# Equipment Total Cost of Ownership / Startup Cost



## woohooligan (Feb 18, 2010)

Hi all, my first post.  

I'm a cartoonist. You can check out some of my work on DeviantArt here: smolderingremains's Gallery

The short question is this: without going to either silk-screen or heat-transfers, what's the least expensive way to purchase all the equipment I would need to print my own full-color shirts, preferably either using dye-sub or DTG? Printer, ink and heat press if necessary. (Did I leave anything out?) And should I be wary of purchasing used equipment or is it generally okay? 

(I'm also confused by use of the terms "heat transfer" (iron-on?) and "dye sub" -- some articles seem to indicate they're the same thing and other articles seem to indicate they're different.) 

The reason I'm asking is because I've been having some difficulty finding a decent quote for a print run of T-shirts to take to local sci-fi/fantasy conventions here in the Dallas / Ft Worth area. Amidst looking for people who might be able to print for me, I came across a "tutorial" on starting a dye-sub business which, after I ran the numbers, seemed to suggest that I could purchase the equipment to do it myself for not much more than the cost of a single 100-shirt print run through an established printer. When I added it up, I could get the printer, the press and the ink for somewhere around $600 if I got the right items on Ebay - but then the big question is am I going to run into problems with that equipment that could prevent me from actually printing the shirts? 

Personally I'd prefer a digital-to-garment printer, but I don't think I'll be able to afford one initially. 

Thanks guys!


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## Swagger11 (Jun 24, 2008)

woohooligan said:


> Hi all, my first post.
> 
> I'm a cartoonist. You can check out some of my work on DeviantArt here: smolderingremains's Gallery
> 
> ...


Hello woohooligan, and welcome to the forums first and foremost. I would suggest you start by reading http://www.t-shirtforums.com/general-t-shirt-selling-discussion/t37985.html

Which is a breakdown on each printing style and the pros and cons. And this will explain the difference between Dye sub and heat transfers for you.


Just remember if you choose to Dye sub shirts it can only be done on 100% poly shirts (no Cotton). And although you stated that you may have found equipment for $600 dont forget the cost of blank shirts. If your on a budget then forget about getting any DTG equipment it is very high priced. I say the cheapest route would be "inkjet tranfers" in which you just need a decent printer, some tranfer paper and a heat press and your set! Not to steer you away from printing your own but your best bet may still be getting it outsourced depending on price and what you wanna spend.


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## bluegraphica (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi! Ike, how much are they charging you for a t-shirt?...what colors do you prefer on the t-shirt, what type of t-shirt do you prefer.

Let me know, Hopefully we can hep you.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

A decade ago, I tried my hand at sublimation. Mugs & shirts but it never worked for me. I'm too much into embroidery. If you want an Epson 3000 or a mug press - hardly used - they are for sale. 
My gut tells me that you should contract out for a while. Then decide if you what to print in house. Quality eqipment is not cheap.


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## Tijeras (Jul 3, 2008)

JAF said:


> A . If you want an Epson 3000 or a mug press - hardly used - they are for sale.
> 
> HOw much for the epson and ink
> please include shipping price to zip 30096


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I would need to get out the original box and weight it, to give you shipping costs. There are no inks. I removed the sublimation ink a few years back, purged the system, and covered it up.


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## woohooligan (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks John! I'd been looking for some kind of breakdown of printing methods like that and not really finding it, that's immensely helpful.  

The only thing its missing is a ballpark breakdown of costs for the equipment. Hrm... 

I am still waiting on a quote from a local company next week. I submitted requests for quotes to several places that have not responded after a week, so I assume they don't want the business for a small print run with multiple designs like I'm trying to get. 

I found one local DTG shop that offered $7.50 per unit, but after running the numbers it looked like I was going to have to nearly sell out before I broke even and it just doesn't seem like a worthwhile investment at that point, particularly given that I know the material costs of DTG for each shirt is not quite $2. I want them to make a profit, but if they're selling to me at over 300% markup and I'm turning around and nearly losing money on the whole deal, that doesn't seem like a particularly fair trade.


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## PoisonApple (Mar 20, 2010)

You have to remember and factor in all the hidden an unexpected costs for owning your own equipment. Things jam, parts break, shirts get damaged or burned, ink runs, dirty hands touch the shirt, there's energy costs, time spent working, set up, clean up, things don't line up, maintenance, the space it takes in your home, etc etc etc.

Even the most experienced printers mess up and even when things are perfect there are some things that you just don't have control over.

It's a big investment of time and money. Since you already have content I suggest you get your stuff done somewhere first and see how they sell. At least if something screws up they'll be the one that has to take care of it  Don't be afraid to take a loss at first. That's just how business works.

If you don't sell much then you'll be fortunate enough not be stuck with equipment you'll have to resell at a discount (I'll buy it from you if it's cheap enough, lol) but If you are successful then you can start seriously thinking about purchasing some equipment. Test the waters first especially in this economy.


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## Teeser (May 14, 2008)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t111222.html


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## woohooligan (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks for the info, Mark. And Sarah for the link. One of the guys in the other thread mentioned not bothering to turn on the printer for $3-4 per shirt _unless _it was a run of single-sided prints on light colored shirts, which is exactly what I'm looking for. Stock white t-shirts, one print, centered on the front, no frills. 

Really, I don't think I'd have balked at all as high as $5 per unit, which is higher than the $3-4 the other guy was complaining about. It just seemed like $7.50 per unit was pretty steep, given the material costs and knowing that they print ~25/hr give or take. As high as $5 per unit I can print a run of 100 and come home from the convention with a tidy little profit, but at $7.50 per unit that just doesn't look feasible. 

And if we factor in the printer's cost at $5 per unit, that's net $300 for roughly 4 hrs work, so it's about $75/hr. A little less if the printer jams or they run into some other problem. 

The $7.50 they asked would be something like $125/hr for them. At that rate even if I sell them at $25 per shirt (which is higher than I'd prefer), I still wouldn't break even until I'd sold 70-80% of my stock, and even if I sold out, I'd be making $50-70/hr over 11 hours at the convention (not including time spent creating the art) and assuming most or all of the risk since I'd pay in advance for the printing. 

The printer would be profiting more than the artist for less actual work. 

So assuming that I'm not totally butchering the math, I still don't think I'm being unreasonable to want them to come down a bit from $7.50. Still seems high to me. 

And if I can get a used heat press for $150, 100 shirts in bulk for $165 and 125 JPSS transfers for $85, that comes out to only about $400 plus shipping for 100 shirts versus $750. I'd actually be saving around 40% of the cost of that quote (considerable money) to buy the equipment to print them myself, give or take a few initial failures with the press. D'oh! If they don't sell they don't sell either way, but if I saved money by buying the equipment then I still saved money on the deal. 

Anyway, don't mind me, I'm rambling at this point. I'd still probably go for a $500 quote. Who knows, maybe the folks I called yesterday will be in that range. I do know they're a larger shop. I sent them an art sample and they'll quote me for both DTG and dye-sub early this week.


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## brice (Mar 10, 2010)

You can't mix DTG with screen print or heat transfer. the initial cost of ownership is higher with DTG and you produce an different product than with the other methods. I would have no qualms charging 7.50 for a DTG product, but would NEVER think of producing a product I can do a LOT cheaper on screen printing equipment on DTG, especially if there are volumes. It doesn't make sense. 

Talk about specific scenarios. That's a better comparison. 

If you had photo realistic prints, you'd have to do DTG or heat transfers. Some can do this with screens, but most can't. And the price should reflect the cost of doing these BETTER quality, more detailed print. You throw money away to do it for $5 a print. I don't know about you, but I'm not throwing money away. 

Now if you had a simple 2-3 color design and 100 shirts, why not do it on screen? Your time might be longer for setup, but your costs are lower. And the market is so aggressive, you'd have to be less expensive ($5-6 depending on the number of colors and print locations). 

I'm fairly new to this, but that seems like you aren't considering all of the costs in your calculations (marketing, COGS, labor, rent, etc) and as a hobby or in your garage you'll pay for your hobby, but you are never going to be a major player. Personally I'd rather find a way to run and operate my business to find independence and freedom than just a couple of $100 bucks a month or weekend or month...





woohooligan said:


> Thanks for the info, Mark. And Sarah for the link. One of the guys in the other thread mentioned not bothering to turn on the printer for $3-4 per shirt _unless _it was a run of single-sided prints on light colored shirts, which is exactly what I'm looking for. Stock white t-shirts, one print, centered on the front, no frills.
> 
> Really, I don't think I'd have balked at all as high as $5 per unit, which is higher than the $3-4 the other guy was complaining about. It just seemed like $7.50 per unit was pretty steep, given the material costs and knowing that they print ~25/hr give or take. As high as $5 per unit I can print a run of 100 and come home from the convention with a tidy little profit, but at $7.50 per unit that just doesn't look feasible.
> 
> ...


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