# How can I tell if the plastisol transfer ink is cured after I've pressed the shirt?



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

How can I tell if a transfer is fully cured or not? I'm still experimenting with low temperature transfers and I'm trying to find the lowest temp possible.

I'm currently trying out a cold peel with adhesive that supposedly was cured either most or all the way. The adhesive sets at a lower temperature so it *should* work. Unfortunately, the ink is slightly tacky after I press so I suspect I was sent a normal cold peel transfer that's still uncooked. 

Wash test? How many washes? What temp?
Stretch test? How far? (They have a flex additive). 
Ideas?


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*

When tranfers come rolling out of our cylinder press, we check them by simply pressing our hands down on the transfer paper -- if they stick to your hands and rise from the conveyor, then we raise the temperature slightly till the problem goes away.

But I think you're working with home transfers from an home printer... and I don't know about those 



-- Jim


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*

No, I'm working with plastisol transfers. They are normally only partially cured in the oven, no? I'm asking how can I tell if they're cured *after* I press them with a heat press.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*

Hmmm...I'm not familiar with made at home transfers. Interesting.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> Hmmm...I'm not familiar with made at home transfers. Interesting.


No, these are normal plastisol transfers made by a printer.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



> Hmmm...I'm not familiar with made at home transfers. Interesting.


Jimmy, I don't think Jose is talking about transfers made at home 

He's talking about the same type of transfers that you get from the big name plastisol transfer companies.

He just needs to know (and I'd like to know as well), how does the operator who is doing the heat pressing of those transfers know if the ink is cured after they have pressed the shirt.

I've noticed some plastisol transfers feeling "tacky" after I applied them so I'm wondering how I would know if it was cured or not.

Hope that helps to clarify things a bit  Anybody have any tips?


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



Rodney said:


> Jimmy, I don't think Jose is talking about transfers made at home
> 
> He's talking about the same type of transfers that you get from the big name plastisol transfer companies.
> 
> ...


Ahhhh, I see. And when I look back at those replies of mine, I see where I'm off...

O.k., here goes. Once you press your transfer down on the garment, check the transfer paper for ink still on it. If your transfer has left ink on the paper then you know you should raise the temperature of your heat-press. I use a five (5) degree gradual increment process when this happens. My press is set at 365 degrees and atleast 55psi ... so when I see ink still on the transfer paper (and I'm not talking about the ink-stains you'll sometimes see) I increase my heat press temperature five degrees higher -- and take it from there.

Let me know if I answered your question this time!

-- Jim


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

And also, here's another major point to consider: The quality of materials your heat transfer vendor uses. Quality materials makes for quality transfers. There are cheap inks to use and quality inks to use.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> Let me know if I answered your question this time!


Sort of. I think that's probably one thing I can test for. However, in this particular case, The transfer has adhesive crystals so after I peel, I think the ink is coming off whether it wants to or not! 

If I wasn't clear before, the reason I'm asking is that this particular printer has promised me that his flex formulation can be cured on the paper so that I don't have to press above 325 degrees (the typical cure temp for plastisol). Because the ink has a flex additive, it should not crack. The adhesive will melt at a significantly lower temp (275 or so) and keep the transfer on the shirt. So far this has been the ONLY solution I have found that satisfies my requirement of sub 300 press temps.

The front lines at the printer either don't seem to grasp what I'm asking, don't know the answer and are giving me the stock pressing instructions or think I'm an idiot because it's OBVIOUS that their cold peel transfers are cured to a certain level. I'm making some progress but I think there is a gap in their communication process that will take some time to fill.

What I'm looking for is obvious signs that I need more temp/longer dwell and there may not be an easy way to tell.


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## Mr.4ColorProcess (Dec 5, 2005)

If the ink doesn't transfer to the shirt, then raise the temperature of your heat press. If the design seems to almost fall off after transferring it, then you might want to consider increasing the psi of your press. Start with a lower temperature and work your way up until the design transfers correctly. Use five degree increments.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



Moo Spot Prints said:


> Sort of. I think that's probably one thing I can test for. However, in this particular case, The transfer has adhesive crystals so after I peel, I think the ink is coming off whether it wants to or not!
> 
> If I wasn't clear before, the reason I'm asking is that this particular printer has promised me that his flex formulation can be cured on the paper so that I don't have to press above 325 degrees (the typical cure temp for plastisol). Because the ink has a flex additive, it should not crack. The adhesive will melt at a significantly lower temp (275 or so) and keep the transfer on the shirt. So far this has been the ONLY solution I have found that satisfies my requirement of sub 300 press temps.
> 
> ...


Jose

If you press the transfer according to the instructions and the image transfers correctly I think you are good to go. You may try the scratch test or give it a wash test. I assume the transfer printer knows what they are producing. I assume this because to formulate low temp stretch transfers they would or should have done a bit of trial and error before selling the technique. I do have a question for you...are you trying to press on nylon or low temp fabrics? Just curious why you need low temp transfers.



Mr.4ColorProcess said:


> O.k., here goes. Once you press your transfer down on the garment, check the transfer paper for ink still on it. If your transfer has left ink on the paper then you know you should raise the temperature of your heat-press. I use a five (5) degree gradual increment process when this happens. My press is set at 365 degrees and atleast 55psi ... so when I see ink still on the transfer paper (and I'm not talking about the ink-stains you'll sometimes see) I increase my heat press temperature five degrees higher -- and take it from there.


All ink transfers from the paper.........
With cold peel yes, hot peel yes, hot-split no and or using a cold peel as a hot-split no.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



Moo Spot Prints said:


> So far this has been the ONLY solution I have found that satisfies my requirement of sub 300 press temps.


Hi Jose, stretch plastisol transfers below 325F application I don't think they can be made from what I know. 

We have tested such for a few years now and 325F is the lowest we can get it done. Takling about opaque WHITE ink printing on Dark shirts, Hot peels. 

Have you looked into low temp Nylon type transfers yet ?


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



MotoskinGraphix said:


> I do have a question for you...are you trying to press on nylon or low temp fabrics? Just curious why you need low temp transfers.


Yes, I am pressing onto performance/wicking polyester. The fabric is damaged at high heat and pressure.

I am not following the instructions as I've been given contradictory information. The printed instructions say to press at 325 for 10-15s. My verbal and email communication say that I should be able to press as low as 275. The question is whether or not they need to perform an additional step to my transfers - i.e. cure them more in the conveyor. I have found 285 for 20 secs to work. These are cold peels, if that makes any difference.

So far I've my tests have survived 2 days of wear and about 10 washes. I *think* I'm ok, I'm just trying to verify it independently.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



T-BOT said:


> Hi Jose, stretch plastisol transfers below 325F application I don't think they can be made from what I know.


They can. 

Now you know. 

It's different than yours. These are cold peels. Remember your thread on 'Why cold peels?" This would be one reason. You cure the ink and use a separate adhesive to attach it. 

I'd rather use your one step hot peel but my material won't allow it. I have to do a press, cool, peel, repress with pad or teflon sheet depending on the finish I want. So far the results are encouraging.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: How can I tell if the ink is cured?*



T-BOT said:


> Have you looked into low temp Nylon type transfers yet ?


No, what are those?


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

I don't know....

I think at 325F with 2-3 sec. hot peel plastisol would work out better (may be not on the fabric you are using) than 15-30 sec. application. I just can't see low 200F's plastisol holding up after being heat press applied/printed. 

......but Im here to learn.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> I don't know....
> 
> I think at 325F with 2-3 sec. hot peel plastisol would work out better (may be not on the fabric you are using) than 15-30 sec. application. I just can't see low 200F's plastisol holding up after being heat press applied/printed.


That's why I'm asking. My understanding is the same as yours. These guys claim that they can cure their ink before it ever gets to the press. It's the crystals that hold it on. I am trying to find a way to test their claims. 

Why would a 2-3 sec application be better than a 15-30 at a lower temp? Isn't curing a combination of heat and time?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I have one more question. With dye sub printing on performance wicking apparel the temps are quite high with fairly long dwell times...am I missing something..am I lost in translation?


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> I have one more question. With dye sub printing on performance wicking apparel the temps are quite high with fairly long dwell times...am I missing something..am I lost in translation?


Nope, you're not missing anything. 

I have seen fabric damage with the vapor performance fabric (at sublimation temps), although not nearly to the extent as I have on Coolmax or the Zorrel Syntrel. You will see this described as a 'shine'. The material used in the vapor line is much more tolerant to heat (IMO they are designed for sublimation first, performance second). At the same temps, the other fabrics looked like grilled cheese sandwiches in comparison.

It also has a lot to do with the weave. The more textured the weave, the more susceptible to damage it is. What makes these fabrics work so well is that the structure has lots of surface area for moisture to move into and get evaporated from. The heat collapses these structures and closes them up, compromising the evaporative potential. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

You don't see this type of thing from the t-shirt like 100% polyester fabrics because their weave is a lot tighter.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

that makes sense.

curious,

do you think the actual quality of the fabric color/dye has something to do with the way it reacts poorly to heat ?

The reason I ask is because I read some where something to do with dyeing lycra/spamdex etc. it was not possible till 15 years ago or so ...(i think dim rosy, not sure of dates)..... so I wonder if it's just a simple dyeing problem at the garment/fabric manufacturing end that can be fixed in order to take heat press application.  

What Im trying to say is that the actual *dyes* on these man made fabrics may not be done to accomodate heat pressing,.... thats why they dis-color.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> do you think the actual quality of the fabric color/dye has something to do with the way it reacts poorly to heat ?


No. I get the same effect with white and colors. I think it just boils down to the material. In general polyester just has a low heat tolerance unless it's formulated with something else.

Look at the samples I sent you. It should be very clear what I'm talking about. 

The dyeing is probably due to the filaments not having anything for the dye to bond to. AFAIK poly strands are not fibrous like cotton. Not sure how they licked that problem.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Look at the samples I sent you. It should be very clear what I'm talking about.


thanks for the samples btw.  

I too have had that dis-color happen on some fabrics but not all... that's what is so freakin' confusing and fraustrating for me. So I blame the dye jobber.  

...just like one of our sew contractors told us that everytime we printed on a garment part for them to complete the garment it came back to them shrunk down. We thought he was nuts but as it turned out he was right.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

One more question about performance fabric. I understand many companies incorporate a finish or coating to achieve wicking performance. Could this be the actual cause of the sheen effect? I have a couple Vapor samples which arent waffeld knits...they are similar to regular tees. They have no coating and the fabrics are made for dye-sub. I am wondering if plastisol is your actual answer to what your end goal actually is. If I was a runner wearing a high tech wick shirt , the last thing I would want on my back is a transfer that absorbs light and heat and kills the performance of what I am wearing. I think maybe DTG is going to be something to look into.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> The dyeing is probably due to the filaments not having anything for the dye to bond to. AFAIK poly strands are not fibrous like cotton. Not sure how they licked that problem.


Poly is dope dyed, so it's taken care of earlier in the process.


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

DTG requires you to press the garment after printing. I talked to several people at the LB ISS and they confirmed it. 350 degrees or so.

I'm convinced that the wicking is mostly achieved through surface area. The 'wicking' coatings I think are a bit of snake oil. Coatings for anti microbial properties I can believe. The better fabrics seem to have their yarns engineered so as optimize the wicking (using hollow fibers for capillary action for instance). I found somebody's thesis on the subject some time back but never read through the whole thing. I can tell you this for sure: They do not all perform the same. 

My test is simple -- If i wear this shirt during my marathon training runs will it 

a) keep me relatively dry so that I don't immediately become hypothermic when I stop or the wind kicks up?

b) keep me from broiling alive while being out for 3-4 hours in 90 degree weather?

c) can I wear it twice between washes and not pass out from the stench?

I realize that I'm not the average consumer. That's ok. Neither is my target base.  

You are right to question my choice of plastisol because it's going to seal the fabric. I am making sure my designs don't have large solid areas of ink coverage -- small chest and/or arm logo and line art & text on the back with lots of white space. I've run a LOT in my vinyl cut test and have not noticed significant adverse effects. After a few miles, you sweat all over, not just on your back. 

Sublimation *should* be the logical choice. I just can't use it. In a way I'm glad. I haven't had good experiences with sawgrass and would just as well not give them any more of my money. I can't wait for the next progression in the technology to come!


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Jose,
Obviously you have performance fabric experience which makes this a great dialog. I would love to see some pics of waffle apparel you have printed with dye-sup and plastisol transfers. I am sure some fabrics work better than others and as you are a runner its nice to hear some front line actual comparisons.
Is there another fabric out there used in performance apparel such as the bamboo gear? It sounds as though you have tried the different printing techniques, understand the temps and are attempting low heat plastisol transfers.
Obviously you have done some research and found a transfer maker that can supply the transfers. You have worn the the gear and washed it for durability. Seems you are on the right track and just not confident enough to say this is it and I can sell this gear as pro quality. Personally I admire the endeavor and vision. I am interested in dye-sub and looking toward the future advances in printable apparel, alternative fabrics etc. 
In short pressing the waffle fabrics colapse the cells and closes off the wicking potential. I wonder if in using DTG you can flash cure or conveyor dry set the inks using a lower heat and longer dwell?


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## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

I'm glad you're getting something out of my misfortunes. 

I did not think about the dtg using a flash or conveyor cure. The fabrics can definitely withstand indirect heat as tons of people screen on them. It's the direct heat that kills.

Unfortunately this is a side thing for me and I don't have the time and resources to experiment with dtg. Too darn expensive. I'll take some pics tonight.

The vapor stuff sublimates beautifully. I haven't been able to get perfect results but I've seen them. Foam, light pressure and letting the paper hang over the foam seem to be the right combination.


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