# Expired Sawgrass inks - bad choice - what now?



## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

So... ever in search of a bargain, I've been buying the 50% off Artainium inks from LRi. They've worked fine for a long time (several months to a year or more). 

Recently there's a print quality issue that I can best describe as "ghosting" or "shifting" of the graphics, as if there were two layers of ink and one layer was slightly offset from the other. After laboriously narrowing it down to an Artainium ICC profile issue (it's not a printer or design software problem) I called Sawgrass and they asked me for the use-by date on my ink... oops... because we refill the Epson 1430 bags with expired ink meant for other Epson printers. 

Today I Learned... Sawgrass engineers their inks specifically for each individual printer. 4880 ink will not work in a 1430 printer (well, it HAS worked... until it didn't?). 

In addition, even if I buy all new inks meant for my printer, I have "contaminated" my entire bulk ink system with this incorrect ink, and Sawgrass won't provide support unless I replace the bulk ink system (tubing, cartridges, etc.) as well.

So, I'm looking at $1,000 to replace the bulk system and buy brand new ink bags. I am using a new (3 months old) Epson 1430 (an upgrade from 1400s we've been using for years). 

However, our business partners just switched to a Ricoh GX7000 system for $1600, and it would be advantageous if we are using the same system as they are. But I've seen nothing but horrible reviews with the Ricoh GX7000 using Sawgrass inks (to the point where class-action lawsuit is being discussed).

What would y'all advise?


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## OSSKOBRET (Sep 17, 2011)

I have a 7100 that is very reliable 
had it for 8 months and no issues besides user error
and I do not use it every day I just leave it on so it can do its own maintenance


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

I should clarify that the problem with the GX7000 is when it is used with Sawgrass inks (which I would be using, so.)


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

The ricoh 7000 has been discontinued quite some time ago. Evidently there was a problem with expired inks along with some hardware issues. It has been replaced with the 7100 which had been doing finest, but I would still be careful and not use expired ink


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Sugarcaine said:


> So... ever in search of a bargain, I've been buying the 50% off Artainium inks from LRi. They've worked fine for a long time (several months to a year or more).
> 
> Recently there's a print quality issue that I can best describe as "ghosting" or "shifting" of the graphics, as if there were two layers of ink and one layer was slightly offset from the other. After laboriously narrowing it down to an Artainium ICC profile issue (it's not a printer or design software problem) I called Sawgrass and they asked me for the use-by date on my ink... oops... because we refill the Epson 1430 bags with expired ink meant for other Epson printers.
> 
> ...


Above in red is inaccurate. They have 2 versions but the bulk supplier I use to get sawgrass inks from says they are all the same. If they were specced to a printer the ICC profile wouldn't be needed. There are options besides Sawgrass.


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

Sugarcaine said:


> I should clarify that the problem with the GX7000 is when it is used with Sawgrass inks (which I would be using, so.)


I meant the 7100. Sorry.


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

sben763 said:


> Above in red is inaccurate. They have 2 versions but the bulk supplier I use to get sawgrass inks from says they are all the same. If they were specced to a printer the ICC profile wouldn't be needed. There are options besides Sawgrass.


Well, that's what Sawgrass tech support rep "Kimberly" told me today, that the problem was that I was using Epson 4880 inks in an Epson 1430, AND that they would not provide support with expired inks. 

She specifically told me that the inks are formulated specific to the print head they will be going through, that the inks are "pushed" through the print heads differently, and that to use a different ink could result in clogs etc. 

I told her that I was getting perfect nozzle checks. Clogging is NOT the issue I'm having.

I'm intensely frustrated by this issue. I'm backed up 3 days on work and I'm about to spend $1,000 plus overnight shipping for all-new ink and CISS and I'm 100% certain that this will NOT solve my ghosting problem. But, it's the only way I can get Sawgrass to support me here. 

Yes, I'm aware of Cobra ink etc., but I have to exactly match the colors my business partners are using. Also I'm skeptical that Cobra is just one guy?? What happens when he dies? I'm watching the discussions about it, intrigued by the cost savings and hating on Sawgrass right about now. It's a big leap though.


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

charles95405 said:


> The ricoh 7000 has been discontinued quite some time ago. Evidently there was a problem with expired inks along with some hardware issues. It has been replaced with the 7100 which had been doing finest, but I would still be careful and not use expired ink


So the Ricoh GX7100 is NOT having the problems with Sawgrass ink corroding (or whatever) the motherboard?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I've been ordering china inks for years. I currently just order all transfers fro sk manufacturing. User here @skdave. I had a partner in another state that ordered everything. I split ties and just now am ramping up in that department again. At his prices it not worth me doing in house. If a customer needs on the spot then I am not able to help. I have even just sent some directly to him for full garment dye sub.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

Kiberley doesn't know what she's talking about, but that's probably not her fault, just saying what she's told. 
I wouldn't trust a word anyone at Sawgrass said.
And,as you've discovered, their support isn't always that helpful, and can be used as a way of them making more sales.
Free yourself from their system, and inferior inks.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Nicole...I am not saying the 7100 is without ink issues. I have not used it as I use the 3110, but I have not observed complaints about the 7100. Given ink issues, I would not use any expired ink in a Ricoh. Right now I only do mugs, tiles, name tags etc. For garments I use DTG. For garments I think I would use skdave.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Just so everyone here knows. Expired inks will work but won't last long and will be unstable, color shift will eventually occur. You do also risk clogging as the older think ink get the microspheres drop out and settle to the bottom. This also is part of the cause of the color shift but at first its not enough to notice. I use to agitate my inks monthly. As the aged and got lower I did so one time and ten yellow channel clogged. After 3-5 days of hot water treatments and piezo flush I was able to clear it but I would never do that again.


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

sben763 said:


> Just so everyone here knows. Expired inks will work but won't last long and will be unstable, color shift will eventually occur.


I've learned my lesson  we go through ink pretty quickly, but the fact that it's already old before it's ever installed may be a problem. I really haven't had a problem at all before now, though, and I'm still not certain it's the fault of the ink being either expired, or "engineered" for a different print head.

When you say "color shift" do you mean a change in hue? I'm trying to figure out what to even call the issue I'm having with my 1430, the print is "ghosted" - the hue is correct, but it's as if there are two layers of ink, and one layer is offset or shifted slightly to one side. 

Here's a (bad) iPhone photo of what it's doing... I can't even get a good picture of it, it's so subtle! You can see it most readily in the interior points of the "W".


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

looks like not enough pressure


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

sben763 said:


> looks like not enough pressure


That's the print, on transfer paper, not the pressed image.


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## Sugarcaine (Oct 17, 2014)

I'm going to start another thread, maybe y'all can help me diagnose the problem


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Sugarcaine said:


> I'm going to start another thread, maybe y'all can help me diagnose the problem


get new inks. My black did that on the last set of saw grass inks. the microspheres become enlarged not allowing them to print properly. I put standard inks in it would print normal, the old dye sub blurry. I then flushed the head and ordered new inks. yo could try cleaning the bottom of the head. heres a link how to do. https://cobraink.com/videos/Wiping a printhead/start video.html


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

As someone who had 2 Gx-7000 die due to expired inks and a used purchased R2880 have nothing but issues with expired Cobra Inks I would HIGHLY suggest not to use ANY expired inks at all.


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