# Problems heat pressing vinyl on dark beefy t shirt



## ann marie (Mar 3, 2007)

Hope some of the experts out there can help. We pressed a white vinyl spectra cut design on a dark blue Hanes beefy t. Heated the press(Phoenix 16x20 auto press) to recommended 302 for the spectra cut 2. Heated shirt for 5 sec to get the moisture out then pressed vinyl for recommended 15 seconds. Most of the vinyl was stuck to the original backing after waiting for it to cool. Tried adjusting the pressure got a little better of a result. 

My questions - because of the dark shirt would you recommend preheating to get out the moisture longer than 5 seconds and also because it is a beefy t it is more thicker than another shirt would be. How long would you preheat?

Also because of the thicker shirt would the 302 recommend for spectra 2 not be hot enough? Should we increase the temp a little more or heat for longer than the 15 seconds recommended?

How about pressure? because the shirt is thicker what pressure would you recommend? We are about a medium pressure now.

Would appreciate any suggestions as this will be out first sale and we want everything so come out exactly right.

Thanks,

Ann Marie


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Those all may work ann marie, but I am having the exact same problem with a Gildan 2000 tee. I am trying to press white Spectra Cut II on either red or black tees and am getting the same results.

I think it is something with their product as I have seen a few threads with the exact same problem. Every other color I have tried has work flawlessly except for this white.


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

I will generally pre-press as many as 6 times to remove moisture before pressing vinyl.

It's gotten to where I can feel the moisture when I platen pops up. So, I continue to pre-press each shirt until I can no longer feel the moisture when the platen pops up.

I have not had an issue with Spectra Cut or Spectra Cut II, since I started doing this. Prior to doing multiple pre-presses, I had the same issue you describe

The longer I have the shirt in the air conditioned storage, the less pre-pressing I have needed to do. I suppose fresh shirts from the warehouse are just in boxes at a moist warehouse


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## ann marie (Mar 3, 2007)

Flowerbox I was wondering about the white also because like you we have used just blue, black and red and have had no problems. I guess all spectra cut is not the same.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

To me it looks like they use a different Mylar backing for the white. It may just be but looking at the white and then say black after being pressed the Mylar looks different to me. I emailed them yesterday evening about this problem and hopefully I will hear something back today as I have a failry good sized order I need to get completed and I really hate to have to purchase Thermoflex to complete the order but I gotta do something in the next day or two.


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## ann marie (Mar 3, 2007)

theflowerbox, i just gave imprintables a call. the sales rep I spoke with said they do have the question in to the manufacturer regarding the white vinyl. but in the meantime here is what he told me to do. make sure the bottom platen is heated also(very warm to the touch) light pressure(you can close the press with one finger). all this in addition to 302 temp. prepressing shirt and then 15 second press of vinyl. gonna try this later. hopefully this will do the trick. i'll let you know, good luck.

Ann Marie


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## Robin (Aug 28, 2006)

I used the beefy T's at christmas, with the spectra cut II ....I prepressed until there wasnt any more steam. I didnt have any issues with it not sticking to the shirts. I used white spectra cut on red, navy and black beefy t's.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

I use Spectra Cut II and SC plus all the time. Once you get your technique down, it works very well. 

Moisture: 5 second is usually not enough time for pre-press. I've had some shirts that take 3 - 20 second pre presses to get all the moisture out (yes, 60 seconds total). The key is to know when it is dry. I have 2 metods. One, I use the 'perfect transfer tool' which is a sheet of plastic that lays just above the shirt. When I open the press, (pre-press #1) I lay the tool on the shirt. If it fogs up, I know I need to press again. Two, without the tool, you could use a drinking glass layed on it's side, pick it up after 5 seconds and look for two lines of fog on the glass. When it is clear you are ready to press.

Cutting: Use as little down pressure as possible when cutting spectra cut II. If you score the mylar with the blade, you give the glue a foothold that makes peeling harder.

Pressure: Lighter is better. Just enough pressure to contact the mylar but no more. I use a teflon pad at times when you have to get near a collar, seam or pocket. The platen hits the thick seams and doesn't contact the mylar uniformly.

Temp: 302F is good. The question is does your press run a little cold or hot when set at 302F? An IR thermometer can answer this question.

Time: I use a full 20 seconds. I've measured the temp of the shirts right after lifting the platen. At 20 seconds, the shirt does not reach 302F. (That's ok, it is hot enough to melt the glue) At 10 seconds, the shirt is not warm enough to get the glue working. (A wet shirt temp is even lower after the same press time as a dry shirt. Moisture works against you here.)

After pressing, I rub the back of the mylar with an old T-shirt. Medium hand pressure. This lets the glue cool down and grab the shirt. 

After the shirt reaches room temp, I place the shirt on the back of an office chair. (Where my back would lean against the chair back when sitting.) I stand behind the chair and lift the mylar to look at the edge of the vinyl. If edges are stuck to the T-shirt, it is ready to peel. If the vinyl comes off an 1/8 inch or so around the edges, I would go back and press it again, putting a little more hand pressure on the rub down.

My peeling technique is to pull the shirt off the mylar. Once you get an edge of the letter to break loose, it comes off all the way. I nudge it with a finger or finger nail to get it started. I move the shirt up and over the back of the chair as I get it released from the mylar. 

I always follow the peel with one more press, cover the vinyl with teflon or a sheet of paper. Light to medium pressure. If you press to hard, glue will ooze out from under the letters and leave an outline you can feel on the paper.

Colors: Yes, white is a little harder to use than colors, but you can get good result when you get your technique in place.

Your results may vary a little. I hope this gets you off to a good start. 
Keep posting your quesions. We are glad to help AND learn from your experiences.

For more details, read this post.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t14877.html#post94798


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## ann marie (Mar 3, 2007)

John S, thanks so much for all your suggestions. I know someone out there would be able to help me. This is all so new for me that it's hard to know what to do sometimes. Like with the pressure for example, we thought it was pretty light then when things weren't going well we ramped it up to medium then up from there. I would never have thought lightest pressure possible. I can't wait to try all the rest of your tricks of the trade. I'll let you know how things work out. I gotta say that I never thought I would enjoy making t-shirts as much as I have been. Even with all the problems due to the learning curve with graphics(COREL 3x) and just knowing how to press a shirt the right way. Once again many, many thanks.

Ann Marie


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

I completely agree with everything John stated, but I just want to re-iterate the importance of light pressure. Make sure your pressure is very very light, otherwise the glue ozzes out and sticks to the mylar backing. Then after you peel the mylar, repress and medium/high pressure with a teflon sheet and you should be good to go.

Best Regards,
Lloyd


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

I also have been having problems with the white Spectra Cut II. 

I use mostly red, black and white vinyls. The red and black vinyls press flawlessly every time. The white is always more difficult to press. I've given up on trying to get small details because it is almost impossible to get tiny details to stick with the white vinyl. The same design in red or black will give me no problem at all. Also, the white vinyl seems to be thicker than either the red or black. I was beginning to wonder if maybe the white vinyl I have was actually a different product.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

I am getting another roll of white coming tomorrow and am going to try it, if that don't work then I am going to have to run to my local supplier to pick up some thermoflex plus. I spent around an hour today trying to get the mylar off one press I did. I called Imprintables and they are sending out another roll tomorrow to replace mine, but I "know" I will be running to get thermoflex plus to finish this run of tees I gotta have done by Monday morning. I had a piece of thermoflex plus laying at the shop and put it on the same shirt that I spent an hour on today and it took all of about 5 seconds to pull off.

The red and black I used works like a charm and the white works "decent" applied over another color, but applied directly to a fabric, the mylar just will not come off for me, 50/50 does seem a "little" better then 100% cotton but nothing remotely close to Thermoflex plus.

They are well aware of the problem and are trying to resolve the issue.


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

theflowerboxx, thanks for the update. I did another pressing today using red and white spectra cut II and I lost some of the smaller detail on the white because it wouldn't release from the mylar backing. The larger detail I had to use my fingernails to get the edges to release. After it starts, the rest of that segment will come off okay. But for the tiny detail, there was no saving it.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

theflowerboxx said:


> ...I spent around an hour today trying to get the mylar off one press I did.


When you get ready to start cold peeling, are the edges of the vinyl attached to the shirt, or are the edges of the vinyl a little loose (not stuck to the T)?
If not, re-press the T and rub down with a cloth.

If the edges are stuck, you want to get an edge broke loose from the mylar. 
I have used the weeder for little areas. Be careful you don't jab a hole in the vinyl.

I also use my finger to push the shirt and vinyl back on itself. 

Once you get an edge loose, the rest of the letter will usually release. If it sticks again, come at it from another side and work the letter the other direction. 

If edges of the vinyl seperate from the T while peeling, that's ok, they will look great after the final pressing.

Your design can also work against you. Avoid very thin lines and little tiny dots or sharp points. There is not a lot of glue under those areas an they may fail after repeated washing. 

If you want me to have a look at your design, send it over. I'll cut it on my white SpectraCut II and let you know how it went.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

I am doing 1 1/4" letters, and it is a little bit of everything. Edges not sticking on some parts and edges are sticking to the fabric on other parts. I repressed this particular shirt 6 times today at various temps and pressure. 

It does this at different spots of the fabric with each different shirt I do. 

I've tried your suggestions you made earlier in this thread and nothing seemed to work. I am hoping the roll I get tomorrow is better then this roll I currently have.

I will give it a try with the other roll tomorrow and will post my results. Thanks for all your help and suggestions.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

theflowerboxx said:


> I am doing 1 1/4" letters, and it is a little bit of everything. Edges not sticking on some parts and edges are sticking to the fabric on other parts. I repressed this particular shirt 6 times today at various temps and pressure.
> 
> It does this at different spots of the fabric with each different shirt I do.


After you get your vinyl in place, carefully slide the shirt on the press so the collar is just off the platen base. If you leave it on the base, the thicknes of the collar will keep the platen from making good contact with the mylar. 
I would keep the pressure very light*, increase dwell time to 25 or 30 seconds, and then rub the mylar with an old T-shirt with firm pressure. Adding 5 or 10 F to the temp if is this doesn't show improvement.

If areas are not sticking, the glue is not getting up to temp. or the shirt still has a little moisture in it. 

*one way to set the pressure is to put a shirt on the press, back off the pressure, close the lid. Turn the pressure knob down until it comes to a stop. Lift the lid and give it a quarter turn more. Do this with the shirt collar off the back of the base.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

As others have said, I don't think it has anything to do with the color or style of shirt you are using. I had pretty much all the same problems you've had with SCII. I've tried all the suggested modifications and it was still very difficult to use, and practically impossible for a design with any small detail. I finally gave up and switched. ThermoFlex Plus comes out beautiful every time, even with very small details, and you can hot peel which I like. It's considerably more expensive, but worth if for me. Obviously some can get SCII to work for them with all the tweaks and tricks, and if you can, great! But I could not.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

No luck with the roll I got today. It was the same problems, so I had to go to my local supplier and pick up some Thermoflex Plus, so much for the profits on this job, oh well hopefully they get it straightened around becuase I do like the product, just not the white.


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## ann marie (Mar 3, 2007)

We ended up going to the local distributor to pick up Thermoflex plus. We took all of John S's suggestions and our shirts came out great. One shirt we did was still sticking in some spots. I don't think we let it cool long enough.

One more question. If after pulling the backing completely off and I notice an edge not sticking, will pressing the shirt keep the vinyl down even after washing. It seems to be stuck to the shirt now but I worry about the after washing thing.


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

ann marie said:


> One more question. If after pulling the backing completely off and I notice an edge not sticking, will pressing the shirt keep the vinyl down even after washing. It seems to be stuck to the shirt now but I worry about the after washing thing.


The second press will fix the loose edges. 

The only times I've had vinyl fail after repeated washings was when I used very thin lines that came to a point. The design looked like pinstriping on a car. The stroke was less than a point wide. The tip came loose. I did re-press it and that made it hold for a few more washings, but the fuzz on a T-shirt will come off and take the vinyl with it. 
I put a slight round on the sharp tips of my designs when I can and that seems to make them bullet proof. 

I've also noticed that you can squeeze a lot of glue out from under the vinyl on the second pressing if you crank up the pressure to high. I only add a half turn of pressure on number 2. I would call it light medium pressure.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

ann marie said:


> We ended up going to the local distributor to pick up Thermoflex plus. We took all of John S's suggestions and our shirts came out great.


So did you use ThermoFlex or Spectra Cut II? John's instructions were for SpectraCut II.


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## ann marie (Mar 3, 2007)

I purchased the thermoflex plus because I did not have much left on the roll of spectracut that I had and with the problemx I was experiencing I did not want to order more of the white of sprectracut and have the same problems. I followed the pressure and temp from the thermoflex but used all of John's other suggestions for after the shirts are pressed.

Thanks again. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.

Ann Marie


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## cottonmine (Nov 17, 2007)

Moisture is not the culprit. Time is. I am using vinyl from different companies. And depending on the thickness of vinyl, have to adjust my pressing time with every brand. Try giving it less time and peal when it is a little warm (not too cold). I hope you will get better results in printing your tshirts.


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