# Shredding Thread break question



## maddog (Jun 15, 2009)

Newbie here...
I have a Happy HCD 15 
I am getting thread breaks but not the Clean cut Snip.
But the Shredding type and only on a couple of needles
Could it be the TYPE of thread?
I do have a hodgepodge of thread on the machine etc.
But this is a black and a white one.

So basically what causes the shredding type thread breaks


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## homesteademb (Apr 22, 2008)

Check the needles for anything on it that may be catching the thread, make sure the needles are perfectly straight, and are you doing regular maintenance (cleaning and oiling) this will make the biggest difference in the long run


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Needles, scratches or nicks anywhere in the thread path but common around the hole in the needle plate, Hook timing but probably not if only on one or two needles.

Move the culprit color to another needle and see if the problem goes with it. If so then troubleshoot at the needle plate or below, assuming the thread itself is not the culprit.

Don't rule out a design problem. If there are too many needle penetrations in the same spot it can cause it but you should notice that it is happening in the same pace everytime.

You can also try running a random sample in other colors.


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## maddog (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks it defintly is not the digitizing.
could it be thread tension?
too Lite or too tite??
what is the results of a tension too tite?
and to Light?


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## littlebit (May 21, 2009)

Liberty is right on with the process of elimination, have you replaced the problematic needles? Needles are subject to wear and burrowed surfaces can cause problems. Also check each pressure foot on the problem white and black colors. Any kind of accidental strike or nick can be the culprit. Is the pressure foot centered to the needle and needle plate?
Transfer the tension test called H Test(you can download from happyemb.com in the Service section. Go to support click on Happy Machines scroll down to HCD-1501 Resource Libriary. Privite email me if you need assisitance or a walk through.
Colored thread is too loose if bobbin thread is very thin or non-existent
Colored thread is too tight if on a given color the bobbin thread is wider or full-width


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Forget the tensions! Operators have a tendency to reach for the tensions way too often. If you observe an operator with a lot of experience, they rarely reach for the tensions. Use a bobbin tension guage to set the bobbins consistently then keep the firch from building up under the spring and forget the bobbins. Once the bobbin is set, use an H or FOX test to adjust the top tensions then forget them.

Just a note - forget the old "Drop Test" for setting bobbins. It is just not possible to be consistent using a drop test. Back when machines ran at a couple hundred stitches per mnute it was OK but at the high speeds it is not acceptable. Buy a Towa bobbin guage and use it...

The thing to remember about tensions is that you are really adjusting the balance between the bobbin and top thread. If they get out of balanace what you see is this:

Top thread tight or bobbin loose - results in bobbin thread showing on top<<<this is more common and usually the culprit is firch buildup under the bobbin spring

Top thread loose or bobbin tight - looping, loose stitchs <<<not nearly as common

Most everything else is a result of something other than tensions.

Shredding of the thread is almost always caused by some sort of scratch or burr in the thread path. Needles first, especially since you seem to be having the problem on just a couple of colors.

If you would like to rule out the digitizing, e-mail me the file and I can run it through our pre-production process and look it over. [email protected]


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## maddog (Jun 15, 2009)

Awesome Liberty,
I switch thread places and magically it all disappeared
I mean everything works great in it new places.
I don't get it, but what ever right?

Any ways that was awesome liberty except now you left me with a bunch more questions
I know My bobbin is too tight as it just feels REALLY tight but now my machine is sewing VERY WELL.

You write "Top thread loose or bobbin tight - looping, loose stitches"
So loops or loose top threads means bobbin is tight?...I was having that on the ones that were shredding.

Before this happened I paid a guy to really make sure EVERYTHING was set just right since than I have not and will not touch the Tensions except the Bobbin so I appreciate your words as that is basically what you are saying.
Ecept my bobbin again Feel is too tight but sewing well.
I will buy That Bobbin gauge, where is the best place?

Thanks again everyone!!


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

The hardest thing is getting your needle in straight. On home type machines, they generally use flat shank needles, but on commercial machines, they are rounded shank. And some people don't realize, but there is a front and back to a needle and it has to be in correctly. It can probably vary just a few degrees but after that, the rotary hook will shred the thread as it rotates around the needle.


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## maddog (Jun 15, 2009)

Great again That makes sense
I do know front from back.
But what angle should the EYE be at.
Pointed directly at me (6:00) or more to the Right Side (5:00)
or maybe even 4:00??
I will play with it...I was getting it again with some Metal thread and changed needles the 2nd one worked but I think it was mainly due to the angle....working good NOW!
Thats a great tip thanks


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## homesteademb (Apr 22, 2008)

Eye should be straight at you. Sometimes I have to put a piece of paper behind needle just to check.


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## littlebit (May 21, 2009)

I take another needle and put it through the eye of the needle on the machine so it will stick straight out to get a better/clearer view that it is centered, then tighten.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

I have often wondered why they don't make flat shank needles for commercial machines. It would make it so much easier. Oh, wait, that makes too much sense.


Just from my experience, I have found that it has to be straight, and if it isn't perfectly straight then the hole being a little more to the right is forgiving, but not to the left (and that is as you look at the needle). I use a light or paper behind the eye to see how straight it is. 

I can change a needle in my PR-600 (flat shank) in about 5 - 10 seconds. On my Tajima (round shank), it can take me up to a minute. And sometimes it involves loosening, twisting, tightening over and over to get it right.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

Use the needle you are removing to install the new one as described by littlebit. Also, make sure the needle is seated fully into the machine. It should bottom out. If not, your needle depth settings will be wacky and cause all kinds of issues. Set the needles straight ahead at first. Once you get better at troubleshooting then maybe you can build a little lead into the needles but I don't think it is necessary on a clean and well maintained machine.

Speaking of needles... don't underestimate the importance of a really good needle in modern high speed machines. If you use cheap needles you will spend the savings on aspirin. We use nothing but Gebedur titanium nitride coated needles. The only exception is when we have a long run of caps or bags we will switch to teflon coated Gebalub. Take a magnifying glass or jewelers lope and look at the eye os a cheap needle. They look like the surface of the moon, all full of craters. Then compare to a good polished eye needle and you will be amazed. The really good needles are only 15 cents a piece! Even when we change out an 8 head we're only spending $18 on needles and they last a long long time compared to the cheapos.

Save the cheap ones for the slower home machines...


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