# New Method T-shirt Printer



## salisha (Jun 23, 2007)

Hello, I'm prestently at an event and this guy selling advertising for his magazine, tells me something AMAZING? Now please let me know if any of you have heard of it. He said its the state of the art Tshirt printer. You put the shirt in a frame and sent it through the printer and then the dryer. Its soft to the touch when its done. I asked was he talking about sublimation and he said NO. He also said the machines originally came from Isreal and were quite costly, but have come down to about $10,000. He also mentioned that screen printing may soon be a thing of the past. Am I way behind in hearing about this?? Or way ahead? Hope to hear from ya'll with some info. Thanks in advance


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## zachazow (Sep 22, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> It sounds like you are talking about direct to garment printing. This forum has a section dedicated to the technology, you you are probably better off asking them.
> 
> The DTG process is ideal for single or small quantity jobs. The cost per shirt seems to be the biggest issue. Another common requirement is the need of light colored shirts. Some vendors offer the ability to print over black or dark colored shirts, but it does not seem to be easy. I've read on this forum that fading may also be an issue with DTG.
> 
> fred


I could be wrong but isn't DTG the same thing as sublimation? I should know this because I work for an embroidery/screen printing company but I'm not up to speed on the printing side of the biz. If it is the same thing, I have a feeling Salisha is talking about something else.

-My First Post


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## zachazow (Sep 22, 2007)

Thanks for the quick response. So it's pretty safe to say that screen printing is the most reliable and has the best quality, then DTG, then Sublimation?


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## salisha (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks ya'll. Wow that is a cool description of sublimation. I think I actually get it now! I'm still not convinced that screen printing is better that DTG. I've never done either. But DTG sounds alot quicker with less mess and chemicals. It also looks like it takes up less space. I've since found out that you can dry the t-shirt with a heatpress when using the DTG method. There fore I wouldn't have to buy a dryer. Come on people, convince me otherwise. This should be a good debate for all you experts out there! Sincerely, Tha Rookie!


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

We have a Brother DTG printer and it does all shirts but Navy blue and black but does not do white ink.We love our machine and what it can do. You are right about the less mess. We do have screen printing also but people love it when they can get a full color image and no minimums

Just my opinion, do with it what you will


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## salisha (Jun 23, 2007)

Ok thanks everyone again. I'm not sure I get it. Are you saying you couldn't do a 25 shirt order with the DTG? Or what? Or just that its cheaper to do 25 shirts with the screen printing method over the printer? Does that make sense?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

salisha said:


> Am I way behind in hearing about this??


Way *way* behind.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

zachazow said:


> So it's pretty safe to say that screen printing is the most reliable and has the best quality, then DTG, then Sublimation?


In some ways dye sublimation is the best print method, it's just its limitations (polyester, light fabric) that get in the way.


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

ImageIt said:


> Each of the processes have their own strengths and weaknesses. Screen printing is the oldest and best established process, so is generally used as a benchmark. Strictly from a resolution standpoint, direct to garment and sublimation has much higher resolution. What screen printing lacks it resolution, it makes of for with superior ink quality and selection.
> 
> At the end of the day, all of the technologies can make a good looking shirt.
> 
> fred



dont forget the time factor.... lolol


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

ImageIt said:


> A 16 ounce bottle of FastINK3 ink costs $165. For the same price you can get 5 gallons of process color silk screen ink.
> 
> Direct to garment's ink cost for a white tee is about $.60 to $.80, but this depends on the design and ink saturation level. For black garments, the ink cost will come to about $2.00 to $3.00 per shirt. At 1/40th the cost, the cost for screen printing ink would be 10 cents.
> 
> fred




so fred

tell me how fast would it take you to print this job in a DTG printer vs a Auto?


lets say.... 36 shirts


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> tell me how fast would it take you to print this job in a DTG printer vs a Auto?
> lets say.... 36 shirts


Assuming you mean on a reddish/maroon shirt - 12" x 14"

DTG Eclipse - 75-80 minutes or less than an hour and a half
DTG HM-1 - 108 minutes - or about 2 hours
DTG Kiosk II - about 360 minutes or 6 hours

Ink cost - about $2

Now, on the automatic

Print 6 films
coat 6 screens
burn 6 screens
tape up pin holes on 6 screen
register 6 screens
print 36 shirts
break down press
clean 6 screens
reclaim 6 screens

Now, print 200 and the auto wins this one.

JMHO


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> Assuming those 36 shirts were black, i would charge $7.00 per shirt ($2.00 shirt + $5.00 per image). Full color image over a white mask plus the allowance for 1 more spot color ink.


No setup charge? What would the 6 screens cost you to setup (other than labor)? I consistently hear from screenprinters that $10 per color is a good "real money" cost to setup a screen, including emulsion, film cost and labor. You are saying (indirectly) that this job would take 4 hours to complete, you are paying $15 an hour for labor (I guess that there are no taxes or insurance costs involved?). 



> The key difference is that i'm paying a person a wage to make shirts, rather than paying for overpriced ink and to some extent equipment.


Good point! The printer doesn't have to be paid when it is not working, it doesn't require days off or show up late to work because it drank too much last night. 

In regards to overpriced ink, perhaps someday direct to garment ink will be as inexpensive as plastisol, but I doubt it. A typical white/light garment consumes less than 1 ml of ink to print, how much plastisol is used to print a full color 10" x 12" color print on a light shirt? 

Another thing to keep in mind, I can sell your $15 an hour employee a DTG and heat press for less than $13,000 and he can sell 36 shirts a day at $10 and make $6 per shirt and 1.8 times what he makes in a day now, but only working 6 hours (if he uses a Kiosk II). He has the luxury of working at home and setting his own schedule. Real world is that he would probalby sell the shirts for more like $15 each (as he can offer higher quality output with no setup fees and no extra charges for sizing the image to the garment). If he sells them for $15 each he makes over $10 a shirt or $360 per day - a pretty significant raise! Even if he is happy to pay the machiune off in a little over a year, he needs to only figure $50 per day in as the cost of the equipment (based on 13 months - 5 day work week). 

This is one of the big attractions of direct to garment. 

JMHO


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

> No, i'm sure i said black. Is black an issue?


Nope, black is not a issue, I just looked at the artwork and noticed that there was black in it and assumed that the background color I was seeing was the substrate. Not an issue, same ink costs, actually less on a blcak garment as I don't have to print black. 

I'm not here to argue which is better, both have their benefits, I think you are stretching it saying that you would take a wholesale order for 36 shirts with an automatic press, there are not a lot of screenprinters who would do that. I do see your concern over DTG now, however, you are wholesaling these prints. Let's suppose that your customer, the one you are wholesaling to, buys a DTG printer and starts printing them himself, with an HM-1 - takes him 2 hours, costs him maybe $4-5 per shirt with ink cost, saves him $72-108 in two hours. Assume that this customer is actually another apparel decorator, like an embroiderer, he can actually get these 36 shirts printed with little extra labor time during the day - as you do not have to sit and watch the printer print. AND, when his customer comes back next week and wants 3 more, he can do it with no hassles. 

Just pointing out that 36 shirts is a really low number to start a "my automatic can beat up your DTG" argument. No doubt, simple art like the image shown, large quantities like 100+ and an auto rocks. Short run, simple art or higher numbers of more complex art and DTG starts to make sense.

By the way, did I mention that the 2-6 hours I described were from the minute I had the artwork? What if your 1099 is away at a concert and won't be back until Monday? 

Just food for thought.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Would it not be beneficial to consider plastisol transfers for the long runs? Most of the time, you are only talking about an 8-10 second press. Thus, the production time is very short, no need for the screen printing equipment (press, exposure unit, film positive printer, screens, film, squeegees, washout booth, dip tank, pressure washer,...) and the space required to do it. Cost of the transfers are not that bad - around $3.50 based on the size mentioned above. Not to mention, you have to know the exact style and size of the shirt right at the time of screen printing. Plastisol transfers allow you to wait longer and most people always order a couple extra transfers to help when someone needs 1 extra shirt later on. That really sucks if it was screen printed.

There are a lot of ways to accomplish the same thing. Some things can be done on screen printing (high density, gels,...) and others on dtg (take a picture straight from a camera and print it on a t-shirt) depending on which machine you have. Depending on the design, some applications are better done with one application over another. The quantity is also important in which one to go with. This is something that every shop should consider when determining which way would be the best (i.e. less issues...more profit). The cost of labor, the cost of the space for production,...and other factors are included as well. Thus, each shop will have a different point or number when 1 application is better to use than another.

One of the biggest mistakes I think people make is just because they invested in a dtg machine, they feel the need to print all their shirts with it to get their ROI back on it. The dtg machine is your gateway - it helps you get more orders than a typical shop would get. You can do the short runs that most shops turn away or can't be competitive at. But, don't always assume you have to do the long runs on a machine you purchased in order to pay it back. If the job is more profitable for your shop doing it as a plastisol transfer or screen printing, then do it the most profitable way. Ultimately, the money is coming out of the same bank account. 

Just my thoughts.

Mark


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## PinkFreud (Mar 8, 2007)

Excellent points and yes it is debatable whether printing 36 shirts is more effective if done with screenprinting or DTG......HOWEVER
...would there be any debate as to which method is better if we were talking 36 shirts with 6 different designs???...I don't think so


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## PinkFreud (Mar 8, 2007)

....also since I am strictly a digital printer I contract out almost all orders over 12 shirts (unless very color intensive)...I have a reciprocal relationship with a local screen printer....I make a cut on large jobs and he in turn makes a cut on the small jobs which is better suited for my DTG


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

nice debate lol

I will read this when I get home 

BTW, what is the cost of a DTG Eclipse ??? Who makes it? What type of heads?
.

Be nice to see a sample, to see how it washes too.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

kriscad said:


> nice debate lol
> 
> I will read this when I get home
> 
> ...


Anybody care to give us an idea/ballpark figure of the cost of the Eclipse?


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## Robert72 (Aug 12, 2006)

I think the reccomended price for the Eclipse is about $30.000. I don't know if you can screw the sellers for a better price.

And I guess the heads are Epson 2400.


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