# How many shirts should I buy?



## ISHUES Clothing (Apr 26, 2011)

Hello Community,

I'm of the company ISHUES Clothing and we are about to order our first shipments from all the different dealers we are talking to. But, we are still weary about the numbers.

We are a streetwear company, and we decided for our launch, 4 designs (all very different) would be a good starting point. We want to get to the status of WeSC or OBEY, possibly BBC Ice Cream or Bape (what it used to be) and we want to sell mainly online, and have some local retailers carry us.

We have printed a sample for ourselves, just to test the designs and logo, and there was an amazing response. But, now that we are severely upping the quality, and adding a print to the inside, as well as a woven label to the exterior of each shirt, our price has skyrocketed to about 12$ per shirt for the quality we want with the extras we want.

The question I have now is how many to get? We have the four designs, but need guidance on the sizes, white to black ratio of the base shirts, and how many small retailers usually buy for their stock. Anyone have experience in something similar to this?

Thanks,

ISHUES Clothing


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

To get to the level of those brands will take big marketing dollars and maybe even a celeb endorsement. What kind of marketing plan do you have in place?

Obviously, it's great to have a quality product with all the bells and whistles. But right now, your costs are way too high. At what price are you expecting to retail your shirts for? What is your wholesale price? Unless you have the right marketing in place, you need to keep your prices somewhat modest as a new brand. Try to get your costs down, keep your prices down and get your shirts out there. Once you establish some cash flow, you can upgrade quality, raise prices, etc.

You should get as many shirts as you can afford. The more you get, the less expensive each will be. Of course, the more you get, the more inventory you will have. So just try to find the best balance.

A basic size ratio is 1-2-2-1 for S-XL. But it also depends on your target market. Black shirts usually sell more than white. But again, it also depends on your target market.

Small retailers may pick up a dozen or two to test the market since you are a new brand. But at your current production costs, you may be pricing yourself out of the wholesale market. Retailers will double the wholesale cost to meet their typical margins.


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## ISHUES Clothing (Apr 26, 2011)

we want a shirt to retail at 40$, wholesale at 18-20 depending on quantity. This is what ive found to be the basic t shirt enthusiast price. other shirts of our demographic, the SHRED Nation, buy t shirts for 80-120 dollars, only because it has the name. I realize we dont have the name yet, but I dont want to release lower quality and be defined as such right off the bat. As soon as we have a sample, we will assemble a look book for buyers at retailers and spark as much interest as we can until we place an actual order. We will try to get orders from multiple stores all around CT, and NY if we need. We have connects in LA as well. Once we have product for ourselves and surplus, we will release our official web site, and network ourselves to dozens of sites, t shirt blogs, friends sites, other similar companies sites, and try to get as many views on our page as possible which will result in sales. We dont have money for ads, but free social networking advertising is whats the big thing right now. also, having a product with the quality were going for, i dont see really any risk of losing money in a 5,000$ investment because it in time will sell, if not for 40, for 30, or maybe less if after a few months weve sold a surprisingly low number like 2.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

As a new brand, you're probably going to find that you are pricing yourself out of both the retail and wholesale markets.

Basic t-shirt enthusiasts are not spending $40 on a t-shirt. Fashion enthusiasts may be spending those dollars, but not the basic consumer.

Yes, there are plenty of brands that are retailing for much higher than the $40 you are targeting. But what do you think the wholesale price of those shirts are? Not only do those brands have big marketing budgets, but they offer much higher profit margins to the retailers. Right now, your numbers do not compete at that level. You are offering 50% margins against competition who are offering 75-90% margins. Not to mention, many of the popular brands have minimum orders and some even have buy-ins. So for a retailer that has thousands of dollars worth of inventory invested in a known brand with the intention of getting a 75% profit margin, what is their incentive to give retail space to your unknown brand and smaller margins?

Don't mean to come off like a jerk, just trying to help you see the other side of it. I don't expect you to follow this advice, but it would probably help to drop your costs and get your product out there at more modest price points. You can always upgrade the quality and prices as you increase and improve your marketing, sales and distribution.


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## ISHUES Clothing (Apr 26, 2011)

I do see what youre saying and it makes sense. I prefer to be told how it is like youre doing rather than someone kitty-footing around the point, and for that I thank you.

Therefore, I will pose this scenario. We drop our cost per shirt from 12 to 7. We sell wholesale for 10 and retail for 30 and possibly even the 40 we originally wanted if the store feels ballsy enough. this will get shirts on retailers shelves and give us the essentially free capitol by being the middle man.

The only thing we dont want to see happen is we get locked into agreements and gain a following (however large or small) and then we go to try and raise/change the quality and we dont sell anything. Theres not too much out there about starting a high fashion streetwear brand name, more about just simple t shirt companies that sell because of funny or pop culture references that sell not because of the name on the tag. We eventually want to get into hoodies, pants and finally shoes and with the designs and quality were going for its gonna have to be more expensive. 

We dont want to get locked into a low quality cheap price cycle. We want people to buy ISHUES Clothing because if you dont wear ISHUES Clothing you are a nobody. We have it in our product description that we put the tag on the outside of the shirt because we are a designer brand, and if youre wearing it, you want people to know it! If that means celeb endorsement, or large ad campaigns, well do it. the problem is getting there, and i dont know if lowering quality is the answer because thats the main selling point.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ISHUES Clothing said:


> Theres not too much out there about starting a high fashion streetwear brand name


Launching a fashion brand comes down to one thing... Distribution.

If you do not already have the distribution connections to get your product into major stores, then you are probably not going to be able to *start* as a high fashion brand. Instead, you are going to have to grow into it.

You say you want to eventually have more products. But right now, you don't. Just like you don't have a following yet. So don't pretend to be something you're not. And if that means starting as ISHUES Clothing and then launching ISHUES Select when you are ready to use custom spec blanks, hoodies and jeans, then so be it.

Don't worry about launching the perfect brand right from the start. Stack the odds in your favor based on what you can do right now. Adjusting as you go is a big part of this business.



ISHUES Clothing said:


> with the designs and quality were going for its gonna have to be more expensive.


Why does it have to be more expensive? Because of your costs? Because of what these other brands are selling for?

You are attaching a price tag to your product based on your own needs, wants and expectations rather than allowing the market to set your price based on supply and demand.

High prices are NOT set by the manufacturer. They are set by the retailers based on their retail power in the marketplace. That's why you see the same Affliction shirt for $90 in MetroPark that you see for $60 in Nordstroms and $30 in JC Penney. The wholesale price is probably $10-15 but the markup is different based on the retailer and market.

Here's something else to consider about costs and pricing...
The high fashion brands on the market are probably producing their shirts for half (maybe even a third) of what your costs are. That's not because your shirts are better quality. It's because you are paying premium costs due to low volume. Their superior quality is dirt cheap to produce based on their huge volume which is supported by their major distribution channels.

It is a common misconception to automatically associate high costs with high quality and high prices. Costs are very often determined by volume. And retail prices are determined by supply, demand and most importantly, the market power of the retailer. So don't make the mistake of believing your prices should be determined by your costs, because your costs may be artificially inflated based on low volume.


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## ISHUES Clothing (Apr 26, 2011)

EDIT: you know, i just realized that you did address the initial question in an earlier reply. Thanks again!

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and respond thoughtfully. I really am grateful for people like you who have an amazing wealth of knowledge in the field and on top of that, like to help others!

So, to summarize what I think you're saying is that we should spend what we think is a fair price for our costs, which is not too high, but not to sacrifice too much quality by doing so. Then, as we wholesale, take less profit for ourselves, thus allowing the retailer to choose the price based solely on what people are willing to spend. And we really can't know what that number is until we're in stores. For example, spend 6-7$ to make each shirt, sell it wholesale for 9-10, and let them price it how they think it will sell, be it anywhere from 12-40. 

I think we can live with that for the time being as I still see wholesale as almost free money, making us just a middle man. Really the only way to start is slow and steady.

But I still kind of have my original question of how many to buy if any to start as we have all the manufacturers and printer lined up... or does the buying come after we have buyer interest, and our making of the shirts are based off of that interest/order?


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## michellefanfan (Oct 26, 2009)

ISHUES Clothing said:


> We are a streetwear company, and we decided for our launch, 4 designs (all very different) would be a good starting point. We want to get to the status of WeSC or OBEY, possibly BBC Ice Cream or Bape (what it used to be) and we want to sell mainly online, and have some local retailers carry us.
> 
> We have printed a sample for ourselves, just to test the designs and logo, and there was an amazing response. But, now that we are severely upping the quality, and adding a print to the inside, as well as a woven label to the exterior of each shirt, our price has skyrocketed to about 12$ per shirt for the quality we want with the extras we want.
> 
> The question I have now is how many to get? We have the four designs, but need guidance on the sizes, white to black ratio of the base shirts, and how many small retailers usually buy for their stock. Anyone have experience in something similar to this?


Hi,

First of all, i am not sharing the experiences of mine but one of my friends. 

Last year, they launched out about 8-9 different logo designs, each logo design order 150-200pcs both for women and men, the total order quantity came up to 2000pcs. So far, after a year, they sold half of the quantities, and now they will launch out 5-6 different logo designs, but the order quantity became to 1200pcs. Their size range for men is S to 2XL, and order more for size S, and less for a each size bigger. Such as they order 35pcs for S, 25pcs for L, and 2XL is 10pcs only. Women size from XS to XL. They do have other online retailers to carry their tees and sell. Normally, the retailers share the sell percentage from each order, don't buy them in and resell. By the way, the target market for my friends is Europe and Middle East.

That was my friend's biz plan, hope they will have some reference to yours. To keep from too many inventory, imo, it will be wise to order as small as enough to test the market like you printed some samples out to test. Best luck.

Bill


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

ISHUES Clothing said:


> But I still kind of have my original question of how many to buy if any to start as we have all the manufacturers and printer lined up... or does the buying come after we have buyer interest, and our making of the shirts are based off of that interest/order?


There really is no right or wrong answer.

But you will need samples to show owners and buyers of retail stores when you meet with them to pitch your brand. So it's probably a good idea to get a few dozen of each design.

Does your blank supplier or screen printer have a minimum order policy? That will also help to determine what you should order up front.


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## rawbhaze (Jan 29, 2011)

I addressed this in another thread of yours, ISHUES Clothing, dunno if you saw it or not.

Your initial order should only reflect what you need for samples and photo shoots.

Selling to a retailer is not the same experience that what everyone is familiar with as the end client buying from a retailer. You are not expected to supply the goods immediately upon payment.

First you need to establish what your minimum order is. This is usually either a dollar amount, quantity amount or a combination of both. Once you obtain some muscle in the marketplace you will be able to place stipulations beyond that, should you choose to do so.

Next you need to establish your terms of payment. Typically you would receive a percentage of the total order up front. You then take this money and do whatever it is you need to do to get your product manufactured and to the client. The remainder of the balance would usually be paid on a net30 or net60.

Your minimum order should be firm. The terms of payment is something that can be used for negotiating if your margin allows. Terms of payment may also be used as incentive and structured in such as away that the retailer is "rewarded" for paying sooner rather than later. Always use a verbiage with the retailer that implies rewarding rapid payment rather than penalizing slow payment.  

This is all generally speaking advice. Every situation will be unique until your clothing is in demand.


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