# Threadless to use their own blanks



## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

New Threadless shirts will soon be printed on their own private label blanks.

Personally I find this noteworthy for two reasons: the first is the obvious one, secondly they announced it with the printing of this shirt... which was never previously available online.

I wonder how many of these things they printed. I'm guessing a heck of a lot, but I'm also guessing it's going to be absolutely *flying* off the shelves.

The official announcement is here.


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## Dave G (Aug 7, 2006)

Cool. It will be interesting to see how people like the new shirts, fit wise.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

The buzz is mostly in their favour (that is, so far some people are nervous, but more seem excited), so it will indeed be interesting to see what people think after they actually get their hands on the shirt.

Likewise I'm really curious to see what a company like Threadless looks for in a blank when they've left it 'till this late in the game to make their own (so they've had plenty of time to think about it, learn what they want, etc.).

From my point of view it's likely I'll prefer the Fruit of the Loom shirts they were using, but I think overall this will be a move for the better, please more customers more of the time, etc.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

At least there won't be any more tag stumps.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Unless they sew them in for old time's sake


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## kentphoto (Jan 16, 2006)

Surprised they didn't do it sooner.

I hate Threadless. 'cause they're so damn smart.


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## Dave G (Aug 7, 2006)

Yeah, I like the shirts they currently use. For me they fit nice.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I just bought mine...thanks for posting this 

I think this is a "makes sense" move when a t-shirt company (like threadless, cafepress, etc) start moving the volume of t-shirts they do

The reasons they gave almost mirrored exactly the reasons that CafePress gave when they made a similar announcement.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I wonder how long before we see posts asking "where threadless gets their blanks from". 

Looks like they already have their own RN number to "protect" the source


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I think this is a "makes sense" move when a t-shirt company (like threadless, cafepress, etc) start moving the volume of t-shirts they do


Definitely. Personally I think they should have done it a long time ago, but they missed a window of opportunity, i.e. once you let it go "too far" so to speak it gets really hard to move brands.



Rodney said:


> I wonder how long before we see posts asking "where threadless gets their blanks from".


Heh, not long I'm guessing. 



Rodney said:


> Looks like they already have their own RN number to "protect" the source


They've been using that for quite a while now (maybe not the 2+ years ago they registered it, but definitely quite a while).


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> Personally I think they should have done it a long time ago, but they missed a window of opportunity, i.e. once you let it go "too far" so to speak it gets really hard to move brands.


I agree. It seems like this was something they should have done before, both from a marketing standpoint and also cost-wise.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like for the amount of volume they're doing, manufacturing their own blanks is going to be cheaper than buying from FoTL or AA.

Also, by changing things this far along, it seems like they are kind of pulling out the rug from under their customers, who are undoubtably very accustomed to the shirts they have been using so far.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Jasonda said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like for the amount of volume they're doing, manufacturing their own blanks is going to be cheaper than buying from FoTL or AA.


I would think the same thing, although of course they would have been getting very good volume pricing. They said the women's shirts will stay the same price, and men's shirts may or may not go up a dollar or two (retail obviously - sadly we'll never know their wholesale costs ).



Jasonda said:


> Also, by changing things this far along, it seems like they are kind of pulling out the rug from under their customers, who are undoubtably very accustomed to the shirts they have been using so far.


A lot of customers are just relieved they finally won't be supporting Dov Charney (or whatever other issues they may have had with AA), but there is a sizeable portion who feel like the rug has indeed been pulled out from under them. And that's in the blogs... I think the customers who aren't active (and therefore might not understand the drawbacks of using AA and FotL, the reasons behind the decision, etc.) are more likely to feel that way. On the other hand they're also less likely to even notice.

Still, even if they'd switched to their own blanks a year or two ago the reactions would presumably be more or less the same; it was pretty much an unavoidable issue they'd have to address at some point. I've seen more and more backlash against AA over the last year though, so maybe waiting was good in that people were literally requesting it by the time they did it.


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## kentphoto (Jan 16, 2006)

Hey, does anyone know if I can buy Threadless blanks for my t-shirt business?


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I would think the same thing, although of course they would have been getting very good volume pricing. They said the women's shirts will stay the same price, and men's shirts may or may not go up a dollar or two (retail obviously - sadly we'll never know their wholesale costs ).


As far as the men's shirt pricing goes, for all we know their actual price per shirt will go down and they are just using this as an excuse to fatten up the bottom line. 



Solmu said:


> A lot of customers are just relieved they finally won't be supporting Dov Charney (or whatever other issues they may have had with AA)


I can definitely understand their concerns. For all the good press that AA gets, it seems like they get a larger helping of bad press thanks to the antics of Mr. Charney. I have no idea why AA hasn't unloaded him yet.



Solmu said:


> I think the customers who aren't active (and therefore might not understand the drawbacks of using AA and FotL, the reasons behind the decision, etc.) are more likely to feel that way. On the other hand they're also less likely to even notice.


I definitely think the more active customers are the ones they should be worrying about.. the people who have bought from them multiple times, and participated in the site in various ways. You can't make everyone happy all the time, but if their core customers are happy with the change, it should be fairly smooth sailing.

But for all the speculation, we won't really know the real results until those folks actually get their hands on the shirts and start talking about them.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Jasonda said:


> As far as the men's shirt pricing goes, for all we know their actual price per shirt will go down and they are just using this as an excuse to fatten up the bottom line.


Possible, but I doubt it. The frequency of their sales suggests they work on a quantity model of selling more than anything  I think they probably will be moving to more expensive cotton, so I guess it's a matter of whether or not making them themself saves as much as the more expensive materials cost (they're also moving from FotL made offshore, to manufacture in LA - which isn't going to be as cheap).



Jasonda said:


> I can definitely understand their concerns. For all the good press that AA gets, it seems like they get a larger helping of bad press thanks to the antics of Mr. Charney.


I quickly turn into a broken record when I get onto that topic... suffice to say, not a fan (of Dov, or the product, or the marketing, or...).



Jasonda said:


> I have no idea why AA hasn't unloaded him yet.


Because he owns 50% of the company, and the guy who owns the other 50% is a silent partner. If it was a publicly traded company he would have been fired long ago, you can bet on it.



Jasonda said:


> I definitely think the more active customers are the ones [Threadless] should be worrying about..


I don't know... those customers probably make up less than 5% of their sales. There are the whole "market leaders" arguments, etc. though so it's all pretty complex.



Jasonda said:


> But for all the speculation, we won't really know the real results until those folks actually get their hands on the shirts and start talking about them.


Absolutely. It's hard to resist speculating in the meanwhile, but ultimately fairly pointless. For some reason I'm kind of excited by the change, even though I don't really have any reason to care. I guess I'm happy that they're making a step to being a more professional company - this will eliminate several of the little things that have just hung around from the time they were doing this on a much smaller scale (like label stubs).


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> Because he owns 50% of the company, and the guy who owns the other 50% is a silent partner. If it was a publicly traded company he would have been fired long ago, you can bet on it.


Oh, it all makes sense now. Sucks to be them (the other 50%).



Solmu said:


> I don't know... those customers probably make up less than 5% of their sales. There are the whole "market leaders" arguments, etc. though so it's all pretty complex.


That's interesting. Where did you learn that from? It would seem like the majority of their sales would be coming from repeat customers, given the community-based focus of their marketing.

Then again, it does make sense if you subscribe to the theory that the "loudest" people (the ones who are most opinionated about a product, for OR against) are almost never the ones who spend the largest amount of money on it. I have seen this many, many times in face-to-face sales. 



Solmu said:


> For some reason I'm kind of excited by the change, even though I don't really have any reason to care. I guess I'm happy that they're making a step to being a more professional company - this will eliminate several of the little things that have just hung around from the time they were doing this on a much smaller scale (like label stubs).


I'm also glad they are making the change. It always bothers me when "big" companies don't take care of the little details - it just seems sloppy and careless. So I'll take this change as a small sign of growing maturity on their part.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm hoping they go Alternative Apparel with a twist.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Jasonda said:


> Solmu said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know... those customers probably make up less than 5% of their sales.
> ...


Just speculation on my part; hence _probably_ 



Jasonda said:


> It would seem like the majority of their sales would be coming from repeat customers, given the community-based focus of their marketing.


I'm positive a goodly portion of their sales would come from repeat customers. But I think those who actually _participate_ in their site probably make up a small percentage. They have hundreds of thousands of user accounts (obviously not all active/actual customers), but the average submission gets around 2k votes. Obviously not the same 2k over and over again, but still...

And if you count _participate_ as write in blogs, voice an opinion, give feedback, etc. it's not going to be a very large percentage of their customer base.



Jasonda said:


> Then again, it does make sense if you subscribe to the theory that the "loudest" people (the ones who are most opinionated about a product, for OR against) are almost never the ones who spend the largest amount of money on it. I have seen this many, many times in face-to-face sales.


Heh. I think it's possible the loudest members of Threadless do spend some of the most money per person (who knows?), there's just not enough of them to make up a huge buying block (maybe... again, all we can do is speculate since we don't know their sales information).

Maybe all this speculation on my part is just because Threadless is my X-Files.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

monkeylantern said:


> I'm hoping they go Alternative Apparel with a twist.


Me too. I think they'll be thicker, but similar.


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Solmu said:


> Me too. I think they'll be thicker, but similar.


Yes, a slightly heavier AltApp would be ideal.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I'm positive a goodly portion of their sales would come from repeat customers. But I think those who actually _participate_ in their site probably make up a small percentage. They have hundreds of thousands of user accounts (obviously not all active/actual customers), but the average submission gets around 2k votes. Obviously not the same 2k over and over again, but still...
> 
> And if you count _participate_ as write in blogs, voice an opinion, give feedback, etc. it's not going to be a very large percentage of their customer base.


This is interesting. Since "participating" customers are really a minority, even though they are the ones we most often hear the opinions of, it's not very likely that their opinions are going to accurately portray the thoughts of the majority.

It's obvious that the most important opinions (as far as Threadless should be concerned) would be the ones of repeat customers. And we have no way of knowing how many repeat customers are also the "participating" type, although Threadless surely does. 

Heck, there are 6,000 t-shirt forums members, and it seems like a relatively small percentage of those people are the ones who make the majority of the daily posts. But that doesn't mean that the rest of the 6,000 aren't reading every day. So even though the forums aren't selling anything, in essence those people are repeat customers, just not participating ones.



Solmu said:


> Maybe all this speculation on my part is just because Threadless is my X-Files.


I do *so* miss that show.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I got my I Heart Threadless shirt today that's printed on their new custom blank t-shirts.

I haven't worn the shirt yet, but it appears to be less than 6 oz, and pretty soft. Not softer than AlternativeApparel, but possibly softer than AmericanApparel.

The sizing seems to be slimmer than a gildan 2000 (see photo below. Threadless on top, Gildan 2000 below), but the same length.

What's interesting is that this design seems to be printed with water based inks, or maybe one pass coverage over a discharge underbase. There's very little hand to the design compared to other threadless prints.


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

Thanks for the pic Rodney.  It looks pretty good. The sleeves seem to be quite a bit smaller than the Gildan 2000.

How's the fit?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I haven't worn the shirt yet, but it appears to be less than 6 oz, and pretty soft. Not softer than AlternativeApparel, but possibly softer than AmericanApparel.


I _think_ (not 100% sure) it was going to be somewhere around a 5.4ish (i.e. they were planning on making it a similar weight to the FotL shirts they'd been using).

They also said they were going to make the women's shirts longer though, and if the blogs are to be believed they actually made them _shorter_.

The photo you included really highlights the different sleeve shape as well. I hadn't seen anyone mention that, but it looks like it should eliminate a lot of the boxyness of the sleeves (not that FotL are as bad as Gildan in that regard).

Turns out though (from comments Threadless staff have made on their blogs) that they're basically getting their customers to pay to beta test their product: this is a trial run, and based on feedback they'll change the shirts to suit the customerbase.

Personally I think this is a terrible idea. People are freaked out about the sizes changing enough as it is; this shirt should have been a way for people to see the new sizing and deal with it. You don't want to change it on people *again* or they'll start feeling like their purchases are never going to be stable. Between hiring professional fit models, using their own staff, sending out shirts to some trusted Threadless top customers/designers, etc. they should have had no problem getting a representative sample of opinions before the shirt ever came to market. It's not like they don't have access to the resources.



Rodney said:


> What's interesting is that this design seems to be printed with water based inks, or maybe one pass coverage over a discharge underbase. There's very little hand to the design compared to other threadless prints.


I wouldn't be surprised if it is waterbased - they've done a lot more experimenting with different print methods since starting Select, and that was one of the given reasons for wanting their own blanks (more consistency for some printing methods that demand it).


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> How's the fit?


I'll tell you tomorrow  Today I'm wearing the navy blue gildan shirt (with some slick discharge printing and design by fluid) that was lying under the threadless shirt.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Well, I'm wearing the threadless shirt today and the fit seems good.

It's obviously a soft ringspun t-shirt, but it's not "wow" soft like AlternativeApparel or BambooClothes. Still, it's a good quality shirt.

It actually seems to fit and feel much like the Alstyle 1701 t-shirts.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I also just noticed that the shirts have a side-seam, which might cause problems for artsy, wrap-around type designs.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> Well, I'm wearing the threadless shirt today and the fit seems good.


Have you washed it yet? Apparently the fit changes (i.e. the shirt shrinks), but not as much as American Apparel.



Rodney said:


> I also just noticed that the shirts have a side-seam, which might cause problems for artsy, wrap-around type designs.


This is one of the things that even at this late stage they apparently haven't made a final decision on. On the one hand they want side seams to provide a better shape, on the other hand some customers don't like them and they don't want them interfering with wrap-around designs. aa make them both ways (apparently at random), so they might be able to do both.

We'll see what happens... it seems like anything that happens now could still change though, so while it's an indication the direction they're headed there's only so much it can mean.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Have you washed it yet?


Not yet, I'm still wearing it  

:imagining myself spinning around in the washing machine on the gentle cycle:


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> :imagining myself spinning around in the washing machine on the gentle cycle:


That is an amusing image. Theme for the next t-shirt forums t-shirt?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> That is an amusing image. Theme for the next t-shirt forums t-shirt?


How'd you guess 

Looking at the shirt in the mirror last night, I do have to say that I like the way it "hangs" and fits pre-wash. I'm a little worried now how it will look after washing, because pre-wash it looks perfect. The more I wore it, the more I liked it.

On a side note, I just got a sample t-shirt from a canada based t-shirt company (not Jerico). It was an unsolicited sample, so they sent me a medium. I was holding it up to my chest and I swear their medium was almost the same size as the 2XL I was wearing. 

So I put it on. It was definitely a generously sized medium (and a heavy weight shirt as well). I'll have to buy a "regular" sized sample and report back though


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## funkyduds (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm really hesitant to buy one of the new ones, you know the first time jitters you get when you're not quite sure about a new brand... 

[email protected]


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

funkyduds said:


> I'm really hesitant to buy one of the new ones, you know the first time jitters you get when you're not quite sure about a new brand...


These are prototypes and subject to change anyway, so I'm not sure there's much point.

(it's a bait and switch as far as I'm concerned, I think they handled this whole switch over very unprofessionally)


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