# need help!! - I calculated my plastisol transfer pricing wrong and underbid



## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

Looking for help!! I underbid this job to my cust. I was going to use sreen printed transfers from transfer express. I figured my cost for the transfers wrong. I need to do twenty t's and I quoted $8.00 each finished. Transfers are way to expensive for only 20. Any suggestions? Is it possable to do this logo with vinyl to save me?? The logo is a 3 color chest size.

Thanks for any help!!
Brian


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## SBEMedia (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: need help!!*

What colors of shirts do you need? Black, white?


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

red t's. mine


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

logo is red,blk, wh.on red t's


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## SBEMedia (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: need help!!*

Do you have a sample logo you could post?


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

I'm having trouble getting it to upload


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

Here is the logo


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

That would only be 2 colors as it looks like the lettering is the backround of the shirt.


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

it could be blk, wh. on red t-shirt showing through


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## SBEMedia (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: need help!!*

Under a worse case scenario, tell the client you underbid the project but are still willing to do it even at a loss, but in the future you won't be able to fulfill the orders for the same price.


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

I need to order a min. of $240.00 worth of transfers at the min.


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

I would totally be honest with the client and fulfill the order as promised, sbmedia is right about that. The thing about honesty is it builds trust and long term clients. We learn the greatest lessons from experience  I totally think you could probably get someone to cut the vinyl for you at a reasonable price. Do you have a cutter? If not you can always post a thread in the referrals section of the forum and see if there is a member that can do it for a price you can live with


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

I have a cutter. Can this be done in vinyl? chest size or take a $60.00 loss from the transfers?


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

sorry $80.00 loss


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## SBEMedia (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: need help!!*

What kind of cutter do you have?


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

roland gx24


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## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

How big is the design ? it looks like it wouldnt be to hard to cut that, as it looks like it has pretty simple lines.


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

4.5" wide------


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## SBEMedia (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: need help!!*

Then you're solid, just make sure you really watch the lines that it creates in the software...


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

Thanks so very much for your help!!! Need to go to bed!!


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: need help!!*



embroider4 said:


> I need to order a min. of $240.00 worth of transfers at the min.


There have got to be other transfer printers with lower minimums than that.


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: need help!!*

Maybe I'm confused but wouldn't it make more sense to go with 2 color plastisol (white & black)? Using F&M's smallest size (4 x 6") would cost you $2.32 each if you order 24 transfers.


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

I could get by with two color. Who has low min.?


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

Thanks for your help. F&M SOUNDS GREAT!!


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## queerrep (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: need help!!*

Brian: if you haven't already found it, here is the pricing and website for F&M: spot color plastisol transfers


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: need help!!*

I talked to them. Thanks. This forum is a life saver!!


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## brentonchad (Aug 24, 2007)

Briand,

I'd go with vinyl. The hand will be the same as FM and each will run you about .50 Figure about an hour to weed - this is a pretty simple design to weed. So with two hours of work and a cost of ~$3 for the finished product your looking at $110 cost (I figured $25 bucks an hour for time). With FM your looking at about $105 just for shirts and transfers - not counting time.

chad


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## embroider4 (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks, I'll try vinyl


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

brentonchad said:


> Briand,
> 
> I'd go with vinyl. The hand will be the same as FM and each will run you about .50 Figure about an hour to weed - this is a pretty simple design to weed. So with two hours of work and a cost of ~$3 for the finished product your looking at $110 cost (I figured $25 bucks an hour for time). With FM your looking at about $105 just for shirts and transfers - not counting time.
> 
> chad


Wait, your post is misleading.
First, vinyl is not the same hand as an F&M transfer - vinyl is much heavier.
Second, the cost from F&M would about $65 including shipping.
Third, in the time it would take to weed the vinyl I would have all 24 shirts done.


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## brentonchad (Aug 24, 2007)

I disagree on the hand. I have fm freedom transfers and I have vinyl and the hand is the same or softer with vinyl depending on the app. 
See below for breakdown as time was accounted for. Weeding this would really only take about 30 mins but I allocated 1 hr.

*Vinyl*
Cost of Vinyl - 20 *.50 = $10
Cost of Shirts - 20 * 2.5 = 50
2 Hours labor (order,weed and apply) = 2*$25 = $50

*Grand total = $110*

*FM*
Cost of transfers = 24*2.32 = 55.68
Cost of Shipping = $10
Cost of Shirts = 20 * 2.5 = $50
1 hr Labor = $25

*Grand Total = $140.68*


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

brentonchad said:


> I disagree on the hand.


F&M does have athletic style transfers which are nearly as heavy as vinyl but the fashion style are much softer. 

And actually your vinyl only comes out cheaper because your hourly rate is cheap. I bill $60/hr; so for me its about break even.


*Vinyl*
Cost of Vinyl - 20 *.50 = $10
Cost of Shirts - 20 * 2.5 = 50
2 Hours labor (order,weed and apply) = 2*$60 = $120

*Grand total = $180*

*FM*
Cost of transfers = 24*2.32 = 55.68
Cost of Shipping = $10
Cost of Shirts = 20 * 2.5 = $50
1 hr Labor = $60

*Grand Total = $175.68*


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

wormil said:


> F&M does have athletic style transfers which are nearly as heavy as vinyl but the fashion style are much softer.
> 
> And actually your vinyl only comes out cheaper because your hourly rate is cheap. I bill $60/hr; so for me its about break even.
> 
> ...


I agree with Rick if you change the labor rate then it's about the same. If your rate is less then the cost is different. It's a hard lesson to learn and sometimes costly to under bid, but you will only do it once. ... JB


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## brentonchad (Aug 24, 2007)

Taking those numbers then you guys can't turn a profit on 20 shirts at 10 bucks each - well minimum profit. In my market if I can't do 10 or less then I'll get beat up by the competitors. Average rate for a run of 12 shirts with front print, name and number on back is less than $10. With $60 an hour labor rates for production you can't turn a profit. If you figure you need to charge $60 bucks labor to cover costs then your operating costs for a month are $9600 bucks - wow!! 

Artwork and design in this area are only $40.


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## stickerguynyc (Apr 18, 2008)

how big is the logo?? how big is the lettering? maybe i could help you out and cut them for you....

I have heat transfer vinyl... but if the lettering is too small i can't make it..


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

If it takes you guys 2 hrs to weed 24 4.5" heatpress vinyl decals you better quit the heatpress vinyl business. LMAO, I could cut and weed them all in 1/2 hr tops. I mean it's an oval with a few words. Cut the black and weed it while the white is cutting, then weed the white, all while the press is warming up.


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## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

> Average rate for a run of 12 shirts with front print, name and number on back is less than $10


Wow, under $10 for a run of 12 with name/number drops. That's seems way cheap. Does that include the cost of the garment as well?


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

brentonchad said:


> If you figure you need to charge $60 bucks labor to cover costs then your operating costs for a month are $9600 bucks - wow!!
> 
> Artwork and design in this area are only $40.


If my cost was $60/hr I would have to bill much more than that. The $60 is what I bill for my production time. 

I charge $45/hr for layout and I'm flexible on that since I'm not a designer. Professional design work around here starts at $120/hr although you can hire amateurs for much less.

Once I reach a saturation point with business then I'll just charge one flat hourly wage and it will probably be higher than $60/hr.


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## stickerguynyc (Apr 18, 2008)

it is a little cheap but still could make money if you make the whole process and if you are fast...for 20 t shirt i could have them done with vinyl in 1.5 hours max. maybe less.. last time i made 16 t shirt front and back 2 color each took me 2 hours.


for $8 a t shirt x 20 is $160 total

20 t shirt $40
3 Ft heat transfer material is $12

so left $108 for your time. it should take you 2hors so $54 per hour it's not bad..

If you want better price send it out for screen print

you need 2 screen $20 each total $40
2 color print $1 each $40
so total is $80

so still making $80


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

wormil said:


> If my cost was $60/hr I would have to bill much more than that. The $60 is what I bill for my production time.
> 
> I charge $45/hr for layout and I'm flexible on that since I'm not a designer. Professional design work around here starts at $120/hr although you can hire amateurs for much less.
> 
> Once I reach a saturation point with business then I'll just charge one flat hourly wage and it will probably be higher than $60/hr.


 What my hourly shop charge is has nothing to do with my operating cost, I'm in business to make a profit and not cover cost. That being saidplease remember "PROFIT IS NOT A DIRTY WORD" . I was agreeing with what Rick had said not his numbers. I have a $40 an hour shop charge. I'm like The flowerboxx (A weeding fool) and can turn out a serious amount of product. I just want to make a good profit for my labor. I've been doing this a number of years and have never advertised. I have been busier this last 3 months than ever. .... JB


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## COEDS (Oct 4, 2006)

theflowerboxx said:


> If it takes you guys 2 hrs to weed 24 4.5" heatpress vinyl decals you better quit the heatpress vinyl business. LMAO, I could cut and weed them all in 1/2 hr tops. I mean it's an oval with a few words. Cut the black and weed it while the white is cutting, then weed the white, all while the press is warming up.


 I can out weed you any day of the week ole man. LOL ... JB


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

Tell you what my friend, I've got 12 volleyball jerseys to do, 16 cheerleader uniforms and 14 store employee shirts to do. Come on down and we'll have a race. BTW, you bring your roland and your lappy and we'll see who can get done first. 

On top of that, I've got 6 of these to do in youth sizes since my plastisol transfers are too big for the shirts. Wanna take a stab at weeding these too.  The image has changed a little, harder to weed now.


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## wormil (Jan 7, 2008)

COEDS said:


> What my hourly shop charge is has nothing to do with my operating cost, I'm in business to make a profit and not cover cost. That being saidplease remember "PROFIT IS NOT A DIRTY WORD" . I was agreeing with what Rick had said not his numbers. I have a $40 an hour shop charge. I'm like The flowerboxx (A weeding fool) and can turn out a serious amount of product. I just want to make a good profit for my labor. I've been doing this a number of years and have never advertised. I have been busier this last 3 months than ever. .... JB


I'm not sure if you replied to the wrong post or misunderstood me but I don't understand your post in context.


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## brentonchad (Aug 24, 2007)

theflowerboxx said:


> If it takes you guys 2 hrs to weed 24 4.5" heatpress vinyl decals you better quit the heatpress vinyl business. LMAO, I could cut and weed them all in 1/2 hr tops. I mean it's an oval with a few words. Cut the black and weed it while the white is cutting, then weed the white, all while the press is warming up.


9.50!!! Of course it's crappy screen print and those really thick vinyl numbers - but when it's slow pitch softball people aren't too concerned about the quality!!

However there are over 400 slow pitch teams in the area - so it's a big market.

Chad


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## oddTEE (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: need help!!*

If you have a cutter it will be cheaper than Plastisol since you'll be cutting your on logo; it's only two colors in they are not that hard to weed. 
I would say: get the vinyl in white and black and do the cut yourself and you will be profitting instead of losing.
Get some _ThermoFilm_ from the same company and you will be all set. Good luck!


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## theflowerboxx (Mar 26, 2007)

brentonchad said:


> 9.50!!! Of course it's crappy screen print and those really thick vinyl numbers - but when it's slow pitch softball people aren't too concerned about the quality!!
> 
> However there are over 400 slow pitch teams in the area - so it's a big market.
> 
> Chad


 WTF are you talking about?


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## ambitious (Oct 29, 2007)

Okay guy's, let's take into cosideration that we all have different prices and standards set to be competitive in this market. While im near Los Angeles i been studying and testing the quality of the boot leggers here in the (SANTEE ALLEY'S) seriously though these vendors here are selling 3 color screen printed t-shirts for $5 bucks and it's hurting the hell out of me. I bought and tested a couple of there tshirt's to check for quality issues and man after 30 washes there still holding (i'll post a picture if you guy's want to see).

I spoke to 1 of the vendor's and im supposed to get introduced to 1 of the main screenprinters that does these print's. Heck if i can get 3 color screen prints for $3 dollars at a minimum of 20 shirts, i might as well sale my equipment. SO what im trying to say is that everybody sets THERE OWN pricing based on there market and competition, while i totally agree on what you guy's are saying to don't under charge to make a good okay profit it's understandable, but when you have competition all around you and, your doing this full time.. your forced to make a least something.

I just started renting a space here that i share with somebody and boy is hard here in L.A., good thing i took a month of vacation from work to test the waters. But it look's like it will be my last month there, there's no way you could compete here.


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