# better cheaper dtg ink than dupont



## startitinc (Sep 27, 2009)

Has anyone found a better alternative to using dupont dtg white ink?


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Sounds like you have hit the DTG slump..it happens 
You just have to think outside the bottled ink and dive into your printer. Trust me it was a roller coaster sorts for us until we learned how to use the printer correctly. No its not taught in training but the school of hard knocks.
Hard knocks:
-to your wallet
-sanity
-your customer base
-quality printing

After complaining and trying to blame everyone we realized it wasn't the printers fault. Its the ink delivery system and how poorly it was engineered. We blamed everyone but ourselves because trust me enough people were doing that already.

Look into the forums regarding closed ink delivery, bottled ink and how the benefits of degassed/defiltered ink does wonders.

Not necessarily for 1 printer but all printer using this system. The elimation of air is cruical for the ink to rull smoothly. 

NeoFlex - closed carts w/ degassed ink
Belquette-bagged ink degassed

Someone is successful otherwise DTG would not be here.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

startitinc said:


> Has anyone found a better alternative to using dupont dtg white ink?


Hi Startitinc,

Since Carla didn't answer your question I will try to here. There have been a number of companies try to enter the direct to garment ink marketplace and a number of them have made some pretty decent color inks. The area where all of them fall off is in the white ink arena. Good white ink needs to be as opaque as possible as well as have excellent washfastness. What this translates into is an ink that is heavily laden with pigment (TiO2) and binders (polymers that help the ink to adhere to the garment). The white ink needs more binders than the colors as it must sit "on top" of the garment. Trying to accomplish making an ink that does not settle out quickly is very difficult, add this to the need for rigid quality control and you will quickly realize that most manufacturers entering the market do not have the resources to produce a consistent product. You will find some white inks that are not as opaque that are very printer friendly - but require a second pass to acheive the opacity needed - which makes using them even more expensive. 

Another factor to consider is the fact that the inkset you are asking about is designed to be used as a set. The CMYK inks actually crosslink with the surface of the white creating optimal washability and minimized dot gain which gives sharper prints on darks. 

Last, but not least, is the pretreatment. Every single ink we have ever tested (it has been at least 6 different white inks) has performed better on the existing pretreatment than on their own pretreatment.

Hope this more directly addresses your question.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Don, my English? After i read your post I did not get cool relief and nice feeling as after healthy poops. R even thanks for her reply. It must be good reply.
How about this?
No, DuPont is the best one so far quality wise.
Yes, there are many white ink mfgs. Less quality but much cheaper.
Do you want steak or ground meat? Both are protein.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

allamerican said:


> After i read your post I did not get cool and nice feeling as after healthy poops.


 I think I like your reply better!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Don,
Aren't we a buddies? We like laugh and parties. dicking and picking around all the time. Will you drop by my booth at AC? I want to make sure your bourbon is ready. What was the brand? 
Excuse to Scott is my job.
Cheers! Whatever you drinks it on m always.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Don-ColDesi said:


> Since Carla didn't answer your question I will try to here.


Since Don, gave you the distributor sales pitch and gibberish about the functions of DTG ink and the ink market. 

I gave you an end user experience of DuPont ink, I did not mention SWF East (who I dealt with with my K2-who now is Coldesi) you know why??? I wasn't successful with their ink and I found a less expensive* alternative to DuPont ink which is how it properly degassed/micro-filtered DuPont ink. I mentioned 2 proven companies that properly degas/micro-filter their DuPont ink.

Its the not the price point but what you get out of the bagged/cart ink. Can any bottled ink end user say that they get all the ink out of their bottles before adding more??? (see picture below) 

You want a less expensive DTG ink than DuPont? Then you just need it in the best form available. Both options are available you just need to think outside of the "bottle". 

@Peter- can you provide a empty cart picture? I know there was one a time before, if not I will ask JW to post one. 


*I don't like using the word ch**p, because I prefer not to produce ch**p product, especially how much we paid for our machines.


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## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Carla,

Forgive me if you felt convicted by my post. It was never intended that way. I answered the question that was asked with the information I have obtained through nearly 8 years of dealing with direct to garment ink and numerous one on one conversations, phone calls & emails with the head chemists of at least three different ink manufacturers [may be more, I have lost track over the years].


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I will also jump in here and say that I used the bulk system on my HM1 the whole entire time I owned it, and because I had the proper environment that I kept a certain temp as well as humidity, I never had any issues with it at all. I never had head clogs, and always got great coverage. There are many pictures from me on this forum of garments I printed over the years to show this. 

I think that some times what works for one person may not work for another, but its figuring out what works best for you. 

I think that Dupont does have the best white ink, and that is because they have continuously changed it over the years to get a better ink. When I first started with their original white ink, it separated very quickly, and every time they make a new formula for improvement, it gets better as it did for me. I will say I never used the bagged system because I did not have any issues with the bulk system, and my theory was why fix it if it was not broken. Remember that anyone coming out with new white inks, are going to go through the growing pains dupont did to get it to the level dupont has gotten their ink.

As Carla stated, even though the ink they are using is DUPONT, it is packaged differently, but still the same ink. So is there a better white ink than Dupont? Probably not, as the other manufacturing companies of ink, have yet to go through all the growing pains they did, reformulating to get a better ink over and over. They start with one formula, figure out a way to make it better and so on and so on until they get to where Dupont is.

I know there are several different ink sets for CMYK that may work well, but with the white I had never found a better ink then Dupont. The packaging of it just depends on you, and what works best for you. For me my bulk system was perfectly fine and I never felt the need to change it, as I had absolutely no issues with it. So it really comes down to what works best for each individual but as far as brand, I think dupont is the best white you will find.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

With all the respect Bobbie,
There are no perfect environment and every location and every person are all different. You are one out of thousands odds. We as a mfg we have to find the way of user friendly and issue proof as much as we can to the majority of digital printers. Ink contact with open air is no no even a little. Accident/mishandle chance is extremely high and cause users pain. Since we apply bagged ink clog report rate is almost gone. Yes Dupont upgrade their ink many times but last was around 1.5 years ago and did not touched. It was Magenta bending not white. This is at least I heard by their tech. Big part of almost none clog report these days is bagged idea it did great part than better ink. Many dtg owners are extending printhead's life 2 years plus these days.( epson modify). I reply this with worry of people may follow your foot step for little odds. I am sure you'll understand my point. follow the leader as Epson does. We do exactly as they are doing it.
Cheers! Beers are on me always. Didn't we meet at LB at Rodney party? Good looking skinny? lol.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

LOL yes Peter you met me at the dinner 

What my point was that I MYSELF never had any problems with my bulk system, and I did have a great environment set up for my printer as I ran my business out of my house, had a dedicated room to my machine, kept a hydrometer on my machine, used humidifiers, and kept the temp, humidity and all the same at all times. For me I did have the perfect environment and I only ever used 2 printheads on my printer in four years. When I sold it last about a year ago, it still had the second printhead on it and was still printing perfect prints. So as I said this was my experience, and the bulk system worked fine for me and I never had the issues so many others have had. 

I think it depends a lot on where the printer is kept, how you take care of your printer (mine was like my second child), and how you take care of the environment it is kept in have a great bearing on how your printer will run and what works for each individual. I was just giving my experience, and I did not have problems. I can even give you the guys contact info I sold my printer to, and he can verify this for you


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh I will also state that the reason I replaced the first printhead was that I had test printed some ink from another distributor that was in the process of coming out with a new ink set and that ink, it was only CMYK, messed up my printhead, otherwise I think I might not have even had to change it at all. Once I became a tester for this ink company (which I will not name, as I tested several different inks for several different companies) and ran their ink through my machine, my printhead was shot and it never printed the same after so I replaced it, that is where the second printhead came in.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Did I gave you a hug? If not you owe me double next time. So you do not have printer? It's a shame. Dont tell here why you get rid of your second child. I am afraid of all will follow you. lol
Cheers! Dinners are on me always to you.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Yes you did give me a hug hahaha. 

Its ok I will answer you. I had a spinal cord surgery that damaged a bunch of nerves in my back, which left me partially paralyzed although you cannot tell just by looking at me, but I have way to much pain from it and go to the doctors or end up in the hospital too much, that I could not keep up with my business. It was a hard decision to close it, but it was something I had no choice in. Maybe one day I will be able to get another  Right now I enjoy sharing what I have learned over the years, and still go to shows and such. I still keep up on things that are changing, and still love helping and sharing here


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Bobbie,
I am so sorry to hear that. I will prey for your fast recovery and full heal. And be a NeoFamily? Lol.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Thank you Peter  and it was nice to finally meet and put a face to the postings, although I did see you at the dinner at that brewery in long beach, I did not get a chance to talk to you at that one, so it was nice to finally get to this time. I wish I could say I will get better but unfortunately the damage to my spinal cord is permanent, but I am learning better ways as time goes to control the pain. Mostly I have just been more focused on that and spending lots of time with my grand babies, and yes I'm a young nana lol. I know that eventually I will get back to something so my poor fire fighting hubby does not have to take on so much. I still have so many of my customers contacting me, hoping I have started back up. We shall see what the future holds though. Thank you for the prayers


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## plavunez (Aug 6, 2012)

Hello everyone.
Can anyone tell me whether DTG and Dupont are one and the same brand? 
We use DTG ink for DTG M2 and DTG Viper. We use cleaning solution and pre-treatment (DTG as well). But we have to go through certification (cleaning solution and pre-treatment) in order we can buy and go through our Belarusian customs without any problems (Customs doesn't let through cleaning solution and pre-treatment withou certification). We have cerification for DuPont but we don't have certification for DTG.
Are there any document that can certify that DuPont = DTG? Please tell me where I can find them (are there any links on web-sites?)
Please help me!!!


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## kevrokr (Feb 26, 2007)

I would get the MSDS sheet from your distributor to verify if these products are indeed DuPont. Then, have copies of the needed MSDS sheet(s) sent in a clear plastic document envelope that is adhered to the outside of the box when your ink is shipped from them.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

To be honest it really depends of who is selling you DTG brand inks. Good distributors have Dupont. But some try to earn a little on the side selling other inks as DTG brand. Witnessed this myself with this whole thing with CMYK inks washing of white underbase all over Europe all of the sudden two years ago.

Thats said I don't use Dupont for over a year now and no major problems.

BTW what kind of certification do you need in Belarus to pass the customs ?


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## plavunez (Aug 6, 2012)

To kevrokr, 
Thank you so much!
to Smalzstein,
If the goods were certified in Russia or Kazahstan, we don't need certification (it is because we are member of Belarussian-Russian-Kazahstanian union). DuPont (or Dtg, I don't remeber exactly) was certified in Russia. That is why we have to prove that DuPont=DTG. In this case we don't need to undergo certification.
If we can't prove this, we have to order one litre of pretreatment or cleaning solution and pass it to certification office and we pay 150 euro for certification. Then the certification office gives us certificate for solution (or pre-treatment). That is the way we pass certification.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Lol,
duPont = Dtg?
Very funny expression.
DTG(not digital to garment, company name) company in AUS sells printers to many countries. You bought printer from one of his dealers.
Dealer do not have to carry DuPont ink. It can be any brand.
So, you have to deal with guy who sold to you. I don't understand why you cannot have clear answer. Is there anything we do not know?
If you visit DuPont website MSDS is available to download. Public info.
In USA, some people do mix or re-label-- etc, all kind
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## erich (Apr 15, 2009)

allamerican said:


> Lol,
> dealer do not have to carry DuPont ink. It can be any brand.
> .


That information is incorrect when refering to DTG brand dealers.

I believe you bought your machines from either the Turkish dealer or the Polish dealer. I can confirm that both sell only genuine DuPont consumables.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Jerry I have a question - do your dealers recive bottles of inks or in containers for them to reffil, mix filter bottle themselfs?

I ask because coupe of times in the past I've recived white in a high state of seperation.


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## erich (Apr 15, 2009)

only a couple of dealers buy in bulk and decant themselves, regardless the seperation can happen in any size ink container or cartridge if it is not stored/treated properly or out of date. Did this ink have any batch numbers on it at all?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

I will check if I have some old bottles and check it. Thanks Jerry!


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## plavunez (Aug 6, 2012)

I believe you bought your machines from either the Turkish dealer or the Polish dealer.

Yes, correct.


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## kombi (Oct 24, 2012)

Does any one know of any advantages or disadvantages from the ink bags vs the cartridge type inks for the 4880... I have also seen that DTG has a newer 4480 bulk cartridge and they say to leave an air hole open on top of the cartridge so the ink does not strave... But I see the neoflex does not.. Since they are both based on the 4880 printer is this extra air hold really needed?


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

bulk carts need the hole open so as the ink leaves the cart, air can take it's place. this way no negative pressure builds.

the carts with bags inside of them (NeoFlex) are vacuum sealed, so no air needs to be introduced into the bag. 

i've used both with equal results, while others will swear by the sealed carts (bag inside). if you are printing everyday, then the bulk carts should be fine. i will say that the WHITE ink is much more sensitive to the elements and i would recommend using sealed carts for that. again, i've done both with equal results, but i also keep the ink moving, have good humidity, keep my printer clean, etc.


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## kombi (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks ...That makes sense


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## Stitch-Up (May 26, 2007)

The NeoFlex can use bulk ink carts, I've used them, but do remember, the carts supplied by AA for the NeoFlex have sealed bags inside - the best of both worlds


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## kombi (Oct 24, 2012)

Humm... How about the white ink cartridge's do they need to be mixed/shake ever few days like the instructions on the bottles from dupont? Or does the sealed cartridge take care of that? If it does do you need to be concerned with the lines if the printer sits over the weekend...

Thanks...


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## Stitch-Up (May 26, 2007)

I shake my sealed carts to ensure the heavier white is well mixed. I also give the ink lines a flick - it works for me and is no hardship.


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

sunnydayz said:


> I will also jump in here and say that I used the bulk system on my HM1 the whole entire time I owned it, and because I had the proper environment that I kept a certain temp as well as humidity, I never had any issues with it at all. I never had head clogs, and always got great coverage. There are many pictures from me on this forum of garments I printed over the years to show this.
> 
> I think that some times what works for one person may not work for another, but its figuring out what works best for you.
> 
> ...


so for R2000 is consider bulk system?


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

FulStory said:


> so for R2000 is consider bulk system?




What brand of direct to garment printer are you using?

_


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

I am actually using the modified R2000 printer. by the way I wanna ask you is it suitable for bagged system?


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## FulStory (Jun 5, 2013)

equipmentzone said:


> What brand of direct to garment printer are you using?
> 
> _


I am actually using the modified R2000 printer. by the way I wanna ask you is it suitable for bagged system?


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## kevrokr (Feb 26, 2007)

There are a couple of different ways to convert a R2000.


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## erka (Mar 10, 2013)

sounds like finding cheapest dtg ink.please try www.[B]t[/B]-*print*products.com/.that is scott freshners T-PRINT brand.it is soft setting and 1L=139.97$.cheapest on the market.little diffrent than dupont.but more quality looks.and as you knowing FIREBIRD ink introduce this days.1L=150$.hope this for help


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## myql (Jan 4, 2019)

startitinc said:


> Has anyone found a better alternative to using dupont dtg white ink?



Have you tried IMAGE ARMOR WHITE? Works well and better price.

For CMYK
This is a good deal for Epson converted printers...
@ $25/bottle ( EPSON DTG Printers)
https://123refills.com/cic/product....Garment+Textile+Ink+for+Epson+engines+-+250ml
Coupon Code I used ( might be expired now): DTGPROCMYK


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