# Discharge ink washing out



## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

We've been using the same red discharge ink for a couple of months on several small runs of shirts. We suddenly had a problem with the ink... it printed fine, it discharged the dye from the shirts, but when we washed a shirt the red was washing out and faded badly. It was leaving white-ish areas behind, so it was clear that the ink had discharged, but the red wasn't staying. We had not had this problem before with the same jar of ink on several runs of shirts. 

We may have tried to use a retarder, propylene glycol. We can't remember, but could that be the problem?


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## kriscad (Dec 18, 2006)

what brand?

what type of oven are you running? belt speed and temp?


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## LitPrinter (Apr 25, 2008)

It can be for not enough fixation (temperature, belt speed) or to enough retarder. Almost to all water based inks it is important not to overload retarder or softner (max 2-3%).


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## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

kriscad said:


> what brand?
> 
> what type of oven are you running? belt speed and temp?


We are just starting out and we are still discharging with a heat gun. On high setting about 4 inches from the shirt. Could it have been that I rushed too much? Usually when I see the ink has discharged, it seems to be enough.


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## LitPrinter (Apr 25, 2008)

Ink washed out, becuse of fixation. It is not enough that ink just discharge, also You must fix it. And it is possible with normal dryer.


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## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

LitPrinter said:


> Ink washed out, becuse of fixation. It is not enough that ink just discharge, also You must fix it. And it is possible with normal dryer.


I always iron the print a day or so after we screen. Shouldn't that work to fix the color?


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## sg613 (Jul 19, 2007)

I am surprised that discharge even works with a heat gun. That's pretty interesting considering everyone always says you need a conveyor dryer to do it. Also its amazing you got a pic of Micheal Graves rocking one of your shirts. Good luck to you man. Nice stuff.


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## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

sg613 said:


> I am surprised that discharge even works with a heat gun. That's pretty interesting considering everyone always says you need a conveyor dryer to do it. Also its amazing you got a pic of Micheal Graves rocking one of your shirts. Good luck to you man. Nice stuff.


Thanks! I've done a couple of posters for Michale's shows and for the Misfits and they've been very supportive of me. We don't have much to get started on with our business and I've done tons of research on the internet and in books to try to figure this stuff out. The heat gun actually works pretty well and I've been told that I'd even be better off sticking with that than trying to get that forced air Acoma flash dryer that some people recommend. A conveyor dryer is way out of our league right now. We don't even have a permanent place to work. But I want to try and get my designs out there.


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## Steelheader100 (Jan 18, 2007)

That is cool. I met Michale Graves once about 7 years ago after a misfits show in Portland, Oregon. Nice guy.


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

Humidity will greatly affect the curing of discharge inks maybe that is the issue now.


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## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

studog79 said:


> Humidity will greatly affect the curing of discharge inks maybe that is the issue now.


So if the day we did that run of shirts was a humid or rainy day, it might make the ink not set right? Would I be able to help that by curing the ink longer with the heat gun? Or by ironing it longer?


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

To cure discharge you have to remove the water though evaporation. With more H2O in the atmosphere the harder it is to evaporate it from the ink. Same as if you dry clothes outside. The sun evaporates the water, on a humid day the do not dry as fast.


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## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

studog79 said:


> To cure discharge you have to remove the water though evaporation. With more H2O in the atmosphere the harder it is to evaporate it from the ink. Same as if you dry clothes outside. The sun evaporates the water, on a humid day the do not dry as fast.


I'm wondering how you tell if the print is cured. If you see the designs appear and you hold the heat on it a bit longer to get a cure, shouldn't that do it? How do you know when it's cured except by looking?


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

Put one in a washer a few times is the ultimate test.


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## JayJaySerious (Sep 19, 2007)

OK. This past weekend we tested our ink and I don't know what else to think except that maybe we got some bad ink. On Saturday we screened a couple of shirts (Holdens discharge ink + activator but no retarder or anything else), the color didn't look quite right but not so bad that it would really stand out but it was dark when we were working and our lighting isn't great. In daylight the next day our blood red design was Pepto Bismal pink. ugh. So we tried a new quart of ink and this time the designs came out bright deep red. Until we washed them. Then they too turned pink. A different pink, more like faded red, but ugh. 

I had mixed the ink very carefully both times. I ironed the shirts before we screened them. I ironed them after we discharged them with the heat gun. And we tried 2 different quarts of the same red color ink bought about a month apart. It's the same brand of ink we have used in the past and had great results with. I've washed some of our older shirts 10-12 times and they are still ok. 

I'm totally confused now.


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## studog79 (Jul 13, 2006)

To me it sounds like the ink is not cured thus when you are washing them some of the red is washing out. Also different shirts will discharge differently. You must make sure you have 1st dyed lot of shirts. Sometimes a shirt manufacturer will take a blue shirt for example and dye it black later if they have too many blue instock and need black. Also when doing discharge you can NOT gaurentee a PMS match no matter what anyone tells you. The same ink on different brands will discharge differently, and also on different colors. Try to discharge on a royal and a lite blue shirt the same ink and you'll probably get a different result.


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