# Digitizer Challenge Results



## oneill (Mar 6, 2008)

The original post can be located here:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/referrals-recommendations/t113184.html

Hello embroiderers and digitizers.... I posted a thread a few weeks ago asking digitizers to take a TEST, just using the same design for everyone so embroiderers who contract the work out can compare the same design. Well this TEST isn't so much a Pass or Fail, but really the point behind this was to show how the same design gets interpreted so many different ways. 

This is the email that was sent out to anyone who applied:
Hey Name-

Sweet.... *You may digitize however you want, all I ask is the "S" be a satin stitch (I know satin stitches aren't usually this long, but I have my reasons LOL). *File will open to size. *I look forward to sewing your work. *Need a .dst file. *No rush.

Attached you will find the original artwork I sent to the digitizers (.pdf file) which when opened opens up at 4" wide. The first pic is the 4 original designs I had done about 4-5 years ago (I since added the red dots in the T). I currently use the digitizer in the upper left of the first page. You can see how the same design was digitized so differently. 

I kicked the idea around for awhile about "grading" the designs, however I don't think it's fair I'm the one who says Pass or Fail. It comes down to the embroiderer and how they feel about the file that was returned. I could of spelled it out exactly how I wanted the design to be programmed but then that's missing the point. However I will say this is what I looked for:
1. Size come back the way I sent it out?
2. First T: Do the Red circles look circular or more egg shaped?
3. E: How is the Blend? (Brown to a White)
4. E: Does the E have rounded corners?
5. E: Is the circle circular or egged shaped? I preferred satin stitches for this part.
6. S: All I asked was to make it a satin stitch, some people did some didn't. See how well the digitizer listens to want the embroiderer (customer) wants.
7. T: Was the outline similar to the original artwork?
8. Lines: Do the lines have round ends?

Now everyone can judge for themselves. I used a controlled environment for the testing. I used the same machine for all designs, I did not edit the designs in anyway, just opened them up to get color sequences. I ran the machine at 700 spm for all the designs. I had people take the test who just started digitizing and some who have been doing this for years. Both US and international digitizers are represented. Some digitizers charged as little as $1 a 1000 and some up to $16 a 1000. 

So in conclusion, this isn't a contest on "who's the best" its a reality check to show how a design is perceived by different people and how different the results will turn out. Hope this helped other embroiderers in my situation. The last pic will show the design page with layout with the digitizers first name. Any digitizer who submitted a design can let the forum know who you are by first name and correlated design. Thanks to everyone who participated.

I'll try to post some better pics in a day or so, just been busy with orders and trying to sewout all entries.


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## ruaokie2 (Feb 19, 2010)

I am Kim mine is 4th page middle design forgot the outline on the E


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## astitchinthyme (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi, I'm Herby, and mine is third page top left. Wish I had paid attention to the entry and exit points on the graduated fill on the E which has resulted in the double line of stitches in the middle. Apart from that, what is your opinion, which is why I did the challenge. You said you would end up with a winner, and I quote "I will only give my personal opinion for the sewouts and post all pics and let every embroiderer judge for themselves. So if you are good let the digitizing do the talking..... Cause it's not about price it's about quality.
" HOWEVER I dont see any opinion.
The link to the pdf files doesn't work for me, however the alternative link you sent me does, so I was able to see the pdf files. One of my main intersests was how other digitizers tackled the S in satin, however because it is a jpeg in black it isn't possible to make out any detail. Perhaps you could send the participants all the dst files so we could compare for ourselves. feel free to send mine to whoever you please, either with a credit or anonamously.
Regards, Herby.


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## Boomerbabe (Sep 5, 2009)

Very interesting results.


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## oneill (Mar 6, 2008)

astitchinthyme said:


> Hi, I'm Herby, and mine is third page top left. Wish I had paid attention to the entry and exit points on the graduated fill on the E which has resulted in the double line of stitches in the middle. Apart from that, what is your opinion, which is why I did the challenge. You said you would end up with a winner, and I quote "I will only give my personal opinion for the sewouts and post all pics and let every embroiderer judge for themselves. So if you are good let the digitizing do the talking..... Cause it's not about price it's about quality.
> " HOWEVER I dont see any opinion.
> The link to the pdf files doesn't work for me, however the alternative link you sent me does, so I was able to see the pdf files. One of my main intersests was how other digitizers tackled the S in satin, however because it is a jpeg in black it isn't possible to make out any detail. Perhaps you could send the participants all the dst files so we could compare for ourselves. feel free to send mine to whoever you please, either with a credit or anonamously.
> Regards, Herby.


Hey Herby-
I think you had a good TEST. In my opinion: The E should have been Brown to White but the way it was digitized I had to make it red. Outline seemed a tad thick around the Ts and on the lines the right sides were a little pointed, could of been rounded off a little. 

I liked how you used a satin on the little circle for the E, alot of people used a fill, cleaner with a satin. The S had really tight satin stitches I liked that even though I wouldn't have a satin stitch normally jump that long. 

PS, the majority of people did do a satin stitch for the "S". Some used a satin variation which was acceptable but a few decided to just make it a fill.

Thank you for participating.


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## astitchinthyme (Nov 16, 2009)

thanks for the feedback


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## paylessdigitizin (Mar 26, 2010)

Hi 
I have submitted the digitized logo, My name is in 4th page.Sorry but how I can check my ranking.
Thanks
Rana
[email protected]


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Ian,
4th page on right. Thanks for the opportunity and the feeback. interesting how It diddn't occur to me to put the fills in the "T"'s..... Normally questions like this (background color) and fabric type would be my first clarifications with a client. I'm fairly happy with the results... though picking the mid color on a 3 color blend is something that that would make a big difference in my oppinion. I left in some "flaws" in the underlay on the left T, that could have worked of failed depending on the target fabric. Also, depending on the substrate, I could have saved stitches and an extra color change(and trim time) or 2. Andrew, any feedback is great. Very interesting.

Ian


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

Am I right you received 19 designs back?

Please can you post 19 different posts starting with the winner with points on what they did and didn't do and contact details of the digitiser and a good scan of the sample because the S is not clear.

Maybe the participants can also email you their rates and turnaround times etc etc which you can add to their individual posts along with the digitisers contact so that any reader can open up the image and choose which digitser would work for them.

This is just my suggestion but its up to you how you wish to list the results.

Great samples though...... it would be interesting to know where the digitisers who did not follow the instructions come from....maybe overseas because of poor understanding of english.

Look forward to the results....

Rish


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks for the results!
I don't understand the testlayouts pdf though.
Can you explain it to us?
I would think that is the pdf with results all I see are white boxes with names in it?


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

sorry my bad
Talked to soon the results are there all 23 of them.
Thanks again
the colors on the gradient/fountainfill on the E are they chosen by you or by the digitizers?
Some of them are in green or is it just my screen?


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

*Test Design by Powerstitch*

Attached is the design from powerstitch.

Page 3 (bottom left)

Contact
Wilcom Digitizing- Wilcom Digitizing, UK Digitising Embroidery Digitising Design Services

Flat rate $20.00 (L/B & cap designs)
Turnaround time: 24 hours


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## qing (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey ! I am Elle from Momo Lifestyle Co.,Ltd. in China 

First ... thanks to Andrew ( oneill ) for offering us such a good chance ...

Well,the 2nd one ( in 2nd row ) at the lower right hand corner in the 2nd page was done by us !

--- I checked all the sew out samples and found that our size is the smallest one ! 

And we did not do the " gradient " effect on the letter " E " because our digitizing supervisor says that " the colors are very important for gradient effect " 
--- if the colors you choose for gradient part are not match to each other or the whole design then the sew out will not look beautiful.

( but personally,I like the gradient effect on the ' E ' in the one did by Wicked < right one in the 1st page > about 4~5 years ago )

Ah I noticed that the small red dot in the " T " is not that round ...


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

This is a very useful post, and interesting. Thanks for the effort!


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## Sew Sharp (Apr 8, 2010)

Hi I'm Willie (Sew Sharp). Mine is top of page 5. Thanks for the opportunity. I agree with skits (Dee) about posting results with pointers etc. I'm kind of new at this. I've done digitizing for myself but thought I'd take a chance at this just to see how I'm doing and to see if I might be able to do this for others. I think I got a little thick on the right side of the second T. I thought about doing satin on the E circle but forgot about it as I was paying more attention to the blend since I had never done that before.


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## essen48183 (Sep 25, 2009)

I'd like to see contact info for each... for example, first page "Wicked" I think made a nice file... how do I send them business... which I think was the premise for this in the first place, that good work would lead to more work from people on this forum.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

It is interesting to see the different interpretations, especially the gradient fills. A couple should be thrown out for totally botching the artwork. 

There's more to finding a good digitizer though, good customer service is paramount and (sorry if this offends anyone) I need my customer servcie contact to speak fluent english. Even more important is machine friendliness. Did these all perform well on the machine? How did the stitch counts compare? I also know one of your stipulations was that the S had to be a satin stitch. How were the underlays constructed in order to maintain the integrity after being removed from the hoop? Several of them looked like point and click auto digitizing too. Nothing wrong with that in some cases.

I didn't submit a design since I don't digitize for others but I've been digitizing long enough to have actually punched tape. From just looking at the pics, I'd have to say there is one clear winner. It sure would be nice to have contact info for the entries...


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## astitchinthyme (Nov 16, 2009)

don't keep us in suspense, who do YOU think is the winner. Im not going to be offended when it's not me, I just would like to know your reasons so I can look and learn. I don't quite go back to punching but I did start with Proel which was a pain to use.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I hate to mention names since I'm basing it on a JPG of the sewouts on what looks to be felt. But since you asked I'd have to say Wickid.

I eliminated the ones that I thought totally blew the artwork. Theres no excuse for skipping satin outlines or not at least attempting the gradients.

I would like to see the "S" in a different color that shows up better in a JPG. The instructions were explicit that it had to be a satin stitch and that looked to really push it.

But in the sewout from Wickid, the densities looked perfect and the gradient is as good as I've seen on such a small area - awesome work! The parallel lines were dead on also, but some of those that weren't could have been from hooping.

I'd really like to see the actual stitch files for a few of these. There's some good work there.

And in all fairness, my "punching" was very limited. I've been a happy Wilcom user for the last maybe 15 years? 

On your sewout I couldn't figure out the harsh line in the middle of the gradient. What happened there? The gradient looked good except for that. What program are you using now?




astitchinthyme said:


> don't keep us in suspense, who do YOU think is the winner. Im not going to be offended when it's not me, I just would like to know your reasons so I can look and learn. I don't quite go back to punching but I did start with Proel which was a pain to use.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Wicked is that: Digitizing service for the embroidery industry worldwide. Stock designs available. Digitize designs for most commercial embroidery formats. Corporate logos to fashion embroidery. Free consultations.
The wicked stitch of the east?


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## oneill (Mar 6, 2008)

Well I'm glad to see so many people taking the time to stop in and look around the thread. I wanted to rank, but who am I. It would just be my own opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not here to offend anyone, I figure the best thing to do is sew them out and let people see for themselves. I know the photos aren't the greatest, but the real point here was to show how different the same design can be digitized. Ultimately I wanted to give info on every design and about every digitizer, however the task became greater than expected to gather all that information and some people didn't want to take on contract digitizing. So instead I asked the people who participated to add a thread on who they are and what logo is theirs. The .pdf with the names just correlates the design to the digitizer's first name. Unfortunately I'm a one man shop and 4 pallets of hoodies just showed up yesterday, so I have some work ahead of me. I will send files to anyone interested just give me some time to respond. Thanks again for everyone participating and even leaving feedback. 

PS Wicked is the correct link above, In my opinion they ranked 3rd in my original TEST out of 4. They were one of the ones that used a fill stitch on the S, but they still did a decent job. It will always come down to personal preferences.

Again I hope that people find this thread useful, I'm sorry I wasn't able to complete the task entirely the way I envisioned it, time = money and when you are a one man band you only have so much time to spend. Thanks.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

You did a great job!
So don't apologize !


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

oneill said:


> Well I'm glad to see so many people taking the time to stop in and look around the thread. I wanted to rank, but who am I. It would just be my own opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not here to offend anyone, I figure the best thing to do is sew them out and let people see for themselves. I know the photos aren't the greatest, but the real point here was to show how different the same design can be digitized. Ultimately I wanted to give info on every design and about every digitizer, however the task became greater than expected to gather all that information and some people didn't want to take on contract digitizing. So instead I asked the people who participated to add a thread on who they are and what logo is theirs. The .pdf with the names just correlates the design to the digitizer's first name. Unfortunately I'm a one man shop and 4 pallets of hoodies just showed up yesterday, so I have some work ahead of me. I will send files to anyone interested just give me some time to respond. Thanks again for everyone participating and even leaving feedback.
> 
> PS Wicked is the correct link above, In my opinion they ranked 3rd in my original TEST out of 4. They were one of the ones that used a fill stitch on the S, but they still did a decent job. It will always come down to personal preferences.
> 
> Again I hope that people find this thread useful, I'm sorry I wasn't able to complete the task entirely the way I envisioned it, time = money and when you are a one man band you only have so much time to spend. Thanks.



Thanks Andrew.... great job though.

Perhaps the readers can post their individual ranking of their top 5??

and at the same time you can upload all the dst files on the forum so the readers can sample the designs of the digitisers they see highly recommended here to see the quality themselves.

When you are less busy I would like to know your top 5 listing though.....

Rgds,
Rish


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Agreed, absolutely no need to apologize. You did a great job and as always, business comes first! Get those hoodies going...

The folks that submitted the designs could always step up with details on why they did what they did. And show their sewouts of their designs? You digitizers do sewout every design, right?

The satin stitch S has me wondering why you stipulated that knowing the stitches would be much too long? Had a customer asked us for that, we would have refused. The only way we'd do that long a satin would be with puffy foam on something like a cap that would not relax out of the hoop. Just curious?

Thanks again for the hard work!



Prinsz said:


> You did a great job!
> So don't apologize !


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Liberty said:


> The satin stitch S has me wondering why you stipulated that knowing the stitches would be much too long? Had a customer asked us for that, we would have refused. The only way we'd do that long a satin would be with puffy foam on something like a cap that would not relax out of the hoop. Just curious?
> 
> .....................


 
If you are doing a design or lettering that is "Ceremonial"... meaning it's not to be worn every day and laundered haphazardly, it's OK to do long satin(to a point). The trick in digitizing this is to know what happens on the machine, the fabric, and in the use of the garment, so that you can stabilize and compensate... in that you will have a quality sewout that will last. Part of our job as digitizers is to do what the customer wants AND to engineer it to what they need. If a customer gives you something that is not possible or unwise, educate them then change it. A TEST like this really shows how "simple" can be made excellent by paying attention to very small details.

Ian


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## embroiderypatch (Apr 7, 2010)

> It is interesting to see the different interpretations, especially the gradient fills. A couple should be thrown out for totally botching the artwork.


Well our design is Donna on page 6. We are probably the one Liberty so "helpfully" says "should be thrown out". My digitizer just started digitizing 3 months ago. Until then, he had never seen an embroidery machine. I encouraged him to do the TEST. This way he would get CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. So with that being said, if we could get just that, constructive feedback. After reading these posts, he realzied the E should have been gradient fill and has been working with that.

His right T is different, but for some reason when he converted the PDF file to a jpg so he could trace in the program, this is what he got. Yes, he should have rechecked the original design.

We do not do contract digitizing, yet. I have been embroidering for years and I know poor digitizing the minute the needle hits the fabric. I am always looking for a good digitizer and have wasted a lot of money trying to find one. My digitizer knows he has some practicing to do before he branches off to contract digitizing. The reason I am patient, my digitizer is also my son.

Thank you
Donna


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Donna, I wouldn't take Marks comment with much discouragement. I would commend you for encourging your son to enter. The best way to get better, is to stick you neck out there.... try and see what improvements you can shoot for, and grow over time. If your son would like to learn the craft, join forums like this and user groups with other people that use the same software and equipment so that he will start to learn the subtlties of the craft. Find a digitizer that uses the same brand of software that you use and get native files, so that you can pick their brains on how to make your software work for you. Just remember, It's the driver, not the car. 

Ian


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Yea, don't take my comments too seriously, I'm the grumpy old guy sometimes. (OK, most of the time, well, when I'm awake anyway...)

Seriously though, you are taking the right approach. Digitizing CORRECTLY is a near art form and there's just too much garbage digitizing around these days. The proliferation of auto digitizing has been a plus but also a huge negative. It can be a great tool but is also a crutch for some just trying to make a buck.

One of the best things you can do to learn is to take apart nice designs. If you notice a design that runs great on fleece, take it apart and analyze the densities and underlays. You can also punch a design then sew it on different materials to see what happens to pull comp and registration. Most of all you ahve to set aside time to experiment and practice...


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## ruaokie2 (Feb 19, 2010)

I think it is important to know how long they have been digitizing, I am Kim and mine is the one without the outline on E havent been doing this very long but enjoy it and will get better with practice. Got so caught up in the gradient that just forgot to go back and do the outline.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

zoom_monster said:


> If you are doing a design or lettering that is "Ceremonial"... meaning it's not to be worn every day and laundered haphazardly, it's OK to do long satin(to a point). The trick in digitizing this is to know what happens on the machine, the fabric, and in the use of the garment, so that you can stabilize and compensate... in that you will have a quality sewout that will last. Part of our job as digitizers is to do what the customer wants AND to engineer it to what they need. If a customer gives you something that is not possible or unwise, educate them then change it. A TEST like this really shows how "simple" can be made excellent by paying attention to very small details.
> 
> Ian


Ian what an awsome gradient(fountainfill) you made there
The one on the first page ( you snet probably) is a little different or? I lke this one in blue the s is better to see. and the gradient looks great man!


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Prinsz said:


> Ian what an awsome gradient(fountainfill) you made there
> The one on the first page ( you snet probably) is a little different or? I lke this one in blue the s is better to see. and the gradient looks great man!


Rene,
The one in the picture is a test sew-out from before I submitted my file. I'll often sew out parts in different colors in order to highlight imperfections. I did tweak a few things on the circles to adjust for roundness and where the outlines meshed with elements. Thanks for the compliment on the gradiation. I like to do 3 color blends, but it does make it more dificult to find just the right choice for the mid color.
Ian


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Great job!


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