# Embroidery Machine Decisions (PLEASE HELP)



## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

OK, So I am taking the next step for the shop and adding an embroidery machine. We currently do Heat pressed Vinyl, Rhinestone Apparel/Decals, Sublimation, Large format printing, and vinyl decals. I have quotes coming in from Barudan, Tajim, Brother, Toyota, SWF, and ZSK. I went to a demo at SWF East today and they had a nice single head machine that looked very easy to operate. I did like the fact that they had 100% trade in value for up to a year to upgrade the machine to a 2, 4 or 6 head. Please let me know anything I should be looking for or questions to ask during the selection. The machine I was looking at was a single head 15 needle machine with the large screen that you could see the design. 

Thanks for any help. 

Matt


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

We have the barudan elite single head and its been smooth for the last 5 yrs..... only had one major breakdown in all these yrs.

I will always support barudan. Had a bad experience with swf although many on this forum would say the opposite.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I have 2 Brother PR600's - very easy to use, pretty much id10t proof... only real limitation is hoop size and 6 needles. Over 50 million stitches on one and 40 million on the other, neither have been in the shop in 5 years other than normal maintenance and to replace the needle threaders. The other nice thing with these machines is if they break, you can pick them up, put them in the back seat of your car and take them to a tech to fix instead of waiting for a tech to come to your house. Were I starting out now, I'd take a serious look at the new PR-1000.

I also have an SWF/E-1501T - more complicated to learn how to use (and not let it break itself!) but much larger sewing field and the 15 needles come in handy. Other than replacing a reciprocator due to me screwing up and hitting a hoop, it's been a good machine for the 2 years we've had it.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

If you don't decide between now and the end of February, go to the ISS show in Orlando. All vendors will be under one roof, you get to see all the machines run, and there is a lot of competition at those shows. Personally I have a Tajima and wouldn't go any other route, but I am sure the others are just as good. I have had no problems whatsoever with mine and it is a single head, and about 3 years old and run daily.

ISS Homepage


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Good point Craig, I didn't think of that...

Just something else to consider and possibly more important than the machine itself... what software are you going to use to create/edit designs? The software can cost almost as much as the machine in some cases... Most of the vendors at ISS will have show specials with discounts on the machines and/or package deals on a machine and software. That's how we purchased a machine, software and printer package.

I can't emphasize enough that you REALLY need to investigate cost, capability and stability of the software programs. We paid a lot of money for a top of the line software program. It has a LOT of capabilities but at the same time, it crashes frequently enough to be a major source of frustration. Caveat Emptor...


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

We bought a Toyota 9100NET from DataStitch. We are training at ISS Long Beach and will take the machine home on Sunday. The deciding factor for me was the availability of the X-Panta addon pantograph and border frame. This gives a sewing field of 13.5" x 47.5" without rehooping. The Toyota has a Tajima head and is made in the Tajima factory. It is essentially the same machine as a Tajima Neo2.

-James Leonard


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## irish (Dec 13, 2008)

Matt, I would recommend a Tajima Neo, Toyota 9100 or Baruan Elite Pro. Price wise, they are all in the same price range. Quality wise, they are the best.

DO NOT buy the design software the manufacturer sells. Embird is about $300 and will do everything you need for a long time to come. You can buy commercial software at a later date if you really want it.

As for the machines, they are all great workhorses and will last many years. The biggest issue is tech support in your area. Is there a tech for that type of machine close by? There are also a number of independent techs that are better than what you get from the manufacturer, if one is close to you. The other thing is that all of the 3 mentioned above can usually be fixed by you with a tech walking you through it over the phone, if you are at all mechnically inclined.

With the exception of the Brother, the other machines you mentioned are lower end products and you will give your customer a lower end product, not to mention that support is quite often an issue with these machines. The Brother is a smaller machine and has a smaller sewing field and fewer needles. Otherwise, I don't know much about the newer ones.

I seldom put down a machine, but the SWF is either love it or hate it and I have heard way too many horror stories about support to ever recommend it. I have seen the quality from an SWF and is definitely isn't as good as one of the 3 mentioned above.

Good luck in your quest!


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

irish said:


> I seldom put down a machine, but the SWF is either love it or hate it and I have heard way too many horror stories about support to ever recommend it. I have seen the quality from an SWF and is definitely isn't as good as one of the 3 mentioned above.


With all due respect, I have to disagree... I think the stitch quality has as much or more to do with the person setting the thread and bobbin tensions and choice of backing/topping as it does with which type of machine is being used. Face it, they are all pretty much mechanical stitching devices once you get past the bells and whistles. You could take any of these machines and set the tensions wrong and/or use the wrong backing/topping and the stitch quality will not be there.


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks for all the info. I have narrowed it down to Baruan, Tajima, and SWF. I am leaning towards the SWF due to the price and support. The main SWF location is about 30 minutes from our store so I figure the support will be great and if not I can jump in my car a go demand support. I also know the software is very important and plan on getting the Wilcom Deco studio. Just the start up version for now. I heard it is around $1,500. Baruan, and Tijima have support reps out of Orlando about 1 1/2 hours from the store. Figure support may be much harder to get right away from them. SWF also has a 100% trade in for a 2 4 or 6 head within the first year. Please let me know how this package sounds and if it sound like a good start-up machine and software. The SWF machine is the E1501C Single head 15 Needle with a sewing field of 18"x12". 

Oh I also get free shipping from SWF because I pick it up and the others were $700 and $800 to ship. Along with 3 days training 30 minutes from my store and not having to pay airfare and hotels for the other trainings.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I have a full size tajima 1 head (1997) & barudan 4 head (2004)-They are both wonderful machines. I use Pulse software and am very happy with it. The only other software that I would concider is Wilcom.
I realized, after the fact, that tech support and training are important factors. Although, looking back I don't think I would change anything. I'm happy with my choices.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Matt, if you want Tajima quality and local support, you can buy a TOYOTA 9100NET from Pantograms. They are just 29 minutes from your store  in Tampa, on the same street as SWF. TOYOTA and Tajima are practically the same machines, coming from the same factory in Japan. Unfortunately the software is NOT the Wilcom DecoStudio (it is called Forte) but it comes with the TOYOTA machine package deal. You can go to Tampa for a 3-day training which is also included in the price.

I hope this helps. Good luck... 

Api


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Api, that is very good to know. Is The Toyota a much better quality than the SWF machine? I really do want the local support, so I will defiantly take a look at them. Maybe even set up a demo with them as well to compare. What type of difference should I see price wise between the two? I want the best possible price, but I also want the best machine for the price. My goal is to get a quality single head unit to start. Once it becomes a major part of my business I can upgrade to a larger and better machine. I do things a little different and only pay cash for every piece of equipment I own. Started with $200 machines and now $15,000 machines. Just keep it going. Thank you so much for everyones input on this. You have all helped a ton and I am still up in the air on which to go with. A lot to think about and no need to rush the decision. 

Thanks 
Matt


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## irish (Dec 13, 2008)

tfalk said:


> With all due respect, I have to disagree... I think the stitch quality has as much or more to do with the person setting the thread and bobbin tensions and choice of backing/topping as it does with which type of machine is being used. Face it, they are all pretty much mechanical stitching devices once you get past the bells and whistles. You could take any of these machines and set the tensions wrong and/or use the wrong backing/topping and the stitch quality will not be there.


Well, I am going to disagree with you on this. Yes they are all pretty much mechanical, but that is like saying all car engines are the same - they aren't. I have looked at and compared the quality of various machines over the years and there is a definite difference between machines. Even using the exact same design, some machines will not give you the good, clean embroidery that a Tajima, Toyota, or Barudan can.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi Matt, both the SWF and the Toyota (Tajima) are excellent machines. I don't know what is the difference between them price wise, it depends on the package deal you can get. Call Pantograms on 813.839.5697 and ask for Jennifer Lasky. She will set up a demo for you and tell you about the prices.

I am NOT related to them in any way, except I am their potential customer just like you are.

Api


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

Have a look at the Balboa Threadworks website and see if Lee Caroselli will be at ISS Orlando. She is a Wilcom dealer and gives really good deals at the ISS shows. Bought her entire design catalog and I am very impressed with the quality of the digitizing.

You should see if you can negotiate changes to the package for the Toyota. Lose the Forte and get some extra consumables and upper thread tension and bobbin thread tension meters. Also a lower dead point gauge for setup. Extra spare parts too will really help in the future. If they offer repair and maintenance CDs you should get those. I plan on doing all of my own regular maintenance.

I think the SWF one year upgrade deal is highly overrrated. Most people that start out with a single head keep the single head and get a 4 to 8 head. You don't want to tie up the multi-head machine doing sewouts to test digtizing quality, small caps runs and stuff like that.

-James Leonard


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## skits (Jun 24, 2009)

irish said:


> Well, I am going to disagree with you on this. Yes they are all pretty much mechanical, but that is like saying all car engines are the same - they aren't. I have looked at and compared the quality of various machines over the years and there is a definite difference between machines. Even using the exact same design, some machines will not give you the good, clean embroidery that a Tajima, Toyota, or Barudan can.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.


agreed 100%


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Ok got some more info today on the Toyota 9100. Does anyone know if this is true and if it is why Toyota removed their name from the machine? Why would they not make a 2-4-6-8 head machine? This is what I was told today.



The 9100 is not a Toyota head.* It doesn’t have Toyota name as Toyota has removed their name from it. *it has zero association with the car company.* The Expert 9100 is a single head machine, no multiheads, no LCD screen and no quick change cap driver.* In the future if you want to move up to a multi head, then they will be trying to sell you a Meistergram.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Yep, no multi-heads. Since the machine can be easily networked an array of 9100NET machines can be a true multihead EXCEPT if one head has a thread break the rest don't stop stitching.

Don't know why the Toyota name isn't there. It is a Tajima head.

The demo I saw had a full screen display on a laptop computer networked to the machine. There is a small LCD panel if you want to load designs from a USB memory stick.

I'm not sure what a 'quick change cap driver' is. My Toyota comes with a hooping fixture that is right on the machine's stand and two cap hoops. You can hoop a cap while one is running.

The multi-head upgrade for this would be to more 9100NET systems OR Tajima multiheads. Same hoops, technology, parts, etc. DataStitch has some nice used Tajima multi-heads for sale currently.

-James Leonard


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## Ruby MHarvey (Mar 29, 2008)

Don't know about that, but I have a tajima single head had it for about 3 years know problems and I love it. I have had good support with tech they talk me through whatever help I needed over the phone. Learned so much in my training.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

If you want quality equipment I would go with Tajima or Barudan.


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## 23putts (Nov 15, 2007)

JAF said:


> If you want quality equipment I would go with Tajima or Barudan.


Enough said!!!

My advice: You can buy a 2000 - 2002 four head for what you will pay for a new single. When you get an order for 36 pieces or more you will be glad you have the multihead..

We started with a two head, added a single a year later and a four head another year later...If I had it to do over again we would have bought a single and a six....done deal...Barudan of course...


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Wow, a lot of info to take in here. So here is the new question. I have 2 machines that are going to be about the exact same price. I would like everyones honest opinion on which they would buy. 

2008 Tajima TEJTII-C1501 (aka NEO2) including Tajima Composer Software (lettering & editing)
Comes with all the same package as the new machine with hoops and stuff. 
Only a 90 warranty though
Is is being bought from tajima though and their techs have replaced any parts worn and tested. 
Onsite training and set up with additional webinar training for 1 yr free. 



SWF 1501C* 
*
6.4” LCD Panel, Laser Trace
Quick Change Cap Driver SWF East | Quick Change Cap System
USB port, Floppy Disk Drive*
Self Lubrication*
2 years parts*& labor warranty (5 years on major components)
Start-up**Accessory Kit*(needles, accessories,*backing, etc)**
Start-Up Thread Kit (65 mini spools of thread)*or (single head 15 standard cones)
Double Height Jacket Back Kit (18.5" x 12")
10 total hoops (2 3.5", 2 4 3/4", 2 5 7/8", 2 7", 2 12" x 12")
Stand with wheels
4000 Panto stock designs (mascots,*sports, etc. designs)
100 Dakota stock designs*(mascots,*sports, etc. designs)
2 days free training in one of our SWF East locations (Tampa, NJ,*Chicago)
Step by Step Training*DVD*

Trying to make the right decision for the long run of my business. Plan on buying a multiple head of the same brand once the embroidery is in more demand and cliental is up for it. Should not take long for what I have already. 

Thanks for your opinions and help with this purchase. You are all awesome!

Matt


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

90 days doesn't seems like much of a warranty but I would still go for the Tajima over SWF.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

That Tajima is the same exact year and model I have. It is a workhorse. It is built like an anvil.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi Matt, 

Were you able to collect any more info about the TOYOTA 9100? I am seriously thinking abut buying one, because (as far as I know) it IS a Tajima. 5 years garantee, free training, easily serviceable from Tampa, no freight charge, etc...

Should I check out SWF instead? (I am not going to buy a used machine). 

What is your opinion?


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

The SWF is a quality machine. I was convinced I was going to buy the SWF compact until I saw the Toyota and a car floor mat sewn on the X-Panta. That, and the noise level of the Toyota (VERY quiet) convinced me to go that way.

-James Leonard


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes, It is not a toyota 9100 anymore, it is the expert 9100. It is also not the same as the tajima head anymore. I talked with a few people that said Toyota does not have their name on it anymore not being a tajima head. It was virtually the same as a tijima head for years but it is different now from what I was told. I would not buy a used machine from another user, however since it is from hirsh and they did make sure it was in great working condition I figured it was worth it. The goal is to upgrade to the 4 head by the end of the year and this single head just doing one piece run offs. 

I am no expert on all of this, this is just what I was told in my research.


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I was told that it is coming directly from Japan, from the Tajima factory (Tokai Industrial Sewing Machines Co. Ltd.), and the head IS Tajima. 

It is time to check out what is going on with this EXPERT 9100 machine...


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Matt,

Can you share where you are getting the information about the Expert 9100? Is it SWF East by any chance? The Expert 9100NET I saw last year had a Tajima tech standing by in case it needed service...

-James Leonard


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

I think it just changed in the new models. That is why the Toyota name is not on it anymore. I was told by Swf and a actual tajima rep today. I am no expert and am trying to gather all the information possible. You know how it is. You need to talk to 20 people to find out the real truth. I am still not sure the real truth.


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## [email protected] (Dec 26, 2010)

We own two Toyota ESP9000's and they work great. We bought one new from Pantograms and one used locally. We've owned the first one for about 6 years and Pantograms has been superb as far as customer service goes. 

Their training is also very good. They go over all aspects to get you started and are available after the sale to support you. If you are at all handy with a screw driver and wrench, they can talk you through simple and even not so simple fixes. Their service department was able to talk me through a needle head removal so i could tighten a bolt on the machine.

If you need a technician, that can cost you. when we bought our used machine there was a $30 part that was bad. Cost us $500 to get it fixed. BUT... we've had very good service out of these machines and if you keep them cleaned and oiled, and dont abuse them, they should last a long time.

Pantograms also sells refurbished machines with support. Call Darla at Pantograms in Tampa.

Mike


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## stitcherlady (Jan 20, 2009)

TheDecalWorld said:


> Wow, a lot of info to take in here. So here is the new question. I have 2 machines that are going to be about the exact same price. I would like everyones honest opinion on which they would buy.
> 
> 2008 Tajima TEJTII-C1501 (aka NEO2) including Tajima Composer Software (lettering & editing)
> Comes with all the same package as the new machine with hoops and stuff.
> ...


You will regret getting any type of compact machine right away. Go with a full size - Tajima or Bauradan.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Can you elaborate your objections to a compact machine? By full size do you mean a bridge type machine? Those take up a LOT of floor space and if you are not sewing blankets I don't see the advantage.

-James Leonard


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## stitcherlady (Jan 20, 2009)

It's not just blankets, its when you want to do a full back or front on a sweatshirt or jacket(and this is a big money maker so you don't want to turn away or have the headaches because the frame is in the way). I am just saying if you plan on growing you may as well start with a full size and you won't regret it. If the business grows you will want a 4 or 6 head machine pretty fast.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I agree with Melissa, unless you never intend to sew full chest or full back then the compact machines may not be the way to go. Especially with heavy jackets, when the hoop shifts to full left or full right, you are dragging a lot of material along the sides of the machine. Now if all you want to do is hats or left chest logos then it's fine.

We've been doing this since the mid eighties. We've had Toyotas, Melcos, SWFs and Tajimas. We now own nothing but Tajimas (no Neos) and I'd never own anyting else. We're shopping used four and six heads right now and we could easily buy double the heads if we were willing to go SWF, but we're not.

Go visit the larger contract embroidery shops where they run at least two, if not three, shifts and the overwhelming majority are Tajima shops. There's a reason, actually a few reasons. Primarily, they are exceptionally well built machines. They will last a lifetime. They are fast. They sew as good as any, better than most. There are techs all over the country with Tajima experience. If you need to hire an operator, there are many more candidates out there with Tajima experience. They are worth more used than some of the lowball new machines - that shold tell you something.

My dimes worth, if asked to rank the current crop:
1. Tajima
2. Baradun
3. Return to 1 and repeat

for digitizing software:
1. Wilcom
2. Pulse
3. return to 1 and repeat...


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi Matt,

I checked out the rumors about the EXPERT 9100 and here is what I found: I received a letter from Mr. Ron Long, National Sales Manager of Pantograms Mfg. Company, in which he CONFIRMS that the EXPERT 9100 has a Tajima head. I was authorized to show this information on the T-Shirt Forum, so here are Mr. Long's own words:

_"Tokai Industrial Sewing Machine Co., Ltd is the manufacturer of the EXPERT Series embroidery machines. The TOYOTA 800, 820, 830, 9000 and 9100 models along with the EXPERT 9100 models have all had and will continue to have the Tajimahead on them. Tokai – TOYOTA (Aisin Seiki) and Tajima have been manufacturing equipment together for over 20 years now. The 9000’s and 9100’s have been built and will be continued to build in the Tokai factory. The TOYOTA 9000 technology was given to Tajima to create the Neo series. If you go back to the years pre – Neo series you will not see a Tajima that looks like a TOYOTA. They needed a compact machine to fit their product line and this is when the collaboration with TOYOTA Expert Series and the Neo began. We both ended up with the best compact single head on the market today. _

_Currently there are 17 distributors for the EXPERT Series Worldwide and Pantograms has been the number 1 distributor for many years. _

_Here is some information about the Tokai Sewing Machine Company. _

_Tokai Industrial Sewing Machine Co., Ltd. broke into the embroidery industry in 1964 with the development of the embroidery machine. Tokai Industrial Sewing Machine Co., Ltd. has produced more than 3,000 types of embroidery machines with 1 to 56 heads. We are proud of our unique quality control techniques: to ensure abrasion resistance and durability of parts, we conduct drastic quality inspections for all parts used. In addition, we are paying careful attention to our embroidery machines in the assembly lines, regardless of the machine size, in order to maintain precise production."_



I am still on the fence with this embroidery investment but I think I will jump soon.

Regards,

Api


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Great info API thanks! I have heard so many things from so many different companies that it is hard to tell what is the truth. I am still on the fence and have not made a decision. I now think I have ruled out the used tajima machine due to the warranty. For $3,000 more I can get a 5-3 year warranty and get a 2011 machine instead of 2008. I am not sure about the swf now. Once thinking about it during the demo they were trying to sew a letter H as the demo. I wanted to see a multi color intriquite design to see how it would do. Once looking at the design more and more if does not look good at all. They blamed it on the digitizer, but you would think they would have a good file that would stitch perfect for a demo. I am there to see the quality and the manufactures could not even stitch a file that looked great.

Baruden quote came in pretty high with no wiggle room. I also want to stay with the same machine in the future which I think would rule out the 9100 for the multi head part. I know you can link them, but it would be much more expensive to link a bunch on single head machines.


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## [email protected] (Dec 26, 2010)

I cant speak to any other machine other than our Toyota ESP9000's from Pantograms. Great machines, easy to work on with basic mechanical aptitude, and we have always gotton top notch support even after paying off the machines and being way out of warrenty. I even dropped one on the concrete walk moving it. The back of the machine got dinged up good and it knocked the head out of alignment. Their service department told me about a little service manual I could buy that would help me remove the head to tighten/adjust a bolt on my linear case (holds the head on with a bearing filled slide) that had come loose. They also talked me through a couple of bumps that the manual did not cover clearly and I was able to fix my own machine. Has worked great ever since.

When we bought ours in 2005 we were told about the Toyotas and Tajima NEO's being the same machine. The above statement from Ron Long at Pantograms goes along completly with what we were told 6.5 years ago.

They also sell supplies at a reasonable price. I think the site is embsupplies.com.

I literally can not say enough about the service and support we have always gotten from them.

Mike


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## api (Nov 22, 2009)

Matt, I agree with you totally. I wouldn't buy a used machine if I can get a new one with 5 year warranty for about the same price. SWF is out of question for me now, because I want to stick with Tajima. I am not sure because I am totally newbie in the embroidery business, but as far as I know, you CAN connect the Expert 9100 with the multihead Tajima machines. Practically it means that you have a complete Tajima system, but you have the EXPERT 9100 instead of the Tajima Neo. The logical step would be buying a Tajima Neo but it is a little more expensive, and the Tajima service is in Orlando. The training center is in Atlanta. It seems to me that the local service/support and the lower price justifies purchasing the EXPERT 9100 instead of the Tajima Neo. But I didn't decide yet...


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## krutoypank (Mar 3, 2009)

api said:


> Matt, I agree with you totally. I wouldn't buy a used machine if I can get a new one with 5 year warranty for about the same price. SWF is out of question for me now, because I want to stick with Tajima. I am not sure because I am totally newbie in the embroidery business, but as far as I know, you CAN connect the Expert 9100 with the multihead Tajima machines. Practically it means that you have a complete Tajima system, but you have the EXPERT 9100 instead of the Tajima Neo. The logical step would be buying a Tajima Neo but it is a little more expensive, and the Tajima service is in Orlando. The training center is in Atlanta. It seems to me that the local service/support and the lower price justifies purchasing the EXPERT 9100 instead of the Tajima Neo. But I didn't decide yet...


So I own a tajima NEO 2 and I am looking to buy another machine, and just like you doing a lot of research. I used to own melco Amaya XT for about 6 months, it was brand new and it was horrible. Ever since I got the NEO 2 I love it. I would only stick to Tajima at this point, maybe I would give Barudan a try. But anyhow, since Toyota uses forte and a different software to send their design data to machine than the tajima, I have some doubts about being able to tie them together in a networked environment. You probably will find that you'll never need to do that.
Regards


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

stitcherlady said:


> It's not just blankets, its when you want to do a full back or front on a sweatshirt or jacket(and this is a big money maker so you don't want to turn away or have the headaches because the frame is in the way). I am just saying if you plan on growing you may as well start with a full size and you won't regret it. If the business grows you will want a 4 or 6 head machine pretty fast.


Im not so sure I agree with spending the extra money on a full sized machine. Im just getting back into embroidery after about an 8 year break. Mom wanted to retire and we sold off our machines. We ran an older Barudan and then bought a brand new Tajima 12 needle when the volume picked up to that point. 

Over the course of several years running two full sized single head machines, the need to do full-fronts or full-backs was certainly not enough to justify that investment. We bought the Tajima in somewhere around '96 and ran it until '04 without any issues. Compact machines were not on the market yet. The Barudan was an older design and it was pricey to maintain, and everything required a tech to come out. Im not comparing that to todays Barudan, only sharing our experience.

If you get to the point you need to add a machine to your cache of capabilities, a second single head is not really a bad option. Orders of <30 pieces used to get ran by Mom, anything greater would get run at my place. And we never had issues with orders of 100-300 pieces. If we got in a pinch, we just ran both single heads to get-it-done.

I just two weeks ago purchased my new machine. After much shopping and number crunching I made a well informed decision to buy the SFW 1501c. Mom and I shared a discussion for the first time as she was excited to see me getting back into it. We both came out of the closet as far as admitting that her Barudan with a million miles on it always seemed to sew better than the new Tajima. 

What I know now, I'd say that any machine out there has the capabilities to sew as well as the next. The key difference being that the operator AND the digitizer need to know what works for that machine. A $5,000 digitizing program doesn't make anyone a digitizer... If price weren't a concern, yes, i'd have bought the Barudan - I'll admit it. However the countless conversations and incredible efforts that my SWFmesa rep put forth make my decision to buy the SFW a very comfortable one.

I basically just got into full single head embroidery w/digitizing for $11k and some change. In '97 when we bought the Tajima, the same capabilities cost us upwards of $30,000.

Good luck and keep us posted as to what you decide.


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Ok, so here is my issue with the swf machine. I went and got a demo of the unit and for the demo they were making a letter H. I wanted something more complex and noticed they had a gator logo in the memory. I asked to have they stitch the gator logo and this is how it turned out In The link below. This can't be a good embroidery job as if I were a customer I would not be happy with it. Look at the gators teeth and all the missed spots. Is this normal? They said it was just a bad digitized file and not the machines fault. But woundnt you think they would have a file that would stitch perfect for a demo to impress me? Look at the link below and let me know what you think? Is this normal?

[media]http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm280/thedecalworld/d56eb84e.jpg[/media]


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## AlisonB (Sep 26, 2010)

It would be interesting to know if they had increased the size of the design to do your demo'. I use Bernina software - and if a design with satin stitch is enlarged beyond a certain point it will give gaps like your example. I would re-digitize with a "satin special" stitch (or whatever it's called in your software) and there would be no more problem.
I am using an SWF1201 and am happy with it.
I agree that they could have used a better example to impress you.


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## Iconify (Nov 21, 2009)

TheDecalWorld said:


> Look at the link below and let me know what you think? Is this normal?
> 
> [media]http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm280/thedecalworld/d56eb84e.jpg[/media]


If there was no knowledge of that file just being on the machine it could have been done by someone getting trained on digitizing or who knows what it's origin.

If you want a good comparison take a single known-good file. Download a free one from someones website or just spend a few bucks for something in the appropriate format from Dakota and use that file to compare all the machines you are interested in.

Lord knows I have a number of designs in my machine that aren't customer worthy.


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes, I am not sure about the background of the file. They only had 2 files on the demo machine the letter H and the gator file. They were all very nice at SWF and helped me with any questions and concerns. The support is not at all what I am worried about knowing they are only 30 minutes from the store. It just concerns me about the quality of the finished product for my customers. I know if I wasn't sure the stitch would come out perfect for a demo customer I wouldnt run it. Then with that and the forum and Internet drilling Tajima and Baruden in my head it is a hard choice. Every big company you see on the internet and their shop it is all 50-100 heads of tajima and Baruden. I haven't see one of those images or videos with SWF or meistergrams in the shop.


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## rob young (Jan 11, 2011)

I am with you I cant deside either been looking priceing I think I am more confused now than I was the more I read the worse it gets I got prices from 
Happy
barudan 
swf
tijima
Then software some say free some say 300 some 5000 its makes me more nervous now than when i didnt know as much


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## billyhayes21 (Jun 16, 2009)

I am only at embroidery a year I have a Toyota Esp9000 it's an absolutely brill machine same parts as the tajima loads of different accessories never had a single problem with it.... 


Sent from my iPhone using TShirtForums


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Only 6 days until I can take my Expert (Toyota) ESP 9100NET home! You can see us at ISS Long Beach in the Datastitch booth being trained during the show! Then we put the machine, stand and all the goodies in a U-Haul truck and drive it home to Buena Park.

We are really getting excited now.

-James


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Awesome James. Good luck with the new machine. I am now about 95% sure what machine I am going to go with. We were going to take the show demo machine for the Orlando ISS and got the pricing on it because of the discount and free shipping that will save $1,200. Now the rep just said he would send me a brand new machine at the show or ice with free shipping. I have my finger on the trigger and think I am about to pull it!


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Good luck to you too Matt. I have very much enjoyed what you have been doing with Rhinestone decals. I am sure that you be just as innovative with embroidery.

-James Leonard


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Thank James. Yes, i can't wait to get some multiple decoration going with the embroidery involved as well with the rhinestones. Should be able to make some cool stuff.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

TheDecalWorld said:


> Awesome James. Good luck with the new machine. I am now about 95% sure what machine I am going to go with. We were going to take the show demo machine for the Orlando ISS and got the pricing on it because of the discount and free shipping that will save $1,200. Now the rep just said he would send me a brand new machine at the show or ice with free shipping. I have my finger on the trigger and think I am about to pull it!


How exciting for you. Good luck with your choice. I noticed that you will be in Orlando. I'm also going to be in there. Would you be interested in getting together with some other members for lunch, dinner or drinks?


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Judy, Thanks. Yes, I would love to meet up in Orlando. Let us know when and where. I need to find some embroidery people to pick there brain and find the right materials to buy at the show. Of course I am always willing to share any info on the rhinestones. Pm me and let me know and anyone else here heading to O-town pm me as well and we can all hook up for some drinks


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Looks like the tajima is the WINNER. I went around locally to a few different store I know hay had different machines. The shop I went to the other day had a 4 head 2 head and 1 head swf machine. The stitching on the jobs they were doing when I was there did not look great. I would be scared to have sold them to a customer. I know it could have been the digitizer but who knows. The 2 tajimas I saw looked great the the shirts and hats looked great too. Also, the owner of the swf machines said as soon as their warranty ran out it was problem aver problem with the machines. They only have 7 heads and have had to replace 3 they said in a matter of 6 years. I want to thank you all so much for all the help. 

New questions. Where is the cheapest place to buy quality thread and supplies? Also is the hoop master worth it?


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## dtprinting (Jan 12, 2011)

Looking to get into embroidery. Never have done embroidery before. What is a good machine to start out with.


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Welcome Toni, start at the beginning of this thread and you will get a lot of great answers. I had my mind made up and the helpful posts on this post changes my mind to a better quality machine.


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## Ruby MHarvey (Mar 29, 2008)

Great choice Matt, I have tajima and love it, yes, the hoop master is worth it I bought it when I got my machine and it saves so much time on hooping.
I wish you well with your machine.

Ruby


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## Ruby MHarvey (Mar 29, 2008)

There are many out there, but I have a tajima and love it had about about three or four years now no major problems, easy to learn to use I have had great tech support. Best wishes!

Ruby


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## firedrake (May 11, 2011)

Hi everyone great post and some very interesting reading, my wife and i are in the process of buying our first machine and have looked at Brother, ZSK, and also Amaya, all had different things that i found useful, brother had auto threading thought this would be good for my not so good eyes ! Amaya had auto tensioning i wasn't aware of this (wife was though) thought machine just did the stitching and that was that ! ZSK had speed this seemed faster than the other machines during demonstrations, more so over the brother than the Amaya mind. We still haven't made our minds up yet, going to have a demonstration with Tajjima and also the Baraudan one, on a side note Baraudan were the only company to offer us a machine to be delivered to our house, be trained and use it for a month and just return it if we did not want to buy it, they didn't want a penny up front neither.I have read on here someone mentioned Jacket backs we intend to do a lot of these and also Leather boots also it needs to be portable to be able to take to local fairs etc. has anyone done similar with their machines? ZSK would fit 2 needles to allow us to do leather boots free of charge. Thanks for any help. John.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I wouldn't concentrate on the bells and whistles like auto threading (I use magnifying glasses) or auto tensioning, you need to learn how to tension. If it's a commercial machine you will be able to get enough speed to do the job. As a matter of fact, you will probably never run the machine at top speed.

I have Barudan & Tajima machines and I'm happy with both of them. Take a boot with you when you check out machines. Have them hoop and embroider the boot.

You are going to want training both on the machine & on the software. How far is a training facility from where you live. The closer the better.

Good Luck with your purchase


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## ironscepter (Jun 5, 2011)

I've read quite a few people claiming that Barudan does better quality stitch than Tajima. 

Here is what barudan has to say.
Barudan | Embroidery & The Barudan Stitch

Can someone find out if it's true?


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

As I said before, I have Tajima & Barudan and they are both good. Maybe when this lady compared stitching it was a new Barudan vs a low end older machine. Digitizing also plays a part in the quality of the sewouts.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi,

I think an apples-to-apples comparison would need an independently supplied DST file that has elements that depend on stitch quality. Probably several different examples of small and medium text not supplied by any machine vendor.

Also, the fabric, thread, needle and stabilizer should be specified so the only actual difference would be the embroidery machine itself.

Anybody?

-James Leonard


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

ironscepter said:


> I've read quite a few people claiming that Barudan does better quality stitch than Tajima.
> 
> Here is what barudan has to say.
> Barudan | Embroidery & The Barudan Stitch
> ...


I firmly believe that Barudan has the better quality stitch, but, I own a Barudan and I am biased.


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## adspecialty4u (Apr 11, 2007)

tfalk said:


> With all due respect, I have to disagree... I think the stitch quality has as much or more to do with the person setting the thread and bobbin tensions and choice of backing/topping as it does with which type of machine is being used. Face it, they are all pretty much mechanical stitching devices once you get past the bells and whistles. You could take any of these machines and set the tensions wrong and/or use the wrong backing/topping and the stitch quality will not be there.


I own 16 heads, unfortunately 7 of them are SWF machines we recently added. We have to sew out pre-existing designs on the SWF to make sure it is the same quality. 75% of the time, we turn off the SWF machines, and only run the Barudans. SWF was checked by a certified tech and said machine was in perfect condition, tensions and all. There is a BIG difference in the quality of the sew.
Can't wait to dump these machines once they are paid off.


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## adspecialty4u (Apr 11, 2007)

lizziemaxine said:


> I firmly believe that Barudan has the better quality stitch, but, I own a Barudan and I am biased.


You are not biased, you are completely correct


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## oldkush (Jun 25, 2007)

My personal choice would be Tajima or Barudan. If I was considering the Tajima Neo then I would also look at the Toyota 9100 because it is exactly the same machine as the Neo.

There are some good embroidery machine groups that you may want to check out ....

Barudan
barudanowners : Barudan Embroidery Machines

Tajima
TajimaPlus : Tajima Owners Group

Toyota
toyotaEMB : toyotaEMB

SWF
SWFOwners : A group where SWF embroidery machines owners can communicate, offer tips and exchange ideas.

Happy
happyembroiderymachines : Happy Embroidery Machines

For other makes go to groups.yahoo.com and do a search

Also check out the Embroidery Business group at
embroiderybusiness : If you have a home based machine embroid




BobK


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