# Mug Sublimation Alternative



## sublimebiz (Jan 4, 2013)

First of all, thanks to this web support community. It has inspired me to get into sublimation of mugs. I have successfully started printing on mugs very crisp, very nice quality mugs.... having fun while at it. 

Question: 
Are there alternatives to mug sublimation especially if it doesn't require images? Asking only because i see some promo finished mugs have a different look and feel, as if it is painted and then done in a wrap in an oven. What is this special type of ink that stands out on a mug? like a coat of its own?

I would like to try this out as well. Can anyone chime in? 

Thanks & regards, 

john.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Pad printing, screen printing, UV printing... mugs can use a lot of different techniques. These printers are expensive, but when done in quantity allow for very cheap production. The promotional printing biz do these by the thousands.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Coastal Business Supplies, and other providers sell Laser paper that you can use to print your images on. Of course you'll need a color laser printer too.

Forgot to mention, Coastal calls their laser paper, Mugs N' More.


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## nccreations01 (Apr 28, 2013)

i think you can do ink jet transfer too, but there is an extra step involved compared to subliminating it. also the laser paper i seen is cheaper than inkjet.


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## captainkbt (Mar 3, 2013)

selanac said:


> Coastal Business Supplies, and other providers sell Laser paper that you can use to print your images on. Of course you'll need a color laser printer too.
> 
> Forgot to mention, Coastal calls their laser paper, Mugs N' More.


Is that the laser toner decal and then fire process?


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## bratdawg (Jul 17, 2012)

Although it is possible to do mugs with CLTT (Color Laser Toner Transfer), it generally works best on matte finish mugs. The good news is a lower cost for mugs since they are not coated for sublimation, but it does require an additional step to cure the mugs after pressing.

For those that have the equipment, kiln fired mugs are certainly another method and the most durable.

Steve


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## captainkbt (Mar 3, 2013)

bratdawg said:


> Although it is possible to do mugs with CLTT (Color Laser Toner Transfer), it generally works best on matte finish mugs. The good news is a lower cost for mugs since they are not coated for sublimation, but it does require an additional step to cure the mugs after pressing.
> 
> For those that have the equipment, kiln fired mugs are certainly another method and the most durable.
> 
> Steve


I have researched this method a bit. I like it because the transfer after firing is much more durable for outside applications. But my understanding is that the color toner is a special formula developed by a German company and only one company here has rights to distribute it and it is very expensive.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

captainkbt said:


> I have researched this method a bit. I like it because the transfer after firing is much more durable for outside applications. But my understanding is that the color toner is a special formula developed by a German company and only one company here has rights to distribute it and it is very expensive.


Actually there are 2 different and unrelated processes with laser toner.

The least expensive but least durable is to use conventional laser toner and "hardgoods" paper which release only the toner. The toner is nothing special, it's the toner that comes with the laser printer. It can heat transfer using the same heat press/wrap equipment as sublimation inkjet.

The other method is using either copier or laser toner but that toner is special and made especially for decal kiln firing applications. 

Also, the German company is not the only provider of "ceramic toner". There are 2 other vendors selling into the US market currently, I have visited one myself personally.

A very informative posting on this subject can be found here ...

DSSI


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## captainkbt (Mar 3, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> The other method is using either copier or laser toner but that toner is special and made especially for decal kiln firing applications.
> 
> Also, the German company is not the only provider of "ceramic toner". There are 2 other vendors selling into the US market currently, I have visited one myself personally.
> 
> ...


Yes, Ive read up on this extensively for several days a while back. When I want to do something I am a research maniac. 

I wanted to pursue the fired method due to a niche market in my contacts that I have discovered that required more durable ceramic products including outdoors.

I kept coming up empty and from what I learned, is that this German Co only lets one US company distribute this COLOR ceramic laser toner formulated specifically for this "fired on" process. And you can either buy the whole set up, printer (Ricoh) and toner, or rent the whole set up. Seems a bit cost prohibitive for me at this time. But Im really interested in it.

I also believe that some black toner has enough iron oxide in it to fire an image from a decal. Maybe its older black toner, I dont know. But, my understanding is that the black toner with enough iron oxide is available so there are good opportunities to use this method with a cheap black laser printer and decal. Where the color toner is not. The black toner only would be a start, I guess.

BTW, your link didnt work. But thanks as always for the informative dialogue.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

captainkbt said:


> Yes, Ive read up on this extensively for several days a while back. When I want to do something I am a research maniac.
> 
> I wanted to pursue the fired method due to a niche market in my contacts that I have discovered that required more durable ceramic products including outdoors.
> 
> ...


Link works fine, I just tested. 

Here is another vendor that has the systems and competes with the US company selling ceramic toner.

http://ceramicdecalprinters.com/

I have seen some older lasers use the OEM black toner kiln fired but ends up looking "sephia", not sure if it is good outdoors though.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I too would recommend ceramic-based over polymer-based toners for mugs, but I've had surprisingly good results on glossy mugs and ordinary (but thick) glassware using a paper like Mugs & More. The trick is to "glaze" the mug or glass afterward. This is not a chemical glazing, but solely with heat. 

After transferring, allow to cool, then reheat from the bottom of the mug or glass. Unlike the transfer step, don't heat the image area directly. Hix and others sell an expensive mug glazing machine, but I just put mine on a skillet or electric waffle iron.

I did dishwasher and fingernail tests (one glass I regularly use has been washed 25+ times by now and is in perfect shape), and wI as surprised it's harder to scrape off than I thought. The process is best suited for commemorative wedding, anniversary, and similar items. Much cheaper than sublimation blanks. If you wreck a transfer, just remove it with acetone, and try again.

When doing glasses, you need to find glassware that will withstand the heat, and of course have relatively straight sides. I've found some good short and tall tumblers at Dollar Tree, a dollar-only store that's in some parts of the US. I've only cracked one, out of several dozen.


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## Rhondalea (Jul 29, 2008)

What is the process for this method? Do you print to laser film, then press in your regular mug press? I have a convection curing oven for my pad printing. Would that work for the heating process? What are the differences in the toners you mentioned? It's an interesting subject!


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

Rhondalea said:


> What is the process for this method? Do you print to laser film, then press in your regular mug press? I have a convection curing oven for my pad printing. Would that work for the heating process? What are the differences in the toners you mentioned? It's an interesting subject!


The kiln fired process using ceramic toner runs $10K to $20K for startup.

The OEM toner process uses regular laser toner and a release paper that only leaves toner after transfer.

The thread located here is probably the most comprehensive detail on the subject ...

DSSI

As Steve mentioned a few posts up the matte mugs work best for durablilty.

A photo of a finished matte mug is attached, Cactus sent me the mug maybe back in '05.

One thing to watch for is if your laser has any "background" which is where stray toner can pick up in the open space in the design area.


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## captainkbt (Mar 3, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> Link works fine, I just tested.
> 
> Here is another vendor that has the systems and competes with the US company selling ceramic toner.
> 
> ...


Yes, the link works now. When I clicked on it the other day it had an "error on page" message. But anyway, thanks for the info. I may look into other cheaper methods that you and Gordon were talking about. I just cant afford the start up costs associated with the fired ceramic color toner.


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## tomwalker55 (Feb 6, 2013)

Here is "the Report" from a newbie's early experiments:

I have had some minor good results with dye sub. I am using cheap asian inks and still getting good results by playing a bit before printing, but I am not doing color-critical work like photos. The finish is really great, but the color can be wonky and tricky. (There are no ICC profiles, etc). This was truly a budget set up, with a small WF2540 Epson, blank cartridges and cheap ink. Less than $200 total for printer and a cheap press for less than $100. It is productive and gets good results when I plan images properly.

But it is limited by color control issues... Good for designs, bad for photos.

I tried the mugs n more laser paper in an Oki and it worked well but the surface came out splotchy / uneven and it was very touchy. In press too long, and the paper bonded right into the surface of the mug, ruining everything, and if not in long enough it would not bond. Not good for a noob on a cheap press. There were a number of times where I got BOTH problems - the design peeling off AND the paper bonding into the surface. The best result timing and temp formula was very different from recommendations and different mugs required very different treatments.

I tried paropy hard surface laser paper but that will not do well in an Oki - 'floating' black toner settles in blank areas in Okis and leaves a residue on blank areas. Otherwise good results.

Without paying a fortune to start up, what else is out there to get spot-on photo-quality results? 

+++ 

On another tack, who in the heck can pay for the expensive inks when you are starting up? $600+ for some ink is just other worldly. If you are just starting and trying to sell online without a pre-built buying audience, you either have to be really good at sales or have a wad of cash! I am thankful I have gotten good results by experimenting with cheap ink - I just have to know the limits.

+++

Mugs into water right after printing has cracked a few mugs. I don't care that they are 'cheap' if the only place they can fail is in production, so I am working out a way to cool quickly without breaking them.

The answer is to use a fine mist spray bottle, lightly.

Peel off the paper and mist the design area. This steams the water but will not crack the mug, and it rapidly drops the temp on the design. (Which is the point.)

Then let it air cool while you press another mug and then if you need it really cool I guess you could dunk it. The spray bottle takes a couple of seconds, and if you needed to get to a dry mug you can handle quickly, I suppose you could turn the mug upside down (no water in the mug) and mist it for a little bit. It would not be very wet - it will heat dry itself. Just don't steam your hand.

;-)


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## captainkbt (Mar 3, 2013)

tomwalker55 said:


> Here is "the Report" from a newbie's early experiments:
> 
> Mugs into water right after printing has cracked a few mugs. I don't care that they are 'cheap' if the only place they can fail is in production, so I am working out a way to cool quickly without breaking them.
> 
> ...


 
I use a warm to hot water bath afterwards. Let them sit for about 5 mins in the hot water doesnt bring them down so fast they crack. Havent had one crack yet.


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## Brian (May 18, 2007)

I also use this process.Firstly "Mugs'N'More transfer paper sticks to my Oki fuser unit. I use about a 1/8" strip of Scotch tape on the leading edge of paper. It works, no more sticking to fuser. Next, I use mugs bought from China but lately the image peels off the mug when removing paper. No solution to this yet(just use a different mug).Could a different temp/pressure combination help?
I need to find a reasonably cheap source of non sublimated mugs. Any suggestions?


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