# Ricoh dye sub printer problem - motherboard has gone bad



## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Took 2 seconds to diagnose (over the telephone) that the motherboard has gone bad in my Ricoh. Apparently this is a "known" problem. Anyone here know about it?


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Did not know about this problem until my motherboard died today. I am a month and half out of warranty and waiting to hear back from Conde. I have only run about 40 sheets through my printer, it is basically brand new.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Yikes! I'm 6+ months into it - so I'm very concerned that I'll be out of warranty when it happens again. At the rate Sawgrass is moving, I may be out of warranty before I get my replacement printer! Keep us posted on what happens. 

Sawgrass told me I'd get my replacement printer in a couple of days. I thought I played it safe by preparing my customers for a weeklong wait. It's been over a week and Sawgrass can't (or won't) even tell me whether one has been shipped. They're somehow trying to blame it on their distributors....? The original person I spoke to at Sawgrass won't contact me at all. Each day this mess gets deeper into my pocketbook (lost sales because I'm turning away jobs until this is fixed, possible lost customers because they are still waiting for a job that has a must-have deadline in 2 days and I still have no printer, and lost money because I have to refill all the dang ink lines again before finishing my jobs....) I have tried to stay nice about the whole thing ... but at this point I have to say: Buyer Beware.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

What does Sawgrass have to do with it? Why didn't you contact Ricoh? Sawgrass manufactures the ink but Ricoh makes the printers. Also, what model number do you have?


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

mn shutterbug said:


> What does Sawgrass have to do with it? Why didn't you contact Ricoh? Sawgrass manufactures the ink but Ricoh makes the printers. Also, what model number do you have?


I contacted Conde because that's where I purchased the printer, they have good customer service, and they are knowledgable. Conde explained the problem, told me what solution to expect, and referred me to Sawgrass. I was under the impression that the Ricoh warranty was shot once we put the Sawgrass ink through it....?

I have the 3300. I asked about upgrading to the larger Ricoh, but Sawgrass told me that they have the same problem. 

I received my replacement printer yesterday evening. Back to work....


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

USing 3rd party inks can not void your warranty.
They can hem and haw and threaten not to honor it but heres the info I was given

The Use of Compatible Supplies Cannot Void Your Manufacturer Warranty​





*How This Affects You…*
The use of our printer cartridges does not void your printer warranty. The manufacturer of the printer you are using cannot void the warranty on your printer because you use a cartridge or refill kit manufactured by someone other than the printer manufacturer. This prohibition includes the use of compatible cartridges and remanufactured cartridges. U.S. law also prohibits the manufacturers of your equipment from requiring the use of OEM ink or toner or charging extra fees if you use products other than OEM products with their equipment. Those requirements and/or fees are inviolation of existing anti-trust acts


Free choice of vendor allows for competition and keeps prices affordable. Your printer manufacturers are aware of lower priced supplies. Threatening to void warranties and add additional service call charges for use of compatible ink or toner are their way of trying to limit competition. Save this information to protect yourself against these illegal actions. 









*Here’s a portion of the legal statement…*


*MAGNUSON-MOSS*
Warranty Improvement Act
United States Code Annotated
Title 15 Commerce and Trade
Chapter 50 Consumer Product Warranties 15 Section 2302
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
(c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if:
1. The warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service
so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and 2. The Commission finds that such


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Interesting to say the least and one can see both sides of this arguement. I think the key to all this is what a court would define as "compatiable". I do not know the differences between regular Ricoh ink and the ink used for dye sub but if you look at an Epson the issue may be understandable. If you are taking out Epson brand ink and using a third party ink should it void the warranty? Probably not. If you take out the Epson ink and use dye sub ink should it potentially void the warranty - possibly as much of the dye sub ink out there is going to cause additional problems and additonal wear and tear on the printer. Should Epson be forced to come on-site and repair a printer that is being used for something it was designed for - probably not.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

From another forum.:

Re: Third party ink voids warranty? NEW [SIMILAR]
JonCone http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/956161711/photos - 2 months ago

I've been developing and selling 3rd party inks since 1993. It is correct that the use of 3rd party inks does not automatically void your warranty here in the USA because of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act and the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. 
As a result of this protection and because the OEM inks are known to clog printers, the OEM is bound to provide you with repairs under warranty for the same reason - unless they can demonstrate that the use of third-party inks causes new problems that OEM inks do not. With some inks that may be so. For example, a third party ink can have incompatibility with the printer, or may have been formulated for another inkjet technology, or is contaminated, etc. 
But, the OEM is not obligated to provide warranty repair and testing with the 3rd party consumable installed, and they normally charge you the cost of a set of Epson inks for the final testing. You should always keep a partially filled set of OEM carts as a courtesy to the OEM as well as the means for them to complete the testing of your printer without charging you for new inks. This avoids ill will on both sides. They do have to provide a finished test, but not so with an ink that they can not guarantee performs to their own. And the consumer feels that they should not have to buy OEM inks for a repair. But, that's the catch-22. 
My own company ishttp://www.InkjetMall.com and we have insurance against repairs when the OEM can prove that the use of our products voided the warranty. I believe that that is the least a 3rd party ink company can provide as assurance to its customers. 
But it is true that this same warranty protection (first used against the Ford Motor Company) is not the rule of law outside the USA. And that is usually where these arguments stem from. 
-- show signature -- Jon Cone
Inkjetmall • ConeColor • Piezography • Cone Editions Press 

Epson's are known for clogging so kinda hard to blame it on a 3rd party ink. My ricoh GX-7000 broke when I used Staples brand 13x19 presentation paper on it. The paper says ALL INKJETS so as a consumer I believe that statement is saying ALL INKJETS and being a inkjet printer should have no issues. Looking at the paper weight it falls with in the specifications that Ricoh says the printer can print. Now I had dye sub inks in it and needed to print a few logos for some shirts and knowing that the 8x11.5 paper worked I need these done ASAP unfortunately the printer since I got the by pass tray has had issues grabbing any paper of any size from it. That day was no different. And after 4 attempts I put in couple more to help it grab it and the stupid thing grabbed all 4 sheets and busted a metal rod. 
Now I have issues the way the warranty reads.
Ricoh says from the purchase date. So what is that exactly. ?? The day you order ? They day they ship ? They day you get it ? They day they get the vendor gets their money say in a COD payment, which is how I paid ? I ordered on the 7th, shipped the 9th, I got it the 13th and then they got the cod the 15th. So what day did my warranty start ? Cuz my printer broke on the 7th , one year to the date.
Oh and add to it that I reported it on line at Ricohs site the day of the 7th but didn't call till the following week, The tech considered it out of warranty just from that.
At no time was it inquired on how it broke or what I was doing when it broke. 
I was using 3rd party inks, Sawgrass - said by ink company to work in this printer
I was using non ricoh paper but fell within their specs.
I was using the paper in what could probably be considered other use than presentation.
So what.?? I was well within all the specs so as far as I was concerened Ricoh should get their butts out here to fix it. Their biggest issue tho was the dates. I had to get invoices with the serial numbers and sent them tracking info etc to get it under warranty. And they did cover it. Tho not once was the use brought up really.

Mark


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Hopefully Ricoh will step up to the plate. Please understand the issue with Epsons clogging is NOT an Epson issue. It is the simple fact that Epson printers were not designed nor intended to use dye sub ink which for the most part are thicker then standard desk top ink whether it be Epsons ink or a third party ink. Epson gets a lot of negativity comments on this forum when ALL of the negativity should be directed at Sawgrass. Artainium ink is garbage and is 100% the problem behind Epsons clogging issues. It is Sawgrass that forces people in the desk top market to suffer with inferior ink and gouging prices. They have another solution, an ink called Sublime, that is much better then Artainium yet they refuse to make it available to desk top users. We have been running J-Tek ink for many months and NEVER had a head clog and in fact never have even ran a head cleaning cycle on our Epson 9800. The best way dye sublimation users can stick it to Sawgrass as Sawgrass has stuck it to this market is to find a better option whenever possible. Money talks.


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Conde tells me to call Sawgrass, Sawgrass tells me to call Ricoh, and Ricoh tells me to call Sawgrass. What a mess. I am a month and half out of warranty and it looks like I am out of luck. Does anyone know if you can replace the motherboard on a Ricoh printer?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Sorry to hear that you getting the run around. 
Ricoh will give you a quote on repair it. 
I don't see why Sawgrass would be involved in a motherboard issue tho. Unless ink leaked onto it.

Good luck
Mark


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Ricoh will not even talk to me, they tell me to call Sawgrass. As for ink leaking no, in fact the printer has only about 35 pages run though it. Also, I was told Ricoh does not fix them they just toss them and send a replacement. I hope this is not true.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

They fixed mine. 

Mark


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Really? Were you out of warranty? Who did you ship it too and what was wrong with your printer?


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Also, what number did you call and who did you talk to?


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Sorry you're getting the runaround. Sawgrass replaced my printer, so there was no need for me go contact Ricoh - I only had to prove purchase date in order to establish that it was still under warranty. Sawgrass mentioned that they have folks trying to figure out whether this is an ink issue.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Ioverdosed said:


> Also, what number did you call and who did you talk to?


I filled out the support request off their site.
Conde gave me this number 800-742-6438

ON one of my post in this discussion I wrote about what happened and all. It has all my info on what happned and stuff.

I didn't ship it they came out and fixed it. Took about 2 weeks. Part was not in stock.

Mark


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

I contacted Ricoh to see what they would say. They told me if its under warranty call sawgrass. Otherwise its cheaper to replace than repair...


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

I still don't get the sawgrass thing ? THey say why call a ink company ? 

Mark


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Sawgrass has an agreement with Ricoh to cover all warranty issues with dye sub ink printers.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Really ? Ricoh took care of mine. Sawgrass was never mentioned or called or brought up by Ricoh support or techs. 

Good Luck with it all
Mark


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## edward1210 (Nov 7, 2009)

freebird1963 said:


> Really ? Ricoh took care of mine. Sawgrass was never mentioned or called or brought up by Ricoh support or techs.
> 
> Good Luck with it all
> Mark


So if I'm out of warranty, the only option is to through away the printer?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Call ricoh. they list on their site their fix rates and all.
Never hurt to talk to them before throwing it away.


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

I would call Sawgrass and complain. They are going to replace mine and I was out of warranty.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Has anyone who is out of warranty tried to find & replace their own motherboard? Or do you have a part number?


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## Pyramid Graphics (Jun 29, 2011)

Sorry to here about this .mine just went out after 1yr, 11 months. I'm not going to get another one though I have good unused still in box ink if any one is interested.


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## Ioverdosed (Aug 21, 2008)

Hi please email me about your unused inks

Thanks


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Just happened to me, I was told by the ink supplier Magic Touc that the inks are caustic and cause the problem I am pig sick about this especially as I just spent £250 on inks and about the same on mugs and again on shirts. My Epson 1800 also gave up the ghost so I am thinking of dumping the lot and not bothering with dye sub its not worth the hassle.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

My replacement 3300 also died. I read in another thread that these machines must be run frequently - I'm sorry that no one ever bothered to mention that to me. I guess that's the part that irks me most...manufacturer nor distributor nor anyone along the way bothered to mention the problem, update the customer about the problem, or update about the need for frequent use to supposedly help prevent the problem. (I thought one of the pluses was the fact that the Ricoh didn't clog if not used daily...?) I get regular marketing emails - but I have to burn hrs on research to figure out how to fix the junk after the sale. And I've looked at the current ads - still no info about known problems. When I have a known problem with a product, I stop selling it.... end of rant.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Absolutely agree, I think some resellers are really going to catch a cold on this one as I suspect within a year 90% of these machines used with sawgrass inks will have died, what then? Also what annoys me i cannot even buy anothe machine that will take the £250 worth of inks because the laterones have different carts, someone with more money than me needs to do some sueing.


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## BESTBLANKS (Aug 17, 2007)

Any Ricoh printer issues that do not have to do with the motherboard are handled by Ricoh. If the printer is under the 1 yr warranty Ricoh will replace it. I've never seen them repair one. 
If your Ricoh is shutting down after hitting the pwr button that is a motherboard problem. If you call Ricoh you will be directed to Sawgrass. They are handling that one specific problem under warranty. If the printer is within the 1 yr Ricoh warranty Sawgrass will replace it. If it is over a year you are out of warranty. If you choose to purchase a replacement printer from a dealer Sawgrass will give you some free ink to makeup for the ink that was left in the printer ink lines when it broke.

Ricoh Support # 1(800)-Ricoh38


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

What about the nearly new ink carts I have just fitted at a cost of £250? It seems from my reasarch Sawgrass have this market sewn up with Ricoh and Epson and I dont think any of the products are up to the job so I may well just have to quit doing dyesublimation now as not sure I want to buy yet another one of these machines. I think the whole thing sucks sorry and one of these companies or both need taking to court.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

You all hit it dead on the head. The distributors are as much and in some cases more to blame then even Sawgrass. They are the ones that have promoted this printer and promoted it as one you did not have to use frequently. You can go back to the GX7000 thread and see where they were claiming the issues RESOLVED back in early January. Resolved? Seriously? 

They are the ones, knowing the problems exist, that continued to pump them out the door as I am sure they are still doing today with no mention of the issues. 

Without this forum, thank you Rodney, customers would have no idea of the significant failure rate of these printers. Even at that, what percent of dye sub people read this forum or now it even exists? I would guess there are many more failures out there that are never discussed on this forum and those poor people have no clue it is an on-going issue.

Youreally have to question companies that continually keep selling AND promoting printers that they know have significant issue due to Sawgrass. It is very clear they are desperate to get people off the Epson platform as the clock is ticking on the patent protection.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

A bad day indeed when Sawgrass were awarded that patent, its totally ridiculous anyhow as this method of printing has been out for donkeys years and the patent does not cover large format printes so whats the difference? It was a bad day for this industry when they allowed it.


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## TexSub (Aug 27, 2007)

I am wondering if it is about time for a class action lawsuit.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Agreed. The other thing that annoys me is I have recommended this machine to two friends on a sign makers forum who have both bought them.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Big Al said:


> A bad day indeed when Sawgrass were awarded that patent, its totally ridiculous anyhow as this method of printing has been out for donkeys years and the patent does not cover large format printes so whats the difference? It was a bad day for this industry when they allowed it.


Big Al,

The SG '907 patent does not distinguish based on carriage length. SG offers licenses to others that sell their own inks for carriages >42 inches. Those vendors just pay the "toll" and sell their own stuff, but not because SG doesn't have a patent on larger formats.

Good news is that the SG patents "scope" has been effectively narrowed due to the TOG vs. SG litigation.

See my post here that explains the SG patent "scope".

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t148435.html#post884269

As a result of this you can now get alternative inks and save big bucks, at least in the US.

.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks I will look into it. I used to use other inks but my supplier in the UK had to bow to the god that is Sawgrass and if it means I have to continue using their products as no alternative I will close that side of the busines simple as that because if I buy another printer a year or so down the line I will be back to square one. I bet each print on this machine that has packed up has cst about £2.00 for the amount I have done on it.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Big Al said:


> Absolutely agree, I think some resellers are really going to catch a cold on this one as I suspect within a year 90% of these machines used with sawgrass inks will have died, what then? Also what annoys me i cannot even buy anothe machine that will take the £250 worth of inks because the laterones have different carts, someone with more money than me needs to do some sueing.


And if I read above correctly, SG or distributors or someone will replace some of the ink used to fill the tubes if you buy another pos system. According to Best Blanks: "If it is over a year you are out of warranty. If you choose to purchase a replacement printer from a dealer Sawgrass will give you some free ink to makeup for the ink that was left in the printer ink lines when it broke." Now I'm pissed off all over again. 


When my replacement printer arrived, I had a new set of carts, because I knew I'd need them for the order I was trying to fill - but I had to use a large percentage of that ink to refill the new printer. And - yep - I had to buy another set of carts to finish my job. 

I questioned manufacturer, distributor, and everyone along the food chain who would answer their phone. The bad printer which was supposedly under warranty had A LOT of ink in the tubes which I should not have to replace - please send me some ink. That was my argument. They ALL told me I didn't know what I was talking about and my argument fell on deaf ears. 

Read the above post for yourself ... are they really offering ink to replace the lost ink in the tubes for those out of warranty folks who need to buy a replacement printer?! Sweeten the deal by using my argument that they claimed was without merit?! UGH!! 

The inexpensive entry level solution to all the Epson dye sub problems has cost me A LOT of cash! I still get my marketing emails from all these folks - but I've never received an apology or an offer to reimburse my cash. Really? I'm going to buy more for them? Um, no. The lies continue ... I hope this is truly the end of my rant - yet we just keep learning more & more....


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

I tell you what you really couldnt make this up could you. Its just amazing this company is getting away with this.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

TexSub said:


> I am wondering if it is about time for a class action lawsuit.


Yes. 

Class action suits make more money for attorneys than those harmed - but that money comes from the folks who are responsible, so hopefully they can't afford to continue to harm. The good news is that the reputable attorneys are usually willing to foot a lot of the bill for the valid suits. I don't know any names, or I'd pass them along for you. But be sure to choose an attorney based on experience of someone you trust. Your local trusted attorney can likely recommend someone to you. And it should cost nothing for them to evaluate the lawsuit. The evaluation process is the most important part of the endeavor - chasing a bad suit can be more expensive than pouring $$ into empty dye sub promises.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

As for Cobra...

I tried their system with transfer inks (not the hi temp inks) and ran into a little trouble because I let it sit too long before tackling setup. I set it in a corner and forgot about it. We all know - don't sit an Epson in the corner and forget about it. 

When my replacement 3300 quit, I pulled out the Cobra system and called Richard. Wow. Customer service is this man's #1 priority. I cannot offer insight as to the product - beyond the fact that several trusted friends swear by it. I'll know about the product soon, though, as (based on my personal experience) their customer service is far better than "fair to the customer." 

Truly amazing service!


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

I would guess the issue with a class action suit would be the relatively low loss (in comparison) each person has experienced plus how few (in comparison) claimants there would be to file such a suit. An attorney would have to spend serious money to subpoena Sawgrass and all their distributors than conduct interviews trying to determine the scope. 

Sawgrass and their Cartel members have surely calculated this all out which is why they never recalled the defective product, stopped selling the defective product or even warned anyone there was a problem. The cash they are raking in is obviously more than covering all the warranty related issues. 

There really seems to be only two things we all can do. First, financial - do not buy from the associated companies. Second, keep posting so other people do not fall into the same trap.


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## FAT DADDY (Sep 4, 2008)

i was having clogging issues and cleaned head then flushed head. now the printer will not go on at all!!! has anyone experienced theses problems?
thanks


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

FAT DADDY said:


> i was having clogging issues and cleaned head then flushed head. now the printer will not go on at all!!! has anyone experienced theses problems?
> thanks


You cleaned and flushed heads on a Ricoh printer?


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## BESTBLANKS (Aug 17, 2007)

I would call Sawgrass Support first at (888) 253-1679. If it is not a Sawgrass issue call Ricoh at (800) 38-Ricoh.


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## FAT DADDY (Sep 4, 2008)

yes i did and would not clear up then it stopped printing in middle of test print and now doesnt even turn on.I hit the power button it flashes for a second and nothing.
would not recommend this printer. only had it since march 2010


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

UK suppliers seem to be in denial, I think the ****e is about to hit the fan big time.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

FAT DADDY said:


> yes i did and would not clear up then it stopped printing in middle of test print and now doesnt even turn on.I hit the power button it flashes for a second and nothing.
> would not recommend this printer. only had it since march 2010


Sounds like the same issue that has been happening with a good number of Ricohs. Understand it is not a Ricoh issue but a Sawgrass issue. Blaming Ricoh is exactly what they hope you do.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Sawgrass have offered to replace my leaking carts that blew the machine IMHO but only if I show them a receipt for a new printer and there is no way I am buying another Ricoh or their inks. I have an alternate set up and did a few mugs and shirts today and am well pleased with the results (thank you T-shirt forum members for the heads up).


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Big Al said:


> UK suppliers seem to be in denial, I think the ****e is about to hit the fan big time.


The only reason it is not in complete denial here is this forum. You think if you called any of the Sawgrass Cartel distributors here in the states they would mention all the problems with Sawgrass/Ricoh combo?

You can go back to post from Sawgrass Cartel members back in Janauary of this year claiming the problems were solved. 

These printers were propped up on a pedestal as the cure to all the issues part time dye subbers have with Sawgrass inks clogging printers. Turns out now that all those sales pitches were completley false and in fact now suggest you print frequently just like Epsons.

It is what it is - people just need to be informed and this forum allows such.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Big Al said:


> Sawgrass have offered to replace my leaking carts that blew the machine IMHO but only if I show them a receipt for a new printer /quote]
> 
> WTF? You paid for the ink carts and they are bad. Wherever the ink came from should replace them. Period. None of their business what you do with the replacement carts. Does Wally World only refund or exchange if you prove what you're going to do with the money/product? You can use the carts, smash them into pieces, sell them, stick them in your garden -- doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

They were brand new inks bought from Magic Touch. They asked to see a copy of the invoice which I scanned and sent them then a month later they came out with this. I bought the printer from a company that was just selling printers and had nothing to do with dye sublimation which probably weakens my case somewhat. If I had orginally bought the printer as a complete dye sublmation system, maybe I would have got a bit more help. I was on my 2nd set of inks from new so the printer has hardly been used as I dont do a great deal of sublimation work. When I first contacted Magic Touch the guy there told me not to expect more than 18 months or so out of a printer. I would accept this if it was a £100 job but I paid 4 times that for the Ricoh.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Big Al said:


> They were brand new inks bought from Magic Touch. They asked to see a copy of the invoice which I scanned and sent them then a month later they came out with this. I bought the printer from a company that was just selling printers and had nothing to do with dye sublimation which probably weakens my case somewhat. If I had orginally bought the printer as a complete dye sublmation system, maybe I would have got a bit more help. I was on my 2nd set of inks from new so the printer has hardly been used as I dont do a great deal of sublimation work. When I first contacted Magic Touch the guy there told me not to expect more than 18 months or so out of a printer. I would accept this if it was a £100 job but I paid 4 times that for the Ricoh.


Wonder if the same guy tells people looking to purchase a Ricoh with Sawgrass ink to expect it to only last 18 months?


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Funny you should say that as it was exactly the question I asked.


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## CasualThreads (Jul 26, 2007)

Just found the mother board on mine went bad also - had it since March of 2010 and used it very little. Thought I would power it up and do some gifts for xmas, but it only flashes for a few seconds and won't power up. Worst investment ever! Bought it from Conde...when I found others having a problem, it was too late to buy the extended warranty, but then why would I need that? I paid enough for the machine and inks initially from Conde, so pay more for a warranty that covers their quality issues?


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

We have a consummer affairs program over here on TV called WatchDog I am seriously thinking of contacted them over this. Any UK users want to join me?​


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## rhorho (Feb 20, 2009)

Very common problem.

Sawgrass takes responsibility if you are useing sawgrass inks in the printer for dyesub.

If this happens, just call sawgrass. no need to call Ricoh.

I personally think that they should replace the printer even if the warrantee is up. It sounds like most printers die after about a year. I used my printer a lot and other have used it seldom and it still happened after about a year.

Delivery took longer then sawgrass said but everything eventually came and everything works perfect now.

I hope this information helps.


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## FAT DADDY (Sep 4, 2008)

what did they replace for you rhorho?


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## FAT DADDY (Sep 4, 2008)

how many people just threw printer away?
what other alternative than throwing it away?
they take up alot of room just sitting there?


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## rhorho (Feb 20, 2009)

FAT DADDY said:


> what did they replace for you rhorho?


They replaced the printer. I didn't have to send them the one that died. They also sent me 2 new ink colours of my choice. I think it was 2 but it could of been 3.

Rhorho


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Engravers Journal

Go to page 29, the last colum.

best explaination the Ricoh representative could give him was the sublimation ink may have caused the problem.

I know its been said time after time its the ink but this is the first time I have seen in a article were Ricoh or the SG ink problem has been mentioned. And were Ricoh rep says it "could be" the sublimation ink.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

freebird1963 said:


> Engravers Journal
> 
> Go to page 29, the last colum.
> 
> ...


Good find - it still amazes me after all this time that Sawgrass and their Cartel members who continued to sell these things knowing there was issues have never had the courtesy to just be honest with people and inform them of what the real issues have been. Customer service is great thing to offer but when it comes down to it I prefer to deal with honest vendors.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

When tossing my first bad printer, I kept the paper tray. It was nice to have a tray for legal and another for letter sized transfers. I also kept the waste tank.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Is the waste tank hard to replace ? Mine is flashing its nearly full.
I couldn't find any videos online showing it being done.


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## cornpopps (Jan 8, 2010)

freebird1963 said:


> Is the waste tank hard to replace ? Mine is flashing its nearly full.
> I couldn't find any videos online showing it being done.


Not sure if you needed it on a 7000 but here you go.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6h1s4_BrRY&feature=plcp&context=C3a92982UDOEgsToPDskKXjtB0sUjZNbfIBpa-rz02[/media]


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## FAT DADDY (Sep 4, 2008)

rhorho was the printer still under warranty when they replaced it?


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

cornpopps said:


> Not sure if you needed it on a 7000 but here you go.
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6h1s4_BrRY&feature=plcp&context=C3a92982UDOEgsToPDskKXjtB0sUjZNbfIBpa-rz02[/media]


Thanks. I looked at the but since it said resetting I didn't watch it as I wanted to physically remove it. Guess thats what I get for assuming what the video was about.
Thanks


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

Sawgrass didn't do S&*% for me. In fact they told me that everyone who says that SG replaced there printer, or helped get it fixed, or upgraded there printer for a reduced cost was spreading rumors and lying to everyone. So I guess you are ether telling us an untruth or they are. Hum... Who to believe? The big company who uses customers as lab rats or you, someone with nothing to gain or loose form telling your story. SG told me today that it isn't there problem. 

I have a 3300 that died a few months back. Was told SG would help in some way to get the printer replaced/repaired. Today I was told that they do not help and that there ink is not at fault. They actually told me Ricoh would have honored the warranty if it had happened in the fires year, just one issue, using any ink other than Ricoh in the printer voids the warranty. 

I am thinking we all need to get together and start a class action law suit against SG. I am contacting the US Consumer Products Division today about this and would ask that all others that have issues with SG ink in any printer do the same. 

We have a lot of issues with SG like for instance, we found out after the fact that they had told users not to use outdated cartridges (which we didn't) and to remove cartridges when they go out of date. They also say don't remove the cartridges until empty, guess were the date is? You have to remove the cartridge to get the date. 

It seams to me that they are using us as there test lab. Why invest in testing when you let the users purchase the equipment and buy your products and see if anything goes wrong. I don’t know about you all but I don't like spending my hard earned money to do the testing for a big company. 

Anyway I would like to see what they say if a class action suit is filed or the government tells them to stop selling untested products. 

I am out of the dye sub business until I can find another supplier and reliable equipment.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Will it matter , probably not but go to their facebook page and put your tell of woe up there like I did and at least one other. IF everyone did maybe they get the message or maybe it will help others in thinking twice in buy a SG product.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

davej1956 said:


> Sawgrass didn't do S&*% for me. In fact they told me that everyone who says that SG replaced there printer, or helped get it fixed, or upgraded there printer for a reduced cost was spreading rumors and lying to everyone. So I guess you are ether telling us an untruth or they are. Hum... Who to believe? The big company who uses customers as lab rats or you, someone with nothing to gain or loose form telling your story. SG told me today that it isn't there problem.
> 
> I have a 3300 that died a few months back. Was told SG would help in some way to get the printer replaced/repaired. Today I was told that they do not help and that there ink is not at fault. They actually told me Ricoh would have honored the warranty if it had happened in the fires year, just one issue, using any ink other than Ricoh in the printer voids the warranty.
> 
> ...


Well stated - it appears to be clear that there was a real lack of the testing needed before dumping this on the market. Let us not also forget that distributors continued to not only sell this solution but highly recommended it to customers even though there was a known problem going back to late 2010. Just do not get how companies sell products they know have significant defects.


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## tshrtman2000 (Aug 25, 2011)

welcome to the world of door stop richo printers


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

tshrtman2000 said:


> welcome to the world of door stop richo printers


 I would like to see a class action law suit against SG and Ricoh on this issue, but thinking about it today I may try what the woman did to Honda last month. She didn't look to take them for a huge amount of money, she sued in small claims court and won. 

I wonder if SG and Ricoh would send anyone to answer a small claims court case in a small town in Arkansas or if I would win because they didn't answer the summons. Think I will try it. It only cost $50 to file which is less than the cost of one of the cartridges they sell us to test for them. 

Maybe all us desktop users should file small clams cases against them. I bet they would sit up and pay attention then.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Well I am keeping my broken 7000 and leaking carts in the UK if anyone overhere ever wants supporting evidence to take someone to court and that I am afraid may well pull in Magic Touch which is a shame as I quite like the company and know Jim the CEO but if you run with wolves......


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

davej1956 said:


> I would like to see a class action law suit against SG and Ricoh on this issue, but thinking about it today I may try what the woman did to Honda last month. She didn't look to take them for a huge amount of money, she sued in small claims court and won.
> 
> I wonder if SG and Ricoh would send anyone to answer a small claims court case in a small town in Arkansas or if I would win because they didn't answer the summons. Think I will try it. It only cost $50 to file which is less than the cost of one of the cartridges they sell us to test for them.
> 
> Maybe all us desktop users should file small clams cases against them. I bet they would sit up and pay attention then.


Do not let Sawgrass or any of their Cartel members fool you into thinking Ricoh has anything to do with the problems. Just like with the Epson printer they do their best to cloud the issue by even mentioning the printer brand. For years they got away with the old battle cry "Epson printers clog". Epson printers do not clog. Epson printers using poor quality Sawgrass ink clogs. Ricohs do not fail at this rate. Ricohs using Sawgrass ink fail at this rate.

The Cartel sold thousands of Ricohs/Sawgrass printers with a marketing pitch that Ricohs did not clog like Epsons when used infrequently". Year later it was. "ooops we were wrong - you need to print frequently using the Ricoh". During this past year did any distributor warn new client of all the issues they knew surrounded the printers before they sold it to them or just turn a blind eye and keep pushing them out the door?


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

Riderz Ready said:


> Do not let Sawgrass or any of their Cartel members fool you into thinking Ricoh has anything to do with the problems. Just like with the Epson printer they do their best to cloud the issue by even mentioning the printer brand. For years they got away with the old battle cry "Epson printers clog". Epson printers do not clog. Epson printers using poor quality Sawgrass ink clogs. Ricohs do not fail at this rate. Ricohs using Sawgrass ink fail at this rate.
> 
> The Cartel sold thousands of Ricohs/Sawgrass printers with a marketing pitch that Ricohs did not clog like Epsons when used infrequently". Year later it was. "ooops we were wrong - you need to print frequently using the Ricoh". During this past year did any distributor warn new client of all the issues they knew surrounded the printers before they sold it to them or just turn a blind eye and keep pushing them out the door?


 I agree. I am a system analyst by profession and have been working with and on printers for over 30 years. The electronics in them don’t just fail or short out on their own. There has to be some one part that fails and cause the system board to fail. That is what is happening here. 

It is not Ricoh's problem it is Sawgrass and they alone are at fault. They are liars, they blame everyone but themselves, and frankly when I talked to them yesterday the lady I talked to said that all of us on this forum are spreading rumors and lying about them. She went on to say that it was NOT their problem that is was strictly a Ricoh problem. 

Don’t be too hard on the suppliers, they are likely in the same boat as we are on this. I would bet you they went to SG with the complaints and were shoveled the same line of BS that they are feeding us. I do fault them for continuing to push these printer packages knowing they will fail and not attempting to help when they do. At least one dealer has tried to help. Conde has helped getting replacements for their customers and then sold extended warrantees to cover the pending filers. When or if I do purchase a new one it will be from Conde so they earned my business.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

davej1956 said:


> I agree. I am a system analyst by profession and have been working with and on printers for over 30 years. The electronics in them don’t just fail or short out on their own. There has to be some one part that fails and cause the system board to fail. That is what is happening here.
> 
> It is not Ricoh's problem it is Sawgrass and they alone are at fault. They are liars, they blame everyone but themselves, and frankly when I talked to them yesterday the lady I talked to said that all of us on this forum are spreading rumors and lying about them. She went on to say that it was NOT their problem that is was strictly a Ricoh problem.
> 
> Don’t be too hard on the suppliers, they are likely in the same boat as we are on this. I would bet you they went to SG with the complaints and were shoveled the same line of BS that they are feeding us. I do fault them for continuing to push these printer packages knowing they will fail and not attempting to help when they do. At least one dealer has tried to help. Conde has helped getting replacements for their customers and then sold extended warrantees to cover the pending filers. When or if I do purchase a new one it will be from Conde so they earned my business.


This again shows the power of this forum. Without it no one would have a clue that this is a wide spread issue.

I do disagree with the statement the suppliers are in the same boat we are. They have known for over a year that this is a problem. There are statements going back over a year that the problem was resolved. It is like a car dealer selling you a car they know is a lemon and having significant issues and when it dies they offer you a discount on another car of the same make and model. Seriously you would by another car from them? Why were the printers sold in the first place? Would you sell t-shirts that you knew were falling apart after a few washes? Of course not - None of us would much of a business left if we acted in that manner.

They are in this up to their necks right beside Sawgrass. If they would have done the right thing and simply told Sawgrass they would not continue to knowingly sell faulty systems to their customers Sawgrass would have been forced to come to the plate much faster.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

I agree, I phoned Magic Touch UK and was asked what did I expect no printer will last more than 2 years? Well what I expect is to be told this when I buy the damned thing.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

I have a never-opened replacement 3300 and inks. I am not self-promoting...quite the opposite. I wanted to sell it, but when a buyer came along I couldn't bring myself to do it. And I can't make myself use it. It comes back to the question I kept asking conde: how can I build a segment of my biz to the point of daily printing, when I have repeatedly gotten stuck in the middle of large jobs with a broken printer? I've wasted a ton of expensive ink trying to keep printers alive, only to find myself purchasing transfers printed for me in a pinch in order to finish jobs! And still, no one can or will tell me why.

Lots of small claims judgments is intriguing, but I don't think it will work. Not enough loss to be noticed. Indeed, maybe no losses. Obtaining a judgment is the easy part. Collecting on that judgment will be the true challenge.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

Big Al said:


> I agree, I phoned Magic Touch UK and was asked what did I expect no printer will last more than 2 years? Well what I expect is to be told this when I buy the damned thing.


Geez they arent very knolegable are they. I have a printer I won for doing a survey on another printer almost 15 years ago and it still works just like it did the day they gave it to me. I also have a Epson 7800 that I use for my screen positives that is 5 years old with no issues, and I have 2 or 3 other printer ranging in age from 3 to 10 years with little of no problem. In fact the only 2 printers I have that have issues were both running Sawgrass Dye Sub Ink. The Ricoh GX3300 and a Epson C88, both dead.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

American logoZ said:


> I have a never-opened replacement 3300 and inks. I am not self-promoting...quite the opposite. I wanted to sell it, but when a buyer came along I couldn't bring myself to do it. And I can't make myself use it. It comes back to the question I kept asking conde: how can I build a segment of my biz to the point of daily printing, when I have repeatedly gotten stuck in the middle of large jobs with a broken printer? I've wasted a ton of expensive ink trying to keep printers alive, only to find myself purchasing transfers printed for me in a pinch in order to finish jobs! And still, no one can or will tell me why.
> 
> Lots of small claims judgments is intriguing, but I don't think it will work. Not enough loss to be noticed. Indeed, maybe no losses. Obtaining a judgment is the easy part. Collecting on that judgment will be the true challenge.


 Why don’t you put the original Ricoh inks in it and run it as a regular ink jet? That was another thing Sawgrass said, that these printers failed with any type ink in them. I would bet you dollars to donuts it doesn't fail in a year to 18 months. If you aren't going to sell it or try dye sub in it you could prove something for us. 

As for the small claims court, I think we could all get damages and punitive damages as well due to the damage Sawgrass caused each of our businesses. The real damages would likely be under $1000 but the punitive could be up to $5000 (here anyway). As for collecting in Arkansas you can garnishee the wages and income of an individual or company that refuses to pay a small claims judgment in a timely manner. This could add up to a large sum but like you say as big as they are it likely would be decimal dust to them.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Its not just the Ricoh for me though I also have an expensive Epson 1800 that I converted to Magic Touch's bulk dyesub system that was nothing but trouble with clogged heads and doing so many cleans I must have used up hundreds of pounds worth of ink and eventually had to fit an external waste ink system eventually that machine also also packed up but I am sure with the original inks it would still be going strong.


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

davej1956 said:


> Why don’t you put the original Ricoh inks in it and run it as a regular ink jet? That was another thing Sawgrass said, that these printers failed with any type ink in them. I would bet you dollars to donuts it doesn't fail in a year to 18 months. If you aren't going to sell it or try dye sub in it you could prove something for us.
> 
> As for the small claims court, I think we could all get damages and punitive damages as well due to the damage Sawgrass caused each of our businesses. The real damages would likely be under $1000 but the punitive could be up to $5000 (here anyway). As for collecting in Arkansas you can garnishee the wages and income of an individual or company that refuses to pay a small claims judgment in a timely manner. This could add up to a large sum but like you say as big as they are it likely would be decimal dust to them.


Yea we have a Epson c88 with SG inks. The ink cartridges exploded literally 3 weeks after we installed them. Printer is toast. We stayed out of dye sub after that for 3 years until the toasted Ricoh. Ogh and i know for a fact that it would still be up and running if i used Epson ink because i purchased 2 at the same time 1 for dye sub and 1 for transfer paper. The transfer paper one is still running strong with no issues.


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