# 5 Best Practice Tips for creating a successful T-Shirt Website?



## mrmagic2713

simply put, what are the 5 most important issues to address to create a successfull t-shirt website?


----------



## DickTees.net

*Re: website*

1. Ease of Use
2. Aesthetically Pleasing
3. Search Engine Optimized
4. NO FRAMES!!!
5. NO FLASH INTRO MOVIES!!!


----------



## jdr8271

*Re: website*

1. Your customer knows exactly what youre selling and how to buy it within ten seconds.
2. Clean professional website
3. Search Engine Optimization


----------



## honeyflip

*Re: website*

Amen. As that word is less than 10 characters (what's with that limitation?), again, I say: Amen.


----------



## das_king

*Re: website*

And I just read on CNN that people take less than 1/2 of a second to judge the appearance of a site. So the layout and the color choices are crucial.


----------



## Rodney

1. people friendly (easy navigation/fast loading/useable in all browsers)

2. search engine friendly (basic seo work done)

3. as few clicks to the sale as possible (no flash intros, short checkout process)

4. accept all payment types

5. Have ALL potential questions answered by your website text since you can't be there to answer the customer's question. (how much, what brand, how much is shipping, where do you ship, what is the sizing like, 100% cotton?, what's the company history, phone number, return policy, mailing address, product photos, customer comments, how fast do you ship, printing method, etc, etc etc)


----------



## addiktd2yoo

This is just one and should be obvious. But I see alot of e-stores without it but...

A link to enlarge the picture/design!


----------



## Vtec44

1. Great designs!
2. Ease of use (including but not limited to clean design layout, complementing colors, fast loading site and pictures, etc)
3. Security (SSL installed)
4. Quality materials & designs (including shirt quality & durability of print method)
5. Great customer service (quick fast trackable shipping, email answered in timely manner, reasonable refund policy).


----------



## Buechee

I did even ask, but thank you all. I'm getting ready to design a site for myself and I could use this thread.


----------



## z28melissa

As a consumer, if there aren't prices for the shirts in front of my face, I leave. That's my 2 cents.


----------



## rhoang57

It seems that recently I've been receiving tons of unsolicited emails regarding SEO (Search Engine Optimization). What have you all found to be some effective ways to get your sites found by the general public on search engines?


----------



## Rodney

rhoang57 said:


> It seems that recently I've been receiving tons of unsolicited emails regarding SEO (Search Engine Optimization). What have you all found to be some effective ways to get your sites found by the general public on search engines?


Check out this post:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/showpost.php?p=15443&postcount=2


----------



## WhatsYourBurn

I would also add that it's important to keep your site consistant from page to page. No matter where you are on the site the information should always stay in one place.


----------



## hestonian

I like to know what shipping is up front. I don't want to have to go through several screens, inputting my name, address, etc., only to get to the final screen to find out what the shipping charge is. 

It's only one tip, but, in addition to the great tips already posted, it's one I plan on using with my own site.


----------



## City Citizen

What's wrong with Flash intros?


----------



## Rodney

> What's wrong with Flash intros?


Flash intros do not help the shopper. They don't add anything to the shopping experience. They hurt your search engine optimization efforts.

You don't want to make a person, that may want to give you money, wait around for your fancy flash intro. Every extra click they have to make to get into your site is another decision they have to make before they give you money.

If you give them what they are looking for sooner, you'll leave them less chance to decide to hit that back button and move on.

More practically, take a look at some successful ecommerce sites and see how many flash intros you see? Threadless, tshirthell, cafepress, amazon, ebay, t-shirts.com.


----------



## Solmu

Threadless have started using some more obnoxious intro type stuff lately.

No one who visits their site regularly will ever forget the chilling "HOODIES HOODIES HOODIES HAHAHAHA!" sound bite week. I still shudder at the memory.

I guess my point is these are techniques established sites can indulge in if they really want to, but potential death to a new site.


----------



## monkeylantern

I agree threadless has lost the plot recently.

Their sales banners which mean you cannot see any shirts when you first load the site on 70% of computer setups make me shudder.


----------



## hanau

anyone able to sites that are laid out and meets most of the citeria that everyone is listing?


----------



## tcrowder

Flash intros are a pain, I never sit and let them load.

Terry


----------



## Korri79

City Citizen said:


> What's wrong with Flash intros?


it takes longer to load. i know when i go to a new website if it takes too long i get out of it.


----------



## Ken Styles

hestonian said:


> I like to know what shipping is up front. I don't want to have to go through several screens, inputting my name, address, etc., only to get to the final screen to find out what the shipping charge is.
> 
> It's only one tip, but, in addition to the great tips already posted, it's one I plan on using with my own site.


In my opionon.... I think the problem with flash intro is that not everybody has flash. They may not be able to see the intro.
So they may go to the site and it will just look unfinished and unprofessional.
Also it takes up time if you have an impulse buyer. The longer they wait to buy...the less likely they will buy.

Also if someone is browsing at work....the flash movie might start making noises and they will click the window off ...so they don't disturb a co-worker..or get caught slacking off...


----------



## roachtown

it gets borin at d nxt search


----------



## jarzium

flash might be fun if im looking for something to look at and entertain by. but i usually hate flash and sites with loud music. totally unnecessary.


----------



## monkeylantern

Flash intros....unless it's a portfolio site....NO!

A little flash sprinkled into a site can work wonders....too much and it's vile.


----------



## Big Plans

It's probably pretty obvious, but it does happen and it bugs me to no end ...if your products have a certain look about them, and your website does not reflect the same kind of image, it would be quite irritating for the customer. example... don't have a death metal style website whilst attempting to sell hip-hop style clothing.


----------



## RAHchills

hanau said:


> anyone able to sites that are laid out and meets most of the citeria that everyone is listing?


I really like the VintageVantage page because they've got a definite theme going on throughout their site and everything is easy to find. I also like the simplicity of the Dusty Brand site, although I think it could be executed better, and am taking some cues from them to develop my own site.


----------



## alltshirts4you

Rodney said:


> 1. people friendly (easy navigation/fast loading/useable in all browsers)
> 
> 2. search engine friendly (basic seo work done)
> 
> 3. as few clicks to the sale as possible (no flash intros, short checkout process)
> 
> 4. accept all payment types
> 
> 5. Have ALL potential questions answered by your website text since you can't be there to answer the customer's question. (how much, what brand, how much is shipping, where do you ship, what is the sizing like, 100% cotton?, what's the company history, phone number, return policy, mailing address, product photos, customer comments, how fast do you ship, printing method, etc, etc etc)


As I see, these are issues to improve existing T-shirts online store. 
And what are the main issues for new site - just opened?
How do you spend $ 1000 for new site to improve it?

(For example, "search engine friendly" is wrong for this case, because Google will provide traffic in 1-2 months only)


----------



## Rodney

> As I see, these are issues to improve existing T-shirts online store.
> And what are the main issues for new site - just opened?
> How do you spend $ 1000 for new site to improve it?


The same issues apply to the creation process, new sites, and existing sites.



> (For example, "search engine friendly" is wrong for this case, because Google will provide traffic in 1-2 months only)


Not exactly. Search engine friendly always applies. From the creation process, to the new site, to the existing site. You can help Google (and other search engines) get the traffic to your site by making sure your pages can be easily crawled by their spider. One way to do this is to use clean or static looking URLs (many shopping carts now offer a search engine friendly mod or upgrade or setting...but many t-shirt site owners don't turn this on for some reason).



> How do you spend $ 1000 for new site to improve it?


Depends on the site. Not all sites have the same needs for improvement. 

It might not take $1000 to improve it. Could be that the $1000 could be better spent on advertising and marketing.


----------



## maryb

skip intro sums it up


----------



## Xenyo

*Re: website*



jdr8271 said:


> 1. Your customer knows exactly what youre selling and how to buy it within ten seconds.
> 2. Clean professional website
> 3. Search Engine Optimization


I think that is great advice and very to the point, however I am very interested to know how people think item 1 is best achieved.

1. Your customer knows exactly what youre selling and how to buy it within ten seconds.

Assuming that we design for a 800x600 res, it really doesnt leav much room for showing much. Do we cram as much of our good designs within the top half of the homepage, put out good photos of our best designs? Use text?

What are people's experiences?

Much appreciated.


----------



## Teeshirtman

It's like having to watch the anti pirate thing before the movie starts on a dvd. I'm gone to another site before its fin. Very rarely are the good


----------



## Rodney

> 1. Your customer knows exactly what youre selling and how to buy it within ten seconds.
> 
> Assuming that we design for a 800x600 res, it really doesnt leav much room for showing much. Do we cram as much of our good designs within the top half of the homepage, put out good photos of our best designs? Use text?


I would say keep your logo/header small, and try to put some of your best products in the top 1/3 of the webpage with maybe a little leader text about what your site is about.

You don't have to cram everything into the top, but it shouldn't be to hard to have an intro and still have a photo/image of one or two of your best designs to draw the user in (the designs should be linked to the product pages for those designs).

Some sites go one step further and make their whole front page just images of their t-shirt designs with links to buy them. That lets the customer know right away that their site is about buying t-shirts and these are the t-shirts we have (ala bustedtees.com)


----------



## dub3325

maryb said:


> skip intro sums it up


Rule of Thumb....

If you have to add an option to skip something.....it's not worth putting up.

Although flash is getting closer to becoming a web standard these days, there are too many sites that don't know how to use it effectively. I love flash, but only use it on request and for presentation projects.

Reason is.....if you are operating an ecommerce site, you want to be able to appeal to the masses. Some machines and connections cant support flash, and that is a potential loss of sales.

Bottom line....don't use flash.


----------



## chuck scott

all great advice, I better go look a my web page and put this to good use.


----------



## teetime

As said before, payment options. You will lose people instantly if they don't see how you propose to seperate them from their hard earned dollars. It was the first thing my buddy told me was missing when he first went to my site.


----------



## hongkongdmz

Do colours make a big difference? Also what about the background? If my designs are based on a militart style then i guess i should have military theme colours and maybe a cool background picture.


----------



## dub3325

hongkongdmz said:


> Do colours make a big difference? Also what about the background? If my designs are based on a militart style then i guess i should have military theme colours and maybe a cool background picture.


Colors and your overall theme are very very important. Certain colors give off certain feelings so you do not want to associate the wrong colors with your theme. If your designs are military based, then it is pretty important that you stay with that theme. If you sold military designs and had a pet shop web theme, then it wouldnt really make much sense now would it.


----------



## bcgd

No flash and IMO no pictures of your kids or pets; as a customer I don't care about either and, again IMO, it doesn't look professional. Save it for Snapfish. No music that blares when the page loads too.


----------



## Rodney

> No music that blares when the page loads too.


Man, I hate that. I've been seeing it a lot lately when reviewing sites. A big annoyance.


----------



## lawaughn

I would disagree about the music. I think it depends on the market your going after.


----------



## Rodney

> I think it depends on the market your going after


I'm not sure. When you're thinking about an ecommerce site selling t-shirts, I don't think auto-playing music benefits the shopping experience at all.

But I have been known to be wrong  

I just found this article that agrees with lawaughn! Looks like I've learned 2 new things today:
http://www.ecommerce-guide.com/news/trends/article.php/3608016



ecommerce-guide.com said:


> On the other hand, "Music is really important — the right music. Music is an extension of their identity. So when we visited sites that had really poor music, like short loops of music that was repetitive, or it didn't match the style of what they're listening to — then they're gone."
> 
> In the view of teens, she says, a bad music track is like, "'Oh, it's adults trying to design for us, and they have no clue.'"


 More here: http://www.ecommerce-guide.com/news/trends/article.php/3608016


So I guess it *does* depend on your market. 

Although I still think it should be optional (ie: you click a play button to start playing the music), but that's just my old fashioned opinion


----------



## monkeylantern

The only market where music doesn't offend on an e-commerce site is the deaf market.


----------



## Solmu

Rodney said:


> I just found this article that agrees with lawaughn


That doesn't say that music is good; just that music is an important issue and that bad music is bad. It doesn't say whether good music is desired or simply tolerated (admittedly toleration is more than I'll ever give it).

I can't be the only one who always has iTunes open when the computer is turned on...


----------



## Rodney

> That doesn't say that music is good; just that music is an important issue


Well, the article is about selling to the teen shopper, and adding music is listed under the "Key Rules", so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that they are saying music is good for that market based on their research 



> Examples of shopping sites that teens rated highly, both for design and ease-of-use, include CCS.com, Dreamhorse, Lacie, LadyEnyce, Pacsun and Wetseal.


Some of those sites that were rated "highly" have music that auto plays.

I know, it blew me away too


----------



## hongkongdmz

Could you have something on the website that promoted others to make their own t-shirts as well and maybe send their designs to you? I was thinking about this when I saw the banners for this site and it'd be a good selling point. Obviously you dont tell them everything but let them know that they can learn and/or come to this community forum Just a thought...


----------



## mberta

Another good thing is to remember to always have your shopping cart and checkout buttons available, and allow people to be able to remove products from their cart, super crucial


----------



## skinnyboo

Really fascinating reading, folks.
I'm truly getting an education here. Of course, no one wants to reinvent the wheel when doing something new, hence my coming here. but I think a certain amount of "doing my own way" has merit as well.
Keep certain key points in mind but don't be afraid to try something new - after all, that's what's going to separate you from the rest of the crowd.


----------



## allan46

I am a new member and am in the early stages of setting up a t-shirt business.This forum has been a godend to me in so many ways.
Thanks to all.Great info.


----------



## skulltshirts

With all the talk about flash being bad, it brings up question of... is flash navagation buttons a bad idea too? I know it can add alot of design to your site, but if some pc's dont support flash, my guess is it can b bad to use? Right? What if you supplied text links towards the end of the page for people who dont have flash supported? (This should be standard anyway, should always have text links at the end)


----------



## Tshirtcrib

Short answer: stay away from flash buttons merely due to the fact that google, yahoo, and MSN spiders cannot read flash, therefore internal links will not be counted, hurting your overall ranking. Something i need to do as well...


----------



## hongkongdmz

I really think a Flash site or a Splash page would be a waste of time..I've been looking at some t-shirt sites with both of the above and the loading time make me want to quit the site. It's better to have an easy to access site focused on your target audience. You need to remember that just because something looks good and costs doesnt mean its going to be popular or usable by everyone else....


----------



## pukashell

Well, a girl that lives in my town has this site which is all Flash...though she doesn't sell anything on it. I was thinking of making my site sorta the same style...is this not an effective site??


----------



## hongkongdmz

Ok the site looks alright....but the text is a little hard to read and I dont like any site that doesnt have any products on display. I'd rather not visit the site to begin with and lose immediate interest in visiting the site again. The style is good and the colours but I dont like the way each word or image flashes when I scroll the mouse on it. It's your choice how you take the criticism but I like your colour scheme and site layout. The loading time is ok but I'd still prefer to enter it without even 1-2 seconds waiting. I want the site experience right away..any time delay for me makes me lose interest. Hope that helps.

Nick

HongKongDMZ


----------



## pukashell

Thanks Nick! Good to know. So people generally could care less if the site looks fancy- they just want you to get to the point. So how's about this site? More effective with viewers?


----------



## Rodney

> Well, a girl that lives in my town has this site which is all Flash...though she doesn't sell anything on it. I was thinking of making my site sorta the same style...is this not an effective site??


If she's not selling anything on the site, then using the same style for a site that IS selling something might not be effective.

As has been stated a few times here, Flash is just not a good idea for an ecommerce website 

It's best to have a site that is easily compatible with all browsers and easily picked up by the search engines (flash and search engines don't mix).

People don't want a fancy site, they want a site that loads fast and works (and gives them the information they were looking for in an easy to access manner).


----------



## Republicofstates

ok... and what do you think about advertising? for example adwords, and bannerexchange...


----------



## alltshirts4you

Republicofstates said:


> ok... and what do you think about advertising? for example adwords, and bannerexchange...


adwords is great - but you should to tweak them correctly.
Bannerexchange - now it is brand promotion than site promotion, IMHO.


----------



## Maize31

Why should you rule out flash intros? T-shirts are apart of a large art forum that both imforms and inpresses. Shopping on line for tees or anywhere for that matter is more about the art and what it say than the quality of the printing. Some flash intros are quite ingenious and can enhance the product that is being sold so I wouldn't rule it out altogether I would just think a little harder about the creativity going into it.


----------



## bcgd

Maize31 said:


> Why should you rule out flash intros? T-shirts are apart of a large art forum that both imforms and inpresses. Shopping on line for tees or anywhere for that matter is more about the art and what it say than the quality of the printing. Some flash intros are quite ingenious and can enhance the product that is being sold so I wouldn't rule it out altogether I would just think a little harder about the creativity going into it.


That's a very good point. Too many people think that just because they have Photoshop or Illustrator or Flash that makes them a designer. Unfortunately more often then not the flash intros are slow and lack any substance. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should".


----------



## Solmu

Maize31 said:


> Why should you rule out flash intros?


Because you don't have long to wow people, because a subset of your customers will hate flash, because another subset of your customers won't have it installed, because another subset will be on dialup and not have the time, etc.



Maize31 said:


> T-shirts are apart of a large art forum that both imforms and inpresses. Shopping on line for tees or anywhere for that matter is more about the art and what it say than the quality of the printing.


Shopping on line for tees is just that: shopping. It's an act of commerce. The usual considerations of selling apply, including quality of the product, marketing, convenience, etc. Good art is only part of that formula, and really it's a much smaller part than some people think.


----------



## bcgd

Here is an AMAZING use of Flash on an apparel site...

http://www.bebopjeans.com

The pace is perfect and it's relevent (IMHO).

Be sure to click on "products"


----------



## Rodney

bcgd said:


> Here is an AMAZING use of Flash on an apparel site...
> 
> http://www.bebopjeans.com
> 
> The pace is perfect and it's relevent (IMHO).
> 
> Be sure to click on "products"



Looks like another example of why you *shouldn't* use a flash on an *ecommerce* site. 

It's also worth noting that this site *isn't* an *ecommerce* site. It's more of a design portfolio site. No sales transactions are made online via this site.

If you have to say "be sure to click on products" instead of having the site take me directly to the products or make it very clear how to get to the products, then I think something's missing 

The TITLE tag on this page is all wrong and everything that they did with the site could all be done more effeciently with regular HTML (and have it accessible to more customers that way).

I'm not anti-flash at all. But there has to be a purpose for it, not just because it's available. I haven't seen a good use of flash in ecommerce yet. For a music site/design portfolio site/games site/etc, flash is perfect.


----------



## Ken Styles

bcgd said:


> Here is an AMAZING use of Flash on an apparel site...
> 
> http://www.bebopjeans.com
> 
> The pace is perfect and it's relevent (IMHO).
> 
> Be sure to click on "products"


Well ....it's pretty

but I almost had a seizure.

Alot going on..and my eyes started to twitch out..


----------



## Buechee

there is too much going on in that site. Flash sites suck. Maybe your front page, but not the whole site. I could not get pass the product page. I didn't even see your products.


----------



## Maize31

This just proves that shopping, whether in a mall, on the streets, magazines, and cyberspace or where ever is just a different experience for everyone. I will admit that most of the time when shopping on line I skip the flash intros unless it is real creative like the site that was just mentioned. Being a man I would never shop at the site but I did thinks it was quite unique and probably very eye catching for most women especially for their use of colors and flowers and the rising sun. I also like the way the products were shown. I can see that idea being used by many trying to sell their wears. One page, click on what looks most interesting for a larger view in the center of the page and than off to do more shopping.


----------



## Buechee

If you wanted jeans for your lady. Would you go to a site for it's well put together flash animation or would you go to a site and you see jeans?


----------



## MotoskinGraphix

You guys kill me...super nice flash site and it did exactly what?....reminded you of butterflys and sweet *** jeans and so what!!!! The whole idea of having e-commerce is to sell product, yours, stock transfers, printing, what have you!!! Lose the egoo, understand profit and loss, go make some money!!!!


----------



## Twinge

Oookay. I've summed up most of the key points made in a big lsit, and added a few of my own =) (Maybe I should've just made a new post? *shrug*)

1. *Accessibility.* You're trying to sell things; the more people that are able to see what you are selling, the better.
While not a set-in-stone list, this generally includes things like:

No Flash: At all. Intro, navigation, or whatever - many people don't have flash installed, and you lose those customers right away if your site doesn't work for them. As a bonus, search engines will like you more without flash.
Works in 800x600 Resolution: Generally, this means visitors will not get a horizontal scrollbar in this resolution. There's still a significant chunk of the Internet using 800x600 (Aproximately 15%).
Loads Well on Dialup: Again, there's still a ton of people out there only on dialup; optimize your images, html, etc. to load faster on dialup.
Broswer Compatability: Make sure that your site loads fine in at least both Firefox and Internet Explorer. Ideally, it should also load well in Safari and Opera as well.

2. *Ease of Use.* This also covers a lot of things, but the idea is the easier people can get the information they are looking for, the more likely they are to buy. Items in this category would include:

No Frames: Frames cause a lot of problems, and there are several superior alternatives available instead of using frames. Again, a bonus is that search engines will like sites without frames better.
Readable: Make sure your background & text colors have enough contrast to be easily readable. Also make sure the text size is large enough. If people can't easily read something, they'll probably go elsewhere.
Aesthetically Pleasing: The color scheme should look good. The colors and layout used should fit with your target market(s) if possible.
Clean & Understandable: Don't overload the customer with too much information right on the front page - they won't know where to go. It should be obvious you are selling t-shirts, and categories and other information should be clear and easy to find. This also means that information - such as sizing, shirt brand, shirt pricing, shipping costs, return policy, etc. is easy and quickly accessible.
Consistency: Your navigation should remain in the same place on every page. Important information and color schemes should remain consistent page to page.
No Music: Not quite a definite, but it is rarely a good idea. While music doesn't make the site harder to use per se, it will: increase loading times, conflict with any music the customer might be listening to, and possibly drive off customers right away. If you do decide to use music, make SURE there is an easy, plainly visible way to turn it off.
Customer Service: Answer questions people ask you quickly and effectively; if you reply a week later, chances are they won't care anymore.

3. *Search Engine Optimization.* I don't think this is as important as the other aspects; if your customers can find you, it doesn't help if they can't use your site! This is something that should be kept in mind throughout the whole process, but not something you should be obsessing about. 

Have a Reason: When adding something to your website related to SEO, ask yourself this question: "If there were no search engines, would I be adding this?" In other words, if there is absolutely no benefit to the customer - don't add it.
No Frames: As mentioned above, search engines don't like frames. Google won't navigate them at all.
No Flash: Search engines cannot navigate flash.

4. *Other Stuff.* Here are a few more things to keep in mind when designing a commerce-based website:

SSL: Have SSL installed for your checkout process. Essential if you handle your own credit card processing; adviseable otherwise.
Payment Types: Some customers like to see your payment options visable on the front page. Also, have multiple payment types available; the more ways people can pay, the more people will be able to.
Large Images: This especially applies to t-shirt sites, of course. You should have some sort of zoomed-in image that really gives you a good view of the design; if people can't see exactly what the design looks like, they probably won't buy it.
Cart Options: Make sure you have a way for customers to easily remove items from their cart if they need to. The shopping cart should also (ideally) be visable from anywhere on the site if they have anything in it.
Update: Don't let your website stagnate; add new t-shirt designs, run sales, etc. Customers and search engines both like a website that changes.
Be Original: Keep these key poitns in mind, but don't be afraid to try something new either - you might make something great =)




Xenyo said:


> Assuming that we design for a 800x600 res, it really doesnt leav much room for showing much. Do we cram as much of our good designs within the top half of the homepage, put out good photos of our best designs? Use text?


One other note for this that wasn't mentioned - you can make your website liquid. A 'liquid' website shifts to fit the browser - so it will fill the whole screen on 800x600 and 1024x768 alike. This is harder to design, but is often ideal if you can do it. ThinkGeek is a good example of this.


----------



## Buechee

You made some very good pionts. I have to ask what are frames? I might know, but called it something else.

Now the 800x600 res is not the same as the page set up, is it?

I use Dreamweaver, how do you make a site liquid?


----------



## farennikov

Buechee said:


> I use Dreamweaver, how do you make a site liquid?


I don't think this is the right forum to ask this. Look for HTML and CSS forums.

But to answer your question, here's a good link: Liquid layouts


----------



## farennikov

Twinge said:


> Oookay. I've summed up most of the key points made in a big lsit, and added a few of my own =) (Maybe I should've just made a new post? *shrug*)


excellent stuff, should be posted as "sticky" thread


----------



## farennikov

bcgd said:


> Here is an AMAZING use of Flash on an apparel site...
> 
> http://www.bebopjeans.com
> 
> The pace is perfect and it's relevent (IMHO).
> 
> Be sure to click on "products"


hey, I saw that Flash site, it looks pretty plain actually, even though it's Flash.

Here's a link to the sickest flash jeans company website: http://www.hemjeans.com/ - check it out


----------



## farennikov

Rodney said:


> It's also worth noting that this site *isn't* an *ecommerce* site. It's more of a design portfolio site. No sales transactions are made online via this site.


My observation is that MOST designer apparel companies (incl. jeans and tshirts) don't sell from the website, and it is just a showroom. Depends on the market I guess. I don't think any of the high end couture vendors sell on-line - they sell in boutiques. 

So NO, it is not necessarily *wrong* to not have ecommerce functionality on the website. But if you don't have one, you better have a lot of brick-and-mortar clients.


----------



## hongkongdmz

The thread that became another forum in itself......very good information though Thanks for all the contributions everyone. 

Nick


----------



## farennikov

Maize31 said:


> Why should you rule out flash intros?


look, if your site is a showroom, then maybe flash intros are ok (*as long as you have a "skip intro" link*). If you are an online retailer then flash intro is not ok, especially if the site does not remember visitor's browser and plays into every time you go the site. 
Generally speaking flash intros are not a great idea because 1) they take longer to load (dial-up visitors can hardboil an egg while intro is loading), 2) they usually don't carry any important information and 3) not functional.


----------



## Twinge

Buechee said:


> You made some very good pionts. I have to ask what are frames? I might know, but called it something else.


Frames are where a page has two seperate webpages (sepeate html files) displayed onscreen at the same time. This is usuaully used for something like a navigation bar on the side or an advertisement on the top.

Frames are bad because they go against the general way the Internet works. You can't easily bookmark individual pages with frames - only the front page. Google won't even browse through frames at all. There are more reasons to not use frames, which can be Googled for if you are interested. SSI is just as easy to use as frames and is a much better alternative; dynamic pages (e.g. php, etc.) can do the job very well too.


----------



## Solmu

Frames are one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time. They were a hobbled together solution based on the limited technology available at the time. Now that web development has come so much further there's no excuse for using them (and very few people do).


----------



## Buechee

Thanks for that clarity on frames. The black shirts know it all, ask them or you could ask the guy in the blue shirt, he knows a lot as well, lol.


----------



## queerrep

Buechee said:


> The black shirts know it all, ask them or you could ask the guy in the blue shirt, he knows a lot as well, lol.


Hey, don't forget the cute guy in the brown shirt.


----------



## Buechee

rlfreshwater said:


> Hey, don't forget the cute guy in the brown shirt.


Can't forget Lou, he taught me how to press. His video was all I needed to press. From there it was just getting the time and temp right.

Much love to this forum.


----------



## Parlophone

*die flash die*

the bebopjeans and hemjeans websites SUCK. flash is only effective when the user cannot tell it's flash. all other flash sucks period.


----------



## forfeitclothing

I think flash intro's make a site look more profesional, which increases the trust I have in a website. But I only like flash intro's in a corner for a logo, not the entire webpage, because I am to busy to watch a movie before i get to the actual website, I think it's ok to have them, just dont make it to long. and definatly make it bipassable (is that even a word)


----------



## Rodney

> I think flash intro's make a site look more profesional, which increases the trust I have in a website.



I actually have the opposite reaction with a flash intro. I always feel like it was an unprofessional designer that put the site up and I don't think I've ever made a purchase from a site with a flash intro.

Look at the places that are big: amazon, google, threadless, oddica...large professional sites where people are spending thousands of dollars per day don't use flash intros.


----------



## oddica

> amazon, google, threadless, oddica

i just spit up a bit. Which one of these companies doesn't belong? 
We are still small, with only 5300 registered users. 
(threadless last I read was 450,000 and growing
2 percent a month) Happy customers, quality product, but we are
not yet a blip on the radar.  

that said, I appreciate that you are a fan of what we are doing.

sorry to derail an intriguing thread, carry on


----------



## Rodney

> i just spit up a bit. Which one of these companies doesn't belong?


LOL, so maybe I stretched it a bit.

But your production and delivery (not to mention the lack of a splash page) give you the _appearance_ of a much bigger company


----------



## oddica

i agree with Rodney on the Flash Intro ... I'm not a web guy,
but I occasionally pay attention to the discussion at sites like YayHooray, 
Newstoday, k10k, CPLuv, etc. And when someone has a flash intro, 
they typically get laughed back to the year 2000, back to when 2Advanced
was the happening web site.


----------



## oddica

> LOL, so maybe I stretched it a bit.

fair enough


----------



## Solmu

Rodney said:


> I don't think I've ever made a purchase from a site with a flash intro.


Technically you have: Threadless have used them from time to time (e.g. during the _hoodies hoodies hoodies ha ha ha ha_ hell week). Although you may not have made a purchase when they had those up, and they weren't _just_ flash intros (that is, the flash intro loaded into the middle of their normal homepage, with other links to products being a minimal number of clicks away).

One more for the road: flash intros suck


----------



## Rodney

Solmu said:


> Technically you have: Threadless have used them from time to time (e.g. during the _hoodies hoodies hoodies ha ha ha ha_ hell week). Although you may not have made a purchase when they had those up, and they weren't _just_ flash intros (that is, the flash intro loaded into the middle of their normal homepage, with other links to products being a minimal number of clicks away).
> 
> One more for the road: flash intros suck


Since the flash was in their homepage with the rest of the shopping information, I didn't classify that as a flash "intro"


----------



## Buechee

I think flash is only good on a all flash site, like in games.


----------



## forfeitclothing

Im trying to understand "Frames" And why they are bad.. so let me get this straight

a navigation bar is a frame, but another tip was to keep navigation easy. So if your nav. bar goes from page to page so you can go to any part of the website easier, why is this bad?

Maybe i have the wrong idea about all of this, can someone give me a "Do, and dont" or an example of a frame or a bad + good frame or something.

But im in the process of writing up a website guide for my designer, and This is sooo helpfull. Most of it applies to the pro. myspace i am creating as well. Except the music, Myspace and music are just going to be like that, And i only do it for my bands that I sponsor!


----------



## Solmu

forfeitclothing said:


> Im trying to understand "Frames" And why they are bad..


Frames are so out of date, it's possible they were before your time - you may simply have not seen them, or seen them enough to take notice. You don't see them around much anymore.

You can read a Wikipedia article on them here... I'm trying (and failing) to come up with a site I could link to for an example, but no major sites use them that I know of.

This google search is probably your best bet.


----------



## TripleT

Flash intros take too long to load and they are sleeping pills


----------



## Twinge

Solmu said:


> This google search is probably your best bet.



The second result there (or first of 'why frames suck') is a good overview. They can't be navigated or bookmarked correctly and they can cause other hassles and problems as well. In short, they offer you nothing that you can't do another way - better and just as easy (or easier). 

A simple example of this is using SSI (Server Side Includes). With this, you can reproduce the one advantage of frames - only having to edit a single file to change an element of multiple pages - without the downside. Basically, you'd have, for example, one file containing all the navigation menu code. Each other page references this one file (Google SSI for details - it's really simple). If you need to add a new option in your navigation, you simply edit this one file and you're good to go for every page.


----------



## TomandBunny

Honestly I can care less if frames are so out of date, I use them because people always tell me they hate sites that don't have them because they feel my out of date frames site is faster and easier to navigate then joe blow over there.

I read every post and while reading I had to put my mindset into everyone is just giving their opinion for themselves and while valuable, will it work for my instance?

I figure that by reading more why people were saying the things they were saying vs just saying how it should be I came to understand the mindsets a little more.

I agree with allot of people, flash is useless, it looks pretty but people are not there to watch a movie, unless maybe if you give them an option to watch it or not! say a link that says "See our Ad or Commercial" I have been known to click those, but being forced to watch flash I look straight for the skip intro link or if none exist I leave the site!

Shipping, Tax and all those other "Hidden" cost I too hate those with a passion, so on my site I made everything a What you see is what you pay period! if I am charging 20 bucks, that includes shipping, handling, Tax and credit card fees! everything. so far I am getting good reviews on that.

payments/Shopping carts. we have on any screen your looking at our merchandise a way to add it to your shopping cart. we do this because we don't want to have someone go back to the original screen to purchase something for when they took the time to enlarge the image to get a better look we want them to buy on impulse right there on the spot.

We also do vinyl cutting for stickers and for one off shirts. we have now on all orders off the site, we wait 1 week and we mail them a surprise decal for their car! this really has shocked people and has made them not only ask us for our cards to give people but they now come to our site to buy more shirts! we could send the decal in the same package as others have suggested, but we thought that unexpected envelope a week or so later with a nice thank you letter and a cool decal for their car window just makes a bit more difference.

I really can't think of much more but hope this helps anyone and I would like to thank everyone who took the time to not just say what should be done but the time to explain why as that was more valuable then just the 5 quick reasons without the story behind it.


----------



## Rodney

> Honestly I can care less if frames are so out of date, I use them because people always tell me they hate sites that don't have them because they feel my out of date frames site is faster and easier to navigate then joe blow over there.


It really depends on what people are comparing your site to.

There's no real reason why your site should be faster than a site without frames or easier to navigate than a properly designed site without frames.

If your navigation is in the same spot on every page of your site and is very consistent, then it should be easy to navigate with or without frames.

I can honestly say that in 11+ years of designing websites and talking to customers, web surfers and clients, I've never heard someone say they hate sites that don't have frames. That's the first time I've ever heard anything like that


----------



## TomandBunny

Rodney said:


> I can honestly say that in 11+ years of designing websites and talking to customers, web surfers and clients, I've never heard someone say they hate sites that don't have frames. That's the first time I've ever heard anything like that


Let me say it this way, they like how easy my site is to navigate! good enough for me! therefore I see no reason to change my layout. 

they say it is faster because my sites are easy to find everything quickly without having to look for it.

I see it being faster myself because personally I have seen sites where all the information is in the same place as it should, but everything has to load every time you click a page whereas on my frames site only the main window changes and nothing else.

I know your going to comeback with something else, let me save you the time, it works for me and is easy for my customers and I have not suffered any with my layout so I personally do not plan to change from the frames layout anytime soon and I get allot of compliments from people and those are the ones I am out to impress.

Just because you have not personally heard something doesn't really justify that it hasn't been said to me!

11+ years, Wow, impressive. that will make me sleep better tonight .


----------



## toastynhere

Design, ease of use and up front pricing are crucial for me. 

The last thing I've really been paying attention to is what sort of payment options do they offer. I've had some crazy situations lately with Paypal and steer away from doing business with sites that offer it. 

just my 2 cents

kevin


----------



## TomandBunny

Oh, lemme point out. I don't like sites that want me to create an account to buy one shirt. I have been on five sites now that when you go to pay it requires you to create a profile. I just click the close button on my browser. to me that is a pain and I see no need for it.


----------



## Rodney

> Let me say it this way, they like how easy my site is to navigate! good enough for me! therefore I see no reason to change my layout.


Nobody asked you to change your layout  They just commented how frames aren't the most useable ways to make a site easy to navigate.

Of course it's your site to do as you please...if it works for you, then there's obviously nothing you need to fix. I'm not sure where you felt that people were trying to change you or your site?



> they say it is faster because my sites are easy to find everything quickly without having to look for it.


That should definitely be a primary focus for anybody creating a website. Frames or no frames, the navigation should be consistent and easy to find.



> I see it being faster myself because personally I have seen sites where all the information is in the same place as it should, but everything has to load every time you click a page whereas on my frames site only the main window changes and nothing else.


I can see how that would seem faster. But the navigation elements only add a few kb at most to the page reload, so it really shouldn't be _that _much faster 



> I know your going to comeback with something else, let me save you the time, it works for me and is easy for my customers and I have not suffered any with my layout so I personally do not plan to change from the frames layout anytime soon and I get allot of compliments from people and those are the ones I am out to impress.


Nobody asked you to change. Not sure why you feel someone is trying to change your mind on something. People are sharing their best practice tips that they've learned. It's up to anybody reading to decide whether or not to implement the tips on their sites. Nobody's forcing you to do anything 

If you've got compliments on the site, that's great! No complaints about the site is nice too (although that could mean a new customer left in frustration without taking the time to comment, but that could also mean that the way you implemented your frames is very user friendly).



> Just because you have not personally heard something doesn't really justify that it hasn't been said to me!


I never said that it hadn't been said to you. I said it was the first time I had heard anything like that. It wasn't doubting you... I have no idea what your customers say to you. Just commenting that it was the first time I had heard of a web surfer complain that other sites _didn't_ have frames.

Even after 11+ years of doing this, I learn new things all the time. That was my new thing learned for today


----------



## TimeWithoutTheE

i tihnk the best thing to do is go on a competitors site and look at what they are doing. Would you buy the shirt? is it easy payment accessability? is there many kinds of payments accepted?
ask yourself what do YOU want as a customer
odds are if you want certain things out of a site then most people will want the same


----------



## Solmu

TomandBunny said:


> I have not suffered any with my layout


Cool. What kind of tests did you do to establish this? It's always so hard to know if you're missing out on sales from doing something stupid or if everything is just dandy, so your experience might be able to help others who are facing the same problem.


----------



## TomandBunny

Solmu said:


> Cool. What kind of tests did you do to establish this? It's always so hard to know if you're missing out on sales from doing something stupid or if everything is just dandy, so your experience might be able to help others who are facing the same problem.


The only real test I did was give some sites to just ordinary folks who are not computer savvy and asked them some questions and to rate some sites, I did this with both people I know (yup I am aware they will tell me what they think I want to hear) but honestly these friends are brutally honest with me, but a few are students and I asked them to take it to their classes and get opinions..

I don't want to mention the sites because I don't feel that would be nice and I will just say I selected sites that you all know or if not you have seen their shirts out somewhere and some in very well known stores in every mall in america, but I asked them to rate the following on each site.

Of all the sites, what did you find the best of the following.
1. Layout
2. Merchandise
3. ease of use
4. finding what your looking for
5. graphic design (did graphics play a role in you staying longer)
6. graphic design (what site did you like the best)
7. Domain Name (in order of the names, which did they like the best to worst)
8. Tell me anything I missed asking you

Inside the site, what did they feel about
Cost?
Shipping and Handling?
Time frame? (some sites claim to need 2 to 3 weeks to ship)
Return policy (I don't fully have one yet but I wanted to know who's they liked the best to model after)

any suggestions.

Right now I am still in the process of building my site, and I am making quite of few sales without really any promotions and mostly just word of mouth! the biggest suggestion was photos of people actually wearing my stuff! I agree fully with that 100% Now I have been on the hunt for models. I already have a few hotties for the ladies apparel section, I have a few buff guys for the mens section and for the toddler section I now have a kid with a Mohawk (2 years old) and for the girls I have the typical girl next door with glasses look. I am in the process of finding an infant and I already have the photo shoot lined up! cool thing is, all the models are going to do the photos for me cost free just to be on the site  that is so awesome.

We also came up with a slogan that has been turning heads. and now we are putting it on everything! after our website name we have a huge

WARNING: OUR SHIRTS MIGHT OFFEND YOU! 

once we added that people just couldn't stay away and had to come look for themselves!

So no I don't have technical or scientific data to support that I am not suffering, the only thing is my sales keep going up and to me that is a good sign of what is working or not!

and just so everyone knows, I rated poorly on the graphic design of my site because basically I have no graphics for the layout as personally I didn't want to take away from the shirt slogans.

The older people Love my domain name over others, the younger people think my domain is out of date. but when asked for them to come up with a cool domain name they liked they couldn't or if they did it was already taken! so theres a ying and yang to that one!

and just so everyone knows! I am using Paypal as my payment source! it was quick and easy and for someone who doesn't program at all let alone yup and I use Front page to do my site it works LOL


----------



## Twinge

TomandBunny said:


> Oh, lemme point out. I don't like sites that want me to create an account to buy one shirt. I have been on five sites now that when you go to pay it requires you to create a profile. I just click the close button on my browser. to me that is a pain and I see no need for it.



This I've never really understood, personally - though you certainly aren't the only person I've heard this from. You HAVE to give basically all the same information for shipping & billing - Name, Address, Phone, email, etc. What exactly is the difference you're seeing here? Would a checkbox to optionally NOT save your account info be enough, or are you looking for something else?




TomandBunny said:


> Let me say it this way, they like how easy my site is to navigate! good enough for me! therefore I see no reason to change my layout.
> 
> they say it is faster because my sites are easy to find everything quickly without having to look for it.



And this has almost NOTHING to do with frames. A site can look nearly identical with or without frames -- like the example I gave above, you can use SSI just as effectively and the site will still look the same (likely, slightly better) and navigate the same.




TomandBunny said:


> I see it being faster myself because personally I have seen sites where all the information is in the same place as it should, but everything has to load every time you click a page whereas on my frames site only the main window changes and nothing else.



This is technically true, but almost all of your cotent (and the majority of the load time) will be IN that main page anyway. As Rodney said above, the face that you don't have to reload the frame is a very, very small peice of the loading time pie -- though, to be fair, it IS an advantage of frames I'd overlooked. In general you're talking maybe 1-2 seconds of loading time on dialup saved at the most, and no time on broadband.




TomandBunny said:


> I know your going to comeback with something else, let me save you the time, it works for me and is easy for my customers and I have not suffered any with my layout so I personally do not plan to change from the frames layout anytime soon and I get allot of compliments from people and those are the ones I am out to impress.



Well, the problem here is, people don't usually complain when they hit something that doesn't work for them or they don't like. Think about it -- if you're browsing some random website and something is broken on it, are you going to spend extra time contacting the author pointing out the problem - or are you just going to leave? Most people fall in the latter.

Also, I bet you HAVE suffered a bit by using frames (NOT your layout -- remember, other methods can make the SAME layout). I refer to what is probably the biggest reason not to use frames, which escaped my mind in my earlier post: search engines. Google does NOT navigate through frames; this means that Google will only see your front page and won't be able to spider into all of your subpages. This tends to make it very difficult to get a good search engine ranking.


Now, to be fair in response to Rondey's post - I AM trying to change your mind, I admit that =) I just think in the long run changing your site to not use any frames will work much better for you. 

It most likely wouldn't take much work to convert it into SSI, and it will still look the same (or very similar), be linkable (in a frames site, if someone wants to link a specific shirt -- they can't) and bookmarkable (same), and search engines will be able to navigate it. 

Basically, I really think the very small amount of advantage of keeping frames (you wouldn't have to change anything if you left it as is, and it loads very slightly faster) is heavily outweighed by the advantages of changing away from frames (listed above).


----------



## Rodney

> This I've never really understood, personally - though you certainly aren't the only person I've heard this from. You HAVE to give basically all the same information for shipping & billing - Name, Address, Phone, email, etc. What exactly is the difference you're seeing here? Would a checkbox to optionally NOT save your account info be enough, or are you looking for something else?


I'm with TomandBunny on this one as well. 

For me it's a matter of privacy  I don't need my private contact information saved on a site that I'll probably never shop at again.

Most of the time, the sites that ask you to save your private information don't give you any contact information. So they want me to save my name and address on a site that can't even post a business phone number or mailing address for customers to view?

If I'm trying to make an impulse purchase of a cool design, there's nothing that turns me off more than being asked to save my information or create an account. For a $15-$20 purchase, it's just an extra step that I don't need.

Now at amazon it's different, because they are a large trusted retailer and I'll most likely be buying from them again soon.

But joe schmoe t-shirt company with X funny design doesn't need to save my private information. I've ran into too many of them that think that just because I bought something from them once, means I want to get all sorts of emails about new products, business schemes, etc (no, I didn't check a newsletter box...thank you )


----------



## TomandBunny

Rodney said:


> Now at amazon it's different, because they are a large trusted retailer and I'll most likely be buying from them again soon.


Good point, actually I didn't think of Amazon as I did fill out the information there but I actually go to Amazon to buy the used books dirt cheap so I figured that was worth the hassle LOL

But I don't know these guys from adam and half the time I just put passwords and login names I will never remember because I really don't want them having any information on me.

Worse is the sites that want to verify by emailing you a code or a link that you must click or enter before you can complete your purchase???

I just want a quicky wham bam enter my credit card on a secure trusted credit card company website and address and get my stuff!


----------



## T-BOT

..yeah. 


just like going to Radio Shack to buy a couple of batteries and need to fill out a cashout-form a mile long.   


;


----------



## oddica

TomandBunny, do you have an example of some sites that
do NOT ask you to Create Account, yet still accept standard
Visa and Mastercard?


----------



## MotoskinGraphix

oddica said:


> TomandBunny, do you have an example of some sites that
> do NOT ask you to Create Account, yet still accept standard
> Visa and Mastercard?


 Most of the independants I guess. I think sites that want an account established are using it for spam in the future dont you agree?


----------



## Solmu

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Most of the independants I guess. I think sites that want an account established are using it for spam in the future dont you agree?


I definitely don't agree. It's the default install for packages like osCommerce and ZenCart, so for a lot of smaller online retailers it's just the way their sites are setup if they don't know how to change it. The fact that it *is* the default is stupid, but it's the coders fault, not the users.


----------



## Twinge

Solmu said:


> I definitely don't agree. It's the default install for packages like osCommerce and ZenCart, so for a lot of smaller online retailers it's just the way their sites are setup if they don't know how to change it. The fact that it *is* the default is stupid, but it's the coders fault, not the users.



Exactly. 

Hmmm, the only actual additional info you have to enter is a password (or psosibly a login too, though Zen Cart just uses the email). I can't think of any easy way to have a no account option, though - save a checkbox asking if they would like their information not to be stored. Do you think this would be enough for you Rodney/Tomand, or is the fact that it's still defaulting to account creation still too much?


----------



## TomandBunny

oddica said:


> TomandBunny, do you have an example of some sites that
> do NOT ask you to Create Account, yet still accept standard
> Visa and Mastercard?


My site does not ask you to create an account and still accepts standard mastercard and visa.


----------



## Rodney

> TomandBunny, do you have an example of some sites that
> do NOT ask you to Create Account, yet still accept standard
> Visa and Mastercard?


I think many sites offer it as an option. For example, manifestworldwide.com has it as an option (create an account or checkout without one).

Others include 80stees.com, bustedtees.com, nerdyshirts.com, etc.


----------



## Rodney

> I can't think of any easy way to have a no account option, though - save a checkbox asking if they would like their information not to be stored. Do you think this would be enough for you Rodney/Tomand, or is the fact that it's still defaulting to account creation still too much?


I guess it's not too much about giving extra information (like a username/password), but more about having your private information stored by a company that you have no reason to trust.

Going to an account creation screen by default is a turnoff. For example, places like cafepress moved the account creation stuff to the checkout page AFTER you've entered your shipping/billing information (on the same page). That way you can decide for yourself whether it's worth it at that point.

For smaller stores, I hate going from the shopping cart to a "create an account with us" screen. I don't know if the reaction is the same or different for someone that is new to shopping online.



> I can't think of any easy way to have a no account option, though


Here's one way with Zen Cart (most free carts have some type of add on contributed by the community that allows for checkout without an account): Contribution:Integrated Checkout Without Account - Zen Cart(tm) Wiki



> save a checkbox asking if they would like their information not to be stored.


If I have to choose a username and password, then I'm going to assume that my information is going to be stored, even if I click a checkbox. I would think why else are they asking for a username/password.


----------



## oddica

Objections

1. Hassle

It looks like the Non Create-Account Tee sites have the same
amount of work as any other site. And you have to do it every time
you visit. Can you check order history? Tracking? Stay updated on the 
new tees? Not sure.

2. Privacy

You are giving your information out. Whether it's stored on a computer
or not, they have your information, whether you create an account
or not. So I don't understand the privacy concern: THEY HAVE YOUR INFORMATION ALREADY 

3. Unwanted contact

Opt-out from any future mass emails?

4. Build a long-term customer/company relationship

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, you might do such a good
job that people want to buy from you again, and hear what
you are up to.

If there's no TRUST, no dialogue, then what? You have two ships passing in the night.

http://www.agency26.com/The_Brand_Gap.pdf


----------



## oddica

TomandBunny, can you share your URL?


----------



## Rodney

> You are giving your information out. Whether it's stored on a computer
> or not, they have your information, whether you create an account
> or not. So I don't understand the privacy concern: THEY HAVE YOUR INFORMATION ALREADY


Just because they have my information doesn't mean I want them to store it in their database on their servers 

By not storing my information, they can just use it to ship out the t-shirt and discard it. They don't need to save it or create an extra step for me to create a user account.

The thing is, even if you convince me, you're not convincing your potential customers who aren't reading this compelling argument for saving data. They just are annoyed and may leave without purchasing. Something to consider 



> Opt-out from any future mass emails?


That doesn't work always. As I mentioned above, I've opted out (by never opting in), but some companies think that just because I ordered from them, I want to hear about every offer they may have about any related or non related business.

By storing my information, it gives them easier access to use it later on if they have a new brilliant marketing idea that they want to share.



> 4. Build a long-term customer/company relationship
> 
> Do you think that maybe, just maybe, you might do such a good
> job that people want to buy from you again, and hear what
> you are up to.


Yes, your company does that fine. But many don't. And those are the ones I don't want saving my information or asking me to create a user account.



> If there's no TRUST, no dialogue, then what? You have two ships passing in the night.


Right...that's exactly how many people prefer their online purchase  I'll give you the money for this purchase, you send it to me, and don't bother me anymore 

Of course, that's not the case for all companies or all purchases. Some companies do a good job of building trust, so I don't mind sharing my information.

But trust is definitely a two-way street.

The sites that ask you for your personal information, ask you to create an account, but then don't share their own business information (phone number, mailing address, etc) and just want to list an email address or contact form on the site are trying to GET more than they GIVE. That's not a good way to start any relationship


----------



## Rodney

oddica said:


> TomandBunny, can you share your URL?


Since we have some rules on self promotion, he can't really post it in this thread.

But you could contact him via Private Message to ask to see his URL or if he wanted feedback on his site, he could post it in the Site Reviews section of the forum.

Usually, members who want to share their URLs have it posted in their forum signature or in their profile so you can visit it by clicking on their username.


----------



## TomandBunny

Rodney said:


> Usually, members who want to share their URLs have it posted in their forum signature or in their profile so you can visit it by clicking on their username.


I was wondering where the user settings were! LOL

Remember, I don't do websites for a living and I use (Gasp) Frontpage as it is easy for me to do it with and works for me just fine.


----------



## Rodney

> I was wondering where the user settings were! LOL


Yep, all the forum navigation is down the left hand side of the site. The "Your Control Panel" link will take you to all kinds of cool settings


----------



## oddica

I guess I'm surprised that people who are cruising T-shirt sites would
get offended or upset when they are asked to create an account.

but you learn something odd every day, eh?  


surveying the people here:

if you are giving Best-Practice Tips to someone building a new e-commerce T-shirt website ... do you

1) tell them to omit the Create Account option?

2) tell them to include the Create Account option?

Assuming they are selling standard phrase- or art-related tees.


I'd suggest (2) ... imho, the pros outweigh the cons.


----------



## TomandBunny

oddica said:


> surveying the people here:
> 
> if you are giving Best-Practice Tips to someone building a new e-commerce T-shirt website ... do you
> 
> 1) tell them to omit the Create Account option?
> 
> 2) tell them to include the Create Account option?
> 
> Assuming they are selling standard phrase- or art-related tees.


on the whole account creation thing, I am only assuming you have it and it has touched a nerve with you, don't get me wrong, run your site the way you feel you should run it and just because I feel a specific way doesn't carry any weight at all. just as I said in previous post, I will run my site the way I deem fit and nobody will argue their views enough to change my way of doing things if I feel it is working for me.

My big thing I guess is I worked with a programmer who made everything in his code so difficult for people to use, no matter what we did, he wanted to protect his code or source so much that it was like pulling teeth to buy anything and I couldn't change him on that and it directly effected me because it was my sites he was coding.

so creating the whole account thing just reminds me of all that and it annoys me to no end is all. also, your correct, at check out you need to put pretty much everything there anyway

Name
Email Address
Shipping Address
Billing Address

To create an account you add in a username (good sites will use your email address) and a password.

Then add in the security question, do you want to receive the newsletter or sales etc...

This are good but again more steps have been added.

Then there are my programmer friends! they want to Confirm everything! so before you can actually pay, they want the site to email you a confirmation to make sure the email you gave actually is a real email address

and to make a final closure on all of this, you can not on most sites find out what the total with shipping is going to be until you create the account! all I wanted to know was what the total was going to be!

Like Ebay, how many times do you see where a shirt cost 12.99 but the shipping is 15.00!

I am just curious sometimes as to what I will be paying before I decided to go through all of that.

Now maybe, just maybe if I can get all the information and I am actually ready to plop down my credit card information and buy something, I know exactly what the Shipping, handling, Tax and whatever else, I might fill in the account information! But honestly if I need to do that before I buy I won't do it. too much trouble.

and that is one of the main reasons I came up with a What you see as a price is what you pay period mentality for my site.


----------



## Solmu

oddica said:


> I guess I'm surprised that people who are cruising T-shirt sites would get offended or upset when they are asked to create an account.


I think offended and upset are both way too strong, but I agree with Rodney that I don't like it. Sometimes things like shipping rates are hiding behind that account creation, and you should never put anything between me and my shipping rates 



oddica said:


> if you are giving Best-Practice Tips to someone building a new e-commerce T-shirt website ... do you
> 
> 1) tell them to omit the Create Account option?
> 
> 2) tell them to include the Create Account option?


Create account *option*, yes. Create account _*requirement*_, no.


----------



## ieaturheart

ok so i just read 9 pages. dont really know what to say. 


but some of you talked about flash for like 5 pages, lol. does anyone see anything wrong with this website. i mean it has music, and made in flash. but see i think it all depends on your market. for me it is a really sweet website and makes me want to go back. 

also look at the shirts and models they have. definately it appeals to a whole different style of people and teenagers. i think it is an awesome website although it is missing/and has what many people believe are bad, ie flash, no prices up front, music. 

idk but this is a website that is what im looking for when trying to find web designers to make my company a website. and wow web designers are not cheap like super super expensive, but i guess it is kind of price and demand. 

anyway here is some websites that i have bought clothes from. 

drop dead (the website i was refering to above)

bleeding star

rockett

no offense but i have a feeling most of you will hate this sites and believe they are not effective at capturing the customer and risk losing customers, but i have mixed emotions because i see how, mostly, all points made on this thread made sense. but then at the same time i know these are the 'big'/'popular' companies in the emo/scene/punk clothing arena. 


-austin


----------



## oddica

no nerves touched, I just thought some of the compelling reasons NOT
to have account creation were not 100 percent valid.

different strokes for different folks, i can dig it.


----------



## Rodney

oddica said:


> I guess I'm surprised that people who are cruising T-shirt sites would
> get offended or upset when they are asked to create an account.
> 
> but you learn something odd every day, eh?
> 
> 
> surveying the people here:
> 
> if you are giving Best-Practice Tips to someone building a new e-commerce T-shirt website ... do you
> 
> 1) tell them to omit the Create Account option?
> 
> 2) tell them to include the Create Account option?
> 
> Assuming they are selling standard phrase- or art-related tees.
> 
> 
> I'd suggest (2) ... imho, the pros outweigh the cons.


My advice to someone building an ecommerce website from scratch would be to leave the account creation as an OPTION but allow for a customer to checkout WITHOUT it if they choose 

If you are brand new, you have a lot of trust to establish in a customer. That's another best practice in and of itself (making your website "trustworthy").

But by allowing it as an OPTION, you give customers the choice. They can still purchase from you if they are averse to creating an account, and the ones that you have earned their trust would have the OPTION to create an account.

For me, it's all about options


----------



## TiddliBoom.com

Rodney said:


> My advice to someone building an ecommerce website from scratch would be to leave the account creation as an OPTION but allow for a customer to checkout WITHOUT it if they choose


Can't agree more. In fact, I think having obligatory registering is competely senseless. I remember a couple of years ago, I spent two weeks full time tweaking and bending Zencart into the shape I wanted for a client, only to find out that it had this immensely inane "feature" built-in, and no way to avoid unless you hacked the cart.

So I built my own cart for him instead.

I wonder how many would be happy to register at the pub before buying a beer or in the grocery store for a pack of cigarettes..... 3 out of 10,000?


----------



## TomandBunny

Rodney said:


> M
> If you are brand new, you have a lot of trust to establish in a customer. That's another best practice in and of itself (making your website "trustworthy").


Excellent point and I like this one the best so far.


----------



## Solmu

oddica said:


> I just thought some of the compelling reasons NOT to have account creation were not 100 percent valid.


If I actually _notice_ that a site has account creation, it's usually because there's some vital piece of information hidden behind it that shouldn't be, which is the real issue for me.

I can think of one eComms site I've spent about $2000 at I'd be quite annoyed at for _not_ having an account feature I could use to look at past orders. On the other hand you need to have an account to see the shipping charges, which pisses me off.

Amazon.com's account system is total crap. I have an old account I want access to, I have no idea what the password is, and it won't give it to me. Why? Because I don't know the last four digits of the credit card number I used to place an order on there in about 1998 (and in the meanwhile there was an active wishlist on it).

So in my case it's not that I'm opposed to accounts (although on small sites I prefer not to have them), so much as I'm opposed to _badly setup_ accounts.


----------



## Twinge

Rodney said:


> I guess it's not too much about giving extra information (like a username/password), but more about having your private information stored by a company that you have no reason to trust.
> 
> Going to an account creation screen by default is a turnoff. For example, places like cafepress moved the account creation stuff to the checkout page AFTER you've entered your shipping/billing information (on the same page). That way you can decide for yourself whether it's worth it at that point.



I can see that.




Rodney said:


> If I have to choose a username and password, then I'm going to assume that my information is going to be stored, even if I click a checkbox. I would think why else are they asking for a username/password.



Yeah, and it probably would be - just have to manually delete it  It was definitely a cop-out solution, but I wasn't able to think of anything I could directly do offhand to fix it --




Rodney said:


> Here's one way with Zen Cart (most free carts have some type of add on contributed by the community that allows for checkout without an account): Contribution:Integrated Checkout Without Account - Zen Cart(tm) Wiki



But that might work. I didn't think of the obvious check for Zen Cart mods relating to the subject. I'll have to add that one to my massive list of things to change when I eventually get around to recreating my site.




Rodney said:


> That doesn't work always. As I mentioned above, I've opted out (by never opting in), but some companies think that just because I ordered from them, I want to hear about every offer they may have about any related or non related business.
> 
> By storing my information, it gives them easier access to use it later on if they have a new brilliant marketing idea that they want to share.



Of course, legally there should be an easy way to opt-out, so even if they DO send you an email message, you shouldn't get more than 1 if you don't want to. Obviously not everyone actually does this, though.




oddica said:


> I guess I'm surprised that people who are cruising T-shirt sites would
> get offended or upset when they are asked to create an account.
> 
> but you learn something odd every day, eh?



I would wager that it is definitely a minority that really considers this an issue. I personally don't care. HOWEVER, it is one thing a person should consider when making their site - just like making it compatible for 800x600 resolutions. Just because less than 15% of people are using that resolution doesn't mean you should ignore it -- that's 15% more potential customers. Same deal with the 'no account' people.




oddica said:


> if you are giving Best-Practice Tips to someone building a new e-commerce T-shirt website ... do you
> 
> 1) tell them to omit the Create Account option?
> 
> 2) tell them to include the Create Account option?
> 
> I'd suggest (2) ... imho, the pros outweigh the cons.



(To reiterate what's been said) Well sure, have it -- as an OPTION. That is ideal. You CAN make an account, but you don't have to.




TomandBunny said:


> as I said in previous post, I will run my site the way I deem fit and nobody will argue their views enough to change my way of doing things if I feel it is working for me.



Grrraaahhh Frames! Booga booga!

(Hehe. Did you even read my final, lengthy post on the subject btw? Might've lost it in the previous page and all... I think I DID raise some very valid points... ;O)




TomandBunny said:


> Then there are my programmer friends! they want to Confirm everything! so before you can actually pay, they want the site to email you a confirmation to make sure the email you gave actually is a real email address



That's just foolish. A good idea for a forum, sure - but not for an IMPULSE buy! Customers get tired after jumping too many hurdles.




ieaturheart said:


> idk but this is a website that is what im looking for when trying to find web designers to make my company a website. and wow web designers are not cheap like super super expensive, but i guess it is kind of price and demand.



The ones that make fancy flash sites like that which suck for your customers are also usually more expensive 

And for the record, I'd never buy something off a site like the I <3 Drop Dead one. Once it finally loaded the actual site over the gawdy & unprofessional wheel of fortune background, it started blasting choppy music interrupting what I was already listening too, and then the page wouldn't even close for about half a minute


----------



## ieaturheart

thanks for the advise, maybe i will just go with something not as fancy. and more on the lines of the rockett clothing one. with a neat little enter page then the goods. 


-austin


----------



## Twinge

ieaturheart said:


> thanks for the advise, maybe i will just go with something not as fancy. and more on the lines of the rockett clothing one. with a neat little enter page then the goods.



Well, I wouldn't really recommend this either - splash/intro pages, even if they aren't flash, aren't usually a good thing. Generally speaking, this adds one extra click, and the fewer clicks from start to checkout the better.


----------



## JerryLambert

This is a huge thread, so I hope I'm not repeating someone.

1. Find your creative zone. It's hard to think when you are trying too hard. 
2. Offer variety. I know most people stick with 1 topic, but variety brings shoppers back.
3. Be topical. Watch the news and see what people are saying,this inspires designs. I need to implement this rule more often myself.
4. Keywords and meta-tags. SEO. Change or move you content frequently and use lot's of text. Spiders love text.
5. Advertise. Get banners out on top sites, create a blog , buy business cards, put a mailing list on your site , put a siggy in your email and if you have the extra cash, buy advertising. I find banner exchanges don't work very well, but you can try them.

Jerry


----------



## myronallis

I would suggest these five things.

1. Assume the customer is stupid.
- Everything must be clear and to the point.

2. A picture can say a 1,000 words.
- Having pictures WILL sell your product. Not your discription.

3. Mulitply ways to access the same information.
- Don't force them to go back to your home page to get to different page.

4. Establishing Value
- If you are asking them for a hundred dollars a shirt make sure you explain
why they should pay one hundred dollars.

5. Advertise in Many Markets
- Get your name on to the thier computer screen. They can't buy from you
if they don't know you exsist.


----------



## ieaturheart

Twinge said:


> Well, I wouldn't really recommend this either - splash/intro pages, even if they aren't flash, aren't usually a good thing. Generally speaking, this adds one extra click, and the fewer clicks from start to checkout the better.


see your point and it makes perfect sense. the only thing, in my opinion, is if i have just shirts then a checkout it is not so asthetically pleasing to the eyes. i guess i get all my website and t-shirt selling influence from the sites i buy stuff from. this are all that come to mind for the moment being, but you might see a trend in most of them or maybe its just me:

Rock Rebel Clothing
((*BLEEDING*STAR*CLOTHING*))
WWW.RIDETHEROCKETT.COM
Metropark - Fashion. Music. Art.
HEARTCORE
Affliction Clothing
CARDBOARD ROBOT
BEAUTIFUL/DECAY
I heart drop dead!
R3mnant


thanks
-austin


----------



## Escograffix

Wow those are some really great sites. In your opinion which sites grab the your or the customers' attention and draw them in the most often? We're getting ready to set up a site for our t-shirt line and I was just wondering which way would be the best to gear our site.


----------



## Rodney

ieaturheart said:


> see your point and it makes perfect sense. the only thing, in my opinion, is if i have just shirts then a checkout it is not so asthetically pleasing to the eyes. i guess i get all my website and t-shirt selling influence from the sites i buy stuff from. this are all that come to mind for the moment being, but you might see a trend in most of them or maybe its just me:
> 
> Rock Rebel Clothing
> ((*BLEEDING*STAR*CLOTHING*))
> WWW.RIDETHEROCKETT.COM
> Metropark - Fashion. Music. Art.
> HEARTCORE
> Affliction Clothing
> CARDBOARD ROBOT
> BEAUTIFUL/DECAY
> I heart drop dead!
> R3mnant
> 
> 
> thanks
> -austin


Nobody said just have "shirts and then checkout", but the message you quoted talked specifically about "flash intro pages", which don't help the shopper at all and just waste time.

I checked a few of the sites you linked to and they mostly have standard shopping carts and checkout processes.

They just "styled" the store to match their brand. Nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't get in the way of people shopping.

Nobody is saying your site has to be "boring" or "bland"


----------



## TripleT

I liked the sites you listed also, but I don't like Flash Intro Pages - most are too long and that makes the site boring


----------



## monkeylantern

farennikov said:


> hey, I saw that Flash site, it looks pretty plain actually, even though it's Flash.
> 
> Here's a link to the sickest flash jeans company website: hem_main - check it out


AARGGGGH! Not only flash, but MYSTERY MEAT NAVIGATION! It's like the love child of 2007 Flash and 1995 HTML.


----------



## monkeylantern

*Re: die flash die*



Parlophone said:


> flash is only effective when the user cannot tell it's flash.


This is a good maxim.


----------



## monkeylantern

I think the most important thing, and the key issue that splits the real businesses for the also-rans, is....

....drumroll....


BRANDING​ 
Looking at some of the sites with flash that some here like, it is not the Flash _per se _(such as the second jeans site), it is the quality branding.

Same when people say they like music. It is not the music. It is the fact that those sites have been well branded (and the music, in my opinion is still a mistake).

Take away the controversial things from those "But this is an exception!!" sites, places that contain things the majority of us here despise, and you'll see that it wasn't those features that actually appealed to you.

It was the branding. Branding is why Rodney placed Oddica in the Big Boys list. Branding is why that flash-centric jeans place was liked.

BRAND IS GOD 
(and SEO is your mistress)


​


----------



## Solmu

monkeylantern said:


> Take away the controversial things from those "But this is an exception!!" sites, places that contain things the majority of us here despise, and you'll see that it wasn't those features that actually appealed to you.


Agree 100%, and well said.


----------



## monkeylantern

Do I get a gold star?


----------



## Solmu

monkeylantern said:


> Do I get a gold star?


If I had any, sure


----------



## Rodney

Where's Nick been hiding all this knowledge?



monkeylantern said:


> Branding is why Rodney placed Oddica in the Big Boys list


It seems like he's right inside my head  Makes perfect sense when I think about it.


----------



## oddica

still trying to get off Rodney's Big Boy list 

small is the new big, as the extraordinarily prescient Seth Godin tells us.

Seth's Blog: Small is the new big


----------



## MotoskinGraphix

BRANDING Yeah...its totally laughable but then there IS hollister and Pac Sun. i STILL DONT KNOW WHO OR WHY hOLLISTER EXISTS.


----------



## jack_diddly

Designs are always important, but traffic is king. Get as many eyes that want to see t shirts to your site as you can. If they find it, they will buy. Good looking girls in your shirts don't hurt either. The ladies that see your designs say I will look good like and buy. Men go to see the ladies and buy. Not to mention women spend the most money and love to compete in the cute and new impulse purchase department. I don't mean to be a pig with this post.


----------



## monkeylantern

Rodney said:


> Where's Nick been hiding all this knowledge?


Are you suggesting my input is usually vacuous? 

To be honest, I've been slightly naughty, and working against the spirit of the forums.

As we come closer and closer to our re-launch, I've discovered all sorts of wonderful hints and tips. However, I've been sort of holding my cards close to my chest. When I find a spectacularly good marketing strategy, or printing method, or new method of 2c woven labeling, I don't really want to give that away until we've launched, else be pipped to the post. 

You may have noticed I've dried up a little.

It'll come out in time.



Rodney said:


> It seems like he's right inside my head  Makes perfect sense when I think about it.



I live inside your head. It's rent-controlled, and has a good view of the city.


----------



## Rangga ArtMedia

dub3325 said:


> Bottom line....don't use flash.


yes you can, if you have "boring? wasting your time here!" page . I mean, you can still use flash, music, your photos, anything... but not for intro, put it aside -- let visitors decide if they want so see it.

the most important is how quick they can see your stuffs from the homepage


----------



## Rangga ArtMedia

Republicofstates said:


> ok... and what do you think about advertising? for example adwords, and bannerexchange...


everyone is busy talking about the site and forget to answer this question 

before advertising you may like to try social shopping site (I posted some of them on this threads), has anyone tried these sites?

oh yeah of course, monkeylantern is right, branding is most important...


----------



## monkeylantern

Rangga ArtMedia said:


> yes you can, if you have "boring? wasting your time here!" page . I mean, you can still use flash, music, your photos, anything...


NO!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rangga ArtMedia

monkeylantern said:


> NO!!!!!!!!!!


err,, how about short jingle?


----------



## monkeylantern

Rangga ArtMedia said:


> err,, how about short jingle?


NO!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ross B

The trouble with going hyperbolic immediately, is that there is nowhere left to move for any extra emphasis. 

My thought for the day...think I'd better go back to test pattern...


----------



## monkeylantern

I went red!


----------



## Twinge

And underlined!


----------



## Ross B

OK...and I suppose there is always italics. And exclamation marks to add after that. Soooo, one bloke's hyperbole is another's understatement. Where would we be without relativity theory?


----------



## knight7th

What's wrong with flash intros is:

a) Search engines can't/don't index them
b) Many people (believe it or not) don't have or use flash, and all they see is a blank page
c) They're annoying, I almost always skip them


While we're on the subject, no flash navigation period. Flash images are OK, but clever flash navigation sometimes doesn't work...


----------



## farennikov

Totally agree with points A and C, as far as "many" without Flash player - that's really subjective - many is how many, 2-3%? I look in my websites analytics and pretty much everyone has some version of Flash and traffic is mostly US/Canada. Maybe you're talking about some underdeveloped countries where they still use IE 4 or something...




knight7th said:


> What's wrong with flash intros is:
> 
> a) Search engines can't/don't index them
> b) Many people (believe it or not) don't have or use flash, and all they see is a blank page
> c) They're annoying, I almost always skip them
> 
> 
> While we're on the subject, no flash navigation period. Flash images are OK, but clever flash navigation sometimes doesn't work...


----------



## TripleT

> What's wrong with flash intros is:





> c) They're annoying, I almost always skip them


Same here. Very few are even interesting!


----------



## Twinge

farennikov said:


> Totally agree with points A and C, as far as "many" without Flash player - that's really subjective - many is how many, 2-3%? I look in my websites analytics and pretty much everyone has some version of Flash and traffic is mostly US/Canada.



The official numbers (from a survey commissioned by Adobe, so it could be biased) state that only 2% of users don't have some type of Flash installed. However, 15% don't have Flash 7 installed - and that's a big chunk of people. This is purely from English speaking respondants as well.

Other reports I've seen (mostly from website stats) range from about 4% to 25% of visitors that weren't able to view their Flash content. On the high end they're probably including Search Engines, but I know at least one report of 10% specifically excluded the bots.

So... is this enough people to worry about? That's up to you. I think it is. I also think the 15% of people still on 800x600 resolution is worth worrying about too, but that will also depend on your site and your goals.


----------



## AustinJeff

Twinge said:


> Other reports I've seen (mostly from website stats) range from about 4% to 25% of visitors that weren't able to view their Flash content...
> 
> So... is this enough people to worry about? That's up to you. I think it is. I also think the 15% of people still on 800x600 resolution is worth worrying about too, but that will also depend on your site and your goals.


First, I have to say that I do have a bias against Flash because it is a proprietary standard. However, my guess is that people who don't have Flash installed are the same people who simply do not shop online. 

For me, the most important question is whether a pretty Flash site will draw in enough additional customers to make up for those who are alienated by it. Unless the answer is overwhelmingly "Yes," then it's not worth the time, trouble and expense in my book. YMMV.


----------



## zfigure7

1. One to two click shopping interface.
2. First page attractive product graphic icons
3. Search engines optimized
4. Images with real people wearing them
5. Overall nice impression of the site visit


----------



## scrappyc123

Great feedback. Thanks!!


----------



## bbrenda88

hestonian said:


> I like to know what shipping is up front. I don't want to have to go through several screens, inputting my name, address, etc., only to get to the final screen to find out what the shipping charge is.
> 
> It's only one tip, but, in addition to the great tips already posted, it's one I plan on using with my own site.


 
I'm the same way, I hate it when I go through the process of placing an order and then I get to the end only to find out that the shipping price is outrageous!


----------



## rejoice

TomandBunny said:


> We also do vinyl cutting for stickers and for one off shirts. we have now on all orders off the site, we wait 1 week and we mail them a surprise decal for their car! this really has shocked people and has made them not only ask us for our cards to give people but they now come to our site to buy more shirts! we could send the decal in the same package as others have suggested, but we thought that unexpected envelope a week or so later with a nice thank you letter and a cool decal for their car window just makes a bit more difference.


Sending the goodies a week later is a great idea! Something I have noted and will implement with my website once it's launched. Cheer!!!!!


----------



## rejoice

TomandBunny said:


> Oh, lemme point out. I don't like sites that want me to create an account to buy one shirt. I have been on five sites now that when you go to pay it requires you to create a profile. I just click the close button on my browser. to me that is a pain and I see no need for it.


The good checkout automatically creates an account as you need to enter all the particulars for shipping anyway... but it does depend on how it's presented as if it's a must then I don't bother, where as if there is an incentive to become a member then I'm usually more than happy to oblidge and sign up.


----------



## enclothe

Generally I think even if you opt to not create an account, the account will still be made anyways and your information will still be stored on a server somewhere. 
Unless this store owner keeps no records at all, and they probably won't be in business for long.


----------



## LeDynasty

I keep seeing "search engine optimized." Can you guys elaborate more on this? Do you mean have each tshirt design specifically searchable on your site? Or do you mean optimize exposure on search engines such as google, yahoo, etc.?

And as for Flash, my 2 cents is this: Flash has its greatest value for 1st time visitors who may go "oooh and ahhhh" at your site. But assuming that you want repeat customers, the flash will lose it's novelty, and if you're like me, you'll just want to get straight to the product! The less clicks it takes for your customer to puchase your product, the better.


----------



## jpop

Due to the great amount of artworks I have im using menalto gallery instead with an email checkout option


----------



## Rodney

jpop said:


> Due to the great amount of artworks I have im using menalto gallery instead with an email checkout option


That doesn't sound like a very user friendly shopping experience.

There are lots of t-shirt websites with tons of t-shirt graphics for sale. Most shopping carts can handle this easily.

I don't think I would recommend menalto for a t-shirt ecommerce site.


----------



## karlking85

MotoskinGraphix said:


> BRANDING Yeah...its totally laughable but then there IS hollister and Pac Sun. i STILL DONT KNOW WHO OR WHY hOLLISTER EXISTS.


There's a pretty good reason for Hollister....
Everybody wants to go to the beach, but usually can't spring for the bus fare.


----------



## farennikov

One good suggestion for usability - do not make registration on the site mandatory in order to complete a purchase. Allow to simply pay for the items in one step (either PayPal / Google Checkout) or integrated credit card processing gateway. 

Also, do not use payment gateways that redirect user to another site.


----------



## mamabloom

real people wearing them, do you think that is vital ?


----------



## Rodney

mamabloom said:


> real people wearing them, do you think that is vital ?


Not _vital_, but it _helps_.


----------



## SunEmbroidery

To add:
1. Contact information (on every page)
2. Privacy Policy

SEO wise - each page should focus on a niche.

Flash Intros aren't good because SE's can't read them, they take up valuable time(some viewers will click away) & they may be slow to load for those with dial-up.


----------



## farennikov

SunEmbroidery said:


> To add:
> 1. Contact information (on every page)
> 2. Privacy Policy
> 
> SEO wise - each page should focus on a niche.
> 
> Flash Intros aren't good because SE's can't read them, they take up valuable time(some viewers will click away) & they may be slow to load for those with dial-up.


There are techniques to make Flash SE indexable. 

As far as speed, you know, in 5-10 years from now there STILL will be people with dial up. Same as there still will be people who ride horse carts not trucks. You can't adapt to that kind of demographic forever. For example, I know that my t-shirts are a little more expensive then regular t-shirt price. So I assume that if my demographic can buy my shirts, they can also afford high speed internet. Plus I know exact stats on connection speed of my users from Google Analytics, and I know that only 3.5% of my visitors still use dial up. So I don't take them into account - and if I want a huge cool Flash presentation, I will have it. 

My point is, you have to know your demographic and not simply make it a rule that Flash is a no-no because some users have dial-up.


----------



## karlking85

That's very true, it depends on your targeted demographic. For me, I like flash but would never have it on an ecommerce site, but my audience is not as far up the economic food chain as yours are. Most of my customers are going to be using dialup, or at the very least, the type that don't have the patience for loading times.


----------



## maddog9022

farennikov said:


> There are techniques to make Flash SE indexable.
> 
> As far as speed, you know, in 5-10 years from now there STILL will be people with dial up. Same as there still will be people who ride horse carts not trucks. You can't adapt to that kind of demographic forever. For example, I know that my t-shirts are a little more expensive then regular t-shirt price. So I assume that if my demographic can buy my shirts, they can also afford high speed internet. Plus I know exact stats on connection speed of my users from Google Analytics, and I know that only 3.5% of my visitors still use dial up. So I don't take them into account - and if I want a huge cool Flash presentation, I will have it.
> 
> My point is, you have to know your demographic and not simply make it a rule that Flash is a no-no because some users have dial-up.


 
it's not the that it is only people with dial up that dont want to see it. people dont want to waste their time before they look at you site. I have dsl and cable and sometimes flash intos take forever to load.

why would you wanna drive people away from you site no matter how little percent it is.



karlking85- who are you tring to sell to?


----------



## farennikov

It's not the point, maddog. My point is that you got to know your audience/demographic. If you think whatever Flash is going to help you - fine, don't worry if your 1% of site visitors who have dial-up will get frustrated. I am not a fan of Flash intros either. But like I said, it does not matter if I am a fan or not, it's about knowing your audience and its needs, preferences.


----------



## SunEmbroidery

Good point, its very important to know who your customer is. I'm in a similar situation, most of my customers have a high speed connection. But, most of them are extremely short on time & they don't care about extra bells & whistles. I think if you want flash its important to have a bypass intro link. Personally, I click past flash because of the time issue. I'm curious about the techniques to index flash - I guess that's another thread. I would also think that flash would be more appropriate on some sites depending on the entire look of the site. For example, flash would be more appropriate on a very high tech site that sells high tech items.


----------



## karlking85

Some folks appreciate the ambiance of certain multimedia on a website. I happen to enjoy the sound bite of the seagulls calling and the waves rolling that play out on the Hollister website, it brings me closer to my little seaside paradise. However, their site mainly serves a purpose of driving customers to the MALL, and I will admit, even I own alot of clothing from Hollister, but NOT ONE piece was purchased from the website.


----------



## SunEmbroidery

Yes, if you enjoy the shopping experience & you're not just in a hurry or trying to get shirts ordered so you can get on with other business. I deal with primarily business owners so they tend to be in a rush. It all goes back to "knowing who your customer is".


----------



## Rodney

Also remember that you can't know all your customers.

So, while you, and say 20% of your customers might_ like_ music, if 50-80% of your visitors will be _severely turned off_ by music, it might be a good idea to play it safe and leave the music off.

While music is "nice" and some people may "appreciate it", when you break it down to "will it help a person buy from my site", then you can see how it's safer to leave it off.


----------



## Gunslinger

Exactly, you just can't know. You can get an idea, by checking your stats. With my main site, my mom wrote me once that my stepdad couldn't get enough playing with all the flashy effects, sounds and music. And 60% of my visitors visit the flash side, over the html side. But would I want them distracted by playing around my site, or do I want em to check out my shirts, and preferably BUY something?

No, keep the store simple, highlighting your products. Beyond that, you can always have a general company site to have something more entertaining to impress them with, like I do.


----------



## karlking85

It is definitely safer in most cases to just leave it off. There will always be more people that will be turned off by it than those who will actually purchase BECAUSE of said multimedia. (Would ANYONE actually buy just because of a music clip???) 

I somehow doubt it. It's good for entertainment, but we're not in the music industry.  lol


----------



## romehimself

Keep it simple and eye catching not eye gouging.Smooth navigation and stress free purchasing.Most important,information.People love to read about what they are getting and get excited so be articulate as well...


----------



## TripleT

There is no need for music (or sound effects) on an ecommerce site. Bad idea in my opinion.


----------



## Solmu

Gunslinger said:


> And 60% of my visitors visit the flash side, over the html side.


Hmm, it would be interesting to compare the conversions of flash vs. html when a choice is offered actually.


----------



## Rodney

Solmu said:


> Hmm, it would be interesting to compare the conversions of flash vs. html when a choice is offered actually.


And to see on which side of the site people purchased more often. 

Like do people purchase more stuff on the flash side or the HTML version of the site.


----------



## Gunslinger

Yeah, it would, but remember our store isn't in flash format. Just the company site for local custom jobs have the two options, flash or html. They can immediately enter the store from anywhere within the company site. That is where I can try to see where folks are clicking from and see which are more likely to buy. The store has only been open a week, so it will be some time before I have the numbers to throw out. But I will follow up on this thread, when I have some data.

LOL ... right now, I am just watching which shirts are folks more attracted to (which are viewed more than others), to give me an idea where I should focus my design efforts.


----------



## karlking85

That's a really good idea, Michael. I might have to keep that in mind for my site.


----------



## Solmu

Gunslinger said:


> Yeah, it would, but remember our store isn't in flash format.


Yeah, I was just being wistful.


----------



## Gunslinger

Not sure if it helps, but I dug into my reports to see if there was any difference:

Out of folks visiting the store from within the company site ...

More then half, went immediately to the store from the home page. Which seems to concur with Rodney's advice to keep the clicks to a minimum.

Of the remaining, 3/4 came from the flash site over the html site. Which may just meam that it was due to more visitors to the flash side to begin with.


----------



## karlking85

Those are interesting results. I wonder if the flash side did have more visitors, which would translate to more sales....


----------



## entropy

monkeylantern said:


> A little flash sprinkled into a site can work wonders....too much and it's vile.


I think that you nailed it, Nick.

A little flash content on the page can really help up-sell a new product, but making people wade through self-indulgent intros before the folks can get to what they are looking for is suicide. At that point it's a barrier or entry.


----------



## lilly4

I agree - drives me nuts when prices aren't listed..... I've found it happening more and more. I don't want to waste time sending emails backwards and forwards, I just move onto the next site and if the price suits - they get the sale!


----------



## cyrilthemonkey

Rodney said:


> I'm not sure. When you're thinking about an ecommerce site selling t-shirts, I don't think auto-playing music benefits the shopping experience at all.
> 
> But I have been known to be wrong
> 
> I just found this article that agrees with lawaughn! Looks like I've learned 2 new things today:
> Teens and E-Commerce: Selling to the Teen Shopper
> 
> More here: Teens and E-Commerce: Selling to the Teen Shopper
> 
> 
> So I guess it *does* depend on your market.
> 
> Although I still think it should be optional (ie: you click a play button to start playing the music), but that's just my old fashioned opinion


That first article is one of the best I've read - SO useful.

Thanks Rodney.


----------



## mrchristie

NO FLASH INTRO! Just give people an easy to navigate site. And show the damn price upfront...


----------



## Daniel Slatkin

One thing I always would get told by my older customer is to never use reverse Text. By reverse Text I am referring to white Text on black or Dark backgrounds. It is just to hard for them to read so they just go somewhere else. Ever since this was brought to my attention I can't stand having to read Reverse Text.


----------



## CUSTOM UK

A site is simply a business tool. It is there to serve a purpose.

First off it must be easy to use. Anything that's not straightforward 'point and click' isn't doing anyone any good. The navigation is critical, you need to know where you are and where you're going. If you have more than a few products they need to be categorised to make it easy for your customer to locate. 

Graphical design of your site is really a matter of personal choice, but good contrast with your colours is absolutely essential, as no two montors display colours exactly the same. You need to test your site on more than one type of browser and at different screen resolutions, to make sure everything still has clarity for the user.


----------



## TiD

Daniel Slatkin said:


> One thing I always would get told by my older customer is to never use reverse Text. By reverse Text I am referring to white Text on black or Dark backgrounds. It is just to hard for them to read so they just go somewhere else. Ever since this was brought to my attention I can't stand having to read Reverse Text.



It's also blinding to go from a black background website to a white website like this one.


----------



## spankthafunk

Daniel Slatkin said:


> One thing I always would get told by my older customer is to never use reverse Text. By reverse Text I am referring to white Text on black or Dark backgrounds. It is just to hard for them to read so they just go somewhere else. Ever since this was brought to my attention I can't stand having to read Reverse Text.


 
This is a very tricky thing to think about, and most people don't. Contrast is what makes things easier to see, white on black, black on white, bright yellow on dark blue. You can have two different colors in the same range of brightness/darkness and they will be hard to see.

The one thing that people don't realize though when using a lot of white backgrounds with black text is it's a *LOT* harder on the eyes as far as brightness is concerned. You may have to squint a little to see white text on black backgrounds, but the darkness of these sites keep the monitors from blaring white light in your eyeballs. It reminds me of a quote from the best page in the universe:

"Think about it: your monitor is not a piece of paper, no matter how hard you try to make it one. Staring at a white background while you read is like staring at a light bulb (don't believe me? Try turning off the lights next time you use a word processor). Would you stare at a light bulb for hours at a time? Not if you want to keep your vision."

And the following quote makes the point:



> It's also blinding to go from a black background website to a white website like this one.


ever wonder why? Now you know. . .


----------



## payet-tees

Buechee said:


> I did even ask, but thank you all. I'm getting ready to design a site for myself and I could use this thread.


 
I am no expert but I think the reason a lot of sites leave prices out are

1. Prices change

2. Competitors can see

That is just my opinion


----------



## darubio

ieaturheart said:


> see your point and it makes perfect sense. the only thing, in my opinion, is if i have just shirts then a checkout it is not so asthetically pleasing to the eyes. i guess i get all my website and t-shirt selling influence from the sites i buy stuff from. this are all that come to mind for the moment being, but you might see a trend in most of them or maybe its just me:
> 
> Rock Rebel Clothing
> ((*BLEEDING*STAR*CLOTHING*))
> WWW.RIDETHEROCKETT.COM
> Metropark - Fashion. Music. Art.
> HEARTCORE
> Affliction Clothing
> CARDBOARD ROBOT
> BEAUTIFUL/DECAY
> I heart drop dead!
> R3mnant
> 
> 
> thanks
> -austin


Hey I got some questions to ask and il be grateful for any info that you may have..

You know some of those sites u got listed..lets say I heart drop dead for examples.

Im just wondering what kind of "printing process they use" to do their t shirts! They seem to be able to fill up the whole t shirt with their designs which i prefer? 

I keep thinking its DTG but ive been looking at some DTG and the largest they can print is A3 but somehow the "Dropdead" tees seem to have their desing all over the t shirt! So how do they do it?


----------



## HM-1 Addict

I am currently a DTG guy only, but I would LOVE to know the answer to this as well... is it possible to do all-over printing with DTG? This is probably a question for another thread but since someone already brought it up...


----------



## muneca

Wow! Thanks, great thread. I am in the process of creating my site. I've been having some trouble doing it on my own. However, I was thinking of a site on a much bigger scale later on down the line. This advice will save me a ton a money in the future. Even though, I still think that my idea is brilliant. But, thus far I've learned a lot from everyone here...and to date...the info I've found has proven to be more than CORRECT! 

Thanks all! I sill think I had a great & unique idea over here. ha-ha!


----------



## muneca

hey, how do you add a thread as one of your favorites?


----------



## pwhite20

Actually, Flash can add to the overall design of the site if you use it sparingly appropriately and make sure it doesn't slow down the usability of the site. By appropriately I mean that it should add some kind of value for the users - not just look "cool". A good example of this might be a magnifying glass to zoom in on a picture of your product or to offer streaming tutorial audio/videos to your site. 

Approximately 98% of users have at least one version of Flash player installed on their machines, but a good developer will detect if they do not have it, or have a version you don't support, and an HTML version of the site would be served up alternatively. 

And to correct an older statement in this thread, while they did not at one time, search engines do now index flash sites. They don't do it quite as well as simple static sites, but they do extract the text from your flash file (swf) and index the content of your site using that text. They also will not index text that is served up by a database, so if your product descriptions are kept in a database people might not be able to find them with a search engine. Again, if you're going to use flash you should have an alternative HTML version of your site anyway which would resolve this.


----------



## ole Jobe

What's wrong with flash intros?


----------



## ole Jobe

What's wrong with flash intros?Your potential customers aren't looking to be entertained. If they want to watch a movie they will go elsewhere.


----------



## SunEmbroidery

Up until recently Google couldn't read flash intros and anything Google doesn't like won't help your site. I believe that has changed somewhat although I'd have to research that. For many sites your home page is your primary landing page so why would you short change yourself and hurt your chances of having good SE results by not including lots of information (front & backend) on your home page? I agree that some flash intros are cool but generally speaking I don't care for them because I'm usually in a hurry - just my personal opinion. But, if it is important to you artistically to have a flash intro then I would include the intro along with a link to bypass it so your customers can choose what they prefer.


----------



## Rodney

muneca said:


> hey, how do you add a thread as one of your favorites?


Read here: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/forum-information/t11262.html


----------



## pwhite20

ole Jobe said:


> What's wrong with flash intros?



Again, if you're going to use flash make sure it provides added value for your customers. Generally, flash intro's provide NO VALUE to your customers whatsoever. Customers want to get it, find what they want, then get out. They don't want to be slowed down by having to sit though a bunch of glitzy junk.


----------



## tuan

Before I even go down on my list of important factors for a website, the FIRST and most important thing is the overall appearance of the website. If that website is not well designed or doesn't look professional to me there is no number 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 because I'm already gone and moved on to another website. So the design, look and professionalism of the website is #1 to me.


----------



## spider44

What would you say are some of the best designed websites?


----------



## LMCTees

A phone number with a real person!


----------



## tuan

spider44 said:


> What would you say are some of the best designed websites?


Right off hand I don't know which sites are great but they are out there. I guess I'm thinking of bigger companies that have the money to do nice looking layouts. Also a few smaller European labels I've seen are nice but I can't name any.


----------



## ubercooltees

Most of these issiues can be solved by using a free ecommerce website script. I used oscommerce in the past because it was so easy, now I use joomla with virtuemart. It has really helped me get the title of my t-shirts picked up by search engines.


----------



## lincolnapparel

Personally, I prefer a clean, uncluttered, fast-loading interface, with images of the T-shirts on the front page. That way, I can easily see what designs are offered without being distracted by "noise". 

I really don't like excessive use of Flash or Javascript - it can often be distracting/annoying and more importantly, it won't necessarily work on everyone's browser/computer. Just because someone has Flash installed or a JS-capable browser doesn't mean that it's available. For instance, I have it disabled by default in my browser, unless I enable it for a specific site (precisely because too many sites use them in annoying ways). I won't see it unless I enable it, so it's important for me to show me what you have to offer without using these things. NEVER use Flash or Javascript for important navigational elements, only use it to enhance site usabilty when it is enabled.

Some workplaces/public computers etc. don't have Flash or Javascript enabled. Javascript works differently in different browsers and may not always work the same way (or at all). The Flash plugin is proprietary and the appropriate versions aren't necessarily available for all browsers and OSes. And of course, search engines are poor at extracting data if it's contained within a Flash or JS app.

And don't forget that there are still people on dialup. Not me, but plenty of other people are.


----------



## Joe Micheal

Here are some tips but more than 5.

1. Know your audience. It is important that you understand your target audience - who are they.

2. Have a clear website goal. Do you want customers to transact on your website with a credit card or just take an online order which is process manually?

3. Language and content.Always develop content with customers in mind, in a language that they understand.

4. Consistent branding. Ensure the look and feel of the website is consistent across all pages and with all other offline marketing materials.

5. Domain name. Choose a good domain name for your website - a good domain name should be easy to say, understand, remember and spell.

6. Visitor tracking. Use a website counter from the moment you launch the website, even if you do not expect to receive large volumes of visits on the first day.

7. Website stickiness and customer loyalty. Try to include tools to help increase your website “stickiness”. These may be features such as a forum, a chatroom, or a blog that encourage repeat visits.

8. Screen resolution. Never assume that the resolution of your PC is the same as your customers.

9. Picture size.Keep an eye on picture sizes, especially on the home page. This could slow download time and drive customers away.

10. Updates.Remember to update your content as often as you can. Providing new content regularly is a good way to keep your website fresh and encourage repeat visits.

11. Test, test, test. Make sure your website is tested before it goes live. Test it in-house and with a sample audience. Test it on different computers, monitors and browsers. Test it using a dial-up or broadband connection. Check for download speed on all the pages, make sure links are intact, contact forms work, the images are in the right places and so forth. Test, test test.


----------



## ladyumbrella

Real good list of points there Joe..more than 5 but no complaints here...


----------



## crownking1

flash intros are not seo friendly and slow down your page.


----------



## elijahbfein

For me, the flashiness of the intro takes away from the actual product. I like to know exactly what I'm buying, and don't want to be forced into waiting through a video or slideshow. 

I've been touring a few sites for shirts and some have way too much going on in the site and it distracts from the shirts.


----------



## gearadelphia

I was checking to see if a guide for eCommerce sites existed in here. This is pretty outdated. So, I wanted to give it a bump and see if we can come up with some good standards/practices. What do you think is important? I'll get the ball rolling with some thoughts in no particular order.


 Good photography and multiple product image
 Strategically placed up-sell and related products blocks
 Well-written content on the site -- in addition to products -- to drive traffic
 Strong product descriptions
 Offer multiple payment and shipping options
 Competitive pricing, incentives/rewards and options like free shipping
 Abandoned cart reminders (and discounts?)
 Filtering, sorting, searching
 Terrific customer service and fair policies (good communication, no hidden prices, quick turnaround time)
 Put a focus on the products and not trendy flashiness that will be quickly outdated
 Remembering that your site is a living entity and constantly needs to be updated and modified
 Ease of use (Clean and straightforward UI, remove clutter, as few clicks as possible to checkout and pay)
 Fun search engine stuff (Quick page load speed, OG tags, Twitter cards, schema.org rich snippets, sitemap, clean URL, canonical tags, valid HTML/CSS/JS, cross-browser compatibility)
 Responsive design
 Thorough analytics/tracking to see what works and what doesn't

OK, I went a bit overboard there but I'd love to hear feedback and other ideas!


----------



## SunEmbroidery

Great list! I would add the importance of focusing on a niche market. Most of your items were customer orientated. I would like to hear more about SEO tips. I don't know about offering abandoned cart discounts. I wouldn't want to encourage that. As a shopper, I'm often guilty of that but I return to purchase.


----------



## ShirlandDesign

I'm just in the process of building my store so my comments reflect research that resonates with me but hasn't been proven in my experience, so take it for what you paid for it.

1) To flash or not to flash. People get a high from shopping if they think they are buying into a "pack" or social group. Entertainment outside of social inclusion is like Dennis Miller on Sunday Night Football. If the game isn't interesting enough without a comedian, the game isn't interesting enough.

2) SEO. Working to line up with your nearest competitors. This is comodatization in it's purest form. It's like how Walmart buys, line up the cheapest five vendors and let them get into a bidding war. It's all anyone ever talks about in E commerce so I'm sure there's something to it. But think about separating yourself from the bidding wars. Just my take.

3) Page Color. Cnn just went to high color full screen pictures of the headline event with super bold type as a headline. Gives me vertigo to try and read it, I've switched to the BBC. They are far more nuetral on American issues anyway. White works for Amazon, Ebay and Etsy. That ought to tell you something.

4) Music. refer to item 1).

5) Site Stickiness. Over time if I want to be plugged in I'll plug in. Otherwise I don't get told what to do by people who aren't putting money into my pocket. 

6) Long lists of horse$hit I have to study to get a descent deal. KISS. I have enough to keep up with in Health Insurance, prescriptions, Income Tax, Business law, etc,etc.,etc. You can't just buy a tire anymore, they have tire programs. A pox on the house of anyone who has an instruction book for simple purchase items.

And lastly (for the time being) those up and down moving ads at the top of a site that make your page crawl up and down until you deal with damn things. Same as ads before you can watch a video. If I were a hacker (which I'm not) they would be my first and only concern, how to cause the greatest amount of grief to whoever the Motherless, godless, half human dolt was that created the scrolling ad box. 

Whooo, that felt good


----------



## NinaX

*Re: website*



DickTees.net said:


> 1. Ease of Use
> 2. Aesthetically Pleasing
> 3. Search Engine Optimized
> 4. NO FRAMES!!!
> 5. NO FLASH INTRO MOVIES!!!


agry! Good list!


----------



## Andrew Craw

really useful info!
I'd add here also e-shop themes guys recommend since didn't have problems with it and like design.

I'd recommend a multipurpose theme I've tested recently - Monstroid WordPress Theme #55555
or these ones - T-shirt Shop Templates | TemplateMonster


----------



## Trotronics

Buechee said:


> I did even ask, but thank you all. I'm getting ready to design a site for myself and I could use this thread.


Amen to that!


----------



## aldorabancroft

Andrew Craw said:


> really useful info!
> I'd add here also e-shop themes guys recommend since didn't have problems with it and like design.
> 
> I'd recommend a multipurpose theme I've tested recently - Monstroid WordPress Theme #55555
> or these ones - T-shirt Shop Templates | TemplateMonster


Shared site is really very helpful.


----------



## ALexHebert

cyrilthemonkey said:


> That first article is one of the best I've read - SO useful.
> 
> Thanks Rodney.


I faced a similar error and foundsolution​ here https://wellmage.com/


----------



## JohnDeco

1.You need a domain and hosting. Better open in eCommerce platforms like Shopify, opencart, magento, etc.
2. Then customize your website using templates. You may also take help from a developer
3. Upload catalogue, images, price.
4. Most importantly, include product customization to your business by integrating product desing software
with proper SEO, and marketing, you are set to go long


----------

