# SubmitWolf



## pocketjacks (Jul 26, 2005)

Anyone have any experience with this? I bought it last year for a website and just found it again. Wondering if anyone has any experience on the amount of traffic it can generate. Seems like it goes to a lot of FFA's and no name search engines.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I don't have any experience with submitwolf in particular, but I've tried a few "website promotion" programs over the years.

I've found that none of them could do what you could do in a half hour.

FFA pages and small search engines are pretty much worthless.

Stick to the major indexes (hand submit once until you are linked to from other sites): Yahoo, Google, MSN, DMOZ, and small niche directories (like t-shirt related). That's where QUALITY traffic will come from.

You don't want just volume...you want quality, targeted visitors.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Yeah, it seems that paying for any kind of SEO is in general not a very good idea.


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## bjmason32 (Jul 1, 2005)

Rodney is absolutely right. There is no point to submitting your site to 1000 search engines when 4 of them get 96% of search traffic. Therefore, You should hand submit to the majors and then work on increasing the scope of your website with keyword rich content. I recommend syndicating articles to websites such as ezinearticles.com - this will bring direct traffic, but more importantly...it will help you start to build one way, content relevant links. The more backlinks you have out there, the more likely you are to be indexed quickly by yahoo/google/msn etc. SEO requires tremendous patience as you can not buy your way to organic traffic with some "Amazing Tool" advertised by a so-called SEM/SEO expert. 

Furthermore, do not try any "black hat" seo shortcuts. Spamming and participating in Link Farms will only get you banned. 

Focus on the following:

Industry Related Directories such as: Apparel Search, T-Shirt Countdown (Rodney's site), Apparel News, T-shirt links.

Major Directories: Yahoo, DMOZ

One way backlinks - Syndicated Articles that point back to your website (ignore reciprocal linking as its value is diminishing and it can be time consuming). www.goarticles.com is another good site for this. 

Start a T-shirt related Blog for easy content creation.

Build an email list out of your prospective customers/ current traffic.

Meta Tag Optimization - just make sure your title tags / description tags list the keywords your targeting.

PR - Commit to writing a press release each month and distribute it through www.PRweb.com - this will certainly increase your website's backlinks. 

Good Luck


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

bjmason32 said:


> Start a T-shirt related Blog for easy content creation.


No, please don't.

I know of ten general t-shirt blogs (i.e. not individual business blogs). Only three of them are actually worth reading, and that's pushing it. We do not need another one.

One of them, which was made only to raise traffic and not to service its readers, is particularly awful. It was created only to assist in SEO, and it's a crime against the internet.


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## bjmason32 (Jul 1, 2005)

Solmu, you're missing the point. It’s not our job to protect the sanctity of the internet. If that's you're goal, go be an editor for DMOZ. For most of us, this is business, not journalism, not entertainment.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

bjmason32 said:


> Solmu, you're missing the point.


No I'm not.

1) Business and ethics shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
2) It's not even a particualrly good idea. You're trading the chance of some slight gains from robots, for a negative image with humans who see your site. Better to go after the humans, not the robots.



bjmason32 said:


> For most of us, this is business, not journalism, not entertainment.


Sorry, I forgot I was doing this for the applause of the crowd and the occasional thrown peanut.


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## sarafina (Jul 27, 2005)

Telling somebody to _not_ create a blog because you've read 10 that we're 'bad' (out of millions, i'm sure) is as logical as telling somebody not to eat apples because you've tasted a few that were bad.

Not very logical, if you ask me.



Solmu said:


> It's not even a particualrly good idea. You're trading the chance of some slight gains from robots, for a negative image with humans who see your site. Better to go after the humans, not the robots.


Business is about taking risks. You forgot to mention the positive's that can be attained if blogging is done correctly (besides SEO optimization). It's silly to suggest not to do something because you *may* fail. 

Perhaps you should comment on specifics of what made those blogs bad and what people should do to improve. I think that would be more productive than telling people to not blog altogether.


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## Foxy (Nov 13, 2005)

Hi, I say DIY. 
As mentioned, submit to G-Y-MSN etc... 
Also, hook up with [removed self promotional URL] , they will exchange links etc... no problem.
They are the imprintables industry leader now, lousy PR, but that means nothing our days cause a nifty SEO can force HI PR anyway.

Press release, sitemaps etc... also helps getting you ranked.

< Off topic >

HOW DO YOU START A NEW THREAD HERE - WHERE IS THE BUTTON ???

HELP ?????????

edit: removed self promotional URL as per forum rules:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/showthread.php?t=1173


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

sarafina said:


> Telling somebody to _not_ create a blog because you've read 10 that we're 'bad' (out of millions, i'm sure) is as logical as telling somebody not to eat apples because you've tasted a few that were bad.


There are not millions of aggregate t-shirt blogs. I seriously doubt there are even twenty (and if there are even that many, they're doing a really really bad job of propogating themselves).

I didn't say all 10 were bad, I said 7 were (this allows all ten to think they're part of the good three ).

I didn't make the comment based on some silly deductive logic. 70% of t-shirt blogs are bad, therefore any t-shirt blog is 70% likely to be bad? Err... no. I'm not stupid. Your apple simile is about as logical as something that isn't very logical at all. So *there*!

The only good blogs I've seen (and I would submit the only good blogs at all) are written by people who felt a drive to write. If you need to be pushed in that direction and view it as a cynical business exercise, you will fail. *That* is why I suggested it was a bad idea. Anyone who needs to be told to write a blog, shouldn't write a blog.



sarafina said:


> Business is about taking risks. You forgot to mention the positive's that can be attained if blogging is done correctly (besides SEO optimization). It's silly to suggest not to do something because you *may* fail.


I didn't forget to do anything. I didn't mention the positives, because if you are doing it solely as a revenue raiser there are none as far as I'm concerned. Nor is it my job to point out the silver lining in every cloud.

Business may well be about taking (calculated) risks, but blogs are not about business - they're about personal expression.

This is not about risk and failure. I'm not suggesting people don't blog because they might fail. I'm suggesting they don't do it because when they fail they might make other human victims watch them fail. It's the readers I'm worried about (and specifically what little signal is out there getting even more lost in the all too abundant noise), not the hapless potential blogger.

Blogging is no different to any other writing. If you think "what an a**hole, that doesn't apply to me" - it probably doesn't. Writing is for those with a drive to write. Shrug off the shackles of the critic and be free.

Blogs have become the latest trend with certain herd-following marketers - that doesn't mean they are a good idea. They were meant for personal expression, and wrestling that into a commercial enterprise is a difficult and unfulfilling process. It can work if you have people willing to follow you there (hence the success of blogs like Cool Hunting), but the motivation behind those successes isn't self-promotion - it's the celebration of consumerism.



sarafina said:


> Perhaps you should comment on specifics of what made those blogs bad and what people should do to improve. I think that would be more productive than telling people to not blog altogether.


It's not my job to tell people how to polish a turd.

If people insist on running a purely commercial blog, I'd suggest they steer clear of the t-shirt blog and instead opt for something interesting about their own business.

Most t-shirt blogs are written by transparent self-serving people pretending to promote other sites whilst really trying to achieve their own ends (there are, obviously, notable exceptions). They're also not updated even close to often enough. Readers aren't stupid - we see through it, and it's annoying.

Sometimes writing openly and honestly about your business can be interesting, but general blogs are a saturated market. A good example of an open blog would be the blog of Wavelength Clothing. The writer talks about starting a business, some of his practical concerns, how the business has affected his life and vice versa. It's interesting because there's actually a point, and because it's not about making sales. It's not about business so much as blogging a specific aspect of his life that happens to be commercial.

I wouldn't dissuade someone from writing a personal blog, so much as pretending to be something you're not (a portal site for example).

It's unlikely anyone could offer the readers anything new in the general t-shirt blog field. Obviously if someone is confident they can they should try, but that's about being driven by the kind of passion no amount of nay-sayers will dissuade you from.


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## sarafina (Jul 27, 2005)

Solmu said:


> It's not my job to tell people how to polish a turd.


Is that what you call providing constructive criticism? If so, then yes, I can definitely agree that isn't your mandate.

If you criticize something but don't provide reasonable evidence to substantiate your claims, everything you write comes of as a personal rant rather than helpful discussion. That's exactly what you did. I'm beginning to believe that was your intent though. Either way, you lack brevity and I lack time so that's the only thing I'll address.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

sarafina said:


> Is that what you call providing constructive criticism? If so, then yes, I can definitely agree that isn't your mandate.


I was talking about extreme cases. "Constructive criticism" in the sense that the PC movement means it isn't always worthwhile (or possible). But the fact is all criticism is constructive if it's accurate. Criticism is the enemy of ignorance, and we can't have progress without honesty.



sarafina said:


> If you criticize something but don't provide reasonable evidence to substantiate your claims, everything you write comes of as a personal rant rather than helpful discussion.


You get what you pay for.

People can either take the criticism on board and provide their own solutions, or not as they see fit. I'm not sure why I should be expected to hand someone a fully completed solution on a silver platter.

Criticism is helpful for discussion - more often than not people just overlook what they're doing wrong. They're not powerless to fix it once they stop and think about it. It's more empowering to come up with your own solutions anyway.



sarafina said:


> Either way, you lack brevity and I lack time so that's the only thing I'll address.


First I'm criticised for being too brief, then for being too long winded? Make up your damn mind.

I didn't go into detail initially because I didn't feel like it, and because it's a waste of my time. I also didn't think it was necessary. It was you specifically who criticised me for that, and only because of you that I wrote that post.

Evidently I wasted my time even more than I thought.

Are you just trolling? Because if so, congratulations on doing a damn fine job of it.


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## Foxy (Nov 13, 2005)

hi, don't want to get in the middle of this, but i'm leaning towards Solmu vbmenu_register("postmenu_6377", true); 

" I'm not sure why I should be expected to hand someone a fully completed solution on a silver platter. "


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## sarafina (Jul 27, 2005)

Foxy said:


> hi, don't want to get in the middle of this, but i'm leaning towards Solmu vbmenu_register("postmenu_6377", true);
> 
> " I'm not sure why I should be expected to hand someone a fully completed solution on a silver platter. "


That sounds like a trite excuse people produce when they make blanket statements with little or no evidence to back it up.

"The sky is red"

"Prove it."

"Is it my job to provide you with all the answers in life?"

LOL. Seriously, i'm done.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

No, sarafina, not yet! It was just getting good.


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## Foxy (Nov 13, 2005)

sarafina,

would you provide contact information to any jo-blow and risk your reputation in the industry ( make you look bad ) just because this joe-blow is bagging for it ?

of couse, if this joe-blow is someone that you are working with on a project and has proven that they are professional enough to handle " a good contact ". than all is fine.

As for the sky stuff, if this joe-blow is too lazy to get on the horn and follow up on a hint, not a contact ( for ex: 500 manufactures in LA, you may find your answers there ), the sky is what it is and jo-blow does want silver platern feed but realistacle it's more like Baby-Bottle Feed. 

Any thoughts on that ?


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Foxy said:


> sarafina,
> 
> would you provide contact information to any jo-blow and risk your reputation in the industry ( make you look bad ) just because this joe-blow is bagging for it ?
> 
> ...


You lost me at "Would you provide....." until about "....Any thoughts on that?".


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

I just visited your website and was even more lost. What on earth is going on there?


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## Foxy (Nov 13, 2005)

hi monkeylantern

good morning,
well it's part of a research/experiment involving many factors.

just like joining this forum, any other t-shirt related forums, and anything to do with t-shirts on and off line, SEO etc.

but that's all i can tell you since it may effect the reseach/experiment.

cheers
friend.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

How mysterious. A new t-shirt range for the under-cover spy?


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Foxy,
You are a very interesting individual. Someone should do a research/experiment on *you*.


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## bjmason32 (Jul 1, 2005)

Solmu said:


> Business may well be about taking (calculated) risks, but blogs are not about business - they're about personal expression.


 
I might be mistaken, but I believe this category we're all writing in is "T-Shirt Marketing". If perchance, you happen to have some useful advice for "Pocket Jacks" regarding Submit Wolf or any other SEO tools and or strategies; we would all LOVE to hear it. Otherwise......kindly get back to saving the world as your talents are clearly wasted on the EVILS of self serving, business promotion.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

bjmason32 said:


> I might be mistaken, but I believe this category we're all writing in is "T-Shirt Marketing".


Yes, and I was expressing the opinion that it would be a poor form of "T-Shirt Marketing."

There's this concept that came along some time after the invention of language called "discussion" that I think some people here may have missed out on, but it's a great concept we can all benefit from. Basically, one person offers an opinion, _then_ (and this is the good bit) other people offer _their_ opinions which may _differ_ from the original opinion. Whacky eh? Just because someone makes a statement, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean I can't disagree. Likewise you then get to disagree with me. It helps if you actually make your case rather than just implying I'm a doodyhead though.

Instead of people getting pissy with me and posting completely unproductive "why don't you just shut up" posts, how about you offer your own opinion in return? You know, engage in some of this new fangled _discussion_.

It beats bringing up posts a week later and not adding any content of your own to an otherwise dead horse.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Easy guys, let's keep this civil  Understand that folks will have differing and sometimes strong opinions on topics.

Please feel free to debate and discuss the TOPIC, but not attacks on the PERSON.


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## bjmason32 (Jul 1, 2005)

Let me take a second to engage in this new found "discussion" you speak so elequently of. 



Solmu said:


> Yes, and I was expressing the opinion that it would be a poor form of "T-Shirt Marketing."


Why? Because other blogs suck? Because other blogs are blatantly self promotional? Did anyone suggest to write an overtly self serving blog? Did the thought ever occur to you that someone might appreciate what he had to say? 

Regardless, my point is that a blog allows for efficient CONTENT creation to increase the scope of one's website in order to index as many pages as possible with the major engines. This is something that ever NEW, PART-TIME webmaster could use, as opposed to sweeping negative remarks absent of alternative suggestions. 

DONT write a T-Shirt BLOG ! T-shirts Blogs BLOW

Brilliant! 

Anyways, all in good fun. No hard feelings.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

bjmason32 said:


> Why?


I already covered this (somewhat). If you are genuinely interested we can discuss it some more, but I'm guessing that was a rhetorical question.



bjmason32 said:


> Did the thought ever occur to you that someone might appreciate what he had to say?


Did the thought ever occur to *you* that people might appreciate another viewpoint so that they could fully consider an idea before implementing it?

Why are you referring to yourself in the third person by the way? It's a little weird.

Posting my message didn't remove the original - I'm not invalidating people's opportunity to "appreciate what he had to say." Stop trying to invalidate mine. Engage with the statements, not the fact that I said them. If people thought it was a good idea and that I didn't exactly make a convincing case for the negative then they can make their own decision.

There is nothing wrong with offering an opinion that differs to someone else's. Stop criticising me for it.


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## DickTees.net (Apr 5, 2005)

Solmu said:


> There is nothing wrong with offering an opinion that differs to someone else's. Stop criticising me for it.


You shouldn't sit there and demand freedom of speech and then go on to dictate when someone else is allowed to criticize you.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

DickTees.net said:


> You shouldn't sit there and demand freedom of speech and then go on to dictate when someone else is allowed to criticize you.


Please point me to the bit where I "*demanded* freedom of speech" or the bit where I "*dicated* what someone is *allowed* to do". I asked that people do what they came here to do (discuss t-shirts and related topics, not whether or not I'm an asshole), and that is all.

People can feel free to add "By the way, I really don't like you." on to their _relevant_ posts - I really don't care. I just wish we weren't having *this* conversation.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Sometimes I wish we had a common enemy again....


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

monkeylantern said:


> Sometimes I wish we had a common enemy again....


I think it might be me


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Only on your grumpy days


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