# What printer for sublimation



## EagleEyes (Nov 10, 2014)

Hello guys,

I don't know if i put this in the right area, but i have a few questions about types of ink, transfers and printer choice.

There are a few types of transfer. But i read that the normal way with transfer paper is only washable like 40 times. Now i read about Sublimationtransfer which has great colors and washable up to 200 times. Is there a downside to sublimation and what is it?
And are there (epson) printers i could use for sublimation if possible under 250 euro's (300 dollars, 200 pounds)
And which one are those and how can i use sublimation ink in them. 
And is there any type of transferfoil/paper you guys recommend?

What other types of textile printing are there with a affordable printer which are good and when are they best to use??

A lot of questions haha but i really hope you guys can help me with this.

Ivo


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## theLeffla (Oct 30, 2014)

At my store we use an Epson 1430, with AR tanium sublimation ink. You have to buy an ink flow system. Basically it converts your system to a bulk ink bag system instead of cartridges. The ink can be expensive but lasts awhile. the printer is not that bad cost I think we paid 330 US. I get fantastic colors from it, if you are printing onto a white sublimate material. Also I end up using TexPrint XP transfer paper.


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## EagleEyes (Nov 10, 2014)

Hello thanks for the answer!

Could you (or anyone) tell me whats the difference between the ways of printing on textile with a printer?

for example why not always use sublimation ink? since that has great colors and is washable.

ivo


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## theLeffla (Oct 30, 2014)

EagleEyes said:


> Hello thanks for the answer!
> 
> Could you (or anyone) tell me whats the difference between the ways of printing on textile with a printer?
> 
> ...


Well it depends. There is screen printing, transfers, and sublimation. Those are the ones I know and use at my store, each type has there place. Depends on the art, and what look you're trying to achieve.


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## ejnrby (Oct 20, 2014)

EagleEyes said:


> Hello thanks for the answer!
> 
> Could you (or anyone) tell me whats the difference between the ways of printing on textile with a printer?
> 
> ...


You can only sublimate into Polyester fibers. So for the best results, you have to use a 100% polyester shirt. If you were to use a 50% Cotton/50% Polyester shirt, half of the dyes wouldn't actually stick after one washing.


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## EagleEyes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks for the replies guys.

So sublimation only for polyester.
Is there a way to make the transfers with pigment based inks more dureable for washing??

And what is screen printing and what are the advantages and disadvantages of it??

Ivo


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

EagleEyes said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.
> 
> So sublimation only for polyester.
> Is there a way to make the transfers with pigment based inks more dureable for washing??
> ...


 Pigment inks are wash durable. It's the paper that matters. I use JPSS. IYA inkjet for lights (AKA Iron all) is also good.

Screen printing can handle dark fabrics and in large volume is more economical. You cannot achieve the same resolution with screen printing ... you can't get real photographic quality


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## EagleEyes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks for the answers guys.

So one last question.. if a company has a logo you can't do with flexfoil and they dont want it (whats the word) embroided(?).

Then what would be the best option to print their logo on the clothing but it still being top notch quality?? washable no cracking etc.

ivo


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## theLeffla (Oct 30, 2014)

EagleEyes said:


> Thanks for the answers guys.
> 
> So one last question.. if a company has a logo you can't do with flexfoil and they dont want it (whats the word) embroided(?).
> 
> ...


Screen printing is still the best way to print logos. That is to say when they give you an art file and realize not every logo looks good on different materials. I swear I spend about half my work week recreating logos so that they can be printed.


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## EagleEyes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks for the info man 

If anyone has something to add of course always welcome.

ivo


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## zzPrint (Nov 19, 2014)

I agree, in your price range, the Epson 1430 with Artainium ink is probably your best bet.


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## theLeffla (Oct 30, 2014)

Make sure if you do decide to go with the Epson 1430, you realize you will need to buy the bulk ink system separately. Then after that I would suggest to download the subliq ink driver for the printer the one for Artanium does not get close to the colors I get from the subliq


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

EagleEyes said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I don't know if i put this in the right area, but i have a few questions about types of ink, transfers and printer choice.
> 
> ...


 Best value hands down.

https://cobraink.com/Printers/epson7110.htm

ICC support and the inks are about *1/5 the price of Artainium inks*. I used Artanium ink for many years before there was a viable alternative to Sawgrass, the "K" inks *suck*, more like an eggplant color of black.

Welcome to the post Sawgrass era.


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## theLeffla (Oct 30, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Best value hands down.
> 
> https://cobraink.com/Printers/epson7110.htm
> 
> ...


You can knock out the ICC support just by going with the Subli Q driver prints beautifully!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

theLeffla said:


> You can knock out the ICC support just by going with the Subli Q driver prints beautifully!


Sorry but that dog don't hunt, no offense.

1. I would _never_ print with an ICC or color management utility that was designed for a different ink and not the one at hand, could easily be proven with test photos I use and a good ICC. 

What this proves is that the Artanium ICC you used _sucked_, and that the Sublijet Power Driver did a better job only because the ICC offered _sucked_. 

I used Artainium with Conde profiles before, they made their own and didn't offer Sawgrass ICC. They were much better. 

2. Artainium inks you can't fix the eggplant black "K" ink with a profile,_ it is was it is._

3. Artanium inks are too expensive. I left Artanium a long time ago for Cobra. Hands down they are superior in price, quality, ink delvery options, and printer models covered.

The Sawgrass era is over for Epson printers.


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## theLeffla (Oct 30, 2014)

I will need to check out cobra, however not using an ICC designed by sawgrass is agreebly a better choice, and I guess I am not sure about this eggplant black, because I am getting solid K over here.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

theLeffla said:


> I will need to check out cobra, however not using an ICC designed by sawgrass is agreebly a better choice, and I guess I am not sure about this eggplant black, because I am getting solid K over here.


In most cases your "blacks" are made from a composite CMY and not from pure "K".

I do a lot of B&W high gloss art tiles, if you force the Epson driver into B&W only and grayscale (forcing K), then you will see it. 

Artanium has never changed their K, it has been this way since they first came out.


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## Hebiki (Apr 4, 2013)

so... being the noob that I am.... i bought an Epson Artisan 1430. Probably should have purchased an Epson 7110. Will the 1430 be better since it uses 6 color cartridges? (Probably costs more in the long run as well?)


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Hebiki said:


> so... being the noob that I am.... i bought an Epson Artisan 1430. Probably should have purchased an Epson 7110. Will the 1430 be better since it uses 6 color cartridges? (Probably costs more in the long run as well?)


 In theory yes, but the extra colors won't show up much improvement unless you have a high gloss substrate AND your profile is created with the best equipment that can capture the increased gamma.

On regular substrates it could show improvement if you have a trained eye or your customers do AND the source material has a wider color gamut. Gradients show up smoother with additional colors.

For me the extra 2 colors mean additional possibility of clogging due to more heads and more ink costs from maintenance. So I weight the pros vs. cons.

If I wanted the absolute best then I would go 8 colors, buy large format, have a RIP, and have the ICC _custom_ to MY printer, not generic to my printer model. But for this $$$.


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## Hebiki (Apr 4, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> In theory yes, but the extra colors won't show up much improvement unless you have a high gloss substrate AND your profile is created with the best equipment that can capture the increased gamma.
> 
> On regular substrates it could show improvement if you have a trained eye or your customers do AND the source material has a wider color gamut. Gradients show up smoother with additional colors.
> 
> ...


well if this takes off like i hope it does...then yes.. i can definitely utilize the wider range of colors. but i think for now, i won't open it and just return it.

thanks for the reply.


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## Megajet (Oct 15, 2015)

Hi Sublimation contains a dye that reacts to heat and pressure missing the liquid Phase and returning to a solid. But reacts only to 
synthetic material. It is possible to coat cotton with synthetic polyester coating and then sublimate to it but was and color vibrancy are not are good as direct to fabric. With regards to your selection of ink Cobar or Sawgrass the key color is black they all originate from China where all the dyes for sublimation are made with the small exception of Japan.

The combination of paper ink profile and heat transfer paper you use will influence your results. In respect of color reproduction no profile is ever perfect my suggestion is build your own using an Xrite Ione its a bit of work but the good news is when a color doesn't match you can adjust it. Another good investment is dedicated rip software Wasatch do a cheap one. Last thing to mention don't forget your monitor outputs color in RGB format your printer outputs in CMYK thats where the skill comes in what you see is not always what you get build your own colors and give those colors for your customer to select makes life allot easier that playing with ICCs and multiple profiles.

Hope this helps good luck in your quest.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Megajet said:


> Hi Sublimation contains a dye that reacts to heat and pressure missing the liquid Phase and returning to a solid. But reacts only to
> synthetic material. It is possible to coat cotton with synthetic polyester coating and then sublimate to it but was and color vibrancy are not are good as direct to fabric. With regards to your selection of ink Cobar or Sawgrass the key color is black they all originate from China where all the dyes for sublimation are made with the small exception of Japan.
> 
> The combination of paper ink profile and heat transfer paper you use will influence your results. In respect of color reproduction no profile is ever perfect my suggestion is build your own using an Xrite Ione its a bit of work but the good news is when a color doesn't match you can adjust it. Another good investment is dedicated rip software Wasatch do a cheap one. Last thing to mention don't forget your monitor outputs color in RGB format your printer outputs in CMYK thats where the skill comes in what you see is not always what you get build your own colors and give those colors for your customer to select makes life allot easier that playing with ICCs and multiple profiles.
> ...


Nothing personal Tony but I have to challenge some of your statements.

1. Cobra inks are USA made.

"US Made Sublimation Ink". Those base dyes are not from China or Japan. And many disperse dye (base dye) are USA made.

https://cobraink.com/ink/4-6_color_Sublimation.htm

Having said that, suppose those were from China (even though they are not) what is your point? What do you mean by "the key color is black", what does that have to do with what printer to buy?

2. WASATCH is a *horrible* investment for a desktop printer, which is the topic here. The _desktop_ printers discussed in this thread are 0% compatible with that RIP you mention. The OP's question was.

"And are there (epson) printers i could use for sublimation if possible under 250 euro's (300 dollars, 200 pounds)". 

On top of that who buys RIP software costing often in the $1500 - $2000 range for a printer that costs under $300, even if my printer was supported. Not me. 

3. Your mention of "your printer outputs in CMYK" is misleading.

While the carts are CMYK (or CMYLKLMY or CMYLKLMLKLLKK) inkjet printers should never be considered as a CMYK device. 

A $$$ RIP could allow CMYK source material, however, the RIP compatibility and cost issue exists for desktop printers.

Per Epson

Support & Downloads - Epson Stylus Photo PX710W - Epson

"Epson inkjet printers are RGB devices, designed to process and print RGB data from other RGB devices and applications.You will require a Postscript printer driver or 'RIP' in order to print CMYK data or have access to all printing features when using Postscript-heavy applications such as InDesign and QuarkXPress"

Per Adobe

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/printing-photoshop.html

"If your image is in RGB mode, do not convert the document to CMYK mode when printing to a desktop printer. Work entirely in RGB mode. As a rule, desktop printers are configured to accept RGB data and use internal software to convert to CMYK. If you send CMYK data, most desktop printers apply a conversion anyway, with unpredictable results."

While the printer will eventually convert to CMYK (or C/M/Y/LK/LM/K or C/M/Y/LK/LM/LK/LLK K etc) the color management, workspaces, and profiles are all RGB.

And I should point out this thread is over 1 year ago since the last post. Figure the OP had made his printer decision a long time ago perhaps.


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