# Dark Garments 101: which colors require an underbase for screen printing?



## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

I need a crash course in understanding where the color begins and ends for dark garments, when considering the use of screenprinting technology (water-based). I want to be able to look at a colored garment and know without question that it will require an underbase for screenprinting.

The current colors I know will require this are: 

-black
-gold
-purple
-navy (blue)
-royal (blue)
-brown (chocolate)
-red
-green
-orange (like the fruit)

The colors I can't tell this for are your greys and lighter shades of the colors I've already listed. (This would range from pastels to faded-looking colors like those used by Life Is Good.)

Any help is appreciated!

AB


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I dont print waterbased yet I do know the inks are very transparent. In order to keep the saturation of color I would bet all inks would need an underbase without effecting the hue fo the color
Pretty much the same principals of plasticol inks for the most part.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks Fluid. 

I'm looking for a color guide or reference so that I will know for certain about the greys and lighter shades of colors from the bold color families I mentioned.

For example, will a lavendar tshirt require an underbase like a purple tshirt would? They are in the same color family, but lavendar is much lighter than purple.

AB


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

honestly that would depend on the ink being printed. 
Dark purple, brown, etc. would not need an underbase yet a litgh blue would. Red ink will darken slightly without a ub white and might be ok with the client unless your red needs to be a true red. Every color will be effected by the shirt color in a dif way. Some colors are more opaque than others.


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## T-BOT (Jul 24, 2006)

With plastisol transfers you can produce opaque results on darks basically 2 ways. Thicker Ink alone (or even THIN ink spread with some type of ink formulation) or with a White Base. Thicker again...I think.

If its a 2 color design and 1 of the colors is WHITE for example, just make the White color screen for the entire design and not for the white area only. I think this is how it works but Im not an expert in the actual screen printing end. That's one of the reasons why I joind this board.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

AB's trying to figure out whick colors will work without an underbase. too many variable to make a list.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Hmm...and I thought this was easy as 1-2-3.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I wish is was. Would make training a lot easier


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Was just bumping to ask if anyone has a more definitive answer on this?

Thanks!


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

As Richard said, there isn't a more definitive answer.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Solmu - thanks, but there has to be some process in which to follow when it comes to screenprinting.  

I will mention that I reached out to a couple of screenprinters today to find out how they decide this. This seemed to be the logical thing to do.

I received a reply from one stating that they underbase every color tee *except* white and natural. I'm waiting on the reply from the other.

AB


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

again it all depends on the art. A lot of expierenced artists and printers utilize the shirt to darken the inks printed. If you want a simple answer that will limit your skills and knowledge, all colors pther than
white
athletic gold
Gray
Metallic inks and a lot of specialty inks do not need an underbse, everything else does.


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

AdriaticBlue said:


> Solmu - thanks, but there has to be some process in which to follow when it comes to screenprinting.


There are _processes_, but processes aren't easy answers.



AdriaticBlue said:


> I received a reply from one stating that they underbase every color tee *except* white and natural. I'm waiting on the reply from the other.


That's total overkill. If they're telling you the truth (and not just simplifying the reality) I'm pretty worried for them.

The fact is it's largely just common sense. Printing dark inks on a pale blue? No worries. Printing light colours on maroon? Use an underbase. Doing mid colours on a mid colour (light red on gold for example)? Do a test swatch.


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Solmu said:


> There are _processes_, but processes aren't easy answers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can see your points Solmu. 

I've now asked a total of 4 water-based ink screenprinters this question instead of stopping at 2 after thinking more about this. These are all companies I've contacted for basic pricing on their water-based ink screenprinting services to decide on who to consider for services.

Thus far, 2 of 4 have replied and I've already posted the answer to one.

The second company replied today and they advised that it is not possible to print an underbase at all using water-based ink screenprinting technology. They also suggested I consider using a screenprinter who utilizes non-PVC plastisol inks.  This was not a plan/consideration but I'm open to learning about it.

Nevertheless, I'm thrown for a loop because with my initial post here, as well as my email to all 4 companies, I made certain that I asked this color & underbase question based on *water-based ink* screenprinting services only, not plastisol ink.

To have 2 companies reply who both do water-based printing services with two different answers is interesting.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

> To have 2 companies reply who both do water-based printing services with two different answers is interesting.


 this is due to lack of knowledge on the part of one of them or both. Its easy to learn how to print for the most part. To kn0ow everything about what you do is anothe and to want to learn and stay up to date is even another issue. The basics are easy to learn and a lot only know the basics.

Waterbased inks are a dif ballgame since the inks are transparent. essentially think of them as watercolors. Can you paint red watercolor paint on a sheet of brown paper and it stands out real vibrant and red? I dont think you can.
Same principal with t-shirts and wasterbased inks


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## renwick (May 16, 2006)

what about high opaque coloured inks for dark tees?


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I have little knowledge in waterbased inks yet I would think the high opacity inks still wouldnt be opaque enough to print directly on a "dark" shirt without an underbase.


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

Here is a pretty good article that pretty much says what I did as well as other stuff. Might help to give you a better understanding
ScreenWeb | What Color Will It Be?


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## tdeals (Dec 13, 2006)

Thank you Fluid, I'm reading this article you shared now. 

AB


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

Fluid said:


> Waterbased inks are a dif ballgame since the inks are transparent.


Only the transparent inks are transparent. The opaque inks are opaque (or at least mostly...). When you're printing with waterbased inks you need to mind which ink type you use for which job (and whether or not you need an underbase will depend on the usual things that also affect plastisol - do you want the colours to be true, does it need to look flat or do you want it to appear thin, etc. etc.).


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

AdriaticBlue said:


> Solmu - thanks, but there has to be some process in which to follow when it comes to screenprinting.
> 
> I will mention that I reached out to a couple of screenprinters today to find out how they decide this. This seemed to be the logical thing to do.
> 
> ...



Since DTG uses waterbased inks, I follow the same rule with the exception of natural colors (unless the images is all black).

The only colored shirt we don't underbase is Whites.
Also while printing with waterbased Inks you will notice the amount of underbase will also affect the colors of the image.


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