# Rip program



## Hooked (Oct 13, 2005)

I have been using an epson stylus 3000 which does a great job, howevery it is time to step up to a printer or rip program for doing halftones. Could I get some feed back on what everyone feels is a basic setup for doing halftones and what you would like to use if money wasn't the issue. Ours how every is a money issue and don't need the top of the line, but don't want to throw money away either. Thanks


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

ghostscript I believe is free and will do the job.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Ghostscript works great for us!


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## chaoticnoize (Nov 15, 2006)

*is HP laserjet 4plus suitable for the ghostscript?*

sum people say tht inkjet is not good enuff for the rzterized image..so i.ve looking for a lserjet. one of my friend offer me his second hand HPlaserjet4plus..is it suitable for the ghostscript? wht other laserjet printer(tht chep enuff for a garage biz) could fulfill the ghostscript requirement?

put chaotic on ur tshirt


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

I tried ghostscript and the Accurip trial and Accurip is much better quality wise and about $500. Ghostscript is free but there alot of banding. Quality is very important and prepress is the basis for anything you create so I wouldn't skimp on that. I'm still trying Accurip but getting lines on the image while printing 11x17. I contacted Accurip support and still waiting for their solution. If they don't satisfy me I'm not wasting my money. They have 10 days to fix it.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

*Re: is HP laserjet 4plus suitable for the ghostscript?*



chaoticnoize said:


> sum people say tht inkjet is not good enuff for the rzterized image..so i.ve looking for a lserjet. one of my friend offer me his second hand HPlaserjet4plus..is it suitable for the ghostscript? wht other laserjet printer(tht chep enuff for a garage biz) could fulfill the ghostscript requirement?
> 
> put chaotic on ur tshirt


Check and see whether or not that printer is already a postscript printer. If it is, you don't use Ghostscript. You can pick up a good used postscript laser printer on Ebay for very little. I bought an HP5 for around $135. The problem with laser printers is getting the toner dark enough and printing onto vellum or film that doesn't shrink, thereby causing problems registering your separations (if you're printing multicolor jobs). The nice thing about inkjets is that there's no heat involved causing shrinkage. But all inkjets need either a postscript rip to enable halftones, or the "thrifty" (aka cheap) among us (me included) have found that ghostscript works nicely. And I think the halftone dots made by an inkjet onto inkjet film are much better than halftone dots made with a laser printer onto vellum, with Xante printers being the exception.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm using an Epson R1800 and it's not a postscript printer. Even Ghostscript isn't bad for something free but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I figure if people are happy with the work and come back for more then the $500 investment for a good RIP was well worth it. I have yet to create screens from films I made from ghostcript so maybe the difference won't be noticeable once it's printed on a shirt. It's just that I'm comparing the prints to Accurip and I'm skepticle about using it to burn my screen. Also I was told that a RIP would make my films darker and I haven't seen it. I actually get a darker print going straight to the Epson but again no halftone dots doing it that way.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

SpotMatrix said:


> I'm using an Epson R1800 and it's not a postscript printer. Even Ghostscript isn't bad for something free but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I figure if people are happy with the work and come back for more then the $500 investment for a good RIP was well worth it. I have yet to create screens from films I made from ghostcript so maybe the difference won't be noticeable once it's printed on a shirt. It's just that I'm comparing the prints to Accurip and I'm skepticle about using it to burn my screen. Also I was told that a RIP would make my films darker and I haven't seen it. I actually get a darker print going straight to the Epson but again no halftone dots doing it that way.


One of the main advantages of using a store-bought RIP is they are usually engineered to program more ink to be deposited on the film. The problem with them is they'll almost always only work on Epson printers, which frequently have clogging issues. I had FastRip from Screenprinters.net, and it worked great . . . real dense blacks on my films using their FastInk. Unfortunately, the $600 Epson printer that it worked with quit on me, and I had to take it in for a new printhead to the tune of $290. A week later the cartridge end on the bulk ink feeder quit (with an almost full bag of ink). It became an issue of reliability for me (not to mention the amount of money I was spending), so I bought an HP9800 for $299 (and they're available for less than that). Run my art through Ghostscript, and in a side-by-side comparison of a test file I made up, the HP9800 did at least as well as the Epson in terms of dot shape and resolution. The density levels are adjustable, and, while not as dark as FastRip with FastInk would get them, I get good usable halftones regardless that print very well.
If you're a busy shop where you're outputting films daily, and really using the printer, the Epson with a RIP is great, but many besides me fought the clogging thing, and when you need film for a job with a tight deadline and the printer won't cooperate, you're screwed. I've read where some keep 2 of 'em so they've got one that works when the other quits.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

Well of course Epson will say your clogging issue was probably due to using non-Epson ink. Doesn't matter if it was, but that's what they'll say. Apparently Accurip allows an optional setting to move the print heads back and forth as is agitates. For that very reason Accurip reccomends against this even though it will increase the ink deposit. To me though the default Accurip setting is better than the Ghostscript output. I'm keeping my options open for now and continue my tests to see if I can get an improvement on ghostscript. I don't have an immediate need for halftone but I'd like to use it eventually.

The wonderful world of computers. Different results occur when you have different users using a wide variety of software and hardware combinations. In any case I've made my iinitial printer investment and I have to follow through on that. If I encounter similar situations such as you have I will keep in mind your solution. Luckily for me I have a long history in computer support dealing with data capture, imaging and print for a major bank so I'm in my element around technical issues. It's only pertaining to screen printing that's new to me but I'm sure I'll get a handle on it very quickly. 

Regarding banks and printers.... one thing we always had was a contingency plan and even if you have a laser printer a second one is probably still a good idea. It doesn't matter what kind of equipment you have. There will always be problems regardless of what you spent.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

GhostScript is free but you have to learn to use it - AND it doesn't increase the ink jet deposit. There is an excellent tutorial on GhostScript in this forum. Many people can make acceptable screens from the weak UV opacity of laser printers and ink jets.

A RIP designed for making ink jet screen printing positives will give you guaranteed results and you won't have to spend time learning how to make it work. That would be the reason spend US$500 - to get instant, professional results. If you have had problems with aftermarket inks, you should protest. That is certainly not an Epson problem.

There are hundreds of posts on this forum debating the benefits of lasers and ink jets. Search for "R1800" and "RIP" for starters.

Epsons with piezo heads are the only printers that the 4 big screen printing RIP companies write drivers for. HP and Canon use thermal heads and the UV opacity is inferior to Epson's because HP and Canon don't allow programmers to increase the droplet size like Epson does.

The Xante ScreenWriter is a real Postscript laser and was designed for making screen positives. It has a control to increase toner deposit like a photocopy machine and increased fuser temperature to handle that extra toner, but the best UV opacity it can produce is 2.2. I've never seen an HP that can do better than 1.6 UV dMAX.

Rick, (Hooked), you have a fine Epson printer. Download the demo RIPS and try them with your Epson 3000. If the 3000 dies, you can replace it with another used one or buy another Epson desktop printer. The RIP will have the drivers for your new printer.

*Accurip *allows you to download the complete program and use it for free to make positives and print as many designs as you want, BUT it shuts down after 14 days.

*PowerRIP ScreenPrint* lets you use the full program, but there is a watermark in the images until you pay for a Product Code and activate it over the Internet.

*FastRIP* also has a free demo with a watermark. You will have to buy a USB dongle to get rid of the watermark.

You can still buy a refurbished 13" Epson R1800 printer for US$349 at the Epson store on the web. Same 1 year warranty as new printers and free shipping


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

SpotMatrix said:


> I'm using an Epson R1800 and it's not a postscript printer. Even Ghostscript isn't bad for something free but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I figure if people are happy with the work and come back for more then the $500 investment for a good RIP was well worth it. I have yet to create screens from films I made from ghostcript so maybe the difference won't be noticeable once it's printed on a shirt. It's just that I'm comparing the prints to Accurip and I'm skepticle about using it to burn my screen. Also I was told that a RIP would make my films darker and I haven't seen it. I actually get a darker print going straight to the Epson but again no halftone dots doing it that way.


For what it's worth, I just opened a box of Chromopaque waterproof film I bought from Screener's Choice (thanx, Jerid) and I've gotta say, the stuff is great. A couple of test prints on the leading edge of one sheet, and the blacks are the most dense I've gotten with any previous film, except for using FastFilms with FastRIP printing double density, and truthfully, they're pretty damn close to that. I check by placing it on my light table and sliding something under part of the black image. You can barely see the difference. I've gotten good results using other standard films with Ghostscript, but these are the nicest solids and halftones I've ever gotten out of my HP9800, and they come out bone dry. The stuff is very competitively priced with other waterproof films, and while I end up tossing most films (which was my rationale for using cheaper film), I think this stuff is gonna spoil me.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

RichardGreaves said:


> GhostScript is free but you have to learn to use it - AND it doesn't increase the ink jet deposit. There is an excellent tutorial on GhostScript in this forum.



Not to offend anyone but if your referring to the tutorial thread by RRC62, my suggestion to anyone who is so inclined is to read Ghostscript's cryptic documentation. I've read both the tutorial and scratched the surface of the Ghostscript documentation and my understanding of how Ghostscript is used differs significantly. I think I have a reasonable grasp on how it works but I would still need to read more to better understand it. Anyone not extremely comfortable with computers and computer jargon is best to stay away from ghostscript altogether. I've spent so much time over the years programming and testing software and reading documentation that personally I can't be bothered. My personal interests are in creativity. I'd rather spend the money and read the help topics written in clear english by 3rd party RIP software developers made specifically for those that haven't got a clue. If you calculate the hours you'll spend trying to figure out Ghostscript and translate that against productive hours lost I'm sure you'll come close to the $500 mark. Obviously in many cases that option is not an option when money is an issue.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

tpitman said:


> For what it's worth, I just opened a box of Chromopaque waterproof film I bought from Screener's Choice (thanx, Jerid) and I've gotta say, the stuff is great.


I use Ulano waterproof films and they work for me. Unfortunately for me there are not a lot of suppliers up here in the Great White North so my options are limited. I guess If I really wanted to try them that badly I could order them off the internet. Personally once I have something working they way it should I'd rather leave it alone. "Let sleeping dogs lie". My real problem lies with halftone dots.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

SpotMatrix said:


> Anyone not extremely comfortable with computers and computer jargon is best to stay away from ghostscript altogether.


The most confusing part of using Ghostscript IS the documentation. I haven't read that mumbo jumbo. Where people trip up is in not understanding that they have to set up a phantom printer using a postscript printer description (ppd) or driver, so they can access the postscript features in their art program such as color separations, halftone screen angles and frequencies, and overprint features, if that's how they trap multi-color close-registration jobs. They don't have to have the printer that the driver is actually for. They then print the job TO FILE, saving it as a .ps file. THEN the .ps file is opened in GhostVIEW and printed to their actual non-Postscript printer (this is usually the inkjet printer), making any available density, saturation, etc. adjustments in the print dialog box, depending on the particular printer. That's about all there is to it. All you do with Ghostscript is install it. It works transparently in the background. Ghostview is where you actually print your film from.

Regarding third party RIPS, at least with FastRIP the version you bought only worked with a couple of different models. I see where other RIPS are often written for a greater number. If someone would write a program that would be device independent (which, of course, Ghostscript is) that was easy to understand, came with the necessary drivers so people didn't have to figure that part out, and that would install so that they were printing directly to their printer from their original art program and getting the postscript benefits, then sell it at a competitive price, they'd probably clean up. It wouldn't be capable of adjusting density on non-Epson style printers, but as I mentioned farther up these posts, I'm getting awfully good film from an HP9800 without the clogging issues many encounter with the Epsons.


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## SpotMatrix (Nov 10, 2007)

TPITMAN regarding your use of Ghostscript... that's pretty much my interpretation of it too. You have to use the generic printer driver to get the RIP functions or you can play with the command line functions at the prompt as indicated in the documentation.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

I'll keep using the printer driver. Actually, as I've got Acrobat Professional on my Mac, I just choose Adobe PDF 8.0 as my printer, then save as a .ps file, drop it in a hot file linked to my PeeCee via the network I'm on, open it in Ghostview, select the Quick Set Preset (a print preset feature with the HP9800 where you can set up and save your printer settings) that I have for the particular type of film I'm using, and hit print. That's it.

That business with modifying command lines is a little too tedious for my taste, and if I had to root through that documentation and do the command line thing to use it, I'd spend $500 on a RIP, too. Ghostscript and Ghostview aren't the most elegant of programs, but they get the job done relatively painlessly.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

Why are you making this so difficult? Download ghostscript and ghostview, open your ps files in ghosview and print them.

Easy as pie.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*thread note: *Some off topic (and some rude) posts were moved out of this thread. Please keep the discussion professional without attacks on other members. Any questions about this, please contact me directly off board via PM or email.


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

neato said:


> Why are you making this so difficult? Download ghostscript and ghostview, open your ps files in ghosview and print them.
> 
> Easy as pie.


Phillip has pretty much summed it up. If you can print your illustrator/corel draw/photoshop to file, or save otherwise as a .ps file, open it in Ghostview and print them to your non-postscript printer. About the only printer that probably wouldn't give satisfactory results would be a dot-matrix printer.


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## mgatechcameroon (Jan 30, 2008)

hello torm, thats a very sensitive topic you guys have got there. i have spent years trying to figure out ways of burning halftone dots on screens and right now i hold even the five percent areas from a laserjet with absolutely no problem. where the actual fun comes in is with ghostscript. with a non postscript laser printer i separate photoshop, then output in corel with inberded transfer function from photoshop to compansate the light and dark areas but for inkjet the transfer settings are only to compasate the dark areas since light areas grow in dot size to give you your five percent dot, but here is the tricky part with inkjet printing for density compansation ,print with printer generic driver go to printer properties and test diferent types papers. i know everyone will ask why , i discovered that when an hp printer is printing on photo paper or inkjet premium transparencies it lay down much ink so i just bought some inkjet transparency film and tried diferent settings, just hope this helps u too.


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## O_K_G (Jun 2, 2008)

how do you use ghost script. I'm having a hard time setting it up


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## tpitman (Jul 30, 2007)

O_K_G said:


> how do you use ghost script. I'm having a hard time setting it up


Have you "printed" your file to disk, or "print to file" or saved your file as a .ps file, or saved it as a .pdf? You have to do this while having a postscript printer driver enabled that will accommodate the sheet size you are printing. For example, my inkjet printer will print a 13" x 18" sheet of film, but if I use my Laserjet 4M printer driver while printing my file to disk, that size is not an option since the 4M can't output a sheet that size. I think ghostscript comes with a generic postscript driver that may eliminate this problem. Personally, I print my files to disk using Acrobat as my "printer" as it isn't limited to any particular sheet dimensions. I also do my art on a Mac, so I save my files as a .ps file to a desktop folder linked to an old PC that has ghostscript installed.

Open your .ps, .prn, or .pdf file in Ghostview. Hit "p" to open the print dialog box, and choose the printer you are using to output the film or vellum to. Here again, the output "sheet" size of your file should (obviously) match the capability of the non-postscript printer you are now trying to print you film to. Make whatever adjustments you need in your print dialog box and print the art.

The postscript information is written to the file you generate through the postscript driver you selected to use when saving the original file. All ghostscript does is recognize the postscript info, and all ghostview does is let you see the file before you print it to your non-postscript printer. The one problem people seem to have with ghostscript is getting the printer to print landscape or portrait. In general, always generate your original file as portrait, and select portrait in the ghostview orientation pulldown menu. I've had it screw up a couple of times, and I don't know why, but in general, ghostscript works pretty much flawlessly. It's interface is sort of cobby, though, but what do you want for nuthin'?

One other thing, unless you're trapping separated spot colors, or generating halftones, you don't need ghostscript.


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## pyro (Apr 27, 2006)

i use ghostscript.. works for me.. 
be sure to download the interface.. ghostview.. 
it will make it much easier to use.


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## staned (Feb 25, 2007)

saving a buck is fine, but i need the best films money can buy. i shoot with a 6k violux and it makes most films look like window tint. any little light streak in the black will stencil out on the screen. fast-rip, fast-ink, fast-positive and a epson are the only way to go. fast-rip is calibrated for maximum output out of two heads without puddling. fast-ink is a high quality black with a percentage of magenta to throw a ruby-lith type block on any u.v that filters through the dense black. fast-positive waterproof is simply the best and a must for this system. the epson is the only printer that a rip can turn up the flow(drop size) on. what i once called good film was really trash. i use water base and your emulsion must be fully cooked or you might be in for a mid run bummer. using this system my screens are perfect even if i over expose by 25%. i hate to say it, but good film output does not come cheap. still don't believe? print up a pair of 3d style glasses on your film, cut them out. come over my place and we'll sit in front of the 6k light kinda like screens. then you can start telling me how nice and dark your film is. all kidding aside, if any one would like a sample of a printed film just pm me. no hand stan


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