# IronAll Fading--Is this much fading the norm? And acceptable?



## The Sandbox (Mar 3, 2007)

Hi Guys--

The pressing information--370 Degrees, 17 Secs, IronAll paper (printed with Epson C88 in Photo Setting), medium pressure. I washed in cold water, inside out, tumble dry low.

The picture below is the before and after results. Is this sort of fading the norm? It seems excessive and I do not know if I am doing something wrong, or if this is just the expected and acceptable results of using IronAll (actually, Everlast Soft from Coastal with the blue back).

If the fading is due to what you see might be a pressing problem, please advise on what adjustments you would recommend.

Thanks!!


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## Peanutz (Feb 14, 2007)

From experience, some fading is gonna happen no matter what. Your picture does seem to have faded more than the norm. Are you using dye ink or pigment ink? If you're using dye ink, that's the first thing I'd change. I don't know if pressure has a lot to do with the fading.

In addition, I press my iron all transfers at 375 degrees for 25 seconds.

Ryan


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## The Sandbox (Mar 3, 2007)

Yes, Durabrite Ink


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## gypsysurfer (Feb 12, 2007)

It could be down to the washing powder you use. If you wash yor clothes with a 'bio' washing powder this will fade your clothes as it contains a bleaching agent. It is a problem I encountered for a while. Now I make sure I send washing instructions with all my shirts directing to use a 'non-bio' washing powder & there is a big difference.

Stevo


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## monkeylantern (Oct 16, 2005)

Don't non-bios usually contain a greater degree of bleaching agent, to counteract the lack of enzyme action?


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## gypsysurfer (Feb 12, 2007)

From what I understand (not much) is that bio's contain a bleaching agent & non bio's dont. I dont know the ins & outs but I did recently print 2 identical shirts & washed one with bio & the other non-bio & there was significantly more fading with the bio washing powder.
Steve


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## snarley (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi Andy,

How long did you wait before you washed your shirt? The directions I have say to wait at least 24 hours. I have used both dye-based and pigmented inks with my Epson 2200 on IronAll and have had good results with both. They will fade a little after washing but I haven't had any complaints yet.

Bill M


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## The Sandbox (Mar 3, 2007)

Good morning--

Thanks for the feedback. I'm using ALL Free and Clear, and waited more than 24 hrs to wash.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

First, don't print in photo mode. Reduce your printing to text/photo. You are adding too much ink. This paper does not absorb the ink as other types of light transfer paper does. If you notice after printing the transfer the ink is not drying very fast. One thing you may want to do is place the transfer under your press if it is on while you print the next print. By the time your print is done the transfer on the press will be dry. I received some new ink to try from a vendor that is supposed to reduce the wash-ability and fading problems with a special technique. I had problems with my cartridges so I am waiting for new ones. I will be doing a test and sending the result to you guys here. If this works as my supplier says it does then I will also post where I bought it from. Lou


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## MYDAMIT (Jan 14, 2007)

Maybe You Can Try To Change Your Ink,try Using Magic Mix Or Any Heat Transfer Ink Like Everlast Ink. Because It Happen To Me With Durabrite I Have The Same Result Like You Posted(to Much Fade).now I'm Using Everlast Ink From Coastal Less Fade.


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## toastynhere (Mar 24, 2007)

I am also still having a bit of the same trouble. I've been working with my new Mighty Press, and have done some tests and am running them through the wash right now. The only thing I haven't done is waited 24 hours to wash them. Is this written somewhere for IronAll? I remember when I used heat transfers from Bestblanks.com, I'd have to wait 24 hours to wash. Maybe I answered my own question! Will press again and then wait to wash. 

any more advice is welcome! Below is the latest test run I what I pressed and how. Just trying to get a feel for it. 

light pressure - 350 - 16 sec and 22 sec
light pressure - 360 - 16 sec and 22 sec
medium pressure - 350 16 and 22 sec
medium pressure - 360- 16 and 22 sec
Heavy pressure - 350- 16 and 22 sec
Heavy pressure - 360 - 16 and 22 sec

Kevin


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## Savannah Dan (Mar 27, 2006)

I use pigmented inks, ironall, and an epson 1280. I was having the same problem. Found that I was not using enough pressure. Ink was getting 'on' the shirts, but not 'in' them. Also, the fuzzier the shirt is, the more washed out the design will look after washing. To find out if this is your issue, press the shirt again. If it sharpens back up, fuzz is your problem. Kind of like trying to see through dirty glasses.


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## transfer fun (Aug 17, 2006)

Time and tempature. 375-400 degrees a must, 25-30 seconds is very important as well. Medium pressure is important, but not as critical. This info is straight from the manufactorer.


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## DMS (Jan 28, 2007)

For this particular post I guess that the Ink must be the issue but detergents are a variable that we don't control well. I'm going to check upon the bio issue and see if I can bring some "light" on that issue. I had the idea that ecological detergents had less phosphates, causing less polution but with lower "washing power".


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

toastynhere said:


> I am also still having a bit of the same trouble. I've been working with my new Mighty Press, and have done some tests and am running them through the wash right now. The only thing I haven't done is waited 24 hours to wash them. Is this written somewhere for IronAll? I remember when I used heat transfers from Bestblanks.com, I'd have to wait 24 hours to wash. Maybe I answered my own question! Will press again and then wait to wash.
> 
> any more advice is welcome! Below is the latest test run I what I pressed and how. Just trying to get a feel for it.
> 
> ...


I never press more than 16 second at 375 and med to heavy pressure. I have yet to have a problem with that.


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## toastynhere (Mar 24, 2007)

Lou,
I have tried this and am still having trouble. I'm starting to wonder if it's my washer. I have a front loader and think it's "rough" on our clothes. I am trying different detergents as well. 

I recently had an order for 20 Relay for Life shirts...for my school. After my shirt cools from the press, how much "hand" do you feel. I've noticed that when the shirt cools, I notice the image much more and the "hand" isn't as soft. After I wash them, the hand is wonderful, but then I have fading issues. I will take some pics tonight and post them to show you what I'm talking about. 

It seems like the image "rubs" off when I wash it and it's not set into the shirt. Still trying to figure it out. I even had some old bestblank.com transferjet paper and printed the exact same image and then washed it together with my ironall press. the bestblank paper had no fading at all....the hand isn't quite as soft, still nice, but the image is flawless. The IronAll pressed shirt faded slightly. I washed in cold, delicate cycle and did not use fabric softener. My detergent was Wisk. 

Any advice on detergents or wash cycle is needed. I'm doing a run of 75 shirts tonight for my Track and Field Day Event for my fifth graders, but have decided to use the bestblank paper for this run until I figure the IronAll out. You can't beat how soft it is to the touch.

One last thing...I'm using 50/50 Jerzee blend and I'm wondering if I need to go to 100% cotton. I wonder if the 100% cotton takes the image better? Any ideas or experiences?

thanks for all the help everyone. 

Kevin


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## toastynhere (Mar 24, 2007)

One other question:

Are you supposed to wait a certain amount of time before washing the shirt? Would that change how the transfer washes? 

Kevin


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## snarley (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi Kevin,

All of the instructions that I have read say, Do not wash for 24 hours.

And usually list several other things to do, such as:

1. Wash in cold water with a mild detergent and no bleach
2. Turn the shirt inside out before washing
3. Remove washed shirt immediately from the spin cycle of the washer
4. Do not leave in washer for any extended period of time
5. Tumble dry shirt using low temp

I hope this helps and Good Luck with your transfers

Bill M


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## transfer fun (Aug 17, 2006)

Here is the instruction sheet that I go off of. also, are you using the blueish backing, or the sheet with the black line?


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## toastynhere (Mar 24, 2007)

I will try those suggestions. Thank you.

Also, I am using the blue backing IronAll as well. I want to go to the grocery and look for different detergent.

I'll keep you posted.

Kevin


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

snarley said:


> And usually list several other things to do, such as:
> 
> 1. Wash in cold water with a mild detergent and no bleach
> 2. Turn the shirt inside out before washing
> ...



Personally, I tend to ignore these lists - because I know a lot of my customers will too. The only care instruction most people give any weight to at all is 'dry clean only'. If my shirts don't look good after being washed right-side out in hot water, then they're not good enough.


As far as the IronAll fading, I've heard at least one or two other similar reports before. Something to the extent of 'IronAll is softer, but TransjetII gives more vibrant colors'. As with most things, it's going to be a bit of a tradeoff; what works best for one person and their customers may not for everyone.


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## toastynhere (Mar 24, 2007)

Where do you order your TransjetII from? I'm still trying all sorts of different papers and trying to get something I'm satisfied with, but wasn't sure where to get the best pricing?

Kevin


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## jclynn67 (Mar 11, 2007)

Twinge said:


> Personally, I tend to ignore these lists - because I know a lot of my customers will too. The only care instruction most people give any weight to at all is 'dry clean only'. If my shirts don't look good after being washed right-side out in hot water, then they're not good enough.
> 
> 
> As far as the IronAll fading, I've heard at least one or two other similar reports before. Something to the extent of 'IronAll is softer, but TransjetII gives more vibrant colors'. As with most things, it's going to be a bit of a tradeoff; what works best for one person and their customers may not for everyone.


Twinge, 
May I ask you what paper/ink/printer/shirt you are using that you can wash without fading? I am still a newbie and trying different products to try to get a tshirt that won't fade out after one wash. Willing to pay more for a product that actually works. Not able to wash money down the drain continually with products that don't work.

Thanks a million,
Jody


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

toastynhere said:


> Where do you order your TransjetII from?
> Kevin


Coastal Business Supplies carries it. You can find their link to your left under the forum vendors. Also, TLM Supply House carries MagicJet which is supposedly the same paper.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

jclynn67 said:


> Twinge,
> May I ask you what paper/ink/printer/shirt you are using that you can wash without fading? I am still a newbie and trying different products to try to get a tshirt that won't fade out after one wash. Willing to pay more for a product that actually works.



Currently, I'm just using MagicJet (TJII) paper with OEM Durabrite ink. We're printing from an Epson CX5400 (I think? Not at home to check currently), and we usually use either the Gilan Ultra shirts or Hanes Silver Relaxed Fit. When printing, I color shift Yellow -15, Cyan +5, and Magenta +5.

The image will fade a bit with this set up, but not drastically -- and it only fades gradually, not right after the first wash.

In the hopefully not-too-distant future, the plan is to use bulk Magic Mix inks with a C88+, on the same paper and shirts. At that point (we'll also be getting some other new equipment), I'll throughly wash test different times, temps, papers, pressures, etc. =)




queerrep said:


> Coastal Business Supplies carries it. You can find their link to your left under the forum vendors. Also, TLM Supply House carries MagicJet which is supposedly the same paper.



It is the same paper. They even sold it under Transjet II until there were some sort of licensing issues with it and they had to change the name. TLM is where I'm getting my paper from; as mentioned, Coastal also sells it, and a few other places as well. I think Imprintables even has a version as well, but I'm not certain.


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## sharon50 (Apr 16, 2007)

I have been having a problem with ink wash out also. I am using epson 1280 printer with coastal everlast soft inkjet paper and the cis everlast pig. ink and the 1st wash fades really bad. It looks really good when I transfer it. I have tried different settings but nothing works. Now I am trying Transferjet paper with the coastal ink and it washes really well, can't see any fading at all, but it cracks when you stretch it. Even before you wash it it will crack. Any suggestions? Thanks Sharon


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

sharon50 said:


> I have been having a problem with ink wash out also. I am using epson 1280 printer with coastal everlast soft inkjet paper and the cis everlast pig. ink and the 1st wash fades really bad. It looks really good when I transfer it. I have tried different settings but nothing works. Now I am trying Transferjet paper with the coastal ink and it washes really well, can't see any fading at all, but it cracks when you stretch it. Even before you wash it it will crack. Any suggestions? Thanks Sharon


That's the problem. You have different variables with each paper. At this point I think you should really figure out how your going to use the t-shirt.. is it something someone is going to wear like a work shirt and wash a lot.. then you need to go with plastisol or Vinyl.. I like to think of transfer papers as more of a promotional type of paper. if I get someone, as I do that wants a shirt to sell in their shop I will be up front with them the transfers.. I have a client that gets a lot of shirts done with Iron All but he know these are for his sample so he can get an idea how the look... then he orders them in plastisol. I did a test a week or so called Pigment vs. dye.. why.. and I used everlast dye ink vs a dye ink. I thought the everlast held up pretty good. Lou


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## MYDAMIT (Jan 14, 2007)

toastynhere said:


> Where do you order your TransjetII from? I'm still trying all sorts of different papers and trying to get something I'm satisfied with, but wasn't sure where to get the best pricing?
> 
> Kevin


 
YOU CAN CHECK THIS LINK Ink jet Paper for Inkjet Printers, fine art photo and matte inkjet paper - Inksupply.com


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## CaulkinsGraphics (Jun 12, 2007)

I am having similiar troubles. I used the iron all paper with my cx5000 w/durabrite ink. 1st shirt was washed directly after pressing. This one faded bad. Next shirt was pressed and sat to cure for 24hrs and then washed per directions. Faded even worst than 1st shirt. Now I am really puzzled. Next I printed off the same design with my old HP932 with the regular ink. I washed it immediately after pressing, without turning inside out and added old towels. I figured what the hell. After drying the shirt on full heat, I observed that the only part that faded was the the dark, dark black, and if you lighted up the black 2 levels on the color palette/swatches, you have no fading what so ever. I will try to post some pics this weekend. Not sure what's goin on.

Todd


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## solomonshop (Dec 9, 2006)

Could someone better explain the adjustments (cyan +2 etc) twinge is making with his inkjet transfers.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

solomonshop said:


> Could someone better explain the adjustments (cyan +2 etc) twinge is making with his inkjet transfers.


When you print a design, in the print dialog box, you click on PROPERTIES, then click on ADVANCED, and you should see this screen:


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

I'd been meaning to post a screenshot of that for a while, always forgot to. Might even be worth making a new thread sometime giving a step-by-step for the non computer inclined...


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

How much of a difference in feel is there between the Everlast (IronAll) and Transjet II?

I REALLY like the feel of Everlast, but if it fades that badly, then I need to think about something else.

If none of these work very well I guess I'll just need to start by offering fewer designs and having them done in plastisol. Right now I have 101 designs for a new line with a dedicated website (haven't even set up my site yet), and I wanted to offer as many as possible at first, but I might need to go the plastisol route.

We only bought our C88+ on a whim for this line, so we're not out all that much money.

I wish I'd have gotten a sample of Transjet II in my sample pack from Coastal. 

Anyone care to sell me a few sheets so I don't need to spend $40 just to test it? PM me if you would.


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## MYDAMIT (Jan 14, 2007)

I Think You Can Call Coastal Or Imprintable Or Any Heat Transfer Supply For Sample Pack.then Just Any The One You Like.for Me I Like Ironall Because I Can Iron Them Directly And I Used Heat Transfer Ink, It Less Fade


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Coastal told me that their brand was almost exactly the same thing as TransJet II, so I'm doing a test with that, and with Coastal's opaque paper.

I'll tell you right away that I don't like the feel of their opaque, but it's prolly about the same as any opaque paper.

Well, JetDark is SLIGHTLY less plasticky feeling.

I'll let these sit for 24 hours, then I'll do another wash test.

Lou, how do you get IronAll to not fade so much? Or am I just doing too detailed an image for light transfer paper?


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I was trying to be funny and just did another post where I said if you do want it to fade then put it in a plastic bag so it does not get wet. 

"Coastal told me that their brand was almost exactly the same thing as TransJet II" You don't mean everlast.. that is not true. Everlast and transjet are not even close. In january I did a test and made the same picture with Iron All and Transjet II. Coastal was carring everlast then. I took it to the ISS show and met with Kieth and Wes from Coastal and showed them the difference.. well lets just say when they got back from the show they started carrying Everlast (iron All) transjet II cracked and had a heavy hand.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Actually, no, I wasn't talking about Everlast anymore.  Basically I was saying that, based on someone else's advice, I'm almost ready to give up on IronAll (Everlast) because of the results I got. There's "some fading", then there's just plain unacceptable.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Need to get those larger order and use more Plastisol. Then you really be happy.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Oh, trust me, I'd LOVE to be able to use plastisol!  The way I figured it, I could get them done for about $0.31 per design, so I'm not even worried about cost! 

It's just my designs that are the issue. 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t26522.html

I have an idea for a new line using designs that are basically similar to that one. Very abstract designs.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Oh, now I remember.. yeah I can see your problem. How many of these are you doing?


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

A maximum of 240 per design (except for the one I showed which will be unlimited).


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Chani said:


> A maximum of 240 per design (except for the one I showed which will be unlimited).


Give David Shaw a call on Monday at Ace transfer. He knows the business . he is at Ace transfer Company. Maybe he can help you. You may also look into litho printing and DTG. You might find someone who can do it for you. Iknow for a fact that several of our members do DTG. I think this is an option that has not been directed to you. Not sure. That is a nice size order. OK>> Now I am going to bed.. it is late and I am old..







And I just won my poker tourny while I was answering a lot of these questions..


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Chani said:


> A maximum of 240 per design (except for the one I showed which will be unlimited).


Give David Shaw a call on Monday at Ace transfer. He knows the business . he is at Ace transfer Company. Maybe he can help you. You may also look into litho printing and DTG. You might find someone who can do it for you. Iknow for a fact that several of our members do DTG. I think this is an option that has not been directed to you. Not sure. That is a nice size order. OK>> Now I am going to bed.. it is late and I am old..







And I just won my poker tourny while I was answering a lot of these questions..


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks for answering my questions, Lou. Get some sleep.  I should do the same. 

I'm waiting for F&M to respond back to me after I sent them the full resolution image, but I'll contact Mr Shaw at Ace, too.

I've considered (and been told that it might be an option) DTG, but I don't want to stock any number of particular designs in any number of particular sizes. I just want to be able to get an order, press it, and ship it.  I figured I'd start with 10+1 designs on my site with a couple of different options for each design. That's a lot of initial investment if I go with subbing out DTG compared to inkjet transfers (or plastisol, if possible) and a few of each shirt size and option. 

I don't know anything about lithos. Before I actually research them, can they be heat pressed?

Another idea I had was sublimation, but I want to be able to offer 100% cotton, so I think that's out.

Oops. I've taken this thread WAY off-topic.

Thanks for answering my questions again. I'll talk to my fiance about getting the CIS and Everlast inks.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Chani said:


> Thanks for answering my questions, Lou. Get some sleep.  I should do the same.
> 
> I'm waiting for F&M to respond back to me after I sent them the full resolution image, but I'll contact Mr Shaw at Ace, too.
> 
> ...


Another idea I had was sublimation, but I want to be able to offer 100% cotton, so I think that's out.I think there is a new product called chromoblast for cotton now.


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

Hmmmmmmmm...I might just need to look into that! 

Thanks!


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## Chani (Jun 18, 2007)

I'll think about that one, but after reading about it I'm not as impressed. 

I did another test with Everlast on a District Threads DT204C. I just don't think I can use inkjet transfers for lights with these shirts, which I'm pretty sure will be the shirts I'll be using...

These are strecthy shirts, so my image is really stretched sideways and you can see each individual rib in the shirt.

I will say, tho, that I washed this one in cold water and dried it on low heat and it turned out MUCH better than my last one washed in hot water. I'm just afraid my customers won't follow washing instructions even tho the shirt itself says wash in cold water and dry on low heat.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

Chani said:


> I will say, tho, that I washed this one in cold water and dried it on low heat and it turned out MUCH better than my last one washed in hot water. I'm just afraid my customers won't follow washing instructions even tho the shirt itself says wash in cold water and dry on low heat.



Yeah, I think it's usually best to assume customers will use hot water. You want the shirts to still look good under fairly harsh conditions.


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## jamos (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Everyone

Im having the same problem with IronAll and durabrite Inks, the fading is terrible. My digi-camera is broke at the moment, Id love to post some pics, I washed the tee after a couple days on a cold wash using non bio and the fading was shocking. 

Im using a D88 (uk version of c88) is there better inks than durabright to use on IronAll and also is the thickness of the cotton shirt a factor in 'locking' the ink into the shirt, Im printing to premium fruit of the looms, to be fair Im not very happy with the thickness of the shirt as it is ....

One more question, I wondered why New Milford recommend a much longer press time than Lou does, I pressed my first few shirts as per Lous Youtube vid - 16 sec at 375 , they came out looking wonderfull but after a wash they were really dull and washed out ....

I just wondered what the magic formula was for this paper becuse Im looking to sell prints using IronAll and at the moment I cant see any repeat buisness once a customer has washed thier tee !! please help !!


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## jamos (Sep 5, 2007)

sorry I got to bump this cause Ive 4 t-shirts to make and Im starting to panic, does anyone have some advise on why its fading so much ?


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## prometheus (Oct 19, 2006)

There isn't a magic formula. I think you are expecting too much from the product. I've tried a lot of different recomendations and none of them have seemed to work any better. It's just the bad side of the product.


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## jamos (Sep 5, 2007)

hehe yeah kind of a pretty big bad side ..... thanks anyhow, I think the shirts still look cool , but they have an instant vintage look after one wash, Ive ordered some Gildan premiums and am hoping that better quality cotton will help.


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## Twinge (Apr 26, 2005)

You might also try Transjet II/MagicJet paper. it isn't as soft feeling, but the colors are generally more vibrant and fade less.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I will go with roberts answer on this. I think a lot of you guys a fooling yourself into thinking this paper is going to work for a commercial product. I can but limitations. i doubt a retailer would buy for resale. Now saying that after using the iron all for darks I might rethink some of the product depending on the image placed on the shirt. (Block type prints would work. ) As for twinge recommendations for transjet II.. it does not work for me. I will never use that again. he may have had great results with it but I think it is old school.. I think the paper companies are making big improvements so you may want to try samples of the new products out there.


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## jamos (Sep 5, 2007)

Since posting in this thread I have made some changes to my printing and pressing with the product to try and limit the first fade .... What is the best way to print full color images to cotton ? The prints look fantastic when they first come off the press ...are there other methods of full color tee printing that dont suffer the dreaded fade. Thanks for the feedback guys, Ive got some jobs coming up for bands and other projects and am wondering what route to take.


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