# Would like to know were to buy sub poly spray



## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi: 
I have been reading on here that alot of you use a poly spray on 50/50 shirts and I would like to know where I can get some I would like to try it. Maybe I can save a little money for my customers.


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## celmoso (Jul 15, 2007)

You can get some here in liquid form. Didn't come with tips or instructions for how to use it though. 

Information page about the Geo Knight heat presses, Tally color laser printers, dye-sublimation toner and heat transfer paper we sell


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

I use spray from that source for my laser dye sub.. Its called soft coat.. It works best if applied to the shirt as a pre treatment with an hvlp sprayer.. ( I got my sprayer from harbor freight).... 

I would suggest writing to the owner of that site (His name is Walt) He will know if it will work with your ink and your paper..

Shawn...If you have the spray and need help figureing out how to use it.. either write Walt.. or I can help by telling you how i use it.


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

Thank you I will contact him and get some to try sounds like a great way to save money.


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## celmoso (Jul 15, 2007)

Susan,

My only question with it is how long do I wait after spraying onto the shirt before I can press my design onto it?


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## debz1959 (Jul 29, 2007)

I found something this morning that I'm going to try...

It's called Goose Juice, you can find it at Liquid polyester sublimation blanks coating for sublimation and sublimation blanks

I'll report after I've tried it...


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## cagwatson (Sep 12, 2007)

debz1959 said:


> I found something this morning that I'm going to try...
> 
> It's called Goose Juice, you can find it at Liquid polyester sublimation blanks coating for sublimation and sublimation blanks
> 
> I'll report after I've tried it...


 
Any updates on your trials...?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Yeah, let us know if it really works as advertised. Seems a little too good to be true, but who knows? Here's another product I found but haven't tried it.

Coat-Your-Own Dye Sublimation Coating Spray

Rusty


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

i have been using the soft coat from ATI for months with no problems at all..
i spray right before pressing....


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

mystysue said:


> i have been using the soft coat from ATI for months with no problems at all..
> i spray right before pressing....


I don't think that works for regular DyeSub stuff, which I'm assuming is what selzler is asking about.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

I have heard that is does.. work for inkjet dyesub as well as the lazer.. They were talking about that on a group i belong to in yahoo.. and said yups.. so i donno not having tried it .. but if you ask the company they will let you know..for sure


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

I keep hearing that the Spray cannot possibly work because there is hardly a way for anyone to spray so perfectly and evenly that no cloudy effect is remnant around the design... and that an automated sprayer is the only way... and that sprayers are not that precise nor progammable to spray a perfect shaped of a transfer... Please comment... I am new an learning...


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

susan... you seem to have the perfect easy answer for all of it... are u magic? can you post sample pics? are your designs so conducive to this method that your answer may only apply to your scenario? also is this on light or dark garments or both... I keep gettign confused on what does what anymore because none of the base parameters are mentioned in all the postings... one must assume the context to a great extent... may be I am not good at remembering... nonetheless, it leaves ME confused


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

what is regular dyesub stuff?
...and what is being discussed then if your statement is correct?

is susan doing something special?
...like printing on hard surfaces not garments?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

NicMartel said:


> what is regular dyesub stuff?
> ...and what is being discussed then if your statement is correct?
> 
> is susan doing something special?
> ...like printing on hard surfaces not garments?


I believe Susan has a Laser printer DyeSub setup, which is not typical. I would guess that 95% (or more) of the people on here that do DyeSub do it with an Epson inkjet printer and use Sublijet or ArTainium inks.

From what I've read of Susan's work, she seems to get very atypical results compared to what the rest of us get using inkjet DyeSub printers. I don't know anything about Laser DyeSub printers or ink, and not many others seem to either, so I can't comment on her setup or what the difference is. But you are right that she appears to be able break DyeSub rules that the rest of us are constrained by.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

The one draw back to the laser printer is the size of the transfers, which is the biggest i can print is legal size paper, (8.5 x 14 inch). I just tend to work around that.. The shirts I make are mainly logo type shirts for companies or like right now ive been working on a fund raiser for a church.. Part of the reason i chose the system i hve is that I am able to use shirts that are not as costly as the 100% poly ones.. Because many of our shirts are worn for esample like by a local plumber for every day wear.. they really would not be interested in them at the cost that a say vapor shirt would cost.. Being able to use cotton/poly shirts ore even on occassion 100% cotton shirts also opens up more options for types of shirts.. 

Here is a photobucket slide show showing some of the things i have dyesubed.. there are several mugs that i have tended to make alot of and some shirts.. the t-shirts are 50/50 blend and the tank top is 100% cotton. I have a picture of the tank before washing.. and there is a picture of one that I had printed upside down by mistake and and used for my washing test .. It was washed several times and had very minimum color wash out.. I was very happy with them and the customer was thrilled..

Slideshow of Medium Show - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


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## selzler (Apr 4, 2007)

The dye stuff I was talking about is for t-shirts. I have received 4 differnet brands of spray for preping 50/50 and 100% cotton shirts and don't like any of them when washed about 15 times the color fades of the shirt real fast and thats not for me. I want the print to last as long as the shirt. I have showed this to some of the clubs I do work for. I showed them the shirt done with prep spray unwashed and then washed 10 times and also done the same with ink jet transfer sheets. Then I pull out the 2 sublimated shirts and show them the and explain the 3 prosses and then let them decied and they are now all happy with the sub dyed shirts because they last. Remember cheeper is not always the best selling tool. I do have prep spray and ink jet transfer sheets here if thats what they want but now have samples of both here and dye sub out sells them by 95%. I'm going to let you all know right now the poker chips done as a drink chip for the bars is my best selling item. They love the full color chips. One bar had to reorder chips because the people aren't turning them back in for drinks.


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Ive not had any of the washing out problems.. but.. I maybe the toner im using in combo with the spray.. as ive not tried it with any inkjet dye.. ..
If I knew someone local that did the inkjet type i would be willing to experiment..
sue


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

selzler said:


> The dye stuff I was talking about is for t-shirts. I have received 4 differnet brands of spray for preping 50/50 and 100% cotton shirts and don't like any of them when washed about 15 times the color fades of the shirt real fast and thats not for me.


That's pretty much what I expected from the sprays. I knew their claims were too good to be true.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

mystysue said:


> The one draw back to the laser printer is the size of the transfers, which is the biggest i can print is legal size paper, (8.5 x 14 inch).


That size limitation would be a showstopper for me. I do a lot of athletic prints and many of them (probably most) are bigger than 8" in both dimensions.


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## celmoso (Jul 15, 2007)

I've used the same spray with an epson and it does help a little with getting a bolder transfer onto 50/50, but it creates a noticeable film on the shirts, which ruins it for me. I don't want to have to explain to everyone that the film they see on the shirts will wash out after the first wash.


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

i've used the spray with a dye-sub set up on an epson using sublimation on 100% cotton and held up very well after tens of washings in regular washing ( not cold or delicate) the trick is you need a good sprayer (hvlp that does a very fine mist) i also heat-set for about 2 min with heavy pressure. so i think the soft coat is really good stuff... thanks mystysue for the recommendation


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Yups Howrd.. the sprayer and the fine mist is the key.. ... hmm to you heat set the spray before you press the transfer????
or you meant when you are applying the transfer?


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

i actually got much better results applying while the shirt is a little damp... how about you? much more crisp

P.S. i highly recommend the chicken hoagie from Lee's hoagie house in pasadena...


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes i apply a little damp also..t hats why i was curious about what you had posted.. lol..
My shop is not far from Lee's a bit further east right off the the main drag.... I love there chicken salad.. its big enuff for 2 to eat.. ..and the bbq beef sandwich is yummy too.


are you in so cal.. also?


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

downtown L.A. loft // studio *however, my favorites are Lee's and Tops on colorado blvd. worth the ride for the food.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

Am I missing something?
100% cotton for sublimation?


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

martinwoods said:


> Am I missing something?
> 100% cotton for sublimation?


I don't think you'll be happy with the result, but you can try. Susan says she does it, but I don't think I've heard anybody else that has done it successfully with an inkjet printer.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

martinwoods said:


> Am I missing something?
> 100% cotton for sublimation?


I don't think you'll be happy with the result, but you can try. Susan says she does it, but I don't think I've heard anybody else that has done it successfully with an inkjet printer.


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

So should we wait till the 10 washes mentioned above have reached past 15 or so?

Can anyone produce verified benchmark data as to the drop in quality at several stages of the life of the succesful work?

Could you more precisely define the exact and complete scenario for those successful runs? length, history, sample, design, all other parameters and in one write up... so it is easier to decipher rather than have it all scattered over 50 postings?

Are there counts, quantitated history that shows consistency?

Were the garments sampled thru-out their lifetime to verify and document accurate computed averages?

Can the method be generalized so as to allow one to comit to it with relatively low risk? Normally the answer I get on that one is: well you will have to try it for yourself! Well then I would not need to babble here would I?

It could be done in a simple way at first, like:
garment: blend,color
Pirnter/ink:
xfrPaper:
Spray:
Press:
Temp:
Dwel:
Weed:
Cut:
Wash fastness:
Failed units ratio:
Run size:
...
Step 1:
Step 2:
...


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

well Hwrdstern seems to be having good luck with it (the spray) with the inkjet dyesub.. as well.. He too is using a hvlp sprayer.. There are alot of differant ways to make shirts.. and what works for some well.. does not seem to for others.. or they prefer a differant way.. .. look at the dtgs.. some are having good luck and printing well..others are not as happy.. .. 

I know that I wear my own shirts and they are washed and washed.. I never wash in cold water.. i seldom turn them inside out.. I just throw them in and wash .. lol.. Ive washed them in hot.. and warm.. Ive put biz and other stain removers in the wash.. .. they dont fade for me.. so mabe im just having good luck.. or there is something i do.. that just works.. ..
Heavy pressure when pressing and a good dwell time are both factors as well.

I know ive done runs as large as 150 shirts in one day.. I have shirts here that i have had and worn and washed way over 10 or 15 times and they are still nice.. .. but mostly i know.. that I have customers that have bought shirts 7 or 8 months ago and come back and buy more or differant ones.. and if they were not holding up well they wouldnt be doing that..


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

I don't have MAGIC INK and the spray works very well for my epson ink jet dye sub with arTanium inks ... it's all how you prepare the garment * i love the spray so much i'm on my second bottle with no issues--- and yes 100 per cent cotton ---sublimation--- and like mystysue- i wash the heck out of the shirts in a regular wash- and tumble dry- after many washes still no worries


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## oneeyedjack (Mar 7, 2007)

Hi Mystysue,
Do you use special transfer papers from vendor or just regular dyesub transfer paper.

Thanks
Oneeyedjack


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

I have laser dyesub toner.. so the paper i use is the regular dyesub release paper for toner.. I am not sure what Howrd uses with his inkjet dyesub.


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## dawnpoetic (Jul 9, 2006)

After reading some of Susan's posts I purchased a bottle of the soft coat spray. So far, I'm really happy with the results. I have an Epson 4800 Hybrid running Sublijet inks. I also invested in the HPLV sprayer which definitely makes a difference. I have 2 sample shirts (one 100% cotton and one 50/50) that I've washed about 20 times each and they have held up just fine. This is great since I really prefer doing dyesub and now I can do it on certain style shirts that aren't available in 100% poly.

I've been meaning to say thanks, Susan!


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

Dawn.. thank you so much.. I smiled when i heard its working for you.. sometimes posting things is hard.. because you tend to get alot of people that either dont believe you or dont have as good of luck.. or what ever.. Im glad to hear that both you and howrd are having as good of luck with the product as me..


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

Please refer to the following posting from Dingbat(Ed) and offer your comments.
Thank you.

posting #16

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t28719-new-post.html


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## dawnpoetic (Jul 9, 2006)

Susan, the thanks goes to you for posting the information (even if you did get a little backlash for it). It took me a while to get all the right settings, spray techinique, etc before it worked properly for me. I understand people being skeptical because I was too, at first. I kept going back to your posts and reading about your results and I had to try it! I'm really glad I did...this just gives me one more option to offer my customers.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

dawnpoetic said:


> After reading some of Susan's posts I purchased a bottle of the soft coat spray. So far, I'm really happy with the results. I have an Epson 4800 Hybrid running Sublijet inks. I also invested in the HPLV sprayer which definitely makes a difference. I have 2 sample shirts (one 100% cotton and one 50/50) that I've washed about 20 times each and they have held up just fine. This is great since I really prefer doing dyesub and now I can do it on certain style shirts that aren't available in 100% poly.
> 
> I've been meaning to say thanks, Susan!


What is an HPLV sprayer? Does it leave a film on the non-printed areas where it's sprayed?


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

Rusty,

I have been trying to get that answer on this thread, without success.
This thread is perfect it seems, all is honky-dory... I am still waiting for the curtain to come down... see one of my postings above relating the Dingbat(Ed) posting. and let me know what you think...


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## dawnpoetic (Jul 9, 2006)

Rusty, to answer your questions: It's actually HVLP (I always screw it up) which stands for High Volume Low Pressure. It's capable of spraying a fine mist so you don't get coverage that is too thick. If you go to Home Depot, Harbor Freight or any store that carries paint supplies you should be able to find it (Home Depot has some on their site just do a search for it).

As far as it leaving a film, the sprayer is what helps reduce this. I've only been doing this a short time so I don't know if it can be eliminated completely. However, it does go away after it's washed. The customers who I've shown the shirts I've done with this haven't noticed or commented on it at all on the film. 

Nic, I hope this answers your questions as well. 

As I said, I'm a newbie to this particular process so I'm still testing and learning. It definitely requires perfecting the technique and I've had some not so great results during my testing.  However, I think with practice it can be an additional option for printing my designs. It took me a while to get results I was willing to sell with my vinyl cutter as well. So, it's not surprising to me that this process is going to take some time to get the results I want on a consistent basis. Not everyone is going to get satisfactory results. Just like some people can't get the quality they want with any other process. I've seen people rave about what great results their DTG prints out and seen others who just want to take a sledge hammer to theirs due to poor product results. Unfortunately, this is how it goes in a process where there is room for human error or equipment malfunction.


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## celmoso (Jul 15, 2007)

Rusty and Nic,

This should help you two out.

It's not as ideal as it's been made out. It does leave a film wherever you spray the mist. So unless you can spray it exactly where your design is with no overspray, you'll have noticeable film/feel to the shirt. 
It is almost invisible to the eye, but you can feel it a little, but it not heavy, and it does wash off well. As for the sprayer, Wagner makes an electric one you can get at Loews, Sears, etc for about $60.
It does allow a sub dye transfer to go perfectly onto cotton, or better results on 50/50. But it does not allow it to absorb into the shirt fibers like polyester does. It sits on top of the fabric, but it does keep it's colors after washings. The transfer still looks good, but just a tad less brilliant compared to the same thing on 100% polyester.
If you have some customers who are looking to save some dough on a large run of shirts it could help out, and the cotton shirts are less fragile for press marks and scorching too. 
Pros - 
Pressing process easier
cheaper shirts
more shirts to chose from


Cons -
Extra steps
Shirts really need to be washed before wearing from overspray
not as vibrant a transfer
overspray can get on counter/work table


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

yup dawn the secret is the fine mist.. Believe me there are alot of people that use this process with success..they just dont happen to be on this forum.. lol.. with applying the spray with an hvlp sprayer it forces the spray into the shirt in a very fine mist and it does not leave a window that is visable or a film like what many of you think of.. and believe me I wear shirts made this way daily.. my shop shirts that i wash continually are made with this process.. Its quite common for me to turn around and let the customer feel the back of my shirt.. to show them how it looks and feels.. 

and yeah dawn.. i do feel like ive almost been attacked for my post on this subjet.. when all i was trying to do was help and share info.. 

and for Nic.. I have tried to answer any question you have posted.. but god man i have a life.. so you have been waiting for umm 7 hours for an answer to your question.. I have a very busy shop.. I make signs and banners and such in addition to t-shirts and have a majority of the bigger account in my area that i produce signs for.. (not bragging just stating facts) Today I had 50 signs to make for the rose bowl and several for the city of pasadena.. and many more that i needed to get done.. as it stands i will be working tommrow.. to get caught up so i can start next week somewhat caught up.. So I dont have time to be on the forum as much as some and i answer the questions as i see them.
Anyone that has seen my work knows that im a perfectionist and if the product didnt work.. I woudnt be using it.. let alone offering it to my customers. Nor would i use a product that i would have to explain.. ooo that heavy feeling.. will go away.. as i stated the feel of the product on the shirt when done correctly is so light that really only the person making the shirt would notice that is there..

thanks again sue


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks for sharing. I hope you weren't referring to me when you said you felt attacked. I was just sharing my experience with DyeSubbing cotton and 50/50 with those who asked. I've never used the equipment you are using. So if it's working for you, then great.

It is kind of strange though that there is a viable successful option of DyeSubbing cotton shirts that hardly anybody seems to know about. You would think the makers of this stuff would be promoting it widely and it would be all over the Industry news. That's the primary reason people do not get into DyeSub, "because it only works on polyester".


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## mystysue (Aug 27, 2006)

No rusty.. i was not refering to you.. no problems.. .. Yeah .. Its kinda unchartered territory.. The spray i use has been out for about 8 months or so.. but orginally was just tested with the dyesub lazer toner i use.. on one of the yahoo groups i belong to was where i heard that people were testing it on the inkjet type.. Also with any new product there are the frist that try it and perfect the application process and as that happens the product evolves It took a while for us to figure out that the hvlp sprayer was the secret to make it work.. belive me.. a group of us just about pulled our heair out gtting to the point we are.. 

Yes You have to be careful a bit with overspray..but with the hvlp sprayer it is not that bad.. and i just use it in a room seperate from my equipment that it would hurt.. many use it right at their heat press.. This is not a product like the cotton trans that was horrific as it got everywhere and never wanted to come off.. 

hope this helps.
sue


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## howrdstern (May 7, 2007)

yeah, if your talking about the cotton trans spray from Coastal- i'd agree that stuff -to put it mildly (sucks) the soft coat is a dream to work with and i only use release paper like mystysue in addition to the sprayer and i get very vibrant colors (with no hand ) after a wash with ink jet dye sub..... so take it for what it is, we do not make money off this spray* oh wait we do- with our satisfied costumers - who love the shirts!


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## dawnpoetic (Jul 9, 2006)

I agree with Howrdstern...there are a lot of products out there, some are ok, some suck and a very small minority actually work as well as they claim to. 

An associate of mine has tried several different ones so he's very skeptical about the softcoat as well. He's coming by in a couple weeks to watch my process and to try it himself. He's seen one of the shirts I did and was impressed however, he has to see it for himself.


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## NicMartel (Sep 13, 2007)

Dawn & Shawn... thank you for clearing the smoke... well worded answers with clear information... very helpfull indeed. Thank you.


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