# Editing printer color profile (.icm) Epson (making it put 100% more ink)



## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

Hello,

Let me introduce myself - I am Veselin and I am doing sublimation printing. I want to offer quality products and because of that I made a custom profile with a recently bought color calibrator (Colormunky photo).

Don't ask how and why but basically I found out that my profile puts too little ink - I did double prints (yes, strange but I actually printed one thing and printed on top of it on the same page the same thing again) and then the print is slightly darker but if I edit it a little in photoshop with opacity 89% and play a little with levels result is perfect. So basicly what I need is a way to make the profile or printer but like double the quantity of ink (or 100% more) and then just edit it in photoshop. I wonder if there is any software for editing printer color profiles or a way to just edit the DENSITY of the colors/inks?

In short I need a way to make the profile put about 180% more ink (or 200% and I will edit in Photoshop the opacity of the layers and the levels of brightness).

I really hope your tool can assist me or that you can direct me to a way that I can adjust ink density in the printer icm profile

I tried creating a profile for matte paper on high quality but it does not work and result is still the same - not saturated enough media when printing - so I just need a way to put more ink when printing. I am open to suggestions, thank you.

Best Wishes

Veselin


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## Signature Series (Jun 11, 2016)

You would need a RIP like Wasatch or something similar.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

amadeusbg said:


> Hello,
> 
> Let me introduce myself - I am Veselin and I am doing sublimation printing. I want to offer quality products and because of that I made a custom profile with a recently bought color calibrator (Colormunky photo).
> 
> ...


You mention that the **prints** are not dense enough, did you actually heat press them onto a substrate?

You shouldn't have to monkey inside the profile, clearly you've done something wrong. Did you actually print a target transfer **target** file from your color calibrator then heat press it to a substrate?

Any chance you only scanned the printed target into the color calibrator from the transfer paper? Unlike most profiling done we don't scan in from paper, use a heat press transfer target onto a flat substrate like Chromalux.

I use Chromalux aluminum 8x10 panels to transfer the target onto first then I scan (using i1 Studio from X-Rite). See the attached pic of the panels and a pressed test photo onto 100% poly fabric from my crappy  cell phone camera, the pressed poly looks much better in person, especially the grayscales .

This software has the target files built in, otherwise you need to Adobe Color Printer Utility (free) to print external target files. Don't print target files from inside any graphic app.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/no-color-management-option-missing.html
Adobe Color Printer Utility is a printing utility for printing non-color managed color target files used by ICC Profile creation software.

Note that you must also set to "No Color Adjustment" option in the Epson printer driver (see attached pic of profiler software)

Also, while your paper setting will effect ink density your production transfers should only be printed with the same paper setting as the target transfer was. _The reason for ICC profiles is so we don't have to tweak images_, so you are defeating the purpose if your are image adjusting to compensate for a poor profile.

Having said that there does exist software that let's you edit profiles outside of your color calibrator software. Mine allows profile optimization if I choose to fine tune a completed profile. 

There are real high end profile editors, as well as a "poor mans" version
http://www.antelligent.com/pages/ps_plugins.html


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## Hemanshu Desai (Dec 8, 2014)

amadeusbg said:


> Hello,
> 
> Let me introduce myself - I am Veselin and I am doing sublimation printing. I want to offer quality products and because of that I made a custom profile with a recently bought color calibrator (Colormunky photo).
> 
> ...


Hi Veselin,

While creating profile, what paper selection you make is important. Also if you are doing sublimation profile, the ink on the paper will be visibly less but when transferred to cloth it will be very bright.

Hemanshu


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## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

Hello,
thank you very much for the fast answer.
Yes, I make the profile with the software that came with the X-Rite colormunky photo. I also ordered a profile from UK company but the profile came the same way - non dense enough.
I make the profile on the same settings for both the target sheets (there are 2). I print the target sheet on aluminium sheet and then press it on a heat press and then I read the values off of the aluminium sheet. A person suggested that I try creating the profile on a polyester shirt - I tried that also but no luck sadly, colors even deviated and the aluminium sheet was better. I use the same settings for paper (and no color adjustment) in the printer settings like when creating the profile, no changes there, same paper like the one I made the profile on and same time/temperature for printing like the ones I heat pressed the target sheets on (185 degrees 95s).

My target sheets after sublimation are excellent ( dense and etc). But when I read the values something messes up appearantly. I also thought that I could be making a mistake while creating the profiles, but I made over 10 profiles and all came bad (and also I compared it to the one I bought from a UK company and they are similar, leading to think that I just need to edit the ink density).

A guy told me that actually the profile may limit the ink that is put (ink limiting was done twice - once by the paper type you chose in printing settings and once by the profile itself - and I can clearly see this, because when I print without profile on a paper the paper is much more saturated with ink (it bends more) than when I print with a profile.

Can you edit ink density with your software?

I actually use the same test image with the babies. Did you try sublimation on alliminium after creating the profile? Is the black dense enough? Because mine is going to dark blue/grey if I compare it to true black) - which of course can be because of the substrate and the ink it absorbs but I am really searching for a way to put more ink when printing because I found that this way the substrates "takes" more color out of the paper.

I use quality paper (Trupix) so I doubt that the paper is the problem. Currently testing on Epson L805 photo printer (used for sublimation with sublimation inks).

Best Wishes and thank you for your time


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## Hemanshu Desai (Dec 8, 2014)

amadeusbg said:


> Hello,
> thank you very much for the fast answer.
> Yes, I make the profile with the software that came with the X-Rite colormunky photo. I also ordered a profile from UK company but the profile came the same way - non dense enough.
> I make the profile on the same settings for both the target sheets (there are 2). I print the target sheet on aluminium sheet and then press it on a heat press and then I read the values off of the aluminium sheet. A person suggested that I try creating the profile on a polyester shirt - I tried that also but no luck sadly, colors even deviated and the aluminium sheet was better. I use the same settings for paper (and no color adjustment) in the printer settings like when creating the profile, no changes there, same paper like the one I made the profile on and same time/temperature for printing like the ones I heat pressed the target sheets on (185 degrees 95s).
> ...


Method is correct.
Just few comments.
Make RGB Profile.
White printing test charts, Keep Colour Management Off both in Driver and application (such as Photoshop).
Keep Quality High.
Use Perceptual Rendering.
Print on the paper and transfer on the media (Metal as you did - I use ChromaLuxe sheets for Hard Surface and Textile Cloth for Textile profile) using recommended temperature and time setting..
Read the test chart (from Metal / Cloth). I believe you are doing this.
Create the profile using Netural Gray and Maximum Gamut otpions (if available in software).

Now while printing a job, use this profile at one place. Say Kepp Colour Management Off in printer driver and use the profile in application (such as Photoshop). Make sure you are using the same Media Type that you used while creating profile, same quality option and Perceptual Rendering.

When you print, the ink seen on the paper will be less but after heat press, you will get great result. All the best.

You can share your profile with me on [email protected]. I can then guide you.

Hemanshu

P.S. ICC profiles made by someone using A PRINTER, with A INK and A PAPER on A ITEM can not work with other who is using different item of 3 above.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Hemanshu Desai said:


> Method is correct.
> Just few comments.
> Make RGB Profile.
> White printing test charts, Keep Colour Management Off both in Driver *and application (such as Photoshop).*
> ...


I made a couple of comments to your post as seen above. Your other points are valid. Not sure what is "item 3" in the sentance;

"P.S. ICC profiles made by someone using A PRINTER, with A INK and A PAPER on A ITEM can not work with other who is using *different item of 3 above*."


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

amadeusbg said:


> Hello,
> thank you very much for the fast answer.
> Yes, I make the profile with the software that came with the X-Rite colormunky photo. * I also ordered a profile from UK company but the profile came the same way - non dense enough.*
> *
> ...


See my markups above, I took another photo of my poly fabric and some other items done with the same profile.

Suggest you try a different ink if you can't narrow down the problem, you have profile creation capability.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Just a few comments I have about profiles and sublimation printing.

1. In theory it's best to use a profile specific to the substrate ...

but in practice ...

In production you have to then juggle profiles around and always remember to change then when you go to another substrate. "Murphy's Law" applies. It's easy to set things wrong this way.

What I do is use the same general profile for everything, I adjust "gamma" in the image depending on what the substrate is. Mousepads are usually not a bright white, so I adjust gamma down (< 1) for those. Some glossy tiles and glossy puzzles I adjust up (>1) to compensate. Bison glossy tiles are a very bright white and the coating will make the colors just pop, more so than other glossy tiles, they will be way too saturated as compared to the other manufacturer's glossy tiles.

Most other items I leave at "1" but I always look at the histogram in "levels" since it's good practice to always adjust the other 2 sliders to "hug" the data in the histograms "ends". In other words I'm already there in "levels". Whether I'm sublimating or just photo printing I do this in my work flow regardless to make the source image photo best as possible. 

2. In theory you can also make a profile specific to the sublimation paper used, however, most general purpose papers get very close results, one exception might be TexPrint HR which will release more dye.

But in these cases I can use the Gamma slider to compensate.

3. In theory a profile made from YOUR specific printer will give you the best results, there are variances in production printers of the same model at the factory but unless the profile was made from a printer at the left side of the "Bell Curve" and your printer sits at the right side of the "Bell Curve" then a "generic" profile (used by others with the same model printer and same inks) is often good enough. Most people buying Sawgrass or Cobra or whoever are using a generic profile made for that model family and the same inks with success.

*************
The reason I use the Gamma setting slider is because it will will mostly effect the saturation "middle" of the color data and not the ends of the data, The general saturation adjust effect the _entire_ color range, if I want to move everything to more saturation then it can cause the darker areas to "clip". For example if there is a near black or dark gray then I force it to be be black, this I don't want. Same thing if I need a lighter saturation, I can "wash out" the lighter colors to near white, I don't want this. So the Gamma slider is more effective and mostly effect the middle of the color range. Saturation controls are "linear" in the adjust, Gamma picks the "sweet middle" so I don't force clipping on either end.

So I can't argue that having a zillion profiles for each substrate and paper used won't achieve the best results, but perfection comes at a price in workflow. Most everything is good enough otherwise.

I sell to artists and photographers that are picky and don't have complaints. If that was the only people I sold to then I might squeeze out the small subtle differences juggling profiles, but I don't find that practical. Gamma adjusting solves the substrate and paper differences for me, and I always adjust the histogram anyway no matter the kind of printing. I also find that if you are selling the same photo someone gave you on different substrates then the customer will see any color shift differences side by side between different products unless each and profile is perfect. Gamma helps me avoid that.

Same thing can be said about the difference between using 4 colors or 6 or 8 colors, I find 4 colors work just fine for me.


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## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Just a few comments I have about profiles and sublimation printing.
> 
> 1. In theory it's best to use a profile specific to the substrate ...
> 
> ...


Thank you so much , both of you, for being so active on the topic.

Maybe I am not pressing my target sheets accurately. Sadly I tried 3 types of ink even - all produce same results.

I tried pressing now the target sheets on 2 settings and maybe there is the key - A4 size aluminium plate I pressed 1st time at 190 degrees 55s (warmed up down plate) - the result was that the profile was lighter compared to the 2nd profile I made now that was pressed at the aluminium at 185 degrees for 95s - this one was darker and maybe colors got better. What temp/time do you press your target sheets on? Maybe my temp/time is not good when pressing? But this will not explain why the profile that I bought from Cityink was the same.

What paper type do you use? I print at Matte paper High settings. I use Epson L805 printer mostly. 

I print in PS CC with the following settings (graphics and products):
Printer settings : Matte paper - High quality setting - no color management. Then in PS print window I set "photoshop manages colors" and then I put the profile I created - relative colormetric - black point compensation - and nothing else is turned on. Document is Adobe RGB 1998.

I attach my settings.
What printers/ink do you use? I am getting desperate - I bought 5 printers in total and all are ****. I even started looking for a cheap wide format printer but this will be overkill - I aim to print phone cases :/

Best Wishes and thank you both very much!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

amadeusbg said:


> Thank you so much , both of you, for being so active on the topic.
> 
> Maybe I am not pressing my target sheets accurately. Sadly I tried 3 types of ink even - all produce same results.
> 
> ...


I marked up as above.


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## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> I marked up as above.


Hello again,

sadly I am in Europe, otherwise I would have been your 1st ink client 

The printer I am currently testing on is Epson L3070 (brand new, yesterday filled with inks). Nozzle Check is perfect. I tried printing on plain paper (highest quality settings) but I got dark lines all over the print (any idea how I can fix that? Head alignment?). Strangely I got the same lines on the XP-342 but were far less visible. (I tried 2 types of ink and getting the strange lines on both inks so my guess is that it is not the ink).

I will try pressing the plates for the profile at 200 degrees 60-70s and plain paper settings and see what happens (but I still will need to fix the dark lines / (banding?) that occurs. I attach images of them, not really visible on the pictures though

Best Wishes
Veselin


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

amadeusbg said:


> Hello again,
> 
> sadly I am in Europe, otherwise I would have been your 1st ink client
> 
> ...


Turn off high speed printing in the Epson driver.


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## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Turn off high speed printing in the Epson driver.


Thank you for the suggestion, sadly I already did that (I always print at slow speed). Any idea if head alignment will fix it? Or something else I can try? 

I even consider buying a new printer - I saw that WF 7110 is similar to yours (if I am not mistaken).. I wonder if to try this one too... I am really getting desperate. :/ At least if I could fix the lines...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

amadeusbg said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, sadly I already did that (I always print at slow speed). Any idea if head alignment will fix it? Or something else I can try?
> 
> I even consider buying a new printer - I saw that WF 7110 is similar to yours (if I am not mistaken).. I wonder if to try this one too... I am really getting desperate. :/ At least if I could fix the lines...


Do those lines showing when pressing?


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## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

Sadly yes - they show when I press aluminium plates (and I sublimate mostly cases).
Lines are most visible in dark tones (grey, brown etc) but as far as I can tell they are at almost every color (but most visible on dark colors).
Best Wishes


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

amadeusbg said:


> Sadly yes - they show when I press aluminium plates (and I sublimate mostly cases).
> Lines are most visible in dark tones (grey, brown etc) but as far as I can tell they are at almost every color (but most visible on dark colors).
> Best Wishes


Since that is a tank printer I'm not familiar with those enough to be much help beyond doing the obvious things, but appears there is a power cleaning option in your driver. Might try different paper types and go at the highest quality settings.

Did you try the factory inks first when you set it up? I know since it's a tank printer the factory inks would have to be purged before you added sub inks, but did you try the printer out of the box with the factory inks?


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## amadeusbg (Oct 6, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Since that is a tank printer I'm not familiar with those enough to be much help beyond doing the obvious things, but appears there is a power cleaning option in your driver. Might try different paper types and go at the highest quality settings.
> 
> Did you try the factory inks first when you set it up? I know since it's a tank printer the factory inks would have to be purged before you added sub inks, but did you try the printer out of the box with the factory inks?


Printer was brand new, I initially filled it with sublimation inks. Another thing I noticed now was that when I don't print for lets say 30 minutes red runs dry and I need to start printing in order for red to be back again o-O. However I doubt this is the reason for lines, because it comes back pretty fast after 1-2 nozzle checks (or need to print red just a little bit), not to mention lines appear on black/blue too (not sure for yellow since it is too bright and there is no visible streak there. This never happened to my L805 and he is also a tank built in printer.

Best Wishes


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## transp (Oct 7, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> You mention that the **prints** are not dense enough, did you actually heat press them onto a substrate?
> 
> You shouldn't have to monkey inside the profile, clearly you've done something wrong. Did you actually print a target transfer **target** file from your color calibrator then heat press it to a substrate?
> 
> ...


pleased with the sublimation profile that i1 Studio from X-Rite made with a profile created ?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

transp said:


> mgparrish said:
> 
> 
> > You mention that the **prints** are not dense enough, did you actually heat press them onto a substrate?
> ...


 Yea, very happy


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## mags1892 (Mar 31, 2012)

if you wish we manufacture sublimation ink in the UK and don't import as your current supplier does.

we give free Icc and make off free with professional software and device colormukey is not that good at device profiles.

we also remote dial in and set it all up.

look for subpro ds inks at inkforinkjet


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