# Neon Ink & Direct to Garment Printing



## embloom (Jun 10, 2007)

I may have missed it when I did my search but I can't seem to find a definitive answer to:
a) Can you use neon ink with Direct to Garment printers?
b) If so, which printers?
c) What are neon inks special needs, requirements & limitations?
d) How are they priced compared to other inks?


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

From what I've read...neon is not yet available. 

I'm sure somebody is working on it though... 

I'd be very interested to see if anybody else knows anything different!


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## csquared (Sep 8, 2006)

one problem with neon would be having to change out all of your colors in the printer, flushing the lines and switch color profiles in your RIP


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## embloom (Jun 10, 2007)

All good points! I was thinking on those same lines just from what little I know.
Thanks Chris


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## embloom (Jun 10, 2007)

treadhead said:


> From what I've read...neon is not yet available.
> 
> I'm sure somebody is working on it though...
> 
> I'd be very interested to see if anybody else knows anything different!


John I think you're right.
Let's see what kind of feedback it generates.
Thanks


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

csquared said:


> one problem with neon would be having to change out all of your colors in the printer, flushing the lines and switch color profiles in your RIP


I wonder if they could be made in cartridges where you could "pop them in" when needed" so that you could at least avoid having to flush the lines?? 

Just a thought....


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

treadhead said:


> I wonder if they could be made in cartridges where you could "pop them in" when needed" so that you could at least avoid having to flush the lines??
> 
> Just a thought....


Actually, thats a smart idea! All the Epson printheads are obviously made to accept catridges. I usually fill some empty Epson 2200 print head catridges with cleaning solution/water to give my printheads a nice cheap clean. I see no reason why they can't be used with other ink colors.


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

One of the main reason why you can't just switch cartridges in and out is that most of the DTG machines use some type of bulk ink system. If you pull this cartridge out and place a new one it, you have to run a certain amount of ink through the lines to the printhead (i.e. called charging the lines). If you start to switch ink cartridges, you have to worry about the ink lines cleaning out (i.e. wasting the previous color of ink), cleaning the head, possibly cleaning the dampers and other things, charging the lines properly and then replacing the new ink when you are done using it so you can print your normal shirts. Seems like a lot of work for something that you would probably not use all that much. Maybe you should consider doing mixed media and use a neon vinyl to highlight it.

The easiset way to do this in the long run would be to run 4 colors (CMYK) and use the remaining channels as your highlight neon colors. Of course, this takes away from your ability to run white ink. Also as mentioned above, this would require all new profiles.

All of this is assuming that you can find an ink manufacturer that is willing to create the neon colors that very people would be running. This companies (Dupont, R&H, Sawgrass,...) really want to limit the amount of colors they have to manufacturer and stock. Our ink usage is nothing compared to the other types of ink they manufacturer. So, asking them to do this could be a stretch for them.

Just my opinion.

Mark


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## zhenjie (Aug 27, 2006)

DAGuide said:


> One of the main reason why you can't just switch cartridges in and out is that most of the DTG machines use some type of bulk ink system.


By cartridges we are talking about ones which pop right onto the print head (thus the need to remove the dampers/ink lines). Basically returning it back into a stock Epson style printer cartridge/head.

Obviously though the first issue is finding neon ink for textiles as you mentioned


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## DAGuide (Oct 2, 2006)

I can't say that I have worked on every machine, but the 4800 based printers require you to use a larger cartridge that will require you to go through most of the steps I mentioned. This would be for the Flexi-Jet, Direct Advantage, Blazer, TexJet,... I don't remember how the Fast T-Jet 2 and DTG Kiosk connects their bulk ink systems to the printer and if it is easily accessible to do what you are asking. If so, you are still talking about only putting a cartridge into the printer that contains somewhere between 10 - 20 ml of ink at best. If you get any air bubbles and need to run a cleaning, you will be out of ink. You are also not going to get a lot of prints out of those cartridges. Ultimately, (even if you could get the inks in cartridges and get the profiles done) I still don't think it would be that cost and time efficient. Just my opinion.

Mark


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

zhenjie said:


> By cartridges we are talking about ones which pop right onto the print head (thus the need to remove the dampers/ink lines). Basically returning it back into a stock Epson style printer cartridge/head.
> 
> Obviously though the first issue is finding neon ink for textiles as you mentioned


Yep...that is exactly what I was thinking of. Just like the package of cartridges I got with my T-Jet that is filled with cleaning fluid. Every now and then I remove all of the ink cartridges from the bulk ink system (keeping the lines attached) and replacing them with the cleaning cartridges.

This would be the same concept. The bulk ink lines would be untouched and "off to the side" while the system printed using the neon cartridges.

I'm sure I'm over simplifying it but it seems logical to me at least.


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## GRH (Apr 25, 2007)

Having neon and other specialty inks would be nice but I would rather see the industry work on a white ink system that works, is consistent, and affordable. 

The industry needs to spend their R&D time and money developing a white ink process that does not involve rubbing your tummy while patting your head while wiping the pretreat with a sponge.

Regards,
GRH


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## embloom (Jun 10, 2007)

GRH said:


> Having neon and other specialty inks would be nice but I would rather see the industry work on a white ink system that works, is consistent, and affordable.
> 
> The industry needs to spend their R&D time and money developing a white ink process that does not involve rubbing your tummy while patting your head while wiping the pretreat with a sponge.
> 
> ...


 Absolutely! I could not agree more! To be able to easily & affordably print on dark colors is without a doubt the priority!

Neons look their best on dark!


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

GRH said:


> Having neon and other specialty inks would be nice but I would rather see the industry work on a white ink system that works, is consistent, and affordable.
> 
> The industry needs to spend their R&D time and money developing a white ink process that does not involve rubbing your tummy while patting your head while wiping the pretreat with a sponge.
> 
> ...


Amen to that brother!!!

Absolutely got to be the priority with these machines!!


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## tomtv (Feb 6, 2007)

another thing to consider is not just the ink flushing etc., it is the rip that would be required to make this happen. the whole spot color thing in the dtg market is going to happen one day but in talking with our rip company this is not as easy as it may seem when using the dtg products. You have white ink base layers, cmyk layer and adding spot colors etc. starts to make it more like a high end sign software etc.

to me the real dream would be for a canon 12 or 16 channel ink system so we could do it all, at least for now.

i agree with all of you on the priority of the manufacturers to get things that are available now working great before we start off down too many paths.

tom


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## Wags (Jan 28, 2007)

I have talked to a salesman about this very thing a couple of weeks ago and he said he felt neon was a few years away at best. I agree white must be conquered first. As far as RIPs handling spot colors, I can't see why this would be a problem. It would handle it the same as any other standard color. When separating colors for film the RIP sees the CMYK plus any Spot colors and separates them properly. I would think all RIPs would handle them the same but since I don't have one for DTG yet I'm not sure. The limitation I see is how many in heads you have to work with.


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