# vapor alternative better price, just as nice



## twilson (Feb 18, 2007)

I just got my first shipment of Monag polyester tshirts and I must tell you I am pleased. The fabric is nice although Vapor is a tad softer, I do not think anyone would really notice unless they had the shirts side by side. The great part about Monag is the price. Small through XL is just $4.00 if you buy in case lots. $4.25 if you buy 6 or more. I for one will be using them. I sublimated a design on Vapor and Monag and could not tell the difference. I suggest you give them a try.

I have no affiliation with Monag, just a happy sublimator due to having a choice over Vapor.

Tami


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## trophygametags (Apr 22, 2011)

I checked out their website, but I'm not seeing this low price you posted?? One mens tshirt is over 10 bucks.


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## sherr717 (Oct 20, 2008)

What sizes do their shirts come in?


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

I prefer Sublivie for dye sub, but I'm willing to try it out if you want to send me some samples.


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## twilson (Feb 18, 2007)

trophygametags said:


> I checked out their website, but I'm not seeing this low price you posted?? One mens tshirt is over 10 bucks.


You have to register as a wholesaler and log in to get the wholesale prices


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## twilson (Feb 18, 2007)

go to monag's website register and check thing out. they have adult and kids sizes although I did notice the very large adult sizes are more than Vapor. Go figure. As for samples I don't know if they will send them but it doesn't hurt to try.

tami


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## twilson (Feb 18, 2007)

headfirst said:


> I prefer Sublivie for dye sub, but I'm willing to try it out if you want to send me some samples.


I tried sublivie. I thought they were too thin, although some of the teens did like them. I did notice you have to dress the press or put something in between the front and back or your design goes through. 

Tami


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## solm96 (Mar 9, 2012)

Im just getting into Sub and tryed sublivie and also thought they were too thin. I hade very bad press marks and the image whent right through the shirt.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

solm96 said:


> Im just getting into Sub and tryed sublivie and also thought they were too thin. I hade very bad press marks and the image whent right through the shirt.


Make sure you're using foam. You should be using foam for any sub shirt, including vapor or monag. Polyester is so soft that the sub sheet will leave a crease in the shirt when pressed. It's permanent and wont wash out. 

The trick is to use a foam piece 1" smaller than your transfer sheet so that the edges of the transfer sheet hang over the page and do not get pressed.

As to the comment about it bleeding through.. I've seen it happen. One of the guys here always runs a sheet inside because he is afraid of it happening. I pressed a dozen last night on both sides without anything in between and didn't have any problems.


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## solm96 (Mar 9, 2012)

Thanks for the Great info Patrick. I got my Vapor foam in yesterday along with shirt samples.
Can I ask what brand shirts you are using?


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

solm96 said:


> Thanks for the Great info Patrick. I got my Vapor foam in yesterday along with shirt samples.
> Can I ask what brand shirts you are using?


We use a few different brands. 

My favorites to work with are Sublivie and the Hanes 4820 and 482L

Here is our list:
Dye Sublimation Performance Shirts | Plymouth, MI Screen Printing | Headfirst Printing

Cotton Style Shirts | Plymouth, MI Screen Printing | Headfirst Printing


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## PhilDx (Feb 13, 2010)

I've been meaning to get going with sub tees for a while now. Can you tell us what time/temp/pressure you've found works best (and any other tricks you find you need). Many thanks.


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## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

PhilDx said:


> I've been meaning to get going with sub tees for a while now. Can you tell us what time/temp/pressure you've found works best (and any other tricks you find you need). Many thanks.


I cook at 380F for 55 to 65 seconds


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

PhilDx said:


> I've been meaning to get going with sub tees for a while now. Can you tell us what time/temp/pressure you've found works best (and any other tricks you find you need). Many thanks.


As a very rough guideline - shirts are pressed on low to medium pressure at 200C for 45-60 sec, but you will find that different types of fabric, different blends, weaves, colours etc will require some sort of adjustments in your pressing settings. 
It's best to test every new blank you are working with to make sure you get the best results.

There is an extencive list of posts in dye-sub section of the forums with dosens and dosens of tricks of the trade - it may take you a few days to read through them, but it will be well worth it.

Apart from using foam inserts/teflon pillows to prevent press lines and using paper between the layers of shirt to prevent ink from bleading through, another important thing is a lint roller to prevent any stray flecks, specks, threads and dust from contaminating your print.


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## skdave (Apr 11, 2008)

I never use foam when dye subing.
I make my paper hang over the edge of the press and never get lines. If any on wants to try this method Just e mail me and I will send you a sample to try.
I dye sub at 40 seconds at 400 degrees F
Tell be you press size and sens me you art sample if you wish. 
Dave@skmfg.com

1-800-764-8688.

Or see me at the NBM show Thursday and Friday Walking the floor in the wildess DYE sub POLO on the floor.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

twilson said:


> I just got my first shipment of Monag polyester tshirts and I must tell you I am pleased. The fabric is nice although Vapor is a tad softer, I do not think anyone would really notice unless they had the shirts side by side. The great part about Monag is the price. Small through XL is just $4.00 if you buy in case lots. $4.25 if you buy 6 or more. I for one will be using them. I sublimated a design on Vapor and Monag and could not tell the difference. I suggest you give them a try.
> 
> I have no affiliation with Monag, just a happy sublimator due to having a choice over Vapor.
> 
> Tami


How does the fit of the Monag Vortex compare to the Vapor Basic? And which one is more opaque?

I was looking for a 100% poly shirt that is opaque (thick) and has more of a fashion fit with narrow sleeves. I don't care for the real baggy sleeves.


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

Out of curiosity, I made a totally unscientific test. This is the leading brand (left) and the fabric we are using (right), both performance microfibers. Ours is half of an ounce heavier, I think. I tried to be as fair as possible, applying pressure to get full contact with the bill (with a little help from my kid).

From what I see, one is a little less sheer than the other, but complete opaqueness is difficult, unless you go for much heavier fabric.

Cotton like polyester fabric is a different story.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

I got a Monag Vortex sample and they appear to run a size too large.

But that Monag is way too transparent. You not only see skin but also your shorts/jeans through it as well which looks weird. My guess is the white Vapor basic are the same. Not sure how well their off-white shirts look or how opaque they are, but might would blend better with the skin tone.

Can they not make a 100% poly white shirt that is opaque like a thick white cotton shirt? With the white cotton, the only thing you had to watch out for was just seeing the nipples.

I've read of some doing some kind of sublimation trick on a 50/50 shirt. May have to look into that.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Denali makes a little heavier white that is not as see thru like the rest.
also spf 50.

Holloway has a nice white one too that has 10% lycra in it so it stretches and feels nice to wear. And comes in two colored sleeve/shoulder. 

VKM has a low cost one. The 1069A. We didn't order any white ones but the colored ones had nice feel to them and the teams liked it much better than the Augusta 790 which none of the teams liked.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

freebird1963 said:


> Denali makes a little heavier white that is not as see thru like the rest.
> also spf 50.
> 
> Holloway has a nice white one too that has 10% lycra in it so it stretches and feels nice to wear. And comes in two colored sleeve/shoulder.
> ...


How is the fit on those? I like the fashion fit style, not blocky looking.

But I'm thinking 100% poly in white is not going to be an option. The Monag is 6.1oz and is still way too see-thru. Don't have that problem with 6.1oz cotton shirts.

I may get a sample of the Vapor off-white shirts, to see how opaque they look, but was interested mainly in white as I think the colors would pop better on white than light brown.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

jasonsmith said:


> How is the fit on those? I like the fashion fit style, not blocky looking.
> 
> But I'm thinking 100% poly in white is not going to be an option. The Monag is 6.1oz and is still way too see-thru. Don't have that problem with 6.1oz cotton shirts.
> 
> I may get a sample of the Vapor off-white shirts, to see how opaque they look, but was interested mainly in white as I think the colors would pop better on white than light brown.


Cant compare to cotton. Two different fabrics. Its not apples to apples comparison. Also these shirts are made for active wear and dry wicking so gonna be thinner. Ever seen a olympic runnerwearing a Hanes beefy t during a race ?

Again check out the Denali. Not as sheer. I believe the weave has something to do with that so not all shirts are the same.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

freebird1963 said:


> Cant compare to cotton. Two different fabrics. Its not apples to apples comparison. Also these shirts are made for active wear and dry wicking so gonna be thinner. Ever seen a olympic runnerwearing a Hanes beefy t during a race ?
> 
> Again check out the Denali. Not as sheer. I believe the weave has something to do with that so not all shirts are the same.


Actually I had sent Denali an e-mail a week or so ago and no response. But I don't think they'll end up working out as I'd bet they will be see-thru. With cotton shirts I had to go to 6.1oz just to get rid of seeing nipples. Which is part of the reason I don't hardly wear white shirts.

I looked at that Monag again, and the weave has a bunch of small holes in it. So that is what makes the see-thru part alot worse on that shirt. As I've got a thinner 100% poly shirt from the local store, and it has a real tight weave. So not as see-thru compared to the Monag, but still can see stuff like nipples. The Monag style I got was the one that is supposed to imitate cotton.

I'm thinking thick shirt with a tight weave, which probably doesn't exist with 100% poly shirts.

I may also check out that poly spray on cotton shirts and see how that compares to heat transfer paper.


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

Jason: have you tried the Vapors classic line? I bought a Long Sleeves Tee and a Ladies Classic Tee that are 6.9 oz. Not too comfy, but there is almost no transparency. Most of my cotton white tees are more see thru than these.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Max Dos said:


> Jason: have you tried the Vapors classic line? I bought a Long Sleeves Tee and a Ladies Classic Tee that are 6.9 oz. Not too comfy, but there is almost no transparency. Most of my cotton white tees are more see thru than these.


I've read several posts here of people complaining about Vapor white shirts being too see-thru. i.e. complaints from customers, etc. Though I think you are referring to their "basic" line? Their basic line is 5.9oz.

How is the weave on their "basic" line? Is it a tight weave, or are there a bunch of little holes in it like with a cotton weave?


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## Max Dos (Aug 28, 2010)

Really tight. I´m holding it in my hands right now. Heavy and a little harsh. The long sleeve feels almost like a sweatshirt. And it is 6.9 0z, take a look:

Product Detail for 6178L - DyeTrans.com


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## 343paul (Jan 1, 2012)

Max thats a Ladies basic T


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## 343paul (Jan 1, 2012)

The vapor basic T line feels has a cottony feel. To me they are softer than cotton. If you want real light you have to go with their microfiber line.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

343paul said:


> The vapor basic T line feels has a cottony feel. To me they are softer than cotton. If you want real light you have to go with their microfiber line.


What if you want opaque like thick cotton?


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## 343paul (Jan 1, 2012)

I would go with a 50/50 cotton shirt for thicker feel. You get a vintage sub finish because youll get some fadeout from the wash


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

343paul said:


> I would go with a 50/50 cotton shirt for thicker feel. You get a vintage sub finish because youll get some fadeout from the wash


Don't want vintage sub finish. Want bold bright full color, no wash out. Reason why I was looking at sublimation is because heat transfers look like crap and washed out.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Also found Denali wants $30 for a blank poly shirt. No where near an option at that price.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

jasonsmith said:


> Also found Denali wants $30 for a blank poly shirt. No where near an option at that price.


Your totally wrong. Thats their retail. Wholesale is a whole lot less.


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## Cathy91722 (Feb 26, 2010)

I have purchased 100% poly from www.bawonline.com and they are around $4.75 each. That isn't too bad, but their shipping is HORRID. The shirts are very nice and reasonable but as I said the shipping keeps me away.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

Cathy91722 said:


> I have purchased 100% poly from www.bawonline.com and they are around $4.75 each. That isn't too bad, but their shipping is HORRID. The shirts are very nice and reasonable but as I said the shipping keeps me away.


I have seen stuff like that before. I think that's how some companies work. Sell low and make it up with the shipping and handling charges.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

freebird1963 said:


> Your totally wrong. Thats their retail. Wholesale is a whole lot less.


Not wrong. Their website has them at $30. Yes it's a retail price, but I have to pay retail. So for me it's $30 a shirt. Not an option. Besides wholesale is $10. People consider it a downer having to pay $5 for a 100% poly Vapor, so Denali's wholesale price wouldn't be an option for most anyways. But I'd probably be willing to try some out if I could get them at wholesale pricing, but I can't as I can't set up a dealer account.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Cathy91722 said:


> I have purchased 100% poly from www.bawonline.com and they are around $4.75 each. That isn't too bad, but their shipping is HORRID. The shirts are very nice and reasonable but as I said the shipping keeps me away.


How is the opacity? Someone had told me Monag for example was opaque, but it ended up being the most transparent shirt I've ever had.

Though I looked on that bawonline and looks like they sell relaxed fit shirts, i.e. boxy Gildan style. So probably not an option as I only wear fitted shirts like AA 2001 or NL3600.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

jasonsmith said:


> Not wrong. Their website has them at $30. Yes it's a retail price, but I have to pay retail. So for me it's $30 a shirt. Not an option. Besides wholesale is $10. People consider it a downer having to pay $5 for a 100% poly Vapor, so Denali's wholesale price wouldn't be an option for most anyways. But I'd probably be willing to try some out if I could get them at wholesale pricing, but I can't as I can't set up a dealer account.


If your in the tshirt game WHY are you paying retail. ?? You will never make a buck if you have to buy everything retail. Don't you have a reseller tax id from your state ? 

Denali is more than some, less than others. I have used quite a bit of their stuff. It does not knot up like Augusta shirts do esp their 790 model. It washes better than the Vapor Phenoms and it has SPF which is a bonus for me here in Florida. It hangs better than the Phenoms on the body, tho I do not like the necks of the Denails. I find them to be tight.

The shirt I like the best is the holloways with the 10% lycra. They feel nice and hang great and have a stretch too them but they are 50% more than the Denali's and Phenoms.

Call Denali the guy Shalia or something like that I can never get it right, is a cool dude he might be able to work it out to send ya a shirt at wholesale. Won't hurt to ask. Call tho, emails sometimes get missed.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

freebird1963 said:


> If your in the tshirt game WHY are you paying retail. ?? You will never make a buck if you have to buy everything retail. Don't you have a reseller tax id from your state ?
> 
> Denali is more than some, less than others. I have used quite a bit of their stuff. It does not knot up like Augusta shirts do esp their 790 model. It washes better than the Vapor Phenoms and it has SPF which is a bonus for me here in Florida. It hangs better than the Phenoms on the body, tho I do not like the necks of the Denails. I find them to be tight.
> 
> ...


I buy retail because you have to have certain things in order to sign up for wholesale.


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## rosco219 (Aug 8, 2012)

twilson said:


> I just got my first shipment of Monag polyester tshirts and I must tell you I am pleased. The fabric is nice although Vapor is a tad softer, I do not think anyone would really notice unless they had the shirts side by side. The great part about Monag is the price. Small through XL is just $4.00 if you buy in case lots. $4.25 if you buy 6 or more. I for one will be using them. I sublimated a design on Vapor and Monag and could not tell the difference. I suggest you give them a try.
> 
> I have no affiliation with Monag, just a happy sublimator due to having a choice over Vapor.
> 
> Tami


HEy Tami,

What is there website URL...
Thank you Daniel!


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

I might see if I can buy some Denali shirts from someone who gets them wholesale.

I may try Vapor, and if those are too thin/see-thru, then I'll give up on the sublimation t-shirts.

I tried American Apparel sublimation shirts, but they are just too thin and have alot of small holes in the weave. Plus being so thin/holes the sublimation looked kinda washed out.


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## Tangy (Feb 11, 2013)

I agree, I like vapor.


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

Tangy said:


> I agree, I like vapor.


Do their basic line have a tight weave? Or is there a bunch of micro holes in it? I think the loose weave is what makes it really see-thru.

I'll probably also get some off-white Vapor to try out as well.

I'm going to try and find a full t-shirt to use as an undershirt that doesn't show through to try that as well.


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## 343paul (Jan 1, 2012)

I use vapor basic tees daily, ash heather and white, and they are not thin. In fact they are soft as cotton and could be mistaken for cotton. You can get them $5.73 wholesale. My customers love them.


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## 343paul (Jan 1, 2012)

Jason,

The basic tees don't have the micro holes. They look and feel like cotton or 50/50


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## jasonsmith (Mar 30, 2011)

343paul said:


> Jason,
> 
> The basic tees don't have the micro holes. They look and feel like cotton or 50/50


They do have the micro holes, as I've got some basic tees. It's just a loose weave.

They are way too see-thru anyways. I don't see how anyone can wear those white poly shirts with everything showing through.


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## cutter II (Apr 5, 2009)

Try the new Gildan 42000 poly shirts.


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