# Troubleshooting: Is it my plotter or my media?



## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

Hello,

I've been having a heck of a time working with vinyl and small details. I have searched the forum and found that other people are able to print fine details on Thermoflex and weed them without issue. I simply do not have that type of luck.

My design (.AI) file and a sample JPEG of what it would look like are located here:

http://my.splash-x.com/globe.zip

I'm trying to plot this at 4 inches in height using Flexi Sign. The globe itself plots great except for the round outline which can easily be corrected.

My problem is the lettering simply wants to peel off the design no matter what settings I use. I replaced the blade on my plotter not too long ago. It is almost as if the letters arn't 100% cut.


So, I'm left thinking one of three things (or a combo)

1.) Thermoflex Plus is too difficult to weed such a small design but based on the posts of others here I think that it can infact do small detailed designs.

2.) My plotter is a POS, it is something that I got off eBay maybe 4 years about and has worked great on larger designs but seems to let me down on small details. 

3.) Perhaps my design blows and when I converted the Text to Outline in Illustrator it doesn't create enough points.



I'm willing to pay someone by PaPal for the materials they use to assist me in confirming that my design will print on their plotter using their media. I just need to figure out what direction I need to go. If I need a better plotter then thats something I'll have to deal with. If it is a media problem I'll have to rethink how I'm going to print this design. And if it is a design issue I'm open to suggestions on how to fix it.


I appreciate any help guys!


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Cut fine here......Using a GraphTec CE5000.

I had a "little" problem with a couple .'s on the i's but all in all it wasn't too bad. 

That was cut with Thermoflex at 4" tall.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

theflowerboxx, Do you have a PayPal account, I'm happy to reimburse you for the cost of the Vinyl for helping me out!


I think that proves that my plotter is the cause. I'll change the blade, toy with the depth of the blade and down force and see if I can get it to cut properly.


If that fails I may need to contract out the plotting and pay for the materials/time and I'll weed it myself. 


Anyone know of any free trial software that can plot an .AI file to see if maybe it is my version of Flexi, I think I have 7.5.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Splash-X said:


> theflowerboxx, Do you have a PayPal account, I'm happy to reimburse you for the cost of the Vinyl for helping me out!
> 
> 
> I think that proves that my plotter is the cause. I'll change the blade, toy with the depth of the blade and down force and see if I can get it to cut properly.
> ...


You don't owe me a penny. I'm glad to help out. Honestly I don't believe it's your software, I'd say it's your cutter. Try changing the blade and slow down the speed and see what happens.


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## [email protected] (Aug 11, 2009)

i have a chinese cutter i wil try it tomorrow and let you know. download coreldraw x4 and signtools 3 both are available as demos.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

David,

That was the first thing In tried, slowed it down to 100MS (slow as she will go), cut it with 120G of force and the letters were all like 95% cut. I'll change the blade, try to increase the force and see what happens but I'm betting that this budget cutter just wasn't meant to cut such fine details.



Chris,

I would appreciate hearing any feedback you can give too. Thanks for the software info, I'll see what I can get. 




I'm trying to explore all of my options before I jump in to a solution like buying a new cutter. I got the cutter on eBay new from a supplier probably in China for a really good price. It doesn't have a brand on it and came with Flexi Starter 7.5 Desay Edition. I've been very happy with it overall but when it comes to fine lettering it sucks. You get what you pay for I guess.

I have to wonder if a different budget cutter like a US Cutter might perform better even though it too is a budget cutter.


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## texasmoma (Jul 12, 2009)

i tried few letters and they cut ok.
you need to SLOW DOWN your cutting speed... and...
LIGHTEN the cutting pressure.....
i used USCutter laserpoint 24" (little dull blade)...

try again.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

Sam,

100MS is as slow as the cutter goes, which is VERY slow. As far as the cutting force, is there a suggestion on how much force to use? I'll try reducing the force to see if that improves things.


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## sk8ter4life (Aug 10, 2006)

hmm. I think its mainly pressure + speed. Thermoflex is thin, so I think it cuts small details well. Sometimes it may take a few tries before getting the right pressure/speed combo.


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## gerry (Oct 4, 2006)

you may have offset or overcut issues. If you adjust your offset or overcut it may help the blade complete the cut.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

I haven't had a chance to toy with it again. I sent the files to a friend who has a US Cutter and he hasn't gotten around to testing it either. I had a few larger orders that I was working on to clear them out and I hope to get back to my issue again tonight.

I'll try adjusting it so there is less force and see if that improves and then try switching the blade and varying the force.


*Sk8ther4life*, what brand/model cutter do you use?

*Gerry*, while this is possible wouldn't this also be affecting my other designs too? I have no problem plotting other designs just not very small designs. From my limited knowledge on the settings, those settings are configured on the software, correct?

I have a Master XY 300 plotter. Finding information is difficult on the settings and the manual is a joke.


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## gerry (Oct 4, 2006)

I have the same problems with small detail with thermoflex, If you can find those settings im sure would fix it.
yes it should be in the software or on your cutter.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm still not having any luck. Changing the blade seemed to give me sharper cuts but the same issue remains with weeding. The letters are peeling off as if not fully cut.

There are no settings on the cutter itself, period. 

I checked inside of Flexi Sign and there are some settings for the number of passes to perform. Setting this to "2" passes actually made things worse.

I've toyed with less downforce, more downforce, etc.


The cutter is a Master XY 380P. I'm using a 45* blade as suggested for use with this series cutter and Thermoflex.


Any other suggestions?


I'm considering switching to maybe a Graphtec CC330L-20 or CE5000-60. I have to wonder if the CC330L can handle the small details or if I need to larger CE5000.


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## DecalGuy (Nov 26, 2007)

Splash-X said:


> I'm still not having any luck. Changing the blade seemed to give me sharper cuts but the same issue remains with weeding. The letters are peeling off as if not fully cut.
> 
> There are no settings on the cutter itself, period.
> 
> ...


I have a Master xy-380p with Flexi never had the problem you are having but I use a 60* blade and offset of .28 . I cut .25 letter's in thermoflex all the time but you have to choose certain fonts not all will cut smoothly. You might try converting stroke to outline then zooming in to see if the font is actually all one peice...some aren't. In Flexi 8.5 my offset is .20 with an overcut of .12 they overcut is very nice and I don't know if any other software has it.

Mike


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm using Flexi Starter 7.6. I'm not seeing the settings for "offset". There are no help files with my install (of course). A search on Goolge for Flexi 7.6 offset doesn't turn anything up that shows where the offset setting is.


Don't get me wrong, the plotter has treated me well for the jobs I've done (except when you send large files or large quantities, then it decides to slice through all of your work at its leisure).


Can you tell me where in Flexi 8 you're setting the offset and overcut? I'll see if I can find the same settings in my version.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

I should also clarify, the font is Myriad Pro. I don't think this is a font issue as theflowerboxx was able to cut the print just fine.


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## DecalGuy (Nov 26, 2007)

Hi Nick,

Bring up "Production Manager" click on "setup" then "Setup Properties" then "Job Defaults" then click on the knife Icon you should now be at a screen like below:


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

Mike,

Ok, got the offset configured now thanks to you. How about your overcut, where was that setting? Sorry for my ignorance.

Thanks

-Nick


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

I upped the offset to .025 from the .020 default as per your pictureto give it a shot and behold the letters fully cut and were weedable. 

There is clearly a difference between the image that theflowerboxx uploaded and what my plotter cut. The letters on my cut had what I can best describe as a pirate curve to them. Each letter had small arcs in the cuts. I'll replot on black later today, scan and upload for a compairison.


I do appreciate everyones help on this issuse! I'm still working through it so please don't abandon me yet


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## DecalGuy (Nov 26, 2007)

Hi Nick,

The overcut option is just in 8.5 that I know of the screen shot was of 7.6.

If your letters are deformed try going .021 then cut then .022 until it cuts nice and clean.

Mike


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

I wish Flexi offered a trial version of the software so I could evaluate it before making the investment. Sure, $200 for the Flexi 8.x starter is only $200 but thats $200 possibly going towards a new plotter which really is a big deal.

I'll toy with my version some more and see what I can figure out.


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## cbell442 (Oct 20, 2008)

Did you ever figure out what force to use? I'm self-taught on the cutter & have found speed & force to use by trial & error, but I don't know if what I use is the best. Is the force number the same on all cutters or does it vary? I found that using 190 force is what works with Thermoflex. 

I don't know what offset & overcut are, so obviously, I haven't changed any of these settings. Maybe I could reduce the force with a change to these settings. Could someone explain what these setting do?

Thanks.


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## Splash-X (Sep 7, 2008)

cbell442,

I notice you're form Novi, I'm orginally from the Canton / Westland area!

To answer your question, the force depends on how you install the blade. If the blade is set in the holder shallower it takes greater force.

Before I adjusted the blade I was using 120g of force and not I'm using 40-70g depending on how detailed I'm cutting.

Keep in mind that I adjusted the blade so I can't say if it was just that alone.

The biggest advice I received was to increase the offset which helped increase the detailed cuts.

I did not solve the issue 100% as I have not completed these shirts. I've decided that with the quantity of shirts (50) in this run and the amount of weeding that would be required, I'm going to wait until i get my supplies for screen printing (maybe a week or two away). 


-Nick


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## cbell442 (Oct 20, 2008)

You said you adjusted your blade. Is it sticking out more or less? Would moving it out more decrease the force?

Can you explain what offset is, what it does, & what increasing it vs. decreasing it does? To me, offset would mean that the cutter would cut the graphic larger or smaller, depending upon whether it was increased or decreased, but maybe that isn't right.

Sorry for all of the questions, but I have no training on the cutter & am trying to get the best usage out of it.


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## gerry (Oct 4, 2006)

Here is a response I got when I asked here on the forums.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t94435.html

Hope it helps.


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