# "Permanent Water-Based Distressed Silkscreen?"



## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Before you say it, yes, that was a mouthful!

I was admiring a product on a site this morning (they are not a printing or apparel company whatsoever, to my knowledge). The company selling the product also sell a handful of nice T-Shirts for their product enthusiasts, and to help advertise I'm sure. They openly indicated that they use all American Apparel tees.

The company then went on to give a detailed description of their tees and the printing process on a couple read:

"_*Permanent Water-Based Distressed Silkscreen provides an ultra smooth print...*_"

"_*Distressed discharge-combo screenprint for a soft hand...*_"

Question - is the first description a screenprinting process? I assumed so because of the *water-based* reference, and where does the *distressed* part come in? Does ultra smooth mean a soft hand?

For the second description - is this too a screenprinting process? (I know it _says_ so, but the discharge-combo part made me think it was a different printing technology used.)

Of course, I emailed asking if they will share who does their screenprinting services. Let's see what they say. 

AB


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## Greg Hamrick (Jan 25, 2007)

Distressed would be lettering or a logo that has the look of being old and tattered, and Ultra smooth...might mean soft hand or a very smooth feel to the print when you run your hand over it.
Discharged combo is most likely a discharge ink for an underbase, to give that soft feel, and a plastisol over print. Doesn't sound like anything special.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Question - is the first description a screenprinting process? I assumed so because of the water-based reference,


Yes, it is water based ink screen printing, but I think just the actual design was given a distressed pattern to give it the "Vintage" look.



> Does ultra smooth mean a soft hand?


Unfortunately, there's no real standard terms that will say for sure what they mean, but my best guess is that the mean it has a soft hand. 

If it's water based ink, then you probably can't feel the design on the shirt. If you want to see a good example of quality water based ink screen printing (and great product packages and service), buy one of the designs from Oddica



> For the second description - is this too a screenprinting process? (I know it says so, but the discharge-combo part made me think it was a different printing technology used.)


Yes, discharge is a screen printing process where the pigment from the shirt is removed which reduces or eliminates the need for the standard "white ink" underbase for dark garments (which makes the designs have more "hand"). Using a discharge base makes the designs much smoother to the touch.


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## instrumental (Dec 28, 2006)

you can also do a discharge print where you use a discharge clear base and add apigment so the color of the shirt is taken out and replaced with the pigment color so you can do a light color on a dark and achiev a soft feel

and the first part just sounds like fancy riting to me


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Rodney said:


> Yes, it is water based ink screen printing, but I think just the actual design was given a distressed pattern to give it the "Vintage" look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice and thank you for both of your replies!

They bring about a couple more questions:

1. With discharge printing, can water-based inks be used and where can I find advantages/disadvantages of discharge printing vs. screenprinting?

2. I checked out a few designs at Oddica and was really impressed. I did not see that they did water-based screenprinting themselves. I will contact them to ask who does this for them.

AB


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

> 1. With discharge printing, can water-based inks be used and where can I find advantages/disadvantages of discharge printing vs. screenprinting?


Yes they can. Cost will be the biggest disadvantage and finding a printer who prints both. Also certain garments discharge better than others.


The pigments can either be plasticol pigments or waterbase pigments, both will yeild a softhad fell. Minimal to no had on the shirt.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I checked out a few designs at Oddica and was really impressed. I did not see that they did water-based screenprinting themselves. I will contact them to ask who does this for them.


They don't do it inhouse, but they use a printer in the Los Angeles area. They're also a member here 

You really have to see it to see how cool it is.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Rodney said:


> They don't do it inhouse, but they use a printer in the Los Angeles area. They're also a member here
> 
> You really have to see it to see how cool it is.


Sweet! Now, do you mean that I have to see their shirts to see how cool it is, or the screenprinter to see how cool the printing process is?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Now, do you mean that I have to see their shirts to see how cool it is


You've got to see their shirts to see how cool it is. The whole package (from the shipping bag to the printed shirts) when you get it is very nice. Great attention to detail.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

I found some pics of the "unboxing" for Oddica shirts. Very nice! 

What I admire is them being different/unique. What's interesting is that I've had this same idea with the _type_ of packing they use, but had not thought about a particular "print" on the bag. Neat!


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## jasperketone (Feb 15, 2007)

one disadvantage with discharge is it doesn't work well with certain dyes... also need a long dryer for it.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

jasperketone said:


> one disadvantage with discharge is it doesn't work well with certain dyes... also need a long dryer for it.


Thanks for the info!


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## lostwages (Mar 16, 2006)

Yo Rodney, who prints those shirts from odica, how do I contact them?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

lostwages said:


> Yo Rodney, who prints those shirts from odica, how do I contact them?


Contact the folks from oddica and ask. They've very nice folk


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

hey rodney, thanks for the kind words ...

lost wages, i rec'd your private message ...

The main thing is: You need to be here in Southern California.

Screenprinting is hands-on, so if you're in Southern California
I'd be happy to point you in the right direction. But if you are out of town, 
then I wouldn't recommend anyone local. I'd suggest finding someone
in your geographic area.

Second, there are two screenprinters in our area who can do a good job
with water-based printing. With one you need to hit higher minimums;
the other can work with smaller quantities.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

oddica said:


> hey rodney, thanks for the kind words ...
> 
> lost wages, i rec'd your private message ...
> 
> ...


Hi Brian!

Can you share those printers publicly or send me a PM of who they are? I'm wondering what the mystery is about these two printers. 

If they're that good, I'd sure like to contact them. 

Or, is it a situation where these companies will *only* take jobs from local customers?


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

AdriaticBlue said:


> Hi Brian!
> 
> Can you share those printers publicly or send me a PM of who they are? I'm wondering what the mystery is about these two printers.
> 
> ...


It's best to send Brian a PM and get the referral that way


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Rodney said:


> It's best to send Brian a PM and get the referral that way


Will do! Although, I emailed them about 3 weeks ago seeking this same info but was not given a name in confidence at that time either.

I was referred by someone else to a water-based ink screenprinter in OR who thought I was local. They told me to bring down some bamboo samples to have them test print. I told them that I wished I could, but I'm in NC!  

They were willing to work with me but said that they are primarily printers for local customers, which I understood.


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

yes, these particular printers typically will only take local industry clients who have a 
track record and whom they feel they can trust ... really, everyone has had
a situation arise where they ship some shirts out of state, and the client is 
dissatisfied and doesn't want to pay. I've been doing this since 1998, and
have experienced that myself. They also want to avoid deadbeat clients
in general. If you're a screenprinter and you bring on a new company, 
you do so realizing that there's a high failure rate among new companies.
So the screenprinters just want to minimize headaches and not have to
chase someone out of state to get payment.


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

that said, if someone is in the L.A. area, then I will point them
in the right direction.  But out-of-state companies, it's best to
find a local.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

oddica said:


> that said, if someone is in the L.A. area, then I will point them
> in the right direction.  But out-of-state companies, it's best to
> find a local.


I appreciate your advice and insight. Are _you_ your screenprinter? IMO, I would prefer to be the one to decide if I go local or not.  

As much as I'm hoping to partner with a local company, one company I first contacted has clearly shown me that my business is not wanted now. They refuse to answer questions and calls so of course, I'm steering clear away. 

Second company is a possibility down the road, as their special technology for printing is costly for my business starting out. 

I've found a third company but they've never printed on my choice of material. 

Nevertheless, if a company can do what I need now, they can provide great customer service and their price fits my budget, I don't mind going with an out-of-state business.


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

i'm not a screenprinter, no 

Mammoth in Alabama does a lot of work with out-of-state clients ... 
not sure if they do water-based printing.

I'm not saying you won't find success doing out-of-state printing ... just
that these two printers in my area generally avoid it. But Mammoth
clearly thrives on it.

fwiw, the best thing to do is pay for a strike off, and hope that the production
run matches the approved strike off.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> fwiw, the best thing to do is pay for a strike off, and hope that the production
> run matches the approved strike off.


Hey Brian, how much do you usually pay for a strike off? A strike off is an actual printed proof right?


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

$35 for each strike off — usually run on a hand press. They usually do at least two, 
one for the shop, and one for the client.

strike offs for more than 5 or 6 colors can be cumbersome to set up, and 
the cost would likely go up.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

AdriaticBlue said:


> I don't mind going with an out-of-state business.


The point is by the sound of it a lot of them would mind going with you (or anyone else inter-state... obviously nothing personal ).


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Rodney said:


> A strike off is an actual printed proof right?


Yes. Typically done to make sure screens are registered and exposed properly, inks are the right colours, etc. I was under the impression the term is used for yardage rather than t-shirts, but I guess there's no reason that would have to be the case.

It's a completely normal print, but you only set up for one print. In the case of a t-shirt that doesn't really make a difference, but in the case of yardage that actually saves a lot of labour (although it's still very labour intensive).


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

what Solmu on each of those


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## oddica (Aug 8, 2006)

oh, here's the link to Mammoth

Mammoth Printshop


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