# FOREVER� Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles



## vgiex (Aug 21, 2006)

*FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

Hi guys! Been reading about this new paper by FOREVER (Subli-Dark) for Light or Dark shirts...Just wondering if anyone did some test on this.

For those who haven't heard the paper you can read from the link below:
FOREVER™ Transfer Papers

Need your input on this...Thanks.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

I have about 100 pcs A4 size of this paper. It's still in the box though and I have'nt tested it yet because of too much workload.


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## vgiex (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*



vctradingcubao said:


> I have about 100 pcs A4 size of this paper. It's still in the box though and I have'nt tested it yet because of too much workload.


Awesome. Let me know if you have a chance to test the paper. I really want to know the quality and washability of it. If FOREVER can pull this magic, it will be a money maker. Thanks.


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## lennykuhn (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

I have tried it and it is just like all the rest. It does not work on Black T-shirts. It still produces that plastic sticker like appearance. I live in Germany and I have been to the company and have talked to the sales representitive. I have seen the samples from their catalog and I must say they look much better in the catalog. The T-shirts hanging on the wall look good at first glance but when you get up close you can still recognize that tell-tale plastic look. I guess that if you want to use any of these dark transfers you have to confine the image to smaller items. The larger the item the more plastic it looks. Another thing that bothers me is that the image tends to wrinkle like someone applied a sticker to the shirt. The wrinkles seem to be in the transfer and not the T-shirt material. I have tried many different transfer papers and none of them work on dark T-shirts. This is exactly the oppisite on white or light color shirts. The transfers are vivid and they are soft to the touch. I wish someone would figure out the way to make the dark transfers work the same way. Sorry if I discourged you but I have been researching dark transfers for some time and I am just as frustrated. I can't wait for the break through to come so I can begin to create professional dark transfers that I can be proud to put my name on.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

Lenny, what can you say about Forever's Dark Pinklines opaque transfers, and their "solvent-dark" transfers? I have tried both of these products and I think both are great products. I would say that they are the best in their category.


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## fat_miao (Jun 18, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

Byron, has the Opague transfer that you refer to came with a new formula or something compared to those before? I tried the ones for color laser in the mid 2006, the hand is extreme. It's like having a rain coat directly sew to the shirt - with glossy effects too.


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## CaulkinsGraphics (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

I came on to the forum with the same question. Where can I get dark transfers that don't look like crap. I did a test shirt and it wrinkled, and felt like a sticker attached to it. This bums me out because I could be making shirts for my fire department in which I am a member plus many more in the state just because I know people that know people. I will keep investigating this issue, but I don't see anything promising in the future. Oh well, keep your eyes and ears sharp.
Todd


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## lennykuhn (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

Byron,

I knew after my last post that it might sound to hard on the Forever products. That was not my intent. AS far as their products go they are probably the best in their class ( a little expensive but as far as today's standards go they are among the best) My point is that the standard is not acceptable when it comes to dark colors. The industry has to get behind the issues and work out a solution to the problem. Why does'nt anyone complain about the quality on lite colors? Simple, because it meets the customers expectations. The dark transfers have not reached this level yet. The plastic feel, the sticker appearance and the wrinkle factor are non-starters in my ( and many others with preceived standards) game. I cannot with good concious sell products I do not believe in. I feel that the only person that I need to please is myself and if I can't do that the the product is not good enough to put my name on it. Judging from the comments of Adam and Todd they too have the same opinion. Like Todd, I could sell hundreds of Black T-shirts if they were produced with the quality of the lite color transfers. Unfortunately, I refuse to sell something that would only cause people and potential customers to question the quality of my work. It will ruin your name and any future business you can expect. Think about standing up and letting the industry know we are not happy. Don't settle for less. If nobody purchased these poor transfers they would have to fix the problem.


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## lennykuhn (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

Todd, 
I don't know where the advances will come from, maybe the DGT is the answer. It seems like they are on the right track. Maybe the people that make the ink need to work harder to solve the problem or the major printer companies like Epson and HP need to get involved and invest in the research to produce a really stand alone printer that can meet our expectations. Until that happens the transfer paper folks have time to get a handle on the problem. applying a vinyl patch over the black T-shirt is not the way. I think we represent the waiting transfer customer base that shows the potential to sell major volumes of transfers if the industry can deliver the quality product we require to produce the products that the public are waiting for. 

Lenny


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

What I'm trying to use and offer to my customers are the best products available to me at the moment. There are variations in quality, prices, etc. but I think the best I can do at the moment is try to educate the customers about the limitations of transfers so that they know what to expect, but ultimately, they, the customers are the ones to decide if they want the product/service or not. I even always include the phrase "there's no substitute to screen printing, and the best transfers cannot compare to the best screen printing" when I talk to my customers. Note that I'm also offering my customers screenprinting services at a minimum order of 100 t-shirts. I outsource these kinds of jobs. Lastly, I've seen screen printed products brought in by customers that are even inferior in quality than my opaque transfers.


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## howszful (Jul 1, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

In my area of the country, black t-shirts are almost all of what my customer base wants. Due to the quality issues of trying to put an image on a dark shirt with Forever papers, as well as a few others out there (Forever did have the best product out there, but it was the best of the worst if you know what I mean) we dropped sublimation almost entirely and have gone with multi layer, digitally cut heat press vinyls and feel much more confident about the quality of our product.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*



howszful said:


> (Forever did have the best product out there, but it was the best of the worst if you know what I mean)


I can imagine what you're referring to. Have you also tried Forever's "solvent-dark"? These are opaque transfers printed & cut on a Roland versacamm. The hand is better than what you can get with Forever-Dark pinklines.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

My 2 cents.

I tried Forever product which were samples I received directly from the factory in Germany. Paid dearly for the shippng cost $55.00 to be exact . I could have bought a hundred pieces with the money. It truned out that Conde Systems in the US is Forever's distributor, duh! But the rep from Forverver did not mention that they have a distributor in US.

Anyway here is what I think. I agree that the forever dark has a place in the market for that product category. It has a plastic feel to it. It is easy to use but must trim around the image. If washed carefully it will hold up wear and tear. However, my wife made the mistake in throwing the shirt in the dryer. Major cracking after that. Forever Universal for light fabric has a major polymer patch issue. It is obvious even from a distance. The patch is very dark and the hand is marginal even after wash. It is hard to peel also. Did not get the solvent so no comments.

If you go in their website you would see that they are pushing Robocraft cutter. I can see why. The dark transfer have to be trimmed as well as the Universal due to the polymer patch.

I am not against or for it. I just quit trying the rest of the samples. I have to use ear plugs when my wife found out how much I paid for the shipping cost (lol).

Luis


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

Thanks for the feedback, Luis. Are you using any opaque laser transfers? Perhaps the Laser1 opaque from Neenah?


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*



vctradingcubao said:


> Thanks for the feedback, Luis. Are you using any opaque laser transfers? Perhaps the Laser1 opaque from Neenah?


Sorry I am not using opaque at the moment. After trying several brands I have not yet found anything that I could use that would be personally acceptable. 

I have tried the following:

Airwaves Inc.'s opaque - it is made of polyester fabric. Have matte finish after press. Two step process.

Undercover, can't recall the vendor - it was made of plastisol or waterbase ink sheet. Peeled hard and cracked after few washes. Wasted a few before I finally got one to work. Two step process.

Forever Dark - single step process. Glossy and plastic feel. Cracks if not washed properly. Wash in gentle cycle and hang dry only.

Transfer Technology opaque - had a sample but decided not to try it. It looks like it is going to jam in my printer.

I was hoping that the up and coming The Magic Touch's WOW 7.0 opaque would be THE product that everybody is looking for. It supposedly works like imageclip, self weeding, for dark fabric. The vendor had good review about it which maybe a bit biased. The advertised release month was June and here it is July already but no sign of it being sold anywhere in US.

Luis


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## wilfredo torres (Jan 7, 2008)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

your solution is to invest in laser sublimation. contact ati transfers in new jersey. they have a web page look it up your be glad you did


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## mickheike (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*



lennykuhn said:


> I have tried it and it is just like all the rest. It does not work on Black T-shirts. It still produces that plastic sticker like appearance. I live in Germany and I have been to the company and have talked to the sales representitive. I have seen the samples from their catalog and I must say they look much better in the catalog. The T-shirts hanging on the wall look good at first glance but when you get up close you can still recognize that tell-tale plastic look. I guess that if you want to use any of these dark transfers you have to confine the image to smaller items. The larger the item the more plastic it looks. Another thing that bothers me is that the image tends to wrinkle like someone applied a sticker to the shirt. The wrinkles seem to be in the transfer and not the T-shirt material. I have tried many different transfer papers and none of them work on dark T-shirts. This is exactly the oppisite on white or light color shirts. The transfers are vivid and they are soft to the touch. I wish someone would figure out the way to make the dark transfers work the same way. Sorry if I discourged you but I have been researching dark transfers for some time and I am just as frustrated. I can't wait for the break through to come so I can begin to create professional dark transfers that I can be proud to put my name on.


Hi we are also in Germany/Holland and for some of our customers the plasticky look would be acceptable (there is no accounting for taste) but washability would be an issue.Did you do wash tests?


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## lennykuhn (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*

The solution I chose was to buy a DTG printer. I chose the T-Jet 3. The learning curve is extremely painful. The process is not a step by step process and there are too many vairables to ensure 100% success. Printing on black shirts is really dependent on the amount of pretreatment and passes of white underbase you apply to the garment. This system was not cheap and I am having second thoughts. The machine itself has issues with the ink supply and the print heads are always clogging up. I am still in the learning process but the customer support is awsome. When everything comes together the quality is almost as good as screen printing. I hate to say it but it looks like there just is no perfect solution at this time for printing on black T-Shirts.


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## vctradingcubao (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: FOREVER™ Subli-Dark - Paper For Light or Dark Colored Textiles*



lennykuhn said:


> The solution I chose was to buy a DTG printer....


I somewhat agree with you. But for me, the Kornit is the solution.. and a very expensive one at that!


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