# Sublimation print costs?



## TUANISAPPAREL (Oct 14, 2012)

I just came across this old post and it has me double thinking sublimation. Is this at all true? If so how can any of you make any money. Thanks! 

"My Epson 4800 uses a minimum 1 ml for 80 sq in. of area covered. Add to that the cost for head cleanings, purgings, screwed up transfers, other sources of waste consumption and so forth. Those use tremendous amounts of ink which far outweight the amount used and costs for the transfers.Assuming that there is no waste - don't I wish - at what the suppliers charge us for Sawgrass ink in our area, it costs a little over 2 cents a square inch just for ink. Then guess how much you are wasting and its cost since you cannot nail it down due to the numerous variables. So anyone who says ink is cheap as borscht, has not yet figured out what is really going on.I spoke with a supplier of printers and presses for cut and sew shirts and asked how those guys could generate any profits with these crazy ink consumption rates and costs. He said they can't. Their cost is about only 40 cents a garment. That's the difference.*Even if he's exaggerating, look at our ink cost with no waste - on a 20"x 30" shirt, 2 sides, it would be at least $24.00. Add in the cost of your shirt. Now you have made a $40-$50 dollar shirt, with no profit for your time, electricity, transfer paper, deprecitraion of equipment, waste ink and materials, etc., which you can sell for maybe 20-30 bucks if you are lucky. Wow.*Don't believe Sawgrass' "calculations". They are innacurate and totally incomplete. Just remember, they have a vested interest in those numbers. They are the ones who want you to believe and buy. Look at real world numbers from those who are not afraid to give you the true story."

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## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

TUANISAPPAREL said:


> I just came across this old post and it has me double thinking sublimation. Is this at all true? If so how can any of you make any money. Thanks!
> 
> "My Epson 4800 uses a minimum 1 ml for 80 sq in. of area covered. Add to that the cost for head cleanings, purgings, screwed up transfers, other sources of waste consumption and so forth. Those use tremendous amounts of ink which far outweight the amount used and costs for the transfers.Assuming that there is no waste - don't I wish - at what the suppliers charge us for Sawgrass ink in our area, it costs a little over 2 cents a square inch just for ink. Then guess how much you are wasting and its cost since you cannot nail it down due to the numerous variables. So anyone who says ink is cheap as borscht, has not yet figured out what is really going on.I spoke with a supplier of printers and presses for cut and sew shirts and asked how those guys could generate any profits with these crazy ink consumption rates and costs. He said they can't. Their cost is about only 40 cents a garment. That's the difference.*Even if he's exaggerating, look at our ink cost with no waste - on a 20"x 30" shirt, 2 sides, it would be at least $24.00. Add in the cost of your shirt. Now you have made a $40-$50 dollar shirt, with no profit for your time, electricity, transfer paper, deprecitraion of equipment, waste ink and materials, etc., which you can sell for maybe 20-30 bucks if you are lucky. Wow.*Don't believe Sawgrass' "calculations". They are innacurate and totally incomplete. Just remember, they have a vested interest in those numbers. They are the ones who want you to believe and buy. Look at real world numbers from those who are not afraid to give you the true story."
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using T-Shirt Forums


This is a good exercise for me, as I'm looking at adding sublimation.

Let's say 1ml per shirt (80 sq. inches) is correct for a printer.

The Epson 7010 is popular. 4 bags of ink are $155 each and hold 110ml each. So $620 for 440ml

1ml per shirt, so that's 440 shirts
So per shirt cost for ink is (620/440) = $1.41
Add your paper ($33.83 for 100 sheets of 13" x 19") = $0.34, or 34 cents
Now add a poly shirt - let's say $4, even though they have come down in price.

So total cost, (without ink wasted for head cleaning etc):

$1.41 (ink - assuming 80 inches of ink on a 13'x19' sheet of paper. Maybe an image with a title above and below it) + $0.34 (paper) + $4 (shirt) = $5.75

Add some electricity....say 25 cents

My maths says $6.00 cost per shirt.

I'd be selling a 1-off custom shirt for $20 to $25 here

On 440 shirts, (a full charge of ink bags, assuming all colours are used evenly), I would make between $6160 and $8360 profit.

The assumption is 1g of ink per shirt, as per the original poster, and no ink wasted for head cleaning, but even if you use an additional whole set of 4 bags just for cleaning, that still only costs you $620 out of your 6k to 8K profit margin (ex labour)


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## bwalton (Feb 11, 2013)

I don't have a lot of experience in all the dye-sub stuff so I will accept your cost calculations as reasonable and fair. I do have a lot of experience as a consumer, just ask Visa...

I did notice you did not account for waste, in poor jobs, mistakes happen, I was watching a conde video the other night where david Goss printed a t-shirt upside down so it happens to the best of them......now what would be a fair percentage on 440 T's as mistakes ( 1%, 2%, 10% I don't know) but we can leave that.

Now as a consumer when I buy something I like to support the local guy so I always check and he could be the nicest guy on the planet, he could be my neighbor but if he doesn't have the price I move on...

So back to your example, 6.00 cost per T

Thats 440.00 x 6.00 = 2440.00 cost

Now lets use a market price for the finished product. Now you can go into any Walmart in the county and get a photo T for $10.96 You can find them on line for $8.25. Now you can say I do better work, I customize more, I print bigger images and on and on, but the bottom line is the average guy looking for a picture of his kid on a t-shirt is going to look at Walmart's 11 bucks and your 20 or more and where do you think he is going to go.........

So 440 x 11.00 = 4840 -2440 = 2400.00 

2400/440 = 5.54 per shirt

Now thats quite a bit different, your still making money but not the huge amount your estimating. Now if you have to account for waste in mistakes, waste ink etc it could be a lot less.

As I said what I don't know about Dye-sub would fill a dump truck but I do know that 99% of consumers look at price first and if your not in the ballpark your not in the game......

Just my 2 cents worth
Bill


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## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

That's true Bill,

But for me, we don't have Walmart here. So if you want 1 shirt with your daughter's face on, I'm going to charge you $20 to $25! If you don't want to pay that, fine! But my that is what I charge and that is what my time is worth.

With your example, if you can make $5 in 5 minutes, that's ok in my book. If you get 4 shirts with the same design, that's even more shirts per 5 minutes. Something to do in the evenings while you do your accounting and wait for the plotter to finish cutting that new road sign or set of decals!

I hear where you are coming from, though. It would be pretty tough in your market, by the sounds of it. Perhaps shirts is not the way to go for sublimation in your area.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Simple solution ...


*DIVORCE SG! *


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

20vK said:


> This is a good exercise for me, as I'm looking at adding sublimation.
> 
> Let's say 1ml per shirt (80 sq. inches) is correct for a printer.
> 
> ...


You make an excellent point! Now lets move into the Large Format Dye Sublimation market and use the same numbers but adjust the ink price to $115/liter. 

1ml per shirt, so that's 4000 shirts
So per shirt cost for ink is (460/4000) = $0.115
Add your paper ($115 for roll of 44" x 275') = $0.114 or 12 cents/ square foot.
Now add a poly shirt - let's say $4, even though they have come down in price.

So total cost, (without ink wasted for head cleaning etc):

$0.24 (ink - assuming 80 inches of ink on a 2 sq.ft of paper. Maybe an image with a title above and below it) + $0.23 (paper) + $4 (shirt) = $4.47

Add some electricity....say 25 cents

Total cost is less than $4.75/shirt with cleaning, etc. with most of the cost being in the shirt itself. And keep in mind, I put in 2 sq.ft of paper and ink calculations which would offset waste. All in all, that is why I do not sell small format dye sublimation. I believe it's a rip off product.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

danielschelin said:


> You make an excellent point! Now lets move into the Large Format Dye Sublimation market and use the same numbers but adjust the ink price to $115/liter.
> 
> 1ml per shirt, so that's 4000 shirts
> So per shirt cost for ink is (460/4000) = $0.115
> ...


I can't disagree that large format is the way to go _if_ your core business is sublimation tshirts, including allovers and cut and sew ... but real costs to produce goods must also include the equipment costs to produce the goods, and of course overhead.

This means just for equipment add $1 to the cost for the first 20K tshirts for example once you bought your large format printer, RIP, and monster heat press.

If you are not doing allovers and/or cut and sew then best to rethink wide format if you don't need > 13 x 19.


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## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Simple solution ...
> 
> 
> *DIVORCE SG! *


What are the other options?

Is the ink quality consistent?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

20vK said:


> What are the other options?
> 
> Is the ink quality consistent?


Check your inbox for a divorce attorney referral.


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## paintersspouse (Jul 26, 2012)

I use a 7010WF and my ink cost is .24 ML. I could get it down to .19 if I bought by the liter but I don't do enough printing to justify that.


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## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> Check your inbox for a divorce attorney referral.


Hilarious!

We're not actually married yet - I only just met them. I guess you could say we were about to date.

But I just saw a gorgeous brunette out the corner of my eye, so may ask her instead. I don't think she's a gold digger, either


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## bwalton (Feb 11, 2013)

20vK said:


> That's true Bill,
> 
> But for me, we don't have Walmart here. So if you want 1 shirt with your daughter's face on, I'm going to charge you $20 to $25! If you don't want to pay that, fine! But my that is what I charge and that is what my time is worth.
> 
> ...


Everyone's situation is unique, everyone's area is different, Due-Sub use to be very much a niche market where you might have a couple of people in a town that did it but none of the "big" retailers were involved.... Today that's different, I guess some of the really big Dye-Sub companies hooked into contracts with the national retail chains so now Dye-Sub it much more competitive and easily available in your "one shop" experience. Most of them have them, Walmart, Walgreens, Cosco, most of the portrait studios etc etc and its not just t-shirts they carry all the Dye-Sub stuff mugs, puzzles, mouse pads etc. It makes it much more difficult to compete....... I guess you have to be that much more creative in your business model........

No Walmart eh, I guess you must live in a town called paradise.

Bill


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## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

bwalton said:


> Everyone's situation is unique, everyone's area is different, Due-Sub use to be very much a niche market where you might have a couple of people in a town that did it but none of the "big" retailers were involved.... Today that's different, I guess some of the really big Dye-Sub companies hooked into contracts with the national retail chains so now Dye-Sub it much more competitive and easily available in your "one shop" experience. Most of them have them, Walmart, Walgreens, Cosco, most of the portrait studios etc etc and its not just t-shirts they carry all the Dye-Sub stuff mugs, puzzles, mouse pads etc. It makes it much more difficult to compete....... I guess you have to be that much more creative in your business model........
> 
> No Walmart eh, I guess you must live in a town called paradise.
> 
> Bill


An Island called paradise, actually!

But 1 where a loaf of bread costs $5.30 and importing anything costs a minimum of $100. Which you have to on a regular basis, because there is no Walmart


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