# New Batch Ironall Dark Is In



## infintech (Jul 16, 2008)

After months of research on this forum, I just officially joined last week. I Just got my new batch of ironall dark

Ironall dark, heat transfer paper, New Milford Photo, Infintech, dark transfer paper
 in from New Milford Photo. I waited over a month but they kept me up to date the whole time. The last batch was apparently problematic. Anyway did some tests, and I am glad to say that the new batch is fantastic. Soft and stretchy just like I hoped it would be. I am new to this transfer paper world but this stuff seemed very easy. I remember this stuff growing up in the 70’s and it used to feel like a hunk of plastic metled to your chest. The ironall dark seems smooth and soft, and its super easy to sue.


Very Happy,
Brian


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## dalessandro12 (May 27, 2008)

infintech said:


> After months of research on this forum, I just officially joined last week. I Just got my new batch of ironall dark
> 
> Ironall dark, heat transfer paper, New Milford Photo, Infintech, dark transfer paper
> in from New Milford Photo. I waited over a month but they kept me up to date the whole time. The last batch was apparently problematic. Anyway did some tests, and I am glad to say that the new batch is fantastic. Soft and stretchy just like I hoped it would be. I am new to this transfer paper world but this stuff seemed very easy. I remember this stuff growing up in the 70’s and it used to feel like a hunk of plastic metled to your chest. The ironall dark seems smooth and soft, and its super easy to sue.
> ...


Mine is finally on its way, can't wait


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Will you please post about the durability after the shirt has been through normal wash and dry cycles? The old version had wear problem that made the colors look faded when in fact it is part of the opaque is wasing off.

Thanks in advance.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Brian, I was supposed to ask this Q last night: "Ironall Dark Users: Is it working yet?" so thank you for posting this info, I'll let my friend know the discussion is "on" lol, she was waiting on my thread. 
I'm also going to wait on the wash test - to see if the problems have fully gone away. Thank you, Brian. 

Hey Daniel, will you also post your experience with the New Batch of Ironall Dark? Thanks alot.


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## Danger Mouse (May 12, 2008)

Will you please post pics? I wanted to see what this stuff looks like on a shirt. Thanks.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Danger Mouse said:


> Will you please post pics? I wanted to see what this stuff looks like on a shirt. Thanks.


Yes, please post some pictures of your results with the updated paper.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Also how do people know if they get the new batch or an old version.... lol

And the fading issue would be good to see if it's resolved or not.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

What is supposed to be the difference between the old and new. Is this still a Hyatt paper?


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

I would assume the new stuff would be smooth and flat rather then having a very heavy texture to it like the last batch I received. It was so heavy that the printer even on a heavy ink setting would not get in the grooves of it.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Hmm, I wasn't expecting any Change or Update to the paper, I thought the normal regular Ironall Dark ran into a poorly manufactured batch of paper, it happens sometimes. 

I thought we were waiting for that bad Ironall Dk to get off the shelves - and for the normal acting, regular, good old Ironall Dark to return, the stuff we used prior to that weird problem batch of paper.

Did I miss something? I didn't hear anyone talking about a manufacturing change at all.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Hmm, I wasn't expecting any Change or Update to the paper, I thought the normal regular Ironall Dark ran into a poorly manufactured batch of paper, it happens sometimes.
> 
> I thought we were waiting for that bad Ironall Dk to get off the shelves - and for the normal acting, regular, good old Ironall Dark to return, the stuff we used prior to that weird problem batch of paper.
> 
> Did I miss something? I didn't hear anyone talking about a manufacturing change at all.


Not that I know of, I think someone miss spoke when they implied that maybe.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I just checked with a major distributor and they are not aware of any new paper?? I would like to know the name of the manufature of this new paper. The problem we have in this industry is people call the same paper different anmes or they say they have aa new paper but what they mean is they are getting a new shipment of paper that may be better then the paper they had. I have had this happen.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Sorry folks. It was me who misused the wrong term. I said old version. What it should have been is old batch.

Did not mean to cause havoc.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Lnfortun said:


> Sorry folks. It was me who misused the wrong term. I said old version. What it should have been is old batch.
> 
> Did not mean to cause havoc.


Got us all excited.. We are always looking for the new big thing.. Thanks for updating it. Lou


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

[LEFT said:


> *badalou*[/left];328569]Got us all excited.. We are always looking for the new big thing.. Thanks for updating it. Lou


It would be nice if Hyatt did make some changes to improve durability. I know it is wishful thinking.

IMHO by far IronAll for dark has the best hand and stretchability in its category. So improved durability would be a big plus.​ 

By the way I tried WoW 7.1 and posted my result. Have not washed it yet and it is cracking hot off the press. It has very soft hand and the colors popped. All the toners were transferred. Not ready to jump in the band wagon until the price come down and cracking is minimized. That is with only one sample though.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

I agree IOFD is great for stretch and nothing comes close

If they would work on the other things it would be awesome


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## jlaperch (Feb 23, 2007)

John from new milford photo here...spoke with all 3 distributors and the manufacturer. The batch brian is referring to is the same ironall dark (hopefully) that first came out and everybody seemed to like. 

There is a new improved ironall dark on the horizon...i am hearing late august but the manufacturer kept saying that last time with ironall light...so don't hold your breath.

Will keep you posted on the status of the new product if and when it shows at my door

jlp


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

jlaperch said:


> John from new milford photo here...spoke with all 3 distributors and the manufacturer. The batch brian is referring to is the same ironall dark (hopefully) that first came out and everybody seemed to like.


Thanks, John. So the Ironall Dark is the good ol' stuff without any of the icky problems of recent times?


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## jlaperch (Feb 23, 2007)

Stuff going out the door now should be original good stuff.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Luis, would you be able to test this batch using a cutter, the batch i have in hand did not do well with the gx-24 cutter, there are some fibrous material that simply resist being cut for weeding. I was wondering if someone out there had a proven technique to cut this paper on a cutter like gx-24 ?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

franzzz1 said:


> Luis, would you be able to test this batch using a cutter, the batch i have in hand did not do well with the gx-24 cutter, there are some fibrous material that simply resist being cut for weeding. I was wondering if someone out there had a proven technique to cut this paper on a cutter like gx-24 ?


I have not tried it because a) Several people who tried had the same dilemma b) I ran out of transfer and c) I do not plan on buying any until improvement is made with durability.

Another thing that makes it hard to cut is it is not held securely on the backing which cause it to loosen and getting dragged while it is being cut.

I know Chani who is an expert with vinyl cutter finally gave up trying. There is a member who claims to be successful after I suggested what Specialty Graphics recommends for stretchy vinyl which is 60 degrees blade with 60 grams force. His ID is Gordo. He used GX-24. Try sending him a PM.


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## franzzz1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks, I think we're chatting on two threds !!! I just responded to you on the Cricut cutting mat...


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

franzzz1 said:


> Thanks, I think we're chatting on two threds !!! I just responded to you on the Cricut cutting mat...


The more the merrier. Yeah it is like having a chat volley.

Now go back to the other thread and ..... just kidding.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

infintech said:


> After months of research on this forum, I just officially joined last week. I Just got my new batch of ironall dark
> 
> Ironall dark, heat transfer paper, New Milford Photo, Infintech, dark transfer paper
> in from New Milford Photo. I waited over a month but they kept me up to date the whole time. The last batch was apparently problematic. Anyway did some tests, and I am glad to say that the new batch is fantastic. Soft and stretchy just like I hoped it would be. I am new to this transfer paper world but this stuff seemed very easy. I remember this stuff growing up in the 70’s and it used to feel like a hunk of plastic metled to your chest. The ironall dark seems smooth and soft, and its super easy to sue.
> ...


 
cool!

My batch early this year was HORRIBLE!!!
Bad batch!

...but On July 2nd I decided to give it another try....Well after 20 days my package finally arrived !!!
Now I am excited to try it....
Will post after first wash!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Brian, I was supposed to ask this Q last night: "Ironall Dark Users: Is it working yet?" so thank you for posting this info, I'll let my friend know the discussion is "on" lol, she was waiting on my thread.
> I'm also going to wait on the wash test - to see if the problems have fully gone away. Thank you, Brian.
> 
> Hey Daniel, will you also post your experience with the New Batch of Ironall Dark? Thanks alot.


 
LOL!!!

Friend!

hey kelly!
Mine came in today!!!!...well, it is now 4:30am ...so technically it came in yesterday!
I ordered it on July 2nd and , wow, it sure took forever to get here.....now I know why John waited....Maybe I got this new batch of good stuff!! I hope so!

I need to go fire up my new press and do some tests!

Keep you informed.....


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

jlaperch said:


> Stuff going out the door now should be original good stuff.


So , John........does this mean that the paper that I received from you today is the original "good stuff" ??,,,,not the "bad batch"?

I ordered the sample pack of Ironall dark on July 2nd....and didn't receive it...then I called and you said you would get it right in the mail....and you did! thanks! (you are always helpful!)
anyway.....
The package was postmarked July 21st....So.....which ironall dark is this..??
(The good stuff I hope)


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## jlaperch (Feb 23, 2007)

stuff i sent is original good stuff ...new stuff will improve upon that...let me know

john


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I heard this awhile back that paper is made on a large roll then cut. I am talking about width not length. So the paper is cut in thirds the 2 end cuts are not as good as the center cut. Meaning the chemicals are better in the middel then the sides. I wonder if this is true?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Hmmm! That is interesting. Anything is possible.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

badalou said:


> I heard this awhile back that paper is made on a large roll then cut. I am talking about width not length. So the paper is cut in thirds the 2 end cuts are not as good as the center cut. Meaning the chemicals are better in the middel then the sides. I wonder if this is true?


If this is true , then they SHOULD NOT sell the "end cuts"!!!
That would be BAD business in my H opinion....and also hurting themselves!!


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## jlaperch (Feb 23, 2007)

i wouldn't doubt that...the manufacturers of this paper...are rookies in a lot of ways...good ideas ...inconsistent execution


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I think defective two thirds of the large roll were sold to forum members and the good stuff wind up somewhere else (just kidding right??). Most of the problems were reported in the forums. Unless I missed the post(s) that said otherwise.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

The cutting into 3 sheets is interesting.... wouldn't that imply every pack is sold with 2 inferior sheets and 1 good sheet, on average. But I didn't have any issues with sheets in my past orders... they all seemed, and acted, the same to me. Is this a new, and applying to that last batch sold that gave the headaches?

Okay, any Ironall Dark users, will you please let us know if you have consistant results from sheet to sheet?


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> The cutting into 3 sheets is interesting.... wouldn't that imply every pack is sold with 2 inferior sheets and 1 good sheet, on average. But I didn't have any issues with sheets in my past orders... they all seemed, and acted, the same to me. Is this a new, and applying to that last batch sold that gave the headaches?
> 
> Okay, any Ironall Dark users, will you please let us know if you have consistant results from sheet to sheet?


 
Will do!

I have a pack from COASTAL that I got in about 1 1/2 weeks ago.
AND
A sample pack that I just received yesterday from John at NewMilford.

I hope to test this weekend!!!


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> The cutting into 3 sheets is interesting.... wouldn't that imply every pack is sold with 2 inferior sheets and 1 good sheet, on average. But I didn't have any issues with sheets in my past orders... they all seemed, and acted, the same to me. Is this a new, and applying to that last batch sold that gave the headaches?
> 
> Okay, any Ironall Dark users, will you please let us know if you have consistant results from sheet to sheet?


"IF" it was cut I'm pretty sure each pack would be from the same section of the roll.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

R1, like the whole pack would be centers, or 3 side-by-side would end up in one?


Thank you, MrsB, you're awesome... thanks for all the work you put into this stuff, as a user of the paper, I really appreciate it. 

_*Editted: Sorry, R1, I called you Terry, my apologies, sir._


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> Thank you, MrsB, you're awesome... thanks for all the work you put into this stuff, as a user of the paper, I really appreciate it.


 
 thanks KELLY!

I just hope to be 1/2 as helpful as you all have been to me!!!!

will let everyone know how the tests go and hope to post some picts!

I really hope that John at Newmilford was right and that I received the "new/original" IAFD !!!!
I so want it to work!!!!!!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

please remind me if I forget!!!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Hello Asha... 

Not that I think you forgot us.. lol.. just wondering if you had a chance to use any of that new batch of Ironall Dark yet? 

Keep that coffee pot warm!


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## jazpaps (Nov 3, 2007)

I do dog caricatures for breed clubs. Many of the dogs are white with another color - think dalmation.. Will the Iron All for darks let me print a black and white dalmation on a dark red t? Does it have an opaque white?

thanks


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

jazpaps said:


> I do dog caricatures for breed clubs. Many of the dogs are white with another color - think dalmation.. Will the Iron All for darks let me print a black and white dalmation on a dark red t? Does it have an opaque white?
> 
> thanks


Hi Gina, 

Think of the Ironall Dark (opaque paper) as a regular white sheet of paper you will print on. Anything you can print on a white sheet of paper, you can print on Ironall Dark. The white background of the Ironall product is the white in your design.

But, the excess will need to be trimmed away. 

PS: Red is my least favorite color to press an opaque onto, shivers me timbers just thinking of it. Be careful not to over cook your design, the paper loses it's opaque qualities when it is over done, and don't be too afraid of the darker red you will see when you are done pressing, it will fade back to the normal color in time. At least, it usually does. I always hold my breath, lol, but haven't been let down yet. Okay, with that, I am finished..


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Where is the best place to get the new batch Ironall for Dark in a sample pack? Has anyone done a comparison with the alpha gold for darks ? Does anyone thats has used the Alpha Gold like the feel of it ? I love the feel of the JPSS but I only see good use for it on white. Does anyone have any other color Ts that the colors don't interfere with the colors on the JPSS ?


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

DTFuqua said:


> Where is the best place to get the new batch Ironall for Dark in a sample pack? Has anyone done a comparison with the alpha gold for darks ? Does anyone thats has used the Alpha Gold like the feel of it ? I love the feel of the JPSS but I only see good use for it on white. Does anyone have any other color Ts that the colors don't interfere with the colors on the JPSS ?


I got a bad batch of Ironall for Darks and was happy with the stretch and the hand (feel) but the color faded and the surface was uneven to where the printer would not print well on it. 
I then tried Alpha Gold for Darks and it's great for color retention and stretches too, but not as much as Ironall for Darks and also has a heavier hand (feel) to it. 

I just recently found out that t-****supplies has the same paper as Alpha For Darks for 120.00 cheaper too... I was a little upset when I learned this though...  

I bought 11x17 for 260.00 from alpha and the same thing is 150.00 elsewhere. 

Ya I'm not too happy about someone taking advantage of people with a markup like that.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

DTFuqua said:


> Where is the best place to get the new batch Ironall for Dark in a sample pack? Has anyone done a comparison with the alpha gold for darks ? Does anyone thats has used the Alpha Gold like the feel of it ? I love the feel of the JPSS but I only see good use for it on white. Does anyone have any other color Ts that the colors don't interfere with the colors on the JPSS ?


New Milford Photo has the new batch. The new batch is the same as the Ironall for dark when it was first introduced in the market. I have tried Ironall for dark printed with both inkjet ink and laser laser toner. The inkjet version has washed out color look and the laser was vibrant. Both have wear issue after few washes that made the color looked faded. It has softer hand than most opaque transfer paper. I tried Alpha Gold. On the first attempt the opaque did not stick to the shirt and was somewhat translucent. I have to drastically lower all the setting values to make the transfer stay on the shirt. I was disappointed with the hand of the pressed opaque. It felt like a raincoat. It had good color retention though. I have not washed the shirt enough to tell if it will crack eventually. After having tried several opaque with same heavy hand my gut feeling is it will crack eventually.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Here are some pics I just took of my testing so far


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hello Everyone,

It was requested that we (TSS) review this post...

As it happens and has been mentioned, there are a lot of good ideas that don't always have the quality control that we would like to see in the papers that are available. As far as the end cuts of a roll being "worse" then the center cuts, well, if from a realizable MFG that is not the case. However, at times, some "inventors" come up w/ great ideas and decide to outsource the coating of heat transfer papers, this results in inconsistent paper, as many have experienced w/ the "IronAll Dark." (*Please note - we love that paper when it performs, but consistency has always been an issue.) We have discussed this w/ the MFG, which is not Hyatt - FYI, and they seem to be getting the QA under control (at times, we would receive test samples that needed to be pre-treated in order to get a consistent image...not something anyone wants.) We will continue testing the pre-launch samples provided, and post our internal lab testing.

That said, there are a few processes for coating the specialty papers that are used in heat transfers. Please note, these same coating machines are used to create 3Ms sand paper - so it is not a very easy process and why it is important to ensure your paper is sent as expected...not worrying about batch numbers and such. A good MFG will always be consistent, but then again, the new guys that are trying to make leaps in offering better paper...well, hats off to them, and we, as you, will continue to test the new results.

Remember, there are only a handful of MFGs for heat transfer paper...as many have expressed, they (papers) are marketed under a variety of names.

As always, feel free to let us know what you think and what can be improved, if you would like certain tests posted, we will be happy to do so.

Thanks,
Mike


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the post, Mike. 



tshirtsupplies said:


> "IronAll Dark." (*Please note - we love that paper when it performs, but consistency has always been an issue.)


Me, too. That is how I feel about Ironall Dark. Love it. Mike, is there another paper that is similar or a good substitute for Ironall Dark? Alot of folks have turned to the JetOpaque / JetWear / Alpha Gold. I've been sitting tight, waiting on the Ironall Dark to return to good quality. Would you recommend that paper as the next best thing?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks ,Mike I appreciate your help. I know a lot of people on the froums will benefit from your post. ..... JB


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hello Kelly,

Unfortunately, at this time, there are just the current choices available.....yes, we have heard that new dark products are being developed, but until they are ready and tested....the products that are available are what is available.

Our "most wanted" request is a self-weeding dark paper, much like the ImageClip Paper....if the chemist ever get that paper perfected, it will make all of our lives much happier.

Thanks,
Mike


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Mike is the image clip paper really self weeding or is it just so light you can't see it on lights? (like JPSS)


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hey R1,

Yes, the ImageClip is self weeding...it is quite an interesting process, although it is only available for Laser.

It is a 2-step process, but when you have everything (heat, pressure, etc.) dialed-in...it is really an amazing product. We have worked w/ a few heat press MFGs to get this to work....

Basically, on the 1st step, you transfer the toner to be committed to the substrate. On the 2nd step, that is all that is transferred...after a few attempts, we have shown many end users how this product can be effective.

But, yes, if done correctly, this product on a white (or very light substrate) does self-weed....we have been a fan for a few years...it takes some practice, but once it is dialed in....ImageClip is an amazing product.

Regards,
Mike


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

A self weeding dark? I had to read that twice! 

Thank you, Mike. I guess what I am really asking is: if you love Ironall Dark but can't use it, what would you use instead? Is the Jet Opaque the next best choice in your opinion, or something else? Thanks a million.


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes, the "IronAll" Dark does show much promise, it just needs to prove it can be consistent....if they reach consistent levels, it is an awesome paper.

That said, at the moment, the JetWear Dark/Jet Opaque is in our opinion the most viable/consistent choice. Both are made by Neenah, which offer the comfort of the backing of a major (US) company.

Kelly, self-weeding dark, it has been on our wish list fr many years...we hope the science guys can figure it out, because it will be a killer option.

Regards,
Mike


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks again Mike for all the insight... it's awesome!


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

An idea occurred to my but I'm not qualified to try it. I wonder if someone could take a JPSS and then "paint" a white layer on it after the printer does its thing? maybe not a complete white layer but a little past the outline of the needed to be white areas inside the picture? Anyone willing to try it ?


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

tshirtsupplies said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> It was requested that we (TSS) review this post...
> 
> ...


Mike, Lou here. The info on the end cuts was posted by me as it came directly from a supplier,which we both know. It was given to me several years ago when this distributor was having problems. So when it comes from the source then I believed it. Thanks for clearing it up. Lou


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

DTFuqua said:


> An idea occurred to my but I'm not qualified to try it. I wonder if someone could take a JPSS and then "paint" a white layer on it after the printer does its thing? maybe not a complete white layer but a little past the outline of the needed to be white areas inside the picture? Anyone willing to try it ?


 Terry, you don't print a white layer. You leave the area white which is the color of the transfer and the shirt which may be white becomes the color. As noted you do not have white as a color ink. If I am to understand your idea. lou


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't think you understand, at least I hope not cause that would make it a DUMB question. What I'm talking about is to use regular Jet Pro Soft Stretch on dark and colored shirts. Not on or anything to do with opaque. Something like the screen printers and DTG talk about. I believe they use a layer of white ink/paint/dye underneath the colors to get the white background. I thought maybe do that, just not all the way to the outer edge so there wouldn't be the white outline like with the opaque transfers. just run the transfer through the printer as normal and then paint/smear/dab the white layer on the transfer print for the background color. Use like a halogen light to dry the white if need be just a little. I don't know if the white would make colors run or what. Maybe?


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Find a printer that prints white and try it... but good luck finding one.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> I don't think you understand, at least I hope not cause that would make it a DUMB question. What I'm talking about is to use regular Jet Pro Soft Stretch on dark and colored shirts. Not on or anything to do with opaque. Something like the screen printers and DTG talk about. I believe they use a layer of white ink/paint/dye underneath the colors to get the white background.


So if I understand this more now, Terry, what you mean is to print the image, paint a product on the printed image to produce a white background, like a "first layer" of white, and then transfer the paint and JPSS to the shirt? Yes?

So that would put a paint layer "between" the shirt fabric and the polymer coating of the JPSS. That is where I see the hitch coming in. You will need a paint that will bond via heat to the shirt, while at the same time, the polymer on the JPSS bonds to the paint, all at 375* with alot of pressure on everything at once.

I know I've seen a discussion very similar to this in the past. Hang on, okay I found the thread. There were alot of us batting around ideas similar to yours, maybe you will like to read this one, too. Prometheus' solution is about the funniest. He suggested "white out" as that white layer you are mentioning.  I suggested a new formulation of inks, inks that are themselves "opaque", but that would require a re-designed printer to handle opaque ink, we thought. Anyway, here is the thread, it is an interesting read, many thoughts and ideas in there... maybe you'd like to join in the discussion over here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t47145.html#post278836


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

But aren't the white inks for the DTGs like/similar to inkjet inks. I know the dtgs have problems with clogs with the white inks but couldn't the white just be painted into the "blank" spaces where the conventional transfers would use the white of the shirt or does it need to have a complete coverage to let the rest of the colors to look natural? Thats what I thought the pigment inks were for, to keep their color instead of mixing with the fabric color .
Almost forgot, what about the "new batch of iron all darks"? Any cheap samples to be had and can we be sure if we order some that we will get the good stuff


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> But aren't the white inks for the DTGs like/similar to inkjet inks. I know the dtgs have problems with clogs with the white inks


A few DTGer's chime in the thread, about the white inks they use. I haven't read that thread thru in a while, but I think I remember it's a good read.



> but couldn't the white just be painted into the "blank" spaces where the conventional transfers would use the white of the shirt or does it need to have a complete coverage to let the rest of the colors to look natural?


I think you'd need to provide complete white coverage because whereever the color of the shirt is, that will interact with the color of the design. If you are truly looking to have a design look the "same" on a dark shirt as a white shirt, you'll need to provide a white background in the entire design area, like the white shirt does.

Another thing to test, imo, is would the JPSS coating adhere to paint, or white dtg ink? 

I think one of the situations we talked about in the other thread was would dtg ink possibly "uncure" in the second press, the one that applies the JPSS.



> Thats what I thought the pigment inks were for, to keep their color instead of mixing with the fabric color .


Some of the things pigment inks provide are water resistance, and in cases like photographs better color, vibrancy and shadows. 

One thing from using pink shirts, and I think others can agree, when transferring a design using a light paper, with pigment ink, onto a shirt that is a light color - the color of the shirt tints the design colors, how much depends on the design and color of the shirt.

That's usually a popular question on the forum -- regarding shirt color and papers for lights:
- How light is light (does it have to be white to look right/good?) 
- How dark can I go before my design doesn't look good. 
I always say, "test" to see if you like it, but when you are talking "dark shirts" like you are in your post, dark shirts will overwhelm the lighter colors in the design and alter most of the rest, if not all.. depending on how dark the color is in the design. 

Okay, where are your thoughts at Terry? One thing, tho, is I think we should move over to the other thread with anyone else who wants to chime in, to stay on topic in that and this thread.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

You actually put all the questions and possibilities I can think to try in one spot . I seem to remember a pink shirt my wife bought a few years ago and like you said, it looked way different than the picture was supposed to. I am beginning to think the best way for someone like myself will need to get stock transfers as a regular product for all colors and just put the photos only on whites.I think my next investment(been planing this anyway)will be a cutter for heat press vinyl and purchase the right art and maybe start a sign company too. I hate that I can't make a dark shirt like I can a white one. Thank you for your patience BUT no one still hasn't said anything about the IRON ALL FOR DARKS which I have continually asked about which is the reason I posted in this thread to start with and would still like to know the answer. Where can I get some affordable (CHEAP) samples and where can I purchase some and be sure its the correct formulation if it will do what I want it to do. I say this because some people seem to like the alpha gold for darks but I would hesitate to use it myself and only after showing a sample to anyone that just had to have a picture on a dark shirt. They really make the shirt feel like plastic to me and I'm hoping the iron all will be a LOT lighter to the touch. 
Wow. sorry about the rant .,


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

You can call just about any place that offers it and request a sample. Jump off the couch and order a sample!
Then you will answer your own question since you don't want to try the next best thing that people are using.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> You actually put all the questions and possibilities I can think to try in one spot . I seem to remember a pink shirt my wife bought a few years ago and like you said, it looked way different than the picture was supposed to. I am beginning to think the best way for someone like myself will need to get stock transfers as a regular product for all colors and just put the photos only on whites.I think my next investment(been planing this anyway)will be a cutter for heat press vinyl and purchase the right art and maybe start a sign company too. I hate that I can't make a dark shirt like I can a white one. Thank you for your patience


I agree with you, I have recently purchased a used cutter for darks shirts. I am also looking at rhinestones for dark shirts. I am leaving transfers to white shirts, unless someone really wants transfer work on dark, then I'll provide that, hopefully with good Ironall Dark....



> BUT no one still hasn't said anything about the IRON ALL FOR DARKS which I have continually asked about which is the reason I posted in this thread to start with and would still like to know the answer. Where can I get some affordable (CHEAP) samples and where can I purchase some and be sure its the correct formulation if it will do what I want it to do. I say this because some people seem to like the alpha gold for darks but I would hesitate to use it myself and only after showing a sample to anyone that just had to have a picture on a dark shirt. They really make the shirt feel like plastic to me and I'm hoping the iron all will be a LOT lighter to the touch. Wow. sorry about the rant .,


Which brings me to why I don't address the Ironall Dark part of your posts. 

I still have stock of the good stuff, and I am not purchasing it again until word on the street is that we are back to good again. I have no reviews of the current stock to offer you.


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## dalessandro12 (May 27, 2008)

So I received 100 sheets from John at NMP about two weeks ago. Last night I printed and noticed that the blacks were very faded (looked flaked off but isn't). I printed the same image on JPSS and didn't have any issues, which lead me to the paper. 

John, did I receive a bad batch of paper? You had mentioned that my order was delayed because you were waiting for a good batch, could I have mistakenly received the bad batch? 

I also just ordered 11X17 Iron All Dark from you, so Im concerned that I will experience the same issues with that. 

Please advise.


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hello All,

We have a a DTG printer used to compare to the papers that are available, and yes, with some work you can get a nice print on a dark shirt.

However, we have been informed that one of our customers has been able to produce great results w/ laser prints...I am awaiting samples of the finished product. If it works, we will post how to accomplish w/ the papers currently available on the market.

Another tip, w/ IronAll Dark, before loading it into your printer, take an index card and go over the surface....the "extra" coating comes right off and the product is usually good to go. At least, that is what we have found in testing...

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM and whether we have the product or not, we would like to help find a workable solution for you...the digital media is really advancing and as I'm sure you all know, according to PrintWear, etc., is really breaking even on Screen Printing.

Thanks,
Mike


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

tshirtsupplies said:


> Another tip, w/ IronAll Dark, before loading it into your printer, take an index card and go over the surface....the "extra" coating comes right off and the product is usually good to go. At least, that is what we have found in testing...


Hi Mike,

What does this do to change the paper or the outcome? I am intrigued. 

Thanks,


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm not Mike , but the extra coating is a little loose and will flake off taking ink applied with it and will leave places in your design with no ink(where it should be), by scraping you are removing the loose stuff and your print will adhere to the garment with no flaking off. .... JB


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I know your not Mike! lol, you're funny. I've never experienced the mysterious flaking (lucky with good batches each time I suppose.) Is it an obvious amount of extra flaky parts on top of the paper? I could only imagine literally scrapping the entire top layer off the paper. Maybe if I had flaking, it would make more sense to me... Dang. Why can't alllll batches just be good? Lol...


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

All things man made can't be perfect. This being said I agree with you.In a perfect world this would be the case. ....JB


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

At certain batches we have seen visible overlay of coating, is non-treated, it would produce blind spots on your transfer. By taking the step to clear the overlay, you have a good transfer sheet w/o having to worry about blotching, etc.

Quick reply, but I hop it helps....


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

dalessandro12 said:


> So I received 100 sheets from John at NMP about two weeks ago. Last night I printed and noticed that the blacks were very faded (looked flaked off but isn't). I printed the same image on JPSS and didn't have any issues, which lead me to the paper.
> 
> John, did I receive a bad batch of paper? You had mentioned that my order was delayed because you were waiting for a good batch, could I have mistakenly received the bad batch?
> 
> ...


It was my understanding that the bad batch was not a fading issue, ( believed that to just be the way it is) I thought it had to do with the texture on the surface. The shipment I received had a very rough or grainy texture to it, so much so that the printer did not print in the valley's of the texture. 

I assumed that the fading issue was just normal for this paper? 

I'm I wrong?


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

I did get fading with Ironall for lights, but I don't have fading issues with Ironall Dark. It holds up great. I use Durabrite ink, and I don't have color shifting either. I think I have been just slipping through - being very lucky. No flakes, no fading, no color shirting, no cracking. It's no wonder I love Ironall Dark so much, and others are less impressed.


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hey R1,

Well, TSS does not carry this product for a reason....we are awaiting a few consistent batches prior to saying it is good to go.

But, what we are saying, is if you have batch of this product, your results might improve by self-flaking the overcoat.

As we have only tested this product, we can only offer what was found in our test lab...we are glad to try anything to get great results...so, if you have any suggestions on testing, we would be happy to post the results

-Mike


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Girlzndollz said:


> I did get fading with Ironall for lights, but I don't have fading issues with Ironall Dark. It holds up great. I use Durabrite ink, and I don't have color shifting either. I think I have been just slipping through - being very lucky. No flakes, no fading, no color shirting, no cracking. It's no wonder I love Ironall Dark so much, and others are less impressed.


Well that keeps me hoping they will figure out the issues soon then...  if it worked once then it should be easy to get it to work again.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Would the loose overcoat be loose enough that a lint remover roller will pick it up?


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Thank you again Kelly. Your answer brought up/back one more question. Not asking you to get alpha gold for darks but why don't you recommend transfers for dark if you have the good iron all.Does it have the plastic y feel like I described with the alpha papers? And just in case, have you ever felt anything with the alpha for darks on it and if so, an opinion? Or anyone else with an opinion of the alpha darks transfer .Again, thank you.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> Thank you again Kelly. Your answer brought up/back one more question. Not asking you to get alpha gold for darks but why don't you recommend transfers for dark if you have the good iron all.Does it have the plastic y feel like I described with the alpha papers? And just in case, have you ever felt anything with the alpha for darks on it and if so, an opinion? Or anyone else with an opinion of the alpha darks transfer .Again, thank you.


 
Np, before the bad batch of Ironall Dark hit the shelves, I did suggest it as a great paper for darks.

For my use: For lights = JPSS, For darks = Ironall Dark. I do love Ironall Dark, I've stated that throughout my posts. The hand is not bad, the color retention is great, it does not crack = that's been my own experience with it.

Once Ironall Dark is back on track, I'd be happy to recommend that paper again. But I just can't recommend a paper someone can't go buy today and use. I have to really believe in a product to suggest someone try it, and until the word is clear and certain that Ironall Dark is good again, I won't place my order, nor can I suggest someone else place one.

I only hesitate on the Alpha Gold because last year, I requested a sample pack from Alpha, and the sample they sent on fabric cracked to pieces when I stretched it. I tossed the envelope in the garbage, along with the sample papers. I thought I wasn't interested in anything in there. 

I used Ironall and Ironall Dark, until JPSS hit the shelves. I switched my lights to JPSS and never looked back.

I bought my cutter after the Ironall Dark hit that nasty stretch of road. I will use Ironall Dark again, once it's good again, but I introduced the cutter into my line up because I can't rely solely on a product for dark shirts that has inconsistant quality. Plus, there are applications for vinyl that are totally different from those for Ironall Dark. I'm also seriously considering rhinestones as an additional decoration for darks. Plastisols are in the running as well. There's nothing about a plastisol that I've seen that I don't like. Variety is the $pice of life.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

DTFuqua said:


> Thank you again Kelly. Your answer brought up/back one more question. Not asking you to get alpha gold for darks but why don't you recommend transfers for dark if you have the good iron all.Does it have the plastic y feel like I described with the alpha papers? And just in case, have you ever felt anything with the alpha for darks on it and if so, an opinion? Or anyone else with an opinion of the alpha darks transfer .Again, thank you.


I am not Kelly. Since you said anyone so I responded. Please read the post #44 in this thread. I mentioned what I think about Alpha Gold in that post.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Actually Louis, that was the first real post I did read about the alpha gold and thank you for it .I feel slightly more generous towards alpha gold but not much. I've spent 10 hour days in a raincoat and that is the only reason for my "generosity" to that brand of transfer paper/plastic. I guess what I should have asked is, do many people find that an acceptable product? I really don't like it but feel that maybe I should get some and keep on hand but don't want to buy enough to get a lower price(not that I've even looked for cheap price so far). This is something I'm gonna have to figure out for myself I recon since it is a very subjective decision. I think I'm gonna get a job so I can hurry up and get a vinyl cutter for heat press vinyl to use on dark and colored shirts so I'll have a product that I won't be hesitant about recommending. And Kelly I thank you again and want you to know I always read your post on any thread I happen to run into it on. Sorry about the ranting/rambling but I guess I just get started sometimes.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

DTFuqua said:


> Actually Louis, that was the first real post I did read about the alpha gold and thank you for it .I feel slightly more generous towards alpha gold but not much. I've spent 10 hour days in a raincoat and that is the only reason for my "generosity" to that brand of transfer paper/plastic. I guess what I should have asked is, do many people find that an acceptable product? I really don't like it but feel that maybe I should get some and keep on hand but don't want to buy enough to get a lower price(not that I've even looked for cheap price so far). This is something I'm gonna have to figure out for myself I recon since it is a very subjective decision. I think I'm gonna get a job so I can hurry up and get a vinyl cutter for heat press vinyl to use on dark and colored shirts so I'll have a product that I won't be hesitant about recommending. And Kelly I thank you again and want you to know I always read your post on any thread I happen to run into it on. Sorry about the ranting/rambling but I guess I just get started sometimes.


I'm not sure if you have seen my post on it, but I have done a little over 200 shirts now with it and have not had one complaint. Most people don't have a clue until you mention something to them about it. I have had a few larger jobs and I let them decide on what they like. 

I wear a few shirts I have done with it and I don't have a problem with it either. 

The only way to know for yourself is give it a try.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

R1. I do remember you post and was a little put off by your remark" jump off the couch and order a sample"......"since you don't want to try the next best thing". I thought I was obvious that I had tried the alpha gold and I am tired of buying sample packs that cost more than the transfers would if I knew exactly what to order to start with from people that seem to sound an awful lot like used car sales men. Its not because I'm too cheap ( even though I am pretty cheap) to spend the money on a phone call, I have flat rate calling (VoIP). Its just that I have found most people on here to be more trustworthy than sales people.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Sorry about that, I didn't mean it in a bad way lol

I have tried a bunch and funny how some of them under different names are the same paper.... lol

So imo you have a choice right now between finding a good batch of Ironall or Jetwear for darks (Same paper as Alpha but half the price)


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I have spent a lot of money on samples so far. It is my way of finding out what is out there first hand and not rely on second hand info. Pardon the expression I do rely on second hand info for leads about the product. That is how I make a judgement call whether to go for the product or not. I try to be honest about my findings and if I find the product is not up to my expectation I will post it too. I just don't want to find out further down the road the product I sold failed and the customer just did not bother to report it. Word gets around fast.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Lnfortun said:


> I have spent a lot of money on samples so far. It is my way of finding out what is out there first hand and not rely on second hand info. Pardon the expression I do rely on second hand info for leads about the product. That is how I make a judgement call whether to go for the product or not. I try to be honest about my findings and if I find the product is not up to my expectation I will post it too. I just don't want to find out further down the road the product I sold failed and the customer just did not bother to report it. Word gets around fast.


I wish more people would be honest about their findings too, I commend you for that. With all due respect to other members here, it seems some of them have more interest in pimping brands and vendors rather then what's best for all of us. There is a lot of hidden info about this business that some choose to keep to themselves, while that is their decision, I would rather share my findings as well to help others from getting taken advantage of as some of have been...... more to come when I finish up the info.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I agree with you 100%. As a matter of fact I am working on a home brewed process for dark shirts. If it works I surely will post it. I just got the printer today I will be using it for this experiment and ink will be coming next week. I almost lost the printer though. Fedex delivered it to the wrong house. I thank GOD I got good neighbors.


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## R1Lover (Jun 7, 2008)

Lnfortun said:


> I agree with you 100%. As a matter of fact I am working on a home brewed process for dark shirts. If it works I surely will post it. I just got the printer today I will be using it for this experiment and ink will be coming next week. I almost lost the printer though. Fedex delivered it to the wrong house. I thank GOD I got good neighbors.


That's great news, Can't wait to see how it goes.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

DTFuqua said:


> And Kelly I thank you again and want you to know I always read your post on any thread I happen to run into it on. Sorry about the ranting/rambling but I guess I just get started sometimes.


No worries, Terry, I completely understand where you are coming from. When you just want to make a good product, and buy the right product, and get working instead of researching - it can be really frustrating. I've been there, and would like to add, the whole Ironall Dark bad batch has had me biting my nails since it started. But no worries, okay, and thank you for the kind words, I do really appreciate them.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Lnfortun said:


> I agree with you 100%. As a matter of fact I am working on a home brewed process for dark shirts. If it works I surely will post it. I just got the printer today I will be using it for this experiment and ink will be coming next week. I almost lost the printer though. Fedex delivered it to the wrong house. I thank GOD I got good neighbors.


Okay mad scientist, at it again... whoo hoooo.. haha. Luis, as always, best of luck and thank you for trying things out for us! Can I ask if it's a laser process or inkjet? (pls say inkjet, pls say inkjet - I just don't want yet another piece of equipment I'll want to own- lol!) Okay, will wait on your word.. and best of luck with it!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Girlzndollz said:


> Okay mad scientist, at it again... whoo hoooo.. haha. Luis, as always, best of luck and thank you for trying things out for us! Can I ask if it's a laser process or inkjet? (pls say inkjet, pls say inkjet - I just don't want yet another piece of equipment I'll want to own- lol!) Okay, will wait on your word.. and best of luck with it!


Kelly,

It would be a mix. I have different kinds of transfer papers at hand I will be trying. Whatever the best combo that works. Then I will have a website for it that asks for $25.00 donations for my effort just like that member who made a DIYDTG for $150.00. How about them apples. Yeah right!!

I have tried several different approach but this I got a gut feeling it is going to work. At least in my dreams for now. *Over and out*. Almost midnight here in this parts. I am leaving at 3:00AM for ISS trade show in Schaumburg, IL. The Magic Touch reps will be there.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Lnfortun said:


> Kelly,
> 
> It would be a mix. I have different kinds of transfer papers at hand I will be trying. Whatever the best combo that works. Then I will have a website for it that asks for $25.00 donations for my effort just like that member who made a DIYDTG for $150.00. How about them apples. Yeah right!!


 
Hahahahaa, good one!! lol.. 



Lnfortun said:


> I have tried several different approach but this I got a gut feeling it is going to work. At least in my dreams for now. *Over and out*. Almost midnight here in this parts. I am leaving at 3:00AM for ISS trade show in Schaumburg, IL. The Magic Touch reps will be there.


Okay, sounds good... hope it goes the way you see it. Hey, have a great time at the show. Becareful driving on that little bit of sleep. See you when you come back. Have a great time there!


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hey Luis,

It would be great if you can provide an update on the Magic Touch paper...it is a great concept and we would love to get some end-user feedback instead of just the Account Reps.

Have Fun @ ISS.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I am back alive and well. It was not the lack of sleep that bothered me. Lots of coffee took care of that. We had a close call though on our way back. I hit something hard on the interstate and punctured the side wall of the right front tire. It started lossing air as we are getting close to Nebraska. Thank GOD we were able to get home without any more problem. Cost me $200.00 to replace a couple of tires. Had to buy two to keep the tires matched since the new ones are different design and brand.

Now on to the show. The first stop was The Magic Touch booth. I meet with Will Torres. Very nice person. I watched as samples are being pressed. It did not take long to press the transfers because the sheets were already pre printed. Will gave me five of the mini shirts pressed with Wow 7.1. The first thing I checked is cracking. All the samples survived my cracking test. The shirts have to be stretched really hard to be able to see verctical white fine lines of the shirt knit. It goes back to normal when released. I did not see any gray film or white speckles that some user are experiencing. I would consider using Wow 7.1 but the price becomes a show stopper.

There are few transfer vendors that were there last year and pretty much sells the same products that I have already tried. So I did not bother stopping in those booths. Sorry I did not anything new transfer paper wise especially opaque except Wow 7.1 and Imprintables ovinyl opaque. I did stop by Imprintables booth. I get to see and touch the vinyl opaque that is designed for eco solvent ink. The material is very nice, very thin, vibrant colors, very soft hand and stretches way better than IronAll for dark. The ink stretches with the opaque. So cracking is not an issue. It has smooth surface with screen print appearance. Without actually doing wash test with the opaque I think it is a viable product. I was told it will only work with eco solvent ink though. Another thing is it cost about in the same neighborhood as Wow 7.1. I was told it is $17.00/yard. Priceeeeyyyy!. 

Hey Mike, do you know if eco solvent will work with regular inkjet printer like C88? I have a thread about Wow 7.1. I don't know if you have seen it. Here is the link: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t55237.html


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

Hey Luis,

Thanks for the update and most important, your trip survival...

That said, I agree Magic Touch has something for a niche market, but at $5/item...it is a tad bit expensive...but we will continue to monitor this product. We hope it turns out well in the future...just as w/ the "Iron All" paper we are waiting to see about QA...not just the wow factor. 

As for eco solvent inks, forgive me, but I know I have just received info on this, but cannot recall off the top of my head...I'll get back to you in shortly.

Our supplier is scheduled to meet w/ Neenah in the upcoming week, hopefully, we will get some more answers on where the HT industry is headed and making everyone's life a bit easier.

Regards,
Mike


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

tshirtsupplies said:


> Hey Luis,
> 
> Thanks for the update and most important, your trip survival...
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike.


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## tshirtsupplies (Aug 4, 2008)

OK, Ico Inks printing, there will be more to be announced post 1 SEPT...this is for certain, and not imagined, but rather then expound, all suppliers will let everyone know the details, once official.

We will let you know as soon as it is factual...until then, please let us know any questions on the HT papers?


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