# help seperating



## rocha wear (Aug 27, 2013)

I am fairly new to screen printing, about 1 year. I am self taught threw videos and forums like this. I do a lot of simple prints, and up to 6 color, but there all fairly easy. I customer asked if I can do this for them, and I normally turn it down cause I don't know how to do halftones, or process. But need to stop ducking and finally learn. So im searching for help, I have corel draw X6, SC5, and PS5. I'm sure this is kids play for most of you. Open to any suggestions. thank you in ahead.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Different: T-Shirt Color Separation Guide

That's kind of an adult portion, and by that I mean not everyone who wants to be good at it has the ability or the work ethic.

I don't work for or get paid by this guy, but I plug him and his book here every time someone wants to know the finer points of high end T shirt art (as I asked one time and was pointed to the book I've mentioned by a senior member). I think if you take a look around his site you'll see what I mean.


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## Different (Feb 17, 2011)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Different: T-Shirt Color Separation Guide
> 
> That's kind of an adult portion, and by that I mean not everyone who wants to be good at it has the ability or the work ethic.
> 
> I don't work for or get paid by this guy, but I plug him and his book here every time someone wants to know the finer points of high end T shirt art (as I asked one time and was pointed to the book I've mentioned by a senior member). I think if you take a look around his site you'll see what I mean.


John, Thanks for the kind words and for the referral. That really did brighten my day!

Different


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Dude, you rock

One of the great things you get in college is a pretty good feel for solid, knowledge based instructional writing (text books vs. a lot of what you find in blogs). It seems very obvious to me that you have a great deal of practical, experience driven knowledge and are literate enough and logical enough to present it in a user friendly way. Best $35 dollars I've spent in screen print. A big thank you for sharing, and also to sben763 for pointing me your way.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Different: T-Shirt Color Separation Guide
> 
> That's kind of an adult portion, and by that I mean not everyone who wants to be good at it has the ability or the work ethic.
> 
> I don't work for or get paid by this guy, but I plug him and his book here every time someone wants to know the finer points of high end T shirt art (as I asked one time and was pointed to the book I've mentioned by a senior member). I think if you take a look around his site you'll see what I mean.


is that a poke at me age LOL Mitch's book has taught me a lot about manual separation and even though I don't use the methods as much I still use some of the techniques on the current methods I am using. IMO if your using a separation program, or manually separating you can benefit from the info in the book. Now if I could just learn to do artwork like Mitch!!!!!


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

lol, I was referring to your having been on the forum long enough to post 6,413 times, definitely bestows "elder of the tribe" status.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Here is a reprint I did using some techniques learned in Mitch's book while using the HSB method. Every single person that sees both picks the reprint as their favorite. Oh and only 4 color vs 5 (6)but if you remember right I elminated a screen do to the print becoming muddy.

I think we all could use the info out there to our advantage and not just 1 persons techniques or opinions.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> Rodney King "can't we all just get along"


 



> He has no clue about what the real professional scientific level of color separation for screenprinting actually is or can even come close to it.


He is quite obviously a professional, and also quite obviously an accomplished screen print artist. You might be a t shirt scientist, i don't know, but all a person has to do is look at his work and that is reason enough to try and learn how he did it.



> Now if I could just learn to do artwork like Mitch!!!!!


  amen

Art is something I've spent a little time studying, if you think his work is lacking, show us how it's done. I've stated before, I try and work with ideas and thoughts as opposed to beliefs, and so appreciate being shown the error in my thinking, that's how people improve.

I'm all ears.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> even though your methods maybe what you consider more accurate there are guys who can manipulate the file so that it exceeds the original


And the guy in question educates us as to how he did it. Most of us come here to learn what we can and share what we know. The sharing part is really a pretty amazing thing, and amazing being actually amazing and not just a figure of speech. 

Some people come here and try to sell, I get that this is how you put food on the table, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

Mitch makes his way in the world selling also, but I have to say, it doesn't seem to have made him bitter, combative, or any less generous, and your kind of coming off that way. 

By the way do you share your techniques? I'm going to feel kind of silly if they are already posted ,lol.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> John you will have to feel silly.


Hey, silly is where I live.  lol And everyone has a bad day (I've been barky and short more often than I'd like to admit). 

So, sorry Jeff, I look forward eagerly to reading your processes. 

If you have an objective means to evaluate the process of reproducing a subjective goal, your worthy of "Big Dog" or "Elder of the Tribe" status for logical thinking alone. I'm more than sure you're a serious pro.

Bit of advice though, *Be Nice.*


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I self moderated, I will give a apology to all those who had to read this crap. I let someone get the better of me and acted upon so. These types of exchanges do nothing for the forum or help anyone.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

When your wrong your wrong, and when your right your right. Sean you couldn't have been more right (about feeling a bit silly), and I..... well I could have been more wrong but would have had to work at it. My bad. So I went to the oldest posts of Jeff's I could find and all I can say is wow. I forget sometimes that this is a conversation that can go back years. 

I guess I'm enough of an old dog to live in the moment, sometimes publicly. 

Jeff, you've spent a lot of time and effort explaining yourself to folks you say you have no regard for at all. I'm having a hard time understanding how you go from the poster you were in 2012 to the guy I've been reading in this thread. Sorry for your loss, everyone has a bad day. 

I bet the OP's wondering how such a fundamental question led to all of this, I know I am. 

My New Years resolution for 2015 is more listening, less talking.....hey this isn't the first time I've resolved to do this.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

To at least get somewhat back on track. here are the 2 images again. I labeled them. First I want to say this is for learning. the next quote is from a email from Jeff on Nov 9 2013 " the perfect math seps and the natural dot-gain print control always works best in my opinion than any over-compensated attempts to perfect what are essentially lots of analog variables."

This is after me emailing and a phone conversation with me being concerned about the dot gain and the fact I was using a point light source exposure unit that was getting near zero undercutting. If anyone wants the entire email just PM me with your email address as long as my account is still active and I will gladly share the entire email.


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## OSSKOBRET (Sep 17, 2011)

rocha wear said:


> I am fairly new to screen printing, about 1 year. I am self taught threw videos and forums like this. I do a lot of simple prints, and up to 6 color, but there all fairly easy. I customer asked if I can do this for them, and I normally turn it down cause I don't know how to do halftones, or process. But need to stop ducking and finally learn. So im searching for help, I have corel draw X6, SC5, and PS5. I'm sure this is kids play for most of you. Open to any suggestions. thank you in ahead.


Maybe at some point the op can get some help with his issue
just my two cents


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> Maybe at some point the op can get some help with his issue
> just my two cents



Different: T-Shirt Color Separation Guide

That's kind of an adult portion, and by that I mean not everyone who wants to be good at it has the ability or the work ethic.

I don't work for or get paid by this guy, but I plug him and his book here every time someone wants to know the finer points of high end T shirt art (as I asked one time and was pointed to the book I've mentioned by a senior member). I think if you take a look around his site you'll see what I mean.

Also run a Search on this forum, a lot of good information has already been posted on this subject by some pretty knowledgeable folks some of whom use other methods.


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## Miller Brothers (Feb 28, 2009)

for something like that, I use artworksource.com and ask them for seps with halftones. I then go back out in my shop and make money doing what I do best (printing tees) and let them fiddle with it. It is usually a 24 hour turn on their end and the art is usually just fine.

sorry this post got hijacked by a pissing match.


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## rocha wear (Aug 27, 2013)

I still need help if anyone can. 

[email protected]


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

rocha wear said:


> I still need help if anyone can.
> 
> [email protected]


hahahaahahaaaaa......


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Ok so I've done a few index seps and feel I understand how they work. I've dabbled with channel separations and get the principle, but have little practical experience.

Along comes a couple hundred piece order for a car show and we point the buyers to a clipsite with muscle car vectors. 

They pic a photograph.

I embrace this as a teachable moment and look a little harder into simulated process. I get the theory more or less, select color range in Photoshop, produce grey scale plate and halftone. Wasn't getting what I had hoped for on the shirt. Mean while the boss is up my a$$ for spending so much time without billable results.

So I buy Mitch's book (mentioned earlier in the post) hoping for enough pointers to limp through the project with acceptable results. 

Come to find out it's not at all like a cake recipe, something simple like getting a good dot gain adjusted halftone out of Photoshop without a RIP, but something that requires experience and a feel for it to do well.

Ok, bigger fish than I thought at first. 

Mitch has written down a great deal of information on the subject for a fairly affordable price. 

Here's an admission of guilt (another admission), I've never seen Mitch's work in person. But I have seen his artwork, and it is simply incredible. I have spent enough time studying with MFA accredited painters (that's an 8 year degree) to know he is just simply masterful at light and color composition. I have also studied his pre press techniques and it is pretty obvious that he has spent years perusing methods to take this work and reproduce it in screen printing.

My "assumption" is that anyone that talented as an artist couldn't live with a muddy print. It would be antithetical to their core being.

So, for what it's worth, buy the book, try and apply it. If anyone tells you they know better, ask them to write it all down, put it up for sale, and I'll buy it too.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Come to find out it's not at all like a cake recipe, something simple like getting a good dot gain adjusted halftone out of Photoshop without a RIP, but something that requires experience and a feel for it to do well.


 You're making separating sound like an...a*t form. 

(Self-censored to avoid controversy)


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

I would definitely say theres an art to it. ​


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

rocha wear said:


> I am fairly new to screen printing, about 1 year. I am self taught threw videos and forums like this. I do a lot of simple prints, and up to 6 color, but there all fairly easy. I customer asked if I can do this for them, and I normally turn it down cause I don't know how to do halftones, or process. But need to stop ducking and finally learn. So im searching for help, I have corel draw X6, SC5, and PS5. I'm sure this is kids play for most of you. Open to any suggestions. thank you in ahead.



I personally say if you wanna finally learn, it's best not to do it with a potential liability, unless you really love learning the hard way, or you are an employee of someone else...

However, if you've been watching video's etc. then you must get the gist, maybe you just need the confidence. 

If you think you can pull off the burning and printing, then totally go with Nick.



Miller Brothers said:


> for something like that, I use artworksource.com and ask them for seps with halftones. I then go back out in my shop and make money doing what I do best (printing tees) and let them fiddle with it. It is usually a 24 hour turn on their end and the art is usually just fine.
> 
> Do your seps, compare, and go from there...
> 
> ...


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## Different (Feb 17, 2011)

ShirlandDesign said:


> Come to find out it's not at all like a cake recipe, something simple like getting a good dot gain adjusted halftone out of Photoshop without a RIP, but something that requires experience and a feel for it to do well.
> .


John, You hit the nail on the head! There is no recipe. After all my years of doing this for a living, I will still get a piece of art from a client that does not fit the mold of normalcy and it will kick my butt.

Thanks for referring me and the nice words you've said on my work. I would like to mention that I do have an advantage over most new artists in this industry. I started T-shirt printing because of art, and I began at the very bottom reclaiming screens. Worked my way up printing and learned everything that goes into it. Finding the difference between bad separations and good ones. Finally, moving into the end of design and producing the separations with the knowledge of how and what I am doing in art is going to be affected while printing on the press. I wish all of the artists that work with me would spend a month as a screen jockey, so they could get at least a "feel for it" as you mentioned, John!

Best Regards,
Different


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

phatdaddy said:


> I opened the file up in photoshop and it looks pretty good, although I think it's god awful, I hate when people throw this flare type stuff around... "uh, we need more uh... **** goin' on".


 FINALLY!!!

I didn't want to be the one to say "the king has no clothes". 

Didn't think it was pertinent. Well, actually I was waiting for someone to use as a shield in case of flying shrapnel.

This could be a LOT more effective graphic as well as a lot less involved separating and printing. Many times effects and other extraneous elements are substitutes for good solid "design" quality. Yes it's very subjective and there's a balance between giving the client what they want and what might be "better" for them.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

TYGERON said:


> This could be a LOT more effective graphic as well as a lot less involved separating and printing. Many times effects and other extraneous elements are substitutes for good solid "design" quality. Yes it's very subjective and there's a balance between giving the client what they want and what might be "better" for them.


True that! I see this kind of stuff all the time and it drives me crazy...

I have absolutely no reservation telling the clients, "It's amateur, hope you didn't pay much for it..." Of course I do it in the most gentle of tones, sorta like awe, you got suckered by a somebody handy on a computer who likes to call themselves a "graphic artist." 

It may sound arrogant, but my clients typically know my background. Unfortunately 90% of the time they want to keep the garbage that cost them 500 dollars rather than mess around... 

And I need to clear something up;



ShirlandDesign said:


> I have spent enough time studying with MFA accredited painters (that's an 8 year degree)


A MFA is not an eight year degree unless you spend four years in community college first... An MFA is a 6 year degree. Four years undergrad and two post, although most universities will allow you to take up to 3 years to complete your MFA. It is also not necessary for students in an MFA program to hold a undergraduate degree in Fine Art, I've seen people with English Degrees graduate with MFA's.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

In the time I spent in community college it was explained to me that an MFA was a terminal degree, 8 years, and a BFA was a six year degree, but that was a long time ago, and it either could have changed or I've remembered incorrectly. I'll take your word for it, maybe I should have said "really, really good educated painters"


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

The thing here is it is irrelevant whether me or you likes the design, the owner of it evidently does. As a printer I print stuff all the time I would have done differently. I have in the past before printing made changes and sent to the client as a idea. A few times that didn't go over very well. I decided that I would just do what the customer wants. If I am doing the design I take as much input from the customer and then do my best to design something that the customer wants while making it easy on me. 

I have a freelance designer that all the time I send over requirements for a job and then they are not meet. so I will do my own design and submit both to the client. On several occasions the client chooses mine . The freelance guy gets so pissed cause he has a degree and graduated #1 of his class, won all kinds of awards and scholarships. I went to the school of hard knocks. He complains how this and that goes against the rules of design, blahh blah, I told him non of that matters if you cant at least fulfill the clients wishes. If your going to change the design from what the client wants I will submit 2-3 designs so at lest the client knows I am listening.

I have sepped the design but need to make a few changes. To the Op I will send over with at least a private link to the video of the sep.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

ShirlandDesign said:


> In the time I spent in community college it was explained to me that an MFA was a terminal degree, 8 years, and a BFA was a six year degree, but that was a long time ago, and it either could have changed or I've remembered incorrectly. I'll take your word for it, maybe I should have said "really, really good educated painters"


College/University is a business selling a product. Community college wants you to spend four years there, they promise you can transfer into third year at University, ie. have a degree by year 6. 

It is generally frowned upon to take three years to complete an MFA but often accepted. 

An MFA is considered a terminus degree and loan forgiveness is available, however the last I checked PHD's are actually attainable in a couple of places in the world.

Of course personal circumstances will always come into play and it may take 20 years for someone to reach the end of the production line and some may never get there at all...

I also think it unwise to use education level as an indicator of the quality of peoples artwork. I think this is likely just a matter of semantics and what you meant was "really, really good, well-educated painters." As you know, Fine Art is very, very subjective.

University sells validation in a defined field of study. Most people generally feel the need to be considered valid. Now I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but just because someone has bought their validation from a school does not make them valid... Each University validates hundreds of people a year.

When I hear that someone wants to go to college or university I try very hard to drill all of this into them. 

College is a business and should be treated as such. Buy what you want to buy, don't buy what you don't want to buy, stay away from the charlatans and make sure you get the best bang for your buck. 

If they say they want to go to art-school I phone their parents...
hahahaahaaa...

All that said, I can say with confidence that colour separation is not an art form. It is more like a science, a subcategory of colour theory. If you don't believe me, takes some positives, throw a 300 dollar frame on them and take them down to a gallery...

Colour separation often relies upon at least a basic understanding of colour theory but it is still only a tool used in printmaking. And many people don't even consider printmaking an art form...


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

sben763 said:


> The thing here is it is irrelevant whether me or you likes the design, the owner of it evidently does. As a printer...do what the customer wants.


100% correct and I do believe Jeff said that exact thing...



sben763 said:


> I have sepped the design but need to make a few changes. To the Op I will send over with at least a private link to the video of the sep.


As much as it pisses me off to see someone answer the OP by pimping someone else's product, it's even more bothersome to see him receive a handout because of all of this... You know, the "teach a man to fish..." thing.

Sean, I think your time would be better spent dealing with Jeff. Although he came off as extremely combative and arrogant he had valid points and was clearly under some emotional distress. I am saddened that all this led to him leaving the forum, I only hope he is doing well.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

phatdaddy said:


> 100% correct and I do believe Jeff said that exact thing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My comment was more about the other comments about the design flaws with the file. Jeff's comments were about not changing and accurate reproduction. 

The op isn't getting a handout. Yes I sepped it. Many shops including some very large shops get all their artwork sepped by third party freelance. What he is getting is a video how I sepped it and that way at least can get a start. I actually do seps for other shops but that isn't my intension here and I didn't charge for this and am not trying to promote or find new clients. I'd rather be printing. 

Not sure what you mean dealing with Jeff. He hasn't left the forum. His post were either requested to be removed or moderated. Only him and Rodney would know which. If you choose to leave your post stay and there will be a comment something to the fact unregistered or former member. There are plenty of old post that contain that. Jeff was on the forum 21hrs ago. He has had many,many moderated post. This is the first time he attacked me and in other threads he would say stuff like the entire industry is doing it wrong and don't know what their doing. The HSB method is absolutely great, perfect not quite, it lacks gray pulls and depends on white black mix to make those colors. Their are some other things I know about it that it lacks but they are being worked on. If you look I have supported Jeff and even when we talked on the phone told him that telling people their wrong, that they don't know what they are doing and insulting them is noway to get people to listen to you. He post somewhere that he was told to be nice. Little does he realize when he post good info and not be arrogant more people listen. He could contribute a lot to the industry but if he keeps of the path he's going what ever he develops or sells he will likely fail doing it the way he's going about. Even though after all the BS I hope he is well.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

sben763 said:


> Not sure what you mean dealing with Jeff. He hasn't left the forum.


Thanks. Good to hear, I was only singling you out because it seemed as though you had contact information for him and I was a little concerned...


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> As much as it pisses me off to see someone answer the OP by pimping someone else's product, it's even more bothersome to see him receive a handout because of all of this


It's purely a personal matter to you, and you alone that product, or service recommendations make you angry. I love them, come here specifically for them in part.



> I think your time would be better spent dealing with Jeff


Sean's a big boy, his time is his own. Jeff.... not so big a boy, and hard as hell to deal with, at least lately. And yeah, he should try to be nicer, wouldn't hurt you either.

I get that you guys are old "Family", but damn, you ought to be able to talk shop here without all the touchy feely menopausal housewife jacked up on Gevalia and Days of our lives horse$hit that passes for meaningful dialog lately.



> he had valid points


Great, let him put those points in form that's of some use.



> What he is getting is a video how I sepped it and that way at least can get a start.


That is generous, you're a good guy, doing a good thing, and paying it forward.



> If you look I have supported Jeff and even when we talked on the phone told him that telling people their wrong, that they don't know what they are doing and insulting them is noway to get people to listen to you


It's easy to see the guy is sharp as a whip. But without being able to present his ideas in a reasonable way it's all going down the drain. I've got a friend whose married and got three girls, bet he deals less with feelings than we've been doing in this thread.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> And many people don't even consider printmaking an art form...


I did a video shoot with a BBC art journalist who thought Escher wasn't a valid artist because of his popularity. It brings to mind a poster here who signed "just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it art". Well just because most people do get it doesn't mean it _isn't_ art. I love Escher. Also would you consider "homage to the square" art, or color theory?

One of the people in the text books I didn't get was Paul Jenkins, until I walked into a gallery in Santa Fe running an exhibition of his work.
I could only stay in the gallery for 30 minutes before I fled dizzy and sick. Pretty neat trick with nothing but color.

If Pottery can be elevated to an art form, why not color theory?


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

ShirlandDesign said:


> If Pottery can be elevated to an art form, why not color theory?


Pottery hasn't been elevated to Fine Art. It's Pottery, a craft.
Fine Art Sculpture that incorporates Ceramics is called Ceramic Sculpture.
Yes, welcome to the world of Fine Art... Printmaking is rarely even offered anymore.

Trust me I could have this dialog with you for days and days on end...

In my last year of University I was in the honours program, a masters preparatory program consisting of 12 of the top students. Bear in mind, I don't have a high school diploma... I signed up for the honours program because it's a self-guided schedule and I had a one year old in tow and I could.

In the honours program you choose three instructors from the faculty to be your advisors, one of whom to be your lead instructor. I was a bit of a golden boy among the sculpture students so I could easily have picked three instructors who loved my work and sailed through the last year, but I didn't. I picked the one prick I hated most...

You see, I came to University at 30 from a community college, intensive Fine Art Program. Seven classes, five days a week no summer off for 2 years. It was great, I was immersed in the visual arts in a practical hands on way and taught basics from the ground up. I excelled. I became friends with my instructors as peers. I often had beers with the Department Head(my Printmaking Instructor and Master Printmaker) and my Sculpture Instructor. 

We'd talk arts and crafts...

So I enter University to find that third year students know absolutely nothing about foundation. In anything. Needless to say I was a bit ruffled and found myself soon ruffling others... 

During a discussion I had once with my aforementioned prick instructor he told me, "Curtis, My Masters studio was an 8X10 room with a typewriter..." He was the Head Sculpture Instructor. He was the kind of Sculptor who comes up with an idea and lets the engineers figure it out and the construction crew build it... He also once said, "Curtis, we are the elite..." during a heated discussion about the elitism of Fine Art. 

That was one messed up year, but I did learn about allot of things, one of them being that the person that pisses you off the most often has the most to teach you. 

I still think he's a prick though.

Anyway...

Art and Craft... hmmm... Yup... 

What makes one of my 16 colour Serigraphs worth 500$ more than one of my t-shirts?

Hmmm I dunno, maybe they're both Merda d'artista, but only one is signed.

Oh, and Homage To The Square... well I have a friend who was all over that **** in college, and Donald Judd... He drove me nuts in classes because I didn't get it, but I do now.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

When I posted I was thinking Maria Martinez but these will do.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

As far as print making not being offered, has more to do with the current work ethic than art v craft.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

OK Phatdaddy, step one complete...now revolutionize the industry dammit...Oh, and make this separation stuff cheap and easy enough for us old hobby guys  

(Yes, I've been reading Tygeron's posts again)


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

cyclesurgeon said:


> OK Phatdaddy, step one complete...now revolutionize the industry dammit...Oh, and make this separation stuff cheap and easy enough for us old hobby guys
> 
> (Yes, I've been reading Tygeron's posts again)


Actually Jeff already did that and gave it away for free for those that were lucky enough to download before he had them removed. 

This was done based off of Jeff's separation method. http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t436794-5.html#post2474057. A lot of the prints work very well with this. The OP's posted file doesn't work as well due to the grays in it. I did 12 seps this week for other shops with the method. Just needs some tweaking.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

sben763 said:


> Actually Jeff already did that and gave it away for free for those that were lucky enough to download before he had them removed.
> 
> This was done based off of Jeff's separation method. http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t436794-5.html#post2474057. A lot of the prints work very well with this. The OP's posted file doesn't work as well due to the grays in it. I did 12 seps this week for other shops with the method. Just needs some tweaking.


Nice, thanks Sean.



cyclesurgeon said:


> OK Phatdaddy, step one complete...now revolutionize the industry dammit...Oh, and make this separation stuff cheap and easy enough for us old hobby guys
> 
> (Yes, I've been reading Tygeron's posts again)


Not me... 
Although I'm getting interested in some cross discipline methods... Like was just being educated on new heat press tech and thinking about trying it with discharge on darks... May be a registration nightmare. And then there's my plan to screen print pre-plotted stock to eliminate die cutting...(looking for ideas on what kind of decent outdated plotter to look for)

Colour separating can be a ***** for me because I come at it intuitively and more hap-hazardly than I think you should... Although I do have the colour theory pretty worked out, the rest of this mathematical crap is lost on me.. I kinda jump in and get dirty and fool around so it takes me a long time but I've got a good eye and I can get there in the end.

I've always worked in shops that had designers to do the seps and although I learned Photoshop before they started numbering it, I'm by no means proficient. Now, I'm not as old as some of you rusty old dogs, but old enough to have a roll of amberlith kicking around and remember making positives by soaking bond paper in varsol... 

I've just started learning illustrator in the last couple of years, but I worked in Pagemaker and QuarkExpress before so I can fumble my way through

In my Fine Art prints I use the computer to do about 4-5 base colours, then I use overlays and hand draw most of the others... I go back and forth and sometimes combine overlays, or scratch away at others. I use the screens like a paintbrush essentially and do the work on the overlays with a nib pen and brushes with india ink.

I factor in a high over-run because I mix the inks as I go to try to achieve the the colours I want and the mistakes are compounded with every colour. I usually expect 15-20% spoilage

It's a totally different process than printing logos on T-shirts, which is what pays the bills.(barely)lol


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

16 colour Oil and Vinyl on rag paper, roughly 10X12, limited edition of 25.


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

My biggest problem is being a bit colour blind. I get the solid base colors, but can't do shades. They tend to shift on me.


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## phatdaddy (Oct 25, 2012)

Value and Hue...

The best exercise I can suggest for understanding colour;

Go to an art supply store, not Michael$, and purchase a good quality colour wheel, some Gouache primary's and white, a pallet knife, some good quality rag paper(the cheap stuff is totally fine) and a good quality brush.

Gouache is a high-pigment designers paint. Trying to mix colours with low pigment carriers is like trying to mix colour in the dirt..

Take your nice new goodies home and sit down and DUPLICATE that colour wheel. Once you think you have finally finished, all your long hours have paid off and you've finally got that gawdamn thing DUPLICATED, go show a few people the two and ask them for their frank opinions on the differences...

Take notes and start again.

I will rarely ever(whatever medium) use black to create Hue.

A neat thing to do is take a white sheet of paper and place a red square(red vinyl works well) in the centre. Stare at the red for a minute and then take it away. 

You will see a green shadow of the square...


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## cyclesurgeon (Sep 10, 2010)

Ah, that's assuming that I can see all colours on the colour wheel. My problem stems from too many years of hitting my head against hard things (because it feels so good when you stop doing it). Whatever processes seeing the difference when two colors are sitting next to each other is a bit broken and sometimes the translation can be hilarious...especially since I make my living in electronics where many components are colour coded. I often have to ask the wife "am I wearing the gray or light blue shirt". Could be worse: I could be completely colour blind and end up wearing orange shoes, green pants, and a purple shirt...and yes, the wife can be that mean


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> I have in the past before printing made changes and sent to the client as a idea. A few times that didn't go over very well. I decided that I would just do what the customer wants.


Offering a client art advice after they have a design they like is like offering them a breath mint. They may really need one, but it's best to just hold your breath and take the check.


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