# Cheap Sublimation Ink Nano Digital Gercutter Dinsink



## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

OK I'm CHEAP
I read an article in STITCHES magazine and it told me I was missing the boat if I didn’t do Sublimation.
So I started out reading, reading and reading. I finally chose a Epson WF-7510 because it is a WF-7010 with a 11 X 17 scanner. I purchased a empty CISS system from E-Bay, some paper and mugs from Coastal and some “Nano Digital” “Gercutter” “ Dinsink” all the same ink different names, suspect it is MFR Name, Product Name and Reseller Name Ink from Amazon. Threw it all together and it worked! I use the standard Epson print driver and the colors are passable most of the time, However the BLACK comes out great on fabric, but BROWN on ceramic. I hate when I have a sometimes problem, because it never seems to be a problem until I’m depending on it to be right. Anybody have any Ideas?


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

you need to have a correct ICC profile for your ink/printer


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Try decreasing the time or temperature -- one or the other at a time. Ceramics hold heat more that fabrics. Too much/long heat is one of the things that can cause the "carmelized" blacks.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

Hi Charles,
One of the down side to buying cheap ink is the lack of support. I was going to buy the Epson WF7010 because it was supported by Sawgrass. I picked the WF-7510 at the last minute because it was the same printer with a scanner for 20 bucks more. After I got it I realized the Sawgrass profile software did not support the 7510. So if I can’t get a profile for the printer I have I might as well use the cheaper ink. I read that I can print a color pallet on a cup then pick colors off the cup that match the desired colors. That will work for vectors but I’ll have to learn more about ICC profiles for raster images. Im pretty sure I can use custom profiles inside Corel Draw.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks Gordon,
I set my Idle temp at 280F My press temp at 365F and my dwell time at 60 sec
The thing is, when I put a cold cup in the press the idle temp falls fast to about 210 then starts climbing.
It seems to take a long time to reach 365 and trip the timer.
Is that normal?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

One thing I don't do is mention where you get the ink. 

The powers that be are watching and go after companies selling cheap ink. Unless of course it's an authorized seller, just selling it at a low cost.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

So....How do I modify my post or is the dammage done?


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

It's done. We just have to be careful. 

It's not this site, but you know who!


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

NPelican said:


> I set my Idle temp at 280F My press temp at 365F and my dwell time at 60 sec


These settings already seem on the low end, but temperature gauges in these things are seldom accurate, so I'd just do a series of test strips until you get one you like. You can use the same cup. The strip can be a black area, or better, a graded tone from white to solid black.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

Gordon,
Excelent idea with the gradient 
I have a cup with a broken handle, I'll give it a try tonight.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

HeadhunterX, you sent me a private message, but I can't answer because you have private messages turned off.


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## coastalbusiness (May 9, 2006)

You may also want to keep in mind that different mug presses require different times and temperatures, which vary greatly. Which mug press are you using?


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

No Name From China
My target customers are companies that give the cups away as promo / advertising and want them for 5 0r 6 bucks ea so I have to save whereever I can.


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## coastalbusiness (May 9, 2006)

I've seen similar presses with directions of the idle temp at 230F, the pressing temp at 330F and a pressing time of 60 seconds. I agree with Gordon that the brown is probably happening due to over-heating the mugs - blacks usually turn brown when it's over-pressed and turns green when it's under-pressed. The lower temps in the directions above may help the press not "bake" the mugs so harshly. Good luck!


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks Coastal
I'm willing to bet that is it.
I use printer paper to shield the press from leaking gasses and the paper is scorching.
I read this morning that if paper scorches the temp is too high. Hope to send ya another order soon. I have the local American Legion meeting tonight to decide on mugs. Lets keep our fingers crossed.


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## SublimatorToo (Jan 15, 2009)

NPelican said:


> No Name From China
> My target customers are companies that give the cups away as promo / advertising and want them for 5 0r 6 bucks ea so I have to save whereever I can.


Save a buck wherever you can?

That's the wrong approach, my friend. Cut corners and produce junk.

Have been doing this dye sub stuff for at least 10 years. IMO, mugs are a total waste of time and money on your part.

They cost a pile to do compared to what you can pick up a screen printed mug for, with no time or effort on your part. There is no problem with inconsistency from finished mug to finished mug. They last longer than the dye sub mugs, especially when they are stuck into a dishwasher, no matter what brand of dye sub mug you use. You have more styles, shapes and subtle variations available to you in virtually any combination of colors you can imagine, decorated for less than you can buy sublimation blank, bland mugs.

Don't forget your time. Is it worth it to fart around for about 4+ minutes pressing per mug when with the others all you do is order and take your cut? How many dye sub mugs can you produce at one per 4 minutes press time? What about printing your transfers, all the associated supplies waste with that and fiddling around? What about the time to prep the mugs? It all adds up. If you use an oven and a wrap, you need to let it cool between runs or buy more wraps at about 30 bucks a pop. Figure out how much a wrap costs and add that to your production cost per mug. 

What about how long the equipment lasts? In my experience, every Chinese press, no matter what the cost or brand, as well as the George Knight was crap. None of them could press two acceptable mugs in a row. At the supplier's shop one day, we took three brand new Chinese presses as well as the GK off the shelf and tested them. They all failed by the second mug and produced increasingly poorer results the more we pressed on. Stopped after about 4 mugs each.

And no matter what any of them claimed, none of them could do a bleed top to bottom.

With your single shot press, even if it could produce acceptable mugs continuously, you'd be lucky to do 10 per hour. That's less than 100 per day. Work a whole solid day, without a break, as fast as you can for only 100 low priced low profit pieces of output? It's your choice.

Do something else with your sublimation stuff which has a higher selling price and greater profit margin and most importantly works out - like the Vapor shirts. I prefer to do 10 shirts per hour with a selling price of some $40-$50 a pop. It takes no longer to do a massive sized transfer than a small one and it generates more profit.

The guys who give the mugs away will not look very good to the guys that they are trying to impress when the blasted things lose the image after a couple of washes. Recipients are likely to think that they are cheap bums for giving out junk and that will in turn come back to haunt you as you admittedly try to cheap out to squeeze profits where they don't exist. You certainly won't build your brand or increase your sales that way. 

Good luck.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I don't want to discourage the guy. 

Some people do very well selling mugs. We don't buy the cheapest brand mugs either. We buy the next step up from Conde. They do better in the wash. You can always buy American made mugs. They seem to do better too. 

We also use wraps, not presses. I've done hundreds with great success. We bleed top and bottom on many sets. 

I do agree though, if you can make more money with t-shirts, I'd go that route. Especially if you can make Cut & Sew. 

Socks are big too.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

Well so far I have been giving the short story. We both have 40 hour a week jobs and 13 rental properties to take care of. We want to build a home base business for retirement, so we only need to pay for the equipment right now. Showing a loss at the end of the year is not a bad thing as long as we are heading in the right direction. We started with embroidery and didn’t find a profit there. We added screen printing and found not only could we make good money with it but the added benefit of embroidery began to work off each other. We bought out a sign company that was moving to Texas for the screen printing stuff they had and now we cut vinyl and make signs, but that’s not really our cup of tea. We kept getting small orders, request for photo real and 1 off employee names on shirts, so I found a lightly used DTG machine. 
So when I read an article in stitches magazine on sublimation I was not impressed until a running club wanted to place a large order for 100% poly performance shirts. The mugs, puzzles Christmas ornaments etc that I bought was mostly to learn on. I do not intend to make a living with coffee mugs, because I know I can’t compete with the dollar store, however when a local insurance agent orders a gross of white tees, I have no problem burning him 2 0r 3 dozen mugs. I also screen print Koozys 6 at a time and do well on them, the mugs supplement those customers too, Like the local American Legion. 
With all that said I still look for the least expensive way to do things. If my cheap $140 press last me a year or two I’ll get a new one. Technology changes and the Chinese knock offs seem to pick up all the bells and whistles fast. My whole sublimation setup including 12 X 18 printer ciss system cleaning carts quart of ink paper mugs puzzles tiles Christmas junk phone covers press wraps and too much to list didn’t cost more than $500. I can Wright that off as education if I can’t make a penny off it. 
So don’t worry about me getting discouraged caus I’m having fun!
I love learning new things and not affraid to fail, because at least I tried. Ive seen too many people sit on there butts and do nothing then, complain about where they are in life.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

NPelican said:


> OK I'm CHEAP
> I read an article in STITCHES magazine and it told me I was missing the boat if I didn’t do Sublimation.
> So I started out reading, reading and reading. I finally chose a Epson WF-7510 because it is a WF-7010 with a 11 X 17 scanner. I purchased a empty CISS system from E-Bay, some paper and mugs from Coastal and some “Nano Digital” “Gercutter” “ Dinsink” all the same ink different names, suspect it is MFR Name, Product Name and Reseller Name Ink from Amazon. Threw it all together and it worked! I use the standard Epson print driver and the colors are passable most of the time, However the BLACK comes out great on fabric, but BROWN on ceramic. I hate when I have a sometimes problem, because it never seems to be a problem until I’m depending on it to be right. Anybody have any Ideas?


You need to be using all the same brand/line inks and a matching ICC profile.


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## NPelican (Aug 25, 2010)

Well I reduced the time a little per GordenM’s and Coastal Buisness recommendations and it looks a lot better. Thanks Guys
WHAT YA THINK


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Did I read this thread right someone was making and selling Vapor shirts for $50? 

Pictures please - would love to see what a $50 Vapor shirt looks like.

Radishes


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

SublimatorToo said:


> Save a buck wherever you can?
> 
> That's the wrong approach, my friend. Cut corners and produce junk.
> 
> ...


I marked up in your comments above.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

NPelican said:


> Well I reduced the time a little per GordenM’s and Coastal Buisness recommendations and it looks a lot better. Thanks Guys
> WHAT YA THINK


I know you were going for a better black but actually in that design I like the sepia look.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

NPelican said:


> Well I reduced the time a little per GordenM’s and Coastal Buisness recommendations and it looks a lot better. Thanks Guys


The big mug in the picture still looks brownish. Is that intentional? Like Mike sez, it looks better that way, though. If black it wouldn't look as good. The other mug to the right looks like it has a decent black in it.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Rider, It's not the $50 shirt, it's the guy or girl buying the shirt. For some reason they see a value in that shirt. I don't know if anyone really spends that or not.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

selanac said:


> Rider, It's not the $50 shirt, it's the guy or girl buying the shirt. For some reason they see a value in that shirt. I don't know if anyone really spends that or not.


What I was meaning to say is the odds of anyone starting a dye sub business and selling Vapor brand shirts for $50 is next to zero. Thus concluding that one should not waste their time on mugs because they can make 10 Vapor t-shirts per hour and sell them for $40-50 each is in my opinion - radishes.

Many new people including myself when I first joined actually put stock in the post here in this forum. Just do not want folks to think it is realistic to start selling t-shirts for that money.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Back to mugs.
I bought 100 mug wraps today and we will be using these from now on. Very easy and cheap. Awesome end result 20 min in oven @ 400 F. Now we will be doing 30 at a time. no more mug heaters to burn out. yes.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

I just have to reply to SublimatorToo. My Geo Knight mug press has gone thru over 2200 mugs and I've had to replace the green pad once and that's it. Once you've had experience, it's no problem to have consistent results. If one turns out a little different, it's your fault. You probably didn't get the pressure adjusted the same. The pressure does need to be readjusted often. I sent out 200 a few weeks ago and you'd be hard pressed to find any inconsistency in any of these. My customer was very happy. I can average about 14 mugs per hour. If I average just $2.50 profit per mug, that's still close to $35 per hour. I don't consider that bad for a little sideline in my basement.

Also, I have mugs I printed 3 years ago and they've gone thru the dishwasher hundreds of times with no ill effects. Correct, no full bleed but I've never had a customer request it. The majority of my business has gotten to be company logos and they certainly aren't interested in full bleed mugs. Learn the mug side of the business, have some fun and make a little money.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I get it Mike and Dave. You can bring extra Money in with mugs. We need to have the capability to do both. 

Dave, we use mug wraps too. Not 100, but we do have about 4. I put four at one time at 15 minutes. They come out really nice. 

Some customers have complained about the brownish color. I do believe the mugs are a slightly off white. So if customers aren't use to using mugs, then they might assume it's not clean. however, that's how I get the mugs brand new. 

I tried using them to run ads on them. That was a pain in the neck. I'll like that to Mike. It's not for me. 

Guess I'll stick to giving them away with my ads. Maybe put a Plumbers Ad too. Something like, See the Content of your Pipes. Then have a nice picture of the contents, while they're enjoying their meal. LOL.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

selanac said:


> I get it Mike and Dave. You can bring extra Money in with mugs. *We need to have the capability to do both. *
> 
> Dave, we use mug wraps too. Not 100, but we do have about 4. I put four at one time at 15 minutes. They come out really nice.
> 
> ...


Yes, understand I am not against screen printing at all, for mugs or whatever, my point was that sublimation can fit a niche that screen printing won't cover, that's all. 

I'm home based so screen printing isn't really a good fit for me. 

In many cases I don't see much overlap in the 2 technologies, best to use the right tool for the right job. Of course having a bigger tool box is the ideal, I just don't have the sq ft.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

I spoke with Royal Paper today. He was telling me that they mostly print on Mugs, tiles, trophy's, etc. Mainly hard surfaces. 

Told him that I used his paper to print on about 200 mugs and they worked really well. Also did some contracting work, were I printed sub transfers and sent to people to press themselves. 

He was trying to get me to contact doctors offices etc. Maybe print on Mouse Pads etc. I never had luck with that. Too hard to get in touch with the Reps. 

Any how, I believe mugs have a good market especially for a few at a time. Now I just have to figure out how to get customers.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

selanac said:


> Now I just have to figure out how to get customers.


That's always the challenge.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Guess a little challenge. I just don't have time at night to go to Small business networking meetings.


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