# plastisol transfers peeling



## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

About 60 days ago I hot pressed some single color (white) plastisol transfers (some shirts had transfers on both sides) on Gildan 50-50's. Last week I learned that some shirts where having problems, the transfer's cracking/peeling off. Not every shirt is as bad as the next but now a week later I've notice a certain shirt getting worst after just one more washing. Transfer provider (only used for this job due to illness of whom I was had been using) doesn't want to talk about it since they have 100's of customers using the same ink with no problems. So they have 100's with no problem, hay I'm worried about the one with the problem! Gee they pointed at my cheap press, well I got a Hix S650P, then it was because it was a 16x20 (too big/bad heat), the cheap shirts (using Gildan 50-50), ... I called who I bought the press from, I called Hixs, I spoke to two t-shirt companies a hour or two away and all four asked the same questions, ran me through the same test, and figured the press was fine. 3 of 4 worried about the transfers and the other was sent samples to check out. Next time someone asks who to get transfer's from and some company tells you their song and dance, every company is good when things go great but how do they help/handle issues. Now in 7 days, I got nothing from this company. I won't name them right now, still hoping for results and searching facts. Like I said I sent samples to who sold me the press to check out and I sent some today to who supplied them with their ink. Not knowing a lot about this business, working off of what suppliers say... I see something else that makes me wonder. When I take one of these unused transfers and rub my finger nail across the transfer, puff it's gone? Anywhere my nail rubs a little it just chips/falls apart so I grabbed a different companies transfers and this doesn't happen? Those transfer's I can peel up the transfer so once again day and night? When I told this to the the company that supplies the ink I was told this doesn't mean much, could be due to the paper... Is this worth being ticked? We got $1k worth of net cost of cloths/transfer's alone out labor there and I feel each customer needs to get what they bought, quality shirts! Somehow I'll take care of this but lucky for me this issue is just starting to grow so maybe I'll have time to get a fix. If I get a call that the transfers are fine, then what? I used the setting that I was told to use, pre-pressed each shirt,... Now I was told to use 380 degree's at first, then the other day the transfer company said to use more heat, can't use too much heat unless your using white shirts (mainly using red or blk shirts for this) cuze his transfers need 365 to cure (blaming my press again I think) but the press works. The company who sells his ink said to drop my temp to 350 over the phone, gee that's two different directions? I sent them some transfers and am done with this set, why have more shirts out there to peel? I did get a couple of e-mail reply (that where very short form the transfer maker) over the weekend but never would he call me back and nothing at all today! I will make some calls Tuesday to start/try to recover cost's but how would you go about this? If you won't post, use a private message. Thank you,


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## splathead (Dec 4, 2005)

Paragraphs are your friend 

Hard to follow along but looks like you are covering all your bases; you're having others sample the transfers, you've stop pressing any more of them, and you're trying to work with the printer.

You may have said it, but also send one back to the printer and have him test it.


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## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

I just heard back from the first place to test them, transfer's failed! They said ink should have been ok if not the mfg would be having mass problems all over. So now I'll wait to hear back from the ink co which I mailed sample to yesterday. The transfer company knows there is a issue and doen't want to call me back. I'll wait to see what the ink company says about the transfer's and go from there. At that point if the ink company says it's bad transfer's too then I'll ask the sales person to tell the transfer company that as see what happens. At this point the problem should be taken care of or I'll post names and detailed story which they don't need!


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I think some companies are jacking up the application temperature just to be safe but that can cause other issues.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastisol-transfers/t176601.html


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## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

we found some of our customers were taking their shirts to dry cleaners and then complaining the plastisol was coming off. 

here are some thoughts:

The shirt was not properly prepared by pre-heating. Moisture in the shirt is causing the peeling.
The shirt itself was a second that had too much filler (not likely)
Customer is not taking proper care of the shirt (probably)
The transfer was not properly made (could be if the supplier doesn't want to talk to you. 
I didn't read past the 2nd line because that big block of text is too painful to wade through.

Solutions:

Stop using that supplier
Change shirt brands
Make sure you follow directions for pressing
Include care instructions with the shirts and have the person who picks them up sign a waiver indicating they understand the care instructions. 
Use the enter key when you type big blocks of text. It will make it easier to read. Formatting is your friend

Good luck.


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## ZachEllsworth (Dec 2, 2005)

Bryan Ultduct said:


> When I take one of these unused transfers and rub my finger nail across the transfer, puff it's gone? Anywhere my nail rubs a little it just chips/falls apart so I grabbed a different companies transfers and this doesn't happen? Those transfer's I can peel up the transfer so once again day and night? When I told this to the the company that supplies the ink I was told this doesn't mean much, could be due to the paper...


I would encourage you to continue working with the manufacturer to diagnose the issue but based on this quote, it is possible that the transfers were overcured after being printed. Just like screen printing, plastisol transfers need to be run through a dryer and it is possible to have the heat too high and let them sit too long. This would also cause the peeling and cracking that you are experiencing after application to the shirts. It's another option since you've checked your press and application process.


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## franktheprinter (Oct 5, 2008)

ZachEllsworth said:


> I would encourage you to continue working with the manufacturer to diagnose the issue but based on this quote, it is possible that the transfers were overcured after being printed. Just like screen printing, plastisol transfers need to be run through a dryer and it is possible to have the heat too high and let them sit too long. This would also cause the peeling and cracking that you are experiencing after application to the shirts. It's another option since you've checked your press and application process.


 
My thoughts exactly! It definitely seems like an overcured transfer here. If you also see alot of
"bubbling" in the ink that would also be a good
indication of an overcured transfer.


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## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

Still wondering what went wrong. I sent sample to who sold me my Hixs and was told bad transfer. Ink maker says the other co. didn't do the test right, Ink maker hasn't given me a final word yet but so far hinted at too high of temp (380 used), too much time (8 sec), to much pressure (7-8). Also hinted that the transfer on the back & easy-weed pressing might be a issue, well not all shirts had anything on the back but some did. Gee transfer maker said more heat like 400 or more now that there is a problem but before he said 380, hum? Anyone else willing to test a transfer? More results as I get them. I just took a new shirt on hand and was able to remove this transfer with my thumb nail, took a little effort but it came off. Does this ring any bells to you folks?


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## larry (Mar 6, 2007)

Over the years I have seen this many times. The one factor that comes into play is the printer himself. If the person doing the printing starts to cut the ink to make it easier to adjust pours in a cutting agent this can be a problem. This holds true in direct and also transfers. I think it happens more than we like. Also if the ink is just setting and when they use it, It needs to be stirred, But for one reason or another I feel that the ink was to dry.


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## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

I tested and tested today at different heat, time, and pressure. I pressed all these 50-50 shirts with a white transfer at 380 for 8 seconds and pressure at 7. One Stroke (who made the ink) says nothing wrong with their tests. Maybe too much heat/time/pressure...since he was at 5. This morning I took a Silver Mt Graphic's transfer that I have (2 color red/blk) and one from ABC Custom Prints (with One Stroke Ink) which are the ones I'm having issues with. Cut some up to so I could put each on my test, all hot peel. 365/8 sec/5 pressure, 380/8/7-8 presure,380/8/7-8 (cooled quick with a fan), 400/8/7-8,380/8/5 pressure and the ABC's all flaked off with my finger nail once cooled and Silver Mt's was fine. I then e-mailed and called Clyde from ABC and he had the e-mail and said you need more heat for his white than other colors (recall he told me 380 for 10-12 sec and then dropped time to 8 seconds) so back to the shop I went. I did his white transfers at 380/12 seconds/7 pressure,380/14/7, 400/12/7,380/20/7, 400/20/7,410/20/7 and they all failed. The 20 second ones where starting to give the transfer paper a goldish tint already. The 20 second 400-410 temp did look better, they chipped and peeled but didn't just flake off with my finger nail. Robb with One Stroke is done talking too if I don't list to him, didn't like me testing. Hum the guy who made the transfers gave me more heat setting so I tried them too. Can't say much for this guy at One Stroke nor results form Clyde at ABC who says he's got 30 years in the business..., well I got 6 months and crap to show for. I did get a test result back from Wild Side North last week which was about what I found out, now I showed Robb it and he said something on the order that they didn't test it right... Called Visa to stop payment if not resolved, going to get transfers coming from someone who knows there after the problem. I also mailed off two more sample packs today for third party results, if I screwed up I want to now it! If they screwed up it appears we're wrong because they don't have problems, ha ha!


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

If you want to mail me a piece I'll be glad to try it but honestly I think you've tested them enough. A transfer shouldn't be that difficult to apply and it sounds like you're getting a lot of excuses. It would be one thing if _only you _couldn't get them to work but if no one else can get them to work then I'd demand a reprint. Does the ink flake off the paper easily? If so, it's almost a sure sign of overcuring.


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## inkables (May 27, 2008)

I would be curious who you used. I have had a very similiar problem with a transfer company and they blame all the issues on my equipment, which is a brand new Fusion.


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## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

The transfers where made by ABC Custom Prints formely Brandbook Tee's, who will they be next week? I was told they used One Stroke Ink for their stuff.
Yesterday I got a e-mail saying how good they are, welcome to come to our buiness, we'll.... but still they have all these happy customers but he kept forgetting about me! He still "thinks my ink is under cured and that must be due to a problem with my press..." I e-mailed back for what temp/time/pressure he'd like used so I can give this information along with some of these transfers to a lady who's big into hot pressing for years to see if she has problem. Well e-mails stopped and it's been 24 hrs w/o hearing back. I keep hearing not enough heat, cold spots, bad temp guage... I was at 410 for 20 seconds testing to the point the transfer paper was changing colors (that's heat, must have been better than their 380/12-14 seconds) and still problem, get it?


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

My testing is done and I pm'd you the results.


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## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

I know have had more of you press this transfer, seems to apply just fine, only issue is when rubbed with a fingernail it flakes off. Robb from One Stoke Inc said these transfers apply fine and didn't want to discuss this anymore if I don't agree with him has send me a shirt with my sample transfers back, yep they stuck to the shirt and yep they peeled when I rubbed them. Anyone else got problems with One Storke or ABC, one or the other might have goofed or is it normal for transfers to peel off because my others don't peel!


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## idonaldson (Sep 29, 2008)

It is not normal. I just got some transfers - they gave me 6 extra and I only needed one to get the knack. After pressing, I rubbed - stretched - folded and a few other things and all went well. I loved them and the customer loved them. If you sell things that flake off you are just asking for trouble, but you already know that. My garments were very moist - so I had to press them a few times to dry them out.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

I will go ahead and post my results in case anyone wants to compare notes and since Bryan already alluded to them.

[note of clarification: I used samples from 4 different transfer makers, 2 pieces from Bryan; 1 each from F&M, Silver Mtn, and an athletic transfer that came from either Howard or Mustang, can't remember for sure. The F&M, SM and athletic transfers were pressed per the makers instructions)



> I tested the 2 samples you sent on a Gildan 100% heavy cotton tee (didn't have any 50/50 shirts).
> 
> First piece was pressed @ 350 for 10 seconds and peeled warm. No ink left on the paper. The transfer looked great. I allowed to cool for five minutes and stretched the print, immediately the ink puckered at the edges and lifted from the shirt. After releasing the fabric the ink wrinkled and could be picked off the shirt with my fingernail.
> 
> ...


I was eventually able to scratch ink off the 2nd transfer pressed @ 380 with some effort. I got the same result from transfers from F&M and Silver Mtn. All 3 were a fairly thin layer of ink. I was not able to scratch the athletic transfer at all but the ink is very thick, at least as thick as sign vinyl.


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## Bryan Ultduct (May 10, 2011)

See results from Lisa when she tired these ABC tranfer's that I'm having problems with, I removed here phone number but it's available if someone really wants it.

Bryan, Good Morning I tried the heat transfer you sent me from the ABC Custom Prints. The transfer applied great at 380 degrees and looked great
Until the garment cooled down and then the transfer peeled away at all points when I scratched or touched any place on the transfer. I then tried rubbing on the transfer paper where the new transfer was intact before applying heat to the transfer and the paint just comes off the paper like it’s been cured wrong in the process. I 
Have been using heat transfers for 13 years from several companies and I have never seen this failure in a heat transfer.
Thanks, Lila’ Sewing & Embroidery


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

Bryan Ultduct said:


> The transfers where made by ABC Custom Prints formely Brandbook Tee's...


BBT just changed from something else a year or two ago.


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