# Are my expecttions to high for plastisol transfers?



## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi everyone.

I have been trying to create my own plastisol transfers so I can put a 2inch 1 colour logo (a solid colour silhouette with 21pt text under it) on either the back of the neck or chest on 100% cotton gildan shirts. I will also create 1 colour internal size labels if I can get things right. I currently have artbrand designs that are printing on the shirts lovely so this is the last pice of the puzzle.

The trouble I am having is the print rubs off to easily imho, but after a dedicated week of trying I am stumped, and wonder if my expectations are to high for transfers.

To try and give an idea of what I mean, If Mr/Mrs Jones were to spill ketchup down there top and take it to the sink to rub it out of the shirt the transfer would start to rub away.
If you were to click your fingers firmly and the shirt was in between it would rub off.
A gentle rub or wipe would have to be continuous to do the same thing.

I have done this 10 mins after final curing and it rubs off, waited till the next day and it rubs off, put a garment through the wash twice and it rubs off.

If the transfers I apply from artbrands did the same thing I would say "thats transfers for you", but they dont and are my only measuring tool really.

I am using amex pk plastisol ink from dave roper, and their adhesive and cold peel paper. I have also tried it through new 230 and 155 mesh screens and I have a 110 to try.

Can anyone try the rubbing I have done on there transfers to see if I am just being to picky before I spend another week of troubleshooting? I planned to do some one colour transfer designs to bulk out my inventory, but would not be happy with this quality if this is the norm.
I have attached a photo, not the best as its off my phone.

Thanks in advance , Steve


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## nslette (Feb 1, 2013)

There are two things you want to look at:

1. Is your ink cured? Your plastisol ink should cure at 320 F. We typically press our transfers at 350 F for 5-10 seconds to ensure that the ink is fully cured.

2. What type of adhesive are you using? If you are using a powder adhesive, is it fine, medium, or coarse grain? The fine grain will have a softer feel, but the adhesion will not be as strong. The coarse grain will feel more stiff, but will ahere more easily to your shirt. The powder should be applied to wet ink before it is run through the dryer. I would not recommend mixing the adhesive with the ink. 

From what I can see in your picture the issue seems to be with your ink. Try giving it a little more time and pressure in the heat press.


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

Who manufactures that gold ink out of curiosity?


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

inkrediblenz - The ink is actually black, its just my poor photo skills under a kitchen spotlight .

nslette - I have been messing around with different settings all week, so I was trying to get an idea of wether I was expecting to much from the transfers as I have tried loooooooads of settings without great sucess.

I am doing another test tonight, I think I have the press the transfer to full cure down pat, it feels like a rubbery texture, and the stretch test seems really good, stretching without cracking. and I am around the same settings as yourself for that.
I am thinking the problem lies in the gel cure, I have been trying to get the gelling to a peel off consistancy that doesnt unroll or slightly under.

The adhesive powder I have is very fine ike flour, so if this doesnt work I am thinking of trying different ink/powder combo, do you have any recommendations?
Thanks Steve


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi everyone.

I did some more tests today and videoed what I did, they were at lower gelling temps and pressed to cure at 347 degrees, it shows the results I am getting. I have tried gelling at higher temps so I the get a peel and also tried full cure to higher temps

Would appreciate any advice as I only have a few days left now before a market I am booked in for, sorry its in portrait and a little long but its my first ever video . Here is the link.

https://youtu.be/p6A9pdFrA2M


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

Quite a detailed video there. Not bad for a simple set-up, I've never used a heat-press to gel transfers but can't see why you can't, straight away though Id say your gel cure time is a little short. Well short.

Transfers are a little tricky being a couple of the steps are quite critical in ensuring the result has longevity, you can cut corners in a bunch of places from beginning to end but the critical steps are the ink density and choice of adhesive crystals used, then the gelling process, and finally the pressing on the garment. 

That fine powder gives mixed results on cotton and it's directly related to ink film weight. I limit my use of the fine powder to meshes 68T(metric) and above. 

Think of the transfer method as welding instead of layered adhesion. When you heat-press the transfer you're essentially changing the rheology of the ink/crystals and welding it all to the garment, all three components form a mixed "welded" bond instead of 'ink-glue-shirt'.

Like welding if you're short on flux or shielding gas the weld will be sketchy. Likewise transfers, too much ink and not enough adhesive crystals you'll have the same result.

A medium weight crystal will give you better results because it's a lot more forgiving from the start. I use Wilflex crystals, has the consistency close to table salt and I'm pretty sure they only produce the one weight of crystal so you can't go wrong there.

There's a chunky heavyweight crystal available from Union/Rutland that feels like sugar, it's tricky to use, so don't. The fine stuff is at the same end of the scale, you have to follow a fairly tight narrative with both products to get what you want out of them.

You can get by with what you have, experiment longer with the gel time under the heat-press there, or hit it with a heatgun. Hold the heatgun over the transfer an inch above and keep it moving slowly over the sheet, you can visibly see the ink/crystals setting off. Get it so you can peel a hunk of transfer off and screw it into a ball with your fingertips, not a tight compressed ball, more of a massage. 

Drop it and watch what happens. If it unravels it's overcured, if it stays packed/stuck in a ball without moving its undercured. If it bounces out and has the beginnings of unravelling it's roughly about right. Very unscientific but is a good rough guide, usually this gelling process is done with a belt dryer so quite easy to achieve constant results.

The Wilflex crystals are a lot easier to see working, you can watch them melting under a heatgun, or flash, or probably a heat-press.

To get by with what you have I'd be bumping up the gel time under the heat-press. The symptoms you describe lean towards an undercured/undergelled transfer.


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi Inkrediblenz,
Thanks for that, really interesting. Thats the best information I have found on gelling, and its been really helpfull. I am doing some more tests tonight and tomorrow, longer dwell for gelling @135, and also temp increases so will put up the results when I am done.

If i get no luck from these tests its off to buy a heat gun tomorrow, I am keen to try the medium coarse powder as well, do you have a name for the supplier? I have googled and the one I found that sells wilflex (colenso) said wilflex doesnt make an adhesive powder, but they themselves have one that sounds like what you describe.

Thanks Steve


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

I have done a test to try and ind the gel point for ink with adhesive.
I have determined through previous tests that 135 degrees for my press was to low to try and gel, so have run this test at 165.

If possible could people comment as to what point they think the gel point/range is in the test, here is a link to the video footage.

https://youtu.be/K1upjoR3vhY

I have run some tests pressing the results as well and will post those when I have edited it tomorrow.

Thanks a lot everyone.
Steve


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

If you've transferred from around 10 - 20 seconds onto a shirt and labelled which is which, then washed the shirt, it'll give you better indication.

If your transfers are undercured (undergelled) the image will wash off. If they're overcured they will crack after a few washes.

I'd be pressing those transfers onto your shirt in one press for 12 seconds at 165 degrees. Writing the gel times underneath in permanent marker and throwing the shirt through 5 wash/dry cycles. This will be a reasonable test for the effectiveness of your methods - which admittedly are a little sketchy around the gelling process. 

One thing I've personally done for a long time is add a bit of Wilflex stretch additive to my transfer plastisol mixes, actually all my inks. Wilflex says up to 5% from memory. I usually grab a bit on the end of a pallet knife and mix it in, it's a pretty helpful product, something you could look at down the track a bit.


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## inkspotslo (Feb 8, 2007)

You are having way two much trouble with something so simple. 

I would try to print directly to the garment without the adhesive and cure in the heat press normally.

If it still rubs off then I would start with a different brand of plastisol ink.

You also need to know what temperature your heat press is. You also need to know what temperature you are gelling at. 260-280 degrees at the most. IR heat gun will give you those readings.


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi inkrediblenz, thanks for all the help.

I have tried a test now and put it through some washes, the results were awfull. On one side of the shirt I put gel times across the top, and pressed for 12 seconds, I did three batches, 164, 171 and 176 degrees. All were wrinkly or patches coming off after 1 wash let alone the 2nd.

On the other side I did gel time across the top and pressed at 165 degrees. Down the side were press times of 8, 12, 16, 20 and 24 seconds. All wrinkly or patches coming off aswell.

So a time test and heat setting test on those I gelled in the video didnt work 

I cant get videos up at the moment, so here are some pics instead.

I am waiting on some crystal samples from the wilflex supplier so will give them a go when they come through, I also now have a heat gun so will try that as well.


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi Inkspotslo, thanks for the response.



inkspotslo said:


> You are having way two much trouble with something so simple.


I agree, I thought this would be a lot easier than it is turning out 



inkspotslo said:


> I would try to print directly to the garment without the adhesive and cure in the heat press normally.


I will give it a go today, I have a laser and a heat gun now so will try to cure some on the press and some with the heat gun.



inkspotslo said:


> If it still rubs off then I would start with a different brand of plastisol ink.


Do you have any recommendations from your experience doing transfers, I only want to do single colour atm for my neck logo/labels. I think I read somewhere that unioninks make one specifically for transfers, I dont know if you have any experience of it?



inkspotslo said:


> You also need to know what temperature your heat press is. You also need to know what temperature you are gelling at. 260-280 degrees at the most. IR heat gun will give you those readings.


I have an ir gun I use to measure the top/bottom platen, but it does not give a good reading through the 1 inch gap when I am gelling, I will try and get a reading when I pull one out from the press (as close to the heat press edge as possible whilst I am sliding it out) but I will be able to point it at the heat gun area when I do that.


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

For what it's worth, and just to test your unconventional method of gelling/curing with a heat-press, I did my own right now.

Top pallet 1 inch above transfer.
Heat set at 162 degrees
I used Rutland m3 black printed through a 68t and am using unilon fine powder from Union ink.

It's been under there several minutes and doesn't look anything like being gelled suitable for a transfer. And by "several minutes" I mean enough time for me to get bored of it and realise it's not going to work. 3:00+ 

I grabbed a heatgun and got these where I wanted then in around 10 seconds. If that image shows, the mulholland logo is 40mm wide, and I didn't have much trouble peeling it off and laying it out reversed either.

I don't think I should have recommended the heatgun method, might be ok for me to do something here and there, but I wouldn't employ it often in a commercial situation. It's probably a good method to get the transfers touch dry, and after that you should find a local printer who'll let you run your sheets down their dryer.

Turn up with beer and I almost guarantee they won't turn you down. Likely they'll have transfers sorted and have a set beltspeed.


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Hi Inkrediblenz.

Sorry for the delay in responding, I had an event at the weekend and I was in a mad rush with the delays in getting a neck logo. But some good news is that I managed t get somewhat of a product that held up in the wash 

I bought a heat gun for the gelling and got some medium coarse adhesive, and with the ir temp gun in one hand and the heat gun in the other got the coated wet transfers up to 110, where I could see the adhesive react in the ink, and when cooled felt like a rough finish. But like you say it isnt a great way to do it (easy to undercure small areas, burn the paper or overcure).
As I could now see what was needed and that the heat gun blasts loads of heat, I wacked the heat up on the heat press up to 190, set it to about half an inch hover and got the same result in 12-15 seconds. EUREKA!

Then I had to get the curing right. Instead of focusing on the temp of the press, I pressed a shirt at the temp I had done, and immediatly measured it with the ir gun (I reckon 1/4 of a second lapsed), and it was hot enough to cure.
I did the same thing with a transfer on it, the temp reading on the back of the transfer paper was to low to cure. I assume the paper thickness added another layer that made it require more time or heat. 
So I wacked the press up to 190 and pressed a transfer again for 20 seconds, this time I got a transfer that held up in the wash .

I would say that is doesnt have the texture of the artbrands transfers (a kinda rubbery feel), it feels more like a drier vinyl, but it stretches. But at this point I had no time left to play with it any more.

Gonna do some more tests this weekend to see if I can get a better end product, thinking I will try using round edge of the emulsion coater to try and get a slightly thicker coating of ink on the paper, work my way backwards from 190 for the full cure to make sure I am not over curing. And I also have some rutland npt white and black ink to try. 

Defeat is not an option !


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

In the past when using a regular manual T-shirt press I've used a heatgun to get transfers touch dry to print again, or another colour on top. You use the heatgun as a pretty effective flash for conventional T-shirt printing too so not a dead-end purchase there.

Obviously the heatgun needs a little extra care and attention, but I went years using that system for quick one off flashing of transfers or printed tees in small runs, likely lots of others have done the same too.

I think the most effective transfer production tool are the small belt dryers available today. Dryers with a fabric infra red panel heater/element.
I had a vastex econored 1 and the control and stability over transfer production was stunning. Any of those little dryers with those particular infra red elements in the similar style will do it though.


You can cut a lot of corners or skin a cat 40 different ways starting from a piece of artwork and finishing with a branded garment. One of those dryers solves multiple issues and can bring a lot of unconventional practices back into line though.


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

I have to admit, it has become the first thing on my list of items to buy when I can generate the income, followed by an exposure unit.

I had coveted getting a 4 station press and flash dryer as my first items, but being able to generate better simple transfer designs fits my current business model more than the ability to generate multi colour designs I could mess up.

Thanks for all the tips and help, much appreciated


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

Direct print should work together with transfers. Obviously it becomes uneconomical at some stage to print/press transfers depending on size and quantity. 

I use both all the time. I might run out a left chest and sleeve logos as transfers and pass it off to a guy who'll press them on, and I just print a large back image on an auto.

Saves me a few setups and overall is just as quick when you factor everything in. And it frees the auto up to print whatever else needs to be printed.

Multi colour transfers aren't any problem with one of those small dryers and PET transfer media.
The attached image will be 9-10 colours when I'm done. It was quite tight and the minimal shrink you get in the media sees me having to tweak the white and adhesive final passes.


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## cupoftee (May 11, 2011)

Wow, thats an impressively clean crisp job 
I have tried to find information about the PET media as it sounds interesting. Do you have a brand name for it so I can do some research?


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## Printworksqld (Nov 9, 2010)

It's important that you don't cure the ink after you print & put through the oven, the powder should look frosted like sand paper, if it's shiny you have probably cured the ink & it won't transfer properly. The ink & powder should cross link when you press it, if it's cured it won't cross link & will rub off. When pressing a properly gelled transfer the ink remelts & crosslinks with the powder, cured plastisol won't remelt properly.


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## inkrediblenz (Feb 12, 2014)

cupoftee said:


> Wow, thats an impressively clean crisp job
> I have tried to find information about the PET media as it sounds interesting. Do you have a brand name for it so I can do some research?


Nah, I have a supplier in China and buy a few thousand sheets at a time.
You could probably try ebay or one of your local screenprint suppliers. Or Alibaba express at a last resort, there will be some in the UK though.

It's all pretty standard and I assume quite commonly used.
PET, 100Um, Matt release transfer media.

Pre-shrink it at the dryers gel temp/speed settings and away you go. The benefit of it is it'll barely shrink after being pre-shrunk unlike paper which will grow back to some other size between colours, so the rego is about as good as you can get.

I buy it in 640X480mm, so can print it in A2+, A3+ or A4+ sizes after guillotining. It's a pretty sweet product, the only downside is you don't get to use the superfine adhesive powder with it as the static in the sheet just grips a hold of the powder and you press adhesive everywhere you don't want it.

Generally I use a printable adhesive though, or at worst Wilflex adhesive crystals if there's a solid colour backing up everything.


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