# ImageClip looks faded on tshirt



## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Hey guys-
I just did my first tshirt using ImageClip that actually looks half way decent, but I've got a couple of questions....
1. After I've printed the red sheet and have done the first press with the green sheet, what should my image look like? Should it be a very even layer on top of the toner? Will it be a little splotchy? I hope you are getting a really good laugh at my incredibly technical terms.
2. When I've pressed the treated red sheet to the tshirt, everything looks slightly faded or muted and anything black looks even more faded. Is this a pressure thing? Ink/printer setting issue? Temperature?
I'm using a Mighty Press, HP 3600 Laser Printer (cardstock setting) and ImageClip Transfer Paper.
Thanks for your help!


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## mcohen123 (Aug 10, 2006)

I haven't had much experience with ImageClip transfer paper. It sounds remarkable. Just in case you're looking for the proper instructions for this type of paper I found this .pdf file online. http://www.neenah.com/technical/pdf/Printing_Instructions/PhotoTransImageClip9770P0807.pdf
In general in 'performance' laser printers are much better than inkjets. But in the transfer world I believe that inkjets are much better for the job. I could be wrong but that's the feeling I have had for a long time. From surfing the forum in the past this is also what i have gathered. JUst to try i think you should buy a cheap epson 88 at your local office supply store and invest in some sofstretch transfers and see for yourself. While readinf this .pdf and other info the author was talking about oils and such. This may be what you are experiencing with the splotching. Maybe let the transfer air dry more. Or maybe you have the printer on the wrong setting. Maybe there is too much toner being put on the paper. Anyways read this .pdf and see what happens.
-Marc


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

VPZ said:


> Hey guys-
> I just did my first tshirt using ImageClip that actually looks half way decent, but I've got a couple of questions....
> 1. After I've printed the red sheet and have done the first press with the green sheet, what should my image look like? Should it be a very even layer on top of the toner? Will it be a little splotchy? I hope you are getting a really good laugh at my incredibly technical terms.
> 2. When I've pressed the treated red sheet to the tshirt, everything looks slightly faded or muted and anything black looks even more faded. Is this a pressure thing? Ink/printer setting issue? Temperature?
> ...


It sounds like you do not have good polymer adhered to the toner on the red paper.

The printed area on the red sheet should look hazy with matte finish. It is a good indication that the polymer is bonded on the toner. When you see parts of the printed area is glossy that means there is not enough or no polymer.

Your pressure might might be hard enough when pressing the two papers or the temp is not high enough. Do not let the papers cool down when peeling the papers apart.

Try these two process to prevent the papers from cooling down:

Oki C8800n + Hotronix Draw + ImageClip = SWEET!!! - T-Shirt Forums 

Oki C8800n + Hotronix Draw + ImageClip = SWEET!!! - Page 2 - T-Shirt Forums

Another thing is the pressure needs to be very high when pressing the red paper on the shirt and peel hot immediately.

Can you post a picture?


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Here are some pics.....obviously, I forgot to do the whole mirror image thing! I know...hilarious, but I'm sure that is just the first of many knowing me!
OK, give me your best advice.....


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

VPZ said:


> Here are some pics.....obviously, I forgot to do the whole mirror image thing! I know...hilarious, but I'm sure that is just the first of many knowing me!
> OK, give me your best advice.....
> View attachment 4538
> 
> ...


first of all what color is that shirt. secondly it look like they're ok if that shirt is grey but if not. just tweak ur colors meaning use more saturation and a little brightness in ur printer settings.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

dodank said:


> first of all what color is that shirt. secondly it look like they're ok if that shirt is grey but if not. just tweak ur colors meaning use more saturation and a little brightness in ur printer settings.


and by the way that's a cute image.


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

thank you for the quick reply and the compliment...the shirt is white!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I am guessing. It looks like there is not enough polymer on the toner or the transfer paper was not peeled hot immediately. I would guess that most of the toner stayed with the transfer paper.

Bumping up the saturation may do the job but make sure there is good polymer coat on the toner.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> I am guessing. It looks like there is not enough polymer on the toner or the transfer paper was not peeled hot immediately. I would guess that most of the toner stayed with the transfer paper.
> 
> Bumping up the saturation may do the job but make sure there is good polymer coat on the toner.


i saw that too, but sometimes even peeling hot u can have that issue. that's why i suggested the printer setting tweaking, i have had to do it sometimes my self.
thanks infortun


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Now, this is really going to sound stupid, but how do I add more saturation to black? I created this graphic in CorelDraw X3 and the black is C100M100Y100K100. I set my HP 3600 laser printer to print on cardstock which seems to be the heaviest paper option to choose from.
I realize the pictures I attached aren't very good to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.
Any help is always appreciated!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

VPZ said:


> Now, this is really going to sound stupid, but how do I add more saturation to black? I created this graphic in *CorelDraw*​ X3 and the black is C100M100Y100K100. I set my HP 3600 laser printer to print on *cardstock*​ which seems to be the heaviest paper option to choose from.
> I realize the pictures I attached aren't very good to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.
> Any help is always appreciated!


Look into the printer driver for changing the saturation. With OKI printer the saturation can be changed as a whole not individual color.

Dodank can answer most of that for you.​


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

VPZ said:


> Now, this is really going to sound stupid, but how do I add more saturation to black? I created this graphic in CorelDraw X3 and the black is C100M100Y100K100. I set my HP 3600 laser printer to print on cardstock which seems to be the heaviest paper option to choose from.
> I realize the pictures I attached aren't very good to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.
> Any help is always appreciated!


 ur black is okay,is that ur issue. make sure ur cmyk in ur design, i printed some black the other day an it too didn't look black black so i changed the settings to cmyk. what tray r u printing from the manual tray the one that folds out on front or the drawer tray; there is also a extra heavy paper setting but u really don't to use it. i will check mine tomorrow to see what i have it set on. there r no sat settings with the hp 3600 that i know of so for my colors if i choose red i just choose a deeper red. hope this helps


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

VPZ said:


> Now, this is really going to sound stupid, but how do I add more saturation to black? I created this graphic in CorelDraw X3 and the black is C100M100Y100K100. I set my HP 3600 laser printer to print on cardstock which seems to be the heaviest paper option to choose from.
> I realize the pictures I attached aren't very good to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.
> Any help is always appreciated!


ur questions r not dumb, the ones u don't ask is. so ask away sweetie.
u can pm me ur phone no. or i can call u if that will help u quicker, i have free longdistance.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

BTW with the Oki printer the driver can be set so that the printer will print pure black toner for black colors and not use any color combination to produce black color.

I just looked into X3 value for black. It should be C0 M0 Y0 K100. That is why your black do not look true black because you are mixing CMY values with the K parameter which is the acronym for black.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> BTW with the Oki printer the driver can be set so that the printer will print pure black toner for black colors and not use any color combination to produce black color.


yeah, u can do that with the hp but i forgot what i did to correct it; also make sure u prepress to remove moisture for garment. if i wasn't dressed for bed i would go out there tonight to check.


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

You guys rock and you've already given me lots of things to try. Dodank, go to bed and get some rest! I'm sure I will have more questions for you both tomorrow after the next couple of tries.
Thanks again for helping me!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Just in case you missed it. I added text to my last post on page 1. it goes like this:

"I just looked into X3 value for black. It should be C0 M0 Y0 K100. That is why your black do not look true black because you are mixing CMY values with the K parameter which is the acronym for black."


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

OOhhhh yes, Luis! I didn't see that! I will try that first thing in the morning! Thank you sooooo much for the info! I'll post hopefully with pics once I've given it a try.
Thank you again!


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

thanks luis, 
i didn't even think about that, although i don't know corel that well. but in other programs i have used i had to change it and it worked. thanks for the info that's good to know.
thanks for correcting my input on that. i look at my color chart and ur totally correct.


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

OK, sorry for the delay in getting this response posted. So I tried the C0M0Y0K100 for black in Corel Draw and it didn't make much of a difference. Back to square one, I think. One good thing is that I used more pressure for pressing to the shirt and it turned it much better.
Here are the pics of the latest try...and yes, I remembered the whole mirror image thing! Still faded and just not sure what to do. Any suggestions?
Oh, yeah...the one with the arrow is to show the line (if you can see it) from the polymer from the blank part of the sheet to the tshirt itself. I guess I can trim the images before pressing to avoid that, but I thought this might help with figuring out what I'm doing wrong!
Thanks!


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

VPZ said:


> OK, sorry for the delay in getting this response posted. So I tried the C0M0Y0K100 for black in Corel Draw and it didn't make much of a difference. Back to square one, I think. One good thing is that I used more pressure for pressing to the shirt and it turned it much better.
> Here are the pics of the latest try...and yes, I remembered the whole mirror image thing! Still faded and just not sure what to do. Any suggestions?
> Oh, yeah...the one with the arrow is to show the line (if you can see it) from the polymer from the blank part of the sheet to the tshirt itself. I guess I can trim the images before pressing to avoid that, but I thought this might help with figuring out what I'm doing wrong!
> Thanks!
> ...


ok where did u get ur paper from
what do u have ur first press set on
then what is ur second press set on
i have a mighty press too
my hp settings r just default.


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Hey there! 
1. I purchased the paper from Coastal Business.
2. First press...220 for 10 seconds.
3. Second press...375 for 15 seconds.
4. HP 3600 settings are the default and heavy paper setting.
The press settings are a real pain to figure out for nothing else than the paper came with one set of instructions, the Neenah site has another set of instructions and I've read several different things on the forums. I understand this paper is very sensitive, but the whole process of testing (lowering & raising temperatures, wasting paper, etc.) is driving me a little crazy!
I did try a different graphic created in the same program (Corel Draw) as this one with a lime green color and it was fine, but the black lettering was still gray.
I think I'm close to getting this, but just can't find that balance!
Help me if you can!


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

VPZ said:


> Hey there!
> 1. I purchased the paper from Coastal Business.
> 2. First press...220 for 10 seconds.
> 3. Second press...375 for 15 seconds.
> ...


OK, lets try this: first tighten ur press till u cannot and then start loosening the turn about 8 or 9 half turns back, this is for ur first press pressure. i set mine at 10-12 sec on 225. on my second press i do heavy which i don't think the second is ur problem maybe the first press press
my printer is not set on heavy paper it is on auto letter so try that. my second press setting for heat is right at 390 for 12 seconds heavy pressure. as far as the black i don't know i just did a batch with black and it was fine. it might be ur graphic. but ur pic looks okay to me other than ur polymer issue.


ps* when u get a good pressure setting on ur first press mark ur spot on ur pressure screw, valve or u know what i mean i did mine with nail polish. then ur always know where to turn too. u don't have to worry about second press that;s easy because it don't matter heavy is heavy.lol*


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Thank you , thank you. I will try that here in a little bit and let you know!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

I have been pressing at 400F for the second pressing but when I tried pressing at 375F the image did not transfer as good as at 400F.

Try checking the temp of your press. It might off from the target setting.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

VPZ said:


> Oh, yeah...the one with the arrow is to show the line (if you can see it) from the polymer from the blank part of the sheet to the tshirt itself. I guess I can trim the images before pressing to avoid that, but I thought this might help with figuring out what I'm doing wrong!
> Thanks!


You can minimize that by using silicon baking cookie sheet during the first pressing. That much polymer left on the red sheet will really become obvious when the garment is pastel color. It defeats the purpose of self weeding aspect of Imageclip if you are going to trim.


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

I have been testing the Image Clip. Did some left chest logo's tonight that looked great. Very impressed with the feel and color. 

I then used the same settings for another print (see the attached results):
OKI C3400n
Heavy Paper setting (toner coverage did not look good)
White Tee 100% cotton
1200 x 600 dpi
Pressed 210 @ 10 sec / 400 @ 12 sec
Straight paper path after warmimg up with 3 sheets

If I can get this paper to work consistently it will replace injet except for photo type work. I love the potential. But this is the second time large text or solids have come out spotty/distressed looking.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

Colorfast said:


> I have been testing the Image Clip. Did some left chest logo's tonight that looked great. Very impressed with the feel and color.
> 
> I then used the same settings for another print (see the attached results):
> OKI C3400n
> ...


in my own opinion, ic works best with 50 50 t shirts. i have used cotton they don't perform as well as 5050


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Hey guys-
Still can't get it to press really black...still looks faded. I did a design that has no black at all and it was a completely different story. Medium pink and green...the colors came out great, but still didn't get the polymer on the toner well enough so some of the design didn't press. Luis, you had posted about the silicone baking sheet...where do I put it? on top of the transfer sheets? on the bottom? I saw another post you wrote that showed it on top of the red sheet. Is that right? How will it help that polymer problem?
Questions! Questions! I'm sure there will be more to come!
Thanks!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

VPZ said:


> Hey guys-
> Still can't get it to press really black...still looks faded. I did a design that has no black at all and it was a completely different story. Medium pink and green...the colors came out great, but still didn't get the polymer on the toner well enough so some of the design didn't press. Luis, you had posted about the silicone baking sheet...where do I put it? on top of the transfer sheets? on the bottom? I saw another post you wrote that showed it on top of the red sheet. Is that right? How will it help that polymer problem?
> Questions! Questions! I'm sure there will be more to come!
> Thanks!


I use the modified version. 
1) The press pressure has to be set with the silicon baking sheet on the lower platten. 

2) After the pressure is set I lay the two papers on top of the baking sheet.

3) Press them for 10 seconds.
4) Open the press and immediately move the the two sheets under the silicon baking sheet.
5) Lift the corner of the baking sheet so that the corner of the papers are exposed.
6) Pick the corner of the upper paper.
7) Peel it immediately while keeping the baking sheet on top of the transfer paper and maintainting the lower paper in contact with the lower platten.
8) Keep the the paper being peeled and the baking sheet close to the lower platten while peeling them.

You should have a good polymer coating on the toner and minimal polymer speckle on the unprinted area. A good indication of good polymer adhesion is the toner will have a matte hazy appearance and no glossy tiny spots. When you see tiny glossy spots or blotchy area the polymer did not adhere to those area.

The silicon baking sheet helps maintain the heat on the two papers while they are being peeled. When the two papers cool down too soon before they are peeled apart will cause some polymer sticking in the unprinted area (speckle or excessive polymer blots) and also leaves uneven coating on the toner area.

Have you tried pressing at 400F?

Did you find a printer setting that will force the printer to use black toner for black color and not use the composite colors of CMY to produce black?

The Oki printer have that option which produces true black.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

dodank said:


> in my own opinion, ic works best with 50 50 t shirts. i have used cotton they don't perform as well as 5050


I agree that 50/50 produces better transferred image because the fibers do not breakdown as bad as 100% cotton. The 50/50 shirt has denser knit and does not have cracking issue when it is stretched. At least the brand that I use, Fruit of The Loom. However, sometimes my customers require that the image be put on 100% cotton like the order I did last week for 38 pcs.

Attached is the picture. Notice the blacks are are true black and not faded. I pressed on both sides. The crest picture is not shown.


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## Colorfast (Sep 2, 2006)

lnfortun said:


> I agree that 50/50 produces better transferred image because the fibers do not breakdown as bad as 100% cotton. The 50/50 shirt has denser knit and does not have cracking issue when it is stretched. At least the brand that I use, Fruit of The Loom. However, sometimes my customers require that the image be put on 100% cotton like the order I did last week for 38 pcs.
> 
> Attached is the picture. Notice the blacks are are true black and not faded. I pressed on both sides. The crest picture is not shown.


I'll try the 50/50 next time. I believe my issue stems from the toner not printing well on the IC sheet. What quality/dpi do print to the image sheet?

Nice looking shirt- good print quality.


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## VPZ (Oct 12, 2007)

Thank you so much for the steps to follow! Off to buy silicone baking sheets tomorrow to give this a go! I will post as soon as I try it out. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to set it to print true black. I would be surprised if it didn't have the option so I'm going to keep looking for how to do it.
Thanks again!


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

VPZ said:


> Thank you so much for the steps to follow! Off to buy silicone baking sheets tomorrow to give this a go! I will post as soon as I try it out. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to set it to print true black. I would be surprised if it didn't have the option so I'm going to keep looking for how to do it.
> Thanks again!


i can't explain what's going on with vpz printing. i just did a batch of 70 shirts and bags with black everywhere in the graphic and i don't have the problem with black. i printed these on hp 3600 default settings letter, normal paper nothing was enchanced. sorry i couldn't be of more help.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

Colorfast said:


> I'll try the 50/50 next time. I believe my issue stems from the toner not printing well on the IC sheet. What quality/dpi do print to the image sheet?
> 
> Nice looking shirt- good print quality.


With my Okidata printer I use fine and photo enhance seetings. In addition I also set the option to use 100% black toner for black color.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> With my Okidata printer I use fine and photo enhance seetings. In addition I also set the option to use 100% black toner for black color.


luis, what 5050 tees u use, the gildan ultra blend is not up to par with me either, i have used jerzees with excellent success.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

dodank said:


> luis, what 5050 tees u use, the gildan ultra blend is not up to par with me either, i have used jerzees with excellent success.


I use Fruit Of The Loom Best T and some Jerzees. I like both brands. I have shirts that are over 6 years old that still look good. Some sign of fading but no pilling. Unlike 100% cotton the fibers will breakdown and lift up after few washes, which makes the print look faded.

I use Hanes Beefy T for 100% cotton.


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## dodank (May 4, 2007)

lnfortun said:


> I use Fruit Of The Loom Best T and some Jerzees. I like both brands. I have shirts that are over 6 years old that still look good. Some sign of fading but no pilling. Unlike 100% cotton the fibers will breakdown and lift up after few washes, which makes the print look faded.
> 
> I use Hanes Beefy T for 100% cotton.


thanks, i was just wondering. the jerzees hold up amazingly well. gildan ultra blend does like the cotton with the fiber lift and faded look.just so u know. they print okay but when u wash omg. i like the tees but not with imageclip. i know mike at the paperranch uses anvil which i have not tried yet, but the print he did was awesome on the tee he sent me when they first reformulated the imageclip. blew my mind.
thanks luis.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

VPZ said:


> Thank you so much for the steps to follow! Off to buy silicone baking sheets tomorrow to give this a go! I will post as soon as I try it out. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to set it to print true black. I would be surprised if it didn't have the option so I'm going to keep looking for how to do it.
> Thanks again!


The silicon baking cookie sheet I show in my post was expensive. My wife paid $22.00. It was supposedly on sale at the time of purchase. I found a cheaper brand at a local department store Super Target. I paid $7.00 for it. I have been using it for the first pressing. My wife would not let me use hers anymore . Just make sure there are no raised or embossed stamping on either surface. Surface irregularity will make the transfer polymer coating uneven. One smooth surface is recommend.


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## jki540 (May 29, 2007)

hey luis...question for you since you're our resident imageclip expert (!).

after you press the graphic to your shirt, do you ever get pilling on the cotton?

i've noticed that my imageclip paper sticks pretty hard to the tshirts, so when i peel them slowly from the fabric, it pulls a lot of cotton with it. this causes some pilling around the image.

have you ever noticed that? and did you do anything to fix it? i'm wondering if my pressure is too high? but if i lower it too much, the image won't transfer correctly.

any insights on this problem would be greatly appreciated.


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

jki540 said:


> hey luis...question for you since you're our resident imageclip expert (!).
> 
> after you press the graphic to your shirt, do you ever get pilling on the cotton?
> 
> ...


When you say around the image did you mean in the *open space/unprinted area*? That is caused by excessive polymer *speckles/blots *in those areas. I use a silicon baking sheet to minimize the polymer *speckes/blots. *One thing you can try is increase the temp in increments of 5F degrees until the paper releases easier and not stick to the garment. The higher the pressure the better the transfer will be. Do not let the transfer paper cool down or it will tend to stick and lift the fibers. You must peel hot immediately as soon as the press is opened. I peel diagonally from the top corner rather quickly so that the transfer will not cool down. Keep the transfer close to the lower platten and try not to lift it as you peel.

Post stretching and post pressing the shirt covered with teflon or parchment paper for 4 to 5 seconds will push the fibers back. Doing so will yield smoother and softer hand also. Watch out for any ghost image on the teflon sheet before reusing it. Otherwise it will transfer to the next shirt you are pressing. A member suggested to use "Mr. Clean Eraser" sponge to wipe the teflon sheet. She claims the sponge really well.


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## jki540 (May 29, 2007)

Hi Luis,
Yes. That is exactly the area of the shirt I'm referring to. Thanks for your tips. 

It's very helpful, because I was assuming it was the opposite. I thought (foolishly) that i was pressing too hard and the unprinted polymers were 'stuck' on the cotton.

i also have a teflon sheet, so i'll try using that as well. so the three things i'm going to try are: 1) more heat; 2) more pressure; 3) teflon sheet.

I think if i add those three elements, i should be in good shape.

Thanks again...wish me luck!


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## Lnfortun (Feb 18, 2006)

jki540 said:


> Hi Luis,
> Yes. That is exactly the area of the shirt I'm referring to. Thanks for your tips.
> 
> It's very helpful, because I was assuming it was the opposite. I thought (foolishly) that i was pressing too hard and the unprinted polymers were 'stuck' on the cotton.
> ...


You are welcome.

You did not mention silicon baking cookie sheet. That will minimize the polymer speckles. You would be surprised the difference it makes.

Lots of luck.


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## cmac34 (Dec 27, 2008)

I just did my first imageclip transfer now. Hand is heavier than normal transfer I'd say. The weeding is excellent but I have had an issue with either the paper sticking to the image or the press not being sufficient? HP mono laser printer with a generic German built heat press. I followed Neenah's instructions to the letter. See pictures.

[media]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/kg666666/Picture-003.gif[/media]

[media]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/kg666666/Picture-001.gif[/media]


Any ideas?


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## cmac34 (Dec 27, 2008)

Tried 8 more chest transfers today, same problem. Either the transfer leaves some on the green paper or when transferred to the shirt it stays on the red paper when peeling. Is this a heat or pressure problem? Any help much appreciated.


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## cmac34 (Dec 27, 2008)

Anyone? Going to give up on imageclip otherwise.


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## cmac34 (Dec 27, 2008)

I give up, thanks for nothing.


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