# Thinking about screen printing as a hobby: some questions



## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

I wouldn't want to spend more than a few hundred dollars (not counting the cost of a refurbished Epson 1400, which I could use for other things as well). However, I also don't want poor quality results.

So are some of the more expensive items (e.g., flash dryers, final cure dryers) necessary for achieving good results?

Screen printing equipment seems to be ridiculously overpriced in general (or maybe I'm not looking in the right places). 

Some specific questions:

1. I'd like to use "plastisol ink" based on what I've read/heard; but is it possible to cure it with low cost methods such as a heat gun or iron? Keep in mind that this would be a hobby, so production speed isn't really an issue. If not, is there a type of ink that I could use for both good results and a proper cure with low cost methods?

2. Aside from the Epson 1400, what else is needed for good results? Paying nearly three times the cost of the printer itself for Accurip software is not an option. Assuming I don't need to print halftones, can the printer print effective positives without additional expensive software?

3. Does anyone make a reasonably priced, high quality single color press? For example, $445.00 for the Riley Hopkins Econo Series 1 Color 1 Station Press (the "Econo" part of the model name is wildly inappropriate) is decidely not reasonable. In fact, it falls into the "ridiculously overpriced" category that I mentioned earlier. Looking at the machine, there is hardly anything to it. It could probably be custom fabricated as a one-off at a machine shop for less money than that (assuming you gave them adequate plans). 

Some welded tubular steel, and a spring-loaded bracket? Compare that to some other machinery that is used in niche markets. For example, how about a Dillon Precision RL 550B progressive reloader for $419.95? It is far more complex (given that it automates the reloading process), and requires far tighter manufacturing tolerances than that single color screen printing press; and it is very high quality. 

How about an Eagnas Flex 940 tennis racket restringing machine for $419? Again, we have a machine for a niche market, which is far more complex than the single color screen printing press; and is high quality, and well-received in the racket stringing community.










Ironically, in the reloading community, Dillion presses are widely considered to be the best, but _expensive_. They are a downright _steal_ compared to the prices of screen printing presses.

Okay, so I got a little off-track there, but any suggestions/recommendations regarding how to print good quality shirts as a hobby without breaking the bank would be appreciated.


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## evasivenotraKcs (Mar 27, 2010)

with your epson 1400 and a decent knowledge of photoshop, you can certainly output high quality, even halftone, film positives. You do not need accurip. The seperation software and bulk ink systems help to make the process less involved, but is unnecessary for a hobbyist. 
You could try building your own press if you want, otherwise expect to spend some money. A single color press is just glorified hinges, clamps, platen and springs. there will be less of a headache in just buying one, and truthfully, you will probably want multiple colors really soon.
The heat gun method can and does work, it is just obviously prone to not curing the ink in spots here and there due to minimal coverage and obviously being rather slow, which may be fine for your hobbyist interests.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

evasivenotraKcs said:


> with your epson 1400 and a decent knowledge of photoshop, you can certainly output high quality, even halftone, film positives. You do not need accurip. The seperation software and bulk ink systems help to make the process less involved, but is unnecessary for a hobbyist.
> You could try building your own press if you want, otherwise expect to spend some money. A single color press is just glorified hinges, clamps, platen and springs. there will be less of a headache in just buying one, and truthfully, you will probably want multiple colors really soon.
> The heat gun method can and does work, it is just obviously prone to not curing the ink in spots here and there due to minimal coverage and obviously being rather slow, which may be fine for your hobbyist interests.


So I can get the positives dark enough without Accurip?

I would do multiple colors on a single color press. All it requires is extra time and effort with regard to registration, as compared to a multi-color press, correct? If the prices for single color presses are outrageous, the prices for multi-color ones are insane. 

I wonder why such ridiculous prices are tolerated in this particular field. It seems like a golden opportunity for a new competitor to step in and offer quality-built presses at something like 1/10th the cost of everyone else, and still make a profit in doing so.


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

Look at the packages on this page: Screen Printing Packages Obviously you will only be looking at the ones at the top that are very inexpensive.

Ryonet is an excellent company and their silver press is very good for the price, and really you can't build your own for much less (and it probably wouldn't be as good).

If you did want to do dark shirts, you will need a flash dryer to flash the underbase. The flash dryer would also cure the inks evenly and give you a much more robust and wash-fast shirt over a heat gun.

I have seen some cheap plugins for Photoshop and CorelDRAW to print out film with good halftones not needing a RIP. Steve Yates Graphics and AdvancedTShirts.com have them.

If you spend just a little more than you planned and get a package from Ryonet, you will not be disappointed and actually be able to make pro quality shirts for a hobby. Who knows, it might lead you into the industry for a profession. And no, I don't work for Ryonet or get kickbacks from them. I just have not seen a better way to start from zero and get into screen printing affordably (hobby or not).


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## nuclear_j (Dec 9, 2009)

If you want to do it as a hobby, start small and work your way up. Things to do: 
1.) get "Screen printing for fun and profit" - read it about three times

2.) build / make-shift setup for all your equipment or go to art store and buy a kit.

3.) Print a few designs, and then see where you want your level of involvement to be.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

bornover said:


> Look at the packages on this page: Screen Printing Packages Obviously you will only be looking at the ones at the top that are very inexpensive.
> 
> Ryonet is an excellent company and their silver press is very good for the price, and really you can't build your own for much less (and it probably wouldn't be as good).


Yes, I've seen (and considered those). I may end up going that way; I just have an aversion to paying far more for a product than it is worth. It isn't a matter of being able to afford it or not. I was hoping there might be a press manufacturer with more realistic prices.

I don't plan on trying to build one, but someone with metal fabricating skills/tools (which doesn't include myself) could make those presses cheaper (and just as good or better, depending on their skills/tools); even with paying retail prices for the materials.

It is a good thing that Epson printers aren't designed/manufactured by a screen printing supply company; because they would probably start at $1500. 



> If you did want to do dark shirts, you will need a flash dryer to flash the underbase. The flash dryer would also cure the inks evenly and give you a much more robust and wash-fast shirt over a heat gun.


What is the underbase for exactly? I've seen videos of people printing white on black for example, in just a single pass of ink. Here is an example.



> I have seen some cheap plugins for Photoshop and CorelDRAW to print out film with good halftones not needing a RIP. Steve Yates Graphics and AdvancedTShirts.com have them.


Thanks. I probably won't be interested in printing halftones though, as I have a strong preference for traditional "vector-style" art; i.e., solid spot colors with sharp edges. I don't know the real name for that style of art (it was in use; drawn by hand; long before there was any such thing as vector programs on computers). 

Most of the classic arcade machines from the '70s and '80s had this style of art; usually screen printed on vinyl (sideart), Lexan (control panel overlays), plexiglass & glass (bezels & marquees), and steel (certain control panels). T-shirts were more often than not, screen printed with this same style of art back then too (and today as well). I associate this style of art with screen printing, and I also love the look of it; it is bright, sharp, and it "pops". 

BTW, I've created files several times (in Illustrator) for use in professional screen printing runs of reproduction arcade artwork (built specifically for screen printing, with the colors on their own layers, in the correct order for printing, and with traps and bleeds) and once for a T-shirt for myself (in CorelDraw, before I learned Illustrator); so I know that end of the process pretty well; at least the vector side of it.


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## DTFuqua (Jun 26, 2008)

Definatly for a hobbiest or even a small producer you should look at Home Page


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

MaximRecoil said:


> I don't plan on trying to build one, but someone with metal fabricating skills/tools (which doesn't include myself) could make those presses cheaper (and just as good or better, depending on their skills/tools); even with paying retail prices for the materials.


While what your saying is essentially correct, for a manufacture to market a product such as a multi-color press with micros there is a ton of research and development costs, not to mention the design costs, or the marketing costs, or the cost of materials that are sub'd to contractors to make in quantity, the assembly of sub assemblies prior to packaging, then the packaging, warehousing, the costs involved to bring a product to market from a drawing board concept to the actual product the customer buys is very very expensive.

If you think screen printing equipment is very inflated you should look into DTG printers. LOL!

Hope this helps.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

IYFGraphics said:


> While what your saying is essentially correct, for a manufacture to market a product such as a multi-color press with micros there is a ton of research and development costs, not to mention the design costs, or the marketing costs, or the cost of materials that are sub'd to contractors to make in quantity, the assembly of sub assemblies prior to packaging, then the packaging, warehousing, the costs involved to bring a product to market from a drawing board concept to the actual product the customer buys is very very expensive.


I provided the examples of the other machines (the reloading press and the racket stringer). All of those things apply to them as well, but in the case of some of your points; far more so (because they are far more complex machines; and in the case of the reloading press, it requires very tight tolerances in certain critical areas). For example, it is far more of an engineering feat to design a machine that will reliably produce a loaded round of ammunition with every pull of the handle; than it is to create a machine that allows a screen to be clamped into place and raised and lowered into position. In fact, for a long time, only Dillon was able to do it (other companies tried, but their progressive presses were widely considered to be troublesome/unreliable). 

Even a single-stage reloading press (as opposed to the "progressive" presses from Dillon and other companies, which automate the process to the point that once you set them up with the reloading components, you get a loaded round with every pull of the handle) is more complex than a single color screen printing press. The RCBS Rock Chucker is widely considered to be the best single-stage press on the market (and has been for ages), and it sells for about $150 (about 1/3 the cost of the Riley Hopkins Econo Series 1 Color 1 Station Press).



> If you think screen printing equipment is very inflated you should look into DTG printers. LOL!


I don't doubt it.


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

MaximRecoil said:


> Even a single-stage reloading press (as opposed to the "progressive" presses from Dillon and other companies, which automate the process to the point that once you set them up with the reloading components, you get a loaded round with every pull of the handle) is more complex than a single color screen printing press. The RCBS Rock Chucker is widely considered to be the best single-stage press on the market (and has been for ages), and it sells for about $150 (about 1/3 the cost of the Riley Hopkins Econo Series 1 Color 1 Station Press).


I don't disagree at all, but in the case of the reloader it's the dies that provide the precision not really the actual press, and it's been a lot of years since I've reloaded shells but the old reloader I had (RCI or RCBI I think) could be had very reasonable but the dies for the varying calibers was the expensive part of the press and were very hi precision.

I also think that a lot of prices for machinery is inflated because of what I call "value added" in that you will use the machine to make a product that you will sell at a profit and the manufacture thinks there is value there so inflates the price, it's been my theory on DTG printers and I'm sure it crosses over to other machinery.

Hope this helps.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

IYFGraphics said:


> I don't disagree at all, but in the case of the reloader it's the dies that provide the precision not really the actual press, and it's been a lot of years since I've reloaded shells but the old reloader I had (RCI or RCBI I think [RCBS]) could be had very reasonable but the dies for the varying calibers was the expensive part of the press and were very hi precision.


In the case of a _reliable_ progressive press, more than just the dies require high precision. They also require some impressive engineering. BTW, dies can be had for cheap, for example. I never spent more than $20 for a set of dies.



> I also think that a lot of prices for machinery is inflated because of what I call "value added" in that you will use the machine to make a product that you will sell at a profit and the manufacture thinks there is value there so inflates the price, it's been my theory on DTG printers and I'm sure it crosses over to other machinery.


Yes, and that's annoying. It is not necessary either. For example, with the racket stringer; the model I mentioned for $420 is very similar to the models I've seen in shops that restring rackets for a fee (i.e., floor model, spring tension, integrated clamps), and is in fact considered a professional model. On the other hand, no pro print shop of a significant size would be using a table-top single color press; yet they want $445 for it.


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

Maybe you should pick up reloading or tennis raquet stringing as a hobby!? Just kidding, but back to topic, lots of guys that do it a s a hobby pick up a set of jiffy clamps and bolt them to a table. There are alot of very cheap ways to accomplish a print at a hobbiest level. Lots of times you can find really cheap stuff on craigslist if your patient. Best of luck


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

n.signia said:


> Maybe you should pick up reloading or tennis raquet stringing as a hobby!?


I've done both for years; off and on.



> Just kidding, but back to topic, lots of guys that do it a s a hobby pick up a set of jiffy clamps and bolt them to a table.


I was thinking about doing that actually. What are some quality ones? Something like these? Even those are comically overpriced, especially for being made out of die-cast zinc (for that price, they should be drop-forged steel, machined, and with an industrial hard chrome finish [lol]).

Judging from the link in your signature line, you are from Maine. What part?


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

The hinges in your link are the ones I was thinking of, Ive never used them, but lot of folks on the forums have, and seem to agree those are the ones to get.

Are you from Maine as well? We are in Standish, which is close to Portland. (southern Maine area)


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

n.signia said:


> Are you from Maine as well? We are in Standish, which is close to Portland. (southern Maine area)


Yeah, I'm in Dexter; so if you're near Portland, that is about 2 hours away. 

Are you familiar with Berg Enterprises? They are a pretty big screen printing shop in my area (Corinna, less than 10 minutes from here). They print the shirts that Howie Carr (a former Mainer himself) gives away on his radio talk show. 

I've been in there a few times to work with their artist on a design I had printed there. I wanted to use them for the first video arcade game sideart reproduction project that I did the artwork for, but they aren't set up to print on vinyl. I ended up having Modern Screenprint in Bangor print the run, as they specialize in vinyl (they are pretty big too; they do work for LL Bean for example); and they did an awesome job (plus Dave is a great guy; a pleasure to work with).


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## n.signia (Nov 21, 2007)

Cool! I have a good freind from Dexter. I am familiar with Berg and the stuff they have done for Carr. I am always pleased to see Maine
Companies doing well.


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## evasivenotraKcs (Mar 27, 2010)

to answer your question to me yes you can print plenty dark enough positive films to burn your screen with the epson. in the printer dialog box select best quality photo and the best quality of glossy photo paper. I suggest using the R-film from ryonet, it works great, and since youre looking as a hobbyist know that if you call and order you can get less than the 100 sheets at a time.

Printing multi color designs with a single color press will make you pull out your hair, I promise. You wont get consistent registration, and constantly changing things is the worst. You could try building the diy four color press that there are plans for on here. it works pretty damn well for $150 in materials.

Also since you want to do multiple colors do not forget to get multiple squegees. its the little things that slip your mind when setting up for stuff you dont know about that end up being a PITA.


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

MaximRecoil, will your hobby be complaining about overly high prices, or will it be screen printing? 

Who cares if you spend a few hundred more than you thought you should. It is only a few hundred and you can start printing instead of fretting about prices. Now if it were thousands I would be there with you. Get a Silver press and start enjoying hobby printing.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

bornover said:


> MaximRecoil, will your hobby be complaining about overly high prices, or will it be screen printing?


The former is not a hobby. I haven't decided on the latter yet.



> Who cares if you spend a few hundred more than you thought you should.


I do, obviously. I wouldn't expect anyone else to care if _I_ spend a few hundred more on something than it is worth. 



> It is only a few hundred and you can start printing instead of fretting about prices.


I can start printing without a press at all. That's probably what I'll do. 



evasivenotraKcs said:


> Printing multi color designs with a single color press will make you pull out your hair, I promise. You wont get consistent registration, and constantly changing things is the worst.


How would it be any more difficult than setting the initial registration on a multi-color press? I understand that once you have the registration set for all your screens on a multi-color press, you can crank out the shirts without worrying about it again for the remainder of the run, but what if you are only printing one shirt? Is there any advantage to a multi-color press then?


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

I may have found something (link). 

It is obviously solid (welded tubular steel frame), and extremely stable from front to back (compare that to how tipsy the Silver Press looks; not to mention its light _aluminum_ construction). 

It is made by a "small welding and fabricating shop" ("About Us" page). The $119 price tag confirms what I said earlier; i.e., that something like this could be custom fabricated for far less than the screen printing manufacturers are charging (compare to $445 for a similarly constructed press from Riley Hopkins).

I'll have to contact the guy and make sure he still makes/sells them and how much shipping costs. If everything is kosher, I think that's what I'll buy (unless someone knows of something that is more solid, for less money).


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## bornover (Apr 10, 2008)

I don't understand why the 1 color Silver press, at only $50 dollars more, that gives you off contact and tilt adjustments is such an over priced press. You will save time in the long run because the bottom side of the screen will not acquire the ink buildup that will cause poor quality prints making you to stop printing and clean the screen. The adjustments the press has also provide a better overall print compared to a press that does not have them because you can level the screen correctly over the platen.

My point MaximRecoil is two fold. First I believe the Ryonet Silver press, any model, is a very good value for what you get. It is my opinion that it is not over priced because it would be hard to build it for the same amount of money (unless you own a fabrication shop). Second, a Silver Press gets you equipment that is proven, solid and reliable in your hands quickly and you can start printing.

Yes, you can screen print with equipment that costs next to nothing, they do it in the Philippines all the time on table setups. But they do it because they don't have a way to get better equipment at affordable prices for them because of shipping, tariff and other costs we don't have. They typically also don't have the monetary resources we have in the US.

I am only encouraging you to go with a Silver Press because, if you plan to enjoy a screen printing hobby for years to come, it will save time, give you a better print, and be easy to maintain in the long run. Sorry if any of my posts came off a little confrontational. I was trying to be funny but make a point at the same time. I just thought the amounts of money we were talking about were small enough to not worry about when you have a proven, reliable and excellent choice and can have it in your hands in just a few days, vs. the alternative of a long time consuming process of running down parts or a pre-made unit of lesser features. That and I just have too much time on my hands to post in this darn forum. I better go print something!


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

bornover said:


> I don't understand why the 1 color Silver press, at only $50 dollars more, that gives you off contact and tilt adjustments is such an over priced press.


It is light, aluminum, cheap looking, and looks like it isn't particularly stable. I'm not concerned about tilt adjustments, and off-contact can be accomplished in a variety of ways.



> You will save time in the long run because the bottom side of the screen will not acquire the ink buildup that will cause poor quality prints making you to stop printing and clean the screen.


This is a hobby, not a business. I will stop printing after 1 pass per screen anyway. I have no need to make more than one shirt of a particular design for myself. 



> The adjustments the press has also provide a better overall print compared to a press that does not have them because you can level the screen correctly over the platen.


That's assuming you have a warped screen and/or equipment, correct?

Additionally, the press made by the Knight MFG guy has a very interesting (unique perhaps?) method of adding micro-adjust (for registration), and additional color capabilities at the same time; for $32 per set. So to make it work as a 2-color press with micro-adjust, it is an extra $64; to make it work as a 3-color press with micro-adjust, it is an extra $96, and so on. Note that adding micro-adjust to the Silver Press is like $100 per color, and that doesn't simultaneously add additional color capabilities either (in fact, you simply _can't_ add additional color capabilities to the _single color_ Silver Press).

So a 4 color 1 station Silver Press with micro-adjust on all 4 colors would cost $800. For the Knight press, it would be $247 (plus you could keep going to however many colors you wanted; at the rate of $32 each).

*Edit:* It just occurred to me that the sets of micros that he sells could work with any press, as long as the platen and screen are the size that they are designed to work with. 

Plus I simply like the way it is built. It is not surprising that this guy is into BMX (another one of my hobbies) ... he knows a thing or two about mechanical strenth in machinery (I like "overbuilt" stuff).


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## evasivenotraKcs (Mar 27, 2010)

to truly register a print you end up throwing away a t shirt that you test your registration by printing your registration marks.
With a one hinge/clamp/station press how are you planning on having multiple color screens in place ready to print in exactly the right place? You either plan on having to switch screens in your clamps hoping to get them lined up right in the clamps, or to have multiple presses with the seperate colors set up in them ready to roll, and either move the shirt from press to press hoping you get the shirt in the right spot? or you plan on fabricating some system with register-able platens that move press to press? 
One, people are just trying to help you here. I posted on your thread letting you know advice from someone who thought ehh F it i can just do it my own way and figured out that theres reasons for certain things in this art. 
Two, how the hell are micro reg adustments going to be necessary on a single station press? its not a moving assembly that you have to have the screens line up in the same place as you rotate for different colors. If your plan is just to get however many singles color presses as colors why dont you just make a platen with registration pins that fit into your screens and not buy a press at all. 
Three, for being into BMX that guy welds some ghetto *** "launch ramps"........
Four, either way you're spending a ton of money just to be printing some shirts for yourself why not make it so if by chance you are good at it you have equipment you could use commercially?


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

evasivenotraKcs said:


> to truly register a print you end up throwing away a t shirt that you test your registration by printing your registration marks.


Use pellons, they are much cheaper.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

evasivenotraKcs said:


> to truly register a print you end up throwing away a t shirt that you test your registration by printing your registration marks.
> With a one hinge/clamp/station press how are you planning on having multiple color screens in place ready to print in exactly the right place? You either plan on having to switch screens in your clamps hoping to get them lined up right in the clamps, or to have multiple presses with the seperate colors set up in them ready to roll, and either move the shirt from press to press hoping you get the shirt in the right spot? or you plan on fabricating some system with register-able platens that move press to press?


Are you talking about with the Knight MFG press? If so, you don't even use the hinge clamps if you are doing multiple colors. 



> Two, how the hell are micro reg adustments going to be necessary on a single station press? its not a moving assembly that you have to have the screens line up in the same place as you rotate for different colors. If your plan is just to get however many singles color presses as colors why dont you just make a platen with registration pins that fit into your screens and not buy a press at all.


That's what the "micros" that he sells are, registration pins that screw onto the screen and register to the platen and then lock in place; and yes, it would work on just a platen. But I want the press with the hinge clamps because it is more convenient to use for single color prints (and still can work with the registration pins for multicolor of course).



> Three, for being into BMX that guy welds some ghetto *** "launch ramps"........


What is "ghetto" about it? The legs are made from 11 gauge (wall thickness) steel tubing, with what appear to be 1/4" thick steel plates on the top for mounting to the ramp frame. Do you realize how thick 11 gauge is for steel? That's .1196", which is nearly 1/8" (.125"). That slightly exceeds the wall thickness that is required by the NHRA for rollbars/rollcages in certain cars.

Then there are the smaller details such as the 3/8" grade 5 bolts and the exterior oil-based floor paint (very durable stuff). He says that the one in the picture is the original prototype that he made 15 years ago. If you consider the construction of that ramp to be "ghetto", then I question your eye for / concept of mechanical strength and solid design. 



> Four, either way you're spending a ton of money just to be printing some shirts for yourself why not make it so if by chance you are good at it you have equipment you could use commercially?


Using registration pins on a platen seems to be by far the cheapest way to print multicolor, and also seems to be a foolproof, reliable, and accurate method of registration. 

And I won't be spending a "ton of money", and what do you mean by "just"? A few hundred dollars isn't a "ton of money" "just" to be able to make your own screen printed shirts. A few hundred dollars isn't a lot compared to the cost involved in many hobbies that are also not commercial ventures.


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## evasivenotraKcs (Mar 27, 2010)

bro,
i didnt say anything about the solidness of the retarded flat "kicker ramp" or that it wouldnt outlast a ton of other things. I said it was ghetto because its a flat ramp. It' be like me being like bro come ride my quarter pipe and it looked like this /] 
If you cant find a piece of wood to prop up on something to achieve the same goal of that ramp you shouldn't be riding in the first place.
And lord knows that oil based floor paint must be way better than powdercoating.
Obviously by the way you have argued over technical specifications of a product entirely unrelated to screen printing your interests must be having someone say yeah bro its a great idea get that press.
Yeah bro its a great idea get that press!


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

evasivenotraKcs said:


> bro,
> i didnt say anything about the solidness of the retarded flat "kicker ramp" or that it wouldnt outlast a ton of other things. I said it was ghetto because its a flat ramp. It' be like me being like bro come ride my quarter pipe and it looked like this /]
> If you cant find a piece of wood to prop up on something to achieve the same goal of that ramp you shouldn't be riding in the first place.


My initial comment mentioning his BMX interest was with regard to understanding mechanical strength in design; you know, like a strong frame, handlebars, dropouts, etc. Whether or not you think it would be fun to use or not is completely irrelevant (neither does it have anything to do with "ghetto", which suggests shoddy construction).


> And lord knows that oil based floor paint must be way better than powdercoating.


It is. Power coating is overrated. Manufacturers use it mainly because it is cheap to apply once you are set up for it, and is more durable than many types of paint; "good enough" so to speak. In the old days, all industrial machinery used oil-based paint (usually gray; you may have seen some old machinery with that type of finish). For example, my Williamson commercial oil furnace in the basement, built in the 1950s, has that typical industrial gray oil-based paint finish that you used to see on pretty much everything (and still see on some things), and it is still in perfect shape. On the other hand, my powder coated Asahi Seiko coin doors on my Super Punch-Out arcade machine from 1984 have little specks of rust all over them that you can see if you look closely, as well as some flaked/chipped off areas around tight bends.

Floor paint has to stand up to people walking on and driving over it (with e.g., forklifts). This is the stuff you'll see in factories on the cement floors when lines or numbers or whatever need to be painted there. Speaking of factories, all the machinery I used in the two shoe factories I worked at when I was younger were painted with industrial oil-based paint; and most of it was about 50 years old. 



> Obviously by the way you have argued over technical specifications of a product entirely unrelated to screen printing your interests must be having someone say yeah bro its a great idea get that press.
> Yeah bro its a great idea get that press!


Thanks for the attempted (yet failed) crystal ball reading, but I hope you're not expecting any payment for it.


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## evasivenotraKcs (Mar 27, 2010)

MaximRecoil said:


> My initial comment mentioning his BMX interest was with regard to understanding mechanical strength in design; you know, like a strong frame, handlebars, dropouts, etc. Whether or not you think it would be fun to use or not is completely irrelevant (neither does it have anything to do with "ghetto", which suggests shoddy construction).


So i guess if someone made a wheel that wasn't round but square and it held up that it'd not be ghetto... okay.



MaximRecoil said:


> It is. Power coating is overrated. Manufacturers use it mainly because it is cheap to apply once you are set up for it, and is more durable than many types of paint; "good enough" so to speak. In the old days, all industrial machinery used oil-based paint (usually gray; you may have seen some old machinery with that type of finish). For example, my Williamson commercial oil furnace in the basement, built in the 1950s, has that typical industrial gray oil-based paint finish that you used to see on pretty much everything (and still see on some things), and it is still in perfect shape. On the other hand, my powder coated Asahi Seiko coin doors on my Super Punch-Out arcade machine from 1984 have little specks of rust all over them that you can see if you look closely, as well as some flaked/chipped off areas around tight bends.
> 
> Floor paint has to stand up to people walking on and driving over it (with e.g., forklifts). This is the stuff you'll see in factories on the cement floors when lines or numbers or whatever need to be painted there. Speaking of factories, all the machinery I used in the two shoe factories I worked at when I was younger were painted with industrial oil-based paint; and most of it was about 50 years old.


So that must be why almost all farming equipment has to be repainted? because the paint is so BA... 



MaximRecoil said:


> Thanks for the attempted (yet failed) crystal ball reading, but I hope you're not expecting any payment for it.


If its not obvious that all you want to do is argue with folks i don't know what is. Your smart *** comments lack substance, you sound about 16. 

I love it when someone asks for advice then knows everything already. I'm sure nobody on this board knows **** anyways boss.


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## guero71 (Feb 27, 2010)

This is a crazy thread. I have heard some very sound advice...but MaximRecoil, it sounds like you have already made up your mind. I bet this whole idea to print your own shirts came from you thinking the price of cool shirts costs too much. So, now that you want to save money and print your own, you are upset with the price of the press. Now you are looking for someone to build you one. What's next? Are you going to be upset with the cost of aluminum and decide to mine your own? Good luck!

By the way, the 4-color 1-station silver press does not cost $800.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Yeah, Maxim has it all figured out. 

BTW, when I started screenprinting in the 80's, we made all our equipment out of 2x4s using handsaws and hatchets with parts from a regular hardware store and were able to print 3 colors with butt registration using hand cut stencils on home made frames, just by eye. My point is Maxim, you are way over thinking this. Go get a part-time job with one of the screenprinters in your area and get an idea of what is involved and how the process works. Then keep an eye out for a used rotary press on craigslist. A press isn't necessary for single color work.


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

evasivenotraKcs said:


> So i guess if someone made a wheel that wasn't round but square and it held up that it'd not be ghetto... okay.


There is no such thing as a square wheel. A square is not a wheel by definition. On the other hand, there is no standardized design of a "launch ramp". If it is a ramp and it can be used to "launch", then it is a "launch ramp". Your personal preference for one that has a curved ramp = irrelevant. 



> So that must be why almost all farming equipment has to be repainted? because the paint is so BA...


That's like saying, _"So that must be why almost all cars have to be repainted?"_ (car bodies are also painted, not powder coated). First, it is a loaded question, in that it assumes that "almost all farming equipment has to be repainted". Whether something needs repainting or not depends on various factors; primarily what sort of conditions it has been subjected to. Nothing is indestructible. 



> If its not obvious that all you want to do is argue with folks i don't know what is.


You are being argumentative. I'm simple accomodating you. Scroll back and read your posts.



> Your smart *** comments lack substance, you sound about 16.


This is coming from the person who typed:



> *bro*_,_
> _i didnt say anything about the solidness of the *retarded* flat "kicker ramp"_
> 
> _Emphasis mine_





> I love it when someone asks for advice then knows everything already. I'm sure nobody on this board knows **** anyways boss.


Questions #1 and #2 from my OP have been answered. So this thread has been mainly about #3. The best suggestion IMO was screwing Jiffy clamps to a table. Then I found a device which expands on that idea; i.e., in addition to the Jiffy clamps, it has an extremely solid and stable frame with a laminated platen mounted to it (which makes it more convenient to use compared to just Jiffy clamps screwed to a table), and it doesn't cost much. I like it, but for some reason, a couple of folks here are taking issue with me liking it (lol).


guero71 said:


> This is a crazy thread. I have heard some very sound advice...but MaximRecoil, it sounds like you have already made up your mind. I bet this whole idea to print your own shirts came from you thinking the price of cool shirts costs too much.


No, I've always been intrigued with the idea of printing (and not just shirts), ever since I was a kid. I'm not concerned about the price of pre-printed shirts (I rarely even come across any that I'm interested in, nor do I go out of my way to look for them). I like sitting down in Illustrator and creating something. But then when I'm done, the fun is over. I want to print. That gives me a more substantial/tangible result than 1s and 0s sitting on a hard drive.


> By the way, the 4-color 1-station silver press does not cost $800.


I'll repeat what I said:

"_So a 4 color 1 station Silver Press *with micro-adjust on all 4 colors* would cost $800._"

The press is $400, the micro-adjust is $100 per color; thus, $800.


wormil said:


> Then keep an eye out for a used rotary press on craigslist.


I don't want a rotary press. In order to get _perfect_ registration with one, there would have to be _zero_ play extending from the stop mechanism, through to the screen clamp, and through the screen itself. That's a very difficult thing to accomplish (unless perhaps if you spend $5000 or so). I know that even high end presses are not generally capable of perfect registration (_tight_ registration, yes), which is why I have to put traps and bleeds in artwork before sending it off to the screen printer. 

The marquee in my SPO machine has 2 point traps and bleeds on every color, and the printer still messed the registration up in several spots. Because of the way the marquee had to be printed (reverse printed onto clear plexi), and because of the specific design of the artwork, it created a situation where registration had to be perfect on the red and black (because the red and black intersected in various areas, and in combination they defined the outer shape of the silver), and there was no way to use traps and bleeds to help that specific situation. So did the printer — obviously a big time printer with expensive equipment, given that Nintendo of Japan was the customer and the production run was large — manage perfect registration for red and black? Not at all. 

In any event, the method of registering the screen to the platen with little "micros" that screw onto the screen frame can give _perfect_ registration. It is clear by looking at it that it can, plus the YouTees setup uses that method (he claims to have invented it; I have no way of knowing if that is true or not, but it is certainly a clever idea), and he has demonstrated perfect registration capability with it on video (printing a circle within a different color circle; inner circle's outer edge precisely contacting outer circle's inner edge; no traps or bleeds).

So for example; with perfect registration capability, I could print something like this:










And then this:










And get this:










Instead of this:










Without worring about adding traps and bleeds to anything.


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## RatedOG (Jan 26, 2010)

That was a fun read, nothing like a little forum drama to kill the last few hours of work on a Friday.
I got a 4 color 1 station silver press and didn't feel ripped off  and a welder friend of mine actually thought the press was very solid...


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## HermosaDan (Feb 20, 2010)

I purchased a press from Lee of youtees and have been using it for about months now. I am admittedly a total beginner and not printing for profit but for fun. What appealed to me was the low price and the ability to print several colors with perfect registration. If you take your time and are patient you can get registration extremely precise... and you can leave your screen registered to each other while you print other things. I know there has been a lot of spirited debate here over youtees and that it is not practical for pro volume printers... and I see that point and I don't claim to know or really care because I make a couple of shirts at a time in my bedroom. I just wanted to have fun and get started on a shoestring and I have been extremely satisfied with my purchase.

I know there is also another guy I came across on youtube who is in Riverside... I know his name is Bob but I can't remember his website... his last name was beginning with an M and sounded Italian... like Maritello but I don't think that's right. He also had a very nifty press, I think it was a two color rotary and seemed like a good value.

If you just want to do a few shirts and you are not looking to go into business like I was I would get the youtees.... I am not looking to start a youtees war... that is just my honest experience

Cheers, 
Dan 



MaximRecoil said:


> There is no such thing as a square wheel. A square is not a wheel by definition. On the other hand, there is no standardized design of a "launch ramp". If it is a ramp and it can be used to "launch", then it is a "launch ramp". Your personal preference for one that has a curved ramp = irrelevant.
> 
> That's like saying, _"So that must be why almost all cars have to be repainted?"_ (car bodies are also painted, not powder coated). First, it is a loaded question, in that it assumes that "almost all farming equipment has to be repainted". Whether something needs repainting or not depends on various factors; primarily what sort of conditions it has been subjected to. Nothing is indestructible.
> 
> ...


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## MaximRecoil (May 18, 2010)

HermosaDan said:


> I purchased a press from Lee of youtees and have been using it for about months now. I am admittedly a total beginner and not printing for profit but for fun. What appealed to me was the low price and the ability to print several colors with perfect registration. If you take your time and are patient you can get registration extremely precise... and you can leave your screen registered to each other while you print other things. I know there has been a lot of spirited debate here over youtees and that it is not practical for pro volume printers... and I see that point and I don't claim to know or really care because I make a couple of shirts at a time in my bedroom. I just wanted to have fun and get started on a shoestring and I have been extremely satisfied with my purchase.
> 
> I know there is also another guy I came across on youtube who is in Riverside... I know his name is Bob but I can't remember his website... his last name was beginning with an M and sounded Italian... like Maritello but I don't think that's right. He also had a very nifty press, I think it was a two color rotary and seemed like a good value.
> 
> ...


The YouTees setup is very clever, in a simple "Why didn't I think of that?" way. It is a system that is capable of _perfect_ registration (not just _tight_ registration), and because it is so simple, it is cheap, even when made by a smalltime guy rather than a big factory. 

As I said before, not even the huge, extremely expensive rotary machines intended for high volume production tend to be able to hold _perfect_ registration (thus the need for traps and bleeds in the artwork).

In any event, I bought the Knight MFG press; it arrived yesterday. When I ordered, he was out of stock but had some that were mostly complete and would be done in a day or two. But he also had one of this older ones that was actually built even heavier than his current ones (1.5" 11 gauge square steel tubing for the frame instead of 1"; in other words, you could park a dump truck on it, or mount it on the front of a truck as a push bumper). It also has a platen that can adjust forward or backwards which his current ones do not have. He said he would sell that one to me for the same price if I wanted it, and of course I did.

The welds are excellent and the fasteners are very high quality. I love the hinge clamps; even the hinges themselves are awesome; they are like the hinges on heavy steel doors in a school or something. I like the dampening effect of the greased bearings inside them, and the complete lack of side-to-side play. Commercial grade bearing hinges aren't cheap in and of themselves; check out the retail prices sometime. The HPL (Formica? Wilsonart?) on the platen is nice too; much better (and tougher) than melamine.

I went with this press over the YouTees setup mainly because it can work as a normal single color hinge clamp-based press, which is more convenient for single color work than messing with micros (not to mention that it is built like a tank), plus he makes YouTees-style "micros" and a rack for it, so I can do perfect registration on multiple colors the same as with the YouTees press, when I get to that stage.



huahua said:


> How to make the vector artwork and how much?


I'm not sure I understand your question (and I'm not even sure you are directing your question toward me); however, vector artwork can be made in various programs, such as Adobe Illustrator, CorelDraw, and Inkscape. I mainly use Adobe Illustrator. 

As to "how much", are you asking about the cost of vector drawing programs, or the cost of hiring someone to draw you something in a vector program? Vector programs range from free (e.g., Inkscape) to expensive (e.g., Adobe Illustrator), and I guess the same would apply to getting someone to draw you something.


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