# Proof Of Business License



## iZame.com (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm currently running a brand called Resist Apparel. I'm a 17 year old, high school student and I'm currently running the whole thing under the table and through our online store (paypal).

My DECA event for nationals is 'Entrepreneurship - Growing Your Business'. It is required that I provide proof of a business license. I have no intentions of filing tax records _yet_, but I need proof of a business license in _some_ form.

What would be the best approach to licensing _only_ my business name?

Thanks in advance,
Andy


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

It is going to vary state to state and if the DECA event will except the bare minimum.

In some states you get your business name by filing for a DBA at the county clerks office. This gives you a legal business name. But if they are also going to require you have a resale permit then there is now way you can get out of filing sales taxes at the minimum.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Do they specifically require a business license, or will a tax id# suffice? You can get a tax id# online, and only have to file if you have sales of a certain amount.

Also, depending upon your location, it's usually the same with local taxes. You only have to file taxes if you have sales that reach a certain threshold.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I would think going totally legal would be the best idea........


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## GraphixGuys (Jan 16, 2012)

Can a 17 year old even get a business license? Businesses have legal obligations that cannot be signed by a minor, at least I would think.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> Do they specifically require a business license, or will a tax id# suffice? You can get a tax id# online, and only have to file if you have sales of a certain amount.
> 
> Also, depending upon your location, it's usually the same with local taxes. You only have to file taxes if you have sales that reach a certain threshold.


That may be the case in TN but down here if you have a resale tax id then you have to file a return monthly, quarterly or annually depending on what the state determines your reporting cycle should be. You even have to file if you have no taxable sales and failure to do so results in a $50.00 fine with interest.

He needs to find out what the place he wants to go needs and then ask the officials in his state what he needs to do to get that piece of paper. Asking this type of thing on a forum is sure to get him in trouble in the long run.


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## Comin'OutSwingin (Oct 28, 2005)

Preston said:


> That may be the case in TN but down here if you have a resale tax id then you have to file a return monthly, quarterly or annually depending on what the state determines your reporting cycle should be. You even have to file if you have no taxable sales and failure to do so results in a $50.00 fine with interest.


That's why I said, "depending upon your location"



Preston said:


> He needs to find out what the place he wants to go needs and then ask the officials in his state what he needs to do to get that piece of paper. Asking this type of thing on a forum is sure to get him in trouble in the long run.


Agreed. Or he could just let us know his location, and we could help him out.

I know a few years ago I posted a link to a site that has links to all of the state sites for this kind of stuff. I'll see if I can dig it up...


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## tcrowder (Apr 27, 2006)

Comin'OutSwingin said:


> Also, depending upon your location,


Issaquah, WA


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## iZame.com (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm in Spokane, WA. And the guideline simply says "a copy of my business license". That seems pretty vague, but it just seems like a precaution to weed out the kids who mow loans, babysit, etc. and call it a business. I could get away with the bare minimum.

I'm running equity of near $2500 at this point. I'm grossing sales near $1800/quarter. I'm starting to build some powerful contacts so it probably won't be long before I go fully legal, I just don't want to go there quite yet with my gross sales number.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Go to your city for a biz license. If you are in an unincorporated area, go to the county. You are not making enough to file Federal taxes and there is no State tax in WA but there is a Sales Tax. 

It is true that a minor does not have the legal ability to contract but government is different. They don't care. Just go get the biz lic. and pay the fee and be done with it.

http://www.spokanecity.org/departments/finance/taxlicenses/business/

*On-line*
At this time, we are not set up to take applications on-line. We apologize for any inconvenience. Please print the application, fill out and mail with the license fee to:
City of Spokane
Treasurer’s Office
808 W Spokane Falls Blvd
Spokane, WA 99201

*What are the fees associated with a business license?*

*BUSINESS LICENSE FEE CALCULATION*
*BASE FEE*: $110.00 per 12 month period
*TEMPORARY LICENSE*: $55.00 for first 90 days, $45.00 to renew for additional 90 days if renewed within the first 90 day license period.
*TRANSFER FEE*: $20.00 is due whenever there is a CHANGE of ownership, name or location to include change of suite in the same building.
*BRANCH FEE*: $110.00 for each additional location. $20.00 for each unique name inside the City of Spokane. Mobile carts or other mobile units from which business is conducted is considered an additional location.
*PERSONNEL FEE*:
Personnel Definition:
Any person employed by or at any business within the City and/or persons who perform any part of their duties within the City of Spokane.
NOTE: Sole proprietors and spouses are NOT personnel under this definition.
Personnel include:

All officers, agents, dealers, LLC members, etc. of a corporation or business trust.
Partners (fee applies to every partner over one.)
Each part-time and each temporary person must be included in personnel count / fee.
Number of PersonnelFee Per Person*1 through 5$10.00 each6 through 10$15.00 each11 or more$20.00 each
*Per Person Fee is based on the total number of personnel working within the City of Spokane.

*BUSINESS SITE EVALUATION FEE*: Site evaluation fees apply ONLY to businesses located within the City limits with any of the following criteria:

new businesses, or
new business owners, or
relocated businesses, or
additional sites for an existing business, or
if customers visit a business located at a residence.
Fees are calculated based on the following information:
*Residential Location*
If customers visit the residence a processing fee is required: $25.00
If clients receive care of reside in the home a Safety Evaluation Fee is required: $90.00
*Commercial Location*
Processing fee for evaluation of low-hazard general office: $25.00
Safety evaluation fee (includes processing fee): $90.00
Carts & Booths that have ignition sources, flammable liquids or solids need the safety evaluation fee.
*Do I qualify for a reduced-fee license?*

Taxpayers whose gross business revenues do not exceed $18,000 per calendar year are "eligible persons" entitled to a reduced business license fee. You must provide IRS filed documents as proof of gross revenues. For computation of gross revenues, revenue from outside the city is included. Gross revenues means the revenues to the taxpaying entity and are not computed separately for each individual partner, principal, employee, or other constituent part of the taxpayer. Please call (509) 625-6070 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting







FREE (509) 625-6070 end_of_the_skype_highlighting if you have further questions.
*Do I need a business site evaluation?*

Site evaluation fees apply ONLY to businesses located within the City limits with any of the following criteria:

new businesses, or
new business owners, or
relocated businesses, or
additional sites for an existing business, or
if customers visit a business located at a residence.


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## Preston (Mar 21, 2006)

binki said:


> *PERSONNEL FEE*:
> Personnel Definition:
> Any person employed by or at any business within the City and/or persons who perform any part of their duties within the City of Spokane.
> NOTE: Sole proprietors and spouses are NOT personnel under this definition.
> ...


Darn, they fee you to death but the personnel fee is the one that gets me. Charging you a fee to have employees. Talk about a job killer for small businesses.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

OK seriously, you are on a public forum, you blatantly state you are running a business "under the table," and " I have no intentions of filing tax records" and "I'm grossing sales near $1800/quarter."

What are you going to do when you get that wonderful PayPal 1099-K at the end of the year? Oh yea, the one with a copy that goes to the IRS...

Congrats on laying the foundation of a legit business! Seriously, it's no easy task. But you really should go legit.

By the way, the IRS 1099-K threshold is $20,000 per year OR 200 transactions. So if you move 200 transactions for 15 dollar tee shirts, you can expect the 1099-K even though you were well below the $20,000 break point.


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

Liberty said:


> OK seriously, you are on a public forum, you blatantly state you are running a business "under the table," and " I have no intentions of filing tax records" and "I'm grossing sales near $1800/quarter."
> 
> What are you going to do when you get that wonderful PayPal 1099-K at the end of the year? Oh yea, the one with a copy that goes to the IRS...
> 
> ...


Liberty I was thinking the same thing when I read this post and was surprised no one mentioned it sooner. Obviously the poster is not aware of this and he may not be far enough under that table...or it's made of glass


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

That really doesn't answer the question though. Just about every home based biz operates under the radar in some way, shape or form. 

Here is what you have to look forward in in California with a business:

City License fee
Possible County License fee
County property tax on all equipment, furniture and fixtures as well as all no saleable supplies
State tax of $800/yr min if you are a Corp or LLC
Possible City/County/State annual permit fees depending on the type of business

So even the smallest of businesses can figure on $2K out the door before you even start for fees and taxes. 

Just looking at the Spokane fees I can see why someone would avoid them.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

I live in Canada just north of the WA / BC border......So I get to Spokane from time to time......It looks like a ghost town......No wonder with fees like those to drive small businesses out of town.....


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## iZame.com (Dec 22, 2010)

Liberty said:


> OK seriously, you are on a public forum, you blatantly state you are running a business "under the table," and " I have no intentions of filing tax records" and "I'm grossing sales near $1800/quarter."
> 
> What are you going to do when you get that wonderful PayPal 1099-K at the end of the year? Oh yea, the one with a copy that goes to the IRS...
> 
> ...


I'm a 17 year old kid. There's a reason I'm asking for help. I know nothing about this. No need to be rude or sarcastic. If you don't want to help me out, then simply don't reply.




veedub3 said:


> Liberty I was thinking the same thing when I read this post and was surprised no one mentioned it sooner. Obviously the poster is not aware of this and he may not be far enough under that table...or it's made of glass


Yeah, I'm not aware of it. Again, I'm a 17 year old kid. I'm asking for help for a reason - I don't know a lot about the topic.




royster13 said:


> I live in Canada just north of the WA / BC border......So I get to Spokane from time to time......It looks like a ghost town......No wonder with fees like those to drive small businesses out of town.....


Not sure what part of Spokane you've been visiting. It's a pretty lively city.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

iZame.com said:


> I'm a 17 year old kid. There's a reason I'm asking for help. I know nothing about this. No need to be rude or sarcastic. If you don't want to help me out, then simply don't reply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

really? nobody from any government agency is going to bother you. what might happen is if you register for a business license then that info might be shared with other interested agencies and they will send you a friendly reminder to pay their fees as well. you need to be well north of $100K in sales before the IRS even thinks about looking at you.


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## iZame.com (Dec 22, 2010)

Liberty said:


> I'm a 17 year old kid. There's a reason I'm asking for help. I know nothing about this. No need to be rude or sarcastic. If you don't want to help me out, then simply don't reply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, you're acting rude and twisting my words. I have nothing against going completely legal. I'm open to it. I'm not getting defensive toward the idea of going legal, simply getting defensive toward your attack on my intentions because you're falsely accusing me.

I'm not trying to "cheat" anyone. If anything, the government is the one cheating. The last internet marketing venture that I capped $20k on, they took $5000 in taxes. I was just simply looking for a way around that this time around and came here to seek my answer because I know there are many people out there who know more than me.




binki said:


> really? nobody from any government agency is going to bother you. what might happen is if you register for a business license then that info might be shared with other interested agencies and they will send you a friendly reminder to pay their fees as well. you need to be well north of $100K in sales before the IRS even thinks about looking at you.


Thanks for your reply. That's what I figured. But that still doesn't seem to help me with supplying proof of a business license. Any ideas?


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## greyhorsewoman (Jul 19, 2007)

> the government is the one cheating. The last internet marketing venture that I capped $20k on, they took $5000 in taxes


The government is not 'cheating' when it asks you to pay the % due on net profits. No matter how you make your money, you pay taxes. If $20,000 was the net profit, then you did pretty good. 

However, if you keep good records, most small businesses, especially in the start up years, have a LOT more expenses and very little profit and often run in the red (therefore no IRS taxes). In 2011, a single person earning $20,000 (profit or wages) would only have a tax of $2,500. So, it's puzzling why you had such a large tax bill.


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## iZame.com (Dec 22, 2010)

greyhorsewoman said:


> The government is not 'cheating' when it asks you to pay the % due on net profits. No matter how you make your money, you pay taxes. If $20,000 was the net profit, then you did pretty good.
> 
> However, if you keep good records, most small businesses, especially in the start up years, have a LOT more expenses and very little profit and often run in the red (therefore no IRS taxes). In 2011, a single person earning $20,000 (profit or wages) would only have a tax of $2,500. So, it's puzzling why you had such a large tax bill.


It fell into a weird tax category because there was no expense, it was pure profit from viral marketing. Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument on political views.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

iZame.com said:


> Thanks for your reply. That's what I figured. But that still doesn't seem to help me with supplying proof of a business license. Any ideas?


I gave you the link to the city website. You can just mail it in. How easy is that?


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

one more thing, until you are 18 you will not have the ablity to create a legal contract. you will need to get someone 18 or older to do that for you.


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## GraphicsFactory (Jul 17, 2007)

A business license allows you to legally conduct business. It has nothing to do with your personal income tax. The only other taxes involved, other than the fees and taxes directly involved in establishing the business is a sales tax. The mechanics vary widely from one state/county/city to the next. When you apply for the license, you will need to disclose that you are conducting commerce. They will then also have the ability to search for accounts. They could, and probably would find your PayPal account. But, all this is academic. You are not really a business, your only pretending. So, why should you be able to attend the seminar?


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## iZame.com (Dec 22, 2010)

GraphicsFactory said:


> A business license allows you to legally conduct business. It has nothing to do with your personal income tax. The only other taxes involved, other than the fees and taxes directly involved in establishing the business is a sales tax. The mechanics vary widely from one state/county/city to the next. When you apply for the license, you will need to disclose that you are conducting commerce. They will then also have the ability to search for accounts. They could, and probably would find your PayPal account. But, all this is academic. You are not really a business, your only pretending. So, why should you be able to attend the seminar?


This isn't all academic. I am a real business. I'm simply using my business as a part of a DECA competition project in a category exclusive to high school students who run their own business.


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