# cost comparisons for websites



## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

hello, 
I am trying to get a real idea of how much i'd have to pay to have a website like zazzle built, vs. bad idea t-shirts, as well as a smaller site, that i also admire, masonic T-shirts (who i think posts in this forum). Basically, we are trying to figure out how much we should spend on a website.
thanks,
J-rock


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Post links please, for those of us who have never heard of some of these sites.

Also list features you want, unless you are just going for the look?


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## Clobbersaurus (Jul 31, 2009)

I'd say spend as much as you can afford. Image is everything and your clients perception of you is strongly influenced by your presentation.

You can find someone to build what ever you want in most price ranges. I suggest determining your budget and then deciding which look you want to go with and then trying to find someone who will do what you want, or as close as possible with your budget. There's a glut of talented web developers, it's a buyers market if you look in the right places.


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

splathead said:


> Post links please, for those of us who have never heard of some of these sites.
> 
> Also list features you want, unless you are just going for the look?


www.zazzle.com Funny T Shirts | Tee Shirts | Women's T-Shirts | Gag Gifts | Vintage T Shirts | Cool, Offensive & Crazy T Shirts | 80's Tees MASONIC PRINTS

thanks again


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Well, those are 3 completely different sites. Are you asking about the look? Or do they have some features you want to include in yours?

Have you decided on a shopping cart yet?


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

both look and feel, as well as functionality (like the ability to show different sizes, colors, etc at the click of a button), and probably a paypal feature and/or shopping cart. Those sites are different, so they'd give us an idea of the investment we might be looking at.
thanks!


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

Clobbersaurus said:


> I'd say spend as much as you can afford. Image is everything and your clients perception of you is strongly influenced by your presentation.
> 
> You can find someone to build what ever you want in most price ranges. I suggest determining your budget and then deciding which look you want to go with and then trying to find someone who will do what you want, or as close as possible with your budget. There's a glut of talented web developers, it's a buyers market if you look in the right places.



Don't let price be your only deciding factor in picking a developer. If you find a bargain basement developer at a low cost you're going to get what you pay for and it will likely cost you more in the long run. Clobbersaurus is right. Decide what you can afford first, then sit down with a design company or freelance developer and tell them what you would like. That will give them a starting point, then based on your budget they'll begin to recommend areas where you can cut to save money. 

Here's a couple tips:

1) Find a reputable company/freelancer that does web design and development full time and not as a spare time hobby. Ask what programming languages and database they will be using and ensure that you will always have the ability to extract all of your data whenever you need it - especially customer data. This is important in the event that you may someday decide to switch design companies and you'll want to take your information with you.

2) It's very rare for programmers to possess both strong programming skills as well as good artistic design abilities. Asking for samples or checking that there are separate creative and programming departments that work together will increase your chances for a better end product. If you're simply "cloning" another site or buying a template, you might be able to get by with just a programmer, but you lose having a unique web identity by doing so.

3) Ask questions about their e-commerce experience - particularly questions about security. Get references from other companies they've built e-commerce sites for and call them. While some find that redirecting to Paypal during checkout can seem a bit cheesy for a professional feel, it can be a good alternative to ensuring security and save you some money as well.


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

thank you. But is there any ballpark price? If you looked at bad idea t-shirts, and had to guess what it costs to have that site built, what would it be?


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## Clobbersaurus (Jul 31, 2009)

t-shirtatude3 said:


> thank you. But is there any ballpark price? If you looked at bad idea t-shirts, and had to guess what it costs to have that site built, what would it be?


There are no "bells and whistles" on that site. Depending on how much you actually needed done and how much you would do yourself after being setup, that site could be done for a couple hundred in the US and probably a 1/3 of that price overseas.


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

thank you!


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

can anyone recommend a good overseas developer?


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

Clobbersaurus said:


> There are no "bells and whistles" on that site. Depending on how much you actually needed done and how much you would do yourself after being setup, that site could be done for a couple hundred in the US and probably a 1/3 of that price overseas.


It's relatively simple, especially compared to zazzle, but I really think you're going to have a difficult time finding a half way decent developer to do it for a couple hundred bucks. 

I am (was) a web developer before growing tired of the IT rat race and I wouldn't have touched it for anywhere near that price. I would have put the bad idea t-shirts site, which personally I don't think is all that well done, at least around $2500 (US) - and even then only if it were as a huge favor to a friend or family member. You're easily looking at 60-80 hours worth of development time with a rate of $30-$40/hour for a real developer that knows what they're doing. I'd put a site like zazzle at at least $25,000. 

If you find someone to do it for $200, I'd seriously question their abilities and whether or not my customers credit card information would be safe in their hands since they'd probably know very little about security.


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## hostingdiva (Mar 31, 2006)

I second what pwhite20 said - for a website like Zazzle, you're going to spend at least $25K in just development cost (because you need not only the website but all the back end stuff - someone has to manage the website, someone has to long all the items, and the programmer will need to create that user interface). But, then you have to consider hosting - for a site like that, you can't just use run of the mill shared hosting. First, you don't want someone breaking into your account and stealing your code (which will happen on shared hosting). This means you'll need dedicated servers (or at least one). Then, someon is going to have to load all your inventory - and it's not going to be your programmer.

Overseas developer? hahaha... sorry, had to laugh. I've heard so many horror stories I can't even believe it! In any case, you're in luck! Have you heard of the recession? You can find a great developer in the US where you have more control and more abilities to monitor their work. Plus, if they steal your code, you can actually sue them!  Try posting a few ads on craigslist.com - you'll find that there are many very good developers currently looking for work.


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

thank you. I would obviously prefer to find a developer here, but like all people with a business have to consider costs. and thanks for the warning re: overseas devs


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

t-shirtatude3 said:


> thank you. I would obviously prefer to find a developer here, but like all people with a business have to consider costs. and thanks for the warning re: overseas devs


If you're looking for a web designer/developer referral, please post in the Referrals area of the forum here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/referrals-recommendations/

A site like Zazzle would cost several hundred thousand dollars to do what they're doing.

A simple ecommerce site where people can add a product to a shopping cart, choose sizes/colors would probably be anywhere from $500-$5000+ depending on who you hire and what _exactly_ your specs are. 

The less specific you are when talking to a designer/developer, the more time it will take them to deliver what you need and the more money it will end up costing you.


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

t-shirtatude3 said:


> thank you. I would obviously prefer to find a developer here, but like all people with a business have to consider costs. and thanks for the warning re: overseas devs


Unless you're planning on dropping a large amount on a site, it's probably not going to be any cheaper for you to have it done overseas anyway. In fact, unless you're a big company with some serious negotiating power it would probably end up being more expensive. What typically happens is they quote you a low rate per hour and take 5 times as long to do the job. They're also well known for taking jobs that they're technically incapable of completing then hacking something together just to get paid.


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## t-shirtatude3 (Oct 3, 2009)

much appreciated


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## thedeadpress (Mar 12, 2009)

Just being able to speak face to face is worth hundreds imo. Go with a respected company in your area if you can find one and you'll build a good long lasting relationship. As you grow your needs grow - it can be a longer term investment than most people think.


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## Clobbersaurus (Jul 31, 2009)

There is talent overseas that rivals the best domestics. Obviously you don't hand over your cash to the first person you talk to, but assuming you've got a good head on your shoulders and you take proper precautions, you can get top quality work at a fraction of the price. There's bad / unqualified / unscrupulous overseas providers but there are also bad / unqualified / unscrupulous domestics as well.

You said it yourself, you have a business and have to consider cost. Even in with the recession, labor costs for these markets are crazy inflated domestically. I was a designer at the L.A. Times before they outsourced to India. The quality was damn near the same except the new designers were getting something like $2.00 a day. 

That site you are referencing is relatively simple and the $2000 quote for that underscores my point.


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## pwhite20 (May 20, 2009)

Clobbersaurus said:


> There is talent overseas that rivals the best domestics. Obviously you don't hand over your cash to the first person you talk to, but assuming you've got a good head on your shoulders and you take proper precautions, you can get top quality work at a fraction of the price. There's bad / unqualified / unscrupulous overseas providers but there are also bad / unqualified / unscrupulous domestics as well.
> 
> You said it yourself, you have a business and have to consider cost. Even in with the recession, labor costs for these markets are crazy inflated domestically. I was a designer at the L.A. Times before they outsourced to India. The quality was damn near the same except the new designers were getting something like $2.00 a day.
> 
> That site you are referencing is relatively simple and the $2000 quote for that underscores my point.



I'm not saying there's not talent overseas, just that it's not anymore plentiful or cheaper than it is here. It's not like it was just a few short years ago. Their talent pool has grown a bit, but rates have as well. 

My company was bought out by a very large Indian company about 2 years ago and after a very long transition period my position was recently outsourced to developers over in India. I made a lot of friends in India and still keep in contact with many of them. Many of them were very qualified developers, but unless you're a big company that they want to get their foot in the door with I don't think you'd get them much cheaper than what you'd be able to find someone here for in the U.S. Their hourly rate was about 50% of what mine was, but when we both quoted the same jobs theirs always took at least twice as many billable hours to get the job completed and they always went over budget. Where's the savings in that? 

I can only speak sensibly about outsourcing to India since that's the only overseas country I have first hand experience with, but it's simply a different culture with different priorities and in my opinion quality isn't given the same level of attention as it generally is here in the U.S. 

What $2000 quote are you referring to that underscores your point? Are you referring to the amount that I threw out there? Being that you were a designer I'm guessing all you're looking at is the layout of the site. The point you're missing is the programming on the back end to make it all work. When you start including a database, shopping cart and product option capabilities it gets to be much more complex. If all you want is pretty just go to templatemonster.com or some similar template site and buy a template for $50, but if you want to make it functional then you're going to need to pay for a developer.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

I take a different stance on web sites. As they are my primary source of income I decided to build my own, using Zen Cart as the basis. Involves a learning curve, but you stay in control of the whole process then.

Whilst glossy web sites are all well and good, I have seen some great sites let down with apalling products and unrealistic prices. I have even seen sites where the payment buttons don't work. .. 

BEFORE you invest big bucks on a custom built web site, you need to think HOW you are going to get people to that web site and WHY they are going to buy YOUR products. If the answers are google and because I have a pretty web site then you might need to reflect on your strategy. A web site on its own, does not automatically equate to business success.


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## KimKman (Jul 31, 2008)

Rodney said:


> A site like Zazzle would cost several hundred thousand dollars to do what they're doing.


You are most likely in the ball park for their yearly budget on the website alone.

Huge investment here. But also huge returns.

So I suppose it depends what you are looking for.


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## CUSTOM UK (Jun 28, 2008)

KimKman said:


> Huge investment here. But also huge returns.


A lot of potential site builders assume high returns from their sites. Reality is, there are thousands of t-shirt sites out there and the majority of site owners will *not* see huge sales on their sites. 

Unless a business is already established, or has an innovative and unique product at a realistic price, you need to keep touch with reality on sales forecasts. You also need to limit your capital investment at sensible levels, until you thoroughly test out the market.


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

and after the site is built and up... you need someone to keep it running...
security updates...product changes, etc


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## verses (Sep 24, 2009)

If you're still interested in a website, please IM me. I tried to send an IM but your inbox is full.


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