# discharge and cmyk



## Matto (Sep 28, 2007)

So here are my questions. 
Using a Black Gilden 2000:

1. Is discharge going to remove the black well enough for me to print in process color over it?
2. Can I print wet on wet right on top of the discharge ink?
3. Just how bad are the fumes from discharge?
4. What is an average (guesstimates are fine) curetime and temp for Discharge?
5. what colors dont discharge well?

Any and all help would be appreciated as I have a customer who wants cmyk with little to no hand on dark shirts. I have never even messed with discharge so I made them no gaurantees until I have played a little and they are willing to wait for me so here I go 

I also noticed Wilflex has a no formaldahyde(yeah its spelt wrong) discharge ink, has anyone tried it?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

I've only experimented with discharge so far, so take this with a grain of salt.



Matto said:


> 1. Is discharge going to remove the black well enough for me to print in process color over it?


Not quite. The Gildan black shirts I did discharge printing on were unbleached cotton underneath. So you end up with a yellowy unbleached cotton (the 'natural' colour) rather than white. You _could_ do process printing over it, but you'd get colour shift. If you added a little white pigment that would probably do the trick though, without being as heavy handed as a full blown underbase.



Matto said:


> 2. Can I print wet on wet right on top of the discharge ink?


I've read yes.



Matto said:


> 3. Just how bad are the fumes from discharge?


Headache inducing.



Matto said:


> 5. what colors dont discharge well?


It's less colours and more brands. If you discharge a yellow shirt there might not be much contrast, but it still works. Some brands just don't discharge well (Gildan does well, incidentally), some do. It depends on their dyeing process.



Matto said:


> I also noticed Wilflex has a no formaldahyde(yeah its spelt wrong) discharge ink, has anyone tried it?


It's the only one I've used, so I don't have a basis for comparison, but I thought it was good. I'd read a lot about how nasty discharge was, so using that I was pleasantly surprised (it's not too bad). At the same time, I'd read the MSDS first, so I was also a little disappointed (it's worse than that would lead you to believe).


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## pyro (Apr 27, 2006)

hey i am thinking of trying the same.. 
any follow up? how did they come out?


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## macmiller (Jul 23, 2007)

i've been wondering too. My thought would be use union plasticharge mixed with the 4cp inks instead of a discharge underbase. but i'd bet they are too translucent to discharge right. 

i need to learn process printing on white before i start making it even more difficult!!


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## Matto (Sep 28, 2007)

The wilflex came out ok. Yes the fumes are wild but with decent to good ventilation you will be ok. DO NOT cure these or mess with the ink in your house. Garage minimum. I am going to be printing with a full blown discharge (formald) ink this weekend will be interesting to see how much different it is. Will move my conveyor dryer outside for that one for sure. 
mac,
I found process to be fun and yet challenging at times. Keep and open mind when you practice process as every graphic you do will be different in the setup and stroke department on the press. It is very rewarding though when you get it right. I am still very proud of my first cmyk as it opened a new door in printing for me and is easier than setting up an 8 color job any day of the week.
The prints also have a much softer hand. Still have not been able to master the cmyk on dark fabrics, that is why I am interested in discharge to see if that gives me an edge to work with.


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## printing40years (Dec 27, 2008)

The best discharge ink on the market in my opinion is Sericol's TC TexCharge. www.sericol.com
It has the lowest amount of formaldehyde of any true discharge ink. Great white and also DayGlo colors! It's now made in the USA!!! The water resistant dual cure emulsion to use with discharge inks is Sericol's Dirasol 916. You can buy soft handed CMYK plastisols...just print a flashplate with white discharge ink and overprint with platisol cmyk process colors through 230-305 mesh....voila 
!!!! ...soft handed print. 

If the shirt under the dye is bleached white, then you can just use Discharge clear base, but not all shirts are, so then you have to use discharge white. You have to boil off all the water, so flashing or drying discharge inks takes longer than platisols....one to three minutes at 340F plus good air circulation is a plus...gotta get rid od that steam. No, you don't want to be breathing it any more than the smoke off plastisol made with phalate. 

Bryant


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## Matto (Sep 28, 2007)

Ok here is the new print. this is done with the discharge supplies Ryonet sells. Smell was not too bad.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm planning to print white pigmented discharge on red American apparel shirts and print cmyk process inks. I noticed in previous jobs, that the discharge needs to flash quite a bit before printing over it to get some vibrant colors. I'm thinking about setting up 3 flash dryers and using 3 heads for flashes. Any input on discharge white on red? My fear is it will turn pink.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

I haven't printed white discharge on red American apparel, but I have on American apparel 2001 maroon, and it wasn't super bright, I can see maybe getting a pinkish hue to it, but again I have never used that brand in red for discharge. Just going off the maroon color results. Interested in your results. I used discharge white from ryonet.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

Matto said:


> what colors dont discharge well?


Royal blue discharges a grey color. Not a good choice for discharge printing.


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## Unkle Samo (Feb 27, 2008)

I don't know which brand discharge TShirtGuru intends to use but, I did not have satisfactory results discharging Matsui White on American Apparel Red. Discharge is awesome but, don't assume even similar colors of the same brand... always test! Variations of Blue, Red and Green don't necessarily have similar reults. For example, I get good results discharging Matsui White w/ American Apparel Aqua but, Teal didn't discharge for crap.


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## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Unkle Samo said:


> I don't know which brand discharge TShirtGuru intends to use but, I did not have satisfactory results discharging Matsui White on American Apparel Red. Discharge is awesome but, don't assume even similar colors of the same brand... always test! Variations of Blue, Red and Green don't necessarily have similar reults. For example, I get good results discharging Matsui White w/ American Apparel Aqua but, Teal didn't discharge for crap.


I'm using Matsui white discharge. What wasn't satisfactory with the red shirts from AA? Did it turn a light pink? 

If it turns a light pink, it should be okay with the design I need to print because the design has a lot of pink/red in it.


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## Dan K (Nov 15, 2006)

Henry, yeah you may want to flash the discharge under first. We've found that when you print plastisol on top of a wet discharge underbase (that hasn't been flashed) quite often the plastisol ink impedes the heat reaching the discharge underneath it which does not allow the discharge to react completely... Also, it's pretty difficult to get a white white print out of a red shirt with discharge, discharge white even, most times there is a pinkish hue to it. Also, different inks, different ink manufacturers react differently to different shirts... For instance, we use Rutland for most of our work on 90% of the garments we pritn. When we find shirts resisting the Rutland discharge (typically Alternative Apparel, American Apparel organics and most organics in general) we will try to mix with a different base, sometimes Matsui, sometimes Wilflex and the prints will be fine...


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

You have to show us a photo of the shirt when you are done Henry


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