# Rhinestone-Flock Template Material



## SickPuppy

This is a new affordable flock type of rhinestone template material that you can make yourself.

The end product cuts well and the stones go right into holes and lift up without any problems. I have only tested the material with 10ss stones. It is about the same thickness as the Hartco 425 sandblast material but without all the glue and backer board problems. A backer board is not required just use piece of the flock to make a work station. The material will stick to itself and can be used over and over. 


*Materials Required*

Heat transfer flock (Deco-Flock or SPECTRA-Flock)
GMI Mojave 6 Mil Wall Graphic removable and re-positionable vinyl
Heat Press


*Process*

1. Cut the Flock and Wall vinyl into sheets large enough to fit on your heat press. 

2. Use a Teflon sheet on the bottom and top of the material to protect the heat press

3. Place the wall vinyl on the press first with the white carrier sheet face down. 

4. Place the Flock on top of the wall vinyl with the clear carrier sheet on top. 

5. Press the Flock onto the wall vinyl at 320 degrees for 15 seconds using a light pressure. 1-2 on the Phoenix Fire 
(What you end up with is the Rhinestone-Flock with a clear carrier sheet on the flock side and a white carrier sheet on the adhesive side.) 

6. Remove the clear carrier sheet from the top of the flock and save it.

7. Cut your design feeding the Rhinestone-Flock into the cutter flock side up.
(I use a GX24 cutter with a 60 degree blade, .5mm offset and 180 grams of force. Set your software for 2 passes when it cuts.) 

8. After cutting the design remove the flock from the white carrier sheet. If all the circles do not come out you can use the clear carrier sheet (saved from step 6) to remove them by placing it sticky side to sticky side on the bottom of the Rhinestone-Flock. Press the clear carrier sheet to adhesive side of the template then pull them apart. You can also use blue painters tape.


Both the SPECTRA Flock and GMI Mojave 6 Mil Wall Graphic can be purchased from imprintables warehouse. 


The Flock can be purchased in 5 yard rolls for around $55 unfortunately the Wall Graphic vinyl is only sold in 50 yard rolls and cost $150. I am trying to find a supplier that will sell it by the yard but no luck yet. 


If my calculations are correct you can make a 12 inch by 19 inch sheet of the Rhinestone-Flock for less than $5.00


When I get the time I will make a video of the entire process.


----------



## jean518

HMMM. Have DecoFlock already. Sounds interesting!


----------



## SandyMcC

Thanks so much for this, Sick Puppy. I appreciate it when someone makes the effort to provide actual step-by-step directions with details, such as times and temperatures. I bet you would write great user manuals, too!


----------



## allhamps

Hey Sick, this is great. Thanks for the tip. I'm having a whole differernt thought process for what I think I understand you to describe. Will this work?

I have customers who want stickers/decals for their interior walls, but they don't want anything "permanent". I can't use the DAS decal material because it will ruin their walls. I'm not sure about the Expel on interior painted walls, maybe you all have tried that?? So here's my thought: using your process, I can then press a rhinestone design to the flock side, instead of using it as a template, and then we have a rhinestone sticker/decal, on material made for walls AND removable. Does that sound feasible, or would it be too heavy to stay on the walls. Or is the Expel safe for interior walls?


----------



## SickPuppy

I have used Xpel on walls and it will pull up the paint when removing it. Some rhinestones will stick to the flock so it might work just give it a try and let us know. If you call imprintables warehouse they will send you a sample of the GMI Mojave 6 Mil Wall vinyl.

I have tested the rhinestone flock using SPECTRA Flock others have used Deco Flock with the same success.


----------



## allhamps

Great!! my samples are on the way. I'll post the results.


----------



## charles95405

I was told that the repositioning vinyl would not be re positionable for very long...is this true...will this hamper the entire process of saving for use over and over as we can do with the DAS material?


----------



## SickPuppy

As long as you place the template back onto the carrier sheet you can reuse it over and over.

I performed a stick test by applying the flock to a work station. With well over 500 applications there was no loss of adhesion. 

I also stuck it to just about every surface in the house. How dirty the surface is and how much debris it picks up will have an impact on the material.

I don't know how long it will last but if you are just sticking it to the flock work station you should get at least 500 applications out of one template. I have templates made out of the Hartco 425 that I had to replace after a few uses.


----------



## SickPuppy

I recommend using a lighter color flock for the work station it will make seeing the holes easier.


----------



## SickPuppy

I would like to thank all the forum members that helped test the various materials. I will not post names as some members wish to remain anonymous.


----------



## TheDecalWorld

That sounds pretty cool Slick. Thanks for the info. I will have to get some flock to give it a try. Maybe things will slow down this week with the X-mas rush. Do you have any images of the set up?


----------



## SickPuppy

TheDecalWorld said:


> That sounds pretty cool Slick. Thanks for the info. I will have to get some flock to give it a try. Maybe things will slow down this week with the X-mas rush. Do you have any images of the set up?


Like you I am swamped right now with orders. After the holidays I will post some pics and a short video on how to make and cut the template material. It is not hard just follow the instructions I posted. Most T-shirt shops probable have the Flock already in stock.


----------



## charles95405

I am curious about this process...first off...I don't have a dog in this race....I have never used any type of flock for templates...I only use DAS and Hartco if I run out of DAS and the next shipment is not in...having said that...Didn't the folks with the sticky flock say they had a patent pending? if so when approved won't this new process be an infringement of the process...not necessarily the material?? Opening one up for some legal issues?? Just wondering


----------



## treadhead

charles95405 said:


> Didn't the folks with the sticky flock say they had a patent pending? if so when approved won't this new process be an infringement of the process...not necessarily the material?? Opening one up for some legal issues?? Just wondering


Perhaps for trying to sell the same or similar material / process but I can't imagine that it would prevent folks from buying basic flock material that is readily available and using it in this manner....as long as they are not selling the templates.


----------



## SickPuppy

charles95405 said:


> I am curious about this process...first off...I don't have a dog in this race....I have never used any type of flock for templates...I only use DAS and Hartco if I run out of DAS and the next shipment is not in...having said that...Didn't the folks with the sticky flock say they had a patent pending? if so when approved won't this new process be an infringement of the process...not necessarily the material?? Opening one up for some legal issues?? Just wondering


I am not selling anything. I have stated that over and over. I do not sell rhinestone template materials and I do not plan on selling rhinestone template materials.

A patent on a product does not restrict free market competition. Unless the materials and manufacturing process are identical you are free to produce like products.


----------



## jean518

Is this not just finding another use for a product already in existence? The idea may fall under Intellectual Property. Not sure this is even a new idea but just now being talked about. Is there any new material involved in this process or just repurposing of a product already in existence? Is someone charging or considering charging for the instructions? Is someone going to sell a kit of some sort? I intend to try using Flock to make a template. Still a little puzzled about all the to do over this.


----------



## SickPuppy

jean518 said:


> Is this not just finding another use for a product already in existence? The idea may fall under Intellectual Property. Not sure this is even a new idea but just now being talked about. Is there any new material involved in this process or just repurposing of a product already in existence? Is someone charging or considering charging for the instructions? Is someone going to sell a kit of some sort? I intend to try using Flock to make a template. Still a little puzzled about all the to do over this.


This is simply using 2 existing products to make a rhinestone template. The instructions are already posted for anyone and everyone to use. What you do with the information is up to you. I have conducted an extensive search and found no patent, or patent pending for the process I described.

Just trying to help forum members save a little money. The process I described allows you to 
make a rhinestone-flock template for a fraction of the cost of other flock template materials. 

Flock templates are by far superior to the Hartco 425 templates. They save time, will last longer, and you don't have the glue issues that the Hartco material has. Almost all of my Hartco templates have glue that seeps out into the holes causing the stones to get stuck. I end up having to apply powder to the template just about every time I use them. Another advantage to a flock template is the ability to discharge the static electricity by rubbing the back of the transfer tape to the flock work station.


----------



## BlingItOn

I'm not sure how recent you have purchased your Hartco material but I purchased a roll from my supplier Fellers about a month and a half ago and it seems that the Hartco material has changed. The roll that I received has a lot less adhesive on the back and the rubber material is more flexible. When I apply my transfer tape to lift up my transfer it peels off of the Hartco material with ease and I do not have a problem with any glue seepage that causes the rhinestones to stick. It may be worth it to try to purchase another roll and give the Hartco material another try.

On another note I received a sample piece of the "Sticky Flock" material to try. It is a nice material to work with but I'm still not sure for the cost if it's worth investing in. I pay $73.00 for a roll of Hartco 425 that is 15" X 10 yds. which is approx. $1.95 per sq foot and the Sticky flock is $18.95 for a 12 X 17" pc which is approx. $13.54 per sq foot. The sticky flock ends up costing almost 7 times more than the Hartco 425.


----------



## SickPuppy

BlingItOn said:


> I'm not sure how recent you have purchased your Hartco material but I purchased a roll from my supplier Fellers about a month and a half ago and it seems that the Hartco material has changed. The roll that I received has a lot less adhesive on the back and the rubber material is more flexible. When I apply my transfer tape to lift up my transfer it peels off of the Hartco material with ease and I do not have a problem with any glue seepage that causes the rhinestones to stick. It may be worth it to try to purchase another roll and give the Hartco material another try.
> 
> On another note I received a sample piece of the "Sticky Flock" material to try. It is a nice material to work with but I'm still not sure for the cost if it's worth investing in. I pay $73.00 for a roll of Hartco 425 that is 15" X 10 yds. which is approx. $1.95 per sq foot and the Sticky flock is $18.95 for a 12 X 17" pc which is approx. $13.54 per sq foot. The sticky flock ends up costing almost 7 times more than the Hartco 425.


That is why I posted a process to make your own Flock template material. You can make a 12 x 19 inch sheet for around $5.00. Flock templates are easier to use especially with multi-color or multi-size stone designs.

I have a roll of Hartco that I received a few weeks ago and it is having the same problem. The glue seepage is caused when your templates get warm. It causes the glue to seep into the holes. I will still use the Hartco for one offs like names but for all other templates especially the multi-color ones I will use the Flock.


----------



## ashamutt

BlingItOn said:


> On another note I received a sample piece of the "Sticky Flock" material to try. It is a nice material to work with but I'm still not sure for the cost if it's worth investing in. I pay $73.00 for a roll of Hartco 425 that is 15" X 10 yds. which is approx. $1.95 per sq foot and the Sticky flock is $18.95 for a 12 X 17" pc which is approx. $13.54 per sq foot. The sticky flock ends up costing almost 7 times more than the Hartco 425.


 
And that is without the added cost of S&H. after shipping is tacked on - for one sheet – it costs about 16.00 per sq ft!
ouch!
I might consider it if it comes down in price. 



I will order a new roll of Hartco 425 so I can see what you are talking about.
(The Hartco 425 that I am using now is just fine.)

Matt - thedecalworld - uses Hartco and he is VERY speedy with it! (check out his 4 color rhinestone template video - How could one possibly get faster than this!?! lol)


Me?
I am for making rhinestone templates out of whatever material one sees fit.
AND, I am not breaking any laws by doing so.
People are FREE to cut holes in whatever they want.


Besides – in the “new template material” thread the lady uses the self adhesive Solvent-Flock PS 5910 (poli-tape usa product) for her rhinestone templates.
Using Heat Transfer Flock was also mentioned in that thread.

And to those of you wanting me to “please post pictures & a review” I will do it after the Holidays – Christmas and new year’s. 
I finally received my SAMPLE sheets of the self adhesive Solvent-Flock PS 5910 from Poli-Tape USA and it does work – however more tests need to be run.
I do know that the lady in the “new template material” thread seems to like it.
It costs anywhere from 2.20 – 2.70 per sq ft.


ALL in all, find what works for you and go with it! 

Thanks SP for all of your testing.
I like being able to have a vast array of products to choose from.


----------



## BlingItOn

> That is why I posted a process to make your own Flock template material. You can make a 12 x 19 inch sheet for around $5.00. Flock templates are easier to use especially with multi-color or multi-size stone designs.


That price is definitely more affordable for me. Thanks for doing the research.



> I have a roll of Hartco that I received a few weeks ago and it is having the same problem. The glue seepage is caused when your templates get warm. It causes the glue to seep into the holes. I will still use the Hartco for one offs like names but for all other templates especially the multi-color ones I will use the Flock.


I work in my basement where the temperatures are a bit cooler so maybe that's why I don't have a glue issue. But I still don't see it being an issue with the new roll of Hartco that I received because of there being a lot less adhesive on the back. Maybe you received a roll of the older material.


----------



## SickPuppy

BlingItOn said:


> That price is definitely more affordable for me. Thanks for doing the research.
> 
> 
> 
> I work in my basement where the temperatures are a bit cooler so maybe that's why I don't have a glue issue. But I still don't see it being an issue with the new roll of Hartco that I received because of there being a lot less adhesive on the back. Maybe you received a roll of the older material.


I work out of a small room in my house and with 2 heat presses and 4 printers running it gets a little warm.


----------



## dan-ann

I bought a roll of hartco about 1 1/2 months ago and I love it. No glue problems at all. I fought with the black for so long I just about gave up with doing bling. Now I am happy. I have no problem with it tearing, no glue problem I powered it once


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Yes, I use the Hartco 425 as well and just bought 10 rolls of it last week. I have templates from 6 months ago that I have used 100's of times and no problems at all and also no glue problems. I am in FLA and it gets hot. I work outside events where it is 100 Degrees and still no issues with the hartco glue. Now I do use Foam Board and also put a protective layer of tape over the board to help the templates last. I made 250 transfers of a 2 color design yesterday and the templates look brand new still. I can make a video of what the template process is if needed. The great thing is that when I have the protective layer over the foam board I can pull the hartco material off, store it and put another template on the same foam board. I have about 400 templates stored right now and not one glue issue. The flock idea is very cool, but the Hartco is still the most cost effective way for my business. 

I can have a customer order a custom rhinestone text design from over 25 Rhinestone fonts in the store and have a Fully custom rhinestone shirt made for them within 15-20 Minutes. That is from scratch. The custom waits right in the store, looks at other things we have to offer and buys something else. My store is not even open yet, and I have already had 13 people in the last week take advantage of what we can do and come by the store to buy things anyways. (Can't turn down local business) 

What we do for that customer in 15-20 Minutes. 

1- Creating Custom Rhinestone design in the vector program.
2- Cutting the template
3- Weeding the template
4- Creating the backerboard
5- Brushing in the stones
6- Transfer Paper
7- Pressing on the garment


----------



## Twanabee

I have a peice of the flock and have yet to test it. I use the Graphtec pink material and have no problems with it at all. It cuts well and weeds great. I have been using the same 60 degree blade from Clean Cut for over 4 months now and still cuts perfect holes. I also love my cutter. I will test the flock but for now and for the price difference, I see no reason to change.


----------



## SickPuppy

TheDecalWorld said:


> What we do for that customer in 15-20 Minutes.
> 
> 1- Creating Custom Rhinestone design in the vector program.
> 2- Cutting the template
> 3- Weeding the template
> 4- Creating the backerboard
> 5- Brushing in the stones
> 6- Transfer Paper
> 7- Pressing on the garment


Use a flock template material and you can cut that time in half. Especially with multi-color designs and alignment of the stones is fast and simple.

If you are like me and have static electricity issues this will eliminate them.

The information if free, try it or not either way it makes no difference to me. I am not trying to sell anything to anyone and not trying to convince anyone to switch over to flock. I am just offering an affordable alternative to the higher priced materials out there.


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Of course Sick. We love all new ideas and different thing will always work for different businesses. Everyone should always try new ideas and see if it works for them and their business plan. Of course I will be testing the flock and seeing which is best for what we do. Keep the great ideas coming! That is what is so great about this forum. Great information that everyone can use or decide not to use. But the information is out there for them.


----------



## BlingItOn

TheDecalWorld said:


> Of course Sick. We love all new ideas and different thing will always work for different businesses. Everyone should always try new ideas and see if it works for them and their business plan. Of course I will be testing the flock and seeing which is best for what we do. Keep the great ideas coming! That is what is so great about this forum. Great information that everyone can use or decide not to use. But the information is out there for them.



I agree 100%. Without all of the wealth of information that everyone posts we would all still be laying our rhinestones with a pair of tweezers. 

I say keep the great ideas coming!


----------



## rcmsellers

You mean you don't have to put the rhinestones individually with tweezers. No wonder I can only do one design a month.


----------



## BlingItOn

Been there....done that


----------



## IDEAGUY

I have a qu for you. when I cut the holes in Hartco, they are perfectly sized.
when I go to cut the flock, they are about 3 sizes smaller...I can't figure this out.
I am using a 60 blade, and setting the cutter to the right size, but it does not
cut the hole big enough,and then the space in between each hole is much larger, as the hole is smaller. make sense? any suggestions?


----------



## SickPuppy

IDEAGUY said:


> I have a qu for you. when I cut the holes in Hartco, they are perfectly sized.
> when I go to cut the flock, they are about 3 sizes smaller...I can't figure this out.
> I am using a 60 blade, and setting the cutter to the right size, but it does not
> cut the hole big enough,and then the space in between each hole is much larger, as the hole is smaller. make sense? any suggestions?


Check the blade offset on your cutter. It sounds like you changed the blade but forgot to change the offset for the 60 degree blade.


----------



## charles95405

idea guy - what software are you using?


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Had a few people email me about how I use the same backboards for my Hartco 425 template material. Made a quick video to show you how it is done. Very easy and saves you alot of money on backerboards over time. Hope it can help someone. 

YouTube - Rhinestone Template Transferring Process


----------



## jean518

Matt, How many times can you change the template before you have to replace the tape? Is it just regular shipping tape? I hate having all those backer boards. I have been considering trying plexiglass as a backer. I have some pieces left over from making some templates for a quilt.


----------



## SickPuppy

jean518 said:


> I have been considering trying Plexiglas as a backer. I have some pieces left over from making some templates for a quilt.


I used a piece of plexiglass as a backerboard when I was experimenting with Hartco templates. I was trying to reuse one piece of plexiglass and just re-stick the different templates on it. 

It works but you have to be careful when pulling the template off of the plexiglass or you will tear the template or deform the holes. I gave up on that idea after tearing several templates.


----------



## jean518

Kind of what I figured. Curious about the tape and how it holds up to constant changing of templates and possible distortion of holes with repeated changing.


----------



## TheDecalWorld

jean518 said:


> Matt, How many times can you change the template before you have to replace the tape? Is it just regular shipping tape? I hate having all those backer boards. I have been considering trying plexiglass as a backer. I have some pieces left over from making some templates for a quilt.


All of my main templates I use all the time I keep on one. Any custom designs or design we do not use alot I do this with. It is just packaging tape layered on it. We have done some designs 10-15 times already changing in and out with no issues. Just as long as you get it back on the carrier after using. Plexiglass and acrylic are not good for the backers. The adheasive has a stronger hold to those and it can rip the holes like slick was saying. The foam board is also good for layers. Because it has a give in the foam when you push down to get the 2nd, 3rd, 4th layer of stones the foam gives a little and makes them much easier for the tape to pick them up off the templates. The plexigalss, acrylic, and hard boards do not. Hope this helps.


----------



## TheDecalWorld

The tape holds up no problem. You fold it over both sides to the back of the foam board a few inches. This also makes it so you don't get that paper pull off like you get on the hard cardboard backers. With the tape you never get that and get a clean pull everytime.


----------



## IDEAGUY

I am using winpc2010


----------



## ashamutt

IDEAGUY said:


> I have a qu for you. when I cut the holes in Hartco, they are perfectly sized.
> when I go to cut the flock, they are about 3 sizes smaller...I can't figure this out.
> I am using a 60 blade, and setting the cutter to the right size, but it does not
> cut the hole big enough,and then the space in between each hole is much larger, as the hole is smaller. make sense? any suggestions?





IDEAGUY said:


> I am using winpc2010


 
That happened to me as well.

I designed in winpc sign 2010 saved as an eps, opened up my funtime2010 and cut to my KNK Groove-e.
( in winpc sign I designed using SS-12 so as to fit a ss-10 stone)

Normally I cut from my Magicut6.0 to my Graphtec & KNK Studio to my Groove-e and do not have this problem.

Anyway, my circles cut smaller and were also farther apart.

I have called Scott at Rhinestonedesignz.com - where I purchased the winpc sign 2010 - so he can walk me through the settings and see if I have them correct.

Thanks SP for the "blade & offset setting" answer - that is probably the problem.


----------



## charles95405

ideaguy....if you are using winpcsign..cut your holes bigger than your stones...for example..if using ss10 try cutting at ss12..


----------



## MDsUnique

TheDecalWorld said:


> Had a few people email me about how I use the same backboards for my Hartco 425 template material. Made a quick video to show you how it is done. Very easy and saves you alot of money on backerboards over time. Hope it can help someone.
> 
> YouTube - Rhinestone Template Transferring Process


Matt - You are the MAN!!  Love your videos! This forum is such a great place - thanks to all and a Merry Christmas too!


----------



## SickPuppy

ashamutt said:


> That happened to me as well.
> 
> Thanks SP for the "blade & offset setting" answer - that is probably the problem.


The diameter of the holes is directly affected by the type of blade and blade offset. If you use a 60 degree blade you must increase the offset or the holes will be too small. 

When creating a 10ss design using WinPcSign Pro I set the stone size to .115 I use a 60 degree blade with an offset of .55mm. I also use the cheap Chinese rhinestones which have a lot of variation in diameter so you need a larger hole.


----------



## ashamutt

SickPuppy said:


> The diameter of the holes is directly affected by the type of blade and blade offset. If you use a 60 degree blade you must increase the offset or the holes will be too small.
> 
> When creating a 10ss design using WinPcSign Pro I set the stone size to .115 I use a 60 degree blade with an offset of .55mm. I also use the cheap Chinese rhinestones which have a lot of variation in diameter so you need a larger hole.


Thanks SP! 

Scott called me yesterday evening and explained this to me.

He also said something about every blade manufacturer having their own offset.(?)

He went into a lot more technical stuff, but I will let him explain it here in the thread because if I attempt to I know I will mess it up somehow 


And.....back to the thread topic. (sorry for the curve)

Last night - just for "fun's sake" - I took a piece of 8.5 x 11 Heat Transfer Flock, then took a piece of 8.5 x 11 Scor-Tape which is a double sided adhesive film/tape and used the rollers on my cold laminator to adhere them together.
I now have a very nice piece of sticky backed flock.
I will be testing it in the next few days to see how it cuts & holds up.
(I did this just for fun – I will still stick w/ SP’s recipe for now since it seems to work) 


I used a heat transfer flock known as DecoFlock manufactured by Poli-Tape(German company) and sold here in the States under several different names by several different companies. I purchased mine from Specialty Graphics.

"Scor-Tape is a Korean manufactured double sided adhesive tape. Scor-tape is its USA name. SOOKWANG is its Korean name.”
“SOOKWANG DOUBLE-STICK TAPE is premium, double-sided adhesive tape that is incredibly sticky, heat resistant and acid-free. Use with embossing powder, foil, beads, glitter, ribbon, etc.”



Price I paid?

Scor-Tape 1.69 for an 8.5 x 11 sheet
DecoFlock 1.96 for the 8.5 x 11 piece
Total cost for an 8.5 x 11 of “scor-tape” sticky backed flock = 3.65

That would equal – if my poor math skills are correct – about 5.62 per SQ FT.
Clearly not as cost effective as SP’s recipe, but MUCH less expensive than other sticky backed flocks that are out there….and there are quite a few.
(I have 5 others on hand that I will test when time permits – probably after the new year)


----------



## CyberSultan

An offset adjustment for cutter blades is necessary because the tip of the blade is not at its center. It is "offset" from the center so it requires an offset adjustment. In comparison, if you were to replace your cutter blade with a sharp pencil, the tip of the pencil is centered and the offset in that case would be zero. Hope that makes sense. Depending on the angle and type of cutter blade, the offset will vary. The manufacturer of the blade should know what its offset is.

Edit: Your offset for a blade can change a little as the blade begins to wear.


----------



## ashamutt

CyberSultan said:


> An offset adjustment for cutter blades is necessary because the tip of the blade is not at its center. It is "offset" from the center so it requires an offset adjustment. In comparison, if you were to replace your cutter blade with a sharp pencil, the tip of the pencil is centered and the offset in that case would be zero. Hope that makes sense. Depending on the angle and type of cutter blade, the offset will vary. The manufacturer of the blade should know what its offset is.
> 
> Edit: Your offset for a blade can change a little as the blade begins to wear.


 
I totally get it now!  LOL

When you were trying to explain it to me over the phone I was totally daft to what you were saying, but "reading" it now I totally get it.
(sorry for being so dense yesterday)

Can't wait "til my first class with you! 
(maybe it should be in written form lol)


----------



## CyberSultan

I once had a diagram that did a great job of depicting what a blade offset was. I'm looking through some of my archives now to see if I can find it. If not, maybe I'll have some luck finding the site that originally posted it.

It was great talking to you yesterday and look forward to talking to you again soon.


----------



## groomerjanie

I found this at signwarehouse.com. Do you think it will work?
GMI 6mil Wall Graphics - 30 inch X 10 ft - Sign Supplies and Equipment
GMI 6mil Wall Graphics - 30 inch X 10 ft 

Quantity in Basket: None 
Code: MGM-SPMSWG6-3010
Price: $15.00
Ship Weight: 10.00 lbs.
Rating: Be the first to rate this product 



Quantity: 

GMI 6mil Wall Graphics - 30 inch x 10ft 6mil self adhesive calendered matte vinyl. Features ultra removable, repositionable adhesive. Perfect for application on interior walls. Adheres to any flat, smooth surface. Compare to Fathead.com® media.
"Best adhesion and layflat performance is achieved when the graphic is not printed full bleed. Leave a 1/8" unprinted border around the image. If it is to be contour-cut, leave a 1/8" white border on the finished decal. Use an ICC profile for matte vinyl and do not over-saturate the image. Maximum size for optimal adhesion, removability, and repositionability is 2ft x 3ft 


I am new so I hope this comes out right.


----------



## SickPuppy

groomerjanie said:


> I found this at signwarehouse.com. Do you think it will work?
> GMI 6mil Wall Graphics - 30 inch X 10 ft - Sign Supplies and Equipment
> GMI 6mil Wall Graphics - 30 inch X 10 ft
> 
> 
> I am new so I hope this comes out right.


Yes that appears to be the same material that I used.


----------



## allhamps

I agree with Sick. That is the same as the sample piece I received. I am waiting for my flock to come and then I will be able to put together my "removable wall bling". I'll post pics and test results asap.


----------



## American logoZ

"(I have 5 others on hand that I will test when time permits – probably after the new year)"

That's exciting, Bacon. Please post names & suppliers so we can test, too!


----------



## ashamutt

American logoZ said:


> "(I have 5 others on hand that I will test when time permits – probably after the new year)"
> 
> That's exciting, Bacon. Please post names & suppliers so we can test, too!


 
No prob all. 

I will also list the _links_ as to where I purchased each one. (and each one that gave me samples.)

My favorite company so far is Fifield.
(Customized Solutions)

I have some really nice adhesive backed samples from them. (flocks and velvets...and one sample of suede)
The lady I spoke to said that most fabrics that they carry can be adhesive backed. 

I will list the 5 other companies that my testing samples came from over the weekend.

I will cut the test templates hopefully next week.


----------



## ashamutt

1. http://www.designyourwall.com/store/Velour-Felt-Contact-paper-c-135.html
I purchased samples in a few different colors from designyourwall. 
It feels just like HT flock even though the item description states “felt”. The item description also states “Will not stick to itself” , but I am thinking that it means “permanently” because it does stick to itself until it is pulled off…like other adhesive backed flocks that are used.
Samples are anywhere from 12”x18” to 18”x18”. The ones I received were 18”x16”. They cost 5.00 each.
Note from site **Please advise: All samples come folded. 
If this works it will be nice because it will only cost me 90.00 a roll. Roll size: 18 inches wide x 16.4 feet long (about 3.65 per sqft)

2. http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productid=1502
I purchased the #55 Adhesive Back Flock Paper, 20" x 30", 2 Sheets for 19.00
This is very similar to HT flock(in _feel_) except that it is a little softer. 


3. http://www.stickybackpaper.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=144_23
I ordered a few sheets of this just to see if it would work. 
It has a nice stick, but it has a different feel to it than all of my other “flocks”. 
It is more like the sticky backed flock that you would find in a craft store (one of my favorite places to be!) but it might still work.
Bad news is they are discontinuing all of their sticky backed papers.
The woman told me that they could no longer buy the adhesive film that they use to manufacture all of their Stickybacked papers because it is no longer made.
All other adhesives that they have tried so far have not worked.  One adhesive film caused their product to “curl” while in the packaging on store shelves!
However, they will continue to sell non-stickyback products. 
Hopefully they will find a suitable adhesive in the near future.

4. 5 SHEETS OF STICKY BACK FLOCK PAPER - GREEN - eBay (item 280565110631 end time Jan-19-11 08:03:18 PST)
I ordered 5 A4 sheets of this sticky backed flock paper for 3.12
If this product works it will be harder to buy here in the states since it is a UK product, but our UK members will benefit. 

5. http://www.abmlabels.co.uk/
I received a sample from ABM Labels & Print Ltd (a UK company) 
This looks like it will work too. 
They get their adhesive backed flock from Fifield. (USA) 
Maria Lloyd – from ABM Labels – was the person who put me in contact w/ Fifield here in America.
AND…she was so nice to still send me a sample! 
If it works – and I think/hope that it will – this will be another adhesive backed flock supplier for our UK friends.

6. http://www.madisonartshop.com/sevepa.html SELF-ADHESIVE VELOUR PAPER
I am still waiting to receive my package. 


I will TRY to test this week. No promises.
I have been very busy. Plus, a lot of other things going on.


----------



## allhamps

Thanks Ms. Bacon. I've ordered some samples from the first site you listed to actually test as a removable rhinestone wall decal.


----------



## ashamutt

allhamps said:


> Thanks Ms. Bacon. I've ordered some samples from the first site you listed to actually test as a removable rhinestone wall decal.


 
You are so welcome. 
(_researching&testing_ is a side hobby of mine - when I have the time that is)

The self-adhesive flock / felt / velour from Designyourwall.com is supposed to be screen-printable. (?I think?)
I wonder if it is also inkjet printable? (solvent inks)



I will also be testing SP's sticky backed flock idea as soon as I can get my hands on a piece of the "GMI Mojave 6 Mil Wall Graphic removable and re-positionable vinyl".


----------



## allhamps

ashamutt said:


> You are so welcome.
> (_researching&testing_ is a side hobby of mine - when I have the time that is)
> 
> The self-adhesive flock / felt / velour from Designyourwall.com is supposed to be screen-printable. (?I think?)
> I wonder if it is also inkjet printable? (solvent inks)
> 
> 
> 
> I will also be testing SP's sticky backed flock idea as soon as I can get my hands on a piece of the "GMI Mojave 6 Mil Wall Graphic removable and re-positionable vinyl".


My sample came just before the New Year. I will also be testing this out with a piece of flock this week. My focus is to make the removable wall blings, like the decals for vehicles, but I need to see if the stones will make it too heavy to stay on the walls.


----------



## Bayac

Has anyone tried SP's idea using Orajet 3268 (6 mil Moveable Wall Graphics Inkjet Media)? Fellers carries it 30 x 150 ft $123.99 (.33 / sq ft). I was just curious as they are local here and will deliver to me for free!


----------



## sam17053

Other way I do mine Cut mine on the back side of the flock take the holes out, Mine always pulls all of them out never have any stick. then I use a Zig 2 way glue stick, on the back let it dry put it on my flock board, When finished I store it on freezer wrap on the wax side. I use a GX 24 offset 0.125 force 150 speed 10 My daughter has a silouette SD I restuck her mat with 2 way Zig let dry put it on same way cover and fuzzy side to mat, cut it on flock cut setting and that also cut perfect all holes came off.


----------



## plan b

Anybody have any pictures of their results of all the testing??


----------



## ashamutt

plan b said:


> Anybody have any pictures of their results of all the testing??


 
Nope.

I will not have any "images" for a while.
( the written results will come soon though)

I sent Sandy McCauley some of my samples so she could test too. 
She should receive them in the mail sometime next week.
(Maybe she will get to it sooner than I)

I will also be testing some of SP's creation as soon as I can get a piece of the self-adhesive vinyl.
(maybe someone out there will sell me a small piece?)

If you want “test results” sooner - like americanlogoz did - you will have to go to the links that I posted and get samples to test for yourself.

SP also has great instructions for his sticky back flock at the beginning of this post.

(I have been very busy and testing is a "side" hobby of mine)


----------



## SandyMcC

sam17053 said:


> Other way I do mine Cut mine on the back side of the flock take the holes out, Mine always pulls all of them out never have any stick. then I use a Zig 2 way glue stick, on the back let it dry put it on my flock board, When finished I store it on freezer wrap on the wax side. I use a GX 24 offset 0.125 force 150 speed 10 My daughter has a silouette SD I restuck her mat with 2 way Zig let dry put it on same way cover and fuzzy side to mat, cut it on flock cut setting and that also cut perfect all holes came off.


Now THAT is thinking outside of the box!  Thanks for posting!


----------



## plan b

It would be great if any of the testers could show some result pictures.


----------



## charles95405

What a novel idea....showing results of new product testing.....

I have not tested the original sticky flock but there some videos on youtube... Maybe those who are doing testing of similiar could put some videos on youtube


----------



## American logoZ

plan b said:


> It would be great if any of the testers could show some result pictures.


Yes, please! All the different stuff and instructions to heat press 2 products or stick something .... I haven't been able to figure it out. Or maybe none of these suggestions.are working? I have tried 4 products: heat press flock (didnt work), magnets (didnt work), self adhesive felt (didnt work), and Sticky Flock (lots of photos and videos available). I document my testing with photos, but see no point I'm posting what doesn't work.


----------



## Rodney

Why the gang up on people who are trying to do testing? 

They will do it when they have time. 

Sounds like you guys already have found other methods that work for you, let others take the time to test and figure out what works for them. 

Let's try to keep the comments constructive please.


----------



## charles95405

I am not ganging up on anyone..I sure don't have other items like sticky flock that works. I would be interested in seeing what they are doing. My post was not a slam...just if you have something positive, I would like to see it. This thread has various items that may or may not work...but I don't want to speed out and spend $100 or more on materials that 'may' work without some sort of visual that it does work and fiscally attractive.


----------



## corakes

hello,
here are 2 pictures of a flock template.
I started that thread "new template material" last year...
totally forgot about the pics - didn´t know so many people
were so eager to see pics...
well, here it goes.
I am still very happy with that material.
It is cheap - and I can use it for many other things too.

Susan


----------



## charles95405

Susan...thanks...looks pretty good...now I gotta go back and see what you are using...THANKS again


----------



## DivineBling

Susan,
Brian isn't trying to say what you are using is bad. This thread started because people were trying to duplicate Sticky Flock and he is merely trying to clear the air that it is not the same thing. 
I'm sure what you are using works great for you and I'm glad... He's not saying that your flock template is wrong... Just that it's not the same thing as what he makes. 
Please don't misunderstand because the last thing in the world he wants to do is to offend anyone. That's just not who he is.


----------



## corakes

sorry, too ....
I already apologized to him. I didn´t know about all that stuff with that material..
Susan


----------



## My Shirt Connect

I apologized too 

This forum is filled with so many great and helpful people!

Brian


----------



## DivineBling

Awwww.... Can we hug now? 

By the way, Susan, my favorite wine comes from Germany! I love Blue Nun qualitatswein! Yum! I know it just means quality wine, but it's so good!


----------



## Rodney

charles95405 said:


> I am not ganging up on anyone..I sure don't have other items like sticky flock that works. I would be interested in seeing what they are doing. My post was not a slam


My apologies then, I must have misunderstood your tone. It sure came off like a slam with a comment like "what a novel idea".



divine bling said:


> This thread started because people were trying to duplicate Sticky Flock and he is merely trying to clear the air that it is not the same thing.


I think people are pretty clear that the tests that people are doing are not the same exact thing as Sticky Flock, but are trying to find something that works for them that serves a similar purpose.

I think it's fine for people to research and find different materials that will help their business within their budget. It's also very cool that people take the time to share their findings when they can.

I think there's a conflict of interest for the vendors of a product that serves a similar purpose to say the products that are being tested aren't as good. 

Who knows what kind of cool techniques and methods folks will come up with.


----------



## corakes

yeah - lets hug and start all over again....


----------



## American logoZ

corakes said:


> hello,
> here are 2 pictures of a flock template.
> I started that thread "new template material" last year...
> totally forgot about the pics - didn´t know so many people
> were so eager to see pics...
> well, here it goes.
> I am still very happy with that material.
> It is cheap - and I can use it for many other things too.
> 
> Susan


Thx for photos! Are your materials, vendors, and processes described on the thread you mention? And do you mind sharing some of the other uses?


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Tested to Flock material with some products I had in the store and it seemed pretty nice. I just don't think it fits my business and what we do. This could be a great material for some and I am not saying not to try it for your business. I think it is a very cool idea and appreciate all of the posts and testing. I would just have some concerns with it.

First off the price is more than it is to make a template with the Hartco. (A good amount more) 

Second, the time it takes to make the material. The hartco comes in a roll and you are cutting a template 1 minute after it arrives. The flock would be a complete process just to make the material to cut. I know you can buy the flock material already made by the sheet for $19.00 for 12"x15" I think? Wow

3rd- What happens if you spill a drink or something gets on the flock material. Is it ruined then? I know I have spilled a drink on the hartco material and the template still works great. 

4th- I don't see how the sticky flock is any quicker in making a multi colortransfer than the regular templates. It is the exact same process? I would think if anything the regular templates would be quicker to make from start to finish. If you consider the time to make the material before cutting. 

I am just still trying to weigh options here. If someone has found better solutions to this issues please share. We don't sell Flock material or Hartco Material. I am just posting what we have found from comparing both on our end.


----------



## SickPuppy

TheDecalWorld said:


> Tested to Flock material with some products I had in the store and it seemed pretty nice. I just don't think it fits my business and what we do. This could be a great material for some and I am not saying not to try it for your business. I think it is a very cool idea and appreciate all of the posts and testing. I would just have some concerns with it.
> 
> I am just still trying to weigh options here. If someone has found better solutions to this issues please share. We don't sell Flock material or Hartco Material. I am just posting what we have found from comparing both on our end.


This is what I have found 

Usining my process it is less than $5.00 per 12x20 inch sheet compared to $20 per sheet for other brands. Yes it is a little more that Hartco and I still use Hartco for one offs. 

The Hartco material doesn't just come off the roll ready to use. You have to cut backer board, and in some cases tape up the backer board, then apply the template to the backer board. This process takes time usually the same amount of time as heat pressing flock to wall vinyl.

I don't know about you but I have been using a heat press for years and it takes less than 5 minutes to cut and press several sheets of material together. That 5 minutes saves you $15 per sheet over other types of flock being sold.

No it is not water proof spill, a drink on it and you have to replace it. Why you have a drink next to your work station I don't understand but yes it is not water proof

I wouldn't recommend using flock in the shower but under normal use it should last longer. 

No more cutting backer board.

No more bulky backer board templates to store. You can store flock templates an envelope.

No more glue issues no more powdering the templates.

No more static issues. 

No more trying to eyeball your alignment. 
The flock does allow faster multi color designs with easier alignment, there are videos that show this process. 

I think you stated the best reason for using flock in the start of your post


TheDecalWorld said:


> Tested to Flock material with some products I had in the store.


Most shops that are making rhinestone garments use or keep flock on hand for other things. Now that I have an SP300 I also keep wall vinyl on hand. So I am using materials I already use for other projects. I only use Hartco for one thing and that is Rhinestone templates. In my shop it has no other use. Using existing products reduces your over all shop operating expenses.


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Hey Slick, I don't want you to get upset. I just wanted to put out thoughts on the flock not using it like you guys do. You are awesome on the forum and share a ton of information. You have some very good points. That is why I ask the questions from someone that is experienced with the flock. I'm not trying to put down the flock material, I think this can work for some businesses. I dont think it will work at all of mobile businesses that travel to events in the heat, sun, and rain. We have about 200-300 templates here and they need to be study for on-site events. With the hartco being half the price for ME it is the better option. Once I have 500 templates, that would be an extra $1,250 in template costs. 


No it is not water proof spill, a drink on it and you have to replace it. Why you have a drink next to your work station I don't understand but yes it is not water proof

LOL when I have a big order I bring my templates right into the shower to not have down time. J/K

I wouldn't recommend using flock in the shower but under normal use it should last longer. 

No more cutting backer board. 15 Seconds

No more bulky backer board templates to store. You can store flock templates an envelope.

We just file them. 

No more glue issues no more powdering the templates.
I have never have a glue issue with the tape laminate. In FLA and 100 deg heat. 

No more static issues. I have never had. I know people do though. 

No more trying to eyeball your alignment. 
The flock does allow faster multi color designs with easier alignment, there are videos that show this process. 

I can create templates with registration points as well if that is what you are talking about. 

Like I said the Flock is cool and can be AWESOME for some businesses. I just dont think it is the best fit for my business with the cost involved. You have the best process by far Slick and if someone does want to use sticky flock I suggest making your own with Slicks wonderful instructions. I would just not buy pieces for $19.00 a pop. 

So in conclusion!! I think everyone here should go back to SLICK's first post with the directions to make your own flock material and thank him VERY MUCH. I looks like he is saving everyone about $10.00 a foot to make their own flock material. 

Thanks Slick


----------



## My Shirt Connect

TheDecalWorld said:


> "You have the best process by far"


Hello Again 

FYI, Sickpuppy does not make Sticky Flock. His product is different than Sticky Flock. Hopefully someone who has experience with both products will make a post about the differences between Sticky Flock and these home brews.

And



TheDecalWorld said:


> "to use sticky flock I suggest making your own."


Again, he is not making Sticky Flock plus Sticky Flock is Trademarked.

Matt, I really like your work and you do such a great job on the forum!!! I hope that I am not coming across in the wrong way. And I wanted to thank everyone who has been so supportive with us trying to protect a product that we invented.

Brian


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Hey Brian, No worries. It is a great idea and I hope it works out for you guys. I have not seen every version of the sticky flock so it may be something different. I am guessing if they sell it in sheets that it is pressed other wise it would come in a roll like most material so I am thinking it is something similar. Again, we are always looking for new ideas and ways to make QUALITY product at the best price. They way the flock is right now I don't think it is for my business, but all businesses are different and I could work perfect for some businesses. Everyone here is to share ideas and make money bottom line. The less expensive it is for me to produce a high quality item in a efficient manner is what I use. Right now the Hartco material is the material for me. Who knows, Someone here might find a new material tomorrow that is less expensive and works just as good. That is what is so great about this forum. Everyone shares their ideas with everyone else to save money. 

Keep up the good work!

Anyone headed to the ISS Orlando Show in FEB?


----------



## My Shirt Connect

TheDecalWorld said:


> I am guessing if they sell it in sheets that it is pressed other wise it would come in a roll like most material so I am thinking it is something similar.


We would sell it by the roll if Sticky Flock was rollable. The thickness of the material and the two cover sheets prevents us from rolling the material. Plus Sticky Flock is much more firm than rubber materials which helps the holes from being distorted (after cutting) but makes it harder to roll than rubber. We've thought about removing the clear cover sheet that comes with Sticky Flock so that we could offer Sticky Flock by the yard (on Rolls) but Sticky Flock still does not roll well with it removed.

Plus, it is that clear sheet that we use to weed Sticky Flock after the template is cut and it keeps the flock protected and clean until it is used. I am also worried about the templates wanting to maintain a curved shape (since it's not a rubbery product) so for now we will continue to cut Sticky Flock down into sheets  

Brian


----------



## idelements

Hey Matt

Question....do you sell artwork files for your templates? The SOUTHEAST FOOTBALL design shown in your video uses the same arrow that our high school uses. I would love to buy it so. If so, let me know how much.

THANKS!


----------



## TheDecalWorld

Hi Chris, Please PM or email about this. 

Thank you


----------



## Eview1

I will be there

Anyone headed to the ISS Orlando Show in FEB?[/QUOTE]


----------



## Boomerbabe

Evie, I plan on going just not sure which day. I'll be driving over. Do you know which day you will be there? Would love to meet up.


----------



## SandyM114

Would any brand of wall vinyl work instead of the mojave brand?


----------



## SickPuppy

SandyM114 said:


> Would any brand of wall vinyl work instead of the mohave brand?


Sandy I tested several different wall vinyls and the Mohave was the cheapest. Others worked but cost more.


----------



## SandyM114

Thanks, I was trying to go with some I already have on hand. A quick question though about the heat press process to combine the flock with the wall vinyl.....So when finished, I have a clear carrier, the flock itself, then a white carrier, then the wall vinyl, right? I wasn't sure about what to do with the wall vinyl itself after heat pressing it. I'm missing something I think. Sandy


----------



## SandyM114

I was looking at the EnduraTex flock material at sign warehouse and the description of it says it's self-adhesive.....would this eliminate the second wall vinyl in the process?


----------



## allhamps

Sandy, I use the Enduratex flock all the time. The "self-adhesive" they are speaking of if the fact that it sticks to the clear carrier that it is on, so that you can weed smaller items better. It's not the type of self-adhesive that we are talkling about here that you would get with the wall vinyl.

I hope that makes sense


----------



## SandyM114

Thanks, that does make sense....I'm not clear still on the process of combining the 2. It says to lay the wall vinyl with the white carrier face down then lay the flock on top. How will this make the flock stick tothe wall vinyl and why would I want the layer of wall vinyl there anyway? I've read and re=read that part, but I'm missing something...Sandy​


----------



## T-Shirtprinter

Sandy,
I'm with you - am missing something there too!
Probably easy once we get past what we are missing. 
Rich


----------



## allhamps

The wall vinyl is what gives you the "sticky" part of the sticky flock. The back side of that is sticky and can be repositioned. The flock is heat pressed to the front side of the wall vinyl to give you the, well "flock" side of the sticky flock Once the two are pressed together, you have a piece of material with the flock on the top and the "sticky" on the back, on a white carrier. I understand it, but I haven't had the chance to try it yet. I have all the pieces, just too busy to get it done.


----------



## idelements

I have been playing with this concept using regular sign vinyl we have in stock. Seems to be working good. Not sure how long the adhesive on the vinyl will hold up since the vinyl is not repositionable like the wall vinyl.

Also, instead of using a piece of this flock for the work station, I use a sheet of craft foam with the sticky back. I got it from Walmart. The flock that I made sticks good to the foam and the transfer tape releases well from the flock. I tried the hartco template with the craft foam work station but the transfer tape just pulled the template up from the foam. Also the foam is nice for the multicolor designs as it has some give it it when trying to get the other stones to stick to the transfer tape.

The nice thing about the flock is that I can cut my templates with my laser . Of course if I am cutting a lot of them I will have to use the PVC free vinyl.

My order of oil board just came so I am going to give that a try also.


----------



## ashamutt

It has been a long time since I posted here in this thread, but I have been very busy. (good thing)
I thought I would come in and make a small update since I took the day off.

Out of the 6 product samples that I received - so as to be able to do a little testing of a few different adhesive backed flocks that are out there - I will be using only 4 of them for testing.
Here is the post of the 6 product samples I received: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t138064-4.html#post822737

I will be using product #’s 1, 2, 5 & 6 that I listed in the link above.
The other samples – 3 & 4 – just did not have enough “sticky” on them for my liking. I could have added more “sticky” to them using double sided adhesive, but I just did not want to fool w/ it. Trying to keep it as simple as possible.

Product # 1 - http://www.designyourwall.com/store/Velour-Felt-Contact-paper-c-135.html is what I used to make my flock work station. (pictures below) I will be cutting rhinestone templates using this product as soon as time permits.

Product # 2 - http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productid=1502
I will be cutting rhinestone templates using this product as soon as time permits.

Product # 5 – samples from the UK and the USA (manufactured by the same company) Fifield http://www.fifieldfabrics.com/
I will be cutting rhinestone templates using 3 products from Fifield as soon as time permits.

Product # 6 - http://www.madisonartshop.com/sevepa.html SELF-ADHESIVE VELOUR PAPER
Again, I will be cutting rhinestone templates using this product as soon as time permits. 

So far the “sticky backing” on the above 4 products is good. 
It adheres very nicely to my flock work station and pulls up nicely. (no “sticky” lost)

After making my flock work station(with product #1) I used a tape-roller to give it a good “cleaning”. This was to insure that no “fuzzies” will be picked up by flock templates.

I really want to be able to test Sick Puppy’s adhesive-backed-flock recipe and hope to do that as soon as I can find a Mojave wall vinyl supplier that doesn’t make me buy a whole roll! Lol
I only need about a yard of it. I hope I can get some of it soon!
My friend Printchick sent me some wall vinyl for testing purposes and I hope that it works too.
She sent me gloss & matte – I need to find out exactly what brand they are.


I will also be using the Solvent Flock 5910 (self-adhesive flock from Poli-Tape) I believe that Corakes uses this for rhinestone templates. http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t138064-5.html#post825986
Today I ordered a 19in X 15ft roll of it and hopefully it will be here next week.


Anyway, until I cut all of the “testing” templates here is an image of my “make-shift” flock work station. The inside of the tray measures 12.7" x 17.75". I did a really sloppy job, but it works!


----------



## ashamutt

Sorry all, I had to make a correction to my post above.

I accidentally listed product # 6 under the NO-TESTING pile.
oops!
I WILL be testing it however.
(it’s the SELF-ADHESIVE VELOUR PAPER from madisonartshop)

It has a wonderful sticky backing so I really hope it will cut nicely.

The only drawback I can see with this product is that it only comes in 8.5x11” sheets.


----------



## LittleDogy

I was told that vinyls with flock can work pretty good at first but dry up and become brittle after 2-3 months. Is this true? Anyone that far in yet? I don't want to re-cut the same template if it gets old.

Thank you for the info.


----------



## JoshEllsworth

Coming in way late on this...but I'm just curious, why does the flock need to be sticky for the template process? Just to hold in place while brushing in the stones? Are there any other reasons?


----------



## ashamutt

JoshEllsworth said:


> Coming in way late on this...but I'm just curious, why does the flock need to be sticky for the template process? Just to hold in place while brushing in the stones? Are there any other reasons?


 
Yes, to keep it from sliding around. lol

Some people were using heat-transfer-flock for rhinestone templates before the "sticky back" came along.
BUT, they were heat pressing it to a backer board.
(I tried thick card stock for my backer)
I am sure that there are some who still do this

Then Corakes – from Germany – started a thread about a self-adhesive-viscose-flock that she was using for rhinestone templates and loved!
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t111520.html

Come to find out she was using a product manufactured by Poly-Tape(a German company http://en.poli-flex.de/pages/company/company/location_de.html ) at least I think it is a German company – they have a few different locations)

The product she is using is called “SOLVENT-FLOCK PS 5910” http://en.poli-flex.de/pages/product/textile_graphics/flock.html
(already has the sticky back)

I called Poli-tape USA and they sent me 2 sheets of it.
And YES – it works GREAT!

There are only 2 companies that sell it over here in North America. 
Specialty Materials(USA) & JOTO(Canada)
Over here they only sell it in white – but Corakes can get it from her German distributor is lots of colors!


----------



## JoshEllsworth

ashamutt said:


> Yes, to keep it from sliding around. lol
> 
> Some people were using heat-transfer-flock for rhinestone templates before the "sticky back" came along.
> BUT, they were heat pressing it to a backer board.
> (I tried thick card stock for my backer)
> I am sure that there are some who still do this
> 
> Then Corakes – from Germany – started a thread about a self-adhesive-viscose-flock that she was using for rhinestone templates and loved!
> http://www.t-shirtforums.com/rhinestone-decoration/t111520.html
> 
> Come to find out she was using a product manufactured by Poly-Tape(a German company http://en.poli-flex.de/pages/company/company/location_de.html ) at least I think it is a German company – they have a few different locations)
> 
> The product she is using is called “SOLVENT-FLOCK PS 5910” http://en.poli-flex.de/pages/product/textile_graphics/flock.html
> (already has the sticky back)
> 
> I called Poli-tape USA and they sent me 2 sheets of it.
> And YES – it works GREAT!
> 
> There are only 2 companies that sell it over here in North America.
> Specialty Materials(USA) & JOTO(Canada)
> Over here they only sell it in white – but Corakes can get it from her German distributor is lots of colors!


Wow - you have your facts down Thanks so much. I was mainly curious as to why folks would stock the sticky flock rather than just heat transfer a standard flock to cardboard to create the template...


----------



## DivineBling

JoshEllsworth said:


> Coming in way late on this...but I'm just curious, why does the flock need to be sticky for the template process? Just to hold in place while brushing in the stones? Are there any other reasons?


One of the main advantages that Sticky Flock™ was invented for was to be able to use more than one template at a time.

In the photo I've attached, I have 3 separate templates to make a Peace Love Panthers design. I can swap out that paw for a bear paw, a soccer ball, etc. You will also notice that they are overlapping. That's because I was making this transfer for a narrow tee shirt and needed the design to be tight. Even with them overlapping like that, no stones get pushed up under the Sticky Flock™ where they overlap.

I also made some sweatshirts with these templates but I butted them up against each other so that they're more spread out.


----------



## ashamutt

DivineBling said:


> One of the main advantages that Sticky Flock™ was invented for was to be able to use more than one template at a time.
> 
> In the photo I've attached, I have 3 separate templates to make a Peace Love Panthers design. I can swap out that paw for a bear paw, a soccer ball, etc. You will also notice that they are overlapping. That's because I was making this transfer for a narrow tee shirt and needed the design to be tight.
> 
> I also made some sweatshirts with these templates but I butted them up against each other so that they're more spread out. That's the beauty of working with this material.


 


Great idea!!

Now I have one more use for my self made sticky backed flock! (and the self adhesive 5910 flock)


----------



## DivineBling

Here's the finished shirt. These photos were taken with my phone so they're not high quality or anything but I wanted to show someone what I had made for my daughter.


----------



## SickPuppy

SandyM114 said:


> I was looking at the EnduraTex flock material at sign warehouse and the description of it says it's self-adhesive.....would this eliminate the second wall vinyl in the process?


Best way to find out is ask them to send you a sample and just test it


----------



## decatur

I don't fully understand this process but the flock works. I just did my first rhinestone outline using flock template. I tried sandblast but gx24 didnt cut well. It was not Harco.


----------



## My Shirt Connect

decatur said:


> I don't fully understand this process but the flock works. I just did my first rhinestone outline using flock template. I tried sandblast but gx24 didnt cut well. It was not Harco.


Sticky Flock requires 160 grams to 250 grams of downward force depending on the variables. This is a good match with the Roland GX-24 since it's downward force goes up to 250 grams.


----------



## idelements

Bacon
Have you tested your velour paper from Madison Art yet? Just curious if yours worked. I bought some and tried it. My stones wouldn't fall into place easily. 

The material cut BEAUTIFULLY on my laser. The adhesive on the back was great. But for the life of me, I couldn't get the 10ss stones to drop in good. I don't know if it is due to the texture of the paper, my brush, or my technique. 

I was just curious if it worked for you?


----------



## SickPuppy

Another rhinestone flock process

LG LS2710M and LG LD3910M vinyl materials (matte finish) with the Siser StripFlock

The 2710M is an intermediate grade film while the 3910M is a premium grade film. 
Both vinyl products seem to have the same tack, same overall thickness, and perform the same for heat pressing and cutting.

Siser StripFlock using Hotronix heat press:

• 300F but you can go as low as 270F
• 8 seconds
• 4 pressure setting 

You may purchase supplies from USCutter (both Siser and LG products), I broke down the cost to create a 15” x 18” sheet of flock template material (similar to the 12” x 18” sold by others). This is based on buying the smallest rolls of Siser and LG (gets cheaper the larger rolls you purchase).

For a 15” x 18 “ sheet of flock template material using the 3910M, it costs $6.21 ($5.40 for the flock, $0.81 for the vinyl). For the same size sheet of flock template material using the 2710M, it costs $5.78 ($5.40 for the flock, $0.38 for the vinyl).


----------



## idelements

Interesting...as I tried the Siser flock in conjunction with some heat applied pressure sensitive adhesive from Twill USA and I couldn't get my stones to brush in well.


----------



## SickPuppy

Some forum users have expressed concern about heating vinyl to create rhinestone flock and a few have even received a PM warning of the hazards of releasing dioxins. This is part of a warning I received;

“Vinyl you buy for sign making all have Material Safety Data Sheets which most have an upper temperature of 150 degrees or so.... If people try to make Flock Template Materials at home by raising the temperature to 300 plus degrees with vinyl, they will be releasing dioxins. Sign vinyl is not meant for these types of temperatures. Bubbling vinyl and smoky rooms are a huge red flag....”


The truth is dioxins are released when any material is burned but a high level of dioxin is released when PVC is burned. Heating vinyl to 300 degrees for 8 seconds does not burn or bubble the vinyl. Have you ever watched a professional vehicle wrap crew work on a vehicle? They use heat guns and propane torches to heat and form the vinyl wrap to the vehicle. Most T-shirt vinyl is applied at temperatures well above 300 degrees. I apply Spectra Cut at 330F for 8-10 seconds. 


Have you ever purchased a new car and experienced that new car smell. If so you were exposed to dioxins. Do you recall reading a warning label advising against breathing the air inside your new car. I have yet to detect an odor when heatpressing vinyl at 300 degrees for 8 seconds 


LASER cutter users should be concerned about releasing dioxins if using vinyl material. Why, a LASER burns the hole in the material it does not cut the material using a blade. 

Please do your own research and if you don’t feel comfortable with any of the processes that I have described then purchase your flock from someone else.


----------



## scuba_steve2699

SickPuppy said:


> The truth is dioxins are released when any material is burned but a high level of dioxin is released when PVC is burned. Heating vinyl to 300 degrees for 8 seconds does not burn or bubble the vinyl. Have you ever watched a professional vehicle wrap crew work on a vehicle? They use heat guns and propane torches to heat and form the vinyl wrap to the vehicle. Most T-shirt vinyl is applied at temperatures well above 300 degrees. I apply Spectra Cut at 330F for 8-10 seconds.
> 
> LASER cutter users should be concerned about releasing dioxins if using vinyl material. Why, a LASER burns the hole in the material it does not cut the material using a blade.
> 
> Please do your own research and if you don’t feel comfortable with any of the processes that I have described then purchase your flock from someone else.


I think there is a distinct difference between a material designed to withstand concentrated heat for 8 seconds or more vs a sign vinyl that is not designed for that high of concentrated heat. I do vehicle wraps and the torch and heat gun that is used is not an 8 second application. If that were so I think I would have a fire on my hands!

The PVC consideration from my understanding (I was a chemist in the Navy Nuclear Power program) is more from the chlorine gas that is released from breakdown of the chloride in the material. For those that are designed to withstand the heat, there is no release of chlorides. For those that are not, there will be a release. Laser users will have this breakdown no matter what as the material is vaporized and there will be a release of chlorides. The biggest concern for laser users is due to the formation of chlorides on the surfaces in their laser engraver and the subsequent hydrogenation of them that will form HCL or more commonly known as hydrochloric acid which will cause damage and possible failure of the mechanical components in there. The chlorine gas that is emitted is of no immediate danger to the user due to its small amount but will build up in the laser. 

With all of that being said, I am also a realist and believe that I do not want to clean up any melted sign vinyl on my heat press but as you have said, it is really up to the end user. You have done some fantastic research and provided an alternative. I just do not think for me and my wife's shop that it is one we will use.

Thanks for all the great research and posts!


----------



## SickPuppy

scuba_steve2699 said:


> I am also a realist and believe that I do not want to clean up any melted sign vinyl on my heat press


I have used sign vinyl in my heat press at 300 degrees for 8 seconds. It does not burn, smoke, bubble, or outgas. Does it release dioxins if it does the amount would be minuscule.

As I described in another post you are exposed to a higher level of dioxins when the materials used in a new car outgas.

If you can't press flock to vinyl without burning or melting it then you should not attempt the procedure. Just keep on paying outragous prices for something you can make yourself.


----------



## SickPuppy

Some information about the release of dioxins. But please do your own research.

Dioxins are released into the air from combustion processes such as commercial, municipal or medical waste incineration, from burning fuels (e.g., wood, coal, oil), and burning of household trash. Chlorine bleaching of pulp and paper, certain types of chemical manufacturing and industrial processing can create low quantities of dioxin. Dioxins have also been detected at low concentrations in cigarette smoke, home-heating systems, and exhaust from cars. Burning of materials that contain chlorine, such as plastics, wood treated with pentachlorophenol (PCP), and pesticide-treated waste produce dioxins. Dioxins can also be formed during forest fires and volcanic eruptions.

For the general population most exposure to dioxins occurs through the diet, with over 95% of dioxin intake for a typical adult coming through intake of animal fats in fish, meat and dairy products. Small amounts of exposure occur from breathing contaminated air, from inadvertent ingestion of contaminated soil, and from absorption through the skin from contact with contaminated media (e.g., soil, water). The actual intake of dioxins for any one person will depend on a number of factors, including the amount and duration of exposure (e.g., dietary habits) and the concentration of dioxin in the contacted media (e.g., food, soil, water, air).

Just about anything you burn is going to release dioxins. The key word there is BURN. I would not recommend using a LASER to cut flock or vinyl as it does burn the material.


----------



## CELEBRATIONS

Have you had a chance to post pictures or video on how to create sticky flock material?


----------



## Rodney

CELEBRATIONS said:


> Have you had a chance to post pictures or video on how to create sticky flock material?


Just to clarify. Sticky Flock and the template described in this thread are 2 different things. We don't want to confuse the actual product with a similar flock template process.


----------



## DTFuqua

Rodney said:


> Just to clarify. Sticky Flock and the template described in this thread are 2 different things. We don't want to confuse the actual product with a similar flock template process.


Yea but we still want the videos!


----------



## clutter73

@Rodney - did you get any of my messages concerning I can't post threads? Just curious since I haven't got a reply yet and I'd really like to post in the future. Thanks!


----------



## Rodney

clutter73 said:


> @Rodney - did you get any of my messages concerning I can't post threads? Just curious since I haven't got a reply yet and I'd really like to post in the future. Thanks!


Just saw your message and took care of the issue


----------



## katruax

DTFuqua said:


> Yea but we still want the videos!


As a big thank you to all who participated and shared ideas... I made and posted a step by step video... Not the best video as it was shot on my iPhone but it will show you the entire process.

Just as a side note I did try Contact Paper and Regular Sign Vinyl and booth worked great... Of all the materials I tried though I like the Oracal 631 the best... Has a good tack to it... Not as much as the actual Sticky Flock but enough... 

Making Rhinestone Template Material from Flock - YouTube

I should also add that I do love the actual Sticky Flock... Great tuff... Just a little out of my budget plus I have 3 kids to keep busy so making the flock as needed is not really an issue.

Thank you again T-Shirt Forum!

Kevin


----------



## SaB

fantastic video! as you said is not best quality as is made with your phone but doeas what it says on the tin  thanks again for your effort!


----------



## cookie666

Thanks for the video, Kevin. I had a roll of Contact paper lying around and it worked fantastic! I just ironed it on with an iron at polyester setting for like 3 seconds. I'm sure that's a pretty low temp, and I couldn't do it for longer than 2-3 secs because the polyester t-shirt I covered it with was starting to melt! Even so, 3 seconds was way more than enough. Didn't even have to press down, the weight of the iron was enough. I tried to peel a corner of the vinyl off and the flock broke off with it - it was stuck on good.

This saves me a heck lot of money and it works soooo much better than sandblast material. That took me about an hour to make a design and the hotfix paper stuck to it like crazy and the stones moved a lot. This homemade flock took just minutes! I'm a convert!!

As for toxins, I once burned hotfix paper on the recommended settings. It melted into a pulp and stuck to the iron and the room filled with smoke. I don't know about dioxins, but any time you subject plastics to extreme temperatures, whether hot or cold, the plastic will degrade and release toxins. (This includes food containers and plastic wraps.) That is just the nature of plastic. I put my heatpress outdoors at the side porch. If you have a teflon covering on your heatpress, that's sure to release some pretty toxic fumes. You should work in a well-ventilated area for this sort of thing. I'm sure heating rhinestones to such temps will release some lead fumes as well.


----------



## princessC

Hi guys...check this out...its slightly thinner than sticky flock, but it works great as an alternative...works great on my cameo on blade no 6....have done a lot of templates on them.

Flocked Rhinestone Template material - Adhesive backed


----------



## DJCreations

katruax said:


> As a big thank you to all who participated and shared ideas... I made and posted a step by step video... Not the best video as it was shot on my iPhone but it will show you the entire process.
> 
> Just as a side note I did try Contact Paper and Regular Sign Vinyl and booth worked great... Of all the materials I tried though I like the Oracal 631 the best... Has a good tack to it... Not as much as the actual Sticky Flock but enough...
> 
> Making Rhinestone Template Material from Flock - YouTube
> 
> I should also add that I do love the actual Sticky Flock... Great tuff... Just a little out of my budget plus I have 3 kids to keep busy so making the flock as needed is not really an issue.
> 
> Thank you again T-Shirt Forum!
> 
> Kevin


I am new here, been lurking and trying to learn. I tried to view your video Kevin but it it says it is private, so I couldn't view it. Would have loved to.
I also read someone said they used contact paper....
Would that be that they ironed on the iron on flock to the contact paper? If so, then would I be right is assuming the contact paper now became the sticky part. Isn't contact paper glue pretty strong or is it re-positionable/re-applicable? Just trying to learn and keep my beginner costs down as best as possible. This forum is the best.
Thanks all

Thanks much...
Cookie


----------



## BooKooGuru

I tried to view Kevin's video and it is set to private. Is it still posted on YouTube? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ramona


----------



## Eview1

Try this one pretty informative homemade diy sticky flock rhinestones stencil material - YouTube


----------



## SaB

Yeah! Thats my video. I did it as i couldnt find the older one. So decided do it myself


----------



## HBSharon

Thanks Paul for uploading the video to Youtube. It sure made the process easier for me. I read all the posts on how to make inexpensive flock templates with sticky backing and even reading them could not get my head around the process... I guess I am getting old LOL. I am also curious about the new one you have on your youtube channel post about a month ago with another kind of sticky flock template material. Is this the expensive one we have here in the USA or a cheaper alternative and can I get it here now? Just curious. Thanks again, I really appreciate all the work you put in to help others and especially newbies like me. :
Sharon


----------



## SaB

Hi there. Its not same as sticky flock you have in US. it's good alternative material that i am still testing. not much time right now but i will post back once i know bit more.


----------

