# Ready to buy a couple DTG machines!



## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Hello,

Our company currently outsources our DTG printing, around 5k pieces per month.

We are ready to finally purchase a couple machines for our shop and hoped to get some feedback from other DTG owners. Looking to find the right machines that can handle our production, but also keeping into consideration ink costs since some suppliers ink is quite a bit more expensive.

Here are some details:

1. everything we print is on white fabric
2. need to be able to print 5k pieces per month
3. average print size is around 10" x 16", nothing oversized

Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated!


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

JeridHill said:


> Setting up a system as a dual CMYK would be perfect for your needs. Send me an email at [email protected] and we can further discuss a good fit for your company.


Doing a dual CMYK set-up is a great idea. 

We actually have spoken with distributors for Brother, Epson, and now Belquette.

Really looking to hear some feedback from owners who run one of these printers or similar price range, regarding print quality, time, ink costs, etc.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

If you want only double CMYK then it's better to get epson modified then EPSON Surecolot or brother. A lot of cheaper than going industrial and CMYK is not problematic.


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Smalzstein said:


> If you want only double CMYK then it's better to get epson modified then EPSON Surecolot or brother. A lot of cheaper than going industrial and CMYK is not problematic.


We have a modified Epson right now. The problem is it's too slow and actually the print colors are not great, not vibrant enough. It's taking us about 5 minutes to print a 10" x 16" color photo on white fabric. 

We hoped to get a better set-up and print 50+ pieces per hour, and have better print quality/colors.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

Every a3 engine will get you 50 pieces an hour on whites, even more if double CMYK. Belquete MOD1, Spectra, Freejet, Rjet-3.

Actually Belquet has a video where they are printing 60 pieces an hour.

Also it's good to have two machines and a conveyor dryer, Single operator will be able to run those.


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Smalzstein said:


> Every a3 engine will get you 50 pieces an hour on whites, even more if double CMYK. Belquete MOD1, Spectra, Freejet, Rjet-3.
> 
> Actually Belquet has a video where they are printing 60 pieces an hour.
> 
> Also it's good to have two machines and a conveyor dryer, Single operator will be able to run those.


Any suggestion on which brand overall works best running double CMYK? Based just on print quality and output.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

kinzie said:


> Any suggestion on which brand overall works best running double CMYK? Based just on print quality and output.



Where are you located?

_


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Located in LA.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

kinzie said:


> Any suggestion on which brand overall works best running double CMYK? Based just on print quality and output.


Print quality will only be depemdant on which rip each printer uses


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## 102557 (Mar 6, 2010)

Smalzstein said:


> Every a3 engine will get you 50 pieces an hour on whites, even more if double CMYK. Belquete MOD1, Spectra, Freejet, Rjet-3.
> 
> Actually Belquet has a video where they are printing 60 pieces an hour.
> 
> Also it's good to have two machines and a conveyor dryer, Single operator will be able to run those.


Thanks for the mention, proud to be in your line up!


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

Best one is used Brother 541(discontinued but many used are available) for your operation. If you are 2nd hand don't care person. But ink price will kill you. Almost 2times more which is one of most important factors. You will spend around $10000 plus minus for 5000 shirts. Your saving can make you rich.
$149 DuPont ink vs brother $300-350/liter.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

allamerican said:


> Best one is used Brother 541(discontinued but many used are available) for your operation. If you are 2nd hand don't care person. But ink price will kill you. Almost 2times more which is one of most important factors. You will spend around $10000 plus minus for 5000 shirts. Your saving can make you rich.
> $149 DuPont ink vs brother $300-350/liter.
> Cheers! Inks are on me always.


Yea that seems to be the downside of going with a Brother.

If we are running high production, 10k+ per month, based on ink costs whats are some good options?


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Smalzstein said:


> If you want only double CMYK then it's better to get epson modified then EPSON Surecolot or brother. A lot of cheaper than going industrial and CMYK is not problematic.


So you think if we only need to run dual CMYK then our best option is using a modified Epson? We have one now but the print times are killing us! haha... About 5 minutes just to print a 10" x 16" photo on white fabric. Also we have not really perfected the inks, the colors still come out very dull.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

kinzie said:


> So you think if we only need to run dual CMYK then our best option is using a modified Epson? We have one now but the print times are killing us! haha... About 5 minutes just to print a 10" x 16" photo on white fabric. Also we have not really perfected the inks, the colors still come out very dull.


Which printer do you have ? 5 minutes is way off. 

For you is best to buy a 3 engine because they are faster then a2 engines. 

print time for your size graphic would be about a minute on a3 engine with 720 x 720 resolution. 

Normaly the print will not be saturated much a this resolution BUT when you run double CMYK you lay down twice as much ink so it will look nice. 

But if you want really good saturation then pretreatment for light garments is recomended. With it prints will be as vibrant as sublimation


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Smalzstein said:


> Which printer do you have ? 5 minutes is way off.
> 
> For you is best to buy a 3 engine because they are faster then a2 engines.
> 
> ...


Right now we are testing with a modified Epson but not sure the details on which model, just know its not working haha.

We are ready to invest in a couple new machines so I'm quickly trying to learn all I can and give my opinion with the rest of my coworkers. Had some reply's from many distributors, now just trying to sort out options.

So a2 or a3 engine, is that just in reference to the print size area?


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

It's the referennce to print size area but also a bit more. 

A2 engines like 4880 and 3880 are considered proffesional photo printers and have a bit better output quality then a3 engines (like R2000, R1900, R3000). On the downsize a2 are a lot more slower because they are using a lot smaller dot size so you have to print in higher resolutions. When printing with white ink you can see the difference in quality (maybe not so significant but still) but on white shirts there will be no difference. 

That's why I think that a3 would be better for your needs.


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## kinzie (Jun 2, 2014)

Smalzstein said:


> It's the referennce to print size area but also a bit more.
> 
> A2 engines like 4880 and 3880 are considered proffesional photo printers and have a bit better output quality then a3 engines (like R2000, R1900, R3000). On the downsize a2 are a lot more slower because they are using a lot smaller dot size so you have to print in higher resolutions. When printing with white ink you can see the difference in quality (maybe not so significant but still) but on white shirts there will be no difference.
> 
> That's why I think that a3 would be better for your needs.


Got it thanks!

Based on running dual CMYK, which a3 might be our best option? Keeping in mind we are doing high production, ink costs are a very important factor to the machine we choose.


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## Smalzstein (Jul 22, 2008)

kinzie said:


> Got it thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Based on running dual CMYK, which a3 might be our best option? Keeping in mind we are doing high production, ink costs are a very important factor to the machine we choose.


Ink cost will be only determindes by actaul cost of ink and how the RIP handles the graphic (printer itself has little to do with this). 

That's said printing CMYK is pennies really.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

If you are only printing on white fabric then you should use a conveyor dryer for drying the fabric. This is your best high production method.

_


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## txshirtwerx (May 23, 2014)

I have the Brother 381 so I run both color and white. They do make the 341 without white. I love my machine. I have been printing over 1000 shirts per month for over a year. 16000 prints in 15 months.

The ink cost was cut in half a few months back with the addition of the 380cc tanks for color inks. For someone your size they also sell larger quantities of ink that may also cut the cost. 

I have been looking at the Kornit. I don't have the volume yet to justify the cost of $60K, but they run 2 times faster than the Brother and that ink is about 1/3 rd the cost. But I cannot tell you about reliability. 

With my Brother I turn it on and hit print. It has been a great investment for me.


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

txshirtwerx said:


> I have been looking at the Kornit. I don't have the volume yet to justify the cost of $60K, but they run 2 times faster than the Brother and that ink is about 1/3 rd the cost. But I cannot tell you about reliability.




The Kornit Breeze - the $60,000 printer you mentioned - is rated by the manufacturer to print up to 40 cmyk prints per hour.

_


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## EricDeem (May 7, 2011)

I'd buy several sub $20K printers over buying a single Kornit breeze. I am not a big fan of the wet on wet process and their prints are some of the dullest in the industry.


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## spiderx1 (Oct 12, 2009)

I agree with what Eric said above. Also an advantage to having more than one printer is, if one goes down you don't stop production you just slow down a bit. Also do not automatically assume that dual cmyk cuts your print time in half. It increases the density of ink that can be put down at a given resolution, but a lot of other factors come into play and it is RIP dependent. You can only put so much ink down at one time before bleeding becomes an issue. Just do the timed print test, take notes.


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## Le fever (May 15, 2014)

From what I've followed in this thread I'd like to throw in that the FreeJet is a great option. The bulk ink system is the cheapest and easy to replace on-the-fly instead of having to deal with cartridges, especially at the volume you're looking to print at. Plus with the DirectRip software you can edit your ink resolution which is better for faster speed or if you're printing on thinner/thicker white garments.

The print quality is top notch too, we've been doing a lot of full-size (12.5"x17.5") photo prints lately on our 330TX that have been pretty stunning. I haven't done it to mine, but the FreeJets can be used as dual cmyk. Definitely worth hitting up the OmniPrint team to check out their options (especially the 700TX, it's a beast!). Good luck!


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