the money. That does make it easier. 

Tim- I suppose to a point I am trying to protect all of the above. The design that goes on the shirt I want to be the logo for the business/brand. I guess the best way to put it is when you see that design I want it to be associated with my shirts. If the design isn't on one of the shirts maybe there would be a small stamp of it where the tag is. (Does this make sense?) 
The words I am not exactly worried about, but the business/brand name are the words I want to protect. Thats why I was wondering if since I wasnted both the design/logo and the business name protected if I should include them together.

I apologize if I am not wording this right, I am very new to all of this and trying to figure it all out. 
Thank yall for being so extremely helpful! I really apericiate it.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

leah4357 said:


> The design that goes on the shirt I want to be the logo for the business/brand.


Depending on the complexity and artistic nature of the design, it may or may not qualify as a logo to be eligible for a trademark.

For example... If you have your brand name surrounded by some random butterflies, that may not be considered a logo. But if you have your brand name and a butterfly is used within the workmark (let's say the butterfly replaces the letter "O" within the name) then that would probably be considered a logo.

The difference is this... You cannot trademark the random butterflies. So in that scenario, you would trademark the brand name and the butterfly design could be copyrighted. In the second example the butterfly is used as an identifiable fixture within the mark. Therefore the entire logo would be eligible for trademark.

It's hard to say where your design fits without seeing it. If you want, you could PM me the design and I would be happy to take a look and offer an opinion.



leah4357 said:


> I guess the best way to put it is when you see that design I want it to be associated with my shirts. If the design isn't on one of the shirts maybe there would be a small stamp of it where the tag is. (Does this make sense?)


Yes, this makes complete sense.

However, this is achievable through your product development, branding and marketing and not necessarily through federal registrations of trademarks and copyrights.

Federal registrations offer proof of ownership and legal recourse for the purpose of protecting your mark against IP infringement.

But that has nothing to do with developing your branding in the eyes of your target market. If you want consumers to associate a specific design with your brand and products, then use that design consistently throughout your products, marketing and advertising. By simply using the design you will gain some level of common law protection even without a registration. And you will also accomplish the goal of developing your overall creative branding.



leah4357 said:


> The words I am not exactly worried about, but the business/brand name are the words I want to protect. Thats why I was wondering if since I wanted both the design/logo and the business name protected if I should include them together.


My advice would be to trademark the brand name and let all of the other pieces fit together over time as you get launched. You could always register additional marks and designs later on.


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## Mikeru14 (Mar 6, 2010)

i would trademark logos as well - my husband and i even did fonts for our business, names, logos, everything.


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## Smerz (Jun 24, 2010)

Rusty44 said:


> kimura-mma is correct about the copyright advise. The trademark office denied me first time because the way I had it worded, and they were labeling it as "ornamental". I spoke with the US Patent Attorney, I explained that I was branding the name and then reworded it with his guidance and it passed the second time.
> Sandra


 
What do you mean by wording it wrong?


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## GOT (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm going through the trademark process right now. I've gone through it before and stumbled through it. 

The class I'm using is class 016, namely printed material, etc etc. I'm working it this way because I also plan on using the brand name for comic books, picture books etc. Class 016 has provisions for silk-screan prints, giclee prints, graphic art prints, lenticular prints, lithographic prints, art prints and so on. As I see it (and I could be wrong, probably am) direct-to-garmet and t-shirt printing is a print. I mean there are several provisions in class 016 for printing on cloth for various reasons. 

I might end up having to register the brand name in two classes, 016 & 025. 

Right now USPTO is also giving me the "ornamental" status.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

GOT said:


> I might end up having to register the brand name in two classes, 016 & 025.


Yes, to protect the mark for use on clothing, you will also need to apply for class 025.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

hotbox888 said:


> I am guessing that is the money you send in with paperwork to begin the process. But what other fees would come up?


If you file your application as an "intent to use" then you will eventually need to file a "statement of use" which will cost an additional $100.


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