# Why are we paying to be Beta testers?



## kornitguy (Oct 17, 2008)

Aside from the Brother gt541 it seems like all the other companies are making us pay to be their beta testers. Look at how they resolve thier machines' problems; They tell us it is a learning curve issue yet cannot give us solid structured solutions. "Your humidity is too low" yet thier brochure states that their printer will work within 20-80% humidity, "Well yes but the optimal range is..." Your software is really buggy and non-intuitive. "Well we are working to improve it as we speak" Your machine doesn't start up right away and randomly stops working "Check your humidity level...." Great... We are right back where we started.

Justin made the analogy to a car. I will make the same analogy to the GT-541. You turn it on, it prints all day. You change the ink when empty and change the waste tray when full. This is exactly what I expect from a printer. Oddly (<-Blatant sarcasam intended) Brother is the only company to pull this off. I say oddly because they are the only company that did their own beta testing. Most of the others rushed a product to market simply to have a product out there. Standard slash and burn company tactics. Sell as much garbarge as quickly as possible then close.

How is it that my home printer can sit for a month yet I can turn it on and it prints fine? If a Kornit sat for a month it might never print again. I'm sick and tired of the same old status quo responses; Learning curve, new technology, and still developing. To me, those are R&D terms that are resolved before a product goes to market. I would be ashamed of myself if I offered most of these machines to anyone, thank god I'm not involved in their development.


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## pwapparel (Feb 16, 2007)

I find it odd how you're name is 'kornitguy' and you're bashing on a kornit printer... if you're such an unsatisfied customer why pronounce yourself as their guy?


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## kornitguy (Oct 17, 2008)

Didn't mean for my name to come across as an advocate. More of a user of one.

I have more experience with Kornit when compared to other printers so I had to use them as examples. From what I have seen and heard though, most other printers fall prey to the same problems; Banding, excess headcleanings, random breakdowns ect.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

100% agree with you Kornitguy! It really does suck to feel like being beta testers and the guinea pigs in this DTG world.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

I also agree, however I would like to see some brother printers with white ink in the field for an extended period of time before we say Brother nailed it.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I would like that also, maybe I can be a tester
I want one really bad but for now I have to go with what I have the gt541 and the anajet

I just would never pay that much for a kornit (but that is just me)


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

That is what I also would like to see. Now that they have added white ink to the mix, we will see. 

That is what is going to be interesting to me because the reputation is built on flawless printing and any one who runs white ink, knows it doesnt work that way with white ink. The machines take alot more care then running strictly cmyk. So it will be nice to see how they run, by actual owners once they get out in the market.

I too would not say brother is the only one who nailed it, when it is yet to be seen  Its also not right to group all printers but brother into the same catagory, when they are all built by different companies, and run differently each in their own way. Its best to give feedback on a product that you have worked with.


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

After hearing about the maintainence functions of the white ink Brother, I'm buying one as soon as my business plan will allow it. You can pull back all of the ink in the lines back to the cartridge according to people who saw the unit at SGIA. Basically you could withdraw the ink and run cleaning fluid through the lines every night without losing the ink that you prime the system with. That alone would drastically reduce your ink cost due to clogging and ink seperation.


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## fasteddie (Feb 5, 2007)

i guess this reflects the business ethics of each respective machine builder. 

Japanese has a reputation in the past to hv a very thorough beta testing period before they put out their machines to the market.( Brother is a Japanese company .) In wide format / desktop digital printing years back i was told that when they launch a new model, most likely they already start working on a model/version which wl be launched 2-3 years ahead. im not so sure if this still holds true nowadays in this more competitive days and age! 

im just thinking when we are using a beta testing version of any machines, shouldnt we be paying less than the full price of the machines to compensate us for being part of the developed team or being a guinea pig ? In reality, it seems not!


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## haire1944 (Oct 23, 2008)

I have had a gt541 for 2.5 years, but have not used it much due to moving 4 times in 2 years, Finally trying to set it up and having trouble with the ink. This is the first I have heard of sucking the ink back into the cart. The Brother Tech never mentioned it. He did tell about cleaning the lines but the fluid is very expensive.
Has anyone figured out how to use all the ink in cart? It seems a lot is left when it is suppose to be empty. The Tech did tell me the ink level is not actual but based upon what the electronics think has been used, so if it is not printing, it still thinks it has used the ink. My heads seem to be clogging due to non use and maybe old ink. Any ideas appreciated.

Jim


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

haire1944 said:


> I have had a gt541 for 2.5 years, but have not used it much due to moving 4 times in 2 years, Finally trying to set it up and having trouble with the ink. This is the first I have heard of sucking the ink back into the cart. The Brother Tech never mentioned it. He did tell about cleaning the lines but the fluid is very expensive.
> Has anyone figured out how to use all the ink in cart? It seems a lot is left when it is suppose to be empty. The Tech did tell me the ink level is not actual but based upon what the electronics think has been used, so if it is not printing, it still thinks it has used the ink. My heads seem to be clogging due to non use and maybe old ink. Any ideas appreciated.
> 
> Jim


 
The 782 has this feature, not the 541. Sorry for any confusion.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

raise said:


> After hearing about the maintainence functions of the white ink Brother, I'm buying one as soon as my business plan will allow it. You can pull back all of the ink in the lines back to the cartridge according to people who saw the unit at SGIA. Basically you could withdraw the ink and run cleaning fluid through the lines every night without losing the ink that you prime the system with. That alone would drastically reduce your ink cost due to clogging and ink seperation.


Our Kiosk has this function (that we never use anymore).
The valve system is 3 way, Open Closed and Cleaning solution. You can backflush your white ink back into the bottles, then draw cleaning solution through the lines and head.


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## raise (Apr 11, 2008)

I didn't know the Kiosk had that feature, is there any particular reason you don't use it anymore? To me it seems like most of the problems with white ink would be solved if I had the ability to purge the lines nightly with minimal ink cost.


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

The Kiosk (older style one with valves) doesn't really have an automatic purge system. If you are printing enough white ink you wouldn't need to purge and run cleaning solution through the lines everynight. Once a week would be more then though. White ink doesn't settle as much in the lines as it does in the bottles/dampers and printhead.


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## TahoeTomahawk (Apr 12, 2006)

And just to add on to what Zhenjie said, the valve system consists of several feet of lines. If the flushing took place much closer to the head, there would be much less loss of ink, also since the lines are so long it takes a bit to re-prime it.
Although the new ink us much much better, we do notice settling in the lines. We print about 50 dark colored shirts a day and still need to flush the entire lines every 2 weeks, but if we run batches or do several late nights, we flush it on the weekend.


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## adrenaline (Aug 1, 2008)

Thats funny. I hardly ever give my machines a complete flush. Maybe once evey 3 months. I do keep it very clean in general but replace most things on it every 3 months. We do also alot of colour prints but somedays might not do a white ink print at all for 2 days and never had a problem. I think the flushing would depend on the usage as well. Use less flush more. You are correct about the cleaning solution bieng rather expensive for a complete flush.


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## Emeraldimages (Mar 28, 2008)

hmm i have a saying that R&D stood for Repair & Dispair.. if i wanted beta i go to the fish store sorry i had to add my 2 cents.


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## kornitguy (Oct 17, 2008)

Emeraldimages said:


> hmm i have a saying that R&D stood for Repair & Dispair.. if i wanted beta i go to the fish store sorry i had to add my 2 cents.


lol  thanks for the morning chuckle

Sadly I think some companies agree with your acronyms


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## bob emb (Apr 5, 2007)

Hey emerald,

I am in Vernon NJ not far from you. Would you like to come over to our shop. We have lots of cool things, KORNIT PRINTER- embroidery machines, robotic rhinestone setting machines and a new toy. we can put any digital picture on a piece of crystal- great for award.


If we can be of any help give a yell.

Bob 973-764-3840


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