# Re-digitizing a kiss cut applique from Stahls



## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I decided to start doing applique and the first thing was to get one of those two color kiss cut pre-aligned applique words from Stahls. It's is distressed laser cut.

I had them make bean stitching for the background layer and the foreground letters.

Along the bottom of the background there is a really good offset (amount of space) between the trace and the tackdown bean stitches. Along the top there is almost no offset at all. The tackdown bean stitching along the top is basically right on top of the trace stitches.

Each time I tried it, I would end up with half or more of the tackdown bean stitching along the top not even hitting the fabric.

I was able to manually move the tackdown bean stitching along the top down some. I got it to where the bean stitching on the single kiss-cut background layer looks really good.

Unfortunately the foreground letters is the same thing. The offset along the bottom of the letters is perfect. The offset along the top of the letters is to close to the trace. I realize that with bean stitching and distressed letters you are supposed to have a little chaos, but way more of the stitching end up above the letter (not hitting it), than I would like.

The way that Stahl's software digitized the bean sticking for the foreground letters is making it extremely hard to work with. What comes up on my designshop 9 Pro+ is each letter's bean stitching is alternating between actually bean stitches and walk stitches that backtract to create the look of bean stitches. Because of this back and forth it has proved very difficult to work with the file.

I asked Stahls if they could just send me a vector graphic to create my own sew file. They said no.

I also don't know if the pre-aligned foreground lettering is so great. I just did one when I pulled the foreground letters off, re-added the trace for the foreground letters, then replaced them by hand. I think that is actually a lot more full proof that pre-aligned. It also would have been significantly cheaper had I ordered it that way. However, even with hand placing the foreground letters I still have the same issue with the Stahl's sew file having an offset that is way too small along the top of the letters.

Thanks for any advice you can give. I'm including the original graphic of the sew file. You can see that for both the background layer and the foreground letters, the offset of the bean stitching is much smaller along the top than it is along the bottom. The bottom is perfect.


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## moosevalley (Jan 5, 2011)

I had a problem a few years ago, I bought twill stitch pro plus thinking that the letters you buy from stahls would work with it as I had seen on the webinars. Turns out not all of them do. I had bought a bunch of precut letters already now wasnt sure what to do. I ended up scanning the letters so that I could get the shape into the computer, then saved as a jpg, then vectorized it and imported it into twill stitch pro plus to create the sew file. Few more extra steps but got the job done.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

If you paid them for the stitch file and they gave you a file that doesn't work correctly, why aren't you having them fix it? Just curious...

If it's a DST file, I would think just about anyone with digitizing software could edit it and change it. At the same time, without having the cut pieces along with the file, it's a hit or miss proposition to correct it which is why I would go back to Stahls...

I do a lot of 2 layer lettering designs where the fabric is die cut. It takes some time and a bit of trial and error but I do the same as Moose, I scan the cut pieces, convert them to vectors, then digitize the shapes in my digitizing software.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I understand what you are saying. I wouldn't be able to get the shape I need from scanning the distressed letters though. The bean stitch is based on an non-distressed letter.

I can convert the background layer trace to applique with my DesignShop software. This allowed me to experiment with using different types of stitches with the background kiss-cut layer. If it wasn't for the screwed up way that Stahls digitized the tackdown bean stitches on the letters, I would be able to convert the bean stitch tackdown for the letters into an applique of the letter and create a new bean stitch that is offset more.

I'm in the process of having a bunch of squares cut in different colors. It will be to put flags on polo shirts that are a lot less stitch dense. With that I will be fulling in control of everything. I'm thinking that maybe I should ONLY do applique where I supply the shapes. I'm really not liking the fact that I can't easily change stuff. I should have started with something more simple than going all out and getting a two layer distressed applique like this.




moosevalley said:


> I had a problem a few years ago, I bought twill stitch pro plus thinking that the letters you buy from stahls would work with it as I had seen on the webinars. Turns out not all of them do. I had bought a bunch of precut letters already now wasnt sure what to do. I ended up scanning the letters so that I could get the shape into the computer, then saved as a jpg, then vectorized it and imported it into twill stitch pro plus to create the sew file. Few more extra steps but got the job done.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I think I figured out a way to partially fix what I don't like about the tackdown bean stitching on the foreground letters. I took the sew file and turned everything off but the trace and the bean stitching for the foreground layers in the original. They I moved each set of bean stitching to better center it within the trace. I needed to move every letter down and a few of the letters over to the right. Some of the letters had similar offsets on both the right and the left, while two of them, the left side of the bean stitching was basically right over top of the trace.

I was looking at pictures of Abercrombie and Fitch shirts on google images and it look like they put a lot of offset between the bean stitching and the edge of the letters. They don't have a lot of bean stitching riding the edges like the sew file that was given to me.

If I convert the trace for each letter to an applique with my software, I get squiggly line bean stitching that follows the distress. I don't get straight lines. 

If I buy any more Any Word/Any Way products I probably just will never get a distressed one again. That way I can at least create my own customized sew file out of the trace stitches that I get from Stahl's sew file.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I did go to Stahl's first, but wasn't given any help. I told them that everything is skewed towards the top. The woman on the phone basically said their software creates it automatically and you get what you get. I asked for a vector graphic instead and she said they couldn't provide that.

I can and have editing the sew file. However, the way they digitized the tackdown bean stitching for the letters is a mess. It is not all bean stitching. It alternates between segments of bean stitching and walk stitching that backtracks to create the same look as bean stitches. Before I can manipulate the bean stitching I would have to spend a serious amount of time going over everything to get all the extra backtracking lines out and then converting the walks to bean and then combining all the segments into a fluid piece.



tfalk said:


> If you paid them for the stitch file and they gave you a file that doesn't work correctly, why aren't you having them fix it? Just curious...
> 
> If it's a DST file, I would think just about anyone with digitizing software could edit it and change it. At the same time, without having the cut pieces along with the file, it's a hit or miss proposition to correct it which is why I would go back to Stahls...
> 
> I do a lot of 2 layer lettering designs where the fabric is die cut. It takes some time and a bit of trial and error but I do the same as Moose, I scan the cut pieces, convert them to vectors, then digitize the shapes in my digitizing software.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

bradesembroidery said:


> I do not understand, then you get the file from its seams, whether the payment? If not free, why not offer to modify?


Yeah, they charge $36 for the sew file.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I've noticed most of the examples of two layer stuff on the Stahls website does not have any tackdown stitching on the background layer.

Here is an example. Do you think it looks better without any bean stitching on the background layer?










It was actually make it easier for me. The one I am doing has a white background layer and I'm putting it on black hoodies. If I do a trace in black stitches, the stitches are completely invisible in the finished product, but my alignment is sucky. Even if I shine a bright light on the trace stitches it is hard to line up the applique to them. If I do a trace in white, my alignment is good but you see white stitches here and there around the applique in the finished product. I've already determined that if I peel off the pre-aligned foreground letters and position them by hand the conventional way I get the best results. I think I might get the best results by using a black trace, having no bean stitching on the background, then tracing the foreground letters and placing them by hand.

Now that I have actually tried applique, the pre-aligned letters doesn't seem so great any more.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

patrioticflags said:


> Here is an example. Do you think it looks better without any bean stitching on the background layer?


Honestly, it doesn't matter what we think, it matters what your clients think look best 

Understood about Stahl's response, I guess they think they don't need to be responsive to a client... That's one of the reasons we decided to do everything in-house including digitizing. Nobody else to blame or wait for... I bought the Roland GX24 package from one of their subsidiaries a few years ago so we do all our own cutting, etc.

I have a client who does not want to see any of the positioning lines around the lettering. I usually offset it by 4 mm, then make sure there is roughly the same overlap all the way around the design. Once the zig zag is done, you can't see the placement stitches.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I got my Melco XTS two years ago. I learned really fast to do my own digitizing. First I started using these overseas discount digitizing, and all they were doing was auto-vectorizing the stuff. I also bought a bunch of stuff from Embroidery Designs. A lot of that stuff is also just auto-vectorized and never tested.

Nearly half the digitized files I got from Embroidery Designs had at least one major obvious flaw. Maybe one out of four was usable right off the bat.

In one case I got an embroidery of a Bavarian flag, which is a bunch of blue diamonds on a white field. As soon as I opened it in my software it was blatantly obvious that one of the blue diamonds was messed up and was going to look like crap. The funny thing is when I took the Bavarian flag svg from wikipedia and autodigitized it, I got virtually the same thing, with the same blue diamond being screwed up in the same way.

Eventually I taught myself enough about DesignShop Pro+ that I could digitize my own design faster than the amount of time it took me to doctor up a purchase from Embroidery Designs.







tfalk said:


> Honestly, it doesn't matter what we think, it matters what your clients think look best
> 
> Understood about Stahl's response, I guess they think they don't need to be responsive to a client... That's one of the reasons we decided to do everything in-house including digitizing. Nobody else to blame or wait for... I bought the Roland GX24 package from one of their subsidiaries a few years ago so we do all our own cutting, etc.
> 
> I have a client who does not want to see any of the positioning lines around the lettering. I usually offset it by 4 mm, then make sure there is roughly the same overlap all the way around the design. Once the zig zag is done, you can't see the placement stitches.


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## patrioticflags (Sep 2, 2012)

I've also come to the conclusion that their is a terrible lack of wide rectangular hoops.

The applique I got is about 12.25" wide. I have to move the arms out on my Melco XTS and use the full back hoop and cut a big sheet for it.

I tried to find the widest rectangular hoop I could. I ordered two of the Durkee 12"x6", but you only end up getting a sew field 10.5" wide. I thought the sewn field was going to be 11.5" based on what it said on the Durkee website. I may use that to put words on t-shirts, but a bit small for sweatshirts I think.

I just ordered the 14.24"x11.75" from Melco. It is basically a maximum sew field with the arms in the regular position, so I at least don't have to move arms out. I wish these Durkee ones were 14.25"x6". Why did they have to stop at 12."  

This actually gives me an idea for a whole other business. Getting a 3D Printer and making custom hoops.

There are a hundred different kinds of small hoops, but only two hoops for doing really wide stuff. 14.25"x11.75" and 17.25"x11.75"


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## drdoct (Jul 26, 2011)

I have a 8x13 mighty hoop and it will almost sew a 12. But they have a 12.5x15.75 (probably sews around 14 wide) and a 13x16. I've never tried Stahl's artwork, but I did use one of theirs one time for an applique I did. I made the vector file myself though and sent that to them and did my own stitch files. It saved so much cutting time, but I don't get a lot of duplicate cutting work like that so it was pretty much a 1 and done. But if I did... I would do it again. I would be trying to at a minimum, get half the money for the stitch file refunded or at least a store credit. That's pretty crummy service IMO. 

Have a look into those mighty hoops though. Once you start using them... you'll be hooked. And I realize they're expensive, but worth every single penny.


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