# mugs...sublimation or screen printing?????



## Dretu Aliur (Nov 24, 2008)

what is better for printing mugs, sublimation or screen printed(cooked in kiln). Like which one holds up better to dishwashers,wear and tear and such.also please list any diffrences and pros and cons.


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## recrisp (Oct 25, 2007)

For me, I will just say that I made my wife and I a mug with hers having a Cardinal (photo) and leaves on it, and mine is black line-work, they both look brand new, and they are about 3 years old.
I used a mug wrap to do them, and an Epson printer using the (now defunct) TOG inks and paper.
They have both been used daily and are always washed in the (top rack of the) dishwasher, plus, they go into the microwave also.
Pretty tough stuff, I'd say.
On the other hand, I have had the other you mentioned, and they held up well too, but it was given to me, I didn't make it.
I have made a lot of others, and never had a complaint, so I assume they are holding up as good as mine are.

I know this is that helpful, but it might help some. 

Randy


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## conde tech (Nov 15, 2007)

The dye sublimation mugs will last the life of the mug. Where as all other fade with washing and usage.


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

There's pretty much three common mug decorating options:

Laser transfers. Never had one of these, but read about them before, they utilize a glaze system post transfer. From what I read they're not as durable as the others.

Pad printing (same as you refer to as screen printing, pad printing is just screen printing on a smaller format). Pad printing is the cheapest form for bulk orders and sometimes makes it a real pain to market mugs, primarily used for 1-2 color designs, however I'm sure there are some doing 4 color process printing too. The ink will eventually give way in washer, but it is considered a retailable product and when doing bulk, its ink costs are way less than sublimation, not doing bulk requires screen setups and everything else though. Also I don't believe any special coatings are used, so the blanks are a bit cheaper.

Dye sublimation. Very durable, full color. Problem is the production cost, the blank mugs generally run at least a $1.50, then your ink/print costs are a buck, then there's your time, then there's the covering the cost of a misprint/a mug that was cracked and you didn't notice/etc, then you have your profit. Dye sub's great for small orders of mugs, but if you get into dealing with retail outlets, they probably won't be able to sell the product without pricing it out of the range. Dunno bout your area, but in mine customers are used to buying mugs at stores for ~$10, which means I'd need to sell to the retailer at around $4-5, which isn't profitable with dye sub. If however you're selling your service, scanning/using people's photos to make the mug, making mugs for a company's team building event/etc, then that's where the money is for dye sub mugs.


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## cprvh (Jan 23, 2006)

Kiln fired decals will definitely last longer than any other method. Dye sublimation has come a long way. The new hard coatings are very, very good. The coating is the key. 

The complexity of your graphic and the quantity will determine which method will be suite your needs.


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## Rehaan (Nov 10, 2014)

cprvh said:


> Kiln fired decals will definitely last longer than any other method. Dye sublimation has come a long way. The new hard coatings are very, very good. The coating is the key.


Hi Cprvh & others,

Could you please tell me what the "coating" for dye sublimation is?

(I assume we're talking about heat-press transfer sublimation mugs kinda like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_DB3TVAws#t=158 ?)

Is there a coating step after the graphics are heat-pressed on?


Thanks,
Rehaan.


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## tippy (May 27, 2014)

The coating on sublimation mugs is added at the manufacture. It is a polyester coating that receives the sublimation ink. After you take the mug out of the press, the sublimation ink is sealed into the coating, making it as permanent as the coating. No additional sealer is required - you take the mug out of the press and it's done.


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## Rehaan (Nov 10, 2014)

tippy said:


> The coating on sublimation mugs is added at the manufacture.


Thanks a ton Tippy! That makes sense. 

A few more questions, if i may:

1) Other than buying a particular brand, is there any way to know/check how good the coating is (eg. if I'm getting mugs printed in a store).

2) Could you explain the kiln-fired decal process more (or tell me what terms to google) - i'm really having a hard time finding info / videos on kiln-fired decals for coffee mugs!

3) I read that for kiln fired decals you can't have 2 different colours touching each other? Is this true?


Thanks!
R


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Rehaan said:


> tippy said:
> 
> 
> > The coating on sublimation mugs is added at the manufacture. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## Rehaan (Nov 10, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> FYI at the link below.


Thanks mgparrish!

That helped me understand things better.

Given that decal printing is also a digital print, i can't see why it can't be customized (as mentioned on some other sites).

Another question: Pad printing vs Decal? (I understand the colour & registration limitations of pad printing - are there any other disadvantages or advantages)? 

Here's the rough layout of the artwork I'll be printing:








Thanks,
R


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Rehaan said:


> Thanks mgparrish!
> 
> That helped me understand things better.
> 
> ...


 All digital decal printing can be customized, including ceramic laser toner decals. In fact these can be "one offs" from a laser printer or copier.

You are confusing laser with other decal printing methods such as screen printing and offset printing. In these cases it is not economical to print "one-offs", this is only economical when the volumes are high enough to justify the set up time and expenses.

Technically any method can yield "customized" products, the question is how many "customized" items of the same design does one wish to purchase. 

I would defer to others opinions regarding pad printing.


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## stevealex (Jul 30, 2014)

Dye sub is best for mugs. Buy one direct from china like we did and you will save loads. It is exactly the same model you ncan buy in UK but well iunder half the price. svmicrotec is recommended


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

ACAG.ca - Ceramic and Glass Decal Decoration
"fylograf custom decals: Home page."
Ceramic Decals - Custom printed Water-slide Ceramic & Glass Decals Transfers


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## Eber (Sep 25, 2014)

stevealex said:


> Dye sub is best for mugs. Buy one direct from china like we did and you will save loads. It is exactly the same model you ncan buy in UK but well iunder half the price. svmicrotec is recommended


Why you say Dye sub is the best for mugs?

1.- Enduring long-term (scratch resistance):
Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No

2.- Printing on any form of cup/mug
Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No

3.- Printing on any substrate color
Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No

Dye Sub is easier but does not mean better.


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## Viper Graphics (Mar 28, 2009)

Eber said:


> Why you say Dye sub is the best for mugs?
> 
> 1.- Enduring long-term (scratch resistance):
> Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No
> ...


Neither is right or wrong or best or worst....the determining factor is your customer and what they want. Clip art graphics, just text or a photograph? How many printed on the mug/cup? just a couple or hundreds?. Just as some shirts it's better to print with plastisol and others are better with a vinyl application or DTG....there is no one size fits all.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

lmcawards said:


> Neither is right or wrong or best or worst....the determining factor is your customer and what they want. Clip art graphics, just text or a photograph? How many printed on the mug/cup? just a couple or hundreds?. Just as some shirts it's better to print with plastisol and others are better with a vinyl application or DTG....there is no one size fits all.


I have to disagree, as least as far as the _narrow context_ the OP focused on is 100% true. I'm a sublimator and have no equipment for kiln fired imprinting, so I don't really have a dog in this fight per se. 

I suspect that you are not really familiar with kiln fired decals, what the other gentleman stated is 100% true.

"1.- Enduring long-term (scratch resistance):
Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No

2.- Printing on any form of cup/mug
Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No

3.- Printing on any substrate color
Kiln Fire Decals: Yes, Dye Sublimation: No 

Dye Sub is easier but does not mean better."

There is another distinct advantage of kiln fired ceramics. The imaging will last _hundreds of years_ even in direct sunlight. In fact these are used for grave site memorial photo tiles exclusively. These are "one-offs" for sure, usually only 1 grave to decorate. 

Also, outdoor murals made from ceramics using kiln fired decals not only survive the elements, but graffiti paint can even be be removed from them.

Some sublimation mugs can withstand normal household dish-washing, but no way I would sell sub mugs into a place with industrial dishwashers and where the mugs get banged around into each other like in a commercial setting.

Your point about "How many printed on the mug/cup? just a couple or hundreds?" 

Kiln fired decals can be made on a laser printer or laser copier _1 or thousands_, just like digital printing sublimation transfers. No difference.

There are also screen printed kiln fired decals which in that case there is really a min qnty that would need to be made up in order to have an economically viable job.

But kiln fired ceramic decals made on laser are 100% print on demand _one or thousands_.

Ceramic table plates are also another example where people have one-offs made using the ceramic laser toner.

You are correct in that there is no "one size fits all solution". Sublimation has better image quality and is cheaper to do, as well as the equipment to do do laser ceramic decals is expensive generally $10 - $20K. But you can get a lot more money for product if it can survive outdoor UV and take a beating on the surface too.

Another place for kiln fired is for functional tiles such as showers, counter tops, and back splashes behind a stove, sublimation ceramics shouldn't be used there.

So for the 3 specific things the OP stated he is dead on.

I don't have that equipment, but I am nearby a equipment supplier for the equipment to make those and been at their facility and seen it first hand. _This stuff rocks._ It's not meant to replace cheap sublimation items used for cheap photo novelty items, it's for durable ceramics that can be "working surfaces".


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## rklovestruck (May 1, 2015)

We dye sublimate mugs because its more a one-off process for us. We order our blanks through ACP

Sublimation Mugs By Orca


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## Ripcord (Sep 2, 2006)

joeshaul said:


> Pad printing (same as you refer to as screen printing, pad printing is just screen printing on a smaller format).


I've never done pad printing but I've looked into it because at one point I was interested in printing golf balls. As I understand it, it uses an etched plate and a rubber pad (awkwardly known as a "tampon") to transfer ink to the substrate in an offset printing manner. I wasn't aware that it is similar at all to screen printing. I know that you can screen print on mugs using a system that somehow rotates the mug beneath the flat screen, but also this is something I've never done.


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## casim (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm looking for resellers of white and coloured mugs for heat transfer printing. Nor for sublimation.


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## Amw (Jul 2, 2012)

casim said:


> I'm looking for resellers of white and coloured mugs for heat transfer printing. Nor for sublimation.


If your looking to put adhesive backed vinyl or heat transfer film (HTV) on them.....ANY MUG WILL WORK. Open google up and search for wholesale mugs in the color/size you want.

You dont need anything special.


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## casim (Nov 7, 2007)

OK, thank you for this. I will google for wholesalers?

Thanks,

Pedro


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## gmcfarm (Mar 28, 2018)

Hi I was wondering if you could explain to me how I would go ahead and do these with the screen print. I do tees now with heat and I am thing about doing mugs for my daughters wedding. What would I need to buy for equipment?


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