# Pigment vs dye ink.. Why?



## badalou

I thought I would throw this out again as it is still confusing to a lot of the new folk getting into this business and doing their own transfers. When i was a demo person for Epson printers we would print a picture upon coming into the store. the picture would be from a epson printer that had durabrite ink (Pigment) we would leave it there the 4 hours we did our demos. I would drive the HP rep crazy with this... he begged me not to do it when he was there... I just smiled.. needless to say I sold a lot of printers for best buy when i was there. anyway I did a test a while ago and thought you new guys would like to see the results. Hope this helps answer some questions. Lou


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## gerry

Thats pretty cool Lou, thanks to this forum I picked the right printer w/ the right inks


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## lands tee

Hi Lou
I was wondering what replacement ink you use ? I just tested some pigment ink that would wash off the paper. I tested it against epson durabrite ink, which did not wash off. Thank you for all your help.

Steven


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## Chani

That was one HUGE mistake I made in choosing my Canon i9900. It was $100 cheaper than the "comparable" Epson printer that printed with pigment ink. But at the time I was just starting my video editing business and what I really needed it for was printing DVD labels and cases. I had no idea at the time that I'd eventually be getting into the garment printing business!

The thing is, I had more than enough money back then to buy that Epson, but I knew the Canon name better at the time.

Next time I buy a large format printer it will be an Epson (or Roland Versacamm!)!


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## badalou

lands tee said:


> Hi Lou
> I was wondering what replacement ink you use ? I just tested some pigment ink that would wash off the paper. I tested it against epson durabrite ink, which did not wash off. Thank you for all your help.
> 
> Steven


The actual ink used in theis test was Everlast Pigment ink from Coastal Business. However I have had the same results with Epson Durabrite.


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## badalou

Chani said:


> That was one HUGE mistake I made in choosing my Canon i9900. It was $100 cheaper than the "comparable" Epson printer that printed with pigment ink. But at the time I was just starting my video editing business and what I really needed it for was printing DVD labels and cases. I had no idea at the time that I'd eventually be getting into the garment printing business!
> 
> The thing is, I had more than enough money back then to buy that Epson, but I knew the Canon name better at the time.
> 
> Next time I buy a large format printer it will be an Epson (or Roland Versacamm!)!


Price should never be a factor in buying a printer. But in your case you did not know that you were going to be doing this type of business.


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## mazinger

hey lou.......thank you i hope the guy from hp dont get a heart attack


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## lekx

lou you've just sold me over to going with epson durabrite, i have chosen to go with heat tranxfers and i had just bought sm hp iron on transfers and i was dissapointed a bit even though my friends are impressed that i can print on t-shirts now. i got dissapointed with dye inks because after the first wash the print faded considrable to an un-acceptable level for something you would sell!!!! and on the second wash there was some more colour bleeding which left someparts of the t-shirt with red ink from another part of the print which means im not going with dye inks no more. One piece of advice id like to give to newbies like myself is...ribbed fabrics fo t-shirts are th best for iron on transfers,, the print stays very well i must say that was one pro i liked which made me choose this style of inderect printing as im starting.hope this helps.


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## adawg2252

I knew pigment was always better in the long run, but this just solidifies that.

Thanks!


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## jundogg

thanks lou!

is it really necessary to use pigment ink for heat transfer papers instead of just dye ink? please advise the difference and explanation. thanks


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## tdeals

I'm not an expert on this, but I wanted to give you my opinion based on a demonstration I had with a local company just yesterday. I took a ride to their facility to look at their Stahls' and Geo Knight presses but ended up learning about the heat transfer papers they offer. This company not only sells heat transfer paper (Forever Transfer and their own which are both for Inkjet printers) and heat presses, but also cutters and DTG printers. It's a family owned business and I met them this year at June's Printwear Show in Charlotte.

Having said that......

With what I've read here about using pigment inks vs. dye-based inks, I made sure to ask their opinion on this!!  

The demonstrator advised that if I decide to go inkjet with transfers to stay away from pigment inks and to simply use the OEM inks with the Epson inkjet printers. The demonstrator asked if I've ever had a clogging issue with OEM ink in my inkjet? I told them no, I've never experienced that. 

He said that's correct because inks not made for such printers should not be used in such printers, and that OEM inks print just fine for transfers. Their philosophy is that a person should use what they have as it works perfectly fine and one will avoid the clogging issue when using OEM inks.

The demonstrator printed a picture on their light transfer paper (not self-weeding) and pressed it on 2 Bamboo fabric swatches for me. He also did the same on Forever transfer opaque paper (not self weeding also) on a black swatch. He did not put the transfer paper through a cutter as there was not one ready to use. Therefore, you will notice a border.

He used an Epson Stylus C88 Inkjet printer with OEM Epson inks to do the prints. 

I've attached 4 light transfer pictures - one piece of fabric is natural and the other is a very light green. Two pics are immediately *after pressing* the transfer and the other two are *after washing* this afternoon (picturered left to right). The after wash fabric is still damp. The border is present again because a cutter was not used and these papers are not self-weeding.

There is no bleeding at all of the inks and the color still looks good. Therefore, I can see why this company made the recommendation they did to use OEM ink. 

AB


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## badalou

jundogg said:


> thanks lou!
> 
> is it really necessary to use pigment ink for heat transfer papers instead of just dye ink? please advise the difference and explanation. thanks


I think the pictures do that above. Dye ink is dye.. color in water. Pigment ink is actually small colored particales of plastic gel. these particles melt into the fabric which makes them almost water proof.


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## badalou

AdriaticBlue said:


> I'm not an expert on this, but I wanted to give you my opinion based on a demonstration I had with a local company just yesterday. I took a ride to their facility to look at their Stahls' and Geo Knight presses but ended up learning about the heat transfer papers they offer. This company not only sells heat transfer paper (Forever Transfer and their own which are both for Inkjet printers) and heat presses, but also cutters and DTG printers. It's a family owned business and I met them this year at June's Printwear Show in Charlotte.
> 
> Having said that......
> 
> With what I've read here about using pigment inks vs. dye-based inks, I made sure to ask their opinion on this!!
> 
> The demonstrator advised that if I decide to go inkjet with transfers to stay away from pigment inks and to simply use the OEM inks with the Epson inkjet printers. The demonstrator asked if I've ever had a clogging issue with OEM ink in my inkjet? I told them no, I've never experienced that.
> 
> He said that's correct because inks not made for such printers should not be used in such printers, and that OEM inks print just fine for transfers. Their philosophy is that a person should use what they have as it works perfectly fine and one will avoid the clogging issue when using OEM inks.
> 
> The demonstrator printed a picture on their light transfer paper (not self-weeding) and pressed it on 2 Bamboo fabric swatches for me. He also did the same on Forever transfer opaque paper (not self weeding also) on a black swatch. He did not put the transfer paper through a cutter as there was not one ready to use. Therefore, you will notice a border.
> 
> He used an Epson Stylus C88 Inkjet printer with OEM Epson inks to do the prints.
> 
> I've attached 4 light transfer pictures - one piece of fabric is natural and the other is a very light green. Two pics are immediately *after pressing* the transfer and the other two are *after washing* this afternoon (picturered left to right). The after wash fabric is still damp. The border is present again because a cutter was not used and these papers are not self-weeding.
> 
> There is no bleeding at all of the inks and the color still looks good. Therefore, I can see why this company made the recommendation they did to use OEM ink.
> 
> AB


as an ex demo rep for epson and to hear some one say not to use pigment ink and use OEM ink and epson then there is a contridiction because epson inks are pigment inks. Sure I also recommend using epson. But A lot of the CIS systems and inks sold are pigmented inks and I know from my experence having now done over 2000 prints with my cis system and never had a problem. Now that said. Buyer beware. There are inks sold on auction sites that i would be very careful in using. In this business if you only used Epson OEM cartridges you will be exposing yourself to high cost. Especially if you do any production at all. It may be fine for some of you that might do a few here and a few there. But if I had to knock out 100 transfers I am going with my CIS. Lou


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## tdeals

badalou said:


> as an ex demo rep for epson and to hear some one say not to use pigment ink and use OEM ink and epson then there is a contridiction because epson inks are pigment inks. Sure I also recommend using epson. But A lot of the CIS systems and inks sold are pigmented inks and I know from my experence having now done over 2000 prints with my cis system and never had a problem. Now that said. Buyer beware. There are inks sold on auction sites that i would be very careful in using. In this business if you only used Epson OEM cartridges you will be exposing yourself to high cost. Especially if you do any production at all. It may be fine for some of you that might do a few here and a few there. But if I had to knock out 100 transfers I am going with my CIS. Lou


Thanks for the additional info Badalou! That brings about 2 questions for me given what you've shared. 

1. What is causing some users with Epson inkjet printers to experience clogging issues and deciding to move to laser printers when you are not having this issue? 

2. Would you know the cost comparison with a CIS (Continuous Ink System) using pigment inks for an inkjet printer vs. using toner for a laser printer? Is toner still less expensive overall per print?

I've called Epson directly to gain information for my knowledge about what models use dye-based inks and what models use pigment-based inks. 

Epson advised, as you've stated, that the Epson Stylus C88 used to print the pictured samples use a Pigment-based ink. A printer such as the Epson Stylus Color Photo R380 uses a Dye-based ink. 

I will have the ask the company I visited what specifically they suggest users avoid when it comes to ink. I just know they were dead set on using OEM Epson inks that come with the printer and not any other inks. 

AB


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## charles95405

Ms Blue... I will jump in ahead of Lou ...Since I have both ink jets w/CIS and inkjets with just carts. I have a c88+ with ChromaBlast which I never use any more.I also have an Oki 5800 that I use with DuraCotton and I also have Konica Minolta that I just started trying color laser sublimation.

I don't know why the company you are dealing with is again Epson OEM ink..maybe they are selling CIS with pigment ink..But I can say from my stand point I would not use anything but pigment ink for the normal transfers with inkjets (I think HP has a model out that use what they call Vivera - which is pigment ink). The dye based ink will wash out more than I will accept for commercial use.

Inkjet with CIS is probably close to a toner base system...but again that would depend on the size of the bags of the CIS and the size of the toner cart used. I think that over all the toner will cost less in the long run. Or so it seems to me. But I have to say I have not measured it. If you use a laser system, I think you have fewer choices in the type of paper you use...an example...the new paper Lou has in his video will not work with laser.. So I think one needs to decide what is going to be the market for you and then choose the printer that matches that..


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## tdeals

charles95405 said:


> Ms Blue... I will jump in ahead of Lou ...Since I have both ink jets w/CIS and inkjets with just carts. I have a c88+ with ChromaBlast which I never use any more.I also have an Oki 5800 that I use with DuraCotton and I also have Konica Minolta that I just started trying color laser sublimation.
> 
> I don't know why the company you are dealing with is again Epson OEM ink..maybe they are selling CIS with pigment ink..But I can say from my stand point I would not use anything but pigment ink for the normal transfers with inkjets (I think HP has a model out that use what they call Vivera - which is pigment ink). The dye based ink will wash out more than I will accept for commercial use.
> 
> Inkjet with CIS is probably close to a toner base system...but again that would depend on the size of the bags of the CIS and the size of the toner cart used. I think that over all the toner will cost less in the long run. Or so it seems to me. But I have to say I have not measured it. If you use a laser system, I think you have fewer choices in the type of paper you use...an example...the new paper Lou has in his video will not work with laser.. So I think one needs to decide what is going to be the market for you and then choose the printer that matches that..


Hi Charles and thanks for your input too! 

I think you misread my prior post. The company I visited actually are very much for using OEM Epson inks and are against using non-OEM inks. It's the non-OEM inks that they feel may cause clogging issues. 

AB


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## badalou

AdriaticBlue said:


> Thanks for the additional info Badalou! That brings about 2 questions for me given what you've shared.
> 
> 1. What is causing some users with Epson inkjet printers to experience clogging issues and deciding to move to laser printers when you are not having this issue?
> 
> 2. Would you know the cost comparison with a CIS (Continuous Ink System) using pigment inks for an inkjet printer vs. using toner for a laser printer? Is toner still less expensive overall per print?
> 
> I've called Epson directly to gain information for my knowledge about what models use dye-based inks and what models use pigment-based inks.
> 
> Epson advised, as you've stated, that the Epson Stylus C88 used to print the pictured samples use a Pigment-based ink. A printer such as the Epson Stylus Color Photo R380 uses a Dye-based ink.
> 
> I will have the ask the company I visited what specifically they suggest users avoid when it comes to ink. I just know they were dead set on using OEM Epson inks that come with the printer and not any other inks.
> 
> AB


I would have answered sooner but I lost power for the last 7 hours. The fact that people switch to laser is not because they had problems with epson. it is because they did not do the right thing in the first place. clogging is not an epson issue. it is a printer issue. CIS system first of all must be used at least daily. Humidity can cause this issue and lack of use. The ink dries in the heads and tubes. Cheap inks not formulated correctly can cause the problem as well. Print heads are built onto the printer and not the cartridge as with HP. Printer are not designed for transfers. That is just how they are used by us. I know Epson will tell customers that if you are not using their paper you will have a problem.. BULL. And i know that is what they are instructed to do. So calling them will not get you the answer you want.. Dye ink is what photographer like because of color saturation. Pigment inks tend to dry darker. so it is why they exist. However people want prints to last forever unlike the old days when I was a kid and the black and white prints are now yellow. So pigment inks are great for longevity.


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## badalou

AdriaticBlue said:


> Hi Charles and thanks for your input too!
> 
> I think you misread my prior post. The company I visited actually are very much for using OEM Epson inks and are against using non-OEM inks. It's the non-OEM inks that they feel may cause clogging issues.
> 
> AB


and they may be right,, but which inks are they against. WHOS?. Ihave never had a clofgging problem with everlast. i also know that I need to make prints to keep heads clear.


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## Buechee

Y ou told me this a year ago, but this was good for those that did not know. I like the pictures. Thanks Lou.


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## tdeals

Thanks for your feedback Lou. 

So do you think that people using a good CIS would avoid clogging altogether? I guess the more I read about people's CIS experience, whether using a good product or eBay product, I still read that clogging is an issue. It also seems that a CIS needs a lot of pampering to keep it running smoothly and efficiently.

Now that I think about it, that's probably why I didn't like DTG because of bulk ink system and the cost of the printer. As well, I walked up to a DTG demo printer at Printwear this past June, put the palm of my smack dab in the middle of a shirt on the printer and I came up with a wet hand of a dolphin print!!! I didn't know it hadn't dried yet. 

AB


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## badalou

AdriaticBlue said:


> Thanks for your feedback Lou.
> 
> So do you think that people using a good CIS would avoid clogging altogether? I guess the more I read about people's CIS experience, whether using a good product or eBay product, I still read that clogging is an issue. It also seems that a CIS needs a lot of pampering to keep it running smoothly and efficiently.
> 
> Now that I think about it, that's probably why I didn't like DTG because of bulk ink system and the cost of the printer. As well, I walked up to a DTG demo printer at Printwear this past June, put the palm of my smack dab in the middle of a shirt on the printer and I came up with a wet hand of a dolphin print!!! I didn't know it hadn't dried yet.
> 
> AB


Pampering yes.. but cost savings is tremendous over cartridges.


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## CuttingEdge

Well I learned the hard way about head clogging as I've got a CX6600 setting here that never used anything but OEM cartridges up to the day it stopped (clogged). I see solution sold on the net that could would and maybe should clean a head not to badly plugged if allowed to 'soak'. This stuff sells for $10 so it can't be that complex, anybody know what it is and does it occasionally work. Don't mean to hijack....this thread was close to what I was gonna post and figured it might tie in.


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## jc2011

I am so happy I came upon this site!!! After one horrible print job I decided to step back and take some time to figure out this business a little more. I'm glad I did! I have been using dye ink and now I'm going to look for a quality printer that accepts pigment ink!


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## discmann

Chani said:


> That was one HUGE mistake I made in choosing my Canon i9900. It was $100 cheaper than the "comparable" Epson printer that printed with pigment ink. But at the time I was just starting my video editing business and what I really needed it for was printing DVD labels and cases. I had no idea at the time that I'd eventually be getting into the garment printing business!
> 
> The thing is, I had more than enough money back then to buy that Epson, but I knew the Canon name better at the time.
> 
> Next time I buy a large format printer it will be an Epson (or Roland Versacamm!)!


buy a roland versa-camm, i own one and i am very much satisfied. king of plotters-cutters!!
i owned an hm-1 but i sold it and i am myself again. what a pain that cursed machine was for me. nothing but a problematic thief. i read here in this forum about problems other people have with it and i feel a little bit happier to have sold it. i hope the guy who has it now to be able to face its trouble. 
best
discmann


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## carpov

Good morning/afternoon Shirtmates,

I purchased heat press package from Graficad last Feb 15. And I observed that their pigment inks CYMK were dull for almost all color reproduction. Due to my curiosity I tried my other printer (CX2900) with CIS from Saveinks. From my CIS printer, I obtained better color images.

Points to ponder:

1. Is it true that pigment inks have color fading effect? If yes, can you give me some insights to compensate that using PC softwares like photoshop?

2. Is it ok for me to proceed printing using my CIS from saveinks which I don't know the specs. Note that my CX2900 with CIS is used on my internet cafe biz; just for documents.

Thank you in advance


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## BandM

I have been reading a lot of post on this forum for a while now and have only put 2 replies up I think, but any way I saw Lou's test the other night and freaked out! Now keep in mind I am a Newbie to all of this, but what I did was print a transfer 8 1/2 x 11 mostly black in color with some yellow and silver, anyway I washed and dried the shirt 5 times and honestly it looks just fine. I printed it on a Epson SP1400 with Ciss that I purchased from a company I will leave nameless but it has dye ink. Now believe me, I am not trying to say anybody is wrong I'm just giving my experience and my humble opinion. To be honest when I washed it the first time I expected it to look 2 years old but I honestly saw no difference from when it was first pressed. Well thats my 2 cents worth.


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## prometheus

BandM said:


> I have been reading a lot of post on this forum for a while now and have only put 2 replies up I think, but any way I saw Lou's test the other night and freaked out! Now keep in mind I am a Newbie to all of this, but what I did was print a transfer 8 1/2 x 11 mostly black in color with some yellow and silver, anyway I washed and dried the shirt 5 times and honestly it looks just fine. I printed it on a Epson SP1400 with Ciss that I purchased from a company I will leave nameless but it has dye ink. Now believe me, I am not trying to say anybody is wrong I'm just giving my experience and my humble opinion. To be honest when I washed it the first time I expected it to look 2 years old but I honestly saw no difference from when it was first pressed. Well thats my 2 cents worth.


Some people here have gotten good results with dye. What paper did you use?


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## BandM

It was Alpha Double Red.


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## Girlzndollz

Brad, 

Does your printer use Claria dye ink. It is said to be "water resistant" by Epson. I have been told that dye is dye and will fade. I also heard from someone that used Claria it washed badly and faded. I have heard from two other people, you are now the third, that Claria is washing well. One person used Jetpro, the other Conde, and now you used Alpha double red.

In the name of curiousity, I have printed on Jetpro with Canon OEM dye ink. We are looking at the fact that maybe Jetpro can take any ink. The shirt washed perfectly on wash one and is in the dryer. 

Will you please consider posting your results in a thread we have going for inkjet users where we are testing papers and inks? Here is a link if you wouldn't mind.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39332.html#post231195

I am thinking it could be Jetpro, as well, maybe Claria might test well. So far the other users are on as many washes as you are. 

Thank you Brad.


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## BandM

I will try and post the pictures maybe later today. I am way to busy to do it right now. Sorry. As for the ink I am actually using a 3rd party ink in a CISS but it is a dye ink. Gota go for now, I will return.


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## Girlzndollz

My post with my first wash test with Canon OEM ink and Jetpro is over there now:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39332-11.html#post244802


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## BandM

They look nice I think, in my opinion I can't tell which is the one that was washed. These look similiar to my results.


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## Girlzndollz

BandM, why haven't you asked me why I called you Brad? I am sorry for that! I read your name quickly, and it just read "BradM" to me. Okay, no harm, no foul, haha, at least I think you knew I meant you. Maybe b/c cause I do like the Band Brad. 

Pitures of shirt: Thanks, I though the looked the same, too. I love when it starts getting interesting.
Dye, maybe, huda figured? Well see how it goes.


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## BandM

Goes to show how on top of things I am right now, I didn't even notice the Brad. As for the dye ink I was going to switch to pigment ink but I'm going to stay with dye at least until I have a complaint or see a problem. One other thing is when my shirt was washed the first time I forgot to turn it inside out like they recommend. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that actually helps the case that the dye ink can hold up. But I AM A ROOKIE so take my opinion with that in mind.


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## ivancuriel

Girlzndollz said:


> My post with my first wash test with Canon OEM ink and Jetpro is over there now:
> 
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t39332-11.html#post244802




I have also updated my wash testing on this thread aswell. So everyone can go check that out.


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## BandM

Sorry folks but I can't get my pictures to upload I keep getting an error saying the file size is to big. I'll try again later when I have more time.


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## Chani

Do you have Photoshop?

Or did your camer come with a program to adjust your photos? (a lot of them do)

You'd need to change the size of your images, and possibly the compression (quality) for jpg's.

I look forward to seeing them!


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## the.one

So, I've decided on purchasing some pigment based ink. I went to Coastal Business to do some price comparison shopping and noticed that they have two options: 4 bottles or 6 bottles of ink. The only difference being the light cyan and the light magenta. 

Are these necessary? If so, what sort of detail are we talking about? Is it for lighting colors up or just offering more shades of colors?


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## prometheus

the.one said:


> So, I've decided on purchasing some pigment based ink. I went to Coastal Business to do some price comparison shopping and noticed that they have two options: 4 bottles or 6 bottles of ink. The only difference being the light cyan and the light magenta.
> 
> Are these necessary? If so, what sort of detail are we talking about? Is it for lighting colors up or just offering more shades of colors?


It's based on whether your printer uses on 4 inks or 6. Most printers use 4 inks - C,M,Y,K. Then there are some that use 6 - C,CL,M,ML,Y,K.


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## the.one

prometheus said:


> It's based on whether your printer uses on 4 inks or 6. Most printers use 4 inks - C,M,Y,K. Then there are some that use 6 - C,CL,M,ML,Y,K.


Good info, Prometheus. Thanks!


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## abalha

Forgive me if this is a stupid question..
Is there any difference between Pigment ink and Pigmented Sublimation Ink???
I saw in a store the Pigmented Sublimation Ink more expensive 

and I was confused.

Sorry for my bad english.

Best Regards,
Paula


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## Cjoe Design

Sublimation ink is different. can only be transfered onto 100% Polyester. Thats the bad news. The good news is you can also do mugs, tiles and hundreds of other items that have are sublimation ready. The sublimation process also only really works on light colored shirts.

I love sublimation but it could never be my only process due to the expense. I recommend having inkjet transfers or vinyl transfers that can be used on cotton so you can meet more customers price range.

I sell my sublimation shirts for 18-20 dollars but I can sell my inkjet or vinyl tees for $8.00 - $15.00


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## abalha

Thanks. But my doubt was if there is two kinds of pigmented ink in the market...one normal...and another special for sublimation


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## MotoskinGraphix

abalha said:


> Thanks. But my doubt was if there is two kinds of pigmented ink in the market...one normal...and another special for sublimation


Inkjet ink and sublimation ink are two different monkeys. Two different inks completely and it doesnt matter if they say pigment or not.


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## JonasJodie

Hi guys, 

I'm new to this forum and just trying to set up a shirt printing biz. The questions and answers in this thread are SO useful to me. Thank you all very much!


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## xtreme t

As you seem to be a person with no affiliations to Epson, can you give me some direction. I have an Epson Stylus photo R2400 and was wondering can I get a CIS unit to fit it and use pigment(durbrite) inks. If you can be of some help it would be great. Also do youknow what printer would be best to use with sublimation ink, and should I use a CIS unit or because I won't be do multiple prints regularly should I just use the cartridges.


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## BandM

I would recommend going to this link: .:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began 
they seem to have about the best price for bulk ink systems. I'm not sure if they have 1 for your printer but you can search their site & find out. As for a sublimation printer again I would check it out at the same link. You could go with an Epson c88+ or I think they have 1 cheaper then that even. When you look on the site you will see printer packages available with the different types of ink & you will want the "high temperature" ink for sublimation. As for going with cartridges or bulk I'm not sure what to say, if you don't think you will use it a whole lot you may not want to invest in a bulk unit. As for the models all I have used for sub is the c88+ so I really can not speak for any other model.
These are just my humble opinions but I hope I have helped you out some & NO I have no affiliation with Epson, but if they want to cut me a check as a spokesmen I'll take it.
B&M


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## denise817

Are pigmented inks available for a canon ip4820 printer? I'm afraid using anything other than the OEM inks will clog the heads (that happened on my Epson 2 yrs ago and it was beyond repair - hence the Canon). Your thoughts?

Also what dpi should I be printing at on heat transfer paper? 300, 200, 100 ? I'm thinking maybe my ink bleeding issue may be due to too much saturation.

Thanks


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## Bmorris

Hi i was just wondering what type of dye do the epson3800 use? and the epson art. 1400?


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## daily linen

Hi folks
I am a very new to this.
Can I use pigment ink with Epson C88 to make heat transfers with heat press on to T shirts? What kind of paper I should use and where shall I get them?
thanks


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## charles95405

daily linen....I responded to your PM....incidentally this thread was started almost 6 years ago and the info may be outdated.


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## JoJmoto

charles95405 said:


> daily linen....I responded to your PM....incidentally this thread was started almost 6 years ago and the info may be outdated.


 
This thread caught my eye as I am about to purchase a printer too. I did notice the date of the thread and this sent me to wondering if this information still applied or is there new technology that has came into play since then...?


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## charles95405

the C88 used pigment ink and was used by many to make transfers... many used JPSS papers.I am not sure the C88 is still in production


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## mgparrish

JoJmoto said:


> This thread caught my eye as I am about to purchase a printer too. I did notice the date of the thread and this sent me to wondering if this information still applied or is there new technology that has came into play since then...?


The printer models may be outdated in this thread but chemistry and physics law don't change with time.

Use pigment inks. All 4 color Epsons use pigment inks and 3rd party inks are readlily available and at cheaper prices. 

The pigment inks I use are from Cobra and they are good for both photo printing and tshirt transfer. The Cobra pigment inks won't color shift when heat pressed like Epson pigment do and about 1/5 of the cost. They cover all the recent Epson models. Suggest for tshirts just keep with 4 colors.

.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began


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## shirtsforsheep

i apologize, know i'm a few years behind, and if you're still around; the work looks great. BUT, you said you used 50/50 POLY - dyes meld w/ poly like sublimation transfers. Have you done dye ink transfers on 100 Cotton and achieved the same results? thank you much.


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## mgparrish

shirtsforsheep said:


> i apologize, know i'm a few years behind, and if you're still around; the work looks great. BUT, you said you used 50/50 POLY - dyes meld w/ poly like sublimation transfers. Have you done dye ink transfers on 100 Cotton and achieved the same results? thank you much.


Dye inks that are used in inkjet printers are not the same as sublimation dye inks used in inkjet printers.


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## Casper13

sorry to post on an old thread (new member) i need help deciding what ink is going to be best for an epson 202 using a ciss ink system. im going to be doing tshirts etc and onto metal but im soo confused what ink i should use. any help would be great. thank u


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## mgparrish

Casper13 said:


> sorry to post on an old thread (new member) i need help deciding what ink is going to be best for an epson 202 using a ciss ink system. im going to be doing tshirts etc and onto metal but im soo confused what ink i should use. any help would be great. thank u


Pigment inks. If you don't want color shift when heat pressing then use Cobra pigment inks or other heat transfer inks. Dyes fade and bleed.


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## Casper13

mgparrish said:


> Pigment inks. If you don't want color shift when heat pressing then use Cobra pigment inks or other heat transfer inks. Dyes fade and bleed.


so what are sublimation inks for? metal, mugs and phone cases etc? thanks again


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## charles95405

in general sublimation inks are used for transfers to white/ light 100 percent polyester garments or polymer coated hard surfaces such as mugs, tiles etc. you must use sublimation paper and press the item with an appropriate heat press for a recommended time and pressure


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## videorov

badalou said:


> I thought I would throw this out again as it is still confusing to a lot of the new folk getting into this business and doing their own transfers. When i was a demo person for Epson printers we would print a picture upon coming into the store. the picture would be from a epson printer that had durabrite ink (Pigment) we would leave it there the 4 hours we did our demos. I would drive the HP rep crazy with this... he begged me not to do it when he was there... I just smiled.. needless to say I sold a lot of printers for best buy when i was there. anyway I did a test a while ago and thought you new guys would like to see the results. Hope this helps answer some questions. Lou


Yes I see but put a clearcoat of Krylon on the print before
you apply the heatpress to the transfer onto shirt then
put water on it and you will see diffrent result


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## videorov

You need to buy a Silhouette Cameo cutter to cut around the edge of your image
so you don't have that border effect I see in the image. The Cameos are cheap
and can do contour cuts easy.


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## charles95405

Just remember this thread started 7 years ago. Some technology has changed, but pigment ink is still best for inkjet transfers on white or light pastel


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## mgparrish

charles95405 said:


> Just remember this thread started 7 years ago. Some technology has changed, but pigment ink is still best for inkjet transfers on white or light pastel



Adding also to your comments, with pigment inks and good transfer paper then the clear overcoat being discussed is not necessary.


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## Tudorwest

Hi Lou,thanks for your guide on pigment inks,can you tell me which printers will use pigment please,I have a hp photosmart 8100 and a brother 970 or do I need a Epson?,thanks Tudor


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## Powerboss

Can someone please clarify a question about ink

I want to do transfers on 50 / 50 cotton polyester T shirts
I also want to do transfers on 100% polyester (Dry fit shirts)

I am getting the epson 1430. 

Do I use the same sublimation ink for both types of shirts?


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