# Help, whats the best option?



## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

Hi all. New so here's a Big Hello!

This is what I have. I am a firefighter and we are having shirts printed for our firehouse. The design has lots of detail and lots of different colors. I have been told that digital printing is the way to go, Plastisol inks and transfers are the way to go, yadda yadda yadda. HELLLPPP!!!

The design will be at least 12'' x 12'' on the back. My concern is that it doesnt look cheap and that it HOLDS UP! I cannot afford to sell 100 shirts and after 10 washings it look like a disaster... What is the best way to go with this? 

I have heard that the inks will wash out etc... My guy that is printing it is using a DTG brand printer with Dupont inks... that's about all i know. Can someone help! I have to get these done asap and dont want to screw up and make the wrong decision.. any input would be greatly appreciated!


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## Skinbus (Jul 2, 2007)

Which way you go could depend on the color shirt you're using. If it's a dark color, probably dtg or silkscreen would be the easiest. You should be able to get a decent price for having 100 pieces done. If it's a light color shirt, transfers may do just fine. I wouldn't go with transfers with a dark shirt. Too easily ruined by incorrect laundering. Good luck!


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

its a dark navy Gildan ultra cotton... if that helps......or was going to do the TNO Tornado brand... but really unsure how that shirt holds up in time... with the Gildan, i have some confidence.

any idea whats a fair price to pay per shirt.. with the design on bk and a small non elabrate design 3'' x 3'' on front pocket. (3 colors)

Also, Ive been told that doing Plastisol heat transfers would be better than digital.. Ugh! Just dont know who's right and who's wrong.


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## Skinbus (Jul 2, 2007)

I've never seen plastisol so I have no idea how they're done, feel or hold up to wear & tear. Having said that, I'd probably go with silk screen. I'm guessing but something tells me screen would be cheaper also. Anytime you apply ink of any type on a shirt, it's just that..on the shirt. Meaning it will wear off. Supposedly, DTG actually goes into the material of the shirt rather than lying on top so it should wear better over time. Unfortunately, I'm no expert but I think there's something here on the forum that gives the pros & cons of each application. It should be on the home page. Hope I didn't add to the confusion factor.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

This is on going question
1. many colors: 
Screen printer will charge on each color. They have to make screen(cost is $20, but I saw many are charging $40/ea) so if you have 6 color. set up charge will be around $150 minimum plus printing charge.
Need pro to print to match printing quality vs. DTG
DTG printing does not require set up charge but ink cost is high. Check this forum for pricing.
2. wash
Both are good on wash. Transfer is last thing you want to do.


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## proworlded (Oct 3, 2006)

I would recommend having screen printed custom transfers made. You will get a quality, long lasting product. The price will be determined by the size of the print, the number of colors, and the quantity.
DTG can also get very good results but depending on the equipment, the inks, and the experience of the company doing the printing you may, or may not, not get long lasting results. Also, there is no price advantage when printing larger quantities by DTG since each shirt costs the same to print. You may get a little price break with the quantity but there is no savings to the supplier.


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## uncletee (Feb 25, 2007)

In my opion, we are sublimaters( new word) uncletee. light colored shirts, you will blow away your dtg and screen print. If not either one will work. with sub I could do mugs, tiles and lots of stuff for the crew. always have a nice day uncletee.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

kkovardfd said:


> The design has lots of detail and lots of different colors.


How was the graphic prepared? Vector or Raster? both can produce different results. 



kkovardfd said:


> The design will be at least 12'' x 12'' on the back. My concern is that it doesnt look cheap and that it HOLDS UP! I cannot afford to sell 100 shirts and after 10 washings it look like a disaster...


Here is a DTG wash example..

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/belquette/t143451.html



kkovardfd said:


> I have heard that the inks will wash out etc... My guy that is printing it is using a DTG brand printer with Dupont inks... that's about all i know.


So you have a printer already?? Get a sample printed and do a wash test. If you don't have the time then ask for a reference and give them a call and ask about the print. Your printer should have at least 3-4 reference off the top of his head that you can call. Honestly more..but should be able to give you someone that is happy with his prints. 

There is nothing you can do about the shirt itself as you can see the post above the tshirt started to fade but the print was still good.


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## brandedclothing (Feb 17, 2010)

For 100 Garments you would want to go with screen printing. It will last the longest and be the most affordable for you. 

The Gildan 2000 (ultra cotton) is a nice shirt and you won't be disappointed with it. 

For printing price, ours for example would be $3.85 per shirt, and a $35 set up fee for this job. Your total price per item would be $7.85 including the shirts. Depending on your area, pricing may be a little higher, but you really shouldn't have to pay any more than about $9.00 per shirt for screen printing. 

Just call a local professional shop and get some pricing. Don't go to any online site because you will pay a lot more. 

Screenprinting doesn't just sit on top of the garment. Plastisol ink bonds with the fibers, and will last as long as the shirt will. On a dark shirt with a white underbase and many colors it may feel a little thick. If you want your image to have a softer feel to it, you can always request water based inks, but you won't be able to match colors exactly. 

DTG will hold up for a long time, but will be more expensive than screen printing for this large of an order.

Transfers are for one or two garments. They hold up and feel really nice on light garments, but dark ones will have a rubbery feel to them and will crack after a number of washes. 

Definitely go with screen printing for your order. This isn't just my opinion. It is the best option.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I think before anyone can answer the O.P., the artwork or something similar needs to be shown. As already stated, screen printing (and plastisol transfers which is basically screen printing on a release paper) pricing is based on the number of colors. If the design can be done in 4 colors or less (or as a 4-color process job), screen printing might be the preferred method. If the design is more than 4 colors, then DTG printing might be a good alternative. But no one can really make an educated decision without seeing the artwork. Just my two cents.

Mark


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

How the heck do I put my image on here.. I will show my artwork if I can figure out how to get it on here... That way we all can see the work and see what's the best method...


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

kkovardfd said:


> How the heck do I put my image on here.. I will show my artwork if I can figure out how to get it on here... That way we all can see the work and see what's the best method...


http://www.t-shirtforums.com/forum-information/t11206.html


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Just below the box where you type in is a button labeled Go Advanced. Click on that and scroll down to click on the Manage Attachment button. That will allow you to upload it.

Mark


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

Here is the artwork. Opinions? oh, and also. I went to my guy that does DTG printing today and printed a smaple shirt. The image was a bit small on the back, but the whole image was overall dark. It was like the contrast and brightness needed to be adjusted and reprinted... anyways, take a look at the art. see what you think.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks DA/KAT.


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## allamerican-aeoon (Aug 14, 2007)

brandedclothing said:


> For 100 Garments you would want to go with screen printing. It will last the longest and be the most affordable for you.
> 
> The Gildan 2000 (ultra cotton) is a nice shirt and you won't be disappointed with it.
> 
> ...


I see all have their own point. All are right. I am sure screen printers and DTG printers are reading this post. I am not promoting DTG. Just address what I believe. I have been screen printer for 29 years. DTG seller for 6years.
Easiest way is 
Question to you.
1. Screen printers: How much will you charge on Fireman's job?
2. DTG printers: how much will you chage for 100 shirts?
PS: Print visual quality: DTG is better. Wash = equal.
Price? = don't know yet, soon they will answer. Again, I am not promote DTG here. Just want to talk facts.
He did not mention how many colors yet. (let's say 6, if more colors forget screen print)
Making each screen will take 20-30 minutes each (film, expose, wash, correction, taping) = 2-3 hours for prep. Set up printer manual 30-45 min. Automatic 45-60 min is normal. Screen printer will start job 3 hours later.
Printing: Manual press:2 minutes per shirts = 200 minutes. Automatic: 5-8 sec per shirts = 10-15 minutes = but few people involved.
DTG: white shirts normal size = 2 minutes max = 200 minutes later they go home. = less labor/time. = less cost = Plus no mess,
Screen printing: after job done, ink clean, screen clean, squeegee clean, pallet clean= 60minutes minimum = time is money = DTG should be cheaper when it comes 100 shirts.
Bottomline: go with lower price.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

The way my printer makes it sound is that DTG printing is longer bc it takes forever to print a shirt in the printer... at 100 shirts, he makes it sound like DTG would be more.. maybe i misunderstood.. he is supposed to get back with me tomorrow on pricing. I am thinking he is going to charge me around $15 a shirt. Too much?


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

kkovardfd said:


> The way my printer makes it sound is that DTG printing is longer bc it takes forever to print a shirt in the printer... at 100 shirts, he makes it sound like DTG would be more.. maybe i misunderstood.. he is supposed to get back with me tomorrow on pricing. I am thinking he is going to charge me around $15 a shirt. Too much?


Was your image created in Photoshop?? this could be one of the reasons it printed too dark. 

Depending on his equipment, yes time is a factor especially for over-sized prints. Some machines run faster than others but that doesn't mean that its any better than one of the older machines that has a converted to better ink delivery system. 

$15 including the shirt??


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

kkovardfd said:


> The way my printer makes it sound is that DTG printing is longer bc it takes forever to print a shirt in the printer... at 100 shirts, he makes it sound like DTG would be more.. maybe i misunderstood.. he is supposed to get back with me tomorrow on pricing. I am thinking he is going to charge me around $15 a shirt. Too much?


 
For 100 shirts we'd charge around $12-14 each including the Gildan 2000 shirt depending on the actual ink usage and the time frame for delivery (want it faster = pay more, can wait until we print darks normally during the week = pay less).

Our prices match our area though so your printer might come out higher or lower depending on the current case price for shirts available to him, shop costs and labor costs.

We just finished a similar run of shirts on contract where the client provided the garments, each print was 10x12 and cost the client $9.50 per print.

A 4 color plastisol transfer from a national source would cost over $5.00 plus shipping, a 6 color plastisol transfer would cost over $7.00 plus shipping both at 100 count orders and there would still be the issue of putting the transfer onto the garment either by your printer or yourself if you own a heat press.

Keep in mind we are talking about 1 print on the shirt; the possible cost for adding a left chest print has not been shown and it would vary based on your artwork and image size.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

FatKat- Actually the image was created in GIMP and then converted to a Photoshop image. IS this why it is overall dark? Is it able to be lightened? They said they could lighten in up.. maybe mess with the color adjustments in CS4. ???


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

kkovardfd said:


> FatKat- Actually the image was created in GIMP and then converted to a Photoshop image. IS this why it is overall dark? Is it able to be lightened? They said they could lighten in up.. maybe mess with the color adjustments in CS4. ???


Yes, this could be the reason of the overall darkness. The printer would need to adjust his settings in his photoshop nothing you need to do. Did you add more to the design in PS? Or just converted it to a PS document for your printer? I am not too familar with gimp did you save the document as a PS document or did you import it directly into PS and saved it as a PS document.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

GIMP is an online free editing program... really awesome,should check it out. i created in GIMP and there in GIMP it has the ability to save as a PS image... i can save it as about anything... eps, jpg, etc.. lots of different options.


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

kkovardfd said:


> GIMP is an online free editing program... really awesome,should check it out. i created in GIMP and there in GIMP it has the ability to save as a PS image... i can save it as about anything... eps, jpg, etc.. lots of different options.


Oh, I know what it is just never worked with it before. I have Corel and Adobe so that is why I don't need it but hey you can't beat free.

You are really concerned about these tshirts totally understandable. I suggest you get another sample (doesn't have to be the particular size you want) just big enough to look at the design. Of course offer to pay, I don't like having to reprint samples but if the customer is not happy we have to get it right,but we can't do it for free.


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## vinyl signs (Dec 26, 2007)

The problem with these open source programs is the color management. You need to understand color management to get a good result.


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## printerjohn41 (Mar 15, 2011)

for 100 shirts. screen print > it will look the best by far and will be less expensive. you may be able to reduce the number of imprint colors with halftones to save.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

I got an offer today to do them in 4 color process with a spot color which is White ink. Advises that the colors will pop this way. 4 color process? is this screening? lost. sorry.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

Four color process can be either screen printing or any type of digital printing. It just means that they are going to cyan, magneta, yellow and black inks in order to create all the other colors. The white is either just an underbase or could also be a white highlight as well.

Mark


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## proworlded (Oct 3, 2006)

kkovardfd said:


> I got an offer today to do them in 4 color process with a spot color which is White ink. Advises that the colors will pop this way. 4 color process? is this screening? lost. sorry.


4 color process is screen printing and usually requires a setup charge. Most experienced screen printers offer this type of printing.


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## inksolman (Jan 19, 2009)

Screenprinting is king, period. 
This from a guy that is an expert on both. Screenprinting for 22 years, and selling, developing, and working on Kornit and brother printers for years. I have all those options here in house, but if it were my personal shirt, it would be screen printing all the way. Having said that, there are only a few printers that can screen print great quality designs, and that would be the downfall here.


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## Bob Wellen (Jan 25, 2011)

Send it to Pony Express in either Dallas or Fort Worth. They are excellent screen printers. WE think that that you can either do thin in four color process or index printing using appro 8 to 9 colors.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

Bob. Hey. I have actually got a quote from Pony. They were kind of on the expensive side, but that was only for 50 shirts... I am up to close to 100 now.. so maybe it will be a little break.

I have a guy that is close to Dallas that is wanting to do it in Plastisol... Says that the colors will pop and will stay through washings with proper care. 

I am going to start a new thread on my experience with DTG printing... I'd love to hear some input on what is going on with this... 

TO ALL- Thank everyone so much for the help thus far!!! I appreciate it so much!


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

anyone know of someone in the Dallas TX area that does amazing DTG printing? Pony Xpress printing's web site looks remarkable... could try them.. any other suggestions?


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## suzy q (Nov 18, 2009)

dont use sublimation for these shirts i am a retired fire fighter and do screen printing,dtg & sublimation, if you go the sub route you will be using polyester shirts which can melt to any one wearing them from fir ,ambers etc... we would not allow this at my department and i wont make them for fire fighters to weare on duty.fire fighting is dangerous by it's self no need taking any chances, hope this helps.


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## kkovardfd (Mar 15, 2011)

Suzy- thanks for the advise. I dont even know what sublimination is.. Nor at this point want to know.. I am going to have them screened and put on either a Gildan 2000 or port and company essentials 100 %cotton- I have been told this would be the best route to go-- holding up the longest..


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