# Burning the sublimaiton paper when doing mugs



## tglows (Oct 9, 2013)

Hello fellow sublimaters,

I am doing some sublimation printing on coffee mugs and I have followed the vendors instructions to the letter on setting time and temp, however, it seems that every time I print, the sublimation paper burns.

I turned down the temp and increased the time, but the paper still burns. I have swapped out the mug heat press several times, even used a different manufaturer for the paper and the mug press and still burns the paper.

Any suggesitons from the forum?

Thanks
Thom


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

tglows said:


> Hello fellow sublimaters,
> 
> I am doing some sublimation printing on coffee mugs and I have followed the vendors instructions to the letter on setting time and temp, however, it seems that every time I print, the sublimation paper burns.
> 
> ...


The larger question, is this causing a problem with the finished product? 

Is the paper really "burning" ... or are you really just seeing browning and discoloration?

Also, identify the specific paper brands you are using.


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## tglows (Oct 9, 2013)

The paper seems to burning onto the product.
I am using Image Right Sublimaiton Paper with Sublijet Inks.
The manufacturer states 400 degrees F for 12-15 sec.
I decreased the temp to 365 for 20 sec and get the same results.

I am using a mugking press.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Something is mixed up here. 
Dye sub paper does not burn at 400degres F for 4 min .when we press coffee mugs every day.
Mugs DO NOT TRANSFER for the time you stated 12-15 seconds. so you have the wrong system/ paper/ ink. 
Where did you buy the stuff E-Bay?


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## superD70 (Dec 22, 2010)

400* Celsius maybe, like Dave said sub paper shouldn't burn during pressing, strange things are afoot @ the circle K dude


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

tglows said:


> The paper seems to burning onto the product.
> I am using Image Right Sublimaiton Paper with Sublijet Inks.
> The manufacturer states 400 degrees F for 12-15 sec.
> I decreased the temp to 365 for 20 sec and get the same results.
> ...


Adding to Dave's comments, nothing sublimation transfers in 12 - 15 seconds. 

The only transfers that could transfer that fast would be either pigment or laser toner transfers. 

I strongly suggest you have some mix-up on your papers. 

Do you have to peel off your transfer paper and it gives resistance when you remove the paper? 

Also, what mugs are you using?


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## tglows (Oct 9, 2013)

Sorry, that was for something else.


*11 oz/15 oz ceramic mugs*
Idle temperature: 280 F 
Pressing temperature: 365 F 
Time: 60 seconds

I reduce the temp to 350F for 70 seconds, same thing. Paper is brown and sticks to the mug.

BTW - I did not appreiciate the sarcastic ebay comment. The products are purchased from Coastal Business Supply.


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## joeshaul (Mar 1, 2008)

My method for use on my mug king is after it gets up to idle temperature, heat an old unsublimated ceramic mug until it gets to temp, remove the old unsub'ed mug and put my new mug in. If doing multiples I just chain em one right after the other after that, if it's left to idle for too long I repeat with the unsubbed mug. I believe mine's set to 10 seconds, kicks in at 400 degrees. Normally I end up with browning on the top and bottom of the paper, but the paper never really sticks to the face anymore, which I've had happen before and think I resolved with the above mentioned method. 

Might also want to make sure your pressure adjustment hasn't slipped, mine changed on me over a couple years time and I hadta readjust it. 

In reference to others asking about the "15 seconds" things, the mug king press slowly heats up the ceramic until it gets to the specified temp (usually 2-3 minutes), after it reaches that temp it then heats for an additional X seconds (in this case the "15"), so it doesn't use the standard heat press "press for 5 minutes" kind of thing with ceramics.


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## tglows (Oct 9, 2013)

Thank You Joeshaul. 
I gave it a whirl and it worked. 
I think my mugking press takes a little longer to get from idle temp to 400.
I cut the time to 50 sec after it reaches idle temp (used your temp descibed). I have some browning on the edges like you described but the paper is not sticking and my blacks are a true cback instead of black with a burnt tint.

Thanks Again!


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Well if you didn't like the ebay comment you are not going to like this. 
You are still doing something wrong. Dye sub paper does not burn at 400 degrees and mugs take longer to press than 50 seconds. good luck I'm done.


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## tglows (Oct 9, 2013)

Thanks for your reply.
Joeshaul was able to help answer my quesiton.

Have a good day.


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## Brian (May 18, 2007)

Well I just had similar problems with my subli mugs. I have now *resolved *the issue by pressing at 330F for 40 secs. My press is a 8-in-one combo press. I tried 400F for 4 mins and *roasted* the paper onto the mug,can't even scrape it off with a knife. So not all presses work at 400F for 4 mins. I have proven that.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Brian said:


> Well I just had similar problems with my subli mugs. I have now *resolved *the issue by pressing at 330F for 40 secs. My press is a 8-in-one combo press. I tried 400F for 4 mins and *roasted* the paper onto the mug,can't even scrape it off with a knife. So not all presses work at 400F for 4 mins. I have proven that.


Sounds more like to me the temperature your mug press is reporting is grossly off.

Temperature is temperature, _no way any mug can be fully sublimated at 330F for 40 seconds_.

I have both wraps and 2 mug presses, neither can sublimate mugs at that temperature or that dwell time, not even close.

When you state "So not all presses work at 400F for 4 mins. I have proven that." ... this makes no sense, it's not a case of the mugs meeting the press specification, it's a case of the press being able to meet the _mugs_ specification. 

I have found no ceramic sublimation mugs in the market that are capable of being fully sublimated at 330F for 40 seconds.


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## Brian (May 18, 2007)

I have attached three photos with this post. The first one shows the paper burnt onto the mug at 4ooF for 4mins. As you can see I was trying to remove the paper unsuccessfully. The second photo shows my press(made in china, bought in california) The third photo shows a completed mug using the same press at 330F for 40 secs.
I'm done.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Brian said:


> I have attached three photos with this post. The first one shows the paper burnt onto the mug at 4ooF for 4mins. As you can see I was trying to remove the paper unsuccessfully. The second photo shows my press(made in china, bought in california) The third photo shows a completed mug using the same press at 330F for 40 secs.
> I'm done.


I suspect your heat press is indicating the heat in some screwball way and that your press is actually _ramping during the dwell_ to a significantly higher temp than 400 degs in order to decrease the dwell time. 

Perhaps your press does this and the temp indicated is the "idle" temp?

No ceramic mugs can sublimate at a_ constant_ 330 DegF and 40 second dwell no matter what the pressure is, impossible. And as others have pointed out the paper should not be burning at 400 degs.

My money says that if you had an accurate way to measure that temp they are blasting way beyond 400 degs. to get that short dwell time, and your platen temp no way is a constant 330 Degs. F during the pressing cycle.


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## Brian (May 18, 2007)

This is where I got info to set my press.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OJUBvmN-IA[/media]
Best Sub demonstrating how to use press and the settings.
Dwell temp 230F.
*Sorry,my bad it should read Idle temp.as stated in the video*


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Brian said:


> This is where I got info to set my press.
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OJUBvmN-IA[/media]Best Sub demonstrating how to use press and the settings.
> Dwell temp 230F.


_Dwell_ refers to to the time duration the item is pressed, cannot be 230F. _Idle_ is when the press is just sitting there and no pressing is happening. Looks like to me the idle temp is 230F.

Watching the video I am correct on how that press works. It has a _starting_ dwell temp of 330 Deg then ramps up to something crazy like 830 degs. F or so.

In the video the Chinese have taken liberties in the English language and are calling 330 Degs. the "highest" temp, that is incorrect. 

You can see the ending temp as being near 830 degs.They also show what appears as setting the start temp then setting the highest temp, but in the sub-title indicate 330F as the highest temp. Simply not possible to sublimate any ceramic mugs at a constant 330 deg. F for 30 - 45 seconds.

Most of us use constant (but settable) temperature presses. That means the temp at dwell start is the same as the dwell finish and it doesn't change (ramp) during the pressing.

The only way to get a mug to sublimate in 30 - 45 seconds is to "blast" it with a much higher temp that ramps up with time. 

It seems to work however, but I have some reservation on how long those heating elements can last "blasting" the mugs that way. I also doubt that this works well on mugs that have special coatings allowing for machine dishwashers to wash the mugs.

I do recall the owner of Cactus Coatings making a comment over at DSSI some time ago on how this type of design effects the coatings in terms of washings. I'll look for that and post it later. But if you specify to the customer to hand wash only then should be OK.

So when others post asking temp/dwell times for these kind of machines they cannot use the settings that many of us have on constant temp mug presses. But we are also correct when we state that you cannot sublimate ceramic mugs at 330 degs. F for 30 seconds, it is the Chinese that is giving poor English instruction for their product.


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## Brian (May 18, 2007)

You are correct, it should have been *IDLE *temp. My mistake. Sorry.


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok Since I do Have This mug press This is whats going on and how you can understand the true time. Ok 1st you set the Idle Time which is 230 or what ever you want to set it to ( I set mines to 360) then you set the Temp (which mines is 385) now you start the machine and it heats up to the idle time which take 4 minutes and 20 seconds then you put the mug in and it heats up to the 385 I have it set to and that is when you suppose to start counting ( not when it gets to the 385) it takes 1 1/2 to get the now i push start and that's set for 100 minutes. So were really burning it at 2 1/2 minutes and I get perfect mugs.


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## L_Alexie (3 mo ago)

Brian said:


> Well I just had similar problems with my subli mugs. I have now *resolved *the issue by pressing at 330F for 40 secs. My press is a 8-in-one combo press. I tried 400F for 4 mins and *roasted* the paper onto the mug,can't even scrape it off with a knife. So not all presses work at 400F for 4 mins. I have proven that.


 I did my first mug tonight. A popular YouTube channel does hers at 400 degrees for 250 sec. My press was smoking and the image was orange and burned and there were heat tape marks. Did another for 400 at 150 seconds. Color was perfect but had a few marks from the tape again. I have a vevor press. I’m gonna try again tm. Sighh


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## webtrekker (Jan 28, 2018)

L_Alexie said:


> I did my first mug tonight. A popular YouTube channel does hers at 400 degrees for 250 sec. My press was smoking and the image was orange and burned and there were heat tape marks. Did another for 400 at 150 seconds. Color was perfect but had a few marks from the tape again. I have a vevor press. I’m gonna try again tm. Sighh


400°F is way too hot. I'd suggest 350 to 360°F for around 180 seconds and tweak things from there. Try another brand of heat tape if you are still getting marks.


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