# Do it yourself or pay someone else?



## fresh (May 1, 2006)

i want to start my own t-shirt business then branch out to other clothing pieces..when screen printing on to the shirt should i do it myself or pay someone to do it?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I think you could do it either way. We have members here that are doing it themselves (screen printing their own line of t-shirts), and we have members that just send their design to a professional screen printer and have them do the printing.

It can work either way. I guess it depends on *how much you actually want to do* (*and how much you can do* based on your time/budget/physical space constraints).

:welcome:


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## fresh (May 1, 2006)

what would be cheaper


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

fresh said:


> what would be cheaper


If you are just starting out, it would be less expensive to get a few t-shirts printed up by a professional printer than to purchase screen printing equipment. The learning curve (time expense) would be less as well if you outsourced the printing.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Personally I'm inclined to the view that anyone who needs to ask whether or not to outsource printing, needs to outsource. You'd know if you could do it yourself.

Longterm you may want to learn to do it yourself (for satisfaction or maximising profit), but short-term there's no need (and longterm if you're successful you wouldn't be printing them yourself anyway).


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm in the same position as fresh. I've got some good designs (I think...but I suppose everyone thinks this) developed in Photoshop, but don't really know where to go from here. I'd rather have someone else do the printing, and it's heartening to hear that this is a valid commercial option.

Another query: do Tshirt designers generally get their designs screenprinted, or is heat transfer a real option? I get the impression that quality and heat transfer do not generally go hand in hand. Interested in the views of experienced designers...

Cheers


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Ross B said:


> Another query: do Tshirt designers generally get their designs screenprinted, or is heat transfer a real option? I get the impression that quality and heat transfer do not generally go hand in hand. Interested in the views of experienced designers...


People have been successful selling t-shirts printed with heat transfers and t-shirts printed with screen printing. There are some challenges and benefits with each printing method; either way, you have to make sure that you get quality printing on quality garments.


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks Rodney. 

But assuming you do get quality printing on quality Tshirts, aren't heat transfers liable to fade and lose their sharp, vivid quality far faster than screen? That's what I've heard. Any definitive opinions on that, based on experience rather than folklore (which is how I'd classify my information on the subject)??


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Ross B said:


> But assuming you do get quality printing on quality Tshirts, aren't heat transfers liable to fade and lose their sharp, vivid quality far faster than screen?


I think heat pressed plastisol transfers can have similar durability to a screen printed t-shirt.

I'm a bit biased because I really prefer screen printed t-shirts. In my opinion, they are currently the standard for quality and is what you normally see in retail stores.

That being said, I think that heat press done right can sometimes be hard to tell from a screen print.

Each has it's benefits (lots of specialty inks and techniques can be done with screen printing...if that's your thing - heat press can be done "on demand" without much setup cost) and drawbacks.


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## MinusBlindfold (Nov 4, 2005)

I love the hands on feel of doing it myself, and long before i got a press kit I knew I could do it. I kind of don't like the idea of someone coming up with something, and sending it off elsewhere to get done. I think the DIY type approach is more admirable, and shows more character and more interest in screen printing and shirt design in general.

Since I have my own press, I could change up my logo at any given time, put my logo on any area of the t-shirt i see fit, make little sleeve designs, press labeless tags on the inside, and just goof around with designs without being charged more, without consulting anyone, or getting turned down because the people im paying to that think it's dumb and don't want to do it.

Before I got my press, I tried to get a few shirts done by a pro, but I had to have a minimum quantity which sucked, i wanted a logo on the sleeve and front and back, which came out expensive, and they kept telling me what shirts i should get them printed on (gildan 100%) and that fruit of the loom 50.50 would be too thin to print on, so I just thought that was absurd and never dealt with anyone else since.
Also the setup fee's for color's were pricey, and they wanted to tweak my art too, wh ich was also unacceptable.

as for doing it myself, there is alot of frustrations and trial and error, but it feels so awesome when you get the hang of it and do things right, it seems worth it. also, ive been making some $ by also doing custom jobs for freinds and one of a kind shirts, which is also something you can't do if you outsource.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

MinusBlindfold said:


> I love the hands on feel of doing it myself, and long before i got a press kit I knew I could do it. I kind of don't like the idea of someone coming up with something, and sending it off elsewhere to get done. I think the DIY type approach is more admirable, and shows more character and more interest in screen printing and shirt design in general.


I personally don't see how this shows more character, and how it's relevant to running a successful business.

If someone wants to contract out any part of their business, especially if the end product will be better because of it, I think it's smart and shows just as much character.

Just listing *some* of the things required to run an online t-shirt business (in no particular order):

1.Website design/creation
2.Create designs for t-shirts
3.Having shirts printed
4.Shipping shirts to customers
5.Overseeing the running of the business

These are just some of the things involved, and each of these things present various challenges themselves and require lots of time and energy.

I don't see how someone contracting out 1 or more of these things (having the shirts printed in particular) shows less character, or is less admirable than if someone chose to do most or all of these things themselves.

Are people that print their shirts themselves but have someone create their website showing more character than someone that does most of these things, but sends their shirts to someone else to get printed? I certainly don't see how that could be. I also don't see how that's more admirable.

Different people have different skills and different skill levels.

Some people can create websites, others can't. Some can print their own shirts.

I think there is something to be said for someone that can oversee the whole operation and make it successful. Whether they print themselves, create their own website, ship their own products, or have someone else do some or all of those things.

I would also like to point out that there are some people that are too busy running their successful business in order to print their own shirts. And that's mostly because they are busy creating designs, updating their site, shipping their products, and marketing their business.


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

Well, I'm a newbie so am not speaking from a position of experience, but I think Comin'OutSwingin makes a lot of sense. It seems to me curiously judgemental, self-congratulatory and ego-orientated to take the sort of purist stance MinusBlindfold has taken. 

As far as I'm concerned, the most exciting aspect of Tshirt printing is the design itself (and let's face it: if the design stinks, it doesn't matter how accomplished you are at doing the rest of the job of having the Tshirt printed and marketed, whether by yourself or someone else - it ain't gonna work!). What's less admirable about focusing on the thing that excites you most, if that happens to be design, and contracting others to do the parts of the job they specialise in? As far as I'm concerned, the only issue here is whether it is economically feasible. It seems it is, going by most responses - to the posters concerned, thanks for the benefit of your experience.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

MinusBlindfold, while I also disagree about the admirable/character comments (although I think I see what you're getting at), I am right there with you on the thrill (and benefit in flexibility) of doing it yourself.

The feeling you get from designing the shirt and the thrill you get from printing it yourself and seeing it followed through to the finishing point really aren't the same.

This is one of those don't-know-what-you're-missing until you try it situations.


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## MinusBlindfold (Nov 4, 2005)

ok, you guys read into that wrong. I wasn't taking a purist stance and being ego-oriented or whatever, It's just my opinion. 
Since I don't have dollar signs in my eyes everytime I print a shirt, I guess I disagree with contracting different people for jobs I could do. 
Also, I work a part time job and go to school and print shirts, so I guess printing isn't my full time job, therefore when I get a chance to do it, I don't treat it like a job, but rather something fun and something I take enjoyment in. From desiging, printing, shipping, what not, I like it. 
I don't have a store, a website, or sell a high volume of shirts per month. But some people come up to me, through word of mouth and are like "you do those shirts, huh? got any on you?" and I sell them a shirt. 
so i guess Im not at the level of shirt selling you guys are at, and I think our priorities, and opinions, are different.
and my last post, was just that: opinion.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Your opinion was that printing your own shirts is more admirable and shows more character than people that contract their printing out. I don't think I read into it wrong, but I also stated an opinion.

I simply disagree and said why.

There are *many* reasons why someone doesn't print their own shirts, and having dollar signs in their eyes isn't necessarily the reason they contract it out.

Speaking for myself: I am married, have two children (boys ages 8 and 5), work full-time in the medical insurance industry, go to school part-time, and am trying to run a small business. 

With the learning curve it takes to learn to screen print quality shirts, I just simply don't have the time.

I'm sure there are other constraints such as expenses and just the inability to learn to do it that would also hinder people from being able to print their own shirts.

I would love to learn to be able to do it someday. I am sure there is a great degree of accomplishment that comes with printing your own shirts.

But, to make a blanket statement of printing is more admirable and shows more character than outsourcing, I think is quite short sited, especially given the many different reasons people can't/don't print themselves.

My opinion.


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

Again, have to agree with Comin'Out Swingin.

Re your comment: "ok, you guys read into that wrong" - how so? You stated, and this is a direct quote "I think the DIY type approach is more admirable, and shows more character and more interest in screen printing and shirt design in general."

That is obviously your opinion, and like Comin'Out Swingin, I stated my opinion in response: that is, that I think your comment is judgemental and self-congratulatory. I can't see how or why you claim we "read into it wrong (sic)". Your words are your words, and they say what they say. The fact that others challenge or don't share your view does not mean that they interpreted you incorrectly. More ego operating there, in my OPINION.

Take your point, Solmu. I imagine it is very satisfying to see the process through from design to final product. I suspect this is what MinusBlindfold meant to say, minus the judgemental stuff.


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## MinusBlindfold (Nov 4, 2005)

I wasn't being judgmental either. Both styles are admirable, I just said DIY is more admirable in my opinion, but it also doesn't take anything away from people that outsource. 
the way you guys read into that was probably thinking I dont think people who outsource deserve as much credit as people who don't. all i meant was i like DIY approach better. Obviously, from your responses, I didn't choose the best words to convey that.
anyways,
Sorry if enjoying my hobby and effort I put into my shirts makes me seem self-congratulatory.
I like t-shirt making. for a while I was going to outsource, but had a bad experience. since I do it myself though, i tend to lean in favor of that technique. sorry if that chaps anyone's hyde.
honestly I could care less how many people vouch for coming out swingin. if someone said DIY was a big waste of time and wasn't as admirable as sourcing, i wouldn't jump down their throat and call them out on thier words and label them self righteous or whatever. 
If you like what you do and are confident in it, it should take a lot more than some random internet dude not favoring your technique to get under your skin


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## identityburn (Feb 24, 2006)

My partner and I bit the bullet and bought all of our equipment. It cost us around $5k to get everything we needed except blank shirts.

We did a first run of about 12 of our designs to pass out to friends from a local screen printer I sometimes to artwork for. 

I think if you do it yourself it will cost more in the beginning but will save you much more in the long run if you are successful. If you only have a few designs or color options it may be good to contact a local printer to print them up as you need them.

Our problem was we have so many designs, plus each design usually is offered with at least 2 shirt color options. So I figured it would be easier to do it ourselves, plus you don't have to fit in to the printer's schedule. If we want a shirt now we can go out and print it.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Minusblindfold, if what you meant was that you like the do it yourself approach better and that's all you meant, then that's what you should have said. You didn't leave it at that.

I don't know what you were thinking when you talked about printing yourself being more admirable, but it does seem self congratulatory to say: "This is the way I do it and it's *MORE* and admirable and shows *MORE* character." Especially without saying why you believe that.

I don't think anybody was jumping down your throat. I certainly wasn't. You made a comment, I responded to why I believe you are wrong. I hope you don't see someone that simply disagrees with your opinion, as jumping down your throat.

As for the topic of the post, deciding whether to print yourself or pay someone involves lots of factors.

1. Can you afford quality equipment?
2. Do you have room for it?
3. Do you have the time to invest in learning how to make quality prints?

As identityburn stated, printing yourself will probably cost you more in the beginning, but you could probably have a higher profit margin in the long run. But, then you could become so successful that you don't have time to print thousands of shirts!

There are pro's and con's to printing and outsourcing. You need to weigh them, and see what's best for you.


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## MinusBlindfold (Nov 4, 2005)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> Minusblindfold, if what you meant was that you like the do it yourself approach better and that's all you meant, then that's what you should have said. You didn't leave it at that.


well what I said is what I said, in the way i saw fit. i do not regret my words, i just didn't mean them to sound as harsh or to take anything away from one technique over another. I don't need anyone telling me what I should have said either.


Comin'OutSwingin said:


> I don't know what you were thinking when you talked about printing yourself being more admirable, but it does seem self congratulatory to say: "This is the way I do it and it's MORE and admirable and shows MORE character." Especially without saying why you believe that.


I actually had that opinion BEFORE I started printing my own, which is why I picked it up in the first place. I wanted to screen my own shirts, thought I couldn't, was going to get them outsourced, decided not to, and then I really got into printing myself. so regardless if I would be printing my self, I still think it's admirable, more so than sourcing. a lot of people source out there work, no matter what field they're in. bike mfg, shirt printing, metal working, whatever, but I'm always going to show more interest in the people and business that do it themselves. that's all there is to it. 
and i do beleive I explained why i thought so, look over my very first post to see why i favor DIY.


Comin'OutSwingin said:


> I don't think anybody was jumping down your throat. I certainly wasn't. You made a comment, I responded to why I believe you are wrong. I hope you don't see someone that simply disagrees with your opinion, as jumping down your throat.


---I never made a comment that was supposed to reveal any fact, I simply stated my opinion which made you "respond to why I believe you are wrong." I hope you don't see someone having a different opinion than you as wrong.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

I commented earlier that "I think I see what [Minusblindfold is] getting at", so I guess I might as well elucidate that.

In "creative" businesses & endeavours (and by "creative" I mean a business in which something is created, not necessarily the usual meaning, in other words "when you're making something") there are often two approaches: the practical approach, and the artistic approach (not mutually exclusive I know, but humour me a little). For example some people build a house by putting together the correct elements until they have what is considered a house. Others take their time, craft every segment to perfection, and put their heart into the building. For practical reasons the first approach may be considered better, but there are few people who wouldn't rather live in the second house if all matters were equal (which they're not).

One is a builder, the other a craftsman or an artisan. Morally speaking they're no different, and one is not better than the other, but chances are you have a little more respect for the artisan who takes their time to make things perfect.

Personally I'm a person with a romantic bent, and someone who misses artisanship in everyday life.

If an artist designs a shirt and has someone print it they may be an artist, but they're not likely to be an _artisan_. If they are there to supervise the printing and make all the choices - they just don't do the actual printing because they don't have that skillset - that is one thing. But by handing the order off to someone else and leaving it in their hands (i.e. here's my artwork, I'll be back to pick up the finished shirts), they lose something. It's not bad that they're doing that, it just means something is lost to the romantics who care.

I like it when, as much as possible, an item is created by one person, or failing that a tightknit team working closely together (e.g. I don't differentiate between the Coen brothers making a film, and Robert Rodriquez making a film - both are artisans, and the Coen brothers work so closely together they might as well be one person).

As an aside, I would regard someone who sewed the shirts they print on as a better artisan than the rest of us - it just almost never happens (because it's ridiculous from a practical standpoint). Granted it's a sliding scale - if someone went so far as to make their own inks from scratch I'd say they were the better craftsperson for it, but had done something *so* impractical I might lose some respect for them as a human being capable of rational choices. In the case of printing your own t-shirts... it's really not that impractical. If you're successful enough that it is, print your own prototypes.

(I visited a very successful local designer last month who creates printed handbags. She still has a full print setup in her officespace, and she designs and handprints all her prototypes herself - only once she's completed a design is it given to someone else to replicate [fairly normal in the fashion world I guess] - personally I really enjoyed the fact that despite running a huge business she was still involved to that degree - were I to buy one of her products I could know that she had handprinted this design [if not this particular bag] and checked it until she was happy with it - her work is better for it)

A lot of people here have commented on how much they hate big business (e.g. Walmart) and would rather deal with your local corner store - part of that is about customer service and keeping money in the community, but part of it is about retaining these small touches that are lost when business is put first and quality takes a back seat (however slight).

If you print the product yourself you have complete control, and *in theory* it'll be a better product for it (okay the reality is you're probably not as good a printer as your local professional printer, and since you are so close to the design you may not always be able to take a step back and make the right decisions, but *in theory* the artist who stays with their design from start to finish should be able to subtly craft every aspect to perfection to produce the best possible outcome - and as MinusBlindfold said sometimes there are things you can do (and easily even) that an outsourced screenprinter just won't do for you).

So here's the problem...

Do you not respect an artisan more than someone who says "good enough"? Do you not find what they're doing 'more admirable'? Personally I do. I'd rather have a ring made by a jeweller using the utmost skills of his hands than one smelted in a factory. Clearly this is subjective - you may prefer the factory finish.

Point is, to me those who follow the entire process of shirt creation are better artisans, and the better someone is at that the more I 'respect' them. That person is statistically more likely to create a product I wish to wear/endorse.

The problem is when you say "I find it more admirable" you imply that you find something else _less_ admirable. That really isn't the case though. Those who don't print themself are just on the baseline (nothing wrong with that), whereas those who do are attempting to raise the bar. Now obviously we could get into specifics where such and such self-printer sucks and such and such outsourced printer is unusually hands-on and excellent.... but those specific exceptions don't change the generality of _feeling_. It's not meant to be objective.

Hard to get this across without insulting/offending anybody but hopefully you see what I'm getting at. The most important thing to remember is that I'm not saying anyone is a better artist, businessperson, or _person_ than any other - what I'm saying is that they're a better artisan, and that *I personally* (as you may or may not, as is your wont) value artisanship very highly. Some people will think this is an outdated sentiment with no place in this modern world, others will agree with me.

So while I never would have chosen the words MinusBlindfold used, I agree with the gist of what I at least think he's saying.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Well put...

I think the problem comes in, like you say, with the "I find it more admirable." Because it does seem to imply that the the other method is less admirable. And in the context of what the topic of the thread is and the question the OP had about starting a business, how admirable printing one's own shirts is debatable.

One could be printing their own shirts to the detriment of their business. They could be so concentrated on printing, and neglect other aspects of their business, and consequently the admiration for printing their own shirts goes down the drain, because their objective is to run a successful business.

They could be printing their own shirts, but be a very bad business person, have poor customer service, overprice their shirts, don't ship in a timely manner, etc. Then being an artisan, and printing their own shirts doesn't seem so admirable in the grand scheme of running a business.

Solmu, if the gist of what Minusblindfold what saying is how you put it, I also agree with this notion. There is something extra to be said for someone who takes the time to hone their craft and be an artisan. But like I said before, in this situation, there are just so many reasons that people can't/don't print their own shirts, I think the chosen words don't really apply, because they seem to automatically imply that if you don't print your shirts, then you have *less* character and your methods are *less* admirable.

And while this may be the case in some instances, it's hard to just apply that to all that don't print their shirts themselves.


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## MinusBlindfold (Nov 4, 2005)

wow. i didn't think i'd read all of that, but it makes sense as far as what I was trying to say. 
so if i do find one technique more admirable, what's the harm? the object of my admiration shouldn't set off such a wave of response unless someone found offense in it. otherwise it's just another opinion from another guy on the internet.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

No harm at all. 

I was just trying understand why you felt that way. The way you put it seemed to say that anyone that did other than whay you felt was admirable, had less character and what they did was less admirable. That seemed like a very narrow viewpoint to take, given the different reasons why someone may not be doing what you think to be admirable.

Healthy discussion is all it is!


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## MinusBlindfold (Nov 4, 2005)

i guess I'd rather come off as a narrow minded jerk than just WRONG lol. but yeah, all i meant was i lean more in favor of. Anyone in the t-shirt business is ok in my book, regardless of technique.
also, i really didnt contribute to the thread but rather just explained why i like hand screening. but yeah, for starting up, i suggest you find out what you want to do according to interest and budget. do you just want the shirts done? or do you want to learn how to do them yourself? if you're really interested in the process, i suggest investing with a starter kit, but you do have to learn all the steps and mess up a bunch before you get the hang of it. if you're really interested in just getting all your designs out there and selling them soon, it would probably be wiser to get them done for you, for fast turn around times and to test the waters to see if you're stuff will even sell.
i have a kit and it took me a while (a little over two weeks) before i printed a shirt with quality worthy of selling lol. if you get shirts made for you, you can be selling them within a week without any stress of actually making them, just find a printer with decent prices and your set. good luck!


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

I screen print and have just recently opened my online shop. I've found though that since I don't have much business, it's not worth it for me to set up my press to print just one shirt as it's ordered. And since most of my shirts are one or two colors, I've decided to have plastisol transfers produced for me so I can press them one shirt at a time as I get orders.


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

neato

I identify with your situation and have reached similar conclusions re the Tshirt design venture I am planning. Only worry for me is whether transfers can give quality/durability/enduring vividness and sharpness comparable to screenprinting when printing on to 100% cotton (it seems not, from the advice I have received).

Good luck.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Ross,

From what I've read, that's not true at all. Plastisol transfers are supposed to be fantastic. Many even prefer them over direct screenpritning because of the soft hand they achieve. 

Do you have a heat press? If so, order some samples and test them out. I think you'll be surprised. 

Phillip


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## Ross B (Apr 28, 2006)

Interesting, neato - are you sure you're talking about 100% cotton, though?

Any comments from those who know from experience? I'm only going on what I've read, (and it seems this is the same with you, neato - correct me if I'm wrong). 

Cheers


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Any comments from those who know from experience?


If you do a search for plastisol here in the forums (or the heat press forum specifically) you'll see lots of postive opinions about this method.


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