# anybody have an opinon about thermal screen printing?



## burningburd (Nov 4, 2006)

hey i was just browsing the other day and I came across this thing ( I don't know how long it's been around. . . all I know is that 3M USED TO make stuff for this type of screen making process. basically its a sceen that has a film one the one side instead of using emulsion, you print out your graphic with a laser printer and heat makes the film stick to the print on the paper ( thru some "wonderful" scientific reason that I don't know) thus, peel off the paper from the screen and TAH-DAH you have your screen ready to be used (under normal lighiting conditions). Anyway, the question is. . . does anybody know about this? does anyone use this?? if so what are your "pro's and con's" about it?


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## Diver86 (Dec 6, 2006)

burningburd said:


> . . . does anybody know about this? does anyone use this?? if so what are your "pro's and con's" about it?


I know _a little_ about it. There is (was?) another similar type from a company called Risco or Risso (I think). It was a Japanese co. Theirs would expose with a flash bulb. The 3M sounds like the same, it 'flashes off' with the laser light.
The scientific thing has something to do with the light being absorbed by the black print and reflecting off the white background. The reflected light keeps the white paper cool, while the black print absorbes the light and heats up and flashes off' the membrane, leaving the fine fragile mesh.


Pros:
no exposure equipment to buy
very good for hobby / personal printing
neat & clean screen making
disposable

Cons:
thin fragile threads
poor line edge definition
poor screen quality
poor stencil life
poor solvent resistance
not a good product for commercial print shops


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Diver86 said:


> There is (was?)


More was - the company still exists, but the product has been discontinued outside of Japan. For now old stock is still available, but supply probably won't last more than 1-3 years (there are some grassroots campaigns to get a 3rd party to take on supply, but that may or may not work out).



Diver86 said:


> another similar type from a company called Risco or Risso (I think).


Close - the company is Riso.


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## littleb (Jan 12, 2007)

I am a total newbie also trying to learn more about thermal printing. I would love to know whether anyone else can add an opinion to this thread.

There are options besides using a Gocco printer, but they involve access to a Thermofax machine. Many tattoo parlors use thermofax machines to create stencils from their artwork. We are friendly with the guys at two local shops who have agreed to let me use equipment.

I know that thermal printing is used regularly by textile artists to add imagery to yardage or quilts. But it appears to be possible to use it for multiple color designs as well. I'm guessing that the screens are not exceptionally durable, but could be a quick and economical way of doing short runs.

Here's a link to a resource:

Thermal Screen Supplies

I'd love to know if anyone has any further experience.


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## HeathenPeddler (Nov 30, 2006)

NEHOC Termal Screen MMaker [code:TSMA3]

Found that - it looks really interesting. Now if I knew where I could get hold of something like this gear cheap...


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## Midnightparade (Jun 21, 2009)

NO!!!!! NO!!!!! I bought a thermal copier from Nehoc..
All I can say is myself & another user on this site has bought that product & it's ughh.. as far as I know he sold his? I'm hanging onto mine out of false hope, but haven't had any luck & i've had the thing for 2yrs.

It's got to do with the carbon percentage in the toner that reacts to the heat & melts away the film on the mesh.. which is all well & good, but toner companies are trying to phase out carbon in their products!
Basically, you print out your designs in black, then run it through the machine & presto! You have a screen. ..Once again, works theoretically, but unless you can find a good printer with enough carbon you won't be able to image properly.

It is recommended that you use a lemark printer to go WITH your machine, as it has a pretty high percentage of carbon in its toner.. but of course this is not mentioned on the site!
If you want to do A4 prints, cool, grab a lexmark T series, but if you buy an A3 machine you are pretty much stuck trying to tape 2 A4 pieces together (which always left a thin blank line for me), finding somewhere than can print a carbon dense A3 image OR buy a large, clunky A3 black & white printer?! (which was $1400 SECOND-HAND when i was considering one out of desperation).

I have had so much trouble with my machine, it's left me VERY bitter & $6k+ out of pocket. I bought for my 22nd birthday aswell. Just makes you smile doesn't it?

I am yet to image a solid area successfully. If all my details burn out correctly, then I was left with at least ONE part that doesn't image properly. The guy only managed to get a solid print with my machine because he screenprinted over the same image 3 times.. which then lost all detail due to the ink bleeding- & he was printing off-contact, as though it was opaque ink (screen sits above the dark garment, allowing you to do several passes of ink to get a bright, rich coat of ink).

So, all in all, that experience left me bitter.
Perhaps after my big blow up with him he learnt from the experience & now gives customers all the details upfront, but everything I have found out came after months & months of calls/visits to him.
Also, at the time he was helping me, he also mentioned he had other people with the same problems.

INFURIATING.


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## Dibbo (Nov 24, 2011)

Lauren - thanks for the good post - sounds like you had a really bad experience - I spoke to nehoc today as I'm researching the thermal system from them and I think they have certainly changed since your problems. I guess they learnt something there - so they should by the sounds of it.

I know this is a long time now after this thread started - but I have been researching it for the last few weeks and searching about nehoc and the product - I think people should know after 2 years now it seems to have changed and the problems you had have been either been resolved or the product has changed.

I found nehoc very upfront (everyone else doesn't want to tell you anything until after you buy but these guys answered every question I had) they told me about the carbon laser artwork straight away in the very first phone call and the info is on the website from what I saw:
A3 Thermal-Copier Imaging system for screen printing and tattoo

I raised the issues you listed in your post with them (as possible problems) - they walked me through the issues pretty well and I had a feelling the guy was actually using your situation as the example as he did tell me there have been some customers that simply could not get the overall process to work and the causes are more technique and artwork than actual machine - so i'm hoping my screen printing experience is greater than what you started with to avoid the printing problems??
- or maybe just cause I read your post about 3 times while searching I matched the info up and imagined it?

So I guess the nehoc guys did learn something. Just wish the price was lower, but still pretty good compared to other options for actual screen cost considering it only takes a few minutes and your printing.

Anyhow I know it's an old thread but that's my 2cents.

Dibbo


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## Dibbo (Nov 24, 2011)

I know this is old thread, but a follow up on my info as I went and saw nehoc and the machine in action, full report in different thread:

t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t8674.html

Machine has changed to stop the problems - see my other post if your interested as it may save you further research.

Dibbo


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## Midnightparade (Jun 21, 2009)

Dibbo said:


> Lauren - thanks for the good post - sounds like you had a really bad experience - I spoke to nehoc today as I'm researching the thermal system from them and I think they have certainly changed since your problems. I guess they learnt something there - so they should by the sounds of it.
> 
> I know this is a long time now after this thread started - but I have been researching it for the last few weeks and searching about nehoc and the product - I think people should know after 2 years now it seems to have changed and the problems you had have been either been resolved or the product has changed.
> 
> ...



Hey Dibbo!

I am genuinely happy that you had a positive experience 
I certainly hope he has changed his practices, etc.

Personally,I found it highly insulting that he suggested it was a technique issue- I had the thing for months & that's all I spent my time on. Practice, practice, practice!
PLUS I'm an artist & make textiles- both require technique & working with your hands, I really don't see how I couldn't have at least got ONE screen to image properly

The ONLY way he got my machine to 'print properly' was to use a screen that didn't image properly, then use opaque ink on both light AND dark fabric & print with the frame slightly raised. THEN he went over the image so many times that it lost all detail. I was horrified seeing what he determined was an 'acceptable' print! Plus he had mentioned that he had other customers experiencing the same issues at the time aswell...

ANYWAY! Haha  Hard feelings much...
I would love to check out the improvements. I'd even give the new machine a go if people started recommending it, but due to other issues I had that I haven't mentioned I certainly wouldn't buy through Nehoc again.

Please give us an update


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

Just out of curiosity--did those of you using this system need to use nylon mesh, or proprietary screens? Not familiar with the printers being discussed, but I've always wondered about anything dubbed "thermal" because of the screen instability elevated temperatures can create.


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## Midnightparade (Jun 21, 2009)

Hey burningburd!

Yeah, these machines have specific screens. They are nylon (I think) & coated with a 'thermal film'.

The idea is that it reacts to the carbon in the toner. You don't need to wash it afterwards, just run your sqeegee over it a few times to push out excess carbon/film.

Hope that helps!





ScreenFoo said:


> Just out of curiosity--did those of you using this system need to use nylon mesh, or proprietary screens? Not familiar with the printers being discussed, but I've always wondered about anything dubbed "thermal" because of the screen instability elevated temperatures can create.


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## Dibbo (Nov 24, 2011)

I asked this question before I bought and they are a polyester mesh gules to a thermal film - only the Japanese who make the film know what the glue type and film is.

I guess that's the 'secret' that makes it all work.

Dibbo.


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm still not catching the process--do you print the image on a laser, and THEN use it in a 'thermal' machine that applies the stencil made out of the printed material to the screen?

Just curious, weird/bad stuff can happen to polyester screens when you heat them up...


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## Dibbo (Nov 24, 2011)

Midnightparade said:


> Hey Dibbo!
> 
> I am genuinely happy that you had a positive experience
> I certainly hope he has changed his practices, etc.
> ...


 
Lauren - sorry I don't get back here much except to research things.

Just went to nehoc last week to buy more stuff.
I'm mindful of your comments and the bad feelings you have for them but I'm happy and feel confident they are honest and telling it to me straight (which I prefer). They tell me when there's a problem and have been upfront on every question I ask so far.

Before i bought i did raise your situation (not your name of course) asking if anyone had returned machines as they couldn't get it working. The owner there said yes he has refunded where people could not get it to work, so knowing that if it was a complete failure I could get something back was helpful to know.

Before I bought the machine I raised all the issues you and others have mentioned (as I didn't want to get the same standard technical reply) and they did openly say they had problems in the past so it made me feel better knowing they were not trying to hide anything.

>> A side note - he didn't mention your name but having read your posts and info i think he was talking about you and said one 'lady' from Sydney could not get a solid design despite trying 10 different types of artwork, coming across several times, test printing, etc.

I asked what happened and he said and i quote from memory here 'the equipment printed the designs, but the artwork was inconsistent and screens were average so overall quality was just acceptable, but not great.' or somethign close to that.
They refunded as she (you?) could not get an acceptable result and screen printing was probably not the option what suited her needs. He thought she (you?) would go to a submibation or direct to garment type print.
- I don't want to take sides but he actually sounded sad it didn't work.

Still sounds like what you got was poor service and support - they should have swapped your machine over or solved your problems for you. Surprised you have any hair left?
At least they did refund you and didn't leave you stuck with something that didn't work (I've read about that on this forum).

I had them test my laser copy before I bought and it worked fine - both solids and lines.

The technique thing I got pretty easily as nehoc give you printing lessons now with t-shirts and instructions which they told me was a direct result of people having problems. So seems your problem caused them to change in this area too??

I have been doing basic stuff printing my old designs, a few things onto jeans, but mostly doing paying jobs for friends and small business - I really need to start taking photos of what I do, but most of the time I come home from work, have dinner then print up 20 tee's by 11pm and then go to bed and post off the next morning on the way to work.

I found using table adhesive and raising the screen to about 7mm stopped bleeding a fair bit, as less ink when through and i went over only 3 times using opaque.
Standard ink I use 2 passes and same great quality every time.

So (sort of sadly) thanks again, it seems your bad run forced changes & updates at nehoc that i'm now benefiting from it seems.

Didn't I read your getting stuff printed professionally now right? leave all the hassels for the printer hey (but less $$ in it for you doing it that way). I'll get there one day too, but the nehoc thermal system is perfect for me right now as it's super fast and pretty cheap to make a screen - I'm only starting out right now. When I get $65k would love a brother double garment DTG though!

Till I'm next on.
Dibbo


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## munkeybiz (Feb 2, 2018)

Does anyone know about thermal printers? Riso makes them for insane prices. Regular emulsion works by uv light
. Riso screens work by heat rather than light. I’m thinking of another less costly source to print Riso screens. I print more for artistic reasons rather than strictly commercial. I’m open to experiment with various methods and products to see what happens. Thanks.


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