# White ink, black shirt, screen is "sticking" to the shirt...



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

Okay, I'm using white ink (plastisol) on a black t-shirt.. only problem is the screen seems to be "sticking" to the shirt, leaving the design looking like a mountain region, with lots of empty spots. I'm using a 110 mesh.

The print would probably come out almost perfect if it weren't for the screen sticking down to it. The screen is probably about 1/6th of an inch from the platen.

Am I stroking too fast, not fast enough?


----------



## crazymike (Aug 18, 2008)

If the shirt is pulling up you need more adhesive on your platen.
Or if the shirt is still stuck down then your screen isn't tight enough to
pop off the shirt after your squeegee.


----------



## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

If the shirt is staying down you might try increasing your off contact.


----------



## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

I don't think stroke speed is the issue here. You mention the print looking blotchy and having a relief like a mountain range (stucko effect), this is often caused by the ink staying in the screen. As mentioned it could be that there's not enough tension on the screen (are these old screens?).

Using proper off contact is important. When you pull the squeegee you want to see a clean screen in your print area, the mesh should be snapping back off the shirt after the squeegee passes leaving a clean stencil.

Other things to consider, squeegee angle should be ~60degrees and i would suggest using a medium squeegee if you're currently using a soft one, you maybe laying down too much ink with the soft blade.


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

I think the problem was not having enough adhesive, I went ahead an put down a lot more, so much that the shirt is almost difficult to pull over the platen when putting it down.. and that seems to be doing the trick. I'm also putting it under the heat press for about 4 or 5 seconds at 300 degrees once it's cured, which seems to take care of the rough texture...

I'll keep going and see what happens...

Thanks again everyone for the replies


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

so that was definitely the problem, not enough adhesive. I just printed 3 prints in a row that were almost as good as I think they'll get. A few little rough patches, but still smooth and looking a lot better...


----------



## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

good to hear. You should be able to achieve a smoother print. I'm guessing you're printing manually, try to keep the angle and pressure the same throughout your print stroke.


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

red514 said:


> good to hear. You should be able to achieve a smoother print. I'm guessing you're printing manually, try to keep the angle and pressure the same throughout your print stroke.


yes, manual print. keeping consistency from print to print seems to be the real challenge. so far so good. from what i've read white ink on a black shirt is the most difficult, true? if so, i can see why.

practice practice practice


----------



## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

hehe yes white ink on black ground is tricky, yellow ink on black is another one. It's often more efficient to print an under-base if you want a bright color on a dark ground.

they do sell more opaque inks for printing on darks that really help.

here's an article by Bill Hood you may find interesting, about 'white on black with a single stroke'
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/t-shirt-articles/t63073.html


----------



## Celtic (Feb 19, 2008)

All that and when you're using a 110 screen and if it has lots of open print area, you are laying down a lot of ink. 
I'd use a finer mesh, personally.

keep at it!
and yes,
practice practice practice


----------



## snackdaddy185 (May 17, 2008)

I agree with celtic, I stopped using 110 mesh with white ink and now usually use a 200 mesh with a push stroke. Night and day difference.


----------



## 73eyes (Jan 22, 2010)

snackdaddy185 said:


> I agree with celtic, I stopped using 110 mesh with white ink and now usually use a 200 mesh with a push stroke. Night and day difference.


Can you expand on this a little bit? Are you using a 200 for underbase *and* topcoat, or two different screens? I find I usually need to use a 60d squeegee with an 80 mesh screen to get a good final solid white after the print-flash-print routine. I go through a goodly amount of white ink, and the shirts dont have the softest feel, but they're easy to print, and look good.

Or is this related to using a push stroke? (I've never pushed, always pulled!)


----------



## snackdaddy185 (May 17, 2008)

I print flash print with a 200 mesh. One screen. I've even done it with a 230 mesh. 70 durometer and use a fill stroke (not flood). I use the push method because its easier for me to clear the screen. Hope it helps.


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi guys, I really need your help. I am new to screen printing and am having a bit of trouble printing white on black shirt. I currently have a 230 mesh and am using the white ink from Silk Screening Supplies .com, screen printing equipment, silk screen printing kits. The ink seems to be very very faint and is not opaque. I use plenty of spray adhesive so the shirt won't stick. I have been told to use some reducer to make the ink less creamy. Any ideas?

P.S I also check my off-contact adjustments...


----------



## snackdaddy185 (May 17, 2008)

Are you flashing the first layer of ink then printing again? Be sure the really mix the ink before printing.


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

I'm not flashing between passes. There many ways that I have read to print white ink on black shirts. I'm trying to stay away from flashing the printing again as it reduces production time....

Will reducer help this problem? If it helps i can post up pictures...


----------



## bReed (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info!


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

I coated my screen with a 2-and-2 method. I first coated the inside and then coated the outside w/o letting the inside dry. Could this cause the white ink to not color the shirt opaquely? Is there a difference in emulsion thickness for a light ink than a dark one?

I also ordered ink reducer and stretch additive. Has anyone used these before?


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

jonbapparel said:


> I coated my screen with a 2-and-2 method. I first coated the inside and then coated the outside w/o letting the inside dry. Could this cause the white ink to not color the shirt opaquely? Is there a difference in emulsion thickness for a light ink than a dark one?
> 
> I also ordered ink reducer and stretch additive. Has anyone used these before?


Have you considered using a lower mesh count, maybe a 156 or 200? If you're using a 230, you're likely going to have to print/flash/print, and or maybe even print/print/flash/print.

One thing I've noticed is that the squeegee angle makes a huge difference in the opaqueness of the print. I have to hit the screen at about a 70 degree angle to get the print results I want. 

Can you post some pictures?


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

I've tried many different angles when printing. I always stay within 70-80 degrees to get the best impression.

I used a 230 mesh because I thought that in order to maintain good detail, you would need a higher mesh count. Seeing as I'm new to printing, I thought the detail in the logo on the bottom would call for a 230 mesh. Can I use anything else? Thanks for the help


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

jonbapparel said:


> I've tried many different angles when printing. I always stay within 70-80 degrees to get the best impression.
> 
> I used a 230 mesh because I thought that in order to maintain good detail, you would need a higher mesh count. Seeing as I'm new to printing, I thought the detail in the logo on the bottom would call for a 230 mesh. Can I use anything else? Thanks for the help


For the first 3 designs in your file you could probably use a 156 or 200 mesh and still get good results. The last design you would probably want to go with a 200 mesh. None of your designs have super-fine detail that should require more than a 200 mesh.

As far a opaqueness, have you tried print/print/flash/print? I know it greatly adds to the production time, but even with a 110 mesh, I still had to use a print/flash/print to get a good solid print with white ink on black tees.

Try multiple passes and see what kind of results you get. If you can, post some pics of your design after you print them.


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.Ill try the print/print/flash/print method. The white ink is proving to be a pain in the mesh...

How about the additives? Any word on those?


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

jonbapparel said:


> Thanks for the advice.Ill try the print/print/flash/print method. The white ink is proving to be a pain in the mesh...
> 
> How about the additives? Any word on those?


Sorry, I'm fairly new myself, so I've never used additives. Right now I'm more comfortable with just running multiple passes to get the results I want/need.


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

Just to clarify, what you mean by print/print/flash/print is two ink the shirt twice, followed by a flash, then another pass and finally a flash??


----------



## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

jonbapparel said:


> Just to clarify, what you mean by print/print/flash/print is two ink the shirt twice, followed by a flash, then another pass and finally a flash??


Pull the squeegee once, then pull it again, then flash, then pull the squeegee one last time. A total of 3 passes. It's more work, but with a higher mess count, you're pushing less ink thru the screen.


----------



## jonbapparel (Jan 24, 2010)

OK. Thanks and I'll post up my pictures of my (crossing fingers) success....


----------



## CastandBlast (Mar 28, 2009)

I know this is an old thread, but I had the same problem sort of today... Using a 230 with the white from ryonet on black. Using the 230 because it is a half tone print of a picture. I've been doing the tees no prob 
with flood print, flood print, flash and then flood print, a bit of dot gain but still looks really good. Now today at the end of my tee run I started some hoodies, thats where the trouble began. Losing quality. 
Now I think it's partially due to all the lose fibers (less of a smooth surface) compared to the tees, but 
but the ink thickness seems to be more challenging for some reason on these too...?
How much of a difference does off contact play when doing mid weight hoods compared to tees?

Also I want to get some reducer and really thin out the white for the rest for this run but not sure how much is too much or too little?

I need some pro advice on this please!


----------

