# What is the Ideal price for t shirts



## pablosanchez495 (Nov 20, 2011)

I was wondering from experienced sellers. I am looking to target high schoolers and college students. What would the ideal price for a good quality t-shirt be. Thanks In advance


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

College students don't have much money. High Schoolers have mommies money. $25 if it has nice artwork. 

$10 for college students.


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## gorilladiver (Oct 25, 2011)

when I was in college there was a screen printing shop near the campus and about once a month they would put a large box out on the sidewalk full of their misprint shirts, for just 1 or 2 dollars each. Those were the shirts most everyone I knew was wearing. But everyone I knew were starving art students. Misprinted shirts were perfect for getting messy in the studio classes.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

so, basically, your target market is people with little or no money of their own?


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## AustinBoston17 (Mar 19, 2011)

If it's something like a streetwear brand I would say $20-$26, if it's something other than that of course go lower. 
I am in college, but when I was in high school kids would pay way too much for tshirts (I was making my own ) but those kids were into the skate/music/streetwear culture. I've noticed the same in college, but on a lesser scale. I guess it all depends on what kind of shirts you are selling. 

Some examples of streetwear shirts with s higher price tag would be 8103clothing.com or freshletes.com 
Hope I helped!


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

well, it depends on more than just the cloth and fabric (are they not the same thing?), lol. the method you use to make the image goes into the price, as does the design, and you probably want to factor in your marketing costs, if any. the style, colour, cut, weight, material, manufacturer.... 

a lot of people have a formula that they claim works for them, and that's great, but i've yet to find a formula that fits everyone's business needs. i think it's really important to remember that this is a volume business. if there's a magic number or target, i wish someone would share it with me! 

if you do your research you may arrive at a price that most places are charging for the same thing. i would try to stay competitive, and based on your costs, decide whether or not that profit is worth it to you. with the scant information provided, it's kind of hard to say because i don't know where you're at, your designs, what kind of shirt you want to use, your methods of putting an image on a shirt or how you plan to sell.


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## John Victor (Nov 23, 2011)

The price we can't say it depends on the material and the quality of the t-shirt...


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## nwnative (May 16, 2010)

Price your shirts so that you get most of the business you want. If everyone buys your shirts, you are probably priced to low. If nobody buys your shirts, you are priced too high. If most people buy your shirts but you loose just a few because you are "too high" you are priced just right.

It's a frustrating balancing act. I wish there was an easy answer but, alas, there is not.


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## chrisluke246 (Nov 25, 2011)

I think that price range of $20 to $25 will be good for High Schoolers as they got money from parents and all.... where as college student don't have such amounts so, price range from $10 to $15 will be good for them..... also the price will be depended on quality of the t-shirt and the brand.... so it will differ always......
--------------------

Designer Clothes


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## amandahansen (Nov 28, 2011)

John Victor said:


> The price we can't say it depends on the material and the quality of the t-shirt...


yup, agree with you !


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## Skinbus (Jul 2, 2007)

You didn't specify what method of printing you'll be doing, which for me would make a big difference due to production costs. In this economy I wouldn't go overboard with pricing, especially considering your target market. Schoolers aren't going to have the money to buy expensive shirts so if possible I'd go $18-$20 dollars, again depending on production costs. If necessary, you can raise prices as required but don't price yourself out of the market to start.


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## barkone (Feb 5, 2007)

it depends on the fabric, the people you are selling the t-shirt to,your investment. You can charge less at the beginning and raise your prices a little more as you consolidate your clientele. And of course the quality of your designs matter as well, I think that is one of the most important things. But irrespective of your designs they should fit the public you're aiming for.


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## barkone (Feb 5, 2007)

chrisluke246 said:


> I think that price range of $20 to $25 will be good for High Schoolers as they got money from parents and all.... where as college student don't have such amounts so, price range from $10 to $15 will be good for them..... also the price will be depended on quality of the t-shirt and the brand.... so it will differ always......
> --------------------
> 
> Designer Clothes


that's about right. even if they don't have their own money, they are more likely to pay 35 than 15, parents give them the money, If they were to work for those money maybe they would be inclined to buy something else.


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## soCALkid (Aug 16, 2011)

ryan barker said:


> so, basically, your target market is people with little or no money of their own?


Don't be foolish, most companies target customers are just that. Look at Walmart, the biggest problem with start-up clothing companies is that they only want "rich people" or "good looking" people wearing their clothes, they completely forget about money. If that's the case, you shouldn't be in the T-shirt business, matter of fact, you shouldn't be in any business.


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## soCALkid (Aug 16, 2011)

I print my own 1 color AAA t-shirts AND can afford to sell them at (as low as 5 dollars a shirt at 2 dollar profit) or 10 dollars (regular pricing) and 7 dollars profit (2-8 color obviously go for higher). Think of it this way, if a customer is going to walk away because he wants a shirt for 5 dollars and you're pricing is 10 dollars, sell it to him for 5 dollars. Most people think it's losing 5 dollars, but in reality it's making 2 dollars. Profit is Profit. I've had some designs for over 6 years and I still sell them at shows, if you have a design that people like, then they will buy it.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

for starters, i think it was obvious i was joking. and i've been in business for over six years now, thanks. lastly, your business method is nothing more than a race to the bottom, have fun with that.


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## mikelmorgan (Nov 1, 2008)

I think $100 to $200 per shirt is a good price


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

i don't mind coming down from $200 to $100. that had better be one helluva nice shirt, tho. 

still, i'm not a flea market or a pawn shop. my prices are competitive and that's that and i don't work for minimum wage just to feel good about myself for having sold an item. good gravy, if nothing else, if my shirt was ten bucks and someone offered five, i'd split the difference. then again, $7.50 is probably where i'd have started with and would stick to that price. if they want to negotiate, go to a used car lot. if someone likes it enough, they'll come up with that whopping $2.50. if not, i reckon life goes on....


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

btw, there's an actual model behind that way of thinking, and it's becoming more prevalent in certain businesses, i've noticed. granted, that model isn't necessarily applicable to selling shirts, but then again it is to a certain extent... particularly if you're not stuck doing business like grandpa used to. that is to say, a lot of businesses are either leaning to the race to be the cheapest, or they're pricing at where it should be or even a little higher to avoid extra labour and production costs ('profits' can be better if you don't account for your time, but the margins can be better ~ personally, i don't like selling retail merchandise at near wholesale prices). the latter finds many ways to justify the higher price, some legit, some a little shady.


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## pablosanchez495 (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for your advice I really appreciate it. However, going off of the conversation about lowest price am I right to assume that pricing your shirts super low devalues your brand. I know personally if I see a shirt priced at seven dollars I believe it is not as good and an inferior brand. Is this a correct assumption?


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## CannibalSam (Oct 20, 2011)

One thing I hate is over-the-top pricing. $20 per shirt is as high as I'll go for a t-shirt. Any pricier and I think that the designer/owner is being a creep. I don't want to name any names, nor am I going to, but I've seen some indie shirt stores that sell shirts way above $15+ and it kills me. Not only does it deter me from buying that specific shirt, but it makes me not really want to buy from them in general. Premium, limited shirts, for a low price. Please, please please. I beseech you. DO NOT sell shirts above $20. 

I'll stop ranting now, but as a poor ex-college student, I hate high prices on t-shirts.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I guess you and I will have to buy from someone else Cannabal. I know many people that charge $35 and up for some t-shirts. They still have plenty of customers.


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## pablosanchez495 (Nov 20, 2011)

CannibalSam said:


> One thing I hate is over-the-top pricing. $20 per shirt is as high as I'll go for a t-shirt. Any pricier and I think that the designer/owner is being a creep. I don't want to name any names, nor am I going to, but I've seen some indie shirt stores that sell shirts way above $15+ and it kills me. Not only does it deter me from buying that specific shirt, but it makes me not really want to buy from them in general. Premium, limited shirts, for a low price. Please, please please. I beseech you. DO NOT sell shirts above $20.
> 
> I'll stop ranting now, but as a poor ex-college student, I hate high prices on t-shirts.


Im not saying ridiculously expensive like more than 20 dollars im just saying seven dollars is a little low if a brand is what your looking for, or maybe Im completely wrong. From the comments I have seen though it seems like between like 15 and 20 dollars is ideal


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

there are some shirts i'd love even at $22, but they're very cool.  tons of design and colour. 

i agree, i see something that cheap and i think 'what's wrong with it? does no one want them?' five to seven bucks is about what you expect from a flea market t-shirt with a dumb saying on it. no design, you're just buying a joke. and that's fine, but that doesn't say anything good about the overall quality of the shirt.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

You know Ryan, this is the the entire United States. So many people are letting my cousins come and make their products, repair the cars, computers, design websites, mow their grass etc. 

Everyone's including American Apparel, have replaced us with cheap cheap labor. Problem is, if you really think about it. What happen to their countries? Why did they leave home to come here and work for nothing?

One, we purchase everything, and want it dirt cheap. Two, their countries no longer have any money. Is it due to everyone leaving or because everyone hired the lowest bidder, and couldn't stay in business. 

Lastly, how many of us are complaining, and yet we buy the cheapest cars, trucks, homes built by the lowest bidder, etc., and why can't we build something and not charge as much? We know it's really cause we want to make a larger profit. 

If we bought all american products, and made less of a profit or compete with things made elsewhere or close to it, how much do we really need anyways?


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

paul, i have no idea what the hell you're talking about, lol. my last comment was in regards to cheap t-shirts with silly phrases on them that you'd find at flea markets for five bucks and how much i'm willing to pay for a t-shirt that i'm comfortable with. how is that being anti-capitalism/american? FYI, the shirts i was talking about for $22 are produced in colorado and sold through distributorships. 

further, cheap labour isn't the only reason companies go overseas to manufacture product, there're also imbalanced trade agreements (as with china) and huge corporate tax differences. 

we charge what we charge partially as a result of the first rule of capitalism, supply and demand. in the case of carmakers, the real money isn't in the price of the car, it's in the financing and service contracts. 

CEOs have an obligation to make as much money for their shareholders as possible, so cutting profits isn't exactly what they're hired to do. when you just cut profits, you cut your margins, which isn't a terrific blast in the face to you or i on average, but when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of items, those margins because pretty important because as you sell more to make less profit, you have even more costs and regulations to deal with. and even were all that okay for you and i, that's only because we own our businesses ~ tell your shareholders why they're not making as much money yet have to work your people tons of overtime and see how much sympathy you get. 

do you want to tell your employees they have to make less money? i don't. companies that ask of their employees to take less salary and benefits usually are just prolonging the inevitable. and this is a situation you'd *willingly* put yourself in? 

i never asked for globalization. were it up to me i'd repeal nafta and gatt tomorrow, always thought it was a *terrible* idea to begin with. still, there it is, so new ways have to be found to deal with it. 

if you're referring to illegal immigrants working, that solution is easy. 

the lowest bidder doesn't mean the best quality, obviously. but, if people want very disposable merchandise, wal*mart is usually pretty close. i don't shop there, and i have many, many reasons why. that said, that doesn't preclude me from being a bargain shopper, a savvy shopper, or an anti-american shopper, all it means is i know what i'm willing to pay for something. some things are over-priced even by american made standards.


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## sbelles (Jul 27, 2011)

triple cost of shirt plus cost of vinyl.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

the highest price you can possibly charge. Remember, it is not illegal or immoral to make money. Our school t's run from $9 up to $16 for bulk orders and I have seen them online for one-offs for up to $35/each but forget about that, do hoodies. You can get up to $60 each for them. While your % margin may not change, your $ margin will go up by a ton.


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## mountainman1938 (Sep 3, 2010)

Easy to com to a price if you are outsourcing custom transfers. If all you have is a heat press your overhead is nil. Double your cost and you will make money and be competitive. Buy gang sheets for numbers and charge a fair price to apply numbers. ($1.00 each number is good)


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## Austin300 (May 24, 2009)

And how much do people pay for a bottle of water?



It is all a matter of perspective and how you package and sell your product.
You didn't invent the T-shirt or the material that it is made of. It is what
YOU do with that T-shirt and what YOU do with your marketing to make
it the best damn T-shirt for your potential buyers.



It is after all just ... ... Water.


Desani... IS TAP WATER.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

true, it's tap water, but it's been filtered and some minerals added, so inasfar as purity goes, it's probably purer than water directly from the tap. you're right, though, it was all in the marketing. even the name was designed to convey pureness and freshness. but, that's a coke product, who have no lack of resources available. indeed, back in the day when i was a young buck, coca cola shirts were hot. 

it's a great example of how marketing works. we should all be so lucky as to have the marketing wherewithal a company like coke has! to be honest, it yet another failing of general motors to not market their products past and present on shirts. if coke can do it, why couldn't these other mega-billion dollar companies?  now all you have to do is convince GM to let you print their shirts....


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## mrfunone (Oct 4, 2010)

The price is whatever people will pay you for your product.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

mrfunone said:


> The price is whatever people will pay you for your product.


Obviously.

But it doesn't really work that way in the real world. You can't just put your product on the shelf with a blank price tag and let people choose what they want to pay. Sellers need to establish an exact price point. And if it's too high, you won't sell any. If it's too low, you will sell a bunch... but in the long run, will be leaving profit in your customer's pocket.


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## stevem98 (Mar 2, 2006)

ask yourself, what would I pay for this shirt, often people starting a line way overvalue their shirts and try to sell gildan or hanes tees for $25-30. What are similar brands selling their shirts for? If you are not retagging the shirts I wouldnt expect to get more then 10-15 per shirt. good luck


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

good point about retagging.


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## Violent_J (Mar 8, 2010)

Mine are sold for $18.99 with free shipping.


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## nwnative (May 16, 2010)

We typically sell our sweatshirts for the retail price of the garment +$10. T's sell for anywhere from $12 for white to $25 for special prints and one of a kind. People seem happy with that price and think it's reasonable. We don't offer free shipping and typically #don't charge enough" for artwork we do. We do not offer quantity discounts and do not require a setup fee.


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## nwnative (May 16, 2010)

Just another thought...

Some people have "their own line" of T's that are something unique and a real work of art. Have you ever looked at prices for "original" art? Typically several dollars above the routine runs of hundreds or thousands. People are willing to pay for something that "speaks" to them, is unique and well done. If you are trying to sell knock off prints that don't look professional and are the same old style why should you charge top dollar?


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## sharper (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm not sure if someone already answered with what I'm about to say, but I don't think I saw this response. For your tees, a lot of it depends on if you're going to directly retail only (like on your website) or if you're going for wholesale distribution as well. If you want to do both, then you need to make sure that your retail price on your website is double what you want to charge a wholesaler. For example, if your tee costs you $5 to make all in (tee, printing, hang tags, shipping, packaging), you'll want to wholesale that tee for $10 and charge $20 on your website. If you retail on your website too low, then when you get a wholesale order, they'll expect to only pay half of that.

I also wanted to chime in on the pricing of tshirts in general. I think if you use a higher quality shirt, then you should be able to get a fair price for that. We are, after all, in business to make money.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

You have supply and demand. Sometimes you can create the demand by limiting the supply - on something that people want. A $4 shirt can go for much more, if the right person is wearing it. I try to get folks to create their own ideas and wear those. By doing this they are paying more I like that part, and not everyone is wearing it - they like that.


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## Burr (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks some of you for convoluting this good thread with ideology about capitalism and other nonsense. Thats what we're here to read about.

I agree with the sentiment about charging roughly 20, wholesaling for 10ish. I think for snarky/clever/good designs, you can charge up to 24.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

'Thanks some of you for convoluting this good thread with ideology about capitalism and other nonsense. Thats what we're here to read about.' ~ hey, no problem, it was my pleasure.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Some do not understand that it is by discussion new ideas are Bourne. At times you have to go out far to focus in. Forums are convolution heavens. What works in one region might not work for others. Would you ever think about drinking hot water? Probably not but then imagine being on a convoy in 130 deg weather your next rest stop is 2 hours away as far as you can see is nothing but sand, a bottle of water, and your lunch in a brown plastic wrapping packed 2 years ago. I can assure at that juncture in time - you would imagine that you were feasting on fine wine and a 4 course meal. Now how is that for convoluting.


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## sharper (Jul 8, 2009)

Speaking of supply and demand, not only is the pricing an important issue, but how much inventory you print or are willing to print. I have seen some indie brands only print their shirts in certain quantities, at a bit of a higher retail ($25 to $30) and then offer those shirts while supplies last. I think they retire each design as they sell out of stock. I think this is an interesting concept to spark demand, but if you have funny or good designs, don't you want them to last?


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Look at you sharper trying to bring back the convoluted - LOL - You add demand by limiting the supply and not flooding the market. If the market is flooded then no need to rush out and buy because it will be there when you need it. that is why walmart stuff is so cheap - they are makng money by moving volumes. I prefer to move less more. Put 1 of anything on your garment and see if it draws more attentiong.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

one thing that has devastated the collectible market is 'limited editions.' from 'limited edition' star wars busts to 'limited edition' mountain dew bottles and everything in between, the concept of limiting production of a *shirt* not only doesn't work in my mind, it's anti-productive *if* the producer is actually even limiting said production that's completely unverifyable. by its very nature capitalism dictates limited production ~ once people stop buying it, you don't sell it anymore, right? lol. 

too, shirts aren't movie posters. shirts aren't cigar boxes. shirts aren't even postcards. that is, people rarely consider tee shirts as collectible, and those that do probably collect vintage clothing. there's simply not the collector base there to limit production, imo. it's not as if tee shirts are a rare commodity, and those 'antique' tees are easily and cheaply recreated... if the market is there.

so, a limited production tee shirt just doesn't make any sense in my mind, particularly if you think it will help create demand. perhaps if it was a limited production representing an event that people will still care about ten years from now, *maybe*, but just some design from some guy on the internet with his own brand? i don't see it. 

those indie brands that only print in limited supplies would have to somehow justify that decision. a limited printing of an exclusive piece of art by a well-known artist? okay, that's cool. but, i certainly am *not* going to pay $5 extra for something just because the production is being made only in a randomly devised quantity. actually, imo it's all very pretentious to think that your *shirt* will appreciate in value for some reason, which is the reason why 'limited editions' exist in the first place, to keep quantities low as not to flood the market thereby giving the *collectible* a basis for retaining its value (rarity is intregral to value, obviously). 

'while supplies last' only works with certain products, and typically that's associated with them having a sale to make room for new stock/get rid of old stuff, so from even that perspective it doesn't make sense. 

and when you have these special limited editions, they're usually accompanied with a numbered certificate of authenticity. 

all for a shirt that may or may not have armpit stains by the time it's worth something, which is likely to be never anyway? i mean, what are you going to do, frame your tee shirt and put it on the wall? come on, get real, lol. 

again in my opinion, saying a t-shirt is limited edition and using that as some sort of reasoning for jacking up the price is purely ridiculous to me. if you want to charge five bucks more for a shirt, just charge it, don't pretend that i'm somehow making an investment. frankly, it's insulting.


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## sharper (Jul 8, 2009)

To @idonaldson  it is somewhat convoluted, but still deals with pricing and selling strategy, right?? @ryan barker - I agree with you about the tees not increasing in value, etc. I have seen some indie brands where this really seems to work! They announce a new design, put it up on their site and then when it sells out, that's the end of that design. They are creating their own demand, in a way, but people have to want those designs in the first place (and they do from what I've seen). Our brand, on the other hand, has designs that we keep and will always be a part of our line up. I just wondered if anyone else has noticed this trend and what they thought.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

success is relative, eh? while i can't see why someone would do limited editions in the vast majority of cases, that's also not saying that doing that has any bearing whatsoever on sales. in other words, just because you sell only so many of one design shouldn't imply that that's why you're selling them, but to some people it does. if they didn't have limited editions, would they still sell out? maybe, maybe not, but i'm guessing they would sell just as many. and if their design was so popular, i'd assume that they could sell a lot more, and why wouldn't you do that if given the chance? having limited edition shirts as a business strategy doesn't make sense to me other than suckering people out of a couple extra bucks, giving the illusion that they had better jump on the deal now before it's too late. 

and that's the strategy here when you get right down to it, right? instilling some sense of urgency to buy, suggesting that if you wait another week then that shirt may not be produced any more? that these shirts are so hot that they won't last long, and if you want one you'll have to pony up a little more cashola to be one of the privileged few what own one? 

sure, after awhile you probably will retire a design once it's been played out, then you move on to something new. or maybe they know how many shirts they're likely to sell and just make that their production run and tack on the 'buy it while you still can!' strategy and charge a bit more just because? 

dunno. i'd have actually see several of these sites to get a real flavour for what they're doing, to see if what they're doing is somehow special or if they're just applying a cheesy sales gimmick. i mean, if i had a new design and told you that i'm only making 250 shirts and they sell out usually in two weeks, it's not as if you can argue what i said, lol. of course, that would be fraud (or dishonest at the very least), but what are you going to do about it? call the tee shirt police based on a hunch? contact the united screen printers association of america local 775? nah, you're going to give me the benefit of the doubt based on the rocking web site i run out of my spare bedroom, and if i say i've sold 250 shirts in ten seconds, most people will believe it. it would actually be a very interesting psychological experiment to do if someone had the time and money.

if you get a minute, drop some links if you don't mind. i'm curious to check them out. and, hey, if they're charging more for it, that's germaine to the topic, too. wouldn't want this subject to get derailed, after all....


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## sharper (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok, @ryan barker I found a couple of examples, I couldn't remember everywhere I had seen this done. The pricing is actually lower than I remembered, but on a few of these, the shirts are on sale. They will specify "only 40 being printed" in a few cases...

http://bloodypulpbooks.com/store/t-shirts/
Loveless City - Shop
"What are you grateful for?" T-Shirt Organic Cotton/Bamboo Men's & Women's We are Discontinuing This Item -- Limited Supply/Sizes Left!!!! - Clothing and Accessories

Those are a few that I found quickly. I wish I had saved some of the other brands who have used this strategy. It seems like I usually see a tweet saying something like 'get them now, we're only printing 20". We've said limited quantity when we're having a sale too, simply because we're changing the shirt in some way, or won't be printing on that same color any longer but it didn't do anything for our sales in truth.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

Man I cannot keep up - you guys have me laughing - go get him @sharper thanks for teaching me that trick. @ryan barker the examples are out there you just need something people want - I am sure my stuff should not be limited and if there any limits it will be a limit to how many I will give away.


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## designs by amir (Feb 1, 2012)

As Criag would like to say..."There are need to have...And" I've got to have! If you follow 3 keys then you can ask what price you want. !# Great Graphics is the key #2 is unique placement of the Great graphics 3# a combination of mix print media i. e. Screen printing, rinestones, and or applique. Those 3 items will get you more money than you think. If your designs stand out in a crowd, you can get way more than $10.00 each.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

I trying to produce shirts for both audiences. I am not selling bling shirts for under $20. I would change quality of shirt and vinyl for the cheaper price. I know for a fact people do not like the raising of prices, so to think you can gradually raise is setup for failure. Start higher and have a sale folks do like thinking they are getting a bargain.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

thanks for the links, sharper. this is my take on what i see:

bloody books is a small art house book publisher, not necessarily a screen printer. i think the shirts exist to promote the books than anything. the designs are cool, and for $20 i think that's probably a fair price. i'm guessing they got some shirts printed up and they're just sitting in a drawer somewhere. in this case, 'limited supply' probably means they bought a minimum number of shirt from the screen printer. like, i said, though, they're selling their books: the shirts are secondary. indeed, the designs on the shirts are designs *for* the book covers.

loveless city is all about the shirts. here's a quote from one of their shirt pages: "Read between the lines! Our most sought after shirt to date. Only 40 will be available for sale, get yours while supplies last!" at the bottom it says sold out. to, unless you want to commit fraud or just lie to your customers, we can never again buy this shirt. shucks. and it was on sale, too, for $15. in fact, *everything* is on sale. odd, also, is that for one shirt they said they leave the standard AA sewn tag in. so, not only was their most popular shirt on sale (and why would you do that? oh, yeah, some people don't know what the hell they're doing!), now it's sold out and can't/won't be made again, but they leave the tag in to boot? wow. but, wait, there's more. on one page that has their very first design: "All LovelessCity shirts have custom tags and are manufactured and printed in the USA." well, that's not true, is it? "These shirts come with the standard American Apparel tags sewn into them." one design is limited to 50. not sold out. not all of their shirts boast 'limited supply,' and most of those that do are limited to 40 shirts, and not all of them are sold out. if i were to return in three months and see those shirts still haven't sold out, i would probably surmise that no one is wearing them, so why should i? shirts seem to range from $8-$15.

grateful is easy, they're discontinuing the shirt and are just running out their stock. it's a cotton/bamboo shirt for $21 being sold by corporate hippies, it seems. if there are any burning questions you have about organic cotton, you'll find your answers here. 

so, we have what amounts to promotional shirts for a book publisher, shirts from a site that smacks of desperation and gimmickry, and a discontinued shirt. we can see why the supplies are limited for the bookends here, but the middle one appears to be throwing every tactic they can at it with varying success. too, i can't attest to how long those designs have been around: to sell out of a 40 shirt run in a week would be impressive. if it took six months, meh. can't sell 40 shirts in a year, and a red flag goes up all things considering.

k, after looking at their blog, the sold out shirts has been out since august, 2011. in fact, that was their last blog entry, introducing their new line. hm, that's not a good sign, is it? lol. that they can supposedly sell out of at least two shirts in six months isn't awful, but no new entries *for a fledgling company* doesn't look good, like they've given up already or something. check out their blog for marketing interns, it cracked me up. not sure what's funnier, loveless city thinking someone would actually do this, or the idea that someone out there would be stupid enough to do it for them. 

sharper, you found some examples and i thank you for doing that.  as i suspected, however, two of the three sites offered limited supplies for pretty obvious reasons, and the third should rename themselves 'clueless city' because now they can't even sell their most popular designs! way to go, loveless! after having just shot yourself in the foot, may i rub some salt in the wound for ya? the big sillies. as for your limited supplies, sharper, i can see the reasoning behind it ~ you have what amounts to a close-out sale. but, if someone came up and said 'i'll take a thousand,' you betcha you'd print 'em!

'quantities limited' automatically piques my interest, but not in a good way when it comes to tee shirt sites. off the top of my head i begin to think they they only ordered x amount of plastisol transfers, or they limit supplies because that's how many they have to order from the printer to get a price break. 

you further don't put everything you offer on sale because you're doing great. you have sales for specific reasons. and when everything you have goes on sale, that's usually indicative of a total liquidation or just bad marketing. in loveless' case it's too bad because i wasn't opposed to their designs at all, the models were great, well photographed, the site had a few issues but nothing dramatic (except when i clicked on a shirt, i had to scroll up to see it), and overall wasn't that bad. the about us turned me off, but oh well. to me, though, it seems like they admitted defeat right out of the gate. that's weird, too, as i thought their shirts were appropriately priced and didn't need all the 'on sale' garbage. as an aside, they need to drop a blog entry to show people that they're still in business. even if it's just a half-eaten plate of breakfast you swirled around into some design, that's some indication that you're still playing the game, no?


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## sharper (Jul 8, 2009)

@ryan barker Thank you so much for the in-depth analysis! I feel you're spot on with your observations. It also reinforces the need to keep working at it, not let things lag, like the blog, etc. Sometimes, when I'm checking out other brands, I'm thinking "does this really work? What are their keys to success?" It seems that the keys are as always: a unique brand or idea, quality, good pricing and authenticity.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

all that is relative, too. stuff with a high price doesn't necessarily mean it's made better (it probably is, but that's just an assumption people make), it's just marketed differently. your market research determines what your price is, but you have to be mindful of your competitors. i bet most of us more or less look to other sites with comparable fare and try to be in that range. 

you're right to question if something works! just because you see it quite often doesn't mean it's working out for them at all, it just may that they've not done any market research, either (which is most likely the case anyway), and are just winging it, copying what they *think* works for other people, and never stopping to wonder *if* it works. it's like when people use web templates and do nothing more than facebook and twitter, then wonder why they don't have more sales. gee, i wonder. *rolls eyes* 

so pricing your shirt is very important. more importantly is pricing it *right*. by looking at loveless city's site, you wouldn't pay more than what they're asking. while the site itself is moderately adequate, it doesn't scream 'total package!' that said, even were it done professionally from top to bottom, you probably still wouldn't pay more than what they're already asking. shellacking pressboard only gets you so far, ya know? 

if you have other samples, i'd be happy to look at them. it's kinda fun to read between the lines on these things and try to surmise what's going on with them. 

so, what's the ideal price for a shirt? your market dictates that, along with the style, quality and design. it's why there's a vast difference between a kitty cat t-shirt printed on jerzees for sale for $5 at the flea market that you can practically see through and that $50 fitted and highly designed shirt made from ringspun cotton that demands attention.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Ryan, wow, you keep writing those long books. Lol. 

What about all those furnature stores that keep going out of business. Seems like they open, all the signs go up, Going Out of Business. They just opened, how can they go out of business? 

I've come up with a different product, non related to t-shirts, and just can't close. Everyone sayd, wow, what a great product, and great price. They just haven't bought. 

I'm going to add, 3 left of this product, and 2 left of this other one. See if it works. Maybe I'll say, Going out of Business sale! Hurry, Hurry, Hurry.


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

I am going to try that one - going out of business and only so many left - everyone is interested but have short arms and low pockets.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

i used to enjoy writing. were i to get back to it, i'd start up with screenplays. a lot of my designs, such as they are, try to tell a story. i know it's not the in thing, but it's fun for me to think on. right now i play around with fake horror movie posters, been doing a little research on them lately, but i just wish i was a good artist.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ryan barker said:


> right now i play around with fake horror movie posters, been doing a little research on them lately


Funny that you mention that. I've been thinking of ideas along those lines. Fake movie posters, fake video game titles, fake sports teams and other stuff along those lines.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

make me an offer i can't refuse.  if i had the time, artistic ability and money for a top notch web site, this is what i had in mind:

i would make up these fake horror movie poster shirts and add a 'plaque' somewhere on it, more just a white slab. i'd go to conventions and have the 'stars' sign them on the plaque area (assuming i find a combination of marker that works with the plastisol ink, that part is up in the air right now). then, i might put that shirt up for auction on ebay for charity, or put a nice price on it on the site, again for charity. i think people like to spend a few extra bucks for a good cause, it could be a twist on a normal t-shirt site, and there's some cross-promotional avenues i think i could go down. of course, it would include sci-fi, too, but i haven't been researching those kinds of designs, really. 

that was my initial idea, at any rate. probably beats hanging out in bars. 

i like the fake video game idea a lot. and it's funny that you mentioned that, too, because the other day a sci-fi design sprang to mind and as i sketched out some lettering it reminded me of atari art on the old video cart boxes, which just screams late 70's/early 80's. then i thought about that movie, 'logan's run,' and i had to chuckle to myself. good movie. bad hairstyles, though. except for farrah. man, could that girl rock feathered hair....


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Sounds like a pretty good idea. I've been really into designing vintage, retro type stuff lately. So I think the movie poster concept is sweet.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

but, will people buy it, that's the question?


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

Depends on how and where you're selling it...


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## Shokeapparel (Jan 25, 2012)

I think $20 to $30 is the most I'll pay.

Companies selling China tees for $40-$60 with just basic graphics is a joke.

Most of the time your paying for the brand name.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

agreed. you can find amazing graphics on tees for under $25, easy. if someone wants to wear some $60 shirt, i'd say they want you to know it's a $60 shirt, and that's a factor as to why they wear it. kinda like a status symbol.


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