# Article: The Demise of Flash



## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

http://fadtastic.net/2006/12/11/the-demise-of-flash-8-main-reasons/

If you are thinking of using Flash on your website (or you already have a Flash website), this article will give you a lot to think about.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

hear hear!!


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Demise implies it had a life in the first place  This is just people who should have known better realising they were wrong all along... like people who wore legwarmers in the 80s. Or people who had big frizzy hair in the 80s. Or people who wore garish colours in the 80s. Or people who wore cheesy lounge suits in the 80s. Or the 80s.

I'm glad it touched on the number one reason I hate flash: it prevents you from using a website in the way we as users choose to use websites (i.e. no bookmarking, and no right clicking). Personally when I view a website I systematically open half the site in new tabs, then go through them. It's efficient. Flash prevents me from doing that, and if I can't look at a site efficiently I won't look at it at all.

Reason 6 makes a lot of good points. In general it's nice to see the tide turning, and the article does make some good points if people are still stubbornly refusing to move on.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

A little flash is ok but most use it way too much and it takes way too long to load, no matter what your online speed is.


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

I don't see such a problem with flash or legwarmers. I think a lot of it has to do with the designers who design the sites. just like the hair. A little teasing was okay, but those girls who had those HUGE wave/fountain spewing from the front was ridiculous!

Maybe like the 80's flash will make a comback. Flashdance 2 (pun intended).


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

> but those girls who had those HUGE wave/fountain spewing from the front was ridiculous!


Classic, you could ride those waves. 

Scarry thing is you still see people wearing those do's............
anyone got a mullet <g>


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

Fluid said:


> Classic, you could ride those waves.
> 
> Scarry thing is you still see people wearing those do's............
> anyone got a mullet <g>


That was the female version of a mullet! I remember seeing two girls just laying on the Aquanet to get that look.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I'm glad it touched on the number one reason I hate flash: it prevents you from using a website in the way we as users choose to use websites (i.e. no bookmarking, and no right clicking). Personally when I view a website I systematically open half the site in new tabs, then go through them. It's efficient. Flash prevents me from doing that, and if I can't look at a site efficiently I won't look at it at all.



I always go through websites the same way. I don't know how I ever lived without tabs.

Flash is a fad, just like those God-awful legwarmers (Do you want warm legs? wear pants!). Unfortunately there are plenty of people who still think that Flash is the new hotness, and there's nothing you can do or say to convince them otherwise. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Flash manages to hang on for a few more years. Adobe is still developing it, and there are plenty of people who have invested a lot of their time and money in learning how to use it. Hard to break those old habits.


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## EternylStudios (Mar 26, 2006)

a fad wow....craziness.... 
I would think there are a great number of developers that disagree.

tech moves forward - rarely ever backwards....what's this guy thinking?

despite personal preference....
calling flash a fad is harsh way to describe vector based web design.

that would be like calling adobe illustrator a fad in graphic design.

I'm probably biased because our site is pure flash with long initial load times, mainly because that is the customer we are presenting to.

A big business with a T3 or greater line, and looking to be on the cutting edge.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

EternylStudios said:


> calling flash a fad is harsh way to describe vector based web design.


No, it's an accurate way to describe Flash.

Vector based web design ≠ flash, so writing off one is not automatically writing off the other.


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

It reminds me of when I first got into design. I went to work for a company where the owner wouldn't buy a Mac becuse it was on it's way out.


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## EternylStudios (Mar 26, 2006)

Solmu said:


> No, it's an accurate way to describe Flash.
> 
> Vector based web design ≠ flash, so writing off one is not automatically writing off the other.


actually flash is vector.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> actually flash is vector.


I think Solmu was trying to say that although flash is vector, vector doesn't have to be flash. So you can have a vector based web design without flash.

But I could be wrong


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## EternylStudios (Mar 26, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I think Solmu was trying to say that although flash is vector, vector doesn't have to be flash. So you can have a vector based web design without flash.
> 
> But I could be wrong


of course...but Adobe Flash is the standard by far....at least on the web.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

There are cetain sites that Flash will do very well, ie movie and entertainment. Ecommerce? I'm not so sure, especially if you rely on keywords. Flash will have its place, but it has certainly died down a lot compare to a couple of years ago.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

I like to equate an ecommerce site to refs in a sporting event. The site is only there for 1 purpose. That's to get people to buy your products. You don't want the site to get in the way of the goal, just like the refs shouldn't get in the way of the game.

Referees are barely noticed in a good game, and shouldn't affect the outcome of the game. They are only there to help facilitate the running of the game. Same as the site. It is only there to facilitate the purchase transaction.

Flash is like a bad ref., just getting in the way. No matter how "cool" it looks, the bottom line is that it takes the attention away from what you want the customer to be doing, which is BUYING your products. You shouldn't want them thinking about how cool your site is, and how good the flash looks on the site. You want them to be thinking about how bad they want your products, and where is the button to get to the transaction.

Why people choose to "distract" the customer with flash baffles me.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I think Solmu was trying to say that although flash is vector, vector doesn't have to be flash. So you can have a vector based web design without flash.


Exactly. One doesn't have to equate to the other.

Even I think Flash is great for some things (Threadless's scoring system for example), but personally I'm not a fan for general web design.


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## cottagecraftsmen (Oct 28, 2006)

Before I had DSL (which I got in 2000) I would avoid any and all Flash websites. Some were only Flash. Over designed, yet no real usable content. I feel if I need to make 3 clicks to get to your e-mail address, I'm going to ignore you. If I have to wait 60 seconds for a site to load, she better be pretty and have an awesome pair of tits.
In my sign shop, I offer Coroplast, Polystyrene and Steel signage. Magnetic signage, decals and banners. The materials are just not that interesting. Most customers have two questions. How much? How soon?
Getting into information about what brand magnet I use was just not too high on the list. I had a web site developer pitch me fancy graphics for the emphasis of the quality products I use...
The truth is I don't care. I shop for materials just like my customers do. Cheaper is what I want. Nothing makes someone's eye glaze over like a discussion about Avery vs. Oracal vinyl. Me, I use the cheap stuff ShineRite from Ameriban, my banner blanks from Eagle banners, because they are cheapest.
At my little shop, the question is, "can I get that 24x24 black on yellow Coroplast sign for $25 and pick it up first thing tomorrow?" If the answer is yes, I get to ring up $25. If the answer is no, I get to ring up "No Sale". 
This post is getting as tediously long as most Flash "presentations" so I will end it here.


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## ThatJoshGuy (Dec 11, 2006)

Honestly, simply becasue a few sites out there use flash in extreme ways, doesnt' mean that it's going to die out. A lot of websites have a ton of animated GIFs on them, or crazy backgrounds... Does that mean MySpace is going to die out? (Sorry, couldn't resist... it's the Devil's soupspoon)

Flash, like any other web design tool, can be utilized in a way that does not affect the user besides being a little more stimulating. Yes, I am definately biased, and just as guilty for using flash in the truckloads on older sites, but I'm older and wiser now.

I won't even begin to describe all the fields (besides the internet) that flash is used in now... Ok, maybe a few: Profesional animation, multimedia presentations, online training, marketing, the video game industry... the list goes on and on.

Flash isn't dying. It's become central the the web in many ways, I doubt the two can be truly seperated at this point. Yes, you're site may not contain one snippet of flash, and that's fantastic for you... But now you want to add streaming video on your site that will work regardless of browser, OS, and installed software... where do you turn? YouTube? That's flash video baby... all of those sites are...
Want to add straming music (and no, not MIDI, thank GOD that's nearly dead)? Drop in a flash mp3 player. Navigation? Done. Dynamic banner animation and/or rotation? Done. Kick-*** product display? Done and DONE.

No I don't work for Adobe... But to say that people shouldn't use a product simply because some abuse that right is just silly. I'm not saying the author of this topic was saying anything like that, but that's how I took the article. 

Yes, you should THINK about how you're going to use ANY web technology. Think about how it's going to affect your customer, think about the pros and cons, and PLAN AHEAD. That alone will save us all a lot of trouble.

It's like Spidey says: With great power comes.... ahh nevermind...


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

A wild guess, your a big Flash fan?


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## ThatJoshGuy (Dec 11, 2006)

Vtec44 said:


> A wild guess, your a big Flash fan?


Well, yes and no. I an amateur animator, so in that respect, I love flash. Not only that, but it's _fun_ to draw in... so wee!

I do, however, agree with the notion that it is often overdone and misused. That article held some merit, sure, but the response it garners is a little over the top... and that title... sheesh!

Used propperly, yes, I'm a huge Flash fan... but that about sums it up. I also cringe every single time I see a flash splash page...


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ThatJoshGuy said:


> Does that mean MySpace is going to die out? (Sorry, couldn't resist... it's the Devil's soupspoon)


MySpace is going to die out: there's plenty of precedent.



ThatJoshGuy said:


> Flash, like any other web design tool, can be utilized in a way that does not affect the user besides being a little more stimulating.


I suppose I should clarify my position: what I mean to say is *conspicuous* use of Flash is going to be dead. Flash that people notice. Flash that even a non tech savvy user will know is Flash. Front of house Flash. Flash as it is currently used on the majority of sites. Flash that screams "Look at me! I am flash!". Flash as we know it. 

It's damn useful for some things (like the embedded video example you gave, or the Threadless scoring system I mentioned above), but for website navigation or a way to gussy up a site... I think people will eventually come to their senses. For behind the scenes stuff there's every chance it will be made rapidly obsolete, so admittedly I wouldn't necessarily be betting on it there either.

Flash is a useful tool, but only when it's more or less invisible to the user. If the first thing a person thinks is "this is flash" and not "nifty" then it has failed.

Will Adobe Flash the product cease to exist? Maybe not anytime soon. Will "Flash!" the concept die? Yes (or at least it should, and there are signs).


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## ThatJoshGuy (Dec 11, 2006)

Well, I can't say that I agree, but I can understand your viewpoint. There are plenty of signs that it is on the way out, but I believe that people such as the folks at coldhardflash.com and especially (my hero) mudbubble.com are finding new and better ways of utilizing flash.

stepping back a sec, mudbubble.com SHOULD be a site that I despise... it's got a splash page, it's got flash everywhere... and yet, it's so well done... No, it's not ECommerce, because that's not the place for flash, but... well, just go look...

(to be fair though, it's a portfolio site... for a flash artist... so maybe i'm cheating)


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

ThatJoshGuy said:


> stepping back a sec, mudbubble.com SHOULD be a site that I despise... it's got a splash page, it's got flash everywhere... and yet, it's so well done... No, it's not ECommerce, because that's not the place for flash, but... well, just go look...


It loads fast and clear, which is definitely good. Although I could do without having to wait through the animation (I *hate* animated DVD menus too), and Syd Barrett could do without the sound. Colour scheme is ugly and the text in the about pages is too small, but obviously neither of those is related to the flash. Maybe I'm missing something but other than the linked to portfolio content the site doesn't actually seem to use much flash (the entire intro, the top affiliations, etc. bar... that's it?). The main site is actually running off WordPress.


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

I remember when flash was still an infant and Macromedia was touting it for online maps and really simple stuff. how things have changed.


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## pauseisabove (Dec 19, 2006)

Sorry I disagree with the article. Alot of Flash sites unfortunately are built with only one idea to draw attention to something. If you use the correct tags and publish your FLA file from within Flash you do have searchability by the search engines. Another reason flash sites are slow is because people typically load all parent files in the same file instead of loadidng files externally ie: XML files, strings etc. There is alot of use for flash especially in developing applications using Actioscript and the ability to incorporate other coding into the application. If there is anyone considering building a site do alot of research beforehand and if you dont understand it make sure you hire someone who does.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I don't flash is all bad. There are definite uses for flash (games, applications, etc). There are also not so great uses for flash (like ecommerce)


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## pauseisabove (Dec 19, 2006)

I agree Rodney, except there are some really great e-commerce sites out there now. Check out www.swiffcart.com, they have a great add on and is really simply to incorporate and manage. sort of works like OS commerce, full fledged database, files load through xml files. I used it for one of my sites and liked it, the one drawback pretty expensive. That justs my two cents though. There are plenty of sites out there that use Flash incorrectly and it drives me nuts. There is nothing worse then having to wait for a flash movie which serves no purpose other than to look cool


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Matt said:


> I agree Rodney, except there are some really great e-commerce sites out there now. Check out www.swiffcart.com,


I still don't think flash has a place in ecommerce. Case in point, the link you posted 

This is what I get when I clicked the link:



swiffcart.com said:


> Flash Player Upgrade Required
> 
> In order to view swiffcart.com you will need to install/upgrade your Flash Player.


That just doesn't make any sense to me. That's a lost sale if your ecommerce site trying to get customers to give you money is powered by swiffcart.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 24, 2006)

It took me a while to figure out how to close the annoying cart LOL


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## pauseisabove (Dec 19, 2006)

I see your point , It is just hard to believe that flash is so disliked when it has so many great features for application building. Especially when integrating into a database. By the way that isnt my site, just something I used once


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> It is just hard to believe that flash is so disliked


I'm not sure that flash is really "so disliked" in general. I think just the wrong use of flash in the wrong places.

The understanding I got is when used for the right purpose, it's perfectly fine.


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## pauseisabove (Dec 19, 2006)

Yes I agree I just think consumers in general do not necessarily like it. Especially seeing how alot of people are not dropping the scripts to de-activate having to click on active content at anytime. Of course if Adobe would stick with a version it would help considerably.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Especially seeing how alot of people are not dropping the scripts to de-activate having to click on active content at anytime.


Does that mean there's something you can do to not make the "click here to activate content" box show up? 

I have a little flash game site that I just looked at in IE6 and the flash content shows up fine, but you have to click twice to start the game.


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## pauseisabove (Dec 19, 2006)

Yes there is, if you use dreamweaver it will automatically drop the script in there. However if you dont here is a link how to fix that problem.

http://www.amarasoftware.com/flash-problem.htm

If you need any help let me know. Does that mean I can self promote now??  lol, just kidding. Have a good night.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

pauseisabove said:


> Yes I agree I just think consumers in general do not necessarily like it.


We/they have just been abused one too many times  We've all seen enough poorly made flash sites to make our eyes bleed... once bitten, twice shy and all that. Some people are willing to get past that and give the well made sites a chance. Some (me for example) are not.


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## chowzer2 (Dec 28, 2006)

I like flash. I like its clean and smooth flowing presentation except for when you try and click back and it sends you to the intro. As long as the load times arnt long I like flash websites. I would make my website a flash website if I knew how to use Flash but Im not very good at it yet. I think the teen market (like me) also likes flash cuz its "high-tech" and it gives off a that cool feeling compared to a normal site.

also i think myspace is a fad... AIM was a fad now not nearly as many teens use it as before. before myspace all my friends were on AIM now i cant talk to anyone on AIM cuz they are all on myspace cuz it has more features. its like cell phones... kids dont talk on cell phones anymore they just text... why? cuz they can do it during class lol. its tru ask your kids if they text in class and they probably will lie and say no but they do because its harder for a teacher to catch.


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## pauseisabove (Dec 19, 2006)

Actually there are several ways to have use of the browser back forward button. The simplest maybe not most effective but simplest is to load anchors or javascript in the FLA file and have it load frames in HTML. That isnt the best explanation but for simplicity it works .


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## chowzer2 (Dec 28, 2006)

pauseisabove said:


> Actually there are several ways to have use of the browser back forward button. The simplest maybe not most effective but simplest is to load anchors or javascript in the FLA file and have it load frames in HTML. That isnt the best explanation but for simplicity it works .


 
hmm interesting. i didnt know that. I need to learn flash.


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## SantaA (Jan 3, 2007)

too much flash harms the usability. flash has to be used wisely. i had some web design clients who screwed up their sites because they just loved the nice little flashy animations. some people just don't want to listen and think they are the designers themselves.


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