# Which embroidery machine?



## Guest (May 14, 2010)

Im about to purchase a embroidery machine. I'm looking at the meistergram pro1500 and the swf 601c. I understand that the meistergram has 15 needles and the swf has 6. To start off with I will prob not be doing any designs over 6 colors as I will be mostly doing local sports teams and local company logos with 1 to 2 colors. So the number of needles will not be a major deciding factor when I choose. Can anyone with experience with either one of these give me some advice? The lady we talked to at swf said the meistergram has constant problems and the swf 601c is compariable to the toyota. I didn't know if she was just saying that because that is their competition. She did speak highly of the toyota machines and swf doesn't sell those so i hope she was being honest about her opinion.


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## Liberty (Jul 18, 2006)

I won;t comment on these two machines but would like to add that 15 needles isn't just to sew 15 color designs. It is all about getting from one job to the next as quickly as possible. With more needles you can set one needle aside just for metallics, you can keep your common colors like black, white, red, gold and the local school colors on the machine all the time and still have those 5 or six needles that are eas to get to when you need to tie on a particular color.

I'll also add that comparing the meistergram to the 1501 SWF would be a more fair comparison. SWF had been around a while now, maybe ten years, but Meistergram has been around form the very beginning of machine embroidery.


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## Guest (May 14, 2010)

Thanks. I guess I'm looking more for peoples experience with the company and the brand to make sure there a reputable company as for as quality and customer service goes!


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

besides looking at the machine ..look at the customer support team. 

Do you have any embroidery experience?


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

The Mistergram name has been around for a long time, but the name was picked up by Consew a few years ago. So in short Mistergram is a chinese machine with an American name, SWF is made in Korea and Toyota is Japanese.


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## Guest (May 15, 2010)

No I do not have any experience. Both machines come with 3 days of training.


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

I have done the reaserch and in the process of buying a new Happy 1501 it's on the same level as toyota and tajima.


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

I have owned them all.
Happy machines cannot sew small letters on pique fabric they always look muddy.
There are no Happy techs around, you fly them in then overnight the parts, you are looking at 1,000 per fix, unless you are lucky enough to live next door to one.
Meistergram sews a zig zag stitch very rapidly, so you can sew names at more than 1,000 stitches per minute, good money, but they never look as good as a satin x/y stitch, they dont go around the corners they just go left right.
SWF machines can be fixed by Tajima techs, and although the techs are a dying breed there are more of them, and I happen to be in the same town as one, lucky me.
SWF has improved their service considerably and you can rely on them to return your call on the same day and for the most part talk you through the problem. If you purchase an embroidery machine you had better be good at fixing it as you will have to do this or be paying some big bucks or waiting a couple of weeks for someone to show up and fix it.
SWF is the least expensive and probably best value, quality of stitching is very acceptable. 15 needles is the better way to go, then you can leave black,white,red,royal,silver up there and change out the other colors as needed. Constantly not having to rethread really helps you save time. If you are buying a single head I hope you have a lot of monograms in mind as sewing a large sports left chest logo of 15,000 stitches it will take you 20 minutes, you do the math on what to charge, so you can make a living.
Tajimas single head is also very good, but more pricey.
The software SWF sells / gives you with their machine leaves a lot to be desired, it does the bare minimum. There are lots out there, I can only speak about Wilcom which is really good.
Toyota is a great machine, I ran mine for 6 years straight before trading it in. They may have changed but mine was not a bridge (think that is the term) so everything had to be hooped flat which is almost impossible for large designs.
In closing if I was to do it over I would do the SWF 1501 with Wilcom software. 

Good luck.

(I have 15 years experience and own 50 heads)


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

3 days of training is not enough (SWF gave us 4 still not enough)... Embroidery is a "big learning curve" you have to have patience and understand with the digitizing and the machine. 

Look to outsource for a little while till you get the basics down. Outsource your digitizing ($15 Flat Rate Digitizing $15 flat rate) You can take in orders > have them digitized>outsource to an embroidery company> this way you can still make money and get your customer base

Practice!! Practice!! Practice!! 

I went to JoAnn's or any sewing shop and bought several types of scrap material.
Practice on T-shirts, Polo's etc etc. Hats (a whole other enchilada) start of with flex fits (San mar has some cheap ones)

Find free Embroidery Designs to practice on these are already digitized (majority are not for hats)

I don't mean to scare you but its the reality. Once you get the hang of hooping and properly aligning the garment..you can set it and forget it. 

Things to invest in-

-Backing (Gunold USA)
-Hoopmaster (Embroidery Hooping Devices, The New Hooping Device, HoopMaster, By Midwest Products) 
-Fast Frames (Embroidery Supplies.com - Fast Frames Embroidery Hoops) 7 in 1 ~needs sticky backing
-Marking Pens

a majority of the machines comes with a starter thread set (honestly in 2 years I have used may 6 out of the 32 or whatever they give) so that helps. 

learn the type of needles that are needed for what. Almost every garment needs a different kind of needle make sure that you have the ones you need on hand. 

Gunold has a backing catalog and its great because you can physical touch the different types of backing they carry so that you know before hand. Get an account with their website and order that a catalog. 

Best of Luck!!


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## FatKat Printz (Dec 26, 2008)

helenh said:


> The software SWF sells / gives you with their machine leaves a lot to be desired, it does the bare minimum. There are lots out there, I can only speak about Wilcom which is really good.
> 
> In closing if I was to do it over I would do the SWF 1501 with Wilcom software.



I second that.. I have a SWF 1501 and Embroidery Office 9 and despise opening up my software on daily basis because I have no idea whats gonna happen. My main computer is a 64bit and it doesn't like it at all. 

I bought the Digitizing software and can't digitize anything because of the error messages, the lock ups ..just a chore

I wish I would have disgarded their software about bought Wilcom too.


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## Guest (May 15, 2010)

My plan is to outsourse the digitizing so I don't have to worry about that bc what I've learned on here it's not something that's easily learned in any amount of time. Do you think the three day training will be enough to get me going when I get home if I outsource my digitizing? From what they said the training covers a lot of trouble shooting and customer service that will walk me through any issues that might can be fixed without a tech. Once something is digitized is aligning the garment up the biggest hurdle. The machine does the rest right?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2010)

We just purchased the 15 needle Toyota. It just got here yesterday and haven't set it up yet. Been reading the manuals. Gonna attempt thus weekend hopefully!!!


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

shevie said:


> My plan is to outsourse the digitizing so I don't have to worry about that bc what I've learned on here it's not something that's easily learned in any amount of time. Do you think the three day training will be enough to get me going when I get home if I outsource my digitizing? From what they said the training covers a lot of trouble shooting and customer service that will walk me through any issues that might can be fixed without a tech. Once something is digitized is aligning the garment up the biggest hurdle. The machine does the rest right?


shevie,

Firstly, sorry for the length of this post. It is a little disjointed as well, trying to write my thoughts down as they come to mind._ So, let's begin.....

Once something is digitized is aligning the garment up the biggest hurdle. The machine does the rest right? 
_Short answer is NO.

I am not familiar with the training Toyota gives where you are, as I am in Australia. My first machine bought in 1999, was a Happy1201 (still going strong).

The training I was given for my Happy, which would be similar for other brands, covered hooping garments, threading machine, oiling and other daily tasks, monthly maintenance, basic troubleshooting, changing needles, what all the buttons do on the control panel, adjusting thread tensions, winding bobbins (unless you are going to use pre-wound), using the cap attachment, hooping bags, how to hoop for different material, what the different backings are and when to use them, stitch out a design the identify any issues, loading designs into the machine, etc, etc.

There is a lot to take in, ask questions about anything you don't uderstand - easier to get the answer when they are in front of you than leter on the phone. You can point to parts of the machine if needed while asking, hard to do that on the phone.

The software I bought as part of the deal was an extra 3-4 days training, teach you just enough to get into trouble 

Once the training is done, the biggest hurdle is remembering what they have taught you. On other embroidery forums I am a member of, they suggest you video the install, you can then replay at your leisure and listen to what the tech tells you about the different parts of the machine and the functions on the control panel etc. It is also handy to refer to when you want to refresh your memory in regards to the machine.

then the fun begins....practice, practice, practice...oh and did I mention practice 

There will be days you wish you had never bought the devil spawn that is your machine, and there will be others that will make you glad you did.
I am not trying to scare you, just telling how it is.
In the early days it is a steep learning curve.

Stitch out a design you know runs well. Then when you practice hooping you can see where your hooping technique is at fault.

Most issues with embroidery machines can be traced back to operator error. Thread tension not right, bobbin tension not right, loose hooping, wrong size hoop, not oiling machine (most common)... these are just a few things that can ruin a job and/or your day.

During your early days, you may have frame strikes. This is when the design is to large for the frame you have used and the needle impacts the frame. This will at the least, give you broken needles. At the other end of the scale, bent needle bars and broken reciprocators (not a cheap fix).

That's it for now...more later.

I'll go back to my corner and rest for a while...mine brain hurts after all this thinking...


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## helenh (Dec 30, 2007)

shevie said:


> My plan is to outsourse the digitizing so I don't have to worry about that bc what I've learned on here it's not something that's easily learned in any amount of time. Do you think the three day training will be enough to get me going when I get home if I outsource my digitizing? From what they said the training covers a lot of trouble shooting and customer service that will walk me through any issues that might can be fixed without a tech. Once something is digitized is aligning the garment up the biggest hurdle. The machine does the rest right?


I definiately recommend outsourcing the digitizing. You can get it so cheap now. Concentrate on getting businesses. If you get a larger order, oursource to a contract house. Dont get into the trap of working 15 hour days. Do the names and monograms youself and the 24 piece orders. ANything over that oursource to a contract person. We pay 12 to 20 per logo. Something that would take an hour to do, if you were skilled, I would rather pay and mark it up.
Good luck.


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## vgary (Mar 31, 2010)

I love my SWF's! I have a 1201 compact bought in 2002, runs great although I really do not use it much anymore since purchasing my SWF Dual 4 head. I can run 2 different designs at the same time x 2 heads each. I use Generations Emboridery software found at generationsemb.com. It is very reasonable and user friendly. I only use it to add lettering to stock designs or just lettering, everything else I farm out to the pros. You will never be sorry you opted for more needles. I keep my 15 needle machines loaded with standard colors and only change out if a customer needs a particular color. I give SWF thumbs up for realiabilty, service and price.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

I have talked to several people about machines and have gotten different responses than what was given here. I tlaed to 3 that have the swf and they said they loved them, no learning curve and then one that has a brother 600 or something and also said no learning curve and loves it, although another brother 600 owner hates hers, but she has problems with most of her machines ( Nothing bad against her)
What does everyone charge? My lady that does mine right now charges me the same as she does her customers so I really cannot compete, because she does nto give me contract pricing.

Thinking of getting an swf hopefully soon


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

martinwoods said:


> What does everyone charge? My lady that does mine right now charges me the same as she does her customers so I really cannot compete, because she does nto give me contract pricing.
> 
> Thinking of getting an swf hopefully soon


Chris,

I have a happy single head and a SWF 4 head, love both of them. Both are 10yrs old and going strong.

As to what to charge - everyone is different. My cost to produce embroidery is going to be different to yours. If I own all my equipment and you don't, then you need to charge extra to account for loan payments where I don't.

Jimmy Lamb has a very good article on pricing here ---> Embroidery Cost Analysis & Pricing

Well worth a look and download the zip files and excel spreadsheets to help work out your costs.

There are other articles here ---> Business and Management


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## tfalk (Apr 3, 2008)

I have 2 PR600's and an SWF-E/1501T. Different learning curve for each... the Brother is more user friendly, the SWF has more capabilities but isn't as user friendly. They each have their purpose...


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2010)

Thanks for all the helpful info! I have played around with the machine and have not had any major problems as of yet. Sent out a logo to be digitized and stitched it out. Looks great! Only problem I have run into so far is thread breaks, which so far have been easy to fix. I've made it a habit to "trace" all my work before starting the job just to make sure I don't hit my hoops. Digitizing will definatly be outsourced bc I don't want to even think about learning that right now until I get the machine learned.


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## martinwoods (Jul 20, 2006)

bungy said:


> Chris,
> 
> I have a happy single head and a SWF 4 head, love both of them. Both are 10yrs old and going strong.
> 
> ...


Just say I own my equipment which I hope to in a few weeks what do charge per stitches?
The person use right now charges me $1.00 per thousand but that is also what she charges her clients, so if they find her before coming to me I do not stand a chance because I would have to up my price since she does not offer any type of contract pricing


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## laz0924 (Jun 25, 2009)

You need to charge based on your business overhead everybody's is different, what does it cost you to produce a garment. Then charge based on that, since she dosen't give you a discount then charge .75 per thousand to get some business then after a while adjust your price. Make sense?


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## muneca (Sep 30, 2008)

i was told the Tajima was the best machine. expensive...but, it's supposed to be the best.


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## JAF (Oct 12, 2008)

I own a 13yr old Tajima, single head & 7yr old Barudan, 4 head. Never any problems with either of them.
Look at where the techs are that service the equipment. Zone charges can be expensive.


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

muneca said:


> i was told the Tajima was the best machine. expensive...but, it's supposed to be the best.


Maybe years ago they were considered the best.
But, today I wouldn't say they are the best.

A drop off in build quality over the last few years has brought them back to the pack.

SWF is just a Tajima knock off (mechanically), many parts are interchangeable.

All the well known brands are pretty close in stitch quality these days. As long as you are happy with the way it stitches and the distributor looks after you after the sale is made, then that is all that really counts.


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## bungy (Aug 24, 2006)

martinwoods said:


> Just say I own my equipment which I hope to in a few weeks what do charge per stitches?
> The person use right now charges me $1.00 per thousand but that is also what she charges her clients, so if they find her before coming to me I do not stand a chance because I would have to up my price since she does not offer any type of contract pricing


Only you can answer that question.

When you say, own your equipment - do you mean you will have finished paying it off and own it outright?

You still need to work out what it costs you to produce the embroidery. This $1.00 per thousand has been around since I started in 1999.
As far as I can tell, it doesn't have any substance as such. Just a number plucked out of the air and used.

Back in 1999, I did the sums and was suprised to find I needed to charge $2.00 per thousand using a single head machine to pay the bills and not have to have a second job.

Today I have a 4head & 1head - my costs per thousand is now 40c assuming the machines are running all day everyday. if not, I charge $1.65 per thousand or one's and two's. If I don't I don't make any money.

All amounts are in AUD convert to your local currency.

The attached are spreadsheet screenshots of some figures for costing.

One is of costs that will give you $1.00 per thousand.
If your costs are more then you need to charge more.
If your costs are less, have a look at why, but charge $1.00 per thousand and pocket the profit.

The other image is some ballpark costings if you have a 4head, as you can see - big difference.

Your own costings will be different, but you get the idea.

Of note, look at paycheck in both images, and at hourly rate.

I have started to go away from $X per thousand and charge hourly rate.
Currently my shop rate is around $80.00 per hour (gotta pay staff as well).
40hr week x $80hr = $3200 a week gross approx.
On top of that is any profit on supplying the garments instead of just doing the decoration.

Scenario, someone brings in 4 jackets and wants the backs done, it takes an hour to stitch the design, it takes 30min to hoop garments before run unhoop and trim after, fold etc, run it on the 4head and charge $30.00 ea (1.5hrs @ $80.00per hour) plus design seup. The same 4 jackets, but they want just a front left chest business logo - design takes 15minutes to run and 5min to hoop unhoop & trim fold etc - charge $5.00ea (.25hr @$80hr) plus design setup.

Both these methods assume that your machines are running all day everyday. If not then your price needs to be increased to accomodate slow days.


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## Paints2 (Jun 26, 2008)

Congrats on purchasing the Toyota, Shevie. I have the ESP 9100 and love it. Before that, I owned the ESP9000. I also have a home machine, the Husqvarna. I bought my Toyota in Florida where they give you 3 days of training... but you can come back as many times as you want the first year for 'refresher' training at no additional cost. The only time I had a problem with the machine was operator-error: I hit the hoop and knocked the timing off. I got out the manual and fixed it. Tech support from the FL people are great, too.


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