# Whats the preferred DTG printer for mass production?



## thralldt (Jul 18, 2008)

I am in charge of production for a small print company that uses the direct to garment printing method to create all of our apparel, we continue to grow everyday but the current printers we are using (Mimaki GP-604D and Mimaki GP-604) are constantly hindering our ability to produce at the level of volume we are selling. I experience a problem with the printers everyday, we try to keep up on maintenance on a daily basis but it is to no avail. Do you have a recommendation for a better printer or maybe some tips that will help keep our printers running.

Thank you.


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

thralldt said:


> I am in charge of production for a small print company that uses the direct to garment printing method to create all of our apparel, we continue to grow everyday but the current printers we are using (Mimaki GP-604D and Mimaki GP-604) are constantly hindering our ability to produce at the level of volume we are selling. I experience a problem with the printers everyday, we try to keep up on maintenance on a daily basis but it is to no avail. Do you have a recommendation for a better printer or maybe some tips that will help keep our printers running.
> 
> Thank you.


I think the Kornit's, Brother, and DTG Viper will get you faster output, but they are big bucks.. 

This is all hearsay, but supposedly CafePress who prints thousands of shirts a day use a couple of dozen DTG HM1-C's..


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

Best printer for production, price, durability, would be the Mod-1... Digital Direct To Garment Printers by BelQuette

Printsrite Bag System-we modified our Kiosk 2 to use these inks .. 100% Dupont ink. 


don't listen to hearsay.. I highly doubt a HM-1C could handle a day with Cafepress volume.. maybe in the beginning when they didn't know any better..


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

FatKat Printz said:


> Best printer for production, price, durability, would be the Mod-1... Digital Direct To Garment Printers by BelQuette
> 
> Printsrite Bag System-we modified our Kiosk 2 to use these inks .. 100% Dupont ink.
> 
> ...


I heard that from a well respected member of this forum, but whatever.. How do you know the mod1 is the best for higher production? It would be helpful to know what kind of volumes the OP is doing.

P.S., I said a "couple dozen". Supposedly they replaced all their Kornits with HM1Cs. The Mod1 is probably a fantastic printer, but if the OP is doing 300+ shirts a day a Mod1 just ain't gonna cut it..


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## jim55912 (Jun 10, 2008)

We run two Brother GT-541 machines. Very little maintenance, they just keep pumping out the shirts.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Every one has different number to mass production. 
10doz/day? 100dz/day? 1000dz/day? what is your number to meet?
Only way to meet mass production on DTG is many printers at this point. Even a Kornit, but actually Kornit is not fast as they claims. 
Speed of head movement is never as same as end of the day printed shirts count.
To meet Mass production requires longevity also. Each printer has their life. You can learn this in www.epson.com instead of listen sales pitchs.
Many digital developing companies are working on speed as we speak. Their goal is 5-7 second/shirts. I saw couple which printed in 5 second (USA A4 size) from test machine. Price tag is pretty high but I see the market is there.
Good luck with your hunting.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

chobay said:


> I heard that from a well respected member of this forum, but whatever.. How do you know the mod1 is the best for higher production?


From the mouths of another well respected members .. 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/belquette/t115639.html

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t136312.html



Belquette said:


> One needs to look into what machines the largest print on demand companies in the world use and why they decided on their direction.


I am sure they *had* a HM-1C .. sure it was "tested" at one time ..

I am sure they have had every printer on the market.. but realistic you can't seriously considered an HM-1C to be a big production printer..but whatever

No we don't know the OP volume.. its none of our business he obviously can't handle his current volume with what he has..

Check out the Mod-1 videos on You Tube see if that's fast enough for you...


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## thralldt (Jul 18, 2008)

We do a lot of oversized prints for our apparel line and our expectations are around 100 shirts in an 8 hour shift (even on days that the printer isn't malfunctioning, this goal seems unachievable), we are currently in the market to expand our printing capabilities but I don't know if I can handle having to deal with 3 Mimaki's not running properly instead of 2.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

thralldt said:


> We do a lot of oversized prints for our apparel line and our expectations are around 100 shirts in an 8 hour shift (even on days that the printer isn't malfunctioning, this goal seems unachievable), we are currently in the market to expand our printing capabilities but I don't know if I can handle having to deal with 3 Mimaki's not running properly instead of 2.


Whats oversized??


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

chobay said:


> P.S., I said a "couple dozen". Supposedly they replaced all their Kornits with HM1Cs. The Mod1 is probably a fantastic printer, but if the OP is doing 300+ shirts a day a Mod1 just ain't gonna cut it..


key word in this statement : Supposedly...

but I agree that they proly did replace their Kornits...


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Best way to "mission complete" is send your art to all sellers and request sample print out and send to you to exam. Hardest to print and biggest size you ever print. And ask them guarantee money back if printer does not meet what they said. In writing. Or place their printer in your place and get paid later if you have good credit. Trust your eyes only not anything else. Do not make same mistake you made in past with Mimaki. Many forumers here have some interest involve somehow here and there.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Thread note:* some posts were moved out of this thread since we do not allow companies to brag about/self promote their own products in the forum threads to help avoid sales pitches to users who are looking for end user opinions. Any questions about this, please contact me directly ​


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

If you need reliable production, AND a respectable print size (17" x 40"), I would recommend checking out the Neoflex systems. I've owned a lot of machines, and even have two different brands in-house, right now, but the Neoflex is by far my favorite. Sure, I've thought about getting a smaller 1900 based unit for printing those left chest prints and anything smaller than 12", but since a good portion of our designs are "oversized", it was important to me to be able to fill even the most complex orders (I will never be "convincing" my clients to shrink their artwork down to match my print capabilities).

The Neoflex machines are solid, and produce stunning quality; make sure you get your hands on each machine, first, to make sure it is right for you - after being swindled in the past, I never make a decision without first printing a few hundred shirts on a unit (which is what convinced me to go with the Neo, this time around). Also, it is my advice to pretty much toss out anything a distributor tells you, when making your decision - focus only on what the end-users in the field are saying, then couple that with your own first-hand experience on the machine (any manufacturer who is confident in their machines will let you come in and print a bunch of shirts - just bring your own shirts, and pay for the ink). Carefully evaluate which features are most important to you, then pull the trigger!

Good luck in your decision - remember there is no "best printer", only the "best printer for me".


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> P.S., I said a "couple dozen". Supposedly they replaced all their Kornits with HM1Cs. The Mod1 is probably a fantastic printer, but if the OP is doing 300+ shirts a day a Mod1 just ain't gonna cut it..


As far as I know, they used to use HM1Cs, but they now use several Mod-1s that are connected together to meet the high production needs.



> We do a lot of oversized prints for our apparel line


How big are your oversized prints?


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## Belquette (Sep 12, 2005)

chobay said:


> I think the Kornit's, Brother, and DTG Viper will get you faster output, but they are big bucks..
> 
> This is all hearsay, but supposedly CafePress who prints thousands of shirts a day use a couple of dozen DTG HM1-C's..





Rodney said:


> As far as I know, they used to use HM1Cs, but they now use several Mod-1s that are connected together to meet the high production needs.


Thank you for clarification on this Rodney.
They have never used DTG HM1's in production.
_
We have worked very hard to meet the demands of our customers._


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

Belquette said:


> Your wrong.


Another helpful post from Belquette.....


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I have personally not been impressed by the Kornit prints. Sure they are fast, and it's nice to have the pre-treat built into the printer, but since the pre-treat is not dried and pressed the prints look grainy to me because of filibration. The samples I saw at the show they were handing out we throw away as rejects.

As our business expands, we add smaller format printers as we feel the print quality is better for the type of artwork we print and they are far cheaper.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> I am sure they *had* a HM-1C .. sure it was "tested" at one time but if the machine is no longer available for sale do you think they would continue using them???


Carla,

You are welcome to come by and look at the HM1-C which is very much available and a going entity - certain members of the DTG Digital group may have chosen to migrate to another platform, but we (ColDesi, Inc) have not. 

Any discussion of the company mentioned is going to be totally hearsay as they require a non-disclosure from anyone who enters their building - which is probably even more than should be said.


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## thralldt (Jul 18, 2008)

we consider oversized to be anything bigger the 20" X 20", do you have a different idea about what oversized printing is?


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

Don-SWF East said:


> Carla,
> 
> You are welcome to come by and look at the HM1-C which is very much available and a going entity - certain members of the DTG Digital group may have chosen to migrate to another platform, but we (ColDesi, Inc) have not.


Thanks for the offer.. but my its a bit out of my way.. maybe at ISS 

glad to hear you are still offering help for these machines.. 


.. I revised my statement I did not know these were still in production since the hearsay was that the K3 and Viper were the only things available. 

What is ColDesi,Inc association with Pantograms now??


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

thralldt said:


> we consider oversized to be anything bigger the 20" X 20", do you have a different idea about what oversized printing is?


Does your Mimaki do that now?? 
are is that your goal to find a 20 x 20 ??


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> What is ColDesi,Inc association with Pantograms now??


Only difference is the new name. Ownership of both companies remains the same as it always has been. 

Careful of hearsay and rumors, as they are often incorrect or based on questionable information or outright falsified information.

Cheers,


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

thralldt said:


> we consider oversized to be anything bigger the 20" X 20", do you have a different idea about what oversized printing is?


It depends on who you talk to. Some people consider anything over 12x12 to be oversized. Some people say it's anything over 15x15.

So the actual numbers help because that narrows down the field of DTG printers that can print that size.


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## elTostador (Oct 9, 2007)

Justin Walker said:


> Another helpful post from Belquette.....


Yes, Belquette... The worse buying decision in my life, to buy a Flexi Jet from them. Is still collecting dust in a corner of my warehouse, I can't even get rid of it for it's price on plastic.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

How much are you selling it for? What model is it.


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## kevrokr (Feb 26, 2007)

elTostador said:


> Yes, Belquette... The worse buying decision in my life, to buy a Flexi Jet from them. Is still collecting dust in a corner of my warehouse, I can't even get rid of it for it's price on plastic.


Albert,

I cannot find your information in our records. I know you're in Spain so you didn't buy direct from BelQuette. Please PM me your serial number and who your distributor was (or who you bought it from if you bought used).

Thanks!


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## dragonknight (May 30, 2009)

thralldt said:


> I am in charge of production for a small print company that uses the direct to garment printing method to create all of our apparel, we continue to grow everyday but the current printers we are using (Mimaki GP-604D and Mimaki GP-604) are constantly hindering our ability to produce at the level of volume we are selling. I experience a problem with the printers everyday, we try to keep up on maintenance on a daily basis but it is to no avail. Do you have a recommendation for a better printer or maybe some tips that will help keep our printers running.
> 
> Thank you.


The best mass production is DIY DTG Printer you can have many of them in the price of around $2000 compare with $20.000 (you can have 10 of them) or $200.000 (you can have 100 of them)


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Lots of developments in DTG since this thread was active, anybody have opinions on what they think is the best machine out currently for high production?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Aeoon. Period


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

Smalzstein said:


> Aeoon. Period


Do you have one?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Maybe in the near future 

But I've played with one a lot. Kornits are couple of levels below in print quality.


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Smalzstein said:


> Aeoon. Period


Could you tell me why Aeoon is the best for high production?

Have experience with one that you could share?

I'm printing white pieces of fabric 40cm x 16cm with full coverage, assuming the pieces were per loaded on platens how many pieces you think could be hour with this machine?

Any feedback is appreciated!


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

kinzie said:


> Could you tell me why Aeoon is the best for high production?
> 
> Have experience with one that you could share?
> 
> ...


500+ Easily!!!

It is rated to print up to 800 shirts per hour with a print size of 21mm x 30mm if you can load it that fast!!!


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Dekay317 said:


> 500+ Easily!!!
> 
> It is rated to print up to 800 shirts per hour with a print size of 21mm x 30mm if you can load it that fast!!!


Wow that printer is amazing!

Any idea on the cost?


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## jim55912 (Jun 10, 2008)

Here is the machine in production.

It looks to me like they printed a half dozen shirts in as many minutes on the video, no?

This is 1800 shirts per hour, does it look like a bit more than twice as fast?

We get about 60 white shirts per hour off of our two old Brothers combined.

Two operators on our M&R Sportsman can hit 600 per hour if they are really pushing.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

jim55912 said:


> This is 1800 shirts per hour, does it look like a bit more than twice as fast?


Comparing an automatic screen printer to a DTG printer is like comparing apples to oranges. However...IMO companies like M&R better get ready for a shift in market share as the DTG technology continues to get faster, better and cheaper every year.


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## jim55912 (Jun 10, 2008)

Dekay317 said:


> Comparing an automatic screen printer to a DTG printer is like comparing apples to oranges. However...IMO companies like M&R better get ready for a shift in market share as the DTG technology continues to get faster, better and cheaper every year.


I agree.

This thread is claiming up to 800 shirts per hour on a digital machine. I am just offering a picture of what twice that speed looks like. I have never seen anything approaching 1/5 of that in a video of a DTG machine.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Well it will do 200 - 250 prints in a4 hour without a problem with white ink. It can print hell of faster but the main problem I believe will be white ink gelling time between layers. CMYK only it will shoot 600 pieces withot a problem maybe more.

Also in the video you've posted I don't belive it's 12 head model which is fastest. I've seen it print faster at Fespa, about 35 second for full dark print


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## jim55912 (Jun 10, 2008)

If I had a horse that could run 3 times as fast as the other horses you would see him on YouTube TODAY.

I am skeptical. I know technology is getting better. I wish these companies would not over sell. We owned one of the first machines from the other big printer... The sales pitch made it sound like it would be a breeze. No pun intended.

When M&R says their machine will do 72 dozen and hour it is because the machine actually has run that number in regular production.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Aeoon speed - YouTube


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## jim55912 (Jun 10, 2008)

That is fast.

Production, load, unload, etc.

I agree it is getting better.


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Whats the cost on one of these machines?


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

jim55912 said:


> Here is the machine in production.
> 
> It looks to me like they printed a half dozen shirts in as many minutes on the video, no?
> 
> ...


Which Brother model are you running?


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## Belquette (Sep 12, 2005)

I would suggest to ask the same question after SGIA 2014...just saying.


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## ernti (Nov 14, 2012)

Smalzstein said:


> Well it will do 200 - 250 prints in a4 hour without a problem with white ink. It can print hell of faster but the main problem I believe will be white ink gelling time between layers. CMYK only it will shoot 600 pieces withot a problem maybe more.
> 
> Also in the video you've posted I don't belive it's 12 head model which is fastest. I've seen it print faster at Fespa, about 35 second for full dark print


Boguslaw,what do you mean when you say the main problem will be white ink gelling time between layers?


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

ernti said:


> Boguslaw,what do you mean when you say the main problem will be white ink gelling time between layers?


To get bright vibrant images you need to let the white ink "flash" so that the color layer doesn't mix with the white and your red's turn pink. This all has to do with the pretreatment and ink chemistry. There is a new pretreatment called Image Armor Ultra that allows the white ink to setup VERY fast for machines like this.


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## jim55912 (Jun 10, 2008)

kinzie said:


> Which Brother model are you running?


The original GT-541


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## Print1Shirt (May 4, 2014)

thralldt said:


> I am in charge of production for a small print company that uses the direct to garment printing method to create all of our apparel, we continue to grow everyday but the current printers we are using (Mimaki GP-604D and Mimaki GP-604) are constantly hindering our ability to produce at the level of volume we are selling. I experience a problem with the printers everyday, we try to keep up on maintenance on a daily basis but it is to no avail. Do you have a recommendation for a better printer or maybe some tips that will help keep our printers running.
> 
> Thank you.


Here an honest opinion and you might need to answer first prior to looking into DTG. If you are doing daily maintenance and still getting problems daily or on a weekly basis and it is something you would like to reduce as part of your operation? You might not be ready for a DTG. Does a DTG work well when working? The answer is yes. Does it cover areas I would not do in screen printing or heat transfer? The answer is yes. Will it take time for maintenance, troubleshooting and learning something new in the DTG behavior, likes and dislikes? The answer is yes. Does the environment have to be controlled? The answer is yes.

So, if you are still ok with what's ahead of you base on the questions, then go and spend the money.

Lastly, does it take time to prep garment prior to printing? The answer is yes. Are you limited on the type of garment to print on? The answer is yes unless you have the correct pallets to use and have tested many kinds of garments, the right pretreat prep and amount, pressing time, etc. Would you need time to create profiles, template layouts, etc? The answer is yes other than what the manufacturer have already provided. Will you be spending money on both actual testing and learning? The answer is yes. Will you be spending money when the machine has issues and just takes a dump in between production, the answer is yes. Does the manufacturer have documentation on lots of the quirkiness of DTG? Probably not.

DTG is a hybrid machine that is desk jet type, which has its own issues, then put together inks that has to be maintained a certain way, and a machine that is either new engineering or repurposed, plus all the other extras you have to do on the garment then thrown in a bowl and mixed. This what you would expect.

I guess this is base on a mid level DTG. Not sure how the higher end or lower end DTG is. I would like to get my hands on those for testing as well as pretreat machines.

You can send test print to all the DTG companies and you probably get great samples. You can even read awesome DTG specs as far as speed, etc. You can even go to all the shows and see it for yourself how well it prints and you will be amazed. But if you are not comfortable with the questions I asked, you may not be ready for DTG.

Do I like our machine? The answer is yes. Does it print well. The answer is yes and it is awesome! Do I wish I had time testing a machine prior to spending a large sum of money or interviewed someone who will provide a real honest opinion and experience instead of just reading from the web or viewing it from shows? The answer is yes. Because all of those you only see the front side of the machine. Once you own one then you see what goes on behind the scene. Do I have to remind myself on what to expect from the machine and where DTG is today now that we own one. The answer is yes. If I don't, I will take the machine and drop it from the tallest building.

Btw, if you want to do 100 shirts a day, you will need a dedicated person on pretreatment and for sure a pretreatment machine.


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## mag1cm4n (Nov 17, 2015)

I kind of just stumbled upon this, but I work for a dtg company that runs 12 kornits. Before starting with this company I had no clue about these machines, but after reading some comments, watching videoes, and running a kornit avalanche I can certainly say they are by far faster than any other production printer. While they may not print as much as the company likes to advertise (unless your printing tiny prints ) I can still easily average around 60 to 70 an hr, and that's single piece orders with all separate art. Just in the last two days I've pumped out over 1200 pieces on one machine. They may be pricey, but they are worth it


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

mag1cm4n said:


> I kind of just stumbled upon this, but I work for a dtg company that runs 12 kornits. Before starting with this company I had no clue about these machines, but after reading some comments, watching videoes, and running a kornit avalanche I can certainly say they are by far faster than any other production printer. While they may not print as much as the company likes to advertise (unless your printing tiny prints ) I can still easily average around 60 to 70 an hr, and that's single piece orders with all separate art. Just in the last two days I've pumped out over 1200 pieces on one machine. They may be pricey, but they are worth it


Because you use a larger number of kornits can you share your experience of what type of maintenance is required for an avalanche?
and what is the reliability of the equipment like?


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## mag1cm4n (Nov 17, 2015)

Well really, your reliability depends on your maintenance, which is basically making sure your print heads are cleaned. Other than that you really just need to put it to work. They are made for mass production so you don't want to let it sit for more than two days or you will most likely be flushing out heads.


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## NZACO (Jan 21, 2012)

mag1cm4n said:


> Well really, your reliability depends on your maintenance, which is basically making sure your print heads are cleaned. Other than that you really just need to put it to work. They are made for mass production so you don't want to let it sit for more than two days or you will most likely be flushing out heads.


Does the pre-treatment inside the printer affect the PH and what is required for cleaning the PH.

What is involved with flushing out heads?


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## mag1cm4n (Nov 17, 2015)

Not at all. The way the program works, it makes sure the PH is either capped, or moves to the opposite side of the machine (if spraying last pallet it moves the PH to the right and vice versa) 
As for cleaning, I try to make sure to wipe and swab my heads and wipers before and after each shift. If you do have to get into flushing the PH is fairly simple. Just force the flushing fluid through the line to the clogged module. I like to let it sit in the lines for a bit before purging ink back through.


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