# Heavy embroidery on light tshirt



## designconcepts (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm sorry, another backing question! I'm doing a bunch of tshirts that have a heavy design for the left chest logo -- heavy being an 18K stitch count. Ouch.... To top it off, some of the tshirts are quite light (we usually use Port Auth.'s PC61, but have these few that are a bit lighter).

Picture the logo as being a solid/filled kind of ink splat shape (has writing inside of course). My question is, what backing or backing combo do I need to use for this design? I know the design is intensely heavy, but that's what has to be used (what the customer wants). From briefly researching, I tried using no-show mesh with a layer of tearaway on one, and it was bunched up pretty good. I suspect this is perhaps not enough, but was also afraid cutaway would show too much, 'specially on this thin material.

Appreciate any suggestions!


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

18K stitches on a tshirt is insane. Double the backing with tearaway and that is pretty much it. Collect the money up front after you warn them that it is a bad idea.


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## designconcepts (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks, I'll try the double tearaway with the no-show mesh. Will see how it goes.


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## CheckMate (Jul 5, 2009)

let us know how it turns out!


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

Two things.
One, the thinner the material, the heavier the backing needed to support the embroidery on it.

Two, read this thread.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/embroidery/t117785.html
It deals with a similar subject - heavy design on t-shirt.

hope it helps.

Sorry, third item ... educate customer as to limitations of embroidery process.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

Not to mention as soon as the shirt is washed and dried it will pucker like crazy.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

We're getting ready to do some contract work for a screenprinter who sourced some Anvil 50/50 polos that are lighter than some t-shirts. I think I might try 3-layers of heavy weight cutaway.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

myfinishingtouch said:


> We're getting ready to do some contract work for a screenprinter who sourced some Anvil 50/50 polos that are lighter than some t-shirts. I think I might try 3-layers of heavy weight cutaway.


That sounds like too much backing to me. It will feel like they are wearing a badge on their shirt - stiff and heavy.


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't know what your design looks like, but with that many stitches and the solid fill background you describe, I would be very concerned about creating perforated edges which will ultimately cause the entire design to literally fall out of the shirt. 

I recommend stitching a sample and wash testing it 50 times. If it holds up, great - go for it. If it looks like crap, show the customer the problems & teach them how to redo the design so it is t-shirt appropriate. Applique....outlines instead of solid fill....combination apparel vinyl & stitches....whatever "fixes" the design needs. jmho


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Jane,
I'm hoping it will be stiff. I figure it is better than having it pucker really bad.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Wash testing it 50 times? Have you actually ever washed/dried a test garment 50 times?


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## designconcepts (Jul 30, 2009)

I was concerned about the backing showing through by using cutaway, or appearing "as a badge", but now it looks like I should do that. The PC61's we'll be using are heavier, so that will be better.

I should've looked at the actual .dst file, the "estimated" stitch count in the program was actually 19K, but actual count was almost 17K. I redid the logo, by only reducing density, and brought actual count down to 14K. Much better. When pressed, they look great, but yes, I'm worried about after that first week of wearing/washing.  But anyway, we'll work with the customer on it.

I assume there's a sort of 'fine line' between too short stitches and too long. I *think* default with DRAWings is 3mm. What stitch length do you use, tshirt material, fill stitches?


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

A couple of options you can try as well...

If you have a solid background color, use a piece of pressure-sensitive adhesive backed twill and then stitch the edges down.

Another alternative would be to use a 30wt thread for the background - you can fill quite a bit more area with a much lower density. This doesn't work for some designs because the 30wt can have a courser appearance but it does work for some designs.

Finally, increase the underlay and decrease the top stitch density. It will have the same appearance as a much higher density top layer but it should stay flatter....


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## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

myfinishingtouch said:


> Wash testing it 50 times? Have you actually ever washed/dried a test garment 50 times?


Yes I have, although I doubt it will take that many washings to figure out whether this design on this shirt is a good idea.


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

designconcepts said:


> I assume there's a sort of 'fine line' between too short stitches and too long. I *think* default with DRAWings is 3mm. What stitch length do you use, tshirt material, fill stitches?


The shorter the stitch the more the end result it will curl, cup etc.
Each stitch it pulls a little, shorter stitch more stitches in a row, more pull - not good.
I use 4 - 4.5mm for 95% of my designs.
I only use 3mm, 2mm stitches for underlay.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm with Steve, I would also recommend 4-4.5 mm. I have done what Ted suggested. When a design has a large fill background I've used twill as an applique. It looks very expensive. Don't charge any less if you try this process.


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## designconcepts (Jul 30, 2009)

Thank y'all for the tips. I may be mistaken on the default for stitch length, it may be 4mm after all, I forgot to look today. At any rate I'll see what the design is. I didn't know if too long a stitch would pull in the same way a long satin stitch would, but apparently not.

The shirt colors are not true solid, they are a dark heather gray. I will keep applique in mind for later, but first I need experience with it. 

Thanks again, I will try those suggestions.


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