# Need to outsource large sublimation order..but to who??



## kbupp (Aug 11, 2010)

I've got some clients who have requested some fairly large fully sublimated shirt orders which we cannot handle in house. I've never outsourced our work to China but I'm very open to building relationships with a few reputable overseas manufacturers.

Please let me know if you have any recommendations who can help us. We currently need to quote a 200 piece shirt order and also a 15,000 piece shirt order...each fully sublimated.

Thanks,

Kevin


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## renderpromo (Dec 1, 2011)

Kevin, 

I can recommend a few places we use if you like. Let me know if we can help.

Matt
CEO
Render
Apparel & Promotional
matt[USER=106286]@Ren[/USER]derapparel.com


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## Jason's_Place (Nov 1, 2009)

Keep it in the States!


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

conde does them


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

kbupp said:


> I've got some clients who have requested some fairly large fully sublimated shirt orders which we cannot handle in house. I've never outsourced our work to China but I'm very open to building relationships with a few reputable overseas manufacturers.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any recommendations who can help us. We currently need to quote a 200 piece shirt order and also a 15,000 piece shirt order...each fully sublimated.
> 
> ...


That 15K piece order buys you a jumbo press and 42 inch printer, and a nice car, why not just do them yourself?


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/referrals-recommendations/

Place a request here and people can give you their information. I agree keep it in the States

Also, check printer listings Dye Sublimation - Find T-Shirt Printers - custom t-shirt printers reviewed at PrinterListings.com

You can PM TSF member Riderz Ready, I know he does sublimation 

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/members/riderz-ready.html

RiderzReady.com | Theme Dev Site


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## kbupp (Aug 11, 2010)

I've had some bad experiences with Conde and their sublimation department in the past and don't really want to venture down that road again.


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## kbupp (Aug 11, 2010)

I actually have a 30x40 GK press and a epson 9700 but it's still not worth my time to do orders of this size in house.


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

The idea of keeping it in the states is a great idea until someone else undercuts you by 40% and you can not make the sale....


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Of course we would all like to keep as much in the states as possible but the person who really determines where the jerseys are made is the person asking for the quote not kbupp. 

If the person requesting the quote does not specify "Made In The USA" this will in fact be done overseas whether it be kbupp or someone else. 

As an FYI - production on 15,000 units would be virtually impossible for most of us smaller shops. A single press/printer may get you 50 jerseys/shirts a day. Typically a good seamstress can do about 5 units an hour. It would take you a year to complete the project.

If you do go overseas for the 15,000 units you really need to be careful. The number one thing people forget to consider in this market is colors. If you provide any artwork, whether it be in the USA or espcially overseas, and they print using your color values you could be in for a very large surprise. If you are careful, request samples and color charts you should be ok.

Good luck!


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

kbupp said:


> I've had some bad experiences with Conde and their sublimation department in the past and don't really want to venture down that road again.


Is this cut and sew or full dye sub on premade shirts? If it is dye sub on premade shirts I would given Jackson a call at Vapor Apparel. They do huge numbers in their fullfillment business and top quality.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

kbupp said:


> I actually have a 30x40 GK press and a epson 9700 but it's still not worth my time to do orders of this size in house.


If you are looking for premade garments to be pressed onto, and not printed then assembled, and if your printer is your bottleneck, then other companies printers would be bottlenecks as well unless they had a lot of printers running concurrently.

But this may solve that problem if it is really your print throughput and if you could handle or scale your actual heat transfering.

Dye Sublimation, Sublimation Transfers | Winston Salem, NC

Others are around that offer this. I don't know prices, but would seem to have to be better or competitive to high volume inkjet sublimation prices.


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## dazzabling (Sep 21, 2011)

Riderz Ready said:


> As an FYI - production on 15,000 units would be virtually impossible for most of us smaller shops. A single press/printer may get you 50 jerseys/shirts a day. Typically a good seamstress can do about 5 units an hour. It would take you a year to complete the project.


I wasn't sure your production capacities, but thanks for the information. 

You said Vapor Apparel does this type of production??


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

dazzabling said:


> I wasn't sure your production capacities, but thanks for the information.
> 
> You said Vapor Apparel does this type of production??


Personally I do not know any dye sub cut and sew company in the states that could handle 15K units in a 30-45 day window. There may be one out there but not sure who it would. I would guess the average cut and sew shop in the states does between 200 - 2000 units per month. The issue is not only would a shop have to have the ability to create 15K units but they would have to have t be able to do their regular business plus another 15K units. Dye sublimation does not lend itself to be competitive in large production numbers. 

Vapor does not do cut and sew inhouse - they do have a fullfillment division in house in which they crank out big numbers pressing on premade shirts.


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## fiveomrkting (Jan 18, 2011)

Hi Kevin,

A friend of mine advised me that you are looking to produce a large run of dye sub shirts. We are located in Tampa, FL. I can help you with your order. Please call me on my cell, I am leaving the office for the weekend. 813-323-1355

Damien
Kracken Kool Gear


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

kbupp said:


> I actually have a 30x40 GK press and a epson 9700 but it's still not worth my time to do orders of this size in house.


I would say _inkjet_ sublimation does not lend itself well for large production numbers. But once you have the transfer it's a pressing operation.

Offset sublimation and laser sublimation are much much faster printing processes. 

I do Laser sub limited to 8 /12 x 14 but I can print 960 pages per hour. Of course I can't press that many an hour.

My toner costs are competitive with large format inkjet sublimation, and laser sublimation in general for the most part is limited to tabloid and cheap for toner costs, but offset presses are larger and fast. 

Your print size requirement is likely too large of print size, so I'm not suggesting laser, just a reference as to the speed capability of other sublimation processes.

As others have mentioned unless someone has a whole army of inkjet printers on their production floor it hard to get those done on inkjet, so I think realistically you have to look at other technologies if you have to have sublimation in those volumes.

Back in the early 90's "stock" offset printed sublimation tshirt transfers were popular and several of the companies that sold plastisol transfers were also offering sublimation versions. 

Those were printed in the thousands using "house" art and then offered to tshirt decorators by the dozens. They were cheaper than the plastisol "stock" versions, but of course could not be used on darks. I bought a lot of those and used on white and light color shirts back then.

These are not US prices but using higher volume processes ...

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/101295028/Sublimation_Heat_Transfer_Printing_Paper_Customized.html


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## cprvh (Jan 23, 2006)

For high volume orders offset printed transfers will be much more economical. You might try AvidInk.


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## JaeAmera (Dec 25, 2006)

mgparrish said:


> That 15K piece order buys you a jumbo press and 42 inch printer, and a nice car, why not just do them yourself?


Bottomline: 15K is ton of work and we personally wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It's easy to look from the outside in and say what a jobs profit would be without actually understanding the work involved. (Not saying you don't know Mike...just stating that for any novice readers who may see dollars signs when presented with a job of this size)

We have 4) large format printers and a Large Format Press (Shuttle) and the work involved to do 250 is an undertaking not to mention time consuming.

Anyone who thinks full-coverage apparel (cut and sew or pre-made garments) is the same labor as say, screen print, is sadly mistaken. To me, that is the only reason, people would ask for quotes of this magnitude...they don't understand the labor involved and they have lumped all imaging processes into one colorful bowl.

We know right off when someone isn't knowledgeable about full-coverage dye sub....they ask for a quote for thousands of shirts with a 30 day turnaround.

Once you get to 1000-1500, it's my opinion, that those who pay with sacks of rice or cornmeal will be the only ones who can really make a profit. 

We have made more profit on (10)Ten 50 shirt orders than most people who lock their shops down with a huge 1000+ order.

I'm simply posting for any noob to understand that "all orders that glitter....may not be golden" Know how deep the water is before you jump in! 

Hope this helps,
Jae


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

JaeAmera said:


> Bottomline: 15K is ton of work and we personally wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It's easy to look from the outside in and say what a jobs profit would be without actually understanding the work involved. (Not saying you don't know Mike...just stating that for any novice readers who may see dollars signs when presented with a job of this size)
> 
> We have 4) large format printers and a Large Format Press (Shuttle) and the work involved to do 250 is an undertaking not to mention time consuming.
> 
> ...


Yes, I understand, that is why the thread further on the discusion tilted more toward getting the transfers made using a different process. Comes down to how many can be pressed front side and back per hour and how many days it will take, and knowing "Cheaper by the dozen" can only go so far in further price reduction, so the quote has to reflect that. The question becomes how to scale your operation and equipment short term without diluting existing business.

I'm sure many screen printers run across this situation more than heat transfer imprinters do, and the orders are still fullfilled in the states. Has to be a minimum markup in the final price no matter what the volume, doesn't matter if you make donuts all day or if you print shirts. Most business expand their operation open hours to accept unexpected but additional short term business so that the additional business adds to their profits without interfering with existing profit.

So I understand your points, but I see this as "happy agony" though.


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## selanac (Jan 8, 2007)

Athletic-Uniforms.com

They do Cut and Sew Sublimation in house. NC


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## royster13 (Aug 14, 2007)

Some of these suggestions are probably way off because no one has any idea of budget and/or design.....At 15,000 pieces the fabric will likely be printed by a more conventional fabric printing method.....Then the garment will be cut and sewn....In a big factory there will probably be less than 20 minutes of cut and sew time in a shirt...


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

royster13 said:


> Some of these suggestions are probably way off because no one has any idea of budget and/or design.....At 15,000 pieces the fabric will likely be printed by a more conventional fabric printing method.....Then the garment will be cut and sewn....In a big factory there will probably be less than 20 minutes of cut and sew time in a shirt...


Yes, the OP mentioned sublimation but I would assume the question of material requirement was asked of the customer ... but maybe not ???


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## promoda20 (Dec 7, 2011)

We are a manufacturer of t-shirt and digital textile printing.
I can supply to you any kind of basic T-shirt printed sublimation.
PROMODATEX-Turkey
Phone:+90 258 286 57 34


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