# So People print for free now aday huh?



## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Woohoo. wow I apparently don't know market very well lately...

Client wanna supply own shirt, want large print on shirts, 48 shirts and I said $3.50ea and there reply is .. Oh that's way to high!

They do mention that on my site I give 48 shirts with print for $4 and I said yes that right but, aint large print and is kinda a gimmick to get other jobs down road from client.

Oh here is best part, apparently they thing digital printing is zero labor and I just rake in money?

I pretty much gave them a peace of my mind, told them I don't work for free ...

Seems like they know better bargain place than me that will do these jobs for free, is this true?


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## stone hawk (Aug 14, 2008)

Hey I agree people think dtg printing is a piece of cake, they don't realize the cost of ink and if and I mean a big if your printer decides to cooperate! I have a person who wants a price on contract printing and they supply the shirts, red ones of course with a picture on front. I am not sure what price to give, I need work!


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

I dont need the work, and yea issue is they don't realize cost in doing this stuff..

Got plenty of people pay alot more and are more than happy : )


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

Pricing objections are really the customer challenging your value proposition.

To answer this problem you have three choices...
1. Lower your price until your customer agrees that the value is there and buys. 
2. Build up the value until the customer agrees and then buys.
3. Fail to do either of the above and lose the job. 

Show the customer the value in what you are charging and you will be more successful converting these challenges into sales in the future. Not always, but more than you used to! 

"I understand how you feel, it sounds like alot of money... but when you look at what it takes to get this job done the way you want you will agree that it is not as easy or cheap as it first seems!"

Then roll into this...

-Art work... separations, films, screens, emulsion, exposure unit, washout...
-Time it takes to produce the screens & set up the job on the press... registration
-Equipment & Infrastructure investment: Computers, Software, Press, Exposure unit, Washout Booth, Chemicals, Screens, Pressure washer, etc.. It all cost alot of money... just so you can make $3.50!
-Overhead: Rent, Utilities, Insurance, Advertising, Consumable Shop Supplies, and on & on!

The guy may think that all you are doing is pushing a button and feeding a shirt into a printer. DTG printers cost $15-20K! They have maintenance (print heads, maintenance kits, etc..) which costs $1500/yr at least! All so you can make $3.50. 

If you go into all that and the guy still doesn't get it then you are better off not working with them in the first place. The cheap bastard customers are always the *****iest and highest maintenance PITA's. 

If they cannot appreciate the VALUE in your professionalism and skill...PLUS the investment/commitment you have made to be in this business then sayonara!! Give them the name of a local competitor that you hate, and tell the customer that you heard that he was doing work like this for $1 a shirt! Then laugh (on the inside) while your competitor makes no money and has to deal with this A-Hole!


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

jiarby said:


> Give them the name of a local competitor that you hate, and tell the customer that you heard that he was doing work like this for $1 a shirt! Then laugh (on the inside) while your competitor makes no money and has to deal with this A-Hole!


SO YOU'RE THE GUY THAT KEEPS SENDING THEM TO ME!!
just kidding 

well said Glenn!


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## Clan Co (Mar 15, 2010)

very well said Glen. this is the type of customer that will not be happy with it anyway. imaginary beefs just because they think you overcharged. can be more damaging to your business in the long run. People talk and they don't always tell the truth. send them on with a smile and "sorry we couldn't meet your needs". 

In the list of top ten reasons businesses fail, being so happy anyone would hire you that you will do whatever it takes, is like number 4 (I think) well in the top ten. Chose your customers wisely


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## CanExplorer (Apr 8, 2007)

Clan Co said:


> very well said Glen. this is the type of customer that will not be happy with it anyway. imaginary beefs just because they think you overcharged. can be more damaging to your business in the long run. People talk and they don't always tell the truth. send them on with a smile and "sorry we couldn't meet your needs".
> 
> In the list of top ten reasons businesses fail, being so happy anyone would hire you that you will do whatever it takes, is like number 4 (I think) well in the top ten. Chose your customers wisely


I agree... go to find your real customers. We are doing business, not just for fun.


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

I actually have a PDF map, address, & phone number of one of my local competitors on my desktop. I'd print it out and hand it to the dude saying... 

"This is the guy you need... If he can't do it for <insert crazy price here> then you can come back here for some blank coro and a sharpie marker"

Usually about signs rather than shirts... 

I keep a "DIY SIGN KIT" next to my desk... a Sharpie taped to a Blank Coro. The price $4! Sold a couple too!


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## stone hawk (Aug 14, 2008)

Thats too funny Glenn!! I think I need to have a paintbrush and a small bottle of ink handy for my customers!


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## jiarby (Feb 8, 2007)

Maybe a couple squeeze bottles of that puff paint from Michaels for a shirt whiner.


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## Clan Co (Mar 15, 2010)

very interesting


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## IYFGraphics (Sep 28, 2009)

Very well said Glenn.....and lets not forget his "print ready" art that he stole off the net or from another printer that has a watermark and he insists it's ok for you to use it, of course the file is only 20kb and blown up to 6" it's jagged and pixelated but he says you can fix it should only take 10 min. LOL!


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## Printzilla (Mar 22, 2007)

mrbigjack50 said:


> Woohoo. wow I apparently don't know market very well lately...
> 
> Client wanna supply own shirt, want large print on shirts, 48 shirts and I said $3.50ea and there reply is .. Oh that's way to high!


LOL - I must be too high as well, as that is exactly what I would charge.


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

amen brother : )


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

3.50$ sounds very reasonable for DTG, large front print. 
is this also on dark garments? if so then that's seems like a great deal!


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

Glenn ! You read all of our minds ! I think a lot of people have in their heads screening charges from the 90's and do not realize that nowadays our materials and ink is more expensive. Not to mention how far we have come as professionals - the quality and techniques have vastly improved. Those guys starving for business charging next to nothing working out of their garages are killing us !


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## gerry (Oct 4, 2006)

people are funny, i just quoted a sign job this morn for 225.00 ,The guy says another guy in town will do it for 150.00..so i suggested he deal with him .. the dude comes back and asks if i can do it for 175.00 dollars, I say "how about 230.00 dollars" the guy laughs a bit and says he'll go with 225.00. ok great i think..then he asks if we can install it too... I sez "sure...for 120.00" well we get off the phone and am waiting to hear back from him, and if I do he will be paying up front and I wont get started until the cheque clears.
There is no way i will turn this shop into minimum wage work!!
Stick to your guns guys.


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## ratdaddy (Sep 25, 2009)

I look at getting jobs like a screen. I let the trouble makers and hasslers pass on by. I only do business with the ones who value what I do and make my job fun to do. So I lose a few jobs here and there....so what, I'm still as busy as I want to be.


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

I am with you Rat !


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## Dennis Graves (Apr 27, 2009)

I had a good one a couple of weeks ago, I told him he would never find it for the price he was looking for.

Here was his request:

A customer orders the shirt, my robot art director creates the 300dpi artwork and sends you an email with the customer name+address, product style (black on white, and at a higher price, white on black, american apparel basic 2001 crew with relabeling aka 1-color print on the inside of the collar), and what "word" or words the product is, in a url-- simply click and get the custom artwork.

My per-unit cost ceiling is $7.50 per unit, including drop-shipping services. i want the most basic post office soft envelope possible, and will handle shipping through my own USPS account.


I told him a blank AA was $5-$6.50 so there was no way he was going to find it printed, relabeled and drop-shipped one-at-a-time for $7.50. I gave him the option to drop-ship me the the blanks and work out a printing deal.

I never heard back. I always wondered if somebody else met his price.

Dennis Graves


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## taglessthreads (Sep 16, 2006)

I do not think they ever get the prices they are looking for - I think they give up and realize they cannot afford it ! I had the same situation with a guy that wanted all AA - all water based/discharge ink-custom tags- and sewn labels on the sleeves - he wanted them for 7.00 for only 50 !


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## tiroloca (Mar 24, 2010)

Im new at this....not more the 10 days....I ready did my first job and post it yesterday and be honest....I give price to my client before I deal with the print....and thinking it will be easy for is a digital print and what trouble or time that will give me, i give really cheap price, compare with the price Im looking at here in this side .....and affter I did the job I visualize I was totaly wrong....is not that easy and take a lot of time....treat the shirt, dry the shirt, print the shirt, dry again the shirt, time for upload in the board, waiting the maching upload the art.....all this thing take your time and I think your time have a price, or not ....client always will push to get thing really cheap, and always will tell you they found another place where they can get it done for less....in this bussines you have to be like a poker player....and dont fall so ofend in the client bluffing


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

It basically comes down to time. Do you... as a single machine operator want to push the button 20 to 30 time per hour and make minimum wage? Machine costs money, Ink... money, shop and taxes ...Money. Create stuff you like, help people who appreciate the stuff you can do. If a guy comes in trying to jack down prices...ask them what they do for a living. I can guarantee if you ask them if they will freelance their job for a lot less than the price their boss pays them, they will say "it's just not worth my time"


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Thing that blows my mind most is, when I do large quan. jobs which clients still nags for free shipping, they end up selling shirts for $25...
Apparently I am on wrong end of stick Haha. I gotta start selling t shirts with stupid sayings and sell them for $20 : )

For me time to do shirts ain't a huge factor because I got two other printers doing other jobs and I usually do 4 things at once.
When doing shirts, it is just a spurt in moment when I am upstairs and I got a sec. to press a button


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## equipmentzone (Mar 26, 2008)

Pricing correctly is an issue for any type of business. We tell our equipment buyers that they have to remember that they are not in business to print shirts. They are in business to make a profit. You need to properly figure out all your costs including overhead and labor and then factor in a profit figure. Neglecting to add a profit percentage into your prices will put you out of business very quickly. 

Harry
Equipment Zone


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## GLC (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey guys stay encouraged we can only do our best work and charge for it appropriately.

I have haggled prices a number of times  especially when I'm in a foreign country on holiday or in an an industry where I'm not too sure of what the cost should really be  ...or if I'm getting short changed. I was at the mechanic the other day getting the car sorted and my haggle mind switched on... I quickly reminded myself this is my car...my whole family gets into my car.... I don't want to just because of a few quid (or $'s) have the guy rush my car with the possibility of something going wrong. So I didn't say a word and told myself I'm paying for the quality of service and that is that. The truth be told hagglers will come and HAGGLERS WILL GO! Keep the poker face on and stick to your principles. 

Glenn said it try to express the value of what you do - they came to you for a job so in some ways they already realise that you can do something they cant. If after a little explanation they still don't want to pay - send them on there merry way ....and know thats one more time waster I don't have to deal with and if they do come back they know exactly where you stand...

Gerry (anon mouse) is a clear example of how it should be done 


--
Eze


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## appleg (Feb 8, 2010)

This guy actually wants me to do this for *free*. He's been a good client but this is ridiculous.


"We are looking for sponsors for our Pro Tennis Tournament, May 29 – June 6, 2010. I was wondering if you would be interested in providing product as a sponsor:



10 polo shirts, embroidered

40 T-shirts, 3 color printing (color?) front only

70 player T-shirts (front printing only) (2nd color?)

100 T-shirts, 3 color printing (3rd color?) Design #1 (front and back printing, back one color)

100 T-shirts, 3 color printing (4th color?) Design #2 (front and back printing, back one color)



Also, the USTA Pro Circuit is sending 95 T-shirts for ball kids that would need printing on the back only,

one color printing (white).



All the printing on the back of the shirts will be one color for sponsor logos.





I would appreciate it greatly if you could accommodate our request. Thank you again for your help with our past events. Also, we will be sending out bids soon for tournament T-shirts for 1 event in late April, one in early May, and 3 events during the summer."


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Isnt it the complete purpose of sponsors to pay for tournament expenses? The sponsors pay for the printing in return for advertising space.


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## appleg (Feb 8, 2010)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Isnt it the complete purpose of sponsors to pay for tournament expenses? The sponsors pay for the printing in return for advertising space.


That's what I always thought!


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> Isnt it the complete purpose of sponsors to pay for tournament expenses? The sponsors pay for the printing in return for advertising space.


that exactly how it normally works.

If they want you as a sponsor and want to do a trade off of advertising for the merchandise, that is different.
I've seen a few print shops as event sponsors over the years (along with the many other sponsors) they often did the printing (not supplying the garment) in exchange for advertising (logo included with other sponsors on all advertisements). 

If you are interested in that route, it's best to negotiate what is included. Depending on the event it maybe possible to have a booth to promote your company at the site.

nothing in life is free


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## zoom_monster (Sep 20, 2006)

This happens all the time. Your move is to find out how much it is to sponsor(different levels?) and offer to take that off of the price you would charge. This way the guy gets his shirts and you get advertising. The object is to know your costs and even them out with the benefits of getting the job and also comunicating to the client what your service is worth.

Ian


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## mrbigjack50 (Jun 9, 2008)

Sounds like you need some coke and a little bit of the Captain to get you stop laughing at that email.

Sponsors=payment for goods=this guys taking you for a sucker

Tell him you give him a discount but not do for free, personally I never found do sponsor crap to be worth jack, get maybe 1 or 2 penny pinchers out of it


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## red514 (Jul 21, 2009)

mrbigjack50 said:


> Sounds like you need some coke and a little bit of the Captain to get you stop laughing at that email.
> 
> Sponsors=payment for goods=this guys taking you for a sucker
> 
> Tell him you give him a discount but not do for free, personally I never found do sponsor crap to be worth jack, get maybe 1 or 2 penny pinchers out of it


depending on your location sponsoring events for the publicity can be very beneficial.
example: sponsor of a music festival = potential for many musician/bands/music labels wanting to produce merchandise

really depends on the cliental you are after.

i would not suggest "giving a discount" for no reason. instead be a base sponsor, minimal exchange of services for minimal advertising.
example; barter the prepress charges (or part of) for logo placement on an ad/flyer


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

zoom_monster said:


> This happens all the time. Your move is to find out how much it is to sponsor(different levels?) and offer to take that off of the price you would charge. This way the guy gets his shirts and you get advertising. The object is to know your costs and even them out with the benefits of getting the job and also comunicating to the client what your service is worth.
> 
> Ian


A pro USTA tournament and or series should be a contract not an e-mail asking for freebies. Nike would benefit if they supplied the gear but I dont think the screen printers logo is going to get much attention on the ball boys sleeve if its even allowed.


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