# Questions about bobbin/machine tensions...



## LightishRedd (Aug 5, 2013)

Hey everyone! This is my first post on t-shirtforums.com. I'm looking forward to talking with everyone.

My questions are about using bobbin tension to set the machine tensions. I've been a machine operator for the same company for nearly eight years. I've run 6-head SWFs for the majority of that time, but I've been running a Barudan 6-head for the past three years. It's a sweet machine, love it!

My issues are with setting tensions properly on the Barudan. Setting tensions on the SWFs is pretty straightforward. Each head has two rows of pretension knobs and one row of larger tension knobs. I set the bobbin tension with a Towa gauge at 22gf then tighten each of the three knobs equally until one-third bobbin was showing on the back of an "I" test. I do this for every needle and the machine runs fine. I was originally taught to set bobbin tension for the SWFs at 30gf, but that gave me problems with thread breaks, birds nests, and looping.

Running the Barudan is another story. The Barudan has one row of small pretensioners (knobs with metal discs) and one row of large tension knobs. After talking to a customer support service tech on the phone, I was told that the pretensioners are actually providing most of the tension to the upper thread and that the larger knobs only apply small amounts of tension and are only there to keep the upper thread from bouncing around. I was also told that I should only see 3-4 threads on the metal post after tightening the pretensioners, otherwise I was over tightening them. I didn't really get any instruction on properly adjusting the larger tension knobs.

Here are my questions:

- What should I start my bobbin tension at?
I currently have them set to 20gf but I still have to crank down a lot on the pretensioners to get 1/3 bobbin showing. It feels like they're tightened too much, but my only reason for thinking this is that I have to turn them a lot. For the most part, my shop embroiders tees, polos, sweats, performance sport shirts, and hats. We typically use E-Zee backing from Madeira in 3.0oz cut away on most garments. I know that stabilizer, thread weight, garment type, etc. can affect tension. Is bobbin tension just something I'll have to find out with trial and error?

- How should I go about adjusting the larger tension knobs? Is it correct that their only use is to keep the upper thread from bouncing around? If I adjust them like I would on the SWF, they tighten up really quick, and cause the wheel that the thread wraps around not to move.

- When I "overtighten" the knobs and get the tensions set correctly, I end up with a problem that I never experienced on the SWF. On the Barudan, "I" tests look fine, but when I sew out designs with approximately 3 millimeter satin stitches I start to see bobbin thread through the shirt. The support tech told me that I would need to tighten the bobbin thread on those designs. Is this typical? Do most of you set your upper thread tensions to a reasonable point and them adjust your bobbin for particular designs? SWF tensions for me were normally "set it and forget it." SWF tensions would normally yield 1/3 bobbin no matter what size a satin stitch was, and I would never change the bobbin tension to something different.

This leads me to another issue. When I complete an "I" test, I'll sometimes do a "FOX" test to make sure that horizontal, vertical, diagonal, and curved satin stitches have bobbin thread that looks correct. After doing these tests, sometimes I'll run a job that has satin stitches, check the bobbin on back and notice that the bobbin thread had widened across the entire design! I'll check the bobbin tension with the gauge and find out the tension is still correct. Do upper tensions ever tighten after making adjustments?

I know I'll have more questions as the discussion follows. Please assume that my bobbin cases and metal tension discs are clean and clear of lint and waxy buildup.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

I've run any number of different brands and always tensioned the same way. Start with the bottom tension (I use a drop test, without winding the bobbin into the pigs tail give the bobbin a little pop while holding on to the thread and if it gives you a half or quarter inch your in the ball park). Sew an H and adjust the top tension chasing the bottom. The little knobs are the pre tensioners, the real tensioning is done with the big knob. 20 plus years doing this and it always works.


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## LightishRedd (Aug 5, 2013)

Hi! Thanks for your reply.

I appreciate your experience and thoughts on using the drop test, but I've never been comfortable with it. Beyond never being able to do it properly myself, I've never been able to find someone who has a good reason for doing it the way they do.

I've watched embroidery training videos where the trainer says to pull 9 to 12 inches of bobbin out of the casing and mark the thread where it meets the spring with a marker. Then hold out your arm, drop your hand with a slight jolt and if it drops "about an inch", it's properly tensioned or "in the ballpark." The question I've always asked at that point is, "In the ballpark of what?" I'm not sure if it should drop a quarter-inch, a half-inch, an inch, or two inches; I've heard people swear by all four. Then in my mind, I think that everyone will be dropping their hand or arm at different rates/strengths. I've always believed the drop test to have so many variables that it's virtually useless to me. I know that it's worked for many people, so i can't knock it too much. Hopefully what I've said doesn't make me come off as a jerk.

I'm not sure if what you said about the large tensioner is correct with this Barudan. When I tighten the large tensioner, it applies very minimal tension to the felt and the metal wheel until it gets to a point where the metal wheel won't turn. I've done a few "I" tests to see what was happening and the tests seem to confirm it.


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## philipfirth83 (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi David, You are correct, The larger tensioner is for fine tuning while the small pretensioner is where the majority of the tension comes from.

The most accurate way to get the tension right is to use a bobbin tensioner(towa) and thread tensioner(tajima).

Not sure where your based but ETC do them in the UK here.

ETC Worldwide Suppliers of Garment Decoration Products | Embroidery, Sublimation, Heat Press, Packaging, Diamante, Badges

ETC Worldwide Suppliers of Garment Decoration Products | Embroidery, Sublimation, Heat Press, Packaging, Diamante, Badges

I set my bobbin tension so there is a very slight resistance on the bobbin pulling it through the case.

Hope this helps


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## Davorious (5 mo ago)

> Moderator note: Edited for readability. Paragraphs are your friend.


I’ve worked two 8-head Barudan machines for over two years embroidering many different styles of hats made out of many different fabrics structured and unstructured. I produce between 450-800 finished products a day while maintaining less then 1% error rate. I embroider front center designs, front right/left wear designs, left/right side designs, back center designs and back left/right designs on. I use polyester thread mostly unless there is a special order. I embroider bucket hats and knits (beenies) also. In a company that produces on average of 7000-10,000 finished product a day I have become one of the best barudan operators in the company second to one only but this person is less knowledgeable but can produce more (has more energy).

I can say that I honestly could not tell you in any measurement what to set your tension to on your bobbin or your thread I wasn’t trained that way. I was trained by feel alone you are correct that you want 1/3 bobbin showing in the reverse. 

A major tension issue that people tend to over look is dust and debris from shelves or old thread running through the machine. Yes it has that cotton filter on the top bar but dust will still get through to the thread and the bobbin casing. I clean my machines every 4-6 hours with a air hose and then I oil. Every two weeks I deep oil and once a week I oil the red dots. Doing so prevents a lot of dust build up and insures a smooth running machine. If dust makes it through you can experience thread breaks and tension issues.. before tightening/loosening any tension wheels you should clear out any dust or debris then re check your tensions. If still loose or tight on the bobbin turn the screw in 1/8 turn increments checking the tension each time until the best way I can say it is the bobbin won’t let any out of your holding it by the thread but if you apply a small amount of pressure it will unwind. Almost the same amount of force to rip a number ticket at the dmv from the dispenser. 

Your thread tension should match your bobbin tension. It’s a tug of war that you don’t want either side to win. The small tension wheel at the top in my experience is what prevents the thread between the small and big tensioners from jumping around.. if the head is properly threaded pull the thread from the needle not out of it though and stretch out about a foot keep tension on it and bounce your other hand on the foot of thread repeatedly. 

If you can see the thread between the two tension wheels bouncing you need to tighten your small tension wheel until you can no longer see the thread bounce between the wheels. Bouncing your hand on the excess thread simulates The needle plunging while stitching. Once you have the thread tension set correctly between the two tension wheels you can move on to the larger tensioner. 

The larger tensioner applies the tension to the thread from the large wheel down to the needle. The large tension wheel You either tighten or loosen according to the bobbin tension. Both bobbin tension and thread tension should be the same or as close to it as possible. You will know of your tension is set to tight by thread breaks ratnests and Frays. All of which are signs of tension issues with either your thread or bobbin. 

If you have made the proper adjustments and your still find your having issues there are a couple things that could be done. There could be burrs on the needle or the foot use a abrasive cloth or fine grit sand Paper to remove burrs or replace needle or foot. 

If that doesn’t work you might check your tensioning spring located under the small tension wheel. If the spring is bad it won’t hold tension. If you think the problem is in the large tension wheel you can remove the wheel and check for debris. Replace the large tension wheel if needed. With the bobbin the tension screw could be starting to strip and a new bobbin case may be needed. Or the tension plate on the bobbin case could be bent or burred. Or the pigtail could be bent or damage either situation replacement bobbin case is suggested. 

Remember though threads made of different material may require different tensions along with products of different materials. You could also check the backing your using. I use cut away and tearaway depending on the application. I also use different thicknesses depending if the product is structured or unstructured. 

I hope this has helped someone in some way.


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## rpaul (Dec 8, 2013)

I set my bobbins at 25g. a hard drop in the drop method.Polyester thread is stretchy so I use 2/3 top tension and 1/3 bottom. Rayon thread has no stretch and needs less tension a touch of top tension and mostly bottom. I think the poly is 75 g but its been decades since I measured it. Mostly go by feel but I feel if the thread is not bouncing and running straight, the fewer problems and better sew quality.
We have 2 Tajima machines and typically keep Poly on one and run hats. The other machine has Rayon and runs flats.We have had Melco and Barudan in the past but this method has worked on all.


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