# Legalities of selling T-shirts [CANADA]



## boyracerclothing (Jun 12, 2008)

Hey everyone, 

I just had a question. I'm going to be getting into the t-shirt business. I've already come up with some designs etc... I've bought some equipment aswell. My question is:

Before I register my company name, and trademark the logo/name, can I sell t-shirts under that name with the logo without trademarking? I wanna see how I do before I actually spend the money to go through all the legalities. Could I get sued/charged if someone else already has the name trademarked?

Basically I wanna decided if this business is good for me and see if people actually like my products before owning a full blown company.

Any opinions will be greatly appriciated!

Thanks!


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*

hey Alan-

Yes.

though i'd definitely google your desired name, i do not believe you will need to have a registered trademark in order to operate. check with your local dmv about acquiring a resale tax id. that's all we needed to get going. that and a good accountant.

the trademark is there to protect your name from potential thieves who wish to capitalize on your marketing/ branding efforts. it is a legal strongarm, if you will, to protect your name or other element that has potential to be lifted.

you won't get sued off the bat. but if another company that has a very similar name in the same field finds you they may send a "cease and desist" letter, informing you of their existence, and that's when you'd want to change the name.

i hope this info is helpful.

derek


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*

you can start using TM beside your logo, etc. Once it's registered and approved you can put (R) standing for "registered trademark" in place of the TM.


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## boyracerclothing (Jun 12, 2008)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*

hey, thanks for the replies.

Printchic, I can use TM beside the logo even though I haven't gone through any effort to even attempt to TM it yet?

Also I forgot to mention that I live in Ontario, Canada. So if anyone has experience with canadian laws that would be great too! 

Thanks


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## jdarracott (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*

These people are wrong... TM means that the trademark application has been filed but not approved. When the application is approved and registered, then you apply the R with the circle ( registered trademark )! Besides, if you are wanting to protect a t-shirt design - this can be done
with a copyright. Copyrights protect original works of art - all U.S. law. You need to check out Canada's laws.


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## boyracerclothing (Jun 12, 2008)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*

ok, I understand in order to protect my name I must TM it. 

But my main question is:

In order to start selling T-shirt to people (other than friends/family etc..) do I have to register a business name, get a vendors permit, get a purchase exemption certificate (PEC), and attemp to TM my name/logo?

Is there no way someone can just "test the water" before spending the time and money into something when they are uncertain if people will like their product, or if it's the right business for them?

My situation is this, I already have some great ideas, people have complimented me with some of my "test" products. I've purchased equipment, and even materials needed to start making a small inventory. I even purchase a domian name.
I would like to start advertising, and marketing, to get my products out there. Get my website going with my product for sale on it. However, I just didn' want to go through all the legalities and "own" a company if I'm not completely sure if this is something I will stick with. If I started to do really well and it was in my best interest to make it a full time operation then I would definitely do it. But is it nessessary in the beginning stages?

Sorry to rant, but I've done alot of research and still can't seem to find too much on how to "test the water".

Thanks


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## jdarracott (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*

Yes there is... where are you?


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*



jdarracott said:


> These people are wrong...


I don't believe i was wrong when i answered the poster's initial 2 questions. 

I do, however, agree with you on your explanation of the use of TM and R, respectively.

Trademark and Copyright laws can get very confusing. the basic rule of thumb, is that you would trademark your company name, logo, and branding efforts, and some of those images may qualify for copyright protection, as copyrights are used to protect “original works of authorship.” or, your t-shirt design, as Johnny stated.

for more information on trademark law visit USPTO

for more information on copyright law visit the US Copyright Office

I'm sure both sites will lead you to the proper place to discuss Canadian policies.

derek


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*



boyracerclothing said:


> In order to start selling T-shirt to people (other than friends/family etc..) do I have to register a business name, get a vendors permit, get a purchase exemption certificate (PEC), and attemp to TM my name/logo?


Canadian Laws most likely differ than US Laws, so the steps we took may be quite different than the ones you will have to. 

One thing i may suggest is talking to your local college and see if they can help you in their business department. Our local college here reviews business plans, makes suggestions, and is altogether extremely informative in this respect. could be a good step.

another idea would be to simply speak with a business owner in your community and ask him/her what steps they had to take.

derek


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## littleoddity (Aug 15, 2007)

My understanding(from 'The Canadian Small Business Kit For Dummies' book) is you don't need to register a trademark if you don't want to, but not doing it leaves you open for someone else registering it and taking your name. It also says you can use the 'TM' without registering but that will only protect you in your local area. If you decide you want national protection you need to register, and you'll need to register in each country you want to be protected in.

You probably still need to register your business though to get a PST number and resellers permit(I haven't gotten that far in my own research yet, but I think you'll need that)

Again, that's just my understanding of what I've read... but I don't think it's a case of someone hunting you down and hauling you to jail because you haven't registered your trademark. Just make sure no one else has.

russ

*edit: you can read more than you'll ever want to know about canadian trademarks here... Canadian Intellectual Property Office - Home


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*



jdarracott said:


> These people are wrong... TM means that the trademark application has been filed but not approved. .


Sorry you are wrong...

You can use TM beside something you wish to trademark to put the public on notice you claim ownership of the mark.

Just like you can put (c) beside something you design to indicate it's copyrighted but you don't have to 'register it'.

It would however make sense to register a trademark because if you don't and someone infringes on it you can't do much legally to the violator.

Once the application is approved/registered you can then begin using the (R) in the circle mark.

Supporting Info taken from the trademark site;

*Do I have to register my trademark?*
No, but federal registration has several advantages, including notice to the public of the registrant's claim of ownership of the mark, a legal presumption of ownership nationwide, and the exclusive right to use the mark on or in connection with the goods or services set forth in the registration.

(taken from other source)

*Do I need to register my trademark with the PTO? *
No. You should use the "TM" or "SM' designation to indicate that your brand name/slogan belongs to you. The use of TM is a way of informing the world that you have (or you think you have) a protectable trademark. 

--

I don't know the rules in canada or other countries you'll have to check


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## boyracerclothing (Jun 12, 2008)

ok I've done much more research and I think I've figured it out.

In order to sell anything in canada, (lets use T-shirts), you need to register you business name. This can be done for $60 CND and $12 CND for a name search to ensure the name is not taken. This can be done online at www.mgs.gov.ca , at an business registration office, or and many workstations around Canada. If you do it during business hours you get you registration certificate immediately. If it's after hours you must wait 2 weeks.
At the same time as you apply for the name registration, you can apply for a vendors permit. This allows you to sell products legally in Canada and allows you to claim tax (RST) on these products (Which must be paid back to the government). The vendors permit is free.

And that my friends, is all you need to register a business and start selling t-shirts (products) legally in Canada. It will cost you a wopping $72 CND!

Now of course if you start getting into trademarking, copyrighting etc... it's going to cost you much more, be much more complicated, and take much longer.

Hope this info will help other Canadians! (Ontario specifically).


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## darwinchristian (Aug 24, 2007)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*



printchic said:


> *Do I have to register my trademark?*
> No, but federal registration has several advantages, including notice to the public of the registrant's claim of ownership of the mark, a legal presumption of ownership nationwide, and the exclusive right to use the mark on or in connection with the goods or services set forth in the registration.
> 
> (taken from other source)


good looks Angela. i had no idea. where did you source this from? 

i'd certainly be interested in finding out how strong "TM" usage holds up when contesting a name or some other branding effort. (for instance if you could prove usage dating back further than the person you are contending...) 

it seems people would use the mark for a reason. i always figured you needed to have money down to use such a mark. 

good thread.

derek


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## printchic (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: Legalities of selling T-shirts*



darwinchristian said:


> good looks Angela. i had no idea. where did you source this from?
> 
> i'd certainly be interested in finding out how strong "TM" usage holds up when contesting a name or some other branding effort. (for instance if you could prove usage dating back further than the person you are contending...)




the first source came directly from the Trademark office site.

The other source (2nd source shown in my post) I found it from here;
TM-It - FAQ on Trademark (TM) Search and Register

Here's other place that also support it that you can use TM before your apply for a mark;

Should You Register Your Mark? - Small Business

See paragraph #2.

Also here;

Do You Need A Trademark?
(see paragraph 2nd paragraph under the question When may I use the trademark symbols TM, SM and ®? )

Any one more place;

Trademark Edge

Hope this helps.


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## BOUNCEATHLETICS (Jul 15, 2008)

Hi everyone, this is my first post so bare with me We are in Ontario and have been in business for about 5 years now, but the apparel business for just under 2.
Here's some info on Canadian laws, hope it helps.
You can sell merchandise in Canada without officially registering a business name. How do you do this? You simply run your business under your legal given name. If you run your business under your name you don't have to register it. So if you receive any cheques they have to be made out to you. If you don't want to use your name you can register it online for about $65. You'll have to keep all records of your sales for accounting purposes which is done much easier if you register your business and keep everything separate.
For trademarks, in Canada you can add the TM beside your intended logo and don't have to register it as a trademark if you don't want to right away. If you come across a problem of trademark copyright in the future you must keep copies of every time you used the TM with the logo or design to prove you did it first. Once you are ready to legally trademark it, then yes you can put the R after it so its now a registered trademark.
Hope this helps!!!

Shannon


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