# Vapor foam technique -really need vapor foam?



## eagleact (Aug 3, 2010)

We still get paper lines on left chest sublimation of 100 poly shirts. We simply print with extra paper for large designs. Left chest would be a little depressing to use 16X20 paper for say 3X3 design.

We have tried the vapor foam technique with other types on foam. What happens then is we get the press line and the paper line still. We have tried all kinds of foam including the bottom layer material from hotronix. Perhaps the press smashes the foam and does not work as intended. I thought the heat press material would be thing to use. We have tried various other materials as well.

Does it really have to be Vapors foam? Does anyone have a cheaper alternative that does not wear out like Vapors? 
Does the Vapor really work? I am not necessarily opposed to using it if it really works but every substitute we have tried fails.

I want my operators to print extra paper and then use a smaller platen but they say it will be too difficult to line up the left chest on a small platen. I would agree it would slow them down. 
We have tried ripping the paper by hand but the line on 100 poly (like sportek) is still there. It is better since it is not as defined but it is still there.

Any words of wisdom?
Thanks.


----------



## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

eagleact said:


> Any words of wisdom?


Have you tried backing off the pressure? I did not see where you mentioned in your post about your current pressure being used. For some reasons, many garment decorators feel the need to use medium to heavy pressure on everything. That is not always needed. 

Here is what I do. Take a garment that is particularly hard to press and go to a fabric store. Ask the clerk to get you a yard of the fabric that best matches your shirt. Then cut yourself some pieces that cover your heating element. This will save on the cost of doing sample prints. Then print / press the samples with a variety of different pressures. Figure out a way to measure the pressure using the knob and markings you put on the adjustment area if you don't have a press with a digital pressure gauge. Even try to just rest the heating element on top of the garment without locking it down. Then lock the press down with the next sample. Next, rotate the know a 1/4 or 1/2 turn and press another sample. Keep track as to which sample you do what to (i.e. I prefer to print the exact instructions and press them to the shirt) so you can repeat the process when you try to duplicate the results on a real shirt. Once you figure out what gives you the best results on the shirt, keep the shirt that has the printed instructions on it.

Hope this helps you.

Mark


----------



## D.Evo. (Mar 31, 2006)

It sounds like the pressure is too high.

Pressure is the key - for sublimation on fabrics it has to be quite light. Mark's suggesting on experimenting with your pressure untill you get the right setting is spot on. Note, in some cases if your pressure is light you may need to increase dwell time a little to compensate for that.

When using any kind of foam the main point of it is to raise printable area and make sure that the size of your transfer paper is BIGGER than the foam - the edges of the paper will be hanging off and will not get pressed into the fabric, thus they will not leave any lines.


----------



## cornpopps (Jan 8, 2010)

I started off using the foam but its takes so much time and effort to get it right where you want it inside the garment. I was going crazy on long runs. I now tear the edges of the paper so you get softer corners. Pressure is key. Too much and you will still get paper marks, too soft and you get a faded logo. What I did was test and test and I guess its muscle memory but I can feel how much is just enough now. After I press I take a clean cover sheet and press again about 3-4 sec. with just a bit more pressure and that seems to take out any crease marks. So long Vapor foam.


----------



## 20vK (Jul 9, 2011)

What kind of cover sheet do you use? Just any old paper?


----------



## eagleact (Aug 3, 2010)

I think pressure might be one source of the problem. We run hotronix air swingers. We have them at the lowest point where they still function but I think it might be more pressure than it needs. I have a fusion press as well. We will test left chest on that press and see if we can find a sweat spot between too light and not good color to no paper lines.
Thanks.
Brent


----------



## cornpopps (Jan 8, 2010)

20vK said:


> What kind of cover sheet do you use? Just any old paper?


Uncoated Butcher Paper, avail at Sams or Smart and Final if you have one local.


----------



## rresquire (Dec 23, 2014)

Responding to this to help future people out because it drove us absolutely nuts, and we have a pretty easy solution. 

Take some foam (for us, 1 inch thick) that is a smaller area than your lower platen. Cut the edges of the foam to a 45 degree angle slope. Put it in your poly shirt, press. Viola, no lines. Make sure the foam does not hang over the edge of the lower platen, as this will create sheer force and cause a line.

Thanks to the bestblanks sample video for giving us this idea.


----------



## eagleact (Aug 3, 2010)

What kind of foam? How dense/ firm? Where did you get it? Does it need replacing every one and awhile?
Can you post a link to the video you mention?
Thanks!
Brent


----------



## Kevb (Apr 29, 2014)

With our press, we can thread shirts over the lower platen. When using foam, after we get the pressure set, we place the foam under the teflon cover of the lower platen. That keeps the foam in place and bevels the corners of the foam so that it won't leave a press mark.


----------



## eagleact (Aug 3, 2010)

Kevb - what kind of foam? How thick? Where do you get it?
Thanks.


----------



## Kevb (Apr 29, 2014)

We use the Vapor foam. I think we got it from Coastal Business. You set the pressure on your press so that the foam is compressed around half it's thickness. I can't recall exactly how long it lasts, but you can get around 40 -50 pressings before it won't bounce back.


----------



## DKgrafix (Aug 13, 2008)

I have bought an extra silicone heat press pad. I have cut it up in smaller pieces (lets say 7.75 x 10 for letter size paper)
I put that on the platen and put the teflon on top to keep it in place.
As long as the paper is bigger than the pad, there will be no hard edges. You will still see the edge, but it will be very subtle (If pressure is not too high, light pressure is a must for sublimating tees anyhow)
I have cut a few different sizes for a few different paper sizes. Have one for each different size paper.


----------



## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

eagleact said:


> We still get paper lines on left chest sublimation of 100 poly shirts. We simply print with extra paper for large designs. Left chest would be a little depressing to use 16X20 paper for say 3X3 design.
> 
> We have tried the vapor foam technique with other types on foam. What happens then is we get the press line and the paper line still. We have tried all kinds of foam including the bottom layer material from hotronix. Perhaps the press smashes the foam and does not work as intended. I thought the heat press material would be thing to use. We have tried various other materials as well.
> 
> ...


You have to use foam or a larger sheet. It doesn't have to be vapor foam. An upholstery foam will work just as well.

The cost on a larger sheet should be minimal. We run everything on a 17x22 sheet to avoid lines. The paper cost is 16.82 cents.


----------



## bradyboyy88 (Nov 10, 2014)

headfirst said:


> You have to use foam or a larger sheet. It doesn't have to be vapor foam. An upholstery foam will work just as well.
> 
> The cost on a larger sheet should be minimal. We run everything on a 17x22 sheet to avoid lines. The paper cost is 16.82 cents.


What do you do to get rid of the shiny box that the platen makes when you cant take your pressure and temp any lower? Does it ever wash out? 

I have been thinking about ironing the front of the entire shirt except collars but not sure if that will do anything.


----------



## headfirst (Jun 29, 2011)

Use a different shirt.


----------



## rresquire (Dec 23, 2014)

Ack, sorry for the lack of response on my earlier post. The foam we use is just the generic foam from coastal. We buy the 16x20 squares and cut them to size as needed. After we cut the foam to size, we cut a 45 degree angle on the side. This can be done one of two ways. One, just take a scissor and snip it down. It'll look gross, but will function fine. The second is that you tack spray some cardboard to the bottom for rigidity, and you run it through a table saw at 45 degrees. I cant find the link to the video at the moment, but let me see if I can get you some pictures of a gently used pillow. Remember, what's causing the lines is sheer force of the press contacting the shirt. So slopes and stuff that make the force less sheer are your friends. Also, make sure the foam is not hanging over the edge of the platen, as that will introduce sheer force as well. And then finally, put a thin teflon between the upper platen and whatever you're pressing.

Have used these foams for several hundred presses and still no lines on shirt. It's not as springy as it used to be, as another user mentioned. But like I said, still no lines.


----------



## bradyboyy88 (Nov 10, 2014)

rresquire said:


> Ack, sorry for the lack of response on my earlier post. The foam we use is just the generic foam from coastal. We buy the 16x20 squares and cut them to size as needed. After we cut the foam to size, we cut a 45 degree angle on the side. This can be done one of two ways. One, just take a scissor and snip it down. It'll look gross, but will function fine. The second is that you tack spray some cardboard to the bottom for rigidity, and you run it through a table saw at 45 degrees. I cant find the link to the video at the moment, but let me see if I can get you some pictures of a gently used pillow. Remember, what's causing the lines is sheer force of the press contacting the shirt. So slopes and stuff that make the force less sheer are your friends. Also, make sure the foam is not hanging over the edge of the platen, as that will introduce sheer force as well. And then finally, put a thin teflon between the upper platen and whatever you're pressing.
> 
> Have used these foams for several hundred presses and still no lines on shirt. It's not as springy as it used to be, as another user mentioned. But like I said, still no lines.


Guess I am bouncing back and forth between threads with you ha! Yea I am definately going to try the foam you mentioned. The shine is what I am worrying about. I am thinking I need a shirt with higher temperature tolerance? How does the foam help with reducing the shine like you mentioned?


----------



## bradyboyy88 (Nov 10, 2014)

headfirst said:


> Use a different shirt.


Which shirt do you recommend? I just need white and grey... Vapor seemed to pricey but Im guessing it provides more room for error since its designed for sublimation?


----------



## Prudat (Oct 4, 2014)

We just buy foam at the craft store in a Teflon pouch. It does break down eventually but last a while.


----------



## Comicsans (Nov 7, 2012)

I tear the edges of the paper around the design. Then I press the shirt on the vapor foam. I do not worry about whether the paper overlaps the foam. Torn edges and light-medium pressure does not leave any marks for me.


----------



## bradyboyy88 (Nov 10, 2014)

Comicsans said:


> I tear the edges of the paper around the design. Then I press the shirt on the vapor foam. I do not worry about whether the paper overlaps the foam. Torn edges and light-medium pressure does not leave any marks for me.


But what shirts are you using? Some shirts show lines more than others from what ive seen now.


----------



## Comicsans (Nov 7, 2012)

I use vapor and some of the sports performance shirts from gildan and jersey.

You really need minimal pressure. Just enough to make sure the paper is completely in contact with the shirt. Let the ink do the rest


----------



## socceronly (Jul 22, 2012)

headfirst said:


> The cost on a larger sheet should be minimal. We run everything on a 17x22 sheet to avoid lines. The paper cost is 16.82 cents.


Where are you finding this price? 

This would really change things for me. 

Thanks
JM


----------



## kblack (Feb 2, 2011)

I bought the foam last year and still had a problem with lines form the foam, so I gave up...I will be experimenting this week till I get this right. I have two orders to get done and really want to offer sublimated tees. 
It sounds like it is all in the presser.


----------



## kblack (Feb 2, 2011)

kblack said:


> I bought the foam last year and still had a problem with lines form the foam, so I gave up...I will be experimenting this week till I get this right. I have two orders to get done and really want to offer sublimated tees.
> It sounds like it is all in the presser.




I did a lot of testing with pressure. This is the order I did today. It turned out ok...there was some ghostin and a little line but not too noticeable. I used Guildan preformance # 42000. 

I plan to try the spray tack to see if that works better than tape. 


Foam cut just a little smaller than the print.
Covered the dome with a Teflon cover sheet, then Split the shirt over platen and centered print. Used a lint roller over the shirt..I taped the print down and covered the top with an other cover sheet. And pressed for 40 seconds at 390 deg. At med-light pressure.

It seamed to ghost more when I pre heated the shirt.


----------



## paradepretty (Nov 22, 2013)

I use the vapor foam (cut smaller than the paper) and a piece of teflon over the foam. It took me a few tries to get the pressure right, but I haven't had to change my pressure setting since then (over a year ago.) It helps to order a couple pieces of foam and cut it down to a bunch of different sizes and shapes. 

I don't use the teflon on the bigger designs, though. I have trouble getting even color distribution using teflon for larger logos.


----------



## Red Leaf (Feb 2, 2011)

I use this stuff all day long and it works great!
Airtex Heavy Duty Foam Slab 0.5''x24''x90'' at Joann.com
I put down the foam and tape it to my press with heat tape on all sides. Then I put a large piece of butcher paper over it and tape that down to the press as well. Just make sure your transfer paper hangs over each edge of the foam by an inch or two and you won't get any lines. I keep light pressure( 2 or 3 on hotronix0 and it works great. Best of luck!


----------

