# Ever had a design stolen?



## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm located in Los Angeles, and a few short months into selling my own line of shirts online and I've already found a retailer in the UK that has ripped one of my designs off and selling it. I've contacted the retailer and was told they are investigating, and that they merely buy designs to print from "designers" on good faith that they original. 

Kind of a touchy subject. It's not a complicated design at all, but it's pretty unique. And the dates of their copy of mine works out perfectly. You can see my shirt on their website and FB 4-6 weeks after mine went on sale. The only thing the "artist" did was change the font. The beef of the design is such a blatant copy and paste rip off that it is painful to see.

Kind of a bummer. Just getting started in the biz to find this happen so soon. I imagine it was snagged off of FB and copied. And I KNOW there's not a whole lot you can do to avoid it. But wondering what you would do if you found it had happened to you. Or if you have had it happen.


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## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

that sucks a lot, tell them instead of selling ripped off work your willing to sell them yours for a good deal. and second, I went to my local swap meet last weekend, if you want to see HIGH volume copyright violations go there. They were ripping off everything from starbucks logo, to OBEY Clothing and everything in between, Not to mentions they were selling "burned CD's" for $5 each. and they have THOUSANDS of them. Not sure what you can do that would not cost a lot of money. sorry to hear, BUT seems you have great designs


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

I don't know if my designs are great. Well they are to me LOL! I'm into kind of classic, blocky, old school kind of stuff, but cleaner aesthetically. Kind of a take on the DIY style sort of. I'm not trying to follow any trends, just make what I think I would wear and hopefully other people will like it too. I have nothing against the new styles, I dig them and own plenty of them, even though I'm not a fan of all overs much, I don't wear those. I just don't want to be scrambling around trying to catch the new waves. If that makes any sense. 

Anyway, my design to a lot of people would be simple and more "classic". But they're original designs and I do it all from beginning to end, Like you do. I remember we were talking about our flashes and taking all day to print 50 shirts LOL! 

Just kind of a bummer. But the shirt in question was kind of funny and really the simplest shirt I have. Sometimes you never know what's gonna hit. Or be stolen. 

Yeah I've seen the flea market dudes. Lame.

I don't know if selling them my shirts would work out, as I'm here in the U.S. and they're in England. I did think about trying to get payment or a percentage. But I'd rather see them take it down. This place looks like a pretty major shirt selller over there. Thousands of shirt designs for sale. We'll see how they respond next now that I've sent them links to FB showing actual customers wearing my shirt like 6 weeks or so before they even announced their copy of my design. 

It's pretty apparent what happened. Somebody saw my design on FB probably (my site hadn't hit Google enough yet to rank) they thought "Hmm good idea", snagged it changed the font and sold it to these guys. It took them about 6 weeks to get it into production and up on the site.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Is it multiple designs, if your designs are 'simple', it's quite possible that they could come up with a similar idea. As you say they may have been sold the designs by a third party and be unaware of you, I think that it's worth talking to them.
It's a change to see the other side of the argument, too many threads are asking 'how do I get away with copyright theft?'.


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

PositiveDave said:


> Is it multiple designs, if your designs are 'simple', it's quite possible that they could come up with a similar idea. As you say they may have been sold the designs by a third party and be unaware of you, I think that it's worth talking to them.
> It's a change to see the other side of the argument, too many threads are asking 'how do I get away with copyright theft?'.


By stating my designs are simple is kind of diminishing them. When I say simple, I mean not a lot of fine line stuff. I'm into blocky and inky stuff. A lot of one/ two color stuff. Hard to describe. Simple possibly but stylish. Or rather stylish to a guy like me and the people who buy them. 

The design in question while not being techinically difficult to a printer. NO WAY they came up with the same design out of coincidence. It's impossible. And the timing of them putting it up for sale 4-6 weeks AFTER mine is further justification for my case. I designed it, I can see my graphic work in the lines. While it isn't really anything super intricate, I did take my time to design it well and there are certain "characteristics" in it that only I could have done. the guy grabbed it and simply changed the font and then passed it off as his own work. Or her...

If I could link to the design on their site, I would. but at this point I don't think it's the smartest thing to do until they've had a chance to rectify it. I'm just wondering what to do here and if I have any recourse. I'm not looking for anything financial. I just want it removed from their site.


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Talk to them, they may be the victim of the design-lifter.


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## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

Im not sure about this but check to see if copyrights work with people outside of the U.S? And second some people really don't care if they are thieves and I bet that most of their designs are probably stolen also. I hate to say it but your probably either have to spend a lot of money to fight it, travel over seas to fight it. Or you can try having a lawyer send them a letter and see if they stop. but Im pretty sure they wont till they think that its a serious matter and can get in a lot of trouble. It Sucks, any way you can post the design on here so we all can take a look at the art your talking about?


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## joyceepoo (Jun 2, 2008)

If he doesn't have an international copyright, there isn't much he can do is there?


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## missswissinc (Feb 21, 2012)

I would look around and see if there is a template for a cease order for them selling the shirts. sounds to me like they are not going to do anything any time soon. make their money and say screw you. I believe I at one time was looking around for something like that and it was a template that all you had to do was fill in some stuff and they emailed it out. put in my email and sure as day got email with a pdf saying you have been served with a cease order for something I put into the line for why you asked for it. I agree its going to be a waste of time but atleast if you instill the fear of god abit I bet they will listen.


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## Riderz Ready (Sep 18, 2008)

Most of us have gone through this. When you first start it is the number one issue you worry about - people stealing your design. After time you realize good designs are a dime a dozen and what really makes you succssful is marketing your design and brand. 

Over time you worry less about designs being stolen and more on how to broaden your market and visibility. It is process -


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## joyceepoo (Jun 2, 2008)

If the protection of your images are very important to you, you can do one of two things. Keep your images off of Facebook and only show pictures of a model wearing the actual t shirt. This is what I plan on doing when I get my Storenvy site up and going. 

The other thing you can do is get all of your images copyright marked by Digimarc. This concept is designed for photographers and artists who sell their work online or like to show off on Flickr. Digimarc codes their work conspicuously so that the thief does not know they've been had. This allows the subscriber (artist/photographer) to go directly to the site which their image is being sold on. It's only $49 a year for up to 1,000 images.

Digimarc for Images


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Unless you have the money to sue someone in a foreign country you are pretty well stuffed. @Riderz Ready has got it, move on, you will wear yourself out worrying about trivia, and it is trivia in the grand scheme of things. Spend your money promoting your next idea.
Who is the guy in the UK, I might even know him?


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

Tshirt Grill


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## joyceepoo (Jun 2, 2008)

Very nice site they have. T-Shirts, Band, Movie, Funny,vintage and Punk T Shirts from TShirtGrill I would certainly put up a fight about it somewhat. I would not lay down completely. I have won 2 lawsuits and would hate to think what would have happened if I had not at least tried. Consult an attorney if you have a copyright via the copyright.gov office. See if he can take your case on contingency. Then it ccosts you nothing. If you don't have a legal copyright via www.copyright.gov, then don't bother with an attorney because he has no legal ground to fight on. But you can order them to cease selling your work and see how that goes.


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

We'll see what happens. But I'll do whatever I can to make them take it down.


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## Deathtricity (Oct 9, 2011)

Not to sound like a D bag but isn't it pretty common knowledge that those types of sites are pretty much all rip off designs??? Yea some have their own stuff but most don't. NOT TO SAY ITS RIGHT. but as SOON as it hits a bigger site you will probably have 10 people ripping it off of that site and so soon. Yea you can go after them and if you do have a the legal paper work in place you can fight it. but as soon as you win/lose you will find that 10 more sites have it on their sites. I feel like a Di** saying this but at least you can say you have designs people actually like? so your doing something right.


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## 10sJunkie (Jun 5, 2012)

Andy... I agree with the others who say better to let it go because when you go to court, only 3 three outcomes are possible: 1) they rule against you.... 2) they rule FOR you - and you collect.... 3) they rule FOR you but you can't collect. Those aren't very good odds IMO.

Also in order to win a lawsuit, you have to be able to "prove" you were injured even if you aren't trying to get the money. That will mean finding out what dollar amount the retailer has sold because you are basically going to be saying "that money should be mine".

I would take a different tact... First, I would celebrate creating something worthy of being ripped off... then I would be combing the UK for a retailer willing to carry the *authentic version *of the design... once I hooked up with a retailer, I would work day and night to help my guy drive the other guy out of business!

good luck!


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

joyceepoo said:


> Very nice site they have.XXXXXXX I would certainly put up a fight about it somewhat. I would not lay down completely. I have won 2 lawsuits and would hate to think what would have happened if I had not at least tried. Consult an attorney if you have a copyright via the copyright.gov office. See if he can take your case on contingency. Then it ccosts you nothing. If you don't have a legal copyright via www.copyright.gov, then don't bother with an attorney because he has no legal ground to fight on. But you can order them to cease selling your work and see how that goes.


Don't link to bad sites, it helps their Google rankings!


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, I wasn't about to let it go so easily, so I just kept emailing them. Well, not a barrage of emails, but I kept emailing them about once every other day or so. 

They emailed me this morning and they have taken the design down. They didn't admit to the "designer" copying it, but they have taken it down. 

So. A little persistence paid off. This time.


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## joyceepoo (Jun 2, 2008)

porkchopharry said:


> Well, I wasn't about to let it go so easily, so I just kept emailing them. Well, not a barrage of emails, but I kept emailing them about once every other day or so.
> 
> They emailed me this morning and they have taken the design down. They didn't admit to the "designer" copying it, but they have taken it down.
> 
> So. A little persistence paid off. This time.


YAY!!! They took it down! Wonderful!

I am so glad you took a stand. Yes, persistence does pay off many times. After all, your work is your work...your mind...your creativity. Why should you be impressed that someone thought enough of it to steal it? Sure, there may be times when there's nothing you can do about it but never take that laying down.


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

My thoughts exactly. While I could let it go, and save myself the emotional barrage of paranoia everytime I make a new design, I just had to give it my best. I'm small potatoes in this game. Just starting, I've got a grand total of 6 "live" designs on my site (with many more in the pipeline). But I had to stand up to them, even if it only made me feel like I was standing up for all the Little Guys of the world. 

Browsing their site, it's a cornucopia of "borrowed designs". I imagine if enough people "let it go" then there'll be a thousand sites like this doing the same thing. Hell, maybe there ARE a thousand sites like this already? 

Moral of the story is if this happens to you, then don't just let it go. Don't let it consume you into the poor house, or cripple you mentally either. But do what you can to have the right thing done. If you won't... then who will? There's a thousand "borrowed" designs on that site. So I don't take any particular satisfaction that my design was that great. It really wasn't. They're just hawking around looking for what will sell. So they have all these designs and maybe I'm the first person that's ever "confronted" them? What if all the others did likewise? A business like this would go away. 

I hold the same principles with the shirts I use. I'll now only use USA made shirts. Sure my $5 for that AA blank may not be much, but it sets forward a chain of events to help keep some person in America employed and it helps keep food on their table.


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## lray (Feb 1, 2012)

you could/should start doing the poor man's copyright for all your future designs. look it up on wiki


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

lray said:


> you could/should start doing the poor man's copyright for all your future designs. look it up on wiki


Poor Man's Copyright holds some legal value in the UK. But not in the US. It won't hold up in court.


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## joyceepoo (Jun 2, 2008)

True it won't hold up in court, but it will keep someone else from stealing it from you and claiming it as their own. This is what happened to Mary Stevenson, the person who originally wrote the poem "Footprints" back in 1940. She failed to copyright it, nor did she do a poor man's copyright. She knew nothing about copyrights. She simply kept the poem in her dresser drawer and passed out copies to many people. Eventually people would complain to her about her poem showing up in newspapers without credit given to her as the author. Even then, she did not think anything of it as for some reason it was her way of being humble. Some years later, Margaret Fishback-Powers filed copyrights on it and claimed it as her own. The fight was on but the person who originally wrote it passed away long before Margaret did. The poor woman's family could do nothing about it because of the copyright issue. Margaret died in 1985 but to this day, Margaret's family continues to profit from Hallmark's contract with Margaret even though it has now been proven that Mary Stevenson indeed was the author of her poem, Footprints. A poor man's copyright would have spared her from this sad situation.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

joyceepoo said:


> A poor man's copyright would have spared her from this sad situation.


If it doesn't hold up in court, how would it have helped?


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## joyceepoo (Jun 2, 2008)

kimura-mma said:


> If it doesn't hold up in court, how would it have helped?


Had Mary had a poor man's copyright, she would have proven Margaret Powers to be a liar BEFORE Margaret got that huge contract from Hallmark. Now Mary would not have been able to sue Margaret, but she would have been able to prove that Margaret lied about being the author. 

In fact, in 1984 she'd found her original copy that she'd written back in 1936. Forensic scientist proved beyond a shadow of doubt that this copy was that old and the U.S. copyright office awarded her the copyright on it. However, Hallmark had already signed a contract with Margaret Fishback-Powers. But at least the world knows (those who read about it) what really happened and that alone, meant a lot to the original author.


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## screen street (Apr 6, 2012)

porkchopharry said:


> Well, I wasn't about to let it go so easily, so I just kept emailing them. Well, not a barrage of emails, but I kept emailing them about once every other day or so.
> 
> They emailed me this morning and they have taken the design down. They didn't admit to the "designer" copying it, but they have taken it down.
> 
> So. A little persistence paid off. This time.


dont worry too much about this .. anyway .. whatever design it was ..it is your reward .. ok you didn't get any money for that, but that means you made something what other people would like to copy, sell, buy .. you will make super cool designs in future and you will make much more money .. they wont go far with stealing .. forget about 'court cases' its not for you .. it costs loads of money and time .. the best what you can do is to tell everybody that they stealing .. if you have blog .. name and shame them .. write about this case .. i wont buy from them ..


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## PositiveDave (Dec 1, 2008)

Get an empty envelope and mail it to yourself. Wait until someone has a big hit. Copy design and place in envelope. Call lawyer.
Poor man's copyright isn't of any value.


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## hubindustries (May 21, 2012)

By law, A work is protected by copyright as soon as it is created. You no longer have to officially register it (and haven't for awhile now), All you need is proof of creation. If it is a design your worried about getting ripped off, print it when you finish it and go and have it notarized by a licensed notary public. Then you have proof of creation date that will stand up in court if you are willing to go to the mat and sue someone. If nothing else you have good legal standing for a cease and desist letter.


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

I just had dated photos on Facebook of the shirt and customers wearing them. It was enough to get them to remove the design.


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

You don't own the creative concept of clapping hands on a t-shirt. They didn't steal your exact copyrighted design. They created their version of the concept. I'm afraid you wouldn't have much legal recourse here. Frustrating, but true. But to be sure, it may be worth contacting a local IP attorney and ask their opinion.


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## athletesbrand (Mar 18, 2015)

kimura-mma said:


> You don't own the creative concept of clapping hands on a t-shirt. They didn't steal your exact copyrighted design. They created their version of the concept. I'm afraid you wouldn't have much legal recourse here. Frustrating, but true. But to be sure, it may be worth contacting a local IP attorney and ask their opinion.


Understood. Although we are the first and only to ever do praying hands using athletic gloves of any kind and we even checked with uspto on this. We've done them in every sport where we split the profit with a charity. Definitely frustrating. I shot Nike a message yesterday on their live chat, and our fans started reaching out to us telling us about it after an instagram post from somebody, and I noticed yesterday morning they had it called the "Praying Hands" shirt which is what we've always called ours... then after I reached out about it, and our fans started talking on social, within a couple hours Nike changed the name and domain name to "Clapping Hands". Definitely fishy. Seems to me they blatantly took it and now are trying to act like it's not the praying hands form. Check out the screen shot images. You can tell it's a direct copy by the positioning of the hands and curl of the fingers, the use of athletic gloves, and the curl in the underhand pinky finger. Just a bummer because Nike used to be my favorite brand. I own everything Nike and never suspected them of being unoriginal. In fact I tell our customers to go to Nike when they ask us to make performance wear because I don't ever care to compete with Nike since they're kind of my home town hero being from Oregon. But oh well... unfortunate when the big guy steals from the little guy for profit knowing there's nothing we can afford to do about it.


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## NoXid (Apr 4, 2011)

If your idea were so extremely original and "out there" no one would even understand it.

Any idea that people understand at first glance is itself built upon underlying cultural memes, symbols, etc, so anyone who can "get" the idea, could have in theory come up with it themselves, just as you did.

In any case, it does not matter if some Nike designer saw your idea and decided to make their own version of it, as that is perfectly legal.

But, really, the idea of praying when golfing ... well, that, if nothing else, must be proof that there is no benevolent deity up there


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## kimura-mma (Jul 26, 2008)

The USPTO strictly governs trademarks. Your issue is with a copyrighted work. So it's a bit apples and oranges.

As NoXid said, what they did is perfectly legal. You can always check with an attorney to see what legal recourse you have, but I doubt it would be much.

The fact that your fans acted as quick as they did on social media says a lot about their loyalty to your brand. You should continue to embrace that, it's a special thing. My advice is not to get too caught up in this and remain focused on being original. That is also a special thing. Let the followers follow. Stay ahead of the curve and continue to be original.


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## athletesbrand (Mar 18, 2015)

Awesome feedback, thanks a ton everyone! Definitely clears the air a bit.


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## porkchopharry (Mar 4, 2012)

I had forgotten all about this thread! 

I have since had a number of tee designs ripped. I've usually contacted the site owner and shamed them to the point of taking them down. 

Also learned that copyrighting certain things isn't as easy as it might seem. 

The business has grown well, partly in fact because I've joined up with a couple online retailers. That in itself is a bizarre thing because many of the other "brands" are so busy chasing their tails trying to find the next big seller, that they uh...like to "borrow" from other shirt makers. 

I've kind of always had the long haul theory, marathon not sprint, when it came to my business, so desperately seeking the next BIG SELLER has never really been something I look for. 

Having said that, I used to get ENRAGED when I saw somebody ripping stuff. It still bugs me, but now I'm more able to laugh it off and use it to propel me forward. 

My philosophy about design "borrowing" is: When it comes to independent shirt makers, if you are so concerned about what I'm doing, rather than focusing on what YOU should be doing...then I guess go for it. I'll still be here in 5-10 years. Will you? Bye-Bye.


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## fxmaster (Jun 20, 2005)

Good designs are stolen! Bad designs are stolen too. Some people have no talent and zero original ideas and just steal to get by.
Unless is is a photocopy I don't know if you can do much. Maybe if it was a saying that you trademarked.


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## mmoguls (Mar 9, 2009)

Steal all you want, I'll just make more...


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## Printor (Apr 16, 2015)

Every good idea gets copied if there is money to be made. Just keep drawing and prove your good at what you do. When you know you won't get $compensation, social media can easily cost the thief much more $ than they stole from you.....know what I'm sayin?


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