# Disney attempts trademarking Seal Team 6 for clothing, footwear, headwear, etc.



## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Link to one of the many articles about it:
Disney Wants Trademark For 'Seal Team 6' - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando

Link to USPTO hits with search term "seal team":
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4010%3As0rj16.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=seal+team&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

Disney applied for 3 Seal Team 6 trademarks in all.

I am interested to see how this plays out. I'm wondering if Uncle Sam and the Navy will throw a fit. Also wondering if Disney plans to actually use the name in some form or if they are planning a PR angle of protecting the integrity of "Seal Team 6" by playing god with the licensing. Might sound crazy but Disney is very well known for being super aggressive (as they should be) in enforcing their trademarks and copyrights.

I really, really, really hope they don't put out "patriotic" toys with "Made in China" stamped on the bottom.


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## GENEAPPAREL (May 15, 2011)

Capitalism at it's best


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

The copyright office actually granted patent of the seal team 6 logo to novalogic back in 2004? Would that mean anyone of us can apply for a patent for the White House logo and sue its occupants after 12 months?


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

For a patent you would have to demonstrate that you invented the White House - not sure that you'd get away with that.
You could apply for a trademark in a territory.
I think that the easiest thing to do is what has traditionally been done, buy the White House ;-)


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Rothco already has Seal Team 6 stuff.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Not the white house itself but the logo of the white house. I am just surprised that a private institution can copyright the logo of a military unit. But apparently that can be done. 

Just for the sake of discussion, will disney (or rothco) eventually have the right to sue the navy seal team 6 for using the logo/emblem on their patches? Or maybe have the right to sue the wives of navy seals (as a private group) for printing commemorative shirts with the words "I love my seal" with the seal team 6 logo on it?


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## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

Don't quite understand how the seal team 6 fits into the Disney family image. Shooting terrorist in the head, how do add that to a Disney World theme park. Take the kids out to Disney world to see Mickey shoot a few bad guys.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

yes, i don;t think that extreme violence and wholesome family fun really goes well together.


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## jean518 (Sep 23, 2009)

Have you watched a lot of Disney?? Take a good look. Violence abounds. They just sugar coat it. Look at some of the stars with issues that came out of the Disney stable. I personally have issues with Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana, ICarly, and some of their other programs that promote parental disrespect. Disney is a multifaceted organization. They own a lot of studios under another name. Rothco is a military supplier.


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## BogginOnaBudget (Sep 20, 2010)

Just curious..what if I had first in commerce on seal team 6 shirts and had good documentation of my sales..could I go back and obtain the trademark. Since I was first to sell that product???I've heard that first in commerce gives you some type of right to that product..just curious and I figured this would be a good example.. thanks everybody


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BroJames said:


> The copyright office actually granted patent of the seal team 6 logo to novalogic back in 2004?


The US Copyright Office does not grant patents. And logos are not even eligible for patent registration. If you are referring to the NovaLogic applications on the USPTO database, they are both dead.



BroJames said:


> Would that mean anyone of us can apply for a patent for the White House logo and sue its occupants after 12 months?


This makes no sense. Even if you were able to trademark a logo featuring the White House, how would owning that trademark transfer ownership of the actual White House?

Owning a trademark and owning the property depicted in the mark are two completely different things.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BroJames said:


> I am just surprised that a private institution can copyright the logo of a military unit. But apparently that can be done.


First, Seal Team 6 is an unofficial name. If the Navy wanted to own the mark, they could have. Since there was no existing registration, Disney has every right to file an application.

Second, no registration has been granted. Disney has simply applied for the trademark. It's up to an examining attorney to approve or reject.



BroJames said:


> Just for the sake of discussion, will disney (or rothco) eventually have the right to sue the navy seal team 6 for using the logo/emblem on their patches? Or maybe have the right to sue the wives of navy seals (as a private group) for printing commemorative shirts with the words "I love my seal" with the seal team 6 logo on it?


I think you are reading WAY too into this.

The Navy's usage came first. So Disney, even if they get the registration, will not be able to prevent their existing usage.

I seriously doubt Disney will want to prevent or restrict the Navy's usage anyway. Their usage is what gives the mark value in the first place. Negating that value would be like Major League Baseball telling the Yankees to stop using their logo. If the team stops wearing the logo, fans will no longer want that merchandise. The Navy's continued usage of the mark is critical to the merchandising success of the property.

I'd be willing to bet that whatever merchandise line, movie or theme park attraction comes out of this will be a cooperative venture between Disney and the US Navy.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BogginOnaBudget said:


> Just curious..what if I had first in commerce on seal team 6 shirts and had good documentation of my sales..could I go back and obtain the trademark. Since I was first to sell that product???I've heard that first in commerce gives you some type of right to that product..just curious and I figured this would be a good example.. thanks everybody


If you have documented proof of first use in commerce, you could take legal action to acquire the trademark for those goods and services.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

kimura-mma said:


> The US Copyright Office does not grant patents. And logos are not even eligible for patent registration. If you are referring to the NovaLogic applications on the USPTO database, they are both dead.
> 
> 
> This makes no sense. Even if you were able to trademark a logo featuring the White House, how would owning that trademark transfer ownership of the actual White House?
> ...


On the first paragraph, I based it on the linked article which states that the trademark (not the application) was abandoned after 2 years where approval usually takes a year or less. 


> "Stephen Luther, trademark and patent attorney with Allen, Dyer, Doppelt, Milbrath & Gilchrist, said it usually takes nine to 12 months for an application to be approved....Luther said.Luther also points out that another company, NovaLogic, Inc, out of California, applied for the same patent back in 2004 but after two years the trademark was abandoned."


I was unable to access the USPTO link

For the second and third paragraph, no, i am not referring to the white house structure nor its occupants but to the white house logo and its usage.



kimura-mma said:


> First, Seal Team 6 is an unofficial name. If the Navy wanted to own the mark, they could have. Since there was no existing registration, Disney has every right to file an application.
> 
> ... I think you are reading WAY too into this.
> 
> ...


So does everyone else on the white house logo?

Again, it is just a hypothetical question. But then, the usage I mentioned is not by the navy seals but by another group which (in my example) are the wives of the navy seals team 6. Since the navy's usage comes first, Disney's copyright if approved comes next, will other people associated with the navy seals or the navy seals itself be now at the mercy of Disney? Will the continued usage of the logo depends on the goodwill of disney? 

What disney will or will not do is not important. The question is, if approved, can disney legally claim ownership of the now copyrighted logo?

These are hypothethical questions, and I am not reading way too deep into this, but part of the discussion is the repercussions of this copyright if approved. Are the logos of most (if not all) federal and state government agencies, copyrighted?

Another example, can one freely shirts with the words "SWAT", "DEA", "ATF", "NAVY SEAL TEAM 3 & 10" assuming that they're is not copyrighted? Or even print the Seal Team 6 logo prior to any copyright approval?
*
My personal interest is that being into airsoft, I've printed some military insignias on team shirts.*


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BroJames said:


> On the first paragraph, I based it on the linked article which states that the trademark (not the application) was abandoned after 2 years where approval usually takes a year or less.


The article misuses the word "patent." Logos are definitely not eligible for patent registration. They should have used the word "trademark."

The wording of the article is misleading. The trademark *application* was abandoned after two years. There was never a registration granted to NovaLogic. When you search the USPTO database, there is no Registration Number given to their application. If you dig a little deeper, you can see that they were given a Notice of Allowance, which they extended twice, but never submitted a Statement of Use. Once they failed to submit the Statement of Use or file a third extension, their application was abandoned.



BroJames said:


> the white house logo and its usage.
> So does everyone else on the white house logo?


The White House logo and it's image is probably in some form of Public Domain. Not sure if it's free for anyone to use, but I doubt it can be owned as intellectual property.



BroJames said:


> Again, it is just a hypothetical question. But then, the usage I mentioned is not by the navy seals but by another group which (in my example) are the wives of the navy seals team 6. Since the navy's usage comes first, Disney's copyright if approved comes next, will other people associated with the navy seals or the navy seals itself be now at the mercy of Disney? Will the continued usage of the logo depends on the goodwill of disney?


You're misusing the word "copyright." You should be using "trademark."

I doubt that Minka Kelly or Cameron Diaz pay for their Yankees shirts. So I'm sure a Navy Seals wife can land a freebie from the Navy or Disney.

But to answer the question, anyone who uses the mark without permission would be at risk to be sued. This of course is dependent on Disney getting the registration. EDIT: For Disney to have legal recourse, the infringed usage would have to be on the goods or services listed on the trademark application.

The Navy Seals will be able to continue to use the mark as they have always used it. Not a single thing changes based on Disney's trademark. Not only do I believe this from a legal sense, but I believe from a business sense. Disney *wants* the Navy Seals to continue using the mark because their usage adds value to the merchandising opportunities.

That said, if Disney ever feels that any usage competes with them in the marketplace, they would have legal recourse within the boundaries of their trademark registration.



BroJames said:


> What disney will or will not do is not important. The question is, if approved, can disney legally claim ownership of the now copyrighted logo?


Again, misuse of the word copyright.

But yes, if approved, Disney can claim ownership of the mark within the boundaries of their registration but excluding any prior official usage by the Navy.



BroJames said:


> Are the logos of most (if not all) federal and state government agencies, copyrighted?
> 
> Another example, can one freely shirts with the words "SWAT", "DEA", "ATF", "NAVY SEAL TEAM 3 & 10" assuming that they're is not copyrighted?


Still misusing the word copyright.

I do not believe government logos are trademarked. Not sure if that means they are Public Domain for anyone to use.



BroJames said:


> Or even print the Seal Team 6 logo prior to any copyright approval?


I wouldn't recommend it.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

sorry for not proofing my post re patents(usually an invention, process or method), copyright (usually an image or artistic work) and trademark(usually logos or word used in trade)



> Not sure if that means they are Public Domain for anyone to use


. 
You cannot use the words "_SWAT", "DEA", "ATF", "NAVY SEAL TEAM 3 & 10_" in a manner that would give the wrong impression that you belong to the aforesaid agencies. So what I am interested in knowing (in light of the disney application and the possibility that a trademark will be granted on the navy seal logo), can a printer print shirts with names and logos of non-copyrighted government agencies? We are allowed to sell knives and it is the responsibility of the buyer on what they do with them(not the shop) so is it the same with printing these "un-trademarked" names and logos?

On the printing of the Seal Team 6 logo prior to any copyright approval why not? I mean the trademark approval seems to be the turning point with regards to who can use the trademark legally. Since we live in a capitalistic society within the limits of law, if disney can try to achieve a marketing coup of sorts by their trademark application, why can't anyone else print all sorts of navy seal team 6 logo and sell them before the trademark approval is granted? After all, disney is still not using them in actual trade. I believe that whatever or whereever they want to use the seal team 6 logo on is still in the conceptual stage. Wouldn't this be legal? Or does the pending application confer them some legal rights? 

Sorry for the questions but I think this is an eye-opener on how trademark works.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BroJames said:


> in light of the disney application and the possibility that a trademark will be granted on the navy seal logo


Just to clarify, the Disney application is for a standard character mark and has nothing to do with the existing Navy Seal logo. Disney will not get the rights to something they did not create and is already being used. The USPTO will decide if Disney's new mark conflicts with any existing Navy Seals marks.



BroJames said:


> can a printer print shirts with names and logos of non-copyrighted government agencies?


Government works are not subject to copyright and can be reproduced without restrictions.

But there is an exception regarding agency logos, which are eligible for trademark. Agency logos, if registered, can be protected.

So the way I understand it, copyright eligible works can be used. Trademark eligible logos cannot be used.



BroJames said:


> On the printing of the Seal Team 6 logo prior to any copyright approval why not?


Because the actual logo may be protected by the Navy Seals. If it's not registered, then sure, go right ahead.

As for using a standard character Seal Team 6 mark, Disney is clearly making a claim to the ownership of the mark. If you think there is a loophole where you can use the mark after the trademark application but before usage or registration, then sure, go right ahead.



BroJames said:


> I mean the trademark approval seems to be the turning point with regards to who can use the trademark legally.


No, usage in commerce is the legal turning point.



BroJames said:


> if disney can try to achieve a marketing coup of sorts by their trademark application


Can you elaborate a little more on this? I'm not quite sure what you mean.



BroJames said:


> why can't anyone else print all sorts of navy seal team 6 logo and sell them before the trademark approval is granted?


You are not seeing the line between the existing Navy Seals logo and the new Disney standard character mark.

The Navy Seals logo already exists and has been in use by the Navy Seals. Perhaps they do not enforce the protection of their mark. But they could. You would have to research it before reproducing the mark.



BroJames said:


> After all, disney is still not using them in actual trade. I believe that whatever or whereever they want to use the seal team 6 logo on is still in the conceptual stage. Wouldn't this be legal? Or does the pending application confer them some legal rights?


By submitting an application, Disney is claiming rights to a mark. I'm not sure what the laws are in trying to use the mark before the registration is granted. But Disney attorneys are pretty slick. I'm sure they know what they are doing and will probably make sure there is some type of enforceable usage in place to prevent losing the mark.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

SickPuppy said:


> Don't quite understand how the seal team 6 fits into the Disney family image. Shooting terrorist in the head, how do add that to a Disney World theme park. Take the kids out to Disney world to see Mickey shoot a few bad guys.


i guess you don't know old walt very well. disney movies were full of violence and disneyland had an indian who shot a settler with an arrow and a real live shooting gallery with real pellets. 

all of that is gone now in the interest of political correctness. 

you have to go to knott's berry farm to get the real deal.


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## hazeremover (Mar 31, 2011)

Excellent. Blowing the head open of a human being which Disney is cashing in on will hopefully prompt them to finally release "Song Of The South" on DVD. Saw it a couple of times in the theatre when I was a small fry and enjoyed it. Disney pulled it because they deemed it not politically correct, Uncle Remus and all that. Ridiculous.

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah indeed!


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

kimura-mma said:


> Just to clarify, the Disney application is for a standard character mark and has nothing to do with the existing Navy Seal logo. Disney will not get the rights to something they did not create and is already being used. The USPTO will decide if Disney's new mark conflicts with any existing Navy Seals marks.
> ...
> You are not seeing the line between the existing Navy Seals logo and the new Disney standard character mark.
> 
> The Navy Seals logo already exists and has been in use by the Navy Seals. Perhaps they do not enforce the protection of their mark. But they could. You would have to research it before reproducing the mark.


I have read that "standard character mark" a while back but never really had a grasp of what it really means. So they're different animals?

That is how I understand things and that the navy seals has the existing rights of a non registered user. Until this thread which I misunderstood as the actual navy seal logo itself being the subject of the trademark application making disney a western counterpart of Jack Wolfskin.  




kimura-mma said:


> ...By submitting an application, Disney is claiming rights to a mark. I'm not sure what the laws are in trying to use the mark before the registration is granted. But Disney attorneys are pretty slick. ...


The act of submitting an application could have probably bestow some rights to the applicant like "patent pending"?


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## ohmart (May 24, 2011)

Hmm, Donald Duck used to throw some gawd awful tantrums!!


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## GrapeCloth (May 20, 2010)

Scrooge McDuck is good money.


Live The Good Life.
www.GrapeCloth.com


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

BroJames said:


> I have read that "standard character mark" a while back but never really had a grasp of what it really means. So they're different animals?


A standard character mark offers broad protections rights to a brand name. There is no design or style element, including fonts and colors, that are protected. The trademark registration protects the brand name only.

The existing Disney application has NOTHING to do with the existing Navy Seals logo. They cannot claim ownership of a mark they didn't create. And they cannot prevent the owner of the mark (registered or not) from continued usage.



BroJames said:


> That is how I understand things and that the navy seals has the existing rights of a non registered user. Until this thread which I misunderstood as the actual navy seal logo itself being the subject of the trademark application making disney a western counterpart of Jack Wolfskin.


Disney is notoriously aggressive for protecting their trademarks. Not sure if they use the same tactics as Jack Wolfskin, but they certainly have a reputation as such.

That said, this situation really has nothing to do with anything I have read on Jack Wolfskin. Disney is not trying to sue anyone, not trying to steal anything, not trying to prevent others from using something they legally have rights to, etc.

Time will tell what Disney's true intentions are (not to mention if they even get the trademark approved and registered). But for now, all they did was submit an application for a mark that is not currently registered. And it is completely separate from the existing Navy Seals logo.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks Tim. BTW, are you active in MMA?


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

Just heard a blurb on the news along the lines of the Navy objecting and Disney withdrawing the application.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

I wonder if any game programmers are on the drawing boards for a navy seal computer game.


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