# Review of Tagless Threads - Bad experience



## whysman (Oct 1, 2010)

I have been using a couple screen printing companies to print my t-shirt designs, but wanted to try a company that could print DTG. I decided to try Tagless Threads based on what I saw on their website, a conversation I had with their customer service rep, and a decent price.

I placed my order of 5 designs of 50 shirts each (250 total) on 8/18 for DTG printing. 36 business days later I am still waiting for 100 shirts (2 designs). The blank shirts I requested were received by them on 9/9 (just over a month ago). Given my prior experience with other vendors, I thought this was an extremely long time (nothing special on sizes or colors), but I thought maybe just bad luck. 

It took over 5 weeks to get my first 150 shirts and the quality was good (not great). I was expecting a little more crisp prints with more vibrant colors than what I received. I did call them because there were errors on three shirts (well, errors on two shirts, but flat out missing another). 

In addition to my graphic on the front of the shirt, I did have them print custom tags as well (used tear-away tag shirts). When I had my initial discussions with Tagless, I was assured that the tagging process with DTG would add some time, but minimal. If I remember correctly, one day would be added to the time per design.

The one thing you will find out about Tagless is that they do not like to talk on the phone except for when they are selling you. When you send a email asking a question, they will sometimes get back to you. My experience over the last two weeks is 4 emails sent, none returned. I called last Thursday (10/6) and spoke to someone I have not previously encountered. She assured me that the remainder of my order was going to be shipped Friday (10/7) at the latest and after I received them, I was to call her back and report on any other errors for which they would reimburse me. I heard nothing on Friday, and now it is Monday (10/10) night and I have still heard nothing. 

In my experience this company has been terrible to work with. I sincerely regret placing my order with them. As I said, the print quality is ok and they did a good job on the tag (some companies don't consistently print them on the topmost part of the back of the neck area, but they did well in that regard). If they had top rate print quality I still don't know if this would be worth the frustration. 

I know that there are people from Tagless that are members of this website and I welcome their response to this situation. I have all the emails that show the lack of effort or progress on my order.

Oh - I forgot to mention,.. they apparently moved while doing my order. They never mentioned this when I asked repeatedly on how long my order might take, but then again in mid August, I was told that my shirts should ship approx. second week of Sept. I even thought this was a long time. When the first week of Sept. ended and I had concerns about the timeframe, I was told that their service level is something like 5-15 days per design, but it could take more.


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## Get Shirts (Dec 26, 2010)

Bummer of an experience. Why did you choose DTG for that quantity. Generally that is reserved for smaller runs that require multiple colors. I do not have an incredible amount of experience with DTG, but from what I have seen screen printing will still yield not only a bolder print but one who's quality will last. 

Now the inner tag print, that's cool for a DTG..


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## whysman (Oct 1, 2010)

I chose it for price... mistake.. absolute not the same quality as the screenprinting I have been using with discharge inks. I have a real good screen printer that I use and I will be sending everything his way from now on. 

As an update to my situation.. on 10/14 I received most of my remaining order. Six total misprints in my order. 15 large size shirts still remain to be delivered. 

Making matters even worse (if that is possible) they decided to short all 15 large shirts on one of the two designs instead of giving me some larges of each of the two remaining designs (shirt color is the same for the two remaining designs). So basically of 30 large shirts, all 15 were printed on one design. 

If anyone, and I mean anyone wants to know more about my experience with Tagless Threads, I would be happy to let you know everything and who I talked to. If I can save anyone the headache I have experienced, at least that will be something positive out of this.


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## crh806 (Sep 27, 2011)

whysman said:


> The one thing you will find out about Tagless is that they do not like to talk on the phone except for when they are selling you. When you send a email asking a question, they will sometimes get back to you.


I am actually going through the exact situation right now with Tagless (except I'm getting my shirts screen printed). The thing that upsets me the most is the communication factor. I've experienced no call backs and no response from emails. Even when my question is simply asking the status of my order.


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

I am a contract DTG shop, and that quantity is not necessary. The advantage of DTG is small quantity, or numerous colors, or fast turn. There are some subtle color combos a screener just can't get also. I would have bought a few of each design and watched what sold, then reordered as needed , or dumped a dead design for a fresh one. Print on demand is sweet for inventory control, fresh designs, and cash management. We turn jobs in 48 hours or less. This is the wrong tool for the job I think .


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## IamRYR (Nov 25, 2011)

My company is in the same situation as listed in the above threads. We ordered a small order of 36 hoodies on November 3rd. They told us we would receive a proof of artwork before printing started. It is now November 25th, and we never received any sort of proof. My VP has been in contact via email and phone, and last we heard, our blank hoodies were still being ordered (this was November 17th!). I've dealt with many other screen printers and it took at most 15 days to receive my full order. It's been almost 1 month now, barely any communication from this company, and I have no clue when to expect my order. We have had our clothes on our website for presale for sometime, so this company really sucks when it comes to abiding by a specified timeframe. It clearly states on our receipt that we should expect to receive our order by November 25th, however it is now clear that is impossible. When we emailed to discuss this matter, we were responded with a "that is just an estimate, please refer to our Terms of Conditions for further information." What the hell... I want to know when we can expect our order... we are the customer and we paid for these, give us an exact timeline. I feel like this company is full of excuses, a very shady experience, and I will definitely not be doing business with them after this. Definitely stick to somebody with better customer respect and interaction. Anybody else have a better experience? Because between ours and the ones I've read about, this company sucks to work with.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

whysman said:


> I have been using a couple screen printing companies to print my t-shirt designs, but wanted to try a company that could print DTG. I decided to try Tagless Threads based on what I saw on their website, a conversation I had with their customer service rep, and a decent price.
> 
> I placed my order of 5 designs of 50 shirts each (250 total) on 8/18 for DTG printing. 36 business days later I am still waiting for 100 shirts (2 designs). The blank shirts I requested were received by them on 9/9 (just over a month ago). Given my prior experience with other vendors, I thought this was an extremely long time (nothing special on sizes or colors), but I thought maybe just bad luck.
> 
> ...


Hi Steve, I have reviewed your post and had to clarify a few things. Please view the following time-line & bullet points.


.8/16 : Payment was received 

.8/21 : Artwork approvals sent

.8/28-8/31: Mock Ups were sent in an appropriate amount of time considering all 5 designs were revised 3 different times. This is 15 revisions on top of the original Mock Ups sent which were simply a cut & paste of your uploaded specifications. You noted you disliked our Order Process, yet requesting multiple revisions was the cause of delay and why it seemed to drag on.*Note: Our order process including Pre-Production as well as Production Time is explained on our site, invoice before you complete payment on an order, and Mock Up in which is it your discretion to read our policies as you did sign acknowledging that you have read & understood them.

.9/2: Approval email of all 5 signed mock ups received *Note: Upon receiving the "approvals received" email, you threatened to cancel , stating you had no prior knowledge of our 5 - 10 business day per design production time. You did sign and agree to this. We set forth our Terms of Service so we can keep the Customer informed about our policies & so they they are all aware of important aspects of the Order Process including the Production Time. If you were to read further into the Terms, you would have seen that taking up to 10 days per design is very rare & that is only instilled in case of any unforeseen events. Ashley assured you that this was a estimated amount of time and we would do what we could to accommodate you. (After your constant threats, I personally would have given you your money back because we believe in healthy & professional business relationships with our Customers, but Ashley wanted to stick with it since she already put so much time into all your revisions and she did not want to leave you hanging.)

.You demanded daily updates of when your order would ship, no update of which you were satisfied with and argued our terms and order protocol (which again you acknowledged your understanding of), also threatening to write a bad review (which you did anyways) on our company if we couldn't deliver. (please note that this is only 9 business days into the turnaround time.)

.I see numerous and constant emails and phone history where you were updated on your order status. Most of your questions were easily answered had our Order Process & Terms been reviewed. Custom T-Shirts will take time to produce quality work.

.Each of the designs were shipped out as they were finished so that you could get shirts asap. This is not in the realm of our standard protocol & we did this to accommodate you.

.I understand you had 15 garments that were "misprints" this was a matter of inventory, they were misplaced within another order during our move. Upon knowledge of this, the garments were reordered asap, printed and shipped your way asap. Our efforts to fix this situation for you only shows our compliance when we are responsible for a mistake. We have no problem admitting our faults or mistakes. On the other end of the spectrum, when we are depicted to look bad, we will say what we need to to correct the false accusations. 

.10/12 : Your last & final design was shipped. This is under our standard Production Time as stated on our terms and website. For what possible reason are we at fault that you "didn't see" our Production Time when it is listed on our website before requesting an estimate from us, on our invoice before completing payment on an order, and most importantly before you sign the Confirmation Mock Ups? Before ordering from a company, it is key that you make sure you do your research and understand their process before signing Terms of Service. On top of all of this, in our Terms, we also state that we recommend you consider a Priority Order if the order is needed by a specific deadline. We simply cannot be liable if a Customer may or may not place their order to allow for sufficient time in which is stated in our Terms.

Let me clarify : this order consisted of digital printing with custom tags at a quantity of 250 t-shirts with 5 different designs. That order is going to take time; it's a fact. I personally think you should have chosen Screen Printing for this quantity but like you said it was cheaper to go the DTG route, and that is undoubtedly your decision.

Let me quote you here:
"When I had my initial discussions with Tagless, I was assured that the tagging process with DTG would add some time, but minimal. If I remember correctly, one day would be added to the time per design."
I know my employees know better than to say that custom tags only add one day, but if this had been said it still would have been 5 to 10 business days plus 1 business day per design=11 business days times 5 designs=55 business days. We received your approvals on 9/2 your order was completed on 10/12 This equals= 28 Business days. What did we do wrong? If you had a bad experience you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

We have our terms for a reason. We enforce the Mock Up Process for good reason & we expect the customer to read our Terms before signing for them. They are not overly complex and are easy to understand. They are a half page of a contract that you agree to when doing business with us. A lot of factors can come into play and delay an order. I will admit sometimes our printing does take a little longer but it's because I really try to instill in my staff quality over quantity, I'd rather them take time on printing the order correct instead of rushing through the order and give poor quality like other shops.

With all this said I really can't understand how you could go on a forum and complain about your order as the facts are there. You should have understood this is a custom product which takes time. I surely would never pressure a printer everyday so that they rush through my order because I would want it to be the best quality possible.

To end this off on a good note, we recently added another DTG printer, an additional label printer, a new order process which allows customers to fill out and sign the order form online (No more faxing or scanning), and a new website which features much more information to educate our customers. Anytime an issue is presented, whether we are at fault or not, we will take the proper measures to rise above & use what we have learned and put it to use to grow & evolve our Company.

For any of you potential Customers reading this: We have wonderful quality, a knowledgeable & passionate team, and great service. If you understand our Order Process and are willing to let us take the sufficient amount of time needed to produce high quality prints if you have a complex order, we will work great together!


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

To: Iamryr


We have two different order methods. One is quote and invoice and the other is the online designer in which you ordered through. Due to the fact that you upload/create your design online yourself, we do not provide mock ups for this order process. We are able to reduce costs for customer that order through the online designer because of this. We spoke to your partner yesterday and he seemed to be compliant and understanding with our current status. 

Thank you,
Kurt


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## whysman (Oct 1, 2010)

> .8/21 : Artwork approvals sent
> 
> .8/28-8/31: Mock Ups were sent in an appropriate amount of time considering all 5 designs were revised 3 different times. This is 15 revisions on top of the original Mock Ups sent which were simply a cut & paste of your uploaded specifications. You noted you disliked our Order Process, yet requesting multiple revisions was the cause of delay and why it seemed to drag on.*Note: Our order process including Pre-Production as well as Production Time is explained on our site, invoice before you complete payment on an order, and Mock Up in which is it your discretion to read our policies as you did sign acknowledging that you have read & understood them.


I question your account of this as it is mostly incorrect or misleading (I have the emails as well, sir). First of all, you don't think that 7-10 days for sending out mockups is long? Especially when all your company did was to take the graphic that I sent and slap it on a ghosted t-shirt image? The graphic that I sent was sized appropriately.... if it was 10" wide when I sent it, shouldn't it be shown what 10" wide would be on a mock up shirt? I do not agree that 7-10 days to do this is an "appropriate amount of time".

13 of the 15 revisions you speak of is due to your company sending a mockup, me seeing it and saying that it was still incorrect and providing the same information over and over again. The 2 legitimate revisions I did have as I changed my mind. In fact, it would have taken longer if I didn't do that job myself, and place my own images on an image of a ghosted t-shirt, with appropriate notes on sizing and placement, because your team could not seem to understand any of my concerns about this. 

A substantial amount of your rebuttal is predicated on the time wasted because of these revisions, and your account is very distorted. Also, I never, ever, once spoke with you about this (phone or email), so I find it interesting how 3.5 months later you are an expert. 


Another point that needs to be called out here, is that I talked to one of your employees on the phone when I placed my order (first line in my original post). She mentioned time frame for turnaround and that is what I was relying on. If she told me that was she was telling me was completely different than your "terms", I would not have proceeded. Bad on me for not reading in great detail your "terms", bad on you for for having a representative that utilized bait-n-switch tactics.





> .9/2: Approval email of all 5 signed mock ups received *Note: Upon receiving the "approvals received" email, you threatened to cancel , stating you had no prior knowledge of our 5 - 10 business day per design production time. You did sign and agree to this. We set forth our Terms of Service so we can keep the Customer informed about our policies & so they they are all aware of important aspects of the Order Process including the Production Time. If you were to read further into the Terms, you would have seen that taking up to 10 days per design is very rare & that is only instilled in case of any unforeseen events. Ashley assured you that this was a estimated amount of time and we would do what we could to accommodate you. (After your constant threats, I personally would have given you your money back because we believe in healthy & professional business relationships with our Customers, but Ashley wanted to stick with it since she already put so much time into all your revisions and she did not want to leave you hanging.)


You are getting slightly delusional here. My "threats" were that I was mad that I was being told one thing and then you (your company) was hiding behind your almighty "terms" when questioned. I asked why was I told something else and the "terms" specified something else. The answer I received was that the representative in question no longer worked there. I absolutely wanted to cancel but was assured that my order would not take the time specified in the "terms", as that was not really meant for DTG, but rather screen jobs (this is what I was told). I bought it, again, so lesson learned for me. For someone that claims you would have given my money back, you sure don't train your staff appropriately, because over the course of 2 days your representatives did nothing but double-talk on time frame to get me to stick with the order.



> .You demanded daily updates of when your order would ship, no update of which you were satisfied with and argued our terms and order protocol (which again you acknowledged your understanding of), also threatening to write a bad review (which you did anyways) on our company if we couldn't deliver. (please note that this is only 9 business days into the turnaround time.)
> 
> .I see numerous and constant emails and phone history where you were updated on your order status. Most of your questions were easily answered had our Order Process & Terms been reviewed. Custom T-Shirts will take time to produce quality work.
> 
> .Each of the designs were shipped out as they were finished so that you could get shirts asap. This is not in the realm of our standard protocol & we did this to accommodate you.


Really,... you see "phone history" where I was updated? That is a little odd because I did not ever receive a phone call from you that wasn't preceded by a communication from me. A phone call, or later email because your team does not seem to like to talk on the phone. I also debate "daily" updates, as I look through my emails right now, I don't see that at all.




> .I understand you had 15 garments that were "misprints" this was a matter of inventory, they were misplaced within another order during our move. Upon knowledge of this, the garments were reordered asap, printed and shipped your way asap. Our efforts to fix this situation for you only shows our compliance when we are responsible for a mistake. We have no problem admitting our faults or mistakes. On the other end of the spectrum, when we are depicted to look bad, we will say what we need to to correct the false accusations.
> 
> .10/12 : Your last & final design was shipped. This is under our standard Production Time as stated on our terms and website. For what possible reason are we at fault that you "didn't see" our Production Time when it is listed on our website before requesting an estimate from us, on our invoice before completing payment on an order, and most importantly before you sign the Confirmation Mock Ups? Before ordering from a company, it is key that you make sure you do your research and understand their process before signing Terms of Service. On top of all of this, in our Terms, we also state that we recommend you consider a Priority Order if the order is needed by a specific deadline. We simply cannot be liable if a Customer may or may not place their order to allow for sufficient time in which is stated in our Terms.


Let me call out your quote from above... "10/12 : Your last & final design was shipped." That is wrong. My last 15 (which you mention above that). was shipped out 11/7. 





> Let me clarify : this order consisted of digital printing with custom tags at a quantity of 250 t-shirts with 5 different designs. That order is going to take time; it's a fact. I personally think you should have chosen Screen Printing for this quantity but like you said it was cheaper to go the DTG route, and that is undoubtedly your decision.
> 
> Let me quote you here:
> "When I had my initial discussions with Tagless, I was assured that the tagging process with DTG would add some time, but minimal. If I remember correctly, one day would be added to the time per design."
> I know my employees know better than to say that custom tags only add one day, but if this had been said it still would have been 5 to 10 business days plus 1 business day per design=11 business days times 5 designs=55 business days. We received your approvals on 9/2 your order was completed on 10/12 This equals= 28 Business days. What did we do wrong? If you had a bad experience you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction.


You simply do NOT know your employees well enough. I was told the label would take 1 extra day unless we were not going to use tear-away tags. If your statement about knowing your employees well enough is to say I am lying, then I guess the readers of this post will know what to expect from your company. 

I had on many occasions asked to talk to the owner on this, which they deflected. This order was placed in August and you are now getting involved at the end of November? You also really think that 55 business days (which is really 18 more days considering my final order shipped 11/7 not 10/12 as you incorrectly state, so 73 business days) is legitimate turnaround for an order of 250 shirts printed on DTG?! Really? Terms or not, no other company I have been working with (before or since) would agree with that. 

I assure you, the finger of blame is pointed in the correct direction. 



> We have our terms for a reason. We enforce the Mock Up Process for good reason & we expect the customer to read our Terms before signing for them. They are not overly complex and are easy to understand. They are a half page of a contract that you agree to when doing business with us. A lot of factors can come into play and delay an order. I will admit sometimes our printing does take a little longer but it's because I really try to instill in my staff quality over quantity, I'd rather them take time on printing the order correct instead of rushing through the order and give poor quality like other shops.
> 
> With all this said I really can't understand how you could go on a forum and complain about your order as the facts are there. You should have understood this is a custom product which takes time. I surely would never pressure a printer everyday so that they rush through my order because I would want it to be the best quality possible.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, you would have been better served treating an existing customer better and not taking liberties with the facts of my order, than listing all these improvements you have made. Also, don't tell me that you do things a certain way because you are focusing on quality, because of the DTG shirts I have received from your company was good, not great (reported that in my initial post and am standing by it). 

You also failed to mention that when you shipped the first part of my order, there were 6 misprinted shirts, which I received credit for 24 days after I reported it. My second batch, there were 7 misprinted or ripped shirts (these are the ones that were sent out on 10/12). I still have not received credit for those.

If you took this time originally to work with me instead of taking the time over three and a half months later to debate me in a forum, then maybe some of this would have been mitigated. 

This forum, or any forum, is to exchange ideas and experiences. If my experiences with your company upset you, they should.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> First of all, you don't think that 7-10 days for sending out mockups is long?


I don't think that amount of time is long at all. 

Companies have more than one customer to work with at all times, so although it seems like all they need to do is take your graphic and add it to a t-shirt mockup, the fact is that there are other customers before you that also need their jobs worked on, customers that need support, etc. 

Most all companies give a lead time before mockups are sent to be able to give them enough time to accurately schedule the other jobs they have in the shop. If they said 24 hours because of the actual time it might take, that might work if they only had 1 customer, but when you have a dozen or 100's of new customers coming through the shop, it's not possible to get every mockup out the door within 24 hours, so they have to put things on a schedule.

The other issues I can't speak to, but I've seen similar turnaround times for mockups from several companies, so I thought that was worth pointing out.


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## whysman (Oct 1, 2010)

Rodney said:


> I don't think that amount of time is long at all.
> 
> Companies have more than one customer to work with at all times, so although it seems like all they need to do is take your graphic and add it to a t-shirt mockup, the fact is that there are other customers before you that also need their jobs worked on, customers that need support, etc.
> 
> ...


Rodney - I respect you as a trusted source, but that is shocking to me and not my experience with the four other companies I have been working with. 

The most one has taken is 4 business days (for 7 designs). I completely understand that shops have other customers in the queue, in various stages of production. Certainly if a shop is that busy, one would think that this would be communicated up front, but that is not what I was told. I was told that once I went through their process of uploading images, and entering the appropriate information, the turnaround time for mockups to me would be "a few days for all 5".

I still find it shocking though that you find this to be reasonable. On top of my experience (limited as it may be with only 4 others), I have received messages from others on this very forum that agree that it should not take more than a few days (unless the prints are over the whole shirt, jumbo, etc..). These were standard size print jobs. 

My skills with Illustrator & Photoshop are mediocre at best, but if I know how big the design is (sent in vector format as size to be printed) and I know how big the ghosted template is (for the size and style represented), I can do this in about 5-10 minutes per design. In fact, I had to and sent 'em back to tagless, because their mockups were not appropriately sized. 

Again, I know that there are other customers that have pending orders, and I am not going to take priority over someone who is ahead of me, but then do not clamor for the job to continue when I ask for a refund before they even placed the order for the shirts. 

If I was that busy and could not meet a customers expectations, which I made clear in my very first conversation with them (in the "terms" or not), I would refund the $. I even was ok with getting a 90% refund, but I was assured that it was going to be smooth sailing once the mockups were approved.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I still find it shocking though that you find this to be reasonable. On top of my experience (limited as it may be with only 4 others), I have received messages from others on this very forum that agree that it should not take more than a few days (unless the prints are over the whole shirt, jumbo, etc..). These were standard size print jobs.


I can only share what I've seen based on my experience. 

I don't know whether the people that messaged you were trying to gain your business by telling you shorter turnaround times (why wouldn't they just post in this thread?) or if they just had a different experience than I did. Lots of variables can come into play (how busy the shop is, whether actual production takes longer, etc)



> Certainly if a shop is that busy, one would think that this would be communicated up front, but that is not what I was told


I agree, proper communication is the most important factor here. I've always said that a custom t-shirt order should be a conversation. 

That way the printer knows what you expect and you know what the printer can deliver. 

Educating yourself on the printers terms (which is what they have to fall back on if things don't go as planned), and asking lots of questions (which is sounds like you did), is a great way to judge the printers customer service and overall capabilities.

Hopefully this all gets resolved for you. I just wanted to share my experience that 7 days for a proof is not unheard of.


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## whysman (Oct 1, 2010)

understood Rodney, thanks for the input. 

In the interest of full disclosure, if the delay (or what I perceived as a delay) in getting the proofs was the only disappointing part of this experience, it wouldn't have warranted this post. 

Regards.


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## abmcdan (Sep 14, 2007)

whysman said:


> In fact, I had to and sent 'em back to tagless, because their mockups were not appropriately sized.


Keep in mind a mockup is a rough draft of what it will look like. It isn't meant to be like a CAD drawing that is EXACTLY to scale. Because of multiple variables including different shirt sizes the final print isn't going to match a mockup.

In my experience they are to make sure everyone has the same general concept of what the finished product should be.


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## whysman (Oct 1, 2010)

abmcdan said:


> Keep in mind a mockup is a rough draft of what it will look like. It isn't meant to be like a CAD drawing that is EXACTLY to scale. Because of multiple variables including different shirt sizes the final print isn't going to match a mockup.
> 
> In my experience they are to make sure everyone has the same general concept of what the finished product should be.


Absolutely I understand that. But if the mockup shows your graphic not the right size (proportional to the shirt) and not the right location (in this case too low mostly), then it defeats the purpose of a mockup, doesn't it? 

This was not mentioned previously, but if the mockup picture received is too small to render detail (I'm not saying it has to be lifesize), then it is not very useful. I am/was not expecting that every single thing has to be perfect, but when image size, placement on the shirt, and proportions are in question, then I am going to raise concerns. 

For example, there were certain areas of a couple of the designs where I wanted the shirt color to show through, and I wanted to verify that. The image I received was hard to discern that as the image was fairly small (on a 1280 x 800 screen resolution, my image on the shirt was about 3/4 the size of a square postage stamp... and the image in real life was approx. 14" x 9")

Again, I have not had any issues with anyone else on this.


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## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

whysman said:


> Absolutely I understand that. But if the mockup shows your graphic not the right size (proportional to the shirt) and not the right location (in this case too low mostly), then it defeats the purpose of a mockup, doesn't it?
> 
> This was not mentioned previously, but if the mockup picture received is too small to render detail (I'm not saying it has to be lifesize), then it is not very useful. I am/was not expecting that every single thing has to be perfect, but when image size, placement on the shirt, and proportions are in question, then I am going to raise concerns.
> 
> ...


Image size and placement are all relative, so mock ups are only used to give a general view of what the print will look like. The image will look smaller on a XXL and bigger on a S shirt, so the customer really needs to give exact print dimensions, and placement specs (start design 3" down from bottom of neck collar). Even with these specs, the mock up will not be exact, but the notes of where to place the print will be on the work order, and the printer can align the shirts accordingly.


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## IamRYR (Nov 25, 2011)

taglessthreads said:


> To: Iamryr
> 
> 
> We have two different order methods. One is quote and invoice and the other is the online designer in which you ordered through. Due to the fact that you upload/create your design online yourself, we do not provide mock ups for this order process. We are able to reduce costs for customer that order through the online designer because of this. We spoke to your partner yesterday and he seemed to be compliant and understanding with our current status.
> ...


Hi Kurt,

Thanks for the reply. I now better understand the ordering process and the reason we did not receive a mock-up. That makes sense to me now.

The only gripe I have is the length of time it is taking to receive our order. I understand the concept of quality over quantity, and agree that I do not want to rush the process. However, we ordered these November 3rd, via the Online Designer. Therefore no mock-ups were needed (like you said), which theoretically should shorten the time of the ordering process. It is now November 30th, over 15 full business days, and you guys have still not begun printing. This order is crucial to our business as we have a partnership with a magazine that is waiting for us to ship these to them. We have not been contacted about any problems with our artwork, and I have not altered our artwork whatsoever. The only change I made was switching a PMS color, which is not time delaying. I also understand the rush order process, but I did not need these rush ordered, just within the 15 business day time frame listed in your "Terms of Service". 

I have spoken to your customer service representatives and they have told me they would make our order a priority, but I feel undervalued as the customer here. I had to be proactive to find that our order is being delayed, and then I'm told I can pay extra for expedited shipping when you are outside of your time frame.


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## Mabuzi (Jul 3, 2007)

DTG takes a longer than I expected and this then delays everything downstream. Lets not go into down time on the machines too.
I have realised that not every transaction goes smoothly in busines and you do lose clients not matter how great your service. I try hard to match expectations but try not over promise.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

IamRYR said:


> Hi Kurt,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I now better understand the ordering process and the reason we did not receive a mock-up. That makes sense to me now.
> 
> ...


Hi Michael, I appreciate you understanding the order process. You are not undervalued one bit. We appreciate your business and want to take care of you the best we can, we're just in a little slump and working hard to get out of it. My partner and I are making a lot of changes to better the flow for existing and future orders. We just hired another graphic artist and customer service manager to get the front end of our shop up to par like we want. I went ahead and issued your online account with a gift certificate to make up for any inconvenience. Trust me I know business and understand what it's like when something doesn't work or go in the path I planned for. Once again thank you for your patience and consideration. 

I had the opportunity to check out your designs and was very impressed btw.

You as a customer I would appreciate any input you have that would make you happier as a customer of Tagless Threads. Maybe a certain feature on our designer? Certain information? A better way of communication?


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## IamRYR (Nov 25, 2011)

taglessthreads said:


> Hi Michael, I appreciate you understanding the order process. You are not undervalued one bit. We appreciate your business and want to take care of you the best we can, we're just in a little slump and working hard to get out of it. My partner and I are making a lot of changes to better the flow for existing and future orders. We just hired another graphic artist and customer service manager to get the front end of our shop up to par like we want. I went ahead and issued your online account with a gift certificate to make up for any inconvenience. Trust me I know business and understand what it's like when something doesn't work or go in the path I planned for. Once again thank you for your patience and consideration.
> 
> I had the opportunity to check out your designs and was very impressed btw.
> 
> You as a customer I would appreciate any input you have that would make you happier as a customer of Tagless Threads. Maybe a certain feature on our designer? Certain information? A better way of communication?


Hi Kurt,

I have received the gift card voucher, and appreciate your effort.

However, it is unfortunate that my only communication with your company is over this forum. My partner and I have each called the customer service number almost every day this week. Once we spoke with Ashley, and twice we spoke with Nathan. All three times we were basically told that they were only answering phones to take messages and that somebody would be getting back to us.

I expressed multiple times that we NEED our order in our hands by next Friday (December 9th). This is our drop dead date and our business will take a huge hit with a prospective magazine if we do not have our main feature to our winter line (this order). You guys have had our order since November 3rd. If we cannot get our order to us by next Friday, my company, and me personally will not be happy. I think you guys have had ample time to produce this order, and to not have our calls returned, or the status of our order given to us, is not good business. The last status update we received was this past Tuesday, and that was our order had still not begun printing. Your customer service reps have said that they will forward our urgent requests to production, but I have no reason to believe anything has been done.

I apologize for the lengthy post, and wish there was a better way to communicate with your company. But the only real replies I get from you guys are in this forum. 

I would appreciate it if you could email me at michael[USER=160360]@IamRYR[/USER].com to continue this conversation outside of this forum.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

IamRYR said:


> Hi Kurt,
> 
> I have received the gift card voucher, and appreciate your effort.
> 
> ...


Hi Michael,
I will call you today.


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## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

This is why I do everything possible to make and keep my customers happy. We all make mistakes, but an unhappy customer will tell everyone about their experience when a happy customer rarely tells any one. We would not be reading this thread if everything went well. I have a personal option of what I'm reading about, but I'll keep it to myself. I hope all parties concerned come to a happy medium.


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

I don't know about anybody else but 5 different designs for a total of 250 prints would've left our place 7-10 days worse case scenerio...As long as the files are print ready. Usually most orders leave within 2-5 Business days. To us this should be the norm.


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## playfulthrills (Oct 21, 2011)

GAWD 


I think he should have gotten his tee shirts a lot sooner, i sure the hell am not going to do business with this company, it doesnt look like he is the only one screwed over by them.. 

MAYBE NON OF THEM read the TERMS OF SERVICE and trusted the people he talked to to do things right


the mock up sure sounds like it took a long time and is the tee shirt people are useing that as an excuse for the delay

costomer service sure was peezzz POOR I THINK .. he should get some credit for some free tee shirts and hope they improve the costomer service,


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

Mickelmorgan,wholesaleprint,&playfulthrills : 

These would have been out a lot quicker, but I would think that as printers (with the exception of playfulthrills) you would know that sometimes Customers do things on their side to increase the turn around. How are we to move on with Production until we have signed approval? Sometimes it is a simple case of a Customer not understanding something. Once they get on the phone with us and we explain to them the situation, they usually get it. Some Customers are just unreasonable. The last thing I want to do is argue with you guys, but if a Customer came on & complained about you I would definitely read in depth both sides & maybe even contact the owner before I went and posted against them. I would have definitely stuck up for the printer if they were clearly in the right and had the facts.


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## WholesalePrint (Sep 23, 2008)

At tagless , I meant no harm just stated our expectations. We also agree with your comment. We are realest and understand where your are coming from. This being said we havent had any complaints from customers we've referred to you due to a you guys offering a service we dont. Happy printing.


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## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

Kurt,
I don't think I viewed my opinion on this matter. My point was, at all cost to keep my customers happy to keep things like this from happening. Regardless of who said what and who didn't understand what, you are now defending yourself and possibly losing customers because of one unhappy customer. I have given away as many as 700 shirts on one order (when my customer admitted their fault in the matter) just to keep them from spreading a bad experience about my shop. That was 12 years ago and this customer now purchases from me yearly for their event. It is a 1,000 plus shirt order. I could have told them that I produced what they wanted in the manner in which they ordered it and I would have been right. To me it's damage control. Now they speak very highly of my business instead of telling everyone about the order that got screwed up. Customer never tell the venders side of the story. The customer may not always be right, but their piers never know the whole story. 
Now you have people piling up on you. Dude I hate it for you, but right or wrong your bleeding pretty bad right now.


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## IamRYR (Nov 25, 2011)

I would like to provide an update to this forum on my current situation with Tagless Threads, as well as provide a review of Tagless Threads.

After communicating with Tagless Threads over the past week, I had told Kurt that I needed the order I placed on November 3rd, by December 9th (today). Not only did I receive my order today, which was right on time, I also received an additional order that I had placed with them November 25th. I would like to thank Kurt, and those who my partner and I communicated with over the last few weeks for fulfilling our first order as well as our second order on time. As a small business owner, I also understand the complexities of business, but Kurt and TT were able to get the products to me on time.

The quality of the screen printing is great. My design is somewhat intricate but it came out great. I looked through the entire order and do not see any flaws with the shirts or printing. I'm really happy with the quality, and although the beginning of our business relationship was a bit bumpy, I will say that I will do business with Tagless Threads again. (I have a 3rd order with them as I speak).

Also, Kurt was kind enough to provide me with a gift certificate for use on a future purchase. I thought his outreach to me was sufficient and appreciate the customer care he provided my company when I brought our situation to his attention.

Thanks again Kurt, and Tagless Threads, for producing high quality products on time. I look forward in placing more orders through you in the near future.


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## Frapps (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree on the BAD EXPERIENCE of Tagless Threads. I placed an order for ONE shirt. I paid for RUSH service. I emailed two days prior to the arrival date and no response to my email confirming it had shipped. I couldn't use the website as the "account" page would never load (tried various browsers). I emailed a second time after the arrival date had come and gone. No response to my second email. I called today and was not surprised that I got voicemail. I don't expect a call back. This is clearly a fraudulent business. Luckily I am a family full of lawyers and yes, even the smallest situation I will ensure my money is fully refunded and that this doesn't happen again to someone else. From now on, I think I will stick to honest businesses. I wish I would have read this thread prior to ordering with them.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I called today and was not surprised that I got voicemail. I don't expect a call back. This is clearly a fraudulent business


A slow response doesn't equal a fraudulent business. Especially around the holiday. 

It sucks that you didn't get the responses you need and the turnaround time you expected, but I don't think they are out to take your money. Hopefully they'll get your situation worked out soon.


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## Frapps (Jan 2, 2012)

@Rodney. When it takes a company weeks to reply, that is fraudelent. I am paying for a service I am clearly not receiving. As it turns out, I received a reply today. What was the response? Should be no surprise to this thread "We haven't received the plain gray t-shirt from the supplier". Um, really? That sounds fraudulent to me. I ordered one shirt, printed on a basic gray shirt. Why is this company even selling items they clearly don't have in stock? I can tell you now, it doesn't take WEEKs to get one t-shirt from a supplier. I would love to call their supplier and even verify they placed an order.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

Frapps, I will be looking into this. There must be an issue of miscommunication here as generally one shirt is shipped within 5-10 business days normally and 2-4 days for a rush. 

And, yes we are closed today because today is the observance day for New Year's Day. That is why you got voicemail and I can assure you we are not a fraudulent company. I do not think you should say such things about a company unless you really know, with all do respect.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Frapps said:


> @Rodney. When it takes a company weeks to reply, that is fraudelent. I am paying for a service I am clearly not receiving. As it turns out, I received a reply today. What was the response? Should be no surprise to this thread "We haven't received the plain gray t-shirt from the supplier". Um, really? That sounds fraudulent to me. I ordered one shirt, printed on a basic gray shirt. Why is this company even selling items they clearly don't have in stock? I can tell you now, it doesn't take WEEKs to get one t-shirt from a supplier. I would love to call their supplier and even verify they placed an order.


Dude, chill. They ran out of stock. It happens in companies of all sizes and by no means is fraudulent. And, for the record, many manufacturers can take weeks or months to ship certain lines.

Don't go around accusing people of fraud. On the Internet things like that can get blown out of proportion very quickly.

Let these guys get back from the holiday tomorrow and call them. I the product is back ordered and you don't want to wait they will probably give you a refund or a credit to get something else.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> When it takes a company weeks to reply, that is fraudelent


I'd just call that slow service. Definitely not fraudulent.



> Should be no surprise to this thread "We haven't received the plain gray t-shirt from the supplier". Um, really? That sounds fraudulent to me. I ordered one shirt, printed on a basic gray shirt. Why is this company even selling items they clearly don't have in stock?


Certain blank t-shirts go out of stock from manufacturers all the time, unfortunately. 

I don't know if that's what happened in this specific case, but it's not rare.

Companies that do custom printing don't stock every single t-shirt style, color, size option that they offer to customers. That would make it impossible to warehouse with all the different combinations out there, so when a customer places an order, they place an order with their supplier. 

It's actually a very common practice.

I really hope this order all gets sorted out for you. 

I'm not defending slow service. I just wanted others who may be reading this thread know that there's a big difference between slow service and fraud, and some of the things that happened could be explained.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

@Frapps : 

It took me a while to find your order and try to figure out who you were because I could not find it from "Frapps". 

I would like to point out that this post is extremely exaggerated as we did not take weeks to reply. You emailed us when we were closed for the holiday which is why you did not receive a response the first time. You emailed two days later and even though we were still closed for the holidays and called us fraudulent. Our Customer Service Manager responded to you from home on his own time. What is fraudulent about this? Like I said, it is damaging to use that term on a public forum without trying to work this out with a company first. 

I understand you paid for RUSH service, but please note you completed payment on the order at the busiest time of the year and we do state that the order is expected to arrive; not the order will arrive by said date. 

Please remember that our Customer Service Manager immediately said he would refund you for the RUSH fees and that we would send it out. He also told you that if you wanted to cancel and receive a complete refund that he would do so. We awaited your decision. You responded asking "when will it ship out?" He responded and told you they would ship on the 4th. We did not hear back from you until today,Monday January 9th and we refunded you immediately. 

You wrote this post on the 2nd before allowing us the chance to fix it with you. I understand you are entitled to your own opinion, but to call a company fraudulent for not answering your email before two days on a holiday is arbitrary. 

You have received a refund as requested the same day you asked for it (although it is the 10th you can see the time we are writing this and that it is still our workday). I have never seen this service from a fraudulent company. And your refund would have been to you on the 2nd or 3rd had you let us know that was how you wanted to proceed.

We have been in business for 6 years and printing one shirt is a piece of cake and we would not sacrifice our integrity or reputation over one shirt. The simple fact of the matter is this: you ordered during our busiest time. We print all orders in the order in which they were received and the same goes for RUSH orders. There are many around the holidays. Sometimes there are not enough hours in each work day. I apologize that you were not warned, but our terms note that this is not guaranteed. 

Hopefully if you have a business, your customers will give you a better chance than you gave us before they put the word "fraudulent" on the internet. I can assure you that if you were to come in and meet us, you would re-think the discordant post.

Thank you for your time. I apologize for your inconvenience and hope you recognize our willingness to resolve this for you.


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## Flatcallbrand (Aug 17, 2011)

Kurt from Taglessthreads,

I private messaged you, I have something to discuss with you.


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

Very bad experience with Tagless Threads, took me over two months for four designs for about 300 shirts. Email after email after email, got my order to find a large number of shirts missing and some had stains and as far as the quality most designs were crooked and the tagless tags looked like a blind guy was working that day. Took me over a month just to get a refund on the missing shirts. Total waste of time.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

"DukeErrl" it's unfortunate to hear this. We are very strict when it comes to quality before leaving our facility. I don't see any claims or refunds do to crooked tags or designs. 

If you could give me your real name I could look it up and get to the bottom of this.


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

It took another month to get my Refund back. Every thing was taken care of after a new hire came in and finally did some thing about it. This I remind you she took care of this in a couple of days that took other employees over a month to do! I wasted to much time and money with this company, what they don't tell you is that if you order from the online designer that you will get cheap work done! It should be the same quality as your other services. Good luck with your company!


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

I cannot respond to your situation unless I have an actual name to validate your order/issues. 

What I can say is that, yes we have had employees in the past who were not efficient which is the exact reason why they are no longer here. And it was not a new hire that took care of you - it was one of the owners and of course an owner of a company would take care of you within hours.

Also, our prints are as good as the customer's artwork so I am not sure what you ordered, but this could be a factor of your "cheap work". Like I said, I would like to respond and look into your situation but your username is nothing like any name we have in our database so you would need to tell me who you are in order to do that. 

If you do not tell me a name, (you are welcome to private message me if you do not want to post it on the forum) I will assume that this review is not from a real customer.


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

There's no need for me to contact you with my real name the matter has already be handled I am just speaking of my experience and I don't need to tell you who I am just so you can find some excuse to back your self up with. Crooked designs and tags as in cheap work is what I was talking about. My review is meant for customers not the owners trying to back peddle. Good luck with your company but you lost me as a customer.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

DukeErrl, 

From the prospective of a business owner who has had competitors create dis-honest posts such as this one, it looks suspicious when you cannot tell me who you are- but even more so when you have no other history on this forum besides to badmouth our company.

There is no back peddling here because if you were truly a Customer, you said it yourself, you would have been taken care of. I am simply addressing this because no one wants to see a negative post about their company. What is the need to hide behind the name "DukeErrl"?


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

This is a review of my experience not an area for you to try and explain your self. I know how I was treated and the quality of product I got in return. I will not return as a customer if some one else reads this and decides to still work with you that's all good I'm not trying to hurt your company only bad work ethic will do that. You make the customers sign a form that's says you can't talk about the company no matter how bad your experience is well that's seems really fishy since you keep asking for my real name.I'm not the only one on this site who has had a problem with your company and all you do is tell the customer that their wrong and it's not your fault. Like I said before this is my experience others may have a different experience don't take what I say change your mind about this company take your own risk! Now that being said you should get off the internet and get back to your real job making sure you don't have any more problems instead of trying to play catch up!


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

It is becoming obvious that DukeEarl is just a "windbag"...I find it troubling when someone joins a forum for the sole purpose of bashing a vendor and then will not give the vendor the opportunity to investigate the claim further....


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

Oh man your so right I just joined here to look threw the forums and find one that was already talking about there experience with Tagless Threads just so I could talk **** on just one single company... Are you kidding me? Just cause I haven't been on this thread for as long as some of you that you think its some kind of scam? What do I have to gain for telling my experience?Hey Royster heres an idea talk about stuff you know and don't involve yourself in other peoples situations if it has nothing to do with you. This matter is already taken care of by Tagless so I don't see the need to re hash the problem. I had a bad experience that's all if we can't speak the truth then there's just censorship!


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

There's no need to investigate the claim cause it's all ready done and over with. I had a bad experience why can't we just leave it at that, I know I'm not the only one either so why can't you just let it be your the one making more of a big deal then it is. We all make mistakes it takes a man to admit them and the correct it not just complain. The matter is done and over with lets just all move on!


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I had a bad experience why can't we just leave it at that


@DukeErrl Because sometimes people "pretend" to be a customer in order to bad mouth a business.

As crazy as it may sound, it does happen.

We're here to help each other and learn, not just to post about bad experiences.

If the company you had a bad experience with is sincerely trying to reach out and help you and you're saying that you're not interested in resolving the issues you had with your order, then it does sound a little weird.

Why would you *want* to stay unhappy with your order? 

It's great when people share honest experiences here, but at the same time, part of being honest is working with a company that you are talking about...not just posting anonymously and wanting others to trust what you say is true. 

How can the company know it made a mistake if you won't even tell them any information about your order? With just a screen name, you could be anybody. 

If you have no interest in working with Tagless Threads so they can address your issue, then unfortunately, it does make your posts seem less legitimate.


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

What do I need to resolve? I had already Sadi more than once that this matter has already been taken care of got my refund and I moved on. The reason I don't want to give my name is cause I don't want any thing in return from Tagless this was just a review of my experience. I had no idea it was going to turn into people calling me a lier. I can take down all the post if that's what you want I could care less I just wanted to tell
My story. There's nothing Tagless can do for me know this situation is already done and over with so no need to figure out who I am. What would you do? Oh I rembrandt you lets send you a discount for you next order! No thanks I have moved on.


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## jfish (Feb 26, 2010)

Sounds like both sides need to work on somethings but someone who is extremely impatient and decides to go the DTG route on such a large order is making a mistake from jump street. 

I have dealt with customers who bug the living sh*t out of me and its like hey im busy here chill out!! 

While this isn't my issue and I see both sides points on this but as a business owner when you have an unhappy customer just call them or email them back even if its just to say hey I have received your concerns and will address them soon. Just so your being upfront and not avoiding them. 

Communication really is important. I hope everything is okay with you guys and both parties can move on.


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## DukeErrl (Apr 17, 2012)

Like I said I have moved on every thing is good on my side. I was just telling my story that was already resolved by Tagless. Don't let my experience change your view of the company.


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