# do you need special inks for dye sub mugs, mousepads, etc, or is the paper enough?



## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

hey just wondering if you need to buy sublimation ink to print on things like mugs etc or is the paper enough?


thanks


----------



## thesignshop (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*

you need sub paper for best results. Also your mugs need a special laquer as it simply doesn't work.
Hope this helps


----------



## CarlT (May 23, 2007)

*Re: sublimation*

There are papers for hard goods that will allow you to use regular inks on mugs and such. I have never done this so I can't really comment on that.

I use sublimation for the above plus much more though and you must have sublimation ink to do sublimation, lol. Sounds simple...I guess it is.

most sublimatrion is done at 400 F and 1 minute, though I sub my shirts at 40 secs (calls for 30).


But no, you can sub on mugs, mousepads and such using pigment or dye inks, preferably pigment.


----------



## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*



EkkoGraphics said:


> There are papers for hard goods that will allow you to use regular inks on mugs and such. I have never done this so I can't really comment on that.
> 
> I use sublimation for the above plus much more though and you must have sublimation ink to do sublimation, lol. Sounds simple...I guess it is.
> 
> ...


pigment ink is via a ciss?

thanks


----------



## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*



ruch1v said:


> hey just wondering if you need to buy sublimation ink to print on things like mugs etc or is the paper enough?
> 
> 
> thanks


Dye sublimation requires three things:
Dye sublimation ink (which turns into a gas when heated)
Dye sublimation paper (which lets the ink release when it becomes gaseous)
A polymer coated or polyester item that the ink will absorb into

As the others have mentioned, there are also inkjet transfers and laser transfers that cover a wide variety of these types of products as well. The advantage of dye-sub to me, is pretty much the glossy eyecatching look from coasters, puzzles, mugs, etc.


----------



## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: sublimation*



joeshaul said:


> Dye sublimation requires three things:
> Dye sublimation ink (which turns into a gas when heated)
> Dye sublimation paper (which lets the ink release when it becomes gaseous)
> A polymer coated or polyester item that the ink will absorb into
> ...


Very nice breakdown, the only thing I would add is the transfer for sublimation is high bond regular paper. The ink when heated to 400 degrees and the ink turns to a gas that perminates the polyener coated items. .... JB


----------



## CarlT (May 23, 2007)

*Re: sublimation*



ruch1v said:


> pigment ink is via a ciss?
> 
> thanks


If you use an one of the Epson Photo Printers, which are common in sublimation, they have very nice Pigment ink in them. So you don't have to buy a CISS for it, but if you intend to do many many prints it will save money in the long run.
I use a C88+ for sublimation, though I am looking to go wider with a couple of 1400's 
Right now I use an R260 for standard heat transfers. It has Claria ink and the colors POP! Very nice. I will get a 1400 with standard inks so I can print 13 X 19 and cover the shirt.


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*

Good comments. I would add that not all mugs are created equal. So buy from a company that
has a large selection with a good reputation for consistent quality (packaging, shape, hard coating)

David Gross


----------



## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*



joeshaul said:


> Dye sublimation requires three things:
> Dye sublimation ink (which turns into a gas when heated)
> Dye sublimation paper (which lets the ink release when it becomes gaseous)
> A polymer coated or polyester item that the ink will absorb into
> ...


 
thanks for the help, towards the end of your post you mentioned polymer coating, if for example i bought a regular item, would i be able to buy the polymer seperately to coat it with? if so is that this? 
Sublimation Coat-Best Sublimation from China-Sublimation,Sublimação,Sublimación,Sublimazione,Photo Crystal(foto cristal),Heat Press,Mug,Tile

thanks


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*

For products like mugs the answer is a loud NO. These coating must meed FDA requirements for lead and
cadmium. Yes there coatings out there but understand they must be applied correctly. I have personally
used an automotive clear coat for testing new types of tiles.

David Gross


----------



## thesignshop (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*

Have you tried Artanium (Sublimation Ink) ink from Sawgrass? Works for me!!


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

*Re: do you need special inks for dye sub mugs, or is the paper enough?*

I greatly prefer Artainium. I have found the Artainium inks flow beter, have brighter colors and using
the epson driver, print faster.

David Gross


----------



## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: sublimation*



Conde_David said:


> For products like mugs the answer is a loud NO. These coating must meed FDA requirements for lead and
> cadmium. Yes there coatings out there but understand they must be applied correctly. I have personally
> used an automotive clear coat for testing new types of tiles.
> 
> David Gross


i see, where can you get the coating from?

thanks


----------



## ruch1v (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: do you need special inks for dye sub mugs, or is the paper enough?*

hey my titles changed:S i dont just want it on mugs, but all items such asmousemats, plastics keyrings,lighters etc


----------



## BigBear (Aug 15, 2007)

*Re: do you need special inks for dye sub mugs, or is the paper enough?*



ruch1v said:


> hey my titles changed:S i dont just want it on mugs, but all items such asmousemats, plastics keyrings,lighters etc


Sublimation is sublimation. Any item can be sublimated if it has a polymer coating. The gas from the transfer goes into the coating on the item; not the item itself.

In the case of fabrics, the fibers must be synthetic. In this situation, the subliming process causes the gas to actually go into the fibers. Since it becomes a part of the fabric, you again, cannot feel anything.

Polyester is the most common fabric. There are others: nylon (very tricky because of the sublimation temperatures required) and most types of satin, to name a few. I have a few clients offering upscale satin totes that are beautiful.

Quality coatings not applied with professional equipment look amateurish at best. At worst, if the coating is not applied in a dust controlled environment and within a correct temperature and humidity range, it will delaminate.

I made my first sublimation print in 1981 and would sooner try to fly by flapping my arms, than try to coat my own products.

That doesn't even take into account that some of the possible coating materials are carcinogenic and explosive.

Others may have differing knowledge.


----------



## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: do you need special inks for dye sub mugs, or is the paper enough?*

If you want to know more about the sublimation process you should go to DyeSub.org - An educational site for dye sublimation and digital transfer printing. which is dedicated to sublimation.


----------



## lindsayanng (Oct 3, 2008)

thanks for the link.. i jsut read through and got a few answers.

i NEED to buy a mug that is made for dye sub. because of the polymer coating.

SOME epson printers come with inks that are made for dye sub. (i read that inkjet is NOT dye sublimintion) but which printers? Any suggestions? Are there printers that dont COME with the ink, but you can get the actual cartridges for?

Is there another alternative to dye sublimination that can still do mugs, mousepads, ect??

What about putting an image on plastic?? like a plastic key chain..


----------



## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

lindsayanng said:


> thanks for the link.. i jsut read through and got a few answers.
> 
> i NEED to buy a mug that is made for dye sub. because of the polymer coating.
> 
> ...


Most Epson printer come with pigment ink (if not all), which will not work for sublimation. 
For sub you have to buy the ink for it.
Another alternative is pad printing, it is great for pens, key chains, mugs and a zillion more things.
The only problem is a pad printer (last time I checked ) was about $3000.


----------



## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

lindsayanng said:


> SOME epson printers come with inks that are made for dye sub. (i read that inkjet is NOT dye sublimintion) but which printers? Any suggestions? Are there printers that dont COME with the ink, but you can get the actual cartridges for?
> 
> Is there another alternative to dye sublimination that can still do mugs, mousepads, ect??
> 
> What about putting an image on plastic?? like a plastic key chain..


The carts are available I believe for all of the Epson printers, however retail printers do not come with dye sub ink. 

There are laser transfers for mugs, however you have to apply a glaze to them afterwards. From what I've read it seemed like more skill/technique required with less durability. There are inkjet (and I think possibly laser) transfers for mousepads, JetPro SoftStretch can be used on garments, mouse pads, and a few other things and is one of the most boasted transfer papers. 

CASI/QLT sells some keychains that you can lock photos inside of, while not as neat as sublimation it's something 

As Marcelo mentioned, there's also pad printing, which is very similar to screen printing, but on a smaller scale. You basically burn a screen for the inks, apply the ink to a stamp, and stamp the ink through the screen to make all kinds of different things (golf balls, pens, mugs, etc).


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Sublimation is a powerful decorating technology that works with many epson printers. You will need the
printer, sublimation inks, sublimation release paper, heat press and something to sublimate to. My suggestion is that you stay on proven path. I recommend that you find a vendor that can help you make good decisions.


----------



## lindsayanng (Oct 3, 2008)

Ohh pad printing sounds exciting. But $3000 is way beyond my budget. 

I will most definitely look into those keychains that you can lock photos inside of. That is what our printer does for us. They also have a travel mug that you can lock a picture inside of and its water proof. 

My first idea was the inkjet paper, but you are right.. WAY more work and skill required to get those to look right.. I looked into water slide decals, rub on, ect.. ALL the options for inkjet.. i decided on buying the REAL supplies..


----------



## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Pad printing is a PIA!. You are only working with a 4x6 (usually) plate..you have to get the image, burn a plate, wash, dry without spots, put on the film on the pad printer..using small squeeze spread the ink, pick up with the pad..swing over and push down...hoping you have the registration right... Two things I will never ever do again....screen printing and pad printing...I either use plastisol or out source...let someone else breathe the fumes etc...not me


----------



## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

charles95405 said:


> Pad printing is a PIA!. You are only working with a 4x6 (usually) plate..you have to get the image, burn a plate, wash, dry without spots, put on the film on the pad printer..using small squeeze spread the ink, pick up with the pad..swing over and push down...hoping you have the registration right... Two things I will never ever do again....screen printing and pad printing...I either use plastisol or out source...let someone else breathe the fumes etc...not me


 What does PIA means ? 
Send a PM if it goes against the forums rules 
Screen printing is cool, and a little bit dirty.


----------



## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

PIA...pain in the ***


----------



## lindsayanng (Oct 3, 2008)

haha.. i feel like every forum should have a commonly used acronyms section.. there were a few that i heard for over a YEAR before i figured out what they meant.


----------



## marcelolopez (Jul 16, 2007)

charles95405 said:


> PIA...pain in the ***


I should have guessed !!!


----------



## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Yes, take a look at some of the posting regarding sublimation. In short, you need a system and someone to walk you through learning to use it. I am in love with sublimation as a very powerful decorating technology.

Take a look at:
A & E - The Sublimation Almanac 2008

This is the digital version of the Sublimation Almanac.
I wrote one of the articles and helped with the Q&A

It will help you get to know our world.

Let me know what you think!


----------



## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Thanks for that link David. I have been knocking around sublimation for about 8 years and I had never been to that site... Interesting, informative and valuable for those considering this line of biz


----------

