# Print is rough to the touch



## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

Hi guys, I've picked up my first t-shirt order from a screen printer today and the quality of a print is not what I'd like it to be It's rough to the touch even though it's only thin letters in one color. I've seen the screen prints with several colors and they are really smooth and soft. Can anyone please explain what should be done is to achieve this kind of quality? Is it particular ink or methods? Thanks for your time.


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## neato (Mar 21, 2006)

What color ink? Can you post a pic?


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## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

neato said:


> What color ink? Can you post a pic?


Hi, the color is white. Do you mean the pic of design or the t-shirt itself? And thanks for answering


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## Jasonda (Aug 16, 2006)

ibt70 said:


> Do you mean the pic of design or the t-shirt itself?


I think he is talking about a picture of the printed shirt.


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## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

Here is the picture of a design, it's printed on a small onesies so it's easier to see it like this Hope someone knows what should I do? When you guys print does it have soft feeling? Sorry for stupid questions


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

More than likely is was printed correctly with a flash print flash. This builds up the ink deposit on the shirt tomake the ink bright and to minimize fibrelation or dye migration. Im sure your wanting the look and feel you see in the stores where it looks and feels like there is no ink on the shirt (Discharge printing) . If so there are not that many printers out there doing this type of printing. What I would suggest is talking with your printer to see if there is any alternative ways to print the design and have a softer feel to the print. He may be able to go to a higher mesh. You mmay need to meet him halfway with the ink not being as bright. Just talk with the printer and you shoud be able to get what you want and the printer be able to produce your order in a productive way.


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## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

Fluid said:


> More than likely is was printed correctly with a flash print flash. This builds up the ink deposit on the shirt tomake the ink bright and to minimize fibrelation or dye migration. Im sure your wanting the look and feel you see in the stores where it looks and feels like there is no ink on the shirt (Discharge printing) . If so there are not that many printers out there doing this type of printing. What I would suggest is talking with your printer to see if there is any alternative ways to print the design and have a softer feel to the print. He may be able to go to a higher mesh. You mmay need to meet him halfway with the ink not being as bright. Just talk with the printer and you shoud be able to get what you want and the printer be able to produce your order in a productive way.


 Thanks a lot, Richard! Yes, they printed it with with the flash. I've seen competitor's t-shirts with multicolor prints that are very soft despitr of many colors. That's what I wanted. I'll ask the print today about alternative ways... Can it also be because there equipment is obviously old? Thanks again


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## Fluid (Jun 20, 2005)

I wouldnt say its due to old equipment. Its the mesh used and the print flash print method.

You might suggest higher mesh like I said. Printing with a 196-230 with a print flash print will yeild less ink deposit than a 110-156 and should still be bright white. In order to get no feel on the shirt it will more than likely need to be discharge printing.

Good Luck


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## swannn32 (Sep 1, 2006)

It could also be (especially if printed manually) that the printer is pushing the ink too hard into the shirt - white ink can be quite thick and hard to print sometimes. 

What happens when they do this is the first layer of ink gets pushed too far into the fibers of the shirt which causes the fibers to show through and stand up (kind of like putting gel in your hair). Then they put it under the flash, which heats it up and freezes the fibers in the upright position (kind of like blow drying the gel in your hair). Then they print another layer of white over top to get the "bright white", but the fibers are already frozen so it won't matter how many layers of ink are printed over top, it will always feel like sandpaper.

The key, the first layer of ink should always be smooth. How do you make it smooth you ask . . . it will be too long to explain on here, but basically it is all in the technique. The angle of the squeegee, the amount of pressure, the screen mesh, the screen tension, and the off-contact (the distance between the screen and the shirt - should be 1/8 of an inch - before passing of the squeegee). A more experienced screen printer might be needed & not the $6.00 an hour high school kid.

It could also help if they added a little "curable reducer" to the white ink. Which will help it smooth out and not be so thick and sticky like peanut butter.

Sorry about the long post!


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## sajwal (Aug 16, 2006)

if you are using plastisol ink...you must either check the quality of ink you are using or try using matt fusing paper to heat press the impression....where as adding a little amount of silicon softner to the ink increases the soft touch of printing.


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## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

swannn32 said:


> It could also be (especially if printed manually) that the printer is pushing the ink too hard into the shirt - white ink can be quite thick and hard to print sometimes.
> 
> What happens when they do this is the first layer of ink gets pushed too far into the fibers of the shirt which causes the fibers to show through and stand up (kind of like putting gel in your hair). Then they put it under the flash, which heats it up and freezes the fibers in the upright position (kind of like blow drying the gel in your hair). Then they print another layer of white over top to get the "bright white", but the fibers are already frozen so it won't matter how many layers of ink are printed over top, it will always feel like sandpaper.
> 
> ...


Wow! Thanks for the input Crystal! I wish they would listen To all of my suggestion they say they are proffesionals You sould touch what they've done being proffesionals. And you wouldn't beleive (at least I wouldn't) that it's so hard to find a local printer with normal attitude and willingness to do the job. Majority just don't call you back Go figure... Thanks a lot one more time!


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## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

sajwal said:


> if you are using plastisol ink...you must either check the quality of ink you are using or try using matt fusing paper to heat press the impression....where as adding a little amount of silicon softner to the ink increases the soft touch of printing.


 Thanks for the help! I wish I could do this myself. You guys will teach me in no time I'll tell my printer that! thanks again


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## ASAP Printing (Oct 6, 2006)

Looks bright and crisp print, I give the job an A+. 

How many shirts did you get printed? Was the shirt for a fashion contest?


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## ibt70 (Oct 24, 2006)

ASAP Printing said:


> Looks bright and crisp print, I give the job an A+.
> 
> How many shirts did you get printed? Was the shirt for a fashion contest?


This is not the actual print, that's the design itself in JPEG. The print IS bright and crisp. The only problem I have: it's rough to the touch.
It was sample print around 24 pieces that's for my clothing line not the fashion contest


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## ASAP Printing (Oct 6, 2006)

You need to find a screenprinter then that does Water based ink printing. It leaves a very soft hand. What you're probably looking for.


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## swannn32 (Sep 1, 2006)

She is printing white onto black shirts - waterbased won't work there, unless she uses a discharge to get rid of the black dye.


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## brent (Nov 3, 2006)

swannn32 said:


> She is printing white onto black shirts - waterbased won't work there, unless she uses a discharge to get rid of the black dye.


I print white on black with waterbased ink often. A couple of layers of ink and it's a bright white, without being rough to the touch, but it definitely doesn't feel like they're no ink there.


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## swannn32 (Sep 1, 2006)

Oh, I should try that out. I just always assumed it wouldn't work very well. With plastisol ink it takes at least 2 passes. How many passes do you do with white waterbased till it looks white white?


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## Solmu (Aug 15, 2005)

swannn32 said:


> Oh, I should try that out. I just always assumed it wouldn't work very well.


It's a persistent myth. Waterbased can certainly be fiddlier (and plastisol is _more_ opaque), but it is an option. 



swannn32 said:


> With plastisol ink it takes at least 2 passes. How many passes do you do with white waterbased till it looks white white?


Two for white white, one if you don't mind it being a little patchy (fine for some things, not for others).


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## ASAP Printing (Oct 6, 2006)

It was assumed that the printer would discharge the fabric before printing. For waterbased that is.


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## dmarshall83 (Apr 3, 2007)

swannn32 said:


> The key, the first layer of ink should always be smooth. How do you make it smooth you ask . . . it will be too long to explain on here, but basically it is all in the technique. The angle of the squeegee, the amount of pressure, the screen mesh, the screen tension, and the off-contact (the distance between the screen and the shirt - should be 1/8 of an inch - before passing of the squeegee). A more experienced screen printer might be needed & not the $6.00 an hour high school kid.


I know you said that it would take a long time to explain how to achieve that great first coat but i was hoping you might. I have experimented with squeegee angle, pressure, and speed and I'm still havening that problem. I have messed with the off contact a little but I didn't know how far to go. Any other suggestions would be great.

Thanks ( I know this was an old thread so I hope you will still answer back)


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## swannn32 (Sep 1, 2006)

Try this . . . 
Make sure your squeegee is 70 durometer or a harder 80/90 durometer .The screen should “cleared” of all ink in the print area as you print. This usually will not happen with just one squeegee stroke when using thick inks. Do a flood stroke and then a print stroke. Now follow that with one or more dry strokes (print stroke without any flooding first) until you see all the ink has cleared the screen. Now flash if needed and the print the topcoat. The result should be a smooth print. 

flood stroke - A pull or push with a lot of ink that "floods" or covers the design in the screen without pushing the ink through.

print stroke - A normal pull or push at about 45 degrees with ink.

dry stroke - A print stroke with little or no ink on the design or squeegee. The object is to shear all the remaining ink out of the screen in the image area. You will actually see it when the image area clears of all ink.

Some other things to consider . . .

Make sure your print cools down after a flash before you overprint again. Otherwise the still-soft and heated ink on the shirt can be pulled up by the screen, causing peaks to form.

The sand texture could also be over curing (too hot) through the dryer. 

Another thing is screen tension... If your screen is not tight, even with your off contact set right, when you pull the ink with your squeegee, the middle of the screen still may be "sitting" in the ink. This could cause lifting of the ink. The screen should snap back away from the print as you pass it with the squeegee. If it's not, you may want to get a tighter screen or up your off-contact so the screen does not stay on the ink any longer than it has to. 

Also, you might want to invest in a temp. gun or strips so you know what your cure temps are. 

If you still can't figure it out . . . try a different brand of ink. The only way to figure it out is trial and error.

Good Luck!


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## dmarshall83 (Apr 3, 2007)

Crystal , first off thanks for all the info thus far.

I tried what you suggested and I'm still having problems with rough prints. First off I'm pulling up what seems like a lot of t shirt fibers when I print. I am using fairly thick ink and I keep playing around with squeegee pressure but nothing seems to help. 

So I guess that would be my first question how firm do you usually press?

Secondly I have the off contact at around 1/8 on an inch and the tension in these frames are good ( they are fairly new aluminum screens ) thats seems to be correct wouldn't you say?

When you flood the screen do you usually flood a large amount of ink or just enough to thinly coat the image area?

I guess I could try reducing the ink to help the flow but I don't want to loose a lot of opacity because I'm printing on black. I 'm sorry for the long post and so many questions but I'm new in the game and I'm trying to learn everything I can. Also you have put some good info out there so I was hoping for some more. I'm sure that most of this just takes practice to get it right but hopefully you can point me in the right direction.


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## rudi (Mar 7, 2007)

There is still one thing you can do to your shirts, Take a shirt and a decal or baking paper, lay the decal/baking paper onto the design (wax side facing the printed image)and iron with your iron .Even easier if you have an ironing press.You do have to watch the pressure you give the iron and the amount of time.


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## rudi (Mar 7, 2007)

In regards to printing white onto darks with waterbased inks, I have been doing it for a few years now, I still use plastisol but find w'based opaque inks just as good.Down here in Australia there is an ink called "Permaset supercover Inks" I am pretty sure they are in the states?Well worth a look.


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## dmarshall83 (Apr 3, 2007)

rudi said:


> There is still one thing you can do to your shirts, Take a shirt and a decal or baking paper, lay the decal/baking paper onto the design (wax side facing the printed image)and iron with your iron .Even easier if you have an ironing press.You do have to watch the pressure you give the iron and the amount of time.


 
Is this with plastisol ink or water base ink? I would think with that heating plastisol with an iron whold make it shiny.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Try reducing your white. I always reduce mine and it makes it much easier and gives a softer hand. If it's a good ink, 2 layers should be plenty opaque, even when reduced. I use Triangle Pheonix white and it's very opaque.


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## rudi (Mar 7, 2007)

yes with plastisol and it does tend to go a bit shinny but given the design is only really a keyline i don't think it would be very noticable.


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## deadlettuce (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm using sericol opaque white water based ink and im having this same problem of the ink being really rough. It's much more rough than any other colour,its also much heavier and thicker and the screen isn't snapping back off the shirt as i make a pull,the stuff is like glue! i have to almost peel the shirt of the screen. Its raised above the shirts by .5 cm,which should be enough right? I've thinned the ink down with water and it definitely handles better,but its still very rough. I'm not too bothered by it to switch to plastisol,but its still annoying. Its could be the high amount of pigment in the binder causing a different texture,but i dont know. 

Normal waterbased white is no use on black. its realy patchy and faint and it migrates when you do more than two pulls,which is neccessary to get a good print. Either stick with plastisol or get opaque white.


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## dmarshall83 (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm not sure if anyone is interested but..... I walked back through my process step by step and it seems that my off contact was too high. I was putting way too much ink down and it was so tacky that it was pulling up fibers. I lowered the off contact to the correct height and I really whipped up the ink to get rid of the false body and this seems to have really helped. Just thought if anyone new like me is reading this it might help them as well. Thanks again for everyones help. I really learn a lot every time I come on here and post.


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Great! Good to hear you figured it out.


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## Bill Hood (Apr 11, 2007)

Achieving a soft hand feel and a smooth surface are not that difficult once you know the technique. I have seen more than my share of very rough prints. And printing white ink on a black shirt is not something that should be tackled by an inexperienced printer without having first acquired some knowledge and experience.

The secret lies in having all your ducks in a row. There is an article on my site that explains how to print light on dark with one pass. This one pass is necessary but not the full story. The article goes into great detail to explain what is needed. For those that want the proverbial 'bumper sticker' here goes:

1. You need a mesh count with mesh openings that are three times the size of the largest particle size in the ink.

2. You need good tension levels that are at least that as suggested by the mesh manufacturer for the mesh being used.

3. In order to reach this mesh tension you will need to use a retensionable frame as rigid aluminum and wood will not stand up to the force of the tension.

4. You need to stir your ink before you start printing. This will render the ink to be quite a bit more creamy and easier to shear with the squeegee.

5. Do not add mineral spirits to the plastisol ink as it will cause the particles to swell and not pass readily through the mesh openings.

6. The off-contact must be set to the correct amount that will allow the mesh to 'pop' off of the print directly behind the squeegee as it moves across the image area.

7. The mesh openings must be 'filled' with ink during the 'fill stroke' (some mistakenly refer to this as the flood stroke). Begin with the squeegee at the rear of the screen with the ink on the side nearest you. If you are right handed, pick up the screen with your left hand and place your right hand on the center of the squeegee. Angle the squeegee toward you at a 35 degree angle and pull it toward you with enough pressure to fill the mesh openings and clean the top surface of the mesh.

8. When the squeegee has passed the open mesh area of the design, raise the squeegee and place it on the other side of the ink. Lower the screen onto the substrate and with a slow and deliberate stroke, without changing the angle, push the squeegee to the rear of the screen with just enough pressure to push the mesh down to the surface of the substrate and shear the ink from the surface of the mesh.

9. Plastisol ink has thixatropic values, which means that when you shear it from the surface of the stencil it will begin to flow. The ink must reach the shirt surface and the mesh must clear the ink prior to the ink flow coming to a stop. At this point, the ink will have flowed smoothly onto the shirt surface.

If your mesh is open enough, your emulsion thick enough and your technique is correct you should be able to print white ink with a single stroke. Your ink will be left on the surface of the shirt in a bright and opaque manner.

Hope this helps!


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## rusty (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks Bill. Good Info.


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