# Plastisol Transfers Registration



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I just received an order of plastisol transfers from a major supplier (a preferred vendor of this web site). Take a look at what I received. I'm shocked at how poor the registration is. If I screen printed these I couldn't sell them to my customer. The vendor suggested I add a clear under print to avoid the registration problem, but I don't see how that would solve the problem. The entire white underlay is off...

I've attached before and after images of the transfers. Registration is much further off on the left of the gang sheet than on the right. 

The purpose of this post is NOT to bash the vendor or seek recommendations or how I should deal with them. If it was I'd name them. 

*My sole purpose is to ask: "Am I asking too much of plastisol transfers?" *


----------



## DNeeld (Sep 8, 2010)

brice said:


> *My sole purpose is to ask: "Am I asking too much of plastisol transfers?" *


By asking them to be in registration? Nope. A plastisol transfer should be no different from a direct screen print in terms of registration.

This was nothing more than sloppy set up and poor quality control by the supplier.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

That's what I thought. They won't guarantee registration on a reprint either. 

Looks like I need to switch vendors.

Thanks for your input.

Brice


----------



## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Ya know, for what these places charge for those transfers they should be as good if not better quality than I could do myself. Registration should be guaranteed. After all, isn't that what we pay for?


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

No I'm being told there needs to be a clear layer under all and it will print correctly. 

Is there really such a thing?

Brice


----------



## DNeeld (Sep 8, 2010)

Personally, I have no idea or concept of how a clear layer will move an already printed white plate into registration.

I mean it is out of registration on the transfer paper (quite badly too, I might add) and I know of no process that will miraculously move the print into registration.

I honestly don't even understand the logic of thinking a clear layer will somehow move the white so that it is in registration . . .


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

Exactly. It just doesn't make sense.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

What did the original artwork look like? It's hard to say they messed up without knowing what artwork "went in" 




> how I should deal with them.


If the artwork was good and what you received doesn't match the artwork, I'd ask them to fix it and make it right.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

The original artwork is on my home computer. I'll post it later, but if you take all of the white around the hearts, smiley faces, and any wide surrounding the peace sign (except for the white gymnast and text) out of the image you'll have the original artwork. 

The white around the hearts, smileys, and peace sign was THEIR idea. I had none in the original artwork except for text and the girl. They are now saying the "clear" layer is for replacing white under the hearts, smileys, and peace sign and getting back to my original design. 

If they don't need it for the white text, why would you need it for the red, blue, orange, and yellow? It just doesn't make sense. 

I'm already looking for other vendors for future work. We'll see if their fix solves the problem and if it doesn't I'll deal with it through my credit card company if they won't do the right thing.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> If they don't need it for the white text, why would you need it for the red, blue, orange, and yellow? It just doesn't make sense.


If I'm understanding correctly, you don't need a white underbase for just a white only print. The white ink by itself will act as an underbase.

You *do* need a white underbase under a red, blue, orange, etc print to make sure the print colors come out as expected.

However, the underbase should be just that..."under". You shouldn't ever see the underbase outside of the actual design. It shouldn't be an "outline"


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

Agreed and now they want to replace the white with "clear." I'm beginning to believe the "clear" is a white under base applied correctly. Here's the original artwork and their amended design.


----------



## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

That's a big difference from what they sent to you. In fact, it isn't even close. They screwed up the registration.


----------



## DNeeld (Sep 8, 2010)

You know, after looking at the original art, I'm convinced that the representative you are speaking to doesn't understand what the problem is. The only thing adding a clear would do is remove the white outline (they wanted to place the white outline around everything because it cuts down a screen and, ironically, makes registering the job easier). It wouldn't correct the registration error. I'm wondering if the representative doesn't understand that white outline isn't a problem OTHER than the fact it is out of alignment. It sounds like they are just trying to give you options to remove the white completely.

As far as I know, if if they used a clear underbase, unless they did a mass print of it, the alignment issue would still have to be corrected. It almost looks like their artist did a drop shadow type effect with the underbase rather than centering it.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

What worries me is they say the product manager is feed them this line. It's just ridiculous.


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Transfers actually register easier than garments and should hold registration easier. The transfers you got don't even look like your artwork. I would demand my money back and go somewhere else. You are experiencing gross incompetence and yes please, give the name to spare the rest of us this fate.

To add, there is never an excuse for this. Companies need a quality control system and they need to support it otherwise they deserve public embarrassment.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Will you be printing on black shirts only? Or on all sorts of colored shirts? 

Their amended design still have that white outline which is alright on the hearts, none on the smileys, and disproportionately thinner on the peace sign.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

On black. The outline is there on the smileys, same width as the peace sign, just harder to see because of the adjacent yellow. 

I'm trying to figure out how to get past the sames manager at the company to call their attention to this bologna.


----------



## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

wormil said:


> please, give the name to spare the rest of us this fate.
> 
> .


I agree. IMHO since they have taken the position that this is a standard for their company


> "They won't guarantee registration on a reprint either."


 I don't think it is bashing them to post their name, but rather offering others some helpful guidance into what to expect when submitting art work to this company.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

Well, now I'm told that the transfer method requires an under base because the original design had white and white requires an under base when applied to black garments. 

Their production manager has told the sales manager that the art department should never have suggested the white under base for the non-white elements. If he had seen the work, he would have suggested clear all along. The under base is required because the transfer method requires an under base for adhesive. It just doesn't make any sense. 

I'm through discussing it with them. They told me they are sending new transfers which will "look great." All I have to do is use their postage paid label to send back the defective product. When I get the corrected prints and have returned the garbage prints, I'll test again. Hope all will be well.

I'll also ask to speak to someone higher up on the food chain. I need these now and going elsewhere won't work without rush charges and they've guaranteed the outcome this time. And to get them too me immediately. If it doesn't work, I'm screwed for this project. I'll contact my credit card company and escalate in their company.

The irony is their other job for me, performed at the same time, but prepared for printing on white actually looks fine. They did a good job. It's a different kind of transfer. It presses well and looks great. Test washing it now. 

Thanks for your support folks. When I see others posting about this provider, I'll caution the buyer on a few things. The vendor is well liked here and there's no need to get into a argument about the vendor...


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

brice said:


> Agreed and now they want to replace the white with "clear." I'm beginning to believe the "clear" is a white under base applied correctly. Here's the original artwork and their amended design.


I wouldn't have let them ammend my design like that. That's not the way you designed it.

There's nothing wrong with the first image you posted. It should be able to be printed with plastisol transfers with no issue without putting a white border around it.

Even so, their modified design doesn't match their end result. You should get a refund or a redo just for that fact alone.

Bottom line, the order should be redone in my opinion. And I'd have them do it with your original design...without the outline. 

If they can't do (and it does sound like some type of miscommunication if they can't), then I'd just find another printer that can. There are lots of choices out there.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

The vendor is Versatrans and the product I'm having problems with is their EPT product. The Versatrans transfers look great. It's been suggested through PM that I could create a bigger stink by not naming the company rather than naming them and that naming them is fine as long as I am accurate and correct in relating my experience. 

The resolution I'd like with them is for them to pick up the cost of the reprint including any additional "colors/clear" they need to make it right. They aren't going to do it. They'll replace them with this new "clear" layer, but I have to pay for the additional "color." 

I wasn't posting the vendor as my objective was not to bash a company that is well respected. Again I was just trying to confirm that plastisol transfers should be a viable solution to my needs. You've done that. Thanks. 

I'd recommend Versatrans's Versatranz product. Not sure who sells something like EPT that looks and feels more like a screen print. CAD-Printz from Transfer Express / Stahls is too shiny and doesn't look at all like a true screen print. 

Let's go a different direction. What have you found to be the best solution for spot plastisol transfers on black garments?


----------



## DNeeld (Sep 8, 2010)

I had figured it was either Versatrans or Transfer Express, simply because the addition of a white outline fits their EPT and Goof Proof lines respectively. Personally, I've only used Versatrans a couple of times, but my experiences with them were great. Its disappointing they won't absorb the costs of "making it right", since they are the ones that made it wrong.

A few months ago when I was upgrading my press and ran into some difficulties, Adam Seay of Seay Graphics bailed me out for 6 or 8 large orders of transfers, ranging from fairly simple to pretty complex. I was extremely pleased with his service, speed and quality. You can find him at Seay Graphics Custom Screen Printing Heat Transfers and Embroidery if you are looking for a new supplier.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Not sure who sells something like EPT that looks and feels more like a screen print. CAD-Printz from Transfer Express / Stahls is too shiny and doesn't look at all like a true screen print.


Why order the CAD-Printz instead of just a regular plastisol transfer from Transfer Express (or any vendor)?

Unless I'm missing something with the image you posted, it seems like it could be printed as a regular screen printed plastisol transfer from any number of vendors. I'd definitely check with them first to make sure they can do it correctly without adding any outlines to the image.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I wasn't posting the vendor as my objective was not to bash a company that is well respected.


It's not bashing a company when you are posting your honest experience and looking to get helpful answers 

I think you handled this situation just fine.

_In my opinion, bashing is more like posting "XYZ company sucks, I'd never use them" without explaining the situation that happened or giving any info that would be helpful to others to see what really happened. Or posting over and over again anytime XYZ company is brought up "XYZ company are a bunch of crooks" for revenge or something like that._


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

Rodney said:


> Why order the CAD-Printz instead of just a regular plastisol transfer from Transfer Express (or any vendor)?
> 
> Unless I'm missing something with the image you posted, it seems like it could be printed as a regular screen printed plastisol transfer from any number of vendors. I'd definitely check with them first to make sure they can do it correctly without adding any outlines to the image.


Both Versatrans and Transfer express told me that I needed something other than their standard product. CAD-Printz for Transfer Express and EPT for Versatrans. I would think that a Versatrans with a white under base (that was a real under base and not an under base extending like an outline) would work, but they assured me EPT was the right solution when I made my initial inquiries.

I did write Danny an PM to send him here and share my experience. Perhaps, if he's still around and still their VP, he might be able to help. Stay tuned. Found his name using search...


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Both Versatrans and Transfer express told me that I needed something other than their standard product.


Did they say why? Maybe the number of colors?


----------



## DNeeld (Sep 8, 2010)

Rodney said:


> Did they say why? Maybe the number of colors?


Rodney, Versatrans - in my experience - always recommends and pushes EPT when the transfer is going on dark or multiple color garments.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

Rodney said:


> Did they say why? Maybe the number of colors?


Because it had white content (the lettering) and was going on black garments.


----------



## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks. I was guessing it was Versatranz based on other comments made recently. When I order transfers I always tell them the shirt color and let them figure it out, to date I haven't had anyone screw that up. 

What I'm guessing happens in some of these situations is there is a big shake-up in the company and new people are brought in, usually with the intention of cutting costs or growing business. I work with a guy in the evenings who experienced the same problem - he decided to grow his company and quality went in the toilet because he doesn't have a system in place. When volume is low almost any 'system' will work but when you experience growth the truth is told. Unfortunately the person I'm working with has decided that the problem is not 'the system' (that he doesn't have) but that all the new people aren't adopting 'the system' (which doesn't exist).


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I found the president of Versatrans on Linkedin. I'm writing him and we'll what he thinks about the situation. Stay tuned.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Hope he "reversed" the decision of his staff. I agree with those who think that they should at least offer to redo the disastrous job.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

No response so far.

I did press the Versatrans type of transfer and it looks and launders great. Much softer hand after laundering. 

I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to respond to me.


----------



## Git-Bit (Oct 23, 2009)

Please keep us posted o this...Personally I have pressed thousands of transfers from Versatranz over the last year and a half and can honestly cay that I have had very few problems with the EPT or Versatranz. Problem with the EPT like you said is you have to go into the design knowing about the white outline however you can choose for your base layer to be another color as well in there format. I personally am not crazy about the feel of the EPT but it is pretty durable and I get a lot of repeat customers weekend after weekend so the customers don't mind. The Versatranz is great, but you must use the darker colors and really can't print on anything darker than a sports gray. With all this being said...The problem with yours was in the registration and NOT in the art. Please keep us informed and I will tell you that I have started using another vendor as well as Versatranz and they are Dowling Graphics out of Florida. They have some incredible ganging options and there transfers and service so far have been top notch. Good Luck with your job and please let us know what happens.
Thanks
Chad


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I just received the replacement EPT. They still have a white under lay, but remarkably, there is no white outline and everything is in perfect registration. Looks fantastic. Feels very nice. I this was what I'd have received in the first place, I'd have nothing, but raves for Versatrans.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

The pic you posted is inarguable a defective job. From the post of others it seems like an isolated case but what you were told is not correct. Anyway, nice to hear things are now OK.


----------



## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

I just wish management would call me back to discuss. They need to to keep me as a customer.


----------



## DNeeld (Sep 8, 2010)

brice said:


> They need to to keep me as a customer.


If they won't return your calls, apparently they don't feel the same way.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Let's wait and see.


----------

