# Trouble with bright color ("hot" colors)



## Mdrake (Aug 2, 2013)

Just recently, I got an image from a customer that wanted it printed on an iPhone case. I printed it and sublimated it, but the color was WAY off. The original image was sort of a "hot pink" color and when I sublimated it, it lost a lot of saturation and looked pretty much like a faded pink. It's the first time I tried an image with a color like this. I noticed that it happens with bright green as well.

I tried this with cheap Chinese, Dynasub, and Chromaluxe plates. All the same result.

I use Cobra Inks and their profiles. None of their profiles give me the correct result. Contacting them is my last resort. They're response has always been, "it works fine for us."


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

Professional colors all come down to ink and ICC profiles. In my opinion if you are doing dye sub you are going for the higher end of the market which requires great colors. Getting cheap ink with so so profiles defeats the entire purpose. 

How many times have there been post about how Cobra produces good colors with the word "except" inserted? 

Bright colors is the rage this year and you can get really close to neon like results with a professional ink and profiles.

Before I ever would even consider changing ink suppliers I would ask for sample print of red, black, black to white gradient, hot pink, bright lime, bright orange. These are typically the colors that could be difficult for vendors to hit. If they can hit these colors you are pretty much assured of professional results on-going.


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## Mdrake (Aug 2, 2013)

Prescott Press...are you able to successfully get these neon type colors? I came across another forum earlier where someone had the same complaint and it looked like most responses said that it's unlikely you can get a hot pink with sublimation ink. 

I honestly think Cobra's problem is their profiles. I tried their "aluminum plate" profile and the blacks were a dark gray with a tint of green. So then I ended up using their "polyester fabric" profile instead which gets a better black (although it's more like a dark, dark red it which isn't noticeable for 99% of the people that have looked at it during testing).

I agree that I need to look at other vendors, but I was hoping someone has an answer to this problem besides changing inks.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

We can get very very close to neon with orange, pink and green. 

To be honest I never had really understood all these multiple profiles for the same ink. We have used one profile for 4+ years, never touched it and have printed on multiple fabrics, license plates, FRP, etc etc. 

If you look back on all the hours people must have spent assisting and trying to get Cobra inks to work it has to be in the hundreds upon hundreds of hours wasted and that is just on this forum. An ICC profile from an ink vendor should be 100% plug and play. As I stated we installed our profile, loaded the ink and have never touched it regardless of what substrate we are printing on.

Not a professional color person by any means but if you are using different profiles that result in totally different colors that right there says something is very wrong. Our colors shift zero from substrate to substrate.

Comes down to are you really saving money on cheap ink if you spend countless hours trying to get professional results?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> We can get very very close to neon with orange, pink and green.
> 
> To be honest I never had really understood all these multiple profiles for the same ink. We have used one profile for 4+ years, never touched it and have printed on multiple fabrics, license plates, FRP, etc etc.
> 
> ...


I agree on the question of multiple profiles. 

However the profile installation is no more difficult than any other ICC profile, it's plug and play, I can point to just as many posts using SG (Ricoh and Epson), Artanium color issues. 

It all comes down to understanding color management and understanding the limitation of a < $200 printer designed for something else and how to work around that.

For every person having issues there are 10 that don't with these inks or anybody's inks. But people don't make it to the forum just to start a thread on how good things work for them, they post when they have issues.

I know this from _actually_ using the inks and _actually_ helping _many_ others achieve professional results with these inks.

I think you just have a problem with Cobra *RIDERZ READY* and just looking to troll as all your posts from your previous life would indicate?


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

Speaking of trolling! 

First, I use Cobra ink just not their dye sub ink thus your comment about having it out for Cobra is just plain silly and nothing more than combative like every post that does not agree with you. Have you ever just thought maybe people actually know more than you on certain topics? Your "everyone is wrong that disagrees with me" attitude is old and tiresome.

A profile should not need a user to understand a single thing about color management. That is for techno nerds. A profile and ink is not plug and play if you need to dive into the profile. Plug and play is installing the profile and printing - period. If you believe otherwise it is simply because you have not used a professional ink and profile. As I stated I know absolutely zero about color management - that is plug and play. 

Have you yourself not mentioned before less than professional results with Cobra ink?

If you take the overall number of Sawgrass ink users versus Cobra ink users I would guess it is 1,000+ to 1 ratio thus the number of post with color issues should reflect the same ratio yet I would say that the ratio of Cobra color issue posts far exceed Sawgrass color issue posts. Maybe it is because the Sawgrass color issues are resolved by vendors thus no need to post them here - who knows.

I have zero interest in continuing a thread where you will continue to be combative for zero reason other than people disagreeing with you.

If the OP would like to PM me I am available.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Mdrake said:


> Just recently, I got an image from a customer that wanted it printed on an iPhone case. I printed it and sublimated it, but the color was WAY off. The original image was sort of a "hot pink" color and when I sublimated it, it lost a lot of saturation and looked pretty much like a faded pink. It's the first time I tried an image with a color like this. I noticed that it happens with bright green as well.
> 
> I tried this with cheap Chinese, Dynasub, and Chromaluxe plates. All the same result.
> 
> I use Cobra Inks and their profiles. None of their profiles give me the correct result. Contacting them is my last resort. They're response has always been, "it works fine for us."


You can see my spot colors in the attached. Post your screens shots from your graphic app and printer driver. And you need to post what your paper is.

You need to first transfer to poly fabric to see how your profile and graphic settings are performing and if you are setup correctly.

Poly is the simplest material to try, 60 seconds 390 - 400 degs can't goof it hardly. If your inks work on poly you should be able to do anything that can be sublimated.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Speaking of trolling!
> 
> First, I use Cobra ink just not their dye sub ink thus your comment about having it out for Cobra is just plain silly and nothing more than combative like every post that does not agree with you. Have you ever just thought maybe people actually know more than you on certain topics? Your "everyone is wrong that disagrees with me" attitude is old and tiresome.
> 
> ...



RIDERZ READY. You are not using Cobra sub inks ... Pigment inks or regular dye inks do not equal sublimation inks.

If you are so knowledgeable about Cobra sublimation why don't you post online so others might learn?


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

In closing this thread - for those that missed it MGParrish had to quickly edit his original post marked up in red above when it was pointed out how many errors it included.

There is no reason to attack simply when not agreeing. Life is short be happy.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> In closing this thread - for those that missed it MGParrish had to quickly edit his original post marked up in red above when it was pointed out how many errors it included.
> 
> There is no reason to attack simply when not agreeing. Life is short be happy.


Subject is OP color issues, RIDERZ READY

Bashing the vendor won't help the OP.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Here is a tile with Cobra inks. Not a glamour shot by any means as I didn't set up in diffused light, but you can see the color "pop" real well here. Been scratched up a bit but it shows the color capability.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

We make our own ICC profiles for different substrates, as the colour of the substrate, does affect the colour of the final print. Some of the fabrics we print to aren't as pure white as a Chromaluxe panel for instance, and we use less resolution in the print settings for fabric work, so this also affects the final colour too.
This gives us the best results, but does take time. We're using InkTec's Sublinova inks, so I can't speak of Cobra and their profiles, InkTec have profiles to download but not for the printer model we chose to use, but even if they did, we'e going to get more accuracy with bespoke profiles for our printer, rather than a generic ink manufacturer supplied one.


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## Mdrake (Aug 2, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> You can see my spot colors in the attached. Post your screens shots from your graphic app and printer driver. And you need to post what your paper is.
> 
> You need to first transfer to poly fabric to see how your profile and graphic settings are performing and if you are setup correctly.
> 
> Poly is the simplest material to try, 60 seconds 390 - 400 degs can't goof it hardly. If your inks work on poly you should be able to do anything that can be sublimated.


I use Image Right and Dye Trans paper. I want to mention that one issue that I've had from day one was using Cobra's recommended printer settings. There's NO WAY I can use "Bright White Paper" for the paper type. When I choose that, the colors are completely off. Blacks are gray (and green), Reds are pink, and so on. I've tried on different aluminum plates and on high quality poly fabric. I've talked to Richard about this but he says he doesn't have this problem so the support ends there.

Attached are the screen shots of my settings. I also attached the color that I can't get printed correctly if you want to give it a try.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

pisquee said:


> We make our own ICC profiles for different substrates, as the colour of the substrate, does affect the colour of the final print. Some of the fabrics we print to aren't as pure white as a Chromaluxe panel for instance, and we use less resolution in the print settings for fabric work, so this also affects the final colour too.
> This gives us the best results, but does take time. We're using InkTec's Sublinova inks, so I can't speak of Cobra and their profiles, InkTec have profiles to download but not for the printer model we chose to use, but even if they did, we'e going to get more accuracy with bespoke profiles for our printer, rather than a generic ink manufacturer supplied one.


Yes. You are describing a more ideal situation in your case.

What Cobra supplies for download, work reasonably for the _specific_ substrates, paper, quality (res) and paper type settings they refer to.

But they are generic in the since that the targets were taken from a specific printer used at Cobra, not the specific printer the end user has, unless one goes the "custom" route which Cobra also offers. 

In my case I use a specific "generic" profile that I have tested and use based on best overall color accuracy on a bright white poly fabric. 

But at that point I'm not using it generically. I have a wide variety of substrates that vary in gloss and "whiteness" as you speak of. 

The "generic" profiles that are available for download simply won't cover the wide range of my substrates, so short of having a dozen substrate unique profiles made ($$$) I use one profile then automate the image adjustments necessary to make up for the differences in "whiteness" and gloss. 

To your point, if you take a fabric like mousepad fabric then transfer to it .... very few mousepads are a "white white". The net effect is that since it is not a pure white it really has some small amount of gray to it. To some degree you can compensate, but in reality there is no way to get very light colors to be highly accurate with a hint of gray in the background. Very light greens may appear a bit light olive, very light yellows may have a bit of light brown etc. 

These substrates you can work around a little by bumping Gamma or Saturation, but then your overall colors would be compressed. 

The tile I posted previously is a Bison tile. It is a very pure white tile and very glossy. It is unique compared to most tiles out there. 

If I take my generic profile and just "plug and play" print to those tiles then flesh tones look very saturated even gory actually. The same profile used "plug and play" works much better on most other vendors tiles and typical substrates. 

I have other substrates like back printed glass tiles with white backs that things must be turned up, like mousepads do, then some that have to be turned down. For some items colors would be too hot ... this would be Bison tiles and high gloss puzzles I have. So I could get equipment and DIY custom profiles or just use one profile and then automate my settings per the substrate.

In any case nothing is "plug and play" 100% from an ink vendor if you use a wide variety of substrates and have a higher expectation of perfection.

The idea _some_ are spouting that color management should be "plug and play" is absurd. 

You can make it more plug and plug and play, but as you mention it takes time and you also mention that your inks generic profile that were available were not plug and play from your ink vendor.

I'm curious since you do your own profiles what are your actual transferred target substrates? I don't see how to take some substrates like puzzles, mugs, and tiles and use them as the transferred targets for input into the optical equipment. 

So do you use a single target like a clean white plastic then tweak the profile to make it specific to the substrate by taking the profile made from the actual substrate then tweak it using software that can edit your already made profile?

I think this would be the biggest difference between those that profile art papers vs. hard good sublimation items.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

We make profiles for the substrates that are possible in terms of practicality and cost ... I'd love to do a custom profile for our glass coasters, but the unit cost is too high and I think trying to get a good reading through the glass would not be possible, likewise a mug is too tricky, so we have a 'generic' profile done on white aluminium to cover high gloss/white things, or substrates impossible to scan.
When we started SaB made us our first profile to get us going (a white aluminium based one) but I soon worked out that if we were to do a few profiles then it would be cheaper and more convenient to buy our own kit.
This has proved a brilliant investment, although we haven't changed inks over the years as InkTec has worked well for us, we have upgraded out printers twice since then, and changed transfer paper manufacturer 3 times (IIRC) which affected things a lot more than I expected.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Mdrake said:


> I use Image Right and Dye Trans paper. I want to mention that one issue that I've had from day one was using Cobra's recommended printer settings. There's NO WAY I can use "Bright White Paper" for the paper type. When I choose that, the colors are completely off. Blacks are gray (and green), Reds are pink, and so on. I've tried on different aluminum plates and on high quality poly fabric. I've talked to Richard about this but he says he doesn't have this problem so the support ends there.
> 
> Attached are the screen shots of my settings. I also attached the color that I can't get printed correctly if you want to give it a try.


Before we discuss your posted pink/magenta color lets verify that you have the correct profile for the ink you are actually using, CS 4 or NZ 4 inks, this matters.

Next print this file using the dye trans paper. Transfer it on poly cloth then photo or scan it and post back here.

It's important to use this file, when you describe "red" what does that mean? The red in this file is objective, with your current settings you won't need to tweak it. The red and all other colors are known good in this file. 

I have no idea what your "red" would look like on my highly accurate calibrated monitor, so we use _objective_ color and not _subjective_ color for this testing.

http://www.gballard.net/dl/PDI_TargetFolderONLY.zip


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Mdrake said:


> I use Image Right and Dye Trans paper. I want to mention that one issue that I've had from day one was using Cobra's recommended printer settings. There's NO WAY I can use "Bright White Paper" for the paper type. When I choose that, the colors are completely off. Blacks are gray (and green), Reds are pink, and so on. I've tried on different aluminum plates and on high quality poly fabric. I've talked to Richard about this but he says he doesn't have this problem so the support ends there.
> 
> Attached are the screen shots of my settings. I also attached the color that I can't get printed correctly if you want to give it a try.


 Also, make sure you are printing on the correct side of the Dye Trans paper. This will be the brightest white side or the side that will stick to a wet finger BTW.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> The idea _some_ are spouting that color management should be "plug and play" is absurd.


I will keep this short and black and white. We are not a large dye sub shop but one of the best and most respected in the market. We will do between 500K-600K this year. 

We stock 5 unique fabrics ranging from standard poly mesh, flag material, poly canvas, etc. We also print on FRP, license plates, mouse pads, on a daily basis.

We have one single profile and one single type of paper. When we switched to our current ink the profile was emailed to us. Took maybe 5 minutes to copy and install. We have not touched it since, not once.

100% factual - our color management is plug and play. To say otherwise is ignoring facts.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> I will keep this short and black and white. We are not a large dye sub shop but one of the best and most respected in the market. We will do between 500K-600K this year.
> 
> We stock 5 unique fabrics ranging from standard poly mesh, flag material, poly canvas, etc. We also print on FRP, license plates, mouse pads, on a daily basis.
> 
> ...


RYDERZ READY, your substrates perhaps. But try some others outside those I mentioned. 80% of mine is plug and play as far as the profile is concerned. But color management is not just dealing with substrate and profiles, handling art as it comes is also part of color management, and that can also require decision making and adjustment, especially color critical logos. I wish I could just compose art and import things into the computer all on it's own without any adjustment ... just make things "plug and play". It all comes down to how much precision your customers require.

I take you at your word, you know nothing about color management.

Do you have anything that can help the OP RIDERZ READY or are you here to troll and toot your own horn?

And if you are the "one of the best and most respected in the market" why is it there is no "Prescott Press" to be found on the internet doing sports apparel?

Why use a sock puppet to post here?


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

Mark you can't hided your warp and ego mind.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

skdave said:


> Mark you can't hided your warp and ego mind.


Congratulations your first post not trying to sell your "stuff" to members.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Congratulations your first post not trying to sell your "stuff" to members.


Being that prior to this I have called you out 4 times previously as being RIDERZ READY I see no denial ?

Mark, your silence on that is very very telling.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> RYDERZ READY, your substrates perhaps. But try some others outside those I mentioned. 80% of mine is plug and play as far as the profile is concerned. But color management is not just dealing with substrate and profiles, handling art as it comes is also part of color management, and that can also require decision making and adjustment, especially color critical logos. I wish I could just compose art and import things into the computer all on it's own without any adjustment ... just make things "plug and play". It all comes down to how much precision your customers require.
> 
> I take you at your word, you know nothing about color management.
> 
> ...


This should have been your post versus calling me out specifically for claiming to have plug and play profiles. It is a fact for us. I listed all the substrates we print on as it is a wide range. The only reason to challenge this statement is to be argumentative. As you now point it is a fact for us and should be for 90% of the people on this forum.

It would have been equally absurd if I stated every single person should be able to use one profile, one paper for everything. There are cases where it surely is required but should be the majority.

You are 100% correct - I know zero about color management because I have zero need to know anything about color management due to our profile/ink combination. To that I add I would guess 95% of people in this forum also know zero about color management nor should the vast majority have to. Surely they may be unique applications that require it but not for the majority of forum members. 

If you really want to assist the OP as you challenged me does it not make sense to first show him an example of what he is trying to accomplish - bright, neon like colors using Cobra Ink. You instead post a picture of a Bison tile with no neon like colors. Did that address his issue? 

Why no Prescott Press on the internet? You should know this better than anyone. We do not need Facebook, web sites, etc at all. It is all from word of mouth, etc.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Being that prior to this I have called you out 4 times previously as being RIDERZ READY I see no denial ?
> 
> Mark, your silence on that is very very telling.


I think Dave is a big boy and can respond by himself. No need for you respond for other people.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> This should have been your post versus calling me out specifically for claiming to have plug and play profiles. It is a fact for us. I listed all the substrates we print on as it is a wide range. The only reason to challenge this statement is to be argumentative. As you now point it is a fact for us and should be for 90% of the people on this forum.
> 
> It would have been equally absurd if I stated every single person should be able to use one profile, one paper for everything. There are cases where it surely is required but should be the majority.
> 
> ...


So you are not denying that you are Riderz Ready?


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> So you are not denying that you are Riderz Ready?


 Stick to the OP and simply post a picture of neon like colors like the OP is requiring. I have called you out several times to post examples. Are you still claiming to be able to produce those colors with Cobra ink? Your silence is telling.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Stick to the OP and simply post a picture of neon like colors like the OP is requiring. I have called you out several times to post examples. Are you still claiming to be able to produce those colors with Cobra ink? Your silence is telling.


Riderz you fool no one. Prescott Press = Riderz Ready.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

Mdrake - your problem will finally be solved.

MGParrish is going to post a sample of the colors you are looking for and then can email the profile and setting he used to get the bright neon colors you are requesting. 

Could have been done in one post instead of all the nonsense. Best wishes moving forward.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Riderz you fool no one. Prescott Press = Riderz Ready.


Stick to topic please. Just post the pics and email the profile and settings to Mdrake.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

Stick to the OP and produce the colors. Your ducking the OP issue says a lot. Have you ever produced a neon like color with your profiles and Cobra Ink as requested by the OP?

If you need to continuing your jr.high infatuation with Riders Ready vs Prescott Press start your own thread.

Your the color management expert - get the guy the colors he is requesting. That is what the thread is about.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Mdrake said:


> I use Image Right and Dye Trans paper. I want to mention that one issue that I've had from day one was using Cobra's recommended printer settings. There's NO WAY I can use "Bright White Paper" for the paper type. When I choose that, the colors are completely off. Blacks are gray (and green), Reds are pink, and so on. I've tried on different aluminum plates and on high quality poly fabric. I've talked to Richard about this but he says he doesn't have this problem so the support ends there.
> 
> Attached are the screen shots of my settings. I also attached the color that I can't get printed correctly if you want to give it a try.


MDrake, if you are getting pinks instead of red blacks are gray instead of black this really is the root of your problem. Bright saturated colors like you post are also going to be weak, so we deal with the overall weakness first. 

Even a gory profile should be able to reproduce fully saturated color. There is likely more going on here than just your profile and inks.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Stick to the OP and produce the colors. Your ducking the OP issue says a lot. Have you ever produced a neon like color with your profiles and Cobra Ink as requested by the OP?
> 
> If you need to continuing your jr.high infatuation with Riders Ready vs Prescott Press start your own thread.
> 
> Your the color management expert - get the guy the colors he is requesting. That is what the thread is about.


Why don't you just deny that you are Riderz Ready and we can move on? But after 6 or 7 times times being called out and no response it's pretty obvious, no one would belive otherwise now. If someone claimed I wasn't who I stated I was I would address that.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Why don't you just deny that you are Riderz Ready and we can move on? If someone claimed I wasn't who I stated I was I would address that.


Why do you not simply tell MDrake you have never produced neo like colors using Cobra Ink and stop wasting his time?

Why have this poor guy jump through all these hoops when you are unable to do what he is asking?

If I was called out for not being able to do what I am claiming, I would address it.

Please start a Prescott Press is Riders Ready thread as you are embarrassing yourself with this behavior.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Why do you not simply tell MDrake you have never produced neo like colors using Cobra Ink and stop wasting his time?
> 
> Why have this poor guy jump through all these hoops when you are unable to do what he is asking?
> 
> ...


 The OP weak color issues are universal, I an addressing that. 

Why don't you just post as Riderz Ready?


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> The OP weak color issues are universal, I an addressing that.
> 
> Why don't you just post as Riderz Ready?


Too funny - the OP was hot pink and hot green. Your addressing everything but the issue. 

There is an old wise saying that fits so perfectly - 

Those who can do; those who can't, teach.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Too funny - the OP was hot pink and hot green. Your addressing everything but the issue.
> 
> There is an old wise saying that fits so perfectly -
> 
> Those who can do; those who can't, teach.


 Re-read his other post I'm sure he isn't having a "Neon Black" issue now?

I am addressing the issue directly. The problem Riderz Ready is that you are here to troll and damage a vendors product without getting to the root of the issue.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> Re-read his other post I'm sure he isn't having a "Neon Black" issue now?
> 
> I am addressing the issue directly. The problem Riderz Ready is that you are here to troll and damage a vendors product without getting to the root of the issue.


 Trolling, damaging a vendors product? Your accusations are so far from the truth and simply your way of trying to deflect that ones opinion my be different then yours. You attack anyone that differs from your comment. 

As I stated I have used Cobra Ink in our office WF1100's for years. I have zero issue with them and in fact pretty sure I actually buy more of their ink than you do.

If you review the thread I was conversing my experience of actually "doing" directly with the OP. Not you. You attacked as you always do the second you did not agree. 

I simply do not like to see a new person spin their wheels on something that may not even be possible. You as a color management expert, should simply be able to tell him given your expertise can or can they get the hot pink and hot green that was asked in the OP? I would assume your system is set up correctly and should be a good sound test to see if it is possible. If you cannot accomplish it why waste his time.

It is ok if the ink can't hit the colors. Doesn't mean the ink sucks just means it is out of range.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Trolling, damaging a vendors product? Your accusations are so far from the truth and simply your way of trying to deflect that ones opinion my be different then yours. You attack anyone that differs from your comment.
> 
> As I stated I have used Cobra Ink in our office WF1100's for years. I have zero issue with them and in fact pretty sure I actually buy more of their ink than you do.
> 
> ...


Riderz Ready. I actually use the inks, blacks should be black, not gray, reds should not be pink. I honestly think this is over your head.

Yes you are trolling. Your comments imply there is something wrong with the inks and profiles. You have no clue what is really wrong here but you have indicted the vendor and the product.

************
QUOTES

"If you take the overall number of Sawgrass ink users versus Cobra ink users I would guess it is 1,000+ to 1 ratio thus the number of post with color issues should reflect the same ratio yet I would say that the ratio of Cobra color issue posts far exceed Sawgrass color issue posts."

"Getting cheap ink with so so profiles defeats the entire purpose. How many times have there been post about how Cobra produces good colors with the word "except" inserted? Bright colors is the rage this year and you can get really close to neon like results with a professional ink and profiles."

"If you look back on all the hours people must have spent assisting and trying to get Cobra inks to work it has to be in the hundreds upon hundreds of hours wasted and that is just on this forum."
******************

I know from a gazzilion Riderz Ready posts you are constantly getting into Cobra threads and with ZERO experience with them and constantly bash them. 

Before we convince the gentleman that he cannot hit black or red how about we go about this methodically and see if there are not "pinks that should be red" due to inks not getting through all the nozzle or dye release issues? 

Or should he just throw all his investment and buy the large format printers and inks you use?

You can't get beyond the fact if blacks and reds can't be achieved due to lack of saturation then how would you expect other colors like bright greens would either?

What I call "neon" and what you call "neon" are probably not the same. They sell "Neon" "DayGlo" or "Fluorescent" inks for large format or one can buy transfers with those special high luminescence inks from SKDave. These are not your typical run of the mil sublimation inks.

Clearly he has an overall color problem, he clearly has indicated so. Before we determine if his ink gamut is sufficient to hit those other colors how about we look at his overall weak color problem, don't you think?

This gentleman is using Cobra inks, there are some good high bright greens and pinks for example in my attached screenshot of his website... neon? Maybe not the same as SKDave's neon with special inks but certainly very bright and vibrant. "Neon like" perhaps.

His post about his usage, 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t383169.html#post2161858

"I have used Cobra ink for years for my sublimation inks, NZ-4 which is now called CS-4 and I've never had an issue with color changes or anything...I go thru about 8oz a week of all colors and have had zero issues...

Maybe it's the printer, substrate or something else...I'll never use another company for my sublimation ink...their CIS system and inks have been flawless along with being able to call Ashley, Richard or Emma any time and they help you right away..."

FINISHED PHOTOS

The post where the gentleman has put his website up is at ...

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t383169.html#post2163465

Good looking stuff.


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## Mdrake (Aug 2, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> Before we discuss your posted pink/magenta color lets verify that you have the correct profile for the ink you are actually using, CS 4 or NZ 4 inks, this matters.
> 
> Next print this file using the dye trans paper. Transfer it on poly cloth then photo or scan it and post back here.
> 
> ...


I'm currently using the CS-4 inks, using the CS-4 color profiles. And yes I'm sure that I'm using the correct profiles. I have been since October and have sold a ton of stuff with no complaints regarding the color (always using the paper matte setting). Almost everything is perfect except the neon-like colors. When I say "almost", that's because my ONLY complaint so far has been that the black hasn't been pure black as I mentioned earlier in the thread. However, it is not noticeable at all unless you get some strong light on it. It looks like hex code#120000 pretty much instead of #000000.

I'm not sure if you remember, but I was the one that asked for help for this very same issue back in September (in that huge thread where you and Gordon went back and forth). I don't have any fabric at hand right now but here is a post that I made in that thread showing the difference between the alum profile and the poly profile using NZ-4 inks: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p1383409-post91.html

If you think I should do it again with the CS-4 inks and profiles, I'll get some fabric and do it. However, I'll tell you right now that the transfers will look exactly like the images in that link above. I say that because I had the same exact problem back then using their NZ-4 inks. Choosing the Poly profile and switching the Paper setting to "Premium Presentation Paper Matte" fixed the problem back then with those inks and it does right now with the CS-4 inks as well.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Mdrake said:


> I'm currently using the CS-4 inks, using the CS-4 colors.
> 
> I'm not sure if you remember, but I was the one that asked for help for this very same issue back in September (in that huge thread where you and Gordon went back and forth). I don't have any fabric at hand right now but here is a post that I made in that thread showing the difference between the alum profile and the poly profile using NZ-4 inks: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p1383409-post91.html
> 
> If you think I should do it again with the CS-4 inks and profiles, I'll get some fabric and do it. However, I'll tell you right now that the transfers will look exactly like the images in that link above. I say that because I had the same exact problem back then using their NZ-4 inks. Choosing the Poly profile and switching the Paper setting to "Premium Presentation Paper Matte" fixed the problem back then with those inks and it does right now with the CS-4 inks as well.


Very good news.

Yes, if you look at the file from your profile zip it details the settings for which paper setting. quality/substrate.

Since the problem is solved you won't need to post the fabric photos, but as a suggestion it is a really good idea to make one and keep as reference later. If your computer hard drive goes or you lose your settings you have a transferred reference of your known good setup.

A brief explanation of what was happening ...

Since all your colors were weak it was because you were not getting enough dye transfer ... blacks were gray reds were pink those "neon" colors would be weak too.

Epson controls the amount of ink laid down in the paper type setting, the "Premium Presentation Paper Matte" lays down a lot more ink vs. say "Plain Paper".

Epson in the plain paper setting and others subdue the ink laid down as thinner paper will "cockle" from excessive inks and then also dry slower. The Premium Presentation Paper Matte can take in a lot more ink. 

More ink = more dye.
More dye = bolder colors (until you 100% saturate)

Since the profile was created for a precise setting, it is needed to match that setting when printing.


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> "I have used Cobra ink for years for my sublimation inks, NZ-4 which is now called CS-4 and I've never had an issue with color changes or anything...I go thru about 8oz a week of all colors and have had zero issues...
> 
> Maybe it's the printer, substrate or something else...I'll never use another company for my sublimation ink...their CIS system and inks have been flawless along with being able to call Ashley, Richard or Emma any time and they help you right away..."
> 
> ...


MDrake - let me assist you in filling in all the gaps regarding the post by MGParrish. 

Cobra Inks will work for many people - no question about it. The issue in your OP is bright neon like colors.

Mike has responded with one of his infamous cut and paste post that is very misleading. The picture he has posted is a cut and sew shirt - that is 100% a fact. Anyone who does cut and sew goes through 10 times plus the amount of ink the gentleman stated that he uses per week which raises big red flags.

Not one to usually waste time reading old post this one is the exception. If you go back to that post you can clearly read, in black and white he does not do cut and sew and in fact subs it out.

Thus what MGParrish did is mislead you in thinking this guy created the shirt in the pic with Cobra Ink. 

If one wants to help members in this forum they should not totally mislead someone with the only goal being to save face.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> MDrake - let me assist you in filling in all the gaps regarding the post by MGParrish.
> 
> Cobra Inks will work for many people - no question about it. The issue in your OP is bright neon like colors.
> 
> ...


Riderz Ready are you finished trolling?

The OP issue is resolved.

On his page there are also several sublimation tshirts where they are not full cut and sew. Very bright neon like colors.

He (MDRAKE) has a good hot pink in the NZ fabric print and say the colors of his CS inks are now OK.

I have a shirt or 2 laying around somewhere where I have those hot pinks. I actually use the inks you know nothing about.

YOU HAVE PROVED NOTHING FAIL. It is you that is saving face. 

Is the reason that you are not posting as Riderz Ready because you were banned by the admins here about a year ago mostly for trolling?


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

My apologies, in one of the posts the gentleman was reporting using 8OZ of inks a week, he later clarified he used that amount of the 4 colors in a week. That gentleman does use Cobra inks and is happy. I also had read he outsources "the cut and sew" thinking he did the printing then sent the assembly outside. My mistake. 

But the OP issue is reported resolved. 

Riderz Ready is posting as "Prescott Press". He was banned about a year ago from here for trolling, and now he is back again using a sock puppet ... trolling. Offers zero help, has no experience with this product. when the issue is resolved he can't man up.

It is "Prescott Press" that is misleading, he blamed the ink vendor. And it is he that is misleading with the sock puppet. CASE CLOSED


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## Prescott Press (Jun 17, 2014)

mgparrish said:


> My apologies, in one of the posts the gentleman was reporting using 8OZ of inks a week, he later clarified he used that amount of the 4 colors in a week. That gentleman does use Cobra inks and is happy. I also had read he outsources "the cut and sew" thinking he did the printing then sent the assembly outside. My mistake.
> 
> But the OP issue is reported resolved.
> 
> ...


Deflect deflect deflect - a good strategy when caught first handed baiting and switching in an attempt to prove your point. Stunning the lengths one will go to and only when caught fesses up.

You know darn well what you were doing as the thread you copied and pasted from was very clear and direct. You simply chose to pick one post from the thread then pick an unrelated picture and actually try to convince one that it was done with Cobra ink. 

Your defense is to deflect from the topic by continuing your obsession with riders ready. 

By the way I did not read where MDrake was able to hit the hot colors he originally was requesting.

I get you wanting to close a thread you got caught misleading people but I am guessing the thread will close with your inability to show neon like colors with Cobra Ink as predicted.

Maybe close with another rant about you and riders ready. I am sure that is of great interest to everyone on the forum.

If "trolling" is exposing members who purposely mislead other members - then I was trolling.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Prescott Press said:


> Deflect deflect deflect - a good strategy when caught first handed baiting and switching in an attempt to prove your point. Stunning the lengths one will go to and only when caught fesses up.
> 
> You know darn well what you were doing as the thread you copied and pasted from was very clear and direct. You simply chose to pick one post from the thread then pick an unrelated picture and actually try to convince one that it was done with Cobra ink.
> 
> ...


I already admitted my mistake, and it was not intentional. RYDERS READY.

My point is already proven, the issue was weak transfer due to insufficient ink caused by the driver setting.

The OP has already posted a fabric with the hot pink with Cobra inks.

Your intention is to distract from your mis-information by making me the topic.

CASE CLOSED


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## Mdrake (Aug 2, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> Very good news.
> 
> Yes, if you look at the file from your profile zip it details the settings for which paper setting. quality/substrate.
> 
> ...


Wait...I'm not sure why you thought the issue is resolved? Let me clarify my last post.

My response to you was letting you know that I already did your suggestion of sublimating to fabric way back when I first had issues with the NZ inks. Using Cobra's recommended "Paper White/Bright White Paper" for their profiles DID NOT work for me. Changing the paper type to "Paper Presentation Matte" did resolve my MAIN problem of all colors being way off back then. What it did not resolve was the neon type colors, and the black being more of an extremely dark red. The black issue hasn't been noticed by any customers (but it really bothers me because I'm picky) and I never had to do any neon type colors until now which is what made me start this thread. What I was trying to say was sublimating to fabric with the CS-4 inks that I now have will look no different than the images that I had attached in that link that I had in my last post. 

So basically, the neon type colors still do not work and I still cannot use the "aluminum plate" profile with the "bright white paper" setting. I tried it last week and the blacks where grayish with a green tint, and everything was basically half it's color tone. The whole reason of mentioning using the "Paper Matte" setting was to point out that I believe that the color profile might be the problem.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Mdrake said:


> Wait...I'm not sure why you thought the issue is resolved? Let me clarify my last post.
> 
> My response to you was letting you know that I already did your suggestion of sublimating to fabric way back when I first had issues with the NZ inks. Using Cobra's recommended "Paper White/Bright White Paper" for their profiles DID NOT work for me. Changing the paper type to "Paper Presentation Matte" did resolve my MAIN problem of all colors being way off back then. What it did not resolve was the neon type colors, and the black being more of an extremely dark red. The black issue hasn't been noticed by any customers (but it really bothers me because I'm picky) and I never had to do any neon type colors until now which is what made me start this thread. What I was trying to say was sublimating to fabric with the CS-4 inks that I now have will look no different than the images that I had attached in that link that I had in my last post.
> 
> So basically, the neon type colors still do not work and I still cannot use the "aluminum plate" profile with the "bright white paper" setting. I tried it last week and the blacks where grayish with a green tint, and everything was basically half it's color tone. The whole reason of mentioning using the "Paper Matte" setting was to point out that I believe that the color profile might be the problem.


Quote:

"_If you think I should do it again with the CS-4 inks and profiles, I'll get some fabric and do it. However, I'll tell you right now that the transfers will look exactly like the images in that link above. I say that because I had the same exact problem back then using their NZ-4 inks*. Choosing the Poly profile and switching the Paper setting to "Premium Presentation Paper Matte" fixed the problem back then with those inks and it does right now with the CS-4 inks as well*._ "

Seriously ... why wouldn't I think your problem was fixed? Just what is "the problem" then? You are also mentioning blacks that are gray and reds that are pinks. 

Post your fabric transfers with the profiles you wish to use. Please state precisely the paper used, the paper type setting, and what profile was used.

I will cede to Riderz Ready about just what the heck your problem is.

Also,

"Prescott Press...are you able to successfully get these neon type colors? I came across another forum earlier where someone had the same complaint and it looked like most responses said that it's unlikely you can get a hot pink with sublimation ink. "

There is differences in inks as far as gamut goes, but all sublimation is gamut limited compared to other regular printing inks. We can have debates as to who's inks are "hotter" but your "hot" neon colors are best achieved with special inks that are designed to be "neon".

Dye Sublimation Ink: Ink Jet, Offset, Litho, Screen

ref: FLUORESCENT Inkjet Dye Sublimation

SG has these as well for the 4880.

My $2000 8 color 4880 with pigments would hit a "hotter neon" but you are using a sub $200 color _workforce_ printer designed for office use. And then you are using inks that the printer was not designed for. 

Having said that I'm able to get most things to work, I also understand the limitations of my sub $200 4 color printer designed for office printing and work around it accordingly. 

Reading your post you are expecting something more like Pisque is able to achieve, but you don't want to spend the money for his level of equipment and more cart colors or spend the time learning the limitation of a low end office printer and the work-arounds. 

_No profile in the world is going to boost your inks brightness, it is what it is_. 

I get a good bright pink and your pink in your fabric transfer should be what to expect. But it is not what I would deem "neon". If that's not enough sorry but it's what's out there. I have used Artainum and Sublijet inks too, they have the same limitations.

If you really want something "hot neon" suggest you look at SKDaves neon transfer service. He uses different inks for those that are not normal general purpose production wide format sublimation inks.

When/if you post your fabric please make sure I have a clear view of the unprinted white area so I can set the white point and balance in PS, that will let me compensate for your less than ideal lighting.


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