# Ricoh GX e3300N printing wide bands



## kjhbike (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey all. I bought a 3300N just over a year ago for the reliability issue as I don't do a lot of sub work and didn't want to deal with my epson clogging any longer.

Tonight I turn it on to run a job and I get these brutal blacl/blue bars all over my page. I've run nozzle checks, cleanings, and flushings but to no avail. It hasn't improved one bit. I haven't seen this one before or seen a post in regards to it so thought I'd better ask for help.

I know the picture is terrible and apologize for that, but it is the two large bands I'm trying to rectify.

Thanks


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

How long since you last used it?


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## poggeldi (Mar 16, 2009)

i had exactly the same problem. i haven't used the printer for about 5 days an suddenly these bars appeared. I tried several things/cleanings etc. but nothing helped. Meanwhile the printer won't turn on anymore... :-( Luckily Ricoh will replace the printer today. But i ask myself if i should use the "old" cartridges any longer?


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## kjhbike (Mar 10, 2009)

bungy said:


> How long since you last used it?


A couple of weeks. But the nozzle check looks clean other than these bands. Regardless of what I print they show up in roughly the same spacing.


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## kjhbike (Mar 10, 2009)

So I contacted Conde and was told the best they could do was to offer me a discounted price on a new printer. This is a printer that is 13-14 months old and has had not even two sets of ink carts put through it.

I was then told if I contacted sawgrass they would supply me with one free ink cart.

So for my troubles I get the ability to buy a discounted printer (refurb?) at $150. Then I'll pay shipping and brokerage fees (I'm in Canada so it's international freight which instantly doubles it plus the customs brokerage fees of about another $35) of probably another $120, then I'm going to replace 3 of 4 ink carts at $60 each for another $180. So I'm at a $450 replacement cost on this printer that is just over a year old and has less than two sets of ink carts through it. Boy, I'm pleased as punch.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Sorry for the issue.
On a replacement printer, does not sound
right about the fees.

Call us tomorrow and let's see if we can do
better.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

These machines suck I think I may as well buy chinese at least we know its junk.


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## BigRigGrafix (Sep 1, 2011)

David Gross.
I applaud you for taking the initiative in an attempt to make the customer happy! I just recently bought the same printer from your company and am very happy with it but, bought a press from some other company and was very disappointed with their customer service when the press was lost during shipping and then didn't work when it arrived. But seems like you guys want to help your customers (i.e.: the You- Tube instructional videos; friendly, courteous tech support). Keep up the good work.
 Kelly, hope all works out well for you.

Dru Rigney
BigRig Grafix


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Thank you.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Good luck being a dealer with these Ricoh things because trust me you are lining up a whole bunch of trouble, the giys I bought from have disappeared, wonder why?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Big Al said:


> Good luck being a dealer with these Ricoh things because trust me you are lining up a whole bunch of trouble, the giys I bought from have disappeared, wonder why?


Big AL - please keep in mind this is NOT a Ricoh printer issue. The Sawgrass Cartel is very experienced at shifting blames for poor quality ink onto Epson and now Ricoh. Epson printers do not clog UNLESS they are fed poor quality ink from Sawgrass. They work flawlessly with high quality ink.

Ever hear about mass Ricoh failures outside of dye sub? Of course not. 

There is so much revenue generated from high priced ink that Sawgrass and their distributors ignored the consumers and continued to knowingly sell a product with known significant issues. The only thing they missed is the power of a forum like this where the problem comes to light and shared by the users. 

Imagine if you or I continued selling defective products to our customers for over a year? 

Shame on all of them.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Of course you are right but if thats the case why didnt Ricoh specifically curtail the sale of these systems, it was in their hands they could have stopped supplying the likes of Magic Touch etc. Or they could have stuck a damned great label on the thing catagourically stating that it WILL FAIL if used with dye sublimation inks. I wonder why they were happy to go along with it? I am surprised in the US the land of litigation someone has not taken writs out against these companies for this. And yes I agree the Sawgrass product is to blame so take the wretched patent off them and see if another company can produce the goods that will work. If I was talking about a cheap throw away printer here I wouldnt be so sore but look at the prices of theses systems £850???


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Big Al said:


> Of course you are right but if thats the case why didnt Ricoh specifically curtail the sale of these systems, it was in their hands they could have stopped supplying the likes of Magic Touch etc. Or they could have stuck a damned great label on the thing catagourically stating that it WILL FAIL if used with dye sublimation inks. I wonder why they were happy to go along with it? I am surprised in the US the land of litigation someone has not taken writs out against these companies for this. And yes I agree the Sawgrass product is to blame so take the wretched patent off them and see if another company can produce the goods that will work. If I was talking about a cheap throw away printer here I wouldnt be so sore but look at the prices of theses systems £850???


I understand your frustration as this issue caused a riff in our family but understand the issue whether it is Epson or Ricoh is not dye sublimation ink. It is Sawgrass dye sublimation ink specifically. The Cartel loves to cloud the issue by bringing in Ricoh and Epson into the mix and they do it really well. They used the "Epsons clog" battle cry to get people to switch to Ricohs. Is it Epsons issue when the printer clogs and heads are destroyed because of Sawgrass ink? Of course not. Again the issue with the printers (Epson or Ricoh) is NOT dye sublimation ink. It is Sawgrass ink. We had an Epson for several years before replacing with a Mutoh. Using high quality ink from J-Teck we had no issues with clogging - none. There seems to be an alternative ink for the Ricoh through Cobra Ink. Not sure what they results regarding printer failures are with their ink but it may be worth exploring. 

Do not let them cloud the issue - this is a Sawgrass ink issue not a dye sublimation ink issue.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Well I tell you what I am sure I am not alone in this I am now contemplating putting all my dyesub stock on ebay and concerntrating on other things, the fact that Sawgrass has that patent granted and held worldwide by some backwater local court is going to bring this industry to its knees and cost thousands of jobs worldwide. Something seriously needs to be done about this situation as they clearly are not worthy holders of the patent or the subsequent cartel.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Big Al said:


> Well I tell you what I am sure I am not alone in this I am now contemplating putting all my dyesub stock on ebay and concerntrating on other things, the fact that Sawgrass has that patent granted and held worldwide by some backwater local court is going to bring this industry to its knees and cost thousands of jobs worldwide. Something seriously needs to be done about this situation as they clearly are not worthy holders of the patent or the subsequent cartel.


Al,

I realize you are not in the US so I can't comment on your options. But to bring clarity to the situation in the US.

The _scope_ of the SG '907 patent was clarified in the Markman Ruling of the TOG vs. SG litigation. 

http://www.mgparrish.com/17711722614.pdf 

What it boils down to is that solution to the problem the SG patent defined was to use a chemical agent to ...

Disperse and stabilize heat-activated dye solids within a liquid solvent 

*AND* 

protect the dye solids from exposure to heat prior to printing

*AND*

during the printing process. 

"Printing" does not mean heat transfer to a substrate.

When SG was developing the _art_ of the patent they were not targeting piezo ink jet printers because they were not around. 

Around the time in-between the patent was filed and the patent was granted, Epson introduced the piezo ink jet printer.

Piezo inkjet printers (like Epson) do not use heat to transport ink into the printer, they use electrical charge to move the inks into the printhead. 

HP and Canon use _heat_ to transport the inks and are classified as "thermal ink jet". HP and Canon was in the ink jet printer market before Epson and those are the printers SG targeted for the '907 patent.

Heat is a bad thing for sublimation if the inks are subjected to heat before you heat transfer on a heat press. The sublimation dyes will clump and may even start to "sublimate" inside the printhead. So this is the problem that SG was attempting to solve and got a patent for.

It's real simple, if someone formulates a sublimation ink for Epson printers they do not need to add a chemical to protect the dye particles from heat as _no heat mechanism exists in those printers_. In effect Epson printers came along and it is not necessary to solve that heat problem.

While the patent was not invalidated or modified by the court as the lawsuit resulted in a mutually agreed settlement where TOG got big $$$, future lawsuits from Sawgrass against others are *forever* *poisoned* by the fact that the Markman hearing includes testimony _under oath_ from SG's expert (and inventor named on the '907 patent) that the patent does include a heat limitation.

SG initially argued that their patent did not require a heat limitaton, but during that Markman hearing they admited it does include a heat limitation. Even though the there was an out of court agreement that was reached, SG can't undo their testimony or the conclusions from that Markman hearing. _It's forever in the public record._

As to the "cartel" ... this exists because SG has _business agreements_ with those in the "cartel"; they cannot sell a competing ink. 

For those that do try to sell competing inks and also sell SG inks, then SG can refuse to sell inks to a "cartel" member anymore. This means the "cartel" members would have to turn away all the already installed users of SG inks and lose $$$$ when users reorder inks if they (SG ink vendors) "diss" SG and go with a competing ink. So SG still has leverage with those in the "cartel" that resell the SG inks. 

As I mentioned you are not in the US, but for those that are, when you state ...

"Something seriously needs to be done about this situation as they clearly are not worthy holders of the patent or the subsequent cartel."

Something has been seriously done here in the US, we don't have to buy sublimation inks from a "cartel" member.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

I have been thinking about this over the weekend and am tempted to make some phone calls or write some letters during the week. I dont know about the US bit over here there are anti-competition laws in place overseen by the monopolies commission that do not allow cartels and the like and I am wondering if they may be interested in looking at this. I didnt particularly like the reply from my ink suppliers tech man who basically said what do you expect the inks will damage the printer and two years max is all you can expect. Well I wat to know where is this anywhere on their site and as they are selling the printer and inks as a package for the job IMHO they are simply not suitable. We also have consumer laws that extend beyound the 1 year statatory guarantee period and would be interested to know what the Trading Standards office have to say about this. Unfortunately in my case I never bought the printer as a package from a sublimation supplier but bought the printer and inks separately and not sure if this weakens my case somewhat. If I had bought as a package I would be phoning them Monday and suggesting they replace it with new inks or I take it further.

As a matter of interest how on earth can Ricoh claim to be innocent parties in this? Surely they must be selling bundles of these machines to companies like Magic Touch and Listerwoods, what do they think they are doing with them, do they not check out their websites? No of course they must be fully aware and must be sancioning this even if unofficially.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Big Al said:


> I have been thinking about this over the weekend and am tempted to make some phone calls or write some letters during the week. *I dont know about the US bit over here there are anti-competition laws in place overseen by the monopolies commission that do not allow cartels and the like and I am wondering if they may be interested in looking at this.* I didnt particularly like the reply from my ink suppliers tech man who basically said what do you expect the inks will damage the printer and two years max is all you can expect. Well I wat to know where is this anywhere on their site and as they are selling the printer and inks as a package for the job IMHO they are simply not suitable. We also have consumer laws that extend beyound the 1 year statatory guarantee period and would be interested to know what the Trading Standards office have to say about this. Unfortunately in my case I never bought the printer as a package from a sublimation supplier but bought the printer and inks separately and not sure if this weakens my case somewhat. If I had bought as a package I would be phoning them Monday and suggesting they replace it with new inks or I take it further.
> 
> As a matter of interest how on earth can Ricoh claim to be innocent parties in this? Surely they must be selling bundles of these machines to companies like Magic Touch and Listerwoods, what do they think they are doing with them, do they not check out their websites? No of course they must be fully aware and must be sancioning this even if unofficially.


You bring up an interesting point, but a patent is a legal monopoly _within it's scope_, a good read of the US situation is here.

http://www.rkmc.com/A_Lawful_Monopo...n_Antitrust_and_Intellectual_Property_Law.htm


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mgparrish said:


> You bring up an interesting point, but a patent is a legal monopoly _within it's scope_, a good read of the US situation is here.
> 
> http://www.rkmc.com/A_Lawful_Monopo...n_Antitrust_and_Intellectual_Property_Law.htm


 
Link is weird from this Forum editor. Copy and paste into a browser

http://www.rkmc.com/A_Lawful_Monopoly_The_Intersection_Between_Antitrust_and_Intellectual_Property_Law.htm


Take out the space in "antitrust", this editor hoses the link


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Big Al said:


> As a matter of interest how on earth can Ricoh claim to be innocent parties in this? Surely they must be selling bundles of these machines to companies like Magic Touch and Listerwoods, what do they think they are doing with them, do they not check out their websites? No of course they must be fully aware and must be sancioning this even if unofficially.


You are a Sawgrass/Sawgrass Cartel dream come true. You have bought into their propanda that Ricoh is somehow involved. Do you realize that the number of dye sub related printer sales are such a very small, almost microscopic portion of printer sales to worldwide companies such as Ricoh or Epson? You really expect these companies to police how and where their printers are being used? I would guess in many cases dye sub printers are even bought through distributors not even the manufacture. 

You cannot seem to get it clear in your head that it is not a dye sub issue but a Sawgrass issue. Thinking Ricoh or Epson has the responsibility to check to see which ink is being used in their printers is insane. 

The Cartel thanks you for buying into their propaganda as if you believe Ricoh is at fault you will most likely believe the problem was fixed in early January as they also stated.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

> You cannot seem to get it clear in your head that it is not a dye sub issue but a Sawgrass issue. Thinking Ricoh or Epson has the responsibility to check to see which ink is being used in their printers is insane.


Oh you are so right and why is that? I will tell you why it is as I recollect when all this hit the fan. I used to use another comanies inks supplied by Listerwoods and another company over her (Transfer Press?) then one day I went to reorder and was told because of this crazy ruling by some back water judge in the US that shouldnt even effect us in the UK they can no longer sell the product and I have to by Sawgrass stuff, so theres the reason not that I have been hyped into buying the ruddy product I had no bloody choice!!!!!! 

Now if you know an alternate product I can buy in the Uk that works and will not balls up the new printer that I now have to buy what ever model that will be I am all ears i would even contemplate being an agent this side of the pond if the system is reliable. I am not saying Ricoh are complicite in the scam just that they must be aware of it and surely its there duty as a responsible company to advise against the use of Sawgrass inks in their machines because trust me mud sticks and right now at this moment for whatever reason I have a distinctly nasty taste in my mouth at the mention of Ricoh and doubt I will buy their products again and bear in mind I bought a £14,000 laser copier off them once! However my real beef is with the resellers like Magic Touch and their attitude relating to the product they sell. If I had opened the box on my brand new Ricoh printer and there was a big warning in there or better still on the box itself DO NOT USE THIS PRINTER WITH SAWGRASS INKS AS IT WILL DEFINITELY DAMAGE THE MACHINE then I and thousands of others would never have used the system, thats their responsibility to do that. Also if such a warning did come with the machine it would shut down the scam immediately and the involved companies would have to get their acts together.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi Big Al,

CobraInk.com will ship to the UK. They say they will even send a printer with a CIS but you have to change the power supply... Do NOT confuse them with CobraInks.com - they are not affiliated or related at all.

The solution I am implementing is an Epson workforce 1100, Cobra HiTemp ink and a utility called Harvey Head Cleaner to print nozzle checks regularly to prevent clogging. In your case you would want to buy the epson locally and then get just the refillable carts (or a CIS kit) from cobra. There are a LOT of enthusiatic Cobra dye sub users.

You can contact Richard and ask if his carts fit a B1100 (the UK epson model I believe).

.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began 

-James


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

That looks interesting. The B1100 is availble over here for a reasonable price. Are the HiTemp inks their name for Dye Sublimation inks?


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes,

due to some issues with Sawgrass they are not allowed to use the word 'sublimation'. But they are indeed dye sub inks.

Be sure to consult with Richard. He has ICC profiles for his inks and a workforce 1100. You should ask about compatibility with the printers you can source in the UK.

-James


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks James I will contact him. I see they also did ink for my now defunct Ricoh machine.


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## jemmyell (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi again,

Some advice. His CIS systems are really nice but installing one voids the epson warranty. SO, try the refillable carts. If an issue arises you can reinstall the OEM carts and take the printer in for warranty service.

-James


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

That sounds like a plan, then go for the bulk system once the the warranty is out.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jemmyell said:


> Yes,
> 
> due to some issues with Sawgrass *they are not allowed to use the word 'sublimation'*. But they are indeed dye sub inks.
> 
> ...


I can't fathom what you are saying as being accurate, perhaps it's just how you form your language 

I can't speak for what Cobra's motivation was to decide to not use the term "sublimation" and call it something else (HT), but when you say they are "not allowed to use the word 'sublimation'" ....

Who does not allow them to say that ... Sawgrass? The speech police?

Why would Sawgrass dis-allow them to use the term "sublimation" but still "allow" them to sell competing sublimation inks? Did SG just up and say "It's OK to sell competing inks as long as you call them something else"? 

If SG has such power over them why wouldn't SG just tell them "you can't sell sublimation inks"? Would they (SG) be more interested in preserving their physical market or keep a monopoly on what something is called? And the term "sublimation" is in the public domain and not capable of a a copyright or a trademark claim, so SG can't monopolize the term "sublimation" 

If SG has the rights to the term "sublimation" then when I buy sublimation coated tiles why don't I see in fine print somewhere in the ads or the webpage "Sublimation is a registered trademark of Sawgrass Inc.". If I buy software that runs under Windows there is usually a reference to "Windows is a registered trademark of the Microsoft Corporation".

I can only _speculate_ that Cobra made a _decision_ to not use the term "sublimation" perhaps early on when they brought "HT" to the market to stay under the radar. But that is not the same as saying "they are not allowed to". 

As for staying under the radar .... that cat has been out of the bag for a long time now, I have heard from someone I deem reliable that SG offered Cobra a license some time ago and Cobra declined as Cobra doesn't believe the scope of the SG patent is applicable to their "HT" inks.

Whatever the case, the first time someone spoke about "Cobra HT" on a forum somewhere rest assured SG got wind of it. With all the SG vendors populating the forums there cannot be any "secret sublimation society".


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Big Al said:


> That sounds like a plan, then go for the bulk system once the the warranty is out.


I think you are not reading the post correctly ..

"If an issue arises you can reinstall the OEM carts and take the printer in for warranty service."

For desktop printers Epson (at least in the US) does a quick exchange (usually with a refurb), they don't fix your specific printer and send it back that same exact printer to you. 

Unless you send it to them all bashed up and obviously abused, Epson will just send those warranty printers to a factory that they will refurbish and provide as an exchange unit later for someone elses warranty claim..


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

I would speculate two possible scenrios for that. (A) to divorce themselves of the bad press Dye Sublimation on small format printers must have now and is increasing. And (B) to be on the safe side of any possible litigation from smart lawyers.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

But surely thats what James was saying, prehaps if the CIS bulk system is fitted there could be physical evidence of that when you returned under warranty although I will say if its the same as this also redundant R1800 sitting under my desk when I took the bulk system off of that there is no evidence its ever been on there. I am still a bit wary of the Epson range after the R1800 as it wasnt just the clogging that could have been down to the inks, I had loads of problems with the paper feed as well. Also I have just slaughtered away an Epson large format printer on ebay because they no longer do replacement heads for it and the thing was immaculate and perfect apart from one head.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Big Al said:


> But surely thats what James was saying, prehaps if the CIS bulk system is fitted there could be physical evidence of that when you returned under warranty although I will say if its the same as this also redundant R1800 sitting under my desk when I took the bulk system off of that there is no evidence its ever been on there. I am still a bit wary of the Epson range after the R1800 as it wasnt just the clogging that could have been down to the inks, I had loads of problems with the paper feed as well. Also I have just slaughtered away an Epson large format printer on ebay because they no longer do replacement heads for it and the thing was immaculate and perfect apart from one head.


He stated 

"If an issue arises you can reinstall the OEM carts and take the printer in for warranty service."

If you had to permanently modify the printer for the CIS, and not able to return to a normal "look", then that could be an issue. But ask Cobra if the printer can be returned to normal for warranty purposes if it is something not CIS related, I believe Cobra would cover any CIS related issues.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Big Al said:


> I would speculate two possible scenrios for that. (A) to divorce themselves of the bad press Dye Sublimation on small format printers must have now and is increasing. And (B) to be on the safe side of any possible litigation from smart lawyers.


I Can't comment on "A", however, for "B" calling something different to avoid patent litigation is anything but safe. Being safe is making sure your product does not infringe on the claim scope of the patent. A smart lawyer won't be fooled by calling something different. 

If I had a patent on a "car" then just because someone calls their product a "vehicle" doesn't mean it is not a car.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Only Richard knows why they do not call it sublimation ink but I would guess there is a legal issued involved. 

One may say the cat is out of the bag and people know about the alternative ink but in reality it is not out of the bag. How would anyone know there is an alternative ink that is not on this forum? I would guess maybe 5-10%, if that, of dye subers even know of this forum. Google dye sublimation ink - see anything regarding Cobra Ink? Nothing - zero.

Just a guess but Cobra has to be such a small pimple on Sawgrasses back side that it is not worth their effort. Start throwing around the "dye sublimation" term where people could actually find it may put Sawgrass into action.

I do not think the patent issue is anything close to black and white. If it was there would be a slew of people selling dye sub ink as dye sub ink to the desktop market. Why would not a J-Teck sell to the desktop market if there really is no patent protection? Why are companies still paying licensing feees if there is no patent protection. One has to assume Sawgrass has very deep pockets and very well versed on the patent issue. That only makes it a very expensive proposition to challenge it.


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## Big Al (Feb 3, 2008)

I have to agree with the above post. I had no idea there was another solution and have googled dye sublimation printers, alternate dye sublimation inks etc etc and do not come up with anything which was why I was so depressed at the prospect of spending more money with SG I think I may even have walked away from the process. I also made a couple of phone calls this end to see if anyone else was supplying anything other than SG products and was told by their technical they only supply SG inks because they are the finest on the market, yeah right! I said well stand by for a lot of disgruntled customers as these Ricoh machines burn out.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Big Al said:


> I have to agree with the above post. I had no idea there was another solution and have googled dye sublimation printers, alternate dye sublimation inks etc etc and do not come up with anything which was why I was so depressed at the prospect of spending more money with SG I think I may even have walked away from the process. I also made a couple of phone calls this end to see if anyone else was supplying anything other than SG products and was told by their technical they only supply SG inks because they are the finest on the market, yeah right! I said well stand by for a lot of disgruntled customers as these Ricoh machines burn out.


I actually quit for about 4-6 months when I was in the desktop world. Figured the only way, at the time, was to go large foramt. It can be frustrating.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> Only Richard knows why they do not call it sublimation ink but I would guess there is a legal issued involved.
> 
> *It cannot be due to copyright or trademark as others are claiming. That only leaves the patent "fear" or a prearranged legal agreement between Cobra and SG, in which a prearranged legal agreement is highly doubtful.*
> 
> ...


Markups above ....


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

What other relevant forums are there? Dye Sub Org, no offense to the owners, has very little up to date information on it if any at all. May get a post every couple of days. 

You could argue how black and white it is all you would like but the plain fact is if it was that black and white there is a market that no one seems to want to touch that has 500% mark up, conservatively, on the ink yet not one single person or company dares to make the easy money. Surely selling ink at 500%+ profit is easier than slaving over a heat press with skinny margins.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> What other relevant forums are there? Dye Sub Org, no offense to the owners, has very little up to date information on it if any at all. May get a post every couple of days.
> 
> You could argue how black and white it is all you would like but the plain fact is if it was that black and white there is a market that no one seems to want to touch that has 500% mark up, conservatively, on the ink yet not one single person or company dares to make the easy money. Surely selling ink at 500%+ profit is easier than slaving over a heat press with skinny margins.


This forum is the main one, but DSSI and HTFDTP still get views, just not a lot of posts.

Read the court documents I have posted, it is Black and White as to what the '907 patent covers. 

Threat of litigation is not black and white or entering into a market where a company had been abusing their patent is not black and white. 

I answered your comment elsewhere on the possibilty of buying >42 inch inks and reselling at 10X on another thread, that is very black and white and shouldn't be confused with patent issues. Apples and Oranges.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Riderz Ready said:


> What other relevant forums are there?


They're out there....


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## BigRigGrafix (Sep 1, 2011)

Mike, VERY well spoken. Best argurment with facts I have heard of in awhile.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> What other relevant forums are there? Dye Sub Org, no offense to the owners, has very little up to date information on it if any at all. May get a post every couple of days.
> 
> *You could argue how black and white it is all you would like but the plain fact is if it was that black and white there is a market that no one seems to want to touch that has 500% mark up, conservatively, on the ink yet not one single person or company dares to make the easy money. Surely selling ink at 500%+ profit is easier than slaving over a heat press with skinny margins*.


You seem to forget that there are a few companies now doing exactly that, Cobra is just one of them.

The only point to my posts is that as long as the information out is either not correct, or "dated", it only serves to allow the 800 lb. gorilla in the room to remain longer.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> You seem to forget that there are a few companies now doing exactly that, Cobra is just one of them.
> 
> The only point to my posts is that as long as the information out is either not correct, or "dated", it only serves to allow the 800 lb. gorilla in the room to remain longer.


There is NO company that I am aware of that markets and sells DYE SUBLIMATION ink to the desktop market. There is a reason that is the case. You can argue all the points all day long but it does not change the fact.


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## BigRigGrafix (Sep 1, 2011)

The problem lies with Big Business. It squashes the little guy, allowing BIG established companies to either buy them out or bankrupt them by legal battles. (There is some schmuck lawyer in Riverside Calif., suing small restraunts by demanding money for his services prior to court for disability access to restraunts. Same disabled guy going out to eat at a different restraunt every night, finding it a little difficult to get in or parking sign for disabled is not reflective or wording is not right).


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> There is NO company that I am aware of that markets and sells DYE SUBLIMATION ink to the desktop market. There is a reason that is the case. You can argue all the points all day long but it does not change the fact.


Just because you are not aware of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

If you don't consider Cobra HT as being "DYE SUBLIMATION INK" perhaps you won't consider these for the desktop either? 

Do these "change the fact"? 

Gercutter Click "Product Catagory" then "Sublimation Ink and Suppiles" on the right side.



Amazon.com: sublimation ink

At least 5 or 6 vendors on US Amazon.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> There is NO company that I am aware of that markets and sells DYE SUBLIMATION ink to the desktop market. There is a reason that is the case. You can argue all the points all day long but it does not change the fact.


 

About Us *Gercutter* is a globally registered trademark, which operates in the area of equipment and materials for two important types of business: the advertising industry and the textile industry. *Gercutter* has a wide range of professional vinyl cutting plotters and sublimation heat press machines to cover all the essential market needs. Our products are manufactured with the latest technologies in the industry, under strict quality control. Always with the premise of the best quality at the lowest price.

We have the best price/quality ratio and our focus is to enable new entrepreneurs of the advertising signs industry and heat stamping industry, by delivering an excellent product at an affordable price. We also handle a wide range of materials and consumables such as: blades, ink, vinyls, etc.

Our experience is extensive, as we have been fully involved in this business since 2005. We started delivering our products in Venezuela, Chile and Colombia where low prices and high quality aligned with the daily needs of our customers allowed us to have a resounding success that made us number one in those markets.

Alliances with companies like Grupoeshop, INTERNET SHOP C.A. and Grupoeshop, S.P.A, and innovative solutions using internet sales sites we have been able to reach a very broad customer base. We have managed to penetrate beyond what other brands have been able to, by addressing our customers in their own language and having the right materials and equipment for each market need.

*In 2010 we expanded to the USA where we opened one office in San Diego, CA. From this location we have been able to deliver our products all over the USA and to provide excellent technical support for the US market. *

Complementing our products with a support site and free education, coupled with bringing cost effective solutions to the market, we have been able to reach from the common entry level customer, like a design student who wants to heat stamp T-shirts to sale at his college or university, to the professional business man which has its own store of photography or design company and wants to diversify its business, expand its products and services and increase his earnings.

In a few words, *Gercutter* means prosperity for its customers, a solution to start your small or medium business and go to market. We guarantee our customers the continuity and quality of supply materials/parts at the best prices, that is our commitment!

When you think about *Gercutter*, think about signs and *sublimation*, high quality at the best price in the market.
About Us *Gercutter* is a globally registered trademark, which operates in the area of equipment and materials for two important types of business: the advertising industry and the textile industry. *Gercutter* has a wide range of professional vinyl cutting plotters and sublimation heat press machines to cover all the essential market needs. Our products are manufactured with the latest technologies in the industry, under strict quality control. Always with the premise of the best quality at the lowest price.

We have the best price/quality ratio and our focus is to enable new entrepreneurs of the advertising signs industry and heat stamping industry, by delivering an excellent product at an affordable price. We also handle a wide range of materials and consumables such as: blades, ink, vinyls, etc.

Our experience is extensive, as we have been fully involved in this business since 2005. We started delivering our products in Venezuela, Chile and Colombia where low prices and high quality aligned with the daily needs of our customers allowed us to have a resounding success that made us number one in those markets.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

mgparrish said:


> Just because you are not aware of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
> 
> If you don't consider Cobra HT as being "DYE SUBLIMATION INK" perhaps you won't consider these for the desktop either?
> 
> ...


You are missing the point but your cut and paste skills are awesome.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> You are missing the point but your cut and paste skills are awesome.


What point?

Please explain, don't keep it a mystery. 

You stated.

*"There is NO company that I am aware of that markets and sells DYE SUBLIMATION ink to the desktop market. There is a reason that is the case. You can argue all the points all day long but it does not change the fact. "*

What part of that statement did I miss, is there a hidden meaning to your statement? Do you still stand by that statement?

Or do you really only just intend to _obfuscate_ by "going off the reservation" here and diverting the argument. This is typical when one cannot defend their arguments, spin off somewhere else. 

We are grown-ups get to the point, what was your point and what do you disagree with?

*??????*


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## davej1956 (Dec 20, 2009)

I also have a Ricoh E3300 that is barely over a year old with SG ink and today it printed 2 pages of black bars and now wont power on. Pretty sure the heads are shorted out due to the ink. I am going to try and get SG to trerplace the printer on them but who knows. I am thinking they are not what they try to make themselves look like, but i will see Monday.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

What are the dates on your carts?


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

I just read this on another forum "Last I heard from another forum is that the Hi Temp is no longer available from Cobra Ink for "NEW Customers". Richard will still support previous Hi Temp Customers that have his printers. Due to Sawgrass and their supposed patent for all Sub Ink used in Desktop printers Cobra is another supplier to bite the dust".


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## bluedoggraphix (Aug 16, 2010)

Bummer.
I searched the forum today after my 3300 started printing the "Black Bars of Death" and found this post. Then after reading, I went back to run one more test print. Guess what? I know have two boat anchors. One at home, where it should be, and one at the office.
So, outside of all the legal/patent discussion, does anyone have a solid lead on a fix? Or is replacement the only option on the table?
I'm a casual user of the dye sub, mainly have it around as an add on for invoices. "Here are your company shirts, how about a few mugs/key tags"? But if 12 to 18 months are all they're good for, no thanks.
I did manage to check the counter on the printer before it slipped quietly into the great beyond. 157 prints, mixed letter and legal sizes, and one set of cartridges. The ROI seems a bit off, if that's the best to expect.

Hopefully there is a solution, if we can find it. Or make it.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

Wow. Only 157 prints? That's actually kinda sad. I was annoyed that my 5550 only made it to 1225 prints. If the 3300 I just got last week only gets 157 prints, I'm throwing in the towel. That's $1 per print for just the cost of the machine. It's hard to make money at that rate.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

What are the dates on the ink carts?


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## bluedoggraphix (Aug 16, 2010)

They all have an "expiration" date of this month.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Are these the first set of carts?


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## bluedoggraphix (Aug 16, 2010)

No. They have all been replaced. This is only the second set of carts. I did just recently replace the black cart. That was the last one of the originals.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Is the printer outside of its one year warranty?


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## bluedoggraphix (Aug 16, 2010)

I believe so. Karen has my info. I'll check when I get to the office next.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Call us on Monday and we help.


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## bluedoggraphix (Aug 16, 2010)

Ok. Thanks for your attention to this matter.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

If the ink expired this month, and the machine is roughly a year old, then you've never had expired ink in the machine. (Each set of carts should be good for approx 8 months.) Correct?

What gives? I thought this problem was fixed, and only machines which may have had expired ink through it were causing problems? Now there are a number of failures showing this to be incorrect. Did I misunderstand something? Does this now have something to do with a lack of daily printing?

Has anyone figured the costs of printing daily waste sheets to prevent clogging with the Epson vs printing daily waste sheets in HOPES of preventing death with the Ricoh? Do we know that printing daily waste sheets with the Ricoh will prevent death?


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

I suspect that The first set was the cause.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Conde_David said:


> I suspect that The first set was the cause.


Why would you suspect that? Wouldn't they have been fresh - seeing as how it was a new setup?


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## bluedoggraphix (Aug 16, 2010)

Agreed, daily waste sheets could potentially cancel all the profits for the low volume shops such as myself. Hopefully an economical solution can be found.


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