# Roland GX 24 vs GCC Puma III (multiple media)



## Tugg Speedman (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok..I have been using a GCC Expert 24 for over a year. Started with sign vinyl then moved into heat transfer vinyl. Now I am looking at getting into cutting rhinestone templates.

I was pretty set on getting a Roland GX24 until recently. I wanted a servo motor machine that could handle most stuff.
I got a few people say the Roland is not all it's cracked up to be with only 250 grams of downforce at the price it's at. I'm not sure what else I would cut that needs up to 600 grams.

It looks like I'll be focusing more on say...40% rhinestone,40% heat transfer vinyl and the regular sign vinyl takes a back seat and should be handled by most any machine.

1. If the prices were the same which would you choose?

2. With the prices being hundreds of dollars apart, would you still choose the Roland or the GCC Puma III?

I don't need the Jaguar being closer to $2k and having what,an optical eye?

I know Roland has good support but not sure how GCC support is since I never needed it so far (knock on wood)


Thanks everyone


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## jackptoke (Jul 21, 2012)

Hi Tugg,
Have you heard of Saga?
I've been looking at it and still weighing my decision if I should go ahead.
Check it out, saga. It claims to have 950g of force and very reasonable.


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## JSISIGNSCOM (Apr 19, 2012)

If your looking at a Roland or PUMA 3, consider a Graphtec CE-5000 . A little more than a puma but not as expensive as a Roland and the CE comes with a stand . Most of my customers use a Graphtec for rhinestones and use an expert for their basic vinyl cutting. Also the Graphtec has 400g of down force. It will cut anything you need .


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## shartman (Dec 18, 2008)

We have a GX24 and love it. Have had it for 4-5 years. We cut Heat Transfer vinyl, Rhinestone templets and sign vinyl with no problem at all. We also use it to cut inkjet dark transfer paper.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

When I bought my 1st cutter i looked at Roland & Graphtec but could not figure out what all the excitement was about......So I bought a GCC....I now have 2 GCC Cutters (Expert 24 & Cut 3000) and could not be happier.....Next on the list an a 52" Expert Pro, about 2,000.00...And for those that did not know, GCC now has a 52" Expert for less than 1,000.00 or a 24" Expert Pro for about 1,000.....The Expert has a stepper motor and the Pro has a servo motor....


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

the Puma has an optic eye and 400 down force. I presently run a Puma III and a Jaguar IV the Roland contour cutting system is a bit easier. I did have a Roland before switching to GCC I don't know about after purchase support as I have not needed with either system.


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## Tugg Speedman (Feb 12, 2012)

Still seems tough. It's like there are at least three that match each other in performance. Feels like you're paying a premium to get a Roland with good support. 

Since this will probably the last time I upgrade for a while, I wanted something that could cover most anything I need to do.
Unless I start making plenty of sales to support another one.

I just don't want to upgrade each year like if I owned an Apple product.

Puma is cheaper, Roland has easier contour cutting, good support. Graphtec comes with a stand. 


Back to more research. :what:

More opinions would be welcome especially from owners of both.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

Roland has a good track record as far as quality and I would never knock the quality of their machines. At the ISS Show last week, I noticed that they raised the retail price of the GX24 from $1795 to $2095. I didn't stop to ask why.
Graphtec has discontinued their CE-5000 cutter and is replacing it with the CE-6000. I don't know much about it but their product manager is a buddy and came by our booth to give us some brochures to look at. I haven't had time to look into it much, but he told me that they had sold out of the CE-5000 so any that are still out there are leftover inventory with distributors.
I do know GCC cutters. A couple of features that the Puma III has over the Roland is that you can cut from the outside edge of each pinch roller rather than from the very center of the pinch rollers. It doesn't seem like a lot, but when I have a design that will fit perfectly on a piece of template material or vinyl, it has come in handy more times than I would have thought. It does have more downforce at 400 grams over the Roland 250, which doesn't seem to be a big deal since I never go over 140 grams, but the Roland sales manager explained to me that it's important not to go too close to the max because you don't want to overwork your motor.
I don't do print and cut so I can't compare the optical eye from one to the other.
I know that if you get the Puma III with stand, you're still under $1400.

As for support, that should really come from the distributor and not from the manufacturer.


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## JSISIGNSCOM (Apr 19, 2012)

Here is some food for thought to help you. in 3 years I have had to fix 6 GCC expert 24's and 3 puma 3's. Only one Graphtec has come back to my shop and had to have the button replaced after 7 years of use. I haven't had one Roland come back(but they have their own cutter repair).
And as for the CE-6000 (which is replacing the 5000) it seems to incorporate the control panel from the FC-8000 series and built on the same chassis . So they are all similarly matched in certain areas , But when it comes to quality I will recommend either Graphtec or Roland.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

JSISIGNSCOM said:


> Here is some food for thought to help you. in 3 years I have had to fix 6 GCC expert 24's and 3 puma 3's. Only one Graphtec has come back to my shop and had to have the button replaced after 7 years of use. I haven't had one Roland come back(but they have their own cutter repair).
> And as for the CE-6000 (which is replacing the 5000) it seems to incorporate the control panel from the FC-8000 series and built on the same chassis . So they are all similarly matched in certain areas , But when it comes to quality I will recommend either Graphtec or Roland.


Can you compare the number of machines sold? For example, if you've sold 100 Pumas and 10 GX24s, that would obviously stand to reason that you would have more repairs for the GCC, correct?


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

JSISIGNSCOM said:


> Here is some food for thought to help you. in 3 years I have had to fix 6 GCC expert 24's and 3 puma 3's. Only one Graphtec has come back to my shop and had to have the button replaced after 7 years of use. I haven't had one Roland come back(but they have their own cutter repair).


It is real easy for statistics like this to be out of context without all the data to back it up.....


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## JSISIGNSCOM (Apr 19, 2012)

Usually 3 to 1 GCC to Graphtec and Roland. Also the Graphtec and Roland's are more user friendly to set up and use verses the GCC brand. Im not implying that the GCC are bad , just with how many I sell of each the repair rate for the GCC is higher than the rest . Out of those I have repaired only 2 have been user error all others have been machine failure(1 expert and 1 puma).


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

JSISIGNSCOM said:


> Usually 3 to 1 GCC to Graphtec and Roland. Also the Graphtec and Roland's are more user friendly to set up and use verses the GCC brand. Im not implying that the GCC are bad , just with how many I sell of each the repair rate for the GCC is higher than the rest . Out of those I have repaired only 2 have been user error all others have been machine failure(1 expert and 1 puma).


So you sell GCC 3 to 1 over Roland have had 2 machines need repair, correct? I'm not talking about the Expert 24. Just comparing apples to apples with the Puma and GX24. 
Of course it stands to reason that you'll have more repairs when you sell that many more machines. 

I agree with what Royce said above also.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

shartman said:


> We have a GX24 and love it. Have had it for 4-5 years. We cut Heat Transfer vinyl, Rhinestone templets and sign vinyl with no problem at all. We also use it to cut inkjet dark transfer paper.


Please tell me your username has another meaning besides what I think it means.  lol


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

JSISIGNSCOM said:


> I will recommend either Graphtec or Roland.



Why? Solely based on repair needs?
How about templates not just stick flock did you test each one for
Flock
Sticky flock
Green rubber
Templates in various thickness 

Did u take notes?


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## JSISIGNSCOM (Apr 19, 2012)

Why I would recommend Graphtec and Roland over a GCC , simply ease of set up for customers, longevity,
and better customer service. I sell all 3 and when it comes down to problems and support hands down better from Graphtec and Roland. And as for repairs of course im going sell more of the lower price ones compared to the higher priced Roland's and Graphtec's . And when customers come in, most do their research and know the Graphtec is 4 to 500 dollars more than a puma 3 but having done their research know that Graphtec and Roland are top machines in these fields and are willing to pay the price.
I have cut stencils from SF, sandblast material of different mils and with great success on all 3 . performance wise the puma is good. My comment was simply stating that for repair wise , that was my ratio and as a tech guy and user my recommendation was Graphtec and Roland before the GCC.


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## Tugg Speedman (Feb 12, 2012)

Sure makes decisions harder when each have strengths and weaknesses. I think all of these three would work fine. 

I think there is a better value in the GCC puma because it has more downforce and is hundreds cheaper than the Roland. 


If all three were priced the same then the choice might change. But the Roland has a price point that might have worked years ago. Not sure how long GCC has been making these, but they have price on their side. 

Roland either needs to step up the pressure or lower the price, otherwise they are going to start to lose money from people that want a better value.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Plus you already know the sofware


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Not sure the pressure thing really matters.....My speedo in my car goes to 160 but I rarely go past 60....

GCC has been making cutters for over 30 years......For many years most of their North American sales were under private labels....Sign Warehouse, Joto, US Cutter, Ordway, etc. all sell re-branded GCC cutters.....

I do not think Roland or Graphtec has to fear GCC taking their market share....As many on this forum have clearly indicated GCC is not to their liking...But for those of us that have taken the "plunge" we are for the most part happy.....


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## Tugg Speedman (Feb 12, 2012)

I was mainly talking about the pressure because it's always better to have something and not need it than need it and not have it.

Probably wouldn't matter if using cleancut blades and making sure that I'm not attempting to cut plywood or something.

Just wanted to make sure it would cover rhinestone templates which would cover most of my other needs.

Had been 100% decided on a Roland, but if the price did go up and the GCC is good enough for less, that makes me think twice about the Roland. I was really set on it,can anyone talk me into it or something? The user interface looks easy.

Wish there were more videos of the Puma III. Tons using the Roland.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Tugg Speedman said:


> Ok..I have been using a GCC Expert 24 for over a year. Started with sign vinyl then moved into heat transfer vinyl. Now I am looking at getting into cutting rhinestone templates.
> 
> I was pretty set on getting a Roland GX24 until recently. I wanted a servo motor machine that could handle most stuff.
> I got a few people say the Roland is not all it's cracked up to be with only 250 grams of downforce at the price it's at. I'm not sure what else I would cut that needs up to 600 grams.
> ...


Boy this thread has taken on a bunch of different directions,, the truth of the matter is your Expert 24 will cut the rhinestone templates with no problem.

There actually would be no practical reason to upgrade your machine unless you need another production machine or want to keep your Expert for back up.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Do you need contour cutting?......If not, look at a GCC Expert Pro for about 1,000.000


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## Tugg Speedman (Feb 12, 2012)

plan b said:


> Boy this thread has taken on a bunch of different directions,, the truth of the matter is your Expert 24 will cut the rhinestone templates with no problem.
> 
> There actually would be no practical reason to upgrade your machine unless you need another production machine or want to keep your Expert for back up.




This is also something I have noticed. I did want to upgrade to a servo machine because I do cutting late at night when everyone is asleep. I expect the servo machines to be a bit quieter. Also would rather play it safe and not push the Expert and have it broken down. I could sell it to a couple of people (while it's still in great shape) that have asked me if I would when I upgrade. They don't need any higher end machines for the small things they might want to do.




royster13 said:


> Do you need contour cutting?......If not, look at a GCC Expert Pro for about 1,000.000


Not as of now,possibly later on.But when I bought the GCC Expert I didn't think I would get into rhinestones in the future. Then my wife saw some rhinestone shirts and wanted some and I saw the potential for more sales.If making glitterflex designs gets peoples attention,rhinestones would work even better.

I've been back and forth on these machines and the rhinestone supplies,vendors,designs. I'm all stoned out.

Thanks all for replies. Keep any comments coming.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

Tugg Speedman said:


> This is also something I have noticed. I did want to upgrade to a servo machine because I do cutting late at night when everyone is asleep. I expect the servo machines to be a bit quieter. Also would rather play it safe and not push the Expert and have it broken down. I could sell it to a couple of people (while it's still in great shape) that have asked me if I would when I upgrade. They don't need any higher end machines for the small things they might want to do.


LOL... That's exactly the reason I wanted to upgrade mine, too! I didn't have the Expert 24, but I had another brand with a stepper motor and it was insanely loud. Then I got my auto open heat press which sounded crazy loud in the little room I had for my office so I moved to another room away from the bedrooms and can be as loud as I want.

There are other features that are nice, such as being able to measure your media's length as well as width and having more control over your settings.


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## Tugg Speedman (Feb 12, 2012)

I have nowhere else to go other than the garage which can get cold and damp,or hot (TX). My computer is in my bedroom along with my "shop". Takes up a corner of the room but I have my supplies under the press and cutter.

My birthday _is_ coming up next month. This can be my excuse to get a better one. One that would serve me for a few years unless I get so busy I need another one.


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

I honestly think you'll be happy with the Puma III if you need the optical eye. I've had a Bengal, a Puma III, and an Expert Pro. Right now I just have the Expert Pro because I don't need the optical eye and it works perfectly for me. I definitely prefer having the LCD display and being able to change my offset and other settings that way.

I'm in central California so my garage is definitely out of the question as well! It gets miserably hot here. Ugh.


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## jwafer1 (Jan 28, 2011)

Divinebling:
What blade depth# (on the blade holder)do u use to cut your stickyflock or glidderflock on the GCC?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using T-Shirt Forums


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

jwafer1 said:


> Divinebling:
> What blade depth# (on the blade holder)do u use to cut your stickyflock or glidderflock on the GCC?


Honestly, I use the same blade and blade depth for everything I cut. I'm the worst example of a distributor.  Lol

It's about the thickness of a credit card. I never change out my blade or adjust my blade depth. Just my downforce. I use 140g for Sticky Flock and 90g for GlitterFlex Ultra. 

I'm happy to answer any questions that you have!


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