# rhinestones will not stick



## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Ok so I will first say I am new so still learning the ropes here.

I bought Premium Pellosa rhinestones size 10ss and I have been practicing with several different mediums, heat temps and times. At first I was just trying to rhinestone directly on top of tackle twill and I could pick the stones off so I assumed they couldn't be heat pressed onto the twill because it is polyester or something. Then I grabbed an old t-shirt and I have experimented with several temps/times and I can still pick off the stones fairly easily.

This is just a single layer of 100% cotton t-shirt using my new Vesta auto open, Teflon sheet over the top and under and I have done:

5 sec pre-press fabric 325 for 15/sec, peel, press 5 more secs
5 sec pre-press fabric 325 for 15/sec, flip, press 10/sec
5 sec pre-press fabric 330 for 20/sec, flip press 10/sec
5 sec pre-press fabric 350 for 20/sec, flip, press 5/sec
5 sec pre-press fabric 385 for 20/sec, flip, press 7/sec

If I pick at the stones, 50% of them will just peel off. Some of them are on pretty good. I am not sure what to do, the results seem to be the same for all the temps? Could it be the stones? Could it be my press? Any suggestions? 

Thank you


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## ShaggyDog (May 28, 2012)

Have you checked that your press is actually getting hot? You say its a new press, but it may not be heating up they way you think. If you don't have an inferred heat gun to check, you can pick one up at any hardware or home center.

I use these stones, 315-320 20 seconds, I never have a problem.


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

Those are premium stones.I have used them and had no problem.I do 300 prepress for 5 seconds.then I press stones...no Teflon for 20 seconds.Mabey you need to tighten up press pressure a bit.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

The press seems hot, I am going to get the infrared gun to check the heat and report back. It's so frustrating


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Used the inferred temperature gun and it registers within 5 degrees of the heat press setting and I did check various areas on the plate. Now I am really confused and I was kind of hoping my heat press wasn't heating properly. I can't believe my stones wouldn't set at all those different settings I tried. Any ideas now? I mean when I test the garment after, I don't think I should be able to pick the rhinestones off with my nail should I? I went to some garments that were stoned for me in the past and I cannot pick those stones off.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Are you using enough pressure on the press?


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

Pressure might be an issue. Another stupid question is are you letting the glue cool down before you try to remove the stones or are you picking at them immediately?


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I am going to adjust the pressure down some more and try again today. 

I am letting it cool down prior to my "picking" lol. I actually picked some off today that I didn't touch at all. Hopefully, its the pressure so I'll give it another shot and see.

Thank you all, I'll report back later


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## lben (Jun 3, 2008)

One other thing, are you keeping the press closed too long? You want the glue to melt but not fall off the stone. I tried putting some on by hand with a hand wand and if I took too long the glue would melt off the stone and it wouldn't stick. It's either the heat or the pressure or the dwell time. Or some of those stones might not have enough glue on them.


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## Elvessa (Mar 4, 2013)

Anything over 325 is too hot for these stones with just Teflon. I do 320 for 20 peel hot (peel cool if you want to be sure) then another 12. I would have to agree it may be your pressure. I use a medium plus pressure, which is 7 or 8 on my press. If you use a silicon sheet you need to go up to 360.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Ok I have tightened the pressure and tried 350 and 325 for 20 secs, flip for 8 more seconds and cool peels and still I can pick off the stones with my nail. Please tell me this isn't normal? I tightened the pressure 3 different levels/tests to the point where I can't go tighter or I won't be strong enough to close it. I have used tackle twill, 100% cotton t-shirt, and grosgrain ribbon in my testing. All same results, same Pellosa Premium stones size 10ss.


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## Elvessa (Mar 4, 2013)

Try going cooler, maybe 310. Whenever I have had problems it's due to being too hot. I use nothing but these stones and never had an issue. You could even try 300 and see how that goes. Also if you can barely close the press that's too much pressure, loosen up a bit. 


Laurie Schiff
Www.fatpetawards.com


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## ShaggyDog (May 28, 2012)

You may be melting the glue right of these stones. I almost never flip and I agree, your ores iS probably too hot.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Is there any glue on them?


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

There is glue, some of them stick, and I can see glue on the fabric under them. I adjusted the pressure, tested again at 310 and 300 for 20 secs and I think the lower temp is better but I have to admit I can still pick them off.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

Do you have the machine set to Fahrenheit and not Celsius? Does it leave the glue residue on the fabric? Whose stones are they ? Can you pick the glue off of the stones before you press them? Maybe a bad batch perhaps.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

machine is set to Fahrenheit

I can see glue residue when I peel them off and the back of the rhinestones still have grey on them.

stones are Pellosa Premium from ShineArt.

I cannot pick the glue off but I can lift it slightly if I pick at it with the sharp point of my tweezers.


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

I use the same rhinestones from Shine Art and cover with teflon sheet press 325 degrees for 12 sec med to firm pressure. Hot peel, recover with teflon sheet and press additional 5 sec. I never turn my garment inside out and press the backside. This might be where you are burning off the glue especially if you are pressing longer with the first press.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

I press mine for about 20-25 seconds, covered ,uncovered same good results.


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## shayne0307 (May 18, 2011)

There are quit a bit of recommendations here, all of which should work. The only other thing I can think of is maybe the type of transfer tape you are using. One you can peal hot, the other must be cool or you will pull the stones off with the paper. Another suggestion is to use a roller of some sort, like a rolling pain brush tube thing.....and role over your design then let cool, then peal......especially if you are using the silicone transfer paper......good luck, I do hope it works out for you.


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

call the stone manufacturer and explain what you have done... get the answer direct... also buy some other stones and see if they have different results doing the same thing.

David

Best Embroidery and Bling


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Yes, I have contacted ShineArt and I will be taking my stones and samples back to them this week for testing. In the meantime, I have ordered diff stones from a diff supplier to test. Thank you for all the helpful suggestions and I will update later


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

I've used ShineArt for several years and have never had any bad stones from them and I go through a lot of stones weekly. Not saying you didn't get a bad run, I'm sure it happens now and then with any supplier.


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

just glad to hear they are willing to look at it and not pushing it somewhere else yet. Please let us know how all comes out.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Just updating that I went to ShineArt today and brought my samples and stones for them to test. They felt on my samples where they were coming off that they glue just wasn't melted enough. That was even on my samples where the temp was up to 340. They did test them on their own cotton t-shirt at their recommended temp of 330 for 18 seconds NO second press and honestly the results were pretty much the same in my opinion. You are able to pick some stones off if you get your nail under them. To ShineArt, this isn't an issue and they didn't feel there was anything wrong with the stones. Now some of my samples were done on tackle twill and that might be an issue but taking that out of the equation, it still doesn't explain the cotton shirt samples. Maybe my expectations are too high? I just don't think they should be able to pick off. I have other clothing items that were done by my studios previous rhinestone company that I have had for 4 plus years and haven't lost a stone. I have used my same "pick test" on these items and I still cannot pick any off. I just want stronger stones I guess because I am using them on athletic uniforms and they need to stick! 

So, I am still confused and still awaiting my other stones to test them. Hopefully those results are better but you can't beat the price of those Premium Pellosa stones. They have a great shine for sure.


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## Elvessa (Mar 4, 2013)

I've just done a beta test on luggage that I did with these stones by sending it back and forth to Europe and not one stone came off. I can't imagine how you can pick these off. 


Laurie Schiff
Www.fatpetawards.com


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I did purchase some more of the same stones from them today and I will be testing those stones this weekend along with another brand of stones. I didn't even think about it at the time but I should have had them test some of these stones from one of their own bags to see if there was a possibility I received a bad batch.


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

your next step would to be to send some of the stones to someone else and let them put it on a shirt and see what results you get. We got a bag of bad SS16's here recently and the manufacturer replaced them, but that was all. Other than that one bag we go thru millions and do not have issues.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

That is a great idea, I know someone here locally that I will have test them. Thank you


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

anytime let us know how it works out


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## rena PEAK (Oct 22, 2011)

Any updates? Usually, I set temp 340, Press 3KG. Time: 18s, which goes well.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I still have not received my other stones to test, hopefully they arrive today. I am really convinced I received a bad batch because I have been using them again on cheer bows and most of the stones are sticking really well and there are some that pretty much fall off so it doesn't make sense. 

I am using 315 temp, for 20 secs and that has been working the best for me. I have more coming off if I go higher temp so I am assuming the glue is melting off too fast at the higher temp. I am really irritated that ShineArt didn't test their own stone supply while I was there. I did buy more stones from them in diff colors/sizes so I am going to try those in the next couple of days.

ShineArt recommends 330 temp for 18 secs, no second press.


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

you could check the pressure your press is at as you may be squeezing all the glue out the sides and leaving very minimal between the stone and garment... just a thought


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

for the stones that fall off, you can see the glue where the stone should be so I am not sure why the glue isn't sticking to the stone itself?

I have adjusted the pressure several times too


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

we press at 356 for 12 seconds and peel cool and then 5 sec with little pressure and have no stones coming off and if we have a stone wrong you have to try and pry it off with teeth and chance a hole in material that the stone is stuck too.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

David, are you using the Pellosa Premium stones? If not, what stones are you using? I need stones that you need teeth to pry off!


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## Elvessa (Mar 4, 2013)

Just as a lark, I tried to pry off a pellosa premium stone yesterday, and could not even come close to getting it off. If yours like to pm me your address I'll mail you a few that I know are good to test.


Laurie Schiff
Www.fatpetawards.com


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

TY Laurie, PM sent


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## best26102 (Sep 29, 2013)

pm me and I will send you these
David


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## awojton2014 (Oct 28, 2013)

I am having the EXACT same issue. Having been using rhinestones for years. Got this batch of Premiun Pellosa Stones and I am having the exact same issue. I put them on a few sweatshirts and they fell off! I use the Korean from Shineart all the time and NEVER had an issue. These come off with my finger as well!


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## awojton2014 (Oct 28, 2013)

I should add that only the AB Clear pellosa stones are giving me issues. I have never had this issue...


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I am going to test some different brands, hopefully tomorrow. I was able to go and test my stones on another press (Hotronix) along side with the same brand stones of her supply and I had the same results on the fabrics I am trying to use which is grosgrain ribbon, and a lycra cotton fabric that we have had stones pressed on with success in the past. We did test the stones on regular t-shirt there and they seemed to stick ok but honestly, I can pick them off if I try.

All I can do now is test these other stones and I will update again. I was hoping to get to it sooner but I have been under a deadline on another sewing order.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I just completed 3 hours of testing different stone suppliers with these Pellosa stones using grosgrain ribbon, a cotton lycra, tackle twill and regular ole t-shirt. EVERY single sample regardless of temp/time/pressure, the Pellosa can be picked off. All the other stones ARE STUCK ON LIKE THEY SHOULD BE. I tested other m/c stones down to plain ole Korean and they all passed my pick test.

I am convinced its the Pellosa stones for sure. Maybe my pick test is harder then others use and never noticed or had issues. Perhaps the Pellosa last just ok. I need my stones to hold up to athletic performance wear so they have to be great not just ok.

Was it a bad batch? Not likely since I was given stones to test from someone elses stash and they had same results. All I can do is call this a true learning experience and hope ShineArt takes back all these stones I purchased 

The shine on these stones is great for the price but it wasn't worth the savings at all.

Sassy


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## awojton2014 (Oct 28, 2013)

I am glad I am not the only one with this issue. I talked to shineart today and they said they
Never heard this issue before. They are returning my recent purchase only. I will continue to buy the Korean stones but not the pellosa. Good luck


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

I think it has to be the material you are sticking them to. I have used ShineArt for years and have never had a problem. Have never had a customer complain about losing stones and I do a lot of performance wear.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Other stones stick to the material so it should be ok IMO. Also my tests were also done on regular t-shirt material, same results. Of course its possible there could have been a batch issue but like I mentioned, I was also given the same stones to test from someone else and same results even on the t-shirt, even on her heat press. 

I did rhinestone a t-shirt this weekend with the stones and ran it in the wash with each load of my laundry (4) and through the dryer and the stones stuck to the shirt but when I took that shirt at the end of the test, I could pry the stones off with my nail, and a lot do peel off. What I am saying is that maybe my pick test is just a higher standard then what others use. I wish I had the answer to this. I too was convinced it was my fabric until my other testing.

I wish they worked for me, I LOVE the shine of those stones and nothing beats the cost.


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## awojton2014 (Oct 28, 2013)

I am using the ab stones on a gildan sweatshirt. Should stick! I live Korean stones from shineart and have used the red and sapphire pellosa stones and did not have any issues. For me. It's just the ab crystal clear.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I wonder too for me if its just the clear stones? I bought several colors but I am afraid to open them and test if they won't take them back. I have emailed them but have not heard anything yet. I will call also.


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

I used to use Pellosa stones for everything. I started doing some things in Korean and now use them the most. They have plenty of sparkle and shine.. not one complaint about them.. and they stick great. I can't pull them off once they are cooled down. I still use Pellosa if a customer asks for them, but not many do any more. I would try the Korean, I think you will be pleased with them. You may be able to get ShineArt to trade with you..


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

Oh I see, so your stones from ShineArt are their regular Korean? I did get some ss6 korean stones from them but like I said I am afraid to open them. I would be willing to trade with them after testing. I did try some other Korean stones and side by side, I thought they were a pretty good stone. They seemed to shine well. I didn't even think about looking at both stones side by side while I was at their store, I should have.

Do you know if ShineArt gets Pellosa and Korean from same manufacturer?


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## PlumCrazyGlitz (Jul 26, 2010)

I still use some Pellosa, but have slowly over the past year been using more and more korean. They are a good grade of stones.. It will be very hard to tell the difference between them and Pellosa. I would try the 6ss you got, you will then see how well they stick. I don't know who they buy from and if they are from the same place..


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

I use stones from shineart also, have you asked them if they read this forum? (it might get some better results) And you are saying these are only AB Pellosa, correct? 
I have only used regular clear and never had a problem with them.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

My stones are the clear ss10 Pellosa Premium. I emailed them today, no response yet but I will try to call them tomorrow. When I told them my issue, they also told me they have never heard of this problem but I have since found others with same issue with their stones. Again, we might be more "picky" when it comes to our pick tests because the t-shirt I ran a full test on this weekend lasted through 4 washings and dryings fine - however, I could pick those stones off if I tried and that's where I have the issue. I am not sure if everyone using these stones is really testing like I am. I would probably use them for a regular t-shirt for family etc. if ShineArt gives me a hard time about returning them but I will not sell them on anything. Definitely will not use them on performance wear.


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## Sassysport (Aug 28, 2013)

I need to also add that I have not tried their regular Korean stones so I am not sure if they have the same issue or not but I am going to test them as I would be willing to exchange my premium stones for the regular stones if the shine is ok and they stick.


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## mfatty500 (Jan 18, 2010)

I have used the Korean for years and have no implicatons.


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## awojton2014 (Oct 28, 2013)

Yes. The Korean rhinestones are GREAT! Not one issue with them


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## ShaggyDog (May 28, 2012)

I have been using the pellosa exclusively for 2years. Aside form a color change issue with the light Siam stones, I have had no problem. I am hoping you have a bad batch and they have pulled them even if they don't acknowledge the problem.


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

I have the opposite problem. Tried to remove a Pellosa stone from tee yesterday... heated it up several times and tried to remove to replace with a different color... Could NOT pry it off. The most I have been able to do is reheat with a wand and slide one a tiny bit.
I have been using Pellosa since they arrived... and slowly using up the 'Koreans' until they are gone. Only 'Koreans' I will use later are the colors not available in Pellosa. When I have Pellosa and 'Koreans' side by side on transfers... the difference in the shine and quality/shape of stone is very noticeable. Much prefer the higher Q/C on the Pellosa. Fewer, if any, broken stones and no missing glue and no glue dots that flake off.
With regular 'Koreans' from other places... it is not good when you flip over the transfer and see how many missing glue dots there are..and have to replace.
LEO


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

If you live in the LA area you may want to try and purchase some rhinestones from Nova Rhinestone Depot. I believe the have a store front as well as a website. Before I found Shine Art I use to purchase from them all of the time.


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## piabows27 (Dec 16, 2011)

I've had nothing but issues as well when pressing these on spandex/performance fabrics. Its so frustrating. I have yet found a stone with the same quality and priced closely to the premium pellosa stones from shineart.


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## shayne0307 (May 18, 2011)

piabows27 said:


> I've had nothing but issues as well when pressing these on spandex/performance fabrics. Its so frustrating. I have yet found a stone with the same quality and priced closely to the premium pellosa stones from shineart.


Hi Pia, any luck since we spoke? If you are having issues with the pellosa, give the Korean a try. I use them on my sports bras and I haven't had any issues. For certain colours, I prefer the pellosa, but other than that you can rarely tell the difference between the two. Good Luck


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## piabows27 (Dec 16, 2011)

shayne0307 said:


> Hi Pia, any luck since we spoke? If you are having issues with the pellosa, give the Korean a try. I use them on my sports bras and I haven't had any issues. For certain colours, I prefer the pellosa, but other than that you can rarely tell the difference between the two. Good Luck


No luck! The Korean work perfect for never! Never have any issues. I have some clients who prefer the pellosa, so that's why I have been trying to get them to work. I can tell a big difference between the Korean and pellosa.


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## jasmynn (Sep 16, 2011)

Are you using a teflon pillow or something underneath the bra? Also, increase your pressure. 
Which pellosa are you using? The premium or the regular pellosa?
If you are using the regular Pellosa, this may be your problem. They have stopped making those because of issues with the glue.


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## piabows27 (Dec 16, 2011)

jasmynn said:


> Are you using a teflon pillow or something underneath the bra? Also, increase your pressure.
> Which pellosa are you using? The premium or the regular pellosa?
> If you are using the regular Pellosa, this may be your problem. They have stopped making those because of issues with the glue.


I'm actually pressing them on a strip for a cheer bow. It's just spandex adhered to ribbon. I'm using the premium pellosa stones. Pressed at 350 for 12 secs, let cool, removed tape and pressed for another 12 secs with a pressure of 7 (goes up to 9). I've also pressed at 320 for 12 secs twice. Any suggestions of temps, time and pressure to try?


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

Could the Spandex be the problem?

I press the Premium Pellosa:
340*
20 sec on a pillow
medium pressure
turn inside out immediately
repress on pillow for 10 sec.
medium pressure 
(you don't want to squeeze out all the glue)
peel cold

LEO


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## piabows27 (Dec 16, 2011)

LEO said:


> Could the Spandex be the problem?
> 
> I press the Premium Pellosa:
> 340*
> ...


That's what I am wondering. I have talked to some people who say they have no issue pressing into spandex and others say they have ran into the same issues as me, so I am wondering if my "pick test" is just different than what others consider good! I expect to mot be able to pick a stone off with my nail.


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## shayne0307 (May 18, 2011)

Hi Pia, I also do a vigirous pick test as well and I even do a wash test on my bows once completed. Maybe you just got a bad stock? Have you tested different colours to see if there's a difference? I do hope you are able to work it out. I know this must be putting you in a time crunch......


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