# the best color Separation software available?



## Quismo (Jan 27, 2015)

Does anyone know of a good color separation software? One that works quickly and accurately? I have heard of QuickSeps/UltraSeps, but it just seems like you have to have too much "on press" experience to get consistent good results?


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Don't know if you've done a forum search, but you'll get an immediate answer if you do. And they'll range all over the place from learning manually-- Mitch Different's book on separating, Separation Studio, T-Seps, Ultra Seps, Simple Seps/Simple Seps Raster, Corel Draw, Photoshop, Illustrator, Inkscape, Gimp and a few others. And that there's no definitive "best" some will work "better" than others and all require varying degrees of tweaking and adjusting.

Oh, and jobbing out to a professional separator.


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## IMAGESEPS (Dec 28, 2007)

Outside of hiring me to do your seps... This is the best software I've come across. 

Spot Process Separation Studioâ„¢

There is still much tweaking that needs to go into a file after using a rip like this, but this gives you the best starting point.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

out of all the software Tygeron mentions, Separation Studio is the one to avoid. If geared so you have to but their overpriced inks and the results are poor unless you tweak the crap out of it. I have ownedit. I own everything that Tygeron mentions. Mitch's Book has a lot of insight and I have learned to apply some of it to other separation methods. out of everything I own I use the Simple Seps Bundle the most, Simple Seps4 has a terrific Rip with it and simple seps raster has done a great job on most everything I throw at it. Each of these programs have their plus and minus points though. 

There is no substitution though for on press experience and knowing what works for you and your process/skill set.


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## proto (Oct 13, 2008)

sben763 said:


> out of all the software Tygeron mentions, Separation Studio is the one to avoid. If geared so you have to but their overpriced inks


Really? Who is "they"? The makers of the software recommend specific pantone colors, but afaik "they" don't sell ink or recommend a specific brand of ink. 

SPSS Link 2


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

proto said:


> Really? Who is "they"? The makers of the software recommend specific pantone colors, but afaik "they" don't sell ink or recommend a specific brand of ink.
> 
> SPSS Link 2


Check their 2 biggest distributors, they sell spot process separation studio ink, once made by Excalibur and now made by International Coatings. they use to have on their site also

edit here is a link http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/spot-process-software-kit-with-ink-sep-studio Any reputable company would let a place like Ryonet degrade their product. Like the lies they tell in the Accurip video. Outright lies


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

proto said:


> Really? Who is "they"? The makers of the software recommend specific pantone colors, but afaik "they" don't sell ink or recommend a specific brand of ink.
> 
> SPSS Link 2


 
Plus the software plain sucks


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## sarvdeep73 (Nov 3, 2008)

The software that you are comforable using is the best. You should have knowledge about colors. The best would be mixing in house to be able get the desired on press results.

Sent from my SM-N750 using T-Shirt Forums


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## Quismo (Jan 27, 2015)

Okay cool you guys have given me quite a few places to begin my search..as I am learning the color separation process, what are some of the pit falls I should look out for? Being as on all their respective sites they all claim to be the fastest, most accurate or require the least amount of post process editing? And do any of them offer trial versions so I can make an educated investment in effort to gain the maximum return on money spent?


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## Quismo (Jan 27, 2015)

I've done some looking around. does anyone have any experience using RapidSeps?


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## HotRodKristina (Feb 2, 2015)

I swear by MySeps.com - every job we've sent to him has printed beautifully. Sometimes outsourcing helps a ton.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Quismo said:


> I've done some looking around. does anyone have any experience using RapidSeps?


I would seriously stay away. Norm use to have that Mark Coudray approves his product on his website. After Mark was told about the claims they were removed shortly after. I challenged Norm to put his product against the others I own and use. He accepted and then retracted saying he couldn't win. I have the emails and PM's to prove the claim.

I own Ultra Seps, T-seps, Simple Seps both Smart Rip4 and Raster, a few by Steve Yates, Wilflex(cant use anymore due to not working on updated software) I had Separation Studio, , I know I am forgetting 1 or 2. 

What is your intensions? simulated process?, spot colors?, 4 color process(CMYK) 

I can tell what I use and what works best for me but as you can see there is a wide range of opinions. I can tell you which had the highest ROI. Each one of these programs has taught me a few things, the only thing Separation Studio taught me was to save my money.

I use 1 of these programs 90% of the time, I use 2 others 5% of the time combined and 5% of the time totally manual. Its honestly tough to say how you may fair with any of them, yes the separations are important but if you don't have exposure to registration to printing techniques down the program you use doesn't matter.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

sben763 said:


> ...I know I am forgetting 1 or 2.


 What about Wilflex Easy Art/2?

And ever use Square Dot?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

TYGERON said:


> What about Wilflex Easy Art/2?
> 
> And ever use Square Dot?


Oops. I put Wilcom embroidery software when I meant Wilflex. That the one that won't run on newer software. Was a great program. Edited above 

Never used what you linked to. If you were referring to a square dot, I have done a few index which were square. I need to revisit that while I'm slow but the dang Indiana weather my shop water broke last year and I ran a temp line. Have to drain when done and when it's blistering cold like tonight it freezes in 15-20 min if not used. Soon as it thaws running new line like I said I was going to do last Spring.


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## bluemoon (Feb 8, 2009)

the best software out there (as I understand) and probably the only one that will work with no to minimal adjustments is sold Mark Coudray and is $15K. 

We currently use Ultraseps or sep by hand. If the software does not produce usable results I separate by hand. More complicated jobs go to Dot Tone Dan. Myseps (Scott) comes highly recommended, too.

Only way to learn to get good seps is to spend time doing it. Start with pro separated files, learn from them and then start slowly working on your own. 

pierre


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## ukracer (Feb 11, 2010)

Quismo said:


> Does anyone know of a good color separation software? One that works quickly and accurately? I have heard of QuickSeps/UltraSeps, but it just seems like you have to have too much "on press" experience to get consistent good results?


Speak to Tom about simpleseps...advancedtshirts.com - advancedtshirts.com


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## PickItStickIt (Sep 20, 2013)

We actually use Gerber Omega. Seems to work well enough and plays nice with all of our equipment.


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## DavidLRobison (Feb 3, 2015)

I do color seps for a number of customers. Your welcome to contact me about doing them for you. I usually charge around $100 to do simulated color seps that you can then print from illustrator or older versions of photoshop. The new Creative suite photoshop won't print channel seps so you would need to print from an older version of photoshop or place the sep file (provided as DCS file) into illustrator and go from there.
I also will generate film for you for $12 a plate up to 16x20 if you need it. My seps work as well as any on the market and since i'm the cheapest I have heard of I can be a great source for you if you choose to outsource. I do them in an older version of photoshop that retains correct preview, although what I send you for film will not preview in newer versions of photoshop correctly it will make correct film. 

From my experience Spot Process is pretty good, but his program won't allow you to add special colors like metallic or florescent spot colors. My sep files will be accurate and functional with little or no leg work. I specify print order, PMS colors and mesh counts on my seps.

Thanks
David

Atlanta Screenprints


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## Paulprint (Jul 19, 2013)

I've said this before and I'll say it again, UltraSeps is the best choice on color sep programs by far. Not just with me but this seems to be the general consensus among skilled printers who you don't usually find posting to newbie forums. So take that for what its worth.

Not only does it do a decent job (better than anything else) right out of the gate, but it does a ton of things and its cheap. The grayscale separations it does which I use all the time are fantastic. Plus if you have a question the guy who wrote it gets right back to you a major plus.

Granted, if someone happens to be clueless or has almost no Photoshop skills, I don't think any sep program is an immediate answer to your problem but you'll need to start somewhere and something like Ultraseps or even something else that runs in Photoshop will teach you a lot. I also think its important to stick with things that work in Photoshop and avoid standalones or anything else. In Photoshop anything and any adjustment is possible.

I have a few other programs including sep studio and rarely if ever use them. If I didn't get sep studio for free from a buddy that was closing his shop I would have never bought it as it just doesn't work well and the screen previews of the seps can't be trusted (at all). I found that out quick when bringing a few seps from it into Photoshop.

For a RIP I use Accurip. Its easy and gets the job done. Okay support with them too if I run into problems which I did when upgrading the system on a newer Mac. No bells and whistles, just a good solid RIP that works. I've read good things about the Filmmaker RIP and I buddy of mine swears by it. Doesn't seem as cut and dry as Accurip but I'm thinking about getting it.


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## bluemoon (Feb 8, 2009)

Paulprint said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again, UltraSeps is the best choice on color sep programs by far. Not just with me but this seems to be the general consensus among skilled printers who you don't usually find posting to newbie forums. So take that for what its worth.
> 
> Not only does it do a decent job (better than anything else) right out of the gate, but it does a ton of things and its cheap. The grayscale separations it does which I use all the time are fantastic. Plus if you have a question the guy who wrote it gets right back to you a major plus.
> 
> ...


unless you are really interested in best halftone quality, you will not see a big difference with FilmMaker. The dots and transitions are cleaner, but not enough to ditch AR and switch. If buying a new RIP, FM is the way to go.

As far as Ultraseps, I can't tell that is that much different from the other programs I tried. They all seem to get you most of the way and then require adjustments. US was on sale and I wanted to support the creator so I bought it. It has been a good purchase as it has on occasion save us a bunch of time. Since they all seem to have some shortcomings, my guess is that once you get used to a particular program you'll know which changes to make and eventually get pretty good at it. US does have few additional features that might come in handy, but to be honest, I only use SIM3 and have not even tried the other stuff.

pierre 

pierre


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## Paulprint (Jul 19, 2013)

bluemoon said:


> unless you are really interested in best halftone quality, you will not see a big difference with FilmMaker. The dots and transitions are cleaner, but not enough to ditch AR and switch. If buying a new RIP, FM is the way to go.
> 
> As far as Ultraseps, I can't tell that is that much different from the other programs I tried. They all seem to get you most of the way and then require adjustments. US was on sale and I wanted to support the creator so I bought it. It has been a good purchase as it has on occasion save us a bunch of time. Since they all seem to have some shortcomings, my guess is that once you get used to a particular program you'll know which changes to make and eventually get pretty good at it. US does have few additional features that might come in handy, but to be honest, I only use SIM3 and have not even tried the other stuff.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on the Sim 3 of UltraSeps. When doing simulated process I normally go for that first and then maybe use the custom color action to pull something else I might need. A few adjustments here and there and I'm usually good to go. You really need to try the grayscale sep, you'll like it. I've gotten some tremendous results with it and have never gotten remotely close to duplicating similar grayscale channels manually.

Thanks for the advice on Filmmaker. I'll probably take a trip to my buddy's shop and check it out further before forking over the bucks. If there's not a huge difference I'll save the cash for now. It hasn't exactly been too busy lately.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

sben763 said:


> Never used what you linked to. If you were referring to a square dot, I have done a few index which were square.


 Ahh, the software was called Screenprint Separator by Squaredot

Looked for it. Guess it's defunct.


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## DavidLRobison (Feb 3, 2015)

Hey Bluemoon, i've seen your recently posted work, it's very clean and nice. Do you do your own seps like I do or are you using Mark Coudrays sep program? I've had a bug about Mark for a number of years, I actually paid to hear his presentation at an SGIA even years ago when he was talking about Stochastic dots. It was back in 1993 0r 4 and after watching his very well documented test results and what looked like pretty good seps for the industry he came out at the end and told everyone in the seminar that the only way we could achieve those results were to pay him to sep for us. Later in that same seminar I met the software programmer for CalComp (Bill) who was introducing their thermal film setter. He was the guy who wrote the algorythems (spelled wrong i'm sure) for the first in machine stochastic dot output options. We bought the $7000 dollar cal comp printer and the $20k Sunspark 20 to rip to it and were off to the races printing 36" wide film for boxer short panels. The Calcomp thermal filmsetter for all its costs had a really hard time holding registration from one plate to another (still does) and the thermal heads are outrageously expensive to replace with has to be done ever year or two. There are still a few thermal setters out there I think OYO has a couple but they are so expensive compared to inkjet film and just not long lasting due to the heat of a print shop changing the tint of stored film.


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## bluemoon (Feb 8, 2009)

Hey David,

we use Dot Tone Dan (Dan Campbell) for about 20% of our work, another 20-30% is run through the UltraSeps and we separate the rest by hand. The most difficult jobs go to Dan as I am still pretty new at this, and while doing OK, it's hard to beat somebody with almost 30 years of separating experience.

The Blood Moon print is a hybrid, background is in regular AM halftone and the vampire is done with a stochastic (FM) dot at 280dpi (yes, dpi!). Photoshop does stochastic now, so yes, times have changed. Same with the thermal printers. Our 4800 is a much better choice. 

pierre


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## DavidLRobison (Feb 3, 2015)

Gotcha, does Dan send you film too or just the sep files to print? I might be another source for your seps if your interested.


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## bluemoon (Feb 8, 2009)

DavidLRobison said:


> Gotcha, does Dan send you film too or just the sep files to print? I might be another source for your seps if your interested.


thanx Dave! I'll keep you in mind, but Dan and I go back long ways and are even business partners in another venture. He's been to the shop multiple times and knows our press and ink. That makes our life a little easier.

We are running EPSON 4800s here for the film. I've spent a lot of time testing films, inks, printers and RIPs before settling on what we have now. We have a lot of measuring equipment here, in some cases even more than the manufacturers, so our film output is linearized to within 1-2%. 

pierre


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## sgsellsit (Jul 31, 2008)

We use Separation Studio. It is a little higher than some of the others but it is good. We are able to separate and print designs that most printers around here won't touch. It does have a little learning curve but once you use it a couple of times it is easy.


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## Yuvaraj (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi check this link Color separation software for screen printers | Digital Desk Solutions


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Yuvaraj said:


> Hi check this link Color separation software for screen printers | Digital Desk Solutions


 $795 is a bit more than most others.

Do you use it? If so, for how long?

Give some details on what kind of seps you do and can 

you post some photos of actual prints you've done?


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## zilos452 (Feb 10, 2015)

We use Spot Process. have had great results using it.


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## dial911forme (Sep 22, 2014)

I am still impressed with Tom at advancedartist.com Not only do I get great seps but the utilities and automated things that come with it is great! Need to select 1120 items that are red? No problem with Simple Seps! It's a great value!

And you don't need and expensive rip! It rips right in the program!


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Plus the included RIP that does interlocking halftones. I use Tom's on most of my seps. The raster also does a great job. Every time there is an update it only gets better.


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## dial911forme (Sep 22, 2014)

I have a lot to learn for the raster but I'm excited for the possibilities it opens up.


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## monsterpress (Mar 29, 2014)

I'd sub it out to a professional separator (charge your customer an artwork fee). It ends up saving you a lot of time in the long run, & will produce a better final print.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

monsterpress said:


> I'd sub it out to a professional separator (charge your customer an artwork fee). It ends up saving you a lot of time in the long run, & will produce a better final print.


Not always. I have on several occasions had jobs separated by some very respected separators. Because these separators don't know your capabilities it's not always best. Plus to stay competitive learning to seperate either with a program or manually can be a very quick process thus allowing you to make more money in house.


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## monsterpress (Mar 29, 2014)

sben763 said:


> Not always. I have on several occasions had jobs separated by some very respected separators. Because these separators don't know your capabilities it's not always best. Plus to stay competitive learning to seperate either with a program or manually can be a very quick process thus allowing you to make more money in house.


We do have to tweak provided seps, so it's good to know the difference between how something will look in photoshop & how it will print. Then you can adjust accordingly. Teaching yourself to separate artwork manually to the level that's provided by professionals will take a fair bit of trial & error. I've never been a big believer in separation software, manual seps will always be better, IMO.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

monsterpress said:


> We do have to tweak provided seps, so it's good to know the difference between how something will look in photoshop & how it will print. Then you can adjust accordingly. Teaching yourself to separate artwork manually to the level that's provided by professionals will take a fair bit of trial & error. I've never been a big believer in separation software, manual seps will always be better, IMO.


First that's why I quit using Photoshop as its previews are geared towards paper printing. as anyone I have ever sent seps to if they have had to tweak the seps, there are a few threads where members have posted print from seps it did from software. 

Actually manual separation isn't as difficult as it seems. I read Mitch Different's book and used what the separation software's at the time where producing to quickly learn, not everyone will pick up on the process as easily though. Today I still use what was learned years ago and apply it today with newer methods of separation.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t436794-5.html#post2474057 Here's a sep I did for a member that posted the result, I halftoned and did dot gain compensation, I didi use a common compensation for most manual printers


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## RapidSeps (Sep 21, 2014)

sben763 said:


> I would seriously stay away.
> Norm use to have that Mark Coudray approves his product on his website.
> After Mark was told about the claims they were removed shortly after.
> I challenged Norm to put his product against the others I own and use.
> ...


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Yes I have. Not product bashing, simplly giving my opinion. My point was YOU NEVER HAD PERMISSION TO SAY MARK ENDOSED YOUR PRODUCT. yes you posted the email and then had the mods remove. You took someone's words out of context and then tried to use for your personal gain. It is why your claim was removed. Oh yea the screen shots that the other member posted of his conversation with mark proved you didn't have permission. Ok going to dig up the email where you said "I can't win"


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Attached is a screen shot of a email Norm sent me Id be more then happy to share the entire email with anyone that wants it. below is the statement from norm for easy reading but below is a snip of the screen shop of the actual email

Hi Sean,
This sir why I don't want anything to do with this! I CAN'T WIN!!!!
Sean you are already suggesting that I have something to hide by not participating?
Changing my mind is not an indicator of some kind of guilt.

Norm also attached is a zip file you may recognize, don't tell me I haven't tried it, and don't tell me that I said something you didn't, I have nothing to hide and don't put words in others mouths like someone else


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## gatorGRAFIX (Mar 11, 2015)

Doesn't take long to find out who the drama queen is in here does it? LOL!

Don't get mad, just stating my opinion.


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## RapidSeps (Sep 21, 2014)

Mark and I are cool. Whatever the reasons or discussions Mark and I had … we are cool.
There is no issue. We had business discussions for almost a year ...
Hi Sean,
This sir why I don't want anything to do with this! I CAN'T WIN!!!!
Sean you are already suggesting that I have something to hide by not participating?
Changing my mind is not an indicator of some kind of guilt.

*Nothing wrong with me saying "I can't win" in the context I used it.* 
You presented my statement out of context. (as if RapidSeps could not win)
I am finished with your vicious attack on me and RapidSeps.
All I ever did was change my mind about a "Sep Off"!

MARK COUDRAY
I think going into something as confrontational as a “Sep Off” is not in your best interest. 
It is not a level playing field and you have already discovered the “bullies in the school yard.” 
What makes you think it would be a fair fight? 
I guarantee you it would not be and all you’ll get out of it is beat up and your ego bashed. 
Not worth it.

OK. So you checked out RapidSeps. I was mistaken.
Mark Coudray does not share your opinion of RapidSeps … IMPORTANT!!!
SBEN does not recommend it … NOT IMPORTANT!!!


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

I am up for a test no problem on my end what so ever. But let’s do this scientifically and of course being a professor I am sure you can understand taking this approach.

We can run a test or test images that checks hue, saturation, brightness, greys, tints and shades of the original against the separation results. We have some test images that will prove the metal of any separation program. We don't even need to print the shirts to test the separations because color is digital we can just test separations and look at the mathematical results. If we think the mathematical results are worthy of actual print tests then we can proceed with print tests. 

The only reason I would think that Mark would suggest you avoid such test is perhaps he knows you won’t pass the test. And being a gentlemen perhaps he is just being kind. 

So after all your talk Professor Norman what do you think? I mean you are the Professor of screen printing at a major university. Can you pass the test?

Edit - We can also test T-Seps, Ultra Seps and Separation Studio and anything anyone else thinks can do color separtions. I am all in!


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## RapidSeps (Sep 21, 2014)

Not sure why we need all the ridicule Tom? 
_The only reason I would think that Mark would suggest you avoid such test is perhaps he knows you won’t pass the test. And being a gentlemen perhaps he is just being kind._
*You don't seriously believe this!!! This is why Mark says … stay away!!!*
I respectfully suggest you email Mark to clear this up for yourself!
*TO BE CLEAR:* I intend to follow Mark's advice ...

I have tested all the major players … I am sure you have too ...


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## FullSpectrumSeps (Aug 2, 2012)

"The best color separation software available?"

It's not even a close race, or a fair contest. 

You really can't put any of them in the same class of program.

For my purposes in which I work as a high-end artist, professional color separator, and a screenprinter, I am only satisfied with the accuracy, reliability, performance, efficiency, and perfection of my own separation program developments. 

I created my own tools because I needed them, because nothing else actually gets it right from the beginning to the end, from the treatment of the original art to the color-blend extractions you may want or need, to the halftone rip combinations and options, the choke and trap and combination-functions of separations and halftones, and all of the actual previewing capabilities and procedures required to simulate what you're going to get on press and be able to count on it.

There is just no comparison that could be apples to apples among them except if someone understands how to approach truly scientific methods when making the tests and analyzing the results of each stage of the process and what each program is supposed to do at those stages.

There actually is a logical way to go about extracting the ingredients of an image into the colors needed to re-combine together in printing... and that is all the job is as a pre-press technician and printer: No matter what the image, you can reproduce it to a point that is about as good as any current technology in print and ink will allow, provided you have the right separations and RIP to go along with it all. 

Ask yourself this question:
Do you think maybe the best separation software is the one actually created by a modern-day graphic artist, professional manual and automation-assisted color separator (that developed those automations), and a master screenprinter? 

For me it is not a matter of thought or opinion, it is simply a fact and I prove it more and more every day as there is no image or artwork that comes my way that will be "difficult" to separate or screenprint. It's easy and fun and amazing when you actually have all the elements of a good separation and halftone rip at your fingertips, a whole toolkit for all the scenarios you may encounter as an artist-separator-printer or any one of those, ready to cut through all the clutter in a single click even, and just get on to making your films and screens... or to have the features and functions needed to get in really deep on the manual side... whether fully automated or manual-automation-assisted, it is just a whole paradigm-shift when you have the right tools for these tasks. 

Count me in if there is actually going to be some objective comparisons, without deception and with the scientific method applied to test them all. 

Comparative advertising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I will give a free copy of the Full-Spectrum Separator's Toolkit (with more features and sep-scenarios and improvements being added continuously) to anyone who is sincere in wanting to put it to the test and put it to use in their shop, and I will personally train on how to use it as the video training is not shared with the public but only the end-users. 

I won't be showing much about it or anything in the public concerning these things until I have finalized the latest developments and additional features, and when the current Photoshop CC 2014 html5 conversion is completed. If you have Photoshop CS6 preferably with the latest point updates, or Photoshop CC Pre-2014, it will work just fine although I will assist the installation and setup procedures. With Adobe Creative Cloud you can install the previous versions easily. 

I would not make a post such as this if I were trying to self-promote for the sake of sales on my photoshop plugin, I don't have links in my signature pointing to it on the web, it is worth it if you actually know what it does and can find it, but I don't expect anyone to really know color separations and screenprinting the way I do. Plus I am still giving it away free to be sep/rip/print-tested until all the pieces are finalized into place from some of the last round of testing with various print shops around the world. The final touches are all falling into place, and getting feedback with something that can be used as a full-version and without a trial-end-date, as well as having a lot of contact and supporting the learning curve in such a paradigm shift of so many advancing techniques is all much more important to me than anything else. I gave all the opportunity and time (and plenty of free information on the advanced methods) needed for the other separation program developers to show they deserve to be called industry standards or whatever marketing tricks they use, but even with the updates and new versions, even with totally new players coming around touting theirs as the greatest, they have all still missed it completely... even just using default settings in photoshop that are wrong when the correct defaults are just a few options away... but why should you pay hundreds for what you already have default in photoshop? You should be paying for the advanced automation and precision of doing these things correctly from the beginning, and getting features and functions not provided as tools or effects or filters already within the main application. 

This is science, not "Battle of the Color-Sep-Gods", so perhaps you have to see it to believe it rather than just take a leap of faith on others opinions, although it is great when users can offer their own objective reasons that they would choose one program over another, but often it is arbitrary and subjective when it really should not be. And because it is a science, it can be repeated and proven time and again. Every type of separation can be calibrated down to an exacting precision and repeated, from art adjustment to separation to rip to the screens and the press, and automated as a single-click-operation for that particular scenario. I would be willing to develop customized solutions for a particular user or shop depending on their needs beyond the toolkit set. 

All the drama is really unnecessary and I sincerely apologize for contributing to it in the past on these and other forums. It is sad that we cannot simply mature as an industry of professionals and co-operate in service to all the separators and printers out there who have probably given up on the idea that automation can do anything for them, as I once did trying to use the existing programs and options going back 4 or 5 years and more... because in the real professional separation arena the programs are a total joke.... again that is why I had to formulate my own set of tools based on the logical aspect of repeating and automating what should always be done the same for a particular desired scenario, and leaving the human decisions only to those things that actually require your input or preference. 

Feel free to contact me in private message or by phone, skype or e-mail if you want to be involved in the testing and have the toolkit installed into your photoshop.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

When you step back in, you step hardcore 

Welcome back.


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

RapidSeps said:


> Not sure why we need all the ridicule Tom?
> _The only reason I would think that Mark would suggest you avoid such test is perhaps he knows you won’t pass the test. And being a gentlemen perhaps he is just being kind._
> *You don't seriously believe this!!! This is why Mark says … stay away!!!*
> I respectfully suggest you email Mark to clear this up for yourself!
> ...


If you did tests then what are you concerned about? Concerning your question relating to Mark. I do not know Mark but in my opinion any Engineer or Professor would be open to the scientific methodical testing of any business process. Color separations are critical process in the the screen printing business.

It is just a test we process some images and compare the results. The results are either correct or incorrect. Nothing difficult or magical about it.


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## RapidSeps (Sep 21, 2014)

Thanks for your input Tom. *TO BE CLEAR:* I intend to follow Mark's advice ...
All I want is the right to suggest RapidSeps to the 'simulated curious'…
(along with of course UltraSeps, SimpleSeps, Separation Studio and T-Seps)
without being threatened, without endless dialogue and without being ridiculed or beat up …
let's give it a try. thanks.


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## FullSpectrumSeps (Aug 2, 2012)

RapidSeps said:


> Thanks for your input Tom. *TO BE CLEAR:* I intend to follow Mark's advice ...
> All I want is the right to suggest RapidSeps to the 'simulated curious'…
> (along with of course UltraSeps, SimpleSeps, Separation Studio and T-Seps)
> without being threatened, without endless dialogue and without being ridiculed or beat up …
> let's give it a try. thanks.


 It doesn't matter whether you agree to a comparison of your separation program's methods against others or not.

It is open to comparative analysis and the Federal Trade Commission encourages this so that consumers can make educated decisions about their potential purchases. 

It is not a subjective thing, this can all be objectively studied and without any ridicule or drama. 

However, with statements like "All I want is the right to suggest RapidSeps to the 'simulated curious'" --- it seems more like all you want to do on the forum is self-promote or "self-suggest" your product as a marketing technique? So if your program can do what you claim it can do, then why would you be unwilling to stand behind it and back up your claims? 

If you are a professor of screenprint at a university, why do you need a technical adviser from the screenprint industry? I can tell you any time that a potential new employee of graphics or separation or screenprint says they learned it in highschool or college, they go to the bottom of the stack because they have more misinformation and damage done to their understanding which needs to be reversed in order to actually train them how it works in the real world, in the professional industry, and it is far removed from what goes on in the academic level, way beyond it... you may think that you have something special within your own worldview and that is fine, but this is science and not a game. 

Either way, with all of your self-promotion and unproven claims that RapidSeps is the best, and especially if we are to take "college professor of screenprint" seriously, (No actual print shop would ever hire you as a color separator or printer to be completely honest), but even still, your program should be held to a higher standard then should it not? It will be exposed in the light of science and reason and the results compared just like all the others, publicly and in open forums, videos and printing tests for all to see. You can choose to not participate or show what your methods or product features can do, but that does not preclude others - even other separation software developers - from making the comparisons and showing it, even as advertising and marketing if one so chooses. 

This helps the consumer in the end to make a fair and unbiased decision about what product or tool they should use or purchase. 

Why would you be opposed to an objective and honest, scientific and repeatable comparison-study?? This is printing, the whole thing is about taking an original and making reproductions, over and over, the same way - repeating it. But again, the comparisons and tests and public "sep-offs" will be shown whether you "agree" to it yourself or not. 

"Repeatability is a measure of a system's consistency to achieve identical results across multiple tests. The ultimate goal is to have both a highly accurate and highly repeatable system."

Repeatability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## RapidSeps (Sep 21, 2014)

_If you are a professor of screenprint at a university, 
why do you need a technical adviser from the screenprint industry?_ 
*Two heads are better than one?* Why do you need friends?
thanks for your input FSS.


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## FullSpectrumSeps (Aug 2, 2012)

RapidSeps said:


> _If you are a professor of screenprint at a university,
> why do you need a technical adviser from the screenprint industry?_
> *Two heads are better than one?* Why do you need friends?
> thanks for your input FSS.


Yes, two knowledgeable and experienced heads are better than one, and that is exactly why Tom and I have accomplished so much in this area with the research and development we have been doing together for the last 10 years. 

Mark and I also communicate on many of these things, I first approached Mark with my separation methods back in 2011, and although I decided to work with Tom on the SimpleSeps Raster project for Corel, I still continue to have professional discussions with Mark on the further developments and techniques of the industry. Mark has said many things to me about my methods and techniques and software, but I don't go around trumpeting it publicly, because it is the proof with evidence that shows any of these things and not some endorsement by an industry figure no matter how brilliant or experienced they are. 

Two heads could be the same as one if they both agree on all aspects of a logical procedure, or they could be worse off by both disagreeing completely... 3 heads might be better than one, or two, but often with these matters you are now going back to arbitration and opinion and subjective phenomena, in which case perhaps 2 heads or 1 head can be better than 4 or 5, depending on the sum of the parts being greater than the whole.

Your attempt to logically answer the question with math relating to human mind-combinations is clearly misplaced, but I believe it is because you don't comprehend the distinction between objective and subjective phenomena?

Consider the following... 

"Logic is valid in the material world, and mathematics is reliable when limited in its application to physical things; but neither is to be regarded as wholly dependable or infallible when applied to life problems. Life embraces phenomena which are not wholly material. Arithmetic says that, if one man could shear a sheep in ten minutes, ten men could shear it in one minute. That is sound mathematics, but it is not true, for the ten men could not so do it; they would get in one another’s way so badly that the work would be greatly delayed.

Mathematics asserts that, if one person stands for a certain unit of intellectual and moral value, ten persons would stand for ten times this value. But in dealing with human personality it would be nearer the truth to say that such a personality association is a sum equal to the square of the number of personalities concerned in the equation rather than the simple arithmetical sum. A social group of human beings in co-ordinated working harmony stands for a force far greater than the simple sum of its parts.

Quantity may be identified as a fact, thus becoming a scientific uniformity. Quality, being a matter of mind interpretation, represents an estimate of values, and must, therefore, remain an experience of the individual."

Please let us stop confusing the discussion of material factors of a quantitative process with the experiential factors of a qualitative phenomena.


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

Seems like we are the only ones that are not afraid to be put to the test.  Well it is what it is.


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## dial911forme (Sep 22, 2014)

I think there is a need for more fiber in some diets...


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## jgabby (Mar 29, 2007)

bluemoon said:


> the best software out there (as I understand) and probably the only one that will work with no to minimal adjustments is sold Mark Coudray and is $15K.
> pierre



This is only ICISS COCO, with Mark formula input. 
Anyone cleaver can create its own formula and input them, and have the same level of separation, and it will cost you 1/3 of this.


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## digitizewedo (Nov 2, 2010)

Depending on the source of the file and how its going to be applied I have several programs at my disposal..

If i have a vector file with blends, or spot colors I will often use the program for corel draw to separate the colors. I use a program called "Simple Seps" from Advanced T-shirts advancedtshirts.com - advancedtshirts.com

If I have a high resolution jpeg or a vector file that too complicated to separate I use Rapidseps program. This allows me to use simulated process or spot color printing, discharge prints, generate white bases and more. I use a program called "RapidSeps" Rapid Seps , RapidSeps | Simulated Process Color Separation Software this program. 

I also use accurip to print my films on an epson 1430 and 13x19 films. 

Frank Prokator
Steel Town Graphics


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## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

FullSpectrumSeps said:


> Count me in if there is actually going to be some objective comparisons, without deception and with the scientific method applied to test them all.
> 
> I will give a free copy of the Full-Spectrum Separator's Toolkit (with more features and sep-scenarios and improvements being added continuously) to anyone who is sincere in wanting to put it to the test and put it to use in their shop, and I will personally train on how to use it as the video training is not shared with the public but only the end-users.


A few thoughts in random order...

Trash talk in the color separation world.. who knew? 

I like the idea of a scientific test. The problem is, respectfully, you're trying to thumb the scale a bit above. If you're willing to give private training unavailable to the public and your competition is unable or unwilling to do that, your product will look better. -- *Now I know* you did not mean to 'game the system', you're showing your willingness to compete head to head, but I'm sure you see my point. To be scientific is to eliminate such variables.

In a perfect test you'd hand all the products unlabeled to someone who had never used any of the products before etc etc etc.. (see also wikipedia double blind experiment) You'll never get perfect but perhaps you can get close.

Many years ago, I taught color separation to offset printers. So spot color and CYMK are old news for me. I'm just moving my business into the screen printing world and simulated process is fascinating. The theory is easy enough if you've printed CYMK and blended 2 spot colors to make a 3rd color but I've never used any of the tools mentioned in this thread.

I'm showing my age but many many years ago I was the first Adobe authorized trainer in my state. So I have both the background AND no bias going in.

I'd be happy to volunteer my time on the sample images posted above and write up a very detailed review of each product from a usability point of view and the seps (I guess) can speak for themselves.

I would propose 2 rounds.

Round 1 no additional training other than what is available free OR with some sort of membership that a screen printer would be likely to buy. (In other words open to the public no special treatment) And I'll produce a round of seps.

This will surly leave some of you feeling I was a fool and did not 'get' your program. Fair enough. That's why I'm proposing a second round.

Round 2 the various vendors could email/call/whatever me and offer whatever help/support they are willing to offer and I'll do the seps again.

I'll focus my reviews on ease of learning (I used to be a trainer so I know how end users think) and ease of using in a production environment; leaving the seps to stand on their own merit. 

WARNING- I'll also be explicitly fair with all parties involved. If your product sucks I'll say so. I'm tough to impress. 

One man's ideas.


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## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

AdvancedArtist said:


> Seems like we are the only ones that are not afraid to be put to the test.  Well it is what it is.


Well, not quite. Norman with Rapid Seps emails and he says he's in. (see my proposal above)

Any other takers?


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

diyjunkie said:


> Well, not quite. Norman with Rapid Seps emails and he says he's in. (see my proposal above)
> 
> Any other takers?


How does this not get removed also. If the moderators are going to moderate and remove a post relevant to this. Ok Norman hit the report bad post again.


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## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

sben763 said:


> How does this not get removed also. If the moderators are going to moderate and remove a post relevant to this. Ok Norman hit the report bad post again.


It appears something odd did happen. For those of you following along at home, one of my Sean's posts and one of mine got deleted. Sean posits Norman hit the report as bad post button. I'll keep an open mind.

Fortunately I have them backed up and will continue to post this if said "oddness" happens again.

Here's what got disappeared:



sben763 said:


> Norman always backs out I can show you several post where he is all talk till its time for action.


Sean, I have read many of your posts and respect your opinion on many things. Specifically one post you made about the various emulsions and working with each impressed me enough I look for your name when I'm reading old threads. - Having said that, this is a whole new ball game. I don't care about the drama of the past.

If the truth be told, I'm kinda unlikely to even do sim process for my business. For me this is mostly an academic pursuit done for the joy of learning. (I'm a geek) If I end up using it for real production that's more of a byproduct.

If he backs out, that will be well documented. Unless one of them writes me a 6 figure check (oh heck maybe 5 figures ) I really don't care who 'wins.'

As I said above, I'll be explicitly fair.


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## ParrotPrinting (Feb 23, 2015)

Hey Sean.....glad I asked your opinion before I saw all this......thanks again for your help


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## tern101 (Feb 21, 2008)

HotRodKristina said:


> I swear by MySeps.com - every job we've sent to him has printed beautifully. Sometimes outsourcing helps a ton.


Which of the programs do you use 90 % of the time?


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## digitizingninjas (Aug 19, 2016)

I am doing vector and color separation from 15+ years and used Corel Draw and AI


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## AdvancedArtist (Nov 23, 2006)

I am so curious you all make color separations but what do understand about color? Please enlighten me.


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## tern101 (Feb 21, 2008)

Which software do you use 90% of the time? And which two programs do you use 5% of the time?


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## LucidDavid (Jun 6, 2014)

Hi!
I'm David Lewis with Lucid Dream and we specialized in trapping software for the commercial print industry for many years. These past few years I have spent a lot of time working in the Garment industry and during this time we have done some preliminary work with our I-Trap software to add features for garment and screen industry. 

One new feature is called "Contouring" which allows art in individual inks to be contoured around the edges to either extend(fatten) or shrink (thin). One example might be selecting an underbase color and expanding it outside the area of the design or to thin it underneath the design. 

Another new feature we are working with now is separation control - hence this thread. We have the ability to split or merge or delete existing inks as well as the ability to create new inks based on existing ones. For example to create an underbase.

I-Trap is one of the oldest trapping packages going back to 89 and is able to do some incredible trapping of very complex work in a fully automatic fashion - though it also has a nice interactive mode as well. It is Mac or PC and is rip based. 

I would love to get some feedback if anyone here would like to give it a try just PM me please.


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## flitgit (Jun 15, 2018)

I used Aveco Easyart when I was a graphic designer for a screenprint company. It is an extremely versatile and easy to use program, we used to do 6-8 colour seps and will easily do 12 colours. The best thing about it from my point of view was the ease with which could manipulate channels. 4 colour separations are almost routine.


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## kinjal (Jun 16, 2018)

Separo is an online tool that creates separations in a matter of minutes, saving you hours of labor and hundreds of dollars spent on materials.


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