# Volusion seems to be my ecommerce winner.



## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Folks,
Been in the tee shirt biz for a year with a small home based operation. Have learned a great deal about printing, selling ect. with a great deal of trial and error and a lot of big help from the everyone on the t-shirt forum. Thanks again !!!!!!

My next step (which was the initial idea) is to jump into the ecommerce end of things with a line of clothing. I've already printed up a number of shirts and hoodies as trials and have had a great response from most people. So I've been doing tons of research on how to tackle the next step of opening up an online store and what options I should be considering, what options do I need, what should I be paying, ease of set-up, ect ect. As I dove into the research and read tons of entries on this site and others,with every question I had answered, it seemed to create 4 more additional questions. 

My research has taken me to the Volusion site and am strongly considering using their program. They are highly rated in a # of surveys and the quality of companies that use their set-up are beyond impressive (not the reason I'm leaning their way, but worth considering). 

They are offering an August $49 set up fee and a $29 a month for 20 items (also a 14 day free trial which should be a good test for set-up ease), which I'd like to be up to but not there yet. They offer a great deal of high end options, plenty of storage space, have solid security, get great reviews on their ease of set up ect. I looked hard at the free sites, but the more I looked at them the more difficulties I discovered in the ease of set and other challenges I was hoping to avoid jumping in new.
Curious what others might have found looking into jumping into the biz with a small line and comparing that to Volusion. I report back with what I find out thru the set up and hope I can add some help along the way.
Thanks ahead for any thoughts.
Joe


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Devil's advocate here with some thoughts.

1. Aren't they a relatively new company? What happens if they go under? How do you retrieve your product database?

2. Paying monthly for a service adds up. You are not going to be at 20 products forever. $500+ a year for a decent sized site is an extra expense you don't have if you buy your software and host it yourself.

3. This cost does not include building your site. That's going to be extra.


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## veedub3 (Mar 29, 2007)

I have to agree with Joe. I looked at Volusion early last year sometime and the high cost just did not make sense to me with all the other e-commerce solutions available. 

Katrina


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Joe,
Not trying to disagree, trying to gain insight. Like I said in my initial post, trying to wade thru the BS is difficult with all the info that is written in technical slang that most folks cannot figure out. 
You lost me on all 3 of your points of contention. 
#! You can buy your software? Isn't that what Volusion is providing? 
#2 Host it yourself ? How's that done?
#3 Cost does not include building your site? They provide a number of free templates. Won't I be building my site with these?
Sorry If I'm coming off a little confused, but it sounds like I'm missing a couple of concepts that these sites provide. Please enlighten me ?
Thanks ahead
Joe


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## jackieg (Dec 31, 2008)

Hi Joe, I actually have my site with volusion. I know little html but was able to do alot with their free template than I thought possible. They are a little pricy as far as packages, because what ended up happening was, yea you want the 20 products package, but, each size of each shirt counts as a product..so 20 fills up VERY fast and next thing you know you need to upgrade. Thats something that caught me by surprise. But other than that, they are super helpful. They have that chat tech support 24/7 and get very high ratings by other ppl who use them. I went with them because I am totally new to this ecommerce thing, and they have their own merchant account, so the whole process is streamlined with just them. No worrying about calling this one and that one to take care of a problem. 

Hope this helps =)


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Jackie,
Thanks for the input. The biggest frustration with diving into this process is the unbelievable amount of info you need to make a good decision. Volusion, like others in the field seems to cover a lot of bases, unfortunately, what bases do I need covered and the real options of covering them are beyond difficult to figure out.
As a potential buyer of a web-site, hosting-site and shopping cart, I want what everyone wants, a good looking site at a good price that is easy to operate for my buyers. 
The true frustration in the search for the best option for your own personal needs is the lack of transparency in filling your needs and really figuring out what you needs are for that matter. As you mention with Volusion each size is another product which eats into your 20 limit pretty fast. Opps we forgot to tell you that !!!! All you need to do is pony up another $25 a month and it's easily fixed. Boy does this make it hard to get real answers. 
I'll keep plugging away and report my findings for my particular needs.
Thanks again Jackie.
I look forward to hearing from anyone else who's set up a small store with a need 20 or less products to start out (20 doesn't factor in sizes).
Thanks ahead.
Joe


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

printdog77 said:


> Joe,
> Not trying to disagree, trying to gain insight. Like I said in my initial post, trying to wade thru the BS is difficult with all the info that is written in technical slang that most folks cannot figure out.
> You lost me on all 3 of your points of contention.
> #! You can buy your software? Isn't that what Volusion is providing?
> ...


Joe,

No disagreements at all. I looked at Volusion and i was just sharing things that made me decide not to go that route.

#1. You are not buying Volusion software, you are renting it. As long as you use their software, you will pay them a monthly fee. Unlike other carts like Cubecart,Interspire, etc. where you buy their software and its yours forever without recurring charges.

#2. You would host your purchased shopping cart like you host any other site; contact a hosting company like Godaddy, etc. and upload your purchased cart software there. Sure, you will still have to pay hosting charges, but the cost is a lot less than $500+ a year.

#3. Cost does include their free templates, but I am not impressed with them. Are you? Jackie was able to make it work for her. But their templates out of the box turn me off. 

#4. One more pet peeve I forgot to mention yesterday. Their community forum is closed to anyone who is not a paying customer of theirs. And when I say closed, I mean you can't even VIEW posts unless you have a store with them. Now, there may be a logical explanation for this, I just can't think of one. To me, it signals they are hiding something. And if you are the great company you make yourself out to be, then open up your forum and lets see what people are writing/complaining/praising about.


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Joe,
Thanks for you reply back, your answers helped, but I'm still limping along with finding out the direction to go to set up my store. My goal is to get it up and running by next week and am spending the next 4-5 full days plus to learn as much as I can. 
I've studied Andy C's Beginner's Guide to E-Commerce and picked up a number of good insights and overlapped some of those points with other research. Unfortunately, like most strings of posts, it lost it's direction and started to drift away from the original topic. 
At this point my thoughts are as follows.

#1 I need a Website/Shopping Cart that I can set up. You mention that Volusion's templates are not to impressive. I agree, but I'm trying to balance the possibility of my site not being that great out of the gate, with the other reality of not being able to get out of the gate or having to pay a big up front cost to get out of the gate. AndyC and Rodney, if I remember well, seemed to both like cubecart as a good option for not only the options, but the price ect. However, the more I've learned about that option the more I'm getting the feeling that someone with absolutely no web design experience, like myself, might be heading into a world of frustration and an inability to get a site up and running.
Any thoughts on my conclusions above are appreciated.

#2 Best I can figure out, I'll need to pay for a hosting site, either pay or use a earlier version of a website/shopping cart like cubecart to set up my site. Also I'm under the impression that I'll need to purchase some type of security plan to allow my site to take credit cards securely (under the impression Volusion included this as part of their fees). Curious if this last cost might be one that you indeed don't need to purchase. And lastly, what other costs I might not be aware of.
Thanks ahead Joe and anyone else, please jump in.
Joe


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## jackieg (Dec 31, 2008)

printdog77 said:


> Also I'm under the impression that I'll need to purchase some type of security plan to allow my site to take credit cards securely (under the impression Volusion included this as part of their fees).



That cost is NOT included with the package pricing. Their merchant accounts are a seperate deal.


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Jackie's right. No matter which direction you go, you'll have to set up your own merchant account. 

Some carts support paypal pro, where the credit card is processed directly on your site and the buyer never even knows paypal is processing the transaction. That may be the quickest, easiest way.

Have you looked at Shopify — Hosted e-commerce with style, in less than 2 minutes They are a more turnkey setup than Volusion. Also, if you don't mind using paypal as a gateway, Simple shopping cart for artists, designers, bands, record labels, jewelry, crafters - Big Cartel is also a simple turnkey operation.


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## krylonking (Aug 28, 2007)

splathead said:


> contact a hosting company like Godaddy, etc. and upload your purchased cart software there. Sure, you will still have to pay hosting charges, but the cost is a lot less than $500+ a year.


 I could be wrong but doesn't go daddy charge an extra cost for their shopping cart?? And ive seen less than stellar reviews regarding their hosting plans. I know it may be the first thing that popped in your mind but I didn't want anyone thinking they are the best or only solution.. 

Although I dont have one of my own. Except hostmonster which i am currently using and VERY impressed with. (not currently using for ecommerce however)


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Joe,
Thanks ahead for the input. I went on the shopify site and it looked pretty interesting. THe cost of $24/month and they also get 2% of each sale, didn't seem that prohibitive for a quick set-up and good looking web page that they show. As I looked closer and closer though and wanted to get more info things started to get a little fuzzy. First off, like many ecommerce sites they like to show off some of their customers better looking sites, but also do a great job of not telling you that to have a site like this would cost you big cash.

Shopify also does a great job of promoting their quick set-up with their "beautifully designed themes", but as far as I could find, they will not allow you to check out these "beautifully designed themes." I tried going into their blog for more info, but found this to be only set up in order of posting, without any themes listed. Seemed like another way to dodge some questions.

I'm hoping I'm not crossing into complete cynical syndrome, but other than forums like this there seems to be a pretty concerted effort of many of these companies to hide costs, to hide what the company actually does and doesn't do. I know you get what you pay for, but the biggest hurdle seems to be finding out exactly what you are paying for and what costs you'll need to add once you make the initial down payment.

I know in our line of business if we tried to operate in this fashion we wouldn't last to long and in the long run there's a lot of lessons to be learned on how to drive away customers. I'm still determined to get up and running by next week and look forward to anyone's help in this quest that seems to get tougher and tougher the more I dig.
Thanks again 
Joe


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

krylonking said:


> I could be wrong but doesn't go daddy charge an extra cost for their shopping cart?? And ive seen less than stellar reviews regarding their hosting plans. I know it may be the first thing that popped in your mind but I didn't want anyone thinking they are the best or only solution..



Yeah, they were the first name to pop up in my head. I didn't realize they even had a shopping cart. 3rd party one maybe?

Either way, you don't need to use their cart to use their ecommerce hosting solution. And there are a TON of hosting services. Most, if not all, of them will be able to host an ecommerce set-up.


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Joe,
Just checking back after dinner and want to thank you again for your help. Sitting down watching my beloved RED SOX and just witnessed a charge to the mound by Youkolis being hit by a pitch, followed by their manager being thrown a few batters later. What fun and emotion, maybe something the home 9 have been missing.

Up north we are finally getting a little heat after a summer of cool temps and non stop rain. I'm guessing the summer down south has been hot and really a bit envious. I'd love to continue to get your take on ecommerce options. I really appreciate your input and hopefully you'll keep them coming. Hopefully. you don't take my take on some of the options you've talked about as a negative. I'm still searching hard for a site that is great for a cost that is not over the top.
Thanks again for all your help.
Joe


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

I feel your pain, I really do. I believe choosing a shopping cart is the most difficult and critical decision one makes when deciding to have an online shop.



printdog77 said:


> I went on the shopify site and it looked pretty interesting. THe cost of $24/month and they also get 2% of each sale, didn't seem that prohibitive for a quick set-up and good looking web page that they show. As I looked closer and closer though and wanted to get more info things started to get a little fuzzy. First off, like many ecommerce sites they like to show off some of their customers better looking sites, but also do a great job of not telling you that to have a site like this would cost you big cash.


They do have a pretty good number of 3rd party themes you can buy. I recall them only costing $20-100 or so. Do a google search on 'shopify themes' to see the choices out there. Here are a couple I had bookmarked from before

Shopify - ThemeForest
Shopify Themes





> Shopify also does a great job of promoting their quick set-up with their "beautifully designed themes", but as far as I could find, they will not allow you to check out these "beautifully designed themes." I tried going into their blog for more info, but found this to be only set up in order of posting, without any themes listed. Seemed like another way to dodge some questions.


Here are the free themes Shopify Blog — Pixelsoup


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Just wanted to update everyone on my continued search for setting up a store. As the thread started out, my thoughts, after doing a lot of research (so I thought) was that Volusion would be a good option to start a store and test the waters. However, after getting feedback and finding out some of the info like # of products being hidden and other complaints it seemed they might not be the best option. I next have experimented with the shopify option that Joe from Splathead suggested and have experimented with their 30 day free trial offer.

Shopify seemed to have some good options like they host, ability to use paypal or set up a merchant account, you can use your own url, some basic templates to work with and the ability to supposedly change these with ease. The earlier attributes all seem to be a positive benefit. However, the ease of working with their templates to come up with anything that doesn't look beyond simplistic is just not possible. Shopify makes the claim of having a hosted ecommerce site in less than 2 minutes. Whatever that claim means, is beyond me. I actually got into a pissing contest with some folks in their forum and finally got to the bottom of what I was slowly becoming more and more aware of. The forum had great discussions on technical code design information, but provided little help for novices. After some pushing I finally had someone from shopify enter the forum and point out that they did indeed lack tutorials for neebies and that without knowledge of html or css code it would be almost impossible to set up my store.

As I went thru this process I truly felt like I was being played by a bunch of designers in the forum who just sit back and allow unsuspecting folks flounder and then jump into with the $1000-$2000 rescue to set up your store. I'm not against anyone making money, but are more than tired of being lied to. This forum is truly a breath of fresh air, but I'm still not up and running a month after my planned date.

I've been talking with a local developer and from what I'm being told, I'm looking at about $1500 for a half way decent site. Not a fun cirlce to be running around the past 4 weeks.


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## proto (Oct 13, 2008)

I skimmed all the responses in this thread, so I apologize if this has been covered. 

It seems like a lot of people evaluate e-commerce applications based on the appearance of other stores which use that application. IMHO, that is not a good approach. As you have discovered, no matter which direction you go, you will invest time, cash, or time and cash in making the site look the way you want. 

What IS important is, (a) does the application offer the functionality you need (solid checkout, product attributes, etc), and (b) most important, how is the ADMIN side of things? I looked at Volusion, and after 5 minutes using their admin tools I wanted to kill myself. Shopify, on the other hand, is a pleasure to administer (the only downside I have found is that managing multiple product attributes is a little cumbersome). Look at it this way: You only have to deal with the visual design once, but you have to use the admin interface every day. 

FWIW, I am using shopify, and I like it so far. I probably should point out that "so far" is not actually very far  We have not actually sold anything yet.. still getting set up (keep getting distracted!)

Chris


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Chris,
Thanks for you response and great to hear you are are up and running with shopify and it's working for you. I'm curious how much code writing experience you have if you did it yourself or how much outside professional help you needed. 

Indeed the real challenge is finding the balance of time and cash, but even beyond that is the ability to get honest upfront answers. There seems to be a real disconnect with what an ecommerce company promotes you can do with their system and reality. Everyone looking into the DIY programs, I'm assuming, is looking for the same thing (a low cost means of setting up a store without the big up front cost of a designer). Part of the disconnect is that there's ample opportunity to view some great sites (sites you could vision working for you) made by folks using that companies system, so you feel hope. What the sites clearly keep from you is that these great looking sites were set up by web designers and you have about as much chance of pulling this off as hitting powerball. I use the powerball example as tons of folks play it when logic should tell them it's a complete waste of your money, but just because someone has to win and it could be them. 

The other difficult thing to deal with is looking into the company forums for design help for a novice. I cannot make a blanket statement that they all operate this way, but the 3 to 4 I've searched all seemed to have the same things going on. Once you get up to speed with some of the questions and roadblocks you'll run into for designing your site, looking at how the forum operates to answer these questions can be revealing. What I've found is a number of similarities from forum to forum. #1 There is usually very little usable help to move you from beyond basic set up. #2 There's a lot of debate going on beyond the scope of novices understanding. These folks are designers by trade and are willing to help you with the basics, but beyond that don't come out and say it, but you need to hire them or someone else. 

I think the next step for me is to start a thread that uses a bullet type step by step walk thru of what the realities are for setting up a store. There's been much written and debated about on this site, but I do feel a realistic comparison of what a $500 set up looks like and a $2000 and beyond set up looks like. I realize this will be very difficult and one man's $500 experience is another man's $2000 experience, but I think there needs to be a clearer picture of what people should expect for the different cost and option thresholds. I might be better off playing powerball than pulling this off. I hope that's not the case.


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Interesting that my last post has not been responded to. Exactly the same response that I got on the shopify forum. Seems like the designers out there are a little hesitant to add to the discussion. I'm hoping that the labor day weekend has folks away from the computer. This forum is something that has been a great resource for my growth as a screen printer, but there seems to be a drop in practical solutions with this ecommerce forum. If I'm mistaken, please jump in and correct my take on things.

I Spoke with a web design company today to map out potential routes to take setting up a store. They agreed that the reality with setting up a store and the reality of the costs are usually not lined up. We're trying to work together with a mentality that I need to create a site that works for them financially and a vision of what I hope for a site. The great news is that I'm friends with both the designers and they are willing to work with me on a workable level. Having poked around all the options out there I'm feeling I might be a lot luckier than many folks trying to set up a low cost store. (I may be ranting here, but after 6 weeks of research, I've yet to be have a reasonable explanation that I'm not) 

Again my goal is not step on designer toes (we're all this in this for the same purpose of making a living). I'm looking to get a better or clearer understanding of what it takes to set up a store, the costs, the obstacles. the realities. Hopefully my difficult road down this path can be something that this forum can benefit from. Please respond and help me with this mission.


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## Dan247 (May 31, 2009)

Hey Joe 
Have you played around with Microsoft Live small office.. seems to have most of the basics for a ecommerce site.. I just found it the other day so haven't had much time to dig into but like i said it seems to have the basics for those who are just starting out..


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## HM-1 Addict (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't think you're ranting one bit. You have been very sincere and honest throughout this entire thread. I myself am currently in your position and I feel that you are venting for me in a way.

At the moment I have a very cheesy, lame website through web.com. I feel that I am going to cancel soon and start from scratch. I would love to set up a physical server here in my home and host off of it myself. I would much rather find a simpler, cost effective solution that I wouldn't have to maintain myself, but of course, without spending a fortune. I am semi-impressed with shopify but I haven't looked into it to the degree that you have.

Currently, my web.com site is very cumbersome to use and edit and administrate. They simply threw up the easiest version of a site they could think of just to get by with a bare minimum and begin charging me monthly. I am extremely pissed about this but its the only site I have at the moment so I'm hesitant to toss it.

Please keep posting you are helping at least me and I imagine others are also following along. Do you have any links to other threads here in these forums that have been helpful to you?

John


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## printdog77 (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey John and Dan,
Thanks for adding to this discussion. Like both of you, I'm in the the early stages of making my goals of having a decent ecommerce store set up successfully. Interesting as I write this I'm watching Meet the Press on Sunday morning. Tom Brokow just talked about the exact issue I believe we're all facing. Brokow said the great challenge that people face today trying is get to accurate information, (")there's so much disinformation out there on any issue, that it's very very difficult to wade thru it all.(")
(") My way of paraphrasing. 
Forums like this one are incredible resources because they bring together for discussions by people that are willing to help one another by sharing info that is credible and helpful and disinformation has no agenda. Yes, you need to filter thru numerous posts, as you particular struggle is usually very specific and often difficult to describe you problem in an exactness that people can understand. My education using this forum's screen printing thread has been critical in helping me learn the skills to start successfully in this line of work. 
That learning curve which is on going has been a lot steeper learning curve than I anticipated. I'm really not surprised that my learning curve to get into the ecommerce side of the business also very daunting. 
However, like trying to figure out what screen printing equipment would best serve my needs, there was a great amount of disinformation I needed to wade thru. The word disinformation is used and, even to me, seems a bit aggressive and I'm guessing there's a better way of expressing that search. Being a new person entering that market, you understandably don't have enough of a background to get your hands around exactly what you needs are and will be down the road. All business' like yours and mine only survive if we can convince people we have the product that will serve their needs. No one company creates any product that serves the needs to all parties and our worlds it's our job to convince each particular customer that we can indeed service their particular need. We promote what we can do and hopefully that lines up with their needs.
The real struggle for mine and your search for how we can best be serviced in this ecommerce market is incredibly blurred by the numerous options we have. Trying to understand how each company might fill our particular need on the internet is so difficult because of not being able to have a one on one conversation with each company and more importantly not being able to know if our choice might be a good one until you actually jump in and try their system out. All the companies do a great job of promoting sites that there company has produced using their model. However, they all seem to blur the fact that those sites are not the ones you can set up on a budget that most people can afford for a start-up business. My latest move in a positive direction has been my discussions with a local site development group that I have personal ties to that is willing to work with me. They've also been able to educate me on the roadblocks on numerous fronts.
I'm hoping to use this thread and have folks on here exchange ideas how start-ups and info challenged folks like myself can attack this with good information.
Ultimately, I would love to help others and start another thread once I get my site up and going on some of the pitfalls and have a better picture of options folks have at different price thresholds. Hopefully more folks will join in to help out in this search. Sorry about the length of my posts, but I can't think of a better way to express myself.
Thanks to everyone
Joe


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