# No payment received...Can I legally remove all of the decals that I installed on a local business's windows?



## NewToDecal (May 16, 2013)

I am new to the whole decal business, but purchased a D-75 30" SUMMACUT vinyl cutter and started making decals for different customers. I got a request from a local business to install 15 decals on 15 different windows. Now its been 5 months and I still haven't received a payment. Can I legally go and remove all of the decals I installed (they are on the outside so the business doesn't need to be open). Just wondering if anything like this has ever happened to anyone out there. I live in California if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance for your help.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Nope. You must take to court. If its been 5 months go take picture witha phone or device that recorde true time stamp. A standard digital will not work. This will help as if they didn't like the work you can use well, they have used for 5 months. If you remove and get caught you can go to jail, yes I know it sucks. You can sometimes file a lien depending on your states laws. That's why new customers have payment ready at time of service. In god we trust, all others pay cash.


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## Hegemone (Oct 18, 2011)

Have you sent them a lawyer letter or contacted the BBB or chamber of commerce to make inquiries as to other issues that this biz may be causing.


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## NewToDecal (May 16, 2013)

Thanks for the reply sben763. I'll have to look into small claims court and have all new customers pre-pay. Learning lesson I guess.

I haven't looked into anything yet Hegemone. I'm just trying to figure out what to do next. I emailed, called, text, sent an online credit card payment option, etc. He just keeps giving me the run around... saying he's out of town or tied up etc. He's never at the actual business.


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## YourLogoGear (Jul 5, 2011)

While your last option may be small claims court, your best option early on is to meet with the customer face-to-face. Email and telephone are easy to hide from, but when you continue to show up at the business, it becomes very embarrassing for them to ignore the issue. If you happen to have a friend who is a lawyer, a letter from them would be great.


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## ChristFollower (Oct 4, 2012)

I agree with everyone above - what I'd do, is start showing up every other day or more often with a duplicate invoice, and ask whoever is in the office to ask when you can expect payment. Print a big red "PAST DUE" on each one. Don't put it in an envelope or fold it.

My goal here would be to embarrass the "client" in front of their employees and customers. At some point, someone will explode in anger or pay you just to get rid of you.

This happened to me once, and the owner flat out told me that he was an established, well-respected local businessman, and I could go pound sand. When disreputable people think you're the little new guy, they treat you like this sometimes. In my case the guy had the money, but just thought he didn't have to give it to me. I annoyed them to the point that they threw a check at me and told me to get the hell out and never come back. Then he told half the town I "screwed him over" and I had the pleasure of undoing all that damage.

I mention this just to point out that in some cases, you're better off taking your licks and considering it an educational expense. You just have to weigh all the factors and decide if it is worth it to you or not. It's hard to separate what is fair from what is a good business decision sometimes.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Sometimes it just not worth your time to be showing up all the time. It has taken me time to recover my money sometimes but I have never spent that much time or went and visited as if I'm not working then I'm loosing even more money.


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## moroni00 (Jun 10, 2011)

NewToDecal said:


> I am new to the whole decal business, but purchased a D-75 30" SUMMACUT vinyl cutter and started making decals for different customers. I got a request from a local business to install 15 decals on 15 different windows. Now its been 5 months and I still haven't received a payment. Can I legally go and remove all of the decals I installed (they are on the outside so the business doesn't need to be open). Just wondering if anything like this has ever happened to anyone out there. I live in California if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance for your help.


Do not remove it. First seek a lawyer and make a demand letter first before going to court. That is the first step you gonna make.

Before you go to a deal. You must have a contract even it is small order. It is for your own protection. the contract will serve as an evidence that they received the services of your company.

Always put down payment in your service. 
Always Remember Payment First before service.


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## johnnyb57 (May 26, 2012)

You didn't hear this from me, in the past I've just taken the sign down on a sunday (when we had blue laws, and cameras everywhere). Even worked for a large company that paid us time and a half, and hired a crane to remove the heat and ac units from the roof.. this was and is illegal but it gives you some satisfaction.. Don't get caught


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Until you do get caught and are sitting in jail. Then the satisfaction factor rapidly falls.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Don't take down the signs. First as pointed out it wouldn't be legal, second reason is you will never get paid that way, and that should be your goal First rule in business, never make a business decision based on emotions, it generally will be the wrong one.

First lesson you have learned it to be paid first, then do the work.

Now you need to learn how to collect. Contact the customer, and be professional the entire time. Never threaten, don't even raise your voice. Just calmly explain to him that he is way past due, and then give a specific deadline (say the following week) and explain exactly what is going to happen if that date comes and goes without payment. Tell him that this is your last call and after that date he will have left you with no other choice and you will be forced to take all legal action available to you. It may include court action and seeking legal fees as well as the original bill, interest and late fees, (if you have that on your contract), and even the possibility of placing liens on his assets.

Then if he doesn't pay by that date, immediately take every action available to you in order to collect you money. Start with small claims court.

Good luck


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## ChristFollower (Oct 4, 2012)

Louie2010 said:


> First rule in business, never make a business decision based on emotions, it generally will be the wrong one.


Well said.


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## johnnyb57 (May 26, 2012)

Small claims court doesn't really provide a solution other then another court date, the other company's option was to put a lien on the business which really gets you anywhere. And as far as I was concerned after the removal of the sign I got a phone call asking me if I knew anything about it I said I did not, then was asked how long to fab another one since they had opened at that point. So I stated the only way was to pay me in full up front and a week til completion so one of the owners drove to my shop and payed me.. And no the one I removed wasn't at the shop.. Go figure


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

No to removing the signage.

Yes to taking a photo, with something in the picture to show the current date, to prove they are using the signage (they cannot claim unsatisfactory service if they're still using it, just be sure you can verify that it's YOUR signage and not someone else's that replaced yours).

Yes to filing a complaint with the local Chamber of Commerce and BBB. 

Yes to sending them a past due invoice via certified mail. 

No to showing up in person, unless it's to pick up the check.

Yes to telling them that if payment is not received within 15 days, you will seek satisfaction in small claims court.

Yes to following through with this threat.

Yes to getting a summary judgement if they don't show. Or, assuming they do, the judge awarding you. 

Yes to filing to have their till tapped if they don't pay up.


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## cascolo (Mar 8, 2007)

Take the time and make Contract. There so many resources that all you have to do is tailored one to your company.
NEVER!!! start a job with out a deposit, in my case it's 60%. Thinking of change it to 80%. 100% if paying with a CC card. "Payment due upon completion"

Verry simple do you whant to begged & waste your time to get paid. Do work with out deposit. Trust me I being there, it's not fun.
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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

At least in my state no contract is needed. A estimate, invoice with the terms. I also require a deposit on any jobs were I have to order materials. So if I am doing LED channel letters or vinyl that is a non stock color the deposit will cover any cost. If paid by check it has to clear before ordering material for anything over $100. 

If breaking the law and in most cases is a felony worked for you that's fine but please don't suggest others commit crimes. If you resort to these tactics the you become no better then the other guy. Here not paying a bill is not technically a crime unless a bad check or fraud was committed. I believe there are locals that not paying a invoice due can become a criminal offense


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## NeonTees (Apr 25, 2010)

Turning it over to a collections agent is another option. They take up to half but do the chasing. Pm me if you want a name. 


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## johnnyb57 (May 26, 2012)

Not giving any advice, but a lot of big business got there by screwing over a small and up and coming newbie, they also know time and money are on their side.. The one that bites the hardest usually wins and if nothing else take back whats yours.. Yes I did receive a 50% deposit up front which covered materials all it had to do was the point I wasn't going to take it in a** .. Heck I fulfilled my end of the deal, why shouldn't they.. I know a lot will say two wrongs don't make a right, but a lot of larger companies get a kick out of screwing another company even trying to put them under, its all legal til you get caught.. Sorry but these arrogant companies just piss me off..


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