# Sublimation printer and ink system



## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

Hey guys, I've recently been researching a lot about sublimation printing and screen printing, and based on the business model of the business I want to start, I've decided the best method to start is sublimation. 

I think I will be starting with an Epson Art. 1430 or a Virtuoso SG400, the only doubt I have is regarding the ink. Inkwise, which one should I choose? considering the fact that one uses the cobra CIS systems (I will be ordering it from the cobra website) and the other uses sublijet IQ sublimation ink. Which ink system is better and which one will give me better results in printing/cost effectiveness/ink efficiency?

I'm trying to start my own business here but the printing method has been very difficult to choose and the fact that I'm not in the U.S. has also been something that has made me hesitate, since it would take a considerable amout of time for the ink to arrive here. 

And what do you think about the ink prices? the Sublijet ink is $155 (I can't find the exact amout of ink) per bag and per color, and the Cobra ink is $1069 the set of 32 oz. bottles of 6 colors. Can someone shed some light to me on this one?

And finally, do I need a vinyl cutter for the whole process?


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## cbs1963 (May 31, 2007)

Joedanger10 said:


> Hey guys, I've recently been researching a lot about sublimation printing and screen printing, and based on the business model of the business I want to start, I've decided the best method to start is sublimation.
> 
> I think I will be starting with an Epson Art. 1430 or a Virtuoso SG400, the only doubt I have is regarding the ink. Inkwise, which one should I choose? considering the fact that one uses the cobra CIS systems (I will be ordering it from the cobra website) and the other uses sublijet IQ sublimation ink. Which ink system is better and which one will give me better results in printing/cost effectiveness/ink efficiency?
> 
> ...



The SG400 uses cartridges, the black is 42ml and colors are 29ml. Did not see a bulk system for that printer. For the Epson 1430 one site advertises Sublijet quick connect inks 110ml bags list for $155. If my converter is correct 110ml is equal to about 3.7 ounces and the 42ml is 1.4 ounces and the 29ml is .98 ounces. The cartridges as a set of four are 
$325.50. Seems to be a serious price difference. The Virtuoso is popular with users. As for the vinyl cutter, that is completely separate from Dye Sub. Not sure this was the correct answer, but I hope it helps. Others may be better able to address your question. Good luck.
*
*


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## malkram (Jan 15, 2016)

I currently have an Epson 1500W (EU version of 1430) and used a SG 400 before.

SG 400 has an acceptable print quality, but remember it's a 4-color office printer, while the 1500W is a 6-color photo/fine art printer, it makes a serious difference. TBH SG 400 is good but if you want the best quality possible go for the 1500W.

Also, SG 400 uses cartridges and you can only use SubliJet-HD (around €260 for 3x29+42ml, which makes €8.68€/ml).
ArTainium ink (by Sawgrass) with CISS costs €480 for 6x125ml (€3.84/ml). There is a huge price difference, and I can tell you that ArTainium is a really good ink with its associated ICC profile.
I don't know about Cobra inks, I still recommend ArTainium.

Only thing with 1500W is maintenance, if you don't print at least once or twice a week, you risk having clogged heads, and since using non-Espon inks voids the warranty, you would have to buy a new one if you don't manage to solve this problem.


PS: I have a brand new SG 400 with 15ml SubliJet-HD inks (in its package, never opened) for sale if you want.


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

cbs1963 said:


> The SG400 uses cartridges, the black is 42ml and colors are 29ml. Did not see a bulk system for that printer. For the Epson 1430 one site advertises Sublijet quick connect inks 110ml bags list for $155. If my converter is correct 110ml is equal to about 3.7 ounces and the 42ml is 1.4 ounces and the 29ml is .98 ounces. The cartridges as a set of four are
> $325.50. Seems to be a serious price difference. The Virtuoso is popular with users. As for the vinyl cutter, that is completely separate from Dye Sub. Not sure this was the correct answer, but I hope it helps. Others may be better able to address your question. Good luck.
> *
> *


Thanks man, for a start up business would you recommend me the sawgrass printer or the epson printer? Since I have zero clients and zero experience on this business, I would think that the sawgrass would be a better starting printer, but I have absolutely no idea. 

What I liked about the Epson printer with the CIS system is that I have ink for a very very long time, but for now I don't need it. 

Also, what do you think of this? 

Garment Decorating Systems - Sawgrass

The description says that it can print on cotton, which to my knowledge was not possible because you need polyester fabric to sublimate.


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## veetwincowboy (Mar 14, 2015)

I have a Ricoh SG3110 DN with Sawgrass that i use for sublimation, great set up but it has it's limitations. The maximum size paper i can run through it is 8.5x14, for a start up that's not too bad but i have grown out of it and i'm looking at getting another Epson 1430 and running Cobra refillable carts or a ciss with it, cheaper and larger format. I use an Epson 1430 for my films and i do a lot of 13x19 with it. In my humble opinion you might be better off by eliminating future problems right from the start. Do it right the first time


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

veetwincowboy said:


> I have a Ricoh SG3110 DN with Sawgrass that i use for sublimation, great set up but it has it's limitations. The maximum size paper i can run through it is 8.5x14, for a start up that's not too bad but i have grown out of it and i'm looking at getting another Epson 1430 and running Cobra refillable carts or a ciss with it, cheaper and larger format. I use an Epson 1430 for my films and i do a lot of 13x19 with it. In my humble opinion you might be better off by eliminating future problems right from the start. Do it right the first time


You got a good point there, but won't there be an issue if I don't use the ink everyday or at least 3-5 times a week? My concern is that if I don't use the ink regularly it will clog and because it is a lot of ink I'll lose a lot of money.


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## veetwincowboy (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm not entirely positive but i think that once the Sawgrass patent for dyesub ink with an additive to prevent clogging expired other companies like Cobra started manufacturing comparable inks. Clogging shouldn't be the problem that it was years ago before Sawgrass. Even if you didn't use your rig every day you should be ok. but still you could print out a small test print on regular paper twice a week to be sure, or get some nozzle /head cleaning carts. Maybe somebody on here that is using Cobra or Chinese inks could answer that concern?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

malkram said:


> I currently have an Epson 1500W (EU version of 1430) and used a SG 400 before.
> 
> SG 400 has an acceptable print quality, but remember it's a 4-color office printer, while the 1500W is a 6-color photo/fine art printer, it makes a serious difference. TBH SG 400 is good but if you want the best quality possible go for the 1500W.
> 
> ...



Artanium has a HORRIBLE black and looks like an eggplant color, a lot of purple tint in it.

Used it for many years before other inks came out.

I recommend Artainium to no one.

Cobra inks are far superior and about 1/4 the price.

Also, Epson does a _quick no questions asked _exchange on warranty claims for their desktop printers in the US. No one gets their warranty voided in practice, you don't mention sublimation to them.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

veetwincowboy said:


> I'm not entirely positive but i think that once the Sawgrass patent for dyesub ink with an additive to prevent clogging expired other companies like Cobra started manufacturing comparable inks. Clogging shouldn't be the problem that it was years ago before Sawgrass. Even if you didn't use your rig every day you should be ok. but still you could print out a small test print on regular paper twice a week to be sure, or get some nozzle /head cleaning carts. Maybe somebody on here that is using Cobra or Chinese inks could answer that concern?


Actually Cobra was selling inks before the SG patent expired. Also, Cobra is a retailer (technically a VAR) and not a manufacturer.


I agree on your points about printing at least twice a week.


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

veetwincowboy said:


> I'm not entirely positive but i think that once the Sawgrass patent for dyesub ink with an additive to prevent clogging expired other companies like Cobra started manufacturing comparable inks. Clogging shouldn't be the problem that it was years ago before Sawgrass. Even if you didn't use your rig every day you should be ok. but still you could print out a small test print on regular paper twice a week to be sure, or get some nozzle /head cleaning carts. Maybe somebody on here that is using Cobra or Chinese inks could answer that concern?


So basically, cobra inks won't cause clogging? If that's the case then I'll definitely get the cobra CIS printer.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Joedanger10 said:


> So basically, cobra inks won't cause clogging? If that's the case then I'll definitely get the cobra CIS printer.


If you don't print often enough _any ink will cause clogging_.

FYI, Sawgrass patents didn't address clogging in piezo electric printheads (ie Epson) it adds an ingredient that "shields" the disperse (sublimation) dye from heat during the printing process. 

SG was trying to make sublimation inks work in Canon and HP's which use heat to transport the inks thru the head. Epson printers use electrical charge to transport the inks, hence no heat.

Heat is a bad thing to use to transport sub inks thru a printhead since this will prematurely start the sublimation process. 

*In fact Epson or others using piezos did not even have printers in the market when Sawgrass was pursuing their patent*

Ref:

Patent US5488907 - Permanent heat activated transfer printing process and composition - Google Patents


Texas Original Graphic lawsuit (which was successful) against Sawgrass and their patent exposed how Sawgrass abused their patent.


http://www.mgparrish.com/17711722614.pdf

The court determined:

page 11

"Accordingly, based on the Court’s examination of the intrinsic evidence in this case, the Court construes the term EEA to mean a chemical agent that disperses and stabilizes heat activated dye solids within a liquid solvent and protects the dye solids from exposure to heat
prior to and during the printing process.

The Sawgrass patent did nothing to address clogging in printers not using heat for ink transport.


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> If you don't print often enough _any ink will cause clogging_.
> 
> FYI, Sawgrass patents didn't address clogging in piezo electric printheads (ie Epson) it adds an ingredient that "shields" the disperse (sublimation) dye from heat during the printing process.
> 
> ...


Ok Ok, so basically what I need to do, regardless of which printer I choose, is to print a "test" or "sample" print in order to prevent clogging?


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## jonaburns (May 3, 2012)

I have a couple of functional 1430s and use Cobra Inks. We also use cleaning cartridges every 2 weeks and make sure something goes through the printer at least every other day. We use 1 for color and one with "all black" for creating screens.

You may not need to worry about it, but I have a third 1430, which was our 1st, in pieces with clogged heads and ink all over the place from CIS flooding.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Joedanger10 said:


> Ok Ok, so basically what I need to do, regardless of which printer I choose, is to print a "test" or "sample" print in order to prevent clogging?


Yes.

Some just do nozzle checks on a regular basis, if your environment is dry (like mine) you can use one of the "purge" files in this zip package. Only need to choose the appropriate file, 4 color 6 color 8 etc.

https://www.inksupply.com/zip/purge.zip


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Joedanger10 said:


> Ok Ok, so basically what I need to do, regardless of which printer I choose, is to print a "test" or "sample" print in order to prevent clogging?


LOL my sermon on the SG patent was meant for veetwincowboy's comment to you.

Anyway, inkjet printers use them or loose them.


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

mgparrish said:


> LOL my sermon on the SG patent was meant for veetwincowboy's comment to you.
> 
> Anyway, inkjet printers use them or loose them.


Lol, I kinda figured it out but since you seem to know a lot about the subject I figured maybe he can help me out.


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## WalkingZombie (Mar 15, 2014)

@Joedanger10 I use an Epson 1430 with CISS using Cobra ink. Even though I could have installed the CISS, I went ahead an purchased the printer, CISS (with waste tank installed) and inks in one package from their site. CISS came pre-filled, primed and ready-to-go. I primed again just to make sure there was no air in the lines.

It comes with a video disc. Watch it if you're new to this.

The only problem I had and something to be mindful of, was that one of the tubes inside, from the CISS, was cut from the clamp and air was getting in and made the waste tank back-fill back into the ink pad. Since the print head parks right over that ink pad, it actually contaminated my ink lines all the way back to the tanks, but they sent out all new ink. I fixed the cut in the tube and all has been well.

Or just buy it unassembled and install the CISS yourself to make sure you know the tubes install correctly. Even if the sliced tube wasn't caused by cobra, the long trip of banging around a UPS truck can help cut a tube from that little metal clamp.

If you go to their support page and scroll down, you will see a "Basic Color Choices" file that you can download and use to print test prints in between nozzle checks. Nozzle checks alone may not help clogging. Print that color test page once (or twice) a week and you should be good.

I also believe your geographic location has a part in clogging, whether it's cold, warm, high or low humidity, etc...

Good luck!


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

Thanks for your help guys, I think I've made up my mind about sublimation and will start shortly. 

I just want you to give me your thoughts about this printer: 
ChromaBlast-R - Sawgrass

Now I'm not an expert on sublimation, but from what I knew sublimation could only be done with fabrics or surfaces that are coated or made in part with polyester, and this printer description says it can print on cotton. 

Can someone shed some light on this one?


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## WalkingZombie (Mar 15, 2014)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t68499.html


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Joedanger10 said:


> Thanks for your help guys, I think I've made up my mind about sublimation and will start shortly.
> 
> I just want you to give me your thoughts about this printer:
> ChromaBlast-R - Sawgrass
> ...


Chromablast is not sublimation. It is using ink more like regular inkjet inks and using a paper that has a plastic release.

Pigment inks and JPSS (Jetpro Soft Stretch) get you the same or better quality at a much cheaper price than Chromablast.

See the Ink Jet Transfers section of this forum ....


Inkjet Heat Transfer Paper - T-Shirt Forums


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## Joedanger10 (Oct 13, 2015)

Hey guys, quick question here, can a sublimation printer be used to print negatives for the color separation for screen printing?


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## cbs1963 (May 31, 2007)

Joedanger10 said:


> Hey guys, quick question here, can a sublimation printer be used to print negatives for the color separation for screen printing?


I can't see a benefit to using more expensive ink, such as sublimation ink. Wouldn't cheaper dye or pigment ink not be the best choice?


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## bpfohler (Jun 7, 2009)

As was said before, every ink can clog. We've been running Harvey Head Cleaner for years and it's great if your not using your sublimation printer every day.
It's runs a simple nozzle check pattern every day (3am on ours) and it's inexpensive.


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