# Numbers just don't add up on plastisol transfers



## pjonnalagadda (Jun 20, 2011)

Hi All,
Today I went to local churches trying to spread awareness about my screen printing company. Before I went I did some basic math. I decided to get custom plastisol transfers from companies like transfer express or dowling graphics or any other company worth its repute. 

For example, if I get an order of 25 shirts, transfer express charges $2.39 per piece, per side for one color. Add $3.5 per garment the total price comes down to 5.89.
Add shipping cost of both garment and transfers it comes to $7.

Now when I go to churches or any other place to market my stuff this is what local screen printers are charging them. About 7 to 8 dollars.

I just don't see any benefit going down this path unless I'm able to make a clear 3-4$ profit per shirt. 

How do I get over this situation?. Who will be willing to pay about $10-11 per t-shirt, which leaves me about $3 profit per garment.

Any ideas?


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## cascolo (Mar 8, 2007)

First thing is your price should be base on your overhead, not what the local printer are charging.Make a list of the local printers & give them a call with a specific job spec, compare the jobs prices every job is different. 

Printers usually quote the production 10-15 day. I buy my transfers from F&M Expressions 3 days turnaround time, Shirts from Eva Tees next day delivery. Turn the job around in seven working day the, customers would have to pay a 20% rush fee with the local printer to get a turn around that fast.

I don't care about what the guy next door is charging. I charge base on my skill on layouts,my attention to details. Whats your USP (Unique Selling Proposition, Unique Selling Point) do you work on Sunday? whats the bennift of buying from you? Faster turn around time? Do you travel to the prospect location? Why should i buy from you? i hope this help.


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## pjonnalagadda (Jun 20, 2011)

cascolo said:


> First thing is your price should be base on your overhead, not what the local printer are charging.Make a list of the local printers & give them a call with a specific job spec, compare the jobs prices every job is different.
> 
> Printers usually quote the production 10-15 day. I buy my transfers from F&M Expressions 3 days turnaround time, Shirts from Eva Tees next day delivery. Turn the job around in seven working day the, customers would have to pay a 20% rush fee with the local printer to get a turn around that fast.
> 
> I don't care about what the guy next door is charging. I charge base on my skill on layouts,my attention to details. Whats your USP (Unique Selling Proposition, Unique Selling Point) do you work on Sunday? whats the bennift of buying from you? Faster turn around time? Do you travel to the prospect location? Why should i buy from you? i hope this help.


WOW!. What a powerful message. Thanks for the words of enlightenment. I will think on those lines.


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## cascolo (Mar 8, 2007)

Glad i can help.


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## pjonnalagadda (Jun 20, 2011)

cascolo said:


> Glad i can help.


Just curious to know what kind of printing you do?. What kind of stuff do you sell?


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## bighook1 (May 16, 2007)

We use Transfer Express which are really nice transfers & never have a problem selling the for $13.00-$15.00 each.. Mike


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

the real weak spot in screen printing is the set up and screen costs. If your customer wants 25 tees with a 4 color design, a screen printer can't touch your no set up fees price. I do contract DTG and I work that market...1-100 tees ...no set up, unlimited colors, quick turn....big market there. Compete on your own turf


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## pjonnalagadda (Jun 20, 2011)

bighook1 said:


> We use Transfer Express which are really nice transfers & never have a problem selling the for $13.00-$15.00 each.. Mike


Nice. That's a healthy profit marigin. Do you sell in retail or bulk


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

michael's right, the set-up and screen costs (and i would add cleaning time to that) is what's prohibitive in screenprinting *in small quantities*. that's why screenprinting is geared towards higher production runs and why screenprinters often, if not usually, have minimum orders, the lowest i've seen is 10, though 12 seems to be more common. 

the big advantage with transfers is time savings and not having to operate your own shop. heat press and, boom, you're ready for business. that said, at $2.39 per transfer, if you did your own screenprinting it wouldn't take too long to easily eclipse that cost as doing it yourself, stretched out over a longer production run, will cost you a fraction of that. 

if you're handy with tools, you can build your own equipment. if one colour is all you're looking to do, a little one station/one colour press bolts right to your work bench. you can buy one used or build one. the big expense with an exposure table is the UV bulbs. you can grab a cheap heat gun from harbor freight for $12 (but keep that receipt! it *is* harbor freight, after all, lol). paint, chemicals, squeegee, a couple of screens... i dunno, say $300.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

RB, first, no screen printer uses Paint. We use INK. 

2nd, you can buy an Intro kit from Ryonet for $149. The one color press clamps to your table or bench.

lastly, not all screen printers charge a setup charge. They also have heat presses, transfers, and some have embroidery and DTG machines. Oh, lets not forget Cutters. 

Once you start with a Heat Press, keep building and buy a little of everything.


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## Sport T (Nov 10, 2010)

If you can keep your design to 10" X 6.75" Transfer express can gang two images on one sheet which cuts your price in half on transfers. If you are paying $3.50 for your T's that is too much. Call on churches large enough to order more than 25 shirts as your cost decreases substantially as the quantity goes up.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Problem is you are selling t-shirts not art/designs. You are out there beating the bushes for $3-4 per shirt? That in itself seems like a losing proposition. 

If you are new to this business you cannot make it trying to compete with the established t-shirt sellers and their low pricing. Consider going to the other end of the spectrum and selling art/designs that happen to be on a shirt or other item. How many women do you see at Walmart buying a $9.00 t-shirt? You can sell one rhinestone shirt and make as much as you would selling 10 junkie t-shirts.

Always amazes me how many people fight for the low end of the market.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

true, it's ink, not paint. whoops. i was in a rush when i wrote that. 

yeah, there's that ryonet starting kit. it literally will get you started, but i think anyone would burn through those supplies in a week. my suggested starting number isn't rock bottom, but it gets you more than one screen and two colours of ink, and certainly more than five film positives and the ability to print out 50 shirts before ordering more of about everything. and the materials i had in mind are probably of a much higher quality (for example, the squeegee and a couple of aluminum screens of different mesh count), so i tried to take that into consideration. 

not all screenprinters *claim* to charge a set-up fee. big difference. some work it into the cost of the shirt, but it's there. those that waive the fee are probably doing a large order. someone not charging a fee and running off ten shirts and not building that into the cost of the shirt? then they're subsidizing a hobby, not running a business, imo.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

That's correct. I wouldn't give free setup for 10 t-shirts and 4 colors. Maybe 100 t-shirts and 2 colors.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

exactamundo. and when i do an invoice, i keep the set-up charge separate because i think it's fairer to the customer and also gives them the notion that they can't just make 'small' changes without there being another charge. maybe if i did DTG it would be different, idk, i'll cross that bridge whenever. i don't believe in itemizing things too death, though i think this is one thing that warrants it, imo. 

by building the charge into the shirt, i feel as if you can wind up, ah, 'cheating' the customer... from a certain point of view. 

back somewhat on topic... gadda, remember that this is a volume business, so you've got to sell a lot to pay the bills. even at $4 profit a shirt, sell 25 shirts and that's only $100. when it's all said and done, you'll have earned that C note, too, after you do the design, deal with the printer, paperwork, the actual transfers, etc. etc. etc.. add it all up and you're probably kissing a day goodbye. i don't know about anyone else, but if i can rake in $100/day for 5 hours of work, sign me up! i'd much rather look in the mirror and say i have a jerk for a boss than the tub of backwards, *****y goo that's my boss at my day job. 

none of that is meant to be discouraging at all, but just a reminder to be realistic. you can absolutely make $4 a shirt, why not? of course, you need to have a better design than the other guy. and who says you have to do shirts? 'tis sweatshirt season, after all. now, to better be able to get that better profit, remember also that shirts are often personal things, so something more customized, e.g. the name of the church, might get you over that price hump? 

lastly, you're acting essentially as a middleman here since you're not actually doing the hard work (assuming you're not hunched over the computer for ten hours working on a design). i hate to put in terms like that, but, honestly, why should you garner the same profit as an actual screenprinter who doesn't have to outsource the professional and equipment end of the same deal? sorry, i don't mean for that to sound harsh.


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## pjonnalagadda (Jun 20, 2011)

ryan barker said:


> exactamundo. and when i do an invoice, i keep the set-up charge separate because i think it's fairer to the customer and also gives them the notion that they can't just make 'small' changes without there being another charge. maybe if i did DTG it would be different, idk, i'll cross that bridge whenever. i don't believe in itemizing things too death, though i think this is one thing that warrants it, imo.
> 
> by building the charge into the shirt, i feel as if you can wind up, ah, 'cheating' the customer... from a certain point of view.
> 
> ...


Very honest answer. I like when someone just gives you straight


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

Just to add another thought - some people value their time. 

I sell primarily to business owners, and I go to them. They can get the deal done without having to drive the 5-10 miles to the (only) local screen printer in town (twice). For some of them, it's worth it to pay me a little more for the convenience. For others, they wouldn't even bother, but since I've made it easy for them, they will buy something from me. I quite often pick up an order for a dozen hats or shirts, and it was never competitive.

Selling is about more than price. It's about delivering value at a price that the customer thinks is reasonable. Your typical church group is pinching pennies and they have the time to spend hours shaving a few cents off the deal. I look for customers that value the service I offer - they are easy to sell to.

Just my 2 cents. 
​


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## pjonnalagadda (Jun 20, 2011)

Riph said:


> Just to add another thought - some people value their time.
> 
> I sell primarily to business owners, and I go to them. They can get the deal done without having to drive the 5-10 miles to the (only) local screen printer in town (twice). For some of them, it's worth it to pay me a little more for the convenience. For others, they wouldn't even bother, but since I've made it easy for them, they will buy something from me. I quite often pick up an order for a dozen hats or shirts, and it was never competitive.
> 
> ...


What a wonderful advice. What kind of business owners are you referring to?. When you advertise your service do you specifically say that you would be charging little more extra for bringing the merchandise to their door steps?.


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## Riph (Jan 11, 2011)

pjonnalagadda said:


> What a wonderful advice. What kind of business owners are you referring to?. When you advertise your service do you specifically say that you would be charging little more extra for bringing the merchandise to their door steps?.


No, I don't say anything about it. I "write off" $0.50 per mile for travel on my expenses, though. 

Some customers pay to have the blanks shipped here, others will wait until I can gang their order with others to get free shipping. But I don't charge for delivery, I consider it another opportunity to get in touch with them and make them feel "served." It's a small town, no one is really terribly far away, and if they are, I try to combine the trip with other sales calls.


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## 321go (Aug 13, 2011)

you need to use a cheaper shirt for one thing. have you looked into Jet Pro SofStretch paper? (JPSS) it would take 5 minutes to print, tag and bag a shirt, and the quality of jpss is very very good, most customers wouldnt know the difference between that and a screen printed design. in house production is the way to make the money. Why pay somebody else to print the shirt when you can do it yourself and save on your costs.


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## mountainman1938 (Sep 3, 2010)

Many of our reseller customers have a simple formula. Total all your costs for a job and double the price. You won't make much on a dozen shirts but there is always repeat business.


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

thats called keystoneing in retail...question ..why double ? where does that come from ? why not 2.14 ?


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