# 100% Poly vs. 65% Poly / 35% Cotton



## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

Can I get your opinion on sublimation on 100% Poly vs. 65/35 Poly/Cottom mix?

I know that 100% Poly is the best for sublimation, but I have found some really nice clothing blanks that are in 65/35 Poly/Cotton mix. Have you seen much of a difference when sublimating either one of those?

I want to avoid the vintage washed out look, so I don't think I should go any lower than the 65% Poly mix.

I'm sorry if this has been repeated over and over, but I did do some searching on the forums and really couldn't find a definitive answer.

Thanks in advance!


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## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

Any opinions or experience with this fabric blend?


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## feckman (Jun 30, 2007)

Would love to give 65/35 a try, but we haven't been able to find any blanks. Someone else mentioned using Russell 65/35 poly/cotton shirts in a different thread, but he was in the UK and I haven't been able to find a source for them in the US.

What brand and source are you getting them from?


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## hextex (Jul 20, 2008)

Tultex 241


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## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

The Laughing Giraffe / Kids Blanks has the 65% Poly


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Just remember anything less than 100% poly the non-poly percent will wash out and not be as bright.


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## carpediemandmore (Feb 4, 2013)

Totally agree Steve, have tried it several times, any percentage below 80% Poly & 20% Cotton does not produce sharp results.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

It will cost you $2-4 Dollars to find out if you like it.
It really does not matter what other think anyway cause no one listens.Try it.


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## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks all. I appreciate the responses.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Dee did you try it? results?


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## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

Will it just look bad, or can it be used for a retro/faded look?


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## deehoney (Dec 16, 2010)

skdave said:


> Dee did you try it? results?


No, not yet. I'm getting the shirts in to test them out.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Steve, This is going to disagree with not being able to sublimate onto 100% cotton.
I have developed and patented a process to sublimate with your ink jet printer and laser printer using my white toner and papers for a self weeded transfer onto DARK cotton shirts. The process washes and dries in the drier very well and has lessor cracking as does laser and pigment inks onto dark shirts. Your sublimation printing has now entered a new market.


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## lvprinting (Sep 23, 2014)

sublial said:


> Steve, This is going to disagree with not being able to sublimate onto 100% cotton.
> I have developed and patented a process to sublimate with your ink jet printer and laser printer using my white toner and papers for a self weeded transfer onto DARK cotton shirts. The process washes and dries in the drier very well and has lessor cracking as does laser and pigment inks onto dark shirts. Your sublimation printing has now entered a new market.


Hey Al, is your method truly sublimation or is it another type of ink transfer? Does your ink actually turn from solid to gas and permeate like sublimation ink or does the image stay on top of the fibers?

Sent from my SM-G900T using T-Shirt Forums


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Yes it outgases into the fabric and not sitting on the fabric. This is why it is a better product then laser that has resins in the toners as well as pigment inks that both sit on the fabric.
AL La Costa


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Can you send me a sample cloth with this process in full color sub?


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Steve, I would be overwhelmed if I started sending samples.
Some others who are using this new process may show there samples. I just licensed inkjetcarts.us to distribute this process


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

Do you plan on doing any trade shows in the Florida area. I wont buy into a system like this with out samples in hand. Sorry for sounding kind of negative or skeptical but there have been many processes that have claimed to do the same and none do.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

I am not doing any trade shows but my distributors might.
AL
1-908-213-2830


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## puw (Apr 12, 2015)

What about the Chromablast inks? I thought they make it possible to do these kinds of mixes, and output a result just as a 100% Poly fabric?

Sorry I'm getting really confused between posts saying you can and then others saying you can't etc.

Would anyone's answer be different if the OP was using a factory with cut&sew and not pre-made blanks and producing himself?


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

I don,t believe that Chromablast Inks transfer on dark garments and are self weeding.


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## puw (Apr 12, 2015)

sublial said:


> I don,t believe that Chromablast Inks transfer on dark garments and are self weeding.


Sorry, there's a lot of terminology that's new to me. What is "self weeding"?

Also, if I do not have my own equipment and use cut & sew factories for full sublimation (AOP), they only use white fabric to begin. So where does the dark garment enter into the equation? Is this if you're producing yourself ready made garments that you order in dark colours?

Sorry, maybe we are coming at this from different angles lol.


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## puw (Apr 12, 2015)

carpediemandmore said:


> Totally agree Steve, have tried it several times, any percentage below 80% Poly & 20% Cotton does not produce sharp results.


To understand this better, what process are you using as in type of printer, heat press, inks, fabric brand etc. Do you produce yourself or use a cut and sew factory etc?

What if your design wanted or had a "fuzzy" look to it? Is the problem still that the cotton parts would slowly wash out and fade?

I'm really interested in knowing the details in this area to help me understand, but since everyone is using different inks or printers or pre-made shirts or cut&sew as well as fabric brands which varies the quality etc, there must be different results from all these variations. It would really help if you can let us know your specs to compare others results (without giving any secrets away of course) please.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Self weeding is when you print onto a coated transfer paper only the design will remove when you transfer it to the material such as on cotton or 50/50.
Apparently you are working with sublimation ink large format prints to make all over prints and then sew them into a shirt or other items.

This process is limited for now to size due to the lack of physical size laser printers available currently.

This process has you working with two papers.
One paper lets call it the {B} paper and the other an {A} paper.
The {B} paper has a white coating on it. It is designed to release only where a design is printed onto it when you marry the two papers together thus removing the white coating under that designed area.

this paper is designed for a laser toner to remove the white coating from the {B} paper.

My process prints sublimation ink onto the {B} paper and then prints the same design onto the {A} paper with a laser printer using my white toner in a mirror image.

Now you take the two papers with the same design on them and place them together over a light table to align the two designs together. then you take two small pieces of tape to secure the two papers together before you press them together, You press these two papers together at 245 F with heavy pressure for 20 seconds and then peel them apart while hot. You now have the sublimation image removed from the {B} paper onto the {A} paper. 
The {A} paper is also a self weeding paper and when you press that paper onto a ready made black or colored cotton shirt only the design will remove from the paper when after it has cooled down from the pressing at 375 f for 30 seconds.

This process has a softer hand and reduced cracking due to using sublimation ink dyes instead of plain color resins and pigments from toners and inks.
The paper {B} has the wash fastness to secure the sublimation inks in the fibers instead of laying onto the shirt. 
I hope this helps you to better.

AL La Costa
1-908-213-2830
[email protected]


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

PUW, 

It might help if you know the dye sublimation process and this should explain why it will only work on polyester.

Sublimation ink is not an ink it is actually a dye.

Why only polyester?

As you heat the polyester and dye in the heat press the fibers of the polyester open up and the dye becomes a gas. As the item cools after the process the fibers of the polyester incapsulates the dye and at that point they become one.

The cooling process starts the second you open the heat press, as the item cools it is still vulnerable for messing up. If you touch it or stack them before they are cooled the image can be damaged. This is for hardgoods, fabrics of course cool faster but while they are still hot there can be shadowing.

That's why it will only work on polyester and any blends will wash out. Because it is a special made dye for this process and not an ink.

And you can't dye a dark color only light colors, because it dyes the fibers and doesn't sit on top of the material.

Sorry for being so long and maybe you already knew this but in case you didn't know.

Steve


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Steve, That was a very good explanation of the sublimation dye process.
Now he is wondering why I can make this work on DARK cotton or leather.

The paper has a poly binder coating in it to marry the dyes to it and also the binding into the cotton.

This process is a patented process issued last May 27th, 2014 us #8,735,320 B2 to Alfred W. La Costa


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## ModernTreasures (Jul 9, 2014)

So your process is a 2 step process that happens at 1 time?

When you press it, it transfers the dye to the poly fibers of the paper and then transfers those poly fibers to the material?

Sorry, just trying to get my head wrapped around your process. I have been sublimating for about 10 years now.

Steve


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

Steve, I can tell you been sublimating for a while just hearing you describe the migration problems with sublimating. that only comes from experience and usually costly ones.

Yes this process is a two step process but don,t forget the fact that only laser toner will remove the design on the {B} paper and that is where my white toner plays a role plus it helps with the binding as well because it is on top of the color print when transferred.
This also makes a great looking transfer onto dark leather. This also goes into the leather and not laying on it which causes cracking.
AL


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## puw (Apr 12, 2015)

Hi Both.

@ Al, having no experience with white toner, I think I get your process. There's something special about the white toner & the paper it's on to make your process work, hence you need to 'sink' the sublimation dye/ink into it (or maybe it's lying on top to be the first ink/dye to go into the substrate and the toner is the sealant kind of thing) , so that in the final process of the toner paper onto your substrate, not only do you get excellent detail from the dye print, but you get everything going "in" the substrate as opposed to it lying on top because of the laser print paper - I'm I in the right ball park?

I really like that you mentioned leather as one of the substrates you apply this too, as most leather jackets you see with Harley type stuff on, it's cracking real easy. It sounds like you have a winner if this stays fresh longer.

@ Steve - thanks for the info, yes I understand the basic chemical process that for general sublimation and the ink/dye, due to the specialised paper printed on and then heat pressed to the fabric, it's the high temp turning the ink/dye into a gas while at the same time opening up the poly pores for the dye/gas to get into, that when cooled the pores close meaning the colour etc is locked in. This makes the colours bright and the artwork pinpoint accurate (especially if it is a vector).

What I am starting to learn through the forum and chasing down various comments to see what something like Chromoblast & Multink is all about, is that there are options besides 100% poly. But I'm also seeing as above how people are trying the options and finding they're not as good a finish or parts fade etc etc, but with the amount of variations in setups from the printer to the dye/inks to the paper, the heat set, the time pressed, the fabric blend and brand and whether it was a 120gsm or a 180 fleece etc, without that info in peoples replies to questions like the OP's, we can't be sure it won't work, it just hasn't happened for some in the way they have tried to make it work.

It's like trying to sell garments without a marketing campaign to see where sales are coming from (or not), which designs work better, what age group is buying, male or female etc. We need the specs of all the trials to put them together so the data can be looked at to see where there may possibly be a way, even though science tells us that unless 100% poly, it's never going to work 100%. But then Al's found a way against science and using science to come up with a method that achieves success in an area I bet folks used to say - unless you use 100% poly it'll never work 100%.

In my case of using factories for cut and sew, I am up against people that only want (or so it appears) to be the most time efficient and cost effective process, which translates to we only do vector work and we only use this method so you're limited to these fabrics. I'd like instead to be able to "confidently" say that if they used this dye and adjust the heat to this temp using that fabric, you will widen your market without any loss in time or cost. I can't do that yet though making my time spent trying to figure out how to get my raster stuff into vector without it looking like a vector to live within their constraints. I'd like to be able to offer customers options, obviously informing them in simple terms what each option means in quality of image, washability, etc.

Thanks for both your time in replying. I'm still in the 'dark' a bit about the term weeding though lol - keep thinking of all the weeds in the garden.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

It sounds like you are a designer in the apparel industry.
I use to make digital transfers and press them for the apparel industry and we were successful because of the amount of designs a sales team could sample the market for sales prior to producing a lot of losers. 
this is off topic but i know where you are coming from and enjoyed your interest.
AL
1-908-213-2830


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## puw (Apr 12, 2015)

It's more than that Al, it's having been in a lot of situations and finding solutions that others can't see and understanding how our perceptions limit us and also make us think everyone knows what we're talking about lol. Take a gamers forum (I'm not a gamer) where they always include in their sig their rig setup, so when they offer help you can see where they are coming from based on the cpu, mb, ram, graphix card etc.

I've got time served in the apparel biz and a sportswear sub factory, but I know my knowledge is really limited because I haven't spent years in them and often the work I did wasn't as hands on with fabrics or printing etc as I'd have liked, so I take the attitude of being a complete beginner here. And I'm not having a go at anyone, but the variations available coupled with the variety of experience of currently active members should be a goldmine of help and info. And yet invariably even using all my experience, I always feel I'm missing key points or my quest doesn't fall into any of the variations. Take for example my being a novice in Photoshop and yet my designs will use stock images of 300dpi++. I'm prepared to learn PS to get the finished artwork effect I want. But there's little help when using PS for fabric & sublimation and then I have to work out how to get the artwork into a vector file so a factory will accept the file, which when they open it may reject it or the finished garment using their process will make it look terrible because their limitation is using vectors only - for example.

I know it can be done without making great artwork look like a vector, somehow. Once I find the way I still have to then find an accommodating factory who can get great quality out. That factory is probably one akin to those using your system because they are prepared to push the boundaries and not stick with only vectors and only 100% poly. Sorry, I'm venting a bit as I feel like I'm going round in circles and getting nowhere lol.

Thx m8.


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## sublial (Mar 24, 2011)

You are right on.
AL


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