# Best starter equipment.



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Hello everybody. I am completely new to any kind of printing. Currently I sell T-Shirts but subcontract out the printing portion.

I would like to get into the printing part of the business also. After looking around I see that there is a wide range of equipment along with a wide range of prices.

I find stuff like this:
New 4 Color 2 Station Silk Screen Printing Press with Complete Screening Kit | eBay

I see it's cheap but would it work as a good starter setup since I am a REALLY small company? How many shirts would something like this pump out in an hour?

On the other hand I see something like this:
Start-Up Screen Printing Equipment Packages with the Trooper Press

I understand that this may not even be the best equipment out right now (honestly I don't know) but even if it is close, it is out of budget. Would take me quite a while to afford this setup. How many shirts per hour could this pump out?


Is it worth buying equipment in stages, upgrading as I go, or just waiting until the funds are available and buy the best?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## utero (Jun 9, 2007)

Really depends on what you're printing and your skill level. With manual screen printing don't expect to be knocking prints out at express speed right outta the box. It's an artform and takes time and practice to learn.

So I guess it depends how much you're outsourcing. Do a costing and see what you could save by doing it yourself rather than outsourcing and then find the best possible kit for your budget from someone who can help you with support and guide you through the pitfalls.


----------



## hoxie (Nov 3, 2012)

I have a very similar business model and background to you. I started my business about 4 years ago, using a contract printer with me being the middle man. This allowed me to run a business, make a profit and save to buy equipment down the road.

I began taking screen printing classes at night at the local community college, which really helped see if pulling screens was something that I enjoyed and wanted to do. There is a learning curve, its not as easy as making a screen and pulling a squeegee, so you need to recognize that going in and become educated. It WILL take time to learn, it will be messy. 

Next, you need to look at your business and see what kind of orders you are getting, and if there is profit to be made compared to outsourcing. Also do you want to spend your time making shirts rather than growing the business? Can you do both at the same time? Time spent making shirts means less time selling. If your business is like mine, 75% of your orders are 1 or 2 color, and you can get a set up to do these fairly inexpensively, especially if you check the classified section on this forum often. Decide on a budget that you can afford and stick to it. There are a lot of really great options for doing 1 or 2 color shirts but remember BUY NICE OR BUY TWICE. While it may seem appealing to buy an cheap press off of Ebay you're going to be pulling your hair out struggling with registration issues and not getting good prints. Research and spend your money wisely. Listen to reviews on here and what other printers have said. 

If I was in your position and assuming a limited budget...I would start with this package: Semi-Pro 4 Color Screen Printing Kit| ScreenPrinting.com Powered by Ryonet
Then I would also buy this dryer: Compact, Entry Level Infrared Conveyor Dryers - D-100 - Vastex International

With That set up you can realistically crank out 1-2 color orders but you also have the space to grow into doing orders up to 4 colors. The dryer will allow you to cure them properly and do it faster and cheaper than your contract printer. Get 4-5 orders and the equipment has just paid for itself.


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Thanks for the quick replies.

After checking out the specs on the setup you recommended Hoxie, that would definitely cut cost based on what I pay from the contractor.

Is the flash dryer that comes with the 4 color printer not really worth while? Or would it be fine until budget allows for the Infrared dryer.


----------



## hoxie (Nov 3, 2012)

How many shirts are you doing in a typical order and how many orders per day/week?

A flash dryer would work, but it's much more time consuming to do it that way and you have a lot more quality control issues to worry about making sure the ink is cured properly. For me it's a hassle to have to flash, check the ink, flash some more, check the ink again...it slows down production and wastes time that I could be using to make more shirts/profit. With a conveyor dryer I set the time and heat once, and know every shirt is going to be correctly cured. Print, throw on the dryer. Done. 

If money is an issue, the flash will work for now until you can upgrade. Just remember your speed (i.e. profit) is dictated by how fast you can do each shirt, and you're only as fast as the weakest link in the chain. Also, if you don't need to do 4 color you could ask Ryonet to substitute out the 4 color press for the one color, and adjust the price accordingly in the package deal. Here's that press: Riley Hopkins JR. Screen Printing Press - 1 Color 1 Station | ScreenPrinting.com Powered by Ryonet
That may help you inch closer to having the funds needed for the dryer...


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Hoxie, awesome information, I greatly appreciate that.

Right now my sales are only focused on 4 designs and I haven't really sold too many shirts as of yet. I just started about 2 months ago and I am working on marketing right now.

Really, I'm planning ahead because I assume that sales are going to start coming in soon and having the ability to print my own shirts on demand will open the doors to custom style printing on a reasonable time frame. At least that's the idea haha.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Trust me when I say if your going to print for others You want multi station and a conveyor if you can afford it. I started out with a 140 3 color job that took days printing flashing then stacking and final cure. I then bought a second flash made a carousel with 4 spots to dry. Then I bought a whole used setup with a 6/4 and 12ft conveyor dryer. Used then press for a few weeks and found a used M&R 6/6 sidewinder. Fast forward 8 years I now can do that same 140 3 color job in a couple of hours. Experiance has helped but I credit most the speed increase to the equiptment. 

Singl color without flash I can run about 180 hr max by myself. Can do about 100 single color with flash. 

The Lawson auto can do 1-6 color jobs at about 250-400 per hour.


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

I had inquired about the semi-pro kit that you mentioned Hoxie. The gentleman mentioned that I would need an inkjet printer for one for the stages (I think it was something to do with the film).

I called around to local stores like Fedex, kinkos and Office Max but they have laser printers. What would be your recommendation for this part? I suppose I could buy one if I had to but the budget is fairly tight for right now.


----------



## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

My business is similar to yours also but i started with sublimation printing and discovered i needed to get into screen printing for dark shirts and also for cotton shirts. 

I went with the Ryonet 6 color 2 station because that was all the room I had in my basement, I would have liked to get a 4 station but space constraints decided it for me..

I went with 6 color figuring I didn't want to get into this just to need to upgrade my press within 6 months and I'm glad I did......my 2nd customer wanted 5 colors shirts so I made the correct decision even though I had to get a friend to help me with my first multi-color job I feel this was worth it for me.

As for the conveyor dryer...."get it" you won't regret it


----------



## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

Rchnation......you need a postscript printer.....Kinko's can do films for you in a pinch by using vellum but a Epson 1430 can be had brand new for $300.....you will need photoshop or CorelDraw........photoshop will print without a RIP program but a Rip ( raster image processor) will make things a lot easier


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Awesome, thanks for the information. At that price I will just one.


----------



## hoxie (Nov 3, 2012)

Look for a used Epson Workforce 1100 or 1400. Then buy a continuous ink supply system from cobra inks and all black pigment inks for good opacity in your transparencies. Dye ink would work too and not clog your print heads if you're not printing regularly. I have an Epson 1100 That I've barely used and could sell. PM me if you're interested. 

You're also going to need an art program to be able to do color separations and edit artwork. Corel draw or adobe illustrator are the two main ones and those aren't free. You may be able to use Gimp but I've never tried it. There will be a learning curve as well. Might be better off finding someone to do this for you and then send you the print ready files..


----------



## Arns (Aug 14, 2015)

These days you can buy used Photoshop 7 and Illustrator 8 together for around 80$ if you have lucky in auctions could be even cheaper, especially if you have small budget.


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

I actually do have Illustrator and photoshop installed on my computer from previous business ventures lol.


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Have you guys ever had any experience with these products?

ASC365


----------



## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

RichNation said:


> The gentleman mentioned that I would need an inkjet printer for one for the stages (I think it was something to do with the film).


You can save $150 (vs the Epson 1400) and get the Epson 7610 and you pick up an 11 x 17 scanner free.


----------



## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

RichNation said:


> Have you guys ever had any experience with these products?
> 
> ASC365


Going with a low end Riley Hopkins from Rayonet is frugal. But that's pushing your luck.

In the words of Zig Ziglar, "When you spend too much on something you waste some money. When you spend too little, you waste it all!"


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

RichNation said:


> Have you guys ever had any experience with these products?
> 
> ASC365


You will be sorry if you purchase that stuff. just use the search box at the top and type ASC365. you get what you pay for and if your on a budget look for a quality name brand used press. in decent condition I have never paid more then 50% new price.

FYI you want Dye inks for films. The pigment works and just as well but the pigment will never be as dark as dye. If the previous poster has the WF1100 natively its a pigment printer but if you have the all black system from Cobra Inks it is very likely they have dye ink. Unless user specified the standard all black Cobra kit for all Epson printers are filled with dye ink.


----------



## hoxie (Nov 3, 2012)

The WF1100 I have has only ever ran dye ink through it.


----------



## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

You've gotten some decent advice above^. Now take the time to learn more about the process and equipment and pros and cons of various choices between features/quality and price. If you have any DIY abilities, you have some options for getting both high quality and low costs.

Here is the defining irony of all things like this: The less hands-on experience and practical knowledge you have of a process, the more likely you are to fall prey to the faults and limitations of inexpensive equipment and give up before you learn what you are doing. Of course, that is exactly who buys most inexpensive/hobby equipment 

A seasoned pro, on the other hand, could print works of art with an old window screen and broken windshield wiper (or so I have been told ), but would probably own pro level gear.


----------



## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

O


hoxie said:


> Look for a used Epson Workforce 1100 or 1400. Then buy a continuous ink supply system from cobra inks and all black pigment inks for good opacity in your transparencies. Dye ink would work too and not clog your print heads if you're not printing regularly. I have an Epson 1100 That I've barely used and could sell. PM me if you're interested.






hoxie said:


> The WF1100 I have has only ever ran dye ink through it.



Was a little confussed then by your post. The factory cartridges for the 1100 are pigment. 

To the OP
The 1100 has been out of production 2-3 years now. The 1400 has also been out of production 1-2 years. That wouldn't stop me from buying one for the right price depending on usage. 

You want to look for a 1430 which replaced the 1400. The replacement for the 1100 I think is the 7510. Another option is the 7610 or the 7620. I have the 7620 as my office printer and is my backup to the 1430. I had a 1400 7-8 years with a CISS had to reset the waste ink pad(always add a waste ink tank) several times. Bought the 7620 as it was my only local option for 13x19 my printer died in the middle of a job. Bought a refurb 1430 from Epson $199 free shipping and the ship out on Indy so it's next day for me if ordered before 2 or so. 

I have tried every ink for screen printing films available in bulk that I know of. Cobra, Blackmaxx, Film direct online, Ink2Image, inkjetcarts, a few others. Out of the ones listed here the are ink order of darkness and not clogging the 1430 head which for some reason can be very finicky on which ink it passes. Any of the inks that clogged my 1430 pass though my 7620 or Artsian 800 without issue. I gave 1 bottle of inkjetcarts to another printer and it runs in his without issue so it more of a printer specific issue. My guess is that the coated parts in the head some have a little extra coating. 

Film Direct Online. This is my second try with them. First Qt/liter wasn't as dark. That was awhile ago. Recently one of the inks that was passing had issues. I bought from these guys and to date this is the darkest results to date. I haven had film tested.

Ink2Image. Good dark ink ran fairly well though 1430 but every now and then had a issue. Runs flawlessly though any other printer I've tried as with all inks that had problem in my 1430. 

Blackmaxx. Good dark ink, I never ran this though 1430 just my 1400. Ran probaly 2 gallons of the stuff though it. Bulk bottles are a bargin but the cartridges seem high. 

Cobra. Good ink. Dark but when looking a solid print it had a diffrent tone to it. 

Inkjetcarts. Hybryd ink. Good ink but it never would print out of the 1430 more then half a page. They sent me a qt of their pure dye and it works but has that same tone as Cobra. Btw the hybryd prints out of the 7620 and I haven't tried it in any other printer. 

The OEM inks with color print the lightest but they work very well. I'd say that they would be right there with #2 in final results. Just get takin to the bank if your printing properly using all the colors to make the black films. Or even just black. I don't thick I could get 20 films per cart if they had a lot of coverage.


----------



## hoxie (Nov 3, 2012)

I never used the OEM carts. I put refillable ones in and used dye ink in them from the first time I ran it.


----------



## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

although those products are tempting because of the price they don't have micro registration so they have a little bit larger learning curve and I have no idea whatsoever about the quality of the equipment


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Thank you everybody. You have given me some excellent information to work with. I am very glad that I joined this group!


----------



## RichNation (Aug 8, 2015)

Aright, I pulled the trigger yesterday and ordered this. 

Semi-Pro 4 Color Screen Printing Kit| ScreenPrinting.com Powered by Ryonet

I am also looking for an Epson 1430 if anyone has one in good condition looking to sell. Right now I do not have enough comments to post in the classifieds section.


----------

