# Is it legal to use a product silhouette (not trademark)?



## Savan (Jan 10, 2011)

I want to use a silhouette of a particular gun on a shirt. Is this legal?

It's a very distinct looking gun, very recognizable among enthusiasts. It's not the trademark of the maker.

This maker does not sell apparel from what I know.

Any thoughts or experience with this sort of thing?

Thanks in advance

edit, I found out that they do sell some of their own branded apparel.


----------



## ajordan2 (Dec 28, 2010)

To be safe, I would ask Graphtec. Or read the legal print...


----------



## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

If the silhouette is recognizable, then you could potentially be sued for infringement. Basically, you would be creating confusion in the marketplace that the t-shirt is an officially licensed product of the gun maker. To legally profit off another company's intellectual property, you would need to negotiate a licensing agreement.


----------



## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

How do you negotiate with a gun maker?


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

You negotiate with cash.

I do not have first hand experience but I know that a big Japanese company tried negotiating a US company for use of tradename and logo. They later decided not to use the trademark and logo because it would make their products unnecessarily more expensive. Do note that these products are sold to limited customers about 5 times more than their more ordinary counterpart.

Sorry I won't mention the name of the company or the trademark.

What is the gun? If it is an AK or M4/M16 variant, I think whatever copyright they have have expired. But if its distinctive, then good luck.


----------



## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

Being right does not keep you from getting sued. Tread carefully.


----------



## thutch15 (Sep 8, 2008)

BroJames said:


> What is the gun? If it is an AK or M4/M16 variant,


My guess is AK!


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

jiarby said:


> Being right does not keep you from getting sued. Tread carefully.


That is indeed a potential problem. Everyone has the right to sue and being right does not guarantee you'll win.


----------



## tankueray (Apr 16, 2010)

Savan said:


> It's a very distinct looking gun, very recognizable among enthusiasts. It's not the trademark of the maker.


IANAL, just a gun and car nut...

If you're talking about a style, like a 1911 or a revolver; as long as your shape doesn't show any specific queues as to which manufacturer it is, then you should be okay. 

If you're doing a specific model that has a history of being manufactured by only a few companies, then not so much. (I'm thinking like Walther models - long history, different manufacturers, but currently only licensed to S&W in the US) 

Again, I'm not an expert here; but I would start by researching the model's history and if it has any current patents. If the patent has run out, then anyone can manufacture the model - so it seems logical that you can make a picture of it. Then I'd check if it is a registered trademark and/or if there are any foreign trademark/patent equivalents. 

But I see many silhouettes that I'm sure don't meet the above on tons of random items all the time at gun shows. Would you like a Kimber on a toilet seat? Sure you would, but Kimber may not be happy about it. It reminds me of the window stickers of "Calvin" peeing on [insert auto logo here]. I wonder what the deal with that was? 

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to help you think out loud.


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

> distinct looking gun, very recognizable among enthusiasts


An AK nor a 1911 does not need an enthusiast to recognize. 

Why not just tell us the gun if this discussion is going to get somewhere.


----------



## Savan (Jan 10, 2011)

It's a russian airgun called an Edgun Matador


----------



## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

A bullpup PCP










That is a more recent design and whatever copyright it has, it would still be in effect. I am not sure if russia is a member or signatory to any copyrighted agreement though.

What do you want it on your shirt for? If it for club use, for commercial sales, etc?


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

PositiveDave said:


> How do you negotiate with a gun maker?


That's funny...


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

OK, I guess that gun is pretty recognizeable even in silhouette. Don't mess with it...
I had a similar situation where I did a pretty detailed silhouette of a very well known highly collectible bike from back in the day. I added a tag line to the graphic. The bike came in a limited number of colors so those were the shirt colors I offered. Yeah, I knew I was treading on thin ice and as such I did get shut down. In retrospect I should've pursued getting a license or at least checked on doing so. The print got a bit of attention.

Anybody around 40-50 would know the bike...


----------



## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

BroJames said:


> You negotiate with cash.


Damn skippy...LOL! The universal language!


----------

