# Transfer problem - plastisol can be scratched off with fingernail, is that normal?



## singler3 (Aug 23, 2007)

Is it normal to be able to scratch the ink off a t-shirt from a plastisol transfer when it is given a hard scratch or am I doing something wrong.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

an acceptable test would be to rub some tough adhesive tape over it and see what comes off.
transfers will never be as durable as direct prints and i printed them in production by the thousands..


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## denck (Apr 7, 2009)

It sounds like the ink didnt get cured properly.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Transfers will be plenty durable under normal wear and tear, I don't know what a 'hard scratch' is so I can't really comment. I stretch test my prints, transfers and direct screenprinting. Once cured, stretch the shirt widthwise and the transfer should not crack. If it does crack, it isn't cured.


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## singler3 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks for your reply. They do stretch well and don't crack and have held up well after a number of wash cycles. By scratch I mean just scratching it a bit with my fingernail. I can remove some ink of a transfer when I scratch it but with a direct print I can't scratch anything off.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I tried scratching some shirts I transferred, they don't scratch off.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

If a transfer cracks when stretching,you have used the wrong underbase/base.
You should use a spandesol based underbase to eliminate this problem.
I reiterate,a paper transfer applied by heat will not be as durable as a direct print.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

gnilrac said:


> If a transfer cracks when stretching,you have used the wrong underbase/base.
> You should use a spandesol based underbase to eliminate this problem.
> I reiterate,a paper transfer applied by heat will not be as durable as a direct print.


Plastisol alone will stretch considerably before it cracks, more than enough to survive a stretch test, which is the point of a stretch test. All other things being equal, durability comes down to thickness.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

If durability equates to thickness of print,then it seems like throwing money at a problem.You would end up with a thick,sweaty transfer whereas using the correct underbase would give a soft finish to the print.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

gnilrac said:


> If durability equates to thickness of print,then it seems like throwing money at a problem.You would end up with a thick,sweaty transfer whereas using the correct underbase would give a soft finish to the print.


All other things being equal, a thick print will always outlast a thin print. But durability with plastisols, direct printed or transferred isn't a problem if they are printed correctly in the first place. Heavy ink coverage will outlast the shirt, easily, but who cares. A lighter hand is more comfortable to wear and will last for years, as will transfers.

None of this helps the OP, the point being a transfer will not scratch off under normal wear and tear. When I scratch my transfers they do not flake off. It may be possible to scratch them hard enough to make them flake but I'm not going to try. All you need to know is whether it is properly cured and scratching doesn't tell you that but stretching will.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

With all due respect,i beg to differ.
The stretch of a print does not gauge cured status.
If you refer to my post using spandesol as an underbase then you could stretch any print as it is exclusively made for that very purpose.
This would negate the offer that stretch is an acceptable means of cured status.
I think this has grown into a whose !!!! Is bigger contest between us so could we agree to disagree?


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

gnilrac said:


> With all due respect,i beg to differ.
> The stretch of a print does not gauge cured status.


You're trying to use an exception to disprove the rule and it doesn't work like that. Plastisol is basically plastic, at curing temperatures it bonds and will stretch a good bit when pulled. If it doesn't reach curing temperature it will crack apart when pulled because the ink hasn't fused. That isn't my opinion. 



gnilrac said:


> If you refer to my post using spandesol as an underbase then you could stretch any print as it is exclusively made for that very purpose.


That may be true for any print where Spandesol was used. Is the OP using Spandesol? It wasn't mentioned so I'm not assuming he is using it. If he isn't using it then it has nothing to do with his question. Spandesol is for printing on Spandex, it isn't necessary for general use.



gnilrac said:


> This would negate the offer that stretch is an acceptable means of cured status.


Maybe, maybe not; I've never used Spandesol so I don't know if it cracks when undercured but I would be surprised if it didn't since plastisol doesn't cure gradually but all at once.



gnilrac said:


> I think this has grown into a whose !!!! Is bigger contest between us so could we agree to disagree?


That's a cop out. You can stretch a print and tell if it's cured or not. Whether that's true for Spandesol I don't know, but it is true for regular Plastisol.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

With all due respect,you are continously contradicting yourself ,good sir.
You are enforcing your opinion that "Plastisol is basically plastic, at curing temperatures it bonds and will stretch a good bit when pulled. If it doesn't reach curing temperature it will crack apart when pulled because the ink hasn't fused. That isn't my opinion."
How can you offer non opinioned advice as an answer to i and all other readers of this thread.
If you consider this a worthy answer then i ask of you how you can comment on spandesol as a base when you have never used it?
I continuously use spandesol as a mixture into any stretchy substrate i encounter as safe guard measure to eliminate ANY cracking whether transfer or direct prints.


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## Girlzndollz (Oct 3, 2007)

Some very good information has been added to this thread, points and counterpoints. Certainly the rounded out information will be helpful to the OP, and other future readers of the thread. There is certainly enough information posted for people to follow up and research the various opinions/facts stated. Thank you to everyone who has contributed. 

I have very limited experience with plastisol personally, but have read a great deal about them on the forum. It sounds like something is wrong with these plastisols to me. I don't usually read where a good, quality plastisol will scratch off with a fingernail. I hear the quality when using plastisols is very, very good, when the plastisol is a good quality, and correctly printed, plastisol transfer. Jmo.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

gnilrac said:


> With all due respect,you are continously contradicting yourself ,good sir.
> You are enforcing your opinion that "Plastisol is basically plastic, at curing temperatures it bonds and will stretch a good bit when pulled. If it doesn't reach curing temperature it will crack apart when pulled because the ink hasn't fused. That isn't my opinion."
> How can you offer non opinioned advice as an answer to i and all other readers of this thread.
> If you consider this a worthy answer then i ask of you how you can comment on spandesol as a base when you have never used it?
> I continuously use spandesol as a mixture into any stretchy substrate i encounter as safe guard measure to eliminate ANY cracking whether transfer or direct prints.


If you're going to state that I'm contradicting myself, at least have the courtesy to point out the contradictions.

It isn't my opinion that Plastisol is a plastic, it is a plastic, PVC to be specific. Read up: 
General Information About Plastisol Inks

Which specific comment of mine about Spandesol are you disagreeing with? I have no problem with you using Spandesol, my question is why did you bring it up in the first place? Is the OP using Spandesol? I don't know, maybe you know something about the situation I don't.

Frankly you seem to be disagreeing with _me _as opposed to disagreeing with what I've actually written.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

Rick,lets call it a day on this one.You can have the girl...


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't claim to know everything about printing, or about plastisol, but I screenprinted my first t-shirt in the mid-80's and I know what I know. The first thing I learned after pulling the squeegee was the stretch test, and the rub test which I don't rely on alone, and it has served me for over 20 years and thousands of shirts and transfers. I'm the kind of guy that when something is reliable and never fails, I stick with it. Honestly I've never used Spandesol and I don't know how it affects uncured ink, but I don't understand what it had to do with this thread. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I can admit it but nothing I've written here is inaccurate and I don't like someone calling me out then instead of supporting their argument they _pretend _they are letting me win. Either you have valid points or you don't.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

Im not pretending to let you 'win'.
Ive tired of this thread and its obvious that you will not be swayed from your view that stretch test is acceptable,whereas i dispute that as a solid method.Allow me to thank you for your colorful input and may we meet amicably on some other thread.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

There used to be a transfer maker on this forum that made stretchy custom plastisol transfers. I have some samples around here somewhere and they did stretch very well and still had a lite hand. I dont think any stock transfer company uses a stretch base or proprietary stretch ingredient in mass produced transfers. In ordering custom transfers this may well be an option available depending on the producer.

A new screenprint or plastisol transfer correctly produced without any stretch ingredient will stretch within an acceptable limit without cracking.

Down the road after multiple washings and or exposure to the elements I dont think either will give the same stretch results as the initial stretch test.

I can basically stretch anything after time and it will crack. Let me back up on that and say anything without a stretch additive as I dont have any prints like that available.

As far as being able to scratch a print...probably isnt going to flake off if done properly.


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## gnilrac (May 5, 2009)

Thank you david for your reply.
I stand by my assertion that a stretch test is unacceptable as a means to gauge cured status.
That is my point.


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## singler3 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks for the help. I have finally got it to work. I went through 4 or 5 different inks which would hold up in the wash and stretch but could be scratched off. I have found that union inks with adhesive powder are far more durable and can be scratched without damage to the print.


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