# Anyone used a laser cutter for templates



## OnTheSand (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm thinking of getting in to the rhinestone transfer and template making, i was wondering if anyone was cutting templates for rhinestone with a laser cutter and what were the results?


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

My template stock for rhinestones has PVC in it and I was told that PVC will screw the lens up and corrode the laser


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

You can use styrene engraving material such as Rowmark to make stencils. They work great and are reusable almost forever.

It is the "C" in PVC that is bad. Burning PVC plastic gives off chlorine gas which is very damaging/corrosive to some of the metals in laser engravers.


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

Glenn
How does the transfer film work with the styrene engraving material?


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

Glenn, which Rowmark product are you referring to? I have a laser also and am interested in this process.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

I use whatever unsellable rowmark we have had forever. We have an inventory of about 100 different colors, thicknesses, & types (lasermax, lasermark, ada, reversibles, etc.. We make trophys & awards so there is always some color you bought 3 years ago for some job that there is still 3 sheets left. 

raster engrave the holes to the depth you desire for the stones.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

jiarby said:


> I use whatever unsellable rowmark we have had forever. We have an inventory of about 100 different colors, thicknesses, & types (lasermax, lasermark, ada, reversibles, etc.. We make trophys & awards so there is always some color you bought 3 years ago for some job that there is still 3 sheets left.
> 
> raster engrave the holes to the depth you desire for the stones.


Yep, OK. I got lots of leftovers etc. I was originally thinking vector, but after I looked at the process I figured out it would need to be rastered. I bet wood would work well also. Might be a little easier to engrave to that depth.


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## jrsamwel (Apr 28, 2009)

IMO 2mm acrylic glass will work.


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

jrsamwel said:


> IMO 2mm acrylic glass will work.


How are you going to transfer stones to garment? I think the clear transfer film for heat transfer is to sticky for that template stock your wanting to use. My template stock is made from sand blast stock, but has PVC in it. Not good for lasers


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

wwtc82 said:


> How are you going to transfer stones to garment? I think the clear transfer film for heat transfer is to sticky for that template stock your wanting to use. My template stock is made from sand blast stock, but has PVC in it. Not good for lasers


Are you saying that the transfer tape product that is sold for this purpose is too sticky to use on acrylic? Acrylic is not the only option by any means. I don't see where your coming from by saying that sandblast mask would be a better alternative in that respect..explain please. I was thinking that mat board would work for a laser cut template.


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

LB said:


> Are you saying that the transfer tape product that is sold for this purpose is too sticky to use on acrylic? Acrylic is not the only option by any means. I don't see where your coming from by saying that sandblast mask would be a better alternative in that respect..explain please. I was thinking that mat board would work for a laser cut template.


I just think heat transfer tape is to sticky for acrylic and and mat board is a paper product so thats not going to last for long term and this has nothing to do with a laser. It was to do with transferring stones to garments. How about this, the backing from paper from vinyl. The kind that you make window graphics from. We just throw it away. Now we can recycle it into rhinestone templates . The transfer tape will release from it very well. And if you don't have a vinyl cutter, you could get some from your local sign shop for free i'm sure, being they throw it away.


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## jrsamwel (Apr 28, 2009)

wwtc82 said:


> How are you going to transfer stones to garment? I think the clear transfer film for heat transfer is to sticky for that template stock your wanting to use. My template stock is made from sand blast stock, but has PVC in it. Not good for lasers


 
Acrylic glass cut on laser is for template, put stones and brush it then stick the transfering tape, remove it and put on garments.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

Willy, I have a cutter and generate release liner that we toss. I was just thinking the template needed to be thicker than than that. I have not done this before, so I am looking for a way to utilize my equipment. I am thinking like Jay about the 2mm acrylic. It might be that the release liner could be bonded to the acrylic and then either engraved or vector cut for the template. I am thinking -drop the stones in the holes and cover with the tape, then pick them up as the transfer.
What are other people using to make templates from? I saw some on e-bay but they did not say anything about the thickness etc.


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## jrsamwel (Apr 28, 2009)

I have cutter also doing templates using sign vinyl and placing stones manually using tweezer, but I'm tired of it.
Just preparing all my design and send it to laser cutter outside for few bucks.( friend working on model making company)


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

jrsamwel said:


> I have cutter also doing templates using sign vinyl and placing stones manually using tweezer, but I'm tired of it.
> Just preparing all my design and send it to laser cutter outside for few bucks.( friend working on model making company)


Jay, what is he using to make the template? 2mm acrylic as you suggested? Is he cutting out the hole for the stone or just engraving it part of the way through the material?


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

the engraved rowmark becomes sorta like screens (for printing)... one template for each different stone/color. The transfer tape is to lift them off the template. You need a jig to hold the transfer tape & templates so registration is good (if doing multi-color or multi size transfers)


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm going to order some stones and some tape and figure out my own methodology. Thanks for the replies.


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## jrsamwel (Apr 28, 2009)

LB said:


> Jay, what is he using to make the template? 2mm acrylic as you suggested? Is he cutting out the hole for the stone or just engraving it part of the way through the material?


Thanks for this question that ends up me to measure the standard 10ss stone thickness which i got 1.2mm, so using 2mm acrylic and cutting it all will not work. 1mm will be fine and .2 is enough space for transfering tape to grab the stones.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

Jay, yes, I suspected that the template material would be dependent on the size (height) of the stones. I may just need to make each template for the sizes used in the design.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

when making a template with a laser from rigid plastic stock (acrylic or rowmark) you would not cut through the material like you do with a plotter and sandblast film. You would raster engrave to whatever depth you need so the stone sticks up enough for the tape to grab.


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## jrsamwel (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks guys for the replies,I'll keep you update when my template came and tested.


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

jiarby said:


> the engraved rowmark becomes sorta like screens (for printing)... one template for each different stone/color. The transfer tape is to lift them off the template. You need a jig to hold the transfer tape & templates so registration is good (if doing multi-color or multi size transfers)


If I have a design thats not to complicated with different size stones and different colors, I use cardboard to cover up holes that I don't want stones in. I also do the large stones first


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## BML Builder (Jul 8, 2008)

We have used oilboard to make our templates with the laser. We cut the holes a little bigger than the sizes of the stones and then glue the oilboard to a piece of card stock, brush the stones in the holes, use transfer tape to pick up the stones and go. If we have different colors of stones you can print the colored picture on the card stock before you glue the oilboard to it and then you know what colors to put in each hole.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

BML Builder said:


> We have used oilboard to make our templates with the laser. We cut the holes a little bigger than the sizes of the stones and then glue the oilboard to a piece of card stock, brush the stones in the holes, use transfer tape to pick up the stones and go. If we have different colors of stones you can print the colored picture on the card stock before you glue the oilboard to it and then you know what colors to put in each hole.


So, your vector cutting all the way through the board and then sticking it to a backer. I came up with the idea of cutting them out of Phototex. Don't know if it's thick enough. Phototex is like a fabric material with adhesive on the back and is removable and replacable. It's about a $1.00 a sq ft.


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

BML Builder said:


> We have used oilboard to make our templates with the laser. We cut the holes a little bigger than the sizes of the stones and then glue the oilboard to a piece of card stock, brush the stones in the holes, use transfer tape to pick up the stones and go. If we have different colors of stones you can print the colored picture on the card stock before you glue the oilboard to it and then you know what colors to put in each hole.


I use a felt tip pen and color hole for that stone color. I like the oilboard idea. Now I need to find someone in my area that has a laser


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

wwtc82 said:


> I use a felt tip pen and color hole for that stone color. I like the oilboard idea. Now I need to find someone in my area that has a laser


Where are you Willy? I know people all over that have lasers.


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## BML Builder (Jul 8, 2008)

LB said:


> So, your vector cutting all the way through the board and then sticking it to a backer. I came up with the idea of cutting them out of Phototex. Don't know if it's thick enough. Phototex is like a fabric material with adhesive on the back and is removable and replacable. It's about a $1.00 a sq ft.


Yes, we vector cut all the way through it. How thick is the Phototex? The oilboard is not that thick but it is thick enough to let the stones sit down in when attached to a backer board. Having the adhesive on the back would make it easy to stick without having to spray adhesive. I know I read where some people are using the flock with adhesive, they seem to like it. I haven't tried that though.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

BML Builder said:


> Yes, we vector cut all the way through it. How thick is the Phototex? The oilboard is not that thick but it is thick enough to let the stones sit down in when attached to a backer board. Having the adhesive on the back would make it easy to stick without having to spray adhesive. I know I read where some people are using the flock with adhesive, they seem to like it. I haven't tried that though.


Oilboard is .015 thick, Phototex is .013 without the release liner. It more than likely will work OK. One nice thing about Phototex is that you could adhere it directly to your desk or work surface, then remove it. Stick it back on something to store it and use it over and over like that. I cut it at 100% speed, 100 power and abt 600 frequency.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

for those wondering about using the transfer tape to pick up stones from Rowmark material...I have used Rowmark with my Roland EGX 350 and then used the normal transfer tape without any problems


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

charles95405 said:


> for those wondering about using the transfer tape to pick up stones from Rowmark material...I have used Rowmark with my Roland EGX 350 and then used the normal transfer tape without any problems


Thanks Charles


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## wwtc82 (Oct 29, 2009)

LB said:


> Where are you Willy? I know people all over that have lasers.


Larry
I'm in Surprise Arizona.
What is Phototex? Never heard of it.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

wwtc82 said:


> Larry
> I'm in Surprise Arizona.
> What is Phototex? Never heard of it.


Phototex is a fabric faced printable media with a patented adhesive that makes it removable and replaceable up to 200 times. It's great for all kinds of different uses. Here is the link Photo Tex Group Inc.

I'll check in my laser engraving forum if there is someone close to you that would make some templates for you.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

I am about 60 miles SE of Suprise... almost in Florence!


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

Hi guys,

I'm also interested in making some rhinestone templates with my laser, but not sure which method to use. Here are the methods I've read about:

1)Embo tape or oilboard, double sided tape to a piece of chip board, with another piece of double sided tape. Then vector cur the design, and pull off the cover of the 2nd layer of double sided tape and use another piece of chipboard as the backer.

2)Rowmark acrylic with adhesive. Vector cut the holes, remove the protective cover of the adhesive and put on a piece of chipboard as the backer.

3)Rowmark acrylic and then raster engrave the holes to a certain depth with no other material.

I've never tried any of these methods, but am about to. Does anyone know which method works best with the transfer tape? I'm hoping to find a method where the stones sill stick easily, but the tape will be easy to remove from the top of the template.

Thanks!


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

option #3 is best, IMHO


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

I think any of these will work. This template cutting thing is not rocket science. I am leaning toward vector cutting something. If the template is made on a plotter (vinyl cutter) then it is cut all the way through the material (whatever it may be). I'm going to try it both ways and see which I like best.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

The thickness of the material is the difference. If you are vector cutting a rigid material with your laser you have to ensure that enough stone is poking up so the app tape can grab it. If you raster cut the holes then the substrate thickess does not matter. If you have a bunch of 3/16 or 1/4" acrylic then you can't vector it...

On a plotter the stencil material is pretty thin. For a 1-off design I'd use stencil mask & the plotter.. but for a design you use over and over a laser cut one will be more durable... although harder to make initially.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

I was thinking something like Rowmark Laser Lights. It is .004 thickness. I think the sand blast mask that is being used is thicker. The Laser Lights has an adhesive on it. What do you think?


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

LB...I haven't tried any of those methods yet, I'm still in the investigating phase of stencil creation. I have read that someone doing this currently is using 1/32 Rowmark ADA Alt Applique Value with Adhesive and vector cutting all the way through. Then they just use a backer board behind it.

I guess the key to any of these methods is to make sure the transfer tape is easy to remove from the substrate when picking up the stones. I'm going to have to try to find some "sample" packs and try the different methods until I find out what works for me. My ultimate goal is:

1)Material easy to work with...easy to remove with transfer tape when lifting the stones.
2)Rigid material so I can save my templates for re-use later in time
3)Less materials and labor for assembling the stencil...The single layer plastic with holes rastered down seams like an easy 1-piece solution, but I'm not sure how the cost of the material compares to the other methods.
4)I'm not too concerned with speed right not since my lasers not running 100%. I'm hoping that rastering a design will still be less than 10 mins for a 1sqft piece, but then again, I have no idea since I've never made a rhinestone patter so I don't know the timing.

Maybe this weekend, I'll take a peice of scrap plastic and make something....Does anyone have any premade templates they'd like to share?

I also, need to pick up some rhinestones and transfer tape. Do you think the type of transfer tape will depend on the method used?..For example, embo tape top vs acrylic top vs cutter material top?


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

Joseph:
I also have not made a template yet. However, I am learning a lot about it. I found the Winpcsign Pro 2010 demo yesterday. This would be an ideal software tool to use, as you can print the created designs directly to the laser. It is also a cutting program that can be used with a plotter ( I have both, but I am thinking the laser will be faster and cleaner,plus my Epilog is very accurate) Vector cutting those holes will be faster than raster engraving them. 
Yes, the 1/32" ada applique would be a good product for this purpose. That is .03 thick. Since the transfer tape is probably fairly low tack, I would not think it would be an issue with the plastics.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

yeah, lights are pretty thin, but still kinda plasticy.... Maybe MATES too.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

I looked at the Hartco thicknesses and I wonder which one is being used, 10mil, 25mil or 35mil?


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## CyberSultan (Aug 25, 2008)

25 mil is what I recommend and what I believe others are using (for those using Hartco). We have great success with the 25 mil (Hartco 425).


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

OK. 25mil is .025 thick. Laser Lights is .004(abt 4mil) and ADA alternative is .04 (per Rowmark specs). So, the ADA applique is probably the better choice. The difference between .025 and .04 is .015, a very small difference. It would also be a little stiffer and has applied adhesive.


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## CyberSultan (Aug 25, 2008)

.04in is 40 mil. If you are working with small rhinestones, you may find it difficult using template material of this thickness.


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

CyberSultan said:


> .04in is 40 mil. If you are working with small rhinestones, you may find it difficult using template material of this thickness.


Well, remember, we still have the option of rastering or vector cutting. The template('s) fabrication method may need to be specific to the stone sizes being used in the design. It would not be out of the question to raster part of it and vector other parts. Seems to me that engraving it would require some trial and error. Thanks for posting that info on the usual thicknesses.


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

Where can you buy a wide roll of double sided tape and adhesive spray? I'm trying the embo paper method where you layer the embo paper to a piece of chipboard(with spray adhesive or double sided tape), then a layer of double sided tape on the bottom. After the the layers have been assembled, laser the pattern and remove the backing to the double sided tape. Finally place the backing on the bottom and the template is complete.

I'm just not sure where to by wide sheets(or rolls) of double sided tape, or which adhesive spray is recommended.

Any suggestions?


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

Another quick question is about material thicknesses. How deep should each "hole" be for each type of basic rhinestone? For example, how deep for the SS6, SS10, etc? I can either raster down a certain depth or vector through different chipboard thicknesses.

When people use cutters for making templates such as the DAS material, do they need to buy different thicknesses for different size stones, or are the stones the same heights?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

hi-nrg-joe said:


> Another quick question is about material thicknesses. How deep should each "hole" be for each type of basic rhinestone? For example, how deep for the SS6, SS10, etc? I can either raster down a certain depth or vector through different chipboard thicknesses.
> 
> When people use cutters for making templates such as the DAS material, do they need to buy different thicknesses for different size stones, or are the stones the same heights?



Not sure about the first questions, but you do use the same template material for all the different size stones Joe  Alot of people use the hartco sand blast material I think.


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

Hi BobbieLee....So it doesn't matter if the stones get larger and taller, the template thickness stays the same? I would have thought if the stones are larger, I'd need a thicker template so they fit in the holes correctly. This is new to me so I'm not positive, just thinking out loud


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## LB (Jul 25, 2009)

Joseph, your material is consistent. The cut diameter of the holes in the template is what varies with each design and that is specific to the stones your using.


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## bubby (Jun 30, 2008)

Do you keep rastering the same hole until you get the depth needed. Would that process distort the hole size needed? Or are yu setting your laser a little deeeper to start. What was you trial and error method/


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## hi-nrg-joe (Jul 19, 2008)

How high should the rhinestones stick up out of the template? I have a pre-made template from Nova that they handed out at ISS and it is a pain to get the rhinestones in it. Half of them are upside down and the rest aren't even filled. I tried brushing lightly to put more in and then the other half flip upside down and others fall out. I'm not sure if the template is good, or if I'm just doing this incorrectly.

Bubby..I would assume that you take a small peice and just set it deep and scoop some stones over it and if they sit too deep, move over a bit, and back off the power to raster down a little less.....at least that's how I'm going to give it a try.


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