# Black on Black Question



## Chris (Sep 19, 2005)

I know this sounds completely odd, but will black ink show up on a black shirt? 

The reason why I ask is because one of my initial promotions will be to give such a shirt to a member of the community that I'm catering to. Basically he loves black on black cars (one in particular) and he'll give me more good press (worldwide) than anything else if I can pull it off. He also works for a well-known publication that I may want to advertise with down the line.

So does anyone have any experience with this? I won't be doing a lot of black shirts so I may purchase some @ retail and do this as a one-off project-- doesn't leave a lot of room for error.

Thanks!


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## jdr8271 (Jun 16, 2005)

Black ink would show up on a black shirt, although you would have to get really close to the shirt to see it. The reality is, that black shirts are actually really really dark gray.

My suggestion would be to print the black on the shirt, and put a very thin dark gray line around the design.


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## Decal_Designs (Jul 4, 2005)

I'm sure it would work since the chance that the black shirt, and the black ink being exactly the same color are slim. It would be very hard to see though. Maybe if your design were shiny, perhaps a vinyl transfer? How complex is your design?


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## cameo (Nov 27, 2005)

Excellent suggestion. I'd do the same to make sure the outcome was sharp.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

As people have said it will be visible, but maybe not visible enough.

Would using a really dark grey work for you? Using a grey you may well be able to find a balance between still "feeling" black on black, but having some visibility (I've seen it achieved in goth shirts).


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## Chris (Sep 19, 2005)

Thanks for the replies--

Unfortunately Solmu, it won't work if it's a really dark grey shirt. The idea is black/black and there is no room for fudging.. I've thought about it (using a pigment/tie-dye type shirt) but nothing really clicks.

Ideally, the design is just basic text so I'd like it to be subtle.. "visbile but not visible enough" is actually what I'm shooting for here. Maybe I should've been more specific-- what black ink would you recommend to produce a "slight" gloss effect on a black shirt?

It's extreme, and not the quality that most screeners would shoot for, but it's going to give me a massive amount of exposure in the coming year- I just want the words to show up in a certain light (even under a sport coat) and be done with it; clarity is a non-issue as you can't be near this individual without seeing exactly what he's wearing.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Sorry, I should have been more specific - I meant a really dark grey ink, not shirt. Dark grey ink on a black shirt looks like a lighter black (which it is really), but shows up somewhat.


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## Arcanum (Nov 30, 2005)

Chirs, my advice to you would be to use a service (like CP) that would allow you to make one shirt for yourself only. I did a black-on-black print design for a magazine a few months back and it turned out really well. But it took a lot of trial and error with the printer. Luckily we are really good clients and he was willing to experiment with us.

But ... its been my experience that black ink (whether on paper or fabric) does not equal the exact same tone as what it is printed on. Even if bpth are "technically" 100% black. 

Oh ... and to avoid confusion ... the magazine ad was on white paper but we ended up using a matte process for the background and a glossy overlay for the image. You should get the same effect if you use a glossy heat transfer method like some suggested above.

Hope that helps.


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## DickTees.net (Apr 5, 2005)

I have a NIN shirt I bought over 10 years ago that is black ink on a black shirt. The design is raised a little so that it stands out a little better.


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## 3oats (Sep 11, 2005)

Years ago I had a shirt with the black, but I think it was more like a felt transfer. It had more raised and no shine... I don't usually care much for shine. Oscar


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## grumpster (Sep 12, 2006)

My two cents worth here. You could try either a slim off white or grey border around the image to make the black stand out a little. You see that effedt on the freeways some times. They put down a black strip of line, then white just inside it.

The other thing I can think of if vinyl. There is quite a variety of stuff out there to choose from. you'd need to find some one with a vinly cutter to do it for you, but that shouldn't pose much of a problem here.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

print a high density black. Thsi will raise the ink off the shirt making it more visible. Play with the dwell time of the shirt in the dryer. I believe the longer the ink is in the heat the more shiny it will look. I honeslty cant remember to be sure its either 
longer heat dwell time = glossy print
or
longer heat dwell time = matt print
Just do a couple of tests.

Also if you use a lower mesh frame and dump more ink it will shine a little more than normal and should help to get the look your after


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I think black vinyl is perfect for this. The texture is different from the fabric so it absorbs and reflects light completely opposite of the shirt. As the shirt fades the lettering becomes more visable...a reveal in time.


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## STURspoon (May 8, 2006)

I did something like this just to learn how to print screen with plasti's and it came out realy cool  just my 2 cents.

O I read a lil bit of the post befor I posted but ill say it anyways.When I did it the ink reflects light and the shirt didnt so like I said it came out pretty cool.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

This thread is over a year old. I'm curious now - did you end up doing this Chris? What method did you decide on?


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## October (Aug 18, 2006)

Another option to make black show on black would be to add a clear gloss (can use lycra base and really cook it in the dryer), which will shine up the black and make it more visible OR, just add a touch of expanding ink (puff additive) to lift the ink slightly - not too much though or the ink will go grey,
Cheers


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## burningburd (Nov 4, 2006)

okay while we are on the subject. . . what if I wanted to put a, i dunno, say. . . a red print on a red shirt? you think that would be about the same prosess. . . or blue on blue, and so on and so forth?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

burningburd said:


> okay while we are on the subject. . . what if I wanted to put a, i dunno, say. . . a red print on a red shirt? you think that would be about the same prosess. . . or blue on blue, and so on and so forth?


It depends. It's largely the same, but black is a more absolute colour, so it's not necessarily the same (i.e. black is the hardest to do this with - it's the end of the line). You can't really darken the black ink to make it blacker than the shirt to show up better. But red on red you could print print a darker red on a lighter red, ditto blue on blue. Obviously if you want the subtle red on red effect you don't want a huge colour difference, but since you can darken it up just a _little_ bit it's a lot easier to make it 1) Visible, but 2) Subtle.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

hey guys, you know with these new clear vinyl transfers you would get a perfect color match.  .... it changes according to the light and angle etc.


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## billpyle (Dec 19, 2006)

How would you go about getting a print result like this?


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

billpyle said:


> How would you go about getting a print result like this?


hard to see. 
Is that just one color print and the lighting makes it look like 2 colors/faded look or is it a 2 color faded look print ? if it is a a faded look, there are now new plastisol transfers that are a Hot Split that can achieve that. 

sorry, hard to see it.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

billpyle said:


> How would you go about getting a print result like this?


I'm guessing it's either vinyl or (more likely) high density plastisol printing (bulletproof printing). It's really hard to tell without feeling it/seeing it close up though.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I'm guessing it's either vinyl or (more likely) high density plastisol printing (bulletproof printing). It's really hard to tell without feeling it/seeing it close up though.


yeah, whatever it is I dont think it would be hard to emmulate.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

T-BOT said:


> yeah, whatever it is I dont think it would be hard to emmulate.


Definitely not. I took a look at some of the other stuff on that site, which is all screenprinted. So chances are it's just black plastisol on a black shirt, plain and simple.


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## billpyle (Dec 19, 2006)

Solmu said:


> Definitely not. I took a look at some of the other stuff on that site, which is all screenprinted. So chances are it's just black plastisol on a black shirt, plain and simple.


So to get a result like that I could just use black plastisol ink? Its not vinyl or anything like that? I'm still kind of new to the whole screen printing thing, so any help is appreciated. thanks.


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## TaylorTees (Nov 8, 2006)

on the TWLOHA web page.. the womens shirts are very fitted.. and have a great shape.. any idea where or who would carry these types of shirts??


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

billpyle said:


> So to get a result like that I could just use black plastisol ink? Its not vinyl or anything like that?


I think so, but I can't be positive: it is possible that it is vinyl.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

TaylorTees said:


> on the TWLOHA web page.. the womens shirts are very fitted.. and have a great shape.. any idea where or who would carry these types of shirts??


Any of the usual suspects: Bella, Alternative Apparel, American Apparel, Continental, etc.

Those specific shirts were printed on American Apparel.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

billpyle said:


> How would you go about getting a print result like this?


It looks like a foil transfer.

You screen print transfer adhesive or clear gel.

You can apply foil directly on HOT, fresh from the oven clear gel and just rub it on with a soft rag. 

Position foil on the transfer adhesive and use a heat seal press.

Peel both when cool. The foil layer sticks to the hot inks, then transfers to the ink as you peel off the support backing.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Hummm. i dont know about foil, it looks too faded and banged up. 

hard to see it, you could be right.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

Solmu said:


> I'm guessing it's either vinyl or (more likely) *high density plastisol printing* (bulletproof printing). It's really hard to tell without feeling it/seeing it close up though.


Not High density at all i dont think.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

T-BOT said:


> Hummm. i dont know about foil, it looks too faded and banged up.


I'm thinking an 'oil slick' style film. It's shiny so on a girl's chest and off to the side, so it doesn't reflect evenly.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

i think i need to up the lens on my glasses.  

yeah, if its the light angle that is creating that un-even look, foil it is. 

but its NOT a Density print For sure. That I know.


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## Byeline666 (Oct 21, 2006)

i have actually seen a lot of these sold and worn by bands and have done some experimenting with it as well.the ink seems to me more visible in certain lighting conditions and actually looks pretty cool with an over-sized design. 

if you are not happy with the results, i'd say add a pinch of white to the mix.


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## malibusurfer (Dec 21, 2006)

Try printing a clear gel with a thick stencil on an 86 mesh. The matte finish of the cotton against the shiny finish of the gel looks great together - we use this process quite often (today in fact - for some NBA tees). I've also seen one of our tshirt on tv and I could read the print well when the light hit it right. This process also works on other colored tees as well, you may also tint the gel to whatever color you want to push the end result towards.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

billpyle said:


> How would you go about getting a print result like this?



The printer joined the forums, so maybe we can get an exact answer now


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## malibusurfer (Dec 21, 2006)

The image in the link above looks like a foil application. This is also doable if you have a heat transfer machine (to transfer the sheet of foil after the adhesive is printed). OR...you could print an irridescent type of glitter or metallic ink.


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## XMetalLove2 (Jun 17, 2006)

Tonal printing is dope! If you want to do black on black, I suggest Shimmer black on Black shirt 

trust me you wont regret it.


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## BEatMaKeR (Aug 1, 2005)

I have a shirt that someone did using a black mettalic ink on a black shirt. Its definitely visible as the light shimmers a bit. Just a suggestion to anyone doing black on black designs.


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## ffokazak (Feb 23, 2006)

Black on black works greeat!
Print, flash print flash print flash. Done. Black looks fantastic on black, and i use it frequently. You dont need a vinyl transfer, it can be screen printed.


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