# Pretreatment HELP!!!



## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

I am still learning and am pretty new the DTG world. I have the white shirts down. Thought that I was making head way on darks. I have had some success. But then I think I am doing the same steps and I get peeling and cracking. But know I feel like I am back at the beginning. I get my supplies from Colman & Company. I have a Kiosk. How do I know if I have too much pretreatment or too little, do I need to dilute the pretreatment, how much pressure when I press? Should the shirt be totally dry after the 10 - 15 sec of pressing? Do I need to let the pretreat soaking before I roll/brush it or do I roll/brush it right away. I am very frustrated and am tired of wasting money trying to get it right. Are the steps the same for t-shirts and sweatshirts?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I am ready to throw in the towel.


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## vinyl signs (Dec 26, 2007)

Too much pretreat the ink peals off when washed but the white really looks good.

Too little pretreat the white looks washed out/not bright!


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

Ok so too much pretreat will make it peel, and too little will make it fade? Do Ineed to dilute the pretreat? 

I am pressing for 2:40 @ 345 with light pressure. Does that sound right?


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I am new to the pretreatment also but on my bottle it says 50% distilled water 50% pretreatment.
You can dry them or let them dry overnight.
There is a thread here about it and I will try to locate it and be right back


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t52278.html
This may help a little.

Sunny tells how she does it and it seems to work well.
Hope this helps


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

I will try those step and let you know my results. Just to be sure this is the pretreat for the white ink. Right?


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

jsmith1189 said:


> I will try those step and let you know my results. Just to be sure this is the pretreat for the white ink. Right?


 
That is correct. let me know how it works out.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

jsmith1189 said:


> Ok so too much pretreat will make it peel, and too little will make it fade? Do Ineed to dilute the pretreat?
> 
> I am pressing for 2:40 @ 345 with light pressure. Does that sound right?


You should not dilute white pretreatment when using it for dark shirts. You should also make sure you are using the right cover sheets when heat pressing - uncoated parchment or butcher paper for pretreatment - silicone coated parchment paper for drying finished prints.

Harry


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## IGS-UK (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi,

I print between 200 & 500 dark shirts a week. The best pre treat is from Innovative Garment Solutions. No dilution is needed.

Best practise is pre press the shirt for 10 seconds @ 165c high pressure. Then pre treat, press with non silicone paper for 10 seconds very light pressure, normally just the weight of the heat platen. Remove paper and press 15 seconds high pressure. Works every time for me. 

Hope this helpd.

Colin


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

OK, I had much better results. I did several test area and washed twice with much better results no peeling. I do notice that I have some white poking through in red lettering. Is that do to too much pressure or to much heat. I have a knight clam press and am using very little pressure. Just the weight of the top plate resting on the shirt. There is not enough pressure for the press to release on it's own. For temp I am using 345 for 2:40. Tahnk for your help!!


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

Do you know if that pretreatment can be used with the Bright Inks from Colman & Company?


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## IGS-UK (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi,

Glad its helped, I am not sure if it can be used with those inks. I use fast ink 3 & its available from the same people. If you want the contact details email me.

Colin


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## IGS-UK (Sep 28, 2008)

Forgot to ask, are you in the UK ?


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## vinyl signs (Dec 26, 2007)

Try hovering the heat press over the shirt with no protectant sheet for the first drying time (2.5 min @330 deg) then cover image and heat press ad usual!


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

jsmith1189 said:


> OK, I had much better results. I did several test area and washed twice with much better results no peeling. I do notice that I have some white poking through in red lettering. Is that do to too much pressure or to much heat. I have a knight clam press and am using very little pressure. Just the weight of the top plate resting on the shirt. There is not enough pressure for the press to release on it's own. For temp I am using 345 for 2:40. Tahnk for your help!!


 
Hi Julie
Which method worked best? did you dilute the pretreatment or no?
Thanks


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

No the US. I found them on the Web Thanks


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

I did both. I have some already diluted so I did it both ways. There was not that much of a difference. It was only diluted by about 30%.


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

vinyl signs said:


> Try hovering the heat press over the shirt with no protectant sheet for the first drying time (2.5 min @330 deg) then cover image and heat press ad usual!


Well I am still having the white show through my red ink after pressing. Also after a 3rd wash the red is coming off and the white is showing through even more. Why can I not get this!!!!! Not sure if it matters but I am doing a hoodie.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

What is the content of the hoody? This can make a big difference.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

What print resolution are you printing at and how many layers, this can also have a big impact on your results. I will try to help if you can give me the exact process you are using for pretreating, printing and curing as all three of these factors need to be right to get good results. Let me know these and I will try to help you get better results


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> What print resolution are you printing at and how many layers, this can also have a big impact on your results. I will try to help if you can give me the exact process you are using for pretreating, printing and curing as all three of these factors need to be right to get good results. Let me know these and I will try to help you get better results


The hoddy is 90/10. I pretreat so that there is light gray color applied to the shirt. Then I brush the pretreatment downward. I press for 10 sec at 330 light pressure, then again for 10 sec medium pressure. 

1440 is my resolution. 1 run of white and 1 run of color. Looks great here.

I have tried light pressure 2:30 @ 330. 

Thank Bobbie


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

What if you try doing two passes of white at 720 x 720? This tends to work better on the white layer and then one pass at 1440. I would try that and see if it helps. Also let the press hover for 20 or 30 to set the ink alittle before pressing. I usually cure 180 sec. at 325 degrees. Hope this helps, let me know.


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

I Will try that and let you know my results.

Thanks!!!!


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

sunnydayz said:


> What if you try doing two passes of white at 720 x 720? This tends to work better on the white layer and then one pass at 1440. I would try that and see if it helps. Also let the press hover for 20 or 30 to set the ink alittle before pressing. I usually cure 180 sec. at 325 degrees. Hope this helps, let me know.


Hey Bobbie, sorry it has taken me a week to get back to you I have been sick and not working. Here is the result I am still getting alot of white showing through the red. I have attached photo. Here are what my settings on my RIP software are.

Color App: Vivid
Layer: Color Layer Auto Mask
Color Pass: 1
White Pass: 2
Output Profile: Auto
RGB Source: sRBG Profile (SWF told to to use that setting)
CMYK Source: SWOP Sim
Media Type: Black Cotton
Generate true Black: No
True Spot Color: No
Print Direction: BiDirectional
White Ink: 720 ( I did try both 1440 & 720)
Black Ink/Underbase: Default
Auto-White-Highlight: 10%
Step & Repeat PLatten: No Step & Repeat
Hold for Approval: No

Even after hovering I still have white coming through and then after pressing with very little pressure it comes through alot. The top of my press is barely touching the sweatshirt.


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## jsmith1189 (Jun 19, 2008)

Hey Bobbie,

Something that in reading alot of threads regarding the use of white ink. I noticed that a lot of people including yourself use quilan parchment and Silicone Parchment paper. I use the parchment paper from the grocery store (SWF said that would work) and a Teflon sheet from Colman & Company(which SWF recommended). Could that be way I am not getting good results? 

Thanks for your help!!!


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Hi Julie,

Sorry it took so long to respond, I've been really busy  I absolutely think that the paper from the store can be causing the problem. If it is silcone treated and you are using it for your pretreat, the silicone can coat the fibers of the garment and it can cause the ink to repell off of the fabric. You should only use the quilan paper for pretreating as it has no coating on it. Also I tried the teflon sheet for curing before and did not like it, I never got a good cure with it. That is why I use the silicone treated paper instead, as it allows for the steam to escape better. If you need any other help let me know. I will come back in a little bit and find the thread where I put links to where I buy my paper from. The places I get it from are really cheap.


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## JJfromJersey (Apr 17, 2008)

I have hd 80/20 cotton poly hoodies printed, and my biggest grip is that the treatment gave the pieces and over-all RUBBERY feel, is there anyway to prevent this from happening?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

It sounds like you are pretreating too heavy. That is what happens if there is too much pretreatment on the garment. It will feel kinda rubbery.


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