# Rhinestoners! You must check out this Macro!



## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm new to stoning so maybe this has all been covered but I came across this Macro last night and thought heck for $10.00 I'll try it... 

It's AWESOME... If for only one function it's awesome... So awesome I made a little video demonstration on it...

Here is the link to the video...

Rhinestone Design - The Finishing Touch - YouTube

Here is the link to the Macro being demonstrated.

Dizzy, Shaping v3

MacroMonster.Com :: Product - Dizzy: Shaping Version 3

Kevin


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

yeah it has been covered but it's OK Kevin maybe others new to stoning also missed the post and this will be helpful to them.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Interesting. Good info for those using the macromonster option. I though rstones did that but may be wrong. Fun to relive the excitement of a beginner rhinstoner. Keep sharing your finds. May not be for everybody but may help someone else who may not know about it.


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

You are correct Jean you can do that in rStones the Dizzy shape tool is not needed but I will admit I do have a copy. And I agree don't you just love his enthusiasm?

Kevin if you click on the last tab in your rStones macro directly under the stones, and click the last option rStones will do the same thing.


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## BHD (Oct 31, 2007)

Kevin, I agree!! Dizzy: Shaping v.3 is a fantastic tool! I also use it when I am pulling a design I have made in another program, let's say Winpc into CorelDRAW as an eps file. For the person that does not own the r-stones program, this simple macro will make it very easy to change the size of the "circles" and alter the design with minimal effort! Kudos to Macromonster.com and Jeff!


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

veedub3 said:


> You are correct Jean you can do that in rStones the Dizzy shape tool is not needed but I will admit I do have a copy. And I agree don't you just love his enthusiasm?
> 
> Kevin if you click on the last tab in your rStones macro directly under the stones, and click the last option rStones will do the same thing.


See this is why I post these things... To learn... I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing though?

The purpose of the video and the excitement about Dizzy is because rStones can't do what I was looking to do at least I don't think it can?... rStones as I understand it works with only "stones". 

So yes you can swap out color and size of "stones" in a snap... But when using TTF Rhinestone Fonts or when working with an existing Rhinestone design from one of the many suppliers out there... The dots of the font and design... They are not an "stone", therefore as I understand it and as I've tried rStones doesn't interact with these dots at all. I can't select 5 green circles and use any of the edit features in rStone on them... rStone doesn't see these 5 circles as "stones".

Now what's cool is... If you have Dizzy to take a "stone" from rStones and replace existing non "stones" Now we have "stones"... Any further editing you can now do with rStone!... YEAH!

So if we are using rStones for pricing we will now have an entire design we can cost out because our non circles of our TTF Rhinestone Font have been converted to a "stone" that rStones can recognize.

Now if I'm wrong with my understanding please let me know... I like to pass along accurate info...

But I'm pretty sure one has to have Dizzy if they want to do what I was demonstrating in the video... I don't think rStones is going to do what I was demonstrating on it's own? If it can then I'm baffeled.. There isn't much to the rStones program and I can't seem to figure out how to swap out "stones" when the objects I'm looking to modify aren't actually "stones" to begin with.

Help!... Show me how! I wanna know!...


Kevin


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

I guess I do not understand the problem since I do not use rstones. I had it on a pc that crashed but did not use it much. The circles do not have to be rhinestones for you to be able to know how many it will take to do the job. Just get rid of everything else, do a select all, and Corel will tell you how many objects. That is how many stones you will use for the design. Make sure they are not grouped or anything. Color and appearance only matter if you are showing a customer a mockup or if you are going to sell premade designs and need for them to look like rhinestones. Your cutter does not care what color the circles are. I think rstones gives you a stone count also.


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## BHD (Oct 31, 2007)

It is easy to "move" any eps file into your r-stone program to
"stone" for a simulated rhinestone look.Here is a picture of a font
that has been converted to curves and then moved into r-stones.
Kudos to Sick Puppy for showing this technique to the forum!


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

BHD said:


> It is easy to "move" any eps file into your r-stone program to
> "stone" for a simulated rhinestone look.


Yep that works for sure... But that process requires an extra step... Actually a few extra steps... 

Once you stone the design with rStones all the stones you just added are selected... You then have to group the stones you just added... Move them out of the way.. Delete the original non stones...

So the process will certainly work... But it's a bit of hassle... With the Dizzy Macro... You don't have to do the grouping. moving and deleting or the original objects...

That all said... What a simple solution Sick Puppy shared... I doubt it would of crossed my mind to do it... LOL

Thank you for sharing!

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

jean518 said:


> I guess I do not understand the problem since I do not use rstones. I had it on a pc that crashed but did not use it much. The circles do not have to be rhinestones for you to be able to know how many it will take to do the job. Just get rid of everything else, do a select all, and Corel will tell you how many objects. That is how many stones you will use for the design. Make sure they are not grouped or anything. Color and appearance only matter if you are showing a customer a mockup or if you are going to sell premade designs and need for them to look like rhinestones. Your cutter does not care what color the circles are. I think rstones gives you a stone count also.


Hello Jean,

You're right... Certainly we can get a stone count just using CorelDRAW... However if our "stones" are true stones that rStones can recognize not only do we get an exact count of the stones used... But if we are creating a multi size stone design or a multi colored stone design or both... rStones can sort tht all out and tell us what color stones we used, how many and what size stones are used in a given design... Something you simply can't do in CorelDRAW alone very easily. rStones also has a built pricing function so not only will it tell us the stones, sizes and colors used but it will actually tell us what that design costs if we go thru and setup the pricing option...


BHD shared a bit of a work around where you can import a eps design and stone with rStones.. That works but does require an extra step or two...

The Dizzy is a great companion to rStones for what it does... 

Kevin


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

OK. As stated, I no longer have it on my pc and never used it much when I had it. I guess you could say I am spoiled as I had Smart Cut Pro and now use Stone Cut Pro. I started my rhinestone journey with DAS. Not saying that it is the be all and end all to rhinestone software. Just seems clunky to have to have two or three macros/plug ins/pieces of software to accomplish making a design and figuring out what to charge.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

jean518 said:


> I started my rhinestone journey with DAS. Not saying that it is the be all and end all to rhinestone software. Just seems clunky to have to have two or three macros/plug ins/pieces of software to accomplish making a design and figuring out what to charge.


I would love to try the Stone Cut Pro... Too bad they don't have a demo... I do plan on getting in touch with them next week. There isn't really much info on the software and what little there is I'm not blown away... Now there are some nifty little tricks here and there for sure... But I can see past all that and what I'm really interested in is the basics... 

Here's a basketball graphic I created... About as basic as it gets... How does Stone Cut Pro handle this?... My guess is I'm going to have just as much "tweaking" in Stone Cut Pro as I am just using CorelDRAW and a Macro or two... I don't know that.. But that's my guess... So if I have same work in the end to "tweak" the design is Stone Cut really worth it for me?... That's what I ask myself...

All the frills in Stone Cut are cool... But those frills really aren't going to make the design process any quicker...

I just watched this video on YouTube... There aren't many...

How to Create a Rhinestone Template Design Stone Cut Pro Rhinestone Software (Digital Art Solutions) - YouTube

If I was DAS... I wouldn't want this video on YouTube... The design being demonstrated is as about as simple as it gets and the process to stone the design... The same process I can do in CorelDRAW and rStones in the same amount of time... Now that's not to say rStones is "better"... But one is $50.00 on is more than 10 times that... The frills in Stone Cut Pro are cool and useful... But if the most basic function in creating rhinestone templates is roughly the same process as another solution for $50.00... It make the decision process a little more difficult...

Now I have to shift my focus... Do I purchase Stonce Cut Pro for the extra frills... Do I really need them? I don't know?... I wish I had a better understanding and could use the software first hand to really get a feel for it...

Care to run my basketball design thru it and just see the point and click results with Stone Cut Pro?

Thanks,

Kevin


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

First issue with graphic - 2 layers. Had to ungroup and remove one layer. I had two colors, pink and blue. After that no problem. Did the place rhinestones and it placed them as seen in the pic. No tweaking.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

There is another video there actually by Digital Art Solutions. Did you look at it? Stone Cut Overview is the title.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry, Stone Cut Pro Overview. It is by Craig Mertens. The one in you link is from Matt at The Rhinestone World. Craig is the CEO of Digital Art Solutions. I think there are a couple at that location by DAS. Look at the list to the right when you click the link you provided for You Tube video.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

jean518 said:


> First issue with graphic - 2 layers. Had to ungroup and remove one layer. I had two colors, pink and blue. After that no problem. Did the place rhinestones and it placed them as seen in the pic. No tweaking.


Yeah I did the two layers as I wanted the outline which you have and the blue bits for the fill...

Now that said if Smart Cut Pro is really that smart to produce what you show.. Tha'ts pretty sweet indeed... 

Her's the rStones output... 10 seconds... But there are some issues... Where the two curve objects meet the outline... There are overlapping stones top and bottom... Not an issue to get rid off but is Stone Cut Pro eliminated that overlap automatically that's cool... In the demonstrations I've seen Stone Cut Pro would show us the overlaps but we still had to delete those on our own.. Granted we can delete all overlaps at once... But I too have a free Macro for CorelDRAW that will delete all overlaps... So that's not such a huge thing...

What has me more exicted in this basic sample... Is the horizontal stone line in the middle of the basketball... It may have been a fluke? But in your example the horizontal stones line up perfectly to the two curves on either side... You can see in my rStones example they don't line up at all as each path is stoned in rStones individually. rStones doesn't take into consideration other surrounding stones... Where from your example here it would appear that Stone Cut Pro does take other surrounding stone into consideration... If this is true... It's HUGE!... It may too just be a fluke?... 

But for this example... YOU WIN!... Stone Cut Pro produced a better result on the outline untouched then rStones did... 

Now if you look at the second image... You can see with rStones the two curve lines on each side do not line up perfectly with the outline stones on the perimeter... In your example with Stone Cut Pro they do... That of course looks much better... Now you can see in the thrid image... The "tweaked" image with CorelDRAW and rStones... It looks like your image... But it took about 2-3 minutes of editing to get it to look like that...

I would want to see a broader array of project results... But at first glance.. I can see the benefit... rStones is still the HOT ticket for something wanting to get their feet wet... But if you know this is your thing and you can get consistently better results as shown in this example with Stone Cut Pro... I would drop the cash in a second!... I'm just not 100% convinced that this wasn't a fluke... Because all the other example I've seen demonstrated with Stone Cut Pro... The designs took about the same "tweaking" as I have to do with rStones results.

I will say this where I win in my book... The rStones simulated stone... Beats the Stone Cut Pro simulation hands down... LOL... But thats a personal preference more than anything...

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

jean518 said:


> Sorry, Stone Cut Pro Overview. It is by Craig Mertens. The one in you link is from Matt at The Rhinestone World. Craig is the CEO of Digital Art Solutions. I think there are a couple at that location by DAS. Look at the list to the right when you click the link you provided for You Tube video.


Yes I did see a couple other videos plus the ones on the DAS website but as a whole there really isn't alot of details... Usually at these tradeshows and video demonstrations what you see demonstrated is a perfect scenario... So you're like WOW!...

But then you get home and you work on a real world project and it's not click, click bam you're done...

Years ago I bought DRAWings the embroidery software... When I saw it demonstrated I was like WOW!... Of course when I actually got the software it wasn't just click, click and click and I'm done like I had seen demonstrated... 

Now it was still great software... I use it all the time... But it took me to really learn it lots of time... To really learn it to ultimately be really useful...

I've heard very mixed feelings on the DAS .. So my guess it's not going to be click, click bam and I'm done... My guess is it's going to take some time to really learn the software.

Kevin


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

They tell you upfront not all designs are wham/bam you are done. There is a learning curve. They tell you to read the manual FIRST which is off putting to a lot of people. You can read and do which I think is best - at least for me. If you have graphics experience, then the learning curve is not as bad. The best thing to to is take a design that is one you want to see in stones and see if they will do it as a demo for you. Not all designs are easy. I will tell you I have spent time on a design to get it to suit me. I get anal about spacing. From what I have seen of some of your graphics, you have the idea down as to how to make a design better for stoning. I do not think there is a software out there that does it perfect especially on complex designs. All in how particular you are about placement. Will it do fills, yes. Are they always absolutely perfect - no. You do have angle and other parameters you can change to achieve the best looking fill. Once you realize that there needs to be spacing allowed for the stones to fit, you will be more successful. Hard to get two stones to lie nicely in a tight space as in some letters lie N and M. If you have specific questions as to how it does things, call them. I think you can arrange a private demo.


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## Jeff Harrison (Oct 23, 2009)

katruax said:


> Here's the rStones output... 10 seconds... But there are some issues... Where the two curve objects meet the outline... There are overlapping stones top and bottom... Not an issue to get rid off but is Stone Cut Pro eliminated that overlap automatically that's cool...


hi Kevin, you're overlooking an critical section in rStones to clean up collisions. I don't know anything about Stone Cut's way to deal with these situations, but there are a few choices in rStone's drop down. Here's an animation.


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## Jeff Harrison (Oct 23, 2009)

jean518 said:


> They tell you upfront not all designs are wham/bam you are done. There is a learning curve.


THANKS for this! Regardless of the software used, this is 100% true.

We sometimes see some frantic people looking to do this: Buy our product then convert a very pixelated jpeg to perfectly spaced rhinestones, so they call SELL a shirt - that _very same day_. 

There's craftsmanship involved for quality designs.

2 other considerations.

1. being at least an intermediate CorelDRAW user is _very _helpful. It's important to know the difference between bitmaps and vectors. Some folks think basic CorelDRAW training is part of the deal.... ummm. no.

Knowing how to draw lines, how to weld and trim shapes etc.... ALL expected.

2. Be realistic about the output device's mechanical production capabilities and tolerances. And also the integrity of the stencil material. Otherwise ALL the work done at the design stage may need to be re-done to allow for those limitations.

To summarize... the best designs come from serious, thoughtful, creative, and realistic people. 

One of our customers from Germany recently sent me photos of items from their Indonesian production line. Hundreds of their employees crank out commercial rhinestone designs for clothes found at the mall. I'll see if he doesn't mind me posting his examples of what's possible. Because.... there's a _slight difference _in appeal and expectations between a single shirt for 150.00 / 200.00 and what a hobbyist makes.


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## Jeff Harrison (Oct 23, 2009)

BHD said:


> Kudos to Sick Puppy for showing this technique to the forum!


Wow, I didn't know it would work this smoothly...

I made a clearer image / animation for those who might need one. 

Note that _normally _I Weld by simply pressing w. I assigned that in the CorelDRAW options as a hotkey.


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

katruax said:


> See this is why I post these things... To learn... I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing though?
> 
> The purpose of the video and the excitement about Dizzy is because rStones can't do what I was looking to do at least I don't think it can?... rStones as I understand it works with only "stones".
> 
> ...


 I may be a bit confused on what you are referring to but in rStones you can create dots only or stones only. When I am designing I work with just the dots in rStones. Once the design is completed and I am ready to show the customer, I will then click the button to make simulated stones. All of that is done in rStones so I am not sure I understand what it is you said you can't do with the program.


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

Jeff Harrison said:


> hi Kevin, you're overlooking an critical section in rStones to clean up collisions. I


Hello Jeff,

If I'm over complicating it then I'm just going to look like an idiot... LOL... But at least you'll get a glimpse into how an average user thinks... Remember I'm a programmer myself but in JavaScript for Photoshop... As I'm developing I often think more as a programmer than I think as my end user... So what I think is obvious my end user thinks... WHAT THE HECK!

I don't know that I overlooked the section of rStones that deals with the clean up of collisions so much... Perhaps I was too quick to somewhat dismiss the option?...

One of rStones strengths for me is it's udder simplicity... That said when I attempted to use the function you demonstrated, as you demonstrated my results are much different than yours and are basically "unusable"... See animation below...

I've tried every which way to duplicate exactly what you showed... without success.. 

I noticed you were using SS30 stones... 

What I did was open the file I posted earlier.. Deleted the fill shapes and dealt just with the outline as you did... I stoned the outline... So far our results were similar even though I used a different stone size than you did...

I then did simply as you did... Intersections... No distance option for Shift and Delete... I then get several stones deleted with very large gaps at each intersection... I would then have to go in and tweak all those stones between each intersection... Where the lines intersected were nice and clean and lined up good... But the gaps that were left behind at each intersection not so much... 

To really do it right... You would have to add a stone at each area between the intersections and then respace the stones to fit the available area... See animation below...

In my quest to get it right without much tweaking... One more option I thought... What if I made each "segment" between every intersection it's own line segment?... 

BINGO!... I stone the lines... Use the Intersection clean up using the same settings like you did... Then I get similar results to what you demonstrated... And it required no further tweaking. See animation below...


It took a bit more work on my part but easily doable... But a little more work none the less.

So that brings me back full circle to what I originally demonstrated... Making each line segment a separate line at the intersecting points I was able to duplicate what you demonstrated... But that took a bit of work... So I simply used rStones to stone my lines... Then delete the overlaps manually as using the rStones function I always seem to get large gaps at the intersections... Then I tweaked the stones to match up better at the intersections. 

*So what's the magic secret?... How come you didn't get the large gaps at the intersections that I got? Did you use some kind of "smoke and mirrors"?...*

I joke because my customers are always asking why did it look so easy at the trade show?... I explain I'm not using any special secrets or smoke and mirrors... I just know what I'm doing so I get results that are expected as I demonstrated... You don't know what you are doing... Thus you don't get the same results... If you want to have the same slick results I demonstrated... Then you simply need to educate yourself on how the program works and you'll have a lot more hair left on your head...

Kevin


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## katruax (Sep 30, 2010)

veedub3 said:


> I may be a bit confused on what you are referring to but in rStones you can create dots only or stones only. When I am designing I work with just the dots in rStones. Once the design is completed and I am ready to show the customer, I will then click the button to make simulated stones. All of that is done in rStones so I am not sure I understand what it is you said you can't do with the program.



Hello Vee,

What I was originally demonstrating is using a True Type Rhinestone font... Not a design that was created with rStones...

When you use a True Type Rhinestone font those dots are not created by rStones... So as far as rStones is concerned they are just dots because... Well, they are just dots... LOL

So I can't simply select the dots and replace with simulated stones with rStones... rStones doesn't see those dots as stones... When rStones creates a "stone" whether that is a filled circle or a simulated stone it gives the object a special naming convention... So it knows what objects are stones and what aren't...

Now BHD did show a "work around" where you can select the dots of the font and then stone those with simulated stones with rStones... That does work but then you have to go and delete the original objects... It would actually be kind of nice to have a checkbox in rStones to delete original path or something like that...

With the Dizzy Macro... I can select the dots and replace with a simulated stone created by rStones and the original dots are deleted automatically... It's a minor point really... It's not that much work to go and delete the originals manually...

But initially you were saying that rStones can replace objects with simulated stones and while it can... Not in the way the way that was initially demonstrated with the Dizzy Macro...

Did I further complicate things?... LOL

Kevin


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ohhhhhhhh Okay I get what you are saying now. I have never used a stone font made by someone else so I actually had to do it to see and yes you are correct.


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## Jeff Harrison (Oct 23, 2009)

katruax said:


> Hello Jeff,
> In my quest to get it right without much tweaking... One more option I thought... What if I made each "segment" between every intersection it's own line segment?...


Yes, since each segment has it's own start and end points, the math works out for these cases.

Of course... a vector artist needs to understand how to draw curves. BUT, controlling and dividing segments from a curve is the next level of knowledge. That means about

• adding and deleting nodes
• "Breaking" the curve, then breaking apart yet again to get the pieces.

Anyway, the nice thing about segments is that regardless of stone size, things line up nicely at the start and end points, as shown here:


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