# Hp Or Epson Printer Help!!



## vintageretrowear (Jul 7, 2007)

OK very quickly...I bought some screen printing equip this week off eBay....WHAT A DEAL....lemme tell ya....set up in my garage. I'm ready to go. Now I need a printer that will print onto transparency paper JET BLACK. What should I buy. Epson or HP....I currently have a tempermental HP but its out of ink...either I buy ink for the HP or spend $70 more and get a multi function Epson....WHAT TO DO??

Also please recommend a place to buy bulk transparency paper. Mucho thanks.


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## TeddyRocky (Mar 23, 2007)

vintageretrowear said:


> OK very quickly...I bought some screen printing equip this week off eBay....WHAT A DEAL....lemme tell ya....set up in my garage. I'm ready to go. Now I need a printer that will print onto transparency paper JET BLACK. What should I buy. Epson or HP....I currently have a tempermental HP but its out of ink...either I buy ink for the HP or spend $70 more and get a multi function Epson....WHAT TO DO??
> 
> Also please recommend a place to buy bulk transparency paper. Mucho thanks.


Why are you in such a hurry? haha reading your post made me think you needed to pee your pants. 

"lemme tell ya," ....but you didn't tell me......Tell me what kinda deal you got! 

I'd personally go with a wide format Epson. Transparencies can be bought from any screen print supplier online or in person. We use silkjet transparancies in our shop and works great. Good luck!


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

TeddyRocky said:


> Why are you in such a hurry? haha reading your post made me think you needed to pee your pants.


Now that's funny. 

When you ask 'Which should I buy, HP or Epson?', you're being VERY vague. We'd like to help you, but you can help us by narrowing your choices down to a couple of actual models. 

What models are you looking at?


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

Please search for EPSON on this forum. EPSON heads uses piezo technology, which uses vibrations to spit the ink at the coated film used to make positives.

You will not be happy with HP. Both HP and Canon use thermal heads and the transparent ink used for photographs is not opaque enough. Nobody makes RIP software to improve HP and Canon images for spot color positives. RIP software translates Postscript output from your graphic software and translates it into EPSON language so you can make halftones and increase ink deposit. Without a RIP EPSON printers will only achieve 1.6 UV density.

Size matters. Your choices are 13", 17", 24" and 44" wide.

Opacity matters. You need to stop UV-A energy from your exposure lamp.

EPSON is having a sale right now on REFURBISHED R1800 13" printers. 1 year EPSON warranty, free shipping and a 10% discount. $314
Epson Stylus Photo R1800 - Refurbished, Overview - Product Information - Epson America, Inc.


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## vintageretrowear (Jul 7, 2007)

Hey, I figured it out. I went to a local screenprinter to see his setup. He was using a crummy old Samsung injet and printing onto 3M transparency film. I went to Staples and bought a $68 3in1 Scanner, Copier, Printer and tried my first print and burn. Perfect. It layed down plenty of black ink (for graphics anyway)....Might be different with more intricate designs and halftones. 
A wide format printer would be ideal but this worked just fine. If the image is too big for 8.5X11 I just print 2 sheet with overlap and tape them together. I'll buy a wide format when I make some money. 
Also I bought my garage printshop setup off of eBay. A nice (rich) guy in Michigan bought his daughter the full setup....She lost interest, so he wanted to dump it....about 12K worth of stuff.
I bought a Caps 4 color 4 station, Brown vacuum exposure with dryer, flash dryer, all the emulsions and cleaning solvents, tons of ink....squeegies....67 screens of various mesh count, storage cabinets, screen rack and 640 T SHIRTS!!! All for $3600.....I couldnt pass up the chance.


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## TeddyRocky (Mar 23, 2007)

vintageretrowear said:


> Hey, I figured it out. I went to a local screenprinter to see his setup. He was using a crummy old Samsung injet and printing onto 3M transparency film. I went to Staples and bought a $68 3in1 Scanner, Copier, Printer and tried my first print and burn. Perfect. It layed down plenty of black ink (for graphics anyway)....Might be different with more intricate designs and halftones.
> A wide format printer would be ideal but this worked just fine. If the image is too big for 8.5X11 I just print 2 sheet with overlap and tape them together. I'll buy a wide format when I make some money.
> Also I bought my garage printshop setup off of eBay. A nice (rich) guy in Michigan bought his daughter the full setup....She lost interest, so he wanted to dump it....about 12K worth of stuff.
> I bought a Caps 4 color 4 station, Brown vacuum exposure with dryer, flash dryer, all the emulsions and cleaning solvents, tons of ink....squeegies....67 screens of various mesh count, storage cabinets, screen rack and 640 T SHIRTS!!! All for $3600.....I couldnt pass up the chance.


Great to hear it's working for you, later on you'd probably go with an epson once you gain more experience. And thanks for letting us know your deal, its hell of a deal.


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## EDWIN ACOSTA (Mar 30, 2008)

Hello guys i also am looking for a printer which printer would be best.i met a guy @ my job he mentioned epson 1800 ? Thank you for any help..


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## saturnstroll (Aug 19, 2008)

EDWIN ACOSTA said:


> Hello guys i also am looking for a printer which printer would be best.i met a guy @ my job he mentioned epson 1800 ? Thank you for any help..


I've been trying to figure out the difference between the 1400 and the 1900.

They both print 13" width --- that's what I need.
They both print transparencies --- I only need it for film positives.

The 1400 is $199 (after rebates)
The 1900 is $399 (after rebates)

So what's the big difference between the two? (besides price)


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## stooky.design (Mar 13, 2008)

i also will go for epson...maybe epson R1900 or R1800...got A3 size...and good quality..also support bundle ink


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

*Difference between Epson 1400 & 1900*



saturnstroll said:


> I've been trying to figure out the difference between the 1400 and the 1900.
> 
> They both print 13" width --- that's what I need.
> They both print transparencies --- I only need it for film positives.
> ...


The 1400 is the first *DYE *inkjet printer Epson have made since 2002. It is light, but the least expensive inkjet printer that will work with a screen printing RIP (AccuRIP, FastRIP, PowerRIP or SoftRIP) to make positives. It will also work with the new All Black ink system that works with AccuRIP. The low price 1400 is the most popular printer for textile printer. We only need black, not all the technology Epson needs to print pictures.
http://www.allblackbulkink.com/

The EPSON R1800 was the breakout *PIGMENT* 13" inkjet printer and made many screen printers happy with it's US$550 price. It had fewer features for photographers than it's older more expensive brother the 2400.
EPSON Printers for making Screen Printing Positives

In January 2008, Epson discontinued the R1800 and replaced it with the R1900 as part of their new cartridge scheme to defeat 3rd party ink cartridges and bulk systems. This is the same reason there is now a 4880, 7880 and 9880. Inside, all the x880 models are that same as the x800 models.









DYE inkjet printers can use DYE inkjet swellable film, where PIGMENT inks need a porous coating to take in the pigment particles that would sit on the top of the coating. Micro porous coating is incorrectly called waterproof film - it should be called BLEED RESISTANT. Epson ink is water based. If it was water proof, the inks couldn't go inside! It got the water proof because 10 years ago, DYE ink didn't bleed when you printed on the porous coating.








Swellable dye inkjet film is half the price of micro porous film. 

Inkjet Film for Screen Making Positives


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## BrewDude (Apr 11, 2008)

Go with the r1900 and you'll be happy with the results! Now if I could only find refillable carts with a good chip!


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## saturnstroll (Aug 19, 2008)

Okay, after a lengthy review, since I'm only wanting to print film positives, I've decided on:

Epson 1400 DYE inkjet printer (from the Epson store)
Epson Stylus Photo 1400, Overview - Product Information - Epson America, Inc.

Damper Carts Refillable for Epson SP1400 (by inkjetcarts.us)
Damper Carts Refillable for Epson SP1400 1400 #79

A hybrid black ink (has both pigments and dye; nicely suited for film positives; by inkjetcarts.us)
Epson:Screen Printing

Still looking for the best film.
*UPDATE*: As I'm getting the refillable cartridges & hybrid ink from inkjetcarts.us, I asked Ross what film he recommends for printing film positives. He responded, if I may quote:

_"The screen hybrid inks are a super fast drying ink with maximum opacity (super black). They are designed this way on purpose because of the large number of screen burners out there all using different print media. It really does not matter who’s media OR what media you use and we have no preferences. The inks will dry perfectly well on films, vellums, or ANY media for that matter, hence its versatility as a screen positive ink."_

Good to know. Thanks, Ross.


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## Tj Ryonet Tech (Jul 28, 2008)

R1900 can now go Blackmax!!!


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## frankiko (Jun 13, 2008)

complete your garage set up... buy agfa imagesetter and developer... about 7G 

my kodak 1200i wide format and epson R1800 are two among the best brands out there to print on transparency...
you can get epsonR1800 used for $200 (prints 13x44)... kodak 1200i 24" brand new for 3-5G...


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## JMD (Mar 16, 2007)

Don't waste your money on those epson's, and the extra programs you have to buy for it. Ink clogs are a pain also......been there will not go there again. Try an HP9800, I have an HP1220, the 9800 is a newer version. They are both inkjets and wide format, no special inks required. No extra programs. It does matter what kind of film you print onto....with my 1220 i use film from Victory Factory, very inexpensive. Check out all the people who use the 9800 on Screenprinters.net, do a search on HP9800. Richard, you are a very knowledable person about many things in this industry...but let me tell you that an HP 1220 or 9800 is more than adequate to burn a high quality screen. If you want to get into halftones 'Ghostscript and ghostview' are the way to go, free and once you learn how to use them they are very easy to use.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

JMD said:


> Richard, you are a very knowledable person about many things in this industry...but let me tell you that an HP 1220 or 9800 is more than adequate to burn a high quality screen.


Please send me a 1 x 8 inch patch of solid black ink I can measure.

Richard Greaves
Ulano Corp.
110 3rd Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11217


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## JMD (Mar 16, 2007)

Richard with all due respect why do I have to send you a patch to measure? What I am telling you is that myself and others are using the HP 1220 and 9800 with various types of emulsions, screens, artwork etc. with exceptional results. I am not looking for anyone to measure or proove this my statement, I am stating a fact... it works, period the end. Its less expensive and just as effective that an epson.


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

JMD said:


> Richard with all due respect why do I have to send you a patch to measure?
> 
> What I am telling you is that myself and others are using the HP 1220 and 9800 with various types of emulsions, screens, artwork etc. with exceptional results.
> 
> ...


You certainly _do not_ have to send me a print from your HP9800. 

You might want to send the print because I wrote please.

You might because this is a friendly forum.

You might because you want make friends.

You might because you want to help others.

You might because you know that I like to measure things.

You might because you want to save me US$200.


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## JMD (Mar 16, 2007)

Fred wow, you and Richard are to technical for me.

Richard - 
1. I will try and remember to send you a pc of bad film if I run one in the future. They are very rare because we test on paper till we have it perfect before we do films.
2. I appreciate you saying please, but you are asking for something, I would say please also.
3. I didn't think I was being unfriendly, and I was being polite to you saying how knowledgable I think you are.
4. I am not here to make friends. I am here to gain information and share information. If I make a few friends along the way that would be great!
5. I think I am trying to help others. I am trying to save them money and get professional results. Is that not helping others?
6. I didn't know you like to measure things. I have some wierd hangups too, thats ok.
7. I don't have to send you something to measure to save you $200. As a matter of fact you can order directly from HP and if you are not happy with it, you have a certain amount of time you can send it back for a full refund. Just be careful of the film you use. And read some of the forums on Screenprinters.net that discuss the hp printers. This is paramount are you will not be happy.

Hey if you guys wanna spend lots of money that you don't need to then go ahead. I use this printer for our business everyday and we are thrilled. We have an OKI and another HP for other office duties. The HP 1220 is dedicated to making films


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## RichardGreaves (Nov 7, 2006)

ImageIt said:


> I've got to agree with JDM, "WHY?" What good could possibly come from it?
> 
> Richard, you seem obsessed with film having a density of 1.6. I'm curious the origin of this number.


As the product manager for Ulano's inkjet films and the tech guy that answers questions, I would love to find an inkjet solution that didn't use a RIP.

I would have tested the HP9800 ink image to see how much UV energy got through it with my UV light meter that measures in milliwatts and millijoules. If a stencil needs a certain volume of UV energy, but the positive leaks UV and hardens the image area before the surrounding stencil is hard, the positive has failed to do it's job and they call for help.

I don't think that I am obsessed with 1.6 UV density. It's a measurement. HP, Canon and Epson transparent inkjet inks printed with factory drivers usually have a UV dMAX of 1.6 which works very well for photographs of the family picnic on opaque white paper. We print on clear films and need to increase the ink deposit to stop UV energy. The industry standard of the 1980s and 90s, diffusion transfer film usually had a UV dMAX of 2.2. 

I know that using AccuRIP, FastRIP, PowerRIP or SoftRIP will generate positives with UV densities greater than 3.0, and there will be no trouble washing out the image area of a stencil.

To a person without a UV densitometer, these numbers mean nothing, but it helps me to rank products like batting averages in baseball. 

When I started testing inkjet printers, I printed a small black patch using every standard setting so see which one gave me the best result. Some inks that you can actually see through, stop invisible UV energy very well - like Rubylith. Holding the positive up to a light source is not a reliable measurement of UV density. Epson DYE Photo black and PIGMENT Photo black inks can look very different on the film, but measure the same UV density.

If the HP9800 or any printer only achieves 1.6 UV density, it is no better than an Epson using the standard Epson driver - so I use density to compare printers.

People call everyday with positive failure problems. They don't call if 'it works'. If the image area is 'crusty' or doesn't dissolve with water and rinse down the drain, they have a positive problem. Most people compensate by under exposing, but at the cost of stencil durability - and they call with that problem. 

They are using methods they hope will work, but their results fail. I spend a great deal of time explaining products and methods that I know will work. For these people, an Epson + RIP is a guaranteed result. This forum is filled with people that are looking for help because things are not working as they had hoped.

If they are printing on Ulano Inkjet film, and it doesn't stop UV energy, I have to have a solution. Inkjet films have no variables except switching brands, but ink deposit can be modified in many ways.

Search in these forums for the word 'dime'. When people have trouble washing out the image area, I tell people to compare the stencil and images area results of their positive, with a dime or piece of aluminum foil which I know stops all light energy and I can predict results by measuring the image density.


I also feel that every seminar and article I have written since 1985 are wells in the desert. I put everything I write out in public for peer review.


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## NaturalUnnatural (Feb 16, 2009)

vintageretrowear said:


> Also I bought my garage printshop setup off of eBay. A nice (rich) guy in Michigan bought his daughter the full setup....She lost interest, so he wanted to dump it....about 12K worth of stuff.
> I bought a Caps 4 color 4 station, Brown vacuum exposure with dryer, flash dryer, all the emulsions and cleaning solvents, tons of ink....squeegies....67 screens of various mesh count, storage cabinets, screen rack and 640 T SHIRTS!!! All for $3600.....I couldnt pass up the chance.



You lucky lucky fella!


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## ArtbyTati (Dec 5, 2012)

Epson WorkForce WF-7620 All-in-One Printer - Product Information - Epson America, Inc.
Will this printer work for transparencies? It's large format (13x19) and not very expensive, would be nice to have the additional capabilities for home office use. 
Thanks


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## INKFREAK (Jul 24, 2008)

No reason it shouldn't. I use an HP office jet. Just buy the correct transparency for inkjet and you're all set.


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## datafry (May 21, 2014)

I have a 7610 with an all black pigment ink setup, and it works like a charm for me.



ArtbyTati said:


> Epson WorkForce WF-7620 All-in-One Printer - Product Information - Epson America, Inc.
> Will this printer work for transparencies? It's large format (13x19) and not very expensive, would be nice to have the additional capabilities for home office use.
> Thanks


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## ArtbyTati (Dec 5, 2012)

datafry said:


> I have a 7610 with an all black pigment ink setup, and it works like a charm for me.


Thanks, how do you set it up for all black pigment? What cartridge do you get for the 7610 and which transparencies do you get? Thanks


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## datafry (May 21, 2014)

Cobra ink cart's. and waterproof film's, I've got a bunch of different companies film that I'm still trying to find the best cost vs quality. But every silkscreen supplier has them. 



ArtbyTati said:


> Thanks, how do you set it up for all black pigment? What cartridge do you get for the 7610 and which transparencies do you get? Thanks


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## 4Phoenix (Sep 22, 2016)

Epson 3800; The Stylus Pro 3800 is based around Epson’s Ultrachrome K3 ink set. These are that company’s state-of-the-art pigment inks, offering a wide gamut and excellent light fastness (as do all pigment-based inks). These inks are found on other printers in the Epson line, ranging from 13″ to 44″; the 2400, 4800, 7800, and 9800 models.

There are nine inks in the set. Of these, there are two primary blacks – one for use with glossy papers and the other for use with matte papers. On the 4800, 7800 and 9800 wide format printers these blacks must be swapped when the user changes paper types between glossy and matte. And therein lies a tale.

The predecessor Epson 4000, as well as the 7600 and 9600 models, were designed around a previous ink set which used seven colours rather than the K3 ink sets eight colours. When the K3 inks ( the 3 indicating the addition of an extra black) came out (not that long afterward) Epson had a problem. These printer would have had to be completely reengineered and redesigned to accept a ninth cartridge. The solution which Epson chose was to require that only one of the primary blacks, either Photo (glossy) or Matte be loaded in the machine at any time. This applied to the replacement 4800 (17″), 7800 (24″), and 9800 (44″) models.


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## nelson vallarta (Oct 19, 2016)

JMD said:


> Fred wow, you and Richard are to technical for me.
> 
> Richard -
> 1. I will try and remember to send you a pc of bad film if I run one in the future. They are very rare because we test on paper till we have it perfect before we do films.
> ...


Hi... Sir.... I am also new in silkscreen industry... I bought a HP Office Jet 7110. Is this machine suitable for making inkjet film positives?


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## Southern Apparel (Jul 26, 2017)

New to this thread and since things may have changed my situation is... My artisan 1430 is not printing worth anything and it seems one of the heads may be clogged. I wanted to try an epson eco printer since the refills or lack of refills needed would be so cheap for the output it has. They do not have a wide format in this line of printer.. any suggestions on something up to date and inexpensive?


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