# Please HELP!! Everything is peeling off!!



## Blessed4ever (Nov 16, 2009)

We are using a hotronix press and logos made from F&M. Everything we have pressed the logos on is peeling and cracking off. We have not been in this business very long, but are trying very hard to make quality apparel products for our customers. Everything is returning with peels and cracks. We just completed an order on poly-mesh and followed the instructions. Peeled off after one wash. We have to reorder and redo everything for the basketball team. But we dont know what the issue is! Then we pressed onto sweatshirts and SAME problem!! It is faded/cracked and peeling! We have tried adjusting pressure, temp, etc.. and nothing is working!! What are we doing wrong?? We have several more large orders due soon and we cannot seem to correct what we have already done! Is it the material that F&M is using? Or is it us? I thought this would be a great way to make extra cash in this tough economic time; but we are loosing money left and right; not to mention loosing my mind over this!! Thanx for any replies!!


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

I had the same problems with F+M, major peeling around the edges. They use a different process, IMO, than a true plastisol transfer.
I'd get some samples from different companies and try them out. Additionally, search for F+M here and see if you have the same type of transfers with the clear underbase. They were good about resolving my order due to these issues.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

F&M is the only transfer maker with which I've had 100% success but I stopped using them when they went to this new process because I don't like the clear coat business. 

So they are fading, cracking and peeling? I'm skeptical. I have samples of their myidwear which have been washed dozens of times with no cracking or fading. Give some details like the time and temp. Are you preheating the bottom platen? Have you tested any samples from other vendors? Have you pressed previous samples from F&M? Have you washed any of your previous samples? Did you test your pressed transfers for proper adhesion and curing? 

Peeling is most likely one of the following... either your press wasn't hot enough, the transfers were bad, the material was treated with something preventing adhesion or the material contains nylon.


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## Blessed4ever (Nov 16, 2009)

Yes, time and temp were correct as per instructions. Yes, we preheated. No, there was nothing strange on the material. 
Poly Mini Mesh and 100% cotton Sweatshirts.
F&M says that has never happened before so they dont know; but they asked me to send them pics, which I am doing right now. The ink just seems so thin. On some garments, it is actually peeling right off (like on the mesh shorts) and the sweatshirts, it is more faded. This is after only one wash. Very obvious. I called Stahl's where we bought the heat press. They say maybe we need to turn up the temp?
I am at a loss right now. We have orders that need to be completed, and then ones we have already done that need to be reordered and corrected. But I need to know what the problem is FIRST!! Thanx again


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Well if you've ruled out everything else, the transfers are probably bad. Are these the first transfers you've pressed?


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## Blessed4ever (Nov 16, 2009)

The only other ones we have used are Stahls numberalls; "ThermoFilm"... They stayed in tact; although the edges of the numbers are starting to peel. But the number itself is staying together. It seems so much "thicker" than the logo from F&M... It is like the logos from F&M are so thin and kinda "cheap"... But I dont know. F&M wants me to send them samples of what I have done so they can see what is happening. Even though I sent them pics yesteday. And some of my unused logos. They say noone else is having this problem with the lot they used. I just have so much to get done and dont have time for this to be happening! Maybe I will just up my temp and cross my fingers????


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## PrintMonkey (Jul 15, 2006)

Have you check that the temp is correct on the heat press?
Sounds like the press is running cold.

M


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## Artsplace-CBR (Feb 22, 2007)

Have you tried First Edition custom transfers?


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## chevette (Nov 17, 2009)

Can some one tell me....................... Do I have to match my transfer machine with the type of shirt that I buy?... Break it down.... Do some brands of t shirt work better with some machines?


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## leapoffaith (Nov 8, 2009)

Blessed4Ever -- I have to tell you...I was just at WhichWich eating my sandwich worrying about your peeling transfers! lol. I hope you are finding a solution. You have some sympathy from me....I haven't even started this business yet, but what you are experiencing is my nightmare. Hope you'll come back and let us know when you get your problem solved so I can quit worrying about it.


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## Blessed4ever (Nov 16, 2009)

Aww.. thanks so much! We ordered a heat strip from Stahls to see how the machine is running. But I dont think it is that, because we took some of the logos, and used some logos that a friend of ours has (also from F&M) and used his hotronix heat press. The logos looked fine, but then we brought them home and washed them and they fell apart again.
I am starting to wonder...
Could it be our DRYER?????

Thanks all for thinking of us!!


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

It sounds like bad transfers but if no one else is having trouble from that batch it is a mystery. If you'd like to mail me some I will press them and see if I have trouble. I recommend you immediately contact several other transfer makers and order samples.

Wait, are you saying _your _logos fell apart that a friend pressed or _his _logos fell apart after you washed them.

Maybe you could post those pictures, it might help figure out what is going on.


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## Blessed4ever (Nov 16, 2009)

We used HIS LOGOS from F&M and HIS heat press. They looked fine. We then brought them home and washed them and those TOO fell apart.
He said that his logos are not falling apart after the washes at HIS HOUSE, that is why I am wondering if it is just our dryer doing it to them?


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## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi Blessed... I just read your posts. you could try repressing the shirts by applying
a teflon sheet over the printed image and reheating it,,,at least this could save the ones you
have already printed. It seems to me that your not 
applying enough pressure...your design is probably "laying more on top" of the garmet
instead of actually being jelled into the garmet.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

order samples from other companies. i tried transfers from about a half a dozen co's before settling on howard sportwear. call and ask them. i use their superhold ink formulation that has a very aggressive adhesive mixed in. it's a little thicker but it's very opaque and sticks great. never a problem. hope you figure it out. keep us updated. -good luck.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Blessed4ever said:


> ...I am wondering if it is just our dryer doing it to them?


You've left out too many details for anyone to really answer your questions.


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## Jason's_Place (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey I am just getting into this business myself, just curious if you figured it out?


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

wormil said:


> F&M is the only transfer maker with which I've had 100% success but I stopped using them when they went to this new process because I don't like the clear coat business.


Rick

I am getting ready to submit my first order with FM. Partially because of your success with them and their pricing which you have mentioned. I have a white detailed design to print on a red t-shirt. I have order Gildan 5.4 oz cotton.

What is this clear coat you mentioned? The pressing instructions on the website have not changed any. Should I make any changes?
I am ordering the athletic SPOT formula. I recived some samples recently to test on koozies. They printed great but since they are koozies I have not washed them. This thread has me nervous


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

Colorfast said:


> What is this clear coat you mentioned? The pressing instructions on the website have not changed any. Should I make any changes?
> I am ordering the athletic SPOT formula. I recived some samples recently to test on koozies. They printed great but since they are koozies I have not washed them. This thread has me nervous


read this thread:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t96666.html


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

miktoxic said:


> read this thread:
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t96666.html


 
Thanks Tim...that thread doesn't make me feel any better. I'm going to talk with FM before ordering. I have done work with another transfer company in the past that printed great. I don't want to go with them for this job because they are more expensive. Perhaps this is a case of getting what you pay for.


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## JavaJess (Sep 16, 2009)

Have you tried any other brands of transfers? just a thought, but we've had better luck with Red Grid for light fabrics, they don't peel or crack. 

We also make sure to include washing and drying instructions with each of our orders, and what it basically boils down to is: turn the item inside out (it prevents friction on the transfer), use cold water wash only, remove immediately once wash is done, shake out item, then put in dryer and dry only until just dry, remove immediately and shake out again. Maybe try that? If you are washing with a lot of sharp items (bras with hooks, rugs, etc) it could be causing too much friction?

Good luck!


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

JavaJess said:


> Have you tried any other brands of transfers? just a thought, but we've had better luck with Red Grid for light fabrics, they don't peel or crack. !


Hi Jess. he's talking about custom plastisol transfers not inkjet transfers.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Colorfast said:


> This thread has me nervous


It's probably just my suspicious nature but when a poster won't answer specific questions and only posts vague accusations, I don't take their claims very seriously.


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## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi. I would reccomend ordering samples and trying them onto your garmets first
to see if there are any issues...Frank


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## thornnspear (Jul 21, 2009)

I had several transfers done by F&M this summer, Freedom 4 color and Spot 1 & 2 color... all have proved incredibly durable even after going through the dryer multiple times.


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## yak (Dec 2, 2009)

All I can say is I am glad I joined this site, because we just did a batch of plastisol transfer samples today and are going to launder the hell out of them before we offer to our customers!


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

thornnspear said:


> I had several transfers done by F&M this summer, Freedom 4 color and Spot 1 & 2 color... all have proved incredibly durable even after going through the dryer multiple times.


the gripe wasn't about durability (in the link to another thread i offered)...........it was about f&m's new formula that had left a clear coat atop the transfer that was visible around the design, like a ghosting pattern of sorts. if you read the thread you'll understand. i've got no knocks against f&m. in fact i was going to use them till i read these concerns. the samples i received from other companies were just as good if not better than f&m. so why use them if there is a problem?


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## thornnspear (Jul 21, 2009)

miktoxic said:


> the gripe wasn't about durability (in the link to another thread i offered)...........it was about f&m's new formula that had left a clear coat atop the transfer that was visible around the design, like a ghosting pattern of sorts. if you read the thread you'll understand. i've got no knocks against f&m. in fact i was going to use them till i read these concerns. the samples i received from other companies were just as good if not better than f&m. so why use them if there is a problem?


I also gather from reading the thread the issue is on the fashion print transfers, which I have not yet used.


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## cshanks (Jul 16, 2007)

Blessed, I use cold peel transfers from Ace, I pre-heat the pallette 3 times 30 sec. ea. 310-320 deg, pre-heat the garmet for 10 sec., place the transfer, heat and med pressure for 5-10 sec., let cool, peel off transfer, place teflon sheet on garmet and press again for 18-20 sec. If you are using cold peel transfers this should work.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Repressing with a teflon sheet is used on inkjet transfers, it isn't necessary on plastisol transfers.


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

thornnspear said:


> I also gather from reading the thread the issue is on the fashion print transfers, which I have not yet used.


I called FM before placing my order and was told there is no option to have a transfer done without the clear coat. They said the SPOT fashion print showed LESS than the SPOT athletic. It could be choked back more. I am supposed to recieve my transfers tomorrow. I ordered the fashion print. When I get the order doen I;ll get back to this thread with comments and pics if I remember to take them.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I sent F&M an email asking about the clear stuff and for the first time ever they didn't reply so I sent my order to Universal instead. Keeping my fingers crossed that I can find someone who can produce a good product at a reasonable price with at least a modicum of customer service. 

Since I haven't had any luck ordering multicolor transfers from anyone else, I ordered digital transfers this time around. Hopefully they will be reasonably durable.


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

I was the person who posted the thread about sevearal batches from F&M being bad. I am about to friggn pull my head off in dealing with this company. 

Since I posted that other thread I had had one issue after another. They have been reasonably helpful with running reprints but what they can't get it right the first time is beyond me !!

I came back here today to see if anyone was having issues with F&M and behold....this guy is having the same issue we are having. 

To the OP....you will want to adjust your heat and pressures. We currently run 370 degrees with the pressure set to the highest the press will go. We pre-heat for 6 seconds and then press for 17 seconds. This works excellent for us when the transfer are correct. 

Hope this helps...


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## maddog (Jun 15, 2009)

Wow 370 with MAX pressure at 12 seconds.
that seems High to me, I am new and do not pretend to be an expert and am here for advice as most...But with those three things are'nt you asking for Burn marks and surely one could not use that on ALL fabrics right?


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

dark garments and 100% cotton. 

Hey...I tried the suggested settings...it didn't work. We have been using those settings since early summer on several thousand shirts with not a single return. 

We printed about 120 shirts with the setting that came with the transfers and we had to replace many and the other we were able to salvage by pressing them again.


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

edit...

We did do some white shirts with no problems.


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## jamerican352005 (Nov 1, 2008)

What was your pressure??? Pressure is a KEY factor with transfers. If you plan on ordering alot of transfers in the future I HIGHLY suggest buying an air press. No I do not sell commercial heat presses  I produce plastisol heat transfers and I can tell you first hand if I have a customer with a problem they always have a manual press. With Manual Presses you need MAXIMUM pressure. I realize if you put too much pressure you aren't able to raise the press after printing  but really I believe your problem may be with the pressure you are using to apply the prints. Time and temp are key factors as well but the pressure you use will help the ink fuse into the fibers of the garment. Hope this helps!


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

agreed....

we set our manual press almost so hard that we can't close it.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

but why is this not a problem with other vendors who supply the same type of transfers?


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## jamerican352005 (Nov 1, 2008)

miktoxic not all vendors use the same ink and paper. The quality of your ink and paper goes along way with plastisol prints. I have heard alot of great things about FM as well so who knows they may have received a bad batch of ink. It does happen. Note I am in competition with FM but like to give good companies the benefit of the doubt when they are highly recommended by other customers and alot of peope on this forum. I know that isn't very "business" of me to do but our business does good so I can afford to be nice instead of nasty


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

jamerican352005 said:


> miktoxic not all vendors use the same ink and paper. The quality of your ink and paper goes along way with plastisol prints. I have heard alot of great things about FM as well so who knows they may have received a bad batch of ink. It does happen. Note I am in competition with FM but like to give good companies the benefit of the doubt when they are highly recommended by other customers and alot of peope on this forum. I know that isn't very "business" of me to do but our business does good so I can afford to be nice instead of nasty


i agree whole heartedly. fm were on the top of my list when first researching vendors for plastisol transfers on this forum. i received samples from them and a half dozen other vendors. to me they all seemed just fine with application/feel etc. they obviously changed their ink formulations as was discussed in this thread and was done so before i placed my first order for transfers. my point is people aren't going to spend their money on something that is questionable when with a click of a mouse you can buy something that's not. i ordered from another vendor on a three color (spot) design and although not following their guidelines completely, applied to the tshirts fine w/o unbearable pressure and time. the customer has begged for more shirts and other designs since delivery. if you're a competitor, which one? i'm always willing to search out and use good quality work. (as we speak i just received a sample pack from universal). thanks!


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

wormil said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed that I can find someone who can produce a good product at a reasonable price with at least a modicum of customer service.


DITTO on the customer service


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## ergoproducts (Oct 27, 2009)

I too have recently received a set of onesies back from a customer who said they peeled off after drying in their home dryer. I've been using Freedom transfers for about 3 yrs and have never had this problem. 

This return was on a 100% cotton onesie. It was pressed at 340 deg F for 7-9 secs at high pressure. I judge the pressure by feeling the perimeter of the design to see if it has an edge on it. If I feel an edge I increase the pressure and repress. The ink on this return is not only coming off on the edge but also in the middle of the design. You can see the shadow of the glue left behind on the shirt. It's like the ink is delaminating from the shirt. I just notified F&M today to see what the problem could be. I'm going to wash and dry more from the same batch of transfers and see if I can get it to repeat. If anyone knows what is wrong please let me know. I'm crossing my fingers that it was a freak occurance but will know more after my own testing at home.


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## ergoproducts (Oct 27, 2009)

I also had a problem with the ghost outline referred to in a different post that shows up on dark shirts. F&M have explained that it is part of their process to cut back the opaque white background on Freedom transfers by 4 pixels around all edges. The color is still printed but without the opaque background it looks like a dark line around the design. You can predict what it will look like by adding a semi-transparent stroke on a design with a dark background in Photoshop. Unfortunately I had done a distressed looking design and every little hole had a 4 pixel cutback of the opaque background. Needless to say the design looked awful because it was small (a baby design) and on a brown onesie. If I had done a design for a light colored shirt it wouldn't have been noticeable. 

F&M corrected the problem by reprinting the design on SPOT transfers. It solved the problem and I've learned I need to do SPOT transfers for dark shirts. 

I also want to point out that I did the same design in black and there was no problem because the black inck is already opaque and doesn't need an opaque background. I hope this helps people plan their designs. It helped me a lot once I understood. Some of my designs are printed on light and dark shirts and I purposely put a black outline on the design. I do this so it shows up better on a light colored shirt and it is shown as part of the design on a dark colored shirt so customers don't know a difference. They can't complain if it's part of the design.


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## RAVENTOS TRANSF. (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm also a heat transfer producer and I'm completly agree that is very important the pressure , time and temperature is also important but you have large rage to try from 140ºC to 180ºC and from 5" to 20 "but always with the right pressure!!!

B.R. from Barcelona Raventos


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

RAVENTOS TRANSF. said:


> I'm also a heat transfer producer and I'm completly agree that is very important the pressure , time and temperature is also important but you have large rage to try from 140ºC to 180ºC and from 5" to 20 "but always with the right pressure!!!
> 
> B.R. from Barcelona Raventos


welcome to the forum toni! are you in barcelona, spain? how's the tshirt business there? i would guess the tourists come year round. -adios!


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## RAVENTOS TRANSF. (Mar 4, 2010)

The business is not bad, the turism is all year long so, no problem.
I'm quite lost I don't know if you can help me:
1-I'm looking for a supplier who sell me a right glue or hotmelt to produce heat transfers for nylon. We produce transfers for all fabrics 100% garanteed but on nylon we can't assure it, for this reason we don't have this quality in our program .Do you know the forum that can I find the way?

2-I would like to know whow I can become a "preferred Vendor" what I need to do?

Sorry for my long post ....is that happen talking with forum's beginers
like me. I hope we can share with you more info in this platform!!!


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

RAVENTOS TRANSF. said:


> The business is not bad, the turism is all year long so, no problem.
> I'm quite lost I don't know if you can help me:
> 1-I'm looking for a supplier who sell me a right glue or hotmelt to produce heat transfers for nylon. We produce transfers for all fabrics 100% garanteed but on nylon we can't assure it, for this reason we don't have this quality in our program .Do you know the forum that can I find the way?
> 
> ...



to answer question # 2 i think you need to go here:

T-Shirt Forums - Contact T-ShirtForums.com

and click on the button 'advertising and sponsorship' then ask your questions. i'm pretty positive the main moderator's name of this forum is Rodney.

you should post question #1 as it's own thread. there are people that do their transfers and probably know the glue formulation you are looking for.


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

As an update to issues I was having with F&M...

We have since worked with them over the past few months and every batch has been perfect. Their level of service has been fantastic and we are looking to buy a pneumatic press from them to help us in the future. 

The bad part is that business is going so well that we can no longer do our own printing in house and currently looking for outsource suppliers. 

www.DUBKORPS.com
AWOL | Air & Water on Land | Capturing the essence of auto enthusiasts worldwide


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

DUBKORPS said:


> As an update to issues I was having with F&M...
> 
> We have since worked with them over the past few months and every batch has been perfect. Their level of service has been fantastic and we are looking to buy a pneumatic press from them to help us in the future.
> 
> ...


excellent. what formula prints do you get from them? i was looking at getting some # kits for a couple of softball teams but was worried about that ghosting problem.


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## DUBKORPS (Sep 17, 2009)

We are using the SPOT pricing chart but we have worked on a special formula with that so we are able to get a very soft hand feel. 

They also cut their minimums a lot so we were able to get their special neck tag formula which gives us extreme detail on very small graphics and text. 

Very happy with how things have turned out.


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