# Is Vinyl better than Screen Printing



## Constellation33 (May 13, 2007)

Guys and Gals,

Heres my question. If I want to produce single colour designs that I can use my Roland GX24 to produce, is there really any need in trying to do the same job using screen printing? 

I have been getting some fantastic results from the Roland, and I am very happy overall. Why would I need to consider doing the same job with screen printing? 

I am thinking of intergrating a small screen printing set up into my business that will enable me to do 2-3 colour jobs. But when you are only talking of one colour, then surely vinyl is king? There are no expensive screen set ups to contend with for a start. The quality that you get from vinyl output to me seems every bit as good as a screen printed job. 

On another matter completely I just want to say that if ever anyone was wondering how to get into a T-Shirt printing business then reading this forum is definately the way to go. Since I began posting and reading all the threads on here I have been out bought a Roland Cutter, an Epson sublimation system and a heat press. I then learnt how to use all of them from the excellent and friendly advice and video tutorials in this forum. Hell I have even pretty much learnt how to use Corel through this forum too. 

My business is now going so good that I am going full time with it from next month. I have no doubt in my mind that its all down to the advice received through this forum that has allowed me to have the success I am having. Just some words of advice for anyone thinking of starting up.

I am Looking forward to some responses to my questions on the whole screen print v vinyl debate?

Many Thanks

Ellis
UK.


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

i don't screen so i can't comment there - but i've been doing heat applied vinyl for a lot of years - and love it. i'd say for single color applications it would be more economical than screening - unless you've got a LOT to do and can offset the cost of the screens.


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## Constellation33 (May 13, 2007)

jberte said:


> i don't screen so i can't comment there - but i've been doing heat applied vinyl for a lot of years - and love it. i'd say for single color applications it would be more economical than screening - unless you've got a LOT to do and can offset the cost of the screens.


Thanks Jan, Thats pretty much what I was wanting to hear.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Constellation33 said:


> But when you are only talking of one colour, then surely vinyl is king? There are no expensive screen set ups to contend with for a start.


If anything one colour is where screenprinting really shines. Setups charges are generally an exaggerated problem. For one thing they're not necessarily expensive (look at Richard's charges for example), for another those are *retail* costs. There are no expensive screen setups for a printer - there are expensive charges that customers pay to make the printer money. Why people see that as an off-putting part of getting into the business (i.e. ca-CHING!) I don't know.

One colour prints are dead easy. You only need to register the image to the screen and the screen to the shirt - you don't need to register the screens to each other, which is the only hard part of setting up a job.

In other words, screenprinting a one colour image is cheap and easy. If it's costing the customer a lot of money, that's not because it's hard or expensive - it's because the printer is raking in the money.



Constellation33 said:


> Why would I need to consider doing the same job with screen printing?


Depends on your volume. For a large job, it's much cheaper, and I would wager more pleasant (i.e. pulling a squeegee is easier than weeding vinyl).


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## harleychic02 (Jun 19, 2007)

i agree w/ solmu! I do vinyl and screens in my little shop -- here's the skinny... what are your plans? my shop divides its' time in unique one-at-a-time custom made to order shirts (in which we use vinyl exclusively) plus+ bulk screenprinting. Vinyl is "king" when you have 1 or 12 tees to replicate; but, the cost is absorbed if you need to do a dozen+ shirts if ya go ahead and screenprint them. think of it like this.... vinyl expense is constant -- screenprint expense depletes exponentially -- it virtually costs the same to screenprint 1 shirt or 30 shirts -- SOOOOO - if you have a nice batch to do -- screening is "king"


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

harleychic02 said:


> i agree w/ solmu! I do vinyl and screens in my little shop -- here's the skinny... what are your plans? my shop divides its' time in unique one-at-a-time custom made to order shirts (in which we use vinyl exclusively) plus+ bulk screenprinting. Vinyl is "king" when you have 1 or 12 tees to replicate; but, the cost is absorbed if you need to do a dozen+ shirts if ya go ahead and screenprint them. think of it like this.... vinyl expense is constant -- screenprint expense depletes exponentially -- it virtually costs the same to screenprint 1 shirt or 30 shirts -- SOOOOO - if you have a nice batch to do -- screening is "king"


Yep...agree 100% with everybody so far.....

I would consider screenprinting for larger volumes where the weeding will quickly become a larger issue. Another consideration, if you don't want to setup your own screenprinting, is to use plastisol transfers. Costs a bit more than screenprinting but on par with vinyl and eliminates the weeding.


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## Constellation33 (May 13, 2007)

treadhead said:


> Yep...agree 100% with everybody so far.....
> 
> I would consider screenprinting for larger volumes where the weeding will quickly become a larger issue. Another consideration, if you don't want to setup your own screenprinting, is to use plastisol transfers. Costs a bit more than screenprinting but on par with vinyl and eliminates the weeding.


Thanks for all the responses guys. Definately food for thought. Weeding is a pain in the ***. Ok for just one or two jobs,but recently took on a job involving 48 t-shirts with quite an intricate design. Oh my god, talk about tedious monotiny.

Sounds like a combination of screen/vinyl is the way to go.

Ellis J


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

I would also like to add, that if you want to do more subtle or complex printing, that screen would be better. I did a vinyl job that had a lot of cutting to it and it was a pain to weed. Flat simple colors with small quantities I would use vinyl.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

What about the *quality* and *durability* of vinyl vs. screenprinting?

One of our top concerns with our business is quality, not only of customer service, but of product, too.

I've heard that vinyl transfers will outlast your shirt, while I've had PLENTY of screenprinted shirts go south after just a few washings.

I agree that screenprinting larger orders is easier and more cost effective, but I'm more concerned about the quality of those prints.


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

i know that many in our business are mostly concerned with production times and ease of production. to a certain extent i am as well......BUT, that said......i am a very hands-on person and an absolute stickler about quality control of the product that leaves here. i target a somewhat different market than seemingly many here - i don't have, or want, a retail shop with a lot of different stuff on display. i started out in the sign business and the garment production has come out as a result of that (read: weeding is like breathing to me, i don't even have to think hard about it  ) when deciding on which method by which to produce a garment, i take into very serious consideration it's intended end-use. if it's for a special event then long-term heavy use isn't usually a concern - good quality transfers work just fine. i have subbed out some screen jobs locally with less than wonderful results and their lead-time for rush jobs has been unacceptable most of the time. if however, my client is a commercial sign client and i know that the garments will take heavy wear and frequent washing i will always opt for either cut vinyl or in some cases dye sublimation, depending on both the design and their budget. don't get me wrong - screening definitely has it's place in the market - but so do the other possible solutions - and i employ each of them based on the customer's requirements.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Thank you. That helps a lot.

My Fiance is the one with experience here (he taught himself almost everything he knows...). I'm still getting a feel for this business.

Let me explain my goals here:

We're planning on most of our business coming from newer companies that need brand identities. Garments are only a portion of what we will be doing.

So what we'll mostly do is put a company's logo on their garments (most will be 1-3 colors). Most will be fairly small (except for custom t-shirts that we make for friends and family, etc).

We want those logos to last and last to the point that the shirt will wear out before the logo.

I'm sure for the most part we'll be doing short runs, but the thing is, if we happen to do a short run for a company, and then they decide they want a lot more (maybe to sell), I don't want our method of printing to the shirt to change from one to another.

Sure, it will take more time to use vinyl, but quality (we'll also be buying top-quality vinyl film) is our most important concern. Moreso than cost or time.

Like I said, most of our income will be coming from the design itself, and we'll offer garments as a bonus.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I've heard that vinyl transfers will outlast your shirt, while I've had PLENTY of screenprinted shirts go south after just a few washings.


A quality screen printed shirt can outlast the shirt.

A quality vinyl transfer can outlast the shirt.

A poorly screen printed shirt can fade or crack.

A poorly made vinyl transfer shirt can crack or peel.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks Rodney. How do you know if you're getting a quality screenprint?

Especially if I go with a local screenprinter.


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## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

hi chaney - it sounds like we're rowing the same boat  in my business for what you're describing, i do vinyl or dyesub - vinyl by far being the largest percentage. but it ain't necessarily so that you can't do different print methods for different useages for the same client! i have a custom body shop customer who's personal & employees shirts i do all in vinyl....those guys put some WEAR on their clothes! however, he has a very cool company logo (i should know, it's my design  ) and a lot of his customers were asking about shirts - he wanted some to keep in his office for just that thing - he sells a few and gives a few out to friends & customers - and those are NOT done with vinyl - i do transfers. a shirt bought or received from a vendor is more a novelty shirt to the wearer, worn & washed far less frequently than a workshirt!


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Hi Jan,

I see what you're saying. Maybe we should offer transfers as a lower cost alternative if they'll be selling or giving other shirts away.

Thanks!


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

Im my side of the industry my clients would balk at getting vinyl transfers on their shirts. I cannot see a construction employee wearing a huge vinly transfer in the blazing heat here in Florida.

As Rodney mentioned a quality print will last a long time. You also cannot exclude how the garments are washed by the end user. Screen print inks are not subject to excessive detergents and laundering, no matter who prints them. Every shirt I won, Vulcom, Oniel, Quicksilver, etc. all have faded and or cracking left and right after a few washes. These shirts are not cheap either. Its the nature of the shirt/ink for the most part. Screen printed shirts will last longer washed on cold and turned inside out. The majority do not wash this way.

Each has its benefits yet I would say screen print is the better way to go for the most part.

Not knocking transfers at all.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Fluid said:


> Im my side of the industry my clients would balk at getting vinyl transfers on their shirts. I cannot see a construction employee wearing a huge vinly transfer in the blazing heat here in Florida.


They definetely have there place but they also have their limitations.

I avoid using them for larger designs and stick to mainly names, numbers, words, slogans, or designs where there is more shirt material than vinyl.

I personally can't stand a large heavy vinyl design on the back of my shirt.....


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Solmu said:


> If anything one colour is where screenprinting really shines.


You can even do beautiful one-colour prints using a Gocco, one of the easiest methods possible.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

monkeylantern said:


> You can even do beautiful one-colour prints using a Gocco, one of the easiest methods possible.


Using a what??? What is a Gocco???


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

treadhead said:


> Using a what??? What is a Gocco???


It's a Japanese home screen-making system, primarily intended for ink printing, but with the new Japanese models being great for incredibly easy one-colour screenprinting.

Not the US versions though. They are nasty.


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## Cartierusm (Jan 30, 2010)

Sorry to bring up an old post, but I'm a noob and had some questions.

In this thread Jan talked about transfers and vinyl transfers as if they are different? Are they different and why?

At the end of the thread people talking about certain people not wanting a transfer shirt, I take it that screen printing melts more into a shirt and becomes more plyable and a transfer is more stiff and thick? If so does that apply to vinyl transfers and transfers made by screen printing with plastisol onto sheets to be later used on a heat press to a shirt?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Don't get confused with the word 'transfers'...you can have an inkjet transfer, a laserjet transfer, a vinyl transfer, a sublimation transfer or a plastisol transfer...all are different..all are transfers that sit on top the garment except for a sublimation transfer which is only for white/light polyester and the ink is converted to a gas and bonds with the polyester fibers. Plastisol is screen printing on a transfer sheet..


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## Cartierusm (Jan 30, 2010)

OK got it.


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## kirbymurphy (Aug 25, 2009)

Cartierusm said:


> ........At the end of the thread people talking about certain people not wanting a transfer shirt, I take it that screen printing melts more into a shirt and becomes more plyable and a transfer is more stiff and thick?


That's pretty much the question I had when searching the forum.

How does the vinyl feel compared to a screen print? Specifically to the front of a T that has a 2 or 3 line slogon, not much in graphics.

I dread making a single screen for just a handfull of T's so vinyl's flexibilty seems like a good choice. Looks like weeding sucks, but I only do slogons. BUT, does it feel obvious or annoying to the customer? I don't think I've ever worn one, at least knowingly.

BTW, whodo you rec for Plastisol transfers?

Thanks!


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> How does the vinyl feel compared to a screen print?


Just like screen printing has different techniques and feels (plastisol, puff, water based, rubbery, soft, etc) to it, so does vinyl.

There are t-shirt vinyls that have a heavy feel, there are textured t-shirt vinyls (like a puff texture), there are t-shirt vinyls that have a very soft feel, and there's even t-shirt vinyls that can produce a water based ink screen printing type feel 

Check out the "special effects", fashion and t-shirts, tabs at CAD-CUT® Direct Heat Transfer Material | Stahls' ID



> BTW, whodo you rec for Plastisol transfers?


There's a whole list of recommendations in our plastisol transfers section of the forum here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t77081.html

PS. Sometimes it's good to start a new thread for your question so you can give it a new thread title that explains your specific question better than the previous threads. That way your post won't get lost at the bottom of an old discussion  I lot has changed in the 4 years since this thread started


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## NYCrobot (Dec 6, 2010)

The Gocco isn't being made anymore. What supplies that are left are really expensive, which is a bummer.


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## UniqueTeez (Nov 26, 2009)

Short runs- Vinyl
Longer runs- 24 or more I would say screenprint


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