# Rhinestone FILLS



## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

-don't want to start a software war... NOR have to purchase software unnecessarily.
Each software usually excels in 1-2 depts... that's why people many time use more than one to accomplish their specific need.
=========
I'm looking for which software produces the easiest FILLS. NOT just lines that go up vertically but a fill which follows simple curvature of irregular shapes... and applies the stones REASONABLY well.
I am spending WAY too much time hand tweaking after the application of stones.
It may be that the various softwares are only good at regular shapes... but it can't hurt to TRY ...
* Take a silhouette of an elephant... I would be trying to fill having the stones follow the various curves..as much as possible.
ANY suggestions appreciated.

LEO


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

what software are you using. I have three different ones...post the image and I will send you an fill from that has not been manipulated....or you can send me the image. I have DAS, R-wear and Winpcsign


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

Charles 
I would love to see the pictures of the 3 un retouched imagines from your 3 softwares - could you post them to everyone


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I will if I get the photo or image


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

This is a .jpg of part of current project. Will this do to get some software differences?
I was using 10ss (3.8mm circles) but have also tried at 8ss ( 3.2ss circles)

THX ! LEO


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

When I open this file it appears to be a bitmap and not a vector file. Will this make a difference in how the stones arrange themselves on the design? I'm just asking...I'm so green on this process. Looking to learn more.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

Yes.. it has to be a vector file.

LEO


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

stones are normally plotted along lines (vectors) so if you have raster images they need to be converted to line art. Even fills are plotted along interior contour lines to the center,


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I am attached a jpg image of the poodle done with winpcsign and R-Wear. DAS program is on my computer at the store so I will do that on Monday. the Win PC file is 1083 stones and R-wear is 1093 stones. I converted the pdf file to a bitmap and let each program vector it and this is the result.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

THANK YOU !

This is VERY interesting.
I am attaching what I have done with ACS Studio using the Transform Outline and Inline features.
Required ALOT of tweaking but there is some semblance of 'contouring'.
Are there any programs which do not just fill with straight horizontal lines?

Will look forward to the DAS output.

This design is part of a Tracking/Search and Rescue Poodle design.

THX< LEO


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

Thank you Charles for putting up a comparison like that!
It reiterates why I love WPC so much!


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I have both programs and do a lot of animal images - i find I get better smooth lines with acs. Yes I do quite a bit of moving and adding stones but I figure since I will be using these designs for a long time I want the out lines smooth and flowing -I use winsign for lettering most- I do not regret buying both programs as they each have there purpose for me


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

LEO said:


> THANK YOU !
> 
> This is VERY interesting.
> I am attaching what I have done with ACS Studio using the Transform Outline and Inline features.
> ...


I would be interested to see this before you tweaked the rhinestone design.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

JAF said:


> I would be interested to see this before you tweaked the rhinestone design.


I second that... I'd like to know what the settings are for all 3 designs. Spacing makes a big difference so it would be good to see them all with the same size circles and same spacing.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

Judy, 
I have recreated it as it appeared BEFORE days of tweaking. The number of stones is about what Charles also has.. a little over 1000.
Done for 8ss stones. Hole size 3.2mm.
ACS will do the horizontal/vertical line fill very well also.. BUT what I'm trying to find is a program which does a better job of the contour-type fills.
There is some 'operator error' here also... I'm sure there are people who could MAKE ACS do better..I'm TRYING... but it's very hard on the eyes !

LEO


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

I don't have ACS but when I use Corel or WPC, I change the color of the circles to something much easier on my eyes before I start tweaking. I agree that the black dots would give me a migraine in a matter of minutes!


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

I don't think you are going to find any program that will do a complete contour fill like you are wanting. I tweak all of mine to get that smooth effect. Like someone else said, if you are going to use the template for a long time it's worth the extra effort to tweak..

Here is a mule I did for a person, it took me about 3 hrs to do.. but it really looks good on a shirt.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

As promised here is the DAS fill. This has 883 stones

Each program has it's own merits...that is why I have 3


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

VERY interesting !
This comparison of softwares on same design is VERY helpful.
The only one I haven't seen is the HATCH fill with ACS Studio.
I have KNK Studio which does not have this feature.
I imagine that most people fill symmetrical designs... irregular shapes are a real test especially if you want to maintain some contouring.
This DAS does that and I 'presume' that you can adjust the spacing.
THX ! Charles

LEO


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

LEO said:


> THANK YOU !
> 
> This is VERY interesting.
> I am attaching what I have done with ACS Studio using the Transform Outline and Inline features.
> ...


I like the look of the ACS design. Too bad that it needed ALOT of tweaking


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

What size are you guys making the dog and what size circles and what size spacing between the circles?

Sorry I'm coming in late on this. I'm on Day 12 getting over a REALLY bad stomach flu or possible food poisoning. Not sure! My poor assistant got it on the same day I did and is still even sicker than I am. : (


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

charles95405 said:


> As promised here is the DAS fill. This has 883 stones
> 
> Each program has it's own merits...that is why I have 3


The DAS design has overlapping circles. Did you need to do something to the design first to prevent that? In our software, you have to do a Make Path and then the circles will never overlap.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

Sandy, 
The holes are 3.75 for 10ss stones and the spacing was orginally set at 4.5 in the KNK software.
This was done with a combination of the outline with stones fit to path and then inline fit to path. the only method I haven't seen is the HATCH FILL available only with ACS STUDIO.
Do you think that would do a smoother job- requiring less tweaking?
So far... KNK does the best contouring... with the best spacing... any other ideas?
Dogs are my specialty and I get requests for solid fills... don't know how much longer my eyesight will last with the tweaking ! Once done though- I'm HAPPY !

LEO


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

I will try it out in ACS. I'm surprised you have to make your holes that large for 10SS... I normally use 3.5mm and they are just right. But it could be a difference in the stones themselves. 

What are the overall dimensions of the vector of the dog that you are filling? When I imported the Charles.PDF, the image was really small... like a few inches. But I assume it's much bigger than that when you get ready to do the fill?


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

Remember, I'm new to this. 
How much of a difference will the final size of the dog art make? I know the stone size will impact the design.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

THX Sandy !
The image is 7.5" x 5.5" +/-.
I use Pellosa and find the stones to be slightly larger than the usual Koreans and also slightly 'taller'.
No one type of stones has the colors and sizes I need for dog designs.. so I scale the 10ss holes to fit the largest. I'm mixing Korean, Preciosa and Pellosa. the times and temps vary but so far so good using the green heat conductive pad that I use with my dye sub ceramic tiles.
Attached is the .KNK file. there are alot of us who will look forward to what the Hatch Fill can do.
On your video... it looks promising although the example was a symmetrical design.
I still have ALOT to learn with KNK Studio !


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

Well, 1 inch difference may or many not make a big difference, but once you start getting larger differences that that, then you'll see definite differences in the way smaller regions are filled, like the paws on the dog or the tail. And add to that the fact that the sizes of the circles and spacing may not be consistent from one software to the next... that adds in even more chances of patterns appearing quite differently. On the other hand, I would expect Charles to be using the exact same factors in his testing... just wasn't sure if what he was using was the same as what Leo is using. Sorry... I guess I spent too many years doing research! But I think it only makes logical sense to set a certain set of parameters and stick to them. : )


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

LEO said:


> THX Sandy !
> The image is 7.5" x 5.5" +/-.
> I use Pellosa and find the stones to be slightly larger than the usual Koreans and also slightly 'taller'.
> No one type of stones has the colors and sizes I need for dog designs.. so I scale the 10ss holes to fit the largest. I'm mixing Korean, Preciosa and Pellosa. the times and temps vary but so far so good using the green heat conductive pad that I use with my dye sub ceramic tiles.
> ...



Thanks! I'll have a look at it tonight or first thing tomorrow and report back! I'll probably make a video or two for this as well... showing how I would do it in KNK Studio and also how I would do it in ACS Studio.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

the images posted were jpg...and some resized to fit on page...original image is about 7 inches wide...all of mine were vectored off the same image


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

charles95405 said:


> the images posted were jpg...and some resized to fit on page...original image is about 7 inches wide...all of mine were vectored off the same image


I noticed that with the Win PC Sign and the Roland you did horizontal line fills. Those are always much easier to do... far less tweaking in general. Can you do island fills with those two software programs and show the 1st pass results?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Yes you do those fills...but the purpose of my post was to do just one of each...and I am done...


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

Charles I appreciate you doing the different softwares and posting them for us. It was very interesting - With the 2 I have right now I feel I have myself covered well for what i want to do. If money were no object I might add das


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

charles95405 said:


> Yes you do those fills...but the purpose of my post was to do just one of each...and I am done...BTW...The most versatile of them is DAS...but the price will hold some back..


What does the DAS software do that makes it more versatile?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

I can see where my opinion might generate a mine in better etc...so I edited my post to remove it. It is just my opinion...I don't want to get into a this is better because....etc...I merely stated my opinion with is certainly not what all would say...I am too busy to get into the back and forth...


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

Okay... I did all of the various combinations in both KNK and ACS Studio so that we can compare them to one another and also compare them to the Roland, Win PC Sign and DAS images that Charles posted. I'm going to make two separate posts to keep the images from being confused since I had to use different circle sizes and different spacings for the results of these two posts. In ALL cases, I've not tweaked a single circle! These are immediately after the circles are applied.

Leo had tried two different sizes: 3.2 mm for her 8SS stones and then 3.75 mm for her 10SS stones. So, I did samples using both and I used a spacing of 0.75mm as she indicated in a later post when I asked. I only posted the 8SS results, but I'm happy to post the 10SS results, if any wants to see them. I also have horizontal line fills at the different sizes and with both ACS and KNK, too,

In my opinion, while ACS Studio is a little faster using the Hatch Fill process, I was happier with the KNK Studio method, which of course, can also be used in ACS Studio. The Hatch Fill method requires you to delete the original outline of your image and sometimes this distorts the image by providing "too thin" of a look, such as you'll see in some of the dog images. So, I added and outline to give the image a fuller look. Of course, I have a very strong liking for fluffy dogs!


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

Sandy ! This is terrific !
- to actually see the various outputs of each progam.
I can't believe that I actually got the exact same output as you- using INLINE in KNK Studio!

HEY ! this is a WORKING dog.. NO BIG HAIR !
It's part of my Search and Rescue/Obedience design.
=======
I'm having problems rescaling patterns when I get order for either a larger or smaller design.
So it's back to your VIDEOS ! I have the RESCALE and RESIZE calculators but just don't have the hang of them yet.
HATE to have to redo each design in 2 sizes.
Also designs scaled for tees look skimpy on sweats.
But actually now that I'm getting 'better' at the INLINE FILLS... won't take as long.
Look forward to seeing the other post.
THX! LEO


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

Now I will compare the results of the horizontal line fill with what Charles posted for Win PC Sign, RWear and DAS. He didn't specify his circle size or spacing, so I imported his image and scaled it so that it would be 7.5" wide, which is what Leo had posted. I then measured his circles and they were ~ 3.2 mm with a spacing of ~ 0.3 mm. Charles, if this is incorrect, I'm happy to redo my fills according to exactly what you used. But I can tell, based on the visual appearance AND your total count, that you were using a closer spacing than Leo's 0.75 mm.

Again, I'm partial to the KNK method of using the AND Weld feature. While I didn't tweak my line pattern prior to applying the circles in this example, I really like having that capability as I show in a few of my rhinestone videos. On the other hand, there are definitely images that I've filled more quickly and with good results when using the Hatch Fill. So, the one big advantage with ACS Studio, is that you have the option to use Hatch Fill AND any of the other fill techniques that I've shown before. : )


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

LEO said:


> Sandy ! This is terrific !
> - to actually see the various outputs of each progam.
> I can't believe that I actually got the exact same output as you- using INLINE in KNK Studio!


Good! I would expect that, but it's alway great to have that confirmation. : )



LEO said:


> HEY ! this is a WORKING dog.. NO BIG HAIR !


Ha ha! lol



LEO said:


> It's part of my Search and Rescue/Obedience design.
> =======


Ah... okay... that makes sense. : )




LEO said:


> I'm having problems rescaling patterns when I get order for either a larger or smaller design.
> So it's back to your VIDEOS ! I have the RESCALE and RESIZE calculators but just don't have the hang of them yet.
> HATE to have to redo each design in 2 sizes.
> Also designs scaled for tees look skimpy on sweats.
> ...


Feel free to enlist my help with the resizing/respacing calculators. It would be good for me to review them, as well!  We can go over it by phone, if you like. OR you can send me a design and tell me what you want it to be and I'll make a video for you.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

THX! so for MY purposes I have the CORRECT PROGRAM !
* I prefer the lines to contour to the curves of the dog.
So I can STOP mowing lawns and taking in wash...I don't have to buy another PROGRAM !

THX ! LEO


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

LEO said:


> THX! so for MY purposes I have the CORRECT PROGRAM !
> * I prefer the lines to contour to the curves of the dog.
> So I can STOP mowing lawns and taking in wash...I don't have to buy another PROGRAM !
> 
> THX ! LEO


You're very welcome!


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## LittleDogy (Jan 15, 2008)

Great examples! Thank you!


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

as someone who spends her days working with dog designs i prefer the looks of the dogs done in lines But with both acs and winpin you get to many jagged out lines so I spend a lot of time rounding the outline by hand till I get the affect I want. I find it is easiest to correct with acs because it is the software I use the most-and I agree a fluffy dog is not good for search and rescue LOL


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## SandyMcC (Jul 23, 2009)

dan-ann said:


> But with both acs and winpin you get to many jagged out lines so I spend a lot of time rounding the outline by hand till I get the affect I want.


Are you referring to using the Transform>Outline function when you say you get too many jagged out lines? Do you change from the Point to the Round by indenting the little icon beneath the color selection box?


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

have not tried that Sandy but will do -


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