# Everybodys Got a Problem but Where is the solution



## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

I am starting a clothing company. It's in a working stage meaning I've sold approximately 1000 shirts retail.









I am working on our new designs but am having a problem getting them printed. One of the main reasons is that I dont want to do large quantities to start only 36 shirts per design to start out with. I want them to be colorful and oversized like the graphics show(these are a couple of the actual shirts). Suggestions would help and if there are any takers in the Tampa Bay, Florida area that would be good also. I plan on getting major distribution nationally. Yes I am looking for a printer.. I know these are over sized and a pain in the *** but I need someone who can do them inhouse without charging me a bunch.... because my next order of each design will be a much higher quantity.

Thank You,

Rusty Rich


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

What kind of prices are you looking for?
That will give screenprinters here a better idea of what you can afford & whether they will think it's reasonable for them to do the job.


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## lburton3 (Aug 14, 2008)

wait, you've already sold 1,000 shirts retail and you don't have a printer or know anything about the biz, and you only have these mockups to show for it?

something isn't adding up here..


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

lburton3 said:


> wait, you've already sold 1,000 shirts retail and you don't have a printer or know anything about the biz, and you only have these mockups to show for it?
> 
> something isn't adding up here..



Im trying to get better service. The printer I used was 40mm in Clearwater they cant print oversized and I sell the shirts through the bmx circuit.. I get booths and I sell them online. Rich Clothing .. Theres your add up *****... now is ther anyone who can help. Im looking for pricing withouth the the "This isnt a huge order" tax


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

Rusty, The machine to print this size is very costly and most printers don't have them. Set up is also expensive. 36 shirts would cost you about the same as 144 if you can get someone to do that small of an order. Many people on here want the same thing, but printers can't pay there bills on your vision.
I wish you luck.
John


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

product247 said:


> Im looking for pricing withouth the the "This isnt a huge order" tax



It's not a tax... screenprinters are looking fair value for their hard work to stay in business... unless they're doing you a personal favor or you offer something else of value to them in return, they must have professional rates that applies to all their customers.

As long as it's fair compensation for the quality of work they do, you'll eventually find someone to print your order.


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

Okay Im really just trying to reassure myself that starting my own screen printing business would be wrong but its sounding more like what I have to do.


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

Unless you have about $100,000 dollars to invest and that's just equipment not ink or learning how to print, you might reconsider.
John


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

product247 said:


> Okay Im really just trying to reassure myself that starting my own screen printing business would be wrong but its sounding more like what I have to do.



If you're willing to put the time & money into starting a screenprinting business, that would be a good long-term investment.

You'll need to learn alot as well as buying the silkscreen press / dryer / exposure unit / supplies / film printer / software / to print what you currently want to do all by yourself.

So far, my screenprinting equipment & supplies cost me $12,000, but I'd need to order more equip/supplies if I were to print your order. 

My equipment is new, so you should look for used equipment to save money.


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

tshirtsep said:


> If you're willing to put the time & money into starting a screenprinting business, that would be a good long-term investment.
> 
> You'll need to learn alot as well as buying the silkscreen press / dryer / exposure unit / supplies / film printer / software / to print what you currently want to do all by yourself.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info.. I have looked into the equipment etc.. I know there is some money involved and also some experience required to problem solve a press but I think I will def buy used and start small to facilitate my own orders.. I have a lot of artist friends who need this work so I think I can start making my money back quick.. Instead of refering them elsewhere.. Obviously my city needs a more custom printer who can specialize in oversized prints .. I like uncle johns 100k quote lol.. I value the mind more than my wallet. I dont need a rolex to tell time.


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## rebellioncc (Aug 19, 2007)

The best thing for you is to figure out what you want printed because thats alot work and ink use for little money. You must make it worth -a -buck for the printers to print. I suggested to print in the two colors and use the shirt as a color too, maybe in halftone and cut down the design also. Or wait couple of years and invested in buying a machine and wait for two years to learn the process.

good luck
I ran into the same thing that Why I brought the machine and waited.


rebellioncc.net


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

Rusty, Whether you have a regular size or a machine that's oversize printer, it takes about 15 minuets to set up each color, my point is if you print 36 or 1000 its a fixed cost.all up front. A regular press can't print the size you want.
John


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

product247 said:


> ...I have a lot of *artist friends* who need this work so I think I can start making my money back quick...


Trust me on this, artist friends are not a good source of income.

I have lots of artist friends, many will expect to pay less than your cost of supplies and not understand why you would charge for labor.

Some of them will even ask you to do it for free because they know their designs will make a fortune and they'll split it with you... well, I'm still waiting for that one to happen...!


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

Uncle John said:


> Rusty, Whether you have a regular size or a machine that's oversize printer, it takes about 15 minuets to set up each color, my point is if you print 36 or 1000 its a fixed cost.all up front. A regular press can't print the size you want.
> John



There is no fixed cost... usually $15 per screen and maybe an art charge and then the amount of colors so lets say cmyk 4 color charge of $3 per shirt ..

So lets say I had the artwork in seperations, halftones in black.. then $60 for the screens.. 32 shirts would be $96 dollars so $156 for 32 shirts. So thats $4.80 per shirt right?? Am I really that far off? Had the larger screens and plates to mount the shirts on the only thing I can see you using more of is emulsion and ink so add another dollar... $5.80 a shirt. Right? That looks pretty standard... Something I would pay.


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## Uncle John (Mar 11, 2007)

What about the time to change the plattens?
Didn't want to get in a pissing match with you. U win, if you can get 36 shirts printed all over more power to you.
John


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

product247 said:


> There is no fixed cost... usually $15 per screen and maybe an art charge and then the amount of colors so lets say cmyk 4 color charge of $3 per shirt ..
> 
> So lets say I had the artwork in seperations, halftones in black.. then $60 for the screens.. 32 shirts would be $96 dollars so $156 for 32 shirts. So thats $4.80 per shirt right?? Am I really that far off? Had the larger screens and plates to mount the shirts on the only thing I can see you using more of is emulsion and ink so add another dollar... $5.80 a shirt. Right? That looks pretty standard... Something I would pay.



CMYK printing?
The silkscreen companies you spoke with will do oversized 4 color process printing for you?

There's also overhead costs / employee costs / labor etc. that needs to be taken into consideration to operate a business and how much OTHER clients are willing to pay for their specialized services.

It's not just their labor that counts, it's their creative / technical expertise that has value as well.

Btw, how much are you planning to sell the shirts for?
Most people think that art on t-shirts shouldn't cost much more than the shirt it's printed on... the value that you place on your designs and how much profit you think is fair might not be agreeable to others, so the market also determines the value.


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

Uncle John said:


> What about the time to change the plattens?
> Didn't want to get in a pissing match with you. U win, if you can get 36 shirts printed all over more power to you.
> John



I understand.. Shops want to charge you extra because they arent set up for that but they should be.. Why not? If Im a customer and I want red then you should have red.. not say "well we only have blue so were gonna charge you out the *** because we would have to print red now and we dont want that business anyways"... So I just drove over to a craigs list ad and for $250 got a 4 color manual with side mount clamps large plattens, flash dryer, uv light box table with lights and black leather clamp down cover, about 10 screens, bottles of emultion, cleaner, scrubber, a few pints of black, white, red, blue and yellow ink, 2 squeegees and a scoop!! The kid is moving off to college and he was doing it out of his garage... I guess I got lucky! Im actually typing with rusted hands... everything needs a good cleaning and maybe some black spray paint here and there but it all works!!! Thanks for inspiration.


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

If that garage setup can do the professional, high quality printing you need, why didn't you just offer that teenage kid $156 to print your 32 shirts?


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

tshirtsep said:


> If that garage setup can do the high quality printing you need, why don't you just offer that teenage kid $156 to print your 32 shirts?


Im not expecting the print quality to be high with this setup... I would expect to pay that at a high quality shop though ... the kid was selling it to me because he is going off to college.. so why would he print something for me? Now I can do it for just my time and as much as I want because its mine now.. so I guess you're wrong.. Im not gonna buy the $30000 dollar printer to start. Im only doing this right now to print my own stuff.. I own another business already.


I mean when a screen printer says its $15 for each screen then I figure thats for their time in making the screen....? But its not,,, its really like $150 a screen because the printing is fast and easy once everything is setup... basically what screen printers dont like doing is setting up the press and the screens..... Why dont screen printers just be honest and charge like $600 for the setup and like 25 cents per print because thats really how they expect to be compensated.

I bill about $65 hour for design, so if a project takes 15 minutes or 5 hours doesnt matter... I get paid the same relative amount based on my time. Now if I had to drive to the clients office to work, would I charge more per hour??,, NO,, I would simply charge an extra fee for driving there like $150. So if you wanted 15 minutes of me at your office then it would be $150 + 15 minutes at $65 an hour. Make sense? You guys would say something like "if you want me to come to your office for 15 minutes then my time is worth $400 an hour now" that doesnt make sense.


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## groggman (Jan 17, 2007)

I checked out the pricing on the rich link you posted, at the 5.80 you are willing to pay you stand to make a decent profit. Cool. Nothing wrong with wanting to live the American dream. There is a big difference between the sales side, & the print side of this business though. Now that you got your equipment, & begin to learn, & print your own garments. You might find your profit margin decreasing opposed to increasing(getting it all) I had a couple thoughts cross my mind as I read through the post, & responses. 1)Any seasoned printer can have you loading, unloading, & pulling a squeegee in about 20 mins., but that doesn't make you a printer. In other words getting an anchor tattooed on my arm doesn't make me a sailor. 2)Can the equipment you just got do what you are wanting it to do? If so then yes, I would call you lucky. 3)What I've learned is the guy that owns the equipment is the guy who makes the money, but it's not all profit. Especially if it is your only source of income, & business is slow . 4)If you stick with it you will soon learn that the best way to conduct business is not to let your customer tell you what he is going to pay you for your services{(labors)(blood, sweat, & tears)}. 5)Unless you become a contract printer with at least one auto press, I don't think you will be charging .75 a color, 15.00 screens for 4 color process oversized prints, but I could be wrong. Like I said these were just some thoughts that came to mind as i was reading.


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

product247 said:


> I bill about *$65 hour for design*, so if a project takes 15 minutes or 5 hours doesnt matter... I get paid the same relative amount based on my time.



$65 an hr. for designs is very overpriced to many people not used to paying that when a teenager going off to college can ALSO do very nice designs for a lot cheaper rates.

Is that a ripoff?

Like I said, you are paying for professionals time / ability / cost of doing business... if he offers a service that's not easily obtained and more time consuming, and have other higher paying clients willing to pay those rates, then he deserves what he earns.

I provide art & separations for silkscreen companies that pay thousands in costs for one t-shirt from design to production... they would not bother to take a request to print an order of 32 shirts.

Silkscreen companies pay me $500-$1,000 to separate similiar designs you've posted so that shirt will obviously be very expensive if I was part of their production costs.


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

Did you read this post?

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/business-finance/t69687.html#post414164

Forum members here *defend the artist* as much as *screenprinters* for their prices that seems inflated to the average customer.



Gratz_The_King said:


> *he told me 400$!!!!*
> 
> all i want is a simple sketch i drew up with a pencil and paper redone in ful size and in color. its a very simple design actually. the worst part about it is that im not even guaranteed to like it!!!
> 
> im wondering what the going rate is for sketches to be drawn up by artists. do they all charge this much? *or is this guy trying to stiff me?* thanks


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

tshirtsep said:


> $65 for designs is very overpriced to many people not used to paying that when a teenager going off to college can ALSO do very nice designs for a lot cheaper rates.
> 
> Is that a ripoff?
> 
> ...



I guess it all comes down to what I do or what I proove to be true. Because Im not trying to make the printing part into a business right now but I do NEED to learn this process because I dont have a huge retail market and I need to make sure Im not loosing money while getting my business off the ground... I can make my own seperations and have already priced out a used wide format printer and roll of transparency. You guys have more experience than me but that doesnt mean that I cant do what Im about to do. To be honest I think I can make this work. If I need to move up to a better system later on its no skin off my back I paid $250 for a bunch of stuff... Just the ink, screens and emultion would be about $200 and that kind of stuff you usually buy new. Its every entrepreneurs job to tell the next man he cant do it better or cheaper because you are defending your own little castle but John said I needed $100,000 and I just spent $250... You said I would need over $10000 do oversized prints and this little cheap 4 color press will do oversized prints... **** $10000???? Well if I got $10000 then I got $9750 left over... With $10000 I'd be setting up franchises with an ad in the back of entrepreneur magazine.


OH YEAH and I'm not an artist anymore... Im a screen printer





--


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## tshirtsep (Feb 15, 2007)

product247 said:


> You said I would need over $10000 do oversized prints and this little cheap 4 color press will do oversized prints... **** $10000???? Well if I got $10000 then I got $9750 left over... With $10000 I'd be setting up franchises with an ad in the back of entrepreneur magazine.
> 
> --



No, I said I spent $12,000 for a *professional* printing press setup / supplies and *CAN'T* do oversized without investing more money.

A person who buys a box of crayons is not a professional artist, neither does buying a $250 setup make you a professional silkscreener doing top quality work.
The prices you are complaining about are from professionals with expensive equipment and overhead and employee costs, right?

Just as anyone can pay a talented high school kid to do a design for *$25* flat rate rather than paying a professional *$65 an hour*... So any teenager with a $250 setup in their parents garage will be cheap enough for you to work with too.

Noone says you can't become a success at silkscreening, just that it takes time and money to become a professional who charges professional rates for their work to stay in business and earn a profit.


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## BBProd (Oct 29, 2008)

product247 said:


> I value the mind more than my wallet. I dont need a rolex to tell time.


Heh, maybe you should go the Swatch route: tempera and a sponge brush...


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

i'm not going to pile on... but you bought 250 bucks worth of equipment.... and now you will get a chance to see... although printing isn't rocket science... it's a skill that takes awhile to learn... good luck... you sound mad enough to figure screenprinting out and make it work...


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

Catbox said:


> i'm not going to pile on... but you bought 250 bucks worth of equipment.... and now you will get a chance to see... although printing isn't rocket science... it's a skill that takes awhile to learn... good luck... you sound mad enough to figure screenprinting out and make it work...



Yeah I no real tangible experience but I've thought and read about it a lot so its not like Im walking into a room with the lights off.


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

BBProd said:


> Heh, maybe you should go the Swatch route: tempera and a sponge brush...



haha yeah well I got some screen filler and drawing fluid too and the kid gave me some tools to give the damaged look so I probably will get a little organic..... But you know adding to your chuckle Ive spent a few weekends razor blading out paper and spraypainting the stencil on to shirts. Ive also drawn pictures on shirts with permanant marker (hours for one shirt).. I think organic or more like having a multimedia kind of approach can make for some good product.. Keeping in mind that I dont have to ever be a little slut and print some tightwads little league team logo just perfect or his money back.. Im only printing for my own stuff.


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## groggman (Jan 17, 2007)

[ Keeping in mind that I dont have to ever be a little slut and print some tightwads little league team logo just perfect or his money back.. Im only printing for my own stuff.[/quote]

Now thats funny... You were wanting someone to be your little *****, with your little 5.80 break down. 

This is even funnier yet...

[ OH YEAH and I'm not an artist anymore... Im a screen printer]


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

groggman said:


> [ Keeping in mind that I dont have to ever be a little slut and print some tightwads little league team logo just perfect or his money back.. Im only printing for my own stuff.
> 
> Now thats funny... You were wanting someone to be your little *****, with your little 5.80 break down.
> 
> ...



Hey I'm just going by that little print out that all the screen printers usually hand you... Im not making up these prices. The only people "making up prices" are the screen printers they just add some bs in there to feed them for their troubles... What my point is is that if a screen printer is really set up to do large prints then they would have it already setup ... it would be no more labor just the materials. So there wouldn't be a "Changing out the platens and buying larger screens" fee


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Please, let's keep things professional here folks. No need for offensive and vulgar remarks to have a discussion.


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## groggman (Jan 17, 2007)

Sorry Rodney, I wasn't trying to be rude or vulgar. I just got cuaght up in the moment. It was more like a knee jerk reaction.


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

This is a great forum lol cant wait to see how your prints look good luck


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

HelpRunMyShop said:


> This is a great forum lol cant wait to see how your prints look good luck


Hopefully they come out good! The revolution will not be televised


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## HelpRunMyShop (May 28, 2008)

Cry put it on you tube please i want to see the learning curve in action


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

HelpRunMyShop said:


> Cry put it on you tube please i want to see the learning curve in action


WORD! maybe I will. That would be helpful to some... other than that the only thing this thread did was help me. Last night I was just a concerned customer, today I have screen printing equipment. I have a few trips to home depot that need to be made to get everything the way I want it.. other than that I cant wait to see how hard registration marks and all the other bs is to deal with. Im sure it will be a fun process but I'm sure it wont be that hard to get good at.


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## out da box (May 1, 2007)

This is gonna be fun!


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## groggman (Jan 17, 2007)

out da box said:


> This is gonna be fun!


 Wheres the popcorn?


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Well I think it is totally awesome, that you got inspired to get your own equipment and learn to screen print  Let us know how the learning goes


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

product247 said:


> WORD! maybe I will. That would be helpful to some... other than that the only thing this thread did was help me. Last night I was just a concerned customer, today I have screen printing equipment. I have a few trips to home depot that need to be made to get everything the way I want it.. other than that I cant wait to see how hard registration marks and all the other bs is to deal with. Im sure it will be a fun process but I'm sure it wont be that hard to get good at.


I won't take too long...2-3 hours tops...lol ... and if you do stick it out... I would like to see how you respond as a printer... when someone asks for 4 color shirt front and back for cheaper than you can print it... then you will say...ahhh i understand what they meant....lol good luck and always remember to have fun


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## product247 (Mar 23, 2008)

Catbox said:


> I won't take too long...2-3 hours tops...lol ... and if you do stick it out... I would like to see how you respond as a printer... when someone asks for 4 color shirt front and back for cheaper than you can print it... then you will say...ahhh i understand what they meant....lol good luck and always remember to have fun


You're painting your own reality.. I dont think it will take me 2-3 hours, infact I think I will always be learning new lessons about this for the rest of my life. If you read my post from the beginning 

(A) no one ever gave me a price
(B) I just decided to buy my own stuff because printers are too expensive to do the stuff I want.

If it cost you too much and it becomes too much for your customers and they have to buy their own press and throw it in their buddies garage then thats not my problem.. see Im not in the screen printing business so much.

The fact is that if I want to make money and start small I have no choice now do I. It doesnt really matter if you laugh or have a good explination of why your price is unreasonable. I have to go over your head. Its not complicated or a joke either.


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## Catbox (Oct 3, 2007)

I give up... lol


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

Closing out this thread since the original poster is now printing his own t-shirts and doesn't need a quote.


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