# Needle breaks on constructed caps...



## Newcomb Graphix (Jul 13, 2007)

I keep having my needle break when sewing on constructed caps. Is this common? Any suggestions? Constructed caps seem to be harder to sew on than unconstructed caps...


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

1) Try to decrease the stitch density or increase the minimum stitch length. In some digitizing softwares, you can also apply a "cap" style, which adjusts some common parameters for cap embroidery.
2) Or lower you stitching speed
3) try the stitching the design first on a regular flat fabric, and see if you still get those thread breaks
4) You can also check and clean the rotary hook, and adjust the tension of the underthread
5) when all else fails, contact your technician and see if you need to adjust the timing of the machine


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

Try a sharper needle and slow down the machine just because the manufacture says it can sew at 1000 or even 1200 spm that is not always true.


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## Newcomb Graphix (Jul 13, 2007)

I just discovered that for some reason my needles are getting thrown off and slamming into the metal which is causing the needles to break. Any suggestions on why that may be? I was able to sew on an unconstructed non-profile hat just fine. Please help...


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Is there some sort of a "cap mode" setting in your machine?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Here is what you need to do. 


sew caps with sharp point needles, use an 11/75 or 12/80 titanium coated needle
make sure you are using your cap needle plate
make sure you have set your machine to caps
slow your speed down. we sew constructed 6 panel caps at 500SPM or less if we get needle breaks or thread breaks
use 2 or 3 layers of stabilizer or, take a standard 20lb copy paper, fold it 3 ways and use it
Keep in mind you are sewing a 3D image on a 3D garment in a very small space, typically 2.25" or less for height. 

This should solve your problem.


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## dirtydog50000 (Apr 20, 2007)

Your needle is not clearing the hat when it comes up and then starts it's way down, it gets caught in the hat and and the minor movement in the design is snaping the needle. drives you crazy huh?. Try pushing down on the hat down before you start sewing, sometimes you can get the design started and you'll be OK, you may also adjust your presser foot a little lower to push the hat down before the needle starts sewing or you could choose not to do structured hats they're not worth the trouble sometimes


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## Newcomb Graphix (Jul 13, 2007)

Thanks guys I appericiate the help.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

If you're still having trouble, start the design just off center so you avoid the seam.


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## htt117 (Aug 31, 2006)

All good suggestions. I agree that slowing down to 500 spm is proably the biggest help. We are picky about whose constructed caps we use. Some just do not seem to fit our forms as well. Try a different cap style and you may see better results. We also apply pressure from below by holding the back edges of the cap and pulling down before we close the hat device. By the way, be sure to open the back of the cap if it has a buckle or strap. This can help it lay flat.

Jim


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## Newcomb Graphix (Jul 13, 2007)

I am still having trouble. I can sew the logo which is right on the seem but when I go to sew the company name below the logo the needle breaks on the first stitch every time. I've tried all of the suggestions and I still get the same results. I think it's the hat. Have ya'll ever had to refuse to do a certain type of hat before?


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

YES! It's best to keep a list of styles that fit your frames & try to promote those.

Have you tried starting the design further away from the brim (raising it on the hat)? Be carefull if its a "tall" design or you may create other problems.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Raise the logo up a little bit. On the SWF the hat frame as about a 2" plate on it to hold the hat flat. When we go below that I can hear the needle deflecting. 

Also, when you frame the cap, flatten the front of the cap by pulling the bill back toward the top of the cap and bending it straight if it is curved. 

Go to a bigger needle. You didn't say what size you were using. Did you get the 12/80 sharp titanium coated?

If all else fails, outsource the the job to another embroiderer so you can keep your customer.


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## totalstitch (Apr 8, 2007)

Try changing your sewing order and stitch the wording on the bottom first. I always start at the bottom and work my way up to keep the hat/stabilizer from buckling at the bottom when I am putting a thick logo in the center. I always use 75/11 rp needles unless I am doing 3d I use sharps.


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## Newcomb Graphix (Jul 13, 2007)

Well I ended up just out sourcing the job and they we're able to sew out the hats. They did said that the type of hats were the worst that they've ever worked with.


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## phocused (Sep 21, 2007)

Some caps just don't have the right shape and consequently sew like hell. Only trial and error will reveal what caps run well. 

These problems can occur across the same brand of cap too. (ie. some Otto cap models run well on my Tajimas, some just don't work). Although, I have never had an issue running Richardson brand caps. They are a superior cap in every way.

We recently purchased a Tajima "stretch 8" and had the tech in 3 times in 2 weeks. We were breaking a lot of needles on cap jobs. Like 1 or 2 per run. 

Turns out the factory set the gap between the needle and the hook too tight. A slight amount of deflection was breaking the needle on the hook. That gap had to be re-adjusted (should be at least the width of thread). And we had to polish any burrs on the hook.

In addition Hirsch reccomends facing the eye of your needles "straight out" as opposed to a few degrees to the right. This is a simple way to increase the gap between needle and hook.

Most of the suggestions made here were good. However using more backing isn't going to help prevent needle deflection. In fact it could increase the occurance of needle breaks.

Also using a beefier or a titanium needle won't stop the deflection. It will make the needle less succeptable to breaking but won't fix the problem. You should be able to use a sharp #11 for all structured caps.


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## beecohen (May 14, 2009)

binki said:


> Here is what you need to do.
> 
> 
> sew caps with sharp point needles, use an 11/75 or 12/80 titanium coated needle
> ...


Hey, I see you're very knowledgeable about hat manufacturing. I own a clothing line and have found that most manufacturers have the same regurgitated stuff and was looking for something a little more unique. I was wondering if you get involved in custom blank hat manufacturing in small runs? We were looking for example for a 6-panel snapback hat with faux leather upper and underbrim. We'd like to add some puffed embroidery, etc. Not really sure if you do finishing but we'd be interested in hearing more about the manufacturing if possible

Thanks,

Brandon


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## cathyr (Feb 10, 2009)

It is critical that the design start at the bottom first. When you sew the logo first then go to the bottom lettering you have removed the slack of the material which allows it to lay flat. We specialize in hats. We use titanium 75/11 ball points. If we are sewing a new brand of hat, we can put the hat on the hooper(tajima) and visualize the bounce or play in the hat before we start the run. If there is alot, use 2 layers of cap tearaway to decrease the bounce. The slower you run your job the better. Also one thing often overlooked is the improper placement of the needle. Make sure it is straight and up all the way before you tighten the screw. Hope this helps.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

beecohen said:


> Hey, I see you're very knowledgeable about hat manufacturing. I own a clothing line and have found that most manufacturers have the same regurgitated stuff and was looking for something a little more unique. I was wondering if you get involved in custom blank hat manufacturing in small runs? We were looking for example for a 6-panel snapback hat with faux leather upper and underbrim. We'd like to add some puffed embroidery, etc. Not really sure if you do finishing but we'd be interested in hearing more about the manufacturing if possible
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon


we dont make the hat, we just put the design the customer wants on them.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

Brandon, maybe you should post that question in the referrals and recommendation forum instead of replying to a thread from 6 years ago?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

tfalk said:


> Brandon, maybe you should post that question in the referrals and recommendation forum instead of replying to a thread from 6 years ago?


I didn't even notice that but i have noticed a lot of thread hijacking of old threads. 

It is always better to start a new one when you have a new question.


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## stitchnbeauty (Jul 12, 2010)

Move the design up the hat. Sounds like you are hittingthe driver or the frame.


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## 13 Stitches (Jul 31, 2007)

cathyr said:


> It is critical that the design start at the bottom first. When you sew the logo first then go to the bottom lettering you have removed the slack of the material which allows it to lay flat. We specialize in hats. We use titanium 75/11 ball points. If we are sewing a new brand of hat, we can put the hat on the hooper(tajima) and visualize the bounce or play in the hat before we start the run. If there is alot, use 2 layers of cap tearaway to decrease the bounce. The slower you run your job the better. Also one thing often overlooked is the improper placement of the needle. Make sure it is straight and up all the way before you tighten the screw. Hope this helps.


Training at Pulse taught us to sew center out. I hadn't heard ever to start at the bottom first.


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## StitchShoppe (Jun 1, 2006)

Your digitizing should run from the bottom up, from the center out.You could also try going over the "bump" with some run stitch under lay to flatten it down.
I sew a lot of caps from Otto with the fused buckram, If 12 sharps are breaking try 14's


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## baz ent (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi, what does the cap plate look like? I have 2 a flat one and one raised.


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## StitchShoppe (Jun 1, 2006)

Th flat one is for flats with hoops, the raised one is for caps with the cap frame.


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## ericlhorne (Oct 29, 2019)

I wouldn't be surprised if they were FlexFit Structured caps. Those things are tough.


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## dirtydog50000 (Apr 20, 2007)

ericlhorne said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they were FlexFit Structured caps. Those things are tough.


Flex fits are the worst


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## luke711 (Mar 8, 2016)

What machine do you have? Tajima, SWF? And what model?


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