# CafePress, PrintMojo, SpreadShirt, etc...



## Thao1mage

It boggles my mind on how anyone can make any money using these fulfillment services... I mean... they charge so much for their product and by the time you mark your prices up enough to make a decent living, your customers end up having to pay $20-$25 a tshirt.... that's crazy... I don't know which economy you guys are living but in Northern California where the gas is sky high... people think twice about buying a $25 tshirt... how do I make money if my customers don't want to pay that much for a tshirt... something I am forced to do because these fulfillment services are charging me a ridiculous price for their products... insane...

Let me know what you guys think... I hate to think so negative but the fact is... unless it is name brand clothing, I don't think anyone is willing to pay over $20 for a tshirt... Maybe I am thinking it the wrong way. I would appreciate it if someone would talk to me about how these fulfillment services really work...


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## Rodney

Thao1mage said:


> It boggles my mind on how anyone can make any money using these fulfillment services... I mean... they charge so much for their product and by the time you mark your prices up enough to make a decent living, your customers end up having to pay $20-$25 a tshirt.... that's crazy... I don't know which economy you guys are living but in Northern California where the gas is sky high... people think twice about buying a $25 tshirt... how do I make money if my customers don't want to pay that much for a tshirt... something I am forced to do because these fulfillment services are charging me a ridiculous price for their products... insane...
> 
> Let me know what you guys think... I hate to think so negative but the fact is... unless it is name brand clothing, I don't think anyone is willing to pay over $20 for a tshirt... Maybe I am thinking it the wrong way. I would appreciate it if someone would talk to me about how these fulfillment services really work...


Make sure you have the pricing right for each service you're talking about. Not all of them are the same  PrintMojo's pricing is not the same as CafePress's pricing or Spreadshirt's pricing (different business models).

That being said, I live in Northern California, and if you go to any mall, you will see people paying $20+ for t-shirts without blinking an eye.

In a recent survey of t-shirt shoppers, the second highest response for how much people paid for t-shirts was $19+. Only .5% away from the #1 answer of $14-$15 (which you can also price some shirts at and make money at cafepress)

People pay for what they want. If your design is strong and they can't get it anywhere else, they will pay for it.

The fulfillment companies like CafePress/Spreadshirt aren't charging a "ridiculous" price, they are charging a price based on the amount of work and risk they are doing. 

The base prices don't just cover the cost of the t-shirt and the printing. They have to cover all of their business costs in that base price.

That means, the warehousing, the web hosting, the electricity, the customer service, the merchant account credit card processing fees, the web design, the programmers, the marketing, the phone lines, the computers, the very expensive printing equipment, the blank t-shirts, the shipping supplies, etc. Since their main income is the t-shirt sales, they only make money when you sell a t-shirt. All those costs need to be built into the base price to allow you to be able to sell a t-shirt without paying anything up front (something unheard of just 10 years ago...selling a full line of custom printed t-shirts in a full online store without paying a dime in up front investment!)

I've used CafePress since 1999 and I've sold well through them for years. Why, because I design an original t-shirt, I drive traffic to that t-shirt design, a customer sees a t-shirt that they want and that they can't get anywhere else, and they buy it. Simple as that.

There are LOTS of people on CafePress and Spreadshirt making good money. How? They have original designs, they take the time to market and promote a product and build good traffic to their stores, and the customers go there and buy. It's really that simple.

Sure, there may be some customers that don't buy because of the price, but it's not all of the customers, and there are plenty that will buy.

You also aren't forced to use those services to sell your t-shirts  

You could make the investment in your own Direct to Garment printer ($15,000 - $200,000+) or your own heat press equipment, (or get some t-shirts pre printed from a screen printer), setup wholesale accounts, buy some blank t-shirts, get a website designed, find web hosting, get your own merchant account to accept credit cards, warehouse your product, print it as the orders come in, make sure you have the right number/sizes/colors/styles of blank t-shirts in stock to fulfill your orders in a timely manner, handle customer service, etc.

You may end up spending a lot to get it all up and running, but in the long run, you won't have to worry about a base price of $15 for a t-shirt since you'll be taking all the risk and controlling the costs.

Many people on the forums here do just that. 

But the beauty of a fulfillment service is that you don't have to worry about all those time consuming tasks. For the print on demand fulfillment companies, you don't have to worry about the risk of buying equipment and printing shirts. The tradeoff for not having to make that risk or spend that time doing all the work is that you have to pay a "convenience fee" (or a "base price" or a "fulfillment fee") to cover all the work that the company is doing for you.



> Let me know what you guys think... I hate to think so negative but the fact is... unless it is name brand clothing, I don't think anyone is willing to pay over $20 for a tshirt... Maybe I am thinking it the wrong way.


Let me also say that not all the t-shirts/products at cafepress or spreadshirt will end up costing the customer $20+ after your profit.


I've done it the "do it yourself" way by getting t-shirts screen printed by a local screen printer, setting up my own website, learning web design, setting up my own shopping cart, getting my own merchant account, handling my own shipping and customer service. And because I take more the risk, more of the profit goes in my pocket. If you are a do it yourselfer, or if you like total control, that may be the way to go for you.

I've also used fulfillment services (cafepress/zazzle/spreadshirt/printmojo) and I appreciate all the work that they do. For example, I think of a t-shirt idea and have it up for sale in a fully functioning online store in 10-20 minutes! I've actually seen a news story, went to my computer, created a related funny t-shirt, uploaded it to cafepress, and had a sale within an hour. I've had days where I was on vacation and all the while I was on vacation, I was still making sales and t-shirts were still getting shipped on time. I've had big spikes in sales and I was able to spend time doing other things (like marketing, working on a different website, watching TV, sleeping) and all the while, I was still making money, t-shirts were getting printed, and I didn't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to pay money for that kind of service.

Sometimes you have to decide what's your goal and how much you wan to put into your company. The more you put in, the more you get out of it.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the pricing part though. The services have been around for *years*. If no customers were buying at those prices, they would be out of business by now instead of growing rapidly each year.

So there must be more to it if other seller's using those services are able to make money. You just have to figure out how you can be original and do the same.


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## Thao1mage

Hey Rodney,

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the pros and cons of using theses services... After much consideration and research on my part, I am leaning towards PrintMojo. Are there any hidden fees or credit checks that need to be made before I start up? I want to make sure I have everything ready for startup... I wouldn't say I am an HTML guru but I know enough to edit my own Myspace page and put images up. Does Print Mojo make the process of editing the store a little easier? I can't say how much of a help you have been since I've joined the forum and I really do appreciate your input in all the stupid things I say . Hope to hear from you soon.

Ricky
California


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## Thao1mage

Signed up for printmojo at work.... still do not have access... How long does it take to get an account?


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## Rodney

> Are there any hidden fees or credit checks that need to be made before I start up?


There are not credit checks, all the fees are posted on the site.



> I wouldn't say I am an HTML guru but I know enough to edit my own Myspace page and put images up.Does Print Mojo make the process of editing the store a little easier?


There's not much to edit on the PrintMojo hosted store. You can upload your logo and add welcome text.

If you want full customization, you could use your own website and link to PrintMojo for the checkout or use the mojostore script that PrintMojo provides and install it on your webhost.



> Signed up for printmojo at work.... still do not have access... How long does it take to get an account?


Depending on when you signed up, anywhere from a few minutes to 24 hours during business days.


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## Thao1mage

Rodney,

I hope I did not upset you with this thread... I was just being an idiot... a newbie... but after much consideration... I have choosen printmojo because it seems like the type of fulfillment service I need. I did not take into consideration how hard it would be to produce these shirts on my own. I could never thank you enough for all the information that you've provided.

Ricky
California.


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## Rodney

> I hope I did not upset you with this thread... I was just being an idiot... a newbie... but after much consideration


No, not at all. I hope I didn't give you that impression. I was just trying to answer your questions as best as I could 

The questions you asked are not an uncommon concern. 

It's just up to each person how much work they want to do themselves, and how much time they have.

Even PrintMojo isn't for everyone. Some people don't like to have to pay for the inventory before they sell it. Others don't mind, since they get screen printed (or embroidered) products, which is the quality they want.

But money can be made just about any way you do it. 

CafePress, SpreadShirt, PrintMojo, PrintFection, doing it all yourself, outsourcing just some of it. It's all about you driving sales. Without sales/marketing/advertising, you just have cool designs sitting on the shelf


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## Thao1mage

To begin with, I am having Lou (Badalou) make my shirts for me to sell at Hmong new year festivals in California. This is to build up a bankroll for other goals that I have in mind. Eventually, I want my own clothing line, but at the moment, I want to make sure I have funding for that clothing line. I believe that I can do it and I know there are pitfalls that I will encounter, but pitfalls is just a part of business. It happens in every industry. That is why it is always good to do your research first and you guys are the best sources that anyone can ask because you've been there and done that... more questions though...

If I use a design for printmojo, can I take that same design and use it at Cafepress? Is it wise to have stores at both locations at the same time? Is that even legal?

Ricky
California


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## Rodney

> If I use a design for printmojo, can I take that same design and use it at Cafepress? Is it wise to have stores at both locations at the same time? Is that even legal?


Yep, it's your design to do with as you wish. There are no restrictions at either CafePress or PrintMojo that ask for any kind of exclusivity.

I've seen people sell the same design in both places.

Depending on how you are marketing, it might spread yourself a bit thin, but there's nothing illegal about it.


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## Thao1mage

Thank you again for the information... The only downside now is that I am working with a partner who doesn't want to put any work into researching and putting in capital for the company... I am strongly considering dumping him... Family members are awful business partners... heck... I do all the research and he sits on his butt all day... What would you do in this situation?


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## Rodney

> what would you do in this situation?





> I am strongly considering dumping him...


Sounds like you already have a good idea what to do


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## krylonking

Sounds like we're in the same boat man, I want to have my own label and everything I just gotta build the capital for it before I can make any moves in that direction. Good luck to you man



Thao1mage said:


> Thank you again for the information... The only downside now is that I am working with a partner who doesn't want to put any work into researching and putting in capital for the company... I am strongly considering dumping him... Family members are awful business partners... heck... I do all the research and he sits on his butt all day... What would you do in this situation?


Lose him... people like that ride your coat tail and will play the "family" card forever, and heaven forbid you are actually successful with someone like that because then they'll demand more of YOUR success, cut your ties before you get to deep in the business.


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## Thao1mage

Krylon... where are you from? I could use a partner... LOL... JK... we probably have ideas suited for two different target markets... however, I do agree with you... I am trying to find the nicest way to tell my partner that he is a loser...


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## Thao1mage

I don't get it with pintmojo. I know they have bigger fish to fry at this time, but I can't even gain access to their website. It's been 2 days since I "tried" to register. I feel a little shaky about a company who promises to deliver my shirts in a timely manner but can't even grant me access to the website in the same about of time. I'll keep waiting but its frustating when you can't make calculations on how much its going to cost you to do business with the company. I'll keep everyone post. I don't think anyone even cares but oh well...


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## Rodney

Thao1mage said:


> I don't get it with pintmojo. I know they have bigger fish to fry at this time, but I can't even gain access to their website. It's been 2 days since I "tried" to register. I feel a little shaky about a company who promises to deliver my shirts in a timely manner but can't even grant me access to the website in the same about of time. I'll keep waiting but its frustating when you can't make calculations on how much its going to cost you to do business with the company. I'll keep everyone post. I don't think anyone even cares but oh well...


Ricky, your application was approved several days ago 

Be sure you have checked your spam filters/folders.

Before you start feeling shaky, you should make sure you check to make sure there's not another reason why you may not have heard back.


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## Thao1mage

Rodney,

I tried logging in on printmojo and was successful at that... However, I wasn't able to find any prices on the products... Can you point me in the right direction? I am trying to do a PNL statement but I can't find prices to get my PNL statement as accurate as possible. Thank you for your help.

Ricky


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## Rodney

Thao1mage said:


> Rodney,
> 
> I tried logging in on printmojo and was successful at that... However, I wasn't able to find any prices on the products... Can you point me in the right direction? I am trying to do a PNL statement but I can't find prices to get my PNL statement as accurate as possible. Thank you for your help.
> 
> Ricky


You just have to click on the "Get Pricing" link in the left hand navigation


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