# Image Armor white ink on polyester



## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

Anyone else get this email link?

100% Polyester DTG Printing Without Different Inks


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

With Firebird Light PT it's also posible to do this for some time now. Same as IA only lighter colors garments.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

We've been doing lighter colored garments also for quite a white, but now we've figured a way out to do darker colors (no reds yet, blacks are ok). But the GOLD shirt rocks and washability is great so far we've seen. Just a little different on procedures to do it, which we layout on the web page.

We were really excited to bring this out as it is another major step forward......


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## treefox2118 (Sep 23, 2010)

In this article you mentioned Sport-Tek -- do you have any info you can share on other popular poly brands?

I think the only local distributor with Sport-Tek is Sanmar, and we don't buy from them at the moment.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

This was the main brand we tried, though some colors left a slight discoloration. We are in process of trying other brands. 

While at the surf show, some guy brought over a 100% poly bright ORANGE and YELLOW. The crazy thing was I thought they'd discolor where the PT was - but they came out perfect. 

There will be some trials and testing for shops, but the rewards will be worth it. We will keep posting this information on our website as we come across other brands.


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## NSDdesign (Dec 13, 2011)

Brian, can I stop by and see this with my own eyes? I have a customer that is needing poly all the time but his ideas don't lend themselves to screening very easily.

Are You using NEO rip?


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Sure, you can stop by. Just set up a time with me as I am in and out with lots going on.... 

***CAUTION*** Mad Scientist at work


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## NSDdesign (Dec 13, 2011)

Brian Walker said:


> Sure, you can stop by. Just set up a time with me as I am in and out with lots going on....
> 
> ***CAUTION*** Mad Scientist at work


Can do, I'll give yah a call next week. Looks killer! I know you're a busy guy, whenever I stop in to pick up some Image Armor, your never to be seen, I just hear commotion going on from the dungeon.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

Brian Walker said:


> This was the main brand we tried, though some colors left a slight discoloration. We are in process of trying other brands.
> 
> While at the surf show, some guy brought over a 100% poly bright ORANGE and YELLOW. The crazy thing was I thought they'd discolor where the PT was - but they came out perfect.
> 
> There will be some trials and testing for shops, but the rewards will be worth it. We will keep posting this information on our website as we come across other brands.




Nice job, Brian. We have been telling customers that white ink printing on dark 100% polyester is definitely coming sooner rather then later.

_


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Thank you. Please see the link for the process and details. Black is so-so. Red is now way (goes pink). I think if the RIPs can lay down more white ink on the first pass I think it can even get better, but after today, I'm really excited about presenting this to the DTG community.


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## CanarianDrifter (Sep 12, 2012)

Brian, what's the word regarding Brothers (white) Ink? Any good news on that?

CD


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

For polyester, no. Not yet.

For Dupont inksets, check out the image below attached. This is after 5x washing and drying (hot/cold and hot for dryer). See the closeup. The inks are wrapped around the fibers and not going anywhere and at this point there is absolutely NO FEEL to the print at all........


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

I have finally updated the webpage on our site to reflect this information to show the wash testing. It feels like sublimation with no hand..... with DTG standard Dupont inks AND Image Armor LIGHT........ follow the steps and it is reproduceable. See this picture of the Dead Frog...


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Here's the picture of the DEAD FROG.... I followed the same steps and first time reproduction easily done.


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Nice work Mr Walker!!


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## lkt1954 (Nov 15, 2009)

Great work Brian................

Now if I could just get my mind around setting up the neoflex to do this I would give it a try.

Again Thanks


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## JCS2013 (Mar 17, 2013)

Epson F2000 Ink?


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

lkt1954 said:


> Great work Brian................
> 
> Now if I could just get my mind around setting up the neoflex to do this I would give it a try.
> 
> Again Thanks


I think Brian probably used the Neo to do these. Basically just rip as a black shirt then right click the ripped file and print white only, then rip as a dark or colored shirt and do same to print cmyk layer. If I understood correctly.


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

JCS2013 said:


> Epson F2000 Ink?


I will try the epson F2000 on tuesday and let you know I suspect works fine


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

It should work fine with the Epson. We have not yet tried their inks but should be ok as the LIGHT formula works well with their inks too on light colored shirts. Randy, have at it and let me know. I have some other things I have to try before Ft Worth.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

Brian Walker said:


> It should work fine with the Epson. We have not yet tried their inks but should be ok as the LIGHT formula works well with their inks too on light colored shirts. Randy, have at it and let me know. I have some other things I have to try before Ft Worth.



No reason it should not work. I'm sure we will be hearing soon from a few Epson F2000 owners.

_


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## lkt1954 (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks Randy.

Let me see if I have this right:
1) Use black/dark high res platen
2) Once image is on platen- select black background
3) add to q-manager- rip instead of hit print
4) right click on file in q-manager and select white only
5) once white is printed- re-rip file in q-manager- select cmyk with highlights and print.

Am I doing this correctly?

Thanks
Larry


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

Sounds right step 5 select dark or colored, not black so should print highlights and black ink without underbase in voids.


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## lkt1954 (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks Randy


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

with the NeoRIP, wouldn't you get the same basic result if you just selected the "Dark Color" background? this wouldn't print white ink under black, you would still have a gradient white underbase, and black ink would print in the cmyk pass. what am i missing?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

23spiderman said:


> with the NeoRIP, wouldn't you get the same basic result if you just selected the "Dark Color" background? this wouldn't print white ink under black, you would still have a gradient white underbase, and black ink would print in the cmyk pass. what am i missing?


I was thinking the same thing.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Here's the 10x wash of the 100% polyester. We'll have quite a few examples at the Ft. Worth show for people to check out so make sure to attend and stop by.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

This one came out really cool looking.... also 100% polyester.


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## ceesiren (May 6, 2014)

Brian Walker said:


> I have finally updated the webpage on our site to reflect this information to show the wash testing. It feels like sublimation with no hand..... with DTG standard Dupont inks AND Image Armor LIGHT........ follow the steps and it is reproduceable. See this picture of the Dead Frog...


I read your description of how to do this and I'm a little confused. I'm still pretty new to DTG, so that's probably why.
I have an Anajet MP5i and the rip that comes with it will lay down the base white with no problem, but I'm unclear on what you mean by the white highlights since those are not separated out on my RIP. Is this a deficiency with my rip or am I misunderstanding.

Also, I have the option of either laying down solid white or context based white. It seems like you are saying more white is better but on cotton that isn't always the case. Are you saying to lay down solid white?

Also, one last question... do you know if this works with Firebird inks (which are very similar to the Dupont aristi)?

Thanks... Image Armor for lights truly is an amazing product...and although I hadn't tried using it for white ink, it certainly gives amazing results on 100% poly shirts without the white... absolutely crisp, bright and lasting.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

The white highlight and CMYK would print on top of the underbase. This is what I'm referring to. 

Yeah, even on cotton the LIGHT formula with white ink rocks in mid light colors. Thanks for the compliment. 

I don't have experience necessarily with the Anajet rip. But it should be easily done.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Not sure on the Firebird ink system, though my guess is yes.


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## ceesiren (May 6, 2014)

Brian Walker said:


> The white highlight and CMYK would print on top of the underbase. This is what I'm referring to.
> 
> Yeah, even on cotton the LIGHT formula with white ink rocks in mid light colors. Thanks for the compliment.
> 
> I don't have experience necessarily with the Anajet rip. But it should be easily done.


Would I just print the file as underbase only, solid white--not context based (specifying that I'm printing on a dark color) and then print the file again (specifying that I'm printing on a white shirt) without white ink enabled, so it only prints the CMYK (the AnaRip, of course, doesn't print anything where the white is if it thinks it's printing on white). That way, I think, the white "highlights" would be the solid white base layer showing through). Is that what you mean?


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

No. The under base for this to work correctly must not have any white under base under the black areas of the image. i.e. as if it were printing on a black shirt where the black of the shirt would be used for the black ink.

THEN, the regular color and white highlight are printed as a separate file.

Most of the RIP manufacturers will need to probably do something in the RIP to make this work seamlessly. I'd like to see a solid under base of white except where there is black or it fades out to black. Everywhere else being solid white. This would provide the best print quality and vibrancy. 

Currently, there is no way to do that that I am aware of.... yet.


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

ceesiren said:


> Would I just print the file as underbase only, solid white--not context based (specifying that I'm printing on a dark color) and then print the file again (specifying that I'm printing on a white shirt) without white ink enabled, so it only prints the CMYK (the AnaRip, of course, doesn't print anything where the white is if it thinks it's printing on white). That way, I think, the white "highlights" would be the solid white base layer showing through). Is that what you mean?


The highlight feature that Brian is mentioning is not apart of AnaRip

Some RIP softwares add a second layer of white during the CMYK pass to make things whiter but this is uneeded for the mpower

Whenever i try to print double white, the ink just runs off the shirt when i lift it off the platen.

That is why we do not include it for the mPower AnaRip

This feature is included for EKRIP on the Sprint


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## scuba_steve2699 (Nov 15, 2006)

Brian Walker said:


> No. The under base for this to work correctly must not have any white under base under the black areas of the image. i.e. as if it were printing on a black shirt where the black of the shirt would be used for the black ink.
> 
> THEN, the regular color and white highlight are printed as a separate file.
> 
> ...


Brian - I can create a custom Que in Imageworx (Cadlink) that would do just what you are looking for.


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

Still working on the Epson F2000, u really need the white highlight layer and Epson does not like white highlights, not yet anyway.


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## ceesiren (May 6, 2014)

spiderx1 said:


> Still working on the Epson F2000, u really need the white highlight layer and Epson does not like white highlights, not yet anyway.


At least you're working on it... wish I thought Anajet would consider updating their RIP to accommodate it.


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

ceesiren said:


> At least you're working on it... wish I thought Anajet would consider updating their RIP to accommodate it.


As i mentioned before, since we are using Ricoh heads and they use a wider drop size, having a highlight feature isnt feasible. Nothing to do with accommodation. It wouldnt make sense with these print heads and the amount of white it drops.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Ideally the perfect RIP combo for this would be absolutely no white under base under any BLACK ink but solid 100% white (or user variable) under base for all other colors. Where it fades from black to other colors that would still be "normal" but this would give the best results.


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

Or be able to have the white under base be more than 100% - variable - as it seems a heavier white initial under base works best. Too much highlight white (if any used) can create a bleeding problem.


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## ceesiren (May 6, 2014)

MZDEELO said:


> As i mentioned before, since we are using Ricoh heads and they use a wider drop size, having a highlight feature isnt feasible. Nothing to do with accommodation. It wouldnt make sense with these print heads and the amount of white it drops.


I'm curious. I was doing some print testing the other day (still pretty new) and I had a black background when I was creating the graphic just to visually get a feel for what it would look like. Normally I turn the black layer off before bringing a graphic into anarip, but I forgot and didn't realize until it was being printed. I let it print because I assumed that the black would drop out anyway (I thought the rip did this automatically as long as you set the background color to black) but after it printed I noticed this didn't happen and it printed the black box. Did I miss a setting or will it always do this? (I did have it set to context based printing... which is why I assumed the black would knock out.)


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## MZDEELO (Oct 14, 2006)

ceesiren said:


> I'm curious. I was doing some print testing the other day (still pretty new) and I had a black background when I was creating the graphic just to visually get a feel for what it would look like. Normally I turn the black layer off before bringing a graphic into anarip, but I forgot and didn't realize until it was being printed. I let it print because I assumed that the black would drop out anyway (I thought the rip did this automatically as long as you set the background color to black) but after it printed I noticed this didn't happen and it printed the black box. Did I miss a setting or will it always do this? (I did have it set to context based printing... which is why I assumed the black would knock out.)


to remove a black background go to the color adjustment tab... then look to where the Transparency setting is. click the drop down menu and select "Select Color" than click on the eye dropper tool. with the eyedropper tool, select the area of your graphic you want to remove (in this case black) than i would up the color tolerance slider to 10.

the textile color function is just to help you see what your graphic would look like with different shirt colors. just becuase you enable white underbase and it is not laying down white underbase doesnt mean it wont print black ink. the only time it doesnt print black ink is when you remove the color prior to dropping it onto anarip. (i remove all black from my images on photoshop before i rip if i know i am printing on a black shirt.)

hope this helps.


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## ceesiren (May 6, 2014)

Yes, that makes sense now.


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## lkt1954 (Nov 15, 2009)

Brian

Just ran 3 test shirts using this method on sport-tek st350 and they printed with no bleed (washing them now). I printed on white,safety (bright)orange and iron grey.

My question is on the gray shirt the design has orange in it and the shirt color dulls the orange. Is there anything I can do to resolve this? I presume if I print just the white underbase and then rip again, but print both the white underbase and cmyk I will get bleed.

On the orange the design has white in it and again the shirt made the white lettering dull. Any thoughts/ideas here?

Thanks
Larry


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

If you follow the procedures stated and do not print a white under base under anything with black ink you should not get any bleed. So you should be able to get a good orange ink on the grey doing this. 

On the Orange shirt, the dye is too similar to red and will dye migrate like crazy causing the white to discolor. There really isn't anything you can do about that. Now, just black on an orange would be a big contrast, but trying to get a bright white is like pulling teeth with no drugs. Just about impossible and painful as the results are not what you want. 

It definitely is not a cure all, but opens new doors for you to print different things.


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## lkt1954 (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks Brian. I get what you are saying on the orange shirts. On the grey I will try a different shade of orange to see if I can get it brighter. All three test shirts printed very good other than the issues with the orange. Will try some more tomorrow.

One last question when printing on 100% poly shirts should we stay away from any designs that have white in the design (not underbase-white part of the design)?

Thanks
Larry


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

I wouldn't say you can't have white in the design. But test so you know what you're going to get. Some colors will let you do a better white than others. I'd say try to lay down as much white as possible on the under base and all should go better if you want white on the final design.


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

Brian Walker said:


> We've been doing lighter colored garments also for quite a white, but now we've figured a way out to do darker colors (no reds yet, blacks are ok). But the GOLD shirt rocks and washability is great so far we've seen. Just a little different on procedures to do it, which we layout on the web page.
> 
> We were really excited to bring this out as it is another major step forward......


Hi Brian, besides the procedure, is the formula of IA light has been change?


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## Brian Walker (Jul 28, 2008)

No, the formula is exactly the same. It works great with just cMYK only ink prints but the procedure allows for limited white ink in color polys.


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