# Problem using vinyl as my stencil



## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Ok so I'm making my first prints... going fairly well.

BUT, I ran into a small snag.

Ok, two... I'm using FDC 5 year CAD cut vinyl sticker as my stencil (simple lettering) and I've noticed it's peeling up on some of the small parts. Like inside of the s's and the points of k's are coming up.

I'm getting a little ink creeping underneath my stencil... what is the best way to clean that? I'm guessing part of my problem is that I have nothing covering the bottom of the screen. My vinyl is stuck to the squeegee side.

Anyone got any advice?


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## EVLIND (Dec 13, 2010)

I experimented with this awhile back. I did some shirts for my daughters school last min. they needed 30. Anyway, same thing went on. Peeling, blotchy etc. I was using White as well. I figured I could only get like 10-14 prints on each one. Then I would have to grab another screen and apply new vinyl. Few shirts it would be ok then it goes south. I am sure there are some great people in here that got around the issues small tricks etc. We will see.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Yeah, I printed about 25... Granted these are my first... so I've pulled the squeegee at least twice on each print, probably more like avg 3 (making sure I got coverage). Plus I tried some push strokes (that was probably a real bad idea for a vinyl stencil.

I still got 90 left to go.

BTW, I'm printing union soft HS black on natural tees (naturals are GREAT to print on for newbies... scorching doesn't show as easily  )


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## EVLIND (Dec 13, 2010)

You got a lot more than I did. It could have been the mesh. If I remember I used a older screen. Should have used one of my newer ones with tight tension.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Maybe, I'm using a fresh out of the box 158.


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## EVLIND (Dec 13, 2010)

That should work fine. If not that then I would say try laying the squeegee around a 45 degree angle or less. This way its not utilizing the sharp edge as much.


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## Here's A Sign (Jan 10, 2009)

I've done this before as well. I put the stencil on the shirt side and have done 30 prints with no issues at all. That way the squeege isn't scraping away at the vinyl. Clean up is a little more difficult though.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I have used vinyl for three jobs now.
30
35
60
Granted they are my only 3 jobs! lol

But I have used the vinyl all the way through. I practiced for a month before I ever accepted an order from a customer. I always used vinyl. I had the same issue. A lot of inside A's pulling up and getting blotchy ink underneath after about 20.

I spray the back of my vinyl with tack, Then apply it to my screen. The vinyl stays put! When I made shirts for myself I used it for 25 shirts. Cleaned it with a scrub brush, And used the same one a week later to print a few more. still worked great!
Try it.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Hmm... what time of tack? I have some that came with my embroidery machine and then I have Tex-tac. Not sure how well that would work with the application tape. How did you do it?

You are applying squeegee side?


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Here's A Sign said:


> I've done this before as well. I put the stencil on the shirt side and have done 30 prints with no issues at all. That way the squeege isn't scraping away at the vinyl. Clean up is a little more difficult though.


What makes clean up more difficult?

Does the screen clear well with the extra spacing between the fabric and the mesh?


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## Red Leaf (Feb 2, 2011)

How come you don't use emulsion? It's great and easy to work with once you get your times down. Plus you can do beautiful half tones when needed.


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## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t108909.html

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing-equipment/t96657.html

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t137997.html

Those should help out a little .. Don't have any vinyl equip myself but thought I might use the...

:searchforum:


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Spray Adhesive from Micheal's is what I use. The same stuff I use on the platon for shirts. Just spray it directly on the sticky side of the vinyl and put it on the screen.

The only reason I do not use emulsion. ( yet anyway) I do not have a garage. My basement isnt very big and there is no water hook up down there anyway to clean up. Isnt it a chemical?

I really would like to try it. I dont deny that it would be a better way to do better things. 

For now. This is all I can do. Its working out well enough.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks for the links Phil... will read them in a few.

I agree emulsion is the better way to go... just it involves a few more steps and this is getting my feet wet in printing and curing NOW as opposed to when I also figure out steps to prepping a screen, printing out good films, coating the screens properly, vacuuming the screen and film, exposing the screen properly so it will wash out properly. I'm sure you see where I am going here. 

Before there were just so many hurdles I was staring at that I just wasn't going forward at all... I figured I'd try to figure out how to break things down as much as I could to small steps.


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

dj, isn't the sticker more "STICKY" than the screen printing spray adhesive?

Some people use vinyl transfers


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## Inkblot (Jul 4, 2011)

I think the cleanup is harder with the vinyl on the shirt side for me because ink gets pushed into the mesh (even where the vinyl is blocking ink on the bottom side). This ink is trapped there and is very difficult for me to remove compared to if the ink was just setting on top of a stencil. 

The image stays on better for me on the shirt side as I'm not dragging a squeegie across it and also I think the image is crisper as it forms a gasket between the mesh and substrate and ink can't mush out of the image areas as easily.

After several days, my vinyl stencils always die and start contorting and falling off the screen. I think the ink attacks the vinyl, but I'm not sure.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm down for moving over to Shirt side for sure!

I'm gonna fight the cleanup problem by just sticking more vinyl to the top and blocking out around the image as much as possible with tape/vinyl.

I know it's a waste but what's a buck vs spending more time cleaning up.

Would cleanup not go fast enough if you just pull the vinyl off first? Or is the sticky residue still trapped causing the problem?


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## bigduke1022 (Nov 5, 2008)

Gilligan said:


> Would cleanup not go fast enough if you just pull the vinyl off first? Or is the sticky residue still trapped causing the problem?


Pull the vinyl off the screen as soon as you get the print side scraped of ink after printing. The ink reacts with the adhesive on the back of the vinyl. I recommend using citripaste to clean the screen right after you are done printing or it will be harder to clean the ink/adhesive reaction. 

I have printed several small orders that involved simple block fonts with the use of vinyl. The trick, as some have suggested, is putting the vinyl on the shirt side of the screen so that you are not pulling or pushing the squeegee over the vinyl. The vinyl on the shirt side acts as an "ink reservoir" and a gasket. It holds the ink in the image and then prevents it from smearing. This is the same principle for using emulsion. 

I prefer using emulsion to get a crisper, detailed image, but when a small order comes in and needs to be out the door quickly, I will use vinyl if the image will let me.


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## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

If you're going to put the stencil on the shirt side .. And you're planning on putting vinyl or tape on the squeegee side .. Why not make another stencil but with a big stroke around the design and just try to line it up with your design?


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I thought so,But the small areas like the inner letters tend to lift up. But with the sticky spray it seems to hold them down. It must do something to help it..


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## StampedTees (Jun 15, 2011)

If I were going to do what I described before I would not include any middle area's to the ink blocker .. I would just use it as an overall outline to make the cleanup easier ..


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

If you have a heat press why not try vinyl transfers? I have heard of people using heat press to stick the vinyl onto the mesh and to reclaim the screen as well.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Ok, went shirt side and the printing was great! (besides for some off contact issues that weren't related to the stencil.)

Problem is, I made the dreaded mistake of leaving the ink on there for a day or two. 

I had no idea what I was setting myself up for.

So, what can I do to get that gunk cleaned up? I used some ER2 and a pressure washer and got it "clean" but there is some leftover and I believe it is beyond haze. Looks like some gunk in the groves of the mesh.

On another note... If I clean it the same day as I print does it come out easier? What if I used it for name changes does it work for that or will the adhesive/ink gunk happen and keep it from printing cleanly. If so I guess I could just print that with the stencil on top since it's just a one pass thing.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I always clean up the same day. I have never had a problem. I left the vinyl on the screen and printed a week later and all was good. But I think you have to clean up.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

So when you left the vinyl on the screen you used ink degrader or press wash or something to get the ink out first?

I know my buddy that has a print shop hates tape on the shirt side of his screens... now I know why!


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Scrubbed the screen with mineral spirits and then sprayed it out. Let it dry then placed a book inside the screen over my vinyl to make sure it stayed and dried flat. and that was it.


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Digging up an old thread.

So... since this thread I did some shirts and left the ink/adhesive in the screen for weeks/month or two.

As you might imagine it's nasty and doesn't want to come out.

I used Saati HR6 on it and scrubbed it in real good on both sides and let it sit for 30mins. Then washed it out. Not much help at all.

Anyone got any ideas on how to get this crud out?


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## BroJames (Jul 8, 2008)

have you tried a pressure washer?


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## Gilligan (Dec 11, 2009)

Yep... not a super heavy duty one but a cheap black and decker model.


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## jsf (Aug 4, 2009)

Gilligan said:


> Digging up an old thread.
> 
> So... since this thread I did some shirts and left the ink/adhesive in the screen for weeks/month or two.
> 
> ...


scrub it with lacquer thinner and see if it is effective.


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