# Trademarks for Multiple Phrases?!



## MyNameIsMud (Oct 14, 2010)

I am starting my own t-shirt biz, with ALL of my sayings being unique to the off-roading theme of my website. 

I did some research on trademarks. I read somewhere at the USPTO that trademarks can take about a YEAR?? Is this true?

Anyway, I have about 12 to 15 original/unique phrases I wish to start designing t-shirts for.... (another journey) and I wondered if I honestly must trademark EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM before I can design for each of them and sell them? 

SOme of you may be selling 20, 30, 50 unique t-shirts on your website or in your stores... so did you have to trademark every one of them before you could move forward with your business??? And did it take a whole year?

I am wondering how in the WORLD anyone can afford starting a clothingline like this when trademarks cost so much and take so long. Someone please share.....


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## dptk (Aug 14, 2009)

there are lots of topics on this forum regarding trademark. You can't trademark a short term or phrase. You can trademark your brand name


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

You are not going to be able to TM phrases very easily. And if you do you will need to register each one on its own so plan on $500 or more for each one when you are done with the process. 

A trademark is associated with a brand, not a saying on a shirt or other type of product. A saying with a brand is normally a Service Mark, not a Trade Mark and it needs to be used to identify your product, not just some saying on a shirt. That is not protected in any way.


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## kaycherie (Aug 6, 2010)

I created 8 different "slogans" that I will use as 8 different t shirt designs but I filed for copyright instead. I included all of the slogans in one filing. Cost about $35. I thought my designs fit more into the category of literary work. I filed in November 2009 and received my certificate from the copyright office in June of this year. So it took about 7 months. 

I wasn't worried about the time frame because I knew I wasn't producing shirts until December 2010. I'm not sure about this, but I think you are possibly covered from the time you fill out the application. If someone copied your design you have proof that you have already filed for copyright. You might want to research that because I could be wrong. But that's the way someone tried to explain it to me. 

Hope this helps.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

MyNameIsMud said:


> I read somewhere at the USPTO that trademarks can take about a YEAR?? Is this true?


Yes, it takes about 13-18 months for the entire trademark registration process to be completed.



MyNameIsMud said:


> Anyway, I have about 12 to 15 original/unique phrases I wish to start designing t-shirts for.... (another journey) and I wondered if I honestly must trademark EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM before I can design for each of them and sell them?


No, you do not have to trademark anything at all to be able to design and sell t-shirts based on original/unique phrases.

In fact, trademarking a phrase for use on t-shirts is actually considered somewhat difficult (unless the phrase is also the brand name or used as part of the brand's marketing).

Typically, t-shirt designs are protected under copyright. Copyright is a different form of intellectual property than trademark and is quicker and cheaper to register. Most works of art, including t-shirt designs, are considered copyrighted once they are in fixed form and do not even need to be registered to be protected (although it does help to have the registration).



MyNameIsMud said:


> SOme of you may be selling 20, 30, 50 unique t-shirts on your website or in your stores... so did you have to trademark every one of them before you could move forward with your business??? And did it take a whole year?


Most clothing brands only trademark their brand name. The individual t-shirt designs are protected under copyright.

When applying for a trademark, the applicant does not need to wait for the registration process to be completed before using the mark in commerce. In fact, proving use of the mark in commerce is part of the registration process. So it is actually expected that the applicant use the mark before the process is completed.

And yes, it probably took the whole year for a trademark submission to be registered.



MyNameIsMud said:


> I am wondering how in the WORLD anyone can afford starting a clothingline like this when trademarks cost so much and take so long. Someone please share.....


You may have a slight misunderstanding of the purpose of a trademark. Registering a trademark is not a prerequisite for starting a clothing brand. So you do not have to register a trademark at all to start and operate your business.

The benefit of trademarking is to establish exclusive ownership of the brand name. This means that you can own the mark for the class that you apply for (in this case, the class would be clothing). And by having the federal registration, you will be granted legal recourse against unauthorized use of your mark within that class.

An important thing to keep in mind about trademarks is that registering your mark will not prevent anyone from stealing and using your mark. It is up to you as a trademark owner to aggressively pursue legal action against infringement. That is the only way to effectively protect a mark.


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## MyNameIsMud (Oct 14, 2010)

OK, I do fully understand the unique differences between service marks, trademarks, and copyrights. But let's check my comprehension.....

A) My unique website/logo/business will be trademarked.
Using that two-word trademark within a few phrases used on t-shirts would need a servicemark... correct?

B) Clever-cool-money-making phrases (not related to my trademark) cannot be claimed in any form? Others can sell t-shirts with my unique phrase, because phrases are not commonly claimable? So, someone explain to me if I can sell shirts that say "Grab Life by the Horns!" as long as the Dodge logo or trademark is not used on the product. (?) 

AND..... Especially....... What if I used the word HEMI in a phrase on a t-shirt? 

You see why I am trying to figure out how to differentiate between what is what? And if and how I can protect my own clever phrases.

I just feel that I have a generous handful of outstanding ideas, catchy phrases that people are going to love so much that others in the biz will immediately want to steal. They are that good. Thanks for your efforts. I DO value them.


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## dptk (Aug 14, 2009)

It sounds like your ideas are very valuable, and likely to make lots and lots of money, I highly suggest you get the absolute best trademark lawyer in the country to protect those ideas, as it sounds like you are sitting on a lot of valuable profit potential.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

MyNameIsMud said:


> My unique website/logo/business will be trademarked.


You can trademark your logo, but you can't trademark your website or business. I believe you can register a mark that consists of ".com" but that will only protect the actual mark and not the website or its content.



MyNameIsMud said:


> Using that two-word trademark within a few phrases used on t-shirts would need a servicemark... correct?


A mark for use on t-shirts would need a trademark, not a servicemark. But unless the mark is also your brand name or used in your brand's marketing, it may be difficult to register the mark for use on t-shirts.



MyNameIsMud said:


> Clever-cool-money-making phrases (not related to my trademark) cannot be claimed in any form?


Yes and no. These types of phrases usually cannot be trademarked, although you can try. They can be copyrighted, although it would be the actual design that is protected and not the phrase itself.

But the actual protection of the mark is not in the registration. It is in the action you take against infringement. So it really depends on the specific usage of the original owner and the specific usage of the infringer that determines whether it can be protected.



MyNameIsMud said:


> Others can sell t-shirts with my unique phrase, because phrases are not commonly claimable?


Phrases *are* commonly claimable through trademark. However, phrases *for use on t-shirts* are considered difficult to register unless the mark is also your brand name or used in your brand's marketing.

If you are simply using an unregistered phrase on a shirt, then yes, others can use the phrase too. It is still possible to take legal action, but there are many variables that will determine who will win the case.



MyNameIsMud said:


> So, someone explain to me if I can sell shirts that say "Grab Life by the Horns!" as long as the Dodge logo or trademark is not used on the product. (?)


"Grab Life by the Horns!" is trademarked by Chrysler. So if you use that mark, regardless of whether or not you use their logo, you would be at risk to be sued for infringement.



MyNameIsMud said:


> AND..... Especially....... What if I used the word HEMI in a phrase on a t-shirt?


"HEMI" is also trademarked by Chrysler. So if you use that mark, you would be at risk to be sued for infringement.

Chrysler is able to trademark these words and phrases because they are both big parts of their overall branding. They also have high powered attorneys responsible for the registering of their marks and the protection of their marks. Their existing brand holds so much value, that any additional marks become viably trademarkable based on the association of the existing brand.



MyNameIsMud said:


> You see why I am trying to figure out how to differentiate between what is what? And if and how I can protect my own clever phrases.


It's probably a good idea to consult an IP attorney. But two good general things to keep in mind...
1. Don't use any existing marks that are associated with major brands. Chances are they are trademarked and any usage could be infringement.
2. Protecting your own clever phrases will ultimately come down to legal action. While federal registrations are important, proving usage is important as well. So document everything you do and keep records of where and when you use all your phrases. Consult an attorney on what should be registered. The rest you can try to protect based on usage.



MyNameIsMud said:


> I just feel that I have a generous handful of outstanding ideas, catchy phrases that people are going to love so much that others in the biz will immediately want to steal. They are that good. Thanks for your efforts. I DO value them.


I think you may find that constant legal action and registration fees just to protect a phrase on a t-shirt may be more expensive than what you will profit off the phrase in the first place. Bottom line is, focus more attention on making money by selling shirts and less attention on others stealing your phrases. If your phrases do get stolen, you can always plan and take legal action at that point.


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## MyNameIsMud (Oct 14, 2010)

I can't tell you enough how grateful I am for your guidance and insight. I think anyone who reads this senses I am onto something pretty good, and I can honestly say that I am. So, I wish to do things right from the start for the long-term.

Bottom line, because of this, I see now more than ever, that I do need to focus my finances on a trademark attorney. I appreciate your advice.

I'm a creative writer, so my phrases have some substantial potential. "The Message" on t-shirts I sell are inspiring and fun and cater to the off-road enthusiast. I have a very viable market wrapped up in the phrases and they will be very appealing. I wish I had investors. So, I am also at odds financially, because the website, and the t-shirt DESIGNS require substantial appeal. I know this is a long-term goal. I'm willing to go the distance for it because I believe in the final products I will make available to the consumer... t-shirts, and so many other products with these phrases and life mottos.

Thanks for your efforts.
I hope I find all the right people to help me reach my ambitious goals.


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## MyNameIsMud (Oct 14, 2010)

dptk said:


> It sounds like your ideas are very valuable, and likely to make lots and lots of money, I highly suggest you get the absolute best trademark lawyer in the country to protect those ideas, as it sounds like you are sitting on a lot of valuable profit potential.



DP..... You are very intuitive.

Thanks for getting that immediately.


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## dptk (Aug 14, 2009)

Best of luck, sounds like you have lots of success ahead of you with the valuable phrases you have created. I wish I was that creative !

Be sure to share links to the designs after you get them protected


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

MyNameIsMud said:


> Bottom line, because of this, I see now more than ever, that I do need to focus my finances on a trademark attorney. I appreciate your advice.


If you are just starting out, you are better off focusing your finances on production, marketing and distribution. It is more important to sell your product, turn over inventory and create cash flow than to worry about legal protection. If you can afford to spend enough money on each of these areas, then that's fine. But don't allow your legal costs to be so high that your production and marketing budget suffers. While the legal protection is important, it is not going to prevent anyone from stealing your phrases anyway. So focus on creating and selling your product first.


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## MyNameIsMud (Oct 14, 2010)

(I've been offline for a short break)

Yes, this is definitely another way to view things from the bottom looking so far UP. I most certainly don't wish to fall face-first during the first few months of start-up! 

I suppose then, that my real inquiry would be about what order to place all of these assorted priorities. 

Currently, I am still working on completing a business plan, so researching is all I am able to do, or should be doing, for right now. This forum helps a great deal in that, so thank you! 

One more thing I wish to ask you all is, have you came across a graphic designer who appears to have a great deal of talent for truck-related creativity yet? ~I browsed through the t-shirt gallery here and honestly did not find a specific designer that stood out for this theme...... but please do keep an eye out for one and think of me, please? LOL  I would like that very much.


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