# I want to buy a test plastisol shirt from a MASTER maker



## tshirtnoob (Nov 16, 2007)

I would like to PURCHASE 2 shirts from someone here. Why?
After much research, the following seems to be true. 

1. Hot split plastisol transfers are the closest to a screen printed shirt
2. Plastisol shirts DONE RIGHT are of equal quality to a screen print
3. A quality plastisol transfer will last longer than the shirt, or longer than a screen printed shirt

SO PROVE IT. I need to see it with my own eyes.
I will do 50 test washes on the shirt too.

I would like to purchase two shirts from someones t-shirt shop who has a lot of experience in plastisol transfers, and is 100% confident they are producing the highest possible quality plastisol transfer shirt.

I want one white shirt and one black shirt.
At least 3 colors on each shirt.

Please provide or PM me a link directly to THE shirt you would like me to purchase. Include which type of plastisol transfer you are using, whether hot/split or whatever.

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Side notes: I do not require hot split, if you think another type of plastisol transfer is closer to that of screen printing, let me know your experience here.

Also.... for black/dark shirts, not sure which type of plastisol transfer is closest to a screen print on a dark shirt. Please explain here as well.


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## eccApparel (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't print transfers, but from what I understand plastisol transfers are screen printed. So they shouldn't be any different. You can buy plastisol transfers proworldinc.com. It's the exact same stuff as choice shirts.


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## tshirtnoob (Nov 16, 2007)

I know they are screen printed, but what is actually put on the shirt is very different from silk screening and the process is totally different.

Before I dive into producing these, I want to see what a quality real life shirt looks and feels like, so I can compare to silk screened shirts.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

tshirtnoob said:


> I know they are screen printed, but what is actually put on the shirt is very different from silk screening and the process is totally different.
> 
> Before I dive into producing these, I want to see what a quality real life shirt looks and feels like, so I can compare to silk screened shirts.


The basic difference is if the transfer is created for both dark and light colored tees. Simply put there is going to be an underbase of sorts and both white and black inks may be used even if the tee is black or white. Sometimes you dont need those colors if the tee color can represent that color.

That may be confusing but its the difference I notice. As far as print durability they are the same. The difference in printing is the transfer is mirrored and color application is done in reverse.


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## BraitosTees (Jul 31, 2009)

I have been in the screen printing industry for 30 years, worked for the largest screen printing company in the world at the time, Winterland Productions. I also worked for the largest hot peel transfer manufacturer, Chain Enterprises and watched over the last 10 plus years the DTG come to vision. Nothing to this day or ever will beat direct screen printing, in both production time, production cost, longevity and quality of print. Dye sublimination transfers are the next best thing to screen printing. The softhand feel and the fact that you dye the garment is superior to any other form of transfer. 

No matter how good your hot peel plastisol transfer it still sits on top of the shirt. DTG techiniquies however getting better over the last few years still are not up to par even with longevity.

So your best way to produce more than 4 shirts is screen printing. Dye sub is next best but limited to white material.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

BraitosTees said:


> No matter how good your hot peel plastisol transfer it still sits on top of the shirt.


This is not entirely true, as the pressure of the heat press forces the liquified ink into the shirt as screenprinting would. 

You can cut garments that are pressed or printed down the print area and see this in action. IMO, some of the samples of plastisol transfers I have pressed are better than many of the screenprinted shirts I have seen.


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## proworlded (Oct 3, 2006)

tshirtnoob, what is the purpose of your 'research'?


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## tshirtnoob (Nov 16, 2007)

I have a several websites that get some decent traffic. Combined, I get over 1 million unique visitors a month. Im looking to monetize my websites more, and since many t-shirt companies advertise on my sites, I figured, id cut them out and advertise my own shirts.

Im trying to decide if the quality of a well done plastisol shirt is up to my standards.
So I wish to purchase some real life examples, from people who consider themselves pro's at plastisol transfers. I want to see how good a plastisol tranfer shirt can look.

I want to see the best of the best. If its still not up to par, then I will have to consider silk screening my shirts instead, which has a lot more overhead for starting up.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

do you already have a heat press? cuz if you do just ask for samples from some of the vendors and apply to your own shirts. that way you are in control of the whole procees.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

tshirtnoob said:


> Im trying to decide if the quality of a well done plastisol shirt is up to my standards.


Out of curiosity what are your standards and do you have the experience to judge the products? You mention wash durability (only 50 washes) but outside that what qualities are you judging? An experienced screenprinter will see many flaws that the average person would not.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

BraitosTees said:


> I have been in the screen printing industry for 30 years, worked for the largest screen printing company in the world at the time, Winterland Productions. I also worked for the largest hot peel transfer manufacturer, Chain Enterprises and watched over the last 10 plus years the DTG come to vision. Nothing to this day or ever will beat direct screen printing, in both production time, production cost, longevity and quality of print. Dye sublimination transfers are the next best thing to screen printing. The softhand feel and the fact that you dye the garment is superior to any other form of transfer.
> 
> No matter how good your hot peel plastisol transfer it still sits on top of the shirt. DTG techiniquies however getting better over the last few years still are not up to par even with longevity.
> 
> So your best way to produce more than 4 shirts is screen printing. Dye sub is next best but limited to white material.


Unless you are using process ink, the plastisol will be on top the textile regardless of how it got there. The benefit you have with direct printing is that you can lay down a thinner layer of ink but ultimately the durability is a matter of thickness.

Direct screenprinting is more versatile and has the potential to be higher quality (assuming the printer can do quality work, many cannot) but that doesn't mean that transfers are a bad product. Transfers have increased in popularity because they have important advantages such as print on demand. And I don't know how you can say dye sub is next best and then add the caveat "...but limited to white material." Clearly that is a severe limitation.


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

tshirtnoob said:


> I want to see the best of the best. If its still not up to par, then I will have to consider silk screening my shirts instead, which has a lot more overhead for starting up.


While the equipment for screening can cost more up front, I think you'll find that it can be much cheaper in the long run once you start pricing out what your plastisol transfers are going to cost you. It really depends on how long you plan to keep your t-shirt printing business going for and how many shirts you think you can sell that would ultimately determine which would be cheaper for you. 

Truthfully, with the information you've provided it doesn't sound like you're really that interested in the printing side of things as much as you are scraping the profits off your site traffic. Personally, I think you're on the right track, buy why not consider contracting out the printing of the shirts to a local screen shop in your area rather than doing them yourself? At least this would be a good place to start before you start investing a ton of money into equipment. I think you'll find the prices aren't that high if you're ordering enough shirts.


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## tshirtnoob (Nov 16, 2007)

Thats not accurate. If I decide to go into the t-shirt business, I assure you, I will be all in, and will completely master my new craft. Which is why im so interested in seeing what an "excellent" plastisol based shirt looks like. My standards are high. I refuse to produce anything that is not of high quality.

The big difference between plastisol and silk screening, from the business end is, the silk screening process requires me to work in far larger batches and carry an inventory. If I launch a t-shirt shop, it has to have a decent minimum # of t-shirt designs for it to look/be legit, in many colors and t-shirt sizes. Having to silk screen all these combo's up front makes for a 20X initial investment compared to the on demand printing of plastisol. This weighs in on my decision. If I decide silk-screening is the only way to go, then I may delay the t-shirt biz until I quadruple my traffic. If plastisol quality is up to my standards, then I can start immediately with very low starting capital risk.


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

tshirtnoob said:


> Thats not accurate. If I decide to go into the t-shirt business, I assure you, I will be all in, and will completely master my new craft.


Then it sounds like you'd be in it for the long haul. If that's the case then the initial investment in the screen printing equipment is probably going to be the cheapest option for you in the long run and would probably give you the most flexibility and highest quality over anything else. 

Also, you don't have to keep a large inventory of t-shirts on hand. Most t-shirt suppliers have a very fast turn around time so you shouldn't need to order them until you're ready to print. I usually try to buy mine by the case since it's usually cheaper that way, but it's not necessary to do so.


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## midwaste (Apr 8, 2008)

tshirtnoob said:


> Thats not accurate. If I decide to go into the t-shirt business, I assure you, I will be all in, and will completely master my new craft. Which is why im so interested in seeing what an "excellent" plastisol based shirt looks like. My standards are high. I refuse to produce anything that is not of high quality.
> 
> The big difference between plastisol and silk screening, from the business end is, the silk screening process requires me to work in far larger batches and carry an inventory. If I launch a t-shirt shop, it has to have a decent minimum # of t-shirt designs for it to look/be legit, in many colors and t-shirt sizes. Having to silk screen all these combo's up front makes for a 20X initial investment compared to the on demand printing of plastisol. This weighs in on my decision. If I decide silk-screening is the only way to go, then I may delay the t-shirt biz until I quadruple my traffic. If plastisol quality is up to my standards, then I can start immediately with very low starting capital risk.


It sounds like you are definitely going to want to pursue the transfer route. Several designs combined with different sizes, on top of not wanting to have a large inventory of completed shirts = a logistical nightmare. You will end up doing more screen setup than anything else.

If you don't have a heatpress already, PM me and I'll send you a sample of plastisol transfers "professionally" applied from Stahl's, Versatrans and F+M.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Transfers have some advantages over direct printing but direct printing in general is a more versatile process. You didn't answer the question about standards, if you cannot articulate what qualities you seek or your standard for a quality product then I don't see how you can evaluate one method over another. Quality is far more than surviving 50 washes ... registration, design, ingenuity, available substrates, consistency, and how the printer behaves when something goes wrong (because everyone makes mistakes) are all things you should be evaluating. 

I generally discourage becoming a printer unless you are looking for a career and willing to go work for a screenprinter for a year at least and learn correctly. Yes you can learn through classes and videos but you'll make more mistakes and deliver an inferior product while you are learning. There are far too many substandard printers out there as it is. I recommend subbing the work out and focusing on marketing, at least in the beginning.

Either way, it will take you time to learn the skills to do high quality screenprinting. What are you going to do in the mean time?


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

How does that fit into heat pressing? Seems to me that ordering lots of designs in small quantities is going to get to be quite expensive if you ask me.

The term "lots of designs" is pretty relative. Does that mean 5 or 55? If they're your own designs you can create the screens once and just don't reclaim them. I don't quite understand why that's a logistical nightmare since you only have to do it once? Printing more shirts becomes a matter of popping your screens onto the press and popping out a few shirts at a few bucks a piece. Printing with transfers is much more expensive unless you're ordering very high quantities of the same transfer.

I don't quite understand how having a variety of t-shirt sizes has anything to do with what type of printing you do? When you're ready for shirts, you order them and print them regardless of which method you're using. Shirt inventory aside, if you have a screen press and you really want to do transfers you can print your own transfers to stock for printing at a later date. Then you don't have to pay the high prices and setup fees most transfer companies are going to charge - particularly for smaller quantities.


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## tshirtnoob (Nov 16, 2007)

Those are precisely my concerns mw.

And yes, a few high quality, professionally applied transfers are exactly what im looking for. I dont have a press. Sending a pm.






midwaste said:


> It sounds like you are definitely going to want to pursue the transfer route. Several designs combined with different sizes, on top of not wanting to have a large inventory of completed shirts = a logistical nightmare. You will end up doing more screen setup than anything else.
> 
> If you don't have a heatpress already, PM me and I'll send you a sample of plastisol transfers "professionally" applied from Stahl's, Versatrans and F+M.


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## My Little Maui (Jul 27, 2008)

Aloha,
I am dying to know if you got your answers. What were the results? What is the best transfer? We have been trying pretty much everything out there. Do you think a hot peel is better or a hot split? Have you ever tried doing a single print hot split in white ink on a dark colored t-shirt? Have you done your wash tests? Which type of transfer held up the best? Just for the record, we have done lots of tests ourselves already, but we are still searching for the softest and most durable transfer. Thanks for sharing what you have learned. Mahalo.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

most producers of plastisol transfers are going to say they make the transfers with softest hand that is most durable. it is up to you to figure out which you like the most. do you have a heat press? if not the conversation is moot since there is no way for you to apply these transfers in a professional way that will ensure durability.

i my self like using howard sportswear for my transfers (especially for durability and opaqueness). that's not to say they have the softest feel or hand. universal transfers have a softer feel but that is not my biggest concern as i do more jerseys. i do use them for their numbers since they are very durable and are the most competitively priced. it really is based on what you like but maybe more importantly: what your customers like.


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