# Transparency film vs Waterproof



## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I have both. I like the transparency, But I need to print two for a totally dark image. The water proof, I have found the ONLY setting that my printer will print at. While it is nice and dark the print isn't crisp and sharp like the film. 

I can see little hairline runs where the ink expands before it dries on the waterproof. Will this be a problem on my screen? I can only guess yes, since it will probably expose the same way I see it.


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

what printer do you have? 
I can't and also would never use regular transparency films with my printer. there would be ink everywhere!!


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Are you printing on the correct side the rougher side? What brand of waterproof film. Some of the cheaper films can't hold as much ink and start to bleed out of your printed area. You may have to tune your settings down a bit if it's some cheaper film


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Printer is an Epson 1400. For the translucent I am using, *29 lb Glama Transluscent Clear Vellum. Box reads, print on any side.
*

The waterproof film I am unsure of. I just grabbed 30 sheets on Ebay to try out. There was no brand name mentioned.


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## ai file (Sep 9, 2006)

I use transparency for projectors and a HP inkjet printer. The ink isn't fused into the paper so it's dark and black the way i like it. Bad thing about this method is ink wastage but i get clean stencils everytime


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Thanks everyone. On the waterproof I lowered my paper type from ultra gloss to regular gloss. Then selected Best Photo. It worked beautiful! On the Clear film I choose best photo and Ultra Gloss and that also works much better. Glad I can use both!


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

On my 1400 I use the photo instead of best phono and premium gloss. But I have all black and before printing convert all the black to 100CMYK. Then print. Check out fixxon film. I have a few other that are lower cost I can look up they take a a lot of ink but although advertised water proof they will smear if you get them wet.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Fixxon. It clicked. That's what it is! lol. I guess I am on the right track.


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Sben can help us out on this if I'm wrong, but I believe you actually put down LESS ink when you select best photo--it wants to put more detail down--hence smaller ink droplets.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

Waterproof film is needed for Pigment inks, otherwise you do not get the opacity in the print. Some people claim even though pigment inks print extremely light on a non-waterproof film, the UV inhibitors in the film will be enough to still create a good screen. I've never tried it, but if anyone wants to try it, I'd be interested in seeing the results.....


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

ScreenFoo said:


> I'm pretty sure Sben can help us out on this if I'm wrong, but I believe you actually put down LESS ink when you select best photo--it wants to put more detail down--hence smaller ink droplets.


You are correct. All epsons with the varible dot tech will use 3 dots sizes be pending on the print mode you use. In best photo it uses 1.5, 3, and 7 pl dots. In photo it uses 3, 7, 14 pl size dots and in photo plus text(the name of this varies depending on model) it prints 7, 14, 21 pl size dots. Changing the paper will have more affect on the amount of ink used. The ultra premium photo will hold more ink than the premium photo paper. There is some debate on which style of paper holds more glossy or matte. It appears matte setting puts more down as I get small run on matte and none on glossy. 

A very important thing you can do to help the crisp printing is align the print head. Get a cheap 10x loop print out the print alignment page and look at and circle the best alignments then set then. Do this several times so that most them come out as a 5. This will allow accurate bi-directional printing. If you turn off high speed printing this simply turns bi-directional printing but will double you printing time. Align the head even if the printer is new.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

JeridHill said:


> Waterproof film is needed for Pigment inks, otherwise you do not get the opacity in the print. Some people claim even though pigment inks print extremely light on a non-waterproof film, the UV inhibitors in the film will be enough to still create a good screen. I've never tried it, but if anyone wants to try it, I'd be interested in seeing the results.....


This is correct but non water proof film will not hold as much ink. Pigment in will not print as dark as dye but due to the UV resistance of pigment ink even lighter films work as well as dark dye films. With the same ink density. The 1400 stock inks are dye and my comparison above is stock dye to pigment inks. The inks specifically formulated for films will out perform stock dye ink or pigment inks due to the opaque benefits of dye ink with the added UV inhibitors added making them the best of both inks.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

wow. I didn't realize all this for a printer! I am thankful for the info. I have been printing many things and trying to learn this printer inside and out. I have not yet used it on my photos, except for a black and white glossy. It came out very nice.

But I now have stickers all over the printer with different settings for different mediums.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

The 1400 you can save the setting and name it. So the next time you need to do a job just choose that setting. Before I got a 2nd printer just for films I named heat transfers(I changed ink with this setting to pigment). Screen films halftones. Screen films spot colors. And so on.


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## starchild (Jul 22, 2009)

Pigment or Dye base ink is the only real answer as to what type of film to use- nothing more..


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

starchild said:


> Pigment or Dye base ink is the only real answer as to what type of film to use- nothing more..


There is truth to this, BUT, even though dye inks work with nonwaterproof film, as mentioned before, the best films produced are dye inks with waterproof film.

A pigment ink gets great density with waterproof films, but they can easily be scratched. Dye with waterproof films are (virtually) indestructible.


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## ScreenFoo (Aug 9, 2011)

Isn't that the ironic thing though---dye and waterproof films are nearly indestructible... until you get them wet.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

ScreenFoo said:


> Isn't that the ironic thing though---dye and waterproof films are nearly indestructible... until you get them wet.


Not sure why it was ever claimed to be waterproof, but they can get wet, dry and still be used, but they definitely aren't waterproof....


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

I finally have both the prints I am happy with using both types of film. I burned two screens. ( actually 3) The first with the clear film. I can expose 4 minutes and it washes out wonderful. 

Then the waterproof. It isnt as clear as the film so I doubled the time. 8 minutes. ( It wouldnt wash out) I did another at 15 minutes. It started to wash out but it was Gummy. Eventually it broke down and ruined the exposure. 

Is the waterproof paper that dense that I will need even more time to expose it to light? I think for anything over 15 minutes I may just stay with the clear film.


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

You shouldn't have to increase your time at all. Most times, you get a more dense image and filled in much better with a waterproof film anyway. It's not washing out because you are overexposing the emulsion.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

So I should just stay with 4 minutes like I do with the film?


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

you stated in one of your first posts that you had vellum.. Are you confusing vellum with output film or was there just a typo??

if you are using vellum isn't that for laserjets only?


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## JeridHill (Feb 8, 2006)

DigitalInkArts said:


> So I should just stay with 4 minutes like I do with the film?


Yes, if you are using the waterproof film, the blue tint won't effect your time settings.


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## Naptime (May 19, 2011)

not sure what your light source is, but i burn in only 4 minutes. using an epson 1100 and fixxons film. 

my lights are just 500w halogen bulbs.


8 minutes sounds incredibly long, and 15.. phew..

on a good sunny day, i can go outside and burn in about 35 seconds with natural direct sunlight and the fixxons film.


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## DigitalInkArts (Jul 20, 2011)

Im sorry guys, I am confusing you and myself. I purchased many different kinds of films to try. Let me clarify.

From Fixxons, I purchased waterprrof Inkjet paper for my Epson 1400. It has a milky appearance to it and prints nice and dark on one side.

The other is the clear film with the roller marks at the edge of the film. 

The waterproof paper is what I am having the issues with exposing. I tried 8 minutes.( thought it needed to be longer because it wasnt a clear film) The image wouldnt wash out. 15 minutes, It washed out but gummed up and eventually ruined the image as the emulsion broke down while washing out.

I too am using a 500 watt Halogen lamp 12 inches from the screen.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Your time may vary from film to film depending on its clarity. Were one person say takes 4 min the next says 10. The biggest time diffrence will be set up and emulsion. Distance from your image will increase or decrease time by a lot. Dual cure takes much longer to expose than photopolymer emulsion. 

I was just pointing these things out I didn't go back and read the entire thread but those of you with similar set ups to the OP maybe state your distance and emulsion type. Also anyone using a halogen to expose make sure you glass has been removed from the light. I made a page of the same repeating film that started out as a solid down to a 15% halftone. Cut the strips up spread out on a screen every 15 secs uncovering a new section. I use photopolymer and a florescent unit so with a halogen and dual cure I would do in steps of 30-60 sec.


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