# Sublimation Mid-Startup Questions



## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

This forum has a wealth of info! I am having a little trouble piecing together what I need through searching however. 

My goal is to do heat transfers on plain white t-shirts for friends, family, and later on for a website of mine. Nothing big. I researched the inkjet transfers and tested with it. I was disgusted with a paper that I bought at Staples to test with as it deteriorated after a couple washes and the print faded. Then I read about and purchased the Jet-Pro SoftStretch paper. Great stuff as far as feel goes, but the color faded after the first wash. I'm not happy with inkjet printing thus far. I am using 100% cotton t's. I assume this is normal. Would I be correct?

I want something that is durable and that will last the life of the shirt. Again, cost has to be cheap. I have researched and found the Epson C88+ as an inexpensive intro/option for Sublimation printing. But I have also read that it isn't true sublimation and it will leave boxes around the design (though I don't mind busting out the scissors). That is fine, but how is the quality and lasting-quality?

Am I barking up the right tree here or doing something wrong with my process of inkjet printing? Dye/sublimiation sounds like it works better, but I want the advice from people that have been doing this and know the comparisons of these methods. 

I'm all ears...teach me!


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

There are lots of fine folks here on the forum.

Your best bet is to get inkjet transfer paper from a vendor that participates on this forum.

My favorite paper is the Jet Pro Soft stretch (for inkjet)
Yes it does have a hand, yes it will wash away after many washings (20+)
Yes, it does leave a rectangle on the shirt (hard to see)
I think you will be happy.

I think, I would not buy a c88 (too old)
I like the epson 1400.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

As I said, I already bought and tried the JPSS transfer paper and the color faded on the first wash. I'm looking for something permanent (or at least much more so). 

I am looking at the C88+ because it is under $100 for the printer or around $350 with ink(dye?) and paper from a vendor on here. The 1440 is around $1400 by its self. Too spendy for what I'm working on.

On Epsons site the C88+ printer is only $85. The ink they have listed is I'm guessing the standard inkjet ink. Who sells the sublimation ink for this printer? Do I need any other equipment or just sublimation cartriges?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Sublimation is not for cotton.
My best guess is either the paper was not pressed correctly or the ink was
an issue.

What time/temp/pressure?
What printer and ink?

1400 is around $300 or less


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

Tyrant_007 said:


> This forum has a wealth of info! I am having a little trouble piecing together what I need through searching however.
> 
> My goal is to do heat transfers on plain white t-shirts for friends, family, and later on for a website of mine. Nothing big. I researched the inkjet transfers and tested with it. I was disgusted with a paper that I bought at Staples to test with as it deteriorated after a couple washes and the print faded. Then I read about and purchased the Jet-Pro SoftStretch paper. Great stuff as far as feel goes, but the color faded after the first wash. I'm not happy with inkjet printing thus far. I am using 100% cotton t's. I assume this is normal. Would I be correct?
> 
> ...


The three methods you are most likely looking into:

Utilize and inkjet transfer paper like JPSS, there's been some discussion as to which printers and types of inks hold up best, I forgot what the verdict was, but most household printers either use a Pigment or a Dye based ink (not to be confused with Dye-sublimation ink). 

Chromablast, produced by Sawgrass Ink (the owners of the dye sublimation patent in the U.S.), from what I recall reading, this is essentially using an ink and polymer system that creates a durable long lasting garment, but is not true dye sublimation on the garment. I believe you still have to trim the image. This method was designed for Cotton t-shirts. This is most likely what you were reading about for cotton products.

Dye sublimation, special formulated inks that when heated turn into a gas and will bind to a polymer/polyester substrate. Will not work on Cotton past the first wash, on a 50/50, the cotton fibers will wash out, so a 100% polyester garment is the prefered choice. No trimming required as the paper doesn't transfer any thing except the ink, however you are limited to lights and brights, and even with brights your color gamut changes depending on the color of the garment. 

I personally have an epson C88 with bulk fed dye sub inks, however I do not use it for garments as I also have a DTG printer. I primarily use my dye sub setup for awards. If you are looking at solely using it for garments, most dye sub garment printers prefer the wider format printer model, although your initial cost will go up due to needing more carts/bags (most of the printers above the C88/120 model have 6+ colors) and the printers will be more expensive.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

I must have seen the chromablast. I just want a finished product to be proud of...not one that will look like crap after a few washes. I read a good thread about chromablast and it seems promising (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t57252.html), but spendy for the ink. As for sublimation with a C88+, are there good and bad dye sub inks to go with? Either way it looks like a C88+ would be fine for home/small business use in either method of heat transfer (I won't need anything wider than 8 1/2 paper). If there is a serious difference in sub ink & poly compared to chromablast & cotton, I don't mind switching to some poly t's. 

I currently have the HP printer that came with my PC awhile back. It uses the standard HP ink and I've tested a couple different papers. I do like the JPSS, but the image faded bad. I can't remember the heat/time settings, I'll have to check when I get home. I did use instructions that I found on here. I just simply had to play with the pressure a little to get it right.


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

You can get a good sublimation education at www.dyesub.org


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

dim116 said:


> You can get a good sublimation education at www.dyesub.org


Somewhate old, but still good info. 

Thanks for the replies! Any info or advice based on experience is truly helpful. 

If I were to buy a C88+ and add the ability to use sub dye to it, would I just need the CIS and ink(dye)?


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

If you are in US, the only legal small format sublimation inks are Sawgrass inks SubliJet and Artainium lines. Most of the sublimation dealers will carry the ink as well. Johnson Plastics, Conde, and Coastal Business Supplies are a few that I use. Coastal Business offers free shipping after a certain amount and you can get 5% off by reading their post in the preferred vendors forum.

I use Artainium on my C88 with a bulk feed system. My prints were coming out too dark at first, but that was a color profile mishap, after setting the profile up properly, things have been running fine for over a year now. Occasionally the heads will get a bit dry and require a few cleaning cycles, I also had an air bubble in my line once which I had to suck out with my priming syringe bottle. Other than that, system's been pretty good to me. 

The main problem with poly is many people may not like/are not used to the feel, then there are vendors like Vapor Apparel that try to create a better feeling polyester garment but has a higher cost.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm thinking that I'll stick with cotton for the time being. I'll look at chromablast a little more. I'm curious if I can find it in a bulk ink system to make it cheaper per print.


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

we use the c88 with refillable cards and sub ink. lots cheaper then a ciss system. sublimation has no hand and will last forever on the vapor shirts.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

Does anyone sell vapor shirts for relatively cheap? I'd be buying in bulk, but not hundreds at a time. Maybe 25 per size for 6 sizes or something similar. Anyone you'd recommend?


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

Does anyone have a preferred seller for Vapor t-shirts? I've seen them under $5.00 at cheapest so far. 
Thanks!


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## majesticmind (Sep 1, 2007)

If it faded after the 1st wash it is aproblem with the ink you use not the JPSS. I have test prints now that at over 100 washes and no fade.Also sublimation only works on polyester garments. Ink jet dye ink and sublimation are not the same thing.

Sublimation will leave no square round your image, but you can not print on cotton with it.

Do some more reading.



Tyrant_007 said:


> As I said, I already bought and tried the JPSS transfer paper and the color faded on the first wash. I'm looking for something permanent (or at least much more so).
> 
> I am looking at the C88+ because it is under $100 for the printer or around $350 with ink(dye?) and paper from a vendor on here. The 1440 is around $1400 by its self. Too spendy for what I'm working on.
> 
> On Epsons site the C88+ printer is only $85. The ink they have listed is I'm guessing the standard inkjet ink. Who sells the sublimation ink for this printer? Do I need any other equipment or just sublimation cartriges?


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## catejohn (Jul 13, 2008)

I own the Espon 4880 Hybrid. It is a great machine, but expensive for a start up. If I were you, I would truely think about how much you are going to use your machines. I have found out the hard way that if you are not printing every few days, it WILL clog up and cost you tons in ink lost. Maybe find someone that you can buy the prints off of at first and then as your demand really starts coming in, then purchase a machine. You also need to have a heat press in which to adhere the transfers. If you would like to talk more, you can give me a call at 360-616-4617.
Good ;uck.
Catie


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

Majestic & Cate, thanks for the replies. I'm aware that the ink is my problem. My printer is also an old HP model that has been through hell and back. That is why I'm in the market for a different printer. I can use my current printer for printing documents on regular paper. I have decided that the C88 is the best bang for the buck whether I go sublimation ink or not. I have been reading alot on the sublimation and it seems to be easy and have the results I'm looking for (Permanent, no feel, and no transfer paper box). I have a heat press, so the rest of my cost is just the printer setup and garments. 

I need to figure out where to buy Vapor apparel at and then I can work up a good quote to convince my wife of what I want to buy


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## EnMartian (Feb 14, 2008)

Chromablast is a great way to print transfers for cotton if that's what you want to do. If you're just looking to print shirts as a hobby (at least at first) you could start out with a Workforce 30. It probably wouldn't do for a business that is looking to build volume, but it could work for someone who just wants to print a few shirts. 

For sublimation, an Epson 1400 is a good mid range printer. You could also purchase a Workforce 30 for sublimation, but the same caveat would apply, it probably isn't a good bargain for someone who is looking to go into business. In those cases you'd better off with at least an Epson 1400.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

I think I'm going to play with a little sublimation. I'll be just doing this as a hobby more or less. I think I'm going to get the C88 with refillable cartridges as I hear cartridges are probably better for someone that won't print every day. I have a vapor T, a 50/50 T, and a 65/35 T to test with and I'll be washing them over and over to see the lasting results. I'll also test out my wifes Dell printer with the JPSS paper to see if its ink is any better than my crappy little HP on the cotton. Should be fun to compare and test them side by side. 

Again, thanks everyone for all the help and info sources!


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## ladyjn13 (Aug 24, 2009)

The Vapor t-shirt is designed for sublimation inks. I'm not certain you will get the desired results with the JPSS paper with regular inks. 

We are starting up our t-shirt business, opted for the Epson 1400, and the Artainium bulk ink system. The quality on the Vapor shirts is amazing. For 50/50 shirts we first mist with a pre-treatment from Coast Graphics Supply, and then sublimate. Both of these wash fantastically. The limitation is lighter colors, unless we first sublimate on Trans Fabric Dark paper and then break out the sissors.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

ladyjn13 said:


> The Vapor t-shirt is designed for sublimation inks. I'm not certain you will get the desired results with the JPSS paper with regular inks.
> 
> We are starting up our t-shirt business, opted for the Epson 1400, and the Artainium bulk ink system. The quality on the Vapor shirts is amazing. For 50/50 shirts we first mist with a pre-treatment from Coast Graphics Supply, and then sublimate. Both of these wash fantastically. The limitation is lighter colors, unless we first sublimate on Trans Fabric Dark paper and then break out the sissors.


I won't be using the JPSS with regular inks on the vapor T's. I may get chromoblast ink to use with the JPSS, but only on cotton. Do you know if that same pre-treatment spray works on the 65/35 blends as well? So that stuff basically holds the color to the cotton fibers better?


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## ladyjn13 (Aug 24, 2009)

The spray would definately work with a 65/35 shirt. Basically, we use this for Sublimation with anything less than 100% polyester. I'm not certain the JPSS paper is designed for Chromablast inks. You may want to find out or contact Sawgrass, they are very helpful. Here is a link to their website for Chromablast requirements. Sawgrass Technologies - Key Cotton Decorating System Components for ChromaBlast


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

I read that shortly after I posted. Different paper for their ink I guess. Still it's pretty cheap paper. 

I've been looking at the other entry level printers Epson still sells. Was set on the C88+, but I also like the Workforce 30 and Workforce 40. Anyone have any pro's and con's in comparison to any of them over the other?


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

I own the 4880 for sublimation and the 1400 for inkjet transfers. I use MultInk in the 1400 with 
JetPro Softstretch and I do not have any fading. It's not as bright as sublimation when put side by side but my customers love the quality. There is defenately a market for the inkjet transfers. It has also allowed me to get more $18.00-20.00 for my vapor sublimation tees. I now have options for my customers with small orders. 10-13 bucks for inkjet transfers or 18-22 for sublimation tees. Don't forget mousepads and coasters. I do alot of mousepads and the money I save on using inkjet over sublimation saves me a ton. I had a job for 100 mousepads when I purchased the inkjet system. just switching systems saved me enough to buy the 1400 printer and the ink.


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## baddjun1 (Aug 5, 2009)

Read in a sublimation post here on the forum when I was researching chromablast/sublijet hybrid systems that Hanes has a new tee that is polyester on the outside and cotton on the inside. May be worth looking into.


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## Tyrant_007 (Aug 17, 2009)

I've seen the shirts you are talking about called Soft L'ink. Heard good and bad about them. Another garment for me to test side by side with the others I guess. I would like to be able to make both cotton and poly. I can see the difference in cost, but also some people can't wear Polyester or Cotton. As cheap as the workforce 30's are I can probably get one for each purpose. 

If I go with a refill cart for my dye sub inks, do I just buy the bottle form such as these? Or are there more specific ones for pouring into a cart? 

Again, thanks everone for the wealth of information.


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## Cjoe Design (Jun 3, 2008)

I have sold a lot of SoftLinks. They are very comfortable. I would compare them to a cotton Beefy tee, but they are such a weird cut that I wouldn't dare sell them if the customer didn't see samples first. They are extremely boxy and the cut is quit a bit shorter than any other shirt I have ever seen. I don't know why they can't have a more traditional cut. 80% of my sublimation tees are Vapor because they are closer to normal sizing. If they came out with a different cut I would choose them over Vapor.


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