# Need a DTG Printer that Does Dark Shirts



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm getting ridiculous prices for service. Can someone recommend the most inexpensive, high-quality, user friendly, low maintenence, best bag for the buck DTG printer that (if possible) prints GREAT quality with no issues, a work horse, does dark garment as well as light and if it does self heating. 

Please need help.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

All of these things that you are listing are in contradiction to each other. 

Inexpensive: You can find a used dtg machine on ebay, but are more then likely to have problems as you would have no training and no warranty.

High Quality: Anything from Kornit which runs over 100K to the new viper or HM1. Those to me are probably the most high quality. Remember though that is only my opinion, and since I have the HM1 I tend to like dtg machines. As far as the Kornit, some like them and some dont.

User Friendly: Doing dark shirts is not user friendly. It is a process that needs to be learned and perfected. 

Low Maintenance: Doing dark shirts is not low maintenance, not for the process of doing them and not for the machine.

Great Quality prints: They are all capable of high quality output if you learn the machine, and know what you are doing.

Self Heating? All machines have to have the prints cured, there is no self heating and curing machine out there, that I know of.

All of these things I listed above are the reason for the " Ridiculous prices"
When people spend the time and money and invest in this technology, they do not work for free.
Then need to get paid what is fair for the work that goes into the printing. These are not like screen printing where you can burn a screen, and then make 5000 shirts in high production, each shirt needs to be pretreated, loaded and cured separately . These machines are best for high color, high detail, low volume printing. Its really important to understand what the best fit for this machine is. If you are not comfortable with the price to outsource to a dtg printer, I highly doubt you are going to be happy with your cost of printing owning one, when you are looking for low price. To print a dark shirt full front image, you are looking at just in ink and pretreatment cost, not including the shirt between $3 to $4.50 per shirt.
That is just ink and pretreatment cost. Add that another $2 for the shirt and you are up to $5 to $6.50 per print. Hopefully this will help you understand the cost of doing dtg printing better.


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

sunnydayz said:


> All of these things that you are listing are in contradiction to each other. No they are not.
> 
> Inexpensive: You can find a used dtg machine on ebay, but are more then likely to have problems as you would have no training and no warranty.
> 
> ...


If you can do dark and can do a front and back print for $6.00 - you've just earned a 10,000 shirt contract.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Ummm that would not be happening  That would be the cost of only the products used to make those shirts. That is not including overhead such as machine cost, utilities, rent and all the other things it cost to run a dtg machine. That was my point, is that the cost once you add your overhead and all of your products accounts for those high prices you seem to think you are getting  Did you try contacting contractdtg.com as I referred to you?


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh and I missed one part of your post, that price was what it would cost me to do just a front print, not a front and back. For a front and back you would need to double that ink and pretreatment cost.


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I've got a quote for $5 front and back already.


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

What's your take on this machine????? DARK DTG PRINTER BLACK DIRECT TO GARMENT FAST T SHIRT - eBay (item 250487236975 end time Sep-22-09 17:29:49 PDT)


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Ok I looked at that printer and I can say I have never seen it before. I also read the description saying that it prints on dark shirts, but then when someone asked a question down at the bottom it says it does not print white ink. It appears to be one of the many Chinese dtg machines that you can find on ebay. I can say I have seen several buy them here and be very unhappy with their choice. If you do a search of the forums for Chinese dtg, you will see what I mean. I myself would never buy a machine like that one. It is not a name brand and chances are if it is out of the country, support would be non existent. 

I would say if you got a price for $5 per shirt front and back, that is a great deal. I do not think you would find a better price then that. The reason I told you in another thread to contact someone with a Kornit, is because the Kornit inks are cheaper plus the machine does the pretreatment as part of the printing process, therefore eliminating one step that is normally manual. With the Kornit they are able to print a bit cheaper then the smaller format machines.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

I was also just looking again at that printer and it only prints a standard letter size print, the 8 x 11. That is a very small print. My machine prints 13 x 22 inches just to give you an idea of a standard print size of even the small format dtg's


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm confused. You said you would print the front of a shirt between 3 and 4.50, then you decline. So, what's up?


----------



## dtgprinter (Mar 27, 2007)

sunnydayz said "To print a dark shirt full front image, you are looking at just in ink and pretreatment cost, not including the shirt between $3 to $4.50 per shirt.
"

he/she was referring to what his actual costs would be. on top of that he would have to add labor and overhead and profit to come up with a price for you. 

We run Kornit printers, but we would need more design details to calculate actual ink costs. Size, color, white space etc and would only confirm price when we had a chance to run the graphic through our rip to calculate ink usage.


----------



## Rodney (Nov 3, 2004)

opus said:


> I'm confused. You said you would print the front of a shirt between 3 and 4.50, then you decline. So, what's up?


Since we don't allow service requests in the forum threads, BobbieLee was posting general information on the *hard costs* of DTG printing from a machine owners point of view.

It's a bit confusing because your post seemed to both be asking about the machines themselves, which makes it seem like you're doing research on investing in a DTG machine and also asking for a referral for someone to print for you (which is a duplicate of your existing request in the correct area of the forum here and here)


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

Because, if I can't find a cost effective provider, I'm going to buy and do it myself. That's why.


----------



## abmcdan (Sep 14, 2007)

Even doing it yourself I don't see it being possible to print a full front and back print on black shirts for less than $6. Once you figure in ink, labor, pretreatment, machine cost, etc you will be getting pretty high cost.

Also figure in how long it would take you to do 10,000 shirts. I have 3 printers and that would be almost 2 months worth of production time.

Hope this helps,
Andy


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I found a vendor that will do lights for 2.80 and darks a little more. So, I think it's possible. I do like how you cater to ecommerce, but the 100 per month, the shipping charges of 4.50 plus a handling charge is too much. Your print prices are good for what you do, but the extras unfortunately killed it for me. Unless your flexible.

Bottom line, I can't spend more than 7.50 on a shirt - regardless of anything. Let me know.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Your best bet is too look at a different type of printing. It just seems to me that dtg is not a good fit for you. You will not find the low prices you are looking for, not with dtg. Maybe look at getting your designs printed, and then any personalization you do, use a cutter with vinyl. Depending on how many colors your designs have, doing full front and back, you will probably even be hard pressed to get screen printed that cheap. It just seems you do not have a realistic idea of what dtg is best for. I seriously would look into other print methods, namely screening, or plastitol transfers, and then you just ship them yourself. The more I read, it seems the more its like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, the method is just not going to fit the investment you want to make. Even doing them yourself, you will not find that price on dark garments full front and back, guaranteed .


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I've already found a vendor for 2.80 on whites and 4.50 on darks from here on the forum.


----------



## sunnydayz (Jun 22, 2007)

Well that is a great deal then  Good luck with your shirts and let us know how they come out


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I will. Having samples of my design sent.


----------



## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Those prices sound like one sided - price for printing only, not including the garment. Let us know what you find. The costs associated with printing a dark garment are generally between $2-4 per shirt even on the lower cost consumable machines like the Kornit.


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

I guess he feels a 2.50 mark-up is good enough for him. Times that by 5,000 shirts - I don't think over $12,000 is a bad profit margin.


----------



## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

At 10-12 shirts per hour that translates to $25-30 per hour to cover labor, cost of equipment and spoilage. Not a real strong business model, especially when you consider the equipment he would be running it on would be $100-200,000! Also, is his price based on 5000 at one time or 5000 over a period of 12 months at random intervals? If it is 5000 all at once then I would tend to agree that it is a bit more fair, he could knock it out in a few weeks. 

JMHO


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

It's over the course of 8 months. If he's happy with it, so am I.


----------



## Don-ColDesi (Oct 18, 2006)

Good stuff, I guess we won't worry about scheduling that demo you called in about yesterday! Let me know if you change gears. Good luck with your venture!


----------



## opus (Jul 27, 2009)

No, I'm interested in the demo.


----------

