# Plastisol Heat Transfer Problem - Ryonet's COLD peel heat transfer paper - black ink bleeding and paper sticking



## stevek

I just purchased Ryonet's COLD peel heat transfer paper.
I printed (1-stroke) International Coatings 716 Black ink through a 156 mesh screen onto the heat transfer paper. The ink bled drastically. I heat pressed it anyway to see how this process works. Instructions said to press for 8-10 seconds (I pressed for 10 seconds) and the temperature should be between 350 and 365 (I pressed at 355). The directions also said to COLD peel. (Which I did.) The transfer paper stuck to part of the ink. It was a disaster.
Question #1: How do I keep the 'black' ink from bleeding?
Question #2: How do I keep the transfer paper from sticking to the ink?


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## trebor4278

Not familiar with Ryonet's cold peel paper ,but i have better luck with with coated transfer paper and hot peeling black and dark ink. How quick did ink bleed? Are you sure you used plastisol transfer paper? How did you cure transfer? Only time I have experienced paper sticking to shirt is with inkjet or laser paper.


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## brandedclothing

If I'm printing black transfers I usually use a 300 mesh screen to avoid smearing. A little bit of off contact helps too. 

The paper sticking to the ink is just something you have to play around with to get the correct settings on your heat press. Pretty much ignore the directions and just figure out what works with your equipment. I usually have to press for about 20 seconds at 350 degrees to get the transfers to work correctly.


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## lben

After screen printing the transfers, you should have put the adhesive powder over the transfer and gel cured it. If you over cure the ink, it will stick to the paper and not come off. If it's gel cured properly the ink should peel off the paper. There is also paper that only releases part of the ink, the rest remains on the paper.


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## hswartout

You would be way better off with a coated paper like ryonets premium paper which is really one step papers transal premium and some powder on there. 

Is the ink really runny? is that what you mean by bleeding?

You can call me if you like we print transfers all day long here
541-344-0400


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## stevek

The bleeding occurs during the 1-stroke.
I do put the adhesive powder on the wet ink.
I then run it through my Little Black Buddy heat tunnel with the belt at half speed. I don't know what temperature it gets up to though.
I will burn another screen (a 300 mesh this time) and retest.
Should I use a plastisol thickener or just increase the mesh count?


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## selanac

Stevek, what do you normally run your Belt Speed at for t-shirts? If you're Gel curing you might have to turn up your belt speed.


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## lben

If you are running your transfers through the dryer at 1/2 speed (which I assume is half as fast) that means it is in there twice as long. It should be run through at at least twice the speed. For my flash dryer to cure ink it takes 35 seconds at 3" distance. To gel cure it takes 10-12 seconds at 3".


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## selanac

Loretta, since you cure your Plastisol Transfers with a Flash, how do you prep them for shipping?


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## sben763

Flash drying plastisol transfers is not the same as flashing a shirt. With the hot peel I find that 230-240F for the dryer exit temp works best. Flash curing plastisol transfers with a flash dryer is not a recommended procedure as it requires the longer time especially if your using a transfer additive to the ink to properly gel the ink.


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## wormil

stevek said:


> Question #1: How do I keep the 'black' ink from bleeding?
> Question #2: How do I keep the transfer paper from sticking to the ink?


#1: Are you using off contact? Is the paper secured to the platen?

#2: Not sure, have you called Ryonet?


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## TshirtLover929

I am not sure about the cold peel but I use the Transal Premium Plastisol Heat Transfer Paper from Silkscreeningsupplies.com
I use a 110 or 156 mesh screen and have been using RyOpaque ink.
I do not have a vacuum platen so I just spray a light coat of platen adhesive to hold the paper in place.
I also use a Black Body BBC Little Buddy Conveyor Dryer the 120V.
I take the Adjustable Oven Gates off and run my transfer at a speed setting of 7 for White ink and 8 for Black ink.
Check out these videos.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnZs4M_5Tk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4FfajoSQEY[/media]

I hope this helps.


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## lben

selanac said:


> Loretta, since you cure your Plastisol Transfers with a Flash, how do you prep them for shipping?


I don't ship them, but when I store them I separate them with waxed paper so they won't stick together.


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## stevek

I can't get a good cold peel to save my life. I called Ryonet. They were no help. Every time I cold peel, the transfer paper sicks to the ink and peels off in pieces. I even tried to heat press when the ink was wet. (I didn't gel it.) No good either.
I'm stumped!!!

I finally got my hot peel to press good. I resolved my ghosting problem. The problem I have now is that the image starts to flake off even after 1 wash.
I'm stumped here to!!!

When I gel, I use my laser thermometer and flash to about 275 degrees.


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## trebor4278

temp seems a bit high. I cure mine at 180-195 degrees. Have some white ones printed in 2002 and still good


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## selanac

Thanks Loretta. Maybe that'll work.


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## selanac

Steve, can you do a Hot Peel?


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## wormil

trebor4278 said:


> temp seems a bit high. I cure mine at 180-195 degrees. Have some white ones printed in 2002 and still good


He's in fahrenheit, you must be using celsius unless you meant to write gel instead of cure.


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## wormil

stevek said:


> I finally got my hot peel to press good. I resolved my ghosting problem. The problem I have now is that the image starts to flake off even after 1 wash.
> I'm stumped here to!!!
> 
> When I gel, I use my laser thermometer and flash to about 275 degrees.


edited: I was looking at the wrong spec sheet.

As for the flaking, if it is crumbly or cracks when you stretch it, the ink not fully cured. If it peels off, not crumbly, then it was overcured when gel'd. 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t176601.html


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## trebor4278

check to see if transfer paper is obviously different one side to the other. had that same problem once when only one side of paper was treated to release


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## stevek

I think that I should keep my 'peels' separate here.
COLD PEEL
I use Ryonets Transal Express Cold peel Transfer Paper.
I screen print International Coatings Black 16 plastisol ink through 156 mesh. (1 stroke on the shinny side of paper)
I then sprinkle McLogans Heat Transfer Adhesive onto the tarnsfer. I shake off all excess.
I pre-press shirt for 5 seconds, then press 360 degrees for 10 seconds.
I have not only geled at 275 degrees but also tried to heat press without gelling at all.
Without gelling the transfer paper sticks MUCH worse than with a 275 degree gel.
I let the t-shirt to cool down.
The paper ONLY sticks to the ink and won't even come off in the washing machine.


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## wormil

It's more helpful if you respond directly to the questions and suggestions. Repeating the problem isn't helping us to help you.

Earlier I asked about the paper being secured to the platen and you didn't answer. Is it possible you are using too much glue (if you are using glue) and it is soaking through the paper? Are you getting enough ink on the paper? I've printed transfers but never that paper and never had the problem you describe so I'm shooting in the dark here. 

Have you read this?
http://www.onesteppapers.com/downloads/TransalTransalExpress.doc


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## stevek

I am not sure what securing the paper to the platten has to do with this. But, when I am screen printing the transfer I do use tack spray to hold it in place. I don't know why this would make the cold peel paper stick to the ink. I don't use glue. I use plastisol heat transfer adhesive powder. I don't think that I could over due it. There is just so much that sticks to wet plastisol. Dry adhesive can't soak thru the paper.
I tried both 156 and 300 mesh screens. No difference.


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## wormil

stevek said:


> I do use tack spray to hold it in place. ... I don't use glue.


Tack spray is glue.



wormil said:


> Are you getting enough ink on the paper?
> 
> Have you read this?
> http://www.onesteppapers.com/downloads/TransalTransalExpress.doc


If you don't get enough ink on the paper there won't be enough to transfer to the shirt. The reason I ask is that paper is very smooth compared to fabric and a very thin coating looks good on paper but transfers poorly.

There is a forum member who prints transfers on regular 20# copy paper with great results, you may want to try one just to see how if you get a different result.


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## stevek

The ink transfers just fine. It's just that the paper won't release when trying to cold peel. I will try 20# bond paper today.
Thank you.


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## stevek

The 20# paper stuck worse than the actual transfer paper.
I am convinced that cold peel technology is a failure!


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## selanac

Usually when the ink doesn't transfers it's due to the amount of Pressure. You normally want Medium to Heavy Pressure on your heat press. 

What brand Heat Press do you have?


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## wormil

I'm trying to imagine why the paper is sticking so tightly to the transfer. It's been years since I've printed transfers myself and I don't remember ever having that problem. International coatings sells an additive for printing transfers maybe the ink is the problem. We always used regular Union ink, maybe the IC ink needs the additive to release. I would call them and ask.

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## hswartout

Maybe it’s just the wrong paper? I have received the wrong paper before from suppliers before. If it is a split paper I could maybe see it bonding to the paper if you don’t peel it hot.


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## stevek

I spoke with Ryonet's tech support today.
Instead of using 360 degrees, 10 seconds, and high pressure, they told me to use 350 degrees, 8 seconds, and medium pressure.
This caused part of the ink to stick to the paper and peel off without sticking to the t-shirt, and some ink to stick to the t-shirt with the paper peeling off.
They told me to change my screen from 156 mesh and 1 stroke of emulsion on the garment side to 100 mesh with 2 strokes of emulsion on both sides. They said that I may not have enough ink layed down.
Some of what I am being told doesn't make sense to me. But I am trying them anyway in an effort to learn this technique.
I don't see why this process is so difficult.


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## wormil

stevek said:


> Some of what I am being told doesn't make sense to me. But I am trying them anyway in an effort to learn this technique.
> I don't see why this process is so difficult.


Transfers can be tricky and take some experimentation to get right. It helps though if you read the instructions and follow them. It seems to me that you've been stubborn and dismissive of advice even though you have no idea what you're doing and it's been to your own detriment. It's not my intention to be a jerk but when you ask for advice from people who have done successfully what you're trying to do then you should respond to and heed that advice. It may not make sense now but once you're more experienced it will click. Screenprinting looks deceptively simple which lures people into a false sense of security but there is actually more to it than dragging a squeegee.


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## stevek

I think that I have tried EVERYTHING that everyone has suggested even if it didn't make sense to me.
I have no problems with creating my own laser heat transfers and printing regular plastisol inks. This combination of technologies makes sense but doesn't work for me.
I haven't seen ANY article that explains EXACTLY what is needed to make this process successful. I only get bits and pieces.
I come from an engineering background and if I knew what details are needed I'm sure I could make the appropriate adjustments.

Respectfully;
Steve


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## wormil

I posted the directions which instruct to use 2 coats of emulsion on the back and asked if you'd read them but you didn't respond.

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## stevek

I did try that but it didn't make a difference. Thank you for the advice.
NEW Development-
I just tried to heat press using 32# Gloss Coated paper. I got 100% release cold peel.
The t-shirts are in the washer right now.
It's funny how 'professional' heat transfer paper is a total failure and fairly common printer paper works just fine.
I have also just tried a new powder adhesive for hot peel.
These shirts are also being washed. I will let you know after a few washes how the adhesion is.

Thank you one and all for all of your input. I don't know why a certain process works for some of you and not others.

PS: Union Ink has a pretty good detailed article on this subject. You still need to fill in the blanks though.


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## valleyboy_1

Late thread, new post. Here's a suggestion, if you are flashing to gel your transfer, use a thermography powder applicator to run your transfer under the adhesive powder, then put your flash over the conveyor for the transfer to gel. Kill two birds with a stone.


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## stevek

I gel the transfers in my heat tunnel.


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## djque

I just used that parchum paper if thats howv you say it and it worked excellent. Cheap and comes in a roll.


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## PlatinumPrints

stevek said:


> I did try that but it didn't make a difference. Thank you for the advice.
> NEW Development-
> I just tried to heat press using 32# Gloss Coated paper. I got 100% release cold peel.
> The t-shirts are in the washer right now.
> It's funny how 'professional' heat transfer paper is a total failure and fairly common printer paper works just fine.
> I have also just tried a new powder adhesive for hot peel.
> These shirts are also being washed. I will let you know after a few washes how the adhesion is.
> 
> Thank you one and all for all of your input. I don't know why a certain process works for some of you and not others.
> 
> PS: Union Ink has a pretty good detailed article on this subject. You still need to fill in the blanks though.


Steve 
How did you do it!
What mesh count did you use for the black ink?
What temperature was the flash for gel cure? 185? 195? 210?
What temperature was the heat press? 250? 10 seconds at medium or firm pressure?

Have you tried the alleged parchment paper? (translation of parchum I imagine) i wonder if it emulates the results of the #32 gloss coated paper. 
Please share all the details to mastering this art



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## drdoct

I'm interested in doing my own transfers now and was searching through to find some paper. .20 a sheet is a lot for transfer paper. I realize it's more, but I'd rather just get the .15 deal for 100 than have to print them and do everything. I saw the idea about parchment paper which seems like it would work. Maybe I'll give it a go. Is the power 100% necessary if I cold peel it?


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## sben763

I recommend the powder. Although not required its like insurance. I heat press @350F for 10 sec but only do hot peel. 

I press needs to get the ink over 320F to fully cure. I may try the parchment paper but seriously the paper even at $.20 ea isn't that much but pay about 1/2 that or less cause of bulk purchasing.


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## selanac

DrDoct, that's .20 cents each, but you can make 1 if you want and multiple designs. Express wants .15 cents each at 100 of the same design.


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## stevek

Who sells a good plastisol transfer paper?
Ryonets' doesn't work at all.
I see that McLogan sells sheets for 80cents each. I haven't tried them though.


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## selanac

Check with Performance Screen. Ask for some samples. Dont know if they will, but it doesn't hurt to ask.


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## oldscot

I have had no problem using reynolds non stick parchment paper normally used in baking for cold peel transfers. The plastisol transfer releases easily from the paper and there is no ink left on the paper. Looks like the paper can be used over and over again. It is also semi transparent so it would be easy to line up and transfer another layer over the first transfer. I got 45 square feet for $3.75 at a local discount store.


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## stevek

Let me see if anyone in my area carries this.

Thank you very much for the suggestion.

Steve


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## sben763

stevek said:


> Let me see if anyone in my area carries this.
> 
> Thank you very much for the suggestion.
> 
> Steve


You an pick up at any grocery store in the baking isle. I get mine at Sams Club in big rolls.


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