# Time to get an embroidery machine



## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi,

I am located in SW FL, Ive been looking for quite some time now at adding a machine to our screen printing, DTG, and sign shop. I hate turning away customers due to small orders, it is not worth my time to run to my contract embroiderer for a few pieces. 

The 2 machines in mind right now are Barudan and Tajima single head. 

On to the questions, do these manufacturers have state dealers, everything for sales tracks back to hirsch or Barudan USA ( i obviously havent spoken to anyone yet). 

I am speculating that these machines will be in the 15-20k range, can anyone give a closer price range ? 

Is it worth buying from a show for discounted pricing ? 

I have extensive vector and AI knowledge, do these 2 brands come with plug ins for digitizing or are these strictly third party. 

Thanks for any input!


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

divers2deep said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am located in SW FL, Ive been looking for quite some time now at adding a machine to our screen printing, DTG, and sign shop. I hate turning away customers due to small orders, it is not worth my time to run to my contract embroiderer for a few pieces.
> 
> ...


I sent you a pm. I will respond here as well.

First off if you aren't doing a whole lot of small orders it is better to find a used machine. There really isn't any point in experimenting with new equipment that is $14K to $22K. There are plenty of good quality used machines for under $6000. If you do well with a used machine and can pay it off and make money with it then possibly look at a new machine. I have seen people buy new machines and their business didn't take off and I ended up buying their euipment because they couldn't pay for it. Sometimes you can find multi heads for the price of a new single head which gives you better value for your money. The ultimate goal should not to be a single head shop. You can't make enough money with a single head especially if it isn't running 8 hours a day. 

Now to answer your other questions. Barudan and Hirsch are who you will have to deal with. Barudan has a few dealers but they are mostly in the mid west. 

They offer the show price on equipment after the show is over. No real need to go to a show to get the show price. I will breakdown the most current pricing I have.

Barudan:
BEXT 901 XL II which is the 9 needle compact $12,500
BEXT 1501 Pro Eliite II $14,500 
CO1 which is the full size bridge machine current show price is $17,500
These prices do not include delivery and training etc.

Tajima:
TEMX-C1501 which is the compact goes for $13995 if Hirsch goes into the so called "RED"
TUMX-C1501 which is the hybrid $15,245 if Hirsch goes into the "RED" 
TFMX-C1501 which is the stretch is a ? mark last I saw the were $19,000 but just had a customer get one for $17000
When I say Red that doesn't mean Hirsch will go that low for you or anybody else.

Keep in mind if you are leasing the machines you don't own it after 5 years and the buy out can vary depending on how you structure the lease. At the end of 5 years the machine is worth 50% to 60% of the purchase price. This is why I recommend used equipment because it is already lost it's value.

Barudan and Tajima are not the be all end all in equipment. 
It's not like these are the #1 and #2 machines. I feel Barudan is the better of the two. You have other good brands that are equal to or better then Tajima and Barudan as well. 
To name a few:
ZSK
Happy
SWF
Melco

Depending on what is important to you depends on what brand you should get. Each brand has it's own strengths and weaknesses and so does the companies who sell them. Also each model of equipment has it's limitations as well.

As to digitizing Melco has it's on plug in per say. Tajima and Barudan use a third party but can be linked to a computer. Of course Hirsch wants you to use Pulse which is decent and Barudan has Wilcom which is the best.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Since you are in SW FL, the closest to you would probably be ColDesi, formerly SWF-East. They no longer sell anything under the SWF name which were really rebadged Sunstar machines. They are currently selling machines under the Avance(?) name, not a lot of history available on them yet.

If you are just starting and don't have a lot of volume, you probably want to look into a used machine to start with. We started with the small Brother 6 needle machines - easy to learn, easy to throw in the car and take them to the dealer for service when necessary and they are pretty bulletproof. We decided we needed a more commercial machine with a larger sewing field and bought a new SWF 1501T and a DTG from SWF - probably the worst decision we made in almost 10 years or being in business. The DTG has been worthless and the SWF machine has been very tempermental... it's fine for running flats but a royal PITA on caps.


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## brandonlaura (Dec 26, 2015)

why don't you find a good supplier for your brand so that they will manufacture your clothes and you can easily sell them without having manufacturing tensions and you can give more an more time to your business it will also helps you to grow business fast


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

I have decided to go with Barudan - 

I am trying to figure out if the 9 needle machine is sufficient or if I should go with the 15 needle. Both machine are exact the same stats beside bigger sewing field and needle difference. The difference in price is $2,000. 

Jeff, thanks for the reply and phone call! 

Brandon, I do a lot of local schools, sports, and business work. The small run orders take more time to run back and forth to my contract embroidery person. I need a machine in house for these sorts of orders. Probably wont be a money maker at first, but could have potential in the long run. Just need this to complete my sign, screen, and DTG shop.


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## dale911 (Jan 25, 2012)

I was in the same boat as you are not that long ago. I was sold on the ZSK but my wife didn't see it in the numbers so I did some hunting and found a an older Medco machine with the software for $1500 and it's been great. There is more learning curve to this than I anticipated but it's not bad and can be pretty profitable. I have done well since I added it and it works well for my volume. If our volume increase, I will probably look for a used multi head as a quality machine works well even when used. Good luck!


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

If you are doing mostly schools, the 9 needle should be more than sufficient - I don't I've ever seen a school with more than 3 colors but nothing surprises me nowadays... Even doing most company logos, you rarely see more than 4-5 colors. The only advantage the 15 would have is you can keep the more common thread colors on the machine at all times. We keep red, black, white, navy and 3 different silvers on the middle needles of our 15 needle, then use the outer needles for other colors as needed - it's generally easier/faster to rethread the outer needles than the inner needles and you reduce the amount of time the machine spends changing needles.


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

tfalk said:


> If you are doing mostly schools, the 9 needle should be more than sufficient - I don't I've ever seen a school with more than 3 colors but nothing surprises me nowadays... Even doing most company logos, you rarely see more than 4-5 colors. The only advantage the 15 would have is you can keep the more common thread colors on the machine at all times. We keep red, black, white, navy and 3 different silvers on the middle needles of our 15 needle, then use the outer needles for other colors as needed - it's generally easier/faster to rethread the outer needles than the inner needles and you reduce the amount of time the machine spends changing needles.


What are you running ? How long would you say it takes to rethread?


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

We have (2) Brother PR1000 10 needle machines and an SWF 15 needle.

The 15 needle machine can be a real PITA to rethread from scratch - if you catch it before it hits the end of the spool or for a normal color change, it is much easier - tie the new spool to the old thread and just pull it through. If you miss and don't catch it before the end of the spool, the plastic tubes can be a real pain to pull the thread through... we use a piece of weedwacker line with a notch cut into the end to pull the thread through the tubes, then manually pull through all the gates, tensioners, etc...


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## gnizitigid (Jan 23, 2007)

divers2deep said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have extensive vector and AI knowledge, do these 2 brands come with plug ins for digitizing or are these strictly third party.
> 
> Thanks for any input!


I do not think so, if you need quality work, you need to learn manual digitizing or outsource your digitizing work


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## Wildgoose (Mar 5, 2013)

divers2deep said:


> I have extensive vector and AI knowledge, do these 2 brands come with plug ins for digitizing or are these strictly third party.


Speaking as one who just recently jumped into the market (and also have extensive AI experience) stitch files are a whole different world. I would plan on hiring out your digitizing at least until you get your feet wet and learn the trade. You will probably figure that out just like I did once you dive in. I am loving having a machine and the work has gravitated my way almost immediately.


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

I just got an opportunity to purchase a used machine thrown at me very unexpectedly. Let me know your thoughts, PLEASE!

Brother PR1000E
Purchased new Dec 2013
505 hours of run time
14mil stitch count. 
Service record from 4-5 months ago.

comes with extension table, standard and fast frames, lots of thread, stabilizer, and extension table. 

NO cart 

What are your thoughts on this machine and where should the price be on this unit ?


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

tfalk said:


> We have (2) Brother PR1000 10 needle machines and an SWF 15 needle.
> 
> The 15 needle machine can be a real PITA to rethread from scratch - if you catch it before it hits the end of the spool or for a normal color change, it is much easier - tie the new spool to the old thread and just pull it through. If you miss and don't catch it before the end of the spool, the plastic tubes can be a real pain to pull the thread through... we use a piece of weedwacker line with a notch cut into the end to pull the thread through the tubes, then manually pull through all the gates, tensioners, etc...


Thanks for the info, take a look at the post above. What are your thoughts ?


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

Now we are comparing a commercial embroidery machine to a home embroidery machine


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

EmbroidTek said:


> now we are comparing a commercial embroidery machine to a home embroidery machine


AHAHAH, based on the price of a new one, I didn't consider this a home based machine. Can you elaborate on that statement?


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

divers2deep said:


> AHAHAH, based on the price of a new one, I didn't consider this a home based machine. Can you elaborate on that statement?


Okay for the sake of comparing Apples to Oranges

Brother:
1)Almost the same price point as a commercial machine when they are new
2)More portable then a commercial machine, light weight, compact
3)You can load it in your car and take it to a Brother dealer when you want it serviced or fixed
4)Smaller sewing field
5) Brothers have a lot of plastic and harder to crack open to work on PITA
6) Smaller servo motors and drive motors then commercial
7) Lower resale value\
8) Great machine for a beginner or home business. You aren't gonna walk into a shop with 10 Brother PR's running. When it is time to move to a true commercial machine it's a harder market to sell the Brother in. You will eventually outgrow it and want to upgrade if you have the business demand

Barudan:
1)Better Build Quality
2)Better Resale
3) Bigger motors and drivers
4)Better Durability
5)Bigger sewing field
6)Better stitch quality
7) Not as much portbility, weighs more
8)Won't need to upgrade because you are already there. If it isn't the machine for you it would be easier to sell a Barudan

Brother Pr, Babylock, Janome, Happy Journey all fall into the Home Embroidery Machines because you can see all these at the Home Embroidery Show haha because they are little machines with a high price point.


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

The only Brother I can compare to a Barudan or Tajima is a Brother 415, 415, BES models because that was when Brother actually made a commercial machine. Brother is not a bad machine by any means. I think Brother makes great machines and DTG printers but I can't begin to compare it to a Barudan, ZSK, SWF, Happy, Tajima because it isn't in the same class of machinery as those. For some people that is all they need and it suits their needs fine.


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

EmbroidTek said:


> The only Brother I can compare to a Barudan or Tajima is a Brother 415, 415, BES models because that was when Brother actually made a commercial machine. Brother is not a bad machine by any means. I think Brother makes great machines and DTG printers but I can't begin to compare it to a Barudan, ZSK, SWF, Happy, Tajima because it isn't in the same class of machinery as those. For some people that is all they need and it suits their needs fine.


At what price point, do you become interested in this machine ?


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

divers2deep said:


> At what price point, do you become interested in this machine ?


Which machine? A Brother PR or a Brother 415, 416, BES Model?


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

EmbroidTek said:


> Which machine? A Brother PR or a Brother 415, 416, BES Model?


The Brother PR1000E


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

divers2deep said:


> The Brother PR1000E


Thats a tough question because I would never consider one because I know I can get a older Barudan or Happy or a comercial machine for the price of a semi used Brother PR. I guess if I really wanted a PR there is no way I would allow myself to pay more then $3500 for it even though people sell them between $4500 and $8000. Still at that price I would much rather have more bang for my buck and get a full size machine. I believe you shouldn't just buy what is available to start off because it's cheap etc. I think you buy the best machine you can get for your money and one that you won't outgrow in a year. If the machine ends up being a bust for you then if you bought a good brand and desirable machine it would be easy to recoup the loss.


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

I will say I would take a Brother PR over a Chinese machine any day of the week but that is only if I have to chose between a Brother and Chinese machine. I would take a Brother over any RiComa, Redline, Meistergram, Avance, etc Go to ebay or digitsmith and you will see how many Brother PR's are available. It is a lot because people outgrow them. They are hard to sell because there are too many used ones in the marketplace.


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## divers2deep (Mar 7, 2012)

makes sense, Thanks


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I would venture a guess that PR1000 is around $7K given current pricing? I bought one for $9K but it had just over a million stitches, cap frame, software, cylinder frame and some other extras.

While I understand Jeff's point of view, I don't always agree with it. Not everyone needs a full-blown commercial machine to start with. In our case, we started with the smaller Brother 6 needle machines and they did everything we ever asked them to do. The only reason we bought the 'commercial' machine was for the larger sewing field. If you are not doing jacket backs, 7.5 by 14 will handle 95% of the work you will get to start with...

The 'main' reason we bought the PR1000's is the built in camera. We do a lot of applique t-shirts where they do not want to see the typical placement stitches, only the widely spaced zig-zag stitches on top. We used to have them hand-stitched on a sewing machine but it took WAY too much time. No easy way to do them accurately on any commercial machine I've ever seen. On the PR1000, they are simple. We have 2 machines because it allows us to hoop a double layer applique, stitch the background on one machine and stitch the foreground on the other machine without having to rehoop each letter. When you are doing 100 shirts with 3 letters on each shirt, it takes a lot of time... the way I am doing them now, I can do 20-30 double layer letters an hour assembly-lining them...

Are they a 'commercial' machine? Not exactly. Do they do everything we need them to do? Yes. Our first PR600, we bought it for $5500, ran it for over 60 million stitches, then traded it in for $3K. Second PR600 bought for $5500, ran it for 48 million stitches, then sold it for $3K. I'd say we got our moneys worth out of them...

Honestly, we've had far more trouble with our 'commercial' machine than we've had with ANY of the Brother machines and I don't have to pay someone to come to the house to service/repair it.... When you are just starting out, do you really need to buy an 18-wheeler when a smaller truck will do the job?


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## AlisonB (Sep 26, 2010)

tfalk said:


> We have (2) Brother PR1000 10 needle machines and an SWF 15 needle.
> 
> The 15 needle machine can be a real PITA to rethread from scratch - if you catch it before it hits the end of the spool or for a normal color change, it is much easier - tie the new spool to the old thread and just pull it through. If you miss and don't catch it before the end of the spool, the plastic tubes can be a real pain to pull the thread through... we use a piece of weedwacker line with a notch cut into the end to pull the thread through the tubes, then manually pull through all the gates, tensioners, etc...


I have a 15-needle SWF. To get the thread through those tubes I thread an old needle, pull the thread out more than twice the length of the tube, loosen the tube and drop needle and thread through. then the tube goes back on its holder and I carry on manually, as you do. Works pretty quickly.


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## NiceThreadsLLC (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm a fan of using canned air to blow the thread through the tube. A quick blast sends the end straight through. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## custom23 (Jan 23, 2015)

If you are just getting into embroidery I agree with what has already been said in many of the responses, a used machine is the most cost effective way to go. I bought a used Happy single head 15 needle 3 years ago and I have had great success with it. It has beautiful stitch quality it runs caps flawlessly. And I got it for about half the price of a new Tajima. It is also user friendly and manuals are easy to understand. You can check on theinternet for various companies that deal in used equipment and probably find a local dealer. Good luck.


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