# Do you "TWEAK" Photos Before Printing??



## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok I've got a million questions to ask you experts out there but I'll be nice and try to keep the questions to a minimum.

First off I want to say that I am by no means a photographer nor do I know anything about good/bad lighting. I know how to do a few "simple" things in photoshop, I played with the "curves" feature last night but not sure how or when to apply them to a photo. 

Now for my problem......

I made a few photo mugs last night that didn't turn out so great. The prints after subbing came out way lighter then when printed out on the sub paper. Yes I did use the correct side, correct temp, correct pressure (I'm using wraps), and the correct baking time (I have a convection oven).

I have made a few mugs and water bottles with customers logos and they all came out fine. Just my PHOTOS are looking kinda sad. 

So do you adjust the customer provided photos before printing? If so how or when do you know to adjust them lighten or darken ??

Here is the customers photo: DSC03904 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_3288 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This is what it looked liked after being printed:
Picture 296 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This is after being subbed:
Picture 294 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Picture 293 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Picture 292 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Notice how on the reef pictures with the poles, there are alot of white specks like in on the reef ?

Why is that I must be doing something wrong...

Here is the same pic no adjustments just like for the mug on a SS Travel mug that looks alright not great but just ok.

Picture 301 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! 


Here is a water bottle that was done that came out pretty good IMO.

photo 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
photo 3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
photo 4 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
photo 1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I need help I know But I just dont know what area I need it in. 

Please help me LOL !!

If you wanna see more pictures here is the link:


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

What printer
What ink
What ICC profile
What color management settings are you using


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## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

charles95405 said:


> What printer - _Epson WF1100_
> 
> What ink - _Cobra High Temp._
> 
> ...


 
_I dont remember 100% off the top of my head right now I'm at my real job right now so when I get to my shop later on this evening I will post screen shots. However I did get the setting from another thread in this forum. _

_Just out of curiosity will that make a difference in printing only photos? I ask because I did a waterbottle that had a photo and some vector art around it and that came out nice in my opinion. I think it was the last picture that I posted. _

_let me know please_

_thanks_
_Al _


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Before Richard at cobra ink was shut down ......probably...by sawgrass, he had an ICC Profile for the WF1100 and his hi temp ink....and I tested it w/o the ICC profile with lousy results on photos. With the profile it was better. Photos are a bit more difficult because of the gradients IMHO. I know sawgrass is more expensive, but I get consistent results ad charge accordingly. I will bet you will conyinue to have issues unless you get the ICC profile correct. Suggest you contact Richard to see if he will send to you. I am told that Cobra will no longer sell the hi-temp...which is probably dye sub ink from China


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## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

Could it be the mugs? Some of them have worse polymer coating than others and the prints may come out inconsistent, dull, etc.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

akam001 said:


> Ok I've got a million questions to ask you experts out there but I'll be nice and try to keep the questions to a minimum.
> 
> First off I want to say that I am by no means a photographer nor do I know anything about good/bad lighting. I know how to do a few "simple" things in photoshop, I played with the "curves" feature last night but not sure how or when to apply them to a photo.
> 
> ...


If your ICC profile was done correctly AND you are setting up your graphic application correctly to use that profile, then you would merely tweak specific photos on a case by case basis, not to correct for sublimation errors, but for normal photo adjustment.

If you intended to only print hardcopy photos on a printer using the manufacturers supplied inks then in theory you don't adjust for the photo for the shortcomings of the printer or it's inks ... you adjust to correct the photo. Some photos if taken correctly would not need _any_ adjustment, assuming no printer/ink errors.

Having said that you should _not_ use your customers photos to baseline your setup to. Either sublimation or any other inks.

Use this photo at this link here. It is your baseline, it is a perfect photo. 

http://www.gballard.net/dl/PDI_TargetFolderONLY.zip 

It must be used in the correct workspace to print correctly. This photo is designed to be used in "Adobe RGB 1998", in older versions of Corel Draw Adobe RGB 1998 is the same as "Fraser RGB 1998". Most of us sublimate using the "Adobe RGB 1998" workspace.

It would also be good to study Color managment fundamentals in general at the same website. Read the tutorials section.

GBALLARD.NET Web Site Design of Gary G. Ballard Commercial Photographer San Diego Multimedia Photo-Journalist Graphic Artist SEO Copywriting

Most customers photos are done in the "sRGB" workspace, sometimes called " sRGB IEC61966-2".

Most good digital cameras are set default to "sRGB" but can be changed to Adobe RGB 1998.

Your ink supplier that provides your sublimation profile should also provide setup info for various graphics programs and may advise how to handle profile mismatch.

Your 1st step is to get your sub profile setup and your graphic application. 

Once you have it as good as possible using the PDI target file in the link I provided ideally you would then only adjust photos that are taken poorly, but you won't know until you print AND heat transfer the PDI target file.

Others factors such as Temp, dwell time, and even paper matter for accurate color reproduction.

So start with the file I linked to and avoid customer photos that may or may not be done correctly in the first place.

In many cases you will still adjust your customers photos, but you shouldn't generally be adjusting to correct sublimation errors.

If you cannot get decent colors with the PDI file and you have optimized your workspace, then consider switching to a different ink vendor.

Other resources ...

Understanding ICC Color Profiles, Color Space and Color Gamut | LRi

SmugMug | sRGB vs Adobe 98 Colorspace

Keep in mind that even with a ICC profile sublimation will not generally be as accurate as regular photo printing, but if set correctly it and you have a good profile it should be decent. 

Getting precise accurate "spot colors" in a vectors file is a different issue, but start by learning how to get the most of bitmap photo printing first.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

Mike....very well stated!


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## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok here is the setting that I use. 

3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Sorry for all the links. I tried to upload pictures but it's telling me an error has occurred and I am missing some kind of token LOL.


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## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> If your ICC profile was done correctly AND you are setting up your graphic application correctly to use that profile, then you would merely tweak specific photos on a case by case basis, not to correct for sublimation errors, but for normal photo adjustment.
> 
> If you intended to only print hardcopy photos on a printer using the manufacturers supplied inks then in theory you don't adjust for the photo for the shortcomings of the printer or it's inks ... you adjust to correct the photo. Some photos if taken correctly would not need _any_ adjustment, assuming no printer/ink errors.
> 
> ...


 
Mike - Thank you for that. If I'm not mistaken I got the settings from one of the threads that you posted in awhile back when I first started printing transfers for shirts. 

It's funny when I print transfers I have no problems. I use the same settings, I do realize that they are different inks and that seems to be my problem. 

When I first started Sublimation about a month ago I loaded the ICC profiles from Cobra kept the settings the same tried to print the same picture as the one on the waterbottle with the vectors and it came out VERY VERY horrible..... I thought that it may have been the file or way that I made it so I tried to print a different vector file and same thing, colors were way way off. Then I switched back to srgb and it came out way better. 

I'll try with the file that you linked later on this evening and I'll report back..

Thank you


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## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

D.Evo. said:


> Could it be the mugs? Some of them have worse polymer coating than others and the prints may come out inconsistent, dull, etc.


 
_I don't think so I tried printing the same image on a waterbottle with the same results._


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

akam001 said:


> Ok here is the setting that I use.
> 
> 3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> ...


You have no sublimation profile in the AI printer settings. 

Also, if working in AI are all your vector objects (ie text) in RGB color or CMYK? Should be RGB colors set for all the objects in your design.

If you have Photoshop suggest to use it for photographic printing.


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## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

mgparrish said:


> You have no sublimation profile in the AI printer settings.
> 
> Also, if working in AI are all your vector objects (ie text) in RGB color or CMYK? Should be RGB colors set for all the objects in your design.
> 
> If you have Photoshop suggest to use it for photographic printing.


Where it says color handling I orginally used Cobra High Temp Profile but had very bad results then I read on this forum to use let illustrator choose and when I did that it worked way better.

All of my vectors along with photos are rgb. As for photoshop I have it, and I'll try to print and Sub with it to see what results I get. 

Just out of curiosity wouldn't Photoshop and Illy printout the same? I know photoshop has all of the tools to edit a photo can correct it where Illustrator doesn't have thoes features but I know my way around Illustrator way better then Photoshop dure to my FlexiSign program. 

BTW thank you for the help.

Al


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

akam001 said:


> Where it says color handling I orginally used Cobra High Temp Profile but had very bad results then I read on this forum to use let illustrator choose and when I did that it worked way better.
> 
> All of my vectors along with photos are rgb. As for photoshop I have it, and I'll try to print and Sub with it to see what results I get.
> 
> ...


I have AI on my home computer so I will check for that and let you know later when I am at home. AI will control the colors but it need to pass through the sublimation profile.

Use PS for now for troubleshooting your setup. AI is more complex.


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## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

If you want to do sublimation.....bite the bullet...get Sublijet ink from Conde ..it will come with ICC profile you need....I pay the price...charge accordingly...my customers are happy...I am happy.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

akam001 said:


> Where it says color handling I orginally used Cobra High Temp Profile but had very bad results then I read on this forum to use let illustrator choose and when I did that it worked way better.
> 
> All of my vectors along with photos are rgb. As for photoshop I have it, and I'll try to print and Sub with it to see what results I get.
> 
> ...


I don't sublimate from AI but the settings are nearly identical to PS. When you let AI manage colors you should be able to find your profile name in the drop down box as seen in the 3rd screen. Your WF1100 setttings were OK for tshirt sublimating.


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## akam001 (Nov 8, 2011)

charles95405 said:


> If you want to do sublimation.....bite the bullet...get Sublijet ink from Conde ..it will come with ICC profile you need....I pay the price...charge accordingly...my customers are happy...I am happy.


 
Thanks but I don't think so not anytime soon... With the cost of stuff around here if I go that route I'm not gonna get any sales. I have to sell one mug for $15.00 as it is already and I'm getting turned down left and right by people telling me they can get personalized mugs, waterbottles and mousepads from walmart way cheaper. I have a thread about this statement on another fourm. My cost on a 11oz. mug is anywhere from $5.00-5.50 depending wher I get it from compared to the $2.00-2.50 that you folks can get them for. Its the shipping to here that kills me.


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## mn shutterbug (Mar 19, 2009)

The little bit of ink required for mugs is not an issue. If you get ink for 1/2 the price of Sublijet, you'll save a whopping 15c on the average. Not worth the headaches to try and save a few pennies.

Not to brag, but I'm a photographer and have printed mugs for a photographer in Alaska, and the photos on my mugs come out beautifully. I've had nothing but compliments from my customers. Spending an extra 15c is well worth it.


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## pisquee (Jan 8, 2012)

Do an internet search (maybe even ebay), and find a company that makes custom ICC profiles. Get one made, and it'll be specific to these inks and your printer, transfer paper etc. Will give you way better results than a generic profile from a manufacturer.


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