# buy ads and farm out or buy a DTG printer?



## teehugger (Jul 6, 2015)

hey everyone, i'm looking for some impartial perspective here as i've hit a VERY annoying roadblack (actually a whole SERIES of them, but this one in particular is driving me nuts) towards establish my own DTG printing business.

i'm a bike riding/tree hugging amputee who's in a vocational rehabilitation program and have decided that printing full color bike themed teeshirts (to start) is something that i'd really like to do as i'm also an artist. printing tees would combine my talents as well as passions doing something i could take pride in as i want to print on domestic blanks too.

the problem i need your two cents on is which is the better business plan to spend the start-up money i'm working towards?

*A: spend $7,000 on a pair of ads in a national magazine like mountain bike action, farm my printing out, sell tees at $30 or more and concentrate ALL of my energy on marketing

B: invest the money in a printer, do the printing in house, and charge $25 a tee and just use alternate marketing outlets like mailing lists (contests and coupons), social media, search engine optimization, craigslist and blog reviews of shirts etc.*

regardless of A or B, i will already be selling tees on ebay and eventually amazon which DOES allow teeshirt sales regardless of rumors i've seen posted here

i have a strong suspicion that most of you will agree with which is the saner long term investment and would like to see what you think as either proof that i'm right, or that my plan isn't sound for the long run.

BTW, these two options are both based on $18,000 worth of seed money i'm working towards that can ONLY be used on the business, so those are the only two options for spending the money. i'm convinced the consultant is deliberately trying to sabotage my business every way he can including driving me nuts arguing with him about every facet i've spent half a year researching and planning

many thanks in advance for your replies


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## jaroh (Mar 11, 2014)

cogtees said:


> hey everyone, i'm looking for some impartial perspective here as i've hit a VERY annoying roadblack (actually a whole SERIES of them, but this one in particular is driving me nuts) towards establish my own DTG printing business.
> 
> i'm a bike riding/tree hugging amputee who's in a vocational rehabilitation program and have decided that printing full color bike themed teeshirts (to start) is something that i'd really like to do as i'm also an artist. printing tees would combine my talents as well as passions doing something i could take pride in as i want to print on domestic blanks too.
> 
> ...


I think it should depends on what do you do best.

In A. You are at the mercy of your fulfillment shop. Usually the problem here is it takes them more time to ship your shirt. Of course the margin is small.

In B. You still need to do marketing but have complete control of production.

In my case I use route B. as I need to get real world experience in production.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

I would be terrified of spending that kind of money on advertising. All your money is gone before you even know if you have a good product and an effective ad.

I would try something like a Facebook ad, where $25 spent will tell you whether you are on the right track. The whole point of FB is to gather info on users so advertisers can tightly target ads based on what people really care about. Yes, the ad format itself is small and rather limited, so your design needs to be able to effectively sell itself from a photograph, but you would probably be able to reach more of your target market with FB than any given biking magazine. I mean, who has subscriptions to magazines anymore? I used to have no less than 6 subscriptions to different kinds of magazines at all times. I now have zero. The interwebs are a far better and dynamic source of info on ones interests than print. Take away ads for drugs/booze/$15kWatches/cars and magazines would fold instantly.


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## Maxcat (Nov 23, 2014)

Please bear in mind I am not selling T shirts at this time, but I have been successfully self employed.

I would not do either. As a consumer print ads in magazines only work with me if they are there month after month and year after year. I do actually shop with print advertisers from my favorite magazine. I think of print advertising as a very long term commitment.

I also would not spend money on purchasing a DTG printer. Outsource first. You need to find out if people like your designs first. It sounds like you have a pretty specific niche so some paid ads on FB would probably give you a good read on whether people like what you have or not.

If I felt I really wanted to print my own I would go with an inkjet and heat press to start.

I am all about capital preservation and determining the best place to spend my money. I just don't think you'll get the highest return from either your plan A or plan B.

NoXid summed it up nicely.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.


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## teehugger (Jul 6, 2015)

> I am all about capital preservation and determining the best place to spend my money. I just don't think you'll get the highest return from either your plan A or plan B.


further info, the voc-rehab program i'm in is for self employment, and the person i'm arguing with about EVERY aspect of my business is a consultant i'm convinced is trying to sabotage my biz plan at every opportunity. i've already proven him 110% wrong on a FREE marketing related issue he chose to talk over me about. i've read several books on marketing alone, and share your "run lean" sentiments. i know of a bunch of ways to get free marketing... social media, search engine optimization, mailing lists etc. etc. etc.

that's the whole reason i want to own my own business... low overhead, work at home, no need to have a massive inventory (with either option)

the program i'm in is working towards $18,000 in seed money to start my business. the A & B options are the source of contention on how best to spend that money so in essence, the funding "already exists" (IF i can make it to a business plan review without the psycho i'm almost forced to deal with completely sabotaging my presentation or i go to jail for choking him to death to make him STFU... whichever comes first) and MUST be used for the business. as far as i'm concerned, one of the two options is an insane waste of money and the other a much more solid investment.

there is no "option C"


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

cogtees said:


> further info, the voc-rehab program i'm in is for self employment, and the person i'm arguing with about EVERY aspect of my business is a consultant i'm convinced is trying to sabotage my biz plan at every opportunity. i've already proven him 110% wrong on a FREE marketing related issue he chose to talk over me about. i've read several books on marketing alone, and share your "run lean" sentiments. i know of a bunch of ways to get free marketing... social media, search engine optimization, mailing lists etc. etc. etc.
> 
> that's the whole reason i want to own my own business... low overhead, work at home, no need to have a massive inventory (with either option)
> 
> ...


Okay, I better understand the context now. Do you HAVE to use this yahoo in preparing your plan? If you can ditch him, do so.

I did something, sort of, similar. Oregon has a program where you can use your unemployment to startup a business. Have to write a business plan and have it reviewed and approved. Beyond that it is hands off. (The program allows you to work on your business rather than looking for work, but you give up any extensions, and they only offer the program to you if they think you would otherwise burn through all your benefits without finding a job.)

Are you familiar with SCORE
https://www.score.org/resources/tab-a
They have examples and templates for putting together a business plan; it is were I started. You may also be able to find a mentor in your area through SCORE.

Low overhead is key. Most businesses fail because they lack the funding to last long enough to build a customer base (of course some are just bad ideas).

I would forget entirely about print ads until you are familiar with your means of production and have proven the demand for specific designs via affordable media, such as facebook ads. Even after being established, I seriously doubt print ads will be worth it. They are _*very*_ expensive for what they are, and probably not a good fit for a small business.


As to production methods ... there are options and flavors of options.


Injet or Laser printer based transfers that you heat press to the shirts. Use only professional materials. The stuff you can buy in the craft stores is total poop. Even then, most will tell you that this is not as durable as screen printing or DTG.
DTG printers run from around $5k to $20k, and the ink isn't cheap either. But this is great for printing multi color highly detailed art, like photos and paintings. It is also suitable to low volume and one of a kind productions.
Plastisol transfers. These are screen printed onto special transfer paper (can do it yourself with screen printing equipment, or order them from a company). You heat press them to shirts AS YOU GET ORDERS, so you aren't stuck with 36 pink small women's shirts with a pit bull graphic that never sell.
And, or course, screen printing directly to the shirts. A few of us do this, more or less on demand (small batches) to meet each week's orders. Most people would tell you that it is a silly idea


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## Maxcat (Nov 23, 2014)

If it's use it or lose it on the money I'd buy the printer. Print ads are a long, long term investment and won't lead to impulse buys. I would categorize T shirts as a want not a need.

With the printer you could always try to pick up some side work printing for others. It seems there's a new thread every other day here on the forum with someone looking for a fulfillment printer. (call it Plan B-1)


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## teehugger (Jul 6, 2015)

> Okay, I better understand the context now. Do you HAVE to use this yahoo in preparing your plan? If you can ditch him, do so.


i don't know, but i've already voiced concerns with my counselor in a private meeting after the first bout of arguments i had with "monkey suit" (that is slang for 3 piece suits in case anyone mistakes it for a racial slur) and told him i thought MS was a pain to work with.

i really DO want to fire him SOOOOOOO bad, but not if it costs me the entire year i've wasted in the program and my chance to make a presentation.



> Are you familiar with SCORE


absolutely! they come up in many of the better small biz books i've read. (i've read over 20 books on biz, SEO, marketing and site optimization... i've been doing my homework) there's another similar program i can't remember the name of that DEFINITELY isn't available locally.

at first, i was unable to connect with them locally as i was misinformed that they have no local branches and started chatting by email with a rep who eventually put me in touch with a local advisor i love working with and WISH i could replace the consultant with.

she looked at the business plan (only missing the financials) i drafted and called it excellent and that my sales estimates were quite conservative. one of the first things she did too was suggest the very same "secret weapon" marketing trick only a couple of the BEST books i've read suggest that the consultant immediately dismissed until i hit him with STFU evidence and he's never broached the subject since. i think THAT really sticks in his craw! 

he seems to be all about marketing/marketing/marketing, and this amateur easily one upped him on his "home turf".

my score counselor is both a smart cookie, and really does a great job of re-energizing me after the vampire drains all of my enthusiasm. i've yet to set up another appointment to discuss alternate plans to get funded, but i always try to seek outside input on topics as i'm doing here.



> I would forget entirely about print ads


i agree. i don't want to spend ANY money on marketing when i know of one particular way to market that even experts aren't hip to yet but that i've seen proof of in action. i'd only start advertising when i have built finances to bootstrap with. my 1st goal is just to own production and have the best profit margins.

DTG is the best fit for me because i'm targeting tree hugging liberals with my bike and environmentalist designs, so water based inks on made in USA 100% cotton is the way to go, both for marketing, and my own sense of pride. my profit margins are going to be lower, but i'm not in this to get rich. in fact, i don't want to sell any more tees than i can print in a 40 hour week.

the first thing i considered was plastisol because it's very cheap to do, but the inks are oil based which goes against my beliefs, and as an amputee, it would be way too messy and clunky a tech to work with. 

dye-sub? requires synthetic materials... again... not for me or the "hippies" i'm targeting with my primary business



> DTG printers run from around $5k to $20k


i've seen chinese ones for even less, in the $3k range if memory serves me right, but after doing research here, i have my heart set on a *spectra 3000* at $7k. all the reviews i've read so far call it a high quality game changer


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## custeez (May 23, 2009)

Both options sound like a disaster.


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

custeez said:


> Both options sound like a disaster.


Agreed.

There are so many good printers with great pricing that it doesn't make sense to buy the equipment and do it yourself.

This does not mean the other option is what you should do.. Actually it sucks.

IMHO you should not try to target a niche market, why restrict yourself to a tiny part of the population? Hook up with a reliable printer and start knocking on doors to get sales. If you do a good job they will reorder regularly because the great thing about this biz is that garments are a consumable. Sell to every business in your locality and build up a portfolio of repeat buyers. Landscapers, builders, plumbers, clubs, teams ... Get the picture?

Use software to automate and make their reordering easier. Give them their own site to do this. (hint. www.shirttools.com).

Rinse and repeat.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

TPrintDesigner said:


> Agreed.
> 
> There are so many good printers with great pricing that it doesn't make sense to buy the equipment and do it yourself.
> 
> ...


Uhm ... says a good printer with great pricing 

The sense it makes is vertical integration. One has control over the entire process and real ownership of the final results. One captures the profits that would otherwise go to a third party printer. One has the satisfaction of hands-on work.

That one creates the ideas in no way disqualifies one from also executing them. That end-to-end control is one thing us former corporate cube dwellers _really_ like 

I'm not saying that it is the correct choice for everyone, but you are certainly assuming a lot in proclaiming that it is the wrong choice. /rant


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## teehugger (Jul 6, 2015)

as to the business consultant, problem solved. i fired him over the weekend. instead of helping me move forwards, he was dragging me backwards and making my stress level skyrocket.



> IMHO you should not try to target a niche market, why restrict yourself to a tiny part of the population?


niche markets are where the action is at. there are too many generalists out there, even WITHIN niches. that's my point. as someone who's tried shopping for biking teeshirts myself, the ones out there SUCK! they IGNORE dozens of specific niches that interest cyclists... recumbents, randonneuring, lowriders, scrapers, rat rods, choppers, kustoms, bike delivery, street party bikes and so on. to a typical bicycle teeshirt maker, "a bike is a bike" and i've found that other cyclists hate the lack of variety and mostly 1 color plastisol out there.

most bike teeshirts that try to be funny, aren't too, though one of my personal favorites was one i bought for just $8 or less a a steve and barry's 








as an amputee, it spoke to me, and as a former toddler who got in trouble for custom painting his trike (i was sooooo ahead of my time!) it resonates with me personally. (one female agreed she "digged my ride" when i wore the tee)

i wish i could quote you what book(s) disagree with you so you could look it up, but if you try to be too general, you compete with all the other generalists doing the same thing, but if you target a niche that is ignored, you will own it.

the same thing goes for boomboxes. that's one of a few other niches i want to get into. in talking with collectors, they agree 1 color plastisol designs suck when many collectible boxes are really gaudy colored, but also lament that those same very boxes they buy for up to $1,000 or more are never seen in boombox shirts.

i'm finding the niche markets that match my interest i know from experience aren't being properly served.

i'm not trying to sell a million shirts, just 10 a day is enough to live much more comfortably than i am now, and i DON'T want to print more than 50 a day 5 days a week. i want to stay small, and like the last poster said, as an artist, i like doing hands on things. making shirts would be a form of meditation just like cooking delicious foods is. that's why i want to print shirts. that, and i can work in isolation without direct customer interaction. as an artistic tree hugging introvert, DTG printing bike and environmental related teeshirts totally suits my skills and temperment.

i have several other niches of interest i'm starting to pursue besides boomboxes (can't even find good stock photos in that niche) and humor, but will have to shelve political until the business is mine as i can't print anything "controversial".

as to ordering, i was going to juggle a BUNCH of outlets... eBay, amazon, my own website and possibly more and was planning on having at least my website integrate directly into my accounting software... likely quickbooks, though the current version has been getting bad reviews


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

^ All sounds great. Almost a sort of manifesto for whatever breed of T-shirt makers we are


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## teehugger (Jul 6, 2015)

i do tend to go on when i have strong feelings about something, don't i?


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

cogtees said:


> i do tend to go on when i have strong feelings about something, don't i?


Gotta learn to fit those things on a T-shirt


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## teehugger (Jul 6, 2015)

*HAHAHAHA! *
now you've really *PITH*ed me off... no need to be so *TERSE*.


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## diyjunkie (Aug 18, 2015)

Ok since this thread is 4 weeks old this advice might come too late. But after weeks of lurking, your story is compelling enough that I figured I had to stick my nose in. 

You've gotten some *excellent* advice. But there are a few things you're missing. I could type on this topic for days and perhaps I'll put up some more general posts, but for now, I'll try to be brief. 

I think both plans are horrible. If you have not already, buy "The Lean Startup." His process is EXACTLY what you need. But beyond the book let me give you two pieces of advice it took me years to figure out. 

*1) Find something that works. Then scale it.*

Yeah I know you're saying 'that's obvious.' Sadly, it's not. So let me say it again. *Find something that works. Then scale it.* 

You've not sold your first shirt. I like your niche. But I have no idea if you can make a living at it. Nor do you. Yet.

So let me get to #2 then we'll come back to number one.

*2) Figure out how much it costs to sell a shirt then work backward from there.* 

This is complex at first but it is the secret sauce to this. (trust me)

Lemme give you a simple example. If you run an ad for Geico insurance on your personal blog and people click on that link then get a quote, you get something like $20 for the lead. (It's called lead generation or lead gen in business.)

Now you don't have a blog. So instead you buy advertising on a blog. And you pay (let's say) 2 bucks per click. Now it's simple. If 1 out of 10 people gets a quote, you break even. (10 clicks x $2 is the same as the $20 you get for the 1 lead) If 2 out of 10 people get a quote you double your money.

So how many ads would you buy if you doubled your money on them? Answer: All of them.

I use this example because it is easy to understand. Your business has the same formula just with a lot more inputs. 

*SO LET'S GO BACK TO #1*

So you find a local printer you like and you get an agreement you can live with. 

Now your task is to sell one shirt for more than the cost of the printed shirt + your advertising. 

Remember #1 is:
*Find something that works. Then scale it.*

If you make $0.25 on that shirt it does not matter. You can buy more ads and get more shirts printed. 

*IN FACT YOU CAN LOSE MONEY AT THIS AND STILL BE SUCCESSFUL*

Now this gets more complex, but I'll make it easy. Let's say you know that if *you* did production in house your cost per shirt would be $5 all in. (ink, lights, water whatever) Now say your printer is charging you $10 per shirt and you're selling them for $20.

If it cost you $11 marketing per shirt you're 'losing' a buck a shirt because you're outsourcing but you're winning big because you now know how much it cost to sell a shirt. 

You sell 200 hundred shirts and gladly lose $200 because you're getting thousands of dollars of knowledge.

Now you bring it in house and you make $4 a shirt.

Get that $11 a shirt advertising down to $5 and you've got a very, very good margin.

So then the challenge is scaling and operational efficiency. Lower your costs as you can and find more ways to market and you can grow it as big as you want.

Always remember in any sort of advertising or marketing to ask yourself the same question: "How much did it cost me to sell 1 t-shirt." 

If you do that, you'll never go wrong.

-------
EDIT: can someone tell me why my bold tags are funky?


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