# Spectra cut II or Thermo-flex plus??



## bones (Oct 25, 2006)

Spectra cut II or Thermo-flex plus??

Which do you prefer?

bones


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

I've only used spectracut ii, but it's pretty easy to use. I've heard good things about both vinyl brands.


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

I have used Spectra Cut II and Spectra Cut.

I attempted to weed this from Spectra Cut









I had to give up after 30 minutes of weeding (all of the details were tearing off). I attempted two of the same cuts... no dice.

The design above was weeded out of Spectra Cut II in about 5 minutes without any loss of details (Including the small fuzz on the chin!)
===

I have never used the Thermo-flex plus. I can only give my experience with Spectra Cut and Spectra Cut II


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

That is a simple weed with thermoflex plus or regular sign vinyl. Why was it a problem with spectra cut?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I've used them both and prefer spectra cut II myself. .... JB


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## CoolTech (Feb 3, 2007)

MotoskinGraphix said:


> That is a simple weed with thermoflex plus or regular sign vinyl. Why was it a problem with spectra cut?


It continued to pull all the detail up.

I did a total of 3 copies of this graphic. 2 - Spectra Cut and one with Spectra Cut II. All settings were the same, just a different material...

I was even using the Exacto in an attempt to hold down the thinner graphics, but it still pulled most of them right off the mylar. Even the bull's horns were coming off the mylar... hmmmm

Spectra Cut II... not even an issue


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

_ use thermoflex plus and am not so sure the same product isnt the same product under a different brand. I think there are very few companys that actually manufacture this material. The brand names and actual product are probably the same element. I actually think its the same freakin crap from one source!!!!_


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

You could be right David, too bad we can't find out for sure. I had not thought of that though. That gives me something to research. ... JB


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## bones (Oct 25, 2006)

so far 3 votes spectra one vote thermo.......


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

Well I have used both. I like Spectra cut II and yes you need to be a Little more gentle in weeding. I have had parts lift off. Themoflex has a a more sticky backing. However the price is a lot higher. I would use either without hesitation. But I guess I lean slightly toward spectra cut II as that is what I used the most and are familiar with its use. Lou


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## aamon17 (Jan 30, 2007)

I use Spectra Cut II. It weeds very easily. And it costs less.

*I'm not sure if ThermoFlex Plus is actually the same material as Spectra, repackaged under a different name. But, I do believe the Spectra material is the same as the *Stahls* stuff.


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## JoshEllsworth (Dec 14, 2005)

Spectra is Spectra

Although there are some likenesses it is not the same as Thermoflex or Stahls materials...


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## lgiglio1 (Sep 29, 2006)

I have used both. I love the feel of the spectra cut, but sometimes, being a cold peel, I have trouble with it. It usually turns out fine, but it is a little harder for me to deal with. I always prefer a hot peel if I can do it. Much easier and quicker. I have used thermo grip from Stahls and I think it is awesome. It peels right off, quick and easy. It seems to be a little bit heavier and to a little bit more of a sporty feeel and look. So it really depends on what you are using it for. For a basic t-shirt front design, I like the spectra cut. For sweatpants, numbers, names on the back of hoodies, shirts, etc. I have preferred the thermogrip.

Both companies have been great to deal with.

Hope that helps.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

lgiglio1 said:


> I have used both. I love the feel of the spectra cut, but sometimes, being a cold peel, I have trouble with it. It usually turns out fine, but it is a little harder for me to deal with. I always prefer a hot peel if I can do it. Much easier and quicker. I have used thermo grip from Stahls and I think it is awesome. It peels right off, quick and easy. It seems to be a little bit heavier and to a little bit more of a sporty feeel and look. So it really depends on what you are using it for. For a basic t-shirt front design, I like the spectra cut. For sweatpants, numbers, names on the back of hoodies, shirts, etc. I have preferred the thermogrip.
> 
> Both companies have been great to deal with.
> 
> Hope that helps.


That definitely helps me 

I really like the idea of a hot peel vinyl, but the thicker part would be best used for athletic type designs like you stated.


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## bones (Oct 25, 2006)

Hi folks! just a quick update for ya. I got some thermo-flex plus from my supplier and did my first shirt tonight. I have to tell that that I like it! The only thing I have to compare it to is sign vinyl but as far as weeding goes.....this stuff rocks. I messed up the first transfer by not mirroring so I decided to give it the ol suicide rip to see if it would pass the weeding test. WOW

BTW the one shirt press turned into shirts and now I have nothing left to press.....hmmm.........gotta go find more shirts!!

Thank you again for the heads up!

bones


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> I messed up the first transfer by not mirroring


I hate it when that happened. I did that on my birthday when I was making shirts for some friends. I thought I would get fancy and do 4 shirts at a time and send all 4 to the cutter at once. All 4 weren't mirrored


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

It's nice to hear we all have brain failure occasionally. I printed and then pressed 6 cups wrong. I'm truly glad I'm not alone. ..... lolololol. .... JB


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## bac (Jun 19, 2006)

Rodney said:


> I hate it when that happened.


I think we've all been there, Rodney!  

... Brad


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I've used both and ThermoFlex Plus is hands down the choice for me. And they are definitely not the same thing. I began using Spectra Cut II because that's what I'd heard people talk about most, and almost gave up on vinyl all together. It's very difficult to weed, and if you accidentally pull a piece off that's not supposed to come up, it's very difficult to get it to stick back on the backing.

I've had numerous problems using SpectraCut materials. I even had one where the backing would not peel off the vinyl and ruined a $20 hoodie  I did a job of 15 nylon wind shirts and used the SpectraCut Plus, and I just got a report that one of the #'s peeled off. I also did a sample on a polyester basketball jersey and it's begun to peel off. I even tried the DuraCut, which is supposed to be made from plastisol, that you can cut on a vinyl cutter. I used it for the #'s on our teams softball jerseys, and after a few washes, my # looks terrible. It's cracked all over and has lots of pieces come off. I'll have to post a picture of it. All of this was very frustrating and represents my business very poorly.

Before giving up on vinyl, I decided to give ThermoFlex a try it's been awesome. I haven't had a single problem with ThermoFlex. And it even feels better and softer on the shirt. The backing peels off very easily and does not rip the vinyl off the shirt. I did a whole set of basketball jerseys with this stuff and haven't had any problems. It's a little more expensive, but when you consider the alternative... I just hope the customers that I used the Spectra material on give me another chance. I probably wouldn't if I were them.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

bones said:


> so far 3 votes spectra one vote thermo.......


Add another vote for ThermoFlex........

I've used both (on the same design) and the ThermoFlex peels better, sticks better and weeds better...in my opinion.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

I have used thermoflex plus for about three years now and really like the stuff. The best part is that temps can very as with pressure and it never fails me. The only issues as with any heat applied vinyl are very sharp points or thin small letters due to less available glue per area. I have some samples of the spectra products but havent had the chance to play with them.

Since I have had no real problems...why fix what isnt broken.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I was using both again tonight on a multi-color vinyl design, and thought I'd share some notes. One of the colors was SpectraCut II (black) and the other was ThermoFlex (gray). And just a disclaimer (because I feel like I have to now), I am not bashing any product; I'm just sharing some more of the differences that I noticed in using both.

Although both of these are vinyl, these 2 products seem to be very different. The ThermoFlex is applied using HIGH pressure, higher temperature (345-350) and a longer dwell time (20 sec). The SpectraCut is applied using LIGHT pressure, lower temp (302), and shorter dwell (10-15 sec). Because of the high pressures used on ThermoFlex (you can really crank down on it), the vinyl seems to actually begin to take on the texture of the shirt, which I like. It really seems to sink into the material and have a very soft hand for vinyl. You can also peel it hot, and it's very easy to peel, and the vinyl seems to be really bonded with the shirt after the first press.

For the SpectraCut II, the light pressure seems to cause the vinyl to "sit on top" of the shirt and have a smooth surface after the first press. You must let SpectraCut II cool completely before peeling. When I peeled it, it did not seem to want to let go of the vinyl. I was always very nervous peeling it because it feels like it's pulling the vinyl off the the shirt, and actually did pull sections of it loose in a couple areas. However the SpectraCut II calls for a 2nd press that I'm assuming secures the vinyl back down to the shirt.

The ThermoFlex does not require 2nd pressing, and does not seem to need it. However I would press it a final time anyway just for good measure. The ThermoFlex backing has a tacky substance on it (kind of like tape) that holds the vinyl onto the backing, but the tack easily releases the vinyl when peeling hot. Also if you have a soft cotton shirt, when you peel the backing off the shirt it will kind of pull up the fibers and make it appear fuzzy. I don't think this is a permanent issue, but is sometimes noticeable. It was not noticeable on the Gildan Ultra's I was using but was noticeable on another store bought infant onesie I did. I think once it's washed, the fuzziness will be gone. It's basically just like putting some real sticky tape on a shirt and then pulling it off. This sticky backing can be a little irritating at times also because it sticks to everything it touches prior to applying it. So if you stack your designs, you have to peel each one off before applying... not really that big of a deal I guess. It also makes weeding a little more tedious because the backing is always sticking your hand when you rest it on the backing. However the ThermoFlex seems to require a lighter pull to weed than the SpectraCut II, which is probably also related to the reason that the ThermoFlex peels off the shirt much easier after applying.

Both seem to be adhered to the shirts for now, and hopefully will stay that way. So that's some of the differences I've seen.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Both seem to be adhered to the shirts for now, and hopefully will stay that way. So that's some of the differences I've seen.


Thanks for reporting the differences  I read in another thread about thermoflex having a much heavier feel than the spectracut II. 

Was that what you found as well, or did it seem about the same "thickness" by having the heavy pressure on the press for the thermoflex?

I like the idea of hot peel, but I wouldn't want the design to feel heavy on the shirt (unless I was doing athletic numbering or something).


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Rodney said:


> I read in another thread about thermoflex having a much heavier feel than the spectracut II.
> 
> Was that what you found as well, or did it seem about the same "thickness" by having the heavy pressure on the press for the thermoflex?
> 
> I like the idea of hot peel, but I wouldn't want the design to feel heavy on the shirt (unless I was doing athletic numbering or something).


I would not describe either of them as "heavy". They both seem pretty thin. The ThermoFlex seemed softer after being applied, and seemed to have less hand if you were to close your eyes and run you hand across both designs.

ThermoFlex does carry a version called ThermoFlex Sport which is supposed to be thicker and more durable. I have not tried it yet, but plan on trying it soon. I actually used the regular ThermoFlex on some basketball jerseys a couple months ago and I was concerned that it was too thin and might not be durable enough. I haven't heard anything back from them, but probably should call to see how they have held up. But anyway, I don't think you would have any trouble with it having a heavy feel.


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

rusty said:


> And just a disclaimer (because I feel like I have to now), I am not bashing any product; I'm just sharing some more of the differences that I noticed in using both.


I think we made our point.... 



> Although both of these are vinyl, these 2 products seem to be very different. The ThermoFlex is applied using HIGH pressure, higher temperature (345-350) and a longer dwell time (20 sec). The SpectraCut is applied using LIGHT pressure, lower temp (302), and shorter dwell (10-15 sec). Because of the high pressures used on ThermoFlex (you can really crank down on it), the vinyl seems to actually begin to take on the texture of the shirt, which I like. It really seems to sink into the material and have a very soft hand for vinyl. You can also peel it hot, and it's very easy to peel, and the vinyl seems to be really bonded with the shirt after the first press.
> 
> For the SpectraCut II, the light pressure seems to cause the vinyl to "sit on top" of the shirt and have a smooth surface after the first press. You must let SpectraCut II cool completely before peeling. When I peeled it, it did not seem to want to let go of the vinyl. I was always very nervous peeling it because it feels like it's pulling the vinyl off the the shirt, and actually did pull sections of it loose in a couple areas. However the SpectraCut II calls for a 2nd press that I'm assuming secures the vinyl back down to the shirt.


This describes my experience to a "T".....



> This sticky backing can be a little irritating at times also because it sticks to everything it touches prior to applying it. So if you stack your designs, you have to peel each one off before applying... not really that big of a deal I guess. It also makes weeding a little more tedious because the backing is always sticking your hand when you rest it on the backing.


Agreed there. You also have to be careful about debris sticking to the backing and then transferring to the shirt.



> However the ThermoFlex seems to require a lighter pull to weed than the SpectraCut II, which is probably also related to the reason that the ThermoFlex peels off the shirt much easier after applying.


Same experience as well.....


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

Does anyone know where to get Thermo-flex plus in rolls wider than 15" at a reasonable price? The extra 4" with the Spectra Cut II is very nice for ganging designs.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

I have not seen any wider than 15". But I haven't really looked for any either. I get mine from Graphic Solutions Group. You might drop them a call or email and see if they know.


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

I know this discussion is about Spectra Cut II and ThermoFlex Plus, but how do the Twill USA and Stahls products compare?


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

I have used stahls vinyl and it works great.It's al ittle thicker than spectra.If I was using for a nameor for a jersey then the thicker stuff is good ,but for full front designe and designs people want to be more like screen print thinner is better. .....JB


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

rusty said:


> I have not seen any wider than 15". But I haven't really looked for any either. I get mine from Graphic Solutions Group. You might drop them a call or email and see if they know.


Here is one place I found but haven't dealt with....

pricesheetforapparelvinyl


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## aamon17 (Jan 30, 2007)

I've read about all of the problems a couple folks have described when using Spectra Cut II & I'm a bit miffed. 

I use it exclusively and with the same settings each time: 

*305 degree temp*
*light/medium pressure, 1st press*
*15 seconds dwell time, 1st press*
*peel WARM or COLD*
*Cover with PARCHMENT PAPER. (not teflon)*
*HEAVY pressure, 2nd press*
*10 seconds dwell time, 2nd press*
*Voila! A Perfect, soft-hand, matte print!*
Granted, the vinyl does adhear to the mylar carrier quite well, but it requires minimal effort to weed. I have done large cuts & small detailed cuts, both with great success. The only time I've run into weeding problems is when my font was WAYYY to small or my lines (ending in a point, not boxed off) were less than .5 point. That was my fault & I corrected the design to compensate.

Some prefer the sticky carrier. I do not. The Spectra foil products have that really sticky carrier. Everytime I'm weeding the stuff, I have to becareful not to let the weeded parts fall back & stick to the exposed adhesive. It's quite annoying. But, my customers pay dearly for the foil stuff! ;-) 

Nonetheless, I'm willing to try the ThermoFlex product, if someone can point me to some free samples! Other than that, it's Spectra Cut II for me!!!

Aamon


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

thanks Aamon for the info, I have had no issues either. ...... JB


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

I initially had the problems that others listed on this page when I switched from Thermo Flex to Spectra Cut II, specifically the design sticking to the mylar and not the shirt. When I lightened up my pressure and verified temp, basically following the same procedure as Aamon I have not had a problem. When I say lightened up my pressure, I mean light, you can almost pull the shirt out of the press when it is closed, but the vinyl sticks to the shirt every time, and the mylar comes off clean.

I love the way Spectra weeds over Thermoflex, I too do not like the sticky mylar. Initially I preferred being able to hot peel Thermoflex, but now I have incorporated cold peel into my workflow I actually prefer it. Some say that Thermoflex doesn't need a second press, but I have had better results with it when I do. Spectra I always give a double press and the second press is heavy with teflon.

If Thermoflex was the same price or less then Spectra or if I started having problems with the Spectra coming off, I would likely go back to Thermoflex, or try something else.

Just my $0.02.

Best Regards,
Lloyd





aamon17 said:


> I've read about all of the problems a couple folks have described when using Spectra Cut II & I'm a bit miffed.
> 
> I use it exclusively and with the same settings each time:
> *305 degree temp*
> ...


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## treadhead (Jul 26, 2006)

aamon17 said:


> *Cover with PARCHMENT PAPER. (not teflon)*


I've never used parchment paper? I'm going to give that a try and follow these steps exactly and see how it does.

Another thought about the parchment paper. I wonder if it would eliminate the "glossy" look you get with a second press on cold peel plastisol transfers vs. using a teflon sheet??? hmmmm...just curious 

Thanks Aamon.....


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## badalou (Mar 19, 2006)

I had to get some yellow vinyl quickly so I went up to a local place (100 mile round trip) and bought some thermaflex. here is what I don't like. it is not the vinyl it is the cost. First it is only 15 inches compared to Spectra II 19" So you getting a lot more bang for your buck with Spectra II. I figured if I did a 12 x 12 design it would cost me 81 cents more with the Therm0flex. It also only lease 3 inches to do something with. I get 6 inches left with Spectra and I can do a lot with that. I am not in this business not to make money and it makes since to use the spectra II. Also I can gang more on the spectra II. I get more waste from Thermoflex My 3 cents (inflation)


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

Hey Lou thanks for your 3 cents worth.... I like spectra for the same reason. I can get thermaflex 20 miles form home, but it's more your money with spectra. ......JB


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

That's very true about the cost. I just did a cost comparison of all the vinyls I'm aware of, and ThermoFlex is easily the most expensive per square foot. ThermoFlex came in at about $2.07/sqft, while SpectraCut II was $1.42/sqft. So it definitely makes business sense if you have success with it. For me personally, I can buy ThermoFlex locally so I don't have to pay shipping, which evens the cost up a little.

One other that I just ordered is SportFilm from TwillUSA. I've never used it, so I don't know if it's thin enough for regular T-shirt use, but it prices out at about $1.15/sqft. Being that cheap, it was worth a try. That's almost half the price of ThermoFlex.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

My supplier in Houston delivers right to my front door free of charge. I order a roll of thermoflex on the phone and its on my porch the next day. I also like the 15" widths for doing our roadshows. Many times I am switching colors on the fly and going back and forth between sign vinyl and heatpress vinyl. I try and gang as much as possible but time is an important factor and just as valuble as materials. I do so many 12.5"x2.5" logos the 2 inches of waste isnt a factor. If I have a pocket logo and a back logo there is zero waste. I would have all kinds of extra bits and pcs. to keep up with using larger rolls. The same principle with sign vinyl on the road shows...roll size to fit what my customers purchase. Its easy to gang with time and numerous same or similar designs. When doing oneoff customs on the fly print on demand the smaller size rolls actually save money.


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## aamon17 (Jan 30, 2007)

treadhead said:


> Another thought about the parchment paper. I wonder if it would eliminate the "glossy" look you get with a second press on cold peel plastisol transfers vs. using a teflon sheet??? hmmmm...just curious
> 
> Thanks Aamon.....


You're welcome. I tried using parchment paper to re-press some plastitol transfers . . . the ink comes off onto the paper!  Granted, I did pull it right off while it was hot, not thinking it would need to cool off. I wouldn't want to wait around for a second pressing to get cold enough to peel it!

On another note, I was cutting some WHITE & CREAM Spectra II last night. I'm noticing that those 2 colors are much more difficult to start weeding & to pull off altogether. I use RED, ROYAL, YELLOW, GREEN, OLD GOLD, VEGAS GOLD, & BLACK regularly too. But, only the white & cream give me more of a challenge. They cut exactly the same, with no increased downforce. But, weeding is different.


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

Where is everybody getting their parchment paper and how much does it cost? I bought some at Walmart and the biggest roll they had was only about 12 or 20ft. On one of the forums someone mentioned wax free deli paper, is this the same thing?


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## aamon17 (Jan 30, 2007)

RestoringYourMem said:


> Where is everybody getting their parchment paper and how much does it cost? I bought some at Walmart and the biggest roll they had was only about 12 or 20ft. On one of the forums someone mentioned wax free deli paper, is this the same thing?


I get mine from Vinyl Cutters, heat presses, heat transfer material, transfer papers and heat printing supplies all at affordable prices. . . . 15x19 size . . . 25 sheet/pack . . . $12.50! Here's the direct link: Vinyl Cutters, heat presses, heat transfer material, transfer papers and heat printing supplies all at affordable prices.


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

Craft paper and you can get it at Hobby stores like Hobby Lobby or Michaels. If you have a vinyl cutter you can use the paper backing from sign vinyl coated side down on your plastisol prints.


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## RestoringYourMem (Aug 30, 2006)

aamon17 said:


> I get mine from Vinyl Cutters, heat presses, heat transfer material, transfer papers and heat printing supplies all at affordable prices. . . . 15x19 size . . . 25 sheet/pack . . . $12.50! Here's the direct link: Vinyl Cutters, heat presses, heat transfer material, transfer papers and heat printing supplies all at affordable prices.


Is the Kraft paper from Imprintables really the same as parchment paper? I thought parchment paper was silicon coated, at least the baking paper is. How many times can you use a sheet before you throw it out?

Thanks
Lloyd


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

The term has always been craft paper...folks have just picked up on parchment paper for some reason.


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## Air Art Girl (Mar 29, 2007)

I use Thermoflex. Mainly Thermoflex Plus. My distributor carries 15" and 24". I believe you can also get plus with the non sticky mylar too. I use Thermoflex Extra on my nylon garments. It does not have the sticky backing. My distributor also ships with no charge. Not sure if they do that for all customers but we buy most of our sign supplies there too. Western Wholesale - Kent, WA


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## stitchedandstamp (May 26, 2006)

You look like the person I need to ask. I just got a Roland cutter and my son is needing shirts for a softball team. They want a pretty complex design of a beaver, I have the clipart, but don't really know what to do. The design has a lot of small lines, etc. in it and not sure what to weed and what not to weed. Any help?


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## MotoskinGraphix (Apr 28, 2006)

stitchedandstamp said:


> You look like the person I need to ask. I just got a Roland cutter and my son is needing shirts for a softball team. They want a pretty complex design of a beaver, I have the clipart, but don't really know what to do. The design has a lot of small lines, etc. in it and not sure what to weed and what not to weed. Any help?


I assume your clip art is black and white. Print the design first for a referanceon your printer and then cut, when you weed it, all the black lines stay and the white areas go away. I hope thats not so confusing.


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## stitchedandstamp (May 26, 2006)

Sorry I'm just a newbie, but it's a vector image and when I use the cut studio to do the outline, it just does a few of the lines. What am I doing wrong? I do have Corel but not very good with that either.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

CutStudio is not very good for tracing detailed things. I don't know if Corel will trace, but Illustrator CS2 does, which is what I use. You might try The Vector Doctor: Raster To Vector and Typesetting Services to do it for you if it's a complicated design.


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## cropp1 (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm just impressed with the design, I have never even attempted something like that with any material!


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## FAT DADDY (Sep 4, 2008)

which has more of a silk screen feel spectra eco or thermo


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## ToughJourneyman (Sep 26, 2012)

Are there any new and affordable vinyl for t-shirts that you guys prefer now that its 2013 ?


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