# Just got back from NBM at LBC



## mattisme2003 (Apr 27, 2010)

This is my first post: I've been lurking on these boards for years now; reading and learning from the immense amount of information on the forums. I figure I should pay back some of what I've learned here by adding to the dialogue. Anyway, I recently attended the NBM show in Long Beach where I met a lot of cool people and learned a lot about various industries aside from DTG printing..but since this is in the DTG printing section, I'll keep this discussion to the subject of direct to garment printing and my experience at NBM.

I have been reading a lot about direct to garment printing over the last three to four months after deciding that getting back into screen printing is not the right move for me. I'm a graphic designer and have a background in screen printing as well as sign production. Initially I avoided DTG based on rumors I had heard about it's inferior quality to screen printing, poor wash-ability, and bad press I had read on the subject. Since then (the past four or five years) a lot has apparently changed and advanced in the industry. After months of obsessive research, reading as much as I could find on the subject of DTG printing, I became particularly interested in the Neoflex printer from All American. 

After requesting information on the Neoflex, I was contacted by Joe at All American (good guy) who informed me that they were going to be showing off their equipment at the NBM show in Long Beach. I decided right there that I had to go because I had recently missed the opportunity to check them out at ISS. And unless I wanted to fly out to Philly, I was going to have a pretty long wait before I'd have another opportunity to view their printer in person. While I was at NBM I checked out almost all of the DTG printers that were there. I somehow missed the Kornit booth but I'm not concerned with the kornit do to my budget. I personally had artwork samples printed on the Anajet Mpower 5, the Brother GT-3, the All American Neoflex, and the BelQuette Mod1. 

I recommend to anyone who is considering a DTG printer, to get your own artwork printed by each printer you are researching, in person, while you wait. That way you get an accurate representation of the quality and speed of the print that can be expected without many, if any manipulations to the artwork. Out of those four printers, here is how I personally would rate them based solely on the the quality of their prints.

1.Neoflex
2.BelQuette Mod1
3.Brother GT-3
4.Anajet Mpower 5

When taking into account all aspects of a company when deciding on which equipment to purchase, I still would not rate these companies or machines any differently. Don't get me wrong, the Brother GT-3 is a good printer and no doubt Brother is a reputable company, however when comparing the quality, density, color vibrancy, coverage and all other aspects of the print, the Brother GT-3 didn't hold up to the prints from either the BelQuette Mod1 or the Neoflex in my opinion. The Brother printer produced a good print but when compared next to the same art printed by BelQuette or Neoflex, it was obvious the coverage was not as dense and the colors were not nearly as vibrant. 

The Anajet and Brother did print faster, but speed means nothing to me if the quality is not there. My overall impression of the Anajet was not that good..at all. I have no doubt that with a lot of tinkering or perfectly prepared artwork that the Anajet COULD produce a decent print; but let's face it, time is money, and I don't want to be spending a lot of my time tinkering with customer supplied art and dealing with many misprints to get a print to come out looking even remotely acceptable. I would rather spend that time creating custom art or finding more business. 

I wouldn't even consider the Anajet after seeing the print it produced with my art file. I know a lot of you Anajet owners out there probably love your printer and get results you are happy with; but from the sample I got printed and other samples of theirs that I saw at their booth were not comparable to the other three printers I mentioned. Therefore I will not consider it for my choice of printer. The brother on the other hand, if I was more concerned with output speed than output quality and had a lot more money to allocate towards a printer, I would consider the Brother. 

The Belquette produced extremely nice prints and only when compared to the Neoflex could you see that it was a slightly inferior print. The flesh tones were not as crisp or vibrant on the Mod1 and certain areas of the print looked somewhat dull. I would most likely equate this to the rip software each company uses. Overall though, the Mod1 was a nice printer. Jarid Hill at BelQuette was helpful and really informative. He was not hesitant about printing samples for anyone. There were some companies who distributed other DTG printers (not the printer manufacturers) would not print custom supplied art samples on the show room floor. They wanted me to come down to their show room to do that. 

Having the companies print your art file in front of you, seems to me is the only way to get an accurate representation of how each printer and rip software will handle the file without additional tweaking. Overall however, Neoflex is the champion in my opinion. Print quality and versatility of printing options; this is the only printer that I have mentioned that allows you to print three shirts at one time. Or use the entire bed as one big printing area. Therefore a person is not limited to only items which fit on a shirt platen. Neoflex's rip software is phenomenal when compared to the other printers. 

The Neoflex lays down a layer of white and then come back to do the color. Whereas the Brother lays down white and then almost immediately after it lays down the color (making it print faster), but a person is able to print three shirts at a time with the Neoflex. And by the time the printer gets done printing the white ink on all three shirts, and it is ready to start printing color, the first shirt that was printed with white ink has now had adequate time to slightly cure or gel up so that it may better accept the color ink that is to be place on top of it. The result is a smoother, denser, and more even coverage. The Neoflex may take a little longer to print than a Brother GT-3; but like I said before, I will sacrifice print speed for print quality any day.

Aside from how awesome the prints looked that came off of the Neoflex, all of the guys at All American that I met were just as cool. I was fortunate to hangout with the All American crew for food and drinks after the trade show. Peter, Justin, Joe, Pete, John, Justin Walker (Affiliate of All American) as well as many others I forgot were all very cool and had a wealth of knowledge. All American sincerely treated us like family and if this is any representation of how their service is, I knows their customers are well taken care of and have all of the support that they need. After talking with many different companies at NBM, these guys really stood out.

Overall the NBM show was great for learning about all kinds of aspects to many different industries that can't be picked up just by watching videos and reading articles online. I learned a lot and hope to use that knowledge to expand my business. I hope this LONG post (more like an essay at this point) is helpful to some of the other members of the forum who may be interested in any of these printers. I have no connection to any of the companies listed in this post. This is all my honest opinion from my research and what I saw at NBM. 

-Matt

Attached below are pictures of the art file I had various printers sample print for me. I tried to get as good of pictures as I could, however it does not translate the same as a photo of the prints as it does holding the printed shirt yourself. A key area to look at is in the torso under the elbow.

Here is the art file:








Here are the prints:


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

Awesome review man...could you post up a pic of the artwork before it was printed. This will help people to see how the original artwork looked and how each printer handled it. Also it looks like you posted the brother image twice.

The anajet shirt looks like caca!


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## lovejoytees (Jul 3, 2012)

New to the industry and I just got back from NBM. It was Great! I learned so much and it was wonderful to see the big commercial machines in action. I enjoyed myself.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

@mattisme2003 thanks for taking the time to post the detailed and thorough review with photos!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Matt,
First of all Welcome to the most fun jungle in TSF. I remember you said you have been a lurker for longest time in. Now you are in public. And seems like New Star. Lots of people appreciate your time and views. I am sure there are many lurkers out there are reading as you used to be. It was our pleasure and honor to have you for drinks and laughs. 

Cheers! Beers are on me always.

[media]http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac191/mp19134/287397_385889554813097_1337308015_o.jpg[/media]


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

allamerican said:


> Cheers! Beers are on me always.
> [/IMG]


Actually, Peter, I believe the beers in the photo you posted were actually "on" the NBM Show. I was sitting there when that photo was taken. 

It was good to see you, though... Looking forward to being able to chat with you guys a little more at the next few shows when I'm walking the floor instead of working our booth. I don't think we'll be exhibiting again until January.

And to the OP, thank you for posting the photos! It's amazing how different the image qualities are from machine to machine. It's easy to see why so many of the DTG Battle Royale winners and runners up have been printed with the NeoFlex.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

Dekay317 said:


> Awesome review man...could you post up a pic of the artwork before it was printed. This will help people to see how the original artwork looked and how each printer handled it. Also it looks like you posted the brother image twice.
> 
> The anajet shirt looks like caca!


 
The art file is at the very top of all the photos of the shirts


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## mattisme2003 (Apr 27, 2010)

Aye..fuhhgitabouuutit! Glad you all appreciate it.
@Peter and the Neo crew - Thanks again for the good company and laughs.

@justin Choi - Awesome picture! Hahaha


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

martinwoods said:


> The art file is at the very top of all the photos of the shirts


I see that now. He edited his post after I posted that and added the art file and removed the extra brother image.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

LOL I'm back! I had such a great time at the show. I had one of the best experiences ever. I have seen the Future...And the Future is DTG Printing. With that said, I was taken aback (Meaning I was surprised) at the quality from the DTG Machines there. I only wanted to see what all the fuss was about DTG Printing. For you see, I was doing Transfers. I didn't think DTG Printing could hold a candle to what I was doing and Producing. One Day a client ask me to do my designs on a black shirt. "I Looked At Him Like A Deer In Head Lights" I couldn't do what he wanted. So, I knew the show was nearing so, I waiting until the show and I ventured over to the "Dark Side"(meaning the other aisles) which I've never ventured before. Well, when I did finally go over to that side of the building I saw the DTG Aisles. I wondered over and the first one I saw was Belquette Inc. DTG Machines. I spoke to Robyn, I spoke to Jerid Hill, I spoke to Kevin Keys. There, I stayed a long time asking questions. Jerid Hill answered all of my questions. I saw there Printed Shirts of Ironman, and The Hulk. They where very impressive. I then saw the machine which I was impressed with too. I like The Mod One machine. It's large printing area. It's 4 Point Ball System for Great Registration. I like the fact you can Orientate your shirts since my designs where designed in 11x17 because that is how my Transfers are. I ask Jerid Hill if he would be so kind to print out some designs of mine. "He said Sure!" I give him my Flash Drive. He then printed out my designs. I have to say I was stunned with the colors. Although they were printed on Black shirts that didn't have pretreatment, they still look great. Even though their system can print only 1 item at a time which I didn't mine. If you want to go into production, you can buy extra platens, so you will always have shirts at the ready. So, Now I guess you want to hear who has the best of the best printers. I will get to that in a sec. I went to see if the guys who Introduced me to the DTG World was there and sure enough they where. I went to introduce myself to them. They had hear about me so I told them they where the first ones who turn me on to the DTG world. They had all 3 machines there! I was stunned and still amazed at what DTG Machines can do. I know all about that company too. So, I didn't get anything printed from them because I know the quality of what their FREE JET 330 TX, FREE JET 500 TX and Their FREE JET 700 TX Printers can do. If I had not seen who I'm about to say first then, I would hands down go with A FREE JET. Why? well it is simple. I like their Vibrant, colors. I like the Sharp Text. I like their large size. Athough they did my samples first. I was going to buy from them. I truly was. I really like their RIP Software. You find your drive(where the artwork is stored) find the Printer(which happens to be FREE JET) make sure the table is level, put your shirt on and then hit print. It was very fast for my white shirt sample, it as a bit slower only because it was doing my sample on a black shirt that as you know requires a White Under base. I ask the Tech who happens to be Jose Haro. "What Do I need To Do At The End Of The Day" He showed me what I needed to do. It has what he called A Wet Cap System(Please look it up on their site) He showed me what I needed to do. It was very easy. The RIP software is very easy to use. They even let me print out my design. How cool is that. Like I stated earlier they where the first ones to Introduce Me To The DTG Print World. So, Naturally I'm going to gravitate to them cause they impressed me first. I told them I would return later. They said ok! "Come Back" I then walked around to the the Brother. I know the guys there too. Next to Brother was Kornit Breeze. I just walked by them. I didn't even stop. I saw in the distance there was ANA Jet. I kept on walking. I came up this booth right on the corner. There was some activity there so I stopped. I checked out their wall of what they had done, and right away I knew I had found it! You will know if you have found It! when you see it. I saw it! I was drawn to it! What was I drawn too you ask? Why my name! LOL it was on a Blue Board that said Atigerwanabee. I ask who the hell did that? and Peter! I love that guy told me "Oh you are atigerwanabee" I said Yes I am he" We hit it off! I went and had a blast with the whole crew. I'm mad as heck now? Oh no! Why am I mad? Because I should have won that dang belt. My design was way better than Justin Walkers. LOL Or at least in my mind it was" LOL So, here it is in a nutshell" I found it! and it is called NEO FLEX. If I knew how to post pictures here I would show you my designs. Heck even Justin Walker, John the computer guy, Justin Choi, his brother. They all liked my designs "I SHOULD HAVE WON" LOL Sorry for the long messege. Also, Matt that had the samples who earlier told about his experiences was spot on about NEO FLEX. So, I don't have to go on and on about it. I liked his design. I was amazed at how different each sample was from the other. When he showed the One from Brother, AnaJet, and the closest to the real deal was the Belquette. Dang! will someone show me or tell me how to post pictures! Everyone is showing off their stuff and I can't. “Oh Never Mind” It was staring me right in the face”Duh! LOL


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

LOL I'm back! I had such a great time at the show. I had one of the best experiences ever. I have seen the Future...And the Future is DTG Printing. With that said, I was taken aback (Meaning I was surprised) at the quality from the DTG Machines there. I only wanted to see what all the fuss was about DTG Printing. For you see, I was doing Transfers. I didn't think DTG Printing could hold a candle to what I was doing and Producing. One Day a client ask me to do my designs on a black shirt. "I Looked At Him Like A Deer In Head Lights" I couldn't do what he wanted. So, I knew the show was nearing so, I waiting until the show and I ventured over to the "Dark Side"(meaning the other aisles) which I've never ventured before. Well, when I did finally go over to that side of the building I saw the DTG Aisles. I wondered over and the first one I saw was Belquette Inc. DTG Machines. I spoke to Robyn, I spoke to Jerid Hill, I spoke to Kevin Keys. There, I stayed a long time asking questions. Jerid Hill answered all of my questions. I saw there Printed Shirts of Ironman, and The Hulk. They where very impressive. I then saw the machine which I was impressed with too. I like The Mod One machine. It's large printing area. It's 4 Point Ball System for Great Registration. I like the fact you can Orientate your shirts since my designs where designed in 11x17 because that is how my Transfers are. I ask Jerid Hill if he would be so kind to print out some designs of mine. "He said Sure!" I give him my Flash Drive. He then printed out my designs. I have to say I was stunned with the colors. Although they were printed on Black shirts that didn't have pretreatment, they still look great. Even though their system can print only 1 item at a time which I didn't mine. If you want to go into production, you can buy extra platens, so you will always have shirts at the ready. So, Now I guess you want to hear who has the best of the best printers. I will get to that in a sec. I went to see if the guys who Introduced me to the DTG World was there and sure enough they where. I went to introduce myself to them. They had hear about me so I told them they where the first ones who turn me on to the DTG world. They had all 3 machines there! I was stunned and still amazed at what DTG Machines can do. I know all about that company too. So, I didn't get anything printed from them because I know the quality of what their FREE JET 330 TX, FREE JET 500 TX and Their FREE JET 700 TX Printers can do. If I had not seen who I'm about to say first then, I would hands down go with A FREE JET. Why? well it is simple. I like their Vibrant, colors. I like the Sharp Text. I like their large size. Athough they did my samples first. I was going to buy from them. I truly was. I really like their RIP Software. You find your drive(where the artwork is stored) find the Printer(which happens to be FREE JET) make sure the table is level, put your shirt on and then hit print. It was very fast for my white shirt sample, it as a bit slower only because it was doing my sample on a black shirt that as you know requires a White Under base. I ask the Tech who happens to be Jose Haro. "What Do I need To Do At The End Of The Day" He showed me what I needed to do. It has what he called A Wet Cap System(Please look it up on their site) He showed me what I needed to do. It was very easy. The RIP software is very easy to use. They even let me print out my design. How cool is that. Like I stated earlier they where the first ones to Introduce Me To The DTG Print World. So, Naturally I'm going to gravitate to them cause they impressed me first. I told them I would return later. They said ok! "Come Back" I then walked around to the the Brother. I know the guys there too. Next to Brother was Kornit Breeze. I just walked by them. I didn't even stop. I saw in the distance there was ANA Jet. I kept on walking. I came up this booth right on the corner. There was some activity there so I stopped. I checked out their wall of what they had done, and right away I knew I had found it! You will know if you have found It! when you see it. I saw it! I was drawn to it! What was I drawn too you ask? Why my name! LOL it was on a Blue Board that said Atigerwanabee. I ask who the hell did that? and Peter! I love that guy told me "Oh you are atigerwanabee" I said Yes I am he" We hit it off! I went and had a blast with the whole crew. I'm mad as heck now? Oh no! Why am I mad? Because I should have won that dang belt. My design was way better than Justin Walkers. LOL Or at least in my mind it was" LOL So, here it is in a nutshell" I found it! and it is called NEO FLEX. If I knew how to post pictures here I would show you my designs. Heck even Justin Walker, John the computer guy, Justin Choi, his brother. They all liked my designs "I SHOULD HAVE WON" LOL Sorry for the long messege. Also, Matt that had the samples who earlier told about his experiences was spot on about NEO FLEX. So, I don't have to go on and on about it. I liked his design. I was amazed at how different each sample was from the other. When he showed the One from Brother, AnaJet, and the closest to the real deal was the Belquette. Dang! will someone show me or tell me how to post pictures! Everyone is showing off their stuff and I can't. “Oh Never Mind” It was staring me right in the face”Duh! LOL


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

paragraphs are your friend........


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

sodrisc said:


> paragraphs are your friend........


 He's so excited he doesn't stop for air


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

And Yes! I did come up for air! LOL And Yes! Paragraphs are my friend. I didn't like Writing School as you can tell. LOL I was trying to write a book about my experiences. I have to change my writing technique too. Thanks for the advice. KISS is what it is all about huh!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Amir,
Please do not discourage by your English. Yours are much better than mine. Somebody who making issue on your English should have second thought about how the people think who does not have good English. You are doing very well and I did understand all. I don't care you buying or not buying NeoFlex. This is my opinion who wears same shoes. If you decide to be a NeoFamily I will walk with you side by side. Count on me.
Cheers! My friend.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks my friend! I will never forget you guys over at All American! I just call it like I see it!


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## sodrisc (Apr 6, 2006)

allamerican said:


> Amir,
> Please do not discourage by your English. Yours are much better than mine. Somebody who making issue on your English should have second thought about how the people think who does not have good English.


so paragraphs are unique to the english language are they ? yeah right.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

sodrisc said:


> so paragraphs are unique to the english language are they ? yeah right.


So does using capital letters.  3 places.
Cheers! We will have lagers one day and those are on me.


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm not a grammar freak, but it does make it easier to read if it was paragraphed or double spaced every 2 or 3 lines at least.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

dim116 said:


> I'm not a grammar freak, but it does make it easier to read if it was paragraphed or double spaced every 2 or 3 lines at least.


LOL, 
I agree with you 100% but some people are not capable to do that so. Imagine you are living in countries never use English. It is tuff to who especially used different languages in their grown up time. Big portion of USA citizen's parents and grands are never had good English. My kids read and write perfect plus. I hope they will remember me and help other people like myself or Amir. I wished to read "AJ good points but I had little tuff time to understand you. Can you please use more paragraphs on next post? Lol. Cheers". Won't it be nice?
I'll buy AJ's braveness all day.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

lol man! I will be forever remembered as the guy who should have used more paragraphs. Did Matt use paragraphs when he had the long letter? I don't remember. Perhaps I should read it again! I Love You Guys over at ALL AMERICAN. I can't wait to see you again at the ISS Show next year.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

I should have read what I typed. I type very fast. I should have done a better job but, hey, I typed what I truly felt at the time. I'm not here to give or get Brownie Points( I still don't get that quote or saying) LOL but, I will continue to type as I see fit so there! LOL I love you guys!


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## dim116 (Nov 27, 2006)

Not a big deal. Posting the information is the most important thing. The more info the better.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks a much. They kicked me out of writing school because they said I was writing a book instead of telling my story in a few sentences! LOL Just kidding!


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## DivineBling (Sep 14, 2010)

atigerwanabee said:


> I should have read what I typed. I type very fast. I should have done a better job but, hey, I typed what I truly felt at the time. I'm not here to give or get Brownie Points( I still don't get that quote or saying) LOL but, I will continue to type as I see fit so there! LOL I love you guys!


I'm a grammar nazi to the nth degree. The fact that you said "should have" instead of "should of" speaks volumes. I'd rather look at one large paragraph with proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization than several spaced out paragraphs without. Just sayin'.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm so glad that I didn't become Copy Writer for an Insurance Company!


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## Racer (Aug 25, 2011)

So what everyone wants to know is which DTG printer are you going to purchase?


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

the NeoFlex, of course!


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Wow! Really! I will just say this: If you want Photo quality Prints on Black Shirts, then, NEO FLEX is Hands Down the winner. If you want to "Set It And Forget It" then The Brother GT-381 is your baby. If you want to print without a computer, or if you want to load your shirts on without the use of the Hold Down Hoop then go with the Brother. 

If you want a Beautiful Machine "Eye Candy" that prints Great on Blacks as well as white and the RIP SOFTWARE is really easy to use then, Belquette Inc. MOD One is your baby. And finally, if you want to print only on Black Shirts in High Resolution that will knock "Your Socks Off" Jaw Dropping Colors, rich text, stunning in every way, NEO FLEX is it. But I only print on white shirts for now.


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## VTG (Dec 16, 2010)

atigerwanabee said:


> Wow! Really! I will just say this: If you want Photo quality Prints on Black Shirts, then, NEO FLEX is Hands Down the winner. If you want to "Set It And Forget It" then The Brother GT-381 is your baby. If you want to print without a computer, or if you want to load your shirts on without the use of the Hold Down Hoop then go with the Brother.
> 
> If you want a Beautiful Machine "Eye Candy" that prints Great on Blacks as well as white and the RIP SOFTWARE is really easy to use then, Belquette Inc. MOD One is your baby. And finally, if you want to print only on Black Shirts in High Resolution that will knock "Your Socks Off" Jaw Dropping Colors, rich text, stunning in every way, NEO FLEX is it. But I only print on white shirts for now.


AJ, you _do_ know that the NeoFlex will print high-resolution, photo-realistic images on more than just _black_ shirts ... right?


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Of course I do! I was just responding to a question about what kind of DTG printer 23 Spiderman was going to buy, or was that question from RACER directed towards me. I know all about the NEO FLEX DTG Printer


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Amir,
You are real noise maker, I mean in good way. Cheers!
If your plan is white color only as you mentioned and no plan expend to dark think about Brother 541, EasyT or EQ V1. Fairly inexpensive and reviews are good. Or most printers in Jungle can be change to CYMK+CYMK. It will gives you speed also.
I love to read your post with many paragraphs. Maybe too many now? Join the club. You are real piece of work(good way). I do wish your best success! You will! If you need your picture I took with your favorite shirts on send me your email address. it looks nice and funny.
Now it is time to start new thread Atlanta ISS show 9/7-9/8 and let's see we will have one of you there.
Cheers! Beers are on me always even though you are not a drinker  I don't need to spend penny.
PS: 23spiderman already have printers.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Yeah! I want the Picture! Please send it to me. Also I was only commenting on someone asking me a question about White T-Shirts. Since I never got my designs on white shirts I didn't know what yours would look like.

Now, that I have you here I'm going to send for some samples that NEO FLEX has on whites. I know what to expect from you guys. Only the best quality. I just want to see the other side of the Black Graments that you guys are truly famous for. Just a thought. And what do you think of me using Paragraphs? You can read them now right? LOL I love you guys over at NEO FLEX.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

FYI :

Quote: Originally Posted by greenmachine	

Any reason You are not allowing a contest for printing on white shirts?	

Rodney's reply.

Most DTG printers can handle printing on white t-shirts pretty well. 

The real challenge for DTG printers is printing on black/darks 

If a DTG printer can print on blacks well, it stands to reason that the same printer can print on whites equally as well (if not better). Unfortunately, the reverse is not true Hence, the contest.

NeoFather: I do agree 100% and you should too.  cuz you and I both having same problem.  yours are little better than mine.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

allamerican said:


> FYI :
> 
> Rodney's reply.
> 
> The real challenge for DTG printers is printing on black/darks


Actually the real challenge is printing on strong coloured shirts other than black. Black is easy.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TPrintDesigner said:


> Actually the real challenge is printing on strong coloured shirts other than black. Black is easy.





TPrintDesigner said:


> Why did you choose a black shirt for this comp? You would be testing the printers abilities to a higher degree if it were on an Irish green or orange etc..
> 
> Black shirt printing is plug and play. That's why 99% of the shirts you see on here are black. Same goes for the stuff they print at shows.





These are your second time with same post. In case you forgot or missed Rodney's reply post



Rodney said:


> You would think so, but just judging from the varied results last year's competition (and what you see at trade shows), that definitely wasn't the case


You should have won Royale back to back to prove you are right. Talk is cheap.
Real is tuff to the person who keeps talking only. At least you should apply this year to prove what you are keep singing. You still have a time to do so.
If you have any excuse not to do this year it will tell us who you are without the a word. Such as too far too busy --etc. lol. I will look for yours when Rodney post them all.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Come to think of it, Yeah! all the shirts that I have noticed at the shows where done on Black! Well, it doesn't matter seeing that folks want Black Shirts. It is a No Brainer to give the customers what they want. The Image looks a whole lot nicer on a Black shirt. I don't know what kind of Black shirt that NEO FLEX uses but, my shirts appeared to "Reach Out And Grab You" I didn't want to print the Bear Design because It might have jump off the shirt and bit someone! I would not be responsible for that! LOL NEO FLEX is "All That, And, A Bag Of Chips" They are lucky I didn't bring out the Bear design!


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## South Beach (Jul 30, 2012)

I am a little late in the game responding to this but ... great review and fantastic pic for a test. The results are very revealing and justify your choice for a printer. I currently have a Brother 541 and like it, but am looking for a printer to do darker shirts. I recently looked at the Brother 381 but they were not set up and could not do a test print for me, but after looking at your test results I may have second thoughts about that printer, with its price tag! Any way I am going to hold off buying a new printer until I can get test prints done myself with the pic of my choice. Thanks for the great work.


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## atigerwanabee (Sep 30, 2011)

Wait! Now! if you like what the Brother does and still continue to do then buy it. The New Brother GT-381 ( 4channel) 4 Whites 4 Colors can do Black shirts. As you know, Brother has no RIP SOFTWARE. You find your design, you find the Brother printer and you make the image whatever size you want, and then you print. It is easy. 

Now, as you are aware, you don't need a computer either. You just plug a usb device and you can start printing. Easy! The ease of use when you load and unload shirt is Easy. You are aware at how reliable it is. You know it is a workhorse. What you do or don't know is the price! $34,500 or is it $35,000. 

You have to decide if you want a One Pass Printing which they have. You have to decide if you just want it to just print without you going in and making changes to the art, colors, text etc. You have to know that you want reliability. You have to know if you want a printer with RIP or without. 

It is your call. If you are familiar with the Brothers please ask them for samples of your file. Get your file printed with a white shirt Pretreated and a white shirt with no pretreatment.


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

allamerican said:


> You should have won Royale back to back to prove you are right. Talk is cheap.
> Real is tuff to the person who keeps talking only. At least you should apply this year to prove what you are keep singing. You still have a time to do so.
> If you have any excuse not to do this year it will tell us who you are without the a word. Such as too far too busy --etc. lol. I will look for yours when Rodney post them all.


Wind your neck in Peter. The Brother gamut is not as wide as Dupont based printers so there is no chance a Brother would win.

My point is that rips and drivers handle black shirts with ease. The game changes if you print a colour like Irish Green with transparencies and fade outs. Tell me why salesmen at events are always printing black shirts, is it coincidence ? If the contest used a green shirt then it would test the skill of the operator to a higher degree.

Potential customers should know this kind of information. Don't get upset if I make it public.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

TPrintDesigner said:


> Wind your neck in Peter. The Brother gamut is not as wide as Dupont based printers so there is no chance a Brother would win.
> 
> My point is that rips and drivers handle black shirts with ease. The game changes if you print a colour like Irish Green with transparencies and fade outs. Tell me why salesmen at events are always printing black shirts, is it coincidence ? If the contest used a green shirt then it would test the skill of the operator to a higher degree.
> 
> Potential customers should know this kind of information. Don't get upset if I make it public.


I wind in all. Not just neck. Lol
I know you will come out some sort of excuse. I knew it. Typical example of ---.
Did you ever hear Winner have excuse? Please read again my previous post. At least you did not choose Too Far or Too busy.lol. Another word you will not apply again but black print is too easy to print. Hence, so it is not worth to apply. LMAO
I experienced many people who never stop with excuses. I hope you are not one of them.
What Rodney term is. Biggest you can: not big image will win, print biggest you can with their printer. There will be no points plus or minus on size. If brother is 13" just do the max. If you do 9" yes deduction while you can do 13".
When image gets larger an little off registration will show. This is why Rodney add in.
It is same example again. You make words on there was none. I am 100% sure on my word. Size don't matter on sxx.
Just step up than winding and whinning and look for excuses. 
Just say, "OK, I will send my black shirts to TSF. I will show you how easy it is". In this case I will respect you whole lot more than now. Either win or not is not the point. It shows you trust yourself.
I like my name put on my profile while you do not. You know who I am, I don't know who you are but i know who cried two years in a row. I can win but it is too easy? Common. You are kind a person who never admit on anything. I met you before in many different bodies. 
It is not too late to apply EASY PRINT, did you ever say Easy to make money too? Just curious.
While many TSF members are sweating to print best black shirts to Win Royale contest you are saying "TOO EASY". This is my point. Nothing to do with equipment. Sit back and think about it. Don't fight when you are wrong. You should say running 100meter is too easy to be in Olympic because you can run that far easy. You will be on the NEWS. BBC. CBS.
I have no idea on your last sentence but very typical expression of from one of you. I have no hidden or cooking agenda like you. Please use old threaten skill some where else like a chicken farm or etc. NEVER IN JUNGLE! You will get hurt or chewed up. LMDAO(D stands for double, I made up like you instead of F)
You sound like you are giving up to apply. It is shame but I wish you watching people's hard effort and send cheers instead ---.
Cheers! Still beers are on me always.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

atigerwanabee said:


> Wait! Now! if you like what the Brother does and still continue to do then buy it. The New Brother GT-381 ( 4channel) 4 Whites 4 Colors can do Black shirts. As you know, Brother has no RIP SOFTWARE. You find your design, you find the Brother printer and you make the image whatever size you want, and then you print. It is easy.
> 
> Now, as you are aware, you don't need a computer either. You just plug a usb device and you can start printing. Easy! The ease of use when you load and unload shirt is Easy. You are aware at how reliable it is. You know it is a workhorse. What you do or don't know is the price! $34,500 or is it $35,000.
> 
> ...


 
AJ... buddy.. 

The GT 361 is 21,995
The GT 381 is $24,995

why do you keep posting it is $35,000 ?
$10,000 more than the most expensive GT model.
someone giving you bad info?


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

Brother USA MSRP pricing.

GT 341 CMYK $19,995
GT 361 W+W+ CMYK 21,995
W x4 + CMYK $24,995

They do Charge for set up and training.

I'd also hate to see repeated posts that Neoflex is $30,000.
Any miss information just leads some to believe you can't believe all that you read here.. not that you should always believe all that you read here..lol.

Great to hear on the Sahara.
Can you post specs on here ?
Or on a thread started "Curing DTG Inks with New Sahara 6" ?
Then list specs ?
dimensions.?
weight.?
power requirements.?
3 phase to single phase converter avail ??
Cure times for W+CMYK ?

Personal observations with regards to washability and colour retention?

Could be a long thread..lol.


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

stevegamble said:


> Brother USA MSRP pricing.
> 
> GT 341 CMYK $19,995
> GT 361 W+W+ CMYK 21,995
> ...


I agree that we should be sharing the most accurate numbers possible, but it is tough because the prices on some machines do seem to fluctuate depending on when and whom you ask. Also, when a machine requires you to purchase add-ons (RIP software, setup / training, special accessories, etc) I think it should be mentioned in or with the list price. For instance when I bought my Kornit the price was "X", but by the time I added the RIP, dryer, shipping and everything else that was required, the cost went up dramatically (the "total cost to take it home" was much more than just the machine price).

Any idea what they charge for setup / training? I doubt it would account for the large discrepancy you pointed out, but perhaps AJ was simply estimating the "total cost to take it home" rather than the list price for the printer itself?

Either way, thanks for posting the info!


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## Justin Walker (Dec 6, 2006)

TPrintDesigner said:


> Actually the real challenge is printing on strong coloured shirts other than black. Black is easy.


Based on everything I have seen in this industry thus far, even black shirt printing is not "easy" for many people; however, I agree with your premise that strong colors (such as RED, ORANGE or ROYAL BLUE) are generally more difficult than basic black tees. I would love to see DTG manufacturers printing these colors at the trade shows to demonstrate how different they can potentially look, when compared to prints on black tees.

Aside from providing a better base color for printing (it is easier to mask black fabric with white ink than it is to mask red fabric with white ink), black shirts tend to be "less complicated" than colored shirts for the most part because most manufacturers have spent years dialing in the process on black shirts, leaving the rest of the spectrum for the end users to "figure out". Most color profiling is done on black shirts (very few take the time to create specific color profiles for different color groups) and most RIP's have been calibrated to allow the user to easily knock out the black background color (not always as simple when it comes to other colors / shades).

So basically I agree that black garments are traditionally less complicated and more trouble-free than printing on other colors, although I wouldn't go so far as to say that black shirt printing is "easy"!


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

Prices are NON Negotioble, Brother pretty firm on keeping their dealers all level with pricing.
Their is a lot of Brother Dealers out their, so to keep a level playing field this makes sense.

The install fee is for 2 days of training.
The open the crate and build, set it up, do tests that all parts A-Ok on day one.
Day two is printing, maintenance, trouble shooting, software, etc..
This cost is $1500.00 non negotiable.

It Does Include a start up kit, inks, cleaners, and a nice Custom Stand in its price.

Shipping is dependent on location and pretty much just standard rates.

I do NOT own brother, I just did the research.

So you may as well say a GT 381 top model is $26,500.00 plus shipping.
plus tax.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

Justin Walker said:


> Based on everything I have seen in this industry thus far, even black shirt printing is not "easy" for many people; however, I agree with your premise that strong colors (such as RED, ORANGE or ROYAL BLUE) are generally more difficult than basic black tees. I would love to see DTG manufacturers printing these colors at the trade shows to demonstrate how different they can potentially look, when compared to prints on black tees.
> 
> Aside from providing a better base color for printing (it is easier to mask black fabric with white ink than it is to mask red fabric with white ink), black shirts tend to be "less complicated" than colored shirts for the most part because most manufacturers have spent years dialing in the process on black shirts, leaving the rest of the spectrum for the end users to "figure out". Most color profiling is done on black shirts (very few take the time to create specific color profiles for different color groups) and most RIP's have been calibrated to allow the user to easily knock out the black background color (not always as simple when it comes to other colors / shades).
> 
> So basically I agree that black garments are traditionally less complicated and more trouble-free than printing on other colors, although I wouldn't go so far as to say that black shirt printing is "easy"!


 
Glad to see this brought up.
90% of our orders come in on blue's and red's.
And now more and more, bright colour shirts (trend).
lime etc..
So..
Once again a rip that can compensate ?
or is it multi white base layer?
Who's white ink stays whiter on red shirts before laying the CMYK on top ?

time to start a thread, few photo's?

Another Variable into which printer/ink combo to commit to.


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## 23spiderman (Jun 26, 2008)

Steve, i commend you for your endless research, but there's photos EVERYWHERE on these forums. in the NeoFlex section you can see all kinds of different shirts of different colors. Justin Walker has some photos of different color shirts and there is someone who did several prints on different blue shirts.

white ink is white ink. if you have fades occurring on red shirts, white gradients can look kind of "pink" especially if the ink isn't well mixed. but usually the "pink" is an optical illusion from the red shirt showing through. generally if you get a sufficient white underbase, your CMYK layer should look good.

of course, all the samples you are getting done from different manufacturers should be done on the color of shirt that you will most likely print! that way you can gauge what the differences are. in my opinion, you won't find a better combo (printer, RIP, customer service, price) than the NeoFlex.


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## stevegamble (Apr 14, 2010)

C'mon..endless? Honestly I'm just Libra..lol.

Engraving Epilog
Embroidery Tajima
Print/cut Roland
all seemed so easy. (except Roland..as Mimaki's new printers gave a run)..

Seems the new garment printers all command a hard look, and are a different beast.
Just larger differences from A to B and nobody has it all just yet.


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## kevrokr (Feb 26, 2007)

Justin Walker said:


> I would love to see DTG manufacturers printing these colors at the trade shows to demonstrate how different they can potentially look, when compared to prints on black tees.


We did bring some different color shirts to a couple of shows, but most people were only interested in seeing prints on black shirts (they really didn't want to see any other color shirt be printed).

We do show shirts of various different colors in our booth, and alot of people walk by and ask "...so yours prints on other colors too?"...so it's hard to gauge if it would be effective or not.


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## TPrintDesigner (Sep 16, 2007)

kevrokr said:


> We did bring some different color shirts to a couple of shows, but most people were only interested in seeing prints on black shirts (they really didn't want to see any other color shirt be printed)..


Kudos for having guts to do it. The issue here is that customers at your show were probably not aware that printing onto multiple coloured shirts would be any different to black or white.

I would ask anyone going for a demo to provide your own shirts in 6 different colours and take artwork that consists of transparancies, fade outs and gradients. Also take another artwork file of a fine lined grid that covers the whole of the printers maximum platen to test registration. Make sure you time the printing of 6 shirts from the point of opening up the art to curing the final one. Compare the pre-treat times as well.

Edited to clarify.. The coloured shirts are not to show how well the white masks out the shirt, it's to show you how well the rip/driver can translate the transparency and fade outs of artwork onto the shirt.


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## rogerholien (Aug 26, 2010)

were these pictures taken and printed on the Neoflex? Just wondering. I am deciding between the Mod1 and Neoflex. Most of my screen printing work is basic 1-3 color work for churches, businesses, ets. Was wondering if Neoflex might be over kill for me vs Mod1


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