# High Mesh Count using White Plastisol on Black Shirt



## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

All I've read is about the nightmares of getting an opaque white print on black using high mesh counts 230 - 305.

Has anyone actually been successful? Do you have any tips? I have a 230, 305, and a 355. I've got 2 films that are extremely detailed and targeted for the 305 mesh screen. They will be white on black. I didn't realize how hard it was to get opaque coverage on higher mesh counts until i actually tried it on a 230 screen. So how can I get this done. Discharge, Waterbased, Off contact, print, flash, print? I'm not going to make the image less intricate or put it on a different color, so I have no choice but to find a solution one way or another.


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

depending on the detail there's a couple of approaches. often for a bright white and minimal ink deposit for a softer hand feel you will want to use two screens, one for an under base and the other for a top white.
you could do a print flash print but i always find this leads to dot gain and looses the finer detail because of that (dots and thin lines get larger as well as small gaps filling in)

if you go this route you can do what i normally do, choke the under base by using level adjustments to drop out the fine detail and thin the lines slightly (bring the white point in by about halfway as an example). that film can go on a slightly lower mesh, say a 280 using slightly reduced ink. the top white would have all the finer detail and could go on a 305 using reduced white ink (not a white ink formulated for under basing, there is a big difference between them). flash between the two screen prints. the finer detail that falls off the underbase may come out as a light gray on the fabric but i personally find this looks much better for the final print then trying to get a bright white in those details (often because it ends up with way too much dot gain if you go for a bright white)

using properly tensioned screens and off contact with sharp hard squeegees will help allot with limiting dot gain.


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## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

red514 said:


> depending on the detail there's a couple of approaches. often for a bright white and minimal ink deposit for a softer hand feel you will want to use two screens, one for an under base and the other for a top white.
> you could do a print flash print but i always find this leads to dot gain and looses the finer detail because of that (dots and thin lines get larger as well as small gaps filling in)
> 
> if you go this route you can do what i normally do, choke the under base by using level adjustments to drop out the fine detail and thin the lines slightly (bring the white point in by about halfway as an example). that film can go on a slightly lower mesh, say a 280 using slightly reduced ink. the top white would have all the finer detail and could go on a 305 using reduced white ink (not a white ink formulated for under basing, there is a big difference between them). flash between the two screen prints. the finer detail that falls off the underbase may come out as a light gray on the fabric but i personally find this looks much better for the final print then trying to get a bright white in those details (often because it ends up with way too much dot gain if you go for a bright white)
> ...


that's not even something I had thought of doing. I appreciate the detailed feedback!


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Can you post a pic pf the image? 
Generally higher detail requires a higher mesh count but that's_ not_ a hard set rule. And it's not the only factor in achieving high detail opaque prints.
Don't be afraid to try even lower mesh counts. And print technique plays a crucial role also. Screen tension, stencil thickness, light source, off contact, squeegee hardness angle pressure and speed, type of ink and it's viscosity all come into play.


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## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

TYGERON said:


> Can you post a pic pf the image?
> Generally higher detail requires a higher mesh count but that's_ not_ a hard set rule. And it's not the only factor in achieving high detali opaque prints.
> Don't be afraid to try even lower mesh counts. And print technique plays a crucial role also. Screen tension, stencil thickness, light source, off contact, squeegee hardness angle pressure and speed, type of ink and it's viscosity all come into play.












Non-halftoned, web quality version of the artwork.


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

Ahhhh. Nice graphic. 
OK. You can get a pretty good image with just a white halftone. But If you really want to capture more tonal range, I think greyscale seps would work really well (white, various grey levels, and black).


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## TYGERON (Apr 26, 2009)

I was looking for a post from a while ago that showed each sep but I couldn't find it. 

This is the final composite print from a Black and White photo. White, Black and 3 Grays all on 156 mesh on a white shirt. Did it on Black too (and actually printed Black):


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## RespecttheCraft (Feb 19, 2010)

Everyone overlooks discharge! You can print water based ink through high mesh much easier than plastisol and you don't have to thin it. Discharge will give you whatever color you desire with out under bases or having to flash. I would definitely still use multiple shades of grey plus white though.


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## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

RespecttheCraft said:


> Everyone overlooks discharge! You can print water based ink through high mesh much easier than plastisol and you don't have to thin it. Discharge will give you whatever color you desire with out under bases or having to flash. I would definitely still use multiple shades of grey plus white though.


i'm open to any and all ideas. I appreciate your input.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Here is why a lot of people over look discharge. You need proper equipment. Have a dryer with ventilation or print in a well ventilated area with ventilator mask . Please if venturing into new processes make sure you are properly equipped to do the job safely.

Discharge can be nasty stuff.


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## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

One color, waterbased, 305 mesh. Needs some work. Also am going to try Plastisol as a comparison. First halftone i've ever done so just feeling my way through it.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Nice Job! Is that a single print, double print, or a print flash print. I ask cause it looks like some of the halftone areas either suffered from dot gain or just maybe they didn't hold on screen. Either way You should be proud of the out come and now know how to adjust it. Maybe add a .001 or .002 or even a .0001 stroke of white to combat the dot gain or change your profile depending on graphics program your using.


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## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

sben763 said:


> Nice Job! Is that a single print, double print, or a print flash print. I ask cause it looks like some of the halftone areas either suffered from dot gain or just maybe they didn't hold on screen. Either way You should be proud of the out come and now know how to adjust it. Maybe add a .001 or .002 or even a .0001 stroke of white to combat the dot gain or change your profile depending on graphics program your using.


We went over this print easily 5 times. Horrifyingly bad technique. Probably did 2 passes each time, heat gunned it in between and heat pressed it at the end. We knew it wasn't going to come out right, so we kept laying down passes just to see what it would look like after each set. Obviously it got brighter, but major dot gain flooded out a ton of detail. We were trying to get it brighter, but the original and the film aren't this stark white, so trying to add tonal characters that aren't there definitely is wrong. It may sound crazy but I felt like we learned more by intentionally screwing the print up because we could see the effects of bad technique and over printing. We used the last of the waterbased white so we never tried a 2nd one. No big deal.


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## hvchris (Nov 30, 2010)

we are going to try the same design on different meshs, experiment with exposure times, and try some other inks as well. Just trying to figure out what gives us the results we want. will probably end up adding some color to the design too.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Adding the small strokes is not adding a tonal character but a way combat dot gain which you will suffer from even with a single flood and stroke. But not sure how you are preparing for film printing 

You could ultimately run a 200 at 45 LPI or a 230 at 50 LPI but this will make the dots larger. You could also try to expose the same 55lpi on a 230 mesh and it is possible it just takes some careful washout but real easy to blow off the halftones. White discharge may be the best option but since your using a heat gun you would need to print in a ventilated area with a respirator with the proper cartridges. Plastisol will produce a brighter print and then there is plasticharge a plastisol discharge and the same precautions must be taken. You also have to make sure your shirt can be discharged.


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