# Are rough feeling prints normal for plastisol?



## marlo45 (Oct 4, 2007)

Hi guys,

Just did my first test prints and i noticed that although the prints aren't absolutely terrible, they have a coarse feel. Is this normal for plastisol inks or is there a way to get really smooth prints? I have seen many prints that feel as heavy as plastisol but are very smooth to the touch.

I suspect i may have had too much off contact, but i'm not sure if that's the cause.

If the off contact isn't the problem, then from what i understand, water based inks may be the most desirable alternative. However, the problem of inks drying up in the screen has me worried especially since i'm going to be a little/lot slower than an experienced printer.

I am using International Coatings plastisol inks. 

Please advise.


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## candimantint (Jul 11, 2007)

what colors did u print, did u dry them with heat gun or flash dryer?


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## authenticboricua (Oct 23, 2007)

Next time you try to add a soft hand additive or a higher mesh for a softer hand.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Why dont you just worry about the design itself. I hear so much bs about the hand and feel like the actual customer gives a crap. If you have great designs the public will wear it period. If your label has solid designs they will buy it. It really gets to be too involved in itself...all you have to do is walk through the mall and see what sells.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I hear so much bs about the hand and feel like the actual customer gives a crap.


Strange as it sounds, some people have standards: both customers and sellers.


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## authenticboricua (Oct 23, 2007)

Solmu said:


> Strange as it sounds, some people have standards: both customers and sellers.


agreed. I have 3 different lines. A high end boutique line, this line and mass market line.

Each market demands something unique.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Hey David.....

I hear what you are saying and agree to a point. It is very easy to focus so hard on the minutia that you miss the bigger picture.

But, that being said, I do believe there is a range of "acceptability" that varies from market to market.

A similar, but not exact comparison, is the beautiful color that the F&M Expressions transfers produce that customers love........until they feel how stiff and plasticy they are. More often than not, that overrides the beauty of the transfer.

JMO....


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Solmu said:


> Strange as it sounds, some people have standards: both customers and sellers.


It doesnt sound strange and I deserved the obvious slap. Up late and wound up after watching an interesting film. The production standards are far and wide from digital transfers, transfer vinyl to discharge screen work. The customers standards are as diverse as the market but narrowed a bit in the context of t-shirt.
I think the average teenager (generally the largest tee market but by no means the only tee market) will buy whats available and marketed to them regardless of production values. If its trendy they will buy it 15$ -50$ not so much because its better quality but the illusion that its better quality. Marketing your gear no matter how you produce it is probably more important than the hand of a print or print method.

As producers of apparel we all have different standards. We know the softest printing techs, the softest blanks, best washability, color fastness etc. The info is all over this forum. As a teen at the local mall buying a t-shirt, the majority I dont think really care. I dont think their standards are set by you and I...their standards are set by their peers and marketing. The illusion is king not the hand of a print.

You can have a mall kiosk at Christmas time selling what you know is the most advanced, softest hand, eco friendly garment on the planet. 

Right next to you is a kiosk with a c88 printing photos on ironall paper and heatpressing .89 cent gilden tees.

Two examples of different standards from the production end. What are the consumers standards, needs, wants? I think that is a question more relevant than the hand of a print.


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## marlo45 (Oct 4, 2007)

candimantint said:


> what colors did u print, did u dry them with heat gun or flash dryer?


Black and white. I dried with a flash dryer. The white was surprisingly smooth, however, i need 3 passes to make it 100% opaque (i'm using International Coatings or Ryonet white).


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## marlo45 (Oct 4, 2007)

authenticboricua said:


> Next time you try to add a soft hand additive or a higher mesh for a softer hand.


Where can i get this? And does it apply to any plastisol ink?


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

marlo45 said:


> Black and white. I dried with a flash dryer. The white was surprisingly smooth, however, i need 3 passes to make it 100% opaque (i'm using International Coatings or Ryonet white).


i've found that the international coatings' black can take a pretty aggressive cutting pass to clear the screen, especially on the higher mesh. if the white's coming out smooth, i'd check for the black clearing the screen completely. 

also a print flash print on the white could give better results than a print flood print flood print. 

and if you're not using a flash than you may be pulling up white ink when you print the black, leaving a rough texture.

-also the softhand clear additive will reduce the opacity of your white.


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## marlo45 (Oct 4, 2007)

Thanks for the responses everyone!



darwinchristian said:


> i've found that the international coatings' black can take a pretty aggressive cutting pass to clear the screen, especially on the higher mesh. if the white's coming out smooth, i'd check for the black clearing the screen completely.
> 
> also a print flash print on the white could give better results than a print flood print flood print.
> 
> ...


I am doing a print flash print with the white. I would say the ink deposit is just about the same as the black ink, however, the black garment somehow peeps through until a 3rd pass. 

As for the black ink, i'll be trying different colors today to compare the hand. I may be expecting too much from plastisol??? I may eventually try water based inks, though not now.


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## candimantint (Jul 11, 2007)

are you looking to make soft prints or to make your prints smooth and not rough. i use the ryonet white and icc colors, i had that problem also. after i cure each shirt i got back and press the shirt with my press and teflon sheet. some people may not like doing that but everyone who buys my shirts loves them. i even have people bring me shirts printed from other screen printers and ask me to press them. im still new but im learning all i can from the people on this forum.


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## marlo45 (Oct 4, 2007)

Rene, i use the same inks as you do. So, i will try pressing them after they are cured. If the customers will love it, then that's what i want.

Thanks for the useful info.


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## D3c0Y (Oct 23, 2007)

candimantint said:


> are you looking to make soft prints or to make your prints smooth and not rough. i use the ryonet white and icc colors, i had that problem also. after i cure each shirt i got back and press the shirt with my press and teflon sheet. some people may not like doing that but everyone who buys my shirts loves them. i even have people bring me shirts printed from other screen printers and ask me to press them. im still new but im learning all i can from the people on this forum.


I used that same method when I had the IC inks until I realized that I wasn't stirring my inks well. 

Use a power drill and a quart size mixing attachment (Lowes or Home Depot $3.98), mix it until it's smooth like yogurt (hope that makes sense) that should help the workability of the inks.

When I switched to Union and Wilflex I didn't have a problem with white or any inks being rough.


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## candimantint (Jul 11, 2007)

so mixing them until they are smooth helps with how they feel when printed. i was having so much trouble thos week with white, the shirt kept sticking to the screen and making my registration impossible, does the humidity have something to do with it, south texas its still in the 80s.


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

candimantint said:


> the shirt kept sticking to the screen and making my registration impossible, does the humidity have something to do with it, south texas its still in the 80s.


shouldn't affect the shirt sticking to the screen. use a bit more pallet tack. or, use pallet tack, a spray or spreadable adhesive that keeps the garment/ printable stuck to the printing surface or "platen" in most cases.


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## adawg2252 (Dec 12, 2007)

marlo45 said:


> Where can i get this? And does it apply to any plastisol ink?


It applies ONLY to plastisol ink.

You should look online for these. Most screen print suppliers sell them. The place I go to has the Wilflex brand and has a few different options but they are all a little different.

Soft Hand Clear would be the one you want in Wilflex's brand. I'm not sure what other brands call theirs.

You intermix them (percentages vary from additive to additive) and add more until you get what you want.

Some you have to be careful with because they can change the opacity of the ink which will result in more and more passes, defeating the point.


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## marlo45 (Oct 4, 2007)

Well, guys, i think i'm not doing too bad. The texture of my prints are getting better as my stroke gets better. I still think the black ink needs to be either stirred/mixed thoroughly to smoothen it's texture, but i think the better my technique gets, the better results i'm seeing.

As for the comments above about "white inks sticking to the screen", i had that problem when my off contact was either too much or not enough, seems like the double quarters rule may be gospel, especially with white inks. I haven't had great results without good off contact. Also, slowly passing your squeegee at a low angle needs to be followed by a quick, firm pressing stroke at a nearly 90 degree angle, that works for me .

Thanks again guys for helping out!


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## kpWeb (Mar 23, 2008)

D3c0Y said:


> I used that same method when I had the IC inks until I realized that I wasn't stirring my inks well.
> 
> Use a power drill and a quart size mixing attachment (Lowes or Home Depot $3.98), mix it until it's smooth like yogurt (hope that makes sense) that should help the workability of the inks.
> 
> When I switched to Union and Wilflex I didn't have a problem with white or any inks being rough.


Hello Franklin,
I'm having hard time to print white ink on dark garment as well. I tried IC white, 12 LF, 711 LB, 7031 LF, and Ryonet, and got very rough surface.

I stirred 7031 Ultra White with a power drill like you mentioned but didn't see much difference on garment.

How long is it supposed to be? I mixed it for 2-3 min. with kind of low speed, and ink didn't become smooth as yogurt.

Could you kindly tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thank you in advance.


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

kpWeb said:


> Could you kindly tell me what I'm doing wrong?


White ink surely has to be stirred well, and you will know when you have stirred it so much that you couldn't possibly achieve a smoother consistency. That's where you want to be.

Printing whites on darks is more difficult than other inks because of this consistency. The answer almost always lies in your technique.

I suggest pushing the squeegee rather than pulling, and when you push, keep it as close to a 90 degree angle as possible. It is with this technique that i have been able to print a good layer of white without the need for a second cutting pass. (not every time, but more often than not.) 

keep your platens warm. White ink behaves better when you're 2 dozen shirts into a run. it's warmer and creamier. just don't over-cure.

hope this helps.

derek


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## kpWeb (Mar 23, 2008)

darwinchristian said:


> hope this helps.
> 
> derek


Hi derek,
Yes, it helps.

I'm a newbie so I don't have technique but leaning.
I will try warm platens tip without over-curing as you say.

But can you tell me why pushing gives better layer than pulling?
I know some people do that but I couldn't figure out what makes it different.

Also, my mixing method, mix it with a power drill on slow for 2-3 min., seems right to you?

Thank you for your help.


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

it's pretty much all about what works for you. 

i stir the top layer of ink in the bucket with a popsicle stick and then print a few times on test pellons in order to avoid messing up a drill bit. works every time.

i push, rather than pull, because that's the way i've always done it and it works best for me. 

you may find that something else entirely works best for you.

i offer only my humble suggestions.

good luck.

derek


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