# Alternative All Black Opaque Film Positive Inks



## beenprinted (Sep 8, 2013)

Curious if anyone can recommend a cheaper alternative to the maybe industry standard BLACKMAX film positive ink for darker halftone dots to get the really fine details.

I Found a few options of All Black inks that can be added to CIS (Continuous Ink systems) or refillable ink cartridges.

let me know if you recommend any of these, or something else. 

if not maybe you'll give one of them a try and find out for yourself... I'll probably try the cheapest option and report back for informational purposes anyhow. though i won't have anything to compare it to besides regular black ink. and one other experiment listed below.






http://store.inkjetcarts.us/screen-positive-black-hybrid-ink-p4487.aspx
INKJET CART Hybrid Max - $87.00 *1 Liter*

http://www.inksandbeyond.com/jantex-proof-positive-black-1-liter/
JANTEX Proof Positive - *$100 1 Liter*

http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/BLKLITER
BlackMax- $129 - *1 Liter*

http://www.independentprintsupplies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=OPI-1L
IPS - Opaque positive ink - $140*1 Liter*

http://www.americaninkjetsystems2.com/store1/symphonic_film_positive_black_ink.html
AMERICAN INK JET -$70.00 *16oz (473mL)*

http://www.screenanddigitalsupply.c...er-opaque-ink-refill-for-epson-dye-based.html
POSITIVELY BLACK - $75.00 *16oz (473mL)*

http://americanscreensupply.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=192
MAXBLACK - $150*1 Liter*


let me know Thanks!
Ben



PS: A Side note I've tried in the past with a 1400 epson printer to add a CIS system and install all black regular ink... without using ACCURIP or equivilant... I tested a print with a 100%C 100%Y 100%M 100%K design. The results we not any better than just using a single black ink cartage with RGB Black.... which was depressing. eventually the CIS system made that printer head carrier get caught on the Ink lines and i ended up breaking the plastic clip that runs the carrier belt... after 2 months of saying i would find the part and figure out how to fix it, i got angry and tossed it out... So to anyone out there *I HIGHLY RECOMMEND REFILLABLE CARTRIDGES*


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

I've never used anything from this company, but I have been eyeballing their wares for years.
Just another one to add to your list:

FD Dye Black Ink - Film Direct - smallest size is 8oz at $65.


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## sben763 (May 17, 2009)

Inkjetcarts.us ink works well. The bulk from silk screen supplies is blackmaxx. I have used both. 

I know you said you've used the 100cmyk method but if you've used in photoshop or Illustrator in RGB mode even changing the color to 100% CMYK it will revert to 100K. You have to change the image mode to CMYK then change color.


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## beenprinted (Sep 8, 2013)

Hmmm I was setting it up aS a vector file within corel draw when doing that experiment... never tried converting that to a Cmyk raster image... good to know...

Glad you've tried the ink jet cart stuff... it's half the price of most other options... I think it's the route ill go


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## ChameleonPrints (Apr 7, 2007)

We use ink from Inksupply. $14 for a 16oz bottle. We have never had an issue but we do use Accurip when printing film in our epson 1400. Never tried it without using Accurip, so can't say if its a good ink to use without.

D2-PT-K - MIS Dyebase Ink for Epson Claria Printers - 480ml (16.2oz) - Black - NEW LOW PRICE - Inksupply.com


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

ChameleonPrints said:


> We use ink from Inksupply. $14 for a 16oz bottle. We have never had an issue but we do use Accurip when printing film in our epson 1400. Never tried it without using Accurip, so can't say if its a good ink to use without.
> 
> D2-PT-K - MIS Dyebase Ink for Epson Claria Printers - 480ml (16.2oz) - Black - NEW LOW PRICE - Inksupply.com



their pricing looks pretty good, but I worry about how they label/describe their other products. They are selling larger bottles that they claim are dye based ink, but I would say by the color of the inks that they are pigment based. I wouldn't want someone to mess up their printer not realizing they were getting pigment based ink. 
Doesn't this look like pigment based to you:
D2-PT-6SET - MIS Dyebase Inkset for Epson Claria Printers - 480ml (16.2oz) - 6 Color Inkset - NEW LOW PRICE - Inksupply.com
the only way I could think this isn't pigment based is if the bottles themselves are tinted/colored plastic?


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## ChameleonPrints (Apr 7, 2007)

It looks like they got lazy with the pictures. If you look at the Pint set of 6 inks for the Heat Transfer ink... its the same picture.

HT6-PT-SET - MIS HT inkset 6 colors K,C,M,Y,Lc,Lm - Inksupply.com

If you look at the picture for the Pint set of 6 inks of Pigmented ink... again, same picture.

MISPRO6PTSET-PK - MIS PRO Archival Color Inkset 6 Colors C,M,Y,K (Photo Black), LC, LM - six 480ml (16.2oz) bottles - Inksupply.com

All I can say is what I said before, we use this ink in our Epson 1400 and its dye based ink... we do get the 16oz bottles but I only purchase black. They list in the description what printers the ink is compatible with and if its dye based or pigmented. Given that the same picture is used on multiple products, I would say you can't trust the pictures on their site to be an accurate representation of the product.


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## Greatzky (Jan 28, 2009)

ChameleonPrints said:


> It looks like they got lazy with the pictures. If you look at the Pint set of 6 inks for the Heat Transfer ink... its the same picture.
> 
> HT6-PT-SET - MIS HT inkset 6 colors K,C,M,Y,Lc,Lm - Inksupply.com
> 
> ...



Sounds good. I noticed this after going through their site a little more after posting. Thx for the correction!


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## beenprinted (Sep 8, 2013)

sben763 said:


> Inkjetcarts.us ink works well. The bulk from silk screen supplies is blackmaxx. I have used both.
> 
> I know you said you've used the 100cmyk method but if you've used in photoshop or Illustrator in RGB mode even changing the color to 100% CMYK it will revert to 100K. You have to change the image mode to CMYK then change color.


Thank you Sean for your input on the opaque ink,

I Ordered in the Inkjetcart opaque black ink, It is the best deal and it works great with Accurip.. I'm running it through a epson 4800 4 cartridges Black on Left & 4 normal pigment inks on right side.

Works great, took a while to get setting right in Accurip... but for anyone looking, i've have good results with setting @ 
Ink Coverage: Standard
Resolution: 1440 x 720 ( 8 Passes)
Droplet weight: 3

It could get a bit darker but then i end up loosing some of the detail on 95% halftones.. this is about the darkest i could get it without the test strip filling in a bit on the 95%'s...


Results on accurip With Opaque inks are night and day from the Dye base inks i was using before... i can not testify to compare inkjetcart to BlackMax or any others but it is definitely a step up front basic dye inks, and pretty affordable compared to it's competition. 

The image attached shows how see through the basic ink is compared side by side.. kinda of hard to get a image, but the Cow image is 100% opaque... (It was done at a heavier droplet weight since it had no halftones) The dancer/state of Ct is with old dye base inks from an epson 1400( no accurip)


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## FilmPrintingPros (May 3, 2014)

There is a company I use called CO Ink Distributions that sells an Epson 1400/1430 All Black Ink System that is identical to Ryonets Blackmax system.

They also sell replacement black ink tanks that are fully compatible with Ryonets BlackMax system, but are much less expensive.

They were on sale for $75.00 per 6-pack when I purchased some last month, but even there non-sale prices are $86.00 if I remember correctly. 

They claim that the ink is the exact same high quality ink, but i wanted to see for myself. In my testing I have not noticed any difference in opacity and quality, and can confirm that they are fully compatible with my 1400/1430 BlackMax system.

They also said they sell replacement resetters and cartridge shells w/chips, although am not sure what they cost.

Overall I would definitely recommend their replacement black ink tanks; for no noticeably difference in quality their prices are outstanding. I always had this looming feeling that Ryonet is robbing me blind at $100 for a set of replacement tanks... Seems I was right.

Here is the link and contact info for them:
6 Replacement Black Ink Tanks for Epson 1400 1430 All Black Ink System | eBay

Email: [email protected]


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## beenprinted (Sep 8, 2013)

pretty cool, i see they have a pretty good cost on Sublimation bottles for ciss systems as well. thanks for the link


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## FilmPrintingPros (May 3, 2014)

You're very welcome. Yeah they have great prices on many other OEM inks, and actually sell OEM Epson UltraChrome HDR ink in 1 Liter bottles for bulk ink systems, their the first I have ever seen do this.

The owner has been really helpful and i have had only great experiences dealing with them.

I contacted them today in reference of further information for my fellow screen printers concerning their new replacement black ink tanks, and to make sure my previous post is accurate, and here is what I was told:

• Their replacement black ink tanks are on sale for $74.00 per 6-pack until Nov. 15th. [Normally $86.00] but depending on their sales they might consider permanently fixing the price to $81.00.

• They are manufactured by a company called Proof Positive [although CO Ink Distributions is their only U.S. Distributor]

• All of their Proof Positive products + ink are shipped for free via 1-3 day or 2-5 day shipping with same day handling, and are reachable by phone/email 7 days a week.

• Here is part of their reply: "they contain the exact same ink that Ryonet uses in their replacement black ink tanks, and are specifically designed to be compatible with Ryonets BlackMax system" and "we found it necessary to provide a fairly priced alternative so customers are no longer forced to pay Ryonets extremely high prices, without sacrificing opacity or quality."

• I asked permission to share their contact information with anyone interested and they gladly provided it. I copied and pasted it below for anyone who is interested in checking them out.

CO Ink Distributions
720-771-2501
stores.ebay.com/COInkDistributions


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## nekkron99 (Jan 14, 2015)

FilmPrintingPros said:


> You're very welcome. Yeah they have great prices on many other OEM inks, and actually sell OEM Epson UltraChrome HDR ink in 1 Liter bottles for bulk ink systems, their the first I have ever seen do this.
> 
> The owner has been really helpful and i have had only great experiences dealing with them.
> 
> ...


Great! Thanks for the info. I just placed an order with them right now.


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## FilmPrintingPros (May 3, 2014)

Nice. Post a follow up as to your experience [particularly their black ink tanks]. I'm almost positive they not only contain the same ink, but are identical; but another persons opinion would be best. Seems we have found the needed resolution to this $100 per 6-pack dilemma.


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

Have you tried HP DeskJet 1220 with HP 78 ALL Black cartridge ?
HP DeskJet 1220 has built in RIF function in driver for dark print. Just download a driver and see yourself. 
This is definitively the cheapest all black option since the whole setup would cost you near 200 - 300 USD


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## adriatic (May 5, 2011)

adriatic said:


> Have you tried HP DeskJet 1220 with HP 78 ALL Black cartridge ?
> HP DeskJet 1220 has built in RIF function in driver for dark print. Just download a driver and see yourself.
> This is definitively the cheapest all black option since the whole setup would cost you near 200 - 300 USD



Here are some samples printed with that HP 78 All Black Cartridge if you are still interested


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