# How to match the right color with water based inks?



## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

I've searched the forum for this topic quite some time and did find some useful information. But still I don't know if I really got it right. 


So is it right, that there are no water based Pantone colors? 
But there are water based colors from Matsui and I would need to take their color guide to mix and match my desired color, because Pantones color guide would get me to wrong results, right?

And also, I definitely need an original color guide, there is no way to get the mixture percentages of each color out of photoshop or illustrator, right?


thanks for your help guys


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## tlbays (Apr 9, 2008)

Hi Marc

You're very close to being 100% correct.

Matsui makes the 301 Series in the range of Pantone Primary Colors;
used to mix their various colors found in the Pantone Fan Deck.
(and yes, you'll want to obtain one of these if you choose this color communication system).

The Fan Deck contains formulas that are relatively accurate for the Matsui *301RC Series*;
a transparent version meant for white shirt prints.

Regarding the semi-opaque *301OW Series* and the *301HO Series*,
the Matsui computer-formula-guide tends to be more accurate for Pantone mixes of those series.
(because of the higher % of opaque base used in those primary colors)
There are some availability limitations in some of those series' formulas, and color adjustment using OW and HO is more frequently needed.

Happy trails!


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## ScreenPrintH2O (Oct 6, 2009)

Matsui offers pantone matching software that goes along with their mixing systems. Using the exact mixtures listed on a pantone book will not get you the exact color you are trying to mix, BUT if your using a pigment and base system of waterbased inks then the pantone mixing formulas are a good starting point in figuring out how to get to the color you need.

My company uses a pigment and base system for our waterbased inks and since there was no pantone mixing system offered by our manufacturer we have since gone through and matched the whole pantone book and saved the formulas in a database for quick recalling.


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## John_Sheridan (Oct 8, 2009)

ScreenPrintH2O said:


> My company uses a pigment and base system for our waterbased inks and since there was no pantone mixing system offered by our manufacturer we have since gone through and matched the whole pantone book and saved the formulas in a database for quick recalling.


Huge Kudos to you! That's no small feat to do. 
PMS matching has been the problem with WB for yrs, you had primary colors and had to make your own pantone colors. I found it was easier to tell the customer up front that WB PMS matching was hit or miss and to try and get them to work with primary colors or easily made colors.


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## corradomatt (Jan 16, 2007)

John_Sheridan said:


> Huge Kudos to you! That's no small feat to do.
> PMS matching has been the problem with WB for yrs, you had primary colors and had to make your own pantone colors. I found it was easier to tell the customer up front that WB PMS matching was hit or miss and to try and get them to work with primary colors or easily made colors.


Actually, with the Matsui pigment and base system, pantone matching is fairly simple. Of course, there are some colors that don't come out perfect. But then again, I don't know of an ink system in the world where every color comes out exactly perfect.

With regard to the HO line of ink, we have found (through our customers' experiences) that it is extremely difficult to color match pantones. In fact, Matsui has no color matching software for this line of ink. 

Their software does have formulas for the OW line but we haven't had a good response from customers about this ink line either.


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## marcmarcmarc (Jun 20, 2009)

thanks for the responses.

The Matsui solution sounds good. But the problem is, I don't think it is available here in Germany. Having it sent over would probably be too expensive and not very cost-efficient. 

Thanks though for the info!


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## ScreenPrintH2O (Oct 6, 2009)

There are Matsui distributors in both France and Italy. I talked to a local company here in Minnesota and even though they were not a Matsui distributor they were able to get the inks anyway. Here is a link to the Matsui distributors:

Matsui-Color | Contacts - Specialty Department


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## Dan K (Nov 15, 2006)

corradomatt said:


> Actually, with the Matsui pigment and base system, pantone matching is fairly simple. Of course, there are some colors that don't come out perfect. But then again, I don't know of an ink system in the world where every color comes out exactly perfect.


We use the Rutland WB99 system here and we can match pantones. As he says, some colors don't come out perfect, and sometimes they print out differently on different colored shirts, but for the most part it is very accurate...


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## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

Just wanted to second DanK we use rutland and the majority of the time we can get so close people are cool with the results.


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## tlbays (Apr 9, 2008)

Hi again, all.....

Although we don't print, we have a color-matching service for the trade
and have pretty good experience with the Matsui 301 Series.
The RC version (for white shirt printing) has been around a long time
and is relatively accurate with little effort if you follow the formula guide(s).

The trick to this system for the OW (semi-opaque) and HO (high opaque) colors is to use the PC pigments
(PC stands for Pantone Concentrates) to "boost" the color intensity of the existing Pantone Primary pre-mixed colors
that can be too "pastel" as the result of the opaque white bases present. (It's easier than adding the separate NEO Pigments)
We then use the OW formula guide with either, and come up pretty close with minor tweak requirements on certain colors.

For those of you used to Pigment + Base systems, Matusi uses their NEO pigment concentrates
to formulate the PC versions to produce that "familiar" color range.
You'll find all the formulas on how they make the Pantone Primaries using NEO's and Bases right on their color cards.
[media]http://www.matsui-color.com/images/301_RC.jpg[/media]
[media]http://www.matsui-color.com/images/301_OW.jpg[/media]
[media]http://www.matsui-color.com/images/301_HO.jpg[/media]
Their computer guide also shows NEO, PC, or Premixed Pantone Primary Color formulas too, although limited in scope.

I hope I didn't just confuse everything.......

Happy trails!


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## koustubh (Aug 5, 2014)

hello....can we use process colours in water based inks to match the different shades.these process colours are made from mixing bases and the pigments only.


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## koustubh (Aug 5, 2014)

can i use the process colours which are prepared by using water based bases and pigments to match different pantone shades.As it is not affordable to me to buy matsui inks and in our company we prepare our own water based bases.


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