# How do youmake money screen printing???



## cowboylife (Feb 4, 2012)

After my first attempt at screen printing which did not go so well, I got to thinking after I got another order..... how do you make any money screen printing????

My next order is... a one color for the front and a 2 color for the back, with wording then paw prints in the center. Now to me that means either 3 screens or 2 screens (if 2 screens then I have to tape off the area that is another color). I will have to take each shirt off the platen 3 times to achieve this shirt design. If I don't do a minimum of 20 shirts, and I am charging $8.00 a shirt, I am making no money... and some people don't want 20 shirts, how is this profitable? What am I doing wrong??


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Screenprinting is deceptively simple, not that it is difficult but is a learned skill. That's why there are so many terrible printers. I'm not clear on what you are trying to print but I recommend that you seek training or work for someone if possible. You will learn more in a day than in months of working on your own. If you post a picture of the design I'm sure we can help you be more efficient.


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## cowboylife (Feb 4, 2012)

attached is what they sent to me.


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## mpn (May 14, 2012)

This is how I would print this job. I'm a rookie screen printer but have been an offset printer for 20+ years.

Front would be white / yellow 2 screens
back would be white / yellow / blue 3 screens

Would like someone with experience to chime in too.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

You should be charging about double that price. $8 would be for over 100 shirts for that number of colors


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## cowboylife (Feb 4, 2012)

Just curious but what is an offset printer?

I was planning on using opaque inks to eliminate the under base and more screens, or I would really be loosing money. My thoughts were to have 2 screens, printing all of the shirt fronts first then send through the conveyor dryer, tape off the paw prints and print the wording on the back, then send through the conveyor dryer, then put back onto the platen and remove the tape where the paw prints are then tape the wording then print the paws and run through the conveyor??? Is there an easier way???


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## mpn (May 14, 2012)

cowboylife said:


> Just curious but what is an offset printer?
> 
> I was planning on using opaque inks to eliminate the under base and more screens, or I would really be loosing money. My thoughts were to have 2 screens, printing all of the shirt fronts first then send through the conveyor dryer, tape off the paw prints and print the wording on the back, then send through the conveyor dryer, then put back onto the platen and remove the tape where the paw prints are then tape the wording then print the paws and run through the conveyor??? Is there an easier way???


Offset printing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## joey1320 (Feb 21, 2012)

I would go to customink and quote the same design on their site. See what kinda pricing they are expecting. 


Sent from my Z992 using T-Shirt Forums


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## StarDesigns (Aug 4, 2013)

Burn another screen for the back. Wording on one, paw prints in the other and print wet on wet.


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## nypdofficer1 (Feb 19, 2012)

For that job, I'd have to go with 3 screens because the front print is pretty much one screen on its own due to the size. Then the back would have to be 2 screens because of the size and you'd have to register the screens so they align just right. 

Custom Ink really isn't a bargain. I recently picked up a pizzeria who initially did their shirts through custom ink but for whatever reason chose me for their next batch of shirts and they were very happy with my shirts. I believe I may have even been cheaper. Remember companies that big make things look good to potential customers by stating no screen fees or set up fees but in reality they do charge it but they make it a part of the shirt price. 

For 20 shirts, front and back I would be in the ball park of $12 a shirt and $15 a screen. This price assumes shirt sizes are small to XL. 

Know what you need to charge to make a profit. It doesn't matter what others charge. Everyone's expenses are different. Only you know what bills you have. 

Best of luck to you!!


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## JohnBee (Nov 28, 2010)

cowboylife said:


> After my first attempt at screen printing which did not go so well, I got to thinking after I got another order..... how do you make any money screen printing????
> 
> My next order is... a one color for the front and a 2 color for the back, with wording then paw prints in the center. Now to me that means either 3 screens or 2 screens (if 2 screens then I have to tape off the area that is another color). I will have to take each shirt off the platen 3 times to achieve this shirt design. If I don't do a minimum of 20 shirts, and I am charging $8.00 a shirt, I am making no money... and some people don't want 20 shirts, how is this profitable? What am I doing wrong??


3 screens x $45 per screen = $135
2 hours of your labor x $35 per hour = $70
6 shirts x $6.00 each (no print yet) = $36 (Gildan 100% cotton)

tell them the more they order, the more it gets cheaper.

follow this pricing formula and you will have happy screen printing days all the time.


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## printmedia365 (Nov 29, 2013)

been a while since I did any screen printing but thats 5 screens to me x's your screen charge which should be atleast 25.00 per screen 
treat it like 16 shirts 3 colors on the cost per print and charge for the shirts separately. Really you would be better off finding someone close with a ecosolvent printer cutter to do it as transfers. Because if you dont have the ability to match pantones you might miss the colors with the ink you have and if you have to buy ink 0 profit. You wont make much if any money but you'll wow the customer and when they need a big order youll make money . When the print cut guy/girl needs you . Bam Bam works out..... The advice above about learning from someone is so right . A fellow printer taught me years ago and I was her competition . God Bless her


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## printmedia365 (Nov 29, 2013)

As far as how to make money in general . The customers who don't have a design they are repeating try and steer them into what you can do easily. People want complicated until its time to pay for it. When I was printing I did 99 % of my jobs with a flash dryer but a multi color multi station press is a must. You shouldnt have to remove a shirt from the platen until your finished printing


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## cowboylife (Feb 4, 2012)

nypdofficer1 said:


> For 20 shirts, front and back I would be in the ball park of $12 a shirt and $15 a screen. This price assumes shirt sizes are small to XL.
> 
> Know what you need to charge to make a profit. It doesn't matter what others charge. Everyone's expenses are different. Only you know what bills you have.
> 
> Best of luck to you!!



I like what you said and it makes perfect sense... I was not charging for screen set up. Thankfully I have no overhead, just a lot of expense in trying to get going over the past four years. I just don't like the thought of loosing money on jobs presented to me, then I question myself about charging more because I am a rookie and my quality is nothing like you guys. One disadvantage is, where I live in the South, the most anyone wants to pay for a shirt is $15.00 max, but one good thing is I don't have a lot of competition in my area. I just need to work on being a good printer and practicing, but that costs money too. 

Thanks guys!


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I would be at $18/shirt. And like Mitchell said, you need to learn printing wet on wet. You want to load a shirt only once per side.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

either wet on wet or flash. I would never take a shirt off a platen to run though dryer just to put back on and print the same side. With opaque ink this is 3 screens 1 front 2 back. even with opaque ink it would be a print flash print. $20-$25 a screen then Im .55 per impression so $1.10 per color x3 plus shirt and 35% mark up so Id be at $8.20 with a Gildan Heavy cotton. with the low numbers Id charge more of the $25 screen fee and be $9.20. But you need to break down your cost and figure what does it cost you to make a screen, tshirt cost, ink and so forth. If your trying to match someone else's price forget that. I do look up on custom ink sometimes if someone questions my price just to see but for the most part I don't get asked


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Raise your prices. If you're not comfortable quoting a customer a realistic price that will allow you to make money then practice in front of a mirror. 

Give them the price and then shut up and wait for them to say something.

It's pretty simple really. You're giving it away.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

cowboylife said:


> ... One disadvantage is, where I live in the South, the most anyone wants to pay for a shirt is $15.00 max, ...





cowboylife said:


> ...
> I don't have a lot of competition in my area....


Those two statements don't make sense together. The laws of economics state that you can charge a higher price when there is little or no competition. 

You may think you can't sell a shirt for over $15, have you tried?

Here is the basic rule to figuring out your pricing

If you quote a price and they jump at it, you are too low
If you quote a price and they walk away, you are too high
If you quote a price and they either try to negotiate or take a while to take it, you are probably right on. 

Take the profitable jobs and let your competition take the unprofitable ones.


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## terzdesign (Mar 8, 2010)

For a one color front and two color back on 20 of these with a basic cotton tee, the price from my shop would be $11.88 for the print and $4 for the shirt. So a total of $15.88. We don't have setup fees or screen charges so that is the final cost. If they would get 24 (the next price break up) the cost would go down substantially to $11.24/piece. I would tell my client that and they would almost certainly spring for 4 more.

I have made it (kinda, haha, I'm still new) in the industry by making a niche for myself. Mine is with fantastic design. Find something that makes your shop stick out from the rest and price doesn't matter so much.


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## terzdesign (Mar 8, 2010)

sben763 said:


> either wet on wet or flash. I would never take a shirt off a platen to run though dryer just to put back on and print the same side. With opaque ink this is 3 screens 1 front 2 back. even with opaque ink it would be a print flash print. $20-$25 a screen then Im .55 per impression so $1.10 per color x3 plus shirt and 35% mark up so Id be at $8.20 with a Gildan Heavy cotton. with the low numbers Id charge more of the $25 screen fee and be $9.20. But you need to break down your cost and figure what does it cost you to make a screen, tshirt cost, ink and so forth. If your trying to match someone else's price forget that. I do look up on custom ink sometimes if someone questions my price just to see but for the most part I don't get asked


You guys are just giving your shirts away for less than ten bucks a piece on this order. I guess if it works for you more power to ya.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

jcterzin said:


> You guys are just giving your shirts away for less than ten bucks a piece on this order. I guess if it works for you more power to ya.


I am by far not the cheapest in my area. I just had a customer want 12-24 3 color shirts I gave him the $8.50 price he brings me a quote from a shop for $6.00 and wants me to match it. I don't have a retail space and they do so this guy is saying I should be able to beat his price. I told him go have them done. I have 14+ print shops in my area and countless garage shop that do $5 1 color shirts all day long and not much more for 2-3 colors. Another guy brought a 3 color quote left chest and half back for 100 shirts $4.71 from one of the biggest shops here. So everyone here has to realize that location may factor what someone can charge. 

I don't get into pricing wars and just sell myself on quality so I can get the higher prices but if I end up being double all the time even good customers may start shopping around.


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## cowboylife (Feb 4, 2012)

With wet on wet do you just do a flash in between? 

Sean you really live in a tough environment but I like your thought process. There is one other screen print shop within 5 counties of where I am, so it really is an open book for me. And no I have never tried with a higher bid for the shirts, as this will be only my second job.... I have been to class, and read books, and watched many Youtube videos, and DVD's on screen printing but I can say until you have actually screen printed, there is NO comparison!! I will have to practice and practice and I don't even have anyone I can hire that knows anything about screen printing. Once my confidence is better with what I am doing, then charging more will be no problem....


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Wet on wet is no flash but to do so first no colors can touch unless doing a simulated process. 2 you have do a run up on a test garment. So that the first color isn't light on the first few garments. Also thinner inks work better for wet on wet. 

I have a 6/6 and my flash station is in position 3 but I have an auto flash and run on manual so its easy to move flash when needed. I find it easier just to print each color and move on. But with a 1 or 2 station press maybe quicker wet on wet.


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## terzdesign (Mar 8, 2010)

sben763 said:


> I am by far not the cheapest in my area. I just had a customer want 12-24 3 color shirts I gave him the $8.50 price he brings me a quote from a shop for $6.00 and wants me to match it. I don't have a retail space and they do so this guy is saying I should be able to beat his price. I told him go have them done. I have 14+ print shops in my area and countless garage shop that do $5 1 color shirts all day long and not much more for 2-3 colors. Another guy brought a 3 color quote left chest and half back for 100 shirts $4.71 from one of the biggest shops here. So everyone here has to realize that location may factor what someone can charge.
> 
> I don't get into pricing wars and just sell myself on quality so I can get the higher prices but if I end up being double all the time even good customers may start shopping around.


Yea, I completely understand. You have to be competitive. Just for kicks, I threw 16, 3 color basic tees into my excel file calculator that I made for my shop. It was telling me that at 8.50/piece my profit margin was 3.5%! lol. If that other dude was charging only $6/piece I'm losing money.


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## chrisf116 (Jul 26, 2007)

Let them go to the guy who's willing to do them for $6. I've been there, done that. It's not worth your time!

I'd be between $15-$17 a shirt out the door for this job at 20 shirts.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

jcterzin said:


> Yea, I completely understand. You have to be competitive. Just for kicks, I threw 16, 3 color basic tees into my excel file calculator that I made for my shop. It was telling me that at 8.50/piece my profit margin was 3.5%! lol. If that other dude was charging only $6/piece I'm losing money.



Where you located in IN.

Something don't seem right though at 3.5% but like I've said in many post everyone's situations are different. I'm going to update my sheet to see what margin I would be at. All my cost on my current sheet are out dated as I now get cheaper blanks and better supply prices. 

In a recent thread there was discussion on this with 50 shirts. I was making between $75-$100 per hour on that job after expenses. Here's the thing I don't pay rent and own my shop all my equipment outright. I negotiate with suppliers for supply and blank pricing to keep cost down.


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## terzdesign (Mar 8, 2010)

sben763 said:


> Where you located in IN.
> 
> Something don't seem right though at 3.5% but like I've said in many post everyone's situations are different. I'm going to update my sheet to see what margin I would be at. All my cost on my current sheet are out dated as I now get cheaper blanks and better supply prices.
> 
> In a recent thread there was discussion on this with 50 shirts. I was making between $75-$100 per hour on that job after expenses. Here's the thing I don't pay rent and own my shop all my equipment outright. I negotiate with suppliers for supply and blank pricing to keep cost down.


That example I used I took the shirt blank cost of about $2.25 average (maybe a bit high) and then took my cost of setting up three screens with labor for 16 shirts and got around $6 for the print, so a total cost of $8.25 cost. Maybe not 3%, I'm not good at math.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We want our gross margin at around 80% to account for our overhead. We don't take unprofitable jobs. We let our competition take them.


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## hbapparel (Jan 16, 2012)

You gotta mark your shirts up too. Otherwise you are losing money.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

hbapparel said:


> You gotta mark your shirts up too. Otherwise you are losing money.


That's old fashioned thinking, build your profit into the labor then if you want to mark up shirts that's fine but count it as extra.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

I mark shirts up 35%. Its not much. I mark screens up 50%. In labor, chemicals emulsion is around $12.50. I charge $25. If your spending much more then this then you need to look into your cost as this doesn't change much. My biggest savings I don't have a retail shop so I'm not paying rent or a mortgage. I also am a 1 man show so my only employees are uncle Sam and the bums that don't work.

I also don't make it a habit to do small jobs. If a repeat customer comes in sure. If it a new customer I'll mark it up. If that new customer comes in blowing off how many more orders they will be bringing I send them to my competitor as those people never do


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## hbapparel (Jan 16, 2012)

wormil said:


> That's old fashioned thinking, build your profit into the labor then if you want to mark up shirts that's fine but count it as extra.


Old Fashioned? Hahaha. It's that kind of thinking that devalues what we do as an industry. I own a business to make money, not for the rest of the cut throats that just want to say they are busy.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

hbapparel said:


> Old Fashioned? Hahaha. It's that kind of thinking that devalues what we do as an industry. I own a business to make money, not for the rest of the cut throats that just want to say they are busy.


You misunderstand, read it again, it's to your benefit not detriment.


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## MimosaTexas (Oct 31, 2010)

Your pricing requires a fairly complex formula to be both accurate and profitable on a consistent basis. You need to monitor everything from your monthly rent and utilities, to how many screens can be reclaimed using a gallon of your chemical or choice, to how much ink goes onto a shirt (weigh it before and after printing).

You don't have to be exact to the penny on every shirt accounting for every variable, but you should be able to aggregate your time and expenses, divide each by the quantity of shirts you have printed, and understand how long and what it costs to produce a shirt. You can then look at the individual costs or categories of cost and the individual time sinks (printing, communicating with a client, prepping screens) and price each accordingly.

Others commenting "i mark up my shirts by 50%" and "i charge $25 per screen" are not telling you anything very useful for helping you be profitable. It is always interesting to know what others are doing, but for you to have accurate pricing and make money, you will HAVE to sit down and do the leg work to know what you are spending in time and money and what you would like to make in profit, and divide that by how many shirts you can output in a given amount of time.

Once you know those things, you can do research into pricing in your market to stay competitive, and you can see where you need to improve efficiency in your process to increase profitability in a given time or across a given amount of units printed.


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

First thought: One thing you can (should) do is start using accounting software ( like quickbooks online, or others) so that you are recording all your expenses and revenues in one place. Then you have data. Without data about what you are actually spending, you will never know if you are making or losing money until it's too late.


Second thought: You are defeating yourself. You have decided what price people will pay without actually trying it. I bet if you asked for $15 per shirt, and then just shut up and waited for an answer, the customer would say yes. Silence is very powerful, use that power to your advantage.


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## MimosaTexas (Oct 31, 2010)

quickbooks online is great, and i second the recommendation. Not only is the software easy to use and cheap ($10 a month or so...very worth it), but you also get live support included in your subscription. It isn't just technical support either, they will help you with everything from glitches, to feature requests, to showing you how to organize your business (within reason) and different ways of doing things with the software to receive different reporting results. It is as much support as it is introductory financial education.


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## pushproductions (Jul 30, 2013)

sell more shirts


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Quickbooks is great for tracking but you need to input the data. It's not going figure your cost per screen for example. Above I put $12.50 above. I usually do screens in 12 at a time and the cost with labor is actually much lower. I add 35% profit for my company to reinvest in equipment and other expenses like business cards ect. I could go and get a retail space but then I would have to charge more while providing the same product. 

I change my mind I don't make any money and do this just for the fun of it.


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