# Mug Press Help



## JonathonLobb (Aug 23, 2013)

Hello, Recently we purchased a mug press and we have an order for mugs. The problem is that every time we try, The design prints off completely fine (using Photoshop). The temperature we use is 180 C/F and the timer at about 150 seconds. Once the mug is finished in the press, the colour prints out perfect (sometimes dark) But the black is the worst. The black comes out like it's burned because it comes out redish or greenish colour. We don't know why this is. We tried changing the temperature and time but does nothing it seems.
Also it sometimes leaves smudges or burn marks around the design too, again, no idea why. Some help would be VERY appreciated! Thank you! 

Basically:
Timer : 150 Secs
Heat: 180 c/f
Software: Photoshop
Not sure what brand the mugs are
The Mug press is a DL8000
Printer is an Epson Stylus SX215
Problems: Black seems burned and smudged yet colour is fine most of the time but sometimes a bit darker than expected.


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## CrazyDog (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm only very new to sublimation and I had a similar problem with blacks coming out very saturated and blurry as though too much ink was going down. I was using a mug wrap and oven, and time or temp made no difference. In the end I just lightened my images up manually before print (they look a little washed out on screen) and now I have no problems.
I didn't have the same problem with green or burnt looking blacks but it may be worth a try for you.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

JonathonLobb said:


> But the black is the worst. The black comes out like it's burned because it comes out redish or greenish colour. We don't know why this is. We tried changing the temperature and time but does nothing it seems.


It's most likely not the temp. Look at your artwork in photoshop using the eye dropper tool. What is your black composed of?

Try to find out what the best rich black is for your combinations of inks and icc profile.

When I see this on some of my consulting clients systems they often have a color that looks black on the screen but is not black at all. Something like 89/92/94/13. That's a color with only 13% black in it! But, if you punch that into photoshop it will look black on the screen.

In theory you shouldn't even need black ink in a process color system, but in practice all of the CMY inks have imperfections and sublimation inks only compound this problem. If you print a color of 100/100/100/0 what color is it? Depending on your sublimation inks it is going to be a greenish brown color.

This is why we use K in process color. Rather than use the CMY inks to poorly make black we use a black spot color to ensure its correct.

Go through your artwork and make sure the black areas are closer to 20/20/20/100 and try it again.


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## SublimatorToo (Jan 15, 2009)

Black turning out brown is over cooked. Black turning out green is under cooked.

In each case, close but you don't win the cigar.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

headfirst said:


> It's most likely not the temp. Look at your artwork in photoshop using the eye dropper tool. What is your black composed of?
> 
> Try to find out what the best rich black is for your combinations of inks and icc profile.
> 
> ...


I'm getting a very good CMY black on anything I do ... 

http://www.mgparrish.com/wf1100_target_on_poly.jpg

but to your point, best way to narrow down if a true process CMY black profile issue (or not) is to print on something simpler than a mug and not as easily over/undercooked first to evaluate the ink/profile capability. How or are you able to force "K" on pure RGB bitmaps? Can you do this thru a RIP? I have small format and use the printer driver only.


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## mmoguls (Mar 9, 2009)

When I started out doing mugs, I had all the same problems you're having. I blamed the art, the printer settings, but in the end all my issues were caused by technique and used mug presses. But be sure that the profiles and settings in your printer are absolutely correct for your sublimation products. The profile is CRITICAL for accurate color rendition and it will still vary from what you expect when printing on anything else but mugs...

My mug press temps were inconsistent and inaccurate. Some mugs were over-cooked (black turns to brown). If you find the paper is really burned on the outer edges, this is a big clue. On the other hand, when you drop them in the bucket of water to cool (you are doing that, right?) they should REALLY sizzle! or they are too cool. Browned edges on the paper are the norm.

The biggest argument between me and my business associate was over the peel. He felt that the cup should be put in the water, then the paper peeled afterwards, I wanted to peel before the quench. Turns out he was right! The hot peel caused smudges as the paper would slide across the hot mug and leave marks. This can also happen because your paper is not "tight as a drum" on the cup to begin with, you'll see it as a smudge or ghosting of the image.

I found out the hard way that you NEVER turn on a press without a mug in it, and you turn it off without leaving a mug in it to cool down. The heat elements were ruined in both of my used presses by this. They became inaccurate and unable to hold proper temps. The key on this part is to get the cup up to your preset temp, and then hold that temp for the correct period of time ( follow your manufacturers instructions and fine tune it from there). You must ALWAYS go through a cycle with your "warm up cups" prior to beginning a cook cycle with your real products.

I wish someone had told me all this when I was starting out!

hope this helps you,

dANNY8bALL
www.SanJoseMugs.com






JonathonLobb said:


> Hello, Recently we purchased a mug press and we have an order for mugs. The problem is that every time we try, The design prints off completely fine (using Photoshop). The temperature we use is 180 C/F and the timer at about 150 seconds. Once the mug is finished in the press, the colour prints out perfect (sometimes dark) But the black is the worst. The black comes out like it's burned because it comes out redish or greenish colour. We don't know why this is. We tried changing the temperature and time but does nothing it seems.
> Also it sometimes leaves smudges or burn marks around the design too, again, no idea why. Some help would be VERY appreciated! Thank you!
> 
> Basically:
> ...


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## WindoraBug (May 29, 2013)

There's many opinions in this area, and you can easily be misled. Every ink, with every profile, and printer, and product, and press, and time and temp cause variables. Heed advice but don't follow blindly. Most is footwork and gearing your system to work the way you need it. It is an art. 

I produce 100-200 sublimation products a day, and remove transfer right away, and don't have buckets of water around. We let them cool naturally on a rack. We have great colors and vivid photo results and may get a ghosting 1-3 times a week. 

As well we have a few mug presses and never start with a mug in them , or do dry runs before production starts. Never had a problem and have had the presses for years running the above volumes mentioned. 

I'm sure this gentleman may have some clout with a different press, or maybe his mugs or paper or ink really needs to be dunked. But this also backs my earlier statements up, find out what is best for you on your system by doing the time with it. There's no magic answer most of the time.


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## mmoguls (Mar 9, 2009)

Actually WidoraBug, I offered my post as advise to help the person who posted. These things work for me, and I advised him to TRY it and see if thier situation improved. It's frustrating when it's not working, and I hoped that trying what I do might put them on the path to making it all work out for them. An art it's not, we're putting pretty pictures on mugs here... and hoping to produce a consistent product. 

To clarify, the instructions that came with my new mug presses clearly state to never turn on the units without a mug in place. the dunking process we learned from a video on a sub website. I'm not just making it up, we did research to solve problems similar to what the original poster is having, they worked for us, I was hoping it would for them also.

Not sure how you've helped the poster here, they have a problem they are trying to resolve. All you've done is put me down and implied what I do is bunk. Your advise will likely stop them from trying my ideas as you've basically said they are no good.

Please, if you have the solution, let us in on it. I'm just trying to help the person who originally posted for pete's sake. We know there is no "magic answer", but if you try nothing, then nothing will change, right?




WindoraBug said:


> There's many opinions in this area, and you can easily be misled. Every ink, with every profile, and printer, and product, and press, and time and temp cause variables. Heed advice but don't follow blindly. Most is footwork and gearing your system to work the way you need it. It is an art.
> 
> I produce 100-200 sublimation products a day, and remove transfer right away, and don't have buckets of water around. We let them cool naturally on a rack. We have great colors and vivid photo results and may get a ghosting 1-3 times a week.
> 
> ...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mmoguls said:


> Actually WidoraBug, I offered my post as advise to help the person who posted. These things work for me, and I advised him to TRY it and see if thier situation improved. It's frustrating when it's not working, and I hoped that trying what I do might put them on the path to making it all work out for them. An art it's not, we're putting pretty pictures on mugs here... and hoping to produce a consistent product.
> 
> To clarify, the instructions that came with my new mug presses clearly state to never turn on the units without a mug in place. the dunking process we learned from a video on a sub website. I'm not just making it up, we did research to solve problems similar to what the original poster is having, they worked for us, I was hoping it would for them also.
> 
> ...


One thing about putting a mug in the press and keeping it in the press ... this will keep the platen from being closed fully and damage the heat platen, especially a warm heat platen. 

My first mug press I had to replace the platen very soon after I got as it got closed without a mug in it and put a _permanent crease_ in the heating platen. The manufacturer explicitly mentioned to keep a mug in at all times and would not warranty damage if that happened.

Costly lesson I learned.

As for dunking. On one of my current presses I have no choice but to dunk depending on the mug I use. 

If I use a cactus mug on this press no matter what temp and dwell combination I use, then if I take the mug out of the press and don't dunk right away I can watch all the text and images blur right before my eyes. 

The same mug using a wrap I can let cool down on it's own without dunking. 

Some use a warming plate and preheat the mug (with the transfer taped) before it hits the mug press, this gets the bottom of the mug warmer so when pressed the bottom is not as cold and less likely to allow heat to be "pulled" into the colder bottom and cause dye migration due to heat travel.

One thing on dunking is to not use cool or cold water, the ceramic can have small cracks near the handle. It may not be obvious at first, but after some coffee stains set in you may see those at the handle seem area inside the mug.

I suppose the mass of the mug, it's thickness, the presses abilty to distribute heat evenly all come into play. In an oven with a wrap the mug is not "shocked" so much as the heat is gradually absorbed into the mug and then the mug gets more even and uniform heat around most all it's area. 

So we all really have to "dial in" our process, more so with doing mugs. I agree that one must look at all suggestions in this regard and be willing to try different things.


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## WindoraBug (May 29, 2013)

I wish all the best, I just know there is no cut and paste solutions and try to be blatant about it. I apologize if it ruffled any feathers.


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## ramonchin83 (Apr 23, 2015)

How do you fix the fading areas at the bottom of a mug, i am using a press not an oven. I can´t make the full size print mugs because of it!!! I set my press very loose because if i set too tight the heat resistances marks appears.

I am using 356 Fahrenheit and 3 minutes when the press reaches the 356 fahrenheit. And i peel it off inmediatly and dunk.


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## LandmarkArt (Mar 13, 2017)

What is the best machine to use for mugs? I purchased a cheap one around $90 on Amazon, and I have tried it on about 5 mugs so far...all came out awful. I think it's this cheap machine...https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CABYVCO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

I am also using a new Epson 388+ printer with sublimation ink, and DyeMaster-R Dye Sublimation Paper. 

I have tried using a heat setting range of 360-375 degrees for about 90-120 seconds. 

The mugs I purchased from Amazon have an AAA rating, so hopefully it's nothing to do with them.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong? If it's the machine, any recommendations on a better one under $200?


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## WalkingZombie (Mar 15, 2014)

LandmarkArt said:


> What is the best machine to use for mugs? I purchased a cheap one around $90 on Amazon, and I have tried it on about 5 mugs so far...all came out awful. I think it's this cheap machine...https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CABYVCO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I am also using a new Epson 388+ printer with sublimation ink, and DyeMaster-R Dye Sublimation Paper.
> 
> ...


Are they just coming out faded like the design isn't transferring all the way?... Try 400(F) @ 240 seconds (4min) and medium/firm pressure.


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## LandmarkArt (Mar 13, 2017)

WalkingZombie said:


> Are they just coming out faded like the design isn't transferring all the way?... Try 400(F) @ 240 seconds (4min) and medium/firm pressure.


Thanks for the suggestion! I just created some regular photo mugs as family gifts, and they came out much better. I think I am getting closer to the right settings, but the images are still not as dark/vivid as I'd like. I will take your advice and crank up the heat a little more ... and perhaps another 10 seconds or so on the time. My husband keeps pushing me to get a better (more expensive) mug press, but I don't think it will be necessary. My art came out nice on the mugs I ordered from a retailer, so I'll just keep at it a bit longer and see if I can't get them perfect. I do like having control over the image being centered between the top and bottom of the mug. This was an issue when I ordered through a company. I'll keep you posted.


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## Dekzion (May 18, 2015)

@mary, We press at 180c for 200 using Sawgrass ink and through the powerdriver app, 
with your centring problem, it would be solved by using pre-cut mug wraps which are the correct depth for standard mugs. by opening a custom sized paper on your design desktop and printing that.


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## LandmarkArt (Mar 13, 2017)

Dekzion said:


> @mary, We press at 180c for 200 using Sawgrass ink and through the powerdriver app,
> with your centring problem, it would be solved by using pre-cut mug wraps which are the correct depth for standard mugs. by opening a custom sized paper on your design desktop and printing that.


Thanks! My own mugs are centered nicely. It's the ones I ordered through a well-known company that came out off center (vertically - from top to bottom). While the images were nice and crisp, the off center part was not good considering the cost per photo mug. A second company I used offered full bleed images on the mugs at a pretty good price, but their colors were WAY off. Both companies stamped "Made in China" on the bottom, and I definitely do not want that. Ultimately, I want to make a nice looking photo mug that I can sell at a reasonable price, yet still make something on each.


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