# 12 or 15 needle machine?



## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

What would you buy a 12 or 15 needle single head?
And why ?
They told me it's easier but 1800 extra. My machine wouldn't run 24/7 in the beginning so I just wonder what you all think?

kind regards!


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

I worked for a lot of years doing contract embroidery, I think maybe twice had a design with more than twelve colors in it.


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Depends on the type of embroidery you plan to do. Most corporate left chest, cap logos will not have a lot of different colors so a 12 needle will be more than enough.


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## ShirlandDesign (Nov 29, 2009)

Good point Jane. We did mostly all corporate.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I have 2 Brother PR600 6 needle machines and an SWF 15 needle. 6 isn't enough, 15 can be enough to drive you crazy... 

I don't have any 15 color designs, we have a lot of 8-9 color designs that 5-6 colors are common and the other 2-3 change. We keep a standard set of grays, black and white on the center needles of the 15 needle and use the outer 3 on each side for the colors we constantly change.


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## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

If you're doing mostly company logos, 12 should be more than enough. In fact, 9 would probably suffice. We've been doing this for 3 years now, and I can't think of one single design that required more than 12 thread colors. Come to think of it, we've only done one design that actually required 12 colors, and that was a drawing of the San Francisco skyline I digitized myself (took 2 weeks)...

15 is overkill, IMO.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

We do mostly corporate and 12 needles is more than enough. Most designs are 1-3 colors. We do have two designs that run a lot (tourist industy not corporate) that have 13-14 colors. I did some full back realistic designs for a horse stable and then I was glad I had 15 needles to handle all the shading. Having more needles does allow you to keep white, black, red and other frequently used colors in place. I also reserve two needles for 60 wt/ 65 needle thread. You could also keep a needle for metallic or another speciality thread that requires different tensioning.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

Usually if you have a 15 needle machine, almost half of them you will have dedicated colors that you never change out. For example on my 15 needle, I have a white, black, red, and and grey and green that I use all the time for my local high school on needles and I NEVER change them out. Since I use so much of those colors, it is so easy to just leave them on the machine all the time.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Great imput!
Thanx What I understood from the demos and your imput is you don't really need them BUT when you got them it's really easy. You can leave your thread there and you can put some thicker or other needles standard on your machine.
Is it worth the extra money for you guys?


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## SystemVoid (Dec 18, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Great imput!
> Thanx What I understood from the demos and your imput is you don't really need them BUT when you got them it's really easy. You can leave your thread there and you can put some thicker or other needles standard on your machine.
> Is it worth the extra money for you guys?


That's a question only you can answer. We have 12-needle machines, and use about 5 of those needles for standard colors that never get changed (white, black, red, yellow and blue). They're the needles where the spools are most difficult to get to.

More than likely though, you're going to have to change out thread colors regardless of how many needles you have. We don't use metallic thread very much (if at all), and we use the same size needles for all of our threads.

Personally, I would go with a 12-needle machine. That extra $1,800 can go a very long way somewhere else, ie: advertising.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

That's a question only you can answer
Yep I know but I don't got the machine yet so I was hoping on your input Thanx!


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

I suspect the 15 needle machine is a newer version of the 12 needle machine and they probably made other improvements as well.

Does it have a laser pointer? I can't imagine life without the laser pointer on my Barudan Elite Pro.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

It is the elite pro so you tell me


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## dan-ann (Oct 25, 2007)

I sure agree with Ted - I have 2 pr 600's also . They are a great machine but I would love to have 12 needles for 12 color changes. I hardly ever go over that but with 6 I have to change colors a lot.

Not sure if I would switch brands because I have a very good tech here in town.


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

For $1800, I would go with the 12 instead of the 15... In 3 years, I think I've done 2 designs that had more than 12 colors...

Thread changes are not a big deal if you are sitting next to the machine waiting for it. If you are trying to do other things and get tied up, the machine ends up sitting waiting for you and that can really slow down your production time. We tend to run most of our stuff on the 2 PR600's and keep the 15 needle for the 8-10 color designs, jacket backs and hats.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Rene,
I'm a little confused. Are you getting a Barudan? Right now the single head Barudans are either 9 or 15 needle machines. Or are you looking at buying a used machine? Or are you comparing two different brands of machines?
Dave


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

No you got me there I am sorry it is 9 or 15 you are absolutely right.
Stupid me stupid title now right.
Are you satisfied with your barudan?


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> No you got me there I am sorry it is 9 or 15 you are absolutely right.
> Stupid me stupid title now right.
> Are you satisfied with your barudan?


I have a 15 needle Barudan Elite Pro that I love, love, love. Can't image life without this machine.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

I have the 15 needle Elite Pro and absolutely love it. I'd highly recommend it. I'd definitely spend the extra money and get the 15 needle machine. You'll get a larger sewing area in addition to the extra needles. Also, it appears the 9-needle is their old technology...what I mean is that they advertise the new one...Elite Pro II as being able to sew at 1300 stitches per minute because it uses servomotors as opposed to the stepper motors on the older model machines like mine. The 9 needle machine is still listed at 1200 stitches per minute so is probably still the stepper motors. Ask your salesman he'll be able to tell you. If you were to see the two side by side the 15 needle looks like a beefier machine. I was actually trying to find out the price on the new 15 needle machine today to see if I could swing a second machine but I couldn't get through to Barudan.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Another thing to consider with the larger machine is that you'll have more room between the arms of the machine. This is important when you are trying to embroider a relatively rigid bag. I'd hate to have a bag bump into the side of the machine and possibly knock itself out of a hoop. I don't know if this would really happen on the smaller machine but we've had a tight squeeze on some of the things we've embroidered on our machine and it would make me nervous to try it on a machine with even less clearance.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

I saw a price of 13000 us dollar
I can't seem to find the link but I have the printed version at home so I can email you that link tommorow.
A larger sewing area When I do a jacket how big can I mak my sentence on the elite pro?


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

The 15 needle Elite Pro will sew 330X500 mm sewing field 

The 9 needle XL will sew 250x400mm sewing field


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

So about 45 to 48 cm?
Is that enough on a jacket?
I think so but I am new so..


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

500 mm will be more than enough to do a jacket back...or you can put multiple designs in a single hoop


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

[media]http://www.barudanamerica.com/assets/files/client_area/Pricing_and_literature/singlehead7.16pdf.pdf[/media]

I don't know if it is up to date but there is the price of the three singleheads


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

I bought mine two years ago and the prices were a bit less back then. Casters will probably be extra but unless you really plan on moving the machine around regularly I wouldn't buy them. I had originally had mine on the casters but ended up taking them off...the machine moved around when on the casters. We also bought the Welcome Kit and I can't remember exactly what was in it but it included the Dakota Collectibles 4000 treasure chest.

If you really get into the business the $1,800 difference really isn't that much in the big picture and you'll probably be much happier.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

In Europe the prices are higher but you convinced me not to buy the smaller machine


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok I did it!
I bought a barudan Elite pro 15 needle machine and the deco studio with it to start my embroidery business.
I had a lot of doubts (amaya,or the barudan bridgetype, 12 or 15 needle, deco or embroidery etc. etc.) and I hope this is gonna work out for me.
I would like to thank you all for your replies and when I handle the learning curve I hope to help others as well as you all helped me.

Regards from tthe Netherlands ( europe)


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## anniekay67 (Mar 16, 2010)

I have a Barudan Elite Pro 15 needle. I love it. I keep about 6-8 needles always with colors I use constantly. The others are what I change out. I like the bigger area to sew in also. I would go with a 15 needle machine again.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

You won't be sorry. You're buying the best. Keep us posted on your progress.


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## myfinishingtouch (Nov 21, 2009)

Next we'll have to convince you to buy a hoopmaster.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

video looks nice but it i expensive.
Probably worth it though.


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## LUV DEM TIGERS (Jul 25, 2008)

Prinsz said:


> video looks nice but it i expensive.
> Probably worth it though.




Every single penny.

Look through distributors and you might be able to find it cheaper.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Does everybody here work with the hoopmaster?


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Does everybody here work with the hoopmaster?


Do you mean, use it every single day to make life easier? Then yes. Couldn't live without it.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Why don't the brands like barudan,melco,tajima etc etc make something like this?


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Why don't the brands like barudan,melco,tajima etc etc make something like this?


Why would they want to?


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## inurdreams (Nov 6, 2009)

Yeah, if you are very concerned about the quality of stitching and ease of operation choose more needles. Why? Well if you are embroidery hats they require a different needle especially for smaller text. Most regular flat garments require a ball point needle. So what I do is split my machine. I have the first 8 needles using ball point and the next seven using the sharp needle for hats. I end up having double colors on the machines ie. needle one - white & needle 9 white but for two different types of garments.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

cool,
That's what I am gonna do


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

lizziemaxine said:


> Why would they want to?


Cause they can sell it as an extra option?


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Cause they can sell it as an extra option?


Now that you ask that question, I think Barudan does. I just looked at the invoice from when I bought my Elite Pro in 2004 and I got my initial Hoopmaster set up through Barudan.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Yes but why don't they make their own hoopmaster?
Probably not important but just wondering


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Yes but why don't they make their own hoopmaster?
> Probably not important but just wondering


Design cost, manufacturing cost, cost of keeping inventory. Why reinvent the wheel when there is already a perfectly good wheel available.


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## SunEmbroidery (Oct 18, 2007)

Using the Hoopmaster will give you quick, consistant, accurate placement from size to size and order to order.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok Clear,
I will check the hoopmaster out any ideas where to buy it ( it's cheap to )


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Ok Clear,
> I will check the hoopmaster out any ideas where to buy it ( it's cheap to )


Price will probably be the same regardless of who you buy from so you might as well buy directly from Hoopmaster. It isn't going to be cheap but it will save you time and money in the long run.


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Price will probably be the same regardless of who you buy from 
Haha you are not in Europe I see.
Lots of price differences here Jane, but directly from hoopmaster is a good idea thanx!


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## lizziemaxine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prinsz said:


> Price will probably be the same regardless of who you buy from
> Haha you are not in Europe I see.
> Lots of price differences here Jane, but directly from hoopmaster is a good idea thanx!


Oh yea, that's right you are in Europe. 
Closest I have ever been to Europe is Ft. Lauderdale, Florida or Mason City, Iowa (not sure which is closer).


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## Prinsz (Oct 6, 2008)

Well Jane you are always welcome in Europe and thanks for your advice!


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