# Why buy a DTG printer?



## tim3560

I would like to know the reasons that you all bought your t-jet or dtg printers. I don't care about brands specifically. I'm just trying to justify the cost. If my wife and I can produce the same quality with sublimation and plastisol transfers and an automatic press, and get the same quality and produce around 40 shirts an hour, why bother with a dtg printer when I still have to load the shirt and then heat press it after its done printing? What is there to justify the price tag. The only thing that really appeals to me is that you can do the different substrates on the same machine, but I already have a mug press and a cap press. Please help.


----------



## Rodney

> 'm just trying to justify the cost. If my wife and I can produce the same quality


It may not be the machine for you. It's not a perfect fit for everybody 

That being said, I'd love to hear some of the pros/cons as to why people purchased theirs if they were in a similar situation as Tim.


----------



## tim3560

Thanks Rodney. Come on folks, let us know.


----------



## Twinge

From what I can tell, it's pretty specific, and really depends on both how much volume you do and what types of shirts you do. 

I haven't personally used a DTG printer, but I'd say they would be quite handy for small to medium sized runs (large runs would be better screen printed, even with colors most likely) of complex designs (vinyl can't match), multi-color (plastisol can't match cheaply), mid-color or dark shirts (heat transfers won't be able to except for low-quality opaques), an end product with a soft hand (normal heat transfers probably won't match), and on cotton t-shirts (dye sub won't be able to match).

Basically, some combination of factors might make it worth it to some people. There are a few areas it excels at that other methods don't quite match, but for a lot of t-shirt work it wouldn't be worth it and could be better done in another way.


----------



## csquared

Ok here is why I picked mine up (I have a tjet2) 
Reasons:
>>>I run my Internet t-shirt biz from my home so I do not have lots of room for inventory, with dtg printing I can do one offs, this lets me keep a low inventory of shirts.

>>>My printer and heat press take up a 6x6 foot area, this is ideal for me.

>>>Although cafepress and other companies of the sort provide a great service I want to keep more profit and have more flexibility in my designs (I can print over collars and seams with my T-jet)

>>>I can print on terrycloth and golf balls with the tjet.


----------



## COEDS

I plan to buy a kiosk in the near future as a companion to my embroidery business. I plan to travel to events and print on site. I now to transfer on site. I will be able to have less $ in a garment as it leaves my business. I won't need to order transfers and have leftovers.


----------



## prometheus

csquared said:


> >>>I can print on terrycloth and golf balls with the tjet.


You can print on golf balls with those things?


----------



## csquared

yes, you have to have a special nontextile pre and post treatment but you can do it and it looks pretty good. I can print like 38 at a time


----------



## John S

Why I didn't buy one (yet)

About 90% of my screen printing sales are on dark garments. I'm waiting for the technology to make white ink consistent and reliable.

I would buy one if I had enough sales of lower qty runs. I see DTG fitting in under the 4c screen printing on light garments. DTG would also work well in the one-up personalized market. You bring in a photo, I'll put it on a T-shirt while you wait.


----------



## TahoeTomahawk

csquared said:


> Ok here is why I picked mine up (I have a tjet2)
> Reasons:
> >>>I run my Internet t-shirt biz from my home so I do not have lots of room for inventory, with dtg printing I can do one offs, this lets me keep a low inventory of shirts.
> 
> >>>My printer and heat press take up a 6x6 foot area, this is ideal for me.
> 
> >>>Although cafepress and other companies of the sort provide a great service I want to keep more profit and have more flexibility in my designs (I can print over collars and seams with my T-jet)
> 
> >>>I can print on terrycloth and golf balls with the tjet.


This is how we started out as well however, we have moved from selling our own items to being a standard print company.


----------



## Rizzo

Can Someone mention about the quality of the print please, maybe no the best for whites but what about a 4 color print (A simple solid 4 color seperated image) done on Sreen print and DTG, what do you say about the print quality, which is better on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the best.


----------



## Rodney

> (A simple solid 4 color seperated image) done on Sreen print and DTG, what do you say about the print quality, which is better on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the best.


I still prefer screen printing. I would give screen printing a 10 and a DTG a 6-8 depending on the machine and operator.


----------



## Rizzo

Tks Rodney, hope others who are using the DTGs could share their views on this, appreciate it,


----------



## Don-ColDesi

A view from the other side!

First, a qualifier - I am a DTG distributor, I have over 16 years experience in the decorated apparel and graphics markets and I stayed at a Holiday in Express last night!

Direct to Gartment will replace screen printing when the marketplace demands that it do so. The common mistake I see is that people arr trying to compare direct to garment output with screen printing output (on the exact same piece of artwork). Direct to garment excels in high color images, as more and more artists become empowered and begin to design for direct to garment (as opposed to designing for the limited colors of screen printing) we will see the market begin to shift faster. No doubt the costs of output are currently higher than screen printing on a per shirt basis, but, as more and more cities, counties and states begin to regulate the wastes produced by traditional screen printing more and more folks will switch to the environmentally friendly direct to garment process. This process may take 2 years it make take 20 years, but it will happen. 

As an apparel decorator the benefit to direct to garment now is in the short run and/or high color marketplace. The sooner you begin to educate your customer base about direct to garment, the sooner you can begin making money on this form of garment decoration. The longer you delay, the more likely that the guy down the street will educate your customer for you and force your hand. 

JMHO


----------



## ohbrother

I am a relative newcomer to the garment decorating business, but chose DTG for a few reasons. I should point out that we are primarily a custom embroidery business, but shirt printing is growing. I looked at heat transfer and sublimation as alternatives but ultimately decided DTG was the best solution for my business. A few reasons:

1. I can always make more money by doing something myself rather than paying someone else to do it for me. I had no intentions of buying/learning the screen printing equipment and placing it in my retail store. 
2. We are a retail store and get a lot of walk-ins. We are able to sell DTG because of the quick turn times.
3. As Don said so well, no limitations on the design
4. Short runs are not a problem. Want just one - can do easy!
5. We can easily customize each shirt! For instance, we have done family reunion shirts with a common design on the back and individual names on the left chest of each shirt. This was done easily with DTG and impresses the heck out of customers.
6. We have an outside sales rep that takes prototype shirts to prospective customers. If they like it, we just print more of them as the prototype is the actual product.
7. We build custom web sites for our larger clients and allow them to order and customize designs online. We don't have to stock inventory as we print on demand.
8. Wearability/Durability - There is no 'hand' to the DTG print - you simply can't feel it like screenprinting. Landscapers love that fact given it is near 100 degrees in the summer here and very humid - large screenprints on the backs of their shirts make them hot! It washes/irons well too. 
9. I'm a techno geek and easily drawn to new technologies!

My biggest concern going into this was the whole 'no white ink' thing. The Brother simply doesn't have it yet and no matter how hard you try you're not going to print with an ink that isn't darker than the garment itself. This has not been a problem for us. We offer several pastel colors (blue/grey/sand/pink/yellow/etc) of shirts and they have been extremely popular. When a customer demands a dark shirt, I send that to my screen printer and just make less on that sale. White inks are available on several DTG printers, and will most likely be on all of them in the near future, so this limitation will soon be gone. I am very happy with our printer. I expected the payback to be several years on this piece of equipment - it looks like it will pay for itself in less than one year!


----------



## Rizzo

Don and mike, tks so mcuh for those points, but one particulart point is still not very clear to me, maybe I just want it in plain words........ how is the color to color comparison? for instance one color prints only..........
Red to red
Blue to blue
Green to Green.......... 

Does DTG give you the same bright colors as the image on the screen or slightly dull, maybe a shade? unlike the screen print...............what you see(mix) is what you get (the Print).


----------



## ohbrother

Rizzo,

First let me say that I like screenprinting - the guys that do that are truly artisans and I have seen some amazing work from them. I use whichever technology makes sense for each project. Which looks better is purely subjective (PC vs Mac, Coke vs Pepsi, Taste Great, Less Filling...) and a religious discussion. This is probably a poor analogy, but does putting wallpaper over a porous wall look better than painting the same wall? Some people would say yes, as it yields a more uniform overlay. If I have a design that calls for a lot of a single color with a relatively low dpi image (72 dpi), I will consider that for screenprinting, or even cut a vinyl transfer. Since I'm in analogy mode, I have a color printer and a b/w laser in my office. When I want to print a b/w invoice I could print it on my color printer, but I don't. Why? The laser is designed for such a task and I don't want to tie up my color printer or waste the ink on that job. Likewise, I reserve my DTG printer for designs with lots of color and higher resolution (600dpi). The printer offers settings for vividness (0 -4) and ink volume (1-10). I normally operate it at vivid=1 and volume=7. If color was a problem I would set that puppy at the max (vivid=4 and volume=10), or even use its double print mode where it prints the design twice. The colors do look a little softer as they are part of the fabric and not laid on top of it, so you get a textured look. Again, some may not like this but others prefer it. Most of our designs have lots of color/detail to leverage the technology - that's why we get repeat business from customers who like our work. The paradigm is shifting, and we are trying our best to not do things 'the way they have always been done'.

As Mr Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that!"


----------



## Rizzo

Thanks mike, That makes sense, the line that answered my question totally would be "The colors do look a little softer as they are part of the fabric and not laid on top of it, so you get a textured look. "

Move with the flow, yeah?


----------



## Don-ColDesi

Rizzo,

Sorry for the delay in responding, I was away at the ISS Show in Orlando.

To answer your question, no, the colors are not as "shiny" as plastisol, it is in essence melted plastic and will always be shiny, that is also what gives it such a heavy hand, which many people do not like. I do not advocate buying a direct to garment printer if you intend on trying to reproduce monotone or 2-3 spot color work in large volumes, let the screen printers do what they do best. I would, however, encourage you to offer those customers full color as an option (at a higher price) and let them make the decision. May customers request screen printing because they don't realize the full color is a viable option.

Hope this helps


----------



## Rizzo

Tks Don, that surely helps. will get in touch with you if further clarifications are needed.


----------



## Vtec44

For us, we want to be able to do our own printing, but w/o letting the printing process dictates our imagination. Well, something like that


----------



## fasteddie

has anyone done a quick comparison between heat transfers and direct to garment printing in terms of colors and cost wise ? thx !


----------



## Rizzo

regardless of the cost, as far as I can say.. heat press will always leave a white border when you use transfers, this probably is the major difference than the price as it is printed on a special paper and not directly on the garment like screen printing, this way ........ maybe the price factor is not truly comparable


----------



## tim3560

Rizzo said:


> regardless of the cost, as far as I can say.. heat press will always leave a white border when you use transfers, this probably is the major difference than the price as it is printed on a special paper and not directly on the garment like screen printing, this way ........ maybe the price factor is not truly comparable


That doesn't really make since. If you use plastisol transfers there's no border. I am however beginning to see what you other pro dtg users are talking about as far as the print quality. *How much time per shirt does it take to set up a shirt , print, press, and have a finished product?* I would also love to see a cost comparison between using a plastisol transfer and the cost of set-up and ink on a dtg. I guess one main difference would be that you have no minimum on the dtg, but say we were doing an order of 20 shirts. The cost for the plastisol transfers would be $12.88 for 7 color transfers plus $1-2 for the shirts each. So for a 7 color shirt it's roughly $15 per shirt to print. What is the cost for a full color dtg for 20 shirts?


----------



## TahoeTomahawk

tim3560 said:


> That doesn't really make since. If you use plastisol transfers there's no border. I am however beginning to see what you other pro dtg users are talking about as far as the print quality. *How much time per shirt does it take to set up a shirt , print, press, and have a finished product?* I would also love to see a cost comparison between using a plastisol transfer and the cost of set-up and ink on a dtg. I guess one main difference would be that you have no minimum on the dtg, but say we were doing an order of 20 shirts. The cost for the plastisol transfers would be $12.88 for 7 color transfers plus $1-2 for the shirts each. So for a 7 color shirt it's roughly $15 per shirt to print. What is the cost for a full color dtg for 20 shirts?


Depending on the image it could be $0.25 to $1 for the ink.
Also depending on the design it could take anywhere from 30 min to 1 hour or so to complete 20 shirts.

Another thing to consider is this:
If a customer calls and says they need 20 shirts by today could you do it?
How long does it take to order your plastisols before you can apply them as a transfer?
If printing your own plastisols, how long does it take you to do that?

One of the benifits of DTG is being able to print immediatly. We've printed several samples for customers within the first 15 minutes we've received their artwork in our email box.

Don't forget that your time is also money.


----------



## Rizzo

Sorry tim, I was not including Dye sub or plastisol transfers, my fault.


----------



## tim3560

Rizzo said:


> Sorry tim, I was not including Dye sub or plastisol transfers, my fault.


No problem.


----------



## tim3560

TahoeTomahawk said:


> Depending on the image it could be $0.25 to $1 for the ink.
> Also depending on the design it could take anywhere from 30 min to 1 hour or so to complete 20 shirts.
> 
> Another thing to consider is this:
> If a customer calls and says they need 20 shirts by today could you do it?
> How long does it take to order your plastisols before you can apply them as a transfer?
> If printing your own plastisols, how long does it take you to do that?
> 
> One of the benifits of DTG is being able to print immediatly. We've printed several samples for customers within the first 15 minutes we've received their artwork in our email box.
> 
> Don't forget that your time is also money.


That's definitely a big point. Time is definitely money and I wouldn't be able to get my plastisols in a day, and only in 2 or 3 days if I paid a butt load of fees (around $100 or more)to get them rushed and overnighted. That's probably the biggest factor on my wanting a dtg is that I can do the shirts while customers wait. So a full color print would only cost $1 per shirt? That's a pretty big gap between $1 and $12 per shirt. I guess that's why they say that the machines pay for themselves so fast! When are the new and improved machines hitting the shelves this year? Does anyone know? I hear they're making improvements. Will the cost be the same then?


----------



## tim3560

I also like the idea of taking the dtg to shows and printing custom shirts on site. I think customers at a car show would get a kick out of having their car and themselves on a shirt, and being able to get the shirt printed there at the show. Has anyone taken their dtg on the road? How does it handle while traveling?


----------



## OtakuClothing

I have been doing some research into this. I have recieved sample shirts from the company (fast T-jet 2). I have gone to the local mall and had shirts made. My company does preprint designs. I thought, "WOW! Wouldn't it be great to print this guys full color designs with out the hassle of screen printing it." If you have been into screen printing you know what I mean about trying to do do process colors.

The DTG systems not the brand name DTG but all of them. Are mainly for people wanting to make tshirts but do not have the ability to print real shirts. It does a beautiful color. Can print on black. But everyone seems to fail to mention that the Fast T-jet has about 8 washes before it starts crackling. The prints on white start fading after about 10 washes. oh yeah you can wash the shirts 30 times but by then there is hardly a design left on a black shirt.

A good screen printer can do a quality white shirt with a good soft hand. Crappy people do not take the time and effort to do a good job. I have softhand shirts I printed 7 years ago that the shirts have holes in them and the print still looks good.

But I have to admit. When someone comes to me and says.... "Ummm hey I would like to get 6 shirts of this printed for a concert tomorrow." Yeah that is when I wish I dumped $15,000 into a printer. But then again. I am not in a mall kiosk. Heck I wish people would stop asking me to print shirts for them. I can hardly get my own printed.

So base it on what yu want to do. If you have a fistfull of $1,000 bills and want to start a business. The fast T-jet is for you.

What does it take to pay one of these bad puppies off. Lets say you spend $15,000 on one. To pay it off in 5 years you have to make $3000 a year in profit off the one machine (remember this is not including over head and stuff. This is solely pure profit from the machine being poured back into the machine.) so that means that everyday you have to make $8.43 in profit. So above cost of ink and the shirts $8.43 of pure profit. So you would have to sell like a shirt for $20 everyday for 5 years. And that is not making you a dime.

Thats cost comparison if you ask me.


----------



## tim3560

So you say that the BEST quality shirt is accomplished by screenprinting, correct? I've been thinking of how great it would be to be able to print full color designs straight off of the computer but so far it seems like I haven't gotten any orders that couldn't be done with one-color or two-color plastisols or by sublimation. I'll just stick with what I've got at least until they perfect the technology. I certainly don't want customers complaining about the shirt that they loved falling apart after only a few washes! Thanks for your input.


OtakuClothing said:


> I have been doing some research into this. I have recieved sample shirts from the company (fast T-jet 2). I have gone to the local mall and had shirts made. My company does preprint designs. I thought, "WOW! Wouldn't it be great to print this guys full color designs with out the hassle of screen printing it." If you have been into screen printing you know what I mean about trying to do do process colors.
> 
> The DTG systems not the brand name DTG but all of them. Are mainly for people wanting to make tshirts but do not have the ability to print real shirts. It does a beautiful color. Can print on black. But everyone seems to fail to mention that the Fast T-jet has about 8 washes before it starts crackling. The prints on white start fading after about 10 washes. oh yeah you can wash the shirts 30 times but by then there is hardly a design left on a black shirt.
> 
> A good screen printer can do a quality white shirt with a good soft hand. Crappy people do not take the time and effort to do a good job. I have softhand shirts I printed 7 years ago that the shirts have holes in them and the print still looks good.
> 
> But I have to admit. When someone comes to me and says.... "Ummm hey I would like to get 6 shirts of this printed for a concert tomorrow." Yeah that is when I wish I dumped $15,000 into a printer. But then again. I am not in a mall kiosk. Heck I wish people would stop asking me to print shirts for them. I can hardly get my own printed.
> 
> So base it on what yu want to do. If you have a fistfull of $1,000 bills and want to start a business. The fast T-jet is for you.
> 
> What does it take to pay one of these bad puppies off. Lets say you spend $15,000 on one. To pay it off in 5 years you have to make $3000 a year in profit off the one machine (remember this is not including over head and stuff. This is solely pure profit from the machine being poured back into the machine.) so that means that everyday you have to make $8.43 in profit. So above cost of ink and the shirts $8.43 of pure profit. So you would have to sell like a shirt for $20 everyday for 5 years. And that is not making you a dime.
> 
> Thats cost comparison if you ask me.


----------



## Vtec44

OtakuClothing said:


> So above cost of ink and the shirts $8.43 of pure profit. So you would have to sell like a shirt for $20 everyday for 5 years. And that is not making you a dime.
> 
> Thats cost comparison if you ask me.


 
If I'm reading this right...

$20 - $8.43 = $11.57 (cost of shirts and ink)

You definitely need a new shirt vendor 

But you're right, if you're doing about over 200-300 shirts a month, it's probably best to go with a screen printer.


----------



## OtakuClothing

Vtec44 said:


> If I'm reading this right...
> 
> $20 - $8.43 = $11.57 (cost of shirts and ink)
> 
> You definitely need a new shirt vendor
> 
> But you're right, if you're doing about over 200-300 shirts a month, it's probably best to go with a screen printer.


 So what your saying is that your store front does not cost you anything? Your credit card machine and service is free? How much did it cost for your vendor to ship your shirts to you? I guess if you are printing all by your self you do not have to worry about paying someone else.

Single black shirt is about $3.50. Printing a quality print I think is like $2.50 from a fast t-jet. Depending on where your at a a kiosk is about $800 a month. divide that buy 30.... ummm thats about $26.67. Of course a store front can easily be more.

In 5 years you will have to buy a new one because newer and better machinery will be out by then. Plus the print heads from what I heard tend to go bad on them pretty quickly... I believe thats another $400. Its just too costly for a casual person. In truth 90% of most business want a standard logo thats almost always less than 4 colors.

Now lets say you sell shirts for artists like I do. It can be pretty tempting. Its hard to get screen printing to match it. And on top of that you do not have to buy 500 tshirts to do a print run. You just print designs as the orders come in. Thats pretty handy. But I like my customers to come back because I sell quality shirts. Not something that falls apart in a month or two.


----------



## csquared

not sure about all of that Harold. 
I have not had any problems with customers and shirts "falling apart" you will find that after that initial wash there is not much more fading or falling apart than screen printing, that is assuming that the pretreatment was done correctly.


----------



## Vtec44

OtakuClothing said:


> So what your saying is that your store front does not cost you anything? Your credit card machine and service is free? How much did it cost for your vendor to ship your shirts to you? I guess if you are printing all by your self you do not have to worry about paying someone else.


I can't speak for everyone, but we customize the software inhouse so it's free (minus the webhosting cost). Credit card service is charged based on the percentage of sales, w/o monthly services. 




> Single black shirt is about $3.50. Printing a quality print I think is like $2.50 from a fast t-jet. Depending on where your at a a kiosk is about $800 a month. divide that buy 30.... ummm thats about $26.67. Of course a store front can easily be more.


Yep, much more especially when you have a diverse customer base. 




> In 5 years you will have to buy a new one because newer and better machinery will be out by then.


That depends on if you're leasing or purchasing. Better machine doesn't mean that it's suited for your business, unless ROI justifies the cost. 




> Plus the print heads from what I heard tend to go bad on them pretty quickly... I believe thats another $400.


An Epson 2200 head is rated at about 25k/10k pages for b/w & color respectively. Yes, print head for converted printers are very tempermental because of the textile ink, so you need to do proper maintenance. It's about $300 for a new print head. If you have the customers and printing constantly, and if your wholesale profit is at a tiny $2 and your print head goes out at every 5k shirts, you'll spend an extra $300 for every $10k of profit.




> Its just too costly for a casual person. In truth 90% of most business want a standard logo thats almost always less than 4 colors.


Definitely, a casual person shouldn't purchase a dtg to begin with unless he/she has lots of money to play with. My customers want full colors 10x6 almost all the time, so my 90% figure is completely different. 




> Not something that falls apart in a month or two.


That I have no personal experience with. 

I'm not advocating that a dtg is well suited for everyone, just presenting a different perspective.


----------



## OtakuClothing

Well the crackling... you know where a thick part of a print seperates and flakes off or at least looks like it. I had 2 samples sent. 1 from a sales person. And one directly from the manufacturer. Now if they did not pre-treat the shirts..... I guess its a possibility.

Now I have some pictures. they are in a large format like 3+ megs. But the clearer they are the better the example.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example1.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example2.jpg
These are of a shirt I had made in July of 2006. The image was nice and clear. Grant it its on a ash shirt but still.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example3.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example4.jpg
These are shirts that were made in April of 2005 using an epson printer with standard ink and softhand.org transfer papers. We cut out around the image you may notice a bit of yellowing around the letters. And a whole lots of stains. I wore this shirt every week washing in hot water with bleach. Still holds a great amount of detail.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example5.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example6.jpg
this is a screen printed shirt I bought over 6 years ago notice a tad bit of crackling on the glasses. But the color is still dead on. No fading. This is what we call a well made shirt. The white and back ground red parts are soft the main part of the art is a bit thicker but no where near bullet proof. I think Roger Jennings would be proud of this print. This is what I aspire to print. A good soft hand with color that makes me want to keep it 10 years down the road even if there are fist sized holes under the arms.


----------



## OtakuClothing

I am not saying that my price per shirt is whole accurate. When I had a credit card machine they charged me for it. Plus the extra phone line. Plus the charges to accept payment with their online payment.

And the cost of print head I was quoting from some other source I had read. So yeah I guess $300 is a big savings from $400. and none the less I do not think the print head will give you tons of warning or replace themselves. Its just something to think about. When the print head goes bad in my inkjet printer I toss the printer and buy a new one. The t-jet you can not do.

So some of the prices are here or there. I just wanted who ever was thinking about it to think of the entire picture. Not everyone can do screen printing. And the T-Jet will fill the specialty market. It definitely has its purposes. Its just not as rough and ready as people make out yeah? It can be profitable. It just takes a lot more than a simple setup a kiosk and away you go. It is perfect for small shops that are doing alright and want to draw in more people. Its perfect for special occasion type things IE pictures with Santa. Its just not the best thing a professional screen printing shop should consider. They would almost be better off finding a mall kiosk or embroiderer that has a t-jet and refer business to them. This way they may get some return business.


----------



## binki

We are going with the DTG option because we get a lot of requests for short runs that would not make sense for screen printing and that we could not otherwise do. Ordering transfers are not economical for runs with 1-10 shirts but I can get a premium price for those short runs because no-one in our area can match us or will take the work.


----------



## Peace2TheRest

The DTG is a tool. You have to remember that, along with the hefty price tag comes a lot of trouble, but remember with this trouble can bring lots of rewards. 
By being able to do small production runs you not only seperate yourself from a saturated market of screen printers, and transfer t shirt makers, but by offering custom small runs you can also promote other products. ie. white shirts, hats, etc....
Also you can offer designs to test them out and see what will be a good seller before commisioning a screen printer to make you 12, 25, or 100 whatever their minimum charge is. This allows you to test a market with a design that is at best a gamble. Then if you have a proven seller you can then move on to having a screen printer make you however many you project to sell. This is good business planning and also allows you to carry very little inventory granted you have a supplier nearby ready to one or two day ship to you. 
Also please remember that when you have a walk in store or a mall kiosk that you are most likely going to impress the buyer with the machine, however do not allow them to mess with your rip software or they will be there allday. Keep a professional distance between you and your customer.


----------



## funkyfungii

interesting, Mike.
What DTG machine do you use?


----------



## fdsales

Don-SWF East said:


> A view from the other side!
> 
> Direct to Gartment will replace screen printing when the marketplace demands that it do so. This process may take 2 years it make take 20 years, but it will happen.
> 
> 
> JMHO


I remember when we first started in this industry back in May 1984 (that's 23 years ago) we purchased a single head Melco embroidery machine. The salesman stated, "Yes Sir, embroidery will replace screen printing" and that was the buzz back then. I also remember the same salesman about 5 years later trying to sell us an embossing machine, as the then new replacement for embroidery, and guess where that went. Well, here it is 2008, and screen-printing is alive & well, Thank You Very Much.
Will DTG printers TOTALLY replace screen-printing, I say NO. Will DTG printers be a very good addition to screen-printing, like embroidery is, I say YES!!! It has it's place, and more & more systems will be sold in the future, just like embroidery came of age, so will DTG. However, for what I see as the next several years, when it comes to printing a multi-color design on an auto press that can produce 100-150 shirts per hour, I don't see DTG printers exceeding that volumne & lower cost any time soon. Traditional screen-printing does not require pretreating of shirts, or worring about the now new twist of which mill is making the t/shirt. Only when DTG mfgs. finally figure out a way to print white ink WITHOUT the use of pretreatments, or at least TOTALLY automate the pretreatment process on the same machine (much like the Kornit, but for less than 100K), screen-printing will remain King. Also, the cost of the ink will have to go way down, and the speed of the machines themselves go up, to approach the cost of auto screen-printing. Besides, if you're going to drop 100K for a Kornit system now, one can purchase a very nice new auto screen-print setup for about half of that, and produce a higher volumne at lower cost. Just as a matter of reference, my current contract screen-printer can print a 6 color front & 6 color rear on DARK shirts w/ white base & hilite 144 pcs for $4.05 per shirt, INCLUDING the $15 per screen x 12 screen setup cost. That price drops to only $3.20 per shirt on an exact repeat reorder for 144 pcs. From what I understand about DTG printing, that cost for a dark shirt currently runs about $4.00 PER SIDE. WOW!!!! As I said, DTG has it's place, but not totally replacing screen-printing. Sorry Don! 
Just my 2 cents worth of 23 years of pulling a squeege, and standing in front of an embroidery machine. Thanks for reading.
Brian


----------



## bob emb

I understand that you can do a six color print with underbase and hilites for a repeat order off 144 for about $3.50. That may be true but how do you handle all six of those colors if there are a half dozen gradient in each color. Dont tell me that half tones work. That is the beauty of DTG we have 16 million colors that we can print in any array we choose. And last but not least no silk screener that I know will do 12 shirts with 15 colors or any amount of money. I can set the job up and have them printed in less than 1 hour and charge $15.00 with the shirt. Yes I would charge for art work if needed, but that it.

You have to remember that DTG works best and pays best a 100 pieces and under with many many colors.

Bob


----------



## fdsales

Yes, I agree, but some customers will only need 6 colors, and won't be willing to pay $15 per shirt. As I said before, DTG does have it's place, & so does screen-printing. Each customer's needs (and sometimes demands) are different.


----------



## funkyfungii

Here in the UK t-shirt market, the need for 6 colour tees is fairly minimal. In fact the main tee market is 4 colours or less, and is mostly print on black - though other colours have recently become popular also.

Print on white is less common here. So is the American love of complex, multi-coloured works of art on black tees. 

There is no doubt that screen printing suits a small UK business better. However - I'd still like to know what DTG machine is the best bargain (price and performance) for a small business.


----------



## DAGuide

funkyfungii said:


> However - I'd still like to know what DTG machine is the best bargain (price and performance) for a small business.


The answer to this question depends on so many things tied to a specific business that no one (except maybe you) on this board can answer that question about your business. So much about one's business and geography will determine what machine is best for them.
- What color garments are you going to do? CMYK only or CMYK+White Ink?
- Does it need to be portable? Event production? Mobile vs Stationary?
- Where are the distributors that sell a dtg machine around you? How far?
- How much time and money are you willing to invest to learn the process and the machine?
- What type of technical support do you prefer or can you work with? Onsite, over the phone, videos,... What type of support does the distributors offer?
- Which distributor do you have the best relationship with?
- What is more important - price per a print (bulk ink) vs. less maintenance / time (cartridge ink)?
- Look over you past orders and what sizes are the prints you do? How large of a printable size do you need?
- What experience do you have with graphic software programs? Do you want a very simple RIP or would you prefer more control over the colors?

I could keep going on and on. In the end, you need to travel to a place where you can network with dtg distributors and owners (i.e. trade show, conference,...) and see these machines in person. Go through all the steps you would if you were doing it at your shop (i.e. changes to graphics, setting up the RIP/printing software, checking the machine, pretreat if necessary, print, cure, cleaning the machine...). Then, go home and do the wash test to compare the results to what your target market wants.

Buying a dtg machine is not an easy process. There are a lot of questions that need to be considered and the investment is not cheap. Doing your homework will pay off in the end. Good luck in your search.

Mark


----------



## sodrisc

funkyfungii said:


> Here in the UK t-shirt market, the need for 6 colour tees is fairly minimal. In fact the main tee market is 4 colours or less, and is mostly print on black - though other colours have recently become popular also.
> 
> Print on white is less common here. So is the American love of complex, multi-coloured works of art on black tees.
> 
> There is no doubt that screen printing suits a small UK business better. However - I'd still like to know what DTG machine is the best bargain (price and performance) for a small business.


your perceived lack of interest here in the UK for 6+ colour tees is in my opinion because there isnt anywhere that will do it without charging a fortune. we get our designers to comeup with designs with a 3 or 4 colour limit because of the high price screenprinters want. interestingly as well black is the poorest seller for us....... we now have a A4 CMYK dtg, granted the size limitations will be a challenge for the designers but i can tell you they were pretty stoked when i told them they can use as many colours as they want. 
We will be putting our money where our mouth is with a tshirt range for this summer, the beauty of it is if a design doesnt sell it wont have been printed yet, and tying up money in dead stock. roll on the summer!!


----------



## funkyfungii

Thanks Mark. 

Yes, a lot of considerations needed. 

It's not for me at the moment, though I'm definately looking forward to a demo at a trade fair pretty soon.

Yes Sodric, you may have a point with the 6+ colours here in UK re the cost of screenprinting.


----------



## sene

*DTG printer guidance needed*

hi there Everyone,

I am looking at buying a DTG printer and have read all of your comments. What I would like to know is if there has been any new development since these posts were made( November 2007). I am based in Cape Town, SOuth Africa, so not only am I looking at investing a huge amount for the machine, if need be I will need to get it here. Can anyone recommend a DTG machine that can fit into my 'kiosk' type t-shirt business? Obviously, the cheaper the better - but the quality is my main focus. At the moment I am using transfers but the schlep of cutting out designs and the hardness of the printed item does not suit my business (I do mostly baby and children t-shirts and oneies). Any suggestions would be appreciated as I am still a toddler in this industry but it is time to grow up and face the big boys......


----------



## fdsales

My suggestion would be the Brother GT541. It is a very rugged, reliable machine, easy to use, very easy to maintain. Price new is about 20,000; you may find a used one somewhere. The only drawback is it does NOT print white ink, so you will not be able to print dark shirts, but, you won't need to pretreat either. Another advantage of the Brother is that it has a memory card input slot, whereas a customer can bring a memory card from their digital camera, and print any image right off the card (provided the image is exactly what the customer wants printed). Another advantage is that the Brother uses a cartridge ink system; more expensive for the ink, but more reliable, and less maintenance.
The biggest thing to consider is service & support. Don't know if there are any Brother dealers in your country/area, but if not, I still feel the Brother would be a good machine for you. Bear in mind that if you need to print on dark shirts, and must have the ability to print white ink, whatever model you choose will require more maintenance, and also will require that you pretreat your shirts, so you'll have to do that most likely in another location off site, and then bring the shirts to your kiosk location. You don't want to perform any pretreatment near your DTG printer. It's like spray painting; there's over spray to consider.
If costs are a consideration, then you may want to consider a rebuilt TJet 2 or other brand. Just about any DTG printer can be setup to print CMYK only (no white ink), thereby reducing your maintenance issues. Check out equipmentzone.com; they handle rebuilt machines, and have excellent support. Good Luck in your search.


----------



## sene

Hi there Brian,
Wow, you are quick..... thanks for all the advice, I have definitely learnt alot..... according to google we do have brother suppliers here in SA and will contact them on Monday. I am only planning on buying this machine next year but as this is such a huge outlay (in $'s or our weak rand) I want all my ducks in a row before making this decision. So, if you hear of anything that can help between now and then, PLEASE drop me a line.

Appreciate your help mate,
Sene


----------



## adrenaline

I have 2 Dtg Kiosk And keep very busy 7 days a week and long hours per day. I also do di sub aswell. I am pretty honest with all my customers large runs say 100 2-3 colour prints i tell them to go to a screen printer. It will save them alot f money. In saying that I have around 15 screen printers form all over Australia and some big ones who send alot of work to me aswell. I personally think that they do both compliment each other and I try to work together with them and so far it is working very well. I would get probably 400 shirts per week on anverage just of screen printers to print and I wouls also send some big jobs there way as well. We do approx 1000 shirts per week DTG and around 4000 stubby holders all di sub. All togheter it is all working very well. I find if you can find some good screen printers and work with them you will make some good money. Also try to get with some other companies and order bulk shirts if you have the room and they also do you can almost 1/2 the shirt price. Iam talking a few thousand but between 6-1- business it only 1000 or 2 each.


----------



## sene

thanks grant. your help is greatly appreciated and glad to hear that the DTG can handle 1000 prints per week as that is more or less the amount that I need to do in season. Thanks again


----------



## cfittowin

I have seen that screen presses are definitely better for a large volume


----------



## cfittowin

A short run business will benefit more with a dtg machine


----------



## brazukayeyo

Hello there. The way I see it now, is that these machines are very nice, but extra extra over priced !

The way I see it, the equipment being expensive, the manufacturers will make more money, with less sales. At the same time, people working in a budget like me, won't really have potential to truly compete at a high scale.

Come on, is an epson f2000 worth 15 k ? Nope. If they charged 3k, they would still make a profit.
It's the same thing with Laser Cutters, 3D printers.

Only a few years ago, you wouldn't put your hands on a real laser cutter for less than 10- 15k ... Thanks to china, you can have top notch laser cutters for 2 - 3 k, which do the same thing a 15K USA made does. I know it because I own 3 laser cutters.

What I am trying to say is. Once these machines become more popular, I am sure china will make something compatible, for less than a quarter of the price. As long as you don't mind the product's finish, the hardware will be good I'm sure.

But yeah, these small DTG's are way overpriced. 8K for an spectra 3000? please.... you will make more money buying used cars on craigslist, fixing it, and selling them lol.

I found a DTG kiosk II used semi new for 4K, and a spectra 3000 semi new for 3.5k. Semi new is what the sellers are saying of course. There's nothing to justify the price. The only reason why they price is what it is, is probably because of a patent fee, or the lack of manufacturers. So the Elite sets their price.

Just wait until china brings them in, the price will drop low


----------

