# Is DTG Ready for a Small Clothing Line?



## PPop (Jan 18, 2009)

Question: Is DTG Printing ready for a small Clothing Line?

As a clothing line, I need the ability to print samples of new designs, and print small to medium runs on demand. I'm only printing for my own line and no outside work is planned.

So...is a machine like the HM1 viable, or do I have to wait for and cough up $50K for the Kornit Breeze, or Brother 782 to get the quality, ease of use, reliability, consistency, for a $2-$3 cost per print + the $50 per day lease payment?

I've got samples from the 2 Long Beach 2009 shows and I think the Brother 782 (Tiger on Navy) and the Kornit (Dragon) are beautiful and have washed well.

I'm trying to compare current and near future DTG to Silkscreening with an outside printer at $2 per print with minimums and screen charges, to getting a used silkscreen press and all of the mess.

Thank You.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

DTG should work well for your intended use if you can get the prints to hold up. I haven't been able to get good wash tests on dark shirts with mine as of yet but I'm sure we're doing something wrong.

I went to the open house at Equipment Zone a couple of weeks back. They printed a black shirt on their equivalent of a Kiosk and gave me the shirt to test. We've washed it 25 times already and there is NO deterioration of the print other than the colors are very slightly faded. If I could get my prints to hold up like this, I could be selling a bunch of them...

My point is you don't need a $50K+ setup to get the type of result you are looking for. I was very impressed with their Velocijet which is significantly cheaper than a 782 or Kornit. Give Harry a call, I'm sure he can work with you...


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

A white ink DTG is a lot of work. I would not get one unless you can install it in an area where you can control temperature and humidity extremely well. Even then, if you are not printing on it every day, it will give you headaches and cost you lost print heads. I would recommend you buy something like a used T-Jet 2 that has a phenomenal print quality, but, has a single and relatively low cost print head. Unless you are going to be cranking out DTG prints all day and profitable, do not buy a DTG with multiple and/or expensive print heads. You will be replacing them, and if you are not in the black, it is very painful.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

PPop said:


> Question: Is DTG Printing ready for a small Clothing Line?


I'd think so, we bought a refurb T-Jet2 from Equipment Zone and have been very happy with it, the only down side is the maintenance associated with white link which your going to have with just about any DTG printer under $50k IMHO. We looked at every brand of DTG for months trying to decide at what level of investment we wanted to jump in at and our research showed us that the issues with DTG printing on dark shirts is for the most part universal and very common, every brand had issues with white ink which says its the ink not the machine because all (most) of the less than $50k machines use Dupont ink.

That said, if you know upfront the maintenance issues and are prepared to spend a few minuets a day keeping your machine clean you can do some wonderful things with a DTG printer that really can't be economically printed any other way....we have already found that the one-offs that we can do as samples are a great selling tool for our customers, when they can hold the shirt and feel the print quality it goes a long way towards selling them on a job......JMHO


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Matt & Mark,
With the White Ink Management System (WIMS) circulation that is standard on the DTG HM1-C, Viper and upcoming K-3 you can let your printer set for longer periods of time without printing as the circulation system will keep the white ink suspended in the bulk bottle, lines and dampers. Static systems like those with a fixed bulk system or closed cartridge system will require daily agitation of the white ink and then head cleanings to remove the settled ink from the dampers/cartridges/ink lines. By circulating the white ink we greatly reduce the number of head cleanings required to maintain a good print. Each saved head cleaning will save you up to a couple of dollars depending on the printer model and cost of the ink you are using, not to mention the greatly reduced incidence of printhead/damper clogs.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

Don-SWF East said:


> Matt & Mark,
> With the White Ink Management System (WIMS) circulation that is standard on the DTG HM1-C, Viper and upcoming K-3 you can let your printer set for longer periods of time without printing as the circulation system will keep the white ink suspended in the bulk bottle, lines and dampers. Static systems like those with a fixed bulk system or closed cartridge system will require daily agitation of the white ink and then head cleanings to remove the settled ink from the dampers/cartridges/ink lines. By circulating the white ink we greatly reduce the number of head cleanings required to maintain a good print. Each saved head cleaning will save you up to a couple of dollars depending on the printer model and cost of the ink you are using, not to mention the greatly reduced incidence of printhead/damper clogs.


Hey Don,

A question if you don't mind, will the WIMS be offered down the road as a stand-alone system that can be adapted to other DTG printers? Oh and to clear my mind even with the WIMS system would you not still have to do periodic head cleanings to remove the white ink that is in the print head or does the WIMS take care of that ink too? TIA


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Jon,
I have been working with our manufacturer/developer out of Auatralia on this. They have built a prototype that is being used on a Flexi-Jet in New Zealand for a while now. The challenge we are facing with the 2200 based machines (Kiosk, Kiosk II, T-Jet and T-Jet 2) is getting the pressure control dampers to fit in there properly. So, thae answer to your question is - we are working on it.

In regards to the ink "in" the printhead -it does not seem to be a problem - we have been selling printers with the WIMS circulation system for a year now with greatly reduced head loss. Probably a more important answer to your questions would be - would you rahter have stagnant ink in your bulk bottle, lines, dampers/cartridges and head or just the head?


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## PPop (Jan 18, 2009)

Thank you, but, The QUESTION is:

Is DTG ($7k used to $20k new, to $50k Kornit/Brother) good enough yet in quality and cost for a small clothing line, 
- vs an outside Screen Printer (@ $2 per shirt bagged and labeled + setup for new designs) 
- vs buying a used 8 Color TS Press and all the fixings ($8k)?

I figure I would be printing on ave 20 shirts per day between older, and new designs. I need to create 15 new designs right away..

Thank You.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

Don-SWF East said:


> Jon,
> I have been working with our manufacturer/developer out of Auatralia on this. They have built a prototype that is being used on a Flexi-Jet in New Zealand for a while now. The challenge we are facing with the 2200 based machines (Kiosk, Kiosk II, T-Jet and T-Jet 2) is getting the pressure control dampers to fit in there properly. So, thae answer to your question is - we are working on it.
> 
> In regards to the ink "in" the printhead -it does not seem to be a problem - we have been selling printers with the WIMS circulation system for a year now with greatly reduced head loss. Probably a more important answer to your questions would be - would you rahter have stagnant ink in your bulk bottle, lines, dampers/cartridges and head or just the head?


Thanks for the reply, I hope it works out because the system sounds like a real problem solver for all of us that deal with white ink everyday.....as far as stagnant ink in the print head that would be the last place I'd want to see it especially in the nozzles! LOL! but I get the jest of what your saying and I'd guess if it's being circulated what would wind-up in the print head/nozzles would be less of a problem than what we are dealing with today.

Thanks again...

Ooops...sorry for hi-jacking the thread.


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

PPop said:


> Thank you, but, The QUESTION is:
> 
> Is DTG ($7k used to $20k new, to $50k Kornit/Brother) good enough yet in quality and cost for a small clothing line,
> - vs an outside Screen Printer (@ $2 per shirt bagged and labeled + setup for new designs)
> ...


If you are going to be having enough shirts printed to get a $2 per shirt price, then I would go with contract screen printing (my opinion). DTG can certainly give you the quality, but it is not cost effective when compared to screen printing at any large quantity.

There is money to be made with DTG printing, but I am not sure a clothing line and trying to supply stores, even boutique type stores at lower quantities, is a great way to go. I am speaking from experience because that is exactly what I tried in the beginning.

Now I use my DTG to fulfill low quantity custom orders, to make prototypes for my own line, and to show customers a real garment in prototype form before we do a larger production run.


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## dragonknight (May 30, 2009)

The key factor to avoid white ink problem are make sure you have the right temperature and humidity level inside your working area. I don't have any problem even I don't use my machine in two weeks while I was in vacation.


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## PPop (Jan 18, 2009)

I've made a spreadsheet to compare:
a $7k used DTG, 
a $20k new DTG, 
My Current outside Printer, 
a slightly cheaper competitor, 
and buying a $7k used Silkscreen press...

I did this to compare print, machine, and setup costs for 4 different scenarios: 
- for 50 shirts, 
- 15 designs of 50 shirts=1500 shirts, 
- 300 shirts with no setup,
- 300 x 15= 4500 shirts, no setup.

I've reached a conclusion, but Before I finish it, I need to know how many you can easily print realistically per hour on say a HM1 and a Kornit or Brother all on Black T's?

Or, how long would it take for the 50 Samples x 15 designs = 750 shirts DTG?

Also how many shirts per month on average can you print on 5-6-7 hours of day printing DTG?

Thank you.


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

Using my T-Jet 2, one person doing all the work for dark shirts averages around 8 min. total a shirt for me. That includes these steps in this order: 
First pretreating a batch of shirts; pre-press, treat, cure press.
Then printing the same batch; loading and aligning on the board, printing, unloading, curing.
And finally; folding and boxing.

The T-Jet 2 takes five to six minuets of actual print time on average for me with the settings I use. Newer machines are faster though.


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## PPop (Jan 18, 2009)

OK, I've made a conclusion based on the bottom line of a spreadsheet I've made. The spreadsheet includes costs for the print, bagging, labeling, the lease on the machine, and setup costs.

For 15 Designs x 50 Shirts per Design:
7k Used DTG = $3.98 each for a total of $3000 for 750 shirts.
20k HM1 = $4.25 ea for a total of $4000
50K Bor/Kornit = $6.96 ea for a total of $5,200
Contract Printer = $4.65 for a total of $2,800
7k Used 8 C Press = $1.60 for a total of $1,200

For this scenario, it looks like my contract printer is the best for me because:
The price is affordable.
The quality is perfect.
I don't have to spend a good month buying used press, dryer and all of the parts, rearranging the warehouse, the mess, and the labor all to save $1600.

A used DTG saves $500 over my printer, a new 20k DTD costs $500 more. They would be competitive, but the 50K is not, costing $1,800 more for the sample run, costing $2.30 more per shirt.

For 4500 shirts (300 x 15):
7k Used DTG = $3.60 each for a total of $16,000.
20k HM1 = $4.25 for a total of $19,000
50K Kornit = $4.25 for a total of $19,000
Contract Printer = $2.65 for a total of $10,000
7k Used 8 C Press = $1.10 for a total of $4,500

For this scenario, it looks like owning a press clearly wins, saving 5k over the printer, 9k over the HM1 and the 50k DTG. Having an outside printer is 2nd and still is affordable...

The 50K DTG "only" costs $9,000 more than the contract printer for a good supply of new shirts... This 9k would buy the DTG's abilities to print on demand for T's, or even possibilities of nicer shirts like American Apparel 2001 on demand, colors, longsleeves, or even having more than 15 new designs!

My conclusion for the next 6-12 months, is to use my printer.

I do think though that the future is DTG, mainly for opening up a huge quantity of my licensed art/designs to be on shirts, and only needing 0-1-2 boxes of shirts in inventory per design, vs a warehouse of racks now.

I'm glad I spent this huge amount of time figuring out all of this... Now only if someone would stoke my company with a free "test" DTG printer, I could do a real world comparison!!


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## PPop (Jan 18, 2009)

So, What do you think of this cost analysis?

I would like some feedback. Does it seem correct that it costs $1.60 per print for a Silkscreen Press to $6.96 each for a 50K DTG for 750 T-Shirts?

This includes the print ink cost, setups, and machine lease costs...

Thanks.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

You talk about only printing samples and small amounts in your original post, and a screen printer would definately be higher, and that is if your screen printer would even do samples. With a screen printer, did you include your setup fees such as burning each screen for each color? You also said you were talking about printing around 20 shirts per day, which I would think with a screener would be a very small order for them and the set up would not make it very profitable for them. 

I always see people trying to compare screen printing and dtg printing, and they are really fill two completely different type of printing needs. Screening is great for large runs while dtg is great for smaller runs. Dtg is also great for high detail and high amount of colors. I would say that if you are looking to print small orders with high detail and colors, then dtg would work well. If you are looking to print higher numbers then screen printing would work well. Also have you thought about using plastitol transfers? That might also be another option to look into as well.

Hope this helps


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