# Losing our minds! PLEASE HELP!



## knownfelon (Oct 8, 2013)

Hey Everyone!

So me and my partner are at a bit of standstill here with our clothing line. We have done everything we can think of to produce a quality piece.

We are noobs when it comes to the t-shirt printing industry. We are slowly learning but we just cant seem to get anything right. We have a high demand for our product but cannot produce the proper quality for our customers.

So at first we got one of the local shops to press vinyl onto our tees...but the tees shrunk and the vinyl didn't. There goes that idea!

Next, we tried screenprinting....ugh....another headache! The prints were cracking and crumbling in the wash and were not consistent throughout the tees and hoodies.

Now we are on plastisol transfers! They look beautiful and they are consistent but........when we wash them they are starting to come up off the tee. We thought we had enough pressure and proper temps when we were pressing them.

I just pressed 72 tees which we thought were good enough to sell. They are not. We have tried repressing with a teflon sheet (failed), we have tried reressing with parchment sheets (failed), I would like to possibly save these tees and sell them...even at a cheaper cost to recoup some of the money, but it doesnt look like we are gonna be able to from what I gather.

If anyone has any insight into a possibly better method of printing that will last in the washer besides plastisol transfers, vinyl or screenprinting, it would be greatly appreciated!

That or any ideas on how to save these tees!

CALLING ALL VETERANS! PLEASE HELP!

Thanks!!!!!

P.S. The tees are are proclub, and the plastisol transfers are being pressed at 380 on high pressure, ranging from 8-12 seconds! Repressing for the same amount of time and temp pulls some of the plastisol up, and destroys the print!!!!!


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## larry (Mar 6, 2007)

knownfelon
If the transfers are from a major company, I think it is your press. Is your press air or manual?? Send me or someone else to do a test print and the will help answer your question.

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knownfelon said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> So me and my partner are at a bit of standstill here with our clothing line. We have done everything we can think of to produce a quality piece.
> 
> ...


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## joey1320 (Feb 21, 2012)

You can't repress plastisol transfers cause the heat will melt the ink. So don't do that. 

As far as the quality of the transfer, what company are you getting them from? Different companies use different chemicals, which change the pressing time and pressure.

Are you following the directions for pressing and washing properlly? 

Screenprinting would be the best but it seems like you got a bad printer your first time around. I would suggest looking for another printer, preferably one with a good reputation. There are many good printers here, so I'm sure you can get the results you want from one of them.

Sent from my HTC One X using T-Shirt Forums


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## knownfelon (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks for the help! I really wish I could find someone here who can accommodate our sizes. We are doin big prints. Our largest is 17 X 21! Trying to find a decent heat press that's not an outrageous amount of money, is getting annoying already! I really wish I could find a screenprinter who is willing to work with us!

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## knownfelon (Oct 8, 2013)

Larry,

I might take you up on that offer! Maybe I'll send you a tee and a transfer and see if you can press it and maybe get the results I want! Thanks!

Sent from my SGH-I317M using T-Shirt Forums


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Are you trying to press a transfer larger than your press?...


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## Red Leaf (Feb 2, 2011)

Screen printing is the way to go. If you got some printing done and it cracked and washed off, your printer did not cure properly. In my opinion the print should outlast the shirt if it is done correctly.


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## Sunjoa (Oct 25, 2011)

Is there any possibility it is the shirts? It seems that is the constant throughout this ordeal.


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## msiok (Mar 20, 2009)

I agree with Red Leaf. Sounds like the screen print was not cured properly. It should not crack and peel off. We have customers with shirts that have lasted over 10 years. The shirt finally gives way before the print.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

I know it can be exasperating when things don't work out, but this really isn't a major problem that your facing. Your ink isn't cured. Which mean your press wasn't hot enough to get the ink up to 320 or your not pressing for long enough. I don't see why you couldn't press the shirts again to cure them. I press mine at 375 for around 40 seconds at medium pressure. Another option is to call some local screen printing shops and ask if you can run your shirts through they're dryer just to save this batch. If it's in your budget you could also look into buying a flash dryer. That way you could screen print the shirts and cure them with the flash and not have to heat press them. Heat pressing works but imo opinion it gives the ink a crappy look and feel compared to just printing and curing the ink. You just need to experiment more. Try overkill on some test shirts. Maybe press one for two full minutes, one for a minute and a half, one for a minute, and one for 45 seconds. Then wash em and see what happens.


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## knownfelon (Oct 8, 2013)

Yeah I'll give it a shot! But it seems the longer I press, the more of the transfer comes off! Is there suppose to be any ink left on the transfer sheet? 

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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

I've never heard of proclub but I checked them out. If that price on the website is what you're paying then you aren't only losing your mind. You're losing $$$ too. I don't know where you're located but I'll offer to test them too on your shirt AND a normal gildan or sanmar shirt. I think Dane may be on to something by saying that the shirts seem like the only constant and it does happen where they get coated with some type of non stick (easy clean) teflon scotchguard type thing. It's rare, but there have been times when it's the problem. My location is in my info and if you're close to me you can either mail or drop it if you need to save on shipping. Have you tried a different shirt? 

I also agree with the others that screen printing SHOULD be the way to go, but only when you're looking for higher numbers in qty. PM me if you want me to test out and I'll give you my mailing address.


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

the problem is im about 98% sure its the pro club I hate to press on them T-shirts there the thickest t-shirts ever. you have to pre press for like 15 to 20 seconds before pressing the plastisol transfer on but regardless its still going to crack and breakup that's what silkscreen does using plastisol. 

Plastisol transfer is the same thing as silk-screening except its printed on transfer paper and not directly on the shirt.

You said you had someone try and do vinyl or are you talking about inkjet transfer paper? cause HTV Vinyl out last the garment and wont shrink, crack or peel if applied right.


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

drdoct said:


> I've never heard of proclub but I checked them out. If that price on the website is what you're paying then you aren't only losing your mind. You're losing $$$ too. I don't know where you're located but I'll offer to test them too on your shirt AND a normal gildan or sanmar shirt. I think Dane may be on to something by saying that the shirts seem like the only constant and it does happen where they get coated with some type of non stick (easy clean) teflon scotchguard type thing. It's rare, but there have been times when it's the problem. My location is in my info and if you're close to me you can either mail or drop it if you need to save on shipping. Have you tried a different shirt?
> 
> I also agree with the others that screen printing SHOULD be the way to go, but only when you're looking for higher numbers in qty. PM me if you want me to test out and I'll give you my mailing address.


 You never hear of pro club that the #1 Cali and Vegas T-Shirt for thickness. its like 10oz lol hella thick. you could wear it with no under shirt and be warm all day and night. but wholesale is like $55 for 1/2 Dozen White lol.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

Try acetransfersupply. They're paper is awesome Are you using the adhesive powder and also is it cold peel?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

The Adhesive powder is put on by the Plastisol Transfers company, not the end user.

You mentioned t-shirts, but did you mention 100% cotton or a blend? What about the model of t-shirt?


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## dbarry55 (May 10, 2007)

You have to start with a good pre-shrunk T-shirt, in my shop we used 100% cotton Gilden for most of our work. We did screen printing, heat transfers and vinyl. Make sure your heat press is the right temp so check the heating surface with a gage. With the exception of heat transfers that began to fade after about a dozen washing everything we did out lasted the shirts. If you're thinking about doing you own screen printing youtube has dozens of videos showing you how to get started, be sure to look at the video "screening with vinyl". Wished I had seen it while I was still running my shop, before I retired and got out, it would have saved me hundreds of dollars and many hours with preparing screens. Hope this helps.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

I was under the impression that they were printing they're own transfers.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I thought they said they used transfers. Meaning, they started with Transfers, then moved on to screen printing. I.E. they had someone screen print for them.


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

I just re-read they're original post. I'm really not sure. In any case I hope they figured it out.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

knownfelon said:


> I just pressed 72 tees which we thought were good enough to sell. They are not.


You don't give enough information to do anything other than throw guesses. Have you tried reading this post:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t176601.html

At the rate you are wasting shirts, a quality heat press would quickly pay for itself.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

yeah it's definitely your heat press. if pressed at the right temp with the right PRESSURE plastisol transfers will stick to a rock (no not really but...)

what type of press do you have? also why buy transfers for a press that won't accommodate that size design?

if you don't want the crack and peel of plastisol, find a printer who does water base and and/or discharge printing. the ink is actually printed into the fabric not on top of it.

i think you need to research more before dropping money on things you are unsure of.


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

For help you definitely have to let us know what type of heat press you're using. It's seems you used versatile did you call them for help? I have to say me personally I was disappointed with them myself. I did a little project before Halloween last year first time using them. It was a small run like 35 just for me and some friends. It had glow in the dark ink so I had to there EPT( error proof transfer) Followed the instructions and my first 2 didn't press correctly. Called them up they told me to up my pressure it was on already on 8 and up my temp 5-10 degrees. At close to 7 bucks a transfer who the h$$$ is going to continue testing? How is it that error proof and 40 cents extra per copy. Lol Anyway hope everything works out for you!


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Versatrans I'm sorry in on my phone dumb auto correct lol


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

i used versatrans and their stuff worked great for me.

most of the time in in the persons equipment. you get what you pay for. i'm wondering what type of press it is.


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have a Hix HE 400P


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Hix HT 400P sorry


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## 2020 PrintWorks (Apr 22, 2011)

Probably not the press then. It's really just a matter of getting the ink to the right temp. It's just trial and error.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Versatranz does good work so typically not a transfer issue.....But all suppliers can have a "hickup" from time to time....


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

yep hix is a good press.

a lot of people go cheap and buy a $200 14 x 16 on ebay and wonder why the temp isn't correct etc.


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah I understand that. I almost made that mistake until I got on this forum and learned about the importance of quality equipment. Now once I played with the temp and applied more pressure the transfers worked fine and are still good after many washes. My main issue is the idea of paying extra for something that is supposed to be error proof and then having to be use trail and error to get it right.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

kbarnhill3733 said:


> My main issue is the idea of paying extra for something that is supposed to be error proof and then having to be use trail and error to get it right.


i here ya.

i give a company one shot. if they don't do something to make up their mistake, i'll never go back, i don't care if other people love them or not.

not to knock versatrans, like i said when i used their stuff it was fine.


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## joey1320 (Feb 21, 2012)

> Yeah I understand that. I almost made that mistake until I got on this forum and learned about the importance of quality equipment. Now once I played with the temp and applied more pressure the transfers worked fine and are still good after many washes. My main issue is the idea of paying extra for something that is supposed to be error proof and then having to be use trail and error to get it right.


Well it is error proof, as long as you are using it the right way. 

There are many variables to pressing and curing ink, time, temp, moisture, pressure, chemicals on the dye and so on. So although you went with a good, reputable source for your stuff, you still need to get those all down.

Here's what I do when heatpressing designs: 

Heat press to 5 degrees above required temp. Once it reaches set temp, I then lower it to the set point. 

Press the lower platen/mat for 30 seconds, twice. 

Prepress the shirt for 5 seconds. 

Apply transfer as recommended. 

Peel as recommended.

Pull shirt off press and stretch a bit.

Now the first transfer is very important, it will ler you know if you need more/less pressure, too high/low of a temp, issues with the shirts material and so forth. So please take a few seconds and inspect the transfer carefully. 

Now if the first one did not press correctly but you followed all the recommended steps, usually the best thing to do is up the temp by 5 degress or the time by 5 seconds.

Now instead of pressing a new shirt, cut one of the transfers in 4 pieces and press an area of the already pressed shirt and see what happens. Now you have 4 new "testers" you can try at different settings.

Best of luck!!!

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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Using it the right way?


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## joey1320 (Feb 21, 2012)

kbarnhill3733 said:


> Using it the right way?


I dont get the question marks.

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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I think he's saying, What's the right way. 

Great Answer Joey. Most people expect miracles of their equipment. 

We have to remember, if we buy cheap products the output will match what we input into our products.


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

I would assume that the right way would be to follow the instruction given by the company. So if I use the recommended temp, pressure, and time wouldn't that be the right way to do things?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

No, the Transfer, vinyl, or plastisol company provides the instructions. So you need to consider both companies instructions.


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't use cheap equipment. The shirts I used were also not cheap. I'm not expecting a miracle but what i do expect if something is supposed to ERROR PROOF and I follow there instruction for it to work.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

hey like everything we first try there is a learning curve no matter what it is......tying your shoes or cooking an egg. so it took you a couple of tries before everything worked out and now you know that all it was was adjusting a couple of settings.

hix makes great heat presses. that doesn't mean however that it was calibrated correctly. the temp could be off and you might not even know. it's good to get a temp tool that is able to read temps from your heat platen. i've been very lucky with my machine. in the 15 years of owning it there's only been one major malfunction which was the heat platen dying altogether but it;s guaranteed for life so i just sent it back to g. knight and they sent me back a new one.

nothing in my experience is ever foolproof. most of the mistakes in this business i've made myself just by carelessness (not saying this happened with you) but to the original thread starter i would say you can't expect to just start a biz with no experience in the field unless you hire people that have had that or you research and test from the ground up.


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## joey1320 (Feb 21, 2012)

selanac said:


> I think he's saying, What's the right way.
> 
> Great Answer Joey. Most people expect miracles of their equipment.
> 
> We have to remember, if we buy cheap products the output will match what we input into our products.



Yes one would assume so but considering there are many variables, one can't really say it is plug and play. 

I myself have a cheap heat press and although it can sometimes act a bit quirky, I know how to use it to its full potential. 

So buying the most expensive equipment is not necessarily the only answer, its getting to know your equipment in and out. 

Also a higher priced shirt doesn't equate to a better transfer foundation. I use everyday brands like Gildan, Anvil and Hanes and they press great - most of the time. Sometimes a batch of them just doesn't do what I expect them to and what I they have done in the past. This is due to the chemicals used to dye the cotton/fabric and all other chemicals. 

So yes, the right equipment helps. But we are not dealing with minute rice, so all outside variables gotta be taken into consideration.

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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Tim I appeciate your comment.


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Phillips what you said is true.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

kbarnhill3733 said:


> I have a Hix HE 400P


Are you the OP posting from 2 different accounts?


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## kbarnhill3733 (Jul 6, 2013)

Why would you ask that?


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