# DTG Printer Review from Orlando Show



## aloud (Mar 22, 2007)

I have been a screen printer for 35 years. When I started, there were no commercial printers available, we had to make our own. We even had to make our own emulsions out of elmers glue and amonium bicromate. I have watched that industry grow to what it is today. As an artist from the beginning, I have always been frustrated at the limitations at what you could do with screen printing and that is why DTG printing has me excited.

I have been watching closely for the past few years to see where it goes. The machines and inks are improving each year and it looks like it may now be getting closer to being ready for prine time.

I looked all of the new machines over at the show and they all are doing a pretty good job. There is really not a major difference between the lower end machines. On all of them, printing on dark shirts takes a lot of prep work and the ink cost is $4-$6 per print. They are all slow in the 6-10 minute range for a 14"x14" design on a dark shirt and the ink is very thick.

I took my own artwork and had several companies print it for me on both light and dark shirts. Some of the companies would not print my own design for me. The quality was pretty close from all of them. They were all slow on dark shirts. The white ink cost for printing on dark shirts was high for all of them.

There is one standout in this new industry and it is the Kornit. I had neverf seen one before this show, and it blows all of the others away. It automatically pre-treated and printed the large design on black shirts in just 2 minutes and on light shirts in a minute or less. The hand was much softer on the dark shirts than any of the others as well. It is a real piece of machinery. The major drawback is that this machine is $92,000. The inks however are much cheaper for this machine. They said the large print on the dark shirt including pre-treat was less than .50 and on the light shirt was .15. I have no way of verifying this, but this is a big savings. I could not verify the ink costs any of the others were giving me either. They apparently make their own inks and it is different than any of the inks the other companies are using. If this is true, then even with the high price tag, the number of shirts needed to be printed for the return on your money is not so bad.

If we take use the low ball figure of selling a dark colored shirt for $10, on most of the lower end machines, your cost of shirt and ink would be around $6 ($2 for shirt and $4 for ink), for a profit of $4 per shirt. On the Kornit your cost of shirt and ink would be $2.50 ($2 for shirt and .50 for ink), for a profit of $7.50 per shirt.

On a $20,000 machine, you would have to print 5,000 shirts to pay for the machine. On the $92,000 machine, you would have to print 12,266 shirts to pay for the machine. This is just 2.5 times as many shirts to pay for a machine that cost almost 5 times the price. You can also print 3-4 shirts in the same amount of time so in reality, it would also take less printing time to pay for the more expensive machine.

You do need a conveyor dryer to dry the shirts instead of a heat press, but this also speeds up the process and allows you to keep up with the higher production rate.

The problem is, is that this machine is out of the price range for most people so it will never be an option.

Most all of the machines are getting to where most of the bugs are getting worked out, but they are still slow and the inks are expensive. You also have to do the pre-treat before you print. 

Out of all of them, the Kornit is the only one I think is ready to seriously take on screen printing.

If anybody out there has a Kornit, would you please verify the ink cost. This could be a real eye opener.

And just in case anyone is wondering, I am not affiliated with any company. I am just seriously looking at getting into this new industry.


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## rndubow (Feb 18, 2007)

You are correct in your determination that the cost per print on the Kornit is lower than the other digital printers on the market. However, the .50 per print is so far off base that it is ridiculous. My average cost per print including both white shirts and colored shirts last year on my 931 was about $1.00 per shirt. This was based on printing 65% of the total shirts on colored shirts and 35% on white shirts. I would guess that 15% of the total of shirts were also left front chest or similar size. I believe that you will be looking at about $1.25 per shirt for colored shirts and somewhere around .65 for white shirts. 

The Distributors who blatantly mis-quote the true cost of printing do a great disservice to the people who currently own the machines and know the true cost of doing business. When new people enter the market they will typically under price the finished product because they think their costs are lower than they actually are hurting the market for everyone. I know this because I did it 2 years ago when I entered the market. I quickly realized my mistake and corrected my pricing to an accurate cost.

Good luck and I hope this helps with some accurate numbers.


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## aloud (Mar 22, 2007)

Thanks. I was hoping someone who had a Kornit would tell the real cost of printing. I am sure that the cost estimates I received from all of the other companies are low balled as well so it is still going to shake out the same. Even at your prices, the Kornit still gives a much higher profit margin per shirt and a quicker return of your money.

Did you start out with one of the smaller machines and then move up to the Kornit? Are you happy with the Kornit?


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## rndubow (Feb 18, 2007)

I went directly into the Kornit. I own a larger Contract Decorating company so I have to look for the most efficient machine on the market to generate the type of numbers I need to make money. The improvements in the technology and ink over the past year have really been a tremendous help in achieving the quality and speed i was looking for.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

aloud said:


> If we take use the low ball figure of selling a dark colored shirt for $10, on most of the lower end machines, your cost of shirt and ink would be around $6 ($2 for shirt and $4 for ink), for a profit of $4 per shirt. On the Kornit your cost of shirt and ink would be $2.50 ($2 for shirt and .50 for ink), for a profit of $7.50 per shirt.


Selling a single dark shirt for $10 is like going to a tourist trap store and seeing 10 shirts for $10. That is just wrong! No offense, but one of the toughest things that I have encountered is talking with screen printers about pricing for sublimation and dtg printing. This is custom, short-run printing and the price needs to be dramatically higher. Most people that I know will sell a single dark garment shirt for $20 - $25 because of the factors you just described above (time, cost,...). A good quick rule is take whatever your cost is and multiple it times 4 and that is your pricing for one-off runs. I just went to CafePress and they sell most of the dark shirts in the $25.00 range. Adjusting your numbers would mean that you would have to print between 1050 to 1425 shirts to ROI out a $20,000 machine if all you were doing was printing dark shirts. Light shirts are definitely more profitable, less time consuming and less likely to make a mistake.

I agree with Rob that there are some sales people that don't say the correct cost per print. Some times it is because they are sales people that really don't know the machines and are just relaying the message they were told. Other times, they are just trying to make a sale. There are several factors that go into what the cost per a print is and that can be misleading (i.e. amount of coverage, how the underbase is done, is there a white highlight, will the machine require maintenance spitting before/during/after the printing,...). I always tell people to take what the cost per print is and multiply it by 1.2 to 1.5 to cover all the maintenance (nozzle check, head cleaning, maintenance spitting,...) and the misprints that are going to happen. This way your pricing covers this extra ink that will not show up on any ink calculator in the RIP.

As for a Kornit user that you can talk to, check out www.kornitusers.com and feel free to contact Justin Walker at Contract DTG. Justin has talked to a lot of prospective Kornit buyers and has gone through the ups and downs of the machine. He also used to own a smaller machine as well.

Best wishes in your search.

Mark


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## sharktees (Dec 12, 2007)

I also was at the Orlando showand finally got to see the Kornit in action for the first time,Its so fast I it made my mouth water.I started out screenprinting also and got into the DTG market 2 years ago with the t-jet 2 what a dissapointment,we quit printing darks because of the cost and inherent problems with their white inks but we do print a ton of light colored shirts.Because they are now on their 3rd ink set we have to cure for 150 seconds and thats way to slow so we bought the brother this weekend from Brian Walker at Direct2shirt hes a great guy and not the a real salesman type I did alot of research on the brother and I'm sure I'll be happy with it,can't wait to get it.But after seeing the kornit in action I really want one I figure a 932NDS will run about 130K once you get a dryer rip compressor etc... but if you can get enough work it sure beats screenprinting.


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## mk162 (Sep 24, 2007)

You will be happy with the Brother, I am.

As far as pricing goes, I am not a huge fan of selling one or two shirts. I like to sell a dozen or two. There is much more profit in that.


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## sharktees (Dec 12, 2007)

AMEN to that!!!


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

The real difference between getting a $10K machine or a $92K machine is the amount of sales you are going to do. There is no way a one man shop is going to buy more expensive machine without the sales to back it up. Additionally, each machine will compete in a different space. 

The single print low cost machine will compete well in the 1-50 unit market while the more expensive one will compete well in the 25+ unit market. The smaller machines don't take much to fire up and print one shirt while the larger printers are more involved so I cannot see someone with a $92K machine even considering selling 1 unit unless there is a lot of upside potential coming along with it. 

As far as competing with screen printers, that is another story. As the number of units in a job increases I think the screen printer still has the edge on cost but the DTG printer is more versatile and doesn't require amount of space or equipment that a screen printing shop does. No exposure unit, emulsions, dozens of inks, screens, recovery unit, large space for a printer. The DTG unit does need more of a climate controlled room, almost a clean room type of setup so the environment is an issue. 

Overall, if someone is just getting into the business on a shoestring then either a small screen print setup or a dtg printer is an option. 

For an established shop with thousands in business a day/week, then I would think springing for the larger machine is the direction to go in and use the machine to open up a new market space.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

Brian is a great guy and you will be very happy with the Brother. We love ours and Brian is an awesome person., can't say enough good things about him.

Good luck to you



sharktees said:


> I also was at the Orlando showand finally got to see the Kornit in action for the first time,Its so fast I it made my mouth water.I started out screenprinting also and got into the DTG market 2 years ago with the t-jet 2 what a dissapointment,we quit printing darks because of the cost and inherent problems with their white inks but we do print a ton of light colored shirts.Because they are now on their 3rd ink set we have to cure for 150 seconds and thats way to slow so we bought the brother this weekend from Brian Walker at Direct2shirt hes a great guy and not the a real salesman type I did alot of research on the brother and I'm sure I'll be happy with it,can't wait to get it.But after seeing the kornit in action I really want one I figure a 932NDS will run about 130K once you get a dryer rip compressor etc... but if you can get enough work it sure beats screenprinting.


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