# What is the fair percentage?



## ReiRei (Feb 23, 2009)

Hello,

I started my brand last year and I've been selling those on my site.

Now I am about to work on somebody else shirts.

I will 
1. create the designs (I offer this for free),
2. order transfers and shirts,
3. heatpress the shirts,
4. pack them,
5. sell on my site,
6. ship to the customers

Basically I will do everything from making to selling inclusing the customer service.

He is one of the indie musicians.
And he'll use my site to sell his items, it'll benefits him because I already have everything business-wise set up and it benefits me because I get more traffic and exposure from his endeavors. 
So he'll be like my design/merchandise/business client.

In this case, what is the fair percentage I should take??
I will appriciate any advice

Thank you very much.


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

is 100% too much to ask? i mean, you are doing *all* of the work. not only that, you're assuming 100% of the risk and eating the entire cost of materials.

let's say you have ten bucks in profit after your labour and expenses. first thing, i would make sure he understands that these are your designs and you own them. if he finds someone with a better deal down the line, that printer better damn well come up with his own designs, not use yours! i'd approach it as a negotiation and begin with wanting 75%. he'll probably laugh, or get mad, and counter. you'll probably wind up around 50%, so if that's good for you, go for it. there are no laws saying how much one of you has to get. 

since you're donating your time as a designer, you're going to have to sell, what, say 20 shirts just to break even? and that's not including your resources such as businesses to order from and ability to produce an actual product... *after* you buy the substrates and ink. that's why i'd try to negotiate somewhere in the 60% range and confidently state as if i'd done this before you'll go down to 50% after you sell 250 shirts. 

understand that you're the one in the cat's bird seat here (is that the correct term? lol). driving traffic to your site represents theoretical sales, nothing more. it doesn't guarantee people will buy something of yours, it doesn't even guarantee they'll buy that guy's shirt. so, i wouldn't let anyone use that as a negotiating tool, even if it does have some validity. until it actually happens, i wouldn't allow anyone to get the upper hand based on hypotheticals. and if he wants a number, tell him your goal is to have 3% of the visitors buy something. if that doesn't shut that argument down, he may be difficult to deal with in the long term as he's just not going to grasp your business. 

people can be funny: they think that you wouldn't have shirts to sell were it not for them, so that the cut should be 50/50, or even more in their favour. without you, however, they wouldn't be *able* to sell anything unless they did it themselves. you're not selling his music, you're selling your art based on him and/or his music. you get exposure to your site, and he's getting exposure when someone wears his shirt. to me that comes out even ~ in all reality, he's probably getting the better end of the exposure deal. someone mentioned on here not too long ago that the average shirt is seen 2555 times, as i recall, in its lifetime (and i did question this, but there it is for argument's sake), so unless he's driving an insane amount of traffic to your site, i really wouldn't let that argument get off the ground, either. 

and maybe i'm way off base here, but i wouldn't accept anything less than 50%, and to me that's being generous. for every argument he could use to get a better percentage, you can argue it using logic and numbers. can he find a better deal? probably. and that would be a job i wouldn't mind losing one bit. 

think on this: at some point he might want you to make shirts for him to sell at his shows. so, how much do you plan on losing in that deal? i wouldn't have a problem with it at all, but it wouldn't change my profits, *plus* i would make him buy the shirts upfront (your 50%, if that's what you settled on, plus the blanks themselves). what he makes after that isn't your concern. but, if someone walked into your shop and said, 'i'm planning on re-selling these for profit,' does that mean you have to give them a discount? hell no! his profit is his problem, so why should you take a loss? you can if you want, of course, and it's different if he's getting 500 shirts. you can cut him a slight break, but if he asked you to make only 50% profit, you'd laugh as you forcibly removed him from your store head first. at least the musician has the potential of bringing you customers that will buy your own product and that's literally the only reason i'd consider such a deal (and this rather assumes this guy isn't a huge act, otherwise i might be more lenient). 

from the sound of it and in my completely uneducated opinion, you're doing the guy a favour even at 60%.


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## gruntstyle (Aug 11, 2009)

Ryan is right. Ideas are cheap, execution is hard. If you were at a KISS concert selling tees you wouldn't pay those percentages, why give it to a no name. How much social equity does he have?


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## ReiRei (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you for the great advice.

Since this is my first time, it's really helpful to hear your opinions.
I haven't made a contract, yet, so I'm not sure how this goes or even if I should.

The only reason I was going to design his shirts for free was that I've never done this for others, so I thought this might be a good way to start?!

As I already mentioned, I started my own brand last year(about 6 months ago), so I already have a heatpress to press shirts.
I think I can start doing his merchandise only if he will pay for the materials(transfers/blank shirts..etc). It'll be the only way I will do, otherwise it's too risky for me.
What do you think?

I am just the beginner for this business, but I thought at some point, I need to step up and somehow start doing more.

Thanks


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## ryan barker (Jul 21, 2011)

that's it, too, daniel, rei is doing the labour *and* design. 

he's going to make music whether he has shirts made up or not, so that's a limited argument he might want to make, but really it's no different than someone with any idea they want you to see to fruition. and on your dime. 

i understand the temptation to want people to see your shirts and designs. still, a bad deal is a bad deal any way you slice it. i'm not saying this is a bad deal, but realistically i don't see it as your big breakout, either, so whatever you decide just make sure you protect your interests (and your designs!). what kind of price were you going to charge? i'd say if you were making five bucks off the shirts, then i'd want at least $3, but again that's just my opinion.


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## ReiRei (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you for the reply.

I'm still thinking about this.
And just curious, how much do you charge for pressing a shirt?

Like if I decided to do this, 
how much should I charge as my labor?

Thank you.


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## gruntstyle (Aug 11, 2009)

If you were working for someone else, they'd pay you maybe $10-$10 an hour. I'd at least double that. But if you're starting out, I'd figure in what I'd be comfortable making a week or a day.. So maybe $25 an hour or $200 a day.. Labor should be the largest part of your cost.


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