# Vinyl coming off after washer



## Chezzy

Hello everyone,

I'm working on starting my t-shirt business and for now I have been mostly doing a lot of testing.
I'm using CAD-CUT flex and it has been giving me headaches. I pre press my Fruit of the Loom t-shirts. Then put the design on and press it with either an iron (that I have at home) or a (relatively) cheap press at a local shop (they allow me to use theirs for free as I'm a good customer).
The shirts are great, until I put them in the washer. I wash them inside out at low temperature, but there's always loose bits. Especially the edges and thin lines (1/8") tend to come loose. The rest it usually very nicely attached. 

Now I'm trying to figure out what goes wrong:
*Vinyl material? I personally doubt it. CAD-OUT is usually considered to be pretty good.
*T-shirt? I use pre-shrunk fruit of the loom shirts.
*Heatpress? Obviously an iron isn't a good option, but since I get the same issues with a (cheap) heat press, it makes me doubt.

Any advice is appreciated! I don't want to shell out a lot of money on a new press, if that isn't the issue.


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## pxs93710

The only time I've had vinyl lift was when I didn't apply enough pressure. I've used Thermo Flex, USA Twill nd Siser. I like Siser the best, a soft hand.


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## BRC

The first thing I would check is to make sure you have enough pressure. Then after pressing and removing the transfer sheet I go back and repress the vinyl for about 10 seconds to make sure the edges are sealed good. The only time I have had issues with the vinyl coming loose is when using a very fine font or small pieces in the graphic. Then the problems are with the shirt and not the vinyl, there simply is not enough surface for the vinyl to hold to and the fibers simply let go. The fuzz you see in the lint filter of the dryer was once part of your clothes.


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## Chezzy

BRC said:


> The first thing I would check is to make sure you have enough pressure. Then after pressing and removing the transfer sheet I go back and repress the vinyl for about 10 seconds to make sure the edges are sealed good. The only time I have had issues with the vinyl coming loose is when using a very fine font or small pieces in the graphic. Then the problems are with the shirt and not the vinyl, there simply is not enough surface for the vinyl to hold to and the fibers simply let go. The fuzz you see in the lint filter of the dryer was once part of your clothes.


Thank you for your reply.

Currently I am not repressing, but I will give that a try!

Also, when it has been washed, can I still try to repress it, or will that ruin it?


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## gregblack

yes you can repress it, some vinyls require a sheet of silicon paper kitchen cooking papers normally fine or teflon sheet over the transfer to stop iy sticking to the press.
Greg


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## TrikerTrash

I may be wrong (and if I am forgive me) but when you wash a shirt for customers I thought that makes it a used shirt and not as nice as a new unwashed shirt, but if it is for your personal use then everything goes.


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## JWKLearning

I know that in order to get transfer vinyl film to stick correctly. you need the right mix of time, temperature and pressure. Unless you have some special lock down device for your home iron, I don't believe you can get the pressure needed for the vinyl to stick.

You say you are using CAD-CUT flex? What's the exact name and manufacturer of the material? Maybe i can find their recommended settings for application and then pass then on to you.


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## Chezzy

TrikerTrash said:


> I may be wrong (and if I am forgive me) but when you wash a shirt for customers I thought that makes it a used shirt and not as nice as a new unwashed shirt, but if it is for your personal use then everything goes.


I wouldn't sell anything less than perfect so for now I am just testing my plotter and making t-shirts for myself .
I figured I'd test the washing before I put anything up for sale. And... Very glad I did! 



JWKLearning said:


> I know that in order to get transfer vinyl film to stick correctly. you need the right mix of time, temperature and pressure. Unless you have some special lock down device for your home iron, I don't believe you can get the pressure needed for the vinyl to stick.
> 
> You say you are using CAD-CUT flex? What's the exact name and manufacturer of the material? Maybe i can find their recommended settings for application and then pass then on to you.


I figured the pressure might be the issue indeed...

The CAD-CUT is by Stahls. CAD-CUT® Direct Heat Transfer Material | Stahls' ID
I do wish to note I am in no way saying it's bad stuff, just that it's not working for me yet.

I am about to order a new heat press so I have one at my office, I hope that will give me some good results. Now to find a nice one that is actually for sale in my country!


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## wormil

It's very difficult to get consistent heat and pressure from an iron and cheap presses are notorious for having cold spots.


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## binki

you need pressure and correct heat for the stuff to stick. buy a name brand heat press like hotronix.


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## jean518

You had 2 strikes against you with using a home iron or cheap heat press. The temp may be off on the heat press. You definitely cannot get the needed heat or pressure setting with a home iron. Get a GOOD heat press. Your problems will probably go away. Hotronix gets my vote.


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## vadan

I do the same thing, press for 15 seconds at medium pressure and 5 seconds after peeling. I also use a thick textured rubber mat that I use as the cover on the 2d press, mainly in small graphics. It works a treat, you can see the garment texture coming through slightly which assures you the vinyl has bonded well. It's inexpensive get 1.


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## Chezzy

Thanks everyone for the great replies! Great forum with so much knowledge!

I already made a thread about a possible new press in the heat press equipment forum. Budget is of course a bit of an issue as the second hand market is next to nothing (small country) and importing is an issue with the electricity plugs. 

I'll update the thread should problems arise with the new press, but I doubt it.


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## freeblazer

I know this is probably not the case, but I'll mention it anyway.
Make sure if you are pressing unwashed shirts, fabric softener can sometimes give the shirt a teflon effect.
Things won't stick to it right. 

Most likely a heat/pressure issue though.


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## jasonsmith

freeblazer said:


> I know this is probably not the case, but I'll mention it anyway.
> Make sure if you are pressing unwashed shirts, fabric softener can sometimes give the shirt a teflon effect.
> Things won't stick to it right.
> 
> Most likely a heat/pressure issue though.


I like to wash my shirts first to get them to shrink. Is it best to wash them with no detergent? Or does it not matter?


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## gregblack

Most t shirts are all pre shrunk buy them example Gildan, Haynes, Friut as they do not require washiing, 

*Getting back to the thread*
Setting up a cheap heat press for good reults :-
close the press on a sheet of A4 paper and adjust the pressure till it is very difficult for the paper to be dragged out, somewher between just moveable and tearing, this gives you a good starting point for t-shirts, I usually have to apply slightly more pressure for the vinyls I use. 

Greg


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## jasonsmith

gregblack said:


> Most t shirts are all pre shrunk buy them example Gildan, Haynes, Friut as they do not require washiing,
> 
> *Getting back to the thread*
> Setting up a cheap heat press for good reults :-
> close the press on a sheet of A4 paper and adjust the pressure till it is very difficult for the paper to be dragged out, somewher between just moveable and tearing, this gives you a good starting point for t-shirts, I usually have to apply slightly more pressure for the vinyls I use.
> 
> Greg


Is that considered medium or heavy pressure?

Some of the vinyl I was looking at says to press it with medium pressure.

Do you think cheap posterboard from the big box store would be good for this test?


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## gregblack

Hi it is considered heavy pressure but it is only a starting point.
Greg
uk


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## Chezzy

gregblack said:


> Most t shirts are all pre shrunk buy them example Gildan, Haynes, Friut as they do not require washiing,
> 
> *Getting back to the thread*
> Setting up a cheap heat press for good reults :-
> close the press on a sheet of A4 paper and adjust the pressure till it is very difficult for the paper to be dragged out, somewher between just moveable and tearing, this gives you a good starting point for t-shirts, I usually have to apply slightly more pressure for the vinyls I use.
> 
> Greg


Thank you for the advice.

Just a question though, is there such a thing as using too much pressure? As my new press is on its way, I'd rather be sure.


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## gregblack

Yes you can use to much pressure though its a pretty wide range and it is better than to little, plus you will not be able to close the press. Depending in what you are printing on and the vinyl you are using but I like to see the weave just showing through. I give the shirt or garment a 10 second pre press, then the vinyl manufacturers press time and final press of 10 seconds using silicon paper over the transfer all at the recommended temperature.
Some vinyls behave differently to others and if you pull at the garment the transfer will crack (not very good your customer will not come back) Get some samples of vinyls and do some tests. There should be plenty of information about vinyls on the forum as the best to use, I am in the UK so my choices of vinyl would hardly apply to you.


Cheers Greg


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