# Printer's Life and Depreciation value



## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Any ideas? Add more questions here.
How long your DTG will last?
How many impressions DTG will give you before finish life term?
How much money we should add to cost of printing against depreciation?
Does your DTG seller will have a parts after they come up with new model and after warranty is over?


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

We all as Printer user and seller have to think about this. Same as when we buy a car we know car will die one day. I am not afraid to talk about this. I am not trying to scare off buyers also. 
Once we know the numbers we don't have to be surprise.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I don't know if this is an easy thing to answer.
For example, our Kiosks. We should have sold it long ago and looked for a 'newer model' to get it to perform as it should.

I'm pretty sure the warranty was voided by doing all that we did to it to get it to work right by stripping it down and replacing the ink delivery system. But now that it does work right we run it constantly with great performance.
How many prints stock, vs how many prints now are totally different estimations.

This little Civic out performs the shiny BWM.

The main reason we moved to the MOD1 was for production speed. The only printers I saw that looked faster production wise were the Kornit's, but their quality is terrible and price tag ridiculous.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Let's pick the number to start.
I cannot put my printer price here. Against TSF policy but you can.
How much was Mod?
Epson manual says 15000 impressions. But I am sure it will be shorter than they say because we modified for havier work than original purpose. I think 10,000 is fair. Of cause depends on users like a car.
Adam, I do have trust in you that you can come up with logical answer and numbers. That answer will be very benificial to all members. Understand the real cost of printing. Not just ink.
Who owns what machine for how long with how many impressions?
divide Machine cost.
Dan Salgado had maybe 20,000 something ( I forgot exact number) for 3 years (same). When I sell Flexijet there were kind a race going on who printed more. I don't see that anymore here or I missed it?


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I think I'm missing your point.

We've printed far more than 20k on our Kiosk .. there are normal replacement parts and utilities to reset the waste ink counter. Basically, as long as replacement parts are available, the printer will live on.


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

they, like all technology equipment, are worthless on day one. any juice you can get out of them reduces the price you paid for it. after 5 years we still have the kioskII. as long as there are parts and ink for it we will use it.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Binki,
What 's your name? haha Binki is your name?
Did you ever think about depreciation of machine value?
What is resell value now you think?
let's say K2 was $12000
($12000- resell value)/5yrs = $xxxx/your shirts printed. = you should charge to customer on each shirt. 
many printers are passing this area. It is important. When the time comes to you have to replace your printer you need money. I want you use money which you add on invoice under name of depreciation.
hahahaha obviously invisible print on invoice.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

Binki, I agree. Peter your car analogy doesn't quite fit. When you buy a car the value becomes depreciated over time same with any equipment. But driving a car does not make you money.

Sure, maybe I can sell a Kiosk for 6-8k, or I can make 6-8k per month with it.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Binki, I agree. Peter your car analogy doesn't quite fit. When you buy a car the value becomes depreciated over time same with any equipment. But driving a car does not make you money.
> 
> Sure, maybe I can sell a Kiosk for 6-8k, or I can make 6-8k per month with it.


Are you saying that value of your printer stay still? No matter how long you use and how many time you print?
It is not GOLD. It is machine which wear and tear every day.
Your printer value is way less than who prints 1000 shirts per month. Do you really know how many DTG printers do not have a job 1000 shirts/month?
You make 6-8K with Kiosk + You make way more with Mod 9-12K.(you said 1.5 times faster) = total 15K-20K you make by month. Hummmmm makes me think twice. What am I doing here.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

We call mileage.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Your post saying Return On Investment (ROI) on Kiosk is 2 month. (6-8K) x 2 = $12000-$16000. Well~ hey guys what are you waiting for?


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> Are you saying that value of your printer stay still? No matter how long you use and how many time you print?


Huh?? I'm saying comparing piece of production machinery to a car does not make sense. Driving the car does not make you money (Unless it's a food coach  )



allamerican said:


> Do you really know how many DTG printers do not have a job 1000 shirts/month?


What does this have to do with the printers capability?



allamerican said:


> You make 6-8K with Kiosk + You make way more with Mod 9-12K.(you said 1.5 times faster)


I was referring to the machines capability. Are you asking me personally about my income or are you questioning the ability for a printer to produce that many shirts?

You should know better than I what a DTG printers capability is .. what do you tell your customers before a sale?

I doubt you suggest that they are only going to produce a handful of shirts a day and the value of the machine will be significantly depreciated over the next few years.
What is it that you tell them, I'd love to hear.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> Your post saying Return On Investment (ROI) on Kiosk is 2 month. (6-8K) x 2 = $12000-$16000. Well~ hey guys what are you waiting for?


ROI is not determined by owning something Peter. If I go buy a NeoFlex, that doesn't guarantee me any business. If I buy your machine and let it collect dust, what is my ROI?

That's sad that none of your customers have a good ROI. I've met many people over the passed 4 years who where selling their own shirts online, invested in a DTG printer and took the business in-house and paid for their machine in the first 3 months.

Take for example a store that sells simple text-based shirts.
Sell for $20, average blank shirt $2.50 average Ink / pre-treat cost $2.50.
Any Kiosk or T-Jet can crank out 60 of these shirts in a normal work day with no over-time.


Obviously, the above ROI is different than the guy down the block who has no customers, no product but purchased the machine to begin building his business.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

I tell them and I alway worry about their job supply. I send so many printing requests by who look for printing service to our NeoFlex users. I always ask buyers that "Are you confident enough that your shirts will sell". I think you can find this question I wrote in this forum some where. Selling DTG is not everything to me. I believe "your success is our success" every moment of my business life.
My purpose of this thread is I want DTG owners realize that there are other hidden expenses than most people think. My will is not ugly. My will is stand by YOU! My heart is true.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> My purpose of this thread is I want DTG owners realize that there are other hidden expenses than most people think.


Well I must have missed that part.. why don't you lay it out on the table for us.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> That's sad that none of your customers have a good ROI.


How about if I told you that NeoFlex mutiple owners gross anual sale is $600,000,000.00 with 15 NeoFlex.
And many $100,000,000 users.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Did anyone run for Marathon? Runner who at last thinks middle runner is the leader.
Flog in well see the sky is only quarter size.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

I hate people delete their posts right after posting. Come on~. don't make me look like a bad guy.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> How about if I told you that NeoFlex mutiple owners gross anual sale is $600,000,000.00 with 15 NeoFlex.
> And many $100,000,000 users.


If you told me that I wouldn't be surprised, you often make wild and crazy statements. 

15 machines, 600k, that I believe but not 600 million.

Aside from that absurd statement .. I would argue that *IF* they were doing that kind of business, it would be because of their business model, not your machine. Meaning, your machine is just a tool, they would still be doing that kind of volume with another brand of printer if they so choose.

Purchasing a machine does not guarantee business, unless said machine turns lead into gold or grants wishes.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Well I must have missed that part.. why don't you lay it out on the table for us.


It is not my fault you did not read or understand. Same as I did not see red light officer,


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

I am not like your God company. Keep repeating CafePress name over and over indirect way and Zxxxxx. I put my pride on table but cannot repeat company name. I don't need your trust. I trust my pride. Number is correct $600 mil


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Many 100mil company allows us to use their name. see my testimonials.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> It is not my fault you did not read or understand. Same as I did not see red light officer,


A red light is identifiable.

Your posts are like trying to decipher the rosetta stone.

If your intent was to bring to light hidden costs in DTG printing, then why don't you bullet list them and make it clear. Suggesting, Implying or making long-winded rambles is not getting your point across.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

allamerican said:


> Did anyone run for Marathon? Runner who at last thinks middle runner is the leader.
> Flog in well see the sky is only quarter size.


Good examples


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> Did anyone run for Marathon? Runner who at last thinks middle runner is the leader.
> Flog in well see the sky is only quarter size.





TahoeTomahawk said:


> If your intent was to bring to light hidden costs in DTG printing, then why don't you bullet list them and make it clear. Suggesting, Implying or making long-winded rambles is not getting your point across.





allamerican said:


> Good Examples


Now we can finally agree!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Hello RR. we need you here.
TT, let's stop here.
My intention was not insulting you or what so ever. I know I have tempo sometimes.
I want all DTG user succeed.
Sorry, my appology.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I'm not offended, why would I be?

Was that CafePress comment for me... I don't get it.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> Your post saying Return On Investment (ROI) on Kiosk is 2 month. (6-8K) x 2 = $12000-$16000. Well~ hey guys what are you waiting for?





allamerican said:


> How about if I told you that NeoFlex mutiple owners gross anual sale is $600,000,000.00 with 15 NeoFlex.
> And many $100,000,000 users.


Wow.. now that is a great ROI. Pay 25k for a NeoFlex, have 40 million in sales! What are you waiting for!!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> I'm not offended, why would I be?
> 
> Was that CafePress comment for me... I don't get it.


BQ sold many to Cafepress. BQ should not mention Cafepress name. Instead of name the company name they keep saying "Biggest shirts printer is using my printer and Zxxxx too"
It is same reason I cannot repeat my buyers name.
Cafepress is $500mil+ company. (they said)
BQ lived in Cafepress for months because of Mod problems.
We met owner at Magic show and we are communicating now. Wish me luck.
Clear? Roger?


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Wow.. now that is a great ROI. Pay 25k for a NeoFlex, have 40 million in sales! What are you waiting for!!


???? NeoFlex is way less than $25,000. Even you take two Printers with one base still way less.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> BQ sold many to Cafepress. BQ should not mention Cafepress name. Instead of name the company name they keep saying "Biggest shirts printer is using my printer and Zxxxx too"
> It is same reason I cannot repeat my buyers name.
> Cafepress is $500mil+ company. (they said)
> BQ lived in Cafepress for months because of Mod problems.
> ...


Again, not sure what this has to do with me.. I didn't mention CafePress OR Belquette and I'm not affiliated with either of them.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

allamerican said:


> We met owner at Magic show and we are communicating now.


Did his eyes start to glaze over when you explained machine depreciation?
How about when you told him you have a Unique Rip process, he asked what made it Unique and you told him it's a secret.

Good luck to you Peter.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Did his eyes start to glaze over when you explained machine depreciation?
> How about when you told him you have a Unique Rip process, he asked what made it Unique and you told him it's a secret.
> 
> Good luck to you Peter.


I was not there. Remember? I am semi retired?
How many people ask to any DTG seller "why your machine is unique?"
They do not.
1. They look into quality of print.
2. They look into production not printhead speed.
3. They look into home made of pro made.
4. They look into service.
There are no idiot in this industry who ask above question at gecko. Especially who own big company will never raise same question as you are wondering.

He is Master of depreciation to be a big company owner. take this to your bank. Bank will cash you out.


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## loloxa (Sep 5, 2007)

allamerican said:


> How about if I told you that NeoFlex mutiple owners gross anual sale is $600,000,000.00 with 15 NeoFlex.
> And many $100,000,000 users.


Peter help me out here because I thought I knew math and I'm finding myself lost with this ginormus numbers you are throwing over this post.

600 million dollars? in one year? 15 machines? 

600/15 = 40 million dollars per machine in one year.

1 year = 525600 !!MINUTES!!!

so 40.000.000 / 525600 = 76.10 $ a minute gross per machine.

So if the most expensive t-shirt in Zxxxx or CxxxPxxxx is around 34$, 2 sides, IT means your machine can print those two sides in under , like, 20 seconds?.

Or maybe they are 600 million company that have 15 neoflex but they dont' make their money only with your machines, I mean a company that grosses 1,141.55$ a minute, 356 days a year nonstop,printing t-shirts must be at least the biggest printer in the world or am I such a poor chump that this numbers seem unbelievable to me?


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TT asked me same question. Company total sale is not just produced by printer only. They sell all kinds of stuff. Printing is part of it.


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## vinyl signs (Dec 26, 2007)

Peter would you quit blowing smoke! Some of us just get tired of hearing you rant about your machine.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

I did not say much about my machine ( I do not even say my brand anymore). I said company who does big gross sale does have my machines and the owner is understand depriciation value well. I never said my printer create whole revenue. All views of angle are different depends on how you want to look at it. If you have wear Sun Glasses it will look darker than it is always. Please wear be fair glasses. Be fair.


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