# NEW Epson F-Series Dye-Sub Printer to debut at ISS Long Beach



## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Guess I'll be going for at least one day to see the machines (44" and 64") up close.

Hate when you get a flier in the mail with a website to "see for more details", only for the item not to be there when you visit. 

Strike one, EPSON.

Flier goes on to say that their "printers are designed to be used exclusively with the specially-formulated Epson inks, and not with other brands of cartridges or inks." Doubt I'll be switching from J-Teck...


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

JYA said:


> Guess I'll be going for at least one day to see the machines (44" and 64") up close.
> 
> Hate when you get a flier in the mail with a website to "see for more details", only for the item not to be there when you visit.
> 
> ...


Marcelo - can you forward the flier to me - usual email address. This has created a buzz and I have some interest. This will all come down to cost of the ink.

What this potentially does is remove all the warranty BS that goes on with all the scumbag distributors who void warranties as a hobby. 

I am a big fan of J-Teck ink as well but when it comes to buy a new printer and I can avoid all the warranty BS and have competitve ink pricing I would seriously consider the switch.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

I wonder if they'll use a similar set up to the driver on the Epson L series printers with the built in CISS, where you have to enter the serial number of the ink bottle to enable the printer driver to recognise that it has been filled with the correct ink.
Has anyone seen if the L series printers have alternative hacked drivers available to get round this for using other inks?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Marcello - you still attending the show? Look forward to peoples comment that get to see the printer and better understand operating cost, etc.

I know Daniel from Digitially Driven is attending as well.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Yes, going tomorrow. Will pick up whatever info there is and send it out to you.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I will be there, and this is one of the items I'm going to be looking at. I'm not interested so much as a product to buy, but the fact that Epson has gotten tired of leaving money on the table. I'm keen to see what else they're bringing to the market, other than their brand name.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

JYA said:


> Yes, going tomorrow. Will pick up whatever info there is and send it out to you.


 
I see the printer has made it to the Epson website - looks like the 42" is $8,500 which puts it inline with similar printers.

Now it comes down to ink cost and warranty. If you could find out warranty that would be appreciated. I notice that Epson has Wasatch superimposed on the printer thumbnail. Wondering if it is part of the syetm or they just cut a marketing deal with Wasatch?


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

looking forward to more info. wish I was at the show!


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

uncletee said:


> looking forward to more info. wish I was at the show!


I hear you Uncle. Is the head any different then existing head? If not will they keep it to themselves or sell/license the head to likes of Roland, Mutoh, etc that use their heads now?

If it is just ink what is holding them back from entering the desktop market down the road. Imagine a dye sub system similar to the Epson available overseas that has its own CIS as part of the solution. If the head is truly different then their standard desktop printers coming out then it may not make sense. If the head is the same as the technology today why as a company do I want to limit my ink to wide format?

Could be a game changer. Could be a pipe dream.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Mark, I will check on all of this tomorrow, however, if I were a betting man, I'd say that much of the 64" machine crosses over to their 64" solvent. 

There is a pic of the printhead, and, the solvent comes with ONYX, so, dye sub could come with Wasatch, although, I am contemplating a move to ErgoSoft.

Will find out for sure tomorrow and post pics and info here in the thread...


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

looking forward to reading your report JYA


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

No problem Dave. I'm sure your interest is more in the 64"...


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

Hey Guys. 

The 44" printer will likely be the first to be sold with an expected release date of March. The printer will be coming in at $8500 with a 1 year on site warranty and is bundled with Wasatch. The 64" model will be priced at $19,995 and is also bundled with wasatch and a 1 year warranty. Smallest drop size is 5.4 picoliter (if I remember correctly), which should allow for better resolution for hard substrate printing in 4 color mode. Ink price is expected to be around $125/liter but pricing is not firm yet. Printer speeds were about 171/300/600 sq. feet an hour in the 3 modes listed on their brochure. Sorry, I'm not being exact but I left the brochure in the car. The 64" comes standard with a takeup. I believe the 44" comes with an optional takeup. Not sure the pricing but would expect it to be around $1500. If you have any other questions I'll try my best to answer.

Daniel Schelin
Digitally Driven
702-234-3178


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

danielschelin said:


> Hey Guys.
> 
> The 44" printer will likely be the first to be sold with an expected release date of March. The printer will be coming in at $8500 with a 1 year on site warranty and is bundled with Wasatch. The 64" model will be priced at $19,995 and is also bundled with wasatch and a 1 year warranty. Smallest drop size is 5.4 picoliter (if I remember correctly), which should allow for better resolution for hard substrate printing in 4 color mode. Ink price is expected to be around $125/liter but pricing is not firm yet. Printer speeds were about 171/300/600 sq. feet an hour in the 3 modes listed on their brochure. Sorry, I'm not being exact but I left the brochure in the car. The 64" comes standard with a takeup. I believe the 44" comes with an optional takeup. Not sure the pricing but would expect it to be around $1500. If you have any other questions I'll try my best to answer.
> 
> ...


WOW! That really is incredible. If I recall we paid around $2K for Wasatch alone. Add to that the comfort of an on-site maintenance for a year without voided warranty issues.

I am so in if everything remains as it is known today. I will get some extra duct tape to hold the Mutoh together till March.

Did they show any samples Daniel? If so what is your opinion on the colors it is putting out?


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

danielschelin said:


> Hey Guys.
> 
> The 44" printer will likely be the first to be sold with an expected release date of March. The printer will be coming in at $8500 with a 1 year on site warranty and is bundled with Wasatch. The 64" model will be priced at $19,995 and is also bundled with wasatch and a 1 year warranty. Smallest drop size is 5.4 picoliter (if I remember correctly), which should allow for better resolution for hard substrate printing in 4 color mode. Ink price is expected to be around $125/liter but pricing is not firm yet. Printer speeds were about 171/300/600 sq. feet an hour in the 3 modes listed on their brochure. Sorry, I'm not being exact but I left the brochure in the car. The 64" comes standard with a takeup. I believe the 44" comes with an optional takeup. Not sure the pricing but would expect it to be around $1500. If you have any other questions I'll try my best to answer.
> 
> ...


You just saved me a drive to the show! Thank you!


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## danielschelin (Apr 1, 2011)

Riderz Ready said:


> WOW! That really is incredible. If I recall we paid around $2K for Wasatch alone. Add to that the comfort of an on-site maintenance for a year without voided warranty issues.
> 
> I am so in if everything remains as it is known today. I will get some extra duct tape to hold the Mutoh together till March.
> 
> Did they show any samples Daniel? If so what is your opinion on the colors it is putting out?


Mark,

To be honest, the colors they were exhibiting were not inclusive. I have asked Wasatch to send me a default Linearization screen shot so I can see how the values compare to current inks in the market. I should have that information next week. I really expect everything to be good. They did have a nice setup though. They had the printer, maxipress, and even a sewer making the garment. 

Daniel


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

What drives me nuts about trade show set up's is, they pour ink on the paper so the printer looks like it is printing the final product. Of course if you would use this trade show amount of ink the colors will be awesome and so will the cost and the about of ink left on the paper in the trash can$$$$$$.
This is what every company selling printers and ink do at trade show. The more ink in the trash cand the more the ink company sells.

This week I got a sample of the new GO RIO Neon Ink. 

I am temped to try it in are roland 6 color printer.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

skdave said:


> What drives me nuts about trade show set up's is, they pour ink on the paper so the printer looks like it is printing the final product. Of course if you would use this trade show amount of ink the colors will be awesome and so will the cost and the about of ink left on the paper in the trash can$$$$$$.
> This is what every company selling printers and ink do at trade show. The more ink in the trash cand the more the ink company sells.
> 
> This week I got a sample of the new GO RIO Neon Ink.
> ...


And your ink costs would sky rocket! LOL

I'm sticking with J-Teck. They've been great to me and my business, with no problems/clogs. 

When I get serious about buying the new printer, we'll see what happens. For me, Roland is a great option as they are located 3 miles down the street, so, we'll see what the Epson looks like...


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

JYA said:


> And your ink costs would sky rocket! LOL
> 
> I'm sticking with J-Teck. They've been great to me and my business, with no problems/clogs.
> 
> When I get serious about buying the new printer, we'll see what happens. For me, Roland is a great option as they are located 3 miles down the street, so, we'll see what the Epson looks like...


For me it is not about the ink it is about a Mutoh printer that is a disaster. Three heads in 1.5 years.
Mutoh has been pretty generous but I am still out of pocket a good chunk of change and just being down a day or two causes us issues.

For me it is about having a warranted system, cost effective ink pricing and great colors. J-Teck is great but provides only two of the three. 

As far as the ink useage at a show. It is pretty easy just by looking at the paper and how it comes off the printer to see if they saurating the ink levels. Furthermore on past wide format Epsons you can tell exactly how much ink you used for a simgle print job. They have a really cool report that shows the last 10 or 20 print jobs. If all else fails Wasatch will give you a rough idea on the ink useage by file as well.

Just have to do a little home work when it comes to ink useage and profiles. 

Daniel - is there any specs on how much printing hours, etc the new printer is rated for - if there really is such a thing?

When Mutoh inquired they really made a point that the RJ900 was not what they consider a true "production" printer and was more of a entry level/moderate use printer in comparison to their other printers. My guess is they were implying we were pushing its capactiy .


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

JYA said:


> And your ink costs would sky rocket! LOL
> 
> I'm sticking with J-Teck. They've been great to me and my business, with no problems/clogs.
> 
> When I get serious about buying the new printer, we'll see what happens. For me, Roland is a great option as they are located 3 miles down the street, so, we'll see what the Epson looks like...


Why would my INK cost sky Rocket? I'm missing something here. Now I pay $165 a liter Go ink is $125.

I use ERGO soft as a rip and I track every penny on every job we run.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Dave, you should talk to Daniel about J-Teck with all the ink you use.

As far as the Epson, I am standing at the printer and the banding on the prints is absolutely brutal.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

John we use to use j tech. until the owner of the company came to our office and made a *** out of himself. Never used it since. We use Sensient tech.
on my own paper that I have made to my spec. which you should try at .045 a square foot. My ink runs .02-.06 a sq ft.depending on profile.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

skdave said:


> Why would my INK cost sky Rocket? I'm missing something here. Now I pay $165 a liter Go ink is $125.
> 
> I use ERGO soft as a rip and I track every penny on every job we run.


Going rate from most vendors is $125 a liter. Inkteck you can drop down below $100. I would switch inks in a second for $40 a liter. That is a big ***** of change at the end of the year.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Had really nice and long discussion with the Epson people. It is quite obvious that there are some kinks to work out with the printers and profiles.

Something to note with these printers is that you aren't just buying the printers. You are buying into a complete, long term program of ink.

The prices are turnkey, thus, printer + RIP + ink. All you need are your designs and a computer to run the RIP, and you are ready to rock and roll.

Epson is in the process of selecting dealers that will carry these new printers and they expect the printers to be available for sale in April or May.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using T-Shirt Forums


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## valleyboy_1 (Jan 23, 2010)

Hey I know you guys are into sublimation, and that's cool, however I was looking at the new epson surecolor t3000 series for inkjet transfers. It has new ultra chrome pigment based inks, and a roll feed solution. Perfect in my eyes for the roll feed Jpss papers and 3G opaque for darks. I was wondering what you guys think of this printer for that purpose. A lot of the older epson models have print head issues, and I wouldn't mind testing out the newer technology.


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 13, 2013)

any updates on this printer...when it comes out, does it produce vivid colors, have they worked out the kinks, who is going to sale them etc?
I am currently in the market for a new printer & we are in the stated window of march-may


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Uncle Remus said:


> any updates on this printer...when it comes out, does it produce vivid colors, have they worked out the kinks, who is going to sale them etc?
> I am currently in the market for a new printer & we are in the stated window of march-may


Last email I got from the Product Manager (2-3 weeks ago) was that they won't have product until late April/early May.


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks...so another 4-6 weeks, geez
I was hoping for like 2 weeks, wonder if its worth waiting for?


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Uncle Remus said:


> Thanks...so another 4-6 weeks, geez
> I was hoping for like 2 weeks, wonder if its worth waiting for?


If this is your first venture into wide format it would b worth waiting. There are so many warranty issues, etc in the wide format arena that by having a single source solution that is fully warranted will save you a ton of stress and potentially money.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, if you have the budget for a brand new system, then definitely wait for the official Epson route.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

I would never buy a machine of any kind during the first year. Pioneers come back with arrows in thier butts.


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 13, 2013)

I am pretty sure Epson knows how to make a printer that dont really bother me, what does worry me is being trapped into using only epsons ink, if it turns out to suck your screwed.

I am sure using 3rd party inks is not going to be an option, they are even cracking down on their small format printers if you do a firmware update you cant use anything but epson ink.

I do like the 1 yr onsite warranty & if the inks do print good & stay the same price then i think its a winner, but thats lots of if's right now


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## valleyboy_1 (Jan 23, 2010)

Epson need to step it up and make a printer cutter, it's good to seem them go sublimation route. Maybe they'll make a printer solution for roll feed inkjet transfers similar to Go UNO Laser printer minus the roll.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Uncle Remus said:


> I am pretty sure Epson knows how to make a printer that dont really bother me, what does worry me is being trapped into using only epsons ink, if it turns out to suck your screwed.
> 
> I am sure using 3rd party inks is not going to be an option, they are even cracking down on their small format printers if you do a firmware update you cant use anything but epson ink.
> 
> I do like the 1 yr onsite warranty & if the inks do print good & stay the same price then i think its a winner, but thats lots of if's right now


The whole point of this solution is that it is a single source solution. Using someone elses ink is pointless.

The advantage of a single source solution is the warranty and with Epson you now have a manufactures warranty. That is gold. I am not aware of any wide format printer that you can use dye sub ink in and not void the manufactures warranty. You have to rely on the ink provider for the warranty. 

Personally I think it is worth the wait as Epson wide formats have been well designed in comparison to other wide format printers.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Riderz Ready said:


> The whole point of this solution is that it is a single source solution. Using someone elses ink is pointless.
> 
> The advantage of a single source solution is the warranty and with Epson you now have a manufactures warranty. That is gold. I am not aware of any wide format printer that you can use dye sub ink in and not void the manufactures warranty. You have to rely on the ink provider for the warranty.
> 
> Personally I think it is worth the wait as Epson wide formats have been well designed in comparison to other wide format printers.


I haven't dug into all the financing details in this area but I would assume that it would be easier to get something like this financed or leased.

Not sure I would loan someone money to purchase or lease something like this without the manufacturer standing behind it or if it was kludged to work.

Looked at flatbeds a while back and Brother has a huge advantage in this respect ... 

1. They make something designed specifically for the task and stand behind it.

2. A well known name and company.


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 13, 2013)

i see Conde is taking pre-orders, but they are unclear when it will be released.

Anybody made the jump yet?

Personally i need to see it in action & check out the results before i commit $$


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Uncle Remus said:


> i see Conde is taking pre-orders, but they are unclear when it will be released.
> 
> Anybody made the jump yet?
> 
> Personally i need to see it in action & check out the results before i commit $$


Hard to jump on something that does not exist to the general public. Lot of questions out there on the solution and until it is formalized by Epson it is all a guess.

I heard things, from reliable sources, that the warranty is 2 service calls. Antoher source says the warranty is three months unless you register the machine with Epson and use Epson ink and paper which it then goes to a year. The paper thing is a bit over the top and would be a real hurdle for Epson unless they have cost effective paper to offer.

This is all too new - heck there were issues with the new generation Epson print heads never the less a new solution and new ink. They can test these until they are blue in the face but until there are a significant number of these in a real production environment no one will know.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

Uncle Remus said:


> i see Conde is taking pre-orders, but they are unclear when it will be released.
> 
> Anybody made the jump yet?
> 
> Personally i need to see it in action & check out the results before i commit $$


I was told last weekend at ISA that the printers won't be available for delivery until June.

I will say that they have come a long way since ISS Long Beach as far as how the final product looks. They had metal done up at ISA and it was top notch. The textile based products were mainly black and their black is far more black than it was in January.

I will be meeting with Epson next week with regards to the printer and hope to be able to post more and answer some of your questions then.


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## twnfinn (Jun 24, 2013)

Wanted to check if anybody has more news about release date, ink costs, warranty etc? My local Epson retailer cant get me an answer when this is available (they don't really know anything about this). 

debating if its worth the wait or not...


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