# How many color changes are in the average embroidery design?



## tim3560 (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm trying to figure out which machine best suits my needs. There are 6, 9, 12, 15 and probably more or less needles on any given single head machine. Disregarding the fact that it's just cool to have the ability of extra needles on a machine, which means less manual color changes per piece, what is the average number of color changes per design?
Does my startup need to have a 15 needle setup, or will a 6 needle get me through most of my jobs?


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

thats a tough call. Really depends on the designs at hand. 6 is probably ok yet if you can squeeze the 15 it would be best. The moment you get the 6-clr you'll be hit with an 8-clr design.

Might be best to get the 6-needle and just manually add the color changes like you mentioned, hoof it for a bit until you can get a bigger machine.


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## tim3560 (Jan 7, 2007)

Fluid said:


> thats a tough call. Really depends on the designs at hand. 6 is probably ok yet if you can squeeze the 15 it would be best. The moment you get the 6-clr you'll be hit with an 8-clr design.
> 
> Might be best to get the 6-needle and just manually add the color changes like you mentioned, hoof it for a bit until you can get a bigger machine.


That's what I was thinking except for like you said, the moment I take in the 6-clr I'll get hit with a design requiring more. I just wondered about the average because most of what I see in town is 2 or 3 color left chest or hats. The price is definitely more convienient on the 6 needle right now starting out, plus it would be easier to take to events.

Oh, by the way, love the new avatar.


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

You won't regret a good six needle machine and if you do need more than six colors(rare), you can change while the others are stitching. I have never regretted buying my six needle machines and have never had a problem. A well digitized design has as few stitches and colors as possible so it really isn't a big deal unless you get into mainly doing jacketbacks. For those of us who have 15 needle machines also, we still have to change threads. I know I must have 150 different colors and am picky about the colors I use since I don't focus on logos. 

Jim
Embellishments in Thread


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

This may sound stupid but if you don't want to do manual thread changes then why not just do 6 color max jobs and outsource the rest? Your average logo-wear is only going to be one or a few colors anyway and anything bigger than that you can still send out to be done. 

Just a thought.


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## tim3560 (Jan 7, 2007)

binki said:


> This may sound stupid but if you don't want to do manual thread changes then why not just do 6 color max jobs and outsource the rest? Your average logo-wear is only going to be one or a few colors anyway and anything bigger than that you can still send out to be done.
> 
> Just a thought.


Well, my only thought is that I may want to get into the retail market and do multi colored large designs on certain items. Other than that, it's just because I can do it cheaper for myself than someone else can do it for me.


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

Even though I focus on things other than logos and names, I think you'll find that is where the bulk of your income will come from unless you find a niche market. Multiple logo and name orders are big money makers and require much less prep time. Even I will relent and do them once in a while

Jim
Embellishments in Thread


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## tim3560 (Jan 7, 2007)

imeccentric said:


> Even though I focus on things other than logos and names, I think you'll find that is where the bulk of your income will come from unless you find a niche market. Multiple logo and name orders are big money makers and require much less prep time. Even I will relent and do them once in a while
> 
> Jim
> Embellishments in Thread


What do you focus on?


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## John S (Sep 9, 2006)

Go for the 15. It allows you to keep the standard colors in the center positions, and change out the side spools between jobs.

Your need for a 15 will increase if you buy a catalog of designs and if you do a lot of one up sewing. 

We sell one very popular product for Mom's that will often use all 15 colors and sometimes we have to set a stop in the middle of the sewout to do a second change of threads so we can get all 20 colors on the shirt. 

You won't want to get stuck with run of 10 logos and be one needle short! 

We sometimes have to take one or two needles out of production until we can get a tech (me) in to make an adjustment to stop thread breaks etc.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

tim3560 said:


> Well, my only thought is that I may want to get into the retail market and do multi colored large designs on certain items. Other than that, it's just because I can do it cheaper for myself than someone else can do it for me.


Then you have answered your own question. Good Luck.


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## tim3560 (Jan 7, 2007)

binki said:


> Then you have answered your own question. Good Luck.


Well, not fully. It's all unknown at this point what will work best in my area. It's obvious though that a bigger machine will answer most if not all needs whereas the smaller machine can still satisfy most needs but still leaves room for dissappointment, or at least more work.
I may work for 5 years without having a single order over 6 colors. Or I may get a couple jobs per month that require 7 or more colors.


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## tim3560 (Jan 7, 2007)

So are we saying that most designs are under 6 colors and that it's just nicer to have the abilities of the larger machine?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

most of my orders are 6 or less. Moat logos are 2-3. ..... JB


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

Tim,
My focus is on dog shows and lifelike portraits. Even dogs rarely take more than six colors but the portraits usually take around 10-15. To be really honest, if I were you, I'd get a six needle machine and add sublimation to your line. It adds a lot of versatility and doesn't put all of your eggs in one basket. We added it recently just for fun, and I am impressed with how well it has gone over. 

Jim
Embellishments in Thread


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## KenS (Apr 27, 2007)

I...Like Fluid... say go with the 15. That is what we have. It allows us to leave the primary colors we normally use in the center positions and not have to change them for people that want names in other colors like hot pink and such. It does save time if you are doing walk in items.


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## robby (Oct 29, 2007)

It depends on the design, if what you make are mostly letters, six color is enough but if you make a more sophisticated design, more needles really save your time!


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## curtrnev (May 28, 2007)

On a machine with more needles you can have different needles for different items already loaded ball point or sharps and or different sizes all set with different speeds.

curtis
KNC


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I own 2 six needle Brother machines and love them. I have been running them for - 3 years 5 days a week. A lot of my designs are 10-12 colors. It is not a problem- To me the main consideration should be service. I have a good tech within a hours drive. The machines are portable so I can take them to her if need be. When you get into the 12 + needles you are talking big size with a lot of weight. The serivce tech needs to come to you. If there is someone close no problem but if you don't have one close you will have to pay major traveling expenses plus, motel plus food just to get your machine serviced. Check that out before buying

sally


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

I'd go for 15. Most of our logos are under 6 colors but some of our biggest orders are 12 - 13 colors. I'd hate to contract those out & I certainly wouldn't want to manually change colors. If you go with 15 you'll spend less time switching cones.


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## imeccentric (May 13, 2007)

About the only time a 15 needle is faster is if you have mulitiples of the same design requiring that many colors. Other than that, it takes the same time to load colors. In three years, I can count on one hand the number of times that has happened to me, but then I don't run, nor do I want to run, a full out production shop with employees and the headaches it entails. A design with six colors and multiple repeats of those colors can usually be done with a smart color sort so it just goes back to the inititial needle. Most designs can be reduced to six colors with no loss of quality, just as stitches can be reduced. I run my machines to make money, so if I can reduce stitch count and thread colors without loss of quality, I don't hesitate. Same way with digitizing. I can give the same color a different shade just by changing the direction of the fill. I don't like jumps or stops. They all take time so I like designs to have connecting stitches if possible so the machine can just keep stitching away. It all depends on how much you can afford and where you want to go with your business. There is never a "one size fits all" answer. All IMHO of course For some the 15 needles are the best, for others a simple home machine, and for others the 6-9 needles fill the bill.

Jim
Embellishments in Thread


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

Sorry, let me clarify. If you go with 15 you'll spend less time changing cones between different designs. For example, in addition to white & black which almost always stay on the rack, we also have a red, a few blues, a couple of greys & a yellow that are almost always on the rack because they're frequently used. If different colors are needed we don't have to remove these colors. The less movement from color to color, the less time spent fine-tuning tensioning because a different color may need a tensioning adjustment.


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## Bringselpup (Oct 10, 2007)

Add me to the more needles = better camp. I plan my work to change the least amount of cones. I even have a client who has all their designs narrowed to 15 colors inc black and white. I can run their stuff all week long and only load designs and change bobbins.


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## totalstitch (Apr 8, 2007)

If your just plan on doing strictly businesses and school logo's most are 1 to 4 colors. We have a retail store which we do alot of monograms and single designs from dakota's as well as businesses and schools so the 15 needle machines have been great for us. Sometimes I wish we had more needles. As stated above also with a 15 needle you can keep base colors in the center and keep the outside needles for the added colors not used as much.


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