# Epson 1400 and Claria ink (dark paper)?



## The Arch Villain (Feb 8, 2009)

My Epson 1400 is on the way (Yaaay!) and I want to get a few sheets to test out the Heat press thing. I have read the forums and see that the paper recommended for light shirts using Claria ink (Epson 1400) was JPSS. I even saw the before and after pics but I missed what paper you guys felt was best for doing transfers on dark shirts. If you could post that for me and maybe explain why it would be most appreciated. I may be bugging you guys on the CISS thing later but for the time being I just want to get my feet wet. 

Thanks in Advance
Yet another newbie


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## ambitious (Oct 29, 2007)

The Arch Villain said:


> My Epson 1400 is on the way (Yaaay!) and I want to get a few sheets to test out the Heat press thing. I have read the forums and see that the paper recommended for light shirts using Claria ink (Epson 1400) was JPSS. I even saw the before and after pics but I missed what paper you guys felt was best for doing transfers on dark shirts. If you could post that for me and maybe explain why it would be most appreciated. I may be bugging you guys on the CISS thing later but for the time being I just want to get my feet wet.
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> Yet another newbie


I honestly don't remember seeing a post about a transfer paper for darks using the epson 1400 with claria inks, but let's wait and see if somebody has done it before. Hang in there.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Like Nick, I have not heard of anyone using claria ink for dark transfer paper...one way to find out is get a sample of dark paper, print and press then do a wash to see if the images washes out..As you may know claria ink is ink _resistant.._ I think either Kelly or BobbieLee has used Claria...but not sure


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## MYDAMIT (Jan 14, 2007)

i'm not using claria ink but my epson 1400 has yellow and black pigment ink and magenta,light M,cyan and light cyan are all dybe base ink from MIS. I have no problem in printing opaque paper using blue grid and ironall dark.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Ivancuriel tested the Ironall Dark with his ink, which was the Claria compatible - not the OEM Claria. He tested it twice, and both times, I believe, was with the compatible Claria.

Here's the link:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t41837-3.html#post316388

Sample papers don't cost much. It's best to just order a sample, print, press and wash them up. See what your opinion is. What looks great to one person might be substandard to another.

That said, I've used Durabrite and Canon regular dye ink (not even water resistant) with Ironall Dark. Both inks printed and pressed beautifully. They even washed nicely at first. Over time, the Canon faded. I didn't know *how* much it faded until I saw how the Durabrite held up. Until I saw the Durabrite, I thought the Canon ink did a decent job. I did see fade taking over as the washes went on, but with nothing to compare it to, it looked okay'ish. Once I saw the Durabrite, I realized how the Canon did not compare with the long term wash results of the Durabrite. My opinion was formed over time and experience. 

I still say, nothing beats doing a wash test with your own products, and judging for yourself how you feel a product performs. 

There are plenty of folks who did report positive experiences with Claria OEM ink and JetWear Dark/Alpha Gold for Darks.

If you search "jetwear claria" or "alpha gold claria" you'll return threads with user feedback.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

charles95405 said:


> Like Nick, I have not heard of anyone using claria ink for dark transfer paper...one way to find out is get a sample of dark paper, print and press then do a wash to see if the images washes out..As you may know claria ink is ink _resistant.._ I think either Kelly or BobbieLee has used Claria...but not sure


I did my first shirt last night - I used HP Vivera Dye ink (I believe it's pretty similar to Claria), the colors came out great, I haven't washed it yet. I wasn't happy with the hand though, seemed thick and rubbery (for lack of a better word). Don't look at the wrinkles, ha-ha...


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## mrdavid (Sep 14, 2007)

Soon as you wash it can you post pics this will help others thanks.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

mrdavid said:


> Soon as you wash it can you post pics this will help others thanks.


Well... lol, I would say yes but I was goofing around last night and decided to try the trick I read on here somewhere that said you can put a piece of paper on it and reheat it then pull it off... that didn't work out too well! But I did put another image on the back of the using the same ink and paper, it's in the dryer now, I'll post a pic when it's done!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

sharonses said:


> I did my first shirt last night - I used HP Vivera Dye ink (I believe it's pretty similar to Claria)


The info I was able to pick up about these inks is that Vivera is a regular dye ink, while Claria is a "water resistant dye" - it's like it's own breed of ink. A little different from regular photographic dye because it has water resistant qualities, but not quite pigment because it is a dye ink, not encapsulated in resin.

Claria was developed to give photographers the benefit of pigment (as much as possible) and the benefits of dye ink. 

If you go to Photography forums, the debate of Claria vs. Pigment inks goes on and on, hehe, just like it does here, but the topic is on printing photos, while we talk transfers, it's pretty funny.  But the core of the convo's remain basically the same. Is it good? 



> I wasn't happy with the hand though, seemed thick and rubbery (for lack of a better word). Don't look at the wrinkles, ha-ha...


What paper did you use? 



> was goofing around last night and decided to try the trick I read on here somewhere that said you can put a piece of paper on it and reheat it then pull it off... that didn't work out too well!


I haven't tried this yet, either. I heard that sometimes it doesn't come off the first time. Did you try it a few times?


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

I'm going to reply without a quote because the message was getting huge! lol

I'll answer on Vivera here and then answer the other questions. I use Vivera for my fabric square business, I print directly on cotton sheets for quilters, etc. And we've had great success with washing those pieces, here is what I see about the ink:

New HP Vivera dye-based inks are formulated to pass key water resistance tests developed by HP: Full Immersion, Standing Water, Evaporation, Standing Water Blotted, Water Spray, Water Drip, and Wet Smudge. The new ink and paper combination is HP’s first solution for compact photo printers rated as ‘water resistant’ based on HP testing criteria. New dye-based HP Vivera Inks are formulated for superior handling. When printing on instant-dry HP Advanced Photo Paper, prints can be handled immediately from the printer without smudging.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

Girlzndollz said:


> What paper did you use?


This was the *"JET-OPAQUE"* from BestBlanks.com. 



Girlzndollz said:


> I haven't tried this yet, either. I heard that sometimes it doesn't come off the first time. Did you try it a few times?


It actually peeled off the shirt while in the dryer - so I guess I can press the front again, lol. I'll send a picture in a minute of the image I pressed on the back.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

sharonses said:


> New HP Vivera dye-based inks are formulated to pass key water resistance tests developed by HP: Full Immersion, Standing Water, Evaporation, Standing Water Blotted, Water Spray, Water Drip, and Wet Smudge. The new ink and paper combination is HP’s first solution for compact photo printers rated as ‘water resistant’ based on HP testing criteria. New dye-based HP Vivera Inks are formulated for superior handling. When printing on instant-dry HP Advanced Photo Paper, prints can be handled immediately from the printer without smudging.


Great, thanks!!  Is this off of the HP site somewhere, do you happen to have a link to it handy? 

_I'd like to add this info to an HP dye and pigment ink info on the forum_. Thanks alot for this info.



> It actually peeled off the shirt while in the dryer - so I guess I can press the front again, lol.


Omgosh. Completely off? Did it make a mess in the dryer? 




> This was the *"JET-OPAQUE"* from BestBlanks.com.


Thanks. JetOpaque is Neenah's JetOPAQUE. That is the same paper as JetWear Dark and Alpha Gold for Darks, so if you see the feedback on those, it's this same paper. If you want to try something different from what you are using, those are two papers you won't need to spend you money on sampling, they're what you already tried.

Something a little thinner is the Ironall Dark. But, folks who have used both (I haven't) tell me that the Ironall Dark is a little thinner, softer, less plasticky, but the JetWear dark/AGFD/JetOpaque is a little thicker but seems to hold color better.

I don't know. My Ironall Dark does not seem to have fade issues to me, but I use pigment ink, and some folks use pigment, some claria, some HP. But there are folks who used pigment and said the same, so who knows.

Well, thanks for the info updates, and the news on the HP inks. That is great that they are offering something with water resistance. I wonder what printers take those carts, and I'd like to include it into the HP ink thread. Great info.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

Girlzndollz said:


> Great, thanks!!  Is this off of the HP site somewhere, do you happen to have a link to it handy?


I'll go back and find the link for you - I think it was a photo review site, I'll see if I can find the same info directly from HP. 



Girlzndollz said:


> Omgosh. Completely off? Did it make a mess in the dryer?


Actually no, most of it was already off from the paper trick (trial) but what was left just sort of rolled up on the shirt where I could just grab it and pull it off. It really would have been bad if it had melted all over the dryer! I didn't even think about that, lol.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

I haven't found anything on HP's site to support the other site's statement - however, with that said I must also say I'm not a big fan of HP's site in general - love the printers, hate the site! I'll keep looking though and I'll post the link here if I find anything. 

Here are 2 pics of the shirt I was talking about - this is after washing and drying - using Vivera 88 cartridges on Jet Opaque for darks.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

sharonses said:


> I haven't found anything on HP's site to support the other site's statement -


I'm familiar with the 88 carts. The black is pigment, and the colors are regular dye. Here is a link to the HP site for those carts, if you want more details on them:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF17a/A10-12771-64199-69422-69422-1099918.htmlhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/printers-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers/t64394.html

There has been a ton of confusion on this site regarding the HP carts, too. I wouldn't be surprised if it is widespread across other forums as well. With the black being pigment, which is water resistant, sometimes folks think the colors are as well, or that Vivera means pigment, which it doesn't necessarily mean. 

They each have to be looked up on HP to be sure. The above link gives the page on the HP site to check them out, and how to find it on HP's site. 




> however, with that said I must also say I'm not a big fan of HP's site in general -


Me, either!  Epson's site is so well laid out, easy to read, info on ink is right there. HP's site is so hard to navigate and find info on.

This is one reason I tried to get to the bottom of the HP ink question (are they all pigment? does Vivera mean pigment? which are dye?)

Here's the thread with the link to discover which HP ink is which:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/printers-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers/t64394.htmlhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/printers-inks-inkjet-laser-transfers/t64394.html#post381820

These HP 88 carts came up specifically. A few girls use them, and apparently, the carts used to say Vivera on them, but they don't anymore. (?) 

I dunno. I only know the colors in the 88 carts are standard inks, that's what HP calls everyday dye ink, standard.



> I'll keep looking though and I'll post the link here if I find anything.


 
Thank you.  If you do find anything more on HP making some formulation change, and that they didn't put in these links, that would be awesome to get a link. 

It would be nice to keep track of these HP inks as much as possible. They were shrouded in confusion for so long, and we've barely just got a hold of understanding them recently. 





> Here are 2 pics of the shirt I was talking about - this is after washing and drying - using Vivera 88 cartridges on Jet Opaque for darks.


Thank you. Oh hey, you say the inks are Vivera. Do the boxes say Vivera on the outside? If so, would you mind clicking the link I gave to the Vivera thread? Two girls in there are looking for 88 carts that say Vivera, they say the supplies they see no longer say Vivera on the boxes. They don't know why, and are looking for the old 88 Vivera carts they used to buy.

If you have the time.... thank you!!  And thanks for the photos. The one on the right looks pretty good.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

You know what's weird about that, Kelly... the black is pigment, and the colors dye - on another post I am complaining about my black turning green when washed (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-heat-transfer-paper/t79433.html). Which is funny, because I haven't had problems with color - however that was another type of paper. 

My 88 boxes say "New Package, Same Brillant HP Ink" - so maybe they are trying to make people forget that it used to say Vivera!


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

sharonses said:


> You know what's weird about that, Kelly... the black is pigment, and the colors dye - on another post I am complaining about my black turning green when washed (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-heat-transfer-paper/t79433.html). Which is funny, because I haven't had problems with color - however that was another type of paper.


 
Hmm, that is most likely what is known as color shifting. Color shifting is a notorious Epson Durabrite pigment ink issue. Not everyone that uses Durabrite experiences it, but if folks are getting color shifting, they are almost always using Durabite.

That is a little odd that you got this with HP ink, but, you did, and this is what it most likely is.

The way people have dealt with it with Durabrite is to change the color profile on the computer, reducing yellow. If that doesn't give good enough results, they usually change to 3rd party inks, either refill carts or bulk ink. 



> MY boxes say "New Package, Same Brillant HP Ink" - so maybe they are trying to make people forget that it used to say Vivera!


Thanks, I bet you're right.


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## sharonses (Feb 27, 2009)

Girlzndollz said:


> Hmm, that is most likely what is known as color shifting. Color shifting is a notorious Epson Durabrite pigment ink issue. Not everyone that uses Durabrite experiences it, but if folks are getting color shifting, they are almost always using Durabite.
> 
> That is a little odd that you got this with HP ink, but, you did, and this is what it most likely is.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info again, Kelly! That's very interesting.... as soon as I get some more paper I'll try some more out and let you know what happens! I just got the samples because I wasn't sure what would work... lol - I'm still not sure!


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