# DuraCut



## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I had mentioned a bad experience with DuraCut in one of the other threads and figured I'd post a picture. DuraCut is a product sold by Imprintables Warehouse that claims "it looks and feels identical to a screen printed design". It's supposed to be sheets of plastisol, I guess, that you can cut and heat press. I decided to try it on my softball team's jerseys. I'm a screen printer, so I printed the front with screen printing and used the DuraCut on the #'s on the back expecting them to look at least similar. After about 12 games/washes, this is what my # looks like on the back of my shirt.

It's embarrassing, especially with me providing the jerseys. It looks nothing like screen printing. The front of the shirts that I screen printed still look great. So just be careful, anybody that is considering using DuraCut. Try it out first and do several wash tests before selling it to any customers.


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## Greg Hamrick (Jan 25, 2007)

Wow Wee Rusty. While I'm sure you cured the DuraCut right...I must say that it looks like pure ole' dee Crap! That stuff can't be pastisol. Looks like cheap vinyl in the photos. Sorry bout your luck.


.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

rusty said:


> I had mentioned a bad experience with DuraCut in one of the other threads and figured I'd post a picture. DuraCut is a product sold by Imprintables Warehouse that claims "it looks and feels identical to a screen printed design". It's supposed to be sheets of plastisol, I guess, that you can cut and heat press. I decided to try it on my softball team's jerseys. I'm a screen printer, so I printed the front with screen printing and used the DuraCut on the #'s on the back expecting them to look at least similar. After about 12 games/washes, this is what my # looks like on the back of my shirt.
> 
> It's embarrassing, especially with me providing the jerseys. It looks nothing like screen printing. The front of the shirts that I screen printed still look great. So just be careful, anybody that is considering using DuraCut. Try it out first and do several wash tests before selling it to any customers.


Duracut actually does look and feel identical to screenprinting. It is also termed as a flooded sheet (or a sheet that is flooded with plastisol ink). Plastisol ink is the ink that is used to screenprint. I have a sweatshirt that I made with Duracut awhile back it says "Fairchance University," thats the name of the town I used to live in. I still wear it occasionally, and a few of the letters in "Fairchance" just started to crack, like the picture you displayed, I've had it for about 4-5 years. Maybe you dried it on high heat, not inside out. There has to be something wrong with the wash/dry process. Duracut just doesn't crack like that. I've sold it into the workwear market quite a bit. And those type of garments usually take quite a beating. I can send a call tag via UPS to pick up the rest of the sheets and the ruined garment. I'll test it personally and report back if you want.


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

That's why you want to buy from a company like Imprintables. because people like Josh make the company what it is.. Thumbs up Josh..


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> I can send a call tag via UPS to pick up the rest of the sheets and the ruined garment. I'll test it personally and report back if you want.


Josh, I appreciate the offer. I bought the DuraCut pre-cut from your Cut Center, so I don't have any left over DuraCut material. But thanks.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Is it possible that the duracut wasn't applied correctly?

Isn't curing the problem usually with plastisol ink cracking?

I haven't tried the duracut myself yet, but I've seen it in action on printed shirts and it looked like an interesting product.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Sure, it's possible it wasn't applied correctly. But I applied it exactly according to the directions that came with it, as I do all heat applied products. I've got a good Hix 400D heat press. I've successfully applied a lot of ThermoFlex by following their directions, so I don't think its likely that I just happen to not following the DuraCut directions correctly.

I'm thinking it probably has to do with the washing/drying, because I did see one of our jerseys this week that still looked pretty good (or at least much better than mine). My wife washes my shirts, so I can't really say how she washes and dries them. However, I can't imagine that she would be any rougher on a softball jersey than any other average person. So if the Duracut requires delicate washing and drying, then I probably should not have used it in the first place. It's just kind of ironic that the name is "DuraCut", so I expected it would be durable, and therefore a good choice for a softball jersey.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Sure, it's possible it wasn't applied correctly. But I applied it exactly according to the directions that came with it, as I do all heat applied products. I've got a good Hix 400D heat press. I've successfully applied a lot of ThermoFlex by following their directions, so I don't think its likely that I just happen to not following the DuraCut directions correctl


I'm hardly a heat press expert, but from what I've learned so far, the different heat presses can give different temperatures. That's not to say that there's anything really "wrong" with your press, but each press can often give different pressure amounts, different temperature readings in different areas, etc.

So it can take some testing and adjusting of the suggested instructions to make sure the product is applying correctly with your particular heat press.

I've followed specific instructions on a almost a dozen different transfer papers and makers and I think maybe only 1 or 2 worked right following the instructions exactly. 

It's possible that the thermoflex was tested with the same model press that you use, which makes the application of their vinyl much easier for you.

I found it pretty frustrating at first that the "instructions" I received for most transfers were more like "guidelines", but I'm slowly learning that there is a lot of testing involved with the process because of the different variables.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

!. That image is a complete failure for any plastisol product.
2. What I like about Thermoflex is that the application variables arent written in stone...meaning ten degrees from optimum gives the same results.
3. There must be some major difference from stock transfers to custom transfers to samples because we just print and go. I havent run into half the problems I have read about on the boards. Again...I am talking about stock transfers from the major providers (70 different designs on black and white tees) and any failures are for majority my fault. I do have one design in a series of five that I just cant get to stick. When I say print and go it is at events and one after ther other speedy fast with vinyl mixed in.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Rodney, I do realize that all heat presses run a little different temps than what they really show. And I would imagine if I did a bunch of extensive product testing, I could probably get better results with the Spectra Line. For example, SpectraCut II says to set the heat to 302 degrees. That spec itself, tells you that SpectraCut II is very sensitive to amount of heat used. And unfortunately there is no heat press around that can hold a steady 302 degrees. If you look at the instructions for ThermoFlex, they just say set the heat to 345-350, which also tells us that it's not as sensitive to getting the exact heat. And because of that alone, I would rather use the more forgiving product than to spend valuable hours doing product testing trying to find the Spectra sweet spot. As we've seen from one poster recently, they never found the Spectra sweet spot even after hours on the phone with customer support.

Considering that vinyl manufacturers know heat presses vary greatly with temperatures, you would think that they would design a product that works over a range of temperatures, rather than expecting the customer to go through a lot of testing to find their specific sweet spot. I believe that's what ThermoFlex has done.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

rusty said:


> Rodney, I do realize that all heat presses run a little different temps than what they really show. And I would imagine if I did a bunch of extensive product testing, I could probably get better results with the Spectra Line. For example, SpectraCut II says to set the heat to 302 degrees. That spec itself, tells you that SpectraCut II is very sensitive to amount of heat used. And unfortunately there is no heat press around that can hold a steady 302 degrees. If you look at the instructions for ThermoFlex, they just say set the heat to 345-350, which also tells us that it's not as sensitive to getting the exact heat. And because of that alone, I would rather use the more forgiving product than to spend valuable hours doing product testing trying to find the Spectra sweet spot. As we've seen from one poster recently, they never found the Spectra sweet spot even after hours on the phone with customer support.
> 
> Considering that vinyl manufacturers know heat presses vary greatly with temperatures, you would think that they would design a product that works over a range of temperatures, rather than expecting the customer to go through a lot of testing to find their specific sweet spot. I believe that's what ThermoFlex has done.


Again, there are pros and cons to each material. I could rattle off 10 things that I don't like about thermoflex and I'm sure you could do the same with Spectra. 

However...
The extensive testing has been done for Spectracut II and the "sweet spot" is 302 degrees at 10 - 15 seconds. If the material is not working at this temperature and time then something else needs tweaked. Might be cutting depth, might be pressure, might be the accuracy of the heat press (there are tips and tricks with any material)...if its none of these then it might be a "bad roll".

The customer that you are referring to, did not spend hours on the phone with us. I exchanged an email and a phone call with Micki. I could not resolve the problem, so I called her today to get the "bad" roll back from her to test. She is also mailing me a shirt that she had ruined. I will test this and report back the results. I'm crediting her money back and sending a replacement roll on the house once I identify the issue. 

It's well documented that you are not interested in using the Spectra materials and you will continue to use the Thermoflex. Thats absolutely fine. I can respect the fact that you are not willing to give the product a second chance. It's just not worth your time. However, I am still going on the record to say that these instances are isolated and can be remedied quickly and free for those who wish to pursue a solution and continue to use the product. 

I respect your preference to use Thermoflex over Spectra....I think they are both excellent products and have many success stories associated with each

Unless there is any other "technical" issue to resolve or specific question about the product, I feel like it's time to agree to disagree and move on...

Agreed?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

JoshEllsworth said:


> Unless there is any other "technical" issue to resolve or specific question about the product, I feel like it's time to agree to disagree and move on...
> 
> Agreed?


Sure Josh. I was just having a conversation with Rodney, replying to some of his comments. I'm not directing any of these comments at you. I think you are a great representative for Imprintables. This is just a topic sharing some experiences and opinions on a product, which is what this board is for.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> For example, SpectraCut II says to set the heat to 302 degrees. That spec itself, tells you that SpectraCut II is very sensitive to amount of heat used.


I'm 99% sure that when I did my shirts with spectracut ii (I used the pink and white colors), that I didn't have to have my press exactly at 302. In fact, as a general rule on my press (something I started doing since it seemed to work), I always set my press a few degrees hotter than the transfer instructions say.

I don't think that the spectracut II is "that" sensative to heat based on my tests, but there has to be some reason why it's working for some people and not working for others. 

If it's the same vinyl going to two different customers, it boggles me why it would work fine for customer A but not for customer B. But I digress, since this tread is about the duracut, which I haven't had a chance to try yet 

I do wonder if similar things happen to customers of thermoflex as well (working fine for customer A, but customer B can't get it to work).


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

That makes me curious too. Rodney, when you peeled the backing off the SpectraCut II, did it seem hard to pull off, like it was not wanting to let go? For me, it's like a real tug of war between the shirt and the backing to see who wins  Just curious if that's what happens when it's applied correctly, or if that's a sign I'm doing something wrong. I ask because the ThermoFlex peels very easily like "butter" so maybe I'm just expecting the SpectraCut to peel off easily too.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Rodney, when you peeled the backing off the SpectraCut II, did it seem hard to pull off, like it was not wanting to let go?


On a ribbed t-shirt I did, it was pretty hard to pull off (like it wasn't stuck to the t-shirt enough). I think that had more to do with the soft/fuzzy/ribbed texture rather than the backing.

I did 2 other shirts with the same design, different garment (toddler t-shirts) and they peeled just fine. Not butter like a hot peel, but not a tug of war or hard to peel. I waited until they were completely cold (almost forgot about them) until I peeled.



> Just curious if that's what happens when it's applied correctly, or if that's a sign I'm doing something wrong.


I think that might be a quality of cold peels, but I'm not 100% on that. Cold peels just don't seem to peel like butter like the hot peel transfers are. When I tried cold peel plastisol transfers, I had that tug of war feeling.


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## htt117 (Aug 31, 2006)

The 302 deg F temp sepc seems a bit precise, but if I remember my high school physics right 302 def F equals 150 deg. C. Likely this was set in metric units and translated into English/British units.

The reason this caught my eye, earlier this week, I received some Addidas soccer jerseys to number. The Addidas insert said maximum transfer temp was 302 deg F. Much lower than I was used to using for my transfers. I didn't have time to get Spectracut letters to use. I did find some Thermoflex precut letters locally and applied them at 305 deg f with no apparent problem. The thermoflex had a higher recommended temperature. How do the two products compare on an application temperature basis. Is the Spectracut a good choice for more heat sensitive garments?

Jim


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

htt117 said:


> The 302 deg F temp sepc seems a bit precise, but if I remember my high school physics right 302 def F equals 150 deg. C. Likely this was set in metric units and translated into English/British units.
> 
> The reason this caught my eye, earlier this week, I received some Addidas soccer jerseys to number. The Addidas insert said maximum transfer temp was 302 deg F. Much lower than I was used to using for my transfers. I didn't have time to get Spectracut letters to use. I did find some Thermoflex precut letters locally and applied them at 305 deg f with no apparent problem. The thermoflex had a higher recommended temperature. How do the two products compare on an application temperature basis. Is the Spectracut a good choice for more heat sensitive garments?
> 
> Jim


That's good to know. I've never tried ThermoFlex at lower than about 340, but it's good to know that you can go lower if you need to. It would make sense that SCII would work well on heat sensitive material since it's applied at 302 whereas ThermoFlex Plus is at 345. But if you say that TFP can be applied at 305 then they would be about the same.


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## htt117 (Aug 31, 2006)

They looked. Haven't heard back after they have been worn and washed. I've still got my fingers crossed.

Jim


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## KIKAYS (Aug 4, 2007)

hi rusty...where can i get the sportsfilm you said?..im from the philippines and im very much interested..


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## KIKAYS (Aug 4, 2007)

im using heat sublimation rightnow and i would like to try sportsfilm


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## Bambi_c2000_98 (Jul 23, 2007)

I am very new at this heat press vinyl. I called some of the suppliers and had them send me a couple of sample pieces (big enough to cut) so far I have found the thermoflex is very easy to peel but on some designs it will look heavy. Spectra cut II seams to peel very hard for me (not only the white) The spectra cut plus is nice but on one design started peeling off after the first wash. Hotmark 70 was easy to peel and was thin. So far thats the only ones I have gotten in but after I wash the shirt the vinyl seems to have ripples in all but the Thermoflex plus. Just my experiance and thats not much .........YET  I guess my suggestion is to call your suppliers and get some samples (they sent me about 8" pieces to try for free) and do your own tests.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

KIKAYS said:


> hi rusty...where can i get the sportsfilm you said?..im from the philippines and im very much interested..


TwillUSA sells SportFilm, and it's very cheap compared to other garment vinyls.


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Bambi try multicut from Transfer Papers and Sublimation Inks at Joto I think you will like that too. Also it comes in 20" width for about the same price as the thermoflex plus at 15" width.


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## Bambi_c2000_98 (Jul 23, 2007)

Thank you, thats the one I am waiting for right now......wish they would hurry up I cant wait to try it!


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

If you're looking for something more durable and rugged, Joto carries the TuffCut. It's probably comparable to the SportFilm. MultiCut is more comparable to ThermoFlex Plus.


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