# help with 4 color process printing



## brad (Feb 23, 2007)

I am totally new to this and would like to call and talk directly to someone who can give me a verbal walkthrough before I get to much time invested and flub it up without some tips.
Thanks,brad


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

Post your questions here so others with the same reservations will have info to look on in their time of need.


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## brad (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh I have so many questions. about color seperation in photoshop,quick seps help and making the posotives. Any help would be appreciated


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

brad said:


> Oh I have so many questions. about color seperation in photoshop,quick seps help and making the posotives. Any help would be appreciated


You may want to use the search feature to see if any of your questions have been answered already by past discussions.

But you would need to post your *exact* questions here if you need help


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## batikdruid (Jan 20, 2006)

I really would like to know how to do this too - my designs had 7-9 colors and were expensive, couldn't wholesale -- if I could make designs in 4-5 colors and do my own seps I would love that.


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## k1down (Nov 26, 2007)

batikdruid said:


> I really would like to know how to do this too - my designs had 7-9 colors and were expensive, couldn't wholesale -- if I could make designs in 4-5 colors and do my own seps I would love that.



Hehe you should consider 4-5 color process. 9 colors? Wow... did it come out really cool? I've found once I cross the 6 color mark, my designs always seem to get wonky and seem less refined unless the additional colors are just fine details.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

brad said:


> I am totally new to this and would like to call and talk directly to someone who can give me a verbal walkthrough before I get to much time invested and flub it up without some tips.
> Thanks,brad


Do a search for posts made by ImageIt pertaining to process printing. Fred has posted some great info on 4 color process. Everything from Photoshop separations to exposure and printing.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

Nice print on the dali lama. Are you calibrating your process or your press?
Imageit i'm not trying to offend you but if you can"t print white what is all this talk about calibration. very few presses out there can be calibrated properly. the only one i can think of is a MHM press. Speaking in terms of reasonable production of course. when you say i have a six color micro registration press, your basically saying your heads have the ability to move around. that's fkn crazy, think about it. without getting to critical about the entire process there are some fundamental issues you have to consider standardizing after prepress. (emulsion thickness, tension, blade deflection, color density, spectrometer analysis, dot gain, ink viscosity, relative humidity.....).
I like your drive and outside the box thinking. if you are serious about calibration or standardizing your process i would be glad to help you. i have 28 patents on screen printing. my forte is making standards.


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## staned (Feb 25, 2007)

hey buzz, i see you used mhm as the only example of a press that can be calibrated properly. is this because of motorized micros or the massive main beam they use on their print heads. i've never noticed any slop in my anatol auto, but if you say its there it must be. guess its time to junk the anatol and get on board with a winner like mhm. thanks for setting us straight. stan FOR SALE! sloppy old auto(not mhm) for scrap or carnival parts. owner looking to step up to a real mhm auto.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

I think I saw on another thread that you'd tried Union's Bright Cotton White, but if not, give it a shot. You can print it pretty thinly as an underbase through a 156 with two hits. Also on your previous thread I had posted questions about printing process on darks, and thought your attachements looked good, so I gave it a shot and, except for the crappy photo I was working with, damned if the general job of process on the white underbase didn't come out pretty good for me. Nice rosettes, used Photoshop default angles as you did, no moire . . . who'd have thunk it? Thanks for the encouragement by example.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

I find that yellow and magenta are the hardest to control. You can hardly see the effect of the yellow before the other colors are down, and with magenta it always seems to be on hit is too little and the second is too much. I've still got a long ways to go, but the fact that anything comes out with some measure of success keeps me going. It's like golf . . . it sucks most of the time (except for the beer), but when you hit a really nice drive, it's like crack.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

staned you can use a m&r press, my personal favorite. unfortunately they were designed with marketing as one of there focus points. Marketing being they were looking at a lack of how a customer standardizes his processes. MHM on the other hand was designed with strict performance and repeatability tolerances as there focus points not caring what supporting products were out there. as far as what makes it a more repeatable press, basically the materials used and the spec tolerances they used for there parts. design is a big factor also. i rebuilt an M&R press recently using 
1 1/8" solid rod, replacing the 3/8" rod that was used. That's a big difference but my goal was different than M&R, if they wanted to they could build a press better than MHM but there goal was to sell presses not give the few printers who noticed how screwed up our industry is like Imageit is aware of, a fighting chance.

If you standardized 1 thing at it's fundamental level all your other processes don't work as well or work at all. by fundamental i am referring to perfection within the fundamental approach and a repeatability with that approach with a 99% success rate.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

Imageit - all of my patents are on standardizing processes with a few on product. for example welding creates tension, when you create a product that needs to be flat like a screen frame it will always try and balance it's molecules, thus a warped frame. ahh i gotta go i will post later


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## staned (Feb 25, 2007)

---------?--------


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

BACK.. so i have a patent on a process that fuses metal together without welding. that is basically the type of patents i have. kinda boring, if you want to check them out i will get the patent numbers for you.


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## k1down (Nov 26, 2007)

buzzbox said:


> BACK.. so i have a patent on a process that fuses metal together without welding. that is basically the type of patents i have. kinda boring, if you want to check them out i will get the patent numbers for you.



That is pretty hard to imagine. I would really like to see anything that could describe that process to me. It sounds fascinating.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

the process is easy - the hard part is making it cost effective, that is the key and that is why it was patented.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

Not doubting you, but if you have a patent on a process that fuses metal without heat, you should be wiping you or a** with $100 bills. I've been in manufacturing and welding for 25 years. A process like that, whether cost effective or not, would be very useful in precision manufacturing. I'm surprised the government hasn't liberated that patent from you.

If I'm not mistaken, Airbus is using a similar process to fuse aluminum panels on their new 380. It was on the Discovery channel. I remember something about welding without heat.


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

ImageIt said:


> Check out my earlier post on using a calibrated double stroke. The theory is that 2 strokes will give more than enough ink to be dark enough and by using 2 strokes, the average of the 2 strokes will make the ink volume more consistent. As long as the action is consistent, the value of the halftone screen can be modified in the separation process using a set of constants.
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t29657.html
> 
> fred


My problem is maintaining the same squeegee angle and pressure. I find that even a slight change in angle effects the amount of ink deposited.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

your completly missing the point Imageit. ya 2 strokes will be brighter but why? think about it - the first stroke is saturating the shirt, the second is saturating the top. end result is double the amount of ink (bad feel) 
,time,energy and worst of all no control. Use your flood for the 1st stroke, the ink is then pushed thru the mesh before it comes in contact with the garment. a super sharp sqeegee then cuts the ink or shears it as it comes in contact with the surface of the shirt. End result is all the ink is on top of the shirt not filling the shirt with ink.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

if you would like a more detailed reason why this is hard to achieve and most printers fail at this fundamental concept i will send you an email.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

what do you manufacture rrc?


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

your perspective is from the ink side. try looking at what the sqeegee and mesh dynamics actually do.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

the sqeeqee and mesh push against each other creating what? forget your printing a shirt. think.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

what is happening is your pushing on the shirt before this effect can happen. am i gonna have to fly out there a prove this?


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## rrc62 (Jun 2, 2007)

buzzbox said:


> what do you manufacture rrc?


I used to manufacture automated machinery. Commercial automated baking equipment mostly. Probably 70/30 independent consulting/direct employment.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

that industry scares the hell out of me. stone ages.


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## buzzbox (Oct 24, 2007)

i was asked to help automate a baking process for jelly belly. omg they were using pre sized measuring cups so the cooks had no idea of actually how much ingredients they were using. this became an issue during a shift change when there was a missing cup.


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## 211chucky (Mar 23, 2010)

buzzbox said:


> Nice print on the dali lama. Are you calibrating your process or your press?
> Imageit i'm not trying to offend you but if you can"t print white what is all this talk about calibration. very few presses out there can be calibrated properly. the only one i can think of is a MHM press. Speaking in terms of reasonable production of course. when you say i have a six color micro registration press, your basically saying your heads have the ability to move around. that's fkn crazy, think about it. without getting to critical about the entire process there are some fundamental issues you have to consider standardizing after prepress. (emulsion thickness, tension, blade deflection, color density, spectrometer analysis, dot gain, ink viscosity, relative humidity.....).
> I like your drive and outside the box thinking. if you are serious about calibration or standardizing your process i would be glad to help you. i have 28 patents on screen printing. my forte is making standards.


i know this post is old but i cant find anything on actual help figuring out process printing. i have searched the forum and i cant read anymore i have searched so much. you know what this forum needs is a chat thing. you know, where you can chat directly like google talk or somethinglike that!! that would help a lot of people out like me that try to do things "right now" we need advice when we are in the middle of a print, not two days later!!


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

Even having a chat feature may not help someone who has a job on press that's giving him trouble if the people with the know-how aren't goofing off on their computer at the same time.
Why not start a new thread on the problem you're having, or say what it is on this one now?


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