# sublimation on 100% cotton



## uliari (Jul 2, 2009)

Hi i just left you this video, and links
seems it is posible to transfer the ink into 100% cotton garments,

the seller says, the ink last for a very long time, but begings to lost bright after 8-10 washes,

POLÍMERO PARA SUBLIMACIÓN EN ALGODÓN 100% - YouTube


Polimero Para Sublimacion 100% Algodon Bfn - $ 850.00 en MercadoLibre


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm skeptical. How does it wash test?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

uliari said:


> Hi i just left you this video, and links
> seems it is posible to transfer the ink into 100% cotton garments,
> 
> the seller says, the ink last for a very long time, but begings to lost bright after 8-10 washes,
> ...


This is just a polymer prep spray that sublimation inks can cling to, been around forever. Doesn't last.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Is the price really in dollars, or does the dollar sign here mean some other currency? $850. Really?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

it is not true sublimation...which is the process of actually dying the polyester fabric...this process uses a polymer spray (getting even spray is a chore) and will hardly last 3-5 washes..if that...if you have $$ to spare go ahead and donate...and then tell us how great this is!!


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

The prices are in Pesos, Gordon. About 70 dollars. Mercado Libre is Mexico's E-Bay. Could be interesting to browse for "Impresoras para Sublimacion" and "Tinta de Sublimación".

The Dollar sign and the Peso sign are the same. Many Latin American countries use it. I remember, until I was in high school, that the dollar sign was written with two crossing vertical lines, instead of one.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Max, thanks for the info.

For anyone thinking about this, it DOES work but you just have to think of the right product for it. I can buy small kid's tees for under a buck at the LA wholesalers. Average price is about 70 cents per shirt in a box of 72 in assorted sizes. 

These are useful for one-offs to test a design, but I've found a small market locally (I'm in SoCal) offering really cheap tees for kids' birthday parties. I charge a little under $4 each, making nearly $3 on each one, including the ink and paper. They each take about 45 seconds to press, and the spraying I do with a squeeze bottle, not an electric sprayer. I don't pre-press, and the customers know these are made to last only for the duration of the party.

You'd think I'd know a little more about Latin e-commerce, as the vast majority of my customers are Latino, where it's common to have birthday parties with 15 and 20 kids! (They all speak much better English than I can speak Spanish.) 

Now, I do try to use a 50-50 shirt rather than all-cotton. With the spray the dyes start to fade fairly heavily after a half-dozen washings, but it looks real good for the day of the party, and even a few washing after that. For a party gift novelty it's not bad. 

In this biz you MUST look for ways to think outside the box. Rather than always rejecting these types of products, for those that work even half-way as they say they do, think of how you might use them to your advantage. 

In point of fact, I don't sublimate on 100% poly shirts. I don't know why but I haven't found a market in my area for that. But I've found other jobs doing things that aren't supposed to work!


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Just curious - when using all cotton or 50/50 and you wash where does the ink go? Does it discolor other items in the wash or does it not bond to other fabric?


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

As with any dyes in cotton it slowly washes out and goes down the drain. It's not so much ink loss that there's noticeable bleed, and because of the way synthetic dyes work, the color will not readily attach itself to other natural fabrics. It doesn't "stick" to cotton, which isn't receptive to synthetic dyes (hence why it washed out in the first place), and not to polyester and other synthetics, which resists the dye unless it's under sublimation temperature.

I've tried testing to see how much dye is absorbed into a sheet of Shout, and with one shirt there's not enough to notice anything. I've gotten more bleed washing 50/50 red colored Jerzee's shirts from Joanne's, the kind they sell for cheap at-home tees decorating.

Mind you, these aren't all-over shirts. The typical decoration is less than 4x6 inches, and sometimes just a name and flower or cartoon animal, or something.


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## eric pei (Aug 7, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> This is just a polymer prep spray that sublimation inks can cling to, been around forever. Doesn't last.


This as actually a polymere spray that under sublimación techniques dries into the polyester fabric. It also absorbs and seals the sublimación inks inside the polymere coating just as it does with the polyester. Polymere is a man made synthetic material not unlike the same molecular structure of polyester as as thus substitutes readily for the polyester.

It does have some draw backs though. Not all polymeres purchased are good for the job. Hence, some will eventually dilute and wash off. This is only after substancial washing like 20 plus washes. 
The correct polymere solutions do last indefinite. But you need a chemical degree like me or an honest seller to get the right products at the right Price. This business is full of cons. 

Another drawback is the polymere actually gives the feel of a transfer like texture after application. A Little (or maybe a lot - depending on applied amount being uniform) stiffening of the fabric. Too much for some people. 
The other is, its not as simple as normal sublimación of polyester. It takes good timing, practice and experience. The process takes about 5 times longer than polyester sublimación. If your doing a hundred tshirts and it takes a day with polyester, then it will take you 5 days. You can be doing an awfull lot of other work in those extra four days. 
This makes cost also an important factor. Materials and time are greatly increased. Many say the tshirts are cheaper and it doesnt matter, but fact is, It does matter. You have to make adjustment for the extra time and costs involved. 
The last obstical is color. These polymere sprays can be used too heavily too readily and this causes yellowing under heat. It can also happen with the correct amount if heated too long. This is where practice and experience play an important part. It can be costly learning. 
The fact is, the polymere synthetic sprays are not that expensive, but since it was taken upon to use it for sublimación of cotten products, the Price has risen drastically. I am currently looking for an alternative supplyer for my own materials as the supplier has risen prices by 500% since I began using it 1 year ago. Greed is a nasty thing in mexico. Everyone wants everything you have, even your profit. 
Hopefully when I get time, my wife and I will develope and manufacture our own polymere more suited for the role. As a chemical enginner and a biochemist team, I am sure we can do it as time permits lol. 
Dont be too pessimistic of the products at the momento. They do work as long as your not being conned and got the right materials. The near future will see these products more readily available and cheaper for viable use. At the momento, its too messy and too expensive through time and materials to be really viable except for maybe politicial and company advertisements.


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

Has anyone else looked at subli-cotton from BMS in the UK?
I use it all the time on cottons, okay only light stuff but the finish is great but sort of complicated to use but for one off's it has very impressive performance and durability

have a look at the video on this page SubliCotton Sublimation Print onto Cotton

I've just pressed two kids t's today with some line drawings of soccer players and they came out spot on.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

eric pei said:


> This as actually a polymere spray that under sublimación techniques dries into the polyester fabric.
> 
> *Yup*
> 
> ...


I made markups in your text body above.


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## stevem98 (Mar 2, 2006)

you can't sublimate cotton and never will be able to.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

stevem98 said:


> you can't sublimate cotton and never will be able to.


Technically you are 100% correct.

But what is being described here is not sublimating to cotton per se. They coat the cotton with a polymer "prep" coat that can be sublimated onto.

My point is and has always been, it's not worth while to do this when there are better alternatives around.


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## ArferMo (Jul 18, 2010)

Like ChromaBlast for example.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

ArferMo said:


> Like ChromaBlast for example.


Yes concept is the same.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

I have some of that spray.....save your money


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## eric pei (Aug 7, 2015)

ParrotPrinting said:


> I have some of that spray.....save your money


Yes, but which spray? There are many of them. All different base structure. Very few have been successful as you have found. But stay open to the spray. You just need the correct one. I am australian and have a print shop in mexico. My wife and I designed our own after testing about ten different types here. Only one came close to successful. With some modification, we have a pretty successful spray now for ourselves. When I get time to manufacture in quantity, we may manufacture for sale. I am a chemical engineer and my wife is a bio chemist and we have our own chemical manufacture plant. We know what is going to work or not. 
Most of these products on the market are stock products with some degree of viability but not designed for the purpose. This is why they fail. Within a couple years, there will be plenty successful products available I envisage. At the momento, i would say you are correct on saving money. Untill someone offers you a money back guarentee on these products. We do on our teeshirts.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

Wow Eric that sounds pretty hopeful...if you need a guinea pig let me know


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

In a couple of years, DTG will be even more affordable than it is now, and no one is going to bother with trying to sublimate onto cotton. Plus, DTG has the advantage of white ink, something sublimation cannot do. 

I've been in the situation where modern technology simply outpaced what sublimation can realistically handle. For certain types of printing, there are other technologies (i.e. flat bed UV) that have replaced sublimation, both in quality and features.

Many of the proponents of this spray stuff are either ignorant or oblivious to laws regarding applying an untested material to garments intended for use by those 12 and under. It's a serious crime to do it in the US -- and yes, they do check. They've had shiploads of baby, toddler, and teen clothing from China turned back because the materials included non-allowed substances, including excessive levels of lead and phthalates. The only way to legally use a coating material for garments in the US is if it's tested by the manufacturer. That costs tens of thousands, and involves significant paperwork.


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## eric pei (Aug 7, 2015)

GordonM said:


> In a couple of years, DTG will be even more affordable than it is now, and no one is going to bother with trying to sublimate onto cotton. Plus, DTG has the advantage of white ink, something sublimation cannot do.
> 
> I've been in the situation where modern technology simply outpaced what sublimation can realistically handle. For certain types of printing, there are other technologies (i.e. flat bed UV) that have replaced sublimation, both in quality and features.
> 
> Many of the proponents of this spray stuff are either ignorant or oblivious to laws regarding applying an untested material to garments intended for use by those 12 and under. It's a serious crime to do it in the US -- and yes, they do check. They've had shiploads of baby, toddler, and teen clothing from China turned back because the materials included non-allowed substances, including excessive levels of lead and phthalates. The only way to legally use a coating material for garments in the US is if it's tested by the manufacturer. That costs tens of thousands, and involves significant paperwork.


You have the answer to everything Gordon?

Firstly, DTG is not available as a cheap starter option at this moment. Next year, a couple more years will see many of the people starting out in business today, close the doors as they can not realistically keep up. They need options now. You may use DTG, you may use aternatives, but the fact is, you are anti sublimation. So you dont like it, you dont want it, you dont use it. You do not speak for all or even the majority of people who sublimate. 
Secondly, you sprout the laws like everyone else is ignorant. The only ignorant here is you. The polyester spray is just that, polyester and it is not illegal to put under 12 year olds in polyester as it is proven safe and ecconomical. Just like the tshirt. It is the inks that are more in question to health issues. You go as far to say how it is a crime. In america, it is more a crime to defame a product you have no basis to defame. 
These products are developed and distributed under all guidelines to public safety and health with stringent government guidelines and inspections. 
As for viability, DTG is just a myth when it comes to doing the 1.2 million politicial tshirts I have just done here in mexico. Its too slow. If you knew anything about DTG, you would know that having White ink available is not to advantage, but rather requires pretreating prior to print or even slower printing techniques. Some of us are in the developement and testing of these products. We design, develope and legalize these products for public use. Have a nice day and remember, you do things your way and let others use what is available to their abilities and financial situations. Not everyone is as dumb as you think.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

eric pei said:


> You have the answer to everything Gordon?
> 
> Firstly, DTG is not available as a cheap starter option at this moment. Next year, a couple more years will see many of the people starting out in business today, close the doors as they can not realistically keep up. They need options now. You may use DTG, you may use aternatives, but the fact is, you are anti sublimation. So you dont like it, you dont want it, you dont use it. You do not speak for all or even the majority of people who sublimate.
> Secondly, you sprout the laws like everyone else is ignorant. The only ignorant here is you. The polyester spray is just that, polyester and it is not illegal to put under 12 year olds in polyester as it is proven safe and ecconomical. Just like the tshirt. It is the inks that are more in question to health issues. You go as far to say how it is a crime. In america, it is more a crime to defame a product you have no basis to defame.
> ...


Eric,

I'm not speaking for Gordon, but you are missing the point on the compliance requirement.

No one is saying that this would fail that requirement, or not. However, that doesn't mean you can skip the testing/certification process just because you have a "good feeling" this substance is safe. It must be proven AND certified. $$$$$

When you state "These products are developed and distributed under all guidelines to public safety and health with stringent government guidelines and inspections." _this may only be in regards to the raw product_. 

But be assured the regulations Gordon is referring to = _the product applied to the shirt_, not the raw product itself. So what you may state may be true, but could only apply to the raw product in it's imported form.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

The Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA) | CPSC.gov

The law pertains to testing and certification, as well as labeling and tracking, for garments intended for those 12 and under. Unless otherwise exempt (exemption status is provided for specific materials, noted on the above Web site), the nature of the component is not relevant, even if considered safe from a chemical standpoint. The testing and certification must still be performed.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

For those interested, the following is an example testing and compliance certification for Neenah heat transfer products, such as JPSS. With this certificate, and assuming the decorator follows required basic labeling per CPSIA, the product may be legally applied to children's wear for sale in the US. Note that the name of the third-party testing facility is also provided. 

Neenah CPSIA Certification (PDF)


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## rossdv8 (Dec 21, 2012)

I am still wearing the Dye Sublimated 100% cotton shirt that I posted on here some years ago after well over 100 HOT washes and HOT tumble dries. And the statement "it is not true sublimation...which is the process of actually dying the polyester fabric..." is irrelevant.

As I have pointed out before in this argument. We are always referring to dye sublimated ceramic mugs, aluminium plates and slate tiles. Just like 100% cotton none of these can be sublimated.

But we ignore the fact that they cannot be sublimated and we do it anyway. We just get a pre-treated non-sublimatable (not even sure that is grammar) item or we treat one with a sublimation polymer.

A 100% cotton shirt is no different. The process I used completely saturates a $5 shirt using about $3 worth of a polymer art spray that is sold here in Australia. I have tried several other brands but only one seems to be successful.

There is a company that sells on ebay called DyePress also. they have two products for enhancing poly cotton blend fabrics, but they wash out. However, if you use their 2 part product and saturate a shirt, you might be surprised.

Now comes the problem. A **** is not like a mug or a tile. Your customer will be wearing it. There are all sorts of possible skin reactions to chemicals as discussed somewhere else. So aside from certification, you also have the problem that the item needs to be given a pretty thorough wash.

The good about that is that the first wash removes any loose dye. The bad part is that most people want a nice crisp 'obviously new' shirt. The other bad part is that the saturating, drying and later washing adds to the time to produce an article.

And the reality is that really good transfer papers like Jetpro SS are now good enough to withstand hot wash and hot tumble drying on cheap k-mart shirts for around 25-50 washes without obvious signs of distress.

What happens to a saturation process subliimated 100% cotton shirt is that the colour is completely permanent. No fading ever no matter what you do. BUT !!! the lint produced by washing and drying cotton removes a small part of the shirt each time. And the unsaturated fibres, which are obviously white, get raised a little giving an overall lightening or distressing of the fabric - just like you get in blue jeans with wear, but much more subtle.

Wet the shirt though and it is bright as the day it was printed.

My argument every time someone raises this is YES you CAN dye sublimate a 100% cotton article just as you can Dye Sublimate a 100% ceramic mug. Both simply need to be treated correctly.

My other argument is that for now, until the poly spray I use to saturate my shirts becomes much cheaper it is a complete waste of time except as a novelty. The art spray I use is about $12 for a 440g tin. You get maybe 3 or 4 shirts form 1 tin. 

The cotton area that will be printed has to be saturated completely through the cotton, which means having a frame to slip the shirt over to prevent the stuff transferring to the back of the shirt.

Then the saturated part needs to be dried. I used a tumble dryer on the hottest setting.

Finally the usual - prepress longer than usual to drive out any moisture and press on the highest practical pressure on the press for 60 seconds at least.

I had two prints that have never washed out no matter what I have tried to do to them, and a heap of others with different chemicals that simply wash out.


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