# First timer with Speedball kit: result + questions



## plastic (May 5, 2008)

Hi all, I decided to try out screen printing couple of weeks ago, went out and got a "Speedball Fabric Screen Printing Tool Kit" from my local art store. From what I read, it's pretty much a beginner's beginner's kit, very bare bones. 
So I burn the screen with my design (My band logo) and it came out pretty clean. 










I taped some regular cardboard (around 1/8") on the back as spacers, and used the supplied "squeegee" (really just a hard piece of plastic) and used "Speedball Fabric Screen Printing Ink" (water based ink, didn't add any water or thinner)
Here are the results:
On paper:










It showed up fairly good, except the tip of the plug (left most part of logo). I could actually see the dots of ink.(I can see the texture of the mesh as oppose to a smooth,even line)
Now I print on a T-shirt:











It generally came out ok, except the lines at the tip of the plug didn't really come out:










To my very limited understanding, could it be that the mesh is too fine? Even though it allows JUST enough ink to go through for paper, its too little to deposit on the fabric?

Now my questions:
Given that this kit is called "Speedball *Fabric* Screen Printing Tool Kit" key word being *fabric*, how can the mesh be too fine for printing on t-shirts? For those that have experience, what is the mesh count in this kit? 

Could it be that my spacer (around 1/8") is too high?

Am I completely off-base and it's something else all together? 

And more importantly if I get another frame (say, this time I get 110 mesh count) will the detail show up?

Just for reference, here is the area in question with a penny for scale:










Hope the info I supplied was specific enough.

Thanks in advance for the help...


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I think you probably have a 110 mesh screen in that kit. If you use that screen you might increase the line size on the plug. You might want to move to a higher mesh count as well. Those screens also dont keep tension very well. I have two of them and after a couple prints they are kinda worthless. You can purchase a quality screen with good mesh for $20 or less and is probably cheaper than ordering another speedball screen.

How did you expose the screen?


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## plastic (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for the reply motoskin. I am alittle confused though, I thought the problem is that I am not putting down enough ink through the mesh? Wouldn't a finer mesh allow even less ink through? Or is this a resolution problem? 

My exposure setup was rediculously ghetto hehehe... 
Got a 250 watt bulb from my local Wolf Camera, got some 8.5" diameter pie tin from supermarket. Put said bulb and tin onto my desk lamp set it 12" away from my frame. I use 2 layers of the same transparency tapped together, weighted it down with a 3/8" plexiglass on top. Put the whole thing on top of a black t-shirt covered folding chair in my closet. Exposed it for exactly 10 min per instructions. Like I said... Not too professional hehehe...


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I think the line is to thin. I may be wrong as I am new to this as well but I think finer detail the screen mesh goes up and larger detail is ok with a larger mesh. I know a bit of it has to do with the density of inks. The white ink especially. For a jimmy rig exposure I am impressed how fine a line you actually burned. I dont have an exposure set up yet and am using the Ulano films cut on my plotter.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

For your sample paper print to have the lines and your shirt didn't, it means you did not have enough pressure or ink through the entire stroke.

Off contact allows you to lay down multiple strokes if your first stroke was not heavy enough. And you can tell by looking at your design in the screen after the first stroke (don't move the screen). If you don't see any ink in the screen, then it all went on the shirt. But if you don't apply even pressure or ink supply, you might see some of the ink still in the screen after your stroke. you would then lay down another stroke.

The higher the mesh count, the less ink that gets through the screen. So if 110 wasn't laying down enough ink, you would go down to say an 86.

Nice job, btw.


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## SHELLY53 (Mar 12, 2008)

I Think You Did Pretty Good For The First Try. Keep Working At It I Can See You Perfecting Screenprinting.


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

splathead said:


> you can tell by looking at your design in the screen after the first stroke (don't move the screen). If you don't see any ink in the screen, then it all went on the shirt. But if you don't apply even pressure or ink supply, you might see some of the ink still in the screen after your stroke. you would then lay down another stroke.


agree with joe. 

the speedball squeegee if i remember is rounded, and won't easily allow the "cutting" of the ink from the mesh. a sharper squeegee would probably help, but a dry stroke after the flood stroke should clear the excess from the screen.


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## plastic (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for all the encouragement and tips. 

When I exposed the frame, i kind of treated it as a dark room project, I did the exposure in a dark closet and taped the door all the way around to prevent any light leaks that might distort or haze up the print, probably no different than what most beginners do i'm sure... chalk it up for beginners' luck i guess hehe 

I am going to try it again tonight with thinner off-contact / no off-contact (is that even done?) and see how it looks, as I will be eliminating another factor that might contribute to the issue before I get another frame of a different mesh count...

For the t-shirt, I did 2 pulls: flood, pull/print one direction, tilt screen, flood, pull/print the other direction. Did a shirt with just a single pull, the ink was def. a little thin in general and the plug detail was completely missing. When I redid the shirt with 2 pulls, it helped alittle bit, but as you can see from the pictures,some details were still missing.

For the paper, I just did a flood, pull/print.

I'll post my results for lower off-contact / no off-contact tonight.

Thanks all for the help!


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Fortunately, you aren't developing kodak film. a little sliver of light here and there won't have any effect. 

Your 1/8 inch off-contact should be fine. I would not suggest no off-contact entirely. It might work fine with one shirt, but if you are doing more than one its going to mess them up. Plus, you will not be able to see if your stroke cleared all the ink through the mesh. You want the screen to pop back into position as the squeegee passes. 1/8 inch is what most of us use on our presses.

If you are laying your screen directly on the shirt to screen (with or without off-contact), I also would not recommend you tilting the screen to flood. No matter how careful you think you might be, i guarantee you that screen is not going back down on the shirt in the exact position that it was. Even a hairline shift will cause your print to look muddy. Flood the screen while it's still laying flat on the shirt (with off-contact). I don't suggest trying to flood the screen without off-contact for the same reason as below.

And my last 2 cents of advice; pull your ink in only one direction. Pull, flood, then pull again in the same direction as the first pull. You'll find your prints will be more crisp.


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## plastic (May 5, 2008)

Heheh thats good to know, I was paranoid as hell about leaking light and what not...

You are absolutely right on about the tilt flood Joe, I had a hell of a time getting it to line up, good to know that I can actually flood it while the screen is on the shirt (with contacts)

I think if the speedball screen is indeed a 110, and the plug detail is just too thin, I now actually know the resolving limit of the 110 mesh... I have a couple of of designs that might need some adjusting...

Instead of doing the "no off-contact" test, I'll probably try and add a couple of drops of water to the ink and see how that turns out.

Thanks for the great tips!


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## plastic (May 5, 2008)

Just a quick update.
I added alittle water in the ink to thin it out a bit and printed on paper again. The line that's giving me problems actually shows up better, but just. So my conclusion is that the line is simply too thin for the mesh count. 
I'm off to get some more screens and burn more designs. I'll check back again with new results. Thanks everyone for their help, hope this thread helped others out as well.


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## God Father (Feb 27, 2008)

If that line is too thin using a low mess count like 110 isn't the best solution...its like trying to catch marbles with a soccer net. If you went to like 180ish mesh that line would probably come out much better.

Also as mentioned do not use "no offcontact" as that isn't going to work and you'll end up with ink everywhere and a wrecked t-shirt.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Auditor Clothing said:


> If that line is too thin using a low mess count like 110 isn't the best solution...its like trying to catch marbles with a soccer net. If you went to like 180ish mesh that line would probably come out much better.


The line would come our sharper, but if it's not getting through at all at 110, its not going to get through at 180. It could be you just need to thicken up that line in your artwork.


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## God Father (Feb 27, 2008)

True..... just thicken up the line and be done with it! haaaha


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

plastic said:


> Just a quick update.
> I added alittle water in the ink to thin it out a bit and printed on paper again. The line that's giving me problems actually shows up better, but just.


you know... it may be that you aren't using adhesive to tack the shirt to the printing surface. the ink may be pulling the shirt a little- especially at the end of the graphic there- which doesn't allow for the ink to snap out of the mesh.

i know my first speedball kit didn't come with pallet tack.

you could buy a can of pallet adhesive spray from many screen supply places online... or you might be able to get away with watering down some elmers to tack that tee down. (just wash it before you wear it...)


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## God Father (Feb 27, 2008)

darwinchristian said:


> you know... it may be that you aren't using adhesive to tack the shirt to the printing surface. the ink may be pulling the shirt a little- especially at the end of the graphic there- which doesn't allow for the ink to snap out of the mesh.
> 
> i know my first speedball kit didn't come with pallet tack.
> 
> you could buy a can of pallet adhesive spray from many screen supply places online... or you might be able to get away with watering down some elmers to tack that tee down. (just wash it before you wear it...)


I also thought about this cause its a pretty crucial part in making clean prints. I would def give it a try.


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## plastic (May 5, 2008)

Thats actually something I had no idea about...I'll add that to my shopping list. BTW, for the shirts, I pull from the plug towards the letters, if that adds any information

Thanks again.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

plastic said:


> Thats actually something I had no idea about...I'll add that to my shopping list.


Pallet spray is not going to help you unless you are actually using a pallet, or something serving as a pallet, to lay your shirt on. With a pallet, just the print side of the shirt is lying on the pallet, the back or non print side is hanging below the pallet. This allows you to get just the print side of the shirt to stick to the pallet.

If you are laying the entire shirt on a table, then placing your screen on the shirt, the pallet spray will not help.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Here is a pic of my first try with speedball water based white on a blk tee. I think my screen mesh is a bit high for this design. I am using a 22x24 alum. frame with 230 mesh. Really the only pro-frame I have. I also think my design was a bit large for the actual screen. My first pull would lay nice down the center of the image but the edges would feather away. I have no squeegie tech. at all as I am just figuring this all out.

This screen was made with the Ulano film cut on the pltter, weeded and applied to the screen.

The actual print is solid whate compared to the pic. It is way solid kinda like a cold peel opaque plastisol transfer. It actually compares to vinyl applications and isnt the feel I am after. 

Any advice or tips post them please.


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## God Father (Feb 27, 2008)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Here is a pic of my first try with speedball water based white on a blk tee. I think my screen mesh is a bit high for this design. I am using a 22x24 alum. frame with 230 mesh. Really the only pro-frame I have. I also think my design was a bit large for the actual screen. My first pull would lay nice down the center of the image but the edges would feather away. I have no squeegie tech. at all as I am just figuring this all out.
> 
> This screen was made with the Ulano film cut on the pltter, weeded and applied to the screen.
> 
> ...


Either your image is too big or you don't have a big enough squeegee. Either way first stroke you want to flood second stroke you want to clear. 


That is a pretty cool design and if that's your first print ever (white being the hardest for beginners) you'll have no problem.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Here is a pic of the screen and squeegie. I know the sqeegie is a bit short for the screen (14").


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Man that's a lot of weeding!

The image doesn't look too big for the frame. You do have an inch or two on each side so that should be fine. Your Squeegee is the key. Because you have to do multiple pulls to cover the whole area, you will get inconsistencies with your ink cover.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

The tension on the edges doesnt allow as much flex as the center of the screen. I have plenty of off contact and maybe too much. I used paint stir sticks on the corners. I think about half of that would have been cleaner. Is my mesh wrong for white water based junk ink?

The weed was about half an hour and this film is so cool. I keep pushing it for detail with the distress. I could push it a bit farther but still learning whats possible.

I need to order more screens so if anyone has a suggestion of 4 mesh counts I should have in hand please post up.

I am using water based ink and have no exposure unit or flash.


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

This is great. I have the speedball kit but haven't had time to use it yet. After getting a simple one-color job and having to send away for custom transfers I decided to look into one-color screen printing. I'll have to get a big bulb and give it a try this weekend. Then I will see if I want to spend $500 to $600 on a better one-color press and exposure unit.


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## God Father (Feb 27, 2008)

gmille39 said:


> This is great. I have the speedball kit but haven't had time to use it yet. After getting a simple one-color job and having to send away for custom transfers I decided to look into one-color screen printing. I'll have to get a big bulb and give it a try this weekend. Then I will see if I want to spend $500 to $600 on a better one-color press and exposure unit.



If you're going to drop the money, save up and get a multicolor press. The single color gets old VERY quickly.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Auditor Clothing said:


> If you're going to drop the money, save up and get a multicolor press. The single color gets old VERY quickly.


I think the opposite. If you can't afford a multicolor one now but can afford a single, don't wait, go ahead and buy the single. That's what I did. Now I have both and the single gets used as much as the multi. It's amazing how many jobs out there that only require 1 color.


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

splathead said:


> I think the opposite. If you can't afford a multicolor one now but can afford a single, don't wait, go ahead and buy the single. That's what I did. Now I have both and the single gets used as much as the multi. It's amazing how many jobs out there that only require 1 color.


I agree. With personal money, I could afford a good 4-color or more kit with upgrades on the exposure unit and flash dryer. With the money in my business account, I can pretty much afford a 1-color with upgrades on the exposure unitl and flash dryer. With the profits from doing one color business, I could save up for a four color press only, since I would already have the other items. I just don't see myself trying my hand multi color printing just yet.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I have been doing heatpress vinyl and plastisol transfers for quite a while now. Screen printing is just a natural progression for me and something I want to learn. I did it at the university in print making class and it was basically old school.

I purchased a used 4 color one station expandable to two Harco press with side clamps, two alumin. screens, emulsion coater, squeegie, emulsion and inks for $200 bucks. It doesnt have all the bells and whistles but I am going to learn on it and have it paid for at my next event. Just like every gadget I've ever wanted or thought I needed...everything runs between $300-$500 bucks. I like the best but I will take value as a learning tool now.

I made my own oversized platens and plan on making an exposure unit.

I have a lot to learn so I jumped into the white ink on black with what I have. I do think I can get this down as most of my problems were obvious to me.

Keep posting with info cause I am a sponge wanting to soak it all in.

Sorry about all the I's in the post.


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

I also did some screen printing in college but that was back in the 80's and I also worked at a screen printer during the summers. We made the cool mirrors with Led Zepplin, Grateful Dead, and so on that you saw at the local carnivals. I'm also getting a cutter in about a month but want to be able to whip out some simple one and two color shirts at a moments notice. I see all these web sites for companies selling one color shirts for schools and cheer programs being done in one day for $5-$6.00. 

Is the time savings gained by buying precoated screens worth the $10 adder? I read where it could take up to four hours for a screen to dry once coated. Sounds like a hassle and $10 might be worth it.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

gmille39 said:


> Is the time savings gained by buying precoated screens worth the $10 adder? I read where it could take up to four hours for a screen to dry once coated. Sounds like a hassle and $10 might be worth it.


What do you do when you are done with the printing and you have a $20 screen you bought that you don't know how to recoat?

There is no substitute for being able to coat your own screens. With a fan, the process only takes about 2 hours. A 2 hour wait is better than the 3 day wait before ups drops it off at your door. For the cost of 3 upcharges for coated screens you could buy emulsion that will coat 20. 

Your customer will probably wait 2 hours for you to prepare a screen, will they wait 3 days for you go get it shipped to you?


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## Muffintop (May 11, 2008)

That's really smart, I think I'm going to try that. 

The transparency you made, did you just use a standard injket printer?

The bulb you used can I just get that anywhere?

And what did you use to cure the ink after you got it on the shirt?


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## gmille39 (Oct 18, 2006)

splathead said:


> What do you do when you are done with the printing and you have a $20 screen you bought that you don't know how to recoat?
> 
> There is no substitute for being able to coat your own screens. With a fan, the process only takes about 2 hours. A 2 hour wait is better than the 3 day wait before ups drops it off at your door. For the cost of 3 upcharges for coated screens you could buy emulsion that will coat 20.
> 
> Your customer will probably wait 2 hours for you to prepare a screen, will they wait 3 days for you go get it shipped to you?


Not that I've even decided to attempt screen printing at this time, but don't some people have screens coated, just sitting there waiting to be used. I typically wouldn't wait to get an order and then order screens. I would just go ahead and order transfers.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

gmille39 said:


> Not that I've even decided to attempt screen printing at this time, but don't some people have screens coated, just sitting there waiting to be used. I typically wouldn't wait to get an order and then order screens. I would just go ahead and order transfers.


Yes you could do that, just keep in mind coated screens have a shelf life.


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