# Ironall VS Duracotton HT > Comparison



## spore (Sep 14, 2006)

I started out doing heat transfers using an Epsom C88 inkjet printer with durabrite inks. After seeing the amount of fading I was getting after a few washes I switched over to a laser printer (Oki 3400N) with Duracotton HT paper.

I made the switch from inkjet to laser for two reasons. The first was "_transfers without borders"_ and the second was fade resistance and durability. Don't switch to Duracotton for "_transfers without borders"_ because you'll still get them. Switch because the transfers don't fade much, even after many washes.

Below is a comparison of the two after only one wash. Both were washed in cool water and both were tumble dried low. The shirts were turned inside out. 100% cotton shirts, pressed with a Hix Presto 15.

I'm not trying to rag on Ironall. I know alot of people use it. I've played with Jetflex paper too, and had identical results. If you ever consider selling a shirt done with heat transfer... consider trying Duracotton HT.

*Ironall is on the left and Duracotton HT is on the right. *(Btw I forgot to mirror the image on the Duracotton shirt)


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

Jim:

Thank you for 'head-to-head' comparison. Very Interesting!

You mention that DuraCotton HT lacks 'Transfers without Borders'. To achieve 'Transfers without Borders', you need to overlay with Teflon (c) for 3 - 4 seconds, same temp and pressure, then hot peel quickly. Doing so, will achieve 'Transfers without Borders'.

Pls give the Teflon pressing a try - there should not be any borders

have a great one!


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## spore (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Ken,
Thanks for the tip. The represenative I bought my Duracotton from didn't mention using teflon. I'll be sure to give that a try! Either way, I'm very happy with your product.


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

Thanks for the comparisons. When you say, "without borders", are you talking about not having to cut the white part out, so it doesn't leave a film behind?

Also how is the feel?


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## spore (Sep 14, 2006)

prometheus said:


> When you say, "without borders", are you talking about not having to cut the white part out, so it doesn't leave a film behind?


Exactly.



prometheus said:


> how is the feel?


The hand is soft, especially after a wash.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Something is wrong with this picture. We have shirts that have washed many times with Ironall and there isn't the hint of fading.


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## spore (Sep 14, 2006)

It's not the washing which causes fading, it's the drying.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

spore said:


> It's not the washing which causes fading, it's the drying.


It's possible that you're doing something differently than other members who have tried ironall. I've seen shirts that were done with ironall and washed/dried that haven't faded like that.


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

I have not used ironall, but I have used DuracottonHT. Still, I have seen pictures of ironall items that have been through washing and did not look like your report.

I am no ironall expert, but... is there possibly something different about your pressing vs. others who are not having this issue with ironall?


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## polomac (Jun 27, 2006)

I've used iron all from the first day it came out.. Nevrer got a wash result like that. The duraNrite aren't transfer inks they are pigment. I use Magic Mix inks for transfer and they stay bright wash after wash. I als used the durracotton ... Tested it when it was first for fuser oil and the new 98 and ht. There is fading after a wash not much and it is not self weeving paper you still see a border .. repress with teflon or strech like the instructions. The only self weeving paper is image clip. I don't use it to much work but i lkie the results.There are also test on the durracotton forum with the same photos after pressing and washing. It's all to each there own and that makes your cients happy no matter the paper.


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## polomac (Jun 27, 2006)

Sorry For The Spelling Error It's Been A Long DayAnd Night.


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

I've also ran some test with Ironall and had similar problems with the faded color. I am printing on an Epson with Durabrite ink. It didn't look that great when I pressed it, and was about the same after a test wash. I've seen other posts where the color looked great. Could it be bad batches?


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

prometheus said:


> I've also ran some test with Ironall and had similar problems with the faded color. I am printing on an Epson with Durabrite ink. It didn't look that great when I pressed it, and was about the same after a test wash. I've seen other posts where the color looked great. Could it be bad batches?


I read in another post that in order to get better wash performance they had to press Ironall (or equivalent) for nearly a minute. For those that are having good results, how long are you pressing?

Thanks
Lloyd


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## mzmadmax (Nov 16, 2006)

prometheus said:


> I've seen other posts where the color looked great. Could it be bad batches?


I wonder if the brand of detergent makes a difference on fading? 

Do certain paper/ink combinations hold up better against certain detergents than others? 

Also, does anyone know, how much effect is there, if any, on fading when the detergent contains "color safe bleach"?


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

mzmadmax said:


> I wonder if the brand of detergent makes a difference on fading?
> 
> Do certain paper/ink combinations hold up better against certain detergents than others?
> 
> Also, does anyone know, how much effect is there, if any, on fading when the detergent contains "color safe bleach"?


There might be something to that.


When I do a wash test (and the instructions that I send with shirts), I recommend the first wash be done in cold water with a mild detergent.

Here is a DuraCottonHT shirt that I put through the cold wash and medium dry.

Next, I put it through a standard wash.

This one has been through two washings


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

CoolTech said:


> There might be something to that.
> 
> 
> When I do a wash test (and the instructions that I send with shirts), I recommend the first wash be done in cold water with a mild detergent.
> ...


Is that Pompano Beach Florida? Used to live there for quite a few years.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

Well, I must say that in general, Laser Transfers should give you better results than Inkjet Transfers (not referring to dye sublimation).


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

> Is that Pompano Beach Florida? Used to live there for quite a few years.


According to the customer, it was taken in 45' of water at Lighthouse Reef out of Pompano Beach, Fl. on Easter 2006


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## spore (Sep 14, 2006)

vctradingcubao said:


> Well, I must say that in general, Laser Transfers should give you better results than Inkjet Transfers


Agreed, and that's the point of the thread but everyone will have slightly different results.


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## rumzdrapes (Dec 18, 2006)

Ken,

How can we get our hands on the Duracotton samples or buy the Duracotton in UK?

There is no response when sending from emails sent to the adress for the UK distributor.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

DuraCotton98 said:


> Jim:
> 
> Thank you for 'head-to-head' comparison. Very Interesting!
> 
> ...


I pressed a shirt today with a duracotton ht transfer. I followed the instructions and pressed for 20 seconds at 400F. Then pressed immediately for 6 seconds with a teflon sheet.
My question is do you press the teflon immediately after the initial press or wait to press the teflon and if so do how long do you wait ?

When I pulled the transfer off it came of very easily, like butter but around the transfer were there was no printing it was like fuzzy with the glue. Did not trim the image.

THanks
Mark


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Girlfriend just did a press with Duracotton HT and when done she had a box.
Did the 2 presses per the instruction sheet.
First pics is w/the flash on and second is with flash on the camera on.
Still there after washing.
Any advice ?
Thanks
Mark


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## MYDAMIT (Jan 14, 2007)

hi,
i also do some experiment between duracotton and iroanll, and i have good result with them. I like the iron all because you can strechout more than duracotton and you can iron the design. the fading! when i used durabrite theres a fade in first wash but when i change to magicmix or any heat transfer ink like the one selling in coastal business.no fade at all...
For me the best paper for heat transfer application for inkjet is ironall and for lazer is duracotton.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

rumzdrapes said:


> Ken,
> 
> How can we get our hands on the Duracotton samples or buy the Duracotton in UK?
> 
> There is no response when sending from emails sent to the adress for the UK distributor.


You should contact Ken directly via Private Message (by clicking on his username) or by visiting his website for business questions.


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

freebird1963 said:


> I pressed a shirt today with a duracotton ht transfer. I followed the instructions and pressed for 20 seconds at 400F. Then pressed immediately for 6 seconds with a teflon sheet.
> My question is do you press the teflon immediately after the initial press or wait to press the teflon and if so do how long do you wait ?
> 
> When I pulled the transfer off it came of very easily, like butter but around the transfer were there was no printing it was like fuzzy with the glue. Did not trim the image.
> ...


Hi Mark:

Press DuraCotton HT for 14 - 15 seconds, 400 - 410 F degrees, 3/4 pressure on a low-end manual press. Peel off the DuraCotton HT carrier paper. Then overlay the Teflon (c) sheet and press again (3 - 4 seconds) - HOT Peel quickly.

We have NOT found any difference in results whether the Teflon pressing is immeidate or delayed.

There is *NO* need to press DuraCotton HT for 20 seconds nor to press the Teflon for 6 or more seconds. We have noticed 'overcooking' reduces durability + can cause the polymer to be seen on the fabric.

have a great one!


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

rumzdrapes said:


> Ken,
> 
> How can we get our hands on the Duracotton samples or buy the Duracotton in UK?
> 
> There is no response when sending from emails sent to the adress for the UK distributor.


 
Hi:

Simply contact us directly and we will get you sorted out instantly.

have a great one!


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

freebird1963 said:


> Girlfriend just did a press with Duracotton HT and when done she had a box.
> Did the 2 presses per the instruction sheet.
> First pics is w/the flash on and second is with flash on the camera on.
> Still there after washing.
> ...


Hi Mark:

Interesting!

The image on the left appears to me to have a light yellow background (particularly towards the bottom), outside the actual picture area.

The image on the right seems to have a darker area on the polymer outside the picture area.

If you take a blank piece of DuraCotton HT and press as per the instructions, the polymer should be clear.

If the polymer is clear, then you know 1) you are pressing correctly and 2) your printer is putting down a light dusting of color onto the DuraCotton HT that you do NOT see until pressed.

The 'dusting' can be caused by a) a dirty printer b) leaking toner cartridges or c) incorrect paper setting for DuraCotton HT (including a too hot fuser).

Pls contact me directly and we will help correct the issue.

have a great one!


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## bbycks (Jan 8, 2007)

Cool Tech-

What are the washing directions you are giving with the shirts. I want to make sure I cover everything.


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

bbycks said:


> Cool Tech-
> 
> What are the washing directions you are giving with the shirts. I want to make sure I cover everything.


Hi Lori:

Personally, I recommend following the washing instructions on the label of the shirt.

+ *NEVER use BLEACH!*

As well, please wash with white and light fabric colors. If a white / light colored shirt is washed with darks / dirty laundry, the polymer can pick up the dyes (if bleeding) or dirt and can become discolored (such that the polymer will then show on a white or lighter colored garment). This issue arises with most transfer papers, including the DuraCotton papers.

The DuraCotton HT polymer is clear and remains clear if washed with care! 

have a great one!


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## bbycks (Jan 8, 2007)

DuraCotton98 said:


> Hi Lori:
> 
> Personally, I recommend following the washing instructions on the label of the shirt.
> 
> ...


 
I made a shirt a couple of weeks ago using a Epson C88 printer and iron all transfer. My husband washed it in hot water with Biz and it faded quite a bit. Do you think it was the hot water or the biz that made it fade? or was it a mixture of the two? Yesterday I was another of the shirts we made, but with warm water and a mild detergent and I still got a little of the fading? What am I doing wrong?


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

bbycks said:


> I made a shirt a couple of weeks ago using a Epson C88 printer and iron all transfer. My husband washed it in hot water with Biz and it faded quite a bit. Do you think it was the hot water or the biz that made it fade? or was it a mixture of the two? Yesterday I was another of the shirts we made, but with warm water and a mild detergent and I still got a little of the fading? What am I doing wrong?


All of them are going to fade somewhat. I washed an Ironall in cold water with very little detergent and it faded.


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

Lori:

Try DuraCotton HT printed on an Oki 3400 / 5500 or 5800 model. Then wash and compare.

have a great one!


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## honzo (May 14, 2007)

Ken, I'm about to buy the oki3200, cheap & brand new..any advice before I buy it? I would prefer the 3400 & the other higher models but this 1 is going cheap!


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## honzo (May 14, 2007)

oh..to use with the HT paper.


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

honzo said:


> Ken, I'm about to buy the oki3200, cheap & brand new..any advice before I buy it? I would prefer the 3400 & the other higher models but this 1 is going cheap!


Hi Honzo:

We have compared the color vibrancy and wash durability of prints from the Oki 3200 and Oki 3400.

The Oki 3400 wins all comparisons hand down.

We strongly recommend the Oki 3400 / 500 / 5800 over previous printer generations. The toner is just so much better!

AutoART is headquartered in Canada and we work very closely with Oki Canada. We are currently beta-testing a large-format printer in conjunction with DuraCotton HT. We await permission to pubically show the new printer in Charlotte June 7, 8 and 9 (Printwear / NBM Big Show).

As well, we have been told there is a price drop associated with the Oki 3400 (only). I think that drop happens in a few days.

have a great one!


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## spinningrock (Jun 7, 2006)

DuraCotton98 said:


> Press DuraCotton HT for 14 - 15 seconds, 400 - 410 F degrees, 3/4 pressure on a low-end manual press. Peel off the DuraCotton HT carrier paper. Then overlay the Teflon (c) sheet and press again (3 - 4 seconds) - HOT Peel quickly.


Do you overlay the Teflon sheet directly over the exposed print? I did this and some ink stuck to the Teflon sheet which messed up another print because the sheet transfered ink residue to the 2nd shirt. 

Do you have to wash the teflon sheet after every overlay or am I doing something wrong?


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

spinningrock said:


> Do you overlay the Teflon sheet directly over the exposed print? I did this and some ink stuck to the Teflon sheet which messed up another print because the sheet transfered ink residue to the 2nd shirt.
> 
> Do you have to wash the teflon sheet after every overlay or am I doing something wrong?



If you're ever using teflon directly in contact with previously transfered material (be it DuraCotton, Plastisol, whatever), then I would suggest wiping of the teflon sheet real quick with a rag before using it again. It doesn't need to be washed - the non-stick surface means simply wiping it off should work in most cases.

It does also seem a bit odd to me that they are recommending peeling hot after doing an extra press with teflon. In most cases when this is done, the teflon is peeled cold to avoid just what you've experienced. The finish may vary in this specific case, perhaps? You might try it both way to compare.


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

Twinge said:


> If you're ever using teflon directly in contact with previously transfered material (be it DuraCotton, Plastisol, whatever), then I would suggest wiping of the teflon sheet real quick with a rag before using it again. It doesn't need to be washed - the non-stick surface means simply wiping it off should work in most cases.
> 
> It does also seem a bit odd to me that they are recommending peeling hot after doing an extra press with teflon. In most cases when this is done, the teflon is peeled cold to avoid just what you've experienced. The finish may vary in this specific case, perhaps? You might try it both way to compare.


Hi Spinningrock and Twinge:

Let us go over this: press 405 F degrees, 14 - 15 seconds, 3/4's pressure on a manual press. Hot Peel, then overlay with Teflon and press again for 4 - 5 seconds. HOT PEEL.

If there is toner left on the Teflon, then that suggests the heat press is not up to temp (despite what the thermostat reads), you may also increase your pressure a bit or the time. In most cases, the heat press temp is not up to the target and should be upped.

When pressed correctly during the first pressing, NO toner is left on the Teflon (during the second pressing). The purpose of the Teflon pressing is to drive the polymer into the cotton, increasing wash durability, transfer without borders and the lack of hand. The color vibrancy also improves during the second pressing.

I demonstrated the (second pressing) process last week in Charlotte - I did not use the Teflon and pressed for 4 - 5 seconds directly with the upper platinum. There was NO toner left on the upper platinum.

If you leave the Teflon on for a cold peel, the DuraCotton HT polymer takes on a heavy shine. So if you truly desire Transfer without Borders, cold peeling the Telfon is not advised.

If you slightly delay the Teflon peeling (warm peel), then the transfer becomes rough like sandpaper. As well, the polymer is visible.

So those are the reasons and justification for peeling the Teflon HOT and quickly.

have a great one!


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

sorry if i sound a bit stupid but can u use Duracotton with inkjet printer's as u r talking about toners i guessed they r laser? Or do i need to get a new printer =(


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

deniseg said:


> sorry if i sound a bit stupid but can u use Duracotton with inkjet printer's as u r talking about toners i guessed they r laser? Or do i need to get a new printer =(


They are strictly for laser printers.


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

thnx Robert lol dave let me know 2 =( guess i have to get another printer if i want these better transfers) i only hope the laser printer gives me as good a pic as i use photos and atm i am getting very good, clear pics i love how the pic turn out just not the feel of the finished item , a bit stiff =(


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Denise...go to your local office supply store and print out a sample from the Okidata 5000 series...you will see just how good it can be....then you can use Duracotton HT or any other laser transfer paper


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

as far as i know there isn't anyone in the Isle of Man selling OKI so i can't do that however i am going over to England early sept and will go see if i can find anyone selling it down the sth near Bounmouth


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

There are a lot of color laser printers out there... Check and see what is available to you and then come back with the list. I am sure there will be several members who will be familiar with the printers that are available. I am not sure about all laser transfer papers, but some have separate papers for the oil based fusers and for the non oil.


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## deniseg (Jul 23, 2007)

just a short update to printer's couldn't find anyone that has any they will order them if i know what to ask for they did have a Samsung in house as the r the service agents for them so will go with an Oki I can order it and get it over here in a couple of days just need to get the Duracotton ht now


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

Hi Denise:

The Samsung 300 works with DuraCotton HT as well.

have a great one!


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## DuraCotton98 (Nov 29, 2006)

DuraCotton98 said:


> Hi Denise:
> 
> The Samsung 300 works with DuraCotton HT as well.
> 
> have a great one!


 
CORRECTION:

There can be jamming issues with the Samsung 300 and 500 printer series. Theese printers are not recommended.

have a great one!


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