# EPSON WF-7515 vs. J-Teck Absolute Black



## PxPrint (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi all,


I'm a Screen Printer and I'm new to Sublimation, so please don't kill me straight away. 

Before you ask, I have an EPSON WorkForce WF-7515 with a CISS system, J-Teck j-next JSX-65 sublimation inks loaded, and I use Corel Draw X6 with all the default ICC profiles set. The sublimation paper I'm using is from Sawgrass.

Cutting to the chase... I'm having problems with my black. Although it's called "Absolute Black", it's not even close to it... it's dark brown. When printed on sublimation paper looks pretty close to black, but when I transfer to the t-shirts the "blacks" come out brown. On normal paper also prints dark brown.
I'm getting very frustrated with this as I was told this was real black, thus the name "Absolute"... 


Does anyone know how can I solve this?
A different ICC profile does the trick? Which one should I be using? Shall I ask for a specific profile from J-Teck or from EPSON? I've searched, but couldn't find any from both manufacturers.

Help... 

Thanks in advance.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

PxPrint said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I'm a Screen Printer and I'm new to Sublimation, so please don't kill me straight away.
> ...


Unless you know how to force "K" then you get a composite black from the 3 other colors.

Your "Absolute Black" would be the true "K", not your composite black.

The default profile set in Corel is not for sublimation. You need an sublimation ICC for your printer and your inks, that is why your composite blacks are brown.


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## PxPrint (Jan 2, 2013)

mgparrish said:


> Unless you know how to force "K" then you get a composite black from the 3 other colors.
> 
> Your "Absolute Black" would be the true "K", not your composite black.
> 
> The default profile set in Corel is not for sublimation. You need an sublimation ICC for your printer and your inks, that is why your composite blacks are brown.


By "forcing K" you mean printing with only black at 100% leaving the CMY at 0%, right?

Are all black sublimation inks brown (straight out of the container)? 

I have contacted J-Teck and EPSON for ICC profiles. EPSON support replied with a copy&paste answer, showing me the path where the ICC profiles are located in Windows. Very helpful, thanks a lot... 
Still waiting for an answer from J-Teck.

Is there a way to workaround this, or the ICC profiles from the ink manufacturer are the only way to go?


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

PxPrint said:


> Are all black sublimation inks brown (straight out of the container)?


Is your black ink really brown out of the bottle? If you take an eye dropper and apply a little on paper, does it look brown? Or does it only look brown when printed?

To answer your question, the black for the three different sub inks I've used (none are J-Tec) are indeed black. I've only gotten brown when no or a wrong profile was used.


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## JYA (Jun 2, 2008)

For starters, I'd be designing in RGB.

Second, both J-Teck and Manoukian have the darkest blacks I've seen in our business.

Third, don't be surprised if J-Teck can't help you with a profile. They are used to dealing with wide format printers which can lay down a lot of ink.


Sent on my Galaxy S4 via the Junkyard Athletic 4G LTE network.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

PxPrint said:


> By "forcing K" you mean printing with only black at 100% leaving the CMY at 0%, right?
> 
> Are all black sublimation inks brown (straight out of the container)?
> 
> ...


You need an ICC sublimation profile, Epson will not supply that you are putting something into the printer that it is not designed for. 

You need to get the profile from the vendor and I doubt you could as J-Teck is large format inks and they license from Sawgrass for use in greater than >42 inch carriage printers. 

Your best option is to have one made if your ink vendor won't support. Suggest not mentioning anything ever to Epson about putting sub inks in the printer ... definitely a no no.

I have good composite blacks with my inks as I have a sublimation profile so I never force K in Corel so I'm not sure if what you state works, but won't hurt to try. I do force "K" on occasion in Photoshop you need a grayscale workspace and then in the Epson driver (most I have used) there is an option for Grayscale printing ... _but this is for B/W prints_ where the K is used and then dithered into grayscales.

I don't know any way to force K in a full color photographs except on some lasers, or by printing at lower resolutions perhaps.

But you can try in CD to set the black to CMYK color and then only use "K" at the max levels then the other colors for that object at 0 levels. If this works it would only be applicable to objects and not emmbedded full color photos. Maybe text, shapes, line art, and clip art that is monotone etc . Someone that has experience forcing K in Corel Draw might "chime" in, I have never needed to do it.

This won't solve your problem but you could evaluate just how "Absolute" the black is by just printing some large size text in Wordpad making sure the text is black, then print with the Epson driver set to low print resolution or the Epson Driver can be set to "grayscale" as the screen shot attached shows for your model. 

Note the green circled option. Again, this does not fix your problem, it can allow you make a transfer to evaluate your "K". Again, likely your problem is not the "Absolute" black, rather the problem is no profile which effects your composite black.

In lieu of a profile it is possible for non-photographic type media to use the "swatch" method. This works well in vector art where objects are easy to "fill", not so easy in bitmaps though.

See this website and study, you won't need their RIP to impliment. There are also swatches you can use in CD there for download, and of course you can create you own pallete colors too. 

CMYK & RGB Color Charts - MultiRIP Sublimation, Transfers, Photograph and Direct-to-Garment Printing RIP Softwares


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## sean815 (Jan 7, 2013)

I also use Jteck ink and use absolute black. I can tell you its not the ink since i get nice black prints. I spoke to them in the past over the phone and they can provide profiles for some printers, just call them. They took forever to reply via email. But using a good RIP would probably solve your problems. We use Wasatch


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## PxPrint (Jan 2, 2013)

Sorry for the delay. 
Yesterday late afternoon (I'm on GMT), I got a call from my country's J-Teck distributor, who got my e-mail forwarded by the manufacturer. 
Basically we had the same conversation we had before I buy the inks - they guaranteed the Absolute Black turns to real black when sublimated. Which I haven't manage to achieve... yet.
I've asked for an ICC profile or any kind of help with the configs but all I got was a "we don't have an ICC for your printer" and a "I don't know what config you should use with that printer". Cool!! 
So why did they call me?!? To say Hi?



GordonM said:


> Is your black ink really brown out of the bottle? If you take an eye dropper and apply a little on paper, does it look brown? Or does it only look brown when printed?
> 
> To answer your question, the black for the three different sub inks I've used (none are J-Tec) are indeed black. I've only gotten brown when no or a wrong profile was used.


Yes, when applied on normal paper, the Absolute Black is brown.
At this point I believe that the issue is in my color profiles. Now the question is: Which one should I use?

Using the default CMYK profile, the blacks turn brown after sublimating.
I'm currently testing RGB. I'll report back when done.


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## PxPrint (Jan 2, 2013)

JYA said:


> For starters, I'd be designing in RGB.
> 
> Second, both J-Teck and Manoukian have the darkest blacks I've seen in our business.
> 
> ...


So far, you are right. J-Teck didn't help with the profile.

I'm testing RGB mode. Will report when done.


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## PxPrint (Jan 2, 2013)

sean815 said:


> I also use Jteck ink and use absolute black. I can tell you its not the ink since i get nice black prints. I spoke to them in the past over the phone and they can provide profiles for some printers, just call them. They took forever to reply via email. But using a good RIP would probably solve your problems. We use Wasatch


Ok... but you have a large format printer, right? For those they have profiles... I have a small EPSON WorkForce. 
Implementing a RIP is not an option for me. Way too expensive for the amount of sublimations I plan to do.
But it's good to know that the problem can be solved by software and there is no problem with the ink.


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## sean815 (Jan 7, 2013)

PxPrint said:


> Ok... but you have a large format printer, right? For those they have profiles... I have a small EPSON WorkForce.
> Implementing a RIP is not an option for me. Way too expensive for the amount of sublimations I plan to do.
> But it's good to know that the problem can be solved by software and there is no problem with the ink.


Correct I have large format and a small format, both are supported by the software. You might be stuck going with sawgrass inks since they offer many profiles and for workforces also.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

PxPrint said:


> Yes, when applied on normal paper, the Absolute Black is brown.


If you're saying the blank ink is brown when dropped onto paper (not printed by your printer) then the problem can't have anything to with your profile. It sounds like your inks have either expired or they've been prematurely activated by being exposed to heat.

If it drops black on paper, but prints brown, then it's likely a profile issue. You can easily have profiles made, or make them yourself with rented hardware. 



PxPrint said:


> Using the default CMYK profile, the blacks turn brown after sublimating.
> I'm currently testing RGB. I'll report back when done.


Sub ink that starts out as black then turns brown is often the result of too much time, or too high temperature, or both.



PxPrint said:


> Using the default CMYK profile...


You should not be using any CMYK profiles. You should choose an RGB profile for your document, and then the proper printer profile (when you get it) for your printer. Your printer may print with CMYK inks, but you do not use a CMYK profile for your document. This only causes the Epson driver to do a conversion from CMYK space to RGB, and that can cause a color shift.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> If you're saying the blank ink is brown when dropped onto paper (not printed by your printer) then the problem can't have anything to with your profile. It sounds like your inks have either expired or they've been prematurely activated by being exposed to heat.


You are making an assumption here, and that is that his "black" inks on his transfer paper are coming solely from the K cart.

There is no way for you to know that, nor does he, unless he forces K and K only.

It must either be forced thru the software, transfering a nozzle check, or take a small amount of inks _stragiht out of the bottle_ and place directly on transfer paper then press.

It should have everything thing to do with his profile _as he isn't using a sublimation profile_.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

mgparrish said:


> You are making an assumption here, and that is that his "black" inks on his transfer paper are coming solely from the K cart.


If you had actually READ my comment before hitting the Reply button you'd see I was talking about taking black ink directly from the bottle.

I was clearly talking about the same thing you said -- read post #4. I'm warning you: stop harassing me.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> If you had actually READ my comment before hitting the Reply button you'd see I was talking about taking black ink directly from the bottle.
> 
> I was clearly talking about the same thing you said -- read post #4. I'm warning you: stop harassing me.


You are correct about your mention direct from the bottle.

But since he never clarified that he is using K and K only, then your comment is based on an assumption. _You are wandering off too far too soon. _

Your suggestion might lead him to going back to the vendor claiming expired inks. Good luck with that. He needs to test properely and update. 99.9 % his inks are fine, he needs a profile. I'm not harrassing you I just disagree with you and your methods sometimes, nothing personal.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

GordonM said:


> If you had actually READ my comment before hitting the Reply button you'd see I was talking about taking black ink directly from the bottle.
> 
> I was clearly talking about the same thing you said -- read post #4. I'm warning you: stop harassing me.


To add ...

"If it drops black on paper, but prints brown, then it's likely a profile issue."

If it prints black ink drop on paper (forced K) and prints black too by forcing K in the software, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a profile problem, not saying you stated it that way. But if he is not using a sublimation profile HE HAS A PROFILE PROBLEM. You are implying there could be no profile issues the way you state "likely".


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## sean815 (Jan 7, 2013)

LOL, Do I have to pull the car over?


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