# Das system arrived



## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

My DAS system arrived today plus decal system. I can't wait to get involved and start rhinestoning!!!'


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## rhinestonetransf (Feb 11, 2009)

Congrats! Good Luck!


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## Boomerbabe (Sep 5, 2009)

You will have fun, April. Congratulations.


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## BlingItOn (May 29, 2008)

Have fun and be patient...each design you make will get easier. Cool website...can't wait to see your designs


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm jealous. Can't wait until I can buy a DAS system.


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## TheDecalWorld (Jan 18, 2009)

Serenity10 said:


> My DAS system arrived today plus decal system. I can't wait to get involved and start rhinestoning!!!'


Awesome serenity! Good luck. You will be addicted! Cool website looking forward to seeing some great designs from you. Have fun and let us know if you have any questions at all. Everyone here is very helpful.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Just curious, can they post it on their website if they customized the artwork while using the program? In other words, start with a template, do some customizing and then it would be unique to themselves.


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## vgary (Mar 31, 2010)

Congratulations April! You are going to have a lot of fun and make some money too! The DAS system is what I have too and I am finding the programs very good, the GCC cutter is great, and the training is awesome. I'll be looking forward to seeing your success!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Louie2010 said:


> Just curious, can they post it on their website if they customized the artwork while using the program? In other words, start with a template, do some customizing and then it would be unique to themselves.


 
YOU will have to be the one to read about this in all of your manuals and licensing agreements.
(read all small print too)

Do not rely on "word of mouth" or what anyone "tells" you.

READ everything for yourself concerning software from any company.
Get proof of exactly what is being "said".

IF someone "tells" you something ASK THEM TO SHOW you exactly where it is written, so your business always will be protected and so that you will always be following the rules.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

ashamutt said:


> YOU will have to be the one to read about this in all of your manuals and licensing agreements.
> (read all small print too)
> 
> Do not rely on "word of mouth" or what anyone "tells" you from any company.
> ...




I don't do do rhinestones myself, was just curious after reading the post.


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

Wow, I am going to have to do some serious reading. I am feeling a bit of regret at this moment considering I plan of having my business mainly internet based. I am hoping that if I customize the image myself I can put them on the website. Man, if only I had known prior to purchase. I think this is something they should tell you prior considering when I spoke with the sales associate to cater a package to my needs and stated that my business would be internet based. I saw a website of a company that is here in Texas near me and it is apparent they must have the DAS system as well and some of the images seem to be the same as what is in the clip art. Some customized but some the same. Grrrr. I'm stuck now.

April


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Serenity10 said:


> Wow, I am going to have to do some serious reading. I am feeling a bit of regret at this moment considering I plan of having my business mainly internet based. I am hoping that if I customize the image myself I can put them on the website. Man, if only I had known prior to purchase. I think this is something they should tell you prior considering when I spoke with the sales associate to cater a package to my needs and stated that my business would be internet based. I saw a website of a company that is here in Texas near me and it is apparent they must have the DAS system as well and some of the images seem to be the same as what is in the clip art. Some customized but some the same. Grrrr. I'm stuck now.
> 
> April


 


April,

Don't freak out.
Just know the "rules". 
Know the licensing word for word - of ANY software/system that you purchase. 

There are people who really like/love das's _products_.
And have used them for many years.

It is totally up to each individual to READ EVERYTHING in the contracts/licensing/manuals of ANY software/system that they purchase.
BUT not only to READ, it is of the utmost importance to UNDERSTAND EXACTLY what those words you are reading actually mean!
If worst comes to worst - and you do not understand - ask a lawyer to explain everything to you.

here are some good reads...

What You Should Know About DAS Smart Designer Licensing agreement
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t97880.html
Read the whole thread.
….and a post I made at the end of it that I really hope gets answered… (knowledge is power)
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t97880-6.html#post740149

Here is a great post by SunnyDayz (in another thread) that touches on the subject.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t125115-2.html#post736963
Specific quote excerpt from sunnydayz in the permalink above 
“_Are their products nice? yes, but you are limited in what you can do with them due to their licensing. You do not own them once you buy them, you only are paying a fee to use them_.”


In the end, if one purchases a software/system, does not read & understand the contracts/licensing/manuals, uses it any way they want and then "gets into trouble"...well, it is their own fault. sad but true.


*How* each company chooses to deal w/ that situation - and the *tactics* they use to rectify it - is another matter entirely!


Hope that helps some.


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

Thanks for all the info guys. I sent an email just for clarification. I must say just from the response I received from one individual there this is dead on. As a total beginner I was specific about my needs and stated that the stocked photos were the winning factor for me and that I would be able to get up and running quickly by adding text to them and putting the on my website. I just wish that it would have been disclosed to me at the time. The licensing info comes in shrink wrapped books that you must open in order to read. I'm sure that I will still love the system but since I am spending a lot of time just trying to figure out where to begin on making my own images etc. It will just take me longer to get my business going. I will await a response from the owner.

April


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## Leg cramps (Feb 9, 2009)

Dont get upset,Im sure you can just buy vector clip art at bestbuy and import it to your program.Or even take the time to search for free clip art on the web to use.


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

I will try that Eric. 

Thanks


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## leapoffaith (Nov 8, 2009)

Can someone please tell me the purpose of buying DAS' art work if you can't actually USE it??

Is it so you can look at it on your computer screen and admire the DAS Art Deparment?

I'm not understanding something.......because this makes no sense at all.

Why would they sell you art work that you can't use? I don't think that's correct.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

Making a copy, for distribution, might be an infringement


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

Sandy,
it says exactly that. You can use it to print, send to customers via a virtual sample etc. But you can not use it on a web site whether it be on a shirt, bag etc. I'm paraphrasing so it not an infringement. I don't mind buying more clipart it's just that I thought I had taken care of that by purchasing this system.


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

I spoke with someone at DAS and everything is good. I was in an unnecessary panic. Now time to get started. I will post some of my first cuts. The good the bad and the ugly!


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Are they going to allow you to post pictures on your site? That is great, I am glad it worked out for you!


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Serenity10 said:


> I spoke with someone at DAS and everything is good. I was in an unnecessary panic. Now time to get started. I will post some of my first cuts. The good the bad and the ugly!


 
Thanks for posting the Good news,, to often only the bad news gets posted,,,,,!!!!!


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

sjidohair said:


> Thanks for posting the Good news,, to often only the bad news gets posted,,,,,!!!!!


 

I would love to know "what" the good news is.....so other das owners can rest assured concerning "das images and their use on websites".


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

What I am proposing to do for my business is ok but since everyone takes there business' in different directions it is probably best if the call and get the info from DAS themselves. I had no problem getting a quick call back and all the help I needed.

April


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Serenity10 said:


> What I am proposing to do for my business is ok but since everyone takes there business' in different directions it is probably best if the call and get the info from DAS themselves. I had no problem getting a quick call back and all the help I needed.
> 
> April


 




Serenity10 said:


> Sandy, it says exactly that. You can use it to print, send to customers via a virtual sample etc...





Serenity10 said:


> *But you can not use it on a web site whether it be on a shirt, bag etc.* I'm paraphrasing so it not an infringement. I don't mind buying more clipart it's just that I thought I had taken care of that by purchasing this system.


 

So, you did get the "das images & website" thing worked out. 
Good 

Can you use them(das’s images/clipart) on your website now?
If so, great! 

I am guessing that the _paraphrasing _statement written by you up above in bold still rings true though.
So, I will guess again that you will not be using any of das’s images on your website.
(maybe you don’t need to, but others might)

I believe that das should just be “out in the open” concerning this policy.
I will always believe this.
I mean, what could it hurt? (except the consumer, down the road)

I believe that every company should be out in the open concerning “images & websites” as well as any other thing that might trip someone up concerning policy infringement/breaking licensing agreements/etc.

At least you got it worked out somehow.
I am happy for you.
Sad for the rest who might not find out until it is too late.

Not everyone will see this thread as it will probably be buried in a few weeks/months, not everyone will know to call das and if they do call they will probably not know what _exact_ questions to ask. 
That’s another reason that das (and other companies) should just be “out in the open” concerning policies like this.
It helps…not hurts.


Of course, maybe das has been out in the open concerning this "images & websites" policy during bling camps, classes, etc. 
(?)
Maybe it's just no one was paying that close attention because of the excitement of _let's get to making some t-shirts!_.
(?)

I guess in the END what rings true is the fact that one should *always* read all licensing, understand it and follow it to a “T”. (no pun intended)


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## leapoffaith (Nov 8, 2009)

April,
I have also had a conversation with DAS regarding the information in this thread, and I am perfectly comfortable about what I am able to do with the art I have purchased from them. 
I got an immediate response and a clear answer. It's all good.
Now, back to your original post -- congrats and good luck!


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

*Thread note:* please note that some posts have been moved out of this thread. It is not appropriate for vendors to make negative comments about a competitors product in threads here. That's a clear conflict of interest and falls under our no self promotion guidelines​


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## Serenity10 (Jul 11, 2010)

Thanks Leap and good luck to you too, I've done a lot of reading and am making some cute design's for myself first of course! Lol


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Serenity10 said:


> Thanks Leap and good luck to you too, I've done a lot of reading and am making some cute design's for myself first of course! Lol


If you guys need any help, just ask,,,,,


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

OK I am still confused. I myself know for fact from owning the DAS templates that the licensing clearly stated you could not put their images on your websites for advertising what you are able to offer. 

Now this statement of I talked to DAS and its all worked out, does not answer the question as to whether they have changed this policy in their license. I never really like when I get answers that dont give a direct answer, as it helps no one. So are you able to put their images on your website? I dont understand why the hidden message, as to what you are being told is allowed.

It really would help others if it was said in plain english. I am going to assume that you cannot put them on your website, since nothing really has been stated that opposes that statement.


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## Louie2010 (Feb 26, 2010)

Maybe it is kind of like the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Louie2010 said:


> Maybe it is kind of like the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.


I have to say that with my experience, it was you don't know till you buy  They don't make the license available to you or tell you, and you cant read it until you receive your products which by that time you have already bought it. That is why I would advice anyone to ask before purchasing what the restrictions are. I found out later after spending my money.


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## ashamutt (Feb 22, 2008)

Serenity10 said:


> Thanks Leap and good luck to you too, I've done a lot of reading and am making some cute design's for myself first of course! Lol


 
Whenever you are ready, please post some of your work. 

I would love to see it.


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## txshirts (Jan 11, 2009)

DAS is simply trying to prevent all of their work from being posted to the internet. It's a bit conservative, but they are up-front about this if you ask.

Besides, posting templates and graphics to your site is boring. You will sell far more product if you take your designs and mock them up on a shirt graphic and post those.

We've had the DAS system for a couple of years and placing stones by shake, brush, and cuss is not my idea of production. It doesn't scale well, but it does do what they say it will.

We used their system for about 90 days before we figured out how to do it on a Laser Engraver. It's not a perfect system and a robot is the only way to scale it well.

Sure you can put 10 people on it, but if you actually do a time study where you time how long it takes to really make 10 copies of a design you will find that the cost is higher than you think. An $8/employee is worth about 25 cents a minute. Yes, that is $8 plus $3 for taxes/benefits and then you are making $3 or 25% on the labor. So if a design takes 5 minutes to make you are spending $1.25 in labor.

Remember, money left over is called profit and it's not a bad thing to build some profit into your labor calculations.

In our case I just find that the shake, brush, cuss (SBC) method works for 90% of the stones and then you have to "deal" with the other 10% which eat up your time.

The GCC cutter is the bomb though and DAS's art books are *very* nice.

The books are designed for a customer to sit down, browse through, and pick a design or concept to use for their projects.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Are you using the Puma III with your Das system or the Expert?
Bengal,, or which one,, 

I agree the designs and artwork from DAS Rock.

Sandy jo


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## txshirts (Jan 11, 2009)

We have a laser engraver... Epilog Helix 75 to be exact... a $35K machine. I found the whole weed, peel, stick process to be aggravating and put it on a shelf. We have the PUMA cutter, and it's great for vinyl. 

We do athletic names and numbers, so we use the cutter for that.

The Epilog we use with 1/4" MDF and find that by doing two passes we can burn holes to the right depth.

I still refer to it as "shake, brush, and cuss" because it isn't perfect and requires tweaking.

However, in reading other people's posts it appears that depth is the key... so I will put a micrometer on the "special foam" and see if I can locate something that is laserable and of the same depth... like plastic sheet.

I'm really looking at the IOLine Crystal Press.... it's a brilliant, simple, cheap solution. At $5900 I can actually afford it without lea$ing and it doesn't have questionable engineering and it doesn't seem overpriced.

I just want to be more efficient, not make product for WalMart. 

As a bonus, CP works with CadLink which we already have in a couple of flavors so I don't have to teach my artist to use it.... or listen to him whine about having a new tool.


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## irish (Dec 13, 2008)

After reading about the licensing issues with DAS, I called because it was a system I wanted to buy. I was told that if you take one of their graphics, just add text and put it on a shirt and put it on your website to be sold, you WILL be asked to remove it. You MUST do modifications to their designs, combine with other designs, change the color, etc for it to be a unique design to be allowed to put the product on your website for sale using their graphics and even then it might be a "grey area" as I was told.

I understand that they are trying to protect their artwork, but they need to do something better for the people that buy their systems.


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## txshirts (Jan 11, 2009)

irish said:


> After reading about the licensing issues with DAS, I called because it was a system I wanted to buy. I was told that if you take one of their graphics, just add text and put it on a shirt and put it on your website to be sold, you WILL be asked to remove it. You MUST do modifications to their designs, combine with other designs, change the color, etc for it to be a unique design to be allowed to put the product on your website for sale using their graphics and even then it might be a "grey area" as I was told.
> 
> I understand that they are trying to protect their artwork, but they need to do something better for the people that buy their systems.


 

Hmm, I'm not really that worried.... what we do sell is the stuff we made ourselves. The stuff that is based on DAS work is what I call "lite-brite" designs and doesn't sell that well, but it's a great concept book.

The challenge is that DAS is paranoid about his stuff. The reality for us at least is that we don't use their "smartdesigns" or their stone-process.

I consider template based motif building to SBC (shake-brush-cuss). It's a great way to get into the business, but it doesn't scale well for me. If I had access to an army of laborers I could probably be convinced to think more of it. But in a country where the workforce is educated and expensive in relation to the product.... it's not an option. 

I consider SBC to be like mowing the yard with scissors and a ruler.... sure you can do it.... I prefer to use my lawnmower.


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## bob emb (Apr 5, 2007)

Hi Guys,

Bob McCormack here, I had the same problem with the owner scott or gregg murtein or whatever his name is. I called him over 20 times and never got a phone call back. I own all there design books but not the rhinestone stuff( I have a CAMMS machine). Eventually after complaining enough I got a call from a Linda who said she was the owners sister. Yes you are not allowed to put any of their art on the net but are free to display it in your store.

YES THEY ARE REALLY PARANOID.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

bob emb said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Bob McCormack here, I had the same problem with the owner scott or gregg murtein or whatever his name is. I called him over 20 times and never got a phone call back. I own all there design books but not the rhinestone stuff( I have a CAMMS machine). Eventually after complaining enough I got a call from a Linda who said she was the owners sister. Yes you are not allowed to put any of their art on the net but are free to display it in your store.
> 
> YES THEY ARE REALLY PARANOID.


I found after purchasing so many of their products and their template packages, that with the limited way you can market them, which is only in person, I really hardly used them at all and found them to be a waste of my money since more of my business was from the web, it ended up being a pretty good loss for me in the end. If you have a storefront only and are selling to people only in person, then they may work well for you, but with today's technology you would lose out in a lot of sales to not be able to display them. So yea for me I hardly used them and that was why I eventually got rid of mine, and for much less then I paid. 

Anyone that is looking to purchase really needs to take into account how you plan to market your business and make sure the licensing of the product allows you to follow that path. Unfortunately for me, it was not until I purchased thousands of dollars of software and templates, that I figured this out. That is another thing, is that the licensing is not made public for you to find this out before purchase, and when I talked to them at the show and all the conversations I had with the sales rep prior to purchase, which was many times over a six month period, it was never brought to my attention by them, even though the rep knew what kind of business model I had. I think they need to be more upfront about the terms of their agreements before selling the products.


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## BML Builder (Jul 8, 2008)

We have their Smart Designer and some of their artwork collections, but we later bought the Action Illustrated collections, and I really like Action Illustrated so much better. We do not do internet sales, but I just don't like DAS attitude, price, or artwork as much. So I have just skipped their booth at shows now. That's just my impression.


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