# Copyright? Who owns the design if i hire a company to make the tees?



## quickbeam (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi, I'm wondering if i bring my design to a screen printing business and ask them to make a bunch of t-shirts for me, can they copyright the design even though it's was all my artistic idea but they did the actual creation of the t-shirt?

i've read up on the copyright laws and i'm pretty sure that this would be a case of me "Hiring" this company. they would essentially be my employee for the duration of this project. not sure if i have to get anything in writing though. peace


----------



## Fractured01 (Feb 28, 2008)

If you take a design custom design to a screen printer you should have them sign a copyright agreement and/or a non-disclosure agreement. 

A screen printer should never try to do this...if they did they would not stay in business long. I am sure no screen printer is that dumb.


----------



## quickbeam (Jun 22, 2009)

from: Intellectual Property: Using Confidentiality Agreements - Yahoo! Small Business

"Using Confidentiality Agreements or Non-Disclosure Agreements (a.k.a. "NDA"s) are a step you can take to provide some level of protection and comfort. But frankly, NDAs are hard to enforce. Litigation is expensive and there are so many grey areas involved in making a case. The best approach to disclosing an idea is to get a signed NDA from the party in combination with the following measures..."




"always use an agreement drafted by a skilled intellectual property attorney."


seems to me that with all the lawyers fees, and the weakness of the NDA itself, i could just buy my own screen printing supplies and do it all myself


----------



## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

even the copyright issues are hard/expensive to defend...if someone violates your copyright...hope you have bigger pockets than they do.....cuz...that is what it will take to win or so I THINK


----------



## intercontex (Apr 6, 2009)

Do your best to find and work with a reputable company that knows how to design for apparel/t-shirts specifically. Whomever you contract should at least know how to put a proper tech pack together and prepare files for a screen printer. 

An NDA helps, but this is the apparel industry... In my company's case, we always ensure our clients they own the rights to the designs we develop for them. It is a standard clause in all of our proposals and terms & conditions. We also deliver all original and hi-res files to our clients when contracted to do design work.

Good luck with your search!


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

If you bring your design to the printer it is yours, printing it for you does not make it theirs.

If you bring you design _idea_ to the printer and they design it for you, that's a different matter. Without a contract that situation can get complicated (it should be simple: legally the rights are yours, but printers often dispute that), but with a contract to sign over the rights it's pretty simple.


----------



## quickbeam (Jun 22, 2009)

Solmu said:


> If you bring your design to the printer it is yours, printing it for you does not make it theirs.


thanks for the help everyone, i think that covers it


----------



## theprintshop (Oct 8, 2008)

When you create a design you automatically have a legal copyright (CR) to it. In UK and EU lay an employee who make the design during his employment the CR belongs to the company. If you source a work to be made and you are paying for the work and time of the designer then that CR legally belongs to you. Best to get that in writing hence you can assign ownership of the CR back to you.


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

That is what I thought


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

I have a logo that i'm thinking of getting printed that I also want to have made in jewellery.
Whats do you think would best best for me, to get it registered as a trademark or copyrighted as a symbol ?


----------



## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

From what I have found through research and discussions with a cousin who is an intellectual property attorney, copyright is for designs, music, literature, and other works of art, trademark or servicemark is for logo or brand identification marks or slogans, and patents are for inventions. Copyrights are typically the least expensive to register, trademarks next, and patents are much more expensive to register.


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

My idea was to go with the copyright, being the cheapest option as I havent even decided on how many T-shirts to get made up yet, then if it looks like it may work out then get it registered as a trademark?
I just feel it would be a good idea to have some kind of protection? I'm not even registered as a company yet so feel I have to keep everything close to my chest


----------



## zeusprinting (Jun 21, 2009)

Solmu said:


> If you bring you design _idea_ to the printer and they design it for you, that's a different matter.


Our issue is that if we create a killer design from a client idea for a shirt. I am happy to have them use that on anything we can print/create for them.

But, what happens is customers the source files for use on business cards, banners, websites, etc, etc, etc. My inclination is to say that they didn't pay me to develop a brand for them. They paid for a t-shirt design.

How do you deal with this issue?


----------



## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

zeusprinting said:


> Our issue is that if we create a killer design from a client idea for a shirt. I am happy to have them use that on anything we can print/create for them.
> 
> But, what happens is customers the source files for use on business cards, banners, websites, etc, etc, etc. My inclination is to say that they didn't pay me to develop a brand for them. They paid for a t-shirt design.
> 
> How do you deal with this issue?


In that case, I would let them know up front that the design rate to create a t-shirt design is for use on apparel only, provided by your shop. If they want full rights for other purposes, give them a price for full rights. We have design rates for our apparel design, then we have identity design packages for logos and trademark type designs. If someone wants to have a t-shirt design printed on something that we do not offer, and don't use business associates for, we generally don't have a problem with them having things printed up, especially if it is for a 1 time event or a job that won't be repeat business. We do retain all apparel printing rights for our custom designs, unless we agree on a price for full rights. When I first started, I had several customers that ordered a small order from me, requested the art file for flyers and such, then took it to a competitor that would knock a few bucks off of the re-order. I don't send master files out so easy anymore unless there is a written understanding for what it is being used for, or full rights are bought for the artwork.


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

So what if I designed a logo and i'm using it as my trademark. for example, it a letter be thats turned on its side (rotated). I take this to someone and ask them to work on it, maybe change the colour and say add a shadow.

Its my trademark but they are working on it. Do they own the copyright to that then?

If so how much would you expect to pay to buy that right?


----------



## zeusprinting (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks Unik Ink. That's what I had in mind, just needed someone to give me permission, I guess.

HUNTY: Get a simple contractor agreement in place. The magic words, in the US, are "work for hire" (just Google it). If anyone does work for you in that situation, you automatically own everything. No questions.


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

Not sure if its the same for the UK.
How does it work then. I have to get some legal paper work to say WFH and get them to sign it before giving them the work? That correct?


----------



## zeusprinting (Jun 21, 2009)

HUNTY said:


> How does it work then. I have to get some legal paper work to say WFH and get them to sign it before giving them the work? That correct?


Basically, yes.

You can find some information about UK copyright law at Copyright law of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

There are specifics in there about the employer owning anything that an employee creates. But, they don't go on to define what constitutes an employer/employee relationship. Maybe you can find some more specific details on that.

In the US. A very simple contract that states all work performed by the contractor/vendor is work for hire, and all copyrights are immediately owned by the me.


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

How do you register a copyright?
I find loads of information saying the original creator is the owner of the copyright. Does that mean as long as you have proof that you created it and back dated evidence, that the copyright belongs to you? I'm trying to find somewhere in the UK to register a Copyright but not having any luck.


----------



## HUNTY (Sep 3, 2009)

There is *no official copyright register* because copyright is automatic. There are certain steps you can take to protect your rights, but you do not have to register anywhere.
There are, however, a number of companies that offer unofficial copyright registers. You should think very carefully whether this is a useful service for you before choosing this route. Some of the things to think about are:
*How much* does it cost and is it a one-off or regular payment? 
Are you paying just for a *registration*, or does the cost cover more than this, for example help with a legal action should your copyright be infringed? 
Is the registration likely to be better than the evidence you can create for yourself by sending a copy of the work to yourself by *Special Delivery post* and not opening the envelope upon its return? 
Are you still likely to have a problem proving that you had the copyright material at a certain time which is all that registration can help to prove?
Note that neither registration nor sending a copy of the work to yourself show that you were the *creator of the work*. Keeping copies of all your drafts and any other material that shows your connection with the particular copyright material as you develop it could, however, be useful evidence if you ever have to prove that you are the author.


----------



## roses5682 (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm working on my companies NDA is there anything specific i should include? Basically were create designs then hire companies to put them on shirts, and we dont want the manufactures to steal our ideas.


----------



## jamper (Oct 4, 2009)

quickbeam said:


> Hi, I'm wondering if i bring my design to a screen printing business and ask them to make a bunch of t-shirts for me, can they copyright the design even though it's was all my artistic idea but they did the actual creation of the t-shirt?
> 
> i've read up on the copyright laws and i'm pretty sure that this would be a case of me "Hiring" this company. they would essentially be my employee for the duration of this project. not sure if i have to get anything in writing though. peace


 ,,,,, hello far too many people worry too much about this ,,,,,,,,,would these designs really be so amazingly fantastic ,,,,,that someone would see money b4 theyre eyes enuf to want to take your designs.,,,,,not really in 99% of cases id have thot,,,,,,,


----------



## quickbeam (Jun 22, 2009)

zeusprinting said:


> HUNTY: Get a simple contractor agreement in place. The magic words, in the US, are "work for hire" (just Google it). If anyone does work for you in that situation, you automatically own everything. No questions.


should this be done by a lawyer, or what?


----------

