# Prep work for a tee biz



## tiffhlove

Hello again,

I am so nervous yet so excited about trying to get my t-shirt biz started but I find there is so much to do. I spend literally around 2 hours a night on my computer looking at competition, reading about seo, looking for tees in bulk, screen printer information, gathering data related to my field, coming up with designs. It is all very scary and overwhelming especially since I am a newbie starting out. I did not realize that this is a VERY competitive industry. I am so ambitious and I think my creative side speaks volumes therefore I believe I have what it takes to become successful and I don't mind doing the work at all, in fact, that is how I feel I will avoid failure. I just want to know if most people felt the way that I do when they first put the idea of starting a tee biz in motion. I want this to happen so bad and it will but I tell myself everyday don't go too fast, take the time Tiffany and research all that you can and then put together a step-by-step plan for each aspect of my venture. Please tell me I am not crazy or that I am not the only one with anxiety at times at all of the leg work to make sure you start a successful company.  

Also, has anyone literally sold t-shirts out of their car at any type of outing or event or posted up anywhere and tried to sell them right on the spot? If so, was your traffic good?


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## badalou

Just what stage are you in. what equipment are you using. what is your plan. I hope not out of your car?


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## tiffhlove

Hi Badalou,

I am in the beginning stage. Beginning stage meaning I already have my company name, tax numbers etc. I have 6 designs so far and in process of getting ready to have those screenprinted. Now I am at the stage of research, research and more research on competition, marketing and getting my website up a running and how to run a successful business. I am looking at different avenues to start off with to get my name out there, example: flyers, flea markets, door-to-door and possibly even out of my car! I am trying to find the best angle to do that by. My shirts will be screen printed instead of heat transfers so I will have money already tied up in inventory that I will need to move as fast as I can which is why I am asking about all the different avenues. Once I have my website up in running it will get me a better chance of being noticed and I can then direct my marketing efforts directly to my website for business and hope that will help me move inventory faster but until then I am just trying to start somewhere to get my name out there once all my research is done and I my ducks are in a row.


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## SC2565

wat avenues are u taking for research im only asking because im in the same boat just haven't found the exact place to find out about the competition and the "urban" market ill be servicing


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## RAHchills

tiffhlove said:


> Please tell me I am not crazy or that I am not the only one with anxiety at times at all of the leg work to make sure you start a successful company.


I don't think you're crazy. I'm ramping up to be online in July and there is a lot of work yet to be done. My advice is to list everything that you know you need to do, and then start checking off the list. For me, that really makes things more manageable... plus takes the stress out of having to remember everything I need to do which seems overwhelming at times.

If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.


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## Comin'OutSwingin

Welcome to our world Tiffany!

Just so you know thay you are not alone, I know EXACTLY how you are feeling.

And for your question about selling, I've sold hundreds of shirts right out of the back of my SUV!

Most of the time I was just set-up anywhere, but if I was at the mall and someone asked me where I got the shirt I was wearing, you bet I would take them out to the parking lot and sell them a shirt!

I've also sold many shirts at events. I just did a local high school sports event last week. Just working after my regular day job, I sold about 400 sports-themed shirts.

Stick in there and hang with it. My site isn't up and running yet, and I still feel overwhelmed at times.


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## badalou

I will pop your bubble just a bit. Don't believe that if you build a site, they will come. You do need to get out and show your stuff. I am not crazy about the flea market area as I think they expect dirt cheap pricing. Be a little classy about your business. There are things called trunk sales. You make an appointment with a local clothing store (an independent, as chains will not do this) and ask that you sell your shirts out front or in their store for a day and you split the profits. If the store sees that your shirts are selling then you may have a client to move your product. Ok, here is another idea for all of you. I was Chief of canteen Service for the VA Hospital in Los Angeles for 10 years. I had one of the largest retail operations in the country. Every day in my cafeteria I had a vendor from the outside selling. Now right away you people are thinking "Patients" Nope staff. Over 4000 employees in LA. What I collected was 20% of their sales and I made sure they had receipts. Now I am getting ready to do it. There are hospitals in your area and they often let outside vendors come in and even large companies. They often collect funds for employee functions. Okay another $5.00 buck


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## Solmu

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> if I was at the mall and someone asked me where I got the shirt I was wearing, you bet I would take them out to the parking lot and sell them a shirt!


Just curious - has that ever happened? I can't imagine going up to someone and saying "nice shirt". About the only strangers who have commented on my clothes are retail staff - who are not necessarily sincere, and not in a position to come out to the car park and buy a shirt. Just wondering if this is one of those 'each of us lives in a different world' kind of things, or you're just hopeful it will happen one day


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## Rodney

> I can't imagine going up to someone and saying "nice shirt"


I think it happens a lot with slogan t-shirts (although it did happen one time with the threadless "downpour" t-shirt which isn't a slogan tee). 

I've had it happen more times than you can imagine. Perfect strangers coming up to talk about my t-shirt, ask me where I got it, tell me a story.

But I agree, I don't think I would ever stop someone and ask them where they got their t-shirt either....and I loooove t-shirts. I'd probably just try to google it when I got home.


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## Solmu

Hmmm... maybe I should work on being more approachable then


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## Rodney

> Hmmm... maybe I should work on being more approachable then


That's the funny thing. If I saw me in the grocery store, I wouldn't approach me


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## monkeylantern

I've been approached many times about a shirt I'm wearing.

But maybe they were just trying to pick me up...


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## RAHchills

I've got a shirt that says "Slacker" but it looks like the Snickers candy bar logo that I get comments on. Just last week some guy at the gas station on base said, nice shirt, I need two of those for my sons...

I wish I had come up with the idea, I coulda made a sale. 

All that being said, though, I don't ever go up to people and ask where they got their shirt.


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## Comin'OutSwingin

Solmu said:


> Just curious - has that ever happened? I can't imagine going up to someone and saying "nice shirt". About the only strangers who have commented on my clothes are retail staff - who are not necessarily sincere, and not in a position to come out to the car park and buy a shirt. Just wondering if this is one of those 'each of us lives in a different world' kind of things, or you're just hopeful it will happen one day


That happens to me all the time. Also I don't go to the mall much at all, but on average I would say somewhere between 6-7 people/month come up to me when I'm out in public to ask about one of my shirts that I'm wearing.

I've probably sold 20 shirts since late last year this way.


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## Buechee

I can see that happening if you are wearing the tee in the right place at the right time.


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## eightonecube

hi Tiff,

I am in the same situation as u... starting from scratch, got some design done.. will arrange some time to meet up printers...
how many t-s are u planning to print for yr first batch?


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## tiffhlove

Hello,

I plan on starting out with about 50 to 100 per design. With screen printing the more you order the lower your cost so I at least shoot for 50-100. However, with that said that means my money is tied up in inventory so I have to get my product out there to move as fast as I can.  What about you?


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## eightonecube

i have decided to try 2 or 3 designs first... about 50 each...
i am worried too abt getting it out (selling it)...
hvnt really work out a plan yet.

screen printing is cheaper if print more?but will it be a good print? i dont really know...


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## Buechee

eightonecube said:


> i have decided to try 2 or 3 designs first... about 50 each...
> i am worried too abt getting it out (selling it)...
> hvnt really work out a plan yet.
> 
> screen printing is cheaper if print more?but will it be a good print? i dont really know...


I went and looked at the work from the printer I plan to use so I would know what my shirts might look like or at least the quality of the screen print.


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## Solmu

eightonecube said:


> screen printing is cheaper if print more?but will it be a good print? i dont really know...


Screen printing should give you a good result, but obviously that is going to depend on the individual printer you contract to do the print run for you.

Most printers will charge on a sliding scale where the more you order the cheaper it is (though some printers have a flat rate regardless of quantity, this is rare). The quantity you order should not have any affect on the quality, as all jobs should be treated equally regardless of the order size (that's part of the point of a sliding price scale - a small customer is profitable because they pay more per shirt, and a large customer is profitable because high volume means a lot of money... granted they won't be equal in the printer's mind, but a professional will do the best job they can on both orders).


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## Buechee

solmu made a goodpoint as far as customer service goes. A small run should be treated just like a large one. If it isn't, the company may not get the big run from the small guy when the time comes for one. I for one hope to have many big runs oneday.


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## eightonecube

i went to check out with a printing factory..
they use machine to print... lots of different effects


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## printchic

Hi All,

Congrats to all those just starting out in the tee biz arena.

Here's something I learned along the way and want to share with you that may help you save some $$$.

We setup at a local mall and had all types of designs for mom, dad, aunts, uncles, etc. We had designs in ever size, a couple of colors, etc. To our dismay a lot of them "didn't sell" so we found ourselves "lugging" the same shirts "back and forth" to each event we did.

Finally i sat down and started evaluating "how to avoid lugging shirts back and forth as well as wasting shirts on designs that were not selling.

This is what worked for me and i recommend for you;

1.) 
Instead of "buying screenprinted shirts" of all your designs in all the shirt sizes/color, etc you wish to offer have them printed as "screenprinted heat transfers"

2.)
Invest in a heat press

3.) As you get the order you press the design on the shirt color/size ordered.

Why?

Having 50 designs (for example) printed on shirts of all sizes and "then some don't sell" you are out of the major $$$ whereas transfer don't cost as much.

You are essentially stuck with shirts that don't sell gathering dusk on your shelf.

By pressing the "screenprinted" designs on your shirt as you go it allows you to "stock only a small quality of blank t-shirts/sweatshirts, etc" and fill orders as needed. Once you "know you have a hit" with certain designs you may want to then get them screenprinted on the shirts and keep them in stock. 

This allows you to "not waste" your $$$ and test your design(s) appeal at the same time.


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## Buechee

good idea. But I don't have a heat press. I was hoping to win the one from this site. I was going to print up 20 or 30 shirts and see how they sale first.


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## kentphoto

printchic said:


> Having 50 designs (for example) printed on shirts of all sizes and "then some don't sell" you are out of the major $$$ whereas transfer don't cost as much.
> 
> You are essentially stuck with shirts that don't sell gathering dusk on your shelf.



I've learned this lesson too. I got some shirts screen printed 2 years ago, and still have some unsold. 

Bought a heat press, and am saving myself the hassle of sitting on a pile of inventory. For me it's also a matter of space. I live in an apartment, and space is tight. So it's easier for me to file 100 transfer sheets, as opposed to 100 shirts in a box.


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## tiffhlove

I see what you guys are saying but what about risk? Wouldn't you agree that you have to take some risk to get a reward? Even if they don't sell. I agree that you probably shouldn't go and have several hundred printed at once until you know how it will sell but ordering a decent quantity, I would think is okay, dependent upon your budget of course. I mean don't get me wrong, no one wants to lose any amount of money it's just I am someone who does not know how to use a heat press at all and if I went out and bought one it would most likely take me a lot of time to learn how to use it well enough to produce a quality outcome which means I will also lose money wasting product. Again, what you guys are saying is so true but some business sometimes is risk/reward. Sometimes you will completely flop other times you may not. I was just wanting others opinions on this because maybe I am wrong.


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## Solmu

tiffhlove said:


> I see what you guys are saying but what about risk? Wouldn't you agree that you have to take some risk to get a reward? Even if they don't sell.


I think it comes down to personal preference. Some choose to take a more conservative approach, others don't. Each approach has their good points and bad points.

Personally I think a lot of people are way too risk adverse. But on the other hand when you consider how many businesses fail, who's to say you're the one who won't? We all think our stuff is much better than average, but most of us will get a reality check.

Speaking for myself, I don't see the point in *not* throwing some money at it. What's a few grand anyway? I'm not wealthy, but like most here I can afford a computer... that's better than most of the world. That's also wealthy enough that if I lose $4,000-$8,000 starting a business it's going to hurt, but it's not going to ruin my life. Plenty of people rack up more in personal debt and recover (admittedly plenty don't recover) - personally I've avoided that pitfall so I guess I can try this one out instead 

I'm happy to invest some money into this. If you go half in, you may find you threw away that money - whereas if you'd put in more it might have paid off. If I fail, I'm a little worse off than when I started. If I succeed.... well that really _would_ change my life, wouldn't it?

If I had $20,000-$120,000 sitting around I wouldn't balk at investing that either.



tiffhlove said:


> it's just I am someone who does not know how to use a heat press at all and if I went out and bought one it would most likely take me a lot of time to learn how to use it well enough to produce a quality outcome which means I will also lose money wasting product.


You'll certainly waste a few transfers and a few shirts, but I think the learning curve is simple enough that your wastage would be very low (less than $50? - I don't know, you'd have to ask someone more experienced with that).


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## Solmu

Incidentally, the more money your invest/risk you take, the more Lou's mantra (business plan-business plan-business plan) applies. A business plan is a good idea even for a zero capital startup, but it's an absolute necessity if you're investing real money.


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## RAHchills

Solmu said:


> Incidentally, the more money your invest/risk you take, the more Lou's mantra (business plan-business plan-business plan) applies. A business plan is a good idea even for a zero capital startup, but it's an absolute necessity if you're investing real money.


I agree with you Lewis. I just took a course for work and ran across this quote which I think holds true:

"Amateurs worry about tactics, Professionals worry about strategy, Experts worry about logistics."

Actually sitting down and writing a business plan helps get your head around the task of running a successful business. Then its just all about execution and learning from mistakes from there.


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## tiffhlove

I completely agree. That is one of the first things that I did because that is your blueprint, that is what you will follow. It is not that you are not able to be successful without it you just may run into more roadblocks.


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## dub3325

A risk would be going to vegas and tossing 2 grand on black. A wise investment would be taking time to learn your product, researching, and following an organized business plan. 



> I am someone who does not know how to use a heat press at all and if I went out and bought one it would most likely take me a lot of time to learn how to use it well enough to produce a quality outcome


In my opinion, even though you don't know how to heat press, you should still know all facets of the business you are about to enter. Like Solmu said, the learning curve is pretty simple so your losses would be minimal. Starting a business is hard work, and although you have learned your competition....there is a whole new area that you have yet to tackle. 

Also, if you had the ability to print on demand....why not take it? Of course you would be "risking" more by preprinting your designs, but to me, that is just throwing your money away. Given, if you have the ability to get rid of them all, then more power to you....but it would be extremely difficult without a brick and mortar store.


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## tiffhlove

Thanks for your replies everyone. I am going into business for myself so I already know that it takes hard work and I also know I have to put in a lot of research which I have been doing and am doing, that's fundamental to me. Risks to one may not be risks to another and I definatley disagree with you when you say I would not sell out of all of my inventory. Who said that just because you do not have a brick and mortar store that you will not have sell outs? I hope you do not go into your business thinking this way. There is great power in what we think. I completely agree that I could save money as well as even make more money if I handled the tees myself whether it is heat press or screen printing. I am sure the learning curve is not that hard but here is the deal, I am starting this venture and will have to wear all hats as it is, I definately will not have time between my full-time job and trying to start up this t-shirt biz to do any of that myself. The time I will have once I finish doing my research and getting my site going will go to marketing and getting my product out there. So yes, I will pay more but I would rather outsource. Also, I am willing to take a risk on my creativity because I believe in myself. Even if I fail I never want to wonder what if.


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## DFras

tiffhlove said:


> Even if I fail I never want to wonder what if.


Exactly! And for me, this was the bottom-line. Just to get started was a step in the right direction (I hope). I have something to work "for" and "towards."
From what I have seen, here, I am not the only one.
Good luck to you!


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## dub3325

Hi Tiff,

I didn't mean to say that you cannot sell all of your inventory. I'm just saying it can be difficult. What I mean by difficult....is the time it would take to sell them all. Of course you can sell all of your inventory, but the question is....in how long, and is the wait worth it? Its all about opportunity costs.

To each his/her own, we all have our own business plans. I am in no way undermining your creativity, so don't take it at all in the wrong way. I am just posting so that it may spark other ideas of the angles that you may not be seeing.

I am in a similar situation as you, I have a fulltime job and want to branch off into my own project (er....ANOTHER project hah), so I see where your time constraints come from.

In any case, best of luck with your new business. Can't wait to see your designs!!


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## tiffhlove

Hi Dub3325,

No offense taken at all I appreciate everyone's opinions and views that is why I post threads; I need to hear from all angles in case their is something I did not think about. I wish you luck as well in your business and hopefully you will see my designs in the very near future. I hope we all can get a piece of the American Pie.


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## bac

printchic said:


> By pressing the "screenprinted" designs on your shirt as you go it allows you to "stock only a small quality of blank t-shirts/sweatshirts, etc" and fill orders as needed. Once you "know you have a hit" with certain designs you may want to then get them screenprinted on the shirts and keep them in stock.


Excellent point, printchic! May I ask about the quality of your (I'm assuming plastisol) transfer shirts in relation to your screen printed shirts? Is there a difference? Can you even tell between the two??

ThanX so much!


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## Ayres Clothing

I am in a similar boat but a little further down the river if you know what I mean and I will tell you what I did.

About 8 months ago, I decided that I wanted to start a clothing company. But to actually make any money on a clothing line would take a long time, so in the meantime I decided to do custom printing for others. 

I started out basically with a website. I am lucky in knowing some webdesign, so I created a website to showcase my designs. My clothing line is directed at the surf, skate, snow industry, so I went out and started posting in other forums trying to generate some interest in my website. Some forums let you post links, some do not. So now I started getting traffic to my website. I created a forum on my site so people could post feedback about designs and what not. I found out what people liked and disliked. Finally I found a design that people really liked. Now it was time to take another step.

Now that I had a design people liked, it was time to get some shirts made. I wasn't ready to invest in silk screening equipment and I didn't want to give up the quality by going with a heat press. So I found a local silk screener that would print shirts for cheap, but still offered professional quality. I found someone to print a 1 color front and a 2 color back design on a high quality 100% cotton shirt for $6.00 and that included the price of a shirt. I ordered 60 shirts. I sold about 30 shirts to friends and ended up giving away a bunch to some kids who I sponsored on my skate team.

At about the same time, I started taking custom orders from people and working as a middle man. I would go out and find people locally and on the internet that needed shirts made and I would get my great deal of around $5-$6 a shirt (finished product) and I would mark the shirts up about $2. I found one order that was for 144 shirts and I did the math and realized that I was going to make $288 by marking the shirts up $2, but how much could I make if I did the printing myself? The screen printer was paying about $2 for a blank shirt and then supplies are fairly cheap on a per shirt basis, but we will say it costs him $3 per shirt for the finished product meaning he was making close to $432 on the order. So I started seriously thinking about printing shirts myself because I could make my markup plus the markup of the screen printer if I did it myself. I could make the shirts for $3 and sell them for $8 on a custom order meaning on 144 shirts I would make $720. That would cover a lot of the cost of some screen printing equipment.

Well, I started taking on several custom printing orders here and then until I realized finding business wasn't an issue. So I started looking at purchasing some screen printing equipment. I did months of research and basically learned everything I needed to know. Finally, one day I came across an awesome deal on some equipment, I made the investment of a couple thousand and I was off.

Now I can make that extra markup and make more than double to profit I was making before on custom orders. I was also able to make small runs of my designs and didn't have to blow a ton of money on designs that may not sell. They only thing I had to invest on my own designs was my time pretty much and 50-100 bucks instead of 300-400 dollars. Right now I am looking at going to special events and selling shirts. Events like marathons, air shows, you name it. But I am still doing some research on special permits I might need to sell at those types of events. 

This type of business is a lot of work. I think the path I took worked out alright. The only thing I would change is that initial investment I made in one of my designs. I am still sitting on some shirts from that 60 shirt run. I would recommend figuring out a way to do a much smaller run. If you need any advice, please feel free to ask. I wish you the best of luck.


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## tiffhlove

Hello Ayers Clothing,

I completely understand what you are saying, even my boyfriend put that option out there to me. He said baby why don't you take a screen printing class to learn it and buy the equipment so you will come out cheaper and make more profit. My only problem that I have with that is time. I will not have time to market and to screen print( at least I haven't figured and angle for me to be able to do that yet) so I figure I will have to bite my lip and hopefully be smart about the number of designs I order as well as get them sold. I wish I had the time to do it all but because it is only me running this operation at this point with a full-time job and children, time is really of the essence. I am basically gambling on my creativity and the likes of my market and I hope I come out on top. I will say this industry just t-shirts by themselves does take a lot of research and work to get your product in front of your intended consumer but I do believe all things are possible and if you try something has to happen, you may not be a instant hit or it may not take off the way you want or then again it may take off the way you want. For me I want to try it to see how I do just so I will never say what if. If I find that my designs are not selling and I am waisting money I will definately change my angle and look into how to make time to learn how to screen print, it's just right now I don't see how I could fit that in and unfortunately I know I am losing money not doing the t-shirts myself but it feels as if I have no other options at this point and with the heat transfers; I like screen printing because of the quality which is one of the things I would like to stand-out about my tees.  Your advice is very helpful and I am glad everything worked out for you. How are things still going? Are you seeing an increase in sales volume? Is there anything you would change at all?


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## Ayres Clothing

Things are going well right now for my business. I have been hung up on some of the paperwork behind the business, but I have cleared most of it up. I am working on getting my own labels in my shirts because I plan on selling to retailers so that has been my latest hurdle. I am talking to a couple of retailers and should have some of my shirts in local shops very soon. One of my negotiating tools with this one shop was that the owner needed a small run of shirts for his skate team, so I told him I would give him a great deal on his small run of shirts if he would take some of my shirts in his shop. And he said if all goes well, he will give me his order for his label for the store which would be around 100 shirts at a time. So I have been leveraging my printing services in exchange for floor space in stores and what not. 

I don't really regret anything I did other than take on a business partner. So far my business partner has just held me back if anything. For me, I couldn't afford to do it by myself and I didn't have a lot of free time, so I figured when I was busy my partner could do the printing and vice a versa. That didn't go according to plan. My partner never learned the design programs like I did, never did any research and pretty much has just followed behind me. So if it is about money or time for you.....find a way to do it on your own, don't go in on it with a partner. Now I am stuck with someone who is lazy and doesn't have the same drive I do....so I am still trying to figure that piece of the business out. 

Yea, I agree...don't do heat transfers. I almost went that route but the quality sucks compared to silk screening. Don't sacrafice the quality to get your product out there. Hope that helps


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## Solmu

Ayres Clothing said:


> I don't really regret anything I did other than take on a business partner. [...] Now I am stuck with someone who is lazy and doesn't have the same drive I do....so I am still trying to figure that piece of the business out.


If you're confident the business is going to take off, you might want to try and buy him out. There's no point in doing that now if you might still fail (since you might as well split that loss between you), but if you're going to make it, it sounds like you and your business partner are not compatible (that just happens sometimes - even if you're both friends and both good at what you do, it doesn't mean you'll work well together).

It's better to keep these kinds of things formal though - if you informally buy him out for example, make it rich, and he decides he wants a piece of it... Contracts are the way to go in all things business related; they're there to protect you both.


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## sneeky

i think that the biggest problem i have come across is time, holding down a full time job, renovating a house, trying to keep some interest going in the business, and popping over to germany to watch england in the world cup, oh, and find time to see the wife. i have come to realise that there are only so many hours in a day, so if it's a part time hobby, then take it steady, success will come from patience. trying to do it all at the same time will cause only 1 thing....stress, and none of us got into this to be stressed, just to have fun and make a little extra money for beer tokens!!!!!


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## TeeShirtSamurai

Wow, how have I missed this thread. This is going to be a long post...

In February I had an idea for a t-shirt which got me curious into how I could go about selling that t-shirt to people. I quickly found these forums. It's now almost July and my site will be going live within a week. I don't have all the answers but I have made a few observations that I think can help you.

The best piece of advice I can offer you is this: Don't rush things and admit to yourself that you don't always know everything.

The biggest mistake I see on the forums is people who have rushed into this thinking, as badalou said, that just because you get a website you're going to be rolling in money and be able to quit your job. People don't do their research, they don't do the work. They kill their chances for success immediately. These people ask very basic questions showing they haven't even tried to figure it out for themselves. A simple search or browsing the appropriate forum for a few minutes would net them the information they seek. How is your small, startup going to succeed if you won't even go to the trouble of searching a forum? It blows my mind.

The veterans on here have done their work, they've paid their dues. People want to shortcut the process and when you do that you've sealed your fate.



tiffhlove said:


> Risks to one may not be risks to another and I definatley disagree with you when you say I would not sell out of all of my inventory.


Logic is very important in business as is emotion, the key is to determine which to use and when. The statement above is emotional, not logical. When making business decisions that involve money, your starting capital, it's important to be as logical as possible. To simply say that you will sell all of your inventory is naive and indicates that a.) you haven't done your research and b.) you think you know better than those who are telling you otherwise. 

There's a thin line between being positive and naive.



tiffhlove said:


> I completely agree that I could save money as well as even make more money if I handled the tees myself whether it is heat press or screen printing. I am sure the learning curve is not that hard but here is the deal, I am starting this venture and will have to wear all hats as it is, I definately will not have time between my full-time job and trying to start up this t-shirt biz to do any of that myself.


Wrong. What you are really saying is that you won't make time. You would rather rush into this and doom yourself to failure. 

What's the rush? Why not slow down, evaluate your options, decide what is best and go from there? The only possible reason for you to rush into this is that you are going to be in a position soon where you will depend upon the revenue from your t-shirt business to live and if that is the case you REALLY need to make sure you are doing things properly.

The vast majority of people here have been in your position, some with less time than you! I believe neato is working full-time, is married and has two small children but he was able to do everything you claim to not have time for.



tiffhlove said:


> My only problem that I have with that is time. I will not have time to market and to screen print( at least I haven't figured and angle for me to be able to do that yet) so I figure I will have to bite my lip and hopefully be smart about the number of designs I order as well as get them sold.


What you are saying here is that you are going to gamble because you don't want to make the time to allow yourself to be successful. Numerous people have already told you that it's no good to have screenprinted inventory. It seems like you've already made up your mind though.



tiffhlove said:


> I am basically gambling on my creativity and the likes of my market and I hope I come out on top.


Gambling and hope are a disastrous combination. These words belong in sentences with the words, "lottery" and "casino," nowhere near the word "business."



tiffhlove said:


> If I find that my designs are not selling and I am waisting money I will definately change my angle and look into how to make time to learn how to screen print, it's just right now I don't see how I could fit that in and unfortunately I know I am losing money not doing the t-shirts myself but it feels as if I have no other options at this point and with the heat transfers; I like screen printing because of the quality which is one of the things I would like to stand-out about my tees.


Why start off wasting money on designs you are unsure of? You show your lack of research by dissing heat transfers. There are a lot of people here that are doing quite well using transfers.

Now that may have seemed harsh but keep in mind I don't know you so the intent was not malicious or meant to hurt your feelings. I'm tired of seeing people on the forum not allowing themselves to succeed and sabotaging their own efforts. If I didn't care then I wouldn't have bothered to post.

Tiffany, you need to write down what you hope to accomplish from this venture and then figure out the most intelligent, economical and practical way of getting to where you want to be. You have tremendous resources and people with ridiculous amounts of experience at your fingertips. 

I really do wish you the best and everyone here is more than willing to help you.

*Don't rush things and admit to yourself that you don't always know everything.

*


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## Rodney

I don't think it's such a bad idea to start out with screen printed designs. 

Using heat pressed transfers (no matter how great the quality), is just not an option for everyone. Not everyone wants to do it themselves or print garments themselves on demand. 

You can succeed having quality designs screen printed and having inventory. 

It sounds like Tiffany knows about minimizing her risk by acknowledging that she will have to be smart about the number of designs to get printed on the outset.

It's good to have a business plan and get your ducks in a row, but there's also something to be said for drive and determination.

I wouldn't be here now if I believed what others told me about my designs (including my wife). Sometimes...just sometimes, you have to believe in yourself and what you believe to be true and disregard what others may be telling you.

Tiffany's here, asking questions, doing research, getting feedback, weighing options and she seems to have the drive and passion for what she's doing. Sounds like she's headed in the right direction to me


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## tiffhlove

THANKS RODNEY . I could not have said it better myself. This is to everyone that has replied to this post, I am in no way thinking that I know everything, if that were the case I certainly would not post threads for knowledge. I don't know everything which is why I seek the advice of others on this board and based on feedback I go from there. I have taken a lot of valuable lessons from this board that I am using in my research. Just because I don't do things in the order that TeeShirt Samurai sees fits does not mean I don't understand how business works. One thing a good business owner does is listens and if you listened to my last post I made it perfectly clear that I do not have the time right now to handle learning how to screen print due to me wearing the all the hats right now but I did say that may be an option I will have to consider if I see that it is not going well. Just because my fellow man has a family and kids and a job and can do it doesn't mean that I can, you don't even know my situation. It is really clear to me that you are definately trying to offer sound advice that you believe will help but there is also a way to do it and it is not shoving your beliefs down my throat and saying I will not succeed otherwise. I am a very saavy person and I am crystal clear on the fact that you have to do your research, that is just plain common sense. I don't want to set myself up for failure so why would I not do my research? Why do you think I read and post threads here as this relates to my business? C'mon some things you can see for yourself. Don't put everyone in the same category, just because some people are on here and don't want do research doesn't mean the next person is the same way. Again, it is wise to be a good listener not just a talker. I firmly believe in myself and my creativity and my products so I will DEFINATELY gamble on myself because if I don't then who will. Life is what you make it and if at first you don't succeed you simply try again.  Thanks for all of the replies and I hope this isn't taken personal just had to make myself clear.


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## Comin'OutSwingin

I will have to agree. Every situation is different. I can definitely see how one would not have the time to learn to screen print quality designs. And how transfers would not be the proper fit for what they are doing.

Tiff, you definitely made your point. But I will give you some advice that a fellow forum member (monkeylantern!) gave to me long ago.

I think his words were something like "please learn to love the paragraph". It was really hard to read as one big paragraph.


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## Solmu

TeeShirtSamurai said:


> People don't do their research, they don't do the work. They kill their chances for success immediately. These people ask very basic questions showing they haven't even tried to figure it out for themselves. A simple search or browsing the appropriate forum for a few minutes would net them the information they seek. How is your small, startup going to succeed if you won't even go to the trouble of searching a forum? It blows my mind.
> 
> The veterans on here have done their work, they've paid their dues. People want to shortcut the process and when you do that you've sealed your fate.


I couldn't agree with you more on these points (with the exception of the veterans point - some people do just get lucky). It's frustrating, and we see it here pretty much every single day.



TeeShirtSamurai said:


> I believe neato is working full-time, is married and has two small children but he was able to do everything you claim to not have time for.


Rodney himself is a great example of this. He doesn't like his personal/business life being discussed on the forum so I won't mention specifics; suffice to say that he probably has as many personal commitments as any of us, and a *lot* more business commitments, and yet here he is.

...but that also doesn't mean a damn thing to anyone else's situation. It's like telling a depressive "everyone else is happy, so why aren't you?" - the differences in people's lives run a lot deeper than what is superficially visible. Two people each with one full time job, two children, one mortgage, etc. are not necessarily equal.



TeeShirtSamurai said:


> Numerous people have already told you that it's no good to have screenprinted inventory.


And numerous people are wrong about numerous things on numerous occasions.

On this point I totally disagree with you - while each person does need to decide whether or not holding inventory can work for them, it's far from "no good".

Threadless was built on the back of screenprinted inventory, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

Holding inventory is something that costs a business money - it's also what most businesses do anyway because that is outweighed by the benefits (like getting stock cheaper because it's manufactured in bulk, and getting high quality stock because sometimes bulk manufacture is the best way to do that too).


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## Solmu

Solmu said:


> I couldn't agree with you more on these points


Just to clarify; I meant I agree with this in the general sense (and I think TeeShirtSamurai was making a general point here), not in Tiffany's case.

You're right that some of those responses were based on emotion where they could have benefited from a dose of logic, but not to the point of being bad decisions.


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## TeeShirtSamurai

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.


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## Rodney

> We're just going to have to agree to disagree.


Sounds like a good plan there


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## Solmu

TeeShirtSamurai said:


> We're just going to have to agree to disagree.


Fair enough. There are a lot of approaches to business so we can't all agree on everything.


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## monkeylantern

There are many models. The point is, don't launch into one until you know *exactly* how you're going to function. Business plan, business plan, business plan. I want to see cashflow graphs people! I want to see 50 pages of data-mined research! I want to see a blow-by-blow marketing strategy! I*don't* want to see the word "gamble". I *don't* want to see airy "mission statements". I *don't* want to see you're company targets such as "sell 200 shirts a month"; I want to see *how* you're going to do that.

Until you have a robust business plan, don't spend a penny (and I don't mean don't urinate....you'd burst), apart from on viable research (such as datamining specialist systems etc).

Keeping screenprinted inventory is perfectly viable, and requires a lower start up than a proper heat-press business. *But*, and this is a big but, it is a model that *requires* a solidly research business plan. You are freezing money in stock. When you do that, you *must* be able to justify exactly what you'll print. This isn't a Cafepress store...you cant just throw anything up because there's no cost. You need to do proper solid, research if you use this model, all spelled out in a business plan.

Pretend you're a bank manager. Don't let yourself spend anything until your plan would persuade a bank to lend you money (even if you're not borrowing).

I'm also occasionally baffled by basic questions. I wish we had a sign on the door saying "Yes, this place is lovely. Yes, it is filled with people who will answer your questions. But don't register for one week. In that time read every thread on these boards. Then people will respect you from the get go".

And this isn't an attack on anyone in this thread....everyone here is roses and violets


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## kentphoto

And if you spend half the time that you spend on this forum, concentrating on your business, you'll get a lot done.


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## Rodney

> t, it is a model that *requires* a solidly research business plan.


Not always required  But I agree that is probably the best way to go to give yourself the best chance for success.


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## hongkongdmz

It looks like starting your own t-shirt business is hard work. Does having a unique series of designs help? And i'd like to ask how many designs does everyone think are necessary before you plan on printing t-shirts. 2/3/4/5 or even 10? I'm merely learning but it'll be a few months before I have a website up and running. Already got a supplier sorted out in China though and a graphic designer has done some designs for me... Good luck to anyone though who wants to start their own business, life should be fun.


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## Rodney

> t looks like starting your own t-shirt business is hard work.


Yes, starting any business and making it successful is hard work.



> Does having a unique series of designs help?


A little, but not much. Almost everybody has a series of unique designs. You have to be able to effectively market and promote those designs. The best designs in the world will sit on the shelf if nobody sees them.



> And i'd like to ask how many designs does everyone think are necessary before you plan on printing t-shirts. 2/3/4/5 or even 10?


Do a quick forum search for keywords like: starting, designs, etc and you'll find a few topics about this subject. 

In order to keep this topic from drifting too far off the original subject, you can open a new topic with your question if you haven't found it in a search.


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## monkeylantern

Rodney said:


> Not always required  But I agree that is probably the best way to go to give yourself the best chance for success.


Not always needed, no. Some superb businesses have sprung up without them. But you're a lot more likely to fail without one.

If you're starting from scratch, I don't see any point *not* having one.


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## Solmu

monkeylantern said:


> If you're starting from scratch, I don't see any point *not* having one.


'Cos it's a lot of boring writing? 

I actually agree with you, but I do think people are potentially put off by how dull it is. Of course those are the small details you need to pay attention to in order to make a living. A lot of business is dull - people get in for different reasons (making shirts, designing lines, counting money), but rarely for the accounting.

Those "small" details of profit & loss, cashflow, etc. are why most new businesses don't survive more than a few years.


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## monkeylantern

On-line, the crux of a business plan is a marketing plan. You're going to need to work this out anyway. So why not get it all down on paper?


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## Solmu

monkeylantern said:


> You're going to need to work this out anyway. So why not get it all down on paper?


I think that's the best way of looking at it.

If you don't write it all down you run the risk of forgetting a good idea you had, or forgetting to follow a step. You also can't show anyone (for procurement of funds, or simple advice).

With it written down you can break it into steps and complete each segment.

It's more efficient and helps motivate you since you have a plan to follow, rather than just doing things as it occurs to you.

More follow through.

And it starts good habbits early (doing paperwork, and writing plans for funding managers - expansion means loans or investors, means convincing business plans).


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## hongkongdmz

Thanks for the advice, i'm actually looking forward to all the boring details to work on. But at least I can know that my hard work can make it a success in time. So for an online business the marketing plan is the essential item?


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## Solmu

hongkongdmz said:


> Thanks for the advice, i'm actually looking forward to all the boring details to work on.


Excellent. I actually enjoy some of it myself too.



hongkongdmz said:


> But at least I can know that my hard work can make it a success in time.


Definitely can be done.



hongkongdmz said:


> So for an online business the marketing plan is the essential item?


Marketing is important for any business, since if no-one knows you're there they can't give you money. It's even more important online though. If a retail business has a good location, there's at least some chance of surviving on foot traffic and word of mouth. With an online business, if people don't know you're there you're completely invisible.

If you don't have the usual cashflow problems any business undergoes worked out they could kill the business before it even starts, so I don't know that it's the number one thing. I certainly agree with monkeylantern though that it's extremely important - a business won't succeed if it neglects marketing, and it's better to plan ahead than to just keep throwing advertising at a site until you run out of money and/or reach an objective.

If you don't know in advance how you're going to reach your target audience, you don't know in advance how you are going to succeed. You could go ahead anyway, but that means you'd be gambling on working it out as you go. If you have a marketing plan in advance, you can be more confident about investing your money (you may still lose it all, but you increase your odds).


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## hongkongdmz

Would you ever give out t-shirts for free? Say on a campus to some students with some accessories etc. If you got your name known then people might want to check out the website. Guess that falls under a marketing strategy though.


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## Solmu

hongkongdmz said:


> Would you ever give out t-shirts for free?


To the right people, definitely.



hongkongdmz said:


> Say on a campus to some students with some accessories etc. If you got your name known then people might want to check out the website.


College students... not so much  If I could attract enough attention doing it, sure... but personally I wouldn't be that confident of a good return. Others may disagree with me though. In principle though, free t-shirts is potentially a good strategy.

I'd be more likely to hand out discount fliers at colleges - rather than give away a couple of freebies, sell a large quantity at a discounted price. Make some money in the short term, and hopefully pick up some repeat customers at the full price further down the track.


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## hongkongdmz

So give out a discount offer and your URL on the leaflet? I could ask my friends in Melbourne to try that with 20-30 t-shirts and leaflets.


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## Solmu

hongkongdmz said:


> So give out a discount offer and your URL on the leaflet?


That's one of the first things I'd try - but there are lots of approaches, and that's just one of them. There are a lot of good ideas in the marketing section of the forums.


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## hongkongdmz

So I could just do a search for 'marketing.' Thanks for the tips


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## lawaughn

I agree with writing an starter business/marketing plan but from personal experience plans seem to evolve into something completely different from whats written do to new opportunites and learning new things.

Sometimes you end up taking the road less traveled. You end up taking a detour that you never new existed. 

I don't have a concrete plan I have an idea diary. It lists my ideas to more forward and websites and people to help me go that route if I choose to make those moves later on.


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## Solmu

lawaughn said:


> I agree with writing an starter business/marketing plan but from personal experience plans seems to evolve into something completely different from whats written do to new opportunites and learning new things.
> 
> Sometimes you end up taken the road less traveled. You end up taken a detour that you never new existed.


Absolutely - if circumstances change then the plan needs to change too. If your business is heading in a new direction you should re-evaluate, but it wouldn't hurt to draw up a new plan then either  It would help to confirm that you're changing tack, not just getting distracted with something that just seems like a good idea at the time (both can happen to a business - some things are distractions and others are opportunities, writing it out can sometimes help you discern which is which).

But yes, sticking to the old plan no matter what happens isn't the way to go.


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## benthiam

Instead of buying printed tees, buy blank tees and store them at home. Send your design to the silkscreen man and ask for only the block. Bring the block back home and together with some dye and squeegee. Produce whatever the quantity is.. This way.. there will be no leftover stock.


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## benthiam

Yah, by the way, silkscreening tutorials can be easily found online. Many include step by step instructions with photos. 

Good luck!!


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## RGo

I like you point of view!


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## SPIT

To sell shirts try going to student unions at any college campus. Post info. Also, outside concerts and area events. You can look into attending rap underground rap concerts, battles, and other local events to sell. Ask club owben to let you set up a booth and go to town. For some reason barber shops are able to sell more than haircuts. Check it out!


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## lgiglio1

What kind of sporting event did you do? Outside, inside? This is what I am planning on targeting, tournaments? Did you just buy stock transfer for the particular sport and make them up there and sell them? did you do anything specific for the event (name of event, teams, etc. on shirt)? Thanks so much!


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