# Tajima Neo Plus. Barudan Elite II



## ironscepter (Jun 5, 2011)

I've been postponing my purchase for some time but I've finally cleared up my other burdens and now I'm ready to purchase the machine.

I'm in a verge of buying one out of two machines I mentioned; Tajima Neo Plus and Barudan Elite II pro. I've asked this question in the past but the decisions were pretty much split in half so I decided to wait to hear from new folks.

I'd like to ask folks who actually owned both particular machines. So it would be fair to compare the most current machines (not from old one to new one) from both manufactures. 

I know a tech who services both machines so the servicing is not the decision making criteria.

I've read threads about people having difficulties with small letterings. If a machine can outperform all the other machines when it comes to small letterings, I suppose there really is no contest that the machine can outperform all the rest in overall stitch quality. 

Personally I'm leaning toward Windows CE based control panel on Tajima. But I heard that Tajima is not as robust as Barudan.
Barudan site does claim that the small lettering is their foremost quality. But I heard that it's quite difficult to do simple tasks on Barudan. Also, the Elite looks somewhat old school compared to the Neo. 

I would consider the stitch quality the most critical factor over others. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the claims. I hope to hear your opinions for those who actually owned both machines.

Thanks


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

I have a Barudan Elite Pro, not the II, but I wouldn't have anything but a Barudan. The quality of the small lettering is what sold me on my machine. And, it is a rugged machine. I think the Barudan keeps its resale value better also.


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## purplecheese (May 22, 2011)

I have the Elite II, and it's an awesome machine. I wouldn't trade it for anything (except a multi head Barudan machine).

The controls are simple but powerful and the servo driven system is very smooth and fast.

Small lettering is great, as long as you setup the machine to do so (proper thread weight and proper needles).

Finally, Barudan is very responsive. My sales guy is fantastic, he responds to emails and phone calls in a very timely manner and tech support has been helpful in the one time I needed them.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

purplecheese said:


> I have the Elite II, and it's an awesome machine. I wouldn't trade it for anything (except a multi head Barudan machine).
> 
> The controls are simple but powerful and the servo driven system is very smooth and fast.
> 
> ...


 
Ditto to all this.


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## ironscepter (Jun 5, 2011)

Thank you lizzie and purple for your feedback.
Interestingly the thread has over 160 vieiwings but not a single comment on Tajima.
However the local Tajima rep told me that Barudan is losing its ground on the market and the tech support that goes along with it.

By the way, I should've mentioned that the resale value of the machine is a least of my concern. I've already incurred sizable loss in my part so I won't sweat it over the quality of fine lettering.

Thanks


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## purplecheese (May 22, 2011)

Of course the Tajima guys will say Barudan is losing ground - he/she is trying to make a sale. What they may not have said is how all the embroidery makers that are Japan/Germany base are losing ground to the Korean and Chinese manufacturers.

When I bought my machine, I had it down to Tajima and Barudan. Tajima wouldn't give me the time of day since I was a startup and Barudan went out of their way to help me. I started in this industry cold - meaning I have worked in plastics for 20 years and couldn't have told you the difference between a Tatami and Satin stitch when i started. I have only needed the Barudan tech support once, and that was for the unlock code for my machine. I'll stick with Barudan.


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## ironscepter (Jun 5, 2011)

It's nice that you've had your good support on your machine. 

I am proud to say that I've never had a single satisfactory support on all the goods I've owned in the past. The only thing that I counted on before buying goods was the money back guarantee. 

Then again, things felt apart soon after the grace periods expired. So I was forced to disassemble just about everything I've owned and I learned valuable skills and know hows along the way. But the best part is that I got to know a trustable tech who not only does Tajima and Barudan but Singer, Brother and my transportation as well. So to me, there really is not much difference between a tech support call and a love call from a car salesman. To each its own, some will have good luck with the supports and some won't. I already have my tech and opted not to sell my soul over it instead.

Anyway, I won't dread over the resale value or the support. I've had my fair share of losing and I'm certain everyone had and or will at some points of their lives.

The only concern is the fine lettering capability and I'm suprised that no one has anything to say about Tajima. I thought this is the industry standard which all others follow. Perhaps they are too busy occupying something else.

Just in case if anyone think of me as one of those new comers in an already saturated market, this machine will be operated by a good'ol father. He won't need mass production of any kind. Superb fine lettering is all he needs.


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## MAYGO13 (Nov 22, 2007)

Cant beleive the guys from Tajima where not interested in helping set up a new starter. They have been the kings at setting guys up for years! The NEO+ must be a good machine. Check out this link.
Next 10's Next Big Thing - Thirty One Gifts - Sneak Preview - YouTube Customers like this dont choose a product without doing alot of research first. By the way good lettering comes down to the software more than the machine and everyone knows DG/ML by Pulse lettering is far superior than anything else out there. Not saying Barudan is anything less than great but I think Tajima have the edge.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

MAYGO13 said:


> By the way good lettering comes down to the software more than the machine and everyone knows DG/ML by Pulse lettering is far superior than anything else out there. Not saying Barudan is anything less than great but I think Tajima have the edge.


 
Software is important but the machine is the key to great small lettering. The embroidery software I use is not Pulse or Wilcom but I can still produce fabulous small lettering with my Barudan.

Barudan sells Wilcom software and it doesn't get any better than Wilcom when it comes to embroidery software.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

purplecheese said:


> When I bought my machine, I had it down to Tajima and Barudan. Tajima wouldn't give me the time of day since I was a startup and Barudan went out of their way to help me. I started in this industry cold - meaning I have worked in plastics for 20 years and couldn't have told you the difference between a Tatami and Satin stitch when i started. I have only needed the Barudan tech support once, and that was for the unlock code for my machine. I'll stick with Barudan.


My experience exactly when I was shopping for my machine. Hirsch sales staff looked through me like I was invisible. Barudan was helpful then and continues to be that way.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Well the OP started off by saying they wanted opinions from people that had owned BOTH of those exact models. How likely is that? I've owned Baraduns, many years ago, and they were very, very good machines. I now own nothing but Tajimas, a number of different models including NeoII's and unless there is a quantum shift in technology I suspect I'll retire or die a Tajima owner. (hopefully the former)

Both brands are very, very good. Both have been around for a long time and I can't see where you'd go wrong with either one to be honest. (I would not say that about many of the machines on the market)

My experience with the local Hirsch folks has been nothing but fantastic. My rep is one of the most helpful people you'd ever meet. He has contributed largely to the survival and success of my business. 

Jane, I rarely disagree with you about anything but I do when it comes to small lettering. With either of these machines, the control of the pantogram, and subsequently the needle placement, is so accurate as to be removed from the equation. Tensioning systems have all gotten fantastic over the years. And any machine that can run at 1000SPM obviously has no problems with timing issues. (remember that means the hook is spinning at 2000RPM and maintaining the hook/eye/scarf timing!) If you have a quality, well maintained machine, regardless the brand, small lettering becomes a factor of design and substrate. I've heard the claims of it being a great machine for small lettering but when asked why, I've never gotten an answer that wasn't also true about the Tajimas?

I think the keys to small lettering come down to the recipe of digitizing (underlay and density to match the substrate), hooping and backing-thread-needle selections. The quality commercial machines like Baradun and Tajima can all produce great small lettering in and of themselves.

I agree with Jane though - Wilcom all the way when it comes to keyboard lettering and digitizing! But Pulse is very good and in the hands of an experienced digitizer I suspect most of the software brands can produce good files. (I go back to the paper tape days and thanks goodness we have progressed ebyond that)

My serious recommendation? If this is your first foray into embroidery then buy a NEW machine from the LOCAL rep you feel will give you the best after sale support. You WILL have questions - lots of them. You WILL get frustrated - often. And for the first time you put your toes in the embroidery waters, support is crucial.

After you've been around a while you will by necessity become very self reliant. You will learn to maintain your machine. And as long as you stick with the better brands like Baradun and Tajima, you will rarely if ever have to do any sort of repair - but if you do you need to be confident that you can either get a tech into your shop or on the phone for help.

And if you do go with a Neo, definately get the Plus, the control panel is amazing. We have it on our bigger machines but our Neo's are Neo II that we bought used (repo's). Both systems have their advantages but I would prefer the LCD display and to be honest, I prefer to have one type of machine just to make it more consistent for employees.

Good luck whichever way you go. You have already found one of the best resources there is for embroidery help... this forum.


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## MAYGO13 (Nov 22, 2007)

Seriously both Tajima and Barudan are good machines. You could probaly make your decision and not be dissapointed just by flipping a coin.
As to software a very different decision. Most softwares have a good lettering system. Pulse has features such as auto kerning (tucking the o under the w so it doesnt look miles away) also things like auto satin border and if you get into digitising working with Vectors (VBE) in Pulse makes your life a whole lot easier. Again not saying Wilcom is bad but I think Pulse has the edge. Software is a very personell choice and steer clear of any system that is demonstrated as in you can do this so easy by the click of a couple of buttons, we all know this is not the case. Get both wilcom and pulse to demo the software with some sew outs and make your decision from what you see. Good luck either way and welcome to the world of embroidery.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

My understanding is the Tirty-One has 600 single head Neo's! Running one off monograms all day long. They are networked with a barcoding system to control productiopn, colors, etc. I would love to drive up there and see their operation. I guess the MLM party selling system is working for them...



MAYGO13 said:


> Cant beleive the guys from Tajima where not interested in helping set up a new starter. They have been the kings at setting guys up for years! The NEO+ must be a good machine. Check out this link.
> Next 10's Next Big Thing - Thirty One Gifts - Sneak Preview - YouTube Customers like this dont choose a product without doing alot of research first. By the way good lettering comes down to the software more than the machine and everyone knows DG/ML by Pulse lettering is far superior than anything else out there. Not saying Barudan is anything less than great but I think Tajima have the edge.


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## MAYGO13 (Nov 22, 2007)

My understanding is more like 1500 Neo+ machines. The networking etc is awsome! Again another Pulse product.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

In the interest of fairness and full disclosure, don't you think your affiliation with Pulse via AJS should be upfront, open and honest?



MAYGO13 said:


> My understanding is more like 1500 Neo+ machines. The networking etc is awsome! Again another Pulse product.


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## MAYGO13 (Nov 22, 2007)

To be fair I have never mentioned any company or affiliation. I used Pulse many years ago at YES (SWF) aswell. This is just my opinion, just like yours!. Like I said go and look and make your decisions on what you see and not what anyone tells you on here.By the way if we are being open I started working in textiles over 18 yrs ago and started with Barudan and have also worked with Melco and SWF before coming to Tajima (ajs). All good companies with good products. Sorry if I have misled anyone or for some reason upset anyone! Anyway back to the original question Barudan or Tajima, Pulse or Wilcom either way your on the right track to starting off on a good standing either way. By the way Liberty whats your history?


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Scott,

My only implication was that a product endorsement from someone who makes their living off of the product's sales or support is "possibly" a tainted endorsement. Anyone that is in any way associated with the manufacturers or suppliers should just be open about that affiliation. That's all. The involvement by the manufacturers and reps is one of the things that makes this board as great as it is.

My "history?"

After a a couple years as an auto mechanic, a 13 year stint in the military and a few years as a service manager in the automotive equipment biz, I became self employed in the decorated sportwear business in 1988 (give or take a year?) I've been a self employed shop owner since. I've owned toyotas, melcos, baraduns and tajimas. Loved a few and hated a few. I've punched tape, thank goodness for only a very brief time. I've digitized with several differnet packages, love wilcom, never used Pulse except at a demo of the product alongside Wilcom back in about 1996 I think, maybe a little later than that.

When I do post on this board it is always in an attempt to be helpful and never in an attempt to make a buck. (Although I have picked up a couple small jobs in PM's along the way)

And I agree... Wilcom vs Pulse, Tajima vs Baradun? Flip a coin. You can make a living with either or all...



MAYGO13 said:


> To be fair I have never mentioned any company or affiliation. I used Pulse many years ago at YES (SWF) aswell. This is just my opinion, just like yours!. Like I said go and look and make your decisions on what you see and not what anyone tells you on here.By the way if we are being open I started working in textiles over 18 yrs ago and started with Barudan and have also worked with Melco and SWF before coming to Tajima (ajs). All good companies with good products. Sorry if I have misled anyone or for some reason upset anyone! Anyway back to the original question Barudan or Tajima, Pulse or Wilcom either way your on the right track to starting off on a good standing either way. By the way Liberty whats your history?


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## ironscepter (Jun 5, 2011)

I already bought the top of the line Wilcom (level-3). One of the burden a close neighbor helped me to sort out. Not only I've been told countless times but my research has proven again and again that the Wilcom truly encompasses all the features of Pulse and then more. 

It'd be nice to know but I wouldn't care so much about the endorsement or the affiliation of products or companies as I've mastered the fundamental concept on how mechanical things work. Forcing myself how to disassemble and troubleshoot things gave me a third eye. So they won't impede my discernment when it comes to making my final decision. There goes a saying, trees are known by its fruit.

Speaking of the machine, I was given many options by the neighbors who are in the embroidery themselves and they lead me narrow down to no other option. When things go wrong I could only whisper in their ears if I have to.

Indeed, my purchase would be a costly proposition and your feedbacks would help me greatly when it comes to vindicating my recommendations to a good ol'father who'd be eagered to operate one for sometime to come.


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## rob young (Jan 11, 2011)

It took me sevaral emails just to get a price from barudan. Everone else with in hours.I bought a neo plus with pulse software and havent looked back. We are getting buisness just word of mouth because of the stitch quality. Are work looks better than anyone in our area and I know its the machine and software because we never had done any embroidery at all when we started in spring of 2011 I did my homework and went to many shows and was set on barudan or tajima and tajima was easiest to deal with and tajimas online webinars are great along with there training center Just my two cents worth

Rob


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Just to stir the pot a little I will nominate the Expert / Toyota 9100 NET. This is the design that Tajima is selling as the NEO but was designed by Aisin / Toyota. A REALLY great machine!

It is made in the Tajima factory out of Tajima parts.

-James


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## ironscepter (Jun 5, 2011)

I did take a look at Toyota. But I remember reading elsewhere saying that it's a repackaged Neo 2, but not Plus. Tajima rep told me that Neo Plus not only has the Windows CE control panel but has improved panthograph mechanism than the Neo 2.

Sun Star (SWF) was what I had in mind along with Toyota. I heard it's the next big one to come. However, my option has narrowed down to one for now.

After hearing from another fan of Tajima, the good'ol father would love to have one in action on Thanksgiving just to impress all the eyes to see. I'll give you point on that one. He'll be eagered to train on him.


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## BigLousTees (Jan 19, 2010)

BARUDAN is the best. Stitch quality and fine detail surpass Tajima. Have worked with both and when it comes to the fine details and stitch quality its BARUDAN


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## gabenick2 (Nov 23, 2010)

I am also trying to decide which machine to buy, Tajima vs Barudan.

I have been in contact with both reps, I did feel one was more honest than the other. The "honest" rep told me to save my money and not to go with attached laser as it would add wear and tear and would cost more than a flat cutter.

I am down to software as I would like to eventually learn digitizing after I learn the machine. I have heard great things about Wilcom and like the option to add different levels.

The Tajima rep mentioned that Pulse is the software that will "talk" to the machine directly and if I wanted to use Wilcom, I would have to save my design to usb flash and connect to the machine. Tajima owners, how are you sending your designs to your machine if you use wilcom?

Barudan rep stated I would need to purchase the connecting cable for 100.00 and would be able to send my design directly from my computer.

I am also interested in the sequins option, tajima attachment is much more affordable than Barudan. Does anyone have this attachment?


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## purplecheese (May 22, 2011)

I've been using Wilcom for a couple of years now and even upgraded to Level 3 during a promo they had a while back. I really like the software and have come to use it extensively, but still nowhere near it's full potential. I like it, minus the stupid dongle but that's a different argument altogether.

Wilcom software has a built in connection system to use (I guess) RS232 or whatever protocol each machine uses. While I can see it being nice to use the serial cable to transfer files, in my opinion is a non issue. The amount of time to transfer a file via wire and via usb is a wash.


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## tonytw (Nov 20, 2006)

I have a Barudan Elite Pro 15 needle sew all the time, its simple to use, sewing for years, not a dimes worth of trouble, I have wilcom software, and EOS Software, I prefer EOS, they give free training over the net, teach how to do your own digitizing, and the Barudan it loves to sew. Oh yea we so for God... its his work we do. We sew the Words of Eternal Life... Thank the Lord for Our Barudan...


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