# Can you protect a good idea?



## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Slicing had been done forever, and baking bread as well. Then a innovative guy put the two together (this is known as a crossover product) and sliced bread became the greatest thing. Didn't catch on for another fifty years but still.

I see two readily available products that if combined might be the next step in the evolution of an entire product line, and no one is doing it yet. It just is so doable and obvious and awesome and right in every way. 

The question is, is this something that can be nailed down legally?

The only thing worse in business than reinventing the wheel is reinventing a square wheel, that is to say, plagiarism properly applied is the stuff of commerce.

Secondly, what part of the government is trademark protected? Duck stamps yes, currency no. Is this an arbitrary thing? Can I sell landmark gear to the tourist trade? I'm pretty certain I can't sell a states ad campaign "The Natural State" on the corner. Museums, zoo's, probably not, parks, roads, neighborhoods? Any feed back would be appreciated.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

To answer your question literally, you cannot protect an "idea." You need to be using it as a trademark or patent to be able to legally protect it.

You can take an existing patent and re-purpose it into a new product. But I'm not sure the exact legalities of what you can or cannot protect of your new product. Especially if your new product is the result of combining two existing patents. I'm afraid you may need to consult a good patent attorney for help on this one.

As for landmarks, you would need to research each one. Some are publicly owned; some are privately owned. And the intellectual property can be licensed out to a variety of vendors. Major landmarks, state nicknames, museums, zoos and parks are likely not public domain. But most roads and neighborhoods probably are.


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## atomicaxe (Sep 23, 2013)

A lot of people do what you just described ... it's what causes so many patent lawsuits between companies ... they have an idea, they patent it. No proof of concept is needed.


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## maribethcardinal (Dec 16, 2014)

You have to go through legal ways only. If you are willing to do some thing like this, you will get plenty of ideas here.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Ok Kimmura, you being the Babatunde (Big Kahunah) of all matters legal, we are talking about applying for a design patent. One of the criteria is "would someone in the field of endeavor see the combination as obvious". 

Well my employer just went to a trade show in Vegas on the industry (a pretty good sized field of endeavor), and no one there found the idea obvious (hasn't been promoted yet), but it's obvious as hell to me.

I'm not looking for a legal opinion, just a little feedback besides "see a patent lawyer", which I'll most surely do. 

p.s. I miss sparing with you


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## Screen Medics (Feb 23, 2015)

If you have a highly valuable design and do not have deep pockets to defend your copyright there isn't great news for you. Ideals and real world are often light years apart in reality.

Copyrights like patents are often a double edged sword. To protect a design you must disclose full and complete information about the design in your application. That becomes public record and can be viewed online by anyone. 

If you are granted a copyright it offers you some protection. 

However, as I have been told, you must defend your copyright if you believe someone is making unauthorized use of your design. That means you will likely incur significant legal fees, the court process is not speedy and you may or may not prevail should your case go to court. In the event you lose you may or may not be required by the court to pay the defendants legal fees as well as your own. States do not all treat this the same.

In the meantime, unless you are granted an injunction to stop the alleged infringement, the alleged offending entity may be able to continue to violate your copyright until either the matter is decided in court or settled out of court. It sometimes takes a lengthy amount of time just to get to court.

If you do not have deep pockets or the offending entity does have deep pockets they could potentially bankrupt you with legal fees forcing you to drop the case.

Keep in mind this is general information and you should do your own due diligence online to confirm all of these facts.

Screen Medics


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

I think it's going to be ubiquitous when it occurs to someone on the payroll of company with deep pockets how obvious, easy, and doable the idea is. I guess if I was awarded a patent I could put it out for high bid and let the big boys slug it out in court. No real idea if a patent would even be awarded.

Nothing succeeds like success.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

When I worked as an engineer for a big company, the bar for filing (on their dime) was pretty high.

But I watch Shark Tank, and I see many people do get patents for very obvious applications.

Your first stop needs to be searching existing patents, and checking for prior art. If there is prior art, you are out of luck.

You do NOT need to be using the idea to patent it.

You can do some research to see if your idea already exists on the market, you can do a little research to see if it has already be covered by someone else's patent.

If those searches don't dissuade you, at some point you will have to choose to act or not.

If you choose to file a patent, do hire a competent patent attorney. I have seen a number of cases where in the quest to save money up front, either useless patent was granted, or the patent was denied.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> You can do some research to see if your idea already exists on the market]


The boss hits the trade show in Las Vegas yearly to see whats new in the industry and so far it hasn't appeared. 

I've done some cursory searches but my understanding is that this should be done by a professional. 

Out of curiosity, how can you trust a lawyer with an idea? I have a 60 ct. gemstone appraised 3 times, all with professionals, all wildly different values.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

The search should be done by a professional to be complete, but you can save yourself some money if you do the initial search and find out the idea is already in the public domain.

Since we don't know your idea, we don't know if not seeing it in Vegas this year means anything.

You can trust a patent lawyer with the idea because they are your attorney. How ever, in terms of trusting them to do a good job, like everything else you have to get a good one. Budget $20k for the patent process and you should get pretty close to the final amount.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

> we don't know if not seeing it in Vegas this year means anything


It means the biggest suppliers of product in our industry aren't pushing the product yet. No tool up, no media needed to explain the product.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

> It means the biggest suppliers of product in our industry aren't pushing the product yet.


Are you sure that means it has not been invented? There are many more ideas than there are products shown at trade shows.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

No, not at all. It's just counter intuitive to think that a new product won't be put out for distribution at the beginning of the season, in front of the biggest distributors.


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## HappyHaole (Jan 12, 2015)

Not sure of your work situation, you keep referring to the "Boss" but if you have an idea, that is "work" related it often becomes property of the "Company" even if it was your idea.
This may not be the precedent in this industry but I work in aerospace and that is always the case.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

> if you have an idea, that is "work" related it often becomes property of the "Company" even if it was your idea


As part of my engineering employment, I signed an agreement that any invention that I came up with, work related or not, was their property. Inventions they had no use for they often would sign back over to the employee.

If you didn't sign such a thing, then factors like did you invent it with company resources or while on the company clock come into play.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

I'm more that sure he would feel that way, and although I have developed a process on their time that by all rights is theirs, we have never spoken of this, spent any time in developing this or otherwise worked to develop ideas in this direction.

But your point is well taken though, one more consideration.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Contracts are a little out of my pay grade, they try for "no competition" but it's a little late for that.

We have never worked on, discussed, or otherwise worked in this direction. I have developed a product/process unrelated to this, and I'm glad you mentioned that consideration. 

That process is by all rights the companies, and I had forgotten that.


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## Posylane (Mar 3, 2011)

If I understand your posts right, it sounds like you are the owner of this idea. While getting through the patent process can cost $20k, it would only be a few thousand to have a patent attorney look through the prior art and give his opinion on the defendability of this idea.

If you have done has much research into prior art as you can, the patent attorney is the next step.


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