# So you want me to work for free hmmm...



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I Just love clients who think "they" deserve to get work done for next to nothing because they assume they will be my best customer in whole wide world.

A few days back, one call won an award for complete BS.
Client sells retro canvas prints of peoples pictures and wanted to do a few hundred jobs a month.
I gave him an extremely fair price but wasn;t good enough, they bickered over $5. Yep $5 on a $32 Price and wanted me to include package for free.

Gets sooo much better, so I print, package and ship item for lets say $32 and he charges $215!

Damn I am in wrong business and wrong side of it apparently, but a guy who is making such a huge profit margin still bickers over small change.

Told guy," Sorry I got plenty of work which consist of corporate work and I don't work for free"

Regardless I prob would of made a descent profit margin but turned down job over principle.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

I hear what you're saying, but the retail biz isn't as simple as "buy for $32, sell for $215." Maybe he has rent, employees, travel expenses, sales commissions to pay out, insurance, utilities, etc. So the profit margin may not be as huge as you think.

Obviously, you need to run your business as you see fit. But it seems odd that you would turn down a decent paying job over a principle that may or may not be accurate.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I understand how retail works, overhead ect.

I did it for a long time, but this ain't like selling a t shirt with small profit margins, he has a large profit margin to play with and expect me as to be his follower...

I didn't become a business owner to have other people to tell me how much I should expect to get.

At end of day I figured, someone who wants to j** me down, will end up being major headache at end of day with other things.

Pretty sure who don;t got many employee, just a "partner' because I was gonna be his B* : )


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

clone his business model and star selling them for $175... send him a brochure!


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Thinking about it, figure can have someone do art for $20 and I can under cut him by half


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Tim I agree with you. It is for that reason, I do not care nor do I want to know what someone is making on my work. My price is my price which is a fair price. If after a time you prove to be a good customer and I can rework and save us both money I will and have been known to do that. Principle is a big thing in my business and I am the one that has to look in the mirror. I try never to be in a position to be held hostage and have fired customers in the past and know I will in the future. As stated, it is not your job to worry about his overhead - for what yours doesn't matter. So lets see you eat hamburgers while they eat steak. hip hip horay - I sorry for any inconvenience, but I have a large order that will make it impossible to do yours. Always leave em, smiling.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Tim and Irv,

This is the same thought process I use with my products. I hear all the time how some company is going to sell a ton of ___ because they are going to do it at such a low price point and how I need to drop my price to make this happen. I like to see myself as a Ripley's Guy - show me you can do it and I will work with you. Talk is cheap and will not pay my bills. When I get a product made for me, I ask for the same from the vendor. If I can provide the product will sell and I bring you more business, I ask that we can relook at the price at that point. Bottom line - prove you deserve a better price with sales.

Mark


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## Red Leaf (Feb 2, 2011)

Tell him to send it my way, i'll print them for 32.lol


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

stretched and packaged 18x18


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

All I am saying; you have an obligation to protect your profession and treat yourself like a professional. You can always undercut your neighbors and your business, but when you do not have money to grow your business, unexpected events, or errors then see how it feels to work for free. Folks need to value their time and so many are willing to undercut that. Let me know how well you make out hagling with your doctor or your mechanic. I always say, you get what you pay for - lets see the undercutters achieve standards and if they can - please forward me their info.


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## Mtnview (Nov 5, 2009)

idonaldson said:


> All I am saying; you have an obligation to protect your profession and treat yourself like a professional. You can always undercut your neighbors and your business, but when you do not have money to grow your business, unexpected events, or errors then see how it feels to work for free. Folks need to value their time and so many are willing to undercut that. Let me know how well you make out hagling with your doctor or your mechanic. I always say, you get what you pay for - lets see the undercutters achieve standards and if they can - please forward me their info.


Irv you've been on this forum longer than I have and this is the first time I realized you were here. I must not have seen any of your other posts. Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. Carry on


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## Mtnview (Nov 5, 2009)

mrbigjack50 said:


> I Just love clients who think "they" deserve to get work done for next to nothing because they assume they will be my best customer in whole wide world.
> 
> A few days back, one call won an award for complete BS.
> Client sells retro canvas prints of peoples pictures and wanted to do a few hundred jobs a month.
> ...


We are getting ready to make our capabilities available to photographers using a volume based rebate. They will pay a certain amount for prints with a rebate at the end of the month based on volume. I figure this will keep the "I'll be your best customer" from getting the good discount on the first one or two and then not hearing from them again for a month. In theory anyway.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

You are a hijacker - knew it - No I joined when I first got into the industry seriously and then I fell off immediately until I went to Long Beach and met a group of nice folks from this forum - so it was funny because I remembered my name and password and have been contributing ever since. I spend most of my time trying to assist folks on MyVersaCamm.com. Glad to be here - lots of good stuff.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

We dumped all of our PITA wholesale customers. New ones are welcome but they get the highway if they get out of line.


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## micromaui-closed (Mar 9, 2010)

man- this is a topic for all skilled trades- I have run into this mentality on many other projects. I feel both ways. Some people just like to bargain - they assume that we- like them- are making a killing. I did a cash job for well known millionaire for $235. she gave me $240 after the work, and I thought she was giving me some small tip. she asked me what I was doing when I walked off? She said 'where's my change?' I didnt have any, so gave her a $20 bill back. She didnt even say thanks. Its hard not to get emotional sometimes. But the balls in your court- but just let them know the reason- if that kinda thing bothers you.


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## Mtnview (Nov 5, 2009)

mrbigjack50 said:


> stretched and packaged 18x18


How do you package prints Sean? Is there a store that has packing materials specifically for prints?


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Now you know how they made the millions - 5 dollars at a time with a 15 dollar tip.


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## charlieshirt (Jan 31, 2011)

I can't tell you how many times I have been told there's more work to come in the future if you help me out on this one. 
It never happens and all I've done was set a precedent, a bad one at that.
Sure, I negotiate from time to time, that is after all just good business but I've learned there is a limit. I stand behind what I do and always deliver a great product. This is my reputation and word of mouth has passed on a lot of work because of it. 
If you can make a profit and it's fair to you, who cares what happens after it leaves your building.


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## Extrememgmt (Oct 22, 2007)

charlieshirt said:


> I can't tell you how many times I have been told there's more work to come in the future if you help me out on this one.
> It never happens and all I've done was set a precedent, a bad one at that.
> Sure, I negotiate from time to time, that is after all just good business but I've learned there is a limit. I stand behind what I do and always deliver a great product. This is my reputation and word of mouth has passed on a lot of work because of it.
> If you can make a profit and it's fair to you, who cares what happens after it leaves your building.


Negotiating is a part of business and I am never offended when someone tries to negotiate with me for a better rate.

Last year I started with two new vendors, a local T-shirt printer and a button printer I found online. Both had good prices, the button guy I bought with his normal prices, the T-shirt guy I negotiated slightly. Both of them delivered, the button order had a few extra and the T-shirt guy got the order done 3 days ahead of schedule, so I made sure to re-order from both right away to show I was a good customer and appreciated their efforts.

On the other hand, when I used to sell advertising in a magazine, clients felt like it should be my privilege to have their ads in our mag. One client was late with his payment one month so when I called him he made his payment and promptly canceled his ads, like us expecting to be paid for the service we provided was rude or something.

Ed


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Mtnview said:


> How do you package prints Sean? Is there a store that has packing materials specifically for prints?


Its not a basic print, it was job for a canvas print stretched on stretcher bars, if it was just a print job, I prob. could of worked with them but when alot of labor is involved than that's a different story.

I package everything myself, guy expected me to included packaging of job for free Ha.

Usually I use boxed I get and reuse or cut them to size, man I get like alot of boxes per day : )


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

When someone tells me they will give me more biz later for a good deal today it is a red flag. These customers get an instant 'upgrade' to their price.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I never fall for the "I will do Millions" with you pitch, god, I can't even tell you how many clients pull that line on me saying, give me a chance and I be your best customer.

Those are ones who end up being biggest headaches, and not paying.

Got a real winner on that talley, guy who wanted to doing "millions with school teams" has ended up not being able to pay a $300 tab.
Some people are a real joke


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