# Tips for creating ICC profile



## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

As mentioned in my other post, I'm trying to create my own ICC profile. I have a local printer that is trying to help me, but I'm thinking I may need to get my own equipment to do this right.

Is anyone using a ColorMunki to create profiles for sublimation? How about the SpyderPrint? I know I could spend $1,200+ and get the X-Rite i1pro2, but I'd rather not go that far.

I also see people advertising profiling services, but after talking to another man that creates profiles and given my own problems, it seems like it is difficult to create a sublimation profile remotely.


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

mcpix said:


> As mentioned in my other post, I'm trying to create my own ICC profile. I have a local printer that is trying to help me, but I'm thinking I may need to get my own equipment to do this right.
> 
> Is anyone using a ColorMunki to create profiles for sublimation? How about the SpyderPrint? I know I could spend $1,200+ and get the X-Rite i1pro2, but I'd rather not go that far.
> 
> I also see people advertising profiling services, but after talking to another man that creates profiles and given my own problems, it seems like it is difficult to create a sublimation profile remotely.


Her's a cheaper option. Never tried it so can't vogue for it though. 

LensRentals.com - Rent a ColorMunki


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## bakaichi (May 1, 2007)

I think they Spyder Print only make RGB profile

Color munki can do both CMKY and RGB.

So depend on what kind of printer you have.

Small format can Epson mostly use RGB

But i think most large format use CMYK output profile.
( i could be wrong )


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## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm using RGB so either one would work for me.

The Lens Rentals is a good idea, I could give it a try and see if I'm even headed in the right direction.

The local printer that I've been working with has created numerous paper profiles for me in the past and they've all been great. However, the dye sub profiles just haven't looked right at all. That's why I'd like to do the readings myself, to see if there is something I'm missing in this whole process.


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## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

Well, I may have just doubled down on my frustrations, but I just picked up an i1 Photo Pro on eBay pretty cheap. Once I get it, I'm going to try and create my own ICC profile for my Epson 4880. I have just enough knowledge about this stuff to be dangerous, so I'll follow up and post my results. 

If anyone is currently using this set up to create profiles and has some tips/ideas to share, they would be much appreciated.


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## Comicsans (Nov 7, 2012)

I have the i1 pro that I got off of ebay pretty cheap as well. You can use it with manaco, profile maker, or the i1 profiler software. The software is a bit spendy, but it really is worth it if you plan on being in the printing biz for a while. You can keep all your monitors and printers calibrated over the long haul.

I use small format 1430 epson for sublimation. The most accurate way I have been able to get great colors is by printing the color charts on some Dynasub metal, and taking measurements off of the metal print. The colors look great on shirts and metal. I have not experimented with measuring off the actual shirt tho. The results may be better.

A little tip: when using the i1 to take printer measurements, make sure to have a shorter length USB cable. If it is too long the I1 will not have enough power to read the chart. Had this happen to me. The error just kept saying that it could not read the chart.


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## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. 

I haven't had a chance to try out my new i1 yet. I'm assuming you used glossy Dynasub metal. Any problems reading the glossy surface?


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## Comicsans (Nov 7, 2012)

No problems reading the glossy surface. 

Wanted to add that the i1profiler is the best software of the 3 I mentioned for profiling.


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

For anyone else interested, I used a ColorMunki to make profiles for three Epson printers. I rented it for a week; I recall total cost including shipping and insurance was under $100. While I had it I also calibrated the monitors I used.

I created multiple profiles at different paper/ink settings for a variety of substrates, so it was fairly economical to try the variations, just to see what worked best. I made different profiles for aluminum than the ones I used fiberglass. In the end, though, out of convenience I tended to use my gloss FRP profile for all the hardgoods, and a standardized polyester fabric profile for anything fabric related. 

FYI, I chose a bright-white high quality 600 denier poly fabric from Joann's for the testing substrate, rather than use t-shirt material. Under fluorescent light the shirts I had glowed, showing an optical brightener that might have influenced the ColorMunki.

The ColorMunki has a few quirks, though. First is that it requires two large (8x10+) substrate samples to work from. This adds to the expense of making profiles. The first sample is a generic color chart that is read back into the ColorMunki for a second pass. The second sample then "fine tunes" the profile. 

Some substrates produce really off-kilter results for the first pass, probably because of surface reflection. If this happens, the ColorMunki will reject one or more of the colors for the second pass, and you'll end up with an incomplete profile. It seemed to always be the same certain colors, brownish-reds as I recall. To complete the profile, I "faked" those colors by taping on a known good chip from a fabric sample. I then re-corrected the profile by making additional passes after that. Quite wasteful of substrates, but it worked.


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## Comicsans (Nov 7, 2012)

GordanM, was there a large difference between the polyester profile and the hard substrate profile?


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

If I want to make a Custom ICC profil for mugs, how can I do ? ahah


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Comicsans said:


> GordanM, was there a large difference between the polyester profile and the hard substrate profile?


The fabric and hardgoods profiles used different sub paper (TexPrint for fabric; ImageRight for hardgoods), and somewhat different printer settings because of it. I felt there was enough difference in the results to warrant separate profiles.

@Isaac11, for mugs I used the FRP profile. Both are glossy white, and both used the same paper (ImageRight) and printer settings.


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## paradepretty (Nov 22, 2013)

I found this link while looking for cleaning solution ... maybe it'll help? I'e never used Conde for anything before. 

Technical Support - Conde Systems, Inc.


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

GordonM said:


> @Isaac11, for mugs I used the FRP profile. Both are glossy white, and both used the same paper (ImageRight) and printer settings.


Do you know where can I buy FRP blanks for making my profile ?

Thanks


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

I tended to buy the 1x2' sheets from Coastal, as they offer free shipping when you order over a certain amount, as well as free shipping for any amount on certain holidays. But most of the suppliers have them, too. Coastal has (or used to have) a forum discount. 

Get the single-sided coated version. It's cheaper.

You can use a table saw to cut the sheets to size. Remember that because they're made of fiberglass, you should follow the same safety guidelines as when using any type of fiberglass material.

Edit -- This is the stuff: http://www.coastalbusiness.com/unisubfrpsublimationsheetstock-115x2351sidedglosssoldeach.aspx


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

Okay Gordon, thank you for all your advices !
If I'm only doing stuff like Mugs, PhoneCase, Rockphoto few mousepad I will only need 1 profile ?
What's your advice ?


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Because I had the ColorMunki, I had the "luxury" of making multiple profiles, so I could be picky. I found the fabric profile worked best with anything fabric, and the FRP profile worked well for all but a certain manufacturer of aluminum signage blanks. For that aluminum, transfer was best at somewhat reduced heat -- about 350-360 degrees. I made a special profile that matched those settings. 

Depending on the printer you use, the type of art you press, and your customers, you may find one generic profile works perfectly fine. I'd go that route first, before investing in or creating multiple profiles.


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## macman29681 (May 24, 2013)

mcpix said:


> As mentioned in my other post, I'm trying to create my own ICC profile. I have a local printer that is trying to help me, but I'm thinking I may need to get my own equipment to do this right.
> 
> Is anyone using a ColorMunki to create profiles for sublimation? How about the SpyderPrint? I know I could spend $1,200+ and get the X-Rite i1pro2, but I'd rather not go that far.
> 
> I also see people advertising profiling services, but after talking to another man that creates profiles and given my own problems, it seems like it is difficult to create a sublimation profile remotely.


If your buying sublimation inks why didn't you get an ICC profile from the company you bought your inks from? They should have put in the time and money to create the profiles you need for the different substrates that you intend to print on. I'm confused?


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## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

macman29681 said:


> If your buying sublimation inks why didn't you get an ICC profile from the company you bought your inks from? They should have put in the time and money to create the profiles you need for the different substrates that you intend to print on. I'm confused?


I can't speak to all companies, but when I set up my Epson 4880 with Artanium ink, I got one profile from Sawgrass and another one from Conde. Unfortunately, both profiles looked terrible. That's what led me to start this thread and begin researching making my own profiles.

Incidentally, I just finished making my first profile with my used i1 spectrophotometer and it looks great! I've only printed a few mugs and some Chromaluxe, but I'm really excited with how well they turned out. At last, photos are looking like they should!


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

That the point of doing custom icc profile 
Soon I will get my ColorMunki ! Excited ahah


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## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

macman29681 said:


> If your buying sublimation inks why didn't you get an ICC profile from the company you bought your inks from? They should have put in the time and money to create the profiles you need for the different substrates that you intend to print on. I'm confused?


There are _slight_ production differences between printers of the same model, so a custom ICC gets you a profile specific to your individual printer and not generic to your _printer model _which all users of the same model would share.

My experience working with a couple of different vendors a decade ago is that a generic profile made on very high end equipment can still be better than a custom profile made on low end equipment.

The best profiles are custom profiles made on the best equipment.

In lieu of nothing else you need to have a profile so even a profile made on cheap equipment, if done correctly, should be better than having nothing.


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

I come back to you because I have to choose between the Colormunki or x-rite i1 one eye pro Rev1.
What's your advice ?


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## dus7 (Oct 18, 2012)

Creating accurate ICC profiles is difficult imo. Not because the software or equipment is hard to use, but because trying to get the color as close to perfect as possible is very difficult. Another thing is depending on your substrate, the profile may need to be different.

I use i1Profiler and the i1Pro 2 spectrophotometer to create ICC's. It's expensive, but came bundled with our efi Fiery stuff on another printer. The software is easy to use. Pantone, or spot color values weren't too hard to achieve, but CMYK was. Maybe because spot color info is sent to the printer and processed differently than CMYK.


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## mcpix (Jun 27, 2008)

I had the same choice to make between a ColorMunki and a used i1 Pro.
I chose the i1 Pro for a couple of reasons. 

First, the ColorMunki is a closed system. You can only use it with the ColorMunki software. With the i1 Pro I can use it with the i1 profiler software or if I eventually buy a RIP for my printer (which I'm looking into), I can use the i1 to fine tune my ICC profile, improve my grayscale output, reduce my ink usage, etc. I can also use it with other profiling programs (there are some open source profiling programs available for free).

Second, the ColorMunki uses a much smaller color sample to create the ICC profile. From what I've read it does a very good job, but the larger sample size of the i1 Pro should provide better results.

Finally, the ColorMunki sells online for about $459, and the used units on eBay sell for $300 - $365. I picked up my i1 Pro Photo (rev. D) for only $300. It was in perfect condition and came with the i1 Pro, i1 Profiler software and all the accessories to color balance not only my printer, but also my display, my camera and my scanner.

Here's a link to some good info on buying a used i1 Pro.
http://chorizo.wikispaces.com/How+to+buy+an+i1pro+on+eBay


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

Thank you for all your advice I did find someone who is willing to sold i1 Pro rev D but the price is too high (400€).
Will try to find other seller


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## Whittierink (May 21, 2013)

I use the munki and love it no problems evry profile I've made for the different printers is great haven't had one problem with colors sense I purchased it


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## GordonM (May 21, 2012)

Isaac11 said:


> I come back to you because I have to choose between the Colormunki or x-rite i1 one eye pro Rev1.
> What's your advice ?


If you're looking to own one, the X-RITE i1 is probably the better deal, if you can find it used. They pop up on eBay now and then for $250-350.

I never found anyone renting anything other than a ColorMunki, so if you don't need to own it, that would be the cheaper alternative. Profiles from the ColorMunki can be pretty accurate, but it takes additional passes beyond the initial two to do it. For fabric that's nothing, but for hard goods substrates, it can get expensive. 

Each successive pass improves the accuracy of the profile. How accurate you require depends on your need for faithful color rendition, your type of printer and the number of colors it uses, and what you're printing on. I also found the ambient temperature of the room I worked in affected the color. I tried to print in the morning, when the air temperature was more controllable (my printers and press were on a west-facing wall, and though the house was air conditioned, the temperature could still fluctuate quite a bit). 

A rented ColorMunki may be all you need, or it may not suffice for your work. In that case a used i1 can be a good investment.


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## Isaac11 (Feb 27, 2015)

Hello GordonM,

I just received my Colormunki !! 
I'm on OSX and I have a problem at printing my color List without color management with my ricoh SG7100DN.
I can't because it's shaded...
Check my screenshot

Thanks


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