# I just want to quit!



## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

I've been struggling with embroidery for almost a year now. I don't have as much time as I thought I would, but I try to do a little bit everyday. Its the most frustrating thing ever! I realize I had 2 days training and that was it. I have thread break after thread break after f ing thread break. I really have no idea why its happening. It took me 34 mins to embroider the attached hat....and that was standing over it the whole time waiting for the constant thread breaks. I don't know where to start. Is it my hooping? Is it the digitizing? Is it me? Does the machine not like to be swore at? I want to just give up and sell the damn thing. I have a Melco, brought it brand new almost a year ago. Can anyone help me? Lead me in some direction? Any help would be appreciated.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Who digitized it
What type of needles
What type of backing
What speed

If it isn't hooped snug you will get breaks, if it is too tight you will get breaks. 

The design should sew bottom up, middle out on hats. With this hat I would use ball points because the sharps will cut the hat material and it will fray. 

Can you attach the sew file?


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## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Needles Nm 75/11 (no idea what that means, my trainer told me to get them)
backing is just hat backing (I realize I sound stupid again my trainer told me what do by I have a whole roll of it.
Speed is 1200 spm.
I attached the file also


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## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

needles groz-beckert


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

1200 is too fast. Try it at 500. 

Also, are you using the hat needle plate? It will be raised up [media]http://www.melco-service.com/docs/AMAYA_OS_v10/Images/needleplates.gif[/media] 

The needles are probably ball points so that is ok. 

Who digitized it? 

I don't see the file attached.


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## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm trying to attached it again. I use Steve, lol some digitizing guy from here and I just tried a new guy. This file is with the new guy.

It won't let me me upload the dst file. Keeps coming with an error.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

TheJunkyard said:


> I'm trying to attached it again. I use Steve, lol some digitizing guy from here and I just tried a new guy. This file is with the new guy.
> 
> It won't let me me upload the dst file. Keeps coming with an error.


the pdf doesn't have the stitch sequence, can you rename the dst file and just take off the dst or make it .pdf?

Also, is that outline supposed to be offset?


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

Your speed is too fast if you are having problems. Adding extra backing can help with hats if there is extra room in the center. Many people prefer a 80/12 needle for hats. Some hat styles seem impossible if they don't fit your frame.

Do you have problems when embroidering a well-digitized file on flats at a speed of 600? It sounds like you need to start with an easier job so you can isolate the problem areas.


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## digitizingninjas (Aug 19, 2016)

I can check if digitizing file has problems, can you attach file


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## Express D (Mar 21, 2014)

TheJunkyard said:


> I'm trying to attached it again. I use Steve, lol some digitizing guy from here and I just tried a new guy. This file is with the new guy.
> 
> It won't let me me upload the dst file. Keeps coming with an error.


Try another digitizer and you will see a difference


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## Lunaticsamurai (Mar 17, 2013)

Speed is definitely too fast. What thread are you using, Madeira Polyneon is great, i wouldn't go as low as 500 but 800 would be good.
Needle plate under the hat as other have suggested and is it a new needle? Thread break basically happen when the needle gets too hot and the thread can't take it, or the stitch file/material is so dense that the needle struggle to punch through.


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## gardenhillemb (Oct 29, 2015)

You need to slow down your stitch rate to no more than 600 spm. Also, you need to adjust the feed rate to at least 10 on a Melco to sew hats (Melco Amayas use a feed system instead of tension knobs). Also on your outline, add a center stitch underlayment and check the density of the column. It should not be any denser than about 4 embroidery points. You should also check your bobbin tension.


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## ride22 (Aug 31, 2016)

What machine are you using? Also, I noticed you are in Indiana, what part of the state are you in?


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## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

I did re run the hat at 500 spm and only had 1 thread break, but it was pretty slow compared to 1200 spm 

Re-naming the file isn't working either.


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## gardenhillemb (Oct 29, 2015)

Just so you will know for next time, the Melco trainers and reps will tell you it's ok to run hats at 1200 spm but you really can't, especially on structured hats like you're doing.


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## oldstunt (Mar 22, 2008)

Hats are a different animal than flat embroidery. Everything Binki is telling you is on the money. Don't give up everything has a learning curve to it.


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## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

You have all been super helpful. I've completed 5 hats since slowing down the machine. It would take me a week to do 5 hats cause I'd get soooo frustrated after 1 I wouldn't want to do another. Thanks!


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## Lunaticsamurai (Mar 17, 2013)

TheJunkyard said:


> You have all been super helpful. I've completed 5 hats since slowing down the machine. It would take me a week to do 5 hats cause I'd get soooo frustrated after 1 I wouldn't want to do another. Thanks!


Embroidery is not an easy thing to do. It takes years of learning different materials, different machines and different software. Each is unique in its own right and they all act differently. There is a general rule of thumb but after that its knowing the machine you use. 

Don't give up.


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## seekeroftftruth (Jan 27, 2015)

Calm down junkyard!

One year isn't enough Experience to Drop
Embroidery as itself. Believe me. 
I'm doing this since nearly 5 years now and I'm still a ****in Rookie in my opinion. The 'needleprinter' Works completly different than a standard-printer for whatever Medium. I cryed so many nights about ****ty Results. But slowly, very slowly I get to know what is "embroiderable" and what should be easily printed.
Embroidery is ****ing insanity. My machine is some Kind of "Diva/Princess" in our Company. But its great to have her here. 
Don't give up the embroidery ****!


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

TheJunkyard said:


> I did re run the hat at 500 spm and only had 1 thread break, but it was pretty slow compared to 1200 spm
> 
> Re-naming the file isn't working either.


Yes, it is slow but you will find you can't run much at 1200spm and get good quality. We run between 650 and 850 for flats and 450-550 for hat on a 4 head. 

You might want to get 80/12 ball points for hats. Get the teflon coated ones, they will last longer and have less problems with sewing hats. 

Take a look at AllStitch Discount Embroidery Supplies for supplies.


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## 539162 (Jun 12, 2015)

For what it is worth and this is just my opinion...I have never really seen a Melco that runs great on hats when compared to other machines. When it comes to hats the Barudan is the king of the crop so yes the machine can play a role in how well a hat sews. I have seen many Tajimas and SWF as well as some of the other Chinese brands struggle heavily on hats. Most people may not be familiar with this but all the New Era hats (MLB,NFL,NHL,NBA,NCAA etc) are ran on Barudans.

I agree with the other suggestions given though. Try different needles, slow down the machine, make sure your hat design sews center out, make sure you can get the hat as close to the throat plate as possible. Don't give up though. I started embroidering when I was 18 and got thrown to the wolves. I messed up so much product the first year but eventually it started to come naturally the more I learned my machine and from what worked and what didn't because success is what happens after you survive all your mistakes.

Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently. I believe you have the tools you are looking for to accomplish this.


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## mtgraphix (Feb 25, 2014)

Junkyard I feel your pain intensely! I also have a Melco, it didn't come with the raised needle plate ( and I wasn't aware that there WAS one - until now, and I've been doing this about 7 yrs!) I had no training so I've had to punt, but I will tell you this:
I run hats at 650 max, make sure your presser foot is all the way down, turn off bobbin detection, turn up the thread feed to at least 5.....and the one thing that has made the biggest difference for me is using a little spray adhesive on my backing! I am assuming you have the same cap frame I have, make sure the area to be stitched is nice and tight so you don't get any flagging.
Good luck, I have some special names for my machine too - it's not just you! Don't lose heart!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

Do the the new Melco's have a raised needle plate for caps? I didn't think so but I could be wrong. Not all machines do. Some machines use a universal needle plate that works for both flats and caps. The original poster said he purchased a new machine about a year ago so if his machine uses a raised plate then it would have come with the machine.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

SunEmbroidery said:


> Do the the new Melco's have a raised needle plate for caps? I didn't think so but I could be wrong. Not all machines do. Some machines use a universal needle plate that works for both flats and caps. The original poster said he purchased a new machine about a year ago so if his machine uses a raised plate then it would have come with the machine.


Ugh! Is this their way to save money or is it a real solution? If it is a single needle plate I would definately go with 80/12 titaniums for caps.


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## edward1210 (Nov 7, 2009)

binki said:


> Ugh! Is this their way to save money or is it a real solution? If it is a single needle plate I would definately go with 80/12 titaniums for caps.


I new on embroidery too, but I believe that how the file has been digitized is a big factor, I have a ricoma, I did some hat with not problem


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## digitizingninjas (Aug 19, 2016)

edward1210 said:


> I new on embroidery too, but I believe that how the file has been digitized is a big factor, I have a ricoma, I did some hat with not problem


Digitizing may play important part in how soon and how easy your hats embroidery completed.


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## LTPEMB (Jul 10, 2015)

Digitizing and file are the #1 factor in how successfully you can complete a job. Everything else is secondary.


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## TheJunkyard (Jan 26, 2006)

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone. It made me feel a little better to know its okay to suck after only a year. I did have someone come to my store today and help me figure some stuff out. She's gonna come back in a couple week and we'll do it again. Its nice to be able to have a conversation about stuff. I finished an order I really needed to get out with her help.

Right now I'm embroidering my first backpack and so far so good.


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## Lunaticsamurai (Mar 17, 2013)

TheJunkyard said:


> Just wanted to say thanks to everyone. It made me feel a little better to know its okay to suck after only a year. I did have someone come to my store today and help me figure some stuff out. She's gonna come back in a couple week and we'll do it again. Its nice to be able to have a conversation about stuff. I finished an order I really needed to get out with her help.
> 
> Right now I'm embroidering my first backpack and so far so good.


Well done, looks good, stick with it.


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## Hotpuppy (Sep 21, 2016)

TheJunkyard said:


> Thanks for taking the time to respond.
> 
> Needles Nm 75/11 (no idea what that means, my trainer told me to get them)
> backing is just hat backing (I realize I sound stupid again my trainer told me what do by I have a whole roll of it.
> ...


Slow it down to 400 spm. No hat will play nice at full throttle. You have a problem called flagging where the material is jumping around and causing the thread to break. 

If 400 spm doesn't work, drop to 350. If it does work, go up to 450spm. You'll eventually find your sweet spot where the machine plays nice with *that* hat and *that* design.

Do not trust DesignShop (dumbshop) to auto-anything. Embroidery is "drawing with thread." and you need to treat it that way with texture and layering. DS is a good tool. Amaya is okay. I personally wouldn't buy another one, but maybe I'm just being critical? 

Check the hook timing and make sure there are no burrs on the hook. I was extremely picky on who could work on my 6 Amaya's. Some of the techs seemed incapable of handling a bag of pretzels, let alone making precision machine adjustments. That's my two cents of opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it.


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## wrkalot (Mar 2, 2011)

This all great advice. I had a terrible time with hats until I found a good digitizer. Made all the difference in the world. With a good file I can run 750-850 on hats.


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## digitizingninjas (Aug 19, 2016)

TheJunkyard said:


> Just wanted to say thanks to everyone. It made me feel a little better to know its okay to suck after only a year. I did have someone come to my store today and help me figure some stuff out. She's gonna come back in a couple week and we'll do it again. Its nice to be able to have a conversation about stuff. I finished an order I really needed to get out with her help.
> 
> Right now I'm embroidering my first backpack and so far so good.



That's great....


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

TheJunkyard said:


> Just wanted to say thanks to everyone. It made me feel a little better to know its okay to suck after only a year. I did have someone come to my store today and help me figure some stuff out. She's gonna come back in a couple week and we'll do it again. Its nice to be able to have a conversation about stuff. I finished an order I really needed to get out with her help.
> 
> Right now I'm embroidering my first backpack and so far so good.



Dude, get Mighty Hoops, you will be so much happier
Embroidery Hooping Devices, The New Hooping Device, HoopMaster, By Midwest Products


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## minimalist (Jan 30, 2015)

binki said:


> Yes, it is slow but you will find you can't run much at 1200spm and get good quality. We run between 650 and 850 for flats and 450-550 for hat on a 4 head.
> 
> You might want to get 80/12 ball points for hats. Get the teflon coated ones, they will last longer and have less problems with sewing hats.
> 
> Take a look at AllStitch Discount Embroidery Supplies for supplies.


I would never use ballpoints on a hat. You're sewing through 3 layers of material on the center seam and the ballpoint won't cut through that efficiently. I use 80/12 and 85/13 Gros Beckert needles. The 80/12 are titanium and the 85/13 are chrome since they don't make them in titanium.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

minimalist said:


> I would never use ballpoints on a hat. You're sewing through 3 layers of material on the center seam and the ballpoint won't cut through that efficiently. I use 80/12 and 85/13 Gros Beckert needles. The 80/12 are titanium and the 85/13 are chrome since they don't make them in titanium.


the sharps will cut brushed cotton and make it fray.


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## LTPEMB (Jul 10, 2015)

I use 75/11 BP if i can get away with it. But heavy duty Flexfit or Newera hats I will switch to sharps/


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## LTPEMB (Jul 10, 2015)

Hats are uniquely challenging for what you can and cannot do with them. I have had to do strange applique on New era and flexfit that would constantly cause missed stitches. I ended up redigitizing and editing the entire logo to sew out upwards only breaking the satin stitches up. which worked surprisingly.


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## Express D (Mar 21, 2014)

minimalist said:


> I would never use ballpoints on a hat. You're sewing through 3 layers of material on the center seam and the ballpoint won't cut through that efficiently. I use 80/12 and 85/13 Gros Beckert needles. The 80/12 are titanium and the 85/13 are chrome since they don't make them in titanium.


We use 80 groz as well and it works well.


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