# Possible to print BLACK on colored (red, blue, green) fabric WITHOUT WHITE?



## TheDTG (Jan 17, 2012)

Noob here trying to figure out what I will need.

For my specific DTG application, I would be printing only black (at least that is what I think at this point).

From what I have read, you need to first print white in order to DTG print onto colored shirts. 

Is the white necessary if I am only printing with black ink. 
Shirts would be yellow, blue, green, red, pink, purple, etc. 
Shirts will be polyester, not cotton.
Graphic would be simple logos and text only, all in black.
I am guessing yellow, light gray, maybe pink, should not be a problem, but how about dark green, dark blue, purple?

Thank you!!!


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Sure, you don't have to print with a white underbase when the color of ink you are printing is darker than the color of the garment / fabric you are printing on. However, printing on polyester and other synthetic fabrics typically require the use of a special type of pretreat fluid. 

Feel free to ask additional information.

Mark


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## TheDTG (Jan 17, 2012)

DAGuide said:


> printing on polyester and other synthetic fabrics typically require the use of a special type of pretreat fluid.


Thanks!!!
What is approx. cost of treating 10"x6" area?
Does pretreatment fluid need to be allowed to dry before printing? If yes, for how long? If it does need need to try, can you pretreat in advance?


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

TheDTG said:


> Noob here trying to figure out what I will need.
> 
> For my specific DTG application, I would be printing only black (at least that is what I think at this point).
> 
> ...


Have you considered sublimation for the lighter shirts? 

allso you mention all black prints, are the logos and text that of just a few different designs? If so you may want to consider screen printing them, especially if its the same designs over and over just keep the screens with loaded ink (plastisol) and off you go!!

both sublimation and screening are a much cheaper entry level methods IMHO and also better durability IMHO... need more info on what your trying to achieve!! additionally you can outsource the dtg work or get some samples printed of your objective for comparrison!!


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## TheDTG (Jan 17, 2012)

german13 said:


> Have you considered sublimation for the lighter shirts?
> 
> allso you mention all black prints, are the logos and text that of just a few different designs? If so you may want to consider screen printing them, especially if its the same designs over and over just keep the screens with loaded ink (plastisol) and off you go!!
> 
> both sublimation and screening are a much cheaper entry level methods IMHO and also better durability IMHO... need more info on what your trying to achieve!! additionally you can outsource the dtg work or get some samples printed of your objective for comparrison!!


Heh, I was just wondreing if screen priting would be the way to go in this thread: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t175714.html

I think that I will actually test market my concept using screen printing first. (another field I know nothing about. )

Does sublimation involve printing onto "transfer paper" first and is then tranferring the design onto the garment by pressing?


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

TheDTG said:


> Heh, I was just wondreing if screen priting would be the way to go in this thread: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t175714.html
> 
> I think that I will actually test market my concept using screen printing first. (another field I know nothing about. )
> 
> Does sublimation involve printing onto "transfer paper" first and is then tranferring the design onto the garment by pressing?


Based on what i have read so far "one color black designs/prints" I personally would screen this type of work.. simply put your cost will be pennies in comparrison to the other methods if your doing this yourself.. a one color press is cheap and just swap out screens per job and it looks like you will be printing the same designs over and over? next question is there halftones in the design if so you will need a rip software and graphics software corel/photo shop etc.. there is a low bleed inks for the poly etc..

I would suggest to you to read in the forums regarding the different decorating methods and whats involved in each and there durability comparrison in addition to per print average cost of each, maint requirements of each process etc.. your biggest margins will be screening this IMHO... theres pros n cons to all and learning curve per.. read as much as you can.. It all depends on your biz model objective/art requirements and such...1 color prints screening is a slam dunk once you learn the process.
p.s almost forgot "plastisol transfers"


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

All three decorating techniques are options. The best one will determine based on several things. For example, if the designs are large and solid prints... then you might not want to do screen printing because you will be placing a lot of ink that can weigh down the printed area on the garment or fabric that people are use to it being pretty soft and breathable. Dye sublimation and dtg printing are both digital applications and can be done is a smaller space usually depending on the largest size you need to print / cure. However, the cost for the equipment to do oversized / all-over printing with either one can get pretty expensive.

Another option would be plastisol transfers. This is basically screen printing, but done to a release paper. The ink is semi-cured till you flip the plastisol transfer over on top of the garment/fabric and heat press it. The ink releases from the paper and bonds to the garment / fabric. The benefit plastisol transfers has over screen printing is you don't have to till a screen printer (or yourself) exactly the quantity, model #, color,... you want with each design. If you are doing the printing, you don't have to do the setup work each time a shirt or shirts are ordered. Just pull out the transfers for that design and press.

I would suggest contacting a dtg printer, sublimation printer and a plastisol transfer company and get samples printed with your design on the fabric you want to use before you consider investing in any piece of equipment. This way you have the ability to touch & feel what the print is actually going to look like on your garment(s). You can have potential customers put them on and get their opinion before you make a final decision.

Best wishes,

Mark


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## TheDTG (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah, the size I will be doing is only 10"x8". Single color only. No "shades", just dark black. Printed on 100% polyester.

The only thing that scared me about screen printing is that there will end up being probably 60-100 different desings, although I expect that majority of printings will use some much, much smaller number of most popular designs. (Assuming, of course, that my concept gains traction at all.)


One thing I forgot to mention is that the print will have to* stretch* a little bit because the fabric also stretches a little bit. And it will need to be "resistant" to *abbrasion* (and, of course, washable).

Is any process particularly good for stretching and abrasion resistance?


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

go get you a nice cutter and play with the expansive world of heat press material. my return on investment on my cutter has been huge, and I also screen print and have 2 dtg printers. there's just times when heat press material makes sense. go check out Stahls.com as they have specialty materials that stretch, but there are a lot of vendors to choose from. as for the cutter, i purchased mine with plenty of downforce in case i ever wanted to do rhinestones, but there are cheaper ones out there to get started with. i think i paid around $1,200 for mine. it's a GCC Puma III that i purchased from Digital Art Solutions, but like i said, there are many different ones to choose from.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

TheDTG said:


> Yeah, the size I will be doing is only 10"x8". Single color only. No "shades", just dark black. Printed on 100% polyester.
> 
> The only thing that scared me about screen printing is that there will end up being probably 60-100 different desings, although I expect that majority of printings will use some much, much smaller number of most popular designs. (Assuming, of course, that my concept gains traction at all.)
> 
> ...


After the more information you provided, I would say dye sublimation or dtg printing are your best methods. Plastisol screen printing inks will sit on the top of the shirt and can be scratched off. You can put additives into specific types of screen printing inks that will add some stretch to them, but they will not stretch as much as CMYK digital inks - dye sublimation or dtg inks. Based on the size of your design, you can get a 13" wide Epson printer or Ricoh printer and put the dye sub inks in it for less than $1500.00. 

The primary concern with dye sub is you need to use the printer every couple of days or the ink will dry in the print head. If you can get past this, then you should not have much of an issue. Then all you need is a heat press.

Hope this helps.

Mark


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## apipromo (Nov 4, 2010)

I would def do dye-sub for this project. Get an Epson WF1100, search Ebay for a decent source of dye-sub ink, and an empty cis system from hotzone360 .com or equivalent. You can get in the game for under $400-$500, before the cost of a heat press of course which will be handy for all sorts of things. When you do this get a vapor foam kit so you don't leave lines on the shirt from the paper, and some specialty dye sub spray to hold the designs in place when lifting the heat press. On a polyester shirt, nothing is like a sublimated design, it truly is one with the fabric, and it can't flake off or wash out.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

apipromo said:


> *On a polyester shirt*


plenty of people dont like wearing plastic, cue the "moisture wicking" comments from dye sub fanboys, but the thing is you dont need to wick as much moisture if your wearing a natural material, you could alienate a large % of your customer base by going plastic.


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## apipromo (Nov 4, 2010)

TheDTG said:


> Shirts will be polyester, not cotton.
> Graphic would be simple logos and text only, all in black.
> !


I'm not a "Fan boy" of sublimation, we have been screen printing at our facilities since 1969. We also provide embroidery, vinyl transfers, and DTG. I'm simply giving my best opinion for the material they plan on using.


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

apipromo said:


> I'm not a "Fan boy" of sublimation, we have been screen printing at our facilities since 1969. We also provide embroidery, vinyl transfers, and DTG. I'm simply giving my best opinion for the material they plan on using.


a bit touchy arent we ? i didnt explicitly call you a fan boy did i


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## ROYAL SAVAGE (Feb 18, 2009)

what's a fan boy? that sounds kind of lame.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

printing black on dark shirts without white will look muddy. we tried it. you really need the white underbase.


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