# Thinnest vinyl and most screen print like



## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

ok guys im looking for vinyl that will be pressed on 100% cotton t shirts and im loooking for vinyl that is relatively close to screen printing. I have been looking around the forum and these are some that people are saying are the best and most screen print like

Thermoflex plus 
Spectra cut plus
spectra cu II

and also a guy from coastal business supplies pm'd me about the digicut pu and i was wondering about that also. let me know what your guys think!!


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

We have just finished some baseball jerseys.
We used thermo-film from Stahls. I was very impressed with the out come of the whole project.
It can be used on cotton, polly or a blend.
We do primarly screen printing, and will use that product in the future.
BE GOOD


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

how would you compare it to screen printing? and have you used any of the others i suggested?


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

We have used Thermaflex before, seemed a little thick to me. If you are looking for a softer hand You really need to have them screen printed. Take a look www.stahls.com
BE GOOD


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

how long did that stuff last you?


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

As of yet I have had no complaints or returnes with that product. There are other ways to get the job done from the web site I had sent. I am just giving you a point of view from a screen printers perspective. They do offer cad prints, that come to you ready to press onto a shirt or other product. I have used that when we get really backed up.
BE GOOD


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

Could you give me a direct link to the stuff you bought? Cause I was looking at the stuff under the t shirt category


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

If you are on Stahls website www.stahls.com , Just punch in Thermo film in the search box. There you will find everything there is to know about it.
BE GOOD


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

If you want more of a dull finish, use kraft paper instead of a teflon sheet to accomplish that.
BE GOOD


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

anyone else have opinions??


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

Sorry I coudn't help....
BE GOOD


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

you helped. i just have never heard of that before i just want some other opinions on what others have used


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## JALAPENO INK (Sep 14, 2007)

If you dont have a silk screen press. Stahles will print them for you, so you can heat press them. Or you can visit www.proworldinc.com and they can do a plastisol transfer for you. Both places are pretty good. I havent seen your artwork, so I can not tell you the best place to get them done. I screen print 95% of the the product that I sell, and we print about 2000 shirts/month.
BE GOOD
Strive not to be a success, but rather, be of value....Albert Einstien


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## homesteademb (Apr 22, 2008)

We use Ecofilm from Imprintables We do alot of very small detailed work and the feel is just like screening. I can take pics of samples if you'd like. I have even used it for a 3 color design with no issues.


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## Ib4E (Aug 21, 2008)

JALAPENO INK said:


> If you want more of a dull finish, use kraft paper instead of a teflon sheet to accomplish that.
> BE GOOD


 
This is a great "trick" ! Many people want a matte finish so I go to my Kraft paper, but other times the Teflon sheet comes in very handy. It's good to have both materials on hand.


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## Ib4E (Aug 21, 2008)

Gotta love the 4 second press time and the fact that it's a "hot peel", and the tacky mylar carrrier helps alignment too!


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## Ib4E (Aug 21, 2008)

homesteademb said:


> We use Ecofilm from Imprintables We do alot of very small detailed work and the feel is just like screening. I can take pics of samples if you'd like. I have even used it for a 3 color design with no issues.


 
Gotta love the fact it's a 4 second application time, Low temp (302) and it's hot peel! I also like working with it because the mylar carrier is tacky and helps with alignment, especially when working with multiple layers.


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## homesteademb (Apr 22, 2008)

Ib4E said:


> Gotta love the fact it's a 4 second application time, Low temp (302) and it's hot peel! I also like working with it because the mylar carrier is tacky and helps with alignment, especially when working with multiple layers.


Yes you are absolutely correct. It also helps on the moisture wicking material.


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

is eco film matte?


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## Ib4E (Aug 21, 2008)

bradenjust said:


> is eco film matte?


 Eco film isn't too bad as far as having a "shine". especially if you rehit the garment using silicon coated kraft paper, it will give the matte look you are seeking. 
Here's the thing....you need to try it for yourself 

Call a few differnt distributors that offer different material, and ask for samples. Compare the materials...the way they weed, they way they apply, and most imortantly , how they look and feel after being washed. Not all vinyls are the same. You will find what you need fairly quickly. Check out the preferred members list and you'll be set!
Good luck!


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

What is this kraft paper your talking about? And am I suppose to be laying something down between the vinyl transfer and the heated part of the heatpress?


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## Cynthia (Jan 5, 2007)

I like using Easyweed. It is very easy to weed, pretty colors and have had no problems with it. Specialty Graphics carries it, and I have found them to be a good company to deal with.Heat applied transfer vinyl film for t-shirt and apparel decorating


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## bradenjust (Aug 4, 2009)

easyweed if for sure to thick i have some


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

no matter what anyone say no vinyl can ever replicate the feel and look of screenprinting. nothing. period.

if you are like i am you have a heat press but not a slikscreen setup. 

i bought my roland vinyl cutter after seeing what could be done with it, in hopes i wouldn't have to get a whole screen setup to accomplish my goals. nope.

using vinyl for me now is only for very short runs and only one color. it's great for doing jerseys as people expect the jerseys to feel the way they do (1-2 colors).trying to layer multicolor vinyl on a tshirt is ridiculous and feel like you're wearing a flack jacket.

that being said pricing out the vinyl for jerseys you'll find, isn't as cost effective as buying plastisol numbers and transfers. plastisol transfers IS the closest solution to getting a screenprint feel. people say it's exactly like screenprint because it is screenprinted onto paper and you transfer via heatpress. not true. it's close but not quite.

the thinnest vinyl i've found is eco film from imprintables. alot of the vinyls are sold under different names by other distributors. i buy from imprintables because that's where i bought my roland. http://www.imprintables.com/

for doing custom shirts (one color) vinyl is great. they also have alot of foils and gloss films out there now. most people that buy shirts with this stuff applied realize the feel of the item. but NOTHING compares to screenprinting.



ps: kraft paper is a thick paper cover sheet that has little ridges in it so when pressed (a second time after removing the film from applied vinyl) it removes alot of the shine of vinyl. not all of it though. here it is :

http://www.imprintables.com/index.c...action=dspItem&itemID=396&catID=15&subCatID=0

go to accessories and supplies> cover sheets

(answer to another question of yours): you'll find that most vinyl (if applied correctly) will outlast the life of your shirt. one major advantage over screenprinting.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Has any one used parchment paper to receive the same results,,?

Thanks great thread,,,


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## Ib4E (Aug 21, 2008)

sjidohair said:


> Has any one used parchment paper to receive the same results,,?
> 
> Thanks great thread,,,


I've used the parchment paper with ok results. I've found that silicon coated kraft paper last longer, does a great job and It's fairly cheap. Teflon sheets can be used as well help to bring a "shine" to a graphic, teflon last a long time and makes a great "overall" cover sheet.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks patrick,,

I have used teflon for shine and parchment for transfer paper ect, 

but was not aware of the the matt finish that a kraft sheet on vinyl can make,, 
Now,, is this all heatpress vinyl or certain kinds,,,?
thanks for all the input,,
Sandy jo
MMM


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## Fidel (May 6, 2010)

We use foils called Profiflex (50µm) and Premiumflex (around 80-100µm).
The Profiflex is more expensive, but it is hot-peel and I can confidently say that customers cannot tell the difference between screen/flex with this foil. It's so thin that its a little harder to weed, but not a hassle. You just can't "tear" the parts away as fast as with the stronger foils. I would compare it to the films used in the thermo-print fax machines. I haven't seen thinner than 50, but would be willing to test them if they exist.
We press 17s and repress 2-3s and we also get that matte screen-print look.
Here's a shirt I made for a friend on Sunday, though its a cell phone pic and you can't really tell much.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

Fidel said:


> customers cannot tell the difference between screen/flex with this foil.


first off is this a foil vinyl or just regular vinyl?

second (as per your quote) what do customers really know about the difference between production methods? the fact is, we as the producers of such shirts do know the difference: that vinyl doesn't feel like screenprint.


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## Fidel (May 6, 2010)

Polyurethane flex film to be exact.
I'm not saying its the same or better than screen, otherwise my quote would've read "Not even producers can tell the difference.", my point was that the end user probably won't know the difference (as many don't know any production method anyways), but with thicker flex foils (the 80-100), some people don't like the feel. 
The major difference is that the thin ones tend to almost "melt into the fiber" and they don't make the shirt seem "heavier", whereas the thicker ones look and feel "glued to the surface", in layman terms.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

Ib4E said:


> Gotta love the fact it's a 4 second application time, Low temp (302) and it's hot peel! I also like working with it because the mylar carrier is tacky and helps with alignment, especially when working with multiple layers.


where did you get that info? you preheat the garment for 4 seconds. application time is at least 10 seconds.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

Fidel said:


> Polyurethane flex film to be exact.
> I'm not saying its the same or better than screen, otherwise my quote would've read "Not even producers can tell the difference.", my point was that the end user probably won't know the difference (as many don't know any production method anyways), but with thicker flex foils (the 80-100), some people don't like the feel.
> The major difference is that the thin ones tend to almost "melt into the fiber" and they don't make the shirt seem "heavier", whereas the thicker ones look and feel "glued to the surface", in layman terms.


i agree. sorry i got confused about your terminology with the word foil as most people use that to describe the flashy gold and silver decorative vinyls.

i wish that someone would come up with a product that would "melt into the fabric". plastisol transfers are the closest thing i've found but even their initial feel is kinda plasticky. after some washes they loosen up a bit. no matter what the vinyl still sits on top of the fabric.

although most customers don't know the production methods i still get cutomers that used print shirts as a kid etc. etc. and question what process i use when they feel the weight and gloss of vinyl.


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## Fidel (May 6, 2010)

You can also experiment with shirt material because I've heard (not tried) pressing the thin film to 50/50. 
I am also experimenting with various things, looking for the greatest feel. I'll update if I come up with something interesting


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## Nick Horvath (Feb 26, 2010)

Lately really thin films are all that are being produced and sold. Most of your new films that are being mfg are very thin and stretchable. My advice is to sample vendor's newest films and try them all. Heat apply them to all types of fabrics and wash. You will find something that you like.


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## drakesis (Apr 3, 2007)

These guys have some pretty good heat vinyl, their super flex feels alot like screenprinting, clients can't even tell the difference....

Flex Heat Transfer Vinyl Ltd. |


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

nick might know this: but isn't flex the same thing as videoflex or thermoflex? just another name to sold by different distributors?


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## GSDIESEL300 (Aug 4, 2010)

I ordered some Easyweed heat transfer vinyl the other day. Just received it yesterday. I've seen some people say they don't like it at all and some say that it's all they use. Hopefully it turns out good. What should I expect with this vinyl?


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## Fidel (May 6, 2010)

The most important detail when buying them is the thickness.
The title is secondary, I guess each manufacturer calls it whatever the want. I've seen Pro-, Supreme-, Superior-, Premium-, Sport-; -flex etc. It can be a little confusing for us. 
Like in the link that drakesis posted, it's a bit unfair that they don't have the thickness written anywhere. I wouldn't even buy from them because of this.

My table of thicknesses:
50-60µm - screenprint-like, very soft, a little more "fragile" when weeding, but not a hassle
70-90µm - the most used in IMO, a little cheaper, good qualities but thicker feel
100µm and up - used for jackets and other garments where durability is the main issue

A *micrometre* (*micrometer*; symbol *μm*; also known unofficially as a "micron") is one millionth of a metre, or equivalently one thousandth of a millimetre or one thousand nanometres. It can also be written in scientific notation as 1×10−6 m, meaning 1⁄1000000 m.
A strand of human hair is about 100 μm wide. Red blood cells are approx. 8 μm in diameter.


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## drakesis (Apr 3, 2007)

Fidel said:


> The most important detail when buying them is the thickness.
> The title is secondary, I guess each manufacturer calls it whatever the want. I've seen Pro-, Supreme-, Superior-, Premium-, Sport-; -flex etc. It can be a little confusing for us.
> Like in the link that drakesis posted, it's a bit unfair that they don't have the thickness written anywhere. I wouldn't even buy from them because of this.
> 
> ...


I only know of 1 company that lists the thickness and that is "specialty-graphics", hundreds of other suppliers do not list thickness even "Imprintables" doesn't....? Who do you order from?


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## Fidel (May 6, 2010)

Oh, I didn't realize that was the situation in the US/Can. All shops here and in Germany (where I buy some films) list the thicknesses. Even the catalogs I got at my local shop have the thickness listed with every product.
Another reason you need to know the thickness is that some specialty foils, like the cristal clear thermoflex I use is very thick (350µm) before pressing and you need a 60° knife, which is usually used for Flock films.
And last but not least, when I layer colors over each other, I can count the apprx. thickness before I do it.


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## pulsourbano (Mar 9, 2014)

i have used Stahls Fashion Film, very soft and thin!


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## mgtGrafix (Feb 24, 2014)

I use fashion film as well and like it also. Soft feel and easy to work with.

Sent from my SCH-i705 using T-Shirt Forums


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## djque (Feb 5, 2013)

this post is 4 years old so lots has changed from then to now. HTV is way different theres even some that feels better than screen print and some you cant even feel the design on the shirt. I sell way more HTV than silkscreen shirts but thats because I dont like the messy stuff of screening. If I have to screen I will just cut a stencil out of vinyl if they want true silkscreen. 

But most want a shirt thats go last and not crackup thats when I hit them with vinyl cause when they bring you a silkscreen shirt and say I dont want it to do this then you say vinyl is next in line or sublimation or dtg.


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## miktoxic (Feb 21, 2008)

vinyl cracks as well.

silkscreen is the best possible finish on a shirt you can get, especially waterbase or discharge.

imagine doing a 7 color vinyl print. you'd feel like you're wearing a trash bag.

dtg is too expensive and i don't know enough about sublimation to comment.

vinyl is great for selling novelty shirts with custom sayings on it w/text. if you had a store front or a kiosk at a mall a vinyl cutter and a laptop you can make some serious loot.

a friend got charged $60 down on the 'shore' for a line of text on front and back....2 shirts. c'mon.


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## ChemicaUS (Dec 13, 2013)

Each method has advantages and disadvantages. 
For a very large order, yes screen printing is a good way to go. For custom or short run shirts, or variable data jobs like league jerseys, heat transfer film is superb.
And, as DJQUE said above, there are many "HTV" films on the market these days that are extremely soft. Our HotMark and Quickflex are two polyurethane films that are quite soft and durable. 

Even among those, each had its advantages. HotMark comes in 50 colors and is a cold peel film. QuickFlex comes in 23 colors, but can be applied in 5 seconds and peeled hot for faster turnout of multiple shirt orders.


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## Dreamer 33 (Jan 26, 2014)

hello Vinyl from FDC is supper thin and very soft feel after completion, also inprintables has a line of alloy vinyl thats incredibly thin SPECTRA® Alloy Heat Transfer Vinyl - 19" | Imprintables Warehouse.

Much Luv!


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