# Amazed at how people are trying take advantage of the economy



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

So Friday I have this customer that I have printed shirts for before ask for a bid on shirts. He wanted Ladies ribbed tanks and full front print in full color. He wanted 100 shirts and needed them by Wed. Which is short notice to begin with.

Anyways I gave him a bid of $7.00 per shirt. The price of the tanks he wanted to use were $4 a piece my price. So I would basically make $3 for my time, picking up the shirts, printing the shirts and delivering them to him. I gave him the price and he said that is way to much in this economy. Its like people think because times are hard, they can bully you into a lower price. Last time I printed this same order for him I had charged him $8.50 per tank, so this was already lower then his last order. 

He waited till today to even respond to my pricing, which puts him needing the shirts in 3 days lol. I cannot believe how people are doing things right now. Lets wait till the last minute, get a rush order, and then also want it cheaper then a cheaper price you are already giving them.

I ended up telling him sorry that is my price and did not budge, I then wished him luck in finding someone who will get that job done for him with a dtg in three days on higher priced tanks, for lower then I quoted him 

I have a feeling he is going to call me back tomorrow, and if he does I will politely decline the job. For me its a matter of principle.

Are others dealing with this as well? People who want to try and pressure lower prices just because they think you will take the job because of the economy?


----------



## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

Good for you! I think we all see people like that. I've got a guy that will not pay over a certain amount per shirt, but I can charge a set up, jacked up art fees etc. to get my hourly fee. If you start caving to these people they'll come back wanting more for less.

Ian


----------



## Pwear (Mar 7, 2008)

I just had a woman email me last Thursday about doing some vinyl work on her company car. 

I quoted her a price, told her that currently there is a 2-day turnaround time to get the graphics and vinyl finalized and a 30 minute turnaround to apply on her vehicle if she had an appointment. 

I get a call from her on Friday afternoon while I'm out of the shop saying that she is at my location, and because I'm not available to do her vehicle at that moment, she will not be using my services. 

Nevermind the request to make an appointment or the 2-day turnaround for art prep before we even have vinyl to apply in the first place


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

It really is amazing how this economy has changed the quality of my customers  Even long time customers are turning to this tactic, even though they have gotten several years of my quality service. Its hard to figure out what goes through their minds


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

zoom_monster said:


> Good for you! I think we all see people like that. I've got a guy that will not pay over a certain amount per shirt, but I can charge a set up, jacked up art fees etc. to get my hourly fee. If you start caving to these people they'll come back wanting more for less.
> 
> Ian


Agreed Ian. You know this was not even including any setup or artwork fees. That was the total price.


----------



## synchtec (Sep 21, 2009)

Profitability in this type of business will definitely suffer and eventually would not be a good business to consider if we cater to these types of customers!!!


----------



## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

You have a product that you are proud of... and the price is the price...
There are plenty of second rate people they can deal with if they choose...
and when they do they will figure out quickly that quality has a price.


----------



## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

The one thing I always stress when we sell a printer to a customer is that you have to learn that sometimes you have to say "No". None of you are in the business of printing t-shirts. You're in the business of making a profit. Unless you fully understand that you will eventually go out of business. Charge what you need to to make a profit. *Never* charge less then that.

There is an old joke that unfortunately I have seen too many people actually fall into:
"I lose a dollar on every order I sell. But I make it up in volume"

Harry
Equipment Zone


----------



## Mistewoods (Jul 7, 2007)

Maybe if he calls back you could say- oh I am so terribly sorry- you missed the preferred customer discount I was giving you because it does not apply to rush orders. The price went back up to the regular price, $8.50. 

In this economy I can't squeeze you in at the last minute very easily, I am way too busy because I guarantee high quality for the dollar 

I don't blame the customer for trying to get a deal in a way...but isn't it good that you know your limits and stick to them with a huge smile!?!


----------



## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

I am new to DTG printing but I have been in the embroidery business for 5 years now. I have seen long time loyal customers come in and ask for lower prices. 

You are correct it is the economy driving this issue but I disagree that it is just greedy customers trying to take advantage of a weak economy. These people have businesses to run and need to cut their cost whenever possible. Even in my embroidery business I have found myself searching for cheaper suppliers. 

The slow economy is hitting everyone and we are all looking for ways to cut cost. Don’t take it personal if a long time customer starts shopping around for a lower price. I agree that you need to have a no lower than price but just like 99% of all other industries the economy will have an impact on your price.


----------



## gemais (Jan 27, 2008)

I have found that embroidery has been hit the hardest. Everyone got on the bandwagon, started cutting prices to the point that it is really not worth doing the work. We have decided to sell off our 6 Head that is virtually brand new, but it has not worked for 6 weeks. There is far more profit in out small pad printing, screenprinting, sublimation and our new Roland Digital printer. It does hurt to let it go but I dont think Embroidery will ever be like it was 20 years ago.


----------



## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

gemais said:


> I have found that embroidery has been hit the hardest. I dont think Embroidery will ever be like it was 20 years ago.


I agree, 10 years ago everyone outsourced their digitizing. I was making more money digitizing for other embroidery shops than I was selling my own designs. I purchased a single head Toyota machine just to test sew my designs and custom digitizing work. It seems now that most shops do their own digitizing. I had to start offering embroidery service as well as digitizing to make ends meet. Now I make the majority of my income from the embroidery.
I was looking at adding another embroidery machine but decided it was time to diversify so I branched out into the DTG industry. I hope to add a rhinestone machine and vinyl cutter by the end of the year.


----------



## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I've also had people asking for the same prices that they see advertised for off-shore companies... go ahead, order from them and wait 4 weeks for it to be delivered....

I have a summer vacation rental and it's always been booked every summer. This year, it was empty for 3 out of 14 weeks. For every one of those empty weeks, I had at least 10 people call and offer me half or considerable less rather than leave it empty. "in this economy, we're looking for a bargain"... My answer... keep looking. My neighbors unit across the street is half the price. It's also half the size.. give them a call and see if they're interested.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Yep what is funny is that I have printed shirts for these customers over 10 times in two years, so they are aware of my pricing. Its not like I am someone new to them. That is what blew me away with this. Its that it was a long standing customer that was fully aware. Even the normal pricing I gave to them in the past was lower then normal, and it was because it was for the local Alano club, and I know that they work within a budget like any other non profit. This is the full price I was charging, even the design of the wording integrated with their logo, for the specific event they are printing these for. Its just really disturbing to me that a long term customer is jumping on the economy train, when I was already throwing in freebies such as design work.


----------



## dmfelder (Oct 25, 2008)

We're seeing this a lot too with both of our businesses. Our custom and corporate shirt printing has us scrambling to maintain our "preferred vendor" status. Our internet shirt fulfillment services customers keep asking for lower and lower prices. (The latter seem to think a contract is null and void in a down economy.)

It's not like our suppliers are dropping the prices for blank shirts! 

...and let's not forget that we'd all like to think we provide the best customer service...clearly this economy is making people forget that as well.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Exactly  you hit it on the head. Our prices have not gone down on our supplies, so how do they think we can keep lowering our products. Its beyond me I guess.


----------



## Unik Ink (Nov 21, 2006)

I would present him the amount that he is saving in freebie design work and lowered item cost in as a %. If it is a $700 order and you are throwing in $70 of design work at no cost, and the garment price went from $8.50 to $7.00, you can let him know that he is receiving a 28% discount (18% price reduction, 10% artwork). I occasionally work out deals with customers that are placing multiple large quantity orders, especially if it is for expensive printing (oversize/all over printing). Hearing the percentages seems to quantify the savings more than actual dollar amounts. People are so used to seeing "clearance sale" type marketing that hearing percentages seems like the deal is better than the actual dollar amount. IMO you are being very generous with that much discount, and I wouldn't budge on the price. I also wouldn't be tacky to them either. As you stated, they are a repeat customer. I would stick to the price, if they accept it fine, it they don't, they don't. If they come to you tomorrow for the last minute order, I would take it, and politely request that any future orders be placed ___ days before the required pick up date to avoid any rush charges. You want to keep your repeat customers happy, but you can't let them walk all over you either. It's a delicate dance.


----------



## Madrod (Jun 27, 2007)

Stick to your guns. once you give them a break they expect it every time. send them my way i can charge $2 each shirt $299.99 for artwork and $199.99 setup. Not to mention the screen fees, film fees, rush fee, LOYAL customer fee, either the the cash, credit, or check fees


----------



## RM5 (May 6, 2009)

sunnydayz said:


> Yep what is funny is that I have printed shirts for these customers over 10 times in two years, so they are aware of my pricing. Its not like I am someone new to them. That is what blew me away with this. Its that it was a long standing customer that was fully aware. Even the normal pricing I gave to them in the past was lower then normal, and it was because it was for the local Alano club, and I know that they work within a budget like any other non profit. This is the full price I was charging, even the design of the wording integrated with their logo, for the specific event they are printing these for. Its just really disturbing to me that a long term customer is jumping on the economy train, when I was already throwing in freebies such as design work.


Atta girl,

Had an order for 300 embroidered about 3 weeks ago. Long story short. Gave em a great price and our embroiderer is second to no one. Without going thru the 15-20 emails and phone calls. They opted to go with a better price from someone I have never heard of. Received a phone call tdy from customer. Guess the shirts they bought didn't work out.


----------



## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

sunnydayz said:


> It really is amazing how this economy has changed the quality of my customers  Even long time customers are turning to this tactic, even though they have gotten several years of my quality service. Its hard to figure out what goes through their minds


Sunny ask yourself this. When you go shopping for clothes, or anything else for that matter, do you just go to one store and buy everything you need or do you shop around and find the best price. 

Why should your customers be any different? Don't you think that your customers are also feeling the economic crunch? Don't you think that their budgets might be getting a little tighter?


----------



## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I too am having customers wanting lower prices,, Everyone is trying to hang on in this economy the best they can,, I guess it cant hurt to ask,, and it is up to us to see if we have any room to budge or not,, If I know someone is hurting in this business, I help them.
You never know when i might need them and they will be there for me.
If someone is just being tight and trying to drive the price down, that is a different story.
We all have alot of friends right here on the forum and elsewhere, that are losing their business's every day in this economy, and because of the economy .
I will give a deal to help someone, and i will give extras here and there to help the bottom dollar but I will stand my ground as well, when i know the profit is tight.
MMM


----------



## RM5 (May 6, 2009)

SickPuppy said:


> Sunny ask yourself this. When you go shopping for clothes, or anything else for that matter, do you just go to one store and buy everything you need or do you shop around and find the best price.
> 
> Why should your customers be any different? Don't you think that your customers are also feeling the economic crunch? Don't you think that their budgets might be getting a little tighter?


With all due respect. I don't mean this in anyway to be insulting. Righto, if you are buying a pair of jeans. Shop around,. If you are buying 450 custom tourney tees and assorted gear for a tourney. Go to Walmart, on a Sunday night. Sure they will they have them there in 7 days.

I agree with Sunny on this one.


----------



## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

Needing to help meet your customer's budget is one thing but from what I read, it is how the customer went about asking for a break. Not responding to the quote until the last minute, not taking into account the current discounts and so forth.

If my clients ask for some pricing help, I offer what I can without a lot of haggling but that is because they asked. I don't budge however if someone tries to "game" me and create a situation designed to make parties make rash decisions.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

This had nothing to do with shopping around. He called me knowing what price I have charged him each and every order. I even gave him a lower price, $1.50 lower then the normal price and was doing the artwork for free. 

If I have dealt with someone before that has done a service for me, and I know their prices, well I would just go shop around somewhere else if I cant afford them. However I am one that believes in loyalty and quality products, and all of my customers know that is what they get from me, each and every time. 

I guess I am not the norm, when it comes to shopping around. I tend to stick with vendors that have provided great service, and I know they have worked hard for the price they charge me  I dont shop around, I know who is reliable and good. If I did not have enough to buy what I need from my vendors, then I would re evaluate my needs and figure out a way to be able to make due with something a little different that would make my money go further. 

In this instance I offered him standard white tees with a full print for $5 per shirt printed, and he would not accept a lower price garment. He wanted the bella ribbed tanks which run $4 a piece. Now this is somewhere where he could have made a concession too  By getting a cheaper garment if he could not afford the higher prices ones. what is that saying, "Champagne taste on a beer budget"? I tried offering him alternative garments that would not cost as much, to make it more affordable, but he was not budging and insisted he could get them cheaper.

Well he did call back today Monday and said you know I changed my mind, and would like to go ahead with the order  I politely told him there was no way I could order the shirts, get them, and get them printed by wed. So now I don't know what he is going to do, but he will have to find some type of solution for himself. 

I know that I provide a good service and my prices are fair, since this is only the second customer in almost four years that I have had any problem with. The first one was just not a good fit for me  and I ended up not doing the job by my choice, not theirs. Now this one, and again I have decided not to take this job at this time. It was not like I did not offer him any other alternative on pricing, I did with a lower priced garment. I am sure next time he needs something printed, he will be easier to deal with, as he learned that I was being fair, but unfortunately for him, the time ran out while he was "shopping around" .


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I been jacking prices up to my locals Ha. and haven't had zero complaints about price.
If they say anything, I say well economy may not be best, but prices for material goods have been jacked up due to import fees, rise in gas ect.
I got loyal customers who don;t scrutinize me on price, all my local people are just old customers I hve had for past 10 years and biz been good in my framing part of business


----------



## RM5 (May 6, 2009)

Totally agree. As we say in the south. That s a **** or shinola dea.


----------



## duca (Jul 24, 2008)

nothing much to say except same experience...


----------



## jbab (Sep 28, 2009)

As a new person thinking about getting into this business, I am thankful that you posted this experience. I have been trying to write a business plan and getting decent information to run my numbers is very difficult. How do you consider your cost per job? I need to make sure my math works out. I certainly can't go by what the machine company's are saying.
Also, while I am not yet in this business, I agree with you completely. One suggestion would be to stay in contact with him because when he goes somewhere else and doesn't get the quality he is used to getting with you, you can win him back, if you want to. Just a suggestion.


----------



## dodank (May 4, 2007)

u go bobbie! i totally agree with u on this one. i have also found myself in several situations like this one.
i mean long long time loyal customers pulling this crap. after all the low ball orders and freebies i have given them. i don't have time for the drama with them. i tell them my vendors are not giving me any discounts and i refuse to pay them for shopping with me. i have turn some away and they returned, whereas some has gone on to cheaper merchants but the results are terrible. when i see what they are getting just by saving maybe 50 cent on a garment, i smile because they just make me a more prouder for the product that i produce. it use to hurt my feelings, but now, no way. it's there dollar, and they have the right to spend it where they please, but i'm not gonna let them take advantage of me when i know i was giving them 110% quality on product.

good luck, hold ur head up and strut because after all that is said and done, lol they will reap what they sow, but they shall return.


----------



## TshirtGuru (Jul 9, 2008)

Happens all the time. Lady called last week asking for personlizations on jerseys, we gave a price and she snickered and mumbled, "Psh! Thought you guys were competitive with your prices." And she just hangs up! Rude....

She called us back 3 times that day, we ignored her calls.  Guess she didn't find anyone to do it?

Regardless of the economy, I think this will happen all the time in our industry. Just move on to the next!


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Yep when he called me back I declined to do his order. For me it was a matter of principle plus when I quoted him, he was already getting a great deal for dtg printing and on short notice. Next time he needs an order, I am sure he will be much easier to work with if he calls me.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I dont know....when you shop for equipment, etc especially today...dont you shop it.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Haha I guess I am a little different. I actually bought all of my equipment from the companies I thought would give me the best support  Although I can see some will shop by price alone.


----------



## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Haha...price alone isnt shopping as we all know, neither is brand. Service is nice until your supplier goes belly up. Shopping is education. I think in this economic market you can expect to get shopped a bit.

I understand the point of the thread and the lowballing customer. Printers have a price point they can sell services and make a living. I just think you can expect of bit of this as folks arent ready to pull the trigger as quickly as when the money is flowing.


----------



## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

That was a damn good price you gave him regardless of the economy. Ink is not getting cheaper for us, and our machines are not magically becoming faster for us just because the economy is bad.


----------



## Omnios (Sep 19, 2009)

Sigh , seems to hold true, I have a window washing business to help me out financially to get into the t-shirt industry and there trying the same things. Anyways found people will try more to get away with these types of tactics more when the eco is bad as opposed to when it is good. The t-shirt industry is a gray area with lack of knowledge other than the people doing it and they have no idea as to the cost of shirts etc or even the difference in different in number of colors or types of prints. They figure its a $2 shirt and your making a fortune or they really do not care. Education is important in this respect. Problem with cutting prices like this is they expect it everywhere and always so not good for business overall. If your going to do it the you are saving 20% as a sale thing sounds good as it states this is not my price but you are getting a sale becuase once they get a $4 shirt they will expect it all the time even if its a simple design then they want a ink extencive expencive to print design. 

As for my window washing I am keeping my prices fairly low so if they want to do this they can enjoy there dirty windows.


----------



## BRoeAZ (Aug 22, 2009)

Sometimes you'll get customers that are like "professional bargin hunters" that will brag to their friends on the "deal" they just got out of you. That can come back and bite you in the a**. Because you'll get other customers wanting the same "deal"! I learned this the hard way! Now, I keep a deck of cards close by, when one of them "professional bargin hunters" walk in wanting a "deal", I slap the deck of cards down with a sly smile, and tell them, you want a deal? Here's a deck of cards, you want shirts? Here's my pricelist, with a breakdown on all discounts per quantity ordered. Just to let you know, I haven't ever had this situation come up with a new customer, it always is with repeat customers. I also, hate this reply, " so and so down the street, gave this quote" (which is never in writing!) I just laugh and ask, "then why are you here?" 
Bottom line is, people are always looking for a "bargain". I always stick with the old saying (and let the customer know) You get what you pay for!


----------



## SickPuppy (Aug 10, 2009)

As economic times get tough and we as consumers have less and less disposable income we are forced to shop for cheaper alternatives.

We start buying generic brands and trying things that we normally would consider too cheap. This is normal behavior; it is not some tactic that consumers use to take advantage of businesses during a recession.
If you offer a quality products and good customer service your customers will return as the economy recovers. What you have to do in the meantime is find a way to remain competitive and survive the recession. 

This is the reason I have branched out from embroidery into DTG printing. My largest customer is telling me they can no longer afford to have their shirts embroidered and now they want to switch to a printed logo. 
Instead of complaining about losing a customer I chose to expand my capabilities and offer them what they want.


----------



## Omnios (Sep 19, 2009)

SickPuppy said:


> As economic times get tough and we as consumers have less and less disposable income we are forced to shop for cheaper alternatives.
> 
> We start buying generic brands and trying things that we normally would consider too cheap. This is normal behavior; it is not some tactic that consumers use to take advantage of businesses during a recession.
> If you offer a quality products and good customer service your customers will return as the economy recovers. What you have to do in the meantime is find a way to remain competitive and survive the recession.
> ...


 True but I think the issue discussed here is that they want the Cadillac at the price of the rags.


----------



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Yup. gotta expand, what I have done 10 times in 9 years, if one thing don't work add another and another, don't feed fuel to a fire that won't last very long, just a waste.
Interent ain't making it better price wise, but most people still tend to buy local and pay that extra premium, I got an internet price and "shop price" which has worked pretty good so far for me


----------

