# Color issues with sublimation- Cobra inks- black is turning brown



## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

Is anyone using Cobra High Temp inks and having an issue with the black coming out brown? Here's my setup:

Mac w/Snow Leopard
Illustrator CS4
Epson WF 1100 w/Cobra high temp refillable cartridges
ICC profile for Mac from Cobra
Coastal Mug Wrap
Coastal Mugs

I have done 3 mugs in an oven using coastal's recommended 400 degrees for 14 minutes. I've tried different settings and cannot get my black to look black. All other colors look pretty good. I've also done a license plate frame in my press and got the same result, leading me to believe it's not my oven settings but an issue with the color settings. I used Cobra's ICC profile and turned off the color management on the printer. I'm using RGB as well. 

If it's the ICC profile, what can I do to make it work? I've talked to Richard at Cobra and he said he hasn't had this problem.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

It looks like you also have "banding" as well or is that part of the design? It also looks like you are using a fountain effect to go from black to gray. If that is the case you may have to manually set the fountain effect so you get true black at the bottom or else the fountain will instantly start moving away from black especially in that small of an area thus you will not really get any true black.


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

Yes, there is banding as well. It's supposed to be solid black background, there's no fade to gray if that's what you mean. Maybe it just turned out a little darker on the bottom. Any ideas?


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

Black is the last color to sublimate and so I'm guessing you need more time. I don't use wraps, but I seem to remember the time being closer to 20 minutes. It takes some testing and materials to dial in your equipment, ink, and paper. I would make up some more with increasing the time by a minute until you get the results you wish.

Also, on these panel mugs, I would not use a black background as it is probably never going to match the black of the mug itself and always look off.

Doug


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

If it is more time that is needed, do you think that applies to the license plate frames as well? I did them at 400 for 40 seconds in the press as instructed by Coastal. I just hope to narrow it down to either a problem with the colors on the computer or something with my process.


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

You need to remember that all of the times and temps that you will get from the distributors such as Coastal, Conde, etc will be based on Sawgrass inks....not some imported, bootlegged ink from China.


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

In the driver, do you have it set to "no color adjustment"?


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## LEO (Oct 10, 2006)

The time on the license plate frames is 60-70 secs ( 400*) with *transfer face down*
and
TWI*CE that + *if you have the *transfer face up*.( license plate facing down on top of paper).
I just finished 18 of them all with black backgrounds and actually used 180 secs as I used a green heat convecting pad on top of transfer- to even out the heat but mostly to hold the license plate down firmly when the press gets opened.- avoid ghosting. I find the adhesive sprays leave spots no matter how carefully you apply.

LEO


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

I do have the printer color management off. I tried pressing the plate frames for more time, it is better but still a dark purple color, not black.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

Have you tried their color profiles?


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

Whose do you mean? I'm currently using the one built by Cobra for mac.


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## plan b (Feb 21, 2007)

ninja4life said:


> Whose do you mean? I'm currently using the one built by Cobra for mac.


Cobra has them on their site,, if you are using them already then maybe you need to give Cobra a call,, it maybe a problem with the ink


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## FLPrint (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm curious ninja if you've been able to resolve the black ink and banding issue with the WF 1100 and Cobra ink combo?


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

Nope, not yet. I haven't messed with it in a few days but I still don't know what's wrong with the black ink- other colors look fine. I might print something out and send to Cobra to see how it turns out when he transfers it.


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## revtommy (Dec 19, 2006)

The 1100 Mac driver is different than the Windows driver. I never could get it right on my Mac, but had pretty decent success on my PC.


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## mountaingraphic (Sep 6, 2009)

I am using the 1100 cobra setup as well and have an issue with black turning purple lol Not sure what the deal is but it almost looks like your temp/time is off for it to turn brown..Almost looks burnt. I have done mugs with wraps and they turn out fine in the oven at 425 for 14 min. However I just cant get the purple thing figured out. Tried diff transfer paper and still the same. Tried different profiles and its not as bad but it throws the rest of the colors off lol I dunno but it is aggravating watching money go down the drain on a bad transfer


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Does it occur with flat stuff like Unisub?


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

I tried license plate frames in my press and had the same problem. I also recently did a mug where the main color was supposed to be royal blue and it came out very deep purple. Looks nice but was not the intended color!


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

It sounds like a profile issue. Maybe yellow is
too strong. I wonder where they get the ink?


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## mountaingraphic (Sep 6, 2009)

Not sure on cobra's ink but I do think it is a slight profile issue but I have no clue or even had a moment to tweak my current settings to figure it out...I have a 1900 coming in and gonna get started on a t-dozer DTG for it lol


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## thelogoshop (Aug 10, 2008)

I have been using cobra ink for a year now and love it. I have had a problem recently with the colors not comingout bright and I do recall the black being the worst. It ended up being the paper. I happened to have 2 types of paper (I couldnt tell you what) but neither was from cobra, and 1 was from conde. Whe I put in the conde paper everything came out great. I will never change from conde for paper and will continue to use cobra inks. Jusy about everything for sublimation comes from china so why is the post above complaining because we save a little money on the ink? Cobra inks are great and everything else I would get from Conde.


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## mountaingraphic (Sep 6, 2009)

thelogoshop said:


> I have been using cobra ink for a year now and love it. I have had a problem recently with the colors not comingout bright and I do recall the black being the worst. It ended up being the paper. I happened to have 2 types of paper (I couldnt tell you what) but neither was from cobra, and 1 was from conde. Whe I put in the conde paper everything came out great. I will never change from conde for paper and will continue to use cobra inks. Jusy about everything for sublimation comes from china so why is the post above complaining because we save a little money on the ink? Cobra inks are great and everything else I would get from Conde.


Not sure if that post was meant toward me or not but Cobra Inks are all I use in my 4 printers and soon to be 5. Very pro Richard and his team just meant not sure where they get their ink or the formulation of it.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

thelogoshop said:


> Jusy about everything for sublimation comes from china so why is the post above complaining because we save a little money on the ink? Cobra inks are great and everything else I would get from Conde.


Sawgrass owns a patent that keeps sub ink from being competed in legally and keeps the price up there for those that choose to go the "legal" route. You can do a search for Sawgrass lawsuits and find were they have sued several companies into closing there doors or getting out of the sub ink business. Heres a link to one such suit

Sawgrass Sues Tropical Graphics and EIC Research | The Big Picture | bigpicture.net

The patent isn't for the ink so much but the delivery of it thru the piezo heads. (If I recall all the tech stuff right).

So there could come a day when you wake up and find you can no longer get it or Cobra has been sued into bankruptcy and had to shut his doors. 

Mark


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## thelogoshop (Aug 10, 2008)

You can order the ink direct from China also. I do not know the compnay. Someone I know just ordered some and is waiting for it to come in. I cant say how it will compare but we will see how it works for him. AI do feel that we should have options on what and where we buy from. Look at DTG inks, there are several supplier for that, some are better than others and it is/ should be our decision on what we purchase. Just my opinion and do not wish to cause any ill feelilngs. 

My favorite suppliers are conde, cobra, and atlas screen supply. I hope that I can continue to do business with them for many years to come. We are all really just trying to make it in our field, if we are a small business or a big company, we all should have the same chance. Where would most of us be if the "big guys" kept up with lawsuits and such? Would any of us still be here? If we keep having to raise our price, what options will our customers have? What will this do for our econamy? I really dont want feed back, just think about it. Variety is also good.


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## jdoug5170 (Sep 8, 2010)

I find it interesting that the folks buying the "cheap" ink, the ones that fight often with colors due to no correct ICC, no real support from the vendor are not charging less for the items they sell. Where is passing the savings on to the public? Or is it, just as I think... we are all greedy and if we save a dime, it belongs in our pocket!

I keep hearing how great this Cobra "high temp" ink is compared to the "expensive" ink from Sawgrass.... I tried it and not only was not able to get anything close to acceptable results, but when I called Cobra...I got no help. They have not a clue as to what the ink does....just how to load the hardware side of it. I for one will keep on with my high priced Ricoh ink from Sawgrass...I'm making good money with it and few headaches.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

jdoug5170 said:


> Or is it, just as I think... we are all greedy and if we save a dime, it belongs in our pocket! I for one will keep on with my high priced Ricoh ink from Sawgrass...I'm making good money with it and few headaches.


Can you think of a single company that defines and exemplifies greed more clearly than Sawgrass? 

Personally I prefer to spend my money with vendors who compete in the open market by offering high quality products and great customer service at a fair price.


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## freebird1963 (Jan 21, 2007)

On-line Jerseys said:


> Can you think of a single company that defines and exemplifies greed more clearly than Sawgrass?
> 
> Personally I prefer to spend my money with vendors who compete in the open market by offering high quality products and great customer service at a fair price.


Can think of dozens of companies. Bet your sitting at a computer running software of one company that is regarded as one of the most greediest and vilest in their dealings. You don't ***** about them tho.

Or the oil companies and the brokers that are keeping the gas up there at 3.50+ a gal.

Or the pharm companies. One company just got the OK to make a premature birth drug and cost is going from 10.00 to 1500.00 a treatment. And its a LIFE AND DEATH ISSUE.

Get over it man. Same rhetric over and over. Sounding like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

And fair pricing and quality died as partnership decades ago.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mountaingraphic said:


> I am using the 1100 cobra setup as well and have an issue with black turning purple lol Not sure what the deal is but it almost looks like your temp/time is off for it to turn brown..Almost looks burnt. I have done mugs with wraps and they turn out fine in the oven at 425 for 14 min. However I just cant get the purple thing figured out. Tried diff transfer paper and still the same. Tried different profiles and its not as bad but it throws the rest of the colors off lol I dunno but it is aggravating watching money go down the drain on a bad transfer


See the thread I started ...

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t146487.html#post870545

Also, some sublimation inks "blacK" is more like "eggplant black". You may not ever get a pure black with specific sublimation inks, this includes Artanium inks as well.

As another has pointed out, your dwell and temp can effect colors as well.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

jdoug5170 said:


> I find it interesting that the folks buying the "cheap" ink, the ones that fight often with colors due to no correct ICC, no real support from the vendor are not charging less for the items they sell. Where is passing the savings on to the public? Or is it, just as I think... we are all greedy and if we save a dime, it belongs in our pocket!
> 
> I keep hearing how great this Cobra "high temp" ink is compared to the "expensive" ink from Sawgrass.... I tried it and not only was not able to get anything close to acceptable results, but when I called Cobra...I got no help. They have not a clue as to what the ink does....just how to load the hardware side of it. I for one will keep on with my high priced Ricoh ink from Sawgrass...I'm making good money with it and few headaches.


I don't use the Cobra inks for sublimation, but disagree on your mention of Cobra not having a clue.

I have a large stock of customer files so I don't want to change my inks yet ... it would require me to redo a lot of files.

Cobra does have a clue, I have bought other stuff from them and have spoken with Richard personally on technical topics. He is very competent with hardware, heat transfer and color management. 

Perhaps they are on a bit of a "slippery slope" but they are leaving it up to the user to infridge on the SG patent. They sell inks for paper printing, it's up to you as to _how_ you use it.

For these inks you need to understand color management and heat transfer. They (Cobra) understand _how to_, it's just they are trying to walk a fine line here.

These inks are for those that already know _how to,_ or where to find out elsewhere _how to._


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

freebird1963 said:


> Can think of dozens of companies. Bet your sitting at a computer running software of one company that is regarded as one of the most greediest and vilest in their dealings. You don't ***** about them tho.
> 
> Or the oil companies and the brokers that are keeping the gas up there at 3.50+ a gal.
> 
> ...


Your one angry little man - but you amuse me so that in itself is worth getting your indies in a wad. Fair pricing and quality may have died in your business model but it is the cornerstone of almost every successful small business including mine. We deal with incredible vendors everyday that have incredible quality, fair prices, and awesome customer service. By the way - many would find your comments racist but I think you already know that.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I work with Cobra high temp inks, and my blacks are black, 

If you have banding on your images,, you have a heads that need to be cleaned,, run a cleaning on your machine if that does not work, please call Richard at Cobra,, 

Anytime i have needed a answer it has come to me very fast by email or phone call.

The first pictures is a coaster and the last 2 are textured cutting boards,, sorry for the glare,,


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

sjidohair said:


> I work with Cobra high temp inks, and my blacks are black,
> 
> If you have banding on your images,, you have a heads that need to be cleaned,, run a cleaning on your machine if that does not work, please call Richard at Cobra,,
> 
> ...


If you have ever used Artanium inks before can you describe how the Cobra inks (using the profile) compare to Artanium in terms of color accuracy?

thx


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I have only worked with high temp cobra,, 
sorry,


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

sjidohair said:


> I have only worked with high temp cobra,,
> sorry,


Thx. I have a ton of Artanium sub ink but plan to convert to Cobra sometime this year.


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I also use all my blanks from conde and love the videos they offer on eductation, 

I use the mpres paper from enmart,,,

MMM


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

Is cobra a true sub ink?


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## sjidohair (Apr 9, 2008)

I have no idea, but it works great on hard objects, for me,, 
I am still learning as i go,, 

I do not mess with the color profiles at all, but print from photo shop or Xara,, as it adjusts the colors for me.

I hope someone else has the answer to your question.
MMM


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## aerosoulz (Sep 19, 2008)

Just curious, but does substrate make a difference? I see that you posted up some of the 'patch mugs' that you've printed - I myself have had difficulty getting a good, even black on these types of mug. Perhaps trying a Unisub coaster may prove or disprove the point?

(I am assuming of course, that your profiles are correctly set up, and that there are no issues with print heads, paper type, etc).

Hope this helps.


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## ninja4life (Jul 8, 2009)

I've fixed the banding issue with a few head cleanings. 

Sandy- do you use the cobra profile? and do you have a mac or pc? if you just use a photoshop profile, which one is it? what times and temps do you use for different items? thanks for the help.

aerosoulz- I've tried a license plate frame in my press as well and it's still the same problem, not black, more of a brownish purple. 

I have a few lighters and clipboards to try but I'd rather not print on that stuff until I have it right.


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## cryman (Mar 19, 2007)

ninja4life said:


> I've fixed the banding issue with a few head cleanings.
> 
> Sandy- do you use the cobra profile? and do you have a mac or pc? if you just use a photoshop profile, which one is it? what times and temps do you use for different items? thanks for the help.
> 
> ...


ok so you want Black to come out as Black as the Ace of Spade?
try this if you are using photoshop when you come to the print with view next color management on next same as source next its the printer bit printer color magement off
then print ..........you'll see an difference without any profile needed for the black


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Also make sure you are using RGB not CMYK colors.


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## GinnyD (Apr 13, 2011)

I remember having this problem with the inks from Sawgrass a few years ago. As it turned out, it was the ink. (bad batch) Was able to receive replacement bottle. Also check expiry date of your ink.


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## cryman (Mar 19, 2007)

the problem with icc profiles for sublimation ink can be bane on one's life really very seldom give you free trouble than they are worth having done even your own custom ones you have paid to get done!
i have once got 4 mugs done with color target put onto mugs for custom profile to be done end results? not any better than any other profiles that i've used before the big problem is always the black is not black as it should be to ones eyes take my word for it, best way is fiddle around for example if using photoshop the setting printing onto photographic paper cuz its the nearest to mug surface if you see what i mean mind watch you valuable sub ink
if anyone as no trouble with their colors at all! could ya mention
your setting in photoshop 7 if you do use version 7 for all people that has trouble with colors in sub-ink please post here from start to finish you setting plus printer setting as sinple as possible
it might solve some one here's problem if so i think we have really helped our friend here on the setting them on to the right track to successful sub-printing world please add to the post if you can or indeed have the time thanks


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## elhines33 (Jan 28, 2011)

I work in Photoshop and use SubliJet IQ ink in an Epson 4800 and haven't had any trouble with the black (unless I press too long, then it starts turning brown and burnt looking). However, I have had trouble with images coming out too red...
Not sure how this is going to help anyone, but felt the need to chime in


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## cryman (Mar 19, 2007)

here's an icc profile i made for sublimation printing you can download it from here Hotfile.com: One click file hosting: Mug color.icm

needless to say i shouldn't have to explain to you how to install the profile.....cuz really i don't have the time to write it down here,
well anyway have an bash at my profile mind its for RGB printers only
good luck


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## mrshill (Sep 25, 2008)

Hello everyone, I am having a problem with my wf 1100 and the cobra ink system high def ink for dye sublimation. my black is black but the pinks are grey, brown etc. I am sure it is not the paper as I get that from conde but i have done a few samples changing the icc profile that richard has on his site and everytime I get a different color. So my thought is it is with the icc profile. I am out of options to try. I have a ricoh 3300 that I got from conde and have not had a ounce of trouble. If there is someone out there that can offer other helpful advice I would greatly appreciate it. Also richard works with adobe not corel so he does not have much info to provide for someone using corel.
Carolyn


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## Conde_David (May 29, 2008)

Has Cobra tried to help?


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## mrshill (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi david, they do try and help. But they are just not there yet. As a small business i just cannot afford for things not to work. I am not sure what is going on but I just need this to work. I have shows coming up and orders I need to fill. A suprise every now and then is understandable but this is really frustrating. I hoping someone can come along and give some advice soon or else i will have to find yet another way to handle this.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mrshill said:


> Hi david, they do try and help. But they are just not there yet. As a small business i just cannot afford for things not to work. I am not sure what is going on but I just need this to work. I have shows coming up and orders I need to fill. A suprise every now and then is understandable but this is really frustrating. I hoping someone can come along and give some advice soon or else i will have to find yet another way to handle this.


Which version(s) of Corel Draw do you have, I don't use that ink, but I know how to setup sublimation profiles in CD.


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## Dragonfly Mary (Jan 1, 2015)

I am having the same problem but I have an Epson WF 3620 that prints perfectly every other time except for printing on sublimation paper, the ink prints out black as a purple or brown colour, could it be the ink I am using and can some one please tell me the best brand of sub ink to use


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