# Why does my needle keep breaking on hats?



## thutch15

I am doing a 6,000 stitch design and my needle is breaking on every other hat...is there something wrong that I am not seeing? Thanks Troy


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## Screenanator

What RPM you stitching them at?....what type of needle you using?...


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## thutch15

I turned it down to 600 and needle package says Nm 75/11 Groz-Beckert???


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## Screenanator

I stitch all my hats around 500 -520 rpm MAX....too fast and the hat can move while the needle is still in the fabric causing your breaks....Hats are tricky...but once you get the hang of them they arent so bad.
GOOD LUCK


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## zoom_monster

Troy,
Try an 80 (Thicker needle). What happens, is that because a cap will flex and flag, the needle will deflect...right into the needleplate or the hook. A design that is too dense could also cause this to happen. Do your best to pull the cap tight in the driver so that there is less flapping of the surface. If you have a machine where you can adjust the pressor foot, make sure that you are in proper specs.

Ian


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## thutch15

Ok I will check on that stuff thanks...I slowed down to 450 and it is running so that is a plus. I does seem to always be like it breaks on the center seam.


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## Screenanator

thutch15 said:


> Ok I will check on that stuff thanks...I slowed down to 450 and it is running so that is a plus. I does seem to always be like it breaks on the center seam.


What brand of hat are you running?...I run 70/10 needles on an SWF and the only breakage I get is when running a certain brand of 6 panel hat. Have you had this issue with other brands?


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## thutch15

I am running a variety of Otto Hats. I have ran 3 through now with no problem when running at 450, BUT I have 100 to do and it is a 6,000 stitch design...so it is going very slow.


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## Screenanator

thutch15 said:


> I am running a variety of Otto Hats. I have ran 3 through now with no problem when running at 450, BUT I have 100 to do and it is a 6,000 stitch design...so it is going very slow.


Ouch...thats the brand I was referring to. The nylon webbing they use to make the hat wreaks havoc on needles....I'm sorry but its gonna be a tough haul. I have got to the point where I wont stitch some styles of Otto's.


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## thutch15

Great...that would be my luck. Well I have hit probably 6-10 in a row without a break, so I am sure that slowing down has helped.


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## tfalk

You might also want to try using titanium needles for the hats.. they are more expensive but they last longer and don't seem to break as much on hats. Using a size 75/11 needle instead of a 70/10 would also help.


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## thutch15

OK thanks...I will get some for the future, but I have to get this job and will not get any in time.


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## Flint54

We had a problem with 6 panel caps, some have heavy seams due to their use of internal webbing some don't. One of the things that we do is run a low density satin stitch over the front seam, this has helped in providing a flaat area for the embroidery and the seam then doesn't show in the fill area. 

Our best move was to switch to 80/12 Teflon coated needles for all of our cap production. We switched to them and are able to run most caps/hats at 900 spm. The only time we slow down is with very small lettering/details, we avoid having these in the area of the seams.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS

Knock on wood, I must be lucky. I run full speed on caps ALL THE TIME. Even ran metallics at about 950 spm and not a single needle or thread break.


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## thutch15

LUV DEM TIGERS said:


> Knock on wood, I must be lucky. I run full speed on caps ALL THE TIME. Even ran metallics at about 950 spm and not a single needle or thread break.


What needle do you use?


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## thutch15

Also I was running this cap at 450 with needle #3 (white) and was still having problems....
https://www.ottocap.com/style.php?style_id=58-584

Then last night I switched colors to needle #8 (purple) and to this hat:
https://www.ottocap.com/style.php?style_id=19-573
and I was able to run at 660 and NO NEEDLE BREAKS????

Also I notice on the first hat I have a lot of clean up to do...a lot of frayed thread. However the second hat was perfect...no breaks (thread or needle) and no clean up on the hat.

Does this sounds like an adjustment problem on my machine or was it just the hat?


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## LUV DEM TIGERS

thutch15 said:


> What needle do you use?


I order from Madeira USA - Home and this is what I get. $19.95 per 100 needles. I like the large eye because you can tie your color changes up top and pull the knot through the needle 90% of the time without breaking. I also use Madeira and Robison-Anton threads.








ROUND SHANK LARGE EYE 100/pk

#75/11
Sharp
Industrial round shank
Large Eye-DBxK5
100 per pack


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## LUV DEM TIGERS

thutch15 said:


> Also I was running this cap at 450 with needle #3 (white) and was still having problems....
> https://www.ottocap.com/style.php?style_id=58-584
> 
> Then last night I switched colors to needle #8 (purple) and to this hat:
> https://www.ottocap.com/style.php?style_id=19-573
> and I was able to run at 660 and NO NEEDLE BREAKS????
> 
> Also I notice on the first hat I have a lot of clean up to do...a lot of frayed thread. However the second hat was perfect...no breaks (thread or needle) and no clean up on the hat.
> 
> Does this sounds like an adjustment problem on my machine or was it just the hat?



Make sure your needle is in correctly. With a round shank needle, it is easy to get them in backwards or slightly twisted and instead of the rotary hook going through the scarf and picking up the thread, it can be slightly hitting the needle or coming close to it and shearing the thread. When you learn to get your needles in correctly, and learn to keep the proper tension on your bobbin, that will solve 90% of your problems. When I change a needle, I can tell if it isn't in "perfectly". I can make a slight adjustment and be good to go.


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## thutch15

LUV DEM TIGERS said:


> Make sure your needle is in correctly. With a round shank needle, it is easy to get them in backwards or slightly twisted and instead of the rotary hook going through the scarf and picking up the thread, it can be slightly hitting the needle or coming close to it and shearing the thread. When you learn to get your needles in correctly, and learn to keep the proper tension on your bobbin, that will solve 90% of your problems. When I change a needle, I can tell if it isn't in "perfectly". I can make a slight adjustment and be good to go.


Thanks again for the help!

My needles have a little dip in the back of them...does that sound correct. I put that towards the back of the machine and put another needle in the front of the eye to line it up and push it up.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS

thutch15 said:


> Thanks again for the help!
> 
> My needles have a little dip in the back of them...does that sound correct. I put that towards the back of the machine and put another needle in the front of the eye to line it up and push it up.



Yes, that dip is called the scarf and goes to the back of the machine. This is where the rotary hook passes to catch the thread. I have found that if you are rotated just ever so slightly to the right is okay (and actually seems better), but not rotated to the left. Sometimes I shine a light behind the needles when they are in and you can see when you are straight by looking side to side and see when you can see the most light coming through the eye. If you need to adjust, I have found a pair of curved needle nose pliers work great. Some people use hemostats (locking forceps like doctors use in surgery). Grab hold of the needle, loosen the screw, slightly turn your needle and then tighten the screw.


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## SunEmbroidery

1. Slow machine at start of design (increase speed after start)
2. Use 80 needle
3. Hoop tight, use binder clips to secure
4. Take up unwanted space (to reduce flagging) with additional backing
5. Start design slightly off center if breaking needle at initial center start
6. Raise design away from brim (space permitting)

If using a single head, hold down cap with tweezers so it touches frame for initial stitching. This will remove flagging so needle doesn't break.


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## Mark Rhodus

Your best bet is to use either teflon or titanium needles, like a previous poster recommended. I would recommend that you use Organ's. You can find these at just about any online embroidery supplies store.


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## skits

1. Thread breaks more at sim cos its thicker there
2. We run caps at 550rpm. Try it even though on this forum Ive been told people run it at 750.
3. We use needle size 90 on caps at times
4. Quality of your cap will also matter.
5. Digitising could also be a cause for threadbreaks at times


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## GraffixGuy

In my experience running hats and helping others run hats on embroidery machines, minimizing the flagging or minimizing the gap between the sewing plate and the surface of the hat itself makes the biggest difference - if those are taken care of, the other common problems - such as thick seams, heavy-handed digitizing - often don't present problems. 

Look into these options for your particular brand of embroidery machine:
1. Some machines come with a special optional raised needle plate that arches upwards to meet the under surface of the hat, minimizing this gap. It may not be worth it to swap sewing plates for short cap runs, but if a machine will be running caps for an extended period, this 1-2 minute swap may be worth the effort.
2. If this can be done on your machine, adjust the angle of the cap driver (a very fine adjustment) so that it presents the cap surface as low to the needle plate as possible. 
3. Digitizing: Instead of launching into the design right away, digitize a simple cross running stitch underlay, followed by a more complete outline underlay under the entire design before it sews, anchoring that portion of the cap to the backing. This minimizes flexing and shifting that can contribute to flagging - it also minimizes distortion and registration problems especially on Flex-fit type caps. (Don't forget to digitize center-out, too!)

- Rene
(GraffixGuy)


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