# why does it cost so much to digitize an image for embroidery?



## newdude (May 21, 2008)

i've been asking around for quotes on getting embroidery done on the back of wool jackets. 

most embroidery places have a setup fee, typically $250 to $300, to digitize the image to instruct the embroidery machine where to stitch, when to change color, etc...

i have no idea how this software works, but unless someone is sitting at the computer and interacting with the software program and image for a few hours, I don't see how they could justify charging this much.

why does it cost so much to digitize an image for embroidery?

please advise. thanks.

and by the way, this is a one color job. there's two separate designs. one on the front breast and one on the whole back. the font is Stencil Std Bold. see attached for a sample of the jacket. And although the attached image is just a sample with "text here" on it, I do have the actual version ready to go. there's no prep work, other than digitizing, that needs to be done.


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## ajspin (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*

Hmm.. How to explain. I do my own digitizing and I do digitize for others. Digitizing software can be Very expensive, $5,000 - $35,000 and STILL you have to have the know how. No software will automatically digitize no matter what it says. Charges can be anywhere from 3 - 7 per thousand stitches, and a back logo like that would likely be in the 100,000 stitch range. 

Now, That Said, the most I charge for an image for the back of the Jacket is 65.00 unless it is extremely complicated, but that is low considering that it will take someone a minimum of 3 hours to digitize, then you sew it out. A sewout like that can take a couple of hours. Then you correct what doesn't look quite right, then sew it out again. I usually end up doing that at least 3 times before I am satisfied. Unlike Screen Printing, the # of colors means nothing. It is telling the machine where to place each and every stitch, and in a manner that it looks really good.


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*

thanks for the info and input. so it seems a digitizing fee is something that should be charged. i'm cool with that.

but is the $250 fee *for this particular job* (both front and back designs) reasonable or exorbitant???

please advise. thanks.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*



newdude said:


> thanks for the info and input. so it seems a digitizing fee is something that should be charged. i'm cool with that.
> 
> but is the $250 fee *for this particular job* (both front and back designs) reasonable or exorbitant???
> 
> please advise. thanks.


The best way to find out of it's reasonable is to contact 2-3 different embroidery shops (either in your area or online) and ask them for quotes on the job.

Different shops have different pricing and overhead, so it's hard to say if that person's shop was "too much". It was the right price for them to run a profitable business.

The forums aren't really intended to be a price comparison service for t-shirt printing.

More info in this thread here: I went to my local printer today and I want to know if this quote is right

*::thread note::* some posts have been moved out of this thread because we do not allow self promotion or offering your own services in the forum threads. Please try to provide educational/general information on digitizing fees without trying to sell the poster on your services ​


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*



newdude said:


> thanks for the info and input. so it seems a digitizing fee is something that should be charged. i'm cool with that.
> 
> but is the $250 fee *for this particular job* (both front and back designs) reasonable or exorbitant???
> 
> please advise. thanks.


Exorbitant very exorbitant. Any good digitizer can do that design in less than an hour.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*

I have noticed that in _general _large back designs with a higher threadcount are much higher in digitizing costs than front left chest designs.

For comparison, you can look at a site that offers digitizing (not my site, just showing for reference) to see how they price small designs versus larger designs.


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## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*

Digitizing is all based on stitch count, and the size of that design, is what makes it expensive to do. As with ever other service available someone will charge more, and someone will charge less. If you are not comfortable with the person you are working with or the prices for their service, then keep looking. Remember cheaper isn't always better.


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## Screenanator (Feb 14, 2007)

*Re: Embroidery Digitizing Fees*



Rodney said:


> I have noticed that in _general _large back designs with a higher threadcount are much higher in digitizing costs than front left chest designs.
> 
> For comparison, you can look at a site that offers digitizing (not my site, just showing for reference) to see how they price small designs versus larger designs.


That particular site is my absolute favorite...Cory's team is top notch....They've done some tricky outstanding work for me and it shows....I have my own software but I don't have the time and skills to do what they do.I can handle the simple stuff...but they handle all my tough or time consuming work(and time is money...pay them and move on). And their prices for what you get are really reasonable.I've had them do 8,000 stitch to 236,000 stitch designs for me...


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

Charging to digitize by the stitch count is a carryover from the old days when digitizing was called Punching and it was very time consuming. With today’s software there is no reason to charge large digitizing fees because the software does 90% of the work.


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## Emoneyblue (Nov 9, 2009)

Most HONEST folks have to fork out the money for the software and then the time and investment on training. That's why they try to make it back one piece at a time over time.


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## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

SickPuppy said:


> Charging to digitize by the stitch count is a carryover from the old days when digitizing was called Punching and it was very time consuming. With today’s software there is no reason to charge large digitizing fees because the software does 90% of the work.


SickPuppy I'm not sure which programs you are running, but embroidery is still one of those things you have to understand sewing and garment construction. I have not found a program you can give an image and hit go, and have it come out correct.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

Emoneyblue said:


> Most HONEST folks have to fork out the money for the software and then the time and investment on training. That's why they try to make it back one piece at a time over time.


This is true digitizing software is expensive but it is a tool of the trade. In business this is called a sunken expense, you should not try to recover its cost.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

adivito said:


> SickPuppy I'm not sure which programs you are running, but embroidery is still one of those things you have to understand sewing and garment construction. I have not found a program you can give an image and hit go, and have it come out correct.


Digitizing today is more about artwork preparation. Start with a good image and you will cut your digitizing workload in half.


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## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

SickPuppy said:


> Digitizing today is more about artwork preparation. Start with a good image and you will cut your digitizing workload in half.


I agree with you there, but how often do you receive a quality image the first go around?


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

That is why I charge based on the quality of the image and the estimated time it will take to complete. How many stitches the design ends up being is irrelevant.


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

well in this case i have a high quality vector image so it sounds to me like $250 is indeed exhorbitant...


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

SickPuppy said:


> That is why I charge based on the quality of the image and the estimated time it will take to complete. How many stitches the design ends up being is irrelevant.


 I agree with some of these points, but most quality digitizers will sew-out designs before they send out. Not only is the digitizer sitting in front of the screen but on some designs they may be sewing it out on target material AND watching the design in certain areas. On a 60K design, the machine that's sewing out takes money to run. True, I have small detailed designs that take me more time than a full back (more manual work and pickier details) but if I charge more for a design it's only because I spend more time overall. There's always someone out there that will do it cheaper. You do not have to go to the most expensive , but fear the ultra cheap, because they will cost you more money than you've saved. As an embroiderer, understand compexity and not just stitchcount and you'll be able to find the best deal. If your client wants cheap, give them a less "complex" option, not one of less quality.

Ian


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

I don't think that pricing is out of line for a full back and left chest sized design that are well digitized.


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## Say Anything (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't know if this helps any of you. I am brand new at the embroidery side of the business, actually embroidery and screen printing I have less than a year exp. However, I do know graphics. I recently ran across some software that may help all of you. It is called Stitch ERA Universal, you can get it from this site (Free Stitch ERA) The software is free, but you do have to pay for shipping ($15). I have digitized several designs myself and they have stitched out great. There have been a few that I had to recreate the image in photoshop, but once I cleaned up the edges; it digitized smoothly. There is an auto digitize function that I know MOST people frown upon; but like I said... for me it looks great. I have not had one customer that has complained about the stitching. Hope this helps you guys out.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Stitch Era Universal is a free, somewhat restricted version of Embroidery Office. Trust me, if you do anything in either EO or SEU with vectors, save your file very frequently. They both have a lot of capabilities but they are not the most stable software products I've ever used.... I find using vectors almost guarantee a crash of the program.


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## Emoneyblue (Nov 9, 2009)

SickPuppy said:


> This is true digitizing software is expensive but it is a tool of the trade. In business this is called a sunken expense, you should not try to recover its cost.



I can understand the sunken expense when it come to your business but when you are offering services to folks within your same business there's a need to recover time and investment. For your services...


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

I spent over 12 hours on the last design I digitized. It was fairly large, but it had some repetitive detail that I couldn't automate with good results. Some designs just take lots of time and while I don't digitize for a living, I do expect to be paid for my time.

That said, the charge quoted may be reasonable, depending on the art source and details of the design.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

So after spending 12 hours on the desing, how many stitches did it end up being? How much did you charge and then what was the cost per stitch. I'm like you. I fuss over my digitized designs and will end up sewing them out at least two times to make sure every thing is up to my standards. I generally charge less that what I should based upon an hourly rate in order to keep my designs from being considered "exhorbitantly" priced. I suspect screenprinters don't have the issues we have getting artwork ready for printing but they still charge in the neighborhood of $50/hour.


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

thanks for everyone's help so far. would it make more sense for me to get these front and back designs done as Chenille Patches? 

If so, is this a practical solution? 

Do I have to get images Digitized for Chenille Patches?

For a Chenille Patch, I wouldn't need to worry about seeing any sewing on the inside of the jacket like I would for embroidery, correct?


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## jssans (Sep 29, 2007)

I usually charge $30 if it takes under an hour to digitize something $60 if it's over an hour. $0 if it takes me under 15min. These overseas guys are digitizing so cheap & fast it makes me wonder if i'll just digitize everything for free someday or just buy editing software & ditch the digitizing all together.


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## Bodybagz (Jun 25, 2009)

Well now, for a one piece garment to get done you of course have to realize setup times and all the other stuff like digitizing and time and yes for one garment you're most likely going to pay more per piece, but for let's say a 100 pieces well that's when your garment might only cost 20, 30, or 40 bucks hypothetically. Businesses have overhead and other variables that affect their pricing policies that keeps them in business. So it not unusual that there would be a big price difference from one place to another. And like another poster said cheaper is not always better. Variables include: quality, reputation, turn around, overhead, time, artwork, setups, proofing, and you can get really creative to throw in some hidden costs to justify a quoted price. So I guess what I'm saying is shop around and don't be afraid to ask about all the other hidden fees besides just the quote. Sorry so long but even those that advertise no hidden fees are the real ones to watch out for! Good luck to ya, Jimbo.


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## AndTees (Jul 6, 2009)

myfinishingtouch said:


> So after spending 12 hours on the desing, how many stitches did it end up being? How much did you charge and then what was the cost per stitch. I'm like you. I fuss over my digitized designs and will end up sewing them out at least two times to make sure every thing is up to my standards. I generally charge less that what I should based upon an hourly rate in order to keep my designs from being considered "exhorbitantly" priced. I suspect screenprinters don't have the issues we have getting artwork ready for printing but they still charge in the neighborhood of $50/hour.


It was 30,000+ stitches... and actually it was a charity gift. But one of the nicest looking jobs I've done.


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

thanks. i got all the answers i need about digitizing for embroidery.

would it make more sense for me to get these front and back designs done as Chenille Patches? 

If so, is this a practical solution? 

Do I have to get images Digitized for Chenille Patches?

Are there typically minimum quantity orders?

For a Chenille Patch, I wouldn't need to worry about seeing any sewing on the inside of the jacket like I would for embroidery, correct?


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

anybody???


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

My understanding is that Chenille is similar to embroidery but done on a different machine. I think you would still need to have the design digitized for a chenille machine - maybe try calling any companies in your area that do varsity jackets?

You wouldn't see all the stitching since it's done as a patch. If they sew the patch onto the back or front before they assemble the jacket, then you wouldn't see the stitching at all. That is how the varsity jackets I've seen in the past were made.


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Ted is correct. It's still "embroidery" but on a speciallized machine and on a felt material. You will still have a set-up (digitizing) for Chennile. After that it's tacked or sewn around the edge to the jacket. If you get a jacket with a removable lining, you will not see those stitches.


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

i guess regardless if i get chantille patches or embroidery i need a removable lining...

i'm having such a difficult time finding letterman/varsity jackets with a removeable lining. 

any ideas on where to order from?

and thanks everyone for their continued help/suggestions.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> i'm having such a difficult time finding letterman/varsity jackets with a removeable lining.
> 
> any ideas on where to order from?


*Tip:* You may want to start new topics for your new questions  

That way, people with info about Chennile will see "chenille" in the topic title and be able to respond if they aren't reading this thread. Or people with info about "letterman jackets with removable lining" will be able to see the topic title and be able to respond if they aren't reading this thread about digitizing.

Here are some good leads on the jackets: varsity related topics at T-Shirt Forums

Good luck with your project!


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## newdude (May 21, 2008)

Thanks. I'll close this thread and start anew.


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

we would normally charge between $50 to $100 for such a jacketback..... China will be even cheaper but i would like to point out that even at cheap rates there are good digitisers out there....you just got to look for them.... good luck


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Removable linings are great - but we stitch under jacket linings for embroidery all the time. It's more work - you have to carefully rip a stitch, embroider without catching the lining, and then re-stitch - but that's how I prefer to do jackets. Same for sewing on patches - some folks sew right through jacket and lining and all; some take things apart to sew.


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## adivito (Aug 25, 2006)

s&s is running specials right now on the jackets if you are still looking for the letterman style.


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