# I Bought A Copam from US Cutter - Time to compare UScutter - Graphtec CE5000-60 - Roland GX 24



## JoshEllsworth

So I bought this Copam 2500 cutter. No really...I did - the picture is attached to prove it. It cost $650 plus shipping. I am in the process of creating a head to head comparison between the Copam and the Roland GX-24 (with video), since this is a question that is asked and debated a lot.

Right now I am having installation issues with the driver for the Copam. I have been trying to install and establish communication for about a day and a half now, but no luck. I've taken the steps by posting on the US Cutter support site and calling them and leaving messages. I'll update once I have some action.

Yesterday, a tech from US Cutter sent me a driver, which didn't seem to work. So far, I'm not a big fan of the Serial to USB converter that the Copam requires. I can't hook up through the Parallel port since I don't have one on my laptop. We'll see how this progresses. The unit did arrive in a reasonable time frame. I have some other initial insight, but will be holding it all off for a complete report.

Stay tuned...

If anyone has experienced this problem and can help me set it up - feel free to respond. I have Windows XP, The Copam 2500, The included Sign Blazer Software, & a serial to USB cord that was included.


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## cybe

Some motherboards' chipsets have risers for additional USB ports (for example, on the front of the machine.)

Try connecting the converter to a different section of ports. 

We use these usb/serial adaptors for Teller Cash Drawers at Chase, and they're a major PITA.

In Device Manager, select the radio-button for View Devices by Connection. Expand the USB section, and see if the adapter is connected to a USB2.0 port stemming directly from the bridge on the mobo. >: )


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## go10go4

Josh,

Does the Copam have true optical registration, like the Roland?


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## JoshEllsworth

go10go4 said:


> Josh,
> 
> Does the Copam have true optical registration, like the Roland?


No it does not.


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## hiGH

i had no problems setting my copam up.


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## plan b

Ok Josh here is the answer,, can the usb connector that came with machine,, go to best buy (great return policy) buy a new usb adapter w/ driver and install that,, end of problem!!

R.


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## JoshEllsworth

hiGH said:


> i had no problems setting my copam up.


Thats great, but I'm having problems here. Can you offer any insight? Do you have the driver referenced in my original post that you can email me?

What operating system do you have? Did you use the Serial/USB Converter or the Parallel connnection?


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## JoshEllsworth

plan b said:


> Ok Josh here is the answer,, can the usb connector that came with machine,, go to best buy (great return policy) buy a new usb adapter w/ driver and install that,, end of problem!!
> 
> R.


Thank you - will try that. Closest Best Buy is an hour away, but I'm hoping Staples or Radio Shack will do the trick.


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## plan b

Ok Josh,, dont worry about anything just do what I told you and all will work out just fine,,, I have a dell laptop w/ xp system using signcut but it really doesn"t matter,, just go get the new adapter and driver they come in a bundled package,,, trust meeeee..

R.


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## plan b

Either one will do the trick,, I just use best buy because its close to me


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## L00T

Interesting thread, comparing cutters...
Sorry I can't help you out Josh, never used a Copam myself. But I wonder when you get it to work.
Too pitty Imprintables only sells Roland cutters. It would be interesting to see all the major brands compared here.


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## Chani

Yes! I'd LOVE to see the Roland GX-24 pit against the Graphtec CE5000-60 and other major brand cutters.


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## JoshEllsworth

Chani said:


> Yes! I'd LOVE to see the Roland GX-24 pit against the Graphtec CE5000-60 and other major brand cutters.


Just go to a trade show and you will see the similar priced Graphtec and Roland head to head to compare.

I chose the lower priced Copam to compare primarily because it will show folks what they get for the money Allowing people to see the differences for the different price points and then make their investment accordingly.


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## mystysue

Great idea Josh.. .... I know I have both a old graptec and one of the new rolands........ so my comparisons there dont work just becuse the graphtec is like 10+ years old.. lol...


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## plan b

This should be interesting an unbias comparision of a cutter nearly half the price of the Roland done by a Roland distributor,, hmmm,, sounds a little like death of a salesman to me.. Rule number one of equipment sales,, never , never, never, bash or compare your piece of equipment to another brand,, never mention the competions brand name,, and never produce a video of head to head competetion with another brand,, all pieces of equipment no matter what it is has its weak points and strengths,, so to point these out would be fruitless,, thats why there are so many brands out in the market place,, Its interesting to note that when the Roland cutter came out the price tag was inflated and now the price has dropped considerably,, hmm, on the other hand US Cutters started off with a low price point and then put the Copam 2500 in the hands of one of the administrators of the highly reckonized sign forum that runs a large sign company with multible cutters from different brands for a review,,, yee gads the marketing impact was potentially huge,, now this was a loner machine the reviewer did not have to buy the machine nor was it given to him after the review,,just to keep it fair. I have to take my hat off to US Cutter for this one this was a piece of brilliant marketing stratagy,, this could have gone sour from the start and fell flat on their face,, but it didn't and the rest is history,, , The resulting factor is that US Cutters came out with a product at a low entry price and as the demand grew so did the price for that product but not to a point of breaking ones pocketbook..

Thats what I call building a brand,,,, I love it when a little guy comes out and dukes it out with a big corporation,, it tells me that there is still room for us little guys in this great Nation .. So this Buds for you Mr. Copam2500 US Cutter Man!!

R.


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## JoshEllsworth

C'mon Roger. Never compare your product to a competitors? I can't see that being a rule of any sort. The goal of this exercise is to educate the consumer on the pros and cons of each piece of equipment. A video will illustrate the different points and help people to make more educated buying decisions for their business. 

Obviously the lower priced cutter will accomodate the needs of some and the higher priced cutter will be a better fit for others. 

Its not fair to suggest that a comparison can't or shouldn't be made.

And, obviously folks will need to sort through the point of view of the author as is with anything in life.

So here's to a more educated customer that creates a more successful business by investing in the cutter that fits their needs!


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## plan b

Josh,,,,, all due respect to you and your company ,, but ,, a distributor does not put out the funds to by a competitors machine just for educational purposes, although you can label it anyway you want to. I know as ,I am a retired National and International sales director of a very large equipment company,, we tried things that could be considered the same as what you are doing and it came back to bite us in the a*#* and I hope this does not happen to you as you are a well respected member here on the forum and in the industry.. I hope you do well !!! Sometimes the old birds like me can be taught new tricks but not very often as the old saying goes " you live and learn", so I wish you all the best !!!

R.


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## plan b

Oh and by the way did you get the cutter working?


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## MYDAMIT

JoshEllsworth said:


> Thats great, but I'm having problems here. Can you offer any insight? Do you have the driver referenced in my original post that you can email me?
> 
> What operating system do you have? Did you use the Serial/USB Converter or the Parallel connnection?


Hi Josh,
I have copcam 2500 and i used the Serial/USB converter with no problem installing it to my windows xp. Only thing i do is i manually setup my driver, going to DEVICE manager and you can see some icon that is USB(in yellow color) then just update the driver by using your driver cd include in the cutter. Gdluck


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## hiGH

JoshEllsworth said:


> Thats great, but I'm having problems here. Can you offer any insight? Do you have the driver referenced in my original post that you can email me?
> 
> What operating system do you have? Did you use the Serial/USB Converter or the Parallel connnection?


I run windows XP. sorry i cant provide any additional help.. i'm such a newbie


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## theflowerboxx

I can't wait to see the comparison  Why don't you do a comparison on SCII and Thermoflex plus and Multicut too.  Nevermind I already did those comparisions.


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## JoshEllsworth

theflowerboxx said:


> I can't wait to see the comparison  Why don't you do a comparison on SCII and Thermoflex plus and Multicut too.  Nevermind I already did those comparisions.


Thanks David. 

I know you had problems with our Spectracut II and I apologize, but this isn't really about that. We've since then addressed these issues. You can read an update here if you are interested: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t28082.html


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## JoshEllsworth

plan b said:


> Oh and by the way did you get the cutter working?


Not working yet. We've been busy here, so I'm hoping to clear some time to work with it tomorrow or Monday. I plan to pick up the adapter that you recommended over the weekend.


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## tryplecrown

Man, timing is perfect on this. We just started looking in to vinyl cutters and heat presses to add to the mix at our shop, and the cutter is the piece we're still up in the air on. 

I know the Roland will cut tackle twill (just watched Josh's video on twill), but will the copam cut tackle twill??? Can't wait to see the comparisons.


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## Chani

Chances are that almost any cutter will cut twill with the right downforce and blade. It's just a matter of: will it cut twill under warranty?


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## JoshEllsworth

tryplecrown said:


> Man, timing is perfect on this. We just started looking in to vinyl cutters and heat presses to add to the mix at our shop, and the cutter is the piece we're still up in the air on.
> 
> I know the Roland will cut tackle twill (just watched Josh's video on twill), but will the copam cut tackle twill??? Can't wait to see the comparisons.


This will definitely be part of the comparison. I'm interested to find out as well!


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## theflowerboxx

You want an unbiased review? 333Signforums Product review Here is a review from an unbiased reviewer from an unbiased site.


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## Chani

Now this I like to see:



> I would place it in a category above the Roland and Just below the Summa or The Graphtec.


In the summary of the review just posted.


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## Air Art Girl

here is an unbias comparison. Have a Roland CX-300, love it. It's busy in the sign shop so I needed a plotter for ThermoFlex. Bought the cheapie, set it up, ran some cut jobs..........it was a piece of sh#$. Boxed it up, sent it back, was willing to take a hit on the return, bought a GX-24. It's not a CX-300 but it is WAY better then the cheapie.


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## mystysue

Hiya Ellen.. 
Yups.. I think one of the factors that make the differance for some of us.. like you and me..(with busy sign shops) Is the amount of vinyl we actually cut in a day / week .
I usually cut between 300 to 450 feet of vinyl in a week.. and with over 30,000 a month depending on production and my cutters.. I try to always buy the name brands, with proven track records.. .. we have a very old graphtec plotter. (it runs on windows 98 and signlab 5 lol) and my two rolands.. 
I have never used one of the us cutters.. but I know what i have is dependable and will last for years and years.. with very extreme use. My concern with the less expensive plotters is how long they will actually last.. I donno.. Im looking forward to hearing more on the test go

I do think as Josh said.. each machine has its uses and are good for differant people.. 
just know what my concerns are and have to be..


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## theflowerboxx

Air Art Girl said:


> here is an unbias comparison. Have a Roland CX-300, love it. It's busy in the sign shop so I needed a plotter for ThermoFlex. Bought the cheapie, set it up, ran some cut jobs..........it was a piece of sh#$. Boxed it up, sent it back, was willing to take a hit on the return, bought a GX-24. It's not a CX-300 but it is WAY better then the cheapie.


I'm glad you like your rolands. I prefer my $250.00 POS.


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## Air Art Girl

theflowerboxx said:


> I'm glad you like your rolands. I prefer my $250.00 POS.


I have to agree with Sue. If you are using the plotter occasionally maybe an inexpensive one will work for you. We have alot of expensive equipment and shop not only for function but longevity of the equipment and tech support. Owning 2 Roland Plotters and a 56" large format print/cut they have been awesome whenever needed. We have had to use converters for the older 2 Rolands that have parallel cables and it was easy.

Like Sue, I put many yards of material thru my plotter on a daily basis. I'll stay with reliability.

Twill, as far as twill goes, the force needed will dull the blade quick. If it is not a clean cut, you will get frey. I use my laser engraver.

I also trust Josh to give an unbias review.


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## uscutter

Josh, I am really sorry to hear that you have had problems getting this machine connected. I am assuming that you received the black USB->serial convertor. If so, you should use the driver that came on the small mini-disc. I am guessing that you tried installing a Prolific drive which will not work. Once you have installed the driver, you should see it show up in device manager. Open the device and see what serial port it is set to and use that serial port in SignBlazer. I suggest that you get it working with SignBlazer before trying any other software.

If that doesn't work, please call us immediately at 866-789-2919. My tech is there until 4:00PM, so if you can get him before he heads out, he should be able to remotely log in to your computer and get it resolved.





JoshEllsworth said:


> So I bought this Copam 2500 cutter. No really...I did - the picture is attached to prove it. It cost $650 plus shipping. I am in the process of creating a head to head comparison between the Copam and the Roland GX-24 (with video), since this is a question that is asked and debated a lot.
> 
> Right now I am having installation issues with the driver for the Copam. I have been trying to install and establish communication for about a day and a half now, but no luck. I've taken the steps by posting on the US Cutter support site and calling them and leaving messages. I'll update once I have some action.
> 
> Yesterday, a tech from US Cutter sent me a driver, which didn't seem to work. So far, I'm not a big fan of the Serial to USB converter that the Copam requires. I can't hook up through the Parallel port since I don't have one on my laptop. We'll see how this progresses. The unit did arrive in a reasonable time frame. I have some other initial insight, but will be holding it all off for a complete report.
> 
> Stay tuned...
> 
> If anyone has experienced this problem and can help me set it up - feel free to respond. I have Windows XP, The Copam 2500, The included Sign Blazer Software, & a serial to USB cord that was included.


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## tryplecrown

Any new news Josh?


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## JoshEllsworth

tryplecrown said:


> Any new news Josh?


I'm actually at a bit of a delay. I haven't had time yet to devote to the video comparison and am heading to California tomorrow and won't be back until the 19th. I plan to have the report up by the end of the month at the latest so hold tight


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## CuttingEdge

Frankly I'm at a loss as to why Josh was unable to connect his Copam to a laptop via USB within an hour of his first attempt for this *'unbiased'* review. 

I consider myself less than tech savy when it comes to a situtation such as this. Even so, when I received my Copam earlier this year with SignCut, I found the install pretty straight forward to a laptop (Sempron 2600, 1 gig ram, XP OS) via USB. My understanding is SignBlazer is not that different in install. Mine has been running flawlessly ever since. Granted this is a hobby to me and my living does not depend on this machine as it's not cutting 50+ jobs on a daily basis. It does usually cut daily though. If this machine had been the price of a Roland or Graphtec, I would not be writing this post, as the cost of this hobby would be too prohibitive to justify. Is this machine for everybody? Probably not depending on the user's limitations. This is like any other industry in that there are those that believe they can't stay ahead of the competition unless they possess the latest technology and there are those that somehow stay abreast by creative improvisation to maximize their limited resources. 

I have yet to see a post on any forum by someone claiming their Copam would not stand up to rigerous daily use. Just another opinion.


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## JoshEllsworth

CuttingEdge said:


> Frankly I'm at a loss as to why Josh was unable to connect his Copam to a laptop via USB within an hour of his first attempt for this *'unbiased'* review.
> 
> I consider myself less than tech savy when it comes to a situtation such as this. Even so, when I received my Copam earlier this year with SignCut, I found the install pretty straight forward to a laptop (Sempron 2600, 1 gig ram, XP OS) via USB. My understanding is SignBlazer is not that different in install. Mine has been running flawlessly ever since. Granted this is a hobby to me and my living does not depend on this machine as it's not cutting 50+ jobs on a daily basis. It does usually cut daily though. If this machine had been the price of a Roland or Graphtec, I would not be writing this post, as the cost of this hobby would be too prohibitive to justify. Is this machine for everybody? Probably not depending on the user's limitations. This is like any other industry in that there are those that believe they can't stay ahead of the competition unless they possess the latest technology and there are those that somehow stay abreast by creative improvisation to maximize their limited resources.
> 
> I have yet to see a post on any forum by someone claiming their Copam would not stand up to rigerous daily use. Just another opinion.


I honestly haven't been able to give the connection issue a second shot. The driver needed to connect was not included in my shipment so it held me up a bit. I'm sure everything will work out fine when I can give it a chance again. As soon as I return from my trip, I plan to call Ken from US Cutter to get up and running. At that point, I'll be able to do a comparison which will show my views as to which machine is for what type of businesses. 

I certainly know that there is a place for the Copam and it is not my intent to degrade this machine, but rather compare its capabilities with that of the GX-24 so folks can decide which one is right for their businesses needs.

I think some of the negative energy towards this comparison will be alleviated when I have a chance to complete this review


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## maddog9022

JoshEllsworth said:


> I honestly haven't been able to give the connection issue a second shot. The driver needed to connect was not included in my shipment so it held me up a bit. I'm sure everything will work out fine when I can give it a chance again. As soon as I return from my trip, I plan to call Ken from US Cutter to get up and running. At that point, I'll be able to do a comparison which will show my views as to which machine is for what type of businesses.
> 
> I certainly know that there is a place for the Copam and it is not my intent to degrade this machine, but rather compare its capabilities with that of the GX-24 so folks can decide which one is right for their businesses needs.
> 
> I think some of the negative energy towards this comparison will be alleviated when I have a chance to complete this review


 
maybe you already went over this but how are you going to compare them.


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## Rodney

> Frankly I'm at a loss as to why Josh was unable to connect his Copam to a laptop via USB within an hour of his first attempt for this *'unbiased'* review.


Even in the "unbiased" review that theflowerboxx posted, the reviewer posted problems with USB conversions.



Kimon Brown said:


> If USCutters fixes the USB conversion issues and provides a little better documentation they have a sure winner here and would find it rated in the excellent range.


So it's not just limited to Josh's experience.

That's not to knock the copcam at all. Not everyone has a perfect experience the first time with a Roland either. 

My point here is let's at least give Josh a "chance" to finish out his testing and see what he posts before we jump on him and say he's out to bash a competitor's product.

Of course there's some inherent bias involved since Josh sells Roland cutters, but I think since that's a fact that's out in the open, people can decide on their own how much weight they want to give the reviews once they've been posted.

He's not hiding that he's a Roland guy, but at the same time, he's actually trying to do a decent comparison and publish the findings when most people wouldn't have the funds to buy different cutters and compare/contrast them.

Several members here use a Copcam cutter from uscutter.com with no problems at all. I don't think there's a question that it's a solid cutter.

But it would be nice to see a side by side comparison since there are obviously differences. A Roland GX-24 won't be for everyone and a Copcam won't be for everyone. Maybe the final result will help show which is for which.

If the final review and videos seem crazy lopsided in Roland's favor, then we can all jump on Josh and call him names  But for now, let's at least try to have an open mind of the process. Josh has never been one to badmouth any competing product.

What would be neat is if Marcus from uscutter could do a similar side by side review of the GX-24 and his brand cutter.

Might be interesting to compare the two to see what common themes show up.


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## charles95405

How about it Marcus...this is a great idea...a review of the two machines from you and the same from Josh..

Like Rodney says...give 'em a chance. I know both of them in the past has acknowledged the other machine has a place. we..the consumer...just have to decide which is best for us... Not easy


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## rusty

I'm looking forward to Josh's comparison. I think Josh is an honest guy and will be as objective as possible.


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## COEDS

I agree Josh wil be honest with the comparison, but we will all se the videos too. I look forward to this question and I also wonder if the software supplied with the Roland will work with the copam. The Roland software seems very easy to learn compared to other available software. .... J b


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## gothicaleigh

I would be interested in a test on how well the Copam tracks. This weekend we cut a 23"x150" car graphic (which doesn't allow for much misalignment or poor runout on a small cutter) with our Roland GX-24 and because of all the Copam talk around here, I wondered if the same would be possible with the fleabay cutter. Assuming good alignment by the user, what distance will the Copam runout to before the roll falls off?


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## MotoskinGraphix

I am interested in the plotter when Josh is done with the comparison. Hope there is a contest or a discounted unit for sale.


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## CuttingEdge

gothicaleigh said:


> I would be interested in a test on how well the Copam tracks. This weekend we cut a 23"x150" car graphic (which doesn't allow for much misalignment or poor runout on a small cutter) with our Roland GX-24 and because of all the Copam talk around here, I wondered if the same would be possible with the fleabay cutter. Assuming good alignment by the user, what distance will the Copam runout to before the roll falls off?


If you'll come over and help me respool a ten yard roll, we can make a video demonstrating the true trac of my Copam. Hey I've seen Rolands at internet auction, does that make them fleabay cutters too?


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## tryplecrown

Just wanted to bump this thread and see if there was any new news no the comparison?


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## COEDS

I'm still waiting too. I plan to buy a new cutter before the end of the year amd was waiting on the comparison to help with my decision. I'm leaning toward the roland, but i've heard so many great things about the copam that the choice is really a tuff one. ........JB


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## ryan6916

I just bought a Graphtec CE5000-60 so I won't be buying another cutter to soon. But I also can't wait to see the review.


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## garyb

JB, maybe you should wait until the new software comes out for the new us cutter, laser eye cutter. If it works the way they expect one should be able to contour cut like the roland at 1/4 the price of the gx 24.USCutter LaserPoint 24 - Cutting Plotter Without Stand


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## cmyk

my copam cp 2500 has arrived today.
almost 1440 USD...

they have a direct usb port now


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## MYDAMIT

cmyk said:


> my copam cp 2500 has arrived today.
> almost 1440 USD...
> 
> they have a direct usb port now


Wow, almost 1440USD so expensive, i think when i bought my copcam 2500 in ebay is only 600USD including shipping. 6months now stinn no problem with it. Gdluck with your new cutter


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## cmyk

cmyk said:


> my copam cp 2500 has arrived today.
> almost 1440 USD...
> 
> they have a direct usb port now


thanks, MYDAMIT!
almost 1440 USD because that's the price in eastern europe.
i've seen the e-bay offer, with the shipping and all the taxes i would have spared about 340 USD compared with the price i got here, but had virtualy no technical suport. 
(and this is very important , you see, as my vendor forgot to include the user's manual in the package. so, i already need technical support ).


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## cmyk

i can't get the damn thing running. 
drivers - ok, conections - ok.
i hit "cut", and nothing happens.
techical support is c**p.


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## plan b

Cmyk,, I have a copam,, if you give me a little more info,,,, Maybe I can help,,, running on vista? mac? sending vector to your cut software, have the correct port setting in your cut program,, running usb,, things like that

R


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## cmyk

plan b said:


> Cmyk,, I have a copam,, if you give me a little more info,,,, Maybe I can help,,, running on vista? mac? sending vector to your cut software, have the correct port setting in your cut program,, running usb,, things like that
> 
> R


 
but i have a copam too! 
a working copam, i mean!  
the secret was an one hour conversation with the technical stuff and a paralel conection, instead of usb or serial one.

anyways,thank you very much, plan b!!


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## Chani

Yikes! I don't even _have_ a parallel port on my PC!  

If you need to use a parallel port for the Copam, I'd say that's a strike against them right there...

We share our Graphtec CE5000-60 between our two computers. Front panel USB ports. It would be a major pain to share our plotter even if I DID have a parallel port!


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## plan b

Glad you got it working,, if they would address that problem it would be no worries for US cutters and the end user also..

R.


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## plan b

Chani,,, If I needed contour cut with my cutter I can tell you I would buy a Graphtec,,, I really like the new CR ce5000-40 sweet machine,, takes 19" material and will cut almost 15" this machine is smoking....

R.


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## Chani

I want to get one "just because"! 

Actually, cutting transfer papers dulls blades faster, so I'd like to get a CR Pro just for transfers and also to take on the road if we ever do any shows.

There are only two things I don't like about the CR Pro (CE5000-40). First, there's no stand available for it as far as I've seen. Second, some apparel vinyls are 20" wide...JUST too big for this machine. Of course, Mark rarely cuts directly from the roll (he slices off a piece of vinyl when he's cutting and uses the "Sheet" setting), so all you would need to do is orientate the sheet so that it would fit. 

But otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.


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## cmyk

Chani said:


> Yikes! I don't even _have_ a parallel port on my PC!
> 
> If you need to use a parallel port for the Copam, I'd say that's a strike against them right there...
> 
> We share our Graphtec CE5000-60 between our two computers. Front panel USB ports. It would be a major pain to share our plotter even if I DID have a parallel port!


i really don't know if the parallel port is the only solution.
i think it isn't.
it just worked for me, and i was to anxious to try anything else, as i have two new customers waiting for me to get the cutter running.

the vendor told me this may be because i had to many printers and scanners attached to my pc, and this may result in some errors or conflicts with the ports (this is what i understood, because i'm no computer genius).
i allready had a scanner, an inkjet and a laser printer, plus a large copier coneccted to my pc.
plus other wires and cables for the photo camera and the recorder.
and now, the cutter machine
i'm waiting for a new pc to arrive on monday to make it easier on this old one.


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## MYDAMIT

hi,
i also have so many equiptment hook up to my pc but my copcam is working fine, i think if you used the usb port you need to find the exact port where you connect your cutter. Me in my signcut software it's detecting in com 6. try to figure out if what port( try com4,com 5 or com6).


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## cmyk

since i got the machine running, i won't try changing anything for the moment, because i don't want to risk to go wrong and go throu all that againg...
but thanks for the advice


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## tryplecrown

Any new news on the comparison or did things kind of fizzle for the holidays?


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## charles95405

I think it is safe to say nothing will come until after the holidays...and probably not until after the ISS show in Long Beach. I think Josh is usually there


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## ffokazak

Hey Susan, 

OUt of curiosity, what do you guys do with the waste that is created in signmaking?

Is it recycled?

The paper on the back of the vinyl, the masking tape, and the waste vinyl must add up when you cut as much as you do. 

I have always wondered what happens to the garbage, 

I have a mighty {for my shop} ball of the wastee vinyl I cut {Barely any} that I cannot come to throw out. 

Could you recycle it? Where would you send it?

Thanks!


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## mystysue

HI Andrew.. 
well.. the waste vinyl just goes into the trash dumpster.. we have a big one that gets dumped every week..

Some weeks the lid wont even close by the time its trash day.. and I really get tired of dumping trash on busy days.. Sign making has alot of waste involved.

The backing paper.. I do try to use some of that.. I use it quict often for like dividers betweens alum signs when a client buys alot of them.. for coverings on the table if im painting.. ..
lol.. weve used them for place mats under our lunches at time too..

Iv3e alos used it for a blow out sheet in the heat press when im pressing metal.


I dont know of anywhere to recycle the cut vinyl.. now scraps that are not peeled.. i donate some to them to local schools for thier crafts..


----------



## bogie

Guys, even if there are a few problems hooking up a machine, think of how things were for us back in the early 1980s... I remember hand-building serial and parallel cables, because different computer and printer manufacturers had different ideas about how things should be wired. Odds are this is just a windoze driver problem, and will be fixed after Josh gets an e-mail from the nice US Cutter folks...

Bogie
Graphtec CE5000-120 Cutter
Refine "Fleabay" Cutter


----------



## CuttingEdge

I'm only adding this comment because someone new to cutters may get the impression from lack of recent contrary input in this thread that this plotter is a son of a gun to connect and get running. I was also new to cutter/plotters back in the spring and went with a Copam due to the $avings over anything else I compared it to. I decided to run the set-up from an off brand Anthelon powered laptop which had only USB ports available. It took me more time to assemble the stand and physically set-up the plotter than the USB connection required to get up and running. I have been cutting from Corel X3 thru SignCut ever since. My understanding is there are plug-ins available that would enable me to cut directly from Corel. I may someday go that route, however I've had a casual interest in computers ever since the advent of the JK flip flop and firmly believe if it ain't broke it don't need changed.


----------



## cmyk

well, the machine works flawlessly once we got over that instalation isuue.
my fiancee is the one responsable with the graphic design and she uses Corel Draw 12, without any other intermediar programs.
the cutter plotter come with a free Art Cut program, and it also works fine, but a can't say more, as i don't have any expertise in this field.


----------



## Chani

I suppose I should explain my earlier statement about if you had to use a parallel port then that's a strike against the Copam. I still believe that, but the installation issues should be taken with a grain of salt. ANY cutter can be difficult to set up if you've never done it before. We had troubles at first with our Graphtec CE5000-60 when we first bought it. But it's been an AWESOME machine ever since we got it running.

I'm sure the Copam is a great machine, too, for the money (and maybe even more).

Just make sure you buy the right machine for the right job. If you only want to cut vinyl, then go for a the Copam. If you want to contour cut transfers, you will want to look at a different machine.

Just keep in mind that if you've never needed to set up a plotter before (even if you've run them), there can be issues with any of them.

Also, I see it as a big advantage to be able to cut directly from Illustrator or CorelDRAW, and if USCutters has or is coming out with a plugin for those two programs, I think it will give them a MAJOR advantage over the higher-priced machines.

I'm still not completely convinced of their durability, but at those prices, you can buy a new Graphtec or Roland once your business takes off. We originally thought about buying a cheap ebay machine when we first started, but we ended up deciding to buy a machine that we KNEW would last. We're VERY happy with our purchase, but it might not be for everyone. 

To that end, if we could, we'd buy a Roland to compare our CE5000-60 to the GX-24. Who knows...maybe it would surprise us.


----------



## theflowerboxx

You can cut directly from Corel Draw (not sure about Illy) with US Cutter's machines using Sign Cut's plugin and I'm "almost" certain with Sign Blazer that is now shipping with US Cutter's machines.


----------



## campbellkr

Any news? --- "*I Bought A Copam from US Cutter - Time to compare*"


----------



## rtucker

I bought that model too. I have a Dell laptop with Window Xp. It's an older laptop and has the serial port on the back. It was the quickest most successful way to get up and running. Painless. Sorry I can't help more. sometimes technology is not my friend...this forum on the other hand is the BOMB! I love this place....


----------



## campbellkr

When will the review be posted????


----------



## oldkush

campbellkr said:


> When will the review be posted????




Perhaps the reason there has not been a review posted is because the Copam cutter is holding it's own against the Roland ...... wouldn't look good for a Roland dealer to have to admit that the Copam is a good cutter [especially considering the price difference].  

Hopefully we will see a review soon.

Bob


----------



## hammered

Josh stated that he would be back after the 19th to finish the setup and start the review. Remember people, hes not doing a standard comparison to see which plotter is the best, he comparing the features to see where in the scheme of things the Copam places.


----------



## oldkush

hammered said:


> Josh stated that he would be back after the 19th to finish the setup and start the review. Remember people, hes not doing a standard comparison to see which plotter is the best, he comparing the features to see where in the scheme of things the Copam places.




According to his posts, I believe the 19th that Josh was referring to is .... November 19th.

Would be interesting to know what he thinks of the Copam so far, even if he hasn't finished the comparison completely.

Bob


----------



## theflowerboxx

If anyone wants a true honest review on this machine go here and read it 333Signforums Product review Kimon is one of the most trusted people I know of in the sign business, his reviews are always truthful.


----------



## Chani

Do you have a link to his other reviews? I can't seem to find them on the site.

Thanks!


----------



## kenimes

Here is a review that Kimon from SignForums did on the Coam series. He liked it so much, he bought one himself.


333Signforums Product review

Oops, flower is too quick.

lol


----------



## campbellkr

I was hoping to see the review by Josh. 

Josh do you have a completion date?

Thanks


----------



## maddog9022

probably not going to happen. this thread is almost 6 month old. 

maybe that should tell you something


----------



## FMVinyl

Yea I think we are are going with the copam for sure. Great price and i like the reviews its getting..


----------



## theflowerboxx

campbellkr said:


> I was hoping to see the review by Josh.
> 
> Josh do you have a completion date?
> 
> Thanks


If you really are willing to wait that long for a review then you have alot more patience then I will ever have. As said below your post, that should tell you something that he hasn't posted a review. 

Also for the life of me I cannot understand how people would think that a person who sells one machine could give an unbiased review of their direct competition.

How many times you go to a Chevrolet dealership and asking a salesman if he likes a Ford?


----------



## JoshEllsworth

campbellkr said:


> I was hoping to see the review by Josh.
> 
> Josh do you have a completion date?
> 
> Thanks


Unfortunately I don't have a completion date. As posted earlier, I ran into problems get the machine to work. US Cutter offered support, but I haven't taken them up on the offer - so its is solely on me.

From face value I would say that there are a few major differences. 

Price: The Copam is less expensive MSRP and comes with a stand.

Motor: Mainly the Copam utilizes a stepper motor whereas the GX-24 uses a servo motor. Here is a link to a page that explains the differences: DC Servo vs Stepper motors 

Optic Eye: The GX-24 has an optic eye sensor for trimming around preprinted images whereas the Copam does not.


There are many other items that I would like to test: 
Cutting Twill
Feeding and Cutting Thinner Heat Transfer Vinyl
Software comparison
etc. etc.


What I would like to do is send someone who is looking for a cutter both units, a Roland GX-24 and my Copam, and have them do this comparison for me and everyone else that has been following this thread.

I think it would offer a unique, unbiased perspective from a start-ups point of view. 

Would you be up for handling this task? I don't mean to put you on the spot, so if you don't have the time for this just let us know and we might find someone else interested...

I think whoever does it should not own or have owned either unit - as familiarity could skew the results.


----------



## Chani

I'd love to give an unbiased view on both of these cutters, but I already own a Graphtec.


----------



## charles95405

For what it is worth....I have been around for awhile and know that Chani has given some really good advice...

I think he would be a good choice test...because:
He has a different cutter BUT he understands the software issues and would not be a total novice and based upon his work in the past I think this would be a great idea...

A total novice could get confused more easily...I know when I was first in this biz, I could hardly spell 'T' shirt..

anybody else agree with me???


----------



## COEDS

I'm sure as josh stated he wants a unbiased opinion. I think picking someone who owns a third type of cutter would be a good review. I think it would be great to have each ,achine cut the eaxct same design and material. This would alow all to see. We already know the roland and copam dont have all the same capabilities, so just compare on the cutting alone. This will allow us all a answer. I would like to think josh and Chani for offering a solution to this question...... Thanks guys..... JB


----------



## Chani

Thank you both for your votes of confidence. 

As a bonus, my Fiance, Mark, runs Gerber plotters at his F-T job at a sign shop and he used to own a Mutoh with his best friend (who now has that plotter down in Alabama).

While we do love our Graphtec, I have absolutely nothing against Roland or Copam, and nothing to gain or lose if we were to conduct this test (except maybe be blown away with one or the other of these plotters and want to buy one!  ). 

But it's completely up to Josh who he wants to run these tests.


----------



## kenimes

Here is a Roland in action using a Servo motor: YouTube - Heat Press Transfer Vinyl Tutorial

Here is a Copam in action using a Stepper motor: Sign Plotter

Stepper motors are notoriously louder, but with the money you save, it is easily acceptable and hardly noticable. As for precision? Cut a file on the Roland, and cut the same file on the Copam......put them next to each other, and you cannot tell them apart. If there is a slight difference, it is hardly noticable to the human eye.

The Copam does not have contour cutting abilities. You really don't need this feature unless you pre-print to transfers or vinyl and need to cut around the pre-printed design or logo. It cuts heat press transfer vinyl, as well as several other materials up to 1mm in thickness, including twill.



The review by Kimon of SignForums.com was an unbiased review, and here is a list of what he runs: 
Group: Co-Founder/It Support
Posts: 11263
Joined: 24-May 02
From: In The Bayou Baby
Member No.: 3
Sign Software/Equipment: Roland Camm-1, Graphtec CE, Roland Versacam, Techno CNC Router, 3 Paschee Airbrushes, Some One Shot, Signcutx3, Signwizard, Signgo, Casmate 6.52, Omega 1.43, Flexi 7.6, Signlab 5, Graphixcalc, Vectric V-Carve Wizard, Corel X3, Adobe CS2

He also bought a Copam.

Rolands are great machines. Copams are great machines. How much do you have to invest?


----------



## plan b

Got to tell you this is not apples to apples comparison, 2 different cutters, I own a Copam and its not loud at all,, it will cut every bit as well as the Roland but however I do alot of sand blast mask for heavy sand blasting you know the rubbery stuff, twill is a piece of cake compared to this stuff and if you really want to put the Roland to the test try cutting the mask,, it requires at least 400 down pressure to cut it, I have nothing against the Roland, they make very good equipment, but I think for value and compared equipment apples to apples would be the Roland against the Graphtec that would be head to head.


----------



## kenimes

Good point.

What is the thickness of the sandblast mask you are cutting with the Copam? Do you have the downforce maxed out at 500g? 60 degree blade I assume?


----------



## plan b

I don't know the thickness of the mask its a lot thicker than sign vinyl, I am set at 400 down pressure and 30 offset I am using a cleancut blade 45 Zuccu, I have tried my 60 blade with the same results as the zuccu, the blade is a special blade and I don't have to change blades no matter what I cut.

R.


----------



## TSW2005

Josh,
Give us a call. I would love to do the comparison. We own a gx24 as you know and are currently looking for another machine to so specifics like twill.

I would video some side by side comparisons, and write up a unbiased opinion at the end.

Joe
Thunder Sportswear


----------



## paulo

LOL I guess the best would be me. I don't own a cutter at all, and don't even know how to use one.

If thats unbiased. I don't know what else is.


----------



## JoshEllsworth

Chani said:


> Thank you both for your votes of confidence.
> 
> As a bonus, my Fiance, Mark, runs Gerber plotters at his F-T job at a sign shop and he used to own a Mutoh with his best friend (who now has that plotter down in Alabama).
> 
> While we do love our Graphtec, I have absolutely nothing against Roland or Copam, and nothing to gain or lose if we were to conduct this test (except maybe be blown away with one or the other of these plotters and want to buy one!  ).
> 
> But it's completely up to Josh who he wants to run these tests.


OK you're on  I looked through a lot of your past posts and you seem to have a really good grasp on the capabilities of your Graphtec, and I think that will really help the comparison.

PM me your contact info, with address, phone etc. and I will call you to arrange the shipment and discuss some comparison points. I'll also make sure that you have the necessary cadcut, twill and paper to test it.

It is really awesome that you would volunteer to do this! (and bail me out)

So Chani is the tester.


----------



## charles95405

Good for Josh...good for Chani...this should be fun! Glad I got to second Chani's volunteering..


----------



## paulo

Darn!  I was hoping my nievity would get it. I look forward to the review because I would really want to get one.


----------



## hiGH

let the battle begin! congrats chani


----------



## plan b

You Go Girl!!!!!!


----------



## ino

Thats the spirit Mr. Josh, you sure put your money where your mouth is. 

As for you Ms Chani, may the wisdom of King Solomon be with you.

BTW has the challenger accepted to enter the contest?


----------



## mrdavid

Hi Chani glad to see you get this you have been doing lot of testing of all kinds hope this works out for you just remember no matter what you find they will be mad take me with my test some of the forum members dont like me any more LOL


----------



## campbellkr

Chani will you be able to video some of your work and post it on YouTube?

Thanks for your efforts. This will provide needed information for those new to vinyl cutting.


----------



## Chani

Oh, wow! 

Thanks Josh and everyone! 

I'll PM our details right away.

Videos are a good idea. I'll try to borrow my mom's video camera (which used to be mine  ).

I promise to be as open-minded as possible for this test.


----------



## kenimes

Congrats Chani. Let me know if you need assistance configuring the Copam with your computer.


----------



## Chani

I'll definitely ask for other Copam users' help if I need it!  We'll see if we can get it set up ourselves, tho.

Thanks!


----------



## Chani

Hi All.

I got word that these two cutters will be here on Monday or Tuesday. Finding a place to set them up will be a chore, but this will definitely be worth the effort! 

I'll get to testing these ASAP once we have them.

If we do actually need help setting either of these up I'll certainly call on other members to assist us. 

Josh has a series of tests he'd like us to run with both of these plotters, and we'll do those as well as some of our own.


----------



## cmyk

i'll be glad to help, but my verry limited PC&stuff skills might be a problem..: 

anyway, i'm looking forward for the test.
i hope you will make some video clips


----------



## gmille39

go10go4 said:


> Josh,
> 
> Does the Copam have true optical registration, like the Roland?


No, that's why it's $650, compared to $1700.


----------



## ino

Hi Chani,
Are they sending you two factory sealed boxes as normal customers would get? or would the plotters be already set up.


----------



## BelVon

I used to work in a sign shop and they have a durable Graptech 30" vinyl cutter. Compared to the cheaper cutter, Copam has no optical registration, cannot measure actual cutting area (you have to guess or rely on your software to know the actual size of the design), you cannot load 50 yards roll vinyl, because the feeder is too weak to pull the load.

I'd say if you can afford it, buy a cutter that's already proven to do the work.


----------



## Chani

Hi Ino,

No, I'm assuming that the two plotters that I'll be receiving will be pre-opened. Actually, I know the Copam is, because Josh told me it is. I can only assume the same with the GX-24.

They didn't come yesterday, but they should be here today.

Hey, Josh, would you mind shooting me a tracking number to be sure?

Thanks!


----------



## Chani

Actually, I believe the Copam does have a media registration sensor for telling the size of the media you load in it. Or so I've been told in the past.

That would be off-putting if I need to measure every piece of vinyl I put into it!


----------



## cronosSTYLE

very interesting thread. I glad you do this comparation test. This will help many people to make their choice..(like me) 
Hennessy.


----------



## kenimes

Chani said:


> Actually, I believe the Copam does have a media registration sensor for telling the size of the media you load in it. Or so I've been told in the past.
> 
> That would be off-putting if I need to measure every piece of vinyl I put into it!


 
Yes, the Copam has an optical eye to read the material size, so it knows it can only cut up to the size of material that is loaded.

The Copam can be loaded with a large roll of material, but it is a good idea to loosen enough materiall off of the roll for the particular job you are cutting.


----------



## BelVon

When I was using Graphtech and FlexiSign, there is an option that you can select to measure and show you the actual vinyl that will be consumed. It will tell you if the width or length is not enough, and it will show you how much more extra there is, so there's no miscalculating that I normally experience with Copam. That feature is very convenient and actually saves me a bunch with mistakes.

And also when working with say 10 ft vinyl for banners, it's dangerous to loosen the roll ahead. It rolls back up quickly, and you have to watch it closely.

There are a lot of good features that the Copam is missing, but for starters, it's really good and practical. If you're a little ahead, go with something more.


----------



## theflowerboxx

BelVon said:


> When I was using Graphtech and FlexiSign, there is an option that you can select to measure and show you the actual vinyl that will be consumed. It will tell you if the width or length is not enough, and it will show you how much more extra there is, so there's no miscalculating that I normally experience with Copam. That feature is very convenient and actually saves me a bunch with mistakes.


What does a graphtec have to do with that feature in FLEXI? My refine does the exact same thing as your graphtec does when you use that button in flexi.


----------



## BelVon

theflowerboxx said:


> What does a graphtec have to do with that feature in FLEXI? My refine does the exact same thing as your graphtec does when you use that button in flexi.


Really??? I have tried using that feature, but the plotter (Copam) never responded. I also contacted US Cutter and they said they do not have that feature on that plotter... Well if it's possible I hope I can get that to work on mine.

I use Graphtech when I was still working in the sign shop, that's how I get comparison with my Copam.


----------



## theflowerboxx

BelVon said:


> Really??? I have tried using that feature, but the plotter (Copam) never responded. I also contacted US Cutter and they said they do not have that feature on that plotter... Well if it's possible I hope I can get that to work on mine.
> 
> I use Graphtech when I was still working in the sign shop, that's how I get comparison with my Copam.


AFAIK, that feature would work with any cutter, since it is a flexi feature not a cutter feature. I use that feature everytime I cut something.


----------



## BelVon

theflowerboxx said:


> AFAIK, that feature would work with any cutter, since it is a flexi feature not a cutter feature. I use that feature everytime I cut something.


I believe it is also a cutter feature. Copam comes with a cutting software which is SignCut, which also has that "Show me" feature or "Test feed", but it doesn't work on mine. Does anybody use Testfeed on their Copam and had success?


----------



## Chani

We now have three plotters in our tiny apartment.  Our Graphtec and Josh's GX-24 and Copam. 

Josh is coming up with a list of tests that he'd like us to complete with these plotters, plus we'll come up with a list of our own.

Hopefully we'll have some results soon!


----------



## kenimes

Can't wait!


----------



## plan b

Nice!!!!!!!!! we can also see a test Graphtec vs. Roland ?????


----------



## Chani

Oh...that's on the table!


----------



## mrdavid

ok chani I cant wait love to see the out come of this


----------



## Chani

I've been told to ask if I'm having issues. Here's one...the driver disk for the Serial to USB adaptor is BLANK! 

So what drivers do I need, or would someone be willing to send me the files on their installation disk?

No issues installing SignBlazer Elements.


----------



## plan b

Chani,,, I had the same problem,, I ditched the included usb cord and driver,, I went to Best Buy and bought a new one installed it and end of problem,, I went to best Buy because of their return policy,, open use it take it back no questions asked,, you might want to pm marcus or ken and see if they can send you a file.


----------



## mrdavid

Chani Marcus was the one that here is way to get help
(Toll-free: 888-640-0720
Local: 425-481-3555

Ext. 3 for technical support.

Hours are M-F 9:00AM - 3:00PM Pacific time. We are here later, but tend to reserve the last hour for catching up with voicemail.

We also offer weekend support through our helpdesk site at:
USCutter - Powered By Kayako SupportSuite)


----------



## Chani

Thanks!

Actually, I found the driver here: YongXin-Digital-USB2.0 TO RS232 Driver

It's the WY-388 driver.

And...

Just cut my first design. I started with the Circle of Stars with our Graphtec, so I started with that file with the Copam! 

I haven't weeded it yet, tho, so we'll see how well it did.

Very first impressions...it seems to be a VERY sturdily-built machine. The pinch rollers are a little difficult to move, but no big deal. The control panel is very basic, but I guess if that's all it takes, then it's fine. 

The only real issue I have right now is that there are no alignment grooves or lines to make sure you line your media up straight. That might be an issue later on if using sheets instead of rolls. Even rolls can be a little skewed, tho, especially since the media rolls are so far down on the stand. I'd prefer if the media rolls were just in the back of the machine like it shows in the manual (and like our Graphtec).

I REALLY like the price point and the fact that it comes with a stand!

So...so far it's a basic machine, and SignBlazer seems a little "cheap", but for what you pay...I'm impressed.


----------



## Chani

Is there a way of having the machine show the media size in inches? Right now it's set to MM. Somehow I doubt it.

Also, in SignBlazer, is there any way of reading the media size from the plotter itself instead of manually entering it?

Thanks!


----------



## Chani

First issue with the plotter itself...My offset is .25mm, which is what the blades said to use, and it's how the machine was set up initially.

On the Circle of Stars, on the main inner star, some of the corners are true corners, and some of them are rounded.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Chani

And I was berated for giving my first impressions of SignBlazer Elements on the USCutter forums. An opinion which Mark also shares.


----------



## plan b

Are you talking about origin setting,, I don't have signblazer so cant help you there,, remember it has a optical eye to read material size


----------



## plan b

It sounds more like software issue


----------



## Chani

No, I mean the media size within SignBlazer Elements.

It's reading the media size on the machine itself, but I was wondering if it's possible to hit a button on SBE to automatically enter the media size, instead of having to convert from mm to inches, and manually enter the media size info.

The origin point I got.


----------



## Chani

plan b said:


> It sounds more like software issue


Well, there are drivers to run this plotter from CorelDRAW, so I'll install those and see what I can come up with. 

But since this machine comes with SBE, I want to run it through the ringers, too. 

One SBE issue I had was that the inner curves between the outer-most stars imported at straight lines in SBE from an AI file. So it cut them as little line segments.

I'll see how it does with the Corel drivers.


----------



## plan b

Got me ,,,don't have signblazer, you can in sign cut


----------



## plan b

I launch from corel, may make a difference


----------



## Chani

Yeah, I'll give that a try tomorrow.


----------



## Chani

Okay, my mistake...the "curves" that ended up as line segments were in the original design itself. I forgot that I didn't make those parts curved, but instead they were the arms of the individual stars around the edge.

I've set the blade a little farther into its holder and will be adjusting my downforce tomorrow (I cut WAY too far into the backer), so I'll give this design another try in the morning (whenever that is). Hopefully my corner issues will be resolved. 

And I'll also try loading in those CorelDRAW drivers.


----------



## Chani

Okay, since I could NOT sleep last night (  ), I decided to try out those drivers for the Copam for CorelDRAW. Pretty light...once I finally figured out how to install them, (I think). Basically, it gives you NO options on how you want to cut. No weed lines, no orientation, no mirroring. Nothing.

Now, I haven't actually tried to cut anything with that driver yet, so I don't know if any options will come up.

So once the other people in my building have woken up I'll try a little more cutting with SignBlazer Elements and the Copam.

In the meantime, I got everything set up with the Roland, and did my first cut. Same design.

I haven't inspected it yet, so I don't know if I had all my settings right, but we'll see.

The Roland seems a tiny bit quieter than our Graphtec.

I think it may have a little more accelleration, too, because that seemed to cut a little faster than our Graphtec at the same cutting speed. I'll need to re-cut on our machine to make sure.

Cut Studio also seems a tiny bit basic, but it's still definitely better than Graphtec's ROBO Master Pro! I need to play with it more to really form an opinion (as with SignBlazer Elements).

I'll do a lot of testing with those two programs for their respective machines, but I'm also going to download the trial version of SignCut X2 (an option with the Copam in place of SignBlazer) to see how I like that. It will run all three of these plotters, and also has an option for a plugin for CorelDRAW and Illustrator (AND Inkscape!!!).

I know there's a plugin for the Roland (and Graphtec) from their respective manufacturers for Corel and Illy, and I'll play with those a little, too, just to be fair.  Personally, I PREFER to cut directly from my design program.


----------



## Chani

Just to let y'all know, I'll be posting a LOT in this thread. I'll post any new developments or any relevant thoughts about these machines and their prospective software packages.

At the end of my testing, I'll create a new thread with all of the important details of these tests, and I'll post a link to that thread here.

I HOPE to have many pictures and some video. I need to pick up my parents' video camera. I'll try to do that tonite.

To continue: I've just gone through the entire help file for Cut Studio. As I said, pretty basic, but better than ROBO Master Pro. Then again, in reading the Cut Studio help file, I decided to compare and contrast. It turns out that ROBO Master Pro is capable of more than I thought, namely creating contour outlines of bitmaps. ROBO Master Pro CAN do that, tho I haven't tested it yet in either Cut Studio or ROBO Master Pro.

I'm just working with vinyl to begin with, and I'll get to inkjet tranfers later on.

Just from the help file, tho, it does appear that Automatic Registration Mark Sensing is a little more "automatic" on the Roland than the Graphtec. On the Graphtec, once you send your information to your plotter you need to align your plotters blade to the first reg mark. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you just load in your media and hit "cut" and it does the rest on the Roland. Is this true? I guess I'll find out eventually. 

Where ROBO Master Pro really seems to fail (again, I havent worked much with it) is actual designing. It appears to be an "import data only" program. When I tried to create a design in it before, I couldn't even close a curve. 

Off to do another test cut using my Circle of Stars on the Copam. Hopefully this one will turn out a little better than the last.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani said:


> So once the other people in my building have woken up I'll try a little more cutting with SignBlazer Elements and the Copam.


 
Are you saying this machine is loud enough to be an alarm clock in someone else's apartment? Holy moly, would you say working in a 12x14 room would be too much noise to share with this. Sometimes larger areas are better with noisy machines. From the above, I would be afraid of sitting next to this one.


----------



## mystysue

Chani said:


> Just from the help file, tho, it does appear that Automatic Registration Mark Sensing is a little more "automatic" on the Roland than the Graphtec. On the Graphtec, once you send your information to your plotter you need to align your plotters blade to the first reg mark. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you just load in your media and hit "cut" and it does the rest on the Roland. Is this true? I guess I'll find out eventually.
> .


Ok Im not really sure what your asking.. but when i put the vinyl in my roland, and line it up it asks me if its a roll or a sheet or what ever.. after i press roll.. it sends the head to measure it.. once its in the home position (the far left) I then push origin to tell it where to start....

The one time i forgot to push origin it screwed up lol..

My Graphec it a old machine.. so i cant really compair it to my roland.. plus i work with sign works on my graphtec and work with illy/ cut studio on my roland..


----------



## mystysue

Girlzndollz said:


> Are you saying this machine is loud enough to be an alarm clock in someone else's apartment? Holy moly, would you say working in a 12x14 room would be too much noise to share with this. Sometimes larger areas are better with noisy machines. From the above, I would be afraid of sitting next to this one.


lol. I know my roland is alot quieter than my old graphtec.. but Im sure thats just an age thing and the new graphtecs are quieter for sure..
I know with my roland i can sit next to it and still talk on the phone.. 
I cant be within several feet of my old graphtec and talk on the phone comfortably.. 
Again my graphtec is over 10 years old.

I do think with comparing the roland to the us cutter the differance in it being a stepper motor to a servo motor is going to make a differance in how loud it is..


----------



## Chani

It's not actually THAT loud, but it's a whole heck of a lot louder than either the Graphtec or Roland.

Mark was being over-cautious on this one, but I could hear it outside when I was on my balcony and the machine is about six feet away from our door. The door was cracked just a little, but I could hear it plain as day (I couldn't hear the Roland at all under the same circumstances.

Not having the greatest of luck with my Circle of Stars with this Copam. The Roland handled it just fine. Here's the design I'm cutting:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t25004.html

And here are the files if anyone with a Copam is interested in this one:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t39632.html

The smallest stars are getting mangled.


----------



## Chani

mystysue said:


> Ok Im not really sure what your asking.. but when i put the vinyl in my roland, and line it up it asks me if its a roll or a sheet or what ever.. after i press roll.. it sends the head to measure it.. once its in the home position (the far left) I then push origin to tell it where to start....
> 
> The one time i forgot to push origin it screwed up lol..
> 
> My Graphec it a old machine.. so i cant really compair it to my roland.. plus i work with sign works on my graphtec and work with illy/ cut studio on my roland..


I'm asking about registration mark sensing when contour cutting inkjet transfers.  That's where the Graphtec and Roland seem to be very different.


----------



## Chani

mystysue said:


> lol. I know my roland is alot quieter than my old graphtec.. but Im sure thats just an age thing and the new graphtecs are quieter for sure..
> I know with my roland i can sit next to it and still talk on the phone..
> I cant be within several feet of my old graphtec and talk on the phone comfortably..
> Again my graphtec is over 10 years old.
> 
> I do think with comparing the roland to the us cutter the differance in it being a stepper motor to a servo motor is going to make a differance in how loud it is..


Yes, The Copam is louder because of its stepper motors, while the Graphtec and Roland machines have servo motors.

Our "modern" Graphtec is nice and quiet. 

You can still hold a normal conversation, even standing right next to the Copam, but it's VERY noticeably louder than the other two machines.


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## mystysue

aww otay.. yes ive not done that as I use either dye sub or cut vinyl ..


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## Chani

Just let me be clear for those that are saying that it's not fair to compare the Copam to the other two machines...in a way, you're right, and I don't expect the Copam to be able to do EVERYTHING that the other two can do. I just want to see what it WILL do, and judge its VALUE on that. I know it's a $650 machine up against a $1400 and a $1600 machine.  But just the fact that it's worthy of comparrison should say something about it.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani said:


> It's not actually THAT loud, Mark was being over-cautious, I could hear it outside when I was on my balcony and the machine is about six feet away from our door. The door was cracked.


Okay, well this sounds much better. My desk is only 6 feet long, so that's not much distance. 

I do know and expect some noise with the stepper motor, and have seen these in action on youtube, and yes, there is noise. Like you said, I suppose that is part of the price break. Each person can decide what is the priority. Thank you for this further post b/c I feel alot better now.

Thank you, Mystysue, too, it makes alot of sense that also older machines could be noisy due to age, I know me own bones are!

If one can afford the roland, I bet it's great to have such a quiet companion. But I wouldn't be able to dish out the dough for that.

I am mostly interested in the cutting capabilities of this copam machine. 

Thank you, Chani for running these tests. Please remember, I do not have a big budget, so bells and whistles aren't what I am looking for. For me personally, I am wondering if the copam can cut capably at $650. 

Glitter vinyl is where its at for me!! And I loved Doug's example of the sueded vinyl. Looks nice. I could do lots with that.

Yes, it is great to think it can even run with the big dogs.


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## mrdavid

I have new Pcut and its not sound loud I set it up were if it was load my wife wold kill me LOL yes it dois make nouse but I can stand right where it is and talk on phone with no problem


----------



## prometheus

Girlzndollz said:


> For me personally, I am wondering if the copam can cut capably at $650.


I don't think there are any issues with it cutting. It seems like for basic vinyl cutting, from what I have read here, it does the job. It is more about the extras. It is interesting to see how the software stacks up though.


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## Girlzndollz

prometheus said:


> I don't think there are any issues with it cutting. It seems like for basic vinyl cutting, from what I have read here, it does the job. It is more about the extras. It is interesting to see how the software stacks up though.


 
Thanks, Robert. I guess I'll wait on that as well.


----------



## COEDS

I really think Chani is doing a great job in comparing all the cutters. I really think she is trying to be unbiased and fair to all manufactures. ......JB


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## kenimes

Yes, Chani is a doing a great job at comparing the 3 machines in an unbiased setting. Much appreciated.

For those of you who have not seen the original unbiased review of the Copam, here it is, done by Kimon of SignForums:333Signforums Product review

Here is one in action: Sign Plotter


----------



## Chani

I'm trying. 

JB, here's the EPS of my Circle of Stars.

I think I posted above that the Copam had a few issues with it and mangled some of the smaller stars.

I was hoping that it would do a little better with that, but I'm not surprised. The plotters at Mark's work won't cut half of the things that we cut on our Graphtec, and those plotters are an older Graphtec and a Gerber. They just can't handle really small cuts.

But again (I think), the Roland did great with this design.

I'm totally open to any tests that anyone can suggest to compare the capabilities of these machines. I started with the most difficult test that I think a plotter could possibly go through, but I'll work my way back to simpler designs.

I cut another design yesterday, but I can't really post it here because of the self-promotion rules, so I'll come up with other designs to cut. 

I borrowed my parents' video camera, too, so I'll be taking some video as well as photos. I just need to buy some MiniDV tapes for the video camera.


----------



## Chani

Thanks, Ken!

Ken, like I said, I'm having issues cutting VERY small designs on the Copam. Do you know the approximate limits of this machine so I'm not treating it unfairly?


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## Girlzndollz

kenimes said:


> For those of you who have not seen the original unbiased review of the Copam, here it is, done by Kimon of SignForums:333Signforums Product review


Thanks for this link again, I did read it, but what I thank you even more for is this:





> Here is one in action: Sign Plotter


I am able to hear how loud the machine is. Now, after hearing it, it is quieter than I thought, but "waking neighbors" is louder than I assumed. The only way I can clarifiy is to ask for more information, or watch a video like this. Thank you for the link, and I thank Chani for clarifing the comment. Without the clarification, I may have assumed it to be Chani's opinion that this copam is possibly too loud for working at home in apartment buildings, or very close quarters like my own home office. 

So thanks to both. I appreciate the information, and am now not worried about this noise level.

Mrdavid, just wondering, is your cutter from the same mfg? If it is, is it the lower model down? If so, will you watch the link from Ken and please let me know how mucher louder if any your own cutter is? I appreciate it very much. I can stand more noise than this cutter makes, so if I can buy an even more affordable model, there is room in my noise tolerance to save me the extra money.


----------



## plan b

Im not suprised either,, the circle of stars is pretty radical,, however I just wonder if the reason why isn't the step motors as the servos have a much mor fluid movement and probably react faster to the information sent to them,,, just a thought.....


----------



## Chani

Yes, I'm thinking that it's an issue with the steppers not having as much resolution as the servos, as well as not reacting as quickly.

Kelly, I wouldn't worry about the noise level. I'll post a video once I get some tape for this camera under the same conditions so you can get an accurate comparrison on noise levels. As I said, I think Mark was just being over-cautious. It's noisier than the other two machines, but not unacceptably so.

That said, Mark has no problem running our Graphtec in the middle of the night when people are asleep, so there defiitely IS a difference.


----------



## kenimes

Chani said:


> Thanks, Ken!
> 
> Ken, like I said, I'm having issues cutting VERY small designs on the Copam. Do you know the approximate limits of this machine so I'm not treating it unfairly?


 
Not sure...flowerboxx cut the design well on his Refine series using steppers, which is the lower end unit we offer, so I assumed the Copam would not have any issues. The Refine series cut looks like it came out better than the name brand units in his post. Were you using a 45degree or 60degree blade? Might take a 60 to cut very intricate.

You are welcome GirlznDollz, glad to assist.


----------



## Chani

Perhaps.

Yeah, I was surpsied that the Refine-cut design looked really nice, while the Copam-cut design didn't do so well.

I'm using an offset of .25mm, as it says on the blade package. Also, I'm cutting at 20cm/sec on all of these plotters with this design. I could try slowing that down a little on the Copam and see if that might help.

Also, on the Roland and Copam, I'm using 80g downforce with brand-new blades. I haven't recut with our Graphtec yet.


----------



## kenimes

Chani said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> Yeah, I was surpsied that the Refine-cut design looked really nice, while the Copam-cut design didn't do so well.
> 
> I'm using an offset of .25mm, as it says on the blade package. Also, I'm cutting at 20cm/sec on all of these plotters with this design. I could try slowing that down a little on the Copam and see if that might help.
> 
> Also, on the Roland and Copam, I'm using 80g downforce with brand-new blades. I haven't recut with our Graphtec yet.


 
I would try lowering the cut speed, and the blade that is included with the Copam is a 45degree, so I could ship you some 60degree blades to test as well.


----------



## Chani

If you're willing to do that, I will test it with a 60 degree blade, too. 

You can contact me at [email protected]

Thanks!


----------



## kenimes

Chani said:


> If you're willing to do that, I will test it with a 60 degree blade, too.
> 
> You can contact me at [email protected]
> 
> Thanks!


 
Ok, email sent.


----------



## Chani

Okay, first photos of the Circle of Stars test between the Roland and Copam...

I slowed the cuting speed on the Copam to 10cm/s, and it improved it slightly, but if Ken is willing to send me a 60 degree blade for this machine I'll try with that, too.

First, the Roland.

Everything cut smoothly, and it looks great. When weeding, I lost the tiniest stars, but all of the other ones fared well.

*80g downforce and 20cm/s with a 45 degree blade on Spectra Eco-Film*

After Cutting:









After weeding a portion of the design:









Everything is crisp and clean.

Now for the Copam,

Not so well. As you can see, the blade lifted quite a few of the corners up, and I completely lost several of the stars, even the medium-sized ones.

*70g downforce at 10cm/s with a 45 degree blade on Spectra Eco-Film.*

After Cutting:









After weeding the largest star in the middle:









As you can see on the right inner corners on the star, the corners are slightly rounded. I was a little disappointed in this, because the other corners seem to be very crisp and sharp, which leads me to believe that the settings I'm using for Offset are correct.

Also, so many of the stars were lifted off of the backer, it's almost unweedable. I'll try pressing everything down again, but I'm not sure how well it will come out.

This may be an unfair test. As I said, some plotters are capable of cutting VERY detailed objects while some are not, but since this was the very first design I cut on our Graphtec, I wanted to try it on these two plotters, too.


----------



## Chani

kenimes said:


> Ok, email sent.


Thanks!


----------



## theflowerboxx

lol, I would "almost" guarantee the copam could cut that circle of stars logo. If my refine cut it that good then I am pretty confident the copam would cut as good. BTW, I gripped and ripped most of mine and as you can see almost every star stayed on there  .

Maybe the refine should be reviewed against those "so-called" brand name machines. For $250.00 I think I am very happy with mine.


----------



## Chani

Also, Ken, if you have any other suggestions, especially for the rounded corners, I'll try it out again.


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## Chani

theflowerboxx said:


> lol, I would "almost" guarantee the copam could cut that circle of stars logo. If my refine cut it that good then I am pretty confident the copam would cut as good. BTW, I gripped and ripped most of mine and as you can see almost every star stayed on there  .
> 
> Maybe the refine should be reviewed against those "so-called" brand name machines. For $250.00 I think I am very happy with mine.


I'd be happy to send any file that I use for these tests and the conditions that I cut under for you to do comparrison tests with your plotter, too. 

I'm reviewing these plotters as fairly as I can, but I need to be honest, I'd LIKE to see the Copam do well. That would give so many people another low-cost option for apparel vinyl.


----------



## theflowerboxx

Sorry Chani, I re-read my post and it did sound like I was being an a$$, I never intended it that way. I know you are being as fair as you can be. 

I just know that my cutter cut the circle of stars excellent and "assumed" (yeah I know what assuming does ) the Copam would cut as good as mine. Please by all means post any file you test and all others here can try you files out on their own machines. Also be sure and let everyone know what type and brand vinyl you're using. I use multicut heat applied from Transfer Papers and Sublimation Inks at Joto that also may make a difference.


----------



## Chani

It may make a difference what vinyl you're using, yes.

At the moment I'm using the media that Josh sent me, but I may try this with ThermoFlex Plus, too. It has totally different properties from Spectra Eco-Film.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were being anything other than try to help.


----------



## CuttingEdge

What are the overall dimensions of the Circle of Stars EPS file you are cutting for this comparision? Perhaps a photo including a rule scale would put things into better perspective. Thanks


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani said:


> Yes, I'm thinking that it's an issue with the steppers not having as much resolution as the servos, as well as not reacting as quickly.


Is that maybe another thing to contribute to the lower price? I expect there will be a few things like this when all is said and done that'll be given up, but at least because of the tests, we'll get a good look at the limitations and "what you get for the money." It'll be so nice to have a great review like this. Almost like a consumer reports on plotters, with the options and attributes, and the little checkmark if it has it or doesn't.




> Kelly, I wouldn't worry about the noise level. I'll post a video once I get some tape for this camera under the same conditions so you can get an accurate comparrison on noise levels. As I said, I think Mark was just being over-cautious. It's noisier than the other two machines, but not unacceptably so.
> 
> That said, Mark has no problem running our Graphtec in the middle of the night when people are asleep, so there defiitely IS a difference.


 
Thank you for this Chani, I really appreciate it. (I got the sense later on that maybe one of the comments about biased or unbaised may have come on the heels of my asking about the noise level.)

I really hope not - I really hope its okay for us to ask about particular things as the tests roll along. 

I think many of us are looking for different things out of this test, and how could it really be a benefit if we can't inquire about what interests us most if someone might take it as anything other than a question.

PS: When I saw a plotter on youtube, it wasn't the copam 2500. The copam is quieter than the one I watched. The one I watched was annoyingly loud, and sounded more like typewriter, constantly clicking and jumping, so I already have learned alot more about the copam.

Thanks so much, I think we all know how much you put into your testing, and I'm thanking you again, I hope I can ask questions in the future when something catches my interest or raises a flag that I need more info on. Thanks, Kelly


----------



## theflowerboxx

It's 8"x8" with the smallest star being .022x.023 inches, yeah that's pretty small.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani said:


> I'm totally open to any tests that anyone can suggest to compare the capabilities of these machines. I started with the most difficult test that I think a plotter could possibly go through, but I'll work my way back to simpler designs.


Hi Chani,

How about start simplier, and work you way up, and see where the machines drop off and can't keep up with the next?

I'd like to see what the copam can do, and where its usefulness ends, then how much further each of the other machines can go against each other.

What do you think?


----------



## Chani

Girlzndollz said:


> Thank you for this Chani, I really appreciate it. (I got the sense later on that maybe one of the comments about biased or unbaised may have come on the heels of my asking about the noise level.)
> 
> I really hope not - I really hope its okay for us to ask about particular things as the tests roll along.
> 
> I think many of us are looking for different things out of this test, and how could it really be a benefit if we can't inquire about what interests us most if someone might take it as anything other than a question.
> 
> PS: When I saw a plotter on youtube, it wasn't the copam 2500. The copam is quieter than the one I watched. The one I watched was annoyingly loud, and sounded more like typewriter, constantly clicking and jumping, so I already have learned alot more about the copam.
> 
> Thanks so much, I think we all know how much you put into your testing, and I'm thanking you again, I hope I can ask questions in the future when something catches my interest or raises a flag that I need more info on. Thanks, Kelly


No, my comment wasn't because of that.  I just wnat to make sure that I AM being fair, and if someone catches me doing something that might not be, I'd like to know. 

Also, everyone, feel free to ask any questions! Either about what I've done, or any new tests that you'd like to see me do.

I'm entering this totally open-minded.


----------



## Girlzndollz

theflowerboxx said:


> Please by all means post any file you test and all others here can try you files out on their own machines.


Sorry, plotter newbie (why I am watching the thread)

What does this mean? Other folks can do the same tests and post their own results? Would that make sense? Oh like to test different vinyls in the same plotters? That might be good to see the different vinyl/plotters with the same design.

Plus can see which vinyl would work best in the copam.

Does this also mean folks with other cutters not these three already being tested can try the design and post their results as well? I would love to see the results from another plotter as well. Great idea.

And Chani, peace, you are okay w/me. You weren't the only who said the unbiased comment, but maybe it wasn't meant for me anyway, I just don't want to feel bad for asking a Q, and am glad I can in the right spirit. Its all good, and I hope you aren't awake all weekend testing. Sleep is goooooood.


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## mrdavid

I will cut and see what it while look like


----------



## Chani

Girlzndollz said:


> Sorry, plotter newbie (why I am watching the thread)
> 
> Does this mean folks with the own rolands/graphtecs/copams can do the same tests and post their own results here as well??
> 
> Does this also mean folks with cutters besides the above three can also try the design on their's and post their results here as well?
> 
> I would love to see the results from another plotter that a mad scientist I know has.


I don't see why not! 

I'm sure Josh will say something if he doesn't want others getting into this, but I don't see why it would be a problem.

With me testing these three plotters I can make sure I'm using the same media and conditions so it's completely fair, but I'd like to see what other plotters are capable of, too.

And yes, my next tests will be of simpler designs, and I'll work my way up to more complex designs. Sorry, I said it wrong before.


----------



## Chani

mrdavid said:


> I will cut and see what it while look like


If you can get it to cut properly, would you mind telling me what you did?

Thanks!


----------



## mystysue

I think this is a great comparison.. and yes differant people are looking for differant things in a plotter. and for some cost is more of an issue.. where with others.. It may be differant things that rank up higher in importance than the cost (within reason). One of the things that i like about both my roland and graphtec is that unless im doing something really hard to cut (refective sign vinyl for instance) I dont have to change settings or blades or anything.. i just put in and go.. My main concern with any piece of machinery is that I dont have the time to fiddle with them.. My shop is very much production orienteded (sp) where I have to cut a whole lot of vinyl in a day.. and then mabe switch to t-shirt vinyl. I dont have time to take out blade holders switch blades, and worry if its cutting right.. 
Donno if my ramblings made sence.. (or Not) I think each plotter has its place.. and I dont think the copam is a bad piece of machinery or we would hear about it. But the having to change blades to cut sumthing that the other plotters cut without changing blades would be one thing that would bug me..


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## theflowerboxx

I'm with you, Sue. I would hate to have to change blades and/or holders too. I've never changed a blade to cut different materials. Last yr. I did a racecar for someone and did it all in chrome, they came in while I was doing it and wanted some shirts made, I went straight from cutting the chrome vinyl to cutting t-shirt vinyl without doing anything except changing the pressure.


----------



## cmyk

as i reported, i did the test and got same results as chani did.
copam cp 2500, oracal sign vinyl, 90 gr, speed at 10, 45 blade.
the last or the last two rows were almost impossible to weed and i lost my patience.
i really don't think copam is a loud machine.
for now, we have it in our appartment and sometimes we work in the middle of the night with absolutelly no complaints.
before reading the forum, i never thought about the loudness issue, simply because i didn't saw it as an issue at all.
those small stars are at the copam's limits, as you can read in the technical data sheet.
the big difference is the motors - servo, like roland and graphtec, and stepper, like copam.
it is that simple: different technologies, like diesel and gas engines, for example.
but, again: i do etched glass and i need pretty small details, and the copam serves me well.


----------



## BRC

Chani

I have cut letters as small as 1/8" on mine as well as extremely small graphics . One thing to remember is that the Roland cuts at 20 IPS and the Copam cuts at 40IPS you may find that on some small designs you may need to slow it down a bit. Also make sure the blade is sharp. The blade from the Roland will fit it.

Edit:
Ok after reading farther I might add that you may want to try increasing the speed as well. I almost never slow mine down but I see you already did. You may need to add to the pressure too. On mine I run as high as 120 grams on Thermoflex, but mine is subject to extreme temperature variations so when it's 30 degrees it is one thing and when it's 90 it's another. I will try the stars tomorrow if I get a chance but I hope to be too busy (probably not but I can always hope)


----------



## plan b

Chani,, send me the file I will give it a shot on my copam,, you know where,, could be a number of things


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## plan b

Oh and you keep going you are doing great


----------



## Chani

Neither of these machines have ever been run before, and they both have brand-new blades. 

I slowed the Copam down to 10cm/s, while the Roland handled it well at 20cm/s. Both with the same vinyl from the same roll. I'm not giving any conclusions yet. I still have quite a few more tests to run, plus any that Josh or any of you come up with.


----------



## Chani

Hi Roger,

I posted the file on the last page. If you need something other than an EPS I'll send it to you.


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## Girlzndollz

What a great thread, everyone here is so awesome. I'll get you water and snacks, I wish I could contribute more.


----------



## plan b

Kelly Beer!!!!!!!!!!!!! and snacks


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## plan b

Ok,,, I did a fast cut and weed,, I could have got them all but Im lazy and my eyes don't focus that small..... I used a clean cut blade zecu 45 degree I might add that blade is a year old,,, 10 speed, 70 down pressure,,30 offset, hp-v vinyl. (sorry) do not mean any self promotion but this is testing and its only for that purpose.


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## plan b

A couple more.


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## plan b

As you can see when you zoom in the pic it cut even the tiny ones


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## SketchBox

I would like to see what the craftrobo cc220-20 can do too with this too, anybody here got one?


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## Chani

plan b said:


> Ok,,, I did a fast cut and weed,, I could have got them all but Im lazy and my eyes don't focus that small..... I used a clean cut blade zecu 45 degree I might add that blade is a year old,,, 10 speed, 70 down pressure,,30 offset, hp-v vinyl. (sorry) do not mean any self promotion but this is testing and its only for that purpose.


Thank you for posting this!

I changed my offset to .3mm and it seems to be doing a little better.

I'm waiting for this one to finish cutting and I'll weed a little bit to see what I came out with.


----------



## mrdavid

HI I just did this with PCutter and I think it did good job I did not weed it all pain in the butt LOL but here is pick O ya I did this with AVERY vinyls it was free LOL


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## mrdavid

If any would like I can cut one out and send it to you to weed LOL


----------



## Chani

Okay, I followed Roger's conditions, and it seemed to be MUCH better! I used .3mm offset instead of .25mm.

*70g downforce 10cm/s .25mm offset using Spectra Eco-Film*

After Cutting:









Large Inner Star:









And Another:









And the Small Stars:









I didn't get QUITE the results that Roger did. You can see in the first pic that it kinda mangled the vinyl with the smallest stars, but it did MUCH better than with the .25mm offset.

But...I'm still getting slightly rounded corners on the largest inner star on two of the corners.

Any ideas on that?


----------



## plan b

I had that problem once upon a time also,,, you may want to re-check your blade depth some times that creates lifting,, if you are using a oem blade you might want to try the roland blade as I think they use the same blade,, thats why I switched and went to the cc blades, but besides that I can't remember exactly what I did to compensate,, I am sure it will come to me in the middle of the night,,, I think once you get it dialed in it should cut just fine and under normal circumstances one would not be cutting in this fine detail,, we have to remember its a $650 machine and does not have the same electronics and motors as the Graphtec or Roland with that in mind I think that its holding its own, however when you get it dialed in like mine it could be a scary contender and if it had servos it would be even more so at almost a third the cost minus various features. Its doing pretty well apples to oranges.


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## mrdavid

here is anther one slow it down like chani did and put some ink so you could see how small it went like I said if some one would like to weed I will send one and I am useing what ever was sent from US Cutter nothing else just what I got


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## mrdavid

hrer it is


----------



## mrdavid

The PCut is little cheaper then Roger but I feel it is very nice for the money and I dont know any thing about cutting just having fun learning it for now so if you want to send any thing more let me know I will do it


----------



## uscutter

You should try increasing the offset (to get rid of the rounded corners). Try .35mm or .4mm. Also, I recommend that you try reducing the downforce so that the material stays attached to the backing....


----------



## cmyk

i am not sure i understand....if i have a Roland type blade, and the vendor told me it is a 25 offset blade and i should keep those settings on the machine - i could alter the offset setting as you sugested and still be ok or even better? 
thanks


----------



## plan b

The oem offset is only a guidline and is ok for most cutting,, but we are cutting extremely small designs with very sharp turns ,so everything is out the door and on this cutter you have to dial it in but yes normally oem is fine.


----------



## uscutter

cmyk said:


> i am not sure i understand....if i have a Roland type blade, and the vendor told me it is a 25 offset blade and i should keep those settings on the machine - i could alter the offset setting as you sugested and still be ok or even better?
> thanks


If there is any give in either the carriage or the blade holder, it will in effect allow the blade to drag further behind the midpoint, which is a similar action to the actual blade offset itself (which is the distance between the midpoint of the blade and the blade tip itself). Think of it this way, the blade offset is approximatey 1/100 of an inch. Try jiggling the bladeholder and see if there is any play. Just 1/100 of an inch of play can double the effect of offset.

I should note that this is a just a theory of mine and not considered common knowledge.


----------



## plan b

Thats OK Marcus,,,, I am looking at a cutter thats built in Germany but with electronics from Japan

I think its called AHH-so-volkscutter LOL


----------



## uscutter

Chani said:


> Okay, my mistake...the "curves" that ended up as line segments were in the original design itself. I forgot that I didn't make those parts curved, but instead they were the arms of the individual stars around the edge.
> 
> I've set the blade a little farther into its holder and will be adjusting my downforce tomorrow (I cut WAY too far into the backer), so I'll give this design another try in the morning (whenever that is). Hopefully my corner issues will be resolved.
> 
> And I'll also try loading in those CorelDRAW drivers.


If you are cutting too far into the backing, you should not set less downforce, you should decrease the blade depth (using the blade holder). Your downforce should be the minimum setting that reliably cuts through your material. I would expect that a setting of 20-30 or so would be reasonable (though I have never used the material you are using, so do not know).


----------



## uscutter

If you are running from Corel directly, you will need to set the blade offset on the cutter itself. If you are using SignBlazer, Signcut, or Flexi, you should set the offset on the cutter to 0 and use the blade offset setting in the software.



Chani said:


> Well, there are drivers to run this plotter from CorelDRAW, so I'll install those and see what I can come up with.
> 
> But since this machine comes with SBE, I want to run it through the ringers, too.
> 
> One SBE issue I had was that the inner curves between the outer-most stars imported at straight lines in SBE from an AI file. So it cut them as little line segments.
> 
> I'll see how it does with the Corel drivers.


----------



## cmyk

ok, thanks for the offset info!


----------



## Chani

Thanks for the info, Marcus. 

I'll give your suggestions a try.


----------



## dodank

uscutter said:


> If you are running from Corel directly, you will need to set the blade offset on the cutter itself. If you are using SignBlazer, Signcut, or Flexi, you should set the offset on the cutter to 0 and use the blade offset setting in the software.


what is the offeset mine is out 0. should it be set to a specific number. i have p cut 630 and signblazer


----------



## Chani

I wish I could help you, Dodank, but you'll have to wait for Marcus to return...

But I have good news for my Copam tests.

I've changed the offset to .35mm, and it seems to have taken care of the corner issues. I was wrong before. Also, I'm not sure if this made the difference or not, but I changed the offset on the plotter to 0 and added it in the software. The corners are now corners. 

I'm having slight issues with cuts not being 100% complete, so weeding is a little bit more difficult (start and end points dont COMPLETELY meet, so the tiniest stars were almost impossible to keep on the backer and not lift while weeding).

We also cut and weeded our logo at 2.5" wide, and it did much better now that I've changed the offset, tho again, we had issues with start and stop points being connected still, so weeding was more difficult than before. Otherwise it looks really good.

I know I seem to be concentrating mostly on the Copam right now, but I want to get all settings correct so I know that I'm giving it as fair a chance against the other two plotters before I make my conclusions.


----------



## uscutter

dodank said:


> what is the offeset mine is out 0. should it be set to a specific number. i have p cut 630 and signblazer


Offset for the PCUT is the same for the Copam. Try .35. Experiment. If your cuts are not completing, then increase. If you see a wierd overcut at the corners, decrease. I would say it is better to have an offset setting that is too high rather than too low because it it is too low, it makes it difficult to weed.


----------



## uscutter

Good to hear. Since your cuts are not completing, the offset setting is still to low. Bump it up again to .4 or .45 until it weeds cleanly. You will know that your offset setting is too high if you see wierd perpendicular extension cuts at the corners....



Chani said:


> I wish I could help you, Dodank, but you'll have to wait for Marcus to return...
> 
> But I have good news for my Copam tests.
> 
> I've changed the offset to .35mm, and it seems to have taken care of the corner issues. I was wrong before. Also, I'm not sure if this made the difference or not, but I changed the offset on the plotter to 0 and added it in the software. The corners are now corners.
> 
> I'm having slight issues with cuts not being 100% complete, so weeding is a little bit more difficult (start and end points dont COMPLETELY meet, so the tiniest stars were almost impossible to keep on the backer and not lift while weeding).
> 
> We also cut and weeded our logo at 2.5" wide, and it did much better now that I've changed the offset, tho again, we had issues with start and stop points being connected still, so weeding was more difficult than before. Otherwise it looks really good.
> 
> I know I seem to be concentrating mostly on the Copam right now, but I want to get all settings correct so I know that I'm giving it as fair a chance against the other two plotters before I make my conclusions.


----------



## theflowerboxx

mrdavid said:


> HI I just did this with PCutter and I think it did good job I did not weed it all pain in the butt LOL but here is pick O ya I did this with AVERY vinyls it was free LOL


You cannot cut sign vinyl nearly as detailed as t-shirt vinyl. Sign will peel up on the small cuts where as the t-shirt vinyl will stay attached to the mylar backing.

But that did turn out nicely for sign vinyl.


----------



## mrdavid

will I just killed my Pcut doing the stars now have to wait and see what Marcus and Ken are going to do with this I do love the cutter hope they will send new one and I can send this one back just got to where I could use it LOL


----------



## theflowerboxx

mrdavid said:


> will I just killed my Pcut doing the stars now have to wait and see what Marcus and Ken are going to do with this I do love the cutter hope they will send new one and I can send this one back just got to where I could use it LOL


Killed it? What happened to it?


----------



## mrdavid

Marcus and I where talking about how to make the change that I need and it died half way though the cutting only had it for three weeks now think that motor burn up in it


----------



## LLfashionhouse

My cutter is a Master cutter and i was warned not to buy it and it turns out to be the best 499.00 that i spend. its a 28" with stand included. My business partner have a roland and he send it back once to have it repaird. They are just man made and the best can be defective. The only problem that i see is with the software i think all soft ware should be able to use on any cutter. mine come with sign go pro limited fonts available.


----------



## Chani

uscutter said:


> Good to hear. Since your cuts are not completing, the offset setting is still to low. Bump it up again to .4 or .45 until it weeds cleanly. You will know that your offset setting is too high if you see wierd perpendicular extension cuts at the corners....


 
I increased it to .4mm, and it mangled the smallest stars again, so I figured that the .35mm was where it needed to be...

Our logo was weeding great before with a .25mm and .3mm, but some of the corners were a little wonky, and even a few of the straight lines, but now they look great, but weed a little more difficultly.

Something to note...I can't think of a time that you would ordinarily cut or weed anything close to as small as this design under normal circumstances. Mark was a little disappointed with the Copam at first after seeing how our logo and the middle star looked, but now that we've changed the offset to .35mm, he's satisfied with what this plotter is capable of.

Okay, time for more tests, unless someone else wants to see something else with this one or you want me to make another adjustment.


----------



## cmyk

i had some tracking issue once, it was a 2 meters long sheet of vinyl.
the speed was high, 50 i believe, it cut ok except it did't close a rectanle, it left 2 mm between the lines.
maybe you could do this kind of testing, but i believe it would be pricey to waste that much material.
again, i was using oracal sign vinyl.


----------



## cmyk

2 meters = aprox. 79 inches 

2 millimeters = aprox. 0.079 inches


----------



## Chani

We may get a cheap roll of sign vinyl to try things like this out. I'll need to talk to Mark about that.

I can't guarantee it, tho.

Great idea for another test!


----------



## Chani

Oh...WOW!

Onto a test with the Roland. Sorry, no pictures yet... (Rodney or any mods...would it be okay if we posted anything we do with our logo in this thread? No phone number or website address.)

We decided make some little 1.25" x 1.25" labels with our logo on them. I bought some 13x19 matte photo sticker sheets, and I was going to contour cut them on our Graphtec. I decided that since I had the Roland here, I'd just try contour cutting with it.

A little preface...when you go to contour cut media on a Graphtec Ce5000 series machine, you create your art and registration marks, making sure that none of your image to be cut extends beyond your registration marks. Then when you go to cut, the plotter doesn't care what size your media is, but you hit "Cut/Plot" then it gives you a little popup dialog to align your blade to your first registration mark (lower-right). Once you get that lined up, you go back to your computer and hit "okay" or "send" or whatever it is (sorry, can't remember). It then reads your registration marks and cuts your images.

Now, the Roland GX-24...

Set your sheet size in the printer setup, create your registration marks in Cut Studio, lay out your artwork and cut lines, print, load into your plotter, and hit cut. It then AUTOMATICALLY finds all of your reg marks, then cuts.

WOW! True AUTOMATIC REGISTRATION MARK SENSING! (Sorry for yelling  )

I just had to share...


----------



## Chani

Okay, I have something that I can post without issues. 

I made size labels. Little 3/4" circles with S-2XL sizes. 216 labels per 13x19 page. 

With Reg Marks:









After Cutting and Peeling Non-Label Areas of Paper:









Easy, easy, easy, on the Roland!!!


----------



## Chani

One thing I should mention about contour cutting on the roland...I'm not sure how much skewing it will allow for, so I'm assuming you need to load your media as straight as possible. Partially because if you're not using a mask like Magic Mask or TTD Mask you don't have too much room for your pinch rollers if you use the maximum settings for the reg marks. Your rollers do need to be outside of your reg marks, so you only have a couple of mm's play for your pinch rollers.

That said, I haven't had a read error yet.


----------



## Chani

Oh, as with any plotter or major piece of equipment:










*Use It*


----------



## Chani

Okay, last one for now on the Roland until I have that tape for the video camera:

Contour Cut Labels for a Customer:









"Weeded"









Again, VERY simple with the Roland...


----------



## SketchBox

Chani said:


> Oh, as with any plotter or major piece of equipment:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Use It*


What is this strange artifact youve discovered. Youve unleased mans krytonite, you will now take over the world I assume? 

Sorry Im in a silly mood today.  Awsome work by the way chani, this is very informative.


----------



## Chani

LOL! 

Don't worry...it's okay...they won't hurt you...it's there to help you...it won't bite... 

Okay, I found some amazing screen video recording software...for FREE! It seems to do the job, and coupled with Sony Vegas 6 video editing software (in my last life I was a video editor), it should do the job for the videos I'd like to do. Unfortunately I'll need to use the video camera's mic as mine doesn't seem to work... 

I'll try to get some video tomorrow, but I forgot that it was Easter and my family is having a get-together, so it may not be until Monday now.

I'll make sure to get noise comparisons between these three machines so you all know what I'm talking about! 

Josh sent his list of what he'd like me to accomplish with these tests. Hopefully I'll be able to get video along with each one. I may need to start a new thread anyway so people can get straight to the tests.

Maybe I'll start a new thread for each individual test to make it easy to seperate the massive amount of information that will be posted by me and everyone else that would like to get involved in this. Josh's list is pretty long (but expected).

Bare with me. I'll get all of this done as soon as possible. I know there are a few people hanging on these tests to see the results before they buy a plotter.

Again, I'll be as fair and complete as I can with these tests.  If anyone thinks I missed something, or would like to add information of their own, either with any of these plotters or others not considered here, I'm sure everyone would appreciate if you posted. 

Have a great Easter, everyone! It's a family time for me and my family. It's also mine and Mark's second easter together.  He wasn't used to Easter Basket hunts at his age.


----------



## Chani

I just had my first registration mark read error today with the Roland. I needed to contour cut some name badges, so I used photo paper and the backer to some apparel vinyl (our Magic Mask is just too sticky and we couldn't get the paper off!!!).

It turns out that you need to place the bottom edge of your printed paper exactly along the bottom of your carrier sheet. I set it in a little at first, and the Roland couldn't find the first registration mark.

No big deal. Now that I know that, I can contour cut with absolutely no problems with this machine.

I'm lovin' it! (Oops...is that trademarked?  )


----------



## mrdavid

will it is all most noon here and I have called them.put what they call Ticket and have not got any call or Email from them yet and they cant tell me that they dont know when I was talking to them when my Pcutter died now I hope I can get help soon becouse know I will be losing money on shirts that I could be cutting


----------



## kenimes

You were the first person I responded to when I got in this morning. We are on Pacific time and open at 9am. It is 9:01 now.

I responded to your PMs already.


----------



## mrdavid

OK Ken is Helping me and I may have not none about time thing


----------



## Chani

Grrrrrrr!!!!!

I was just getting set to edit video for a noise comparison test between the Copam and Roland when I realized that the camera that my parents lent me wasn't Firewire! It's mini-usb! 

No video until at least this evening. 

Oh, well, I guess that means I can record some video of our Graphtec to throw in there now.


----------



## mrdavid

well they are going to ship new motor to me I did tell them that I would send old one back and I did ask them to ship over nite that I would pay for it .

I did ask for over nite so I should pay for it that is the way I feel


----------



## Chani

VIDEO!

Here's the plotter noise comparison video! 

I left the full length of cutting the stars design (slightly modified) in for each plotter, and then at the very end of this video, I have ten second of each plotter one after another. So you can get an idea of what they sound like as their cutting, and then compare them to each other.

Keep in mind that my camera was RIGHT next to these plotters, so you get a little extra noise, and the fan noise on the Roland and Graphtec seem louder than they actually are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeAv11iTFBg

Enjoy!


----------



## mrdavid

Chani it did not work


----------



## Chani

Try is again. It's being finicky...


----------



## Chani

It's not playing for me either right now, but it is for Mark.


----------



## mrdavid

ok just seen it


----------



## mrdavid

Graphtec win on that test but my cutter did not seem to make that much noise at least I dont think it does LOL


----------



## paulo

Chani said:


> YouTube - Plotters Noise Test


Since all of them are noisy, are we just going with which one is less annoying or which is more tolerable?

LOL


----------



## Chani

Yes, they all make noise. 

But keep in mind that the fan noise isn't as noticeable when you're standing a few feet away from the Roland or Graphtec. The Copam seems to be the loudest motors, while the Graphtec and Roland have those "clicks" when the blade goes up and down, then the fan noise. 

BTW, if the video isn't working for you (it's not working for me right now), try again later. It took about an hour to upload the video, so there may be some issues with it being either so long or so new.


----------



## Chani

Okay, girls and boys...we're about to add another plotter to these tests! 

US Cutters is sending a LaserPoint plotter to us (okay, where the heck are we going to put THAT one! LOL! ), so we'll add that one into the mix, too. 

It's still in a different class of plotters from the Roland and Graphtec, but at least it also does contour cutting, so we'll see how that one stacks up against the big boys!


----------



## mrdavid

why did you put the camera on the two cutters at one end. And then put the camera on the other end of the other cutter I think that would make the one little loader then what it is


----------



## Chani

It's how I have my plotters set up. It couldn't be helped. The Roland and Graphtec are a little louder in these videos than they really should be because of it, but I couldn't set my camera any other way, unfortunately. 

I'll see what I can do and place the camera a little farther away from the plotters and run this again.


----------



## Chani

New Videos coming up this evening.

Sorry, everyone. But thanks for letting me know that this could have been better. That's what I need to hear!


----------



## cmyk

well, i recognise my copam growling

in my opinion, the test is relevant the way it was conducted.

i think copam is the loudest, followed by graphtec and roland, in this oreder

chani, i have a question, please.
when facing the front of the copam, can you move the right pinch roll all the way to the left?
mine gets blocked at about 10 inches from the right side (facing the front of the plotter) in some sort of piece (my english is not helping me here, i forgot what it's the correct word for that, but i now you need a screw driver to use it  )


----------



## mrdavid

> think copam is the loudest, followed by graphtec and roland, in this oreder


I am not saying that copam is not the loudest I am just say you are testing they should be the same becouse we know that copam is loader just how much you cant tell enless the camera is set up the same for each cutter is all I am saying


----------



## plan b

Chani,, If you really want I will send you a Summa a GCC and the Mutah cutter too so you can have more fun,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOL


----------



## cmyk

Roger, could you please tell my how do you manage the righ pinch roll of your copam?

(i heard GCC are excellent machines)


----------



## Girlzndollz

> US Cutters is sending a LaserPoint plotter to us (okay, where the heck are we going to put THAT one! LOL! ), so we'll add that one into the mix, too.
> 
> It's still in a different class of plotters from the Roland and Graphtec, but at least it also does contour cutting, so we'll see how that one stacks up against the big boys!


 
Hi Guys,

Does anyone know the retail price of this one? Thanks.


----------



## Chani

Th pinch rollers on the Copam only go so far to each side. The right-hand one will only go to the beginning of the third grit roller from the right, and the left-hand on will only go to the begining or so of the same grit roller.

If you have a narrow piece of vinyl, just put it on the rollers that you can access with your pich rollers. You don't need it to go all the way to the right or left. 

Okay, another video is about to be edited. I THINK I have it more fair this time.


----------



## Chani

Hi Kelly,

It's $429 without a stand and $499 with. 

You can see all of their models at Welcome to SellTopia, LLC -


----------



## Chani

plan b said:


> Chani,, If you really want I will send you a Summa a GCC and the Mutah cutter too so you can have more fun,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOL


 
LOL! Now wouldn't THAT be something! 

I've been told that at least one of the Roland reps knows who I am and mentioned me by name at a demonstration.


----------



## theflowerboxx

Chani nice video. If those are all that loud in the demo my refine would of blown the mic up.    but I still love 'er.


----------



## plan b

Cmyk,, The pinch rollers are fixed in that configuration because of the optical material measurement device, otherwise I don't think the optics would work.


----------



## Chani

plan b said:


> Cmyk,, The pinch rollers are fixed in that configuration because of the optical material measurement device, otherwise I don't think the optics would work.


That's exactly right, Roger. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Chani

Uploading a new video now. This one is about half the length.


----------



## Chani

Okay, I uploaded a new video (and left the original). I started a new thread to discuss the noise levels.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t43681.html#post259646

I'll create a new thread for each of the aspects of these tests.

I should be posting a thread about ease of setup and first impressions of the different software packages tomorrow (I hope).


----------



## flattop

Chani said:


> Hi Kelly,
> 
> It's $429 without a stand and $499 with.
> 
> You can see all of their models at Welcome to SellTopia, LLC -


I wonder why it's cheaper than the copam 2500?


----------



## Chani

From what I understand, it's based on their less-robust Refine line of plotters. The contour-cutting ability is not as much in the machine itself as in the software that comes with it. The only real major change to the machine itself is strapping a little laser pointer to it. The software then knows where to cut based on where the machine is when you line it up to your registration marks.

So, while that feature is ultra-cool, the machine is not as bullet-proof as the Copam is.


----------



## flattop

I hope it works i need a plotter and if i can get it for a third of the price of a roland and it could contour cut that would be great. thanks chani these test couldn't come at a better time.


----------



## Chani

No problem!

I can't wait to get that one to try it out.

Honestly...from what I've done so far and from the video I saw on the LaserPoint, I'd say that it's not really any less difficult or time-consuming to use the LaserPoint than to use a Graphtec for contour cutting. 

We'll see if it's as easy as I believe it to be with the LaserPoint. That plotter may just open up a LOT of doors for people when it comes to inkjet transfers. 

That said, the Roland is the way to go for contour cutting if you can afford it. It's simply been a joy to do contour cutting on this GX-24 that Josh sent!

Don't worry, everyone...that's not my final conclusion on everything. I've yet to reach that and will post a new thread for my final thoughts on all of these machines.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani said:


> Honestly...from what I've done so far and from the video I saw on the LaserPoint, I'd say that it's not really any less difficult or time-consuming to use the LaserPoint than to use a Graphtec for contour cutting.
> 
> We'll see if it's as easy as I believe it to be with the LaserPoint. That plotter may just open up a LOT of doors for people when it comes to inkjet transfers.


Hey, this could be a great discovery, and a nice new piece of equipment to add to the IJ heat transfer folks line up. We are at the lowest end of the budgets, so this might be a perfect match.

Thanks for hitting on that thought, Chani. It's great that you do the IJ as well as vinyl. You're able to cross between both worlds like this. You, and Mrdavid, too. He does everything, just about, and soon will be all I think. Awesome, very resourceful. We'll be watching on this little number and hoping for the best. Thanks.


----------



## kenimes

Chani said:


> From what I understand, it's based on their less-robust Refine line of plotters. The contour-cutting ability is not as much in the machine itself as in the software that comes with it. The only real major change to the machine itself is strapping a little laser pointer to it. The software then knows where to cut based on where the machine is when you line it up to your registration marks.
> 
> So, while that feature is ultra-cool, the machine is not as bullet-proof as the Copam is.


Close, but the LaserPoint is actually based on the Creation PCut series cutter, but with the laser feature and color of the unit being the only difference. The Copam is still our professional series cutter, and the Creation, LaserPoint, and Refine series are a step down from the Copam.


----------



## Chani

Thanks, Ken! I knew it was the Refine or the PCut. I couldn't remember which.


----------



## Chani

Ken, just so I know when I get that LaserPoint, is there anything that it CAN'T do that the Copam can? Flock? Glitter? Reflective?


----------



## kenimes

Chani said:


> Ken, just so I know when I get that LaserPoint, is there anything that it CAN'T do that the Copam can? Flock? Glitter? Reflective?


 
Nope, it will cut all the same materials as the Copam. It does not have quite as much downforce as the Copam, but will still cut flock, glitter, reflective, etc.....but maybe not the thicker (35mil) sandblast resist like the Copam could handle. 25mil resist should be fine. 60 degree blade for the thicker stuff.


----------



## Chani

Got it. I just didn't want to ruin this machine!


----------



## mrdavid

Dont do the stars then that is what I did when mine went out


----------



## Chani

I'm truly sorry about that, David. I had no idea that those stars would actually damage a machine.


----------



## mrdavid

I am joking did not mean to make you feel like that it could of happin to any one I am working with US CUTTER to get it back up if not then they will send new one and I will send every thing back with the one I have but then I will know how to fix them and it is easy to change parts to I would do this all over if I had to LOL


----------



## mrdavid

And yes I am going to do the stars when fix I will not give up that easy LOL


----------



## Chani

LOL. 

I'm sorry, everyone...I was going to have my preliminary comparison done yesterday, but I had trouble sleeping the other night, so I ran out of time yesterday from sleeping all day.

Then I was going to do it today, but we just got a job to do a full-page magazine ad for one of our clients that needs to be finished Friday, with a preliminary design done today. So I need to work on that.

I promise I'll have these tests done as soon as I can.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani, no worries, please take care of yourself and your work first. We all appreciate what you are doing here, and this is above and beyond the call of duty. If I remember, this thread was on hold for 6 months before you picked it up and got it rolling, haha. Everyone is patient, no worries. Be well!


----------



## Chani

Thanks, Kelly. 

I'm just excited about this new job we got. We've been designing shirts for this client, but this is the first true graphic design and layout work they've had for us. And I get to use my new Wacom! Whoo hoo!


----------



## ino

Hi Chani.

Firstly I would like to thank you for all your efforts, you have done a great job in helping all of us.

However I still have a question, in one of your posts you have shown a manual that came with your roland plotter.

In your opinion which of the three plotters tested, has the best and most user friendly manual for any person just starting out.


----------



## Girlzndollz

Chani said:


> Thanks, Kelly.
> 
> I'm just excited about this new job we got. We've been designing shirts for this client, but this is the first true graphic design and layout work they've had for us. And I get to use my new Wacom! Whoo hoo!


 
Yea!! Congratulations, Chani!! "You go girl!"

I just wanted to say hope this goes great, and so happy you get to use your new toy (wacom)!! Best wishes, and good luck. 

We'll be here when you are ready. Don't worry about us, we all work, and we all know you have to pay the bills ahead of the test. 

Thank you for all your work, and I'm sure if there's anything we can do to help you, just ask and we'll be there.


----------



## gmille39

flattop said:


> I wonder why it's cheaper than the copam 2500?


I was going to ask that myself but glad someone did. It seems better, but if it's better, why is it cheaper? Why do people ask for clean dirt, call it jumbo shrimp. How can you have dead livestock? Why do you park on a driveway and drive on a parkway. How can you be half dead. How can something turn up missing? Hmmm!


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## mrdavid

Ok voice mail never can get any one. Voice mail is full cant leave anything.will the mother board did not work so now I get my money and lose some in shipping or send me out new one whitch I still pay for shipping but will have cutter that will work NOW IT IS UP TO US CUTTER????


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## mrdavid

Ok US CUTTER is sending me new one so now I am happy


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## kenimes

mrdavid said:


> Ok US CUTTER is sending me new one so now I am happy


 
I responded to your PMs.


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## Chani

Hi All,

Just a little update...I've been up to my neck in business projects, but I should have some down time in a couple of days. So I'll be able to get to this again very soon.

Look for a new thread (I'll post a link here) on First Impressions of each of these machines, as well as ease of setup and use. I might even be able to sneak in a video or two if time permits! 

So, Josh, I haven't taken over and left it hanging...I'll be getting back to work on this really soon! 

I'm also trying to give myself a crash course on Dreamweaver and Flash. I love my upgrade from CS1 to CS3 Web Premium!


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## Chani

I should also mention that I received the LaserPoint, so I'll be adding that in the mix, too. 

I haven't even had time to open that one yet.


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## JoshEllsworth

Chani said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just a little update...I've been up to my neck in business projects, but I should have some down time in a couple of days. So I'll be able to get to this again very soon.
> 
> Look for a new thread (I'll post a link here) on First Impressions of each of these machines, as well as ease of setup and use. I might even be able to sneak in a video or two if time permits!
> 
> So, Josh, I haven't taken over and left it hanging...I'll be getting back to work on this really soon!
> 
> I'm also trying to give myself a crash course on Dreamweaver and Flash. I love my upgrade from CS1 to CS3 Web Premium!


I know you have a business to run first

I appreciate you fitting it in at all - you have done great so far.


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## kenimes

Indeed, you are doing fine. Business comes first.


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## cronosSTYLE

Hey Josh, sorry it's not where my thread have to be, my name is Hennessy and i'm trying to pm, and email you, but still no answer...idont know if you have received them? whatever...i'm interested about the "t-shirt crossover package".hope you will have this one.
thanks

hennessy


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## Chani

Sorry everyone...initial writeup coming tomorrow (Saturday).

I really didn't mean for it to take this long.


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## COEDS

Chani, I admire you for taking on this project and for doing a GREAT JOB !!! I feel getting a non partial evaluation is worth waiting for. I think we all realized you were doing this in conjunction with running your business. I know , I speak for all the forum members by saying THANK YOU for taking your time and doing such GREAT JOB !!!!! . Thanks again. ....... JB


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## Chani

Awwwwww....shucks. 

No, really, I'm honored to do these comparisons.

Okay, now I just need to sit down and write my initial review. The only problem with my first writeup is that it won't include the LaserPoint as I haven't had a chance to check that one out yet. But I'll get to that plotter this week, or possibly even tomorrow.

The real good news for us is that our first major account has come back to us for a second and third order, and they'll possibly even come back for a fourth this coming week, plus we're working on more designs for them.  All vinyl so far, but we may have two plastisol projects soon.

Okay, time to write that review...


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## Chani

Here's my first impressions comparison thread:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t45415.html#post269197


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## mrdavid

Chani thanks for all the work you are doing with them test keep up the good work PS if you can I need help with the Signblazer Elements it is not what I like to use and I am having lot of problems with it I may end up buying new program dont like this one


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## Chani

Hi David,

What problems are you having with it? I haven't gone TOO deep into SignBlazer Elements yet, but I'm learning it... Honestly, it's not as bad as I originally thought it was. There are just a few settings that you need to watch for every time you go to cut.

I haven't tried contour cutting with SignBlazer Elements yet, tho... That will hopefully come today or tomorrow.


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## dodank

mrdavid said:


> Chani thanks for all the work you are doing with them test keep up the good work PS if you can I need help with the Signblazer Elements it is not what I like to use and I am having lot of problems with it I may end up buying new program dont like this one


HI DAVID,
WHAT PROBLEMS R U HAVING IN SIGNBLAZER. I LOVE IT. MAYBE I CAN HELP.


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## mrdavid

Hi dodank every time I try to down load A Vector Clipart it will not let me cut I do save them in my Documents then go to get them and it will not let me pick them or when I get them I have to redo them with there Vector and it miss them up when I had my last cutter 2 years a go I had no problems with the art now I cant get it to work


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## badalou

mrdavid said:


> Hi dodank every time I try to down load A Vector Clipart it will not let me cut I do save them in my Documents then go to get them and it will not let me pick them or when I get them I have to redo them with there Vector and it miss them up when I had my last cutter 2 years a go I had no problems with the art now I cant get it to work


Be sure you save your art work in EPS. I used that program with my old JPS and hated it. I now use flexisign 7.6. are you designing your designs in Illustrator or Corel? Bring your clip art into Illustrator or corel first. Click on it and make sure it is vectorized. Sometime people go to save the art work but save it in another format so your Cutter software will not read it.


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## mrdavid

thanks Lou ok now I got it ya I am thinking of going to signcut X2


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## dodank

mrdavid said:


> Hi dodank every time I try to down load A Vector Clipart it will not let me cut I do save them in my Documents then go to get them and it will not let me pick them or when I get them I have to redo them with there Vector and it miss them up when I had my last cutter 2 years a go I had no problems with the art now I cant get it to work


yeah david, lou is right. sorry for the delay. sometimes i do have problem with my art but the majority i have to play with to get it to act right. also if it's not save in a illust file eps8 or less u have too put it in corel and change the format then save it, then it works fine. david there's also another file in that program the sbd files they sometimes can be found there. good luck sweetie hope this helps.


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## flattop

Hey guys im having trouble setting up my new laserpoint i can't get it to cut my computer skills are't the greatest and it my first plotter. I really need to get this going i thought it would be easy so i opened my mouth and said i could have 13 names by monday evening on some jerseys thanks for any info.


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## dodank

flattop said:


> Hey guys im having trouble setting up my new laserpoint i can't get it to cut my computer skills are't the greatest and it my first plotter. I really need to get this going i thought it would be easy so i opened my mouth and said i could have 13 names by monday evening on some jerseys thanks for any info.


WHAT SOFTWARE R U USING.


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## dodank

dodank said:


> WHAT SOFTWARE R U USING.


CHECK THIS FORUM OUT U WILL FIND ALL YOUR ANSWERS. USCUTTER FORUM.


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## flattop

thanks for the info i got it to cut .


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## mrdavid

dodank how do you turn that box off. I have some small vinyl and I keep getting that box that it cuts first. then every thing else sorry for asking so much


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## flattop

I get the same thing it wont cut if i try cut without tiles im just happy that i got to finish that job i had and a couple of extras.


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## Chani

If you're talking about the weed border, the box that is cut around your design, you can turn that off.










Tiles are something different. What Tiles are for is if your design will not fit in the width of your vinyl, you can "tile" it so that your design is in multiple pieces. Say you have a 24" plotter and you want to cut a design that's 36" x 36". You would create Tiles so that half of your design is cut, then on another Tile, the other half of your design is cut. You would then apply them with a slight overlap (I'm not sure if SBE adds the overlap automatically or not, but most sign cutting software does).

A weed border is the box that's cut around your design so that it makes it easier to weed in some instances, especially if you cut more than one copy of your design.

In the screencap I posted, the little number after Weed All is the spacing between your design and your weed border. You can change that to suite.


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## dodank

Chani said:


> If you're talking about the weed border, the box that is cut around your design, you can turn that off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tiles are something different. What Tiles are for is if your design will not fit in the width of your vinyl, you can "tile" it so that your design is in multiple pieces. Say you have a 24" plotter and you want to cut a design that's 36" x 36". You would create Tiles so that half of your design is cut, then on another Tile, the other half of your design is cut. You would then apply them with a slight overlap (I'm not sure if SBE adds the overlap automatically or not, but most sign cutting software does).
> 
> A weed border is the box that's cut around your design so that it makes it easier to weed in some instances, especially if you cut more than one copy of your design.
> 
> In the screencap I posted, the little number after Weed All is the spacing between your design and your weed border. You can change that to suite.


hi david,
chani answered ur question. i agree.


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## mrdavid

thanks that was what I needed


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## kenimes

flattop said:


> Hey guys im having trouble setting up my new laserpoint i can't get it to cut my computer skills are't the greatest and it my first plotter. I really need to get this going i thought it would be easy so i opened my mouth and said i could have 13 names by monday evening on some jerseys thanks for any info.


Send me a PM with your phone number and the best time to catch you in front of the cutter and computer, and I will be happy to phone you and walk you through the setup.


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## mrdavid

Ken thanks so much for all your help I know you guys are busy just wanted to say thanks


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## kenimes

mrdavid said:


> Ken thanks so much for all your help I know you guys are busy just wanted to say thanks


 
No problem. Always happy to assist, time permitting of course. I have done alot of catching up over the last week, so responses should be more timely now.


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## MYDAMIT

Does ROBO Master software template can use in Roland cutter. I know this both roland and graphtec has ARMS that can cut any template. But this File of robo master template can also be used in Roland cutter?thanks


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## Chani

As far as I know, ROBO Master Pro is not compatible with the GX-24, and CutStudio is not compatible with the Graphtec plotters.

As for ARMS, they use two TOTALLY different systems, so the reg marks from one wouldn't work on the other.

Sorry...


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## Chani

Another comparison thread:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/vinyl-cutters-plotters-transfers/t45799.html


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## mrtoad

Your time on this is very appreciated. Thank you so much!


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## Chani

Thank you, Mr Toad! 

Okay, everyone...I'm so sorry this has been taking so long lately. We just got EXTREMELY busy.

For example, we're in the middle of an 1100 shirt, two-color vinyl application order. I know, I know...we're insane. We would have used plastisol or outsourced screenprinting for this one, except with this one, we couldn't. Can't go into more detail.

We should be done with this order in a few days, then I PROMISE I'll get back to this.


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## COEDS

Chani your work comes first. Great to hear your busy. .... JB


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## Designfrog

Hi Plan B,

Sorry to jump in the middle of this post but I just bought a COPAM 3500 and I did my very first (ever) cut and it cut right through the backing using the 'test cut". I tryed for over an hour to get it to cut properly. I'm using Oracal 631. I'm calling UScutter today to ask some question about the balde assembly because when I took it out of the bag I could not see the blade sticking out at all. Then I starting messing with it and now it either cuts to deep or lightly scores the top of the vinyl. It says in the manual to set the blade at 1/64's of an inch but I don't have anything to measure it and have to eyeball that. I also only got 1 blade with the machine and the manual shows I should have 3 blades. So any recommended blade to purchase would also be helpful.
Anyhow, if you or someone could be so kind to share your settings if using oracal 631 that would help get me started, thanks!


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## plan b

Set your blade depth at half the width of a credit card that is kinda rule of thumb, on you machine panel set your down force to around 70 grams,, you can adjust it from there if it still cuts to deep


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## Designfrog

Woops forgot to ask...when you look at your blade holder can you actually "see" the blade sticking out at all? 

The reason I ask is I recall when I first opened the bag up and took it out of the packaging I was thinking where is the blade? That's when I stared to mess around with it. It was probably fine right out of the package...lol!

Thanks,
Sandy


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