# Thinking of trying it out, any advice



## OrangePeel (Jan 31, 2010)

I have been doing shirts with vinyl for awhile and thinking of trying the sublimation.

I don't have a lot of money to spend to get started, and really don't want to spend a lot of money at first.

Does anyone have experience using an Epson WF 30? 
is it good enough to get started?

What would you buy to start with?

Thanks


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

OrangePeel said:


> I have been doing shirts with vinyl for awhile and thinking of trying the sublimation.
> 
> I don't have a lot of money to spend to get started, and really don't want to spend a lot of money at first.
> 
> ...


WF30 only can print print 8 inches wide, not big enough for XLarge and bigger shirts IMO.

Thw WF1100 is the tabloid version of the same printer technology which I use. The inks are the same Up to 13 x 19.


You can catch these on sale around $130 bucks. If money is a problem the WF30 is cheaper though.


Michael


----------



## OrangePeel (Jan 31, 2010)

thanks mgparrish
The problem is I don't know how to take a printer and set it up for sublimation, I assume just but the correct cartridges and ink but that seems to easy. I am sure I could find the info

The WF 30 is already set up and ready to go, that's why I was thinking of that one

I do see your point about the smaller print area and will definitely take that into consideration before I buy anything


----------



## charles95405 (Feb 1, 2007)

None of the Epson printers used in sublimation come with sublimation inks...you have to buy and install yourself. The process is simple...but you do need the correct ICC profile so the prints are correct. The inks are pricey...about $80 for each of the five carts...that is $400 plus the printer..You do not need the two black and one each of C,Y, M I would suggest you look at the Ricoh 3300...used only CYMK..and uses gel sublimation ink. Advantages are carts are cheaper, less prone to clogging issues and a printer WITH a set of inks is about $450 from anyone of our vendors that handle the Ricoh...I also suggest you use Sublijet ink rather than Artainium...as the Sublijet comes with the ICC profile ready to set up. You might also check out DyeSub.org - An educational site for dye sublimation and digital transfer printing.


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

OrangePeel said:


> thanks mgparrish
> The problem is I don't know how to take a printer and set it up for sublimation, I assume just but the correct cartridges and ink but that seems to easy. I am sure I could find the info
> 
> The WF 30 is already set up and ready to go, that's why I was thinking of that one
> ...


*A long post but I figure this topic will come up again and again.*

If you are looking for Epson already setup (WF30 or WF1100) you can try Cobra Ink Systems. Cobra sells the printers with the CIS already installed, or you can buy refillable carts and use those.

The CIS system holds a lot more ink than do the carts.

If you choose refillable carts you can use the printer for both sublimation transfers and for pigment transfers. If you don't do a lot of sublimation, just only on occasion, this is a nice option. 

But if you do sublimation regularly a CIS is a better option. If you dedicate the printer to sublimation you can still on occasion switch in pigment carts if you need to do regular printing or do pigment heat transfers.

On Ricoh's you cannot easily and cheaply switch inks as the ink lines are very long and require the old inks to be pushed out before the change over can occur.

Once the CIS is installed it is easy to add inks, refillable cart filling is a little more involved, but not rocket science. If you buy with the CIS installed as far as the inks are concerned, it's pour and go for the inks.

Cobra also has prefilled (but refillable) carts of your ink of choice as well and supplies inks in bulk.

Pigment for regular tshirt transfers or "High Temp" which means sublimation.

Big secret ... Cobras's inks are *less than 1/5 the price* of any inks Sawgrass supplies for Epson desktop sublimation. 

Note: I have no affiliation with Cobra Ink Systems. I mention them as many here are using Cobra inks and the pre-installed CIS (WF1100) and it is very popular. If you read around the forum you will see. 

I use Artanium inks in my WF1100 but have to do so because I have many years of art files from existing customers that re-order that would require tweaking the art back and forth to get the same colors as before.

So I can't do a 100% change over on my inks, so I have to approach changing inks slowly over time. The Cobra option was not available when I started sublimating.

There are other vendors coming into the market now and more will be coming with much cheaper options of sublimation inks vs. Sawgrass, except for those using Ricoh printers, they are locked in to expensive Sawgrass inks and no signs or likelihood of any non-Sawgrass sublimation inks being available for the Ricoh printer.

You can also use Sawgrass branded inks or Artanium inks (also Sawgrass but a different formulation) for the WF1100 and WF30. The Art inks are available that work for the WF1100 and WF30 can be bought in bulk bottle and used in refillable carts or a 3rd party CIS. 

If you buy the Sawgrass brands they come in a bag (Quick Connnect) and Sawgrass has a propriety bulk ink system for the bags to hook into. With Artanium inks you have 2 choices:

1: Use a CIS bag system (EZ-Flow) similar to Sawgrass Quick Connnect.

2. Buy the Artanium inks and bottles and use in your own CIS or refillable carts.

In theory you could use the Sawgrass bag inks in your own CIS or refillable carts by draining and re-bottling the ink, but may be a bit of hassle. 

Sawgrass (Sublijet IQ) does not offer bottled inks for the WF1100 or WF30. The Artanium inks in bottles don't list the WF30 or the WF1100 as the supported printers in most of the sales literature, but trust me, they work just fine.

*Strongly do not recommend any prefilled Epson sublimation cartridge from Sawgrass as an option, cost per page is about $6 - $7 per page.*

If you decide to choose $awgrass inks, there are some differences between Sawgrass inks (SubliJetIQ) and Artainium inks.

If you buy Artanium in bulk bottles Sawgrass SubliJetIQ has a better black. 

If you buy the CIS bag system (EZ-Flow) for Artanium that black (Jet Black) is comparable to Sawgrass black (it probably _is_ a Sawgrass black). Bulk inks Art black is not as good a Sawgrass black. 

Sawgrass inks for Epson has more dot gain when transfering than Artanium inks do, this means sharper graphics for fine detail with Artanium.

Artanium has better fleshtones, but Sawgrass Power driver makes it easier to get spot colors preset.

Artanium is slightly cheaper than Sawgrass SubliJetIQ.

Artanium uses a profile, and Sawgrass offers a Power driver that has a profile built in and additional features in the Power driver (such as saving spot colors). The Power driver is is more like a cheap RIP software version. It makes it easier to print in more programs than just having the basic ICC/ICM profile that Artanium users have.

The setup of the specific profile for Artanium or the Sawgrass Power driver are both easy, no advantage to either in setup. 

Sawgrass offers software installers for both Artanium and Sawgrass SubliJetIQ options, I don't see a Sawgrass SubliJetIQ advantage there. In either ink option you will still need to go into your graphics application and configure the workspace settings for color management. (As with all sublimation inks no matter where you buy them).

On the Ricoh ...

I have a few issues with using a Ricoh but there are some benefits. So the benefits first.

Cost per page is supposed to be better than the desktop Epson printers. (This is comparing inks made by Sawgrass between the Ricoh and the Epson. Not non-Sawgrass inks that are available for the Epsons at a fraction of the cost.)

Most users are reporting the Ricoh has less banding and clogging issues than the Epsons they used before, and that you can go without printing a while longer leaving the printer idle longer. 

I have owned the WF1100 for about 1 1/2 years now and no issues. If I leave the printer idle for several days I just need to do a simple head clean. Epsons you should always print something and not let sit idle for weeks. 

The WF1100 has been the least problem Epson with banding or clogs that I have used for sublimation. My $2000 Epson 4880 with pigment inks I have more banding if it sits longer idle than the WF1100, even when I used using Epson's inks.

The Ricoh carts are not refillable but hold more ink than Epson carts do ... if you are using Epson carts and not a CIS that is. If you are transporting the printer for example events or shows, this makes the Ricoh easy to pack along vs an Epson with CIS.

Now the disadvantages ...

1. The smaller format Ricoh is about the same street price as the larger Epson WF1100.

2. The smaller Ricoh is twice the price of the Epson WF30.

3. The larger format Ricoh *is 6 times* the cost of a Epson WF1100 if you go by Epsons suggest retail price. If you get the Epson on sale it is even cheaper.

4. With Epsons you are are not locked in to expensive Sawgrass inks as you are with Ricoh. With Epson you can choose Sawgrass inks now or go with other sublimation inks.

5. You can buy an Epson WF1100 or WF30 at many retailers like Staples locally. This is a big factor if you don't have a backup printer and you are doing a immediate print job. Ricohs are not available at Staples. If yours fails you need to wait to get one shipped to you.

6. A single Ricoh cannot be a dual purpose printer. With Epson you can do sublimation or pigments and switch between those easily.

7. Since Ricohs require prefilled carts only available from Sawgrass it is best to have a set off additional carts ($$$) if the chip dies or if the ink runs out. 

With Epson a 2nd set of refillable carts is about 25 bucks so having a backup for either a CIS or refillable carts is cheap.

Using a small format Ricoh that I had with pigments and comparing speed I found no advantage vs. Epson. The print resolution on the Epson can be higher but the Ricoh was adequate. Both printers are fast (as far as ink jets go) and no real speed advantage either printer.

Michael


----------



## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

mgparrish said:


> *A long post but I figure this topic will come up again and again.*
> 
> If you choose refillable carts you can use the printer for both sublimation transfers and for pigment transfers. If you don't do a lot of sublimation, just only on occasion, this is a nice option.
> 
> ...


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

American logoZ said:


> mgparrish said:
> 
> 
> > *A long post but I figure this topic will come up again and again.*
> ...


----------



## American logoZ (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks. Now I hear that Artainium ink's days are numbered. Not sure about the other SG-for-Epson inks.... What is the shelf life for these inks?


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

American logoZ said:


> Thanks. Now I hear that Artainium ink's days are numbered. Not sure about the other SG-for-Epson inks.... What is the shelf life for these inks?


I wasn't aware of Artanium inks days being numbered, perhaps you have heard something I haven't haven't?

As to the shelf life, I''m not privy to how they determine that, they do have "use by" dates though. Usually when I buy those are at least 1 year away from expiration. Based on what I have read the Ricoh inks have a much shorter "window".


----------



## binki (Jul 16, 2006)

don't do it. It is too expensive for shirts..... Unless you get a large format printer (24" or greater). then the inks are 5% the cost of the sawgrass inks.


----------



## mgparrish (Jul 9, 2005)

binki said:


> don't do it. It is too expensive for shirts..... Unless you get a large format printer (24" or greater). then the inks are 5% the cost of the sawgrass inks.


I think you made a typo. Licensed inks offered by other parties are for > 42 inch printers.


----------

