# so help me, i'm going to buy a phoenix phire, unless you talk me out of it



## Parlophone (Feb 8, 2007)

i'm going to buy a 16" x 16" phoenix phire digital release heat press. if anybody has anything negative to say or another recommendation, please speak now or forever hold your peace.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Parlophone said:


> i'm going to buy a 16" x 16" phoenix phire digital release heat press. if anybody has anything negative to say or another recommendation, please speak now or forever hold your peace.


Get a bigger one (unless you really need a smaller one)


----------



## Parlophone (Feb 8, 2007)

phoenix phire 16 x 20 = $1,300

power pro 16 x 20 = $750 

aside from the auto-open, can anybody explain the $550 price difference?


----------



## Parlophone (Feb 8, 2007)

Rodney said:


> Get a bigger one (unless you really need a smaller one)


why would somebody _need_ a small one? wouldn't bigger always be better? i've never done heat transfers, so i don't have any experience to figure out the advantages of a smaller press.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Parlophone said:


> why would somebody _need_ a small one? wouldn't bigger always be better? i've never done heat transfers, so i don't have any experience to figure out the advantages of a smaller press.


A couple of reasons for smaller ones that I've read here are:

- mobility (for example, if you want to press t-shirts at events)

- weight (one member felt the bigger press was too heavy,in that case a smaller press might be better)


----------



## KEB (Jun 29, 2006)

Parlophone said:


> phoenix phire 16 x 20 = $1,300
> 
> power pro 16 x 20 = $750
> 
> aside from the auto-open, can anybody explain the $550 price difference?


 Digital readout and controls on the Phoenix, and the auto-opening is a huge feature in terms of user-friendliness and should not be underestimated. There is more value in the Phoenix and you won't be sorry. I have used both and there is a difference.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Parlophone said:


> phoenix phire 16 x 20 = $1,300
> 
> power pro 16 x 20 = $750
> 
> aside from the auto-open, can anybody explain the $550 price difference?


I'm probably not the best person to explain this to you, but I think another difference is the top platen. The Phoenix has a "floating" top platen which makes it easier to get even pressure on a variety of garments (t-shirts, hoodies, zips, etc)

The auto-open is pretty nice as well.

But honestly, I don't know enough about the Power Pro press to do a side by side comparison of the two. You could give Josh a call and see if he could explain them both.


----------



## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

Rodney said:


> A couple of reasons for smaller ones that I've read here are:
> 
> - mobility (for example, if you want to press t-shirts at events)
> 
> - weight (one member felt the bigger press was too heavy,in that case a smaller press might be better)


 
Space is also a good reason, especially when you're pressing fixed-size objects, ie mouse pads. The auto open feature is great, especially when you print large jobs. You can multi-task while your press is doing its job, w/o having to worry about burning your shirt. For a short attention span person like myself, it's a life saver!


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

The Phoenix Phire is a great press. I agree with Rodney in that the larger the presses are what people should go with if they are purchasing their first press. Presses usually last a long time. So the additional investment in the larger press will easily payoff over time and you will be able to do more items.

Some of the differences between those two presses would be the following:
- The auto open function that you are already aware of
- Every piece of metal on the PP is a solid piece of metal. No welding points, so it is a stronger built press.
- The auto open function uses a magnets that help make the closing the press easier.

Saying these things, don't be surprised if the press is actually made by the same manufacturer - Hotronix. I can't guarantee this, but the presses have some similar features (i.e. pressure screw is over the center of the heating element, floating heating element,...).

I also just saw a press release that the Hotronix now has a new digital pressure display on some of there presses. I would ask Josh or the guys at Imprintables if they PP is going to have this on it.

As far as other presses, Geo Knight, Insta and Hix Corp have auto release presses as well. The unique thing about the Hix auto release is that it has a release switch on the handle that will deactivate the auto open function. This becomes helpful when doing dye sublimation to help prevent the ghosting.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I also just saw a press release that the Hotronix now has a new digital pressure display on some of there presses. I would ask Josh or the guys at Imprintables if they PP is going to have this on it.


mmmmmmm...digital pressure display. I gotta have one of those.


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Rodney said:


> mmmmmmm...digital pressure display. I gotta have one of those.


Mmmmmm..... meee toooo.....


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Get a bigger one (unless you really need a smaller one)


Bigger is better. Is that really true? I mean, I wouldn't go smaller than 16x16 but I've had mine for 8 months or so and I have had no need for a 16x20. It all really depends on what you're going to be pressing. 

This is a question, not a criticism. I'm curious what you're pressing that makes the larger size necessary. How big are your transfers? 14x18?


----------



## Parlophone (Feb 8, 2007)

DAGuide said:


> As far as other presses, Geo Knight, Insta and Hix Corp have auto release presses as well.


I've been hearing about the GeoKnight 16x20 heat press. Care to compare and contrast the Phoenix Phire and the GeoKnight?

Thanks!!!


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Power pro 16x20 is listed at $1,050.00. They're selling it at $750. I'm guessing they've had to lower their price as the new digital units are taking sales away from the older ones. I'm sure they're still making a decent profit at that price. They probably only cost a couple hundred to manufacture.


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Bigger is better. Is that really true? I mean, I wouldn't go smaller than 16x16 but I've had mine for 8 months or so and I have had no need for a 16x20. It all really depends on what you're going to be pressing.
> 
> This is a question, not a criticism. I'm curious what you're pressing that makes the larger size necessary. How big are your transfers? 14x18?


way true! shirts bigger than say a 3X - and multiples of hard surface items - tiles, coasters, ornaments, even mousepads and coozies - bigger IS better


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

A 20" high press is very helpful when doing larger jerseys (i.e. hockey style jerseys) where you have a name and numbers or if you are using a 13" x 19" wide transfer / dye sub paper. You can try and do the names and numbers on the jersey separately, but you can easily notice items are crooked when you have the name go straight across the back and the top of the numbers are not lining up correctly. 

If you are doing dye sub, you can also gang up more smaller items (i.e. name badges, ornaments,...) on the platen at once and cut down your product time.

As far as the digital pressure display, it uses a number system and not a specific psi reading. I was told that this has been available on some of their other non-automatic presses (i.e. swing away and draw possibly). But it is still a step in the right direction for getting more control and consistency. Props for Hotronix in bring this to more of their machines.


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

jberte said:


> way true! shirts bigger than say a 3X - and multiples of hard surface items - tiles, coasters, ornaments, even mousepads and coozies - bigger IS better


Are you using a bigger transfer on a 3x shirt? If not, what's the difference?

I can see how ganging stuff up would be useful.


----------



## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Are you using a bigger transfer on a 3x shirt? If not, what's the difference?
> 
> I can see how ganging stuff up would be useful.


The only difference I can think of is having a larger surface to help with shirt alignment on the larger shirts.....


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

treadhead said:


> The only difference I can think of is having a larger surface to help with shirt alignment on the larger shirts.....


Exactly. I think an add-on table that goes all the way around would help more and be cheaper. Just think, you can have guides built into the table (dots, lines, whatever)!


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

DAGuide said:


> A 20" high press is very helpful when doing larger jerseys (i.e. hockey style jerseys)


Ahh.. Hadn't thought about that. Makes sense.


I updated my math thread. It has my measurements and calculations for PSI based on knob turns.


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

in many cases, yes........the typical size image that will work just fine for a s-m-l-xl shirt looks utterly lost at sea on a really big shirt.....so yes, i do up-size the images for big sizes!


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

jberte said:


> in many cases, yes........the typical size image that will work just fine for a s-m-l-xl shirt looks utterly lost at sea on a really big shirt.....so yes, i do up-size the images for big sizes!


I was thinking about this just yesterday as I was thinking what size to print the t-shirtforums shirt design.

I was wearing this design from threadless on a size 2XL tee and it looked to be a decent size. I figured it had to be at least 10" across, but it was actually only 8" across at its widest point.

I think when you actually put the shirt on, even the smaller graphics don't look "too" lost on the larger size tees. This probably would be less true on the 3XL and 4XL+, but the perspective does change a bit when the shirt is on as opposed to when it's lying flat.


----------



## jberte (Mar 25, 2007)

Rodney said:


> I was thinking about this just yesterday as I was thinking what size to print the t-shirtforums shirt design.
> 
> I was wearing this design from threadless on a size 2XL tee and it looked to be a decent size. I figured it had to be at least 10" across, but it was actually only 8" across at its widest point.
> 
> I think when you actually put the shirt on, even the smaller graphics don't look "too" lost on the larger size tees. This probably would be less true on the 3XL and 4XL+, but the perspective does change a bit when the shirt is on as opposed to when it's lying flat.


yes, sorry i meant the 3X and up....i might have said that somewhere earlier or in another thread - it's monday here again today  

i do realize that they're actually bigger than they seem when laying down, but i had a 3X - 4X size friend model one for me with the regular size print taped to the chest and it just looked........wimpy! i didn't upsize it a LOT but enough to make it look like it belonged on a shirt of that stature!

i've done some 5X and 6X shirts and i just have to eyeball them for the right size graphic. must have turned out okay - none have come back to me and several have re-ordered


----------



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I have a 15" x 15" and a couple things I can't do are:
1) the sublimatable lap desks because they are wider than 15"
2) larger glass cutting boards becuase it's 16" wide

And I also have to do some jerseys in 2 presses on the back, if they total design is taller than 15".

But having the smaller one also has advantages for the smaller shirts, because you don't have to press over the sleeve seems, where you would have to on the larger press. Hey, why not just buy both


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Moo Spot Prints said:


> Bigger is better. Is that really true? I mean, I wouldn't go smaller than 16x16 but I've had mine for 8 months or so and I have had no need for a 16x20. It all really depends on what you're going to be pressing.
> 
> This is a question, not a criticism. I'm curious what you're pressing that makes the larger size necessary. How big are your transfers? 14x18?


 There are oversized transfers that I would love to get my hands on if we had a 16x20. I would personally buy larger and let auto opening go if that was a pricing factor. With hot peel transfers I cant really leave the press for 8-10 seconds anyway.


----------



## dudenukem (Mar 14, 2007)

I have a 16X16 from Stahl's, really haven't used it much but it seems to be what I need (for now at least). I hope to buy another one someday, maybe by then i'll have a better idea if I actually need a BIGGER press or not....


----------



## lukagirl (Oct 13, 2006)

They have a digital pressure sensor on them now AND they went down $200.. Since I just bought one last month I'm not very happy that Josh didn't tell me a new (cheaper-better) one would arrive shortly.. The least he could have done was give me a discount on their what now would be "old stock" or give me the same $200 off... The phoenix press works great though


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Are you sure about the price? From the website, it looks the same. The digital sensor thing is pretty nice and works very easily. Bib props to Ben and the rest of the team at Hotronix for bring this to the non-auto presses.


----------



## lukagirl (Oct 13, 2006)

I have a receipt here that says I paid 1295.00 for a 16x16 phoenix and the website now has the new digital pressure ones listed at 1095.00..


----------



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I paid $2000 for my Roland GX-24, and now they are selling for under $1500. That's just part of the business. The longer you wait, the cheaper stuff gets. I don't think it's Josh's responsibility to tell everybody when a price drop is going to happen. Actually, I imagine Imprintables would not appreciate it if he did do it.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I just saw the digital pressure meters on the new Heat Presses at imprintables.com yesterday. 

It would be cool if they had a trade-in program or something. I want one of those pressure gauges


----------



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> It would be cool if they had a trade-in program or something. I want one of those pressure gauges


I wonder if an upgrade kit would be possible?


----------



## GoljamPrazStudio (Jan 10, 2007)

*Phoenix Phire big problems beware!!!!!!!*

I've had lots of headaches and expenses dealing with this press!!!!!!
First the press arrived not well put together. ( the buttons of the display did not make any contact with the electrical part) I called a specialist and he spent 2 hours trying to bring it closer to the buttons so that it made contact.
After 2 weeks of using it the display started going out- did not make contact. I followed the electrical curcuitry with an electrician, but everything was correct. 

What was not printed was the drawing beyound the transformer-not everything is shown. So I had to call another electronics specialist, who spent another 2-3 hours searching. The culprit was that one of wires/legs was not copletely connected with cold soldering. He said that this is a factory deffect when the plate was made, they are supposed to check after the robots have done their work and apparently they didn't. He had to solder/weld the thing wich was very tiny!

Here is the description for the press I bought:

*Phoenix™ Phire 11" x 15" 
*Digital Pressure Display
Automatic Opening 

*Price: *$795.00 qty: 

*Now with Digital Pressure Display

*The Phoenix Phire has risen to the occasion once again. Now, at no additional charge, every new Phoenix Phire Heat Press will have a Digital Pressure Display(DPD). This is live, continuos, accurate pressure readout so you will never have to guess about the true pressure being applied to your garment. If you value having excellent results consistently, if customer satisfaction is paramount in your business, if you appreciate being 100% accurate 100% of the time, then make the NEW Phoenix Phire Heat Press your next purchase.


----------



## Moo Spot Prints (Jul 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I wonder if an upgrade kit would be possible?


I'm sure we can ultimately hack something together but based on the pictures, I'd say no, it's not a drop in replacement. It has a separate LED display which would require mounting and wiring to the board. It *looks* like they're taking the measurement off the cross bar (you can see a small wire going from the arm joint to the head).

Anybody care to take theirs apart and take some pictures? If they didn't re-spin the board, it might be doable.


----------

