# I Need Some Serious Advice About Web Designer Troubles!!



## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

Okay, Sorry for the length of the post, but I want you guys to see the whole story. 
I'm in the process of getting a site created by a web developing company. Here's the story: I hired these guys because they're other sites looked very good, very professional. So, they make me a concept mockup site, and i really liked it. It had gradients on the buttons and everything was clean and in good locations; so I gave it the go-ahead. 

Once they showed me the site in html there where all kinds of elements that were different, granted they were details, but I'm a HUGE stickler for details. There were boxes that didn't line up with other boxes, buttons that were completely of their respective content box, and many other examples. At first when they showed me, I figured no big deal, it's in the beginning process. 

So, the lady creating my site tells me to send of screen shots of how I'd like my content added, like the FAQ page, Price page, contact us page, and so on. So, I send over pages exactly how I want them. I tell her to use gradients and install the wording exactly. She does none of this. So now I'm upset so I created my own elements (buttons, content boxes like "sign up for update" boxes, stuff like that) And they said it would be another $500 to add that stuff. I get that I already okayed their mockup and it would be a hassle for them to install my stuff, but it comes down to I don't trust them to put together my content, all that they're doing literally copying and pasting my words. 

The entire process costs me $2500 and I paid $1200 upfront and another $1000 when I saw the mockup (i should never have paid that $1000 so early, that was dumb) But the reason I'm paying so much is because I figured there'd be some artistic discretion on their part, and that they'd be able to create elements that would be eye appealing, but all they've done is literally copy and pasted my words and installed it with the quickest possible setup. I understand that time is money, but if i wanted someone to turn my content into code I could have hired a free lancer for thousands less. 

I never signed any form of contract except one that states I don't have to pay in full until I'm completely satisfied. I'm thinking of telling them I want a full refund unless they make the changes I asked for. What do you guys think. I'm in a crappy situation.
Thanks for your help
-Travis


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## SaphiraDesign (Sep 18, 2009)

Does your site need a shopping cart?

If they showed you a mockup and quoted you a price of x, they should adhere to that price and the design they showed you!

Nowadays, its easier to create websites. There are so many templates and they can be easily modified. 

Don't let the big guys fool you. Tell them to meet your expectations for the original price. If not, go elsewhere.


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

No shopping cart, it's more of a prices shown call for a quote and order site. I think I deserve a refund because there is no way that their work is worth $2500.


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## RMC (Mar 31, 2009)

Wow..2500 and the content doesn't even line up..I could prob make a way better site. I suggest you get your money back.


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah, it's insane!! I should have done more research.


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Wow, that is such a bummer...a lot of money to spend - especially if you don't get what you were expecting to get..

Thinking about it though, what are the chances of you getting a refund? they could say we have put in the time and so we have to be paid...so, maybe before going gung ho and throttling try to get them to see your side of it and why you are feeling disappointed with the service they are giving you...

Tell them that you were hoping to put their web address at the bottom of the web page, like "site designed by: XYZ" and ask them if they would be happy to put their name to such shoddy work...tell them that you will have a high traffic site and that if the site looks awesome its win win for all involved as they may snag some more customers from it...I did this for my site and it has worked out nicely so far..

Also though, if they are using just HTML that is a bit of worry..they, I hope, have some CSS going on as that is what makes sites look uniform and decent..ask them about it - what languages are they using to build the site? plain old html ain't really enough these days and for 2.5g its a real rip off...

Good luck with it anyway...whatever way it pans out..


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## RMC (Mar 31, 2009)

Do you have any screen shots of the work they have done?


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

Here's the link. Let me know if I'm crazy or if the site is okay. Look at the right side especially.

Clover


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

I think it looks fine...can't see anything wrong with the right hand side...


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## thedeadpress (Mar 12, 2009)

I can see what you mean, for me the t-shirts in the main header need spreading out a bit, the quote click me button is out of position (at least in FF) and the box needs to go up in line with left hand column, need a low price bit needs to be same width as rest of side bar and there are some padding issues with the bullet points The footer is a bit of a mess and the myspace etc links don't work.

Is that the kind of things concerning you?

I suppose you have to decide if you want your money back or them to fix the problems, I dont know if you'd get a complete refund - depends on their terms & conditions.
Do you want your site up and running or the long old haul of trying to get your money back with no site and no more cash to get it done elsewhere?


Providing them with a snagging list for them to complete doesn't seem unreasonable for the money you've spent. Keep your remaining $300 until your happy.

Why are the files .php when its just XHTML (that has validation errors by the way)?

I'm no expert mind!


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

The money is spent... can't change that...(unless they have a satisfaction guarantee?)
I would call them and be cool about it... but i would firmly say that you have spent quite a 
bit of money and would like the site to be to your liking... 

I think the site in the link you provided looks fine btw... using xp with ie7... 
just a little pricy... good luck with sales... and after you make a bunch of money, you can look back
and not feel so bad about the cost of the site...


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah, maybe I'm over reacting. Maybe I should just get them to fix all of the stuff that wrong and be done with it. I don't know. It just seems like there's a lot of stuff not right for the amount of money that I've spent.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

You should always ask for a list of web addresses to sites they have designed. Then call and talk to the owner of those sites.

I thought the site looked fine, a few minor issues that could easily be fixed.


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## Gioclone (Jul 9, 2009)

zymerguyer said:


> No shopping cart, it's more of a prices shown call for a quote and order site. I think I deserve a refund because there is no way that their work is worth $2500.


Sorry but that depends on the site, dont be cheap or cheap minded. A lot goes in to a personalized site.

On the other hand, they need to comply to your requirements. Make a fuss about things not matching alignment and such.

A good site cost money and time for both the client and the firm or designer. Be fair, you wouldnt want your client telling you YOUR SHIRT AINT WORTH WHAT THEY ARE PAYING.

Just push them in the right direction.

Make a list of things they need to fix first, than make a list of demands you feel fall between the scope of things already agreed for.

Personally, we do high-end sites and some clients want a $10,000 but expect to pay $800. 

Using templates is a sin, yeah they look great, but integration is a dud. 

Simply tell them what you want, your the PAYING client.


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## EnMartian (Feb 14, 2008)

I see what you mean about the alignment, but it probably isn't something the average customer would notice. 

Before you demand your money back, I'd take a breath, sit down and list your concerns. A lot of the changes you want should be pretty simple to make. It would probably be worth it for the company to make them just from a customer service standpoint.


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah, the longer I think about it the more I calm down. I think I'll just to work it out with them and just keep my head. Hopefully it works out. Thanks a lot for everyone's opinion!


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## stuffnthingz (Oct 1, 2007)

I manage hundreds of domains for my day job and receive design specs from 3rd party graphics folks and I can tell you that I have to have my devs work to the pixel! It is absolutely unacceptable to NOT be able to make a fully working site look EXACTLY like the mock up. I do it every day and yes it is alot of work and worth every penny of that $2500. So you stick to your guns and make them do their job! /gets off the soap box... I feel for you, that infuriates me when I see work like that. Yes the average person/customer likely would never notice, but you paid for something and didn't get it, period. Good luck and keep on them to get it right.


***update - your faq subject text is too faint, make it darker green and bold...


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

You need to get some stuff fixed, like:

The text size in you FAQ is a lot smaller than the rest of the pages. 
Why does the "get a quote" column bounce around from the left to right side, is that supposed to be that way? They should all stay on the left or the right, not bounce around depending on the page. 
The images for you facebook/twitter/youtube aren't linked & they are boring black and white.
In your "sign up for newsletter" area, the submit button is spaced differently from the field, depending on the page. 

This is really a poor job by a supposed professional web designer. To be honest, this could have been created using a template for about $150.


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## Gioclone (Jul 9, 2009)

chobay said:


> You need to get some stuff fixed, like:
> 
> The text size in you FAQ is a lot smaller than the rest of the pages.
> Why does the "get a quote" column bounce around from the left to right side, is that supposed to be that way? They should all stay on the left or the right, not bounce around depending on the page.
> ...


Heck no!

Please dont give miss information. How would you do all that work with just $150?

I'll give you a template and you can build me a site like that for $150? PLLEEEE AAAA SSSSEEE!


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

Need a low Price? text is too close to the edge of the box. It would be cool, when click on one of the breadcrumb tabs, if it stayed green in color, so you knew which page you were on. Too much empty space between your logo and the text, make the logo bigger? Not too keen on the logo arc warp. 

Sorry, I know this is not a site review, but I can't help but point stuff out..


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## Gioclone (Jul 9, 2009)

No you are telling Travis that his site is not worth what he is getting and thats just plainly rude.

the site made need fixing but I dont think that the developer is done or should be done.

There is just no way in hell you can build that site for $150 and do a good job at it. I am a developer by trade so I'm not in the clouds about this stuff.

The issue of the Travis is that he needs to push them, hey thats part of business. Thanks for the review but it does not help the user when you say his investment is worth nothing.


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

Gioclone said:


> Heck no!
> 
> Please dont give miss information. How would you do all that work with just $150?
> 
> I'll give you a template and you can build me a site like that for $150? PLLEEEE AAAA SSSSEEE!


Misinformation? I said you could buy a template for $150. The customizing you can do yourself, with a little "roll up your sleeves" effort. If you are that picky about how your site looks, you need to DIY. 

This guy's site doesn't even have a CART. It would take minimal effort to edit an existing template. Shoot, this actually looks like a WIX style site, although it's not flash. 

Why reinvent the wheel people? There are some excellent professional templates, try here for a start:

T-Shirts Store Ecommerce Website Templates


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## stuffnthingz (Oct 1, 2007)

If someone doesn't have the time or inclination to build a website, it is no different than not wanting to be their own mechanic. Web developers can charge whatever the going rate is, or based on their reputation, what folks are willing to pay. You could likely pay a talented hungry student $30 per hour, or even $30 per page perhaps and be completely satisfied. I know some folks charge per page. I charge for the initial design work and then per page. After the site is complete I then charge a maintenance fee for content edits. My clients know nothing about the web and do not want to maintain it themselves. Because I have many years of experience, I get to charge alot and have a waiting list since I pick and choose the web jobs that I do. That IS a $2500 sized site if it is done exactly as spec'ed by an experienced group and the owner is satisfied. Everyone's time is worth money. Keep careful tabs on how long it really takes to make a webpage and you will see it isn't quick.


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm really glad you guys are pointing out the faults with site, it's helping me make a list so I can tell these guys what NEEDS to be fixed. Thanks a lot!!!


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## spiros_saf (Aug 25, 2009)

Services, Home, FAQ, Portfolio. Consider removing the bold from the main text. It's very very tiring for the eye. Apart from that the Site is ok!


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

spiros_saf said:


> Services, Home, FAQ, Portfolio. Consider removing the bold from the main text. It's very very tiring for the eye. Apart from that the Site is ok!


Thanks, yeah they put the font that way. I would never put down a company unless I seriously believed they do bad business, but I can say for certain that Icon Website Design is, by far, the worst company I have ever worked with. Not only have they messed up my site and charged me way too much, but they also messed my my business cards too. I'll explain, as I was getting the site created in the early stages I also had them make 2500 business cards for me, that was through their other company, Preferred Print.com (Never Use That). 

First, I ordered the cards and they told me it would be 2 weeks for delivery. After not receiving the cards for 2 weeks I called them back and they said, "Our website must have had a glitch in it" because they saw that the order went through, they even charged me, they just never produced the cards. I then told them that I needed the cards 2 days ago for a screen printing show and asked if they could send them next day to me, they said "Sorry, but you'll have to pay for next day shipping. It took another week to get the cards.

Wait, there's more!! I opened up the box of cards and went through them. At least 2/3rds of them are cut in the wrong spot so you can't even see my phone number. I have called them 3 times and every time they give me the run around, "We'll get someone to call you back right away and get this taken care of" Yeah right. I've sent numerous emails, none of which have been answered. 

Lesson Learned: NEVER EVER USE ICON WEBSITE DESIGN or PREFERRED PRINT.COM FOR ANY SERVICES THAT THEY OFFER. YOU'LL BE SORRY YOU DID.


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## ladyumbrella (Aug 25, 2009)

Wow, that sounds like a real nightmare with the business cards...jesus, I know I would go absolutely mental if I was given the run around like that....I'd literally go down to the office and raise hell...


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## chobay (Aug 4, 2009)

ladyumbrella said:


> Wow, that sounds like a real nightmare with the business cards...jesus, I know I would go absolutely mental if I was given the run around like that....I'd literally go down to the office and raise hell...


I'm sorry you got ripped off. Next time get cards from a reputable source like vistaprint, or get a recommendation. 

I checked out their website. It kinda reminded me of yours, down to the same grayscale social networking badges..


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## iluvtees (Jun 5, 2009)

I feel very sorry for you that a web designer would charge such an expensive fee for a basic html and css website like that.By no means am I a professional web designer, but I am very familiar with html/css and can tell you now that a website like that I could have easily built in less than a week and no way would I charge anywhere near $2500.Furthermore for $2500 they could have done a better job with the coding and fixed minor coding errors on the site by checking it here.

The W3C Markup Validation Service

It would have been wise to have gotten the quote and opinion of other web designers before spending a dollar.Most web design firms are out there to make money out of your ignorance,if your website is not a complex one with shopping cart functionality or databases it is often better to just pay a college student with the knowledge or a freelancer a few hundred dollars to do the job.


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

iluvtees said:


> I feel very sorry for you that a web designer would charge such an expensive fee for a basic html and css website like that.By no means am I a professional web designer, but I am very familiar with html/css and can tell you now that a website like that I could have easily built in less than a week and no way would I charge anywhere near $2500.Furthermore for $2500 they could have done a better job with the coding and fixed minor coding errors on the site by checking it here.
> 
> The W3C Markup Validation Service
> 
> It would have been wise to have gotten the quote and opinion of other web designers before spending a dollar.Most web design firms are out there to make money out of your ignorance,if your website is not a complex one with shopping cart functionality or databases it is often better to just pay a college student with the knowledge or a freelancer a few hundred dollars to do the job.


Yeah, this was an expensive lesson. I actually have had sites that were made by freelancers that look better than this one does. Now I research the hell out of any service provider and get opinions. Hopefully no one will make the same mistake I did and stay away from these guys.


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## zymerguyer (Feb 15, 2007)

chobay said:


> I'm sorry you got ripped off. Next time get cards from a reputable source like vistaprint, or get a recommendation.
> 
> I checked out their website. It kinda reminded me of yours, down to the same grayscale social networking badges..


I just got some cards from vistaprint and they turned out great! At least now I know.


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## muneca (Sep 30, 2008)

..............;;


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

chobay said:


> This is really a poor job by a supposed professional web designer. To be honest, this could have been created using a template for about $150.


No way! Would you take $150 for that many hours worth of work??? If so I'd like to buy some t-shirts from you for $.10 a piece! 

Personally, I think it's a pretty good deal at $2500 for a custom site like this one that probably took many hours to put together. Yes it does has a few minor adjustments that need to be made, but nothing major that would take that much time. It's mostly CSS adjustments and maybe rethinking some placement of a couple things like the links in the footer, but all in all those changes should only take an hour or two at most.


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## maiasaura (Nov 11, 2009)

$2500 is the going rate for a simple no-frills web site from a retail template. That's sort of what you got--almost. It needs a lot of tweaking for sure. Hang on to the last part of the fee until you are comfortable with the layout. Keep the fee if they don't take it seriously. Give them a drop-dead date, too. Just be nice as you can be about it. Give them a punch list--maybe hire someone to spend an hour critiquing the layout to create one ($50 ought to do it). 

Also, who wrote the copy? It should be edited severely. It's way too dense to read.

Best wishes
Annie


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## tomagucci (Feb 24, 2009)

Hey, Just checking out this post. I have a really good suggestion for you, you can check out Guru.com ? Find Freelancers for Hire. Get Your Project Done., post your project and have tons of designers/freelancers put in a bid for your work. In your case, without a cart or anything complicated, you could get it done for less than 200 guaranteed. Just post up your info for the site and for the price range select 0-500$. Guaranteed you will get at least 10 or more bids, people are really hungry for work. Especially overseas and they also do a terrific job. I got a complete customized shopping cart with javascript buttons and tons of other bells and whistles for 600$. they even have an escrow service so your money is protected. you put the money in guru.com and it isnt released to the freelancer until you are satisfied. 
just my 2 cents because I had the exact same thing happen, lost 2k in a really crappy job, and completely different than the mock ups, then they wanted another 500 to fix everything. completely ridiculous.


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