# Legal question....



## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

I do sports apparel for softball teams.

I had a customer go to a local competitor, and get a mock up done.

He then came to me because he decided not to order from them, and wanted me to design the same thing.

It was for basic.

Arched text from dafont.
mascot head from actionart.

These are fullly sublimated shirts, so the shirt is similar as well, some slight differneces, some differnet shading, differnt diamondplate, etc.
But overall, they look the same.

I get a email from them today, about how i copied their job.

My question is....am I at fault, it's not like there was anything to it. ARched text and a mascot head.
It's not like I took this intricate logo, and copied it.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

interesting question, not sure what i think of this. The client should have purchased the mockup and then there wouldn't have been any issues. But then again, these are clipart images and fonts that many people have access to and have used already. As you mentioned they aren't identical and i don't see how you're at fault (no copy right infringement). The real issue here is with you're client, they should have compensated the other company for producing the mockup in my opinion or not used it as reference for you. that's my ethical view of this, not legal advice by any means LOL


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

As long as your Dafont license allowed commercial use and you are a license holder for actionart, then I don't see any issues. I would reply back to them that they are not the only company who holds rights to these designs.


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## SeasonEnds (Sep 9, 2007)

Hmm, I'm not really too sure about this. Technically, they have rights as soon as the artwork was created. I'm sure that dafont and actionart have their own policies regarding the usage of their material. Did your client pay for the design of the artwork from your competitor. If he did, I would say it is less of an issue. If not, I would say that you are probably infringing. This is definitely a gray area. I doubt that they will try to take you to court of something like that, though. It's just too expensive.

The point is that you copied their artwork, without modification. Check this out http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html. Even if you take something that is readily available to others (elements from dafont or actionart) and create a unique piece of artwork out of it, does not mean that the creator of that piece has no rights against infringement.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Did they threaten you legally in this e-mail, or was it more of a gripe? They probably weren't happy and just wanted to let you know how they felt. I seriously doubt if you are using clipart that you paid to be able to use that you would be in any legal trouble.

When I was talking to a rep for a company that I ordered some clipart from I asked him about other people using what I created with their art. He only suggested I either charge or use a watermark, so anyone would have to go through the trouble of recreating rather than just coping directly. He never indicated any type of legal protection I would have with their art.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

It's probably legal, but you shouldn't whinge if your competitor does something similar to you.


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

if it wasnt just text and a clipart image, i would not have done it.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

FatboyGraphics said:


> if it wasnt just text and a clipart image, i would not have done it.


If you paid for the exact same clipart image and the customer was looking for that type of art work, what are you supposed to do, not use it? You both bought the same product to use. What if he suggested it would look good on a royal blue Gildan 2000 and showed them the shirt, would it be wrong to say I can supply that shirt also?

I guess you could have shown them a few options including that same clipart and see if they liked something else even better. But I don't think you should be prevented from using clipart you paid for.


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

Louie2010 said:


> If you paid for the exact same clipart image and the customer was looking for that type of art work, what are you supposed to do, not use it? You both bought the same product to use. What if he suggested it would look good on a royal blue Gildan 2000 and showed them the shirt, would it be wrong to say I can supply that shirt also?
> 
> I guess you could have shown them a few options including that same clipart and see if they liked something else even better. But I don't think you should be prevented from using clipart you paid for.


my thoughts exactly.

if the customer wanted something different, i would have done something different for him. But thats what he wanted, he was proud of what he "designed" with the other company.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

blow them off. if you used public available work you are fine. they don't have action on anything. if they sue you, counter file against them for the hassle and argue misuse of the justice system.

this stuff happens all the time. unless they have a contract that they own the artwork it is work for hire and they don't own it. even if they do if it is public availble work they have no case.


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## Neil Varney (Jan 6, 2009)

I wouldn't worry to much about it this time since it's just click art. People are funny when they are trying to save a buck. Just remake the art with some slight changes. I've done art for people and find out later they've taken my mockup and taken it to an another company and had it done. That is the problem of doing mockups without cost. I guess it's the nature of the beast.


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

I did find out that the customer did not pay them anything, i know the company well, and they usually require a deposit, but they did not for him, i guess because he was a returning customer.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

FatboyGraphics said:


> I did find out that the customer did not pay them anything, i know the company well, and they usually require a deposit, but they did not for him, i guess because he was a returning customer.


ya that makes sense. they're bitter and i can see why. no legal wrong doing in my opinion tho. just poor ethical practice by the customer.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

You obviously don't feel entirely comfortable with it, it's not great but it's business.


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

PositiveDave said:


> You obviously don't feel entirely comfortable with it, it's not great but it's business.


Honestly, i could careless about this particular company. They are run by a asshole....and my ex boss.

Thats the only reason they even contacted me about it. I worked for them for 2 years, and "duplicating" artwork was never a issue with them doing it when i was there.

I just wanted to get some other opinons on the matter.


**deleted the art.


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## MX1CAN (Jul 24, 2009)

I would have probably changed the design a bit more. Maybe would have used different font and possibly different style gradients/fills for the lettering and numbers. Still though as others have said it may not be morally right but I don't see how it breaks any type of law.


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

Well this has gotten good....he has given me the ultimatum to remove the art from my facebook page, or i would get a letter from their lawyer, plus other stuff, which i interpret as threats and blackmail.

I told him not to contact me directly, to only contact me through their lawyer or I will consider it harassment.
Plus, I said I would remove it, which i did.

He replied with, consider it anything you want, i'll continue to email you, blah blah blah more threats and ramblings.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

FatboyGraphics said:


> Well this has gotten good....he has given me the ultimatum to remove the art from my facebook page, or i would get a letter from their lawyer, plus other stuff, which i interpret as threats and blackmail.
> 
> I told him not to contact me directly, to only contact me through their lawyer or I will consider it harassment.
> Plus, I said I would remove it, which i did.
> ...


Now, now boys. I get the feeling none of this would be going on if he wasn't your ex-boss? 

Left on bad terms?


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## FatboyGraphics (Sep 20, 2009)

splathead said:


> Now, now boys. I get the feeling none of this would be going on if he wasn't your ex-boss?
> 
> Left on bad terms?


If bad terms is, demanding money owed from the previous month, being cussed out, then turning in my 2 week notice, and then being bewiddled again about my short comings as an employee, and then being forced to leave without being allowed to take anything, which in turn required me to get a police escort to remove my belongings....then Yes. 

But for the past month or so, they've called me for help on cutting heat sealed vinyl, and ordering from a vendor that has cut them off for not paying their bill.

nice huh?


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